AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > August > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves have a chance vs. Fredi’s Fish
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Wouldn’t you know, a forecast for rain, rain and more rain threatens a home series that the Braves might actually have a chance to win.
OK, if you’ll stop laughing. I know the Braves are 2-12 with a 7.11 ERA in their past 14 games, and have lost 13 of their past 16 home games (boy, they really are awful right now, worst team in the NL at this moment).
But the Florida Marlins are reeling (pardon the pun), too. OK, not quite as badly as the Braves. But Fredi’s Fish are struggling mightily as they arrive for a scheduled three-gamer with the Braves at soggy Turner Field.
I’m guessing that one way or another, we’re gonna have a doubleheader on Thursday, when the forecast isn’t bad, just partly cloudy. If we can get one of these games in during the next two nights, it’ll be a credit to the Braves grounds crew and a very good drainage system they have at Turner Field.
This is the Marlins’ last visit, so they’ll really try to get in all these games. But it could be difficult unless the forecast suddenly changes. It’s supposed to rain quite a bit tonight and tomorrow.
Anyway, the Marlins: They’re 6-10 with a .223 batting average since Aug 8, and they’ve been pretty spotty now for two months, going 27-30 since June 22 after going 40-34 up to then.
It’s probably no coincidence that their slippage has directly coincided with a slump by All-Star second baseman Dan Uggla. I looked it up, and I mean it’s over exactly the same time period, the team’s dropoff and his.
The Marlins have hit .239 with 59 homers in 57 games since June 22, after hitting .257 with 111 homers in 74 games (40-34) before then. Their team ERA was almost the same during both stretches.
Uggla has hit .190 (29-for-153) with four homers, 14 RBI and 50 strikeouts with a .621 OPS in 45 games since June 22. Before then, he hit .296 with 23 homers, 33 RBIs and whopping 1.025 OPS.
Yes, that’s dramatic reversal. And no it didn’t begin with his nightmarish All-Star Game performance. His slump began a few weeks before that.
The Braves are 7-5 against the Marlins this season (yes, a good team the Braves have a winning record against). Tonight’s scheduled matchup is between two pitchers who’ve recently hit the skids, Jair Jurrjens and Florida’s Scott Olsen.
Olsen is 0-4 with a 5.05 ERA in his past six starts, although part of that’s due to awful run support (two runs or fewer while he was in five of those games). He’s 1-0 with a 2.08 ERA in two starts against the Braves this season, after going 1-4 with an 8.54 ERA in eight games against them prior to this season.
Jair’s slide: The effects of his longest-ever season may be wearing on young Jair. But I say it’s just as likely that lack of run support plus opponent Tim Lincecum have been primary factors in his recent slide.
Kid’s kept a great attitude, but you could hear the frustration after he was a hard-luck loser a couple of times recently. He’s 1-4 with a 4.35 ERA in his past five starts, and he had quality starts in three of those four losses.
The Braves scored two runs while he was pitching seven innings of three-run ball in a loss to the Cardinals on July 30, scored one run while he was pitching six solid innings of a loss against the Giants on Aug. 4, and scored one run while he was pitching seven innings of two-run ball in another loss against the Giants on Aug. 15.
He was a serious Rookie of the Year candidate until a few weeks ago, but I don’t know that his stagnant wins total will be enough to keep him close in the balloting against Cubs rookie catcher Geovany Soto.
Jurrjens is 1-4 with a 4.35 ERA in his past five starts, after going 4-2 with a 1.84 ERA in his previous seven.
He’s also lost four consecutive home starts, after going 7-0 in the first 13 home starts of his career with Detroit and the Braves (his teams were 13-0 in those games).
In his past four home starts, the Braves have scored 0, 1, 2 and 1 runs while Jurrjens has been in, an average of 1.32 runs per nine innings he’s pitched in that span.
In the first 13 home starts of his career, his teams scored over 6.3 runs per nine innings that he pitched. Don’t ever let anyone tell you run support isn’t absolutely crucial in evaluating pitchers’ won-lost records on any sort of short-term basis.
Over a couple of seasons it’ll even out, but sometimes within one season or over another long stretch, run support can entirely skew a pitcher’s record in one direction or another.
OK, stat of the day: The Braves have eight home runs in August, which is only one more than Mark Teixeira has this month for the Angels.
Yes, the Braves have a majors-low eight homers in 773 at-bats in August, one every 96.6 at-bats. Meanwhile, Teixeira has hit .380 (30-for-79) with seven homers in 22 games this month for his new team.
For what it’s worth, he’s not been able to help the Angels win much lately. They’ve lost eight of their past 12 games and are 13-11 since Teixeira joined the team.
On a somewhat related note, guess we can stop with the Manny Effect chatter for a while. Manny Ramirez is 5-for-24 with no extra-base hits or RBI in his past seven games, and the Dodgers are 1-6 in that stretch.
In his first 16 games with Los Dodgers, Manny was 25-for-59 (.424) with swix homers and 21 RBI, and Dodgers were 10-6.
Then there’s Albert…. The biggest game-changing force in the game right now, for my money, is Albert Pujols. He’s been utterly Bonds-ian lately, and I really think it’s going to be next to impossible for Chipper to hold him off for the batting title.
As Bobby Cox conceded on Sunday, Chipper just isn’t going to get as many pitches to hit the rest of the way, without Teixeira hitting behind him.
Pujols has hit .379 in 45 games since the Fourth of July, including .404 (42-for-104) in his past 27 games with 12 doubles, 10 homers, 31 RBI, 21 walks, only 10 strikeouts, a .504 OBP and an .808 slugging percentage (1.312 OPS).
He’s a beast, plain and simple. And he’s got Ryan Ludwick hitting in front or behind him (Tony La Russa mixes it up).
Meanwhile, Chipper has hit .272 in his past 45 games (since June 11) with four homers, 22 RBI, a .395 OBP and .404 slugging percentage. He has one homer in his past 27 games.
In 59 games through June 10, he hit .420 with 15 homers, 41 RBI, a .506 OBP and .680 slugging percentage. Just over two weeks ago, Chipper had a 22-point lead in the batting race. Now it’s virtually tied (he’s a few thousandths of a point ahead).
By the way, Chipper’s next game will be his 2,000th, all with the Braves. He’s third on the franchise list behind Hank (3,076) and Eddie Mathews (2,223).
”HELLO IN THERE” by John Prine
We had an apartment in the city,
Me and Loretta liked living there.
Well, it’d been years since the kids had grown,
A life of their own left us alone.
John and Linda live in Omaha,
And Joe is somewhere on the road.
We lost Davy in the Korean war,
And I still don’t know what for, don’t matter anymore.
Ya’ know that old trees just grow stronger,
And old rivers grow wilder ev’ry day.
Old people just grow lonesome
Waiting for someone to say, “Hello in there, hello.”
Me and Loretta, we don’t talk much more,
She sits and stares through the back door screen.
And all the news just repeats itself
Like some forgotten dream that we’ve both seen.
Someday I’ll go and call up Rudy,
We worked together at the factory.
But what could I say if he asks “What’s new?”
“Nothing, what’s with you? Nothing much to do.”
Ya’ know that old trees just grow stronger,
And old rivers grow wilder ev’ry day.
Old people just grow lonesome
Waiting for someone to say, “Hello in there, hello.”
So if you’re walking down the street sometime
And spot some hollow ancient eyes,
Please don’t just pass ‘em by and stare
As if you didn’t care.
Say, “Hello in there, hello.”
Services »
Comments
By Supes
August 26, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
I seriously doubt there will be a game played tonight. Probably a good thing for the Braves…means they won’t lose!
Only one more week until September call ups…thankfully!
Looking forward to seeing Jordan S. Josh A., Lillbridge and anyone else they call up. Maybe Hanson or Medlin for start or two?
By TI
August 26, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Go Braves!
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog, Chief! They better not hafta play a doubleheader!
against Cubs rookie catcher Geovany Soto.
Ugh…I’m against Cubs Rookie catcher Geovany Soto (aka John Grove), too!
Yelgth…
Er…uh…forth?
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Supes:
Mississippi will likely have some post-season games to play which would likely delay any September call ups from AA. Just an FYI.
By Thrillhouse44
August 26, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
I’m glad to hear that JJJ has kept a good attitude throughout this season. That’s got to be tough to do. It’d be nice to win this series, well any series.
By VaBravesfan
August 26, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
DOB, I need a favor. Before Kotsay is traded tell him thanks for giving my daughter a baseball during the Aug. 17 game against the Giants. We drove 450 miles to get there and it was her first MLB game ever. It made her day.
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
Post from last BLOG
Hey Dave Got a question for you. Do you think the injuries to our pitchers this year were flukes or was it merely a coincidence that so many of them got injured? Are they using a different routine than before, maybe not pitching in between starts like they use to when Mazzone was the pitching coach or are they doing things exactly the same?
The reason I ask is because, if I were an injury prone pitcher such as Ben Sheets(not saying we are getting him or anything), would I be inclined to sign with Atlanta after the rash of injuries to their pitching because maybe their workout program isn’t what it use to be, or do I think it was just a fluke and maybe give it a shot.
How heavily do you think the amount of injuries to Braves pitchers will weigh on the minds of free agent pitchers possibly thinking about coming to Atlanta, or do you think it wont have any affect at all.
Just curious as to what you think.
By snowball's chance
August 26, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
DOB, I just watched an old documentary about the Austin music scene circa 1975 called Heartworn Highways. If you haven’t seen it , you might look it up. Footage of Townes Van Zandt, Guy Clark , Steve Earle and others.
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave You said….. * Meanwhile, Teixeira has hit .380 (30-for-79) with seven homers in 22 games this month for his new team.
For what it’s worth, he’s not been able to help the Angels win much lately. They’ve lost eight of their past 12 games and are 13-11 since Teixeira joined the team.*
All the more evident that he is just a guy that puts up good stats, but doesnt have much affect on whether a team wins or loses. He was the same with Texax, us and now the Angels.
Now Pujols, he is a guy that puts up stats and carries a team. Tex, he doesnt do that.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
On the last blog Cooper said, “The one run game stats and Bobby don’t look great in terms of his legacy but when every pitcher and substitution you make blows it is hard to win close games.”
From 1991 to the present the Braves have the 10th-best record in baseball in one-run games.
The 1982-1985 Blue Jays had the 6th-best one-run record in baseball during that span.
The 1978-1981 Braves had the 6th-best one-run record in baseball during that span.
How do close games hurt Bobby Cox’s legacy?
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
VaBravesfan—
Aw…That’s cute!
By BravesFanInRockies
August 26, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Mornin’ folks —
Fascinating news from DOB in the last blog about Andruw playing 1B in rehab.
HMMM.
This is rich. Since the Dodgers are stuck with Pierre’s contract and have Andruw for one more year, Mr. Opportunity may be knocking, and he’s not selling Hondas.
Loney has played OF in the past, so it’s indeed possible that Ethier or Loney or Kemp could be had in the offseason. And if the Dodgers re-sign Manny then at least one of those guys has to go.
I’m not saying ditch Kotchman — though I’d have much rather had Loney than Kotchman before the deal was made.
But if Andruw’s future is at 1B, the Dodgers could still have a surplus corner OF.
Mr. Wren, I hope you’ll look into it.
By Dosomething
August 26, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
The Braves have to play today. If they don’t then McCann will have 2 days in a row off & they wouldn’t want to do that!!LOL
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Dosomething—
That’s not so bad…But if they play a doubleheader, Bobby might put him in for both games, and we don’t want that!
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, Smoltz got hurt under Mazzone. Steve Avery got hurt. Remember when Mark Wohlers got hurt, then his replacement: Kerry Ligtenberg?
I think a lot of it is we think back to Maddux and Glavine always being healthy. But look at Maddux before he got to Mazzone and the Braves. He made 34 or more starts every season for the Cubs from 1988-1992.
Look at the guys who got hurt this season: Lots of older guys and guys who had injury histories before they came to the Braves.
I don’t think there is anything conclusive that would show that something Mazzone and the Braves were doing when he was here allowed them to prevent injuries better than they are now.
By Train Wreck Bystander
August 26, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
I foresee a triple-header on Thursday.
On the subject of that John Prine song, I think I heard him do that live a few years ago. But I have always preferred the 10,000 Maniacs cover.
By Couch Tater
August 26, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
In the last 5 years, Albert has averaged .346 in September. Chipper .322.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, actually the Angels are losing because Teixeira and Guerrero are the only Angel everyday players doing anything.
So since the Braves are losing, should we conclude that Chipper is “just a guy that puts up good stats, but doesn’t have much affect on whether a team wins or loses”?
Guess what? Certain stats tell us if a player is contributing. Certain stats don’t just magically look impressive when a player isn’t doing anything.
By Ted
August 26, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
I saw something yesterday on ESPN.COM about the Braves trading Kelly Johnson???? Anyone else hear anything?
Not to pile on, but has anyone else noticed that Willie Harris has 12 home runs this year. I know that the stadiums are different, but who would have guessed that little Willie Harris would have more home runs that ANY outfielder wearing a Brave’s uniform?
By DAP
August 26, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
i brought this up on the last blog and was hoping for an opine. ill post it one more time then drop it if no one wants to comment…the dodgers need a SS and a 2B for next year. they also have extra outfielders. do you think we could trade a double play combo (two of any of our middle infielders) for matt kemp? the guy is a good player. he is probably thier best one, they might not want to part with him. but they might…
what do yall think? two middle infielders for matt kemp?
By nate
August 26, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
I think record in one run games is a pretty good indicator of a manager’s “in game” skills. But theres more to managing than pitching changes and substitutions.
The Braves may have the 10th best record in 1-run games since 1991, but where is their overall record since 1991? I haven ‘t crunched the numbers but I would bet that its much higher than 10th. If their winning percentage in 1-run games is lower than the overall winning percentage, then the Braves have under-performed in 1-run games. I’m guessing that to be true.
Plus, Bobby’s record from a decade ago doesn’t really indicate current ability. The past few seasons are a much better indicator of current ability.
The game is constantly changing. As a manager you have to adapt. Plus you’ve got to change your approach based on the player you have on the team. Bobby seems like an old dinosaur willing or unable to adapt to his players and the current game.
Anyone who has watched Braves baseball this season has got to admit that many of the in-game moves have seemed ill-timed or counter productive.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
ted just rumors about kelly getting traded. it hasnt happend yet.
i got a chance to go to the new stadium in washing ton this summer to see the angels and nationals. willie harris put on a show, with a homer, a triple, and a run scored on an errant throw to third by john lackey. it was an exciting game thanx to wille. the stadiums are differnt, but nationals park or whatever its called isnt exactly easy to hit homers in either. it might not be as big as turner, but it has high walls. the bomb wille hit when i was there was almost dead center.
good for willie. i like willie alot, but i dont wish he was back or anything.
By Lew
August 26, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
All this talk about McDowell being responsible for the injuries to the staff this year is sheer absurdity. Let’s look at the list
Smoltz-41 Years old with a history of arm problems pre-dating McDowell’s tenure. Finally fell apart. We should have seen it coming and Roger couldn’t have done anything to stop his arm from failing.
Glavine-42 years old and never on the DL before this season, but it now seems obvious his elbow was going while still in NY.
Gonzalez-Elbow issues before he ever got to Atlanta. He has the most unnatural throwing motion of any pitcher I’ve ever seen. Again, not McDowell’s fault.
Soriano-Elbow issues before he ever got to Atlanta.
Buddy Carlyle-Run over by a batter on the way to make a play at first base.
Acosta-Pulled a hamstring running to first.
Hudson-Never inured under McDowell’s tenure before now. His only problem to this point has been oblique strains, which he attributed to his workout regimen and took the time to remedy the cause.
Hampton-Could ANYONE have made a difference? His problems started, I believe, before Roger was even with the Braves.
Moylan-MAYBE you could attribute his problems to Roger. MAYBE.
Sorry all of you McDowell haters-just can’t see where he’s to blame (except for keeping the Braves pitchers competitive for half the season).
By 3trees
August 26, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Great song from simply an amazing record (JP’s first). Pretty sure it was done in Memphis. Its got a little bit of everything - lots of humor, despair, hope, joy - and a lot of great playing from the backing musicians.
These Braves have played soggy, even through the dry months. Interesting to see what Wren and Co. do this winter.
Go Braves!
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Ted, that is pretty crazy about Willie Harris and the Braves’ outfield. Of course Harris is having a career year so no one would have expected that. And no one would expect Francoeur would barely be into double digits at this point in the season.
Another funny number: Teixeira is one behind McCann for the team lead in homers…he hasn’t played a game for the Braves in almost a month.
The Braves are 3rd in the league in on-base. Imagine how many more games they would have won with just league average power.
By Jeff
August 26, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
At the rate in which he has been hitting for the past two months, Chipper’s BA should wind up around .320, about 100 points below his gaudy average of .420 in June. This, as well as his anemic power hitting will certainly tarnish what had seemed to be headed for a super-star’s career year. Apparently Chipper is just too old at this point to be able to carry the team by himself and can only be really productive by being surrounded by great hitters, which the Braves will not obtain. Therefore it makes a great deal of sense to consider trading Chipper to a team that could add his diminishing skills to an already impressive lineup while the Braves could get something decent in return. I know that this will not happen because the Braves will never depart with Chipper even as his skills continue to erode with advancing age.
By Jon F.
August 26, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Dave, Mark Bowman on MLB.COM suggests that there will be some changes on the coaching staff in the offseason. What have you heard about this?
By Graham
August 26, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I agree. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that the Braves have changed anything regarding their prevention of injuries. Please correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am), but didn’t the Braves change their strength and conditioning coach earlier this season, and would that have something to do with it? Suddenly Glavine goes down (yeah he’s old), Hudson, Moylan, guys who never get hurt. With all the rash of injuries, it does make you ponder what has happened and how.
Regarding Mark Wohlers, I thought problem was mental. Wasn’t he seeing a psychologist during his last year in Atlanta? What was his injury because I don’t remember.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Lew, if there is one thing this blog shows us it is the desire for people to have a scapegoat for literally everything. It’s really pretty amazing, this belief that inexplicable things happen. I suppose it’s human nature to desire for the world to always be orderly and reasonable and assume that it always is.
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Ok Shaun In the 24 games he has played for the Angels he has driven in 20 runs. He has driven in 10 runs in the 13 wins and 10 in the 11 losses, meaning, he doesnt have much affect on whether the team wins or loses. Like I said.
By Goodoleboy58
August 26, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
DOB-
I’ve seen people mention that September callups effect players future major league eligibility in regards to Arbitration, etc. Is this true? Are there any negative effects contract wise to calling up a Schafer or Hanson Sept. 1?
By enak628
August 26, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave,
Any rumblings about Kotsay’s status for the rest of this season? According to Ken Rosenthal, the Red Sox and Phils might be interested.
By THIS JUST IN
August 26, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
According to MLB.com’s Jim Molony, the Atlanta Braves have been so impressed with Martin Prado this season that they will likely trade second baseman Kelly Johnson in the winter in order to give Prado a shot at the everyday job.
Yep, this organization is headed in the right direction….. Trading away useful everyday players and replacing them for fringe-average regulars is a sure fire way to become the Pittsburgh Pirates. I bet ya Wren gets a couple of B prospects and thinks that is enough value for a 2nd baseman of Johnson’s calibur.
By BrandonC
August 26, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’v been anxiously awaiting September callups, are you hearing any names the Braves are thinking of bringing up? I’m most curious about seeing Schafer and Anderson called up, but with the bullpen being overworked are we more likely to see a slew of relief pitchers? Not that they won’t mix it up, but I’m just curious.
By BT
August 26, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
David, you call 27-30 bad. Now the Braves can show you bad, real bad!
By cricket
August 26, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Great song, this one really hit home.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, so driving in runs is the only way a player contributes? And if a player puts up great numbers but his team doesn’t win, that means he is just a guy who puts up good stats and doesn’t help the team win?
It’s Teixeira’s fault that only one other guy has been hitting since he’s been there?
What you implied in your post is Teixeira is a guy who puts up great stats but he’s not a winning player. What I’m saying is it takes more than one player performing well in order for the team to win.
Chipper is having a better season this year than he did in 2004 and probably 2005 but the Braves aren’t winning as much. Does that mean we should conclude that this season Chipper is just a guy who puts up great stats but is not a winner? That’s an absurd distinction.
By Spud Webb
August 26, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Lew you’re correct. McDowell has nothing to do with the injuries to the pitching staff. Facts are that when you depend on 2 guys over 40, ANYTHING can happen, just the way it is. Nice post Lew, with valid points on each pitcher. The problem is (Shaun) hit on this to a point: Everyone here in Atlanta is still in love with Mazzone, therefore anyway to bash his replacement will happen. Mazzone was great while he was here. I would tend to think I would be great with 3 future hall of famers logging over 200 innings a season along with a slew of other talented pitchers. Avery, Mercker, Stanton, Wohlers. I tend to give more credit to Bobby, drafting and trading (before being the manager) stud pitchers than I lean towards Leo being the difference. All my opinion. It is interesting to see that Leo isn’t employed this season? Why? This Just In what makes you want to keep Kelly Johnson? He’s had his chance the past few seasons but honestly is about as mediocore as they come. Nothing spectacular. Prado appears (appears, key word) to have the tools to be well above average. Not sure why Prado doesn’t excite you? Prado at the top of the order at least gives me something to look forward to. He plays with heart (we don’t see too many Braves play with heart) and bust his hump. I see no problem with the guy. Again, just my opinion.
By ernesto
August 26, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
With the way los Bravos are playing these days, maybe a better Prine would have been..
“Blow up your tv, throw away your paper, go to the country, build you a home…”
Though, i”ve heard him say the DOB pick his his fave song he ever wrote.
I cadged this from MLB traderumors.com, elias rankings of many players….how is AJ ranked anywhere but last among outfielders?????
[http://tigers-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/08/projected-elias-rankings.html]
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
DAP:
I’ll bite on the trade idea you are tossing out.
My bet is that the Dodgers would want middle infielders that are established and proven at the MLB level. That excludes Lillibridge and Prado. Kelly will be coming off of a down year and has always struggled with consistency (not to mention his defensive liabilities), so I doubt he would fit the bill for the Dodgers.
Yunel would make perfect sense to the Dodgers and they’d probably jump at that. But it makes no sense for the Braves. There is a shortage of every day SS’s in MLB right now, and it just doesn’t make sense to trade Yunel under virtually any circumstance.
Its just my take, but I don’t see a deal there.
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Hey THIS JUST IN What makes you say that Prado is a fringe player? Or more importantly, what makes you think Kelly is a useful everyday player?
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Ernest:
As for why Andruw is not last, the formula uses two seasons of stats — not just one.
By Jamie in Richmond
August 26, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
This just in
You’re a fringer poster, if you really think Prado’s a fringer player. I mean, do you even watch the games???
By beekay
August 26, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
DOB From previous blog
Question: If we sign more than one type A or B free agent do we lose multiple picks? If we sign two A free agents and don’t lose any of our own, how are we penalized if we only have one first round pick? With the money we have to spend I’m hoping we go after 3 high end free agents. The only FA I see us losing worth value is Ohman…not sure how Kotsay would be classified but doubtful he is a B
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Shaun, basically I am saying that Tex is not a difference maker, like an Albert Pujols, and I am glad they traded him away.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
spud webb He’s had his chance the past few seasons but honestly is about as mediocore as they come.
thats incorrect. he is an above average 2nd baseman. that is a fact.
lawton ‘preciate it. true, the dodgers could trade for some other 2B or SS, but, there is no 2b or SS to be had on the free agent market better than kelly, prado, infante, or even lillibridge.
furcal and hudson are the only ones, and they are damamged goods, so the dodgers might not want to risk goign with those guys and listen to offers. you are probably right though.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Prado and Kelly Johnson could be good everyday players in the majors.
Prado in the majors: .311/.364/.441
Prado in the minors: .300/.352/.393
…
Johnson in the majors: .264/.351/.425
Johnson in the minors: .281/.364/.464
By ernesto
August 26, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Lawton…oh the last two seasons ay? Hmmm. It ain’t exactly like he tore it up during his last season wearing the Tomahawk, either.
Anyone below AJ on that list has got to seriously be considering what Plan B is, in case this baseball thing just doesn’t work out.
As for KJ I think we should hold onto him another year, but why not platoon him with Prado? He could also be a 5th outfield option.
His trade value can’t be that high right now.
I read where the Bravos will take a mid-level prospect for Kotsay…hope the bidding goes a little higher than that because it becomes a sellers market. Still I dodn’t think they’ll bring him back next year (isn’t he slated to make 9 mil?) so I guess soemthing is better than nothing.
Not that this needs pointing out, but being irrelevant in August blows
By Supes
August 26, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
If the AA team is in the playoffs and we don’t get to see some of their players called up, it would be disappointing, but I hope they play well and go as far as they can in their playoff format.
To me, there is little reason to watch anymore, and if some of the young guys are playing, I’ll be at least curious to see how they perform up here against top notch pitching.
As far as Kelly Johnson being traded, or used in a trade, if it betters the team I’m all for it.
Martin Prado is serviceable. He doesn’t have the HR power that Kelly Johnson has, but he’s a solid hitter, hustles and is eager to prove to everyone he can be an every day player.
I’m baffled by “trade proposals on this blog where the Braves give up crap and get good players in return”. To me, a deal should work both ways. You can’t get a good player without giving up someone of value, or some value at least to the team in question.
So if Kelly, Jeff or even Yunel is in a trade involving a starting pitcher for 2009 that will make the team better, I’m all for it.
Nobody other than Chipper Jones & Brian McCann are untradable on this Braves team.
It all depends on who the Braves get back in return.
