Braves

By Colonel Lingus

September 3, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

This isn’t MLB.com……Just give me the scoop on the Braves…Thank ya!!!!!!!

By brian

September 3, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

1st?

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

im beginning to like this anderson/prado on top of lineup. They have brought this energy that we have lacked all year long

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

escobar just tied the atlanta season record for double plays hit into…..he has 24 for the year, matching andruw jones (2004) and dale Murphy (1988)

oh and the writers here did a little hand count on attendance at first pitch. they came up with 579!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 3, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the fresh blog, Carroll. You make interesting points and bring up an intriguing debate. I tend to agree with the notion that CC will garner several MVP votes. It’s certainly hard to argue anyone’s been any more valuable than CC this summer…

I’d prob echo your choice, and Chipper’s, as far as the Cy vote. But as Chipper said, if he gets to something like 13 or 14-0, I may look at it differently. One thing’s for sure, he’s look good in a Braves uni next year. An XXL Braves uni…

Another hit for Prado, and he’s up to .350. Keep swingin it Martin!

By Interested Observer

September 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

The game will be delayed a few minutes while we wait for the fan in attendence to get his hot dog and return to his seat.

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

and p.s. something to look forward to when the Braves get back to Atlanta. $1 hotdog nights

They’re selling Deion Sanders for a dollar the rest of the season?

By NCBravesFan

September 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Carroll - I would tend to go with Lincecum based purely on stats. The guy has been money on a team that has had a tough time scoring runs.

Next would be Webb, followed by CC. Sabathia shouldn’t be seriously considered in my book - his pitching a half year in the League has been money, but it is only a half year.

I think the guys who have been in the League for all or most of the year should be considered.

By caballo muerto

September 3, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Ms. Rogers!

By MACMARINE

September 3, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

BOOBY TRIED EVERY WAY TO LOSE THAT GAME LAST NIGHT. LIKE THE PRADO KID. JJ AND CAMPILLA MAY BE THE ACE OF THE STAFF NEXT YEAR!!!! JUST HOPING THAT WE DONOT HAVE BC, TP OR MCDOWELL TO LOOK AT NEXT YEAR!

By brian

September 3, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Anderson/Prado is a good combination at the top of the lineup. Prado seems to be quickly playing his way into the lineup for next year (as is Anderson). Will Prado go to 2B with Kelly moving to LF or traded or will Prado stay at 1B with the Braves trying to move Kotchman?

Great observations by DOB on the “experts” talking about the Cy Young award. This award should be for the best pitcher. I hope it is not turned into a mockery like David Wright winning the GOLD GLOVE last year - that was a complete joke

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I’d go Lincecum. 4th most innings. Lowest ERA. Second-lowest Run Average. Most strikeouts, by a significant margin. Best ERA+.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

22oz (re: your post about the “11”)—

That could be what it was…or a typo. Just kinda odd.

By Bravedawg

September 3, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Chipper’s opinion shows you what a high school education gets you these days. So, Lincecum should be punished because his team isn’t good? Is that his fault in any way? He mentioned Webb and his strikeouts, but not the fact that Lincecum has more? Ugh…I really want to like Chipper more, but the more he opens his mouth the harder he makes it.

By Brian

September 3, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Escobar,with those stats, shouldn’t be near the top of the lineup. Not saying he’s a bad hitter,he’s awesome, but he hits the ball so hard he’s gonna hit into too many DP’s. I’m with the last guy who said he likes Anderson/Prado at the top. I have no interest in who wins the CY Young. Webb, I guess. I’m just interested in who might the Braves get. I don’t think we get CC, but if we did, we’d be back in the playoffs for sure.

By lewie

September 3, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

esco hasn’t produced by any stretch of the imagination this season

he’s been flatout predictable at hitting into those 2x plays and it gets as old as frenchy not getting the job done with the bases juiced

By DAP

September 3, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

sabathia shouldnt win a 2nd half cy young unless he leads the league in wins and K’s and all that stuff, which he wont do. its not a half season award.

i think its a toss up between webb and lincecum.

i have to say, chipper reasoning on why webb and not lincecum is not good. basically its because webb has more wins, and plays for a 1st place team. the wins part i get, but the team shouldnt matter. i havent faced the guys like chipper has, but ive seen them both pitch, and lincecum is more dominant than webb.

to me, when looking for a cy young, wins is the first thing you look at. you take the top couple of guys in wins. but after that, you throw wins out, and look at the stats like Ks, ERA, WHIP, to see how the pitchers really compare. the team they play on should not even be considered. that why cliff lee oughta be an easy choice for the AL.

By Bravedawg

September 3, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Sorry, the comment about Chipper and a high-school education was a little harsh. But it doesn’t change my opinion.

Webb held his team together, and won almost every time out during their early season struggles. Okay - that’s debatable, considering Arizona didn’t struggle at all during the early part of the season. But either way, has Lincecum not won almost every time out ( or at least given his team the opportunity to win—he can’t be blamed if his relievers blow a save)? I just don’t see how you can put anyone above Lincecum.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Posted this in the last blog that is now kaput:

DOB-

Regarding Cliff Lee and Dice K for the CY Young… As a Braves fan this year we know how important it is for the pitcher to go atleast 7innings.. Cliff Lee has done that 17 times including 5 times he pitched 9 innings.

Dice K 7 times he’s pitched atleast 7 innings and only twice did he go his seaon high of 8 innings.

By Rob

September 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Lets talk pitching for the Braves in 2009 and beyond.

1) GOAL #1 - the top priority this offseason MUST be to sign CC Sabathia. Sheets is too frail to rely upon as a long-term ace (and in a long-term deal, which makes it even riskier from a financial perspective). If you cannot sign Sabathia despite offering top dollar (and I can’t recall the Braves offered top dollar for any premier FA), you must attempt to trade for an equivalent pitcher - and, yes, there are very few of those kinds of guys. The one that sticks out most is Roy Halladay, given the Jays depth in the starting rotation and the young premier SPs they have. It would take alot (Escobar, Reyes/Morton, Tyler Flowers, plus another piece?) but it would be worth if IF we could get Halladay to sign a 4-5 year extension.

2) Sign Pat Burrell for LF, or trade for Magglio Ordonez (+ $$) from the Tigers. Illitch is itching to shed payroll after the debacle that is/was the 2008 Detroit Tigers, and Magglio is probably the first one that will go. He’s not having nearly the season he had in 2007 when he was unstoppable, but he’s still good for close to a .900 OPS. We need that kind of power in a corner OF spot and FAST.

3) #3/4 type starting pitcher. Either try and sign Derek Lowe for a reasonable short-term contract, sign Junichi Tazawa from Japan to a reasonable contract, or try and trade for Zach Greinke or Ian Snell - both of whom are good, young talented SPs but not ace-level pitchers. This will give us much needed depth in Hudson’s absence in 2009 (e.g., Sabathia, one of Lowe/Greinke/Snell, Jurrjens, Tazawa/Morton/Reyes, and Hanson). Then in 2009 you have CC (or Halladay), Hudson, Grienke/Snell, Jurrjens, Hanson- much deeper rotation.

That’s where we need to START. Yes, START if we want to have any shot at contending in 2009 and beyond. If not in 2009, then trade for prospects and pieces that will be ready by 2010 and 2011 to compliment our arsenal of young talent in the farm system (e.g., Heyward, Schafer, Hanson, Rohrborough, Freeman, Hicks, Locke, Medlen, etc.)

By Jeff321

September 3, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

And of course, there’s Tim Lincecum. The young stud for the Giants is 15-3 with a 2.60 ERA, which leads the NL. He also leads the league with 216 strikeouts.

I concur!

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

N Nine

I agree with the Anderson/Prado… I like Anderson/Blanco too I just think they both are capable of moving the runner to 3rd with 1 out for Chipper

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

I just heard the Luis Gonzalez is the Marlns Roberto Clemente nominee.. Who is the Braves nominee? Thanks.

By DAP

September 3, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

NL MVP? i think pujols is the front runner there, and that carlos delgado has to be considered. CONSIDERED i said.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Congratulations to Jo-Jo and his wife!!

Let’s go, Bravies!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

It’s certainly hard to argue anyone’s been any more valuable than CC this summer…

Not really. CC is a pitcher so he’s only impacted 11 games so far for the Brewers and 29 games total.

Pujols has played in 125 games and has come to the plate 548 times and leads the NL in all the major offensive categories, is a great defensive player and runs the bases.

Plus, how can anyone be most valuable if he’s not even the best pitcher in the league?

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

I’ve never been on a blog this early.

Hurray! Go me!

By the way, does anybody remember Joe and Boog’s list of top 5 favorite hotels?

I only saw #5 which I think was the one in Washington.

Just curious.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Rob

Grienke may not be an Ace now but he’ll call for a King’s Ransom from the Royals

By Brian

September 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

I said Escobar was an awesome hitter might have been too much. He’s above average but he’ll get better, I’m sure. Even if Campillo struggles the rest of the way, he’ll be good to have in the rotation in 09’. A power pitcher in font or behind him can throw a hitter off.

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

shaun thanks for throwing lincecum’s rank in innings pitched. that’s a key stat i neglected to mention.

By cabravesfan

September 3, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Regarding the Tim Lincecum issue- You guys are right that he should not get punished for playing on a bad team but the truth of the matter is- players DO get punished for that, unfairly so. Guys that play on first or second place teams will ALWAYS get more attention for the post season awards then guys who don’t. That being said, either Webb or Lincecum would be perfectly acceptable as the Cy Young winner- both have been exceptional.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Anyone know how often Escobar has come up with at least a runner on first? He’s second on the team in plate appearances and the Braves rank third in on-base percentage. This probably has something to do with his high GIDP total.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun

By definition the Most Valuable Player doesn’t have to be the best statistical performer. CC has no doubt given Milwaukee everything they wanted and more. If he wins a few more games and has a few more shutouts it’s going to be hard not to consider him in both the MVP and CY Young ballots.

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

pinch runner for yunel this early????????

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

escobar stumbled out of the box. not sure what he hurt. will let you know when they announce something

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Come on, now!

By MOTDawg84

September 3, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Why did Lillibridge just come in to run for Escobar?

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

I’m on board with Lincecum. He’s the best young pitcher right now, next to Jair of course. I want to say “just kidding” but I think we all know that Jurrjens could easily be 16-8 if he had a little luck.

But Lincecum is pretty amazing, young or old. It’s a shame he couldn’t make it to the All-Star game.

Marcus Giles may be out of baseball and maybe he can make a comeback but he’s still a two time All-Star. It sucks when players aren’t able to go to it for injuries.

Especially when there are so many who could care less about going.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Actually just found Double Play Percentage (percentage of the time double play opportunities are converted to double plays) on BaseballProspectus.com.

Escobar is third in the league among players with at least 200 plate appearances.

Kotsay is 16th, McCann is 23rd.

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58

The Braves Roberto Clemente nominee is Tim Hudson!! I miss Huddy already

By supergrass

September 3, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

why is Brent Lillibridge running for Escobar?

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

When KJ starts swinging the bat well he really can hit

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Please just send all the pitchers to winter ball to bunt

By DAP

September 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

im pretty sure escobar hurt his shoulder. he was holding it when he got to first.

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

goodoleboy, braves’ nominee for clemente award is Hudson….John Smotlz won the award in 2005.

some tidbits. braves ERA for the month of august? 6.04, 29th in the majors.

entering play today Atlanta was 19 games under .500. According to Elias, the last time a Bobby Cox-led Braves team was 20 games under was in 1979, when the Braves were 66-94, Bobby’s second season as a major league manager. 1990 team finished 65-97 but bobby was only manager halfway through the season

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58, my definition of value is the player that does the most to contribute to his team winning (whether his team takes advantage or it does not). And it’s very difficult for any pitcher, let alone one that’s only been in a league for about half a season, to contribute more than the best everyday players.

Another interesting stat BaseballProspectus.com publishes: Quality of Batters Faced. They show the aggregate OPS (and other stats) of all the hitters a pitcher has faced.

Of all the 150+ inning NL pitchers, Tim Lincecum’s batters faced have the 15th best aggregate OPS.

By lewie

September 3, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

i really want KJ to come around…when he is on he absolutely rakes

By jmart1951

September 3, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Bravedog: Chipper’s opinion shows you what a high school education gets you these days. Its this kind of attitude that divides people in America today. Since Chipper (who by the way has batted against both pitchers) doesn’t use the same logic as you then he is ignorant. Whether or not I think it is Webb or Lincecum doesn’t matter with regard to my respecting Chipper’s opinion. His credentials give weight to his opinion. I respect his abilities and his baseball opinions. My disagreement doesn’t alter the fact that I would still give Chipper’s opinion serious consideration. Maybe he isn’t as eloquent as you would like. Maybe you enjoy thinking that you have superior intellect. Big deal. If we were all the same life would be boring.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

So are people saying that if a player is traded he then loses the ability to win awards at the end of the season?

What if CC was hurt and didn’t come back to the end of June, would that disqualify him too?

I wonder if Chipper were traded in June would he whine if someone told him he couldn’t win the Gold Glove or MVP despite putting up the better numbers the last 3 months in the heat of the race? I bet he would have something to say.

9-0 isn’t enough right now. I think Webb again. But if Sabathia goes 14-1, 14-0, with an ERA of 2 or less,then he should win it. I think 3 months of dominance during crunch time is enough to win it.

By Random

September 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

DAP: “speaking of shutting down… does anybody else think the braves might should shut down a few pitchers for september? i think they should consider shutting down morton, jurjens, boyer, and seriously limiting ohman the rest of the way.”

Makes good sense to me.

