Braves

By MGL

September 18, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Looking at next year’s schedule, there are some brutal stretches. For example, in MAY/June, the Braves play 13 straight, one day off, 17 straight, 1 day off, and 13 straight again. Each stretch has both home and away games, so there is travel in there also.

This tells me that Brovos must have a quality bench, including back-up catcher. Keeping the team as fresh as possible could be one of the keys to success. Starters must eat innings during this time or there better be some spare arms in Richmond that can be rotated in to the mix.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

MGL This tells me that Brovos must have a quality bench, including back-up catcher.

Yes! Please! There must be some backup catcher somewhere that cann hit over .220!

By AdirondackDave

September 18, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Nice piece on Chipper, Carroll. Not that I care for hunting. My main interest in deer up here, is not hitting them with my car in the evening hours when they are out all over the place.

Ten days to go and Chipper has an 11-point lead over Puhols, that’s where my baseball brain is. If Chipper keeps hitting at his current pace he’s going to win the batting title. In fact, this last three year run averaging over .340 is really a great mid-thirties accomplishment for any player. Looking forward to his induction about 10 years from now in Cooperstown, which is just down the road from here, so to speak.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

I know a little about hunting but I know for sure that deer meat is the best I’ve ever tasted! Very little fat and if cooked right the most tender meat you can eat! Not pretty though, seeing a deer get skinned, but that’s part of it.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 18, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

As an avid bowhunter, I’ll be glad to clarify the botched Chipper hunting scene, titled “Hog Commander” on the [url=http://www.buckcommander.com]video’s website[/url].

Chipper was actually preparing to shoot a hog. As he began to draw his bow, he accidentally touched the trigger on his string release. Since he was at only half-draw and not set to aim yet, the arrow just kinda sailed off to who knows where. You’re absolutely right, though. He just about lost it. He finally regained his composure long enough to knock another arrow and harvest the hog. The camera man for that scene was Matt Duff, who I think had a brief pitching stint with the Cardinals or one of their minor league affiliates. I think JD Drew has a brief appearance on the video as well. Hilarious scene. I love that entire DVD.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NssoxIHW6LI]See if this link to the scene works[/url]

By Bone

September 18, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Does Norton realize that it gets cold in Atlanta during the winter, too? His wife might find that it’s no warmer in ATL during January than it is where their California home is.

I remember when it got down to eight below zero in ATL back in 1985 or 1986. Man.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 18, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Well it looks like I botched the links on the last post. Try it this way:

The hog scene:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NssoxIHW6LI

The Buck Commander website

www.buckcommander.com

By Braves20

September 18, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

McFann - First, I find your posts entertaining.

Second, if there is a back-up catcher who can hit over .220, he hasn’t worn a Braves uniform in the past several years.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Arkansas Hillbilly, much obliged. Nice to understand what really happened! And i thought the best part was when Chipper goes “boy, the guys back at the camp are going to get a real kick out of this.” and then they show a room full of guys watching the video, laughing their rear ends off.

And Brian, I guess I haven’t seen the half of it, have I? Thank goodness!

I like it, MGL. never too early to analyze next year’s schedule. good insight.

By Lou Vales

September 18, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

For a guy who gets hurt because “My hotel bed wasn’t soft enough” and who had a ball attack him in a batting cage—-I would think that the rigors of deer hunting might be way too much for one Larry Jones out of the Bolles School.

Thanks for the help again yesterday.

By DAP

September 18, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

several veteran catchers are free agents. its not something i think the braves need to spend on, but estrada, gregg zaun, brad ausmus, and more are all free agents. of course, backup catchers cant hit. thats why they are backups. a great defender like ausmus might be a good idea. personally, i would just use sammons. we have bigger issues.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Braves20—

Thank you!

Re the backup catcher:

I think you’re spot on.

Thanks for the new blog, Ms. Rogers!

I love deer! We get them in the woods behind our house sometimes. I’ve gotten pretty close to them—and a mother deer once threatened to charge at me. It was scary, I have to say: she was snorting and moving around with her ears sticking straight up in the air and her tail flapping…I was too close to her babies, I s’pose. But I high-tailed it back into the house!

By King Karl

September 18, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

As for Smoltz in the broadcast booth, I hope he drops his annoying habit of saying:”what people don’t understand” Just explain your point John, without talking down to us.

Joe Simspon shouldn’t be anywhere near a national broadcast booth—unless he is serving coffee to the announcers.

He is the most blatant rah rah cheerleader of all the baseball announcers—and I get the MLB package. No objectivity. He makes all of the Braves sound like members of the 1927 Yankees.

He’ll probably be rooting for the Braves and complaining about the strike zone even when they aren’t playing.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

DAP—

It’d be cool to have Ausmus!

But I agree the Braves have much bigger issues…I suppose Sammons will be fine.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Speaking of the schedule, they begin the year with one of my BIGGEST pet peeves (beside the fact that it’s the Fillies, I mean):

They play the first game, and then they have the next day off! Can’t the poor babies play a few games at the beginning of the year without needing a rest right away?

Save those days-off for August and September when they might actually need one!

By proeye

September 18, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

What is it with this team? For the last 20 years there always seems to be that one guy on the bench who sticks around for years who has trouble hitting .200. Then we hear from the local homers that this guy is such an asset because he does all the fundamentals right, he fields his position, he gets the bunts down, he makes the right calls, and he makes key hits. Like somehow lack of mistakes and hitting the ball in those two situations per year where it counted is key to staying with the club.

You all know who I’m talking about…

So let’s work on getting a stronger bench. It’s okay but I think we need a couple of replacements. Look Liberty & Braves Mgmt: You need to be less afraid of spending money on the bench. It’s inevitable that someone is going to get hurt and you’re going to have a light hitting, “does not belong in the majors” replacement.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

I hope we get Lowe but if he’s our ace next year, don’t know if that will be enough to take on the Phils/Muts/Marlins in ‘09! It’s either spend big bucks on Dunn/Burrell and trade for(I saw where the 2 P for the Rays might be dealt) or really go for it by trading for a true ace! I don’t think we’ll have one next year and have a rotation of #2’s and #3’s. Who the hell knows!

By Braves20

September 18, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Just caught a glimpse of the ‘09 schedule. We’ve rotated back to the AL East for inter league play but no Tampa Bay.

Instead we play the “traditional rivalry” Bosox home and home instead of an AL East team that is an hour’s airplane ride away. What a joke.

And yes, for full disclosure sake, I live in the Tampa Bay area and would welcome the opportunity to see the Braves at the Trop again.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

KingKarl- Joe Simpson is fine announcer that wants his Braves to WIN!! I like when a announcer expresses OUR frustrations for us!! He and Booggy are very good at what they do, even though Boogs facial expressions are freaky! WHATEVER DUDE

By cabravesfan

September 18, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

McFann- as much as I can’t stand that play-next day off thing there actually is a reason for it- they do that in case of bad weather on opening day- so they will have a free day to get the game in if need be

By Braves20

September 18, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Could we perhaps seek a right handed hitting left fielder who makes contact and will hit 20-25 homers as opposed to either Burrell or Dunn who could combine with Frenchy for 8-10 punch outs on a given night?

By Random

September 18, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

McFann !!Ô!!: “They play the first game, and then they have the next day off! Can’t the poor babies play a few games at the beginning of the year without needing a rest right away?”

Easy does it, kid — they do that to allow for the good chance of a cancellation due to the weather.

I think.

By RC

September 18, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Braves20, Frenchy only strikes out when there are no runners on to set up the double play.

By Billy

September 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

King Karl sez: As for Smoltz in the broadcast booth, I hope he drops his annoying habit of saying:”what people don’t understand” Just explain your point John, without talking down to us.

Well King Karl you seem to feel you are the smart baseball fan and if that is the case and you are smarter than everyone else I do not think Smoltz was referring to you and talking down to you.

King Karl Since you know so much…. all you need to do…. when Smoltz is educating fans…. on a subject he is familiar with is move your head slightly to one side or the other and when the comment from Smoltz…. that was meant for the less informed… zooms past your ears and barely misses that huge information box on top of your shoulders you can comfort yourself it was meant for others.

Smoltz please keep the info coming for ”what people don’t understand”, it is refreshing to hear it from an expert who does rather from a wannabe expert that only watches.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

September 18, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t Chipper have the highest batting average in all of mlb - american and national leagues? I always wonder why people sometimes say he has the highest ba “in the national league”? Is there a reason?

By bobby

September 18, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Dunn or Burrell are the answer, especially Burrell. We don’t need another .240 hitter who may or may not hit a home run once or twice a week.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

I like Greg Norton now that he’s in his role of pinch-hitter, bat off the bench.. i dread it when he was playing everyday… He’d be a solid piece for next year though and I hope he stays… Gotay I think is replaceable though

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan, Random—

I gotcha. Thanks!

I guess that makes sense…They did have snow flurries in Filly at the beginning of ‘07…

What irritates me more is that Opening Day isn’t until April sixth! April 6? Man! Why are we gonna hafta wait that long? It ain’t fair…

Hit, Heap, Hit!—

Good thought on the name change…we could sure use it. He sure didn’t look to good at the plate last night…He had one pretty good AB there in the fourth—well, OK, six-pitch at-bat with no swinging until he hit the fly ball to…The Reaper.

By MGL

September 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

My desires for position players:

Catcher: McCann + backup - (Sammons is fair)

Infield: Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman

Outfield: New Clean-up Hitter, Anderson for LHP/Schafer for RHP platoon, Frenchy

Bench: Infante, Prado, Diaz

You have good enough backup for every position that the bench can actually be used regularly. No Gotay, Woodward, Wilson cast-offs!!

By DAP

September 18, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

hit heap hit i think people always say that because they seperate the leagues so much…even though there is interleague play, they still have NL and AL champs, seperate cy young winners, MVPs, batting titles, ect. players are often only compared to other players in thier league. every now and then though, chipper is mentioned as having the highest average in the majors.

By Jim H.

September 18, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen the video, but as a life-long serious passionate deer hunter I’m please that a well respected quality guy like Chipper participates and promotes an activity that I love. He is a much better ambassador to the non-hunting public than say, Ted Nugent (although I personally like Ted, I can see why others wouldn’t). I’ve bow hunted for about 35 years or so and I can definitely relate to Chippers mishap. Bow hunting deer ain’t easy and there are lots of opportunities to screw up. I’m normally not real big on deer hunting videos because most of them are shot in places that average hunters don’t have access to and make it look WAY easier than it is. I have just one correction for you Carroll. No deer hunter’s that I know hunt FICTIONAL cartoon characters (Bambi). We all hunt deer.

And it kind of tells you the state of the Braves theses days that we are discussing deer hunting on a Braves blog, don’t it?

By DAP

September 18, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

yes, resign greg norton, and pray he never has to start.

By Billy Walsh

September 18, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Dunn will give you 40 + homers, 100+ rbi, and 100 + runs scored. His on base percentage is always high and he walks a ton. Does he strike out a lot? Yes. Is his batting average below 240? Yes. Does he suck in the field? Absolutely. But, he gives you tremendous power numbers and would protect Jones and Mac in their lineup quite nicely. What scares me is the chance of the braves signing Lowe. He is 35 and will probably want a 4 year deal. I would make a big push to sign Ryan Dempster. Even though he wants to resign with the cubs. Signing Lowe or Sheets would be a mistake (C.C. would be out of Liberty’s price range)

By AdirondackDave

September 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Brad Ausmus would be a fine pickup for the Braves. The guy’s outstanding defensively and although his stats are unimpressive he actually give you a clutch hit now and then. I’d say grab ‘em when you can and give him 2-3 years.

By DAP

September 18, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

billy walsh good points about dunn. we might have good enough hitters in our lineup to handle having a guy like dunn. and, he makes a good cleanup hitter, which is exactly where we need him.

i wouldnt worry about lowe. i dont think he will get a 4 year deal, and by 2010, he would be flanked by a returning hudson, a much more experienced jurjens, and some of our youngun’s that are coming up.

when thinking about signing pitchers, we should do it for 2009, and consider years after that as bonuses. i want lowe and garland, personally.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 18, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

One more bit of trivia about the Buck Commander/Duck Commander hunting series:

Phil Robertson (the Duck Commander himself), was the starting quarterback at Louisiana Tech. His back-up was……Terry Bradshaw. Yes, that Terry Bradshaw. Phil discusses it on one of his duck videos. Talking about how their careers went separate ways after college, he says,

“He went for the $$bucks$$. I went for the ducks.”

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave @ 2:41—

That would be cool! I like Ausmus.

He’s a Gold Glover, ain’t he?

By DAP

September 18, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

how about lowe for 3 years, $33mil

jon garland 4 years $45mil

adam dunn 4 years $52mil

if mlb trade rumors is correct, we’d have about 7 mil left over for norton, ohman, and raises, if payrole stays the same. is this realistic?

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Speakin’ of nature stuff, I just brought about a dozen Black Swallowtail caterpillars into the house! They were all over the parsley that’s growing under our deck! (Obviously I put them and their food into a terrarium first.)

We set a personal record with 32 Monarch caterpillars in May (actually, we had more, but they didn’t all make it to butterfly-hood).

By DAP

September 18, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

if we get lowe and garland, we would be looking at a rotation next year of lowe, jurjens, garland, campillo, morton/jojo.

in 2010 we would have hudson, lowe, jurjens, garland, campillo (or maybe hanson, who knows?)

that 2010 roation looks pretty good, with 4 extreme groundball pitchers.

if we sign adam dunn, i doesnt need to be with a full no trade clause, because we cant have him blocking anyone.

im excited about signing free agents to help in 2009, but also beyond that.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

September 18, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the explanation, DAP.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

I’m watching Dave Bush pitch for the Brewers right now and cant help but think he is exactly what we need to bolster our staff.. A quality #3 guy who ill eat up innings i looked at Cot’s Baseball Contracts and it says he is signed for 1 year (‘08) for 2.55 Million… Sounds like a bargain to me.

By N Nine

September 18, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Chipper can hunt all he wants with that BA title belt

By Efrim

September 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

DAP

I’m not a fan of Garland. Really low K rate. He is quite hittable too. Just doesn’t seem like the type of pitcher that I would hand a multi year deal to. Lowe is a different story, although he has some age, he has been pretty durable in years past. He also isn’t THAT old. But I worry that many teams will want him. He isn’t someone I would give more than 3 years and 30 million to.

By DAP

September 18, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

goodolboy58 i think thats an arbitration contract…he is still under team control i believe.

By Random

September 18, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

from Joe Sheehan/BP

Ned Yost has been fired by the Milwaukee Brewers, a near-unprecedented move by a team that currently is tied for the lead in the wild card. At that, it may well be justified; Yost’s decision making, particularly his administration of the bullpen, has been questionable all season long, and it reached a nadir yesterday afternoon in Philadelphia…

… In the eighth inning of yesterday’s first game, the Brewers were tied 3-3. Guillermo Mota allowed a leadoff single to Jayson Werth, and was lifted for Brian Shouse so that Shouse could face Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. (Charlie Manuel’s refusal to always put a right-handed batter between those two is a big reason why the Phillies will have trouble winning a short series.) Utley sacrificed Werth to second, setting up Shouse versus Howard.

