Braves

By brian

August 21, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

1st?

By TURTSNAP

August 21, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Perhaps we could actually be the first team to score a run tonight? That would be nice for a change

By Raleigh Brave

August 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say. This “team” might not win 70 games. And all that would mean would be playing around .500 ball. Right? For this bunch, .500 is a tall order. Could they lose 100?

By Lee in S GA

August 21, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Didn’t realize Campbell has a new CD release. Always liked him…figured I was one of the few. What a h3ll raiser though.

By Clerks III

August 21, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Dave

Do you think we are in for a decade of horrible baseball in Atlanta, like in the 80s or is this just a one year thing and next year we will compete at least for a freaken wild card spot.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

that was a good Q and A with shafer. it seems like i remember when this came out, someone mentioned that you can get suspended under HGH rule if you know about someone using it. meaning, if someone on shafer’s team was using HGH, and he knew about it, but didnt report him…?

anyways, he basically insists in the Q and A that he wasnt using, so if thats true, his great numbers last year werent because of HGH. thats good. id like to se him up in september. maybe he will be ready for the show in’09 despite missing those 50 games at AA.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

neither has pitched more than seven innings in 18 starts between them this season.

So…Pedro’s goin’ 8 tonight, huh?

By chris

August 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Any guesses on who the September callups might be? Could we see LeRew?

Chris from MD

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Lew

From last blog…

Why are you so angry? I’m merely stating my opinion. It may or may not be right. But that’s what this blog is for - people to express their opinions and discuss it with other people.

I’m sorry that you don’t agree with me but your posts towards me really seem attacking in nature. I’m not trying to cry about it or anything - I’m just wondering if you intend them to be that way or if I am reading them wrong. It’s obviously difficult to figure out tone when all it is is type.

Last time I checked - we both wanted the same thing - success for the Braves. It’s not like I’m on here just saying “Bobby is a donk” over and over. I’m trying to explain my views on what is wrong with this team.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

From last blog…

Thanks for the backup N8. I didn’t feel like looking up all the people that had predicted the Braves in the World Series.

I think Buster Olney did too.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

it looks like chipper’s hot streak has ended. for while it seemed like at least a blog a week included stats from chipper starting in june last year or something, where he has just been unbelievable for a very long period of time. he is definetly slumping…but is still hitting .363….thats amazing. i hope he will get hot again. if he can stay over .360, i think he will win it.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I hope we go into the game realizing it’s not the same Pedro these kids watched growing up

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

DAP

Yes, Chipper is definitely struggling. I’m sure watching the team collapse around him makes it hard to “get up” for each at bat. He has got to be frustrated.

At least he works counts and acts like he cares. Most of the hitters on this team swing at the first pitch so they can go back and sit on the bench and eat sunflower seeds.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the shout-out on the accountibility tree. I really worked hard on it so I’m glad you liked it.

To answer your question - Liberty Media is accountible to their share holders - as is any other company.

If they are privately owned (I have no idea but I assume they are public) then they are not accountable to anyone. They can do whatever they want with their investement.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Grady Sizemore had 7 RBI’s today from the leadoff spot thats incredible

By Lucas Land

August 21, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

N8 - from previous blog

Obviously I don’t pay much attention to pre-season MLB picks by ESPN. I think I see why now.

By retiredscout

August 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Will Chipper win the batting title? Doubtful. When he was pushing .400 and getting good pitches to hit, don’t forget Texeira was hitting behind him…that’s a major part of the reason he got off to such a good start. After Texeira was gone he was “protected” by the hapless Kotchman, or Infante…no reason to give Jones good pitches to hit anymore. Also contributing to his slide were his annual stints on the bench with various “tweaks”..these rest periods are called career extenders, but it is hard to stay sharp when you sit down so much. He might still win the title, though if he gets enough at bats. My guess is if he has a lead in the race a couple of weeks into Sept., he will get a “tweak” and try to back in.

By VaBravesfan

August 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB: Heard that song a million times, never knew the name of it.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Quick question.

Have the hits on this blog (per day, per week or however they get measured) gone down as the season has gone into the toilet or have they gone up as people log on to complain/vent?

Just curious.

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

For the ESPN Insiders, Neyer has an interesting article, “Reviewable plays from baseball history.” Here’s one:

Game 2, 1991 World Series

With two outs in the third inning, Atlanta’s Ron Gant shot a single into left field, and teammate Lonnie Smith scooted from first base to third. But as the Sporting News Baseball Guide later noted, “As Gant tried to retreat to first after rounding the bag, 250-pound first baseman Kent Hrbek took a throw from pitcher Kevin Tapani and seemed to lift the 172-pound Gant off the base while applying a tag. Umpire Drew Coble ruled that momentum had carried Gant off the bag and called the baserunner out. End of rally, end of inning.”

The Braves wound up losing that game 3-2, and they wound up losing an incredibly close Series in seven games. And for most of those watching the replays, there was little doubt that Hrbek had broken the rules.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Are you trying to bring tears to my eyes? Come on now

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

retiredscout, since Tex left Chipper is hitting .308.

Last year before July 31, when he was mostly hitting in front of a horrible Andruw Jones, he hit .340. His batting average was actually a little lower after Tex came last season (.333).

By BA

August 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Hrbek was a jrk.

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

retiredscout, also, a key for Chipper may be getting just enough plate appearances to qualify. Not that Chipper would sit out games on purpose (not trying to be sarcastic though I’m sure some will take it that way) but if he happens to sit, it may help him win the thing.

By Curtis Jones

August 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

David, thanks for the update on NYC (luv my annual visits there, you’re right about the scenery and Glen Campbell. Very underrated singer and musician…I’ll look up the new CD. Quick question: occasionally on this site, there will be a reference to Escobar’s state of mind. Something about needing constant reassurance from Renteria, Brayan Pena, etc. What’s up with that?

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

For those talking about trading Chipper: Are we really going to get equal value for him? Even if we aren’t going to win this year or next, don’t we still want the younger players to be able to go to him for help and emulate him? Just look at McCann. He’s constantly singing Chipper’s praises for helping him and I saw today on mlb.com where Teixeira was too. Don’t you think keeping him around will actually help in the long run, especially with younger players coming up now?

What’s the harm in keeping him around for the next few years until we have a replacement ready, say Jon Gilmore?

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun—

Is he sure that umpire wasn’t Joe West?

; >

Horrible play, though. I’ve heard about it many times…

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Cardinals will sweep Braves - Teams seem to get better (pitching & hitting - wise) once they face the Braves.

ANYONE ELSE THINKING BRAVES GONNA LOSE 100? I’ve done the math and if the Braves can continue their streak of futility - they can do it.

Course the losing is all because of injuries & has nothing to do with personel or managing decisions.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say. Raleigh Brave

What did I say that was positive? I’m missing something here.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for asking Cox if the team has lost focus.

I don’t think it’s as dumb a question as you think. I see a lot of reporters ask the same question when teams are struggling (and it’s often followed by the same enthusiastic remark that Cox gave you).

I applaud you for doing what many of the fans wanted you to do. Maybe it’s a wake up call for Bobby and the team. When the team loses focus, that’s often on the manager. When the question is asked, I think the manager takes it personally, as he should. Maybe that fires Bobby up to get the team playing with more desire.

I just don’t think it’s as pointless a question as you made it seem…though I’m standing from afar and it puts u in the hot seat.

When was the last time Bobby has shown emotion to anyone other than an umpire? Frankly, it’s about damn time.

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Isn’t it quite a funny little joke that some baseball snobs (I’m thinking of, oh, a George Will type of snob) bemoan the idea that their beloved game would allow umpires to use technology to enable them to review a call?

Restricting replay to home run issues is just the beginning. A play like the infamous one you mentioned is actually rare, but I fully expect plays on the basepaths and plays at the plate to be reviewed in the near future. It’s a natural step for baseball to take.

What would be very ironic is if there are several blown calls on the basepaths in the playoffs this year that can’t be reviewed. Those damned cameras will have no one to inform. Serves ‘em right, the buggers! The scourge of instant replay shall never sully the imperfection that makes baseball so wonderfully maddening!

By Herschel Talker

August 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

“By Raleigh Brave

August 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say.”

Raleigh Brave - what else would you expect from this blog? We all know that DOB is a blind homer. I think tonight’s game is “pivotal” in his mind. But I give him props for being an eternal optimist. Positive is way to go. Dave’s a good guy. Can’t say the same about that jerk Terence Moore.

By Efrim

August 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

How about a player like Wladimir Balentien? Might make it difficult that Seattle is terrible and going to lose Raul Ibanez to free agency, but maybe trying to acquire a slugger like that. Not sure we really need a veteran bat, just a power bat to play left. Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Renegator, no worries, my man. Just having a little fun.

Hey, did you folks see Buster’s blog today? Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them, by far.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Retiredscout: Even if “protection” exists (and there have been numerous studies that allege it does not), Chipper should be WALKING more with the likes of Kotchman and Infante behind him instead of Texiera, which, by default, maintain his high BA because the more walks a batter takes, the less “at bats” that are recorded and hence the higher batting average in the number of ABs (instead of Plate Appearances). So it shouldn’t necessarily hurt Chipper, so long as he can continue walking at an above average pace (and he can maintain a .360 average or thereabouts).

Additionally, this point may be mute if McCann is hitting behind Chipper (as he should be on most nights - at least when he’s playing- since he’s the team’s next best hitter). If you do believe in protection, and McCann is hitting behind Chipper, he shouldn’t be seeing that many more balls than he did when Tex was hitting behind him.

By flange1

August 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

DO you think we will ever hear the entire Jordan Schafer HGH suspension story?

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By ES

August 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Who cares anymore?

By StingerSplash

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

No wonder you don’t have time to do a box if you’re typing in “Ooo who” “Ooo who” and “woo who.”

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Maybe I’m deliberately misquoting you and taking your words out of context, but I believe you typed this in the blog up there, you Positive Polly!

“A sign of hope for…the…Braves. The Braves…finally put an end to…the Mets. I say that the…cool, over-the-top stuff was positive. I watched…it…with…glee.

This thing ain’t over yet, folks.”

(Man, you are delusional. Such damning words, DOB.)

By Braves Suck

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

When will you and the rest of the AJC columnist stop slobbering over the old Codger Bobby Cox. This guy may be respected by his team and the league, but his teams over the last dozen of years have floundered from mediocre to just plan bad. With all the talent the Braves have had, he can only show 1-WS title. He sucks and you guys should start telling the truth.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Chipper has been struggling a bit lately. “Funny” how our two best hitters picked the same time to lower their AVGs and such—which brings us to:

McFann’s Disturbing Stat of the Day!

Since making his return from getting “Shane Victorinoed”, McCann has hit .254 with 1 homer, 3 doubles, 7 RBI, 2 walks, and 8 strikeouts. His OBP since Aug. 4 is a disturbing .279, and his SLG is .356.

He’s drop 7 points off his season AVG (.302-.295), 14 points off his season OBP (.385-.371), and 31 points off his season SLG (.564-.533)—so naturally his OPS has dropped from .949-.904.

Could just be a “slump”, though…Nuthin to do with July 27, right? Huh, what are the odds?

}: (

By THB

August 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

This season is long gone, but that does not mean next year is. The only thing that is certain for next year is that it is, in fact, a new year. I mean, honestly. We don’t know what JoJo or Morton will bring to the table. We don’t know what Schafer, Hanson, Medlen, or any other players we get in trades will do. But I will say this. We need some new faces on the team.

Look what the Twins did. They traded Johan Santana and let Torii Hunter leave via Free Agency, and their record is 72-54, only .5 games out of the division and wildcard. Theyir record is .5 games under the Red Sox. They have 5 good young pitchers in Blackburn, Slowey, Baker, Perkins, and Liriano. All have ERA’s under 4.24 and none are older than 26. My point is that Baker and Liriano had a good bit of success, but Slowey, Blackburn, and Perkins are all stepping up. If JJ and one of Morton/JoJo do well and the other does okay, we’d have a decent rotation.

The twins offense is not scary in any way. Mauer is a good table setter (good OBP, AVG, not much power), and Morneau is the only power hitter with 19 HR.

I guess my point is, anything can happen.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

ES Who cares anymore?

I DO!!

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Can I get a link to that Buster Olney article? I’m looking on the ESPN but it’s so cluttered with stuff I can’t find it

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hey, did you folks see Buster’s blog today? Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them, by far. DOB

Francoeur’s 4-5 game was against Palmer, Hinshaw, and Sadler (Who? Exactly).

His only multi-HR game this year (7 of his 55 RBI, or 13%), came against Washington.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

THB

The Twins have speed and play small ball… 2 things we haven’t done in years

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Be careful out on that limb, DOB.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

CHANGE IN STRATEGY FOR 2009 AND BEYOND

Why should we even be rooting for the team to win games anymore? Sure, certain players have arb raises coming up and every major leaguer (at least I hope every MLB player on our team) has some sense of pride and doesn’t want to go down without a fight, BUT shouldn’t we all be rooting for us to lose every single game here on out for the remainder of 2008 so that we can inch closer to the #1 draft pick in the 2009 draft? I doubt we’ll overtake the Nationals, but man, that Stephen Strasburg kid (who struck out 23 batters in ONE game) looks like the real deal to me and THAT is the kind of pitcher we need to draft and build around.

BLOW UP the team for 2009. JC Bradbury is right and I know Cox will hate it and would never go for it, but Wren needs to do the smart thing here. WE ARE NOT 2 or 3 pieces away from contending- not without Hudson next season and with Morton, Reyes and James showing inconsistency (in James’ case, consistency in giving up HRs at an astronomical rate).

Here’s what I would do:

1) IF Halladay can be had from the Jays, I would trade them SS Yunel Escobar (they have Eckstein and McDonald playing SS - enough said), 2B Martin Prado (Aaron Hill is their 2B and has been injured and I believe is starting to get more expensive than he’s worth now), one of Reyes/James/Morton OR one of our prospects from the following pool (Flowers, Hicks, KK or Gorkys), and a fourth lesser piece (either a lower level prospect or a player that projects as a future utility guy in the majors. That’s alot to give up, and for Halladay, I’d be tempted to give up more IF (and this is a big if) we were granted a 72 hour negotiation window to negotiate an extension.

IF you can’t land Halladay, don’t go after Sheets. Go after CC Sabathia. Workhorse. Big bodied (unlikely to break down as easily as a Roy Oswalt, Tim Lincecum or Timmy Hudson). Ace numbers. Give him 5 years, 100m. If he wants 7 years, Santana dollars, offer him a final deal of 6/120m with a 7th year TEAM option with a reasonable buyout. If he doesn’t bite, move on.

2) Sign Pat Burrell to play LF. IF you can sign Milton Bradley (who has been the paragon of teammates in Arlington this year) for cheap given his reputation and the market (and if Burrell prices himself out because the Yanks are offering him 17m+ to replace Abreu), I’d sign MB. Shoot, if Frenchy continues to suck, I wouldn’t mind MB and Burrell manning the corners.

3) If Burrell/MB can’t be had, I would approach the Tigers about Magglio Ordonez given Illitch’s fury over the way the season has gone despite his payroll boost. If we can give up little and get them to throw 3m per our way (making him a 15m player per), Maggs would be a good bridge to Heyward and company in 2010/2011.

4) Re-evaluate 1B. Look, 1B is a premium power position. Kotchman ain’t a bad hitter (not this bad at least) per se, but he’s a below average 1B offensively. That’s not a joke- you can research the numbers yourself. He no longer takes walks (what the heck happened to his patience?) and has never been a bopper, so I’d re-evaluate if I were the Braves. See if a team needs a cheap 1B in the offseason and see if you can get 1 or 2 good prospects in return. I’d unload him and go with Kala Ka’iahue at 1B next season (assuming he’s not part of the package going to TOR for Halladay).

5) Lillibridge to play SS following Esco’s departure. The kid can play- he just needs Abs, repetitions and some confidence.

6) Schafer to CF. Same as above. Let Kotsay walk, please.

7) Do NOT (and I repeat DO NOT) re-sign Glavine, Hampton, et al. this winter. Its time to bid them adieu and say thanks for the memories (not in Hampton’s case, since there are no memories). Smoltz is a special case- I would let him walk, but I’m tempted to offer him an incentive laden deal to come back and pitch for 1M or so and if he can’t, its not a big sunk cost. Unlike Glavine, when Smoltz pitched this season, he still pitched well.

8) Get some cheap depth for the pen. Do not overspend on relief pitchers - they are the most fungible asset (albeit important) in the majors.

9) Invest heavily in the international and domestic drafts.

10) Groom Eric Campbell to be the heir apparent to Chipper at 3B. Get him ready at Miss. in 2009

11) Promote Tommy Hanson into the rotation. In ST, evaluate Redmond, Medlen, James and Reyes.

12) Ship Frenchy off somewhere in a classic GM “challenge” trade. Do your best to get equal value. Would Dayton trade the struggling Alex Gordon for Francoeur and another player?

2009 Lineup SS Lillibridge OR CF Jordan Schafer 2B Kelly Johnson (2 good OBPs at top) 3B Chipper Jones LF Pat Burrell (or Magglio Ordonez) C Brian McCann RF Milton Bradley* (or Jeff if he can’t be moved) 1B Kotchman OR Kala Ka’ihue (or other 1B acquired via trade) Lillibridge or Schafer (whichever is not leading off) Pitcher’s spot

Rotation:

Halladay / OR CC Sabathia Jurrjens Campillo Morton/Reyes Hanson

The back end of this rotation is somewhat weak (in experience) but has tremendous upside. I am NOT expecting to contend in 2009 (even with all of the changes above- I think it would be a competitive team, but I think 2010 would the year to really start making a prolonged run ala 1991).

After 2009, you have the following players coming up (hopefully):

1B Freddie Freeman - the future at 1B. Finally, a 1B that can walk, slug, and play defense in our system. And he’s only 18 years old (YOUNGER than Heyward and putting up better OPS numbers, but gets less attention.)

OF Jason Heyward- stud. Nothing else to say. He and Freeman are our future middle of the order hitters that will replace Chipper and co.

C Tyler Flowers (if he’s not traded) - he can play C and boy does this kid have an EYE. .430 On base % this year and maintaining it. Big body projects for big power too- especially from the C position. Not much older than Matt Wieter, the top C prospect in the game (but Wieter is doing even better than Flowers is (hard to imagine) at AA - just an absolute stud).

SS Brandon Hicks- good power, good eye, amazing defense (some say as good or better than Escobar). At AA already.

Cole Rohrborough - LHP with the potential to be a #2 or #3 in the bigs. Great stuff, very projectable.

Jeff Locke - could be an ace if he can harness his abilities. Great k/9 numbers, low walks (great control), tons of groundballs, low xbh rates, love the kid. Projectable, out of the Northeast so he’s going to take longer than the kids in the southeast to develop but once he does (and if he does), watch out.

Tommy Hanson - will be up before 2010, but I think of Millwood when I think of Hanson. Potential to be a middle of the rotation type of SP as early as 2009 with more upside than that. Has better #s than Jurrjens did at the same level.

Gorkys Hernandez - future leadoff CF for some team (if not us)

Erneso Meija - slugging 1B - needs more experience - may have a future as a big league regular. Big bodied.

Eric Campbell - future at 3B. Better than the others in our system (Adam Coe, Van Pope, etc.). ALWAYS could hit the ball a country mile, but started taking walks at a good clip this season too.

There are several other kids I’m neglecting to mention (Rodriguez, Travis Jones, etc.) - bottom line: we have DEPTH.

Then there’s a whole other slew of talent at the lower levels (ala Teheran, Delgado, David Frances, Casey Hodges, Duvall, Spruill, etc.)

The future is bright. DO NOT FORECLOSE IT but choosing the wrong path in 2009.

BE SMART, WREN. PLEASE - for the sake of the future of this organization.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Another thing…I’m afraid Chipper is going to let the batting title slip out of his hands. If he can’t hit at Shea where can he hit? I’d rather Chipper get a hot bat again but if not, maybe AP will go into a slump. I was afraid this would happen when Tex wasn’t hitting in front of him anymore.

By Chipper J

August 21, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

For those talking about trading Chipper: Are we really going to get equal value for him? Even if we aren’t going to win this year or next, don’t we still want the younger players to be able to go to him for help and emulate him? Just look at McCann. He’s constantly singing Chipper’s praises for helping him and I saw today on mlb.com where Teixeira was too. Don’t you think keeping him around will actually help in the long run, especially with younger players coming up now?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I don’t want to hang around to be Mr. Miyagi to this Karate Kid collection of players? Another shot at a ring wouldn’t kill me.

By gayle

August 21, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Nice bit about the ‘91 Series. But that wasn’t the worst play - the worst play was in Game 7 when Lonnie Smith was rounding third and was duped by the Twins third baseman thinking a thrown was coming. There was no throw, Lonnie stayed at third and the Braves lost the game and the Series 1-0.

Looking at replays, you can see Jimy Williams, the Braves third base coach, standing there in the right spot with his arms at his side! What the …..! He should have been waving Lonnie around third like a man possessed.

Amazing how you can look back at such tiny events and realize how much one of them could have changed things.

The Braves legacy - whatever that is worth - will be as a one-hit-wonder until they get that second Championship. ‘91 and ‘96 could have and should have gone Atlanta’s way.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them,

even if frenchy can kill just the bad pitchers, that would help. everybody look like the best pitcher in the league against us right now.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

shaun

You remember the 1996 world series? Braves up 2 games to none, about to go up 3-0 when leading 6-0 in game 3.

