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AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > September > 21 > Entry

Here’s a quarter…

By Carroll Rogers | Sunday, September 21, 2008, 01:16 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Call someone who cares? OK, OK, that’s no way to start a blog. Just paying tribute to our postgame performer, Mr. Tritt. I hear he sounds awfully good live. Will have to keep my ears open while I’m typing up the game story.

If you ask me, it’s a fitting tribute for the last home game of the season. Hasn’t this season been like one long country song? Strife (pitchers falling left and right), heartache (losing our friend Skip Caray), a little case of the blues (Jeff Francoeur’s return trip to the minors) and in the end, all that’s really left is a country boy making a stand (Chipper Jones).

Yes, OK, feeling a little punchy, and I’m not the only one. Just came up from the clubhouse where everybody’s acting a little wacky. It’s like the last day of the school year or something.

Will Ohman was running around with a SportSouth camera trying to interview his teammates. Mike Hampton and Jeff Francoeur were going at it in some sort of FSU vs. Clemson discussion. And there’s lots of packing and organizing and doing things like making out checks to the clubhouse attendants for their year-end bonuses.

Chipper suggested in my next life I should be a clubhouse attendant. Guess the check was pretty good.

When he wasn’t giving me a hard time, we checked in on the shoulder, which is still bothering him pretty good. He said the dose pack usually starts kicking in by the third day. Today is Day 3. As of the morning, he wasn’t feeling that great. He was holding out hope by the end of the day that could change.

“I’m almost scared to throw,” Jones said. “I just don’t know. I get to right here and there’s something that’s not right.”

He got his arm up about even with his ear, when he said that.

For proof that he was hurting the team by playing, he pointed to the error he made on Jayson Werth Thursday night, when his throw pulled Casey Kotchman off the bag before Pat Burrell’s homer put the Phillies up 4-2. Friday night, he pulled Kotchman off the bag on a ball from David Wright.

“I can’t get my arm in the position to make that throw with anything on it,” Jones said. “(On the Werth throw) I tried to get rid of it quick, got a two-seam grip on it, and the ball just sailed on me. (With Wright) I was in front of that ball, got my feet under me, it still killed to throw it over there.”

Given that there’s only a week to go and there’s a batting title on the line, I asked him if he had any fears of how this looks, to be sitting out at this stage in the game with the batting title on the line. (He’s already qualified and could probably win it if he sits the rest of the way, which he surely won’t.)

“I’m not worried about that to be honest with you,” Jones said. “I want to be out there and playing, but I’m not healthy. I can’t do what I’m supposed to be able to do out on the field right now. If Martin Prado can make a better throw or get the bat head where it needs to be gotten to, then it’s better that he be out there, especially when these games mean something for one side.”

LINEUP WATCH: Just for kicks, folks, I took a look back at the lineup from the home opener at Turner Field on March 31 vs. Pittsburgh. Here goes:

1. Kelly Johnson 2B
2. Yunel Escobar SS
3. Chipper Jones 3B
4. Mark Teixeira 1B
5. Brian McCann C
6. Jeff Francoeur RF
7. Mark Kotsay CF
8. Matt Diaz  LF
9. Tom Glavine P

And now, we have today’s lineup.

  1. Josh Anderson CF
  2. Martin Prado 3B
  3. Kelly Johnson 2B
  4. Brian McCann C
  5. Omar Infante SS
  6. Casey Kotchman 1B
  7. Jeff Francoeur RF
  8. Gregor Blanco LF

  9. James Parr P

    One-third of it is the same (Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur, and Brian McCann). That’s it. Two of the guys are ailing - Chipper and Yunel Escobar, who can still hit but not move near well enough to play shortstop.

    I know things get scrambled come September with call-ups et al, but I thought that was fairly telling.

    MCCANN AND THROWING: McCann has put up another solid, All-Star season, as our McFann can happily attest, but there is one area he’ll head into the offseason knowing he needs to work on: throwing out base-stealers.

    Base-runners have run basically amok on him (and yes, the Braves pitching staff). Out of eight NL catchers with at least 70 stolen base attempts on them (0.4 per scheduled game), McCann ranks last, having throwing out only 18.0 percent (20-of-111).

    Here are the eight:

  10. Jason Kendall MIL 40.2 percent (35-of-87)
  11. Bengie Molina SF 30.4 percent (28-of-92)
  12. Paul Bako CIN 26.4 percent (19-of-72)
  13. Geovany Soto CHI 20.7 percent (18-of-87)
  14. Ryan Doumit PIT 18.8 percent (15-of-80)
  15. Carlos Ruiz PHI 18.2 percent (14-of-77)
  16. Russell Martin LA 18.1 percent (15-of-83)

  17. Brian McCann ATL 18 percent (20-of-111)

    “I say this every year but I don’t want people to think of me as just an offensive catcher who we’ll stick behind the plate,” McCann said. “I hope to improve my all-around game behind the plate.”

    McCann said he would make it a point of emphasis this off-season and heading into next year.

    “I want to work on footwork, jump rope, do a lot of cardio, try to be more of an athlete,” McCann said. “I need to start getting the ball out quicker. I need to start getting throws more on the bag. I need to find a way to do it. I don’t know if it’s focusing on footwork. Whatever it is, I’ve got to find it and I’ve got to find it soon. I’ve got it in me. I had it all the way through the minor leagues and the first couple years I was up here.”

    Also, McCann was hitting .298 entering play Sunday, and that was something he was shooting for too: ending the season at .300 or better.

    A SHOUT-OUT: DOB is taking the last road trip to finish out the season, so this might be my last blog for a while. Between helping out with Falcons, Hawks and Thrashers in the winter, I might make an occasional cameo, but in the meantime, I just wanted to say thanks for your patronage, your interest and for putting up with me for another baseball season. Much obliged! CR

Permalink | Comments (195) | Post your comment |

Comments

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH—

Thanks! I’ve been wondering about Baseball Prospectus, thanks for the link.

I couldn’t get that second link to work, but I’ll just type that address into the…thing where you type the addresses.

Saw a little bit of Will Ohman interviewing guys in the clubhouse! He was asking McCann who he was writing checks to and why, and McCann said something like he was writing them to all the clubhouse attendants who’ve helped him over the course of the year, and Will says, “Because you can’t do you own laundry…?”

And then Brian just walked away.

By supergrass

September 21, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

1st-thanks for the blogs CR

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Ms. Rogers! Hey, and thanks for the mention! Whoo-hoo!

Ugh…those defensive stats…my word…

Hey, I hope he does something about it this off-season! That would be wonderful! I’m encouraged by what he said…I JUST HOPE AND PRAY IT WORKS!!

Base-runners have run basically amok on him (and yes, the Braves pitching staff).

Yes yes…Hey, Jurrjens has the worst CS% among NL pitchers…just sayin’…

But it would be a huge help if McCann could, ahem, throw out maybe…25-39%?

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Muts fans have no right to talk smack when they lost season series to the Braves. With that BIG of payroll they should be not fighting for wildcard. Go braves!!!

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Ms. Carroll

Are you saying you might NOT blog with DOB as much next year??

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Braves haven’t announced a starter for Wednesday in Philly. It’s Jo-Jo’s spot in the rotation, and we all know the struggles going on there (3-11 with 5.74 ERA), hasn’t won since june 13.

I still think the Braves will end up running Jo-Jo out there, but maybe they could pitch Buddy Carlyle instead. No question Jo-Jo has caused some head-scratching around here.

By Stu Titantic

September 21, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Wow, Joe Simpson waited until the third batter of the game to complain about a balls and strikes call that went against the Braves.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Whoa…OK, that didn’t work…ummmm…

GO GET PELFREY!

By Jake

September 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Two non called strikeouts two runs for the Mets. I don’t know where the ump thought that pitch was to Castillo. Looked right down the middle to me. Then Delgado got a break because his bat went twice and not just once. Would have been struck I hope the Braves get the same gracious calls.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

That home plate umpire owes us two runs in the first.

What a sham.

Parr should have been out of it without allowing a run.

That’s a rip-off. I’m p**.

By cabravesfan

September 21, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

well- pelfrey just gave us one of those stolen runs back…

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

I’ll take a run.

After all the Mets only got one meaningful hit in the first.

Need a quick inning from Parr.

Should be 1-0. Would have been nice to get another hit especially with the bases loaded.

Way to walk the pitcher James.

Here’s my question: Why don’t they put Buddy Carlisle in the starting rotation?

Carroll, any thoughts?

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Why don’t they put Buddy Carlisle in the starting rotation? Mitchell

Good point. He has done this before and even if buddy pitches with his eyes closed, he will do better than that ho-ho guy.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Parr had Wright struck out.

F*ing umpire missed another one.

Can you tell I’m not taking this well?

That isn’t fair. That’s all there is to it.

By Braveheart

September 21, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting those figures? I’ve seen you citing stuff like this throughout the last few days, and I’d like to know where you’re getting it. Not saying I disagree with them by any means, I’d just like to have a new stat site to refer to, lol.

Steve, it’s just from a bunch of different sites like bballref, bballprospectus, tangotiger, fangraphs, jinaz, skyking and a bunch of others and my understanding of what they are saying.

After reading all of those stats all of the time, my understanding is this:

an average second baseman gives you about a .750 ops. I could be wrong but every 40 points or so of ops above or below that from a player is worth about 10 runs.

(to be more exact in my rough estimation, 40 points of obp would be worth about 12 runs while 40 of slg would be worth 7 runs for that player - if for the sake of simplicity, you just add the two. divide by two and average them, you get about 10 runs for 40 points of ops). If that doesn’t work let me know……

Over 700 plate appearances, I would expect Martin to be about a .750 guy like he was in the minors. I would expect KJ to be a .790 to .830 guy. That’s a 10 to 20 run difference over 700 plate appearances.

If you think I’m just crazy and making it all up, go look at batting wins for KJ on bballref. He’s got about a 37 point difference in his ops and that for the league. Divide that by 4. Divide that number by 700 and multiply that number by the number of plate appearances he has.

The number you get is about 7.7 runs over a league average hitter in that number of pas. BBall ref has him at 7.9 batting wins over average. Also, go read baseball prospectus, KJ has a 26.3 vorp. I’m guessing that’s their way of saying he is worth 7.2 runs over an average 2B because I assume an average 2B would be worth about 19 vorp through 155 games.

You can do the same on the team level. Treat every 10 points of ops for the team above or below league average as being worth 21, 22 runs (really 27 for 10 pts of ops and 16 runs for 10 points of slg).

This year, in the NL, the average team is on a pace to score 732 runs. The Braves are on a pace to score 747 runs, about 15 higher than league average. Their ops is 8 points higher than league average. If you treated each ops point as being worth 2.1 or 2.2 runs, you’d believe that a team with an 8 point differential would be about 16 runs better than league average.

Also, if you take each position for the Braves and divide by 4 the ops differential for the position and the league average ops, you get

+20 at catcher, +2 at 1B, +12 at 2B, -1.5 at SS, +46 at 3B, -30 in LF, -6 in center, -38 in RF, +2 for pitchers when hitting, and +11.5 with the pinch hitters. That gets you to about +16 or +17 runs above average when you add ‘em all - which is what they’re actually scoring.

It really shows how much Diaz and Frenchy have killed them. We all thought they would be about .780 to .800 ops guys and thus be league average for RF & LF. Because of their injuries and horrible stats, the Braves lost about 270 or so points of ops in RF & LF, which resulted in a loss of 70 or so runs.

IF the two of them had just done what we all thought they would when the season began, this would have been an 800 run team. You just can’t give away 70 runs at offensive slots. Somehow, they still managed to score more than the league average anyway. Kind of amazing

I should just be lazy and just rely on vorp ‘cause they do all the work for me and do it far better and more precisely but I like to toy around with Excel too much

…… and like Savannah Guy was kinda saying about another matter, it makes much more sense and is more meaningful for me if it’s something interactive and not just a bunch of seemingly meaningless numbers on a web site. I have to take the numbers apart and put ‘em back together myself instead of just taking their word for it.

As for the defense, I just look at a bunch of different sites that assess +/- runs for defense

Alright, that’s enough amateur hour analysis from me…. but if you hear me saying +/- runs, that’s what I’m talking about.

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Josh Anderson’s stock is sinking

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

How can you take out Buddy?

What is going through Bobby Cox’s mind?

Fine, it’s 4-2. Should be 2-0.