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was… well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can’t. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can’t hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn’t have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he’s a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That’s when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

So it was no surprise that four pitches later, the Phillies were up 7-3. Burrell singled in one run, and Shane Victorino cleared the bases with a three-run homer to left.

By Mitchell

September 18, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Screw the Yankees and Red Sox. They can come down here if they want but they’ll get their @$$e$ kicked. Or not.

I hate all their stupid fans. They (the Red Sox) beat us the last couple of series but we’ve swept them and taken series’s’s’s from them, back when we were actually good.

I found that little poll/questionaire about which team would you like to see a little annoying on the Braves main page, in case anyone was wondering.

The worst thing is I looked at the Braves record vs. the Yankees over the inter-league years of play and we’re 9 and 11 against them. It would have been nice to have 9 games against them in the World Series. Or at least 2 more in ‘96. We had no shot in ‘99 after John Rocker let the Mets back into the NLCS. They took all of our momentum. It sucked.

We should have 4 World Series banners up there in left field. Lonnie Smith, Charlie Liebrant, Jeff Reardon, Mark Wohlers. Thanks but no thanks.

Oh God, make it stop.

I love this Met guy who killed a cat. Well, I don’t love him. I think he’s a piece of s*.

You could find the cure for cancer but if you ever wore a Mets jersey, you’d still be a no-good f*ing loser.

God bless.

By DAP

September 18, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Efrim garland doesnt miss many bats, but he doesnt put many guys on either, and, he is a groundball pitcher. his whip isnt much higher than jurjens’. hes better than say, dave bush, suggested above. garland is a good #3 guy. durable, alot of innings, all that stuff. for the right price, he a great guy to solidify a pitching staff. just my opine, though.

for lowe, he wants to go to a competitive team, so it might depend on how he percieves the braves. hes solid. thats what we need.

By mbatl

September 18, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Just heard Frank Wren on 680 radio; nothing really new, but he said clearly that the Braves have no problem spending money on starting pitching… he knows it’s going to be expensive. But, he also stressed that he’s very opposed to terms of 6 years or more for any starter, that you’re almost guaranteed to run into diminishing returns in the out years.

That probably takes CC out of the equation (if he was ever in it).

Wren also said that the team is very pleased with Hampton and would love to have him back if they can work a deal.

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Anyone who wants Pat Burrell in the “A” next year, needs to check the philles fans responses at philly.com/phillies forum, and they weill tell you that he will only be productive for half of the season and then go dormant for the other half…

Plus he’s Slower than Sid Bream, and his range ranks up there with Manny…

I thought braves fans got enough streakiness from #25 A. Jones…?

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DAP, right now Garland is a good 3/4 guy, but I’d be willing to bet based on his low K rates that he’s due for a big dropoff within the next 2-3 years, which would be within the life of a contract we’d give him.

I’ll say no to him, unless we either get a huge bargain or he’s the only guy available.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

thanks i dont know much about determining arbitration.. it says his MLB service time is at 3.052… anyway I think he’s been pretty steady the few times I’ve seen him this year… not spectacular but a steady innings eater ya know

By Efrim

September 18, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

I know Lowe wants a competitive team, and I am afraid that may shy him away from the Braves. Jurrjens K’s 6.85 batters per 9 innings, compared to Garland who K’s 3.99 per 9 innings. Yes, Garland doesn’t walk as many, but he sure gives up a ton of hits. Plus you’ll be giving him something like 10-12 million a year. I just don’t think it is worth it.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does.

Oh, but he got a hit off Gonzo!

Why is it—I ask you all—that when the Braves bring in a lefty pitcher to face a guy that “can’t hit lefties”, the guy hits a home run. But now, last night when the Fillies brought in a lefty to face BMac with two men on, BMac hits a stupid second-pitch, broken bat pop up to the pitcher?

I tell you, it’s annoying as all get out!

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Mark DeRosa is bound and determined to lose this game for the Cubs

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

To elaborate a bit more on my previous post:

If we would have had Garland this season, we would have done a lot better because (obviously) he’s put up halfway decent numbers, and has had good ERA+ numbers the last few seasons. However, I just can’t see him sustaining any kind of success the next few seasons due to those low K rates. I really think that he’s headed for a decline w/in the next 2-4 years…I daresay that Tommy Hanson (and maybe even Charlie Morton) will probably be better for us over the course of the next 3-4 seasons than Garland would be. Maybe not immediately, but cumulatively, you get my point.

By Random

September 18, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

McFann =Ô=: “Speakin’ of nature stuff,” do you have any tips you’d care to share on rooting plant cuttings? Is overthe winter a good time to do it?

I’d like to take some cuttings from some plants I walk by on my way to work — sweet shrub, rose creek abelia, some bush with green, yellow and pink leaves and a couple of other bushes with green and yellow leaves. It’d be great if I could propagate them for my yard.

Thanks.

PS: “That would be cool! I like Ausmus… He’s a Gold Glover, ain’t he?”

So is Derek Jeter (and david Wright!) — that should tell you all you need to know about the significance of being given a GG award.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Random

I would have walked Ryan Howard too… Or maybe you didn’t see the game winning HR he hit off Gonzo who happens to be left-handed… Now I would have relieved the lefty to put in a righty to face Burrell but you cant fault someone, anyone for walking Howard in that situation.

By Random

September 18, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

natjenki/posted on BP

It’s pretty clear from everything coming out of Milwaukee that this was NOT Doug Melvin’s decision. He was and definitely remains a Yost “believer”. Brewer ownership, however, believes in the maxim, “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ME”.

Because this is the second straight year that the Brewers have gone into a swan dive with Yost calling the shots. And instead of mitigating the impact of a team slump Yost exacerbates the situation.

Yost is a people management guy. Period. That’s his “thing”. He creates an environment where folks feel that they can succeed and with a young team that has been an asset. [Sound like any manager we know?] But as the team’s needs have changed Ned’s failings have become more exposed. Competing in a division with Tony LaRussa and Lou Piniella have clearly demonstrated that if the game comes down to the manager’s decision-making the Brewers are a man short. Cripes, Dusty Baker(!) has outmaneuvered Ned at times this season.

The Brewers were put in a position of having to win on talent. And while the team has guys with ability unless everyone is firing on all cylinders each night was an adventure. Going 20-7 in August was due to the starters being lights out and offense holding its own. Once the starters went south and hitters began to struggle the team needed a manager to help them squeak out a few wins. Ned fumbled two games against the Mets at home. Another two against the Reds. That turned a 5-5 or even a 6-4 homestand into a 3-7 debacle.

I know it’s the analyst’s creed that a manager doesn’t make a difference. But watching Ned Yost for so many years I now know that this idea is complete and utter nonsense. When the Brewers were a bad team Yost cost the team maybe 2 wins a season. As the team improved that number increased to approximately 5. And I could make a pretty good argument that in 2007 it was more like 8.

Yost is a guy destined for the role of helping get a team on its feet. But don’t ever expect him to bring home the gold. He just doesn’t have the goods.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Hmm…I guess it’s time for another update on John Grove.

LAST NIGHT:__He went 1-3, and his AVG was .286.

TODAY:__He’s 0-2 with a strikeout, and his AVG dropped one point to .285.

BMac still holds a slim lead in all major categories (HR, 2B, RBI, OBP) except for AVG—a 14 point lead—and after last night, he still holds a 21 point lead in SLG (Grove’s has gone down today, so that lead is now greater, but I don’t have his exact SLG at the moment).

Before play today, BMac held a 7 point lead in OBP, and a 27 point lead in OPS. Brian also has 7 more hits than Grove.

More to come. Stay tuned.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Its ignorant to say a pitcher isn’t going to be successful in a few years because he has low K/9 numbers. There is more to the game then striking people out and many a successful pitcher has survived just fine with below average numbers in that department.

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Garland’s WHIP is also high….it’s hard to take a long-term risk on a guy that will have difficulty managing his hit totals in years to come (see Voros McCracken). If he gets “unlucky” or just plain “bad” and starts giving up more hits (and add to his already high WHIP), he’s going to be in big trouble because he lacks the ability to strike people out and therefore control the number of balls put in play against him.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Random do you have any tips you’d care to share on rooting plant cuttings? Is overthe winter a good time to do it?

Hmm…I’m not sure when the best time to do it is…I’ve done it by accident before by cutting off part of a plant and sticking in water—and then roots sprouted from the bottom of it.

I wish I had more to tell you! : ( Maybe if you got the roots to sprout from the plant clipping over the winter, you could plant it in the spring.

Re you “PS”:

So…you don’t like Ausmus, do you?

8 )

By Random

September 18, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58: “I would have walked Ryan Howard too… … Now I would have relieved the lefty to put in a righty to face Burrell but you cant fault someone, anyone for walking Howard in that situation.”

I’m willing to concede that point — lately (Aug, and esp Sep), Howard has been significantly exceeding his career and earlier-this-season performances against LHPs.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Efrim- From what I’ve read, Lowe says he’d welcome the opportunity to play with the Braves. Whether or not he will be there, I’d HOPE that it’s up to the Braves to make him an offer! Perz-(Bori$), Sabathia-(Yankee$), Sheets-(Hampton part2), Garland-(HELL NO!!), so outside of Lowe/Dempster/Burnett not much else! That’s a good 3 right there but Burnett is an injury risk that’ll want 6-7 yrs and Dempster is a ? So in my mind they need to sign Lowe as soon as they can!!

By DAP

September 18, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

efrim and goodolboy i wanted to take back something i said. i asserted that garland was better than dave bush. while dave bush is much more of a fly ball pitcher, and thus, gives up alot of homers, hes got a better ERA and WHIP than garland. hes less experienced, but except for groudball/flyball, hes pretty much the same.

also, goodolboy, the reason i figure bush is arbitration eligable is because his contract this year was signed in order to avoid arbitration (same way with, for example, jeff francouer) and bush’s name isnt on the free agent list on mlb trade rumors, which is where i always look at free agents.

By Bill

September 18, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

The Braves needs to trade anyone except McCann, C. Jones & Jurrgens. With the right package, I think Escobar could bring a SP. I’m not sold on Escobar yet. I think he is older than what they are reporting. He has no speed but a strong arm. I think they should consider trading Kotchman. Got to get some power in lineup, no Dunn Or Burrell. Don’t trade away the farm to satisfy Cox. No long term contracts.

By Mitchell

September 18, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Gotta love our good ol’ boy Braves. Not exactly high society.

I just watched the clip of Chipper shooting a deer. A little overboard with that full body camouflage. You’re shooting defenseless deer, if they see you they’ll run away and then it will actually be challenging to kill it.

Why deers? Why not mountain lions and coyotes and stuff that would eat your baby. Go out and p** off a bear and then shoot it as it’s charging you full steam. That would probably get your adrenaline going.

It’s ridiculous. And I don’t get why being against hunting somehow makes you a p**.

On the other hand, if somebody wanted to kill all the racoons in the world I’d be on board for that. I saw a video of a racoon tearing up some guy’s kitchen. He was up above the cabinets and had chewed holes through the wall and poking his head out. I would have bashed his freaking head in.

There, now I fulfilled my dudeness.

I like all those Braves and Mets videos.

There were these loser Met fans who recorded themselves at a game yelling at Bobby who got thrown out when Jair was pitching earlier in the season. Such idiots.

I would have love to have seen the video after the game of them going home to their tiny apartments having just attending yet another Mets loss to the Braves.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Carroll, I agree totally on your assessment of Greg Norton. He has been everything advertised. Of course, I knew that when the Braves picked him up from the Mariners. I campaigned for the Braves to go get him and apparently somebody in the front office agreed.

Norton’s great off the bench. Not so good as a starter. He’ll be back in 2009.

Steve, I could not disagree more concerning Jon Garland. He would make nice addition at the back of the Braves rotation.

Here is Garland’s scouting report:

Assets:

Durable and dependable, Garland is a battler and inning eater. He gets ahead and challenges with his sinking fastball and uses a sharp curve and solid change to put batters away. Is always around the plate, so doesn’t give up many walks.

Flaws:

For a big guy he doesn’t overpower anyone. Despite his solid command Garland gives up too many homers and too many hits in general. Could stand to be craftier with his stuff.

Career potential: Steady mid-rotation starter.

By Efrim

September 18, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58

Its ignorant to say a pitcher isn’t going to be successful in a few years because he has low K/9 numbers. There is more to the game then striking people out and many a successful pitcher has survived just fine with below average numbers in that department.

Well, let me tell ya, I’d much rather have the guy that takes the defense out of the game than the guy who relies on his to get himself through the game. A lot of balls are in play when Jon Garland is pitching. He isn’t a Tim Hudson who strikes out 5.39 per game. 3.99 is really low. Pitchers like that aren’t a good bet to stay successful for the long term. I mean, you have to miss some bats.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Bill

The farm is playing at the major league level… You cant say trade everyone and then say “Don’t trade away the farm to satisfy Cox”

By DAP

September 18, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

mitchell A little overboard with that full body camouflage. You’re shooting defenseless deer, if they see you they’ll run away and then it will actually be challenging to kill it.

i wont question your machoness, but judging by your post, you might be a little ignorant of how challenging it is to keep a deer from “seeing” you.

By Goodoleboy58

September 18, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

wow is anyone watching this Cubs game? they just tied it in the 9th on a 3 run Soto HR

By AdirondackDave

September 18, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

McFann — I’m not sure if Ausmus has won gold gloves or not but he sure is deserving. If he hasn’t it’s only because he’s spent a lot of time as back-up rather first string catcher. These back-up and utility slots are really important for any club but it’s the starters that get the press and cheers. In addition to Ausmus I’d re-sign Norton for sure and I’d give both 2-3 years.

And I’d agree with whoever suggested everybody but Chipper, Mac, and Jurrgens should be considered trade bait (maybe Moylan should be added to this list.) Francoeur may come around and have a great career but at this point I’d say if he can help get us an ace, let him go. Same for Johnson. The guys who I would try to protect, if possible, would be the other young starting pitchers.

The Braves actually have a lot of assets in spite of their record this year. I expect FW to play his hand well this winter and field a serious contender in the spring.

By Grove

September 18, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!

Go Soto! Go Soto! Go Soto!

By Brian

September 18, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Same staff for ‘09? I’m shocked!!

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Braves announced today they will retain all their coaches for next season. Entire staff will be back.

Bobby Cox said: “I’m disappointed they couldn’t enjoy this season more with the work that they’ve done. They are really, really good. Good baseball people. Unfortunately none of them could pitch and we lost four starters.”

By Trade Francoeur Offseason '08

September 18, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can’t. Hit.

Howard can’t hit lefties….can’t hit….and is hitting .212/.287/.410 against them (which is bad), which is a .697 OPS.

Jeff Francoeur, for the entire 2008 season, against lefties and righties, in 558 at-bats is hitting .235/.293/.353, which is a .646 OPS.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAAA!!!

John Grove hit a freakin’ THREE-RUN HOME RUN?? CRUD!!

So now he has the same amount of home runs, and more RBI than BMac!! (86-84)

Fiddlesticks, I say! FIDDLESTICKS!!!

