Braves

By BBFCFM

August 22, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

man, we suck.

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Great song choice, DOB.

By frito braves

August 22, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

First??

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Good blog.

Consistent with comments folks on here have been making for several months now.

While Bobby Cox may have had a beautiful thing going with this team for over a decade and a half, it is evident that whatever he was doing just isn’t clicking with some of these players, whether that be due to Cox, or do to the players, probably a little of both.

When JD Drew hurt himself swimming in 2004, and refused to play for a few days, all it took was a little nudge from Chipper Jones to get Drew’s head right - and he had a career year.

That doesn’t seem to work anymore, and it is perhaps due to there being way too many “JD Drew’s” on the team, at least in terms of attitude (I’d take his performance).

Change must come, and sadly, for Mr. Cox, it may be too late to make the player personnel changes that are needed to give him any chance at tasting success again before he retires.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it now, while I have often disagreed with Bobby’s approach to the game, I like him, and I want to see him win. He is a legend and a huge reason for why the Braves became what they were for so many years.

As grim as 2009 looks at the moment, it isn’t here yet; so, here’s hoping that a few things go our way for a change, over the next 8 - 14 months.

By Thrillhouse44

August 22, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Geez, so much for a pick-me-up. Kind of sad to read, but I appreciate your perspective. If the clubhouse is beginning to show tension, how is letting go of Kotsay going to help matters? DOB, can you think of any recently retired Braves who would make a good bench coach that could help things out? I know the Philadelphia Eagles had Hugh Douglas on as an ambassador (or as he referred to it “Am Bad A— ador”) back in 2005. Would this help? Or is winning the main ingredient to a happy team?

By DAP

August 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

DOB wow. thanx for cluing us in on some of what is going on inside. id love to know exactly what you were talking about….i guess we will have to speculate which “baby braves” are trouble makers. we dont see the inside, but if there is a clubhouse cancer, i hope wren rips it out and gets rid of it, no matter who it is. almost scares me to say that.

By @#%!

August 22, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Excellent song. Bad team.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan thats fine, but we got millions coming off of payrole. different people have different figures, but were sure that its over $30mil. do we just not spend that? and if we do, how can we spend $30mil and not be a better team? we might trade a couple of guys (not chipper) like kelly, but we arent gonna get better prospects than the ones we have already. not ones that will be able to contribute in 2010.

if we are going to trade for prospects, the only guys it really makes sense to trade are kelly escobar andfrenchy, because these are the only guys that we have other players available to play for them. and you arent gonna get a ton for these guys.

no, what we do this year, is use the money we have avaiable to make this team better for 2009, and beyond that, when our young guys are about ready to take over.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

DOB

The scrutiny on Wren should have started last off season. Not sure if you saw this post from the last blog:

There’s a reason the Braves are 15 games behind the Mets. Nobody put a gun to Wren’s head and told him to put the season in the hands of two old starters, a suspect closer, an unproven middle infield, a injury prone CF’er and a single sided LF’er. The middle infielders will improve, as for the rest of them, they need to be replaced. Can’t blame Wren for Frenchy or Hudson but now they’re major problems too.

No way Wren gets a pass for what’s happened here. He went in with his eyes wide open. This team was constructed with unproven MLB full season talent at short, 2nd, left and closer. Two old men in the rotation and injury prone players in CF and third.

This can’t all be bad luck, can it? I mean you didn’t show that type of mercy when the Mets all stopped hitting and pitching at the same time at the end of last season - in that case it was the “toxic” clubhouse Willie and Minaya constructed.

By beki

August 22, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Two great song choices in a row;and, two nights in a row I went to bed before the game was over knowing we wouldn’t win. Chipper’s numbers and defense has deteriorated as well because of the “deer in the headlights” daze that has infected the infielders. Good grief!

By DAP

August 22, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

i bet julio franco would be a good manager/coach for this team. remember the mets young’uns bashing him when he left because he would get in thier face about stuff? maybe when TP takes over as manager, julio can be the hitting coach!

By David-ATL14

August 22, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Outstanding blog and song choice.

Here’s to Syd Barret also.

Always think of him when this song is present.

By David-ATL14

August 22, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Outstanding blog and song choice.

Here’s to Syd Barret also.

Always think of him when this song is present with such meloncholy.

By flange1

August 22, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the new blog.

Very well thought out intro that really takes into account the feelings of the fans.

Interesting to hear about the clubhouse.

As you alluded to yesterday, I think many changes are coming this winter from a coach and player perspective. It will be interesting to see who stays and who doesn’t.

There is talent in this group of players - more talent than we have seen lately. Maybe new blood will help the existing folks rise their level of play.

Should be fun to see how it plays out.

Have fun in St Louis!

By NCBravesFan

August 22, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

I would not have guessed that the Braves would see this sort of breakdown within the clubhouse. Makes you wonder if Cox regrets extending through 2009 back in the spring.

As it is, they are kinda stuck heading in to the offseason. The Braves would never fire Cox, and BC would probably never walk away after signing an extension so soon.

Meanwhile if you’re a FA this winter with clubs to choose from, do you really want to commit to the Braves long-term not knowing for sure who the manager is going to be after next year? (Not to mention looking at that W-L record after this year!)

It’s a mess any way you look at it. I’d love to think that the Braves could pull off some front office magic and put this back together by 2009, but I think 2010 is more realistic.

By JEB

August 22, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

“Attitude reflects leadership” (from Remember the Titans)

So, are we pointing fingers at the leadership of the team? (I think even DOB has gotten on this train).

Will Bobby Cox ride out the storm and walk through this transition with the team (2009)??

Stay tuned for more… “As the Braves Turns”

By fifthbusiness

August 22, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog. If I was the GM I would use September to tryout the kids and see who wants to play with a winning attitude. BC has alway gotten rid of players that would not play his way. With the injuries, it looks like he can’t weed any one out and keep a team on the field. Maybe they are waiting to trade them after the season and don’t want it to look like they have given up on them.

I would give Frenchy one more year to to prove this year was a fluke. Likewise Kelly has gone from not being able to turn a double play to being competent. He probablely deserves another year to see if he can improve.

I would not go after a ace with a six year deal, but rebuild like the Cardinals did with middle of the rotation talent for lower years.

Finally, DOB how much has loosing Leo and Pat Corales hurt the team? Maybe they need someone like Leo chewing on the pitchers to set the tone.

By Dosomething

August 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

DOB great article!!!!!!!!!

By rupert

August 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, respect what your saying and that you are saying it. I think that many of the young guys didn’t come up with the vets, like chipper did, and just don’t get it. Even when they were in the race they would take nights off. Now I guess there just off for the durration. This team does need an overhaul at a lot of key positions and in attitude (never thought I would be saying that).

I am not a fire cox guy. He writes his own ticket as far as I am concerned. That being said, he has definitely lost his edge and I think the losing has to beat him. This is not how he wanted to go out.

Pendleton is a great guy, but I think he has to be evaluated. The offense (consistency) is the reason for much of the struggles back when things mattered this year. He hasn’t really fixed showed the great results that say a Don Baylor did in his time here. Love tp, but at some point people have to be held accountbale. (players hit and players can be stubborn, a new vioice might help)

McDowell was having a good first half, but things have changed. I think his record is much worse than tp’s. mac has been the pitching coach the last three years and the staff has been medicore to awful. It is said he is good for young pitchers, but at some point you have to look at results.

Wren is getting more flack than he should. He has made a few trades that will look really good as time goes on. The tex deal was made too early for me, but Kotch is still young and should be judged on how he plays next year. This off-season will be when wren is judged.

Overall, I am not calling for all the coaches jobs, but atleast one should be reassigned or whatever you want to call it. I think this attitude change has a lot to do with accountability or the lack there of. How many times did we hear “well it’s just one game in april, june, july… just one series….we’ll win next time” the players are not accountable for their preformance. The coaches/management has been slow to act when players are struggling (jf). This organization needs to take a hard line with players and get accountablity back. Bring in some big time players with the money. Make some trades with players you don’t see in the organization’s future. Set it up for a good 5 year run. Braves baseball matters to a hell of a lot of people, and it needs to start mattering more to the players.

By Mark

August 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

As an avid fan who even hung in there until it was over last night this is painful. This team has hit rock bottom whether the fans want to admit it or not. Trades that were made (Tex) for instant impact have backfired….there is little in the way of pitching talent in the organization….the young guns we thought were going to make an impact a few years ago have mostly fizzled. Frency is at a cross roads in his career only a couple of years in. Either he bounces back next year or he’s done in a Braves uni. The players make stupid mistakes over and over and are playing uninspired. It’s just awful to watch.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

BTW Braves fans. Me thinks DOB is prepping you for the bomb that is coming to your team.

Between the lines last 24 hours:

He hinted Cox may not be back.

Dissension in the clubhouse.

Veteran significant party (coach and/or players) voicing org/clubhouse not as good as it used to be.

I think you can connect the dots.

When Cox didn’t even budge to argue that call at first in the top of the 9th last night I became convinced he’s done. This is a guy who would argue for calls on an intentional walk and he doesn’t flinch when his team is scratching and clawing to save face against their hated rivals?

This team is rotting from the head down folks.

By JIM

August 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Welcome to ATLANTA…Home of the Braves, who play hard (when they feel like it) and respect opponents with pure professionalism. (If I hear “he’s one of the best pitchers in the league, you just have to tip your cap to him” one more time, I’m going to freak out. They ALL CAN’T BE the best pitcher in the league.)

Also, “our guy pitched well, except for the inning that he gave up 5 runs”. Well that means he DID NOT PITCH WELL. You can’t just look at the good parts and forget the bad parts. I mean, it’s every night with these guys. The same excuses. I’m so sick of it I could type forever, but I just can’t find the words that would express how I feel (not any words that can be posted without being edited, anyway). Here’s to 2009, when we get to go through this all over again. ATLANTA, GET READY TO “TIP YOUR CAP” for a few more years.

By Renegator

August 22, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I mean, you have to figure that the players are tired of the same guys letting the team down night in and night out - Johnson, Francoeur, Boyer, etc.

At some point its going to come to a head and we’ll have a dugout fight like some other teams have had recently. Where one guy mouths off to another and they get a little shoving match going…

By JekyllJohn

August 22, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Anyone else find it interesting that the Braves seemingly falling completely apart mirrors what happened in Kansas City after Schuerholz left them as well?

By Lew

August 22, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Can’t argue with anything Dennis, er David O’Brien just ranted about. It’s as bad as it’s been since the late 80’s, for sure. It should be interesting to see how the House Wren operates. If he can keep pulling off moves like he did with Jurrjens, Ohman and Infante, maybe life will improve to the point of contention by 2010. We DO have some impressive kids like JJJ, JoJo, Morton, Schafer, Hanson and others.

Brent a-From the last blog-The BBQ place was called Finkerman’s and is now a Continental Cuisine restaurant. They did have some decent BBQ, but really didn’t understand BBQ like we Denizens here on the blog understand it.. Sounds like you were in the same Coffee shop, too.

Chop Chop-There’s several Braves’ fans living in New England-I even had dinner with Jason In Maine when we went down to Orlando for Spring Training. For some odd reason, no one gives me any grief up here for wearing Braves’ T shirts. It’s kind of like they still think the Braves are in Boston. I don’t know how many times older Denizens of Northern New England will look at my shirt and remark “I remember when Mathews and Spahn were with the team.” Vermont is a unique place-no doubt.

By AllbarnBlows

August 22, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, I have to disagree with something you said. You mentioned that most Braves fans would like to see the first-round losses of recent seasons, compared to the horrible season the Braves are having this year. I’m not sure about that. I for one would rather see them stink the joint up, as they’re doing now, rather than seeing them once again lose in the first round, or even the NLCS, or even the World Series.

I don’t want to see the Braves in the playoffs again if they’re going to fall short of the World Series. Yes, the 14 consecutive division titles were nice, but they weren’t that great considering they won only one World Series in that time. I had my heart crushed too many times during that 1991-2005 time period, and I don’t ever want to go through that again.

By Tom

August 22, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You hit it on the head: 1) There is something wrong with this team beyond what happens between the lines (and that is bad enough, my friends) 2) Frank Wren has a long road ahead of him in the offseason 3) The power shortage this team has shown is beyond dreadful.

I just wonder if it CAN be fixed in one offseason. One or two impact outfielders, one or two impact starting pitchers, an impact middle infielder. That’s a lot to try to work into place in eight months.

And then we are STILL counting on some of the young pitchers to get it done.

My buddy and I have a word we use to describe this team — Torrible. They are worse than terrible and more horrific than horrible.

And who’s to say that Bobby Cox doesn’t say “To hell with it.”? I mean this deck he has been handed is pretty bad. Why stick around and manage a group of slappies like this to another third or fourth-place finish?

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Anders, you can’t realistially say that Wren “can’t get a pass for what’s happened here” (paraphrasing slightly). For Hampton, sure. Kotsay, sure. Frenchy? No. Soriano? No way. Glavine? Dude’s never been DL’ed before this season. Old, but durable nonetheless.

As for “this team was constructed with unproven MLB full season talent at SS, 2B, left and closer.” Left field I’ll give you. But Escobar’s top prospect status nonwithstanding, he was excellent for 4 out of the six months last season. That’s close enough to a full year for me. Soriano was awesome last year, and Gonzo was fantastic before he got hurt. Bad argument there. And don’t forget Kelly Johnson’s full season line of .276/.375/.457 with a .285 EqA. I’d say that’s a pretty darn good full season.

Sorry, but most of this season’s misery is due to a mediocre season from Kelly, a terrible year from Jeff, having to use a hurt Escobar a lot, and tons of injuries (some predictable, others unforseen, i.e. Huddy, BMAC, Diaz, Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Glavine, et al). Had we seen duplicates of their 2007 seasons from Yunel, Francoeur and Kelly and few injuries, there would be a whole different vibe on this blog right now.

By crimedogrules

August 22, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

DAP, Why is TP the heir-apparent to Bobby Cox? Someone from a failed managemnet system cant be the answer, nobody is asking Cheney to run for President. Could you imagine— fire them all and do it before we call up the kids on 9/1. No sense them getting such a strong taste of losing and a lack of giving a crap

By Anders

August 22, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

How about Buck Showalter managing the Braves? He’s has a real good proven track record with young players.

Plus when you want to win the WS all you have to do is can him.

In all seriousness I think he’d be a good fit. Bit of a control freak, but that’s what young guys need.

By TURTSNAP

August 22, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Depressing indeed. I just shook my head last night after the great Prado play, but Ohman’s lapse in thinking, and then the Infante play. I don’t fault Infante too much though, the guy is giving it all he can, and he looked in disbelief walking off the field. So much needs to be done to correct things for 2009. I personally hope that Kelly is gone. There are a lot of Kelly lovers on this blog, but the guy is mediocre at best. I have fallen out of favor with Frenchy as well. I see too much AJ in him. Escobar has disappointed me this year as well, although I think his power numbers are diminished because of a nagging shoulder, but his tendency to argue with the umpires has got to stop. All I can say is I hope there are some major shakeups during the offseason.

By David-ATL14

August 22, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double post and even more regret about the misspelling of a Rock Legend’s moniker.

Once again Here’s to You Keith(Syd)Barrett as the song so eloquently states

Wish You Were Here

Indeed!

By Original Jon

August 22, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

OK guys and gals, here me out, I know that this has probably been said a million times, so here goes a million and 1. The last time the Braves won the division was in 2005, when Leo Mazzone was our pitching coach. Now, I am not saying because he was our pitching coach is the reason we won the division, but maybe, just maybe, he was Bobby’s good luck charm. We should get Leo back in some form or another, not necessarily the pitching coach, but pay him to sit in the dugout and be a charm for Bobby, lol. maybe not, but it is a strange coincidence.

By Big Easy

August 22, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Best song choice I’ve ever seen on the blog, DOB. Of course, that could be because I am a huge Floyd-head, but still….

~E~

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, others: I tried to be careful not to overstate it as a “breakdown” in the clubhouse. It’s all relative. Other teams have far more problems. But just not used to any sort of divisiveness or tension in the Braves clubhouse. Again, winning has a way of curing ills. But I do notice a different vibe from some of these Braves, especially those who’ve not been with the team too long.

By Renegator

August 22, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

uh oh DOB

rupert’s post at 4:34 talks about accountibility. Better let him know what a ridiculous notion that is…

rupert

I talked about accountibility all day yesterday and was ridiculed severly for it. I agree with you that there needs to be some for the coaches/manager but apparently no one else here does…

By Catfish

August 22, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Dave, Nice article, but you forgot to mention perhaps the weakest area of the team. The Bullpen. The injuries to Soriano and Moylan destroyed the Braves ability to win close games especially on the road. Also, add Bobby Cox’s stubborness in the way some of them are used, and it is a formula for failure.

Jeff Bennett’s control is not good enough to pitch middle relief. He has to be bailed out almost every time he is in the game. And he has trouble with LHs.

Blaine Boyer cannot get LH batters out.

They need Jorge Campillo back in the bullpen again since he gets out LH bats as well as he does RH bats.

Tommy Hanson has to be getting close at AA, so why not bring him up and use Campillo in the pen again.

By Einstein

August 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

I just posted on last night’s DOB blog, but the jist was: hasn’t displayed the fundamental skills of a good minor league team…bunting, hitting to the opposite field, defensive positioning, etc.; however, they are very highly paid. 2. The righty/lefty pitching match-up wears out your bullpen. (Who other than BC still adheres to this philosophy? LaSorda, Weaver, Dusty Baker?) Well, who’s fault is it? I know some of the more “cerebral bloggers” will diss anything that disagrees with their personal opinion, but don’t you think it’s time to field a team without old icons, has-beens, washed-ups, never-was, and not readys. Then, we can have a team that trys, and that we can get behind. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results just doesn’t work. And, the thinking that got us here won’t get us out of here. Peace.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

sways and holds lighter up

By Tomas

August 22, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

I don’t want to see Kelly at second base again. Especially when you have infante, and prado in your club. If Kelly wants to play use him as a pinch hitter or in some starts at leftfield. His range makes the Braves so vulnerable at that position, that is why delgado so many hits agaist the braves.

By Lennie G

August 22, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

If Hudson is going to miss most if not all of next season, would it be safe to assume that insurance would cover a portion of his salary (ala Hampton) thus the Braves would have slightly more to spend?

By Bobby's Cox

August 22, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

As it is, they are kinda stuck heading in to the offseason. The Braves would never fire Cox, and BC would probably never walk away after signing an extension so soon.

I think Cox would walk away.

Since DOB brought it up last blog, I’ve been thinking about it. Cox is the guy that would leave the money on the table. He’s never cared about his salary, and has said in the past it’s the players that deserve to get paid.

I think the feelings would be mutual. Cox is old and wouldn’t want another season like this one. I’m sure he thought Frenchy & KJ would turn the corner this year when he signed the extension, as well as the pitching staff holding up.

When Wren and Cox meet at the conclusion of this season and assess the team for next year, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cox resign and go into an advisory role if the team decided to pass on the poor free agent class and make ‘09 a rebuilding year.

Cox would embrace a rebuilding year because he’s done it before, but at the same time, my hunch tells me he’d pass on it to at this stage in his career. Just wouldn’t surprise me. It might be want everyone wants, including Cox and myself.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

mcfann go fly a kite. seriously.

Haha! Good one, DAP!

We were playin’ some catch…Let me just say I tried to backhand a few pitches in the dirt in such a way that would have Joe Simpson yelling at me!

: >

Thanks for the new blog, Chief! Great job! 25-9? Eesh…Well, if the Rockies could do it in ‘07…(OK, don’t jump on me! I was…”kidding”…)

Only Brian McCann has met or surpassed all expectations.

Definitely surpassed mine…

By McFann ;Ô;

August 22, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Hit, Heap, Hit!—

Thank you for he name change!

It really works…

; )

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

August 22, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

What a fitting song choice: Written by Waters and Gilmour (Gilmour performed the vocals.) The song not only refers to Barrett, but also how the band became almost robotic after the fame and glory of Dark Side of the Moon. In essence they were basically just going through the motions wishing they were their old selves again, which seems to be the case with the Braves in the past month.

It has been written that an unidentified bald man showed up in the studio during the WYWH sessions, acting peculiarly: (i.e. brushing his teeth and jumping up and down, etc.) After a while they realized is was Syd. They had not had contact with him for several years and he just happened to pop up during that particular album,…a tribute to him. Strange.

By NCBravesFan

August 22, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

DOB - thanks … a bad choice of words on my part, since the real issue that I was addressing was the on-field play and the dynamics of rebuilding with a manager who is not likely to be around past 2009.

By Tom

August 22, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

AllBarnBlows … you are an idiot. An Alabama idiot at that, which explains a lot.

So you would rather be one of the NL’s whipping boys than actually win 80-90 games a year and make it to the playoffs? Only one team wins the World Series each year — in case you hadn’t heard.

We would all love to count more WS titles over the 14 seasons of glory. But it didn’t happen. Get over it.

Saying you’d rather lose than suffer through the ignominy of actually losing in the playoffs is ridiculous. Guess if Bama loses to Clemson next week, you’ll put the shakers and Bear cap away for another year, too.

By Andy k.

August 22, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

My 2009 Atlanta Braves Lineup/25 Man Roster:

1.C.C. Sabathia 2.Jair Jurrjens 3.Mike Hampton (IF HEALTHY/GOOD) 4.Charlie Morton/Jorge Campillo 5.Tom Glavine

1.Jordan Schafer-CF 2.Yunel Escobar-SS 3.Chipper Jones-3B 4.Brian McCann-C 5.Pat Burrell-LF 6.Casey Kotchman-1B 7.Jeff Francoeur-RF 8.Martin Prado/Omar Infante-2B 9.Pitcher

Bench: Clint Sammons-C Right-Handed Infielder with Power???? Prado/Infante-INF/OF Mark Kotsay-OF/1B (Get him to stay, mentor Schafer.) Gregor Blanco-OF

Bullpen: Mike Gonzalez-Closer Will Ohman-Set Up Peter Moylan-Set Up Blaine Boyer John Smoltz Jeff Bennett-Long Relief Vladimir Nunez (If Campillo Starts) Campillo (If Morton Starts)

If Morton doesn’t win the job in ST, he’s #1 in Gwinnett. Makes the Braves less dependable on Smoltz/Glavine, Burrell takes pressure of Frenchy. Bullpen is iffy, but capable, and could pay dividends. Not even counting on Soriano right now, doesn’t seem too enthusiastic about pitching/getting healthy. And of course, acquire an infielder with power to come off the bench. Bring Schafer up this year to get him ahead of the game in experience at the big-league level. Completely get rif of Matt Diaz, as he’s been worthless this year, or put him in the Gwinnett Braves OF.

By Blaine Boyer is a sophisticated tub of goo

August 22, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

While he was in New York, Blaine Boyer made time for some cultural activities.

First, he visited the Goo-genheim museum and then he stopped by the Metropolitan to see some works by Vincent Van Goo.

By lewie

August 22, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

from the roots song “you got me”

things fall apart and tend to shatter

By Jeff R

August 22, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

An excellent analysis, DOB. The team’s lack of professionalism is the most disturbing development of all. Adversity is a true test. Pros play to the max, even when the team isn’t performing.

Along with a player’s talent and skill set, Wren needs to evaluate maturity and character. I’d rather have a player with slightly lesser talent who gives all-out every night than a talented player giving a half effort.

Wren needs to look at the Braves very critically during the off-season. McCann, Jurrjens and, perhaps, Escobar, may make the no trade list (Chipper’s got his contract), but I think he’s got to be open to restructing the team. Priority is the rotation; then the up-the-middle defense; and then acquiring a power hitter. he needs to move, as is possible, the under-performers and those who aren’t likely to hit their potential.

By A Perturbed Observer

August 22, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Not when there are two just-released, well-reviewed movies starring the ravishing Penelope Cruz (OK, that was kind of random, but she just does it for me).

DOB say it ain’t so. Please.

Penelope Cruz = skank city

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

I could deal with a first-round exit from the playoffs if it occurs after the Braves miss the postseason for a while (a few more years would be required, I think). That way, a postseason appearance might feel like the start of something more. It might feel new or something. Hell, I don’t know.

When the Braves kept getting knocked out in the first round, it wasn’t heart-breaking. It was just boring. (Postseason baseball shouldn’t be boring, right? The Braves made it boring by losing.) They’d already slipped to the point where they weren’t World Series contenders, so they were basically playing out the string. That they managed to “play out the string” by making the playoffs four years in a row (2002-05) is damn impressive, but the team wasn’t the same. Any Braves fan with an objective thought in his mind knew that.

What has followed is the typical end of a great run in sports. The people in control lose their edge and get out while they still can (Schuerholz is giving Bobby the light to see the handwriting on the wall), leaving their replacements (good luck, Wren and Bobby’s successor!) to clean up the mess and surmount the powerful current dragging the club down into the abyss. The Braves do not have to sink so low, but for many years the team was that low.

The old days are making a comeback.

It’s, like, soooooo retro.

By TheCutMan

August 22, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

I have to say, Mr. O’Brien, that your comments are genuinely addressing the plight and possible remedies for this forgettable season.

I’d like to see more of this from you in the days and weeks ahead. Meantime, well done.

By The Secret Truth

August 22, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

The song “Wish You were here” is obviously about Frank Wren. Look at the lyrics:

Did they get you to trade

Your heroes for ghosts?

Hot ashes for trees?

Hot air for a cool breeze?

Cold comfort for change?

Did you exchange

A walk on part in the war,

For a lead role in a cage?

By Uncle Johnny

August 22, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to bring up Jordan Schaeffer. Period.

The Braves need to go out and recover Willie Harris.

The Braves need a hitting atud at first base.

They need to go out and sign a couple of the top line pitchers and maybe a decent shortstop.

By New York Sucks

August 22, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Anders, solid post at 4:23 p.m. It is odd in hindsight but it seems Wren (and the rest of us) should have known. The injuries (and poor play) were drastic and incomprehensible this season, but take each one individually and they don’t seem all that surprising.

Wren assembled a house of cards in a cyclone and hoped for the best. Granted, this house of cards was spectacular and even had some glue, we shouldn’t be too surprised that it came tumbling down.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris hit his 11th homer today

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Cuz I’m a poet, don’t you know it?

And the wind, you can blow it.

Cuz I’m Mister Dylan the King

And I’m free as a bird on the wing.

• Syd Barrett, Bob Dylan Blues

Classic stuff from a crazy diamond.

By Josh

August 22, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Andy

I like the idea of bringing in Burrell. He provides what the Braves need most: Right-handed power. Most pundits have him signing a 4 year deal in the $55-$65MM range, which seems like a deal the Braves could afford. It would also be nice having another Mets killer to compliment Chipper!