Why isn’t Anderson bunting? What is the deal?

He could bunt in every at bat and they still wouldn’t get him out.

Alright, I’ll (try to) stop complaining.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

*I just wanted to say thanks for your patronage, your interest and for putting up with me for another baseball season. Much obliged! *

No prob! Always enjoy your blog articles. Thanks for fillin’ in! You’ve done a good job!

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

thanks McFann!…N Nine I’ll still blog aplenty next season, just not sure how much I’ll be blogging this winter.

mitchell, that could happen - they could put buddy in there over jo-jo, though i don’t think they will. it was a waste to only get buddy in there for one pitch, though it worked out for gotay to drive in a run.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Braves gotta win this game.

They’re hitting well but we should have more runs. Pelfrey’s asking for trouble.

Just need the bullpen to keep it close.

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

first action for charlie morton since sept. 2….first action out of the bullpen

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, thanks. That sure sounds like a lot of work, though. Kudos.

If you want to do a simplistic fielding runs analyis, you could use FRAR (a BBallProspectus stat, fielding runs above replacement). Kelly has a FRAR of 35, and the replacement level for a 2B is 29, I believe.

I hope this helps, but I’m not expect on fielding sabermetrics, so…

By McFann Ô

September 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You’re welcome, Ms. Rogers. Look forward to having you back next season.

Boring game…

Is it too late for McCann to have that “big game” we were talking about earlier? Sheesh…

: (

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Nice turn on that DP by Kelly and Infante.

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Norton is amazing at Pinch Hitting. He would be a valued veteran bench specialist for next year.

Morton can try to build on this game. Good surprise appearance today. I believe he’s had one great year in minors; he might have to visit Gwinnett next year. I expect proven starters next if we want to go far.

By McFann Ô

September 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

This blog has been open for 3 hours, and there’s fewer than 30 post? Sad…

By cabravesfan

September 21, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

and the mets pen blows another lead…gotta love it:)

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

That hit by Kotchman reminds me of the scene from Major League when Willie Mays Hayes does the same thing and says “oops.”

Now lets bury these guys.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

It’s gonna be trouble if we don’t take the lead here.

Bobby better not bring in Gonzo in the 9th if we’re still tied.

Need a lead.

By cabravesfan

September 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

really nice to see Francoeur have a good game…

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Wow, the Mets really are choking. If the freakin’ Brewers could just start winning ballgames, this would be a lot more fun.

Nice hit Frenchy. Hope you’re getting ready for ‘09.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Gonna be trouble if we don’t get a lead here.

Bobby better not bring in Gonzo.

Need a lead. Got Ohman just in case but the top o’ da 9th won’t be pretty.

Jeff Francoeur you are my hero! Oh, could it get any worse for the MEts?

Jeff Francoeur… that has to hurt.

Not to be greedy but could use another run.

To paraphrase Bob Dylan, it’s not over yet but it’s getting there.

But… who will play first base?

By Braveheart

September 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Steve, the short version of what I’m saying is this:

For each point of ops a player has above or below the league average at that position, add or subtract 0.25 runs. Then multiply that number by plate appearances divided by 700.

That’ll give you how many runs above or below league average that hitter was worth relative to league average at his position for the number of plate appearances he had. It’s not really alot of work.

For the team, add or subtract 2.25 runs for each point of ops above or below league average. Add that number to the league average for runs scored and you get a rough estimate of how many they should have scored.

Ain’t perfect and is a bit of a waste of time but helped me understand those sabermetric dorks ain’t all that crazy and that they’ve already done the work for me.

Alot of people have issues with the FRAR because of the flawed methodology that leads to the final number. All defensive stats are flawed but I see that one criticized alot. UZR seems to be the best but MGL doesn’t make that readily available enough.

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

McFann and its 4pm not am..lol ..i can hear crickets in here. It is football season after all but i figure if we upset the Muts again, some chatter would creep up.

But thanks for adding to the total post in the blog :)

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

CARROLL:

You will be missed. Thanks for the great job you’ve done this year-my rookie season. Too bad I’ll only be hit and miss next year, but I’ll do what I can to add pertinent information on the GWINNETT BRAVES from NORFOLK and the D-BRAVES.

By McFann :Ô:

September 21, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Whoo-hoo! Give these fans something to cheer about during the last home game!!!!

[sniff] :,)

But… who will play first base?

Nitram Odarp

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

THE CHIPPER JONES UPDATE:

Chipper: relaxing-chewing gum-.362

Pujols: Just grounded into double play

0-3 .349

Brilliant! This is working out just fine. Pujols team has fallen out of playoffs and Pujols has declined at the same time.

By cabravesfan

September 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

mets wanted no part of chipper…martin comes through HUGH!!

By Jake

September 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Alright Kotchman, Frenchy, and Martin!!!Let’s see if KJ can apply the knock out punch.

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

7-4 BRAVES. Yeah.!!!!

By Observer

September 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Joe Simpson: “Prado and Infante are players.”

You notice he only says that for latino ballplayers?

What is a “player” anyway? Is Chipper not one? Or is he? If he is why does Joe Simpson never say as much?

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

N Nine McFann and its 4pm not am..lol

Haha! Yeah…

Football season? Ah…As long as the Braves are still playing, it’s BASEBALL SEASON!!

But thanks for adding to the total post in the blog :)

You’re welcome…actually I just looked up at the top of the page…

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

richbrave, i’ll be around aplenty next season. i just meant this winter. sorry to confuse!

this game is all over the place. but a pretty electric atmosphere i must say

By J.L.

September 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

You know the mutts are toast when Francine gets 3 hits.

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Nothing about this season is ever easy. DAMM. Where’s DOB’s sycophants? HELLO BRAVES fans.!!!! Where ar-r-r-re you?

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Aaaaaaaannnnnnnd

BRAVES WIN!!! BRAVES WIN!!!! BRAVES WIN!!!!

BRAVES WIN!!!

Close it out at home with da one run win!!

Holy cow…last home game until April 10, 2009…

Gotta run! Be back later. Great win!!

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

CARROLL:

I was just thanking you, not saying aloha forever. Sorry to mislead.

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Never hurts to have Wright and Delgado up early in the inning. That might have been ugly.

The Cobra knows how to get it done.

You can’t stop The Cobra. He’ll getcha.

I have to personally apologize to the Braves yet again. I was being a little b*** early on but they proved me wrong.

11 and 8, I’ll take it.

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

McFANN:

Thanks to you for adding so much to this blog. I always read yours and CARROLL’s posts. More than I can say for most.

By Goat Horns

September 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Prado lead the International League in hitting last year?

He has a wonderful approach at the plate.

We need to get him in the lineup next year!

By mets fan in atlanta

September 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

We might not have the worst bullpen in the majors, but our problem is they have no defined roles. That is dooming them right now.

As for the braves, I’m glad the team and the fans can get excited for one team during the entire season. It’s sad the two biggest crowds are when they are far out of contention, they can hit when nothing is on the line (francuoer)…too bad they couldn’t do that against any of the other 13 national league teams

By Snail Murphy

September 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

While Francouer goofs off in the clubhouse, he should take a long look around. This SHOULD be his last game as a Brave in Turner Field - at least I hope it is. He’s a key reason for this season’s meltdown.

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Goat Horns

Yes, he has won a BA title in the minors. He knows how to hit and will be a carerr .300 hitter. He’s a stud. Yes, great guy to build on for next year!

By richbrave

September 21, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

WELL METS fans:

Looks like the BREWERS will fold allowing you to back into the playoffs as the afterthought.

By Oh brother

September 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, he has won a BA title in the minors. He knows how to hit and will be a carerr .300 hitter. He’s a stud.

A stud? Prado? Get real. This kind of hype is amazingly stupid.

Yeah he’ll hit .300. So will many people. But it’s an empty .300. He won’t walk. He won’t hit homeruns. He won’t play defense worth anything.

There is a reason he’ll likely enter next season as a bench player and there is a reason no team will offer anything for him in a trade if the Braves put him out there. He is not a “stud”, he’s a .700-.750 OPS guy with a career minor league slugging percentage under .400.

The argument for starting Prado is pretty much the same argument for starting Matt Diaz (how’d that go?). Except with Diaz, he was good for 300 at-bats in 2006 and 300 at-bats in 2007. That was 600 at-bats, a full season, where he looked real good. So there was at least an argument to be made. Prado, on the other hand, won’t reach Diaz’s 2006 at-bat total (much less his 2007 one) of 297 this year alone. Going into next season with Prado slated as an everyday player is beyond foolish.

“Stud”….I still can’t believe someone actually wrote that.

By flange1

September 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Afternoon all,

Great game at the Ted. Glad to see the Braves win and hopefully start the Mets on another losing streak.

Love to see the Mets miss the playoffs again!

Congrats to the US for winning the Ryder Cup. Some really great golf by all participants. Very entertaining!

Carroll, thanks for leading our blog, hope you will at least “lurk” for the winter! We enjoy your input!

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Carroll Rogers and Katy Temple in the same room together. I like the sound of that.

Now if they could just leave and give Bobby Cox and Mark Bowman some alone time. Yeah baby. That’s what I’m talkin’ about.

Bouyah!

By Savannah Guy

September 21, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Last night from a Muttropolitan:

The METS will take the series tomorrow with Pelfrey taking it to you… Time to erase this game and get back to the drwing board. The METS are still in a pennant race you know…

No, actually we don’t know about any Mutt pennant race. Looks like the season is once again slipping from reach, yet the tired old refrain, “The Amazins” still seems to work just fine. Mutts are about to make baseball history… again! Maybe the blog will finally be cleansed of the obnoxiously gloating Muttboys.

Meltdown - Part Deux. Now, that is truly amazing.

By Jake

September 21, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Oh brother

What’s your problem man? Did Prado hurt your feelings at some time to the point you can’t even appreciate when someone is doing well for your team. What has he done that’s so bad but play well when called upon and never complain. The guy is a good player and has been more than what we asked for this season.

mets fan in atlanta

Sore loser much? What did fans not show up in New York all those years when you were out of contention down the stretch? You pick a heck of a year to talk junk but the fact of the matter is your team got beat again by a bunch of retreads and minor league players. The ump spotted you two runs in the first and you still couldn’t win. Say what you want about frenchy this year but he always seems to come up big against you guys. Talk your junk now because your schedule does actually get hard now. Brewers aren’t dead yet at 1 1/2 back and if they can actually take advantage of their schedule the wild card may not be as much a lock as you thought.

By Braveheart

September 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

We might not have the worst bullpen in the majors, but our problem is they have no defined roles. That is dooming them right now.

I thought Wagner blamed Willie and peterson for that last year. Willie and peterson ain’t there anymore but you’re still blaming the coach and the manager. Sorry, you can’t blame the coaches, the manager or the “roles”. They just stink out there.

they can hit when nothing is on the line (francuoer)

yeah, you’re right, there’s nothing on the line for frenchy ……….. just his career, money, confidence, …… ya know, when my career is in the toilet, i’m in danger of being fired or relocated somewhere I don’t want to be, i’ve become a joke in the town i was raised in, the whole world blames me for the season going down the drain …… yes, that’s when i say there is nothing on the line for me …… oh what’s that? that’s the kind of situation that makes me have fatal thoughts of suicide?

By Gary

September 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Well another home season comes to an end and no playoffs. Bummer. I am really looking forward to winter and hopefully the Braves can reload. I think they were jinxed from the beginning this year thanks to the old timers in the rotation and the Tex cloud hanging over everyones head. None of that going into next year please Frank Wren.

On another note, let me close out my final season blog post (will be quite busy this next week, but will be around some during the winter). I owe a huge apology to Kelly Johnson. All summer long I called him a bum and talentless hack. Though I still don’t think he is a 2B, he did come into his own late this season and I hope he is back in some form but if not I wish him the best. Kelly my man, you are now a baller and I was wrong. Well good luck this week Bravos and take it to the Phils and Stros. As for the fellow denizens, see you guys during the winter. Hopefully it will be a great one.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Richbrave—

You’re welcome…But thank you! I appreciate teh support.

I enjoy your posts, too! You gave good Minor League reports! I hope I cann get to a few Gwinnett Braves games and do the same thing for you!

Speakin’ of the Minor Leagues…What ever happened to BMac’s brother, Brad? I tried looking him up on minorleaguebaseball.com, but it came back with nothing. Anyone know what’s going on there?