Dude @ 5:17—

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!

AdirondackDave—

Ausmus has won 3 GG (2001, 2002, and 2006); just looked it up on baseball-reference.com. I’d love it if the Braves got him for a BUC.

I’d definitely sigh Norton.

By Grove

September 18, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

By Grove

September 18, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

everybody but Chipper, Mac, and Jurrgens should be considered trade bait

The Braves should trade Mac for Soto! Grove’s the greatest!

By BT

September 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Where is the Blog censor? McFann just came out with a double Fiddlesticks. The Outrage!! The last Fiddlesticks was in Caps. Is the ROY Award being reconsidered?

By Jake

September 18, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Bill

You really don’t make to much sense. Yes you keep Chipper, Mac, and Jurrjens, but possibly trade away Kotchman and Escobar. These are two young affordable everyday players with plenty of room to grow. That’s why we traded away Tex after we just traded away our farm system. If you trade Esco for a SP who replaces him, Lilli. Trade Kotchman and who plays first base, Thorman. The offense is pretty much set in the infield and our focus should be in the outfield. Don’t fix what ain’t broke.

By JC from UT

September 18, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Would management ever consider moving McCann from behind the plate? Is he much too slow to play LF? This team really needs his bat in the lineup every day. Maybe 1ST? Then use Kotchman as trade bait? If the Angels do not re-sign Tex would they bring Kotchman back for Nick Adenhart? I like Mac as a catcher, its just a shame that he can’t be in the lineup every day.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

BT—

I’m sorry about that!! Really! I lost control of myself! Please forgive me!

Don’t take away my ROY Award! I’ll do better! I promise!

; )

@ 5:58 The Braves should trade Mac for Soto! Grove’s the greatest!

He is NOT!

By Barack H. Obama

September 18, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Can we believe and know that Brian McCann is the best offensive catcher in the major leagues?

Yes we cann!

Yes we cann!

Yes we cann!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 18, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Especially glad to hear Eddie and TP will be back again next yr. Thanks for the info * Carroll *

By Grove

September 18, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

G to the RO,

V to the izz E.

That’s the anthem get’cha damn hands up

G to the RO,

V to the izz E.

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Coach, your “solid back of rotation” thing really got me to thinking. When we first realized that we’d be needing starters, I was ambivalent on the whole Garland issue, but the more that I study his stats and then when I take into account that he’s going to be making 10MM+ a season, I daresay we’d have a better long-term investment value using Hanson or Morton as a 4th/5th guy. I agree with Efrim’s assessment above: you’ve gotta miss some bats. I just don’t think that he’s going to be capable of sustaining numbers worthy of a guy that will be making that kind of a salary. Garland’s K/9 ratios have been pretty much linearly falling since 2001. Check it out here

His WHIP has also been rising since 05, so if he keeps up a highish WHIP and a very low K/9, he won’t be able to absorb any kind of bad luck (i.e. giving up a high BABIP) and his ERA will suffer accordingly. To me, this just doesn’t bode well for an ever aging guy who will most likely command a large salary.

But like I’ve said before, If we run out of options we’ve almost got to take a gamble with him. If he somehow miraculously sustains an averageish ERA and eats a lot of innings, I think he would be successful but I don’t see this happening, at least not at the rate his stats are moving (see above). Like I said before, Hanson for three years at 400K is a better investment (to me) than Garland for three years at 10MM. I’d like to go after Lowe or Dempster first (although in a perfect world we’d get CC to a 4 year deal, but hey, that ain’t happening). Frank Wren’s going to have to do a lot of wheeling and dealing this offseason. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a Japanese signing as well, although I really don’t know what to think of that.

Oh, and totally agreed on Norton. Dude’s a solid bench bat.

By Tomas

September 18, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

The brewers lost again today after entering the ninth with a 4run lead. Soto had a 3run homer. The bulpen is an invaluable weapon in this day of age. I hope Soriano, and Moylan comeback next year healthy. And they resign Ohman. With Bennet, Ohman, Soriano, Moylan, Gonzo, that is a pretty good bulpen, but I hope they retain Tavarez, and Julio in case of injury.

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

JC from UT Would management ever consider moving McCann from behind the plate? Is he much too slow to play LF?

Haha…hahahahaha…Yes, maybe a little too slow to play LF!

I remember somebody once complained that Blanco was running like his glove was too heavy! Hahahahaha…

Ooohh……Not knockin’ my mann here, just bein’ realistic. You gotta remember, Corky beat him in The Race.

First base? Oh my gosh…let’s not start this again.

Yeah, it is a shame he can’t hit in the lineup everyday (like last night, I mean my goodness!). But he’s staying where he is.

(Left field……Hahahaha…)

By Bill

September 18, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

By Goodoleboy58—-I didn’t say trade them all at once. They still have alot on the farm. Some could be ready, we will have to wait until spring.

By Tomas

September 18, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

Yunel still hurting. Prado batting leadoff again and playing left field. Anderson has really struggled lately.

By Bill

September 18, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

By Jake—-Of course Kotchman & Escobar are affordable. We traded away the farm for Tex and what did it get us. Kotchman was the best that Wren could get for Tex. If the offense is set, where was it this season!!! You have seen the best of Kotchman, he won’t get much better.

By ncscoots

September 18, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Steve-OH, a guy such as Garland is the right idea for the wrong issue. If the Braves had a need for back-end starters, sure, Garland (or his ilk) could fill the bill. But the Braves don’t have that need (pick a couple of names internally, and I’d wager those names can produce a team .500 record in their starts; all you can ask for from the back of the rotation).

If Garland, or someone similar, is the top off-season signing for the starters, let’s hope that ALL the everyday guys bring their hitting shoes to April and beyond. Braves will need all the bangers and thumpers they can gather.

The top three starters have to generate 65+ team wins in their starts. I wouldn’t want to count on the likes of a Garland to contribute to that, considering the offensive question marks going into 2009. Too few Ks and too many hits.

By richbrave

September 18, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

CARROLL:

Your blush is showing. RON DARLING indeed.

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

scoots, that’s basically what I was saying. I was responding to Coach’s response to one of my previous posts.

By Jake

September 18, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Next time Bill try reading. I said the infield of our offense is set. Chipper at third(under contract) Mac catching(under contract) Escobar at SS(talented and CHEAP) Kotchman at 1st(talented and CHEAP) Johnson/Prado at 2nd(CHEAP and young). If there is anything expendable in the infield it is the 2nd base position. Kotchman has not hit in Atlanta his career numbers. Switching leagues midseason may have something to do with that and yes Kotchman was the best we could get. Tex was gonna walk in this offseason and we needed someone servicable who could play 1st base now. I wasn’t one of the people who wanted to trade the farm for Tex but we did and now we are stuck with it. Chipper is having a career year and so is Mac. Escobar is hitting .280 with 10 homers which are both better numbers than what Renteria has done this year and at a cheaper price. Kotchman you can’t really evaluate because he hasn’t been here the whole season(so how could we have seen the best of him) and while Kelly is hot of late he hasn’t been what we needed him to be most of the season but it certainly is more than what the outfield has given us. Once again I will state it for you that it is the outfield that needs fixing if we are talking about the offense(obviously we know we need starting pitching). I never said our offense was set. I said the infield was and once again I ask who you would replace them with?

By McFann Ô

September 18, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

DOUBLE!!!!! Just needs two more to get to 40!!

And now he’s one RBI behind Grove…

His AVG is an even .300!!

Aw, Omar…

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

too funny. the big board just showed these two guys with mccain and obama masks on dancing. hysterical.

By keylargo

September 18, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Bill

I don’t know how you can judge Kotchman on about 100 AB’s after being traded from a WS contender to the Braves in mid season.

In 2007 and 2008 with the Angels he hit .296 and .287 in about 400 AB’s.

He stats suggest he will be an asset offensively in 2009.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

richbrave, not near as red-faced as i was the day this spring darling sat down beside me in the press box in port st. lucie. if he only knew!

By braves70

September 18, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Hey we are close to breaking another 100 year record. Joe Simpson just said that if the Phillies win tonight, the Braves will have lost every home game to a league opponent for the first time since 1909 when the Cubs did it to them. The Cubs last won the World Series in 1908. Everything seems to be lining up.

By keylargo

September 18, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Carroll

This is off subject, but I have looked and can not find any information on how Scott Spiezio is doing. Have you heard anything? I know he is not playing baseball.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

first homer as a brave, casey kotchman. Sept. 18. mark it down.

By ncscoots

September 18, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

that’s basically what I was saying. I was responding to Coach’s response to one of my previous posts.

Ah. Gotcha. That would explain it, LOL.

On another completely different note, is there ANYBODY still left here who admits to posting (at the time) that the Tex trade was good? Except for the usual stand-up posters, I mean. If all the folks who now say they hated the trade at the time, actually did, I believe I must have missed all those posts saying so (for the record, my only complaint about the trade was the inclusion of Andrus).

By BravesFanInRockies

September 18, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Sooo glad to see Casey finally hit a dinger. He’s come around nicely since returning from bereavement.

And Josh Anderson’s playing to form. Man, I hope Schaefer wins the CF job next year.

By braves70

September 18, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Say, we are already in the free agent market. They just introduced the new Gwinett Braves mascot Chopper the Chipmunk. Now we are cooking.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Speaking of McCain, I’ve heard some morons who sound serious when saying he’s too old to be president… WHAT?? I’m not an Obama supporter but at least he’s a White Sox fan and not a Cubs fan! Changing topics, why even think of trading Kotchman? Makes no damn sense unless Peavy/Halladay are involved!

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

MINOR LEAGUE AWARDS

The Braves will honor their minor league pitchers and players of the year in an on Saturday night at Turner Field. Tommy Hanson was named pitcher of the year for the entire organization, and Freddie Freeman player of the year.

Others named at each level were, listed by pitcher first, then players of the year: for Richmond, Charlie Morton and Josh Anderson; for Mississippi, Todd Redmond and Matt Young; for Myrtle Beach, Scott Diamond and Tyler Flowers; for Rome, Edgar Osuna and Jason Heyward; for Danville, David Francis and Jon Gilmore; for Gulf Coast League, Zeke Spruill and Robert Brooks; and for the Dominican Summer League, Edigson Mora and Alberto Odreman.

By keylargo

September 18, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

The worst part of the Tex trade was that we knew who his agent was before we traded for him.

I sincerely hope that JJ dumps Boras and we never have to deal with him again.

But, to this date, the trade still can not really be judged. Salty certainly must be a disappointment to the Rangers so far.

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Scoots, I’ll admit that I didn’t think it was a bad deal at the time.

By Jeff321

September 18, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

I wonder what Chippendale Dancer thinks about GOOse Gossage being in the booth?

McFann That would be great if McCann gets 40+ doubles!

By ncscoots

September 18, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

But, Steve, you’re one of the stand-up guys, you don’t count, LOL.

By Jake

September 18, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

In response to ncscoots

I wasn’t on the blog at the time when we decided to trade for Tex. I read them occasionally but never posted. I saw the excitement when there was the possibility of getting Tex but I never wanted to give up that many prospects. After the trade I went to the 1st game Tex played in and admitted to myself that I was wrong(especially with the way Mahay pitched). I accepted the trade for what it was even though it did not work out. Just like I accept the fact that we have traded him now. Just for fun though I am willing to admit that I wasn’t crazy about the Renteria trade at the time because he had been wonderful here but I admit how truly wrong I was.

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Congrats to Kotchman one the homer!!

Yeah, I like this guy. I think he’ll be fine next year.

Don’t walk the Reaper, Mike!

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Scoots, thanks. But I did think throwing in Beau Jones was a bit much. Extortion, I say!

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Bobby Abreu 2 homers tonight against the White Sox…

I’d Much rather go after him than Burrell…

Wouldn’t Mind Seeing Dunn, because his Tape Measure shots would put a.ses in the seats…

I just do like the Idea of Dunn and Francoeur Striking out 6 out of 8 at-bats per night…Same with Burrell…

Tomahawkin, is about to go and watch some Rasslin…!

By Braveheart

September 18, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

For the Cox bashers, read this quote from Tommy Lasorda in an article I came across today for who knows what reason:

”If I was disappointed, I’d have left,” Lasorda said. ”I didn’t want to be the general manager. If I did, I’d have gone after the job. I’d been offered the general manager’s job with the Atlanta Braves after the 1985 season and I was offered the general manager’s job with the Yankees the year before that. But I turned them both down. My devotion and dedication to the Dodgers wouldn’t allow me to leave.”

The last three years have sucked and I believe it’s time to move on but do you think the last quarter century or so would have been anywhere near as good for the Braves if Lasorda had been the one to get that job instead of Cox? I don’t think so.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEEDE1531F930A15753C1A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Jeff321—

Sure would!!

By Andres cousin

September 18, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Anders is doing the tomahak dance as I type this!! He has lost 15 lbs due to his nerves!! It’s sad to watch he and his Mets self-destruct like they have.

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Dang! .294 with RISP! Hard to tell if that woulda been ball four…pretty close to the plate, and just above the knees.

His AVG for the year remains at .300.

By Jeff321

September 18, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

What is this “shift” crap on McCann?!

How long has this been going on?

By ncscoots

September 18, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

I just do like the Idea of Dunn and Francoeur Striking out 6 out of 8 at-bats per night…Same with Burrell…

Except, of course, Francoeur has only struck out 8 times all month. And has hit .280+ with an OBP around .350…

Unfortunately, the guy will probably have to have an All-Star first half next year to remove the stench from some bloggers’ noses. If then. Merely-good probably won’t do it. :-)

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Jeff321—

The Fillies do that a lot. I don’t remember when that started, but it’s been going on for a while.

Dawgonit!! A homer from Pat the Bat and now a double by the Reaper…

And we’re losing…

By Wayne

September 18, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Anybody interested in grading some of the outfield free agents on their defensive prowess?

Ibanez, Abreu, Dunn, Burrell, and any others??

By JimD

September 18, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

I am wondering if Prado is auditioning for his starting position next year?

By Jeff321

September 18, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I guess the Phillies think McCann is Ryan Howard. You don’t put a shift on the offensive stud! He can hit to all fields.

With that said, I am very surprised Escobar has more hits than McCann this year in less games played.

By Interested Observer

September 18, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

There was a discussion on here the other day as to why the Braves can’t ever seem to beat the Phillies or the Nationals. Could it be nothing more than mere coincidence that the Phillies bench coach is Jimy Williams and the Nationals bench coach is Pat Coralles?

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Efrim, from what i understand Derek Lowe would like to play for Bobby Cox. that might outweigh trying to get to the most competitive team.

keylargo, honestly haven’t heard anything on spiezio. hope he’s hanging in there.

By Wayne

September 18, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

I see so few games, I must rely on the opinions of others on which of these outfielders are the better fielders. I have heard nothing good about ANY of the 4 listed.

Would Dunn be a suitable first baseman?

Personally, I would love to see some projections as to how many runs are given away by certain players and their defense. We have seen this first hand this year with guys like Blanco and Infante in the outfield.

