Braves

By keylargo

October 22, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Tried to warn you DOB

By David O'Brien

October 22, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

OK, everyone take note this new blog was posted at 8:32 p.m., well before Utley’s homer. I don’t want anyone thinking I made my prediction after he put the Phils up 2-0.

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

The heart says Rays in 7 but the brain is screaming phils in 6

By MGL

October 22, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Dob, thanks for squeezing in the new blog. It helps pass the time during th commercials.

By BravesFanChris24

October 22, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

LOL @ The National Anthem pick.

The more the Peavy trade talks happen, the more I get anxious and want it to happen. I think getting Peavy would definitely be step 1 of a busy off season for Wren. I just hope it gets done sooner than later.

By Aristotle

October 22, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

I was told that this scenario would not be entertained on any other Braves’ blog. The front office type that I discussed it with couldn’t, or wouldn’t explain why. I was just trying to understand the great disparity between the goals of the Braves at the Braves’ webpage and all the policies of the AJC that are diametrically opposed to the goals.

This very expressive, dedicated member became decreasingly communicative with every attempt of mine, to simply understand the enigmatic aspects of that sports website. All communication of this nature ceased when I suggested that the team change its name to Alice’s Republic; because it is an adventure in Wonderland, with all its colorful cast of characters there.

As I was checking out of the rabbit hole, I heard a faint voice from Hotel California, a cowering soul, mumbling what sounded like “Braves.” I didn’t catch the name of the captive free spirit; but the Red Queen did. And, you know, “Off with his head;” just like Lewis Carroll said. So, they are playing strictly by that surrealistic script in their “Theater of the Absurd.”

This hypothetical is for the sole sake of discussion at the AJC Braves/MIB blog. It wishes no harm to anyone. It must have been imagined by others, though I haven’t seen anything like it. But something similar must have occurred to many others.

This is not a wish, hope, or dream, or anything like that. It’s just to probe the thoughts of thinkers. And in the current state of Braves’ affairs, it seems that anything is thinkable, but the right thing. There seems to be a national aversion to the right thing, coupled with a natural inclination to the wrong things.

This hypothetical concerns that two MLB teams, between a pair of horses, one of which is two-faced. It may be better to call them thoroughly bad, than thoroughly bred. We don’t want to give thoroughbreds or any horse a bad name; even though horses and those two racers are full of the same. Makes you want to go north of the Mason-Dixon line, just to get away from the stench of those two beasts. If not, you must be part of the Mets, and in a quandary about where to flee for your life and liberty, with your property in tow and hopes of happiness all aglow.

Anyway, both horses, one white & one brown, move into the starting gate. There is a good crowd in attendance. The white horse is in considerably worse shape than the black horse; and is subject to expiring at any moment. Well, it does in the starting gate. Here one minute and gone the next. It’s possible, isn’t it? Life happens and so does death. And for sole sake of discussion, assume that old white horse had heart failure from too much primary race stress. (This is just for sake of discussion; with nothing but the very best of wishes to all animals. It’s just a harmless analogy used only for purposes of illustration. No member of the animal kingdom is in danger here.) Everyone wants to see a race every year; but there must be a protracted funeral procession first. And this extended time gives the owners of the brown horse opportunity to think, while the white horse fans attend to funeral duties.

Both owners have lengthy discussions during and after the funeral; and reach a tentative agreement that must be presented to the white horse fans prior to proceeding as agreed. The brown horse will run under the colors of the white horse against an old black mare running under the former colors of the brown horse. Put another way, the brown horse only changed running colors, nothing else.

In times past, this would have been outrageous; but times are a changin.’ And change is all anyone has, or wants, provided it’s only change of pace maintained in the wrong direction.

The young, galloping brown horse recently beat the old, loping black mare. So, the white horse fans with the new black horse have a proven winner! And all they ever cared about was winning. It didn’t matter how they did it; because they had a very big tent to please. The brown horse fans get to see their old black mare lope again, under their own colors; and regardless of which horse wins, they win. So, it’s a win-win situation for the brown horse fans. Will the white horse fans take the magnanimous offer and cheer for their new black horse on race day?

Do you think the Mets, Phillies, Nationals, Giants, Marlins, Yankees, Blue Jays, Cubs, Orioles, Pirates, Red Sox, etc. would cheer the Braves to victory? The correct, unqualified, unequivocal, answer is obvious, isn’t it? Its saliency slaps you in the face with a liberal dose of bone-chilling reality, in a way you’ll never forget.

They are all in it to win it, no matter what. Like I heard once, they can change their Collective Mind in midstream. But…there’s that notorious word again, “BUT!” Seems the Braves invented it: “We want Jake Peavy; but….” Substitute whatever front office spin you want for the next few words and you get the same phrase, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. So, there may be a slight problem with the otherwise obvious outcome of this scenario. It could be the deal breaker - the proverbial last straw on the ungracefully aged Pachyderm’s back.

Have you already guessed it and beat the agonizingly slow hunt-&-peck typing to the all too obvious punch line? If you are a big baseball fan, you knew the answer from the start. In fact, you recognized the scenario at first mention of the word. But, MLB novices need a reminding clue of the prominent, defining characteristic mentioned in the opening description of the race horses. The Braves faithful would notice it at first glance, while looking the “gift horse in the mouth.” The Braves have only one face; and the faithful always demanded more! What would you do?

What are they going to do? “What would the brilliant Schuerholz do?” Grow him a conservative face, just for the race!

That’s the hypothetical presented with no harm intended to any party animal, or anyone’s prospects hyper-sensitivities; and well wishes to all, but contra-revolutionaries.

With all due respect to those riding “a horse of a different color.”

By Brian

October 22, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

How many here think Victorino will do something dirty in this series?

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

I made my pick before I knew the score- i swear…

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!

Thanks especially for that part about McCann. 8 ) Gotta say, it’s easy to see why he’s only 22nd. All those guys in front are really good. Some of them I didn’t realize were that young…but I’m pretty bad at ages.

Yikes…yeah, we didn’t watch the whole Anthem…That was pretty bad…whoa…

One thing about the Backstreet Boys’ other songs: Like, they all have the same beat…

I knew the Blog was gonna blow up while we were gone. Sorry if anybody posted anything to me.

But hey, at the AT&T store, my brother and I got to use an iPhone for about 16 minutes! It was one of the displays.

GO RAYS!! BEAT THEM FILLIES!!

Good lord, Lorn…The Reaper hit a single…

By David O'Brien

October 22, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

Anyone who had any really insightful, brilliant and/or hilarious comments toward the end of the last blog might want to post them again, if you remember them. Because I didn’t see them, and me and others can’t call up the old blog now that it’s crashed.

By Efrim

October 22, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

Rays in 7

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Oh, by the way, folks: Nice job bringing down the previous blog with comment overload, for the second time in a week. You guys do know it’s the offseason, right?

I bet it was Random. Once he came back, the Blogs started to blow up.

; )

By Brian

October 22, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

BravesFanChris- I’m with ya! Hopefully when the WS is over they’ll snag Peavy, or sooner. I mean, the first thing I did when I walked in the door today was check out the blog for updates on Peavy! Kinda like a little kid around the Christmas tree.

By mitchie-san

October 22, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB That last one was killing my computer…..

By jrjags

October 22, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Phillies in six. Don’t know why. Th starting pitching is way in the Ray’s favor, especially if the Phils do send out Moyer. Just got a feeling about the Phils, playing real well lately.

By 22oz

October 22, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Can’t believe Victorino slid into homeplate and didn’t try to bowl over Navarro. Can you McFann?

By chick

October 22, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

another great blog. What about the possibility of Jermaine Dye coming to Atlanta to solve our power problem

By Steve from OH

October 22, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Fantastic song choice DOB.

Well, this is neither insightful nor hilarious (Rays in 6, btw), but Sandy Alderson made a few comments yesterday, some of which were about Peavy. Here’s the main one:

*The Peavy trade is not on the front burner. There were a couple clubs that tried to get a head start by starting before the playoffs ended. Those discussions have taken place but there has been no immediate progress. Alderson doesn’t think anything will happen in next two weeks. *

Maybe FW is balking at including top prospects after all? Maybe he is a sly dog? Maybe this is all pure speculation? I don’t know!

By mitchie-san

October 22, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

I made it to the Sharks game last night. Good game until they lost it in the ninth…Anyway, Kala Ka’aihue played the whole game and struck out once and had a few walks. I forgot my camera (even after charging the battery….) so no new videos this time around. Everytime I watch Kala play, one person comes to mind….Andres Gallaraga.

By BravesFanChris24

October 22, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

To be honest, along with me, a few people at my work who are Braves fans have been discussing this each day. As soon as I get up in the morning, I check it out before work and after I get home. It has me excited for this off season for Braves.

Also, I want it to happen sooner than later so we can get on with the other pitcher and consistent power OF bat :)

By Mr. J

October 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

So Chipper says he’s excited about the prospect of a big trade, yet the Braves can’t stand anymore Texeira fiascos. So which side of the fence is he on?

Myself, the more I read here on the blog and consider the arguments, the more I think the trade is not going to happen. And unless Towers gives in like Beane did and decides that he really, really needs the salary dump, I don’t think we should do the deal.

Go after Burnett or Lowe. See what else might turn up. Give Hanson a chance to show his stuff.

By keylargo

October 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Let’s say the offer to San Diego is Escobar, Schafer, and two more prospects not named Heyward or Hansen for Peavy and Greene.

If the Padres turn it down or say I’ll get back to you this is what I would do if I was Frank Wren. I would call the Florida Marlins and offer the same package for Hanley Ramirez. Don’t tell me the Marlins won’t trade him because they will trade anyone to trim payroll and get prospects. This would save the Marlins $5mm in salary (2009) and give them a starter at SS and 3 almost MLB ready players they can control for the next 4 - 5 years.

Yes, I have proposed this before, but this is a win/win trade for both teams. Hanley Ramirez would be a lead off man, that hit 34 HR’s, stole 31 bases, and hit .301. He is signed for 6 years @ $70mm.

It wouldn’t hurt anything and would put the pressure on the Padres to make the deal or would give us a true super star for at least 6 years.

By Braveheart

October 22, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

http://www.fairfield-echo.com/o/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/index.html

By MGL

October 22, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

One of the idiot Fox announcers commented that Carl Crawford was the longest tenured Ray. He was there back when they were called the Devil Rays. That was all the way back to last year!

Aristotle, could you please net out your comment to a single sentence so some of us less read bloggers can understand it?

By Mike

October 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

So I have read on MLBtraderumors.com that several MLB execs say that its likely the Braves will get Peavy and that the deal looks to be along the line of Hanson, Schafer, and either KJ or Escobar. Buster Olney feels that it will be Johnson. Soooo, considering that, lets look at what we lose to what we gain. I admit, at first I dont like seeing Hanson’s name there, but then I thought about it. In Schafer you lose a potential CF allstar…but…you have Gorkys Hernandez, whom some project to be more talented, just a year behind him, and Blanco or Anderson will fill in nicely till hes ready, so no major lose there. Next is KJ, a good, not great, sometimes inconsistent 2B that you could replace with Prado, a good, not great, 2B who has shown so far to be a good, not great hitter. So, no major lose or downgrade there. Which brings us to Hanson. A possible future ace pitcher. But you cant forget that we would be getting a current allstar pitcher, and for at least 4 years (maybe longer) thats cheap. I know, the health concern is an issue. But you will be hard pressed to find a good pitcher that hasnt or doesnt have health concerns. And overall Peavy hasnt missed much time, and according to info on MLBtraderumors.com, he has a clean bill of health. You always run the risk of health with a pitcher, anything could go wrong at any moment. In baseball, a GM has to take risks, they just try to make the least risky move as possible. We all know that we wouldnt commit the time or the money to land CC. We have the money, but good teams that dont have $150-$200 mill payrolls dont win and build solid teams for year after year by commiting such a large amount to one player. And lets face it after CC, whos the next best pitcher available…Peavy. So the Braves get an ace pitcher for 4 years cheap, they have more money to spend to get a Lowe/Garland/Wolf type, and a power LF, and we dont set the organization back for years with the lose of prospects. Like all trade deals for big players, there is always the unease of wondering what you lost to get it. Me…I’d take it!

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

MGL

The Fox guys also made a comment in pre game about how Crawford could recall the “lean years” when the Rays were bad…umm- that was also LAST YEAR (and the 9 preceeding it)

By J.L.

October 22, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

A little math again. Peavy 15.5 mil ,Greene if we have to take him in the deal 6.5 mil, thats 22mil . Take the 22 mil and go after c.c. or some other free agent pitcher,and don’t give up our prospects.

By James Munson

October 22, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, I was wondering about the draft this upcoming June. If we sign a type “A” free agent, do we lose our pick? I thought that if it were a top 10 pick we kept it.

By Deep Throat

October 22, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Myself, the more I read here on the blog and consider the arguments, the more I think the trade is not going to happen.

Huh? This sounds like you think blogger opinions can sway Frank Wren one way or another.

The Peavy trade needs to happen. As long as KJ or Escobar are not involved, it is only a step forward. Not just for 2009, but for years beyond that.

As for Tommy Hanson, I think the Braves’ scouts can tell Wren just how good he may be years down the line. But right now, the way people here act as if Hanson is “can’t miss” and a sure thing, the more I am reminded of Dan Meyer and Kyle Davies and Jose Capellan and Andy Marte, et all.

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

22oz—

Ah, man! I didn’t see that play! But yeah, I can’t believe he didn’t try something like that.

Aw, he slid this time, though? That was nice of him (she says in a sarcastic voice, still wondering why he didn’t slide on July 27…’Oh yeah,’ she remembers. ‘He was trying to jar the ball loose…’)

Brian How many here think Victorino will do something dirty in this series?

Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick me!

BRB…bases loaded…

By J.L.

October 22, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Just a thought, A C.C. & Mcann Battery.

By Brian

October 22, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Mike- Finally, someone with some sense! Couldn’t agree with you more. I take that back, there have been some people that have points and arguments.

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Hey, you dummy! Why don’t you try running to first base? BJ! And I thought you were supposed to be good…Good lord, Loren…

cabravesfan I made my pick before I knew the score- i swear…

Uh-huh. We “believe” you… ; )

Go Rays!! BEAT THEM FILLIES!!

…Pretty please?

Holy…another single for guess who. Look out, Navarro!

By John

October 22, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

National Anthem wasn’t so bad at all. Who’s the tall guy with the big voice? Trust me, I’ve heard a lot worse.

By N Nine

October 22, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

The more the Peavy trade talks happen, the more I get anxious and want it to happen

That is our problem, we have other tasks to complete and we want it done. The Padres should not recieve best offer yet. As i said before, rushing this major move will hurt us the most. There is not as much competition from others yet…

By BravesFanChris24

October 22, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Someone please steal. I want a TACO~!

By richbrave

October 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

PEAVY:

$$$$ and anybody on the forty-man except ESCO, CHIP, JJ, HUDSON, GONZALEZ and McCANN. Any farm-hands AFTER our top ten. Otherwise, let’s fish in a different lake.

By Run Heap Run!

October 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

My money is on the Phillies. Sorry Rays, you had a good run…but the Phillies are just too good.

waves to U Kno Who

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

McFann

I swear on my stalker-esque obsession with a certian catcher

I am pulling strongly for the Rays if it helps…the phils served their purpose and now I can go back the disliking them again:)

By jrjags

October 22, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

James Munson,

All picks in the first half of the draft are protected. If we sign a type A, I believe we would give up our #2.

By scottbravesfan

October 22, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

I got Tampa Bay in 6. I do think the Phillies will win game 1 though even before the game starter.

Also Dave, how many posts did we have on the last blog?

By richbrave

October 22, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

MGL:

Yours of 9:24 p.m. U-u-u-urah, good buddy.

By N Nine

October 22, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Someone please steal. I want a TACO~!

I’m parked next to taco bell’s drive thru will someone alert me on the pronto..yo quiero taco bell..or how bout them valcano ones…mmm tasty

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Hiya, Run Heap Run!!

I’m afraid you might be correct about the Fillies winning this thing…oh! The horror!!

No offense. ; )*

And I cann already hear Joe and Boog and Chip…mostly Chip:

“And here he is! The World Series M. V. P! The Flyin’ Hawaiian, Shane Victorino!”

I repeat: THE HORRR!!

N Nine—

I had posted a response to you on the last Blog right before we left the house—I think it was around 5 o’clock—don’t know if you got it.

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan—

I know you were serious, I was just givin’ you the business.

the phils served their purpose and now I can go back the disliking them again:)

LOL! Always a good idea!

my stalker-esque obsession with a certian catcher

Hmm…I think I might have that same “problem”…What do you wanna bet it’s with the same certain catcher?

By mitchie-san

October 22, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

The HORRR? GO wash your mouth out with soap!

By kirknga

October 22, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

J.L. , I agree with you. Peavy and Green could cost as much as Sabathia and Escobar at first, but Green is likely to see a salary increase after this season.

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

McFann

I hope its the same catcher…I’d hate to think you are obsessed with Corky Miller! (although Clint is kinda hot…)

By cabravesfan

October 22, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

McFann

and by the way, who ever said it was a “problem”?

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

mitchie-san The HORRR? GO wash your mouth out with soap!

Yeah, I meant “horrer“…

Gotta shutdown, unfortunately.

Oh! Happy days! The Reaper got out!

Night, all!

By Mr. J

October 22, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat,

That’s not what I was trying to say. The arguments on the blog are not going to sway FW or anyone else with the Braves. But these arguments (at least the better ones) are probably close to the ones involved in the Braves front office internal debate.

Hopefully, they ran through all these scenarios long before we did.

The point I was trying to make was more about what I think will happen, more than what should happen. Sorry I wasn’t clear.

By tlj

October 22, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

I know Peavy will not agree to a AL team but if was agreeable Would Tampa Bay trade David Price, BJ Upton and Reid Brignac for Jake Peavy?

You have a minor league pitcher (David Price) with huge upside and a probable top of the rotation pitcher - same as Hanson

A young everyday MLB player (BJ Upton)who just completed his first ML season. He had a good season but not great (just considering regular season) and is projected to be allstar down the road - same as Escobar

A young Minor league player almost ML ready (Reid Brignac)but had a little bit of a down season - same as Schafer.

The answer is NO, Tampa is not making the trade beacuse all of theses players all have high upside and it is not in their interest to make this trade.

Why does anyone expect the braves to make a similar trade. All 3 of the braves players have a huge upside and all project to be good ML players.

I can see using one of them as the center piece but not all 3 in the same deal.

By McFann Ô

October 22, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan I hope its the same catcher…I’d hate to think you are obsessed with Corky Miller!

LOL! Yeah, it’s the same guy for both of us! No, not a “problem” at all!

(although Clint is kinda hot…)

Eh…nya…

By clay

October 22, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

TACO!!!!!!

By BravesFanChris24

October 22, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Bartlett :)

Bartlett won everyone a free taco :)

By Steve from OH

October 22, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

tlj, that’s a close analogy, but not quite apples-to-oranges. David Price is way, way more valuable than Tommy Hanson, and Upton is probably more valuable than Escobar. I’d take Schafer over Brignac (personal preference), but still, Tampa’s three are of higher quality than our three.

But it’s an excellent observation, man. Lots to think about, and I think that that’s a really good analogy to what we’re giving up—even if those guys are better, it’s still their “top 3” compared to our “top 3.” They wouldn’t give up their 3, so why should we? Even if ours aren’t quite as good, they’re still our top 3 prospects/young players. Those are the guys you build around.

I agree that we should make ONE of them the centerpiece and let the Pads pick what second-tier prospects they want. If they don’t like it, tell ‘em to shove it and have fun losing 90 games again next season. They know as well as we do that they aren’t likely to improve much without importing players into their system.

By Taylor S

October 22, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

DOB- Please tell me there is no chance Wren sends Hannson, Schafer, and Escobar for Peavy and Green??????????

By Josh P.

October 22, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

I think one important aspect of the Peavy discussion that gets lost in the shuffle is the ascension of the man, the myth, the legend: Barry Axelrod. That’s a pretty brutal surname.

By brian

October 22, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

I still think the Braves should keep Hanson. He is what the Braves have been waiting for in a young pitcher. I would not include him for Peavy.

I would include Escobar if it came down to it. The attitude is a concern and if the rumors posted by DOB are true it will be hard to build around someone whose attitude worsens when things are down. If escobar lets us keep Hanson I would do it. Morton, Escobar, and Schafer for Peavy and Greene. Or else KJ, Schafer, and a pitcher not Hanson or Teheran. Short of that I would move on to another target.

By Braveheart

October 22, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s some advice for Braves’ GM Frank Wren - don’t make the same mistake John Schuerholz did five years ago when Adam Wainwright was traded.

5 years later, only 400 innings and only 30 runs allowed above average. Sorry, Shanks, Wainwright is hardly killing us thus far……. If Hanson only has 400 innings and 30 runs allowed better than average 5 years from now, this trade will not be a mistake…….

By Yars

October 22, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

I get the feeling KJ is good as gone, whether it be to the Padres, or another team. Cards & D’backs also looking for a 2B, I could be wrong, but I don’t think Prado is going to be handed the 2B job. What likely made KJ’s career in Atlanta a short one was his awful defense. Perhaps Lillibridge will stick around & get thrown in the 2B mix?

By A-ville Ranger

October 22, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

I called Philly in 6 just after the last out of the ALCS.I like the phils vets and particularly Utley.Does anybody else see Utley as the Phillies’ Paul O’Neill ? he just has that grit about him.

By Steve from OH

October 22, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Braveheart:

Agreed. Now the big question: do you do the KJ/Hanson/Schafer + prospects deal?

By MattyO

October 22, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

I would love to get Peavy , but not for Hanson, Schafer, and either Johnson or Escobar. That’s ridiculous and I think Wren knows it is. One of those guys should be the start. I wouldn’t even give them two of those guys. If they can’t work it out, so be it. Jake would be a perfect fit but not at such a high cost. I hope they can get something done without giving up too much. Go Bravos!

By David O'Brien

October 22, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Josh, until I read your 10:41 post I’d never really thought of that. Thanks, man. Thanks a damn lot.

By David O'Brien

October 22, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

Taylor: I can’t tell you there’s no chance.

By Brian

October 22, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Josh- I just hope that McFann is in bed after that comment! Her precious virgin ears don’t need that!

By jrjags

October 22, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

That should settle the MVP debate. How can you be an MVP if an opponent intentionally walks the hitter in front of you in the 9th inning of the World Series?

Can you ever see that happening to get to Pujols? Utley? No. It doesn’t matter if it sets up a double play. You wouldn’t ever want to put more runners on for those guys. Howard is not in the same class.

By uga-brave

October 22, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

the phils are 86-0 when leading after eight innings. that must make charlie manuel the best manager in baseball?

all kidding aside that statistic is amazing considering the bandbox they play 81 games in.

jason werth is turning into the player that many thought francoeur would be.

By Wayne (taco lover)

October 22, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Great news tonight!!! We all get a free taco on November 28th between the hours of 2 and 6 pm local time

Put it in your calendars folks!!!