When asked where the game turned, a bitter Cox mentioned a leadoff foul pop fly in the sixth inning with Atlanta ahead 6-0. Rightfielder Jermaine Dye overran the ball, which fell behind him and rightfield umpire Tim Welke. “Dye couldn’t get around the umpire to catch the g******* ball,” Cox said, although Dye had told Welke while taking the field in the seventh, “It’s not your fault. I should have caught it

I remember that play as the turning point as well. You could feel the momentum switch after that play. Without the “RF Umpire*, Dye would’ve caught that ball. Instead, Jeter walked to lead off the inning which started a 3 run rally and set the stage for Leyritz 2 innings later to tie it.

The Braves should’ve won that WS too.

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. Sucks.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Just to add to my 4:09 post:

In the fifteen games before (and including) the game where he got “Victorinoed”, McCann hit .327 with a .476 OBP and a .694 SLG. He had 5 homers, 15 RBI, 3 doubles, 13 walks, and only 3 strikeouts in that span. The fifteen games since? Well, see my 4:09.

Hit, Heap, Hit!—

Ah, good—the name change! I hope it works…

By Original Jon

August 21, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Rob Seriously, you are living a pipe dream with all those scenarios buddy. Not gonna happen, not one bit. I see the Braves as going after someone like Lowe or Garland, but will steer clear of Sabathia and Sheets. And do you honestly think they would sign Milton Bradley? Seriously?

By TheCutMan

August 21, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

So, when will the chickens that HAVE come home to roost start clucking about CHANGE needed in many aspects of this team?

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

More from that 1996 World Series.

Remember, this was the year of that Maier debacle too.

Key survived the fifth when second base ump Terry Tata incorrectly called Grissom out trying to advance to second on a ball that dribbled a few feet away from Giradi. Braves manager Bobby Cox, at his boiling point, argued with Tata, and then, unprovoked, lit into third-base ump Tim Welke, for whom he was still mad at for getting in Jermaine Dye’s way in Game 3. Cox was ejected and returned to the clubhouse to watch the rest of the World Series.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

rob interesting post, man. long, but interesting.

your run down of the minor leaguers we have just a year or so away makes me think maybe we should just spend on a few free agents, and hope for the best.

for instance, if we didnt make any trades, and hung onto all of our guys, we could sign sheets, blake, ohman, and juan cruz. one hitter, one starter, two relievers. we could try it with a rotation of sheets, jurjens, morton, campillo, jojo, and hope that the offense comes back around in ‘09. if it doesnt work, we still have sheets for a few years so he can pitch for us in 2010 thru 2012 when the kids are coming up, and blake can stay around as a corner infield/outfield utility type.

By Senator Barrack Obama

August 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Braves,

Time calls for CHANGE, Change YOU can believe in.

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy-Yeah, the twins play small ball and have speed. They may play small ball, which by the way is completely overrated, but their speed (They don’t have much of it, actually) is negated by the fact that they don’t get on base that much either. I mean, Carlos Gomez leads the team with 25 SB and has a .286 (!!) OBP. That’s lower than Frenchy’s. And he’s been caught 10 times, which is 10 less times he could have been driven in. Delmon Young has 13 SB with a .330 OBP. Not horrible, not very good. Denard Span has 10 SB, but has been caught 4 times, not horrible.

Small ball is one of the most overrated terms in baseball. There’s a time and place for sacrifice bunts and hit and runs. You sacrifice bunt a guy to second or third when you need 1 run. You don’t sacrifice bunt with Yunel Escobar when he’s hitting .300. When you only need 1 run, sure, bunt him over. And pitchers, sure, bunt him over. Stolen bases are helpful, but not necessary. I would rather have a team that has a bunch of 10 SB guys becuase they caught the other team offguard instead of going every time. But I can see how stolen bases help when you have Jose Reyes running.

The Twins are winning because of their attitude and their pitching. Their offense compliments their pitching, but isn’t very good.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed”,

August 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Ha knew this stat was comming. Don’t worry this not another case of estrada…I’m going to beg and beg bobby cox to give him a high heater in his chin. The loser deserves it

By Jamie in Richmond

August 21, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Rob,

You were kidding right? Wow.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed”,

August 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

I was dreaming last night—all of us bloggers (except sniper) attended a phillies game in the same section and booed the living ^##@(&U*^ out of victorino

By BL

August 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB No need for Buster’s blog. You are a good numbers guy and have made a good effort to show JF’s bad ones ALL year. Glad it is clear now that the team is why we are sinking.

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Chipper J

Another run for a ring wouldn’t kill me either.

By Bobbymahlon

August 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

DAP—- Where did you read the Q & A article about Jordan Scheafer, I would like to read it ? Thanks in advance for your help. Bobbymahlon

By Brian

August 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Iv’e noticed if your positive here no one wants to talk to you. Stop whining people, this might be a good thing for them to go through this so we know who to keep and who they can trade to the Nats. I’m not convinced on Blanco,keep him as back-up next year, but look for Josh Anderson in CF. Pedro Martinez looks like he smells like arm pits!

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

I was dreaming last night—all of us bloggers (except sniper) attended a phillies game in the same section and booed the living ^##@(&U^ out of victorino*

That would be so much fun!

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Bobbymahlon-If you go to baseballamerica.com, jordan schafer is the main picture and his article is right under it.

By bfan54

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Brian - who cares if you’re “first?”. DOB doesn’t, I don’t, the Blog doesn’t, so why do you? Explain this inanity? I am a loss.

By Lew

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Rene-Dude, I’m not angry with you. You and I are always cool with each other-you should know that. I never called you And Idiot or anything like it and I never called your intelligence or desire for a winning Braves’ team into question, have I? Never would, either (though your Gator allegiance is inexplicabl -Go Dawgs!!!!). Your massive negativity this year-from the very beginning of the season-HAS been very surprising. Honestly, it’s YOU who have sounded angry, for quite some time.

I’m just mystified with you (and many others, too) who are so into this accountability thing. It’s just counterproductive in my opinion. You have what amounts to an entirely new regime in Atlanta, with the purchase of the team by Liberty Media and the installation of Frank Wren as GM. Yes, Terry McGuirk has been the defacto head of things for a while and The House Wren was second in command to Schuerholz, but it’s not like it’s the same situation for any of them as it was when they were under Time Warner’s miserly thumb. Though to be honest, after that fiasco of buying AOL, they might not have had much choice. Dumb management any way you care to view it, IMO-but NOT the fault of Schuerholz, McGuirk, Frank Wren OR Liberty Media.

I’ve gone back and forth on this same thing with Tennessee Paul as well, who is and has always been one of my best buddies on the blog, despite occasional disagreements-as are you. However, like I’ve told Ten Paul,-give the guys a chance to do something. Maybe if NOTHING gets done after the 08 season, or barely any $$$ is spent to fill holes, there will be a bona fide beef with this ownership group and Upper Management, as well as a realization they will not honor their word. Let’s see, now that some big bucks are coming off the books, just what they are going to do. They claim salary will go UP this year in addition to the bucks coming off of the books. Let’s see if this is so before we condemn them.

Let’s see if FW can pull off some more great deals like he did last winter before we decide to fire him after just one season at the helm.This is definitely the first time in ages that there will be available $$$$. Wren showed what he was capable of with the Jurrjens and Infante/Ohman deals. Let’s give Frank and the Braves’ Brass at least a chance to prove they have the Team’s best interests at heart. I promise that if there is not significant improvement to the point of serious contention by the time 2010 comes around, that I will be screaming just as loudly as you or anyone else.

Things went to hell in a handbasket very quickly this year and snowballed. It isn’t always easy to go out and replace major parts like Smoltz and Glavine were expected to be (we KNEW Hampton might not help at all)-much less having to deal with Hudson’s situation - in midstream. The development of young kids like JoJo and Morton and their growing pains (completely normal for young kids-Jurrjens is the exception) are frustrating to watch, but I think even the most negative can agree that they have show flashes of brilliance as well and that their futures look pretty bright, in all actuality.

I think even the trading of Tex to the Angels was made with the future in mind, though Kotchman has yet to show us anything, really. Maybe there are too many holes to fill them all this offseason, but we DO have some pretty impressive talent in the minors, like Schafer, Heyward, Hanson, Medlin and Campbelll (many others, too) that should fill some of the holes, even if not until 2010-so maybe it WILL take one more year of less than favorable results before we take off again. I just don’t think that wanting to fire or “hold accountable” any of those you think should pay for a lousy season will help us improve, in the least. That’s all.

By Chipper J

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

Another run for a ring wouldn’t kill me either.

Then I suggest you pack your bags too.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

N9—

Definitely not another case of Estrada, but it is sort of int’resting (if you like crummy stats).

I have found one other stretch of 15 games (June 22-July 8) where his numbers looked pretty bad.

Hey, everybody has slumps…

And I don’t know if I’d plant one in Shane’s chin…Maybe the ribs…Better yet, plunk Utley!

By Vince

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Break out the brooms. Mets sweep braves.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

bobbymahlon it was posted on the previous blog. here it is again

shafer is pretty clear that he did not use HGH, and that the suspension was because of something else. i believe him. maybe DOB can figure out what the rules are and what else he could have been suspended for under the HGH rule.

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Bobbymahlon-Oops, Schafer is no longer the main picture, but his article is right next to the picture.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal That would be so much fun!

Haha…Wouldn’t it, though?

But I wouldn’t wanna be in the same ballpark as the Fillies…

By Rob

August 21, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Original Jon:

Please explain WHY my proposals are a “pipe dream”, since you think you know more about the organization that I do (and I doubt that).

First of all, addressing your first contention, yes, I think the Braves would consider signing Milton Bradley if he were to come cheaper than his production would otherwise dictate for a “baggage-free” player in the open market. First of all, several Rangers have spoken up in MB’s defense, including Michael Young who recently stated that MB was “the best teammate I’ve ever had”. Second, didn’t we trade for Gary Sheffield when he was being criticized left and right in LA? He was supposedly a major pain for every single team and manager he has ever played for (and apparently continues to be a thorn in Leyland’s side in Detroit in his asking for more time in the OF as opposed to playing the DH) - but Bobby Cox tends to bring the best out in his players. MB would be no exception. Again, if you read my post you’d see that my first choice would be Burrell or Maggs, but if neither can be had (Burrell via FA and Maggs via trade), then MB is a solid bridge to Heyward, Gorkys, etc.

Second, the Braves have approx 40-45m coming off the books this year in Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, etc. That’s a whole lotta cash (although it pales in comparison to the 75m the Yankees have coming off the books- life is just unfair), and the Braves should NOT and I repeat SHOULD NOT be spending large sums of money on MEDIOCRE players like the following:

Casey Blake Jon Garland Ryan Dempster (2008 notwithstanding- please look at his CAREER numbers and you’ll quickly see what a fluke year looks like) etc

Please, spare me. Garland is making 12M THIS year- what makes you think he and his agent will want any less than that over 4-5+ years in the open market? And you know what? some chump GM somewhere will end up paying him that and live to regret it. Sure, the guy once won 18 games. But what you don’t see unless you delve into the stats is the following: a career 105+ (era adjusted for park) of 105 (100 is average) with an ERA+ of approx 100 this season. Garland is sporting a fungible 4.58 ERA with an opponents batting average against of .304 away from the pitcher friendly confines of the LAA stadium. Garland has the thoroughly unimpressive 4.79 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched ratio (over his career), and he has (at last check) struck out a measley 68 guys over 150+ innings pitched this season. He has also allowed 173 hits in just 152 innings -meaning he has to rely on the defense behind him ALOT more than a Smoltz, Sabathia, Sheets, etc type of pitcher. All that for 12m+ (more than likely over 14m over 5 years)? HECK NO.

Garland is NOT a difference maker. Blake is hardly league average for his position- again NOT a difference maker. Dempster is having a career year - again, likely NOT a difference maker (especially over the long term).

If you’re going to be spending over 12m per on a single player, pony up the remaing 5m or so and get a REAL difference maker along the lines of Sabathia, Burrell, etc. OTHERWISE SIT ON THE CASH UNTIL THE FOLLOWING SEASON - do not get saddled with bad, longterm contracts just because you couldn’t land the premium FAs.

We do have a ton of young, impressive talent coming up the pipeline, and we should maximize it instead of trading it all away for one or two pieces as we have on the past (for rental players ala Tex, no less). Lets be the ones who pillage other farm systems and make a run from 2011-2015 when we will be really competitive.

Of course, you are probably right that its unrealistic to expect Cox not to convince Wren (if Wren doesn’t want to do it himself that is) to re-sign Glavine and Smoltz for nostaliga reasons.. which is utterly NOT in the team’s best interests given the state of our team now and in 2009. LET THE KIDS PLAY AND DEVELOP AND SIGN/TRADE FOR REAL DIFFERENCE MAKERS that you will have when the kids are all up and playing by 2010.

That should be the strategy. Will it be? We’ll see.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

McCann was Flyin’ Hawaiianed sounds better than Victorinoed.

Anyone see that American boy get all kamikaze on that Chinese catcher the other day? I think he was exacting revenge for Nastia getting robbed by that lil’ 8 year old Chinese gymnast the other night. In baseball, a tie goes to the runner but in gymnastics it seems a tie goes to the Chinese….. at least when the Olympics are in Beijing.

By clutch

August 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

*There’s a time and place for sacrifice bunts and hit and runs. * THB

Ya, that time is the post season and All-Star games when teams are trying to win 1 “meaningless” game.

If it were so meaningless to play small ball, teams wouldn’t do it in the post season.

Also, the Twins are winning because they can hit with RISP. They lead the league and have 4 of the best players in baseball avg wise with RISP. That’s clutch. They have great team chemistry and a great manager.

It makes sense for teams that can hit with pressure to bunt runners over. If this team bunted runners over, who would drive them in, Frenchy? Ha. I hope that’s your reasoning for downgrading “small ball”. The Angels have won with it all year, and in year’s past as they’ve lacked power. I’d almost be certain this team can win with nobody’s like Anderson, Prado, blanco by playing small ball and having guys like Chipper and McCann bring them home. Well, certain they will win more than they are now.

By Brian

August 21, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Brian never said he was first!

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Rob- that was the most BRILLIANT post I have read on this blog, period. Amen to all of it. This team is not one or two pieces away as you said. I am confident in Wren and think he can pull it off, but I am with your approach 150%. We have the money- spend it wisely - groom the kids. What’s not to like folks? He’s smart.

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Rob- That was the most intelligent post I have ever read on this blog, and that includes DOB’s suggestions. Brilliant chap. I have confidence that Wren will follow that sound strategy- sign difference makers (but not expensive mediocre veterans), groom the kids on the farm, and reload for a 5+ year run starting in 2010. Makes sense to me. Very, very, very good post.

By bfan54

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

This team is not playing with any pride, i.e., “playing the best baseball” they are capable of”. I love this team, admittedly saw the early writing on the wall (‘writ large’)I might add, and, with the season shot, I am looking for individual successes to keep the fires burning. One of the things I am not rooting for has nothing to do with the player, Chipper Jones, whom I think is a great player, great Brave, etc. But he doesn’t deserve the batting title vis a vis Albert Pujols. Albert has best him in games played (115/100) in AB’s (411/356), in hits (143/129), in doubles (31/16), in HR’s(26/19),and RBI 79/62.

I looked into these stats only after a blogger yesterday talked about what a “weak” year CJ was having. So I looked at the numbers and a had to agree. This is a “good, ‘though declining< year” for a great player.

I hate that I can’t find more positives, given my moniker, and maybe this is because I am too connected to the team. As with many of us, the nostalgia of having Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, and I admit that afer Mad Dog pitched a 7 inning, 2 hit, 79 pitch shutout - hell, yes, I wanted him, back. Don’t forget, Javy. He was an early mistake, and I screamed.

Wrong - I was on Glavine 1; I was wrong on Smoltz; Maddux has little gas left, glad they didn’t listen to me. Jury’s out on Hampton, truly! But what have we got to inspire? I can’t say. I want to Jurgens, I like Kotsay…but…bad back, big K, 32 yoa.

Chipper is an anchor, but…his day’s are behind him.

I am going to listen to David Bowies’ “We could be hero’s!.

Oh, gimme shelter!

By Big Winner!

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

rob,

Da, da, da ,daaaaa! Why that is the most ridiculous post of the day. Congratulations!

What does he win?

Rob wins the Homer of the Day award, as well as this old tuna sammich.

Good luck with your blog Rob! and just remember to keep your blogs, on your own blog.

Enjoy the tuna

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

n

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

bfan54—

Aww…C’mon! You’re just jealous ‘cause you weren’t first.

Braveheart McCann was Flyin’ Hawaiianed sounds better than Victorinoed.

Please…I try to refrain from the phrase “Flyin’ Hawaiian”.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

THB

I was simply saying our style of baseball is alot different then the Twins… Not sure how you can argue that

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

McFann, I’m not very good at booing…it’s a shame I tell ya! I wouldn’t say my voice is high-pitched, but I am a girl so a low sounding word doesn’t get very much trajectory. But I’m not above throwing rotten fruits and veggies his way while everyone else boos…ok, maybe I am…but it’s the experience that counts.

Chipper J I happen to love the city of Atlanta and the Braves.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Big winner:

Thanks for your ingenious response. Glad you took the time to read both of my posts before you said I was a “homer”. For what? Reciting facts?

I hope you understand that I have seen every one of the team’s minor league teams this season. I have watched Schafer, I have watched Flowers, I have watched Hicks, I have watched Locke, I have watched Hanson, etc. I have spoken at length with our scouts about these kids. I have read numerous reports on them. I know what’s down on the farm and it’s bright.

So please understand that I do not want to block that young talent that CAN make a difference (see the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for an immediate example) by re-signing the likes of Glavine and Hampton - who are utterly mediocre at this point. If you want to sign them, sign them as coaches or roving pitching instructors or something. NOT as players. Smoltz is the one exception here.

We have approx 45 mil to play with this offseason. If Liberty ups payroll as it has said it would do in the past, we could have more (but doubtful). How is my proposal so unbelievable? Sabathia - 20m. Burrell - 13m. The remaining 10m or so goes towards arb raises and roster fill in.

I’d rather us sit on our cash that see us saddled with bad contracts with the likes of Blake and Garland. Yeah, color me a homer.

Idiot.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

DAP

Thanks for that Schafer link for those of us who missed it.

Sounds like the kid didn’t use the stuff, but maybe was carrying it for a teammate or friend?

I can only speculate.

Anyways, I think Francoeur can learn a lot by listening to Jordan…if anything, buy one of those Batting Pro batting cages? Hey, Jeff can even sponsor it and make sponsorship dollars if he turns it around next year (rolling eyes).

By Caleb

August 21, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Making me miss NY, DOB. I used to live on 44th Street, between 6th and 7th (yeah, right in Times Square). Those were good times.

By Couch Tater

August 21, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Musicradar reported that Rolling Stones music awakened British citizen Sam Carter from a coma. Bobby may consider his clubhouse music policy revised to include only the Stones.(Start Me Up? Sad Sad Sad?)

By gayle

August 21, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Rob - I agree with your post saying that it would be wise to exercise patience in spending all that loot coming off the books. But I have two issues.

first - as anyone who works in a large company with a badget can tell you, if you don’t spend your budget, there is a very good chance it won’t be there the following year when you might want to. It may not be the most logical thing, but the Braves might be forced to spend that money this winter.

second - I disagree with your contention that BC knows how to handle “problem” players like Sheffield. Well, first of all, Sheffield left. If he liked it here so much, why didn’t he stay.

Also, you forgot to mention “problem” players who were ridden out of town on a rail - namely James Lofton, Bret Boone and Quilvio Veras.

The bottom line is that if BC doesn’t want you in his dugout, stats be damned, you’re gone.

The year after Boone left Atlanta, he hit .331, 37 home runs and 141 rbis.

I call that an exceptional judge of talent by BC.

By Supes

August 21, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Thankfully the season will be over in about 5 weeks.

That sums up my views on the 2008 Braves.

The only things worth following is Chipper Jones batting title race, JJJ starts, if he’ll get to 15 wins?, and how will the September call ups perform when given a chance.

We know how reluctant and set in his ways Bobby Cox is.

It would be refreshing to see an OF with Brandon J. Jordan S. and Josh A. from left to right.

Middle infield of Lillbridge and Prado.

Jeff Francine’s numbers in 2008 leave little to be optimistic about. Not surprising he’s failed so miserably against quality pitching.

Maybe, just maybe they can put a frown on Pedro’s face tonight. Beat him for old time sakes…but then again, these are the gutless 2008 Braves playing out the rest of the meaningless (now) season. Oh well…The Olympics are on!

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed” ><-(

August 21, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

shane when hit in the head with a fastball ><-( Once that happens mcturtle can fully release himself

By Bobbymahlon

August 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

DAP— Thanks again for the article on Jordan Schafer. I enjoyed reading it, your comments about such an article was the first I heard about it.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal—

I’m not so good at booing, either. And every time I do it, something goes against me (like booing Grove, and then he gets hits while McCann goes 0-4).

And I bet if I threw some rotten fruit at him, it wouldn’t go in the direction I wanted it to…(and we don’t wanna reduce ourselves to throwing things like Cubs and Fillies fans!)

N9—

No, no! We don’t want to hit him in the head.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Glavine’s surgery today went “very well” according to Bobby Cox. Waiting for Braves to make official announcement and all that, but Cox said his understand is that Glavine would be ready for spring training (no, didn’t say he’d be with Braves or anything like that; as Glavine said yesterday, he won’t decide until after season whether he even wants to pitch again, then he’ll have to see if Braves want him)….

Norton hurt his left thumb and wrist on that play in the first inning last night, but stayed in game. It’s sore today and Cox had Prado take some balls at 1B during batting practice. Could be a scratch in lineup, but Norton’s in it for now….

