AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > September > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USRuminating on the season and Hoss’ future
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Houston — One more game. Let’s slap a bow on this season and tuck it away. That, or shoot it and put it out of its misery.
No, but seriously … here we are in Houston, where the Braves will play their last baseball game of the year for the fourth time in five years.
Yes, the Bravos were eliminated in the division series with losses here in 2004 and 2005, and today they’re playing their regular-season finale here for the second season in a row.
Add in the 2006 regular-season finale against the Astros that was played in Atlanta, and it’s a solid half-decade in which the Braves have played this team in their last game before making tee times and vacation plans.
Wait, that’s it. We’ve figured it out.
Houston, we have a problem, and it’s you.
The Braves have missed the playoffs three years running because of the Astros curse. In each of those years, the last regular-season game on the schedule was against the Astros.
Next year the Braves finish the schedule with seven home games against the Marlins and Nationals. Curse lifted.
What’s that? Oh, you think the Braves have missed the playoffs the past few years because of a variety of other reasons, ranging from wholesale injuries and a few underachieving key players this year, to the heavy reliance on older and/or injury-plagued players, and the lack of emphasis placed on middle relief in the past, and the lack of a strong leadoff hitter since Rafael Furcal left, and the self-imposed payroll restrictions that have prevented the team from retaining a few key players or pursuing big-money free agents, and … oh, well. That’s a good point.
But a Houston curse sure would be a more convenient and easily rectified problem, wouldn’t it?
A few other matters before we get this lid-closing tilt underway (if a season opener is a lid-lifter, then the last game should be the lid-closer, right? We encourage old-school jargon here on the MIB blog).
MacDisaster: Brian McCann is not in the lineup again today, and no, it’s not because Bobby Cox doesn’t want him to display that accidental buzz cut to the world.
Have you seen this haircut? It’s the unfortunate result of an alleged accident while Jeff Bennett (the team’s unofficial barber on the road) was cutting McCann’s hair in the clubhouse yesterday. I say alleged, because someone supposedly ran into Bennett’s arm inadvertently while Bennett was going at Mac’s head with the clippers. I’m not so sure it wasn’t someone’s idea of a prank.
Anyway, the clippers dug in and left a significant nearly bare patch, and Bennett had no choice but to damn near shave MacDaddy’s head, or have him get a lot of stares from people wondering about his bare spot.
Truth be told, I gotta say I kind of like the look. Just takes some getting used to. It’s, well, severe. Definitely gives Mac a more serious look. He’s got more hair on his chin now than he has atop his dome.
Now back to the lineup thing.
Mac’s got an even .300 average, and whether it’s said or not, that’s a reason he’s been out of the lineup these last two games. (Not that McCann would ask out; he wouldn’t. Ever. But Cox wants him to keep that .300.)
Bottom line, he’s played hurt most of the season and has 508 at-bats in 144 games, a whole lot of work for a catcher.
So, once the Astros were officially eliminated from contention on Friday, there really wasn’t a compelling reason to play McCann in the last two games. He has 42 doubles, 23 homers, 87 RBI, a .374 OBP and a .524 slugging percentage.
Another stellar season for a guy who has by far the best overall offensive statistics of any National League catcher since the beginning of 2006.
In a season when so much went awry for the Braves, Mac and Jair Jurrjens were exceptions, the two most reliable members of the team (Chipper was the Braves’ best player, when he played. But he played 127 of 161 games before today).
Speaking of Hoss…. I asked Chipper today about coming back on the blog this offseason, and he assured me that he would. So we’ll see. We might give U Kno Who a code so his name comes up in a different color, like AJC bloggers.
Chipper’s going to win his first batting title at age 36, and this morning I asked him what that meant to him, and also about the future.
“It’s sweet vindication after a bunch of people said I was done,” he said. “The last couple of years have been awesome, from a numbers standpoint. To have had as good a year this year at my advanced age is awfully satisfying.” (He smiled after he said that.)
I mentioned that he said a couple years ago that he still had plenty left.
“Well, nobody knows my body better than me,” he said. “I know that I can still go out there and play the game at a high level. Last year, this year, next year … doesn’t matter. I just hope people will give me the opportunity to continue to go out and do the things that have made me successful for 15 years now.”
That said, I asked him if he still felt strongly about wanting to finish his career with the Braves.
“Yeah, definitely,” he said. “I was born and bred into this organization. It’s the only organization I’ve ever known. Bobby Cox is the only manager I’ve ever played for. I can’t imagine the grass being any greener on the other side.
“I don’t want that to happen, but every dog has his day.”
I told him that last line would be interpreted in different ways by fans. Did it mean Chipper doesn’t expect to stay with the Braves, or that he wouldn’t be surprised if they listen to trade offers at some point in the future?
He went into his familiar line about how Dale Murphy was traded by the Braves. And David Justice. And even the great Hank Aaron.
Chipper’s not under contract beyond 2009, an option year that already vested. I asked whether he expected to work out a new deal with the Braves this winter.
“I’m sure that we will be approached at some point this offseason,” he said. “Otherwise, with next year being my last year, God forbid we’re in the same boat we’re in now [not going to the postseason]. Otherwise, you could be looking at scenarios where that have me on the trading block next July.”
Jones has the power to veto any trade as a 10-and-5 player (at least 10 years of service, including at least five with current team). But he’s said he wouldn’t hold the Braves hostage, that if they wanted to trade him he’d listen.
“I don’t want to play somewhere I’m not wanted,” he said. “But in the same sense, of the places I would go - the list is very short. Got to be the right situation for me and my family. That’s what being in one place for so long does for you: allows you to go where you want to go.”
Perhaps knowing how that might sound, he quickly added: “But I don’t want to make it like it’s a foregone conclusion that I’m gonna be gone next year. My goal is to play my entire career with the Atlanta Braves.”
On that note, let’s watch some ball. The game’s started. But first, a great tune from a mighty Texan, about another such Texan.
”BOB WILLS IS STILL THE KING” by Waylon Jennings
Well the honky-tonks in Texas were my natural second home
Where you tip your hats to the ladies and the rose of San Antone
I grew up on music that we called western swing
It don’t matter who’s in Austin, Bob Wills is still the king
Lord I can still remember, the way things were back then
In spite of all the hard times, I’d live it all again
To hear the Texas playboys and Tommy Duncan sing
Makes me proud to be from Texas where Bob Wills is still the king
You can hear the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It’s the home of country music, on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol’ Red River, hoss, that just don’t mean a thing
Cause once you’re down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king
Well if you ain’t never been there then I guess you ain’t been told
That you just can’t live in Texas unless you got a lot of soul
It’s the home of Willie Nelson, the home of western swing
He’ll be the first to tell you, Bob Wills is still the king
Comments
By Deep Throat
September 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
If Chipper goes 1-1 today, he’ll be at .366 and I believe the best batting average for a switch hitter ever.
By McFann :Ô:
September 28, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief! And thanks for the McCann…uh…clip. (Sorry…no pun intended, just couldn’t remember the word I was gonna use.)
A prank…you might be on to something.
But, I still wish he was playing. That is a whole lot of work, like you said—I’m just a little t’d off that I missed his last two AB. Nobody’s fault except the presidential candidates, though. Bobby’s got good reasons not to play him…
:,( Second?
By N9 Chipper to be crowned
September 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog DOB..hope chipper gets to bat today!!!
By True Braves Fan
September 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Chipper should finish his career as a Brave…
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Some in the pressbox speculating Hampton grooved one for his retiring buddy Ausmus. I disagreed. Can’t see him doing that in Hampton’s situation, pitching for a contract, in a start that Cox gave him over Jair Jurrjens, etc.
I just think he left one up. He left up a few other pitches that inning, too. That keeps up, he’ll give up another homer or two before he’s done today.
By McFann :Ô:
September 28, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Is it bad that I cheered for Ausmus?
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
And yes, Chipper would need to get a hit today to get back above the Mick’s .365. He’s at .364 now, would go to .366 with a 1-for-1 today.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Chipper should finish his career as a Brave…
Amen.
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
Last roundup before the off-season, and I just want to thank you and AJC for the great forum you’ve provided. Still in my rookie year here, it really has been enjoyable. With the team now at a distance and my ability to travel limited, this blog really fills a need for my psyche. BRAVES fan forever. Looking forward to the hot stove suppositions PART DEUX.
One question. Hope you can get around to it - will the RICHMOND coaches go to GWINNETT.? Get well, and get ready for some organizational moves this winter. Oh, and if you get out to ARIZONA again, please visit my old haunt JEROME.
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Hoss begins the day at .3644646 (160 for 439). Looks like Chipper would have to go 2 for 2 getting him to .3673469 (.367) to eclipse the Atlanta Braves season batting average record held by Rico Carty in 1970. He hit .366109 (175 for 478), or .366 per Baseball Reference. Unlikely for Chippper to get two chances today.
The Mick, as mentioned by others, hit .3649789 (173 for 474), or .365. A pinch hit in one AB would move Chipper to .365909 or .366 to win Hoss the all time season BA by a switch hitter. An out would only move Chipper down to .363636 or .364.
Regardless, an outstanding season by Chipper winning the National League (and Major League for that matter) batting title. Perhaps he will pick up a Rawlings Gold Glove to round out a crowning HOF season.
Thank you, Chipper. I have really enjoyed your performances, especially the last two years.
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Is it bad that I cheered for Ausmus?
Not at all- from everything I have heard he is one of the good guys- I was happy for him too- nice way to go out…
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Is it bad that I cheered for Ausmus?McFann
No, but it’s bad that you’ve abandoned McCann because of his haircut.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Richbrave: Thanks, man. No announcement until later in offseason about minor league coaching staffs.
And I went to Jerome for the first time last fall, when I went out to do story on Schafer in Fall League. Wish I’d known about the ride to Jerome, I’d have rented a Harley for sure. Next time. Might go out there again this fall and do it. Great little town, Jerome.
By Run Heap Run
September 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Congrats to The Hoss Man. Thanks for 15 great years and you’ll break our hearts if you don’t finish it out in a Braves uni..and I believe I speak for most when I say I don’t want to see that finish any time soon.
I promised my niece I’d take her to see Sesame Street Live today so I’ll be finishing this one out on the radio…
Go Braves! Go Brewers!
By N9 Chipper to be crowned
September 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
King Albert 0-1 .356
Very Nice Info on Chipper DOB!!!
asked Chipper today about coming back on the blog this offseason, and he assured me that he would
That would be fun and looking foward to
My goal is to play my entire career with the Atlanta Braves.”- “Otherwise, you could be looking at scenarios where that have me on the trading block next July” chipper
And your goal will be reached. Chipper WILL finish as a Brave. Can’t compare Chipper with TEX’s situation. No way we would trade Chipper! We drafted Chipper. While TEX has a money hungry agent, Chipper wants to be here.
By Jeff321
September 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
HEY! The defensive specialist just threw one into center field.
Imagine my shock.
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
DOB
Glad to see someone out there is on my side with Mac’s new look- I knda like it.
Also wanted to let you know how much I have enjoyed your blog this year. I stumbled across it about half way through the season and never left…You have won at least one new fan this season:) Thanks (to Carroll also!)
Nice throw Francoeur!
By Tomahawkin
September 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin is hungover and listening to some Herb Albert, and Old Janet Jackson…
D.O.B. Thanks for all the 411 of your misadventures across america…You have made me a travel junkie now, Because of your insights about all the cities and the food across America…
Are you going to be the beat writer for the TBS playoff games…?
Also I will co-sign on those Blue Road uniforms… those jerseys cursed us from opening day…
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
muts and Brewers both down 1 - 0.
By Mitchell
September 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Love those Marlins.
Hey Braves, how bout we try to win this game.
You can say the Astros have cursed us, but they’ll have to get in line. It goes back quite a ways.
I just don’t like playing them two years in a row in Houston in meaningless games… and losing.
I’d just like to see them win.
Let’s get some runs.
By McFann :Ô:
September 28, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan @ 3:03—
Agreed.
DOB—
I didn’t abandon Mac!!! Never never never! Remember I was pestering you as to whether or not he was playing?
I would never abandon him just because Jeff Bennett screwed up.
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
muts down 2 - 0. More on the way.
By Tomahawkin
September 28, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Hey does Anyone on this blog Collect cards???
I have about 20 different Chipper Rookie Cards… As well as 300 of his regular cards from 1995-2002
My favorite Chipper card is his 1992 Upper Deck Minors where he is posing the bat into the camera…as well as his 1992 Bowman Card, where he is wearing black shorts and some 1991 Hi-Top Nike Air Flights…Among Others…
Thoughts???
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Marlins now lead Mets 2-0 after 5 1/2. Nicely done, Muts reliever Joe Smith walked in that second run with the bases loaded by Oliver Perez.
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Braveheart was being entirely too gracious last night over Alabama’s win, screen name must have been hijacked by someone else, LOL.
Scoots Hey, man, I love to talk trash before a game but not afterwards. If you remember, I talked alot of trash before the Clemson game but didn’t say anything when the game was over. Some weird punk took anonymous shots at Wayne after that game and ruined the fun we were all having with each other but I just don’t like talking trash after the game. That’s not my style. I’m not like a lowlife Mets fan. Nothing worse than rubbing someone’s nose in it. It’s best to just turn your nose up at the stink of them. :)
By Jake
September 28, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Marlins are in that Mets bullpen. Brewers down 1-0. C.C. is dealing again. It should be 0-0 in Milwaukee but Fielder let a possible DP ball roll right under him. Both are good games.
By N9 Chipper to be crowned
September 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
around the NL..
Muts lucky to only give 2 runs in that inn.
Brew Crew only 1 hit to show thus far? Who wants this playoff spot?
Albert 1-2 .357
By jimcpa
September 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
90 losses coming right up. Hoss is very expendable. Body can’t keep up with the demands of the job. Not a class act either. Say goodbye to the old mens club before you can say hello to winning.
By McFann :Ô:
September 28, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
See, the only reason I cheered for Ausmus (and it wasn’t a cheer cheer, it was more of a “good for him” kinda thing) was because it’s his last game, and ya know…it’s kinda cool for him to do that in his last game…I mean, the guy only has 79 career homers now…
So that’s it…Nothing else…I like, didn’t crown him my new favorite or anything…still got the same All-Time Favorite Player.
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Phelps pinch-running for Pujols. So Pujols finishes with a .35687 average.
By Greg in TN
September 28, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Sir Albert is out of the game after going 1-2, so this makes it official and since I hate to count my chickens before they hatch, always going to wait until I know it’s a done deal.
Congratulations U Kno Who!
By AdirondackDave
September 28, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Chipper has the batting title in the bag. Prince Albert is out of the game after going 1-2 and finishing at .357. Congratulations, Hoss.
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Beltran smacks a 2R Homer to tie it 2-2 vs Marlins.
By JerseyGil
September 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
TOMAWKIN i COLLECT BASEBALL CARD , I HAVE A CHIPPER HS ALL AMERICAN CARD.
By AdirondackDave
September 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
I should also congratulate Albert Puhuls for another great season. The guy is truly an offensive beast.
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
BRAVES fans. Gotta’ abandon the old post. Cowboys and Indians shoot-out coming up. Sorry FALCONS affectionados, REDSKINS fan all the way. Hope CHIP gets his hit. He deserves it. Will seal the deal with the HOF voters too.
By Couch Tater
September 28, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
“The good thing about this organization during the offseason is, you feel like they’re always going to give you the opportunity to be competitive.” -Chipper Jones from the January 14, 2008 blog.
Next for Braves: Swarm of Locusts? -David O’Brien June 11, 2008 blog
Those two pretty much sum up the season. Thanks for the blogs DOB and Carroll and to all you bloggers who can hunt and peck much quicker than I. Finding this site has made watching the Bravos even more enjoyable.
By Tomahawkin
September 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil Damn… that’s tite…I have all of his Fleer Ultra cards…Some of his best shots in my opinion…
and I used to have all the Beckett Magazine covers he was on, before my mom sold them at a yard sale (She sold them when I went to baseball practice that day…) And I still hae not gotten oved that…
D.O.B. Did you ever collect cards when you were young…?
Before the hobby became an industry…
By McFann ;Ô;
September 28, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Albert’s out? YES!!!!!! “Call in the dogs and put out the fire! We’re gonna crown us a new champ!”
CONGRATULATIONS, U KNO WHO!!!!
Albert, you put in a good fight, but as they say, may the best man win!
And he did!
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Craig Counsell, Brave killer, has just walked with the bases loaded to tie the Brewers and Cubbies at 1-1. Bases still loaded two outs and Jason Kendall batting. Go Brew Crew.
By N9 Chipper to be crowned
September 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Brewers! Don’t die on me yet! Bases loaded one out only 1 scored ..tie game
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Good bye to the following, please do not come back next year: Julian Tavarez, Corky Miller, Jeff Bennett, Jeff Francouer. Frenchy enjoy Gwinnett next season.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Home Run Wes Helms off Scott Schoenweis…Mets down 3-2.
By Tomahawkin
September 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil One of my favorite sets of cards that I have is 1991 Leaf Studio…
It gives 411 on the Braves players as to what kind of music they like…For example…
Back then Tom Glavine’s favorite artist was Phil Collins
David Justice favorite artist was Mariah Carey, which I don’t blame him for…I Love that old Mariah…
Deion Sanders favorite was M.C. Hammer, Go Figure…That sounds alike…
but that baseball card set Rules…!
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Marlins 3 - 2
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Wes Helms pinch homer, Marlins lead Mets 3-2, still batting in top of the 8th. Go Fish. Beat the swine Mets.
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Chipper up next. Please no DP Casey.
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Helms and Uggla going yard on back-to-back fashion. Gotta love that Mets bullpen, right Mets fans?
By Brian
September 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
DOB- You know, MLB is giving away awards like Batting Champ,Cy Young, etc. What about the Most Outstanding New Blogger Award for Mr. Brian? It would mean alot!
By N9 Chipper to be crowned
September 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Frenchy’s last day: 3 K’s and first pitch out! Fitting.
Wow Wes Helms has put the Muts behind!!
WTG Kelly!
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Now Dan Uggla with a home run off Ayala! 4-2 Fish
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Uggla follows Helms by homering off of Ayala. Mets collapse is almost complete.
By Moby Grape
September 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
With Chipper and his dad’s idolization of the Mick, I wonder if he will even try today, unless absolutely necessary?
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
The Mick is safe. His record .365 stands. Chipper will finish at .364.
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Chipper walks :(
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Ryan Braun two-run homer!!! Brewers up 3-1, CC going for a complete game.
By N9 Chipper crowned
September 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Valverde you puss!
.364 Congrats HOSS!!!!!!!!!!Solid year
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Milwaukee 3 - 1
Marlins 4 - 2
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
mets pen imploding yet again…
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Brewers leading in the 8th! Bye bye Mets!!!!
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
It’s nice to see ole number 10 finally win a batting title. Maybe he could have won one or two earlier in his career. It’s hard to do that though when you go out there 150+ times in the first 10 years of your career. Can’t underestimate how the everyday grind takes a toll on things like batting average. So he’s not out there as much as we’d all like these days. Dude is 36.
I think we’ve all seen how much the grind of being out there everyday for a decade takes a toll on the bodies of our legends when they reach 30. We’ve seen it with Dale Murphy, Andruw Jones and Chipper Jones.
I think with Dale, the early demise was caused by the toll taken from the early years catching, the iron man thing, the hard, punishing unforgiving NL outfield turfs at the time, the shoddy sod at AFCS, all the West Coast trips playing in the NL West in an East Coast city with travel conditions nowhere near as luxurious as they are today.
With Andruw, it was the decade of 150+ games at a physically demanding position with all the reckless abandon he played the position with, including all those dives and crashes into walls.
With Chipper, it was the early formative years playing a physically demanding position like short and all the 150+ games played as a third baseman in the majors.
plus, athletes just tend to break down at 30.
Chipper was able to stay better longer than those two when their bodies all started failing them at 30 because from a mechanics, discipline and plate approach standpoint, he had a much more fundamentally sound base from which to work with. Chipper also treated his body better on and off the field than Andruw did.
But reflecting back on Dale, Andruw and Chipper, you can’t help but marvel at the greatness of the rock that was Hank Aaron. The man averaged over 30 homers for about 25 years. Simply amazing.
Hats off to Chipper. Before the season, I wanted him to give us a year to remember him by in the twilight of his career like Brett did when he won the batting title in 1990 or like the mvp year Schmidt had in 1986 or a moment like Boggs had when he rode around on the horse in Yankee Stadium in 1996. Those are the greatest third baseman of the generation before the greatest third baseman of our generation. Chipper just checked off the Brett thingie …… now let’s be selfish and get him to check off the Schmidt and Boggs thing next year……
It was a horrible year for the Braves that we will all likely have forgotten twenty years from now ….. but we will all remember that Chipper flirted with .400 and Mickey Mantle, won a batting title and got to stand next to Arod, Schmidt, Brett, Boggs, Brooks at third base at the All Star game in Yankee Stadium. The only one missing in that photo of the greatest third basemen of all time was our other all time great Eddie Mathews.
So the year was awful but thanks to Chipper, we didn’t have it all that bad.
And many thanks to DOB and Carroll for bringing that all to us this year as well
By brent a.
September 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Sayanora! Mets!
By Bobby's Cox
September 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
wow…
what a turn of events.
braun puts milwaukee ahead with a 2 run 8th inning HR, and Helms hits a solo shot to put the Mets down 1.
History repeating itself.
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
The Braves lose (yet again). Finally the season is OVER, and we can work on getting a healthier club for 2009. Thank you DOB and Mrs Carroll for keeping us entertained here.
I still love the Braves, but it’s been a painfull season to keep up with.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
DOB and Carroll, thanks for all the hard work, and thanks for making this forum available for all of us. I look forward to reading your offseason coverage.
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
With all there was to question this season, I will let it be handled by the professionals. It’s their job and they do it better than I could.
But one thing is going to bother me. Why did CJ pinch hit in the ninth inning yesterday? That cost him a shot at a record that will probably never be approached again. If not for that fly out in a blowout win, Chipper Jones would have the highest batting average ever for a switch hitter.
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
CC tosses a complete game as the Brewers beat the Cubbies 3-1 and the Mets choke down the chance to tie them for the Wild Card. Sweet no playoffs for the braggart Mets bottom feeders.
By Jake
September 28, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
C.C. is the man. Complete game win. Third straight start on short rest. No earned runs. Let’s see what the Met’s bullpen does.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Just an epic performance from CC Sabathia today, on par with Johan Santana’s performance yesterday. Wow, what a game. Get some ice on that arm, CC.
Just a fantastic pennant race. Gotta love it.
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Deja vu!
By Bobby's Cox
September 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for the fun year. You’ve done a great job.
Looking forward to an entertaining off-season.
By N Nine
September 28, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Wow Muts down to last 3 outs ..Brew Crew already won!!!!!
This is fun to watch!
By N Nine
September 28, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Cameron Maybin looks to break out next year. Another good young player for florida
By Bobby's Cox
September 28, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
i wonder how many MVP votes ryan braun will get this year.
that was 2 huge HR this past week to put milwaukee in the postseason if the Mets can’t score 2 runs in the 9th.
37 HR for braun this year.
By McFann O zz
September 28, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
:,(
Keylargo Why did CJ pinch hit in the ninth inning yesterday?
Same reason McCann pinch-hit in the ninth inning today.
Rally McTurtle has gone into hibernation much sooner than expected.
I’m gonna miss you, Braves! This was a cruddy way to close it out, but I’m gonna miss you anyway. Time for a little England Dan & John Ford Coley:
What we thought would last forever
Ended so suddenly…so suddenly
What cann I do with the broken heart,
And a good-bye that leaves me nowhere?
What cann I do with the broken heart,
And a love I can’t get over?
And a love I can’t get over?
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
CC and that Braun homer were awesome to watch live. Actually caused me to watch a Brewer game. Gotta love baseball!
By Moby Grape
September 28, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
RichBrave
I remember reading something about that years ago, and you are correct that they made no more movies together. Newman was always known for a wicked sense of humor, and Redford was thought to be pretty full of himself back in the day. He might very well have gotten his feelings hurt over something that he more or less deserved. Even more likely it was a clash of two humongous egos, the older generation and the new at that time. I happen to like Newman’s body of work better that Redford’s, but they both made some fine movies, and ended up as philanthropists. No matter their thoughts on working together, I cherish both movies that they created, as I’d guess you do too.
By Mark in PA
September 28, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
DOB I’m listening to the audio broadcast and couldn’t quite tell…
Was is Bob Will’s version of “Deep in the Heart of Texas” for the seventh inning stretch?
Thanks for another great job of reporting this season.
By radoncbravesfan
September 28, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
It’s exciting watching the Mets meltdown and the Twins and Chisox battle it out. Oh well, it’ll have to do until opening day in philly.
By keylargo
September 28, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
Paging Dr. Heimlich, Paging Dr. Heimlich………………….
By radoncbravesfan
September 28, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
DOB and Carroll Add my congrats to a great year reporting on the long seasons events. I for one thoroughly enjoy the analysis. BTW, how often do you post a blog in the offseason? (I started monitoring the blog last spring training)
By northbeach Scott
September 28, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
The Mets have now soiled themselves for a final time in 2008. It is now official, the Mets have the two worst back to back collapses in major league history.
Say what you will about the Braves not winning more than one World Series under the tactically challenged Bobby Cox. The Mets have proven to be the biggest douche bags in the history of baseball per the Elvis Sports Bureau. That is all.
By Greg in TN
September 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
The only sounds at Shea this October will be the sounds of demolition as the mets have once again folded like a card table when it counted. Granted, the collapse of ‘09 is not near as dramatic as the one experienced by the Flushing faithful in ‘08. But hey, the big difference between a sinking ship and the mets seem to be that even sinking ships only sink once. I can almost hear Kevin James sobbing in sorrow… Same old mets, same old mets, same old mets.
Ironically, there is a sad faced group of mets fans right now sitting in seats destined for Chipper Jones’ house.
Outstanding post at 4:28, Braveheart. Murph played 162 games for four straight years (1982-1985) and played no less than 154 games in a full season as a Brave until his trade to Philadelphia. Andruw played 159+ from 1998 to 2001. Absolutely takes a toll on a player having to go out day after day and playing through injuries, double headers, travel and the like.
It’s a shame Chipper couldn’t get anything to hit from Jose Valverde before drawing his ninth inning walk. The Mick is secure for another season with his .364 mark a few thousandths of a point higher. I’m disappointed in the tag that Lil’bridge put on Newhan that got knocked free. Sloppy play there.
Happy to see a good guy like Brad Ausmus get the send off he deserves and I’m very happy to see the batting crown back in the ATL (and the first time a switch hitter has won since TP pulled it off in ‘91).
By LuisG
September 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Mets lose! Mets lose! Mets lose!
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
another late season mets collapse: priceless
By BravesFanInRockies
September 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Mutts lose! Mutts lose!
How’s that four-year extension for Omar looking now, Mr. Wilpon?
By Couch Tater
September 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
LET’S BLOW (IT) METS!
By Ron Roberts
September 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
What might’ve been, eh?
What if… we’d gone 30-11 in one-run games instead of 11-30? It’s a 19 game swing, and oh, look, we’re out by 19 as-is.
What if… we’d not lost Tim Hudson’s 3.17 ERA and John Smoltz’s 2.57 ERA over the course of a full season? Couple those two with the tremendous first full-year success of Jair Jurrjens (3.68 ERA) and the nice discovery that is Jorge Campillo (3.91 ERA) and throw in a full-year of Hampton or Glavine and we’d have been set with the best rotation in baseball.
What if… we’d gone 10-3 in extra-inning games instead of 3-10?
What if… we’d had either Pete Moylan or Raphael Soriano for the entire season?
