Braves

By Billsnv

August 27, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Go Braves!! Thanks DOB!

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

For those interested, Hanson, Medlen, Marek, Flowers, Deunte Heath, Van Pope and Brandon Jones are playing in the Arizona Fall League this fall.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Braves signed 37-year-old pitcher Elmer Dessens. He’ll be here tomorrow, and will be activated this weekend probably, though he could be activated as soon as tomorrow if, say, the Braves go 15 innings tonight and need pitching.

He struggled with Milwaukee and Colorado last season and pitched for something called the Mexico City Red Devils this year after being released by Pittsburgh at the end of spring training.

By Wayne in Utah

August 27, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

I admit, I am a little disappointed about not seeing Schafer, Hanson or Medlen this September. BUT, I guess I understand the reasoning.

My biggest Braves concern as the season winds down is the health/status of our starters. ALL of our guys have struggled lately. Campillo, JJ, Reyes, Morton, etc.

Who do we have on the 40 man, who we could bring up to give those guys a small break?? Bennett probably isn’t stretched out enough. Maybe Carlyle? How about Lerew or James.

At this point, we need to make sure we don’t do anything to jeopardize the “arm” health of our young starters.

If Anderson is in the park, I don’t know why BC couldn’t switch out Blanco for Anderson. Give the kid a chance to jump right into the fire!

As best I can tell, we really don’t have another first baseman, without making a roster adjustment and getting Thorman up. Too bad, really. As much as I have doubted Prado all year, I would love to see some more of him in the next month, preferrably at second base or SS.

DOB Who else do you suspect they will call up? Lilly? Perry? James?

Is Richmond going to be in the playoffs (embarrased that I don’t know the answer to that question.)

By Bob in SF

August 27, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, who do you thnk we will see in the September call-ups?

By 18 Wheels of Love

August 27, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

“We’re Oscar Mike…”

By Couch Tater

August 27, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Great blog. Sad to lose Kotsay but, good for him. Nice choice of music, I still have a ticket stub from a Jackson Browne concert Nov. 1976……$7.00.(D@mn)

By Jeff321

August 27, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Umm, shouldn’t Frenchy be competing for his job next year? I sure hope they aren’t planning on penciling him in regardless of production!

By Spider29

August 27, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

I hate to see Kotsay go. Along with Edgar Renteria, he is one of the few opposing players that I always hoped would play for the Braves. He’s been a favorite since I saw him play in the 1996 Olympics. He did a good job for the Braves this season. I will never forget Mark hitting for the cycle. Good luck in Boston, Z!

By Robert

August 27, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

“Please explain how that season was substandard (Francoeur’s seasons before ‘08)

Thru ‘07 Frenchy had a K/BB ratio of 319 to 76 and had been caught stealing on 11 of his 20 attempts.

Thats FUNDAMENTALLY substandard.

Frenchy is Andruw-Jones-light - he was blessed with so much talent that he could get by for a long time without solid fundamentals. But in the major lesagues, that’ll catch up to you eventually

Poorly developed fundamentals during his amateur and minor league days + poorly managed in the bigs allowing continuation of his poor fundamentals = a career very much in jeopardy at age 24

By Bobby's Cox

August 27, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

The Braves signed Elmer Dessens as a pitching coach to replace Roger, or they signed him to pitch?

Wren says they’d have to purchase the contract of one of the minor league prospects and could lose someone to the Rule 5 draft if they do. However, they fill out the 40-man rosters void left by Kotsay with Dessens?

Yikes. Why not just let the competition for CF begin this season by purchasing Schafer now? Am I missing something.

Thanks for all the info DOB, and the blog.

By fastasballs

August 27, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

The kid they picked up for Kotsay looks to be solid. It’s good to get something for him & it looks like Wren did ok. It’s better letting Kotsay walk & receiving nothing in return. So at least when comparing the trade for Devine we can add Sumoza into the equation.

Steve from OH Where do get this information? It’s good stuff. I love keeping tabs on the minor league prospects.

By McFann :Ô:

August 27, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

I hope Z has a great month for the Red Sox (even though I can’t stand that team.)

You were a great guy, Mark. I’m gonna miss ya!

OK…Maybe in a later at-bat, McCann will get the ball out of the infield…

By Braint

August 27, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Is it me or does Mike Hampton look like the actor who plays Dr. Troy’s son on Nip/Tuck?

By Who is Elmer Dessens

August 27, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Braves signed 37-year-old pitcher Elmer Dessens.

The goo-meter has moved to the red.

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

fastasballs, the AFL rosters were posted on baseball america (which is great for following prospects, btw) and you can follow all of the minor league games on milb.com

By fastasballs

August 27, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

DOB Any information from Wren about Freeman starting at Myrtle Beach next season along with Heyward?

If so that’s going to be one helluva an offensive show down there. The Pelicans have put on an offensive show this season as well.

I assume Rohrbough will start there next season. Diamond may move up the Mississippi based on his stats at Rome & Myrtle Beach this season.

There is going to a log jam of pitching talent by the end of next season if these guys continue to improve. That’s great, even if just 2-3 of them make the rotation in the next few seasons. Hanson should be the first to get his shot. Medlin has made great strides as have Redmond. All have very good control, the one thing young pitchers usually lack.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

For those looking for reasons for optimism with Hudson’s return, consider that Josh Johnson had TJ surgery in the first week of August 2007. He got back in 11 months and has been pitching great.

He’s considerably younger, but still… worth noting. Does happen, though not often. Usually it’s 12 months or a little longer, not shorter, recovery.

By Billy

August 27, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Probably from Scout.com Braves message board forum, but there are many other sites that are not as fast to get info that are also good.

By Josh M

August 27, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

What’s the word on Kotchman? Obviously they’re not rushing him back.

By john10

August 27, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any reason the Braves keep passing over Jorge Julio, who’s pitching pretty well in Richmond..

Dessens was unimpressive in Mexico, giving up 129 hits in only 105 IP.

FW’s argument about the 40 man is curious as it seems unlikely that guys like DeSalvo, Bueno, Perry, and Tavarez would be claimed on waivers if taken off of the roster. Soriano, Glavine, and Diaz all could be transferred to the 60 day DL too. With so many pending free agents, it doesn’t look like the Braves will have issues with a full 40 man roster over the winter. And if the Braves are concerned about hanson and Medlen’s IP as they should be, why are they sending them to the Arizona Fall League?

By VaBravesfan

August 27, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

good-bye Kotsay, gonna miss you. you were a true brave for your short time.

By fastasballs

August 27, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks Steve. I didn’t know they had posted the rosters on Baseball America. I have not been on there in a week or so. I’ll check them out

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Wren says they�d have to purchase the contract of one of the minor league prospects and could lose someone to the Rule 5 draft if they do. However, they fill out the 40-man rosters void left by Kotsay with Dessens?Bobby’s Cox

Perhaps you haven’t noticed that the Braves have an ERA more than a run higher than any other NL team since the break, that they have relievers with arms hanging to the ground?

They need innings from someone, anyone.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention, Kotchman was moved to “restricted list” today. The seven-day max bereavement period was up, so Braves either had to move him to restricted (unpaid) list or play short-handed with him on active roster. Can’t DL a guy who’s not hurt (or at least you’re not supposed to, and in this case it’d be pretty obvious).

His mom’s still in ICU.

By Pretzel Logic

August 27, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Wren said we won’t see any of the Braves’ top young prospects in September… He said the reasoning was two-fold: 1. The Braves want to monitor innings on those guys… and 2. “roster management.” (…to add any of them, including Schafer, to the 40-man roster now would require the Braves take someone off and possibly lose them in the Rule 5 Draft.)

OK. But meanwhile, the braves use up valuable roster spots with guys like Tavarez, Gotay, and now, heaven-forbid, Elmer “Fudd” Dessens?

Great roster management. Maybe we should all turn over our 401Ks for Frank Wren to manage.

By brian

August 27, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

who are realistic pitching targets for the Braves to acquire this offseason?

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

John10: Transferring them to 60-day DL doesn’t help when you get to offseason. There’s a date at which all 60-day DL guys have to be moved to 40-man roster in offseason, before the Rule 5 draft. Can’t be stashed on 60-day DL.

By Dand

August 27, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Dave, would you PLEASE listen to the Nico version of that song

By McFann :Ô:

August 27, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Hmm…Well, not that at-bat…Soon, though…He’ll get one out of the infield soon! (I hope…)

Triple for Johnson! Rally time?

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Oh, and John10: regarding Fall League. Hanson and Medlen aren’t on 40-man roster, and I’m sure the Braves would rather see them pitch against elite prospects in the AFL than against major leaguers they probably aren’t ready to face yet. It’s a natural step in development. Why would you pitch them here in September rather than in the Arizona Fall League, where you can evaluate them in a relaxed setting where they’re not likely to be overwhelmed or try to do too much facing the likes of Hanley Ramirez, Lance Berkman and Ryan Howard?

By Jeff321

August 27, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Here is a .pdf of the AFL rosters.

http://tinyurl.com/5zavlp

By Retire, Greg, Retire!

August 27, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Greg Maddux against the STINKING Nationals: 4 IP, 8 hits, 4 runs. Very sad to watch. He’s not exactly the steal for the Dodgers some proclaimed him to be.

By john10

August 27, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

I know that the 60 day DL isn’t in effect during the offseason. The team has at least seven players who will become free agents and many others like DeSalvo, Nunez, Ridgway, Gotay, Perry, and Bueno who seem unlikely to stay on the 40 man roster during the offseason. Adding one or two non roster players in Sept shouldn’t create a roster jam with so many roster spots opening up the day after the world series. Even accounting for the team adding a few players to the 40 man to protect from the rule V draft, the roster should be nowhere near full.

By Josh

August 27, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the link to the AFL Jeff321 I’d never even heard of Heath until the list. Interesting that B. Jones is going out there too.

Apparently the Braves are sending soon to be 13-year old wunderkin Tommy Hanson out to Arizona!

By keylargo

August 27, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

I think Hampton is looking great. An incentive contract should be offerd to him and I think he would be a valuable #3 or #4 starter and work his way back to a #2 maybe. His velocity should increase a few MPH since the full recovery for TJ surgery is 18 months and he should start remembering how to pitch after 3 years off.

The problem is what kind of contract does a man with $100 million dollars in the bank sign? He deferred a bunch of the money at the front end of his 8 year $120 million contract that is expiring. His financial position should be so strong it shouldn’t matter what he signs for, but his ego will have to be placated.

But get him signed. He can win again in MLB>

By McFann :Ô:

August 27, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

:,(

By ncscoots

August 27, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Why would you pitch them here in September rather than in the Arizona Fall League

Especially since none of the kids for which the blog clamors figures into the 2009 plan. No need to bring up Schafer, when Brandon Jones and Josh Anderson are the ones in need of evaluation. Can’t play ‘em all, all the time (and I really hope they play Anderson every game…maybe we can get that bromance stifled, at least).

As far as pitching, Morton and Reyes need to sock away some innings, bloody ones, if need be, just to get that experience under their belts. The prospects in the pipeline, many of them, have only just taken the first big step in development, at AA. Why waste the success at that level with an overmatched September callup? The AFL will be tough enough for some of these kids.

By This Josh Johnson guy is pretty good

August 27, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Better than Elmer Dessens, I suspect.

By Bozo

August 27, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

We just picked up a 37 year-old guy named ELMER, whose talent is so unique that he was cut by the Pirates?

Wonder what Pascual Perez is doing.

By Couch Tater

August 27, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

McFann

Fiddlesticks?

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

And since we’re on the subject of the rule V draft, here’s a list of dudes eligible for the draft (got it from TalkingChop):

Derrick Arnold J.C. Boscan Phillip Britton Jose Camarena Eric Campbell Greg Creek Quentin Davis Bryan Dumesnil Reid Gorecki Diory Hernandez J.C. Holt Sung Jung Kala Kaaihue Carl Loadenthal Stephen Marek Ernesto Mejia Brad Nelson Jon Mark Owings James Parr Van Pope Todd Redmond Jonathon Rouwenhorst Zach Schreiber Yohan Silva Scott Thorman Wes Timmons Chris Vines Matt Young

By Brad

August 27, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I am starting to think we might have a 1st baseman in the making, but we still need to get rid of KJ at 2nd!!!!

