Braves

By brian

August 21, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

1st?

By TURTSNAP

August 21, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Perhaps we could actually be the first team to score a run tonight? That would be nice for a change

By Raleigh Brave

August 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say. This “team” might not win 70 games. And all that would mean would be playing around .500 ball. Right? For this bunch, .500 is a tall order. Could they lose 100?

By Lee in S GA

August 21, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Didn’t realize Campbell has a new CD release. Always liked him…figured I was one of the few. What a h3ll raiser though.

By Clerks III

August 21, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Dave

Do you think we are in for a decade of horrible baseball in Atlanta, like in the 80s or is this just a one year thing and next year we will compete at least for a freaken wild card spot.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

that was a good Q and A with shafer. it seems like i remember when this came out, someone mentioned that you can get suspended under HGH rule if you know about someone using it. meaning, if someone on shafer’s team was using HGH, and he knew about it, but didnt report him…?

anyways, he basically insists in the Q and A that he wasnt using, so if thats true, his great numbers last year werent because of HGH. thats good. id like to se him up in september. maybe he will be ready for the show in’09 despite missing those 50 games at AA.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

neither has pitched more than seven innings in 18 starts between them this season.

So…Pedro’s goin’ 8 tonight, huh?

By chris

August 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Any guesses on who the September callups might be? Could we see LeRew?

Chris from MD

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Lew

From last blog…

Why are you so angry? I’m merely stating my opinion. It may or may not be right. But that’s what this blog is for - people to express their opinions and discuss it with other people.

I’m sorry that you don’t agree with me but your posts towards me really seem attacking in nature. I’m not trying to cry about it or anything - I’m just wondering if you intend them to be that way or if I am reading them wrong. It’s obviously difficult to figure out tone when all it is is type.

Last time I checked - we both wanted the same thing - success for the Braves. It’s not like I’m on here just saying “Bobby is a donk” over and over. I’m trying to explain my views on what is wrong with this team.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

From last blog…

Thanks for the backup N8. I didn’t feel like looking up all the people that had predicted the Braves in the World Series.

I think Buster Olney did too.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

it looks like chipper’s hot streak has ended. for while it seemed like at least a blog a week included stats from chipper starting in june last year or something, where he has just been unbelievable for a very long period of time. he is definetly slumping…but is still hitting .363….thats amazing. i hope he will get hot again. if he can stay over .360, i think he will win it.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I hope we go into the game realizing it’s not the same Pedro these kids watched growing up

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

DAP

Yes, Chipper is definitely struggling. I’m sure watching the team collapse around him makes it hard to “get up” for each at bat. He has got to be frustrated.

At least he works counts and acts like he cares. Most of the hitters on this team swing at the first pitch so they can go back and sit on the bench and eat sunflower seeds.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the shout-out on the accountibility tree. I really worked hard on it so I’m glad you liked it.

To answer your question - Liberty Media is accountible to their share holders - as is any other company.

If they are privately owned (I have no idea but I assume they are public) then they are not accountable to anyone. They can do whatever they want with their investement.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Grady Sizemore had 7 RBI’s today from the leadoff spot thats incredible

By Lucas Land

August 21, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

N8 - from previous blog

Obviously I don’t pay much attention to pre-season MLB picks by ESPN. I think I see why now.

By retiredscout

August 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Will Chipper win the batting title? Doubtful. When he was pushing .400 and getting good pitches to hit, don’t forget Texeira was hitting behind him…that’s a major part of the reason he got off to such a good start. After Texeira was gone he was “protected” by the hapless Kotchman, or Infante…no reason to give Jones good pitches to hit anymore. Also contributing to his slide were his annual stints on the bench with various “tweaks”..these rest periods are called career extenders, but it is hard to stay sharp when you sit down so much. He might still win the title, though if he gets enough at bats. My guess is if he has a lead in the race a couple of weeks into Sept., he will get a “tweak” and try to back in.

By VaBravesfan

August 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB: Heard that song a million times, never knew the name of it.

By Renegator

August 21, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Quick question.

Have the hits on this blog (per day, per week or however they get measured) gone down as the season has gone into the toilet or have they gone up as people log on to complain/vent?

Just curious.

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

For the ESPN Insiders, Neyer has an interesting article, “Reviewable plays from baseball history.” Here’s one:

Game 2, 1991 World Series

With two outs in the third inning, Atlanta’s Ron Gant shot a single into left field, and teammate Lonnie Smith scooted from first base to third. But as the Sporting News Baseball Guide later noted, “As Gant tried to retreat to first after rounding the bag, 250-pound first baseman Kent Hrbek took a throw from pitcher Kevin Tapani and seemed to lift the 172-pound Gant off the base while applying a tag. Umpire Drew Coble ruled that momentum had carried Gant off the bag and called the baserunner out. End of rally, end of inning.”

The Braves wound up losing that game 3-2, and they wound up losing an incredibly close Series in seven games. And for most of those watching the replays, there was little doubt that Hrbek had broken the rules.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Are you trying to bring tears to my eyes? Come on now

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

retiredscout, since Tex left Chipper is hitting .308.

Last year before July 31, when he was mostly hitting in front of a horrible Andruw Jones, he hit .340. His batting average was actually a little lower after Tex came last season (.333).

By BA

August 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Hrbek was a jrk.

By Shaun

August 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

retiredscout, also, a key for Chipper may be getting just enough plate appearances to qualify. Not that Chipper would sit out games on purpose (not trying to be sarcastic though I’m sure some will take it that way) but if he happens to sit, it may help him win the thing.