It’s not out of the realm of possibility to suggest that this team was built not only to win, but win big and make a serious postseason run. All those “what-ifs” aren’t pie-in-the-sky thoughts, either; we had no reason to suspect that we’d lose Hudson or Smoltz for prolonged periods, and while Soriano did come with an injury-plagued history, we certainly didn’t think he and Moylan would go down, and how were we to suspect that our sound offensive production would be so spotty instead of consistent, leading to the record number of 1-run losses on the road and the lopsided W-L total in 1-run games, period?
Going into the offseason, I think we’re alot better off than most dour people would suggest.
STARTING PITCHING: Jair and Jorge give us viable #2 and #3 (or #3 and #4) starters, at worst. We have an abundance of cash to fill the #1 spot and to also pick up a serviceable veteran mid-rotation piece, too. Our youngsters (Parr, Morton) I think, are ready to be that 5th starter if we pick up a marquee top-tier starter for the #1 spot. Personally, I’d like us to re-sign Hampton to a $1-2 million deal with heavy incentives for IP, GS. He’s shown to be a VERY serviceable starter, still, with often-nasty stuff against potent lineups.
BULLPEN: Gonzo’s back, Moylan’s coming back, and I’d like to see us keep Ohman, too. Manny Acosta has a bright future, too, I believe. If Soriano returns and is productive, we only need incidental workparts to make this bullpen special. If he doesn’t, it’s still a good ‘pen with a healthy Moylan back in the fold.
OUTFIELD… This is the area we need the most help at. It’s encouraging to see Jeff Francoeur had a solid September at the plate; how much of that is at the expense of September call-ups I can’t say; I’ll let some book-worm numbers-cruncher waste time on that. I’m encouraged; that being said, we need an OF masher at either LF or RF. Again, we seem to have plenty of cash to go acquire a big-name OF bomber. If we do that, we can get away with grooming Schafer or re-signing Matt Diaz I’d think.
INFIELD… Kotchman showed us what we’re going to be blessed with at 1B, and I feel good about that. I think Yunel’s experience this season will make him a better, more productive and consistent SS in future seasons, and the only question mark, in my mind is, do we “hope” Kelly Johnson can hit like he did to end this season over a more consistent string next season? He has the tools and the ability to be a (my opinion here) batting title-contending hitter. But that’s just potential, and you can’t cash potential at the bank. Of course, Chipper’s got 3B nailed down, batting title in-tow, and there’s no question locking down McCann at the dish was very wise.
BENCH, ETC… Infante, Prado and Blanco all did well, in my opinion, all in extenuating circumstances. They’re a great foundation for bench support and/or spot fill-ins when needed.
IN CONCLUSION… big money starter, big money OF, and decide of KJ is trade bait or our hits-for-average 2B (or maybe LF with other options for 2B more readily available?) and I don’t see why this squad can’t be right in the thick of the playoff push next season.
Thoughts?
By Brian
September 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
MUTS CHOKE AGAIN!!!!!
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
There was a bit of exuberance displayed in the Braves clubhouse as that last out was made to complete the Mets Meltdown, Pt. II.
All the players were saying their goodbyes and all, most already done packing and dressing, but a lot of them stayed around to watch those final outs on TV.
By Brett Butler fan
September 28, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Mets lose! Mets lose! Mets lose!
BTW, what do you think of the gang-related spider web tattoo that Reyes has on his arm/elbow? Doesn’t Andruw Jones have one, too? Hmmmm…
By Mitchell
September 28, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Love love love those Marlins Marlins Marlins.
The Beatles… still the best group to take the field in Shea Stadium.
By Jake
September 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Not the best season for the Braves but I for one am looking forward to see what we will do in the offseason. Got a little money this offseason so that should be interesting. Great seasons by Mac and Chipper. Can’t say enough but how good Jurrjens was for us. Prado, Infante, and Norton were great off the bench. Gonzo did his part after returning but i’m looking forward to seeing him fully healthy. Here’s to hoping Smoltz can make one last comeback. Even without the Braves should be an interesting postseason. Will the Cubs break the curse? How will the young Rays fair? Manny in LA and the Red Sox trying to repeat. Looking forward to seeing Smoltzie in the booth.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Cox on Hampton: “His stuff is good enough to win 15 games next year. Hopefully it’s with us.”
Hampton said there’s interest from both sides (him and the Braves), but he also knows other teams will be interested.
“I do feel I owe the Braves some loyalty,” he said. “So we’ll see. I know a lot of guys on the team want me back, and Bobby wants me back.”
By AZ Braves Fan
September 28, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
HA HA HA HA HA HA! Mets collapse! Oh how excellent it was to watch that game….
By Josh
September 28, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
I hope there will be a Jeff Francoeur contingency plan in place next season. Since he is entering his 1st arb year he shouldn’t cost too much, so I’m willing to bet he’ll get the chance to rebound. But the Braves can not trot out a sub .700 OPS corner outfielder night after night if they think they’re going to contend. If you have ‘05 Andruw-level production out of CF, sure, but that won’t be the case for the ‘09 Braves. I’m willing to give him another chance, but I hope & pray we don’t have to sit through watching him struggle night after night again.
By Crap-Wheelie
September 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
The only good thing about this season is that the Mets didn’t make the playoffs. BTW, all you Mets fans, you rag on us for only winning one World Series in 14 playoff appearances: What does it say about you guys that you can’t even get into the playoffs with your awesome lineup? Talk amongst yourselves. You added the best pitcher in baseball and you couldn’t even make it to October. Go away now.
By Daybed Wagmoe
September 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
To all the Mets fans that frequent the blog (especially the ones that are brave enough to make an appearance after today):
Tough break. It’s hard to have the season come down to the very last day, only to have it not work out. See you next summer.
By Brian
September 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Roberts- I’m with you. I’d like to see Wren try and sign a guy like Lowe as early as possible before the Yanks start rearin’ their ugly heads. That’s IF they don’t beat us first! I gotta lean more towards Dunn than Burrell now that he’s stunk up the joint so much lately, but either one would definitley help us! A trade for Ordonez would be even better(defense)! A top starter would obviously cost big time but it can happen.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Congrats to the Brew Crew and Sabathia. He answered the bell today again. Amazing what he’s done the last three weeks.
You can call this another choke by the Mets but I don’t see it that way without Wagner and Maine the last 6 weeks or so, but to each his own. To me the final blow to this team was when over achieving veterans Tatis and Easely got hurt about a month ago. They had to use rookies Evans, Murphy and Argenis Reyes almost full time and it killed the bottom of the order. Teams pitched real carefully to the top 5 guys when they could and it showed.
Anyway, I’ll take meaningful games on the last day of the season every year. This is the third one in a row.
Highlight of the day for me was when Beltran was up in the 8th as the tying run while at the same time Derrick Lee was up in the Brewer game in the bottom of the 9th as the tying run there. Toggling back and forth between at bats was awesome. Neither turned out in the Mets favor but it sure was fun.
As for Shea - It’s a dump but it’s my dump. I’ll definetly miss it. I’m sure some of the Braves fans on here that grew up going to Fulton County Stadium know what I mean. Those that don’t well it’s a personal thing anyway so who cares?
Lastly, I hope they bring Manuel back next year. He’s just right for this team and this town.
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe the Mets did it again. Wow.
DOB
Thanks for the blog this season. Good stuff.
And I am for Mike Hampton in 2009. I never thought I would say that, but he sure looks like he could provide us with a solid season if healthy. Plus I can’t imagine he’ll cost too much.
By fred
September 28, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF A frog had wings, he his a55 wouldn’t hit the ground when he jumped….
We can talk about if all we want. The fact of the matter is that we just flat out sucked this year. IF’S are nothing more than EXCUSES..
GUESS WHAT If we keep the same nucleus together next year, we will continue to suck
This team does not know how to win. Unless a complete overhaul is made, this group (sans McCann/Chipper/Smoltz) will continue to lose
By Josh
September 28, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Thanks for that bit from Hampton, DOB. He seems like a good clubhouse guy and he has pitched pretty well this season. If the team doesn’t tie up too much guaranteed money with him I’d like to think he’ll be back.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Greg in TN
Ironically, there is a sad faced group of mets fans right now sitting in seats destined for Chipper Jones’ house.
Great line! Good work. Wish I thought of it.
By MIBravesFan
September 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
“By Moby Grape
September 28, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
RichBrave
I remember reading something about that years ago, and you are correct that they made no more movies together. Newman was always known for a wicked sense of humor, and Redford was thought to be pretty full of himself back in the day. He might very well have gotten his feelings hurt over something that he more or less deserved. Even more likely it was a clash of two humongous egos, the older generation and the new at that time. I happen to like Newman’s body of work better that Redford’s, but they both made some fine movies, and ended up as philanthropists. No matter their thoughts on working together, I cherish both movies that they created, as I’d guess you do too.”
Did either you or RichBrave see the hour Redford did with Newman on the “Iconoclasts” series on The Sundance Channel just a couple of years ago? Redford was profiling and interviewing Newman! There was absolutely no ego problem with those guys at all! They both had busy careers and both wanted another really good script to do together - scripts like “Butch and Sundance” and “The Sting” do not come along with great regularity. Clashing egos absolutely was not an issue with those two guys.
By Lew
September 28, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Anders-I doubt that coming here and claiming injuries to key players and the use of rookies as an excuse for the Mets continued suckhood will garner you a damn bit of sympathy. The Braves could claim the same for their season this year. Mets’ fans sure didn’t want to hear it and Dude, neither do we.
I’m not sure what you call losing a four game September lead for the second straight season, but a second collapse sure fits the definition to me-and I would bet there would be major agreement among a large portion of all baseball fans.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Fred
*The fact of the matter is that we just flat out sucked this year. IF’S are nothing more than EXCUSES..
GUESS WHAT If we keep the same nucleus together next year, we will continue to suck*
What does talking with such anger and a potty mouth say about one’s mental state? You being a psychologist and all I welcome your thoughts.
By varoadrunner
September 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Many reasons for yahooooo’s for this final day: - Chipper wins his batting championship - Rookies look good and I’m excited about the offseason. We can only hope Mr. Wren works hard and can get the talent we need for ‘09
and
-the Mutts are again silenced in September.
Yahoooooo
By Lew
September 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Anders-Who you going to blame now that Glavine can no longer be your whipping boy?
By Brian
September 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Anders- You’re a brave dude and for that I have to give you credit! I will NEVER predict a baseball team to be the BEST like you’ve done-maybe football- too many things can happen in a 162 game season to be predicting a team the best! If I were you I wouldn’t do that in ‘09- Especially the with the CHOKING MUTS!!
By Supes
September 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
Congratulations Chipper Jones on winning the NL and MLB Batting titles! Highest average in the league! I was one of the few when he had the “bad year” and hit below .250 that believed he wasn’t finished, isn’t finished can’t be finished.
Chipper Jones has at least 3 more good years in him, as a productive hitter. Main issue is the health and injuries. No question when he is playing the Braves are a contender and a dangerous team. He’s the heart and soul of the lineup.
My wish as a Braves fan is for him to retire as an Atlanta Brave. I think he’s earned it. There is nobody better in the minor leagues anyways (in the near future), so the Braves should man up and offer him a 2 year incentive based conctract with a good bonus number but lower annual salary. That way it works for the team’s budget and plans, and if he does put up the numbers, he’ll make his money anyways.
Anders
YES YOUR METS CHOCKED AGAIN. YES IT WAS FUN TO WATCH. Meltdown 2.0 was in full effect over the last month. Look it up. Braves were a big part of it. Mets fear the Braves, always have always will. They’ve been spuddering all month long. Losing to the Nats, the Braves again, and the Fish.
Congrats to the Brewers. C.C Sabatiah should never have to pay for a meal or a drink in the city of Milwakee ever again. He carried their sorry team to the playoffs.
BTW…I wish the Braves had a LF like Ryan Braun. Right handed stick with power who hits for average. While we are going over next year’s wishlist…that should be the top priority after Starting Pitching!
By bobby
September 28, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
I haven’t seen anyone mention it but it wouldn’t surprise me that one of the reasons for Andruw’s decline is the possibility that he is older than he claims.
By Train Wreck Bystander
September 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
I just read on ESPN that the Nats fired 5 coaches today.
Although I enjoy schadenfreude at the expense of the Mets, I do hope we are celebrating our own successes next year at season’s end.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Lew
Haven’t heard directly from you in a while. Hope all is well - I mean that. Anyway, no one to blame in my book. I think the Mets hung tough all year with lots of injuries and a few key ones in the end. Happens to everyone but the Mets didn’t fall out of it in August when it definetly could have happened.
I didn’t bring up Glavine today but since you did, Perez gave them a real good effort on three days rest. 2 runs in 6 I believe. Anyway it wasn’t 7 in 2/3’s of an inning if you know what I mean? The Mets had the tying run at bat when Church hit it to the warning track. A long cry from game 162 last season.
Awesome closing ceremonies for Big Shea going on right now. Every living ex Met is there. Really well done. Not that you care, just thought I’d share one baseball guy to another.
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
MOBY GRAPE:
Absolutemond.!!!!
Well, I guess we can resurrect the “melts” monniker again - as in PART DEUX for ANDERS, METMAN, et.al. Gee, if they weren’t such cowardly t*rds, I’d almost feel sorry for them. Well, I give ANDERS credit for showing his face today. To you ANDERS I say, I feel your pain. Sorry.
I certainly have empathy for my misguided son-in-law who continues to enjoy a masochistic life-style as not only a METS, but a BEARS fan as well. And of course he’s infected my precious child with his miasma.
Some might pin that style on me as well being a die-hard REDSKINS fan, but at least I know how to pick’um in baseball, right denizens.
Slowy becoming a HAWKs fanatic also. Great young nucleus. Now if COACH WOODEN-one can do his job well, they should take flight this season.
By Jake
September 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
I will say this for you Anders, you were brave enough to come on here after another crushing way to end the season. I haven’t seen the others around lately. I don’t know what you think as a Mets fan but I for one know that most of the blame for this latest late-season melt down will go on the bullpen, but some has to go with those hitters too. That game that they lost to the Cubs with no outs, a runner on 3rd and the middle of your lineup up was crushing. Not to mention all the runners they left on base in their last two series with my bravos. It’s harder to blow a lead when you give the bullpen plenty of runs to work with. Undoubtedly I think we can both say that both of these teams need some work done in the offseason. Once again I have to give much credit to C.C. That guy laid it all on the line. Almost tied the game himself on a homerun ball that just went foul. Kudos to the Brewers for not giving up after their manager was fired. There have been some great pitching performances down the stretch this season.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Brian
I never, ever claimed the Mets were the best - ever. I predicted before during and right up until the end of the season a close three team race (I was wrong on the Braves) that would go to the wire and who knows?
Perhaps someone on here would be fair enough to confirm this for you.
I’m thinking that the bottom of the 9th in game 162 is about as down to the wire as you can go -no?
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
MIBRAVE:
Maybe they buried the hatchet along with that toilet tissue.
By gotigers72
September 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
DOB - 2 questions. 1 - How often do you blog in the offseason? and 2 - If it were up to you, would you keep KJ at 2nd base or try to package him in a deal?
1 comment - Thanks for all the great blogs you do. I am disabled and do not get out much except for trips to the doctor’s offices. So Braves games and your blogs provide a lot of my entertainment during baseball season. I do like college fooball, but not pro football nor any basketball [yes I do know that your Jayhawks are champions], so I really hate when baseball season ends. I will look forward to any offseason blogs of yours. I even enjoy your forays into music although I don’t know most of the bands that you mention. As a child of the 60s, I am up with Classic Rock, Stones, Beatles, Led Zep, etc.
Have a great fall, winter and once again thanks for the free entertainment. You do a GREAT job!
By Johnson
September 28, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
Anders, What is the vibe in NYC about Manuel returning? He seems like a good baseball man who deserves a shot to stay. The bullpen issues certainly aren’t his fault. He tried every move in the book but the talent just wasn’t there after Wagner was injured.
Also, do they plan on demolishing Shea immediately, or are they keeping it up just in case CitiField isn’t ready to go in April (they kept ATL-FC stadium up in 1997)? I was at Shea in May for a relay for life event and Citi looks awesome.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Mitchell, for best groups to take the field at Shea, I’ll go: 1. The Clash, 2. Beatles, 3. The Who, 4. The Jets with Joe Willie
By Lew
September 28, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
Anders-I’m doing fine-better than the Mets, that’s for certain. Yes, I understand about Shea-I have a photo of the last day at The Launching Pad on the wall of the room that houses my baseball collection. I wouldn’t count on Oliver returning to the Mets, though. Someone may offer him better money and you have many holes to fill-as many as The Braves do.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
RichBrave
Appreciate it but I really don’t feel any pain from this. I think this years team really pushed as far and hard as they could given all the circumstances. Couple of key plays here or there might have made a difference for sure but I thought it would be tight this year and it was. Last years team should have run away with it and they collapsed at the end. That was much, much tougher to take because of expectations.
I think the Mets and Brewers are pretty even teams and it could have to either. Both have stars and flaws.
By Fred
September 28, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Anders, The earlier posting by fred was by a different guy. I’m assuming he isn’t a doctor. By the way, I respect the fact that you stay loyal to your team. I will always do the same with my Braves.
You know, all of us bloggers can analyze the season to death (or make excuses like injuries), but sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw. Both the Mets and Braves looked very good on paper coming into this season, as I’m sure they will next year because both teams have good front offices with available payroll. But I don’t understand those who blame the managers, they do the best they can with the players on the roster.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
Jake
You’re right about that Cubs game. I watched that in a bar in Memphis. Huge at bat by David Wright. From 3-0 to a strike out. But I felt the middle of the order was really pressing because they weren’t pitched to as much after Tatis and Easely went down. Sounds self serving but I watch almost every game like you guys do and you could see how teams changed their approach with all the young guys at the bottom half of the order.
Anyone seeing this closing ceremony at Shea? Really nicely done. They even brought back the Sey Hey kid, Willie Mays.
By Kelley
September 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Here’s hoping for an exciting off season and that Wren will really dazzle us.
I hate the season the Braves had, but to console myself, I just say to myself over and over again. “At least I am not a Mets fan, at least I am not a Mets fan….”.
Also giving me comfort, NO New York team in the playoffs, makes the Braves not being in a little easier.
Hoping for a Cubs/Devil Rays World Series, their poor fans deserve it.
By Bo
September 28, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Chipper #1. Thanks Man !!
DOB Thanks for all your hard work, music, news and tales. I didn’t always agree with you but I respect your opinion. Look forward to all the trade talk etc..Have a great winter. God Bless.
By Brian
September 28, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Anders- I’m so sorry I misunderstood you kind sir. Maybe that cockiness rubs me and others the wrong waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa- excuse me, I just CHOKED on a piece of pizza!!
By glad it's over
September 28, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
This is the Fred that posted earlier….
Sorry for the confusion, I’ve posted from time to time under this monicker, didn’t realize there was 2 of us (although I’m certainly not a Dr.) Since you’ve posted longer, I’ll come up with something else next year….
I also saw on ESPN where Acta survived, but all of his coaches didn’t…
That includes Pat Corrales
Would be nice to bring him & Yost back….
although I remember reading after Corrales left that Corrales and Cox didn’t exactly see eye to eye….I know that Corrales always had the braves (and Nats as well) hitters very well-positioned, plus his personality is more fiery than Cox’s sit on your butt, pick your nose, calm self….
Yost & Corrales could certainly show these younger Braves what it’s like to win……..
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
Johnson
The fans absolutely want Manuel back. The media is split. Many say they just can’t bring him to the new stadium if they don’t make the playoffs this year. Two of the guys saying that are Mike Lupica of the Daily News and Mike Francesa of WFAN, two pretty big hitters who can swing opinion and have clout.That worries me. Especially Francesa who will use this Met loss to cover his beloved $220 mil Yankee implosion. Minaya is on TV right now saying he wants to get the manager thing resolved as soon as possible. He doesn’t want it to linger. That sounds promising for Manuel since it could be 5 weeks before all the teams with possible candidates are available.
As for Shea, not sure when it’s coming down. They’re not imploding it (there’s plenty of jokes in that for you guys) but it’s being dismantled and sold piece by piece. The Mets don’t own Shea, the city does so they’re trying to make some money on it. Citifield does look nice but it will take years for it to take my heart. I’ve been to hundreds of games at Shea with many friends and family members. Shea closing is much more sad for me than the Mets losing today.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
September 28, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
As much as this season has sucked the sting of it has been lessened with the Mets missing the playoffs two years in a row. The fact that not only did they miss the playoffs but blew late season leads makes it even better. The Mets choked plain and simple.
But, to all my fellow Mets fans and bloggers look on the bright side. The Marlins did you a favor. They saved you from going into the playoffs with that AA bullpen and watching the Cubs blow your doors off with a three game sweeep. You now don’t have to buy your 2008 Mets playoff shirts only to burn them by next Sunday when the Mets are home and wondering what the hell happened.
Yes, the Braves sucked this year and made the playoffs but they have a multitude of injuries to many key players. What’s the Mets excuse? Moises Alou really make that much of a difference. And, don’t give me any Billy Wagner crap because that bullpen sucked when he was in it.
On to the 2008 playoffs that will be so sweet because the Mets nor the Yankees will be in it. And speaking of the Yankees does anyone else find it humorous that the Mets are so inept they couldn’t even take advantage of the fact the Yankees missed the playoffs. The Mets had a chance to be the toast of New York instead of the “other” team and they still couldn’t get the job done.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Fred
My apologies. I never saw a Fred on here and certainly didn’t think I’d see two in about 12 hours.
As for the managers, I will say that I was dead against firing Willie Randolph. Apparently I couldn’t have been more wrong. I still have no idea what the problem between Willie and the team was (especially Delgado and Reyes) but look what happened after they canned him.
That’s the kind of thing the GM has to stay close to and monitor I guess.
By Johnson
September 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Anders, Thanks for the information. I can’t believe that sports talk show hosts could have a significant impact on the manager issue, but I don’t live in NYC and sports talk radio isn’t as big here in Atlanta. Even though I am a Braves fan, I have to pull for a guy like Manuel to be retained.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Robert (Chipper is Best)
Met’s injuries? They played the whole year without thei left fielder, half the year without the rightfielder and he never really came back to what he was in April. Pedro missed three months. All three catchers spent weeks on the DL. John Maine went down with more than 6 weeks left as did Wagner, Castillo hardly ever played. Tatis and Easely both went down in late August. There were various others I missed. Not saying we had more than the Braves etc, just saying with all that I’m pretty happy to be playing a meaningful game in game 162.
I agree their bullpen was putrid -this still mystifies me that all those guys could go bad at once.
BTW-John Heyman just announced that the Mets are bringing Manuel back next year and beyond. That’s a good start to the off season.
By braves70
September 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Whew…. we made it to the end of the 2008 season. I was not sure we would ever see it the way things went. Thanks to DOB and all on here for a good year of conversation, frustration release, and sorrow-sharing. Thank you to Skip Carey for all the fun years and you will always have a place in our hearts, lives, and blog. Thanks to any Braves who may have played their last game (Smoltz,Glavine,Hampton, etc.) You made or lives so much more interesting and fun. We survived 2008 so we should be able to survive just about anything from now on. Here is to better days in 2009.
By McFann O zz
September 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
So…The Silver Sluggers are announced the first week of November, right?
Robert CIB As much as this season has [stunk] the sting of it has been lessened with the Mets missing the playoffs two years in a row.
Yeah, maybe that took a little teeny-tiny bit of the sting out. But the last out of the year is still the image that remains freshest in the mind—and I wish it would leave me alone.
And he just needed 3 RBI to get to 90…and he hadn’t hit a homer in a month…that was the moment…
And now it’s all over.
By helopilot
September 28, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
anders, Long time reader who stays in the shadows. I am always amused with the back and forth barbs between you and the bravo faithful. You make me mad on many occasions (I know that’s what you want), but today, my sympathies are with you. Yes, I’m glad to see the Mets lose, but losing your stadium at the same time is simply a bad day in anyones book. Keep your chin up, and have a good off-season.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Helopilot
Thanks for the nice words. I really don’t want to get Braves fans mad. I do want to win my arguments that’s for sure.I do throw the occasional sarcastic jab etc but I think you’d agree that that’s par for the course on here including the blogmaster. Believe me being out numbered about 200 to 1 is overwhelming at times and I definetly get short from it but I choose to come here so I have to take what I get.
Take care. Post whenever. It’s good excercise for us all.
By StingerSplash
September 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
In our season of despair, there is some joy to take from the misery of others. To wit: The only postseason baseball in New York will be on television. Bwaahahahahahahahahahaha! DOB, enjoy some welcome time off come November, since I’m sure you’ll be paying attention to the playoffs and going to the World Series. Unless the AJC has cut that travel budget out, too.
By BossLady
September 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Well, I am glad to see the mets lose. It is no reason to sit up here pretending I feel bad about it.
By Metropolitan Man
September 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
Ok, everything you guys said about my METS at this current time (and past) is warranted. There is no defending this second place loser team this time around. They killed me slower this year than last. I’m hurt and upset to the point where I’m not even in the mood to defend them so have a ball tearing them down. Maybe a new team will show up with a new stadium next year. There is no solace anywhere about what happened. Those Marlins should have a very entertaining ride home, joking about how they made the METS cry 2 years in a row, amazing. Its amazing what a bullpen can do over a course of a season, be a saviour or a rallying cry for the opposing team. Hot Stove, here I come.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
The free agent pitcher’s name that keeps coming up in the clubhouse: Derek Lowe.
Seems like the Braves, talking among themselves, pretty much all agree he’s the guy the team should target, because of his reliability, durability, relative affordability, etc.
They all seem to know the Braves couldn’t win a bidding war for Sabathia, and many Braves I’ve talked to say Sheets is not the guy for this team because of all his injuries.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Here’s what Bobby said when I asked him, with no one else around, about Smoltz possibly returning:
“Oh, he’ll be back. No doubt in my mind.”
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Anders
Tough loss man. My brother, and most of my friends, are Met fans. I haven’t given them a call yet, but I am sure they are pretty down. Not sure what exactly they should do. I wouldn’t make a dramatic change like trading Carlos Beltran because “the core needs to be changed”. He is still a very good player. I think bringing back Ollie and Delgado would be a good thing. Obviously, the bullpen needs to be fixed. I’m sure a lot of Met fans will be screaming for K-Rod. LF and 2nd base need to be changed as well. They should consider Magglio Ordonez if he is available. Also, Orlando Hudson will probably be looked at for 2nd base. Anyways, like I said, tough loss.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
gotigers72: Thanks much.
We’ll probably post one or two new blogs a week during the offseason, depending upon the volume of activity here, the number of comments and page hits.
We’ll do more as merited, and certainly more during he busier times, like the winter meetings, when we’ll blog every day, or after any big trade or signing.
Oh, and yes, I’d keep Johnson, unless absolutely blown away by a trade offer. He’s too valuable offensively, too big a hole opened because whoever you get to play second is almost certainly not going to produce anywhere near his overall numbers.
And like I’ve said, he really didn’t cost the Braves more than a game or two directly with defense — and there are several other guys on the team you can point to who made a play or two that cost the Braves a game or a couple of games.
By Brian
September 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
Most of O’Brien’s conversations with Bobby Cox begin with: “Here’s what Brian posted earlier….” I know, I know
By Metropolitan Man
September 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
What, I just read the comments above about METS fans being cowards. That title is appropriate for front runners, but not this die hard. I took lumps last year, and now I expect to take them again. The text messages from stankees fans, braves fans, and that 1 philthies fans won’t stop. People who don’t even like baseball are trying to console me but to no avail. I know the score, you show up here win or lose and take the good with the bad. I just hope the Brew Crew go far and meet the Rays, that would make for a good ending. There is nothing to brag about, just binge drinking.
By McFann O zz
September 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
DOB—
Thanks for the Blogs! This was a cruddy season, but hey—always fun to talk about stuff on here.