No surprise here: Soriano’s elbow still hurts when he throws with an intensity. He starting throwing the past few days, and had soreness when he ramped up the effort. To me, that sounds like it’s headed for nerve-transposition surgery, but don’t know that yet.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

same old exciting lineup tonite:

escobar, kotsay, chipper, mccann, infante, johnson, francoeur, hampton.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

DAP, it was HGH on Schafer. Whether he says he used it or not, they obviously felt they had enough evidence to suspend him for it….

Speaking of HGH, former Brave pitcher Jorge Sosa, now in minors and obviously desperate to get back, was suspended today for 50 games. Performance enhancing drugs.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Supes Thankfully the season will be over in about 5 weeks.

That’s not exactly “Mention It at the Thanksgiving Day Table” material…

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I know you meant Soriano instead of Norton in that last paragraph. Kind of hard to keep ‘em straight when you’re doing injury updates every day (or every other day).

Anyway, I’m not a doctor, but it sounds more like Soriano needs total arm replacement surgery to me.

He’ll be on the Infinity-day DL.

By Steve from OH

August 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

THB, great post at 5:01

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed” ><-(

August 21, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Thx DOB

looks like another day another injury about different player. Anyway we can see flowers up due to this latest injury?

By Michael

August 21, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

HEY DAVE…Let me know how you like the new Glen Campbell CD. I’m a big fan of his and with the orchestra mixed in…sound like something I may have to pick up. I’ll go on your judgement.

By Steve from OH

August 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Would anyone with a Baseball America subscription please mention anyone from the Braves’ system that was mentioned in the “best tools” survey? Not asking for the whole article or anything just if anyone was mentioned.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed” ><-(

August 21, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks to the Braves, Dr. Andrews has his retirement funds all secured. The man can rest in peace somewhere in hawaii. Currently his third office is underconstruction somewhere in Cobb county!

I’ve never seen so many folks just ready to end baseball season, and we all love the sport! I think our magic number is getting pretty low.uuuff

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, yes, meant Soriano in that last paragraph.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it’s as dumb a question as you think.Bobby’s Cox

If I thought it was a dumb question, I wouldn’t have asked. To me, it looked like they had, and it’s looked like that a few times lately. More than a few times, actually.

The NY Post actually used the quote, though took out the f-bomb. They had him yelling, “That’s idiotical” to the question. (he might have said that, not sure if it was idiotic or idiotical)

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Norton scratched, Prado at 1B, batting eighth. Only other time he played 1B was that game in Washington when he came in late and missed a catch that cost Braves the game.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Get this: They also cleaned out the labrum in Glavine’s shoulder while they had him under. Told doctor before surgery that the shoulder had given him trouble, too, so they did a minor cleanup on that as well. So he had both elbow and shoulder operated on.

Still waiting for official word from Braves.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Escobar’s third career leadoff homer, second this season.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed” ><-(

August 21, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Yunel!!!

By JEB

August 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

DOB Just interested, you ever hear of a guitar player by the name of Doyle Dykes (to me he is the BEST finger style guitar player there is - Chet Atkins has stated that also!)

Anyway, had the awesome opportunity last week, to do some contract work for him and when we were finished he sat and gave us a personal 1 & 1/2 hr. concert in the living room! How cool is that!! A tremendously gracious and neat guy. Loaded me down with CD’s and DVD’s when finished.

If you haven’t heard him, check him out on Youtube - punch in his name - you will be loaded down with video and sound. My favorite is “While my guitar gently weeps” Awesome player. Also, check out his duets with Tommy Emanuel, good stuff!!

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I forgot to give you props for asking Bobby that question. You gave him the opportunity to light into some of these guys. He passed it up. Too bad, really. I’d like to see Bobby direct some not-so-friendly fire toward his team.

By mr baseball

August 21, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Given the 8 players in tonight’s original starting lineup. would any other manager in baseball fill out the same batting order as Cox.

Not a chance.

Norton, who has a bad thumb and might be a scratch, was batting 5th. Ahead of Infante. Ahead of KJ. Which would leave Francouer to hit 8th, probably ensuring that he will not get anything reasonable to swing at (not that he needs that).

As it turns out, Norton was scratched. Prado, who is having a much better season offensively, is inserted in the 8 hole. Go figure.

This season is not Cox’s fault. But when you have a manager who night after night sends out a lineup that clearly has guys hitting in spots they should not be placed, that’s not exactly conducive to winning.

What does it say about a veteran manager who had the weakest hitter in his lineup (2nd weakest for you Frenchy haters out there) batting 5th?

Whatever Cox’s positive attributes as a manager, when it comes to game day decision making, he has been a drag on his team for years. The Braves of the mid-to-late ’90s and early ’00s could overcome his strategic shortcomings. The last few haven’t been able to.

And for those of you who are under the delusion that Cox “brings out the best” in his players, here’s three names, one of which has already been mentioned.

Bret Boone. Ryan Klesko. Reggie Sanders.

Anybody want to counter with 3 position players who clearly benefitted from playing for Cox as much as those guys did by getting out of a Braves’ uniform.

And I didn’t even mention the youngsters Cox never gave a serious opportunity to play who have blossomed elsewhere.

The Braves need to do a lot of things to return to contention in the near future. One of them is to turn the managerial duties over to someone else, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen until our cheerleader-in-chief decides himself it’s time to go.

By bravos2249

August 21, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

who is he person that told Chip Mac has thrown out 17/94…when it’s 21/98

By braves70

August 21, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Good work DOB. It’s about time that Bobby Cox has to field some tough questions. He has always acted like the dictator of some banana republic who cannot be questioned. If we win tonight, DOB should get the game ball for waking up the old coot Cox who probably then unloaded on the team. Job well done!

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

Thanks again for asking the question.

Prado at 1st? As much as I want to see the kid play, I’ll even admit, this could get scary.

By JEB

August 21, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

DOB Just interested, you ever hear of a guitar player by the name of Doyle Dykes (to me he is the BEST finger style guitar player there is - Chet Atkins has stated that also!)

Anyway, had the awesome opportunity last week, to do some contract work for him and when we were finished he sat and gave us a personal 1 & 1/2 hr. concert in the living room! How cool is that!! A tremendously gracious and neat guy. Loaded me down with CD’s and DVD’s when finished.

If you haven’t heard him, check him out on Youtube - punch in his name - you will be loaded down with video and sound. My favorite is “While my guitar gently weeps” Awesome player. Also, check out his duets with Tommy Emanuel, good stuff!!

By Steve from OH

August 21, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

What “tough question” are we talking about? Am I missing something?

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

bravos2249—

4 of those 21 are pick-offs by the pitchers.

Hey! Bill O’Reilly’s at the game!!

By Interested Observer

August 21, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

It’s obvious that the Braves have lost focus, motivation, etc. Although some of the things Bobby says are laughable, I understand that he needs to back his players in the media. What worries me though is I actually think he believes what he says.

By THB

August 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Clutch-You must listen to Joe Morgan too much. Yes, smallball can be very effective. But simply having a bunch of players who get on base and hit for power is a much better plan. Hitting with RISP is a stat that has much more to do with mentality than having some sort of ability to consistently do better with a runner on second. I might sound like Shaun, but he’s right when he says a “clutch” player doesn’t exactly exist-over time. The twins are flying high and everybody’s contributing-in other words, they’re having fun. They have a winning mentality and that’s why they’re doing so well. Along with great pitching.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Prado at 1st? As much as I want to see the kid play, I’ll even admit, this could get scary.

Yeah, man. Where are Cecil and Ppaddy?

: >

By Flanders

August 21, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Interested Observer

something “laughable” like:

-Tom Glavine was pitching LIGHTS OUT before his injury??…i would say that the man is senile..and needs to retire..that indicates me, as a fan…That Cox TIME HAS COME and HIS FIGHTING TO STAY ..nuff said…

By JEB

August 21, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Mr Baseball

BUT… his name hass been readily batted around for steroid use - alot!

He really was just avg. (though better than with the Braves) after he left Atl.

By Frenchy Unplugged

August 21, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Frenchy has the worst numbers of any qualifier against good pitching? Geez that’s a surprise! (rolling eyes) That was his MO over the last couple of years even when he was driving in 100.

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

The Muts lineup don’t look so tough these days..last guys especially..declining delgado,tatis,easley,castro..throw in evans..these guys don’t strike fear! They still have their power nucleus. the Phillies scare me more.

By Efrim

August 21, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Wow. Kelly showed some very poor range on that Delgado RBI single. Very poor. Lot of ground balls base hits.

And Kelly bobbles that ball, eeesh, he got it to first…..

By Awesome!

August 21, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Wren say that the infield looked promising for next year?

Well those only spots that were, supposedly, to be set for next year, the infield spots, has no range.

Those last 2 balls to KJ and Chipper are fielded by most infielders.

By katz

August 21, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Hey! Bill O’Reilly’s at the game!!

Gotta love it when in a stadium filled with moronic aholes, the biggest moronic ahole of them all decides to disgrace us with his presence.

Hopefully, there won’t be any female vendors or ushers around where O’Reilly is sitting. Would hate to see him end up settling another sexual harassment claim out of court.

By braves70

August 21, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Have to agree that the ground balls to Kelly and Chipper should have been fielded by players on a contending team.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

MAY I HAVE YOU ATTENTION PLEASE!!

McCann got a hit! McCann got a hit! (But if he pops out with RSIP, that’ll kinda ruin it.)

I can’t wait for his next double!

By Plus Range

August 21, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

At SS(Escobar) and 1B(Kotchman)

No comment on the other two spots in the infield.

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

I am so tierd of first pitch out by #7

or first strike which ever comes first. What a joker

By BT

August 21, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

I am confused by those that are using the term “range” and the name Kelly Johnson in the same sentence.

By Awesome!

August 21, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

nice play by wright on another frenchy dribbler.

barehanded that chipper sytle.

by the way, frenchy forgot to step on first.

By Flustered Fan

August 21, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

I haven’t blogged in a while, hell, the last time I did the Braves were only 5 or so games under .500. But, I see it’s the same ole story, Stenchy still sucks, Cox is STILL the manager. Wren is a buffoon for wanting to retain Cox and saying “he can manage here as long as he wants to.” The Mets fired Randolph and look how good they are now. What is so special about Cox? Does Wren have some kind of donkey fettish or something? Does him and Cox have some kind of “thing” going? Eeeewwww….but anyways, the Braves will continue to suck as long as the organization gives the manager too much reign. Mark my words…you will see.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if anyone followed up on that Olney thing, if anyone put the numbers up. But here they are:

Buster had Elias whiz research it to find which hitters have the best and worst production against major league starting pitchers with ERAs at 3.75 or lower as of games played Aug. 19, and relievers with ERAs of 2.75 or lower, with a minimum 85 at-bats. And it was actually for both leagues, not just NL as I said earlier.

Anyway, Francoeur was last at .114 (13-for-114) with two doubles, one homer, six RBI, six walks, 28 K.

Next-lowest avg. was Chris Young at .126 (12-for-95), then Mark Reynolds at .141 (12-for-85).

Best averages belonged to Ryan Braun (.371), Matt Holliday (.360), Adam Kinsler (.355) and Joe Mauer (.355).

Most homers off those pitchers belonged to Adam Dunn (11 homers, .221 average with 30 walks, 30 K in 104 at-bats, far more impressive than I would’ve thought, I gotta admit), and Vlad Guerrero (10 homers, with a .272 average in 114 at-bats.

Really good idea by Buster to pursue that, and Elias to use its megacomputers or whatever they have to find it.

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Mets announcer:

“Kelly Johnson’s range in this series has really been inadequate.”

Look, I like KJ but he sucks as a second baseman. So, perhaps that means Glenn Hubbard needs to get fired? Alright, that was a joke, because most of us must know Hubbard could play some second base, eh!

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Does him and Cox have some kind of “thing” going? EeeewwwwFlustered Fan

Thanks for that peek into your mind.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

In all seriousness, though, folks, I’ll say this: I just don’t get the impression that it’s as much of sure thing that Cox returns next year as some of you think.

I know he signed the extension, but a whole lot has transpired since then. We’ll see.

No, I’ve not heard anything from him or any Braves official to indicate that things might have changed or even that anything different has been considered, but I just get that feeling that him coming back is not as much a certainty as it seemed months ago.

By Jake

August 21, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Hearing the announcers talk about our lack of power it will be interesting to see how we approach the offseason. I’m not sure who is available in the Free Agency market or whether we will go the trade rout. This teams needs are obvious. We need power and top of the rotation starters. I also think the team roster should be shaken up a little bit. From the sounds of things the team has good chemistry in the locker room but that hasn’t translated to good results in the field. I think its fair to say that Chipper and McCann are pretty much untouchable. Frenchy, Escobar, and Kotchman may be the only ones close to that level, but I don’t think anyone else is really on that level in terms of being a lock for next season. It will be interesting to see what happens.

By Ian Kinsler

August 21, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

My name is Ian…..

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Mac Daddy comes through with a biiig double. Been a while.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

TIE GAME!!! TIE GAME!!

There’s the double!!!

.299 with RSIP!!

Whoo-hoo!

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

McCann comes through with a 2 run double!

By Mr. Optimistic

August 21, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

wow its amazin make the pitcher work and we score some runs!!!!!!

By Fred

August 21, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

They mentioned on the broadcast that Carlos Zambrano now has 3 home runs after the all-star break (4 on the year). For any stat gurus out there - does Zambrano have more post all-star homers than Braves outfielders combined? Unfortunately, that seems entirely possible.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Beltran plays too deep out there in center.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Mets have Braves right where they want ‘em: It’s a one-run road game.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

You’re on fire today.

I was trying to read Buster’s blog, but don’t have access to Insider. Thanks for the numbers.

Also, that Cox intuition you have….thanks for that as well. I look forward to your thoughts being insider to the organization an all.

By ABravesFan

August 21, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, is Infante signed through next year if so do you see Wren having him more as a super utility guy or is there a potential he is looked to man a position next year?

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Man I’ve missed Hampton.

He’s dealing now. Over 90 pitches through 6 and getting stronger.

Think Bobby will let him go 7 and hit in the top half? Probably not.

I have a good feeling about tonight if Hampton can go 1 more.

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

McFann

Very happy to see that double. Chipper has slumped and we sure need BMac to step it up.

Did you ever see the Hawaiian Punch adds where the little Hawaiin guy walks up to people and knocks em out? I think that’s what happened to McCann - too much Hawaiian Punch.

By uga-brave

August 21, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

MR. BASEBALL,

i will give you three players that came to atlanta and exceeded there averages.

sheffield’s second year here was as good or better then any of his previous seasons.

j.d. drew’s one season here was very good.

and we had a dawg and a cat do a pretty good job at first base.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

ABravesFan, Infante’s arb-eligible, so yes, he’s under braves control for next season. Then eligible to become a free agent after that.

Bennett … hang on. Turbulence ahead.

By Kev

August 21, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Typical Bobby Cox game:

BENNETT COMES IN>>>>BOOOM OUTTA HERE!!! BALL GAME!..

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

So Hampton hits, but Cox brings in Bennet?

What a joke.

Evans doubles….where’s the beer?

By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers

August 21, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

McFann >Ô<: “Hey! Bill O’Reilly’s at the game!!”

That’s what we thought — a couple rows up behind home plate, slightly on the 3rd base side, right? In a light blue or turquoise (no, McFann — not “tortoise”) shirt?

I can hear the peanut vendors from here: “LOOFAHS!!! GETCHER LOOFAHS HERE!!!”

Hahahahaha!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

(Ie, “LOL”.)

By Mr. Optimistic

August 21, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB or anyone on here.got a question for ya. If Soriano has the nerve transplant surgery whats the timetable is that a year to come back or what???

By Steve from OH

August 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

There is no team in the history of baseball that needed a good old-fashioned fight more than the Braves. Can we bring the Cubs back to town?

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Ohman stayed on mound too long to begin with, but then he was there just in time if throw had been perfect. Then again, it’s Prado’s first start at first base. Made a nice play to get to the ball, but very costly throw.

By uga-brave

August 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

DOB,

the braves should apply to the patent courts.

they definitely have invented more ways to lose games then anyone else.

six inning starters dont get it.

By Jake

August 21, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

In the words of Ricky Ricardo “Ay yi yi yi yi yi yi”

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Well, Cox brings in Bennett who gives up a double and walk.. I guess you already know how this one turns out.

Ha, the Mets announcers were on the air a little longer than they thought.

Paraphrase “That was a terrible play, this isn’t AA, this isn’t the Dominican summer league.”

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Ya gotta love Infante rubbing that catch in the fans face!

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Keylargo—

Hawaiian Punch…Yeah, yer not kidding!

Dangit! McTurtle was on his way out, but unfortunately, he’s had to tuck back in…

NICE CATCH by Omar, there!

But hey, it’s a good thing the Braves had 3BMac’s blazing speed on the bases in the sixth—otherwise they’d be down 4-3!

; )

(Yes, blue shirt for Bill.)

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Let’s see if the veteran Kotsay can get a bunt down for Chipper or BMac to drive Escobar in.

By uga-brave

August 21, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

nice job kotsay.

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

POOR

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

another failed bunt….DP.

this has all the makings of 0-27.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe that this Braves team cannot bunt. They need to take bunting practice before each game until they learn how to do it. This is absolutely unacceptable.

Bobby Cox should be embarrassed.

By Jake

August 21, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

If you are going to bunt in Kotsay’s spot why not use Gregor, the best bunter on the team to pinch hit. I don’t know, maybe it’s the short bench thing.

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

All I want for christmas is a one run win on road..please…today!

By N8

August 21, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

“…but I just get that feeling that him coming back is not as much a certainty as it seemed months ago.”

That “primal scream” you all just heard was the worlds loudest male orga….uh….this is a family blog right?…let’s just say that Robert just had a very pleasurable moment.

By iowabrave

August 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

While you’re playing the what if & what coulda been in ‘91 & ‘96, who ‘bout these…

1992…After beating Jack Morris in Game 1 with Damon Berryhill’s homer(yea, Damon freaking Berryhill), we had a 4-3 in the 9th of Game 2. Ed Sprague hit a 2 run jack of Jeff Reardon. We hold that game and go back to Toronto up 2-0 with all the momentum……

1996…The Marlins lost Alex Fernandez for the rest of the series in Game 2, rotator cuff maybe, won game 3, but the Denny Neagle was Avery-like in Game 4. Without 1 on their top starters, the Braves looked awfully good for Game 5. Kenny Loften leads off with a triple, Keith Lockart walks, and then Eric Gregg decides to widen the stike zone to the size of Chewbacca’s pants(remember that last pitch to McGriff?). Anyway, we score there and put the boot to them, go back home up 3-2 with them having to go with Al Leiter on 3 days rest for a Game 7…

I know, they are more of a stretch than 91 & 96, but I’m pretty sure that it would have gone the way posted above. But what the heck, chicks dig my receding hair line. Don’t they?

By BossLady

August 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Mac Daddy? I haven’t heard that in years.

I also care what happens to the Braves.

Travel weary, see you bloggers later.

By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers

August 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

There is NO WAY Bobby Cox should have had Kotsay bunting in that situation. NO WAY!!!

You’ve got a better chance of scoring a run with a man on 1st and no outs, than you do with a man on 2nd with one out. (At least, that is what decades of MLB history have shown.)

And on top of that (generalized, generic statistics of the last TEN decades!) — Kotsay’s our number two hitter tonight for a reason — for the month of Aug, he’s .327/.393/.564!!!

Why in Dog’s doog name would you have him bunt?!?!?

Bobby Cox must go. He simply must go.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Did that ball really go right through Chippers glove?

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Kotsay you cost us a BIG run..this is why we dont win close games..very very sad

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Evenin’ all. Just got done w/ drills, settling down to gamecast to “watch” the game.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

The Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson reports the Florida Marlins are likely to trade players in the offseason to ensure their payroll doesn’t increase too much. 2B Dan Uggla, 1B Mike Jacobs, CL Kevin Gregg and SP Scott Olsen are candidates.

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

“…but I just get that feeling that him coming back is not as much a certainty as it seemed months ago”

The single most interesting statement of the month.or.maybe all all year! wow what a gut feeling statement. What have you seen or observed to get this idea?

By iowabrave

August 21, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Sorry, meant 1997 on the Marlins series. Got all fired up about Eric Gregg again. I hate to pick on the late “Plump Ump”, but dude, that was sick. Not cool, sick; but small intenstines hanging out of your belly sick.

By Mitchell

August 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Why is it that when I picture you I think of Jeff Schultz? Why don’t we ever get to see ol’ DOB? Where does Jeff Schultz end and DOB begin? Who is DOB really?

A damn fine writer that’s who. And a man of wealth and taste. Well, maybe taste, at the very least. Not sure about the wealth. I mean it is the AJC after all. But we all love the blog, don’t we everybody?

Right!

Tavares needs to come out NOW! Don’t leave him in there. How he hasn’t already given up ten runs in the 8th is a wonder. Come on man, just get Reyes.

This is about to fall apart any minute. There is little doubt in my mind. This is all over, let’s just get it over with… 2-2… Holy Lord.

All luck right there. Does anybody give Kelly a chance to hit the kind of homerun he’s known to hit at Shea? Doesn’t anybody remember that game last year in April when Edgar got a 3 run homer in the 6th to tie the game and then Kelly got one in the 7th to get a come from behind win.

He got one earlier this year, the game that Jurrjens pitched and almost blew.

This is just stupid. How bout some f#@%^#$%& runs?

Would it be fair to call DOB a blog artist? I like the sound of that, don’t you?