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I’m Going for Ibanez and Dunn, Not To mention Endy Chavez would be good off the bench as well as being a spot-starter in the Outfield…

Burrell is gonna be overpriced for a streaky hitter who’s range and speed continue to decline as he gets older…

By Bill

September 18, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

By keylargo—-If the Braves want another Adam LaRoche, well they have him.

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Dang! An error? Shoot…

That gets us another run, but it’s not an RBI and his AVG and OBP go down…

By Wayne

September 18, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Corky Miller 086, Clint Sammons 163.

Oh, the decisions to be made….. Ah, we have settled on Choice A.

The real question is, do you switch the pitchers and catchers positions in the batting order, or does it really matter?

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

ncscootsYour 8:45 post

” Except, of course, Francoeur has only struck out 8 times all month. And has hit .280+ with an OBP around .350…”

What do you expect from Francoeur at this point of the season???

The pressure of the big games is off, now he can do is focus on not being as aggressive as he was earlier in the year…

You know as well as I know if the braves were still in the race he would still be the same unproductive hitter he was in the first half…

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

I didn’t see the play that Rollins made that put McCann on base, so I can’t really say this intelligently, but I’m gonna say it anyway:

Maybe they’ll change it to a hit and give him his RBI! They did the opposite once—they took his hit away and gave Belliard an error!

OK, sorry. Just needed to let that out.

By Random

September 18, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

McFann: “So…you don’t like Ausmus, do you?”

Didn’t say that — just reminding you of something you should already know yourself — namely, Gold Gloves in and of themselves mean little.

By the way, on the radio in the 1st when Infante grounded out to the pitcher, Pete said something like “And Cole Hamels with the kick-save!”

(-8

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

T’hawkin, I don’t know if the pressure is off for Frenchy. I mean, he’s having a terrible year, and he’s gotta be thinking that if he doesn’t pick it up soon he’s going to get traded. Same for Kelly. I’d say that would weigh a lot heavier on a guy than a pennant race (especially Francoeur).

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Aw, heck…They did change an error, but not Rollins’…

Shucks…

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Random Didn’t say that…

I know. I was just kiddin’ you because of the guys you used for comparisons.

I know what you mean about GG, but heck, wouldn’t it be fun to have a GG catcher?

Pete said something like “And Cole Hamels with the kick-save!”

That’s funny.

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Now the Gameday has the ball Johnson hit as an error again…What’s going on here?

And Joe said that they should change that to a hit for McCann. I saw the replay, and yeah, Rollins was goin’ pretty far out. Kinda unfair to give him an error on that play, right? I mean, come on!

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Someone Mentioned trading with Texas for Nelson “Nellie” Cruz to play leftfield…

I like that Idea, because he would be a cheap option if the braves F.O. Gets outbidded for Obanez and Abreu…

Cruz has clowned in the Minors over his minor league career, and since Texas needs pitching I’m sure the Braves F.O. can work something out…

Oh and If need-be throw Kevin Millwood in there too, Insetad of Lowe…I’d rather see Millwood back in the “A” than Lowe…

By Random

September 18, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin: “The pressure of the big games is off, now he [Francoeur] can do is focus on not being as aggressive as he was earlier in the year… … You know as well as I know if the braves were still in the race he would still be the same unproductive hitter he was in the first half…”

Well, I for one don’t know that. This is the first time I’ve ever heard that Francoeur’s problems were due to CHOKING or PRESSURE, and it is (imo) a significantly ignorant and pernicious rewriting of the record.

In other words, my friend, you are so full of siht that it was funny at first, then it wasn’t funny at all, and now it’s hilarious!!!

By braves70

September 18, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Braves go 0 for 2008 vs Phillies at home. 0-9. Pathetic!

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Another 1-run loss…CheeseWhiz!!!

Worst braves team I’ve seen, at least the 90 braves had a Young Justice, Glavine, Smoltz, and Gant…

This go-round We have a roster filled with Jubroni’s who don’t care if we get Clowned by a division rival…

Anyone know the last time we went winless against a team at home…Unbelieveable…

Time to get back to watchin Rasslin…

By Couch Tater

September 18, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

McFann your 9:46

I unfortunately and humbly disagree. ( but Joe Simpson did his best to lobby the official scorer.)

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Random, Since I’m in such a good mood, I’m gonna let that last staement slide…

I say he was choking…he was pressing himself in the big games earlier in the year…

Now that the games don’t mean anything since this team is now trying (or lack thereof) to avoid the toilet in the division, he has become more relaxed at the plate a lot more than he was before the all-star break…

So S.T.F.U. if you can not do anything on this blog other than trying start static with others on the blog, unless its the mets fans who are only on here when they’re team is on a roll…

By McFann :Ô:

September 18, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater—

Well, you’re entitled to your own opinion (at least you’re being humble about it. Nice goin’.). I gotta tell ya, I’d want it to be a hit no matter what man of ours hit it.

And if this were the last game of the season, I’d be especially ticked off, because it put him at .299, and they shorted him an RBI.

This is at least the second time they’ve called an error on what should have been a hit for him. Maybe it won’t matter in the long run.

Night, all.

By N Nine

September 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

THE CHIPPER JONES UPDATE:

Chipper 1-3 .365

Pujols 1-3 HR .354

Scratch another day- another day closer to BA title-another one run loss day—someone needs to liable for ALL these one run losses!

By Jake

September 18, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

As pathetic as it might look(our record at the Ted against the Phillies) it really doesn’t matter. Our season was over anyway. We didn’t really help the phils as they only have a half game lead and now they go to play a very hot Marlins team. We still may have a chance to play spoiler to them next week depending on how we fare against the Mets. I think this division comes down to the Marlins since they play the Mets again to end the season.

By Brian

September 18, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

How in the world does a team (Phillies) that does not have one player hitting .300 beat our asses almost every game? Yeah, they got power and speed, but but my God, THIS IS PATHETIC!!! I’m glad KJ finally gets going when the damn season’s over! He’s fighting for a job and I’m nowhere near convinced he’ll carry that fight into next year, if he’s still with them!! It’s all about proving yourself- WHEN IT REALLY COUNTS!!

By Lou Vales

September 18, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

You &%^$#&^%$#* Morons deserve your ONE !!!! World Series Championship when you can actually be stupid enough to pull for Lawrence “Chipper” Jones to win a batting title.

Last of the 9th, two outs, down a run and your HERO at the plate. Anybody believe Lawrence “chipper” Jones out of the Bolles School in Jacksonville is going to look for a pitch on the inside part of the plate to try to actually DRIVE towards right field?? Or do you think he will try to get his bat on the ball to get a single?? Look at the at bat.

Lawrence Jones would make Old Timers grimace!! NOW that he has that nice lead in the batting race, WATCH very closely for the INEVITABLE injury that you know is coming. The injury that shuts him down for the season. Wait For It!!

When you lie down with dogs.

By N Nine

September 18, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Our season was over anyway. We didn’t really help the phils as they only have a half game lead

HUH? if we sweep the Phills they would be 2 1/2 back..so what are you talking about?

By Tomas

September 18, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Three good at bats for frenchy but had bad luck. Good defense by the phillies won this game for them, and bad defense for the Braves lost it. But Kelly was outstanding today, maybe he should do does errors(like the dp missed yesterday) more often to make him feel guilty and play good defense like today.

By Random

September 18, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin: “I say he was choking…he was pressing himself in the big games earlier in the year…”

You’re the only one who is saying that — and you never said it at the time. I cordially invite you to prove me wrong.

I repeat, you’re rewriting history.

Of all the myriad theories about his poor performance (pseudo-sophomore slump, stance, grip, over-aggressiveness, poor strike zone recognition, bad eye, hard-headedness, he-was-never-that-good-anyway, etc, etc, etc), I never heard word one about him choking under the pressure of a division race or in a “big” game. (Really, how “big” are any games in Apr/May/Jun?)

(Now, I will admit, that he probably felt more and more pressure to perform as he time and time and time again failed to do so. Especially with the bases loaded. But that’s not what you were saying, is it?)

And please note, he did not choke under the pressure of the Braves’ 2005 division race or in the “big” games at the end of that season. Or did he? Discuss.

It is to laugh.

“Start static”? I’m merely taking issue with and disputing your silly position that Francoeur chokes. One that you wrote on an open blog.

If you cannot support your baseless assertions, perhaps it is you who should … you know.

By Jake

September 18, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Point being N Nine if they would have swept us along with the Nats sweeping the Mets the Mets are 2 1/2 games back and if we continue to play well against the mets like we have all year we would be helping them, the phillies. They swept us and they only gained a game and its a measly half game lead, but I suppose you would rather us have helped the mets by winning tonight so they could have the half game lead.

By LAWL

September 18, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

I’m glad KJ finally gets going when the damn season’s over! He’s fighting for a job and I’m nowhere near convinced he’ll carry that fight into next year, if he’s still with them!! It’s all about proving yourself- WHEN IT REALLY COUNTS!!

Well yeah, but Prado was only good in August of this season—the only time in Prado’s entire professional career, both majors and minors, that he has been any good—and the Braves were out of it then. Should that count as meaningful?

By N Nine

September 18, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales

Your probably the BIGGEST moron i have ever seen on this blog period. Your stupid comments are backed by information that is false. It’s LARRY…dumbo..do yourself a favor and jump off a bridge cause noone cares what you say.

By Lou Vales

September 18, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Lawrence has hit 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! homers since the break.

Now I will ask you guys—and girls—-Do You Think The Atlanta Braves Needed A Little More Than 3 HR’s Since The Break From Their Future Hall of Famer??

Jones should go into the Hall wearing a cap from the Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins!!

By Brian

September 18, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales- Are you a Philly or Mut fan? You’re ignorant mouth is only as good as your fingers typing!! You’re a PU!!! and you know it!! You can come on here and diss us all you want but the truth is you’re a FOOL if you think anything you say is true!! LOSER!!

By JEB

September 18, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales Lay down the paper bag and spray can and back away, man! You’ve been huffing on that thing way too long!

By Random

September 18, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin: “you can not do anything on this blog other than trying start static with others “

Well, I’ve read every comment you’ve posted here today, and I’d be happy to stack my contributions up against yours.

If you haven’t read all of mine yet, feel free to do so before you make any additional half-axed accusations about what I post here.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Some insight from Mike Hampton on the home run pitch to Pat Burrell, which I thought was interesting:

“I threw a sinker he was way out in front of,” Hampton said. “My thought process was that since he didn’t look so good on that, he’d be looking for it. So I tried to throw a four-seamer away. I thought it was a decent pitch. It was down. It wasn’t on the corner, but it was outer third. But obviously he was looking for it and knocked the crap out of it.”

And oh by the way, the Phillies went 9-0 at Turner Field this season the first time that’s ever happened to an Atlanta Braves team. The last time this franchise lost a season-series of nine or more games at home was in 1909 when the Boston Doves lost 11 games to the Cubs.

By Chop Chop

September 18, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Boston Doves, eh?

I guess the Phils went all Dove Commander on the olive branch-bearing Atlanta Doves this year…

By Random

September 18, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin: ““I say he [Francoeur] was choking…he was pressing himself in the big games earlier in the year…””

Your insane theory would also apply to Kelly Johnson, and maybe even Yunel Escobar, since the “facts” are the same in both (or perhaps all three) cases.

Does KJ choke in division races and big games? Does Escobar?

A word to the wise-axe: seek consistency in your positions.

By Steve from OH

September 18, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Chipper has a .926 OPS since the allstar break, including a .456 OBP and a .470 SLG. I’d say this hall-of-famer has contributed more than his fair share since the break, wouldn’t you?

By Brian

September 18, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

LAWL- Good point about Prado but KJ has had more time to prove his consistancy in MLB than Prado has.

By keylargo

September 18, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

You have seen the best of Kotchman, he won’t get much better. BILL

If the Braves want another Adam LaRoche, well they have him. BILL

Bill Adam LaRoche has 30 doubles, 22 HR’s, an OPS of about .840 and is hitting .271. I certainly hope that would be acceptable to you because only Brian McCann and CJ have better numbers than that on the Braves.

By Lou Vales

September 18, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Hey Brian, 14 Division Championship Banners, 3 Hall of Fame pitchers for most of their prime, playing in a weak division with 2 teams that are basically “PENNILESS” for most of the Braves “run”, one of the greatest switch hitters of all time, a great center fielder for about 12 of those Banners, quality line-ups, pretty good benches, not dominant—but good bullpens———-AND ALL of that translates to ONE!!!!!!! less World Championship then the Florida Marlins. And I would point out that one franchise has been around since 1966 and one since 1993. Guess which one has won more World Series”” I’ll help, it’s the one with:

No Stadium No Fans No Big TV Deal Basically No Owner

Now you can call me a “loser”, But outside of the environs of Atlanta and certain pockets of the Southeast, PLEASE—Know that the Atlanta Braves are seen as chokers of almost mythical proprtions AND now epitomized by a guy who gets hurt because: (1)Hotel bed is uncomfortable (2)Ball attacks him in a batting cage (3)Running down the line (4)Swinging the bat (5)Check swinging (6)Getting out of bed (7)Playing with his kids

Those are just off the top of my head. Just REALIZE, that if LARRY Jones gains a little bigger lead in this batting race, he will shut it down with a phantom injury faster than Michael(or is it Mike??) Vick will pass on an ASPCA donation.

By N Nine

September 18, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

no need to prove chipper has contributed! He is the best hitter in MLB. So what he hasn’t hit many HR in last two months, that doesn’t take away anything from the future Hall of famer. The last two months he has missed time, focused on hitting, and his team’s downfall has really affected him. He is not as “chipper” as last year. Chipper is a true Brave and has nothing to prove. oh ya thx for more good numbers from chipper.

By Lou Vales

September 18, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

Sorry!! Just a tad fraustrated in having expected the 14 Time East Division Winning Atlanta Braves to be able to win 1!!!!!! out of 3 at home to help the little team I follow that has won MORE World Series in last 11 years than the Chicago Cubs, Cleveland Indians, Texas Rangers, Houston Astros, Milwaukee Brewers, San Francisco Giants, Washington Nats/Expos, Colorado Rockies, Tampa Rays and Atlanta Braves have won COMBINED since 1958!!!! !! Check It Out. It’s TRUE!!

But, that huge payroll of 21 Million has given them a huge edge and they didn’t deserve it anyway. Yes Sir!! I’m really a Phillies and/or “Mutts” fan.

By Mark

September 19, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

I may be wrong, and someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think we are far enough out of the race, where all our VETS (lol) need to sit and let all the young players other than Mr. Jones play to see what they can do. I may be wrong but doesn’t that make sense.We already know what everyone else CAN’T do!!! GO BRAVES

By N Nine

September 19, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

So the clown is “really a phillies and/or “mutts” fan? And his whole point is his frustrations of braves only having 1 title? wow dude, again your a lost moron and you make no sense..i wish you were banned. BY the way as of today CHIPPER JONES IS THE BEST!!! We love you chipper

By Jake

September 19, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Well Lou Vales we still must have hurt your feelings or else you wouldn’t care and be able to notice everything so pathetic about the braves. Don’t know if you are a fan of anything or just a pathetic ranter who has nothing else to do. Let me guess, maybe your Cubs fan still blaming Bartman, or phillies fan where the motto almost doesn’t count was said every year until the mets choked last year, or a mets fan where chipper has wiped his but with you since he entered the league. Can’t be a marlins fan since they don’t have any, Cardinals fans would never be as foolish as you, and Dodgers and D-backs fans or too laid back to give a crap about what we are doing over here. So which miserable team are you a fan of that we left in our wake on the way to 14 division titles, 5 league Championships, and one world series win. Yes its only one but its probably one more than your pathetic team and that first world series appearance in 91’ is just ranked as the best world series of all time. But your right who wants to be remebered for making the playoffs all those years when you can be remembered for not making the playoffs. Wait, do they remember you for that?

