Braves

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Ms. Rogers!

We’re down to 24 games left on the Braves season, and let’s hope it goes mercifully fast.

Fast? No, no! I can’t believe the season’s almost over! Didn’t it just start?

Good quote from Chipper about the “without Tex behind him, he gets no good pitches” thing. What Chipper said—that’s the way I feel, too. Thank you, Chipper.

Congrats to Maddux! That’s sweet! I hope he passes that……headache, Clemens.

That Eddie…You’re correct: Gotta love the guy!

OK……Second?

By Shaun

September 2, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Unlike your completely uninformed opinion, I actually saw Hampton pitch during spring training and I knew he would be back eventually. His arm was fine after his second surgery, the rest of his body has been the problem.

Four straight quality starts tells me everything I need to know.

What you saw and the quality starts didn’t mean anything to a team that would have had to trade players and pay Hampton for only a few starts. But I guess you’re smarter than all those teams, huh?

Regarding Maddux, I guess now the only question is does he get in to the Hall unanimously? I don’t know if any rational person would assume he used steroids.

By matt

September 2, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

At least the Braves will get a high draft pick in next year’s draft. They should have plenty of money to get some quality talent, close to $50 mil. Personally, I don’t know why you wouldn’t bring up Schaffer, Heyward, and others to get them some experience.

By brent a.

September 2, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

9-20 is not .450 ball.

It’s about .310.

Also, school began about a month ago.

Don’t have kids, do you, Ms. Rogers?

Thanks for the blog.

By semiballcoach

September 2, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

chipper is due to get hot again and albert is due to cool off

By hk

September 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

… current ‘MVP’ (Runs + HR’s + RBI’s) …

… projected year-end values …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/mvp08a.htm

… added chart indexed for times at bat …

By bruce

September 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I do not want the season to be over, I do want it to end better than it has been the last few weeks.

I watched Eddie Perez during batting practice on Saturday in Washington, after he had pitched his session of BP he was out by second base with a catcher’s mitt … on a line drive to his right he takes a couple of steps then does a complete flip diving for the ball and comes up with a huge smile and laughter but no ball…. a great example, having fun, hustling, enjoying baseball activities.

By Shaun

September 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

matt, the reasons they don’t bring up Schafer and Heyward and others is because of using up option years and major league service time, etc.

By hk

September 2, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

… chart of Bobby’s ejections through the years …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/cox.htm

… you can see when they tightened the strike zone, hurting pitchers like Glavine and Maddox, who always lived on the edges …

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Even though I want to move on to improving the team for next season, I’ll still miss the games once the season ends.

Hopefully by Christmas, the Braves will have made moves, and we’ll begin the countdown to ST as we do each Winter.

Until then, ugh!

By TBraveFan

September 2, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Thanks Carroll for the Eddie story - I totally love Eddie!! I think his humor is great!! Besides, what else do they have after management virtually gave up on them at the half way point?
This team hasn’t been the same since the Tex trade and although I can see the guys trying hard every game, it has to play on their psyche when a management that’s always believed in them - gives up and raises the white flag.
But nonetheless - I will be proudly sitting in my seat for the next 13 home games and glued to the tv for the remaining away games - cheering for my team, my guys - and then will turn a hopeful heart towards next season and make plans for March 2009 when life resumes anew…..

By jim

September 2, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

An even bigger reason for not bringing up Heyward and even Shafer is that they are not ready yet. Heyward has been in High A for about a week. Shafer missed 50 games of the season due to suspension — his first year in AA. Shafer might be ready next year after some time in winter ball and maybe a brief stint in AAA. Heyward won’t be up until mid 2010 at the earliest. It is a bit ironic that we complain that Francoeur’s struggles might be related to insufficient time in the minors and we have killed the Braves for rushing Devine to the Majors too soon, but now we get people yelling for the likes of Heyward — recently out of high school and with little more than year in professional baseball. If the Braves are going to recover and return to respectability, the fans need to have some patience and let the team rebuild in the correct way. There is no quick fix that will make us contenders next year, and if one is tried it will only delay the time before we do become respectable again.

By BravesFan79

September 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I refuse to believe this team cant make moves to stay around .500 ball the first half of the season next year, THEN inject a fresh Smoltz and Hudson and we have a good chance at making a strong run in the 2nd half!! As for now…wow Bobby Cox is making some GREAT moves towards getting that 5th or 6th draft pick!
First time ive not been dissapointed in his roster moves or bullpen moves in years.

By TURTSNAP

September 2, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I have to say it hasn’t been since 1990 that I have been so anxious for a season to end. Sad, sad, sad.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Bruce—

Haha! That’s a great story!

Love that Eddie!

By Einstein

September 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the fine article. Don’t you think it’s a shame that Chipper isn’t able to bat against Braves pitching? He would probably win the batting title hands down. How do you think Frenchy would do against Braves pitching? .240? .265? or maybe even .270? I understand that Bobby has decided this is his last year afterall…next year could be even worse.

By Not a Cox Fan

September 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Sunday was really a slow TV sports day.

All day and night on Saturday there was college football on TV which was great.

But on Sunday afternoon since the NFL regular season has not started and the Nascar race was being ran at 8:00 PM ET, I almost had to watch a Braves game.

Thank goodness that Women’s Beach Volleyball was on and I was saved from that torment.

By nolie

September 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Hurricanes Booo!

Looks like Ike Is headed toward the Florida straits for now with Josephine right behind. Both of them got strong enough to be named a long ways from here, they could build into powerful bastids. Man I hate this time of year. It’s bad enough with the Braves crappin’ out without having to play tag with mother nature’s temper tamtrums.

By The truth

September 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Has anyone brought up what Jair Jurrjens means to this team right now? What happens if he went down with a shoulder ailment that needed to be operated on? Would they still not sell shop? It is interesting. What if Jair, who has a shoulder history, went down with an injury that counted him out for 2009? Would they then decide to trade Jones and others? Probably not. They would just trade more prospects to fill the 2009 roster so that Bobby Cox can have one more go at a title.

By Threadkiller

September 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

How about we have a real discusion about next year! We will not get CC or Sheets so what should the Braves management do? I think we need 2 starting pitchers and a left fielder. Anderson should be our center fielder. Do we go after Derek Lowe and Jon Garland? I don’t think we would have enought trade pieces to get a front line starter.What would be everyones take on who we would have a legit chance of aquiring? I almost think we would have to go after Dunn..

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

brent a, thanks for pointing out my brain fade. i’ll get that fixed….and no, no kids. not sure how i’d be doing the job i do if i had kids…but yeah, still locked into the old way of thinking that real life starts after labor day. doesn’t it?

well said jim, with your 12:54 post.

and bruce, i can totally see eddie doing that. thanks for the anecdote.

so any of you guys buy a lottery ticket in mableton the other day? go get your money! and by all means, share!

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Everyone that is clamoring for us to lose and get a top 5 pick you do realize that if that player is represented by Boras we’d probably steer clear of him anyway… Have you seen the havoc Boras reeked on the recent signings… Ridiculous..

By Eware

September 2, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog, Carroll. But, you might want to redo that math. .490 is a bad enough number, but its actually worse…

Ugh, is it spring training yet?

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

the truth

Why stop there… What if all of our starters and relievers have surgery what would we do then?

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

I love how people pretend to know who the Braves will not sign. “The Braves will never ….” Well how do y’all know this?

The Braves have money to spend, enough for at least one big-ticket free agent with enough left over to address other needs.

We know the Braves offered Tex a contract, presumably one larger than the one offered by the Rangers. So at the very least they were willing to spend $140 million on him. That is more than Santana is making.

So if they offered one player at least $140 million, what prevents them from offering a similar contract to another?

The Braves can certainly be players in the Sabathia sweepstakes or anyone else.

By nate

September 2, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

So, I’ve been thinking about the Brave’s needs and this 50 million they have to spend. Now, I know that the Braves aren’t likely to be big players in the free agent market, but even acquiring players through trades you really can’t expect to pay much less than market value. And you can forget about this “We’ll trade three bums for an all-star,” business because it ain’t happening. So with that in mind if they spend 30 million a year to get two starting pitchers (a #1 and a #3) they’ve only got 20 million left to sign an outfielder and a middle reliever, and that’s not counting re-signing Glavine, Smoltz, or Hampton. Plus there is no money there to upgrade at second or first.

All that means that the Braves are stuck with KJ, Frenchy, and Kotchman.

There just is no way to compete with the big boys next year. I hope Wren realizes this and starts building for about 2012 rather than trying to make another run with this group of underachievers.

By David

September 2, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Hey Carroll,

Love the blog as always. One question? Whay hasn’t their been any articles from DOB or anyone for that matter as to the fact that in 15 years of drafts 1993-2008, the Braves have NO starters that have really made an impact on this team, no Aces, nothing. I understand they have traded a few (Wainright, Jason Schmidt, and even Marquis was marginal at best) but when you think about how many pitchers they have drafted over a 15 year period and have nothing to show for it but a bunch of mediocre pitchers (Horacio, Odalis, Marquis…on and on)….that is abysmal. In my opinion, it is the most prominent reason why this franchise has gone downhill. You have to develop pitchers, especially when budget is an issue.

By Ed Glennon

September 2, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Little Known Fact: DeSalvo and Dessens have something in common with Greg Maddux - all of them have a 31 after their names. Greg’s number is on his back and their numbers are their ERA’s.

By katz

September 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness that Women’s Beach Volleyball was on and I was saved from that torment.

Oh, yeah, I love watching beach volleyball because I get to stare at the booty of the wife of Matt Treanor. And it is a glorious bootay. Misty May got back baby………..

By DAP

September 2, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

to anybody on the blog that has been saying that the braves should trade away big pieces (chipper, ect) and build to win in 2011….what do you guys suggest we do with $30mil or more we will have this offseason? just not spend it? how are we gonna spend all that money and not be ready until 2011?

no. waiting a few years to try to compete doesnt make ANY sense for this team right now. the braves will spend thier money, and try to build a contending team for 2009.

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

David

Ever since the Maddux arbitration came back to bite us I think we lost a huge competitive edge when we were afraid to offer arbitration to our Type A free-agents that followed him. I think we are still making up for those blunders.

By Lew

September 2, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

David-Let’s go over this yet again. From 1991 until 2005, a.We had high draft picks because we were winning and b. Why draft pitchers when you have Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux for over a decade together (not to mention Avery, Millwood, Neagle, Ortiz and the band of scrap heapers Leo fixed for a year or two, etc)? Seems to me that if you have a position covered for over ten years (see Chipper, also), it is stupid to waste top draft picks to fill what has already been filled.

However, if you go and look at the drafts from the last several years, you would see that good pitching (Hansen, Medlin, Teheran, Evarts, Harrison, Beau Jones, etc) HAVE been drafted.

By Bobby's Cox

September 2, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

N8

N8 Are you there?

I’m calling you out N8

You put on an absolute clinic yesterday in the last blog. I’m sorry I missed it. What you said about Prado & KJ is what I’ve been telling all of you ALL Year, that he’s a better Hitter.

Your stats put any other argument to shame. Props to you man, and to nirtram odarp (who came up with that, it’s genius) for proving his worth after finally getting a long-awaited and well-deserved chance to prove himself.

By Threadkiller

September 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Kirk; The Yankees have clearly said multiple media sources that they want CC and Sheets. Do you honestly think the Braves will out bid the Yankees? I’m sure Boston would be in on the bidding as well! What do you think the Yankees will offer? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 20-25 mill per. So will the Braves pay that kind of money for one player in CC? I think the Braves would pay 25 mil for 2 starters not 1!

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Could someone in a position of “know-how” actually state how much salary the Braves will be committed to next year.

I hear 50 million and 30 million bandied about. There is a HUGE difference between those two numbers.

Do we count losing 8 million for Hampton, or 14 million? We owe many raises through arbitration and such. Also, if we resign either Smoltz, Glavine or Hampton, then we must deduct that salary from the total to spend.

Personally, I think it will be closer to 30 million.

Facts please!

By Shaun

September 2, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

David, I’ve brought it up before here: How many teams over the last 15 years have drafted starters that have made an impact more than Braves starters drafted over the last 15 years?

There is probably a relatively easy way to look at this question (number of times a pitcher that a team drafted finished in the top 5-10 in Cy Young voting, something like that).

I don’t dispute that there are teams that have done a better job drafting and developing starters than the Braves in recent years. But I would guess there are fewer than you think.

In fact I’d guess there are a relative few starting pitchers drafted since 1993. (Although it depends on how you define impact. I’d say someone that has/had a decent shot at a Cy Young for three or four years if he were on a good team.)

Looking at BaseballReference.com’s top 50 list of active leaders in ERA+ (minimum 1000 IP, 100 decisions), here are the ones drafted (or signed as an amateur free agent) 1993 or after:

Webb, Santana, Oswalt, Halladay, Zambrano, Hudson, Peavy, Buehrle, Sabathia, Kerry Wood, Lackey, Sheets, Beckett, Zito, Carpenter, Colon, Freddy Garcia, Orlando Hernandez (though he was 32 when he signed because of political circumstances), Burnett, Millwood, Jarrod Washburn, Dontrelle Willis, Bronson Arroyo, Matt Morris, Mulder, Brad Penny, Doug Davis, and Javier Vazquez.

It’s a stretch to call some of those guys impact starters but those are the top 50 in ERA+ drafted in 1993 or after. That’s, what, about 20 impact pitchers in all of baseball?

By Ted

September 2, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

What’s the Braves record since that ridiculous Chick-Fil-A Cow went up?

By Lew

September 2, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Facts-Smoltz $11 mil, Glavine $8 mil, Hampton $8 mil, Teixeira $12.5 mil, Kotsay $2 mil-Total, $41.5 million.

Liberty Media, through Prsident Terry McGuirk, claims payroll will be boosted, as well. Be that as it may, there is still over $40 mil coming off of the books.

As for resigning Smoltz, Glavine or Hampton- Smoltz and Glavine have both stated publically that they are not certain as to whether or not they will be ABLE to return next year. If they do, they will (also by their own admission) not receive anywhere near the salaries they had this year.

As for Hampton-If he continues his better pitching throughout the month, you can count on another team offering him more money than we would be comfortable with. Take it to the bank. If he does remain in Atlanta, it will be for quite a bit less $$$$$.

Them’s the facts.

By Brian

September 2, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Alot of you people will find something to complain about no matter what! If we sign CC- What about other needs?If we get Lowe a big bat and a releiver- That’s not enough, we can’t compete with that lineup. Damn if you do Damn if you don’t. The Braves will be alright-I HOPE

By Kentavo

September 2, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

True, this team has really blown chunks this year and it’s hard to compete with your pitching staff keeping Dr. James Andrews in business. But I contend with better managing by Cox, the team could be at around .500 or just above.

His mind numbing use of pitchers and insane batting orders have completely destroyed the season.

How about a rule? If you’re a reliever and you come into the game and walk the first batter you face, you’re immediately pulled.

Would that work?

Couldn’t be worse than what’s happening on the field.

Another rule: If Jeff Bennett gets thru an inning unscathed, have him leave on a high note.

Another rule: Don’t use Gonzalez except for save situations. This would appear to be obvious, but perhaps one our statheads out there can back me up.

Another rule: Don’t wait ‘til after the damage has been done to remove the pitcher = fire a pre=emptive strike and get ‘em out of there. (Does it really matter that the pitcher’s batting spot is coming up in the next half of the inning at this point?)

Another rule: Unless there is an injury, Chipper and McCann cannot be out of the lineup in the same game.

By Billy

September 2, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

If Chipper retires or Mac is traded we will need new rules.

By spotts

September 2, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Is there any hope for the ‘09 Braves, or should I set my expectations low so as to not disappoint myself? There’s no way I could root for any other team, but after high expectations this year, I’ve been quite let down.

What are the odds of signing Sheets, Sabathia, and/or Dunn? Will prospects **Hanson and Schafer be ready and able to contribute significantly?

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Yours of 2:18 p.m. today. THANK YOU. Couldn’t have expressed the points better myself.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

DAP

to anybody on the blog that has been saying that the braves should trade away big pieces (chipper, ect) and build to win in 2011….what do you guys suggest we do with $30mil or more we will have this offseason? just not spend it?

I’ll tell you what needs to be done with any monies not spent on a player that is in our future plans. Reinvest it back into the farm system, hire more scouts to replace those phased out the last few years, make sure we don’t draft people we can’t sign. Have a goal to be the best farm system and it will repay you at the major league level.

How’s that instead of an afterthought free agent or two?

By DAP

September 2, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

kentavo Don’t use Gonzalez except for save situations. This would appear to be obvious,

i think i know what you mean…dont use him in blowouts. but, i have to say that only using him in “save situations” is a waste of an extremly good reliever. he should be used when he is needed in a big spot, no matter when in the game it is.

have you read the article about saves ruining baseball? i dont have it right off hand, but the writer points out that in the history of baseball, the team with the lead going into the 9th inning wins over 90% of the time. even in save situations, and even before the “closer” title was invented. the point is, the closer is the most overrated position in baseball, because they have (statistically) one of the easiest jobs on the team.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Too many walks. A clear sign of poor pitching. COX is not soft in the head. He just can’t get people he plugs in to perform. Is that the fault of the pitching coach.? I certainly don’t know and unless you are a clubhouse member, I don’t think anyone else does either.