By bravesedandconfused

August 22, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

how bout this for a wake-up call:

you want to play like the 80’s? you can look like the 80’s. here’s your new red-white and blue Braves uni with a baby-blue cap for home and and head-to-toe baby blue look for the road. enjoy it fellas. you want to stop wearing them…start winning again.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 22, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry to sound harsh here, but people who complain about the Braves winning only one World Series need to get over it. Dang, I’d hate to hear the rants if they hadn’t won any…

Be happy they have the one! I wasn’t old when it happened to have memories of it now, and to be honest, I’d be happy just to see them play in the World Series—just in the play-offs!

I think a lot of people would take a play-off spot over this mess…I understand where you’re coming from to say you’d rather they didn’t go than to see them lose in the first round, but I have to disagree.

If the Braves played in the World Series and lost, yes I’d be crushed for a few days after the fact (maybe a couple weeks if they lost because of, well, you know), but sheesh, couldn’t we just be happy they went? (Easy for me to say now, huh?)

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Jeff R McCann, Jurrjens and, perhaps, Escobar, may make the no trade list (Chipper’s got his contract)

McCann has a contract, too!

By jmart1951

August 22, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

I believe that Cox will be forced out (behind the scenes) over the winter. His style of management is passe’. His bullpen management is probally the worst in baseball. His ability to get his players to do the basic fundamentals of the game is atroscious. I blame him for the team’s inability to lay down a bunt. You either learn how to bunt or you ride the pines. You practice bunting until your hands bleed. You hold players accountable for their performance. That’s not Cox’s style. His poor game management skills were hidden for years because of the big 3 pitchers and the ability to pay more (on a relative basis) for players under Ted Turner. Cox’s weaknesses now cost the team games (my guess - 5 to 6 games per year). I know, how can anyone say that he cost “x” number of games per year. It hypothetical but aren’t there times when you are screaming at your TV for Cox to make some move or NOT to make some move. Not that we are all great coaches but Cox doesn’t even make the obvious moves on a consistent basis anymore. DOB: thanks for the venue to vent. I feel much better now.

By Dozer

August 22, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Wake up everybody - this didnt happen overnight. You’re looking at the culmination of several things - cheapo spending habits ($80M payroll for how long?), overrated players, managerial incompetence (how long was Andruw & Javy fat? Francouer?, 1-run losses?), GM blunders (Tex for 5 prospects when you knew he was out of your price range?), consistent acquisition of injury-prone players because they’re cheap (Soriaono, Kotsay, Hampton, Gonzalez). Yes - there was some bad luck with injuries, but most of them (Chipper, Hampton, Gonzolez, Kotsay, Soriano) could have been predicted. This franchise is living off its reputation with a more than willing accomplice in the Atlanta media. There are probably 10 teams with better young talent than the Braves. This franchise has fallen off the table - the injury spin is already in play. Bottom line - this winter will tell you what ownership is really about - maybe somebody can wake Bobby up & inspire some real hunger from top to bottom……..

By Bobby's Cox

August 22, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Wren’s done a pretty good job.

Good Moves

He landed Jurrjens for a fading Renteria.

The Infante and Ohman trade was superb.

He traded Anderson for Villareal, who if the Braves end up trading, will net them a much better player than they had in Villareal and possibly Anderson himself.

Questionable moves:

Kotsay for Devine. Devine’s injury this year makes this questionable. Otherwise, trading a young, hard-throwing reliever for a stop-gap, injury-prone center fielder after admitting Anderson was ML ready, makes this a bad move. I’m not so sure Anderson sitting all year in the minors has more to do with Cox than Wren, which makes me believe the Braves making the trade for Kotsay was more Cox’s comfort of having a veteran patrol CF than a rookie leadoff hitter who can steal bases. As a CSUF alumni, I like the deal, but as a braves fan, i cringe at it. Blanco’s done pretty damn well, but Anderson probably should’ve been the man all along, if anything for defense and to inject speed into the lineup.

Trading for Kotchman. Not to rag on Kotchman, but pulling the deal a day early may have cost the braves. Then again, the Red Sox trading away Manny may have made the Angels reluctant to make the deal, even though the Ramirez deal was done at the deadline. This trade still stands as questionable, even though most of this has to do with Scherholz trading for Tex in the first place. I still think Wren should have gotten the Dodgers more involved. Maybe the fact that Coletti was on the ropes and the Dodgers got disgusted with Boras clients threw off talks. But, the Dodgers have pieces the Braves need, and vice versa. Kent won’t be back and the Dodgers needed a power bat. Upping the ante to include KJ or Prado for Loney may have made the Dodgers bite at Tex. But netting Kotchman and still reserving KJ and Prado for offseason dealings is satisfactory.

Bad moves:

Signing Glavine. Considering Glavine has never been hurt before and the Brave desperatly needing innings from starters after last season, this seemed like a good signing. However, considering Glavine lost velocity last year, Smotlz’s constant shoulder problems, Chuck James’ arm issues, Hampton, an unproven rookie in Jurrjens, then this should have been seen as a more risky signing than originally thought. I’m not convinced this was more of a PR move than anything else.

Soriano. The signing was questionable, but the Braves needed bullpen help. Isn’t it about time the Braves require iodine MRI’s when signing players? Maybe this is something Wren learns, as long as considering age when making future deals.

Overall, nice job.

By MGL

August 22, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

McFann - For you from Chop-n-change….

“But enough about the two of them. Today, I want to talk about how amazing Brian McCann has been. It probably will not surprise you to hear that he is one of the greatest 24-year old catchers ever. What may surprise you is to hear how little competition he has.

Among all catchers 24 and younger, there have only been 11 seasons in history of an OPS+ of 140 or better; McCann has two of them, 2006 and 2008. Torre has two more, as do Rudy York and Johnny Bench; no other catcher has more than one. (The other catchers on the list: Carlton Fisk, Mike Piazza, Joe Mauer, and William Fischer.) Since McCann was born in 1984, there have only been 4 such seasons, and he owns half of them.

Moreover, there are only 4 catchers who have ever played 400 games before turning 25 and produced an OPS+ of 122 or better: Joe Torre, Joe Mauer, Johnny Bench, and McCann. In fact, since McCann was born in 1984, there have only been 19 players who have played 400 games before turning 25 and put up an OPS+ of 122 or better, and you’ve heard of all of them: Albert Pujols, Ken Griffey, Will Clark, Vladimir Guerrero, Miguel Cabrera, John Olerud, David Wright, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Hanley Ramirez, Jose Canseco, Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn, Juan Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, Grady Sizemore, Scott Rolen, and Barry Bonds.

Those are Brian’s peers.

Unfortunately, he doesn’t have too many teammates right now.”

By Bobby's Cox

August 22, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Be happy they have the one! I wasn’t old when it happened to have memories of it now, and to be honest, I’d be happy just to see them play in the World Series—just in the play-offs!

McFann, it was a glorious day. Maybe the feeling you get when your favorite sports team wins it all is what’s driving the blog into this madness. It’s certainly a feeling you want to have again. Doesn’t look like it will happen anytime soon, but miracles do happen.

Gotta love playoff baseball, especially when it features your team. As they say, there’s always next year, or worse….being a Cubs fan.

By Jeff R

August 22, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Chop, Chop, good read on the situation. The franchise may not truly turn itself around until there’s new ownership - which there will be, once this absurd 5-year ownership requirement that Liberty Media is operating under expires.

Anyone who knows Braves history, knows that the franchise has performed best with an individual owner. In Milwaukee, it was a guy named Lou Perni (sp); and, of course, in Atlanta, Ted Turner resurrected a flat-lining team.

Of course, no need for the Braves to tank. Liberty Media needs to loosen the purse strings. Wren has to acknowledge that ‘05 freshman class (mostly) didn’t pan out and start an agressive restructuring. Given that the draft was so weighted to pitching, I think management gets that the thing that made the 90s Braves great needs to be re-emphasized.

There are a few talented younger players on the Braves (Jurrjens, McCann, Escobar) and some coming along in the farm system (Hanson, Freeman, Schaffer). So all is not lost.

But if Wren falls prey to the thinking that this club can just be patched to be competitive again, I don’t think he’ll be GMing the team too far in the future.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 22, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

MGL—

Thanks!! That’s great stuff right there!

Dang…Who’da thunk?

Thanks again!

By BT

August 22, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Great article DOB. You are in a tough spot in order to keep your relationship with the Braves (team, coaches and management)and still be able to give the fans some idea of what is going on! This is the hardest hitting reality check that we have seen in many years. Yes, we need pitchers, hard hitting outfielders etc. but it sounds like we desparately need leadership in the clubhouse. The Braves have been fairly successful for years without “Rah rah, butt kicking” leadership for years (other than Bobby’s go get em kid attitude. Where the heck is any nucleus of leadership? A young player probably is not going to hear or take much direction/leadership from Smoltz or Glavine since it is not even a sure thing they will be with the team next year. Chipper looks like he has been emotionally run over by a truck. Kotsay is a rental, McCann is quiet, Jeff F is in never never land. I repeat do we have any nucleus of on the field or in the clubhouse leadership? \

By NYJay

August 22, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure that CC or Burrell would want to play for the Braves. The Mets will have a ton of dollars to spend and they won’t get CC from the grasp of the Yankees.

The Yankee rotation imploded this year with injuries but Hughes and Kennedy were putrid even before the injuries. After one season of going with the kids and not making the playoffs, after watching Santana not lose a game for the Mets in two months,(when he shouldv’e been a Yankee at the cost of the demoted Melky Cabrera and the afore mentioned bust Ian Kennedy), the Yankee dollar will be in full force.

The Braves need to go international. Huge dollars but atleast they can control some up and coming players from outside the U.S., Spend extra on prospects and break the slotting system to get the best young talent available.

The Braves should be the San Antonio Spurs of baseball. Especially now with the Mets moving into a new stadium that would make the franchise worth nearly a billion dollars.

The problem is that no one knows what Wrens’ plan is. The Braves should be rebuilding going forward and not trying to spend limited funds to contend with the wrong mix of players.

That is what kept the Mets from contending sooner and separating from the pack these past years. Imagine if the Mets didn’t trade Kazmir and Jason Bay.

By ben

August 22, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Good article and you are right on most of the points mentioned. However, I didn’t see anything about Bobby Cox at the helm or any of the coaches. How do you feel about any changes on the staff?

By Random

August 22, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Okay, I heard some of DOB’s gig on 680.

So, DOB, my question to you is — of those players who you’ve seen enough evidence that makes you think the Braves should “cut their losses” with them (based on “body language”, attitude, etc) — no, I’m not gonna ask you to name names — what I want to know is, as far as you know, has Braves management picked up on these same tell-tale signs and do they have the same opinion as you?

That is, does Braves management also have in its multifarious mind the names of some players for whom it’s time to “cut their losses”?

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Reports from friends of the Maddux family say that Greg wants to pitch next year. If we can give him the run support, I’d say it’s not a bad idea. He’s a control pitcher, and all he needs is a decent margin of runs to work with. Plus, it could be a “last hurrah” for the 3, Smoltz, Glav, Mad Dog, all go out as Braves in 09.

Then the Rotation would look like this: assuming we get a big name:

1:C.C. Sabathia/Sheets/Dempster 2:Jurrjjens 3:Hampton 4:Maddux 5:Glavine Not horrible…guarenteed a win at least 2 of 5 days.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox it was a glorious day. Maybe the feeling you get when your favorite sports team wins it all is what’s driving the blog into this madness.

Hmm…Maybe that’s why I haven’t “gone mad”—I’ve never had that feeling!

; > Just kidding…I have gone a little mad…

Play-off baseball is fun…But I don’t know if I’m gonna get too big a kick out of the NL play-offs this year—not if the teams are the Cubs, the D-Backs, the Mets/Fillies and the Brewers (well, OK, I’ll pull for the Brewers, I guess).

Yes, miracles do happen…Ah, and it’s always fun to think about…

As they say, there’s always next year, or worse….being a Cubs fan.

Haha! After being surrounded by the most annoying Cubs fans, I concur…

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Anyone know the last year we didn’t have a player Save atleast 10 games?

I’ll give a dollar if you can name the year and the team leader in saves without googling it (like I had to)

By StingerSplash

August 22, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Maybe Metallica’s “Sad But True” would have been an appropriate choice to accompany today’s blog. Nothing wrong with some Floyd, though. David Gilmour’s “There’s No Way Out of Here” would have sufficed as well.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Hey hey! Grove got his 100 strikeout of the year!

But I ain’t gonna gloat, seein’ as how that ALWAYS comes back to haunt me…

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Ah, I really dislike Bobby Cox and can’t wait to issue him a good riddance!

However, I could really care less about the clubhouse. (Regardless of whether Cox is going around giving free massages or not.) See, you don’t win crap for a tidy clubhouse.. So, it doesn’t matter to me.

With that said, of course these Braves’ have underperformed. But, Cox (and him alone) has cost us many, many, games with his poor decision making. Coupled with that fact he trots the same guys out there no matter how they’ve been preforming. Seriously, what kind of message does it send when outright failure on a regular basis is rewarded?

The bottom line: Cox’s formula is crap and will not ever work again. I think of this sport as a “what have you done for me lately” (as in this year) overall stats really don’t matter unless you’re trying to get a raise or going into the hall of fame.

Save the past and show me the future!

By nolie

August 22, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

I haven’t been able to read everything here in the last few days, so if this was already posted I apologize.

Baseball America Prospect Q&A: JORDAN SCHAFER

Braves outfielder speaks about 50-game suspension

By Ben Badler August 21, 2008

After a breakout season last year, Braves center fielder Jordan Schafer ranked as the top prospect in the organization and the No. 25 overall prospect in baseball. But since spring training, Schafer’s life changed. Schafer played in four games in April for Double-A Mississippi, then was suspended for 50 games for an HGH-related infraction. He returned to the field on June 2, but the 21-year-old Schafer had slumped to a .209/.348/.368 batting line by June 23.

Since then, however, Schafer has taken off. The toolsy center fielder has batted .357/.400/.622 in 105 plate appearances since June 24, bringing his season numbers up to .269/.369/.466 in 72 games. That includes Monday’s performance, when Schafer went 3-for-5 and hit two home runs at Carolina, Schafer’s second multi-homer game of the year.

“For the first time for about the last, I don’t know, three weeks now, months now, I finally feel like my mind’s clear,” Schafer said after Monday’s game. “I really didn’t enjoy coming to the field before. It was just stressful. I didn’t want to hear anything about what happened. I just really dreaded coming to the field. For the first time, I’ve been able to talk about it and just put it behind me and get it out of the way. It’s really helpful with us winning—it’s helped me to enjoy coming back to the field and have fun again playing the game.”

Schafer spoke before Tuesday’s game at Carolina in depth about his suspension, his season, his mental struggles and public misconceptions about him and his situation.

Ben Badler: Let’s go back … to the Year 2000. You were featured in Baseball America that year as the top 13-year-old in the country. What did you think when you read that and how did that affect you?

Jordan Schafer Jordan Schafer: When I was 12, I think that’s like the first year they started doing it, when kids were 12, and (current Yankees prospect) Austin Jackson was in there as the No. 1 kid at 12. I told my dad when I was 13, “That’s what I want to do. That’s my goal this year.” So I went out, and every national tournament I went to, I played awesome. I pitched well, I hit well. At that time, it was like a big deal. Now when you look at it, it really doesn’t matter at all (laughs). What do you really care how good you are when you’re 13? But back then it was a huge deal. It was awesome.

BB: You were a third-rounder in 2005, played in the GCL, (low Class A) Rome in 2006, and then last year you really broke out. What do you attribute that success to?

JS: When I was in high school, all my focus was on pitching. I hit and I played center field in high school, but I didn’t do anything extra for hitting—I just went out and did whatever I did naturally. It was all my focus because I really felt, truthfully, that I was going to pitch. To this day, I told teams that it doesn’t matter which one I do—I don’t care. But truthfully, like inside, I had no confidence hitting and I wanted to pitch, but I just told teams, whatever, don’t matter. So going in I went straight to the GCL. I did all right, and then I struggled horribly. I had no confidence at all. And then I went and they moved me, I skipped (Rookie-level) Danville and I went to Rome and just mentally, I had no confidence at all because really I didn’t know what I was doing. Seriously, I really didn’t know what I was doing. I had that offseason and then I had that next offseason with me being able to buy that machine. That machine helped me tremendously.

BB: The Pro Batter (pitching simulator)?

JS: Yeah. That machine, I owe a lot of things to that machine. The machine gives you real game live pitching, otherwise you’re just gonna get BP and you’re just gonna get stuff like that. And then all my workouts were designed towards pitching and I had to switch them all towards hitting. Mentally I finally started to feel comfortable and started to believe in myself, like, “Hey, I can do this.” So going to Rome and being able to start off there so hot, I think that was huge, just for my psyche being able to go there and say, “Hey, I belong here. I can hit.” And then going to Myrtle Beach, it was just like a snowball effect. I was like, “Let’s go, I can do this, for real.” Then everything, going into Arizona (Fall League), going to spring training and then it’s like everything took a backfall with everything that happened. Everything the last year success-wise, people are gonna want to say their B.S. about he used this and this, and it has nothing to do with that. Mentally I believe I can hit. It’s the same thing this year. I’m the same exact player I was in the beginning—my swing, I mean, I did little things to switch it—but the only thing different between the beginning when I was struggling or last month when I struggled bad and this month when I’m doing good is mentally, I’m right. Mentally, I’m in the right mind frame where I believe when I go to the plate, every time I can get a hit. Nobody can get me out. It’s just a different mind frame.

BB: The stuff about converting from pitching and hitting to just pitching full-time is interesting. I know I’ve talked to other guys who have made the switch, like Sean Doolittle, an A’s prospect who was also a pitcher Virginia, and he said it’s hard to get enough reps as both a hitter and a pitcher to develop fully at each. Would you agree with that?

JS: I had no idea in my mind that I’d ever be drafted as a hitter. That never crossed my mind until my senior year when people were just like, “Hey, you can do it.” I was like, “What? Are you kidding me?” I was like, “No, I’m gonna pitch. Leave me alone.” Going through the repetitions, and really it’s just mentally—if you believe you can do something, chances are you’re going to be pretty successful at it.

BB: Do you believe you could get out there and be a pitcher if you put your mind to it?

JS: (laughs) I joke with them sometimes and tell them, “Hey, let me go out there and just throw an inning.” And they’re like, “No, no shot.” I’m like, “Come on, just let me throw one inning, just let me throw a bullpen.” They’re like, “Nah, there’s no way.”

BB: What are the differences you’ve noticed in the pitchers you faced at Myrtle Beach vs. what you’re seeing here in Mississippi?

JS: Of course the higher you go up, the more consistent they are. Once you get to a certain level, their stuff’s not going to be any better. Of course when you get to the big leagues and you face a guy like Beckett, Sabathia, a guy like that, their stuff is gonna be a little better than everyone else’s of course. But stuff-wise, their stuff’s not any better, they’re just more consistent and they can locate better. They can throw their offspeed pitches for strikes. A lot of the guys we face here are older guys. The guy we faced last night (Carolina righthander Willie Glen), he’s 30. When you’re 30, I hope you know how to pitch by then, know what I’m saying? They can see your weaknesses, they can move the ball in and out and they attack that.

BB: How would you describe your approach at the plate?

JS: I just try to find a good pitch to hit. I try to make adjustments during an at-bat. Like last night in my fourth at-bat I struck out against that lefty (Jeff Gogal). He threw me sliders and I didn’t make an adjustment quick enough. I needed to make an adjustment faster and in my next at-bat I made an adjustment and I got there. It’s just, really against lefties, my mind frame is just to stay on the ball, to make sure I don’t spin off those sliders. But mostly it’s just to find a good pitch to hit. You’re gonna be a lot better hitter if you swing at pitches. It’s really just finding a good pitch to hit.

BB: Since you’ve signed and developed into the hitter you are today, are there any ways you’ve changed since then, either offensively, defensively or with your baserunning?

JS: Yeah, I’ve changed things. You’ve got to learn what type of player you are. Like last night, I hit two home runs, but I’m not a guy that’s gonna stand up there and hit 40 home runs—that’s not me. I got lucky twice, the ball went out of the yard—that’s great. But really I’m a guy that’s going to drive the ball and have extra-base hits, doubles. You just have to learn what kind of player you are and go about it like that. If you get to the plate and you’ve got a guy on third and you try to do too much, you’re probably not going to be very successful. You’ve got to stay within yourself and play on your strengths.

BB: I’ll leave the floor open to you here to talk about your suspension this year, how that started, why you think were suspended, and how that series of events went for you.

JS: I really don’t have any idea what happened. I mean, I have probably more information that most people just because it was about me, but it’s a bad situation. I hope that by next year I really don’t get any more questions about this; I hope it’s more in the past. For me being able to move on mentally, just let that go in the past, it’s over with. People are gonna say what they want still. I still get crap all the time in the stands, people saying stuff, and I 100 percent understand that. What happened is unfortunate. It’s not what people think.

I didn’t do something illegal to make me better. I’m the same player I was last year. I didn’t do anything to increase my performance last year. If you ask anybody in the organization, ask the people that have been around me, they know how hard I work. They know my workouts in the offseason. (Former Braves and current Rangers shortstop) Elvis Andrus, he’s my best friend, he came and stayed with me in the offseason. (Myrtle Beach shortstop) Brandon Hicks came and stayed with me in the offseason, worked out with me, and our workouts are like 10 hours a day. Nobody matches those workouts. You can go anywhere. I mean, people work out for two hours a day and they think that’s a hard workout. It’s more than just going to the field—there’s so many different aspects that you have to improve on. If people want to know how I get better, if you want to come out in the offseason and watch me do my workouts, I’m more than happy—come out and watch me. Come out for a week, watch the whole a week. Anybody that wants to come out and watch, come out and watch, I have no problem with it, if they really want to know how I’ve gotten so much better.

BB: Can you go through the process where you found out that you were going to miss 50 games during the season?

JS: It’s hard to go from missing all that time to coming in and just jumping right back into things. I got at-bats down in Orlando (extended spring training), but it’s not the same at-bats, it’s 100 percent different, it’s totally different at-bats. You’re facing guys that are young and just want to throw the ball hard. They have no idea where the ball is going—it’s either right down the middle or at your head. Here, you’re going to face guys that know what they’re doing a little bit. They can throw their offspeed pitches for strikes. You see live pitching, but it’s not the same at all.

BB: So you were in Florida while you were suspended?

JS: Yeah. I went down to Orlando there to where we have spring training and I worked out with extended there so I could at least get at-bats and see live pitching and try to stay sharp.

BB: During the beginning of your suspension, what was your mind frame?

JS: My mind was all over the place, seriously. I had so many different thoughts. I didn’t even want to go back home. I switched both of my phones, both of my numbers, because I didn’t want to deal with anybody. As soon as it came out—I was at a casino actually—when it came out on ESPN, and as soon as it came out I got like 10 phone calls in the next five minutes. I was just like, “I can’t have this,” so I switched my numbers. I didn’t want to go home, I didn’t know what people were gonna think, I didn’t know what my family was gonna say. My dad’s like my best friend, I tell my dad everything. He knows everything that happened. He was 100 percent supportive of me. It’s really, it’s just a bad situation.

BB: It sounds like there might be some misconceptions that people have.

JS: Yeah, it’s not what people think at all, 100 percent. Like I said, I’m the same player that I was last year. I’m the same player, it’s just my mind frame from the beginning of the year to now, that’s the only thing that’s changed.

BB: So when people say things or write things like, “Jordan Schafer was suspended for using HGH,” is that accurate?

JS: People can write what they want. I see people write I got suspended for use. If you’ve got some kind of proof that I used stuff, I mean, someone please come show me. You can say allegedly or whatever you want. Truthfully, it’s so much over, I’d rather just put it in the past and just move on.

BB: Right, because there’s no test for HGH.

JS: Yeah, it’s pretty much BS. There’s not much else to say. I’d rather just put it in the past and try to move on.

BB: When you came back in June and you did start playing, what was your mind frame like at that point in terms of where your head was?

JS: My head hasn’t been right, just the whole time. When I came back, I felt like I put pressure on myself to prove to people that I’m still the same guy. So I put more pressure on myself. And then my mind when I started to struggle, my mind went out the window. I had so many different thoughts going through my mind, that I had no shot to succeed on the field.

BB: Going through all this, do you feel that you have changed or grown at all as a person?

JS: I really think—like this whole situation, it’s really unfortunate and it’s a bad situation—but I think it’s really gonna help me in the long run. Going through all this, it’s made me a stronger person, it’s made me realize people you can trust, people that were really my friends, people that were really there for me. I really don’t think after the suspension, the public embarrassment that I went through with that and then all the people talking behind my back and whatever people saying, me struggling at the beginning of the year, I really don’t think there’s anything else I can go through in this game that’s really going to affect me, that’s going to bother me. I think that’s really about the lowest point you can get.

BB: You talked about the fans on the road earlier. What is it like dealing with the nonsense that they give you.

JS: Like I said, they can say whatever. I had a guy last night, I just hit the second home run and I was on deck and had a guy chirping at me, “Oh, you’re gonna have a test after the game.” I mean, come on buddy, please, tell me something that I haven’t heard before and make me laugh and it’s OK. They just say stuff to say stuff. They pay their admission, they say what they want. I’m gonna do the same thing no matter what, I’m gonna go about my business the same way, I’m not going to say anything to them. You can’t really control what people say.

BB: Just wait till Thirsty Thursday. Has there been anyone in particular—you mentioned your dad and Elvis Andrus before—who’s helped you out through all of this?

JS: I’ve stayed in contact obviously with Elvis. I talk to Elvis basically every day. My dad has really been there for me, he’s really helped me through this a lot. I’ve had some good people in my corner who have really helped me through this.

BB: Where do you see yourself going from here?

JS: I’m just trying to finish out this year on a good note, hopefully win a championship here. I know I’m going to play winter ball. Whatever the Braves want me to do, I’ll do it. I’m not going to complain, I’m not going to say anything, I’m just going to go about my business, go play hard and whatever happens, happens.

By AdirondackDave

August 22, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

DOB — Who among the Braves’ free agents would get us a draft pick? Thanks.

By hydee

August 22, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

But I do notice a different vibe from some of these Braves, especially those who’ve not been with the team too long.

Ouch there is only one person I could think you are referring to, and he’s my absolute favorite! But what about Chipper?? I’ve not been a big follower of this team but even I can see he looks like he has totally packed it in and could care less to be on the field. Hope your not going to blame divisiveness only on the new guys, cause it sure looks like at least one “old” guy has given up on his team. At least Julian still LOOKS like he cares out there!

By Lew

August 22, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Javy fat? When exactly was that? Seems to me the guy was always so ripped that everyone thought he was juicing.

By Jake

August 22, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

This article is so true. I really don’t envy Frank Wren right now. I thought he did a good job last offseason. He got us starting pitching depth by trading for Jurrjens and signing Glavine to go along with Smoltz and Hudson. He signed Kotsay who we presumed would have a better average than Andruw, not as much power, but would be a veteran stopgap for that position. He brought in Will Ohman to be our main lefty till Gonzalez got back and he got Infante for the bench. The only thing I really worried about coming into the season was the bullpen. Not Soriano or Moylan so much but who would fill the other roles. You know that injuries are a part of the game so what happened with the pitching is nobody’s fault. So many injuries to the front end of the rotation and back end of the bullpen have kind of gave way to the problems we have now.

