Braves

By brian

September 4, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

wow

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 4, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Geez…Im usually never first

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

sad title:(

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

N Nine(http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/09/03/letstakeami.html#comment-123343003)—

Heh heh…Thanks. I appreciate the support. A tad bit embarrassed…I cann feel my face turning red…But I’m very honored by the kind words.

We have gotten emotional, haven’t we? We must be sad that the season’s coming to a close…I know I am. But the new season starts in what? 7 months? And we’ll have Spring Training before that! It’s not too far off!

; )

I am looking forward to some cooler weather, though.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

welcome back…gonna be in bold all day again?

By The real

September 4, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Well then. Scary stats on Francoeur. Regardless of how old the guy is(because there are plenty of players posting a better OPS than 740-780 that are around the same age), he has been a huge dissapointment and it is time to cut bait. How about Jonathon Sanchez from the Giants? I think that would be a fair trade, Sanchez for Francoeur. Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Nats have change in pitching plans, going with RHP Shairon Martis tonight, big league debut. Balester (glut strain) out, Bergmann moving to tomorrow night.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

Braveheart—

Of course! I give you full credit!

ROY? Me? Well, I’m not so sure I’m worthy…I know I couldn’t possibly be the MVB (Most Valuable Blogger), seeing as how I’m sort of a one-topic blogger.

Hopefully, next year, we can get you to talk about more than McCann

Oooo…That could be asking too much! ; ) I’ll do my best.

Oopsies…My 2:41 didn’t work all the way. Sorry about that.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Whew! At least Bergmann is still gonna pitch this series! Thanks for the scoop, DOB!

By Renegator

September 4, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Another all-bold blog?

If the Nats sweep these sorry Braves in this 4 game series - they will only be 2 games back. That is sad.

At least the Braves will finally be mathmatically eliminated after this weekend.

By Jim H.

September 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I lost interest six weeks ago and just want this season over. Loosing player after to player to injuries, Skip passing away, Frenchy regressing……What a sucky year! Since my interest in the baseball playoffs is pretty much nil if the Braces aren’t involved, the next thing that will interest me will be the retooling that will be coming this winter. It needs to be pretty dramatic but if done right we can contend again next year (lots of people forget that we were hanging in pretty good this year until the injury situation got totally ridiculous).

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

THE REAL

I hate to say this but trading Frenchy this winter not a good idea! We would get a much much lower value right now. Even lower than what he’s worth.Im afraid we have to (UGH) stick with him and watch his value rise(a bit) Just imagine we traded him this past winter and what we could have gotten for him! I’m not saying it will rise that high, but can’t go any lower..just read DOB stats on him.

By Jon F.

September 4, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

They need to do more than consider rightfield. How can the Braves run Frenchy out there again next year? He seems like a great person, but we need a solid ballplayer, too. This season for him has got to be one of the worst (and sadest) regressions in MLB history. It’s the most dramatic “slump” I’ve ever seen. Last year, I told my wife that Andruw Jones would be out of the game in two years. Now, I’m thinking the same thing about Francoeur. The arm alone is not enough to fill a roster spot, let alone a starting position. If the scouts think there is a chance of recovery, then let him start next year at the farm. Even if the pitching staff hadn’t been decimated, the lack of power and clutch hitting would have kept us out of the playoffs.

By gayle

September 4, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

I pose a question.

Looking at their records of the past two years, what really was the honest expectations for Glavine, Smoltz and Hampton going into this season? Barring injuries, was this really the rotation of a playoff team?

Does anyone rememeber Tommy’s farewell game with the Mets? In a for real “must win” game, he made it all the way through the lineup giving up 7 runs in the first inning with his finishing touch hitting the opposing pitcher.

So was the expectation for Glavine and Smoltz to perhaps generate 15 wins each?

Why? Based on what?

And what about Hampton? How could there be ANY expectations for him, given that he had not pitched in nearly three years.

What I’m saying is that while it is very easy and convenient to look at the collapse of the opening day rotation as the cause of the collective pain among Braves fans, I don’t think this team would be contending even if they did not lose Glavine and Smoltz.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

McFann Your not a one-topic blogger! You range from Mcann to cubs to turtle species to getting victorinoed to your love for wayne to muts to..you get my point! MVB

By flange1

September 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Interesting thought on trading Frenchy for Sanchez.

I have been thinking for a few weeks that the Braves might have to suck it up and trade both Frenchy and KJ in off years and try a different route.

Wonder if we could get Cain or Greineke for KJ and Frenchy?

Wonder what it would take to get Jacobs from the Marlins…

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

These lyrics sum up my feelings for the 2008 season.

Blue Flannel - Havin’ A Bad Day

I hate drunk people and I hate sober people and I hate all people today……

And I hate short people And I hate tall people And I hate all people today…….

Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

I hate horny people And i hate corny people And i hate all people today……..

And I hate dumb people and i hate smart people and i hate all people today…….

And i hate my boss BBQ sauce i just toss them all away.

Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

Like a child being chased by a monster i will never go away i close my eyes and hope for bright tomorrow i wanna be alone, i wanna be alone

Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Cuz i’m havin’ a bad day

i’m havin’ a bad day Havin’ a bad day get out of my way Yeah get out of my way.

By BossLady

September 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Sounds like a fun six days to me.

I thought that at the beginning of this fallout, the young players would step up and try to land a job for next year.

They don’t look like they want to play in the majors. What team would come for trade talk with the Braves in this condition. Not only would they not be Braves they won’t be in the majors.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Hmm…Yeah. Guess I’m not so one-topiced…”topicked”? Uh…

But, I still don’t think I’m worthy of being the MVB!

Think I better go take advantage of the nice weather!

Later!

By Goodoleboy58

September 4, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Yall do realize hind-sight is 20/20… There are no crystal balls.

By Trucker Fan

September 4, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Patterson’s show was great I agree - but you must not have had a good view - he had 4 other musicians with him 3 of which are currently members of Drive-By Truckers. Along with Patterson was Brad Morgan on Drums (DBT), John Neff on Pedal Steel and Guitar (DBT), and Jay Gonzalez on Keys (Jay has been touring with them for the last few months this year). David Barbe (who is not a member of DBT but has produced most of the DBT records) was on Bass.

By BossLady

September 4, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

McFann I think you would be a good MVB. Your posts are informative, emotional and with a pleasant polite sense of humor.

You, Shaun and DOB are the blog. All blog.

By Jon F.

September 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

No way any team wants Frenchy right now. I bet the Braves put him on waivers just to confirm.

By JC from UT

September 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Last March a co-worker of mine said the Braves would finish last in the division. granted he is a Phillies fan. He also said Glavine and Smoltz woiuld be done this year. Earlier today I asked him if he had any lotto #’s for me.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Looking at their records of the past two years, what really was the honest expectations for Glavine, Smoltz and Hampton going into this season? Barring injuries, was this really the rotation of a playoff team?

The honest expectation for the rotation this year was

220 innings for Hudson with an ERA+ of 130+,

200 innings and an ERA+ of 120+ from Smoltz,

180 innings and an ERA+ hovering around 100 for Glavine,

100 innings for Hampton and an ERA+ of about 90 to 100,

100 innings for Chuck James with an ERA+ about 100,

150 innings for Jurrjens with an ERA+ of about 100, and

250+ combined innings out of Soriano, Moylan, Ohman and Gonzalez with an ERA+ of 160+.

Those were absolutely reasonable expectations and most definitely a playoff caliber rotation and bullpen. And you have to expect that if they were contenders at the trade deadline, they would have been in play for another quality rotation arm and bullpen arm to give them even more quality innings.

That’s 1200 expected quality innings eating out of the rotation and pen assembled last offseason. It would have left only 250 innings to be filled in by Bennett, Acosta, Boyer and the other not quite ready for prime time players.

Unfortunately, they’ve haven’t even gotten 560 innings thus far out of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens, James, Hampton, Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Gonzalez. That’s not even half of the 1200 expected innings.

By Stephen

September 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Gut the whole freakin team except for McCann. Lets go Nats, kick the Bravos butts. We need a high draft pick. Dam, never thought I’d say that:(

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

gayle, that may be true, but my question to you is “was it feasilble for us, in the 2007 offseason, to replace Hampton, Smoltz, and not sign Glavine, and still find three starters of equal or greater value through trades or free agent signings?” I mean, it is reasonable to expect Smoltz and Hudson, when healthy, to at least win 15 games or contribute 15 wins worth of value, and it was reasonable to expect 200 innings and 10+ wins (at least; look at his last 3 seasons) and possibly more with good offensive support and a the (healthy) bullpen we were supposed to have, as well as an ERA of around 4.00.

Granted, Hampton is never a given, but Jair has exceeded expectations (to say the least), so this really leaves a question mark in only one spot of the rotation—which we could have adequately filled with Morton, JoJo, Campillo, or a trade. I think JoJo or Charlie would perform a little better if they were surrounded by four good starters, which would mean a little less pressure on them to go out and win every single start.

It really wasn’t even an issue to think Huddy and Glavine would be injury risks. It was reasonable to suggest that of Smoltz? Possibly. For Hampton? Sure. But to suggest that it was reasonable to think that three of them, or all of them (as they all have been hurt) would be hurt seems a bit of the old “hindsight bias.”

I can see where you’re coming from, though.

By Chop Chop

September 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

The offseason can’t get here soon enough.

I had the Braves pegged at 73-89, but it’s looking like the under on 70 wins is a strong possibility. The Braves are a pathetic team right now. While that’s perfectly fine with me (after the way this season has unfolded, at least), it just doesn’t warrant the kind of obsessive-compulsive blogging habit that I’d otherwise indulge.

As far as music is concerned, I’m basically on shutdown until Metallica’s new album drops. I need to see if those old b******* can piece together a strong record. It’s been quite a while for them.

(DOB, today’s song? Well, that’s entrainment.)

I’m not a big BBQ or pie guy, but if someone made a BBQ pie, it would make me feel good from my head down to my toes. And toes are not to be trifled with.

Life has to be so difficult, doesn’t it?

By monty

September 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Anyone besides me concerned about Jurrjen’s and Campillo’s struggles lately. At one point in the season I felt pretty comfortable looking towards next year and having those two guys penciled in as starters, but down the stretch they seem to be wilting.

Maybe it’s the heat and the innings pitched, neither have ever pitched this much before I don’t believe.

Morton defintely needs to work on locating his fastball and his confidence, I think his stuff is pretty decent. Still have to believe we trade for or sign 2 good starters and a left fielder who can field and hit with pop, also.

By Big Easy

September 4, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Count me in for voting McFann ROY and MVB. Like Braveheart said, there are a lot of candidates for MVB, but she is the consistent, positive voice. She’s got my vote.

Now, McFann, here’s hoping your boy tears it up this series (and the rest of the season)!

~E~

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Agreed with your 3:44. Seen the news from Andalusia?

By DAP

September 4, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

gayle Barring injuries, was this really the rotation of a playoff team?

HECK yes.

So was the expectation for Glavine and Smoltz to perhaps generate 15 wins each?

Why? Based on what?

first off, i dont think anyone expected them to win 15 each. ok, on to other things.

glavine has made almost 700 starts in his career, and you pick out one of them to decide if he can still pitch? its illogical. glavine won 28 games and pitched almost 400 innings between 2006-2007. he had never been on the DL. teh braves needed a bottom of the rotation starter. glavine was perfect for that role.

john smoltz. up until his DL time this year was still one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. he was a cy young contender in 2005, 2006, 2007. last year, 205 innings, 197 Ks. 14 wins.

so its very obvious that if those two guys had not gotten hurt, and hampton had started in the rotation, the braves would be up near the top of the division, if not leading it by a healthy margin.

very obvious.

By braves70

September 4, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Well who will win the coveted 2008 Dan Kolb gasman of the year award for the Braves? It takes special talent to come in game after game and throw away a hard night’s work by your starter by dumping gas on the already firey situation. So many candidates: Blaine Boyer would my personal pick. Many here would nominate Manny Acosta. Then we have three late arrivals who have made themselves candidates in Elmer Dessens, Julian Tavarez, and Vladimir Nunez. Rafael Soriano is disqualified since he apparently did not pitch this year.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Gayle- Have to disagree with ya. Smoltz was pitching almost lights out before the injury. Remember, he outpitched Santana? They new Glavine wasn’t what he used to be, but he was almost a lock for 10-12 wins and could pitch you alot of innings. I agree, we probably wouldn’t go deep in the playoffs if we got there at all. I’m sure we would be contending right now, though. Imagine if we had those guys healthy all year. Good chance all those one run loses would be cut in half. Just my thoughts.

By fifthbusiness

September 4, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

I would bet a six pack that we are watching the outfield for next year with Jones being the fill in. Frenchy has too much potential to give up on him after one year. Let the kids play together and learn to be big leaguers. Anderson and Blanco give the Braves a good start to the line up. Besides the big name free agent outfielders have big holes that will be exposed in the Braves line-up.

Pitching will be an interesting guess. My forecast is that they land a middle of a rotation inning eater or two and let their young ones take their lumps. Its 1988 over again. It may be 2010 before the Braves have the experience to compete.

There is one reason to suspect that the Braves may be buyers this year. Liberty Media needs the Braves to sell their satellite subscriptions. If you do not have Direct TV with the expensive package, you cannot catch all of the games. I bet the Braves have paid for themselves in increased satellite revenue. A bad team will not increase subscriptions. This would suggest it may make good business sense to sign a big name or two to increase interest outside of Atlanta and the satellite subscription base (kind of like season ticket sells).

By etownbrave

September 4, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

McFann

I have only been reading the blog for a few months and only posting ocassionally. Your devotion to #16 is refreshing, innocent, and fun to follow. Glad you stuck around for others of us to “get to know you”. I too am looking forward to cooler weather for fishing and hunting. Since the Braves won’t be in post season I won’t have to be glued to the tv for playoff games. Guess staying up late watching politics is not bothering the bird? :)

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Seen the news from Andalusia?

Nico Suave?

By pinkygonzales

September 4, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Braves70,

Blaine Boyer is an obvious choice. He was responsible for the meltdown in Philly, the game that for all intents and purpose, ended our season. Yes, I gave Manny Acosta a new middle name during May and June. But let’s not forget how large a role Royce Ring played in destroying our season. The man could not get lefties out, which was his ONLY JOB! Let’s hope that Moylan comes back healthy next year.

By Carroll Rogers

September 4, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

quick update from DOB, who just called from the clubhouse.

James Parr is getting the start tonight - his major league debut - in place of Jo-Jo, who will be pushed back after the birth of his daughter to starting on Sunday.

Chipper is back in the lineup tonight and Escobar is getting another day off to rest his sore shoulder.

By Renegator

September 4, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Braves70

Gotta be Boyer, man. That guy has flat stunk since about June.

Good news is: you know he will be back next year to try and win it again…

That is if he doesn’t need TJ surgery. After leading the majors in appearances this year - he is a prime candidate for it next year.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

I’m not a big BBQ or pie guy, but if someone made a BBQ pie, it would make me feel good from my head down to my toes. And toes are not to be trifled with.

What about a mom pie? Can say that on a blog?

By flange1

September 4, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

WOW a BLUE FLANNEL REFERENCE!!!

No More Bobby, are you from Columbus? I know the Blue Flannel guys!!!!

By BA

September 4, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

McFann’s a rookie? She’ll get my ROY vote.

By Christy

September 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Boss Lady - RE your 3:21 and the young players not stepping up - I thought the same thing.

For whatever reason, I’m not sold on Blanco, and Brandon Jones has also left me under-whelmed. Lillibridge looks like he “knows he’s not going to replace Escobar, and not going to try”.

The only “young” players that seem to have played with any verve, to me, are Anderson who seems to be asking “Why wasn’t I up here earlier” and Prado more or less saying “see you don’t need KJ, you can have me full-time”

By BravesLover

September 4, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Every outfield position is up for grabs next season unless the Braves sign a boomer. JF can win a position or go to the minors as he can’t help off the bench. KJ would make as good bench man and put Prado at second. Better tell most of the Braves not too spend their fat paychecks too quickly as most of them won’t be (and shouldn’t be) in the majors too much longer. Come teach for $36K, or be a cop for $36K, or a fireman for $34K. It will be interesting to see how these sorry as__ed boys do in the real world.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Well who will win the coveted 2008 Dan Kolb gasman of the year award for the Braves? It takes special talent to come in game after game and throw away a hard night’s work by your starter by dumping gas on the already firey situation. So many candidates: Blaine Boyer would my personal pick. Many here would nominate Manny Acosta. Then we have three late arrivals who have made themselves candidates in Elmer Dessens, Julian Tavarez, and Vladimir Nunez. Rafael Soriano is disqualified since he apparently did not pitch this year.

I wouldn’t really nominate any of those guys because they weren’t supposed to pitch meaningful innings for this team. To be Kolbian, something meaningfully impactful is supposed to be expected out of you at the beginning of the season. For example, Roman Colon was about as dreadful in 2005 as Kolb but the expectations were different so we barely remember Colon. These guys from this year are more Colon-esque than Kolbian or Reistmian.

Soriano, Moylan, Gonzalez and Ohman were really the only ones eligible for a Kolbian award. Three of them didn’t pitch enough and Ohman was really good.

That’s how bad the Braves are. They’re not even good enough to have a Kolbian killer in the pen.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

thx ms. Rogers..overall good updates

By DAP

September 4, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

did you guys notice that jeff francouer had a pretty good series against the fish? 4 for 12 with a homer, 4RBIs and a walk. and three strikeouts. but thats an improvement!

By retiredscout

September 4, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Has anyone “contending” for a batting title ever had a weaker, less productive year than Chipper Jones? We have seen a lot of stories about Francouer’s B.A., but none about Chipper’s 70 point drop from his peak earlier this year. Even though Francouer is hitting 120 points less, last time I looked, he has 4 or 5 less RBI than Chipper. And, Francouer has not begged out of the line-up with every “tweak”. It is also interesting that even though he has been gone for weeks, Texeira continues to be the Braves RBI leader, and will end up with more than Chipper for the year. In my book, if Jones is viewed as a “team leader” this team will be in the toilet for the rest of his career.