And nobody’s talking. Employment’s down right now and the pay’s good. I do happen to like the pitching coach here in RICHMOND, GUY HANSEN. I believe he’s got what it takes to be successful in ATLANTA. A few players he’s privately coached have floated around the leagues my oldest grandson plays in. The word gets around, you know.? Anybody got rumors on McDOWELL.?

By Brian

September 2, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Alright everybody, see how long it takes for those guys to get back on here debating on whether KJ or Prado should be in the lineup next year. OH MY GOD, if I have to see one more career stat from either one of those two, I’m gonna have a stroke. PLEASE,ENOUGH!!!

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

DAP

I think what kentavo was saying is that Gonzo is not a very good pitcher when the game isn’t on the line… It’s that way with alot of relievers most notably probably Billy Wagner…. Gonzo just hasn’t had good outings in garbage time or non-save situations.

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

DAP, excellent post at 3:55. Couldn’t agree more.

By DAP

September 2, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

spotts honestly, i dont think we have a shot at sheet, sabathia, or dunn. i think the best we can hope for are some solid signings, and shrewed trades. my goal is just for the team to be better. (which wont be that hard at this point)

but some solid pitching…i would take 2 #3’s at this point, and good bats, and this team is a surprising rookie and some returns to the norm for certian players from being right there.

lets say that the braves can hang onto ohman, sign jon garland and ryan dempster, casey blake, and juan cruz?

they would have a middle of the road rotation: jurjens, dempster, garland, morton, campillo/reyes

a very good bullpen: gonzalez, soriano, moylan, cruz, ohman, boyer, carlyle

and a solid lineup 1. shafer (surprising rookie) 2. escobar 3. chipper 4. blake (solid bat) 5. mccann 6. frenchy (return to norm) 7. kotchman 8. kelly(return to norm, or prado)

and if you hang onto a good bench like the brave shave with prado, infante, norton and sammons, were in good shape.

that is a very solid team, i think. would they contend? i think they would. would they win? we’d have to play the games to see.

By DAP

September 2, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

keylargo I’ll tell you what needs to be done with any monies not spent on a player that is in our future plans. Reinvest it back into the farm system,

in other words, cut payrole over $30mil, and spend over $30mil extra this year on the farm system? really?

all i can say is: dude……..

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox nirtram odarp (who came up with that, it’s genius)

That would be Will Ohman, when he introduced the Braves’ lineup before a FOX game on 7/26/08. The Braves lost to the Fillies 10-9 to kick-off the worst weekend of the season (that’s not counting Friday, of course).

Uh…But anyway, it’s Will Ohman’s Harry Caray. Give it a watch—it’s HILARIOUS!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Re: R-Braves final game

I wasnt able to log on last night, but I thought some of you may find a recap of the final Richmond Braves game to be of interest.

There was most definately a mixed bag of emotions, crossing between anger and resentment at the current administration in Richmond for allowing this to happen, along with sadness and nostalgia. To be sure, it was certainly a very werid feeling being in the ballpark yesterday for the final time to cheer for our AAA Braves.

As Carroll mentioned yesterday, several former Braves were on hand, although David Justice wasnt able to make it due to what the local paper termed a “family illness”. Yet Javy, Murphy, Ralph Garr and others made the trip for the sendoff, which meant a lot to us fans.

Quick story on Javy from yesterday: Many of us fans were disappointed to get to the ballpark and find out that the all time greats were not signing autographs. I’d brought pictures, balls, and other items in hopes of obtaining a few ‘graphs. However, the R-Braves manaagement, in their infinate wisdom, instead had the players pre-sign a few items and then held a silent auction for these items on the concourse throught the game. (Terrible decision by Richmond). In any event, before the game, as Javy drove in a fan approached Javy for an autograph, and Javy began to sign. An R Braves rep approached Lopez and told him that he could not continue to sign. Javy turned to the PR rep and told her something along the lines of, “I’m sorry but I’m going to continue signing for these few fans right here”, and so he signed for those in his presence before decending into the underground stadium players parking lot. I thought that said a lot about Javy, and I was thoroughly impressed.

Richmond players tossed all of their equipment and anything else on hand into the crowd after the game. Even the legends got into the act, finding whatever they could to toss into the crowd and reward the fans for their loyal support.

We’ll miss our Richmond Braves. There’s no denying the Diamond is an absolute dump, and the customer service and management of the facility is not much better. Our Mayor has run the Braves out of town. And yet with all of that said, the sadness in the ballpark after the final out yesterday was palpable. Folks stood around for 45 minutes after that last out was caught…almost as if not knowing what to do or where to go now that its over. An historical day for the city of Richmond, for minor league baseball, and for the Braves franchise. And certainly a very sad one, and one that I’ll never ever forget as long as I live.

By DAP

September 2, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

brian

martin prado career hit by pitch ratio: once every 277 ABs

kelly johnson career hit by pitch ratio: once every 207 ABs.

my point: prado gets hit less so hes more of a wuss.

By Lew

September 2, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

RichBrave-Thanks.

Now, Staff Aces-In my estimation, a top flight pitcher-a true stud or Ace-will win you 15 games or more per season. For what is now considered a typical Ace’s salary of around $18-25 million per year, I don’t think that’s too much to expect.

I just researched 15 game winners since 2003. I figured this would be a decent enough interval. It may not include some like Lincecum or Hamels, who MAY turn into studs, but haven’t yet. I also excluded non- active pitchers like Clemens.

It may surprise many Denizens, but there were only 17 ML pitchers (still active) who won 15 or more twice in that time frame (an average of once every four years).

There were 7 pitchers (CC, Webb, Beckett, Oswalt, Mulder, Randy Johnson and Carlos Zambrano), who won 15 or more three times (an average of a bit more than every three years).

There were only TWO active pitchers who won 15 or more 4 times in that stretch ( an average of every other year), Johan Santana and Roy Halladay.

What that tells me is that (at best) there is no more than one ACE for every two teams currently pitching in MLB. So much for not developing Aces. Doesn’t look like many teams are. This list may be incomplete (I could have missed someone), oes not take into account that the prevalence of relief pitchers makes wins for starters harder to come by and may also be a tad skewed in it’s parameters (it sure ain’t scientific), but I think it makes my point, scary though it may be.

By DAP

September 2, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

by the way brian craig biggio hit by pitch ratio: once every 44 ABs. what a man.

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Most beaten down topic this week:

Palin’s daughter’s pregnancy?

or

KJ/Prado

By Lew

September 2, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Excuse me- Winning 15 twice in that span is once every three years, winning 15, 3 times, every other year and four times is about two thirds of the time. Never was great at math. Still proves there aren’t many out there winning that many.

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond

Good story about Javy… I loved that guy

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

CARROLL ROGERS:

I want to bring up a point about the comparative records in 1990 and 2008. They may be EXACTLY the same, but I believe they are world’s apart.

There was an employee of mine who planned moving with her family to ATLANTA in 1991. We were discussing some of the recreational opportunities for her two children. She was quite circumspect regarding the BRAVES as they were constant losers and being watched by her 16 year old son on TBS.

I immediately jumped to their defense as I noted the AUGUST 1990 resurrection of the team. In fact, I predicted that ATLANTA would win the WORLD SERIES in 1991. That’s how sure I was of their impending great prowess.

I would not say that now even if the records were IDENTICAL. This team has the opposite “feel” to it. The defense is full of holes and until the next GLAVINE and SMOLTZ are onboard that sense of impending success won’t exist.

I do think JUIRJENS and MORTON are two great first steps, and I would put MORTON in GLAVINE’s class without having to be “given” an expanded strike zone. The young man’s gonna’ be a solid #3 for six or seven years barring injury. JUIRJENS a #2 barring injury.

Hampton can be a solid #3 or #4 next year, but I’m with LEW. Once burned, twice a fool. Another team’s gonna’ pay more than we are willing to risk given all the injury history we’ve experienced together.

See GLAVINE never burned us, just the METS. So we had to give him a shot. And if he says he can do a job for us in ‘09 I think management will let him. I would not. Now SMOLTZ yes. I trust his judgement.

On the offensive side of the game, I know a #2 hitter like RENTARIA is essential. He made the #1 and #3 hitters more effective and everything else fell into place once TEIXEIRA was on board. So that slot has to be filled by a monster offensive player. Anyway too many questions and obvious holes to warrent that WORLD SERIES feeling in ‘09. 2010 maybe.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

DAP—

Your 4:23 was very funny!

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

LEW:

C.C. SABATHIA is the man in my book. But that’s all I know. It’s up to BRAVES management to find the next JOHN SMOLTZ and trade the current DOYLE ALEXANDER for him. Has that trade already gone off.? SMOLTZ came from the TIGERS. MAYBE. Depends on the arm strength of JAIR JUIRJENS.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Just to clarify, DAP’s post wasn’t funny in the sense that he wants to give Brian a stroke (my dad’s mother died of a stroke last year), it was the “wuss” line that got me.

Just want to make it clear that I don’t approve of the killing of other bloggers.

; >

By Threadkiller

September 2, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

I have a funny feeling that Bobby Cox will do everything he can to have management re-sign Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton. I think Bobby’s loyalty clouds his judgement! So next years starters could be Glavine, Hampton, JJ, JoJo and a FA. Smoltz will move back to the pen. Who to go after next?

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

richbrave

I like the JA, Blanco 1/2 punch… JA can get on base.. .Steal 2nd.. Blanco can bunt get him to third and make it tough on the fielder to get him out at the same time.

By Brian

September 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Just got back from the hospital- said it was just a mild stroke do to stat related trauma. Whatever that meant. Must have seen it before.

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Lew: Thank you for your response to my question about salary coming off the books. I had a fair idea, but I kept seeing others stating 50 million, which I thought was a tad bit too high.

While I am not as knowledgeable about the Braves as many on this blog, I think we need to add for some contracts that are going up next year: Gonzalez, McCann, Soriano, and others who are due for raises or arbitration hearings.

I suspect this would count for close to 10 million in raises?

Who do we have who are free agents, besides the obvious Wil Ohman? Matt Diaz maybe?

Also, if Chipper Jones gets his contract renegotiated, that could mean a decent raise for him.

I think many on this blog are going to be disappointed in the actual amount of additional payroll that is available for new players via trades or free agency.

Agree/disagree?

By katz

September 2, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

starters get married to women like this:

http://www.velcroblog.com/images/braves07/scootergf.jpg

until nitmar odarp starts getting that kind of tail, he ain’t ever going to leave the bench

By gayle

September 2, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Threadkiller you rock - loved your post about Bobby in TM’s blog but caught it after it closed.

Since there seems to be alot of free time to examine things past - now that even Lemke would have to admit that the Braves are out of it - I’m curious about all the players that the Braves gave up to fill the closer role after Smoltz told the Braves “start me or I go elsewhere”.

There was quite a long list of “closers” that were brought in - and to this day, none have succeeded.

For those who might say that Smoltz was asked to start? Absolutely not true! He wanted to return to the rotation and made it clear that if the Braves would not accommodate him, he would go elsewhere.

I’m curious if the Braves fall (more like a plummet) would have been quite so severe if Smoltzie, Mr. Team Player, had done what was best for the team and stayed in the bullpen. He might still be pitching right now instead of working on his short game around the greens.

By bravelee

September 2, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

I see the Falcons are giving a $10 off discount for their opening game. Think the Braves, with the millions they saved this year by dumping salary, would slash prices for September games, or maybe 2009 to try to bring us back? No way. Corporate greed by Liberty—McGuirk has no clue and is just a figurehead, and Wren is a close 2nd. Get rid of the whole group!

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Personally, I would make an effort to sign CC Sabathia. I don’t think it will work though. I hope our management team exercises a small measure of restraint, as pitchers too many times do not return value on their contracts.

I think the best route to improve out pitching is via the trade route. Obviously the better the pitcher, the better the package. Peavy, Halladay, and several others similar pitchers have been rumored to be availalbe. Short of being able to pull of one of those trades, how about going for someone with a little less history, but with some potential “Ace” upside (I am open as to whom this would be).

So if we are able to get an ace, or someone capable of leading the staff for 4-5 years via trade or free agency, then I would pursue a strong hitter. Either a left fielder or a first baseman.

Is it time to start talking about moving Chipper Jones to first base? (will it ever be?)

Would Adam Dunn be a suitable first baseman? If so, then do we have enough confidence in our current outfield pool to provide enough pop for the lineup?

I can see Kotchman as being a potential trading piece to help secure an ace type starter.

By Kim

September 2, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Lew -

I received the print this morning! I plan to frame it to hang with our other Braves memorabilia.

Thanks so much for sharing your talent. It truly is a great tribute to Skip, and my family will cherish it.

By Lennie G

September 2, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Talking about payroll, with Hudson expected to be out for the majority if not all of next season, will insurance be picking up some of that tab? If so, that might be a few extra coins to apply to next years’ payroll. Just wonderin’….

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

bravelee

Stubhub has Braves tickets for $1

I don’t think slashing the price of the ticket is going to help much.

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

Jo-Jo Reyes left the team for Atlanta and the birth of his first child….He’s scheduled to start Thursday’s game vs. the Nats in Atlanta. That is still on.

Bobby said “we’ll see” on how he’s going to use Parr but he leaves open the possibility of starting him a time or two, perhaps with the upcoming off days giving him some flexibility - Sept. 8 and Sept 15

By THB

September 2, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

What about Erik Bedard? With the season he’s had, he wouldn’t command all that much. And he’s what, 28? I mean, he’s not an ace, but an awesome #2. I think he does have an injury history though…that might not work. What do you think about acquiring him if he came for a lot less than a Peavy or Halladay?

Personally, I would look into some players like Jaime Garcia of the Cardinals. Pitchers with great K/BB ratio and groundout ratio who have dominated the minors, are young, and some MLB experience. Sounds like Jurrjens, doesn’t it? They would probably want Kelly to plug in at second. We could offer Kelly for Garcia and a lower prospect.

By Threadkiller

September 2, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Gayle Thank You..I like some of the names being thrown out here. I love Halladay and Peavy. The problem is that we can only aquire those guys in a trade. We do not have the pieces in place to make a deal I think. It would be nice. We need to go after Derek Lowe I think. Bobby needs to let Glavine go.

By TheCutMan

September 2, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

I want to say that ANYone posting in this forum, or recent forums, is a Brave’s diehard fan and should be accorded all due respect.

To me, this is the free season to voice any and all views as to what has happened in 2008 and what needs doing in 2009 and beyond. And it should be without any negative drama lowered by other posters or journalists.

Folks, this stuff (Braves W-L record) isn’t working and the fandom needs answers, realistic answers/input and not blue sky. (That’s a clue advisory).

By Brian

September 2, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Remember when talking about trades, like someone has mentioned, it’s pretty clear that Cox has a strong voice in that. But with some money to spend I think he’ll do what it takes to erase his image from this year.

By TommyP

September 2, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

This offseason trade talk usually takes place….in the offseason. Very weird to be entertaining trade/FA ideas in August/start of September.

I’m going to wait ‘til the regular season to bandy about my ideas. So much can happen over the next month. Some guys getting a serious look now can make a vet expendable.

If we do have that $40+ million to spend, I hope it’s not on just 2 players. Make one big time pitching signing and then get several solid players to fill holes.

There’s something to be said about how Florida keeps competing with minuscule payrolls.

I’m not saying to go that route but you can find quality players without breaking the bank.

Am I right in saying that the blog’s overwhelming consensus is that Kelly is our main trading piece? Who else? Kotchman? Blanco? Frenchy?

Just trying to get a pulse of what everyone thinks.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

CONGRATULATIONS, Ho-Ho—I mean, Jo-Jo!!!

By Jeff R

September 2, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Why should fans accept the spin that the Braves don’t have the money to sign better caliber players? No, the team will never command the budgets that the Yankees enjoy or the Mets or Dodgers or Angels, but Liberty Media can do more to bring up the Braves payroll. $120 million range is not unreasonable.

It’ll will be intereting to see if the budget increase that management gets from Liberty Media is essentially a rate-of-inflation bump or a real improvement in budget that permits Wren to shop for more than #3 or #4 quality starters and second tier bats.

Atlanta’s not some middle market city, or the Marlins, which have to rebuild every six years. The Braves’ payroll needs to better reflect that fact.

Can the Yanks out bid the Braves for Sabathia? Sure. Should the Braves not make a play for him? They should make a play. Mangement needs to be aggressive in restructing the roster. Wren should have the latitude to put a competitive offer on the table. At that point, it’s up to Sabathia… or whoever else is worth the bucks.

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Chipper tweaked is right knee during batting practice and was just scratched from the lineup. I’m not sure the severity of it yet. will update will more information

By DAP

September 2, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

sorry, brian. i didnt believe you when you said youd have a stroke. i will take you more seriously next time. i hope you recover quickly!

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the news Ms. Rogers.

Ooooohhh………CRUD!!

By Goodoleboy58

September 2, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

bravelee

Stubhub has Braves tickets for $1

I don’t think slashing the price of the ticket is going to help much.