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

scoots, good post at 8:51. I like sending Hanson to AFL too, because he’d be able to log more innings there than in a Sept callup with the Braves. Keep in mind his career high for innings is around 120 or 130 and he’s thrown only 133 this season, so if he could get it up to 170ish in the AFL that would be great.

By McFann :Ô:

August 27, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater—

You said it!

Bobby’s Cox McFann is staying interested by watching McCann

Uh…I guess you could say that, sure…

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Friend of mine is at the My Morning Jacket concert right now in Atlanta, and all the members of Drive-By Truckers are sitting four rows in front of him. I had to pass up a ticket to cover this game….

By Spider29

August 27, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Good job tonight by Hampton. It as nice to see him pitch eight innings. He did have to pitch out of trouble and he did give up that 2-out single to H. Ramirez but very encouraging to see him pitch as well as he did. Enjoyed Kelly’s triple too!

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Oh, my, that’s about as long a home run as I’ve seen hit to left field here in a game. That was absolutely CRUSHED.

By echo?

August 27, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be great to have a 1B that had the “potential” to hit 5 HR’s a season?

And why don’t you cite those reasons “we still need to get rid of KJ”.

By john10

August 27, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

DOB

I wasn’t arguing that Hanson/Medlen should be brought up. I was just saying that FW’s statements to you about why some prospects aren’t being promoted don’t make much sense. I do think that several non roster players should be brought up—for one, Luis Valdez, who was named the Southern League’s top reliever prospect by league managers. He has to be added to the 40 man or he will become a minor league free agent.

Having Hanson and Medlen pitch in the AFL is probably better for their development than pitching in the majors for a month. That still doesn’t explain FW’s argument that the team wanted to limit their innings and then sending them to AZ to pitch even more.

By Blaine Boyer does it again

August 27, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

What a sad sack of frass!

By Graham

August 27, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

OUCH!!! Great battle by Uggla, but almost predictable outcome.

By steve_97060

August 27, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

someone really needs to teach Boyer a split finger or off speed pitch…

By JEB

August 27, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

DOB Any idea who the Marlins may throw out onto the trade market for next year?? They have several that will be up for arbitration and Fla. is not known for really expanding their payroll.

By Lawton

August 27, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the list, Steve. I’m guessing the Braves will want to protect Campbell, Kaaihue, Marek, Parr and Redmond for sure. Diory Herndandez could be useful and Van Pope is slotted for the AFL (that one is confusing to me).

A Rule V draftee would have to remain on the major leage roster, but I’m not sure any of those guys are MLB ready. Diory and Parr have been respectable at AAA, so I guess they might be most likely to be picked.

By BL

August 27, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio Of course you have to have runners on to score but 1-8 is not going to be full of great hitters. All I am saying is that to have a big RBI guy late in the order is a good thing!

By bravelee

August 27, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Another money-dump deal with Kotsay. Hard to say an A ball player is a “solid” prospect, isn’t it? Wren has mantled and dismantled with no sign of improvement here, a poor, over the hill coaching staff, a broken down pitching staff…and the only hope is free agency. I’ll be looking at my ticket prices real close to see if they scale them back because of the bad season and bad prospects ahead—fat chance!

By john10

August 27, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Dessens has only pitched three times since July 4, the last being over a month ago on July 24. Not sure how that’s a better option than promoting Jorge Julio or even Michael Nix from Richmond. The Braves should’ve claimed Justin Miller from the Marlins last week or Bryan Corey from the Padres this week if they were so desparate.

By jerry

August 27, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Anyone else notice that BMac makes a lot of late innings outs on the first pitch?

By McFann Ô

August 27, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Only problem with hitting Victorino is then he’d be on base…

LAY OFF the first pitch, DANGIT!!

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

JEB, with their new stadium deal once again tied up in the courts, they could be unloading anybody making any money at all.

Doink… that was the sound of the ball Uggla hit finally landing on someone’s car in the Lexus lot. It was about a 950-foot shot.

By Robbie T

August 27, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now but,Mike Hampton is getting better every time out.He left a couple of pitches up tonight but,looks like he can still get hitters out.After all he went through to get back i say hooray for Mike.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

For the second time in a week, a guy throws his first-ever complete game against the Braves.

By Brad

August 27, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Echo? Wouldnt be nice to have a 2nd base that could just HIT….Oh ya don’t have to mention field??????

By Crazy Diamond

August 27, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Gotta love Jackson Browne. I just popped one of his CD’s in the car this weekend and I have not taken it out yet.

Getting Mark Kotsay was a good move. I liked watching him play and appreciated his contribution to the team. Hope the prospect we got in the trade pays off.

By StingerSplash

August 27, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

So by signing Dessens, the pitching staff is now going to get younger, right? Always been a Kotsay fan, going to back watching him in the CWS. Hope he does well in Boston and glad he enjoyed his stay in Atlanta. Wish it had turned better. Can’t fault Hampton tonight. Not a bad start at all. But would like to have seen Prado take a pitch or two from a guy above the 110-pitch mark who had just walked the previous batter.

And where was MMJ playing tonight, anyway?

By BrandonC

August 27, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

I’m very dissapointed to hear that Schafer will not be coming up this year. I can understand the top pitching prospects, but not Schafer.

By JEB

August 27, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Another quality start by Mike Hampton - gave the team a chance to win.

Too bad though - Josh Johnson was SOOOOO much better tonight!

My vote is bring back Hampton for next year (a WHOLE lot cheaper though). His arm has been getting restored for 3 yrs. instead of worn down for 3 yrs. He would be a great 4 or 5 hole pitcher!

By Jerry Lee Lewis

August 27, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Elmer “Effing” Dessins signed, are you kidding me? I’d rather marry my 13 year old cousin than sign him. The Braves are no longer shopping at Goodwill Industries, the Flea Market, or the Pawn Shop for arms, we’re buying them out of the trunk in the alley from a guy named Guido like he’s selling lukewarm Miller High Life in a can to adolescents a $5 a pop at a 1987 Meadowlands Guns and Roses Show, MY GOD WHAT HAVE WE BECOME?

By McFann Ô

August 27, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Cool. I got Gameday to work on Safari.

Yee-haw.

By JR

August 27, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

How many of you are sick and tired of watching Yunel Escobar whine and complain about called 3rd strikes? He is AWEFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is not Braves material. We gave up a classy guy in Renteria for this guy. Somebody needs to snatch a not in this guy and straighten him out. Every umpire in the bigs will have it out for us. BTW Gregor Blanco does the same thing sometimes. Keep you mouth shut and play ball. Dump the head case in the off season.

By Mike Hampton's beautician

August 27, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now but,Mike Hampton is getting better every time out.

You noticed. His lipstick is now better coordinated with his blush. He’s an Autumn!

By Bobby's Cox

August 27, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

brian

if i had to put my money on it, i’d say derek lowe is a brave next season. I don’t think they’ll be able to sign CC, and I don’t think they’ll go after sheets with his injury history.

I’d say the rotation is JJ, Campillo, Lowe, Hampton, and a player they get through a trade. Hopefully someone darn good.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Plenty of scouts here tonight, including Mets and Cardinals. Might one of those teams be ready to gamble on a trade for Hampton? You never know. Dessens could be here for that reason, just in case….

By Brad

August 27, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

* JR* Did you wtch the game? OK, the first 4 ingings the strike zone was the size of a pea.. 5th and 6th it was the size of a,, well lets say normal. 7,8,9th it was so here and there who would know what to fight off. I think if the umps start tight they need to stay tight the whole game not give in as the game goes on the the score take affect. These playes from rookies to vets. are wanting to make millions or already do, the least the home ump can do call the game the same regardless of the inning, score, or player.

By Bobby's Cox

August 27, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

too bad Corky’s not on the club anymore….

we could have Elmer pitching to Corky.

what a circus.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Pete Van Wieren said Uggla’s homer was also the longest he’d ever seen hit to left field here. I swear, I thought it might land in the second deck. Didn’t miss by too much.

By TennesseePaul

August 27, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Well yesterday was interesting. The Braves mount a monster come back and spoke of a trade prior to its completion. The worlds aligned I guess. To bad about tonight.

This trade is looking good. I liked Kotsay. I was on record wanting the Braves to get him last off season. He played great while he was here and left us with a solid young guy. Not a bad deal. Much better than Aybar for Ridgway.
So far Wren is proving to be a better tradesman than FA signer. Hope he can improve on his FA results this offseason. All these outfielders should help this offseason though. It could open up more trade possibilities than before.

By Lawton

August 27, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Good game for Medlen tonight.

6 ip, 1 er, 1 bb, 8 so

Also, an RBI groundout and RBI double at the plate.

By echo?

August 27, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

BRAD

So, KJ can’t hit and can’t field, so you want to get rid of him.

Marcus Giles .277 BA . 981 fielding

Glenn Hubbard .244 BA .983 fielding

Mark Lemke .246 BA . 984 fielding

Kelly Johnson .266 BA .981 fielding

All those are career stats. KJ has had Tommy John surgery and changed positions and STILL is right in there.

So, Brad, there’s 25 years of Braves 2B that are in the same boat as KJ. Were you demanding they trade all those guys?

I’d didn’t think so.

You got any other reasons. Those don’t seem to be worth a damn.

By Chop Chop

August 27, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Trading Mike Hampton would be a smart move by Wren. Mike’s been a mixed bag since his return, but the fact that he went eight innings tonight against a decent team might be a clincher for a desperate team to cut a deal favorable for the Braves.

By uga-brave

August 27, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

all this glue factory needed to make the season complete was a guy named elmer.

By Josh Johnson was lights out

August 27, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Josh Johnson was “lights out”. Seriously.

**Blaine Boyer was “light on”. As usual.”

By Random

August 27, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

keylargo: “I think Hampton is looking great… . His velocity should increase a few MPH since the full recovery for TJ surgery is 18 months and he should start remembering how to pitch after 3 years off… . He can win again in MLB>”

Spider29: “Good job tonight by Hampton. It as nice to see him pitch eight innings. He did have to pitch out of trouble and he did give up that 2-out single to H. Ramirez but very encouraging to see him pitch as well as he did.”

Robbie T: “Don’t look now but,Mike Hampton is getting better every time out.He left a couple of pitches up tonight but,looks like he can still get hitters out.After all he went through to get back i say hooray for Mike.”

JEB: “Another quality start by Mike Hampton - gave the team a chance to win.”

I totally agree with all of y’all.

BUT — were any of you as blindsided as me when you heard Boog/Joe (or Pete/Chip — I can’t remember where I was when I heard it) — when you heard them speculating that this strong performance by Hampton would enhance his trade value to a contending team this season?!?!?

Apparently, the Braves are (may be?) shopping Hampton to one of the play-off contenders.

This is the first I’d heard of something like this — not that surprising, after all, since his perceived value has probably gone up by several orders of magnitude since the non-waiver trade deadline (since he had only started one game prior to 31 Jul).

His last three starts: 1-1, 20 IP, 8 ER (3.60 ERA), 11 K/5 BB, 30 GO/17 AO, 3 quality starts.

SO, a couple of questions for you, DOB:

(1) Has Hampton cleared waivers?

(b) Are the Braves shopping him around, or looking to trade him, this season?

(Don’t know how I feel about this possible turn of events — depends on who we get for him, I guess.)

(Thanks, DOB.)

PS: I also have to note that all five of the TV post-game commentators (Jurr-whosis, Gant, Smoltz, Simpson, “Syndrome”) made a point to talk the h3ll up out of Hampton — not only his performance tonight, but also his “trajectory” since coming off the DL. (Also, Cox talked him up big in answering the first question in the post-game interview.) All that’s FWIW only.

By keylargo

August 27, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

I would much rather sign Hampton than trade him. If we trade him, you would get minimal value. All you can get now is a marginal prospect or two while signing him and letting him develop his game again over the next year might allow him to return to a #2 in the rotation.