Comeon Rays, time to stop Lidge’s streak.

By Wayne (taco lover)

October 22, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

It worked folks, Frank Wren has been reading the blog the past few days, and he says he sees the logic in my thought process on the Peavy trade.

He says he is going to offer a centerfielder, a shortstop, and a second baseman, in addition, he is sending a major league ready starter, and a couple of prospects:

Gregor Blanco Brent Lillibridge Martin Prado Jorge Campillo Diory Hernandez Dan Smith and Phil Stockman

Sounds like the Braves will get Peavy without giving up Tommy Boy, although the price is still extremely high for the Braves.

I convinced Frank that he MUST give up talent to get talent!

(your welcome!)

By mbatl

October 22, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I hear that next year, Porsche is planning to do a similar promotion.

btw, I don’t think walking Utley was a slap at Howard… not with one out. It was the only choice. Puts the double play in force, and would you rather face Utley and Howard, or Howard and Bruntlett? A no brainer, IMO.

Howard is in a funk, though. No doubt about it.

By Wayne

October 22, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

We might have to succumb and throw in Buddy Carlyle. I know this will be hard for some to take.

That’s what we used to call a “drop ball” that Lidge is throwing!

By Couch Tater

October 23, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

I wonder if the Phillies were concerned that Lidge had an arm motion that could lead to surgery?

By Chuck

October 23, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

How is Josh Hamilton not on that list of top 25 players under 30?! Sorry if somebody already brought that up, I haven’t read the whole blog. Could it be because of his past or something like that. What do you think DOB?

By Braveheart

October 23, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

You people want to win now, or do you want to keep throwing kids into the deep end of the pool and hope they swim? Personally, I’m sick of losing.

RammerJammer, I love it. Spoken like the true Crimson Tide fan you are. Win. Win it all. Win it all now. Sick of losing after one really bad season. Definitely a man that lives to chant “we just beat the hell out of you. rammer, jammer, yellow hammer, give ‘em hell, alabama!” Roll Tide, man, Roll Friggin’ Tide!

The shadow of the Big Three will always loom large over this franchise like the shadow of the Bear has loomed so large on our program ever since he retired and died. No way we will ever find three like Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine just like we’ll never find another Bear.

It would likely be a smallminded mistake to limit our search to our own prospects for the same reason we have at times hurt ourselves at Bama by acting like every coach has to have played for or coached with the Bear. Gotta be careful going outside the family though because we sometimes find ourselves dealing with clowns. From what Chipper is saying though, Peavy may be that cutthroat fella like Nick Saban that you sell your soul for in order to win and change the attitude. As it turned out, Tex was more of the weasel Dennis Franchione flavor.

By Jake C.

October 23, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

Why aren’t the Rays playing footage of Albert Pujols while Lidge trots out to the mound and warms up? I still think we are good for one classic Lidge blow up in this series, though he did look great tonight.

By Joe

October 23, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

The Braves need to cut ties with Jo-Jo Reyes.

By Taylor S

October 23, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Well folks, its going to be a very sad day if we trade Escobar, Hanson, and Schafer. To me this is far worse than the Tex trade. Even tho Peavy will be with us for 5 yaers, we will be trading 3 guys who could all have a major impact on this years team. With Tex most of the players were so far away it didn’t really hurt.

By A-ville Ranger

October 23, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

That’s the first I’ve seen about Escobar’s attitude.I saw the comments regarding ”bad clubhoude”etc but no word on the source.

It’s a shame the guy could be a huge asset on field.The way the team seemed to quit middle of the season was about more than a lack of talent so if he’s a downer,move him out.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

mbatl,

I hear what you’re saying about the double play and facing Howard and Bruntlett. I understand that strategy.

However, Howard is a guy a lot of people have been talking about as a possible MVP. I think instances like this prove he doesn’t deserve it. There are some hitters (Manny, Pujols, Utley, etc.) that are so good that you would never intentionally walk the man in front of them, even to set up a double play. Partly because you know there’s almost no chance of them hitting into one in that situation.

Howard is different. He’s good, don’t get me wrong. He leads MLB in home runs and RBIs over the last three years. But yet, teams aren’t scared enough of him to prevent them from walking someone to get to him instead of Utley. That’s more than being in a funk (coincidentally one that started just as the playoffs did).

He’s a really good power hitter. I just don’t think he belongs in the MVP discussion.

By mbatl

October 23, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

jrjags, I get what you’re saying. I thought it was sound strategy (1 run game with Lidge coming on to pitch), even if Pujols or Manny was coming up. But, believe me, I’m not trying to rekindle the Howard/MVP talk!

By Bobby's Cox

October 23, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

I didn’t get my World Series pick in before Game 1, but I still think the Rays take it. Their overall starting pitching is better.

The Phils may win 2 games, which very well may be both of Hamel’s starts, and it will allow Tampa to celebrate at home.

Rays in 6.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

jrjags, you have to understand that what happens in the postseason, good or bad, simply has no relevance to the voting for MVP or Cy Young or Rookie of the Year or Manager of the Year. None. It can’t, since the votes must be submitted before the first postseason game.

So Ryan Howard is a streaky hitter, no question. He was awful early in the regular season, then arguably the best or second-best (to Pujols) hitter in the league for most of the last three months of the season.

Now he’s in a terrible funk, which happens to streaky hitters (ask Kelly Johnson). During the season, this would be a two- or three-week slump, not uncommon for him (or for most other hitters, actually. Even great ones).

But if you took into account what players did in the postseason, well, Upton would be AL MVP with seven homers in the postseason, which is almost as many as he hit all season.

And Hamels would be a Cy Young frontrunner, since he’s 4-0 with a miniscule ERA in the postseason after a very good, but not overwhelming, regular season.

And Lou Piniella and even Joe Torre wouldn’t be in the Manager of the Year running, because you’d have to give it to Charlie Manuel.

And on and on.

But the postseason DOES NOT MATTER for purposes of BBWAA award voting. The votes must be cast before the first postseason game is even played. So your point about walking Utley to get to Howard now, which they’d have never done in the second half of the season, is completely irrelevent. Sorry, but it just is.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

mbatl,

MVP talk aside, I see what you’re saying about the strategy. I would use it a majority of the time (except when Pujols, Manny, Utley, etc. were up). Howard doesn’t qualify for me - unless he were facing the Braves; he kills us. I think we can both agree that even with a game one win, Howard has to step it up for the Phils to win. Their other starting pitchers aren’t good enough to hold TB to 3 runs every night.

By Bobby's Cox

October 23, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

i actually had a really good post at the end of last blog that is worth repeating.

So the Braves offer San Diego Hanson, Schaffer, and Escobar for Peavy and Green. They then give Peavy an MRI and have it examined by Dr. Andrews. The Braves pay Andrews 2.3 million to switch Peavy’s MRI with Hampton’s 2005 results. The Braves call the trade dead. In a month, Wren goes back to San Diego and says, “We’d still like to get Peavy for 2010. At that time, we’ll have a healthy Hudson and Peavy. We’ll also have Jurrjens with another year under his belt, as well as Hanson. We’ll take Peavy’s, and Green’s salary off your hands for Chuck James, Jo Jo Reyes, Redmond, and Lilibridge.” San Diego accepts. By “an act of God,” Peavy’s elbow heals. When San Diego sues, the Braves give Dr. Andrews and a 3rd party physician another million each, again wired into a Swiss bank account, to manipulate the MRI images. This will work so well, the Braves will pull the same trick with Tampa for David Price and James Shields, and carry a 7 man rotation in 2009.

Viola.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

DOB

I know that the postseason has no bearing on the voting. I know all of those votes are turned in before it starts. I was just pointing out that I thought it proved Howard was not in the same league as other hitters who are also candidates. I wasn’t saying that his game tonight had any bearing on his case for MVP because I know it doesn’t. I just thought it was especially telling of his weaknesses and was comparing him in that situation to the other hitters. Just my opinion.

By Catfish

October 23, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren is starting to look more like JS. JS raped the franchise with the disastrous trade for Tex, and now Wren wants to be a copycat by trading away top prospects that will probably be in the majors next year.

Well folks, I’ve got news for you. A trade for Peavy will not put the Braves in the playoffs, but it will set the franchise back further if top propsects are used.

A better choice would be to wait and see what the free agent market will serve up.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

jrjags, understood.

I’m sure you can see where that point might have been confusing because you said, “He’s a really good power hitter. I just don’t think he belongs in the MVP discussion.”

By Bobby's Cox

October 23, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

One comment about Hanson. Anyone who has the ability to strike out the rate of hitters he does at the minor league level, usually turns out to be pretty good at the major league level.

One thing i did post at the end of the last blog, was in reference to Shaun and Steve from OH. That was, if the Braves do trade Hanson, maybe Wren has a Japanese pitcher in mind like Yu Darvish. That would be impressive.

Since the Stros and Braves are the only 2 teams, Wren should play to the strength of Houston’s weak prospects, and to Peavy’s no-trade clause. I’m sure Wren is only offering a little more than what Houston can provide. Hopefully Hanson, Heyward, Schafer, Escobar, Gorkys, Medlin, Marek, Freeman aren’t in those proposals.

I’d be only willing to part with Medlin/Marek (not both), Freeman, Redmond, Johnson, Francouer, Chuck HR James, JoJo, Morton, Campillo, Blanco, Prado, Lilibridge. It’s not a lot, but I don’t think I’d be pretty excited to land Peavy if it costs us any of the “untouchables” Wren told us before the offseason.

By A. Downing

October 23, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Steve from OH Upbeat blog. What’s the low-down on Upton? I know Upton’s HR totals are up and down. But, I’m sure the Phillies were about to upchuck thinking about Upton hitting it downtown. Down the stretch, do you see Upton’s stock up or down?

I know you are no psychic, otherwise you’d be in an Upton Sinclair novel (lol) but, if your up to the assessment of Upton; I appreciate it. If not, I’m down with that.

By Frank Viola

October 23, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

Voilà!

Il est moi, Frank Viola!

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

DOB

Sorry about the confusion. I reread my post, and it was somewhat ambiguous. I didn’t clarify that I was just stating my opinion about the comparisons of the hitters and not in regard to the actual vote.

However, I am pulling for Howard to turn it around so that the NL can get a victory and shut up the national media about the AL. Great game tonight, glad the Phils pulled it out. Although the thought of having to continually face Cole Hamels over the next few years is not fun. Guy’s a stud.

A. Downing

Upton’s power was down this year because of a shoulder injury. He couldn’t take a full swing because it put too much stress on his shoulder. It’s had enough time to heal, and we’re seeing the results in the postseason.

Most scouts project him as a 30/30 guy with 40/40 potential. Average should be around .300. He’s a true 5 tool player - has great range (evidenced by his ability to play so shallow and still get to everything kind of like Andruw in his prime) and has an absolute cannon.

I’ve seen a lot of scouts predict him to be a perennial MVP candidate along with Longoria. Funny thing is that most scouts say his brother Justin will be better in a few years.

By Wayne

October 23, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

Bobbys Cox This Yu Darvish dude looks like a potential stud. Only problem with him is all that off the field stuff. You know, that underage smoking and getting your girl friend pregnant won’t cut it in the Braves dugout.

Next thing we’ll hear is that some of our players are hanging out at Hooters… uh wait a minute.

Let’s sign him!

By BA

October 23, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

Fourteen years for Axl Rose to put out a single- and all he can come up with is a cheesy Papa Roach-style anthem.

Could’ve been the american Rolling Stones. Wound up being 30 seconds to mars. The Slash/Duff/Weiland band was infinetly better.

Rays in seven.

By BosnianBaller

October 23, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

Do we have any noteable shortstops in the minors in case we trade escobar to SD? I would like renteria to come back and play here for the next year or two.

By Bobby's Cox

October 23, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this

Wayne:

There’s a politeness in the Japanese culture. Darvish is a little different, but he still talks polite. I doubt the getting the girlfriend pregnant and underage smoking thing wouldn’t be an issue in the clubhouse. This is America afterall.

Btw, didn’t another Brave have an affair and kids with another woman back in 1996. U Know Who I’m talking about, and he’s still on the team.

I found it interesting the Braves tried signing him a while back. If he doesn’t come to Atlanta it won’t be because of his lifestyle. It will be because he’s already stated he doesn’t want to play in America, and that another team would probably outbid for him at this point.

Anyways, back to Peavy, and hoping the deal isn’t going to be a combination of Hanson, Schafer, and Escobar/Johnson.

By BA

October 23, 2008 2:53 AM | Link to this

I concur, Bosnian Baller. Renteria was the best #2 hitter we have had in a long time. I don’t think they’d do it, though- if they move Escobar we’ll be stuck with Green. Championship teams need guys like Renteria and Kotsay- that type of work ethic is infectious.

By How do you spell Peavy?

October 23, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this

T.O.M.M.Y J.O.H.N.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 3:15 AM | Link to this

I keep hearing people talk about bringing back Renteria. I like Renteria. He was a good player for us. But it wasn’t that big of a loss. He had limited range at short, and his arm was below average. He’s getting older and regressed even further this year, batting only .270.

His career average is .290 which probably means his 2007 season was more of an anomaly, especially when you look at the three years before and year after.

I think it tells you a lot that the Tigers are not sold on him as a starter next year. His defense has really slipped, and his bat is not what they were expecting. How would trading for Renteria help the Braves.

I would rather have Greene if it came down to it. His average is lousy, but he has more power, plays much better defense, and could still improve or at least return to his career average. It’s not likely to hit his 2007 stats but much more possible than it is for Renteria to duplicate 2007.

By Tokyo Twins (Formerly Yokohama Daze)

October 23, 2008 5:19 AM | Link to this

Howdy from the land of the Rising Yen all! With newborn twins in the house, it’s been hard to post, but great seeing the blog as lively as ever.

Wayne and Bobby’s Cox, Yu Darvish is indeed the real deal, but he’s not available at this point, and given the continued existence of the posting system, will probably be far too expensive to go after, as he’ll garner as much interest as Matsuzaka almost certainly.

That said, Wren has been looking into the industrial league star, Tazawa, who has decided to negotiate with U.S. teams and forego being drafted over here. The Japanese League brass are thoroughly irritated, and so have instituted a rule by which any amateur going Tazawa’s route will be subject to a three year ban here, but I rather doubt Tazawa is overly concerned. The kid throws mid-90’s or better, and has excellent breaking stuff. He was predicted to be the top draft selection of a number of clubs (over here, multiple teams can draft the same player). I’d love to see Wren snag the kid, and he’ll be far less expensive than going after Darvish.

By fansince66

October 23, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this

That was the worst rendition of the National Anthem since Roseanne.

Rays win all games not started by Hamels.

Trade Yunel, he is talented but tempermental.

Please don’t go after Burrell, I would rather see KJ in left.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2009)

October 23, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this

I was amazed by the approach that Scott Kazmir took in his pitching strategy during the first inning. Nothing but fastballs with the occasional slider thrown into the mix.

Chase Utley made him pay. Cole Hamels was brilliant again. But, this WS is far from over.

The Braves have much work to do before they can regain the ability to compete in the N.L. East.

News flash, people. Edgar Renteria is a free agent. Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski said the team will decline shortstop Edgar Renteria’s $12MM option for 2009. They’ll pay the $3MM buyout instead.

By Bill

October 23, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this

Attention: Frank Wrenn, don’t make the same mistake that John Schuerholtz made. He wrecked the K.C. system and they are just now beginning to recover. J.S. started the Braves downfall, just to please Bobby Cox. The Braves organization is going nowhere until they are sold and Bobby Cox, Smoltz and Glavine ride off in the sunset. I’m their biggest fan but it’s time to move on. Do not wreck this farm system. If any trades are to be made, trade off current roster. If it takes trading Escobar, so be it. I know a prospect is just that but how are the Braves going to know what they can do if traded. It would not suprise me at all if Hanson wins more than Peavy. Who would have thought JJ would been this good. Don’t trade the top twenty prospects!!!!!

By Original Jon

October 23, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

Folks, folks, folks Look, I am in the group that most of you are in, and that’s the ‘No way in hell should we trade Tommy Hanson’ group, but, and I say this with all due respect, we don’t know if Tommy will ever pan out in the Majors. Yes he has dominating stuff in the Minors and the AFL, but so did Jo Jo Reyes, and everyone was clamoring for him to make it to the majors, and now that he finally made it up to the majors, he only seems to have a good game once in a while, he’s what we call a AAAA pitcher, too good for the Minors but doesnt quite make it in the bigs.

Now, I am not saying that we should compare the two, just giving an example of a prospect highly touted by the fans and when he finally gets to the majors and sucks, the fans want him gone. So yes, we dont know at the moment if Tommy Hanson will be dominant or not.

Scouting reports have said that he has good command, but he is mainly projected as a No.3 Starter. Most scouts saying his delivery is ‘very taxing’, that he also is a Max Effort guy like Peavy.

So why wait around for Hanson to become a Peavy, when we can get a Peavy now for someone who is a high prospect, but we dont know if he will ever amount to anything.

Just my opinion.

By Jeff R

October 23, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

“You want to be very careful you don’t stunt the growth of your minor league system by trading away all the good ones for a short-term fix.”

Amen, Chipper.

I agree with Chipper that acquiring Peavy isn’t the same as acquiring Tex. But Wren could still wind up giving the Padres too much in exchange for Peavy. I think Hanson falls into that category. The guy has crazy potential, and the Braves would control him for, what, at least six years without a big hit to their payroll?

I know potential isn’t the same as proven ability, but if the the Braves want to contend over time, management needs to have the patience to build from within. It’s not a novel idea; plenty of other teams around the league are doing it, and with solid results.

Peavy’s great for the right price - the right price isn’t a future staff ace.

By Jeff R

October 23, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Original Jon, if I were Wren, I’d still think twice before surrendering Hanson. The system has other talented pitchers who could make the deal work. Granted, some of those guys aren’t rated as highly as Hanson, but they’re not shlubs, either.

As to Reyes, he may or may not pan out. I think he’s the sort of guy who needed more seasoning in the minors before he ever saw the inside of a major league park. Some pitchers - and I think he may be one - mature later.

By Eware

October 23, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Is there any way we could steal Hamels from the Phillies? I’m not talking about a trade or anything, but just flat out taking the guy. If stealing second and third is okay, then maybe…

DOB, I’m on the fence about buying the new Ray LaMontagne or Jenny Lewis albums. Can only get one - which one should I get??? I love both artists.

By Original Jon

October 23, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Why dont we give Hanson a chance to pitch this year in the majors instead of adding him in a trade? Maybe to get Jake would could package 2 lower level prospects such as Rohrbough and Diamond, along with whatever else. But the reason I say this is because we gave Charlie Morton a chance this year and he wasnt even all that good in the minors, but we gave him a chance, so why not Hanson this year coming up? I mean, look at Morton’s numbers coming up through the minors, horrible ERA’s almost every year but last, and he made it. So why not Hanson??

By 82DAWG

October 23, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Best starting pitching possible, defense up the middle and let the hitting take care of itself. Build from within, fill the gaps with free agents and trades. That is the formula that made the Braves successful. Somewhere along the line that was forgotten. That is a shame.

By rlpmetro

October 23, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

DOB…you have fallen into the trap. Picking the Phillies in 7 isn’t the smartest decision. The Home team has a ridiculous record in Game 7’s over the last several years, so if the Phillies are going to win, it will have to be in 6 or less.

Personally, I see the Rays in 5 or 6. I like their SP 2-5 better than the Phillies. Shields takes the win tonight, and I believe Moyer gets shelled in Game 3. That might take the wind right out of the Phillies sails.

By Original Jon

October 23, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Jeff R You make good points about Hanson, and trust me, i dont want to get rid of him at all, but you know, you have to give a little to get something, but I would still hate it. As for Reyes, you may be right about him, but I am not holding my breathe. Anyone that tells Glavine and Smoltz to stop helping them because its affecting him in a negative way, wont do very good in my opinion.

By Jeff R

October 23, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

82Dawg, you’re right…

I think if Towers really wants Escobar as the centerpiece for a Peavy deal, then I would hope Wren says no to Hanson. Escobar will be an All-Star. Escobar and two talented but lesser pitching prospects seems about right. Plus, Towers would want to salary-dump Greene on the Braves. That should factor into Wren’s thinking, too.

By Dan

October 23, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Escobar or Hanson should be the centerpiece, not both.

Not that concerned about giving up Tommy for Jake. You are getting a proven ace pitcher under control for 4 years. Tommy may be that good, but it is a risk worth taking.

However, since we traded Elvis, there is not an heir apparent to Yunnel at SS. Even if Green plays this year, who will occupy the position next year? If they make this trade, in my opinion, it means that Yunnel has worn out his weclome in Atlanta.

By Dan

October 23, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

One more thing, have faith in the Braves front office, they have certainly earned it.

People moan about the Tex trade. They traded top prospects who were blocked at the major league level. Salty and Andrus are blocked by Heap and Yunnel. Neftali Feliz is the kid that really hurts in thsi deal, but we did get Tex for 2 years and the braves hoped to resign him.

They practically stole Hudson from Oakland. Who was the “prospect” in that trade, Dan Meyer? Think about the Renteria trade…..

Yes it would be nice to have Adam Wainright as well. By and large, the Braves have made great trades and we should trust their judgment.

By Josh P.

October 23, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

DOB @ 11:13 hahaha oohhh man, i always love starting my day off with a laugh. There’s a lot of things that could be said about the name Axelrod, and very few of them are appropriate for this blog.

By BT

October 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Jeff R,

I agree with you completely about Hanson. The vast majority of the bloggers think that we should do this trade now. It’s not a guaranteed World Series. Escobar is a future all star, we have some secondary pitching prospects but let’s don’t trade our #1 pitching prospect.

By tlj

October 23, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Just saw on MLTR where San Diego has decided to slow down the process involving trading Peavy. Towers said as many as 14 clubs have inquired about Peavy. He also said it is a good possibility that Peavy will not be traded.

MLTR also said Atlanta had made an offer of Hanson, Schafer and Escobar or Johnson. The article also aid San Diego had 3 scouts watch Hanson pitch in a recent AFL game and were impressed.

I would like to see Wrenn change his stragety and target one of the FA Lowe, Dempster, etc and let San Diego keep Peavy.

Let’s face it we finished 4 th without Peavy and if we make that trade we will probably 4 th with him or worse.

By macdaddy

October 23, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

David

On a completely unrelated note, is it a foregone conclusion that Will Ohman will be back next year? Is resigning him a priority for the front office and can you ballpark the deal he might get?

By BT

October 23, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Dan,

I am a little shaky on the Braves front office. If DOB came out and stated that they have learned their lesson about these stupid “rental player” trades and they definitely aren’t going to gut the farm system I would feel better.

By Dan

October 23, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Actually I am OK with that trade as long as it is Kelly. We have suitable 2B replacements.

If it is just those three players, you dont have the risk of including a number of lower level prospects who might come back to bite you in the A##. Neftali Feliz was one of those players.