I look forward to the off-season stuff from you. I got my bloggin’ started in the off-season last year, and it was nice to come on here and talk Braves even when they weren’t playing.
So thanks.
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Two years in a row with 17 left to go a big lead is blown. Wasn’t 17 the number of Keith Hernandez when he was a Met? I don’t know what he’s done to cause it but it seems like there may be a Mex Hex on the Mets going on here.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Like I said earlier today I’m not shocked by this years shortfall and I actually think they gave it a good shot all things considered. No way I move Beltran. Show me a CF who gives you everything he does. He drives me crazy with what appears to be lack of passion but much like you guys had with AJ I think we’re spoiled with how easily he covers more than most in CF plus he always puts up the numbers. Delgado is a slam dunk return. Of course Reyes and Wright aren’t going anywhere. Church and Schneider come back too. Hudson really wants to play for the Mets and he’s a FA. The Mets have to find a way to get rid of Castillo. The may have to make a trade and pay trade like you guys got with Hampton. As for Ollie - have to see what the $’s are. I’m still not convinced he’s a top flight starter. Just not consistent enough, but it’s gonna be a sellers market so….
As for the bullpen - not sure how to figure this out. Everyone has problems there. Not as deep as the Mets but enough to make that a tough market too. K-Rod will cost a fortune. Not sure I’d spend it on a reliever. I don’t know how used up he is as he’s in the AL on the west coast and we barely see him. I’d rather try and get someone like Fuentes.
I’m glad Manuel is coming back. The guy’s a natural in NYC. I love when he calls a guy who over performs Gangsta. That’s what he called Santana yesterday.
I think Minaya might make a play for Manny Ramirez. He loves the guy. We’ll see.
Take care - always good posting with you.You into hockey - I’m just as big a Rangers fan. Time to drop the puck!
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
CARROLL RODGERS:
Hail to the redskins.!!!! Sorry CARROLL.
We tied with SAN FRAN for 6th worst record in ML baseball. Jeeze. Do you know the tie-breaker rules for the draft.? Head-to-head I presume.? If they nose us out of 6th my prognostication unfortunately becomes fact.
Don’t know if there are enough signable top-notch strong-armed youngsters to make a seventh pick a good one. By the seventh pick certainly all the best left-handers will be in someone else’s sights. Maybe an outfielder would be better. 2007’s HEYWOOD seems to be working out well.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
DOB
Not sure if you’re still around but I have a question I’ve always wondered about. When teams are in a place like the Mets were this week are there guys who’d rather lose because they have plenty of money anyway and they’d rather hop a plane to the carribean than deal with the playoffs? I realize some of these guys aren’t as emotionally invested in the teams as many of us fans are. - I guess what I mean is have you actually come across some and is it prevalent on many teams or very rare? Just wondering.
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
Do you have any contact with PAUL SNYDER as to who he feels would make a good #7. Or is he just not going to be involved in any way, even prognostications.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
The Mex Hex. Not bad.
Of course you guys just went the through the “Frenchy Revulsion” as your whole season was Atlanta’s version of Les Miserables!
By fastasballs
September 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
richbrave, Great game by the Skins today! They really moved the ball on the Cowboys & the D shut down their ground game.
As for the Braves I’m excited the offseason has began. There is a good feeling about putting a 90 loss season in the past. I’m hoping Wren can makes the needed moves without gutting the farm system in the process.
I’m for bringing Hampton back. He seems to show some loyalty to the Braves. Hopefully this isn’t just some lip service for the press, but a real feeling on his part.
Lowe would be a good pick up. CC is too expensive & Sheets is a walking injury. I’d stick with Lowe & maybe a trade for someone like Peavy. The rotation would look good with JJ, Lowe, Peavy, Hampton & Morton/Hanson/Parr. I assume Jo Jo & James won’t be options next year.
By Dawg hatin' Jacket
September 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Thanks Chipper for one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dismal season. I don’t think the average Braves fan appreciates how very special you are. I just hope Braves management does and will let you retire a Brave. Good luck in ‘09.
By JJMB
September 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Damn, that was great to see all those glum NYMut faces! Almost makes up for Atlanta’s useless season. No muts and no yankees. Got to love that!
Congrats CHIPPA!
By richbrave
September 28, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
fastaballs:
Yeah, I was surprised by DOB’s quotes of HAMPTON’s take on his future status with the BRAVES. Pleasantly surprised. If my comment about giving TAVARAS a look in ST was valid, then the BRAVES should do all that is reasonable to see HAMPTON is on the mound next year. I really felt that he would be unwilling to give the BRAVES some consideration as to length and incentive conditions in his new contract. Thats quite encouraging.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 28, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
I like Derek Lowe to, but…. his elbow problems earlier this season combined the hip and groin issues in 2007 and age (35) have me just a bit skittish about pursuing the right handed pitcher.
The one pitcher who intrigue’s me the most is Jon Garland. Not because he is that great, it’s because he is durable, dependable and eats innings, is just 28, has never had any arm or shoulder issues and I think his stuff is better suited for the N.L
Lowe is by far the better of the two pitchers. He’s also more prone to break down or have arm problems.
I also really like the Angels Juan Rivera who has been more productive as a back up in 2008 than any of the Braves current outfielders. If given 500 at bats, Rivera projects to around 25 HR’s and 90 RBI while batting around .280-.285. his defense is outstanding and Rivera plays RF or LF equally well.
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Anders
Huge Penguins fan. It’s the Red Wings and everyone else this season. Should be interesting. Satan and Fedotenko replacing Hossa and Malone will probably not work out as well, of course.
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Anders
as a rookie blogger i have stayed away from you often inflammatory comments concerning the mets, as annoying as they have been (which i am assuming was part of the purpose) but I have to give props when they are due…it takes a die hard fan, and a stand up guy, to come back and take the lumps you knew were coming (and if I may say so- deserved)so all the credit to you (although I will not say I am sorry- the only thing that makes me happier then the mets collapsing again is the yankees missing the playoffs…) I always enjoy a good rivalry and you have certainly provided the fire…here’s to better luck (at least for us) next year
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
Fastasballs
I’d stick with Lowe & maybe a trade for someone like Peavy.
Oh is that all? Sure you don’t want Wren to pick up Pujols while he’s at the market?
You know what Peavy would cost? Start with your catcher or shortstop -maybe both.
By McFann O zz
September 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
BTW—
Exciting to read that Chipper—I mean, U Kno Who—plans to join us again this off-season! It’s extremely sweet to chat with a future HOF’er!
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Cabracesfan
Right back at ya. No problem with you dancing on the Met’s grave. Wouldn’t expect less.
I try to be funny,sarcastic and some times cutting but not annoying or inflaming (for the most part). But I get how most think that - no problem
Take care.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I think we’ve found something we disagree on, lol….I’m a (huge) Red Wings fan. I agree that the Wings will be dominant with Hossa in the fold. Babcock does a great job with that team, IMO
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Anders, now that (9:05) was funny. Love the retort.
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Derek Lowe,A.J. Burnett,then swing a deal with Pitt for Mc;outh,and Maholm. Send Ol French Fry to colorado,with Bigears Lillibridge,for Holliday. ink up,Juan Rivera… and Stay the He11 away From Tom Glavine!!! That’s where I’d start!!!
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Feeling the love DOB. Just feeling the love.
Who know’s what’s posible? Maybe we can fix this Middle East mess after all?
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
D.O.B.,Dude we’ll miss ya on the Rude Awakining… Next time Your by the station ,at 5:30 or so,Please Slap the Taste out of John Koolaids Mouth….
By fastasballs
September 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Anders I know you’re a bit miffed about the Mets losing out on the post season, yet again, but cool your little snide remarks.
The Padres are going to cut salary from everything I have read & heard. Have any inside news on the Pads you would like share? I didn’t think so.
I’m not sure what he would cost & neither do you for that matter. I was simply stating an idea, you know the kind of stuff that’s floated around in the offseason on baseball blogs.
I’m sure you probably was shocked when the Braves traded for Hudson. The Braves have historically traded for their better players or developed them through the farm system. Maybe this will change, but if it doesn’t don’t be too surprised if Wren pulls off a deal for him or another proven young starter. Might very well be expensive, but it won’t be our SS & catcher.
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Maybe even take a flyer on Oliver Perez.. if nothing more than just cause the Mutts some more AGONY!!
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Anders
Yes, Peavy would cost a boatload.
Steve from OH
Last years loss still hurts. It’s just a matter of time for the Penguins. They will win it all at some point…..it just won’t be this season. Babcock is the best. The team is a machine. It will be scary how dominant they are this year.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave meet Fastasballs. Fastasballs meet JoeBrave.
The fantasy league meetings will commence next Sunday at 9:00 PM at the Applebee’s in Norcross.
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
I’ll wager that CC gets the highest averag annual salary for a pitcher in history. Don’t know if he’ll get a long enough deal to make it the largest total package for a pitcher, but I bet it’ll be the highest per-year salary. About $20 mill per year.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Efrim
The Pens huh? How’d that happen? Aren’t you in CT? The Bruins? Rangers? or even the Whalers/Canes if you’re old enough areall closer.
Do you go the garden for games? Great place to see a hockey game although nothing like it used to be before they Disneyized it in the early ‘90’s.
By ObiWanKobe
September 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
DOB, You need to get the new Jenny Lewis. It’s called “Acid Tounge”
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Joebrave, I’ll miss doing that. I liked talking to those dudes in the morning, and having them play my selected tunes. Very cool of them to do that.
Maybe they’ll want to do something from time to time during the winter, since it’s gonna be busy (hint, hint, 680 decision-makers who write the checks).
By McFann O zz
September 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
You know what Peavy would cost? Start with your catcher or shortstop -maybe both.
Yowza! No way.
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Folks, I’ll be happy with a Derek Lowe signing and a trade for a left fielder. Burnett, Lowe, Mclouth, Peavy, etc. One of those things happening would be great, I am not counting on 11 moves or something. Hey, it’s great to dream.
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Babcock is the best.
This marks the first time in Atlanta history that anyone has uttered Babcock and “the best” in the same sentence. The idiot traded Dominique. :)
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Anders,I see You’re Hanging around here trying to build up your self esteem from yet another season ending Choke Job,by Your Precious Mutts!!! He11 Yes If I were Wren,Oliver Perez would be the First Player signed… and in case You have’nt noticed. A.j. Burnett wants to play closer to his Arkansas Home,Derek Lowe has long wanted to Play for Bobby Cox,and any deal with Pitt is Probably a doable thing,,only Holliday is Questionable,But on the other hand Is it?????? Anything is possible,and the New York By god Mutts are Not the only Team with money to spend.. Maybe they should hire a Shrink with some of it!!!
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
I don’t agree with fastasballs about Peavy,He will cost and dearly… But the aforementioned won’t be quite as Expensive proposition… And by the way I believe Rivera is a Free Agent this year.. And Frenh Fry needs a new Home!!!
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Anders, regarding your question at 8:41: I’ve never, ever heard it even whispered that a team had guys not trying to win so they could skip the postseason and go home. Never even heard anything remotely like that.
By RMR
September 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Joebrave, sounds like a fantasy squad your putting together there. But this is the fun part of the offseason. Enjoy man!!!!
By Efrim
September 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Anders
Yup, CT. Super Mario man. Gotta love him. Pretty unbelieveable that Sid the Kid and Geno are on that team right now. The amount of talent in that organization over the last twenty years is crazy.
I have actually never been to the Garden, but I plan to get there this season. At least I think so. Who knows with work.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
DOB
Absolutely agree on CC. In a weird way I think he hurt himself a little today by knocking the Mets out. If the Mets were in Hankenstein would not be able to control himself at all. He’s already blaming everything but the Wall Street mess for what happened to the Yanks this year. Watching Santana yesterday must have been excrutiating for Hank. He wanted Santana and gave in to Cashman to keep the kids who had a grand total of zero wins this year and Melky Cabrera who was sent to triple A in July. No way he lets the big fish get away again unless CC doesn’t want to go there.
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
D.O.B next time Your up around my neck of the woods You should check out the Oyster Pub in Rocky Face,Greatest Burger,and Fried Shrooms on the Planet…
By Anders
September 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave
What Efrim said at 9;46.
By JJMB
September 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Yeah DOB, I really enjoyed your pm 680 spots. Good stuff. I’d like it if you could get your own radio show of some sort.
(Not that I’m that crazy about you, but you’re better than 98% in the Atlanta market).
8^Þ
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Fanatsy??? A.J. Burnett,Derek Lowe,and Oliver Perez.. Where is the Fantasy,Hell even if You keep French fry,and sign Juan Rivera,all You have to do is pull one deal with Pitt. very doable Very doable… Big Ears Lillibridge,Jo Jo,C Sammons,and a minor leaguer should be enough to git-r-done…for Maholm,and Mclouth…
By David O'Brien
September 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
ObiWanKobe, we’re gonna go see Jenny Lewis this week at Variety in Atlanta, I think. I’ll buy the CD it at the show, cut out the middleman. I was just playing “Rabbit Fur Coat” last week. Great voice.
Her and Neko Case, and my girl, the curvaceous Kelly Hogan, all are terrific.
By Tomas
September 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
The Mets choke again, amazing.
Looking to next season:
Marlins: They are the team to beat. They have a very strong staring rotaion with Josh Johnson, Chris Volstad, Ricky Nolasco, Scott Olsen, and Anibal Sanchez. A good bulpen with Lindstrom, Pinto, Nelson, Gregg(he may be traded), and Logan Kensing. There offense is looking good with Maybin, Hanley, Jacobs, Cantu, Willingham, and Uggla, they strikeout a lot but also hit for a lot of power, and with Maybin there offense will improve. Defense is their weakness. Uggla has occational trouble, as well as both Cantu, and Hanley.
Phillies: Any time you have a lineup with Rollins, Utley, and Howard, they have a really good chance, and with Werth, and Victorino they have the potential to put big numbers on the board. Their bulpen is great, and have good defense. From what i’ve heard, I think the phillies don’t want Burrell back, that will improve their defense but affect their offense, and will not be as fearfull as before. Their weakness is definitely their starting pitching. Hamels, and Myers were their aces, but Moyer was the most important pitcher down the stretch. Moyer is the oldest active player in the majors and he just won 16 games, he is a free agent, my guess is the phillies want him back. Myers has been inconsistent his whole career, but who knows he might have finally found what has made him succesful. Blanton is an innings eater, but he is no more than a #4 guy, and Happ is a mistery still as every young pitcher is. He has looked good but he doesn’t have awesome stuff, and maybe he has just been lucky, like Parr was in his first two starts.
Mets: Another choke. Dejavu. With Delgado, Reyes, Wright, and Beltran they make that lineup look good, but their complimentary players are just pathetic. After a strong start Church really struggled, Castillo never came back to be the player he was, and Castro and Schneider didn’t do a good job at the plate. They have very good starting pitching with Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, Martinez, and maybe Perez(if they resign him, they also have rookie Niese). They also benefit from good defense from everywhere except left field. Their main weakness is there bulpen, especially when they won’t have Wagner next year. They need to be drastic and sign K-rod, and at least two other reliable relievers, lets see if Minaya is given the money to do it. It’s New York, money is not a problem for either new york team. They have practically traded there farm, so there changes will need to come via free agency.
Braves: Where do I begin? They need a power hitter via free agency or trade(without trading Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, or Morton). The power hitter needs to be one of this: Magglio, Burrell, Dunn, Huff, Wigginton, or Cameron. They have the potencial to have an extraordinary bulpen if they get Soriano, and Moylan back from injury, and hopefully resign Ohman. The biggest weakness, definitely the starting rotation and vulnerbility to injuries. Smoltz, and Glavine can’t be counted on, and they need at least three starting pitchers from the market. This offseason is the perfect one to fill that need. With pitchers like CC, Sheets, Burnett, Dempster, Lowe, Hampton, Garland, Oliver Perez, and Kyle Lohse. CC is in pinstripes next year so no need to dream on him, and Sheets gets injured too often, so that leaves the Braves with Burnett, Dempster, Lowe, Hampton, Garland, Perez, and Lohse as their options.
Washington: Why boder?
By Joebrave
September 28, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Anders, Just what do You know about the Braves????? Your Mutts can only dream of what this team has accomplished…
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I agree that the Pens will win it eventually…Crosby and Malkin are the most talented duo in the game (Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better coached, IMO). Just gotta work on that supporting cast.
By NO MORE BOBBY
September 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!!!!
By Anders
September 28, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Dob
Thanks for the answer. Just something I’ve often wondered.
Efrim
You should try to get to Montreal for a game too. The passion up there is unbelievable! It’s absolutely religion. I’ve seen Sid The Kid up there a couple of seasons ago on Super Bowl Sunday. He was wheeling around in OT trying to make like it was peewee hockey and they just picked the puck off his stick and went the other way for the game winner as he laid on the ice on his stomach spinning. The fans gave him the business that day.
He’s matured a lot since then. The guy is amazing but I actually like Malkin better.
By THB
September 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Anders-I’m from CT, like Efrim, and I go to to school at Hofstra. The Rangers are right in my backyard, literally. I’m not a big hockey fan, maybe I’ll catch a few games this year.
By cabravesfan
September 28, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
NFL just announced Springsteen and the E street band playing at half time of the Super Bowl… about time they got back to some good music
By Tomas
September 28, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
CC matched Santana’s performance. Imagine if the Mets signed him. That rotation would immediately be the best, but that would be stupid, because their strength is their rotation already.
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
I like Derek Lowe on a 3-year deal. Another name to consider is Brad Penny, who will have his option declined by LA this offseason. Injuries worry me, sure, but Penny has #1 or #2 stuff when healthy. We don’t need back-of-the rotation guys (Garland), we’ve got plenty of ‘em in Morton, JoJo, Parr, Hanson, Redmond, et al.
Garland’s fine as sort of a last resort. I don’t like him on any kind of a long-term deal, especially since all signs seem to be pointing towards a decline. But hey, he’s still young, and could very well turn it around. Just think he’s going to get too much loot.
Rivera? No thanks (career OBP: .331, SLG: .468. Pretty average. We can do better). Huff, Wigginton, et al? No thanks.
Magglio Ordonez? Yes please. We’ve got the pieces and the cash. If FW thinks he can fix the pitching after pulling of that deal, then let’s get it done.
By Anders
September 28, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
THB
I’m not a big hockey fan,
You just proved your point. That team in your backyard by Hofstra are the Islanders. The Rangers play in Manhattan. The Islandersarena is a dump. Looks like a cesspool and doesn’t dissapoint that fact once inside.
See, we got two of everything here. That’s why I’m so used to all this confrontation.
Hofstra’s a pretty good school. You studying Law?
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
Did John Kruk just say that he wasn’t sure if Philadelphia would be better with Pujols than with Howard? Is he joking?
By Steve from OH
September 28, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Did John Kruk just say that he wasn’t sure if Philadelphia would be better with Pujols than with Howard? Is he joking? Is he drunk?
By spotts
September 28, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
We couldn’t win this year…how are we going to win next year when we’re shopping from the bargain bin?!
It’s like trying to find a prom outfit at Target.
By Braveheart
September 28, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
You just proved your point. That team in your backyard by Hofstra are the Islanders. The Rangers play in Manhattan. The Islandersarena is a dump. Looks like a cesspool and doesn’t dissapoint that fact once inside.
Oh, the Nassau Coliseum ain’t all bad. I saw Andre The Giant, Kamala, and Mr. Fuji throw down there once when I was a kid.
By RMR
September 28, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
I can honestly see us going after Burnett and Perez, based solely on age and their strengths- they are power pitchers. I can see us going after Lowe as well, an innings eater who would possibly replace Hampton(if we don’t sign him back, which I think we should to anchor the bottom of the rotation). I am not sure who we should go after as far as a power hitting OF is concerned. I thought the Braves were looking for a RH power hitting OF? Like Magglio’s bat but not his contract for someone at his age(going to be 35 to start next season). T
By Eddie C
September 28, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
In addition to many other changes we need Chipper to play more games healthy next year. Unsaid in his interview is this: I don’t think Chipper thinks he needs to do any off season conditioning, that his natural athleticism will do. In some ways I see a parallel with Michael Vick here. I think he thinks he can just show up and play and not worry about off season work. I know it is just one man’s opinion, but that’s the way I see it.
By Brian
September 28, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
I’d think Penny would be overprised since he is an injury concern. But if he’ll sign for say 5-7 mill., why not? Now I think if they sign Hampton, the chances of them signing Penny are slim to none. Don’t see’em having 2… well, you know!
By Anders
September 28, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
They haven’t put a nickel in that place since Andre the Giant was there. They’re working on a replacement arena but it’s all caught up in red tape. The Islanders just don’t have the following they need.
Eddie C
What you saw is what you get with Chipper. Figure 120 games per year at best. That’s why he should go to the AL and DH 50gams a year IMO.
By wiki
September 28, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
So Santana gets traded and misses the playoffs…..his former team is still alive. I guess it’s a team game.
By MIBravesFan
September 28, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Hey Richbrave —
You are the piece of toilet tissue.
By Greg in TN
September 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Anders and MetroMan: Have to say, kudos to you both for coming out today after the day you guys have had. I respect that. I know Sniper is a lost cause, all he wants to do is come on here and jaw and then disappear at times like this, but that’s cool too. We expect that from him.
Just saw the video of the hit Anquan Boldin took today from the Jets. Downright scary.
Efrim: I am right there with you on your ideas at 9:46. Lowe makes the most sense to me and then see what can be had via trade.
It’ll be an interesting offseason to see what Frank Wren does as an encore to year one. He’ll have more money to play with than what JS had in his last few years in the GM chair, but I don’t expect any changes in the modus operandi. The team will make competitive offers, but I don’t see them overpaying for anyone.
The season certainly did not meet expectations of Planet Braves for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum here. Of all the coaches on staff, I believe Roger McDowell did the best job of making the most of what he had to work with this season. By far the biggest surprise was the season Jair Jurrjens gave us with the biggest disappointment was the step back from Francoeur (which is stating the obvious for most everyone, I know).
Will Francoeur bounce back next year? I really don’t know if he will or if he won’t but I also think he should be given the chance to see. Center will be an interesting race in the spring between Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer. Right now I believe Anderson has the slight edge due to Schafer having to sit out 50 games earlier this year.
Obviously left field is to be determined. Of all the names that have been tossed out, Pat Burrell makes the most sense to me, however I realize there are other options out there, perhaps someone not even on the radar at this point that we could acquire via trade.
I have no real problems with the infield coming back. Certainly would love to see Chipper play more games and maybe he’ll be able to do so next year. I am convinced that if some got their way and he was traded, the replacement at third wouldn’t give us half of what the Offensive Assassin gives us.
Escobar has had some flashes of brilliance at short and he’s also showed us some flashes that proves he’s still young. KJ ended the season on fire, however he’s been prone to streaks and had the infamous drop. I do think we can expect more from both next season. I also think we’re fine at first with Kotchman and we’re certainly set behind the plate with everyone’s favorite catcher, albeit with much less hair at the present time.
There’s lots of questions in terms of the pitching staff for ‘09. Jurrjens and then what? I think making an offer and trying to get Hampton back for next year makes sense to me. I don’t have any expectations that either Smoltz or Glavine will be back. We get Gonzo back even more stronger than he was this year, we’ll see Moylan back. I am hopeful the bully will be stronger next year, barring injuries again.
DOB, Carroll, need to add my appreciation to you both for what you’ve done this year. Thanks again for all your hard work this season. I look forward to more as we go into the offseason and next year.
By doc
September 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
richie boy, if you spent some time in jerome i now understand where your brain oot tweaked. heh heh, me? i got mine done in under the big new mexico skies of taos.
great year dob with little to work with. also enjoyed the tight early morning gig on 680. wednesday was my day to head downtown about the time you were on. made the trip very enjoyable, really i looked forward to your company. just hope the bravos can be as strong as you and the members of this blog.
now to look forward to your takes on the baseball series ……
By THB
September 28, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
Anders-Wow, I actually did know the Islanders play there. Sort of a brainfart, sort of me being stupid and not knowing much. Anyway, I don’t study law there, but I’m on the wrestling team which takes up most of my time. I went to the Mets game on Saturday with my girlfriend (Who is a mets fan, nonetheless) and I gotta admit Santana put on quite a show.
By Brian
September 28, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Anders- Are you still here? Damn, what does it take to get rid of you, anyway?
By RMR
September 28, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
Steve**
I had been talking up Brad Penny for a while. My potential targets were people I thought the Braves had a shot at realistically. I had Penny, Perez and Carl Pavano(yes-Pavano) as possible targets. I am certain Burnett just wants more $$. Not shot at CC, and Sheets is an injury risk, a huge one at that but also he is one guy I’d consider because he makes the Braves look silly, every time they face him. Dempster is sort of like Hampton, he feels kind of indebted to the Cubs because they stuck by him, waiting for him to get healthy after he was ousted by Florida and Cincy. That is why I didn’t ever consider him as a target. Plus if the Braves are going to spend big money to acquire a Power Hitting OF(Dye or Ordonez), I am not sure they are going to shell out all this cash for pitchers as well. Penny is now probably a Type C FA, mostly due to the injuries. So if we sign him, it wont cost us anything other than money. Same goes for Pavano. Perez, will for some odd reason be a Type A(Boras as far as I know doesnt have any potential FA’s who aren’t Type A’s). Perez is someone I go after for 3 reasons. One, because he is similar to Sheets-always pitches the Braves tough. Two, he is a lefty starting power pitcher. The Braves never had one of those in the rotation during the Braves run. Three, we can have him stick it to the Mets as every time he pitches because he would always face one of their top 3 pitchers and would get up for them all the time.
By Mitchie-san
September 29, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
Wayne Thanks for the nice things you said the other day.
DOB I got me some shore duty out here in Hawaii. I am looking forward to giving some scouting reports on some of the winter league guys. I’ll be able to be a little more proactive on the blog now that I am in a house, not a ship!
By Patrick
September 29, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
It was great as a Braves fan to see the Mets wet the bed again. Who really chokes? Those that make it to the playoffs and lose or those that get close to the playoffs and lose amd lose badly?
Go Braves in 2009….I see a Cubs vs Rays World Series
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
Anders and MetroMan: Have to say, kudos to you both for coming out today after the day you guys have had. * *Greg in TN **
Same here…….just cant ignore that.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this
Who do the Mets hate more? The Braves? the Phillies…………..or the Fish?
Our organization is so powerful, we have managed to spoil mets playoff hopes without even playing in the same field last 2 season…………1st we managed to send Glavine over to NY and tell him to spoil their dreams in the very 1st innings………….this year, we send former Brave Wes Helms and spoil their dreams at the end.
I thought the Braves were the chokers………. but at least we used to get to the playoffs before choking and we got their in very good fashion, with style. Muts talk about Braves choking……….shame shame.
last but not least……….Hey Carlos Beltran………Im really sorry that the team to beat is not in the playoffs……….better ask JRo whats the formula for saying thing and for them to become reality. Better look around what your team looks like and who your teamates are before spiting out such arrogant words…………TEAM TO BEAT……..yeah right.
By P-Town Brave
September 29, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
RMR
I’m pretty sure w/ our season that our draft pick is protected…that means no matter if we go after a Type A we don’t lose our #1…
That being said, I do really like Lowe and Perez…I think they would both do well in the ATL…and I may even be acclimated to Sheets…however like everyone else injuries are a concern as we’ve had so many problems w/ them ourselves…
Garland…um…no
Along w/ that I also agree that Hampton on an incentive contract would be good for both parties.
Ordonez is my pick to play RF for the Braves next year…and to the ppl questioning his age….look at his numbers…no real slowdown there…he’d be money in Atlanta…and yes, I did say RF as I would be moving the fastly declining range of Francoeur to LF….Anderson would be my CF….