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I’m trying to keep my excitement in check, but Nico sounds like another step in the right direction.

By Bobby has GOT TO GO

September 4, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

What a disgrace to the city of Atlanta and a Braves uniform. Bobby has lost all touch with reality…how can you go from Hall of Fame to piece of s@#!. If you think Hampton was stealing money, look at your boy Bobby. Getting thrown out of all these games is a sham and a terrible example for our young players. If you notice, he always gets thrown out on the calls you can’t dispute. Maybe this is his way of going back into the club lounge for another beer, while his inept players throw away another game. His “positive” spin is just a poor attempt at trying to divert the fans from reality. Get rid of him, McDowell, and our charity case hitting instructor, Terry “I’ll teach you like I did AJ and Frency” Pendleton. How can any of you Braves fans defend Bobby after what he has done the past 5 years. And, JS has succeeded in turning our Braves into the KC Royals. Please tell me the last Braves starting pitcher that we developed. Milwood? As my old buddy Einstein says, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insanity. Fans, quit drinking the kool-aid, clean house and get some people who actually care about winning rather than just cashing a huge check. Look what the Nats did to us. A trained monkey could have managed our division playoff winners with 4 hall of fame pitchers and Chipper in his prime. One world series…what a joke! Does anybody care?

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Odd News: A Major League player strikes out on a 4-2 count! Ya he already had a walk but took an extra pitch and striked out!

By Supes

September 4, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Anyone who says “Jeff can’t be traded”, apparently he can. According to Joe Simpson, who talked to one scout a month ago…the scout said if the Braves were going to put Jeff out there, all 29 other teams would be “lining up”.

Now, I don’t know what “value” the Braves would get back, but he can be traded. Which gives me hope that he will be traded. (to KC looks like the prime candidate, b/c of Moore’s connection to the Braves organization and how well he knows Jeff).

The Braves can not afford another season like this one from Jeff and expect to be competitive. Simple as that. Has it all been on Jeff? No. Has he contributed to the worst season in almost 2 decades. Yes. Big time drop off production, as DOB’s numbers point out. If he fails again, so do the Braves. They are simply counting on him and his power production especially and he’s failed.

For Jeff to help the Braves, he’s got to have at least 100RBI, an OBP of around 400, hit at least .300 with RISP, and hit at least 20-25 HR’s. Those are some legit power numbers that would help the Braves.

One other observation, Braves can’t afford to have both Blanco and Anderson starting in the OF for an entire season (next year). That is why, only one of those two must be penciled in going into spring training. Both have too much of a similar game. Both are speed guys with little power. I actually like Anderson’s game a bit more. He seems to use his speed more and be more aggressive at the plate, where Blanco is content with fouling pitches off and drawing walks.

There will be some OF’s available for LF next year. Just hope the Braves make the right move and don’t pick up a guy who just “takes the money” and drops off whatever production he did the year before. Case and point…Aaron Rowand (with the SF giants this season).

Oh how the mighty have fallen…I can’t recall the last time I’ve lost interest in a Braves season this early. I’m sure the older bloggers remember the pre-1991 days, as I’m fortunate enough to not.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

I’m trying to keep my excitement in check

I hear ya on that. After the unholy trio of losses to Mississippi State, Louisiana Monroe and Auburn last year, I’m gonna temper my enthusiasm until the season is complete. He has to beat Auburn. 7 in a row would be devastating. One of the biggest reasons he was hired to me was because of the one for the thumb obnoxiousness. I don’t expect them to be contenders for the SEC championship this year but he has to beat Auburn. 8 wins and beating Auburn would meet my expectations.

By Chop Chop

September 4, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Andalusia with fields full of grain.

Hmm…

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Trucker Fan, you’re right on my view. I was sitting on a column thing next to a planter, on the side directly in front of Raging Burrito (got there late, after watching Anna Kramer & the Lost Cause do a free show over at Grant Park). I feel like an idiot now. Couldn’t even see who was on pedal steel or drums, but heard him introduce the band under another name, and I honestly couldn’t hear any of their individual names. Had a good view of Patterson, but not much else.

Anyway, very good show. And thanks for correcting.

By bobby

September 4, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

My money is on the Nationals to finish fourth.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, I’m gonna bet that the Metallica album, with Rick Rubin producing, is gonna be solid. They’ve had a lot of time to get it right, and a lot of negative reaction from St. Anger (though I liked it, personally). So I’ll be it’s more a conventional Metallica old-school album.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention when I called Carroll with the other lineup and Jo-Jo updates: Kotchman is back in lineup today. And more importantly, his mom’s out of hospital. Very good news. She was in ICU for quite a while.

By pinkygonzales

September 4, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

If Jeff does indeed have trade value, as Joe says, I repeat what I have said all along. Now is the time to try to sign him to a very club friendly deal, and lock him up for a few years. If this year is an abberation, then we have locked him up at a very good rate for the next 4-5 years. And if he continues to not produce, we can still trade him because his deal will be such that some other team would be more than happy to take the risk on him. Sign him now. He’ll never be cheaper.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

For Jeff to help the Braves, he’s got to have at least 100RBI, an OBP of around 400, hit at least .300 with RISP, and hit at least 20-25 HR’s. Those are some legit power numbers that would help the Braves.

An OBP of .400? That’s unreasonable. He’ll most likely never come within 50 points of that. What they really need out of Francoeur is true power as exemplified by an IsoP of .200+.

.270 AVG, .325 OBP and a .470 SLG out of Francoeur is what they need at a minimum. That would take 175 hits, 50 walks, 40 doubles, 30 homers if he gets 700 plate appearances as he got in the two previous seasons.

That’s reasonable although at this point I have to seriously doubt if he can achieve it anymore. Demanding a .400 OBP out Francoeur however is completely absurd.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

retiredscout i can see why you “retired”.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Scout- We’ve all been sick of Chipper’s injuries for like 4 years now. He’s our best hitter for all that time so we kinda bow down to him, and apparantely so does Bobby. No doubt, he is getting older which some injuries can be expected. I don’t think Chipper is one to call anybody out so he over-exagerates an injury to get at the slackers.

By Numb Skull

September 4, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Here’s a stat:

Prior to the All-Star break, the Braves allowed 3 runs or less 31 times (I think). Since the All-Star break, they have done it 5 times.

By N8

September 4, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Carroll & DOB

Great News about Parr starting. We’ve needed a starter that can get “Naughty Naughty”…..er….what’s that? That was John Parr?

Never mind.

By Robbie T

September 4, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Gayle,Don’t look now but Mike Hampton is the best pitcher on the staff right now.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

supes For Jeff to help the Braves, he’s got to have at least 100RBI, an OBP of around 400, hit at least .300 with RISP, and hit at least 20-25 HR’s.

jeff is never going to have a .400 OBP. honestly, i think a .333 OBP would be plenty for jeff if he would hit the homers and doubles like your talking about and slug .480-.500. but i think .400 OBP is out of the question for jeff francouer.

DOB thanx for the update on kotchman’s mom. thats great news, and it has to be a weight off of his shoulders.

By Threadkiller

September 4, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

I have another suggestion..Let’s keep Jeff and trade the Braves anouncers! I can’t stand listening to the stupidity that comes out of ALL these guys!

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Talk about hard luck. I was doing ondeck box and check out these numbers for tomorrow’s Washington starter Jason Bergmann: He’s 1-9 with a 4.36 ERA in 19 games (18 starts) since May 20, and the Nationals scored two runs or fewer while he was in 12 of those 18 starts.

By Jeff321

September 4, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Well, it ought to be interesting checking out what Mr. Parr has to offer tonight!

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

George Brett missed over 225 games from the age of 30 through 36. Chipper has missed about 200 games during the same age span and Chipper has not been able to hide at a less physically demanding position like DH at the same age the way Brett did. And as for Chipper having a weak year for a batting title contender, Brett’s numbers in 1990 at the age of 37 when he won a batting title were not as good as Chipper’s numbers this year at the age of 36 when he is contending for one.

By Braves 2008, RIP

September 4, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

we’re rested and ready to cover these Braves

ok then. the prayers have been said. start shovelling the dirt on ‘em.

By Blaine Boyer is NOT a large vat of gas

September 4, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Well who will win the coveted 2008 Dan Kolb gasman of the year award for the Braves? It takes special talent to come in game after game and throw away a hard night’s work by your starter by dumping gas on the already firey situation. So many candidates: Blaine Boyer would my personal pick.

Get Real. GOO. not GAS. GOO.

Blaine Boyer is just dripping with goo. So it’s only natural if he dumps a little of it here and there.

By bruce

September 4, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

That’s awesome news about Kotchman’s mom getting out of ICU.

By Braves blow now for sure

September 4, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

It don’t matter who pitches for the Nat’s they going kill the braves anyway .

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, fine post at 5:55. Of course, you made the mistake of using actual facts. Try going on selective memory and emotion and not let nagging facts undercut your argument.

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop Your 5:17 was a terrific tribute to a tripping troubadour.

By Goose Gossage

September 4, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

What is the plural of Goo?

What if Jo Jo Reyes and Blaine Boyer walked into a room together?

What do you say?

Here come the Goo? Here come the Goos?

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

BossLady, Big E, etownbrave, and BA and all the others—

First off, I’d like to thank you all for your kind words! I’m honored to get your votes for ROY. I must say, when the season began, I never expected this.

This year has been a humbling one for sure, as far as the direction of the team goes. It’s not too hard to be devoted to a player who’s having as good a year at the plate as BMac. His defense has not been great, as we all know. He has shown a little improvement over last year in the throwing depot. (He’s thrown out a career-high 20 base runners this year!) But obviously there is lots of room for improvement.

BossLady—

Thank you very much for the adjectives used to describe my posts. I appreciate it! I try my best to be funny…doesn’t always work, though…

Big E—

I hope BMac tears it up big time, too! He’s gotta pick it up just a bit (and Grove needs to cool off) to secure that second Silver Slugger!

etownbrave—

Glad I’m fun for you to follow. My goal for the year was to stay positive and just have fun watching the Braves. While not every game has been fun to watch, it’s always fun to contribute to the Blog.

My sister and I just came in from playing some ball. The weather was nice today—83º, feels like 83º!

Staying up for politics doesn’t bother The Bird too much. I usually stay in the computer room with him so he cann eat (he’s kinda chubby) while my Mom, Dad, and Brother watch the political stuff. As long as he’s with me, he’s happy (he’s weird that way). But when the games run late, the computer goes off so he cann go to sleep since nobody’s in here with him.

GREAT NEWS ABOUT KOTCHMAN’S MOM!!

As far as pitching goes…Tonight will be the Battle of the Newbies!

By Goose Gosling

September 4, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

But what if Goose Gossage and I, Goose Gosling, walked into a room together?

Would you say here come the Gooses? Or here come the Geese?

By N8

September 4, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Nobody finds (found), the “John” Parr reference funny?

Damn! Should have went with St. Elmo’s Fire instead.

Oh well.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Bruce, not just out of ICU — according to Cox, she was released from the hospital today, allowed to go home.

By Jim

September 4, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Retired scout is absolutely right on. We all love Chipper for what he has meant to this franchise in the past, but he cannot be a cornerstone for the future. Chipper’s role for a team now would be more akin to the role Yogi Bera played for the 1961 Yankees — still a valuable contributror and a nice player to play a supporting part, but no longer capable of playing a leading role for the team. (Unfortunately the current Braves have no Mantle, Maris, or Ford for Chipper to “support”.)

Chipper has tailed off dramatically since the hot start and his power numbers have dropped precipitously. Kelly Johnson has not received much “love” on this blog, but he has more extra base hits this year than Chipper (or anyone else on the current roster not named McCann). We’ve been too polite to identify Chipper as one of the reasons for this team’s decline, but the lofty average that is largely the result of 2 month’s work has masked his lack of productivity and his increasingly more numerous defensive lapses.

It is a reasonable question to ask if Chipper will have his heart into playing for a rebuilding club or will have a positive impact on such a team. It is also reasonable to speculate what his trade value would be. Anders suggests that a trade of Chipper and KJ to the Yankees could net Cano and Hughes. I doubt it. Given the decline in Chipper’s power number and defense, and his recurring injuries, it is not clear that Chipper gives the Yankees a better option at 1B than Giambi. It is also not obvious what major league team needs Chipper as that missing supporting player that could put them over the top. The likelihood that Chipper could bring back sufficient value in talent/prospects is almost as remote as the possibility that JF (or any other member of the Braves save McCann or possibly Escobar) could bring back equal value in a trade. Those of you trying to trade JF and or KJ for the likes of Cain or Grienke are smoking a substance that isn’t availble at a retail outlet in the mall.

By BT

September 4, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

McFann, if Brian McCann was hitting .228 like our famed right fielder you would still be getting the sympathy vote for ROY. Great year for McFann!

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

If Parr blows out a ligament tonight, do we all say Parr for the course?

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

DOB, your 6:11 made me laugh out loud. Good stuff.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

It’s not too hard to be devoted to a player who’s having as good a year at the plate as BMac

Must be fun to be a fannatical nut for a guy who plays with the bat of Mike Piazza and the soul of Thurman Munson.

By still watching

September 4, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

so does anyone have a scouting report on james parr?

By Blaine Boyer is a large vat of goo

September 4, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Must be fun to be a fannatical nut for a guy…

Guilty as charged! We’re cookoo for goo guy.

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Braveheart- Yes, but a rotation including Byrd and Parr would make Smoltz happy.

By fifthbusiness

September 4, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Ten Reasons to watch the Braves until Oct.

10) What color uniform sucks the most 9) Can Josh and Greogor change Bobby to small ball 8) What young picther has the right stuff 7) can Joe and Boog come up with a more affective Disney character for a rally monkey. 6) will feffy hit over .200 5) Will Jorge bring up more friends from Mexico 4) Will Chipper bat in a will chair to the batting championship. 3) What will Shurholtz do. 2) What will Bobby do 1) My mother in law makes me.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

BT—

Heh heh, thanks. Let’s hope his AVG is never that low! (Though it was close to that in the month of June—well, .244.)

Braveheart—

I don’t know who Thurman Munson is, sorry.

But I do agree that I’m a “fannatical nut”.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Actually, Braveheart, BMac doesn’t have the bat of Mike Piazza…

He has the bat of Brian McCann!

Pizza Boy had a few more homers and less doubles.

By Bobby's Cox

September 4, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

I’d like to thank McFann for cluing me in on the nitram odarp origins from last blog….even though I haven’t posted, yes, i’ve kept myself updated.

It’s situations like this that remind me that McFann has the ability to go beyond the McCann talk, even though the pour of support from her teenage infatuation will always lead her back there. I have no doubt that talk will continue to resonate from the desktop of where her keyboard types, well beyond McCann’s years, much like the honorary talk of Johnny Bench decades past his retirement.

McFann, blog ROY? Absolutly. When the blog goes out of their way to get the girl a bobblehead giveaway that she missed, well…that speaks for itself.

As far as MVB? Braveheart is right….too many names. And, of course, the legendary Bravehearts name would be in that list. No matter how many times he throws $1000 bets at me, his syntax and articulation will always be a fan favorite.

The year’s not over. Hopefully the post button at the bottom of the comment box doesn’t suffer to be hit by cursors as the braves continue their fight to stay out of the division cellar.

Go braves.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who Thurman Munson is, sorry.

OMG! Rookie mistake admitting that. You still got the ROY by a landslide but just lost a ton of MVB votes with that devastating admission.

Go Big Blue!

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

It’s not too hard to be devoted to a player who’s having as good a year at the plate as BMac

What I really meant by that rather odd statement was that most of the credit for my “success” goes to Brian’s terrific year.

I just sit in front of the computer/TV and cheer…He’s doing all the work!

By Interested Observer

September 4, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves playing their home games in Miami now?

I guess the “Somebody’s Gotta Win” series isn’t a big draw!

By Bobby's Cox

September 4, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Well, this slipped my last post, but McFann also brought us the rally turtle this year…true designations of reform and “hope we can believe in” during these recession years in the bottom of the standings.

Football season has officially started. College ball last weekend, and the NFL right now.

For all those fair weather “fans” that couldn’t wait for football season, I hope you’re having fun watching the Giants and Redskins right now as our struggling Braves take on the lowly Nats.

I’m watching the Braves.

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Chipper possibly scores on BMac’s single if he hustles and takes the extra base on his hit. He has been a real dog running out hits lately. Maybe he’s hurt or something but if not he’s not giving it 100%.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Pizza Boy had a few more homers and less doubles.

True but their age 24 seasons are very similar if you look at AVG, OBP, SLG and OPS+. And McCann has done far more with the bat through the age of 24 than Piazza did. As McCann gets older, I would expect some of McCann’s doubles to turn into homers. And McCann steals more bases than Piazza. :)

It’s funny. I remember when Piazza had that ROY year at the age of 24 in 1993. Everyone went nuts about a catcher who could hit like that. Shamefully, McCann on the other hand gets largely ignored outside of Atlanta. Sometimes I wonder if anyone but us and fantasy baseball players know who he is.

They’re too busy loving on Mauer to realize that our little best kept secret is better than Mauer, stays healthier and plays even when he is not healthy. I can do without a brittle singles hitting catcher. Give me the catcher with pop who plays even when hobbled.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox—

Thank you. You’re right. Too many names for MVB to give that honor to me. I should be near the bottom of that list.

Oh yeah, well beyond Mac’s retirement, I’ll still talk about him all the time! And when he gets inducted into the HOF, you’ll hear from me!

; )

Another base hit for the Macster!

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Pretty impressive so far by this kid Parr, who looks like he has a good idea how to go about this pitching at the big-league level.