We have so much invested in him I would rather ride this one out instead of giving him away for practically nothing.

He can pitch again successfully.

By gotigers72

August 27, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Elmer Dessens = Another ragarm. Why do the Braves continue to do this? They could have an all ragarm All Star team from just the last 2 years. I know DOB, you said they need anybody due to relievers arms falling off daily, but come on…Elmer Dessens?

KJ made another non play tonight just like the game in St.Looie where he had about three in the same game. I swear he could have reached that ball tonight. He almost never dives for a ball. I know M. Giles went downhill and pi**ed a lot of bloggers off in the last couple of years he was in the ATL, but by God if there was a way to get to a ball, he would do it. I still have pictures in my mind of him sprawling in the outfield grass and getting up and throwing the runner out. Little dude could pick it. Not so Kelly. Has no instincts at second, or any other position probably. The way Prado is hitting, that job should be his when Kotchman comes back, and when Spring Training starts next year.

I have to agree with Mr.Wren on not bringing those 3 players from Mississippi up in September. They have all only been professional players for 3 years or less. However, I was wondering about the reliever at Mississippi with the 28 saves and more than a strikeout per inning. Luis Valdez I think is his name. Would like to see him in a few games after their playoffs are over. i think he’s a little older than the other 3 guys. Since Richmond will not be in the playoffs, I wouldn’t mind seeing Diory Hernandez play a few games either.

By bfan54

August 27, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

KeyLargo at 8:50 - I agree with you on Hampton. The man can still pitch. He has an ego, but I see him staying and playing on a reasonable contract. He has something to prove, and I suspect he wants to prove it here. Like what I see. Hell, he’s worth something for his bat alone!

By Mike Hampton's beautician

August 27, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Mike’s been a mixed bag since his return

Yes. I’ve been telling Mike that he keeps too many things in his purse.

By Robert S

August 27, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

It’s a telling statement of the current state of MLB pitching that a team would pursue Mike Hampton given his past, but hey, he’s pitched pretty well the last few outings, so I say, what the heck? Maybe the Braves can get another A or AA prospect or two, if someone’s hard up enough for an arm. Which is pretty much everyone else out there in contention.

Sell high, Frank! Let’s restock that farm system, one guy (or maybe two) at a time…..

By Brian

August 27, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

JR- Agree with you on Escobar and Blanco too. Umps, as we’ve all seen, can be very vindictive (get back at you) for the mut fans. Escobar needs an attitude adjustment. It’s startin’ to get old. Too good for that. Another reason why I think it might be time for Cox to go!! Can’t control a 25 year old’s bad attitude? I’d hate to see him in a trade,cause he has so much upside, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

By bfan54

August 27, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Jerry Lee Lewis at 9:43 - Best post in the last 2 years! It has left me “Breathless -ah”.

By Interested Observer

August 27, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox Don’t worry. I bet we see Corky back up on Sept. 1.

Do you get the feeling that the agent for every has-been or never-was pitcher is calling Frank Wren now.

By Robert

August 27, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

“For the second time in a week, a guy throws his first-ever complete game against the Braves”

Just coincidence. A crapshoot it is I tell you. Got nothing to do with the way the team is run

By keylargo

August 27, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

bf54

It seems since I posted that about signing Hampton for next year, that some teams are scouting Hampton to pitch for them this year.

What do you think about that? Trade him or sign him?

By Brad

August 27, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

echo?* Lol nice stats. Ok those mean to me,,,,well say yunel. OK yunel has HUGE range thats what makes him one of the best SS in the NL. Within that range you have run more than 3 or 4 steps to the right or left (stay with me here). OK this is why KJ has a .981 feilding **BECAUSE HE KNOWS IF HE GOES FOR A BALL WITHIN 5 FT OF A BACKHAND OR 10 FT TO THE LEFT HE CANT MAKE IT. HE KNOWS IF YOU DONT TRY HMMMMMMMMMMM NO ERROR ON MY PART WHEN I BOOT IT. That is the reason KJ has a decent FA. LOL Hubby looked like yunel on second and could make the plays. So like so many STATS its just the way you look at them. I had rather have a infielder that makes 15-17 errors trying and saving 20-24 runs over a season than one that makes 10 errors saving 3-5 runs. Look up those STATS.

By Random

August 27, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

JR: “How many of you are sick and tired of watching Yunel Escobar whine and complain about called 3rd strikes? He is AWEFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is not Braves material.”

The h3ll you say — ever heard of a fella by the name of Bobby Cox??????? He’s been with the Braves for a few years now, and nobody cries more about ball/strike calls than Cox.

Perhaps you should return to Dallas, where your ignorance of the Braves (and presumably the Rangers) would be quite dismissable.

By bfan54

August 27, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

I think enough is enough. KJ is not going to take us to the BIG SHOW, but he’s adequate, plays with some heart (ok, he stabbed us in the heart against Philly!), and I am hearing get rid of Yunell,too.

I don’t get it. We’ve got 3/5’s of our starters and 2 closers on the DL - we’ve unloaded Tex, Kotsay, and the big ugly birds are cirling for Hampton. Chip is not going to be better next year. So why are KJ, Yunell, and Francouer being marched to the end of the plank - I think we’ve some attavistic bloggers here who need to get a life or perspective or find an AA meeting, whichever comes first.

I am hearing insanity here, and not liking it. He*@, I’ll blog after a few, but I don’t throw out reason with bottle caps or corks. Gimme shelter!!

By Brian

August 27, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

My God people, look what JS left Wren to deal with!! You can’t fix a problem overnight. Yes, it’s frustrating but I blame JS for 95 percent of this crap! He new his mistakes and we can only guess that’s why he stepped down-or up. To me it’s very obvious. Anybody that blames FW is either ignorant or just bored to death looking for something to talk about.

By Saltywoody

August 27, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

You know, the Hampton thing is so bittersweet. I’m glad for him that he’s back pitching again and pitching well.

But, how frickin convenient is it that he’s back just in time to make a few solid starts before the end of the last year of his contract? Could he really not have pitched earlier this year when it actually mattered for the team he’s been NOT pitching for for the better part of the last three years?

I know we’ve beaten this guy’s case to death. But, him pitching well now is almost like a slap in the face.

Frankly, I hope to hell he’s traded so we actually get something out of him. I certainly don’t want him back next year…wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him.

By echo?

August 27, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

BRAD

You can’t give me any reasons can you Brad? Those are arguments a fifth grader would make.

You look up the stats you want to present. You want to trade him. You made an idiotic statement (trade KJ cause he can’t hit or field) and now you can’t back it up.

I just get sick of negative people who make absurd statements and think nothing about it. You make enough stupid remarks and sooner or later you’re going to get called out.’

Show me something or I’ll know for sure your and idiot.

By Random

August 27, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

McFann — Were you watching the game tonight? Did you hear what Triple Mac (with Cheese) said upon his return to the dugout in the 7th? It wasn’t this, I assure you.

(-8

PS: today, I saw 4 mud turtles, 3 snappers, and 4 or 5 cooters. (Yesterday, I saw a baby snapper the size of a 50 cent piece.)

By bobby Petrino

August 27, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

2009 projected starting rotation:

Elmer Dressens Luis Tiant Juan Marichal Phil Neikro Bob Gibson

Way to go Frank! You da man!

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Brad, I’m glad someone here has realized that certain traditional metrics have very large flaws. In any case, you’d probably have to ask Shaun for stats like Kelly’s range factor and some analysis. I’ve never been as huge of a fan of fielding metrics (nor do I pretend to be an expert on them) as I have been of hitting or pitching metrics, but there is of course a story to be told. I do believe that the general consensus is that:

1. Kelly’s bat will generally make up for the runs lost on the field and

2. Martin is a marginal defender as well, so really the only argument is “who is, and will be, a better offensive tool, Kelly or Martin?” Arguments (and certainly valid arguments) can be made for both sides.

By David O'Brien

August 27, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

I asked Hampton tonight about possibly coming back, and he said, “I’m certainly open to it.”

But for now, he just wants to try to make every start and have back-to-back 100-pitch games, that kind of thing.

Really, though, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Braves get an offer for him by Sunday. Just a gut feeling. But who knows. We might not even hear about it if it happens, if it’s just a BS offer.

By Brad

August 27, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

echo? Dude put the whiskey away, go to bed and have happy dreams about next year when KJ isnt here. LOL proof, watch a game a stupid XXX!!!!

By Lawton

August 27, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Steve

What are basing your opinion that Martin is marginal defensively on?

By N Nine

August 27, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

This “offer” we might give to Hampton is to see if we can sign him cheap—if not—then he’s getting traded. Things could develop quickly. Might as well make something out of this small successful run he’s on!

By Captipper

August 27, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

You just gotta tip your cap to that Josh Johnson kid, he was lights out tonight

By Brad

August 27, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Steve I know and respect your point. Hope you may see outside the box, as a home run is not everyting. Feilding is alot.

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Lawton, I believe the scouting report on Martin has him as an average defender, and it has been discussed at length here. In any case, from what I’ve seen, he’s not much better than Kelly out there. I know, my eyes are a bit subjective, but I’d like to see some fielding comparisons of the two (other than fielding % and number of errors, of course). In any case, neither one’s fielding is bad enough to negate their offensive input. They both produce more runs at the plate (from an average second baseman) than they leave on the field, so the fielding isn’t really an issue, to me, for either of them.

By Jake

August 27, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

JR

Come on man, do you know how many players complain about a strike zone during the game. We see it almost every other at bat where a player looks at an ump and doesn’t think the call was a strike. Come up with a better reason to get rid of a player with Escobar’s talent and upside.

By gayle

August 27, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

The Zone talks about the players who have come here for a “cup of coffee”. The only problem is for each cup of coffee, the Braves give up real players.

The A’s got Joey Devine for Mark Kotsay - and now less than a season later, what does this team have to show for it? A 20 year old prospect for a bonafide closer.

There are other coffee drinkers like Tex, JD Drew and Sheffield.

And now the Braves sign a reliever cut by Pittsburgh?

DOB, Carroll and TM, you should be putting BC and FW to the coals for all these bonehead moves. TM says back next year?

Not bloody likely!

The path to respectability begins at the top - or at VERY least in the dugout. Now moves there guarantees more of the same - three years and counting now.

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Brad, I certainly don’t undervalue fielding, I just think a very good offensive player at a position (which is what Kelly was last season) is still very valuable even if they play marginal defense. I’d like a bunch of defensive studs, sure, but if I could get a bunch of great hitters and marginal defenders I’d take that, too. Like I said before, I’d like a real analysis from someone like Shaun (since I don’ subscribe to Baseball Prospectus) to see the difference between Kelly’s fielding runs and batting runs, etc.

Home runs aren’t everything, of course, but they are very important. The most important thing is OBP, which Kelly was better in in terms of minor league numbers and major league numbers before this season. I think Kelly has the better long-term OBP potential, and better long-term SLG potential. If Martin is better in the field, fine, but I’ll take my chances with Kelly.

By uga-brave

August 27, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

nine straight games without hitting a dinger.

when was the last time the braves had no one hit 25 home runs?

no real speed and absolutely no power = many games like tonight.

pretty sad state of affairs. no real young nucleus of offense or pitching.

By Lawton

August 27, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Steve

Thanks for the explanation.

I wonder what Glenn Hubbard would say if he were asked to compare KJ and Prado defensively. I’ve got my hunch.

By Brad

August 27, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Steve look at Prado 1 start before at fist base before 5 days ago. Cox told him take balls at first. Honestly, he looks like a first baseman in 6 starts. KJ played the whole off season 2 years ago, played last season, and this season. Wow,,,, your eyes will tell you he is not a infielder!!! Rather have hits,double, and triples than a homer every 120 at bats, and a hit every now and then. People open your eyes!!!!

By JMP

August 27, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, what is the strategy here? I get the part where they are dumping players for prospects. I assume that Tex, Kotsay, Hamp(if he goes) do not fit into their plans. So, they get prospects. But it begs the question, what is the plan? I just don’t see it.