Finally the IF..everything looks pretty pieced together but 2b…and maybe thats where we get our other starting arm or possibly a power hitting OF…if we went towards Dye, seems to me the Sox are in need of a 2b when Ramirez moves to SS after Cabrera leaves this offseason, and I’d love to right the wrong that was made when we traded Jermaine away…although I think Maggs is a bit better of a hitter…
Anyways, at 2b…Martin Prado…
My question is this….how did you forget him in your talk about 2b DOB? It just really doesn’t make sense to me….play MUCH better D than Kelly and his bat has been nothing but the model of consistency for the Braves most of the year.
By P-Town Brave
September 29, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this
Doc
If they were the supposed team to beat…the Marlins have no problem sending them home packing year in and year out now…lol…its becoming an annual ritual to mark on my calendar.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
The five greatest switch hitters in Major League history.
Mickey Mantle is number one. The following four can can go in any order.
Eddie Murray, Chipper Jones, Frankie Frisch and Pete Rose. Three are in the Hall of Fame, Rose is ineligible and Chipper is still playing.
Other players of note are Lance Berkman, Bernie Williams, Tim Raines, Roberto Alomar, Willie Wilson, Ted Simmons, Reggie Smith and George Davis.
I intentionally left Ozzie Smith out of the picture because it’s conclusive that he got into the Hall of Fame on the strength of his defensive prowess and not with the bat.
By N8
September 29, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
DOB
Fine job this season (I’m not forgetting about your effort either, Carroll), on keeping the BEST blog in ALL OF SPORTS going strong all season.
I’m very much looking forward to the off-season as I always do. This one even more than most. It’s gonna be interesting to see how Wren puts this thing together.
A few thoughts:
1) After reading Hampton’s comments about “owing the Braves some loyalty, I think he’ll be back. As he should. I think it will be below market value, and he’ll fit in nicely as the 5th starter.
There are enough young guys on the radar to overtake him in the rotation, should he falter. The added bonus, is that if he pitches like he did the past month or so, he’ll be a FINE addition to anybody’s rotation. As always, more a matter of health than ability. The guy obviously STILL knows how to pitch.
2) Derek Lowe SHOULD be the main target for the rotation. Period.
I suspect another trade will be worked out as well. That way the Braves can take their time with the kids.
3) IF Hudson comes back at any time next season. BONUS.
4) IF Smoltz is back (I presume in the bullpen), as Bobby all but guaranteed he would be, BONUS.
5) As for Glavine? Not sure what to think there. If healthy, affordable and willing (on both his part and the Braves), he still wouldn’t be a bad guy to have around.
6) All of that being said, if Wren makes the mistake of hinging the Braves post-season hopes on the trio of Smoltz, Glavine and Hampton, I suspect that the end result won’t be much different than 2008’s results were.
7) As for the everyday lineup? I think this is where Wren will sink or swim with the 2009 Braves. I honestly believe that the rotation and bullpen (provided Gonzo is healthy all year - and FULLY recovered and confident) will take care of itself. Of course that hinges on acquiring a guy of Lowe’s ability and DURABILITY.
But that lineup. Some major shake-up might be in order to not garner the same results as this past year.
The “shake-up” could simply mean giving Jordan Shafer the job in CF. Or it could mean addition by subtraction in RF with Francoeur. Not that the Braves should give up on him, but if the TEAM could be “bettered” by trading them, then DO IT!
Will KJ be back at 2B? Don’t know. Add to that, I don’t have a clear cut opinion on whether he should or shouldn’t. I suppose a lot depends on what is done with Jeff. This lineup (without adding some SERIOUS thunder in the middle), CANNOT and should not rely on the inconsistency of BOTH Jeff and KJ. Doom will lie ahead if they do.
Kotchman will be fine at !B. A) He’s a GG caliber defender (very important to me as a fan), B) He’s extremely affordable for a few years, and C) I think he finally got comfortable, and I expect a 20 HR - 80-100 RBI season out of him. Add that to the defense he brings and the dude will be a nice cog in the lineup.
The bench should be strengthened a bit. Norton is a fine option on the bench (left-handed), but should NOT be counted on as a replacement for Kotchman if injury occurs. Another body that can play 1B everyday in a pinch should be a must.
I think between Gotay (is he even locked into a Braves uniform next year?) and Prado (if he’s not playing 2B everyday in the event of a KJ trade), will provide a decent option or two for when Chipper misses a few games (scheduled or due to injury).
Will it be enough to keep up with the Phils and Mets (BOTH of them are more than likely gonna be players in the CC sweepstakes - among others), who are both ALREADY better suited for success than the Braves are.
Add to that, I suspect that Washington is gonna make some financial pushes for some better weapons as well.
While this division will be up for grabs again, Wren has a LOT of work to do, to assure that the Braves are in that mix in 2009.
THAT being said, there is no need for Wren to sell the farm to make a push in 2009, with all the highly touted prospects on the way.
I’d simply settle for him being a mid-tier “player” in the trade and free agent market to BETTER the team for next year (and if all goes well with returning injured players and the newly acquired players - we MIGHT make a strong push), thus making the team easier on the eyes to watch next year, while keeping his eye on 2010, when guys like Heyward might be on the big club.
The ONLY reason for him to spend all of the surplus of cash, and trade some highly touted prospects would be out of respect for Chipper and possibly Smoltz coming back, as to give them one last shot at getting it done.
But as much as us fans (and the Braves management) owe Chipper and Smoltz to put a winner on the field, they need to think longer than 2009 when assembling the next 25 man roster.
Of course, that all changes if Liberty Media opens up the checkbook (beyond the money coming of the books after today), and instructs Wren to GO FOR IT. But I suspect that that will not happen.
Again, DOB, thanks for you hard work. I look forward to discussing (and arguing) with all of you over the next 4 or 5 months what our chances are next year, based on moves that have been made, or ones that we feel SHOULD be made.
Besides. My Chiefs one a game today, so the NFL season isn’t completely dead and worthless just yet. LOL! Man I hate the Broncos. Which made yesterday feel very nice.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this
Mitchie-san: Good to hear. You’re on Oahu, I take it? You probably don’t get much time off, not enough to get over to Kauai or Maui? Those are the two I’ve spent time on, a week in each on different trips out there. I want to go back and rent a Harley next time, ride up the Hana Highway. Was with my ex before and that wasn’t going to happen. We drove it instead. Next time, two wheels.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this
N8, you’re welcome. And thanks for all the input.
Coach: I like that list of top-5 switch-hitters. Hard to argue. I’ll second it.
OK, gotta get up in, oh, 2-1/2 hours. Ouch. Gotta return rental car and catch a 5:40 a.m. flight (Central Time) to Atlanta, arrive at 9 a.m. and drive straight from airport to clubhouse to catch a few players packing up their stuff and headed out (though many of them already did that stuff and just left for their homes from here in Houston instead of returning to Atlanta, since so many live in central or western parts of the U.S. or South America).
Good night, and good luck. (Me, I’ll need it, as my lingering sickness will surely cause more fun pressurized/clogged ears on the flight).
Later
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this
For the fantasy leaguer’s blogging tonight, Magglio Ordonez is under contract though 2011 with the Detroit Tigers. He’s batting .317 with over 100 RBI, you guys can put him on your fantasy league team but forget the idea of him playing anywhere else except in Detroit, he is staying with the Tigers.
As far as Oliver Perez, NO THANK YOU! Control and command of the strike zone is always an issue with this guy. We are talking about a real Jekyll & Hyde on the mound.
By nolie
September 29, 2008 4:35 AM | Link to this
Other players of note are Lance Berkman, Bernie Williams, Tim Raines, Roberto Alomar, Willie Wilson, Ted Simmons, Reggie Smith and George Davis.cOACH
Don’t forget Chili Davis with 800 extra base hits including 350 homers .274/.360/.451. Pretty darn good SWer too.
By LivininAL
September 29, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
DOB -Thanks for all the blog work this year, appreciated very much!
By ncscoots
September 29, 2008 6:38 AM | Link to this
Already opening the door on the hot stove, I see. But for those putting knocks on certain potential Braves’ players (too old, too injury prone, too much contract, etc.), remember that ALL of these potential players are going to have warts of SOME kind. Nature of the beast. Braves will have to be agile in their risk assessment, but practically any acquisition made this offseason will bring a hue and cry from some quarters.
I actually hate to see Ordonez’s name flashed here so much, since we’re almost always wrong about the moves the Braves eventually make, LOL. Let’s hope the off-the-radar moves that the Braves will almost surely make, both surprise and excite us.
By RMR
September 29, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this
P-Town Brave
The reason Prado may not and/or was not selected is because they want to have a real bench for ‘09. The idea of a bench that consists of Norton, Diaz, Infante, Prado, the 4th OF and the backup catcher is a really great bench. There is a lot of versatility there. They can all play multiple positions. That is the silver lining of this year. I also think Campillo is better served in the bullpen. His numbers indicated that. He was impressive in his 1st year as a starter and I will take nothing away from him. I would feel safer having him in the pen versus Boyer(who I thought would do well- dang was I wrong about that), Bennett, Tavarez and Acosta. You can bring Smoltz back, as a reliever, along with Moylan and Soriano. Sign Ohman back - Must!!
By Anders
September 29, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this
Brian
Anders- Are you still here? Damn, what does it take to get rid of you, anyway?
If the last two Met’s Septembers haven’t done it I guess most on here have to figure I’m here to stay. Hope you don’t mind?
By Anders
September 29, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
Doc Holiday
Who do the Mets hate more? The Braves? the Phillies…………..or the Fish?
The Yankees, and there isn’t a close second. You really have to live here to understand it.
If I had to pick between the teams above it’d be the Phillies, mainly because they’re from Philadelphia. That’s a bad town for out of towners in all sports. I’ve even had run in with Philadelphians at the pee wee level. They’re an angry and nasty lot on the whole. Don’t know why - seems to be part of their sports culture.
Can’t hate the Marlins for the last two years. They just came out and played hard. I’m cool with that. The Braves were the Mets arch enemies in the late 90’s and early 2000’s but that’s kind of faded at least here in NY. Hopefully it’ll be back soon.
BTW- If the Twins get in I can see them knocking off the Rays in the first round. All they need is one game in Tampa. No way Tampa wins a game at the Dome.
By Yehuda Hamer
September 29, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
It’s always about the pitching and not the b***!
By Thrillhouse44
September 29, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
The Yankees, and there isn’t a close second. Anders
Do you ever frequent Yanks blogs, Anders? Just curious.
Where can I see a picture of McCann’s new cut?
By retiredscout
September 29, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Congratulations, “hoss” on backing in to the batting title…those 8 games you played in Sept. must have been a real inspiration to your teammates. Did anyone else notice how Chipper’s “tweaks” increased drastically once he had enough at-bats to qualify for the title? Did you also notice that in spite of only hitting .239, Francouer had alsmost as many RBI as the “batting champ”?
As long as Jones remains a “team leader” for the Braves, expect more of the same mediocrity you have seen out of the Braves the last two years.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Sure Anders, how could I forget the yankees…..everybody hates them. Even their moms.
By McFann O zz
September 29, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Doc H.—
Hey, haven’t from ya in a while. How’d you like somebody’s September, eh? Or did it “just not matter”?
Anyway, Beltran said the Mets were the “team to beat”, and he was right! They got beat. But I for one ain’t gonna gloat. A 90-loss season doesn’t merit much in the way of “bragging rights”.
Thrillhouse44 Where can I see a picture of McCann’s new cut?
I guess if you’re lucky……nowhere.
By McFann O zz
September 29, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
retiredscout Did you also notice that in spite of only hitting .239, Francouer had alsmost as many RBI as the “batting champ”?
Oh brother, man! Try something new. The team leader for RBI had 87, so it’s not like anybody was knocking in a ton of guys.
Besides, Chipper bats higher in the order, and didn’t play as much as Francoeur. Francoeur had 492 men on base in front him, Chipper had 353. Francoeur should’ve had more RBI than Chipper.
By McFann O zz
September 29, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
BTW—I meant “haven’t heard from [Doc H.] in a while.
Forgot the word “heard”.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Coach, the only reason people bring up Magglio is beause the Tigers have stated that they’re going to cut payroll by about 30MM or so, which makes Magglio an obvious trade candidate. They’re probably not going to be able to unload Nate Robertson or Dontrelle Wills w/o eating some cash. Since we appear to be flushed with cash, this makes us an obvious fit for Maggs. Obviously, if they didn’t need to cut payroll, then they probably wouldn’t even think about getting rid of Magglio. They still might decide to keep him, but it looks like (based on what they’ve said) that they might have to get rid of him.
Scoots, good post at 6:38.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
hi McFann
I was just waiting for season to end. I just clicked on reset last night hoping for a miserable 2008 to wash away. To tell you the truth I dont expect much from us in 2009 either. Way to many holes to fill, sure we have money to spend but some other teams do as well.
Every OF position is a question mark, 1B is not enough, 2B is just average, SS needs to mature a lot. Chipper wont be any younger. Mc Cann might be our only true warrior right now, I could also mention Prado and Infante but we all know bobby wont let them play everyday. I would fill 2B and LF with them and trade KJ, but thats just me. JF will be given another chance and we all know how that will end up.
Huddy out, Smoltz and Glavine are way to old to consider them. Hampton might get hurt serving the turkey in november. JoJo and Morton are no ready. James zux.
Bullpen is also a concern since Moylan and Soriano are ???
Lots of work to do, not imposible, but some magic and miracles are a MUST. Not to win, but to look as force and not like some AAA team.
Im now ready to rock McFann, let the preparation for 2009 begin.
By Bruce's Pearl
September 29, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
HOUSTON — It’s been nine years since Mike Hampton last threw a pitch for the Astros, but his ties to select players in the organization have remained strong over the years. Hampton, who started for the Braves on Sunday afternoon and gave up a two-run homer to his good friend Brad Ausmus in the third inning, will be a free agent in a few weeks, and he confirmed after the game that he would be interested in signing with the Astros.
“I’ve always loved this place,” Hampton said after the Astros beat the Braves, 3-1. “Definitely. I’m sure there will be interest on both sides. We’ll see if we can work something out. I’ve always loved it here.” So much for loyalty,huh?
By gayle
September 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Another season thankfully over.
Now that it’s past, I’d love to see some REAL stories about the Braves organization besides superficial things that we have read all year.
DOB, if you want to know what I’m talking about, look at this 5-part series on the Mariners done in the Seattle Times by Geoff Baker.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2008199006_maribuild240.html
Why can’t we get this kind of insight into what’s really going on here instead of BC’s and FW’s talking points?
It might help some of the fans appreciate, or perhaps criticize, what has happened here over the last 7 years.
I write this without the benefit of knowing what limitations in recources and time the AJC may impose on you. I know that all media has simply been hammered financially these days. But if you have nearly 2.5 million people attending Braves’ games this year, it might warrant the time and effort of a real in-depth look like Baker did in Seattle.
Have a nice winter everybody. Perhaps things will change here next year - or maybe they won’t………….
By chuck-the-barber
September 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Jeff Bennett need to retire his shears! We talk more baseball in my barber shop than in the Braves locker room. Shoulda waited til after the trip and come to me for that cut, Mac.
By chuck-the-barber
September 29, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Jeff Bennett needs to retire his shears! We talk more baseball in my barber shop than in the Braves locker room. Shoulda waited til after the trip and come to me for that cut, Mac.
By chuck-the-barber
September 29, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Retire those shears, Jeff Bennett!!
By Lew
September 29, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Gayle-If you want Five Part expose stories about the inner workings of the Braves, go talk to Jeff Schultz and Mark Bradley (or at your own peril-Terence Moore)-it ain’t DOB’s and Carroll’s job to write such a series. Have you not paid attention to the difference between columnists and Beat Writers? Lord knows we’ve covered the topic numerous times this season.
Not so sure what, exactly, you’re looking for though. Is there perhaps some dirt you’re looking for that you’re not likely to find if you haven’t already? Is there perhaps some tidbit of negativity that one of the Denizens like N8 (Hey Dude, glad you’re back-hope things have calmed down for you and your family) or Jeff321 hasn’t b!tched about at one time or another (if not constantly, like the Rise and Fall of the Francoeurian Empire, or Kelly Johnson’s missed pop up)?
Is there an inadequacy that perhaps has not been held up to the light of day and incessant complaining here on the blog? Is there maybe a bleeding sore that hasn’t been picked to the point of festering and eventual amputation? Personally, I don’t think so, but then again, I could be wrong. The need for people to look for dirt, strife and controversy constantly amazes me. Not too sure why I should be surprised.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Doc H.—
You’re correct, there’s lots of holes. I think it’s mostly starting pitching that we need…like, maybe some guys that are under 35?
Mac is our worrier for sure—really stinks that he popped out to end the season with RISP yesterday…still tryin’ to get over that myself.
I don’t think they’ll look as much like a AAA team next year…but a fat lotta good my predictions did us for ‘08, huh?
Gotta go babysit the Gerbils while my brother cleans their home. Be back in, oh…half an hour or so. Could be longer, but anyway…
Later!
By DAP
September 29, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
does anybody here think xavier nady might be on the block? id imagine that the yanks would have no reason not to want him back….especially with abreu going into free agency. but then again, if abreu accepts arbitration, they might have to many outfielders.
By MDBraveFan
September 29, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
DOB - Thanks for the informative and entertaining blogs this season. I am quite happy about the Muts Implosion Part II. Won a bet as a result! Look forward to your insights this winter - I certainly hope the Braves do something worth reporting about. Not being competitive stinks. Enjoy the winter everyone - on to the year-end tennis tourneys and college hoops for me.
By Not a Cox Fan
September 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Chipper says that he wants to retire a Brave. That shouldn’t be a problem since no other team but the Braves is willing to pay that much money for ” part time ” players ( Chipper, Hamptom, etc. )
By DAP
September 29, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
i disagree that there are many holes on this braves team. i just think there are a few big ones.
a couple of starters, 1 maybe two outfielders, and were done. obviously, its easier said than done, but i think that where we are at.
i think the infield is set, infante and prado are great bench players, and frenchy will get another year in right to prove himself.
the bullpen has a few guys returning from injury, but i believe it will be solid. i would be so happy to get mike cameron to play center field, along with abreu or blake or ordonez for left. then if you can get lowe or maybe burnett, and resign hampton, and maybe glavine if hes healthy, to be our jamie moyer…if not we have youngun’s who can be #5, and the roatation is not spectacular, but ok.
there are just so many ways we could go. i really think one of the best things for this team, though, would be signing mike cameron for center field. i wish we had done it last season.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Steve in Ohio, The Tigers will cut payroll, but not for the reasons you think.
Todd Jones has retired. He was paid 7 million in 2008.
Edgar Renteria is gone. That’s another 9 million.
Gary Sheffield made 14 million and has the same contract for 2009. He hit .227 with 19 HR’s and 57 RBI. Detroit will try to move him but probably won’t find any takers.
Kenny Rogers was paid 8 million to go 9-13 with an ERA of 5.70, HE IS GONE.
Kyle Farnsworth and his 5.5 million, GONE BYE BYE TOO.
So , now that I painted an accurate and factual picture for you. I’ll say it AGAIN. MAGGLIO ORDONEZ is going NOWHERE. Got it, Steve?????
By Lew
September 29, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Not a Fan-Yeah Dude, it sure sucks having part time players who are locks as HOF inductees, working for way below what they are really worth and then turning around and winning a Batting Championship the year after they came in second by mere percentage points-such a total waste and mismanagement of funds and personnel.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
i think chipper staying a brave will depend on how much money he wants. unless he wants a raise, i think he will stay. at this point, i dont see the braves increasing his $15mil salary at this point. technically he is only making $11mil this season, but with a signing bonus, it makes it a very repectable $15mil for chipper. i could see them trying to extend jones for two more years at $11mil per. maybe with a vesting option for a third year. i think the braves would be willing to do that, and i think chipper would accept if he is serious about staying. i dont think other teams would give him way more than that, anyways.
By Shamus Thacker
September 29, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Had to come back one last time to congratulate all Muts fans on another wonderful, rousing, finish. What a courageous show of determination these Muts displayed, you should all be very proud!
The inspirational grit and never-say-die attitude of your Muts has made swallowing our own season just a bit more palatable.
WTG Muts! And just think, next year will bring the opportunity for a THREEPEAT!! I’m absolutely certain you can pull it off!!!
Again Muts fans, congratulations on a choke well done!
By Lew
September 29, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Much as I hate to admit it, I can’t find fault with Coach’s evaluation of the Tigers and their payroll losses. Mags won’t be in Atlanta next year for a couple of reasons-the Tigers will want to keep him and the Braves aren’t paying an outfielder $17 million when they really need to spend the $$$$ for pitching (not to mention blocking players such as we have in the minors). I’d love to see the Man roaming around the Turner Field outfield confines and basepaths, but realistically it ain’t happening.
By Johnson
September 29, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Anders (or any New yorkers out there), Is is possible that the Islanders will end up playing at the Nets new arena in Brooklyn? Is that project definitely going to happen? If I’m not mistaken, the Dodgers wanted to build a stadium there in the 1950’s before heading to LA.
By Shamus Thacker
September 29, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Just one more thing and I’ll go.
I’d like to say hello to DOB and Carroll. Not a more professional duo in the history of sports reporting, not a nicer or more knowledgeable tandem anywhere. Those of you still welcome by fellow bloggers are very lucky to have them. I say this in all sincerity.
Take care y’all… Bye
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Coach, see this regarding the Tigers’ payroll situation. It’s not 100% accurate, but it’s pretty close.
Rodgers, Farnsworth, Jones and Renteria aren’t included in these figures (though E-Rent’s buyout is). With Sheffield, the figure looks to be around 120MM, which is more than the “40MM reduction from 137.5MM” that has been reported here.
No one is saying Mags is a sure thing to go. He’s just a prime candidate, and if they trade him to slash payroll, we’re an obvious fit. Can you agree with that part, at least? He’s the easiest way to fix the payroll crunch. Who knows, though. Illitch might decide to keep payroll a bit higher after all.
Thoughs, rebuttal on those facts?
By DAP
September 29, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
coach several rumor sites have mentioned that ordonez might be on the block in order to slash payroll. thats not something people on this blog have just made up. so, dont think its possible that mags might get traded?
by the way, dont you think suggesting the tiggers might trade sheffield is much more idiotic than suggesting they might trade mags? i mean, teams will actually WANT mags. youve got to lighten up, man, and quit being such a punk.
By Lee in S GA
September 29, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
DOB - my thanks to you on an informative year also.
Lew - hope you make it to spring training to provide additional insight like last season also.
As a baseball fan still looking forward to the playoffs.
GO RAYS and BREWERS.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
DAP i disagree that there are many holes on this braves team. i just think there are a few big ones.
Good point. I agree.
By Hoosier Aaron
September 29, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
I think this offseason will be the “moment-of-truth” for the future of the Braves - so to speak.
As Braves fans - we should know at the start of Spring Training the (long-term) DIRECTION of our beloved Bravos.
In the past few years - we had budget issues that did not allow us to make moves that might of made sense.
This year - we should have money and we have players with trade-value.
We do not have many holes but the holes we do have are huge holes.
For me - I am very curious to see if we will fill the like we’ve done in the past with players such as Raul Mondesi-type players…I might throw a Juan Rivera into that category.
Will we pursue Ichiro? He would certainly have a high-price tag but I think the M’s will listen to offers.
Highly unlikely we’ll be in the CC sweepstakes. So - do we pay ACE-type money for the “next-best-thing” or do we pursue an ACE (pick your ace) through a trade.
Wren did say once that “free-agency signings are the most inefficient method of acquiring players”. John Schuerholz also said “We develop talent for two reasons - to play for us or to trade for players who fill our needs”.
I don’t know the answers - but I think we’ll know the long-term DIRECTION of the Braves by simply watching this offseson.
My opinion however is this -
Either jump in big or simply let the kids have Turner Field. I mean either - make the trades, sign the players or simply point to Heyward, Freeman, Hernandez and the gang and say, “Let’s see what you got”.
I’ll be disappointed about our future if we decide to just place a few bandaids here and there.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Lee in S GA rays and brewers are my WS hopefulls as well. id love to see the small market teams stick it to ‘em.
although, if the brewers make it, i think you might start seeing a new trend with some smaller teams, trying to replicate what the brewers did. could be good, or not.
i do think the rays will make it to the WS, but i think it will be the cubs that will meet them there. we will see, though.
i just realized that we just might have both chi-town teams in the playoffs. we already have both LA teams. thats kinda cool. even better both NY teams are sitting at home!
By flange1
September 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Morning all,
Want to echo the sentiment to DOB and Carroll R for their fine work with the AJC Beat Blog. I have enjoyed it again this year.
Wish the season had ended on a better note, but it is done and time for some playoff baseball and time for the old Hot Stove to begin to crank up.
It will be interesting to see how FW handles this off season. It will be critical for him to make some changes to get this team in the playoffs in 2009.
With teams going on record (Padres and Tigers so far) that they are cutting payroll could lead to some interesting options for the Braves.
I, too, would like to see D Lowe in a Braves uni.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Brad Penny and Mike Hampton signed as well.
We will see.
Congratulations Braveheart on Saturday night! Your guys kicked the cr$p out of our Dawgs.
I respect the talking smack before the game but not after. I really want to talk some smack to Mets fans, but I will leave it at this:
I hope you Mets fans understand that YOU GUYS (the fans) are the real reason that I hate the Mets. If you didn’t run on at the mouth so much about how great everything in NY is, I would not be so happy that the Mets gagged again.
Let the playoffs begin!!!!
By DAP
September 29, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
hoosier aaron ichiro on the block? has this been whispered? id be surprised if seatlle parted with thier cash cow, but if they would…wow. id love to see him patrolling center at turner field.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
I see the stove is hot already.
ROTATION:
At least one FA starter for the #1 slot in the rotation - whomever, SABATHIA, LOWE, GARLAND whomever scouting thinks will get the job done. JJ at #2, HAMPTON at #3, and scramble after that. Consider MADDUX if not committed next year in L.A. and he’s interested in working with BC for one more year. MORTON if recovered from his shoulder woes. CARLYLE - maybe. REYES - NO. Retire GLAVINE’s number and say thanks for the memories and good-bye.
BULLPEN:
OHMAN a must in the BP. Sign GONZALEZ also. SORIANO, MOYLAN, BENNETT in. TAVARES in ST for a look see. Add NUNEZ if he becomes consistantly GOOD in ST. SMOLTZ if he makes it back. BOYER - NO.
Move ESCOBAR to 2b and lead-off. Sign RENTERIA for SS and second in the order if he’s outta’ the TIGERS organization and available. CHIP at 3B and 3. McCANN at C and #4. RENT the biggest FA CF bat available in #5 for ‘09, JOHNSON in LF and #6, KOTCHMAN at 1B and #7, FRANCOUER in RF and #8.
BENCH:
NORTON, INFANTE, PRADO, DIAZ on the bubble with ANDERSON, ?? back-up catcher -MILLER’s done. SAMMONS - no. HOUSTON might trade SALTY back, LilBRIDGE - no. GOTAY - no.
DRAFT:
Arms, arms, arms. If #7 doesn’t net a good arm, then best position player at C, or OF. Sandwich round - more of the same.
Since we’re hot stovin’ already, wow, what fun.! LIBERTY’s play money and the professionals decisions all laid out for the BRAVES. Take some time off guys, we denizens will take care of the off-season for you with DOB and CARROLL to monitor it all.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
No , No and No. That’s my answer concerning Magglio Ordonez. He is critical to the success of the Tigers offense. The man has hit in the three or four hole all season. The man is gonna be making 18 million next season and he is worth every penny.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Concerning the Detroit Tigers and Magglio Ordonez.