Starting pitching is the key, always was, always will be. Pitching and defense. Gotta return to the old ways of fundamental baseball.
Oh, and next year, Eddie Perez as 3rd base coach for the Braves. Year after that when Bobby finally leaves, promote Eddie to manager. He’ll get things straight!
By Efrim
August 26, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Original Jon
basically I am saying that Tex is not a difference maker, like an Albert Pujols, and I am glad they traded him away.
I wish this team could get some more “non-difference makers”. And to your post to this just in, why in the world would you think Kelly Johnson isn’t a useful everyday major leaguer? I’m sure you weren’t saying that a year ago. Has that much changed for a 26 year old? Did he peak at 25, really? Chances are he probably has more seasons like 2007 ahead of him.
By Pulpwood Smith
August 26, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Great call on “Hello in There”. Best song ever about aging, and absolutely spellbinding live. Love the Prine.
By stynes
August 26, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Graham… wasn’t that the infamous “inability to pitch” line on going to the DL?
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Beekay
First of all, the first 15 picks are protected. The Braves will not lose their first round pick because they will certainly have a Top 15 pick.
If the Braves sign a Type A free agent, the other team would get the Braves’ second round pick and a supplemental pick.
If the Braves signed 3 Type A free agents, the Braves would lose 3 draft picks. They would lose their 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. The free agent signed with the highest score (Elias formula for determining Type A, B, etc) would earn the 2nd rounder for the team he is departing. The next highest score would net the 3rd rounder and so on.
By lewie
August 26, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
actually wouldn’t mind seeing eddie get a shot at manager in the future
By lewie
August 26, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
i forgot about the draft…it’ll be the first time in yrs i’ve paid this much attention to it
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, certainly Teixeira is no Albert Pujols. But I guess whether or not he’s a difference maker depends on what kind of difference you expect a player to make. Teixeira is right behind Pujols, Berkman and Youkilis in OPS. He’s right behind Pujols and Berkman in Runs Created. So Teixeira has clearly been one of the three or four best firstbasemen in the majors this season. Don’t know if that qualifies as a “difference maker” to you or not.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave Got a question for you. Do you think the injuries to our pitchers this year were flukes or was it merely a coincidence that so many of them got injured? Are they using a different routine than before, maybe not pitching in between starts like they use to when Mazzone was the pitching coach or are they doing things exactly the same?Original Jon
Smoltz and Glavine got hurt because they’re old (by baseball standards, 42 is ancient) and because Smoltz had a shoulder that’s had more wear and tear on it than Andrews had seen on a labrum before.
Moylan and Soriano are relievers, so pitching between starts is moot. Plus, Soriano got hurt in spring triaining shortly after he started throwing, and Moylan was hurt in the second week of the season, after ranking among MLB relief leaders in appearances and innings last season.
I don’t think the number of pitching injuries this season would be a factor whatsoever in any free agent deciding to come here or not. Money will, though.
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Further,
The Giants actually signed 3 Type A free agents before the 2007 season.
Their 2nd round pick went the Giants (for Barry Zito signing)
Their 3rd round pick went to Reds (for Rich Aurilia signing)
Their 4th round pick went to the Padres (for Dave Roberts signing)
It didn’t hurt them too badly, because they rec’d compensation picks for losing Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt and Mike Stanton. The ended up with 3 first round picks (10, 22 and 29) and 3 1st round supplemental picks (32, 43, 51).
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Goodoleboy, no “negative effect” to calling up Schafer, since he’s already on the 40-man and has already used an option this year being sent down the first time.
To bring up Hanson, you’d have to add him to 40-man and start his options clock. He doesn’t have to be protected this winter, so I’m not sure if they’d be willing to add him to 40-man roster just to call him up in Sept.
Because they could bring him to spring training as a non-roster invitee, and take a look at him then, give him chance to make team, at no risk since he’s not on the 40-man. Then could send him down without using an option next year.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Jon F., after the season the Braves have had, and third consecutive missed playoffs, I don’t think there are any certainties on the coaching staff. If McDowell wants to be back, he’ll be back, but other than him, I wouldn’t feel certain about any of them.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Let’s see if you had players who were “not difference makers” in the same way that Teixeira is “not a difference maker,” here’s what your team might look like:
C Russell Martin
1B Teixeira
2B Mark DeRosa
3B Aramis Ramirez
SS Jhonny Peralta
LF Carlos Lee
CF Rick Ankiel
RF Jermaine Dye
DH Jason Kubel
These are the players who rank 4th at their positions in OPS. Is that a team that could “make a difference”? Guess not.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
DOB
What are you smoking in your Cohiba dude? The Braves have NO chance against the Marlins. They may be slumping but the Braves are free-falling.
All together now:
Now I’m free
Free fallin.
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I’ve never seen Jordan Schafer listed on the 40-man roster. Is he on the 40-man roster?
By Ronald Millsaps
August 26, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Shaun—Teixeira has good numbers, but flat statistics can be highly misleading. His season with Atlanta this year was the antithesis of what Chipper Jones did for Atlanta, say, in 1999, when he put up great numbers and consistently did so at crucial moments. Teixeira had one great week, where he hit six homers, but he really is only productive if the team is clicking around him, and he was pretty close to awful in April and May. (I like what Joe Simpson said about him; he needs to work out in the offseason so he’s ready to go by April, not later in the season.)
Teixeira also hit into a lot of double plays, but that’s not entirely his fault since seldom has the team attempted stolen bases or played hit-and-run.
As for beating the Marlins, my main concern with this team is seeing players show character down the stretch, whether their doing so turns into wins or not. I also want to see Brian McCann get some time off (which he desperately needs). I’d tell Morton and Reyes to pitch more aggressively, and their pitching in these types of games is nice because doing so has the relaxation of spring training while testing against professional talent. I’d give Jeff Francoeur some time off to help his ankle heal. He needs some time off as well. It’d be nice if he could get his swing back by season’s end.
If the Braves have $67 million available this offseason, I’d pursue a proven pitcher, Adam Dunn, Rafael Furcal, and Juan Cruz. Ironically, two of the three names here used to play for Atlanta. I’d have a batting order of Furcal-Blanco-Chipper-Dunn-McCann-Francoeur-Escobar-Johnson (center field). At least this lineup nearly would guarantee the playoffs.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Snowball’s Chance: That’s a cool movie, and the soundtrack if phenomenal. I don’t know how easy it is to find, but I’ve got the CD, only seen it once in a store (when I bought it). I’m sure you could get it online, though.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
DOB, how much input do you think Bobby Cox has on the coaching staff? I’d imagine a lot but I don’t know (which is why I ask). And I would think Cox has a job as long as he wants it so he could have a lot of input on which coaches stay and go. (I’m sure a lot of people will have something to say—“Oh, we’re doomed!”)
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
I just can’t understand why people are so willing to give up on Kelly after one down season, when that down season is league average. It’s not like he’s pulling a Frenchy and hitting .230 with an OBP below .300. Kelly had a fantastic season last year that was statistically superior Dan Uggla, Orlando Hudson, and Brandon Phillips. Last year, he was equal to Ian Kinsler and pretty close to Placido Polanco. In fact, Polanco’s career EqA is exactly the same as Kelly’s. Kelly Johnson’s 2007 EqA was 25 points better than Brian McCann’s (sorry McFann). These are the types of players you want on your team. You do not want to trade these types of players unless it is absolutely necessary. Is it absolutely necessary to trade Kelly next year? No. Will the pieces Kelly brings back help us into the playoffs? In all likelihood, no. We can adequately fill our needs via free agency instead of by trading a solid position player who is young, affordable, good, and likely to improve. Second base is the least of our worries next year, and why would we trade Kelly, whose trade value is as low as it could ever be, to fill a need at one position (such as left field or starting pitcher) and possibly ope another hole at second base? Especially when we can fill these needs through free agency? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
I am in no way knocking Martin Prado, who has had one heck of a year. I just think that Kelly is more likely to improve back to 2007 form (or better) than Martin is to stay at his 2008 level. Martin is a fantastic bench player, but I fear he may be overexposed starting every day.
Besides, Kelly won’t be making a lot of money next year, and his trade value is at an all-time low right now? Why trade him now? Especially since many of you consider 2009 to be a lost cause. So why not let Kelly play in ‘09, and at least see if he is able to revert to 2007 (or better) form. If he isn’t, then we can easily insert Martin and trade Kelly then. His value won’t take a great hit, unless he pulls a Frenchy next year, which I can almost guarantee he won’t.
To me, Martin is at worst a “serviceable” player, with a ceiling of moderately above average, whereas Kelly is at worst an average player, with a much higher ceiling than Martin.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
I just can’t understand why people are so willing to give up on Kelly after one down season, when that down season is league average. It’s not like he’s pulling a Frenchy and hitting .230 with an OBP below .300. Kelly had a fantastic season last year that was statistically superior Dan Uggla, Orlando Hudson, and Brandon Phillips. Last year, he was equal to Ian Kinsler and pretty close to Placido Polanco. In fact, Polanco’s career EqA is exactly the same as Kelly’s. Kelly Johnson’s 2007 EqA was 25 points better than Brian McCann’s (sorry McFann). These are the types of players you want on your team. You do not want to trade these types of players unless it is absolutely necessary. Is it absolutely necessary to trade Kelly next year? No. Will the pieces Kelly brings back help us into the playoffs? In all likelihood, no. We can adequately fill our needs via free agency instead of by trading a solid position player who is young, affordable, good, and likely to improve. Second base is the least of our worries next year, and why would we trade Kelly, whose trade value is as low as it could ever be, to fill a need at one position (such as left field or starting pitcher) and possibly ope another hole at second base? Especially when we can fill these needs through free agency? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
I am in no way knocking Martin Prado, who has had one heck of a year. I just think that Kelly is more likely to improve back to 2007 form (or better) than Martin is to stay at his 2008 level. Martin is a fantastic bench player, but I fear he may be overexposed starting every day.
Besides, Kelly won’t be making a lot of money next year, and his trade value is at an all-time low right now? Why trade him now? Especially since many of you consider 2009 to be a lost cause. So why not let Kelly play in ‘09, and at least see if he is able to revert to 2007 (or better) form. If he isn’t, then we can easily insert Martin and trade Kelly then. His value won’t take a great hit, unless he pulls a Frenchy next year, which I can almost guarantee he won’t.
To me, Martin is at worst a “serviceable” player, with a ceiling of moderately above average, whereas Kelly is at worst an average player, with a much higher ceiling than Martin.
By beekay
August 26, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Lawton Thanks for the info!!
By ernesto
August 26, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun you always use to stats to negate what the everyday fan/watcher sees. (Remember last year’s ongoing argument where you kept saying there was nothign wrong with AJ’s offense??) Stats don’t tell you how many times Tex came up in crucial situations this year and didn’t deliver. Stats don’t tell you about the clutch hits missed, the slow start, the domino effect that may have had on other players.
If you watched the Braves everyday you saw, Tex was NOT a difference maker this year with the Braves.
He consistently puts up nice numbers, he’s going to be a very rich man, but he doesnt’ look like the kind of player who can put a team on his back.
At least not from what I’ve SEEN from him to this point in his career.
By NickC
August 26, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Prado won’t continue to hit like this with a full time job. He also plays worse defence than Kelly.
I wouldn’t want to trade Kelly, but if it got good pieces back then that’s fine. We’d have to go get another 2B too then.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Besides, Kelly won’t be making a lot of money next year, and his trade value is at an all-time low right nowSteve from OH
Got a good point on the trade value. Just looking at his numbers this morning. Couldn’t believe they had gotten this bad for this long:
He’s hit .229 (23-for-157) in his past 47 games with more errors (three) than homers (two). Only nine extra-base hits, 16 RBI and a .288 OBP and .312 slugging percentage in that span, which is more than a quarter of the season.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
ronald milsaps i dont think we have $67mil coming off…how did you come up with that number? anyways, id shy away from dunn and we have no use for furcal…but juan cruz would be a good guy to have. he is a good, versitile reliever. wren bucked the braves tend by signing soriano… maybe he has a different philosophy and will spend on relievers.
remember, when the mets won the division in 2006, they did it with ok starters, a great offense and a great bullpen.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Apologies for the double post.
By hydee
August 26, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
He also plays worse defence than Kelly.
I’ve only been watching the Braves for about a month, and I’ve probably been spoiled watching Pedroia the last couple of years, but seriously I have seen alot balls get by Kelly that should be makeable plays. KJ doesn’t impress at all at 2nd, IMO.
By flange1
August 26, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Interesting numbers on KJ. Am I correct that he did about the same last year at this time? Seems like he hits a wall and then slumps to the end of the year.
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
DAP:
The Braves traded for Soriano and it was Schuerholz that traded for him.
By Brian
August 26, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves get some players with fire. The younger guys seem to follow Chippers example that’s quiet,relaxed treat it more like a business. Not saying that’s a bad thing, I mean it worked in the past,I think, because we had guys like Justice,Gant,Klesko and Gallaraga. Loved it when he charged the mound and beat that pitchers a*. I have never seen a player look more like a whipped dog more than KJ. We need some firery little b*******!! Next time we play the Phillies and Utley comes to the plate, I’d bean him right in the ribs. And if he charged the mound I’d grab ahold of that greasey hair and it’d be lights out! Same goes for the Hawaien midget. He’s bald though. Still find a way to get him back.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
steve from OH i dont think its that people are giving up on kelly, i think its more that kelly is very tradable, and we need alot of other things. middle infield is a position of depth, and so some of those guys are expendable. also, i disagree that kelly trade value is low. he is a very good player. you said so yourself. i think everyone realizes this, including teams that might want to trade for him and fans that might want to trade him.
also, dont you think prado has a good chance of being an average 2nd baseman?
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Wow. Thems is some ugly numbers. I dunno, though, the career numbers (both majors and minors) and the 2007 numbers still look nice. It seems rather hasty and ill-advised to simply get rid of a nice young player because of a terrible quarter-season (which is what many here are so bitter about). I just think his future is too promising to just give away for some mediocre pitching or outfield prospects or a couple of washed-up vets. (Not directed at DOB; just at the blog in general)
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
I’m not sure that everyone has given up on Kelly (I’m sure some have) but it’s a matter of what to we have that would be of value to another team in a trade. Unfortunately for the Braves, that list is very small.
Kelly happens to be one piece that may have some value to other teams (although DOB’s last post about his numbers recently may scare some people off). 2nd base is also a position where the Braves have some strength with back-up players (Prado, Infante, Lillibridge, Hernandez, etc). These guys could fill in admirably for Kelly while we use him to get an OF bat or a pitcher - which we need way more desperately than we need KJ at 2nd base.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
lawton the braves then signed soriano to a 2 year, $8mil contract before this season started. wren was the GM at the time.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
ernesto, Teixeira performed pretty well in key situations—with runners on, with runners in scoring position, close and late. If he wasn’t a difference maker, I don’t know who is.
He’s no Albert Pujols or Lance Berkman or Chipper or A-Rod, if that’s your standard for a “difference maker.”
By Josh
August 26, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
I like KJ a lot, and I’m pretty sure that this season is just a fluke. His minor league numbers are much closer to what he did last year. But if he could anchor a package that gets us a legitimate corner outfielder or starting pitcher then so be it. Prado won’t continue the slugging % he’s put up so far this season but the drop off from KJ to Prado won’t be insurmountable.
I would really like to see the team go after Dunn or Burrell, as well as one of Lowe/Garland/Dempster. Then make a trade with KC for DeJesus and Greinke. Would KJ/B.Jones/Medlin or Parr/Morton be enough? (not the best armchair gm here)
If Francouer is still on the team DeJesus could play center, and if Fenchy is gone or if his struggles continue then move DeJesus to RF and plug Schafer in CF
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Shaun You comparing a whole team of difference makers to one person is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure a whole team of them would make a difference, but thats from top to bottom. You are not adding one of them to a team, you are actually making a team from them. Looking at your list, I dont see one person that turned their team around from pretenders to contenders except for maybe Jermaine Dye. None of those other people made their team that much better by just being on it.
By Hit, Heap, Hit!
August 26, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
No way they’ll be Braves baseball tonight. Over here in Bama today is supposed to be the last day of rain but they also said it would be sunny by this afternoon and it’s still raining.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Teixeira was the Braves 2nd-best regular with RISP, with runners on, with the bases loaded he was better than Chipper and McCann, in close and late situations he was the best hitter on the team. Not sure what you are “seeing,” ernesto, but obviously you must have been asleep the times Teixeira came through.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Regenator, while I can’t disagree that we need an OF bat and a pitcher more than a second baseman at this point, I can disagree with the general idea that we absolutely must trade somebody. Every piece we need is on the free agent market. We also have depth in the minor league system to deal from that can help to keep our major-league caliber players within the organization, although I’m generally against dealing away minor leaguers.
While I do believe Prado can become an average or decent player, I just think Kelly has way too much upside to just give away to the first team that dangles an outfielder to us. I just don’t think that what Kelly brings back in a trade will help put us over the top any more than a few shrewd free agent signings can, or trades of other, less crucial, players. While Infante has done a wonderful job this year, he is a utility player, and would do considerably worse next year as a starter, IMO. Same for Prado, but I think Prado would do better than Infante, but still not as good as Kelly. Lilly, to me, is the quintessential backup/utility infielder, and Diory Hernandez? Sorry, but if he’s our 2B next year, I may have to go assassinate Frank Wren (kidding).
I just think that trading Kelly for help at other positions poses too great of a risk of opening a hole at 2B where there was not one before. Considering that we could fill our needs without opening this hole, it just seems foolish. Like I’ve said before, trading Kelly probably won’t bring us any closer to contending next season than not trading Kelly will. So why not let him play, to get a better gauge on both his and Martin’s performance. If they both perfrom admirably, then it’s more feasible to trade Kelly, because his value will be higher, he’ll be due for a higher salary, and we’ll have a larger sample size on which to judge Martin. Don’t get me wrong, I think we can contend next year, but trading Kelly won’t (to me) appreciably increase our win total unless Frank Wren pulls off an absolute heist.
By Chop Chop
August 26, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
More Kelly Johnson stats for ya:
In the last 365 days, Kelly has played 145 games (129 starts) and posted a .252/.326/.384 line. In the second half of seasons during his career, Kelly Johnson is hitting .246/.326/.389.
(I love to use David Eckstein as a comparison for players that aren’t hitting well.)
In the last 365 days, Eckstein has played 101 games (95 starts) and posted .297/.368/.393.
Think about that, folks. David Eckstein has hit for a higher average, outslugged, and out-OPS’d Kelly Johnson (yeah, yeah, smaller sample size, but not much smaller) over a calendar year’s worth of games. That’s kinda scary.
In the second half of seasons during his career, David Eckstein is hitting .291/.349/.372.
(In no way would I ever ever ever ever ever EVER want David Eckstein starting for my team, but that statline certainly puts Kelly Johnson’s numbers into some perspective. The dude is struggling. He turns 27 in February. Whether he’s in Atlanta or somewhere else, the man needs to get his act together.)
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
DAP
Looks like you and I are sharing a brain on the Kelly Johnson trade talk.
By R Brave
August 26, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
DOB. What do think of bringing up Barbaro Canizores up to play 1B ? He’s hitting great down here. What’s the rap on him, is it his glove ? Good young prospect, do you think he’ll get a shot this year with extended roster. We need a first baseman.
By Goodoleboy58
August 26, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Thanks for the response
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
DAP,
I thought you were referring to the acquisition of Soriano, not the new contract he signed. Sorry about that.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Looking at the Hour-By-Hour thingy on the Weather Channel’s website…It’s just showing “showers” in Downtown tonight.
Radar’s showin’ a few spots of rain in the Atlanta area…but I sure ain’t a weather man! Just sayin’ it doesn’t look too bad…
What’s it look like from there, DOB? Have they said anything about getting rained out? (Gosh, I hope it doesn’t get called off! Two days in a row without Braves baseball? You gotta be kiddin’ me…)
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Josh, I can see your point from your first paragraph of your 4:15, but if we sign Dunn or Burrell (which I really hope we do) do we really need to trade KJ for another OF? The only scenario I can see trading KJ in is for an ace, a bonafide top-of-the rotation guy. That’s it. If that happens, along with a Garland/Dunn signing, we’ll be awesome (or at least very good) next year. Actually, I agree with most of your post, but I don’t see why we would need DeJesus from KC (he’s kind like Blanco with a bit better power) when we could get something similar from Schafer with much less pay and not having to give up any prospects. Grienke would be great, but he’s no Peavy or Halladay.
By Chop Chop
August 26, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I didn’t mind seeing Teixeira leave because I knew the Braves wouldn’t re-sign him, but for any fans here to claim that Tex was “part of the problem,” well, that’s ridiculous.
DOB (better yet, Original Jon or N8 or several other posters in his stead) should ask Chipper and Bobby if they thought Tex was “part of the problem” this year.
I just hope there’d be an audio file posted here of their reaction to that question.
By Efrim
August 26, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
while I can’t disagree that we need an OF bat and a pitcher more than a second baseman at this point, I can disagree with the general idea that we absolutely must trade somebody. Every piece we need is on the free agent market. We also have depth in the minor league system to deal from that can help to keep our major-league caliber players within the organization, although I’m generally against dealing away minor leaguers.
Excellent points. What is wrong with Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur, Yunel Escobar and Casey Kotchman gaining some value back? Chances are it can’t get worse for them in 2009. Three of those players won’t be free agents until after 2011. Escobar is under our control through 2012.
By Goodoleboy58
August 26, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
DAP
You got to have more free agent acquisitions other then Juan Cruz…. or they’ll be a mutiny on this board
By fieldofdreams
August 26, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Pitching, pitching, pitching. If any organization should know the value of great arms, it’s Atlanta. Our early 90’s teams used great pitchers and solid - not spectacular - position players to reach the World Series. Jurrgens gives us one great young hurler but we need three more. On a team this bad, nobody’s untouchable: If they can get a great starter for Chipper, by way of a trade he’ll approve, so be it.
By monty
August 26, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
About Texierra :
I suppose for someone to be a difference maker he needs to be able to hit in clutch situations, when it’s “do or die” time, hit with runners in scoring position, hit well late, etc..etc..
Until someone shows stats that relate to those categories,it seems the argument is moot. A run by a homerun in the ist inning counts just as much as one in later innings.
Maybe what many of you are trying to argue about Texierra is, is he a game changer in the sense of doing heroic things in heroic situations. THere again I harken back to does he hit well late, and with runners in scoring position. What percentage of runners does he drive in when compared to his total number of chances?
For example Francour has had a gazillion chances to drive in runs this year, I don’t care if he winds up driving in 80 this year.THat’s a pitiful sorry lot compared to his opportunities. Some numbers don’t tell the whole story.
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, no one player could turn a team from “pretenders” to contenders. Maybe Bonds or Ruth or Mantle at their bests…even that is a maybe.
Look at Pujols, for instance. His best season before this one was 2003. The Cardinals finished 85-77, third in the Central. That’s Albert Pujols at his best…leading his team to an 85-win season and a third-place finish.
By faninva
August 26, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Some here are taking the KJ upside potential argument. With the bat, maybe. In the field? I doubt it. What have we seen all year? Dropped balls, bad range, especially to his right. Just recently, the Mets radio team ripped KJ’s range at 2nd base. They actually said his range was not up to MLB standards - and I’ve heard similar criticisms from other broadcasters as well. KJ is a good player, but he is just way too streaky with the bat and inconsistent in the field. Nick Green, Wilson Betemit and Charles Thomas had loads of upside as well, but it didn’t prevent us from making correct decisions ultimately.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I think you captured what I was trying to say in your 4:33.
By Efrim
August 26, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
It is going to take more than Kelly Johnson to land Zach Greinke. At least those are my initial thoughts. Considering Kelly’s down year, I would think Dayton Moore would ask for a top pitching prospect back as well as Johnson(if not more) for Greinke. He has pitched pretty well in a superior league and isn’t eligible for free agency until after 2010.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Good points. If Wren can address all this team’s issues via free agency then I would be all for that and let’s let some of these young guys earn some value back.
However, if he can’t get everything he wants - I think Kelly will be the first to go.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Monty, others:
Here ya go. This should do away with the silly “Tex not clutch” talk around here. Pay attention to the parts where it says Tex’s OPS is higher in EVERY SITUATION than his OPS with bases empty.
By Josh
August 26, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Definitely see your point on DeJesus. I guess, in my mind, I’m thinking of him has Francoeur insurance, but bringing him in is admittedly a little overkill. But if the team goes into 09 with an outfield of LF/Schafer/Francoeur, and Frenchy continues to struggle Dunn or Burrell/Blanco/Schafer would easily trump the team’s ‘08 OF production.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
monty THat’s a pitiful sorry lot compared to his opportunities. Some numbers don’t tell the whole story.
Same could be said for all our players, really. You have over 350 runners on base in front of you, and have just barely over 70 RBI? 289 guys on in front of you, and you’ve only driven in 63?
Those numbers are horrid, but they’re not spectacular, either.
Is anyone on this team even gonna reach 90 RBI this season? Sheesh…
Shaun That’s Albert Pujols at his best…leading his team to an 85-win season and a third-place finish.
Well, McCann at his best led his team to an 80 win, third-place finish.
; )
By Shaun
August 26, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, right on about Tex. Just because it was wise to trade him at the point they did and because he isn’t going to be worth what his next contract is likely to pay him doesn’t mean he isn’t a great player and was part of the problem, as some are implying.
By Efrim
August 26, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH, thanks.
Has anyone read the Kris Medlen article on baseballamerica.com? It seems to be an interesting read. I am not a subscriber. The caption says that Medlen moved to the Mississippi rotation to make it easier for him to get to the Atlanta bullpen? I suppose that makes some sense considering his height, but his stats are so good as a starter, I;d be shocked if they didn’t at least try him there.