By Couch Tater

September 21, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Hey Braveheart- Nice weekend, eh?

By cabravesfan

September 21, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

McFann

I believe Brad McCann retired- think he lives back in atlanta these days (can’t remember where i heard that- think it was during a game…)

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

As we can see there are no Muts fans here today…wonder why?

By N Nine

September 21, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Tech,Dogs,Falcons,and Braves(series) all win this weekend. Time to flip the bottle!!

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Let’s leave the MEt fans alone. If they want to come on here that’t their problem.

I still have a hard time generating a great deal of animosity towards that team. They’re hard to hate really when they’re so easy to beat.

But give their fans credit, they keep rooting for a rally or comeback far beyond all reason and evidence to the contrary.

By spotts

September 21, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

When McCann first came up, don’t I remember the announcers bragging about how good a defensive catcher he was?

By Francoeur-Royals '08

September 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

“Are the Royals currently interested in making a move for Braves’ right fielder Jeff Francoeur? The Royals have very few guys with solid OBPs, and adding Francoeur to the everyday lineup doesn’t seem like the route to go. Still, he has a long-standing relationship with Royals GM Dayton Moore, so it could be a valid possibility. The Royals have said they are willing to part with anyone aside from Zack Greinke, Gil Meche, and Joakim Soria.”

By Braveheart

September 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Couch Tater but this weekend ……… it’s gonna be a blackout ………… ooooooh, i’m so scared ………..

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

asked Bobby after the game if he thought parr had a blister or something when he and Jim Lovell ran out after parr walked pelfrey on four pitches. this was his response:

“I thought maybe he was hurt because he was only throwing 80 miles an hour and it was the pitcher up. He said no I’m fine I’m trying to throw a strike. And I said we don’t we don’t throw strikes that way. We don’t take velocity off the pitches. He said he was fine, and he was fine.”

By Metropolitan Man

September 21, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

There is not enough alcohol to tame a rabid METS fans these days. You guys did it to use again, playing your hardest against evdidently your most disliked rival. The METS did actually deserve to lose this game. Getting runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out and scoring zilch brings no sympathy from me. METS can’t expect help from nobody even though it would be nice. The philthies beat the Marlins so we lose ground, but the Marlins gain no ground in the wild card and we see them to close out the season so as you can see its not easy being a METS fan. I can’t take anything away from the braves today, for 2 nights you gave your fans something to cheer about and to finish your home games with some fight, I’m just hoping the METS can be that focused when closing out SHEA. Oh well you sent my team home with their tale between their legs and a nasty taste in their mouths, lets see if they respond against the Cubbies. Have at it braves bloggers, you are killing my season and with the games you have left, you still can help determine who goes and who dont make the playoffs. You got a season and series win from the METS, your 2008 accomplishment has been met.

By Carroll Rogers

September 21, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

And some stuff from Frenchy. No way could i use it all in my game story, but thought you might want to hear:

Francoeur: “It’s kind of ironic, last game of the season you have one like this. That’s all I wanted, was to finish strong and have some confidence going into next year. I know what I can do. I know that I can play. and I know that Frank Wren to Bobby Cox, they’ve told me personally that (they are confident) that I’m going to come back and have a good year next year. That meant a lot. When the ball came off the bat on that last one, it was just like a breath of fresh air. Especially against him. Out of there whole bullpen, that’s the toughest guy for me to hit – Joe Smith. Just because he throws that sidearm frisbee crap. I was looking for that slider and it was nice to be able to just react to the fastball and just put it out there.”

“For me it meant a lot to get back and just show hey, I’ll be ok. If anything, I’ve learned to persevere through stuff like this. Learned a lot of lessons as far as the mental side of hitting and being back to myself. I’m back to playing at 218 (pounds). My swing is back to being quick. I think that was the key.”

By Couch Tater

September 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Carroll Between helping out with the Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers, in the winter, I might make an occasional cameo…

So, seeing others? I guess this means baseball bloggers are just friends. Oh…..and I thought we had something special. I guess all this baseball talk was just a ruse. You really didn’t want a long term relationship talking trades and winter meetings. You really want action.. personal fouls and forechecking.

Well, have a good winter Carroll. I guess we will see you when you lower yourself to come around the old baseball blog.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan—

Thanks for the info.

spotts—

Really? Hmm…Not surprising (dare I post this?):

Baseball Prospectus, 2005 Jarrod Saltalamacchia is ahead of him on the depth charts, and the Braves privately don’t care for McCann’s defense.

Anyway, moving on…

By Couch Tater

September 21, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, yes but we should really see what we’ve got afterwards.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Well, this is a step in the right direction, anyway.

By Greg in TN

September 21, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Evening lads and lasses…

An eighth inning triple by Francouer sparks a late rally and a Braves win against a beleaguered mets bully. The Braves complete their home schedule with a 43-38 record and played in front of some nice crowds at 755 Hank Aaron Drive over the weekend.

Tonight is the end of an era when Fort Knox, The Bronx closes out the most famous home field in baseball when the House Ruth Built takes it’s final bow and then awaits the same fate the Polo Grounds and Ebbets Field received, which is a wrecking ball.

Even though the ballpark certainly became a house of horrors for denizens in the 90s, no one can deny the place in history this building will hold. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Maris, Rizzuto, Ford, Jackson, Munson, Guidry, Mattingly, Jeter all called this field home.

Some things I’ll always remember. Yankee 3rd basemen (and future Brave) Graig Nettles snagging everything that came in his direction in game three of the ‘78 series, Reggie Jackson openly weeping while standing in right field the day after the untimely passing of Thurman Munson in ‘79, the pine tar incident with George Brett in ‘83, Jeffrey Maier’s interference in the ‘96 ALCS.

By Metropolitan Man

September 21, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy

Ok, so they didn’t take the series. If all our baseball predictions for our teams came true, there would be 30 teams in the WS every year. Keep playing for pride because you can’t expect to keep beating the METS and get a high draft pick also…..can you?

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Some gracious and humble words from the vanquished Met Man.

But I do love this part:

You guys did it to us again, playing your hardest against evdidently your most disliked rival.

My goodness. “Evidently”? The force is strong with this one.

No hard feelings Met Man.

Speaking for myself, I just wanted the Braves to win today (although I tend to want them to win everyday) and the fact that it was against Los Mets is definitely a plus. I won’t lie.

But if there’s a snowball in Hell, we’ll try and go beat those Phillies to help you out. But don’t count on it.

And I’m being very serious. You should really avoid putting any money on the Braves anytime in the next three days. Don’t do it.

Sorry.

By lyndseykathleen@yahoo.com

September 21, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Today was GREAT!! I would have to say one of the most fun games of the season with how loud we were ;) (minus Chipper’s 400th…that was the best game I went to this year!) Way to own the Muts! I made sure to tell every mutt fan I saw that I love their bullpen!!!

By Metropolitan Man

September 21, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Mitchell

I’m going into this last week of the season not knowing what to expect in the Cubs series. One thing to expect though is the braves trotting into that philthie sanbox already set in their heads to lay down for the philthies but put on a good show. That plan will continue until the philthie fans start mocking the chop and p issing the rest of the braves off. It maybe too late to make a statement then, but thats a fair predicition of that series. METS and Marlins to close out the year should be interesting as the Twins play the W. Sox for 3 games also. Those are the head to head matchups with the most on the line.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

MetMan your 2008 accomplishment has been met.

Great play on words, I have to say.

By Department of Lame Excuses

September 21, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

It’s the twenty extra pounds’ fault. It’s Braves’ fans fault for not cheering for Francoeur louded. It’s the pressure. It’s the eye. It’s the contract lense. It’s everyone who told him what to do and put to many different voices in his head. It’s the Braves’ front office for sending him down and ruining his confidence. It’s EVERYONES’ fault but Jeff Francoeur’s that Francoeur’s season has been so bad.

Metrosexual Man, the Braves and Mets are done for the year. Please take your insufferable posts elsewhere now.

By BA

September 21, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

I have a special message for the guy that has repeatedly posted anoymously to scold various Prado supporters, acting as if a person would be a fool to want Prado starting next year: you’re a gutless worm and hardly the expert you think you are. An “empty” .300?! I didn’t know there was such a thing. If you’ve got a 2B hitting .300 in the majors, you’re doing all right. Maybe Prado wouldn’t turn into Francouer jr. for months on end at the plate like Johnson did. And Prado’s defense would almost CERTAINLY be an upgrade over butterfingers Johnson out there.

And how in the H do YOU know what Prado’s trade value would be, more so than someone like N Nine, for example? You don’t.

You have a differing opinion. Doesn’t mean you’re particularly smart. Or that N Nine is dumb. Get over yourself, you gutless, nameless azzhat.

By Metropolitan Man

September 21, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

McFann

I wasn’t trying but thanks for pointing that out. I’ll recycle it for the next time the braves win a season series from the METS, so I may never ever get to use that line again in my lifetime. Enjoy.

The greatest things happen by accident, how else do you explain braves fans.

By Metropolitan Man

September 21, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

*Department of Lame Excuses *

the Braves and Mets are done for the year. Please take your insufferable posts elsewhere now.

So are you banning me form posting? Let me know so I can post some more.

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

An “empty” .300?! I didn’t know there was such a thing.

Oh, there certainly is. Take David Eckstein’s 2006 season: .291(close enough)/.350/.344 for a whopping .246 EqA. That is not good.

Or how about Juan Pierre in 2006 and 2007, when he hit .292 and .293 and EqA’ed a whopping .250 and .252?

Or how about last year (albeit in a very limited amount of PA) when Martin Prado hit .288 and slugged a Bondsian .339 for a .229 EqA? That is putrid.

These are not the kinds of numbers you want on your team. Period. Now, I don’t think Prado will be nearly this bad, but I don’t think he’ll be as good as Kelly, either.

Just saying there is a thing as an “empty” .300. It’s when you don’t get on base and slug around .370.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

MetMan—

Oh, you’re welcome. I did enjoy it. Know why…?

The greatest things happen by accident, how else do you explain braves fans.

Well, I don’t think we’re an “accident”, but thanks for saying we’re great.

The Mets fans near us at the game weren’t half (or even one quarter) as obnoxious as the Cubs fans we sat by earlier this year. Ha, I hardly even knew the Met people were there until Tavarez came in…

By Oh boo hoo

September 21, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

An “empty” .300?! I didn’t know there was such a thing.

Yes, there is. It’s when you hit .300, never walk and never hit for any power. If someone hits .300, but has a slugging percentage of under .400 and an OBP of around .320…that is an empty .300.

Maybe Prado wouldn’t turn into Francouer jr. for months on end at the plate like Johnson did. And Prado’s defense would almost CERTAINLY be an upgrade over butterfingers Johnson out there.

Blah, blah, blah Johnson. Where did I mention Kelly Johnson in my 5:40 post , you moronic windbag? I’m arguing against Prado, not for Johnson or Infante or anyone else. And for your information, now that you mention it, Johnson’s defense at 2B this season has been better than Prado’s defense at 2B. Opps.

Johnson, 2B: +4

Prado, 2B: -3

Prado’s defense is yet another reason to not start him.

And how in the H do YOU know what Prado’s trade value would be, more so than someone like N Nine, for example? You don’t.

One can reasonably guess it wouldn’t be high. If it was, he’d already been gone. I’d be willing to bet to date not one team has offered the Braves anything of any value for Prado. It’s a no-doubter even.

Get over yourself

Oh you’re REALLY one to talk. Your self-righteous screed is laughable.

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” -Mark Twain

By Supes

September 21, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

I know the crowd was really good for both games this weekend, and Joe and Boog kept on making comments about it, as well as the players but let’s remember that there were what…20% Mets fans there? At least on TV it looked that way. Either way, good to see a big crowd at the Ted last home game series of the season.

Obviously the Braves are the METS daddy…even when the Braves are bound to finsih in 4th place and Mets can still be in the playoffs.

I told a bunch of you METS fans here who on the blog who were ready to break out the brooms after game 1 of this series that your METS are being exposed right infront of your eyes, but you are refusing to see it. Well, I told you so! Now there, that felt great:)

The Brewers haven’t folded quite yet for the NL Wildcard, and I believe the Phillies will win the NL East. Therefore that leaves the Brewers and the Mets fighting it out for the WildCard. Both have sorry a** bullpens, both have good offensive lineups, esp. power numbers…but the edge goes to the Brewers for starting pitching. Mets starting pitching has been folding lately…Brewers still have C.C. Sabathia who can go 9 any day out there. Mets have…Santana (who is lucky he didn’t have to face the Braves again and go 0fer against them his first season as a Met) and after that…they have….yeah nobody that scares you. There you have it.