By TommyP

October 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

[SD looks at Hanson ] (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/22/padres-braves-prospect-hanson/?padres)

Hope the link worked. (never tried that)

Haven’t heard anything about Tazawa in quite awhile but for the first time ever the Braves have been linked to a big time Japanese player. Read several times the Braves were scouting him hard this past season.

Still very interested in hearing whom the Braves are interested in filling that LF slot. I’ve read nothing about that.

I’m guessing the LF will come via a trade for a guy slightly under the radar.

By Billy

October 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Dan my intention is not to criticize, but rather to be accurate. Tex was a Brave for what amounted to as 1 full season. He played 1/3 of a season in 2007 when acquired in the trade from Texas and was traded after 2/3 of a season to LAA late in 2008. So, yes he played 2 seasons.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

tlj

Let’s face it we finished 4 th without Peavy and if we make that trade we will probably 4 th with him or worse.

Not sure how you can say that considering the World Series still isn’t over and the process of the offseason hasn’t taken place. What happens if they add Peavy, sign another starter and sign a power LF bat? That would certainly increase their chances, right?

I look back before last season when teams said the White Sox were going through far much trouble just to become a third place team because the Tigers and Indians were just too strong. Well, Chicago ended up winning the AL Central.

Not saying we have that we are going to be favorites to win the division if we add Peavy, another starter and a LF bat. But let’s just wait to a little bit longer. Who knows what FW has planned here.

By JSS

October 23, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

From Keith Law at ESPN:

Peavy has also benefited tremendously from his home environment. Petco Park is one of the toughest places in baseball in which to hit a home run, good news for pitchers like Peavy who don’t keep the ball on the ground. In fact, Peavy has allowed far more home runs (81) in his career on the road than he has at home (47), despite throwing 95 more innings at home. And that’s before we consider the soft competition that he’s faced, between his league and the weak offenses in his own division.

All of this puts speculation like that reported by Joel Sherman of the New York Post on Wednesday into some perspective:

The executives spoken to say they anticipate a Braves package being built around pitcher Tommy Hanson and outfielder Jordan Schafer, who both peaked at Double-A last year, plus a middle infielder, either shortstop Yunel Escobar or second baseman Kelly Johnson.

That package includes Atlanta’s top pitching prospect (Hanson), an established big-league middle infielder (Escobar or Johnson), and another of Atlanta’s top five prospects (Schafer). It’s completely out of line with the prices paid for other top-flight starters in the last two years, including the most directly comparable deal in Haren, where the A’s took bulk prospects over established major-league players. And that’s before we consider the questions about Peavy’s elbow.

If San Diego is looking for that much big-league and prospect value in return for Peavy, odds are he’ll still be a Padre at Christmas. The Padres have an opportunity to move quickly here as the lone seller before free agency brings a flood of high-end pitching, as Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Derek Lowe, Ryan Dempster, and Oliver Perez will all be available without requiring teams to give up any prospects at all. If the take from Sherman’s sources on the asking price is accurate, the Padres will have to lower their demands to get a deal done — and Padre fans should lower their expectations as well.

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Doggonit, Rays! Ya got that outta your system, didja?

Hey, I just thought of something: John Grove didn’t make the list of Top 25 players under age 30! That’s somewhat surprising, considering the hype around him.

By nolie

October 23, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

I know potential isn’t the same as proven ability, but if the the Braves want to contend over time, management needs to have the patience to build from within.Jeff

what makes you think that they don’t know that? Count up how many home-growns we have on the team and compare that to some other teams. They have always been doing a pretty good job building from within, especially considering a decade and a half of drafting late in the rounds.

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Saw the discussion on walking Utley to get to Howard. The Rays just know what they’re doing.

Why wouldn’t they walk Utley to get to Howard? Howard is a much easier out.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Coach, E-Rent is a type A free agent. Just something to think about. If we don’t trade KellyJ or Yunel, I’m not sure if there is a spot for him. He’ll probably want to go somehwere and start…

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

JSS, I think if the Braves include Hanson they shouldn’t include Schafer and Johnson or Escobar.

Maybe Hanson and Schafer or Hanson and one of the middle infielders, but not both.

If the Braves give up Hanson, I don’t think they should give up as much in the rest of the package. Maybe that doesn’t get the deal done but so be it.

By rammerjammer

October 23, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Been thinking more about Hanson, in light of Chipper’s insight on “bulldog” pitchers and our lack thereof.

I just might support Frank if he refuses to part with Hanson. From what I read here, Hanson has the makeup - unlike certain other Braves callups - to bring an attitude to the hill to go with his eye-popping stats.

Granted, Peavy has the same attitude and is established at this level. Just saying, I wouldn’t blame Frank if he balked at Hanson.

And I’d imagine that if Smoltz came over to Hanson and started talking baseball and attitude, Hanson would listen.

By Deep Throat

October 23, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

The Braves have McCann, Johnson, Escobar, Chipper Jones and Francoeur (sadly) as locks for everyday starting jobs next season if they’re not traded. That is pretty “home-grown”.

No one WANTS to trade Hanson. But to me and likely Frank Wren, 4-5 years of being is more valuable to this team and its chances of winning by 2013 than six seasons of Hanson are.

And let’s face facts: Hanson is no lock. Nothing is written in stone. The Braves haven’t developed any good pitchers in a while. I’d ship Hanson out for Peavy in less than a minute.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

JSS

You beat me to it bro. Here is a couple of earlier trades for frontline starters that Keith Law mentioned:

For a half-season of CC Sabathia, Cleveland got one top prospect (Matt LaPorta), an A-ball arm (Rob Bryson, who subsequently hurt his shoulder), a “AAAA” pitcher (Zach Jackson), and a player to be named who did not turn out to be a top prospect.

For three years of Dan Haren, signed cheaply, Oakland got one starter with big-league experience (Dana Eveland) and one big-league ready starter (Greg Smith), neither of whom has a high ceiling or is a top prospect. On the minor-league side, they got two top prospects in outfielder Carlos Gonzalez and left-hander Brett Anderson, and two lesser prospects in outfielder Aaron Cunningham (fringe starter or good fourth outfielder) and first baseman Chris Carter (big raw power and a ton of strikeouts, with defensive problems).

For one year of Johan Santana, the Twins got a good center-field prospect (Carlos Gomez), two back-end pitching prospects who were not major-league ready (Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey), and a 19-year-old pitcher with upside (Deolis Guerra, who instead found his downside this year).

For a year and a half of Rich Harden, who had a big injury history at the time of the deal, the A’s received a young big-league starter (Sean Gallagher), a bench player (Matt Murton), a fringe hitting prospect (Eric Patterson), and a very good catching prospect (Josh Donaldson, having a horrible year at the time).

The team acquiring Peavy would get something similar to what Arizona got financially in Haren — three years of control at below-market prices — but they’re not getting the same pitcher on the field. Peavy missed time this year with elbow trouble after notching a career high in innings in 2007. When he did pitch, his strikeout rate was down, his walk rate was up, and his home run rate was back up after an exceptionally low rate in 2007. His velocity was about normal, sitting 92-93 on the four-seamer, a few mph below that on the two-seamer, but his slider didn’t have the same bite. He uses the slider heavily, which isn’t good for the elbow, and without that as a primary weapon, he’s not going to be as effective.

Then JSS covers the rest of the article.

Makes you think, right?

By Nurlman

October 23, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Just a thought on Khalil Greene, since it looks like we might be “forced” to take him in the deal.

In 07 he hit 27 dingers. Four out of five years in the bigs his road SLG has been over .500, AVG around .280. His defense is quite good. His plate discipline has always been poor, and he had an atrocious 08, but it might be a case of buying low. I kind of like him. I really think he might be a nice player outside of Petco.

We don’t know if Lillibridge will ever hit. Smart money says he won’t, especially with that bat wrapped around his head.

I’d deal Escobar and take Greene off their hands.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I also love that Law titled the post “A reality check on Peavy rumors”

Good. I honestly thought to myself that we would have to give up the same package that Arizona gave up for Haren…………

By kdbanks

October 23, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Someone want to explain this headline from CNN.com this morning:

“Full name, DOB needed to book airline flights”

Travel’s not hard enough, now we need a baseball writer with us to fly? Geez.

By TommyP

October 23, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me what I need to change in my first attempt above to link an article?

Hope this doesn’t strike a chord with people…..but…..this is the first World Series in awhile where there have been several African-American players involved.

Might increase participation in the inner-city programs that Selig has instituted.

By semiballcoach

October 23, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

DOB—you need to ask for roytalties for writing the blogs

By rammerjammer

October 23, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Re: Your 12:07 post. You got it! I just want to win now AND later. Nuthin’ wrong with that.

I’m actually not a big Tide fan, but I married into the mob - so to speak - so I’m part of the culture.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Deep Throat, I have no problems with the Braves trading Hanson in a deal for Peavy. I just think they should be leery of giving up three potentially above-average major leaguers. Unless of course Wren has some other big moves up his sleeve that could make the Braves World Series contenders next year.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

So…according to that KLaw article, we should be looking to give up…Reyes, Redmond/Parr, Gorkys, Rohrbough, and Cody Johnson? Those are the guys in our system that would match Klaw’s descriptions, to me. Can’t see that going down without a riot in the gaslamp district…

By Big Easy

October 23, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Eh, well, this is a little late for a World Series prediction, but it hasn’t changed since last week when I made the same prediction:

Rays in 6

~E~

By JSS

October 23, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

I think it would be difficult to include Hanson in any deal. The guy has improved a lot this past year and is dominating in the AFL. As DOB’s story tells it, he tossed 4 no hit innings with 9 strikeouts in his last outing. I’d like to pair Hanson with a healthy Morton and see if those young guys can grow into mainstays in the rotation.

With that said, I’d include Morton in the deal if San Diego was interested. We didn’t see Morton at his best last year, but it was a bit discouraging to hear his quotes after games last season. All of the self-doubt and fear of failure may hold him back from reaching his potential.

The Braves have to go into this with Hanson, Heyward and Teheran as untouchables. Atlanta needs a whole lot more than Jake Peavy to become competitive again, and trading talented young pitching is not the way to build a contender….

By Dadgum

October 23, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

We all know the name of this game is pitching and defense wins championships. When it comes to pitching the Braves need quality starts that get us into the 7th inning thereby not burning up the bullpen arms at the all-star break.

Having said that my money says that Peavy will be that #1 starter and that Hanson will not bring us those innings initially. He simply can’t go toe to toe with experienced hitters in the bigs just yet. You simply can’t pass up a proven starter now (of Peavy’s ilk) to hold onto a future hope. Hey we would have Peavy for 4 years (assuming no restructure of contract). I would take Peavy for 4 years over anything Hanson may become. That is the nature of the MLB landscape these days. The Braves in 4 years time may develop someone even better than Hanson.

Let’s not get hung up on what we might be losing (assuming we will have to give up Hanson etc.) let’s concentrate on making the 25 players we have the best we can make it to get competitive immediately. You can’t even fathom the enormous talent of the young kids in this country. The Braves will always be getting great talent to develop. I won’t be crying over losing a Tommy Hanson trust me. He is good and will most likely be a tremendous major league pitcher BUT the Braves would look like idiots passing up Jake Peavy to keep Hanson.

Forget any talk about any injury bugs. That doesn’t hold any water. Any injury can happen to any player especially pitchers. Who’s to say that if we keep Hanson that he isn’t hit by a cab crossing a street in Atlanta.

One last thought….regardless of who we have trotting out there opening day as the starter, unless the Braves get better defensively in the middle infield, you won’t get the innings out of your top starters you need. That is why I really believe that you simply can’t keep Kelly Johnson at 2nd base. Great guy I assume and big bat (at times) but 2nd base is mostly about overall defensive ability (not necessarily based on errors). I really believe KJ will be part of the Hanson trade, when and if it happens, along with a lower level pitching prospect.

Just as last night was a must win for the Phillies tonight is a must win for Tampa Bay. Can’t see this Tampa team coming out of an 0-2 hole.

Rock on……….

By cricket

October 23, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Rays in 7, but barely. I live in tampa and all these neo-fans (I am one, Rays are now my favorite AL team) seem to completely underestimate phillies since they think NL absolutely sucks. While that opinion is understandable considering the recent history between AL and NL, this series still comes down to the matchups between two teams, and not two leagues. And these 2 teams do match up pretty evenly. Rays better start taking leads by 7th inning because there won’t be many comebacks after that.

By Tommy P.

October 23, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, based on your Tide/Braves analogies, would that make Jeff Franceour the Mike Shula of the Braves organization?

By timmy

October 23, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

DOB You’ve been called out by J.C. Bradbury. Here you can read it yourself. Here is the link:[I keep reading that one reason that teams want to acquire Jake Peavy is because he makes only $15 million a year. David O’Brien is the latest offender.

Among other pitchers available, Peavy is the most accomplished and would have a lower salary than comparable free agents.]

Do you think this warrants a response from you?

By Dru

October 23, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Just wanted to say that Jake Peavy is a machine. He’s exactly the type of pitcher that the Braves need. Four of the last five years, he’s had an ERA under 3. His career ERA is 3.25 over 6 1/2 years. Add to that he’s consistently near the top of the majors in strikeouts, which reflects his attitude on the mound. As Chipper put it, he’s the kind of guy that attacks the hitter.

Also wanted to comment on what someone said in the last blog. The idea of can’t-miss prospects. Someone tried to reason that the Padres would never have traded Peavy when he was a prospect because they knew what he was. Peavy came up with a group of prospects, and wasn’t even supposed to be the best of them until he hit the majors.

By rammerjammer

October 23, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Extending Law’s discussion, the Braves should offer Reyes, Morton, Schafer, Flowers and two other prospects from an agreed-upon group that doesn’t include Heyward, Hanson, Freeman or Gorkys.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I think it is basically saying “don’t gut the farm for Jake Peavy”. And he seems to think the guy is going to get hurt. I took it as, keep Heyward and Hanson out of discussions. Offer one of Locke, Flowers, Schafer, Freeman plus Escobar and Johnson and leave it at that. SD isn’t in a position like Oakland was. I don’t think they will take a BULK prospects package. To be honest man, this is the type of article I didn’t want to see. Already heard Callis critisize the Braves if they make this deal, now Keith Law. Yes, I know. “What the hell do they know?” “They have no idea what they are talking about.” I understand if that is what people’s reaction are when they see this stuff.

Like Shaun has said, if Frank Wren has something else up his sleeve to make this team a WS contender, by all means, make the trade. If not, what’s wrong with keeping all of our prospects(and it’s a damn good system) and spending parts of our 40 million of free agents?

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Part of that post at 10:32 was basically what he said in a response to a question I had asked him, just didn’t quote it out. I think some people are taking offense to me posting the exact articles or quotes these guys have because it is “Insider” info. So I’ll try to watch my step from now on. Anyways…..

By cricket

October 23, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

timmy

No wonder our economy is in bad shape with people like J. C. Bradnury teaching economics in colleges. Here’s his take on DOB’s comment -

I keep reading that one reason that teams want to acquire Jake Peavy is because he makes only $15 million a year. David O’Brien is the latest offender.

Among other pitchers available, Peavy is the most accomplished and would have a lower salary than comparable free agents.

The logic seems simple. An ace like CC Sabathia will get $20+ million;therefore, Peavy’s $15 million contract represents a big savings over the free-agent alternative. (Peavy actually isn’t quite as valuable as Sabathia, but let’s just assume they are for simplicity.)

But the $5 million difference in salaries does not represent savings to the acquiring club. Peavy and Sabathia are assets who represent future income streams to their employers. Teams ought to be willing to pay salaries equal to the discounted present value of these revenue streams. As a free agent, Sabathia will capture all the returns of his expected value, and so would Peavy if he could be signed as a free agent. Instead, the Padres own the right to an annual income stream of greater than $15 million which they gladly lease for $15 million a season for the next four years. The fact that Peavy only gets $15 million doesn’t mean that’s all he costs. The Padres must be compensated for that additional lost income stream—a price that his new team will pay.

So, according to his theory, padres will be compensated for the lost income stream by the team acquiring Peavy and this makes them winners. Why? In this simplistic theory, if they are compensated equitably for their loss, won’t that just make them even? This sounds like no-profit no-loss for padres.

Now the other party of the trade will pay Peavy 15 mil. when they would get returns worth 17 mil. (according to Bradbury in one of his earlier posts). Again in this wonderfully simple theory, the team will be effecitvely paying that additional income stream to padres as a compensation, which would make this whole transaction a zero sum game for both the teams. Then what the heck is his problem??

The only team who benefits from Peavy holding a good contract is the Padres, and this is likely a big factor in the team’s decision to move him. They hold a valuable asset and plan to cash it in.*

By Wayne-o

October 23, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

I don’t see why people are complaining about giving up Hanson for Peavy? We would get a proven #1 for a maybe #1 down the road….after all does anyone remember what we gave up to get Maddux? That one worked out.

By nolie

October 23, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

I think some people are taking offense to me posting the exact articles or quotes these guys have because it is “Insider” info. So I’ll try to watch my step from now on. Anyways…..Efrim

a couple of officious busy-bodies. pat them no mind, everybody on sports blogs does it some including me. just source it in type

By cricket

October 23, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Sorry about the re-post, formatting was messed up in the earlier post.

timmy

No wonder our economy is in bad shape with people like J. C. Bradnury teaching economics in colleges. Here’s his take on DOB’s comment -

I keep reading that one reason that teams want to acquire Jake Peavy is because he makes only $15 million a year. David O’Brien is the latest offender

Among other pitchers available, Peavy is the most accomplished and would have a lower salary than comparable free agents.

The logic seems simple. An ace like CC Sabathia will get $20+ million;therefore, Peavy’s $15 million contract represents a big savings over the free-agent alternative. (Peavy actually isn’t quite as valuable as Sabathia, but let’s just assume they are for simplicity.)

But the $5 million difference in salaries does not represent savings to the acquiring club. Peavy and Sabathia are assets who represent future income streams to their employers. Teams ought to be willing to pay salaries equal to the discounted present value of these revenue streams. As a free agent, Sabathia will capture all the returns of his expected value, and so would Peavy if he could be signed as a free agent. Instead, the Padres own the right to an annual income stream of greater than $15 million which they gladly lease for $15 million a season for the next four years. The fact that Peavy only gets $15 million doesn’t mean that’s all he costs. The Padres must be compensated for that additional lost income stream—a price that his new team will pay.

The only team who benefits from Peavy holding a good contract is the Padres, and this is likely a big factor in the team’s decision to move him. They hold a valuable asset and plan to cash it in.

So, according to his theory, padres will be compensated for the lost income stream by the team acquiring Peavy and this makes them winners. Why? In this simplistic theory, if they are compensated equitably for their loss, won’t that just make them even? This sounds like no-profit no-loss for padres.

Now the other party of the trade will pay Peavy 15 mil. when they would get returns worth 17 mil. (according to Bradbury in one of his earlier posts). Again in this wonderfully simple theory, the team will be effecitvely paying that additional income stream to padres as a compensation, which would make this whole transaction a zero sum game for both the teams. Then what the heck is his problem??

By Shawn B

October 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Wayne-o…………the Braves didn’t give up anything to get Maddux….he was a free agent

By Deep Throat

October 23, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

after all does anyone remember what we gave up to get Maddux?

He signed a 5YR/28M free agent contract with the Braves.

But yeah, I’d give up Hanson for Peavy. Schafer too. It’s the two incumbent middle infielders (Escobar and Johnson) that I don’t WANT to give up.

By Cherokee

October 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

.after all does anyone remember what we gave up to get Maddux? That one worked out.Wayne-o

They probably don’t since we didn’t give up anybody. It was a FA signing.

By ugacpa02

October 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Exactly, the typical big trade is a zero sum game. Most teams are not able to “rip off” the other team so approximately equal value is given by each team.

I think it’s completely wrong to assume that the package that makes this “even” is KJ, TH, and JS, but let’s assume for a second that’s what it takes:

There’s alot to be said for passing on any form of trading 3 guys off our projected 09 roster for 1 guy. If 1 out of 3 get hurt we’d survive, however if Peavey get’s hurt we’re sunk. You want to build a full deep roster and trading more than 1 of our big league ready potential all-star players could definitley come back to bite us.

If we can’t make this work on terms that don’t cripple our 09 team or our future, we should pass and overpay in dollars for AJ or CC or BS etc. Those guys only cost dollars, they don’t cost prospects too.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 23, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

For everyone here it seems that giving up Hanson if a foregone conclusion. Why not work a deal around someone else and keep Hanson? If he has the same make-up as Peavy, why not try to have BOTH of them? Hanson can learn from Peavy AND Smoltz on pitching in the bigs. From the sounds of it, he has that power arm that wins in the playoffs.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Doesn’t the question on Hanson have to come down to how soon do the Braves think he’ll be a top of the rotation guy? If the answer is 3-4 years, then Peavy is probably a better option. If he takes the Cole Hamels track and becomes an ace in year 2, that would obviously be more valuable to the Braves.

Consider Hamels:

Year 1: 9-8, 4.08, 132.2 IP, 145K

Year 2: 15-5, 3.39, 183.3 IP, 177K

Year 3: 14-10, 3.09, 227.3 IP, 196K

The same is true for a number of other aces: Hudson, Oswalt, Sabathia, Verlander. They were all really good by either their rookie season or by year two.

The question for the Braves is how good do their scouts think Hanson is and will be, and how soon. If they think he could do what Hamels did, then I don’t think Peavy is worth the cost or payroll increase over what Hanson would be owed let alone the other players given up.

I’m just glad I don’t have the responsibility of making the call. That’s why FW and JS get paid a lot more than I do.

By LT-A blogger

October 23, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

I don’t like what I’m hearing we’re going to have to give up for Peavy. Hanson, Schafer, plus either KJ or Yunel. Won’t that open a big hole in the middle infield? Who is going to fill that? Prado-Lillibridge? Take Schafer out of that equation and now we’re stuck with watching G Blanco or Anderson. Granted, I’m sure they’ll make more moves but I don’t like it.

On top of that, Peavy’s elbow trouble last season worries me. I suppose I’m gun shy from all the injuries we had last year, but I think it should anyone pause on trading a ton of talent for one guy (true ace status withstanding).

If the Braves make this move, it seems to me they’ll be trying to give BC one last shot before retirement. There is one thing that would change my mind about this trade, and that would be the Braves signing Manny. Put Peavy and Manny on this team, and I think they’d be an instant contender.

Otherwise, I would much rather sit through 1-2 more season’s of losing watching some new potential young guns trying to cut their teeth.

By Duke

October 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Dont really know why Jax wears those white K-Swiss type shoes instead of biker boots. Great show though

By Dadgum

October 23, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Wayne-o…..Maddux was a free agent when we signed him and to the best of my recollection it was a back-loaded contract paying him a small amount as a signing bonus (by today’s standards).

A point I wanted to make in an earlier post….If this were the 70’s or 80’s trading away a phenom prospect was heresy. There just wasn’t the amount of talented players we have today. Young phenoms are a dime a dozen. The trick is who you have scouting them and how you develop them when you sign them. The national travel teams that have sprung up everywhere have talented coaches developing the players earlier. They are coming out of the woodwork let alone other countries.