Shaun: “That’s, what, about 20 impact pitchers in all of baseball?”

28.

matt: “Personally, I don’t know why you wouldn’t bring up Schaffer, Heyward, and others to get them some experience.”

Personally, you can find an expanded version of Shaun’s reply here, from DOB and here, from MGL.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Man Infante’s had a rough series in the field

By ObiWanKobe

September 3, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Being in the Dodgers market I’ve gotten to see Webb & Lincecum pitch a few times. If I absolutely have to win one game I’m taking Lincecum all day. He makes hitters look like idiots. Plus, he bats left and pitches right…

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

This is something we’ve never seen from the glory years.. Seems like all year long when we take the lead the bottom of the inning our pitcher goes out and walks a few batters, catches a few bad breaks, and viola the game is tied again.

By DAP

September 3, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

jmart1951 by the way, chipper only has a high school education.

By chopper

September 3, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Allright Bobby!

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Lol MLB.tv had a microphone pretty close to that argument from Bobby.. Got to hear what he really thought about that strike call.

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

i guess i should have said jo-jo’s wife had a baby this morning…..!!!!

By Zipper 66

September 3, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but Bobby Cox is one disturbed individual and a wonderful inspiration for Little Leaguers everywhere.

But the AJC columnists and beat writers love him!

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Carroll and N Nine

Thanks for the response on Huddy… Class act fella

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

I literally can’t believe I’m doing this, but I wrote this blog entry on the Hate to Say It blog right before everybody switched over to this one.

Here it is again:

*”Ms. Rogers,

How come we never get to see a photo of you or DOB in the paper?

For the longest time I kept picturing Jeff Scultz when I would hear O’Brien on the radio until I eventually realized they were two different people.

You beat writers get no love apparently.

If it’s possible to seem attractive from your words alone, well, I would say you do.

Okay, now I just sound like a creep. Who am I kidding? I am a creep.

But hey, guys always like girls who are into sports.

I’m gonna stop before I embarrass myself further.”*

Too late.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

Can you find out if Bobby just kicked the bullpen folks out of the clubhouse? The Marlins feed on MLB.tv has all the Braves pitchers up and stretching at the same time and they were speculating that Bobby may have came and kicked them out of the clubhouse haha. That is some funny stuff.

By Knowitall

September 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, if your checking in, what’s up with the former KU basketball players? Don’t they know better than to stash the pot in their room?

By Mike

September 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

The Braves are nothing but a bunch of minor leaguers except Chipper (who can’t get out of bed in th AM without getting hurt) & McCann. I say make anyone not named McCann available for trade before next year!!

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

But the AJC columnists and beat writers love him! Zipper 66

DOB clearly stated 08 is not bobby cox’s better year. DOB is honest and won’t try to sugar coat things…so your wrong!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

kirknga, well, yeah. If a player is traded from the one league to another and plays 3 months in one league, I think it would be silly to say that player is the Most Valuable Player or the best pitcher of the league in which he only played 3 months. Unless he did something like strikeout every single batter he faced or hit a homerun every time up or something outrageously ridiculous like that.

And yes, if a player misses significant time with injury or for any other reason, that matters. All things being equal, if one player plays 120 games and one plays 150, kind of hard to argue the guy who played 120 made more of an impact.

Also, what about the first three months of the season? Why do the last three months matter more? The games are worth the same in the standings.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Zipper66

I don’t think Bobby Cox aspires to be a little league inspiration. Call me crazy.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but Bobby Cox is one disturbed individual and a wonderful inspiration for Little Leaguers everywhere.

But the AJC columnists and beat writers love him!

You know who is a better and much more influential inspiration for Little Leaguers? Good parents.

By flange1

September 3, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

I am trying to “watch” this game on espn’s game tracker.

Can anyone tell me how the Marlin’s scored their 3rd run?

Thanks!

By Random

September 3, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Shaun: “what’s amazing to me is that no one seems to suggest that the Cy Young should go to a pitcher on a contender but people do it with the MVP all the time. I don’t understand the difference. Both are individual awards and you shouldn’t punish or reward individuals for the play of his teammates.”

I agree.

But, as I’m sure you know, it all boils down to the award’s unfortunate name — “Most Valuable Player”.

“Value” implies a tangible, measurable contribution, not merely excellent and superior performance. And an easy, lazy way to gauge a player’s contribution to his team is the team’s W/L record — the more better the record, the greater the contribution (supposedly).

Which is somewhat understandable. What doesn’t make a lick sense is the vice versa of that — a poor W/L record is seen as indicating lesser or even minimal contribution by the player to the team. That’s what’s most effed up about some people’s take on the MVP award (imo).

If they could just re-name it to something like “Most Best Player”, I don’t think there’d be any problem at all.

By doc

September 3, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

a pride thing for the pitcher? wow

i can hear bobby now, well chipper we got a really good defensive relalcement for you in the last inning or two when it doesnt look like you are going to get any more at bats. pride aside you know how about sitting here with me for the last few outs. com’on chipper, i know that isnt what you really meant to say.

tell that to smoltz if he ever gets in a one run game again, he has his stuff and he has three outs to go. yeah right!

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Norton and Gotay are 2-3 in NL pinch hits this season. I bet that would surprise some people.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Mitchell

Yea that was kinda creepy incase you werent sure

By Erin

September 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

flange1

Try mlb.com’s gameday—I “watch” it at work everyday, and it works MUCH better than espn.com. And you can look back and see how all the runs scored. As angry as it makes me how much they charge for TV/radio, I do like their gameday.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

flange1

J. Willingham singled to center, C. Ross scored, D. McPherson to third - J. Hermida singled to center, D. McPherson scored, J. Willingham to second

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

aggravated left shoulder for escobar. he’s day-to-day….

it’s the one he missed seven games with.

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58, I couldn’t agree more.

I’m done for now. Hopefully, this won’t be another win that got away.

By Brian

September 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Rob- Like the Mag Ordonez thing. He’s in his mid 30s and can still hit. Probably won’t have to give up a ton to get him either. Sign him a short contract if he’ll take it. Agree to that we need an ace really bad. Don’t think Grienke is worth what they’ll ask for him though. Lowe and an ace should do it.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Add Lill’ to winter ball bunting lessons

By flange1

September 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the help folks!!!

I will try mlb.com!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Random, yes, valuable is a vague term for many. Most often MVP voters equate value with hype.

By Rick

September 3, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

You can debate who SHOULD win the Cy Young but I will tell you who WILL win it - Webb . Unless he collapses in Sept. , he wins 20 or more games and if no one else is close , that will wrap up the award . Always been that way , always will be that way .

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you contradict yourself. You say “no”, but then say “yes”, “Unless he did something like strikeout every single batter he faced or hit a homerun every time up or something outrageously ridiculous like that.” So you say it is possible, you just have a near impossible standard. My standard is simply, who has shown to be the best pitcher.

Yes, I put more emphasis on the last half of the season because that is when the pressure on the most and so I would weigh the outstanding performance of a player in the middle of the race a bit more than I would in April and May when every team is still in the race.

Since his arrival in the league, Sabathia has been the best pitcher. It’s silly to say he can’t win the award because he was tarded after the start of the season. He arrived before the half-way mark in the aseaon so it’s not like he got here at the trade deadline.

If he continues on the same trajectory, then he would have outpitched both Webb and Licencum for a substantial period of time. To give the award to someone you know was not the best pitcher, but just pitched a couple of months longer, is weak.

By Jeff321

September 3, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Let me guess! Bobby Cox called for yet another intl’l walk and it backfired again.

By DOG THE MAN

September 3, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

When aree we gong to stop fooling ourselves and come to grips that Braves Mannagement will not be a player in Free Agency and will rely on old arms again. I love Smoltzie and Glavine, but we cannot rely on them any longer. WE NEED TO JUMP HEAD LONG INTO FREE AGENCY. Management will sit back and say things like “We feel pretty good about what we have and we project this and that” BRING BACK TED TURNER!!!!!!

By Herschel Talker

September 3, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Someone please give a good reason why this blog is still relevant.

By Jamie in Richmond

September 3, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Boy, even Ohmman’s ERA is starting to climb…

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Rick, Webb won in 2006 with a 16-8 record with an 3.10 ERA.

If Sabathia can go 14-0, 14-1 with an ERA of 2, then that would be plenty enough to win.

By Brian

September 3, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

I’m not kidding when I say Vladimir Numbnuts might be the worst pitcher the Braves have had in years. Maybe ever. Has he had one good outing? There is no excuse for him being on a majors,minors,college or HS team!!!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

kirknga, let me make it clear: Any pitcher who throws any innings in the NL should be eligible for the NL Cy Young. But a pitcher who throws half the innings that a pitcher who has been as good has should not win the award.

In the majors, pressure is on every time a player goes out on the field. And each game is exactly 1/162 of the season. If a team dominants for the first two months of the season and plays okay the rest of the way, does that mean they don’t deserve a division title as much as a team that is okay most of the year and dominants for the last two months? That’s ridiculous when every win and every loss counts the same in the standings no matter when they took place.

The award should go to the best pitcher in the NL in 2008, and not the best pitcher in the NL in July-October 2008. That would be like giving the AL MVP to Frank Thomas since he’s had the best career of any player who played in the AL this season.

If he continues on the same trajectory, then he would have outpitched both Webb and Licencum for a substantial period of time.

The Cy Young should not be about “ifs.” If I’m a voter, I’m asking Who was the best pitcher in the league for the 2008 season? I don’t add “ifs” to it.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

HT Someone please give a good reason why this blog is still relevant.

Because the Braves are still a team.

By flange1

September 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Herschel,

It is not!

So you can go find another place to be! We’ll be fine without you!

Thanks for your input!

Bye now!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

kirknga, I suppose Joba Chamberlain should be in the running for AL Cy Young. He was one of the best pitchers in the league (2.59 ERA, third best among pitchers with 80 or more innings). I suppose it’s silly to say he can’t win the award because he got hurt and won’t pitch as much as other contenders.

He pitched for most of the first half “so it’s not like he got [there] at the trade deadline.”

If he had continued on the same trajectory, then he would have outpitched both Halladay and Matsuzaka for a substantial period of time. I suppose to not consider him for the award just because he was hurt and a reliever for a while is weak.

According to your reasoning Joba should be right up there with Lee, Halladay and Matsuzaka in Cy Young consideration.

By McFann Ô

September 3, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

flange1—

Good one.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

kirknga, Webb threw the second-most innings in the league in 2006. Newsflash: Innings matter.

By Big Easy

September 3, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

For me, it is Lincecum. Dude is just filthy. Yeah, he is not on a contender, but he is the best pitcher in the league. CC will get plenty of votes, I am sure, and I agree he should be considered, but he hasn’t been in the league all year. For my money, it would be Lincecum and then Webb, with CC coming in third, or so.

But that is just me.

~E~

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Sabathia has 11 Quality Starts with the Brewers. That’s about half Webb and Lincecum’s total in the NL. And this argument is about the NL Cy Young.

By NCBravesFan

September 3, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun - right on at 2:55! If Sabathia had started the season with Milwaukee and been traded to the AL in June, we would not be having this conversation.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Sorry Shaun, CC has pitched more total innings than Webb,has more complete games, has more strikeouts, and has a lower ERA, etc…

Furthermore, since CC has been in the league, he has been the best pitcher.

No sale on the, ” pressure is on every time a player goes out on the field.”. Really? The pressure was on the Braves today, really?

Was the pressure on the Braves the same as the pressure as the Mets or Phillies?

The Cy Young should not be about “ifs.” If I’m a voter, I’m asking Who was the best pitcher in the league for the 2008 season? I don’t add “ifs” to it.

Ha Ha, that’s really bold. Trajectory in this case means to keep on winning with an ERA under 2 and to keep completing games. In other words, a performance that is better than any other pitcher.

Let me suggest to you that if Webb doesn’t win another game, he will not win the Cy Young. Of course by your standards of “no ifs” we should just crown him now!

The Cy Young should go to the best pitcher. Sabathia has been that guy by almost every measure. He already has twice as many complete games in the NL as Webb. To give the Cy Young to a guy who wasn’t the best pitcher for the llast 3 months of the season would cheapen the award.

Shaun when all is said and done, the award is about performance, or should be. Anything other than performance on the field would call into question the integrity of the the process and the award.

By Chippendale Dancer

September 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

And of course, there’s Tim Lincecum. The young stud for the Giants…

CARROLL

Tim Lincecum a stud? He’s way too skinny. I’d only give him a “3” on the stud scale. (10 being the highest = Patrick Swayze or Russel Crowe).

Maybe the AJC should also have a policy of you not voting on “studs”!

By DAP

September 3, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

it looks like lillibridge will get some start at SS. i hope he can make a case to earn a back up job…or maybe increase his trade value….

By Pure Goo, I say!

September 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Even Mr. MaGOO could see that this team is really bad.

Bullpen hands the game away, as usual. Pure Goo.

By Smells like GOO spirit, part II

September 3, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Too bad Blaine Boyer doesn’t live in Seattle and sing with a garage band.

Then, instead of a mosh pit, they would have to have a GOO pit.

Rock on, dudes and babes!

By DAP

September 3, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

HT Someone please give a good reason why this blog is still relevant.

its relevent enough that you are still here reading and posting. idiot.

By There's no "W" in "TEAM"

September 3, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

McF: Because the Braves are still a team.

Only in the loosest possible interpretation of that term.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun, who in the world mentioned Joba Chamberlain? Have I mentioned him? Why would bring him up?

And who said that one shouldn’t include innings? You and your fan are appluading an argument I never made.