Mets aren’t going anywhere and I’m loving it b/c that will be 2 years in a row, where they will collapse at the end of the season and go home with their tails tucked between their legs.

Good luck playing the Cubs (best team in the NL) and the Marlins…your other nemesis in the last 2 series of the season to close out that dump of a stadium you call Shea.

Meanwhile…the Braves are playing good baseball to close out the season. That is encouraging to see, that they are not quitting and still playing hard.

James Parr has a long way to go before he’s in the consideration for a starting spot in 2009.

I’m not sure who should be traded, Prado or Kelly Johnson, but someone’s gotta go. Braves have an abundance of middle infielders and you don’t need them all. You need pitching and outfield help. So maybe a trade could be worked out, who knows. All I know is deal from a position of strength, and Braves are stacked with middle infielders, as well as CF prospects…when you count Jordan S, Josh A. and Gregor B. You don’t need all 3 of those guys for 2009, esp. if you bring a legit every day LF.

If Jeff F. could be traded to the Royals for starting pitching, Greinke or straight up for David DeJesus, I’d be in favor for either one of those scenarios. Yes he’s made a few strides the last month or so, but I’m still not sold that he’ll rebound with a good productive year in 2009.

What would be considered a good season from Jeff (if he is to remain a Brave)? I would like to see 20HR, 100 or more RBI, .275 ave and over .300 with RISP. Those are the key numbers to me. Oh, and please, please unjinx yourself with the bases loaded average there Jeff, anything has to be better than his abismal numbers in 08?

By Jake

September 21, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Sorry but Kelly isn’t as good as Kelly. It’s nice to think of what he might be if he did it on a consitent basis but the fact of the matter is that he hasn’t. Undoubtedly it looks like Kelly Johnson could have the most upside and he show’s you with flashes of brilliance every now and then but that’s just not enough. I like KJ but I find myself questioning his mental toughness a lot. You need that when you have a 162 game season. I mean being a .300 hitter with not much power has worked out for Edgar Renteria. He’s had a big hit or two in his career. I heard the announcers today compare Prado to Polanco but I won’t do that since I really don’t know much about his stats playing wise. In baseball you hear the word potential thrown around a lot and that’s what a lot of people like to go on. Me on the other hand I like to go with what I actually have seen on the field.

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I agree with you on FRAR—and really all fielding metrics in general. I’m not sold on any type of fielding metric in general, becuase there is way too much variation: scorer’s decision, where the fielder is playing, how hard the ball is hit, speed of runner, luck…the list goes on and on. I was just throwing it out there in case you haven’t heard of it or whatever.

I’ve never seen UZR, though, could you post a link for it?

I understand your logic for your calculations and the calculations seem good, very thoroughly done, at least from an amateur “sabermetrician’s” viewpoint. Gotta give props for all that hard work. I probably would have just used VORP and FRAR, but I’m lazy, so…

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Jake, Renteria isn’t really the direction I was going with the whole “.300” thing: His career OBP is .350 and his SLG is .405, for a .267 EqA: not great, but at least slightly above average. Keep in mind that when he was with Atlanta you saw seasons of .298 and .276 EqA’s, which are (especially the .298) really good for a middle infielder, so your eyes have seen a better Edgar than the rest of those who have been watching Edgar have.

I’m sorry, but generally most (good) statistical analysis shows that Kelly will be better than Martin. Myself, Braveheart, and others have all shown this, and I really, really, REALLY don’t want to open this debate again. But just be careful with what you see: most fans have very selective memories, and remember only what they want to remember. There is a scouting side and a statistical side to the game, and you can’t completely ignore one or the other. Most scouting reports aren’t going bonkers over Prado’s glove.

By mbatl

September 21, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure who should be traded, Prado or Kelly Johnson, but someone’s gotta go. Braves have an abundance of middle infielders and you don’t need them all. - Supes

I don’t see the abundance of middle infielders. We’ve got 2 good starters (KJ and Esco), and two very good backups (Prado and Infante). Prado can also play 3B, 1B and LF - a pretty valuable backup. If he can continue to hit well (even if he doesn’t slug .450), he’s well worth having, especially considering his salary.

Pretty sure Gotay will not be back; and Lillibridge has shown he’s not ready to hit big league pitching (or even AAA pitching, for that matter).

Now, I agree that someone may go, because we’ll probably have to trade someone of value to address other needs, but I sure don’t see any big logjam of talent in the middle infield.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Steve most fans have very selective memories, and remember only what they want to remember.

Ain’t it the truth.

By ncscoots

September 21, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

All I know is deal from a position of strength, and Braves are stacked with middle infielders

But who among them is major-league ready? Johnson and Prado. I wouldn’t call that “stacked”.

Jake (who logged some serious cred with me the other day) worries about Johnson’s “mental toughness”. He’s a second-year player, for goodness’ sakes, and all inexperienced players not named Pujols have some ups and downs. It’s how you learn the lessons and apply the gained knowledge that counts. I don’t know if that isn’t less a matter of “toughness”, and more one of “time”.

And, if there is any young kid on the Braves’ squad who has put some hide on his mental side, it’s Francoeur. I loved his after-game comments, besides it shows he learned an important lesson from his otherwise-putrid year: no matter how bad it gets, you survive to play another day; no matter how bad it gets, the worst ends, sometime. It helps that he’s having a good month, but, even so, I think his comments are a telling glimpse. There’s hope for the kid.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 21, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

The Braves’ last two games at Citizens Bank Park were killers,

Thankfully not literally…

By BA

September 21, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I got two folks here: Steve from Ohio, who posseses the ability to make clear and logical points, and some nameless wannabe comedian (who I suspect might be the insufferable goo guy) that is trying to make a comparison between Johnson, who’s had 133 games to show us how consistently shaky he is, and Prado, who’s played a grand total of 17 games at second this year? Do you have any hoaky Mark Twain quotes about sample size?

Steve, if Prado got 204 hundred hits, hit .292, stole 58 bases and drove in forty runs from the leadoff spot like Pierre in ‘06, that wouldn’t be good? I’d take it. At least as productive as a guy that hits 15 (or ELEVEN) homers and has two month long “slumps” every year.

Everybody stay tuned next for Nameless Nancy’s captivating excerpt from the third chapter of Huck Finn…

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I agree with mbatl’s take on the infield situation. Like I said to Coach the other day, the reason we can have Chipper sit 20% of our games (besides the fact that he’s an awesome hitter) is that we’ve got Prado and Infante to back him up: two guys who play well above replacement level, but maybe aren’t quite that awesome for an everyday starter. It’s really a perfect role for them: they don’t get overexposed, they get a decent amount of PT, and they put up more than acceptable numbers from that spot. Plus, they can play multiple positions, so they’re even more valuable.

I love Infante and Prado as super-utility guys, I’m ok with Prado as a starter (but would rather Kelly). I think the team is better with all three in the fold, personally. It’s nice to have some decent “Chipper insurance,” IMO.

By Jake

September 21, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I understand the whole stats thing and the scouting. But that’s not what i’m talking about. I’m talking about coming through when it counts the most. I’m not just talking about the stats but the so-called intangibles. I’ll give you a famous example. Arod has all the stats in the world and is arguably the greatest player in the game. Yet he disappears when it counts the most. He has the big contract and all the power numbers, yet it’s Derek Jeter that people want up there when the game really counts. Now Jeter is a great player in his own right but his stats don’t add up to what Arod does, but if you are to ask most people if they had to chose between the two of who they want up there with the game on the line most people would say Jeter.

That’s one example but there are countless others. One could be a guy we just saw tonight. Beltran is a guy who has great stats but if I had to pick a guy I want on my team to come up with the meaningful hit and to play with some grit it would definately be Jimmy Rollins. In the battle of the so called bold predictors there’s no contest to me. I have watched KJ play the last two years and while he has done ok I think the guy hurts himself. He’s a smart player but sometimes he thinks to much. I preference this by saying I could very well be wrong about KJ but I just don’t have that feeling about him. Some people rise to the occasion while other people shrink away. KJ just seems like he could be that way. I won’t say definatly because like I said before I like to go off what i’ve actually seen and I really don’t feel like i’ve seen enough of KJ to make that definate. I definately haven’t seen enough of Prado.

On a side note i’ve been a Renteria fan since his Florida days. I used to spend about half my summers in Miami and i went to quite a few games there.

By N8

September 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

The following caption under the photo of Gonzo on the AJC Braves homepage, pretty much sums it up, IMO:

“Braves pitcher Mike Gonzalez, the right-hander with the rocking motion, gave up a ninth inning two-run home run, but steadied himself and struck out the next two batters for his 13th save and a Braves’ win in the home finale over the Mets.”

Recently, DOB gave the home/road splits for Gonzo, and while he is still, more than likely NOT fully recovered from his TJ surgery, may I offer a tiny suggestion that might help straighten those numbers back out?

Hey Gonzo….Go back to pitching with your LEFT hand. It used to work pretty good for you.

Sorry. Couldn’t resist pointing out that the AJC has gone back to hiring blind, crack addicts to write their captions. Shame on them.

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

BA, if Prado posted exactly the same stats as Pierre in ‘06, then, statistically speaking (when normalized to the league average), this would probably not be that good. It’s at least marginally below average (league average EqA is always .260). I’d take those numbers with a better OBP and a little bit better SLG (at least .400). But a .330 OBP from the leadoff spot just ain’t cutting it.

Thank you for the compliment, btw. I hope that you didn’t find my previous post to be insulting, because it wasn’t meant to be.

Jake, take a look at this. I mean, take B-Mac for instance. His clutch numbers are pretty close to his regular numbers, if I’m not mistaken. So is he clutch, not clutch, or just good at hitting baseballs?

Oh, and I definitely agree on not seeing enough of Prado. I’d love to get another season’s worth of observation of him, so maybe we can make a better-educated decision about Martin vs. Kelly, no?

By brent a.

September 21, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

I mean, why even have the surgery on your left arm, if you’re gonna pitch with your right? Makes no sense.

That aside, it’s fun beating the Mets, especially with their obnoxious fans that feel the need to hang out on a Braves blog and pick on our sorry team.

By Jake

September 21, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to worry about. I never said he didn’t possess it I said I worried about. I have the same worries about Jojo and Charlie to name a few. Doesn’t mean that they can’t oversome it. Some people come to this league with endless confidence while others have theirs waver. There are going to be tough times for everyone and some players deal with it better than others. J.J. has had quite a few struggles of late but I haven’t seen him fall apart like Jojo. Evern in games where he has been hit hard in the first like Jojo and gives up a lot of runs. He grinds through it. Jojo on the other hand seemingly falls apart.

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Jake, ARod is case in point:

Career OPS: .968

Career RISP OPS: .956

I now pose the same question I did with McCann: Clutch, unclutch, or just good at hitting baseballs?

By Tomas

September 21, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

*Offseason Outlook: Atlanta Braves By Tim Dierkes [September 17, 2008 at 10:43pm CST]

Next up in our Offseason Outlook series, the Braves. Here’s how they set up for ‘09 using internal options only:

C - Brian McCann - $3.5MM C - Clint Sammons - $400K 1B - Casey Kotchman - $1.45MM+ 2B - Kelly Johnson - $430K+ SS - Yunel Escobar - $403K 3B - Chipper Jones - $11MM IF - Martin Prado -$400K IF/OF - Omar Infante - $1.4MM+ LF - Matt Diaz - $1.225MM+ CF - Josh Anderson - $400K RF - Jeff Francoeur - $460K+ OF - Gregor Blanco - $400K OF - Brandon Jones - $400K

SP - Jair Jurrjens - $400K SP - Jorge Campillo - $400K SP - Jo-Jo Reyes - $400K SP - Charlie Morton - $400K SP - James Parr - $400K

RP - Rafael Soriano - $6.1MM RP - Mike Gonzalez - $2.3625MM+ RP - Blaine Boyer - $400K RP - Jeff Bennett - $400K RP - Manny Acosta - $400K RP - Buddy Carlyle - $400K RP - Jeff Ridgway - $400K

Injured players: Tim Hudson - $13MM, Peter Moylan - $410K, Chuck James - $428K+

Non-tender candidates: Vladimir Nunez, Ruben Gotay

The result: about $48MM committed, plus arbitration raises to Kotchman, Johnson, Infante, Diaz, Francoeur, and Gonzalez. Those will add up, but the Braves should still come in under $60MM for the current players. The team had an opening day payroll of $102.4MM. The Braves are primed to do some serious spending.