The Braves scouting dept. is second to none. Almost impossible to miss any talented players in this country or the world for that matter.

Not to be lost in any of this blogging is the fact that the Braves as we know are owned by Liberty Media. Corporate America. Need to win now…make money now..make the balance sheet look good. This isn’t your Ted’s Braves. Wren is answering to brass that want to win now and job security (while I am not sure that is a #1 issue)is somewhat an issue. While Hanson may pay dividends down the road to satisfy all agendas Wren makes this move.

Which brings me to my point earlier about losing Hanson or anyone of his ilk. IT AIN”T NO BIG DEAL!

Rock on………..

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 23, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Perhaps someone can clarify something for me: if we refused to trade Jo-Jo Reyes in the 2007 trade for Teixeira, why would we be open to trading Hanson (who seems to have a better projection now than Reyes did in mid-2007) for Peavy? Perhaps I’m mistaken about Hanson’s and Reyes’s projections. I understand that it’s a different scenario, different needs in this trade, different ballclub — I get all that. What I don’t get is why we would consider moving a piece that we think is more valuable than an at-the-time-less-valuable piece that we refused to move. Is it also a difference between Wren and Schuerholz?

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

When someone can translate that article criticizing me and others about the Peavy matter, please do so. Until then, I’ll try to forge on despite the stinging rebuke (at least I think it was a rebuke. Not entirely sure)…

Eware,for me it’s no contest: Jenny Lewis. I mean, I like some of Ray L’s songs, but they’re all so similar. Great voice, but his music’s a bit soft for me, not too interesting….

By Lew

October 23, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Dadgum-Sorry Dude, but the injury potential DOES carry water. Now don’t get me wrong, Peavy’s potential arm issues SHOULDN’T BE A DEAL BREAKER ( capitalized because I just want to be clear and not misunderstood like I have been all week), but it should affect the price we pay for him. There is, after all (whether or not any in favor of the trade care to acknowledge it) a potential that if he has to have TJ surgery (and there ARE warning signs) he could miss up to 1/3 of the time the Braves have him under contractual control.

Yes, it is true that Hanson could go down to injury. It is also true that ANY pitcher could conceivably go down for injury requiring surgery. It IS part of the game. However, as has been pointed out-50 less innings than the three previous seasons and missing parts of three season due to arm issues IS a cause for concern. I’m not saying it is definite or even probable that injury will occur, but it sure wouldn’t surprise me, either. It needs to be a factor in the negotiations-and I’m sure it will be.

Like I said-shouldn’t be a deal breaker, but it SHOULD affect what is offered for him.

By StingerSplash

October 23, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Why is it when I see Jayson Werth all I can think is that some band is missing its bass player?

I’m StingerSplash, and I approved this message.

By Lew

October 23, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

One more thing that should affect the Peavy deal, too-we’ll be taking on $15 mil in extra salary and if the package is Schafer, Hanson and Yunel, we are losing what? $2 mil max? Now if we were to take on Khalil Green”s salary, too, we will be taking on an additional several mil and losing not much of anything salary- wise, that’s for sure.

Considering that one of the reasons the Padres are doing this deal is to jettison salary, then THAT is relevant and worth something considerable to the Braves as part of this deal as well. There are different types of equity in deals. Disparity of salary gain/loss is one of them.

By flange1

October 23, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I was thinking the same thing about the Bradbury article. I don’t see any point to what he is saying. He model is WAY oversimplified.

On a second note, what is your take on the Keith Law article? His basic point is the package that is being discussed (Hanson, Schafer, KJ ++) is WAY too much in comparison to the last few deals (except for Bedard).

I think I might agree with him to a certain extent!

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Mother Nature might help the Phillies: There’s a 70 percent chance of rain Saturday, which could push the schedule back. Phillies said Hamels will pitch Monday on regular rest, regardless of which game that is.

It’s scheduled to be Game 5. But if there’s a rainout, Hamels would be pitching Monday in Game 4.

By MGL

October 23, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

If we keep Hanson and he comes up this year and Smoltz comes back, we will have a Tommy-John pitching staff.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Duke, ain’t that the truth about Jax? Every time they show him on the roof reading, with those white sneaks on…. No way a dude in his position wears those — and they’d be anything but spotless if he did wear them.

Fortunately, that doesn’t detract from the show. What a great show. It’s really held up well, week to week, even gotten better.

Oh, one other faux pas by the director or writers of the show: Last night they had the Mayan gang leader say, “You had me drive 40 miles to hear you [bad mouth] me….”

He would’ve never said “drive.” He’d have said “ride.”…

StingerSplash, I thought the same thing about Werth.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I agreed with Law’s premise in his last blog (as I’ve so vehemently argued): those three are too much. I’ve got a very high opinion of both Callis and Law and take their opinions seriously. Law’s got a chat today, It’ll be interesting to see what he has to say on the whole deal. I might not take their take as seriously as, say, the Braves’ beat writer, but they’re intelligent folk.

Oh, and I wouldn’t worry too much if a few people here take offense to your postings. The majority of the people here enjoy them, I reckon.

I think the true price will be lower than KJ, Hanson, and Schafer, but above the offer I mentioned earlier. What kind of offer would you make? I’m maybe saying Gorkys, Flowers, Rohrbough (3 prospects with upside right there) Reyes and Redmond, and if they want a middle infielder tell them Prado is on the table. No sense in blowing up the team if other deals are out there (which I think they are, FW obviously had an offseason plan if he said the top prospects were off-limits). The above offer would be my starting offer, and I’d work a deal up from that structure, not down from Hanson/KJ/Schafer.

By Brian

October 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Well, now that I know Mr. Towers is a “deliberate” man, I can step back and breathe. He ain’t rushin and I ain’t blamin him! Kind of think it’s 50/50 Peavy even gets traded now. If not, I hope Wren breaks the bank for Burnett! We need an ace like I need another hobby!!!

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

The thing is that the Padres need some pieces that can step right in. Rohrbough, Flowers and Gorkys won’t be in the bigs until second half of 2010….and that is if EVERYTHING goes right with their development.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Here’s an article from the official site on Jordan Schafer. Flowers, Hanson and Van Pope mentioned as well.

By flange1

October 23, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Steve from Oh,

On KLaws comment page to his Peavy story there are 2 back to back questions about what it would take from Atlanta to get Peavy. My question (flangebox) and a second that almost mirrors your thoughts at 12:38.

Looking forward to a response. I will be “listening” to the chat today too!

By Jim

October 23, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Are wwe bidding against ourselves here?

What team is offering or can offer the Padres a better pitching prospect than Hanson? Could the Padres get better quality from anyone else than Just Hanson and Schafer or Just Hanson and KJ or Yunel for Peavy? If so, more power to them. What team has a better young pitcher or pitching prospect to offer? Not the Cards or Cubs or Astros. The Yankees have Hughes, but Peavy’s not interested in going there. The Tigers have Verlander and Porcello, but Peavy is not interested no more than the Tigers may be. The Giants have young pitching and need hitters. The Red Sox have Bucholtz and Masterson but are they a match for either party? The only viable contender for Peavy’s services seems to be the Dodgers. They are in the same division, so it would seem that they would have to overwhelm the Padres with their offer. We need to put ourselves in the Dodgers’ shoes and come up with an offer that they might make for Peavy and then see what the Braves would have to do to meet or beat it and decide if it were worth it.

I repeat — you don’t trade three players who will likely be regulars within the next year, and likely be good to very good players, for one player (or one player and a throw-in). That trade weakens us at two positions and only adds the difference between what Peavy might produce over what Hanson might produce, which is likely to diminish after the first year or two of the trade. If you make that trade you need to find two more outfielders plus the other starting pitcher, backup catcher, and spare infielder you will still need. The tradeable players you have left in your organization is now greatly reduced, and your ability to attract free agents is more limited by the budgetary constraints. Teams that have done well are the ones who have a core of younger home-grown talent that is augmented by one or two good trades or FA signings. (Braves of the early 90’s, Yankees of the late 90’s, As of the late 90’s early 2000’s, Twins of ‘91 and the 2000’s, Rays, Phillies, and Brewers this year, Braves of the early 80’s, Marlins between firesales, etc.)

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Flange1, my take on Law’s article is, I agree. I think the Braves might possibly be willing to give up Schafer and Escobar in a deal for Peavy, but not while also giving up Hanson. I know that Hanson is considered close to untouchable by the Braves, so if they do give him up, I really don’t think they’d also be willing to give up Schafer and either Escobar or Kelly.

If they give up Hanson, I’d think he’d have to be the centerpiece for the Braves in the deal. I doubt they’d also include Schafer, unless they’ve reassessed their thoughts on Schafer (and not said so publicly).

And I also have doubts whether they’d include Escobar along with Hanson. To me, if it’s Hanson, then the other pieces would probably be lesser prospects and/or current players, or should be….

Here’s what I wrote two days ago in my most recent story about this whole situation. Notice I didn’t write that they’d include ALL those pieces, but probably would have to include at least one.

This was from my story:

“To get a deal done, it seems likely the Braves would have to part with at least two pitching prospects in a package that might also require Schafer or perhaps promising shortstop Yunel Escobar or second baseman Kelly Johnson.

“The Padres want a young pitcher who can step into their rotation right away, and the Braves could offer rookie Charlie Morton. But the Padres might demand Hanson, who led all full-season minor leaguers with a 2.41 ERA and 163 strikeouts and threw a no-hitter at Class AA Mississippi.”

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think I understand the argument:

Bradbury is saying an ace like Sabathia will likely get $20+ million while Peavy gets $15 million a season, which on the surface seems like a discount.

If Peavy were a free agent, he would also get the $20+ million. So his value is actually $5 million more per year than his current contract. The Padres will ask that they be compensated for that extra value in the form of young talent.

Basically I think all he’s saying is Peavy costs $15 million a year plus the young talent it takes to get him (which the Padres are hoping will equal more than the $5 million difference in Peavy’s contract and Peavy’s actual value).

Essentially Peavy’s cost is $15 million plus players which is more costly than $20 million alone.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’m in accounting, and I’m gonna take a stab and try to translate Bradnury’s statement. No promises.

Peavy costs the Padres 15 mil. Usually an asset, Peavy, is worth its book value. However, his fair market value, what he is worth to the Padres, is greater than that. This is due to the revenues and cash flows that he generates through advertisements and ticket sales. It’s greater than 15 mil. So when the Padres go to trade him, they want to trade him for his market value, not his cost (salary).

When a team goes to trade for Peavy, it will pay more than what he is on the books for. Think about it as a purchase. I have a car that cost me $5000 in 1978. Today its value is $55,000. If I sell it, I’m gonna sell it at value and not cost. I take the gain on the sale. The buyer gets no benefit from the cost of the asset, only the seller.

Back to Peavy. His value to the Padres is greater than 15 mil. they pay for him. When they sell him for his market value, they are realizing a gain on their purchase (the salary they pay for him).

The Braves get no such gain. They have to pay him the same amount, 15 mil. However, they paid more for Peavy than what the 15 mil. represents as an asset. They paid for his market value, those revenue streams. Now they can expect to receive those same streams, but they paid for them in full and recognize no gain unlike the Padres.

This excess cost that they paid is comprised of the prospects that they gave up. They all have value, the future revenues and cash flows the Braves could expect for them. The Braves have to give those up to obtain Peavy.

As result, Peavy is on the books for 15 mil. However, the Braves have already paid extra to insure the revenues they are buying. So when you look at Peavy’s cost to the Braves:

Revenues generated - salary - revenues given up (prospects).

All things equal, the prospects the Braves give up should be equal to the difference between Peavy’s value and salary. We don’t know if that will prove true. That’s where the risk is on both sides.

No matter what, on the day of the trade, the Padres will realize a gain because they are being compensated for the difference in the cost of Peavy and what revenues he generates, and the Braves will have no gain or loss, just a price paid equal to Peavy’s value.

Basically it boils down to this. Peavy is on the Braves’ books for 15 mil. But that is not all that he cost them. They had to pay for the extra value he had over his cost.

It sounds stupid because he is looking at it with players as assets and not employees, but it makes sense in the accounting world where everything is now about fair value and not book value (cost). Peavy is an asset worth more than he costs. The Braves have to pay for that. As an asset, the Braves would value Peavy not at 15 mil. but at what they paid to get him.

I think that’s what he’s getting at. Hope this might help clear it up a little.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Jim, who said the Braves are bidding against anyone yet? I’m not sure they’ve even gotten beyond the exchanging-names stage. What you’re hearing, the names being bandied about, are probably being leaked to those particular writers by someone in the Padres organization as guys they want from Braves to get a deal done. That doesn’t mean the Braves have agreed or will agree to part with any of them, much less all of them.

By mitchie-san

October 23, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOB Just to change things up a little, if it were you, who would you keep? Schafer or Gorkys?

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Bradbury is saying the players a team gives up for Peavy are worth more to a team than the difference of Peavy’s contract and a contract for an ace like Sabathia.

So trading for Peavy and paying his contract is, at best, no cheaper than signing a front-line starter given the players the Padres likely want.

This is necessarily my point of view. I agree to a certain extent but obviously I think it depends on what players the Padres actually get or are willing to accept.

By RC

October 23, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I agree with you on the premise of Bradbury’s article, but I think one thing that is not being taken into account is the difference in the present value of those prospects vs. the future value. To a team trying to win now, the $5 million a year over the next 4 seasons is worth more than prospects who may be worth more than that eventually, but for 2009-2011 or so, are probably worth far less than $5 million a year.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

The Braves are going to have to compete with teams for the likes of AJ Burnett, Oliver Perez, Ryan Dempster, Ben Sheets, C.C. Sabathia, and Derek Lowe. It doesn’t seem like they have as much competition for Peavy…so it seems. But is Jake Peavy(with his contract) > AJ Burnett(with his contract), Jordan Schafer, Tommy Hanson and Yunel Escobar or Kelly Johnson? I know that is probably a bad way of looking at it….but it kind of is the reality of the situation if we are going to get into weighing our options.

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

RC, good point. I think Bradbury is looking at the trade in a vacuum and determining the economic value of the players to the teams, which is what he does and which is very useful. It’s especially useful considering that the Braves don’t appear to be one pitcher away from contention now. But, again, maybe Wren has some other moves cooking that will make the Braves contenders now.

By RC

October 23, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Jrjags, great explanation. As a fellow accountant, I understand Bradbury’s arguement. One thing that his is NOT taking into account though is the value to the Braves for the 2009 season alone. From the sake of comparison, lets make the following claims:

1. Peavy = Sabathia
2. Sabathia will cost $20 million a year to sign
3. Peavy’s salary is $15 million a year
4. The Braves have a set payroll for 2009
5. No prospects traded for Peavy would have otherwise been on the 2009 Braves 25-man roster

With those claims in place, Peavy’s salary IS a benefit for the Braves, if only for 2009. If the Braves signed Sabathia for $20 million, they would have [total payroll - $20M] to spend on the other 24 players on the roster. If they trade players that wouldn’t contribute in 2009 anyway for Peavy, then their cost for the 2009 season of those players is 0. So for 2009 they would have [total payroll - $15 million] to spend on the other 24 players on the team. That extra $5 million is applied DIRECTLY to the value of the 2009 team, giving the following “values” of the team the Braves put on the field in 2009:

With Sabathia = X With Peavy = X + $5 million

That was long winded and poorly written, but hopefully might point makes it across. Prospects are worth 0 to a team for the CURRENT YEAR.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I’ll go ahead and post this one so you don’t get in trouble, lol.

*Brad (Georgia): Keith, please tell me that Frank Wren isn’t seriously considering giving up Johnson, Hanson and Schafer. If you were the Braves’ GM, what kind of package would you give up for Peavy?

Keith Law: (1:17 PM ET ) Atlanta isn’t going to give that up, and it’s not clear that that’s even what the Padres are asking for - that was based on speculation by executives who talked to the NY Post’s Joel Sherman for his article. I went off of that to show that those expectations were outsized. If I was Atlanta’s GM, Hanson and Heyward would be off limits, and I wouldn’t include Escobar. Johnson, Flowers, and maybe a now starter like Reyes or Campillo? Would probably have to add a good A-ball prospect. At that point, you’re talking about something more in line with what Oakland got for Harden.*

That’s a good assessment, IMO.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Brad (Georgia): Keith, please tell me that Frank Wren isn’t seriously considering giving up Johnson, Hanson and Schafer. If you were the Braves’ GM, what kind of package would you give up for Peavy?

Keith Law: (1:17 PM ET ) Atlanta isn’t going to give that up, and it’s not clear that that’s even what the Padres are asking for - that was based on speculation by executives who talked to the NY Post’s Joel Sherman for his article. I went off of that to show that those expectations were outsized. If I was Atlanta’s GM, Hanson and Heyward would be off limits, and I wouldn’t include Escobar. Johnson, Flowers, and maybe a now starter like Reyes or Campillo? Would probably have to add a good A-ball prospect. At that point, you’re talking about something more in line with what Oakland got for Harden.

Now that is what I want to hear. Kelly Johnson, Tyler Flowers and Jo Jo Reyes……although that probably wouldn’t get it done. But maybe something inbetween that and what Joel Sherman reported.

By mbatl

October 23, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

TommyP, next time, try getting rid of the spaces between the ] and ( characters….

DOB, you sort of addressed what I was about to ask. The whole “executives believe a package of Hanson, Schafer and KJ or Escobar” thing sounds suspicious to me. I’d be very surprised if any Braves executive has uttered that combination at this point in the negotiations.

The “unnamed executive” can say pretty much anything that he thinks might make sense to him, even if there’s no real basis for it.

By flange1

October 23, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the response! Good to hear that Hanson is almost untouchable!

From Keith Law’s Chat

Brad (Georgia): Keith, please tell me that Frank Wren isn’t seriously considering giving up Johnson, Hanson and Schafer. If you were the Braves’ GM, what kind of package would you give up for Peavy?

Keith Law: (1:17 PM ET ) Atlanta isn’t going to give that up, and it’s not clear that that’s even what the Padres are asking for - that was based on speculation by executives who talked to the NY Post’s Joel Sherman for his article. I went off of that to show that those expectations were outsized. If I was Atlanta’s GM, Hanson and Heyward would be off limits, and I wouldn’t include Escobar. Johnson, Flowers, and maybe a now starter like Reyes or Campillo? Would probably have to add a good A-ball prospect. At that point, you’re talking about something more in line with what Oakland got for Harden.

By Dadgum

October 23, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Bradbury is off base….You can’t trade somebody with a contract worth 15Mil and then say the team needs to be compensated as if he was a 20Mil player because that is what he would get on the open market in free agency. How rediculous is that. Part of the lure of this possible trade scenario is the fact that he comes relatively cheap. Also who is to say what Peavy would get?

His argument was so poorly worded that I am not really sure I decoded it correctly. I think in there somewhere is something akin to Popeye’s uncle saying” I’ll gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today”. Duh huh. Ya’ll think about it.

Oh and Lew,I hear ya’ on the arm injury thing with Peavy. Of course, the Braves would do a physical or MRI whatever before any proposed trade. I was just conjecturing on down the road arm issues unknown to us or anyone at this stage.

Rock on….remembering the group Seatrain(yeah that one from the 70’s)

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I had to. Johnson Flowers and Jo Jo Reyes is great stuff man.

By mbatl

October 23, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

People moan about the Tex trade. They traded top prospects who were blocked at the major league level. Salty and Andrus are blocked by Heap and Yunnel. Neftali Feliz is the kid that really hurts in thsi deal, but we did get Tex for 2 years and the braves hoped to resign him. - Dan

Just because they were blocked doesn’t mean they didn’t have value. If we had Salty slamming away at AAA in ‘08, and Andrus developing at AA, plus of course Feliz to complement Hanson, Morton, Rohrbough, etc, how strong would our trading position be now?

I am NOT whining about the Tex deal! Just saying that the fact that some guys were blocked doesn’t mean losing them didn’t hurt.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Mike (San Diego): Hey Keith, who is this Tyler Flowers guy? He is raking in the AFL.

Keith Law: (1:53 PM ET ) Catcher, OK behind the plate, great eye/plate discipline, average power. Bat speed’s a little slow so I’m not sure he’s a big average hitter, but at that position? He’s a top 100 prospect, or sure. And I bet that the Padres are all over him.

No reason not to trade him if he sticks at Catcher. Freeman right below at 1st base. Kotchman up here with the big club. He should be a damn good trade piece if people like him at Catcher…..I’m just sayin.

By Jim

October 23, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, I wasn’t speculating about what the Braves were offering. I was only commenting on what the posters on this blog would be willing to give up or to consider. None of us have a clue about what kind of offer the Braves will make but we all have a comment on what we might like to see or not see. I still think it would be worth a good discussion speculating what an offer from a team like the Dodgers might look like so we have some idea about the parameters of a trade that the Braves might consider.

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, I think you could view it like this: The Padres have an ace pitcher locked up for $15 million for the next four years. If they don’t trade him, they have an ace for at least around $5 million under market value. So the Padres would like to get players in return to make it worth close to that $5 million difference.

If the Braves had a relatively young player locked up for a few million dollars under market value and they were looking to trade him, I’d imagine you’d want them to get players to make it worth their while to trade him otherwise why trade him?

By BravesFan79

October 23, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Edgar Renteria is a free agent. Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski said the team will decline shortstop Edgar Renteria’s $12MM option for 2009. They’ll pay the $3MM buyout instead
This is Great news. The Braves should bring back Edgar as a backup infileder to play behind Escobar and serve as a mentor. That would also keep our lineup strong when Chipper needs days off by moving Escobar over to 3rd.

And to those that want to trade our CHEAP slick fielding, unbelievable arm, .330 hitting Escobar for a .215 hitting Greene making 6 million a year and due to probably make more in the near future…. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!!

And dont give me that “bad attitude” crap!
Lets say me and “Bob” were friends since we were little and we both went overseas to play in Japan, and came up together and played on the same team. With Bob as my roadtrip roomate and the only other person that i could speak 2 (because no one else spoke english) Lets say in the middle of the season, for no explainable reason…. the team decides to cut Bob… whos doing pretty decent…….in favor of Phat Cow, a .170 hitter that obviously has no future with the team. Would i not have a reason to be P**!?? Would there be some days were my heart just wasnt in it shortly after the departure?
My thoughts would be “is this team SERIOUS about winning??” Just like i felt after we kept corky over Lopez and Pena. And im sure Escobar felt the same way. Add injuries to it, and the team falling apart around you… and its the perfect formula for a slump.

So EVEN THO Escobar felt this way, did he EVER throw his teamates or coaches under the bus?
NO! If you want to look at bad attitudes, look at Chad Johnson, Elijah Dukes, or Lastings Milledge. But dont you dare put a passionate player who wants to win so bad he wears his emotions on his sleeve…in the same grouping as other low character problem guys. You never hear reports about Escobar having 5 kids out of wedlock, or beating women.