By Steve from OH

August 27, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Lawton, to elaborate further, from what I’ve read (and seen) the consensus is that while Prado has great hands (which Kelly doesn’t have) he lacks range and speed which limits how many balls he can get to.

By Steve from OH

August 28, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Whoa, easy, chief I never said Prado wasn’t an infielder, I just said that his defense wasn’t superb enough to separate him “head and shoulders” from Kelly. I think he’s better in the field, but I think Kelly does all right as well. He’s still learning, mind you.

And did I not note in my earlier post that I myself found my visual clues to be a bit subjective?? Did I not say that I’d like to see some statistical analysis of their play?? Perhaps you should have opened yours a bit wider when you read my post.

By BravesLover

August 28, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

I’m betting Yunel and Blanco are two of the problems in the locker room You’re right JR they are not Braves material. Unfortunately there isn’t a man in the locker room now to show them the right way. Edgar did it for Yunel last year but he’s a kid and needs to be jerked several times until it sinks in. I’m surprised Eddie Perez isn’t on Blanco and Yunel. With no active leadership from vets the kids will run rampant in the playroom (and on the field). Both players better plan on expanding their strike zones a lot.

By uga-brave

August 28, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

all this kelly johnson talk about what he is or is not is getting kinda old.

defensively, he does not have the instinct or fast twitch muscles to ever be a above average second baseman. plain and simple he looks very stiff out there.

offensively, quit comparing him to chase utley. aint gonna ever happen. two different hitters. kelly has a long mechanical swing, while utley has a short compact power stroke.

kj might hit 20 one day, might, but that long swing will always produce slumps. he just is not a good situational hitter, and is a terrible bunter.

gotta think if kotchman is going to be at first next year, kelly will probably be shopped. we already have too many LH hitters one of them has probably gotta go. kelly has got a world of potential but has failed to live up to those expectations.

By Hampton's Mother -In-Law

August 28, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

This seals it for me. Sign Hampton up for another 3 year deal. Go at least to 30 million, but get him inked before he has a chance to negotiate with anyone else.

We need this guy next year. Slot him in with Tommy, John, Elmer and then we need one more starter until Huddy comes back in September. We can do this thing.

Hopefully the other starter will be either cc or Ben who are probably arranging tours of Buckhead as we speak—Watch the tampering!!! Just imagine all the guys wanting to play for Bobby and work under his cool demeanor and steady influence.

Can’t forget the laid back attitudes of the beat writers and columnists who make this such a nice place to play. In that nasty Boston or New York, you would have had teams raked over the coals if they had parlayed 14 straight divisional titles—and mostly in a garbage division—into ONE!!!!!! WHOLE WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP, but in Atlanta the manager, GM and ownership are deified for their skillful stewardship.

I’m telling you—Atlanta Is The Place and the City of Champions(well, maybe future champions).

By Lawton

August 28, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Steve,

Also, I hope that Kelly succeeds.

But if you look at Kelly’s numbers over the past calendar year (512 AB’s), he is below average in terms of offensive production at his position. Over that period, here are his rankings among 2B with a minimum or 400 plate appearances.

AVG - 22nd OBP - 21st SLG - 21st SO - 5th (highest)

In his last 6 months of baseball (Sep 07 through Aug 08), he has had one good month of baseball (May 08). The rest have been pretty bad.

Again, I hope Kelly succeeds. But when Frank Wren is looking at ways to improve this team in the off-season, the 2B position has to be one spot where he looks long and hard.

By uga-brave

August 28, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

here is another mind numbing stat, the braves have a total of 18 saves. that one is off the charts.

By Brian

August 28, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

uga-brave- I’m with you on these “experts” with all this talk about,”who’s gonna be, Kelly/Prado Prado/Kelly?” Is this really that big of a problem for this teams future? One of them is gone soon so you can all b*** about Prado next year. I’m kinda worrying about Chipper myself. No HR in how long? I know he’s pressing a little cause of the BT but man, this is more reason to get a couple of power bats. Jake- Escobars attitude is a big deal whaen you play in ATL. DO YOUR HOMEWORK BOY!!

By Brad

August 28, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Steve the open your eyes was not directed at you, SOME OF THE OTHER PEOPLE. I would also like to see those sats but I bet we dont see them because all the Prado haters on here will not post it when the look it up and say dam, I these stats (that no one every looks at don’t lie).

By Jake

August 28, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

I agree with uga-brave. Kotchman and KJ are too much alike. I kind of had the same feeling they might get rid of KJ because they just traded for Kotchman. They both seem to have the same type of temperment and you are kind of looking for the same thing from them. You don’t expect a ton of power from them, but you definately expect some. That’s not to say KJ is not a good player, but with the trade of Kotsay and Teix this team is very young. We already know that we want a power bat in the outfield and the corners seem to be set in the infield for now. I don’t see them trading Escobar unless it is an absolute still so KJ looks like the expendable person right now. But hey I could be wrong and they may actually consider trading Prado this offseason.

By Jake

August 28, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Well Brian I have done my homework and if we let some you people tell it I don’t know what kind of player makes a brave. Get rid of Kelly Johnson he’s not fiery enough. No wait get rid of Escobar he’s too fiery. Just last week this team played with no heart and got killed by St. Louis and someone was mad because Escobar smiled after he made a great play. If he would have slacked on the play and just stood there he would have been criticized for not trying. I know the kid had an attitude problem when he first came up, but I for one really think he is working on it and hasn’t been as bad this last month in a half. He ain’t gonna change overnight. His maturity will come with age, while sadly some of the people on this blog will never reach any level of maturity.

By keylargo

August 28, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Lawton if you are really a KJ fan and hope he succeeds, these numbers will make you feel better.

Out of the 30 MLB teams he ranks:

Runs - 11th

Hits - 14th

2B - 10th

3B - T6th

HR - 14th

RBI - 12th

Total Bases 14th

Above average in EVERY category.

I honestly think that next year he will settle down. He needs to bat in the same position from the start - bouncing from 1st to 2nd to 7th is asking for a different approach nightly. He is 26 years old, well liked by his team mates, and willing to help the team as shown by moving from SS to LF to 2B.

I can’t understand why anyone can not see the improvement he has made in the field. He is much improved turning the DP and his range will increase the more experience he gets. He has proven he will work to improve and with Hubbard there to coach him, he will improve.

By Brad

August 28, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this

keylargo I kook at all these sites also, but the stats are offence stats for position players. Oh come on and be fair and show the def. stats (yes they show range also). HHHMMMMMMMM noboby ever talks these or yall cant find them (let me know so I can show show you where 2 go). If you going to call stats call them both ways!!!!!!!!!!!

By Brian

August 28, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

Jake- I never said Escobar shouldn’t be here, all I’m saying is if he does spread any kind of bad attitude the Braves might be more willing to package him in a trade if say an ace were involved. Hope not, cause this guys gonna be a star, maybe a superstar. He will grow out of it and I might have sounded a little to quick with that. As far umps thinking he’s showing them up, that’s a little different than smiling after a nice play. He should do that. I like KJ alot but you have to admit, he does look like a whipped dog sometimes.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this

Anyone want to be open to the Braves F.O. Bringing Willy Tavares to the “A”…? This team will need speed next and he is coming at a cheaper rate than he was in his rookie season…

I might get bashed for this, But I’m not that High On Schafer, he might be George Lombard (Anyone remember him) Part 2…

Oh Yea, And D.O.B as much as I hate his daugher, I’m Listening to some old Lionel Richie “Zoom” As I prepare to drive up to the Louie in da morning…

By Bravo Nam

August 28, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the Jackson Browne song…the shining highlight amidst a lot of the negativity on the blog.

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

August 28, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

Why do I always have to be the one to speak the obvious?

Luis who? You have got to be freaking kidding me! Frank Wren had the Red Sox over a barrel and this is the best he could do? Give me a F-N break.

In five years, nobody will remember this trade except for me. Meanwhile, in Oakland, Joey Devine is sporting an ERA of 0.83, YEA, Z-E-R-O P-O-I-N-T E-I-G-H-T T-H-R-E-E. As bas as the Braves bullpen has been, don’t you think he would have helped? I do.

Dear Frank Wren, thanks for dropping the ball on this one, you got suckered by Billy Beane.

By GermanBravesFan

August 28, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

IF and that is IF Hampton were to come back to the Braves, what would it cost? What can his salary be measured by? This should be interesting… DOB, do you think anybody will take a big gamble on him and offer him a larger contract or will he need to sign a minor league deal? In a perfect world (which this is not), he would re-sign the the Braves for little money to at least give something back for all the money he made while being hurt (which was not his fault…).

By nolie

August 28, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

To say that the value of an RBI has diminished because someone has had more opportunities and not drove in runs is not accurate. 100 RBIs is still 100 RBIs

Keep in mind Jeff has so many at bats because he doesn’t he walk and has been healthy all year. No excuse for all the wasted chances, but we could twist and turn baseball stats all day. There are tons.

BL

It doesn’t really diminish the value of an RBI. Obviously they are realnecessary to win games, but they are poor indicators of a players hitting ability because they are influenced so strongly by conditions outside the players ability.

If Bonds had stayed in the leadoff spot his entire career he would have hundreds and hundreds fewer RBI, but that wouldn’t mean he was a worse hitter.

Jeff hit at a league average/below right fielder OPS of 103 last season, though granted he did well in RISP situations. But if he had been replaced with another player of about the same OPS, the results would have been very similar. It’s not like those RBI are gonna be lost.

Hitting with RISP is considered by many to not actually be a repeatable skill. Most players RISP numbers get very close to their career numbers as the sample size of situational at bats gets larger and larger. For instance as poorly as Jeff is doing overall this season, his situational hitting is even worse,thus regressing towardb the mean of his normal stats.

All we are saying is that there are better more reliable stats with which to judge a players performance ss a hitter than RBI, not that RBI ain’t important in the game.

By Robert

August 28, 2008 3:30 AM | Link to this

But how was it that Billy Beane was able to sucker Mr Wren?

At least partly because of the way the donkey in the dugout used Devine.

Billy Beane saw thru the stupidity and realized Devine had potential if used correctly

By JR

August 28, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

Most of you that are commenting about my post about Escobar whining must never watch the Braves. First of all it is Cox’s job to argue not the players. Yunel has repeatedly made a mockery of himself by showing up the umps. He has done this from day one, and I watch every game. I’m not excusing the umps I know that are inconsistent at times, but this guy has been a jerk the entire season. I know he plays hard and I like that about him, but I personally do not like his attitude. I’m just tired of seeing every time he strikes out looking he puts on a stinkin show out there.

By richbrave

August 28, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

DESSENS.? Sounds like 1975 to me. Any OLD port in a storm. Sure ELMER’s ROBERT REDFORD and not a guy named FUDD.?

By ncscoots

August 28, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this

I know the thought of re-signing Mike Hampton is anathema to many here, but, if he continues to pitch well through the end of the season, the Braves should consider it. A two-year deal, with first-year incentives and a vesting option, seems fair to me. Hampton, to me, seems the type of guy who might feel he owes the Braves back, at least a little.

If the general consensus is that the Braves need two legit vet starters in the offseason, a short-term Hampton and a single stud pickup seems more doable than two major deals, IMO.

By TommyP

August 28, 2008 6:45 AM | Link to this

Wow…..just wow. Where to start?

Elmer Dessens? Are you friggin’ kidding me? Can we get a list of the crap we’ve now signed off the CRAP heap now?

Whomever it was taking Wren to task for his explanation of not playing the prospects was on the money. He’s contradicting his statements big time.

Big question for everyone…We’re not bringing up Hanson or Medlen because they’d be overmatched???? Or we’re concerned about their innings?

Being concerned about their workload means NOT sending them to Arizona.

And DOB….what are the Braves going to learn about these kids in Arizona that they don’t already know from their AA performances? I would imagine the talent in the Arizona Fall League would be incredibly similar to AA baseball.

As I said in the offseason when the Devine for Kotsay deal was made - There’s no way we couldn’t have netted a McClouth, Cody Ross or Spilborghs with that same player.

Very worried about this franchise.