By Anders
August 26, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
Lew
*Smoltz-41 Years old with a history of arm problems pre-dating McDowell’s tenure. Finally fell apart. We should have seen it coming and Roger couldn’t have done anything to stop his arm from failing.
Glavine-42 years old and never on the DL before this season, but it now seems obvious his elbow was going while still in NY*
Soriano-Elbow issues before he ever got to Atlanta.
Welcome aboard. I must say you’ve come a long way in just six months.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Tonight’s game will be Chipper’s 2000 career game!
By Brian
August 26, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
I’ve wiped out Texeira from my mind for good. I know this is a business but he said more than once he loves Atl.,Cox blah blah blah. Seems to me he loves money alot more than where his heart is. He is a difference maker so all that talk can get flushed. You’ll see. No way he was ever a “real” Brave in my mind though. Almost like he’s another brain washed Boris child.
By flange1
August 26, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Interesting discussion about KJ and the outfield.
I tend to agree that it would be a shame to trade ANY player on a down year and not get full value. But the next question is always will the down continue (like Marcus Giles)
I would like to see Prado some at second for the rest of the year to see how well he plays there. I would also like to see Lillibridge at 2B to see what he has.
To me the more these guys play, the more EVERYONE can see their talents.
Maybe Prado is the one other teams will want in the off season.
I don’t understand the Yunel trade talk though.
And guys, please stop arguing with Shaun about clutch hitters especially Tex.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Me at 4:57 Those numbers are horrid, but they’re not spectacular, either.
Haha! I meant to say aren’t horrid! 72 and 63 aren’t horrible RBI totals.
Sheesh, what a dumb-head!
: P
By ernesto
August 26, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Shaun, my point wasn’t that Tex was part of the problem, just that for what he brings to the table he won’t be worth the money he’ll command.
Which sounds like you agree.
So there you have it.
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
Efrim
I’m not sure this is a consideration or not, but Medlen was a very good shortstop in college. He hits well and runs well. He is even a switch-hitter. This season, he is 7 for 23 with a 2B, a 3B a HR and with 2 SB’s.
I’m not sure any organization would make a guy a starter to take advantage of his offensive skills. But it is interesting to consider.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Source: Red Sox, Phils eyeing Braves’ Kotsay
No! No NO! I must protest! Do NOT send Kotsay to the enemy!
BTW—Mets-Fillies series kicks off tonight. Eesh…talk about nightmares…
Who do y’all think will come out on top?
By N Nine
August 26, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
wonder if bueno will come back in september. He could serve his 5 game suspension and be ready for in time for Shane Victorino!
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
McCann’s out of lineup. Cox said he had already planned to give him the day off anyway, so he’d have back-to-back off days. Then the big ol’ hematoma on his leg only made the decision easier.
Mac told me the leg looks a lot worse than it is, that it really doesn’t hurt much. He had it wrapped today, so I couldn’t see how many shades of yellow and blue it turned since Sunday. I’m betting it’s hideous.
By rotorob in KY
August 26, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
I’ll have to agree with fieldofdreams. Many of our good teams had regulars that we may not consider “good enough” to be on a playoff team (Lonnie Smith, Sid Bream, Rafel Belliard, Mark Lemke, Greg Olson, et al).
There are some young arms that aree seemingly out of favor with their current teams the Braves could consider: Franklin Morales, Sean Marshall, Ian Snell, Justin Verlander and or Homer Baily. The asking price shouldn’t be too much for them.
The other piece those Braves teams had was a good defense. With a good defense young Glavine, Smoltz, Avery and others weren’t afraid to pitch to contact. That’s why I DON’T want to see Dunn or Burrell in the OF and would like to see KJ and Blanco traded, as long as we get something useful back.
Back to bacis - good pitching, good defense and an opportunistic offense. The opportunistic offense can’t be a bunch of hitters K too much, very much a weakness for Blanco, KJ, Dunn and Burrell or are 3 outcome hitters (K, BB or HR).
Matt Kemp is probably becoming untouchable but he would be a NICE addition. If not, Brandon Jones, Anderson\Schaffer and a resurgent Frenchy makes a good OF. McCann makes up for a bunch with his power and 2B can be filled internally.
By Anders
August 26, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
From DOB’s blog:
As Bobby Cox conceded on Sunday, Chipper just isn’t going to get as many pitches to hit the rest of the way, without Teixeira hitting behind him.
Another reason Chipper will agree to go after this year. Maybe even lightly push for it behind the scenes if mgt. won’t spend the $’s required. Where is that protection coming from next season? Does he really want to see nothing but garbage pitches for a season or two waiting for the rebuild? Chipper’s not there for the money or to tutor players. He’s a competitive gamer. No way he’ll last in that environment next season unless they get him some protection.
They’ll have the money - will they (over)spend it? That’s what it’s gonna take. Nobody’s coming for a Georgia discount.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Tonight’s game will be Chipper’s 2000 career game!McFann
Guess you’re not reading the initial blog to its conclusion.
By BT
August 26, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Everyone is talking about possible trades. I am going to take a simplistic stance and say try to move the players with the worst attitudes. If we have trouble in the clubhouse let’s move the trouble makers. It’s tough to play for a losing team but it seems like Bobby Cox is a very good manager to play for. If a player is a malcontent on this team he needs to go.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Mmm…Thanks for the info, Chief. I had a feeling he wouldn’t be playing tonight…
Yeah, I would imagine that leg is not a pretty sight!
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Dude, I always hit “post” too soon…
Hope it heals up quickly! Shin-injuries stink, man.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Oh, and it’s entirely sunny out here right now.
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the weather info, McFann. I guess it started moving faster after the worst part got over us (still drizzling raining here right now) - that figures. We had tornado warnings every couple of hours all night Saturday night and one again Sunday night and one again last night/3am this morning. Enough already!
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
I think it makes sense to deal Kotsay to the Phils. Its an opportunity to deplete the Phils system at least in a very slight way. Grab one prospect away from them and you never know.
By Jamie in Richmond
August 26, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
DOB In regards to your take on coaching changes: I dont understand why the Braves would feel the need to make changes amongst the coaching staff, although if I were going to can anybody it’d be the one guy that you think appears to be safe- McDowell. Is it Eddie’s fault that Frenchy’s had an awful year? Did Hubbard so something in coaching first base to somehow cause all of the pitching injuries to acrue? Did Chino eat somebody’s lunch? Say what you will about TP and the struggles of AJ and Frenchy under him, but it was also under Terry’s watch that Andruw finally realized his MVP runner-up potential, and it’s been under his watch that guys like McCann and Prado have hit even better in the majors than they ever did in the minors. Blaming this stuff on the coaches is silly. And if they make coaching changes just to show that “look, changes are underway…we don’t tolerate losing”, then they should really make an impression and stop signing jokers like Rodrigo Lopez, stop clinging to guys like Corky Miller for half a year, and start allowing the guys who will make or break out future to play now. What’s going on right now in Atl is a joke, and if they fire the hitting coach or bullpen coach to “make a statement”, the only statement it will make is one of ignorance, IMO.
By marcopolo
August 26, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Can you run stats on Wren’s time as a GM in Baltimore versus his one year here? Pretty eye-opening, no? Some guys should just be number 2’s—by all accounts, he’s a nice guy. But if Cincinnati and Baltimore didn’t want him as GM, why did we? And has anyone noticed or mentioned that Dayton Moore’s Royals are exactly 1 game behind our Braves???
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
DOB Guess you’re not reading the initial blog to its conclusion.
Heh heh…Sorry, Chief…I uh, guess I missed that part…
Oopsie…I feel stupid now…Sorry…
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Hit, Heap, Hit!—
You’re welcome! We had one tornado warning last night, but just a watch otherwise. We’ve got some good rain.
The rain’s not so bad, but yeah, enough with the tornados!
N Nine @ 5:17—
Haha…
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
hahaha, I guess we will just agree to disagree Shaun.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Glad to read it’s sunny, there, DOB! Let’s play some BASEBALL, people!
By Brian
August 26, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Anders- And who will come for a New York Mut discount? Tell me that? And don’t ignore my question either! Chipper Jones won’t go anywhere. If he did I’d be shocked. You were right about one thing-CJ is a competetive gamer. NOTHIN’ BUT PURE JEALOUSY!
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Anders, you can keep dreaming about Chipper “going after this year’ but it ain’t happening, son. I know you Mutts are counting the days until he retires but it ain’t going to be any time soon so just sit down with that pipe dream. :D
By braves70
August 26, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Many thanks to Mark Kotsay. He was one guy who showed up and did even more than expected on this wretched team. I hope his back stays healthy and he stars in a playoff series. Let the Schafer era begin?
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Jamie, I didn’t say that I’d make changes, I said that I don’t think there’s a guarantee that anyone’s assured of coming back — and that’s for a variety of reasons. There might be a guy who doesn’t want to come back, for instance. I just said that if McDowell wants back, and I have no reason to think he doesn’t, then I’m pretty certain he’ll be back. Have heard nothing but rave reviews for him from everyone — pitchers, team officials, Cox, etc.
By Anders
August 26, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Brian
Why so angry?
There are no discounts in NY. I never said anything about that??
As for jealousy, we’re pretty set at 3rd for a while. I was thinking more the Yanks for Chipper. Jeter’s going to the outfield sooner rather than later (think Robin Yount). A-Rod could move to short Chipper to third or Chipper could take Giambi’s place at 1st. Plus he could DH a couple of times a week. This is not as farfetched as you guys think.
Not sure if you heard, but he was flirting with the New York City last time in. Hmmm…
By Metropolitan Man
August 26, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Anders, you can keep dreaming about Chipper “going after this year’ but it ain’t happening, son. I know you Mutts are counting the days until he retires but it ain’t going to be any time soon so just sit down with that pipe dream.
He will end up in the A.L. D’Hing before he takes another hometown discount…you can bet on that. He is going to pull a Glavine. Go to another team willimg to pay for his bat (not the diminishing skills) for 2-3 years then come back to Altanta for his final year while taking the team to the cleaners during his fairwell tour. I hope he does go somewhere else, he deserves it. Just not for the METS or in the N.L for that matter.
By DAP
August 26, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
goodoldboy58 i didnt mean to insinuate that cruz should be our only free agent signing! obviously, that wont do. but, i think he would be a good one, if other needs are addressed.
By Metropolitan Man
August 26, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
*BTW—Mets-Fillies series kicks off tonight. Eesh…talk about nightmares… Who do y’all think will come out on top? *
DA METS!!
By Original Jon
August 26, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Braves should fire Pendleton and promote Chris Chambliss to hitting coach. I mean, as far as I can remember, he had a better career average and drove in more runs than Terry. Give him a shot.
I just wish someone would offer him a managers job that he couldnt refuse and he would take it.
Or, have Cox retire, have TP as manager, promote Chambliss
By ccrider
August 26, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
By ccrider
August 26, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
DOB, Risking widespread blog derision: I know a few years ago the Braves had a “THANG” for Rocco Baldelli. I know of course about his medical disabilities, but I see he is back playing and playing well. He is a free agent at the end of the season and IF the medical reports indicate that he can play a 130 games with his condition, do you think the Braves would take a flyer on him for the left field spot, since it would only cost a modest amount of money and no other compensation. I know it’s a risk and if they bring back Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz it will compound the risk, but I think all these players at the right price could be worth it, as long as we fill our needs otherwise(through our farm system or free agency).
By Brian
August 26, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Anders- I was calling all that built up, Braves prevented us going to the playoffs, type jealousy. Why all the interest in CJ and the Braves all of the sudden. Mabye cause for the first time in awhile your Muts actually have a chance and we’re having a down year. Wright is a good one, I’ll give you that, but that wasn’t my point. I think you Mut fans are in for a real disapointment real soon. Remember- bullpen? OUCH!!!
By NickC
August 26, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
I’ve only been watching the Braves for about a month, and I’ve probably been spoiled watching Pedroia the last couple of years, but seriously I have seen alot balls get by Kelly that should be makeable plays. KJ doesn’t impress at all at 2nd, IMO.
The comparison with Prado wasn’t meant as a compliment to Kelly, it’s more a comment on Prado’s ability being even worse. All Prado’s done so far is show he’s a good bench player and I don’t see what’s wrong with that. We need good bench players. Why can’t we just leave him where he is?
If we go for Dunn or Burrell as free agents, I hope it’s for a maximum of three years. All their comparables had rapid declines and it would be a bad move to be paying them $15 million in 4/5 years time to do nothing.
If Jocketty wasn’t their GM, I’d try and get Harang from the Reds. He’ll improve immeasurably once he’s away from Dusty Baker. As it is, Jocketty won’t undervalue him.
Taking sentiment out of the equation, the Braves should trade Chipper. He has one year left on his current contract, get some good prospects and resign him when we’re more competitive. You can’t take sentiment out though and I don’t want to see him wearing another uni.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
MetMan—
Haha…Gee, I thought for sure you’d say the Fillies…
: >
By DAP
August 26, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
regenerator Looks like you and I are sharing a brain on the Kelly Johnson trade talk.
ok,but im gonna need to take it tomorrow. i have to go to work.
lawton you are forgiven. :-) nah i figured thats all. i think most would agree that the bullpen is an area that has often been a patchwork deal for the braves. i think maybe spending money on soriano might be a signal that wren sees the value in relievers, and will spend on the bullpen, which would be nice.
By TommyP
August 26, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Chipper - .375 slugging since the All Star Break. Ugh.
Just 4 extra base hits since the All Star Break.
Interesting dialogue on here regarding Kelly vs. Prado.
Right now the only debate with Prado is “can he do what he’s done over a full season?” Of course, we have to give him a shot to do that, don’t we?
Soon as we get some youth up here TO PLAY, I’ll start tuning in again.
By 1987 Braves Fan
August 26, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, I remember when the (shocking) HGH news about Jordan Schafer came out, either he or his father came out and said that he really wanted to set the record straight, implying that there was a mistake or exigent circumstances. Did anything ever come of this? If they’ve been silent (which, since I have no info to the contrary, I’ll assume), I’d guess that’s essentially an admission of guilt but I was just curious as to whether or not he ever clarified the situation.
By Coach ( Skip will be missed)
August 26, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
I decided to do some side by side comparison’s between the 1991 Braves and our current squad just to see where the Braves are really at, with youth and talent.
I’ll list the age and players of the top ten that were considered to be essential in 1991 and the same for the present team.
Steve Avery 21
Tom Glavine 25
John Smoltz 24
David Justice 25
Ron Gant 26
Terry Pendleton 30
Mike Stanton 24
Kent Mercker 22
Mark Wohlers 21
Vinny Castilla 23
Now, for the 2008 team:
Jair Jurrjens 22
Charlie Morton 24
Mike Gonzalez 30
Brian McCann 24
Yunel Escobar 25
Casey Kotchman 25
Jeff Francoeur 24
Kelly Johnson 26
Jo-Jo Reyes 23
Gregor Blanco 24
In my estimation, the youth and talent is present. What is missing is the pitching. In 1991 that bunch had six names on the mound. This current team is lacking in that department.
The other comparison is, in 91 they cranked 141 HR’s and stole 165 bases.
2008 has produced 110 HR’s and 39 stolen bases.
This Braves team needs pitching, defense, speed, power, all of the above, etc.etc.etc. I do not envy Frank Wren.
By JEB
August 26, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
DOB Noticed the stats you put up for Kelly of late. I remember last year you putting up some similar numbers for Kelly and you spoke of the fatigue of a long season sitting in on him (his first full season). Is it possible that this is the same situation, and perhaps Kelly is not cut out for playing these long seasons?
The way it looks (last year and this) that his batting avg. falls and his fielding perc. also falls off (more errors).
Could it be that (even though he is an athlete) that physically he is not able to endure the grind of a long season? This is 2 years running with the same problem.
By Metropolitan Man
August 26, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
McFann
The philthies are a forced to be reckoned with…. and the METS will force 2 losses on them. One pitcher will be coming from the left, the other coming from the right. They will never know who or what hit them….in their own backyard at that.
Surfing the net and reading articles lets me know both teams are jacked up so it should make for great baseball. Hopefully it will overshadow the has beens stankees and sox series.
By gotigers72
August 26, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
One BIG reason that Pujols is on a rampage lately and Chipper is not, is that Pujols gets to hit against Braves’ pitching and Chipper does not. Sure, the big guy was hot, but he wasn’t getting anything but big, fat cookies thrown to him by Braves pitchers. And he don’t miss big, fat cookies. Thigh high and above, over the middle of the plate. Go back and check the replays of his at bats if you have the technology to do so. It’s like he was paying the Braves pitchers to groove pitches for him.
Nice post about the Braves coaches DOB. I have thought that the Braves have missed Corrales a lot more than is known, since he left. I had no question about him leaving when it first happened, because the way it was spun was like he was retiring. Then he shows up with the Nats. I know they have a terrible record, but I thought he was a hell of a bench coach with the Braves, and still is with the Nats. He can’t do anything about the lack of talent. I STILL wonder why he left the ATL.
Chino….I don’t know about. I like Hubbard, beginning to wonder about T.P.and McDowell though. Although Andruw’s year this year should prove that the fault lies more at Andruw’s feet than at T.P.s feet. Something is just not right there. Too many yes men maybe. Too many unbelievable strategical mistakes, mishandling of pitchers, etc. I have heard Leo say before that BC is the best pitcher’s MANAGER [not pitching coach], but I can’t agree with that for the last couple of years. After all, TWO of the three most used relievers are in the Braves bullpen. And it is kind of obvious that both of them [Boyer and Ohman] have shown signs of tired arms recently. Ohman was lights out until the last half dozen or so appearances. Boyer started losing it a little earlier than that. You just can’t use those guys night after night. I realize injuries and ultra short outings by the younger pitchers [‘specially JoJo and Charlie] have caused some of the overuse, but stuff like having Stockman up and not using him hardly at all have to be thrown in the mix also. It’s not like Stockman was pitiful when he WAS used. In fact, he was pretty good. Like I said, something on the staff is just not right. Wish Corrales or Jimy Williams one was the bench coach. Chino looks like a deer in the headlights.
By NickC
August 26, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
1987 Braves Fan AFAIK Schafer has a court order preventing him from discussing the circumstances of his suspension.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
Pretty awesome double rainbow going right now above Turner Field, with one of them going straight into the Braves’ bullpen. Kid you not.
If only Braves could find some gold there, or some healthy relievers.
By Billy
August 26, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
I would love to see Schafer called up this September. Someone would have to be removed from the 40 man roster in order for Schafer to be added to the 40 man roster. One option would be to move a player on the 15 day disable list to the 60 day DL.
With J.D. Drew going on the DL chances of a Kotsay trade seem good. Either Anderson, who has been up once already, or Schafer could handle CF. If it is Schafer it will be his first taste and his clock will start.
By potions for motions
August 26, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Tex’s comments, “There’s no need to worry about contracts in the middle of the season; Many other guys on the team are free agents at the end of the year and want to wait too, are only worried about the season”, are the reason for the Angels playing .500 ball as of late.
Just more reason why team chemistry is so important. You have a guy like Kotchman, perhaps the Angels MVP before being traded, that did really well on that team. He didn’t put up Tex numbers, but the team was simply outstanding.
Here, with no system, but with THIS team sitting back, waiting for the long ball, waiting on someone else to do something, Kotchman has struggled. Tex nor Kotchman are difference makers that can carry a team. Chipper Jones, Francouer, Kelly Johnson, Blanco, Kotsay - none of those are “difference makers, but yet, pieces to a large puzzle (maybe Francouer a lost piece, or a defected one you send back to the manufacturer) The closest thing we have is a catcher who will get over-zealous on the base baths in order to provide a spark, and maybe a SS who the team doesn’t want to get too wound up.
I like Prado. It’s a start. KJ, Francoeuer, have had their shots. I want someone that can seize the moment, not someone that takes us on a years long journeys, sitting, waiting, for the sparks to fly. Lets move on Atlanta and get some new players that will play well together…
By JEB
August 26, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
On Braves Live they are showing 2 rainbows … and… THE TARPS ARE COMING OFF!!
Play Ball!!
Radar looks pretty clear for awhile around ATL.
By Chop Chop
August 26, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
If the bullpen starts pitching well after tonight, I guess fans can start waving rainbow flags at Braves games!
(On second thought…uh, not a good idea.)
By Chino
August 26, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Deer in headlights? I’m just laid back. Bobby runs the show and I talk to Yunel and Gregor in Cuban how Bobby’s style is like old chalupas. Gotta run, there’s a game tonight,I think.
By JEB
August 26, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Chipper Jones, Francouer, Kelly Johnson, Blanco, Kotsay - none of those are “difference makers” Potions for Motions
Chipper is not a difference maker??? WOW! Have you checked what the won - loss difference is when Chipper is playing vs. NOT playing??
Might want to do that before you add his name in there.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
KOTSAY SCRATCHED. Could be a trade. Wren went in Cox’s office this afternoon and closed the door for a while.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Hmmm…Kotsay scratched, Boog and Joe speculating trade. Very interesting.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
MetMan—
OK, kick some Fillie butt! (I actually don’t care who wins one way or the other.)
DOB—
Saw that rainbow on TV! Awesome is right!
WHAT’S UP WITH KOTSAY???
By Ronald Millsaps
August 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
“DAP”—You’re quick to say we don’t need Dunn or Furcal, but the reality is that we very much could both or either.
“coach”—For the most part, this season has been extremely hard to evaluate, but I’m glad you mentioned the stolen-base disparity between 1991 and this season. The main problem with this season is that the Braves have been passive, not aggressive. The fact that they have such few stolen bases is a symptom of this reality.
I can understand not sending Escobar or Johnson, as neither guy has blazing speed, but all these times Gregor Blanco has gotten on base and has just stayed there for the next two or three outs is downright inexcusable.
As for the criticisms of Johnson, do some research. He was Ty Cobb-like last year when batting lower in the order, and even Bobby admitted that Johnson was better-suited for that role. For whatever reason, Bobby had him return to leadoff late last season and had him bat leadoff for about the first 25% of this season. He’s a table-clearer, not a table-setter.
As for Teixeira, I’m not sure why a couple of people on here insist on supporting the guy obsessively, but he just wasn’t that good this season. He did a terrific job down the stretch last year, but this year he was cold as ice for the first two months. I think he’s simply waiting for the season to end to see how high the offers will go, whether he’s pursuing the highest offer or not.
On a different note, in response to the general media acting like USA Basketball isn’t as far ahead as it once was, think again. Our team plays by international rules in such competitions, and if another team is lights-out from three-point range, as Spain was, and still can’t win or stay within single digits, that only verifies my point, not the media’s. As I watched a little of this year’s squad, I enjoyed watching NBA players who weren’t under the regime of David Stern and Rod Thorn, who have subtracted immense credibility from the league. I also was glad that Jason Kidd spoke the truth about double standards, and it’s infuriating that the media implied that his honesty somehow was uncalled for. Quite the opposite; we need more people to speak the truth.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
It’s a trade, just don’t know who yet.
By Chop Chop
August 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Mark Teixeira wasn’t a difference-maker for the Braves.
They’re 8-17 without him, but at least we don’t have to put up with his colossal abject failure to hit in the clutch. Who needs meaningless homers (you know, before the seventh inning)? They just don’t mean as much in the hearts and minds of fellow players and fans.
Give me a guy who only hits homers in close games after the seventh inning. That’s a guy I can win a lot of games with.
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Best of luck to Kots, wherever he’s going.
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
Evening denizens…
We have ‘Take Me Out To The Ballgame’, we have vendors shouting out pleas to buy everything from the classic ballpark fare of peanuts, popcorn and programs, and beginning on Thursday, we will now have instant replay in Major League Baseball.
I can’t quite imagine Joe West reaching for the switch on his microphone, clearing his throat over an open mic, then laying this out for the crowd at the game and the television audience, “Ummmm, yeah. After, uh, further review. It’s a home run, and the lights aren’t on like they need to be, so we’ll now proceed with the ejection of Bobby Cox. Oh, by the way, buy my country music CD.”
Not that MLB umpires will be miked up, but if you ask me, the Doug Eddings, Angel Hernandezes, Bob Davisons of the world need all the help they can get. The good umpires (and no, I don’t consider the three I just mentioned plus West in that category) need help with all of the signs, fans, railings and everything else that now are standard at ballparks across baseball. While I like the idea of replay, and I support the idea, I would have preferred that we started a season with it rather than changing things up a little more than three quarters of the way through the year.
Mark Kotsay is out of the lineup tonight, a late scratch due possibly to an impending deal. I like Kotsay, hope he does well wherever he ends up. It’s a shame he missed as much time as he did with his back.
JJJ rolls through the first inning at the ‘ol ballpark.
By Couch Tater
August 26, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
The Suspense……..The intrigue…
By Interested Observer
August 26, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
I’m betting Boston. They just put Drew on the DL today.
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
I’m reading his name on a Red Sox blog posted 45 minutes ago under the headling “Kotsay rumors picking up steam”. FWIW.
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
RBI double by the Offensive Assassin.
By NickC
August 26, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
JD Drew placed on DL today. That would seem to be an indication.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Yes, Interested Observer: Boston is the likely team.
By Josh
August 26, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
In spite of his injury issues Kotsay was pretty solid this season. Hopefully he is able to stay healthy and help whatever team he’s going to.
By braves70
August 26, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the 1991 stats. I loved the speed on that team with Otis Nixon and Deion Sanders leading the way. I cannot understand why Cox got away from that style of play. Speed is never in a slump and we manufactured many runs in 1991.
By Jamie in Richmond
August 26, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Prado just doubled. Up to .344.
Waiting for one of you knuckleheads to tell me again how he “terrible” he is.