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 2, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Just watched the 95 World Series video and I noticed that Bobby Cox seemed a lot looser then. HE ACTUALLY IS CAUGHT ON FILM SMILING AND SHOWING EMOTION IN THE DUGOUT!!!!

Chipper also showed a lot more emotion then. I know he was rookie but nice to see him throw the fist up in the air on a homer instead of the cocky trot he does now. That was 13 years ago and watching seemed like it was 50 years ago. Maybe Cox should bring back that giant pimp glasses he wore back then. Maybe thats whats missing.

Really whats missing is the team having fun. Those teams from the 90s were having fun. I dont think Cox is having fun anymore but afraid to walk away because this game is all he knows. Although it took a video from 1995 - I did smile again today watching the Braves play. Ted Turner where the heck are you man?

By Interested Observer

September 2, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Get moving, Marlins! Tens of people are waiting for the game to start!!

By Brian

September 2, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Chipper has to be faking some of these injuries. But he’s smart. See, he does this to send a message to Cox and Wren that you better get some hitters and don’t just depend on me and McCann to carry this team. Pretty smart.

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

first major league homer for anderson

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

No More Bobby

Based on your handle alone, I must admit I couldnt disagree with you more. The Braves wouldnt have been anything close to what they were for 15 years without Bobby at the helm. But that won’t change your mind, I know…

Anyway…it does, however, remind me of a point I was sharing with a fellow Braves fan the other day. Anyone else notice that Bobby hasnt gotten tossed in quite awhile? I havent seen him worked up in quite a while. I’m just wondering if perhaps all this losing is getting to him and wearing him down…slowly dwindling some of his passions and fires for the game. Just seems like a different Bobby to me. I hope this year doesnt take a big enough toll on him where he’ll decide its not worth coming back next year…

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Also No more bobby

If you think Bobby hasnt shown emotion in the dugout over the last 13 years since 95….I have zero idea as to what in the heck you’ve been watching. He’s been more subdued since June of this year, for sure..and to my point. But if you really think its been 13 years since BC’s gotten fired up, you must have been in a coma.

By DonCoburleone

September 2, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Yep, looks like Chipper has conceded the batting title to the Pujols… Just sit out the rest of the year Chip, make sure you are healthy for ‘09.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

What’s going on? A double steal with McCann bringing up the rear?!

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

mcfann. that would be stolen base No. 5 for mccann on the back end of a double steal…..oh my

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Hey, Bruce—

There’s stolen base #5!! Just gotta get 7 more homers and 6 more doubles…

By Son of a Goo?

September 2, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

Jo-Jo Reyes left the team for Atlanta and the birth of his first child

Ahhh, how cute! GOOchie GOOchie GOO.

By N Nine( I love tavarez)

September 2, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rogers

How many more AB does chipper need to qualify for BA title?

By Hit, Heap, Hit

September 2, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Congrats to Oh No and his wife/girlfriend/whatever.

By bfan54

September 2, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

Kirknga;

Where did you get that “we offered Texiera a contract”. Historically the Braves have not discussed their contractual, financial, trade, etc, dealings with players. I didn’t read anything about it here, and if DOB or CR heard it on qt, they would not have reported as fact - simply because it would not have been confirmed. Neither Tex nor his agent went public. Did I miss something - I am 6 hours behind on this blog, if the matter has been clarified…but, still, where’d you get this info?

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

Whoa! Nice diving catch!

Hey! What the—? Two steals? Darn it, Ramirez!

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Wow, nice catch by McCann on the bunt in foul territory.

However, looks like Fredi is exposing McCann’s paltry arm. Hanley already stole twice in the same inning!

By Enquiring Minds

September 2, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Rumor has it:

Mike Hampton is 5 months PREGNANT.

“Pectoral injury” was a smokescreen.

Bobby Cox rumored to be the babby daddy.

Hampton will keep baby, not marry Bobby.

Cox will have to stop preaching abstinence to Braves rookies.

Baby will be named Wren Hampton in honor of Frank Wren.

Hampton starting to “show”. Will wear special maternity top for last month of season.

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

So where is the “prado is a fringe player” crowd tonight? Guess .342 will make a believer out of even the most uninformed…

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

HR #28 for Jacobs and stolen bases #30 & 31 for Ramirez. Power AND speed.

By SNIPER-69

September 2, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

The braves decline began after Leo Mazzone left….Just an observation from a Mets fan.

By nfieldr

September 2, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Jeff321, don’t think Johnny Bench would have thrown out Hanley on the steal of 2nd… that was a HUGE jump on Morton.

By Hit, Heap, Hit

September 2, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Speaking of kids, ain’t it about time for Chipper to have another? He needs a little girl to boss him around.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rogers—

Yeah, we always knew he was an expert on steals…

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

2 errors in the first inning, and two stolen bases by Hanley. Mac just became this generation Mike Piazza.

By SNIPER-69

September 2, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

There’s a lot of living in the past in today’s post’s. I predicted that would happen when the braves started losing regularly. The next phase of the decline will be a lot of questions like, “How could we win only ONE WS in those 14 years?”

By I WRITE IN CAPS

September 2, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU SHOULD TRADE CHIPPER JONES!!!!!

HE ISN’T A GOOD BET FOR 130 GAMES FROM HERE ON OUT.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

nfieldr—

Thanks for the backup, man!

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

JamieinRichmond

I was too busy watching odarP close his eyes and turn his head on those short hops to be typing.

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Morton should have gotten out of the inning with NO runs scored.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Jeff321, don’t think Johnny Bench would have thrown out Hanley on the steal of 2nd… that was a HUGE jump on Morton.

FYI, McCann’s been throwing rainbows to second base.. So that the throw is accurate but really slow. And you might notice the “regular” throw to third almost went into left field again. I watch this team every single day, so take my word for it.

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

With all the call-ups, why is Infante playing third, and Prado playing first.

Should have been Kotchman at first, Prado at third, and either Infante or Johnson at second.

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

N Nine, Chipper needs 30 more plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

bfan54, they are correct. frank wren told us after the braves traded teixeira that the braves had made him an offer in spring training and we reported that. i don’t think it was anywhere in the neighborhood of what tex would be asking so it didn’t amount to anything serious.

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 2, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond - You misunderstood my comment on Bobby Cox. I know he gets fired up (the thrown out of games wrestler act) but I was talking about him smiling and looking like he was having fun being the manager back in 95. If you dont have the video get it and tell me that manager is the same guy we have now. Its not and concerns me that he is just doing this still because its all he knows what to do. If he is not having fun then how can the players?

By bobby

September 2, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

Can someone explain to me in simple, easy to understand english why Josh Anderson has been at Richmond all year?

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Or maybe like how Mets fans ask themselves “how could we win ZERO World Series’ in the past 14 years?” Or “How could we win only ONE division title in the last 14 years?”

What are you, 12? Or are you merely reading on a 12 year old level?

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Keylargo

I have zero idea what you are talking about. Re-post in a form sober English for me, thanks.

By bfan54

September 2, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

DAP (4:12) - Thank you. I was aware of this, but baseball metrics is out of style on this blog. The whole starter/short/middle/closer scheme is awry. Relief pitching ERA’s mean little to nothing, BA and SO/BB ratio’s are significant.

To all those bashing BC - I add a small note: I basically agree, but think the point is overstated. He was never as good as the 14 div titles, nor as bad as the bashers would have it. My thought is that he certainly doesn’t do well with a team in decline, nor a young or inexperienced team. I think the writing was on the wall early, and he failed to make the adjustments. I don’t think his use (overuse) of the pitching staff over the past 2-3 years is imaginative or healthy, and his stubbornness with batting orders and playing time for certain players is suspect. I don’t blame him for the poor season, but he didn’t “mitigate” the damageed situation with any sagacity whatsoever. He is under contract and won’t leave next year, but should quietly turn over the reins now that a ‘new era’ is upon us.

We need a pretty clean break - which doesn’t eliminate a Smoltz’, a Chipper, or even a Hampton from playing transitional roles. But none of these guys is more than a small piece of what is needed. Sorry to say, for sentimental reasons, that Glavine has no place in this transition.

By bfan54

September 2, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

DAP (4:12) - Thank you. I was aware of this, but baseball metrics is out of style on this blog. The whole starter/short/middle/closer scheme is awry. Relief pitching ERA’s mean little to nothing, BA and SO/BB ratio’s are significant.

To all those bashing BC - I add a small note: I basically agree, but think the point is overstated. He was never as good as the 14 div titles, nor as bad as the bashers would have it. My thought is that he certainly doesn’t do well with a team in decline, nor a young or inexperienced team. I think the writing was on the wall early, and he failed to make the adjustments. I don’t think his use (overuse) of the pitching staff over the past 2-3 years is imaginative or healthy, and his stubbornness with batting orders and playing time for certain players is suspect. I don’t blame him for the poor season, but he didn’t “mitigate” the damageed situation with any sagacity whatsoever. He is under contract and won’t leave next year, but should quietly turn over the reins now that a ‘new era’ is upon us.

We need a pretty clean break - which doesn’t eliminate a Smoltz’, a Chipper, or even a Hampton from playing transitional roles. But none of these guys is more than a small piece of what is needed. Sorry to say, for sentimental reasons, that Glavine has no place in this transition.

By Mitchell

September 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

I change my mind. I’m the one defending this team, not willing to give up and turn over to watching football like every other meat-head, but this is enough.

Screw the Braves. Go Falcons. Go Dawgs. Go Trojans!

They lose these one run games because they can’t get that final out (make that “final three outs”) or get a hit when a runner is in scoring position and you got Gonzo waiting in the pen. Every little mis-play or error comes back to haunt them, they can’t get away with anything. Like Nancy Johnson’s dropped pop-up proved, the Braves have been teetering on the edge of total oblivion and collapse for the last two years.

Now they are simply bad. I’m talking Royals bad. I’m talking about ‘95 Mets bad.

I can’t stand for this stupid, incompetent baseball and these unqualified retards who look like they can’t even tie their own f*ing shoes. This is truly as bad as it gets.

You can not give these guys extras out and undesereved runs. I’m not talking about unearned, our opponents do not deserve half of the wins they get against us. But we give them to them anyway.

Brian is to defense what Jeff is to offense.

Put Anderson in clean-up. At least he can hit a damn homerun.

And the very next at-bat for Martin Prado after he popped out with a runner at third to essentially end the game yesterday is a hit.

I love it!

How do the Pirates and Orioles and Mariners put up with this for year after year?

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Yeah, OK, Jeff321. I gotcha.

FYI I watch this team every single day, too.

H-Ram did have a huge lead from first, and the throw to third was rotten (as are most of his throws to third).

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Jamie, at the risk of starting another pointless debate, let me just say that, in all likelihood, we are seeing the pinnacle of Prado’s game and the worst of Kelly’s right now, so it is a bit unwise to just rush to judgment on these particular players based on a half-season’s worth of at-bats. You know what they say “what goes up must come down.”

Also, please don’t call me uninformed when all you can cite is batting average. I enjoy your posts and respect your opinions, but seriously…..

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Tomas—

Well, you don’t hafta get nasty…

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Another single! Whoo-hoo! Back to .298!

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

* Mitchell* Brian is to defense what Jeff is to offense.

Alright, that’s going a bit too far…

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Wow! What a great inning! But our TV was flipped…

; )

By SNIPERS ONLY FRIEND

September 2, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

I’ve known this kid my whole life and no one likes him. He’s a loser. Can’t you tell? I feel sorry for him so I say I’m his friend. Get this, he’s writes in his diary how much he respects the Braves and wishes his Mets could be that successful for that long. He is so nervous about the Mets choking again that he does his daily ritual of wearing a thong dancing with a David Wright life size doll. PATHETIC!!!

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Way to go Frenchy, now let’s see if the pitchers can hold a lead for the first time in their lives.

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

bobby, because in the braves view josh was the same kind of player as gregor blanco and mark kotsay, had the same kind of tools, played the same position. ….

jamie in richmond, what a poignant post about the last game in richmond. doesn’t surprise me about javy. there’s a reason he’s always been a fan favorite, and not just for his looks!

By Jake

September 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Errors are never a good thing but they are part of the game and young Charlie needs to learn how to pitch himself out of a mess whether he made it or not. All part of the learning curve. Now lets see how he pitches now that he has been given a lead.

By bfan54

September 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Would like some feedback on Soriano. Didn’t he have a 2 year deal with us, which would be fulfilled (is that the word for what he did for his many mil’s?).

Are we obligated to this sore armed (I always hesitate to call him a malingerer) gpitcher who should be named “no mas”, or ssorry - -arm - o.!

By bruce

September 2, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

McFann— awesome… I missed it, just now logged onto computer to watch…

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

For all the Frank Wren haters out there, consider that we got Anderson for a guy that has been released twice this season.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

First of all, Cox said he would not use Kotchman immediately when he returns since he has not picked up a bat in two weeks

JamieinRichmond

odarP nitraM is dyslexic for Martin Prado. See Ms. McFann for the origin.

When odarP plays defense, he is terrified that the ball will hit him. If you watch him in the field, he will sooner or later jump aside when a screaming line drive is going to short hop him. He proved tonight he will close his eyes and turn his head on a short hop throw when he is playing first. He did it especially bad on the first Infante throw.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Soriano’s arm only got “sore” after he started giving up jacks last year!

Btw, where are the Josh Anderson haters tonight, eh?

Too bad they didn’t have him starting every game this season. Because it would be a whole different story.

By Mitchell

September 2, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

“The braves decline began after Leo Mazzone left… Just an observation from a Mets fan.”

Hey Sniper69, why don’t you try not to lose the division again and go ahead and get swept in the first round and then shut the Hell up and mind your own business.

It’s so interesting that you finally win the division when the Braves finish below .500 for the first time in 16 years. You start winning when we start losing. Interesting. Oh but wait, you didn’t win last year did you?

I realize that your comment was not exactly meant to be an insult but I’d still like you not to talk until your pathetic team does something to prove its fan base isn’t a bunch of losers.

Wow, that was wordy, wasn’t it?

By Brian

September 2, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

DAP/McFann- The Doc prescribed me some anti-stat meds and they haven’t worn off yet so I’ll be able give some thought on the KJ/PRADO deal. In KJ’s defense he has played alot more this season than Prado and getting worn down is a problem for him. Or it was last year. But I would still take my chances with Prado any day of the week. Just my opinion.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

bfan54

Soriano was operated on for an inflamed nerve and a bone spur was removed. He is supposed to be back for spring training.

By bruce

September 2, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

For those folks who have never pitched or caught or talked to anyone who has… there is alot more to catching than many believe. Remember Smoltz saying immediately when Brian came up that he liked Brian and other pitchers enjoy pitching to him… there is communciation and skill in knowing what to call for from each pitcher in each situation that is alot more than throwing to second base…. Brian is struggling a bit with his throws… but he is still a two time all-star in his first two full years…

By Is McCann Hurt???

September 2, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Sammons????

By TNJeff

September 2, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

How crazy would it be for the Braves to blow a 10 - 3 lead?

By Jake

September 2, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Hey keylargo chill man. Prado is no more a first baseman than Chipper is. With Kotchman gone and Norton hurt who else was going to play there?

Jeff321

I don’t know who was hating on Anderson, but I think Bobby and people in the organization have made it quite clear that they thought Anderson and Blanco were the same player. In essence, they are. Even if it had been Anderson who was given the spot over Blanco we would still be in the same position. Unless he can jack up 50 homers we would still be the team with no power and the one who struggled with runners on base. How long did it take Bobby to put Blanco in the leadoff spot. He kept putting Kelly and Yunel up there. Nice to see what Anderson can do now, but let’s not get carried away with a couple of nice games. It will be interesting to see how the outfield shapes up next year because i have a feeling either Anderon or Blanco will be out there and hopefully a power bat in left field. Anderson brings speed and hopefully a little more power while Blanco brings long at bats and good bunting. I’ll be happy either way.

By bruce

September 2, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

have the Braves ever worn the new hats (the ones they wear with the blue jerseys) with the grey away jerseys before? I noticed it just now when McDowell went to the mound to talk to Charlie about throwing strikes…

By BravesFan79

September 2, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

I KNEW i could count on Cox to pull the right strings tonight to make sure we moved closer to that top draft pick!!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I appreciate that you said you respect my opinion, and so likewise I’ll give you the same respect. It’s nice to chat with an adult on this blog, for a change :)

Your point about Prado is well taken in that I’ll admit he’s not going to hit .345 for the remained of his career, and so to that point I’ll agree he’s at the top of his game right now. But I truly believe he’s earned the opportunity to supplant Kelly at second base and continue to show how long he’s capable of playing at a high level. While Martin may not be a .345 hitter forever, I dont think its unrealistic to think he’s anything less than a solid .295-.305 hitter. The way he keeps his bat back in the hitting zone and uses all fields is especially inspiring.

Furthermore, I just really enjoy the hustle he shows in his all around game, something that I don’t (personally) see nearly as much of with Kelly.

As for my crack on the uninformed, I certainly am not trying to cast that aspersion on you specifically, although I will maintain that it’s my opinion that anyone who thinks Martin is a “fringe player” or that he’s “awful” as I’ve read on this blog is severely misguided.