Miguel Cabrera 127 RBI
Magglio Ordonez 103 RBI
Nobody else on the entire roster has more than 66 RBI. The only way Maggs gets traded is if Dave Dombrowski parks a truck load of dynamite under the team and pushed the plunger. And that ain’t gonna happen.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
coach No , No and No. That’s my answer concerning Magglio Ordonez.
ok, but nobody asked you.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Here’s a song I composed about the 2008 Atlanta Braves season:
Remake of Blinded By The Light by Manfred Man’s Earth Band:
Blinded by the light,
They’re sunk, they give up,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,
They’re sunk, they give up,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,
They’re sunk, they give up
another runner in the night
It’s Wren’s dummer bummer,
The Braves entered the summer
with a senior pitching staff
With no thump they get bumped as they struggle to pump
some life into their bats
Smoltz had surg’ry on his shoulder, He and Tom are older,
They both would have to go down
With this very unpleasin’ season proceedin’,
The Atlanta Braves crashed to the ground
The Atlanta Braves crashed to the ground
‘Cause they were…
Blinded by the light, etc X 3
In Double-A Mississip’ the manager Phillip
said, “Jeff you got what it takes”
Told him “I’ll turn you once more into something strong,”
He came back and still didn’t rake
Flyin’ Hawaiian crashed his helmet into Brian
That would keep Mac out for a week
And little Trimmy-Timmy saw his chances dimmy-slimmy
when Doc Andrews gave his arm a peak
Doc Andrews gave his arm a peak
And they were…
Blinded by the light,
They’re sunk, they give up
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light
They got down People said, “They got tired,
They just can’t make it through the night.”
“They just can’t make it through the night.”
You can’t tell the players not to look into the eye’s of the sun
It’s too bad, that’s where the ball is
With leads blown by their own they had shown they didn’t own
The Phillies in the East
So dethrone the Victor’o, hit him in his funny bone
That’s where he’ll expect it least
And the one-run are no fun they lost way too many,
Especially on the road
And the fresh arms don’t harm but they need someone with more charm
To help carry the load
The Atlanta Braves crashed to the ground
‘Cause they were…
Blinded by the light X 9 + The Verses
By Hoosier Aaron
September 29, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
I haven’t read anything about Ichiro that others haven’t seen.
The M’s are a trainwreck and Ichiro’s teammates want to “knock him out”. Something’s gotta give in that mess.
Ichiro and Bedard would both look great sporting tomahawks - if you ask me.
By Chop Chop
September 29, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Hats off to DOB and Carroll for another job well done in 2008.
I’ve been in blog detox for a while. This season was over in mid-May (that’s how it felt to me, anyway), so my interest in blogging during the extended death throes of this edition of the Braves waned a little more than it waxed. Even so, I read the blog every day and posted when the spirits, er, spirit moved me.
I’ll get back on the horse in the offseason and do battle over who the Braves should, and shouldn’t, bring back/acquire for 2009. I have a very hard time doing all of that during the season. I’d rather micromanage when it feels like it might actually matter.
Anyway, I want to give a shoutout to Mike Hampton. Here’s a song off Metallica’s Death Magnetic that seems appropriate for the way in which he dealt with seasons of injuries and setbacks:
Broken, Beat & Scarred
Die hard.
By James
September 29, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
What do you think of this lineup for next year: 2B: Orlando Hudson SS: Yunel Escobar 3B: Chipper Jones LF: Bobby Abreu (or maybe another trade for Magglio Ordonez) C: Brian McCann 1B: Casey Kotchman RF: Jeff Francouer CF: Josh Anderson
Starting Rotation: 1. Matt Cain 2. Jon Garland 3. Jair Jurrgiens 4. Mike Hampton 5. Jorge Campillo
Relievers: CP: Mike Gonzalez SU: John Smoltz SU: Peter Moylan RP: Will Ohman RP: Jeff Bennett RP: Blaine Boyer RP: JoJo Reyes
Bench: C Paul Lo Duca IF Martin Prado OF Gregor Blanco IF/OF Greg Norton
We could add Hudson($10m/yr), Garland($10m/yr), Abreu ($10m/yr), and Lo Duca ($1-2m/yr) for probably around $32 million and that would leave at least $8 million to resign Will Ohman. We could use a combination of Lillibridge, Johnson, Brandon Jones, and maybe a pitcher like Morton to obtain Cain from San Francisco, a team looking for young stars in the making. Or use them to make a 3-way trade to get Cain or maybe a Zach Grienke from KC. Also, we have to remember at some point toward the end of the season we will hopefully be in the race and adding Tim Hudson to the rotation. Abreu would just be a stop gap until Heyward is ready to come up and I believe that Anderson is a good ball player that could be around for a while or at least until Jordan Schafer is able to replace him.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Dude…That was a long one. Sorry about that.
By nolie
September 29, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Did either you(Moby) or RichBrave see the hour Redford did with Newman on the “Iconoclasts” series on The Sundance Channel just a couple of years ago?MIBravesFan
Like I said earlier to Rich, I had not heard that Redford had a problem with Newman. I did see most of that Iconoclasts session with both of them and they seemed to get along (of course they are both great actors). It seems like if there ever were hard feelings that they got over them.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
As I have mentioned a few times on the blog, our biggetst offensive issue is getting some pop in the lineup. Everyone seems to be in agreement. Part of that issue, that few others seem to be willing to address, is that our best two players miss 15-20% or more of our games. McCann with his rest, and Chipper with his recent history of nagging injuries. If we add one big thumper, it will help, but we cannot live with hitters like Sammmons/Miller once a week, and subs for Chipper with no power (Infante and Prado).
Gotta get someone who is flexible, who can play corner infield and outfield spots. We need a Braves version of Mark DeRosa. Names: Aubrey Huff, Ty Wiggington, Casey Blake, Mark Teahan, etc. Am I the only one who sees this deficiency?
Another point, Norton, while being a great pinch hitter this year, has NO glove to speak of. Can’t be counted on to fill a backup role. With only 13 positional players, back out your starters and a backup catcher, that leaves a total of 4 guys to be your pinch hitters and utility infielder/outfielders. Infante is one, and Blanco/Anderson maybe the other (if Schafer plays CF).
I see Matt Diaz and Greg Norton being so similar, not sure we can keep them both. Diaz has minimal trade value, as does Norton. I think one of them makes the team, and the other gets released.
Pitching thoughts later…..
Mags would look good in an Atlanta uni, but the Tigers would be fools to trade him.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
DAP
You dont think the Braves have lots of holes? Then this is a very competitive league man……..I dont really understand how can you say there are not a lot of holes.
Just picture this……….name which braves player would make the starting lineup in most of the playoff teams.
The answer would be almost none.
Chipper is a nobrainer.
McCann
What after that?
none of our OF. Yunel? maybe with the dodgers. Talking NL only here.
KJ? nope.
Our 1B, youll have to admit, is not a clutch guy nor a guy I would like as my 1B.
Look at other teams……….Delgado just exploded.
Howard…………
Fielde………….
Lee………….
Do you think our 1B is near that league? He is soooooooo far away from them. Thats is one of the reason we are not able to compete.
Look at out BP……….what do we have after gonzo?
Soriano? please.
Moylan……..only god knows.
After that…………disaster.
Who are we starting next year after JJ and Campillo (who finally showed he is human after all, maybe he is even better next year……….better, that is a possibility)- Hampton is like having pedro, glavine, smoltz or el duque……….you never know and it could go against you, so SP is as weak as it can be.
So what do we have?
Nothing.
Chipper will play 120 at the most next year.
I like Blanco but he is still very young and its not easy to keep up his good OBP.
This team will not turn it around until some guys hit the road. Ill add to that list:
JF
KJ
Kotchman
Unfortunately 2 of those 3 guys had the most amount of ABs for the Braves this year……….that explains some of our poor results.
This team was not able to get an average back up for brian………thats just unbelieable.
Great teams with playoff hopes need to have an ace……..our ace for next year as we speak is JJ……….he is darn good, but he is just a boy, not a big time veteran. Cubs have Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, etc…………….Muts have Santana, Brewers have Sheets and CC, LA have Lowe and Penny……………we? we have a rookie and a guy that might be getting hurt as we speak……….And I defend Hampton Im one of the guys that stood for him all year, believed in him, but im also realistic.
Look around, Braves talent and heart has deflated.
2009……….cox for another year………that aint a positive in my point of view.
if you have a team with no good veteran, solid OF. No solid 1B. Injury prone 3B. Injury prone SS. Average 2B at best and no back up catcher. Only 1 maybe 2 solid SP for 2009 and 1 only has 1 year under his belt and the other has just pitched in like 8 games all year.
Your bullpen is suspicious all the way around but your closer…………..
Do you think thats not a lot of holes?
Id say……….WOW
By DAP
September 29, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
james if all that could it happen it would be quite an offseason for wren. i think the hardest thing to do in your plan is to get cain from the giants, and then 2nd hardest will be getting abreu for only $10mil. i think both guys will cost a bit more, but if wren could pull all that off, id be happy.
(ps, id probably give prado the everyday job brfore signing hudson. while he is a good veteran, i dont think hes THAT much better than prado)
By Lew
September 29, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
James-Wonderful, except we don’t need a second baseman-especially at $10 mil when Kelly Johnson should continue to cost less than a mil. We aren’t going to pay Abreu what he will command on the open market- IF the Yankees don’t keep him. It’s doubtful Garland will be the pitcher they seek in Free Agency and the package you mention would be laughed at in any attempt to trade for Cain or Grienke.
Hey Dude, other than that, I’d love to have those guys on our team, but the chances of it happening are unrealistic at best.
Lee in S Ga-Glad you enjoyed the reports from Spring Training, but I won’t be headed south this February. It’s getting too close to retirement age and with the debacle that has been made of the economic system, I need to bank the bucks for safety’s sake. It is an expensive trip even though I own a home in Orlando. Maybe in 2010.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Sorry DAP, I forgot to mention……….Glavine is also a must go and Smoltz should be nothing but a setup man. Maybe a closer and Gonzo the setup man.
By Lew
September 29, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Doc-Dude, I agree with you up to a point. I would also look to the bullpen. However…..
What you neglect to take into consideration is that the Mets lose many players this winter. So do the Phillies. So do the Brewers and the Dodgers. The Padres will almost certainly make many changes and I would bet the DBacks do as well. Almost all the pitchers you mentioned-Sheets (I bet he ends up with TJ surgery), CC, Lowe, Penny and I believe Lilly are all Free Agents and may likely (especially in the cases of Sheets and Sabbathia) end up elsewhere. Keep in mind also, that the Yankees, The Mets, and several other teams besides the Braves will be looking for much new talent over the winter. It is highly likely that the NL will bear no resemblance to this years’ model in 09.
By Kentavo
September 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Renteria - would Bravos take him back? Where would he play? Sure would be nice to have his steady bat in the lineup. Not knocking the Renteria-JJJ trade, but the offesnsive deficiencies this year can certainly be tied to the fact that we lost consumate, professional hitter Edgar, replaced by inconsistencies (name your no. 2-hole hitter).
By J.D.
September 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
DOB and Carroll, thanks for a great 2008, your work is much appreciated
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Did you also notice that in spite of only hitting .239, Francouer had alsmost as many RBI as the “batting champ”?RetiredScout
still talking that crap about RBI when comparing the production of two players I see. I seriously doubt that you are a retired scout unless you were scouting T-ball teams. Get with the program dude, RBI are team stats and p1ss-poor for comparing individuals. Chipper success in clutch situations was so much better than Jeff’s that only a moron would compare the two.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
doc holiday Just picture this……….name which braves player would make the starting lineup in most of the playoff teams.
i think that question is impossible to answer. obviously, all the the playoff teams have thier roster spots filled. so, they dont need our guys. id say that our infield is about as good as the dodgers infield…(this is my attempt of answering your strange question) we have a better 2B and 3B than the brewers, ohillies have the best infield in the majors… and the cubs have a darn good one too, but i think escobar is better than theriot. as far as the outfield goes, you are right. we need help there (which is what i said) and the rotation needs help (which is also what i said)
so let me be unrealistic to illustrate my point, that we dont have ALOT of holes, we just have BIG ones. imagine that braves got peavy, sabathia, matt holliday, carlos beltran. if all the other peices stayed the same, dont you think they would be among the best teams?
thats 4 players. now, i know that is litterally an impossible senerio, but im just saying, we have good players in a lot of spots, but we have BIG weaknesses to shore up. they arent many, but they are big. you know what im saying?
i dont think there is anyway the braves become a great team next year, but i do think there are things that can be done to make this a much better team, and a winning team, with just a few breaks.
in fact, let me say this: if the braves can get mike cameron, casey blake, lowe/burnett, hampton, ohman, norton, i think they may be good enough the way they are to make a run in 2009. these are all free agents, by the way. 6 players, 2 of them in relativly small roles.
By StingerSplash
September 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Don’t get me started on how close the Pens were last year, with that puck almost on Hossa’s stick with nothing but net in front of him as the horn sounded. And then Red Wings have to go and scoop him up. So much for the salary cap. A full year of Sid, Geno and Hossa would have been awesome to see (I saw Lemieux play in person — a transcendent experience — and Jagr play in person, but never at the same time with the Pens).
And DOB, does your hint-hint mean you are compensated in some form for your 680 appearances? Guess it’s better than “Sports … OK, what was the final score … Score by quarters? … Leading scorers? … Records? … Ok, thanks, coach” phone calls throughout the winter.
By Frank
September 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Ya know, as much as I dispise the Muts…..I was actually pulling for them to win yesterday.
I dispise the Phils more but maybe like last year with the Muts getting beat on the last day of the season, and the Phils not just getting beat…they got SWEPT! SWEPT! After that…I thought..”There is a God”.
Can we say..”Postseason Disaster #2” for the Phils?
I’m hoping for either a Red Sox/Cubs WS or a White Sox/Cubs WS.
DOB, any chance of the Braves returning to TBS? Has there been any uproar there in Atlanta about them not on TBS anymore? I’m a Braves fan in Kansas. As bad as they played this season, I missed the hell out of them not being on TBS.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
No , No and No. That’s my answer concerning Magglio Ordonez. He is critical to the success of the Tigers offense. The man has hit in the three or four hole all season. The man is gonna be making 18 million next season and he is worth every penny. Coach
No, no and No like you don’t want Magglio on the Braves??? Please tell me that’s not what you meant.
If Magglio is seen as that important to the Tigers by their FO, then I agree that it would be silly for them to trade him. You’re blowing what I’ve been saying way out of proportion.
However, if what I linked above was accurate, which it seems to be (if not, then reasonably close) then the Tigers may be forced to move someone to cut payroll, and the easiest way for them to do this is to trade Maggs. He’s got the most trade value along with the biggest contract. I mean, you can’t possibly disagree with that, can you? It is plausible to say that they could move other pieces to cut payroll, but it would take either moving Robertson, Sheffield or Willis (can’t see anyone taking on those contracts, can you?) or trading away most of their other mid-level salary obligations like Marcus Thames and Placido Polanco and Jeremy Bonderman, but that would leave them with quite a few holes to fill, IMO, with probably a lesser return on prospects. Keep in mind that they need a SS and bullpen help. If they trade Mags, they’ve got adequate fill-ins for the outfield within the organization. They don’t necessarily have that in pitching or middle infielders (which is why they need a SS).
I mean, if you’ve got another way around this I (and I’m sure Dave Dombrowski) would sure love to hear it. But if you don’t, please spare us the very obvious “but Magglio is way too important to move” blathering. We all know this. This is very obvious because Magglio is very good at hitting baseballs, which is why I (and others) would like to see him on our team. Unfortunately, economics is one of the driving forces for baseball teams, and it looks like (with a little good fortune) we might actually be on the good end of it this time.
You did say you were a Braves’ fan, right?
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Move ESCOBAR to 2b and lead-off. Sign RENTERIA for SS and second in the order if he’s outta’ the TIGERS organization and available. CHIP at 3B and 3. McCANN at C and #4. RENT the biggest FA CF bat available in #5 for ‘09, JOHNSON in LF and #6, KOTCHMAN at 1B and #7, FRANCOUER in RF and #8.Rich
Rents is toast as an everyday player IMO. Maybe as a back up, but no way should they waste Yunel’s defensive skills at second base.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, if you want to know what I’m talking about,Gayle
I don’t.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
OK, just got back from the day-after session at Turner Field, which actually turned into just a good interview with Wren, who was pretty forthcoming about needs and how they plan to fill them (free agency, trades, etc), at least in general terms. Gimme a minute and I’ll give you the basic points we got….
Stinger, not a hint-hint about that at all. Hint was to get them to have me do some Braves segments during the offseason.
No hinting about compensation — absolutely compensated for three-times-a-week regularly scheduled 15-minute segments I do with them, just as anyone else you hear doing similar segments about other sports, if they are regularly scheduled segments, is paid for the work.
What, you think I just donate 45 minutes a week to the station for craps and giggles, when it pulls me away from interviews in clubhouse or dugout sometimes at that hour, or from doing anything else at that particular time if I happen to be off that day. Not to mention waking up at 6:10 or 7:10 a.m. on the West Coast or Mountain Time Zones to do the segment after a late night game.
Yes, they pay. They compensate fairly.
By flange1
September 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Steve from Ohio,
I think that you have made a clear and valid argument as to why the Tigers might move Ordonez, better in fact that what I have read in the media!
I know other teams are looking at Ordonez too, but having him for 2 years with Heyward reaching the majors at the same time just makes him look even more attractive.
Maybe we need to bite the bullet and overpay to get who we want that fits into the Braves needs.
After watching CC pitch in the last few weeks, I wonder if we should offer him $25 million a year for 4 years. He has been amazing.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Moby Grape Chipper success in clutch situations was so much better than Jeff’s that only a moron would compare the two.
Good one! Very true.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
DAP
Yankees have big holes in pitching………their position players are ok.
We have holes at:
RF
CF
LF
1B
Ill give 2B to you………..being soft with you.
Thats half a team. WEAK
SP:
No real proven Ace (JJ is just a rookie, not an ace to built around him as we speak)
No 4th nor 5th starters (not sure if hampton is coming back).
Suspicious bullpen…. Tell me which pitchers are reliable as we speak? Gonzo and Ohman. That is weak.
I cant picture the Braves filling so many holes in just one season.
Not even with the yankees kind of money.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren covered a lot of ground this morning regarding the moves the Braves will try to move.
Here’s the gist of it (can’t go into detail now because I’ve got to write it in a story for the paper and online).
Payroll is going up, though he wouldn’t say how much. He said it is going up, that they have the resources, both financial to pursue a free agent or two, and the depth of prospects to trade for a player. Said Braves have advantage over some clubs that don’t have both of those options, spending or trading to get talent.
(I’m guessing the payroll will be close to $100 mill, up from this year’s approx. $92 mill, which would give them about $45-48 mill to spend on addition salaries next year given what’s coming off the books.)
Braves plan to acquire two veteran starting pitchers, and that’s two from outside the organization. Two proven guys, either through trade and/or free agency. Much as the Braves have steered clear of free agency in the past, Frank said they have to put together the team and they have some money to spend, so if they need to sign a free agent they will.
This does NOT include Hampton, Smoltz, Glavine. Wren said they want to re-sign Hampton, told him so a couple weeks ago. They’ll try to get that done. If and when Smoltz and/or Glavine shows he can pitch, the Braves want them back. Frank said he doesn’t expect them to know until at least midway through the winter, perhaps not until just before spring.
The Braves will put together their rotation without counting on either Smoltz or Glavine. if one or both make it back, Frank said they could end up knocking a young guy from the back end of the rotation to Triple-A. So be it. No way to avoid that, because they’re not counting on those guys, but yet they want them back if they can pitch.
Same thing for Hudson, basically. They’re going to assume he’ll miss whole season, and if he gets back in August or Sept., it’s a welcome bonus.
Campillo could be used in either a starting or relief role, whatever they need.
They will assume that Hanson and other top young pitching prospects (ones not already in majors) will need more minor league time, not counting on one of them to win a spot in the spring.
After the two starting pitchers they plan to pursue (he didn’t name any names, by the way, or acknowledge any, but Derek Lowe is a good bet to be pursued, as might Burnett or Penny, among others) the next priority is a power-hitting outfielder. Frank believes adding one good bat will make a big difference, that they don’t have to add two (that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t listen, just not a need as they see it).
Essential to add one big bat, he said. Most likely will be a LF, but could be any OF. But he made it clear they are counting on and need Francoeur to bounce back and have a year like he’s had in past, not anything more than he’s capable, but a 20-homer, 80-100 RBI type year.
Blanco, Anderson and Schafer all will get consideration for the CF job, provided they’re back (Schafer will be back, won’t be traded, more on that in a moment). Others might compete for CF job, too, but those are the three he was asked about, and he said all could be in the running.
While the Braves are willing to trade from their minor league systen, particularly from their pitching depth, Wren was adament that they would NOT trade from what they see as their “next wave” of top young talent, the Heywards, Freeemans, Hansons, Schafers (I asked him those four names, specially, and he said all were in that group. Wouldn’t say which others would be).
Folks, I get a sense the Braves will be ready to trade the likes of Lillibridge, Redmond, perhaps B Jones (through Frank said they’re still high on him and that the sore shoulder he had last winter ball nagged him all year and robbed him of some power this year).
I asked if he feels like the infield is set, and he said yes, those four that are out there now are probably going to be the four next year. Kotchman and Chipper definitely will be, and he sounded very much like they’re not interested in trading Kelly after Kelly’s late season push that showed he might have turned the corner on his career and learned not to put so much pressure on himself. And not today, but recently I’ve been told they haven’t changed their feelings about Escobar at all, still believe he’s a potential future All-Star shortstop.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Moby Grape, so you want to replace Kelly’s bat with Renteria’s bat, at this stage of Renteria’ career? You’re just going to gamble that last year was a fluke for him? You see his stats last year? Compare them with Kelly’s.
You become a much lesser offensive team with that swap. Not going to happen.
By Braveheart
September 29, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Yankees have big holes in pitching………their position players are ok.
Not true. Catcher is injured and old, there is no first baseman, DH is leaving, second base had a horrible year, SS is getting old and is in decline, they have no centerfielder, abreu is leaving and can’t field, matsui is old, injured and can’t field or run. damon is not a centerfielder anymore and nady is just an average dude having a career year. Dude, they’ve got some serious issues in the Bronx.
By braves70
September 29, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Yankees covet Braves 1B Kotchman
From today’s NY Post by Kevin Kernan
The Other Great Fix will be at first base, where the Yankees have to get a functional first baseman in a trade, someone such as Atlanta’s Casey Kotchman.
“He’d be a perfect fit,” several Yankees said.
Sorry guys. You had your chance.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
doc holliday i think its clear that we disagree. i dont see 1B as a hole, or even RF. i think jeff is gonna rebound after a nice september. we need a LF, CF, and a couple of pitchers.
the bullpen isnt an issue to me, like it was earlier. i think we have enough arms to have a solid bullpen. i expect moylan and soriano to be good coming back. gonzalez will be very solid. id bring back bennett and carlyle. thats five spots. if we resign ohman, and keep nunez around, who has been very good, we still have monir league depth with some respectable arms. acosta, boyer, julio, rideway, stockman.
dont forget, doc, we have a pretty young team, and if a few of these guys have a career year(johnson, escobar, kotchman) we could be dangerous.
i think you and i agree that we arent going to become a GREAT team in one offseason, but i think we can become a good one, and with some luck (good years from a few players) we might win something.
By keylargo
September 29, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
This is very unimportant, but I just curious and would like some help with the answer.
I was checking the muts payroll ($138MM for 08) and noticed Billy Wagner was still on the 40 man roster. I have heard for months how he was through with the muts, but I looked up his contract and he is under contract for 09 at $10.5mm and 10 at the muts option of $8mm. He has a complete no trade clause.
He isn’t as through with the muts as it might seem. What’s going on?
By DAP
September 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
DOB great info from wren about hes planning to do. that is going to provide a great platform for us to discuss who we will go after. thanx, DOB.
two starters PLUS hampton. good to know. i agree with him that one big bat would make a big difference(doc).
By shelbydawkins
September 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
I’m as happy as anyone to see the Mets fail…however I’m much more pleased that the stinky fish didn’t make the playoffs. I see them as much more of a rival than the bumbling mets. 1997 and 2003 still make me sick. They play every damn game with us like it’s the seventh game of the World Series.
By mbatl
September 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, Wow! Great report. And while I’m at it, let me add mine to the season-ending thanks to you and Carroll for this great blog… it adds a lot to the “avocation” of being a Braves fan.
By flange1
September 29, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
Wagner had Tommy John surgery and will be out all of next season.
He does not believe the Mets will exercise his 2010 option.
By Saltywoody
September 29, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Those are great things to hear from Frank Wren. Despite how awful the team looked at times this year, I think they actually do have a really good nucleus and a lot of depth. To have Anderson, Blanco, and Schafer (Anderson hitting about .300 in the majors, Blanco playing a solid defensive outfield and hitting just slightly below average for almost a fully year this year, and Schafer hopefully continuing to climb the ranks) competing for one outfield spot is not a bad thing.
Just not sure how i feel about Hampton/Glavine. Smoltz? Absolutely. If he can throw, he can find a way to win. But Glavine was not spectacular before he got hurt this year, and I wouldn’t bet on anything from Hampton ever again, despite his performance at the end of this year (keyword being “end”).
Also, I write for a kind of crass, casual sports blog with a couple friends. And there’s a good article for Mets Haters here:
http://thesportsbizzo.com/2008/09/the-metsa-tradition-of-sucking/
It’s a little vulgar, but nothing you probably haven’t all heard before.
By Darren
September 29, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Congrats Chipper on an amazing year. You are the best.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
keylargo people consider him done with the mets because of his age, plus the fact that he will miss all of ‘09 and the mets wont pick up his ‘10 option. also, he wont stop running his mouth.
By Hoosier Aaron
September 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
DOB, great stuff - thanks.
You know what they say about opinions - everybody’s got one…..
Here’s mine - for what it’s worth.
I do not think Kelly Johnson will be in a Braves uniform on Opening Day next year.
Reasons: 1) He finished the year very strong - duh…value up. 2) He hits left handed. 3) We have Kotchman, Chipper, Mac, and possibly Blanco, Anderson or Schafer in center - all lefthanded hitters..Chipper obviously bats both. 4) That’s a lot of lefthanded bats in a division strong from the left side of the mound. 5) Prado is finished with Triple A. He can play in the Bigs and while he can play many positions we don’t need two Omar Infantes’.
I think Kelly is used in a trade…Prado goes to second and Omar - Super Utility.
Please disregard this if we can get our hands on Uggla.
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Moby Grape, so you want to replace Kelly’s bat with Renteria’s bat, at this stage of Renteria’ career? You’re just going to gamble that last year was a fluke for him? You see his stats last year? Compare them with Kelly’s.DOB
no way Dave, I either garbled what I meant or you misread my post. Someone else wanted to put Esco at second and Renty at SS and I responded that Renty was likely done as a full time player and I couldn’t see wasting Yunel’s skills at second. Guy is gonna be a defensive force at SS over the years IMO.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Wren on Smoltz and Glavine: “I�ve talked to both guys. �We HAVE to fill the spots in our rotation, without regard for them. And then if they can come back and pitch, maybe it knocks a young guy back to Gwinnett. But we can’t count on [either of them].”
By mbatl
September 29, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
The offense wasn’t bad this year. 6th in runs scored, 3rd in BA and 4th in OBP. 3rd in Walks, and 2nd in fewest K’s. We have a lot of good hitters on this team.
And we actually scored more runs/game AFTER Tex and Kotsay were traded than before.
One strong bat in LF, plus it’s reasonable to expect improvement from KJ, Esco, Frenchy, and Kotchman as they enter their late 20’s (prime)… and the offense should be more than adequate.
By BossLady
September 29, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
McFann O –[zz]
Thanks for the tune, it is one of my riding tunes. A little old for you I guess, but, classics have no age limit.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
While the Braves are willing to trade from their minor league systen, particularly from their pitching depth, Wren was adament that they would NOT trade from what they see as their “next wave” of top young talent, the Heywards, Freeemans, Hansons, Schafers (I asked him those four names, specially, and he said all were in that group. Wouldn’t say which others would be).