I’m pretty sure I could have fielded that ball by Nancy. That’s pathetic. Give me a freaking break.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

How bout we walk Delgado no matter the scenario

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

3-4 with two RBI so far…Nice, but won’t be as fun if they wind up losing anyway.

BTW—That double? Oh yeah; I called it.

; >

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

southbeachdietfreak

Are you stationed at Mayport?

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

bullsh!t call on blanco…..safe by a mile…the replay showed the ball still in the air when blanco touched first.

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Blanco was without a doubt safe!

By Mr. Optimistic

August 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

which mut is gunna hit the walk off wright or delgado????????? 0-27 watch out for a broom!!!!!!!!

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Yes, the ball went right through Chippers webbing. The Mets announcers seem to think his strings weren’t tight enough.

Anyway, Blanco was definitely safe on that play.

By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers

August 21, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

keylargo: “Let’s see if the veteran Kotsay can get a bunt down for Chipper or BMac to drive Escobar in.”

Or, hey — here’s an idea— let’s let him hit like he’s been doing all frigging month!!!

Is that an acceptable alternative to you, keylargo?!?!?

.327/.393/.564 — .957 OPS

Why in the h3ll bunt in that situation — 1 on, 0 out, Kotsay/Jones/McCann coming up?!?!?

By N8

August 21, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

You know what I “miss” about the Mets/Braves rivalry?

Pat Corrales getting under the skin of Dennis Cook.

Those were the days, huh?

Why does this have “walk off’ written all over it.

By Bye Maybe Bobby

August 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

DOB commented on the prospect of Bobby returning next year. His take on it is the same as mine. Bobby signed the extention to return for what most folks thought was a competitive Braves team. Does anyone (including Bobby, no matter what he says publicly) really believe this team is just a couple of pieces away from being a contender next year? Next year ain’t gonna be much better folks. It’s going to be a tough year for whoever manages this team. Why would Bobby want to go through a rebuilding process when he isn’t going to manage long enough to see the fruit of rebuilding? I only hope that he realizes that he doesn’t want to deal with the hassle next year and decides to retire.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Ouch walking Beltran to pitch to Delgado? I mean if we could get Delgado out then yea but man I don’ t feel right bout this

By N8

August 21, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

I realize it’s a “pick your poison” kind of situation with Beltran vs. Delgado.

But if you’re gonna walk Beltran to get to Delgado, why not walk them both and take your chance with the next guy in the lineup.

Maybe Delgado will hit into a double play. Yeah, right.

By Mitchell

August 21, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Here goes another f@#$^@# game, right down the f@#$^#@$ tubes.

Why is it we always have to start off every f@#$^@ inning with two outs. It’s not as if you would/should/could expect Nancy or Jeff to get a f!#$^@ hit but just one guy on ahead of Prado and we’d have The Cobra out there to close it.

Bobby might as well just tell Nunez to lob up an 80mph fastball right over the plate so we don’t have to use any more of the bullpen. Winning this game is not worth it anymore. We might as well save time and some arms by losing.

It’s for the best.

Of course we should have won by now anyway but the Braves are all a bunch of f!$@#$% invalids.

I’d just like to say to Ohman before it’s all over, “you f@#$^@$ up the easiest part of your job out there.”

By iowabrave

August 21, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Since we all know where this game is going, Predator is on TNT tonite in HD. Classic, sheer classic.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

UNBELIEVABLE. UN FREAKING REAL. HORRENDOUS. YOUR 2008 ATLANTA BRAVES LADIES AND GENTLEMAN

By ernesto

August 21, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Not just losign baseball. Painful to watch.

By Mr. Optimistic

August 21, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

this team sux break it all up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By monty

August 21, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

CURSED!!!

By ernesto

August 21, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Seriously, who has the Braves’ Vodoo doll, and how do we get it back?

By KND

August 21, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

I’m hoping that the Braves are saying publicly that Cox can stay as long as he wants but a little bird is whispering in BC’s ear that he needs retire immediately so he can go out on his terms and not be fired. Otherwise, what do we get next year? Players coddled, Cox playing guys regularly who need to sit more than play, no player with basic fundamentals and wearing out bullpens trying to get matchups. The Braves need to follow the Marlins lead. Their mgr makes them take infield b/c they have so many errors. How about BC making his team practice bunting and baserunning? Fining guys for swinging at first pitches, etc. And try giving up the pitching matchups and use past stats as a way to determine which reliever to use. I’m so ready for football…..

By keylargo

August 21, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Pepperidge

Did you see the hit that McCann got? That would be the game winning hit if Kotsay gets down a simple bunt. You had you two best hitters up next and all it woud take is a single. Quit blaming the wrong people.

By brent a.

August 21, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Another sterling example of just how good a team the Braves have.

These one-run losses are really padding Cox’s resume.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

You didn’t hafta slide like that, you little FREAK!

Why in the name of ALL that is holy do you WALK a guy to get to the man who is 3-3 with RISP that night?? I implore you all. WHY?

Ugh…the humanity…Night, all.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

wow season low

By New And Unusual

August 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Wow! That was entertaining! It’s now official! The Mets have turned into the Braves and the Braves have turned into….. the ‘62 Mets!! LOL

Are we going to run Marvelous Marv Throneberry out there tomorrow? LOLOLOLOL Where’s Casey Stengel? Oh yeah, he’s being played by Bobby Cox!

By Jeff321

August 21, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

For the 69th time this month, Cox calls for the intentional walk and it comes home to roost.

No way that run scores from first on Infante’s error. Oh wait, Cox walked the scoring run to second! Duh, you ignoramus!

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Oh…Well, the Fillies lost, anyway.

Nats break a 12 game losing streak, I think…

Night, again.

Errrrrrrrrrggggg…

By cabravesfan

August 21, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

ummm- how do they score that a hit? The BALL WENT OFF HIS F** GLOVE and you call that a HIT?

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Carlos Delgado = biggest Braves killer of all time.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Has anyone looked at the Braves remaining schedule???? 95 Loses is VERY likely

WHO CAN THE BRAVES BEAT? I think they will lose 100 - this team has a will to lose. Can ANYONE remember a team which has found more creative ways to lose games.

By I hate this team

August 21, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

The long list of players I hate and never want to see with the Atlanta Braves again after this season continues to grow.

Not it is Omar Infante. Get lost and never come back.

Only Chipper and McCann seem to be the non-pitchers worth keeping around.

By I hate this team

August 21, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

The long list of players I hate and never want to see with the Atlanta Braves again after this season continues to grow.

Now it is Omar Infante. Get lost and never come back.

Only Chipper and McCann seem to be the non-pitchers worth keeping around.

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

That was an appropriate ending.

I said a hearty “HI-YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” (a la Ed McMahon) when Omar botched that play.

Braves baseball. Is there anything better?

By A-ville Ranger

August 21, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

If it wasn’t happening it would be impossible…..yet again.

By Jake

August 21, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

By my count that’s three games we kind of gift wrapped for the Mets. Nice to see that we are such a giving team. As well as the Mets played coming into this series they didn’t blow us out of any game in this series with great play. I would say that we lost these games more than they won them, but sadly a loss is a loss and a win is a win. I’m not gonna sound off on Prado and Infante. They both are playing out of position. You don’t have a choice with Prado, but later in the games (especially when they are close) managers usually put in defensive replacements. I’m not one of those people calling for Bobby’s head but I will admit that there have been quite a few questionable moves this season whether it be with the bullpen or with the lineup. The sad thing here though is that this loss doesn’t even hurt. A year ago it would have but we have done it so much that I’m just use to it.

By Del

August 21, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

And the beat goes on and on and on and on. Will this season never end??

By monty

August 21, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

With apologies to Chipper and Joe Simpson, after wAtching David Wright play against Chipper I can understand why Wright got the “Gold Glove” last year. Forget the percentage points, Wright gets to balls Chipper wishes he could. Suddenly Chipper looks like a 38 year old with bad wheels. Terrible series for Chipper and the Braves.

This team looks like the teams I used to watch in the 80’s. They would come close to winning a game but usually wouldn’t. You just knew in your heart they would find a way to lose.

By SNIPER-69

August 21, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

McFann, I think the braves were playing for a double play when they walked Beltran to face Delgado.

By N Nine

August 21, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

With great major disappointment in my heart, 2008 will go down as the biggest heart-breaking year for me. I can’t believe the haunting nightmare never ends..As Chipper says The baseball GODS are against us and I am in great state of shock. I cant handle this..all this One run losses and injuries and #7’s quick outs..I’m done for the night………..;(

By atlsportstalk

August 21, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Another game p** away by Bobby Cox. Blanco should have been in at left field for defensive purposes. If Blanco is in it is a zinch double play. He could have picked off Wright at second. This season is over, but I want to see them finish with a little dignity. Try to get at or close to .500 ball. And guys another 1-run loss on the road. I think Keith Hernandez said it best: “The Braves are not executing, it is almost like their getting ready to lose”. Are we playing for a Draft Pick?

By Tomas

August 21, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Defense is just horrible. This is just like the 80’s, defensively this team is a joke. Bunting this team is a joke with the exception of Blanco, and some pitchers like Tim Hudson. But Kelly doesn’t has a range of 5 inches, Prado had never played first base so he is excused, but Will Ohman was late covering first, Chipper needs to fix that glove, the ball went through the webbing, and Infante isn’t a left fielder, and it’s obvious he isn’t comfortable out there. They had pitching, they got hits, but the little plays weren’t done, and turned into big plays, that led the Braves to lose. Escobar, did some very nice plays, Mac bloked a lot of pitches, chipper had a good play, but needs to fix that glove, Kotsay, and Frenchy are great as always, Kelly is a joke, why not let him play left, and give Infante second base.At least one position would greatly improved.

By brent a.

August 21, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

I would like some discussion on this:

Has anyone else noticed that for at least the last 3 years, Joe Simpson continually makes comments that express a dissastisfaction with the braves’ style of play, their fundamentals, etc.?

Also, did anyone hear his comment a couple of nights ago about how the Randolph/Manuel situation is evidence that yes, a manager can make a difference?

My personal take on Simpson’s comments is that he believes that the Braves lack the fundamental soundness to be a successful MLB team, and there seems to be an undercurrent in some of his comments, which indicates he believes Bobby Cox is at least partly responsible for the problems.

By atlsportstalk

August 21, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Another game p** away by Bobby Cox. Blanco should have been in at left field for defensive purposes. If Blanco is in it is a zinch double play. He could have picked off Wright at second. This season is over, but I want to see them finish with a little dignity. Try to get at or close to .500 ball. And guys another 1-run loss on the road. I think Keith Hernandez said it best: “The Braves are not executing, it is almost like their getting ready to lose”. Are we playing for a Draft Pick?

By Thor

August 21, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

I am not one calling for BC’s head, but I was listening to Sutcliff last night on the Angles/Rays game.

He made mention that you can tell how good a manager is by his one-run record (I think the Angles have one of the best and he was praising Scosia (sp?).

Went on to say that in a 3 to 4-run game it is mostly the players making plays, but in the 1 run games, many times it is moves the manager makes to win or lose.

Again, I don’t bash BC on every move, but he has made some curious decisions this season. That comment by Sutcliff immediately made me think about Cox this season….0-for-27 WOW!

By SNIPER-69

August 21, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

TnJeff, Yeah I remember. The 88, 89 and 90 braves were pretty creative teams that applies themselves to losing.

By dannycardwell

August 21, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

these braves remind me of the good old days in the 80s when you could bring your own beer in. ive taken my grand kids to 23 games this year only to see us win twice. ome of my kids asked me, grandpa if these guys cant play to win why dont the people that run things here bring up other players from the minor league and let them try. he is 8 years old. the only thing i could tell him was that the management here has a lot of education and very little common sense. if i hadnt already bought tickets for the year i would have stopped going to games when the braves ran up the white flag trading tex. francouer and kelly johnson should have been sent down months ago and other guys given a shot. the announcers killed me laughing about the mets charging 6.00 for a hot dog. its clear they havent paid for one at turner field in a few years. every year we shoot 2-3 retreads into the mix and lose. if theres not a lot of changes next year im afraid a lot of us are going to be watching more tv.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

FYI - the last replay clearly showed Blanco was out because he pulled up before touching the base because he was scared about running in to Delgado.

What’s more important - busting your hump to be safe at first base or avoiding injury so you can continue to play on a pathetic team and lose games.

This team has no heart - only a will to lose games.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

keylargo

USS IKE

By brent a.

August 21, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

I wish someone more intelligent than Sutcliffe had made those comments about 1-run wins.

Sutcliffe was a fine pitcher (and hitter), but he is a rather poor commentator.

By Drummerdad

August 21, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Amazing. Words can’t satisfy the disbelief.

By Mitchell

August 21, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Well I’ve certainly never seen that before.

Interesting.

There is undoubtedly an entartainment value in that… whatever exactly “that” thing of a thing was.

I’ve absolutely never seen anything quite like that in my entire life.

I mean if we’re sitting here like we have been last year and the year before that and all the way up to the middle part of this year, we’re torturing ourselves with the dellusion that we still have (had) a chance to get back in there and win the division.

These days you/we are able to rediscover the joys of baseball and to appreciate it in an entirely new way. There’s no pressure anymore, it’s just guys going out there and representing their fans and their city, doing their best. The game we love.

I mean if the Braves were in a pennant race right now and lost “that” game to our biggest rival in front of that many people it would be a freaking nightmare.

In the presently distorted reality of the Atlanta Braves I for one can’t help but embrace this circus freak show, cotton candy flavored, side-show carnival, bearded lady, midnight petting zoo, Jim Morrison acid trip with every ounce of my blissfully numb being.

But maybe that’s just me.

By A New Factor

August 21, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

For the first time in almost two decades, the Braves will have trouble getting a decent Free Agent to come to this trainwreck. I think the “everyone wants to play in Atlanta for Bobby Cox” factor will be an absolute non-factor. Desirable FA’s will go somewhere else for similar money rather than get involved in this fiasco called a team. Do the Braves have any other choice rather than rebuilding by trades?

Like someone mentioned above, the losses don’t even hurt any more. In fact, I chuckled when Infante blew up in left field.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Braves announcers make excuses for their little league play. Immediately after Infante drops the ball to lose the game the announcer covers his poor defense with blaming the lights.

Simpson is the ONLY one who occasionaly questions things. For example, noting that Frenchy is simply watching the game rather than observing and going up to the plate with some sort of idea about how to approach the pitcher.

By brent a.

August 21, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

TNJeff,

I’ve been reminding myself of that BC comment all stinking year.

It was an embarrassment when Cox said it, and the mental weakness revealed by that comment has continually reared its ugly head throughout this abysmal season.

It’s a shame to see such a legendary manager lose it this badly and to seem to be thoroughly incapable of doing anything to help the problem.

The man pitches to Jason Kendall with the pitcher on deck, with 2 outs in a 1 run game; but continually walks Carlos Beltran to face Carlos Delgado.

Bobby’s efforts have continually lost us games this season. Over and over and over.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

N Nine… And by #7 you mean!….__

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

What do I think about the Braves execution? - I’m all for it

By Robert S

August 21, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

I’ll sum up tonight and this season’s edition of Los Bravos with a quote allegedly made by the late, great Casey Stengel upon initially seeing his 1962 Mets play:

“Can’t anybody here play this game?”

By SNIPER-69

August 21, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

The METS just S-W-E-P-T themselves into a 2.5 game lead in the NL East. Can you dig it? Even Chipper loves NY!!

By N8

August 21, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

As of this moment, we are tied for the 6th worst record and thus the 6th overall pick in next June’s draft.

But the eternal optimist in me (only a little sarcasm), has enough “faith” in this bunch, that I KNOW we can better that, since we are only a game out of being in the 4th slot of the draft.

Isn’t this fun?

After next year’s draft…..go Braves in 2011!

By Robin

August 21, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

brent a. : Sure, I’ve noticed it. Joe is dead-on too IMHO. This team has been swimming in a sea of complacency since ‘95. Lots of places to point fingers alright. First to go, needs to be this blase’ attitude that’s festered over the years. Yeah, many of you will call it “being professional” …. blah, blah, blah …..

Guess what! Last time I checked, “professionals” were the ones winning. Winners aren’t born, they’re cultivated!

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Del

The movie “Groundhog Day” comes to mind.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

My words when Infante blew it - AMAZING

Now little leaguers this is not what to do - exhibit “A” your 2008 Atlanta Braves. the poster boy this year (replacing Andruw Jones) is Frenchy.

By Brett Butler fan

August 21, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

I only saw the last part of the game, where Infante lost the ball in the lights. I feel sorry for him. Anyone who has ever played the game and has experienced what it feels like to see a line drive suddenly disappear in a bright light and wonder if it will hit you between the eyes, must have some degree of sympathy.

Reading this and other blogs has been informative at times and maddening at others. For example, no matter what Bobby Cox does, he is vilified.”Why did he attempt to have Kotsay bunt?” “Why did he play Infante in left?” and on and on. He’s darned if he does, and darned if he doesn’t. If you have ever been a coach, you know how disgusting and maddening it is to be criticized by people who know just enough to be dangerous. You criticize Terry Pendleton without knowing the day to day activities of the team. Yes, these players are overpaid, but the fans have let it happen by paying exorbitant ticket prices which continue to rise. Asking to pay a pitcher or any player $20 million is ridiculous. Look at what has happened with Manny. He has been allowed to make his own rules because he is owed so much money. It’s absurd. And the poor manager is left to deal with him!

Nevertheless, the players and coaches still have to try to do their work. They don’t want to be embarrassed and/or called names either. Too much negativity is not a positive motivator. If you break ‘em down, you have to build ‘em back up. That goes for coaches, too.

Hey, I’m frustrated too, but it’s not helpful for me to come here and be mean-spirited. Imagine yourself in the other man’s shoes. Have fun with this blog. Go Braves!

By SNIPER-69

August 21, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

That’s funny….no LEW, Shaun, braveheart or D!ck Holliday. Where are those guys now? Boy were they talking a lot of sh!t early in the season. I told you your team wasn’t that talented, healthy or young.

By fastasballs

August 21, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Well the Braves are really making a run at a top 5 draft pick. If the Nats & Pads get hot, maybe they can aim higher than that.

If a team ever needed a the season to end today it’s the Braves. One thing the 80’s teams never had to begin the season was promise of a good year. They knew that opening day was probably their last day in first place for the season.

The 80’s teams didn’t have any talent except for Murphy & when Horner was healthy. This team has talent, but they hide it well.

By Drummerdad

August 21, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

TNJeff, The ‘87 and ‘90 Braves hit the high water mark for this kind of play. If they won 2 or 3 in a row my wife would needle me that “they must be in a slump, huh.”

By gayle

August 21, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

It’s now official, with tonight’s loss, the Braves will have to win every remaining game to get to 90 wins and a chance for a playoff spot.

Any takers?

By Commentator Rick Sutcliffe

August 21, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

For the record, I think brent a. is a rather poor commentator in his own right.

I’m gonna go get some beers now.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

A legitimate question

Did anyone else notice Kotsay smile after catching the inning ending long fly ball to center and sort of waving it to the cheering fans?

Why was he happy? The Braves had just given up the 1 run lead and the game was now tied. Can’t ever remember being happy after blowing a lead.

This team has a will to lose - 100 games

By TommyP

August 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Reading this blog is hilarious. Y’all are simply masochists. The funniest post was someone saying, “We’ve hit a season low.” No….that was awhile back when we were so called “in it.”

I just find no reason to watch this team and haven’t watched a full game since the trade deadline. There’s simply no reason to watch.

You have a roster that is obviously going through the motions. How many times have people written on here, “7 pitch inning” for the opposing pitcher? It’s becoming more and more a staple on here. Sounds like a team trying to get the game/season over with.

DOB said something to the effect of, “The only thing more enjoyable than the blog is actually watching the games” or something like that. No, Dave. The blog is the only enjoyment left.

I refuse to watch a heartless bunch of millionairres play out the string for a couple of months.

My brother talked with a few of the season ticket holders around him last week and they all agreed that they can’t give their tickets away. They also mentioned wanting to see some rookies called up to at least provide a spark, show some semblance of hustle, heart, love of the game, anything.

Let me know when we call up a few youngsters to get an extended look at what they can do.

Meanwhile, the Olympics are the bridge that will get me to college football.

By Mitchell

August 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Am I the only one who’s not totally bummed out about that game?

I mean, I definitely was going crazy watching Ohman fail to cover first base which again, for the record, is the easiest part of what he has to do out there.

But then, for me at least, the resignation sets in and I somehow am able to let it go.

That was crazy though wasn’t it?

It’s just that it’s so bad, we’re so bad (they’re so bad), that you know there is a greater power involved. It’s an all-emcompassing gravitational pull in the orbit of suck.

We can only watch, or not watch, as it takes its course and hope that it never returns. Technically I think anything in orbit tends to return to one or more locations it previously had been, but you know what I mean, of course.

But it’s still mid-August for the love of God. Make it stop!

I think the Cubs and Mets owe us something from now on. We beat the crap out of the Cubs last year, they have a big fight and then get on a roll. We sweep the Mets at the Ted, they fire their manager and then this happens.

Pay it back b***.

By Brian

August 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

WOW!!! We all need this season to hurry up so we don’t lose are minds! It has to get better in 09’, I mean haven’t we used all the bad luck up? Well anyways lets sign Julian Kreuger to an extension-he did his job.(not really) Omar is the perfect utility guy but no more. We need speed! Maby Furcal/Hudson at second,Prado will be traded along with others for pitching or a bat I’m sure. No we are not cursed its just mental. If Cox had more to work with none of you would be bashing him because we would be in 1st or 2nd. He does suck at running the bullpen though. We need Gant- he looks like he can get nasty if you don’t listen. That’s what’s missing to.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Braves baseball. Is there anything better?