The Braves are taking the right approach toward free agents/legends Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. They could help, but the team won’t count on them. I can see incentive-based deals for both.

Manager Bobby Cox expects to add two quality starters, whether via free agency or trade. I would target Derek Lowe due to his strong health record. He might cost $14-15MM per year. After that I’d ink a more affordable veteran like Paul Byrd, Freddy Garcia, or Randy Wolf. That bargain starter may come from Japan, with Koji Uehara and Kenshin Kawakami considered the top names.

That strategy would leave money for a quality left field bat - perhaps Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Raul Ibanez, Brian Giles, or Juan Rivera. It would also be wise to add a stopgap center fielder in the Mark Kotsay/Randy Winn mold.

On the trade side, the Braves may be willing to move Johnson and/or Francoeur. The trade market for starters may include Tim Redding, Andy Sonnanstine, Edwin Jackson, Ian Snell, Nate Robertson, Jarrod Washburn, Justin Duchscherer, and Boof Bonser. See any matches there? The Braves would be selling low on Francoeur. Would swapping him for Brian Bannister make sense?

Frank Wren has a challenging offseason ahead of him; he’ll attempt to revamp the rotation and outfield.*

I hope this guy is wrong on the Braves giving Lowe 14-15 million per season. Lowe will be 36 next season, and his velocity is dropping year by year, and he has good numbers but in the worst hitting division in the majors, he is a good pick but for 12 million max. And I hope they sign a power pitcher like Aj Burnett that will require a deal in the 15-18 million dollar range. And I hope Wren also brings the Jappanese guy to provide more depth in the rotation.

Also I hope Dierkes is way out of line when he says the Braves want to trade Kelly Johnson, and Frenchy. Especially now that there value has dropped and wouldn’t get what they’re worth.

I can live with the current offence, and having faith that Frenchy, and Kelly will be the players they’re capable of being, pitching is the biggest concern and money should be targeted to fixing that.

By Jake

September 21, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Since you seem like the king of stats and i’m clearly not, I would ask you to go further. There were people here earlier in the year who liked to say that while Teixeira is a great player, he pads most of his stats when the game doesn’t count. When it’s a blowout either way he would hit a meaningless homerun or come through with a hit with RISP there. I’m not sure if I agree with that but I would ask you if you could give me Arod’s stat’s with RISP with the game on the line. Like if he was up there to tie the game or the runner represented the go ahead run.

I’m not here to say who’s better. I just like to see it play out on the field. I too would like to see more of Prado so we could compare properly. I just can’t be as bold as some people to predict how good or bad a player will be with having only seen them in limited time.

By the way Mac is a good player. Would make the same argument that haven’t seen enough of him but being a biased braves fan I would say he’s a great hitter who’s good in the clutch.

By Brian

September 21, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

I hope FW doesn’t over value that bullpen for next year. What’s to expect from Moylan, Soriano, etc. when they’re healthy and when they can come out and shut hitters down are huge questions! You can have a very good rotation but alot of the time they’re only as good as the guy coming in after them. I’m sure he knows this and will have a some kinda backup plan. We better hope!

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Since you seem like the king of stats and i’m clearly not.

Oh, no I’m not the “king of stats,” nor do I consider myself to be. I just have a science background, so I like to search for empirical evidence wherever I can find it. And I’m certainly not trying to be condescending to you in any way, as I certainly respect your point of view. I’m just saying that, as far as anyone can tell or prove, most players are close to their career numbers in clutch situations. I did it for ARod above, I’ll do it for Teixeira now:

Tex, career OPS: .916

RISP OPS, career: 1.067

Numbers from baseball-reference.

By BA

September 21, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

I’d trade Francouer for Bannister AND DeJesus, maybe. His value might be down, but as a potential 20/100 hitter I think you’d want more than Bannister.

Anybody think they’ll bring Jorge Julio back? I know, the walks, the walks. But Soriano/Gonzalez/Julio/Acosta- that’s the making of a nasty pen. Add in Ohman and Moylan, well- a lot different than ‘08.

The good news is, we won’t need most of those pitchers for about eighteen games next year.

That’s because we could march Avery out of retirement and the Mutts would still ish themselves! The choking dog Mutts- no matter how bad a year, there are some things that never change. The Mutts loser fans will bark for weeks on end, and when, true to form, their team wets the bed, they will dissapear faster than DOB’s stogie.

By mbatl

September 21, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Steve, Francoeur has always been sort of an exception to that general rule - for his career (until ‘08), he’s been much, much better in RISP or Late/Close situations. Along with most everything else, that has tanked this year.

It led me to believe - for a while - that there was something to the idea that some hitters are “clutch.” But I really don’t think so any more… agree with you: good hitters are good hitters. A guy may have one or two great “clutch” years, but probably followed by a year or two of evening out.

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

For the record, Jeter’s OPS with RISP is .839. His career OPS is .846. Knowing this, and knowing that A-Rod has a career .956 OPS w/ RISP, who would you rather have up with RISP, Jeter or ARod?

In fact, you don’t even need those numbers to answer the question, you just need to ask yourself “who is the better hitter?” That is the guy I want up.

By mets fan in atlanta

September 21, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Apparently some of you missed the gist of my post earlier. The Braves (and their fans) only cared about one team this season—the Mets. From Day 1, all they crowed about was the record against the Mets. Bobby Cox manages like its a playoff game against the Mets, but against everyone else, its status quo. Even the fans come out like its a playoff series when the Mets are in town, as evidence by season-high crowds at the end of the season, just because mets are here.

When are they going to realize they have to play against other teams too? One of the posters above said it best, the braves won this series and the season series against the Mets, their 2008 goals have been reached. Sadly (for the Braves) i think that is very true. While the mets had aspirations of pennants and playoffs, the Braves (and their fans) only cared about beating the Mets.

This is one of the things i have noticed after attending many games this spring and summer (remember i had season tickets). There is a marked difference in how the team played and prepared against the mets than any other team that came to town. Maybe its the rivalry, i’ll hand it to you, you beat us head-to-head, but i’d trade that any day to be in the playoffs while the other teams are sitting at home.

By Jake

September 21, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t trying to be smart but rather honest. I’m not the best when it comes to stats. Just wanted to know if there was a difference in Arods number’s when it came to how he hit with RISP with the go ahead or tying run on base in comparison to his overall numbers with RISP. Does he hit better, worse, or about the same?

By Steve from OH

September 21, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Jake, ARod’s “late and close” OPS is .905. His OPS in a tie game is ,971. I did his career and RISP OPS above. That’s about the best I can give you right now.

By Mike

September 21, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

The caption under Mike Gonzalez on the Braves page calls him a ” right hander.” Are they serious with that?

By keylargo

September 21, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Maybe its the rivalry, i’ll hand it to you, you beat us head-to-head, but i’d trade that any day to be in the playoffs while the other teams are sitting at home. mets fan in atlanta

You mean like you did while we won 14 in a row?

By Jake

September 21, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

mets fan in atlanta

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I go to about 5 games a year. I went to a Mets game earlier this year during the four game sweep and I went to a game just last week when we played the Rockies. I’m sorry but a win is a win to most braves fans. Bobby didn’t manage any differently this series than he did with the Phillies. They just executed better this time around. Just face it, win or lose, some people play better against some teams than they do against others. I see that you’re simply just grazing the surface when it comes to the Braves. Why don’t you take into account the numerous injuries that the braves have suffered this year. There were some series like the ones against the Cubs and the Cards where we just simply had too many injuries to overcome. Then there were some where it seemed liked the other teams could find every hole or bloop a hit, then we would scorch a ball right at someone or an average defensive player would all of a sudden become a gold glover. The one run record is indicative of alot but it is also proof of some very bad luck. It was truly a game of inches for the braves this year. There was a game against the Nationals that just told the story of our season. KJ hits what should be a walk off double that bounces over the wall for a ground rule double. Then Mac hits a ball up the middle that if he was any other player he would have legged out for a hit but because he is a catcher he got beat by a step. Then a guy with one homerun all year manages to hit another. A ball that looks like it may go foul hits the line and becomes a double and a bloop hit falls right in front of Infante. Don’t make the Mets more important than what they are. A win is a win. I personally could care less about that bunch of underachievers. They have a few bright spots but as a whole they disappoint.

By BA

September 21, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Hey, everybody- mutts fan in atlanta thinks the MUTTS will be in the playoffs! HA! You think those dainty bedwetters can hold a 1 1/2 game lead in the wild card? HA!

Maybe the Mutts SHOULD be more concerned with their head-to-head with Atlanta, because it’s always a big part of their annual collapse!

Guess NY will just keep firing managers until they figure out that Casey Stengel couldn’t even bring out the guts from that skittish girl Beltran! Not even Whitey Herzog could pull that punk Reyes’ head out of his azz! Beat the Mutts…Beat the Mutts…

By BravesFanInRockies

September 21, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

mbatl,

That’s what I think about Francouer too. After hitting way above expectations w/RISP, he’s evened out.

IMO, unless he’s traded this winter, 2009 will be his last in an Atlanta uniform. If he bounces back to 2007 level performance or better next season, the Braves will sell high. If 2009 is no better than 2008 for him offensively, he’s done as a major league regular anyway.

By Braveheart

September 21, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

When are they going to realize they have to play against other teams too? One of the posters above said it best, the braves won this series and the season series against the Mets, their 2008 goals have been reached. Sadly (for the Braves) i think that is very true. While the mets had aspirations of pennants and playoffs, the Braves (and their fans) only cared about beating the Mets.

Huh? Talk about one self-absorbed fan base. These Mets fans are un-friggin-real. Yeah, it’s all about you guys. That’s all we think about. That’s all the Braves think about. Seriously, this is like the most make believe rivalry there has ever been. The Braves won the division the first 11 years they shared the division. The Mets weren’t in the same division before that

If you guys didn’t come around here all the time for who knows what freaking reason, no one on this blog would really care about the Mets or their fans. It’s all in your head that the Braves care only about beating the Mets.

Seriously, Mets fans are like that stalker dude we all know … he obsesses on a girl for years …. swears that she really wants him … swears that she’s teasing and torturing him because she’s in denial about how much she wants him … he goes on and on and on about her … ‘til the one day he realizes that she has never tortured him … she just never cared enough to … he was torturing himself because of the two, he was the only who ever cared

look in the mirror mets fans and ask yourselves … do the braves torture you? …. or do you just torture yourselves because you’re the only ones who care about this faux rivalry?

By Mitchell

September 21, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

I hold tightly and firm on my bitterness and resentment of the New York Yankees.

I’d have to go back many years before I could show any reverence for that franchise. You gotta love Lou Gherig. Pretty incredible human being he was.

That’s about it. I mostly enjoy ruminating over the many Yankee failures in their long history. In no particular order. Okay wait, make that reverse chronological order.

2004 ALCS, how many more games did they have to win?

2003 World Series, okay so the Marlins have two championships to our one but they beat the Yankees so I’ll take it.

2001 World Series… if, as my impartial Texas Ranger friend likes to say, the Yankees deserved to win after 9/11, then wouldn’t the Braves deserve to have won in ‘96 after the Olympic Park bombing? I’d say so, not to trivialize it or anything. My brother was down there that night and I didn’t know if he was alive or dead for about an hour.

So no, they didn’t deserve to win it. They lost to a better team in the Diamondbacks.

‘95 NLDS, the Seattle Mariners version of Sid’s slide.

‘81 World Series, the Dodgers exact their revenge.

‘76 World Series, the overrated Big Red Machine mops the floor with the Bronx Bombers in 4.

‘60 World Series, thank you Bill Mazeroski.

‘57 World Series, Lew Burdette… that’s my dogg. RIP Lew.

‘55 World Series, the good guys finally won.

That’s about it really. Of course there’s the rest of this decade which has been pretty awesome.

The Yankees have embarrassed themselves more in the last 8 years (in October) than George Bush.

Somebody’s a party pooper. Me. So what? Tear that place down.

Only the Yankees could build a dynasty on a fan’s interferrence.