NO ESCOBAR IN 2009 = NO OFFENSE!!
Think about it, hes our 3rd best hitter on the team behind Chipper and Mccan, and one of the best defensively!
KJ’s production would be ALOT easier to replace with Prado than Escobars would be with Greene or Renteria. Besides Prado is a more natural 2nd basemen… making him better on Defense as well

Loose Escobar is loosing Passion, Desire, fielding, OBS, and batting average.
Besides Escobar isnt one of the players that pads his stats only when the games out of reach…..hes CLUTCH!! Hes an untouchable player…and anyone who cant see that dosent remember the 2nd half of the 2007 season.

By ck

October 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Ok so the Braves get a great contract in Peavy…. Anybody remember Mike Hampton and the great contract we got there???

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 23, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

but we did get Tex for 2 years Dan

Well, technically we got Tex for 1 year. But he spanned two years, so in a way you’re right.

Has anybody read that comment on Keith Law’s blog, the one that Brad from Georgia wrote? ;)

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Jim, agreed. It’s been speculated on what the Dodgers MIGHT offer, but again, I think that speculation is a bit far-ranging and ambitious. I don’t think they’d give up half the players whose names have been thrown out on the blogosphere and internet, and in print in some publications….

I think Wren, while one who’s willing to move quickly in these matters, is also prudent enough not to mortgage the farm and bid “against himself” so to speak. He’ll have a good idea what other clubs are willing to part with before he gives up more than he’s comfortable giving up for Peavy. Or at least I think that’s the case. We’ll find out, I’d imagine….

Guitars-whiz aficionados, in case you missed it: Joe Satriani is playing Variety Playhouse on Saturday, with Mountain as the opening act.

Lot of good music going on this weekend in Atlanta, including TV on the Radio playing Tabernacle with Dirtbombs opening. I’ll be in chilly, wet Philly, however….

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79, so what would re-signing Ed have to do with you and Bob?

By Bobby's Cox

October 23, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79

Beautiful post at 2:04

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

And off the subject of Peavy for a moment, speaking of our guitar-god arguments a week or so ago, I don’t know if anyone mentioned the dudes in North Mississippi Allstars. But they absolutely shred. Listening to “Hernando” CD now, is what made me think about it.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79, I agree with you on Escobar being a special player. And I also like your idea of bringing back Renteria as a “mentor,” because he was a terrific influence on Yunel in 2007, really was. Everyone said so in the clubhouse.

Problem is, I don’t know that Edgar is ready to be a backup or to move to second base (which would obviously only be an option if Braves moved Kelly).

Now, if no other teams make him an offer to play SS, that obviously changes, unless he’s ready to retire. And I don’t think Edgar’s ready to retire, though I didn’t get to talk to him since spring training. I’m not sure on that aspect.

By Jesus

October 23, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Just make the freakin deal!!!! Lets face it, Chipper is not getting any younger, if Smoltz and/or Glavine come back this will probably be there last year. We would have an ACE for five more seasons, at least. The Phillies have Hamels, The Mets have Santana, we need Peavy. What ever it takes Mr. Wren…whatever it takes.

By Shaun

October 23, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79, I can’t see the Braves spending much to bring back Renteria when they already have Infante, Prado and Lillibridge. Maybe if they trade one of them and Renteria comes extremely cheap (which he may).

By Lew

October 23, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

DOB-Speaking of Satriani-Just heard some sessions he did with Deep Purple. It sounded very good. Totally hell raising rock and roll. Apparently he played some live shows with them some years back. Sure wish I’d seen them. Not sure if video of any of the concerts exists, but I’m looking. There’s a cut or two on the latest Ian Gillan solo and possibly a video of Satriani playing Smoke On The Water with Purple..

By mitchie-san

October 23, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Comparing Hampton’s continuous freak injuries to Peavy isnt fair. Even if Hampton only had TJ surgery, no one would have ever complained about him. He would have missed his year and apparently been OK. So seriously, you cant speculate that all things will go wrong with Peavy too. Its ridiculous and pretty pessimistic.

By jrjags

October 23, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

RC

Great point about 2009 alone. Prospects have no value for this season unless they are called up.

For the Braves in 2009, however, I think that Hanson and Schafer do have some value. How much is an estimate, but both of those guys are projected to be up with the club by midseason if not earlier. That would significantly cut into the 5 mil. benefit for 2009 realized by a Peavy deal, especially since both of those guys have a lot of hype that is likely to bring people out to the park to see them. If the Braves give up Escobar or Johnson, I think the 5 mil. benefit is wiped out completely.

By flange1

October 23, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

DOB,

On music, spent some coin over the weekend on some new stuff!

Loved the new BB King, the new Pretenders is GREAT and the Johnny Cash Folsom Prison RI is top notch.

Strangely, just bought a couple North MS All stars that I don’t have. They do rip it up…

While Satch is a monster player, he is not one of my favorites, but Leslie West in Mountain will CRUSH you with volume if you haven’t seen them.

I have been really digging the tone on Clapton’s most recent blues albums From the Cradle and the Robert Johnson Sessions. The man can really make the guitar sign.

If Jeff Beck will ever issue a new album….

The Gilmour DVD is also quite good…

By TommyP

October 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me what I need to change in my first attempt above to link an article?

Hope this doesn’t strike a chord with people…..but…..this is the first World Series in awhile where there have been several African-American players involved.

Might increase participation in the inner-city programs that Selig has instituted.

By phattso

October 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Looks like Wren is going to be a tight A$$ with his prospects. Just doesn’t make sense to me. A “prospect” is exactly that, a PROSPECT. Who knows how the prospects will turn out, but we know right this second that Peavy is a STUD. If you haven’t seen him pitch, he’s NASTY. I don’t know how a right hander can hit the ball off of him.

And to compare his injuries to Hampton is OBSURD. Do us a favor Wren, go get our Ace.

By brian

October 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

article on ESPN.com. Hopefully it means that the Braves are going to keep Hanson.

ATLANTA — General manager Frank Wren insists the Braves won’t trade their most valued prospects, apparently not even to bring Jake Peavy to Atlanta.

Speculation about the Braves’ interest in Peavy has grown since the San Diego Padres confirmed they were fielding offers for the 2007 NL Cy Young Award winner.

Jake Peavy

Starting Pitcher San Diego Padres

Profile

2008 Season Stats GM W L BB K ERA 27 10 11 59 166 2.85

On Sept. 29, one day after the Braves completed their first 90-loss season since 1990, Wren said he wouldn’t part with the organization’s top prospects.

Wren made that proclamation before knowing the Padres would consider trade offers for Peavy, but he affirmed his stance Thursday when asked about Peavy.

“From our perspective we still feel the same and we are looking to the future when that next wave of talent I spoke of arrives in Atlanta,” Wren said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Two top minor league players mentioned in widespread trade speculation are starting pitcher Tommy Hanson and outfielder Jordan Schafer.

Peavy has a no-trade clause in his contract with the Padres, and his agent, Barry Axelrod, has said the right-hander likely would approve moves to the Braves, Houston Astros, Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago Cubs and St. Louis Cardinals.

Peavy, a native of Mobile, Ala., would seem to be a good fit for the Braves. Wren said his top offseason priority is to add two starting pitchers.

The San Diego Union-Tribune reported this week the Padres had three scouts watching Hanson make an impressive start at a recent Arizona Fall League game.

Numerous reports suggest the Braves might include Schafer, Hanson and one of two Atlanta infielders — shortstop Yunel Escobar or second baseman Kelly Johnson — in an offer for Peavy.

“Many of the trade speculations that have been written over the past few weeks are inaccurate,” Wren said. “For the most part they are simply an outsider speculating what we might do and not what we would do.”

The 23-year-old Hanson threw a no-hitter for Double-A Mississippi this year. He was 11-5 with a 2.41 ERA and had 163 strikeouts in 138 innings at Class A Myrtle Beach and Mississippi.

Padres general manager Kevin Towers has said he expects to have young pitchers included as the starting point of any talks involving Peavy.

Wren said the Braves must plan to be without right-hander Tim Hudson, who had elbow ligament-replacement surgery on Aug. 7, for the full 2009 season.

John Smoltz and Tom Glavine had season-ending shoulder and elbow surgeries, respectively, and their status for 2009 remains uncertain.

Meanwhile, left-hander Mike Hampton is a free agent.

Wren said he hopes to re-sign Hampton, but he still will need to add more starting pitching. As the rotation currently stands, the top returning starters are 2008 rookies Jair Jurrjens, Jorge Campillo and Charlie Morton.

“We’re going to have to get an established starter or two that can kind of lead the way for our younger pitchers, and we do like our younger pitchers,” Wren said. “We think we’ve got a real good group coming, but we need some veteran stability at the top of the rotation to take some of the pressure off them.”

Wren said Hanson could make his major league debut “at some point” in the 2009 season but shouldn’t be counted on to make the opening day rotation.

Peavy was 10-11 with a 2.85 ERA this season and was on the disabled list from May 15 to June 12 with a strained right elbow. He was 19-6 with a 2.54 ERA in 2007.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

By mbatl

October 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

TommyP, I made a suggestion earlier on the linking problem: don’t put spaces between the “]” and “(” characters…. hope that helps.

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Oh, good. The Blog’s back!

By Joe M.

October 23, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

I’m gonna LOL when Peavy is pitching like an ace next season while another way-overhyped Braves’ pitching prospect (Tommy Hanson) is getting lit up like a Christmas tree on a weekly basis in the major leagues.

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

brian article on ESPN.com. Hopefully it means that the Braves are going to keep Hanson.

Hopefully it means they’re gonna keep their middle infield, too.

Joe M.—

I’m not.

By Randy S

October 23, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

DOB - Agreed on No Mississippi Allstars. I had soured a little on them, having seen them a ton at the Georgia Theatre, but last time they came to Variety, Luther (lead guitar) put on a clinic. Very impressive, lots of jaw-dropping stuff.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 23, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Joe. M

What are you going to do when you see Peavy pitching like an ace in Atlanta and Hanson pitching the same way 3 days later with that tomahawk on his chest?

I know what I’ll be doing…. smiling

By Brian

October 23, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Wren could pull off a trade of KJ, Rourbough, Flowers, Hernandez, Morton for Peavy? It can still happen but I don’t think it will now.

By ccrider

October 23, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

The Statement by Frank Wren is precisely the stance he should take on this potential trade. First, If we lose Escobar, Schafer and Hanson, the only replacement coming back is Peavy. This leaves a hole now and in the future in Centerfield and Shortstop. We haven’t heard from the Braves brass the same comments about Gorky as we have Schafer. Gorky is younger and less developed. He may become a starter someday but it’s probably 3 seasons away. We need a better CF now to compete. Schafer can be our Duston Pedroia. We have nobody to replace Escobar that is near as complete as he is. Hanson is the best pitching prospect since maybe Smoltz. I still bet the trade is eventually made, because we have a ton of good prospects to trade that doesn’t include: Hanson, Heyward, Schafer, Freeman and Teheran. Players like Flowers, Gorky, Prado, B. Jones, Hicks, T. Jones, Eric Campbell, Jon Gilmore, Cody Johnson, K. Kaaihue, L. Somoza and that’s just some position players. Medlin, Rohrborough, Redmond, Diamond, Reyes, Locke, Cordier, Heath, Marek, evarts, Kent, Delgado, Dunesnil, Lyman and more. I package of Flowers, Gorky, Prado, Rohrborough, Redmond and Reyes would probably get it done. It would give San Diego possible starters at Catcher, CF, 2B and 3 very good young controllable starting pitchers. It’s as good of a haul as Oakland got for Haren and if you read the comments from around the league, it’s not just the bloggers on DOB’s site that questions whether Peavy may have some lingering injury questions. Stick to you guns, Frank. Robbing Peter to pay Paul won’t build a contender.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Well, I for one am glad that Wren is staying firm with his decision to keep our top prospects in the system. To me, this is a clear indication that he either feels that the Peavy trade can be made without these guys, or that he isn’t seriously considering a trade for Peavy and has a pre-outlined offseason plan in place, with maybe a few tentative deals already struck. I also thought that this comment about Hanson: “[he] should make his major league debut “at some point” in the 2009 season but shouldn’t be counted on to make the opening day rotation” was very telling because it seems to me like FW is saying that Hanson will be in the fold for ‘09, on standby if Morton or Campillo falter.

In any case, I’m really glad to see this. Hopefully we’ll see Schafer and Hanson at the Ted at some point in ‘09.

By Bring back John Schuerholz

October 23, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Wren is a little freakin girl. No trade gets made or no big signings and I cancel my season tickets. I realize that Im just one fan but im sick and tired of us not making any moves. Even worse they get our hopes up and let us down. 14 straight division titles and only ONE world title ring a bell. Screw Wren and the front office

Agreed 100%.

Wren doesn’t want to trade for Peavy (I guess, since you can’t get something without giving up something.) Wren doesn’t want to sign big-money free agents.

I feel this offseason, Wren’s big moves will be Jacque Jones and Mike Hampton. 2009 looks like a 95-loss season.

Nothing big is happening this offseason with Captain Reluctant at the wheel of the Braves’ ship.

By Bring back John Schuerholz

October 23, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Hopefully we’ll see Schafer and Hanson at the Ted at some point in ‘09.

I hope when they both stink all you “keep all our prospects because they’re ours and they will be good and youth and grit and young players and sure-fire no-doubt future MVPs!!!!!!!!!!!!11” people here will realize what morons you’ve been.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

I had the original comment about Wren being “a girl” for not making moves removed not because it was the most idiotic post of the week (which it was), but because the screen name offended quite a few people.

The lame post was reprinted above by someone calling himself Bring Back John Schuerholz, in its entirety. Thank goodness, because it’d be a shame if everyone didn’t get a chance to enjoy that intelligent screed (he says, rolling his eyes).

Seriously, it was the worst post in weeks. Perhaps months. Congratulations are in order.

By the way, how many moves have been made in baseball so far this offseason, with players switching teams? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

14 straight division titles and only ONE world title ring a bell.

Good lord, Lorn…here we go again…

Hey, y’all, be happy you were at least old enough to know what was happening! I’d give anything except my soul to see them win a World Series!

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I like the quotes from Wren. Makes a lot more sense to keep their top prospects. After hearing more about Tyler Flowers, I feel like the Braves should consider offering Johnson, Flowers, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke. That seems like a lot more what the A’s got for Haren. Braves keep Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer and Teheran.

By ccrider

October 23, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Hey: Jesus and Bring Back John Schuerholz, I think you should both leave the Braves to us simple minded fans. You can obviously GM better than Frank Wren; you know the guy that stole Jair Jurjjens amd Gorky Hernandez from Detroit for an aging Edgar Renteria and also stole Omar Infante and Wil Ohman from the Cubs for Jose Ascaiano. I know if you both were GM you would probably and happily send Hanson, Heyward, Schafer, Freeman, Escobar, Kelly Johnson to get that NO.1 Starter. Of course, that would leave you short at SP,LF,CF,1B,SS and 2B in the future, but Jake Peavy is good enough to lead us to the World Series: LOOK what he did for the Padres! MY BAD

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

OK, I wouldn’t give my life or my family members, either, but you catch my drift.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

DOB a Satch fan? Never woulda guessed it. Satch and Mountain together would be a fine show. If I was actually in Georgia, I would see it.

Going to check out the North Mississippi Allstars on youtube right now…

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

I would offer Gorkys, KJ, Flowers and Rohrbough. That might be a bit much, too.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 23, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

for those of you willing to jump ship and trade in your season tickets…. please send your tix this way, I’ll put them to good use…. I’m a FAN not a FAIR WEATHER fan…. get it? Apparently you don’t….

By mitchie-san

October 23, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

I thought since we kept braeking the past few blogs with a 1000 comments, they bumped DOB’s comment amount down to like 50…. Glad its back.

Oh, McFann, 1995 was a glorious year…..

By Lew

October 23, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Dude, that’s a much more reasonable package. They could even throw in Rohrbough if they needed to.

I really don’t understand why his arm issues and $15 million a year salary (which WE would take on) don’t count for some discount on the guy. NO ONE is going to trade a package like Hanson, Schafer and Yunel/Kelly to them and take on that risk and salary. People need to realize that San Diego also receives benefit by losing all of that salary. It is at least worth a minor league player to the Pads.

By Dallas

October 23, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Having read ESPN’s Keith Law’s take on the whole Peavy ordeal, it seems as though there are some concerns over his road vs. home splits, his elbow, and Keith law appears to think his stuff is diminishing. Are we being blinded to some of these things since we are so excited about the prospect of receiving such a big name like him? Or are these legit concerns?

By ncscoots

October 23, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Actually, the “Wren is a girl” poster and his fan are about in line with the bloggers in San Diego, LOL. I read some of those today, and man…I mean, as far as the front office is concerned, those bloggers say “kill ‘em all, and let God sort ‘em out. If He cares.”

As far as The Trade goes, one guy says that the Padres should accept no less (no LESS, mind you) than Jurrjens, Escobar, Hanson, and Schafer.

And, therefore, I apologize to any Braves/MIB blogger I may have previously called a dolt. Because the dumbest, most blockhead poster on this blog (OK, maybe not robdawg06, but anybody else) comes off like Branch Rickey compared to those posters from San Diego. :-)

Even the scoots needs a little reminder every once in a while, on how lucky we are in this forum. I got it today, good buddies. So, blog on, you maniacs; I’ll be more respectful in the future!

By Lew

October 23, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

McFann-I had a DR. appt. today way out in the boonies. On the way there is a little farm pond by the side of the road. Today there was a flock of about 50 Canada Geese swimming there. They were still there a couple hours later when I came back by.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I would offer Gorkys, KJ, Flowers and Rohrbough. That might be a bit much, too.

I’d love to keep Rohrbough and Locke completely out of it, but I would assume one of them has to go. I have to think that the Padres are impressed with Flowers. Add Johnson with him and throw in 2 pitchers and maybe it’s a go. I’ve never really seen Towers say he wants a CF prospect back. I hear they want up the middle prospects and pitching. I think we fit them really well without having to give up Hanson. Considering the money Haren is making, maybe Law is right when he says Peavy isn’t worth the same bounty? Though, his name and hardware(2007 Cy Young) will net the Padres a bounty. I don’t know. If Wren doesn’t want to give up the top prospects, then maybe the Braves just move on. I like it…to be honest.

And it would be quite unfortunate if Braves fans gave management crap if Hanson struggles out of the gate in 2009. Not everyone starts their major league career like Tim Lincecum or Edinson Volquez.

By Lew

October 23, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Dallas-Yes.

By Bubdylan

October 23, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Wren’s statement made my day. Protecting the next wave is good. It’s a gamble, like any move or non-move. But I have a good feeling about it. Frank Wren’s combination (so far) of aggressiveness (Jair/ Gorkys was a quick trigger, Glavine, too), carefulness (protecting the future), and open communications with the fans is hard not to like. I know there are some disadvantages to letting your intentions be known, but I like his style. I imagine it garners respect from other clubs, too.

By San Diego Agogo

October 23, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

We will send you Peavy and Greene. In return you send us Escobar,Schafer,Hanson,Flowers Hernandez and Rohrbough. That sounds fair to me.Deal?

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

mitchie-san 1995 was a glorious year…

I’ll bet it was, mitchie-san. I’ll bet it was…

[sigh]…

Lew—

50 geese?? Whoa! That’s cool! I love watching them land in the water and swim!

We saw a Belted Kingfisher by a pond less than a mile from our subdivision on our way to by bird food. Sometimes there’s geese there, too.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

Agreed.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Lew

I’d love to keep Rohrbough or Locke. I wouldn’t want to send them both. Remember, before 2008, Rohrbough was considered to have a higher ceiling that Hanson. He had some injuries to begin the year. He throws a knuckle curve man…..gotta love the knuckle curve. JP Howell throws it for TB. Of course he couldn’t command it as a starter consistently, but he is a nasty reliever. Anyways, I’m rambling. Just real happy Wren made those statements today.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Dallas

I mean it has too, right? I am sure the Braves don’t sit there and listen to Keith Law and Jim Callis, but they seem to be smart baseball people. Neither of them think the Braves should trade the package that Joel Sherman proposed…..and I am glad Frank Wren said this much in this afternoons statement.

By Booby Cox

October 23, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

I for one am dissapointed my boss won’t go all out for my final year! Ha, like I care what happens after ‘09! I would trade Hanson, Heyward and the moon for the Jakester! Will you all join me on my campaign for the Jakester?

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you’re reading my mind tonight, bro.

I’m not sure which of the group of Rohrbough/Locke I like better. Probably Rohrbough, but Locke’s no slouch either…

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 23, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

And it would be quite unfortunate if Braves fans gave management crap if Hanson struggles out of the gate in 2009. Not everyone starts their major league career like Tim Lincecum or Edinson Volquez.Efrim

Sorry to nitpick on your comment Efrim, but Volquez kinda struggled out of the gate himself. His stats with the Rangers in 2005-07:

17 starts, 80 IP, 7.20 ERA, 55 Ks, 42 BBs, allowed 14 home runs (same as he allowed this year).

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH: No, not a Satriani fan. Just posting it for the benefit of those who might be, since I know some folks on here bring him up whenever we discussed guitarists. I don’t own a single recording by him.

Now, North Mississippi Allstars, that’s another thing altogether. I dig them. Saw them open for John Hiatt (he’s one of my favorites) a few years back, and then served as his backing band for his set. Awesome.

By JC from UT

October 23, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

FW must have a plan B in his back pocket if the Peavy trade does not come through. Any thoughts on who plan B could be? I sure it would be a lesser starting pitcher but that would also mean lesser prospects given up. Or would the same type of package entice Toronto to give up Hallady? Probably not. Maybe Aaron Harang. Now that drayton Moore hears these names out there He may be inticed to trade Grienke of course for lesser prospects.

By Efrim

October 23, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe

Good point. Spread over three different seasons, he did struggle in his major league appearences.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Dallas, believe what you want regarding Peavy. You read one guy’s opinion (Law’s) about Peavy’s stuff “diminishing” and believe it? Have you seen others — scouts, opponents, etc — say that, either on or off the record? I haven’t. I saw that his fastball velocity has actually risen in recent years, for what it’s worth…

Does Gruden have something against whole caps? He just read the Rays’ lineup in a Tampa Bay Rays visor, after taking off his Bucs visor. He has more visors than a sorority girl….

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB not a Satch fan? You’re killing me man, lol. Naw, different strokes for different folks, it’s all good. Now the North Mississippi Allstars? I can see why you dig them; I checked out a few of their tracks and enjoyed them very much. Pretty good stuff.

By Deep Throat

October 23, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Wren’s statement made my day.

I don’t know how. What’s he going to say? “Yeah I’m trading them all before December!”? Hanson/Schafer/whoever could still very easily be traded for Peavy. I still think it is going to happen actually.

By Steve

October 23, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Let me get your opinion on this. Last night every time a play or a call went against the Rays, you would see either a player or the Manager make sure everybody stayed calm, and they avoided a big inning. Comparing that to Bobby Cox….do you think that calming effect really makes a difference. I mean if I am a player and we have a call go against us and my manager runs out on the field giving the impression that the bad call will cost us the game, I have to start beleiving the same thing, rather than the manager just saying ..it is ok lets calm down and get out of the inning.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat, I don’t think that he would have said that unsolicited unless he really isn’t planning on trading those guys.