Oh, yes, cue up the melodramatic music to go along with the yuppie-st, whitest voice ever on a commercial ………..

It’s the magic in every game………… the look on a kid’s face as a leftfielder playing second base drops a flyball the kid could have caught ………… the look on a kid’s face as a second baseman playing left field drops a line drive the kid could have caught ………… Atlanta Braves baseball ………. is there anything better?

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

One of my coworkers playing “Bad Moon Risin’” by CCR. Very appropo!!

By Couch Tater

August 21, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

southbeachdietfreak@10:48

Night of the living dead?

By ncscoots

August 21, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you remember a post I made a few weeks ago concerning the the tenor of the blog once the white flag went up? Hilarious, you called it, though I don’t remember levity being its prime intent.

I think I’ve seen the answer to the question posed by that post. The whine and cheese continue unabated. I’m now convinced that nothing can stop the unadulteratedly puerile b***’ that has become the norm for this forum.

Folks may think the Braves are a long way from contending; personally, I think the blog is many pieces shorter. David, that is not a reflection on you or Carroll or this blog’s concept. But, frankly, it’s no longer the Braves/MIB/BBQ/Banana Pudding blog. It’s just the Vent on steroids, and, while that may be entertaining for some here (as obviously it is), it fails to hold my attention.

This forum was once an oasis of eclectic, entertaining, and surprising content, and the quality thereof depended not a whit on the state of the team. But no more. Now, it is just overrun by dolts with no more knowledge of baseball than some Ukrainian gymnast, spouting cliches and moaning enough to make an ex-wife proud.

Oh, sure, there are still a few here voicing a coherent thought…most of them long-timers, and many I consider blog-friends, but they are slim reeds in the face of the current brutal wind howling through these environs. Mostly, I see a sad end to a previously award-winning endeavor. Or, if not an end, a depressing interlude.

Congratulations to all of you who have made it possible.

By hajo

August 21, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Looked like the Gwinnett Braves made their first appearance tonight.

I wonder whether these guys will play harder, better against the Phils? Has Tommy G and their soft spot for Shea got them liking the Mets more than they should?

These pros wouldn’t take sides, would they?

Nobody likes the Phils though. Nobody. Right?

Naaahhh. AAA Braves just happened to show up for these three games. Pure coincidence that they played so pathetically.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

TNJeff

your 10:43 had me ROTFLMAO.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Gayle

You’re back. I’m asking if there are any takers (to join me) on Braves LOSING 100 games. Think they have a great shot at losing 95. After tonight this team seems destined to lose 100.

By New York Sucks

August 21, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

I think Infante lost it in the lights.

By See ya

August 21, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Take a hike NC Scoots

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

…that nothing can stop the unadulteratedly puerile b*’ that has become the norm for this forum

Careful about using those big words… happy hour was a long-long time ago.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Nevertheless, the players and coaches still have to try to do their work. They don’t want to be embarrassed and/or called names either. Too much negativity is not a positive motivator. If you break ‘em down, you have to build ‘em back up. That goes for coaches, too. Hey, I’m frustrated too, but it’s not helpful for me to come here and be mean-spirited. Imagine yourself in the other man’s shoes.

Gimme a break. This team has been the most coddled damn team for years. Fans sold out the joint and chopped like madmen. They only won once. When the fans got the sense that the team wasn’t going the extra mile to win it all, they stopped even showing up for playoff games. When they sold them the Baby Braves, the fans came back out and were positive again. Positive didn’t work. Indifference didn’t work. Negativity probably won’t work either but, hell, fans are a bit entitled to be a bit negative right about now.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

who gets to accept the award?

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear that about Glavine. NO TJS. Hope he has a great recovery.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Ncscoots, it’s the nature of the beast. People are very upset over a Braves team that’s playing very poorly and hasn’t been this bad since 1990. I can understand where they’re coming from. Some are over-the-top crass, classless hateful individuals who are only here to agitate and spout bitter, personal attacks, but the vast majority are just real fans who are angry about their team.

What are you gonna do? All you can do is provide the type of content you (and I) prefer, but if a lot of people want to vent instead, hey, this, too, shall pass. Yours is not the first, or the fifth, diagnosis of this blog as dire or dying. And I’ve gotta say, none of the previous predictions of its demise have come to pass.

Now, about tonight: I go with Gonzo, not Vlad Nunez in that ninth inning, if not to start the inning then certainly after Wright’s one-out double, with Beltran and Delgado due up.

Don’t care about the book and saving my closer in case the team takes the lead on the road; I’m using Gonzo in that situation. Team’s not contending, just trying to win as many games as possible. And that was the game, there. We all knew it was the game after Wright’s double.

That said, Nunez made a couple of good pitches that Wright and Delgado hit. The one to Delgado was down and away, a very good pitch. Dude just flicked his bat and muscled it out to left. And Infante couldn’t handle it. Lost it in the lights, he said. Whatever, it was an out and possible double play if he catches it, because Wright had taken off for home.

By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers

August 21, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

keylargo: “Did you see the hit that McCann got? That would be the game winning hit if Kotsay gets down a simple bunt. You had you two best hitters up next and all it woud take is a single. Quit blaming the wrong people.”

McCann Aug: .273/.337/.511

Kotsay Aug: .327/.393/.564

Irrespective of what Chipper and McCann did subsequently, there were better odds of a better outcome if Kotsay had been allowed to hit, rather than forced to bunt. Don’t shoot the messenger.

And a one run lead probably wouldn’t have stood up anyway — the game ended with 1 out, Mets on 1sr & 2nd, with probably a PH (for Ayala) and Easley coming up.

“Game winning hit”“, indeed, Not!!! Short-lived go-ahead hit, more likely.

PS: “Quit blaming the wrong people.”

Okay — I’ll blame you.

(I blame you and your sheer and utter ignorance, that can make the “logical” leap from 200 Miami Cubans cheerfully accepting free tix to see Escobar play once against the Marlins, to 5,000 additional Miami Cubans each home game actually paying to see him play with them every day. That was rich — especially when you argued that the same numbers would apply if Brayan Pena went to the Marlins instead of Escobar.)

No, not really — I still blame Cox.

And you.

By A-ville Ranger

August 21, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

I’ve been steadfast in one thing all year.I’ve said unequivocally that I want Chipper to remain a Brave his whole career.

After watching him since the Tex trade, it’s less clear to me.It seems he has a hard time hiding a lack of interest in the remainder of the season.In fact the one face that seems to define this epic apathy is that of Mr Jones.

There needs to be long reflection by top management this off season.How deep should the changes go ? Damned if I know but all options should be considered.

By Brett Butler fan

August 21, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

ncscoots at 11:04 Thank you for your literate and thoughtful post. Let’s have more. And thanks to all of you who use humor to entertain us. Come on Braves, break the Sisyphus cycle. Push that boulder over the top of the hill!

By I'm just saying

August 21, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Man,to see the Braves a shell of it’s former self is really sad. Can’t execute the most routine plays. Pitcher late covering first base, failing to put down a proper bunt,can’t catch a simple fly ball in the outfield.I Know Rome wasn’t built in a day but it can be torn down in a day. Lets go Mets!!!!!!!

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

TNJeff,

I believe that uga-brave had a +/- 70 wins pool a while back. I don’t know how many others posted a guess, but I had 73-89.

The Braves will have to go .500 to match that now.

Looks like I’m out.

By monty

August 21, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

I saw this crap coming in May when the losing streak in one run losses was 0-8 or so. May of you said, “just a fluke didn’t mean anything. Then it got to be up into the teens, I’m griping and still many of you said, “not to worry,the one run loss thing is some kind of statistical error that doesn’t mean anything and is not a true indicator of a bad team or a bad coach, I don’t hear too many of you saying anything like that now!C’mon baseball geniuses, support your theories now!

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Say what you will about David Wright (and we’ve said plenty), but the dude can flat-out play, and he strikes me as a winner who cares an awful lot.

By A Bemused Observer

August 21, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Really tough luck.

If Glavine had been able to pitch tonight, he would have been “LIGHTS OUT”.

Therefore, Infante couldn’t have “LOST IT IN THE LIGHTS”. The lights would have been “OUT”.

Really tough luck.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

It’s true that the blog has been very negative recently but what is there to be positive about?

The Braves really haven’t given us anything to enjoy. They just look so lifeless out on the field.

I’m actually a little surprised Bobby is still tolerating it.

By Anders

August 21, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Monty

With apologies to Chipper and Joe Simpson, after wAtching David Wright play against Chipper I can understand why Wright got the “Gold Glove” last year. Forget the percentage points, Wright gets to balls Chipper wishes he could. Suddenly Chipper looks like a 38 year old with bad wheels. Terrible series for Chipper and the Braves.

Glad someone other than me has finally said this. Been trying to explain this to the understandably Chipper faithful on here. He did get to a couple of tough balls but Wright got to all of them.

Chipper really did look old in this series. It’s only gonna get worse from here for him. But hey, what do I know -Right DOB?

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

I know people think I’m just shooting off without any knowledge concerning the Braves losing 100 games. However, I’ve actually checked the schedule and do not see them winning but possibly 1 series the rest of the year (against Houston to close the season).

As a blogger already noted - this series sweep sweep was gift-wrapped to the Mets. I expect there will be other sweeps ahead. Look how poorly the Braves played against a good team like the Cubs and also against a weak team like the Giants.

We may have money to spend in the off season but how do you cure all these problems? Winning breeds winning as 14 division championships can attest. Likewise, losing breeds losing. Think we’re in for some lean years to continue

By Brian

August 21, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Julian Tavares has done better than average out of the bullpen for a couple of weeks now. He could be here next year and that would be OK. I appologize for that stupid comment.

By atlantaisloservilleagain

August 21, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

break out the paper sacks…I knew this would happen. This team is awful and won’t get a dime from me

By Brett Butler fan

August 21, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

“When they sold them the Baby Braves, the fans came back out and were positive again. Positive didn’t work. Indifference didn’t work. Negativity probably won’t work either but, hell, fans are a bit entitled to be a bit negative right about now.”

I understand and don’t disagree with you, Braveheart. It’s difficult not to want an outlet to vent when the team keeps finding ways to lose.

To Bemused Observer- Good post at 11:28. Still laughing…

By Bill S.

August 21, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

I watched the game on the Mets channel tonight. Interesting that 3 times in the last 3 innings, Mets announcers Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez questioned decisions by Cox BEFORE they backfired. With Braves ahead 4-3 in bottom of 7th, they questioned not guarding the lines to prevent a double. Sure enough, Mets hit a ball right inside 3rd for a double with one out. Had Chipper been playing the line it would have been a routine out. Instead of 2 out nobody on, that runner eventually scored the tying run. With Escobar on 1st to lead off the top of the 8th, they questioned why Kotsay was bunting on the first pitch, when the best case scenario for the Braves would be that even if he was successful, first base would be open and the Braves would take the bat out of Chipper’s hands. Next pitch, Kotsay bunts into a double play. After Chipper walked and McCann singled, they both said Braves could have been primed for a big inning if they hadn’t bunted. Then at the end, they questioned walking Beltran to set up the double play, when that meant Delgado would get a shot at winning the game, and they both noted that Nunez was made to order for Delgado. He liked to pitch sinkers low and away, and Delgado loves those pitches. They then noted that Delgado was 2 for 2 lifetime against Nunez with a home run. (remind anyone of Liebrant, a change-up pitcher, coming in to pitch to Puckett, the best change-up hitter in baseball). All these decisions led to another addition to the one-run road loss record streak. Spark Anderson once said that he didn’t care what a manager’s overall record was. He judged managers by their won-loss record in one run games. Those are the games, he said, where a manager can make the difference. I didn’t watch any of the Braves broadcast, but I’d be willing to bet, none of those moves were even mentioned by the Braves announcers. That’s the main reason that as a Braves fan since 1957, I was watching the Mets broadcast.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Renegator

The only thing Cox does not EVER tolerate is/are umpires - thus he gets thrown out of the game.

There’s a reason why players love to play for Cox. Nobody wants a manager that will throw you under the bus before the press. But seems to me you got to sit some guys down who aren’t hustling or producing.

Torre sat Andruw down in LA (now on DL) - something Cox failed to do all last season

By southbeachdietfreak

August 21, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

atlantaisloservilleagain

what’s the point of paper sacks… if you wear them at the game, you’re still supporting the team!!

Paper-sack people crack me up!LOL.

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

ncscoots & DOB

I’m trying to have actual dialogue with other bloggers. I’m reformed now.

Still wondering - though nobody has answered - if anyone else thought it strange that Kotsay was smiling so big after catching the last out in the inning the Braves had given up the lead?

By Anders

August 21, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

Say what you will about David Wright (and we’ve said plenty), but the dude can flat-out play, and he strikes me as a winner who cares an awful lot.

Santana, Soriano,Glavine and now Wright. Only 8 more steps in your Anders recovery program. I’m proud of the progress you’ve made this season. Treat yourself to some barbecue tonight.

By Stevie Winwood

August 21, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

Follow me, it’s good for you

That good old fashioned medicated goo

Ooo, ain’t it good for you

My own, home-grown recipe’ll see you through

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

TNJeff

Have you seen how much these guys make just to “go thru the motions” on the field?

I’d be smiling big too.

By Anders

August 21, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

BillS

Since you watched the Mets broadcast I guess you also heard them questioning why Cox was so sedate this series. They were shocked he didn’t come out to argue the close play at first in the top of the 9th where the Brave was clearly safe. Personally I think the decision is already made that Cox is done. Wether he made it himself or not -who knows? I think DOB’s instincts (inside mole) are correct on this.

By bfan54

August 22, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Is this unique? I mean has there EVER been a seaason where this team has no core of players. ‘who with the addition’ of others can compete? Never, until the past few days, have I been of the “blow up the team” mindset. The past- was it 20, 30, 40, 50 games has convinced me. I like some BA’s and ERA’s, and SO/K ratios, but the guys producing them are LOSERS - ok, harsh, but true! None of us want to admit this, but our future isn’t Infante, Prado, K Johnson, and - I hate to say it, but the furure isn’t Chipper. He doesn’t inspire and he doesn’t lead us to victories. He isn’t - as much as we want some continuity - the face of the future. Ok, you can’t fire the whole team, so there are a few who will escape ‘team armegeddon’, but, these escapees, are transitional. The team which will compete in the future does not depend on ANY of our current 25.

I am not an not an emotional guy; and only the numbers, drive my pessimism. I am shocked at how quickly a team with injury problems dissolved into a team without either pride or future. I doubt anyone will read these thoughts, as this blog has its regulars and bomb-throwes, ad DOB will have never respond to a post such as this - for many reasons.

Bf54 - many, many seasons preceded these views. Oh, the horror!!

By Ander's Mom

August 22, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Ander’s dear, stop blogging and come upstairs for some dinner.

We’re having couscous. But I can’t tell if those brown things are raisins or cockroaches. Oh, dear!

By TNJeff

August 22, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Wonder if Kotsay didn’t realize the Mets had tied the game?

Earlier (either tonight or last night), left fielder (thus Infante or Blanco) started trotting in from the field without realizing that there were only 2 outs.

Braves pitchers seem to forget often that they need to keep pitching after 2 outs

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

nite all…

By N8

August 22, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

DOB

To your knowledge, when Time Warner took over and then Liberty Media, was the “budget” for scouting cut along with the payroll of the actual players?

Because it seems to me that if the Braves aren’t gonna be “big” spenders on any free agents (maybe they will be with Wren, but they never were with JS), that they might be better advised sticking some of the surplus of payroll money, back into some scouting and developing.

There used to be a day when that was the Braves’ forte’. If I’m not mistaking, we were literally the ONLY team that had scouts in the Curacao area, thus basically had no “competition” to find Andruw. I might be wrong on that note, if so, please correct me.

But teams that do what we’ve done recently, which is let our high priced free agents walk, would be better served focusing on younger talent and having as much of it as possible. In the past, we used that surplus of young talent to make trades for high priced players, these days, we need those younger more talented guys to fill our roster.

Except, we need those younger guys to be more consistent than some of our younger talent has been lately. Which is why I say spend more money on your instructors and minor league coaches/managers.

Hell, if LM is feeling really frisky, they could up payroll AND spend more on scouting and developmental resources.

By Oz

August 22, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

life is sweet on tampa bay bandwagon(spirit of ‘91 revisited)…best i can manage @ this point

By Renegator

August 22, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

As much as I have hated on Bobby Cox this year (rightfully so in my opinion) it’s sad that he might go out on a year like this. I mean, there is really nothing to be proud of this year. It seems like every decision he has made this year has backfired and now his team has absolutely quit on him.

It’s really too bad…

By Oz

August 22, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

ROCCO’S BACK, BABY! LOOK OUT!!

By Commentator Rick Sutcliffe

August 22, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Not sure if anybody has addressed this, but the goo thing, well, how do I put this…

It’s just not very funny. At all. Not sure it should have made the cut for one post, much less twenty a night. For weeks.

By fastasballs

August 22, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

It’s not the losing that bothers most Braves fans I know. The talent is there for a decent squad even with the injuries. Division winners? No, but a heck of a lot better than this putrid show they have put on for the better part of the season.

Something has got to give & it should start with the coaching staff. I doubt that happens because listening to Wren talk he’s going to go for next season. What exactly does that mean? We’ll find out I guess.

Cox has lost this team or vice versa. Either he’s lost it or the entire team is unable to be coached or play baseball. It’s not bad luck to lose 27 straight 1 run road games. Could that streak possibly continue into a 3rd season?

Have you ever seen a team play worse fundamental baseball than this team does? As a whole they can’t run the bases, cover bases, bunt, hit cut off men or basically any other routine part of the game.

It’s not just this season either, the bunting goes back 2-3 seasons. There is a long history of players being allowed to get into horrible habits & nobody ever corrects it. There is never any accountability for failure, even the fringe guys like Miller, Woodward & Orr get to stick around long after it’s clear they are not major league players.

Basically Cox has a free pass to manage until he decides to hang them up. He’s not gotten the job done for 3 straight seasons. He lives on past reputation & the success of the past.

As the field general the ultimate responsibility should lie with the manager, especially after 3 seasons of underachievement.

He’s not responsible for everything that has gone wrong, but the handling of the pen, line ups & to a degree roster moves are entirely his responsibility. Agree?

Only the Helen Keller school of Braves fans could be positive about this team & even they might be giving the ole we’re # 1 salute to the team.

Believe me nobody but die hard Braves fans are going to be on this blog day in & day out commenting about how to fix this team. None of us are GM’s or managers, but we all want a winning team on the field & a manager who makes moves to put the team is a position to succeed. We’re not getting either one right now.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Renegator

it’s sad that he might go out on a year like this. I mean, there is really nothing to be proud of this year.

You’ll be saying the same thing about Chipper in a couple of years if they don’t move him this off season for some new foundation.

By DanR

August 22, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Anyone know what happened to Kris Medlen tonight? I see he only faced two batters. I presume he got hurt somehow, but couldn’t find a game story.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Anders Mom

I have to tell you your stuff is very funny. You actually have a cult following up here in NY.

Keep it coming.

By Renegator

August 22, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Anders

There is no way the Braves move Chipper. They can’t move him without his permission. He’s got it too good here to want to go anywhere else. I believe Chipper will finish as a Brave and I hope he retires before we are having this conversation about him instead of Bobby Cox. I’d guess that 2010 will be Chipper’s last year.

By bfan54

August 22, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

DOB: I understand your dilemma. Add a little “hope springs eternal”, some selective stats from the last…what (10, 20, 30 games?), a dash of youth (Jurrgens. McCann), pick the best stats of some players over the past 3 years (Francouer, KJ, Escobar, Diaz), and assume that some old, injured players came make a comeback…well, you get my drift. My question is who is there to build on, and, since we can easily answer that question, who will take us there? Got it, Dave, who will take us there?

You won’t comment on this - you have your list of “acceptable bloggers” worthy of comment (and some of whom who inspire your ire), but I think I speak for many a Braves fan, who have serious reservations about the team’s prospects for the next 3-4 years. Who will be our next Henry, our next Spahn or Nuxie, our next Road Runner, our next Rico Carty, or Orlando Cepado? Get my dfift? No, you would never condescend to speak to the “Historical Brave”! You just wouldn’t!

Carthago delenda est.

I am calling you out, DOB - this is the season of our discontent!

By bfan54

August 22, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

DOB: I understand your dilemma. Add a little “hope springs eternal”, some selective stats from the last…what (10, 20, 30 games?), a dash of youth (Jurrgens. McCann), pick the best stats of some players over the past 3 years (Francouer, KJ, Escobar, Diaz), and assume that some old, injured players came make a comeback…well, you get my drift. My question is who is there to build on, and, since we can easily answer that question, who will take us there? Got it, Dave, who will take us there?

You won’t comment on this - you have your list of “acceptable bloggers” worthy of comment (and some of whom who inspire your ire), but I think I speak for many a Braves fan, who have serious reservations about the team’s prospects for the next 3-4 years. Who will be our next Henry, our next Spahn or Nuxie, our next Road Runner, our next Rico Carty, or Orlando Cepado? Get my dfift? No, you would never condescend to speak to the “Historical Brave”! You just wouldn’t!

Carthago delenda est.

I am calling you out, DOB - this is the season of our discontent!

By Brian

August 22, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

I hope we keep Kotsay but I think he’ll be traded. What could we get for him? Chip Carey: WOW!!! What a play by Wright!! Now that’s how a gold glover looks-Chipper. No one better than that kid. Braves are done,get swept by Mets,Cubs- the best team in baseball! What a dream come true!!!!!