.344 knuckleheads.
By keylargo
August 26, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Watching Luis Gonzalez fly out to center field made me think of his year in 2001 when that routine fly ball would have been a HR. He hit 57, drove in 141 and had an OPS over 1.1.
I don’t know why I thought of it but it is a travesty that players who obviously used drugs are still playing. Gonzalez’s year and Brady Anderson, I think in 96, stand out as much as any in the drug era.
By Bobby's Cox
August 26, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
well, I hope we get something just as good as Devine for Kotsay….
nice first inning by the braves and their “utility” guys.
lol.
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Great approaches at the plate by Infante and Prado in particular in the first and it’s good to see three on the board early for a change.
By Jamie in Richmond
August 26, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
* David *
I hear you. I know you werent saying that the coaches necessarily should go…I was just thinking aloud, and don’t understand why, of all moves that they need to make, that’d be a priority. Apparently they love McDowell. Personally, I don’t really understand why…but if he’s good enough for Bobby, he’s good enough for me :) Thanks for the info…
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
Anyone surprised that batting Frenchy & KJ side by side just killed that rally. Why isn’t Sammons and JJ batting before those sure-outs?
Better yet, why are they playing?
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Feel that chant coming on again at our house - Braves lose, Braves lose, Braves lose, Braves lose … Braves lose
By Hunting like Cheney
August 26, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
As for the criticisms of Johnson, do some research. He was Ty Cobb-like last year when batting lower in the order, and even Bobby admitted that Johnson was better-suited for that role. For whatever reason, Bobby had him return to leadoff late last season and had him bat leadoff for about the first 25% of this season. He’s a table-clearer, not a table-setter
Another KJ argument that’s easy to shoot down.
As opposed to someone like Prado who hits everywhere in the lineup?
Like I said, easy to shoot down.
By the way, how could KJ be like Ty Cobb last year. I thought Cobb was more of a table setter, not a table-clearer.
We’ll see how that .349 against lefties holds up tonight also.
By Yunel Lillibridge
August 26, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
DOB, If the Scott THORMAN is among the September call-ups, would he have to clear waivers again if he is sent back down to start the season in AAA next season? He’s quietly had a pretty solid year at Richmond, batting around .250 with 19 bombs, slugging around .750. Are the Braves ready to give him another audition with Atlanta, perhaps as the power bat they need in LF? His career Avg/OPS/K rate aren’t all that much lower than say, pat Burrell, who himself doesn’t bat much above .250 each yr and strikes out an awful lot. Just a thought, given Thor’s relative resurgence this yr to the numbers the Braves hoped he’d produce in Atlanta followoing the LaRoche deal.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
Center fielder Mark Kotsay was a late scratch from the Braves� lineup Tuesday, fueling speculation he would traded before the end of the night to the Boston Red Sox.
A person familiar with the situation said the Braves were close enough to a trade with an undisclosed team that they didn�t want to risk having Kotsay get hurt playing on the rain-soaked surface at Turner Field.
The Red Sox placed outfielder J.D. Drew on the disabled list for a back problem. Coincidentally, Kotsay spent five weeks on the DL this season for a bulging disc, and missed most of the 2007 season with Oakland after back surgery during spring training.
The Braves traded reliever Joey Devine to the Athletics for Kotsay as a stopgap center fielder to bridge the transition from Andruw Jones to prospect Jordan Schafer. Kotsay has hit .289 with six homers and 37 RBIs in 87 games for the Braves.
Schafer served a 50-game suspension for suspected use of human growth hormone this season at Class AA Mississippi, but still might be ready to take over in center for the Braves in 2009.
They have other options including rookie Gregor Blanco, who has been a pleasant surprise this season for Atlanta, and Josh Anderson, who was acquired from Houston in another trade last winter before the Kotsay deal.
Schafer or Anderson could be brought up from the minors to fill Kotsay’s roster spot when a trade is finalized.
The Athletics agreed to pay all but $2 million of Kotsay�s $7.350 million salary this season. He�s eligible for free agency this winter.
By Scott from Fairburn
August 26, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Kotsay Deal
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
I find it amusing that alot of the people who are crying for more stolen bases seem to be the people who have no confidence in Bobby Cox.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Haha! What a play by Uggla!
That ball just flat out died!
By Lawton
August 26, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Heyward is in the lineup tonight — for Myrtle Beach.
According to MiLB.com
By Coach ( Skip will be missed)
August 26, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Kotsay has been traded to the Red Sox.
By Crimson Mafia
August 26, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Prado just doubled. Up to .344. Waiting for one of you knuckleheads to tell me again how he “terrible” he is. .344 knuckleheads.
Yeah, remember when those knuckleheads doubted Nick Green? Nick Green sure showed them, hitting .307 with a .389 OBP and a .421 SLG in the first 135 plate appearances of the 2004 season. Lil’ Nicky Green has never looked back. Never looked back. Ain’t no knuckleheads doubting whether lil’ Nicky Green belongs in the show anymore.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Could JEff look any worse out there in RF?
And nice throw to the cut-off man.
Argh - put him on the bench.
See ya Kotsay(’s wife)
By Yunel Lillibridge
August 26, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Regarding my last THORMAN post, I obviously realize that despite the relative similarities in Thor’s minor league numbers compared to Burrell’s MLB numbers, Burrell is an entirely different caliber player than Thorman. While Thorman’s defense may not be optimal in LF, some of the names mentioned the Braves going after in the off-season (IE. Josh Willingham and even Burrell) are also big guys that aren’t too fleet of foot either. As bad as FRENCHY has been this year, Thorman would have certainly exceeded Jeff’s offensive numbers (I realize that’s not saying much). But, why not package Frenchy in a deal for pitching, give Thorman a shot in LF, then go after another more consistent power bat for RF.
By THIS JUST IN
August 26, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Jurrjens could be tiring. He hasn’t looked great the last few times out. He is young, so this is probably to be expected.
By Jeff321
August 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
Frenchy misses the cutoff man, eh?
By uga-brave
August 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
how many bad routes and cutoff men have frenchy missed this year?
safe to say i dont see any consecutive gold gloves in his future.
By ernesto
August 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
JJJ is tired.
And we just flat out have no pitching.
Highest ERA since the All-STrar break since they started keepign records? Yikes!
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Chants getting louder
By DAP
August 26, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
ronnie milsaps You’re quick to say we don’t need Dunn or Furcal, but the reality is that we very much could both or either.
ok, well let me elaborate. dunn will an expensive, poor fielding lefty strikeout machine in a lefty laden lineup, who will require a long deal and thus is likely to block some of the many braves outfielders on the way up.
furcal is an injury prone shortstop currently out with a bad back who will make twice what he is worth to a team that already has a shortstop.
so thats my reasoning.
By chris
August 26, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
I hope we get some pitching. Buchholz’s stock has fallen this year, but I can’t imagine that Kotsay will get someone that highly regarded.
By Brian
August 26, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Jurrjens wearing down, uhhh slighty. He looks aweful.
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
This team is sooooo predictable!!!
They’ve got a will to lose
So much for the Marlins being down and it’s a good time to play them. DOB - much (if not most) of this year has seen struggling teams suddenly get better when they play the Braves.
Still thinking this team could lose 100
By DAP
August 26, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
this is wierd. its gone south quick for the braves. hopefully the braves can pound olsen.
By NO MORE BOBBY
August 26, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
KELLY JOHNSON is the biggest slacker on the Braves!! When is the last time you saw him at the end of a game with a “play hard” dirty uniform? The inning should be over by now but no hustle from Kelly covering first base. Man this team needs a major makeover. Sad yo watch as this franchise is headed towards Hawks territory fast (pre Celtics series).
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Lay down Braves
No life in them - scoring for them is likely done for the evening
Way to blow a rare good start to a game!
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Uh…Jurrjens??
I don’t like using the “fatigue” excuse too much, but in this case…
Ernesto—
Whoa…That’s sick…
And I don’t mean “Dude, that’s like totally awesome” sick…This is sick as in…I think I need to puke…
By Couch Tater
August 26, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
I guess the rainbow ended on Kotsay. Seems like a nice team guy. I hope he has fun in the post-season.
By Coach ( Skip will be missed)
August 26, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Hopefully, the Braves do the right thing and call up Josh Anderson. 6-3 Marlins with Scott Olsen pitching, F-U-G-L-Y.
By TNJeff
August 26, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
This inning - 3 hitters then 2 sure outs
Need Prado to clear the bases with a homer
By Interested Observer
August 26, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
It will be interesting to see whether the Braves call up Anderson or Shafer to replace Kotsay. It probably doesn’t really matter since Sept. 1 is right around the corner and they could have both up if they wanted to.
I hate to see Kotsay go but I’m glad he’ll get a chance to play for a contender. He’s a helluva player.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
There is no fight in this team. They will lay down for the rest of the game. See how few pitches it will take for the rest of the game…
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Grove just hit his 30th double of the season…the bases were loaded…knocked in RBI 72, 73, and 74…
I was already crushed…this just put a little extra mold on the bread…
By David-ATL14
August 26, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
My guess will be that Lillibridge gets summoned tomorrow then Sept 1 Anderson gets recalled.
Schafer stays in Mississippi for their playoff series then takes a little break before Winter ball.
We’ll see Schafer in ST 2009.
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
JJ’s night is done. Got to wonder if he’s starting to feel the close to 160 innings pitched so far this year.
Nice to see #29 in the dugout to talk to and encourage JJ when he left the field.
It’s been a bad All-Star game and second half for Dan Uggla, but I didn’t think it was as bad as the numbers have been in the last two weeks. We know it’s been bad for Jeff Francoeur, but including tonight so far (and taking to account Jeff’s 4th inning K), Francoeur is hitting .222 while Uggla is at .189.
By Ghost of 1990 Braves
August 26, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Braves taking a golden shower, tonight. Great to see Frenching mailing it in. Hope he likes it in Gwinette next season.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand pinch-hitting for Buddy there. Why unnecessarily tax the bullpen in a game you are going to lose anyway…
Let Buddy pitch 2 or 3 innings. He’s not just a 1 inning guy. Geez, someone is asleep at the wheel.
I mean, who really thought Brandon Jones was going to do something there? Honestly?
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Greg in TN, thinking same thing as you about Jurrjens. Sure looked to me like he might have been favoring it a bit, saw him kind of loosening that shoulder up a few times, like it might have been fatigued or tight.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
Could Joe and Boog be any more bored?
I’m not sure how much more of this game I can take.
By Brian
August 26, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Hey, in a slump? Having a bad year? Come to Atlanta and you are 100 percent sure to break out of those unsightly blues! Money back gauranteed! That’s how confident we are.
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
So far, I’m enjoying the shots SportSouth is showing tonight in their Best Facial Hair contest. They’ve shown vintage shots of Glenn Hubbard, Al Hrabosky, Bruce Sutter and Bill Lee. Quite the selection of old school beards.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Wow.
This place is dead anyway
By The obvious
August 26, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
TRADE JURRJENS NOW WHILE HE HAS VALUE AND DOESN’T UNDERGO SHOULDER SURGERY!!!!!
NO WONDER THE TIGERS TRADED HIM.
HE CAN’T PITCH MORE THAN 150 INNINGS IN A SEASON!!!!
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
I’ll be int’rested to read what the Braves players think about Z being traded. I know he was a good clubhouse guy.
WE’LL MISS YOU, MARK!!
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
DOB He definitely looks tired to me and it seems like he’s lost a little bit off his fastball. Not surprising at all considering the load he’s had to carry this year.
Do you have any thoughts about what we might expect back from the Red Sox in terms of what level of prospect they’ll send?
By Canuckbravesfan
August 26, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Two starts ago JJ struck out 9 with 0 Walks. This was a career high for him. Since then he has struck only 1 hitter (tonight) which looks a lot like fatigue.
By ncscoots
August 26, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH (can I just call you Steve-OH? I like the sound of it), I agree that trading Kelly Johnson for OF help would be a mistake. But, getting young, stud, under-club-control pitching is going to require trading more than just prospects. The right piece in that kind of trade is going to have be ML-caliber, I think, and Kelly is the most attractive piece there. It’s unfortunate, and makes the offense potentially worse, but whatchagonnado? Bloggers notwithstanding, actual baseball-employed people likely still find Johnson holding value.
All depends on the available deals, I guess. Maybe Wren finds some diamonds among the rust this offseason, and Kelly can still wear a Braves’ uni when he regains his form.
By jerry
August 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
it’ll be interesting to see what the crowd looks like tomorrow. I’m chalking tonight up to the weather.
By N Nine
August 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
If we expect to plug in Jurrjens as the ace next year, It would become a long year! we need someone like CC. No we should not trade him, that would create no potential starters slated!
By jerry
August 26, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Good at bat for Jeff!
By Jeff321
August 26, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
The Dodgers have 19 LOB through 7 innings!
By Buster Gammons
August 26, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
News Flash… Mark Kotsay, one of the few Braves that plays the game with professionalism and class, was traded today to Boston Red Sox for Class A lefty reliever Georger P. Burdell and cash.
Said Kotsay upon hearing the news, “I enjoyed playing for the Braves, but I was concerned about catching the disease that seems to cause Atlanta outfielders become mindless zombies that swing at anything thrown regardless of the situation. I have a hot wife, I do not want to become a zombie hitter.”
Burdell immediately hanged himself in the locker room, rather than join the Braves.
By Mac
August 26, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
I am guessing, for no good reason but team needs and the guy’s name, that Bubba Bell would be the return on Kotsay.
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/bell-bubba.htm
By JJMB
August 26, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
George P would never commit suicide…. Unless he got traded to the Braves. Poor ßastard! RIP.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
scoots, call me whatever you want. Good post at 9:17, BTW.
By Buster Gammons
August 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Senile Skipper, Bobby Cox, was asked about Burdell. Said Cox, “That George P. Burdell is throwing lights out, I tell ya.” Reminded that Burdell had just killed himself, Cox indicated that “Georgy Porgy will replace Nunez or Tavarez, after all their stiffs, too. All those boys are lights out.”
Bobby, I think you could say you are lights out, nobody home.
By Brian
August 26, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
After all the complaining about the hitting,myself included, as this season goes on it’s obvious how bad we need an ace. Not a #2/#3 starter, but a real ace. Gotta do what it takes,within reason, to get that done. As much as we all liked Kotsay, good move to get something out of him. Alright enough b***,for now.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Marlins had home-field advantage tonight — playing in front of empty seats in a morgue-like atmosphere.
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Nothing breaks a slump better than Braves pitching.
How pathetic has this bullpen become…
By Vitriolics Anonymus
August 26, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Putrid. Vomiticious. New Kids On The Block.
By StingerSplash
August 26, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
I go to dinner with some friends — some sushi, good Kirin Ichiban, some laughs — and I turn on the game and hear Pete talk about a potential trade for Kotsay. Wow. If it is the Sox, their minor league system is pretty well stocked. I say go for Bowden or Bard, get some pitching. If not, Lars Anderson or Josh Reddick would be good pickups. There is no point in an immediate fix for the Braves. The cures need to be long-term, not a shot of pain relief.
By brian
August 26, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
DOB - would it be wrong to just shut down Jair for the rest of the year? If there is any arm fatigue or soreness I would shut him down. He is only 22 years of age and still in the process of building up his innings. I would rest him and see what one of the minor leaguers such as Hanson a chance to get their feet wet.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Oh for…Now Grove has hit a solo homer!
[Garble garble garble]…Curse words!…[Garble garble garble]…
By Buster Gammons
August 26, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
News Flash … Entire Braves pitching staff to become batting pratice pitchers for the rest of the National League. Said Cox, “When I sold my soul to the devil in 1991, the old boy said this day would come. I jest never believed it. Can you believe the meatballs these morons are tossing up there.
I mean Tavarez, just made that douche Mike Jacobs look like Joe Dimaggio. Old Bezelbulb said in the name of Len Barker and Marvin Freeman let real spirit of the Braves from the 70’s and 80’s inhabit the the bodies of the current Braves.
Seems like old Brad Komminsk has crawled into Frenchy as well.
By uga-brave
August 26, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
just a tweak or two ought to do the trick right frank?
yeah right.
note to frank. only one player in our everyday lineup could crack the marlins lineup.
By JMP
August 26, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Ummmmmmmmmm, this is looking like a long term rebuilding plan.
By Random
August 26, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Josh: “In spite of his injury issues Kotsay was pretty solid this season.”
You got that right!
Maybe he had a somewhat slow start in Apr (.286/.333/.405), and again after coming back from the DL (Jul: .280/.310/.317). But these are pretty much right at his career numbers for AVG/OBP/SLG. (Except for Jul SLG.)
And now consider his numbers for the month before his DL stint, and for this month:
May: .304/.345/.468
Aug: .288/.356/.500
Well above his career numbers (esp SLG).
In fact, his overall numbers for the season (.289/.338/.418) are almost identical to his career numbers (.282/.337/.415). Slightly better, as we can see.
Definitely solid, with only the disappointment of a month on the DL.
I’d say the Braves got pretty much what they paid for and expected out of Kotsay. I’d say they’d be glad to have him back next year, especially if he continues to finish strong and healthy (with specific regard to his back).
By bravos2249
August 26, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Trading for a player whose elgible for the rule 5 draft????????????????????????????????????
By N Nine
August 26, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
sooooo let me get this straight, we just became worse especially in power/ Outfield offense..
I thought he might of been part of 2N9 plans, but I guess not!
Gosh, we need so much help, I’m getting dizzy. At least we (apperently) got some pitching.
Any word on this young pitcher? Could he become another Jurrjens suprise?
At this point we need major Outfield help. Only Blanco would be suitable and he’s not a given. Maybe Schefer can prove something next month (that is if he gets called up) If he doesn’t come to bigs than, NO, He can’t be a given either!
Braves are going to fill-up the rumors pages all winter long, so that is gonna be fun. Liberty Media is gonna get slammed if they don’t throw money out. SHOW ME THE MONEY
By ncscoots
August 26, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Several here have voiced the sentiment that the Braves need two starters to bolster the rotation next year. I tend to agree with that, but I wonder if the organization wants to commit years and dollars to two pitchers, considering that Hudson will be back in a year and that it’s logical to assume that at least one of the young pitchers in the pipeline will be MLB-ready by 2010. One of those two vet pitchers would then be an older, more-expensive roster position.
Even if you think that one of two new vet pitchers could be traded later, it’s hard for me to visualize the organization planning that way. Just seems out of character.
By Hey there
August 26, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
So say, Jurrjens goes down with an arm injury. Let’s say shoulder, because his problems there have been well documented. Do we still make a twaek here or a tweak there? If you think that is what moves should be made, then you need some sense slapped into you. TRADE CHIPPER. THIS TEAM DOESN’T HAVE THE PITCHING TO COMPETE NEXT YEAR!!!!
By I M Pei
August 26, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Cost rotsa money to re-build.
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
CHOP CHOP:
Yours of 7:21 p.m. Good observation. I’m with you on that, but who.? That’s the power stick we need in ‘09. I don’t really see a trade for a player of that ilk. Our trade potential has taken a serious hit with this ‘08 swoon. FA seems the only option at this point.
By Yokohama Daze
August 26, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Braves are zeroing in on a top ten- maybe top 5?!?- pick in next season’s draft, and they’ll keep that pick even if they sign some FAs, as selections that high are protected.
Anyone got a link to profiles of the players expected to be first round picks in 2009? Haven’t been able to Google anything that talks about the next crop coming along…
By Braint
August 26, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Sad to see our starting CF hitting .289 with 6 HR and 2 SB traded? Wow, how the mighty have fallen. Remember when we were disgusted at our CF last year who hit 25+ HRs and drove in 95+ RBIs?
Would have rather kept Devine and allowed J. Anderson to play in ‘08.
In the next 2 years, when Devine gets 40+ saves in Oakland with an ERA under 2.00, we’ll be able to wonder if that was a worse trade than when we are comparing Harrison’s 17 wins and Elvis’ unbelievable play in Texas.
By McFann =Ô=
August 26, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
That was pointless. Try taking some pitches…dang…
Oh, whee…A walk now…
By jerry
August 26, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
Bases loaded with no outs…and the Braves will score how many runs!!!
By McFann Ô
August 26, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
That’s .285 and dropping fast, by the way…
By Mike
August 26, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
DOB, I have missed several blogs so if this has been covered apoligies. From Bobby’s body language cant say it is a given he is coming back next year. I would have to disagree with Frank Wrens assessment we only need a tweak here or there before the Allstar break. I would go after two solid starters, both corner outfield positions need to be looked at. Also second base and once again questions at first. Enjoy your insight and Go Braves
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
So KELLY JOHNSON’s experiment at 2b is over. PRADO becomes the regular in ‘09 and KELLY shuffles back to the outfield.
By McFann Ô
August 26, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Chipper, would you PLEASE…
Do you want the batting title? I said DO YOU WANT THE BATTING TITLE?
Prove it! Here we go!
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Yokahama Daze:
I thought our pick goes to the MUTTS because we signed the mighty GLAVINE.
By N Nine
August 26, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Braves front office to kotzi: Thx for your great work..and uh thx for that cycle now get out. We need to move on.
By McFann Ô
August 26, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
OK, fine. Just be that way then…
So……was McCann their only option left as a pinch-“hitter”?
Night, all.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Stinger, I’m afraid you’re aiming way too high in what to expect from Red Sox in return for Kotsay.
Please remember, they’re getting a one-month rental, possibly postseason help, and a guy who’s not exactly going to supply a Teixeira-like infusion.
Pending free agents who clear waivers don’t bring big bounties in August trades, generally speaking.
By Urban Shocker
August 26, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Braves continue to make the case for losing 100 games in 2008. Likely to be closer to 110 losses in 2009. Predict that the Braves will finish with the #3 pick in the 2009 draft.
Nice job with the bullpen tonight, Donk. Get someone to change your diaper and please retire. No sugar cubes for you tonight.
By THB
August 26, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
If we are looking at outfielders that aren’t named Burrell or Dunn, then I think we should look into Alex Rios. The Jays might take a deal of Prado/KJ and Lillibridge for him. They’d probably want Escobar though.
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Jason Heyward made his Myrtle Beach debut tonight, going hitless in both games of the doubleheader. Scott Diamond threw a complete game shutot in game 1, giving up 5 hits, walking 1 and striking out 1. Cole Rohrbough threw a complete game shutout in game 2, giving up 2 hits, striking out 4, and walking none. Eric Campbell homered in game 1. (Those games only went 7 innings, btw).
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
Hey can somebody send ole Hoss a case of vitamin water or something?
By jerry
August 26, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
Kotsay performed well with the Braves, but don’t make it seem like the Braves have traded away a cornerstone player, or a major building block.
He’ll be a free agent at season’s end, and if he and the Braves want to reconnect, the opportunity will be there.
The rebuilding that everyone is mentioning has to happen with younger players.
By Urban Shocker
August 26, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
richbrave, the Mets took our #1 pick (#18 overall, I think) in the 2008 draft due to the Braves’ signing of Glavine.
Braves post allstar game ERA is now 6.31, per Boog. The worst in major league history. It is great to be a part of history.
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 26, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, how many tens of people were in attendance tonight? looked like at least 100 on tv.
By StingerSplash
August 26, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
DOB,
A boy can dream still, can’t he? (I was trying to think of an uberhottie who is hooked up but not married and so would technically still be single, but I figure I had one too many Kirins to think clearly). I guess my point is there is plenty to pick off the Red Sox vine. I know for every Mo Vaughn or Nomar Garciaparra there’s a Phil Plantier or Rudy Pemberton waiting. (Great. Can’t think of a hot chick, but I can recall Phil Plantier or Rudy Pemberton without blinking an eye. Check, please!)
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
UNN-believable. Francoeur big hit. Kelly broken-bat hit. And it started with … Infante and Prado. Recurring theme lately. Prado’s a better hitter than I ever thought he’d be.
By Jake
August 26, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
Come on Braves!!!
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
THB, Rios is an interesting idea. The long-term contract might scare FW away, though, if we’re really committed to Schafer/Heyward in the outfield. It would be a nice pickup, but we should be very careful not to overvalue him. He’s not a true difference-maker on the level of Adam Dunn or Manny ramirez.
Infante singles, Prado doubles, Francoeur singles….Kelly singles and takes second with a smart baserunning play….Kotsay back from the rumored waiver abyss???
Where’s the nearest church??
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Braves come into tonight 1-63 when trailing after eight innings….
By Urban Shocker
August 26, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Mr. Gregg is pitching like he is auditioning for the 2009 Braves.
richbrave, also the Mets received a sandwich pick between rounds 1 and 2 for Glavine.
By StingerSplash
August 26, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
To quote Taggart (expertly played by Slim Pickens) from Blazing Saddles:
“What in the wide world of sports is going on here?”
Two in? Sacks loaded? One out? Winning run on second? Huh?
By LuisG
August 26, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
Ok, I think we are all ready to see the Braves WIN by one run, so let’s go BRAVES!!
By jerry
August 26, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Can the Braves hit a sac fly??? Let’s win a one run game, albeit at home, and let’s come from behind after 8 innings to win.
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
US:
Thanks. Glad is was ‘08’s and not next year’s. A #5 should net a great player if the scouts still know how to pickum’, and the club can convince a potential major talent that the BRAVES are the place to go for the future. LIBERTY, $$$$ please.
By Couch Tater
August 26, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Can you believe it? Yunel!
By cabravesfan
August 26, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
wow…that was fun!
By Mike
August 26, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
Where was this type of play all year???
By Urban Shocker
August 26, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
Yunel, difference maker returns from the twilight zone. Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! a 1 run, come from behind game.
By LuisG
August 26, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Tie game!
By jerry
August 26, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Braves Win! Braves Win! Braves Win!