Sure, Martin’s stats will drop back down. But his slugging percentage and batting average, as they stand now, are more than enough reason to be excited about his future.

By Firetheoldfool

September 2, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Alright!!! Way to go Marlins. Of course its not Bobby’s fault. He just sits his old fat $^%&#&$ on the bench and picks his nose. BC absolutely does nothing right anymore. He needs to go.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

I just left the game 10-3 for five minutes now i get back and the score 10-9, what the hell. This pitchers can’t hold leads amazing.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

@ 8:45—

I DON’T KNOW!!! It’s prob’ly just ‘cause of the blowout…What? They lost the blowout? Oh fiddlesticks…

Bruce—

Man! Sorry you missed it! He and Prado did a double steal.

Your 8:42 was spot on! Thank you for that. (But McCann is a 3 time All-Star. I’m not pickin’ on you there.)

They’ve worn the all-blue hats with the greys a couple times.

Brian—

I hope those meds start working soon!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Keylargo

You seem like an unusual guy. Glad you think it’s hysterical to spell a fella’s name in dyslexic fashion. Boy, that’s awfully funny..what a riot you are. (or not)

Prado’s been nothing but good over there at first base, I seriously wonder if you’ve even been watching the games.

Anyway, I’ll let you get back to you word jumble. I’m sure you’ve got a game of “Boggle” to break out later on when you’re done finding ways to re-arrange Prado’s name.

By iowabrave

September 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Mark it down…We win tonite by 1 run. Iron lock guarantee.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Bruce

I think the Braves wore the hats for the first couple of times early in the year when they were trying to break a road losing streak (road grays would be worn then).

By Mitchell

September 2, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Okay, I change my mind.

Go Braves!

But this is what I’m talking about. There is still talent and ability on this team, they’re just so good at losing.

They’re just not smart but there are a lot of players who could go to contending teams and be very valuable. Kotsay anyone?

I swear to God though, if they lose this one…

Far from over.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about y’all, but I’m not feeling very good about this one run lead!

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Firetheoldfool

Clearly anyone as thoughtful and eloquent as you demonstrate to be in your post must be right. I can’t understand why the Braves brass hasnt contacted you yet about succeeding Bobby next year. Stay classy…

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree with Jeff321. He states that if Anderson had been playing here all season, it would be a whole different story

I think Anderson might be better than Gregor Blanco, but enough to make up all the issues the Braves have had this game?? This is hightly unlikely.

I can’t understand how Anderson being in CF all year would have helped Peter Moylan, Mike Hampton, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Rafael Soriano or Tim Hudson at all.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

No Jeff Ridgeway is in the game in a 10-9 game. I think there is a 90% chance the Braves will lose this game. Very hard to think positively right now.

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Carroll Rogers

Thanks for the kind words. It was indeed a very strange, and emotional day on many, many levels.

Glad to hear what we saw from Javy yesterday didnt come as a surprise to you. He also had several nice quotes about his time here in Richmond, as did Murph.

Former R-Brave Ralph Garr was also present, and was inducted into the International League Hall of Fame over the weekend too. Seems like a heck of a nice guy too, from what I’ve read.

And a side note for the fellas (Carroll, I don’t think this will interest you much)…Lilly was signing autographs out of the window of his SUV on his way out of the Diamond parking lot (a nice gesture on his part), and I’ve gotta say…as much as I’ve been impressed with his glove and his speed, in looking at who he has riding shotgun-I’m even more impressed with his girlfriend. The males in Braves nation may have a new favorite “better half”. She’s absolutely gorgeous. :)

By bruce

September 2, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

McFann__any word on Brian coming out of the game? I am watching on computer so it is the Marlins broadcast and they did not say anything that I heard.

By Del

September 2, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

I didn’t think it was possible to blow a 10-3 lead. Silly me, I forgot we were dealing with the 2008 Braves. Holy smokes are we bad or are we bad!!! Will this season never end???

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Every time I see a one run game in the road I know the Braves wont win. Talk about having absolutely no pitching other than Hampton, Jair, Bennet, and Mike Gonzalez.

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Threadkill Just because the Yankees say they want a player doesn’t mean they will get him. The Santana contract is one with money deferred, why is it beyond the Braves means to do the same?In other words $20 million/year with the rest deferred.

With this typeof contract, again just like the one the New York Mets gave Santana, the Braves can most certainly play on the same level as the Yankees.

The idea that the Braves will have to invest all of their budget in order to sign Santana is false. The idea that the Santana is beyond the reach of any team save the Yankees and BoSox is likely due to believing ESPN hype.

hey bfan54 are you clear on that Tex contract offer matter now?

Again if the Braves can offer a contract that was at least $140 million to Tex, why can’t they offer the same if not a bit more to a recent Cy Young winner entering his prime? Santana’s contract is for $123 million, with the deffered money it’s worth $139 million.

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

While I am hopeful Martin Prado (or nitram odarp per Wil Ohman) will end up being the next “Pete Rose” type player for second base, my mind keeps taking me back to Willie Harris of last year. He gravitated back to his typical level of performance.

Now that does beg another question: What of Willie Harris of 2008? Real or a fluke?

My prediction for tonight: Braves 18, Marlins 17.

By bruce

September 2, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Keylargo thanks for the word on the blue hats with road grays… maybe we can win a one run game on the road and break that string… (now that we are tied)

By Firetheoldfool

September 2, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Hey Jamie in Richmond. Are you kidding me? I am sure you are one classy guy yourself. Of course, you are one of the remaining few that thinks its not BCs fault. How would you like the old fool in Richmond?

By StingerSplash

September 2, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Just when you thought the pitching staff was bad …. it’s even worse than imagined! Can anybody here get anybody out?

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

So, let me get this straight. The Braves are leading by one run and Cox brings in Ridgway??

Oh, and now what do we have? A tie ball game thanks to Blaine Boyer..

So, Mr. Boyer proceeds to throw some pitches way outside.. one goes by for a pass ball. Now Cox goes into full stench mode and gives up the INTL walk. Oh wow, now another pass ball and we’re losing.

Infield in (Another one of Cox’s favorite HOF moves) and it backfires once again. Braves losing 13-10 still no one out!

By MJ

September 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Wow, this game is amazing! 24 games and counting; I wonder if we canstart counting by 2s?

By Jake

September 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Charlie disapoints again. You have a lead, throw strikes. Don’t throw strikes after you walk the bases loaded. I can’t hate on the Marlins, they are fighting for their playoff lives. I just wish this team would show some of that same fight. It is sad that abosolutely no lead is safe with this team. It’s just pathetic. Hopefully we can somehow find something positive to take out of this last month.

By caballo muerto

September 2, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

This team needs a culture change in the worst way. Bobby Coxsucker for one more year ain’t gonna cut it. Most of you guys are just debating how many angels can dance on a pin.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Bruce—

No, I’m not sure why they took him out. They didn’t say anything on TV (while we had it on the game, that is). I would guess it’s because at the time the Braves were winning 10-3, and there is a day game tomorrow. Seems like they would have said if he was hurt…but maybe they don’t know, or I missed something.

Holy Cannoli, Boyer! Thanks a lot! Boy, our pitching tonight has been bad, hasn’t it? Sheesh…

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

2 pass balls and a bad hop, please tell me this is a nightmare. Braves really need to make a lot of serious changes on the bulpen/ starting pitchers. Man this is awful. Bunch of losers. They score ten runs in 4 innings and then can’t hold that lead. Boyer is worrying me, I don’t think he will make the team in spring training next year. Damn Amezaga.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

JaimeinRichmond

You keep coming back so you can teach us more here on the blog! We love rookies.

It sure is nice of you to help us out. Keep making friends where ever you go!!

Good Luck

By MattyBrave

September 2, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Just found an interview of DOB from this past weekend. Interesting stuff about Frenchy, TP and Jordan Schafer. (www.houseofbravestalk.com)

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

To make matters worse…

Grove just hit a solo homer, giving him 21 HR and 80 RBI!

Confound it!

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Is Boyer not warming up properly in the bulpen, or is he yellow. This bulpen is full of yellowers.

By BravesFan79

September 2, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Mitchell: Screw the Braves. Go Falcons. Go Dawgs. Go Trojans! I sure hope your talking about the condoms you use when banging hookers and not the team from the pssy athletic confrence that defends the BCS.

Lets face it… college football will always be a JOKE of a sport until a playoff system is put in place!
Boise State…the TRUE UNDEFEATED champs of 2006!
I mean seriously, can you call a sport a sport when a team can go undefeated and still have NO shot at a national title?

I mean heck…all sports should reward and give .500 teams a chance to jump up and down like monkeys yelling “were #1, i mean #31” at the end of the season.

Lets keep pretending winning a trophy of a cow and some free chic-fillet coupons actually means something. I mean you wouldnt wanna hurt the little football players feelings by saying “sorry u werent good enough to be in the 16 team playoff” Stay Home! Nope….that just wouldnt be fair to the kids in pee wee… i mean college football.

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Firetheoldfool

You’re obviously so sure that it’s Bobby’s fault that 40 yr old arms have fallen off this year, and Frenchy’s career has taken a nosedive. I’m not really interested in trying to show you the proverbial light. I just don’t understand how calling the man an “old fool”, referencing his “fat a$$” or him “picking his nose” accomplishes anything other than confirming that you are indeed in 7th grade.

I’m hardly one of the remaining few who think it’s not “Bobby’s fault”. Sporting News, not more than one month ago, polled MLB players, scouts, and front officer personel on who they thought the best mananger in the National League was, and it was Bobby…by far, and I mean, it wasnt even close.

You see, those who know far more about the game than either you or me seem to think he’s one hell of a baseball mananger, so forgive me if I place more faith in their judgement than I do in yours.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard an ESPN commentator speak of how great a mananger Bobby is. I can’t begin to recount how many times I’ve read a column describing what’s made Bobby so successful. For now, I’ll continue to feel comfortable in knowing my stance is supported by the entire baseball world and those who are paid for their opinion and make their living by being “in the know”.

As to your latter point, not only would I have loved to have had Bobby here managing the R-Braves, but I’d love him at the helm of any entity as the leader, be it the boss of my corporation or city mayor. What make’s Bobby so successful is not only that he’s a great baseball mind. But he’s a great leader of men, handles personalities and talents better than any of his peers, and commands respect while also showing it.

I’ll expect some sort of “Bobby picks his nose” reply, but rest assured that when I see your silly handle atop of your post, I’ll simply skip over it without reading.

Enjoy your night, and good luck with the upcoming school year. That “nose picking” zinger oughta elicit a few laughs tomorrow at recess by the monkey bars:)

By Favreiszeus

September 2, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Does anybody know what happened to Phil Stockman? I know the season has been in the can for about two months, and I am sure our record wouldn’t be affected too much by a situational middle man, but isn’t it a well established fact that Ridgway would be little more than a joke in a 50-and-up rec-softball league? Why he, Dessens, Ring, and the like have had roster spots - not to mention pitching opportunities - instead of Stockman is beyond me.

Dude’s humongous too.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree with Jeff321. He states that if Anderson had been playing here all season, it would be a whole different story

That was a bad choice of words on my part.

I can’t understand how Anderson being in CF all year would have helped Peter Moylan, Mike Hampton, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Rafael Soriano or Tim Hudson at all.

What about Anderson being in right field for the 22+ at bats Frenchy’s failed to deliver? How many GIDP’s does Anderson have?

Plus, Anderson plays better defense (in the outfield) than Norton or Infante. So, with his speed, ability to make contact, and defense.. The Braves would have a better record that they do now.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

13-12 what a slugfest.

By Jake

September 2, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

For those who are just fightin for something positive. Our bullpen next year (with a little luck and some prayer) could be Gonzalez, Soriano, Moylan, Smoltz, and Ohman. Who knows, in order for us to get back to the top we might have to descend to the very bottom and I don’t see how we can get much lower than this.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

jaimeinrichmond

Do you read the blog or do you just come on and start posting? I counted the times Prado was referred to as odarP and it was six times that I found in this blog alone.

And by the way. It came from Will Ohman will did it as a joke in introducing the Braves while acting as Harry Caray!

But you knew that, right? You so smart!!!

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

BRAVES LEAD!! BRAVES LEAD!!

By MattyBrave

September 2, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

I screwed up the link. Trying again. Just found an interview of DOB from this past weekend. Interesting stuff about Frenchy, TP and Jordan Schafer. [www.houseofbravestalk.com]

By Couldnt Resist

September 2, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Oh look, it’s Bobby’s fault the Braves have retaken the lead. Oh wait, it’s only his fault when they are losing……

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Jamie:

Ok. I can agree with that. Now let’s do a rough analysis and delve a little deeper. Going per baseball-reference, Prado’s sporting a very nice line of .338/.388/.523. You say Prado is more of a career .295ish hitter. Prado’s walk rate (7.4%) this season is exactly equal to his average from 2005 on (both minors and majors via fangraphs.com). So if Prado’s BA goes down from .338 to .295, we can assume a drop in OBP of around the same amout, i.e. from .388 to .345, which is just about average (actually, it was just a tiny bit lower the median OBP in 2005, for recent-hisory reference). Let’s say Martin posts a 430 SLG (a little bit higher than his minors/majors average). This gives Martin a .295/.345/.430 line, for a .775 OPS. That’s a little bit above average. That’s also a pretty decent estimate of his 2009 production, based on BABIP numbers, walk rate (which is fairly low, this suggests he will have to maintain an OBP by getting base hits, never a reliable thing), and career numbers.

Now, this begs the question: will Kelly Johnson be better than average in 2009? Well, Kelly has two full seasons of major league ball under his belt, so let’s look at those.

2007: .832 OPS, with a line of .276/.375/.457.

2008: .733 OPS, with a line of .263/.331/.402.

Which Kelly is the real Kelly? Well, for one thing, Kelly’s walk rate (9.2%, two percent higher than Martin’s post-2005 average) is the lowest of any season after (and including) 2005. His average is 11.5% and last season he was at 13.2%. So Kelly’s OBP is a bit lower than we would expect it to be. In addition, his SLG is well below his 2007 and career levels (career minors SLG: .464, career minors OBP: .364). So, based on these numbers, is Kelly capable of posting a line better than .295/.345/.430? Yes. While it may not be a 900 OPS season, it will be a little bit better. I’d say a line of .275/.360/.450, OPS=810 is a reasonalbe projection for Kelly, based on these numbers. Also, KJ career EqA is .270, or ten points above average, for what it’s worth.

Prado has never been fleet of foot, so his range won’t be shockingly better than Kelly’s at 2B. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but it’s true. Besides, most analysis that I’ve seen suggests that mediocre defense is more than offset by good hitting.

Again, I’m not saying Martin is terrible, I’m actually very impressed and very pleased with Martin’s play this season. I would be (gulp) comfortable if he winds up being our starter in 09. Most everything I can come up with suggests that Martin will be at least an average everyday 2B, possibly a little better, possibly a little worse. I’m willing to accept this if we get a good left fielder and get a really nice return for Kelly in a trade. I’m just saying if I had the choice, based on numbers, I’d take KJ. Please, please consider that everything you’ve seen this season is small sample size. A decision to just dump Kelly is a hasty, irrational, not-well-thought out decision. I would really, REALLY love to give them both another season in Atlanta for further comparison.

I began writing this when Charlie was still pitching, and now as I’m finishing the ugly stick hits a very ugly double to put us back in the lead.

By Blaine Boyer is a vat of recycled goo

September 2, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

OK. I’m not watching the game. But I checked the boxscore. And now I have to drop what I’m doing and come here and remind you people:

Blaine Boyer is a waste of a roster spot.

How many times have I told you this? 100? 1,000? I’ve lost track.

Blaine Boyer is a vast expanse of nothingness.

How many times will I have to keep on telling you this?

I will not rest until this clown is off the team for good. He is the epitome of everything wrong with this club.

Day or night, I will speak truth to power:

Blaine Boyer is a vat of recycled goo.

By Johntide

September 2, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

So Chippie is out of the lineup. Wonder if he’s acting like Hal McRae, sitting out so he has chance to win the batting title. Go Pujols.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Escobar cracks me up. He just took his elbow protector in the middle of a intenional ball #2.

By Hit, Heap, Hit

September 2, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Well thank the lord I didn’t watch this game. I just came to check in on the blog to see if Ms. Rogers had an update on Chipper and I see that there is no need for me to fire up gameday or muster the energy required to push some buttons on my remote. Way to go Braves and HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE INTENTIONAL WALK HAVE TO BITE BOBBY IN THE ASSSSSSSS BEFORE HE STOPS DOING THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arg.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 2, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Keylargo—

Yeah, wow. Jamie sure is making a big deal about the Odarp thing.

Jamie—

Watch the clip I have posted here. It never stops being funny!

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond: I have been a reader of the blog for several month now, and finally decided to enter the “fray” as it were.

There are so many that post who would have you think that Bobby Cox is bordering on the worst manager in the major leagues.

While I do not agree with some of his strategies, he certainly doesn’t have to apologize to any bloggers for his career record.

It is so easy to be critical, when you are not sitting in the “big boss’” chair.