Of course innings matter, but if that’s all you have, then that is not a convincing enough argument, sorry.

Since Sabathia has been in the NL, he has been the dominant pitcher. Yes or no?

I will change one thing, as I look at the numbers, I would give the award, at this point, to Lincecum. He has been more dominant than Webb. Webb has the benefit of playing on a better team.

But, as I said before, if Sabathia goes 14-0, 14-1, with a lower ERA, and the Brewers make the playoffs, then he should win the award. He would have earned it with 3 months of dominance, he waould be at that point, the best pitcher in the NL since he arrived in the league.

Innings are nice, but a guy can pitch lots of innings and still lose, ask Phil Niekro about that.

By Blaine Boyer

September 3, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

If the person who is infatuated with me and a tube of “goo” is seen with me at a party…would we be considered “gooing steady”? Boy, my arm is tired.

By JimD

September 3, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Herschel Talker Someone please give a good reason why this blog is still relevant.

Because fine people like you like to come on to bless us with your presence.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Lincecum. What CC does in the AL is irrelevant at this point. Stats back up Lincecum. If CC had played a whole season in the NL, then we’d probably have quite a debate, though.

By Jeff321

September 3, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Manny Ramirez got player of the month.. And Prado also received some votes.

Other players receiving votes were Ty Wigginton (.379, 12 HR, 26 RBI) of the Houston Astros; Albert Pujols (.398, 8 HR, 22 RBI) of the St. Louis Cardinals; Mike Cameron (.360, 9 HR, 22 RBI) of the Milwaukee Brewers; Mark DeRosa (.378, 7 HR, 24 RBI) of the Chicago Cubs; and Martin Prado (.432, 32 H, 9 2B) of the Atlanta Braves.

http://tinyurl.com/558gry

By caballo muerto

September 3, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update, Ms Rogers!

By Random

September 3, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: “When I go to a movie that offends me, I leave. Why should a blog be different?”*

When you leave an offensive movie, do you then never go to another movie ever again? I don’t think so.

“I can’t see subjecting myself to unacceptable behavior on a blog. If I were at a party, and this sort of conversations ensued, I would not stay.”

Again, has one bad party ever made you swear off all parties? This is the third “party” we’ve had since the one you took offense at, the third “movie” we’ve seen since then. Have they all been offensive, in whole or in part?

“For those who for some reason enjoy being controversial or crude, congratulations! You win.”

What a Drama Queen!!! It’s all about you, isn’t it?

“I would also like to state that it was not any particular post that offended me, but a chain of very unflattering comments made towards a woman in the news that went, for the most part unchallenged, and worse yet was contributed to by Ms Rogers.”

Of the nearly thirty-thousand words on that particular blog, “M!?F” appeared eleven (11) times (8 times not counting repeats); “VP!?F” appeared five (5) times (3 times not counting repeats). Over-react much???

“By the way, did I mention that I despise anonymous bloggers…”

All “bloggers” are anonymous, and especially me. Do you hate me, Wayne?

“You know what I hate worse than my teams losing (Braves, Tigers and Jazz are my teams), is lily livered, chicken sh!t posters who love to come on anonymously and poke fun at someone’s serious postings of the night before… . Now, that was not enough for you though, you had to come in and talk about a subject that was never intended for you. uga and I were having a conversation.”

This is an open forum — if you and uga-brave want to carry on a private conversation, exchange email addresses. Or rent a room. Yeah, I definitely think that you two guys should rent a room.

Bottom line — Ms Rogers has already apologized to you personally (“sorry, Wayne in Utah”). Are you really so self-righteous and holier-than-thou that you refuse to accept her apology? If so, well then, good riddance to you — go and doG bless.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Again, CC has pitched better than any other pitcher since he entered the league. So far no one seems to dispute that.

So the only thing remaining is to say performance, dominant performance, is secondary because he pitched 2.5 months less in the league.

So what you all are saying is that even if Sabathia should continue to outpitch evey other pitcher in the NL by almost any measure, he doesn’t get the Cy Young, because the others guys pitched in the league longer, not because they were the better pitcher.

Just admit you would give the award on a technicality, not performance.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

kirknga, the Cy Young is the 2008 National League Cy Young Award. It’s NOT the July-October 2008 National League Cy Young Award. It’s NOT the Major League Baseball Cy Young Award. The only way Sabathia should win it is if you adjust it so that the NL Cy Young turns into the MLB Cy Young or the July-and-on Cy Young Award. Last I checked, this is not what the Cy Young was intended to be.

By hypocrite

September 3, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t feel sorry for Wayne in Utah. Where was his sensibilities when he called all rappers and people who listen to rap dengenerates. Coded language is not a sign of high minded straight foward people.

Now he’s insulted? Please!

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

CC has pitched better than any other pitcher since he entered the league. So far no one seems to dispute that.

But the award is not about the best pitcher since CC Sabathia entered the league. It’s about the best pitcher in the NL in 2008. It’s as simple as that.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

kirknga, Carlos Lee should be the MVP. He’s the best player since CC Sabathia entered the league.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

kirknga, innings/playing time matters a lot when trying to determine MVP, Cy Young, any individual award.

Also, read my first post about why I think Tim Lincecum deserves the award. I brought up four or five stats in addition to innings.

But back to innings/playing time. If you want to ignore that, you must say Chris Dickerson deserves a hard look at NL MVP honors and Rafael Furcal deserves more votes than Lance Berkman and Chipper Jones. You must also say Scott Downs should probably be the AL Cy Young. Taylor Buchholz should be the NL Cy Young.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Like I said, no one will argue that he hasn’t been the best pitcher. No one will argue apparently that he has been dominant.

If you want to weigh all of the factors and come down on the side that counts those 2.5 months as a bigger factor than almost any performance metric, then go ahead.

I weigh all the factors, including time in the NL.That’s why I would not give him the award now. But if he continues to win, with complete games, and an ERA less than two, and with lots of k’s, and his team get’s into the playoffs(which they weren’t at the time he was acquired), then I believe there are more factors that weigh for him than against him.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

I think you run into real trouble if you try to draw lines solely on innings. For example, if a player misses April is he eligible? How about April and May? What if he plays in April, but not June and May? What if the guy misses August and September?

Does the reason he was not playing matter? Was it because of something he did, like he was in jail? Is that different than say he tore a hamstring?

Very tricky stuff. I think a good dividing, in case of a trade, is was there an equal amount or more games left ahead in the season? If yes, then he can win awards.

I think there is nothing wrong with saying a guy wins playing most of the season. I do think it’s difficult to say that a guy has to play all of the season in the league.

By 'ol goo eyes is back

September 3, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer is a big Frank Sinatra fan.

His favorite song is “Strangers in the Night”.

gooby gooby goo.

By TimeForHeadsToRoll

September 3, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Im sick of talking about the same thing over and over and its not just this year. I’m sorry but the pen stunk it up last year too. Only thing different is that we have a couple of real starters and better hitting. Last year it was just Andruw, this year its the whole team.

Until they decide to get real players and pay a little more for dependable arms and hitters who can hit, get rid of Pendleton and sign some real talent, I choose to get the scored the next day. I’m not losing valuable sleep or paying my hard earned money to watch this. Its been this way now for three years. They have been building to lose for three years and they finally hit rock bottom.

With the actual players we have and that included Francoeur, I dont see us going anywhere but down. Our players are not good enough for the majors. And whats more is people sit and want these players playing full time next year. Hey people, these players have played for more then half the year. They are utility and not good enough to be starters.

Spend some money and get two pitchers. Say see ya to Glavine and his ego and Smoltz well its been fun but retire. Keep Jurrjens, McCann and Chipper and start over. Johnson has got to go as well as that 1st baseman. Then start of the outfield. How many home runs did they hit this year together? 10. Wow major league numbers there.

Im really tired. Later all.

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

THE CHIPPER JONES UPDATE:

Chipper-.358

Pujols-1-4 .360 Note:1-7 the last two games

Berkman (not started) .334

Maybe chipper can sit for a while and catchup!

By brian

September 3, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

CC still has a chance to be the best pitcher in the National League this year. He needs to continue his unreal pace though. Anything short of that then Webb may get his second

By Tomas

September 3, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

CC is the best pitcher in the major leagues, and has an immediate contribution to the Brewers. without him they were not going to make it to the playoff, but he has been unhittable, and has been in the nl for the larger part of the season, and has six complete games. Come on, the guy started horribly this season with the indians but after six games the guy became the dominating pitcher that earned him the cy young last year. He should be considered for his total stats this season, and in the NL, because he has played more in the nl.

By mbatl

September 3, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

My preference would be that a pitcher has to “qualify” in the league in order to win the Cy Young (and yes, that would disqualify relief pitchers too); so CC would have to pitch 162 innings in the NL to win the NL Cy Young.

Of course, there is no such rule, so I’m sure the voters will be split, just like the blog is. I really suspect that NL sportswriters will be hesitant to give it to a guy who’s spent only half a year in the league, but that’s just a guess.

Keep in mind: CC has pitched 88 innings in the NL this year; after 92 1/3 innings, Jorge Campillo had an ERA of under 2.9… which doesn’t mean much except that it’s still a very sample size, for a “season-long” award.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

September 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Brandon Webb will win the N.L. Cy Young. Sure, he has stunk the last two starts. But, the Diamondbacks are 20-9 as a team when he starts. Webb already has 21 quality starts and his 3.19 ERA ain’t to shabby.

Lincecum has out pitched Webb overall (2.60 ERA) but he has four fewer wins and when Webb gets his twentieth win, it’s a lock. The Giants will cost Lincecum the Cy Young, which isn’t fair. But, that’s life as we know it.

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

With whats happened to all of our 40+ pitchers this year, makes me have that much more respect for what Phil Niekro did back in the day.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

brian, I agree with you. Sabathia has to keep up his current pace in order to win.

tomas, I think a player shouldn’t be penalized for being traded if they play half a season or more in the other league. Including all the stats does seem fair in some instances, but even if we did, Sabathia would still need to dominate for the rest of the season.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

mbatl, what if a pitcher was injured running the bases and he went 18-2 1.89 ERA IN 161 1/3 innings, 180 k’s, 6 complete games?

What if several others won 18 that year, but none had an ERA under 3 or more complete games, but all pitched 162 innings or more, who wins?

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

In 2003 Russ Ortiz was the only 20-game winner and didn’t win the Cy Young. He had 3 more wins than any other pitcher that season.

In 2004 Roy Oswalt was the only 20-game winner and didn’t win the Cy Young. He finished 3rd in the voting.

Just saying that the it’s not unheard of that the guy with 20 wins automatically gets the Cy Young.

By mbatl

September 3, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

kirknga, that’s why I would like to see a “rule” applied; and in the case you described, it’s good ol’ fashioned tough luck; just as if Chipper or Pujols fell one AB short of qualifying, they wouldn’t be eligible for a batting title.

My view is that a player should have to play a minimum number of games IN THE LEAGUE to qualify for that league’s Cy Young or MVP, just as they do for ERA or batting title.

CC has made 11 starts in the NL, and of his 9 wins, 7 have come against teams with losing records. He hasn’t even faced the Phillies or Mets, or the D’Backs. His team lost his one start to the division leading Cubs (though he had a quality start).

None of that is his fault, but it’s not fair to a guy like Webb or Lincecum who has run the gauntlet in the league, to give the Cy to a guy who hasn’t faced the league’s best teams even once (and I don’t know who CC will pitch against in his last 5 or so starts, so this may change some).

By keylargo

September 3, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

mbatl

I like your min. # of innings to qualify for the Cy Young award but it does have a problem. What do you do about closers? Every now and then one deserves the award but will never have the innings.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Thanks for the Chipper update. Now I have a little update of my own…

Well, first let me say that, seein’ as how it’s the last month of the season (sadly), the Silver Slugger Watch (SSW) is now in full swing (sorry about the pun).

So, let’s see where we are at this point: (need I say whose Silver Slugger we’re watching out for??)

The chief rival in this race is John Grove (most people know him as Geovany Soto). He has the SAME amount of hits—131—as McCann, but Grove has one more AB, putting his AVG of .294 ONE POINT behind McCann (who went 0-4 today…good gosh).

Grove has 21 homers to McCann’s 23, 32 doubles to Mac’s 34, and 80 RBI to McCann’s 77.

It’s a very close race, as you cann see. (Just to point out, Grove has 111 strikeouts to McCann’s 55.)

The Cubs are beginning play, and Grove is in the lineup, batting fifth. There will be a few updates before I hit the hay.

The Quest for the Batting Title and the Silver Slugger Watch…Those are the only races that matter in September 2008, right?

By Arthur Blank

September 3, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Is it possible to get the 1500 fans who still actually go to the Braves home games to go to the Falcon game instead this week so we can get this game on local TV?

After all it’s likely the Falcons will have more wins in September anyway.

By Heath

September 3, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

DOB…not sure if you are reading the blog….just thought I’d let you know that I am in San Diego again for work for a couple of days and I’m headed to Del Mar for some Fish Tacos… and of course, I thought about you.

By enyaW ni hatU

September 3, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Random (hypocrite, pain in you toe, and whatever other monickers you use)

I never said I wouldn’t be checking the blog for updates. I said I was going to quit or curtail severely my posts. (movie and party points you were making)

Also, I never said all that performed or listened to rap were degenerates. I don’t copy all my posts, but I think I mentioned the “hip-hop” in your face mentality.

And, “Sorry Wayne, just having a little fun” is not a real apology. That is like saying “I am sorry you were offended,” “versus not “Sorry I offended you.” Kinda like my kids being sorry they were caught doing something they knew was wrong. Not the same.