By BT
August 26, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Looks like they still have some n I mean guts left.
By crimedogrules
August 26, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
Did we win? Wow, this feeling —- what is it — I think I’m happy, wait happy oh yeah thats right I like baseball!!!
Way to go Yunnie!!
By LuisG
August 26, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
I mean….. BRAVES WIN! BRAVES WIN!
By Steve from OH
August 26, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
And the fan is going wild…..
By Greg in TN
August 26, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
Great baserunning by KJ to take second on the bloop single down the line. It’s Interesting that Kotsay pinch hit there in the 9th, maybe the Braves and Red Sox can’t get together on the prospect at this point?
Braves catch a huge break when Hanley Ramirez doesn’t get the ball out of his glove.
Then a nice base hit by Yunel for the game winner.
Nice night at the ballpark for Planet Braves.
By Mr. Optimistic
August 26, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
wow well braves can smile tonight did some really good things!!!!!!!!!!
By Chop Chop
August 26, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Win, win, win.
(In all honesty, I don’t really care that much. The Marlins have already dug their own grave by playing so poorly after the break. This game just shovels a little more dirt on ‘em.)
richbrave,
My 7:21 post was me being extremely sarcastic.
I don’t agree with me in that post, dude. Sorry about that.
The Braves could use a couple of Mark Teixeiras. You know, guys who can hit 30+ HRs and drive in over 100 runs consistently. The record would be a lot better this year if the team had more players like that.
By Murphy
August 26, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Most exciting game in months!!
By Jeff321
August 26, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Escobar is a stud.
Wow, sure haven’t seen any celebrating like that from the Braves in a while, eh?
By Jake
August 26, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
We needed that one.
By crimedogrules
August 26, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH wins best post-game comment… The fan is going wild… classic DOBBLog
By Lilly Von Schtoop
August 26, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Stinger
It’s twue! It’s twue!
By Renegator
August 26, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
So does this mean Kotsay is getting traded or not?
By richbrave
August 26, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
CC:
Well,then I disagree with you take. Sorry. I’ll take clutch over numbers anytime. And he wasn’t.
By Couch Tater
August 26, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH Funny@10:58!
By Brian
August 26, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is either trying protect JJ’s self esteem by saying he’s not worn down or he has really lost his mind. It’s OK to get worn down, isn’t it? I just think he doesn’t care for reporters and won’t tell him how he really feels. Oh well, we won!! Hope Muts lose, that’d top the night off. Shocked to see Kotsay, gonna miss em’.
By Dr. Dolittle
August 26, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this
A big thank you to Hanley Ramirez for the choke job. Plus, why was Dan Ugla scurrying to cover second base on the game winning hit? That was a meaningless run. Ugla may be the dumbest player in the majors and he added to his reputation there.
By Mac
August 26, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
Yahoo guy says Kotsay traded for pitcher.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-kotsay082508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By N8
August 26, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
DOB
Forgot to ask you a few weeks back. What did you think of the Rescue Me “mini-sode” with the baseball stories in the newspaper, and then the fire bell rings, and they spill the coffee on the paper, and it was the 9-11 newspaper?
The mini-sodes are kinda growing on me.
Just sitting at work listening to Denis Leary’s “No Cure for Cancer” CD and reminded myself of it. Forgot how frickin’ crude that stand up was. Lots of moans and groans from the crowd. I LOVE IT! The mans sarcasm and intensity is unmatched, IMO.
By crimedogrules
August 26, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
I agree with Ricbrave the question is always Jeter or ARod. 30 teams would take the former without any doubt… Jeter is clutch, ARod is numbers
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Wow. Where has that been all season?
Make it 2-63 when trailing after eight.
By David O'Brien
August 26, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Kotsay said it was weirdest night of his career. Called into Bobby’s office before game, told he was being scratched because they didn’t want to risk injury because they were talking to a team about a trade.
Part of ESPN story was incorrect: They were NOT talking to Kotsay about waiting the teams on his limited no-trade clause, etc. He said he doesn’t even know if he still has such a clause, that he’d have to talk to his agent to find out, but that Red Sox had not spoken with him about anything. He wasn’t even sure it’s Sox (but it is).
We’re not gonna get an announcement tonight, I don’t think. But it’ll get done in morning, I’m fairly certain.
By Couch Tater
August 27, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Pujols- 0 fer 3 .356
By StingerSplash
August 27, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Lili Von Schtupp,
Lili Lili Lili Lili legs Lili Lili Lili legs ….
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
N8, that was the best of the mini-sodes. I want the real thing, though.
Hey, if you like Leary’s standup, try Patton Oswalt. And I’m sure you’ve heard Louis CK, right? And David Cross?
Those guys, plus Dave Attell, and of course Chris Rock when he does standup, are all freakin’ hilarious.
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
DOB, Amazing YOU did it again!
You have this mystery of being so correct on your titles!
Your titles and the Braves playing have “FIT” what you have been saying!
Please go ahead and call it a title year next year!
I love you DOB!!
Infante and Prado. Recurring theme lately. Prado’s a better hitter than I ever thought he’d be DOB
But you have called him a stud-hitting machine and his past track record shows his current success is no fluke. Playing Prado is only a good thing especially trying to improve his weakness (defense)…(improving)
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
Dr. Dolittle: So true about Uggla. Just not thinking, at all. Probably went on instinct, but that was a totally boneheaded play, going to cover second. I asked Yunel if he saw that and was trying to shoot it through the right side where Uggla should have been, and he said, yes, he saw it and was doing precisely that.
By cabravesfan
August 27, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
and i thought our pitching was bad…Mets pen blew a 7 run lead tonight
By uga-brave
August 27, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
chris coste, braves killer, goes 4-4 and beats mets in 13.
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Denis Leary’s stand up is fantastic…but the truth is that he owes almost everything- his subject matter, his demeanor- to the late, great Bill Hicks.
If you haven’t listened to Hicks’s “Arizona Bay”, do it. Now.
Talk about crude…
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
too bad there was like 559 people on hand to watch the best come back of the year! So this is how it feels crushing someone’s heart and winning by one-run.we have been on the other side too much this year..I miss it.
This should bring some positive vibes in clubhouse and maybe more with the kids comming up
2N9 indeed! Go braves!
By BA
August 27, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Chip had a nice game-ending call tonight.
I genuinely hate to see Kotsay go, kind of hoped he was on the Ohman plan- keep him for next year. I know there are about six farmhands that can take over in center. But there’s nothing like a good veteran. You know what you’re going to get from a guy like Kotsay, when he’s healthy.
DOB, Schafer or Anderson? Anderson or Schafer? Just getting you warmed up.
Maybe Boston gave in and put Lester in the package. Or Youkilis. Rebuilding stinks.
John Prine is great. The definition of underrated.
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
Scratch my earlier comment…
After going back and watching some Bill Hicks on youtube.com, it’s apparent that Denis Leary is nothing but a Bill Hicks rip off.
By Brian
August 27, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
Anders- where are ya buddy? Muts won’t go far without a bullpen. I told you son!!! Gotta rub it in a little.
By gotigers72
August 27, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this
Love the Blazin’ Saddles references.
“Hey Taggert, how ‘bout some more beans?”
“I think you boys have had enough!”
More memorable lines in that movie than any except maybe “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”.
“Rules? In a knife fight?” “Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?”
By the way, best stand up EVER. Richard Pryor. Rent the three stand up MOVIES he made in the 70s. Who else was good enough to make stand up for movie theaters? Eddie Murphy made a couple and maybe a few other comedians tried, but none could touch Pryor’s. Eddie tried to copy Pryor by seeing how much he could curse, but Pryor’s profanity was useful within the venue it was used. Murphy was just cussin’ to be cussin’.
Current stand up champion is Chris Rock., followed closely by Dennis Miller.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
Jake the Snake, no doubt. I’ve got three or fours Hicks CDs and a couple DVD. He was 20 years ahead of his time, a huge influence on all these young, politically incorrect, brutally honest young comedians. None better than him, in my book.
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this
This will make you hate Denis Leary forever.
btw- Skip Caray T-Shirts are on order. Should be ready by the next homestand.
By BA
August 27, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
Don’t sell Leary short, he was a Pendleton or a Wohlers- a guy that enjoyed a great run for a few years during his otherwise workman-like career.
Lewis Black? Think Galarraga.
By Brian
August 27, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
How about who’s not funny- Jack Black leads the pack in my opinion.
By N8
August 27, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
DOB
Agreed on the mini-sodes. Can’t wait for the season to actually start. In fact I was just telling my wife the other night, that I would have rather they made one or two full episodes over the summer, and teased us with those, rather than the 5 minute (actually about 3 minutes other than the credits), clips.
Thank for the stand up references to check out. My comedy CD’s are what get me through this time of the year, when I’m putting 10-14 ours of work in at the office.
That’s the only “silver lining” in this Braves season (and the up-coming LOOOONG season my Chiefs are gonna put me through), is that I’m not up to my eyes in work, and have to also be consumed with the playoff run and the beginning of the NFL season.
Agreed with the statements of Richard Pryor being one of the (if not THE) best ever, and Chris Rock being the best out there today. I also like Lewis Black, but I tend to not be bothered by his “politics”, like some of my buddies.
My favorite Chris Rock quote on his stand-up stuff, is his reference to single mothers saying that they can raise a child without a man around, when he says. (paraphrasing):
Sure you can do it. That doesn’t make it a good F’n IDEA! You can drive a car with your feet, but that doesn’t mean it’s to be done!
Blazing Saddles, is also a classic that would NEVER fly if it were made today. WAAAAY to “politically incorrect”.
As for Chris Coste being Mets killer. Gotta give props to one of two of my home-state boys in MLB. Darin “Every Braves fan hates my guts” Erstad being the other.
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
Top 3 (for me)
1) Bill HIcks 2) George Carlin 3) Mitch Hedberg
RIP, all three.
Bottom 3
1) Dane Cook 2) Carrot Top 3) Martin Lawrence
I really enjoyed Denis Leary when I was a kid (12 or 13). I started listening to Bill Hicks a few years later, even though his stuff predated Leary’s…I always associated the two for being similar, but when you hear the jokes side by side, you see how obvious it is that Leary ripped off Hicks.
It’s almost infuriating.
By Robert S
August 27, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this
“How about who’s not funny- Jack Black leads the pack in my opinion.”
Totally with you there, Brian. He joins the likes of Steve Martin and Martin Short among the terminally un-funny.
And N8, I’m with you on your choice of best and funniest - Richard Pryor could talk about anything (no matter how inane) and still make you laugh. That’s genius.
By N8
August 27, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this
Jake the Snake
Interesting clips on youtube with the Hicks vs. Leary debate.
Doesn’t make me hate Leary though. While the material appears to blatantly ripped off, Leary’s delivery of his (or others) material is what I enjoy. I know. Big shock. I enjoy comedians with a little anger and intensity in their performance.
But it certainly takes some of the “originality” off of his resume, doesn’t it?
By Braint
August 27, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this
“Rescue Me” is one of the best written shows on TV. Had the opportunity to work with Steven Pasquale (Seann Garrity) on a film in Toronto a fews years ago called “Aurora Borealis.” He had just gotten the pilot of “Rescue Me” and took it just for the chance to work with Denis Leary. He was extremely funny and very smart. Always complained about the price of breakfast at The Hotel we were staying at.
If you have a chance DOB, check out another show Leary and Peter Tolan created called “The Job.” And to all of you who haven’t had the chance — netflix one of Leary’s first movies, “The Ref.”
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
DAP I am not sure how I caught your question earlier today, but YES, I would offer the Dodgers any of our two middle infielders for Matt Kemp. In a heartbeat!
Thanks to Mark Kotsay for a classy year.
Let’s see Anderson, Schafer, Lilly, Hanson and Medlen. I know all the options reasons for not bringing a couple of those guys up, but hey, we need to see what they have.
“Somebody go back and get a sh!t full of dimes!” and “Where’s the white women!” (after his hood is removed. (Blazing Saddles)
Great movie!
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this
“To tell a family secret, my grand mama was dutch.”
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
I was reading where somebody said Schafer was on the 40 man roster (was that you DOB?). Unless the Braves website is wrong, he is not on the 40 man.
Mark Bowman seems to agree with me that Escobar and or KJ could be trading chips. I caught some crap over my comments, but I stand by them. To get something good, we must give up something good.
Problem with trading some of our guys this winter, is they have dropped some during the season: Escobar, KJ, Frenchy, Lilly, BJones, James, Soriano, and probably one or two more.
By Hunting like Cheney
August 27, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
The Red Sox have been looking for improved offense in their outfield, a pursuit that gained some urgency Tuesday after outfielder J.D. Drew went on the disabled list with a lower back strain
And they’re gonna get a guy from the worst offensive outfield in the majors?
Right on.
By fsubravesfan10
August 27, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this
so, it’s 2am, I’m bored, and I don’t want to go to class tommorrow, anyways was reading up on mlb and espn.com when I caught this little snippet…
“Richmond swept the IL Player of the Week Awards this week: catcher Corky Miller was named the offensive player of the week after hitting .556 with three homers”
Honestly, what the he77…To be honest if my name was Corky Miller I would do 2 things….
1) Change my name from Corky to anything else
2) Only sign minor league contracts and make 300k playing in triple A for anyone who wants me to mentor or whatever it is he’s doing there.
Obviously he has trouble hitting against big boys so why not pull a crash davis and just focus on his minor league stats…
total sarcastic post, well most of it, so don’t chew me out or say well he only had limited ab’s or whatever…but seriously 3 homeruns in a week? When he was in atlanta I didnt think he could hit anyone, though he did strike me as a potential professional softball player in the making.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
Steve From OH
The fan is going crazy
Funny Stuff!
What a great night!
By SeattleBravesFan
August 27, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this
My understanding from hearing other comics talk is that Dave Attell is widely considered the greatest club comic around. That he can take an audience at a club and whip them in a frenzy, walls shaking type laughter. I love his stuff. His CD “Skanks for the Memories” is f-ing hilarious.
Leary’s delivery is what made his No Cure… CD so good. But his jokes and general style are a ripoff of Hicks.
Hick is the king, way ahead of his time. So brilliant.
Music factoid: Bill Hicks is depicted in an artists rendering in Tool’s AEnima inlay booklet.
Agreed DOB, Louis CK, Rock, Oswalt, great as well. Hedberg was one of a kind.
N8, check out Mitch Fatel’s “Super Retardo” if you need a new comedy cd. Pretty funny stuff.
By SeattleBravesFan
August 27, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this
to futher the BILL HICKS and DENIS LEARY debate…here is a link to Bill HIck’s Wikipedia page. halfway down there is a passage about the controversy. I hadn’t read this stuff before. I for some reason thought Leary came after Hicks passed away. I hadn’t realized Hicks had actually heard No Cure… before dying.
Anyways…interesting to further the comedy talk…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hicks
By Moby Grape
August 27, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this
Yeah, remember when those knuckleheads doubted Nick Green? Nick Green sure showed them, hitting .307 with a .389 OBP and a .421 SLG in the first 135 plate appearances of the 2004 season. Lil’ Nicky Green has never looked back. Never looked back. Ain’t no knuckleheads doubting whether lil’ Nicky Green belongs in the show anymore.Crimson
Hell of a difference between Green’s minor league numbers and Prados. Pretty silly comparison there dude
By Ronald Millsaps
August 27, 2008 5:32 AM | Link to this
“DAP”—Rafael Furcal has been a game-changer his entire career and has been healthy most of his career. As for Escobar, we could move him to second (and Kelly Johnson to center).
My goal was not to have Adam Dunn play the outfield but instead first base. You can expect the already-high batting averages on this team to increase by about ten points if one of these transactions occur, let alone both.
As for Mark Bowman’s alleged comments about trading Johnson or Escobar, I wouldn’t put much stock in what he endorses. He’s not a bad writer, but he also seems to take some shallow perspectives on things instead of close examinations.
By the way, why don’t you learn how to spell my name? Even if it were hard to spell, you’ve got the correct spelling right in front of you. You’re 0-2 so far, buddy. It’s annoying. Why is my name apparently so hard for people to get right? Why don’t you pay attention? Why don’t the ignorant five or six million people who have pronounced and/or written “Ronald” “Ronnie” pay attention? Why do people see two “l”s but only spell one and leave off the “s” at the end of my last name? Again, why don’t people just blamed pay attention?
By ncscoots
August 27, 2008 6:12 AM | Link to this
Another “gutless”, “no heart”, “mailing it in” performance, I see. And it still came down to a Ramirez hesitation and an Uggla brain-lock. But, really, there’s no luck involved in one-run games. At all. None.
I think my new wish for Christmas will be that bloggers come to the realization that the the game looks a little different viewed from the dugout than it does from a La-Z-Boy.
Nah. Santa may have a bag of goodies, but he ain’t no miracle worker.
By chipdip
August 27, 2008 6:52 AM | Link to this
BILL HICKS IS A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By chipdip
August 27, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
Rant in e-minor is the s—t!!
By JM
August 27, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this
Why does Francoeur thinks he has to make a comment after every game. He is one of the worst players on the team and no one wants to hear what he has to say. Somebody please tell him to turn off his phone.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 27, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this
Missed the greatest comeback ever! Darn the luck!
ncscoots 6:12 am
Right on the money, bro!
By nolie
August 27, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
According to MLB.com’s Jim Molony, the Atlanta Braves have been so impressed with Martin Prado this season that they will likely trade second baseman Kelly Johnson in the winter in order to give Prado a shot at the everyday job.
By Moby Grape
August 27, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
no “negative effect” to calling up Schafer, since he’s already on the 40-man and has already used an option this year being sent down the first time.DOB
OK I’m confused. Sent down when this year? When was he up to be sent down?
By Rico Carty
August 27, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
This team is about three years away from being good enough to contend. That is, if Wren and co. go into rebuilding mode. Getting one big bat or one ace pitcher isn’t going to accomplish much. There are just too many problems with this team that are going to take some time to fix.
For one thing, the pitching is a mess (to state the obvious). JJ has turned out to be an ace to build around. It would be nice if Reyes and Morton developed into strong rotation cogs, but it’s unlikely that both will work out. Think about the Braves in the late ‘80’s. They had a ton of highly rated pitching prospects whom they threw out there. Smoltz, Stanton, Glavine, Mercker, and Avery stuck. There were at least ten others who didn’t. Right now, the organization doesn’t have that many good prospects. Hopefully, Wren can pull off another Renteria-like trade or two. We need three guys to make it, and we can add two veterans to round out the rotation. This will take several years.
The fundamentals of this team are an embarrassment. The failure to lay down a bunt, move runners over, run the bases intelligently, hit the cutoff man (Frenchy!), work the count — this is why you lose so many one run games. This is a problem the whole organization needs to look at. Why are the players coming up not properly trained? This needs fixing.
I have been a big Bobby Cox fan, and it’s irritating to see people bash him on this blog. It seems like there are a lot of immature people on this blog who have high opinions of themselves. Having lived through the ‘70’s and ‘80’s, I’m grateful for what he has done for the team. But he’s not the type of manager we need right now. We need a taskmaster who can get the team through this transitional period. Someone who can be unpleasant to be around if you can’t lay down a bunt. Another Russ Nixon, perhaps.
Anyway, this is going to be a difficult period for the team. The sooner management realizes it’s in rebuilding mode, the sooner we can get back to contending.
Of course, any plan will involve dealing with the Francouer problem. He has two names in my household. G##d&n Francouer and G##d&n F$@#%^ing Francouer. Getting rid of this loser would be a good first step.
By JerryJeff
August 27, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
He will end up in the A.L. D’Hing before he takes another hometown discount…Metro
No he won’t. He hates it when he DHes.
By Dadgum
August 27, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Prado is the real deal and I have been mentioning that for quite awhile. He was the best option for 2nd base even before the year began. Not bashing Johnson or saying that reflecting on Johnson’s sub-par year to date. Just the way it is.
The Braves are playing Prado in a utility role right now but I gotta believe he has the everyday 2nd base job going forward next year.
By brent a.
August 27, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
no “negative effect” to calling up Schafer, since he’s already on the 40-man and has already used an option this year being sent down the first time.DOB
OK I’m confused. Sent down when this year? When was he up to be sent down? Moby
I think it has to do with him being on the 40-man roster coming out of Spring Training, but not making the Major League club. That’s the same as “sending him down” one time.
By Anders
August 27, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Brian
Anders- where are ya buddy? Muts won’t go far without a bullpen. I told you son!!! Gotta rub it in a little.
Fair enough on rubbing it in, but last night was not on the bullpen. Pedro giving 5 runs back and the offense not tacking on one run after the 4th was the killer. The bullpen only gave up two runs in 8 innings against a tough offense in a joke of a park. Ayala giving up the tying run in the bottom of the 9th was tough but he’s not the closer so what are you gonna do? Tough loss for sure but let’s see if Johan can respond tonight. His penchant for gopher balls and pitching in that ban box is worrisome for sure. But he’s been lights out of late. If the Mets win tonight, all is forgotten and they move on to Florida.
Hey, it could be worse.. I think you know what I mean.
By NCBravesFan
August 27, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Anders - The Collapse called … they want their team back. :)
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Just saw this:
Rafael Furcal has been a game-changer his entire career and has been healthy most of his career.
Let’s see, Furcal is a leadoff hitter and has never finished in the top 10 in his league in OBP. His career slugging percentage is .412. He’s missed significant time with injuries both this season and last. He’s a good player but nothing more.
By Billy
August 27, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Schafer has never been on the 40 man roster, ever. Schafer’s contract has never been purchased by Atlanta. It is probably a case mistaken identity, a typo.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Braint, I didn’t think anyone but me and my ex-wife ever watched The Job, judging by the ratings that show got. I loved it. There was nothing like it on TV at that time.
Also, The Ref is hilarious.
By Big Easy
August 27, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
I still don’t get all the talk calling Francoeur a “loser.” Who p** in y’alls Cheerios, seriously? The kid works hard, OK. Are you guys upset that he’s in the majors and you are not? Because that is what it comes off as. Give it up! The guy has had a golden existence, the Midas Touch. He was Mr. Parkview, leading them to consecutive 5A football state titles, and a baseball state title. He never struggled, until this year. I mean, the way y’all talk, none of you guys ever struggle at anything. Ever.
How many of you have kids? Ever been around a young kid (like a toddler)? Ever see them get so frustrated because they want to do something, but can’t figure it out? Example: I have a 17 month old son. He babbles, but doesn’t know a lot of words, and isn’t really talking yet. He gets so frustrated because he wants to tell us what he wants, but he doesn’t know how. Or, he will be playing with one of his toys, and will have trouble working it. He wants to play with it, but gets frustrated quickly because he can’t do it.
Francoeur is much the same way this year. Guys, I would bet dollars to pesos that he is more frustrated about his slump than y’all are. He has always had the gift, and now he is coming back down to the land of mortals. He is doing everything he knows to do to break out of it, but is still struggling.
Recently, he has shown that he looks to be slowly breaking out of it. He had 2 hits again last night. So chill with the “Cut that loser Frenchy” crap. Seriously. It is old, and it is pointless.
These aren’t the droids you’re looking for. Move along.
~E~
By Anders
August 27, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
NC Braves fan
Anders - The Collapse called … they want their team back. :)
Not bad.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Moby, my mistake on Schafer being otioned. For some reason I forgot he was a non-roster invitee (with all the discussion and moves involving him in the past year, just forgot he was still not on 40-man).
Anyway, he has to be added to it this winter (this is his fourth year in pro ball). So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Braves go ahead and do it now to get a look at him rest of season, then in winter ball in Mexico, to make a determination on whether he’s ready to take over next year.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Oh, and just to clarify, Moby: Once a guy’s on 40-man, he uses an option when he’s sent to minors during spring training. So he never has to actually play in the majors to use options, if he’s sent out during spring training and never called up during season. Still uses an option.
By McFann ;Ô;
August 27, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
DA BRAVES!!
Was that a win, or was that a WIN?
Great moral booster, don’t ya think? So glad they didn’t just lay down and “die” after their “best hitters” killed the bases loaded rally in the eighth!
By BL
August 27, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Hey Mets organization, glad to see you are starting to pick up where you left off last year. Great game last night!
Awwwwwwwww…what’s wrong??? Have injuries depleted your pitching/bullpen? Welcome to the club bi@^&es!!
By McFann ;Ô;
August 27, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! What the—?
Those freakin’ Cubs! Dagnabit!! 14-9???
Half those RBI go to……2 doubles…a homer……AAAA!!
Dangit! Dang dang DANGIT!
78 RBI?? 20 homers?? 31 doubles?? Fiddlesticks!
}: (
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Don’t look now but Frenchy very well could end up leading our team in RBI’s… He seems to always come up with runners on. He’s only 5 RBI’s behind Chipper right now.
By JerryJeff
August 27, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
You got to have more free agent acquisitions other then Juan Cruz…. or they’ll be a mutiny on this board
Oh yeah, I’m sure they are really worried about what this board thinks
By Rico Carty
August 27, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Francouer’s struggles didn’t start this year. He was substandard at the plate in ‘06 and ‘07 before becoming wretched in ‘08. He hasn’t developed. Having a massive sense of entitlement surely hasn’t helped. You don’t win with guys who can’t learn and mouth off when they don’t get their way.
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Option Question: If Schafer were added to the 40 man on September 1st, brought up to Atlanta for September, but doesn’t make the team out of the spring, then they only use ONE option on him next spring? Sounds like that is the way it works. Option is used when a player is on the 40 man roster, but not added to the 25 man out of the spring. (or even in May, for that matter)
I know if a player is brought up and down 2-3 times in one season, only one option is used: Lillibridge is an example.
How many total options or years does one player get? Is it 3 or 4?