By keylargo

September 19, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Lou

I wish you would put all your Marlin knowledge to work and tell us some constructive things like the status of your new stadium and how you are going to keep your payroll at $21MM with 17 players eligible for arbitration.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

What day does he shut it down?? I say Wednesday if he is up by 10.

Know what would be interesting, if Pujols led race by a point with one game to play(assume Braves season was over) think he plays that last game?? Now if Larry was to lead by a point and Cards season ws over, do you think “Chipper”(Will they still be calling him that when he’s 90??) would play that game.

Be honest. Of the two, which one has the guts and integrity to play?? NO!!! I’m not a St Louis fan.

By keylargo

September 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

It sure makes me wonder about all the fuss the muts, fish and philthies are making about winning a silly ole division championship. According to them 14 aren’t worth much at all so why the todo about one?

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

I bet that the person writing this Blog can figure out what team—-besides the Yankees and Red Sox—-has won 2!!!! World Series since 1997. The Phillies/Mutts comment was facetious. I’m obviously not a Yankees or Red Sox fan because why would I care about a Braves-Phillies game. Therefore I obviously like the only team that has no fans, no stadium, no TV deal and basically no ownership YET is still only team besides the Yankees and Red Sox to have won multiple World Series since 1997. Boy this is complicated!!

By N Nine

September 19, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Don’t know if you are a fan of anything or just a pathetic ranter who has nothing else to do Jake

exactly! he wants attention! the apparent Muts fan didnt even know chipper’s real name 15 min ago! That’s all the muts fans scream when they see the Great Chipper Jones…and he didnt know…hmmmmmmmmmmmm

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

Key Largo, That team wins another World Series before the Braves whether they are in San Antonio, Las Vegas, Portland, Charlotte or Macon. They will win another World Series before the Braves with 620 people in the stands for a September afternoon game. They are a funky and great story. Key Largo, They DON’T want or need most of those arbitration eligible guys.Next year: Catcher-Baker 1B-Sanchez and McPherson in a platoon—Bye Bye Jacobs for “something” 2b-Uggla is signed—but he better cut down that swing in certain situations SS-Ramirez continues growth 3B-Sign Cantu LF-Mr X(Another Platoon) Yet To Be Known. Bye Bye Willingham and bad back CF-Maybin, his tremendous defense helps negate early offensive struggles RF-Ross to his natural position and Hermida hopefully back to Marietta to coach Wheeler High School. Rotation—(1)Johnson (2)Nolasco Both still affordable (3)Volstad (4)Sanchez (5) Miller in, Olsen GONE. Power pitchers almost ready from the minors for set-up roles to augment Nelson, Kensing, Pinto(Low maintenance cost wise). Superstar in Stanton 2 years away and a very good Dominguez two years away—Okay, 2 1/2.

I hope they NEVER build a stadium in South Florida, it’s more fun rooting for a team under these circumstances.

SMALLER PAYROLL than A-Choke.

By N Nine

September 19, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

lol Keylargo very true! We sure could use some of those players. Another fire sale is in the makings. No wonder they have no one show up. Losing Willis and Cabrera is just the beginning. Thought Time Warner was bad? HA

By Jake

September 19, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

Now hold it there Lou Vales I thought you came here to speak the truth . You mean to tell me the same guy who has come to spread the truth of how pathetic chipper and the braves are lies and there actually are Marlins fans. Could have fooled me. But I a trained psychologist as you are a trained baseball analysis must say that your frustration comes from the fact that that may be the only history that the marlins will ever have in florida since they have no fans, no stadium, no tv deal and will likely end up losing the team because it seems like nobody really gives a crap down there. I know you see the braves and say its not fare that we had all those chances. Well at least we could remember the Florida Marlins for there two world series wins because if they didn’t win them ten years down the road when they are playing somewhere else we probably wouldn’t remember them at all.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Right Again!! I didn’t know his name was Larry and not Lawrence, BUT I did know that he went to the Bolles School in Jacksonville in Duval County.

Now I know this is the South, but really!!

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

n Nine, Jake plays for the Marlins. Hint Hint.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales, why do you insist on always mentioning where he went to high school? Are you jealous? Did Bolles reject you? Were you too dumb, too poor and not athletic enough to gain admission, pay the tuition, attend and graduate from Bolles? Is that why your eyes turn Hulk green with envy each and every time you mention he went to Bolles?

How is Chipper attending Bolles any different than Pedro Alvarez attending Horace Mann for high school and Vanderbilt for college? It’s not like either one were silver spooned brats before they went there. Their intelligence, athletic ability and hard work gained them entry into schools kids of their backgrounds rarely attend. So thanks to loans, scholarships, financial aid and tough sacrifices by their family, they took full advantage of the doors opened to them because of their unique abilities. .

Isn’t that the American dream? The mother and the father work hard, make sacrifices, train and educate their children to maximize their abilities so that their kids gain entry into doors no one else in the family had ever before been allowed to enter?

And what if Chipper wasn’t just a small town redneck and Pedro wasn’t just an immigrant living in a notorious American ghetto? What if they were both just a bunch of rich private school kids from upscale towns? Isn’t that the American dream too? Once your family acquires a certain amount of wealth, you make damn sure that you and your children don’t pi$$ it all away? You retain the hell out of it and make sure your children accumulate even more wealth?

So, sorry, dude, I don’t get your repeated mentions of Bolles. It really makes you sound insanely petty and jealous and, as is usually the case with each and every one of your posts, completely out of touch.

You say sports is nothing more than a distraction for simpletons, yet you always post here and are a wannabe sportsradio host.

And, of everyone on here, you are the one who gets so easily distracted by the dumbest friggin’ thing imaginable: where an old freaking man a few years from retirement went to high school twenty friggin’ years ago! Who cares? What kind of moron thinks someone should be ashamed of graduating from somewhere that made him well educated and helped him make millions?

You’re like one of those dumb guys who watches the presidential campaign and believes that an ambitious guy from a humble background is a prissy elitist just because he took advantage of his God given intellectual abilities to graduate from the best university in the world (and to walk through all the doors that open up to someone who graduates from that place).

So spare me the jealous and childish insinuations that Chipper is some spoiled, pampered little prissy elitist summabich just because he went to Bolles. You’re the only fool dumb enough to believe that.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Jake, That is what I’m saying!!—-The Whole Situation Is A JOKE, AND YET here this group of people nobody cares about has almost as good a winning percentage as the Yankees and are still in the NL race with 10 games to play, and the team payroll is 7 million less than A-Choke. This is America!!!!! You’re not going to pull for that team—I’m not saying to pull for the area that neglects them—-but this story is getting as good as USA-USSR in hockey. If their closer had not hid an injury for over a month—they would probably be in the post season and you know what happens when the Marlins make the post season??? They have NEVER lost a post season series and have more World Series Trophies—actually 2 more—than Cubs have won in last 99 years. Pretty Good??

By Supes

September 19, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

The Braves will turn around and beat the mets 2 out of 3, or sweep them in the next 3 games. Mark my words. Oh, and Santana is lucky he doesn’t have to go 0-4 against the Braves in 2008, as he’s going to miss the 3 game set at the TED.

How will the Mets lose those games, by being exposed for the fraud that they are in their stinky bullpen.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, I lived in Palm Beach County, Never resided in Duval County, but met many people, and read many comments about the Bolles School. Most of the comments “suggested”that it was a highly “elitist” institution attended by rather pompous people. The people making these assertions all seemed to be doing quite well in life. I NEVER met anyone who went there. Now your assertions that I would somehow be “jealous” or “envious” of someone who had matriculated there would seem to suggest that possibly you have a connection with the institution. AND you seem highly put off by my mentioning the place. Until your comments, nobody could have taken from what I said, ANYTHING about the school, except Chipper went there.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

I apologize> I did let this collective group of underachieving canines get under my skin as the result of having been swept by the Phillies. I thought the 4th place Braves could win at least 1 at home so that the Poor, Pitiful marlins could have moved to more manageable 4 1/2 out of Wild Card. But not to be, AND that pitiful, putrid last at bat by arguably the greatest switch hitter that ever lived—NOT BEING FACETIOUS—irked me just a LITTLE.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

Supes, Let’s Hope So!!! But I’m not counting on it. Braveheart, Maybe a bad time to mention this—I like Obama, and NEVER bought into the “elitist” garbage.

By Jake

September 19, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

And yet what has it done for them? Cubs haven’t won in 100 years and they have one of the biggest fan followings. It took the Red Sox some time and they finally did yet there fans never left them. So what good are those two World Championships when there is nobody there to remember them. We remember the Cubs struggles because they have fans and the red sox get more attention for their two because of the nation. Who is here to tell us about the marlins. Oh wait you and who else?

By the way don’t make excuses for your team. You either win or lose. It doesn’t matter how much money you spend when you have the injuries to your pitching staff like we have this year. As a marlins fan I would expect you to know that. How many people preference the Braves struggles this year by saying well they would have won it if Smoltz wasn’t hurt or Hampton missed the first three months or Mike Gonzalez missed the first three months or Glavine missed most the season or Kotsay getting hurt when he was hot or Diaz missing most the season. That list of excuses could go on forever. I mean we could have won the world series in 96’ if ………..

By N Nine

September 19, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Tim Dierkes-mlb traderumors.com has intresting “offseason outlook” on a few things.

He did the tiger’s outlook and has them with a hefty 120M payroll that needs to be trimmed big time this offseason. Maggs has been brought up 3y 48m left(not saying good idea) intresting he points out only the braves as a possible fit for him! He did the Braves offseason outlook..and yes those 400k starting rotation is wierd but it’s just temp. I did see Justin Duchscherer get brought up. I love the guy! It’s his last year on a contract (09)on a Oakland team. We can get this guy. Folks, he lead MLB in ERA for a while(not sure anymore)(hurt). That pitcher for KC, Zack Greinke who everyone brings up, is one of the 4 names Dayton brought up as “untouchable”, plus he’s a nutcase from what i hear. Our guy is sitting in Oakland and i hope Wren makes it happen.

By ObiWanKobe

September 19, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales, I hope your Mom’s basement floods; with you in it.

By ObiWanKobe

September 19, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales = Eric Gregg

By Preparation H

September 19, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

You can’t spell “salve” with Lou Vales, and I need some on my chapped as.s

By stupid is as stupid posts

September 19, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

he only time in Prado’s entire professional career, both majors and minors, that he has been any goodLAWL

what a total crock of crap. The guy has a .300 lifetime BA and won the AAA batting title last year. Where in the h3ll did you come up with such stupid damn statements? What and idiot.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales, sorry, dude, I attended high school about 1000 miles away from Jacksonville. I have however heard Chipper and his father talk a few times on the radio here in Atlanta about his Bolles experience and how much he hated going there in the beginning, how much he didn’t fit in at first, how much poorer he was than the other kids, how often he called home wanting to quit, etc., etc. Looks like the easy life from the outside but it wasn’t easy for him if you’ve ever heard him talk about it.

AND you seem highly put off by my mentioning the place. Until your comments, nobody could have taken from what I said, ANYTHING about the school, except Chipper went there.

Dude, anyone with any level of reading comprehension could read between the lines there and obviously determine that you were inferring he’s some rich little white gloved snob b/c he want to an elite high school. Or, at least, it was obvious to me what your inference was ………..

You admitted the ulterior motive yourself when you said: met many people, and read many comments about the Bolles School. Most of the comments “suggested”that it was a highly “elitist” institution attended by rather pompous people.

Dude, one thing I’ve learned in life is that there are always elitist snobs within any collection of folks and there are always folks wrongly accusing other folks of being pompous elitist snobs and usually doing so for no reason other than fear, jealousy and ignorance. .

It’s all about who you are and how you were raised and not about where you are, where you’re from and how much money you got or came from.,,,,, and certainly not about what ridiculous high school you went to twenty friggin’ years ago ……

I’ve been in the work force for a decade now and don’t know the single name of any high school that any of my colleagues attended ………. I know the colleges and grad schools they attended but could give two sh!ts what high school they went to ………

those who obsess on what high school they went to or that others went to have usually never mentally left high school themselves

By Metropolitan Man

September 19, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this

Any bloggers going to the games this weekend? I will be there in full support of the METS so don’t try to stifle my fun with tomahawkin’. I will get to see the METS make their own playoff chances increase as they redeem themselves from the series loss last week. I can remember the METS coming to Turner in so many past Septembers only to be denied further playoff chances. The same thing happended in Shea. Finally though the METS come to town with playoff dreams while the braves finish out their nightmare season. This should make for a fun, interesting, playoff atmosphere series between the to because of the history alone. Heres to shutting down Chumper and jumping all over Jo-Jo. I hope Jo-Jo makes the braves rotation next year, that guy is impressive.

LETS GO METS!!

By Tomahawkin

September 19, 2008 4:09 AM | Link to this

Aight Metropolitan Man It’s sure is good that you wanna Holla at the Braves fans when your boyz finally win a game against at team that is last in the N.L. East Toilet…

Come on this blog again when your boys finally win a World Series…Oop’s Im sorry Y’all haven’t done that in how long…?

And Random I had just got off work when I was posting those statements about Francoeur, on offense indeed…

U seriously worked my nerve about stating that my posts were ignorant…

If I was gonna be ignorant about it then I would have been saying all kinds of stupid sh..+ about you, but I’am not like that…ya dig…?

By Metropolitan Man

September 19, 2008 4:26 AM | Link to this

Relax Tomahawkin, I never stated “Great win” by the METS last night and what a great showing by the braves last night. The METS haven’t won at the Ted all year so I’m looking forward to how they respond to playing a team that always had their number. I couldn’t count on the braves to win 1 game against the phiilthies so I didn’t blog after you got yours butts handed to you in the 1st game of the series. We know the philties own you. The only thing that brought a smile to my face is the Cubbies handled their business which in turn helped the METS. Hopefully they will have clinched by the time the METS see them thereofre playing their bench while the METS regualars continue to play towards the post season. METS won the season series from the Marlins, Nats and Philthies this year. How did you guys fare against the division?

LETS GO METS! Tear down the Ted too!

By George

September 19, 2008 6:56 AM | Link to this

GET RID OF MCDOWELL, PERIOD. YOU CANNOT AFFORD ANY MORE NEW ARMS, HE IS A DISASTER

By richbrave

September 19, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this

BRAVES fans. Leave the “JOKER” to wallow in his self-delusional dreams. BRAVES rule the METS. Payback for that “these people”, no respect garbage out of DELGADO’s mouth Saturday night. SUPES’prophasy come true. Lose three to the PHILLIES - win three from the METS.