Hallelujah!!! Glad to see that FW has an eye to the future along with an eye to the present.
Great report, DOB. Very good insight into what is going to be a very turbulent offseason. Just a quick clarification, though: he DID say that Hanson was untouchable, right? It sounded like he did but I wanna be sure…wouldn’t want my main man being traded, lol.
By Fred
September 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB, Thanks for the great information, as usual. Did FW say anything about improving the bullpen? We probably need to either re-sign Ohman or get another lefty. Do you get a sense that they will attempt to get a righty, too? Thanks!
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Moby Grape, glad we cleared that up. I shouldn’t know you wouldn’t suggest that deal….
Here’s WREN on the trading prospects: “We’ve got a lot of prospects, but it’s a fine line. Especially when you’re making multiple-player trades. Because we feel like we’ve got a wave of talent coming, and we won’t trade from that wave of talent. That’s not the way you build a winning team. You may win one year doing that, but [not long term].”
When I asked, that’s when he confirmed he meant Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Schafer and others of that ilk. That’s the “next wave” he talked about. Said Braves always were good at working a player or two into roster from minor league system, but haven’t had impact guys since the 2005 group. The ones he referred to are the “next wave” of that kind of player, in his view.
By raindawg722
September 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for all the great blogs and game stories this season. Your Wren post already has me eagerly anticipating updates from the hot stove league.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Hate to see the season end, still enjoy the Braves even in such a frustrating season. Got a chance to finally see the Braves in person both Saturday and Sunday and it was great.
I see no time has been wasted and the hot stove discussions have started in earnest. It will be an interesting offseason, one I’m sure that will be hotly debated.
None of Bobby’s quote surprised me except no mention of Glavine. I still believe that the old guys will be back, especially if the Braves add an OF making $18 million.
Funny how $18 million for an OF is plausible, but $20+million for a Sabathia is considered outside the Braves philosophy?
Thanks to DOB for all the great work. Sorry you had to suffer in your hotel. At least it wasn’t for very long, some of us had to go a bit longer without power, thank goodness for some cool September weather.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Just to follow up on DOB’s report, if Frank is telling the truth, then I really like the approach that he’s taking with the club. Keeping good players like Kelly, Yuney, Kotchman and our top-tier prospects in the organization is solid strategy. Plus he sounds like he’s going to be aggressive with our cash and other prospects on top of it. Also love the approach he’s taking with Smoltz and Glav, although I’d still love to see Smoltz in the fold, and maybe even Glav in the 5 spot if we pick up a couple of solid starters. Good stuff.
mbatl, nice post at 2:34. Did we really score more runs/game after the Tex trade? I wouldn’t have guessed that…
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
On possibly trading from a position of strength in the minor league system:
“I think we have great pitching depth. We get teams asking about guys in trades who are not in our top 10 pitching prospects. So I think that’s an area where we could put together a [trade] package.”
By cardvol
September 29, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Are Norton, Ohman, Glavine and Hampton the Braves’ only free agents. Which Braves are eligible for arbitration. Sorry I missed this.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
BossLady—
You’re welcome! They play that one on 97.1 The River, and we bought it from iTunes.
It’s a great song!
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
DAP
You “expect” too much………of course Charlie morton can come and pitch like steve carlton and of course Jf can come out and play like Paul O´Neil and of course that Soriano can come out and pitch like Gonzo.
But then what we will be having? Same result as in 2008. Too much ifs.
Can you predict how moylan will come out of the gate? if he ever does?
what about Huddy?
What are the chances of JF rebounding? to me none……….to you like 50-75%??? that still is a big if.
If you dont think 1B is a big hole for us………..then I understand what do you expect out of this team.
If the BP is strong how come Tavarez was pitching in a lot of games? Was bobby cox giving the games away? I just doesnt add up………solid bullpen and boyer, tavarez and Ring were in the top 7 in games pitches for the braves. I dont get your idea of solid. Cause if the bullpen is so solid how come those 3 guys pitched so much if they all have 1 thing in common…………ERAs above 5.00.
By BA
September 29, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
So anders thinks the Mutts had a “shortfall”? Shortfall?!
That’s called a CHOKE.
Two years in a row. There is absolutely no excuse for a team with that high of a payroll to choke it up like good girls two years in a row.
Do like Metrosexual did- throw yourself on the mercy of the DOB/MIB/barbeque/Braves blog. But don’t come in here with that kool-aid drinking jargon about how great that gutless Beltran is, or how that clubhouse cancer Delgado is a “lock” to come back next year. The Mutts, as I predicted in MAY, will NOT be a factor in postseason, and what they have done is pull off a collosal FAILURE two years in a row. No way to justify that.
And it couldn’t have happened to a more deserving fanbase.
By matt_T
September 29, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
DOB- Are you going to the Jenny Lewis show tomorrow? I got tix this morning. I’ll buy you a beer if you’re there.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
steve from OH, yes, Hanson’s in that “next wave” that Frank says won’t be traded.
Fred, I asked him if they need a lefty, Ohman or another. He said they could use one, but the bullpen is solid in their view, at least compared to their other needs. It’s not a priority.
Not looking for them to get another righty of any note.
By mbatl
September 29, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
SteveO, by my (very unofficial) review of the numbers:
479 runs in 105 games (thru July 28) with Tex: 4.561 rpg;
274 runs in 57 games w/o Tex: 4.807 rpg.
I do think we need a slugger, and the logical position to add one is LF. Ordonez would look mighty good out there, but not sure if we could get him and protect the future too.
I would bet that a package of Prado, G. Hernandez and a mid-level pitching prospect (plus, of course, $51 mil over 3 years) would bring us Ordonez . Man, I hate to lose Hernandez, though. A lot of people think he has better potential as a CF than Shafer, and that as he grows up physically he may have enough power to play a corner spot).
By Renegator
September 29, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
There are a lot of words you could use to describe our bullpen but “solid” is not one of them.
Who knows what we can expect out of Moylan next year and if they are counting on Soriano - they are going to regret it.
Other than that - our bullpen will be the same (possible sans Ohman) so I would not call that solid.
Another year of Boyer leading MLB in appearances means another year with lots of blown saves.
By Josh
September 29, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Here is my attempt at a mock offseason for the Braves. Most of the big transactions are probably a pipe dream, save for signing Lowe. I’ve assembled the team assuming Smoltz & Glavine won’t be back, but I fully endorse DOB’s idea of allocating some money in the event one or both pitchers are available (sounds like Frank Wren does too).
Feel free to ignore this, agree with it, make suggestions/corrections, or call me an idiot! I’m not too keen on evaluating prospect values for trades so my proposals may be pretty realistic or totally insane! I’m not taking this seriously, it’s all in good fun.
Non-Tendered Players & Free Agent Departures
Matt Diaz :(, Will Ohman :(, Ruben Gotay, Corky Miller
Trade
Tigers receive – Todd Redmond or Charlie Morton, Brandon Jones, Kris Medlen
Braves receive – Magglio Ordonez (Atlanta assumes remainder of contract)
Trade
Royals receive – Brent Lillibridge, Steve Marek
Braves receive – Ron Mahay
Free Agent Signings
A.J. Burnett – 4/$68MM
Derek Lowe – 3/$42MM
Free Agents Retained
Mike Hampton – 1/$5MM
Lineup - $37,975,000
Schafer/Blanco/Anderson– CF - $400,000
Escobar – SS - $450,000
Jones – 3B - $11,000,000
Ordonez – LF - $18,000,000
McCann – C - $3,500,000
Johnson – 2B - $1,000,000
Francoeur – RF - $875,000
Kotchman – 1B - $2,750,000
Rotation - $36,860,000
A.J. Burnett - $17,000,000
Derek Lowe - $14,000,000
Jair Jurrjens - $430,000
Jorge Campillo - $430,000
Mike Hampton - $5,000,000
Bullpen - $17,960,000
LR – Buddy Carlyle - $750,000
MR – Jeff Bennett- $750,000
MR – Manny Acosta - $430,000
MR – Blaine Boyer- $430,000
MR – Ron Mahay - $4,000,000
SU – Rafael Soriano - $6,100,000
CP – Mike Gonzalez $5,500,000
Bench – 3,700,000
OF/1B – Greg Norton - $800,000
IF/OF – Omar Infante - $1,700,000
IF – Martin Prado - $400,000
OF – Blanco/Anderson - $400,000
C – Clint Sammons - $400,000
Total Active Roster Payroll - $96,495,000
When Moylan returns I would imagine Acosta would be the likely candidate to be sent to Gwinnett.
Obviously there’s some variations you could make to this. A cheaper 4-5 type starter instead of both Burnett & Lowe, scratching the Mahay trade and resigning Ohman, sweetening Detroit’s prospect package and getting them to pick up some of Ordonez’s contract, etc.
The team is strong on paper (in my humble opinion), and there is still some financial flexibility to bring back Smoltz and/or Glavine if the opprotunity arises.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
doc holliday you must not be a real doctor.
You “expect” too much………of course Charlie morton can come and pitch like steve carlton and of course Jf can come out and play like Paul O´Neil and of course that Soriano can come out and pitch like Gonzo.
i never said any of this. what are you even talking about? im not acting like i know what will happen, im just saying what i think could happen. do you have some crystal ball we should all know about?
Can you predict how moylan will come out of the gate? if he ever does?
no, can you? i dont think he is going to be terrible. do you?
what about Huddy?
i never even mentioned huddy. id hate to have your reading comprehension.
What are the chances of JF rebounding? to me none……….to you like 50-75%??? that still is a big if.
i never thought of it as a percentage, but i dont think it would be crazy to expect him to have at least a .800 OPS, which isnt great but it will mean he isnt hanicapping our team.
If you dont think 1B is a big hole for us………..then I understand what do you expect out of this team
not a great sentence, but i think i get what you mean. kotchman had some of his team’s best offesive stats one the first place angels team when we traded for him. he had a terrible slump, but he has finished well, and i think hes an average 1st baseman. a perfect #2 hitter, and plays outstanding defense. so no, i dont see a hole there. neither does the man in charge(wren), so i win that argument.
of the bullpen woes you mentioned, i included one of them in my post, boyer, as a back up. dont be stupid. i didnt say the bullpen was good this year. but, they would look alot better if they werent over loaded with to many innings. a great way to fix our bullpen is by adding starters, which we will do. soriano and moylan are good pitchers and will be back. will they be lights out? i dont know…but we dont know that they will completly suck either. i think the bullpen will be good.
its ok if you dont agree with me, doc. neither of us know for sure, do we?
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
“Free agency’s not our preference. Our preference is to build from within. But we need some veterans to stabilize the top of our rotation. And to try to provide leadership for [the younger pitchers].”
Said if they had Tim Hudson, wouldn’t need to go get two starters.
“Our expectations are we may not have him in ’09,” Wren said of Hudson. “If we get him back, it’s a bonus.”
He reiterated that the Braves prefer to develop their own guys first, trade second, and sign free agents as a last resort.
“But again, we need to get some veteran starting pitchers, and we’re going to use our assets however it takes to get them.”
By flange1
September 29, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
In terms of the bullpen,
If the Braves can get a couple of starters and we can see continued improvement from Morton, JJJ and Campy, ALL of the starters should be able to go deeper into games than we saw this year.
Boyer and Acosta have been beaten to death in this forum, but this was Boyer’s first year back from surgery and Acosta’s first full year in the majors.
Both of these guys are young with great arms.
If Soriano can come back from his surgery and if Moylan can come back from his, that is 5 good arms in the pen.
Since Bobby has a history now with all 5 pitchers, he can use them all more evenly and not over rely on a couple at a time.
While I would rather have 7 all stars in the pen, I just don’t see the pen id the area that needs to be worked on first or even third.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Wren on Chipper: “Chipper’s signed for next year. We’re fortunate to have Infante and Prado who can go over and play third base and be productive offensively when he’s not in there.
“I think we’re going to have to look at 120-125 games as where we can expect him to be. We’ve got to add additional offense [outfield power bat], because that’s a pretty big hold when he’s not in the lineup.”
By Thrillhouse44
September 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB. It’s nice having an idea of what Wren is thinking. I definitely agree with building the team as if Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine are out. Picking any of those 3 up during the season would be quite the boost for any team.
Do you think Diaz is a goner?
By DAP
September 29, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
hey doc. from DOB: * I asked him if they need a lefty, Ohman or another. He said they could use one, but the bullpen is solid in their view, at least compared to their other needs. It’s not a priority.*
looks like wren and i see eye to eye on this one, to.
By Efrim
September 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Good stuff today. If we aren’t going to part with anyone from the group of Hanson, Heyward, Schafer and Freeman, than I am guessing that Rohrbough, Locke, Flowers and Hernandez would be in play for the right players. It sucks to give up any of those guys, but you have to give up talent to get talent. As much as I like all four of those guys, if management feels that Freeman will be ready to replace Kotchman in 2-3 seasons and Schafer is our long term centerfielder, than Flowers and Gorkys can be traded for the right price. Flowers isn’t going to be behind the plate for this team. Locke and Rohrbough? Great upside. But the Braves are probably thinking they can restock the pitching with this upcoming draft. They will have some higher selections than in years past. Alex White? Kyle Gibson? Aaron Crow? Maybe they finally go with a College SP arm. Very possible. Who knows though.
I agree with most here. Burnett or Lowe is where we should look. I know some fear that signing Burnett would be a risk the Braves can’t afford to take, but honestly, the guy has some of the best stuff in baseball. He is a flat out ace if healthy. He pitched in a really tough division this year and really showed how good he could be.
I am lost on Left Field. As much as I want Mag Pipes, I am just not sure if we can take on the salary and trade away valuable pieces. Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn? Maybe, but I am scared to death of their defense. We’ll see. The guy they get might not even be on our radar. Should be an exciting offseason.
By mbatl
September 29, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Boy, Wren sure talks a lot more than JS, doesn’t he?
By kdbanks
September 29, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Lack of respect for Chipper once again from national media…this from SI.com:
“• With a batting title on the line, Chipper Jones was only available for pinch-hitting duty this weekend. He had only three at-bats the final nine days of the season and finished on top at .364. The fellow chasing him, Albert Pujols, has been playing despite a severely-injured elbow all year and finished at .357.”
By DAP
September 29, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
regarding the bullpen, even if we just forget that two very good pitchers are coming back, soriano and moylan, we can look at gonzalez, who has pitched well and should be even better next season…dont forget his ERA is inflated from a few non-save outings, buddy carlyle, who has been awesome in long relief, dudes got a 3.6 ERA, jeff bennett, who we all know took it for the team several times because of how he was used as a spot starter and not getting much rest…despite that, hes got a respectable 3.7 ERA, and if we resign ohman, we all know how solid he has been.
thats four guys in a 7 man pen who are good relievers. plus, these guys have been overused, we all know this. we can make this bullpen better simply by improving the rotation, which we all know is going to happen.
By Patrick
September 29, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
He reiterated that the Braves prefer to develop their own guys first, trade second, and sign free agents as a last resort.
That’s great DOB, but when is the last time the Braves developed a good starting pitcher? Millwood?
Do you agree with his philosphy when the minors are not producing any pitching at all…
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
DOB—
thanks for the quotes from Wren. Int’resting stuff.
By Doc Holliday
September 29, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
regarding the bullpen, even if we just forget that two very good pitchers are coming back, soriano and moylan DAP
Soriano has 2 season under his belt on that “coming back aspect”,
Moylan…….. we are not sure what to expect from him……..things could go wrong, keep that in mind. He had a surgery……..remember? Im sure you remember that dear friend.
By bravelee
September 29, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it—Chipper backed into the batting title, and avoided key pitchers during the final month or 2. If Pujols had caught and passed him over the last 2 weeks, do you think he might have played to get the AB’s to win it? The answer is yes. It was selfish, but I don’t hold it against him cause the team wasn’t going anywhere—why not pad your personal resume, right Chipper? And for Wren to pay a guy that kind of money who he says is going to play 125 games per year is absurd.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Sheesh! Mr. Bowman has a big-time typo in this article!
In the little box on the side showing the team-leaders, it says “RBIs: Jeff Francoeur, 71”
Not true, Mr. Bowman! Not true! Team leader in RBI had 87—and his name is BMac.
If our team-leader for RBI had 71, I think we woulda lost more than 90 games! As it is, 87 is a pretty low number for tops on the team.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Patrick, why don’t you read the rest of what he said. They PREFER to do it that way, but right now they NEED veteran starting pitchers, so they’re going to have to do it using the other ways, signing and/or trading for the two starters they plan to get.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong with my freakin’ connection?
By Chop Chop
September 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Today is a day when I am glad I do not own stocks.
By Braveheart
September 29, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong with my freakin’ connection?
Did McFann just say freakin’? We’ve been a bad influence on that girl.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
doc holliday Soriano has 2 season under his belt on that “coming back aspect”,
im not sure what you mean by this. he has been coming back for two seasons? is that what you mean? if so, than that is false. he wasnt hurt for most of 2007, hardly pitched in 2008. 2009 will be his first year “coming back” while with the braves. by the way, soriano was great “coming back” from a head injury in 2007, his first year with us.
Moylan…….. we are not sure what to expect from him……..things could go wrong, keep that in mind. He had a surgery……..remember? Im sure you remember that dear friend.
dear friend? youre john mccain, arent you!?! anyways, i wouldnt argue your point that we dont know what we will expect from moylan. in fact ive made that same point in at least two posts addressed to you. so why are you telling me something ive just said to you, as if you are making a point? maybe youre obama…
By Brian
September 29, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
I’m excited about how next years team is going to look! Maybe this rotten season wasn’t for the worst because now with money to spend the Braves may push harder than any time before! I can’t get over how awesome it would be to get Lowe! If this guy starts wearing down in 2-3 years(hopefully not), they can send him to the penn to be a set-up/closer. Not familiar with Burnett/Penny except for the injury talk, but they might have to take what they can get. I trust Wren, and no one has any reason not to!
By Brian
September 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
I’m excited about how next years team is going to look! Maybe this rotten season wasn’t for the worst because now with money to spend the Braves may push harder than any time before! I can’t get over how awesome it would be to get Lowe! If this guy starts wearing down in 2-3 years(hopefully not), they can send him to the penn to be a set-up/closer. Not familiar with Burnett/Penny except for the injury talk, but they might have to take what they can get. I trust Wren, and no one has any reason not to!
By Thrillhouse44
September 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Today is a day you do not check your 401k.
By DonCoburleone
September 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Just wanted to say that this has been a very disappointing year for the Braves, but I think there is a silver lining here. Upper management finally can see that this team needs to be overhauled (not re-built, just overhauled) in the offseason. I agree with what Wren says in regards to the team needs, but even if we get everything we want it is going to be extremely difficult to compete next season.
Thank You DOB for keeping us all well-informed throughout the season and I look forward to next year!
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Braveheart—
LOL…Hmm…maybe you’re right!
; ) JK. I say freakin’ all the time…
And I really say “freakin’”…you know, not that kinda language they pickup with the dugout-mic.
By Thrillhouse44
September 29, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
I think it’s going to be tough to try to play the Free Agent market. I don’t know that anyone is going to be able to keep up with the Yankees this year. Frank is going to have to get sly with the trades if the Braves want a legit #1.
By Braveheart
September 29, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
dear friend? youre john mccain, arent you!?!
DAP, I got that joke. The only one who loves saying “friend” more than McCain is Nancy Grace.
By Thrillhouse44
September 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
It’s going to be a tough year to out-bid the Yankees. I think if the Braves want a legitimate #1 starter, Frank Wren is going to have be awful sly when it comes to trading.
Man, is it possible that this off-season is going to be more enjoyable than the regular season?
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse44 Man, is it possible that this off-season is going to be more enjoyable than the regular season?
No. IMHO that’s extremely impossible!
Dang, I don’t know what I’m gonna do at 7 o’clock tonight! Takes at least a week to get over the season for me…sometimes longer. This year it might be worse because the season was so bad…and the last out was even worse.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
WARNING:
Stay off city streets on Tuesday that are lined with tall buildings. The U.S. House of Representatives voted DOWN the bail-out. The financial free-fall accelerates overnight.
By Fred
September 29, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
DOB, Thanks for the info. about the bullpen. I’m really impressed how much you got from FW the day after the season ended. Don’t work too hard!
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
i never thought of it as a percentage, but i dont think it would be crazy to expect him to have at least a .800 OPS, which isnt great but it will mean he isnt hanicapping our team.DAP
the only time he has had an .800 OPS is that short first year, so basically you are expecting him to be back to previous performance levels plus a little, next year? It could happen, I do think he will bounce back some, but I’ll be surprised if he gets over .750. We’ll see, unless he goes to KC-which I kinda doubt.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Steve, when Magglio Ordonez starts in RF for the Detroit Tigers in 2009, I’m gonna rub your ignorant face in it.
By Hoosier Aaron
September 29, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
How ‘bout these guy in a trade?
He throws 200 innings EVERY year (something like 9 years in a row) and quite frankly still has filthy stuff.
Javier Vazquez
Any thoughts on Marcus Thames to play left field? 25 HR - 312 AB
By Mitchell
September 29, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
DOB, to give you further unwanted insight into my densely layered thought precesses, it occurred to me that after I declared my adoration and love for Katy Temple yesterday, I shouldn’t have followed with, “don’t judge.”
What I meant to say was “don’t judge me, Braves bloggers, for constantly talking about Katy Temple like a dork instead of talking baseball.”
Cause now I feel like I was saying “don’t judge me for thinking she’s da bomb as if I’m alone in thinking that she is and that she’s somehow not”. Cause she is… da bomb.
I just wanted to clear that up in case anyone was wondering. What can I, she’s good at what she does.
Okay, I’ll stop talking now.
Go Braves. Mets suck.
“All that phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust.”
Joe Strummer, how dare you.
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
I can’t get over how awesome it would be to get Lowe!Brian
I think Mr. Lowe is going to be a very popular fellow this season from a lot of teams. He might not end up as cheap as some seen to think he will.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Thames has a lot of pop, but poor OBP and average. Without looking it up, probably strikes out a lot. How is his D?
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Congratulations, Frank Wren. Now let’s see if he goes after the right guys, and by right guys I mean no Garland, no Lohse, no Sheets, and no Penny, and not spending the whole payroll on CC. If he is looking to guys like Burnett, Lowe, Hampton, Dempster, and Oliver Perez, I like it.
Now what kind of power hitters. If it’s Juan Rivera, Cliff Floyd, Raul Ibañez, Willy Mo Peña, or Mark Kotsay, he is on drugs. I really don’t like any of the guys in the outfield position in free agency, but I’d be happy dependind on the price with Adam Dunn(15 mill/per season), Pat Burrell(13 mill/per season), and Mike Cameron(8 mill/per season).
Aubrey Huff, Magglio Ordoñez, and Matt Holliday are the trade candidates.
By katz
September 29, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Steve, when Magglio Ordonez starts in RF for the Detroit Tigers in 2009, I’m gonna rub your ignorant face in it.
Cooch, you need a woman.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Concerning the Detroit Tigers and Magglio Ordonez.
Miguel Cabrera 127 RBI
Magglio Ordonez 103 RBI
Nobody else on the entire roster has more than 66 RBI. The only way Maggs gets traded is if Dave Dombrowski parks a truck load of dynamite under the team and pushed the plunger. And that ain’t gonna happen.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
flange1:
Dude, it’s not BOYER’s arm that troubles me, it’s his head. Trade bait.
By Josh
September 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Tigers could opt to trade Magglio Ordoñez, a fan favorite
By Mitchell
September 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
I have but one post-season playoff prediction.
Phillies… underrated, under-appreciated possibly. A lot of talent, tons of offense, could go far. Who knows?
But hear me know, believe me later: Brad Lidge will blow a save in the playoffs.
You don’t go 70 and 0 when leading after 8 for nothing but that mark is glaring. It’s calls out to be busted, and the silence is deafening.
Woah, that’s deep.
Even after a great season, Lidge is due for a blown save in a huge situation.
Look at the difficulty he had closing out games against the Braves this year. We could never get it done cause we sucked but he almost blew it multiple times. And much like Gonzo, he’s shown he’s ineffective in non-save situations.
Somebody is gonna get to him. Wouldn’t be the first time obviously.
The Phillies also got nothing against the kind of pitching they will face.
But who knows?
I still like the Rays to go all the ways.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
According to Mark Bradley, Wren has said that the free agent market isn’t deep, and they should obtain a starting pitcher via trade…..
Come on compare to last year, with Glavine, Silva, and Schilling as the top starting pitchers. This year CC, Sheets, Burnett, Dempster, Lowe, Garland, Hampton, Lohse, and Oliver Perez. This year is paradise. I think resigning Hampton will be an inteligent move depending on how much money he is asking, if he agrees to a 4 million dollar deal with incentives, thats perfect. CC, and Sheets are out of the question I would guess, so Burnett, Hampton, Lowe, Dempster, and Oliver Perez should be the guys Wren should be interested in(I hope), and signs 3 of them. Lets be realistic, if they do trade for a pitcher who would it be? Justin Duchscherer(who is injured and has had health issues)? Maybe Matt Cain, he is the only one that makes sense. The power hitter should come via trade, with Aubrey Huff, Magglio, and Holliday as the candidates.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
I’m not encouraged at all by Wren’s comments. He seems to contradict himself in stating the Braves’ priorities. He seems to say he is going to hold on and develop players, while seeking trades, and look at the market last.
How do you hold on to players , yet make a series of major trades in order to address multiple issues? Seems to me it’s the very players that are worth developing that other teams are going to demand, especially for frontline pitching. Is he’s going to use “middle of the pack” talent to bring back better talent?
I wish he would have used the word aggressive somewhere in his statements.If payroll is to go up, I fail to see how not pursuing any big money free agents is a virtue.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
Mitchell But hear me know, believe me later: Brad Lidge will blow a save in the playoffs.
Huh…Remember what he did to the All-Star Game. If they make it to the WS, it’s his fault that they won’t have home-field advantage.
Haha! I’ll never forget that ASG as long as I live! That was crazy! What’s even crazier is that I stayed up till 1:30 and beyond to see Martin finally get taken out! Oh man…The things fans do for their team sometimes, I tell ya…Haha…
By Josh
September 29, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
kirknga I see what you mean but I interpreted Wren’s comments as basically saying “Normally we prefer to improve from within gradually, but this offseason is going to be an exception to that”. It has to be; the teams needs can’t be addressed by promotion if the team wants to contend in 2009.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Tomas I think you make a great point about the level of talent available on the open market this offseason. I think it would have been more honest to say that he did not want to pay the going rate for the talent rather than imply that the talent available was thin.
I’ve been saying for awhile that Duchscherer seems to be someone who makes sense. Otherwise what you’re trading for ,from the names suggested, are what we already have, namely older guys and guys with a few injuries on their resumes.
I think Oliver Perez is fools gold. The only value in signing him would be that we would not have to face him anymore.
I wonder if Seattle will go into complete fire-sale mode and part with Felix Hernandez?
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
kirknga Without putting words into FW’s mouth, I think what DOB was reporting is that FW’s preference of getting replacement players is 1: from within, 2: trades and 3: Free Agency.
Now, what I heard (and I didn’t go back and re-read) is that he has some money to spend this year, and the primary way of spending is generally via the FA route. Sounded like he was saying he was going outside of his preferred way this winter, due to the needs of the team.
I think he is saying he would not rule out trades, but that he is keeping his top level prospects (can’t remember the exact term that was used).
Not to worry. Frank will do OK.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
I was just watching the highlights of former brave Kyle Davies, and what a dumb trade that was for JS. Davies is throwing at 94mph, I remember he threw at 88mph, and ended with a 9-7 record and 4.06ERA. JS, why?
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
DOB If the AJC article you are doing on your conversation with FW includes any additional nuggets of information, please let us know when it has been posted.