Obviously, for some reason, my decision to severly limit my reading and blogging has left some hole in your existance, otherwise, you would just continue along your rude and inconsiderate way.

In some small way, I hope that my return tonight has helped you……dillweed!

By mbatl

September 3, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

I like your min. # of innings to qualify for the Cy Young award but it does have a problem. What do you do about closers? Every now and then one deserves the award but will never have the innings.

keylargo, yeah, that’s a problem. My view is that no reliever is as valuable as a great starter (70 solid innings vs 220 or so), so no reliever should win the Cy Young, but I know that’s not everybody’s view. I guess you could just say that a player had to be on an NL roster X number of games out of 162 to win an NL award, to address that.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

mbatl, I am not saying there shouldn’t be a rule. Shaun implied that it should be a player played all season, now you’re saying 162 innings which is almost the same thing.

I think the line should be less harsh. I think if a guy plays half a season or more in a league then he should be able to receive an award.

You hold the Brewers schedule out to be a negative, but no player can control that. What are Webb and Linncecum’s records against the Phillies, Mets, and Cubs, Cardinals?

I think you make a good case for what tomas said and that is you should include what the player did in all his games including those before the trade. We have established interleague play now so while Sabathia didn’t face the Philies, Mets, and D’backs, Webb and Lincecum didn’t face the Yankees, BoSox, Angels.

By Anders

September 3, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Heath

While your in San Diego be sure to go to the Strip Club restaurant. I think it’s on K street or close to there. It’s a nice steak place where you can grill your own steak if you want. Pretty hoppping bar too with plenty of screens to watch games etc.

Also, go to the rooftop bar at the Marriott Gaslamp. It overlooks Petco park has a huge outdoor fire pit and is usually pretty active.

Just sharing.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Howdy, Wayne! You tell ‘im, man!

Tough game today.

By Efrim

September 3, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Good to see Kelly Johnson swinging the bat well. It would be nice to see him finish at a 280/355/430 mark. He would have to keep this roll going to get there though. I saw someone post earlier that the Braves should shut down some of the youngsters in the rotation. I’m all for Jair being shut down, but I would like to see as much as possible from Reyes and Morton. They still haven’t shown that they belong in the rotation next year. In my mind they are bunched together with Campillo, Parr, Medlen, Hanson and whoever else gets a shot next spring. The only one guarenteed a rotation spot in Jair.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

SSW update! ALERT! ALERT!

Soto singles on a ground ball to right fielder Hunter Pence, deflected by first baseman Lance Berkman.

Waytago, Lance!

Grove is now a point ahead of McCann—his AVG up to .296.

Stay tuned. More details to follow.

By mbatl

September 3, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

kirknga, first, I’m sure not trying to make too big a deal out of this, but it is an interesting discussion.

To me, it’s a LEAGUE award, given for accomplishments in the NL or AL, not overall (actually, baseball has the Hank Aaron Award, given to the best overall offensive player, but no comparable award for pitchers).

But, I did take a look, and CC actually faced the Yankees once (pitched great but lost 1-0), and did not pitch a single inning against the Red Sox, Angels, or Rays while in the AL this year. So, somehow, he’s avoided pitching to about 6 of the top 8 teams in baseball! (and I don’t mean he’s tried to avoid it, just the way it’s worked out).

Again, I just think it’s a league award and should be given to players who have excelled for a full season (or reasonably close to it) in the league.

By stew

September 3, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

At this point no doubt about it. Total victories is more important than ERA especially when one pitcher has 4 more wins than the other. Total decisions indicates that a pitcher went far enough to get a decision. No doubt in my head that Webb should win Cy Young. He has 8 more decisions than Lincecum. I have no problem with the Braves losing. I have a problem with all the retreads. If the season is lost at least can we develop some players for the future. I will never understand the Braves interest in playing Nunez, Dessens, Tavarez, Campillo, Norton, Infante, Hampton et al. I have never seen a team add so many washed up players. The one thing about Tex i’ll never understand is why he wasn’t extended before they traded for him a la Johan Santana. We haven’t signed a quality free agent since Maddux. I think it’s time for Wren, Cox, TP, and MCDOWELL especially to resign. We haven’t made the post season in the 3 years that MCDOWELL has been pitching coach. Guess what our pitching went south when LEO left. Play the rookies. I just can’t stand the fact that we’re losing with players that aren’t going to be around.

By bravos2249

September 3, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

I’m kinda late on the Chipper’s thought’s on CY Young issue but Webb had an 4.45 era 13 K’s vs the Braves…Lincecum had a 1.77 era 18 K’s.

Honestly was he paying attention?

By enyaW ni hatU

September 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

This is not Wayne, it is enyaW, Wayne’s clone, sent to monitor the blog for suggestions of where to eat and watch sports in Sigurd, UT. Any suggestions?

BTW, this sort of year is one that builds character.

Better luck for BH tomorrow night!

;-)

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

Hello friends,

I would just like to take this opportunity to make a follow-up comment on my previous blog entry about our intrepid madam blogger:

Ms. Roger’s,

I can only assume that you were no doubt whole-heartedly flattered by my, um, flattery. I mean, who wouldn’t be?

That’s the type of guy I am, classy. Your’s truly is indeed a class act and one heck of a cool dude.

Okay Braves Nation, hang in there. I’m gonna go grab me a Zima and read the latest issue of my Men’s Health magazine and then after that I’m going to finish watching the last season of Entourage so I’ll be caught up for the season 5 premiere starting on Friday, ya’ll!

‘Cause that’s how I roll. Hey, forget the Zima, make that an Appletini.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

mbatl, no problem, no big issue. I just believe players shouldn’t be penalized by a trade if they outperform others players/pitchers. Others don’t.

Ok, back to the usual.

By enyaW ni hatU

September 3, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Lineup I would love to see:

Anderson CF
Blanco LF
Prado 3B
B.Huey C
KJ 2B
Kotchman 1B
Jones RF
Lillibridge SS

Lotsa lefties though… )

By SNIPER-69

September 3, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

If anyone hears from Lew-Ser tell him he doesn’t have to stay away just because the braves suck. It’s ok if he still thinks they are gonna win the division. We’ll all go with it just to make him feel better. Or we can continue with his therapy and he’ll have to deal with reality and accept the Mets are the best team in the NL East….LETS GO METS!!

By BossLady

September 3, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

We really need some good information in blog this week. Braves inside scoops?

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

mitchell, you’re cracking me up.

just arrived home and beat a storm that may or may not be coming! but hope charlestonians are going to be all right.

kirknga, thanks for pointing out the pinch hit numbers on norton and gotay. that’s a great nugget….and thought both you guys made some good comments on the Cy Young talk. And the guy who said Webb will win it if he wins 20 because that’s how it goes, he might have hit the nail on the head!

Chippendale, point made. It might be a stretch to call a little scrawny kid with big ears a stud….but what can i say. i’m a sucker for a low ERA.

By caballo muerto

September 3, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

SteveOH, I would like to give you a response from the last blog, but Ms Rogers keeps deleting my posts, although they contain no curse words (unlike Bobby Cox’s normal interaction with umpires).

Swell job, Ms Rogers. I know you’re only protecting your affirmative action hire.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

From Stew’s smorgasbord:

“The one thing about Tex i’ll never understand is why he wasn’t extended before they traded for him a la Johan Santana.”

Ok, then let me explain: Tex and agent Scott Boras had absolutely no interest in signing an extension before Tex was traded to the Braves, for same reason he didn’t sign one before being traded to Anaheim. He’s going to get max-dollar on free-agent market.

“I think it’s time for Wren, Cox, TP, and MCDOWELL especially to resign.”

Well, then, let’s write up the papers and tell them Stew thinks it’s time to do some rezinin’, boys.

“We haven’t made the post season in the 3 years that MCDOWELL has been pitching coach. Guess what our pitching went south when LEO left.”

Actually, the Braves ranked ninth in the league in ERA in 2003, and sixth in 2005, Leo’s last season in Atlanta.

They ranked third in the league in ERA in 2007, McDowell’s second season.

But by all means, don’t let those little points stand in the way of your argument. Just thought I’d point it out, in case you care.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Sons of Anarchy series premiere tonight on FX. 10 p.m. Looks promising. The Shield’s final-season premiere last night on the same network certainly lived up to my expectations. Love it. What a show.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Ah, sorry, enyaW!

Never been to Utah, so, sorry, I don’t have any suggestions…

BTW, this sort of year is one that builds character.

Oh yeah…That’s what they tell me…Heard that one in 2006, too…

BH oughta have a better night tomorrow—they’re facing Bergmann, and BH totally rocks Bergmann! He’s hit four career homers off the guy—his highest total against any one pitcher. He’s got a career AVG of .421 against him, an OBP of .500, and a SLG of 1.211! Needless to say, I’m always excited to see Bergmann on the mound for the Nats. (Course, now that I said that…)

I like that lineup a lot! (Obviously, I like to have Chipper, but since he’s hurt…) Any chance we see that tomorrow? Haha…dream on, I guess…

Say hello to Wayne for me! ; )

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

caballo muerto ….I hate to mess with your theory, including my having this job because of my gender, but i didn’t kill your posts. I don’t know how to kill posts. I call the editors and have them do it. and I didn’t call them. You must have been automatically filtered. What a shame.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Silver Slugger Watch

Grove is now 1-2 on the night, putting him in a tie with BMac in AVG.

Course, Grove is at .29530201, while BMac is at .29504505, so Grove is still ahead by about .000257 points…

He’s due up third here in the bottom of the sixth.

By Random

September 3, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

CR: “So there you have it. Which way would I go? I’m leaning Lincecum. First I’d have to think long and hard about giving the NL Cy Young to a guy who hasn’t pitched a full season in the league. Rick Sutcliffe was the exception, winning the Cy Young in 1984 after being traded from the Indians to the Cubs and going 16-1 with a 2.69 ERA in 20 starts for the Cubs. It’s not out of the realm of possibility, but we’ll have to see how many more starts Sabathia has and if he ever loses!”

Interesting thing about Sutcliffe (to me, at least) is that in his 15 starts with Cleveland, his record was 4-5 with a 5.19 ERA. (Let me go double check those numbers — my memory’s been slipping lately, isn’t that right, Joebrave? Okay, I’m back — 5.15 ERA. And a 1.66 WHIP.)

So in his NL CY Young year, Sutcliffe had 15 AL starts and 94.1 IP (and really stunk) and 20 NL starts and 150.1 IP (and totally dominated; eg, 1.08 WHIP). (Btw, he had only 20 starts in a full season with the Cubs in ‘85.)

On the other hand, Sabathia had 18 AL starts and 122.1 IP (6-8, 3.83 ERA, 1.23 WHIP — not that great) and 11 NL starts and 88.0 IP (and totally dominated even more than Sutcliffe with the Cubs in ‘84; eg, 0.99 WHIP).

But I’m with you, CR — Sabathia just doesn’t have enough NL innings to win the NL CYA. And won’t — he has at most five starts remaining this year.

He might could be the MLB CYA winner, if there were such a thing.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Dude, Chase Utley ran over Jesus Flores last night! Sprained the poor guy’s left ankle (we know how that goes with catchers. Poor Flores.)

Chase’s story was the same as Victorino’s: “I knew I had to knock the ball loose. I wasn’t trying to hurt him.”

Come on, Chase, that was a very bizarre “slide”…

Here’s what Charlie Manuel had to say about it:

“That’s the way you play,” said Phillies manager Charlie Manuel. “I wish every one of my players would play that way. That would be good. Don’t say old school, that’s good school. … That’s the way you play the game … unless you want to put some rouge and makeup and lipstick on.”

Well, Charlie, you got Shane and Chase…Just need 23 more “good school” players then, huh? “Rouge and makeup and lipstick”? What kind of crack is that?

BTW—The home-page of the Braves’ website says that Matis is pitching tomorrow, but the article says Bergmann. Didn’t see anything on the Nats’ site that said Bergmann was scratched, so we’ll see…

And Grove got out…He’s now at .29464286…

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

No problem Carroll, got in from the Marlins feed. I was shocked. But then again I thought the Braves bench had been versatile and effective.

I know people laughed at me for saying it the other day, on Bradley’s blog, but I really think the Braves are not far from contending. Certainly not years.

I believe the Braves are set at 1st, SS, 3rd, Catcher. They have 2 closers, 3 late inning guys(Moylan, Boyer, Acosta), a late lefty if they resign Ohman, and their choice of long relief, ground ball guy.

They have at least a number 4 and 5 starter. And 2nd and RF is 50/50 at this point.And they have a versatile bench, though not with much power.

If you look at it, they are 4-5 players away from contending. Not an easy task, but not impossible.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

HAHA! The Nationals hit Utley! The Nationals hit Utley!

“That’s the way you play the game…”

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

That was in the FIRST INNING that Utley got hit! Haha…Retaliation!

I better quit while I’m “ahead”…

By Random

September 3, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

enya: “I never said I wouldn’t be checking the blog for updates. I said I was going to quit or curtail severely my posts.”

Oh, so it’s like a win-win situation — that’s cool. Thanks — keep up the not posting. I’m totally behind you on that. (I vote for “quitting” over “curtailing severely” — hands down.)

“Also, I never said all that performed or listened to rap were degenerates. I don’t copy all my posts, but I think I mentioned the “hip-hop” in your face mentality.”

Well, first off — no, I’m not hypocrite or “whatever other monicker.”

Finally, this is exactly what you wrote on Saturday: “Also, tasteless comments about women are reserved for hip-hop rappers and other degenerates.” Your loss of memory is quite convenient and totally disingenuous.