By Lew

September 4, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Joe Simpson jsut made a good point on Francoeur’s line drive to right. He hit a pitch with some authority that he would have tried to pull and grounded to short earlier this year. Maybe there is hope for him.

My wife is the lucky one in the family tonight. She’s at the Rays/Yankees game in St. Pete. Well, maybe not so lucky-she IS there with my Mother In Law. She sent pictures and the stadium is half empty or more. Reminiscent of a playoff game in Atlanta.

By Run Heap Run!

September 4, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Hey kids…and kudos for McFann..I have enjoyed you as well. :)

By Brian

September 4, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t want to bash Chipper too much but there is no doubt,he’s pouting and has been for awhile. We all know Chipper isn’t a vocal leader and I think it might hurt a team like this. Yeah, he can get on your nerves a little. Francoeur is a good leader but he has no example to follow.

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Nice play by Kelly….Parr throwing a nice game so far (knock on wood).

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Well nice to see Kelly, and Kotchman back in the lineup, but a bumer to see Prado out. But I certainly understand why Kelly is in there, he is hot. But I think it’s time for him to move to the outfield, to have both prado and kelly in the lineup.

By Bobby's Cox

September 4, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Good news about Kotcman’s mother. Hopefully now the kid can focus on playing ball and stop grounding out to 1B, ahem, when he gets his feet wet again. I didn’t see that first AB, right (eyes shut).

I’d like to see some production out of the kid by the end of the season so I feel more optimistic about next season.

Maybe the Braves can sign an Angel to make him more comfortable. Will Juan Rivera be available? That dude is clutch. Was watching the Angel/Texas game last Thursday night. Angels were down 5-3 in the bottom of the 8th and Rivera pinched-hit with the bases juiced. Lined a ball off the center field wall to give Anaheim a 6-5 lead. A lot of fans here have wanted Rivera to start in the outfield all year. He’d be a good bat in the Braves lineup. Rivera, infante, prado, Chipper, McCann….that’s a lot of consistent bats, whether they come off the bench or not. Throw a power bat in there (maybe by eliminating Frenchy?) and that could be a formidable lineup, especially with speed at the top of the order (anderson?).

Now what to do with the pitching. I have followed many other teams “near ML ready” pitchers, but if we can find another Jurrjens (maybe Aaron Laffey? - Cleveland has poor 2B production - KJ trade?) and couple him with Lowe, that would be a start.

Gotta love speculation.

By Interested Observer

September 4, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Are the Nats considered “big league level”?

By JPS

September 4, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Can Parr really have a big league future with an 85-86mph fast ball, and what wouldn’t be called pin point control?

Somebody give me your starting 9 for next year, and will be really compete or be in transition next year?

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Maybe he’s hurt or something but if not he’s not giving it 100%.keylargo

You really aren’t aware that Chipper missed the past two games with a sore knee?

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Real heads-up play by Kelly running hard down from third on the sac fly….good baserunning by Chipper.

By bravos2249

September 4, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Before any of you go on a ripping Chipper rant…why would any team or why SHOULD any team build around a 35-36 yr old? Come on now people, use your sommon sense. No matter how good a player you are, a team should never EVER build around a player close to their 40’s. Especially when they claim to have the hometown “suppastar”.

By Jeff321

September 4, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

Parr’s delivery reminds me of Charlie Morton.

Anyway, he seems to be doing good so far.

By nfieldr

September 4, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

This kid Parr is from my neighborhood here in Albuquerque. There was a fairly big piece in the local paper this morning about him making his ML debut. Apparently, McDowell informed him last night on the plane from Miami that he was starting today. Glad to see him doing well so far. Hope he continues to make it through the Nats lineup the 2nd time ok.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox—

Can’t forget McTurtle! Thanks for mentioning him (he appreciates it).

Braveheart—

Hmm…Good points on the comparison between McCann and Pizza Boy. I forgot about the age factor. And yeah, McCann steals many more bases!

It is very sad that McCann gets so little recognition outside of Atlanta. I think other people know who he is—well, the players around the league do. And Clint Hurdle…he sorta knows who he is…

Mauer does throw out more base-runners, but there’s much more to catching than that! And I concur: I cann do without the “brittle singles hitting catcher”. McCann in the MAN!

Run, Heap, Run!—

Thanks. I’ve enjoyed you, too!

And McCann finally ties Tex for the team lead in RBI!

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Well so far what i’ve seen from Parr, is a good fastball in a range of 86-90mph, a good changeup, and a slow curveball 68-72mph. His control, is a little bit erratic at times, as many young pitchers do. And has trouble locating that big slow curveball. Joe Simpson said he looked like Kyle Davies, I just hope Parr proves to be much better than Kyle, and prove Joe wrong.

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Yes, I am aware he sat out two games so that he would be healthy to play. I don’t expect him to sit out two games and come back less than 100%. Did you notice a limp I missed?

By BossLady

September 4, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Ah man, who does not like McCann? He is a top of the line catcher with terrific skills at the plate. PURE HITTER is what he definitely displays.

Overall his personality and modest way of accepting praise he “so” deserves is delightful.

It’s easy for people to like him so much.

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Carlos Zambrano has tendinities, not good for the cubbies. They still have Dempster, but Harden needs to stay healthy at least. Lilly, and Marquis not enough in the playoff.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 4, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

OK, McCann’s at .297 now.

And the AVG with RISP was not effected by the sac-fly. That was only his second sac-fly of the year!

2-0 Braves! Go Parr!

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Parr has a little sink to that fastball.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Old Hoss can still make some reflex plays with the best of ‘em.

This kid Parr is throwing a two-hit shutout, folks.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

It’s way too soon to judge Parr, but he might turn out better than Morton and Reyes. Baseball is weird that way.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 4, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

BossLady Overall his personality and modest way of accepting praise he “so” deserves is delightful.

That’s what “attracted” (for lack of a better word) me to him.

And it’s not that people don’t like him, just that they don’t realize how good he really is—and that’s prob’ly because he’s quiet and doesn’t want to draw attention to himself.

Man! His AVG went down a point.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

I don’t expect him to sit out two games and come back less than 100%.Keylargo

Why not, he’s come back at less than 100 percent numerous times the past few years, including this year with the quad injury.

If he waits until he’s 100 percent, he probably wouldn’t play again this season. Rarely is he 100 percent anymore, healthwise. Not at 36, with his history.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Are the Nats considered “big league level”?Interested Observer

I don’t know, ask the Dodgers or Phillies. They just swet a three-game series against the Dodgers and took two of three from the Phillies, with a sweep of the Braves between those two series wins against contenders.

By Jeremy Shockey was a large vat of goo

September 4, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Check out the Giants vs. Redskins.

Giants have a patch on their jersey that says “GU”.

Those knuckleheads. Don’t they know how to spell GOO?

New Yorkers - oy vey!

By BravesFan79

September 4, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Can yall blame me for not wanting CRAP like Elijah Dukes on the team?

Dukes with the Devil Ray peeked his head into the Twins’ family room at the Metrodome after a victory at Minnesota and shouted into a room full of kids. “We just kicked your daddies’ [a*].

Dukes also fathered at least five children with four women between 2003 and 2006.

Including recently fathered a child of a 17 year old girl. He then threw a gatorade at the girl when confronted about the pregnancy.

He threatened his estranged ex-wife and her children in a voice mail in which he said, “Hey, dawg. It’s on, dawg. You dead, dawg…Your kids, too.”

I say Bobby Cox goes out into retirement with a bang and tells his pitchers to go after this guy!

By Dick Cheney

September 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

It’s easy for people to like him (McCann)so much.

Arrgh. I don’t like him. Arrgh.

Let’s see how well he does after a little waterboarding.

Arrgh!

And McFann, we’re watching you.

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

nfieldr It’s always fun to see a kid from the neighborhood make it. The broadcast showed his mom in the stands a couple of times as well.

By Random

September 4, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

richbrave —

If you’re still looking for Furman Bisher’s email address, he wrote to tell me it is as follows:

Furman Bisher furman@ajc.com

I did not tell him why I was asking, so it’s up to you to get him your good idea for a column.

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

DOB

I will tell you a rule I learned to go by on going to second base. If the ball is on the ground and the RF has his back to the infield, you best be going to second. That rule is used when rounding 1st. Chipper was in that position and watched the RF turn around and go after the ball.

With two outs and Chipper on second, BMac flares one down the LF line. If Chipper is going on contact he is rounding third before the ball hits the ground and scores. Braves 1 Nationals 0

If it’s OK with you to give a half azz effort, that’s you. I don’t like it much.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Asked a couple of guys about the pitiful crowds they saw at Dolphin Stadium this week.

WILL OHMAN: “Coffin Stadium. It had all the atmosphere of a playoff game … in the Arizona Fall League.”

When I mentioned to him that I attended a couple of Fall League games last year, including a night game with a fairly enthusiastic crowd, Ohman said, “OK, then it had all the atmosphere of a rookie-ball, extended-spring game.”

CHIPPER JONES: “I don’t want this to reflect poorly on the Marlins in any way, but I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed to be playing [in that atmosphere]…. They have a very good team that’s fun to watch. Some guys doing some special things. And nobody’s there to see it. South Florida’s missing a treat.”

Rookie BRENT LILLIBRIDGE said the 600 or so that attended Wednesday’s series finale against the Marlins was probably smaller than crowds he played in front of all season at Richmond, where attendance was down in the Braves’ last year at that old relic of a ballpark.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 4, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Wow! Nice play, Brian!

By Wayne :-)

September 4, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Sometimes a little “head-hunting” can be a good thing for a baseball team. Although I wouldn’t go after a guy because he was a loser. Bob Gibson did it right.

Nice play by Baby Huey!

By ??????

September 4, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

If he waits until he’s 100 percent, he probably wouldn’t play again this season. Rarely is he 100 percent anymore, healthwise. Not at 36, with his history.

Then why were you one of the people who said the Braves should extend the guy? Sooner or later his numbers will take a dive. His ability could go away all of a sudden. It has happened before….Roberto Alomar. Trading Chipper Jones should be the priority this offseason. The team will be better in 2011. Trade the guy for 2-3 very good prospects. Some team will bite.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Fer cryin’ out loud! That was dumb! Now you’re back where you started from: .295! And your AVG with RISP is down to .285! Fiddlesticks!

Wayne :-)—

Yeah. It was a nice play. But he sorta killed it with the K.

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Hmmm….

Chipper Jones, 2008, baseball statistics: .358/.456/.566, 349(!) EqA, 1.022 OPS

This is incredibly good. If the man is playing less than 100%, then this is still incredibly good.

Chipper Jones, career: .310/.406/.547, .319 EqA, .953 OPS.

If Chipper has a precipitous fall back to his career numbers, he is still a very good baseball player, a hall-of-famer, if you will. These are the kinds of players you want on your team. You do not want to simply “get rid” of these players.

Some people are stupid.

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Oh, and congratulations to James Parr, who had one heck of a big league debut tonight.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

DOB- Kind of a wierd question but just curious. Didn’t Chipper have mouth cancer a couple of years ago from dipping? If he did he hasn’t learned from it cause he always has a dip in. Man, I seem like a Chipper basher today but he’s my favorite.

By Random

September 4, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

just a short while ago: *”richbrave — If you’re still looking for Furman Bisher’s email address, he wrote to tell me it is as follows: *Furman Bisher furman@ajc.com … *I did not tell him why I was asking, so it’s up to you to get him your good idea for a column.”

Well, I double-checked the address I used in writing to Mr Bisher (‘cause the first name@etc address I just gave you looked kinda weird.)

The address I initially used for the email I sent to Mr Bisher and to which he replied was fbisher@ajc.com.

The address from which his reply came was the previously mentioned Furman Bisher furman@ajc.com.

I’d advise you to try him at both addresses.

Good luck.

(-8

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

So, do you think the Marlins will draw with a new stadium? (even an air-conditioned one)

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

BRAVES WIN!! BRAVES WIN!! BRAVES WIN!!

Congrats to James Parr! I hope he has a lot more of those games in him!

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Way to go. Long time since the Braves pitched a shut out. Good job James Parr.

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

If you would have told me in April that James Parr, Jeff Bennett, Julian Tavarez, and Mike Gonzalez would combine for a shutout in August, I probably would have said “who is James Parr?” and then proceeded to call you crazy.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

SIGN MIKE GONZALEZ and WILL OHMAN.

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater

The Marlins stadium is on hold. There is no assurance it will be built.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH—

Very funny at 9:46! Haha…

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

No comments about our “old relic of a park” Mr. O’BRIEN. Its not yours to criticize any longer. The lease was released today. Thank you.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

RANDOM:

Thanx man. I’ll give both a try.

By We still trading Johnson?

September 4, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Well…….are we?

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Keylargo

Sorry, I forgot you were down there. Well what do you think?

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

PARR did a good job here in RICHMOND after he was brought up. Remember however, the “book” is not out on him yet in the bigs. Wait until he’s been through the league twice before anointing him for St. Savior of ATLANTA. He certainly looked great tonight though didn’t he.?

My man CHARLIE MORTON’s still having his issues, mostly of his own making in my estimation. Too many balls, not enough strikes. When SMOLTZ was struggling early in his BRAVES career, the team hired a shrink to analyze and assist him. Wow, did that ever pay off. May be time for deja vous in that regard.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Good to have a shutout!

Let’s hope they take advantage of Bergmann tomorrow night!

Night, all!

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

wow super night! Chipper one point away!!!!!!!!!

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Here is an article about the status of the new Marlins Stadium. I apologize to those not interested for the length.

This is part of an MLB.com/floridamarlins.com exclusive series with Marlins president David Samson chronicling the progress and developments of the new retractable-roof stadium that is scheduled to open in 2011. As part of the series, which will run twice monthly, fans are encouraged to e-mail David at d.samson@flamarlins.com. The fan who presents the best suggestion for this two-week period will receive free tickets to an upcoming Marlins game.

MIAMI — Miami-Dade County residents had their say last week, and they voted in favor of those who support a new stadium for the Marlins.

The Aug. 26 elections in Miami-Dade County had a direct connection to the Marlins efforts to get construction under way on a retractable-roof stadium in the Little Havana section of Miami.

At a time where there is a legal challenge to the project, several local politicians who voted in favor of the baseball park were up for re-election on Aug. 26. All of them won.

Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Alvarez won by nearly a 2-to-1 margin, and several county commissioners also were voted back into office by comfortable margins.

“The night of Aug. 26 was very, very important in the timeline of the stadium project, as well as, really, the success of Miami, which is a great city,” Samson said.

Auto dealer Norman Braman is legally challenging some aspects of funding for the new ballpark, along with the financing of a $3 billion mega-plan for a number of ambitious projects. Not just a Marlins’ stadium is at stake here for Miami. There are a number of projects impacted by the lawsuit, including a Port of Miami tunnel and revamping Bicentennial Park.

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Jeri Beth Cohen, who also was re-elected on Aug. 26, still has to make two final rulings in the case. The decisions should come by the middle of the month.

Braman has said he would consider dropping his lawsuit if the projects were put to the public vote.

The political process did come into play last Tuesday, because the county residents had their chance to have their voices heard in the voting booths.

Elected back into office were Alvarez, along with Miami-Dade County commissioners Audrey Edmonson, Joe Martinez and Bruno Barreiro.

“There was a referendum, and it was called the Mayoral election,” Samson said. “Mayor Alvarez was convincingly re-elected by the people of Miami-Dade County, thereby showing their support of him, the mayor, and these projects, including our stadium.

“The fact is the people did vote, and the judge can see that these commissioners and this mayor have time and time again supported not only this stadium, but other downtown projects. The people in each district had a chance to review what their commissioners stand for, and how they have voted in the past, and how they have voted on the projects. The people have spoken.”

Even with the lawsuit in a holding pattern, the Marlins have remained active on the stadium front.

When the team was in Arizona recently, Samson and representatives for the Marlins park, including Miami-Dade County manager George Burgess, took a tour of two facilities with roofs: Chase Field (Diamondbacks) and University of Phoenix Stadium (NFL’s Arizona Cardinals).

“When we were in Arizona, everyone got a chance to see what a downtown stadium [Chase Field] can offer and a rural stadium, which is what University of Phoenix Stadium is. That helped them see what what a new stadium could be like in Little Havana, which is maybe a mile-and-a-half from downtown Miami.

“We wanted everyone to see the roof at Chase Field, and the University of Phoenix Stadium, which has a fabric roof, a very unique roof.”

University of Phoenix Stadium has already been the host of a Super Bowl, and the annual Tostitos Fiesta Bowl.

So many new ballparks are making major economic impacts in their respective communities. The Arizona Cardinals, for instance, contribute $150 million to the local economy each year, and the Fiesta Bowl brings in another $140 million.

These big economic numbers are not being lost on South Florida officials. For instance, the second round of the 2009 World Baseball Classic will be played at Dolphin Stadium, the Marlins’ current home. The event is expected to pour $25 million into South Florida for those few days.

Representatives from HOK Sport, hired to design the Marlins new ballpark, and Hunt/Moss, the construction manager for the project, were part of the team’s contingent that traveled to Arizona. The group also had representatives from companies that make retractable roofs.

“It was a very, very important trip,” Samson said. “We’re also going to make a trip to Minute Maid Park [in Houston] to see another roof facility.”

Joe Frisaro is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

By Jake

September 4, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Good game tonight, not sure when was the last time we threw a shutout. Nice first outing for Parr. Julian Taveraz has really been good for us. I don’t know if he makes the bullpen next year but I think he has definately earned some consideration. Gonzo was good as usual when the save is on the line. Nice to see KJ remain hot. If only he could find a way to do it consistently. Right now he’s kind of bouncing between the extremes. Him and Prado are both tearing it up. I think it will be interesting to see what we do with the position next year because I don’t think we have to go somewhere else to fill it unlike the outfield.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Mike Gonzalez is such a motivated person. He brings great hype and can you imagine once we start winning and seeing him more? That laroche trade is beginning to blossom! I’m so glad we have a legit CLOSER for the first time since J. Smoltz! He has soo much fire in him it excites me! He seals a satisfying win and he should stay forever! Now lets work on other parts and bring back the braves AND shut Sniper and other down. We will raise again oneday. I believe.