GO BRAVES

By Mark Richt

September 22, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Blackout for Alabama guys

By Brian

September 22, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Braveheart is right on with you Muts fans! You people are your own worst enemy in so many ways and even your team has the same self destructive attitude! It would be the same if Cubs fans or Phillies fans came on here. SO SHUT IT!!!

By Mitchell

September 22, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

I’m writing my congressman this very moment. There has to be a law against playing “New York, New York” twice in the same half hour period. Enough.

But the night’s big win goes to Mr. Andrew Eugene Pettitte. Mr. Mitchell Report himself.

You’ve failed your God, Andy Pettitte. You worhtless Bible-beating steroid cheater.

You are a cheater Andy. God doesn’t like cheaters. You knew that and yet you did it anyway.

I wonder how long it will take SportsCenter to realize that the Yankees didn’t actually just win the World Series. Just another meaningless game in a season of unreasonably high expectations.

This is what those people do. They have the Yankee Network. They lose four in a row to the Red Sox in ‘04 in the most embarrassing choke-job in baseball history, then they go home and watch Don Larson’s perfect game and pretend nothing ever happened.

And now, after that calvacade of resentment could I make a hypocrtical plea for civility with our Mets friends.

We want them here, don’t we? As long as the Braves win that is. We don’t need to talk trash. Pretty soon they’re going to realize that they’d be better off not taking that bullpen to the playoffs.

Good luck Mets. You will absolutely need it. No offense.

By Mitchell

September 22, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

For the record, my brother did not die in the Olympic Park bombing.

I though I’d clear that up in case anybody was wondering. But it was scary as many people could probably attest.

And again, if the Yankees deserved to win in ‘01 then we deserved to win in ‘96.

This isn’t healthy.

Good night.

Go Braves.

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 22, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

I walked away from Turner Field many times this year mad or confused over the Braves but was fortunate to witness Smoltz get strikeout 3000 and Chipper hit career homer 400.

Im not liking another fall without Braves baseball but change is coming and we will be back. May not be next year but its coming.

SMOTLZ FOR MANAGER IN 2010!!!!

By N Nine

September 22, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

he obsesses on a girl for years …. swears that she really wants him … bravesheart

im picturing Mitchell and Katy Temple…Yikes!

That attitude has everything to do with New Yorkers. They feel they are always the best with a c** attitude. It won’t change. Understand that for many many years the saw the Atlanta Braves ahead in standings and it has hunted them. Mets will always struggle at da Ted.

By N Nine

September 22, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Braves but was fortunate to witness Smoltz get strikeout 3000 and Chipper hit career homer 400

wow it feels like that was ages ago! With all those injuries and loses, this season felt longer than others. Not many times we are looking at the Draft picks standings! This should be a eventful offseason.

By N Nine

September 22, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

The Braves were 8-1 against New York this year at Turner Field; Philadelphia went 9-0 at the ballpark.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 22, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

It was nice to watch the Yankees win the last one. But my heart is aching knowing the Cathedral that is Yankee Stadium has seen it’s last baseball game.

Wrigley Field and Fenway Park now stand together as the last bastion’s of an era that is all but lost to this generation. Baseball has always stood the test of time and it always shall. But something is slipping away.

The bygone era of hickory bats, spitballs and metal cleats won’t be missed by those who never had the pleasure of experiencing the unique past of the game.

Todays equipment may be better, the players more athletic. The modern baseball parks of today have improved sight lines, comfier seating, better parking and the food is as good as ever.

But I can’t escape the feeling that something has been lost. It probably started when the Dodgers went west and Brooklyn mourns to this day. At least the Bronx Bombers will have a new shining edifice right across the street and so will the Mets.

Our Braves have Turner Field, but why not Aaron Field House? The latter seems so much more appropriate.

Maybe thats it.

Should we fail to honor the past, remembering those who blazed the path that is now smoothed over by shiny new parks with retractable roofs, water fountains and picnic tables, the present golden age of baseball will somehow be less celebrated by future generations compared to the reverence we now hold for this wonderful game called baseball.

By Moby Grape

September 22, 2008 5:36 AM | Link to this

Steve, Francoeur has always been sort of an exception to that general rule - for his career (until ‘08), he’s been much, much better in RISP or Late/Close situations. Along with most everything else, that has tanked this yearmbatl

small sample size. in almost all cases, the larger the sample size of clutch stats becomes, the closer it becomes to regular stats. Jeff performed above his average the first two seasons, and drifted back closer to his mean by performing below his average this season. Many many stats guys do not believe at all in “clutch” hitters. Most of those who do think it possible are pretty much convinced that there is not a huge difference over a career.

By Jeff R

September 22, 2008 5:57 AM | Link to this

Prado’s glove is better than Johnson’s, and up-the-middle defense is the second most important consideration the Braves must make (right behind pitching). Yes, a power bat isn’t far behind.

Johnson is a tradeable commodity - from what’s available on the major league roster. If Wren is going to do what obviously needs to be done - improve the rotation - he’s going to explore trades as well as the free agent market. He may have to draw on both to rebuild the starting pitching.

Prado now has value as well in the market, but I think management wants a better glove at 2B along with offensive capability. I’d bet that Wren moves Johnson before he moves Prado.

The ‘09 starting day lineup may look significantly different from the start or the end of this season’s. Except for four players - McCann, Jones, Escobar and Jurrjens - all bets are off.

By nolie

September 22, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

Early 2009 Draft Top 25 Prospects-Baseball America

Ranking the top high school and college prospects

By Matt Blood, Aaron Fitt, John Manuel and Jim Callis September 19, 2008

September marks the end of the summer scouting circuit, as high schools and colleges begin classes. Scouts used the three months in between the draft and the starting of school as an opportunity to get a jump on evaluating the talent in the 2009 class. BA was out on the road as well, and after covering college summer leagues, Team USA and the high school showcase circuit, we have compiled top 25 lists for both college and high school prospects eligible for next year’s draft.

The consensus No.1 overall prospect for 2009 comes from the college crop in righthander Stephen Strasburg. He dominated international hitters with an upper-90s fastball while competing for Team USA’s national and Olympic teams this summer. Strasburg has seemingly elevated his draft stock far and above the rest of the class in a way similar to David Price in the summer before the 2007 draft.

The top of the prep rankings is dominated by a duo of lefthanders and a do-it-all outfielder. Tyler Matzek and Matt Purke both complement their 91-94 fastballs with advanced breaking balls. Matzek edges Purke with cleaner mechanics and a more consistent delivery. Donovan Tate is a five-tool athlete and possesses the best set of baseball skills of any position player in this draft class.

Top 25 High School Prospects Rk. Player Pos. High School

  1. Tyler Matzek lhp Capistrano Valley HS, Mission Viejo, Calif.

2. Donovan Tate cf Cartersville (Ga.) HS

  1. Matt Purke lhp Klein HS, Spring, Texas

  2. Jacob Turner rhp Westminster Christian Academy, St. Charles, Mo.

  3. Mychal Givens rhp/ss Plant HS, Tampa

6. Zack Wheeler rhp East Paulding HS, Dallas, Ga.

  1. Ian Krol lhp Nequa Valley HS, Naperville, Ill.

8. Luke Bailey c Troup HS, Cartersville, Ga.

  1. Brian Goodwin cf Rocky Mount (N.C.) HS

  2. LeVon Washington cf/2b Buchholz HS, Gainesville, Fla.

  3. Bobby Borchering 1b/3b Bishop Verot HS, Alva, Fla.

  4. Max Stassi c Yuba City (Calif.) HS

  5. Jiovanni Mier ss Bonita HS, Pomona, Calif.

  6. Chad James lhp Yukon (Okla.) HS

  7. Deven Marrero ss American Heritage HS, Davie, Fla.

  8. Matt Davidson 1b/3b Yucaipa (Calif.) HS

  9. Austin Maddox c Eagle’s View Academy, Jacksonville, Fla.

  10. Jacob Marisnick of Riverside (Calif.) Poly HS

  11. Shelby Miller rhp Brownwood (Texas) HS

  12. Wil Myers c/3b Wesleyan Christian Academy, Thomasville, N.C.

  13. Matt Hobgood rhp Norco (Calif.) HS

  14. Slade Heathcott lhp/of Texas HS, Texarkana, Texas

  15. Chad Thompson rhp El Toro HS, Trabuco Canyon, Calif.

  16. Keyvius Sampson rhp Ocala (Fla.) Forest HS

  17. Jonathan Walsh c Coppell (Texas) HS

Top 25 College Prospects Rk. Player Pos. Yr. School

  1. Stephen Strasburg rhp Jr. San Diego State

  2. Alex White rhp Jr. North Carolina

  3. Grant Green ss Jr. Southern California

  4. Dustin Ackley 1b/of Jr. North Carolina

  5. Mike Minor lhp Jr. Vanderbilt

  6. Kendal Volz rhp Jr. Baylor

  7. Kyle Gibson rhp Jr. Missouri

  8. Andrew Oliver lhp Jr. Oklahoma State

  9. Kentrail Davis of So. Tennessee

  10. Blake Smith of/rhp Jr. California

  11. Mike Leake rhp Jr. Arizona State

  12. Jason Stoffel rhp Jr. Arizona

  13. Jared Mitchell of Jr. Louisiana State

  14. Ryan Jackson ss Jr. Miami

  15. Ben Tootle rhp Jr. Jacksonville State

  16. D.J. LeMahieu ss So. Louisiana State

  17. A.J. Pollock of/2b Jr. Notre Dame

  18. Brett Jackson of Jr. California

  19. Matt den Dekker of Jr. Florida

  20. Tyler Lyons lhp Jr. Oklahoma State

  21. Jeff Inman rhp Jr. Stanford

  22. Brad Stillings rhp Jr. Kent State

  23. Shawn Tolleson rhp R-So. Baylor

  24. Robbie Shields ss/2b Jr. Florida Southern

  25. Ben Paulsen 1b Jr. Clemson

Top 25 charts compiled by Matt Blood, Jim Callis, Aaron Fitt and John Manuel in consultation with major league scouts, college coaches and other talent evaluators

By GermanBravesFan

September 22, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

Wow… I just now had a chance to read the blog. Nice to hear that Francoeur got his confidence back and that it only took him 155 games!!

By Random

September 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Since ‘rroll Rog’ can’t bring herself to do it, it’s up to us to cap off her charming and informative blog with a song.

I’ll take this one, fellas.

Ronnie Milsap

“Misery Loves Company”

I’ve just left my home, friends, where I couldn’t sleep

For missin’ a woman that I couldn’t keep.

She just walked out and left me for somebody else

Now her memory

Keeps hauntin’ me

When I’m by myself

.

So break out the bottle, bring on the crowd.

Tell funny stories, turn the jukebox up loud.

Come on, sit at my table where the drinks’re on me —

*Yes, gather round me,

*’Cause misery

Loves company.

.

Now, I’m not the first one who’s lost everything

To a false hearted woman with a false hearted dream.

But this is the first time I’ve suffered myself —

Help me get over this love,

I’ll handle the next love

All by myself.

.

So break out the bottle, bring on the crowd.

Tell funny stories, turn the jukebox up loud.

Come on, sit at my table where the drinks’re on me —

*Yes, gather round me,

*’Cause misery

Loves company.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

The bygone era of hickory bats, spitballs and metal cleats won’t be missed by those who never had the pleasure of experiencing the unique past of the game.

Hickory bats aren’t used any more because they are too heavy.

The spitball was outlawed in 1920 except for existing spitballers who were allowed to throw the pitch until they retired. The last legal spitball was thrown in 1934.

And major leaguers still use metal cleats.

I would guess there aren’t many if any who “had the pleasure of experiencing the unique past of the game” if heavy hickory bats and spitballs are your primary definition of past greatness.

By DAP

September 22, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

coach you just sound old. old people tend to think the past is always better than right now. the game is still great, and young fans like me will look back in 50 years and think about things that are happening now, as great baseball history. the game lives on, man. the past was great, but so is the present.

By raindawg722

September 22, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Chipper’s shoulder worries me. My dad used to pitch in college. He said that on the first day of practice one year he let loose while he was playing catch and the next day he woke up and couldn’t raise his arm about his shoulder. That was it for his pitching career. Granted, medicine has come a long way since then but that was the first thing I thought of when I read that Chipper said he couldn’t raise his arm up to a certain point.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

DAP, I think it’s human nature to want to hold on to the past. Maybe it’s because we aren’t as young and vibrant and strong as we once were and we want to hold on to the past thinking everything was better then. In actuality, although we are breaking down, many things around us have gotten better. That scares us to death because the things that validate our youth become outdated.