By Tina

September 19, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

All coaches back because there not responsible for the injuries. Ok so whos responsible for all the no hitting and 1 run losses. Certainly not the hitters OR the hitting coach. I was hopeing this would be it for the Pendleton era and his cloaning machine. He has only hurt these hitters and we cant have another year of this. Expecially when Cox has to intervien and do his job. Sad really that the braves cant find good players or good coaches.

By Jeff Spicoli

September 19, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

I know the colleges and grad schools they attended but could give two sh!ts what high school they went to

Hey Dude, you are so right on. When I was at Ridgemont High, I didn’t even know what high school I was in so why would it matter now?

By jmart1951

September 19, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Its seems somehow appropriate that on the day we lose the last home game with the Phillies to go 0-9 for the year it is announce that the whole coaching staff is returning next year.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Francoeur has never been a great hitter. So when he’s unlucky, he’s going to go beyond not great stats to downright awful stats.

Remember in Francoeur’s best full season so far in his young career, he posted a .338 OBP and a .444 SLG.

His career numbers coming in to this season: .280/.320/.463

When a .280/.320/.463 hitter is unlucky, he may put up something like a .235/.293/.353 line.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

metro man ill be at the game on saturday night. were gonna knock you guys around real nice this weekend…youll be in 2nd place in the wild card race by the time you leave.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Hey Jake, The players remember it, and that is who I pull for. I don’t root for the fan bases—or lack of same. Anyone who doesn’t think it pretty cool that a team with a 21.8 Million dollar payroll is 5 1/2 out in the NL East——Well, they would have probably pulled for the USSR against the USA in Lake Placid. AND I’m not making ANY excuses for where they are, I just find it hilrious that they have almost the same record as the Yankees. In fact I was disappointed with Hanley’s 70 million extension. That takes the fun and hilarity out teams like the Brewers choking like dogs every year while forking over prospects for guys who will dump them after 2 months.

Let’s not pull for Tampa and what they’ve done BECAUSE not enough FANaticS show up for their games. Well, they have shown up for Cub games for past 99 years. How has that worked out?? Think the 99 year old in the nursing facility who started following the Cubs 14 years before Great Depression has a lot of good memories about FINISHING a season watching his or her team holding a trophy??

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Can anyone offer up a good reasons why the coaching staff should not be back? I haven’t heard much reasonable argument.

By richbrave

September 19, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I do contend that this group of coaches will be history when COX leaves unless BRAVES rebound into the playoffs prior to that date. They have presided over a decline in BRAVES fortunes. Appearances will dictate new blood along with a new skipper. I do believe the future coaches will be from within the organization.

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

MetMan Any bloggers going to the games this weekend?

Yeah, we’re gonna go tonight…that is, if they have any tickets left.

Where will you be sitting? I’m just asking so I’ll be sure to tell my Dad to not get seats in that area…

I will be there in full support of the METS so don’t try to stifle my fun with tomahawkin’.

Uh…Sorry. It’s our home park. We cann Chop all we want!

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Anyone who doesn’t think it pretty cool that a team with a 21.8 Million dollar payroll is 5 1/2 out in the NL East——Well, they would have probably pulled for the USSR against the USA in Lake Placid.

I don’t know about that. The 1980 Soviet Olympic hockey team was probably even poorer than a bunch of US college hockey players. If you root for or against a team based on payroll, maybe you would root for a Soviet team.

I think it’s pretty silly to root for a team based on payroll. The reason the Marlins have a low payroll is because their ownership doesn’t feel it’s worth it (to a certain extent they are right).

And all the young players on teams like the Marlins probably make a lot more money than we do, and would take and will take huge pay raises as soon as they get the opportunity.

Let’s not pretend low-paid teams are shining examples of nobility just because they have lots of young players who haven’t had the opportunity to make big bucks.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Tim Dierkes from MLBtraderumors.com:

As Henning notes, the Tigers may need to trade Ordonez to slice payroll down to the $100MM range. Maggs is the team’s highest-paid player, and he has a fine .892 OPS. Ordonez essentially comes with a three-year, $48MM contract. Certain teams might find that contract acceptable, but not if the price also includes quality young players. The Braves might be a good match if the Tigers are mainly looking for salary relief.

I brought this up a little while back, what does everyone think of trading for Maggs and throwing him in left field? Ordonez is owed 18 million next season with options based on performance, plate appearences, for 2010 and 2011. Personally, I don;t like the free agent corner bats. I don’t think Ordonez is as bad an outfielder as Dunn and Burrell, and with this deal, he is only going ot cost you 3 seasons and 48 million, at most. Yes, 16 million per is no small amount, but it might be better than giving Pat Burrell 4 years and 60 million. Tigers need a shortstop. We have on in Brent Lillibridge. I’m sure we would need to give up more, but if we eat ALL of his salary, I’m not sure we’d have to give up THAT much more. Lillibridge and Reyes? It would probably take more. Thoughts?

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 19, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I only need one single reason as to why Bobby Cox shouldn’t be managing in 2009.

Jeff Francoeur.

IF ANY OTHER MANAGER would have kept running frenchy out to RF all season and batting him fifth, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED.

Bobby Cox gets baseball’s version of the get out of jail free card in this regard.

There is no accountability in the Braves clubhouse and everybody knows it. Bobby Cox will be managing in 2009 and the upcoming season is already doomed.

And that my friend, is totally unreasonable and unfair for the fans.

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Shucks, they didn’t change it to a hit…Oh well…que será será.

By Random

September 19, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

richbrave: “I do contend that this group of coaches will be history when COX leaves unless BRAVES rebound into the playoffs prior to that date… . I do believe the future coaches will be from within the organization.”

Am I missing something here? Or is it just your way of sayin that you do believe that the Braves will make it back to the playoffs before Cox’s departure?

Shaun: “Can anyone offer up a good reasons why the coaching staff should not be back? I haven’t heard much reasonable argument.”

Someone on another blog had these (imo) relevant questions:

“and now, baseball coaches ‘cannot be blamed for all the pitching injuries’ … and what does that have to do the inability to bunt? or to throw to the right base? or hit the cutoff man? OR TO EMPLOY DISCIPLINE AT THE PLATE?”

[Or to know how many outs there are? Or how to catch flies and pop-ups with both hands? Or how to slide, Triple Mac?]

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Random Or how to slide, Triple Mac?

You mean you didn’t like his belly-flop? Aw, c’mon, man! That was tremendous!

Or were you referencing his first stolen base of the year? The one he stole standing up?

; )

By GT

September 19, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

“You can’t play for a better manager than Bobby,” said Norton, who will be a free agent. “And the players that they have in this organization, you can’t ask for any more than that.”

What a joke. Why is this stuff even printed?

By DAP

September 19, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Efrim i think ordonez is absolutley perfect for us. i like him way better than dunn or burrell, because he has the same OBP and slg% without stiking out a ton. plus hes right handed. the salary isnt an issue at all to me. more of an issue is the players wed have to give up. i would want to be careful with that, but mags is just what the doctor ordered, dude.

do this deal, braves. get mags.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

GT they allow your pointless, mindless opines to post, as well. clearly, standards are low.

By AdirondackDave

September 19, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Efrim — Yes, I agree that Mags would be a fine addition to the lineup. Remember though, that they’ve already got the best (youngest) years of his free agency signing without giving up established players. His age is now a potential negative factor but the option years are a attractive. If the Braves (or anyone else) takes on the entire salary I don’t think much else would be required. They could toss in Lillibridge ‘cuz the Tigers do need a SS. Pitchers also? Not unless the Tigers eat some of that salary, that’s the way I would come at this deal if I were on the Braves side of the table.

By Random

September 19, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Shaun: “Can anyone offer up a good reasons why the coaching staff should not be back? I haven’t heard much reasonable argument.”

Well, coincidentally enough, Brian McCann has some tangential thoughts on the subject:

CR: “The Phillies are 13-2 against the Braves this season, five of which they’ve won by one run… . [E]xplain why.”

3BMac: “You’ve got to tip your hat to their GM, their coaches … They’ve got a good squad over there. There’re no holes. They pitch, they play defense and they hit.”

Which the Braves do only sporadically. And which Fillies’ skills Triple Mac ascribes (partially, at least) to their coaches.

So might the Braves’ lack of these skills also be (at least) partially ascribed to their coaches?

PS: MacEff — I loved the belly flop — it truly was tremendous. And stupendous. And up-end-ous.

(-8

By David O'Brien

September 19, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Tigers need a shortstop. We have on in Brent Lillibridge. I’m sure we would need to give up more, but if we eat ALL of his salary, I’m not sure we’d have to give up THAT much more. Lillibridge and Reyes? It would probably take more. Thoughts?Efrim

Since I don’ believe Braves are going to be in running for $20-mill-a-year CC or Sheets (and Sheets’ current injury is precisely why Braves, of all teams, should NOT be in run of his services), I don’t think it’s so crazy to think they might be interested in Magglio.

But that three-year thing, that’s a concern if Braves also plan to give Francoeur a chance to be a long-term guy in right. Because they you’ve blocked both corner OF spots for a few years, when Heyward could be ready in two years.

But given that Heyward just turned 19 last month, he’ll still be extremely young for majors in a couple of years. So that’s not a major problem.

HOWEVER, I’d be very surprised if Lillibridge alone got it done. Tigers are not going to be ready to pencil him in as their every-day SS next season, at least I don’t think they would. And Reyes? Please. At this point, he’s got a lot to prove before other teams are going to be salivating to get him.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

random another reason that the phils have beaten the braves so much, often in close games…they hit homers. home runs turn around baseball games in a hurry. the braves havent been able to make big comebacks or put other teams away that often because they dont hit the ball out as much.

By David O'Brien

September 19, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales: Quite a night/morning of blogging by you. You watch and react to a regular-season sporting event involving a team long since out of postseason contention a bit, uh, differently than most folks watch said event.

Decompress, my man. (Oh, and sorry about whatever caused the personal issue you have with graduates of a private school in Jax.)

By spotts

September 19, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Shaun, are you serious?? Why SHOULD the coaches be back? What are we…1-29 in one run losses on the road? Francoeur’s batting 230. Kotchman was hitting .290 before he came to Atlanta. You don’t lose that many one run games with good coaching. And you don’t see your offense remain impotent over an entire season with good coaching (TP…)

It’s just mind-blowing that Bobby says all of this is a result of the injuries and not the coaching. Most of the injuries were to the starting rotation. There were some to the bullpen, but we still had Ohman and Gonzalez.

My biggest beef is with the offense. On opening day the heart of our lineup consisted of Chipper, Teixeira, McCann, and Francoeur. How did that turn out? How can Chipper be batting .365 and not even have 90 RBIs? Hitting “coach.” But Bobby’s way too loyal and will stick with TP even after he goes blind.

By Random

September 19, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

McFann :Ô:: “Or were you referencing his first stolen base of the year? The one he stole standing up**?”

Wasn’t that ascribed to “defensive indifference”? If not, then that “error” by Rollins is simply karmic payback — what goes around, comes around. Win some, lose some. Etc.

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Random So might the Braves’ lack of these skills also be (at least) partially ascribed to their coaches?

Maybe. But DAP made a good point about homers. The coaches can’t make the guys hit more homers…They can’t swing the bats for them.

PS: MacEff — I loved the belly flop — it truly was tremendous. And stupendous. And up-end-ous.

That’s for sure! Too bad the Braves’ website didn’t think so…

Maybe after the last game of the season, they’ll re-show all of the season’s highlights on Braves aren’t quite aLive (it shouldn’t take too long, right?).

Anyway, if they do show the highlights, that Triple dang-well better be in the Top Two!!

By DAP

September 19, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB i dont see getting mags for three years being a problem either. alot can happen in a few years, and if it comes to the point where heyward is definetly ready, we can cross that bridge then. we could trade mags again, maybe jeff will be even worse then, or maybe heyward will have been moved to first base. you never know. we cant just play blanco in left field for years while we wait for heyward.

i think if mags is gettable, we absolutly need to get him. he is, in my opinion, the PERFECT fit for us. hes exactly what we need.

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Random—

No defensive indifference. It was a steal.

If not, then that “error” by Rollins is simply karmic payback — what goes around, comes around.

Yeah, but that’s not the first time that’s happened this year…They took a hit away from him against Washington on July 19 (practically a whole month after the stand-up steal) and made it an error on Belliard.

Maybe he’ll get some real hits tonight to break that nasty 0-8 that he’s sporting this year when we’re at the game.

By Random

September 19, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

DAP: “another reason that the phils have beaten the braves so much, often in close games…they hit homers. home runs turn around baseball games in a hurry.”

Good point — I do not disagree. (Especially if you issue a couple of walks in front of them.)

Just thought it was interesting to hear what was apparently one of the first things to come to a (fairly sharp) player’s mind when asked why the Fillies had so dominated the Braves — “their coaches”.

Or would you consider that to be just an automatic, formulaic response to that type of question?

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Yes, Reyes wouldn’t be more than a throw in at this point. To be honest, Charlie Morton probably wouldn’t be considered more than that either. So in evaluating what the Braves could trade for Magglio, it seems as though Tommy Hanson would have to be included in a deal to get him. If that is the case, then no, we absolutely can’t do that. This team can’t trade what little upper level pitching they have.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

random i dont think heap’s answer was formulaic at all, i do think, though, that you might be reading into it. i doubt brian’s intention was to hint that the braves coaches werent good, or even that they werent AS good as the phillies coaches. i think brian was just giving a good team credit for being good.

By Random

September 19, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

In his current blog, Joe Posnanski casually drops this bombshell:

“He [Jose Guillen] had a hot streak for the ages in mid-season, and he has been hitting about .390 the last three weeks or so, and even so he is at the moment tied for 45th among Major League outfielders OPS+ (only 54 outfielders have enough at-bats to qualify) and 52nd in on-base percentage (ahead only of Jeff Francoeur, who I predict will be a Royal soon, and Carlos Gomez, who is 22 and at least plays a mean center field).”

Maybe that was just tongue-in-cheek, KC-deprecating humor?

Has anyone else heard anything?

By 22oz

September 19, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

But would Magglio have to cut his perm to play for Bobby? I would think so, although its not nearly as horrible as Corky Miller’s mustache. But the mustache is working, its getting him playing time over Sammons, who is supposed to be getting experience right now. Wonder how Wren feels about that.

As for JoJo in a trade, i believe the Tigers already have a dysfunctional lefty in Dontrelle Willis. Unless they wanna send JoJo down to A ball with the D-train to learn how to not trip over himself in the windup.

By McFann :Ô:

September 19, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

DAP i doubt brian’s intention was to hint that the braves coaches werent good, or even that they werent AS good as the phillies coaches. i think brian was just giving a good team credit for being good.

I agree.

They are good…dawgonit.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I like Mags and we sure could use him but he scares me a bit ……….. his numbers fell so hard in 2004, 2005, and 2006 ……… i would hate for the Braves to be on the hook for $50 million but get results more like those seasons than the last two. He is 34.