Thanks again for the excellent report today!
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
The weekend was almost perfect (short of ATL going to the playoffs). The Cubbies are back in the hunt, the “New-Rays” are in it for the first time, the “beautiful teams” from the left coast are in it, and NO, I repeat, NO New York teams are smelling the post season.
Minnesota is hanging on by a single Tiger run (too bad, Ozz).
I am hoping for a Cubs/Rays WS.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
Kyle Davies
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I’m talking about Bradley’s column, not anything from DOB.
I agree with you thats why I said they need to be able to do it in any manner. But reading the context of that quote, it sure read to me like he was ruling out not only Sabathia, but all of the free agent starters.
Braves have multiple holes. It seems to me that in order to fill those holes and contend again that the Braves would have to come close to trading every great to descent prospect they had which would be at odds to the “grow your own approach”.
Sorry, but I am worried, he never once said(or it wasn’t included that he said it) that the Braves expect to contend next year or any other year for that matter.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Is it a travel day for the BRAVES.? I can’t seem to be able to find them on XM. Hallucination blues rule in Braves land while our economy collapses like a house of cards.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the response about my Hanson question (happy to hear that particular response, lol). Glad to see some people can rise above the occasional disagreement and keep it professional. On the other hand, here’s Coach at 5:22:
“Steve, when Magglio Ordonez starts in RF for the Detroit Tigers in 2009, I’m gonna rub your ignorant face in it.”
And here’s me at 11:17:
“No one is saying Mags is a sure thing to go.”
And again at 1:03:
“If Magglio is seen as that important to the Tigers by their FO, then I agree that it would be silly for them to trade him. You’re blowing what I’ve been saying way out of proportion.”
Once again, I never said Mags was a sure thing to go. Seems likely (based upon a plethora of published reports), but some clever roster manipulation keeps him in Detroit in ‘09. The reason you think Mags will stay is the exact same reason I’d like him in Atlanta in ‘09—because he is good. So if Magglio is in Detroit in ‘09, you’ll have proved exactly, without a shadow of a doubt, that Detroit finds Magglio useful. What a revelation. So yeah, go ahead and rub my face in it all day, Coach, because you’ll have proved exactly nothing. He could be on the block and still stay in Detroit if they don’t find a deal to your liking. Will you still “rub my face in it” then?
I’m speculating becuase I’d like him in Atlanta. Wouldn’t you (please answer that one for me, at least)? If he’s not here, he’s not here. Means that FW and the gang probably found a deal that was more to their liking, or it means that Detroit values Magglio enough to raise payroll a little (real big shock there. Boy, I’ll be just super embarrased if that happens). Dude, I don’t mind chatting with ya if you keep it civil. But apparently you can’t if someone dares to disagree with you (which, ironically, I’m not in this particular instance).
By katz
September 29, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Nice to see good ole Dewayne Wise score a big run there on two wild pitches. Can’t believe that dude is still hanging around.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Damn Tomas, almost everybody had given up on Davies during 2007. The call went out for his “head” on a platter. We picked up a guy for the stretch run, that didn’t pan out, and now 1.5 years later, you are second guessing the GM???
Being the GM a year later, and from the keyboard is easy money.
For the very same reasons, I hope we end up hanging onto JoJo Reyes and Charlie Morton. You just never know when these guys are going to come around.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Well scratch Lohse off the list of possibles. He just reupped with the Cardinals.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
DAVID:
I’m beginning to get the idea that you don’t approve of a RENT A RIA reprise. That was my postulation earlier that MP picked up on. Good of him to leave me nameless. I was just trying to momentarily block out the red haze before my eyes from looking at my stock portfolio. What little there is left of it. Whats a couple of hundred thousand anyway (kiddin’ again).I was funnin’, really. No harm, no foul bro’.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
WAYNE:
I don’t know about JoJO, but I’m still high on MORTON. He’s gonna be a good #3 for us by the end of ‘09 unless this shoulder problem sets him back.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Steve: I think everybody else understood your position on Mags, except for our beloved Coach.
kirknga Go back and re-read Bradley’s article. I think he (Bradley) is interjecting some thoughts that FW might not pursue Sabathia, but nowhere in his report does FW say he will not pursue FA rotation starters.
Again, go back and re-read it. I sure didn’t hear what your hearing. I heard (mostly via DOB) that FW was going to veer from his normal course this off-season and pursue FA pitchers, as well as using some prospects to maybe trade for others.
As for the Braves needs, I think we have 3 specific needs, or 4 players in my mind.
A power bat for the outfield, two starters, and a player who can spell Chipper at third (and the other corners when needed) when he is not in the lineup.
If we resign Ohman, I am OK with our pen. If we are able to add a few arms to the rotation, then Campillo might end up back in the bullpen. With the hopeful return of Moylan and Soriano, our bullpen will get a huge boost. Then, guys like Boyer and Acosta can be utilized in a manner that will not wear them out by August.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Lohse = 4/41M. Probably not a bad contract, and the dude is a Boras guy, I think…..
richbrave Much earlier I was wondering out loud if “Rent-a-SS” would be suitable as a second baseman. I think there is just some sort of phobia he has for the AL. I would like to have him in my lineup in the #2 slot, but not at the expense of Escobar or KJ. Only if KJ is used to get a pitcher.
You got me afraid to turn on the News tonight!
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
kirknga, i think you read into something what you want to see, and take stuff and turn it around to where you’ve totally misinterpreted the intent. Just my opinion, but you couldn’t have been much further from what Wren said.
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
richbrave I feel the same about Morton, but there have been times this year, when Reyes looked like the real deal. I hate to give up on a lefty, with his potential.
Gotta run for a while…later.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
WAYNE:
No 401(k).? You’re golden.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga, I really don’t think the mariners would trade King Felix, unless they are overwhelmed by an offer, which the Braves shouldn’t do. If they’re going to rebuild, they’re going to build around him, and trade Beltre, Ichiro, and the other old guy(28-40). Duchscherer is not the guy for a couple of reasons: he is currently injured, has a history of injuries, and this was his first season as a starter, really the Braves don’t need a guy like him.
The trade market for the SP is thin. Who could be traded?
Matt Cain, seems to be the only guy who is on the block and has value. Ian Snell(had an awful year) is another guy, but I don’t think the Pirates would trade him. Jeremy Guthrie, is another guy, but the Orioles are in desperate need of pitching and I wouldn’t think they would trade there ace which is very affordable, and relatively young. Cliff Lee, no way he is traded. Roy Oswalt, the Astros have shown a lot of times including this year that they want to win, and they love Oswalt. Zack Greinke, he is a valuable guy, and the Royals have shown interest in trading him, as well as Gil Meche, and Joakim Soria(who will be moved to the rotation).
The only true valuable candidates that would help this team are: Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Gil Meche, and maybe Joakim Soria. Only 4 options, that’s thin. In the market I see Burnett, Lowe, and Dempster as the most affordable and quality pitchers for the Braves, but there is also Hampton, Pavanno, Mussina, Oliver Perez, CC, Sheets, Byrd, Garland, Garcia, Maddux, Kip Wells, Randy Wolf, Braden Looper, Ponson, and Colon. Free agency is much more competitive, but if the Braves have 48 million they have the upper hand, why trade, and then regret it like the tigers when they traded for Renteria this offseason and gave up Jurrjens. I don’t know why anyone would prefer to trade.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
WAYNE:
I supposed KELLY to left and RENTARIA at short with ESCOBAR to 2B, but really I was just exercising what little gray matter I have left.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
OK…OK! I gotta get this off my chest:
I’d just like to apologize for what I said in my response to Thrillhouse44 at 9:40 this morning. I’ve been regretting that all day, TBH…
In fact, I behaved kinda badly about the whole thing on Saturday…It was really stupid to act like that over something so harmless. So, I’m sorry. I feel bad about it. It really wasn’t that big of a deal.
By McFann O –[zz]
September 29, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
So…it’s now 8 o’clock…What on earth to do now? Now all we have is political shows…BLECH!!
Hey! The White Sox are winning! It’s 6-2 in the eighth! Looks like there’ll be a tie-breaker tomorrow!!
Ah! Baseball!
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I’m just saying to trade a guy like Davies, a top prospect in the organization for a guy that lasted a month with the organization, struggled, and got injured. I was checking how he was doing, and he has ace stuff now. I thought it was a dumb trade then also. JS did a lot of great things, but that definitely falls into the category of the bad trades. Being a GM is no easy task, and he did a great job with this team making them succesful for 14 straight years. I just didn’t see any logic in trading Davies straight out for Dotel. Dayton Moore got the better part of that deal.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I was agreeing with you on the point of prioritizing the manner in which the Braves acquire players.
And starting pitchers, Wren allowed, are a more pressing need. He wants to find two of them, and the fan’s kneejerk response is to think, “No problem! We just buy CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets!” Without quite saying such a thing isn’t going to happen, Wren hinted it isn’t going to happen.
…” Speaking of free-agent starting pitchers: “The marketplace in some respects is dwindling. It’s a very, very competitive market. We’d like to get a couple. That being said, the market keeps going down.”
If you take those statements to mean the Braves will be players, then ok. I don’t.
By DAP
September 29, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
moby grape good point about francouer, my bad.
coach could you be any more of a jerk? no one has guaranteed that ordonez will get traded to the braves. the only person pompous enough to make guarantees about stuff no one can know is you.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Ok, DOB. Ouch. I guess I couldn’t just be wrong, I have to be a twister of words too! And to think I thought I had descent comprehension skills too, oh well. I noticed you didn’t provide an example, but ok I can take a sucker punch :)
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Unlike others here I don’t have a problem accepting when that happens.
I gave my reasoning to Wayne and I use the full quotes(as given to us by Bradley) from Bradley’s column.No twisting. I stand by that. You are wrong, so is Wayne.
I took the thrust of the comments to dampen expectations that the Braves would be players in the market. If someone wants to point out how the words don’t mean that then please do so.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
In a perfect world the Braves would sign Aj Burnett(4yrs 65 million), Derek Lowe(2yrs 28 million), Mike Hampton(1yr 4 million), Will Ohman(3yrs 9million), Mike Cameron(1yr 8 million), Greg Norton(1yr 1.5 million), and if Smoltz and Glavine show they can pitch sign them to a 1 yr deal with incetives worth 2 million. Then trade Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge, and Jo-jo Reyes for Aubrey Huff.
That would fill all the holes, and make the Braves a true contender.
In that case were the Braves get a power hitter for a full year, they can trade Jo-jo who has been given a lot of chances and still hasn’t been succesful. He still has potential and has trade value because of it.
By StingerSplash
September 29, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Gotta admit — I like next year’s infield a lot, especially (and that’s a big especially) 10 can play 135 games. Escobar’s a keeper, without a doubt. Shortstops with his arm and bat don’t come along that often. Well, OK, maybe for the Braves (Furcal, Pepe Frias … hey, how did that slip in there) they do. Johnson needs to find more plateaus and fewer peaks and valleys but I believe he is certainly capable of doing so. The outfield was a weak link all year long and so was the pitching. A lot of arms in the bullpen, but how many are truly reliable? Jurrjens is ready to become a No. 2 guy and Campillo is great at 4 or 5. I am glad to see that Wren isn’t penciling in Smoltz and/or Glavine. I mean, they’ve been great and they’ve meant a lot to the team and the fans, but at this stage and their age …. It will be an interesting offseason for Mr. Wren.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Tomas
I’m just trying to figure out who the Braves could trade for. People have tossed out all kind of names and rather than just say they’re crazy or wrong, I try to think well what would it take for the Braves to actually get that player, if he’s worth getting?
Thats why I think it’s going to be hard to go get a Peavy, or Halladay(who is an old guy too ), or even an Oswalt. Unless a team is looking to unload players, then the offer extended is going to have to be a doozie in order to pry these guys away.
The Braves could make such an offer, I doubt they can make more than one which is why I think Wren is going to have to play the market to address all of the needs so that the Braves are contenders again.
By Moby Grape
September 29, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
moby grape good point about francouer, my bad.DAP
I didn’t mean it as “your bad”, I just thought it was a bit overly optimistic, but I am more than willing for you to be correct & me to be wrong, believe me. I’m not a Jeff fan—some of us posted last winter that we thought he was a bit over-rated because of the RBI totals, but I’m not a Jeff hater either. He brings some good things to the table and can be a decent support kinda guy, but hopefully we won’t need to rely on him being a real star cause I just don’t think he has that in him.I never have.
By Efrim
September 29, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
I thought this was an interesting article from Keith Law. He didn’t think Ryan Howard was one of the top 10 most valuable players in the NL. Not saying I agree with it, but it’s interesting. Also, he opens it up by talking about the Mets:
The Mets’ failure to make the playoffs is even more astounding when you look at some of their individual performances this year. Santana was the best pitcher in the NL. Beltran had a great offensive season and another ridiculously great defensive season. Reyes and Wright had fantastic years, and Carlos Delgado had a strong year … and yet a bad bullpen, no offense from their catchers or second basemen, and rotation problems overwhelmed all of those performances. Building the supporting cast is a big part of crafting a playoff team.
Also missing the cut is Ryan Howard, who is getting MVP love but isn’t even the most valuable player on the right side of the Phillies infield. The infatuation with boiling an MVP or Cy Young vote down to a single counting stat like home runs or pitcher wins is an ongoing failure of the awards process.
Why does Omar have a job right now?
By Brian
September 29, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
MobyGrape- Sorry,this is kinda late but I realize Lowe will cost 14-15 mill. per yr. but that shouldn’t surprise anyone. He’s well worth it to me(well not really but that’s MLB in 2008).
By ncscoots
September 29, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
The Braves could make such an offer [a big one for a big player], I doubt they can make more than one
Depends. Teams rebuilding will often take quantity, if the trading partner is truly adamant about the exclusion of certain players. While lesser-hyped prospects aren’t as sexy as trading for an org’s top prospect, getting more of them increases the chances that at least one will contribute down the road.
And the Braves have depth on the farm, so a couple of those many-for-one trades could be made without dipping into the “new wave”.
Though, personally, I’m all for pillaging the farm to get Jake Peavy. I’d give a lot of pitching prospects to have that arm and that contract. Just as well it’s an unlikely scenario, LOL.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim, that was a good article (I’ll link it here). I liked his analysis on the NL Cy Young, too. Made a good argument in favor of Johan over Lincecum. But you can’t go wrong with either one. Are you allowed to vote for two people in the #1 spot? Because they both deserve it, IMO.
By Original Jon
September 29, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB You know, I am sure this has been mentioned and if so, I apologize. But here is my take on why Kelly was so successful towards the end of the year, he realized that he didnt have to draw the walk as much and be as patient of a hitter that he had to earlier in the year. Thus allowing him to be more aggressive and get more base hits. I think earlier on, he was putting way to much pressure to be a good leadoff guy or number 2 hitter. Now he is just having fun.
By richbrave
September 29, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
MOBY GRAPE:
Thanks for not mentioning where your RENTARIA postulation originated. I appreciate that. But unlike METS fans, I will own up to a questionable thought or two. And speaking of two. I thought FRANCOUER was golden during the winter hot stove sessions here. Kinda’ like MORTON now. But unlike JEFF, I actually got to see how overpowering CHARLIE became over the course of 12 starts in RICHMOND. He needs consistancy, not just throwing strikes, but how to be a pitcher instead of just being a thrower. He has to learn that in the bigs unfortunately, and he is not a quick study. But he is steady and will succeed in becoming an effective pitcher in the majors. JF hopefully effective also, but I gotta’ say ‘09 better be his breakout year or I think he’ll be left out in left field.
By roja
September 29, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
Santana the “best pitcher in the NL this year”? Hes a pitcher who has NEVER beaten the Braves - even as bad as they were this year. CC is head and shoulders above Santana IMHO
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
Efrim, did you see this take on the Omar Minaya extension? A pretty good take on the whole deal.
I’d say it’s good for the Braves, anyway…
By Kim
September 29, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
What am I supposed to watch on TV? I’m going to have to start reading or something. I don’t know what to do without my Braves! Aaaaahhhhh!
OK - that’s out of my system. I’ll be fine. Thank goodness I have this blog!
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Peavy, I forgot about him. I know he’d love to play for Atlanta, he is definitely be another trade candidate, but Wren should try the FA market first, and if the only one left for him to sign is Garland then try to get someone by trade like Peave, Meche, Greinke, or Cain. Roy Halladay wont be traded in my opinion, because Toronto just lost a pitcher to TJ surgery, and wont be able to resign Burnett.
By Efrim
September 29, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Yea. I agree. Santana probably has had the best season considering the competition. I guess I would still go with Lincecum though.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
ncscoots, I agree with you about pulling the trigger on a trade for Peavy. But again, if the Braves do that, then it’s hard to do what Wren says is their first priority and that’s to develop from within.
I can see the Braves using that depth to take on a big contract like such as Ordonez, because that would require less prospects. Then they could still pull the trigger on a Peavy, or Halladay, or whoever, but they don’t have enough to do it all through the farm system.
They are going to have to get in the market if they want to fill all of the holes.
We’ll get a good read I believe on how the offseason will go in how they handle Ohman. Will they pay what it takes to keep him or let him walk too?
By Cam
September 29, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Interesting, either Wren is being polite or he truly believes that Francouer’s problems are due to being too muscular and heavy!!! Come on! What does that have to do with plate discipline? His bulging muscles caused him to swing at pitches in the dirt, sure, I get it now.
By Cam
September 29, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Interesting, either Wren is being polite or he truly believes that Francouer’s problems are due to being too muscular and heavy!!! Come on! What does that have to do with plate discipline? His bulging muscles caused him to swing at pitches in the dirt, sure, I get it now.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Kirknga: God knows the Braves have provided plenty of reason to be p’d off at them this season, plenty of legit reason for a fan to gripe.
Just don’t understand how you could possibly be disappointed by what Wren said today, unless you simply don’t believe he was being honest.
Because he, 1. Said the payroll is going up. 2. Said the Braves are going after two proven starting pitchers, and those two are in addition to whatever they do with Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton. 3. More or less onfirmed they’ll have at least $40 mill to spend, (he wouldn’t give an exact figure when I asked a couple different ways). 4. Said the Braves will use their assets to fill their priorities of two starters and an outfield bat, be it through free agency or trades. 5. Said that while they might trade prospects, include some of their next-tier pitching prospects, they would not trade from the core of top-rated prospects coming in the “next wave,” the big guns like Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, Hanson and several others.
What is it with some out there. Is it, if a team signs Sabathia they had a great offseason, and if they don’t, they did not have a great offseason?
By Wayne
September 29, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Tomas JoJo could be 2007’s Kyle Davies.
kirknga I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but I am not sure how you can disagree with a guy who was actually there, and asking some of the questions?? Puzzling how you won’t take an insiders word for the tone and message. I read your reprints, and they still didn’t tell me what you think you heard.
Back in a few days!
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
I agree with you about pulling the trigger on a trade for Peavy. But again, if the Braves do that, then it’s hard to do what Wren says is their first priority and that’s to develop from within.kirknga
Aaarggh. WHAT are you talking about? Wren was merely giving us the overall M.O. of the Braves franchise when he listed those three strategies of getting/developing a player. He was NOT telling us how they wanted to do it this winter. Just the opposite; he was saying how this winter, they have an unusually high (for them) amount to spend and more big-ticket needs with a couple of starters and a big bat, so they’ll need to do it through free agency or trades rather than using their own home-grown players to fill any of those needs.
That’s all he was doing, staying how the Braves (like most teams, especially in this day and age) would prefer to build from within rather than restock via free agents, as not many teams can afford to do the latter, particularly not a team with a $100 mill-or-less payroll, whether that payroll is self-imposed by them, by ownership, whoever.
By Brian
September 29, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
DOB- Some people just don’t comprehend the obvious, do they? Anyways, what about keeping all of our top prospects and not trade them because that would….KIDDING!
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
The names I keep hearing are Sabathia, Lowe, Burnett and even some pitchers who aren’t even free agents.
However, the real free agent sleeper is Ryan Dempster. 17-6 with an ERA of 2.96.
Even more jaw dropping is his home record at Wrigley Field, 14-3 with an ERA of 2.86. I mean, come on, that’s impossible.
Nobody has been as consistent this season as the Cubs 31 year old right handed starting pitcher when it comes to free agent comparison’s. Not even C.C. Sabathia.
Dempster has 31 starts of which 21 have been quality performances while he has had just one bad game all season long, as he gave up more than four earned runs just once. He has actually out pitched Sabathia overall in 2008 with the same amount of wins (17) and 4 fewer losses while making 33 starts compared to Sabathia’s 35, not to mention that he is four years younger than Derek Lowe.
If Dempster can be persuaded to part ways with the Cubs as he has expressed his desire to stay with the south siders, I believe he more affordable than Lowe, Sabathia and Burnett.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Who do you think Wren will, or should sign? Your opinion…
And do you think the problem should be solved via free agency or trade? And if it is by trade, which would you see the Braves going after?
By RMR
September 29, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Carlos Lee? Any thoughts people? I can see us going after him as the Big Bat who would take pressure off many hitters including Francoeur.
I also still think Roy Oswalt is still going to be a Brave or rather yet, I still think the Braves are going to go after him. The Package will include Morton and Lillibridge. He is an ace. Simply put. They just have been winning out there in Houston. And after a while it takes a toll. Like Smoltz in 06 & 07. Then you can go after a Derek Lowe, Oliver Perez and re-sign Mike Hampton. I like the idea of Perez as a hard throwing lefty. Any thoughts?
By Anders
September 29, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Efrim
What should have Omar done that he didn’t do? He couldn’t have known Church would have two concussions in half a season? Before Church got hurt he was having a terrific year. Maine and Wagner going down wasn’t his fault. I’ll give you that signing Alou was a hail Mary pass by him but who should he have signed instead? All that was lost on Alou was money. He had Tatis in the wings who did a great job until he got hurt. Castillo was a strange sign as well, but I’ve said before that he was signed to indirectly placate Santana as he and Castillo are good friends off the field. Can’t prove it but late in 2007 Castillo made a big deal with the media that he’d try to convince Santana to come to the Mets when he’s a FA. As for the bullpen - that’s a crap shoot for everyone. Should Wren be fired? The Braves pen wasn’t anything to brag about. Signing Soriano looks pretty suspect at this point.
The bottom line is Minaya has built a team that’s been in or around first place for almost every day of the last three seasons and they went right to the last day in each of them.
How many teams can say that the last three years? Why don’t the 25 or so that can’t fire their GM’s? Sorry, but Minaya is too easy a target for many on here and as far as I’m concerned he’s delivered more than most.
The guy stole one of the best pitchers in baseball and we have him for 6 more years! That alone should buy him some more time.
He was on the FAN today talking about how hard he tried to get Manny Ramirez but couldn’t make a match. And he wanted Fuentes but the Rockies were still kind of in the race so they weren’t selling. There wasn’t much else out there. The only NL team that had a solid season was the Cubs. All the other playoff teams and the Mets sputtered off and on all year.
BTW- The Mets might make a run at Manny this off season. Minaya is infatuated with the guy. Crazier things have happened.
By RMR
September 29, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
Coach
I like Dempster but he is in the breath as Mike Hampton. And what I mean by that is he a sense of loyalty or indebtedness towards because they stuck by him and allowed him the time to fully heal from his injuries and become a starter again. He went through a 5 yr stint as an oft-injured starter/reliever with Florida, Cincy and the Cubs, after the 03 WS championship . Now that he is back on track, I just see him staying with them. He would be a good pickup though.
By katz
September 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
He has actually out pitched Sabathia overall in 2008 with the same amount of wins (17) and 4 fewer losses while making 33 starts compared to Sabathia’s 35
Ryan has thrown well but he has also received a full run of support more than Sabathia and has had a better pen. Cooch, the game has passed you by.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga, I agree with you on some of your thoughts. But I really think Wren is being realistic. If they traded Texeira, because he wanted a deal worth more than 20 million per season, Sabathia will definitely be out of reach. The Yankees have 90 million coming off there imense payroll, and they need pitching. Use logic, who do you think will outbid the Yankees for CC.
If what you mean is Wren may be contradicting himself by saying they have a “next wave” of prospects which they won’t trade(according to him), and then saying they prefer to fill the starting pitching need by trade, because the FA market is thin, I may agree with you, because how would anyone expect to get an ace like Peavy, Cain, Meche, or Greinke without giving a top prospect like Heyward, Schafer, Hanson, etc.
The FA market is not thin…. Last year it was thin. He needs 3 pitchers even if he doesn’t resign Hampton, and the 3 of them should be good, and reliable, but he says he needs only two. That’s a mistake, if he really wants to have depth and be able to have a world series caliber team. The power outfielder should come via trade, that would be the best thing to do. Wigginton, Huff, Holliday, and Magglio would look very good in a team like the Braves. If they trade for Magglio, I can’t see them not trading away one of theire “next wave” prospects.
By Livan Fernandez
September 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Same old P.R. BS from the esteemed blog moderator. No matter what off-season moves are made, you can bet the farm he’ll pick the Braves to win the N.L. East again.
By Anders
September 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
BTW- I neglected to offer my Congrats on Chipper winning the batting title this year. While I know he can’t win the MVP because of where the Braves finished I think him hitting .365 this year is more remarkable than Ryan Howard producing the runs he did. Chipper had a lot less protection and doesn’t play in a ban box. Plus anyone who strikes out almost 200 times shouldn’t be entitled to any offensive award IMO.
I’d be honored if one of the seats I sat in at Shea ends up in Chippers rec room. Bet you guys never considered that possibility.
Oh, the humanity!!!!!!
By brian
September 29, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
would the braves consider trading Escobar straight up for a young pitcher like Matt Cain or Ervin Santana or another top young pitcher if the other team approached the Braves about this?
Or will the Braves attempt a package of KJ, Lillebridge and a pitching prospect for someone like Matt Cain?
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
DOB and **Wayne, look guys, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Time will tell.
I gave you the relevant quotes to back up my impression.DOB if Wren had actually fleshed out his statements like you did @10:11 then I would could see it. Your explanation of what he meant sounds more encouraging.
But I’m sorry if you guys feel that there is no inherent tension between a commitment to developing players and using a large number of them as trade bait. And a large number indeed if you look at the number of holes to fill on this team.
As someone pointed out in the comments on Bradley’s piece, how many times have fans been told(by McGuirk) that the Braves can spend what they need? And if this is true, why is it that we are not likely to be bidding on a Sabathia or big-ticket guy? I know that was not a part of Wren’s comments, but I thought it was a very good question.
By Steve from OH
September 29, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Uhoh Efrim, ESPN is reporting that Sergei Gonchar is out 4-6 months with shoulder surgery. I bet the Pens are really glad that they re-upped Orpik now…
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
I would love to have Hampton back, but I know that it won’t happen. There is too much interest in him, and it would be dumb for the Braves to get in a bidding war to get him. If he agree’s to sacrifice at least 4 million, to “repay” the braves faith for him, it would be the only way he is coming back. But Hampton has always wanted the big bucks,and thats why he went to Colorado and got that big contract. Those are signs that reveal he isn’t going to sacrifice 4 million. mlbtraderumors say the Astros are the most likely candidate.
By Anders
September 29, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
Brian
Who was the last top flight pitcher traded that wasn’t on the verge of FA? That alone should tell you that young guys with possibilities ain’t gonna get it done the names you mentioned.
Fully developed top starting pitching is impossible to get unless you overpay in players or $’s. You’ve offered neither.
By Tomas
September 29, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Matt Cain is said to be “untouchable” in a trade. So we’ll stop with the Cain trade scenarios for now.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
DOB, after reading your story I feel more encouraged. I think there was much more information there to draw a different conclusion than those that I based my comments on in the Bradley piece.
By mbatl
September 29, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
*kirknga *, I heard Wren interviewed a week or so ago and he pretty much said the Braves are willing to spend “big bucks” on pitching… specifically, he said we would definitely add pitching, and that of course he knows it will be expensive.