The lineup though has been another story. The injury to Kotsay hurt because he was hot at the time, but Diaz wasn’t doing as well as we had hoped before he got hurt. Needless to say Francoeur hasn’t been what we were counting on. Chipper was unbeleivable for the first few months of the season, but Teixeira’s slow start kind have equalled that out. McCann has been great(though he struggled recently) but he is the catcher and can’t be in the lineup everyday. Escobar has not been able to duplicate what Renteria was for us the last two years, but its just his first full year in the league and injuries have slowed him down a bit. His defense though has been an upgrade over Edgar. KJ has struggled this season with inconsitency and so-so defense. He is either really hot or really cold. Teixeira heated up for us right before he was traded, but Kotchman has struggled since he has been here. While it has been a field day for James Andrews when it comes to our pitching staff, the struggles of our offense are harder to pinpoint and figure out. Do you wait for those slumping to bust out and count on them next year or search for a replacement? What do you make of these last few weeks of the season where this team has played with a very lackluster approach? All the ifs ands or maybes that Wren has to consider are endless. If he figures it out by next year he will truly be a magician in my book.

By Del

August 22, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

For what it’s worth I offer some of my observations of the dugout area they show on TV. Have you noticed that Frenchy almost always is sitting alone, that B.Mac is never alone, that Kelly always has a sour look on his face, that Bobby almost never has any coaches around him, that TP is almost always leaning over the railing and never mentoring his pupils, I never see the bench coach positioning the fielders like Pat Corales used to do, I rarely see our veterans in conversation with our youngsters (excluding the pitchers).

Niow just watch — tonight just the opposite will happen.

A victory tonight sure would be most welcome. A blow-out would be even better, and a one run win would be best of all!!!!

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

nolie,

Thanks for making me break my scroll wheel, you jerk.

(Hahahaha…)

By ScottBravesfan

August 22, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Getting swept by the Mets, that sucked. The Braves better throw a crap load of money at CC this off season and try and get a solid number 2 as well.

By Jeff R

August 22, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

NY Jay, smart advice…

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop Thanks for making me break my scroll wheel, you jerk.

Ugh! The scroll wheel broke on our old mouse a while back…Dang, that was annoying!

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

hydee,

Julian always cares, for he is forever vigilant in his quest for dreams to enter. I pray he doesn’t enter yours.

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

I forget who told it, but does anyone remember during one broadcast, someone was saying that one day in the Braves clubhouse, Frenchy was talking to a reporter, and Julian Tavarez came over with a ball and pen, and he asked for Frenchy’s autograph. Frenchy replied with “Why do you want my autograph?” Julian responded: “I don’t”, and walked back to his locker. funny stuff

By Couch Tater

August 22, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the uplifting blog.Why didn’t you go ahead and use Fixin’ to Die Blues off your new Bukka White cd?

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Francoeur out of lineup!

Blanco in RF, Infante in LF.

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

How many years is our good friend Fredi signed with the Marlins? I like having him in Atlanta, and in my mind is one of the best candidates to replace Cox. He could bring some young passion to a younger Braves club. My second choice would be TP, third being Hubbard.

By monty

August 22, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see the looks the Mut’s coaching staff were giving Heilman the other night when he walked the pitcher. If looks could kill he’s be dead. Their staff had very intense looks on their faces whenever things gotta little bumpy for them. It was such a contrast to our coach’s “Gee Wiz”, “Golly Darn” approach that it caught me off guard and I thought “those guys look mean,” Having time to reflect on it why shouldn’t they behave that way, players get paid big bucks to perform. Walking the pitcher is not acceptable. THey let Heilman know how they felt about his performance. I don’t know if I personally would like to play for coaches who are subject to show you up but I think Cox is the opposite end of the spectrum. FOr the most part our coaches just look a little too friendly when bad things happen.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Bobby almost never has any coaches around him

I mentioned this a while back and didn’t see any responses.. I will add, when Bobby Cox gets booted out of a game, you’ll see TP hanging out with Chino..

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

Matt Treanor for back-up catcher in 09…great dude, gamer, great defense, plus his wife is Misty May-Treanor, champion volleyball player….pretty good looking too…

By Julian Tavarez is wicked scary

August 22, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Julian Tavarez = Anton Chigurh?

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Braves signed righty Rodrigo Lopez to a minor league deal with a major league option for next season. He’s one year removed from Tommy John surgery, gonna send him to Gulf Coast League to pitch in a week or so and see how he does rest of season before deciding whether to pick up the option for next year.

He won 15 games for Baltimore a few years ago, but also lost 18 in one season. He’s 32.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

This is just speculation and have read it before by some on here. But, I’m willing to bet Cox had a whole lot to do with Frenchy coming back up so soon. Perhaps he went over Wren’s head and that didn’t go so well, eh? In other words, we need a manager who answers to the GM and doesn’t possess the ability to side step him.

One again for those people who just can’t accept reality. NO way CC comes to this team and Dempster wants to stay in Chicago. And that leaves Sheets I guess? Translation: The Braves won’t outbid the big market teams and even if they did, why on earth would he want to play here?

By bruce

August 22, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

David what is the recovery time for nerve transposition surgery (roughly) thanks, Bruce

By MGL

August 22, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

I have been a huge Bobby Cox supporter, butt maybe he could go on the 15 day DL and we bring up Phil Wellman from AA. In case some of you did not see him, or forgot -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZUKHtW7vg

He might inspire the troops

By Random

August 22, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Del: “For what it’s worth … Have you noticed that Frenchy almost always is sitting alone, that B.Mac is never alone, that Kelly always has a sour look on his face, that Bobby almost never has any coaches around him, that TP is almost always leaning over the railing and never mentoring his pupils, I never see the bench coach positioning the fielders like Pat Corales used to do, I rarely see our veterans in conversation with our youngsters (excluding the pitchers).”

Blah blah BLAH blsh blah.

Just what exactly is your point, Big’un?

By A Bemused Observer

August 22, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Braves signed righty Rodrigo Lopez to a minor league deal with a major league option for next season.

Braves continue to buy scratch-off lotto tickets rather than saving for a rainy day.

By Wally Pip

August 22, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, thank you for an outstanding and much awaited analysis. I read the blog everyday and will not add my opinions re: the critiques of individual performance, managerial decisions and bad luck injuries. I would like to spend my capital on the appearance of the Braves as “two teams.” This season, I see a total lack of camaraderie – no “one for all and all for one” interaction. Several days ago, you answered a question about what type of guy Martin Prado was in the clubhouse. You explained that Prado was polite, quiet, but kept to his own circle of friends. The answer you gave tagged on to what has been festering in my mind most of this dismal season; the Braves as a team are fractured e.g.; “two teams”. There are many circles of friends but no cohesive connection between players. I don’t see any blending of the vets with the call-ups. In fact, I’m not seeing much vet-to-vet camaraderie.

One player that I’m really concerned about is Escobar. His manner suggests that he is a chronic pouter and appears to be generally displeased. Is he still in the depths of depression about the release of Brayan Pena (there’s more to this release than we know) or is it due to another bad call by the ump? True, Escobar’s injury and language difficulties are a factor but this attitude started way before the injury. Whether it is giving himself up to advance a runner or friendliness with his teammates, I just don’t see him being a ‘team guy’. He came to us with so much talent and I want to see him do well but I’m conflicted about his value as it relates to being a positive team player. I’m not piling on Yuni because this attitude is apparent in many players.

In the area of team chemistry, clubhouse situations and personal relationship issues, the Braves management expertly squelches negative information. Some of the “inside baseball stuff” we will never know, but I am convinced that the lack of team chemistry has helped bring down this once strong and respected team.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

Crazy stat: Willie Harris had two homers today to give him seven since the All-Star break. That equaled his career total in nearly 1,300 at-bats before this season.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

FYI - Maddux is pitching tonight for the Dodgers.. And sits down the Phillies 1-2-3. I’ll be watching both games.

By bravos2249

August 22, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

on the Pat Corrales post

I agree. I remember how he could sense a squeeze or a stolen base, and he would yell so loud to get their attention. And you COULD always see him posistioning fielders. That’s one guy I wished we had back. I mean it’s not hard to figure out why the Nats beat us with his vast knowledge of most of our team.

Hate to say it but Bobby managing too long cost us potential managers in Yost and Freddi. With whom neither would leave their respective teams unless they are fired.

If something were to happen and Bobby’s gone, I don’t think they’d put in TP. But who would manage?

some guys from espn have experience as coaching>?

By Petermsp

August 22, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

It took more than one season to get to this point and it’ll take more than one offseason to fix the team. Thinking this team would win was a pipe dream from the start. Was Glavine worth that #18 pick in the draft? Was Matt Diaz ever anything other than a utility player?

That money that everyone wants to spend on free agent pitching (Mike Hampton and AJ Burnett haven’t taught us anything)shoud be put into the farm system.

Pick and pay over slot next June. If three years when Liberty is ready to sell (and they will be) hopefully we won’t be at the bottom and will have a strong farm system to boot.

By Willie Harris is a dude

August 22, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris is a “dude who’s playin’ a dude who’s disguised as another dude”.

By gayle

August 22, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

If you get by year after year, benefitting from a weak division and a band-aid here and one there, it will eventially catch up with you.

All of the vitriol here is 6-7 years past due. In 1999, the Braves were swept in the World Series - since then, they have one only ONE post season series and lost SIX.

The indications have been there, and they have gotten worse. After 2005, this team could not even take the division. This year, they won’t make .500.

This team has been slowing falling apart over a number of years and because of the band aids, division titles, blind faith in the manager and a local media serving as the worst kind of enablers, this team is the mess it is today.

There are so many holes to fill that you don’t know where to start. I suggest you start in the dugout.

When Tex was traded, DOB mentioned something to the effect that perhaps the best thing that could happen would be for this team to hit rock bottom - perhaps then they could no longer hide behind the facade that has propped them up over these past years.

If anyone has watched this team play over the last week, how much worse can it get?

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Bruce, I’m not absolutely certain, but I think if Soriano had the surgery now he could be expected to be ready for spring training, though probably would have to ease into it initially. I’ll try to find out, but I think that’s the case, about 4-5 months recovery.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Gayle If anyone has watched this team play over the last week, how much worse can it get?

Never…Never, never, NEVER ask that question!

Sheesh!

By Jake

August 22, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

I agree with Wally Pip in that I worry about Escobar. Not that I think he’s not a team player, but I worry about his adjustment to becoming an everyday player in the majors. I think the kid is a real stud and has good baseball instincts. I just think he gets frustrated alot in that he doesn’t speak English well at all and it may be harder for him to connect with the players. That connection was probably made easier when Pena was around because he understood where Escobar was from and he could speak english. I know it seems like half the people in baseball are latino so it seems like he would still fit in because there are many players on the braves who are latin born, but Yunel’s situation is a little unique. The way in which he arrived to this country is different than most latinos and he knows there is no going home for him so maybe the fact that Pena was let go kind of compounds that. Hopefully though he can continue to mature under the influences of a fellow countryman like Cadahia and be the player we hoped he would be for his sake and the teams sake. i Beleive Escobar is a gamer.

By The Willie Harris Story

August 22, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Don Cheadle has agreed to play Willie Harris in “The Willie Harris Story”.

Bobby Cox and Terry Pendleton will be played by Wilford Brimley and Cedric the Entertainer, respectively.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Joe Boever had 8 saves for us in 1990 for anyone who was wondering earlier… thats the last time we haven’t had a 10 save pitcher.. before that like 1977

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

On the good news front, Jordan Schafer homered again tonight for Mississippi.

By Random

August 22, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Okay, I heard some of DOB’s gig on 680.

So, DOB, my question to you is — of those players who you’ve seen enough evidence that makes you think the Braves should “cut their losses” with them (based on “body language”, attitude, etc) — no, I’m not gonna ask you to name names — what I want to know is, as far as you know, has Braves management picked up on these same tell-tale signs and do they have the same opinion as you?

That is, does Braves management also have in its multifarious mind the names of some players for whom it’s time to “cut their losses”?

Thank you in advance for your time and attenetion.

By Jake

August 22, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Well, thanks for taking a completely innocent statement out of context. I guess i’ll think about my words next time before I type them.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Didn’t even know that Drive-By Truckers and The Hold Steady were playing together at Tabernacle until I got an e-mail from LiveNation while ago. For once, an e-mail solicitation I actually wanted.

Just got two tickets. Nov. 1, two days after World Series Game 7. Should be an incredible show.

By Novice Ned

August 22, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

GREAT BLOG. There is no way this can be fixed on rhe edges. And no way it can be fixed with Cox at the helm. They tried to give him a short-term solution with a bunch of older pitchers and it didn’t work. We can’t pin our hopes to Smotlz, Glavine, Maddox and Mussina next year. And let’s hope that Bobby doesn’t wear McCann and Boyer down to a numb that threatens their ability to play next season. Time to start working on the Bobby Cox statue for Turner Field. Let the rebuilding begin.

By Dozer

August 22, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew - wake up - Javy lost 30 lbs before his walk year - of course he had a great year - my question is should’nt someone have noticed that overweight players don’t perform well??? How about Andruw all those years - he’s finally over 30 & it isn’t as easy anymore to get by on talent. Bobby is the MANAGER - he should manage these problems insead of sleeping thru games…….

By Sideline

August 22, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Snitker would serve so much better as bench coach. He has more managment experience and has managed most of the kids who have been brought up in the last few years. He definitely gets my vote for next year. And I’d really like to see him get a chance to manage the ATL team.

Hubby certainly should come back.

Perez, probably.

McDowell has had a mess to deal with. I don’t fault him. I do fault Bobby for a lot of misuse of pitchers, though.

My take on Chipper is that he is totally disgusted by the low level of play and lack of professionalism of others. Who’s to say he hasn’t tried talking to some of them and it has fallen on deaf ears. Don’t know, just a thought.

But, it is certain that the wheels have completely come off the wagon and it is going take some major overhauling.

Good post, David. It is refreshing to finally read what we all felt.

Very distressing that Bobby has lost control of the clubhouse, though. The new people and/or kids just don’t respect him or the organization, it seems. Many things can be fixed, but that one is the hardest.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

By the way, for those who might have missed it, Francoeur is out of the lineup tonight. Just out. Not hurt.

By Repeat after me: Blaine Boyer is...

August 22, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

It is because bloggers like Novice Ned believe that Blaine Boyer is a viable bullpen option, I must ceaselessly point out that

Blaine Boyer is a large vat of goo.

By bruce

August 22, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

David, Thanks, that’s longer than I would have thought. I really hope that is his problem and can be fixed soon so we can have him back strong by opening day. Got to be frustrating for him and Braves and fans when diagnosis seems like it is by process of elimination and then up close surgical examination.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Oh my gosh…

Finally felt like things were back on track, but here he goes, swinging at the first two pitches and flying out—again—with RISP….297…(season AVG is .299)

And Omar…popping out to the catcher? Come on, now…

Oh well…it’s early.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Excellent blog DOB!!

I dont know why but last night’s loss took me away hard. I should expect losses, but I was guessing/hoping on a one-run win. OH well. If we can shut down Pujols (big task) and chipper gets a few hits i’m ok with another loss, I guess.

Lots of work indeed, Bringing the kids will help determine what we have at hand and what directions we need to go with (extreme directions)

By Drew

August 22, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

how and where can I try out for the Braves?

seriously

By Interested Observer

August 22, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t Snitker the guy that assurred Scheurholz that if they traded LaRoche that Scott Thorman would be able to fill his offensive production? Good call on that one!

If Bobby comes back next year, I’d move TP to bench coach. Then we could hire Don Baylor as hitting coach. I also think Eddie Perez would be a good bench coach.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

good news we arent down by 4 after the first inning wooo

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58

If i’m correct Morton has had good outings in 3 out of last 4 starts…not bad..The kid needs IP to get comfortable and possible be part of 2N9 plans.

Remember all the Hype before he got brought up. Lets not forget Morton.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Holy Cow!

Pitcher in #8 spot for STL!!!!

can we have hampton in front of #7 next time??

bobby do you have enough guts?

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Leo Mazzone will be calling the game tomorrow on Fox.

Yet another gaffe by Kelly Johnson…

By Kevin

August 22, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

The Braves are not that far away… Kelly Johnson needs to be replaced(the braves season went down fast after the drop in the 9th, what is the team record after that???) Infante needs to start at 2nd… wren needs to get a front line starter and then : b or c starter… Francoeur will be back and add a power bat for left…. the braves will be back!

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Greg Maddux Debut for Dodgers against Phillies:

5.2 IN — 7ER — 2HR-

Anyone want him for next year????????/

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Come On C-Mort…!

K.J. WTF….!

Man this team just finds ways to lose games, I bet the teams in the Little League World Series could beat these clowns…

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Oh.. I am not getting the Braves game tomorrow. My guide says Rays vs. Whitesox.

By Jake

August 22, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

Tight Zone, Patient Hitters, Braves Defense. All bad signs for Young Charlie. I know i’ve seen about 4 pitches that i thought were right down the middle but……….

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Morton did not have it tonight.

Whoa…

By cabravesfan

August 22, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Jeff321

It could be worse- I am getting Dodgers- Phillies

By dannycardwell

August 22, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

i wonder what the braves brass think about when we play against adam wainwright mark derosa and so on. lou pinella said derosa is his mvp for the season. we threw him away. adam has a world series ring with the cardinals. we traded him for another 1 year rental. the list goes on. this is the first time in years that this team has packed it in early. even bobby cox has that look. thanks frank wren, for nothing. you have to wonder if this team quit when tex was traded. i think they did. it sent a message to them that as a team they are worthless. it sent a message to me that i wont be buying many tickets next year. if the team quits, the management quits as they have certainly done, it might be time for the fans to quit as well.

By fastasballs

August 22, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Who said it couldn’t get any worse?

5 walks & the usual bone headed play by the defense. I’m surprised the Cards didn’t hang more runs on them that inning.

By the way fantastic blog DOB Thanks for the inside insight even if you can’t name names.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Way to go Esco! Swinging at the first Fk…g pitch…

Gawd this team Sucks!

Now I get to hear it from all of the bandwagon Cardinal fans where I live at…

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Mayday Mayday

Pujols just 10 points away from chipper!

I’m very sorry about my comment on 8:52 I spoke way too soon.

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Clap Clap Clap

An inning and 1/3 out of our SP. Woo! Over and under on how many runs the Cards will score? I’m going with Cards 14 Braves 2.

On the bright side? We’ll all be watchin college football a week from tomorrow and the Braves 08 season will be a distant memory.

My suggestion for next blog song -

Willie Nelson: “The Party’s Over”

Turn out the lights

The party’s over

They say that

All good things must end

Call it tonight

The party’s over

And tomorrow starts

The same old thing again

By gayle

August 22, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Kevin - I don’t know what it is you’re drinking or smoking, but would you care to share?

Kelly Johnson replaced, yes. But I think there are just a few more holes beyond that.

I do admire your optimism though. Remember, if the Braves win out for the year, they will make 90 games and it’s back into the playoffs!

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking the Braves probably shouldn’t pencil in ol’ Charlie for next year’s rotation just yet.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Ouch Charlie… Ouch

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Any way we can catch the NATS..I mean nats catching us?

theres those runs you were talking about..oh dear

First time i’m worried about chipper persuit to BA title.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 22, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

YOU’RE OUT!!

Yee-haw!

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

DannyCardwell

We got rid of Derosa because Giles had that all star season in 2003, I thought Giles was our future for the next 5 years at the time, no one knew that Giles would fall off like he did…

Getting Clowned 4-0, I think I’d rather listen to my Club Jamz and get tuned up for the back to school party later…

By McFann ;Ô;

August 22, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

YOU’RE OUT, TOO!

Oh yeah! That’s what I’m talkin’ about!

By Kevin

August 22, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of hearing the mark derosa “we gave up on him”..that’s bs… he was given a chance to play and didn’t produce.. his numbers in 04:118 309 33 74 16 0 3 31 99 23 53 1 3 .293 .320 .239.. when he was given chance… i remeber that year and he couldn’t do it… get over it.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Dozer-I wish I was as fat as Javy was at his biggest. I wish I was that fat when I was in my 20’s as a matter of fact. The Dude has NEVER been fat. I even have a picture of him holding one of my drawings the year before he was pumped up. I promise there was no fat.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan

I’ll gladly trade ya for that Dodgers game!

I get the Rays/Marlins almost daily on FSN Florida/Sun Sports/RaysTV.

By geauxbraves2000

August 22, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

I had been looking forward to seeing the Cards/Braves tomorrow, for I bought tx early in the season. I still look forward to seeing the Braves, for I haven’t seem them live in years, not since Tommy K’d McGwire and McGwire was tossed, but with this futility I suspect I won’t enjoy the game very much. Hopefully I’m wrong, maybe it’ll be the one run road win that gets that monkey off their backs. Or maybe they’ll get blown out. The latter is what I suspect.

I’m rambling. Sorry, just thoroughly disgusted with the events of this season. Thoroughly disgusted with the lack of plate discipline.

Geaux Braves!!

By fastasballs

August 22, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Schafer is 2-2 3B HR & 3 RBI’s. Also Medlen has thrown 5 shutout innings with a whopping 10K’s so far.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Anyone other than me regret that we traded Wainwright for J.D. Screw…?

And BTW, Anyone know what happened to Eli Marrero? Haven’t heard much of since he was dealt to Kansas City…

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Go Mac! He’s the only one with their head still in this season. Chipper is thinking bout hunting on the ranch. Frency is thinking about making his next commercial. Kotsay is dreaming about who he’ll play for next year. Jair is dreaming of his free agency eligibility. Kelly Johnson, JoJo Reyes, and Greg Norton can’t believe they’re playing in the big leagues and ol Bobby is just glad he’s not in the nursing home…

By The Truth

August 22, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking the Braves probably shouldn’t pencil in ol’ Charlie for next year’s rotation just yet.

Jair Jurrjens should be the only one penciled in for a spot. So….we basically need 4 starters. I’ll go ahead and say Reyes will probably grab one of those spots. Maybe James Parr or some other triple A guy like Morton could grab the other. Then two spots need to be filled outside of the org.

It is scary how much this team needs.

By Kevin

August 22, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

gayle, what are you drinking or smoking??? are you a braves fan???…. this season is lost.. the braves will retool for next year… they will make changes and will be back..

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, the Braves are out…

By THIS JUST IN

August 22, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Johan Santana has been an absolute ace this year.

And people would take Peavy over him?!?!?!

Why because Peavy has had more than, what, two great seasons?

Johan has had more than that……

By Smart Arse

August 22, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

We are basically guarenteed a top 5-8 draft pick next year, aren’t we?

I’m thinking 70-92 this year folks. Really think about that……

By bravos2249

August 22, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

kevin

so i guess your saying since he had that bad year and about 3-4 good ones after that he deserved to not get a second chance, when there are two guys on the right side of the field who have gotten too many?

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

Anyone wanna take a Call that we get shutout tonight…?

This team is so lifeless, heartless, you name the rest but at least the 1990 team had a young David Justice, Gant, Glavine, Smoltz, etc…

These Clowns …You call it

Here we go again with the F..ing Walks McDowell needs to quit putting up with these walks, Mazzone wouldn’t put up with these nibbling pitchers…

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Derosa was not hitting well for us and his ACL popped on his last game with us…so as a free=agent he had no value at that time…

Gayle what are you really smoking?

OMG pujols 3-3..im worried…

By cabravesfan

August 22, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Jeff321

have you ever heard Charlie Steiner call a game?

By Joeseph McCarthy

August 22, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Just who is this pinko Floyd anyway? I’ll bet he can’t hit d@mn baseball! If there is any corrosive effect in the clubhouse it’s probably because they let you Drew Pearson types in there.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Put it in the books! 3-0 Mets. Luis Ayala blows the Astros away in the 9th for his first save as a Met.

That Minaya just keeps getting dumber and dumber.

BTW-Oswalt still got it. He had electric stuff after a shaky start.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and thanks for nothing Greg Maddux. He not only looks like Mathew Broderick but he’s pitching like him these days.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Has anyone actually seen Medlen pitch? I’m just asking because I am really interested to know what he throws. I knew he threw a low 90’s fastball and slider as a reliever. I am assuming he also throws a changeup as a starter.

By cooper

August 22, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Bobby looks defeated and it seems to be more than just the Braves being out of it.

Something is up - either he is planning to bail or the FO is getting in his face about how he has lost control of his team - so his pink slip may be already on the table.

If he leaves - I think there is a 60% chance he does - I do not want or expect to see TP or much of the coaching staff back in 09.

TP is hardly one of the best hitting coaches in the majors so why would the Braves hand him the team?

He is a nice guy and a professional but for a franchise that has lost its way you MUST interview several candidates before making a move.

I think to some degree JS/BC were too hasty in signing McDowell as the pitching coach. While he has not been horrible he also has not been over the top successful. Sure injuries and so so talent aren’t helping but I think McDowell was signed to stay out of the faces (the anti Leo) of Hudson & Smoltz more so than anything else.

It was a hasty hire and I doubt they go the same route with a new manager.

If Bobby is going to leave on a low note no one from his “crew” is going to be fast tracked to any new gig.

I like the idea of Buck Showalter especially if Wren intends to have an infusion of youth coupled with some star players.

If not Bucky I would go after Fredi (Marlins) among other more interesting candidates.

Apart from Hubbard there is no one on the coaching staff whose resume warrants his contract being picked up.

Sure they are a bunch of good eggs but that is not a reason to keep them. This team can’t bunt, field consistently or play any semblance of small ball and that is on the shoulders of the staff.

You don’t miss the playoffs for 3-4 years, lose 90+ games and not expect both players and coaches to get punted.

If the ship continues to go down look for a major overall of the team and staff.

If Bobby is given the opportunity to stay he will be expected to fire most of his staff as a condition of keeping his job.

JS hates to lose and he cannot stand unprofessional behavior. I am sure he is very disturbed by how this team is playing and coming apart at the seams.

While this is Wren’s baby JS isn’t going to stay silent given the behavior of his ball club.

Change is good. Change is needed. Time to put the 14 flags in the memory chest and move on.

By dannycardwell

August 22, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

kevin, if we had a good hitting coach derosa might not have had the bad year. you name one hitter that pendelton made better. then you get over it.