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

Renegator

I know Chipper has a no trade. I asked DOB about this already and he said Chipper told him he wants to stay a Brave but he would consider a trade if that’s what the team wanted and it would help. As I said then, Wren wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t at least survey the market this off season to see what Chipper could bring. I know you all want him to remain a Brave forever and I understand it but have you considered that he might not want to play through two more sub .500 seasons? No fun in that when your at this point of his HOF career.

By uga-brave

August 22, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

scoots,

while i have always enjoyed your posts, i thinks sometimes you forget that this is a open forum.

the mob is fickle my man. they live and die with every death or victory.

that being said the mob is ready to run out the greatest manager this city has ever seen.

is it his fault that his options in the pen are nunez or tavarez?

is it his fault that ohman was late to first base or that nitram odarp was forced to play first base?

is it his fault that our great young core of frenchy and kelly come up in the ninth and hit two weak ground balls?

is it his fault that we have so many non-winners on this roster?

frank wren and the super genius player development guys that got so caught up in this local thing gave us this absolute collection of marginal talent to say it nicely.

to say the blog has become a place you no longer enjoy is a indictment of the the talent on the field.

what do you expect?

when this putrid play continues night after night, the comments are going to echo that.

DOB, not that you need my support or praise i have always thought you give a honest take.

you have not played the party lines like some have said.

you put up the numbers that buster onley put out there.

you put it out there for us to comment on. that is the job of the blog moderator.

while this season has caved in upon itself, many newcomers have taken their shots right or wrong.

while the content may or may not be right, educated or not, this will be still a gerat place to exchange fustrations, talk about music, movies, and barbeque.

that is a testament to DOB. he does a darn fine job of keeping us, or at least me interested.

SCOOTS, clemson’s credibility is on the line next week at the georgia dome. good things to look forward too, no?

lighten up my man. your posts i always read.

we are coming into the best time of the year. college football, meaningful baseball, sans the braves, HOLY CORNEILIA, it could always be worse.

think if these losses actually would of meant something.

By cityofdecatur

August 22, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

there is NO reason not to bring up the kids now with the way we are playing. this season really hurt . at least i recorded Skips last game

By Brian

August 22, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

What about Joe Simpson for manager? or Brian Jordan? nah, he’d confuse them more than they already are. Joe Simpson might actually be a real good manager though.

By uga-brave

August 22, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

chop chop,

i myself had 68-94, i might be out as well. i think the over under is now around 97 losses.

By Roman Gal

August 22, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

Dan R Medlin pitched yesterday but the game was suspended so they continued to play today. Medlin walked a man and the game was suspended before he could get out of the inning. Today the first batter got a hit off of Heath and Medlin’s baserunner scored…that’s why he got the loss.

By N8

August 22, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

fastasballs

amen.

I’ve got a buddy (I used to tell Robert that he reminded me of my friend Brad), that pretty much said after last year, that he’s not watching another Braves game, and certainly wasn’t gonna pay for the Extra Innings package until Bobby was gone.

I told him he was crazy and that as a BRAVES fan, I refuse to ignore them. That being said, I jumped off the Bobby bandwagon years ago. But there was enough talent on this team to win IN SPITE of him, rather than because of him.

But you’re right. The ONLY thing that would get him fired, would be a brand new owner (a man….NOT a company), that would come in and clean house like Jerry Jones did in Dallas. Seems that getting rid of the HOF, and legend HC named Tom Landry wasn’t such a stupid move after all a few years down the road.

I think that Cox has earned the right to leave when he wants, and don’t think he should be fired. But I wouldn’t have a problem if his contract was just not re-upped. Of course, it already has been, so whaddya do?

I believe if Wren does the right thing in constructing this roster next year, that Bobby could lead them to the post-season again. But after the past three seasons, one of two things are clear:

Our roster just isn’t that good, or Bobby isn’t as good at “getting the most” out of the players, like he allegedly used to.

But I’m not certain that Wren will do the right thing. He’ll try and band-aid this roster like JS did the previous two off-seasons. That didn’t work when we DID have Hudson and Smoltz to lean on. Now with them out of the mix (possibly with Smoltz), Wren really has his work cut out for him.

Move one? Francoeur CANNOT be the centerpiece of the outfield. Going into next year, he should be penciled in as the 3rd best offensive outfielder, in the 8th spot in the order, and let the kid relax and play defense, and most of all…..have fun.

If we go into next year, expecting him to be a 4-6 hole hitter, the season will be over faster than you can say Brad Komminsk.

Second, ANY contribution from Glavine, Smoltz (and god forbid), Hampton should be considered BONUS. If either of those three guys are counted on for anything other than “bench coach” ability, it won’t matter WHERE Francoeur is penciled in to hit.

I’m of the belief that NOBODY is gonna wanna come to Atlanta as a free agent (money talks, but remember…Andruw Jones turned down the Royals….we’re NOW in the Royals category, even with Bobby). Wren is gonna have to make trades and take on salary that way.

If Bobby stays, Wren basically owes it to him to “go for it”. But if Bobby steps down and a new regime takes over, I’m not so sure that I “go for it” if I’m Wren next year. Save the money. Take on some stop gap guys as so the team doesn’t embarrass themselves like they have this year, and move forward.

Similar to the NFL, a manager shouldn’t be forced to take over a team in the mold of his predecessor’s making. Right now the Braves are in prime position with all the high dollars coming off the books, for a change of direction.

Maybe another manager, would like to go with a pitching, speed and defense style of ball? Making guys like Blanco part of the mix moving forward. But that would also make a guy like KJ and yes, the Golden Boy expendable.

As much as it would pain Braves fans, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t approach Chipper about changing locations, unless he is dead set on being a guy that plays every game of his career with one uniform. Then again, even a young team needs a leader. But he seriously deserves better. I’d say move him to first, but despite Kotchman’s slow start, I think he’ll be a nice bat (and glove) over there for a few years, provided we have power from the 3B position.

Anyhow….

By Jake

August 22, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

I don’t know what to think about Bobby. Reading DOB’s comments earlier in reference to his so called certain job security was interesting. It’s funny how people(me included) talk about all the adjustments that Francoeur needs to make because the league has figured him out and made adjustments to him and this has him struggling mightily. Well I think now the same thing can be said for Bobby. We have seen numerous times this year when past employees of him have outguessed him on the field. Part of his problem has been bad decisions and part of it has been that he has just been predictable. He hasn’t really shaken anything up. I agree with DOB in that our season is over, we aren’t fighting for anything so why not put in Gonzalez. I think the last time he had a save chance was that first game in Arizona and from the looks of things they will continue to come few and far between. Things don’t matter at this point in the season for us so why not try something that you normally wouldn’t. It can’t make us any worse.

On a lighter note nice to see Mac break out of his slump tonight. Escobar also had a good night. A slower throwing Pedro worked well for him as he seemed to have a good approach from the beginning. Some players I think were expecting the old Pedro. Prado even did well filling in at first. He made a nice stab and got Delgado’s ball. If only Ohman had covered. I feel bad for Infante because that was a sure double play, but that’s been the luck of the braves this year. It’s weird because I was watching sportscenter and they actually had it as a top play. A play where a guy coulda, woulda, and shoulda been doubled off and would have went back to the dugout shaking his head turns into a spectacular play when a player loses the ball at the last minute in the lights. I guess that’s an advantage to playing in New York.

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

The mob + DOB keeps me interested.

I like chaos. This blog is barely-caged chaos. That’s why I keep coming back. The “old days” were fine, but things got a little clubby around here. Open forums are where it’s at. I get bored with the same ol’, same ol’.

The blog needs a constant supply of new blood to keep it vital and chaotic. It needs the typo-riddled posts by Braves fans who can’t spell the players’ names. So what if it makes me want to punch a hole through a wall? That’s what makes the blog great! The blog thrives on the posts of stat-addled denizens who do not use their eyes to see the misdeeds done on the diamond by a certain second baseman! So what if I want to take a picture of Kelly Johnson booting his umpteenth ball and repeatedly punch it into their foreheads until they accept the truth? That’s what makes the blog great!

Don’t even get me started on Milton Bradley, but that’s what makes the blog great! I can be reduced to pulling my hair out because yet another person thinks Milton Bradley is the answer in left field even though the MAN HAS BEEN THE DH 75 TIMES OUT OF 100 GAMES FOR THE RANGERS THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE CAN’T EVEN STAY ON THE DAMN FIELD, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!! HE’S MISSED 28 GAMES THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!! DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, that’s what makes the blog great.

Roll the hole. Boom. Take that to the damn bank and cash it.

The End.

By NO MORE BOBBY

August 22, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

How is it not Bobby Cox’s fault that we are playing so horrible right now?

1. He should bench players that don’t hustle or make bonehead plays with their head not in the game. HE WONT DO THAT BECAUSE HE IS A PLAYERS MANAGER.
2. He continues to make horrible decisions with the bullpen. HE DID THIS EARLY IN THE YEAR AND I STILL THINK IT COST US 6 OR 7 GAMES IN THE STANDINGS.
3. The hitting is for crap and so is the pitching. LAST TIME I CHECKED THE MANAGER HAS SAY SO OVER THE COACHING STAFF.
4. We made a horrible trade for the new first baseman. BOBBY APPROVED OF THIS TRADE ONLY BECAUSE HE HAD A GREAT NICKNAME FOR KOCHMAN TO YELL FROM THE DUGOUT.
5. Cox can win with an all star / big name team but when the chips are down he cant make the same magic with what he is dealt with unlike say the Marlins or Rays managers.

LETS HOPE AND PRAY 2009 IS THE LAST YEAR OF BOBBY BALL IN ATLANTA!!!!!!

SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!

By DanR

August 22, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

thanks, Roman Gal.

By N8

August 22, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop

You’re my hero. Post of the night. Well done.

In reality, the least interesting thing on this blog, is the actual play of the Braves. It’s watching (reading) all the characters and internet personalities clash in text format.

We’ve got a blog-master that puts it out there to be dissected and talked about til the sun comes up (and sometimes continues until the sun goes back down).

These past few weeks, I couldn’t care less about the way the Braves play. I have a few reasons to check in on the games.

1) I want Chipper to win the batting title.

2) I want to watch JJJ, Morton and now Jo-Jo, to see what some of our future looks like.

3) Can’t wait for September call-ups, just in case there are some surprises (Jordan?) that come up.

But other than that, the ONLY reason I still come on the blog, is to watch the back and forth. More often than not, in the past couple of weeks, I’ve stayed out of the conversation, other than to chime in once in a while. But have been reading daily.

I absolutely LOVE that Shaun is STILL dissecting stats in a lost season. I would be lost and think I was on the wrong blog if Coach didn’t have some comment for me to take to the bank (along with catchy little phrase at the end of his name). It wouldn’t feel like I was alive, if BA, Moby and any of the other N8-H8r’s, weren’t ripping me for being stupid.

If I didn’t want any of the nonsense that goes with the blog, I’d read Terrance Moore’s column. But that would really make me crazy.

By Steve

August 22, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

DOB- Any hints as to whom the braves might target as free agents.

I hate to admit, but this team is kind of boring to watch. (Chipper going for the Batting Crown is about the only thing that keeps me tuned in.) Unless some moves are made, attendance will be off next year.

Let’s face it. The entire outfield’s production is pathetic.

Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine will all miss part or all of next season. It is a tribute to Roger McDowell that the cobbled together staff has done as well as it has.

By uga-brave

August 22, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

n8,

your weekend at bernies analogy was as fuuny as anything posted all season.

we will agree to disagree on #6.

i happen to think he is one of the few professionals left on this mess.

as bad as it gets, as bad as the apatehic talent he has to deal with, as bad as all the injuries have been, he still goes out there and has his player’s back.

he knows this team is lousy. he knows that some of these players are not going to be stars or at least servicable players.

what do you want him to do? he could go BOWA and throw all his players under the bus publically.

he could go showalter and try to micromanage everthing.

he could go bobby v. and tell everybody how smart he is and take credit for every success and blame his players for every failure.

come to think of it, i would not blame #6 at all if he showed up in valentine’s fake mustache and glasses and sat at the end of the bench.

By gotigers72

August 22, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

I gotta lay a lot of blame at the feet of Frank Wren for the play of this absolutely putrid team. Keeping players that should have never seen a major league field this year. Bennett and Corky are 2 FINE examples. Keeping a back up catcher hitting below .100 until August and a pitcher who walks so many hitters in crucial situations. Bringing up Brandon Jones instead of Josh Anderson.

He made 2 good trades before the season. Robbed Detroit for JJ and robbed the Cubs for Ohman and Infante, but made no moves during the season to improve any position. Letting Brayan Pena go and keeping Corky. Did that make any sense? Keeping JoJo up to get raked game after game. Didn’t get enough for Teixeira IMO. On and on.

Whoever was responsible for letting Chik-fil-A or whoever put that freakin’ cow up should be fired. That cow has put the hex on. The record is terrible since that mooove was made. Udderly ridiculous.

DOB - Excellent choice in music for today’s blog. My favorite Stones’ song. “I was ‘round when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain “. “When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank”. What lyrics. They just don’t get any finer than that. Someone made a documentary of Mick and Keith writing that song. I hope I’ll run across it some time with all of the music channels that I have.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Steve: agreed.

By Braveheart

August 22, 2008 1:37 AM | Link to this

What about Joe Simpson for manager?

Really? Why? Because he thinks that hitting the ball the other way is the answer to everything? I swear sometimes that I am so glad that Milo called Hank’s homer…. If it had been Joe, he would have been giving Hank a hard time because he pulled the ball.

The easiest team to defend against would be a Joe Simpson managed team …………. You’d never play any hitter to pull the ball and you’d always leave a man shallow for the bunt ………. and then with Chip Caray as his bench coach, you’d just let men get on base because Chip would have them running wild right into outs at second base ……….

It’s like a Rain Man routine with Chip and Joe these days …… opposite field, yeah, speed, yeah, maple bats, yeah, opposite field, yeah, speed is making a comeback, yeah, need to adjust for speed coming back, yeah, opposite field, yeah, someone is going to die with maple bats, yeah, opposite field, yeah, the game is all about speed these days, yeah, opposite field, yeah, go cubs go, yeah, opposite field, yeah, maple bats, yeah, david wright stole the gold glove, yeah, maple bats, yeah, opposite field, yeah, speed, yeah, david wright showing you why he is a gold glover, yeah, opposite field, yeah, maple bats, yeah, speed, yeah

Fellas, the maple bats, the speed is making a comeback and the opposite field angles have been beaten to freaking death .,….. please find a new topic already please.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop, that 1:02 post made me smile after a tedious return trip from Shea. Well, that post and a slice of cheese pizza from Ray’s Famous.

By uga-brave

August 22, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

chop chop,

i concur good stuff.

for me, drinking a couple of buds, reading and responding to the blog makes watching this mess tolerable.

i never claimed to be a wordsmith like some of the predecessors. i just like watching baseball and busting frenchy’s chops.

By I Knew Bobby Cox was an Idiot in the 90's

August 22, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

I swear I did

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

bfan54, you’re not going to get a bunch of dash of optimism and whatever the hell else you said I’d give you about next season. This team’s got to make serious moves to contend next year, in my opinion more moves than Frank indicated at the trade deadline.

I think to have a real good shot at winning the division next year they need to get a couple of solid starting pitchers, at least one and preferably two corner outfielders, a lefty reliever (Ohman or another) and upgrade at either 2B or 1B (and since it seems unlikely that Wren wouldn’t bring back Kotchman for 1B….)

And I’m thinking they can go with what they have in CF, either Schafer or, if for some reason he’s not ready, some combo of Anderson/Blanco and perhaps Kotsay, though Kotsay’s already said it’s doubtful he’d come back if not in an every-day role.

I do like Braves’ future, though, beyond next season. I’m talking about when the Heywards, Freemans, Hansons, Medlins, Rohrbaughs and others are starting to arrive. Add a veteran leader along the way and you’ve got something.

They really are missing leadership right now, though. They used to have a bunch of guys who all were on same page and respected the game, the team and each other and played hard and right all the time. Cox could let the veterans run the clubhouse and keep things going. Not now.

I’m not seeing that these days.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

Commentator Rick Sutcliffe: Thanks. Glad to know it’s not just me that finds that ongoing bit painfully unfunny.

By uga-brave

August 22, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

dob,

as a fellow runner i think legat runs the 5000 today. i was shocked he missed the finals in the 1500.

what do you think his chances are?

By N8

August 22, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this

People, sometimes one has to read between DOB’s lines, to find his true thoughts. He doesn’t always mention names. Case in point:

“I think to have a real good shot at winning the division next year they need to get a couple of solid starting pitchers, at least one and preferably two corner outfielders…”

IE: DOB is pretty much on par with the denizens….Francouer might as well resume his career elsewhere. That’s not to say that I (or DOB for that matter), think Jeff’s career can’t be salvaged. But it’s gonna be very hard for him to turn it around in Atlanta, IMO.

uga

As I’ve said many times. I don’t despise #6. I think he has earned to CHOOSE when he’s done. But I’m ready for change. Even if said change means a couple of years of bad baseball.

This core IS NOT of the same mold of the Glavine’s, Avery’s, Smoltz’, Chipper, Gant, Justice, etc…

Just not the same level of ability, not to mention the baseball smarts to keep their heads in the game.

But I respect people that like Cox. To each his own. What I don’t respect, are people that can’t possibly understand why somebody might NOT like Cox, or would rather have a different “leader” in the club-house. To say that you really like The Beatles, doesn’t mean that you think the Rolling Stones suck.

Maybe the next guy in charge has a very tough time of it. Maybe not. But the past three seasons have NOT been #6’s finest hours as a manager. NOBODY can deny that.

By Glep

August 22, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

I am so thankful there are only 34 miserable games to go to this nightmare season. ( To think they actually pay these guys too smell up the city of Atlanta). I see the Braves winning maybe 6 or 7 of those remaining games.(They are winning about one a week now). And the sad thing is if the Braves don’t face up to their mistakes then we’ll see a few more years of this misery. It’s admirable to cover for a player who has had a bad day, but when that day turns into an entire season then it’s time to bench’em and send them to the farm where they can learn to play the game. Management is responsible for the roster folks. It is Wren and Cox who make the decision on who is and isn’t on it. The choices this year where apparently made while on a drinking benge or something. They have players braking records in the minors while they play the likes of what we have seen this year in Atlanta. This is a mess and it is not going away any time soon. At least Gwinnett can soon boast of a professional team. Atlanta sure can’t.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 2:38 AM | Link to this

uga-brave, like you I was shocked to see him run poorly not once, but twice in the 1,500 (barely made it out of first round).

I don’t think he’s at full strength, and thus I’m not expecting too much in 5,000.

By Metropolitan Man

August 22, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

Now that the favor has been returned in a “sweeping” fashion, the braves can go about their business of getting to .500 while the METS try to make the playoffs. Don’t worry the teams will see each other again with the braves still having a chance to spoil some teams dreams of the postseason. I just like the way the METS are playing, scoring early, great starting pitching, cohesion as a team, and Jerry Manuel (interm manager) being as creative as possible dealing with a mended bullpen while playing without a starting pitcher all season (EL Whats his name), 2 missing staring outfielders (Alou, Church), 2 catchers missing early action (Snieder, Castro), no regular second baseman (Castillo is a joke thats why he isnt here), and rabid fans who write and call for the bullpens head 4-5 times a week. Now the closer is gone but after all these changes one thing came out of it, SUCCESS….so far. There is no blueprint for this, just guts trying to attain glory. I dont feel sorry for the braves, they were on top long enough. I do wish they were competitive so you can gauge how good the team you support really is. Well get your “rebuilding on”, hope it doenst take too long because before you know it this division could end up being a 4 team race to the end….where will the braves fit in? Somebody tell Chumper no one will be angry if he was traded to another team. If the game is not fun at this stage when you arleady have made your millions, why not try to have fun eslewhere and go out with a bang instead of a whimper. Now time to repay Houston for their sweep earlier in the year and make their weekend similar to the braves week.

LETS GO METS!

By Tom Intown

August 22, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren should be embarassed. He really ought to be fired, but that’s not “the Braves’ way.” Bobby Cox should not have to go to “battle” with this team. Injuries, yes. But everyone has injuries. Wren did nothing in the off-season to add offense. Kotsay is limited. Infante, Blanco, Norton, Diaz - the four of them totalled don’t amount to anything offensively. Meanwhile, this season, what has he done? Kotchmann is going to be a bust - meaning we got nothing for Tex. He will never put up similar numbers and for a team struggling to score (even w/Tex) Casey K (as in whiff) is a disaster. We gave up one of the game’s great cleanup hitters for a guy struggling in the 7 hole. Nice job, Frank. Start working now: we need a 2B (Kelly Johnson is an upgrade only from Pete Orr). We need a solid defensive backup catcher with a little bat or McCann’s career will be over in 2 years. We need a power-hitting left-fielder. We need a new hitting-coach. Alas, the last 6 weeks will be a disaster amid empty seats. This is not “the Braves’ way” in September.

By chipdip

August 22, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this

BOBBY COX NEEDS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALONG WITH MCDOWELL AND TP AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By IGivUp

August 22, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this

Pass out the paper bags for the upcoming home stand. Anyone dumb enough to buy a ticket will need one to cover their heads so that their neighbors will not see them at the game and think less of them. The only goal left for this season is 100 losses.

By BravesFan79

August 22, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this

Funny… if Cox wanted proven veterans in the clubhouse then WTF was he thinking in choosing Corky over Javy Lopez?? At least Javy would of given us a few pinchit HR’s!
And then to let Pena go just doubled the stupidity.