But the Braves aren’t likely to get the ideal guy either ……….. there’s gonna be a flaw/risk with almost any guy the Braves get this offseason, whether that be age, injury or whatever. It’s likely there is gonna be something wrong with whomever they get that makes him undervalued.

That’s why I’d lean more to the Mike Cameron, Mark Ellis and Brian Giles kind of free agents ….. guys with average or slightly better or worse bats who are undervalued because the overall value they bring with their defense isn’t loved or financially rewarded enough.

Since the Braves are highly likely to get pitchers this offseason that are too reliant upon the mercy of their defenders, it would make sense to get merciful defenders who save runs

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

If you were the Tigers owner and your GM came into the office and said we just traded Gorkys, Jair and Mags for Edgar, JoJo and The Bridge, how long would it take you to fire the GM?

By Random

September 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

DAP: “i dont think heap’s answer was formulaic at all, i do think, though, that you might be reading into it.”

No doubt — that’s definitely likely. But am I reading too much into it?

“i doubt brian’s intention was to hint that the braves coaches werent good, or even that they werent AS good as the phillies coaches.”

Well, of course not. But, “from the mouths of babes” and “in vino, veritas” and “you catch a fish by his mouth” (a Filipina adage), etc.

“i think brian was just giving a good team credit for being good.”

I’m happy to go with that intepretation ‘til we hear something different. Which I doubt we will.

(But he did specifically mention “their coaches” …)

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Started following the Tigers in 56—-adopted the Marlins upon inception——IF Dave Dumbo does another trade with the Braves, the good citizens of Detroit—Facetious—-would run him out of town Southern Style.

Efrim, Run that Lillibridge and Reyes scenario past the people at the Tigers Forum at detroitnews.com. Yes Sir!! Dave appears on TV and proudly announces “We have traded 2(possible) time AL Batting Champion to the Braves for Lillibridge and Reyes”. He should have a team of Navy Seals when he appears at the press conference.

By Bill

September 19, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

I agree, Mags is what the Braves need. What about this trade- B.Jones,Reyes, Morton,Parr,Escobar and Flowers for Mags & Verlander, Braves paying entire salary. I know the tigers wouldn’t make this trade but if they would, jump on it. The Tigers need a young catching prospect. Then sign Lowe and trade Francouer, Kotchman and a low level prospect to giants for Cain. Pitching,Pitching, they need pitching. Sign another outfielder and a fill in first baseman(Sexson)

By Brian

September 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

How about B.Jones,Lillibridge,Locke,and Morton for Ordonez? Too much or not enough?

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales

Here is the thing. If you are a Tigers fan that keeps up with the team, you know that they are cutting payroll by AT LEAST 40 million. They have A LOT of untradeable pieces. Far too many actually. So, while Ordonez is important to their success in 2009 and 2010, he is also the easiest way to cut payroll. On the hook for 18 million next season.

Look, I threw Reyes and Lillibridge out there. It’ll definetly take more than that. But Mags to the Braves makes sense…..for the Braves at least.

And to your point about the Tigers blogs and what not, say they hear Tommy Hanson, Brent Lillibridge and Brandon Jones…..I’m pretty sure that won;t get them jumping for joy either bro. Hanson is no sure thing, not too many prospects are. But the Tigers are in this situation because they made dumb trades and free agent signings and invested in players that were ALWAYS overhyped(Dontrelle Willis and Jeremy Bonderman) They are cutting payroll, when you decide to do that, winning is obviously not your priority.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

bravehear about getting mags…those years you cited were injury year where he didnt play much. since then, he has been back to his old self.

you say hes 34. thats not THAT old.

you say its not likely the braves will their ideal guy….if they mags, they will. he is absolutly perfect for the braves, in every way.

by the way, if he gets hurt again, and doesnt get enough PAs, his 2010 and 2011 years become options, meaning, the braves can end the contract. $3mil buyout for 2010, free if they do it for 2011. this is yet another reason mags is perfect. depending on how the deal goes down if we trade for him, we might not even be on the hook for the buyout, or all of his salary.

By David O'Brien

September 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Random, that’s not tongue-in-cheek by Posnanski. As we’ve mentioned a few times, KC is the one team I wouldn’t be surprised to see Francoeur traded to, simply because of Dayton Moore and his long association with Francoeur. They remain friends who stay in contact, from my understanding. But more importantly, Dayton was here when the Braves drafted and developed Francoeur, and he’s going to have a lot better memory/impression of the player than other teams/GMs who’d just Francoeur on his performance slide and or what they’ve heard from scouts or through the grapevine.

KC is probably the team, more than any other, that would give the Braves something of reasonable value for Francoeur.

By Lee In S GA

September 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

If you were the Tigers owner and your GM came into the office and said we just traded Gorkys, Jair and Mags for Edgar, JoJo and The Bridge, how long would it take you to fire the GM?

A New York minute.

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I’d say some combo of Lillibridge, Jones, Reyes, and a mid-tier prospect like Ernesto Meija, Scott Diamond, or Deunte Heath should do it. Heck, put James Parr in the mix too, I wouldn’t be too sad to part with him. As long as we’re willing to take on the whole salary, which I don’t think should be a problem.

But yes, absolutely NO WAY on Hanson. I really think (of course, my opinion means little, lol) that he’s going to compete for the 5th starter job out of spring training. I mean, he’s got little left to prove in the minors, and from what I hear on milb radio, his stuff is both really good and really advanced. I’m very, very excited about him, as I’m sure you’ve noticed. But there is no way I’m giving up Hanson, Flowers, Rohrbough, etc. to get him and that salary. I think this has the opportunity to be a very “Bravesy” deal, just like some of the good ol’ steals JS used to pull off.

But if this deal goes down it does limit our ability to swing a deal for a top-flight starter and keep top-level prospects like Hanson and Schafer in our system, IMO.

Perhaps we sign Lowe and Hampton, and stand pat, or maybe add a Japanese pitcher? I know that doesn’t sound too appealing to the blog, but if we do the Magglio thing, I really can’t see us swinging any Peavy-type deals.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Still waiting on valid reasoning as to why the coaches should not be back.

A lot of talk about one-run games and one player (Francoeur). Not sure I see where that equates to the coaches deserving to be let go.

Also, there was mention of hitting the cut-off man and bunting, etc. First of all, do the Braves really make more errors in those areas than other teams. Second, are the errors a result of coaching? This isn’t little league. Players who reach the majors should know how to play baseball. If they don’t, I’m not sure you can blame major league coaches. Some of you act like the majors is full of guys who don’t know their backsides from a hole in the ground and are severely mentally unstable (they can’t play if a friend gets traded, etc.).

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

you say its not likely the braves will their ideal guy….if they mags, they will. he is absolutly perfect for the braves, in every way.

He will be 35 years old next season. Now that they are testing, i’m not wild about giving all that money to someone that old who also recently somewhat vanished for three whole seasons after the age of 30. The fountain of youth ain’t what it was 10 years ago.

Also, if you look at his numbers this year, they are good but not unbelievable either. He’s had one unbelievable season in the last five. To be honest, many were underwhelmed with what Tex was doing while here and, in contrast to Mags, Tex had better numbers, more power, a better glove, less injury history, was six years younger, $3 million cheaper.

If they got him, I’d be glad but very wary.

By Random

September 19, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

DOB: “KC is probably the team, more than any other, that would give the Braves something of reasonable value for Francoeur.”

You mean, someone like DeJesus (yay) or like Teahen (boo)?

Like Greinke/Meche (yay) or like Hochevar/Bannister (boo)?

Or a solid to can’t-miss prospect or two?

(Don’t think we can look to KC for any kind of quality pitching. Do you?)

By mbatl

September 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I for one am glad the staff is back intact. There’s something to be said for continuity, and I don’t blame any of those guys for the Braves’ problems.

There’s a real “glass half empty” view of the Braves’ 1-run-loss record, IMO. Yes, it’s remarkable, and yes, it’s frustrating.

But given that we lost 4 starting pitchers, our top 3 relievers, and our starting LF (and wisely traded away our slugging 1B), one might conclude that we were fortunate to be “in” so many close games. To me, it indicates that despite all the injuries, we were very close to being a very competitive team. Sometimes I think people would be happier if we’d lost those 27 games by four runs.

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Random, I’d take Bannister or Hochevar for Francouer. I’m not sure about straight-up (either way), but it’s a good start.

No way we get Greinke or Meche for Frenchy.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

If we trade for a top flight starter, Schafer, Heyward, Hanson, are going to be involved man. Not all, but probably two of the three. I think the Tigers will ask for a lot for Ordonez, but if they are cutting payroll, how much can they really expect back?

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Eric (Atlanta): Okay Jerry, I need a Braves question answered. What direction is this team going in? Cox is still the manager, the two best players miss 30 games a year(Chipper because of injury, McCann because he is a catcher), and they have a lot of okay-good postional players(Kelly Johnson, Yunel Escobar, and Casey Kotchman) on their roster with NO pitching outside of Jurrjens. So you tell me, what do they do?

Jerry Crasnick: (12:26 PM ET ) Eric, I wish I had the answer. Obviously, the big question is whether they commit to another year of Glavine and Smoltz for old times’ sake (my sense is the answer is “yes”). They also have to determine whether they want to shop Jeff Francoeur. But you’re right: They have a lot of big picture, cosmic issues to confront this offseason.

That was some assessment from Eric in Atlanta. I guess I can’t disagree with him. Although it could be A LOT worse.

And on a side note, I really don’t see a match for Francoeur to KC. Frenchy wouldn’t be the centerpiece of a Greinke deal, and Bannister or Meche is selling far too low in Francoeur. Dejesus? No thanks. If we are trading Frenchy, I hope it is for a couple of very good to great prospects…..I guess I am dreaming though.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I’d take Bannister or Hochevar for Francouer.

You’re breaking my heart bro. Bannister isn’t good. Neither is Hochevar. I know, what makes Frenchy and his .315 career OBP any better? Thats fair. But let’s keep him and hope that his value gets higher. The Brian Bannister’s of the world won’t get this team on track.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it’s tongue-and-cheek that he seriously think KC could be a possibility for Francoeur. I do, however, think he’s being sarcastic in that Kansas City is fond of acquiring mediocre players.

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

Right. Which is why I don’t think we’re going to do it. The only possible way I could see is if the Mariners decide to sell low on Bedard, which I don’t think they would do.

To me, it’s either trade for a LF like Mags, or trade for a frontline starter. Not both.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I would be very WARY of acquiring Maggs. At the same time, after that fiasco of Rent-a- Wreck for a #2 Starter and possible All Star CF, Dumbo may be precluded from making a deal with the Braves.

Lee in S. Ga., You would think Ilitch would fire Double Dumb, BUT this is Detroit. You know Detroit—-GM, Ford, Chrysler, Government Intervention, Matt Millen, Happy Go Lucky Mayor——-Ilitch might give him a raise. As long as he has his silly hockey team—-viewed by MAYBE 600,000 people across America during the playoffs(Before Pittsburgh)—he is good to go.

You know what—-Maybe you do get Ordonez for Lillibridge, BUT you will have to take Leyland as 3rd base coach.

By Jeff R

September 19, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

More worried about what the front office does this winter than the fact that Cox and Company were retained for ‘09.

It should prove to be a busy winter for the team. I’d expect a lot of restructuring. The team that takes the field next Apirl is going to look very different.

By Random

September 19, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun: “Still waiting on valid reasoning as to why the coaches should not be back… . there was mention of hitting the cut-off man and bunting, etc. First of all, do the Braves really make more errors in those areas than other teams. Second, are the errors a result of coaching?”

So, okay, you’re gonna be hard-headed about this one, huh?

JK

(-8

“Second” — How else can you measure the performance of coaches except by the performance of their players? Causality (or influence) must be assumed.

(Otherwise, why even have coaches? Or are you trying to say that the Braves’ performance could get even worse with worse coaches?)

“First of all” — And the performance of the players can be measured against the performance of other teams by wins and losses.

“Players who reach the majors should know how to play baseball.”

Then what is the purpose of having ML coaches at all?

“If they don’t, I’m not sure you can blame major league coaches.”

Looks to me like the direction your argument is ultimately headed logically could be paraphrased as follow:

“No, we don’t need to change any of the coaches because after all they have no influence on the players’ performance and actually do nothing at all at this level.”

I know that’s overstating it a little, and reduces your points to absurdity, but it does look to me to be the only place your argument can proceed from here.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

See!!! If you guys followed the Marlins you would be contemplating what to get for Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez. And I don’t want to hear Lillibridge. Hey, that would be a fun deal to work out Florida Marlins style. Make an offer—REMEMBER No arbitration eligible OR big contracts > 2 Million.

By Brian

September 19, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Steve- I agree with you that if we get Ordonez it’ll cost us and won’t be able to make a deal for an ace, expecting and hoping Hanson/Heyward aren’t traded. Lowe is almost a no brainer and I’ll be shocked if they get another pitcher as good as him. I know some of you heard last night where Chip explained how FW beleives JF can be our HR guy next year so if he is traded that was some BS or FW is staying positive and actually beleives that- which is a good thing!

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim, fair enough on Bannister. I still like Hochevar, though (got a soft spot for young, affordable flamethrowers). I also did say that I wouldn’t do it straight-up, and I can’t envision an expanded deal that would satisfy both teams.

I tend to say silly things when speculation offseason acquistions, lol. There are just too many ways to go this winter…so many possibilities. I’m very excited to see what we do, as long as my boy Tommy Hanson stays put, lol.

By Brian

September 19, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales- Gotta ask you something- You talk about the Marlins and them having more WC than the Braves(among others) but look at that ‘97 team! The most fabricated champioship team EVER! I know a title is a title, but seriously, why brag about that? The ‘04 team? OK, that was well earned and deserved but to diss us for having only one WC was kinda ignorant!

By DAP

September 19, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

braveheart 35 isnt too old.

he had injury trouble for part of two years (all in all he missed just over a full year. TWO years, dude. not three. that was awhile ago.

in the last three years, he has hit 72 homers, 238 RBIs, had a .329 AVG, .916 OPS, has played 447 games, and hes has never stuck out more than 87 times in a season.

players like this dont suck when they turn 35. the only way a player like this suddenly doesnt produce is if they dont play, which means they are hurt, which means in this case, the braves would have to pay him in 2010 or 2011.

also, he IS having a good year. check his stats, and compare them to guys around the league. 134 OPS+ this year.

the only possible negative in this is trading a guy we would rather hang onto. thats it. if we get ordonez it would be a grand slam, dude. dont be so wary.

getting mags would work out great for the braves. he bats right handed with power and average, plays outfield, hes a superstar we can afford, and his contract has a safty net if something happens to him. hes perfect.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I don’t think the Braves will be able to acquire a potential ace unless they give up Heyward, Freeman, Hanson or Schafer. Not even a potential #2. They have to give up at least one of those guys. At least.