By Brian

October 23, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

DOB- Maybe that guy had a woman tell him he looked good in a visor one time. He does have some golden locks! Are you jealous?

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Speaking of BBQ (we weren’t, but should more frequently), ate some terrific stuff today from Wyatt’s Diner, at the corner of Memorial Drive and Maynard Terrace in Atlanta, maybe a mile or less before you get to East Lake if you’re heading east on Memorial.

The chopped pork platter was probably as good as any BBQ I’ve had in this city. Juicy, with sauce that had some kick. There’s a plethora of sides available (it’s a BBQ and soul food place). The mac & cheese was perfect, the butter beans pretty close to perfect.

It’s a tiny dive of a joint; if you go, just plan on getting takeout. A platter with two sides was 8 bucks.

By BravesFan79

October 23, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

I think if anything the Braves have learned the past 2 seasons, its that you cant have a really weak bench and expect to win it all. Signing Renteria will help improve our late game pinch hitting (we damn sure wouldnt of lost so many 1 run games if we were better in this area) I think Renteria would be willing to come back pretty cheap to the Braves.

If im Wren i put it like this: you know Bobby likes to give guys plenty of days off between 2nd, SS, and 3rd. We promise you at least 3 starts a week at either SS or 2nd, and when Chipper needs a break we slide Escobar over and you take over SS. Because we all know at some point in the season there’s gonna be a 10-15 game stretch where Chipper cannot start due to injury. (hopefully he can still pinchit).

So there will be PLENTY of starting chances for Renteria thru the season. I see no reason why he should take it as a slap in the face.
Wouldnt we WANT a greatly talented infield offensively with the big question mark that is our outfield? Ahh i cant wait to see Smoltz come back in the pen… hopefully he holds off till the All Star break…. giving the team a boost.
I see no reason why the Braves cant hang around 5 games over .500 until the all star break next year, then with Smoltz, and hopefully Hudson coming back…… make a serious run in the 2nd Half.

By Deep Throat

October 23, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat, I don’t think that he would have said that unsolicited unless he really isn’t planning on trading those guys.

We’ll see. I think Wren is playing a game of some kind with the Padres.

By McFann Ô

October 23, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Beat. Them. FILLIES!!!

By Jake

October 23, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

I know that most people believe the braves to be the front runners in a trade for Peavy but who else is in the running? What kind of prospects do they have to offer in comparison to ours?

By MizzouBravesFan

October 23, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Pretty clear to me it’s posturing…why else would he come out and say it?

It looks like he’s seeing if he can get SD to bite on a deal right now that doesn’t include Hanson or Schafer seeing as San Diego really has nowhere else to turn to.

If not, I can see him ponying one of them in the end to get the deal done. This is the best chance to acquire a true top of the line impact ace pitcher, something Wren has stated is a priority.

I seriously doubt this ends the speculation and trade…if anything, it’s only just begun. :-\

By cabravesfan

October 23, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

McFann

Man you make me feel old! you really were not old enough to remember 1995? I’m crying inside…

Speaking of BBQ (we weren’t, but should more frequently)

Definitely something we are seriously lacking out here in beautiful Southern California (it was 90 degrees here today) …desperately in need of some good southern BBQ- enjoy it:)

By N Nine

October 23, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

By the way, how many moves have been made in baseball so far this offseason, with players switching teams? Yeah, that’s what I thought DOB

Thank you very much

Good day for the Braves, I trust Wren. Last year’s trades turned out to be great. He will make the moves when its time. I believe goals will be achieved at some point and no reason to throw all our good player to the Padres. Wren stays true to his words by reiterating the blue chip players will stay. Which he said before all the Peavy talks.

Imagine getting a few good starters then have Huddy come back, add Hanson and possibly the rising Morton. For the future we could be solid if we make the moves correctly.

By mbatl

October 23, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

I think if anything the Braves have learned the past 2 seasons, its that you cant have a really weak bench and expect to win it all

Braves actually had a very good bench in 2008. 2nd in the NL in pinch hits (just one hit behind the Phillies); and the best pinch-hitting BA in the NL (.265).

All things being equal, I think Infante, Prado, Norton are very good backups. We could use a 4th outfielder with some pop, but I guess first we have to assemble three outfielders to start.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 23, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Shields is doing a fine job of getting himself out of the trouble he’s getting himself into.

DOB or anybody else — have you gotten the new Bob Dylan bootleg series cd? Your thoughts? The previews I’ve listened to on itunes sound terrific, I just haven’t gotten it yet.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Steve, how ‘bout Satchmo (Louis Armstrong)? That I’m down with.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, always down for some good jazz. Speaking of jazz, how ‘bout Miles Davis? My guitar instructor keyed me onto him a while ago…really enjoying his stuff.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 23, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan—

Nope. I wasn’t old enough. Believe me, I’m cryin’ inside, too!

Someday they’ll give us another Title. I know they will. I’m just hopin’ that certain someone we discussed last night will still be with the Braves next time they win it all! (I wanna see him hit a two-run double in the WS. That’d be a dream come true!)

90º?? Dang! That stinks! We’re having 50’s! Whoo-hoo!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 23, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

The guys on TV just reminded us that Jimmy Rollins was only caught stealing three times this year.

Ah, yes! And the first time was by probably the last person you would guess…

; ) I gotta be wrappin’ it up, here…

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 23, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

4-0!! GO RAYS!! BEAT THEM FILLIES!!

Just had to get one more in! ; )

Night, all!

By superbarrio

October 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

To the fans of quantum mechanics: the act of observation effects the outcome of the event.

Yes, it’s true. Since I just now looked in on WS game number 2, and finding TB winning, I will go back to non observance.

Thank me later, TB.

By flange1

October 23, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

dude great post at 7:34. Forgot about our friend Robdawg!

MS All Stars are great! I know Lew is a big fan of the new Black Crows album, that is one of the MS All Star brothers playing lead on the album. He is a slide king…

Listen to the new Crows album and you will hear how good the guitars can be and then check out the All Stars.

Steve from OH, Satch is not my cup of tea either, although I respect his ability! Saw the G3 tour a couple years back with Vai and Eric Johnson. Great technical playing!

But they didn’t have any soul….. ANY of them…BY the way the Eric Johnson Strat is the best non-custom shop Fender you can buy….

Much rather listen to Luther and the All Stars….

By superbarrio

October 23, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, meat is murder, man. You really should think about it. All those animals you eat are sentient beings, dude. The pork and beef industries are especially cruel in their “harvesting.” Not to mention the poor chicken.

Bad karma. Very bad karma.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Flange, I think Satch has soul when he decides to show it! Have you checked out The Extremist (album)? Great tracks on that…in fact, check out this track and this one. I think Satch is the man, but sometimes you have to slow down his licks to hear the feeling and technique…

By cabravesfan

October 23, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

McFann

I am with you there- would like nothing more then to see our boy with a world series ring (and that double would be great too!)

yeah- it’s a little warm here…can’t remember the last time it was in the 50s during the day

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Daybed, the new Vol. 8 of the Dylan Bootleg series is outstanding. Not good, but absolutely great. A must-own for any Zimmerman fan….

Steve, can’t go wrong with Miles. Birth of the Cool, Bitches Brew, Miles Ahead, Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain….

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Cabravesfan, I wouldn’t mind flying to sunny, warm California tomorrow. Gonna be a bit wet and chilly most of the weekend in Philly, though should be nice tomorrow (on the off day, of course).

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 23, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

I think if anything the Braves have learned the past 2 seasons, its that you cant have a really weak bench and expect to win it all BravesFan79

There’s that, and it helps to have some decent starting pitching. And a solid bullpen that doesn’t blow lots of saves. And to have both of those in the same year. And have their key players healthy. And to have a strong, consistent offense.

You make that statement as if everything else — starting pitching, bullpen, offense, defense, health — was hitting on all cylinders, but the bench was just the one thing that prevented them from “winning it all.” If only that were the case.

By David O'Brien

October 23, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Superbarrio: Meat is Murder is a terrific album.

“It’s not natural, normal or kind

The flesh you so fancifully fry

The meat in your mouth

As you savor the flavor

Of murder…”

By Kentavo

October 23, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’ve seen you reference the Who on here a few times, so I thought I’d let you know The Who (or The Two) is playing Sunday in Philly while you’re there. The band is of course not the same without Moonie or Entwistle, but Daltrey and Townshend still bring it. If you haven’t seem ‘em since the 80s, they’ve been rocking much harder since the late ’90s and is well worth checking out.

By MGL

October 23, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan79 - “I think Renteria would be willing to come back pretty cheap to the Braves.”

What in the world makes you think that? Just because his $12M option was not picked up doesn’t mean he has to take a position with the Braves on the cheap.

By uga-brave

October 23, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

auburn has given up 31 unanswered points.

rough season down on the plains.

By cabravesfan

October 23, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

DOB

You are always welcome out here in the sunshine, sir:)

By Brian

October 23, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Jason Werth- “Skelator” Victorino-“Hawaien midget” Utley- “Mr. I use a great product of vasoline all over my my dry, chapped body.” Howard- well, he just plain ole’ ugly

By Ron in mobile

October 23, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

DOB I saw the All-Stars in that show with Hiatt as well. I don’t have anything against John, but watching them back him up?? Wasnt it sort of like driving a ferrari through a school zone?

By GSU-Lee

October 23, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

DOB, didn’t know you liked the jazz…I got Kind of Blue in my ears as we speak…what a cast on that CD, Coltrane is great onn their. What other jazz do you like? Being a bass player myself, I love Stanley Clarke and Charlie Mingus

By uga-brave

October 23, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

all this will we or wont we get peavy talk is getting a little tedious.

still are gonna need another starter and a outfielder.

anyone else think wren will start to waver on that $40 million number considering the state of the economy?

By Wayne

October 23, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

bravesfan79 Agree with a lot of what you are saying in your 8:58pm post about a strong bench. I too like Renteria, but I think we already have our person to do as you suggest in Omar Infante.

The biggest problem with Infante is that when he subs for Chipper, it is a huge drop-off, but I am not sure what you do short of having another position player to move over to third base (Casey Blake could play lf and move to third when Chipper was out).

If we had a player that could move from another spot, then we would not be limited with Infante and Prado to backup Hoss. We could move in a better hitting backup outfielder.

With our current roster, that would have to be Diaz, Norton or B Jones.

4-1 is looking good right now! Go Rays!

By Doc Holliday

October 23, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Is Jeff Francoeur still on the team? Im just hoping we get rid of him as much as the braves get Peavy. Those 2 moves would improve this team a lot.

Somebody was mentioning last night that it would be a mistake to move Hanson in order to get Peavy. I dont agree with that. Braves have showed that they dont have the magic to develop great pitchers……. Smoltz, Hudson, Jurjens, Maddux, etc. are not local products. You can only mention Glavine. Avery deflated. James, Kyle Davis and Horacio Ramirez? what do we have to show for them? Nothing.

Then you have Wainwright and Schimdt. Thats 3 pitchers since 1988……..only 3. Maybe you would like to add Milwood.

Id say go for Peavy even id Hanson has to go, he is already a proven winner. What I dont like is to send 3 talents for 1. Cause to me Schafer and Escobar are needs to this team. Prado should stay in the bench since we dont have any other good bench player. If we send Escobar packing, we wont have any infield back up. Id would even play Prado at 1B and sent Kotchman and Hanson for Peavy. Schafer should not go since our OF is a mess. Maybe he is not an answer……..but he might be.

By Steve from OH

October 23, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, I don’t think it’s fair to use other failed pitching prospects as a litmus test for Hanson. Each case is different. Avery was good until he got hurt, and Ramirez and James didn’t have the stuff that was necessary to sustain success at the big-league level. Hanson, as of now, appears to (or at least, appears to have much more than either of those two).

GSU-Lee:

What a coincidence! I’ve got Kind of Blue going as well.

By dgd

October 23, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Finally heard the new Lucinda Williams CD today and it’s really, really good. Definitely in her top three along with “Car Wheels” from 1998 and “Lucinda Williams” from 1988. Interesting that she turns out a great album once every 10 years. My favorite LW song is still “Side of the Road” from “Lucinda Williams”………..

By BravesFan79

October 23, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Funny i thought your name was Supperburrio at first….so the vegii stuff thru me for a loop….

I suggest you raise a chicken, and then let your dog kill it in the backyard, this will be a natural occurence in nature… and let u enjoy some much needed BBQ without the guilt right??

Wayne The person we should move over to 3rd is Escobar. Hes done it before, and did a fine job. Then we stick Renteria at SS. Do this once a week to give Chipper a rest.

And i find it surprising that we had such a good bench batting average in 2008. Sorry but my head is still filled with the nightmares of having the likes of Corky, Thorman and Woodward getting critical late game at bats in crucial situations. Any wonder we lost so many 1 run games when we cant get critical pinchhits in the 8th and 9th innings? Its pretty sad when half your BULLPEN hits better than the guys on the end of the bench!

By Doc Holliday

October 23, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Consider yourself lucky that our team have something the Padres could consider taking for Peavy. Remember……..Hudson might……….might………never comeback………he should……….could…………but, you never know. We need to asure an ACE right now. IF Hudson comes back………..that puts us on top of the league. If he doesnt and we dont get Peavy (or another ACE)……….we are in deep trouble.

I can tell you that I read everywhere that James was going to be the next Tom Glavine. That Ramirez was gonna be a 20 game winner. And that Kyle had even better stuff than James. The results were soooooooo bad. That I dont want to wait for Hanson to give us another surprise. Id rather take Peavy, develop Jair and Campillo. Hope Hudson can come back and try bringing Hampton back. That should be good enough. Not to tell that we would still have the money to pay another pitcher, a good bat and Ohman.

By uga-brave

October 23, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

rays are here to stay a while.

pretty darn good looking group of starters.

david price is gonna be a star.

By Roman Gal

October 23, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

I hadn’t seen anyone post it yet, but John Sickels put out his top 20 Braves prospects today.

Here’s the Link-Minorleagueball.com

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 24, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

BAD NEWS… Navojoa center fielder Jordan Schafer left the game due to an injured arm.

Somebody get the info on what happened and serious the injury is to Schafer.

GO BRAVES!!!

By BravesFan79

October 24, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

I like this idea… lets send Kotchman in the trade with prospects, and move Chipper over to 1st since supposidly his shoulder is pretty messed up and he said he isnt going to have surgery.( IM pretty sure im right….hope im wrong tho!)
This could save alot of wear and tear on Chipper.
And then find our power guy in the form of a 3rd baseman. Not my ideal situation, but it would without doubt, keep Chipper in the lineup for more games in 2009.
Chipper could be the next Will Clark. But then who would be at 3rd? I only like Escobar as a temporary solution at 3rd. Hes 2 good a SS to be stuck over at 3rd.

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Excuse me, but I think 1B gets more tearing than 3B. Running up and down every single play thats on the IF and things dont get any easier on bunts and with runners on base.

Let the man stand out as one of the best 3B ever and not as one of the “best all over the place ever”.

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Doc, not saying you’re wrong in saying in thinking that Hanson may not turn out, and not saying you’re wrong in thinking that we should give up Hanson (I have my own personal opinion, but there is no way to test its validity yet). I’m just saying that you shouldn’t use Chuck James, Ho-Ram and Avery as comparisons to him, because those aren’t fair to Hanson and they aren’t really apples-to-apples.

By Roman Gal

October 24, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan Where did you see that he left because of an injured arm?

If it really was an injured arm, it could’ve been because he dove back into 1st base and hurt his shoulder or elbow…but I doubt either of those would be very serious.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

anyone else think wren will start to waver on that $40 million number considering the state of the economy?uga-braves

I asked the CEO that very question two weeks ago, and the question was absolutely not, that the economy would have no effect on Braves plans. “Full speed ahead,” McGuirk said.

You either didn’t see that when I wrote it here, or you don’t believe it (I know how you feel about McGuirk, since you’ve said it enough times). Regardless, you’re not going to believe whatever’s said that contradicts your thoughts on the subject, probably. So I probably shouldn”t have bothered telling you.

But he’s the CEO, not Wren.

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

Ok Steve———- i get your point.

Id say take peavy, he is young winner. A true leader. Hanson is just a “maybe”. as I said before, I would stick to Escobar and Schafer and send Kotchman or JF along with Hanson if they want any of them. I guess the padres dont need a 1B nor a RF. They could move Giles to LF and use JF.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Kentavo, you had to tell me that. The Who’s really in Philly Sunday? Doesn’t do me any good, since the game’s at 8 p.m. Where are they playing? Surely not at the arena where the Sixers play or the Spectrum, because there’s already a World Series game and an NFL game in that four-venue sports complex on Sunday….

dgd: you’re right, Lucinda’s new one is awfully good. Not in a class with “Car Wheels,” but probably better than anything since. At least the equal of “West” last year, which I think I liked more than a lot of others did.

This one’s definitely more rockin’ and upbeat. Personally, I like bummed-out, coming-off-a-bad-relationship Lucinda a lot. If fits her well. But this is a damn fine album. She’s quite the lady….

GSU-Lee: Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Monk, Chet Baker, Cannonball Adderley, Diz, Ella, Joe Henderson, Wynton and Ellis Marsalis….

Among contemporary guys, have you heard Brad Mehldau, particularly his piano versions of Radiohead tunes? Cool stuff. Check this out

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Alright, gotta get a few hours’ sleep and catch a 7:30 a.m. flight. Good stuff today, folks. Thanks for the participation.

By Dan in NJ

October 24, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

Keep the kids.

Sign C.C. and go after Z. Greinke type starter to go along with CC, JJ. That would leave some cash to sign or trade for a bat. Even though its not that important to me. Pitching wins. LOOK at the Rays. WHO are the BIG name hitters??? no Manny, no Papi, no A-rod, and so on, but they are in the series. Braves at least..have Chipper and B-mac and so on. So Spend the cash on pitching. The Braves have enough hitters to score some runs.

Example so far in the series…game 1..3-2 final ? game 2…4-2 final. I’m pretty sure the Braves can score a few runs. NOT sure they have the Ace or 2 to shut the opposing team down though.

By Dan in NJ

October 24, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

1 more thing or two. Remember that potential trade with the Red sox …A.Jones for Lester??? Look at teams such as the Red sox, Rays, Twins, A’s, brewers, and so on. They sign a top notch name here and there…but for the most part they hold on to thier kids and build around them. Kids that have heart , fire, desire, hunger to win. Again lets not try n be like a team such as the yankees but (without thier payroll), gut the farm for 1 player that might not be the answer for the price. CC is worth the price over Peavy…Peavy= contract (15mil.+) plus the farm . C.C.= just a contract(20ish mil.). Grienke= little piece of the farm + frenchy ???? either way I hope you get what i mean.

By braves11p4p

October 24, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

I was watching the game on a internet link and he dove back to 1B on a pickoff attempt and the stupid 1B completely missed the ball and it hit Jordan on the point of the elbow, it didn’t look serious to me but what scared me was that the team trainer inmovilized his arm as they came off he field

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

*Braves at least..have Chipper and B-mac and so on. *

What do you mean “and so on”? “and thats it” sounds more like it.

Sure we have tons of kids with desire………..problem is they are not as talented or bobby puts that fire away. Bring Peavy and send Kotchman and JF packing. Bring Schafer up along with Jones and let Blanco play CF and lead off. BJ could play RF and let anderson be the 4th OF. Trade Diaz for some 1B or let him play 1B along with Prado. Bring some other good arm along with Peavy and we might be rolling.

As long as JF is not around ………..that would be a start.

By the way………Soriano and his mental illness should also go somewhere else.

By That's Mr. Gil to You

October 24, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this

Doc… You’re and idiot….

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2009)

October 24, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

The rumblings out of Florida have Scott Olsen on the trading block. I think he could be had rather easily. The Marlins would probably want nothing more than one prospect in return.

Olsen will make 30 plus starts and eat 200 plus innings and pitch well, but the southpaw gives up tons of HR’s. He is just 24 and arbitration eligible.

Dan Uggla is also an intriguing player to consider. The second baseman is all offense (32 HR’s 92 RBI) but not the ideal defensive glove man up the middle.

As it is, half the Marlins roster is up for arbitration and with their tight budget, the fish are going to be busy swapping players this off season.

By uga-brave

October 24, 2008 3:05 AM | Link to this

DOB,

actually i did not see or read that. that is good to hear. i hope that is the case.

so we now have “full speed ahead” from McQuirk.

we also have ” i promise this will not happen again” from francouer.

forgive me from being a skeptic.

“we are finacially sound.” from bob steel, CEO of wachovia. this one week before they needed a bailout.

i could give you a quote from franklin raines CEO of fannie mae or stan o’ neal the ceo of merrill lynch. but what is the point.

trust has gone out the door. not saying the braves wont spend that money, but words have been cheap lately.

either way i would love to see the braves make a play for a.j. burnett.

pair him with peavy at the top and i would have no problem if the braves do not overpay a free agent outfielder.

i would have no interest in pat the bat, ibanez, or dunn.

get those pitchers at the top and everything else would probably work out.

By uga-brave

October 24, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

DOB,

good luck in philly. sunday should be interesting up there with the falcons at the linc at 1, and the phills at home that night.

lots of yuengling going to be consumed in eastern pa. that day.

couple that with penn st. playing o.s.u. the night before and i think you have all the makings of a great sports weekend in the quaker state.

By faninFaytown

October 24, 2008 3:29 AM | Link to this

im just going to go out on a limb because im feelin a little crazy… frenchy will hit 25 dingers and have we’ll say 115 ribbys next year.. hovering around the .285 range. he will be right back to normal

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2009)

October 24, 2008 4:09 AM | Link to this

Scott Olsen and Dan Uggla for Jo-Jo Reyes, Kelly Johnson and cash.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Lefty for lefty and second sacker for the same. The Marlins avoid paying for two arbitration eligible players and get cash to cover KJ’s salary for 2009.

Then again, maybe this proposed trade would be to simple.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

Dallas, believe what you want regarding Peavy. You read one guy’s opinion (Law’s) about Peavy’s stuff “diminishing” and believe it? Have you seen others — scouts, opponents, etc — say that, either on or off the record? I haven’t. I saw that his fastball velocity has actually risen in recent years, for what it’s worth…

Here is an article that gives some examples of why it may be reasonable to believe Peavy has hit his peak.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

Jayson Stark has an article on espn.com about the Rays scoring runs on outs in Game Two. Interesting piece because that something that comes up a lot here.

But let’s look closely. The Rays scored two runs, each on groundouts, in the first inning. That was after the first two hitters of the inning reached base…two on, nobody out.

In the Bottom of the Fourth the scored on a safety squeeze, again after the first two hitters of the innings reached base.

No matter the end play that scored the runs, baserunners were obviously necessary.

I’m not denying the importance of contact outs in the Rays’ win. But the vital part of making contact outs matter was getting runners on.