What does that prove to the clubhouse that youll keep around a guy hitting .150 or so for almost the whole year?? Woodward, Orr, Corky, Thorman….no wonder the team quit on Cox. Now i give it the payroll isnt his fault, and neither is the badluck. But we all know Bobby Cox the past 2 seasons has GIVEN away more games than we can count.

I cant believe we STILL havent broken that streak of one run losses on the road….anyone wanna argue with me NOW about how important a strong bench is!?

Im all in favor of keeping Cox as manager and head cheerleader for the next 20 years for all i care…. i just wanna see someone else in control of the Bullpen and player personel!!

By BravesFan79

August 22, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

ITS ALL THE F*** COWS FAULT!!!

By BL

August 22, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

What’s that sound?….Oh, it’s everyone still jumping on that Infante bandwagon? Throwing and catching are baseball fundamentals. Him and Kelly should room together on the road.

By Couch Tater

August 22, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Uga-brave & Chop Chop

Ditto your 12:37 & 1:02.

ncscoots

Look at the bright side,unlike talk-radio at least you don’t have to listen to the rants. The folks here can reed an right.(Now, how about some blueberry pancakes for breakfast?)

By Dosomething

August 22, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Whoever made the decision not to put Gonzo in for the 9th inning needs to go. Even if he is hurt he is better than what came in. Omar would not have had the chance to not catch the ball because there would have been strikeouts!!!!!!!!

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

JC Bradbury posted a clarification of some things from his post about rebuilding the Braves.

By ben

August 22, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Keep the brooms out because we’re headed to St. Louis. This team will find a way to loose when the game is close. How many in a row now for one run loses? A shake up at the top is needed to turn this organization in the right direction.

By ben

August 22, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Keep the brooms out because we’re headed to St. Louis. This team will find a way to loose when the game is close. How many in a row now for one run loses? A shake up at the top is needed to turn this organization in the right direction.

By LOST-BRAVE

August 22, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

DOB-after last nite’s game,it just support’s what i’v been saying that this team is at or near the bottom of m.l.b. in fielding%.WHOSE FAULT IS THIS YOU MAY ASK? IT’S THE MANAGERS FOR NOT HAVING HIS COACHES WORK ON THIS IN SPRING-TRANING! and this team of braves are also AT OR NEAR THE BOTTOM OF M.L.B.IN BATTING AVG. WHOSE FAULT IS THIS YOU MAY ASK? IT’S THE HITTING COACHES, MR. T.P.AND THEY ARE JUST AWFUL WITH R.I.S.P. as for the PITCHING STAFF I CANNOT PUT ALL OF THE BLAME ON THE MANAGER PART OF IT IS ON THE BRAVES MANAGEMENT!BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SENIOR CITIZENS THAT MAKE UP 3/5th’s OF YOUR STARTING STAFF DO YOU NOT USE COMMEN SINCE WITH THESE GUY’S?.SORRY MAN BUT THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.I DO HAVE 1 QUESTION FOR YOU, CAN THE BRAVES NOT DEVELOPE JUST 1 QUALITY RELIEF-PITCHER? THEY HAVE NOT DONE SO YET? D.O.B.YOU AND I HAVE HAD A LOT OF FUN TEASING EACHOTHER BUT WHEN THE PLAYERS GIVE UP ON THE SEASON BEFORE JULY IS OVER AND IT SEEMS SO HAS THE MANAGER AND MANAGEMENT, JUST HOW DO THEY AND YOU AS THE BEAT WRITER EXSPECT THE FANS TO NOT FEEL CHEATED OUT OF A WHOLE SEASON? GOTTA BE HARD ON YOU AS WELL MAN.

By Eware

August 22, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, I think it’s time for a little M. Ward on the blog. Since you mentioned him more than a year ago, I can’t stop listening to his catalog.

I’m thinking “Magic Trick”, where the girl in the song is a euphemism for the Braves bats…

“It’s like, now you see her, now you don’t You think you’re gonna get to know her now, well you won’t”

That about sums it up…

By BL

August 22, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Just for the record, Frenchy has NO MORE to do with the what has happened in the last 2 weeks than ANY other Brave. Previous games, there is an argument.

I guess there are just no more starters healthy that the bloggers can take there anger out on.

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

BravesFan79, how are you so sure Bobby Cox is responsible for the one-run road losses? From 1991-2005, the Braves had the second-best record in baseball in one-run road games.

The thing is eventually this had to happen. The Braves weren’t going to go on contending forever. No team can sustain success for longer than the Braves did from 1991-2005. Players are going to age, the team is going to get less lucky with young players, they aren’t going to draft as high, they are likely to start to run out of money (relatively speaking of course) and not spend on as many big-time free agents. In the statistical world, it’s regression to the mean. I think that’s what we’re seeing here.

By Couch Tater

August 22, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

DOB I’ve been holding this in since April. The coolest four guys to play Shea had to be the Rolling Stones. At a time when the Beatles were all over the charts you were cool if you were a Stones fan. But, the Who’s to argue? It may be a train in vain.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Rough game last night. I have to agree with DOB’s 1:50AM post. I see no leadership right now. It’s unfortunate to see this happen to them.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 22, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

“And likes lambs to the slaughter…”

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

I was Swept Away…

Without a warning…

Like night when the morning begins the day…

I…was…Swept…A-way…

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

I really can’t imagine Frank Wren trading away players like Chipper, Kelly, Kotchman, etc. Not while BC is around. Even if he wasn’t here, they won’t do it. They believe they can contend next year, which I disagree with. Just too many things need to go their way. I don’t think they need upgrades at both corner OF spots and 2nd base. But they definetly need a slugger out in LF and a couple of starting pitchers. Blanco/Anderson/Schafer or Kotsay would do just fine in CF. Even if all this occurs, I’m just not so sure they would be better than the Mets or Phillies.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

This really sucks. Not as much as Snipper, but it’s damn well getting close to him.

I’m with BravesFan79-Blow up the Freaking cow. Put the Teepee back. Lord knows there’s enough room-no one will be attending games, apparently.

Let’s get Nathan to manage the team next year. Maybe have him play right field. Can he bunt?

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

DOB, I appreciated your thoughts at 1:50 AM.

Interesting.

By flange1

August 22, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Morning All,

Well, I guess it is good to get out of NY without any more injuries…(Had to try to come with something positive).

Scoots,

I must say that I agree with your late night post. The blog is much less friendly than it used to be. The topics don’t vary like they used to.

The same folks keep saying the same things over and over again in the hopes that repetitions will give them better credibility.

Folks now don’t take the time to read the blog and get caught up on what is going on they just rapid fire type their single thought posts.

There are still breathes of fresh air, but it is not as fun as it was.

But the Braves are playing worse than I want to remember and I think people are frustrated and upset over the lack of leadership and the lack of drive.

I agree with N8 that a lot of these fans have known nothing but winning and they have never seen the team play like this and never seen the team lose.

But still the venom and vinegar that gets run out on the blog day in and day gets a bit old.

But, the world keeps turning and hopefully the team will start to play better, Frank Wren will have another GREAT off season, and the blog mood will mellow.

Maybe some of us old timers need to start bring up more conversations about music, BBQ and the MIB.

Heck, we haven’t heard about HAM SANDWICHES in a long time!

I saw a young denizen talk about the HUMANITY last night, didn’t realize she had been around long enough to remember that one….

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun

No one is “sure” that Bobby Cox is responsible for the one-run losses; however, to use your logic from 2 week-ends ago:

Just as Orlando Hudson is not necessarily the same defender as he was in his prime (3-4 years ago); Bobby Cox is not necessarily the same manager he was between 1991-2005.

I realize that there is a difference between physical play and mental capacity; in fact, most people get smarter/wiser for many years after their physical ability begins to diminish. Nonetheless, for most, mental capacity begins to diminsish at some point.

Take that possibility, combined with less solid, veteran talent, combined with the fact that the 2 other “weakest” teams in his own division are now managed by former coaches of his, and you can see why Bobby Cox may no longer be as successful at managing in close games as he was between 1991-2005.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

And I do think the Braves should consider drafting college bats in 2009. HS players are too big of a crapshoot and the Braves need some talent that will be ready 2011 and beyond. You can’t get that by drafting a high school player from Georgia. Even 2007 draftee Jason Heyward won’t be ready until 2010. And he was a rarity, in terms of high school players.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

“Right in the lights,” Cox said. “Double play, we’d get Wright at second, too. He had taken off, he was halfway home. Can’t fault [Infante], I mean, if the ball gets in the lights, you can’t see it.”

So, in other words, Infante was BLINDED BY THE LIGHT!

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

flange1—

I haven’t. This blog was actually the first place I’d ever heard it/read it.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

On a side note, it seems like Kelly Johnson is absolutely destined to be traded this offseason. If so, I hope he brings back a return of equal or greater value. It’s a shame if they don’t. I am a huge Kelly Johnson fan, but he did scare me with his lack of range at second this Mets series. I don’t think Prado is that much better, but it was a bit alarming to see so many ground balls get by the guy.

By BL

August 22, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man, SNIPER, And All Other Mets Fans

I just got a call from Selig and the gang at the MLB office…There appears to be a hidden rule in the MLB books…

After your team commits one of the worst late season collapses in SPORTS history and you are still losing the season series (7-5) this year against what the Braves are putting out there…

THERE IS A 1 YEAR BAN ON ALL S..T TALKING

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

brent a., I suppose it’s possible. I definitely agree that people obviously become less sharp with age. But I don’t think we can be certain that any problems are a result of Bobby Cox as much as or more than the result of the players.

It may be 100 percent correct that Cox has lost it so much that he’s hurting the Braves relative to a different manager they could have. Who knows? I’d say it’s impossible, at least at this point, to have any idea if and by how much Cox is costing the Braves. So, I think the Braves are correct to look at his entire career track record and continue to employ him until it is obvious that he is costing the Braves or obvious that he can’t physically or mentally do the job or it becomes obvious most of the players don’t want him around.

It’s not like with a player where you can look at certain statistics and say with clarity that a player has lost it and is worse than a replacement. With managers we can do all the assuming we want but there is just no way to quantify what they are worth or not worth to a team. You have to trust what they’ve done with good teams and what the players say and maybe do some objective evaluations that aren’t directly related to baseball (maybe come up with some sort of test to determine if he still has the mental capacities you’d want from someone trying to run a team).

By DAP

August 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

i dont really think trading kotchman, kelly, chipper and others is what this team needs to do to get better. if think what this team needs more than anything is a clean slate. a new season would likley help alot, right off the bat.

i wouldnt say that this team is a couple of moves from being world series winners, but they are a couple of good moves away from contending again. i really feel that way. there are pitchers out there to be had…relievers and starters. there are a few bats out there wirth having. there is also quite a bit of money to pull from, and we also have some young talent who might be almost ready.

By Chipper J

August 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Gotta say, I slept like a baby last night. Mets sweep, Phillies and Marlins lose and the Yanks get absolutely rocked.

But nothing was sweeter than DOB giving David Wright his props on his way out of town. I’m starting to think Vitamin Water actually got a bargain on this kid.

By Renegator

August 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Lew

Thanks for the response yesterday. I know I have been negative this year but there really has been so little to be positive about.

By flange1

August 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Efrim,

I agree with you at 10:33. While this has not been KJ’s best year, his defense the last week has been amazingly bad. Almost like he is hurt or sick. He seems to be moving in slow motion.

By Chipper J

August 22, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Efrim

Not sure if you watched the NY feed last night but they were pretty critical of Johnson’s lack of range as well. He doesn’t square up on anything to his left or right. He take everything side saddle which is very limiting. I don’t see him as much as you but he doesn’t look natural at second.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Efrim-Got to agree with you on a couple of points, Dude. First, they won’t be in a position to contend next yer-Too many holes to fill with whoever may be available and most of our Minor League pieces will be more help for 2010 than in 09.

Second-I have always liked Kelly Johnson and have been a supporter of his. However, his range at second, is indeed severely lacking. Not too sure what we might get in return for him, especially coming off of a less than exemplary offensive season. If pitching is available without him as trade bait, then move him to left field (where he will be less of a defensive liability ) and worry about the outfield in 2010 when Schafer and Heyward may well be ready (we should also have a better view of whether or not Frenchy’s season was a fluke or not).

Then we need to find a defensive wizard to play second. This infield defense (or lack thereof) is hurting badly.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

BTW- Chipper J was me from some fun I was having with Roman Gal.

Sorry, forgot to change it back.

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I think there will be a lot of players on the trading block this offseason. The Braves have a lot of pieces that may bring good returns and are expendable. Kelly Johnson is one of them. I think Brandon Jones and Gregor Blanco could be. The advantage is the Braves don’t have to trade them—they are still good enough and young enough to help the Braves when they are ready to contend—so they have some leverage.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Couch Tater, none cooler than Strummer and Co. But Mick and Keef and Co. right up there.

Gotta get on this plane to St. Louis. It’s a cigar-tube commuter flight, so if you don’t hear from me in a few hours, send out a search party.

By MGL

August 22, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Bring back Corky - Since he left, we are 6 and 20.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Lew

Then we need to find a defensive wizard to play second. This infield defense (or lack thereof) is hurting badly.

I’m pretty sure the Mets would gladly send you Luis Castillo. Only 3 years for $18 mil left on his deal. He could slide right into Hamptons hardly used locker.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Chipper J(Anders)

Yup I watched SNY last night. Kelly looked bad, I can’t disagree. And by the way, Keith Hernandez is hilarious. The Cohen/Darling/Hernandez trio is excellent and one of the best in baseball.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lew

You make some really good points. I agree that 2009 isn’t going to happen for this team. My worry is that they trade some of those prospects for help next year. Obviously not the Heyward/Schafer/Teheran/Hanson/Freeman group, but others. I just think they should take a step back from trading any of them. I know they need to upgrade the team, but maybe we should try and evaluate what we already have first? I might be rambling a bit here. Frustration dude.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Come on. What the Braves need is not going to come back in a trade for Kelly Johnson, Greg Blanco or Brandon Jones. You’re deluded if you think other teams will give you valuable players for spare parts on a team that possibly won’t win 70 games.

You’ve got to stop thinking this is the 14 year title team that needs some tinkering each year and off you go. This team needs to completely rebuild starting by trading whatever truly valuable pieces you have that will lose value before the Braves contend again (Chipper) for longer term value.

The death knell to this team for next year was Hudson’s injury. Losing a top of the rotation guy like that just crushes a staff. Now every guy behind him will be asked to step up and take a role he’s either not ready for or not capable of. This is exactly what the Mets went through when they got Glavine. Not that he got hurt but that he wasn’t the top of the rotation guy they thought he would be and it affected the rest of the staff as well as him. That’s why they went out and got Pedro in 2005. To take that pressure off Glavine. Glavine was 20 - 28 before Pedro and 41 - 28 after Pedro joined the Mets.

This is part of the leadership thing DOB was alluding to last night. It’s not all about stats.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

kelly has not only been playing poorly, but he looks down as well. i think he is mentally a little troubled. the team underperforming, him personally underperforming, the thought that he might be trade bait, maybe has gotten to him. i hate to see the guy down like that…he really looks sad alot.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I agree, they definetly have leverage. Kelly is an above average offensive second baseman. He might be a slightly below average defender, but with three years to go until free agency, he should be very attractive to several organizations.

I was thinking about Oakland as a possible destination for Kelly, he seems like a Billy Beane type player. But then I remembered that they acquired Adian Cardenas and Eric Patterson in trades. And of course they drafted Jemile Weeks. Anyway, Kelly to Oakland for some of their young pitching would of been nice.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

anders Come on. What the Braves need is not going to come back in a trade for Kelly Johnson, Greg Blanco or Brandon Jones.

that depends on what you think this team needs. what do you think it needs, anders?

to me, there is only 2 things to do, and only 1 thing that really makes sense.

1, you can trade everybody. kelly, chipper, gonzalez, infante, ect, and get prospects that you hope will help you in a few years. to me, this doesnt make much sense, because we have so many prospects that he expect to come up in the next couple of years. why do we need more? we wont be able to do anything with them.

2, (and this is the one that makes sense to me) you can keep your team together. maybe trade a guyhere or there, but you try to improve your CURRENT team. upgrade defense at 2nd if you think you need to, upgrade the outfield offense, get some pitching, and do what you can do. maybe we will get lighting in a bottle and win, maybe we will be in it till the end.

the point is, the future is bright for the braves without any more prospects. also, there is plenty of money to spend. should we just sit on it? as paul would say: by no means! spend the money, and lets see if we can win some games.

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Anders

I don’t think Shaun is talking about remaking the franchise with the return from Kelly Johnson. Just saying that the return will be valuable because Johnson is a valuable asset in his own right.

By MGL

August 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

“The Cohen/Darling/Hernandez trio is excellent and one of the best in baseball.”

Sorry Efrim, I usually don’t disagree with you, but I do on this one. Their incessant babbling on and on about how great the Met’s players were, especially the Wright one was sickening. Plus there game coverage was one of the worst I have seen, with the constant shifting to other topics. A couple of days ago, The entire second inning was missed due to an interview with some guy up in the stands and the entire third inning was missed due to an interview with Minaya.

Just not good coverage at all, nevermind the relatively constant bashing of Braves players and their glee at every mistake. Not classy at all in my book.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Efrim

I think SNY does a great job. The recognize that baseball is a very repetitive game that can drag at times so they do stuff to keep your interest. Like last night when Darling and Hernandez broadcast from seats right behind home plate. They just decided during the game to do that. It’s great to hear their take on this different perspective. And these are guys who played pretty good MLB ball yet even they say you forget how fast the game is or how hard they throw etc.

SNY actually put the whole broadcast team in the upper deck for a game. It was really cool for the fans up there. Hernandez had never watched a game from there and was alarmed at how far it is.

During blowout games they take live calls on the air to answer. They’re screened and pretty benign calls but I think in time they’ll perfect it and make them a bit racier.

They also interview the starter right after he leaves the game a lot which is something they started and even the networks (Peter Gammons) now do.

Most importantly, Hernandez is very critical of even the Mets which I love. He doesn’t pull any punches which almost led to some punches between him and Reyes on a charter flight earlier this year. He can be aloof but that’s what he is.

Speaking of aloof, did you see Tom Seaver in the booth last night too? While he is baseball royalty it would be nice if he acted like he didn’t know it once in a while.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

DOB-My wife and I had a Dave O’Brien/MIB moment last weekend. We went to Montpelier (the smallest State Capitol in the U.S) and stopped in at a strange little coffee shop.

Now you have to realize that Vermont is NOT your normal type of place-a weird combination of Old Hippies, Strange Yuppies and staid old Vermontahs. This coffee shop is not much different in that regard-quite eclectic.

When we got there, there was an old man with a long white beard in Bib Overalls (and red suspenders-go figure) playing acoustic guitar and fiddle while his wife (one assumes that’s who the gray haired Lady was) played banjo and dulcimer. The covered a bunch of Eddie Albert and some other North Carolinian songwriters (I forget who exactly-does the name Staller or Stellar mean anything to you?) for whatever customers would place in their tip jar.

We immediately thought of you and the MIB blog, so in the Blog’s honor we had coffee and pie. Definitely a cultural experience you would have enjoyed. We left them a nice tip.

Rene-No problem, like Efrim also says, Frustrating is the word of the day. It’s real hard for even a Homer like me to stay positive.

Anders-That’s all right-you can keep Castillo. The last thing we need is more injured players. I don’t want to own the DL-leasing it this season has been more than enough, Thank You.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

DAP

that depends on what you think this team needs. what do you think it needs, anders?

A top of the rotation horse to replace Hudson. Then go from there.

I’d agree they actually will have money to spend this off season but I expect they will be outbid for what’s available. So you have to offer what other teams can’t, a switch hitting .300 plus run producing guy with power who can still field but would be more productive with some DH time. Especially if that guy will be on his last legs by the time the Braves are ready to contend again which at best will be 2010 (even Lew is writing off 2009 already) but more likely 2011.

If your plan is to “catch lightning in a bottle” well I hope your well grounded because if it misses the bottle you’re gonna get scorched.

By raindawg722

August 22, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

For a bit of perspective on this nightmarish season, check out the byline on this Pittsburgh Pirates blog:

http://www.maroonedonfedst.com/

By Efrim

August 22, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

MGL

I have to respectfully disagree. I really think that Darling/Cohen and especially Keith, respect the Braves franchise and players. They really think the world of Bobby Cox, Chipper, etc. Last night may have been a bit difficult to be praising the Braves play. It hasn’t been good this year. If you watch Mets broadcasts, you realize that they bash their own players, often. Both Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling are VERY critical of the team. To the extent that Reyes and Keith got in a shouting match this season. All that being said, they knock Frency’s approach too much, but a lot of people do.

In terms of the coverage. It could definetly be better. But not many broadcasts are very good these days. Little to none.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Anders-Dude, don’t go getting all warm and fuzzy over the Braves’ demise. We are not as destitute, either financially OR with our own prospects as you might seem to think (wishful thinking on your part, IMO).

However, keep in mind a couple of things-first, Y’all ain’t won anything yet. I would be willing to bet that with the sparseness of your bullpen and Billy Wagner out for who knows how long, not to mention you have a couple rookies probably playing over their heads, that The Mets could easily pull an 07-like flop before all is said and done. Woe be unto the Mets’ Nation if the dysfunctional Phillies ever get their excrement together offensively.

As for next season-don’t the Mets lose Pedro, Perez, Wagner and a few others? Y’all will have plenty of holes of your own to fill without y’all worrying about how we do in the offseason. You’d better hope those rookies still produce after the NL pitchers have their number.