By mark

August 28, 2008 6:46 AM | Link to this

The Braves should have Josh Anderson in the leadoff every game remaining to see what it is to have spped I have never seen a player wasted so badly..I mean he has alot of Brett Butler in him…The Braves have really made some strange moves this season do something right add excitment on the base..I think Josh is the man..I never saw how Gregor Blanco was ever a better major leaguer than Josh…something is wronmg here..If he doesnt play every game rest of season..its wrong

By Bill

August 28, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

It would not be a suprise if Escobar is traded. He a good player and will get better. He’s a head case. Don’t laugh but he could be in Flordia next season with the right package and their SS to the Braves. That would work. Ther’s going to be so many changes for next season, we won’t know the Braves.

By TIMEFORCHANGE

August 28, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

I hope the fact that the braves are looking at Anderson, Blanco and Schafer does not mean that they wont spend money this offseason. The lineup we have now cant hit and Anderson does not have the pop for another outfielder. Ours is the worst in the majors.

If we go back to all pitching and no hitting we will be just like the 90’s again. Pitching and no hitting won us 1 world series and for Atlanta fans thats just not good enough anymore.

I dont think I can watch a bunch of just so so guys on the field next year knowing that theres a lot of money to be spent. Rookies are fine but not the entire team. Penny pinching has hurt us bad. I have to wonder if any pitchers will even consider Atlanta with the lineup we have. I think it would have to change to get top pitchers to sign. After all, who wants to pitch 7 innings only for the lineup to get you no runs and the pen to hand out walk after walk and blow the game in one inning.

By nolie

August 28, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

BASEBALL AMERICA ARIZONA LEAGUE ROSTERS

The Braves are sending

Deunte Heath

Tommy Hanson

Stephen Marek

Kris Medlen

Tyler Flowers

Brandon Jones

to Arizona.

*Major League Tune-Up: Braves righthander Tommy Hanson coasted through high Class A Myrtle Beach, and then continued his success upon a promotion to Double-A Mississippi. With 105 strikeouts in 93 innings at Mississippi, a low-90s fastball, a plus curve and the ability to command the strike zone, Hanson could find himself in the mix for a spot in Atlanta’s rotation at some point in 2009 … After a nice season with Double-A Reading and after playing in Beijing for Team USA, Phillies catcher Lou Marson will get more at-bats behind the plate in the AFL. He’s still growing into his power and learning to get more loft in his swing, but Marson has good plate discipline and puts the ball in play.

Forget The Regular Season: Marlins lefthander Aaron Thompson had his control escape him this season with Double-A Carolina, which has resulted in a 6.03 ERA in 15 starts. When Thompson shut out Mobile earlier this month for seven innings with no walks and eight strikeouts, the more than half a dozen scouts in attendance were impressed. He then proceeded to allow 12 runs in 7 2/3 innings over his next two starts. The stuff is still there for Thompson, who still has a clean delivery and the ability to induce plenty of ground balls. His slider is a plus pitch and he has a good changeup that he could mix in more frequently to complement his tailing 88-91 mph fastball … Outfielder Brandon Jones looked like he could be a solid big leaguer this year for the Braves. Instead, Jones started the year with Triple-A Richmond after a rough spring training. After hitting .278/.316/.463 with one unintentional walk and 16 strikeouts in a June big league stint, Jones found himself back in the minors, where he hit .260/.343/.405 in 346 at-bats. Jones, 24, finds himself jockeying for position in the Braves system with outfielders Jason Heyward, Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez breathing down his neck.

Keep An Eye On: The Rockies traded righthanded reliever Zach Simons to the Tigers earlier this season for Jason Grilli, and the Tigers like what they have seen so far. In 52 2/3 innings for high Class A Lakeland, Simons has a 2.22 ERA and 61 strikeouts thanks to a 92-95 mph fastball that touches 97. At 23, Simons’ control still lags behind the curve, as he’s also walked 28 batters in the Florida State League … Marlins outfielder Scott Cousins was having a nice season with high Class A Jupiter before he hit a wall at Carolina. The 2006 third-round pick will look to get back on track in the AFL, while Jupiter first baseman Logan Morrison will try to continue his rapid ascent. Morrison, who just turned 21 on Monday, has established himself as a top first base prospect, hitting .334/.404/.500 with a good approach at the plate and a sound swing.

X-Factor: Braves catcher Tyler Flowers might be the high Class A Carolina League MVP. Flowers, 22, hit .285/.427/.485 while playing his home games a difficult park for hitters at Myrtle Beach, showing power and the patience to draw walks, with 96 of them to go with 98 strikeouts. It looks like Flowers’ bat would play at any position, but the Braves want him to stick at catcher. Of course, with Brian McCann under contract through 2012 with a club option for 2013, they certainly have the luxury to be patient with Flowers.*

By Chasing My Tail

August 28, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio Of course you have to have runners on to score but 1-8 is not going to be full of great hitters. All I am saying is that to have a big RBI guy late in the order is a good thing!BL

are you the poster formerly known as Chase ?

By Original Jon

August 28, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Big question for everyone…We’re not bringing up Hanson or Medlen because they’d be overmatched???? Or we’re concerned about their innings?

Being concerned about their workload means NOT sending them to Arizona. TommyP

Guess you don’t read much huh? Well, if you would have read the blog that DOB took the time to write up, you would have read this.

• Wren said we won’t see any of the Braves’ top young prospects in September, including the pitchers like Tommy Hanson and Kris Medlen.*

He said the reasoning was two-fold: 1. The Braves want to monitor innings on those guys, including Medlen, who’s starting on a regular basis for the first time since high school, and 2. “roster management.”

In other words, to add any of them, including Schafer, to the 40-man roster now would require the Braves take someone off and possibly lose them in the Rule 5 Draft. So don’t expect to see Schafer or the hot young pitchers in September. Sorry to break the news to you, folks. David O’Brien

Read the blog first wont ya instead of crying and whining about why things arent going the way you would like them.

By Jeff R

August 28, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

You know what, DOB, you’re hunch about Hampton may just be right. There’s no huge downside for the Mets or the Cards to take a chance on Hampton. They’d only have to give up a low minors prospect - not top rated - for Ol’ Mike. I bet that’s what will happen.

By Braveheart

August 28, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

How could anyone be upset with what they got back for Kotsay? Kotsay is always injured, is as average as grits, is 30 games away from the end of his contract, won’t be a Brave next season and was just getting in the way of getting a look-see at some of younguns on the farm. Adding him to the Red Sox roster or not was not gonna be the end of the world for the Red Sox. What the hell did your lamebrain expect back for Kotsay? He didn’t have any value left. At least they got back a young guy who is toolsy and put up pretty stats this year.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Nolie, I would add to your 3:25 AM post that RBI matter because that means runs but they are more of a team stat rather than a stat that you should judge individuals on.

By richbrave

August 28, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

ncscoots:

Like your take on HAMPTON and one. More likely that two outsiders at #1 and #2.

Question about ESCOBAR. What’s he like in the club-house.? If he’s poison, he needs to go.

By BL

August 28, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Did anyone catch McCann’s massive F bomb in the dugout last night?

By TommyP

August 28, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Original Jon: Learn some tact.

By David O’Brien August 27, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this Oh, and John10: regarding Fall League. Hanson and Medlen aren’t on 40-man roster, and I’m sure the Braves would rather see them pitch against elite prospects in the AFL than against major leaguers they probably aren’t ready to face yet. It’s a natural step in development. Why would you pitch them here in September rather than in the Arizona Fall League, where you can evaluate them in a relaxed setting where they’re not likely to be overwhelmed or try to do too much facing the likes of Hanley Ramirez, Lance Berkman and Ryan Howard?

Seems like YOU might have the reading problem.

By The Pretender

August 28, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

*”Don’t confront me with my failures

I had not forgotten them”*

I’m going to pretend that was aimed at everyone here who thinks Frank Wren isn’t just as disappointed with this season as they are.

By LivininAL

August 28, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

I am just curious about folks thinking. If the Braves dont trade Hampton, and he has 3-4 more quality starts, do you try to resign him or not? If so what terms would you offer him a contract?

By Howie from Poughkeepsie

August 28, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I think that the real reason that the ‘hot’ prospects are not being brought up is the negative/losing attitude in the clubhouse. That attitude can be corrected in 2009 with the signing of some key veteran players with the large amount of money freed up from the contracts of Hampton, Smoltz, Glavine and Tex. (Even if the three pitchers are brought back, they will command alot less salary). It’s smart to leave the prospects home and bring them into spring training when hopefully there will be a positive attitude. When the Braves were doing well, it was always a positive to bring up a hot prospect in September to see how a winning clubhouse works. In this case it could be dangerous.

By Original Jon

August 28, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

TommyP, Ummm, isnt that what I just told you?

They are not bringing up Hanson or Medlen because they do not want to add them to the 40 man roster. They can have them play in the AFL without adding them to the roster, thus not starting their options clock, so to speak. That is the answer I was giving.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Did anyone catch McCann’s massive F bomb in the dugout last night?

Is that news?

Howie from Poughkeepsie, maybe you missed this part of DOB’s piece concerning the reasons the youngsters aren’t being called up:

1. The Braves want to monitor innings on those guys, including Medlen, who’s starting on a regular basis for the first time since high school, and 2. “roster management.”

In other words, to add any of them, including Schafer, to the 40-man roster now would require the Braves take someone off and possibly lose them in the Rule 5 Draft. So don’t expect to see Schafer or the hot young pitchers in September. Sorry to break the news to you, folks.

If they thought those players were ready and didn’t have to consider roster management, do you seriously think they would keep those players down because of a “losing attitude”? If they are playing professional baseball, they better be able to handle playing on a losing team.

By Lawton

August 28, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Key Largo

C’mon. You know better than that. Posting his rankings in those stats and saying there are 30 MLB teams thus making him above average is a skewed perspective.

You omit AVG, OBP and SLG. The only reason he ranks slightly higher than 15th in those other categories is because of his # of plate appearances. Given more opportunities than other players, he should have more runs, hits, rbi, hr, etc than other players at his position.

Lets look at where he ranks among 2B who have at least 300 of plate appearances. There are 32 of them, so that is a pretty fair representation.

AVG: 23rd OBP: 18th SLG: 18th

That’s all below average.

The fairest conclusion across the board is that KJ is league average offensively. Statistically, he is league average defensively as well.

Further, unless he has a stellar September, his offensive numbers over the final 4 months of the season will be near the bottom of the league at his position. His numbers since June 1 are absolutely anemic.

In MLB, league average players who slump significantly over the final 3-4 months of the season tend to lose their every day job.

If the Braves want to compete next, they will certainly need to get substantially more out of the 2B position than they have got this season.

By the way, my first preference at 2B next season is’t Martin Prado either. I’d rather see him in a utility role again next season.

By Jeff321

August 28, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Did Bobby Cox have anything crafty to say about the enormous jack Boyer gave up last night? I was thinking maybe something like, “Look to next year for more of the same from my favorite bullpen boy.”

By Cecil34

August 28, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

BL

I heard it.

McFann your boy was mightily upset about that foul pop…

As for Kotsay….

Good player, but unfortunately is going to miss 6 to 7 weeks every year due to his back issues, which aren’t going away.

Not good if you are counting on him to start.

Good luck to him.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

uga-brave, much as I like Kelly personally, your 12:05 assessment might be one of the best I’ve seen here. I’d say he’s a little better offensively (potentially) than you suggest, especially considering his relatively little inexperience. But otherwise, pretty solid evaluation on your part.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Original Jon, Shaun: Thanks for the accurate answers regarding Medlen, Hanson, Schafer and options clocks, etc. Of course, if some choose not to follow the logic, not much you can do to convince them. Actually, not anything you can do.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Lawton, I’m not sure if Johnson will lose his job. But one more stat to consider is his age. He has a career track record of solid offense and he’ll only be 27 next season. I’d say there is at least a 50/50 shot that he’ll be at least as good as his career numbers next season.

All that said, no player should be untouchable and if the right deal comes along the Braves should trade him. 27 is not extremely young for a baseball player, Johnson is not a superstar and his salary is only going to rise.