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Keylargo

Thanks for the reply.

I read the blog everyday, although I typically just read David or Carroll’s commentary and skip everything else (can’t imagine why), so no..I’ve never read a single post of yours until today.

I’m not really interested in finding out what’s so hilarious about misspelling someone’s name…guess I’ve missed the big joke.I’m also sorry I’ve coerced you into counting how many times you called him odarP, but I can only imagine it must have cut dinner short. That said, I’d be more than happy to engage youin a debate over Prado’s exceptional play as of late. He and and Omar have been a breath of fresh air, and they’re certainly upholding their ends of the bargain tonight again. I failt to understand your grip with how he’s handled the recent switch to first base, but I’ll respect your opinion to the contrary. Cheers…

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond: I have been a reader of the blog for several month now, and finally decided to enter the “fray” as it were.

There are so many that post who would have you think that Bobby Cox is bordering on the worst manager in the major leagues.

While I do not agree with some of his strategies, he certainly doesn’t have to apologize to any bloggers for his career record.

It is so easy to be critical, when you are not sitting in the “big boss’” chair.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Right now I have to give Bobby credit for making all the right moves in this game so far. I just don’t want to see Dessens or Nuñez, unless it’s absolutely an emergency.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

How many points are the Falcons getting tonight?

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Harry Brave

Thank you, exactly my point. I concur.

By gayle

September 2, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond

Your support of Bobby is just the kind of enabling that will ensure this team stays where it is until someone takes BC down off his altar.

As a matter of fact it IS his fault that the arms fell off 40 year old pitchers because unless you are in some nether world of denial - all of those 40 year-old pitchers were on this team because of his choice.

Please don’t try to suggest that after managing a team for 15+ years Bobby does not have a significant input into selecting his roster. All those players were here because he wanted them here.

And as for Francouer, you’re right, BC did not cause his sudden fall - but when an attempt was made to correct Francouer’s problems at the plate by shipping him to Mississippi for awhile, I would be shocked if it wasn’t BC who overruled Wren and brought the rightfielder back after his 3-day rejuvination.

All you Cox apologists give it up. What is owed to this man? We as fans deserve the ownership of this team to make an honest effort to be competitive and bring recognition to the team and to the city.

While they have desperately held on to past glories, real and imagined, two good managers have left Atlanta to run other teams. And figuring that Bobby was done and over with after the 1999 World Series sweep, how many competant and qualified managers from other places have found employment with other teams?

As long as Captain Cox is at the helm, the team will continue to go nowhere. I don’t care if they get Sabbathia, Sheets, Tex and every other available free agent. He’s done.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Julian you’re the man. He ain’t been a bad pick at all, but Nuñez, and Dessens are wasting a roster spot.

By Jake

September 2, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

keylargo

I know man, ther’s nothing like September football…………….i mean baseball. I’m going for 17.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 2, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Hey, y’all: THE BRAVES ARE WINNING!

And they just escaped a bases-loaded jam.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

jaimeinrichmond

McFann at 9:46 has reposted the clip of Ohman doing the odarP lineup.

Maybe if you watch that, you will understand.

And you better be nice to McFann. The whole blog will be on your POSTERIOR if you treat her bad.

By Couldnt Resist Again

September 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Good move by Bobby to bring Tavarez in. Oh wait, it’s dumb luck when the move works……..

By dannycardwell

September 2, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

i cant help but wonder if all our bull pen guys are worn out, then why are they being used tonight instead of the fresh young arms brought up from the minors? it seems to me if you have been doing things a certain way every day for several months with poor results you might want to try something different. going to be lots of empty seats in atlanta the rest of this year and next.

By Brian

September 2, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure what year it was when we had that awesome bullpen. Maybe 03’? I’d like to know what our starting pitchers innings per start was that year. No doubt it was better than this year but you have to wonder if Mazzone was here, would he have let Cox run those guys out there like he’s done this year.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Wow, how many bad outings is that for Ohman in a row now? 4 or 5?

By Wayne in Utah

September 2, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Wow, go away for a while, and looks like we might finally win a one run game on the road. Stranger things have happened.

Thought I would give the blog one last visit tonight. After my last adventure (some poor excuses for blogging “fun”), I have determined that I will probably not return as a contributor, but only as an ocassional reader.

I can’t see subjecting myself to unacceptable behavior on a blog. If I were at a party, and this sort of conversations ensued, I would not stay.

So, if this is indeed my last visit, I would like to thank those who have been good friends for the past few years. If I try to name names, I will surely forget someone.

For those who for some reason enjoy being controversial or crude, congratulations! You win.

Until organizations like the AJC decide to put some serious controls on those who would demean others, I think I will pass on this blogging experience.

I would also like to state that it was not any particular post that offended me, but a chain of very unflattering comments made towards a woman in the news that went, for the most part unchallenged, and worse yet was contributed to by Ms Rogers.

Looks like we might have our next set-up man in Julian Tavares!

Go Braves!

By McFann ;Ô;

September 2, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Heh heh…Thanks, Keylargo!

Ah, that Jamie don’t scare me. But I greatly appreciate you having my back!

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

gayle (this goes for all anti-Bobby people out there), there are so many things wrong with your 9:57 that I almost want to spend my remaining night contradicting it. But as it is, I’ll just put out this little tidbit: a manager means very little to his team. As long as he doesn’t do something silly like put Chipper behind the plate and McCann in center, and bat Charlie Morton cleanup, he’s doing just fine. A manager’s primary job is to run a good clubhouse and keep the players happy. Bobby does this. If you disagree, PROVE IT TO ME QUANTITATIVELY.

Frank Wren is in charge of putting together the team. Bobby can offer his advice and input, but the final say was with Wren (for the record, he put together the best lineup he could with the resources he had available. You really think he can find five starters and three outfielders in one offseason? I don’t).

I’ll leave you with this little snippet from one of my favorite baseball meta-analysis websites, firejoemorgan.com, since they say it so much better than I can. (this comes from a ranking of managers by some guy):

6. Bobby Cox I’m sure most would rank him higher. But since the goal is to win titles, that has to be seen as a failing.

“I mean, you’ve got to be kidding me.

Figuring out what effect, if any, a manager has on a team is very difficult. Moneyball famously talks about how Billy Beane loved Art Howe because Howe sat stoically in the dugout and stared straight ahead and had the appearance of a leader, while essentially just following orders. He presided over those overachieving computer-generated teams that everyone loves to call underachieving because they got terribly unlucky in October, and then he went to the Mets and stunk up the place.

As I said, most anecdotal evidence (because empirical evidence with managers seems misleading) says that managers’ most important job is that of a sheep dog — herding the players in the same direction, keeping them from going astray over the course of a long season, focusing them on the task at hand, that kind of thing.

If that is at all true…who is better than Bobby Cox? He didn’t win titles? He won every division title from 1844 to 2005. He throws some of the best player-protecting temper tantrums in the game. His guys love him. He handles veterans and rookies and retreads and rich guys and does gutsy things like make John Smoltz a closer. If I were GMing a team, I might get Bobby Cox to run it. Assuming he secretly agreed to run it Moneyball-style.”

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Gayle

Nice to hear from you. I can appreciate dissent, but at this point I really don’t think there is much that I’d be able to say to someone like yourself who has it in your mind that it’s “Bobby’s fault”. I have yet to hear or read anything from a single baseball analyst to ever support anything even close to your thoughts. I know David OBrien has written here, in reference to your silly stance, that baseball people- players, other managers, front office folks, laugh at the notion that there are a few like you who have this distorted perception of reality.

Yet, I’m hopeful that you’re up for an open and adult debate about Bobby, his talents, and his responsibilities, and so I’ll engage you.

To cast blame on Bobby for the injuries of our pitchers this year is misguided. How is it Bobby’s fault that Hudson went down? Moylan? Did Bobby sign Sori to that contract extenstion and subsequently take a hammer to Raphael’s elbow? The only signing they made of an old pitcher was Glavine, a guy who’d never been on the DL a day in his life. Wrenn signed him, not Bobby. Yet, you still believe it is Cox who is responsible for his injury? I cannot even begin to think of a way to rationalize what you’re claiming.

You ask what is owed to this man, in reference to Bobby Cox. For starters, I’d say he is owed an amount of respect at a level consisting of refrain from personal attacks, especially juvenile ones, as are so prevelant among some of the wordsmiths of this blog.

You ask how many managers would have kept their job after being swept in the 99 series? Really, you’re asking that? Gayle, do you know how many managers have guided their teams to first place finishes for 14 consecutive full seasons?

Perhaps you don’t know enough about the rest of the team to cast blame on where it deserves, and if that’s the case I certainly won’t hold you accountable for your view. But having a conversation with someone who thinks that the struggles of 2008 are Bobby Cox’s “fault” is akin to having a conversation with someone who thinks that Pres. Bush is a “nazi”. When challenged to support the position with rational thought and examples, the question of “why?” is typically answered with “because”.

You’ll continue to feel as if there’s a great injustice in the world because the “truth” is it’s Bobby’s fault that Infante broke his hand in spring training, or it’s Bobby’s fault that Tex didn’t want to sign a reasonable contract extension in the spring. And that’s fine, its a blog…scopes of opinion are what this realm is for. But I will also continue to feel comfortable in knowing that my position is supported by 750 other MLB players, beat writers from this newspaper and across the country, and every baseball analyst receiving a paycheck for his or her opinion. I just tend to put a little more stock in the opinions of folks of that ilk…call me crazy. Again, I ask you to check out that Sporting News poll from earlier this summer that supported what everyone within the game already knows…that Bobbb has been the best manager in the national league since he’s been in the national league.

Enjoy your night, Gayle.

By Call and Response

September 2, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

OK everyone. Let’s show some team spirit.

I’ll yell: Blaine Boyer

and you yell…

By McFann O

September 2, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Wanye! NO!! You can’t go! NO!

Well…if you must go…farewell, I guess…Stop by some time, will ya, please?

We’ll miss ya, man! :,(

By McFann O

September 2, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Wayne—

I do understand your reason for departure (though I didn’t read the comments, thank the Lord). But it’s just sad to see you go.

By Braveheart

September 2, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Stolen bases, home runs, runs being scored? What the hell is going on?

By Metropolitan Man

September 2, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

LMAO, you guys have Jorge Julio. Desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Man Sammons just can catch it tonight.

By Brett Butler fan

September 2, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Jorge Julio in… There went that lead! 1st & 2nd with nobody out. Hey let’s leave him in the game. Oh, why did I start thinking we might win this game? That’s stinkin’ thinkin’!

By Jake

September 2, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

I know they took Mac out a while ago, but does anybody know why? I know we were up by a big lead at the time, but it was still so early in the game. Did anything happen to him?

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio

Amen to that brother. Tremendous post.

One of the most underappreciated talents of Bobby is his ability to blend personalities, insitl confidence in his players, and insist that the game is played the proper way. It’s not at all like coaching an NFL team where a coach is responsible for drawing up every X and O. Baseball, furthermore, is a grind, and a happy clubhouse, a confident team, and having players that would walk through fire for their manager goes a hell of a long way during a 162 game season. Nobody does it better than Bobby Cox. That said, if anyone wants to disagree with who he’s brought out of the bullpen or whether or not he should have bunted at any given time, that’s fine…fair game. But to act like a pre-pubescent child and having nothing other to say than “Bobby picks his nose” or “Bobby is a donkey” only gives further credence to your point and mine…that those who truly believe the struggles of this team are on Bobby Cox are mainly (and I didn’t say all, I said mainly) idiots who cannot supply tangible examples but rather prefer to test out their newest playground barbs and pool-hall insults.

I once interviewed for a job, and talked with the mananger about what sort of manager I’d want to be in that banking position. He’s a sports fan, and so I knew he’d appreciate what I meant when I told him that I aspired to be every bit of the leader of men (and women) that Bobby is, and has been. I supplied several examples as to what makes Bobby such a great leader, and he concurred. And to this day, I still aspire to lead in the same way that he does, by instilling confidence, by creating a professional and winning atmosphere, and by commanding respect while always showing it to otherss.

By gayle

September 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Steve I appreciate the insight, research and context regarding the limited impact of the manager and the fact that Bobby is a popular guy - kind of like that old uncle who tells dirty jokes.

If this is the case, then why does a team fire managers in mid-season (or earlier)? Why bother?

And is it that Bobby is the only manager who “protects” his players by throwing tantrums and getting kicked out of games? What about LaRussa and Torre? Don’t they care about their players? They must not if getting kicked out of games is your only criteria.

And please, while the corporate flow chart might support your assessment of who builds this team, I don’t buy for a second that there is anyone in that dugout who Bobby does not want there.

You can look back over the past few years and pick out players that didn’t fit the Bobby mold - Justice, Lofton, Bret Boone - there were others, but my point is that if Bobby didn’t want them there, they were gone.

So if I want someone to keep the clubhouse happy and the players content, Bobby might be a good choice. But if that is your only criteria (winning apparently isn’t), you might do just as well with that great catering guy who always brought the rare roast beef.

This team is stale, unmotivated and without a real direction and focus. As much as all you Bobby apologists resist, this team needs a significant change and that change starts in the dugout.

By caballo muerto

September 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

gayle, you hit that one out of the park. Nice synopsis.

Steve/OH, I don’t what to say to you. Assuming you’re a Braves fan, I’m gleaning from your words that you’re happy with Cox’s management of hitters and pitchers and significant input into the team. You’re happy with him managing for more years in Atlanta.

He won those division titles because he had FOUR HOF’ers on the teams.

Wow. Just wow. And quoting a “website” was the kicker.

By John

September 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Which is a worse prospect for success— the Atlanta Braves as a future pennant contender or Sarah Palin as future President of the United States?

By smells like goo spirits

September 2, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Jorge Julio?

Smells like goo.

By StingerSplash

September 2, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Why the hell is Jorge Julio still in there? Is it that thin in the bullpen that this never-was has to be in a Braves uni?

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Holy cow…What the heck?

And that Grove just hit his thirty-second double!

Rackin’-frackin’…

By Jamie in Richmond

September 2, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Met Man

Julio has been great at AAA for us this summer. Don’t be so fast to judge him soley on tonight’s performance. He’s looked very good in Richmond. A lot remains to be seen, but don’t dismiss him too prematurely.

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Dude…Salty’s out for the season with an arm injury. That’s sad…

Check out this kind of arrogant remark by their other catcher, regarding the platoon he was in with Salty:

“It’s not what I expected,” Laird said. “I will say the team definitely has a decision to make. I’m kind of tired of dealing with this. I think they owe it to all of us to settle the situation. I want to have the opportunity to play without worrying about a young guy coming up and taking my job.”

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Leadoff walk bite the Braves in the a* again. Bringing in Julio was the only logical choice. Bennet has been used a lot lately, including two innings yesterday, and Dessens and Nuñez have blown it so many times that there is 0 confindence in those guys. Julio isn’t that bad only gave up one run and pitched really well to end the inning. He’s problem last year was that he couldn’t get that slider for a strike, and only had the 97mph fastball, but he threw for a strike this time.

By Philliesuk

September 2, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

I smell another 1-run loss on the road. I was at the game yesterday, and from the 8th inning on, I knew that it was meant to be. I really believed it when Gonzo walked the first guy.

At least we’ve made this one exciting.

By Wayne in Utah

September 2, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

McFann As much as I hate to go, this is something I must do. When I go to a movie that offends me, I leave. Why should a blog be different?

I will miss my friends, and I count you as one. If you want to keep in touch, Lew has my email. Contact him.

I love talking Braves, but not at any expense. I find that when I get frustrated on the blog, I become someone I am not fond of. I just don’t need the complication.

Take care, and be true to yourself! (if I come back later for a few moments, I will use our “code” name for your favorite player!)

:-)

By e pluribis chop em

September 2, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Which is a worse prospect for success— the Atlanta Braves as a future pennant contender or Sarah Palin as future President of the United States?

Worst: Sarah Palin as general manager of the Braves.

The Braves would no longer have a closer. Their policy would be to simply abstain from giving up late inning runs.

By N8

September 2, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox

I’m here. Glad I could help.

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

gayle, maybe they fire the managers because they aren’t creating a good clubhouse environment? Or maybe they’re trying to appease fans?

In any case, the reason our club is losing is bullpen, injuries, and bad luck. If you want to blame Cox for putting this team together (I don’t), then that’s fine, I guess. In any case, PECOTA projected this team to win 87 games this season, so I’d say Bobby was on the right track. He (or better yet, Wren) did the best he could with the resources he had. We’ve been blindsided by injuries, some predicted, others unforseen, and bad luck. That’s why we’re losing. Not Bobby, not Wren, not Boyer.

Dead Horse:

At least that “website” supports their opinions with “facts” and “numbers” and “research” (I guess only those of us who live in our mothers’ basements can appreciate that, though). What do you support your ideas with? Prove to me that Bobby is a bad manager. Plain and simple. PROVE IT. I’m more than happy to admit when I’m wrong when someone shows me facts that don’t support my opinion. Heck, Bobby’s Cox, N8, and others have helped to convince me that Prado can be a good 2B. And I’m happy to admit that. But Bobby? Prove it, sir/madam.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Gotta’ side with JAMIEinRICHMOND on the COX debate. You plug in what you’ve got, but walks will kill you every time.