Secondly, hypocrite (not me) was dead on accurate and justified in calling you out on your apparent racism.

“Obviously, for some reason, my decision to severly limit my reading and blogging has left some hole in your existance, “

Well, it ain’t obvious to me — I’d be delighted if you actually did leave. I’ll make no bones about that. You’re a self-important, smug, pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou ignorant jackaxe.

(Unless by “hole” you mean something like “light at the end of the tunnel” — that works for me.)

“otherwise, you would just continue along your rude and inconsiderate way.”

I merely give as good as I get — I don’t pick fights unless someone (like you) starts one with me.

Ta-ta. doGspeed.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

McFann’s really showing her inner hockey player tonight…

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH—

My inner hockey player?

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Grove is still ahead by about .000257 points McFann

Lmao..talk about being a true fan! It’s like me watching every second of chipper Jones!

Tough day for Mcann. But he will/should beat your nemises. I believe.

As far as chipper, This break might be good for him and guves himself a rested a motivated charge at winning 2008 NL/MLB BA Title.

With Ms. Rogers saying he needs 30 AB thats around 10 more games, should not be problem at all! Take your time Chipper.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Hey! Grove went 1-4. He’s officially a point behind McCann now.

Whew! That’s done for the night.

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

HAHA! The Nationals hit Utley! The Nationals hit Utley!

If i Can change that sentence to Braves hit Victorino, I can sleep in my cave happy all winter long.

By Anders

September 3, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Hey, anybody see the Phillies tonight? Apparently the Mets just might not have the weakest bullpen in the East after all.

Hmmm. Who’d a thunk it?

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

N Nine:

Oh man. If they would hit Victorino, it would make my day.

McFann:

Guess you didn’t get the joke. Sorry ‘bout that.

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Lm[b]o..talk about being a true fan!

Thanks…Gotta tell ya, I love it!

I believe McCann cann beat Grove, too…It’s gonna be a close race, but’s it’s kinda fun to watch (unless McCann goes 0-4 like he did today).

Only 30 more AB for Chipper? Well, he just needs to hit, oh….667 in those 30 AB? That sounds good to me…

If i Can change that sentence to Braves hit Victorino…

Well, the Nats waited one day…and since the Braves weren’t playing the Fillies the next day, they couldn’t do that…So they must be saving their “best shot” for the series at Turner Field…We shall see…

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH—

No, I’m sorry…It really bugs me when people are trying to be funny and I don’t get it…Sorry…I think I’m on the verge of getting it…

Hitting Shane would make my day, too.

Anders Hey, anybody see the Phillies tonight?

Oh yeah! Sweet success! (But I’m not gonna shout “GO NATS!”, because, well, it wouldn’t be right for the next four days!)

By The Conscience of the Blog

September 3, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Just logging on to tell Wayne in Utah to hitting the effing road, no one cares about people who think they “own” a public forum

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Holy Cannoli! It’s 11:02? Dang…

These conventions keep the household up almost as late as the 2008 All-Star Game!

By McFann :Ô:

September 3, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Oops, Haha…My thing posted at 11:03…That’s good…

Gotta split! Night, all!

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Myrtle Beach won the first game of the Carolina League playoff series 6-4. Gorkys Hernandez was 2-4 with a HR. Tyler Flowers was 2-4. Jason Heyward was 1-4 with a 2B. Jon Owings was 1-3 with a 2B.

Scott Diamond got the win, going 7 innings, giving up 1 ER and striking out 4.

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Carroll Rogers likes me.

Woohoo!

Stay classy Braves Nation.

By MiamiBrave

September 4, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

DOB/MS. ROGERS

DOB kicked around the opinion that Furcal had interest in coming back…Just cus this was on my mind after hearing Kelly could be a candidate to be dealt (even though I personally like him and think he has great potential) just wondering how that rumor could fit in

if DOB can get wind of that, obviously can’t FW? that’s a solid 3 outa 4 in the infield, even though Kotch should regress to the norm, I’d be happy if he gives us production similar to the numbers he had for Anaheim (up to the trade) this season

dunno wanted to talk free agency, cus on the field not much to say about it

By ObiWanKobe

September 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

This is the best slap-happy blog of all time. And I should know I’ve read them all. It’s nice to see most have gotten over the frustration that has been 2008. Thanks to all and based on the postings I’d recommend drinking lots of water and maybe an Advil.

By One Last Wayne in very rural Utah

September 4, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Now all you “Non-Random” types actually know how I think. Obviously you have picked up on my “racism” and the fact that I think I own the blog.

You are so smart.

Again, Random, at what point did I “pick” a fight with you? I have gone back and did a search (which you seem so adept at doing), and unless you were one of those other azzholes, I can’t seem to find it.

So, either you ARE those other bloggers, (and if you are, then that is a sure sign of cowardice, not being willing to attach your name or screen name to statements you make), or you just decided to weigh in at 5:21pm today on a very difficult decision that I had made.

Just seems so damn convenient that you are around whenever someone is trying to slam me in a post.

Was there something that I was saying that hurt your sensibilities? I am so sorry if not wanting to support or encourage a blog that went as far as this one did last weekend in denegrating women of a particular political party, goes against your personal judgement. Does that mean that you enjoy degrading women? Just curious.

So, go look in the mirror and see if calling me out has made you feel better about yourself.

I think it is sad when people can come on a blog and lose themselves in an identity that would never fly in real life.

I will be back to read the blog from time to time. I love the Braves that much, and this is the best place to get connected Braves info. (thanks to DOB for that!) Dave, I will gladly come back and be a full contributor and not just a reader if you and the IT folks can figure out how to tie a blogger to ONE screen name. Otherwise, I am a reader only.

As for Ms Rogers, I was really dissappointed in her behavior in supporting those that would denegrate other women. I was shocked to see her going along with tasteless jokes and innuendo toward other women. Her apology was a shallow one. She was sorry I was offended maybe, but was she sorry she took part in that exercise? I was given no reason to believe she had any regrets about her condoning the “American Pie” atmosphere.

Carroll, thanks for the plug a couple years ago that caused me to win the second blog award. I love my picture of Dale Murphy that Lew sketched. Your silence these past few days has been deafening.

Now, I will get Random and all his “Random Buddies” to go on the attack again, but who cares…….

I know who I am and what I am, and will not apologize for it.

(in anticipation of Random’s response, my answer is “take a hike, dimwit!”

Nite….

By prattvillenolzfan

September 4, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

I was in Cincinnati last week-end and was able to take in a Reds game…

I know he won’t get many votes, but I saw Edison Volquez pitch..He is now 16-5, should get some consideration for the cy young award (don’t see any 1st place votes, but maybe 2nd/3rd place votes)

Also, the LF they called up after trading Dunn, Chris Dickerson is absolutely a stud (as I type this, I see where Volquez pitched tonight, K’d 13, and Dickerson hit another HR….) I didn’t hear much about him in the minors, but his 1st month of the season is reminescent of how Franceour started. Power/Speed/Arm…..

Watching the Reds, they have alot of young talent. They actually have a better record right now than the Braves do.

Watching the game this week-end and talking with some die-hard Reds fans got me to thinking (which can sometimes be dangerous……)

I’ve seen it posted before, and I certainly don’t suggest we need to do this, but the Reds were willing to jettison Dunn & Griffey to build for the future, perhaps it might be time for the Braves to do the same with Chipper….

From a logical standpoint, is it worth keeping him around if he is only going to play in only 100 games a year….

Let’s take this week for instance

What IF we were still in playoff contention. What if we were only 2 games out this week, and Chipper goes down again It’s getting to the point where IF the Braves want to contend again, they can not afford to keep/depend on Chipper…

Now before any of you start to blast me & calling me all sorts of names, let’s Rationally look at this…..I’m not saying the Braves need to trade Chipper, I’m just throwing it out there….Also, does Chipper want to go through a rebuilding process…

If we do trade him, think of the prospects we could get…

Sadly, this year confirmed that the Braves run is definately over. It is definately time to rebuild. There are a few young cornerstones to build this team around, there are many questionable players as well.

Trading Chipper should allow us some quality players in return that should help immediately. I know he now lives in Texas during the off-season and I have read interviews where he really likes playing in Arlington & Houston….

By Trading Chipper

September 4, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves believe they are in the rebuilding mode. I would not use the term rebuild. I would think more along the lines of a re-tool. Chipper only goes if he is offered the opportunity to go to a team with a better shot at the playoffs than the Braves, and if it is his decision.

By ObiWanKobe

September 4, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Pratt; Chipper isn’t getting traded; being 10 & 5 he wouldn’t allow it. Second of all you’re not going to get a whole lot in return for him w/ his age & salary. There are 5 teams that would be willing to accept his salary (Yankees - ARod, Mets - Wright, Cubs - Ramirez, BoSox - aren’t stupid and are stuck w/ Lowell & Angels - who don’t deal prospects) so he’s staying. Thirdly the fan base, myself included would revolt.

By keylargo

September 4, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

I don’t think CJ is going anywhere either but his salary in 2009 would be picked up by almost any team except the Marlins. He is in his option year which will be picked up for between $10 and $11 million.

By Anders

September 4, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

How about Chipper and Johnson to the Yanks for Cano and Hughes? It could happen - The Yanks are really dissapointed in Cano this year and this whole young guns thing is wearing thin with Hankenstein. He’s gonna buy Sabathia and any other decent arm[s] out there this off season. No way Hank sits tight another year waiting for prospects to deliver.The Braves are going to have to trade for pitching because there is no way they will spend what it’s gonna take for the limited supply this FA season.

Chipper could take Giambi’s place at first and DH some.

By Anders

September 4, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

BTW- DOB posted on here that Chipper said he would accept a trade if it would help the team and that’s what mgt wanted. It would be on his terms of course. I don’t see him having a problem going to the Yanks. Last time in NYC he was gushing about how he’s come to really like NYC and the fans etc. He even said he’s wondered what it would be like to put a uniform on in NYC. Pretty forward stuff.

I think he’d try to get his 2009 deal renegotiated into a 3 year $40 mil type deal which is chump change for the Yanks. Gimabi’s making $22mil per right now and he’ll be gone.

By Trading Chipper

September 4, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

Anders: Do you really think the Braves would go for Hughes? I think Cano and Johnson are fairly straight up, maybe a slight advantage to Cano.

So, is Hughes worth giving up Chipper? I think if the Braves ever were to consider trading CJ, they would need either several prospects, or someone with a better track record. (Wang?)

I just don’t see it happening. I would not be opposed, as I think it is time for a 2 year re-tool versus trying to patch it all together in one off season.

The guy on the Braves site (Mark something or other) mentioned a few weeks ago that Escobar could be dealt.

Would Escobar and JoJo Reyes be enough trade bounty to get someone like Shields from Tampa Bay? They have 5 decent starters with 2-3 decent prospects in the high minors.

By Soup's On

September 4, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves should look at sending Casey Kotchman back to be with his family. Is anybody else curious enough about whether Richie Sexson still has anything left? Maybe a manager like Bobby Cox would be just the nurturing type he needs?

By Anders

September 4, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this

Trading Chipper

Johnson and Cano are about equal? Wow, are you delusional. While Cano has some attitude issues, he’s basically big leaguing it before he’s earned it, but he has every bit the potential and more of a track record than your boy Escobar has. Now if you think Escobar is equal to Johnson well then we don’t have the same view of Johnson.

As for Hughes, the guy is still a very highly rated pitching prospect which as many Braves fans are recently finding out don’t just fall out of the sky. I actually think I was being generous offering two young highly touted players for Chipper and a guy who’s a well below average fielder with a decent bat. Remember, Chipper is 36 and can’t play more than 110 to 120 games year anymore (at least in the NL).

If your goal is to keep him around so fans can feel good about yesteryear while they come to games the next couple of seasons then ok, so be it. But if the Braves are serious about contending again in the near future they better take stock of what there assets really are and figure a way to maximize them.

By Metropolitan Man

September 4, 2008 4:25 AM | Link to this

Blacks make up 13% of the population in america….yet over 55% of the AIDS population!Black males are over 20 TIMES more likely to have Syphillis than whites, and Black males leave over 70% of their kids with NO fathers!

It was called the Tuskegee experient for Syphiliss, there is still a conspiracy theory about Aids and crack being introduce to predominanatly black areas. Where did black people who were considered poor get the resources to bank such elaborate drug cartels? Black men have been taken from their families frOm day one, no wonder therE is a problem of sticking together. Other than that,

LETS GO METS!

By Random

September 4, 2008 4:57 AM | Link to this

BravesFan79 —

I really am not hypocrite, though I do agree with his comment re WiU. Since I’m happy to admit that, why would I demur taking credit for it? Y.A.I.

As to the rest of your 3:49 and 4:13, you really are an idiot (and most likely a drunk idiot at the time).

Me? Offended?? Au contraire — I (and I’m sure a few others here) appreciate you showing your true colors.

In vino, veritas.

Now that you’ve come out of the closet, there’s no need for you to hold back any longer — you can regale us all with additional anecdotal evidence of your hateful ignorance. Feel free.

By Random

September 4, 2008 6:03 AM | Link to this

One Last Wayne in very rural Utah —

Still here, huh? Well, so be it — I’m pretty much used to it anyway.

Much as I would have dearly loved to let you remain “in anticipation”, I’m compelled to make a clarification.

“Now all you “Non-Random” types actually know how I think. Obviously you have picked up on my “racism””

What I said was this: “hypocrite … was dead on accurate and justified in calling you out on your apparent [emphasis added] racism.”

I know full well that saying something that seems racist to some is not conclusive evidence, let alone proof, of racism. On the other hand, it’s totally legitimate to call someone on a seemingly racist remark — in my opinion.