By Raleigh Brave

August 22, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Charlie Morton lacks confidence. He says so all the time. That’s not good. Becomes self-fulfilling failure. Probably a bust, a head case. DOB, this column today is great. It’s probably worse than we imagine in the clubhouse. I think this team could lose a hundred games. Surely Cox has to shoulder some of the blame for 27 one run losses on the road. Those are the games when the manager’s moves are really important. But will it be any different with a new manager? Not till we get a new owner who cares. That’s the only thing that will fix this mess.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Any way we can hire Mazzone? Seriously? he has knowledge and like the braves. Why not? Even if hes not pitching mgr..maybe bullpen? we can only gain from this, please bring him back..I miss his rocking..

maybe Mazzone and Gonzo can become the rocking bullpen???????

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Charles Harris “Charley” Steiner (born July 17, 1949) ?

The guy that used to be on ESPN? No, I see he does Dodgers radio.. Guess I’ll hear him tomorrow. I do like Vin Scully though.

Btw, FSN Midwest says when the Braves score less than 3 runs they’re 5-55.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Can we atleast get the pitcher out at the plate?

By Anders Mom

August 22, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Anders honey? Come up here and help mama out with this hemorrhoid cream before I ho to bed.

By gayle

August 22, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately I am neither smoking nor drinking.

As The Truth says, it’s scary how much this team needs. Just being a Braves fan does not mean you buy all the smoke that BC and Wren have been blowing this year - it has been amazing!

Remember when BC and Wren said a few days before the trade deadline that the Braves were buyers? Remember when BC commented that Glavine’s rehab outings were “lights out”?

This is just not a good team. They can’t hide it anymore.

oh, btw, down 6-0 enroute to the sixth straight loss and 12 out of 13. Real good team.

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I’ve never seen him pitch but I think the scouting report on him is a 92-94 fastball with a hammer curve and an advaned changeup. From what I’ve read all three of his pitches are outstanding.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Lets See, Adam Wainwright, Burger King, For J.D. Screw and Eli Marrero, Decent deal at the time but in 2008, Schuerholtz Got Hustled by Walt Jocketty…

By Anders

August 22, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

By the way, for those who might have missed it, Francoeur is out of the lineup tonight. Just out. Not hurt.

Hmmm sounds like more between the lines stuff from DOB. This is turning into a season long game of clue. Bobby Cox takes Frenchy out with the candlestick in the parlor.

By Uncle Johnny

August 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Regardless what the Braves take in the draft next year, don’t expect them to be here any time soon.

Murphy stayed at Richmond for quite a while. Justice did also. Cox does not like rookies.

I remember when the golden armed Glavine pitched his first game and he was shelled. Cox wanted to send him back to the minors that day.

The only draftee that came directly up was Bob Horner and that was in his contract due to playing four years of College baseball.

Another thing, If Cox wants to stay around he’d better get dome better coaches. Have you noticed how badly the fielders are positioned?

By atlsportstalk

August 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

DeRosa was and always will be a scrub. The Braves practically gave him the 3rd base position and he demonstrated that he couldn’t be an everyday player.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

If not Bucky I would go after Fredi (Marlins) among other more interesting candidates

I’d say Fredi as manager and mazzone rocking next to him. Maybe keep TP

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Fastbasball, keep those updates coming. Good stuff. Bet we see Schafer Sept. 1, or shortly thereafter….

This just in: Regarding Johan. Been very solid this season. But if I’m building a team and have my choice of pitchers, I’m taking Webb, Peavy or Sabathia ahead of him. Probably a few others, too.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Baby Braves are really babies!

Kelly Johnson, I always defended you but not anymore. Your defense is shaky and now your not hitting and I see no power..I’m ready to move on…Yes steve in OH I’m not with you anymore about KJ..

By Anders

August 22, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Anders Mom

Not sure if you saw my post to you last night. Most of what you post is very funny. You have a cult following up here in NY.

I hear more about your posts to me then just about anyone. Keep it coming.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Something is up - either he is planning to bail or the FO is getting in his face about how he has lost control of his team - so his pink slip may be already on the table.

Who knows? Maybe some of the players/coaches side stepped Cox and went over his head with complaints.. Seeing that I already think Cox did the same thing to Wren concerning Frenchy’s rapid recall.

Chippendale, the ultimate stud Randy Johnson is on the hill tonight against the Marlins.

By atlsportstalk

August 22, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

I totally agree.

By cabravesfan

August 22, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Scully is a legend but Steiner (yes the guy from ESPN) does the games on Fox out here and it is beyond painful

By Henry Hoople

August 22, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Norton Homered!

That’s what I’m talking about. In your face Cardinals. OK, we’re gonna win this one.

Haow ‘bout that Norton. He’s a gamer. I want him on my team next year. We’re just a few pieces away from the playoffs. Yeah baby!

Watch out Mets, here we come!

By THIS JUST IN

August 22, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

This just in: Regarding Johan. Been very solid this season. But if I’m building a team and have my choice of pitchers, I’m taking Webb, Peavy or Sabathia ahead of him. Probably a few others, too.

Why? Stats to back it up would be helpful. Because I see no reason why you would select Peavy over him, he just hasn’t been as durable. Maybe Webb and Sabathia(C.C. has better stuff). Who are the few others? The guy from Boston who has pitched like 2 200 inning seasons(barely)? No not Josh. He is Jack Morris, but he isn’t someone to build a team around. Who else and with what track record?

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Oh Pujlos WILL pass Hoss this series. Just lovely.

By JimD

August 22, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Cooper

Couple of questions for you …

Considering the Braves are in the upper half of the league in hitting stats, just what is it you expect TP to do that he isn’t already doing? Why weren’t people calling for his head last year? Hmm. Think about it.

Also, as for McDowell … he has done an outstanding job with what he had to work with. A major league pitching coach is mostly a fine tuner, a cheerleader, and a psychologist. He has practically drawn blood from a turnip.

You also pointed out the inability of the team to play good defense consistently. Yet you also say Hubbard should be retained. If McDowell is on the hook for the pitchers and TP on the hook for hitters, why isn’t Hubby in the hook for fielders. That is his instructional area.

Remember, this is a team of professional major leagues baseball players. By the time they reach this level, coaches aren’t expected to teach them the fundamentals. They should have learned those things in the minors. Major league coaches help players make adjustments, not teach basic skills.

In my book the decline of fundamentals we have witnessed over the last few years on the Braves have exposed weaknessed in (1) scouting - they are acquiring players who are not fundamentally sound, and (2) player development - minor league managers and coaches are not graduating major league caliber players to the parent club.

By fsubravesfan10

August 22, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Wee Willie Harris= 12 homeruns

Jeff “The Goldenboy” Francouer= 10 homeruns

The Braves team of this year is almost as depressing as the past 4 years in grand ol Tallahasse….

Seriously though… 12-10 Willie is winning?

Sad

By Anders

August 22, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB

This just in: Regarding Johan. Been very solid this season. But if I’m building a team and have my choice of pitchers, I’m taking Webb, Peavy or Sabathia ahead of him. Probably a few others, too.

6 pitchers before Johan who’s second in winning percentage among active pitchers with 150 starts has two Cy Youngs and he’s all of 29? You’re one tough critic. Well, as long as the guy isn’t calling you idiotic to your face.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

These F.k..g Walks are driving me crazy…!

I’d rather see solo homers, rather than walk the whole lineup

I think I’d rather watch Rasslin, at least thats more entertaing that watching the AAA Gwinnett County Braves get Clowned like this…

By Superbarrio

August 22, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Great move Wren. Yeah, let’s make sure to have Bobby Cox another year. Wee hoo wuppie do, let’s lose every f-ing game. All ahead full steam. Bobby at the helm.

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Look like my prediction of the cards scoring 14 runs was a little low.

Does someone on the cards use crazy train as their AB song or is that something they play there all the time?

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Meanwhile Infante makes two more gaffe’s. Ummm, isn’t Brandon Jones still on the bench? Would he be out of position too in left field? Oh right — That’s what he plays, eh.

So, why is he on the bench? Because I’m getting tired of these Cardinals announcers (one being the Ex-Brave “shill” Al Hrabosky) making excuses for Infante. And also saying Cox gets treated so badly by the Atlanta press! Talk about a propaganda statement if I ever heard one.

Nothing is further from the truth.

By atlsportstalk

August 22, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

How the hell is this idiot DeSalvo? The hits just keep on coming.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Name that molina!

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Yes steve in OH I’m not with you anymore about KJ. NNine

That’s your perogative, I guess. You’re not hurting my feelings any. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

By matt

August 22, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Which game should I watch ? The rest of the Braves game or the Falcons preseason game ?

By Ander's Mom

August 22, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Anders honey, please come upstairs. We need to talk.

Someone on the internets is pretending to be me. Note that the name they used was “Anders Mom” and not the correct “Ander’s Mom”. Now why would someone be pretending to be me?

Must be that lots of folks want to “mother” you sweetie boy.

Now come on up here. I want to complain about all the Lithuanian immigrants that have moved into the neighborhood.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

wow Adam Wainwright? 3-4? really?

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

LMAO are you kidding me!? the bat slipped out of his hands and he still got a hit. only the braves.

By Jake

August 22, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Since there is nothing positive to talk about in pertaining to the Braves tonight, I personally think the Cardinals are better than what some people give them credit for. I know with the Cubs doing well and the Brewers trading for CC that a lot of attention has been put on them. They have solid pitching and a good lineup that contains the best hitter out of any of the teams competing for a playoff spot. I see them making the playoffs as the Wild Card. I think the World Series rep comes from the central. I don’t see the Mets/Phillies/Marlins going past first round and while the West has good pitching I worry about their offenses.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Gawd Da..It! Now we are Making Wainwright look like Tony Gwynn…

This is just flat out embarassing…

It just pains me to see the Braves get the Crap beat out of thim like this…

Even the Cardinal Commentators are Clowning these punks…

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Hey now!

Why is Cox letting DeSalvo get “shelled” tonight?

How come he can’t do the same to Boyer/Bennett/Acosta?

Let me guess, Cox didn’t want DeSalvo on this team and he’s rubbing it in Wren’s face.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Good thing I had nothing to do on this Friday night so I decided to sit around and take in the Braves. Not sure what else to say…..this performance tonight is well…yea.

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

I bet you this is gonna be one of those games where Bobby will get himself tossed so he doesn’t have watch this. He’ll just go ballistic on a close play. I really hope we see Schafer this September, hopefully right on the first.

By WTF Braves?

August 22, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Never fear, Boyer is here!

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Welcome back to the BIGS DeDalvo! your ERA is currently @31.50 and your career BA against is 3.52

Solid addition to our tierd Bullpen!

Looks like you fit in real well with our clowns Nunez,Tavarez, Etc..

At least we got R. Lopez! not to confuse with Albie Lopez!

Mazzone and Gonzo can rock-rock the bullpen

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

OK, well, throwing out two base-runners in one inning is about the only good that we cann get out of this game so far…

Might not be too much longer for this blogger…Well, I’ll still be watchin’ some, but the computer will go off…

By Atown

August 22, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Screw it! Let’s clean house and bring in some professionals in the spots where we need it the most. DOB, as always, thanks for the inside scoop. I just wish it was more uplifting. Sometimes the truth hurts.

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

To whoever made the comment about Al Hrabowsky…I can actually tolerate listening to him…I used to really hate it when Joe Buck called the cardinal games…Talk about total homer…

By Anders

August 22, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Ander’s Mom

Honestly I haven’t been applying forensics to reviewing your posts. However, the all bold should have been more of a tip off. You’ve never done that. I’ll try to be more careful.

Peace.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Getting worse by the second…Only 7 points away from Chipper.

Steve from OH I guess I said that in the wrong way. In no way was i trying to be a smart azz…I’m just serious about what we predict about KJ and what he may become. I’m losing faith..I have seen nothing promising in any areas of baseball.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t recommend bringing up Schafer. He has gone through a lot this year. Maybe sending him to Winter Ball and then seeing how he performs in the spring. If he wins the job, okay, if not, there is nothing wrong with starting him in Triple A. What’s the point in rushing him? Why give him more to get stressed about? Just my two cents though. I understand why people want him up here in September, but I am not sure if it will really aid his development.

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, I don’t mind The Mad Hungarian one bit and use to really like seeing his little “act” on the mound.. But, whenever announcers shill for Cox it just makes me irate! Especially when they make up outright lies about him basically not getting a fair shake in the Atlanta media!

By Kasey Kasem

August 22, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Yes…,the hits do keep a comin’ here in 1986 and now at number 22 is Everybody Have Fun Tonight by Wang Chung.

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

This Just In, Anders: Baseball Prospectus lists Johan at 177 innings pitched, 148 K, and 46 BB. He has a 2.75 ERA and a 3.66 DERA. His career ERA is 3.16.

Peavy has 139 IP, 135 K, and 45 BB. His ERA is 2.84, and his DERA is 3.17 (4.50 is set as average). His career ERA is 3.26 Peavy, except for throwing far less innings, is almost exactly equal to Santana. Santana makes 19 million this season, and that number will increase annually until he makes 25 million in 2013.

Peavy will make 8 million this season, and will make no more than 17 million during the life of his contract (less the option). For the money, Peavy is a much better pick. Even considering health problems, when you factor in that Santana is older than Peavy.

Other pitchers that could be better than Santana: Tim Lincecum (he would be my first choice to build a team around, should be the Cy Young winner this season), Dan Haren (fairly close in numbers, cheaper), Ben Sheets (better DERA than Johan, injury history doesn’t worry me much; lots of non arm-related stuff), Ervin Santana (as many K’s as IP, same DERA as Johan)….the list goes on.

Heck, for the league minimum, I’d take my chances with Cole Hamels or Clayton Kershaw over Johan’s 20 MM plus.

DOB’s not off base here. You can go to Baseball Prospectus and look at the stats yourself. Granted, some of those guys admittedly have (slightly) worse stats than Johan, but with the cash I’m saving I go out and buy bats or other arms that make my team better.

By brian

August 22, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Wren is going to have to be creative here in the offseason to get us back to contender status. I hope that Schafer, Hernandez, Hanson, Teahan, and Heyward are untouchable prospects right now. I would almost have to add Freeman to that list after his performance this year.

If we look to trade for pitching or position players hoping that the players above are untouchable, who do we have to trade? As far as near major league pitchers to trade, the Braves have to make decisions on Chuck James and Jo Jo - what future do they have with the Braves and do they carry any trade value? Morton would probably carry the biggest trade value even with his recent struggles, but it would be hard to give up on him. Like a typical young pitcher he has looked good sometimes and has struggled othertimes.

Wren has a lot of decisions regarding position players. He needs to decide if Francoeur is the cornerstone or if the Braves will move on without Frenchy. If Frenchy is not seen as a cornerstone of the frachise - he needs to decided whether to move him this offseason or wait one year hoping he turns it around next year. Looking at the infield, decisions needs to be made about Escobar, KJ, and Lillebridge. Unless we are unaware of clubhouse issues, I would assume Escobar is staying put. If KJ has trade value I would assume he will be gone or moved to LF. That would leave Lillebridge or Prado for 2B. I would love to see what Lillebridge would do daily.

Finally, decisions need to be made on the coaching staff. Bobby Cox is a hall of famer but Wren must, as any GM must do, evaluate the job of the coaching staff at the end of the year. This is by far the worst job of managing and adjusting to the players that Cox has done. Cox has also lost this team. Wren must decide in his mind whether the game has passed Cox by, but hopefully Cox can come to a reasonable decision on that himself - not saying one way or another - but the experts need to decide.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Hmm…Well, McCann’s out. Smart move, but he went 0-2, so that snaps his 1 game hitting streak.

: >

No, really…After the long inning(s), it’s NOT a bad idea.

By SoWeGa Fanatic

August 22, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

If Chipper batted against the Braves pitching staff, he would hit .900

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN

why even argue about Santana vs peavy or others??

There’s no way Santana would be an option for the braves, compared to others.

He just signed huge against a rival that would never give him up. Mute point.

Peavy would be a star here with rockin’ mazzone

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

N Nine:

Sorry man, I was just being a bit snarky. I knew you didn’t mean anything by it.

By StingerSplash

August 22, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

The Titanic didn’t sink as fast as the Braves have. I’ve seen a lot of bad Braves teams through the 70s and 80s, but this current episode is some of the most wretched ever foisted upon Braves fans. They can’t do anything right right now. It is unfathomable how quickly this team has become so downright bad. This isn’t the 19 of 21 losing streak in 1982, because at least that team could recover and did. As this team stands right now, they will lose 90, maybe 95 games, which was unthinkable two months ago. And they won’t be a .500 club next year without some changes.

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Good news Falcons won…. least we have something to be happy about in Atlanta… My worst fear is what DOB said in this Blog about wrinkles in the clubhouse… Losing sucks

By Kentavo

August 22, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Can we please not make any plans that hinge on oft-injured or fragile veterans?

I would love to see Bravos bring Renteria back and switch him to 2B. We are really missing his steady bat.

Trade KJ for some pitcing since teams were apparently salivating over him last winter. I like him, but he’s a defensive liability and Cox can’t decide where to hit him in the order.

This offseason has to be very, very active or the management is telling the fans it doesn’t care. No more smoke and mirrors. That hasn’t worked since 2005 and they got really lucky that year. But even so, that “Baby Braves” team had something that’s so glaringly lacking now: 1. Power hitting CF 2. Speed at the top (Furcal) 3. Backup 1B that could hit 4. Veteran starting rotation and innings eaters (Yeah, John Thompson didn’t set the world on fire but he’s better than Charlie Morton or Jo Jo Reyes at this stage in the game) 5. Three different relievers with double digit saves

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

cue goo yer..calling goo yer where are you?

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

I haven’t Done this much bashing in a long time, but it is due tonight…

This is what happens when you walk the lineup…

Time to listen to some House of Pain while I get Tuned up, screw this heartless team…

What really gets me is the team just shows a blatant lack of effort…WTF?

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Someone please find something nice to say about todays game

By Steve

August 22, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen this sort of corrosive thing before in a different organization, and the only thing that can reverse it is a change in culture, which is brought about by a change in leadership. Despite all of the injuries, the Braves should still be playing hard, and not making bone-headed mistakes in the field. While it’s true that Bobby Cox can’t go out on the mound and pitch every five days, it seems clear at this point that the players aren’t responding to his message. He’s been in the clubhouse so long that he’s become and institution, which is dulling his effectiveness. Every organization goes through change, and the Braves are no different. It’s time for BC to go. He should be shown the door respectfully, in difference to all that he’s done for the team, but he should still be shown the door.

By JC from UT

August 22, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOB: we all know BC has signed an extension for next season. We also all know that much of the Braves primary success came from players drafted by BC while he was serving as GM. Is there any chance BC gives up the managers job and returns to the front office. I am not saying as the day to day GM but as a kind of advisor to Frank Wren or head of the scouting dept. or something to that effect?

By TennesseePaul

August 22, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog DOB. Always appreciated.

This has been getting ugly. I read the articles about the Braves enjoying the spoiler role but I didn’t think they meant rolling over for every contender.

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Martin Prado has produced again tonight despite team struggles. Reverse roles…make KJ the bench player, Prado the starter.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

You realize that up until this year Santana has pitched in the AL where ERA’s are historically higher. The guy is like 105-51 lifetime with two Cy Youngs and is 29. If we’re talking cost well then that’s a whole different deal. I didn’t see where DOB referred to cost. He left 6 games this year where he was leading and the bullpen lost his decision. He could easily have 16 or 17 wins this year. Listen, I could understand someone choosing another pitcher over him, but 6 other pitchers? Sorry, I find that hard to believe. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes here. I’m guessing you guys would take avid Wright over Chipper for this team as well? Salaries and all -no?

BTW- Lincecum certainly has electric stuff but given the choice of any pitcher choosing a 5-11” 170 pound guy with a violent release is certainly risky imo.

By ObiWanKobe

August 22, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Too bad this isn’t girl’s softball… Mercy Rule

By Tomahawkin

August 22, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

As Much as I hate the Cardinals (Since I live in Cardinal Country) I gotta give Nuff Respect To The Job LaRussa has done this year…

Hands down Manager of the year…And that is coming from someone who doesn’t like LaRussa

B. Jones, why da hell didn’t he start…Well know I know why…Swinging at the First Pitch…

Dizam, This isn’t the Batting cage…Take some pitches…!

By THIS JUST IN

August 22, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH,

DOB said starting a team. I wasn’t considering contracts. Nor should you when discussing pitchers to start a team.

Lincecum, Hamels, Sabathia, Webb, Ervin Santana, Lackey, Haren….Maybe some other I didn’t think of. Sheets can’t stay healthy. Kershaw has done what in the majors? Santana is probably a good bet to be very good to great for the next 3-5 years. No reason to think otherwise. He is one of the best. I think if he weren’t a Met, people wouldn’t be killin him on the blog. He is an excellent pitcher. Top 10. And when you consider the innings he has pitched, he has been the most valuable pitcher in the majors the last five years. No other pitcher has been more valuable. Not even Webb or Sabathia. The innings just don’t stack up.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58 Someone please find something nice to say about todays game

Two base-runners were caught stealing in the same inning by McCann!! Whoo-hoo!

Night, all.

By ALAGT

August 22, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

prado has two hits

By Repeat after me: Blaine Boyer is...

August 22, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Need more proof?

3 earned runs.

ERA over 5.

6 losses.

All together now:

Blaine Boyer is a big vat of goo!

By BossLady

August 22, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

My husband always thought Bobby Cox should be gone with all those first round playoffs losses. Now, you know I am hearing it more. Those games in New York he says Bobby looks like he is dead drunk and could care less about the team. Chipper looks and acts like he could care less. McCann, Infante and Blanco are the only players who are trying. I no longer like Yunel and hope he is used as trade for pitching.

I truly hope that the Front office fires Terry, Roger and Chino. I will stick with Bobby until he leaves by choice or by management.

Kelly, Francoeur and Boyer spoils the team and to me Kotsay and Norton are not Braves. WTF did they bring Tavares here?

By Robert S

August 22, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

“Someone please find something nice to say about todays game.”

Ummm, it should be over by midnight?

Don’t hold me to that…….

So…….what position player wants to pitch an inning tonight? Or do they have any left? Hey Frenchy, show us what ya got for an inning.

By R-Braves Fan

August 22, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

ANDERS, good post at 4:23Just got home from work & saw the score. A lot of us could have predicted a lot of the pitching failures before they happened, etc. It comes down to I agree with Anders. Not too late for Wren to work out of it, but he better not be slow out of the blocks come October.

By Raleigh Brave

August 22, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

When is Kotchman coming back? Or is he?

By JC from UT

August 22, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

KENTAVO: I agree with you rassessment of KJ. I’m just afraid it may be too late to get good value for him. Other team are sure to notice his streakiness. You know the old saying: Better to trade a guy 1 year too early than 1 year too late. This may be the case with KJ.

In my opinion this is the same problem that happened with AJ. I believe there was a chance to trade AJ before his 10 and 5 rights kicked in to Boston for a package of Jacoby Ellsbury and Craig Hanson, but JS was holding out for Jon Lester as well, which ended up back firing. I know it is hind sight but just gettin Ellsbury for AJ would have been good enough for me.

By Charlie

August 22, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

DOB: Very insightful writing on your part, leading into this blog. (Again), well done. I do appreciate your ability to write well and honestly. I’ve bought MLB Extra Innings this year, so that I could get the Braves games, here in North Dakota. I’ve got the game on…I can hear what is going on, I just can’t stand to watch anymore. I’m kinda getting past the frustration of this season. I’m at the “I can’t care anymore” stage. I figure if the players don’t care, why should I? A very unprofessional collection of ball players just now. No pride or sense of responsibility. Enough. Thanks David. You’re always a good read!

By A Bemused Observer

August 22, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

I just heard that when the Braves went on the trip to New York a few days ago, everyone on the team had to wear a tie.

Is that true?

Ties?

But no infield practice, bunting practice?

I guess looking good makes up for a lot.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58: McFann can! about the two Caught stealings in one inning…annnd thats about it!

Kentavo: Wwlcome to 2008! where have you been? Renteria hitting and defense has declined greatly! He’s batting .266 with 7HR and 43 RBI..and lost his starting Job!!

Steve from OH: yep 15-1 games does that to anyone, were all frustrated..but this hurts less then those one run games..funny how that works..as DOB says: The Braves have a lot of work to do this winter. Where do we begin?

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Wainwright pitched 5-1/3 innings tonight and got five at-bats (and three hits).

By Anders

August 22, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

DOB

Assuming you’re still reading your own blog, if you don’t confront Cox and some of the players regarding this complete, how shall I say this, how about “meltdown” then you should get back on that cigar tube and go home. Not asking these types of questions would be in Cox’s terms “idiotic”. It’s time for him to answer for this disaster.

Any chance Wren shows up at 3 in the morning to let Cox go? That seemed to work for my Mets.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Mistake: Renteria just not playing tonight..but still a starter

By Kasey Kasem

August 22, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Next on our list of 1986 hits is a California girl Lisa Velez (who looks amazingly like Penelope Cruz with bigger ta ta’s.) You know her better as Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam at number 77… All Cried Out.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

DOB

Blog title says it all…

By AdirondackDave

August 22, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Holy smoke, this team is worse than bad. Really mailing it in… At what point does management stop using injuries as the excuse and take responsibility for this bunch on the field? Answer: don’t hold your breath.

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Anders, Lincecum is the best pitcher in the game today, bar none. His mechanics, according to everything I’ve read, are flawless. Did you read the Tom Verducci article circulating the blog a while ago?

Cost is certainly a factor, if we’re talking about a player you build a team around (BTW, Wright will make roughly the same amount of money as Chipper over the next two seasons, and then an increase over what Chipper will be making after that).

You want an AL pitcher I’d take over Johan, then? Roy Halladay. Roughly the same amount of innings pitched over the last 2 or 3 years, lower DERA, more K’s this season. Cheaper! Or how about Cliff Lee? His K and IP numbers are almost identical to Johan, and his DERA is much lower. Way cheaper! CC Sabathia’s numbers last season were as good or better than Johan’s.

Josh Beckett is not too far off from Johan, either, for the record.

Wins and losses are stupid. You should know this. Cy Youngs are voted by a lot of people who really don’t objectively pick the best pitcher in the league. This is a dumb argument also.

I’m not discounting Johan’s skills. Great pitcher. Fantastic pitcher. But he makes too much money to build a successful team around when there are comparable pitchers out there for much less money.

If money’s not a factor, then I still take Lincecum and Webb over him for sure.

By A-ville Ranger

August 22, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Brutal lead post DOB,I think your assessment is spot on.

There is the one exception,the one everybody inside baseball is dancing around.Bobby Cox has lost this team.I can’t recall seeing of hearing a story on the Braves of late where that doesn’t seem to be the 800 lb gorrilla nobody really wants to acknowledge.

Jimmy Johnson’s place in NFL history will be a footnote compared to that of Tom Landry’s.Does that mean Landry should have stayed longer ? No,somebody had to make that unpleasant decision though…….The Skipper has no clothes.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

If wainwright could hit Braves’ pitching all year he might beat out Chipper for the batting title!!

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Wow, The Boss Lady just Tony Montana’d almost the whole Braves team in her 10:50 post.

Choo want some of this! Rat-a-tat-tat.