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Wayne, you’ll be missed, pal. Why must the classy ones leave and the mets fans return?

By McFann Ô

September 2, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Wayne—

You take care, too. I totally understand why you have to go. It cann get out of hand here. That’s why I don’t read every post—I just scan for issues that matter the most to me, if you know what I mean.

I’ll look out for that code name!

: )

By Braveheart

September 2, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

“It’s not what I expected,” Laird said. “I will say the team definitely has a decision to make. I’m kind of tired of dealing with this. I think they owe it to all of us to settle the situation. I want to have the opportunity to play without worrying about a young guy coming up and taking my job.”

Say what? Thanks for finding that McFann. What kind of putz is this Laird loser for saying that? In what world is he living in that he thinks anyone should be free from having someone take their job from them? First of all, he ain’t good enough to expect that he doesn’t have to compete for his job with every pitch that is throw in every single game he plays in. That’s not the world any of us live in. If any of us find a job where our performance matters so little that we are not in danger of losing our job at anytime, we should quit that job because that is a job not worth having. Laird ain’t long for this game with that ‘tude…. he can’t even handle the pressure of playing in a pressure free environment like a crappy Rangers team …. how is he ever gonna be tough enough to play for a team that’s actually good where every thing that happens on the field matters? That quote told me everything I need to ever know about Laird ………. they should just hand his job to someone else because he just forfeited the fight with that quote.

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Ummm, 16 runs and 21 hits, eh?

Hopefully we can win this game now!

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Kelly have a night. Well now they can win it’s not a one-run game anymore, in the ninth.

By Metropolitan Man

September 2, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond

Yeah since 05 he has been a MET, a Diamondback, a Marlin, an Indian, and now a brave……all in three years. He may have done well in the minors but his stock is at zero. I know the METS pen is wack, but what does that say about the braves pen who actually picked this guy up?

By McFann ;Ô;

September 2, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

BRAVES WIN!! BRAVES WIN!! BRAVES WIN!!

By Harry Brave

September 2, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

I was slightly off on my 18-17 prediction. Just goes to prove that it ALWAYS pays to go for 2 after a touchdown!

By Brett Butler fan

September 2, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! (I miss Skip.)

By Braveheart

September 2, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

BRAVES WIN!!!! TRAGIC NUMBER IS 7 :-(

By Jeff321

September 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Well, the Marlins announcer calls him the gyrating closer and Gonzo seals the deal! YEEEE HAAAAWW!!!

By Jake

September 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Dang it, I was only one run off, oh well at least we won.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH—

Seriously…Skedaddle, Mets fans!

Braveheart—

Wasn’t that awful? What a jerk. If you can’t take the heat, get outta the kitchen.

Night, all!

By Tomas

September 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

At last a win. But pitchers are just not pitching well. Morton, still being inconsistent, Boyer, and Ohman, are just too tired to be effective right now, and Buddy, Nuñez, Ridgeway, and Dessens are horrible, 4 pitchers who should be designated for assignment after this season is over. Right now the bulpen depends on, Bennet, Gonzo, and Julian. Julio is a possibility, at least he is better than Dessens, Buddy, Nuñez and Ridgeway.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

We will never get the prize #1 pick in the draft by winning. We need to at least match the feckless PIRATES with an 0-10 run. 4-6 in our last 10. Oh well, a #6 pick should net a good hitter. TAVAREZ once again showed up to play. 1.2 IP scoreless. Not many lines like that tonight. 16-14.? Whew. That’s the way to win games. I see MORTON took a step back. The beginning must have rattled him a bit. He IS a rookie after all.

By Rick

September 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

My main complaint with Bobby Cox is that he won’t change his batting order to take advantage of a hot hitter or to minimize the effect of a cold hitter. Now I don’t think you shuffle the batting order every other game- that’s not good for the players’ confidence . But if a player is in a prolonged slump , he knows the manager has to move him .

Compare Andrew Jones last year under Cox with this year under Joe Torre . Cox left him in the clean-up spot all year til Tex arrived . Under Torre , Jones was taken out of the clean-up spot in less than a month . By mid-season . he was on the bench .

Same with Frenchy this year . How long did it take Cox to drop him out of the 5 or 6 hole ( depending on lefty/righty pitcher ) down to 7 or 8 where he belonged ? Way too long .

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Well at least it was an entertaining win tonight.

The Braves play with a higher degree of confidence against the Marlins for some reason.

I’m really worried about Morton. I would like to think of him holding down the 5th spot in the rotation next season, but he and JoJo might need another season in the minors. Which increases the chances we’ll see Glavine and/or Hampton return along with JJ.

By ArkyTech

September 2, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

The streak wins on. Will we ever win a 1 run road game?

By Brett Butler fan

September 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Hey McFann! Looks like you and I think alike. BTW, I gave Bmac a 9.5 on that diving catch earlier!

By Steve from OH

September 2, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Good win tonight by los Bravos. Good debate from the denizens here on the blog. Night, all.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

RE: MORTON.

Too early to say too much McDOWELL not enough HANSEN.

By BravesFanChris23

September 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

WOW. What a game. Just wow.

By keylargo

September 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Rick

I have had enough arguing tonight to last a few days but I will ask you one question.

How do AJ’s stats compare last year to this year - you know theTorre way or the Cox way. Does that tell you anything about who gets what out of a player?

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

I think I see that Morton can pitch in the big leagues, but I also see enough that convinces me that he can still benefit from another season in the minors.

I understand that Smoltz and Glavine struggledearly on as most pitchers do, but the thought of Morton and JoJo both in the rotation next season makes me real nervous.

By bruce

September 2, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I have been primarily a reader of David and Carroll’s posts for several years and when I did read in much greater detail, I noticed that the blog seems to get most out of hand when David is not posting regularly. When he was posting often, he would either call people out or delete their posts. Also, the focus would be on what David was saying not so much on what bloggers were saying to each other.

Frankly I felt a bit sorry for Carroll coming in when David was off for a couple of days and she might not post as often as David… I thought it would get nasty, and I did cut back dramatically on reading as much detail as was previously reading. I did not feel that I could say much about it since I was not posting. Did not feel like saying anything would have credibility. But I did cringe more.

However, when I noticed your postings while scrolling, I frequently read them. Informed, tasteful, respectful come to mind as first adjectives. Worthy reads. Mostly after the fact, next day catch-up when David would check in with you or you would sign-off “early”….

I hope you will post when David is back to let him know your decision, not just send him and e-mail… I hope you will let him respond to you. Thank you. Bruce

By Carroll Rogers

September 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

chipper says knee isn’t serious, he’d be out maybe a day or two….he hurt it fielding a groundball then tried to hit in the cage and it hurt.

career high four hits for omar infante and kelly tonight.

By Kentavo

September 2, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Both Morton and Jo Jo can’t pitch with a big lead. Each time they get a little padding they immediately cough it back up - I can’t f*in’ stand it. At least Cox pulled Morton realitively early. But when Ross got the lead-off double, laidback Roger should been out on the mound immediately.

I said in an earlier post, yes this team is decimated by injuries but the manager has cost the team plenty of wins by his boneheaded and stubborn in-game decisions and non decisions.

I wish he’d get as ticked at his players as he does the umps - then we might see something.

I’m not saying he’s gotta rant and rave, but he needs to have these bullpen yahoos on shorter leashes - you give up a lead-off walk from the 7th inning on, you’re yanked. Send a message, pure and simple.

Tavarez has looked pretty good, outside of his first outing. He should be brought back for a reasonable fee.

Looks Ohman, however, is out of gas.

And Boyer never had any.

The bullpen for ‘09 has potential if: 1. Ohman is re=signed 2. Gonzo holds up 3. Tavarez stays strong 4. Jorge Julio finds the plate 5. Sorry-ano gives us anything 6. Ditto for Moylan 7. Ditto for Smoltz

Uh-oh, better get some more bullpen parts cuz we sure as heck don’t wanna see Boyer in 70-plus games again, and the likes of Matt DeSalvo, Jeff Ridgway, etc.

And for starters, can we please get some MLB caliber starters that can pitch with a lead and not cough it up by the one-two punchless punch of JoJo and Morton. Do these guys watch J. Jurggens pitch and learn anything?

I really hope Wren has learned something and doesn’t make a plan hinging on injured players coming back and fragile ones being counted on.

Those guys (insert injured pitcher’s name here) should be bonuses, not the meat of the lineup.

By my 2 cents

September 2, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Ok now, who among you thought the Braves would win this one? Its nice for the good guys to win one. HOLY COW!… and GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY.

By you tar

September 2, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

you tar

waxes and wains

land of rocks and logs

encased in fog

a big mist

a bigger mist

in you tar

By bruce

September 2, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

McFann Thanks for telling me what you knew about Mac…. I got so frustrated with listening to the Marlins announcers babble. I turned on gameday and watched the video broadcast to keep up better with what was going on. Kinda fun to see the result before the video plays… When Sammons came up to hit the first time, they babbled so long that they did not even mention his name until he was making the out and the inning was over. Their truck guys put up Sammons name and stats, part way through the at-bat and left it up waiting for them to comment, but had to take it down before they woke up…

Actually, tonight, I was listening to a couple of the convention speakers and missed some of the exciting final catchup til I heard my cell phone beeping from when the Marlins tied it up in the 8th and checked back in in time to watch Braves go ahead and see Gonzo have a Gonzo ninth. Anyway… i miss being able to watch home broadcasts on TBS… away broadcasters (except Vin Scully) are boorish and make watching even more difficult especially when we are losing. oops I must be writing in my diary again… scuse me please. anyway, thank you. :)

By NO MORE BOBBY

September 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

KEEP PLAYING THE YOUNG GUYS!!

Have not seen this kind of energy all season!!!

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

DAMN YOU TiVO!!!!

I knew this would happen. I didn’t know I was so far behind I was from real time. 10-9!?! What the hell happened?

… and I left two hours ago so now it’s midnight and they won.

But I knew it would happen and we still can’t win by a run.

Is anybody else just a little disappointed? I mean, come on, if we can’t win that game by a run we may never.

Gotta give it up to Julian and Julio down by the ballyard.

Gonzo is da man.

By bruce

September 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Wow it was nice to see some breaks go our way for a change… the check swing double and the foul balls that made the stands for us really stood out.

ok the streak is on… one more from the fish and then sweep the nats in retribution…. and we are on our way to a strong finish.

By kirknga

September 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Kentavo

I’ll take a healthy Acosta and Boyer over Tavarez and Julio any day.I don’t see either in the Braves’ pen next season.

I think people forget that both Acosta and Boyer pitched well for most of the season and remember only the bad outings. We also forget they have not only been asked to pitch more innings than they should’ve, but also in late inning roles they were not orginally asked to perform.

With a healthy Gonzalez, Moylan, and Soriano, and resigning of Ohman, Acosta and Boyer will be even more effect. Of course that would also assume starters who can go deeper into games, which is what makes Morton and JoJo suspect.

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

long night and morning is coming early tomorrow. don’t know what to say about that one folks….it was the first time since 1951 the braves have won a game while giving up 14 runs…

a couple quotes:

“It was insane,” said Kelly Johnson who was added to the lineup at the last minute and came through with a career-high matching four hits. “Everybody was joking about that on the bases at second or whether I was on base. ‘Man, you go up there with a bat tonight you’ve got a good chance of getting a hit tonight.’”

and charlie: “I was basically hanging on by a thread each inning,” said Morton, who tried scrapping the four-seam fastball and moving to the other side of the rubber. “The adjustments I made weren’t working. I couldn’t keep the ball in the zone.”

and bobby had nice things to say about how jorge julio pitched despite the leadoff walk and the run allowed. thought he had good stuff. and of course he had great things to say about tavarez. he’s did a great job of damage control in a game spinning out of it!!

nite all!

By Bama

September 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

bobby: The reason Josh Anderson has been in Richmond all year is Bobby Cox. He was not in the good ole boys club or BC favorite. Bobby’s Glory days are past history…time for change and I don’t mean TP. He!! no!

Come on Kid….

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

Compare Andrew Jones last year under Cox with this year under Joe Torre . Cox left him in the clean-up spot all year til Tex arrived . Under Torre , Jones was taken out of the clean-up spot in less than a month . By mid-season . he was on the bench

A much different situation for Torre this year and Cox last year. Torre had the benefit of seeing how bad Andruw was all of last year and how even worse he was this year.

Cox didn’t have the benefit of seeing that long trend last season. Cox had a guy who had a 50 homer year followed by a 40 homer year that included 120+ RBIs in each of the previous two seasons …….. and Andruw had a good April last season.

When was he supposed to pull him? Not in April. He was hitting good then. Not in May because why yank a star who had only one bad month ………. especially when McCann and Francoeur were not hitting that well then……….. maybe he should have yanked him in June but again McCann and Francoeur had numbers that were just about as bad as Andruw’s through about June 25th last season ………… then Druw got hot last July for a few weeks at the same time McCann and Frenchy got hot ……….. and then Tex came in and took the cleanup spot .

People b!tch all the time about Andruw not being yanked but they always conveniently forget how nonexistent the alternative cleanup options were at the time …… and they also forget his track record of being a very consistent inconsistent performer who always eventually put up his numbers

The next time you want to whine about the Druw cleanup thing from last season, actually go back and look at the stats and determine when Cox was supposed to make the move to Frenchy or McCann …….. you can’t and I’ve never seen anyone do a good job with it …… it’s usually just complaining for the sake of it ……..

no one ever points to a good alternative option Cox should have used at cleanup at the time based upon how people on the roster were actually performing ……. was Thorman the one you all wanted? ………….

if Cox had other good options, he would have yanked Andruw from the cleanup spot ………. he proved that when they got Tex ……….. before Tex, there were no other options …………. people also forget how reluctant Cox was to bat Druw cleanup before Druw earned the cleanup spot with his homer rampage in the summer of 2005 …….

I’m wasting my breath on that issue but the biggest problem last year before Tex came along wasn’t just that Andruw sucked …………. it was that Cox didn’t have any good alternatives to hit cleanup either

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Why does Wayne have to leave? I hope I’m not one of the ones that has upset him. He did tell me to stop being “teen” at one point which I thought was weird.

Because I’m not, but I guess he thought I was overreacting to something. And yet, why does he have to be so high and mighty? I’m just wondering what specifically it is that he had a problem with. Was it people criticising Bobby or each other or people using bad language? I mean, I use bad language but I edit myself.

I will say that I don’t like the guy who talks trash about Blaine Boyer. Ohhh, what’s the guy’s name?

Blaine Boyer has pitched too much, just like every other reliever but he’s had some solid performances. I still think the forshadowing moment of the season was the homerun he gave up in Colorado in the first road game of the season, the one we lost by a run. A 2-1 loss after 7 scoreless innings by the Glavster.

That definitely sucked. I had a bad feeling about that game and about the season. Nancy Johnson though, provided the fatal blow. But Boyer deserves a break.

Gotay’s my boy all the way. I guess I’m thankful that I stopped watching after the Braves went up 10-3 and then came back to see it was 10-9. And then later I discovered it was 14-13 and somehow I managed to stay the course.

Baseball Tonight clearly doesn’t want to touch that game. The Braves never make the damn Web Gems or top plays. It’s such a rip-off and if this was Red Sox/ A’s or Cubs/ Dodgers it would be the leading highlight. Oh, so Karl Ravech says it was the craziest game of the night so I guess it’s understandable that you would show it LAST!

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

The reason Josh Anderson has been in Richmond all year is Bobby Cox.

I hear ya. I hate the way that darn Bobby Cox has that longstanding tradition of discriminating against scrubby white fringe players like Woodward, Orr, Lockhart, Corky Miller ……. Maybe someday Bobby will stop hating on players that remind him of the fringe player he once was

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Buckey Showalter: Friend of Braves.

During the highlights they showed Norton’s at-bat and Showalter said, “in the paper tomorrow that’ll show up as a double.”

Yeah, because it was a double you dumba**! What, was he not deserving of a hit? Screw you.

I can’t stand these unprofessional ESPN analysts.

There should be a law against Steve Phillips ever appearing on TV again. How can one man be such an unbelievable homer?

Does anybody remember that he picked David Wright for NL MVP and Santana for Cy Young? I know I did and I know he’s a pathetic idiot.

And I heard SportsCenter anchor John Buccigross saying last week that Santana should be a Cy Young candidate. He’s 12-7. I actually emailed him to criticize him for saying that… which, for the record, was just about the lowest point of my life. He wrote me back and told me to look at the stats and that he’s right there with Brandon Webb. It’s either Webb, Lincecum, Sabathia or nobody. Not Santana for the love of God.

Pathetic. I’m pathetic.

Wayne may be gone forever but I only just started blogging on the ol’ Braves beat blog and I need to stop… for now at least. Come back Wayne.

Okay, I change my mind. I love SportsCenter (sarcasm). They’re showing the ‘86 World Series because the Mets starting pitcher was born the day they won the series. So what? Why would you do that other than relentless homerism? He went 3 innings.

“Imagine what his family would have done if he threw a complete game.”