I don’t know you well enough to draw that conclusion about you, and I’m looking forward to a continuation of that happy (non)relationship. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.

That’s all I really wanted to say, but what the h3ll …

“So, either you ARE those other bloggers, (and if you are, then that is a sure sign of cowardice, not being willing to attach your name or screen name to statements you make),”

Not exactly a logical argument, but since you called me out —

Yes, I posted under Pain in You Toe for one specific comment about your “keep politics off the blog” rant. I forgot to change it for my comment about the Serenity “Prayer” — I had intended to post normally for that (which actually was a sincere attempt to help you remember what your grandfather might have said to you 30 years ago).

I’ve posted under numerous other handles — Niels Boor, of course (chrisklob leaps to his feet, pumps his fist and crows “I knew it!!!”), back when I tried to segregate my contoversial or possibly offensive comments from my non-controversial ones. I eventually gave up that split personality.

*Some Blogs … * have jokes, have colloquialisms, have quizzes, rip off Seinfeld, etc, etc — yep, me. For humor untainted by what anyone thought of Random.

And other ad hoc handles. So what? They’re ALL anonymous pseudonyms, like every other handle on this blog. What does it matter if, say, it were actually the same person posting under Lew, Shaun and Braveheart??? It doesn’t, imo.

“a blog that went as far as this one did last weekend in denegrating women of a particular political party” Geezum, Will — it was totally nonpartisan. Are you that guilty and ashamed of belonging to the “me first”/”I’ve got mine, yer on yer own” (YOYO) party? (See, that was partisan.)

“So, go look in the mirror and see if calling me out has made you feel better about yourself.” Hey — not just myself — I feel better about you, too. I think we had a “moment”.

“I think it is sad when people can come on a blog and lose themselves in an identity that would never fly in real life.”

Trust me — it flies. Many people who know me “in real life” also think I’m an axehole — mine is not a false persona here. (Many others either don’t think so, or else are willing or even happy to make allowances for it. As I do for them. That’s life.)

Welp, that’s all I got time for — I think it’s enough. Or more than. (Gotta go get ready for the AT, half a mile from my Smoky Mountain home — it’ll be good to stretch my legs out in the autumnal alpine air.)

Later.

By Random

September 4, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man —

Looks like we may be (uneasy) allies in some matters.

Oh, well — better y’all than the filthy Fillies.

By Ronald Millsaps

September 4, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

Great topic of discussion here, as three different guys make extremely-strong cases for Cy Young.

Shaun—You think C.C. Sabathia only impacts the games he pitches in? You don’t think all the rest he gives his bullpen helps the team in subsequent games? Ask Bobby about this topic, as he has had to pull many a pitcher out in the third or fourth inning this year.

Speaking of Bobby, someone (Robert?) did some serious criticizing of him in a previous blog. (It’s the guy who uses way too many commas.) Bobby has made some poor decisions since the start of 2006, but to try to berate the man as the unwise blogger did is pretty ignorant.

Has he made mistakes? Yes. I’ll type a few to give examples: He shouldn’t have used Charlie Leibrandt in relief in Game Six of the 1991 World Series. You need a power pitcher in that situation, not someone crafty.

He shouldn’t have used Leibrandt in Game Six of the 1992 World Series, for the same reason. He also shouldn’t have pulled Deion out of the series, as he was batting nearly .500, to make room for Ron Gant, who was ice-cold in the series.

Bobby does opt not to go with the hot hand way too often and instead overplays the rightie-lefty matchup completely.

He didn’t start Kevin Millwood in Game 1 of the 2002 NLDS versus the Giants and should have. Millwood was the best pitcher Atlanta had that season. Again, the hot hand wasn’t rewarded but instead the more-established Greg Maddux. (Just a reminder: If the 1991 Braves had had this approach and belief, they wouldn’t have gone from worst to first, as they would’ve been overlooking the present to regard unduly the past.)

This season, way too many times has Gregor Blanco not attempted a stolen base. Way too many times has a pitcher not challenged a hitter. There needs to be more aggression. Thankfully, we are indeed seeing more now—and promising signs for 2009.

I’m not saying Bobby doesn’t deserve criticism; I just don’t like when people essentially look at a record only and assume everything’s the manager’s fault. People oftentimes are extremely shallow in their “logic”, as can be seen on this blog.

Back to the topic at hand, I’d go Sabathia (thanks to his unreal pitching, which outweighs his short length of time in the NL), followed by Tim Lincecum and then Brandon Webb. VERY close call here, and I’m glad Carroll Rogers isn’t showing a bias against Lincecum due to the Giants’ record, which is a moot point.

As for Albert Pujols, why do people act like this season is his best so far? His 2003 campaign was clearly better.

Josh Anderson and Martin Prado are providing an amazing one-two punch atop the order.

By Billy Walsh

September 4, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

Johnson and Cano are equals? Wow…Cano is having a terrible year offensively and defensively…and his numbers are still better than Johnson’s. Cano is a lifetime 300 hitter.The Yankees will probably deal him in the offseason..for a young pitcher (maybe a Greinke? Cain?). As a braves fan, this pitching staff this year and next year has to worry you. Smoltz? Glavine? Hampton? Who returns? Reyes has been inconsistent, so has Morton. Hanson is at least a year away. Locke, Medlen, Rohrbough, at least two years away.If the braves do not want to dabble in the free agent market, what kind of trades are they going to make? Greinke? Cain? A package that would probably have to include Heyward and Hanson for starters.. Hey DOB, entourage this Sunday!!

By SNIPER-69

September 4, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

So who do the brave fans think will win the division. Mets or Phils. Big weekend series coming up.

By flange1

September 4, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Sniper,

Good question!

In my mind it will come down to who is pitching the best RIGHT NOW.

Both bullpen’s a re struggling.

I think it is a tossup…..

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Shaun implied that it should be a player played all season…

Let me make this clear: The only criteria I have for the Cy Young is that is should go to the most valuable pitcher in a league during that season. Kind of hard for a pitcher who starts half as many games as others to be as valuable as the others.

Shaun—You think C.C. Sabathia only impacts the games he pitches in? You don’t think all the rest he gives his bullpen helps the team in subsequent games? Ask Bobby about this topic, as he has had to pull many a pitcher out in the third or fourth inning this year.

Okay, but can’t the same be said for Tim Lincecum or Brandon Webb or Santana or Hamels? It’s not like these guys are coming out of games after three or four innings.

And if CC throws 88 innings in the NL, even if he’s been better, how can he make more of an impact than a great pitcher who has thrown 190.1 innings?

I suppose Chan Ho Park deserves more NL Cy Young consideration than Brandon Webb. Park has been the better pitcher per inning and has thrown almost as many innings as Sabathia in the NL.

Or maybe we shouldn’t consider just what they’ve done in the NL in 2008. Maybe we should give the NL Cy Young to Greg Maddux or Pedro Martinez since a consideration for the 2008 National League Cy Young Award shouldn’t be what a pitcher has done in the National League in 2008.

Okay, don’t know how to make the point any clearer than that.

By Steve from OH

September 4, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Cano also has a lifetime OBP of .336 (Kelly’s OBP this season: .337). He’s been worse than Kelly this season (.245 EqA, ouch). Cano’s lifetime SLG is really good, though. Cano has a slightly better career EqA than Kelly’s because of this (.275 to .271). While Kelly still has room to improve (and has shown that he can be very good in the past), Cano has already played four full seasons, so I’d be willing to bet he’ll stay about where he’s at, or at best be a .350ish OBP guy.

Give me Martin before a stupid trade for Cano.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Hmm…No Bergmann tonight. He’s been bumped to tomorrow night—which is good, the Braves will still get to face him.

Martis (sorry, I called him “Matis” last night) is making his ML Debut tonight. Oh well…at least he’s right-handed.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Sweet! No Cubs tonight! I hope BMac takes advantage of that, if ya know what I mean (of course you do).

By im4ball

September 4, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

For me, the NL Cy Young should be

1) Sabathia. He his win percentage and ERA since he has been in the NL just beat everyone else. I disagree with Chipper on the impact of complete games. I am sure the Braves would like to have a pitcher make it past the 4th inning let alone finising a game.

2) Lincecum. His ERA and win percentage on a bad team stand out above Webb. And, while I am not necessarily a strikeout fan, (strikes out usually mean high pitch count…just ask Greg Maddox) it does represent how much he dominates batters.

3) Brandon Webb. Total wins to me represent a team effort…especially in this age where relievers are used so much more.

In Webb’s case, his ERA is only average (compared to Sabathia and Lincecum) so his TEAM is bailing him out with their bats.

DOB…Son’s of Anarchy was great and I look forward to seeing more of it. However, whats with the overuse of the word sh*t? Is FX just trying to push the envelope again or can’t the writers think of something else to say?

By Lee in S GA

September 4, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

So who do the brave fans think will win the division. Mets or Phils. Big weekend series coming up.

I’d bet on the Mets winning the division; however, I bet against them making the W.S. much less winning it.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Sniper So who do the brave fans think will win the division. Mets or Phils.

I couldn’t care less!

But the Q was: “Who do you think will win”, not “Who do you want to win”…

Honestly, I try not to think about things that unpleasant.

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Billy Walsh, Yankees would probably have to give up a whole lot more than Cano to get Grienke or Cain; probably Cano and one, maybe two, of their young pitchers. In which case, why would the Yankees do it?

I have a feeling Grienke and Cain aren’t going anywhere unless someone offers their teams another young stud pitcher and another top young player.

Sniper, I think the Mets have to be the favorite at this point, with the three-game lead. But that can change very quickly.

The remaining schedule favors the Mets, also. After playing each other, both teams will play the Braves, Marlins and Nationals. While the Mets have four left against the mighty Cubs (sounds strange, huh?), they have a whopping six left against the Nats, a team which has the worst run differential in baseball and are only percentage points ahead of the Padres for the worst record. The Phillies only have three more against the Nats and they have four games left versus the Brewers.

Look at it this way: If the Phillies sweep the Mets this weekend—which obviously is unlikely—they are still only tied with a Mets team that will have a slight edge with the schedule.

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

im4ball, do the complete games and superior pitching make up for the fact that he’s thrown less than half the innings in the league as most of the other candidates for the 2008 National League Cy Young Award?

By Metropolitan Man

September 4, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

METS have lost the 1st game of a series with the philthies all season and then proceeded to win the rest of the remaining games. Gotta love those numbers Sniper.

By SNIPER-69

September 4, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Mcfann, I’m sure watching the brave season crumble was Unpleasant. Then seeing the METS leading the standings makes you completely ill. Unfortunatly your condition may be long term. I don’t see the braves getting better anytime soon.

By nolie

September 4, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

ESPN Top 50 draft prospects for 2009

Wednesday, September 3, 2008

With summer ball over for the draft class of 2009, here’s a ranking of the top talents for next year’s draft to tide everyone over through the offseason. As always, this is not a prediction or a consensus nranking, but the result of my own evaluations of players across the summer and spring.

RANK PLAYER POS SCHOOL

1. Stephen Strasburg RHP San Diego State

2. Grant Green SS Univ. of Southern California

3. Alex White RHP Univ. of North Carolina

4. Kyle Gibson RHP Univ. of Missouri

5. Dustin Ackley CF/1B Univ. of North Carolina

6. Aaron Crow RHP Fort Worth Cats

7. Andy Oliver LHP Oklahoma State

8. Matt Davidson 3B Yucaipa H.S., Yucaipa, Calif.

9. Donovan Tate CF Cartersville H.S., Cartersville, Ga.

10. Robbie Shields SS Florida Southern

11. Matt Purke LHP Klein HS, Spring, TX

12. Shelby Miller RHP Brownwood H.S., Brownwood, Texas

13. Ben Tootle RHP Jacksonville State

14. Mychal Givens RHP H.B. Plant H.S., Tampa, Fla.

15. Tyler Matzek LHP Capistrano Valley H.S., Mission Viejo, Calif.

16. Kentrail Davis LF Univ. of Tennessee

17. Beau Wright LHP Los Alamitos H.S., Los Alamitos, Calif.

18. Jake Marisnick OF Riverside Poly H.S., Riverside, Calif.

19. Ryan Wheeler 1B/3B Loyola Marymount

20. Jason Stoffel RHP Univ. of Arizona

21. Randal Grichuk OF Lamar Consolidated H.S., Rosenberg, Texas

22. Josh Phegley C Univ. of Indiana

23. Ryan Ortiz 1B/C Oregon State

24. Bobby Borchering 3B Bishop Verot H.S., Fort Myers, Fla.

25. Jonathan Walsh C Coppell H.S., Coppell, Texas

26. Matt Graham RHP Oak Ridge H.S., Spring, Texas

27. Josh Fields RHP No school (under control to Seattle)

28. Brad Boxberger RHP Univ. of Southern California

29. Brad Stillings RHP Kent State

30. Jacob Turner RHP Westminster Christian Academy, St. Charles, Mo.

31. Brian Pearl RHP Univ. of Washington

32. Daniel Webb RHP Okaloosa-Walton College, Niceville, Fla.

33. D.J. LeMahieu 3B Louisiana State

34. Zach Wheeler RHP East Paulding HS, Dallas, Ga.

35. Geno Escalante C Rodriguez H.S., Fairfield, Calif.

36. Keyvius Sampson RHP Ocala Forest H.S., Ocala, Fla.

37. Bryan Berglund RHP Royal H.S., Simi Valley, Calif.

38. Trent Stevenson RHP Brophy College Prep School, Phoenix, Ariz.

39. Rich Poythress 1B Univ. of Georgia

40. Sean Black RHP Seton Hall

41. Jordan Cooper RHP Shelbyville Central H.S., Shelbyville, Tenn.

42. Colton Cain 1B/LHP Waxahachie H.S., Waxahachie, Texas

43. Bryan Morgado LHP Univ. of Tennessee

44. Alex Wilson RHP Texas A&M

45. Cohl Walla RF Lake Travis H.S., Austin, Texas

46. Austin Maddox C Eagle’s View Academy, Jacksonville, Fla.

47. Shaver Hansen 3B Baylor

48. Ian Krol LHP Neuqua Valley H.S., Naperville, Ill.

49. Kendall Volz LHP Baylor

50. Ben Paulsen 1B Clemson

RHP Tanner Scheppers, late of Fresno State, isn’t on the above list because in the absence of firm medical information and in the wake of reports he threw poorly for the Pirates before the signing deadline, I can’t include him. A fully healthy Scheppers would rank in the top 10-12 spots, probably around No. 9 or No. 10.