Note to self: Keep Boss Lady where I can see her.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Julian Tavaras is a big vat of goo!

I really don’t care what his ERA is with us either. So don’t give me that.

By Superbarrio

August 22, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Kiss the Batting Crown goodbye, Chipper.

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

This Just In:

This is the real world. Contracts matter. Like I said earlier, if money wasn’t a factor, I’d still take Lincecum and Webb over him for sure. But they’re probably it. There’s others that are close to him, as I’ve previously noted, but he’s definitely in the top 5 (or less) in all of MLB. It would be tough to take anyone else over him if everyone was paid the same, no question.

No sour grapes here. The Mets got a good one.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Kasey

You went from #22 to #77!! I don’t get it!

By Goodoleboy58

August 22, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

McFann

Lol that is a positive… Good job haha… This is rough

By Jeff

August 22, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

I’m in otatl agrrement with what you said. I live in Florida and I have followed and loved the Braves for years. But I’m sick of the complaining that current Braves players, coaches, and management are making this year. The two Florida teams have miniscule payrolls and are doing better. So, this state of play cannot be blamed on injuries or other personnel issues. The problem is with the front office personnel and Bobby Cox for not showing any urgengtcy to win games. Bobby rests guys when their on hitting streaks —- why? I know the plan of Hudson, Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton did not work out as planned, but the managing of the rookies and call-ups has been pathetic. I’ve watched every Braves game this year. Resting players is April and May is absurd. Your article provided most of what I wanted to say, but I think we can still win games. However, the Braves cannot win if Bobby doesn’t start managing —- are his hands tied by management? Why does he leave pitchers that are having bad outings in for so long? I am not in the Braves clubhouse or bulpen, but I’ve been a baseball coach for eight years. I could’ve managed the Braves bullpen and starting pitchers to sweep the METS. WHY ARE WE GIVING UP?

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Just overheard in the production room for Baseball Tonight

“Listen, we can’t show all the Cardinal runs scored, the show is only an hour long after all.”

By fastasballs

August 22, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Have the Braves ever given up 30 hits in a game?

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Quick fun game—Name that Molina!

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

70 wins is going to be difficult. That would take 14-19 from here. Is that going to even be possible?

By A Bemused Observer

August 22, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

OMG

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

What about Olsen from the Marlins? Hear they’re trying to unload payroll.

By BossLady

August 22, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

This is not New York and you do not go around getting in people’s face demanding of them the things they are aware of already. That would be a total lack of respect and would damage our information lines something awful. The players, coaches and GM sorta enjoy talking to DOB and will take the time to answer his questions, his emails and give him respect. The South is a different environment than the North, so participate here if you will.

I see New York as a huge media event city and they could care less about humiliating people. Look how they treated Randolph and didn’t care what it did to him. Look, everybody knows the Braves are playing poorly, so why in the world would you want to rub salt in the already wounded organization?

By Jeff321

August 22, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Maybe one day Kelly Johnson will figure out his DIVE sucks! Seriously, we really need two second baseman on the field because this guy can’t get to anything unless its hit right at him.. and then we have to deal with his butter fingers and errant throws.

I saw KJ nail somebody at the plate when he used to play left field. There is no excuse for keeping him at second base any longer. And I don’t care how much training he’s received for the position switch. Its obviously not working!

On a side note: 26 hits/18 runs for the Cards.

By StingerSplash

August 22, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

St. Louis Cardinals - 26 hits, 23 outs as of Cesar Izturis’ single. And they only have 43 at-bats so far tonight? That’s a batting average for tonight’s game of …. .605. .605! Six-oh-five! In the words of Boon as the moving crew tore down and took away the remnants of the Delta House, “This is ridiculous.”

And it’s embarrassing. This is an affront to all that is baseball. In England, they’d be relegated and kicked out of the Premier League. At this point, I don’t know that this Braves team could compete for an International League title.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

southbeachdietfreak you know its been a long game when worthless Izturis is hitting .258 after his 4- hit game tonight… the pitcher actually has better BA..but you know you want him.

By Jburro

August 22, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Any team in baseball would have fired their manager by now with the total lack professionalism displayed by this team. Actually if Bobby Cox had any decorum about him he would resign. You can even tell by Chipper’s play he doesn’t care. Bobby Cox should go and so should anyone else who thinks they don’t have to play hard. The Braves can lose with anyone playing.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Steve from Oh Again, I don’t think DOB was taking salaries into account. If these pitchers are all better than Johan then wouldn’t it stand to reason that they would be making more money than him shortly or are we still expecting Georgia based discounts?

Anyway, the Mets have Johan and the Braves have none of the above which is what really counts.

By TNScott

August 22, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

DOB I’ve been a Braves fan since the early 70’s, My first Brave hero as a child was The Hammer then along came Murphy. Even in the bad days of the mid to late 80’s, I would still watch my Braves and root for them because I could tell just by watching them that cared, They cared about the fans, and I believe this group does to large extent. What I see here is an apathetic attitude toward the game and organization itself. As bad as they were in the late 80’s, you could sense they at least gave their all in respect to the game, and the uniform they wore. You also sensed that management would try to do everything to right the ship, and it did. One thing changed along the way . The man behind the franchise. When the Braves were sold to the Evil Empire, the Braves no longer became a team but a line on a ledger sheet. The Braves continued to win for awhile because the management team behind it was solid. Eventually, the cracks began to grow and ownership began to be more concerned with dollars and cents than wins and losses. When John S. stated after Time Warner decided to cut payroll, “We will be competitive,” I knew it would eventually come to this, and we would not be a team in the upper echelon of baseball mentioned in the same breath as the Yankees like we once were. A culture of winning was replaced with “Do what you want with x amount of dollars because our bottom line is the bottom line.” Until we get it ownership that is more than a figurehead that seemingly only comes out every February to tell us whether or not we will have six more months of bad baseball, I don’t see anything changing. If ownership doesn’t care eventually over a period of time this attitude will trickle down. The teams that are and will be successful yearly are those with solid management and a commitment to excellence. Baseball has become commercialized to a degree like Christmas, and players are just as responsible. When we have to call into question a player’s performance on whether or not he is giving his best so he can be traded, we are setting a horrible for the next generation. I guess I’ll just be content with watching the Williamsport gang this weekend and remembering when the Braves and their players were what many of these kids aspired to be.

By THIS JUST IN

August 22, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH, you are missing the point. DOB never brought up money. Never.

When it comes down to it, maybe Brandon Webb. But not Lincecum. Not with that violent delivery and short frame. No thank you sir.

To me, Sabathia has the best stuff of all of them. 300 pound pitchers just scare me though.

By Jburro

August 22, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

With the total uncaring lackluster play of the Braves how can Cox not be fired. That is his job. Any team in baseball would have already fired the manager by now. If Cox had any decorum he would resign. Aren’t we all tired of hearing, “things just didn’t go our way”. You create your own luck by the way you practice and play. I just watched ST Louis kill them with 18 runs and 26 hits. Embarrasing.

By fastasballs

August 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

The Braves have moved a little closer to the Nats for baseball’s title of futility. Well I guess Seattle needs a little consideration for that title as well, but even as bad as they are the Braves have looked much worse lately.

A top 5 pick would be nice, especially since the Braves lost the 18th pick this year to the Mets for the Glavine signing. Ouch!

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Efrim

Thoughts on Cox? I know the Braves aren’t the type of org to let him go before the end of the year but this is disastrous. Maybe they can convince him to claim an illness or something ?

Bringing young guys into this on 9/1 could do more harm than good to the prospects. It’d be like a couple on the verge of divorce bringing foster kids in.

By Kasey Kasem

August 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

southbeachdietfreak Hey…thanks for the request, a whole lot of goin’ backwards these days.

…and for your request to Adam Wainwright…Don’t Forget Me(When I’m Gone.)by Glass Tiger

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Nice attempted comeback at the end!

Time to become the florida marlins and have a garage sale..not really but that’s how i feel at this point.

Children close your eyes from this point on——————————————————-

THE CHIPPER JONES UPDATE:

Chipper 1-4 .359

Pujols 3-3 .353

Holliday 1-4 .343 (not complete)

Pardon Gonzo but OUR BULLPEN is a big vat of goo! Biggest star: Tavaras

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

“If we’re going to lose, we’re going to lose with dignity…… It just doesn’t matter, it just doesn’t matter, it just doesn’t matter”

By Steve from OH

August 22, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Like I said, if money isn’t a factor it would be tough to take anyone not named Lincecum, CC, or Webb over Johan. He’s a great pitcher.

And Anders, I’ll take comfort in the fact that you’ll be paying Johan 25 million when he’s in his decline phase.

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

August 22, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

OMFG !!!!!!!! For funny :)

By keylargo

August 22, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

southbeach

There was an article in sunday’s Miami Herald by the Marlins beat writer (Barry Jackson) detailing who on the Marlins might be available in the off season. Seems they are having Roster Depletion III, eliminating payroll.

The Marlins new stadium is no longer a sure thing and it seems that the Marlins are going to try to stay in the same payroll range as 2008.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Jburro

The Braves Adm. will not fire cox. In fact they signed him to another year. the ONLY way he’s not the MGR is him resigning. They will not end his tenure like that.. After 2N9 that might be a different story.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Boss Lady

Were you not here last October when most on here skinned me alive and poured salt on every inch of my body after the Mets collapse? Quite the southern hospitality I’ve recieved here. Sorry, but it’s a reporters job to ask the hard questions. Having a comfortable relationship with mgt/players/coaches should not be a priority or requirement for the job. Professional athletes and coaches know these tough questions are coming when they don’t perform. I never said to humiliate anyone. I would find it humiliating as a fan to accept Cox saying “Hey we gave it our best again and didn’t get the breaks. Maybe we’ll get them tomorrow” night after night after night.

By A Bemused Observer

August 22, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Do the Braves do this?

(From an article on the Giants page on ESPN web site)

SAN FRANCISCO — For 15 minutes every day, Giants coach Tim Flannery holds a clinic on bunting. Results of this season’s field trial have been mixed…

“These guys know the mechanics, so it becomes a matter of will,” Flannery said. “You say, ‘No matter what, I’m going to get this down.’ You either turn the adrenaline and pressure into fear, or you turn it into focus.”

By ObiWanKobe

August 22, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Would be interesting to hear what Skip would have to say about this one. Being in Southern California and losing Chick Hearn, I always felt some solace in the fact he didn’t have to see the whole Kobe / Shaq (you see the restraining order thing?) divorce. As well as the Lakers fall from grace. So in a way Skip is lucky. But know this once an organization knows how to win, win it will. So kick all the dirt onto the grave, throw wood on the pyre, fit them all with cement shoes, but the will be back. The will win again. They know how. All they have to do is realize that the know how to win. Trust me it happens. Just look at the Lakers, USA Basketball, the USC Trojans. And sorry, but UGA is not going to finish any where near where they are ranked now.

By N Nine

August 22, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Ok Kids pop quiz time!

Falcons 17 - Titans 3

Cards 18 - Braves 3

Which one is a baseball score? What does not match here? YIKES

By cooper

August 22, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Braves rank in top of nothing that matters re: offense.

TP has done very little with guys who need help and clearly as the wheels come off he is not a stabilizing force.

Have you see the power numbers, GIDP stats and abysmal late inning stats?

For the guys who are professional hitters like Chipper and WIP McCann they seek outside help.

Lack of situation hitting and biblical slumps under TP’s watch is a clue that he is not a rain maker when it comes to hitting.

McDowell was knee jerk hire and he is a mirror image of TP - smoke & mirrors and he has fixed no one.

Or do you believe every single hitter and pitcher sucks so badly they are beyond help.

Bottom line what matters is Wins and the mgt team of Braves Inc have failed to win for three going four years.

Stop making excuses for mgt.

By brian

August 22, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

I think DOBs suggestion of John Lackey would work the best - not the price tag of the higher profile pitchers but a solid #1 starter in the Greg Maddux mold.

By Jake

August 22, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Ready for the September Call-Ups. Glad to see Willie Harris has found his power stroke this year. I know the guy fell off last year near the end, but I liked the way he played. He hustled and played every play hard because he knew there was no gurantee he’d be in there. Listening to Joe and Boog earlier tonight talking about one of the Cardinals coaches Hal McRae and how they mix and match their roster a lot. They don’t have many everyday players. I think they said they had about three in Pujols, Molina, and I forgot the third player. They play the player who is best against that pitcher or do the lefty and righty matchups. He said they do that to give their hitters confidence and give them the best chance to succeed. The player has to earn the right to start for them, and they are not hesistant to give a player the night off if they are struggling. I like that approach. I wonder how our offense would have been if we had done that instead of just waiting for the slumps to end. The way I see it we had about three untouchables in Chipper, Mac, and Teix(no real backup and great glove).

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Kasey

Here’s a long distance dedication…

Dear Kasey,

I was traded by a certain baseball team not to long ago. I was uncertain about the change of scenery, playing for a first-place club… but I’ve adjusted well over time. I know the guys on my former team miss me, and my heart goes out to them during this most treacherous time. They will always be a part of my life. So Kasey, would you please play “The Night the Lights Went out in Georgia, by Reba McEntire?” Thanks.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Kasey

Here’s a long distance dedication…

Dear Kasey,

I was traded by a certain baseball team not to long ago. I was uncertain about the change of scenery, playing for a first-place club… but I’ve adjusted well over time. I know the guys on my former team miss me, and my heart goes out to them during this most treacherous time. They will always be a part of my life. So Kasey, would you please play “The Night the Lights Went out in Georgia, by Reba McEntire?” Thanks. Sincerely, Mark in Anaheim.

By Kasey Kasem

August 22, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

One of our most requested songs from 1986 goes out to Anders,Metroman & Snipper who are looking forward to the post-season. From Daryl Hall…Dreamtime.

By Henry Hoople

August 22, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

We’re doing OK. Bennett was lights out. Norton displayed his awesome power. And Prado and Infante each had 2 hits. Those guys can rake.

I tell ya - we’re just a few pieces from being in contention next year.

By BossLady

August 22, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

He’s a beat writer, Bro. by DOB

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

ObiWan

I find your lack of faith in the Dawgs disturbing (though they will lose to the Vols).

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Jerome Jurenovich is an idiot.

Brian Jordan knows Jerome Jurenovich is an idiot.

Katy Temple says the guys need to win to “put some smiles back on their faces.”

(pulls the trigger)

I love Braves Live.

By Don

August 22, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

My opinion, Chipper doesn’t deserve to win this batting title, nobody on this team should receive any reward at all.

Pujois is a player and leader and probably will win the titla going away.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

You will hear nary a negative word regarding TP on this blog, you know being a motorcycle riding buddy and all.

See Boss Lady’s 11:18 post for a hint to connect the dots on this one. Sounds like she’s onto something after all.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

Kasey

It’s a Mistake by Men at Work

By Anders

August 23, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Just in from Beijing: Usain Bolt will come to Shea this Sunday to race David Wright around the bases to settle this fastest man alive thing once and for all.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 23, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Kasey

Don’t Dream it’s Over by Tears for Fears (I think)

By Kasey Kasem

August 23, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

southbeach Sorry, tell your friend Mark we’re only playing 1986 tunes tonight. His agent did have a request… I’m Your Man by Wham!

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

D.O.B. Have fun up there in da Louie Tonight…It’s Party Time 4 Tomahawkin…

Gotta get my Drank on, to relieve that a.s whipping we got tohight…

By N Nine (fire tavaras now)

August 23, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

chop chop

Your watching braves live? For your own health sake, please do something else..but then again im here talking about the braves..lol and yes that guy is a nutcase!!

Braves E# (magic number) stands at 18…so 9 or 10 more days possibly eliminated..more like 2 weeks likely.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 23, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

Wonder if JJ snagged a couple of prospects from Curacao’s LL Baseball team when he was in Williamsport.

By Brian

August 23, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Trading some players we have now this offseason is the easy part for FW. Getting rid of some coaches- Roger McDowell,bench coach, Pendleton, is going to be the hard part because of Cox. He will stand by his coaches no matter what, I garantee. What the hell is going on with these young pitchers having no stamina? Gotta be a problem in our minors. This is not talking out of frustration of the moment either. There is something going on here that none of us know about. I’ll try to watch the game tommorow and hear what Leo Mazzone might say.

By sheeesh

August 23, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Let’s do the math…the only ‘Baby Braves’ remaining on the active 25-roster are McCann, Francoeur, Boyer, and Kelly Johnson. DOB is obviously a big fan of McCann and would never knock him in any way. Plus, McCann is a legit player by any measure, so we know that he is not one of the problems (plus DOB points out that he has surpassed expectations). That leaves Frenchy, Boyer, and KJ. Which categories do they fall into?

We all know Frenchy’s story. He, at a minimum, is in the ‘inability to make necessary adjustments’ group, maybe ‘stubborn’, too. But I doubt Frenchy is a clubhouse problem — just does not seem to be the type. But he may also be one of the immature ones as evidenced by the way he handled the demotion to Mississippi.

Boyer is just a bad pitcher — he has never shown any promise since he came back from the shoulder injury he sustained at the end of 2005. He has made a few comments about appreciating Smoltz’s veteran advice, but I think in general, he is probably one of the one’s who lacks the special skills need to perform at the MLB level.

That leaves KJ. Offensively, he is average, at best, and very streaky. Defensively, he is a disaster in my opinion. He does not appear to work at his game at all (at least he does not get results that would indicate as much). He even said himself when asked how he would compare his defense this season to last season that it was “about the same”. Defense is something that a player should be able to improve with enough work and practice. So I think that makes him a bit unprofessional at a minimum. And I think he is one of the problems in the clubhouse, falling into the “immature” and “failing to make adjustments” categories and not having the “mental toughness to perform at an elite level in the face of adversity”. The reason the Braves experimented with converting him to play 2B is because they thought he was going to be a steady bat and they had no experienced options at the time. The offense part of the equation has not yielded the expected results and his defense is still very suspect. I am not a big fan of Prado’s defense at 2B, but he has shown me something with the bat. I have not seen Infante play 2B, but he also has shown some consistency at the plate. I think it is time to call the KJ experiment at 2B a failure and put Prado and/or Infante in at 2B. I would get rid of KJ because, reading between the lines, I think he is one of the clubhouse problems hinted at by DOB.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 23, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Kasey

On my own by Patti Labelle and Michael Macdonald

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

Chipper’s lead in the batting race just shrunk big-time, to six points over Pujols, who was 3-for-3 with three RBI tonight.

Chipper went 1-for-4 and is down to .359, to Pujols’ .363.

From my game story:

“It’s embarrassing,” catcher Brian McCann said after the Braves’ sixth consecutive loss and 11th in 12 games. “There’s not one person on this club who would say it’s not embarrassing, the way we’ve played the last three weeks.”

The Cardinals had their most hits (26) in a game since 1930, and their 21 singles were two shy of the major league record.

The Braves hadn’t allowed as many hits since San Francisco got 27 in a 23-8 rout in 1990, and hadn’t surrendered as many runs since Philadelphia’s 18-5 win in Atlanta on Sept. 9, 2003.

ALSO: The Cards’ 18 runs were the most they’ve had without hitting a homer in research going back to 1954.

It was their largest margin of victory vs. the Braves since 1950, when they beat the Boston Braves 15-0.

By Chop Chop

August 23, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

N Nine,

I just forgot to change the channel. I assure you that it wasn’t left there on purpose.

Katy Temple isn’t very good as a reporter, but she’s a damn sight better at that than she is in the studio. Jerome Jurenovich should never be a reporter. He should always be in the studio. Brian Jordan should always be negative about the team. He’s pretty good at it. It’s more entertaining than making excuses for the team.

Finally, Ron Gant should always be talking about small ball to please Coach.

Wait. He already does that.

Duly noted.

By Brian

August 23, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Anders- shut the hell up!!! The Muts might get to the postseason but they won’t go far! The majority of New Yorkers are rude, very greedy, and very very TRASHY!!!!!!!!!! Did I mention ignorant and know-it-alls? So don’t talk trash here cause until the filthy Muts win 14 straight titles SHUT YOUR MOUTH BOY!!! I know you’ve heard that before but you know it’s the truth!

By Bobby's Wife

August 23, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

Are we buyers or sellers???

Put this on the Jumbo Screen and prepare a video presentation for c c and Ben who are making reservations as we speak.

Let’s make sure we have Glavine back—We Owe Him!! Smoltz—-We Owe Him!!! Maddux —-We Owe Him!!! Hampton—-Well, NOBODY owes Mikey except his conscience and the realization we are all going to the same place.

By Goat Horns

August 23, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

Only 27 more for 100.

Does anyone doubt this team can do it?

I think they have a real shot.

By My 2 Cents

August 23, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

SHAME ON YOU— BRAVES. SHAME ON— COX.

The name on that Jersey represents millions of citizens who live in Atlanta. If you dont care/or want it …then quit and get off the field. SHAME ON THIS ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

Catfish, I mentioned the Moylan and Soriano injuries, in the part about losing most key pitchers for significant parts of the season. You must’ve overlooked it, bro.

By Steve

August 23, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

I can’t wait to hear Bobby Cox’s scenility-ridden excuse for why what just happened is OK. “Gotta tip your hat to the Cardinals. We’ll get ‘em tomorrow, boys.” It is obvious that the wheels have come off. Just fire the manager and get it over with already.

THIS TEAM IS F—ING PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABSOLUTELY F—ING PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By StingerSplash

August 23, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

I know Cox doesn’t like to throw the players under the bus in public, but to say tonight wasn’t embarrassing, that it happens …. well, yeah, it happens, maybe twice a year to good teams. But when you’ve been outscored like this in the last week and a half, and you get your teeth kicked in 18-3, I’m sorry, that is embarrassing, period, and for once, Cox might be better served to say so publicly.

By Bulldog Drummond

August 23, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Anyone else catch the quote from McCann that there “isn’t anyone in our clubhouse who isn’t” embarrassed.”

Yet Bobby insisted he wasn’t embarassed. Is this guy ever honest about anything? He even complained about all the seeing eye hits again tonight.

Yeah right, all 26 of them.

By Elmer Valo

August 23, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Let’s quit worrying about the Met fans and start thinking what it will be like if Cubs ACTUALLY win something.

I personally hope they get so sky high that when they Crash and Burn this time that there won’t be enough medical personnel on the Eastern Seaboard to be transported to try to walk people through it. They better close every building over 2 stories to prevent all the morons wearing Santo jerseys from committing “Harry Caray”.

By uga-brave

August 23, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

i dont have words,

been at CHOPS all night. they changed the channel when it was 6-0.

it was the third frickin inning.

By NO MORE BOBBY

August 23, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

I noticed the headline from tonights “game” says BRAVES EMBARRASSED BY SKID AND LOSS.

Well watching the interview with Cox after the game he says - embarrassing? no these kinda games happen.

What the!!!!! Why would his players care and go out and hustle if the manager takes a loss like this so lightly? I bet Torre or Piniella wouldn’t stand for a loss like this in a race or not. Plus there would be a lot of people sitting the bench on those teams for this kind of play. A statement has to be made now or its going to carry over into next year because the players know they can get away with this crap under Cox.

When is someone in the Atlanta press going to come right out and ask Bobby why he has thrown up his hands and let the team give up like this? We all know it was not going to be a playoff year but can’t we at least play for a little PRIDE?

SMOTLZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!

By Brian

August 23, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

TOP 3 UGLIEST UNIFORMS: Cubs-Muts-Astros TOP 3 GOOFIEST BATTING STANCES: Alou-Pujols-Bagwell

By Brian

August 23, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

TOP 3 UGLIEST UNIFORMS: Cubs-Muts-Astros TOP 3 GOOFIEST BATTING STANCES: Alou-Pujols-Bagwell

By Stern Reality

August 23, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

Oh my Goodness!! I just scrolled back and saw the idiot with his “Dream 25 Man Roster”—-Loser, Get a life and realize your dream about Mariah Carey inviting you to Grand Cayman has a much better chance of coming to fruition.

This Is Atlanta!!! Dreams Go To Die In Atlanta—When it comes to sports.

ALWAYS REMEMBER—4!!!!!!!!!!!Teams Basically Continuously In EVERY MAJOR SPORT since 1966!!!!!!!!!!, AND 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Championship to show for it!!

It’s Atlanta. Stop Dreaming!!

I Know!! I Know!!!! Those 14 Division Banners—Yep, that will do it.

By uga-brave

August 23, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

I GOT ROASTED when i said frenchy was a stiff last year? right lew?

lew you damn good dawg, roast me if you will.

look from the outside. you condemned me for my opinion of the outfield.

diaz, kotsay, and the french. pretty much take stink to another level.

this ain’t on BOBBY, he is the only real winner left.

By hoho

August 23, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

Stern Reality we can’t stop dreaming dude, we got the ATL Dream WNBA team- their like 3 and 24 or something (sad that I even know that, but I’m always dreamin’)

we didn’t pitch bad tonight, we just couldn’t locate (maybe Leo will say something like that tomorrow)

By uga-brave

August 23, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

DOB,

at this point i think we should bring out a great REPLACEMENTS tune?

I WILL BE A WHILE AND SO SHOULD YOU.

By Bruised In Brownsville

August 23, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

Bobby was not embarrassed when he nailed you know who—-Why would this embarrass him, once you’ve gone down that route, the rest is easy.

After all you’ve shown how TOUGH you are!!

By uga-brave

August 23, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

bobby cox is the only real winner left.

if he went out of character and started blaming players, then some of you morons might have a point.

bobby will defend all of the players, that is what makes him the best.

no matter how bad it is bobby, will always have their backs.

so yeah, blame #6 he is the last thing that connects 14 divisions in a row.

DOB, ASK francoeur, kelly, b-macc, and boyer, how it feels to ruin a great franchise.

they are supposed to be the core players.

the braves only won 14 straight divison titles, before they got here.

we are saddled with there bulll crap.

i really hope that blaine blower realizes that he is part of the problem.

By Brian

August 23, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

STERN- I gotta lineup for ya: Anderson/Schafer Furcal/Hudson Jones Burrell McCann Escobar Francoeur Kotchman Trade for a an ace and get Lowe-there’s no reason why they can’t do that unless they dismantle or players just want to long of a contract

By N8

August 23, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

For anybody that cares (I realize that I might be the only one), the Braves are now only a half game “behind” (or ahead - you say potato……), the Royals for the 4th over all pick in next year’s draft.

That might be as high as we get though. We’re 8.5 games ahead of the Padres, 9.5 games up on Seattle, and 10 games up on the Nats.

With only 33 games left, I’m not sure that that is enough time to “catch them all”. Though, I haven’t given up on this team. I still think they can do it.

Either way…Top 4 pick is cool by me.