By Adam

September 19, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

I think instead of trying to get more “prospects” from KC for Francoeur, why not make a real push at Greinke. Include a top prospect of our own with Francoeur or offer Francoeur and KJ for Greinke. KC could use a 2nd baseman next year. I know I am tired of hearing the idea of obtaining prospects. The Braves have LOTS of prospects but hardly any Major League ready starting pitching and power. To me, those are the 2 things the Braves need to compete next year. Greinke would be a huge upgrade over anyone we have in the starting rotation next year and has legit #1 stuff. Get Derek Lowe in Free Agency and as bad as it sounds, resign Hampton for one year to have a chance at a decent starting pitching staff. If Smoltz comes back, great, then Morton, Hansen or Reyes can work on things in AAA and be ready when called upon.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Random, I do actually think the impact of major league coaches is extremely overstated. Not saying they have no impact; just that I suspect their impact is overstated in many and most cases.

I think major league managers and coaches exist more to manage and to organize. A lot of times they may tweak this or that to help a player realize his potential to a slightly greater degree. In a few cases maybe a coach can work with a player to help him break out (Jeff Pentland with Sammy Sosa, maybe Mazzone with certain pitchers), but for the most part I think coaches are there just to keep things managed and organized.

Now coaches in the minors, particularly the lower levels, may be a different story.

I know someone may twist this and say that I’m implying that coaches and managers don’t matter and aren’t necessary. I am absolutely not saying that. Again, I am saying their impact is very limited. But every little bit counts, and if they have any impact, they are worth having. Plus, again, I think they are very valuable for the sake of organization and managing people.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

I’m very excited to see what we do, as long as my boy Tommy Hanson stays put, lol.

Steve, he is my boy too, and I like prospects just about as much as anyone on this blog, but sadly, you have to give something of value up if you want value back. It sucks that we don’t have a ton of upper level pitching prospects. As much as like Medlen and Redmond, I’m pretty sure the consensus is that Redmond is a back end guy and Medlen will end up as a reliever. We’ll see.

Off topic, I think we have discussed this before, but how about Aaron Crow or Steve Strasbourg?!?!?! I really, really hope this is the year the Braves go above slot and select a college bat or arm. Not the year to be drafting a high schooler. Worse things can happen to this franchise, of course, but I will be pretty p** if they don’t take a shot at a guy like Green, Ackley, Strasbourg, White, Gibson or Crow. They will have the opportunity to select on of them. Thoughts?

By DAP

September 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

efrim you dont like david dejesus? hes a pretty good player, man. francouer for dejesus after this season would be an absolute steal.

By Lee In S GA

September 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Management does not want to make an example (scapegoat) for the season out of 1 or 2 of these coaches and in IMO is exactly what they would be doing if someone was fired. No doubt injuries hurt the team. Cox was already coming back so this should not be that big of a surprise to anyone that the entire coaching staff is coming back also.

Make a few trades, sign a free agent or 2 and see what direction the team goes in next season. Next season will more-than-likely seal the future fate of many of these coaches (including Cox). No, I do not believe upper management will keep him forever, especially if the losing continues. If injuries do not play a major part of next season and the Braves still have a discouraging 2009 year then it will be time to start doing a little soul searching and house cleaning to start thinking about going in a different direction. If the team falls back into contention……well most fans will be content.

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Efrim, how’s this?

Trade for Magglio, sign Lowe, sign Dempster or a Japanese guy. Keep Frenchy, keep KJ. Rotation would be: Jair, Lowe, Dempster, and we could have Hampton, Campillo, Hanson and Glavine available to fill the 4th and 5th slots. Put Morton in AAA to get more seasoning.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Adam

Braves don’t have a ton of big time pitching prospects other than Tommy Hanson…at least in the upper levels. I understand what you are saying. I’m down for a Greinke trade, I really am. Hanson, Johnson and another prospect? It sucks to give all that up, but for Greinke? I’d probably do it. I like Greinke a ton. I just hope that the Braves sign him long term if they did trade for him. No two years and then gone after 2010, because this franchise should be looking more toward 2011 and beyond.

By Steve from OH

September 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

My previous post was one of the most conservative routes we could go, IMO. We could be a lot more aggressive within that general framework if we wanted.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

DAP, not that I don’t like him, just that he shouldn’t be what we target. Pitching or power corner bats should be the target. Dejesus isn’t known for his power as oppose to his on base ability.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Brian, This is only a Blog. It needs an agent provacateur at times to stir it up.

It was the 03 Marlins and as far as the 97 team “Buying a World Series”—Isn’t that what all but ONE!!! team tries to do every year? The only problem with Marlins “Buying a World Series” IS THEY DID IT!!! Think the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs have tried to “Buy a World Series”?? Yankees have been trying pre 9/11 and since to “Buy a World Series”.

If the Braves had ownership that was willing to spend 230 million, how many people in the vicinity of Turner Field would want them to do it?? Would that be “fabricated”??

By Brian

September 19, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales- I meant the ‘03 Marlins

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Steve, that is asking for a lot. How about just signing Lowe and trading for Mag Pipes(wow, I just dropped a Karl Ravech nickname, eesh). Although should a team like the Braves really be bringing in two 35 year olds?

By Random

September 19, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun: “Still waiting on valid reasoning as to why the coaches should not be back… … . there was mention of hitting the cut-off man and bunting, etc… . are the errors a result of coaching?”

In fact, it seems to me that you yourself are making one of the more persuaive arguments on here for repalcing the current coaches.

To wit:

If you can so facilely assume that the current coaches have no impact on the players’ performance, then it’s high time we got some coaches that did.

PS: “I do, however, think he’s being sarcastic in that Kansas City is fond of acquiring mediocre players.”

Yeah, I kinda got that flavor from it as well.

But I also got the flavor that it had recently moved beyond the “could be a possibility” phase. That’s what I considered a bombshell.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

DAP and efrim, only problem with DeJesus is that he lacks power and the Braves already have a few outfielders who are good hitters but lack power.

By Lou Vales

September 19, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Brian, I’ve got a little testy after a couple of people actually said—pretty exact quotes—that ANY team could win a World Series if they followed the “Marlins Formula” of TEARING apart team and getting prospects.

If that is the truth, I suggest that the Brewers, Rangers, Rockies try it since they have won NOTHING!!! and there are a few other teams who have won NOTHING in the last 50 years.

The GOAL of ALL MLB teams SHOULD BE to win the LAST game played in October. If you don’t do that—and I realize only 8 teams get to play in October—-you still look back with regret as a PLAYER or FAN if you never got it done or saw it done.

Is that correct!! And I know about the JOY of contending, but ONCE every 50 years or so you must FINISH!!

By DAP

September 19, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim should a team like the Braves really be bringing in two 35 year olds?

if its lowe and ordonez, then absolutly.

shaun Braves already have a few outfielders who are good hitters but lack power.

i dont think thats right. what outfielders do we have that compare to dejesus?

By DAP

September 19, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

shaun problem with DeJesus is that he lacks power and the Braves already have a few outfielders who are good hitters but lack power.

francouer has a .645 OPS

blanco has a .682 OPS

anderson has a .665 OPS

infante has a .760 OPS, and he doesnt even count.

dejesus has a .797 OPS (by the way, he has 11 homers. the 4 guys i just listed have have 16 between them.)

so which of our guys is like dejesus? answer: none of them. dejesus is better than all the guys we are runing out there everyday. hed be great leading off for us.

By UGA

September 19, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Next episode we get to see U Know Who go hunting, er, dining at Hooters.

By Efrim

September 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun

DAP, not that I don’t like him, just that he shouldn’t be what we target. Pitching or power corner bats should be the target. Dejesus isn’t known for his power as oppose to his on base ability.

I agree with you man. Dejesus lacks the power we need.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

DAP, read this article discussing a study done on aging patterns with hitters:

http://www.tangotiger.net/aging.html

I don’t think we can continue assuming these 35+ yo guys will find the fountain of youth the way they did 10 years ago with all of those drugs. Thankfully times are maybe changing.

By Brian

September 19, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales- No, it would not be fabricated because 95 percent of our roster wouldn’t be bought! The Braves don’t operate that way in case you haven’t noticed! There is no doubt, that to compete, you have to spend money but to a limit. Dude, your argument makes sense to a Yankee/Mut/or a Cub fan. To a Braves fan? Makes no sense at all!

By Random

September 19, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun September 19, 2008 1:47 PM

I agree with everything you said in this long comment and am glad you laid it all out without us having to drag it out of you bit by bit.

What it boils down to is coaches have only a little bit to add to this or that player. That argues for a regular periodic turnover of coaches since they each soon exhaust their limits of helpfulness and a new batch will have some things new to add.

What argues against regular and periodic turnover of coaches is organizational stability.

Those two things are what I think need to be weighed against each other, and at this point for the Braves, I think it’s time we got some new coaches with fresh perspectives and different little things to bring to the table.

(Assuming that they meet the minimum requirements of managing/organiizing capabilities and Cox is comfortable with them.)

By Walker, Texas Bum

September 19, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Well I guess Chipper can get a early jump on hunting this season since the Braves won’t be making it to post season play. Myabe even come out with a new video clip.

By Shaun

September 19, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

DAP, right but Dejesus is still not a great power hitter just because he’s better than what the Braves have.

If you can so facilely assume that the current coaches have no impact on the players’ performance, then it’s high time we got some coaches that did.

Minimal impact doesn’t mean no impact. I don’t think any coach can make that much of a difference as far as making players drastically better. At least I don’t think it happens that often.

By Hoosier Aaron

September 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see us call the O’s about Daniel Cabrera.

I think he could be had - assuming he’s healthy. Strikeouts are down which means he might need an appointment with Tommy John. But - if he’s healthy I think he can still be a beast.

Rockin’ Leo could certainly give us the lowdown on this guy.

By DAP

September 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

efrim and shaun keep in ind im not saying we need to pull out all the stop and get dejesus because he is the answer. all im saying is that hes better than anyone weve had this year. he would be an improvement, and francouer for dejesus would be a steal. in fact, it has 0% chance of happening because its so lopsided.

By matches

September 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Not too excited about trading Franceour for anything we’d be likely to get back for him. I’d love to have Dejesus or Greinke but no way KC would make that deal.

Keep in mind that Franceour is going to be pretty affordable for 2 more years at least. If he could rebound to being even an average hitter he’d be a good bargain. Granted you can’t build a winning team around guys who are only average, but if we were able to acquire a power-hitting LF, plug Schafer in CF either in 2009 or 2010, .265/20/80 out of Franceour in RF wouldn’t be bad at all.

Now - whether Frenchy can get back to .265/20/80 - anyone’s guess. Maybe he can’t. But at his price range I’m willing to hold onto him and see unless someone wants to make us an Isiah Thomas-esque offer for him.

By Adam

September 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Hanson, Johnson and another prospect for Greinke..I would pull that trigger without hesitation. I also like Rivera as a FA pick up. With little power at 1B the Braves have to find some in the OF. Burrell in my opinion shouldn’t be an option. Looking at his career path, the Braves appear to have a very similar player currently in RF. Ordonez would be a nice pick up, just a question of him being the right fit or not. He’s expensive and not getting any younger.

By McFann Ô

September 19, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

See, it’s this kinda stuff that makes me feel a little bit like mud.

Sorry!

By MetMans only friend

September 19, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

MetMans really scared and nervous about this series!! He has pooped like eight times today because of his nerves!!! He has secluded himself from the world to get ready for the heartbreak!! Only once in a blue moon will he even attempt to come out of his room lately!! Don’t let him fool you, he has NO confidence in his beloved Mets!!

By McFann Ô

September 19, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Dang…Zambrano has given up SEVEN runs already! Yikes…

Gotta get ready to head out to the park. Talk to y’all tomorrow!

GO BRAVES!!!

By N Nine

September 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

McFann he will be fine, now is the time for Mac to take over in all the stats for a catcher. Plus cubs just about clinched and will take it easy on him. Mac, silver slugger08 here we come!

By David O'Brien

September 19, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOGGAGE IS UP

By DAP

September 19, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

shaun right but Dejesus is still not a great power hitter just because he’s better than what the Braves have.

not only did i not assert that, but nobody did. YOU said the braves already had good hitters with no power that play the outfield. that isnt true.

By gayle

September 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

The retention of the entire Braves’ coaching staff is a perfect example.

BC pointed to injuries this year, and they have certainly been well documented. But what about the last two years with no postseason and the last seven years without a playoff series victory?

Were all those failures because of injuries too?

I submit that as long as the people up top stay the same, so will the results.

And even if BC is the best manager in the history of the game to play for, many if not all free agents want that one thing that they won’t have a chance at here - a ring.

BTW, Ibanez in a great player, solid, consistent, all hustle. He falls under the radar here because he plays in Seattle. But he is a New Yorker and last time I checked, the Mets were also looking for a left fielder.

By Flustered Fan

September 19, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

I get so sick and tired of reading where the players say Cox is such a good manager to play for! If he is so good, then why don’t they play harder for him?? Also, what does it take to get a shakedown in this organization? Other teams that have faltered this season have fired their managers. Why are we still stuck with the same old dead weight? Why are the Braves owned by out of town “Do Nothings” who don’t give a flip about making this team better? The whole Braves organization is like a cancer on my sanity. It is just slowly eating it away. And one another thing…why in the HELL was Corky Miller brought back???

By Tom

September 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun—I’d like to commend you for your position with respect to Pat Burrell. Not sure if you’ll even read my post, since it’s a rarity that I actually post here.

I wanted to throw one more stat into the box here. It’s undoubtedly too esoteric for Mr. O’Brien, but if you want to talk about value to team, here’s a stat that factors in his home run totals and his game-winning RBI totals.

Win Probability Added is a stat that measures the win expectancy at any point in the game, based on matrices of the thousands of games played in the last few decades. So a team leading 4-2 with two outs and no one on in the bottom of the sixth has some given percent chance to win. That number is recalculated after each play (and accompanying situation change), and the change in win expectancy after each play is credited to the hitter and the pitcher. Since baseball is a zero-sum game (i.e., as good as that home run was for your team, it was equally as bad for the other team), one player gets a negative credit and one a positive credit.

This way, higher leverage situations get more weight, and you have an insanely accurate measure of exactly how much a player has been worth to his team. Not just “did he hit home runs?” but “when did he hit them?”. I don’t see how you could possibly come up with a more accurate measure of past performance than this. It takes into account EVERY SINGLE PLAY in which the hitter was involved (on offense only, for the record), and takes into account just how important that play was in terms of the game’s outcome.

So here’s a pretty straightforward stat that simultaneously has pretty obvious value in terms of what it measures. Mr. O’Brien (and his fellow writer from Philly) will probably be stunned to learn that Pat Burrell leads Phillies hitters by a large margin. In fact, Burrell’s score is nearly double Ryan Howard’s. Even Jayson Werth (as you mentioned, Shaun) ranks ahead of Ryan Howard, albeit by only the smallest of margins. Brad Lidge actually ranks as the Phillies’ most valuable player.

Look, people have limited memories, and they tend to remember the guys who had a flair for the dramatic (i.e., big second halves, lots of GW hits) instead of the guys who do the dirty work in the all-important first inning or who carry the team through April and May.

The fact is that this stat removes the imperfection of the memory. It doesn’t forget even one play, and it adds up the whole season to create a remarkably accurate picture of a player’s value to his team.

These stats can be found at fangraphs.com for anyone who may be interested.