By TheAntiMe

September 4, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

The silver lining to this apocalypse of a season:

Even if the Braves reel-off 20 straight wins they would still get a pretty high pick in next year’s draft.

By JC from UT

September 4, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

For all those saying Chipper could/should be traded (which I disagree with) don’t you think one of the Texas teams or Arizona makes more sence than NY. These teams are much closer to his ranch and Houston and Arizona both have good chances of winning. Say Chipper to Houston for Ty Wigginton and a couple pitching prospects. Or Arizona for Mark Reynolds and Micah Owings.

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

I have gone a couple of times to pro player stadium, in fact it’s the only big league park i’ve ever gone to, and to tell you the truth, I prefer to watch the games in TV. First off, the stadium is far for almost everybody in miami, the stadium is horrible, and when there are small crowds, the atmosphere is not so good. But day games during the week are the toughest for the fans to go to their ball games. And you add the fact that miami is hot and humid. I can certainly understand why they have small crowds.

By the way I was watching the Tampa, Yankee game, and at least there fans fill that stadium when they are in first place. From tv tropicana field is horrible to me but, at least it has a roof, and there is no sun, or rain. That Willy Aybar trade for Ridgeway is looking pretty bad for the Braves, Aybar is playing really well.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

With performances like tonight’s, I see the #1 pick slowly slipping away.!!

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

RANDOM:

I sent e-mails, but I have no way of knowing if FURMAN received them. A virus damaged mine and I cannot receive responses. For all I know, the missive may be floating in cyberspace.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

If Chipper has a precipitous fall back to his career numbers, he is still a very good baseball player, a hall-of-famer, if you will. These are the kinds of players you want on your team. You do not want to simply “get rid” of these players. Some people are stupid.

Steve from OH, I don’t think it is as simple as wanting to just get rid of Chipper. The heart of course says you can’t get rid of him. He should retire a Brave and should hit his 500th homer as a Brave but he is getting older and is injured alot and they don’t have a DH position to get his bat in the lineup when he is hurting too much and they don’t have backups who provide anywhere near the comparable production.

It’s a legit concern to be worried about when the heart of the order is gonna consist of two players guaranteed to miss at least 30 games each before the season even starts.

No one wants to see him go but there are alot of tough questions that need to be asked about how to move on from this mess and what will take this team from the valley they are currently in all the way up to the top of the mountain. Is Chipper gonna make it all the way back up to the top of the mountain with them? Is Smoltz? Is Glavine? Is Bobby? And the top of the mountain is not gonna be just division titles and playoff appearances. It’s winning the World Series.

I dunno and I don’t envy Wren right now. He’s got some tough questions to ponder about how best to proceed. I imagine Wren probably gained alot of insight as to how best to proceed with an aging beloved increasingly injured superstar when he was with the Os and had to deal with the Ripken dilemma.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater: No, I don’t think Marlins will draw at a new ballpark, particularly not if located at site of old Orange Bowl.

And until the cranes are going and the walls are going up, I’m going to have doubts about whether it’ll ever get built there. This has been going on for literally more than a decade, this pursuit of a ballpark.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater: No, I don’t think Marlins will draw at a new ballpark, particularly not if located at site of old Orange Bowl.

And until the cranes are going and the walls are going up, I’m going to have doubts about whether it’ll ever get built there. This has been going on for literally more than a decade, this pursuit of a ballpark.

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

For all those wanting to trade Chipper, please shhhh, the pie hole. Chipper is the face of the franchise, and has a good chance of winning the batting title. Can you imagine this team without Chipper. Be serious. He still has 3 more years in him of at least 120 games. The Braves do need to have a high quality prospect that play’s third base, after he’s done. Maybe in next years draft they can focus on picking a third baseman, and starting pitchers on their top draft picks.

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Tomas

I don’t know the market very well. I was just curious whether the low attendance was because of weather, or because they traded their “stars”, or the transient population whose “home teams” may be in Boston, New York, etc.

By larry

September 4, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

My namesake was embarressed because of the Florida crowd, but not embarressed by the Braves play in soooooo many horrible games this season?? Go figure.

By Mr. Knee-Jerk Reaction

September 4, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Well, at least we’ve found an ace to pair with Jurrjens next season.

By brian

September 4, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Looking at the crowd yesterday, I would bet the Marlins end up in Charlotte. It would put them in the biggest market in the Southeast without a MLB team. That would make a great rival with both Atlanta and Washington

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I personally don’t see that many “impact” type players that FW can compete for. I hope I’m wrong. So it’s going to have to be the farm and patience.

Good luck.

By Tomas

September 4, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Coach Tater,

What I was trying to say was that it is not a comfortable ball park, and that is far away for most people. They have the team, they’re still in contention, and even when they were in first place, they still got awfull crowds. Yes they have traded, Carlos Delgado, Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo, Josh Becket, Mike Lowell, Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, but even with those stars in their team, they still got pathetic crowds. That stadium only gets full during the playoff’s. Right now they have a good team. Hanley Ramirez one of the brightest stars in the game today, Dan Uggla an all star, Josh Johnson tremendous ace, Chris Volstad pretty exciting rookie. I prefer to see the Marlins than the Nationals, Pirates, Reds, Giants, Padres, Mariners, Bluejays, Indians, Royals, simply because they have a better team, but 696 fans for a stadium that has 68000 available seats.

By SNIPER-69

September 4, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

What I love most about this season is that the brave fans are being humbled. for years the braves fan base were so arrogant and addressed the rest of the baseball fan base as unworthy. Welcome to the world of bottom feeders. The only way to the playoffs is through cable TV!!!

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Tomas, others: I think it’s highly unlikely the Braves trade Chipper, either this winter or beyond. I believe there’s still a very good chance he’ll retire a Brave.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

ATLANTA’s crowd look pretty slim tonight as well, or as SKIP was wont to say during the lean times “…many fans are here tonight disguised as seats…”

By Couch Tater

September 4, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Snipe-Not the rest of the baseball fan base, just the Mets.

By Brian

September 5, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Sniper- Yeah, we’ll be watching the Muts getting smoked in the playoffs. Anyway, the Muts and the fans have not only always been arogant but very ignorant baseball people!! What the hell do you have to be so sure they will even get in the playoffs? YOU’RE LIKE A LITTLE POODLE SCRATCHING AT A PIT BULL WHEN IT GOT SHOT! YOU ARE SAD!

By Scalp 'Em Braves

September 5, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Been a LONG while since I stated my opinion here. Have read DOB’s blogs regularly, but not much else. Miss posts from Journalist Jimmy Smith, Grinch, Robert, and even the bigoted redneck Southern JackA$$. But, some of us have jobs, lives, etc., and just don’t have time, or can’t afford to spend all of our time arguing about things over which we have no control, except for DOB of course - he gets paid to for this. You da man DOB! (and a tip of the hat to Ms. Carroll, who fills in admirably when DOB is goofing off).

Forget about the Frenchy trade talk. It ain’t gonna happen. Yes, he has had a horrible year, offensively. Defensively, he has been stellar. He has played more innings than any other RF in the league, has fewer errors than others who have played lesser innings, and is kicking butt in the assist department. He is on track for his second straight gold glove. You don’t toss a guy like this, who has shown promise at the plate, because of one bad year offensively. For some reason, he has become a head case this year. Hopefully, he will agree to Fall Ball, or some other means of allowing him to work and get things straightened out. But, trading him? Hell NO!

We definitely need help in LF. CF is a question mark too. I like Josh Anderson. Good in the field, not bad with the bat - needs to hit with more power in the bigs, no doubt. Is Jordan Schaeffer ready? Brandon Jones looks promising too. Not holding out hope for Diaz. He is marginal in the field, and inconsistent at the plate. A FA acquisition wouldn’t be bad here (kind of lamented the Kotsay trade, as he was really hitting his stride, but recognize Braves ability to hold onto him for next year was questionable, as he wants to be closer to home - damned surfer dudes!). I remember a couple of years ago people on this blog clamoring for the Braves to get Rocco Baldelli to step in when the inevitable Andruw/Boras scene played itself out. Had that happened, we would have gotten all of about 40 games out of the guy, as he has spent the better part of the last two years on the DL. The same goes for Ryan Freel - no doubt a hustler - many here wanted him. But, he hustles himself right into the outfield wall and onto the DL - nobody needs to spend good prospects on someone like him with a death wish. Hey, how about bringing back Willie Harris? Put glasses on him that makes him think that he is hitting against Braves pitching everyday and the guy is a freakin perennial all star!

My biggest worry is first base. Tex was great while he was here. He’s been a lot better for the Angels since the trade. Prado is not the answer (keep him to platoon at 2nd with KJ), and Casey Kotchman (Casey, glad your Mom came through her illness and is back at home - take care of Momma, my man) isn’t the answer either. I’m all for putting Chipper at first. He definitely has the fielding skills to succeed there. 1B is much less wear and tear on a player than 3B, and God knows he needs that. He’s a switch hitter, so don’t need to worry about platooning. And, despite his age, he’s still a monster at the plate. Plus, Chipper is a LIFELONG Brave. Pay him what we need to keep him. But to anyone who considers trading him, or letting him walk to FA to another team, you shall be SMITED!

What to do with 3B with Chipper on the other corner, you say? Personally, I like Infante there. A good fielder, and the guy hits when he gets to play. Keep Lillibridge and Gotay for utility duty.

Pitching - hate to say it, but Glavine is toast, and Smoltz, if he comes back, won’t be the beast he has been over the years. Right now, our rotation (other than Huddy, who will be be back, with a vengeance next year) looks like what we went through in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Remember that? Glavine was 31-37 in the 3 years before he figured out how to pitch in the bigs. Smoltz was a .500 pitcher during that same stretch. Jurrgens, JoJo and Morton all have the stuff to succeed, eventually. The word here is patience, people. If we trade our prospects for the future, just to get the hot player du jour who may help us in the short run (read: Texiera), and who we have no hope of hanging onto once they get to FA (read: Sheffield, Drew, Bird, et. al.), then just don’t do it.

We may suffer again in 2009 without substantial moves. JS was a genius at filling holes with great trades and an eye for the wayward vet who no one else wanted who performed admirably. But, remember, that is when Ted owned the team, and was willing to open up the check book. That ain’t the case no more. We aren’t the Stankees, the Mutts, the Philthies, the Bums or the Angels. We’re a mid-market team, with an owner who is going to hold the line on salary. Like it or not, that is what we are stuck with.

As an example of how a team can build through the farm system, look at what the Braves did in the 14 year run. 80% of the players brought up through the farm, with the occasional strategic FA acquisition or timely trade. Look at the D-Rays this year. Look at the Twins every year. No, its not fun suffering through a losing season, or waiting to build a team through patient player development in the minors. But, the economic realities dictate that is the path we must travel.

Hold fast, Braves fans. We will be back.

Sorry for the long post. But, given I haven’t posted here in over a year, guess I am entitled to my “epistle”.

Go Scalp ‘Em Braves!!

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

For all those saying Chipper could/should be traded (which I disagree with) don’t you think one of the Texas teams or Arizona makes more sence than NY. These teams are much closer to his ranch and Houston and Arizona both have good chances of winning.

I don’t see that happening at all. If Chipper agrees to leave, I only see the Red Sox and Yankees as choices he’d accept.

If he goes, it will be for two reasons: (1) He thinks it will help the Braves like Dale Murphy once believed and (2) He thinks it will help him be a part of something much bigger than him. It would have to be mutually beneficial to both parties.

Chipper really only cares about winning and perfecting the art and science of hitting. He’s never seemed to be in to it for it to be all about him. If he stays here or goes somewhere stupid like Houston or Arizona, there is the risk it’s all about him and that he needs to be the savior. That ain’t Chipper to me. I think it would kill the man to play out the twilight of his career in meaningless games in empty stadiums for dead end teams going nowhere.

In New York and Boston, he’d be a part of something much bigger than him and he would be just another one of the stars. The whole thing wouldn’t be about him. It would be about winning and he could be left at peace to perfect the craft of hitting. The real pressure on him in those cities would be to be healthy and hitting when the postseason rolls around.

Chipper seems to like to be surrounded by his peers - professionals of his caliber and on his level. With the Yankees or Bosox, he could have that. I think what is burning him up here is that he doesn’t have anyone left besides McCann who he can interact and converse with on his level.

When you wonder where Chipper will go if he leaves you have to ask where will he go that will be meaningful to both the Braves and Chipper. Just look at his quote about Miami tonight. No way Chipper wants to go anywhere like Arizona or Houston where he runs the risk of every game he plays in feeling irrelevant.

He also wouldn’t want to be one of those old guys who seems like he is hanging on in remote outposts trying to compile numbers to get into the HOF. Going to Houston or Arizona runs the risk of doing that to him.

Going to Houston or Arizona also lessens his legacy because it seems like the Braves quit on him and got rid of him. Going to New York or Boston seems like those teams recognized his greatness and wanted him to be a part of theirs and were willing to give the Braves and Chipper an offer they couldn’t refuse.

Also, if he goes to a team like Houston or Arizona, he could also find himself on teams that aren’t winning like they expected when they got Chipper, so they end up trying to trade Chipper. I don’t think Chipper would want to go anywhere where he runs the risk of being the old guy who played for one team forever but ends up at the end of his career being the old guy traded from pretenders to contenders at every trade deadline

Personally, I think he will and should stay here. Even in New York and Boston, he runs the risk of being the guy too many expectations are placed upon and who they mock like Glavine and Andruw if he’s not healthy enough or is merely perceived as being not as productive as he has been here.

Those fan bases are not as intimately familiar with Chipper as we are. We are sometimes too familiar with our stars. Chipper, Andruw, Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux oftentimes seem bigger in the minds of fans of other teams than they are for fans of the Braves. And understandably so. We know all of their warts. They’ve all disappointed us and filled us with frustration. We know all of their strengths and weaknesses. Those other fans don’t.

It causes us to take them for granted at times but also causes us to be realistic about them as well. These other fans……… not so much. They expect these players to be as glorious as they were when they were healthy in their primes.

To them, Andruw is still the skinny kid who dove all over the field, caught every ball and hit two homers in the World Series at `19 yo. They didn’t deal with the frustration of watching him everyday for a decade. They didn’t see the beginning of his demise in his last 200 games as a Brave. So they are shocked when he stinks as bad as he does now.

The Mets fans didn’t want to kill Glavine in the 2002 postseason like many of us did. To hear Anders tell it, for some stupid reason, they thought they were getting an ace even though we knew from watching him pitch everyday there was some slippage towards the end of his time with the Braves. So they get shocked when he’s not the 20 game winning ace when they signed him at 37 years old. We knew. The Braves knew.

So I think it is dangerous for certain Braves legends to go elsewhere. The legend is often bigger than the reality and causes the expectations for them to be too high.

Plus, I also think many of the fans of those other teams are jealous and hate the stars of those 90s Braves with a passion. We like to whine about how ESPN never stops talking about the Red Sox and Yankees but we forget that in the 90s the Braves were shoved down everyone’s throats the same way.

Everyone wanted to be the Braves and they envied all of the stars on the team. So when they got those stars, they expect them to be just as great even if it is a decade later ——— and if they’re not, maybe that’s even better for those fans because then they get the chance to vent all of that pent up resentment, jealousy and anger they had about the Braves kicking everyone’s a@@ in the 90s.

Anyways, those are my thoughts…..

Oh yeah, one more thing:

Ty Wigginton? Knockahoma, puhleeze.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

Mississippi won the opening game of the Southern League playoffs tonight 1-0. Todd Redmond had arguably his finest outing of the season, throwing eight scoreless innings, striking out 9 and walking none. Jordan Schafer was 1-2 with a 2B and a BB.

Myrtle Beach lost 6-5, evening their playoff series 1-1. Eric Campbell was 3-5, Tyler Flowers was 2-5 with a HR, and Jason Heyward was 2-4.

Braveheart, as long as Chipper is posting .400 OBP’s, he’s not going anywhere. And I don’t see why being a DH would help him any, as (if I remeber correctly), most of his injuries occur when he is batting or running the bases. As long as he keeps posting EqA’s above .300 (or .350, like he is now) he’s more valuable than anything he’d most likely bring in a trade anyway.

I would take him on my team if I was a GM.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, as long as Chipper is posting .400 OBP’s, he’s not going anywhere.

So long as he is posting .400 OBPs, other teams are gonna want him. When he stops doing that, so goes the value to the Braves and other teams ……. and that’s the dilemma.

And I don’t see why being a DH would help him any, as (if I remeber correctly), most of his injuries occur when he is batting or running the bases.

For one, DH would help because there are times when he is healthy enough to hit but not healthy enough to field. Being a DH would allow teams to sneak his bat into the lineup an extra 20 or 30 games a year. It might also prevent the wear and tear on his body that comes with fielding. Most of his injuries this year have been batting or running but in the past, it has been because left field killed his hammy, because he got spiked, because he had a collision, because he slipped on wet grass, etc., etc., etc.

As long as he keeps posting EqA’s above .300 (or .350, like he is now) he’s more valuable than anything he’d most likely bring in a trade anyway.

Probably very true. But then again that is kind of shortsighted. What happens in the last year or two when he is not posting those numbers and in the five to ten years beyond when he’s not playing and that piece that is lesser value now is more value then….. you never know when some team clinging to a dream of contention is gonna trade you Jurrjens, Bagwell, Smoltz for a vet. You should at least do due diligence and test the waters just in case someone thinks he is the answer to everything that has plagued them

By uga-brave

September 5, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

random,

take a note from sahun. stay above the fray.

when was last time shaun ever engaged in anything personal.

as for your little war with wayne from utah. WHY?

what does it accompish, who wins?

everyone has different opinions, everyone has different backgrounds, but to try to argue it in this forum is kind of childish.