By Efrim

September 22, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand this Francoeur to the Royals talk. Frenchy has a .314 career OBP. The last thing the Royals need is a corner outfielder who lacks the plate discipline to be even average at that position. I know he is young, but Francoeur will never be a guy who gives you a solid OBP.

By Braveheart

September 22, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Here’s the All The Way song Eddie Vedder did for the Cubs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqHTScDBsDU

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

DAP, and what a lot of people like Coach don’t realize is that there were people back in the spitball, hickory bat days that railed against modernity like he is now.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Efrim, who knows if the Royals properly value on-base ability? I mean they are 12th in the league. They may just be looking at Francoeur’s “tools.”

By Lew

September 22, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

JeffR-Dude, I’m betting that 2B is not even on the radar for the Braves’ brass this winter, unless, for some reason, KJ gets traded for pitching or a power hitting outfielder. Just why, when those two areas are of ultimate importance, do you think we should concern ourselves with a position that is manned by two good hitting, decent fielding (decent-not great) fielders? I promise that filling our more glaring needs will supersede any such infield maneuvering. I’d be willing to bet that, with the exception of several Denizens, it is a non issue.

Braveheart-got to agree with you on Mets’ fans. When we were in the midst of 14 straight divisions, the Mets were so far below our radar as to be almost invisible. Now that we have had a few less successful seasons, I doubt greatly that anyone would pay them any attention if their fans were gone from OUR blog.

A couple weeks ago, MetroDude came here yelling about how we never commented on the Mets when they won, only when they lost. I pointed out to him then that no one had mentioned the Mets at all-that we were much more concerned with the fixes to our own club. Until he (and Snipper and MetsFan In Atl) came back to remind us of their team, no one even knew they were gone, much less missed them.

The Mets and their fans are legends in their own minds. I’ve never seen so many chest thumpings and crotch grabbings over so little. It really takes a large dose of unmitigated gall to come here and denigrate a team with the Braves’ track record of success when you yourself haven’t won anything at all. Three years we were sub par and what do the Mets have to show for it? One playoff series win and a monumental collapse (with another following closely on its’ heels) is hardly worth crowing over. And to think the Braves have been roundly criticized for only winning one World Series. Time for the Mets fans to realize we actually were IN the World Series several times in the last fifteeen years. The Mets? No appearances at all. Wow. How overwhelmed by the Mets or their clueless fans should we be? Seems to me that the Mets fans are obsessed with beating the Braves-NOT the other way around.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 22, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Oh boy…The Fillies again…I’d just like to announce that “it’s on like Donkey Kong!”

‘Member last year when Bobby sat most of his “good” players in the final series of the year (in Houston, no less)? No offense, but I didn’t like that. (Please don’t do that this year, Bobby!)

That being said, uh…where was I going with this…? BLOGGER’S BLOCK! Dangit…

By Goodoleboy58

September 22, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I think Ned Yost can really help McCann’s numbers behind the plate. Being a former catcher and seeing how Jason Kendall improved in the offseason throwing out McCann like numbers behind the plate in prior years and then leading the league this year after 12 years behind the plate already is impressive. Kendall is also in his last year of his contract with an option for ‘09. Just throwing all this out here to chew on.

By Random

September 22, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Jake: “I’m talking about coming through when it counts the most. I’m not just talking about the stats but the so-called intangibles. I’ll give you a famous example. Arod has all the stats in the world and is arguably the greatest player in the game. Yet he disappears when it counts the most. He has the big contract and all the power numbers, yet it’s Derek Jeter that people want up there when the game really counts. Now Jeter is a great player in his own right but his stats don’t add up to what Arod does, but if you are to ask most people if they had to chose between the two of who they want up there with the game on the line most people would say Jeter.”

That’s because most people — including you, including me — are stupid when it comes to evaluating players’ performances subjectively.

That’s why statistical records of players’ performances are so valuable — they remove subjectivity and compensate for selective memory.

Like when we remember A-Rod’s most recent dismal post-season performances —

2007 ALDS: .267/.353/.467

2006 ALDS: .071/.133/.071

2005 ALDS: .133/.435/.200

— but forget some of his earlier post-season heroics:

2004 ALDS: .421/.476/.737

2004 ALCS: .258/.378/.516

2000 ALCS: .409/.480/.773

Just as we forget some of Jeter’s post-season dogshows:

2007 ALDS: .176/.176/.176

2004 ALCS: .200/.333/.233

2003 ALCS: .233/.281/.400

2001 ALCS: .118/.200/.118

2001 WS: .148/.179/.259

1998 ALCS: .200/.259/.320

1996 WS: .250/.400/.250

I’ve got to agree with Steve from OH (and by extension Shaun) when he says “For the record, Jeter’s OPS with RISP is .839. His career OPS is .846. Knowing this, and knowing that A-Rod has a career .956 OPS w/ RISP [and overall career .968], who would you rather have up with RISP, Jeter or ARod? … In fact, you don’t even need those numbers to answer the question, you just need to ask yourself “who is the better hitter?” That is the guy I want up.”

Bottom-line: A-Rod doesn’t always “disappear” at crunch time, and Jeter doesn’t always come through.

Their up and down post-season performances are due to small sample sizes (~15-30 ABs each series). You gotta go with their overall performances/stats.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 22, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

OK, well I’ll give out some stats, then…just for fun, I guess…

McCann’s next hit will give him a new career high…his next double will give him a new career high…his next start will tie his career high…his next homer (if he hits one) will tie his career high…

Assuming he plays, I don’t know…five of these last six games, is it too much to ask for 2 more doubles, 2 more homers, and at least 4 more RBI?

Maybe it is…

Goodoleboy58—

You got me chewin’…

By Steve from OH

September 22, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Pirates, Alvarez agree on deal, according to ESPN and Baseball Prospectus. So in exchange for a few more bucks, Boras agrees to drop the grievance.

“Regrettably, we are not surprised that Mr. Boras would attempt to raise a meritless legal claim in an effort to compel us to renegotiate Pedro’s contract to one more of his liking,” Pirates president Frank Coonelly said in a statement on Aug. 27, referring to agent Scott Boras. “We are, however, disappointed that Pedro would allow his agent to pursue this claim on his behalf.”

Boras is one sly dog. It was probably right to file the grievance if the Pirates did go over the signing window, but the end result shows that Boras didn’t do it for idealistic reasons. He just wanted more cash. But he’s good at what he does, no doubt.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Random, shame on you for bringing up evidence instead of relying on memories of A-Rod failing and Jeter coming through and what certain members of the media say about each player without backing it up with the facts.

By Braveheart

September 22, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Gehrig had his streak broken and died. The Babe, Joe D., the Scooter and the Mick all retired and eventually died. Munson was killed. Matttingly and Bernie were forced to retire. Jeter will eventually retire and die too. Just like the legends and the rest of us, stadiums don’t live forever. Divorcing the old broad and courting the new young sweet thang has been around baseball from day one as well.

By MGL

September 22, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

From a Mets blog this morning —-

“On a side note, how obnoxious is Mike Gonzalez… holy crap I just want to punch him in the face… swaying back and forth like an idiot does not make you better, it makes you annoying… to everyone, including your teammates”

Not annoying to me!!

By DAP

September 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

how about jorge cantu this year? picked up off the scrap heap…earned a job in spring training, and now has 29 homers, 93 RBIs and is batting about .280. good for him. he also has 21 errors…but the dude can hit!

im usre he will be back with the marlins next year…but if he isnt…wonder if he can play left field?

By DAP

September 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

also, joey votto making a strong showing for rookie of the year, now with 21 homers and 77 RBIs. hes gonna be a good one, i think.

By 22oz

September 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

McFann, expect Bobby to play the series against the Phillies like it matters, because it does to the Phillies, and Bobby always respects the integrity of the game(Corky Miller on the roster notwithstanding). The only reason he sat the regulars against the Astros last year was because both clubs were out of it, and the series literally meant nothing. Expect more of that when we play the Astros this weekend, but not against the Phillies.

By Steve from OH

September 22, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Somebody mentioned Brad Penny a few days ago…if his option is declined, and if he is proven healthy, and can be had for a reasonable sum, why not make a run at him? Lots of “ifs” there, but it’s a thought. Would be better than Garland, anyway.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

DAP, the problem is Cantu makes outs too often to be all that productive unless he’s a secondbaseman/backup. His OBP is .328 this season and .317 for his career. He is basically Jeff Francoeur with a little bit more power.

His OPS would rank 14th in the majors among 20 LF qualifiers if we were to insert him in to that group.

And his power isn’t as impressive as it seems by looking at his homer and RBI totals. His .487 slugging would rank 11th among LF right with Luke Scott.

Cantu is a valuable player, very valuable when you consider his versatility and price tag. But I don’t know about him as an everyday player.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 22, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

22oz—

I was more referring to the series against the Astros in my post…but I wasn’t too specific, was I? Sorry about that.

But I really didn’t like not seeing the regulars play the final game of the season…and, huh, the Braves got shutout, and Chipper lost the Batting Title.

(It also stunk because McCann went 0-4 in the last game in Filly, and then he didn’t play another game…so the 0 fer was the last thing I saw in that regard.)

But I like to see them win the last game of the season. So if Bobby has to rest guys (who are about to get some serious time off anyway), that’s fine, I guess…But could he at least play them on Sunday?

By DAP

September 22, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

steve from OH penny’s option is for $8.75mil….i really think that if he is worth having, the dodgers will keep him. thats alot of money if the guy is completly ineffective, but the dodgers are not cash strapped, so if they think theres a chance he can help, i think they will keep him for that much.

not a bad pitcher, but i think if his option is declined, it will be because he isnt healthy.

By Braveheart

September 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Somebody mentioned Brad Penny a few days ago…if his option is declined, and if he is proven healthy, and can be had for a reasonable sum, why not make a run at him? Lots of “ifs” there, but it’s a thought. Would be better than Garland, anyway.

It could be interesting to see if the Braves sign maybe one or two extra free agents for Doyle Alexander like reasons. You do it thinking you might get lightning in a bottle and contend with them …… but more likely you sign the pitchers as trade bait used to get more young talent next July. That way you’re not trading away your own farmhands and major league ready talent to get young arms this offseason when the whole world knows you are dealing from a position of weakness .

So that’s one reason I could see guys like Garland and others signed ….. not because you really want them but because someone will need an arm next July and you’ll have one you don’t really want long term to give them in exchange for something better and younger

By Steve from OH

September 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

DAP, I didn’t realize Penny’s option was that cheap.

By Braveheart

September 22, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Cantu would be about a 30 run offensive upgrade in left over what the Braves got this year… if he hit like that again next year ….. not saying I really want him … but guys like that aren’t that bad of an idea …. not getting average offense out of right and left cost the braves 70 runs this year ….. let’s just try to get those slots back to at least average before we start worrying about making them extraordinary. If Frenchy had seasons like Cantu had this season for the rest of his career, I’d be content.

By DAP

September 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

shaun good point about cantu’s numbers not being as impressive if he were an outfielder.

another outside the box LF idea who is also a marlin is dan uggla. relax, guys, im just thinking here. i know he has never played the outfield, but he might be able to play out in left…who knows? his stats are better than cantu’s, and this blgger guesses uggla will make $5mil in his first year of arbitration….could it be a trade option? again, we would have to know he could play left field… but we do know that kelly can play left if he has to (though id hate to see him get moved again)

by the way, scott olsen is on the block as well…a guy who we all know can be very good sometimes…but he struggles with control. hes just 24 years old.

By DAP

September 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

steve in OH this is MLB trade rumors free agent list

its a pretty long list of free agents at every position. penny’s option is $8.75mil with a $2mil buyout, so its really only a $6.75 mil benifit if they dont bring him back. so if they dont…there’s probably a good reason to stay away from him.

By David O'Brien

September 22, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

DAP, Olsen has struggled with control on AND off the field, that’s the problem. But you’re right, when he’s on, when he’s pitching well, he’s a very good pitcher….

No way Dodgers decline that option unless the MRIs on his arm are terrible, in which case you wouldn’t want Penny anyway….