By George Strait

August 23, 2008 2:47 AM | Link to this

**To the tune of my 57th Number One Hit, “I Saw God Today” 4/4 Beat, Moderate Tempo

LET’S FIRE COX TODAY**

I just turned the dial to watch the Braves again Had once won the division for 14 seasons straight Just saw Kelly boot a grounder one more time And now I realize, that we just ain’t that great

Another mental lapse, hey we can’t bunt, we Missed the cut-off man, and I don’t understand What happened to the Braves we used to know

Let’s Fire Cox Today

I’ve been to games, there at the Ted Before the Cow, but now they’re Dead The Nats are coming to claim 4th Place

Let’s Fire Cox Today

Chipper’s got the look of a man who’s lost Thinking we shoulda kept Tex no matter what the cost Anderson still in the minors with a hitting streak Man, our decision-making has been pretty weak Can’t wait to hunt elk on the Double Dime

Let’s Fire Cox Today

I’ve been to games, there at the Ted Before the Cow, but now they’re Dead The Nats are coming to claim 4th Place Willie Harris has more homers than Frenchy what a disgrace

Let’s Fire Cox Today

Can’t Watch this anymore this team don’t fight DOB has spoke his peace and he called it right We can talk about music and place the blame NC Scoots is mad and says it ain’t the same

Anders is right and admitting that is tough…………..

Let’s Fire Cox Today

By N8

August 23, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this

uga

“…so yeah, blame #6 he is the last thing that connects 14 divisions in a row.”

Hmmmm. Other than they year he was injured, I’d go with Smoltz as being more of a “factor”, and the year he was hurt? There was these two other HOF pitchers that took the ball in 70 of the 162 games played.

Seriously though, I’m not gonna get into it with you, because while we disagree with each other, I’m certain we respect each others views.

But what I would also like to add, is that he is one of only three common links on the past three seasons, that has been “part of the team” for ALL of the games, as well. The others? McCann. Certainly he is NOT to blame. And Francoeur. Even you can’t pin this WHOLE mess on him. Let’s go with the two “easy” targets…..KJ and Hampton. It’s ALL their fault. LOL!

I’ll go with the recent history, not the ancient version.

Sorry to “chime in” so late. Just got home. Respond as you must, but I might not see it until late tomorrow afternoon.

By mark

August 23, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this

looks to me even Cox has lost control of this team..its a real mess you can see this weeek lack of trying…I never thought id see these guys give up they have…what a mess!!!

By Bobby's Cox

August 23, 2008 4:17 AM | Link to this

18-3?

I miss those 1 run road losses.

By baby brave

August 23, 2008 5:51 AM | Link to this

Give me Liberty or Give me death! 18-3? Liberty, get rid of the architect of this disaster…your boy Terry McGuirk, the most incompetent “man” in Atlanta. He is a major problem of a do-nothing but sit back and point a finger.

By BravesFan79

August 23, 2008 6:10 AM | Link to this

To me i want to see the Braves play well, but loose every game we can. Theres a few pitchers im sure that will go in the top 7 or so in the draft, i want one of those DOMINATE pitchers….not someone with a 3.50 Era…. Makes the games close Braves, but LOOSE LOOSE LOOSE!

I mean really, i think as a true braves fan i would of been more dissapointed if we won 18-3 than if we lost 18-3. Winning at this point does nothing to help this franchise in the future.
Right now… we are the Boston Celtics of 2007…and we need to tank everygame so we can build on the future.
I know this team is much better than what weve been shown since Tex was traded.

By LOST-BRAVE

August 23, 2008 6:15 AM | Link to this

DOB.HEARD SOMETHING THAT REALLY DISTURBED ME EARLY THIS AM, ON THE RADIO, THAT WHEN T.W. SOLD THE BRAVES TO LIBERTY, THAT AFTER THE 2011 SEASON LIBERTY COULD MOVE OUR TEAM? IS THIS TRUE?HAS ANY ONE ELSE HEARD ANY RUMORS ON THIS?SECOND QUESTION IS THIS ONE OF THE REASON’S BRAVES MANAGEMENT HAS NOT SPENT ANY TYPE OF MONEY ON THE TEAM INCLUDING T.W. AT LEAST TED BROUGHT US A WINNING TEAM. ALSO YOU STATED IN YOUR POST THE PAST TWO DAY’S THAT YOU WERE NOT SURE THAT B.C. WOULD BE BACK AS MANAGER NEXT SEASON? IS ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THIS THE POSSABLE MOVE OF THE BRAVES FROM ATLANTA,AND HE JUST DO’ES NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. BY THE WAY I HEARD THIS ON A SPORTS-TALK SHOW OUT OF TENN. BEEN TICKET HOLDER SINCE EARLY ‘70’S IT WOULD JUST KILL ME IF THE BRAVES MOVED

By Firetheoldfool

August 23, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this

BC is not embarrased by this drubbing? He should be embarrased about his inept managing this team for the last THREE years!!! OMG can’t anyone in management see that this team is like the Bad News Bears? Don’t give me this crap about all the injuries. Bull$#@^#^. Fire the old fool.

By Scott from Fairburn

August 23, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

DOB, this post is particularly appreciated.

I read your blog primarily (and occasionally participate) for this type of clubhouse insight that doesn’t come through on standard articles.

There was a interesting article in USA today this week on the success of the Minnesota Twins. They are able to compete on a limited payroll because they stress the fundamentals and seem to have systematized their organizational philosophy.

I’m having a hard time with this player/coach attitude of not having enough veterans “to set the standard/police” … conditions change … I thought that’s why people are paid to manage.

By Efrim

August 23, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Anders

I have no idea what to think about BC. I don’t see the Braves competing next year unless they compromise the future by trading away prospects. The free agent market just doesn’t have enough talent to make this a playoff team. So, does Bobby Cox really want to go through another season like this? I don’t think it will be this bad, it sure better not be, but I don’t think they will compete at a high level. Does Cox want to manage in 2010? No idea, he’ll go year by year as usual.

By TommyP

August 23, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

DOB: So you wanna retract the scathing response you gave me about calling some kids up to get an audition in the bigs? (after the trade deadline) You said something about giving the season ticketholders (who are now staying home) something to watch. Yeah, they sure have something to watch.

This has been an absolute waste of a month. When you’re this bad with nothing to play for, see what the kids can do not just in September but in August as well.

The Giants have a clue. (at least with this concept) They haven’t been in it for awhile and have been auditioning their youth for months now. Oh yeah, they’re 12-9 in the month of August with all of this youth.

Play Brandon Jones DAILY. Call up Anderson and play him a ton (Blanco is limping a bit and could use the rest anyway).

What scares me about Wren is his penchant for shopping at yard sales for pitching. (Tavarez, Rodrigo Lopez, Vlad Nunez, Brian Lawrence…not sure if DeSalvo is his signing) It’s one thing if you acquire players like that like the Reds had done for years - acquire guys with SIGNIFICANT talent that haven’t panned out yet but it’s quite another when you sign guys that have no upside.

By RK

August 23, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Now I am only a diehard fan and not a GM or even a beat writer. Just a management consultant. But even I knew and had written on AJC — that to have all of these “winning the division” hopes were WAY out of line… How can one possibly think that with 2 pitchers over 40, followed by a group of young inexperienced pitchers, a crippled 3rd baseman, trading away Tex after giving up 5 prospects, no center fielder — or outfield for that matter — that we would finish anywhere but near the bottom??? I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone and reality has left this team…

By Random

August 23, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

RK: “Now I am only a diehard fan and not a GM or even a beat writer. Just a management consultant. But even I knew and had written on AJC — that to have all of these “winning the division” hopes were WAY out of line… How can one possibly think that with 2 pitchers over 40, followed by a group of young inexperienced pitchers, a crippled 3rd baseman, trading away Tex after giving up 5 prospects, no center fielder — or outfield for that matter — that we would finish anywhere but near the bottom??? I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone and reality has left this team…”

Yeah, and I feel like you’ve got 20/20 hindsight. Congratulations — you must be so proud.

“But even I knew and had written on AJC” — okay, how ‘bout giving us a link to your farsighted prognostication? Maybe then we’ll take you seriously.

By Oz

August 23, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

the tampa bay bandwagon rocks&rolls on…It’s 1991 all over again—believe in it…25 guys pulling together not tearing apart…ROCCO’S BACK BABY!

By david

August 23, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

The biggest Braves problem—8They haven’t developed an ACE, or even a solid starter in 15 years!!*

That trickle down into every other part of the franchise. And that is Schuerholtz’s fault. As good as we have been developing some position players, we have done an abysmal job with pitchers.

Keeping Bobby Cox too long is the other. No bunts, no hit and run, no sacrifices (we stink at bunting). Very good managers like Bobby Cox mange their way and the team adjusts. GREAT managers know how to adapt and read the personalities. He has done a great job at winning a lot of divisions but it’s all about championships.

By Braveheart

August 23, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Anders, Johan might have been a bit unlucky to be robbed by some wins because of the bullpen but Johan has also been lucky because he is not pitching anywhere near as good as his pretty little 2.64 ERA would suggest.

Look at his FIP for the year. He’s got an FIP of 3.72. That’s more indicative of the kind of pitcher he is right now and where his ERA really should be.

Look at the K rate that has dropped by a frightening 2 Ks a game this year. The K:BB ratio has dropped from 5+ to the low 3s. His fastball has dropped 2 mph. His slider has dropped 1.5 mph. His changeup has dropped 2 mph.

Luckily, for him, he moved to the NL so that the gopher ball propensity of his could be cut down a bit for the time being.

Reduced mph on pitches combined with a sharp reduction in K rates for a flyball pitcher entering his thirties does not bode well for what you guys should expect for the remainder of the $115 million you’ve got to pay him over the next 5 years.

By Jeff R

August 23, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Last night’s 18-3 drubbing shows that this team is in total freefall. It goes beyond injuries or inexperience. Even a lack of talent. These guys have stopped coming out to play. They’re marking time to the close of the season.

It is time to bring up the kids. Rather the Braves lose with young talent playing hard in hopes of winning positions next season than watch this crew sloutch through games.

By BrandonC

August 23, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

I’m glad to hear somebody bring it out into the open. It seems like everytime Cox is interviewed he goes about thinking that everybody is playing as hard as they can. This team needs a kick in the pants and I think Bobby needs to do it. It’s time to get firm with these players.

This lineup is not working right now and Braves fans want some changes. People may think bringing up fresh talent wouldn’t make a difference, but it couldn’t be any worse than it is already. I’m hoping to see a different lineup when the September callups come. Give the guys who will be battling for a spot next year a chance to get some at bats.

I hate to say it but it’s almost embarassing to be a Braves fan right now.

By j-school dropout

August 23, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe there are still people on here who prefer this godawful play to losing in the first round of the playoffs. Man, I would prefer third place to this. I can’t even watch this. Back in 1990 I was playing softball in Los Angeles on a company team and wearing a Braves hat at practice. One of the opposing players really got on me for supporting such losers. For the next 15 years nobody laughed at my Braves support again. Hell, yes, I would prefer being in the playoffs to this. I can’t watch this. We don’t even have Skip to help us laugh despite the inept play of this team anymore. This is awful. How bad is attendance this year? What will that do to our ability to pay for free agents next year? This is bad. Really bad.

By Random

August 23, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

BravesFan79: “To me i want to see the Braves play well, but loose every game we can. Theres a few pitchers im sure that will go in the top 7 or so in the draft, i want one of those DOMINATE pitchers….not someone with a 3.50 Era…. Makes the games close Braves, but LOOSE LOOSE LOOSE! … I mean really, i think as a true braves fan i would of been more dissapointed if we won 18-3 than if we lost 18-3. Winning at this point does nothing to help this franchise in the future… . Right now… we are the Boston Celtics of 2007…and we need to tank everygame so we can build on the future.”

Yeah, right — like picking 3rd instead of 7th in the new player draft is going to make ANY kind of difference in how the Braves play and where they finish next year.

Dream on.

And you just keep on rooting for the Braves to lose, Loser — but don’t forget: winning begets winning and losing begets losing.

Sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind.

Loser.

By Jeff321

August 23, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Do the Braves do this?

I think instead of Cox teaching bunting.. He’s more likely to show the boys which fork to use while eating BBQ Beanie Weenies off the clubhouse spread.

“There’s not one person on this club who would say it’s not embarrassing, the way we’ve played the last three weeks.”

I might be going out on a limb here, but don’t think Cox will admit his team and their leader is embarrassing!

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Liberty, get rid of the architect of this disaster…your boy Terry McGuirk, the most incompetent “man” in Atlanta. He is a major problem of a do-nothing but sit back and point a finger.baby brave

OK, on this one I’ve just gotta ask for an explanation, a clarification. Because I’m confused. “Architect?” “Point a finger?” What did McGuirk do or say that you’re talking about when you say he “pointed a finger.” I honestly don’t know. Just asking you to explain.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

DOB, I have to disagree with something you said. You mentioned that most Braves fans would like to see the first-round losses of recent seasons, compared to the horrible season the Braves are having this year. I’m not sure about that. I for one would rather see them stink the joint up, as they’re doing now, rather than seeing them once again lose in the first round, or even the NLCS, or even the World Series.AllBarnBlues

I’m going to assume you’re being serious. And I’m gonna hope you let someone else drive yesterday if you left the house during your bender.

By used cars

August 23, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

We’ve had a heckuva run since picking up Sid Bream and Terry Pendleton in the off-season of 1990. I remember the guy I worked with in a smalltown newspaper sports department go ballistic because we picked up those two guys…It was just another misstep in his mind, just like Len Barker, Bruce Sutter, Ozzie Virgil, Omar Moreno, Chuck Tanner, Eddie Haas and the rest…but it wasn’t a bad move and we’ve had great karma for the passt 16 years until this year. The luck has run out and we can’t reload…we have to rebuild…I would like to see some of the young talent like Schafer, Hanson, Medlen, Brandon Jones, James Parr and whoever else you want to throw in there get exposed to the majors in September….I don’t want to watch Infante try to learn the outfield or Mike Hampton try to make up for 2 lost years…We need to see what we have so we will know what we need…If Kelly (who I actually like) will bring a player…We need a big righthanded stick in left field…Let Prado and Lillibridge fight for second base…Get one big-time starter and maybe a Kyle Lohse type…This time is no farther away than the team from 1990..The Mets and Phils are no better than the Reds and Dodgers were back then..We just need some change, just like then…If Bobby wants to manage another year, he’s earned it…But TP and McDowell haven’t earned much in my mind…Where is the improvement in the younger players and pitchers…We’re primed for another worst to first, we just can’t go into the spring counting on Glavine, Hampton or Smoltz or even Hudson for ‘09…We’ve got the money to spend, let’s just hope that Wren makes prudent decisions like the pickups of Jurrjens, Infante and Ohman…and even Kotsay to a lesser degree….

By Supes

August 23, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Absolutely unacceptable.

Bobby Cox has lost this team. He lost it a while back. Players are playing out of position and why? What are we playing for right now?

Braves have healthy outfielders in the minors, on the bench (Brandon Jones) who are sitting so Infante can play LF?

Folks, Infante is most comfortable on the infield. He has said so himself. He has demonstrated he’s a below average OF, makes Matty Diaz look good out there.

This is all on Frank Wren and the coaching staff.

Bobby Cox should be “retired” immediately.

Make Eddie Perez the manager for the rest of the season and see what happens. He won’t stand for this kind of pathetic display. Eddie is a blue color guy who would expect nothing but everyone’s best and when not given he’d call their a**es out instead of protecting this gutless bunch.

He would also play the young guys. Bobby is set in his ways and refuses to do that.

Frank Wren, continues to bring in SCRAP pitchers that 31 other teams GAVE UP on.

There are no words. At least Brian McCann sounds pi&&ed off. He will be an excellent team leader for the future. The rest need a kick in the a&&

5 more weeks to go…how much more is a fan expected to take of this crap?

By Braveheart

August 23, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Hopefully things aren’t this bad or confusing in the clubhouse:

On this day, three was a crowd. Until Sunday, 35-year-old Carla Ramson lived in an apartment in southwest Atlanta with two men she identified as her husband and live-in boyfriend, according to an Atlanta police report. Both men were arrested after they got into a fight at their apartment in the 2900 block of Third Avenue, possibly because one got jealous of the other.

The husband, Tracy Lee, 25, was arrested on charges of aggravated assault and battery, and he was released Tuesday from the Fulton County Jail on $25,000 bond. The boyfriend, Michael Reed, 21, is facing two felony charges, including aggravated assault. He, too, got out of jail Thursday after posting $35,000 bond.

The incident happened at 11:30 a.m. Sunday. Ramson told police that she and husband Lee were having sex in her bedroom, while Reed was sitting in the living room, the report said. Apparently that didn’t sit well with Reed. He got angry and demanded that Ramson and Lee let him in the bedroom, the report said. Reed somehow got into the bedroom and pushed Lee, the woman told police. Lee returned the favor, pushing Reed onto a table lamp, the report said.

Reed then picked up a glass vase and hit Lee in the face, Lee told police. Lee retaliated by getting a knife and trying to stab Reed several times, Reed told police. When police arrived, Reed was taken to Grady Memorial Hospital for injuries, and both were eventually taken to jail. When reached by phone Thursday afternoon, Ramson said that both men no longer lived there and she wasn’t going to worry about it. But she said she couldn’t talk because she had company over, and she asked a reporter to call her later. She could not be reached later.

By Vince

August 23, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

I told everyone this is a BAD team months ago, now you belive me. The braves must get rid of the old dead wood. Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton and others must go. We cannot and must not live in the past. Frank, call Freddie Gonzalaz and find out what the Marlins secret is.

By Bill

August 23, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

I agree on Quirk, he’s the boss over all of them. Just hearing him talk, turns me off. Who are these guy’s? They just don’t care which way the wind blows. Just playing out the season. Why not bring up Schaffer and others, regardless what he’s been through. If he can’t handle it, he need to find something ele to do. This is one of the worst teams, since they been in Atlanta. It’s not going to change until Liberty Mutual sells the team and bring in a whole new management team.

By varoadrunner

August 23, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

As I’ve been saying for some time - It’s time for Bobby Cox to ride off into the sunset. Someone mentioned it- *How can we expect to lure high caliber free agents when we have such a stagnant management staff. Who knows who our hitting coach will be in 2010? Who will be our pitching coach in 2010? Who will be our MANAGER in 2010?

The answer is for the management team to resign in 2008 and hire a top notch management staff before any FA signings.

The management style is not working. This year has been a mess, injuries, attitudes, frenchy, (oops) and management has not done a thing to improve it.

Start new NOW. Cox exits after this year for the good of the team.

By bevsouth

August 23, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

As a long time Braves fan now living in Tampa Bay, can’t help compare the Rays to the Braves. Rays have young pitchers just like the Braves now that Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine all out for the year. The difference is the fundemental style of the Rays. They have no super stars, no one hitting 300, buth they do all the little things correctly and play great defense. Also Joe Maddon is on top of everything whilc Bobby just keeps making excuses. The rays are now a product of doing what some have suggested, use all the money to go after college players, pay above slot instead fo trying to patch thru free agency, and if all goes well be right back into it in 2010

By IGivUp

August 23, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

This team is officially a complete disaster. Someone needs to beg Arhtur Blank to buy the team from Liberty Media. I previously compared the LM purchase to CBS purchase of the Yankees in the 60’s for tax reasons. It appears more and more to be spot on. Without leadership at the top this team will flounder for years to come just like the Braves did prior to Ted Turner and like the Yankees did prior to Steinbrenner. The salad days are over, Skip Carey’s passing was a metaphor for the passing of the Brave’s glory years. It is time for big changes.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Springsteen’s playing tonight in downtown St. Louis. How much do you predict it’ll cost for me to get a ticket from a scalper?

By bevsouth

August 23, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

DOB; Assuuming Smoltz, Glavine ,Hampton, Hudson(Insurance) money comes off the books, how much does that total that could be used to acquire both frre agents and high rated college players, like Longoia and Price?

By IGivUp

August 23, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

You have to wonder why the Braves have not been able to develop any pitchers since Smoltz and Galvine. Either they push them to fast or they cannot identify talent. Someone needs to figure this out. We have had a parade of young pitchers that looked good initally and then flamed out. What is up here?

By BT

August 23, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, what kind of reaction did you get in the clubhouse in response to your reporting that their was disruption going on?

Sports Center was showing highlights of playoff contenders. Twins second bagger reminded me how the position is really played. Hope KJ didn’t see it, could be too depressing.

Will McCann get chewed out for telling the truth (about the embarrassment)? Is Chipper even talking any more? Without being specific do any of them have a “who cares” attitude?

By T

August 23, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

This team has been embarrassing for some time now… not just last night.

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

D.O.B. Tomahawkin Iz Hungover like a mug…lol… But I gotta ask how does this team compare to the Marlin’s teams you use to cover…?

I’m pretty sure those Marlin’s teams played with more heart than these clowns do…

And BTW…** Do You Listen to any 90’s R&B…?

Like Keith Sweat, Shai, S.W.V., Old R. Kelly…?

By Braveheart

August 23, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

When Francoeur is asked about the state of the team, does he say delusional stuff like we’re just about to turn the corner? According to him, he’s been about to turn the corner with his hitting for months now, so I was just wondering if he’s just as delusional about the team as he is himself

By gayle

August 23, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

It’s not that bad! Heck, if we just count field goals instead of the score, the Braves only lost 6-1.

Someone somewhere in a plush office embarassed by this, but not for the same reason as most of us here. Not so much for the record or the score, but the value of an investment.

Has anyone heard a peep out of JS? Is he still out on a book tour? Will he have to edit his book based upon what his creation has become?

Since I predicted 4th place back in April, allow me another prediction.

The season plays out, the Braves end up somewhere around 70-92. Then after the World Series and before baseball’s winter meetings, Bobby has a “medical” event that requires him to step down from manager for “health reasons”.

In respect of his contributions and his likely HOF stats, he takes a front office job and the Braves have all winter to plan the BC tribute in the Spring.

His past record notwithstanding, I have never seen a team in more disarray and with a bleaker future than the 2008 Braves. I don’t know who will make the call, but it will be made.

You heard it here first.

By don

August 23, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I do, indeed, remember when the Braves were as bad, actually worse, than they are now. Of course, I have followed the Braves since March of 1953. Those new fans who jumped on the bandwagon in the early 1990s are likely depressed.

By the way, how many hits did J.D. Drew have against Wainwright? If you think that trade was bad, wait until the Teixeira trade with the Rangers comes to full fruitation.

By JimD

August 23, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Bemused Observer

So, you are extolling the SF Giants as the paragon of MLB offense? Have you looked at their offensive stats? They are worse than the Braves.

Check out this comparison

By BT

August 23, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, you should apologize clowns everywhere for comparing them with this version of the so called Braves!

By varoadrunner

August 23, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Braves Sign Rodrigo Lopez

Is this a sign of things to come? A 32 year old friend of Campillo’s. OMG, please tell me this is not the future of the Braves.

Wren is not impressing me so far during his tenure.

By coach k

August 23, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Enough of this madness. This team is an embarressment to all of baseball. I have never been a Cox fan and had he managed in Kansas City he would not have a third of his wins, with no Glavine, Maddox, Smoltz to bail him out he is having to manange and it shows how little he knows. I am tired of loyalty to players, if you are not producing you don’t play, THis team plays like a 162 pick up games, they don’t act like a team, don’t play like a team, have no passion, no fire, white collar players who just show up to work. Fire cox, and take Pendleton, keep Roger and make a statement that this lame excuse for a ball club is unacceptable and not tolerated at this level. I am tired of the excuses..GET IT DONE. The downfall started in 96 with the letting go of Justice and Dye. Then we let Glavine and Maddox go and on and on. When I look around the league there is a Brave on almost every roster making an impact for that team, Go Dye and Dero, and Wainwright , who go more freaking hits than any position player last night.

By BravesFan79

August 23, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Im tired of seeing all these stupid post by so called Braves fans lumping Smoltz in the same sentence with Glavine and Hampton!

Bringing back Smoltz is DIFFERENT because Smoltz would be in the PEN!
Smoltz a few years ago was the most dominant closer in the NL. WTF are yall thinking saying you wouldnt want us to bring him back after hes healed!?? * what kind of FAN are you that would wouldnt wanna see a true WARRIOR out there on the mound for the Braves!*

Smoltz can play for my team till hes 80 for all i care!

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Why has B-Macc taken over as the vocal leader of the clubhouse…

No Francoeur last nite, D.O.B. There has to be sumptin behind that…

oh yeah D.O.B Where are the best bars/resturants to visit in da Louie? I get to go up there next weekend…

By Michael

August 23, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

As bad as the pitching has been the biggest concern has to be the outfield. We have the worst hitting outfield in the majors right now. What can be done? The first question is Jeff in RF. If he shows no improvement next spring and starts the first month like he’s played most of this season he has to be moved, not that most teams would actually want him. Even his defense is slipping. There probably has to be consideration given to trading Chipper Jones, my favorite player, for prospects. The Braves have to go into full rebuilding mode. If they continue to try this piece meal approach we will suffer through 6 or 7 years of poor play. Rebuilding could be accomplished in 2 to 4 years tops.. Shorter is the farm system is as good as the Braves pr machine advertised.

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

gayle,

the only thing I have heard out of JS, is a Terry McGuirk comment from early May, wherein he stated that JS had told him that he could not have done as good a job with this team as Wren had done since taking over.

By BravesFan79

August 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Random:
no man, its more of a difference bt 5th and 15th place….and thats not just 1 round… but EVERY round!

So keep acting like the top draft picks dont matter…just look at the Brewers!! Sheets, Fielder,….or the young players the Marlins have….. and tell me the draft dosent matter! I want the Braves to play well, im just not dissapointed anymore by losses.

And im not one of the negative pple on this blog… i believe with the right moves, and Hudson and Smoltz coming back around the all star break next year… we can make a serious run at the division title!!
Your probably one of the TRUE loosers thats ready to count a warrior like Smoltz out arent ya….

By gayle

August 23, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

I’m with you, coach k. The downfall started in ‘96 with that hanging slider from Wohlers to Leyritz and continued from there. 4-11 in post season series since that game and 0-7 in World Series games.

Most call JS a genius, but how smart was he to Justice and Dye go? And all those trades for hired guns like Sheffield, Drew and Tex?

I’ve said it many times before, what is happening now is the culmination of years of poor management, play and lots of band aids. They only can hold up for so long.

By varoadrunner

August 23, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I will clearly take a division title EACH year! I find it hard to even watch this team. After playing like champions for so long, it is hard to watch this lousy play.

Playing like champions means that, as a fan, I expect them to win every game and when they lose, they come back twice as hard the next game. This year, unless it was like last night, I wonder how they will figure out how to lose.

By ben

August 23, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

The Braves play like a minor league team playing a major league team. I believe that AAA teams could play as good as this team plays. The team needs a major overall from top to bottom.

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin,

In downtown St. Louis, both Dan Dierdorf and Mike Shannon have very good restaurants.

IIRC, both restuarants are named after these gentlemen.

There is also a nice Italian district called, “The Hill”. (Not in downtown). Several restaurants, not sure which is is considered to be the best, but many of them very good to great.