RANDOM,

you lumped me into this, for whatever reason.

all i ever do is go out to dinner at night, tonight CHOPS. then smoke a great cigar with a nice glass of port.

then, i for the last 14 months have come home and beeched and moaned about frenchy.

i am a one trick pony.

i beeched and moaned for a long time.

dont see the sense anymore about beeching about francouer.

he DID IT TO HIMSELF.

lay off wayne he is a good contributor,

like LEW said i dont always agree with him but he has a good place in this thread.

niels boor, you have a lot to add too.

By uga-brave

September 5, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

MVP OF BLOG?

has always been braveheart.

not even close.

he is the one guy that can actually back his bull with research.

so sahun there it is.

braveheart has a personality.

you, dude i read all your posts because they are always statistcally correct and i respect the point that you never give up your argument.

you drown people with statistics. BUT YOU ARE VERY GOOD.

MVP ROSTER, BRAVEHEART, SAHUN LEW.

LEW, gets and always will get a vote for his great SPRING TRAINING reports.

damn good dawg that hippie LEW is.

By uga-brave

September 5, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this

considering the fact my somewhat dyslexic arse cant spell shaun, my apologies.

braveheart,shaun , lew, steve from ohio, flange, and my old friend braves dave.

i know you miss his and my optimism.

well actually we have been minus scoots early morning critiques.

scoots better days for those clemson tigers, you and your program deserve better then the excuses terry bowden lobs up. the ACC is for clemson’s taking.

By uga-brave

September 5, 2008 3:01 AM | Link to this

remember some of the old graveyard shift guys? chris klob, wayne, and the crazy guy that loved whiskey? steve.

20 games under .500 does wonders.

nice job frank wren. read DOB’S lead in, from his pen to your ear.

you my friend have disgraced a great mangager. you have ruined a great franchise.

bobby will always back his players. you, the general manager have given him crap to coach.

just a tweak or two right frank?

the outfield you put together should get you fired.

but hey, you and terry mcjerk will tell all the lambs about the injuries.

hope you enjoy your nice parking space and that mini fridge.

until “we have millions to spend” is gone it aint gonna get better.

this is on the puppet that is terry mcjerk.

heck if i had a job that had ZERO accoutabilty, i might not want to rock the boat either.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 5, 2008 3:26 AM | Link to this

Here is what Braveheart said at 5:55.

George Brett missed over 225 games from the age of 30 through 36. Chipper has missed about 200 games during the same age span and Chipper has not been able to hide at a less physically demanding position like DH at the same age the way Brett did. And as for Chipper having a weak year for a batting title contender, Brett’s numbers in 1990 at the age of 37 when he won a batting title were not as good as Chipper’s numbers this year at the age of 36 when he is contending for one.

And this is what he neglected tell tell you and intentionally overlooked.

From the age of 37 to 40, George Brett produced 570 games.

2201 at bats.

626 hits.

71 Hr’s

and 284 RBI.

His 4 year average comes out to 13 HR’s 71 RBI and a BA of .284

That is where we are headed with Chipper Jones I-F he continues to play at all.

Braveheart, next time try going on selective memory and emotion and not let nagging facts undercut your argument.

By nolie

September 5, 2008 4:17 AM | Link to this

We have seen a lot of stories about Francouer’s B.A., but none about Chipper’s 70 point drop from his peak earlier this yearretiredscout

hey there, I’m a retired scout too, but thats a kinda foolish comment about Chipper . What? with your expertise you expected him to continue all season at .380? I hardly think that was likely. And anybody who is judging any players using RBI [especially with the huge amount of difference in at bats between those two] is pretty questionable in my book.but hey… whatever

By Random

September 5, 2008 5:41 AM | Link to this

uga-brave: “you lumped me into this, for whatever reason.”

Sorry — but not me, but him.

“you had to come in and talk about a subject that was never intended for you. uga and I were having a conversation.”

At any rate, I think it’s now behind both of us.

Again — apologies.

By Crap Wheelie

September 5, 2008 5:51 AM | Link to this

Wouldn’t we be better off finishing last? It would seem that first-round draft picks are our only chance to compete in the next decade. Our management will not outbid the Mets and Yankees for free agents. So our best bet is to finish last for the next five years and get the draft picks. Then when we have a semblance of a team maybe then we’ll have some support from the owners to sign key free agents. It’s going to be a tough few years.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this

Encouraging participation by the post-midnight crowd. Braveheart, uga-brave had some others burning the late-night lamps for a change. Lot more depth than we’ve been seeing. And definitely good to see a Scalp ‘Em Braves post.

By dannycardwell

September 5, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

chippers not going anywhere. he and smoltze are a rare breed. not many people take pay cuts to benefit an organization. they both deserve to stay in atlanta until they are done playing. chipper and mac are the corner stone to build around even if he only has a few years left. watching this kid parr makes me wonder if he is so good then why did wren wait this long to bring him up. you never know how a young guy will turn out at his age but he sure made a great first impression. and went 6 innings.

By Vince

September 5, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

Great blog braves70. Why are the braves still putting up with Blaine Boyer and the likes. If they got paid on performance like any other job they would owe the team money. I have said many times the marlins come up with great talent year after year. What is their secret? Why do the braves continue to sign rejects from other teams? Fans, when was the last time the braves brought in new talent that you got excited about?

By Random

September 5, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

richbrave: “I sent e-mails, but I have no way of knowing if FURMAN received them. A virus damaged mine and I cannot receive responses. For all I know, the missive may be floating in cyberspace.”

Well, if you don’t hear back from him, what you could think about doing is posting here the text of your recommendation to him, and I (and perhaps many others here) could cut and paste it into emails we would send to Mr Bisher.

(It could morph into a letter writing campaign, actually.)

It’s up to you.

(Or you could send your email to DOB and/or Lew, and ask them to forward it to Mr Bisher for you.

Whatever — good luck!

By flange1

September 5, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

Morning All,

Great night last night for James Parr! Love to see a couple more starts like that from the Braves..

Uga-brave, another good night of posts from you! As always you have an interesting take on things and I always look forward to your posts.

And I agree with you on MVP of the blog, Braveheart, Lew and Shaun are the folks that lead this thing…

On trading Chipper,

I don’t see this happening. I feel that he wants to stay a Brave and that the Braves want him to stick around as well. I agree that a Chipper trade could bring in some younger talent that the Braves need, but it will also eliminate the veteran make up of the team.

I do think Chipper will retire a Brave. I think he will play another 3-4 years. I do think it is time for him to consider moving to 1B. I still think he can play 3B and probably can for another year or two, but it will be VERY hard for him in 2 years to make that move at 39 years old with deteriorating skills. A move next season while he still “younger” would benefit him and the Braves for the remaining years of his career.

In moving Chipper to 1B, Kotchman would be freed up to trade for other pieces.

Thoughts?

By Dadgum

September 5, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Yes, we are worse than the NATS. A 5-10 record is proof. Enough games to even out the intangibles and even if the Braves make it 6-10 I give a decided edge to the NATS. Of course injuries to pitchers and underwhelming position players years had a lot to do with it but again we are where we are.

TThe NATS aside, we have to be more upset that we are not contenders perhaps not even if we had stayed injury free and received adequate play. Modest injuries and two top of the rotation pitchers will get us back. Wren has stated time and timem again that we must go after picthing in the off-season. I agree. This Braves team can’t hang their hat on Juurjens, Campillo, Morton, perhaps Parr for a whole season. In the mix certainly but as 3-5 starters or relief.

Regardless I don’t shore up any corner outfield spots via trade or free agency until at least a #1 starter is acquired.

Rock On……R Braves are done. The Diamond looks great—from about a mile away.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the kind words. Lots of informed writers who post on here: flange1, Lew, Braveheart, TennesseePaul, nolie…lots of interesting stuff everyday.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the BRAVES can do this in just one bite. Two FA’s that are top of the rotation guys doesn’t sound realistic to me.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Flange1

I agree with your thoughts on Chipper. He makes the plays he gets to, but I really doubt his range is what it once was. A move to first base now might make some sense. We’d have to trade Kotchman, but what could we get for him? I’m sure a lot of Braves will be “on the block” this offseason. And some trades might be made, as long it is for the right price.

By Supes

September 5, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Congrats to Parr on his 1st big league win.

I think the key for him that everything was down in the zone. Even if he was missing, it wasn’t going to hurt him. Hopefully all of our young pitchers are thought that. If you are going to miss, miss low in the zone. Chances are no harm will come from that (walks still not good, but as far as getting shelled).

Here we go…another let’s trade Chipper Jones debate. :look: Pointless. He isn’t going anywhere unless he meets with Frank Wren and makes it 100% to him he wants to go to a contender in the AL, like the Yankees or Red Sox. Frank Wren will never be able to trade Chipper if Chipper doesn’t want to go, and if the trade isn’t “right”. A lot has to happen in order for a trade with Chipper to even be considered. Who is to say that in 2010 the Braves will not be competitive once again? If he wants to stay here, and I believe he does want to retire a Brave, I think he can “survive” another year of .500 or worse ball.

Personally, Chipper Jones is the ATL Braves right now. With Smoltzie’s future uncertain, he’s the last of the mochicans. You don’t tradea a player like that unless the “stars line up and the right scenario presents itself”.

Houston and Arizona? No fraking way.

By flange1

September 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

richbrave,

I think the Braves will pick up 2 or maybe even 3 pitchers for next year.

My guess is that 1 will come from trade and the others will come from FA.

I would not expect CC or Sheets, but more like Derek Lowe and Mike Hampton. (or in other words a mid priced guy and a lower priced guy)

I would hope for another stater in the JJJ mold, young with upside potential.

Then they will pick up a power hitter for LF or 1B.

Then fill the holes they have created by the trades for the aforementioned folks.

Hopefully they can come up with another bullpen arm.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

RANDOM:

O.K. Here’s the body of a request I made through the BRADLEY column. Just edit out what doesn’t fit.

I posted on FURMAN BISHER’s column/blog requesting that he compose an article around the comparative strengths and weaknesses of EDDIE MATHEWS and CHIP JONES since JONES just equaled MATHEWS’ old home run record set in 1966. Why FURMAN.? He’s the last person I know of who was active in BRAVES sports journalism and an adult at that time. Therefore he’s apparantly the last person who bridges the time gap between the two.

CARROLL ROGERS liked the idea and suggested I e-mail him, but I cannot receive e-mail because of a virus problem. If you have any contact with him could you give him a heads up about my request posted on his current column.

By DAP

September 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

its good to see the braves win a game like the one last night. its seems like they havent won very many like that one. and good for james parr. thats got to be exciting.

we are going to have a very active offseason, and wwill be right back in it for 2009!!!

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Yeah, UGA, I would give Shaun the blog Jackie Robinson award for good sportsmanship because Shaun does somehow stay above the fray despite the barrage of insults that are often fired at him (especially from me).

ROY goes to McFann in a landslide

MVB is probably between Shaun and McFann. It’s a classic battle. Shaun provides the most tangible value with his writing skills, knowledge and sportsmanship but McFann provides a spunky intangible to go along with excellent writing skills that makes her as valuable or more than Shaun. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like to think of the Shaun vs. Mcfann MVB battle as our own little Wright vs. Rollins MVP battle from last year.

The blog captain of course as always is our catcher Lew who blogs with the soul, leadership, fighting spirit and loyalty to the team of Thurman Munson.

10Greg gets the Dale Murphy award for his daily positivity and unwavering commitment to good clean blogging.

Richbrave of course should get the Minor League Blogger of the Year award for his invaluable daily contributions from the farm.

BTW, richbrave, nice to see you back. I know you had to take some time to deal with a few surgeries but I have neglected to ask how you are doing. Hope all is well.

Sniper69 gets the Douchebag of the Year award. Congrats scumbag. Anders and Metroman gave you a good run but fell short because they sometimes make the mistake of having something valuable to say unlike you.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Uga-Brave, Shaun, Flange1—

Great nominees for MVB. Those are the best choices.

Almost hafta throw Neight in there, too, don’t ya?

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

I would hope for another stater in the JJJ mold, young with upside potential.

How about Jonathon Sanchez? Giants will most likely be looking for offensive position players. They have Alderson and Bumgarner coming up in their system. They may actually look to deal Cain, but I think he will cost too much. Sanchez has some real nice upside. Not sure who we would have to give up. But if we move Chipper to 1st base, maybe asking for Sanchez and a prospect or two for Kotchman would be reasonable…..although I doubt we will even end up dealing Kotchman after trading Tex for him.

By DirtyDawg

September 5, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

I didn’t see the game last night, but with my first glance at the photo of Parr in the online story of his victory, I saw Greg Maddux - the same release point, the same stride, the same position of his glove-hand tucked under his left tittie. Hardly an apt comparison after just one game, but if he’s at least got the look of a goodun’.

By ArkyTech

September 5, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Who is James Parr?

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Dadgum, how are the Braves worse than the Nats?

The Nationals have the worst run differential in baseball by a pretty significant margin. They have the worst record in the majors.

What is this 5-10, 6-10 stuff? You are going to judge which team is better by 15 or 16 games?

The Rays are 6-9 against the Yankees. They are 2-5 against the Indians. Does that mean they are worse than those teams? If so, why aren’t the Yankees and Indians on their way to the playoffs? This isn’t college football, folks. You don’t get ahead in the standings (or polls) by beating a team that’s ahead of you in the standings. You aren’t a better team just because you win 6 games against a team. It takes a lot more than 6 games to judge a team.

The Cubs just lost five in a row. Does that mean they aren’t a great team anymore?

My advice: Expand your attention.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART:

Thanks for the MINOR LEAGUE BLOGGER OF THE YEAR AWARD. I’m humbled and accept this honor on behalf of my aging fingers and befuddled brain. Unfortunately there will be no sequel. Just sporatic reports from Norfolk and Danville.

Health great. Just heard from the DOC re: bloodwork. Everything cool except 39 HDL and 115 Triglycerides. Both almost tolerable. More walking I guess, and less sweets. But thanks for asking.

By Lew

September 5, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

UGABrave-Dawgs go 2-0 tomorrow. Gonna be a great season. It will have to be to make up for the Braves.

Now, Fantasy-How about THIS scenario? We know Dayton Moore likes Francoeur. Work a trade out for Frenchy and KJ (plus a minor league player or two) for Zack Grienke. He is young, good, cheap and signable for long term, I would imagine.

Then I would sign someone like Derek Lowe as #3 starter. If Hampton goes well the rest of the season, offer him a low ball contract. Then you will have a rotation of Grienke, Jurrjens, Lowe and let Campillo, Reyes, Morton and Hampton fight it out for the 4 and 5 slots (maybe we’ll get Hudson back for the playoff push). You keep Bennett, Carlyle and Parr (in the minors) as your depth and long relief. This rotation should eat enough innings to make the pen effective again, all of whose pieces are with the Braves, once we resign Ohman.

This way, we’ve solved the rotation problems at a much more reasonable price tag, leaving enough to get a power hitting RF to replace Frenchy and to bat cleanup. Let Anderson play center and maybe platoon Blanco and Diaz (and Brandon Jones?) in left. Let Prado play 2B and find a Mark Loretta type for the bench.

You now have a lineup of 1.Anderson 2.Prado 3.Chipper 4.Power Hitting RF 5.McCann 6.Yunel 7.Kotchman 8.Blanco/Diaz/Brandon.

This works for me-what about others’ thoughts? I think it puts us back to contender status immediately and should be well within our budget.

By Tex trade

September 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

I wonder if Neftali Feliz will be the #1 prospect in baseball next year…..

By Lew

September 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

RichBrave-Try Fish Oil concentrate for the triglycerides and cut out white bread and potatoes. Eat lots of fiber. HDL will drop like a rock. I know this from experience.

By Cecil34

September 5, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

McFann

You are the ROY….hands down.

Love your positive attitude, even when it is a stretch to do be so…

You will be happy to know that after some thought, I think Chipper needs to play first, not Mac!

It is time, and after the Kotchman experiment, I would like to see that happen. Might save Hoss a few dents and tweaks.

By DAP

September 5, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Efrim like jonathan sanchez alot. he is like mike gonzalez as a starter. control is his main problem, but i see him as being alot like oliver perez. a good #3. i dont really think sanchez would be easy to get either, though.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Richbrave, glad to hear you are doing well. More sweat, less sweet is usually the best health advice ……. I just wish it didn’t take three hellish hours of sweating to reverse the damage of 3 heavenly minutes of sweet eating

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, excellent points at 1:07. The only thing I would add is if other teams are as worried about the injuries as we are, would we really get “top” prospects back in a trade? I mean, I know we would get good ones, but I’m not sure we’d get any bonafide blue-chippers (no pun intended). But I can’t disagree with any of that, though.

Tex Trade:

In a word, no. Jason Heyward will be ranked above Feliz, along with quite a few others. I think I recall Keith Law saying a while ago that Feliz wasn’t even a top ten guy for him. If I had to guess, I’d say the top overall prospect would be David Price (if he doesn’t get called up first) or Matt Weiters of Baltimore. He may be among the top pitchers, but Tommy Hanson will be right there, too. I’ll bet he’s ranked ahead of Feliz anyway. Madison Bumgarner will be ahead of Feliz, too. That’s no knock on Feliz, who is a pretty doggone good prospect, though.

Just a heads-up, but Hanson is pitching tonight in the second game of the Southern League playoffs, and I think Rohrbough might be going for Myrtle Beach in their playoff series.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

I wonder if Neftali Feliz will be the #1 prospect in baseball next year…..

sounds more like a hope than a wonderment the way you are saying it

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

Lew, I think any team that trades a young pitcher with the potential to be an ace—like Grienke or Cain—would want a good young pitcher back in the package. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be a potential ace if the other players involved have star potential. But I think they would require at least a young pitcher with middle-of-the-rotation potential.