If the Braves’ front office really thinks they can contend next season (seems like they do), it may be a good plan to have Johnson and Prado split time at second and give Prado some time at third as a safety net for Chipper. Have Prado rotate around the infield and give him 100-plus starts.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Jeff321: Yeah, Cox usually says things like “Look to next year for more of the same from my favorite bullpen boy.” Man, you’ve got it nailed.

By Chop Chop

August 28, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

I like when McCann drops F-bombs. I just hope those F-bombs make McFann’s ears bleed.

Fiddlesticks, indeed.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

BL Did anyone catch McCann’s massive F bomb in the dugout last night?

ive got DVR, so i rewound it and watched it twice, turning up the volume. im pretty sure he said “HIT the BALL!” as he slammed his bat and helmet, not an F-bomb. but yeah, i heard it, and while i wish he had “hit the ball” and not gotten frusterated, i do like to see guys get upset when they dont come through. obviously, not to the point of pressing and getting worse, but i like guys who really care.

this is one reason i like escobar, and dont have a problem with his additude. he is a fierce competitor, and there is no doubt about it. i dont know if he is liked in the clubhouse, but i know that ehre is a language barrier, so id bet he isnt real close to anyone, but he has the demeanor to be a leader on a team if he harnesses it right.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

TommyP, regarding your 6:45 a.m. post: So tell me, why does the Arizona Fall League even exist? (I ask you because you seem to have all the answers.)

By Steve from OH

August 28, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

I also find it funny that the people who think Schafer has had too little time in AA are some of the people who think Hanson should come up, considering he’s spent little over half the season in AA.

By Scuba-Steve

August 28, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB…I don’t know about you, but I am going to miss “Generation Kill”…I watched the last episode yesterday on my DVR and I have to say I loved that show!

By BL

August 28, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Nolie I am having this conversation in context to Jeff, and/or our 5-7 hole hitter. I understand RBIs are not the tell all by any means. I am just saying having a good RBI guy middle to late in the order is good, even if his OPS needs drastic improvement. Just because Jeff doesn’t have a great OPS doesn’t mean he can’t be a better than average 5-7 hole hitter. Great hitters do have great OPS and usually SLG.
Chasing My Tail Not Chase. Long time Braves fan, new to the blog this year (late this year).

By Blue Magic

August 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

DOB: Any chance they shut Jurrjens down when the Sept callups come up - or atleast limit his innings / number of pitches?

I rather see him fresh and be able to deal next year than to keep throwing him out there now

By JC from UT

August 28, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know what type a prospect,if a prospect at all, Jon Owings is? He seems to have decent #’s.

By Jeff R

August 28, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson… stats don’t reflect everything. There is attitude and mental errors, stuff that management would evaluate as well. And, right now, based on indirect information, it doesn’t seem that management is satisfied with Johnson.

By BL

August 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Shaun I think that is news. Probably the loudest one I have ever heard out of the dugout, even over BC’s all-time greats. Was kinda worried about any possible ramifications for our all-star catcher since it was so crystal clear (also there was a reference to The Man Upstairs.

Is all of the stats you consistently dig up and compare news? Go find us a ratio of Kelly’s SLG, OPS, and TA when he wears high socks and bats in the 7 hole. We could use that on our next FA pickup.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

seeing kelly hit that triple last night reminded me of what he did when he was on. he would rip that ball down the line as well as anyone. he got alot of triples and doubles like that. in fact, it seems like when he is doing well, he hits alot of balls down both lines.

what sucks is that weve seen how good he can be. i wish he could be a little more consistant with it.

by the way, did you notice that he didnt even think his triple was fair? when he swings he tends to follow through alot before running, but last night he stood there even longer, like he expected it to be foul. and he still legged out the triple.

By BL

August 28, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

DAP That was a definite F bomb preceded with a reference to the good Lord before it. I like McCann and i know almost all of them cuss like sailors, just stinks they grabbed it on the mic.

By McFann Ô

August 28, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

No no…I left the room after the pop-up. Just needed to be “alone” for a minute. Uh…But I tell ya, they need to ditch that microphone by the dugout.

DAP—

I like to see—see, not hear—guys get mad at themselves when they do dumb things…er, don’t come through. But yeah, they can’t press too hard…and that could be Mac’s problem right now…

Random—

That many turtles? Dang…Bet that baby was cute! We found a baby turtle a about ten years ago…Kept him for a few days. Some woods near Stone Mountain used to have some really tiny turtles, too.

Chop Chop I just hope those…make McFann’s ears bleed.

Meaning…?

By flange1

August 28, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Interesting information on KJ.

He sounds like a man without a position.

I wonder if the Braves would consider moving him to 1B. Maybe Kotchman has more value than KJ in the trade market and you move KJ to first.

By JC from UT

August 28, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

DOB: If some of this talk about the Padres cutting payroll and trading Peavy comes to be true, and SD wants Shafer as part of the package, do you think Gorkys would have a shot at cf next season or is he stll considered too far away?

By BL

August 28, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

JC from UT Jon could be good one day. He is Micah’s (AZ) little brother just FYI. He has battled some injury issues and I just saw he is batting .274 in the minors this year. I think he is pretty avg, no tool really glares at you. Has some pop though.

DAPS Sorry. Misread.

By Lawton

August 28, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Good points at 9:53 AM.

And, I completely agree. If they don’t bring in a proven veteran to play 2B, it makes sense that they would allow KJ and Prado to compete for playing time and even split playing time. I would guess that Omar Infante would be an option there as well.

St Louis is a good example this season of a team that has worked several players (all very affordable) in at 2B that have produced pretty decent results. Also, the production from guys like Ankiel and Ludwick give them more flexibility at 2B because they don’t rely so much on that offensive production from 2B.

I would say that if the Braves are able to get some consistent production from LF, RF and 1B, then the offensive production from 2B because a little less critical and Bobby could use the position to go with the hot hand. Bobby could even use the position to keep 2 or 3 versatile utility type players fresh by getting them more AB’s than a bench player would typically get.

What would you think of a scenario where Infante, KJ and Prado all split time at 2B knowing that all 3 could help at other positions if needed (injuries, covering for days off, etc.)? It would seem that appraoch would provide a stronger bench as well. I’d rather look over and see one or two of those guys available off the bench every day than, say, Ruben Gotay. I guess one concern would be that the double play combination may not gel as much as if you had the same 2Bman in there every day.

By richbrave

August 28, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

DAP:

Did you just answer my question about ESCOBAR.? I spoke to him for a moment last year in Spanish, and his response and demeanor seemed to indicate he wanted notoriety and maybe some money. Could be he’s frustrated due to personal issues rather than the well-being of the team.

And don’t forget his long-term friend is gone(PENA). Maybe he thinks PENA didn’t get a fair shake in ST and from the organization. Maybe he’s beginning to dislike ATLANTA’s business and wants out also. Maybe…. Well it’s anybody’s guess who doesn’t see the players on a regular basis, right DOB?

By Lew

August 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

We’re upset because McCann cussed? Damn, when did cussing in baseball start? Society must be going to Hell In a Handbasket, or something. Get rid of the mic.

By Jeff321

August 28, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

You Escobar haters really amuse me! I mean, isn’t this the guy who doesn’t speak English or Spanish? How on earth could he be a clubhouse poison? Does he talk smack through his interpreter?

With that said, who cares what goes on in the clubhouse? Did I miss the announcement that MLB’s decided to give world series rings for the best club house etiquette?

By DAP

August 28, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

BL no, i dont think so. like i said, i played it back several times. not that it matters, unless the fcc fines fox sports for it.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Is someone really serious about whether it “matters” that Mac was caught cussing on TV? Wow. Did anyone ever watch Greg Maddux’s starts very closely? Apparently not.

By TommyP

August 28, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

DOB: It exists for the same reason that the 40-man roster exists.

I’m stating my opinion on things, Dave. I believe that’s the whole point of this format, no?

If stating my opinions on the state of the Braves makes you feel that “I have all the answers”, then you fall into that category as well. That’s just dense, man.

Why the Braves are so concerned about starting the options clock on these players is beyond me.

Bring up a few of these kids and if they perform admirably during the tail-end of a futile season, you have an idea that these kids can handle major league pitching.

However, if you keep them down on the farm and send them to the Arizona Fall League, you’re still not sure if they can handle the bigs.

If you wait ‘til spring training where they’ll see tons of rookies, spring roster invitees, and veterans working on perhaps one pitch and not necessarily on performance, again, have you learned anything about that player and if he can handle big league pitching/hitting? No.

But I guess we can all look forward to glowing reports out of Scottsdale this Fall from our prospects and enjoy watching the potential of Elmer Dessens at Turner Field in September.

By Lee in S GA

August 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

This team and management has more problems to worry about than a player causing a little ruckus in the clubhouse or some player saying a cuss word. After this lousy season if some clubhouse controversy or cussing was not going on I would be worried about the attitudes of these players actually wanting to win and on them being too content to losing. I suppose all the Braves players should just be happy they have Cox as their manager and they are an Atlanta Brave. Everthing should be just just peachy king.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

JC from UT: Gorkys is 20 years old, hitting .269 in A-ball. Can’t see anyway Braves pencil him in as starting CF to begin the 2009 season. Josh Anderson or Blanco are options if it isn’t Schafer, so why would they bypass those options to get to Hernandez way before he’s ready?

By DAP

August 28, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

richbrave Did you just answer my question about ESCOBAR.?

i wasnt really responding to your post in particular, jusr weighing in on my opinion of escobar.

id say your last sentence is pretty right on, its hard to really know. you seem to have more info, since you actually spoke to him, but only for a moment, so…?

i cant speak with certinty about his demeanor. from what i can see, i like it, thats all im saying. it seems to be a cocky-in-a-good-way kinda ‘tude to me. but, obviously, i dont know how he relates to his team or managment.

im sure there are plenty of baseball players that i think i would like but would end up not if i met them, and vice versa.

By Brian

August 28, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Does anyone else notice Ron Gant looks like he’s fixing to crack up all the time? It’s pretty funny if you pay attention to it. Another thing, is it me or is that Braves intro song one of the most annoying things you’ve ever heard? Anyways, I guess why Escobars attitude bothers me more than it should is it kinda reminds me of Jose Reyes. Can’t stand that little prick! The Braves don’t need that attitude, we’re too good for that.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

lew we cant get rid of the dugout mic, because hten we wouldnt hear bobby’s cute nicknames for everyone, or the “c’mon kid!” he gives everyone, even juilo franco.

jeff321 i do care about the clubhouse. i want my team to have good character AND win games. thats just me though, im sure alot of people only care about what happens on the field.

By Crimson Mafia

August 28, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

If you don’t like cussing, don’t sit behind Coach K during a game or read his lips.

By BL

August 28, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

DOB Just funny discussion about Mac. People just jump in with arguments on here not listening to all the posts.

Did you actually listen closely to the telecast? Apparently not. (I think the bloggers have heard enough F bombs from our coach not to make a big deal unless it is warranted.) They snuck up right behind Mac and that coupled with the awesome attendance made it a little different. Mine as well have had a bullhorn. I for one laughed my @ss off. At least someone in the dugout has some fire that is not directed towards the umps. Not the end of the world, just good to laugh at something other than our last night.

“Just gotta tip your cap to their guy last night.”

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Why the Braves are so concerned about starting the options clock on these players is beyond me.TommyP

Obviously, it is. Because you don’t understand the need to protect players from Rule 5 draft, and the fundamental reason why clubs don’t rush guys to the 40-man unless they’re sure they’re ready. You don’t protect guys before you have to, unless they are very advanced and already demonstrating they’re ready for major league success.

By Lawton

August 28, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

DOB,

you expecting a wild off-season? A little more of a workload for you than in past off-seasons? The possibility of significant roster turnover, possibility of some coaching staff turnover, top prospets in Fall/Winter Leagues (not all in the same locale) — I guess I could see a pretty active off-season for you.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Bring up a few of these kids and if they perform admirably during the tail-end of a futile season, you have an idea that these kids can handle major league pitching.TommyP

And if they’re not, well, you’ve only wasted one option year so that you could see them pitch in meaningless games in September, when you could have continued their natural progress by having them pitch in the Fall League and then face major league hitters during the following spring training, thereby getting an idea of whether they’re ready without having to put them on the 40-man roster to do so.