But, he expressed great reservations about giving really long term deals to any pitcher. Said that six years or more just presents too much potential downside on the outer years. I think that’s why we won’t contend for C.C. Not so much the dollars, but that someone will offer him 6 or 7 years, and the Braves won’t do that.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 29, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
On more important topic that has not been addressed as of yet.
The Braves need to find a competent back up for Brian McCann.
Three names come to mind.
Ivan Rodriguez, Jason Varitek and Johnny Estrada. The first two just aren’t capable of suiting up everyday anymore. But would be really good back up catchers.
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
mbatl, I’ve given up on my fantasy that the Braves would make a strong push to sign Sabathia.I still think he’s worth Santana money, but the Braves don’t do those types of contracts apparently/ I don’t think Sheets would be a good investment.
So I take the “willing to spend big bucks” at face value and understand that big bucks doesn’t mean big enough bucks to sign a rare talent.
It’ll be interesting to see what will happen. I love hot stove time.
By Coach (I'm an insufferable drunk)
September 29, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox passed on Tony Gwynn in the draft! And Cal Ripken Jr.! He turned down a trade of Jeff Treadway for HOWARD JOHNSON!
I think either Soto or Russell Martin would be passable as back-up catchers for McCann.
O’Brien, be a dear andpass me that Night Train bottle…
By P-Town Brave
September 29, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
First of all, shutup Coach… Its like you’re trying to force feed everyone with your ridiculous opinions…
Secondly, Matt Cain isn’t going anywhere…thats about as crazy as the Cardinals trading Albert Pujols…he’s one of the two pieces they will not deal no matter what…
Third, Dempster will not and repeat NOT be leaving the Cubs…he’s way too comfortable and the Cubs can give him the security he needs and may even be able to pay a little less to do so…but thats ok, he’s not on par w/ the top flight FA pitchers…
As much as I’d love to see CC in a Braves uni, I fully expect him to be a Dodger next season.
That being said, here’s my take:
(And yes, this is from my portion on the MLBTR blog)
Realistically,
I think we can make a very competitive offer for Maggs, however if they wanted us to take on Dontrelle, I think we’d either offer much less for the package, or do it on a contingency that some money be coming our way…
Personally, I would want to stay far away from the mess that has become the D-Train de-railing…
That being said, I believe giving Lowe, Burnett, and/or Perez (2 of 3) a reason to sign here would be a great incentive…that means getting the deal for Maggs done 1st and going from there, showing everyone they’re serious about contending next season…
Maybe swing a deal w/ someone for another SP using KJ in the deal since Prado has certainly proven he is capable of handling the position…
If we trade KJ we should be able to get a considerable bounty enough to get someone young, talented, and under control for 3+ years…Ian Snell comes to mind as Pitt could use a 2b…then again, maybe someone else has another player in mind (not named Cain or Lincecum or something ridiculous)
But here would be my opinion for a favorable 09 lineup and rotation:
1) Anderson cf 2) Prado 2b 3) Jones 3b 4) Ordonez rf 5) McCann c 6) Escobar ss 7) Kotchman 1b 8) Francoeur lf
1) Burnett/Lowe 2) Perez 3) Snell 4) Jurrjens 5) Hampton/Morton/Parr
That would give us a real chance to be competitive and also not risk much on our farm system…Maggs gives us just enough time before Heyward is ready…
Thoughts?
By kirknga
September 29, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Tomas, as I said, with the addition of DOB’s article, I feel better about what Wren says are his intentions.
That said, the issue still remains who to target. I still believe Sabathia will push upwards the price for Lowe, Dempster, Burnett, Garland. I expect the Braves may have a shot at one of them, but in the end, bringing back the old guys will make more sense budgetwise.
Let’s hope that they can pry someone away in a trade.
By David O'Brien
September 29, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
God knows the Braves have provided plenty of reason to be p’d off at them this season, plenty of legit reason for a fan to gripe.Me at 10 p.m.
Same old P.R. BS from the esteemed blog moderatorLivan Fernandez at 11:02 p.m.
Livan, do you have even a rudimentary understanding of the principles of “P.R. BS”?
By Brian
September 29, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
Anders- Come over to our side! I beleive the Brave power is starting to consume you! By the way there is a Brian(me) and a brian.
By BA
September 29, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
No Perez. He’ll have that choking Mutt’s blood all over his hands. Stay FAR away from any of the gutless losers from THAT franchise. We need winners. Not Mutts.
By katz
September 30, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
Cooch, are you a Cheetos or a Doritos guy?
By P-Town Brave
September 30, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
[http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080914/SPORTS02/809140446/1050]
After reading that article, I tend to believe a deal surrounding Lillibridge and Soriano as the main pieces would get something done…maybe add in a Brandon Jones or minors OF not named Heyward (obviously)
By Chop Chop
September 30, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I’m sick of your sycophantic tripe. How dare you concede that fans have a reason to gripe! That’s the same old pessimistic junk you always type.
Damn you to Hell for all eternity, my friend.
(A fourth end-of-sentence rhyme didn’t come to me naturally. Oh, well.)
By kirknga
September 30, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
*P-Town Brave *, I think that’s a good call on the Tigers likely wanting to include Dontrelle in the deal.
I don’t see bringing in Snell except as an innings eater. JJ is better than Snell, and I believe Morton too after a full season.
Burnett/Lowe works. Perez is unreliable. Better to sign Burnett and Lowe and add them to Hampton, and JJ and Morton.Though I still like Duchscherer is worth a good look.
The lineup works though I’m not sold on Anderson.
By BS Master
September 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
Lots of talk of who and how much…. This is what we have to look forward to for the next 3-4 months. Will we go for CC, is he worth 6-7 years?
How about Abreu for LF? Will the Giants trade Tim Lincecum for Prado and Reyes, if we throw in Scott Thorman.
Tighten your seat belts, we are in for a long, possibly bumpy ride!
By James
September 30, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
Lew, the reason I said to sign Orlando Hudson was because I figured to get one of those top of the line pitchers in a trade we would probably have to include someone like Kelly Johnson. I figure to get Greinke or Cain would have to send a cheap desirable major league player along with prospects. I know some of it may be pipe dreams but if we get something close to it would love our chances going into next year
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
After reading that article, I tend to believe a deal surrounding Lillibridge and Soriano as the main pieces would get something doneP-Town Brave
You think Soriano is a great trade piece? No. Not a guy who missed most of the season for elbow problems, then had nerve-transposition elbow surgery late in the season.
He’s supposed to be ready for spring training, but I don’t see any team wanting not just to take him and his $6.1 mill salary in 2009, but also willing to give up a talented pitcher or player in a trade for him. No way. Not before teams see him pitch in plenty of games and he proves he’s healthy. And I don’t know that the Braves would want to trade him in that case, anyway.
By nolie
September 30, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this
Will the Giants trade Tim Lincecum for Prado and Reyes, if we throw in Scott Thorman.BS
now that was funny
By Junior
September 30, 2008 3:08 AM | Link to this
Someone mentioned trading KJ, getting hudson for 2nd.
Not bad.
I think this option allows Prado to be a replacement for Chipper. In that regard, Prado has more value than KJ, because it seems the Braves have no other viable replacement for Chipper Jones in the organization. They have infante, but if Chipper goes down, the bench is spread thin.
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 30, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this
P-Town brave, I’ll do the shutting up. Otherwise, kiss my arse and go screw yourself. Does the weasel have a comeback to that?
The idea that the Braves have no shot at Ryan Dempster is defeatist in it’s simplicity. Only an idiot would think in such narrow minded terms.
Just the facts please. Dempster will hit the free agent market. The Atlanta Braves have 45 million to spend. Frank Wren has made veteran starting pitching his stated number one priority. The Cubs right hander has had an outstanding season worthy of a three or four contract in the 48 to 60 million dollar range. The Cubbies are already committed to a 2009 payroll of 115 million not including salary arbitration and free agency. Dempsters agent will be out a job if he doesn’t listen to competitive offers for his client.
By Bravo Nam
September 30, 2008 6:07 AM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for another year of hard work for the faithful…have enjoyed reading your insightful and informative comments.
One question- Why has John Lackey’s name rarely been mentioned by anyone as a potential free agent signee?
By Random
September 30, 2008 6:15 AM | Link to this
Anders on Philadelphians:
“They’re an angry and nasty lot on the whole.”
I can attest to that. And it’s not limited to sports, either.
By ncscoots
September 30, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this
a favorable 09 lineup…1) Anderson cf 2) Prado 2b
Somehow, 1000 AB from Anderson and Prado doesn’t sing “pennant winners” to me, LOL.
By katz
September 30, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this
The idea that the Braves have no shot at Ryan Dempster is defeatist in it’s simplicity. Only an idiot would think in such narrow minded terms.
like how you have already quit going after magglio?
By BS Master
September 30, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this
Mets fans commenting on Phillies fans …. priceless!
By DAP
September 30, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
the cubs definetly have the upper hand in resigning dempster, but its possible he owuld sign elsewhere. if the braves make a competitive offer, he may sign with us. and he is a good one.
By Not a Cox Fan
September 30, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Who really cares if Chipper retires as a Brave ?
Which is more important to the Braves, having a true TEAM LEADER that really cares about the team and winning, or their current ” team leader ” ( Chipper ) that only cares about personal statistics ?
We all know how the current setup is working out !
By tkg
September 30, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
So let’s assume Burnett, Lowe and Dempster sign with current teams or elsewhere for more money than the Braves can/will offer — a distinct possibility.
If you’re Wren, do you spend big bucks then on Lohse, Byrd, Garland, Looper, Penny, etc.? Or, do you keep the money in your back pocket, try to improve the team through trades and rely more on Smoltz, Glavine & Hampton making a comeback?
If Wren can’t get one from the group of Burnett, Lowe and Dempster it seems the Braves almost will have to overpay for the someone in the other class, because other teams like the Reds, Royals, Angels, etc. will be needing to fill spots, too. When that happens, guys always wind up making more money than they are actually worth, it seems (Adam Eaton comes to mind).
I think the Braves are going to go after Garland regardless. He’s 29, an innings eater, not a world beater but pretty solid. Plus, they were interested in trading for him two years ago.
Personally, I hope they get at least one from the Burnett, Dempster, Lowe class, and I really hope they wind up with Burnett and Lowe. I think Burnett or Lowe along with Garland is who they will ultimately make the big plays for, if they can’t acquire someone through trade.
But if they can’t get Lowe, Burnett or Dempster because teams like the Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox are in on the bidding, I almost hope Wren signs Garland only among starters and then tries to pursue trades. Even if he can’t trade for a No. 1A or No. 2 type of pitcher, I’d rather save the money for after next season than overspend in years and dollars on guys like Penny or Looper.
That would be a roll of the dice for Wren’s job security possibly, but isn’t every move that way?
By TommyP
September 30, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Someone please tell me the infatuation with acquiring Jon Garland?
Just take a look at his hits per 9 innings and that soft strikeout ratio (not everything but it’s important) and you’ll see the name is bigger than the production.
1 very good year….that’s all he’s had.
By Lew
September 30, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Not A Cox Fan-Dude, just shut up and go away. Your And Idiot.
Anders-You’re comparing Minaya and his several years of non attainment with quite possibly the best lineup in baseball (at least in 06) and a pretty well unlimited payroll, to Wren who was in his first year and had a bunch of old, overly large contracts and a stagnant payroll to deal with? Let’s get real here Dude. Minaya could not have competed with a rotation 3/5 rookies as a result of losing 3/5 of their starters, their top set up guy and their closer for the entire season. You talk about losing Wagner and Alou. Wow. What about what everyone told you prior to the season was a woefully inadequate bullpen that Wren did nothing about? Face it-MInaya just isn’t effective and no one has any idea if Wren will be or not.
Dude-it’s time you finally came out of the closet and admitted you’re really a Braves’ fan. No other reason for you to come over here if you weren’t. Just let go and come over to the Bright side of the force. The Mets will do nothing but break your heart and turn you into a disgruntled fan who’s only goal in life is to have a better record than the Braves..
For those who actually think we can get Burnett-don’t be so sure he’s going anywhere. Heard an interview with him on XM last week and he basically said he would be returning to Toronto-that they were committed to having Him and Halladay at the top of the rotation for some time to come.
By DAP
September 30, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
as far as pitchers we could trade for, there are some pretty good ones out there that might be gettable.here’s a quick list of a few ive thought of:
Justin Duchscherer- in 22 starts this year, he 10-8 with a 2.54 ERA. he is in oakland, which means he got terrible run support. he gave up only two runs or less in 5 of his 8 losses. wow. he got injured this year.
erik bedard- hes a power lefty who had 221 Ks in 182 innings in 2007. he had to have shoulder surgury this year. so, he is also a injury concern, but he could be gotten.
aaron harang- this guy had a very bad year, but he is a power pitcher, a veteran, and he might be expendable to the reds, who have several very good young pitchers. i would be very excited to get this guy.
bronson arroyo- this guy had a very bad first half, but he really figured something out in the second half, going 8-4 with a 3.12 ERA. hes a veteran who again, might be expendable to a reds team with starting pitching depth, and other weaknesses.
aaron cook- ive always liked this guy, and it would be very hard to get the rockies to part with him, but a rocky pitcher with sub 4 ERA is pretty good. he pitches alot of innings, but doesnt miss many bats.
anyways, just a few to think about.
By Efrim
September 30, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Uhoh Efrim, ESPN is reporting that Sergei Gonchar is out 4-6 months with shoulder surgery. I bet the Pens are really glad that they re-upped Orpik now…
It sucks. That’s basically the season. The first two months we won’t have Malone or Gonchar. Big problems for the blue line on the Power Play, that was already going to take a hit with the loss of Hossa. Hits just keep on coming for the Pens.
DOB
When the Braves tried to trade for Garland a year or so ago, was it because he was the only pitcher available that made sense, or because BC, JS and company liked him? I know that they must of liked him a little bit, considering they almost traded Renteria for him, but I am just trying to gage whether or not they would be interested in him this fall. If they can’t sign Lowe or Burnett, would they fall back on a guy like him. I figure he could command what Kyle Lohse just got from the Cardinals. I’d appreciate any thoughts you may have on this. Thanks.
By Hoosier Aaron
September 30, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
I totally agree that we need a couple of serious inning-eaters. Wren said he’ll be looking for veterans.
I really would be shocked if we made a play for the top couple of pitchers. I think the usual suspects will way over pay for those guys. Then you get into us overpaying for middle of the road guys.
While I know Wren did not say we wouldn’t be in the free agent pitching market - I’ll be surprised if we land one of the top 4 -5 free agent pitchers.
I see veteran innings eaters as some of these guys:
Aaron Harang, Javier Jazquez, Daniel Cabrera, Bronson Arroyo, Kevin Millwood, Gil Meche, Carlos Silva.
Younger guys like Tim Redding, Jason Bergman, John Lannan and maybe a couple of the Bucs might be had.
Now the fun part will be if we make a big splash (Tim Hudson-ish). Are there any studs whose contract expires after ‘09?
By DAP
September 30, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
lew he basically said he would be returning to Toronto-that they were committed to having Him and Halladay at the top of the rotation for some time to come.
did he say he was not going to opt out or were they going to negotiate a new contract? thanx for the info.
By Threadkiller
September 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
So now that we know that Burnett will be re-signed, Loshe will sign an extension, Cain & Lincecum are pretty much untouchable for us. Who do we have a realalistic shot at getting?
By McFann O –[zz]
September 30, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
I think either Soto or Russell Martin would be passable as back-up catchers for McCann.
Ha…LOL!
By Not a Cox Fan
September 30, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
LEW - Just like the line from the movie, A FEW GOOD MEN : ” You can’t handle the truth.”
Also what I think that you were trying to say was; You’re an idiot. NOT - ” Your And idiot.”
By DAP
September 30, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Not a Cox Fan Also what I think that you were trying to say was; You’re an idiot. NOT - ” Your And idiot.”
what are you, new? you really are and idiot. :-)
By Lew
September 30, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Nopt A Fan-No Dude, it IS Your And Idiot. If you had actually bothered to check in here upon occasion, you would have known that-it’s a blogism that denotes total a*******holishness. As for not handling the truth-I didn’t hear a bit of truth in any remark you’ve made ever since you began lurking under that tag that tells us much more about you and your woeful ignorance than anything relevant about anything of substance. If you don’t have anything worth adding to the conversation, like I said. Shut up and go away.
DAP-I don’t know if he opts out of anything. Just reporting what I heard in that interview. He seemed quite happy in Toronto and intimated they were happy with him. If a renegotiation is necessary, it sounds like he thought it would happen. Nonetheless, his injury history would make me leery of picking him up even if he were available. He has spent considerable downtime.
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Bravo Nam: Angels have a $9 mill option on Lackey for 2009. Not a chance in hell he becomes a free agent….
Chipper is probably getting set to have the dye injection in his shoulder about now, for the MRI. He’s having the sophisticated version of the MRI, the one that shows everything a bit clearer, from my understanding.
By BBFCFM
September 30, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
not a cox fan
Your And Idiot
By Moby Grape
September 30, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
The idea that the Braves have no shot at Ryan Dempster is defeatist in it’s simplicity. Only an idiot would think in such narrow minded terms. Coach
this from the guy who is so adamant that we have no chance at Mags? Gee that seems kinda simplistic and defeatist too T-Ball Buddy. Bubba you are such a bubba
By McFann O –[zz]
September 30, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
I love it when people don’t get the “Your And Idiot” joke!
By Lew
September 30, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
McFann-We’re going to do some Vermont leaf photography this weekend. If you’d like to see them I’ll send them along with the photos from GregInTN. It’s one of the most colorful fall seasons since we’ve been up here in The North Country. Positively an incendiary view. Not too sure if it’s worth the snow we’ll likely face this winter, but almost.
By Moby Grape
September 30, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
aaron cook- ive always liked this guy, and it would be very hard to get the rockies to part with him, but a rocky pitcher with sub 4 ERA is pretty good. he pitches alot of innings, but doesnt miss many bats.DAP
totally not interested in Cook. Lots of injured years. second half this year was a run and a half higher ERA and only pitched 70 innings. Way too risky and too mundane IMO. Duch on the other hand is quite good, but would likely take a big investment in prospects to land.
By Richie
September 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Ok. At 45 million to spend to attempt to get this team back into contention. Here are moves I think are attainable. They want to 3 veteran starters, and 1 big OF bat while not moving any of the next wave of potential Braves so they can come up unblocked. 1st, go after Roy Oswalt. He is an ace, who has made it known enough he would want to pitch for Atlanta. I would think the package starts with Lillibridge and B.Jones. Next, you go after Brandon Phillips. You can package KJ, along with Ty Flowers and another prospect for him. Next, you go after Lowe, Garland or Penny. Penny is the low risk, high reward option IMO. Re-sign Hampton to an incentive laden deal, especially since there is mutual interest. The last move(s) can be tricky. It could be possible San Diego is in fire sale mode. If this is the case, go after Adrian Gonzalez to play 1st. You can package Kotchman in the deal for him. Lastly, you can either go after Cameron or go after Josh Willingham. The Braves could afford to have Chipper and BMac miss games and no suffer with that lineup. Any thoughts?
By Richie
September 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Ok. At 45 million to spend to attempt to get this team back into contention. Here are moves I think are attainable. They want to 3 veteran starters, and 1 big OF bat while not moving any of the next wave of potential Braves so they can come up unblocked. 1st, go after Roy Oswalt. He is an ace, who has made it known enough he would want to pitch for Atlanta. I would think the package starts with Lillibridge and B.Jones. Next, you go after Brandon Phillips. You can package KJ, along with Ty Flowers and another prospect for him. Next, you go after Lowe, Garland or Penny. Penny is the low risk, high reward option IMO. Re-sign Hampton to an incentive laden deal, especially since there is mutual interest. The last move(s) can be tricky. It could be possible San Diego is in fire sale mode. If this is the case, go after Adrian Gonzalez to play 1st. You can package Kotchman in the deal for him. Lastly, you can either go after Cameron or go after Josh Willingham. The Braves could afford to have Chipper and BMac miss games and no suffer with that lineup. Any thoughts?
By Efrim
September 30, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Richie
No thoughts that you would like.
By Kentavo
September 30, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
By ugaman
September 30, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Thanks for the updates. I had a questions regarding a local band in the Atlanta area. They are Red Letter Agent (RLA). A friend of mine started the band and I was wondering if you had heard them and what your thoughts were of them. I understand they have a pretty good following in ATL.
By justdoit
September 30, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
sounds pretty good richie but cmon now? what are the chances for all of that too happen…
i like the idea of signing dunn, burrell, or manny if his isnt resigned - or any chance of vlad or crawfords options arnt picked up?around 16m-18m for an outfielder
then sign a front line pitcher - i like the idea of getting lowe or dempster - any ideas on how much lowe might get - say he gets around 15m?
then i like the idea to trade for someone like snell -pirates need a 2b right? kj for snell straight up? snell only makes 3m next year and 4.25 2010 and the next two years are club options.
thats around 35m
thats about 10+ million to work out contracts with smoltz glavin and hampton - i would keep two of the three
thoughts?
By McFann O –[zz]
September 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Lew—
Sure! I’d love to see them! Sounds beautiful! Thanks!
Yep…Any time now, the maple tree in our front yard will change to it’s lovely…uh…purplish-black…hmm…But the woods behind our house turn some nice yellows and reds.
By tkg
September 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
TommyP,
I, like you, certainly are not fascinated with Garland. I just think Wren will be looking for an innings eater that can keep his team in games, which is something Garland can do — give you 200 innings, probably a low to mid 4 ERA (at worst) in the NL and be a 12-15 game winner. And he’s someone the team might be able to win 18-20 of his starts. That’s how I view him; not a fantastic piece, but someone who can give you some quality innings for the most part.
By TommyP
September 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Posted this earlier but it didn’t show….
Arizona reportedly shopping Eric Byrnes for another comparable contract. I know Byrnes was hurt some this year but is it long term? His attitude is infectious and something our clubhouse definitely needs. Alas, I don’t think we’re looking to dump any contracts right now.
Also in Az., Randy Johnson might not get half of his contract from the D’backs ($16 mil this year). Braves have enough older pitchers needing incentive-laden deals but thought this was an interesting note.
Lohse signed long term w/St.Louis….ugh. Price of FA contracts went up.
Moby: Aaron Cook pitched more than 70 innings this year. I haven’t looked it up but I’d bet he was close to 200 this year.
With Cook, remember that he’s pitching in Colorado and always has. Makes his stats much more impressive. His groundball ratio is incredible.
And if you’re worried about a pitcher and his workload, has Ducherser (however you spell that name) ever gone over 150?
Wonder what Toronto is seeking. Marcum looks pretty solid.
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Braves probably aren’t going to have MRI results on Chipper until tomorrow, they say.
By TommyP
September 30, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
tkg: I hear ya on the innings eater aspect. But we’re talking about a guy that hitters had a .303 average against him. I just can’t see spending millions on that. I feel better with the vets coming back and counting on one of the youngsters at minimum salary to that.
That guy hits lots of bats. At least with Cook, he’s throwing some heavy sinkers that end up on the ground.
But you’re right…we do need more innings from the starters next year.
By Threadkiller
September 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
tkg, Garland is a 14 game winner with an ERA of 4.80 for a team with the best record in baseball! What do you think Garland’s numbers would be for a 4th place team? We need to get an Ace and a Derek Lowe to have any chance next year!
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
ugaman, I haven’t heard any of their stuff.
By DAP
September 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
i wouldnt mind having a guy like garland, but i think someone is going to end up overpaying him. i might give him 3 years $30mil, but i promise he will get more from someone.
By Run Heap Run
September 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the update, DOB.
By Richie
September 30, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
justdoit
The 1st 3 are very doable. I say this based on what I have been reading about the Braves potential offseason budget. 45 million is a lot, and in essence the Braves have moveable pieces. KJ’s 22 game hit streak, really made him more attractive than he was to other possible teams. Willinhgam is arb eligible and we can afford to take on his salary increase. He is also going to be 30 next season, so by the time he reaches FA, Heyward should be ready to fly. Phillips deal is worth 27mil for 4yrs, plus a mutual option that makes it 43.25 million in 2012, if he is traded. The only tricky part is Gonzalez because it is no given they will trade him. The Braves would be still well off if they kept Kotchman. The pitchers are going to take up the most salary. And any pitcher I said the Braves may target wont be as expensive as going after the big names. The big names want to be paid and of the lot, I think 5 of them have WS Rings(Penny, Dempster, Lowe, Burnett, and Garland). So they have pitched in big games. Plus you have to assemble the roster as if Smoltz and Glavine arent returning
Efrim
I asked for any thoughts. The Braves, currently constructed, are hamstrung(you know what I really want to say) when Chipper and BMac miss games. And they will miss games. The idea is to put a collection of bats on the field, so we don’t look like a Double A team out there. It has been stated we have the money and prospects to make these moves happen. I don’t see the Braves and Wren as a big players in the FA market because that hasn’t ever been MO in which the Braves brass operates. To throw around tons of money at FA’s. They will acquire salary before they attempt to lose draft picks. I believe the Braves will sign at least 1 pitcher on the market, other than Hampton, and acquire the 3rd, and/or 4th guy. I want to see the Braves get back to prominence as much as all of you here.But shelling out millions for players, like the Braves have an open check book here, just isnt going to happen.
By Daybed Wagmoe
September 30, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
He’s having the sophisticated version of the MRI, the one that shows everything a bit clearer, from my understanding.DOB
Dang, Hoss must be loaded (financially speaking, that is).
By Eware
September 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Has anyone heard anything about this Ernesto Mejia guy at Myrtle Beach? He’s a first baseman with 47 freakin’ doubles and 21 homers. He seems to strikeout quite a bit though.
I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about him, cause those numbers look pretty promising…
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Moby Grape, what TEN KINDS OF A RETARDED MAMA’S BOY ARE YOU EXACTLY???
Dempster will hit free agency, Ordonez will be available in your local fantasy league. Come back, stupid?
By Not a Cox Fan
September 30, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Jokes, ” blogisms ” or whatever aside;
The fact remains that the Braves with Chipper as their ” team leader ” finished the season with a lower winning percentage than 24 out of 30 MLB teams.
Lew- That is the truth. Look it up.
By Josh
September 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
TommyP
Marcum would’ve been a solid target but he was told he’d need Tommy John surgery about 2 weeks ago; he’ll most likely miss the entire 2009 season.
By Brian
September 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
The Braves need a power pitcher! Burnett would be good because he’s what we don’t have,obviously. But, if we get him, then I don’t expect we’d get Lowe. Or could we?If Wren says certain players-prospects, are staying, I would think that would make it harder to get a top pitcher-Halladay/Oswalt/Harang/Peavy. I mean, am I right? As far as a hitter(Ordonez), yeah I’m positive you could trade Morton,B Jones and Lillibidge for him. The Tigers will want pitching and even those three might not be enough! Who the hell knows, anyways!
By katz
September 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
what TEN KINDS OF A RETARDED MAMA’S BOY ARE YOU EXACTLY???
Cooch, you need a woman.
By P-Town Brave
September 30, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Didn’t say that I thought it was a good send w/ Soriano…just throwing it out there as he seems like the best to send out and matches Detroit’s need there…
Honestly I don’t see much in Lilli either, but he also fits their need…
Please stay away from Garland unless we end up w/ Burnett, Lowe, AND him…he’s nothing better than a 3/4 pitcher…and I certainly don’t think he’s better than JJ.
Justin however you spell his name from Oakland is said to not be going anywhere…so really, who else is available?
As well as who else is available to play the OF….we don’t really want a Pat Burrell and I don’t believe Abreu gives us the power we need if Chipper is out or if Frenchy goes into a slump like this yr…
Josh Willingham’s name was brought up and he may be intriguing, but he also gives us a defensive deficiency in LF and i