For example, if the Braves want Grienke, I think it would have to be Johnson, Francoeur and a pitcher with the potential to be a good second or third starter in a decent rotation or a good fourth starter in a great rotation. Even that may not be enough as Johnson is not extremely young for a baseball player and we all know that teams may stay away from Francoeur.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Lew

I like your rotation plans. I am a huge Greinke fan, but giving up Johnson and Francoeur plus prospects? Maybe it would cost that much. You may be right. I was against signing Lowe, but looking at the free agent market, he might make the most sense. Adding another low cost free agent would probably be needed as well.

Trading Frenchy depletes the corner OF spots(or does it?), so yes, a slugging RF/LF would be needed.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

ArkyTek:

Um, the guy who won last night.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

DAP

I haven’t seen Sanchez this year, not sure if his velocity holds true in the later innings. I’m sure he could be converted into a nast reliever, but he has done a pretty damn good job starting. Ollie Perez is a good comparison. They have a similar frame.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Feliz is a damn good prospect and will most certainly be the Rangers #1. At least I think he will be. Not sure if he will be the #1 overall prospect. Matt Wieters, hands down in my mind. Feliz will probably be top 20, top 15.

By Thrillhouse44

September 5, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

MVB: Braveheart, hands down. Dude is like Chipper: always bringing it. He rakes all day long, whether it’s in the clutch or 2:00 a.m. Jay-Z discussions. With runners on in a close game, give me Braveheart.

ROY: McFann. I think she surprised everyone with her development this year. She took the raw talent and worked hard to put it to good use. Much like her hero, McCann, she’s come through all year long.

Manager of the Year: Lew. Like Cox he always supports his team and his boys. Not afraid of an argument, and bless you if you’re the one arguing against him. Great knowledge of the game.

Anders is like the fat bat boy in A League of Their Own. Annoying as can be.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Braveheart—

I think Shaun is an excellent choice for MVB! He gives the best stats.

Thank you for the complements. You have good writing skills yourself. But I wouldn’t say I’m more valuable than Shaun!

I like to think of the Shaun vs. Mcfann MVB battle as our own little Wright vs. Rollins MVP battle from last year.

Is one of us a David Wright here? ; )

Richbrave, you are definitely the Minor League Blogger of the year! Glad all is well!

Braveheart, your other nominees for the various Awards (Lew, 10Greg) were spot on! Great job. And Congrats to you all! And yeah, Sniper was the most deserving of the three Mets guys.

Cecil34—

Thank you! I suppose I cann stretch the positives just a touch, but it’s more fun than being negative.

I think Chipper would be a better first baseman than Brian, but I’m not sure he’d want to move there…but I am happy to know you’ve switched cars on the train!

By flange1

September 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Your thoughts on trades and the rotation are an exact mirror of what I think will happen in the offseason.

If we could do the Chipper to first move, we would have Kotchman as a piece to trade for a power hitting outfielder of 3B. I would consider Infante at 3B or maybe Escobar at 3B abd Lilli at SS or some mix of those 3 guys at SS and 3B.

Then sign a guy like Kevin Millar to back up 1B for when Chipper needs rest.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Lew, those are some interesting suggestions. I would say that French/KJ + prospects is too much, though—I don’t really want to open a hole at two positions when we already need to fill LF and CF (although we can do center in-house). I’d like to see Schafer get a legitimate shot to win the job, but I think Anderson would be just fine. Perhaps we could dangle Blanco as trade bait? Also, I really can’t see Brandon Jones in our outfield next year—I’d expect him to be trade bait as well. I see our outfield stacking up as New Guy, Schafer/Anderson, and Frenchy.

And when talking about pitching, don’t forget about Tommy Hanson as insurance. I think he could step in around the middle of next season and make a real impact (I was listening to the Mississippi game on internet radio the other day and the announcers absolutely raved about his slider. Said it was filthy). I did like your pitching suggestions, though.

I think if we fill one outfield spot with a good power hitter and bring in a good pitcher or two, we’ll be very competitive next season. The bullpen will be fine with Moylan and Soriano back healthy.

By Lew

September 5, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I see what you’re saying re: Grienke, but he will be in his Free Agent year next year. His career record is uninspiring, though he has Ace stuff and loads of potential. Trade for him and sign him long term immediately.

The Royals will not win next year or probably, for several more years-at least not enough to contend in a tough Division. They will NOT be able to resign him. Why not get three or four players (two who are ML ready) when the guy won’t take them to the promised land any more than Tex took us?

Besides, on your point about wanting pitching in return-give them a Minor League guy like Medlin. From what I’ve seen from Reyes and Morton (granted still inconsistent, both) and last night from Parr (and yes, I know it’s only one start) and Hansen on the horizon, it’s a deal I’d definitely make.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART:

You sir are a man after my own heart - health that is.! Certainly know your stuff. The voice of experience I presume.

LEW:

Already taking that glycerin-coated fish oil horse-pill. That and no white bread/no rice or potatoes have certainly helped my diet situation. Thanks for the tips. Appreciate it. BRAVEHEART has hit upon my weakness. SWEETS. Green stuff will kill you. Ugh. Meat-a-tarian ad right on. Just leave off the cheese and bun. You’ve got to commit to it.

Next birthday I will have matched my uncle for longevity - 66. Only my brother has exceeded that mark in the past four male generations of our family. It’s in the genes. I’ve got the bad ones, he doesn’t. I’m 6’ 0” 210. Exercise, try to eat relatively healthy. Always have. Two bypass surgeries. He’s 5’ 9” 300. Eats everything. No exercise. 73 - no problems. Oh well.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Thrillhouse44 Much like her hero, McCann, she’s come through all year long.

Thank you! Huge complement—I appreciate it!

Lew as MOY is a great idea! Great job Lew!

And I think Braveheart’s a good choice for MVB, too…it’s hard to single one out…

By Lew

September 5, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Manager of The Year and Thurman Munson? Looks like I did all right today. Hey, the Eye’s doing much better-might start up with an occasional Wurlitzer if we keep getting these good posts.

Flange-I like Millar as a pickup, but would would love to have Mark Loretta, Supersub Extraordinaire on the bench-he can play anywhere in the infield.

By Goodoleboy58

September 5, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

By David O’Brien

Talk about hard luck. I was doing ondeck box and check out these numbers for tomorrow’s Washington starter Jason Bergmann: He’s 1-9 with a 4.36 ERA in 19 games (18 starts) since May 20, and the Nationals scored two runs or fewer while he was in 12 of those 18 starts.

Dont get all excited yet.. I remember a couple games last year where the Braves made Bergmann look like Maddux.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Revisiting the Bob Wickman trade. Remember the young catcher we traded in Max Ramirez.

He hit .347 in 81 games played in 2008 with 19 Hr’s and 56 RBI after overcoming an early season hip flexor injury. This following his 2007 season where Ramirez hit .304 with 16 HR’s and 82 RBI. Max is currently on the Rangers big league roster following the expansion to 40 players.

Bob Wickman is out of baseball.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

I would just point out that Dayton Moore does not want to be in a perpetual rebuilding cycle, trading away his good young players before free agency for guys who might not be ready for two or three more years. That’s not what he wants to do. If he trades Greinke, he’ll want immediate-impact young players in return, or perhaps a top prospect knocking at the door, almost ready, in addition to a good young player who’s already in the majors. Not just prospects still a couple or more years away.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Lew, I see your argument at 11:21, but everything I’ve read suggests that the Royals think very highly of Grienke, so I’d bet they’d want a premium return on him. There’s a lot more options out there than Grienke, though. Toronto, Cleveland, San Fran, etc. are all good matches for a trade with us—we, with our minor league depth and available money, can afford to be choosy about the types of deals we make.

I’d look for JoJo to be traded and Morton kept….Medlen could be a candidate to go. So could Todd Redmond and James Parr (sell-high guys, everything I’ve read suggests average stuff). No matter what we can come up with here, I’d be willing to bet almost anything that FW pulls a trade out of his arse that no one sees coming.

Should be a very fun offseason.

By flange1

September 5, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Steve in Ohio,

Not sure that you should be considered for ROY with McFann!

In terms of the trade of KJ and Frenchy + pitcher for Greineke, I agree that we are overpaying and opening more holes.

But I think we can not wait to see AND depend on KJ and Frenchy reaching their potential.

I think we are going to have to sell low on those guys and try to get something needed and usable for them.

I know that Prado is not the greatest 2B in the history of the world, but I think he could fill in for KJ and not leave a hole.

I would want to let Blanco, Anderson, Schafer and B Jones bash it out for CF and RF and see if we could get a RH bat in LF.

The problem is other than Pat Burrell, I don’t really see to many OF bats that are RH that are decent.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I don’t see Carlos Lee on the market, the Astros believe they are close to contending.

Who else should we be looking for?

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Coach, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We’ve made far too many good trades to linger on the few that have missed. No GM will make a perfect trade every time.

By flange1

September 5, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Coach,

Are you ever satisfied with any trade the Braves have ever made?

Do you understand that you have to give up something to get something and sometimes you give up a prospect for a short period of time with another player to fill a need?

And did you mention that Max is also 4th or 5th on the depth chart for Texas at Catcher?

And my final question is SO WHAT?

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

James Parr should go with “Jimmy” or “Jimbo” if he plans to be a big-time big-leaguer. If you don’t agree with that, well, you’ve got no glove, bat and pine tar rag in your trunk, just in case.

(I don’t either, but just adding emphasis. No, wait, during spring training I actually do have a glove in the trunk, just in case we ever decide to play a little catch like we always say we’re going to but never do because we’re too busy or ready to get the H out of disney at the end of the day.)

By jim

September 5, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

I’m of the opinion that the Braves won’t be legitimate contenders again until 2011. ( We aren’t getting C. C. or Sheets, maybe someone like Lowe as a FA, and a Burrell or Dunn won’t make this team any more competitive than they made their former/previous teams — in Burrell’s case with a supporting cast of Utley, Rollins, Howard, and Victorino). We need to build next year’s team with an eye toward 2011, not 2009. If that is the case, we need to try to evaluate what the 2011 team might look like if we were just to consider players in our own system and try to add to in the areas where we will be weakest. If we try to project who the top players at each position will be in 2011, my list would look like this:

C. McCann, Flowers

1B. Freeman, Flowers, Kotchman

2B Johnson, Prado

SS Escobar, Hicks, Lillibridge

3B Chipper?, Infante, Gilmore, Pope, Campbell

OF Heyward, Shafer, Francoeur, Jones, Anderson, Blanco, Hernandez, C. Johnson

SP. JJJ, Hudson, Hanson, Morton, Campillo, (Teheran waiting in the wings), some combination of Redmond, Locke, Rohrbaugh, Parr, Reyes, James, Evarts, DeVall, Spruill and others that are all too far away to adequately evaluate)

RP. Gonzalez, Kimbrell, Soriano, Ohman, Medlen, Boyer, Moylan, Acosta, Valdez

For this team to become a contender in the next decade Heyward must become the superstar he is projected to be; Escobar must be an elite SS (the depth we had at this position last year is no more); McCann must stay healthy (and watch the weight); JJJ must continue to develop into a true ace; and Hanson, Morton, or one of the others must step up and be at least a solid middle of the rotation starter. The immediate short-term needs for this team are backup catcher and inning-eating starters. The longer term needs are for starting pitching, a replacement at 3B for Chipper, and a power hitting outfielder. A good draft position this year should get us a power arm that will move rapidly through the system, and the emphasis on drafting pitching in two of the last three drafts may begin to bear fruit as these picks start to move up the system. The lack of power that we see this year may be resolved if Heyward and Freeman add power bats to the lineup and if Cody Johnson is able to limit his Ks and make it to the majors or if Jeff is able to resuscitate his career. Jon Gilmore had a very good season offensively after a delayed and slow start. He may be the future at 3B, but it is way too early to project his future.

A truer evaluation of the talent going forward is still probably a year away. I’m not as anxious for Wren to make a lot of moves in the off-season as many others on this blog because unless we give away possible future stars like Heyward, Freeman, Hanson or Escobar, we will not likely get equal value in return. The players many bloggers are trying to trade (KJ, JF, Lillibridge, Reyes, etc.) will not bring back a top talent or top prospect. Sometimes young talent develops unevenly and more slowly. We need to be patient, rebuild in the right way, not inflate the future payroll, and not just make trades for the sake of making trades.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Goodoleboy, not ready excited about it. Just pointing out the guy’s had terrible luck this season. Good chance that could change against the Braves, for sure, although more likely against anyone but Jurrjens (even if Jair has tired and/or tailed off since the break).

By brent a.

September 5, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Question about the Marlins home:

Are there even scalpers there?

What is it like to get tickets? Can you get in for just a few bucks like you can at TF?

Are people giving away tickets, or do you still have to rely on the box office, because no one has bothered to buy tickets?

I’m looking at the web-site and don’t see anything for less than $9, which to me, is a little surprising, considering the team’s attendance history.

Thanks to anyone that knows.

By Lew

September 5, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Steve-I hear what you’re saying, without a doubt. My rationale is that if you have stud pitching, which will be infinitely harder to find than outfield help, you go for it and then go from there.

However, look at it like this. Obviously, the lack of power is foremost in most fan’s minds. If you get a 30HR guy to replace Francoeur, you still have Chipper who will hit 20+, McCann who can be pencilled in for another 25, Kotchman who should hit another 20-25 and Yunel batting 6th, who will hit between 10-15 if his shoulder regains strength. That should be plenty of power, especially with the speed at the top and bottom of the lineup and in between (Anderson leading off and Blanco batting 8th-Yunel batting 6th-not to mention Prado) and good solid OBP guys throughout the lineup. I’d say that should provide enough offense (especially with Prado in there, too) to win if we have great pitching, which Grienke and Lowe would provide.

If Hanson can come along enough to make a significant contribution in 09, wonderful. However, the way I’ve got the pitching figured, he won’t be rushed or depended on too much at a young age-let him work his way in more slowly. We’ve certainly seen growing pains from JoJo and Morton-doubt Hanson will be much different in that regard. Bring them along slowly.

Now don’t get me wrong-I’ve always liked KJ and think Frenchy will come back strong. The idea I have here is to get the strongest, hardest pieces first . Don’t forget, Many think (myself included) that this may be a two year process. Pitching is harder to acquire. Lock it up and see where that takes you. If necessary, we’ve got outfield help on the horizon at the Farm. With the pitching I outlined, by 2010, we’re a force again-If Not Sooner.

By DAP

September 5, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

flange1 for left field, casey blake will be a free agent, and i really like him.i think mike cameron would be a good choice if milwakee doesnt exercise the option on his contract. also, ive heard rumors that magglio ordonez might be made available.

if we arent looking for a right hander specifically, abreu or ibanez would both be good choices. they are veterans with good bats that wont demand long contracts, so they wont block our young outfield prospects.

By Goodoleboy58

September 5, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

flange1 I would want to let Blanco, Anderson, Schafer and B Jones bash it out for CF and RF and see if we could get a RH bat in LF.

Well technically that group wouldn’t be “bashing” much out but I agree with what you are saying haha.

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

flange1,

As for moving Chipper to first — that’s been tossed around on the ol’ B/MIB blog a few times but it’s too dicey an idea. Chipper’s injuries center around the hamstrings and the quads. That’s why he was moved from the OF back to SS and 3B. All the stretching and lunging he’d have to do playing first would just seem to invite even more injuries to me.

I could see him DHing some for an AL team if he decided to leave the Braves. But he’s going to be at third for the rest of his career in the field, count on it.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

We need to build next year’s team with an eye toward 2011, not 2009. If that is the case, we need to try to evaluate what the 2011 team might look like if we were just to consider players in our own system and try to add to in the areas where we will be weakest.Jim

That’s all good, and your reasoning is well-founded. However, Jim, the bottom line is this: Braves officials, including the GM and manager, do NOT agree with you that they should build toward 2011 and not focus on next year. Wren has said, repeatedly, that with a few big pieces added the Braves believe they can contend next year.

So really, unless you don’t think he believes what he’s saying, you should probably accept or prepare for the fact that they are not approaching this as a two- or three-year rebuilding effort and looking past next season. That’s not at all what they have said, on and off the record, that they’re planning to do.

And I would add, if Cox comes back next year — and I’d still say it’s a very good chance he does — then do you really think he’s doing so in hopes the Braves will be a contender again in 2011? No. He’s coming back hoping like hell to get back to the playoffs next year, not two or three years from now.

By ncscoots

September 5, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

You now have a lineup of 1.Anderson 2.Prado 3.Chipper 4.Power Hitting RF 5.McCann 6.Yunel 7.Kotchman 8.Blanco/Diaz/Brandon.

…and a fine 4th place finish with a 650-run offense. Lew, come on, man, 2000 AB from Anderson, Prado, Kotchman, and Blanco? That looks competitive to you?

Brandon Jones would have to turn into Roberto Clemente to make that lineup just average, and there’s no chance the Braves will have enough pitching to overcome that kind of offensive anemia.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

His career record is uninspiring, though he has Ace stuff and loads of potential.

Lew, what’s uninspiring? He has a great strikeout rate and impressive walk rate. The last two years his ERA+ has been in the 120s.

If you are talking about his win-loss, he’s played on a team that has averaged 96.4 losses a year since he’s been up…and that’s counting this season which still has three weeks left. His career winning percentage is .413 and the Royals’ winning percentage since 2004 is .388.

By flange1

September 5, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58,

You are so right!!!! Good one…

BravesFanInRockies,

In my mind, at some point Chipper’s defensive skills will diminish to a point that he will be a liability at 3B. I think he will end his career with the Braves. I alos think he could be more valuable to the team for a longer period if he were to make the move next year while his skills are still somewhat in tact rather than waiting a couple of years and see his skills diminish.

I agree that it probably will not happen, but I think it should!!!!

By Lew

September 5, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

If not Grienke, then someone similar. TYhe Giants pitching has been mentioned. Cain works, too.