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Ben 4 da last couple weeks I have referred to the Braves as the AAA Gwinnett County Braves, I’m sure that the teams in the Little League World Series could beat these cats…

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

brent a., Dierdorf’s is closed, and it wasn’t very good to begin with.

Charlie Gitto’s Pasta House downtown is very good, and the Hill, as you mentioned, has several restaurants. But for downtown areas only, this ranks as one of the very worst we go to. Not much going on at all, either at night or during days on weekend.

I just went for a walk downtown, and was amazed that no breakfast place bothers to open on Saturdays. Hundreds of baseball fans walking around looking for a place to eat, and none of these less-than-savvy restaurant owners deem it worthy of being open on a Saturday downtown.

By bruce

August 23, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

David Check Stubhub can get Bruce tickets for $49 to $219… Bruce

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Brent a Thanks brah, nuff respect… But do you know the best clubs in the Louie, becuz I will be getting my Drank on Fo Sure…

Lets hope that dem Braves don’t get clowned on national TV Today…

By coach k

August 23, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

I have been involved in baseball for 43 of my 50 yrs on this planet and you know this game is not that hard. We continually look like we have no idea what to do at the plate, Whitey herzog once told me that you paly every inning like it is the bottom of the ninth and you work to score one run, any way you have to, which is small ball. This team does not move runners over and we can’t even make good outs to advance runners. All of us fans state our digust, but when will someone from mgt, like ole george Steinbrenner, get on the front page of the AJC and freaking blast this farse of a team. This type of play in unexcusable!!

By bruce

August 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

David: or in KC tomorrow night $109 - $239 many more Bruce tix available on Stubhub

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

well, can’t go to KC tomorrow night, since we’ve got a game here tomorrow afternoon and I’m not gonna rent a car and race across the state of Missouri after writing my stories. So tonight it will have to be. And it works great anyway, arena’s right across from my hotel.

By the way, Baltimore Ravens are staying in my hotel (playing Rams today; it’s a busy day in downtown St. Lou). Got on the elevator and there were four enormous guys on it already.

Didn’t realize Ravens were here until I ran into Hampton entering the hotel a few minutes later. Braves aren’t staying here, so I asked him what he was doing here. He was meeting his buddy, Kyle Boller, for breakfast.

When he said that, I realized why there were four 300-pound guys on the elevator moments earlier.

By Shaun

August 23, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

The question for me is which comes first: Leadership and professionalism or winning?

Seems to me that winning leads to leadership and a “professional” feeling around the clubhouse. Losing zaps that feeling from the clubhouse.

By bruce

August 23, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Any Braves Fans in DC? One free ticket available for each game next weekend I have one extra ticket to each of the three games next weekend in DC, actually a great ticket right behind Braves dugout in section 117L row G or H. Cost: at least wear a Braves cap or T-shirt and buy me a beer if the braves win or look like they will win when they shut down beer sales. Gonna put them on Stubhub this afternoon, but will take down from stubhub for any legit response. BTW you probably won’t have to sit right next to me because there are lots of empty seats, if that helps. Thanks, Bruce.

By bali smith

August 23, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

I have really enjoyed reading your articles and record reviews this season. I cant believe the number of injuries the Braves have had to deal with this season. I wonder if it would not be best to just begin a total rebuilding project, especially with the pitching staff. Jeff F. seems to be plaing like the weight of the world is on his sholdersand has struggled mightily. Why did the Braves send him down to the minors and bring him back so quick.Trying for the quick fix at first base really seems to have backfired……. Would like to see the Braves try to develop their own and keep young talent and not trade them to other teams. Onthe music end i downloaded a few drive bytuckers tunes and will probably buy one of their CD s soon.Also listened to Nashville Skyline the other night it has always been one of my favorite albums.Last but not least how do I get your job….. I have ben aschool teacher for 30 years and I would like to start my spring in South Florida covering the Braves and listening to new music………. Keep up the good work

By Shaun

August 23, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Enough of this madness. This team is an embarressment to all of baseball. I have never been a Cox fan and had he managed in Kansas City he would not have a third of his wins, with no Glavine, Maddox, Smoltz to bail him out he is having to manange and it shows how little he knows.

Would any manager have a third of his wins had he managed in Kansas City? That’s just a ridiculous argument that others have tried to make.

By Salty Dawg

August 23, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Bottom line, they need to make moves to bring in people that can restore both the performance level and the professionalism that, at least to me, seems lacking lately. These Braves aren’t playing or carrying themselves like the Braves we’ve been accustomed to seeing, and Braves Nation is getting restless. -DOB

Amen DOB, amen.

Of course, I could be wrong. -DOB

No, I would say and most would probably agree that you are dead-on-balls accurate. Let’s hope that F.W. is of the same opinion.

This team has a recent history of relying on relying far too heavily on what ifs and maybes. “What if Glavine can come back and win 12 games. “Maybe Hampton will finally be able to come back and be productive. “Maybe Kelly Johnson will develop into a serviceable 2nd baseman. And on, and on, and on, and on. This division and this league are too strong to win with a bunch of retreads and inexperienced players. If you were building a team from scratch today, ask yourself which of the Braves players you would actually want on your team. Not many. Chipper, BMac, Yunel, a few pitchers. The rest are cardboard cutouts. As a die-hard Braves fan I’m torn between loyalty to the players and what’s best for the team. But at some point you have to say, “You’ve had a lot of opportunities here, but you’re just not getting it done”. Frenchy is one that I think is on the tail end at this point. I guess you have to give the guy another chance, but don’t rely on him to provide 100 rbi cause it ain’t likely to happen barring a complete turn around. K.J. has no business at first and possibly not on the team period. At best he should platoon in left, but isn’t it time we abandon the platoon project and go get a reliable full-time LF? And if we are talking about Schafer in center, isn’t that just another what if? And let’s not forget about the pitching staff. We had a few young guys surprise us this season, but as a whole it was a disaster. Huddy is the closest thing we have to and ace and he is out for most of next year.

The Braves have completely shunned free agency in the past and if that continues then so will their struggles and our frustration. The Braves want fans to show up and pay $50 per ticket, then they need to make improvements to the team to merit that. We have some very manageable contracts and a supposedly expanding payroll, so Wren has no excuse if he doesn’t get heavily involved in the free agent market and trade market this winter. I for one will not devote my time, energy and money to supporting this franchise if he doesn’t make some sorely needed improvements.

By NCBravesFan

August 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

I think rebuilding could be a good process for everyone. I think the organization would be well suited to see this as a 2-3 year process and not try to sacrifice the future for the possibility of contention in 2009.

(I also think it’s worth mentioning that Cox’s status in 2009 and beyond could be a real hindrance to recruiting free agents in this coming offseason. I think anyone considering signing here, particularly a top-flight guy, is going to want to know what the succession plan is if Cox is saying goodbye after next year.)

Finally, I think the fans have gotten so jaded by the expectation of success, a run of miserable baseball will help them appreciate it more when we finally do turn the corner.

As it is, Turner Field has been a graveyard the past couple of years - the team gets no bounce from the crowd. (Contrast that with the fan reaction in the early 90s, when the Braves began this amazing run.)

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t underestimate Wren’s ability to be creative and aggressive and in so doing, restore the Braves competitive ability in short order — but I think he does have quite a few headwinds to contend with in the next year to 18 months.

By Bruised In Brownsville

August 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

I NEVER write in one of these blogs, but something really struck me. The sheer number of people who don’t realize that Glavine, and to some extent Smoltz, are utilizing past loyalties to dictate how long they get to stick around. Now I’m just a 43 year old female CPA, but I tried to conjure up another business entity in America(And I know this is a business because when players leave via free agency they constantly remind us “It’s a business”) where once an individual demonstrates through performance and an inability to remain healthy that he or she is no longer the best person for a job that they get to stay on the job because of past performance.

Besides the Head Coach at Florida State—I’m a William and Mary grad—-is there another position where you get to stay forever?? because you were ONCE really good??

By Tomahawkin

August 23, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. Ur Quote at 11:29 EST “But for downtown areas only, this ranks as one of the very worst we go to. Not much going on at all, either at night or during days on weekend”

I Kinda figured that…I Haven’t been to da Louie since 05…and I gotta co-sign on how their downtown sucks…Especially Kingshighway….

D.O.B. and all others Thanks on da 411 about da Louie…

By Braves blow now for sure

August 23, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

DOB I feel for ya buddy ,i know having to follow the Braves isnt the best way to finish out the summer .btw whats up with Koch he up and quit the team ? i can understand coming from a winning club to the worse team in the bigs ide be jumping off a brige if it was me.

By Modrod

August 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Just checked Ticketmaster and they have a single seat in section 118 ( on the side closet to the stage ), row C for tonights concert. Beats paying a scalper. You deserve to go after watching that mess from last night.

By Salty Dawg

August 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Playing like champions means that, as a fan, I expect them to win every game and when they lose, they come back twice as hard the next game. This year, unless it was like last night, I wonder how they will figure out how to lose.

I don’t mind the losing so much as I can’t stand the fact that the Braves don’t even appear to belong on the same field with most teams. I certainly don’t expect the team to win every game, but if they lost playing good baseball I would at least be interested in watching. The Braves players should be, and probably are, embarrassed by the way they have played. I’m sure embarrassed to be a fan these days.

By etownbrave

August 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sounds like it is past time for the senior players to have a closed-door meeting and harshly remind some of these guys that they are professional ball players. They are Atlanta Braves. There is no excuse for the lack of teamwork, lack of enthusiasum. Yes, this season is not going as planned, but they still must be play to the absolute best of their abilities. A little fire in the way they play would be nice to see. I love the Braves and it kills me to see them play so uninspired. Hoping for much better things with Campy on the hill for us today!

By etownbrave

August 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sounds like it is past time for the senior players to have a closed-door meeting and harshly remind some of these guys that they are professional ball players. They are Atlanta Braves. There is no excuse for the lack of teamwork, lack of enthusiasum. Yes, this season is not going as planned, but they still must be play to the absolute best of their abilities. A little fire in the way they play would be nice to see. I love the Braves and it kills me to see them play so uninspired. Hoping for much better things with Campy on the hill for us today!

By JL

August 23, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Let me know when the sportswriters and fans finally wake up. In any other major league city, a team that was run like this would be skewered. But never in Atlanta.

Dave, you blame injuries for the Braves woes? They go into the season with two 40+ poitchers and Mike Hampton. Why should we be surprised? Blame management for relying on old and injury prone pitchers. Every team has injuries. Every team works around them. Only the Braves, it seems, are immune from criticism from their fans and the sportswriters who are supposed to be objective.

When the writers begin truly ripping how the team is managed, only then will this team get turned around. Until then, keep making excuses as they sink deeper and deeper in the standings.

By JL

August 23, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Let me know when the sportswriters and fans finally wake up. In any other major league city, a team that was run like this would be skewered. But never in Atlanta.

Dave, you blame injuries for the Braves woes? They go into the season with two 40+ poitchers and Mike Hampton. Why should we be surprised? Blame management for relying on old and injury prone pitchers. Every team has injuries. Every team works around them. Only the Braves, it seems, are immune from criticism from their fans and the sportswriters who are supposed to be objective.

When the writers begin truly ripping how the team is managed, only then will this team get turned around. Until then, keep making excuses as they sink deeper and deeper in the standings.

By Bobby's Cox

August 23, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Scott from Fairburn

Thanks for posting that article on the Twins.

Amazing team with a great manager and GM.

If anyone missed it, here it is again

By McFann Ô

August 23, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58 Lol that is a positive… Good job haha… This is rough

Thanks…Yeah, it’s rough…(N Nine, you’re correct: That is about it as far as positives go for that game.)

But, you know what they say,

If we couldn’t laugh, we would all go insane…

Ahh…But the question is: Was that really “funny”?

By McFann Ô

August 23, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I see a lot of people asking “Why this” and “Why that”…

Remember: Ours is not to question why; ours is but to do or—

Now what’s the rest of that saying……?

By jim

August 23, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Wren did not “build” this team for 2008! The “house” was already constructed. Wren did some “remodeling” on the budget he had to spend.

The only questionable move that Wren made during the off season was signing Glavine and losing a draft choice. But there was a consensus that this team with one more starting pitcher could contend this year and there was a push to have one last go with the nucleus of Cox, Chipper, Smoltz, and Glavine. (Plus Tex was brought here at great expense to enable the team to contend for two years before his FA.)

Had Soriano undergone a dye MRI before signing, what would have been found? Since his stints on the DL, the medical staff has not yet been able to detect a structural problem with his elbow.

Realistically, the first year that the Braves will be competetive with the people currently in their system will be 2011. Wren needs to evaluate which of these players will be significant contributors in the years 2011 and beyond (McCann, JJJ, Heyward, Freeman, Escobar, Hanson, Shafer, …?) and build around this nucleus. We need to add players and prospects that will be around and contributing in 2011, and add draft picks that will allow us to fill in and maintain a level of competitiveness in the subsequent years. One or two more years of brutal futility with a prospect of much brighter days in the offing are preferable to me than to try to make a quick fix with free agent signings for players that will not lift this team beyond mediocrity and will be a drain on the payroll, cost draft picks, and be a block for younger talent when we are ready to contend in 2011 and beyond.

The spare parts on the current roster are either injured or not likely to bring significant return in a trade. CC and Ben are not likely to come to the Braves and long term contracts to pitchers have a way of biting the team that pays them in the second half of the contract — when this team should be ready to contend. Dempster is not a number 1, and will be getting on in age by 2011. We need to draft high impact (preferably college) pitchers that will need a minimum time in the minors in the next 2 or 3 drafts, and, sad to say, the team needs to be bad to get the low picks where the top impact pitchers are available, and to stock up as many of these picks as they can over this period.

This may seem sac religious, but one player who may bring back significant return is Chipper. Since his hot start, Chipper has (a) not hit for power or lately average, (b) been nicked and looked old in the field, (c) played disinterestedly when the team fell out of contention. He would probably not like to be part of a rebuilding program and that is what the Braves need to do for the next couple of years.

By T K Weathersbad

August 23, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

JL, Nice sentiment. Like that woman said earlier, at least I think she was saying it, sports seem to be the only enterprise where past excellent performances grant you a perpetual “Stay Out if Jail” card. Bobby Cox could manage for next 10 years and finish last and you would have the advocates saying “He deserves to stay around as long as he wants. can’t you remember the way things were before he showed up?/” You can’t win when that attitude is prevalent. As the young lady said—Just look at FSU.

By Braveheart

August 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

I see a lot of people asking “Why this” and “Why that”… Remember: Ours is not to question why; ours is but to do or—

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men - Abraham Lincoln

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear - Thomas Jefferson

One who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; one who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. - Chinese proverb

“I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.” -GK Chesterton

By Caleb

August 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, if you want breakfast downtown tomorrow, check out Rooster. It’s at 1104 Locust Street at 11th Street.
http://www.roosterstl.com/

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

It’s funny you mention the “deadness” of downtown St. Louis.

I had training there for about 2.5 weeks back in the fall of 2002 (narrowly missed being there for the World Series that wasn’t).

It’s one of the only “major” downtowns I’ve even been in, in which you felt like you didn’t have to look before you crossed the street.

I was very surprised a year, or so ago, when I heard some commentary (I wanna say Chip Caray, but I’m not sure) talk about how when the Cardinal were in town, it was probably the best downtown atmosphere in all of MLB. Really had me shaking my head with that one. Because you are right, there is nothing happening there. Just the arch, and that makeshift train/depot mall, the Cardinals/bowling hall of fame, and the few evening restaurants.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Her’s how bad Braves power hitting is: Since All-Star break, Greg Norton shares the team home-run lead, with three in 38 at-bats.

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

As the female CPA is well aware, not understanding the concept of a sunk cost can truly ruin a business’ performance.

By McFann Ô

August 23, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Braveheart—

I was just joking…That’s uh…from the Flintstones…

Int’resting quotes, though.

Later!

By Train Wreck Bystander

August 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen an a*-whipping like last night’s since I saw my last Foghorn Leghorn toon.

It’s hard to find any positives in a game like that.

Looking forward to a rebound today. Like I saw higher up in the blog - those one run losses sure do look good now.

By webhead

August 23, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

If Cox retires T.P. will be the next manager Now that’s scarey.

By richbrave

August 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Aren’t you folks being a little rough on WREN.? I mean if he could have spent 120+ million this year doen’t you think he would have.? I say the fault for inadequate personnel lies more with monetary restrictions than shortcomings in the front office. I think being new ownership, LIBERTY wanted to believe this line-up would work, and they could scrimp on payroll to accomplish success. Now they know they cannot.

Great starting pitching begins with huge sums of money near the 20 million range per year.

AARON ROWAND would have been a savior in CF for three years. That is the time line I felt necessary to see positive results from the farm system last October.

As much as I deplored the loss of RENTERIA, JUIRJENS has been a most effective rookie. CHARLIE MORTON will develop in two years into a great #3 pitcher. By then JUIRJENS and HUDSON should be top of the rotation guys. Of course, they will have to be compensated.

Start now and let OHMAN and GONZALEZ know they are appreciated here in ATLANTA by locking up both to fair contracts before the season ends. In two, MOYLAN should have his strength back and SORIANO’s miseries should have been addressed and corrected.

The top of the line-up is missing RENTERIA’s bat. He was the most effective #2 man I’ve see in ATLANTA since JEFF TREADWAY. We need a #1 and #2. If either position is manned by someone like EDGAR, ESCOBAR can be an effective other guy.

Some pieces are here, in my estimation. But not big bats. If FRANCOUER doesn’t bounce back this year and next and become that middle of the line-up home run bashing stick the BRAVES invisioned, I think the organization should go out and get one leaving JEFF in limbo.

The clubhouse lacks firm direction. Maybe BOBBY’s style is old school and the young bucks need a different type of hands-on management.

I do feel the BRAVES coaches are currently suspect. Too many good men like TORRE, WILLIAMS, YOST and CORRALES are now in other organizations and performing well in their positions. Some extra $$$$ might lure one or two to come back.

It’s time for change, and hard decisions have to be made. Best get on with those starting now and into ‘09.

By BossLady

August 23, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Someone mentioned last night that a corporation does not promote managers from a losing deparment.

Because of these failures, Terry will not be the new manager. He has to go since he had no difference making contributions to save what he could. All must go.

By McFann Ô

August 23, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

webhead—

Yes.

To Braveheart Int’resting quotes, though.

…By Abe and GK…

By fieldofdreams

August 23, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

It should be no surprise, in an election year, that the key to the success for our (Brave) Nation starts on the Hill. On a team this bad nobody is untouchable: I say vote Chipper out of office, and elect a couple of young pitchers in his stead. We need a quartet of young, quality starters but at present have just Jurrgens. Rebuild this team with quality pitching, and the rest will take care of itself.

By Tomas

August 23, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

I know Campillo at least will keep this team close. But this team can’t expect a shutout by Campillo. They need at least 7 runs, and to play great defense. Benching Frenchy is not the answer, bench Kelly his range is just enfuriating. I hope to see a different lineup in september. At least this team will have a good pick in the draft. Today I want to see Infante playing second base, and Blanco playing left field. And Kotchman if he comes back from the berevement list. LF Blanco, SS Yunel, 3B Chipper, C Brian McCann, 2B Infante, CF Kotsay, 1B Kotchman, RF Frenchy, P pitcher. They really need a power bat in that outfield. Kotsay is a good player, but he gets injured a lot, and doesn’t produce enough power. In September I want to see different lineups, like Schafer CF, Prado 2B, Chipper 3B, Mac C, Yunel SS, LF Heyward, RF Frenchy, 1B Kotchman. Something like that. I know some of these guys aren’t ready, but who cares, the Braves are playing meaningfull games in August, and in september too. Maybe some of these guys surprise everybody, and demonstrate, they’re here to stay.

By Kendawg

August 23, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Chipper is not going to win the batting title. His average has been steadily dropping for weeks now. Let’s face it, he’s at the end of a productive career. I can’t believe people are actually predicting that Terry Pendleton will be the next Braves manager. He’s not even a decent hitting coach. The Braves should have fired him long ago. I don’t know if it was Frank Wren’s idea to rely on 40 year old pitchers or not, but it was nevertheless a really stupid decision.

By Lew

August 23, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Nothing else worth commenting on so what the Hell? JL-You’re full of crap. If that’s all you can think of as a Braves’ fan-then you ain’t really. Leave and go somewhere you might find happiness. Obviously it isn’t on this blog or as a Braves’ fan. Braves immune from criticism? Dude, can you even read? Or doing so, to comprehend? Doubtful.

By N Nine (fire tavaras now)

August 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

WHAT? Norton our power stroke hitter? Now thats crazy.

DOB did you finally find some breakfast?

By Salty Dawg

August 23, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

This may seem sac religious, but one player who may bring back significant return is Chipper. Since his hot start, Chipper has (a) not hit for power or lately average, (b) been nicked and looked old in the field, (c) played disinterestedly when the team fell out of contention. He would probably not like to be part of a rebuilding program and that is what the Braves need to do for the next couple of years.

Yes, that is sacrilegious. You want them to trade one of the only consistent hitters on the team? Arguably the most popular guy on the team for both fans and other players? The most experienced guy in the clubhouse? The guy who is basically a second coach? The guy all of the other players look up to for guidance? The guy many of the other players go to for hitting instruction and advice? The guy who routinely carries the rest of the team when nobody else is even sniffing a .300 average? The guy who, were it not for the poor play of his teammates would probably already be in excess of 100 rbi yet again? The guy who still has a good chance at the batting title? The guy who too less money to stay in Atlanta and restructured his contract so the team could (supposedly) make improvements to the team?

I’m curious, what is your criteria of a player that we should keep? You ship Chipper out and watch the mass exodus of fans to the door as the rest of the team becomes even more inept. Chipper is one of the few untouchable players on this team.

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Greg Norton: Seattle’s cast-off is our home run king.

Talk about finding a diamond in the rough.

By David-ATL14

August 23, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Manny Acosta recalled form rehab assignment.

DeSalvo sent down.

Hopefully Acosta can help the beleaguered pen.

By N Nine (fire tavaras now)

August 23, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Chipper is not going to win the batting title. His average has been steadily dropping for weeks now. Let’s face it, he’s at the end of a productive career Kendawg

WHAT? How did you become Mr. know it all? Last time i checked he leads MLB in BA AVG. I hate your comments and you should not speak again!

By Tomas

August 23, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Who are the Braves going to call up in september? I think they can call up 15 players but I’m not sure. Josh Johnson, Jordan Schafer, Corky Miller, Jason Heyward, Gorkys Hernandez, Scott Thorman, Brent Lillibridge, Barbaro Canizares, Diory Hernandez, Jorge Julio, Manny Acosta, Damian Moss, Anthony Lerew, and Thomas Hanson. 5 pitchers, and ten players. I would like these players play to see what they got to offer. By the way I was checkings Julio stats, and they’re pretty good, specially lately, he has walked only walked two in his last ten apperance, and hasn’t allowed a run, and has 5 saves in that stretch (the same number of saves as mike gonzales).

By Random

August 23, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79: “no man, its more of a difference bt 5th and 15th place….” Highly doubtful, but whatever — NO draft pick in the next draft is going to help us next year, or the year after, or (probably) the year after that. This ain’t the NBA.

“So keep acting like the top draft picks dont matter…just look at the Brewers!! Sheets, Fielder,….or the young players the Marlins have….. and tell me the draft dosent matter!” Never said that — just that it won’t matter for next year.

By Salty Dawg

August 23, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

The top of the line-up is missing RENTERIA’s bat. He was the most effective #2 man I’ve see in ATLANTA since JEFF TREADWAY. We need a #1 and #2. If either position is manned by someone like EDGAR, ESCOBAR can be an effective other guy.

Good point. It doesn’t do much good to have a guy hitting .350 in the 3 spot if there is nobody setting the table.

We need 1/2 guys that hit for average and 3/4 guys that hit for power. Even as the catcher, I think McCann would make a good 3 or 4 hitter next year. He can hit for power or average as the situation dictates. It seems like the trend for the Braves is everyone trying to hit the long ball, but small ball wins games. Get a guy on base, move him over, get him in. All of these shut out games is infuriating. Long ball is fine facing a guy you can actually take out of the park, but when you run into a solid ground ball pitcher you have nothing. I really think that is part of Frenchy’s problem. He came into this season thinking he was going to hit 40 homers and instead he can’t even get the ball in play. People keep talking about the loss of power from Chipper, but I would rather have a guy who can strategically place the ball depending on the defense and the pitcher. Chipper does that better than just about anybody.

By Lew

August 23, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

JL-Just so you don’t think that’s an unjustified attack for no reason, let’s look at your 12:19 post.

You say that any other city would skewer their team-Do you perhaps actually read this blog? The blog DOB wrote AND the responses, thereto? If you did, you would realize how completely ludicrous your statement is. All many here do and have done for the past three years is to rip the Braves, their HOF manager, Jeff Francoeur, the Front Office, the price of concessions, Jeff Francoeur, Bobby Cox, the parking situation, Jeff Francoeur and Bobby Cox, the lack of transportation to the ballpark, the prices of beer, Jeff Frabncoeur, and the F##king Chopping Cow. Read all of N8’s posts. Ripped? Every flipping day-ad nauseum and ad infinitum (Latin, Dude, look it up in Wikipedia)

Second, Injuries-Again, if you’d bothered to read the blog in recent weeks, you might have seen the discussion on the difference between explanations and excuses. Again, obviously you didn’t read anything. This team, with a 25 player active roster, has placed not only 44 players on the active roster this season, but there have been 20 players for a total of 28 trips to the DL. Now yes, there are a team or two with more, but not a factor? Get flipping real. Whether or not you thought injuries were inevitable, nothing to this extent could POSSIBLY have been envisioned or planned for. Do you seriously think that with a normal Smoltz or Glavine season, much less not losing Hudson, that there might not have been different results? How about the entire season losses of Moylan and Soriano? Any adverse effect from that? Rhetorical question, Dude, you SHOULD know what the answer to that is.

As for relying on 40+ year old players (No One counted on Hampton at all, and actually by the end of the season, he may well have contributed more than Glavine AND Smoltzie)-yes, you’re right there-it was NOT an optimum condition, but given budgetary constraints (and previously negotiated terrible contracts like Hampton’s) put in place by previous owners, there was no other way to go BUT to rely on these older pitchers, one of whom had NEVER spent time disabled throughout a 20 year career. Who exactly would YOU have signed that would have been better or cost the money they’ve made this year? I promise you would have done no better. Losing Hudson not a factor? Tell me you’re not serious. It was devastating-both for the remainder of 08 and likely, all of 09 as well.

As for writers ripping on upper management-???????? You really think that would make a difference to anyone but you and three other fans? You really think that would have Terry McGuirk, Frank Wren and Bobby Cox running around like headless chickens yelling “We’ve been ripped by the media. We MUST correct things and make them love us again!!!!!” Not bloody likely. As for DOB ripping on management-How long do you truly believe he would have access to the players and management, whose quotes and comments he needs to to do his job and keep worthless fans like you and me informed?