You put a guy on the 40-man roster before he needs to be there, it’s just one less guy you can protect from the Rule 5 draft, and one more fringe-or-better prospect you’ll lose to another team that plucks him for a mere $50,000 claiming fee in that December draft.

Makes little or no sense, frankly, your suggest ion of adding non-roster guys with under a year of experience above A-ball to the 40-man roster so they can play in September games. Sounds like you’re thinking solely from the perspective of a fan who wants to see them, rather than thinking of what makes the most sense, which is having them play in fall or winter leagues and inviting them to camp as non-roster invitees.

The Braves have a whole “matrix” and flow chart of all their players on a big wall, and they have a plan for trying to both bring them along and get them ready for the majors and to protect as many of their prospects as they can without exposing them to waivers or to the Rule 5 draft. In this particular case, with these non-roster guys you’re referring to who don’t have to be protected this winter, it really seems pretty obvious. In many other cases, it’s a difficult call. But in these few cases, I really don’t see why you don’t understand the decisions.

Oh, well. You’re right: This forum is wide open and you’re certainly free to express how you feel about it or ask questions, whatever. I’m just trying to explain to you why, as I understand it, they’re making some decisions the way they have.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Lawton, definitely going to be a far busier offseason than most.

By Bulldog Drummond

August 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

DOB

Of course it matters that MAC was caught cussing up a storm last night. It matters that the camera catches your beloved Bobby using foul language. It matters to the younger viewers who may just feel this is acceptable behavior.

Do you ever grow tired of defending Braves players and management in almost every situation?

Did you major in journalism at Hayseed Tech in Kansas—or cheerleading?

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

If you don’t like cussing, don’t sit behind Coach K during a game or read his lips.Crimson Mafia

Yes, and don’t sit behind me while I’m writing during a game, either.

Scuba-Steve: Yes, I’m definitely gonna miss Generation Kill. I, too, loved the series. Loved the realism, the irreverence. Loved the warts-and-all look at some normal (and some not so much) guys thrust into a very abnormal, ridiculously stressful situation, as I’m sure all wars must be, but their particular case had extenuating circumstances.

By Dosomething

August 28, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Big deal Mac said that last night! Mac is overworked. Anybody would be p** by not hitting & knowing why! Let the poor guy have a break. Corky might as well have stayed if Sammons is going to ride the bench too!

By Drummerdad

August 28, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

I have a friend who told me he was very careful about where he sat with his kids when Maddux was pitching. He said the guy could make thin air blush.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Bulldog Drummond, is the biggest worry for parents really whether or not major league players use fowl language when they make an out?

By Drummerdad

August 28, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, You got an idea as to how many games this team loses this year?

By Bruce's Pearl

August 28, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Case in point DOB,Dan Uggla was a rule V draftee.In the Braves situation they can not afford to lose anyone who could be a legitimate prospect.

By Braveheart

August 28, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

TommyP, I think you also have to worry about ML service time. I’m not exactly sure how it works but if you call some of those guys up now, you prematurely start running the clock towards arbitration and free agency.

That’s one reason you don’t see alot of big prospects called up anymore in September. It seems like you are more likely to see filler and trade bait like Anderson, Lillibridge and Brandon Jones get the call up to the show in September than you are to see legit prospects.

Some of us have also often said the Braves need to retain players more through their prime years. One good way to do that is to call them up later and not waste ML service when the players are young, not really ready and not productive or consistent enough.

Would you rather watch Schafer walk away for the big bucks 6 years from now as he enters his prime because you rushed him now before he was really ready?

Would the 30 days of prematurely seeing him now at the age 21 be worth seeing him sign for the big bucks and play an entire prime years season late in his 20s for another team when you could have had club control of him during that prime years season?

I’d rather steal a year of Hanson and Schafer and the like on the back end during their prime years when you are getting tremendous bang for the buck from them.

If I recall correctly, it was one of the reasons the Rays sent Longoria down to the minors in the beginning of the season. They were trying to steal a year in his prime 6 years from now.

I think Wren and Frenchy had that discussion when they sent Frenchy down to the minors. Wren promised Frenchy it wouldn’t be any longer than a certain period of time because he didn’t want Frenchy thinking they were playing ML service time games with Frenchy in order to steal money and a season of free agency from him.

That’s my read on it. That 40 man, options, ML service time stuff is confusing……….

By Jeff321

August 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Who cares if McStud said a “bad” word? I mean really, ya probably hear much worse than that on the street, eh?

By The Scatman

August 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

You Escobar haters really amuse me! I mean, isn’t this the guy who doesn’t speak English or Spanish? How on earth could he be a clubhouse poison? Does he talk smack through his interpreter?

Escobar makes really mean faces at everyone.

And he won’t share his chocolate puddin’.

By Lew

August 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Fowl Language? Is perhaps, the Famous Chicken coming to Turner Field?

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Who woulda in April thru June ever thought we would hear bloggers talking about Mike Hampton being trade bait at the deadline or that some of us would be talking about signing him for a couple of more years. (actually a minimal number of us have always had some faith in MH).

Dogs and cats living together kinda stuff!

A few years ago Jon Mark Owings (Micah’s brother) was listed as having the best outfield arm in the Braves minor league organization.

By McFann Ô

August 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

DAP—

I care about the clubhouse, too. I gotta say, if I could build my own Major League team (or be Frank Wren for a day, but that’s kinda scary), I would pick guys based on their character.

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Hampton has a 3.60 ERA in last 3 starts, and 3.33 in 4 of his last 5 outings combined.

Was fairly brutal in 3 of his first 4 starts, but is evening out well.

If I were a contender, I would be watching.

Interesting situation to be sure!

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Jo Jo Reyes has pitched acceptably (sometimes very effectively) in half of his starts. 9 of 18 starts

Charlie Morton ditto what Reyes had done in 7 out of his 13 starts.

Hampton decent 4 out of 7.

JJJ: 20 out of 26.

Hudson: 16 out of 23.

(these are not quality starts, but starts where they at least keep the Braves in it.)

Definite room for improvement, but not a total disaster by any stretch.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Anyone read/hear that Boras is at it again, trying to game the system to get a draft pick (and himself) more money?

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

McFann Amen for character. Work ethic, integrity, grit….

By DAP

August 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

if hampton ends on a good note, i would offer him a two year, $12mil contract. i might go as high as $14mil. but i would back load it. $4mil the first year, $8mil the second. that way, if he pitches well next year, we have good trade bait, because he will be coming off a full year and wont be super expensive. (this would also be a good reason to keep him around)

By Original Jon

August 28, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

TommyP You are right about one thing, this is the ending months of a futile season. Season is over for us dude, way beyond it. There is not even a speck of glimmer of hope for us. So for you to want to bring up prospects and add them to the 40 man roster, essentially starting their options (and only for a month mind you) is just assanine. Dessens is the type of guy teams sign in order to give regular young starters, who have not thrown this many innings in a year before, a breather, like Jurrjens for example. No need to waste his arm and possibly injure him on a season that is lost. Right now, wins are not as important as they were when we were only 7 games out with 2 months to go. So signing a guy like Dessens makes sense.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, You got an idea as to how many games this team loses this year?Drummerdad

I’ll go with “plenty more.”

Anyone go see My Morning Jacket last night?

By Mac's F-bomb

August 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Everyone who doesn’t like me can go f themselves.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Did you major in journalism at Hayseed Tech in Kansas—or cheerleading?Bulldog Drummond

Actually, it was Hayseed Physiology.

Then I got my Master’s Degree in Deflecting Trite Criticism.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, that Boras situation could get very ugly. The man can’t avoid controversy for a month, can he?

By Rotorob in KY

August 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Lew- Loved your 12:23.

By BravesFan79

August 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Screw all you so called fans that keep saying “forget about Glavine and Smoltz and move on”

Your about as bright as the Packers fans that said “forget about Farve” until they saw his replacement actually play…

Smoltz could pitch in my bulpen till he was 80 for all i care! And as long as we sign Glavine to a 3mill or less contract i see no reason not to bring him back as a 4th or 5th starter.

And im tired of yall yall fools lumping Smoltz, Glavine and the Tin man Hampton all together. Smoltz was STILL DOMINATE just THIS season!!

By Big Easy

August 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

DOB Then I got my Master’s Degree in Deflecting Trite Criticism.

Gold. Pure, Phelpsian gold.

~E~

By Braveheart

August 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Anyone read/hear that Boras is at it again, trying to game the system to get a draft pick (and himself) more money?

I thought it was interesting what the Pirates people were saying about the claims of Boras that the contract was not filed timely. In defending that kid so hard on that claim, he might end up costing another one of his guys $6 million dollars. The contract for the Royals kid that Boras reps was actually sent in later than the Pirates kid . Very interesting to see how this one turns out and to find out what Boras is up to and whether he finally pulled one maneuver too many and is gonna get himself in some big trouble over this one ………. it looks like a conflict of interest to represent the Royals kid and the Pirates kid now

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t know any of the particulars on the Boras fiasco, but I sincerely hope that he has screwed up majorly! I would hope that the youngsters would have a lawsuit against him. Hit him where it really hurts.

Maybe some of these young guys will see what he is all about, and go with a more respectable agent.

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Boras screw up some major leaguer’s free agency or contract a few years ago by not filing on time?

By McFann Ô

August 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Wayne Amen for character. Work ethic, integrity, grit….

How true! I always like to take that into account when I’m choosing my favorite players.

Kotsay doubled!

Ha…If McCann ever finds out they picked him up on the mic, he might react similar to this…

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

If the Braves were on TBS this year, would the average Braves fan watch the game or the Convention this week (or next week)??

How about the Peachtree viewers???

Just curious.

(for me, I am torn. MLB Audio and FoxNews going at the same time at night!!)

By Cecil34

August 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

McFann

Maybe Mac wouldn’t cuss so much if he were playing first….

Just kiddin’ ya ;-)

You would be interested to know I released a red-eared slider back in Mulberry Park lake the other day!

By DonCoburleone

August 28, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

DOB right on about Maddux cursing when he pitches. I used to love that about him. And it was usually (at least the ones you could see or hear on TV or in the stands) on like a pitch that he missed his location on. He would be trying to hit the outside corner and miss by a few inches and you’d see his glove go over his mouth and hear a “VUCK!” (with an F of course). GOOD STUFF!

DOB I have a question and don’t get angry, its just a question: If the Braves are trying to compete NEXT year and are going to be signing some FA’s to help accomplish that goal, doesn’t it make sense to bring up some of the young guys in September and see what they can do at the ML level? You telling me there is NOBODY on the 40 man that the Braves would be willing to lose in the Rule V draft??

By Jamie in Richmond

August 28, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Rodrigo Lopez? Elmer Dessens? Way to look towards the future.

Did Mr Wrenn not get the memo that Leo’s no longer working with the Braves? Last I checked, it was Leo who was famous for the reclamation projects…I’ve yet to see McDowell turn around a Dennis Martinez, John Burkett, or Chris Hammond.

I understand the explanation as far as options and not wanting to use one one a prospect. I understand, although I don’t necessarily agree.

But for me…I’d rather call up some joker like Chuckie, Lerew, Bueno or another guy who’s not a top prospect than run a 37 yr old guy out there who’s greatest accomplishment is having glue named after him.

Play the kids…

By Wayne in Utah

August 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

McFann Good comic strip!

I have only been heard to drop the “f” bomb when working on electrical problems in the attic!

Gotta run for about 12 hours…..

Go Braves!

By DonCoburleone

August 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

I mean seriously DOB, aren’t guys like Julian Tavarez, Vladimir Nunez, (newly acquired) Elmer Dessens, Ruben Gotay, etc. on the 40 man roster? Are we really worried about losing these guys? I can understand not wanting to bring up young guys if the main reason is either not wanting to rack up their innings or fear of damaging them psychologically if they get roped. But to keep them off the 40 man so we can “protect” stiffs like Tavarez, Nunez, Gotay, etc. is laughable.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone, the Braves probably wouldn’t want to give away anyone worthy of a 40-man roster spot if they don’t have to.