Hello all, from Philly. Just got to my hotel.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

September 22, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

I just wanted to comment on the rumors of Frenchy going to the Royals. For all the struggles Frenchy has had this rumor reminds me of another trade that took place about 10 years or so ago. Remember how Jermaine Dye was somewhat struggling and the Braves traded him to the Royals? Well, we all know the rest is history. I think Frenchy should be given another year to prove himself but with a backup plan in place in case he continues to suck.

By Lew

September 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Denizens-Just contacted the Braves’ PR Office about us doing a blog award for Hank Aaron, much like we did early this year for Skip (Wurlitzer Drawing and book of fan testimonials). They like the idea and are interested in knowing how we would like to do the presentation. Any ideas y’all might have in this regard would be appreciated.

When the time comes, I’ll ask for a couple paragraphs from any and all about what Hank has meant to us as Braves’ fans, which I will then assemble into book form. Anyone interested will be invited to participate. Let’s put those DOB/MIB/ BBQ Blog thinking caps on and come up with some good proposals.

We saw first hand this year that our Braves’ Icons won’t be around forever. Let’s show Hank what the Fans think of Him and His contributions to the Braves while the opportunity still exists..

By DAP

September 22, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

robert(CITB) i dont really remember that about dye…seems like he had a good rookie year…looking at stats he hit .280 with 12 HR and 37 RBIs in 98 games…finished 6 in ROY voting. seems like a pretty different situation. jeff has been up for 2.5 years and has been much worse than dye was.

but you could be right. jeff is hitting better in september, so maybe he is out of his funk.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Cantu has created around 94.2 runs this season and 5.53 runs per 27 outs.

Greg Norton has created 5.87 runs per 27 outs.

Cantu would have still been an upgrade over Francoeur this season (who isn’t?).

By Savannah Guy

September 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

I usually don’t respond to idiots but I couldn’t bring myself to ignore these comments from several posts by an oft blathering, obviously angry, tortured soul:

I hold tightly and firm on my bitterness and resentment of the New York Yankees. I’d have to go back many years before I could show any reverence for that franchise…..You’ve failed your God, Andy Pettitte. You worhtless Bible-beating steroid cheater. You are a cheater Andy. God doesn’t like cheaters. You knew that and yet you did it anyway.

If these were the first such posts of this kind from this particular blogger I’d simply ignore it but these twisted comments go on and on. Frankly, I’m tired of the few here that constantly run on with whatever sick perspective they have. They soil the blog.

Mitchell, gather yourself kid and while you’re at it, take a nice long break. Posts like yours remind me of how dark the human spirit can be yet I never cease to be amazed at the depth of despair and the height of vitriol on blogs from the few like you. Usually I’ll scroll by the late-night psycho-babble where these apparently limited types of unfortunate souls use the public forum as their own personal rant-room, but your posts were the tipping point and deserved ridicule.

Your bitterness around the Yankees is your problem, but your uncalled for, unnecessary and vile comments on Andy Pettitte’s character were over the line and just wrong. Your character was revealed by your words, not his. Pettitte is actually one of the most honorable players in the game. I imagine most everyone but you know that. There was no reason to defile him, his religious beliefs and the bible as you did.

Just because the Yankees were ‘my’ team until mid-teens, I couldn’t give a rat sass whether you or anyone else liked them or not. It’s a stupid, immature, pseudo-hate thing reserved for idiots that call themselves sports fans I suppose. There’s more than a fine line between giving a rival team (or their intruding blog fans) a hard time and throwing a filthy blanket over an entire city or franchise. Your limited sphere of knowledge and appreciation is just sad.

Evidently you couldn’t appreciate the historic event last night as most (mature, well-rounded, mentally stable) baseball fans did, where the storied Yanks played their last game at the ‘House that Ruth Built’. I watched most of that game and the celebration afterwards and loved it. Yankees fan or not, it was a historic moment for true baseball fans, no matter the league, division or team you currently support.

Sorry the good denizens had to read that lashing out. I’m sure it won’t help but had to be said. Now, I’ll wash my hands of negativity from the one who constantly soils the blog and pull a Scribe-like transition to the better, more wholesome side of baseball.

Last night after the game, to see Derrick Jeter walking around the stadium was chill-bump inducing in and of itself. To see the future HOF gathering of Jeter, Pettitte and Rivera together with Posada getting their photo taken was quite a moment as well.

With all of the years and Yankee icons like Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Maris, Berra, Dickey, Rizzuto, Hoyt, Munson, Ford, Howard, Stengel, Robinson, Jackson, Boggs, Hunter, Winfield, Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Torre… I’ll even throw Bobby Richardson, Clete Boyer and Elston Howard in there for old time sake (leaving out so many)… the Yankees are probably more America’s team than any other. Maybe it’s just me but last night was a bittersweet and historic event for all of baseball and for anyone who appreciates our great American pastime.

Last night equaled… no, actually topped Cal Ripken’s famous celebration lap in terms of baseball history. The end of an era and such.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Francoeur is hitting .306/.367/.458 so far in September.

His batting average on balls in the field of play: .350

By David O'Brien

September 22, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Savannah, I had the same thoughts reading Mitchell’s ridiculously over-the-top post about the Yankee Stadium sendoff.

By Jim

September 22, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

The Braves’ strength is middle infield. They have 4 good middle infielders in Yunel, KJ, Prado, and Infante. Chipper misses up to 40 games/year with various injuries and we need a competent backup (Prado/Infante), Middle infielders tend to get injured and need occasional rest since the position is the most demanding after catcher. We need the depth we have this year if this position is going to remain one of our strengths.

KJ is not a great defensive 2B, but it is evident to anyone that pays attention that his defense has improved markedly this year as he has become more comfortable at the position. He is much better at going to his right, and more confident fielding his position. Second base is a position that is manned by a lot of mediocre fielders (Kent, Uggla, Cano, Weeks, to begin naming a few). DOB cited some stats last week that indicate that KJ is at least an average defensive 2B, and realistically KJ and or JF will not bring back a power hitting OF (or one that isn’t a statue in the field and a K artist at the plate), or more than a 3/4 starting pitcher.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Wonder how many times that person has known something was wrong and did it anyway?

By Metropolitan Man

September 22, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

LEW

Time for the Mets fans to realize we actually were IN the World Series several times in the last fifteeen years. The Mets? No appearances at all.

Lets see, there was a Subway Series in 2000 and its 2008. Ok, you have just proven jealousy, and hate can cloud the mind and produce false numbers.

By Mitchell

September 22, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Ouch.

My bad. I usually try to balance out the Blaine Boyer hatred and Met bashing that goes on around here, though I supposed I’m occasionally guilty of the latter.

I sincerely apologize for crossing the line.

You could say Andy Pettitte is not high on my list. Though perhaps not as low as Roger Clemens.

I just know that in the next five to ten years the baseball world will that the Braves might not have had all the glory, but that they at least did it the right way.

But you have to admit the Big Red Machine was overrated. You gotta give me that.

By Brian

September 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

If we do trade for Olsen, the Braves need to be sure to supply him with two hats per start! He’s be alot better than Reyes, well I can pitch better than he’s pitched lately, but I wouldn’t trade KJ for him. Maybe B.Jones and a lower P prospect or two.

By Braveheart

September 22, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

I just know that in the next five to ten years the baseball world will that the Braves might not have had all the glory, but that they at least did it the right way.

Dude, that is a really dumb statement to make. We’ll never know but it’s reasonable to believe that the Braves had just as many roidheads as any other team. Thankfully, the feds just never came sniffing around our clubhouse. Rocker, Justice, Byrd ….. they found those 3 without even investigating the Atlanta area ….. you think those were the only ones? Don’t be naive.

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

But you have to admit the Big Red Machine was overrated. You gotta give me that.

I guess it depends on how you are rating them, but an average of 100.4 wins a year and outscoring your opponent by 178.6 runs a year from 1972-1976 is pretty tough to overrate.

By Jim

September 22, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Savannah guy,

Thanks for the reasoned post. I’m not a Yankee fan, but I remember the sense of awe that I experienced as a kid climbing up the ramp and getting my first glimpse of the field at Yankee Stadium. No other stadium that I have been to since (Fenway, the Vet, Ciitizen’s Bank, Shea, the Polo Grounds, Forbes Field, and certainly Stade Olympic) come close to it. My most memorable Yankee Stadium memory was being in attendance for game 5 of the 1956 WS.

By Brian

September 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Justice and steroids? WHAT THE F!!! Who cares, he and Chipper are my favorites of all time! Just in case anyone cares, I have EVERY single Justice card. I think it’s like 72 cards- I think

By bravelee

September 22, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Chipper backing into the batting title is the lone highlight from an abysmal year. Seems something acts up every time a tough pitcher is on the mound—Harden, Santana, etc. But in this awful year, its OK to be selfish, Chipper. And anyone who thinks this team is going to compete in the next few years had better re-think…cuz there’s too many holes, and money can’t fill them all—plus, they won’t spend it anyway! And the cupboard is bare in the farm system.

By DAP

September 22, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

bravelee the braves have like $40mil coming off the books, and they just arent gonna spend it? do you really think that?

By DAP

September 22, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

bravelee the braves have like $40mil coming off the books, and they just arent gonna spend it? do you really think that?

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

What is the “right way”?

If I’m a GM in the 1990s, should I have avoided signing or trading for certain players because they are suspected of using PEDs? Would that be the “right way”?

By Shaun

September 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

bravelee, for what it’s worth, Baseball Prospectus ranked the Braves organization 8th in baseball at the start of the season.

I know those rankings don’t guarantee anything but I think it is at least a little bit of evidence that the cupboard isn’t exactly bare.

By Former Blogger

September 22, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Bravelee: Cupboard is bare?

Do the names Tommy Hanson, Todd Redmond, Kris Medlen, Freddie Freeman, Tyler Flowers, Jordan Shafer, Jason Heyward, Cole Rohrbaugh, Duente Heath, Julio Teheran, Gorkys Hernandez, etc. mean anything to you?

By McFann ;Ô;

September 22, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Shaun @ 1:59—

I agree.

By David O'Brien

September 22, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOGGAGE in the hole

By McFann ;Ô;

September 22, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Bravelee Chipper backing into the batting title is the lone highlight from an abysmal year.

Not true. There were plenty of others…

And gives me a thought. We should list our Top Ten 2008 Moments. Could be fun, ya know?

By MGL

September 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Braves offense vs the NL:

Avg 3rd, OBP 3rd, SLG 11th, BB 2nd, SO 3rd, Hits 3rd, DB 4th, Trip 6th, HR 14th, Run 7th

Except for the power department, that is not a bad set of stats.

By Mitchell

September 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

You’re probably right Braveheart.

But in terms of Hall of Famer players, Byrd and Rocker don’t exactly count. I know Justice was on the Mitchell list but I don’t know, I’d like to think he would be a serious candidate for Cooperstown somewhere down the road. That was a surpirse however. Perhaps I am being a little naive if not somewhat hypocritical.

I was probably more suprised though by Javy not being on the list. You have to wonder a little how he went from 15 or so homers to 40 the next year.

But the Braves will still have more Hall of Famers than anybody over the last two decades and certainly as far as Chipper is concerned, we know he’s clean. It would be nice if he could get 500 homeruns but he could use some help.

There’s obviously no doubt about him or Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine. It’s been so long for Maddux though, you almost wonder if he’d still go in as a Brave.

Then there’s Bobby and John Schuerholz and if there’s any justice in the world (no pun intended), Skip and Pete too.

Who knows what’s going to happen with Andruw Jones. He was certainly headed in that direction. He’s still the best center fielder I’ve ever seen, if that counts for anything.

Then there’s Brian McCann and maybe even our boy Jeff Francoeur. He’s still a young guy, younger than me even… though not by too much. Perhaps that will temper the incessant speculation.

I don’t really know what that means, but it sounded good.

I almost forgot Fred McGriff. He seems like an Andre Dawson or Jim Rice type of guy. I hope he gets in someday.

I don’t know, I just can’t help feeling like the Braves don’t get half the credit and praise they deserve. There’s an understatement.

I think that will eventually change. I look forward to it.

By stickem

September 26, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

If Chipper elects to play on Saturday or Sunday, he will essentially be giving Pujols a shot at the batting title. By sitting out the last two games, Pujols would have to go 7-for-7 or 8-for-9 to overtake Chipper. But if Jones puts up an 0-for-4 or something like that, then Pujols has a much better shot. Chipper’s .365 batting average would tie Mickey Mantle (1957) for the highest average ever posted by a switch-hitter.

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