If given a choice, you no doubt take guys who can make contact over guys who don’t. But most importantly you have to have guys who get on base because without baserunners those contact outs are harmful.

By Efrim

October 24, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun

While I am not disagreeing with you, or the author’s assessment, do you really think the Braves front office will shy away from Peavy because of a .90 decline in K rate? I think they should keep it in mind, and they shouldn’t offer up the package that was rumored(Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar, Tommy Hanson and Jordan Schafer), but I still think he is worth trading for…..

As long as the price isn’t too steep.

I think you are in the same boat as me. But nonetheless, very interesting article and the post is much appreciated.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Efrim, as the article says, “A loss of a strikeout every game isn’t the end of the world in isolation, but when it’s combined with a simultaneous increase in walk rate and home run rate, like we see in the last two charts, it’s cause for concern.”

Yeah, I don’t think Peavy is destined to become a Barry Zito or anything. He’s still going to be a good pitcher and probably even great in some of his remaining years. But I don’t think he’s a surefire perennial Cy Young candidate for the remainder of his contract, like he has been basically over the past six seasons.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Dan IN NJ-As I remember things with the Andruw situation, the trade involving Lester was in the minds of the blog and fans only. I’m pretty sure the Sox wouldn’t include him at the time and then his cancer hit.

Doc-It’s been a while, Dude. Kind of doubt the Braves are going to go through the massive upheaval and complete restructuring of the team you would prefer. I’m kind of doubting Frenchy is going anywhere, because most (yourself and a few bloggers notwithstanding) seem to think he will be much improved over his 08 performance. I also doubt they will get a significantly different bench and they aren’t going to dump Kotchman, either.

What we will see is exactly what Wren has promised he will do-get two starting pitchers with ML experience and get a power hitting outfielder. That alone is more than enough for any one Human to accomplish. It really is humorous how so many think a complete restructuring of the team is in the cards. It won’t happen and it shouldn’t happen. Our main problems the last few years have more to do with pitching injuries and ineffectiveness than any other aspect of the game. Adding a couple of proven starters should significantly deal with that. Changing your entire outfield and 3/4 of your infield just won’t happen.

Baseball aside-It hit under 20 degrees here last night. It is already way too cold. The dog likes it, though, but he has a lot more hair than I do.

By Richie

October 24, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

I would do Reyes for Olsen swap. I wouldnt want any part of Uggla. A 170K’s is WAY too much for me, couple that with Frenchy’s 100+ K’s and that is too many for me to sit through. I’d take Willingham instead of Uggla. Willingham strikes a bunch as well but I have watched some of Uggla’s ABs and some of them are down right horrible. And I just can’t sit thru a game watching him and Francoeur swing at everything.

By Richie

October 24, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

I would do Reyes for Olsen swap. I wouldnt want any part of Uggla. A 170K’s is WAY too much for me, couple that with Frenchy’s 100+ K’s and that is too many for me to sit through. I’d take Willingham instead of Uggla. Willingham strikes a bunch as well but I have watched some of Uggla’s ABs and some of them are down right horrible. And I just can’t sit thru a game watching him and Francoeur swing at everything from the dirt to their foreheads.

By kdbanks

October 24, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

DOB -

Glad you went to Wyatt’s. It’s in my neighborhood, Kirkwood, right near the famous Anne’s Snack Shack. It’s exactly the type of place you drive by and say “I bet their BBQ is awesome.” And it is.

Have fun in Philly. I’m going to check out the new Ella Guru location tomorrow and blows some of my paycheck. Can’t wait!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

cabravesfan I am with you there- would like nothing more then to see our boy with a world series ring

Oh! I can’t tell you how much I want to see that!

I wanna see ‘im hit somewhere around that .287, with a few RBI and that 2-run double! Would love a homer, but I’d take the double with no problem!

Ah, yeah…Someday I see that dream coming true…the Braves will Win It All…I cann see our pitcher closing out the Final Game, and BMac runs up to him and jumps in his arms like Greg Olsen did in 1991 when they clinched (my Grandparents have that picture hanging in their basement)…the rest of the players run wildly out of the dugout and from their field positions…they pile on top of our battery! I’m already getting goose-bumps!

[sigh] Oh yeah. Someday…

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Lew The dog likes it, though, but he has a lot more hair than I do.

Forgive me—I know I’ve asked this before—but what kind of dog do you have?

Also, how’s your bird been?

By Efrim

October 24, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Buster Olney this morning:

Tommy Hanson was something of a robot as an amateur ballplayer. The coaches that he played for selected pitches for him, sending along signals through catchers who relayed the signs to Hanson, and it was Hanson’s assignment to nod and throw. He was not asked to think for himself on the mound, to develop a rationale and a philosophy, to read the swings and body language of hitters.

But in 2008, Hanson’s third season in pro ball after being drafted in the 22nd round by the Atlanta Braves in 2005, he really began to think about pitch selection — why he would throw a particular pitch in a particular situation. “I had never really called my own game before,” he said on Thursday night, from Arizona. “I realized the importance of being able to command my pitches. It had never really clicked before.”

Fueled by that emotional investment, Hanson has taken a major step forward in 2008, into the ranks of the elite prospects in baseball, right into the middle of the Jake Peavy trade talks. The Braves want Peavy, and the Padres would like Hanson to be part of any deal for Peavy.

But Hanson’s improvement this year has increased the likelihood that he won’t be traded, maybe to the point of stalling the negotiations. Hanson has had three excellent outings in the Arizona Fall League, allowing one hit and walking just three in 8 1/3 innings, while striking out 14. This, after Hanson went 11-5 with a 2.41 ERA in 138 innings in Class A and Double-A during the summer, with 163 strikeouts and 52 walks. “He’s dominant,” said a rival talent evaluator. “And at every level, he just keeps getting better. Completely dominant. In fact, I’d be shocked if the Braves would ever consider trading him, because he could be a No. 1 type starter.”

That doesn’t mean that a Peavy deal can’t happen. What the Padres could do is this: They could tell the Braves, Look, we know you love Hanson, and Jason Heyward, and Jair Jurrjens. You can keep those guys and still make a deal with us, and think about it — you could go into next year with a rotation of Peavy, Jurrjens, Hanson, and maybe John Smoltz and Tom Glavine and whoever else you have. You could have a lineup of Brian McCann and Chipper Jones and a 27-year-old Cy Young Award winner fronting your rotation.

But this is Jake Peavy, one of the best pitchers in baseball. If you’re not going to give up Heyward, Hanson or Jurrjens, well, you’ve got to give us a high volume package that works for us, too. Trading Peavy is going to hurt us, and so it’s got to hurt you. We need Jordan Schaefer in the deal, and we need Charlie Morton — your best young major league pitcher not named Jurrjens — in the deal. We know you might value Yunel Escobar over Kelly Johnson, but Escobar is the better player and we probably need him, too. The Braves have enough prospects to create a middle ground, say rival evaluators. We’ll see if Atlanta and the Padres haggle to the point that they can find that middle ground.

No one is telling Hanson anything about any trade discussions going on, and, he says, “I understand all that stuff. It’s not like I’m worried about it.”

Hanson just keeps on pitching, keeps learning, keeps getting better. He feels like he’s throwing his curveball and slider well, and is working on his changeup in Arizona, refining it, throwing it on the inner half of the plate. “I just want to keep getting better with all of my pitches,” he said. “Whether the Braves call me up at any point next season, or if I make the team out of spring training, I don’t want to worry about it. I’m not going to worry about that.”

He’ll be in the big leagues soon, somewhere.

By TommyP

October 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Dan in NJ: I agreed with just about every point in your posts. We think alike.

Lew: Question on something you said earlier.

“What we will see is exactly what Wren has promised he will do-get two starting pitchers with ML experience…”

You SURE he said “ML experience”? ‘Cause I sure get the feeling we’re going to make a strong push for that Japanese pitcher. (Takawa????)

Would the Marlins deal within the division????

Whomever mentioned Scott Olsen….the question is do the Braves feel he’s a “Braves-type” player?

The Braves and Bulldogs/Mark Richt are very similar in eliminating certain types from their team concept.

Olsen has been involved in fights with teammates over the years (Miguel Cabrera, Messenger and Mitre) and last year got a DUI and RESISTING ARREST. Police used a stun gun on the idiot.

I’m pretty sure with that rap sheet we can rule Olsen out.

As far as Josh Johnson or Nolasco (I’d be shocked if Fla. dealt him despite being up for arbitration) being combined with an OF (Willingham, Hermida and Cody Ross all up for arb.), I like the idea.

By Patrick

October 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, ever listen to some of Pat Metheny’s stuff? He’s got some GREAT tunes to listen to.

In regards to Peavy, I think if we were to deal Schafer and Hanson, I honestly think it’d be worth it. Deal for Peavy, sign Lowe maybe, and then we could be set for next season and beyond. If we can keep Yunel and Kelly, I feel it’d be for the best.

Any talk of Brandon Jones being involved possibly?

By Baseball 101

October 24, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Shaun again: No matter the end play that scored the runs, baserunners were obviously necessary.

I’m not denying the importance of contact outs in the Rays’ win. But the vital part of making contact outs matter was getting runners on.

No matter the end play? If the end play was unsuccessful, then the base runners were rendered moot, weren’t they? The outcome of the end play has a DIRECT bearing on whether or not the base runners were “obviously necessary”, or simply moot.

The direct physical act of scoring a run is most valuable because you have achieved an objective of the game.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

BTW—Thanks, Rays!! Boy, you guys really needed that win before headin’ to Filly!

I had a feeling the Rays could beat Myers. I mean, come on, the Braves beat him twice this year! He’s pretty easy to beat, even if he does own Francoeur…

Stay warm, Lew! You, too, DOB!

By Lew

October 24, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

McFann-He’s a Border Retriever-his father is a Border Collie and his Mother is a Golden Retriever. He looks like a Black and White Golden Retriever.

The Bird is fine, but has PMS-Parrot Moulting Syndrome. She’s not real happy right now.

BTW-Don’t know if anyone out there in blogland ties their own flies for Fly Fishing, but I know several people who do. I send them parrot feathers. Apparently the various greens mimick a Mayfly that trout love. If anyone does tie their own and wants some great feathers, let me know. I’d be glad to send them some from my Quaker Parrot.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

TommyP-I think he said Experienced pitchers. I’ll check one of my back issues of Chop Talk later today (The House Wren has a monthly column) and I’ll let you know later about the exact quote. I myself wonder about the Japanese connection. A pitcher from that side of the world who never went pro in the Japanese leagues (and hence won’t take a Dice K figure for negotiation rights) may well be on Frank’s radar-wouldn’t surprise me anyway.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Baseball 101, right. Baserunners don’t guarantee scoring (see the Phillies so far this series), but you can’t score without a baserunner, which by definition makes getting on base vitally important to scoring. Without baserunners contact outs are rendered meaningless.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Lew—

Border Collie! That’s right! I bet he’s a beautiful dog!

The Bird is fine, but has PMS-Parrot Moulting Syndrome. She’s not real happy right now.

Oh dear! Poor thing! Petey was molting a little bit, but he doesn’t seem to be anymore.

Lately he’s been screaming his little head off. We thought it was because it was sunny, but it’s rainy now, and he’s still yelling. (STOP IT, Bird!!)

By Don

October 24, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

With our Pitching Coach, Peavy could be only a few games away from the Tommy John knife (especially with this delivery). It may not be the fault of the P.C. but how many pitchers must go down before this is conisered to be probabilty. Anyway, a change should be made - just in case. Otherwise - keep the prospects — we could give up significant talent and have the probility of ending up with nothing to show for it.

By Don

October 24, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

With our Pitching Coach, Peavy could be only a few games away from the Tommy John knife (especially with this delivery). It may not be the fault of the P.C. but how many pitchers must go down before this is conisered to be probabilty. Anyway, a change should be made - just in case. Otherwise - keep the prospects — we could give up significant talent and have the probility of ending up with nothing to show for it.

By Don

October 24, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

With our Pitching Coach, Peavy could be only a few games away from the Tommy John knife (especially with this delivery). It may not be the fault of the P.C. but how many pitchers must go down before this is conisered to be probabilty. Anyway, a change should be made - just in case. Otherwise - keep the prospects — we could give up significant talent and have the probility of ending up with nothing to show for it.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

I think that if the package were Schafer, Morton and Yunel, I might just have to go along with it. I don’t really want to see Yunel go bye bye, but you have to give something of value to get something of value. Not too sure how we would replace Yunel, but a rotation of Peavy, Lowe (speculative, of course), Jurrjens, Campillo and Hampton, later joined by Hanson, is a winner-at the very least, the best rotation in our division (keeping in mind that the Mets and Phillies will make changes this winter, as well).

By rammerjammer

October 24, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Efrim, thanks for the Olney post. Much food for thought.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Baseball 101, contact outs are all fine and dandy…if there is at least one baserunner and less than two outs. But a baserunner is essential to scoring. It’s really as simple as that.

The point is a team must build it’s offense around on-base ability and slugging ability first and foremost. Contact is great and I prefer it over no contact, all things being equal. But on-base and slugging ability are the essentials to a good offense.

By Patrick

October 24, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

I like this:

P: Peavy P: Lowe P: Jurrjens P: Smoltz P: Glavine P: Reyes/Hanson/Morton/whoever doesn’t get dealt/Campillo

CL: Gonzalez

By Efrim

October 24, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

I could see why the Padres want Escobar with Matt Antonelli in their system(he plays 2nd so there wouldn’t be a need for Johnson). I’d try and offer Locke or Rohrbough plus Flowers instead of Schafer. So Johnson, Morton, Flowers and Locke. Like Buster said, maybe they find middle ground.

Peavy, Jurrjens, Hanson……

Go Braves.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Patrick-Dude, I would sincerely doubt that Smoltz will be returning as a starter-if at all. Make your plans without him or Glavine. The Braves are.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

MLBPA just announced Pujols is Players’ Choice Player of the Year (they only pick one for all the majors), and Michael Young is the Marvin Miller Man of the Year.

By N8

October 24, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Even if it means NOT having Jake Peavy and forgoing a possible playoff run in 2009, the more I read about Hanson and what scouts and so-called “pundits” are saying about him, there is ZERO chance he should be included in a trade for Peavy.

As Buster Olney stated (saying that it still might be possible for the Braves to acquire Peavy WITHOUT giving up Hanson, JJJ or Heyward), we might be better off giving up a QUANTITY package of good players than giving up one of the big-three guys mentioned.

Think about it. If Hanson is actually ready to contribute next year, and we had a rotation that had Peavy, JJJ and Hanson in it, that would make the team pretty damn competitive regardless of the lineup.

Then with the remaining money that Wren has to spend, he could get “stop-gaps” at the everyday positions until Heyward and Gorkys are ready to play.

Especially if Kahlil Green is included (with Escobar going the other way). Obviously, I’d rather have Yunel, but what’s a better “combination”…

Yunel and say….Mike Hampton. Or Green and Peavy?

It’s hard to say which way I’d lean. It’s all “monopoly money” to me, so the monetary angle is hard for us, as fans, to actually grasp.

I just hope when the Braves head to DarkStar that JJJ, Hanson, and Heyward are all still property of the Braves…..if that happens and Peavy is on board as well, it will have been a good off-season for Wren.

By Serge45

October 24, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

DOB - If you dig North Mississippi Allstars, check out their live album “Hill Country Review.” I had heard good things and went to see them while at Bonnaroo and they were the best act I saw all weekend. Then they went out and released it as an album. They just rock the first few tracks and have a great one, Boomer’s Story, on there with Chris Robinson on vocals.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

N8, I can say with near certainty, in fact WITH certainty, that the Braves will go to Dark Star with Jurrjens, Heyward and Hanson in tow. They’re not trading those guys, Mac, Teheran…. and probably a couple other youngsters. But certainly not any of those five.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Morning from chilly Philly….

Sat beside the Sixers’ Theo Ratliff on the plane. Seemed like a nice fella. He’s 6-10, so his knees took up every inch of space in his first-class seat (I got upgraded)….

UGA-brave, sorry, but I’m really failing to see the connection between the Braves (or any finanancially successful pro sports franchise) and Fannie Mae and Wachovia. That’s more than a stretch, my man….

Coach: I agree the Marlins, with all their arb-eligibles, could be a place the Braves go to fill one of their needs through trade. However, Reyes and Kelly for Olsen and Uggla? Why would the Marlins do that?

Reyes has been a disappointment so far and has questions about his mental approach and toughness, and Kelly’s productive but very streaky.

Olsen pitched over 200 innings this season and has twice posted double-digit wins, and Uggla was an All-Star (deserving or not) this season and has 112 doubles, 90 homers and 270 RBI in three seasons in the majors.

You really think the Marlins would do that deal?

kdbanks: Tell Don at Ella Guru that you’re a denizen. He might give you a discount or something. But with his expenses in the move and all, I doubt it….

Don (not the one at Ella Guru): Right, fire the pitching coach — just in case. Good idea. I’m sure the Braves will get right on that if they finalize the trade for Peavy.

Patrick: Pat Metheny’s obviously hugely talented and has legions of followers. But I’m not one of them. Not my cup of tea.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

N8,

While I do agree with your assessment of the current Peavy situation, I think you are missnig 2 other pieces of the off-season puzzle.

Wren said he wanted 2 starting pitchers and a power hitting OF.

If they end the off-season and head into spring training with a rotation of… oh say…

Peavy JJJ AJ Burnett Hampton Hanson

and instead of a “stop gap” in the OF they add a guy like Pat Burrell (for example) I would consider that a successful off-season.

And for those of you “Pat the Bat” haters…. the guy hits between 25-30 homers a season and drives in between 90-110. Sure he hits .265-.280 but thats better than some of the guys we have with the same batting average and less power.

Plus he KILLS the Mets…. can you imagine Burrell and Chipper next year just killing the mets for 18 games?

By ccrider

October 24, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

I hope Frank Wren sticks to his statement. No Hanson, Heyward, Schafer, Freeman, Teheran. Oh, by the way, Why is it Escobar and Jurjjens are lumped in with the above as prospects. Our Starting shortstop and best starting pitcher are not prospects. I see after the initial relief of hearing Frank Wren’s reaffirmation that we won’t trade our top prospects, everyone is again talking about TRADING OUR TOP PROSPECTS! GUYS, either Frank W. is telling the truth(I HOPE) or he’s as crazy as the rest of the writers, Mystery Sources and other armchair GM’s around the country. We have plenty of A- and B+ prospects that we can trade instead of our A+ propsects. Guys that are blocked(Flowers, Prado, Lillibridge, B. Jones, Gorky-by Schafer) or need more time to develop(Reyes, Morton, Parr, Redmond,Diamond, Rohrborough, Medlin, Locke). It’s a win-win situation, the Padres get a few more players in the package and the Braves keep the players they need to continue their path back to contention. I guarantee that people would include Flowers, Gorky, Prado, Morton and Rohrborough as higly desirable prospects, just not the Big named prospects that the pundits decided are the only ones worth trading for. The business of the Padres having to sell it to their fans is a joke. Trading Peavy and down sizing the payroll is going to upset fans way more than what prospects they think they are gettng back. This can be done without as Buster Olney( YOU KNOw one of the guys saying that it would have to include our very top prospects) is saying getting hurt by the trade. Frank Wren is showing the patience to make it on terms that benefit both teams and is able to put our team in contention this coming season and for seasons to come!

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

N8, I can say with near certainty that the Braves will go to Dark Star with Jurrjens, Heyward and Hanson in tow. They’re not trading those guys, Mac, Teheran…. and probably a couple other youngsters. But certainly not any of those five.

Just got off the phone with Frank Wren, by the way. I’ll put some stuff in a new blog in a while when I go out to the ballpark. Nothing major, just some clarification, that kind of thing.

By Baseball 101

October 24, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun: But a baserunner is essential to scoring. It’s really as simple as that.

The action of the batter is even more essential to the objective of the game- if the batter fails, the base runner is moot.

By flange1

October 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Does Frank Wren read the blog?

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I guess a few months ago i really had no idea how special Hanson is going to be. We need to start a nice core of young starting pitching. Of course, Jurrjens along with Hanson is a great start.:)

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Flange1

well we know some players do like moylan.

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

As Kevin Towers and Barry Axelrod intended, things are slowing down on the Jake Peavy front. The Braves, considered the favorite, got the word out yesterday through the AP that they do not want to trade top prospects. Of course, that may have been a strategic move td

again where is the competition? I have not read of a concrete offering with specific names from other teams. All the hype was created mostly by the Braves (so far). lol and we were voting on what yesterday? Hanson,kj,schafer? no thanks

By Bay Area Steve

October 24, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

scoots,

Tell me I didn’t read a third-person reference from you.

I’ll try to forgive, but we may have to set up a kangaroo-court or something.

By mbatl

October 24, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Wow, the NY Post reports that the Dodgers have offered Manny 2 years, $60 mil. (they state it as fact, not as rumor). But they say there is no way Boras/Manny will accept it.

I don’t get it… Boras would be doing well to get THREE years/$60 mil, much less to get it in two years. Manny would still have a chance for yet another contract in 2 years. Also, a $30 mil annual salary would do a lot to “bump” the ceiling on annual pay for players.

I have a hard time believing the offer was made, or that it will be turned down, but that’s what the article says. (here)[http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242008/sports/moresports/philsgrumpoverumps135022.htm]

By N8

October 24, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the re-assurance about the “trio”.

If that is the case, I really don’t “care” too much about the other prospects that may be involved with the Peavy trade. Though I still worry (a little) about taking on such a big contract - even though it is under fair market value - for a pitcher with such a heavy workload the past few seasons.

But make no mistake about it, a healthy Peavy would be a god-send for this organization, as long as the cost isn’t any of those three guys.

At this point, having Gorkys waiting in the lower levels, I’d even include Jordan in the deal to get it done.

Buffalo NY Braves Fan

I didn’t forget about Wren saying he wanted TWO pitchers to be added. Just forgot to add that to the list of things he could spend the “surplus” of cash on.

That being said, the addition of Peavy (while keeping Hanson and JJJ in the fold), would be SUCH a plus, provided he remains healthy, that the “2nd” pitcher added via free agency/trade wouldn’t have to be such a stud. More of a reliable innings eater with around a 4.00 - 4.50 ERA.

I expect Hanson to have a pretty big role next year. Maybe not out of spring training, but that being said with him pitching in the AFL, we can’t really expect any more than what JJJ gave us (in terms of innings). He will hit a wall at some point.

In a perfect world, he hits the wall around the time that Hudson would come back. Provided Hudson comes back next year at all.

As for Burrell? I’m not so sure he is the “right” guy to have in LF with Francoeur being the other OF. That’s 2/8 of our everyday eight that don’t get on base enough for me.

If Francoeur would either rebound (or be traded), then Burrell would be a perfect fit for the middle of the order. He’s a hacker, that while is very streaky, his numbers always seem to be there at the end. Francoeur is streaky and the past two seasons he hasn’t put up the numbers.