Still think the Royals have little chance of resigning Grienke, though and are still ore years away from contention than Grienke can help them with. Could be wrong-it’s happened before. However, that’s how we’re going to have to build the pitching back up. No way we sign CC and Sheets. This approach could not only be as effective, but cheaper and quicker a fix.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

When is Greinke a free agent? Is it at the end of 2009, or 2010? If it is at the end of 2010, then I am guessing Dayton Moore will hold onto him until at least July of 2009…unless he gets blown away with an offer.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

flange1, good post at 11:45 AM.

Apparently Coach doesn’t realize that if you have an opportunity to win by acquiring an MVP-type player in exchange for players that can’t help you for another two or three or four or five years—when you may not be in a position to contend—you go for it when you do have the opportunity to win.

People like Coach I suppose think the Braves should have just taken their chances without guys like JD Drew or Teixeira or McGriff and run the risk of not doing all they could to take advantage of a chance to reach the playoffs and win the Series at the moment they had the chance.

Coach apparently doesn’t understand that there is absolutely no guarantee that the players traded for guys like Drew and Teixeira and McGriff would eventually put the Braves in a better position to reach the playoffs and win the Series than in the seasons in which they acquired Drew, Teixeira and McGriff.

I understand you can’t deplete your farm system and you don’t want to deal away a potential superstar at a position of need. But if players are somewhat expendable and you are in a position to win, you have to take advantage.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

I’m reluctant to trade Jo Jo. He’s got the respectable K9 rate, HR9 rate, GB/FB rate, line drive against % to become a good pitcher. His FIP is 4.59 which indicates that his ERA may be around 4.60 next season. If the team scores 5 runs a game next year, that kind of ERA would make him about 12-10. Not bad for the back end of the rotation.

What’s killing him is the walks and a high Babip. If he cuts down on the walks by a walk per 9 and gets the better luck and defense needed to cut down the Babip against to more of a league average of .300, he’ll be in good shape.

Here are the numbers this season:

FIP: 4.59 K9: 6.68 BB9: 4.30 HR9: 1.01 GB/FB: 1.68 Babip: .333 LD%: 19.5

Compare that to Andy Pettitte this year:

FIP: 3.79 K9: 6.80 BB9: 2.43 HR9: 0.89 GB/FB: 1.81 Babip: .333 LD%: 19.6

The biggest difference between the two is the walks. JoJo just needs to trust his stuff and throw more strikes. I also think JoJo needs to work on his conditioning. Improved conditioning might lead to more consistent mechanics and performance.

I really wish Jo Jo and Charlie knew how good their stuff is and how good they can be.

By Lew

September 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun-He has a losing record (yes, I know he plays for the Royals) and his career ERA is high. He’s coming along nicely and should be stud-Which is why I want him on the Braves. Yes, his K rate is good, but overall, his numbers are uninspiring. Talented? Absolutely. Has he put it all together yet? He’s almost there, but hasn’t been until the last season or so. Typical of good, young pitchers, but, like I said, uninspiring numbers with great indicators. It’s not as if he hit the scene like Doc Gooden or Dontrelle Willis (what happened there?) and dominated early on in his career. He has struggled somewhat to get where he is-up and coming with a huge upside.

Believe me, I’m not putting him down in any way, shape or form. I want him at the top of the Braves’ rotation for another 5 years along with JJ and Hanson-hopefully Reyes and Morton, too.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Wow…I sure would never win the Speller of the Year Award…I’ve been saying “complement” this whole time! I mean: compliment!

Sorry about that!

By jim

September 5, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

It may be the mindset of Wren to “win one last one for Bobby, Chipper, Smoltz, etc.”, but if that is the mindset of the front office, we are in for a long stretch of mediocre baseball. To count on big contributions from Smoltz, Glavine, even Chipper next year is even more of a gamble than counting on the veterans so much this year. Adding one or two pitchers like Lowe plus a bat like Burrell to the team we have on the field right now does not get us past the Mets (who will be moving into a new stadium and have their own cable channel), and not necessarily the Phillies or the Marlins. I am not a Bobby basher, but am of the same age, have good health, and know when it is time to retire. I don’t want to see us go from bad to mediocre, but would rather endure a transition from very bad, to very good. To me the measure of the effectiveness of the job Wren does will be what the team looks like 3 years from now, not what it did this year or what it looks like next year (barring a miracle).

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Lew, I don’t know. The Royals weren’t afraid to open their wallet for Meche and Jose Guillen. Surely they view Grienke as a wiser investment.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Lew, I definitely agree wholeheartedly about your assessment of pitching. If we improve the rotation, and keep the ‘pen healthy, we’re going to be tough to beat, regardless of our offense. The case in point here is the Angels: 17th in runs scored/game, but 4th in runs allowed/game; their hitter VORP is 25th in the league, but their pitcher’s VORP is 4th in the league. They’re 1st in the league in wins.

But the point that sticks out most in my mind is this: we’re not going to build a starting rotation as good as LA’s, in all likelihood. This means we’re going to have to have a better offense than LA’s if we’re going to go “back to our roots,” so to speak. I really think Scoots had a good point at 12:09—Brandon Jones, Prado, Blanco and Anderson all together in the lineup makes for a lineup with the punch of a 12-year old girl. I’m fine with one (or maybe two) of them in the lineup (preferably Blanco or Anderson in center), but we certainly can’t risk putting all of them in the lineup at the same time. If I’m the general manager (which thankfully I’m not), I go out and get Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn, grab some pitching, and then leave well enough alone and maybe go pray for good health for the guys. That’s it. As I’m sure you all know by now, I’m not sold on taking Kelly out of an everyday role at second, and I’m also not sold on getting rid of Jeff.

This team, with a savvy acquisition or two, definitely has the punch to get it done, especially if we go all-out to improve the rotation like you suggested (I agree with this). Let’s just “let it be,” and pray for better health next season, and some semblance of a return from Jeff. Kelly will be fine, IMO (but I’m still OK with trading him for a REAL ace, though).

Fun Fact: Jair Jurrjens is 2nd in rookie pitcher VORP, ahead of Joba Chamberlain.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

i gotta think that Brian Sabean and Dayton Moore will want Jason Heyward and/or Tommy Hanson in any deal for Matt Cain or Zach Greinke. I know our farm system has depth, but those are two impact guys.

I’d include Hanson in a deal for either, but I’m sorry, I’m not trading Jason Heyward for Matt Cain or Zach Greinke. Maybe I’m wrong, Heyward only has one year of Low A ball under his belt, but trading top prospects shouldn’t be the direction for this franchise-not in its current state. If we could get Cain or Greinke without giving up Heyward, I’m for it. If we have to, then I would pass.

By flange1

September 5, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Totally agree with you on Jo Jo. It seems to me that Jo Jo and Charlie both tend to nibble when they both have the pitches to just go after guys.

I have been thinking for a couple of days that it would be an interesting experiment in Spring Training for some of the younger pitchers to wear ear phones and have Smoltz and Glavine talk to them all through an inning to give them some idea how to handle situations and what pitch to throw.

I understand that it is completely illegal to do in a game situation, but I think it would give the young guys an interesting perspective of how a ML HOF pitcher would handle the situation.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Lew, Dontrelle Willis never had the ability to miss bats that Grienke has shown. And K rate is a key indicator of a pitcher’s future performance.

He’s only 24. The fact that he’s “only” put it together within the last season or so means nothing. He’s “put it together” at age 23 or 24. And indications are he has all the abilities to be a great pitcher (although of course nothing is a sure thing with pitchers). But for exactly the same reasons you want the Braves to get him and want to give up two or three young players with some potential to get him, the Royals will do all they can to re-sign him and will want to be blown away by a trade offer to even consider it.

By rApToR

September 5, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Only in Fantasyland will Jeff Francouer be traded. The golden boy will be back in RF, smiling as usual, come spring training. Johnson will be the one waving so long to the Braves organization and fans. Prado has earned and proven to have every chance to start at 2nd base in 2009; this probably to the disliking of many Braves fans because he is not going to provide the power needed by this team to return to post-season. Johnson once labeled by some as a poor man’s Chase Utley may attract interest from several teams; however, what these team offer may not be as much as expected. Certainly not the caliber of players mentioned on here w/o a multi-player trade. Perhaps Blanco, whom the Braves can afford to depart with because of Anderson, and a pitcher (Jo-Jo) thrown into the deal can bring much needed help. Besides this the Braves should suffer the consequences and continue to develop their younger players.

I just don’t see any consistent winning coming from this team next season and perhaps slightly longer. Other teams (Yankees, 1/2 dozen more teams than Atlanta) will grab up the more valuable free agents and each trade the Braves are involved in these days looks more like an effort to rebuild instead of a competing now statement despite what Wren says. Lets just say Cox will no be around as manger when the Braves are completive again. This is long overdue anyhow. Does anyone really think this man can motivate this team (younger players) at its present state any longer! I don’t think he can motivate ice to melt on Peachtree tree in July. Go ahead, build his statue and hopefully he will get the hint.

Another sub-500 season and Chipper will say the magic words and be another Dale Murphy follower, possibly as early as mid-season 2009. This being the case if the Braves are double digits out of 1st by then.

The team is simply bad and has to have time to rebuild, face it.

By BT

September 5, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but if you believe that Franceour is going to make a come back why not hold on to him. His trade value is at it’s lowest right now.

I agree with DOB that they Braves want to build for 2009 but man I hope they have given up on one or 18 month rentals!

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

McFANN:

Hey-y-y Hombre a compliment on your shoot-t-ing. You have put a hole in me.(HOMBRE-1968) Spelling.? I only memorized the ENGLISH language, never learned it. No need for an apology on this venue.

By BBFCFM

September 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Brent a

I flew down to Miami earlier this year and saw a game there. It was a night game, maybe 10,000 people. We had to scalp tix for the game. I actually recognized the scalper as I had seen him around the country at various concerts and baseball games.

Suprisingly I thought, I could not talk this guy down from 18 dollars for a ticket. Now these tickets were about 5 rows from the field, but they didnt have any cheap ones for sale, persay. Nonetheless, scalpers were present and enthusiastic. (I guess I could have paid 9 bucks at the gate, but we would have been sitting all alone on the 3rd level deck.)

Another guy who was selling a single ticket (I was with friends and family so we were trying to sit together), sold it to a guy, but when he tried to get in, it said that the ticket had already been used, so he got burned.

I guess the market is all or nothing down there because we were coming in at the 3rd inning at this point, and I barely got 10 bucks taken off the scalpers asking price.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I hear ya on JoJo. I’m always ready to be patient, especially with young pitchers and reluctant to deal away any young pitcher.

But remeber: We’ve got Jurrjens, Campillo, Morton, Reyes, Parr, Hampton, Redmond in AA (but very close to ML-ready), Hanson in AA (1/2 year to year away from ready. Wouldn’t trade him, period), Hudson back in a year or so, and possibly Smoltz. If were going to make a trade or sign free agents, someone’s gotta go. Can’t stash ‘em in AAA forever.

By Yunel Lillibridge

September 5, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

GRIENKE has MENTAL ISSUES!!! He might be able to pitch, but he’s a headcase. He’s already had to take time away from the Royals for “mental reasons”. No way you give up any top prospects like Hanson on Heyward for a guy that may not be pitching in two years because of mental illness. No way.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Steve in Oh

As I’m sure you all know by now, I’m not sold on taking Kelly out of an everyday role at second, and I’m also not sold on getting rid of Jeff.

I’m for it to man. Keep em and get their value back. Why trade them with three years away from free agency? Why not wait for after 2009 to deal them. Their value can’t get much worse. Is one years arbitration going to scare some teams off? I don’t think so. Let’s keep them, focus on rebuilding the starting rotation through one trade(for a young guy) and two free agent signings, and then a third free agent signing for a Left fielder. Lowe at 8 per year, Hampton/lower tier SP, a young pitcher through trade and a free agent left fielder.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

An interesting take from Buzz Bissinger that I agree with:

www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/opinion/05bissinger.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

Sympathy for the Slugger By BUZZ BISSINGER Published: September 4, 2008

I don’t like Barry Bonds. I don’t like his insouciance and swagger and surliness, his general contempt for anybody who doesn’t share the familial intimacy of his last name. I prayed that he would not break the single-season record for home runs in 2001 with the San Francisco Giants, just as I also prayed that he would not break Hank Aaron’s record for most homers in the history of baseball last season. By the measures of grace and dignity, Aaron is all class and Bonds all trash.

But last week’s news trickling out of the endless investigation of Barry Bonds has caused me to feel something for him I never thought possible: sympathy. And beyond just sympathy, outrage over what has turned from a prosecution into a venomous persecution of someone who, no offense to the pastime purists, is just a baseball player. And I am beginning to think that federal authorities in charge of the pending criminal case against him for perjury have exactly the same attitude many sports fans do — we don’t like Barry Bonds, and since we don’t like him, let’s teach him a lesson he won’t forget. Let’s ruin him, which the federal government is fond of doing in all too many instances.

Just for the record, Barry Bonds is not an axe murderer. He is not a rapist or a child molester. He has been charged with 14 counts of lying to a federal grand jury about his alleged use of steroids and human growth hormone (as well as one count of obstruction of justice). He denies such usage. And that’s where the whole mess sits until his trial next March.

The charges themselves are questionable enough, given that Bonds, even if he knowingly took such drugs, was only doing what so many other major league players were doing in an atmosphere that encouraged such usage, given the appalling lack of internal enforcement by the league itself. If you’re going to indict Barry Bonds for perjury, then aren’t there also some charges on which to indict league commissioner Bud Selig, Major League Players Association head Donald Fehr, every team owner, every general manager, every manager and the legions of others who all hid like quivering cowards when it came to illegal drug use? Their defense — they had no idea of what was going on — is balderdash and poppycock. They all aided and abetted in the crime through willful and deceitful ignorance.

But what is far more disturbing is the way in which the feds are now conducting the case, with a vindictiveness smacking of unseemly obsession.

Last week, Duff Wilson and Michael Schmidt of The Times reported that federal authorities are considering criminal charges against the wife and mother-in-law of Bonds’ former trainer, Greg Anderson, in an effort to pressure him to testify against Bonds. According to numerous accounts, it was Anderson who supplied Bonds with the drugs. “I’ve been an attorney for 32 years,” Charles J. Smith, the attorney for Anderson’s wife Nicole Gestas, told the Times. “I was a prosecutor for 10 years. But I have never heard anything like this … It’s mean-spirited. It really is mean-spirited.”

Threatening family members is conduct worthy of the mafia, not the federal government, particularly in a case that is ultimately inconsequential beyond sensational headlines and another round of “I Hate Barry” frenzy. Protecting the sanctity of baseball? Protecting the sanctity of sports? It’s way too late for any of that self-righteous nonsense in SportsWorld. What Anderson has been forced to go through already, spending more than a year in prison on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Bonds before a grand jury, is sickening in its mercilessness.

Once again, this is not some case involving a drug kingpin smuggling thousands of kilos of cocaine into the country. This is a case hovering around performance enhancers, which dozens if not hundreds of baseball players used.

In the report by the former Senator George Mitchell to Major League Baseball last December, 86 present and former players were named as having used steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs. But how many of them are currently being prosecuted? The answer as far as I know is zero. In fact some of those named, such as Andy Pettitte and Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees, are still playing.

But the major difference is that Pettitte and Giambi (to some extent) are likeable fellows, whereas Bonds is downright loathsome. Granted, he did nothing to endear himself to anyone. He was surly up until he stopped playing this year. He was arrogant. He hated the press and often gave the impression that he pretty much hated every fan outside San Francisco. He cocooned himself in a posse big enough for the president. Based upon the account given by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams in their book, “Game of Shadows,” he was taking steroids and other performance enhancers by the bushel when he hit his record-breaking 73 home runs in 2001.

But the very lack of a league testing policy gave Bonds and other baseball players carte blanche. When the league finally put in place a system in 2003, it was a joke in terms of providing any real deterrent. It wasn’t until November 2005 that year-round testing was finally instituted with penalties ranging from a 50-game suspension for the first positive test to a lifetime ban for the third.

Under such conditions up until 2006, what player in his right mind would not have taken performance enhancers? It potentially meant millions of dollars for each. Money talks and the rest of it walks. That is the American way whether we like it or not. In the case of Bonds, it also meant tens, if not hundreds, of millions for a league that had become desperate for home runs as a way of continuing to reclaim fans that had become disenfranchised during the hideous strike of 1994 and the cancellation of that year’s World Series.

Bonds did not use the league nearly as much as the league used him. As he made his record march in 2001, ballpark after ballpark was filled to capacity. Reporter after reporter followed his exploits. He was hailed as maybe the greatest player ever in the history of the game, until he became the pariah that he is today.

In fact, more than just pariah: it seems pretty clear that he has been blackballed by the league this year despite statistics last season that included 28 home runs, 132 walks and an on-base percentage of .480 in only 340 at-bats. In the stretch-run for the playoffs, there isn’t a team that can use him? Of course there is, but his conspicuous absence smacks of collusion by team owners regardless of denials by Commissioner Selig. The players’ union smells stink, and so do I.

Did Bonds lie to the grand jury about using performance-enhancing drugs? If so, he is hardly the first public figure to lie about something. A president named Bill Clinton lied about his affair with Monica Lewinsky. He got impeached, but he remained in office, and to this day is still one of the most beloved political figures in American life.

It is also ridiculous to assume that Bonds would have done anything else but lie, even under oath. He is a professional athlete, not a role model, despite the fact that we continually insist on confusing the two, with our need to put on those rose-colored glasses. If he had taken steroids and told the truth, he would have been ruined. By not telling the truth, he would have been ruined. He was in a no-win situation. And when it comes to manning up, or more precisely not manning up, he is once again in very plentiful company. Of the 86 players named in the Mitchell report, how many actually cooperated with the investigation? Precisely one: Jason Giambi.

Obviously, the government’s case against Bonds is weak, or it wouldn’t be embarking on the witch hunt of doing everything possible to squeeze Anderson to testify.