Andy Oliver (No. 7), who was suspended for an eligibility violation when he was coming out of high school, has been reinstated to Oklahoma State via a temporary restraining order; there will be a hearing to make that order permanent on Sept. 9.

Josh Fields (No. 27) is under Seattle’s control until one week before the 2009 draft and may sign with Seattle at any time between now and then.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

im4ball, so the fact that Sabathia was 6-8 with a 3.83 ERA in 18 starts before he was traded doesn’t, in your view, work against him at all in terms of Cy Young voting? I don’t understand the logic, frankly. It’s as if he gets a free pass because it happened in the other league (I’m sure there were a few interleague games in there, but I haven’t checked). But if he’d gone 6-8 with a 3.83 ERA for, say, Pittsburgh, then been traded to Milwaukee, we’d be looking at his overall numbers — 15-8, 2.82 ERA — and saying no way he should be above Webb (19-6, 3.19) OR Lincecum (15-3, 2.60) in the Cy Young voting.

In my view, if I’m voting for that award, I’m considering his overall numbers. He doesn’t just get a free pass for his nearly 4.00 ERA in 18 starts for Cleveland, regardless of how phenomenal he’s been since the trade….

I agree on Sons of Anarchy. Very strong debut. As for the use of that term, I’d suggest they’re trying to be realistic, and language far filthier would be the norm in that environment. Since they can’t use f-bombs (I’m assuming they can’t), they’re using a similarly crude term in its place. Personally, I’ve got zero problem with it. I want it to feel real, and those dudes would certainly, as I said, be using stronger language than that in real life.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Sniper—

Yeah, it’s been unpleasant. That’s why I don’t like to think about who will win the Division…To many bad thoughts is very bad for the mind, right?

Watching the Mets and Fillies does make me ill. And my condition has been long term…I was “diagnosed” in 2006.

By Lew

September 4, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

WTF is all of this crap going on with Wayne In Utah? Dude is usually one of the nicest people on the blog. He damn well is NOT a racist (not that I’ve seen in over three years, anyway) and is a decent guy-EVEN IF he’s a Clemson fan (ugh!!!! or is that Ugga-Go Dawgs?).

Who is this Conscience of the Blog person? Thought that was me and that I owned the blog (isn’t that what I’ve heard more times than can be counted whenever I give someone grief?). I never told Wayne to leave, so he’d better get his butt back here on a regular basis. What he has to say is not always insightful, nor at times, are posts by every other one of us here, but he DOES contribute in a more rational fashion than some of the others here-that’s for Damn sure.

I understand what he says about the anonymous nature of bloggers, too. It’s real easy for some of y’all to hide behind a name that is meaningless to all in the world except yourselves. It allows you, perhaps, to say much you wouldn’t say if you were accountable or if someone could tie the comments to your face. Try posting your real name and e mail address along with some of those nastier comments and we’ll see how long the sh!t keeps flying. Don’t have the guts, do you?

Now much is said about “Not owning the blog”. Well guess what? You sarcastic, nasty, foul; vulgar a*******es (certainly NOT everyone here, much less most of them) don’t own it either, though sometimes, YOUR sense of entitlement is monumental in the extreme. Apparently, the Schmucks can say whatever they want to say about players, Blogmasters or other bloggers, but just let someone call you on the carpet about it and all of a sudden, it’s “You don’t own the blog. We can say whatever we want.” Fine. Take that point of view, but if Wayne and I (or anyone else, for that matter) decides to call you on your boorish or vulgar manners, it is OUR right to do so, as well. Maybe y’all should keep that in mind, too.

Now Wayne-That being said. Why should Carroll, who has been doing frequently more road trips, with attendant travel ( not to mention having written numerous articles this week) be thrust into the role of moderator for petty Blogger disputes? Believe me, keeping control of this Zoo is an impossibility at the best of times. I have no idea how DOB and Carroll even deal with the likes of us on a daily basis. Bailing an individual blogger out of an argument is not in their job description. So, Wayne, Buddy, stick up for yourself and give them your own brand of hell when they turn it in your direction. Do so with full force and if they don’t like it, then give them some more. THAT’S how you deal with it-NOT expecting Carroll to smack their knuckles with a ruler like the Nun in The Blues Brothers. Just don’t leave because of it. Give them Hell. Wurlitzer winners don’t quit because an anonymous A******* says they should. They don’t deserve the satisfaction your leaving would bring them.

As for the crude, misogynistic comments. I, too am tempted to come to Carroll’s (and womankind in general’s) defense, but after giving it some thought, figured Carroll has succeeded as a Woman in a traditionally Men’s job-hence has got to be a pretty tough person, certainly NOT thin skinned. She’s probably heard worse and handled it without my help. She’s a strong person and an adult. If she needs my (or anyone else’s) help, she knows we’ll be there for her. She hasn’t asked for the help. I would be willing to bet she can take care of herself quite well. Nonetheless, some of the crap posted here is totally over the top, likely, as Wayne says, entitled by the anonymous nature of it all. Maybe it’s just time for some of the discontented masses to show some of the accountability they demand of Liberty Media and start acting human-or at least go find a hobby they can do all by themselves, where the only person they abuse is themselves. Maybe THEY should leave-NOT Wayne.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

somebody mention furcal over night. signing rafael furcal makes very little sense for the braves. the only way would be if he could be had for about 2/5 what he making this year.

By flange1

September 4, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

I agree that it will take a boat load of players and or prospects to get Cain or Greineke.

Here is one thought that I have been reading:

CC wants to play in SF. The Giants as they sit right now probably would not want to spend that kind of money without having better position players.

I also saw that Jayson Stark SUGGESTED that a Matt Cain for Prince Fielder deal made sense for both teams.

If he Giants get smart, they could sign CC and trade Cain for position players and have a DOMINANT pitching staff

By Lew

September 4, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

BTW-Our buddy Nathan (or N8 as the newer bloggers know him) just lost a close family member the other day. It may be a couple days before he returns and that will be with a heavy heart, I’m sure. I know he’s hurting, even though his blog personna may indicate someone who has a tough hide. Let’s send some positive thoughts and energy and perhaps a few prayers in his direction.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

By the way, I just saw an ESPN.com feature on Joe Torre and his contending Dodgers, and the teaser to the story called the Yankees “irrelevant” at present. You think the Yankees would like a do-over on the Torre decision from a year ago? Or does anyone think fiery Joe Girardi’s done a better job than Torre would have done? (And no, this question has NOTHING to do with current Braves situation. I really am just asking about the Yankees and that decision. Curious to get your opinions.)

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

DOB, excellent point.

Everyone knows my views on this: The award is for the NL so we should only take into account what pitcher have done in the NL.

But let’s concede for the sake of argument. that we should take into account what a pitcher has done over the entire 2008 season and we should give the award to the best major league pitcher in 2008 who pitched in the NL and not simply the pitcher who put up the best season in the NL.

Well, Sabathia ranks 7th in baseball in ERA. 9th in wins. 2nd in strikeouts. 2nd in innings. 3rd in Quality Starts. Among pitchers with at least 160 innings, he’s 7th in K/BB ratio. An impressive season, to be sure, but not quite the best pitcher of 2008.

By flange1

September 4, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Thought I would throw my 2 sense in on the Wayne in Utah battle that we have seen.

I understand that some of the “old timers” get a bit frustrated and PO’ed at some of the things said by the “new comers.” Heck, some of the new folk will say anything to get a reaction.

If someone wants to post racist, sexist, homophobic or any other type post that demeans people as a whole, I believe it is all of our duty to call them on it.

Leaving is not the way to go Wayne! Tell the folks what you think.

Some of the rest of us need to step up and do the same.

This forum has always been a place for folks to talk about Braves baseball and whatever else that was NON POLITICAL in nature that the group was interested in.

It used to be pie, ham sandwiches, BBQ, music and the man in Black.

Our pie/cake and ham sandwich folks have not been back in awhile, but it would be fun to speak of those things again.

Wayne, come on back and blog with us!

And Lew, by the way, nice post Mr blog conscience.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

when people decide to leave because of arguments or attacks they have recieved on this blog, i see it as a hissy fit.

so wayne, dont be a baby. come blog with us, buddy.

By War Horse

September 4, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

My thoughts go out to the blogger N8 and his family.

NYY are definitely irrelevant this year. Aint it grand!

By Renegator

September 4, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

DOB

It is most people’s assertion on this blog that the manager does not make a very large impact on the performance of the team over 162 (maybe a couple of wins or losses).

Therefore if you follow that logic - then the Yankees collapse and Torre leaving the same year is merely coincidence.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Neight—

Take care, man! I’ll pray for you and your family!

Flange1—

I concur!

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Aw, da poor Oakwand A’s have to pway five game in fwee days!

Oooo! The Braves played back-to-back doubleheaders two years ago (Sept. 2-3, 2006)! That’s four games in two days.

In other words, the A’s are basically playing 1.67 games a day, whereas the Braves played a solid two games a day!

OK…anyway, back to “reality”…I realize this was totally irrelevant.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Positives:

No Cubs, Fillies, OR Mets tonight! Whoo-hoo!

By Carroll Rogers

September 4, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

In all honesty, my focus the last six days was bringing you guys the news and answering your questions and no, not paying attention to all the insults being tossed back and forth on the blog. (even those directed at me!) Wayne, I sure hope you don’t go anywhere. I don’t want Gil going anywhere either…And Lew, thanks for having my back.

By flange1

September 4, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

DOB,

On your Yankees question, my opinion is that Torre could not have done much better than Joe G!

I think the Yankees are having the same sort of year the Braves are having, too many injuries and the need to start a rebuilding program. Seems to me both the Yankees and the Braves got caught with some old players and some real young players and need to retool a bit to regain their place in the AL East.

I think Cashman (or whoever is the Yankees GM this winter) is going to have a critical year just like FWren is going to have.

Both have a chance to contend in 2009, but both need to make quite a few moves to do so……

How is that for a non-answer?

By Lee in S GA

September 4, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Or does anyone think fiery Joe Girardi’s done a better job than Torre would have done?

Not that I am a fan of the Yankees because I am not, but they do have a better record than the Dodgers and would be leading and probably win the N.L. West division, if they were in it. The Yankees have also had a handful of injuries like the Braves this season. Girardi has done fine with the Yankees and I am not sure Torre would have carried them to a division crown this year either. No one saw the Rays coming out of the gate and to continue doing what they have done this season and I hope they keep winning up until the last game of the W.S.

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, the Yankees are still probably going to win around 86-87 games. That’s with Posada getting hurt, Cano and Melky Cabrera having an awful season, Jeter having a mediocre season, Matsui missing a lot of time, Pettite in decline and a team trying to rely on lots of young pitchers.

The Yankees haven’t had great pitching in a while, even when Torre was the manager. When they have injuries, sub par years from some key hitters and hitters in decline; it follows that they aren’t going to win 90+ games. But they still came pretty close. With the hype always surrounding the Yankees, especially giving their recent run of success and the money they spend, anything less that 95-100 wins isn’t acceptable to a lot of people, fair or not.

So, I don’t think you can put it all on Girardi or replacing Girardi with Torre unless you can convince me that he’s primarily responsible for the injuries, the down years, the declines and the reliance on young pitchers.

By J.D.

September 4, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

DOB- living here in Yankee country I watch the Bombers pretty much every night on YES. I often will turn down the volume because of Michael Kay and the stooges they have over there. Anyways, I think that team needed a change. I think letting Torre go was a smart move. Just by watching them at the end of last year, they seemed unmotivated. Girardi was the best choice. I question his motivating ability sometimes, even though most people think this is why he was hired. I think they would be in the same boat if they still had Torre. Counted too much on young talent, and it came back to bite them. Not to mention a certain 3B who has only 3 RBI’s in the 9th inning all year. Look at the money he makes, and look at the money Frenchy makes. Has he been bad this year? He sure has. However, if you look at the stats, you’d rather have him up to the plate in the 9th with the game on the line than A-Rod.

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Flange1, I agree with you on Torre/Girardi. And the comparision to Braves.

By Jeff R

September 4, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Think I would factor in the contribution that a pitcher is making to his team when considering a CY Young. Curious that there’s been no mention of Santana - that I can find. His wins aren’t up there, but he’s coming on strong. I believe he’s a huge factor in the Mets’ resurgence. If he closes strong, I wouldn’t count him out.

By Lew

September 4, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Carroll-Any time.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Lew—

I agree. Wayneis usually one of the nicest people on the blog, and he should stay. I threatened to leave once. People persuaded me to stay—and I’m very glad they did. Though I must say, at the time, I was a jerk.