By p

August 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Another “cheap” prospect doesn’t make it. Look for the Braves in the cellar for 3 or 4 years

By Goodoleboy58

August 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

14 Million for Hampton? Are you crazy?

By TommyP

August 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Original Jon: Then there are a lot of teams that have been asinine for decades ‘cause it happens every single year. (bringing players up to see if they can handle ML pitching or hitting)

Ever hear of “September callups”? Why do the rules allow you to expand your roster to 40 in September? So you can see what your minor leaguers can do (if you’re a losing team).

Let’s see….on the 40 man roster right now: Bueno, Dessens, DeSalvo, Vlad Nunez, Ridgway, Tavarez….please tell me we’re not afraid of losing these guys.

We should have had several of these young kids up here August 1st.

Giants sure seem to be using this time to evaluate their young talent.

Last thing…the season is a waste UNLESS you make use of it. I never said anything about wins and losses at this point. But use it to your advantage.

By DonCoburleone

August 28, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

And for all the true Braves fans on this blog, I’ve got a question for you (saw this question on a blog I was reading earlier): What does it mean when a fan “gives up on a season”? Do you stop watching/going to the games? Do you watch but just not care as much?

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond, how about Campillo, Carlyle, Bennett, Ken Ray?

What do the Braves have to lose by signing Dessens and Lopez?

And, frankly, you’d rather run those guys out there in meaningless games than anyone younger who could get hurt.

By DonCoburleone

August 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, see my 1:55 Post…

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone, why use up option years or start service-time clocks on young guys in order to call them up and play meaningless games?

Just play out the string with mediocre vets until the offseason when roster spots open up.

By Lee in S GA

August 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

If the Braves were on TBS this year, would the average Braves fan watch the game or the Convention this week (or next week)??

Wayne

I not sure if the convention would have anything to do with the viewing as much as many “average fans” have probably already given up watching this team play much at all. The entire game anyway. Most average fans I would say are not as fanatic about the Braves as many on this blog are and viewing will tend to go down with the performance of play. At least most of the people I personally know as fans anyway. My viewing has decreased over the last 6 weeks. I suppose this is what many would call fair-weather fans but it is what it is. The seats in the stands will reflect this also.

I like the Braves but I will say my viewing and radio listening has dropped over the last 4 to 6 weeks of play.

By MGL

August 28, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Jamie - Since they will have to clear 40-man roster spots after the end of the season to keep those currently on the 60-day DL, would you rather they exposed people like Chucky, Lerew, or Bueno, or let someone like Dessens go?

It makes sense to me to get some arms in here for the rest of the season that we don’t have to worry about protecting.

By John

August 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

I saw MMJ last night. Rocked the Fox. I’ve seen em 3 times before. The Tabernacle in 06 and out in Denver in 07. Each and every time they get better. I was hoping that we wouldn’t get the entire new album as i like bands to mix it up with all tunes from their albums. The played alot of the new with some fantastic older tunes. Wish they would have played 2 nights at the Fox. I’d bet they could have sold em both out. Great rock n’ roll band.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

goodoldboy58 14 Million for Hampton? Are you crazy?

nope. are you?

By Brentwood

August 28, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

D.O.B.:

Try J.J. Cale’s “Greatest Hits” CD, or any of his material over that next cup of coffee, rainy day, or evening. Highly recommended.

Brentwood

By Jamie in Richmond

August 28, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

* Shaun*

Campillo had about 10 very good starts. Gotta do it a little longer before I consider him amongst the others.

Bennett? He’s gross. If how is is now is the pot at the end of the rainbow, I don’t want it.

To your question: What do the Braves have to lose by signing Dessens and Lopez? If they signed either of them for $5 then my answer would be they’ve wasted $5, to keep it pithy…

As for your argument that young kids could get hurt in meaningles games…I’ll assume you were kidding. Wait, you were serious..? Oh…

A player can get hurt anytime. By your thinking, we should prohobit JJ, Esco, Mac, and the rest of our best players from playing in Sept as well…afterall, we’d hate to risk them getting hurt. Every other team (Giants are the best example) are letting their top shelf kids get their feet wet, and the Giants have been out of the race since it began.

In all seriousness, they don’t lose a hell of a lot of money in signing either of those clowns, Elmer Fudd or Rodrigo. But if I were Frank Wrenn, I’d want to show the fan base and the organization that we’re committed to the future, and I dont think this sends any kind of message towards that point. And yeah, I’d rather see Bueno pitch, or someone else who’s not a top prospect, than see one of those knuckleheads throw, no question. Just my thoughts…

By DAP

August 28, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

wayne ive been switching back and forth between the games and the DNC. most of the interesting stuff (the amain speeches) has been happening when the games are over anyways. i did miss yunels game winning hit the other night because i had it on hillary’s speech.

By Thrillhouse44

August 28, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Giants sure seem to be using this time to evaluate their young talent. TommyP

Umm…I’m not heartbroken that the Braves are not following the Giants’ gameplan. They’re definitely not the organization I want the Braves to emulate.

DonC, giving up on a season, to me, means still watching games and caring about them, but realizing that the team just doesn’t have what it takes. Losses still suck and wins are still great. You just know there are going to be more losses than wins and that your favorite team isn’t going to make the post season. I also started following my NFL and college football teams a little earlier than normal this year.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone and others, I suppose Frank Wren is just an evil man that wants to keep his young players in the minors and doesn’t want his fans to see any of his young talent.

It has nothing to do with saving money and letting players develop.

I’m sure you are the same people who would complain if the Braves lost a young player or had to pay a young player a lot more money down the line because they called him up for a month of meaningless major league games.

By Jamie in Richmond

August 28, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

MGL

My answer to your question would be I’d rather see them release guys like Gotay, Norton, and half the bullpen to free up spots on the 40 man for callups. But that’s just me…

By MGL

August 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Another point - some of you are clamoring for multiple free agent acquisitions. Each one takes a roster spot.

By McFann :Ô:

August 28, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Cecil—

Haha…No, he might cuss more if he were playing first, ‘cause guys would keep hittin’ balls down the line for doubles!

; ) Just kiddin’ ya back!

Great job with the turtle!! You made McTurtle come out of his shell all the way, and that’s tough to do these days.

Wayne Good comic strip!

Thanks…Thought it fit perfectly…

Worst thing I ever say is crud…Well, OK, fiddlesticks…

8 >

By Goodoleboy58

August 28, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

DAP

If it were my 14 million dollars and I signed it over to Mike Hampton you could admit me.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond, why waste options and service time on young players when you have serviceable players to throw out there in meaningless games? The issue is as simple as that. Is the Braves front office in the business of sending messages or are they in the business of building a winning major league team? Hopefully the latter.

By McFann :Ô:

August 28, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Wayne (for me, I am torn. MLB Audio and FoxNews going at the same time at night!!)

Yeah, our TV goes back-and-forth as well.

Obviously, if it were up to me…

By DonCoburleone

August 28, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun I see your point about using “mediocre” (I would call them “unwatchable”) vets and not wanting to start the service time clock on young guys. And I would 100% agree with you IF FW and the organization were not banging the “We are going to sign some FA’s and compete in 2009” drum. This team is NOT going to compete in 2009 unless we sign a big time ACE, a legit #2 or 3 starter, and a power LF bat. And those 3 things are not going to happen. The only way we could compete in ‘09 is if we get BIG TIME contributions from players that are currently down on the farm, period.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58 *If it were my 14 million dollars and I signed it over to Mike Hampton you could admit me.

good one, made me laugh. :-)

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

My answer to your question would be I’d rather see them release guys like Gotay, Norton, and half the bullpen to free up spots on the 40 man for callups. But that’s just me…

So, you’d rather use up a young player’s option and start his service time which could lead to having to pay him more and make it a little more difficult for the Braves to sign or keep a player or could lead to the Braves losing a young player a year earlier than they would if they hadn’t called him up to play meaningless games at the major league level?

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IN THE CHUTE

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

The Braves should do what a handful of fans want them to do rather than work within the framework of roster, service time and contract rules that they know better than anyone in order to try to build a successful major league team.

By DAP

August 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

what would really be great in this last month is if brandon jones suddenly gets it and starts hitting like weve been hoping he would. also, i hope anderson gets hot and makes the CF choice tuff this offseason.

By Shaun

August 28, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone, what does getting contributions from current minor leaguers have to do with whether or not they should call them up in September?

If they can’t compete until 2010, 2011, 2012, that’s even more reason to avoid wasting an option year on a young player or starting their service time clock.

A new blog is up.

By Tomahawk Matt

August 28, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

F-bombs make my days so much easier…

The good old days with Maddux pitching… and all those mics around the field. You’d hear MaddDogg lettin ‘em fly twice a game at least. Why do you think he’s always putting his glove over his face after pitches?

I love Maddux. Maybe the best pitcher of his time through the 90’s. I think so.

GO BRAVES 2009!!!

By McF@#$!

August 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

I hope @#$! Kotsay has a @#$! month for the @#$! Red Sox (even though I can’t @#$!stand that @#$! team.)

I especially liked when ol Kots told the @#$! umpire to @#$! a @#$!

OK … Maybe today i@#$! McCann will hit a @#$! homerun.

Better still, it would be @#$! cool if the next time @#$! Francoeur hits into a @#$! double play then @#$! Bobby Cox says @#$! @#$! a @#$! @#$! to no one in particular but then @#$! McCann tells Cox to @#$! @#$! a @#$! @#$! and then destroys the @#$! water cooler.

By Einstein

August 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

I have 3 1/2 questions for you Braves experts: 1. What would Chipper bat if he was able to hit against Braves pitching? 2. What would Frenchy’s batting average be if he could hit against Braves-caliber pitching? 3. Is it possible for Blaine Boyer to pitch a complete inning without giving up a home run? Without even giving up a run? Thanks,

By Robbie T

August 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to hang on to Hampton,he is the best pitcher they have going right now.They are not getting quality starts from anyone else on the staff.They also need to sign him to a contract for next year if he continues to pitch like he is now.Mike is not a fool,he knows the Braves have stuck by him and i think he would be happy to sign a reasonable deal based on performance with the Braves.He has years of Major League experience,something the team could use next year.I’d rather see him signed than Smoltz or Glavine.He is showing that he can still pitch.At the age the other 2 guys are that may never happen.I was as flustrated as anyone (including Mike) at his failed comeback attemps but,he appears to have made good on it now.Barring another injury he should be stronger and better next year.And i see no other pichers out there that the Braves have a shot at signing that are any better than Hampton.With Liberty Media controlling the purse strings the Braves won’t compete with teams like the Yankees,Dodgers,Phillies.Mets,Red Sox,and others for the big money guys.Guys like Sabathia,Lowe,Sheets and Dempster will command big money from those teams.The Braves track record in past indicates they will not pay that kind of money.After those types of pitcher i don’t see anything better than Hampton left.This teams needs experienced ballplayers to win again.Sure they have some players such as Schaefer,Anderson,Jones,and Morton with exellent potential but,you can’t plug them all in at once.Frank Wren needs to spend whatever money is available to him on the urgent needs of the team.I see those needs as being two solid starting pitchers,at least one good setup reliever,a powerhitting corner outfielder and a solid backup catcher.He should use Jeff Francouer(who i think is done)Kelley Johnson,Clint Sammons,Gregor Blanco,Matt Diaz,Blaine Boyer,Manny Acosta and several minor leaguers as trade bait.Give Martin Prado the second base job.Insert one of the kids in centerfield if you can’t do any better.Bringing up a couple of young players a year and trying to put them into a everyday position or make them into a starter or releiver is enough.They need to keep good proven players in the other spots at all times.Injuries have handicapped the team this year.You simply can’t count on pitchers who are that close to collecting Social Security checks to carry your team.That along with what happend to Moylan,Hudson and Diaz along with the collapse of Francouer and the lack of outfield power doomed the team this year.The front office needs to step up and find better players to put on the field next year.