Inquiring minds…..
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
JerryJeff
Well I hope for their sakes they are worried about what the fan base thinks. I mean it is only our money that buys the tickets that pays the bills. If they show they aren’t committed to winning or atleast putting a competent product on the field then Turner Field will rival the Marlins attendance figures next season.
By DAP
August 27, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
ronald millsaps As for Escobar, we could move him to second (and Kelly Johnson to center).
furcal has a bad back. they tend to reoccur. he will also be over paid. we dont need to spend on a shortstop. its unnecessary. i think escobar’s defensive talent would be wasted at 2nd, and kelly cannot play center. he never has, and i dont think he has the skills. hes not a nutural outfielder anyways, and he doesnt have tons of speed. adam dunn playing 1st is not a terrible idea. i hadnt thought of that, and i assume we would trade kotchman in that senerio…or maybe you would perfer moving him to left field, so we would have infielders in left and center!
by the way, the rant about people spelling your name wrong…get over yourself. nobody but you cares how your name is spelled, and nobody will. how do you know we were even talking to you if your name was mispelled, ronnie?
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
With all the teams that are in need of a starter going down the stretch, has Mike Hampton cleared waivers?
Has Mike pitched enough to warrant any interest from any of the contendors?
(we could trade him to the Muts!) How ironic would that be if we did, and he excelled!
By McFann ;Ô;
August 27, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Goodoleboy58 He seems to always come up with runners on.
So does someone else—who will remain nameless—but he hasn’t gotten an RBI in a week.
Question Will there be a Brave with 90+ RBI this year?
By JC from UT
August 27, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Would the Braves offer Hampton a incentive packaged contract for next season?
By BL
August 27, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Rico Carty
Francouer’s struggles didn’t start this year. He was substandard at the plate in ‘06 and ‘07 before becoming wretched in ‘08.
Your post is substandard.
Jeff Francoeur in ‘06 & ‘07 How you go for over 100 RBIs both years, 29 and 19 HRs respectively, 2nd and 1st on the team in RBIs those 2 years, ALL WHILE YOU ARE UNDER 25 YRS OLD?
I don’t want to ever see you post again if you honestly believe that is “substandard.” (And we excluded defense…towards the top in assists and won a Gold Glove??)
By nolie
August 27, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Do you have any thoughts about what we might expect back from the Red Sox in terms of what level of prospect they’ll sendGreg
I’m guessing one lower-mid level player, perhaps a pitcher. We aren’t gonna break the bank by any means
By john10
August 27, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
DOB
MLB changed the rule V guidelines a few seasons ago. Players who were 18 and younger when signed, like Schafer, don’t have to be added to the 40 man until their fifth pro season. Those players 19 and older have to be added after their fourth season. This means that the 2004 high school draft class is up for protection this winter..
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Shouldn’t the fact that Francoeur has almost as many RBI as Chipper tell us how context-dependent RBI are? And shouldn’t it tell us how meaningless RBI are when determining value of an individual hitter?
The most common batting orders for the Braves this season had Francoeur hitting behind Chipper, Teixeira and McCann. Escobar has hit in front of those guys.
The Braves as a team have the third-best OBP in the league. Francoeur has the most at-bats on the team.
By nolie
August 27, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Prado’s a better hitter than I ever thought he’d be.DOB
Toldja last winter…course he ain’t gonna keep hitting this well forever ;-)
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Wayne, yes, it’d only be one option used if they sent him down next season, regardless of how many times he went down and came up within a season. One option per season is all that’s used.
As for options, it’s three. They get three. But there’s an exception: If a player has less than five years of professional experience and has used all three options, he can be sent down to minors a fourth season without being exposed to waivers. But that’s unusual, that a player would have exhausted all three options in less than five years of pro experience.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
john10, OK, now we’re getting a bit esoteric here. Need Frank Wren or his assistant to monitor this discussion.
Yes, you’re right: Schafer was 18 when he was drafted and signed.
Listen, bottom line in Schafer: Whether he’s on 40-man or not isn’t going to way into his decision, because if he’s ready, Braves are going to make him their CF. If he’s not, they’re not. The 40-man, in this particular case and not many others, doesn’t really matter. Because they have to fill the spot, and if he’s ready they’ll fill it with him and focus on filling other needs with available funds.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Will there be a Brave with 90+ RBI this year?
It’s doubtful. Not enough plate appearances from any one hitter in the middle of the order.
Braves’ cleanup hitters have driven in 97 runs this year (8th-most in MLB), thanks in large part to the team’s on-base ability. But they’ve had six different cleanup hitters.
By Lee in S GA
August 27, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
How about who’s not funny- Jack Black leads the pack in my opinion.
Brain
Regarding you post last night Dane Cook is the winner hands down. Watching this guy in stand-up is about as painful as … well watching the Braves play this season.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Rico Carty, Francoeur was “substandard” in 2007?
Classic case of someone getting carried away and completely overstating the case to make a point. Francoeur’s been terrible this year. But please explain to me, how is .293 with 40 doubles, 19 homers and 105 RBI as a 23-year-old in his second full season in the majors “substandard?” Not to mention a Gold Glove. That was Francoeur in 2007.
Please explain how that season was substandard.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
BL, terrible hitters can drive in 100 runs if they are constantly hitting with runners on base.
Kind of like basketball, if a player is perfect from the field he may score fewer points than someone who takes a lot more shots but is a horrible shooter.
By DAP
August 27, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
joe simpson has been a big critic of jeff francouer, but he made a good point about him last night.
he was comparing jeremy hermida to jeff francouer. they are the same age from the same place, and play the same position. hermida is having better year than jeff this year (which isnt hard), and it sounded like simpson was responding to a question of who would you rather have, jeff or hermida.
simpson pointed out that hermida’s career high RBI was last year when he knocked in 63. he went onto say that this was a terrible year for jeff, but he still had 59 rbis, and had surpassed 100 twice. bascially he was saying that jeff in his worst year is still better than the best hermida has had. i thought it was a good point.
jeff has had more at bats in previous years, so that is part of it, but maybe he has gotten more opportunity because he is a better player…i think it was interesting.
By Lew
August 27, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Big Easy-Good post, Dude. I’ve been saying the same thing-not that anyone either listens or believes it if they do.
McFann-Fiddlesticks? I’m appalled Young Lady. Such language!!
By Brian
August 27, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Anders- You know I’ve gotta respond. We are bad this year, but I’d hate to see how your team and management would have responded to all the injuries we’ve dealt with. Don’t say “what about Pedro” cause he’s not that good anymore when healthy. We’ll be back !! Oops, hope I didn’t write that twice
By Rico Carty
August 27, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
BL: As Shaun states, RBI is not a good indicator of value. If there was a stat that showed RBI/RISP, that might be useful. But in lieu of that, OPS works fine. Francouer’s OPS is terrible this year. Substandard would be a charitable way of describing his ‘06 and ‘07 OPS’s.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Classic case of someone getting carried away and completely overstating the case to make a point. Rico, Francoeur’s been terrible this year. But please explain to me, how is .293 with 40 doubles, 19 homers and 105 RBI as a 23-year-old in his second full season in the majors “substandard?” Not to mention a Gold Glove. That was Francoeur in 2007.
He was substandard for a major league rightfielder in 2007 because he made outs as often as an average player at any position, including bench players. And his slugging wasn’t overly impressive for a major leaguer. But for a 23-year-old playing in the majors, it was a fine season.
By GermanBravesFan
August 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Hello all…
It’s been a while since I have been on here, but a move to Switzerland and not being able to watch any baseball can do that to you. Hopefully, something good will come out of this season: a complete rebuilding process! While the Braves had hung on over the past three years because they were always still in the hunt until the end, this season has gone quite differently. Of course it hurts to watch the team be this bad, but at least now there will be a serious reason to rebuild.
As DOB pointed out, the Braves will have money to spend and, hopefully, they will spend it wisely. Of all the positions, I guess only third base, catcher, shortstop and first base will be retained (among position players). After that, though, it will be interesting. The way Francoeur played this year, he may have to prove himself in spring training and right away in the beginning of next season. Who will play center field (I guess Kotsay is now with the Red Sox)? And who will play left field? What about second base? Hopefully, there will be plenty of money to sign some really good free agents. As for pitching, it might be similar. Jurrjens and Morton have shown promise. Hudson is gone for the year and nobody knows if Glavine and/or Smoltz will return. Will there be money for a top-level free agent pitcher? or two?
In a way, it gets me excited about the off-season (I never thought I’d say that!).
DOB - I read your comments about the Boss’ show in Saint Louis. I read the reviews on www.backstreets.com and they were great. I envy you for having been there!! I went to the show in Wales this summer and it was pretty good, too.
Keep on rockin’ and keep up the good work, DOB!!
By Steve from OH
August 27, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur, stats:
2006: .260/.293/.449 .742 OPS, 87 OPS+, .244 EqA. This was a substandard season, but it was his first full season as a 22 year old starter, too.
2007: .293/.338/.444 .782 OPS, 103 OPS+, .267 EqA. This was not a substandard season, in the context of the entire major leagues. Factor in the fact that Jeff was 23 at the time, not bad at all. Now, of course, for right fielders this wasn’t as good, but those numbers can’t be classified as “substandard.”
Jeff’s previous two seasons weren’t great, but they were something to build upon. Unfortunately, Jeff hasn’t done that this year, but giving up on a young player after one atrocious season is a bit hasty and shows little foresight by a front office, IMO. If this continues, replacing Jeff becomes an option, but as of right now, it is still reasonable to believe he is capable of returning to or surpassing his previous numbers.
And yes, RBI’s are an incredibly stupid way of determining whether or not someone is good at hitting baseballs.
By Anders
August 27, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Brian
I’d hate to see how your team and management would have responded to all the injuries we’ve dealt with.
The Mets have played almost the whole season without their starting corner outfielders and second baseman. Castro, Schneider, Maine, Pedro, Wagner have all spent considerable time on the DL as well. I don’t have the stats in front of me but I don’t think the man days lost by the Braves was higher than the Mets in early August when the Braves fell out of it.
I think the Mets have done a real good job of patching things together this year. Easely, Tatis, Murphy, Evans, Argenis Reyes etc have all answered the bell.
I still think it will come down to the last week of the season for the Mets and Phils. Both have flaws so who knows?
By SoWeGa Fanatic
August 27, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
**By JM
August 27, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this
Why does Francoeur thinks he has to make a comment after every game. He is one of the worst players on the team and no one wants to hear what he has to say. Somebody please tell him to turn off his phone.**
Because he was asked, Stupid.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I cast my unfunny vote with Dane Cook. Absolutely dreadful. His popularity is a complete mystery to me. Awful. Painfully unfunny.
By Big Easy
August 27, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Lew, I know. I just don’t get the unabashed hatred.
It’s just crazy the bashing Francoeur receives on here. I know most people on here bash him because of his lackluster year, and his comments regarding getting sent down, but seriously, get over it. The guy was frustrated at himself, and the way the situation was handled (and it wasn’t handled well). He has always been outspoken to the media (good game or not), and he let his feelings be known. It is done. Get over it.
The guy is having an atrocious year. We get it. But apart from Chipper, Jurrjens, and McCann, nobody is stellar on the Braves club this year. While Frenchy’s poor play has hurt the club, he is not the sole reason for the Braves being so far out of it. And if you do think he is the sole reason for the poor season, you either don’t watch the games, or have some vendetta against Francoeur.
As a change of subject, I will miss Kotsay. Wasn’t sure about him when we got him, but I really like the way he plays. Good dude.
~E~
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
DAP
Regarding Hermida seems like every time we’ve played the Marlins he’s either batted 2nd or 8th.. I’m not sure if that is where he normally bats but I’m sure he hasn’t had the plethora of RBI chances that Jeff has gotten in the last few years. Just my observation I could be wrong though.
By Billy
August 27, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Those that judge players solely using stats live in an artificial baseball world. The stats usage is fantastic for fantasy baseball use. A players value to his team is more important than where he ranks in comparison to other players.
Francoeur’s value to the Braves was obvious in ‘06 and ‘07. Having lot’s of baserunners is atribute to your team mates getting on base, but the hitter at the plate still needs to drive them in. Francoeur had some nice numbers hitting with RISP. This year not so good.
In ‘06 and ‘07 Francoeur may not have had as much value as other players as a whole based on where he ranked in comparison, but he had value to his team and in game situations. Value to team is a more important stat than where he ranks as a RF’er.
There is just as good a chance he will be a productive hitter next year as there is a chance he struggles again. Based on his age and salary he needs to be given another year.
If the Braves are going to be able to sign high priced pitchers and hitters this off season, they will need low priced productive players also. The Braves need Francoeur to return to being a run producer once again.
By DAP
August 27, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
anders going into this season, everybody was pretty convinced that delgado’s option would not be excersised…has that changed at all?
last year wasnt the worst ever or anything, but he definetly wasnt the big-time guy he used to be, and was very streaky. he has done quite well this year, though. was 2007 just a bad year? how do the mets and thier fans feel about this, and if he is gone, who will play first? are you targeting any free agents?
im very curious about what the mets will do with 1st base next year. i hope you have some insight.
By 22oz
August 27, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
I’m with ya on Dane Cook DOB. I tuned in to his Comedy Central special one time, just to see what all the fuss was about, and i only lasted a few minutes. But the crowd was eating it up! I just didn’t get it. Dane Cook, not funny.
But what do i know, i loved Norm McDonald on Weekend Update.
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Big Easy
You have to admit for about a 3 month stretch Francoeur was absolutely dreadful to watch in the field and at the plate. When people are clamoring for Greg Norton to get the start in Right Field you know you are having worse then a “lackluster year”.
By Greg in TN
August 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Morning folks…
A nice win last night against the fillets and I see where the mets are being the mets in the not so friendly confines of Citizens Bank Wiffleball Park.
The Fins looked like a tired, frustrated bunch in the late innings last night. This looks to be our version of the Wickman-Dolphin Stadium meltdown last year down to the number of folks in the stands at the end. The weather kept many away from the House That Hank Built last night, and while I expected a drop off in attendance once it was clear that 2008 wasn’t in the cards, it hasn’t dropped off as much as I thought it would have.
McFann: BMac has the only shot at 90 RBIs and while he has a shot at it, he’s going to need to pick it up with runners on base. He hasn’t knocked any in since the last game of the mets series, but he seems to get them in bunches this year, so maybe he gets some more chances and cashes in between now and the end of the year.
nolie: I read where Kotsay will likely bring back a mid-level prospect from Boston. That sounds about right to me in terms of what we can expect from a waiver-wire deal.
By Jim
August 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Fox Sports reports that Kotsay traded to Red Sox for “as yet unidentified … mid-level prospect.” Kotsay gets $325K as “reassignment bonus.” Good or bad all depends on who prospect is. Braves should bring up Anderson right away to answer question of whether he or Blanco is stronget player. Anderson’s minor league numbers and his base stealing ability suggest that he may be the stronger of the two. Schaeffer should be brought up, too, after his season ends, but with him the question seems to be different: is he ready? If you believe it “wait ‘til next year” trade and these moves would be positive steps.
By Jake C.
August 27, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, I disagree on the Francoeur substandard 2007 season. Jeff had a 103 OPS+ which is quite terrible for a RF. He was just above league average and this rating includes middle infielders and catchers. He was a below average outfielder I do agree on your Dane Cook ascertion, however. He is beyond terrible. He probably ha
By 22oz
August 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Oh, and the new line of parody “movies”: Date Movie, Epic Movie, Superhero Movie, Meet the Spartans, and Disaster Movie looks to be just as bad. I’ve only seen the first 2 i mentioned, and i only saw the first Scary Movie, and i wasted an 1:30 of my life on the first 2 i mentioned, and learned my lesson, and haven’t seen the rest. I just feel sorry for Leslie Nielson for being in them. Airplane, the Naked Gun movies, and the Hot Shots movies were funny. This new line is just terrible. Unfortunately, somebody’s watching them, because they keep making them.
By Graham
August 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
According to Braves.com:
“…catcher Corky Miller was named the offensive player of the week after hitting .556 with three homers…”
Who would have thought that was possible?
By DAP
August 27, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
jake c Jeff had a 103 OPS+ which is quite terrible for a RF.
isnt that OPS+ number compared to other rightfielders, with 100 being average? so 103 wouldnt be bad for a rightfielder, it would actually be above average, right? i could be understanding the OPS+ stat incorrectly.
By Dick Vitale
August 27, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
terrible hitters can drive in 100 runs if they are constantly hitting with runners on base. Kind of like basketball, if a player is perfect from the field he may score fewer points than someone who takes a lot more shots but is a horrible shooter.
The problem with this example is that Francoeur, while just an average hitter, was really good w/RISP the past few years like a basketball player who can’t take a man to the hole with the dribble or with a post up move but who can stand out there and nail threes and free throws.
He was a junk points scorer who was too reliant in scoring his points off of fast breaks, put backs on rebounds, pick and roll gimmicks or off of the dribble penetration of a good point guard to suck his man away into a double team or upon a good big man in the post sucking his man down and low into a double team and thereby leaving him wide open on the perimeter or as he sprints uncontested through the back door into the key for the dunk.
Whether it be injury, messed up mechanics, a messed up head and ego or teams simply adjusting and committing to having a man blanket Frenchy at all times, Francoeur is no longer getting his shot off as well as he has in the past, is not hitting his shots when he gets his shots off and is therefore not scoring the hustle junk points he scored in the past.
Francoeur’s got no handle going to his right, tends to lose his dribble going that way and can’t get off his shot. So what you do with this Francoeur is get up on his left leg like a dog in heat and shove his left hip with your forearm and make him go to his right. He’ll turn it over or miss the shot every darn time. Every darn time.
7 weeks until Midnight Madness and the diaper dandies, baby!
By Anders
August 27, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
DAP
Short of an injury Delgado is coming back to the Mets next year. It’s a $12 mil option with a $4 mil buyout so for the Mets it’s a $ 8 mil question which is a slam dunk based on how’s he’s played this year. Nobody and I mean nobody saw this coming. He was a dead man walking in May. He may return there next year but I think the Mets will have to take that chance and look to improve elsewhere this off season. He really turned it on after Randolph was fired who it was reported Delgado did not like at all. I would really like to know what that was all about? If there was a come back player of the year in season, Delgado would win it hands down.
Plus Mets mgt likes this kid Evans as their future first baseman. Everyone keeps saying he has power. Haven’t seen it in the bigs yet, Minaya is high on him but he could be a bench guy again next year and take over in 2010.
I don’t expect the Mets in the Tex sweepstakes. They’ll focus on Perez first.
By BL
August 27, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
I agree completely Shaun. I have seen Kobe drop 40 on a terrible night many times.
I was more responding to Rico’s post about how JF was “substandard” in ‘06 and ‘07 at the plate.
I will tell you though that an RBI is and RBI. I agree Jeff has had his chances (more than anyone else) and blown them. Definite off year. I just think our offensive problems (sometimes bad season) get pinned on him too easily.
To say that the value of an RBI has diminished because someone has had more opportunities and not drove in runs is not accurate. 100 RBIs is still 100 RBIs
Keep in mind Jeff has so many at bats because he doesn’t he walk and has been healthy all year. No excuse for all the wasted chances, but we could twist and turn baseball stats all day. There are tons.
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Graham
Wow about Corky… just Wow
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, completely agree about Dane Cook. There should be an investigation to determine who he knows or is related to or who he’s shaggin’. His fame is an absolute mystery.
Billy, no one judges players solely using stats. They judge players based on their ability and stats are evidence for what kind of abilities and how much players have.
Also, what are you doing when you say, “Francoeur had some nice numbers hitting with RISP”? Do you “live in an artificial baseball world” when you say that?
By nolie
August 27, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
If you have a chance DOB, check out another show Leary and Peter Tolan created called “The Job.” And to all of you who haven’t had the chance — netflix one of Leary’s first movies, “The Ref.”Braint
a big Preach On for both of those.
By Josh
August 27, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t go as far to call Francoeur’s ‘07 sub-standard, especially when you factor his defense/arm from last season into the equation. But I feel that he was pretty overrated coming into this season. In 2007 he was basically league average offensively, with the RBIs a result of his .917 OPS with RISP. RBIs aren’t a very good way of measuring a player’s individual abilities, and I think that his reaching the 100 RBI plateau in 2006 (which was pretty awful statistically) & 2007 led many (including me) to expect too much out of him in 2008.
This season’s horrid performance is most likely an aberration, but when you look at the total body of work, including his minor league numbers, it’s a risk to count on him to be anything more than a league average offensive player in the near future.
By Billy
August 27, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Shaun did you read where it said ‘06 and ‘07?
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Lew—
Yeah, sorry about that…I regretted it as soon as I hit “post”. Sometimes when I’m real ticked off I say dumb words like “fiddlesticks”. It won’t happen again—word of honor!
Greg—
Morning…
I think it’s safe to say that, at least in the past week, McCann has had more men on base in front of him than anyone else on the team—and he has three RBI since last Monday? He needs 18 more to get to 90…it cann be done. But I must say I’m deeply disappointed in the way he’s “hit” this month.
His AVG with RISP this month is—brace yourself—.174. .174? That’s terrible. In July, he hit .421 with RISP.
Is this because of “fatigue”? (I hate that word.) Mmm…more likely, well…When do they play the Fillies again? Two weeks…?
BTW—I’m very happy for Corky. Glad he’s doing well.
By Ben
August 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
So what’s the story on this Luis Sumoza teenager the Braves are supposedly getting in the Kotsay deal, according to espn.com? 19 year old outfielder says the scoop. I thought I’d read we were going to be getting a mid-level pitching prospect for Mark.
By nolie
August 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
“Oh, It’s Twue It’s twue it’s twue” Lili Von Shtupp
By Josh
August 27, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
DAP
OPS+ is relative to the league, and adjusted for park factors. So jeff was a bit above the average player offensively in 2007, plus he played solid defense and saved plenty of runs with his arm as well.
By DAP
August 27, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
anders i figured they would hang onto him, since he certinly isnt killing the offense like he did at times last season. thanx.
By Billy
August 27, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Also, what are you doing when you say, “Francoeur had some nice numbers hitting with RISP”? Do you “live in an artificial baseball world” when you say that?
Shaun you sound like a young guy to make an attempt to insult me. I am fully aware how Jeff was “on” with RISP in ‘06 and ‘07. Maybe I made a mistake sharing a professional opinion with kid’s.
By Graham
August 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Goodoleboy58
Based upon the way Corky was playing in Atlanta, I think there are other words to describe it, but they are not permissable in a public forum such as this.
DOB
What are your thoughts on Corky’s acheivement?
By Bravedawg
August 27, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
DOB
I cast my unfunny vote with Dane Cook. Absolutely dreadful. His popularity is a complete mystery to me. Awful. Painfully unfunny.
Is it because he’s not “edgy” enough for you? I think the guy is hilarious. You know why? He makes me laugh. I don’t need him to be unpopular and non-mainstream in order to like him. Sometimes I feel like we get a little too full of ourselves.
I understand it’s your opinion - but I wonder: if some random dude that you saw in a dive bar somewhere in Oskaloosa, Iowa had the same routine, would you like him? I would guess so. Because he’s not mainstream. Sometimes, artists/comedians/musicians are mainstream BECAUSE THEY’RE GOOD, and are able to appeal to a diverse cross-section of people. Just because you can only find someone’s record at The Wuxtry doesn’t mean they’re talented.
By Graham
August 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Excuse me while I learn how to spell
“achievement”
BTW, my last comment was not a knock on Corky. Just something unexpected.
By Goodoleboy58
August 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Graham
That is sure to go on the Corky Miller achievement mantle haha
By ConwayTwisty
August 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
By the way, why don’t you learn how to spell my name? Even if it were hard to spell, you’ve got the correct spelling right in front of you. You’re 0-2 so far, buddy. It’s annoying. Why is my name apparently so hard for people to get right? Why don’t you pay attention? Why don’t the ignorant five or six million people who have pronounced and/or written “Ronald” “Ronnie” pay attention? Why do people see two “l”s but only spell one and leave off the “s” at the end of my last name? Again, why don’t people just blamed pay attention?RonnieMalsips
Guess you’re just not important or memorial enough dude. Oh well, just deal with it Millie
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
BL, the question is not about the value of an RBI. And RBI definitely equals a run for the team. The question is who gets most of the credit for an RBI? If a runner gets a triple and the next batter grounds out to drive him in, should both plays be viewed equally in terms of determining which was more valuable to the team?
Giving more credit to the runner that grounded out is kind of like giving the Cy Young Award to a closer who saved 30 games rather than a far superior pitcher who won 18…and using the rationale that the closer finished more games so he should get more credit. All the guy who grounded out did was finish off the scoring. Doesn’t mean he necessarily did something bad or didn’t do a decent job.
The thing is a player could cost his team relative to a mediocre player (or worse) but still rack up a seemingly impressive RBI total.
Someone else said something brilliant earlier: In baseball you want hitters who get on base, hit for power or have enough speed to accrue bases without as much power as other players; and RBI don’t necessarily give us any indication of these abilities. RBI is basically purely a results-based stat but things like OBP and SLG and SB% actually give us and indication of a player’s skills.
By brian
August 27, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
according to ESPN the Braves will receive Class A OF Luis Sumoza. Batting .301 with 11 HR and 38 RBI. 20 years old
By Brian
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
The most unfunny movie- Waynes World, Dana Carvey is clueless and Mike Myers isn’t that funny to me either. Funniest movie- Bad News Bears, that fat kid cracks me up! Walter Matthau gettin’ drunk was histerical.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Bravedawg, actually you could probably find plenty of Dane Cook’s records at Wuxtry — because people sell them back after purchasing them and realizing how unfunny he is. (Smile, dude. We’re talking about comedians. What does “edgy” or anything else have to do with it? If you’re funny, you’re funny. All a matter of taste. Obviously, a lot of people find him funny, because he sells a lot more CDs than, say, Patton Oswalt. Sort of like Britney sells more CDs than, say, Aimee Mann.)