THAT being said. If Wren went ALL OUT at shoring up the rotation, say for instance:

Acquiring Peavy, signing Burnnett, re-signing Hampton (at a reasonable rate), and re-tained both JJJ and Hanson (along with Campillo and maybe Glavine and Hudson), along with strengthening the bullpen, that would fit right into the “Bobby” style of ball…

Pitching, defense and the three run HR.

The only question is whether Burrell is good enough defensively to fit that bill. Not to mention if Escobar is in the Peavy deal, who plays SS?

The next few weeks sure are gonna be fun, though.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Flange1, yes, he does quite often.

By Shaun

October 24, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Baseball 101, right. And there is no worse failure than your batters failing to get on base. Batters fail to do that, 0 percent chance of scoring. A team can hit groundballs and deep flyballs that would score a run from third all day. But unless the team gets a baserunner first, those grounders and flyballs do nothing but cost the team outs. Again, it’s as simple as that. You can’t build an offense around guys who hit would-be RBI grounders and fly balls. You have to build it around on-base and slugging guys.

By THB

October 24, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

I don’t know why we’re so ready to give up Schafer since we have Gorkys. I guess the Padres would want Schafer because he’s superior in every part of the game except speed - and Schafer isn’t far behind at all, he’s really, really fast. Gorkys has all the “tools” to be great, but his plate discipline is not close to Schafer’s, his on-base are inferior, his power doesn’t compare, and his defense isn’t quite on the same level as Schafer’s.

I really hope Gorkys is rated higher than Schafer right now because the Padres might want him instead.

By Brian

October 24, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

N Nine- What if it came down to Hanson and maybe Hernandez and Morton to get it done? I’d have a hard time turning that down. Could Wren have a plan in saying all this just to make the Padres view a trade without Hanson,Schafer, etc. different? It might work cause seriously as of right now, who else is gonna offer much more than that?

By Original Jon

October 24, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Ok, so if Frank W reads the blog quite often, I just want to say a few things. First off, Frank, I sure hope you dont feel like it was your fault that the Braves lost 90 games this year, because it was not your fault at all, so dont pay any attention to these people calling for yours and Bobby’s head because the TEAM failed. IMHO, you did everything you possible could to insure this team would be competitive. Second, Please do not trade Hanson, Heyward or Schafer, we will really need these guys down the road, and THird, keep up the good work, being a GM isnt as easy as half these people here think it is.

Have a nice day.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Flange1 Does Frank Wren read the blog?

DOB yes, he does quite often.

He DOES???

By Brian

October 24, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Well after that comment about FW reading this blog, you gotta think Steve and the rest of the “don’t trade Hanson” bunch is feelin cocky right about now! Who knows, it could of had a small effect on the boss. I doubt it though!

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

THB:

Yeah, I’m loath to give up Schafer, and I hope that we’re able to package Gorkys instead…but I’d rather give up Schafer than Hanson at this point. I’m hopeful that we keep Schafer and give him a truly fair shot to win the starting CF job out of ST.

I am so glad that FW has clarified his position on trading the prospects. I was seriously freaking when I read Johnson/Hanson/Schafer, lol.

Efrim:

Liked your proposal at 10:42, but I would try to sub Gorkys and JoJo for Morton. Think the Pads would go for that?

Anyone wanna take bets on when Olney will finally learn how to spell “Schafer?” My money’s on when he makes his big-league debut.

By N8

October 24, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

THB

In a perfect world, Schafer is in CF next year FOR THE BRAVES, Peavy is acquired, along with JJJ and Hanson in the rotation.

I’m not ready to give up Schafer just yet.

I’m just saying of JJJ, Hanson, Heyward and Schafer, I’d give up Schafer to get Peavy.

If NONE of those guys have to be in the trade, then I’m right there with you. LOL!

But come on. You don’t think we’re gonna get Peavy for the same pizz poor prospects that we got McGriff or Hudson for, do you?

Not gonna happen.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

McFann, glad you posted, reminded me that I saw a T-shirt while ago at a downtown Philly store and it made me think of you. It was red and had a Phillies logo on it with this slogan in big letters: “The Thrill of Victorino!”

By BravesFanInRockies

October 24, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

THB,

I don’t think the Braves are giving up Schafer at all. He just happens to be a top prospect playing a position the Pads need who is considered ready for the major league level. He (rather than Hanson or Yunel/KJ) would be considered the cornerstone of the deal, with other prospects included.

Hernandez, by all accounts, needs another full season in the minors.

There are a number of moving parts, to be sure. For instance, if KJ or Yunel is in the deal, then Hernandez might go instead; or a lesser-regarded OF like Brandon Jones might be included.

Fun, ain’t it?

By Baseball 101

October 24, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun again: Baseball 101, right. And there is no worse failure than your batters failing to get on base. Batters fail to do that, 0 percent chance of scoring. A team can hit groundballs and deep flyballs that would score a run from third all day. But unless the team gets a baserunner first, those grounders and flyballs do nothing but cost the team outs. Again, it’s as simple as that. You can’t build an offense around guys who hit would-be RBI grounders and fly balls. You have to build it around on-base and slugging guys.

How does this convo get turned around like this? The convo was about what was more valuable during the two specific offensive situations you mentioned from last night’s game - NOT as an overall convo as to how to construct an offense.

Again - you said: No matter the end play that scored the runs, baserunners were obviously necessary.

There is an inherent fallacy in this statement, which I was merely pointing out. The end play DOES matter, because, if unsuccessful, the base runners become moot instead of “obviously necessary”.

By THB

October 24, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Steve: Think a good start to a trade would be Morton, Gorkys, Flowers, Locke, and Hicks?

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Brian:

I hope I don’t have too much of an effect on FW! I mean, after all, I’m just some guy typing on my laptop…and he’s the GM of a multi-million dollar organzation. I’m sure he knows a hell of a lot more about this whole deal than me, lol.

By ncscoots

October 24, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

I’ll try to forgive, but we may have to set up a kangaroo-court or something.

BASteve, a moment of weakness, not soon to be repeated, LOL.

By cameron

October 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

** Frank Wren,

Go to the Padres and try to get Jake Peavy, Kahlil Greene, AND Adrian Gonzalez, Please. Kotchman and 2-3 other low prospects added to the prospects we send for Peavy should do it to get Gonzalez. Give what it takes to get that deal done without giving up Heyward. I love that we have all of those great prospects we have but we need to get that done. Go out and sign Adam Dunn, and Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett with all the money you have. And if you can do it without giving up much, go to the Tampa Bay Rays and get one of thier young pitchers(Jackson/Sonnanstine) because they have to many pitchers as it is. Think of that Rotation and Lineup:

Rotation!
1. Jake Peavy
2. Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Edwin Jackson/Andy Sonnanstine
5. Mike Hampton



Lineup!
1. Josh Anderson
2. Kelly Johnson
3. Chipper Jones
4. Adam Dunn
5. Adrian Gonzalez
6. Brian McCann
7. Jeff Francoeur
8. Kahlil Greene
9. Jake Peavy




That team right there is a sure thing to be in the World Series, and would be pretty much a sure thing to WIN the World Series.

Do what you can Frank, If you cant get Gonzalez then ok. But please try to get Dunn, Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett, and trade for Jackson/Sonnanstine.

By cameron

October 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

** Frank Wren,

Go to the Padres and try to get Jake Peavy, Kahlil Greene, AND Adrian Gonzalez, Please. Kotchman and 2-3 other low prospects added to the prospects we send for Peavy should do it to get Gonzalez. Give what it takes to get that deal done without giving up Heyward. I love that we have all of those great prospects we have but we need to get that done. Go out and sign Adam Dunn, and Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett with all the money you have. And if you can do it without giving up much, go to the Tampa Bay Rays and get one of thier young pitchers(Jackson/Sonnanstine) because they have to many pitchers as it is. Think of that Rotation and Lineup:

Rotation!
1. Jake Peavy
2. Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Edwin Jackson/Andy Sonnanstine
5. Mike Hampton



Lineup!
1. Josh Anderson
2. Kelly Johnson
3. Chipper Jones
4. Adam Dunn
5. Adrian Gonzalez
6. Brian McCann
7. Jeff Francoeur
8. Kahlil Greene
9. Jake Peavy




That team right there is a sure thing to be in the World Series, and would be pretty much a sure thing to WIN the World Series.

Do what you can Frank, If you cant get Gonzalez then ok. But please try to get Dunn, Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett, and trade for Jackson/Sonnanstine.**

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

THB:

If that’s the proposal on the table, where do I sign?

Of course, I’m very cheap, so I may haggle on Locke (think he’s got a very bright future ahead of him), but I would definitely do that.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Ah man, DOB! I gotta get me one of those!!

; ) That’s hilarious!

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

I’m just saying of JJJ, Hanson, Heyward and Schafer, I’d give up Schafer to get Peavy N8

couldn’t agree more as long as the “trio” is untouched i’m ok with having Schafer as the centerpiece since Wren stole Gorkys (from Detriot as a “throw in” with jurrjens). We are stocked in low level minors an can package a good enough deal without the Big 3.

So Brian, no I wouldn’t yet since Hanson was brought up

cameron I addressed the Adrian Gonzalez idea few days ago and DOB made it clear to us that won’t happen. I like Gonzalez but Kotchman is our mann.

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

! I gotta get me one of those!!

I’m no expert but if the guy brings up nightmares i would not want to own me one..just a thought McFann for your own sake!

By Dack Jerrick

October 24, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

You get this level of umpiring when you allow the Umpires Union to assign them instead of MLB/Managers/GMs as it should be. Who’s a worse umpire than Kerwin Dannelly? Gary Garling, John Davidson. OK, OK maybe a few but he’s among the worst. You put these marginal umps out there and you get the really bad calls. The “no balk” call on a laughably obvious balk. The “you’re out” oh no let’s appeal call. Which is worse, the fact that the batter was called out and then the call appealed or the fact that the first base ump got the appeal call wrong? These Union assigned umps damage the reputation of everybody involved in MLB, including the umpires. The top-rated umps who’re watching this at home on TV are surely humiliated. It makes the good umps look baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

By DAP

October 24, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

richie dan uggla strikes out a lot. Who cares? His .360 OBP says that his strikeouts don’t matter, and if he hit 30 homers, hed be exactly the kind of outfielder we need-at 2nd base. That means we can afford to have a leftfielder who hits 15 homers with a high average instead of power hitter only. If uggla can be had, he needs to be gotten.

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

If uggla can be had, he needs to be gotten DAP

even better! Since power was lacking late in season and against a rival. We might have to if KJ is traded for peavy

By TommyP

October 24, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Oh geez….now we’re going to get all these “Dear Frank” letters. LOL

Reminds me when I was around 12 years old and I wrote Hank Peters of Baltimore.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Yeah, I was just joking. A better shirt for me to have would be one that says, “Fear the Reaper!”

I’m no expert but if the guy brings up nightmares…

I also had one where he became a pitcher, and while pitching against McCann, he threw one a little high and tight…

By rammerjammer

October 24, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

I like Uggla’s attitude. A bulldog.

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Flange1, yes, he does quite often DOB

DOB Just a thought, We setup a featured guest and have someone like Wren join in for a hour. I know Wren is busy but since he visits us often… It would be fun!.. Kind of changing it up like Tim Dierkes did with his site recently.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Jamie Moyer is in the interview room now, and someone just pointed out to him that Evan Longoria was 8 months old when Moyer made his major league debut.

“It’s kind of weird to think about it,” Moyer said.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Someone just asked Moyer about the Phillies’ 1-for-28 (god, that’s amazing) with runners in scoring position, if he could analyze that. He said, “They’re behind me. I have no idea. I’m moving forward.”

Well, then.

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I like Uggla’s attitude. A bulldog

You got that right a doggie running around finding that lost ball…oyy

By cameron

October 24, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Do any of yall think the Braves should go to the Rays and ask for one of thier young pitchers. I mean they have..

James Shields
Scott Kazmir
Edwin Jackson
David Price
Matt Garza
Andy Sonnanstine

By cameron

October 24, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

You know the Braves used to be really good. They had a lot of known players, now if you look at the depth chart, its like they have a hole everywhere. The only names that look like they need to be there is: C McCann, 3B Jones, RF Francoeur, CL Gonzalez. You know know which will be traded of Johnson or Escobar and they are young, LF and CF are busts, you have one good pitcher in Jurrjens. This team looks like a team that needs to just take about 2 years and rebuild. I hate saying that because i HATE watching the braves lose. But this team just looks really bad.

By keylargo

October 24, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

McFann

I have been meaning to tell you I had a flock of Rosetta Spoonbills land in the water and feed up close to the shoreline at my house. This is not a bird that you would ever see up in Atlanta but they are beautiful. If you would like to see one, google it. They are rare (I only see them in the fall and spring) and were hunted almost to extinction before being protected.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 24, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

N8,

Thanks for the response, and I understand where you are coming from with the excitement on the Peavy deal. I just think it is important for all of the denizens here and everyone else to look at the rest of the moves that Wren said he would make.

Also, as far as Burrell goes, at the end of the year his numbers are always there…. frenchy no the other hand has not ALWAYS had the numbers there. Since he came up, his production in HR’s has decreased every year. His BA has been very inconsistant, and even if you count this year as a fluke….. if he going to hit 20HR drive in 100 and hit .300…. or is he going to hit 30HR drive in 120 and bat .260?

Also, everyone here seems to be on Hansons jock as a given to come up to the majors and dominate, which I am not sold on. He is dominating in the majors and seems to have all the talent. I don’t want to trade him at all because I think he will be something special, but I’m not going to say he’s going to win 17 games and K 250 guys either. We all need to be realistic and look at Hanson as our #4 or #5 this upcoming year, not our #3.

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Lew

I agree completely with you 110%……….in every word you said…….. I just said what I thought was needed………..I know it wont happen.

By BA

October 24, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

The Padres are not trading Gonzalez. The Padres are MOT trading Gonzalez.

The Padres are mot trading Gonzalez.

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

BuffaloNYBravesFan:

I don’t think it’s realistic to consider Hanson a #3 this season…I don’t view him as any more than a #5. He’ll have good starts, but he will get knocked around, too…it’s only natural for a rookie. Down the road, with a bit of expeience, I don’t think there is any question that he’s a good number 3 with (perhaps) a ceiling of a 1B starter.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think he will contribute next season, and I think most of us will be pleased with the results. But we’ve got to go get some vets to take the pressure off, like FW said. I think we can get the Peavy deal done w/o Hanson, and if not, then I am confient that FW’s got some very good possibilities lined up.

Keep in mind that if Hanson exceeds expections next season and performs like a #3, he’ll only be making 400K. That’s a huge value and should not be thrown out lightly. Especially if he ends up pitching like a 1 or 2 within the next two or three seasons (at 400K)…that’s good value, under team control on the cheap. People just dismiss Hanson because he’s a prospect, but his performance at every level of the minor leagues has been stellar, and he’s got the scouting report to go with the stats, something Chuck James didn’t. As far as prospects go, this guy is for real.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

October 24, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien, there are a few factors to consider about the Marlins. 1. They have fifteen arbitration eligible players. 2. Their 21.8 million payroll will rise significantly. 3. The Marlins will have to trade some of those arbitration eligible players as their payroll is going to be severely limited by team revenue.

Hanley Ramirez is going to eat up 5.5 million all by himself. Scott Olsen is almost certainly gong to be traded as the fish have better and cheaper pitching options behind him.

Dan Uggla is not likely to be traded, but hey, I can dream can’t I? Olsen can be had, by himself. However, if Uggla is included in the trade picture, the Marlins will likely want the damn farm, kitchen sink and the Braves first born.

So , in retrospect. Atlanta would need to put more than just KJ and Reyes on the table if both Uggla and Olsen were packaged together. The two of them are not Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, but they still have significant value if combined together in trade.

By the way, Dontrelle Willis was 0-2, his ERA 9.38 with Detroit. Cabrera had another monster season ( 37 HR’s -127 RB I- .292 BA ) But, the three pitchers they traded over the winter ( Jurrjens, Miller and Bandenhop were a combined 21-23 with 59 starts.) It’s just another cautionary tale about the inherent risk of trading young arms.

All in all, Scott Olsen is doable. Dan Uggla, not so much.

But, 2B Dan Uggla ( 32 HR’s - 92 RBI )

3B Jorge Cantu ( 29 HR’s - 95 RBI )

1B Mike Jacobs ( 32 HR’s - 92 RBI )

LF Josh Willingham ( 15 HR’s - 51 RBI )

CF Cody Ross ( 22 HR’s - 73 RBI ) are all up for arbitration. Somebody will have to be traded.

By TommyP

October 24, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Jairo Cuevas was claimed by the Royals off waivers.

Dayton Moore trying to snatch as many players with Braves ties as possible.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Keylargo—

That is SO cool!! I’ve seen pictures of them, and they are very beautiful!

They…were hunted almost to extinction

Poor things! Why did people hunt them? For their feathers? I can’t see how they’d taste good…

By TommyP

October 24, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Someone tell me the skinny on Cole Rohrbrough.

How bigtime of a prospect is he?

By Interested Observer

October 24, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I just read that Marquis Grissom was added to the Nationals coaching staff as the 1st base coach. It’s great to see him back in the game. He’ll be a great coach!

By TommyP

October 24, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Winter League Stats

Updated player stats for Braves Winter League participants.

Matt Young is following up a very good year with more of the same in Winter League.

By keylargo

October 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Why did people hunt them? For their feathers? I can’t see how they’d taste good…McFann

They used the feathers and also I have heard that the entire wing was used somehow.

By Archbishop of Canterbury

October 24, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Dear Dave, Was up in Philadelphia and had always wanted to visit Penn. Actually went to a class in finance where someone broached the subject of baseball contracts in THIS environment. The professor offered a dire warning—I will paraphrase(adding my own semi-expletives)—It would BEHOOVE these “leeches” like Boras to “MAYBE” not be talking in public about clients being “INSULTED” by 120 million dollar job offers. Especially in BIG market areas where people have lost job, savings and their LIVES, the level of anger directed towards individuals exercising insufferable attitudes of GREED could be dangerous.

My own personal feeling—especially on a day like this—is that anyone worried about Jake Peavy’s place in a starting rotation is either a multi-millionaire with money safely tucked away in bonds(is that safe??) or he or she is an IDIOT of epic proportion. Think it was Lenin who said “Religion is the opiate of the masses”—Vladamir had it all wrong. SPORTS is the opiate of the masses, serving as a distraction to either those who have nothing or those who are are facing the very real prospect of having to work right up until the day that he or she drops dead. I GUARANTEE that the surgeons, orthodontists, cancer researchers, CFO’s, CEO’s, partners in accounting firms and MANY other people in varied important positions of trust could give a rat’s bottom about Jake Blanking Peavy.

Jake Peavy’s place in a rotation!!!! Get a life, PLEASE!!!! Get a life!!

See, Jones can “worry” about Peavy. He is a multi-millionaire who will not have to work up until the day he dies. For all of you in a similiar position, feel free to fret away.

By flange1

October 24, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen an update on the Jordan Schafer injury last night?

By Lew

October 24, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

The Thrill of Victorino and The Agony of McCann.

Doc-I’ll be happy with two good pitches, that power hitting outfielder AND Tommy Hanson waiting in the wings.

By MizzouBravesFan

October 24, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

I’d say right now if you can make a deal that doesn’t include Hanson, you do it…if it has to be sacrificing Schafer, so be it. That potential trade Olney speculates on is intriguing

A potential future top 3 rotation of Peavy, Hanson, JJ is just flat out nasty and that’s not including anyone else we sign.

By DAP

October 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

did anybody find out how serious schafer’s injury is?

im very anxious to see how this peavy thing works out…i hope it a steal, what ever it is.

for outfield trade options…it seems like there are a few options that would seem like modest upgrades, but would be pretty good for the braves.

for instance, coach mentioned cody ross. this guy got a chance last year to play basically his first full season. hes got good power, 22 homers and 29 doubles, can play all three outfield positions, and is a righty. he hits better against lefties. the thing is, his OBP isnt great…but he would be a good option for the braves who need right handed outfielders. hes got enough power to be a guy we could use.

another guy i like is nick swisher. i have no idea if the white sox are interested in trading him, but he would be a good player for us. plays all of the outifled and first base, switch hits, has a high OBP and good power. he slumped last year, but he is a better player than that. swisher would be great if we could find a way to get him.

these guys wouldnt be the big upgrades like dunn or burrell, but small pieces that i think would make a big difference.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP, or at least it should be

By Dow Down

October 24, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Hey Archbishop, You know I do believe you’re right. The Big 3 auto industry about to become the Big 0, even the viability of municipal bonds being questioned, Iceland basically going bankrupt, a feeling of doom this morning and here I’m reading comments about acquiring Dan Uggla. You made me feel like an idiot and as long as I’m contemplating Dan Uggla, I am an idiot. Thanks for the wake-up call.

Be intersting if we sink into a prolonged recession what steps franchises will take in response. I’m from Detroit and I can just imagine the response along the right field line to Miguel Cabrera’s deal. Let’s see what an 8% unemployment figure will do to attendance figures. Even lobster is getting “cheap”, and the Atlanta Braves are not lobster.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Well, I did post it. When it’ll appear, who knows? Gotta get down to Rays clubhouse

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Keylargo—

The wing, huh? That’s int’resting…I guess.

Lew The Thrill of Victorino and The Agony of McCann.

Ye-heah, sure.

Course, I guess it was the “thrill” of Victorino that caused some agony to McCann…

By KC

October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

DOB: NEW BLOG IS UP

Liar!

By ncscoots

October 24, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Perhaps Archbishop should have audited the course in economics, rather than finance. It seems as if he is too young to remember any of the multitude of down business cycles that America has endured in the past. As if the cries of doom for this downturn are any less vociferous than those previous.

America, and Americans, survive such things. And then prosper. It’s our national nature. Oh, we’re self-obsessed and stride the world with a sense of entitlement that would make you want to shoot your neighbor, if he exhibited such a sense in YOUR yard; all true. But NOBODY on this earth takes a lickin’ and keeps on tickin’ like we do. And Americans will keep doing that long after this economic cycle is in the rearview mirror.

And, THAT, good buddy, is why we can weep over the possible inclusion of (insert name here) in a trade for Jake Peavy. Because bad times don’t mean jack, unless you let ‘em beat you. And we don’t.

By rammerjammer

October 24, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

A fine, fine 4:40 post. Recessions come and go, but baseball is forever.

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Lew

I dont think the Braves will run away with that kind of magic act………. an ACE, a good #2 or #3 pitcher and a power bat wont be easy to get without giving Hanson away……. other GMs are not stup….. you know. They know what we have, and you can be sure they also want it. And they know we are desperate, and you bet we are. If great (not only good but great) acquisitions are made, get ready for another 4th place if not worse (taking in account that we wont have Hudson for most of the year and Chipper will be a year older)

By TheOne

October 26, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

We can hope for Peavy, But the braves are too cheap. That as gotten them into there current status of playing terrible baseball. Peavy and Greene would be perfect fits for our team. Again, management is too cheap. Something as to be done. If nothing is done we will have plenty of 4th place seasons or maybe worse.