But enough is enough. Leave Anderson alone. Leave Bonds alone. Let them deal privately with what they did or did not do. If the Feds want to earn our taxpayer dollars, they can send a SWAT team to my hometown of Philadelphia to reduce the homicide rate that is turning swaths of the inner city into another Baghdad. In the hierarchy of issues that are important in this country, steroid use in baseball has become a bottom feeder. And prosecuting someone because you don’t like him isn’t justice but the complete miscarriage of it.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

No way do I give up Heyward for anything. I don’t give up Hanson unless its for Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy. Even then, I’m trying like heck to keep him out of a deal. I really think he’s going to be that good. Check out his line in AA Mississippi this year: 3.03 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 114 K in 98 innings pitched, almost a 3:1 K/BB ratio. In High-A this season, he had a .90 ERA with a .65(!) WHIP. That’s insane.

He’s a blue-chipper, folks.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Let’s keep Kelly and Martin both around so we can have more time to evaluate their performance(s). Especially Jeff, trading him now would be dumb because we probably wouldn’t get half the return we would have gotten if we would have traded him last offseason. We’ve got more resources than just Kelly and Jeff to use to get what we need.

By Supes

September 5, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

DOB I hear what you are saying KC or the Giants will want impact players who could step in right now.

Well, what do you call Jeff and Kelly plus a minor leaguer, or even a Jo-Jo Reyes thrown in there for a trade potentially for Matt Cain or Zach Grienke?

All 3 of those guys are ready to step in right now. Perhaps if they don’t want Jeff…maybe offer Gregor Blanco or Brandon Jones, both serviceable OF who could step right in as well.

Braves have plenty of serviceable ready to step in right now players who should be made available in a trade for a prospective 1 or 2 starting pitcher.

Jeff, Kelly, Lillbridge, Brandon Jones, Blanco, Jo-Jo, Chuck James should all be made available and are all ready to play in the majors.

While none are grade A players, if you combine 3 or so of them in a trade for 1 or 2 starter, it would be a fair trade.

I think Frank Wren needs to be very aggressive in the trade department, as someone already mentioned the Yankees will be looking to step in and buy all the top tier free agents. They’ve got some jack coming off their payroll. Mets as well, all the top tier teams as far as money will be able to outbid the Braves.

Starters that Frank Wren should target via trades if they are made available:

Matt Cain, Zach Grienke, Jake Peavy, Roy Halladay, Eric Bedard.

If the price is right, pull the trigger Frank Wren. Simple as that.

I think the world is coming to an end…but I tend to agree with Lew as far as his post about 2009 Team. Trade, sign a “B” level starter who can eat innings like Derek Lowe, and definitely get that power bat for LF.

However, I’d caution that the Braves don’t get shafted and get a legit power hitting LF who can jack 30 HR guaranteed.

One more worry is Casey Kotchman, who has been nothing short of disappointing right now. I’m very worried about having him at 1B for a full season. Yes he’s a solid contact hitter who rarely strikes out, but so far he’s showed he’s nothing but a singles/doubles guy at the most. Where is Casey’s power???

I wouldn’t mind Frank Wren offering Casey in that trade for a starter if that’s what is needed to complete it, and go after Mike Jacobs from the Marlins. I know he’s hot/cold and his average is .250 but he is a legit 30HR guy at 1B.

Braves need power from 1B, and LF in 2009 if they are to compete with other lineups.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I agree with you, I think Hanson will be very good. But from the Royals or Giants GM perspective, he has to be in that trade, or there is no trade…..

And initially, I am still asking for Heyward if I’m them.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

[Grienke] has a losing record (yes, I know he plays for the Royals) and his career ERA is high.

That’s pretty important that he plays for the Royals. They haven’t been just a losing team since Grienke came up. They’ve averaged almost 100 losses a seasons since the 2004 season. You can’t shrug that off.

When adjusted for park and league his ERA has been over 20 percent better than league average over the past two seasons. For his career, his adjusted ERA is better than league average.

Also, it can’t be overlooked that ERA is affected by defense. And the Royals haven’t been a good defensive team since 2004.

I think it’s disingenuous to say some of his numbers are uninspiring and shrug off context.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Richbrave No need for an apology on this venue.

OK…Well, just wanted to point it out, seein’ as how “complement” is a word, just wasn’t the right one.

By Prospects are still prospects

September 5, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Who is this Jason Heyward kid? When is he coming up? 2014? We need to win now while Chipper and Bobby Cox are still here……………………………………………………………………………

By ncscoots

September 5, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Brandon Jones, Prado, Blanco and Anderson all together in the lineup makes for a lineup with the punch of a 12-year old girl.

A vilification of 12-year-old girls, that.

I like Brandon Jones, and, were the Braves set at other positions offensively, I’d prefer he get the nod in LF. But, they aren’t, and he won’t, in any reasonable scenario. As for the rest, two hoots.

If Schafer can rake for a month at AAA, he would be the starting CF from May forward. He, at least, provides the possibility of a little thump. And the Braves will need as many secondary bangers as they can get, if you expect Chipper to miss 30 and McCann to sit 30. Regardless of any big-bat acquisition. Prado, Anderson, and Blanco can’t provide that; a return to form by Francoeur and Johnson, plus an injury-free year from Escobar, can.

For those who might think otherwise, please ask the Padres how that pitching-defense-and-punch-and-judy show is working out.

By Steve from OH

September 5, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Baseball America Minor League All-Star Teams. You’ll notice Neftali Feliz was 2nd team.

By Lew

September 5, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

BT-I would give up Francoeur, despite my belief that he will rebound, because it will be infinitely harder to acquire good top of the rotation pitching than it will be to replace Frenchy. That’s all.

Shaun-Dude, I’ve already advocated getting Greinke. Why are you still arguing with me? We agree, Dude. Can’t be any more simple than that. No need to dissect every pitch the guy has thrown to convince me. I’m already there. Peace.

Yunel Lilli-Huh? First of all, how come no one else has mentioned this affliction and second, no one said anything about giving up Hanson or Heyward. The deal was Francoeur, KJ and a minor league prospect (A level, or so), NOT the pitchers or players we hope to be Braves’ mainstays for years to come.

Supes-It will be easier to acquire outfield help and we have several options already, not to mention Schafer, Heyward and Gorkys in the pipeline. I’m fairly certain that even Diaz is still under Braves’ control and he will be highly motivated to prove that his early 08 stats were an anomaly.

If we get the stud pitching dealt with, outfield options exist. Also, if we get the top line starting pitching, the bullpen becomes all the more effective and that takes care of 2/3 of our problems and needs. Pitching comes first and foremost. The lineup I projected would be productive, I believe. Certainly potent enough to win with killer pitching and a rested pen.

By bravos2249

September 5, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Just saying…but If the Braves were going to get rid of Chipper they would’ve thrown the kitchen sink at Tex..no matter HOW much he did or DIDN’T deserve it.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Well, what do you call Jeff and Kelly plus a minor leaguer, or even a Jo-Jo Reyes thrown in there for a trade potentially for Matt Cain or Zach Grienke?

Would you trade Jurrjens for Francoeur, Kelly Johnson plus a minor leaguer or a Jo-Jo Reyes?

By flange1

September 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Yunel Lillibridge is correct. Greineke did have “mental issues” a couple of years back and was out of baseball for a couple of months.

I believe his issues have been completely addressed with drugs and therapy.

He has always put a lot of pressure on himself and I think having the “can’t miss” tag and getting called to ML at an early age made the problem a bit worse.

Everything I have read suggests that he is over his issues. I think it is telling that he has been in the middle of a couple of “beanball” episodes this year.

By BostonBravesGirl

September 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I read that column on Bonds this morning and pretty much agreed with it. While I never liked the man (he had a great feel for the bat but not for the game), I too feel Bonds is getting persecuted, not prosecuted.

He’s obviously been informally blackballed; when a player with numbers like that remains unsigned… well duh. I’m not sure how the government could back off now without losing face, but they’re running the risk of turning Bonds into a martyr, which would be the ultimate irony.

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I’ve already advocated getting Greinke. Why are you still arguing with me? We agree, Dude. Can’t be any more simple than that. No need to dissect every pitch the guy has thrown to convince me. I’m already there. Peace.

Right. But you also seem to be arguing that he’s not good enough for the Royals to keep but he’s good enough for the Braves to want.

I’m saying the Royals aren’t going to trade him unless they are blown away. As much as you want him, the Royals want to keep him and try to sign him long-term.

Can they afford him? Well, they found a way to open the purse strings for Meche and Guillen, and I would think they view Grienke as a much wiser investment.

By Efrim

September 5, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Would you trade Jurrjens for Francoeur, Kelly Johnson plus a minor leaguer or a Jo-Jo Reyes?

Good way of putting it. Except that Cain and Greinke are probably considered to have a better future than Jurrjens. So maybe the Royals or Giants GM would ask for Tommy Hanson to be included. Pretty scary thoughts about what we’ll have to give up to get that young starting pithcer that many here desire.

By jim

September 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Supes, You don’t trade an A for a B, and 2 Cs. I would grade Kelly a B and nobody else on your list as higher than a C (marginal major league talent). I don’t see why the Giants, Royals, Blue Jays, etc. should be so eager to give the Braves the players you want them to.

Lew, Your reasoning on the proposed Greinke trade is reasonable, at least from the Braves perspective, but then you go on to overvalue the talent in the Braves system and our chances for next year’s team. I hope your optimism is justified, but we need to be more cautious. The recent talent has not met expectations. If we look at what the system has produced, we have the period at the start of the run (fueled by a lot of high draft picks) that produced Avery, Glavine, Justice, Gant, Blauser, Lemke, Stanton, and Merker. In the middle of the run (still benefiting from high draft picks before ‘91) the system produced Chipper, Javy, Klesko, Andruw, (Dye), and Millwood. The next wave brought Furcal, Giles, and little else. From the last group to advance, only McCann has become an impact player. The future prospects for JF are in doubt, KJ may develop into another impact player (for the Braves or someone else), and Wainwright has had a big impact — for the Cardinals. Yunel might be another impact player to add to that group. We have seen the likes of Marte, Betemit, Davies, McBride, and Francoeur hyped only to be disappointed. We were told that Morton worked in the mid-90’s and topped out at 97-98, but since he arrived he has rarely, if ever, topped 94 on the gun, and works at 90-92. He has good movement and promising secondary pitches and may develop into an OK starter, but the hype was for a little bit more than what we’ve seen so far. I don’t think adding Greinke, Burrell, and Lowe puts us into the WS next year or even makes us a contender, but the larger question of how good are the likes of Heyward, Hanson, Shafer, Freeman, etc. has to be honestly answered, and as fans we can hope, but not assume that at least 3 of them meet the high expectations we have for them.

By Jonathon

September 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Can someone confirm for me that Chipper is gonna be eligible for the batting title. You have to average 3.1 plate appearances per team game, right? That translates to 500 at-bats, assuming 4 at-bats for 162 games. Well Chipper’s not going to make it to 500 at-bats. Assuming he plays in all of the remaining games, and bats 4 times per game, he’ll end up around 484. Does this matter?

By Shaun

September 5, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Grienke dealt with social anxiety disorder in 2006. But since the start of 2007 he’s 17-16 in 41 starts and has an ERA under 3.70 for a team that has gone 129-172 (.429 WPct.)—the third-worst record in baseball. If I were the Royals, I wouldn’t be too concerned about any psychological issues. I’d be more concerned with keeping his arm healthy.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Can someone confirm for me that Chipper is gonna be eligible for the batting title. You have to average 3.1 plate appearances per team game, right? That translates to 500 at-bats, assuming 4 at-bats for 162 games. Well Chipper’s not going to make it to 500 at-bats. Assuming he plays in all of the remaining games, and bats 4 times per game, he’ll end up around 484. Does this matter?

It’s 502 plate appearances, not 502 at bats. Look at Ted Williams in 1941 or George Brett in 1980. Neither had 500 at bats but had the necessary number of plate appearances.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

The Braves as a team have hit .389 against Bergmann this year, with a .436 OBP and an .861 SLG. Not too shabby.

This is his fourth time facing the Braves this year (second start). He’s compiled an 11.88 ERA in 8.1 innings against Atlanta, giving up 14 hits, 4 homers (two of them by McCann), 11 runs, and only striking out two (Diaz and Johnson).

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG. Get your new blog here, don’t cost nothin’. NEW BLOG. Get your new blog here….

By jim

September 5, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, In 1941 the season lasted only 154 games, so the number of ABs may have been fewer, but I think the requirement for eligibility for the batting title was changed from number of ABs to number of plate appearances some time in the ‘50’s precisely because Ted Williams drew so many walks it became questionable whether he would be eligible for the batting title one year.

By nolie

September 5, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

You now have a lineup of 1.Anderson 2.Prado 3.Chipper 4.Power Hitting RF 5.McCann 6.Yunel 7.Kotchman 8.Blanco/Diaz/Brandon.

…and a fine 4th place finish with a 650-run offense. Lew, come on, man, 2000 AB from Anderson, Prado, Kotchman, and Blanco? That looks competitive to you?

Brandon Jones would have to turn into Roberto Clemente to make that lineup just average, and there’s no chance the Braves will have enough pitching to overcome that kind of offensive anemia.Scoots

pretty much gotta go with Scoots on this one. That seems to me be be the makings of a pretty anemic line-up.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Jonathon, it’s PLATE APPERANCES, not at-bats. He’ll reach it easily, or should.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 5, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Prado? Are you kidding me. The guy thinks defense is something that American fans chant at basketball and football games.

Martin will never be an everyday player until he finds his glove.

By Yunel Lillibridge

September 5, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Lew-HUH? Efrim had mentioned dealing Hanson for Greinke, which in addiiton to other posts about how great Greinke is, precipitated my post about his demons. After quitting the team following a bullpen session in February 2006, Greinke was placed on the 60-day DL in April of 2006 for personal reasons (psychological issues). He suffered from clinical depression and social anxiety. His illnesses have apparently plagued him most of his life. Listen to any interview the guy does. Without bashing the guy too much, his elevator very simply doesn’t get off the ground floor. Here’s a link for some of his interviews on the DA Show (610 AM in KC)… http://deadspin.com/sports/baseball/whats-eating-zack-greinke-247755.php

Again, no doubt the kid can pitch, and I certainly wish him well in his continued road to recovery.

Anyways Lew, I’m glad Frank Wren hasn’t said, “how come no one else mentioned this affliction”, in hypothetical reference to a player he just acquired to play for the Braves. We’ll thankfully leave the Braves’ offseason acquisitions up to “Homeboy Upstairs” #2.

By Brian

September 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t get some of these people’s obsession with Grienke. Why would you trade top prospects and others for another Jurrjens. It would be nice to have him but I’d rather gamble with a vetran ace like Halladay. Where did the Grienke talk start anyway? If we trade for Bedard, like some of you suggest, might as well keep Hampton and save the prospects. Both are injury prone and lefties. Makes no sense to me.

By nolie

September 5, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Can someone confirm for me that Chipper is gonna be eligible for the batting title. You have to average 3.1 plate appearances per team game, right? That translates to 500 at-bats, assuming 4 at-bats for 162 games. Well Chipper’s not going to make it to 500 at-bats. Assuming he plays in all of the remaining games, and bats 4 times per game, he’ll end up around 484. Does this matter?Jonathan

he needs 502 plate appearances not at bats. with his walks, that is a big difference. If he stays healthy for a dozen or so games he should be a shoo-in. Also if a player comes up a few at bats short he can take an 0-fer to get enough I believe. If he had 495 PA he could add 7 at bats with no hits. If he still had the highest Batting Average he would be the winner. That isn’t likely to happen though if Pujols stays right there with him.

By Goodoleboy58

September 5, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Brian

The Grienke talk started because people are under the impression that the Royals are just going to perpetually be the rest of the leagues farm system, which while true in the past, hasn’t been true since Moore took over there.

By Random

September 5, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

richbrave —

Here’s the Subject and text of an email I just sent Furman Bisher:

Subject: A Suggestion (ie, Request) for a Column by Mr Bisher

Mr Bisher —

I am a participant on David O’Brien’s and Carroll Rogers’ AJC Braves beat blog (the “Braves/Man in Black” blog), generally going by the handle “Random”.

A fellow participant on the blog, who goes by “richbrave”, has what he and I and Carroll Rogers all think might be a good idea for one of your columns. I have been given the privilege of relaying his idea to you (his email’s on the fritz (-8). Here it is in his own words:

“O.K. Here’s the body of a request I made through the BRADLEY column. Just edit out what doesn’t fit. [It all fits, buddy. —xx]

“I posted on FURMAN BISHER’s column/blog requesting that he compose an article around the comparative strengths and weaknesses of EDDIE MATHEWSand CHIP JONES since JONES just equaled MATHEWS’ old home run record set in 1966. Why FURMAN.? He’s the last person I know of who was active in BRAVES sports journalism and an adult at that time. Therefore he’s apparantly the last person who bridges the time gap between the two.

“CARROLL ROGERS liked the idea and suggested I e-mail him, but I cannot receive e-mail because of a virus problem. If you have any contact with him could you give him a heads up about my request posted on his current column.” [5 Sep]

Thank you very much for your time and kind consideration of this request, Mr Bisher.

Please allow me also to quote from his original post containing this idea:

“CARROLL ROGERS:

“Would you prevail upon FURMAN BISHER to provide a comparative of EDDIE MATHEWS and CHIP JONES.?

“As he was active in sports journalism at the time (1966) Mathews established the record, and continues to be so into the JONES era, I think it would be revealing to read his thoughts on the two as hitters and team members.” [31 Aug]

And here is Ms Roger’s endorsement:

“RichBrave, great idea. why don’t you e-mail furman and suggest that.” [31 Aug]

Thanks again, sir, for your time and attention.

xxx xxx (“Random”)

I’ll let you know if I receive any kind of reply.

PS:, yeah, I slipped Mr Bisher an emoticon smiley-face.