It really felt good to stand up for my “cause”, so to speak—if I do say so myself, it’s been quite worth it so far!

So please: Wayne! Come back, Wayne!

By Jeff R

September 4, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

I think this edition of the Yankees are getting a little old and tired. I’m a Torre fan, but I don’t know if he’d squeeze anymore Ws out of the Yanks than Girardi. I’d rather be in L.A., anyway - better weather!

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

JD, you seriously want to put blame on A-Rod? Wow. I thought Yankees fans were supposed to be fairly sophisticated.

Albert Pujols has 3 RBI in the 9th inning this season. Berkman has 9. Milton Bradley has 1. Chipper has 4. Manny has 4.

Only Yankee fans would blame possibly the best player in the AL for their struggles.

It’s funny, when I look at the stats, no way do I want Francoeur at the plate in the 9th with the game on the line over Rodriguez. In fact, there aren’t a lot of guys I want up in that situation over Rodriguez.

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Jeff R, isn’t that what people do, factor in the contribution that a pitcher is making to his team? Or are you one of those who thinks we should punish or reward individual players for the performance of his teammates?

By BT

September 4, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

This season has been frustrating for everyone on the blog and yes the Braves. Some of the recent “stuff” has been juvenile and crass. Hopefully Wayne and others can just shake our heads and keep going. Thanks Lew and McFann for your great posts and hopefully Wayne want give up on the normally excellent Blog.

By Lew

September 4, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

McFann-You couldn’t leave-you’ve been adopted. Where else would the Turtle Talk and Nesting Bird discussions come from if not from you? I mean you’ve won a Wurlitzer and a McCann baseball. We invested in you. My bet is you’re a Growth Stock.

By Goodoleboy58

September 4, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

DOB-

I think it was time for Torre to leave NY. Girardi is going to have some growing pains, and in all honesty, the Yankees aren’t that good. They have alot of money invested in the team but their pitching staff leaves alot to be desired. I expect them to spend alot of money to correct that in the off season though and next year the pressure will really be on Joe G. If he fails to win, and win convincingly, then the axe could come down alot sooner then anyone expects.

By Jeff R

September 4, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I think one can make a good read of a club’s performance and have a good sense of what a pitcher has contributed. The Mets are resurgent, obviously. Santana’s game has picked up as the season has advanced. The Mets wouldn’t be leading the division without Santana. In any event, Santana’s numbers are strong, though he does lag in wins. But that may change through the close of the season. I think he deserves to be considered.

By Goodoleboy58

September 4, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

I see the tensions on the blog are at a season high… It’s a shame, come on folks this is the internet, and we are all here presumably for the same reason; which is we want an inside scoop on our favorite team. No need to get personal with anything.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

The Arod bashing has become nauseating. I personally think he is somewhat of of an empty numbers guy myself but he is also the greatest righthanded hitter in the history of the Yankees behind Joe D.

In New York, they always seem to blast the stars and the managers when the team goes bad. Look at the grief Reyes, Beltran, Santana and Wagner get. Look at the grief Patrick Ewing used to get. Look at the grief Phil Simms used to get or Kerry, Eli, Tiki, Shockey, Strahan.

The fault usually lies with the GM and the quality of the players he picks to surround the stars and manager with but, in NY, the stars and the manager get the grief as if they are supposed to carry any collection of scrubs on their backs to glory.

Mike Lupica has been ranting hard for the past two weeks against Arod, especially in comparison to David Wright. Lupica’s a big time opinion maker with the regular joe in NYC and so he influences people when he trashes Arod. Lupica seems so out of touch though with this.

What freaking difference is Arod supposed to make with the collection of crap he’s surrounded with? They are a terrible defensive team, not that good with the pitching, not that deep on the bench or in the upper levels of the minors and not an offensive juggernaut this season. How’s that Arod’s fault?

I never liked Arod but the bashing he gets all the time in NYC has turned me into a bit of an Arod fan. I never really thought that was possible for me.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

guys, if the yanks still had wang, and chamberlin, they might be right there battling the red sox for the wild card. they were dealt some heavy blows, and thier pitching is just mediocre.

im gonna guess stienbrenner makes sure that they get sabathia and sheets unless those guys just dont want to pitch in new york. im also gonna bet that their offense remains mostly unchanged.

i think they will resign abreu, and giambi for a couple more years.(im not sure they will get tex) one more solid hitter…a high average guy(maybe wilton bradley), and they will be good.

By Lew

September 4, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-Dude, I see your point (to an extent), but I would hardly consider the supporting cast the Yankees have bought in recent years a collection of scrubs that ARod has had to carry on his back. You might say that of Chipper this year, but ARod? No way. Besides-he plays in New York. When you sign a ridiculous Yankee contract )or Mets, for that matter), you should expect that some grief will be sent in your direction. For the obscene amount of $$$$ he and others make there, they can deal with it and get over it as they haul their respective wheelbarrows to the bank. I for one, am real tired of the whining.

By Thrillhouse44

September 4, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Name change: Braveheart —> Aheart.

I agree with your thoughts, Braveheart, and consider myself an A-Rod fan. But, dude made his own bed when he decided to return to NY. If I was an athlete or coach, NY would be the last place I’d want to play. (Of course they wouldn’t bash me because I’d be a scrub and not the star, but you get the drift.) I just don’t think the extra money is worth what A-Rod’s had to put up with.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Welcome to the Wayne in Utah Show! Yep that’s how far the braves have fallen this year. Nothing against you Wayne (good fan) especially the long(painful) arizona trip that we won’t forget.

DOB, The yankees about to miss playoffs for 1st time in like 13 years. So is it a coincidence? No way. They lost their leader. Remember how bad they were in 07 and somehow they charged back and won a playoff spot? Honestly, Few years ago i was worried about braves historic title streak to be in jeopardy (ended last year!) A 2nd year Joe Girardi is NO joe Torre!

Sniper69-I am rooting for phillies, cause your here!..I do have a hate towards phillies too..so i guess i don’t care unless i’m speaking to you.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

The bully Nats are ready to punk those AAA Braves tonight! Just kidding- I think. I feel all disgusting even saying that. Weird feeling. Just can’t complain too much though. Think how Kotchman feels. I’d be like one of us on a first place Braves team and suddenly we get traded to the A’s. Then his mom gets sick, all within a couple of weeks. Man, his head has gotta be spinning. I feel kinda sorry for him. Hopefully we’ll bounce back next year and he’ll see what being a Brave is all about!! Speaking of the Nats. What about a 95 mph heater logged in the ribs of E.Dukes tonight? THAT SMART A* IGNORANT PUNK!!!!

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Jeff R, I do agree with you that Santana should definitely be considered. But, as you probably know, I’m a firm believer that we shouldn’t punish or reward individual players (with regarding to giving or not giving them individual awards) based on their teammates’ performances.

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rogers, DOB—-

Any word on Yunel-Chipper?

THx..This has been an injury update blog

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Lew—

Thanks! Don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere!

I threatened to leave a while before I won the Wurlitzer—which I love, BTW. Thanks again for the Memorabilia. Glad I didn’t go through with leaving (for the reasons I just stated, and it’s a place where we cann talk about the Braves non-stop…with NO POLITICS! It’s like a dream come true…).

We invested in you. My bet is you’re a Growth Stock.

Haha…That could be…And it feels good to be “adopted”. I appreciate you all putting up with me!

: )

Haven’t seen the real McTurtle in quite some time, but we have Carolina Wrens everywhere! (I love those things so much!) We have some baby bluebirds, too.

BT—

You’re quite welcome. And thanks for the complement on my post.

Please return, Wayne!

N Nine—

Stay away from the Fillies! They…are…evil! ; )

By Shaun

September 4, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I’m not sure what you mean by “empty numbers guy” but I agree with your post. Silly to blame the best player on the team, possibly the best player in the league or the game, for the Yankees winning 86-87 games instead of 90+. Where would the Yankees be with an average thirdbaseman instead of Rodriguez.

Lew, I think A-Rod has handled the criticism quite well. He’s been pretty outstanding since he came to the Yankees.

We sort of understand why A-Rod gets bashed (he’s the star player that makes a lot of money and it’s New York). No one has said they do or don’t feel sorry for A-Rod or that we think he should be whining; that’s irrelevant to what we’re saying.

We are saying that he’s clearly not the reason the Yankees are going to fall short of 90+ wins this season.

By DAP

September 4, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

McFann i was just thinking earlier about how much youve changed since you first came here. you are much more mature, very informed, you contribute alot…im glad you stuck around.

i feel like i remember advising you when you first got here to not post for awhile. i said to just read and learn. you did. you learned alot about baseball and about this blog. now, you are a cult figure here. weve got people mimicking your name on almost every blog. youre a staple. glad you stuck with it.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I want to read about which of the three mentioned in CARROLL’s column/blog is gonna’ be a BRAVE next year.

By Kenneth

September 4, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I read where the braves are anxious to get back home. WHY? They are playing Washington and they have owned the braves so why are they anxious to get back home. I guess they are anxious to get the miserable season over with and so am I. They need a makeover starting with the general manager and go right down the list. If the braves have any pitchers any good in the minors they had better have arm or shoulder surgery before they come to Atlanta because they will need it after they get there. Just look at who has had arm surgery this year. I don’t guess they have a trainer. I can understand the relievers having problems but not the starters because Cox don’t let them stay in the game long enough. I cannot see the braves fielding a championship team in the next 5-8 years unless they spend millions of dollars getting players from somewhere else because they have given all the talent away in stupid one sided trades starting with the Kenny Lofton rental and all has been downhill from there. Look at Wainright and Marquis who the braves gave away for a bum called JD Drew who was a rental. They unloaded the farm for Tex for a one total year, not even a complete year and that was a bum trade. The other major league teams know the braves management are a bunch of suckers and they take advantage of it. One good thing now they don’t have any farm system to give away and that to me is good. Last place for the next 6-8 years should get good draft picks and we can only hope and pray they won’t give them away but they probably will.

By Goodoleboy58

September 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

I saw a stat the other day said that A-rod had grounded into 11 double plays in August… Ouch

By N Nine

September 4, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

aaaah much love and deserved love for MCFANN! You are one of the best! were all sure are emotional these days :)

Wayne get this over with and just come back!

By Goodoleboy58

September 4, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Saw this player note on Edgar:

Sep 3 SS Edgar Renteria returned to the starting lineup Tuesday after sitting out two games and went 3-for-4. Renteria led off the ninth with a single, stole second with two out but was forced at third to end the game. He also got outraced to an uncovered third base by a catcher, highlighting how his speed has diminished.

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DAP! I was reading a few of my earlier posts a while ago, and dang, no wonder y’all thought I was under 12!

very informed, you contribute alot

Glad to be of service! I really enjoy posting here.

That was good advice you gave me. It really did help. I didn’t have a whole lot of baseball “experience” so to speak when I first came—I had 2 1/2 years of true fandom, and was still learning. I learned a lot about the best team in the world from this blog. Getting the “inside scoop” really intrigued me.

youre a staple. glad you stuck with it.

Thank you. I’m really glad I stuck with it, too. Really enhanced my baseball knowledge/debating skills.

As for the people who mimic my name…well, they’re all just jealous!

; )

By David O'Brien

September 4, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG in the tube… arriving shortly … anticipate builds … OK, whatever.

By Braveheart

September 4, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

I threatened to leave a while before I won the Wurlitzer

Ah, yes, McFann, I remember that quite well and will take full credit for making the little girl man up and stick around. I saw the potential and I was right. McFann has been the rookie of the year on the blog - she should get another Wurlitzer for that. She’s a contender for blog MVP as well. That’s a tough fight though with too many contenders to even bother trying to name for fear of forgetting someone. Hopefully, next year, we can get you to talk about more than McCann. :-)

By McFann :Ô:

September 4, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Heh heh…Thanks. I appreciate the support. A tad bit embarrassed…I cann feel my face turning red…But I’m very honored by the kind words.

We have gotten emotional, haven’t we? We must be sad that the season’s coming to a close…I know I am. But the new season starts in what? 7 months? And we’ll have Spring Training before that! It’s not too far off!

; )

I am looking forward to some cooler weather, though.

By Brian

September 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Kenneth- It’s funny how you mentioned getting rid of FW when all you did was talk about trades JS made. Yeah, they were mistake trades but almost every GM has one or more of those. It’s REALLY stupid to judge this year as the doom of our future. No team would be any good in this teams situation. We have no farm system? Name us one other farm system that puts ours to shame?

By Ronald Millsaps

September 5, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

Shaun—Are you serious in your comments to me? Do you really believe what you typed?

Let’s deal with facts here: Tim Lincecum and Brandon Webb were the two frontrunners (and probably still are) for the Cy Young. For someone else (and it’s not Cole Hamels, either; he has had a down year compared to his standards and these other guys’) to step in and win the Cy Young, an amazing amount of production would have to take place.

Sabathia has done that—and he’s raising the bar to the next level. His low ERA and amount of complete games are astounding.

Yeah, your point was clear, but “clear” and “valid” aren’t synonyms.

“heads/roll”—I’m glad you don’t work for the Braves’ front office, after reading your comments.

By moneytalks

September 5, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

The Braves are not going to get Sabbathia or any other CY young/MVP caliber pitcher/player next year so stop dreaming. There are PLENTY of teams at there that can and will out bid the Braves for ever top notch free agent out there. Even with 50 million (ish) to throw out there. This team needs 2 front end rotation guys (Hudson isn’t going to be back until the All Star break)and 2 power hitting bats. These can either be in the IF or OF. If both of these don’t happen expect the Braves of new to look like the Braves of old for a while!!

Money talks and bu11$h*t walks.