Steve Levy, are you serious? Why would I “imagine” that. Why would you say that? He just pitched 3 innings, not 9. Let’s do that again. He’s a nobody who pitched 3 innings. Why then didn’t you say the same about Charlie Morton? Because there would be no reason to and because he’s a Brave, of course.

And then John Anderson just said the same thing about Norton’s double. A double is a double people. Did the Marlins somehow get cheated? WTF?

I need to stop. I need help.

Go Braves.

By Sigmund Fraud

September 3, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

Last one out, please turn off the lights! (Cy Young gotta be Webb!)

By wayne

September 3, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Mitchell,

It was not you man. You are OK dude. (lay off the politics, if you are smart).

It was the establishment allowing and condoning vulgar trash talking about women….this is supposed to be a baseball blog, not a college frat house.

By Blaine Boyer is a useless vat of goo

September 3, 2008 3:01 AM | Link to this

I will say that I don’t like the guy who talks trash about Blaine Boyer. Ohhh, what’s the guy’s name?

Gimme a “G”. Gimme an “O”. Gimme another “O”.

What’s that spell?

What’s that spell?

What’s that spell?

Goo’ night. Sleep tight. Don’t let Blaine Boyer bite.

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

September 3, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, blah blah blah. Your ignorance is impressive.

Cox didn’t pull Andruw and he wouldn’t sit Francoeur. The man made the same exact mistake twice. It’s truly pathetic to watch Bobby slip up and crew up again and again. The man puts to much faith in the players and not enough foot up their arse’s.

Stop defending the old fart, you’re just making it more obvious.

And Josh Anderson, the youngster is a gazelle in cleats. Speed kills, it never takes the day off, it does not slump and it drives opposing managers crazy.

Whitey Herzog was a damn Genius.

Word to the wise, three of the best lead off hitter in all of baseball are in our own division. Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins and Hanley Ramirez. The Braves had better get with the damn program and join the 21st century because our own division has left us in the dust.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

The braves decline began after Leo Mazzone left….Just an observation from a Mets fan.Sniper

Actually, the team ERA began slipping right after the Braves reduced payroll, while Leo was still here. After an incredible run of finishing first or second in the NL every year in ERA from 1992 to 2002 (first nine times, second twice in that span), the Braves slipped to ninth in 2003 and sixth in 2005. McDowell arrived in 2006.

This fact is conveniently overlooked or ignored by those who would have you believe it was simply the change in pitching coaches that led to the falloff, not anything to do with a payroll that went from top 5 (and often top 3) in all of baseball to middle of the pack.

The Braves kept winning division titles for a few more years after the payroll was slashed because they still had a couple of decent, healthy starting pitchers for a couple more years after the payroll was cut, and — this is important — because they still had some veteran sluggers in their lineup and Smoltz anchoring the bullpen for a few years.

Take a look at Russ Ortiz’s overall numbers while he won 36 games for the Braves during the 2003-04 seasons for Atlanta with an ERA of just below 4.00 in that span. With run support like Ortiz got, Smoltz would have won 18-20 games for the Braves in 2006 and again in 2007. Jurrjens could have won 18 this season with that kind of run support.

(Seriously, Ortiz was 36-16 with a 3.97 ERA those two seasons, but he got 5.83 support runs per nine innings pitched. Smoltz was 27-17 with a 3.31 ERA during the 2006-2007 seasons, with 5.16 support runs per nine innings. Smoltz had an ERA that was .66 lower than Ortiz in a two-year span, while Ortiz had run support that was .67 higher per nine innings in his 36-16 two-year span.)

And if he’d had a closer like Smoltz (instead of Wickman), Hudson could’ve won 18 or 20 in 2007.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 3:50 AM | Link to this

Miitchell, even worse than Buccigross suggesting Santana should be a serious Cy Young candidate (did he really say that?) was one of the ESPN First Take regulars saying today that he would vote for Dice-K over 20-2 Cliff Lee for AL Cy Young. I just about fell on the floor. His rationale? Lee hadn’t done enough to lift his team into the playoffs.

I mean, it’s not even worth arguing with someone who’d look at Dice-K’s numbers — fewer wins than Lee, more losses than Lee, higher ERA than Lee, far more walks than Lee and fewer strikeouts than Lee — and come to the conclusion that Dice-K deserves the Cy Young.

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

September 3, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this

Incomplete answer, O’Brien.

It just isn’t that simple. Cox delegated all the authority to Leo Mazzone when it came to the pitching. Leo said who, what, when , where and how high to jump. PERIOD.

Roger McDowell hasn’t been given the the same responsibility. The Evidence is right in front of your face. Atlanta’s bullpen is about to top 500 innings for the third season in a row. Is it just coincidence that this coincides with the defection of Leo Mazzone? I think not.

Is it just happenstance that pitchers are headed to Dr.Andrews at an unprecedented rate? I don’t think so.

It’s the impatience and stubbornness of Bobby Cox shining through like a firefly in the night.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 4:14 AM | Link to this

It just isn’t that simple. Cox delegated all the authority to Leo Mazzone when it came to the pitching. Leo said who, what, when , where and how high to jump. PERIOD.Coach

Oh, so you’re actually a coach on this Braves staff? My bad. I had no idea. Thus, you’ve been in on the meetings and know how the responsibilities have been delegated and all that. We’ll defer to you going forward.

Kaboom.

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

September 3, 2008 5:47 AM | Link to this

Nope, All I have for proof is about 150 VHS game tapes stashed in the closet that say exactly so.

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this

And Josh Anderson, the youngster is a gazelle in cleats. Speed kills, it never takes the day off, it does not slump and it drives opposing managers crazy.

You’re right. Gaithright, Taveras, Bourn, Pierre never slump and always kill and drive their own managers crazy. I see your point. Word to Alex Cole.

Whitey Herzog was a damn Genius.

You mean the genius that was 1-2 in the World Series? You mean the genius that was only 3-3 in the LCS? You mean the genius that had a losing record in 4 of his last 8 seasons in St. Louis? You mean the genius that failed to win 90 games in 6 of his last 8 seasons?

Anderson, while fast, ain’t the kind of overall impactful baseball player that Tommy Herr, Ozzie Smith, Terry Pendleton, Vince Coleman, Lonnie Smith, Van Slyke, and Willie McGee were. Those were special players.

Sorry but Anderson ain’t that kind of special ……… he’s merely a fun player teams put out there as a stopgap when they can’t do any better because they stink. He’s also the type of player that is quickly disposed of when they get good and find a more productive alternative. Maybe he’s the next Luis Polonia, That’s nothing to be ashamed about. It’s too bad though that I never heard anyone call Polonia a killer.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

Good God is Bobby the team trainer and conditioning coach too? You guys (actually, Coach) are placing way too much emphasis on a managers’ impact. Because a manager simply isn’t that important, in the grand scheme of things.

You know why Cox doesn’t do things like bunt, steal, or hit-and-run all that often? Because these are generally poor strategies, best used only late in games when you need exactly one run. Granted, bunting with a pitcher isn’t stupid, but you get my point.

You think you can do better? Fine, you choose who pitches the eigth: Julio, Dessens, Nunez or Tavarez. Can you find the “correct” choice from that bunch? I can’t.

By Turnin2

September 3, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Leo Mazzone is the cure-all for this team’s ERA/health is in serious need of help… Leo has to never been able to relate to a young pitching staff and never will… and everyone realizes you can only do so much with hand-me-down pitchers. With such a limited payroll he knew that’s pretty much all he’d have to work with - so got out when the times got hard. Leo simply jumped ship when the gravy train was running out - when his coaching abilities would be called upon. Which is pretty much an oxymoron…

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Leo has to never been able to relate to a young pitching staff and never will

How about 1991? Only two Braves pitchers over the age of 25 started games that season. 11 of the 20 pitchers the Braves used that season were under 30.

I do agree though that Mazzone probably wouldn’t make a significant difference.

By Saltywoody

September 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Carroll, DOB, et al

Quick, random question. When a player begins the year in the minors AA or AAA or whatever, and then is called up to the majors, how do they figure out his salary?

I guess I’m asking what does a typical AA or AAA player make, versus the major league minimum, and do they prorate his salary based on that and the time he spends with the big club? Just curious…

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Whitey Herzog was a damn Genius.

Hmm…Herzog led both an American League team and a National League team to the playoffs, his overall record is well over .500, he won one World Series title. Sound familiar? Who would criticize a manager with a better resume than the manager that he calls a “damn genius”?

By proeye

September 3, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Can we stop with worrying about the one run road losses? A loss is a loss period. You all are just looking at a statistical fluke made out to be something significant. Could be just bad luck this year and it could be just a bad bullpen. However anyone looks at it, clearly, this team needs an overhaul.

By Turnin2

September 3, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

I didn’t say he never had young pitchers on staff, I said he never related to young pitchers… qoute stats all you want but bottom line is Leo left when he knew HIS luck had run out…

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

You know what all of Whitey Herzog’s good teams did better than other offenses? They got on base more often or slugged better or both.

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Hmm…Herzog led both an American League team and a National League team to the playoffs, his overall record is well over .500, he won one World Series title. Sound familiar? Who would criticize a manager with a better resume than the manager that he calls a “damn genius”?

Stop using logic Shaun……..

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Turnin2, is “relating to young pitchers” a criterion for the job? I guess that depends on what you mean by “relate.”

Leo was the pitching coach of possibly the best staff of all-time. Now, I certainly agree that he doesn’t deserve all the credit or even most of the credit. But you seem to imply that Leo would make a young staff worse because his “coaching abilities” weren’t any good. But it’s hard to argue Leo made the Braves’ early 1990s staff worse.

If it’s true that he left when he knew his luck had run out, why didn’t he leave after 2003 when the Braves’ pitching staff was very mediocre? Or right after they traded Kevin Millwood because of the economics of the game? Leo left because he had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to work with his best friend in his hometown. I think it’s as simple as that.

I think we are in agreement that Mazzone wouldn’t be a magic cure for any pitching issues the Braves may have and that McDowell shouldn’t be let go in favor of Mazzone. But you seem to be arguing Mazzone wasn’t effective.

By proeye

September 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Some of you appear to need a little education.

The only reason you feel that the Braves staff didn’t need surgeries back in the day like they do now was because they had Maddux and Glavine pitching most of those years. You all know they had rubber arms! They never went on the disabled list and the Braves were very fortunate. Clearly, something can be said for acquiring players who can actually make it on the field (that’s a hint to management)

But look at Smoltz… How many surgeries has this man had in his career? I’ve lost track. Is it four? Think about the longevity of every other fourth and fifth starter the Braves have had over the years and what happened to them. Many of you are only looking at two guys and declaring the Braves to have been injury free. Not so my friends.

Anyway… Surgery is not necessarily a bad thing if they can be coordinated. Look at the success rate in this modern age: It seems that many pitchers come back even stronger afterwards. So my thinking is that teams tend to pull the trigger sooner than they used to. Many injuries used to be career threatening so they would do everything they could to rehabilitate a dead arm before resorting to the knife. Now they just get out the scalpel and figure that it’s going to get better despite the long time on the disabled list.

Now it seems that the Braves have coordinated the surgeries (except for Hudson of course) so maybe by opening day or a few months into it, they appear to have the potential for some good “parts” coming back. They still need two big time pitchers but the bull pen may be okay with Soriano coming back, Moylan coming back sometime in April or May if things go well, and Gonzalez possibly being at full strength next year. Just think of the potential this team has with these three! Man, keep your fingers crossed that things work out for all of them…

Who knows, maybe it will even work out for Anthony Lerew. Obviously we aren’t going to be building a team around this guy but he should be due to pitch again in spring training and could contribute.

I have a feeling that the Braves may be depending on Glavine and Smoltz again. The chances of them getting two big time starters next year is pretty close to zero with 29 other teams wanting the same thing and many of them with far more resources than the Braves. With this team’s past penchant for spending little and forgoing big free agents, I seriously doubt they are going to do anything. With two repaired starters who only want to play for the Bravos, are they just going to ignore them? Hah! I don’t think so.

By proeye

September 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Leo didn’t leave because his luck ran out. He left for two reasons: 1) Because a significant job opening came up and 2) because Bobby Cox couldn’t stand him and I imagine probably got sick and tired of him getting all the credit for one of the greatest pitching staffs in history. It was the organization and the fact that the team had 3 Hall of Fame pitchers, one of which will be regarded as one of the top 10 greatest of all time. AND! Other than Smoltz, a big contributing factor was lack of time on the disabled list. Maddux and Glavine were able to pitch at maximum effectiveness for more than a decade at the same time on the same team. Many pitchers lose effectiveness simply because their arms have taken a beating. Many pitchers never realized their potential because of this.

I think we all need to knock Leo down about 5 notches. He may have been good for the Braves for awhile but frankly, Hall of Fame coaches should be good anywhere. He did absolutely ZERO for the Orioles. His talent could not have just evaporated the day he arrived in Baltimore.

By Braveheart

September 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

I think the quotes DOB got from Smoltz last year about Mazzone were very insightful on some of the issues being discussed today:

You’ve seen this organization turn over a lot of people. Everybody has had a huge impact. He [Mazzone] had a huge impact, but his time … it was probably best to move on. For whatever reason. “Leo is a mechanical guy. He was good at mechanics. But Leo would admit, he wasn’t going to teach you how to pitch. He wasn’t going to show you how to get hitters out. That wasn’t his forte. And I think with the emergence of some young pitchers, they needed a little bit more. They needed to be able to pitch with what they had. He was so used to great stuff, that it was probably difficult - it would have been difficult for me [in his shoes] — to see someone not have particularly great stuff. “Everybody that’s been through here, with the exception of Bobby, who’s been here the same time, everybody had something to add. But as times have changed, the game has changed. The strike zone has changed, You have to adapt. And I think the adaptability was difficult for [Mazzone’s] mindset, and a younger mindset. “I think that, more or less, to be fair about it, that’s what became difficult…. Take an older player, someone who’d had success — they’d have success [again under Mazzone]. But the younger player who was struggling with certain components of what we were trying to do — you now, if you’re talented enough that you can hit down-and-away and down-and-away and down-and-away [in the strike zone], you can fit it [with Mazzone]. “But if you can’t, you’ve got to find a way to adjust to him, as a player.”

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Brett Butler fan—

Love that “Braves win” line! I get goose-bumps every time they show that—obviously, I’ve only ever seen the replays. I was around when it really happened, but way too young to know what was going on—prob’ly wasn’t even awake.

That was a great catch by BMac. If they woulda been at Turner Field, we mighta heard some Superman music!

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Bruce—

You’re welcome! I found this on the Braves website this morning:

Brian McCann was taken out of the game in the fourth inning after being hit on the shoulder with a foul ball because Cox wanted him to catch in the day game on Wednesday.

So he’ll be back in there today, it looks like.

Those Marlins announcers sound really obnoxious! I wish, for the sake of you out-of-town fans, that TBS wouldn’t have dumped the Braves!

We missed the end of the game due to the RNC, too. But my sister and I watched the Gameday. That’s not quite the same, though…

oops I must be writing in my diary again… scuse me please. anyway, thank you.

Oh, yeah, you better watch that… : ) Keep up the good bloggin’!

By Turnin2

September 3, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

OK - I give up Shaun, you are - as always - 100% right… had nothing to do with anything - sorry Leo is the best and we’d be on our way to a WS if he were still here… has nothing to do with lack of budget, change in ownership etc from the years you mentioned…

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Look at Smoltz… How many surgeries has this man had in his career? I’ve lost track. Is it four?Proeye

Five, including the shoulder surgery this season. He had four elbow surgeries, all before McDowell was his pitching coach.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

In addition to the good points Shaun made about Herzog’s teams, I’d also add that he built St. Louis teams around speed in large part because they played so many games on artificial turf, where that speed could be fully exploited. Eliminate old-school, hard-surface artificial turf — they played on it in home games, plus in many road parks — and that speed wouldn’t have been quite as effective. (Though most of his key players were well-rounded players who could do everything, not just run.)

He had some guys who could slap the ball on the turf and shoot it through gaps or get it deep enough on the edge of the infield to beat out hits, setting the table for big innings or keeping innings alive. Those who are old enough to remember how baseball was played on the old turf, you know it was a bit of a different game, as played by some speedy teams.

By dannycardwell

September 3, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

every time i hear people here talking about the braves limited payroll i laugh.if a 90 million dollar payroll is limited then why are the rays on top of the world with a 24 million dollar budget? the answer is wise spending good scouting. pitching should always come first on any team. if you have 5 starters averaging 7 innings a start you have a chance to win every day. an overtaxed bullpen will always spell disaster. our last gm along with bobby cox built a 10 year dynasty with 3 of the best starters in baseball. spending money in excess only raises the ticket prices. if you give an idiot lots of money to spend he will surely blow it. ask the yankees. they bought a lot of championships but even they couldnt spend enough the last few years to go anywhere. i would rather take my lumps for a year or 2 and build a good pitching foundation than keep trying to buy a division by giving away all the talent in the farm system. it all comes down to common sense. apparantly the braves brass doesnt have any along with arthur blank and the owners of the hawks.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Turnin2, did you read the part in my post agreeing that Mazzone is no magician? You are putting words in my mouth. Never said the Braves would be on their way to the Series with Mazzone. We agree on the major points about Leo. What I was arguing against is that Mazzone somehow can’t “relate” to young pitchers and was basically worthless when it came to actually coaching. He certainly didn’t hinder the young pitchers in the early 1990s and led a great staff. Doesn’t mean he deserves all the credit. Just that he doesn’t deserved to be dumped on. I think there is extremism on both sides in Atlanta with regard to Mazzone.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Herzog’s teams certainly used speed and certainly speed is helpful even in today’s game. But to say “speed kills, doesn’t slump, etc.” is rather simplistic.