The Braves may not be contenders this year, or even next, but I wouldn’t count on the Mets having an easy road to travel themselves. Smugness will not make up for your own inadequacies. Believe me, you have more than you or Snipper are likely to admit to. Enjoy your run- While and IF it lasts. I wouldn’t put any money down on your ability to bring it to fruition-even without Glavine.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

anders If your plan is to “catch lightning in a bottle” well I hope your well grounded because if it misses the bottle you’re gonna get scorched

i dont have a plan, because its not my job to come up with one. i just dont think it makes sense to give up on 09 and maybe 10 as well. there is nothing to gain from trading chipper.

if we are giving up on ‘09, theres not as much need to replace hudson, because he will be back by 2010! (that is hudson’s last contract year. a mutual option that im sure both parties will exercise.)

so instead, lets sign a #3 like perez or dempster, or even a guy like garland for 3 or 4 years, keep working jair into the #1 it looks like he is, and we are all expecting hanson, medlin, and more to be ready by 2010…so whats the point in trading chipper? it wont do anything but make braves fans mourn for his loss.

the braves should spend thier money and try to field a competitive team in’09(and more), because our farm system is going to do alot to take care of 2010 and beyond.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

BTW- You guys better start rooting for the Yanks if you expect to play in the FA market. If they keep falling like they have been Hankenstein is going to buy every FA out there.

They are getting hammered here in NY and should the Mets have playoff games in Shea’s last year while Yankee Stadium dies a quiet death in solitude it will be too much for Hank to take. Especially if the Red Sox are in and god forbid win it all again!

I’m sure Scott Boras lays awake at night thinking about such things.

That said, what would you guys offer Boras for Oliver Perez?

By flange1

August 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Hey,

Lets talk about something fun!

WHo should the Braves call up in September?

I think the first thing we should do is check out the 40 man roster. Guys that aren’t on it probably won’t be called up.

I am sure we will see Anderson, B Jones and Lillibridge.

Maybe Lerew and Ridgeway.

Anyone think we might see a 40 man roster move and then see Schafer?

How about Hanson?

Thoughts?

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Is that coffee shop the one downtown, across from the electronics shop?

To me, that was the biggest oddity in Vermont, the downtown electronics store.

That’s a great downtown.

By braves70

August 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Sadly, Bobby Cox reminds me of the final days of once great manager, Connie Mack. From a discussion of Mack’s final days:

By the late 1940s, Mack, born during the Civil War, * had started to drift mentally*, and increasingly relied on coaches like the former A’s star Al Simmons to cover for him.

As Bob Considine wrote in a 1948 profile of the man once known as the Tall Tactician:

When he signals for an obviously wrong move these days, Al Simmons turns his back a bit sadly on the old man, as if he did not detect the signal, and calls for the right move. But this never fools Mick Mack. When Al comes back to the bench at the end of the inning, Mr. Mack usually speaks up. “You used better judgment than I did, Al,” he will say quietly, and then go about his timeless task of wagging his scorecard at the fielders.

Maybe TP or Hubby should assume the role of Al Simmons for the Braves.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Lew

Fair enough, certainly feeling my oats today. But I never said the Mets were a lock. I still don’t think they are. The Phillies have three major advantages. 1.) Last years collapse. That doesn’t go away until the Mets can make the playoffs. 2.) The Phillies huge comeback in game 1 of the last series the two teams played. I said it then and I’ll say it now. The Phillies are in the Mets head to stay until The Mets finish ahead of them. 3.) Wagner being out. It is funny how when he isn’t hurt that most on here call him over rated and a choker etc, but now that he’s out it’s considered a huge loss to the Mets. Anyway, I do believe it will be tough to keep winning without him. I think it can be done but it’s going to take a huge effort by the rest of the staff because there’s no help coming at this late date.

As for the Braves being destitute, never said that. What they are is frugal. They’re gonna have to overpay if they want to land a big fish or two. I’ll believe it when I see it. As for prospects, that’s very subjective area where I never claimed to have any expertise. I was told on here by you and others the Mets had none - yet they landed Santana. I was also told they had nothing left after that yet they’ve played all year without their starting corner outfielders and starting second baseman and are still in first. Not saying thee guys filling in are all MLB keepers but apparently there was enough depth there to get them to this point. Plus they still haven’t touched Fernando Martinez who is their highest rated prospect.

Now that DOB has seen the light on Wright can Minaya be far behind?

As for next year, they won’t sign Pedro, they’ll try on Perez but won’t give him the moon and who knows on Wagner based on his elbow. They do have Kunz as the future closer.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

flange1 i would like to see shafer, but i dont think we will.

i bet jones and anderson, like you said, maybe diory hernandez, who is having a good year at AAA. as far as pitchers, lerew should be brought up and given some starts…in fact, maybe they should shut down jair. anyways…the guys i want to see the most are shafer and anderson.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

N8,

Last night you forgot to mention one other reason to still care about this season — to see if Heap can break the NL record for doubles by a catcher. He needs 11 more to beat Terry Kennedy. A long shot, but it could happen. (You’re welcome, McFann.)

By flange1

August 22, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Anders,

I know you are happy that your team just swept the Braves and are in first place.

But you have to realize that a lot of Braves fan don’t really care what is going on in Mets camp and don’t care to talk Mets at all.

You keep bringing up Santana like Omar went out and got him by trumping everyone with his superior minor league talent and his powerful deal making skills.

That is not the way that I read it went down! Because the Twins took so long to pull the trigger, The Yanks and the Sox both lost interest, had other more productive oars in the water, or were tired of the deal and basically backed away.

Omar’s deal was the last deal standing and he kind of “fell into the deal” (a phrase I have read in multiple publications)

Now you can pound your chest and talk all day about Santana to the Mets and how great Omar is, but I don’t see it that way (from reading other’s versions of the deal)

In terms of O Perez, I don’t see the Braves having interest. He is a Boras guy and is bound to ask for at least what Carlos Silva received from the Mariners which is 4 years $48 million.

It would not surprise me to see Boras ask for 5 years $75 million.

I don’t see Omar biting into that either. I see O Perez in Texas next year.

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

One more reason to care about this season:

Joe Simpson’s wild mood swings.

He goes from talking Jeff Francoeur through what he calls a “good AB” to ripping him after trying to talk him through a bad one. I don’t think Joe remembers how to call games for a bad team (lighten up, have a little fun, don’t be too much of a homer, give credit to the other team, etc.). He hasn’t called one since he did Mariners games late last century.

By Lee in S GA

August 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

You guys better start rooting for the Yanks if you expect to play in the FA market. If they keep falling like they have been Hankenstein is going to buy every FA out there. Anders

Just as soon the Braves take their chances with the F A market w/o pulling for the Yanks. The only satisfaction I can get this season is for the Rays to win the W.S. It will be worth it just to see the Yankees and Red Sox fans heartbroken. Needless to say the Mets’ fans also.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies—

Thanks! Just one thing; I hate to be picky, but…

Pudge Rodriguez hit 45 doubles as a catcher in 1996 (2 as a DH, so 47 overall).

(Actually, Terry Kennedy hit 40 of his 42 doubles in 1982 as a catcher, and 2 as a 1B. Was that an Aflac Trivia Q that said Kennedy held the record?)

But yeah, Neight, how could you forget that?

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Come on. What the Braves need is not going to come back in a trade for Kelly Johnson, Greg Blanco or Brandon Jones. You’re deluded if you think other teams will give you valuable players for spare parts on a team that possibly won’t win 70 games.

You’ve got to stop thinking this is the 14 year title team that needs some tinkering each year and off you go.

Anders, Efrim is right, I’m not talking about trading Johnson, Blanco or Jones to tinker and turn the team into a great one.

No, the Braves wouldn’t be able to trade any of these players for a great major league starting pitcher or a great corner outfielder. But they may be able to trade one or all of them for very good players who are in the minors that could possible contribute in some sort of significant way in the majors in 2-3 years.

By Jersey Gil

August 22, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Lew Dude i been having a blast from the Past this days with the Braves, but i still Positive, We are going in Labor Days Weekend to Dc to see the Braves/Nat play in Aug 31, and stay in to see the Phillis the Next day, also we have the three days of the next visit of the Braves here in Philadelphia. Back to the 70’s-80s type of season ahh, but i still A Braves Fan. All of this negative comment i been see it lately in the blog are not really from bonafide Braves fan, we been thru a lot this year. The next thin can happen is to lost DOB in that fricking tube plane he took.

By Lew

August 22, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Brent a-Not too sure about the electronics shop, but it’s about 2-3 blocks toward downtown from the Capitol bldg-across from the Book Garden and 2nd Hand shops-across from where they hold the Farmer’s Market in the summer. How are you familiar with Montpelier, Dude? Are you from up this way?

By radoncbravesfan

August 22, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

It’s actually interesting to me hearing from a Met’s fan their perspective. Since most of us were overly enthusiastic about the Braves dominance of the Mets before we have to eat some crow like a man now.

Having said that I’m rooting for the Phillies mainly because I like the Chris Coste story.

By Brian

August 22, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Yeah, FW respect is so high for Cox that instead of making the right moves this year he let Cox take charge and i think it backfired. Can’t really blame FW but maby he needs to learn from this. To me it seems like Cox doesn’t panic enough in late innings. Gotta try to steal some bases and take a chance or bring in your closer early. FW doesn’t need to panic in the offseason. Be picky who you sign or trade for. Get team players-not enough chemistry on this team! But who am I to talk,Cox is a great manager and the Braves will be back!!!

By THE BEAR

August 22, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

I keep remembering an enail conversation I had with a friend in Seattle when Atlanta traded Horacio Ramirez for Soriano. He said, “we may be sorry the Marianers made this deal before it’s over but I can tell you for sure the Braves will be sorry they made it. Soriano is always on the ‘I don’t feel good’ list. He is either sick or hurting and he will never provide you with anything but an occasional flash of what he might have been if only he was able (and willing) to play even when he was hurting a bit.”

As it turns out there were some prophetic words in that sentence (for both teams).

By Chop Chop

August 22, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I’ve been to Vermont before. I didn’t go to Montpelier, but I visited a friend up there in early March of ‘07. She lives on the Vermont-New Hampshire border. I flew back home out of Burlington. It snowed a little while I was up there. I guess I’d have to shovel snow for a few years before I would get sick of it.

I’ve lived in Massachusetts before (just north of Lowell and right near the New Hampshire border). Being from South Georgia, it was a nice change of pace to actually have seasons. The mountains (to the north) and the beach (to the east) were about 45 minutes to an hour away. It’s hard to beat that.

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Interesting topic of conversation: The Cubs look like the best team in baseball. When is the last time the NL had a team that was pretty clearly the best team in baseball and also won the World Series? The last one I can think of is the 1986 Mets, which is pretty crazy.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Flange 1

But you have to realize that a lot of Braves fan don’t really care what is going on in Mets camp and don’t care to talk Mets at all.

Yet you spent the balance of your post doing just that.

You keep bringing up Santana like Omar went out and got him by trumping everyone with his superior minor league talent and his powerful deal making skills.

Tell you what, you write down Wren’s maneuvers from last off season and I’ll write down Minaya’s. We can then compare. I’m pretty sure you’re not gonna like how that comparison turns out.

There’s a reason the Braves are 15 games behind the Mets. Nobody put a gun to Wren’s head and told him to put the season in the hands of two old starters, a suspect closer, an unproven middle infield, a injury prone CF’er and a single sided LF’er. The middle infielders will improve, as for the rest of them, they need to be replaced. Can’t blame Wren for Frenchy or Hudson but now they’re major problems too.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, what’s up with Gameday? I wanted to keep track of this afternoon’s Nats-Cubs game, but the Gamday thingy is blank.

Anyone know what to do about that? Thanks!

By Shaun

August 22, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

The Bear, Where is BJ?

Anyway, Horacio Ramirez was 8-7 with a 7.16 ERA in 98 innings and 20 starts with the M’s.

Soriano has an ERA under 3 in 86 innings with the Braves.

I understand Soriano has been a disappointment, but how could the Braves be sorry they made this trade? The Braves haven’t gotten what they’d hoped for, but in no way were the Braves the losers in this one.

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Well, now the Nats-Cubs game is in a rain delay, but the Gameday still shouldn’t be blank.

They were all blank last night, too! What the heck is this?

By NCBravesFan

August 22, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Bradbury’s “clarification” doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. On the one hand, he would trade players like Kotchman and Yunel, but potentially sign a FA for five years if the rate was good (a la Aaron Rowand). Those goals seem to me to be in conflict with one another.

Personally I think the Braves could contend next year, but only because the division is so mediocre, and Wren does have some cash to work with. That said, I think if they are smart, they’ll play their cards for 2010 and beyond.

Short term pain for a better return longer term.

By Jersey Gil

August 22, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

McFann Tried the CBSSportline Gamecenter There are better up today, the last three days MLB Gameday it delay.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 22, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Good to see my name change worked again. I think my next name should be - WTF, Braves, WTF?

By McFann Ô

August 22, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jersey Gil, I’ll give it a try when the rain delay is over!

In the meantime, gotta go take advantage of the beautiful, windy day!

By Bobby Cox

August 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

I love Kellster,Glavine,Hammy,Gotay,and the Corkster! They will all be back next year.I HOPE. Just need a power bat. I really like Infante batting clean-up.Protects Chippy and Mac real nice! Need a another pitcher? Why? Glav will be back and Hammy! No need for bullpen. Boyer will be back and stronger than ever along with Nunez and Moylan. Now that’s a 1-2 punch!

By DAP

August 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

NCBraves Short term pain for a better return longer term.

people keep saying this, but i reject it. the truth is, we can be set up to be a very good team in 2010 and beyond without decideding we are going to lose in 2009!! we have so many good players coming up, pitchers and position players, that we could go to battle with this exact team in ‘09, and still be in a good position in 2010 to be competitive!

it makes no sense to concede 2009. it doesnt gain us anything.

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

No way the Braves are sorry about the Ramirez/Soriano swap.

What they may regrest is giving Soriano a 2 year/$8 million contract.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

mcfann go fly a kite. seriously.

By A Serious Question

August 22, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Yes, I am a Mets fan, but I come in peace. I want to know all of your opinions on this: considering the outcome (and not factoring in any what-ifs), would you consider the trade to get Teixeira the worst move in The Braves’ history?

Again, not trying to start a war—the Mets have had their share of bad deals too (see: Kazmir), but seeing the current state of your team and what you had to give up to get him, as well as the sole return of Kotchman, it seems like this might rank as the worst deal in the Braves’ history.

By Andy K.

August 22, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see Jordan Schafer and OF Reid Gorecki come up when the rosters expand…Schafer is most likely or CF either next year or in 2010. Gorecki was once one of the Cardinals Top OF Prospects, and even was called to the bigs last year but never played. In AA, hitting .292, 10 HR, 43 RBI, 16 Stolen bases. Hits and throws Righty, hits lefties well, righties average.

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

I think that the 1998 New York Yankees could easily have been considered the best team in baseball with their 114-48 record.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Brent A

What they may regrest is giving Soriano a 2 year/$8 million contract.

Hmmm..now where have I heard that before? Like two hours after he signed it.

Another Wren unneccessary move. Soriano is obviously a guy who has to sing for his supper every year. Just read the Seattle take on him above. The Braves were hoping to get a cheap deal for 2009 with him and it backfired.

When it comes to toughing it out he’s the anti-Smoltz.

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Lew,

we spent a week in New England last June, before heading up to Canada for a week.

went to Vermont 2x. One day we went ot Ben & Jerry’s (the tour is too short for the money) and then went to Mt. Pelier, toured the capital and enjoyed the downtown.
Had chai at the coffee shop, and it seemed to be real Chai, as I recall, not something from a mix.

We also visited a “local” restaurant, outside of downtown. Have no idea the name of the place, but the gentleman at the visitor’s center sent us there, and it was more than adequate.

Our second visit was actually as we were heading up into Canada, and we stopped for bar-b-q.

they have a fair-sized place, with very good quality bar-b-q, outside of downtown, as I remember.
It kept us full until we reached Montreal.

If you haven’t had it, I’d recommend you give it a try when you go back. I don’t remember the name, but anyone there would know the place.

By Anders

August 22, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

A Serious Question

Get off my train!!!

By brent a.

August 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

No, (first) Teixeira trade not worst in Braves history.

I would still rank Butler/Jacoby for Barker worse.

And that’s without even thinking about many other deals.

By NCBravesFan

August 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

DAP - I don’t necessarily disagree, but I would hate to see key pieces of the farm get traded in order to contend next year.

And frankly, once you get past Sabathia and a couple of others, the FA crop this go ‘round just doesn’t excite me a whole lot.

I’d rather see them keep a few pieces on the ML club, keep the farm together and stockpile a few players in the minors through some trades.

Painful, but it could set them up for a nice run as early as 2010 when some of the A-AA kids start arriving.

By DAP

August 22, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

serious met question still cant really know about the tex trade. we still dont know how the prospects we traded away are going to do in the majors. harrison has made some starts and been inconsistant, but most recently, he shut out the rays for 8 innings for a win. if he turns out to be pretty good, im gonna regret it, but the one that will always hurt me the most is trading justice…not that it messed up the braves for awhile, but he was my favortie player.

By David O'Brien

August 22, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

By Bronx Brave

August 22, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

I agree that Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez provide good insight into the finer points of the game that I haven’t heard many other announcers offer. What I can’t stand about them is how sickeningly pompous they both are.

Case in point: Last night, I was watching the Braves/Mets game on SNY, and a commercial comes on for a bank with Darling as the pitchman. It opens with him saying something like “I won a gold glove, won X number of games, and was the MVP of the NLCS…I guess you could say I’m the total package…kinda like this bank.” It continues, with multiple other self-congratulatory remarks right in line with Darling’s persona in virtually every SNY broadcast.

As bad as Darling is, Hernandez is ten times worse. Earlier this year, when the Mets were struggling, Hernandez was commenting that the team was really lacking charismatic leadership…kinda like he provided in 1986, when everybody on the team followed his lead and the team won the World Series.

Ugh…if he’s going to say s*it like that, they should at least have someone else remind him of the fact that he was traded to the Mets from St. Louis because he had become a cocaine-snorting cancer for the Cardinals.

I’ll take the humility of Pete Van Wieren and Joe Simpson any day.

By crimedogrules

August 22, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Dear Frank Wren,

The season is over, I’m sorry as you that it had to end this way. The “Braves” of the 90’s are over, again sorry it had to end this way. I love Bobby Cox and appreciate everything that he has done for this team for the years. Business is business; he will be upset but ultimatley understand. The future has to begin now, don’t bring up a bunch of minors into this atmosphere — its poison.

If we know that Bobby isn’t coming back next year, why not send the message to the fans and the organization now instead of during the off-season? Why not a manager that is working for a job instead of one that keeps phoning it in?

Spend the month of September interviewing and networking, make a decision by November so we don’t have to drag it out through the winter meetings. Someone needs to kick these Braves in the butt, someone has to make them justify their pay. Bobby is not that guy, not anymore. The city can honor him, he can go into the hall with Smoltz and Glavine (PS dont sign him again either)

Thanks

By DAP

August 22, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan thats fine, but we got millions coming off of payrole. different people have different figures, but were sure that its over $30mil. do we just not spend that? and if we do, how can we spend $30mil and not be a better team? we might trade a couple of guys (not chipper) like kelly, but we arent gonna get better prospects than the ones we have already. not ones that will be able to contribute in 2010.

if we are going to trade for prospects, the only guys it really makes sense to trade are kelly escobar andfrenchy, because these are the only guys that we have other players available to play for them. and you arent gonna get a ton for these guys.

no, what we do this year, is use the money we have avaiable to make this team better for 2009, and beyond that, when our young guys are about ready to take over.

By flange1

August 22, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Anders,

As usual you avoid the point of my post to throw daggers at the Braves. I can’t believe that you didn’t mention Glavine at least once.

In terms of the deals that went down last winter, I don’t see anything that Wren did that was a negative.

If you want to play Coach and complain about the deals that could have been, I don’t think that is a reasonable argument.

The trade that brought in Infante and Ohman was a real winner.

The trade that brought JJJ and G Hernandez was a real winner.

The Aybar trade has not panned out either way, but I think that was more of a “dump Aybar” than anything else.

That leaves the 1 year contract to Glavine. I still say that was the a decent move. It is easy to look at what has happened and say should have signed Lohse, but I think Wren made the correct move. It did not work, but that is the way things happen sometime.

Omar got Johan.

Omar signed Luis Castillo and Moises Alou. Spin those for me. If you think those were good deals, I am willing to listen.

Omar traded for Church and Schneider. So far that has been a good trade.

What did I miss?

If those are the deals we are looking at, I don’t see a clear victor, but I see FW as doing a better job.

You?

By Einstein

August 22, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for your informative blogs. Most are insightful, but seem to share the same frustration we all feel with these Braves. Also, some of your more “cerebral bloggers” (are you listening nscoots, Lew, etal) want to belittle everyone who disagrees with their opinion. But the fact remains, this team, which is very well paid, does not have even a minor league grasp of the fundamentals. That’s bunting, hitting to the opposite field, stealing, etc., whatever it takes to try and win the game. And, this righty/lefty match-up wears out any bullpen. How many current managers not named BC still use this philosphy?
Who’s fault is it? I don’t think LM dictates the strategy, nor does Wren or any of the front office. It rests with managers and coaches, and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results just doesn’t work. The Braves need to quit living in the past and give us a team (without all the icons, re=treads, over-the-hills, has-beens, and never was) that can get us excited about our Atlanta again. The thinking that got us here aint working anymore.

By Goodoleboy58

August 28, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Kotsay doubled in his first Red Sox at bat… good for him

By ksgyotd nslkwqjt

November 13, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

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