Again, maybe if you read more of what DOB and others here post, you might actually learn something instead of ranting like a clueless jerk. In case you haven’t noticed (and it’s obvious you haven’t), DOB does question some of Bobby’s moves in the blog. What do you think would be the beneficial result of him walking up to BC pregame and telling him he makes moronic moves? Again, if you had been reading instead of ranting, you would have seen several posts talking about the difference between Beat Writing, which is what DOB does and what columnists do, which is rip-complain to Jeff Schultz and Terence Moore, not DOB and the MIB Blog.

Yes, this season has been terrible, putrid, disgusting, frustrating and any other adjective, adverb or (choose your part of speech). Next year may well be bad, too as the Braves try to regroup and make improvements, now that $45 million is coming off of the books. Why not wait and see what the Brass does with this to improve the team? Give the New Management Team a chance to prove their worth (Wren DID make two masterful moves last winter). Not only might you be surprised at the results, but you might save yourself from looking like AND IDIOT.

Thus endeth MY rant.

By Lew

August 23, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Brent A-What do you think of a deal with the Royals, sending them Francoeur, Kelly Johnson and a minor league player for Grienke? Solves our top of the rotation problem, leaves us with Prado to play second and no worse off in the outfield than we are now, with more $$$$$ to spend on a #3 starter and power bat for the OF.

By BT

August 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Lew, it may have been a rant but it hit the nail on the head!

Kind of worried about DOB and his relationship in the clubhouse after his very direct blog.

By DC

August 23, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

We are terrible! I am all about ATLANTA sports and we are TERRIBLE in every one of them. As much as I like Bobby and what he done and accomplished we need some new blood on the bench. TERRY P. BLOWS and BOBBY is sucking it up to. From leaving pitchers in the game to long to putting together terrible line-ups, we need someone new. Braves nation, get ready for a bunch of loosing seasons because our problems are far from being fixed.

By David-ATL14

August 23, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Lew very insightful post at 2:06P

The lack of baseball savy and journalism displayed here by far too many is staggering.

By N Nine (fire tavaras now)

August 23, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

lew im ok without the extra prospect for the pitcher..the two we giving up has “potential” hahah

By NCBravesFan

August 23, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

BT - He doesn’t need me to speak for him, but I suspect that most of the Braves agree with quite a bit of the original post. It’s not like he’s airing someone’s dirty laundry - no names or specific info that would point you in any one player’s direction + he’s sharing his opinion, not necessarily the gospel truth.

By TC

August 23, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

WILLIE HARRIS HAS MORE HRs THAN ANY OUTFIELDER ON THE BRAVES (12).

WOW

By AFnPC

August 23, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

As long as the Braves are owned by Liberty Media they will completely suck! There is no team in professional sports, owned by a corporation that is successful year in year out…We need A. Blank to purchase the Braves and return them to the prominence that T. Turner had them in the 90s. Until then, it’s back to the 80s and before with an empty Turner Field and more mid-season sell-offs than the stock market.

By Anders

August 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Lew

Read your 2:06 post. Sorry but this whole DL thing can’t be total shock. The fact that Smoltz,Kotsay,Chipper and Hampton have spent time on the DL should suprise no one. Glavine and Hudson I’ll give you. Wren constructed a team with a few very aged guys in key spots and some guys with injury histories in a couple of other key spots. Right now you have almost all your starting position players back and they look putrid on the field. That’s on Cox.

Now for DOB to just accept Cox’s statement last night with no push back or at least editorializing is ludicrous. I mean this in all seriousness - Do I have something wrong here? Is the fact that he’s a beat writer mean all he does is report what they say as opposed to a columnist who passes opinion. I’m not being a wise a.. with this but I’m really befuddled how Cox’s statement last night could just be passed along with no opinion.

By varoadrunner

August 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Lew must be an a$$

Someone posts their opinions and you feel you must belittle them? As far as I am concerned, you can start blogging with the MUTS. Go away!

BUt wait, if you are so well informed that you THINK you know more than the rest of us, you must be a MUT.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Manny Acosta activated from DL, DeSalvo sent away.

By TennesseePaul

August 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Lew: After this season I don’t think this franchise needs to worry about the season ticket holders when viewing possible deals of Face of the Franchise players. So I’d look at what it would take to get a great young starter. Francoeur and KJ or whatever. I’d line up all the deals first. Moving Francoeur would require obtaining even more outfielders… There is a ton of work to do. Hopefully Wren doesn’t pull off more foolishness like Aybar for Ridgway or 8 million and a top draft pick for Glavine.

Man this stinks. I lost the use of my right hand a while back… blogging is not that easy now. It’s taken 20 minutes to type this…

By brent a.

August 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Lew:

I honestly don’t know much about Greinke. But, in principle, I am fine with trading Kelly Johnson and Francoeur for pitching, even in the same deal.
There is always the potential to regret a trade (which, IMO, is part of the reason why so many fall through); but, if Francoeur were to turn his career around in another city, I personally, would be very happy for him. But, as for right now, I think it is in many ways too risky to keep him around ‘til next year to see what he can do. Because, by casting him off, you force yourself to go out and make a move to replace him; whereas, if he comes back next year and he looks like he does now, then you are potentially looking for another stop-gap right fielder, while potentially falling through standings because your outfield has no pop.

As far as Johnson goes, I’ve alweays wanted to like him; however, I do not think he is a second baseman. He looks mechanical and uncomfortable at second, and IMO, his bat has not been strong enough to classify him as someone that has to be somewhere on the field, regardless of his defense.

Now, as far as the minor-leaguer goes, one would think it would have to be a pitcher (to get a pitcher in return), and that always raises the question of “which one”, and can we really afford to give up pitching right now. I think we can, so long as we A) trade for a good starter, while B) also signing a quality FA pitcher. Because then, you have at least 3 quality starters next season with JJ, the FA, and the pitcher acquired via trade.

As far as Prado at 2nd. I like him, and he continues to hit. However, whether or not I see it, I always have a tendency to believe a lot of the negative comments I read from people about what happens when someone who struggled in the minors, blah, blah, blah…

Point being, while I personally wouldl be okay with Prado starting (especially if Infante is still coming off the bench in a utility capacity), I’m not going to be all gung ho and be certain that he will be able to do everyday, what he has done in a limited role over the last year, or so.

So, in sum, if Greinke is the guy, then yes, I’m okay with the concept of a trade like that; but, I’m not gonna sit here behind my computer and pretend like I know for certain that Prado can provide us as much, or more than KJ, so we can do this without concern of a further fall-off at second base.

By Goodoleboy58

August 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

I know some of yall aren’t high on Ryan Dempster but man he’s pitching lights out again today

By Navigator

August 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

I’ll say it, the Braves are bad and they used to be good. Remember what so many have said, the Braves are good because Cox is such a great manager. Now they are bad, and he’s a horrible manager. Folks, if you heap praise, you have to also have to also point out the failings the same way. Now let’s be truthful, the Braves didn’t win because of Cox and they are losing because of him either. The fact is, manager’s can stay too long at the same place. It’s happened to the Dodgers, the Yankees, even the Rays and now the Braves. This team has quit, and the manager is no longer effective. The Braves really need new blood at the Manager spot, just like those other franchises. The front office needs to spend a while to sort out who can come in and create a different atmosphere here.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 23, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Lew,

If the Braves can make that deal you mentioned at 2:12, they have to do it.

The optimistic side of my bipolar self said hoped that the 2009 Braves could be competitive again with only one front-line starter, a Dempter or Duchscherer or (fat chance he’s available) Lackey. That was based on confidence that Morton and JoJo could lock down the #3-#4 slot behind JJ and the new starter with Campillo in the mix, too.

Now the negative side (the realistic side?) takes over. Morton and JoJo continue to show so many growing pains I’m not sure you can simply hand them slots in the rotation next year.

The Braves need to find two new anchors for the rotation and if one or more of the kids win their way into the starting slots, then the Braves will have (wait for it) depth.

By Goodoleboy58

August 23, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

JD Drew has a herniated disk in his back.. May see the DL… Just speculating but they could revisit the Kotsay deal… No substance to this just throwing it out there

By steve

August 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Thank God Skip didnt live to have to endure this….

By Peter Clemenza

August 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Oh, DeSalvo? Won’t see him no more.

By SoWeGa Fanatic

August 23, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

This list from AJC’s Braves page is a microcosm of this season. Incredible: MORE BRAVES HEADLINES / MLB NEWS Braves embarrassed by skid, 18-3 loss
Braves sign veteran pitcher Lopez
Braves swept away by Mets
Former Brave Sosa suspended 50 games
Tom Glavine has elbow and unexpected shoulder surgery
Jurrjens can’t overcome Braves defense, Mets
Kotchman leaves Braves to be with ailing mom

By Chop Chop

August 23, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Rodrigo Lopez…

(Damn. I was holding out for Albie.)

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

SoWeGa, that was funny. And you’re right, it’s kinda accurate.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy58

One week to the deadline. Anything could happen.

By Steve from OH

August 23, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you see Kotsay getting traded before Sept. 1? The Red Sox may have need with JD Drew going down.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Anders: “Without any push back or editorializing”? What are you talking about? Do you have even the foggiest idea of what the difference is between a reporter or beat writer and a columnist? Do you? Because, see, that’s what a columnist does, his job is to editorialize, to write his opinions.

A reporter is paid to cover the news. While a beat writer is paid to analyze what he’s watching, and while a veteran beat writer might be given some leeway in terms of slipping a colorful phrase or opinionated-type description of events, he certainly is not paid to take the manager to task for a quote he doesn’t agree with or finds illogical or whatever.

You really are having a hard time understanding the difference, aren’t you? I can’t be expected to be an objective observer of events if I’m going to ridicule or refute the statements of the very people I cover. if you’re not smart enough to read between the lines like so many others here obviously are, then sorry, but that’s on you.

You derive some sense of satisfaction by seeing the manager’s quotes ripped by members of the media? If you know they’re not logical, that they’re silly or whatever, do you have to see someone write that so you can feel, I don’t know, like it’s been confirmed to you? What are you looking for, exactly? I write an entire blog yesterday about a very sensitive subject, a blog that frankly could put me on bad terms with some people I use as sources or people that I need to talk to on a regular basis, and all you can say at the end of the day is you’re upset that I didn’t “come back” at the manager for saying something we all probably had the same reaction to?

Dude, I wrote a game story. I wasn’t going to sit here all night writing a follow-up blog and ripping the manager for saying it wasn’t embarrassing and that those kind of games happen. Sorry, but you’re going to have to find some other avenue for your smugness and some other place to have your feelings and believed confirmed and seconded at every whim. We don’t exist to satisfy you, Anders.

We’re supposed to be an objective news organization, reporting what is happening. We leave it to the columnists to take sides, ridicule, etc. That’s what they do. If you don’t like it, start your own blog or go work for a paper, I guess. I mean, I don’t know what else to tell you. You’re one miserable guy, aren’t you? I mean, just lighten up a bit, man. It’s baseball. We’re covering and reading about and watching baseball.

By Couch Tater

August 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DeSalvo was strangled last night. You think they will trade him to Boston?

By mbatl

August 23, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

KJ would be better in RF than Frenchy. Prado would be as good at 2b as KJ, or better. (Plus you’ve got guys like Lillibridge, Hicks and Diory who might turn into good middle infielders)

I say make that move, trade Francouer for whatever you can get, and start an OF of KJ, Schafer and Diaz/Brandon Jones/Blanco… though we should look at a guy like Burrell (that’s what we really need for ‘09, but it’s gonna take a long contract and I’m not sure that’s a good idea with Heyward on the horizon).

Do that, and add 1 topline starter and maybe 1 #4/5 (a John Thomson type, though not him of course), and you don’t have to give up on 2009. I think Escobar, KJ and Kotchman are all better hitters than they’ve shown this year. The ‘09 team won’t be a beast, but I don’t think it’s that far from being competitive in the NL East.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy, that’s not at all farfetched, about Kotsay and Boston. Makes a lot of sense.

By Kendawg

August 23, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Some people don’t like reality. It doesn’t take a lot of knowledge about baseball to observe that Chipper’s average has been steadily declining for weeks. If you are deluded enough to still think that he is going to win the batting title, so be it. But you’re wrong.

By Goodoleboy58

August 23, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

How do we not score 1st and 3rd nobody out… Amazing.. Come on guys

By BravesFanInRockies

August 23, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Before the recent collapse, Wren was quoted as saying he’d be looking at a few players when the rosters expand.

If he’s worth his salt, he’ll call up everybody he can get away with and should even consider DFAing some guys who aren’t likely to make the club next year.

With few exceptions, (Heap, Chipper, Yunel, a handful of pitchers), the entire the 40-man roster should treat these final 30-some games as an audition for 2009.

The team’s fall has been breathtaking. The fan frustration is understandable for a host of reasons:

As DOB pointed out, we’re just not used to seeing a lack of professionalism from the Braves.

On another level, these guys are getting paid a lot to play a game and entertain. The last player on the roster is making a hell of a lot more money, I’m guessing, than just about anyone who reads or posts on this blog. To see them whine and pout and dog it is infuriating. If any of us were talented, young or healthy enough to trade places with them, we’d do it in a heartbeat.

Anyone who takes that for granted deserves whatever anger/scorn/resentment that’s coming.

Play for pride at least.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Kendawg, I’m just getting ready to write a note about Chipper’s declining average. Talked to him this morning.

He s aid his left-handed swing is completely out of kilter right now, and until he gets it back he’ll be scratching for a hit. Said he needs to get “Pops” in to work with him. No, he wasn’t talking about Willie Stargell. He meant his dad, who has, of course, frequently worked with Chipper on his swing through the years when he’s slumped.

By bravos2249

August 23, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

DOB

do you think the Red Sox would get rid of Buckholz for Kotsay?

considering he’s struggled in Boston. he is a young player and all.

By braves70

August 23, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

I see Carl Pavano is pitching for the Yankees today. He is the American League’s Mike Hampton and will be a FA at year’s end. We just signed Rodrigo Lopez. How about we pick up Pavano and bring back Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton. We would never know who the starting pitcher for that day would be since they all would be prone to long stays on the DL.

It is interesting to listen to Leo Mazzone doing the game for Fox TV.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 23, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Anders,

I know you take great joy in getting under our (and DOB’s) skin, but yeah man, figure it out.

The AJC’s columnists are a lot more deferential to the hometown teams than the guys are in New York (or Denver, or any other city that still has more than one newspaper, I’m guessing— and Denver probably won’t have two dailies forever).

Don’t blame DOB for taking on a role that’s not his. Blame Bradley and Moore and Bisher, et al.

By hoho

August 23, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

please excuse me, but DFAing???

By T K Weathersbad

August 23, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Right now I have NO doubt that if Larry”Childish Nickname” Jones had a COMFORTABLE lead in the batting race and with enough At Bats to qualify that he would shut it down as fast as he “sits up Lame” getting out of bed in the morning.

A TREMENDOUS hitter, BUT a CANINE of near epic proportion!!

AND I’ll even tell you ONE of the ancillary reasons why I can’t stand him. First off, I have NEVER asked a human being to sign a piece of paper—It is a MORONIC social interaction, BUT I tend to have empathy for people who are in uneven exchanges and I have seen the Rhodes Scholar from the Bolles School in those situations—and I was lessed than impressed which has contributed to my disgust for him as a laggard and a human being, but has not colored my impression of him as one of the 10 GREATEST hitters of the last 100 years.

By Patrick

August 23, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Here’s a parody about the 2008 season (sung to the tune of “Seasons In The Sun”)

We lost Smoltz and then Glavine For every start paid Hampton 5 million Thought we’d beat the Mets and Phillies But we lost Soriano and the Aussie Can’t win at all without Huddy

When KJ dropped that infield fly It was the start of our demise With Frenchy’s swing in need of repair To the minors they did dare He said it all seemed so unfair

There’s no joy, no home runs This season’s come undone On Chipper’s back they tried to climb Too bad his hours aren’t full time

Oh, Mr. Wren we pray to thee We need more than Omar Infante How could it all turn out so dark Picked to win it all by Jayson Stark 08 truly a “Bark In The Park”

Goodbye Corky I almost cried You couldn’t find the Mendoza Line To single Bobby out is so unfair There’s plenty of blame to share Does Liberty Media even care?

There’s no joy, no home runs When your bench is Gotay and Norton Tex was all about the cash And his agent’s such an a*

There’s no joy, no home runs Our future is uncertain And the only solace I can find Is LA pays for Andruw’s big behind

By etownbrave

August 23, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Campy rocks! Throwing 1st pitch strikes and being confident in what he is throwing is nice to see. Now if we can stop leaving men on base!!!

By BravesFanInRockies

August 23, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

hoho,

Means designating for assignment — a 50-cent term for releasing. (50 cents doesn’t buy what it used to, of course.)

By SoWeGa Fanatic

August 23, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

He s aid his left-handed swing is completely out of kilter right now, and until he gets it back he’ll be scratching for a hit. Said he needs to get “Pops” in to work with him. No, he wasn’t talking about Willie Stargell. He meant his dad, who has, of course, frequently worked with Chipper on his swing through the years when he’s slumped. DOB, dude can’t afford an airplane ticket or something? Can Pops help these other guys? Maybe they can pool their pennies for that ticket.

By bravos2249

August 23, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

to say a guy hitting .360 and is in his mid 30’s is at the end of his career is very idiotic

By Sonny Corleone

August 23, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

I hope Clemenza remembered to bring the canolis.

By Brian

August 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I was listening to a radio show here in Chattanooga and they had a Braves scout on and he talked about how there minor leagues are even better than the early 90’s. Sounds like Gorkys Hernandez,Heyward,Hanson, and Brandon Hicks are for real. He said Hernandez and Josh Anderson should be competing for CF next year. They were also p** about Anderson not being called by now. They were confident in Wren and the trades he’s already made, but not so much in Cox and his crazy decisions this year. By the way, can Francoeur see- he has slow reactions at the plate. I know, who cares anymore

By SoWeGa Fanatic

August 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure playing for one run is the way to go here, not after last night.

By Jamie in Richmond

August 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

So I guess one of you knuckleheads will be telling me again how Prado is still nothing more than a “fringer player” even though his average is up to near .330 now. Right. Martin’s a hiting stud. Love that guy…

By BossLady

August 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Back out of this page to the Braves front page. Now, do you see those four guys on the left, yes, with the pictures. Those are the AJC Braves reporters and columnists.

Did you notice that there is no picture of DOB and no byline.

Like our leader just explained you should go to their sites and rip their A$$.

This is a Braves baseball blog, ie an exchange of ideas and opinions by the local beat writer and fans.

As a Braves fan I would rather know what is going on day to day and find out what the inside story is on the players.

By StingerSplash

August 23, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I went to Springsteen last weekend in Jacksonville and there were about 1,000 empty seats. Most distressing that someone who is still one of the great live acts today and is one of the great live acts of all-time couldn’t sell out in a city he hasn’t been to more than 25 years. On the Braves radio network, Pete just said Springsteen and LaRussa are friends and LaRussa will probably go to tonight’s show. There was some talk Springsteen might come by the stadium. I don’t care how much he likes Springsteen, I still can’t stand LaRussa.

By bravos2249

August 23, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

just saying, but shouldn’t that be the HITTING COACH’S job?

honestly if he can’t help a guy he’s known for 10+ years then how is that going to make anyone think he can fix a guy he’s known for 3?

By McFann Ô

August 23, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Well, they had a lead, anyway…

Heard about the DP…”nice”.

That’s .292 with RISP with the 0-2 today. .297 on the year.

By Bobbymahlon

August 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB—- By the way Norton got hurt by a throw from Chipper not Escobar that if he handeled it like any good firstbaseman he would have avoided injury.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

bravos2249, one would think so.

By N Nine (fire tavaras now)

August 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Kendawg you just don’t get it. You forgot what you wrote. You said he needs to just retire and that he’s done…something like that. If you think he won’t win BA Title, so be it(thats your opinion). But, the dude is leading all 700 something player in batting average! yes he’s struggling, but to say he’s done with baseball is being assinine. Like your comments are.

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Stinger, I’d suggest it was more a reflection on Jacksonville than anything else. I mean, Van Morrison could probably play a mid-sized venue in Jax and not sell out.

Yes, LaRussa and Springsteen are friends, at least to some degree, and LaRussa is definitely going to the show tonight.

By Goodoleboy58

August 23, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Lot of hanging off-speed pitches… Not the customary down in the zone from Camp

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

They post both teams’ lineups side-by-side here on the scoreboard, with just their batting average next to each guy’s name.

So with Chipper and Pujols each batting third, their names are side-by-side. You can see Hoss’ lead in the batting race shrink with almost each at-bat, down to .360-.356.

By fastasballs

August 23, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves farm system is going to produce more than people think. Myrtle Beach is going to the playoffs in advanced A ball & Mississippi should hold onto to win their division & go the playoffs in AA.

If Hanson had enough innings at AA, Mississippi would have three of the top 5 in ERA in the league. Redmond (acquired for Tyler Yates) has a 12-5 record, 3.54 ERA & a league leading WHIP of 1.19, also only has walked 29 in 155 innings.

My sleeper is Medlen, he strikes out a batter an inning & is 4th in the league in ERA at 3.62 with only 26BB in 115 innings. His record is only 6-8, but his stats are much better than that. I’m fairly sure he is a converted position player.

Hanson is 7-3 3.27 ERA with 99 SO in 88 innings. WHIP is 1.10. Parr is also having a decent year at AA.

Even if Jo Jo, Campillo & Morton doesn’t work out those three guys could be ready as soon as next season at some point. There’s another wave of great arms at the lower levels, Francis, Tehran, Diamond, Dumesnil (closer), Rohrbough & Hodges just to name a few.

Other than Johnson (160 plus K’s)Heyward, Owings, & Cabrera there isn’t a lot of power in the outfield. Loads of speed & good gloves, but not a lot of power.

There isn’t many promising prospects at 3rd base. Seems like a real weak spot in the organization. 1B was, but with the emergence of Freeman I’d say it’s ok right now. Lots of middle infielders, but none that make you say WOW. I like Travis Jones at Myrtle Beach, lots of power for a second sacker, but he only is hitting about .250.

Plus the Braves are looking at a possible top 5 draft pick next season. If they go with a college player he is much more likely to help within two seasons than a high school player will. It’s way too early to tell what players will be available to draft. Hopefully a third baseman can be had with the second round pick.

I do hope Schafer gets a call up in Sept. It would be fun watch an outfield with he, Anderson & Blanco. Not a lot of power, but Lord they would cover some ground & play havoc on the bases.

By Lew

August 23, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

VaRoadrunner-I suppose it takes an a$$ to recognize another, doesn’t it? I suppose that it’s OK for some Moron to rant about ripping people he doesn’t know and yelping about accountability as if he deserved to have a say in anything, but if I respond to a nameless, anonymous idiot (much like Yourself, come to think of it), that I’m in the wrong? Whatever. Your And Idiot,too. Get over yourself and try (occasionally) to post something insightful, instead of relying on your own vitriolic rhetoric and hyperbole while hiding behind another anonymous nom de plume. (that’s French- go look it up in Wikipedia).

Anders-Go re-read the paragraph starting with-As for relying on 40+ pitchers-I’ve already pretty much addressed what you were saying. Quite honestly, Dude, the injuries were a very small part of the point I was making. Go back and read it again. It’s all pretty self explanatory.

BravesFanInRockies-I agree that we need a number one and a number three starter next year. MY thought process on picking up Grienke was that he was good, young and relatively cheap for a bit longer. Also, given our past with Dayton Moore and his knowledge of our organization, we could likely make a deal for Frenchy (his friend), Kelly and another lesser piece or two (without giving up Hanson, Teheran, Schafer or Heyward) and not have to spend inordinate amounts on Free Agency-we’re probably NOT going to get Sheets or Sabathia, but maybe a decent #3 can be had.

With a Rotation of Jurrjens, Grienke, #3 Guy, Campillo and Morton/Reyes holding down the fifth slot, we should have a pretty good rotation capable of saving bullpen arms and still have enough $$$$ left over to get some power in the outfield and a good fielding 2B. Makes sense to me and might just get us a lot better real fast.

I also would feel much better were we to see something positive from Kotchman. I know he’s been under a lot with his Mom’s illness and the culture shock of coming from the Angels like he did, but I haven’t seen anything so far to recommend him as confidence inspiring. If he can come around and be the .285, 20-25 HR, 85+ RBI, then I will feel much better about the next few years at first.

By Savannah Guy

August 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Ripped? Every flipping day-ad nauseum and ad infinitum (Latin, Dude, look it up in Wikipedia)

Lew, that was funny. I went ahead and looked it up for the Dude. Couldn’t find it on Wiki. Not sure, but I think Flipping Day-Ad Nauseum was a really bad Latin post-punk, alternative fictitious band in the mid 80’s.

Ad Infinitum was the title of their fourth, self-financed album. Sounded a lot like their first, second and third, so nobody bought any of them after getting nauseated on the first. Couldn’t write or play worth a damn but they persisted.

Out of tune screaming teen angst. Not pretty, but based on some of the posts around here, there may be a comeback yet for meaningless, aggravating noise. Maybe title the new release Groundhog Day.

Funny how blog-life imitates, uh, art.

By Goodoleboy58

August 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Wow Pujols… Are we just trying to give him the batting title?

By David O'Brien

August 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Make that .360-.357.

By StingerSplash

August 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Saw David Bowie in Jax on the Sound and Vision tour and that was close to, if not completely, sold out. A story from that show — we’re on the floor for the show and two guys get into a scuffle. Someone nearby goes, “Hey, this is a David Bowie show, not a Lynyrd Skynyrd show.” We were thinking, you know, maybe even a comment that is even only a little derogatory toward the late Mr. Van Zant and his band in the heart of their hometown is maybe not such a good thing.

Oh, Mr. Pujols is a bad, bad, bad man. Madre Mia, the young man is one-man wrecking machine.

By Savannah Guy

August 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

anonymous nom de plume. (that’s French- go look it up in Wikipedia)

Sounds familiar. Maybe a French glam rock band of, say the late 70’s, but Wiki and nobody else never heard of ‘em. Could be because they hid behind masks made of peacock feathers and such. Not sure, but they must’ve been really weird and a bit light in the italian loafers.

By mbatl

August 23, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

fastasballs, good summary. My only disagreement is, why call Schafer up this year and start his options clock? If he’s indeed “the future” in CF, wouldn’t it make sense to avoid calling him up this year, and be in a better position with him down the road? Let him finish the minor league season, maybe play some Winter ball, and then show up for ST ready to go.

I think you have to keep “options” in mind when thinking about who to call up in September.

Oh, and I think Eric Cambell, after a late start, has had a pretty good season and might be back in the mix in 3B for the future. No? (1B Kaaihue has als