Getting on base and gaining bases is, always has been and always will be how to build a good offense. Speed helps gain bases and get on base. But without some other abilities at the plate, all the speed in the world isn’t going to help a team.

By Mitch

September 3, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

The reason we are where we are this year is the injuries to Glavine, Smoltz, and Hudson, period. If Smoltz had given us the 200 innings and 15 wins he normally does, instead of the three he actually did, Tommy had given us the 12 or 13 wins he gave the Mets in two of the last three years,instead of two wins, and Hudson had finished the season, and won 15 games, then you add 25 wins to this year’s total, and guess what? 90 to 92 wins and a division, or at worst a wild card. We never would have traded Tex for Kotchman, and we would be fighting into September now playing playoff bound baseball.

As for what to do: With Hudson gone until next August, we need at least one starting pitcher, and maybe two. As much as I’d love to see Tom and John re sign for one more year if they are able, what can they give us at ages 43 and 42, respectively? I really dont know what to do with Hampton. How can you justify giving him a big contract, even if he finishes strong, after missing nearly three years? That being said, if Glavine and Smoltz leave, he might be worth the risk of a one year deal with an option for a second.

We need at least two starting pitchers, and a center fielder. We could also use some bullpen help. I think that Gonzalez is likely our closer next year, if we can re sign him. As for Soriano, maybe we should let him go.

I dont know what we will look like next year. My guess is we wont win the division, but I also dont think we will be the 90 plus loss disaster we are this year. I’ll bet that Frank and Bobby will make some moves, and that if we stay healthy, we will win 80 odd games and fight for the wild card. I also think we need one more power bat in the lineup to go along with Chipper and Mccann. Kotchman wont hit 30 homers, and it seems to me that those guys need some protection. Hopefully, we will do some big free agent shopping this winter, for two starting pitchers, at least, and a bat.

 Mitch

By Lew

September 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

DannyCardwell-Maybe the Rays are where they are (FINALLY) because of all of the years they had the first or second pick in the ML draft. The bigger question is why did it take them this long to succeed?

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

dannycardwell, I don’t think people are using the payroll as an excuse just a reason.

The Braves obviously were a contender every season from 1991-2007. The curse of being a contender is that you can’t trade your most useful veteran players at the deadline to re-load on young talent.

Also, when you are a good team for a decade and a half, you aren’t going to get the high, low-risk draft picks.

It’s quite amazing the Braves were able to avoid the negative consequences of their success earlier in the decade. One of the major reasons they were is because of a large payroll.

By Timothy Leary

September 3, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

The title of this blog begins with the word

HATE

bummer, man.

LOVE

not hate.

By Ryan

September 3, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

LATE BREAKING NEWS!!!!

Chipper Jones was a late scratch from tonights game due to menstural crams and a crack in his a$$! He is day to day.

By TommyP

September 3, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

DOB: Great points on the Herzog-led Cards.

Question for ya….Do you feel that with testing for performance-enhancing drugs and not having as many Herculean-type players anymore (at least not what we used to have) that we will see a change BACK to that type of baseball? (as in more small ball, higher emphasis on speed/steals, etc.)

I LOVED watching that Cards team play. Coleman was worth the price of admission.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun makes a really nice point at 10:47. Speed is great, sure, but getting on base is much better. Speed is sort of accessory to that, in a way. Josh Anderson (who I like), for all of his speed, managed to post a career OBP of .340 in the minors, which is pretty average. So what kills more, a fast guy with an OBP of .340 and a very low SLG or a guy with a career .360 OBP and much higher SLG? I think you already know the answer.

Besides, while stolen bases are great, they are only useful (over a long period of time) when utilized correctly. In all reality, if a guy doesn’t have better than a 75% success rate, he shouldn’t be stealing all that often, no matter how fast he is.

By David O'Brien

September 3, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

We need at least two starting pitchers, and a center fielder. We could also use some bullpen help. I think that Gonzalez is likely our closer next year, if we can re sign him. As for Soriano, maybe we should let him go.Mitch

You made a couple other good points, but not so much in this paragraph.

In reverse order: “Let him go” is your thinking on Soriano? Mitch, the Braves owe him $6.1 mill next year, the second year of a two-year, $9 mill contract. He just had elbow surgery, expected to be ready for spring training. And you’re thinking Braves should maybe just “let him go?” Am I missing something here? So you’d just pay him the $6.1 mill and let him go pitch for someone else, for another team that would only need to pay him the minimum salary while the Braves pay him $6.1 mill? Or do you actually think another team would trade for a closer who is coming back from elbow surgery, before he even shows he’s healthy in the spring?

Gonzalez is under Braves’ contractual control next season. He’s eligible for arbitration, not a free agent….

As for center field: There are three outfield positions, and in my opinion center is the least of the Braves’ concerns, behind LF and RF. Between the trio of options that Schafer, Anderson and Blanco provide, they can go with what they’ve got in center and focus on fixing bigger problems.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Mitch, really nice post at 10:56. I think we should prioritize getting a power bat for left field over getting a new centerfielder (Schafer and Anderson are both fine with me), but I think your analysis was pretty close to the truth.

Also, I’m not so sure about getting rid of Soriano. I mean, he’s under contract next season….

By DAP

September 3, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

dannycardwell the rays have been taking lumps for alot longer than just a few years. the extremly low budget means you might get lucky every now and then, and all the goodplayers are soon gone. please dont wish the braves to be like that.

By DAP

September 3, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

mitch gonzalez is still nuder team control. the braves will be able to sign him, and soriano wont be released, since he is owed $6mil in 2009. we need to hope he is healed next year.

By Kentavo

September 3, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Denizens, look at what D.O.B. said in regards to Mazzone and pitching.

High priced guys like Maddux and Glavine departed.

But things were held together a few more years with additions of Hudson, Hampton, Ortiz, Thompson and return of Smoltz to rotation.

While not world-beaters, there’s a whole heckuva lotta difference in Ortiz, Thompson and healthy Hampton than say the parade of inexperienced arms that have been turned to, from Chucky to Davies to LeRew to Jo Jo to Morton and so on.

Had the Braves had one more dependable starter each of the last three years, a playoff berth would have been almost certain.

Jurggens and Campillo are the only ones who perform as if they “get it.” They’re not always effective, but they give you the impression they know what they’re doing on the mound as opposed to the wide-eyed deer-in-the-headlights looks of Morton and the expressionless JoJo.

By Random

September 3, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Coach: “Speed kills, it never takes the day off, it does not slump and it drives opposing managers crazy.”

Yunel Escobar: 2 SB; 5 CS; 29%

Willie Harris (2007): 17 SB, 11 CS; 61%

Ryan Theriot: 21 SB; 13 CS; 62%

Corey Patterson: 13 SB; 9 CS; 59%

Hunter Pence: 8 SB; 9 CS; 47%

Melvin Mora: 3 SB; 7 CS; 30%

Alexei Ramirez: 10 SB; 8 CS; 56%

David DeJesus: 10 SB; 7 CS; 59%

Miguel Tejada: 7 SB; 7 CS; 50%

Jay Bruce: 3 SB; 6 CS; 33%

Bill Hall: 4 SB; 6 CS; 40%

Reed Johnson: 5 SB; 6 CS; 45%

Felipe Lopez: 7 SB; 6 CS; 54%

Ty Wigginton: 4 SB; 6 CS; 40%

Seems to me like these fellas’ speed has slumped, and/or taken more than a few days off. I’d also wager that their own managers are a bit farther along the crazy curve than any of their opponents’ managers.

Statistical studies have shown that you need to have a 75%-80% success rate to make SBs worth more than their attendant CSs.

Steve from OH: “You know why Cox doesn’t do things like bunt, steal, or hit-and-run all that often? Because these are generally poor strategies, best used only late in games when you need exactly one run. Granted, bunting with a pitcher isn’t stupid, but you get my point.”*

You got it, buddy — I couldn’t agree more, and couldn’t have said it betterer.

By Lew

September 3, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Kentavo-All the pitchers you mentioned that kept us going were experienced, veteran pitchers. All of those who you are denigrating are young, first or second year pitchers (Lerew would STILL be a rookie if he were healthy). Somewhat of a difference, don’t you think?

Imagine that-Rookie pitchers getting lit up. When did things like that start happening?

By Thrillhouse44

September 3, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Here’s an article about the 1993 pennant race with the Giants. Short, but fun article hitting on McGriff and Avery. SI.com’s vault

By chris

September 3, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Does Tavarez get a shot at making the team next year? Also, Boyer, Ohman, and even Caryle have had awful 2nd halves. Boyer and Ohman have been overused much like Soriano last year. I know there is no way of predicting this but are they in danger of having arm problems next year like Soriano had this year? I also read Gaylord Perry say that often arm problems come from throwing too much in the off-season. Do Braves pitchers typically shut it down in the offseason?

Curious,

Chris from MD

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Just got back from the dentist…ugh…If there’s one thing I despise more than the Fillies, Cubs, and Mets…

Anyway, check out the Major League typo in this sentence from a piece on foxsports.com:

Three short years ago, the Atlanta Braves won their 11th consecutive division title and were a dominant force in the NL.

By Kentavo

September 3, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Lew, that is what I said - there’s a big difference between experienced pitchers and rooks.

We had experienced pitchers, now we don’t, so the drop-off is to be expected (but is more the fault of penny penching owners than anything else).

By Random

September 3, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

DOB: “one of the ESPN First Take regulars [said] today that he would vote for Dice-K over 20-2 Cliff Lee for AL Cy Young. I just about fell on the floor. His rationale? Lee hadn’t done enough to lift his team into the playoffs.”

“I mean, it’s not even worth arguing with someone who’d look at Dice-K’s numbers — fewer wins than Lee, more losses than Lee, higher ERA than Lee, far more walks than Lee and fewer strikeouts than Lee — and come to the conclusion that Dice-K deserves the Cy Young.”

I think even more impressive is Lee’s over 7 IP per start (vice Daisuke’s less than 6 IP/start), and his WHIP (~1.05 v ~1.33 for DM).

The real argument is between Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay, who matches or betters all of Lee’s stats mentioned here except for ERA & W/Ls. 8 complete games; over 7.5 IP per start; 178 Ks.

PS: (Both Lee and Matsuzaka currently have two losses.)

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

11? what are they smoking at FOX?

WTF did Wayne get fed up last night?

McFann—lol—you have the cubs in there? maybe cause of Soto or their disgusting cheating fans?

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting tidbit for MLBTR: The Braves are eyeing a Japanese pitcher named Junichi Tazawa. Dierkes linked this site which provided a little bit of info on the guy. Looks good to me, but of course you don’t know the quality of the competition.

By Lew

September 3, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Chris-Boyer had shoulder surgery and missed the entire 06 season. This is his first full season back from his injuries. He rehabbed a bit of last year.

Ohman has pitched a minimum of 56 games (and as many as 78) each of the last four years. The workload is nothing new for him.

By DAP

September 3, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

speaking of shutting down…does anybody else think the braves might should shut down a few pitchers for september? i think they should consider shutting down morton, jurjens, boyer, and seriously limiting ohman the rest of the way.

lets not hurt our future chances. seriously, if we have to replace morton and jurjens bennett and carlyle, do it. they can handle it for 4 more starts each.

By N Nine

September 3, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Some of you folks are SOLD on Tavarez! I will credit him with good outings recently but he is not our answer for 09. He is a ticking time-bomb waiting to explode. But some just look at 2 or 3 outings and are blind- sighted.JUST SAY NO

Now Hanna, Ike & Josephine??—good lord its getting crazy over the warm waters.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Do you feel that with testing for performance-enhancing drugs and not having as many Herculean-type players anymore (at least not what we used to have) that we will see a change BACK to that type of baseball? (as in more small ball, higher emphasis on speed/steals, etc.)

My two cents: With people actually checking out the facts on the value of steals and power, etc. I think the game has changed out of necessity. I think teams now more than ever realize that speed is valuable only if players can avoid being caught stealing at a certain rate, that power is the quickest way to gain bases, that “athleticism” is secondary to other skills in baseball, and that getting on-base is vitally important.

By Steve from OH

September 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DAP, that’s a good point about shutting down some pitchers. I really don’t think it’s a good idea to jump Jair from 143 innings to 180+ this season (he’s at 165 right now)…It might be a good idea to give Boyer a few nights off, as well. I dunno about Morton, though, I’d like to see him (and JoJo) get more work up here at the major-league level.

By 22oz

September 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

McFann,Perhaps that 11th straight title refers to the fact that it was 11 titles back to 1995, and their was no title won in 1994. Or it could just be a typo.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Random, what’s amazing to me is that no one seems to suggest that the Cy Young should go to a pitcher on a contender but people do it with the MVP all the time. I don’t understand the difference. Both are individual awards and you shouldn’t punish or reward individuals for the play of his teammates.

By McFann ;Ô;

September 3, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Well, yeah…Grove, the obnoxious fans (all of their fans that I’ve been around are annoying except my Grandparents)…And the fact that the Braves couldn’t beat them this year to save their fannies—those are all factors. But Grove is my #1 nemesis.

I don’t know what shoe they scraped 11 off of.

Wayne popped off last night because of an apparent vulgar conversation on a previous blog last week. Can’t say I blame him, though I didn’t read any of said conversation.

By Carroll Rogers

September 3, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

morning….or should say afternoon…..i appreciate that DOB has jumped on here and engaged you guys on some things from overnight. (3 a.m. geez!)…i’ve been firing away trying to get all my stuff done so i can get on a plane tonight.

but i’ve just turned in a new blog, so feel free to jump over there shortly

By DAP

September 3, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

this guy tazawa apparently throws 144 kilomiles an hour. 1 kilomiles of course is 1000 miles, so if you convert it, he throws 144,000 mph. sign him now.

By DAP

September 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

steve from OH * I dunno about Morton, though, I’d like to see him (and JoJo) get more work up here at the major-league level.*

keep in mind that the most innings jojo has ever pitched is 160. he is currently at 105. jojo should be able to make all his starts the rest of the year without even passing last year’s total.

morton, on the other hand, is at 119 innings. this is 40 innings more than last year. now, he pitched 124 innings all the way back in 2005 5 more innings and he has matched it. that is his most ever, but it was awhile ago. i wouldnt ride him much longer.i send him out there maybe 2 more times,let him get 10 or 12 more innings, and then shut him down.

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rogers,

How come we never get to see a photo of you or DOB in the paper?

For the longest time I kept picturing Jeff Scultz when I would hear O’Brien on the radio until I eventually realized they were two different people.

You beat writers get no love apparently.

If it’s possible to seem attractive from your words alone, well, I would say you do.

Okay, now I just sound like a creep. Who am I kidding? I am a creep.

But hey, guys always like girls who are into sports.

I’m gonna stop before I embarrass myself further.

By Shaun

September 3, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

New blog is officially up.

By Mitchell

September 3, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Wayne told me not to be politcal, probably good advice. I can respect that, I just had to put it out there at least once.

I know people don’t really like talking politics and with that in mind I was hoping I could talk to you all now about Jesus.

Kidding.

I meant to say Jeff. Hang in there Jeff. He’ll get it back.

And a double play by Yunel to start the game. I think I’ve seen this one already.

By Goodoleboy58

September 3, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Regarding Cliff Lee and Dice K for the CY Young… As a Braves fan this year we know how important it is for the pitcher to go atleast 7innings.. Cliff Lee has done that 17 times including 5 times he pitched 9 innings.

Dice K 7 times he’s pitched atleast 7 innings and only twice did he go his seaon high of 8 innings.

By john hoar

September 3, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I don’t post much. Figure I don’t have a lot to add but heaps to learn. I skip over a bunch of posts after reading the name, but there are also a bunch that I read every word of. Yours is one of those. I sincerely hope that you change your mind and continue. Or at worst, take a break and then come back. Regardless, we will miss you greatly.

By Tom

September 6, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

DOB, would I be out of my mind to say that the Braves might look to acquire three legit starting pitchers this winter? I could easily see where two mid-tier signings (like, say, Ryan Dempster and Derek Lowe) and a trade for a younger, controllable guy could fit into the payroll, even if you say that space has to be left for a big-stick left fielder.

And no, I’m not tearing down the options that we already have, like Reyes or Morton or Hanson…I like them…A LOT. It just seems to me that it would be nice to have a full rotation without them, and it also seems to me that money might not prohibit such a situation.

But then again, those kind of shake-em-up moves aren’t characteristic of the Braves (that’s a comment, not a criticism). So I guess what I’m asking is am I crazy to hope for three new starters come next April?