By BravesFanInRockies
August 27, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Keith Law says Kotsay went for a 19-y.o. OF Luis Sumoza, who’s in A ball.
By all accounts, Kotsay might not even be a Type B free agent, so the Braves got something for him.
I’m happy he’ll get to play for a playoff contender. And IMO this is a good sign that Wren is seriously into restructuring the roster for 2009.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Bravedawg, I can’t speak for DOB but I don’t think Dane Cook isn’t funny because I think he isn’t funny.
Bill Cosby I would say is pretty mainstream and not really edgy, and I find him funny. His routine from the 1970s or ’08s or whenever about having children is hilarious and not edgy at all.
Billy, I’m just saying you say stats are for an artificial baseball world but then you turn around and bring up Francoeur’s numbers with RISP to make your point. Sorry if that offended you, but I just find that odd that you would contradict yourself that blatantly.
Also, yes, I realize that we are talking about 2007. I posted earlier that it was a rather poor season for a major league rightfielder but it was fine for a 23-year-old in the majors. It was a poor season because Francoeur made outs too often and wasn’t that impressive of a slugger. But he was holding his own at 23 in the majors, so in that regard it was an okay season.
By cooper
August 27, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Agree with DOB Dane Cook is a mystery. He is just not funny on any level.
And don’t get me started on the girls he has dated.
Dane is the Kevin Federline of the comic world - he must be pinching himself every day saying how did this happen to me?
By Steve from OH
August 27, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Here’s a little bit on that Sumoza character from soxprospects.com:
” Athletic and well-built, Sumoza signed for a big bonus out of Venezuela in mid-2004. Gifted athlete, still very raw. Shows the potential to be a five-tool player, but needs a lot of refinement. High power potential. Above average speed. Strikes out too much, still has some holes in his swing. Hits from a slightly open stance. Keeps his hands around his helmet. Swing tends to get a bit too long and he can jam himself. In the field, Sumoza has above average range, a decent glove, and a good arm. Overall, he has a ton of potential, but still a long way to go.”
He’s played several seasons in the GCL and VSL, but in his first season of A ball he’s put up a line of .301/.366/.549 for a .915 OPS.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Bravedawg, I can’t speak for DOB but I don’t think Dane Cook isn’t funny because I think he isn’t funny.
Speaking of comedy…too many double negatives.
That should read: I think Dane Cook isn’t funny because I think he isn’t funny.
By Luther
August 27, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
A gun rack? I don’t even own a gun, let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack.
By Lee in S GA
August 27, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
If you want to see something unfunny try watching tlyer perry’s House of Payne. House of Pain is more like it.
Glad Kotsay is getting a chance to make it to the post-season; however, that alone is not enough to make me cheer for the Red Sox. The Braves outfiled should be very interesting in the next couple of years. Competition is what it is all about.
By Brian
August 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
I think this is a smart move by Wren. Get what you can outta Kotsay and mabey use this guy and a couple of other prospects to get an ace. It’s more complicated than that, but it’s a start. Off limits- Hanson/Heyward. I’m not so sure about anyone else though, if it’s the right pitcher. Peavy or Halladay come to mind.
By Renegator
August 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Dane Cook is funny either but not because of his content.
I can’t stand his delivery. He’s just too hyper for my liking. It’s a little too ADD for me…
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
My vote for funniest “clean” comedian goes to Brian Regan.
“I always get confused when I see two log trucks pass each other on the highway. It seems like a lot of time and money could have been saved with a phone call. You had logs?”
Take Luck!
By DAP
August 27, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
as far as who is funny, to me it depends on what they are doing…like someone mentioned jack black isnt funny….i dont know if he does stand up, maybe he isnt a funny stand-up comic, but he is funny in movies. my favorite movie: school of rock, and jack black black is very funny in that one.
dane cook, to me, doesnt suck doing stand up(he isnt good either, just ok), but is horribly unfunny in movies.
some of my favorite stand-ups are bill cosby(one of the all time greats), mitch hedberg, brian regan, and i really like most of carlos mencia’s stuff.
By SoWeGa Fanatic
August 27, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman on MLB.COM has article on Kotsay going to Red Sox for Sumoza.
By Greg in TN
August 27, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
What’s the world coming to? Corky gets POTW honors in the International League and Jorge Sosa gets 50 days for a “performance” enhancing drug.
Jorge might need to get his money back.
McFann: Everything is down for Mac this month. Only 1 homer, his OBP and OPS is down. He is staying steady on steals, so maybe he’s stealing too much? (kidding) BMac dropped off some last September, but had a strong August so I hope it’s not a prolonged drop off this year. I do think he’ll bounce back in September and hit better, particularly with RISP.
By Bravedawg
August 27, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
DOB - I’m smiling, don’t worry. It’s a difference of opinion. I just feel like too many people say they don’t like him because he’s mainstream and he gets the hottest women on the planet. Can’t blame a guy for that.
I actually love Patton Oswalt. Between the Dr. Pepper routine, the Gay Pride Parade routine, and the Buying a Morning After Pill from Costco routine, I think he’s almost as funny as Tyler Perry (kidding).
By Bravedawg
August 27, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
DOB - I’m smiling, don’t worry—because I’m thinking of all of the funny Dane Cook material. It’s a difference of opinion. I just feel like too many people say they don’t like him only because he’s mainstream and he gets the hottest women on the planet. Can’t blame a guy for that.
I actually love Patton Oswalt. Between the Dr. Pepper routine, the Gay Pride Parade routine, and the Buying a Morning After Pill from Costco routine, I think he’s almost as funny as Tyler Perry (kidding).
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
The kid Sumoza just turned 20 last month. Probably 2-3 years away.
Fiddlesticks, such language on a family blog!
:-)
By Josh
August 27, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
If Sumoza is in fact the player coming to Atlanta then it’s a nice job by Wren. He’s a couple of years away but the Braves have a glut of stellar to solid OF prospects in various levels of the minors.
Schafer Heyward G. Hernandez B. Jones Sumoza Kody Johnson
The team could easily spin some of this depth off into other areas, like they did when they had a surplus of middle infielders a couple of years ago.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Sumoza’s interesting. Just turned 20. wasn’t in Red Sox preseason top 30 prospects, but is a raw, potential five-tool type guy. Great body, very athletic, according to scouts.
He’s an outfielder, average defensively, bats right, throws right.
Batting cleanup for Class A Lowell, hitting .301 with 11 homers and 38 RBI in 51 games, with 59 strikeouts in 193 at-bats, with 21 walks, a .915 OPS.
He’s come on strong this year, was New York-Penn League Player of the Week a couple of weeks ago after hitting .565 with five doubles, three homers, 10 RBI to lead his team to a 6-1 week. He’s a streaky hitter, had three straight three-hit games in that week.
By Big Easy
August 27, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
You know, I have never been impressed with Dane Cook, but I figured, what the heck, I would check him out on YouTube just to see if he really was as unfunny as I thought he was.
I was right. Very unfunny. I thought I was gonna laugh once, but then I realized it was just indigestion. :)
I do like Denis Leary, though. I know everyone says he stole Bill Hicks’ act, and I can’t really argue that, but I still dig his stuff.
~E~
By Hit, Heap, Hit!
August 27, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Don’t take it out on DOB, just google “dane cook is not funny” and you’ll see thousands of people who agree with DOB, myself included.
By THIS JUST IN
August 27, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Sumoza is a 20 year old in rookie ball? He should probably be in low A at this point. Wonder why he didn’t get there sooner?
By knowitall
August 27, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Lee in S G, agree with you on House of Payne. I will say in Perry’s defense though that I have seen most of his stage plays live and they are hilarious. I think he’s at his best when he’s being spontaneous and playing to the audience. That just doesn’t carry over very well to TV or movies.
By Jake The Snake
August 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
I’ll credit Denis Leary with stealing the right stuff.
It’s strange. The fact that Leary stole Hicks’s act doesn’t make Denis Leary less funny…it just makes Hicks that much more profound.
However, it cannot be disputed that Leary is an unoriginal copycattin’ b*******…at least when it comes to “No Cure…”
By Wayne in Utah
August 27, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
What’s the weather forecast look like for tonight in Atlanta?
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
A few thoughts:
Does anyone else think Frank Wren looks a little like ESPN’s Steve Phillips?
If I could see any 2 professional teams play one another, it would definitely be the Angels Vs. the Devils.
By BL
August 27, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Shaun I am sure we could go all day over this and I see what you are saying. But remember that all those stats are great but until that foot hits the plate, that is all we have is stats. With the exception of this year, Jeff has been a MLB leader in 2 out RBI’s. He has been #2 and #1 in RBI’s for the team in ‘06 & ‘07. This is in response to an earlier post by someone else about a “substandard” career preceding this year from Jeff.
I do have a question though, (besides the torrid numbers w/ the bases juiced) couldn’t you say his back is already against the wall in regards to trying to maintain those stats because he plays everyday.
See I think because he has stayed healthy his whole career and doesn’t walk he obviously gets more at bats.
So doesn’t that kind of magnify the areas he is weak in because he has such a big sample size?
I think that each stat should most importantly coincide with where you are batting in the lineup (OBP for a leadoff, etc.). So besides his missed opportunities this year, couldn’t you say he has done what we need out of a power based RF in the middle to late part of the order. My point is, with in reason, should it be the end of the world if our 5-6 hole has a cruddy on-base% or SB% but has 100 RBIs. I do say the slugging needs to improve drastically.
I think that evaluates perfectly the skills we need out of that particular hitter.
By Bravedawg
August 27, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Hit, Heap, Hit
Don’t take it out on DOB, just google “dane cook is not funny” and you’ll see thousands of people who agree with DOB, myself included.
That’s horrible logic. I’m sure you could find thousands of people who think that the Holocaust never happened. I’m not taking anything out on DOB. Why do you feel the need to take up for him?
By DAP
August 27, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
this just in its not rookie ball, its A ball short season, and sumoza is far from being the oldest player on the team.
if it will be three years until he is ready, he cold debut in the majors at age 23, which is pretty young, actually.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Josh Anderson recalled to take Kotsay’s roster spot
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Just got off the phone with Kotsay, who was about to board a flight: “It’ll be a fun experience for the next 30 days, that’s for sure. Just one of those deals, we’ll get through it.”
As for playing for Cox and Braves, he said: “It was a great experience, man.”
By Jeff R
August 27, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Sumoza’s a nice pick up. Young guy with real upside potential. And as others have written, it gives the Braves some farm system depth at OF for potential deals - for pitching, hopefully.
Not to forget that Anderson’s game has really picked up at Richmond. He’s earned the call up.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Here’s a quick story I just filed:
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
Another piece of the 2008 Braves has been shipped out.
As expected, the Braves completed a trade this morning to send Mark Kotsay to the Boston Red Sox for outfield prospect Luis Sumoza, a power hitter who’s having his best season in Class A.
The teams finalized the trade Wednesday morning after spending much of Tuesday negotiating details of the deal, which sent the 32-year-old center fielder to Boston in time to be eligible for their postseason roster.
“It’ll be a fun experience for the next 30 days, that’s for sure,” Kotsay said as he prepared to board a flight for Boston on Wednesday afternoon. “Just one of those deals, we’ll get through it.”
Despite the Braves’ disappointing season, Kotsay said this of his eight months with the organization: “Great experience, man.”
Sumoza, who turned 20 on July 15, has hit .301 with team-highs of 11 homers and 38 RBIs in 51 games for Class-A Lowell (Mass.) while batting cleanup.
Kotsay, 32, hit .289 with 26 extra-base hits including six homers and 37 RBIs in 88 games and spent five weeks on the disabled list for a bulging disk, the latest in a series of back problems that have slowed him in recent seasons.
The Braves fell out of playoff contention last month and have since made moves with an eye toward the future.
Outfielder Josh Anderson was recalled from Class AAA Richmond to take Kotsay’s roster spot and should be in Atlanta for tonight’s game against Florida.
Kotsay is eligible for free agency after the season and wasn’t expected to be re-signed by the Braves, who have younger, less-expensive but unproven options including top prospect Jordan Schafer.
Sumoza wasn’t among the top-30 Red Sox prospect in Baseball America’s preseason ratings, but has come on strong this season and was the New York-Penn League Player of the Week earlier this month after hitting .565 with five doubles, three homers and 10 RBIs to lead his team to a 6-1 week.
The Venezuela native is listed as 6 feet and 190 pounds, and regarded as a raw but talented four- or five-tool prospect. He’s only considered to be an average defensive player, and the right-handed hitter had 59 strikeouts in 193 at-bats.
Kotsay was was scratched from Tuesday night’s game against Florida for precautionary reasons, the Braves not wanting him to risk injury because they were so close to finalizing the deal with Boston.
He was called to manager Bobby Cox’s office before the game and the situation was explained to him. Kotsay was a pinch-hitter in the ninth inning and drew an intentional walk during a four-run rally that gave the Braves a 10-9 win.
The 12-year veteran called it his “weirdest night” as a major leaguer. “But I knew [being traded] was possible, so it wasn’t a complete shock.”
Kotsay had a 5-for-5 game Aug. 14 against Chicago when he became the second player in Atlanta Braves history to hit for the cycle — single, double, triple, home run.
The Red Sox have been looking for improved offense in their outfield, a pursuit that gained some urgency Tuesday after Boston outfielder J.D. Drew went on the disabled list with a herniated disk.
Kotsay missed most of the 2007 season with Oakland following back surgery. The Braves traded reliever Joey Devine to the Athletics in January to get Kotsay to serve as a stopgap center fielder, a one-year bridge from Andruw Jones to prospect Jordan Schafer. They didn’t try to re-sign Jones last winter.
Before he was traded to Boston, Oakland had been paying all but $2 million of the $7.35 million Kotsay was owed in 2008.
The Braves conceded they were done competing for a playoff berth this season July 29 when they traded pending free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira to the Los Angeles Angels for Casey Kotchman, a less-expensive replacement.
Schafer was slapped with a 50-game suspension for human growth hormone in April while playing for Class AA Mississippi. But he’s back playing well there and still might be ready to play for Atlanta in 2009.
Kotsay cleared waivers after the July 31 no-waiver trade deadline. Boston and Philadelphia were among teams that subsequently called with trade interest.
Teams have until Aug. 31 to add players to their roster to make them eligible for postseason play.
By monty
August 27, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
The fact that the Braves won last night is a testament to the state of the Marlins team right now. The BRaves and their bungling selves had numerous chances to win but couldn’t get a clutch hit. One inning they had the bases loaded and no one out, they score two, only becaused the MArlins pitchers walked in two, Braves don’t even score if not for that.
THE MArlins tried their best to give the game away. Even in the 9th Ramirez had to help us out, need a key hit, bases loaded 1 out, what does Blanco do? Hits a perfect double play ball to 2nd baseman. What does Chipper do? Strikes out. etc.etc.. THe game was gift wrapped to us.
By Hit, Heap, Hit!
August 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Why do you feel the need to take up for him?
Bravedawg, I guess the same reason you felt the need to “take up for” Dane Cook.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
hey, to this just in: He’s not in Rookie ball, he’s in Class A. And he just turned 20 last month. Nothing out of the ordinary there at all….
Bobby’s Cox: No, Wren doesn’t look anything like Philips, other than hair color. Absolutely no other resemblance. And your last (deleted) post was lame.
By Braves Fan Pat
August 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Dane Cook is a comic thief. He is one f the most hated comedians among comedians. It’s amazing how Carlos Mencia and him are beloved by the public. Both steal jokes and both are unfunny.
By ncscoots
August 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Maybe I made a mistake sharing a professional opinion with kid’s.
Could you elucidate on the “professional” part of that comment? Are you indeed employed in the baseball profession? Or do you opine professionally? Or something of the like?
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Greg—
You’re right in saying everything’s down fro Mac this month…His last homer was August 9 in Arizona. And he only has 4 doubles this month! If he doesn’t watch out, someone’s gonna pass him in those departments—the same someone who knocked in 7 last night to take over the lead for RBI by a ML catcher this year (again, not naming any names…).
Last year, Mac’s stats in September were very similar to his stats this August. One thing I found “int’resting”: At the end of August 2007, he had started 108 games for the year. He’s already started 109 this year. And seven of the games he had off were in one week, so he’s started a ton of games in a row at times. (If you don’t count those seven, that’s 16 games off, but that point is moot.) Again, I can’t stand the “fatigue” excuse, but with catchers its a bit more “realistic”, if you will. (Just look at Martin this month and Kendall in July.)
I think September will be a different story, though. Perhaps he cann get that season AVG back up to .300, and that AVG with RISP back up there as well. More doubles, more homers, and more RBI!
Wayne Fiddlesticks, such language on a family blog!
Oh, I know! I’m really sorry about that! Don’t know what came over me!
; )
By Brian
August 27, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
OH LORD, all there talking about around here is HS football,college football and Nascar. Whoever has said the south isn’t baseball country couldn’t be more right. Ask any redneck around here about the Braves here’s your answer: Nah, I quit watchin’ ever sance da’ haddat strike. OL’ Glavine a dern trader too.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
…but has come on strong this season and was the New York-Penn League Player of the Week earlier this month after hitting .565 with five doubles, three homers and 10 RBIs to lead his team to a 6-1 week.
Uh-oh…Corky better watch out!
Glad Anderson’s back. Still hate to see Z go so soon, though. This new guy better be good!
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
BL, again, it’s not that RBI don’t tell us anything, it’s that they don’t tell us much about an individual player’s abilities. RBI total may tell us that a player is a good hitter but it may not; it may just tell us that he’s hitting behind hitters that are always on base and he’s in the lineup often.
I think that each stat should most importantly coincide with where you are batting in the lineup
To a certain extent that’s probably true. But there are certain things that equate and are necessary to being a good major league hitter—like good on-base ability and slugging ability.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
Here’s the Hour-By-Hour thingy from the Weather Channel’s website for Atlanta.
All’s clear!
By Braint
August 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
JF substandard last year? Under 25 years old?.293 with 105 RBIs and a gold glove is substandard? Could we please have three, 25 yr old, substadard OFs for next year please?
By A Bemused Observer
August 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
My automobile mechanic is a 123 tool prospect.
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Luis Sumoza from Maracay, Venezuela. Wait a minute, Martin Prado, from **Maracay, Venezuela??? I smell a conspiracy!
What will these Prado people stop at. You know they traded for him so that Prado would feel more comfortable and have someone to talk to that understands him.
By Hit, Heap, Hit!
August 27, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Any word on Kotchman’s situation?
My brother says he’ll miss Kotsay’s wfie the most. Whatever that means.
By flange1
August 27, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
I think you just hit on it!
Now if we can get B Pena back, then Escobar and Prado will both hit .450 next year and make 0 errors.
What a perfect middle infield!!!
By Dennis Miller is a sad sack of goo
August 27, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Current stand up champion is Chris Rock., followed closely by Dennis Miller.
Dennis Miller? Pathetic, unfunny, sell-out, do-anything-these-days-for-a-gig, blow-hard, Dennis Miller?
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
As for playing for Cox and Braves, he said: “It was a great experience, man.”
Don’t let Robert (or whatever name he goes by these days) see that.
By Tomas
August 27, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Well Kotsay did, pretty much everything that was expected from him. He played great D, had a good year at the plate, and got injured. But now with Blanco, and Schafer there was really no necessity for Kotsay. Luis Sumoza, stats look good, and has the potential to be a five tool player, from what i’ve read.
Now the most tradeable player is Will Ohman, and Kelly Johnson(for the offseason). I hope that when Kotchman gets back the Braves give Prado more chances to play everyday at second, to see if he can finish strong. If he does, that gives the Braves leverage to trade Johnson, and a couple of other players for a power bat in the outfield.
By z fer
August 27, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
My brother says he’ll miss Kotsay’s wfie the most. Whatever that means.
You mean Hotsie Kotsay.
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
How yall like that Hurricane weather starter course we sent up from FL? That was Rain deluge till you flood 101. Next is watching yer furniture float and Coffetable Kayaking followed by sideways rain coming in where the wall used to be.
The most difficult course and the one that causes thousands to go back where you came from is Living with FEMA and other Government Agencies. Hope you never have to take that one.
By Bravedawg
August 27, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Hit Heap Hit
Two things: I didn’t “take up” for Dane Cook. Just merely gave another perspective. Also, Dane Cook isn’t on this blog (as far as I know). DOB is. DOB can defend himself.
And to those sharing in the RBI conversation, it’s my opinion that RBI are as reliable a stat as wins for a pitcher. Both depend on a host of other variables. One need only look at two Braves-related examples:
As DOB wrote about yesterday, Jurrjens should have many more wins than he does, but he has been the victim of horrible defense and no offense (at least over his last 5-7 starts). Because he didn’t get those wins doesn’t mean he didn’t pitch well—he did.
And Andruw got a ton of RBI last year, while hitting in the low .200s…(too lazy to look up his exact average). But he had guys like Chipper, Renteria, Escobar, Kelly, etc. getting on base at a ridiculous rate, which meant he could trip and fall into a substantial amount of RBI…heck, he could hit into a double play and still get an RBI.
So, RBI are not the end-all be-all…at least in my opinion.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Could we please have three, 25 yr old, substadard OFs for next year please?
Do you want three outfielders with on-base percentages under .340 and slugging percentages under .445? I don’t think that’s a recipe for success.
By Chop Chop
August 27, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Kotsay’s a solid player. I remember the days when the Braves had more guys like Kotsay. He will be missed, sort of.
Hit, Heap, Hit!,
Like your brother, I will also miss Kotsay’s wife. She has a very good…personality.
Farewell, Jamie Kotsay.
By Miss Robinson, third grade teacher
August 27, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
There are just too many spelling mistakes on this blog.
The next person who makes a spelling mistake is going to have to stay after and write out what they posted in longhand.
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
No RBI’s on DP’s. But you can get on a fielder’s choice.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
sorry DOB.
It was a true story…happened over the weekend, so I thought maybe it was relevant considering the non-baseball talk on the blog. Guess I should read up on the forum rules eh? Is that not something the boys don’t like to talk about in the entertainment industry - womanizing? It wasn’t supposed to be offensive, but more in line with Dane’s over-confidence toward women and himself in his lame stand-up. Oh well. Apologize again.
Back to baseball…..Glad Anderson’s back. About time.
By BA
August 27, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Dennis Miller is a riot, goo guy. You’d probably like him if he had thirty non-funny fat/goo jokes during his set.
Man, those goo jokes are HILARIOUS!
I’d say Dane Cook stinks, but he’s still funnier than goo guy.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
heck, he could hit into a double play and still get an RBI.
Nah, you don’t get credit for an RBI if a runs scores on your GIDP. See game two of the recent Mets-Braves series…uh…inning 3.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Keylargo—
Man! You beat me to it!
Oh well, sorry.
By billy g. (class president)
August 27, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Now Miss Robinson, have a little patience. Some one will come along on E Harmony soon.
By BA
August 27, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Way to go, Z (3:03)!
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
DUDE! Dane Cook is soo bad, I feel bad for him. I wasted more than 2 minutes of my life.Why do people even laugh at him on youtube. He uses more F words and moves around like a girl.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Good move by Wren.
I would’ve liked him to get a 3B prospect or a pitching prospect, but nonetheless, it looks like Wren knows what he’s doing.
Power potential hitting outfielder, not bad.
keylargo, I think you’re on to something. Did you see how happy Gotay was for Prado last night in the 9th after Prado came around to score? Probably the kid’s biggest supporter and “inner-circle” friend won’t be around next season.
Ha! I know you were joking, but that’s pretty sad that some people think of transactions that way.
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
McFann
I will concede. I’m sure you can outscore me. 8)
By DAP
August 27, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
an extreme example of RBIs being dependant on your team: if a guy has 55 ABs in a season and hits .100 with 50 singles, if every single was with the bases loaded, he would have 100 rbis at the end of the season. (assuming the runner on 2nd scores) that would never happen, but you can see a senerio where a horrible hitter gets 100 RBIs.
By Ronald Millsaps
August 27, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Shaun—I guess you also think the Braves didn’t miss Rafael Furcal in 2006, when they had Marcus Giles batting leadoff. Why don’t you take a moment to think? If you don’t think Furcal’s presence in Atlanta’s order was game-changing, you really don’t understand baseball.
“DAP”—No, it’s not arrogant for people to get frustrated when others misspell/mispronounce their names consistently. You’re about as uneducated about life as you are about baseball. I’m glad you’re not employed by the Braves and ready to make these decisions.
As for Kelly Johnson, he’s not the prototypical center-fielder, but he has experience in the outfield and could make the adjustment. All these people who bash him on here are typical armchair “experts.” They think you can play for 15 years and not get a hit but still go to Cooperstown if you get your uniform dirty a lot.
By Bye Kots
August 27, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Thanks Kotsay. I have to say I think you gave it 100% and play the game the way it’s supposed to be played.
Too bad the guy had back problems that would probably lead to repeated DL trips. I liked his attitude, and as I said, the way he played. If he was capable of playing 150 games a year, I wouldn’t mind having him around all the time. I know the Braves need some power in the outfield, but it’s unrealistic to think they are going to have 3 monster bats out there. A healthy Kotsay would have been a great role player in the outfield for the Braves. Not the big bopper but the good D and some timely hitting on occasion.
Anyway, the trade made perfect sense. Just wanted to say something nice about a guy who seems like a class act.
By Wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
So, you’re telling me the Braves traded major league ready, 1st round draft pick, hard-throwing reliever Joey Devine for injury-prone, 4-month rental Mark Kotsay who they end up trading for a A-level prospect?
And the man they said was “ready to play now” in Josh Anderson, takes his roster spot?
Talk about downgrading. We’ve come full circle. Wren pulled off a great trade to get Anderson, but pretty much ruined the deal with the Kotsay debacle. Anderson and Devine could both be on this team, and should’ve been out of spring training.
Not to knock on Kotsay, who’s a solid player and likeable guy, but damn, that whole scenario didn’t make sense. This kid Sumarza better be pretty good.
By Goo is not a joke!
August 27, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Goo is not to be trifled with.
Goo is a heartbreaking condition that afflicts one out of every ten comedians, relief pitchers, baseball managers, bloggers, even sportswriters.
Now what is a “fat tub of goo” exactly? It is not necessarily someone who is fat, although there are indeed some fat “fat tubs of goo”. Goo is a cellular disruption characterized by mediocrity, banality, and lack of potential. A “fat tub of goo” is a technical, scientific term referring to someone afflicted with an unusually large amount of goo.
In the past, people who were fat tubs of goo were shunned by society. But now, society is more tolerant. We let fat tubs of goo appear on natiowide television, or pitch in relief at key moments in baseball games. Sadly, they mostly fail. But we’ve got to support them as they keep on trying, and failing, again and again.
So, don’t ask what goo can do for you, but ask what you can do for goo.
Thank you.
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
I have to admit I quit watching after Jacobs hit the HR that put the Marlins up 8 - 4 last night. That’s what happens when you quit - you don’t get to savor the best of the best victories.
Congratulations on sticking with the Braves till the end.
By Terry Forster
August 27, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
If you don’t stop infringing on my rights I going to come back to Atlanta and stomp the goo out of you.
Goo is not you. Goo is me and my trademark. Enough is Enough.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Shaun—I guess you also think the Braves didn’t miss Rafael Furcal in 2006, when they had Marcus Giles batting leadoff. Why don’t you take a moment to think? If you don’t think Furcal’s presence in Atlanta’s order was game-changing, you really don’t understand baseball.
I guess I don’t understand baseball because the Braves finished second in runs scored in 2006.
The only year they finished that high or higher with Furcal hitting leadoff was 2003. Not saying Furcal or Giles were completely responsible for any changes in the rankings but it’s clear they did not miss Furcal in 2006.
Since Furcal left (2006-Present): 4.95 runs/game
During Furcal’s tenure with the Braves (2000-2005): 4.87 runs/game
Seasons Furcal played at least 143 games with the Braves (2002-2005): 4.93 runs/game
Furcal was really a “game-changer” and the Braves have missed his presence? I don’t see it.
By Efrim
August 27, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Wait a sec…
I don’t think the loss of side armed reliever like Joey Devine will cripple this organization.
By Terry Forster
August 27, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Clueless Goo
Here is the origin of my claim. You, or nothing about you is funny and you have filled the blog with your inane remarks that not one person has acknowledged as funny or even original.
Go away and don’t come back.
In November of 1977, Forster became the first free agent ever signed by the Dodgers. He rebounded with 22 saves and a 1.94 ERA for the 1978 pennant winners, but had bone chips removed from his elbow after the World Series. He was sometimes effective from 1982 through 1986, constantly battling weight problems. His eating habits began attracting national attention. He was with the Braves when, in June 1985, Late Night host David Letterman made Forster a national celebrity by calling him “a fat tub of goo.” (RL)
By flange1
August 27, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Totally agree with you about Devine. It is like when Wilson Betemet was traded and folks sobbed for years that it was the worst move in the history of baseball.
I liked Kotsay and wish him well in the future. I think he is a classy player and would love to have him back as a part time player in the future.
I don’t think he is what the Braves need in 2009 for LF or CF. One of the 3 kids will play center and someone new will play left (hopefully)
By Wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim
was Joey Devine side armed?
I don’t think so.
Also, if you’re discrediting side armed relievers, then surely the loss of Peter Moylan didn’t cripple the organization too much, so his name should be left out of that long list of injuries that doomed the braves this season.
If you want to say Joey Devine has his own injuries, then fine, that would be a fair argument, but the trade for Kotsay, then the obvious “lesser talent” in return, (i.e. more of a long shot to be a big-leaguer A-baller), was a downgrade, as was expected since Kotsay is a 1 month rental for the Sox.
By BL
August 27, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
I am not saying that RBI’s is all that matters at the plate. This discussion got started because even after 100 RBIs for the last 2 years out of Jeff; a big percentage still want him “traded”, “out of baseball”, “locked in solitary”, etc. Many still take his other plate stats as evidence to get him out of town.
For all those that think you can find a player with 100 RBIs everywhere…
In 2007, only 32 players hit for 100 RBIs or better. Only 16 of those 32 had an AVG above .300. Of those, Jeff had the lowest OBP and SLG. But he also had the MOST ABs. Think his high ABs help magnify his problem areas (NO WALKS).
He will always drive in runs. It needs to be accepted that he will never be a big on-base threat. Slugging needs to improve. Shaun do you really think we will get the run production we need out of one of our speed merchants in the minors?
Point is, we need RBIs from Jeff. Lets throw the OBP out the window and we can still call him a valuable hitter with room for improvement. Not sure I can find how many players had the AB qualifications for this 100 RBI discussion to do a percentage but I would say it is a small %. Wish we would quit calling for his head, hope for improvement and more patience, and continue to get people on in front of him.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Keylargo I’m sure you can outscore me
Hmm…I don’t know…8 )
I will say, my sister, our mom, and I stayed up for the whole game. I cann never bring myself to quit watching—anything could happen! (And last night it finally did!)
By To Goo or not to Goo
August 27, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
OK then, by popular demand:
Blaine Boyer is a large sack of frass.
By yoyoyo
August 27, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
i agree
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
SHAUN
I do agree Furcal is big time difference maker, there no doubt.
BUT, how many games has he played? He’s dealing with back problems and we all learned from Kotzi this year.
AND, on top of that he makes serious cash. Combination of games played and salary brings Hampton in my mind.
I would say no to this.. we have Yunel! Even though he’s nowhere as fast.
By flange1
August 27, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Wait a sec,
Efrim was correct, Devine did and does throw side armed and sometimes 3/4.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
BL, if you were here a couple of weeks ago, I was actually defending Francoeur.
And just because RBI are rare, does that mean they are telling when it comes to an individual player’s value? 20-25-win seasons are rare but just because a pitcher wins 20 games doesn’t necessarily mean he was better that a pitcher that won, say, 15 games. These stats depend on team and teammates.
Also, I agree Francoeur will never be a great on-base guy. But he must reach a certain threshold to be a valuable everyday player to a major league team. Good on-base and slugging skills equals a good hitter. There is no way around it. Those are the things that contribute to run scoring. Speed and baserunning skills can make up for a lack on slugging skill to a certain degree but on-base and slugging skills are a prerequisite to being an everyday major leaguer.
By Shaun
August 27, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
N Nine, please read my post. I actually argued that the Braves haven’t missed Furcal’s presence.
By Efrim
August 27, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Wait a sec…
My point is that the loss of Joey Devine isn’t really a big deal. Not for this organization now. Not at all. And how many wins do you think it would of added to this year’s club?
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
keylargo
I suggest you find something about the team you like. It’ll help you stay interested as the team plays out the remainder of the schedule, that is, if you’re interested in doing so. McFann is staying interested by watching McCann, and even tuned off after his pinch hit AB.
I’ve doing it by watching Prado, since as you may know I’ve thought he could hit this good for quite some time and never thought he got a fair shake.
Now, with Anderson up, I’m gonna watch the games to see how well he does since I wanted to see him play after last September and after the trade. Some seem to think that giving the kids a chance to play isn’t interesting. I for one disagree. It’s probably the only thing keeping me interested.
By BA
August 27, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Millsaps, if they were to put Johnson back in the outfield, I think it would be in left, not center. Which, in my opinion, would be comparable to Infante in left type numbers: 15 hr’s a year. AKA, Diaz/Jones/Perry etc. In other words, it doesn’t seem like Johnson would be much of an improvement over what we already have available. I kind of hope they can find a GM that still thinks Kelly will grow up to be Chase Utley (like over half of this blog still does) and move him for some pitching. That’s right: nitram odarp at 2b in ‘09!
By wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
efrim and flange 1
This doesn’t look side-armed to me.
Now flange, you said 3/4. That’s more accurate.
By Renegator
August 27, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Why don’t the Braves give Kelly a few starts in LF during September with Prado at 2nd? See how KJ does out there to see if that’s even an option for 09.
What can it hurt? They are already losing 4 out of every 5 games…
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
B’s C McFann is staying interested by watching McCann, and even tuned off after his pinch hit AB.
I tuned off the computer, but I kept watching the game.
But you raise a good point…though my end of the bargain hasn’t been so hot lately…
But when that happens, you stay int’rested by knowing that something excited could happen at any moment, and you make it a point not to miss it. (Unless the TV is flipped and you have no control over the remote.)
By wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Efrim
maybe 2 at the most. 4-5 if healthy.
Heck, considering all the 1-run road losses, maybe even 5-7. How many games has Acosta, Bennet, Boyer, et al. blown on the road? You’re undervaluing bullpens.
Moylan. This is sidearm
Devine. This is not
He probably would’ve helped win as many or more games than Kotsay did. Combine that with the speed at the top of the lineup that Anderson would’ve provided, and I think that trade was meaningless. Always will unless Devine blows up and shows to be oft-injured.
Mark Bowman is even high on Anderson. That trade will always make me scratch my head considering the circumstances. No matter how much i like Kotsay, and I do, I don’t think that trade was needed.
By Efrim
August 27, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Wait a sec….
I believe he was lower in college and with the Braves. Regardless of the arm angle, Joey Devine? You going to knock him for a reliever? A bad one at that, or sure was with the Braves. He never had control of his pitches. Not a big deal dude. Not at all.
By Vagisil
August 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
GOO
your posts are overly annoying. Could you please stop.
DOB . I saw that you deleted 1 post earlier today. Not sure what that was about, but maybe you could go 1 step farther and ban the IP address of Goo?
Thanks.
By chipdip
August 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Dane Cook is a f*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By BL
August 27, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Shaun Just going off today, and yes I was here a couple of weeks ago. Not saying that is you doing all the bashing I just hear a lot of it on here and caught yours today. I am having this conversation in context to Jeff, and/or our 5-7 hole hitter.
I disagree with though and you must compare apples to apples (hitters to pitchers doesn’t mean anything to me). Since RBIs are rare and runs win games, I would say someone that hits a lot of RBIs is telling to a players value. And yes, a pitcher that wins 20 games is more valuable than a pitcher that wins 15 (I understand the run support argument).
You can have great slugging and on base and never cross the plate. While I agree it puts you in much better position to score, it still does not get you safe at home. By driving in runs, which you said is a rare/difficult stat to achieve, doesn’t that make you valuable to your club? If my 5-7 hitter goes 1-4 with a 1-2 run homer/2 RBI every other game; he is an MVP candidate. Remember power is at a premium these days, especially after testing was ramped up.
And yes, stats aren’t the end all. Everyone has to play within their role on a well formulated team for these to mean something.
By Just Wondrin'
August 27, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
I wonder what the record is for the shortest amount of time between hitting for the cycle, and getting traded?
By Renegator
August 27, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Who cares if he threw side-arm, underhanded, or straight over the top?
He wasn’t going to get a fair shot in the bullpen as long as Bobby was around. Bobby refused to use him (except when the bases were loaded)
By Blaine Boyer is a large sack of frass
August 27, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
McFann is staying interested by watching McCann
And I’m staying interested by following the exploits of the most overrated relief pitcher on the Braves.
Blaine Boyer is a morass of frass.
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
Regarding Joey Devine,
This trade will not devastated our team. However, his future looks bright, and he has shown that this year (limited inn)
his stats: 3-0 0.83 ERA 37k in 32.2 INN. 10walks
Of course we have some folks who like to dread on the past players. It’s time to move on and see what this new kid will do for us in few years.
Shaun, srryo about that, glad we agree!
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Glad you still watched McFann, that is, if the TV wasn’t flipped.
I figured you had enough for 1 day after Soto’s 7 RBI game. Wouldn’t it be interesting to see what McCann’s numbers would look like in Chicago’s lineup, without having McCann actually have to wear little bears gear?
Well, one things for sure, there wouldn’t be another starting C for the All-Star game until 2021.
By SP
August 27, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you know if the Braves have an Academy down in Venezuela or maybe just some influential scouts? I noticed the same thing about Sumoza and Prado both being from Maracay (Ascanio is also from there). Gorkys and Blanco are from Venezuela, as well (and maybe some others I’m forgetting?).
By keylargo
August 27, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
I’ve had a lot of practice staying up watching bad Braves Baseball late in the season. WTBS used to carry all the Braves games and they certainly used to be bad to Ultra Bad.
You’ve got a huge advantage on me though watching with a 3 hour time advantage. Sometimes a bad game will put you in a deep sleep.
I have always loved it when the kids were called up from the minors. I will be pulling for Anderson. The Braves have proved a skinny centerfielder with no power, but that can steal bases will work. (Otis Nixon) I hope he starts tonight.
Prado has hit better than expected but the league will learn how to pitch to him and how to position the defense. That’s the test. He has hit a lot of fly ball extra base hits that may just be fly ball outs the next time around the league. And I still don’t think his defense is even average. In short, if he is the starter out of spring training next year, we will be a very weak team. He is a good utility man and that’s my opinion.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox—
Haha, no, after they scored their second run of the inning, we kept it locked on SportSouth (though sometimes we joke that maybe if we change the channel, something good will happen).
Yes, I had had about all I could stand after Grove’s 7 RBI performance. (Two doubles with the bases loaded? Come on, now…)
It would be int’resting to see what McCann’s numbers would be in that lineup (Heaven forbid he ever go to the Cubs). Though he’s had no shortage of men on in front of him this year, that’s for sure.
Well, one things for sure, there wouldn’t be another starting C for the All-Star game until 2021.
Ain’t it the truth…haha…
Gotta split…Steak ‘n’ Shake’s waiting…We oughta be back by the start of the game.
By N Nine
August 27, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Cnnsi’s John Hayman predicts braves will pick up John Smoltz’s $12M option!
What you guys think? Ok with this plan?
By Wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Wait a second Efrim
There you go again, making dumb, un-called for, un-true statements.
I believe he was lower in college and with the Braves. Regardless of the arm angle, Joey Devine? You going to knock him for a reliever? A bad one at that, or sure was with the Braves. He never had control of his pitches. Not a big deal dude. Not at all.
Devine’s stats this year.
.083 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 3.70 K/BB, 10.19 K/9 37 K’s, all in 32.2 IP. He hasn’t allowed a HR this year. He’s got a modest .405 GB percentage.
A bad reliever? I’d like to see your definition of a good reliever.
The Dude was activated on Aug 3 from the DL. He’s thrown 10.2 scoreless innings since he’s been activated with 9 K’s and 3 walks.
He’s been lights out, and we pretty much just traded all of that for a A-ball kid with power potential, very unlikely to ever make the bigs, but if he does, will take 2-3 years for him to do so.
Not a good trade Efrim. And when you resort to, “well, it doesn’t matter if he’s side arm or not”, after saying he was, then that’s evidence you’re thinking emotionally and not rationally about the situation.
By StingerSplash
August 27, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Loved Bill Hicks and I am partial to Jake Johansen, especially his many appearances on Letterman. When Chris Rock is on, there might be none better alive and working today. Joe Rogan has taken it upon himself to be some sort of guardian of comedic material and he’s called out Carlos Mencia for using other people’s stuff without attribution. I have no idea why Dane Cook and Jack Black are found to be funny. Just don’t get it. I used to really love Carlin, especially when I was younger, but the older I got, the more I thought he was just bitter. Have to disagree with the Marty Short and Steve Martin shots. No one does Jerry Lewis better than Martin Short (I was huge SCTV fan when it was on) and while Martin’s standup stuff may seem dated now, his movie work — “Parenthood”, “Trains, Planes and Automobiles”, “Bowfinger” — is damn good. And as we bid farewell to Mark Kotsay, we also say, Jamie, we hardly knew ye. Darn.
By Benjamin Braddock
August 27, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Miss Robinson- Elaine? How are you and your mother?
*”Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?
Our nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you.
What’s that you say, Mrs.Robinson?
Joltin’ Joe has left and gone away.”*
By Wait a sec....
August 27, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
keylargo
glad you’ve paid attention all year and listened the few times I pointed out I was on the west coast. I’m impressed.
Prado’s numbers will come down. However, he’s shown he can hit the ball to all fields. They tried coming in on him all yesterday and he smacked a ball to the left field corner for another double. His HR this year came when he turned on one as well.
He’s got a good eye, doesn’t seem to chase many pitches, especially the low and away slider than many young kids fall victim too (see francoeuer, AJ). If he does chase, it’ll be on the high fastball. But, he’s shown he can hit breaking balls (up the middle by pulling in his hands) and fastballs.
I just don’t see him regressing all that much. You’re right, some of the balls hit to right center can be caught, but his ability to stay inside the ball allows him to stay on pitches and hit the ball where it’s pitched.
If anything, it makes for interesting discussion. I think the skills i just mentioned are ideal major league hitter.
Defense? Honestly, I thought he’d be better. But, he said earlier this year that he tries to do too much. I’d expect him to get better over time with more playing time, much like Escobar will and many young kids. But the defense needs help.
By T. Boone Pickens
August 27, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
(Devine) He’s been lights out…
It seems that so many pitchers have been “lights out” lately that our country must be saving a lot of electricity and therefore we’re importing less foreign oil.
I guess I can shut down my wind farm.
By supergrass
August 27, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
i saw 15 comments for like 24 hours- now i get over 500….. was the blog down for any1 else?
By bravos2249
August 27, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Cnnsi’s John Hayman predicts braves will pick up John Smoltz’s $12M option!
1st off I thought it was 13-14 million and 2nd that would be voiding a contract. They have to re-sign Smoltzie.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Just got up from clubhouse and dugout, got a lot of stuff from Wren about September callups, etc. I’ll crank out a new blog here in a minute.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
have fun at the wedding McFann.
And what I meant by the Cub hypothetical was that McCann would have better hitters behind him in that lineup. It’s true that he’s had many runners on base during his AB’s, but he hasn’t had the same quality hitters protecting him in the lineup that Chicago has, that’s for sure.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
ooops, i said wedding…lol. read your post too fast mcfann.
By Jeff R
August 27, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
Fact is, Devine was going to be traded, like it or not. Management mishandled Devine by pushing him up through the system far too fast. And when he blew some important chances, and his confidence went south for a while, management decided to send him packing.
These days, I know that teams have a lot invested in their prospects, so they tend to rush kids up. For some players, it works; for others, it doesn’t. Devine needed time to learn to pitch and gain confidence in the bushes.
Devine was a talented pitcher then, and he is now. But he’s long gone and the kid the Braves got for Kotsay has some upside potential. As someone else wrote, with more than a few good OF prospects, Wren may have a little more lattitude to structure deals this winter. Let’s hope so.
By Steve from OH
August 27, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
BL, your logic just doesn’t make sense. RBI are the by-product of getting on base and slugging. You can’t score runs if you don’t get on base. You “become valuable to your club” by not making outs. If you make outs, you cannot score. This seems logical enough. But you seem to think that if a player gets, say, 1 hit out of 10, Corky Miller-style, but every at-bat that said player gets is with RISP, that this player is somehow good. This player is not good. He sucks.
Once again, RBI are the by-product of on-base and slugging skills. Players with high OPS numbers are the kinds of players you want on your team. You do not want 1993-esque Ruben Sierra’s, even in their 100 RBI glory, on your team. A team full of these Ruben Sierras will win approximately 12 games. You do not want this to happen.
This is so, so, sooooooooooo stupid.
By Couch Tater
August 27, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
stinger
One of my favorites is Steven Wright. “Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.”
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
SP, they have some of their best scouts down there. They also have Eddie Perez with plenty of connections down there.
Frank said, by the way, that Braves were a finalist for this Sumoza kid a few years ago when he signed as an undrafted free agent with the Red Sox.
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
No Anderson in the lineup tonight.
Lineup as per Yahoo:
blanco, escobar, chipper, mccann, johnson, prado, francoeuer, b. jones, hampton.
Probably won’t get a start until the braves face a lefty, Friday vs. Washington’s Odalis Perez.
Could be wrong. We’ll see. Can’t wait to read Wren’s statements from DOB.
By Hit, Heap, Hit
August 27, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Tater, I love that one. Steven Wright is great. My kinda funny.
By McFann :Ô:
August 27, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox ooops, i said wedding…lol. read your post too fast mcfann.
Haha…That’s OK.
I see now what you mean about him being in the Cubs’ lineup. Yeah, Mac hasn’t had those kinds of hitters behind him.
By JeremyL
August 27, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Why, for the love of God, will Bobby not start Anderson???? Blanco is hitting .258 and Anderson hit over .300 when he was up earlier this year. I know Bobby fell in love with Blanco in Spring Training, but it’s time to give Anderson a real shot, not call him up and let him sit on the bench.
By richbrave
August 27, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
A rumor that is enough to make you puke:
The AA BOWIE ORIOLES are supposedly coming to town to replace? the BRAVES. I despise that prick that owns their club, but as the NATIONALS and the ORIOLES are basically vying for the same territory it makes good sense from the O’s perspective. I said all along the NATIONALS would need to protect their southern flank. Looks like the upstart junior circuit has beaten them to it unless locals fight it.
And I doubt that. Seems most fans are elated to have someone else interested in relo-ing here. On well, I tolerated the VIRGINIANS when the YANKEES had their AAA franchise here. MEL STOTTLEMEYER, AL DOWNING, TOM TRESH, TONY KUBECK, BOBBY COX et.al. I guess I can go see AMERICAN LEAGUE baseball again. Makes me feel like a colt again anyway - maybe.
By Robert
August 27, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Kotsay is 32 years old and has a career adjusted OPS of 100 - in other words he is a very average player who is likely into the down side of his career.
While he certainly can contribute significantly to a major league club, what he is as a player is not a necessity for a rebuilding team - and if somehow the Braves grow to feel that this kind of player IS a necessity, it’s a rather easily replaceable commodity
In other words, it’s not so much about whether trading Kotsay made sense but rather that keeping Kotsay didnt make much sense
By Robert
August 27, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
Shaun said ” I suppose it’s human nature to desire for the world to always be orderly and reasonable and assume that it always is.”
Oh and I agree. I mean it makes much more sense to attribute adverzse events as bad luck as opposed to trying to analyze a logical reason for why things might’ve gone wrong
It’s all just a crapshoot anyway unless you have 4 starting power pitchers - right Shaun?
(Dipstick)
By Bobby's Cox
August 27, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
remember the days when the Braves would bring up a rookie and Bobby would play them that same day.
Hasn’t bee the case the last 2 years, seems like ever since he did it with Devine. Devine pitched good that day, but never should’ve been out there for a second inning.
By Fred Secunda
August 27, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
The problem with this club is, Bobby Cox manages only one way. He has his first two guys in the lineup set the table for the middle of the order to drive in. Compared to other managers, he does very little base stealing and hit and runs, because for whatever reason this team does not have a bunch of good base runners and their hitters are too strike out prone.
Not playing small ball works fine if you have some mashers in the middle of the order, but what happens when you trade away one of your biggest guns and two guys you were counting on don’t hit for power (Kelly and Francoeur)? You have guys like Martin Prado and Greg Norton hitting in the middle of your batting order, lofting singles over infielders heads.
I’m not one to call for Bobby’s head. The guy’s a Hall of Fame manager and anyone who thinks he’s not great needs to have their head examined. But I will say, in the face of adversity, which in the case of the offense is the power shortage, Bobby and Co. proved to us how one dimensional this team could be, and how vulnerable a team can be if you don’t have a backup plan.
By David O'Brien
August 27, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP
By Robert
August 27, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
It’s not so much that McDowell was the wrong guy to hire as it is that Mazzone was the wrong guy to let go
By Couch Tater
August 27, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
They showed Jack Nicholson in the crowd at Yankee Stadium. I guess he’s upset that Coco Crisp is starting instead of Kotsay.
By TNJeff
August 27, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Braves pull out momentum changing late inning victory - WRONG - I expect that tonight’s game should be ugly since they always seem to follow up seemingly significant wins with ugly losses.
Hope I’m wrong
Know this - These Braves have a will to lose
By Robert
August 27, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Our buddy Shaun epitomizes the difference between being familiar with statistics and understanding statistics
By TNJeff
August 27, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Did someone ask if Wren looks like Steve Phillips? He may not look physically like him but his player moves are woefully similiar.
Trade Tex & get an anemic hitting vanishing player.
Trade Kotsay and get an A League player.
Building a loser here
By Ronald Millsaps
August 28, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
Shaun—
Nice job with the usage of statistics with one problem: You mislead. You don’t think Rafael Furcal was missed that year? One of the main things that comes to mind that season is the vast number of times Edgar Renteria got a quiet single with one out and nobody on and did not score later. Yes, that team scored runs, but if you’ll remember correctly, that unit was more of a feast/famine unit than a team that could give you a high median of runs scored—which is why statisticians oftentimes hate the word “average.” If you want me to side with you, you’re going to have to come up with substance, not mirages. That team had some offensive output, indeed, but no catalyst. Furcal was and is a catalyst, and had he been on that team, the Braves would’ve won the division again. “Bobby’s…”—your screen name’s not funny, similar to how the anti-Furman Bisher comments weren’t funny. It’s clear why an AJC print employee once told me proudly that it and the online version were separate.