By Curtis Jones

August 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

David, thanks for the update on NYC (luv my annual visits there, you’re right about the scenery and Glen Campbell. Very underrated singer and musician…I’ll look up the new CD. Quick question: occasionally on this site, there will be a reference to Escobar’s state of mind. Something about needing constant reassurance from Renteria, Brayan Pena, etc. What’s up with that?

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

For those talking about trading Chipper: Are we really going to get equal value for him? Even if we aren’t going to win this year or next, don’t we still want the younger players to be able to go to him for help and emulate him? Just look at McCann. He’s constantly singing Chipper’s praises for helping him and I saw today on mlb.com where Teixeira was too. Don’t you think keeping him around will actually help in the long run, especially with younger players coming up now?

What’s the harm in keeping him around for the next few years until we have a replacement ready, say Jon Gilmore?

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun—

Is he sure that umpire wasn’t Joe West?

; >

Horrible play, though. I’ve heard about it many times…

By TNJeff

August 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Cardinals will sweep Braves - Teams seem to get better (pitching & hitting - wise) once they face the Braves.

ANYONE ELSE THINKING BRAVES GONNA LOSE 100? I’ve done the math and if the Braves can continue their streak of futility - they can do it.

Course the losing is all because of injuries & has nothing to do with personel or managing decisions.

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say. Raleigh Brave

What did I say that was positive? I’m missing something here.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for asking Cox if the team has lost focus.

I don’t think it’s as dumb a question as you think. I see a lot of reporters ask the same question when teams are struggling (and it’s often followed by the same enthusiastic remark that Cox gave you).

I applaud you for doing what many of the fans wanted you to do. Maybe it’s a wake up call for Bobby and the team. When the team loses focus, that’s often on the manager. When the question is asked, I think the manager takes it personally, as he should. Maybe that fires Bobby up to get the team playing with more desire.

I just don’t think it’s as pointless a question as you made it seem…though I’m standing from afar and it puts u in the hot seat.

When was the last time Bobby has shown emotion to anyone other than an umpire? Frankly, it’s about damn time.

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Isn’t it quite a funny little joke that some baseball snobs (I’m thinking of, oh, a George Will type of snob) bemoan the idea that their beloved game would allow umpires to use technology to enable them to review a call?

Restricting replay to home run issues is just the beginning. A play like the infamous one you mentioned is actually rare, but I fully expect plays on the basepaths and plays at the plate to be reviewed in the near future. It’s a natural step for baseball to take.

What would be very ironic is if there are several blown calls on the basepaths in the playoffs this year that can’t be reviewed. Those damned cameras will have no one to inform. Serves ‘em right, the buggers! The scourge of instant replay shall never sully the imperfection that makes baseball so wonderfully maddening!

By Herschel Talker

August 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

“By Raleigh Brave

August 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Love your columns but boy are you straining to find something positive to say.”

Raleigh Brave - what else would you expect from this blog? We all know that DOB is a blind homer. I think tonight’s game is “pivotal” in his mind. But I give him props for being an eternal optimist. Positive is way to go. Dave’s a good guy. Can’t say the same about that jerk Terence Moore.

By Efrim

August 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

How about a player like Wladimir Balentien? Might make it difficult that Seattle is terrible and going to lose Raul Ibanez to free agency, but maybe trying to acquire a slugger like that. Not sure we really need a veteran bat, just a power bat to play left. Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

August 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Renegator, no worries, my man. Just having a little fun.

Hey, did you folks see Buster’s blog today? Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them, by far.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Retiredscout: Even if “protection” exists (and there have been numerous studies that allege it does not), Chipper should be WALKING more with the likes of Kotchman and Infante behind him instead of Texiera, which, by default, maintain his high BA because the more walks a batter takes, the less “at bats” that are recorded and hence the higher batting average in the number of ABs (instead of Plate Appearances). So it shouldn’t necessarily hurt Chipper, so long as he can continue walking at an above average pace (and he can maintain a .360 average or thereabouts).

Additionally, this point may be mute if McCann is hitting behind Chipper (as he should be on most nights - at least when he’s playing- since he’s the team’s next best hitter). If you do believe in protection, and McCann is hitting behind Chipper, he shouldn’t be seeing that many more balls than he did when Tex was hitting behind him.

By flange1

August 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

DO you think we will ever hear the entire Jordan Schafer HGH suspension story?

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By ES

August 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Who cares anymore?

By StingerSplash

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

No wonder you don’t have time to do a box if you’re typing in “Ooo who” “Ooo who” and “woo who.”

By Chop Chop

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Maybe I’m deliberately misquoting you and taking your words out of context, but I believe you typed this in the blog up there, you Positive Polly!

“A sign of hope for…the…Braves. The Braves…finally put an end to…the Mets. I say that the…cool, over-the-top stuff was positive. I watched…it…with…glee.

This thing ain’t over yet, folks.”

(Man, you are delusional. Such damning words, DOB.)

By Braves Suck

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

When will you and the rest of the AJC columnist stop slobbering over the old Codger Bobby Cox. This guy may be respected by his team and the league, but his teams over the last dozen of years have floundered from mediocre to just plan bad. With all the talent the Braves have had, he can only show 1-WS title. He sucks and you guys should start telling the truth.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Chipper has been struggling a bit lately. “Funny” how our two best hitters picked the same time to lower their AVGs and such—which brings us to:

McFann’s Disturbing Stat of the Day!

Since making his return from getting “Shane Victorinoed”, McCann has hit .254 with 1 homer, 3 doubles, 7 RBI, 2 walks, and 8 strikeouts. His OBP since Aug. 4 is a disturbing .279, and his SLG is .356.

He’s drop 7 points off his season AVG (.302-.295), 14 points off his season OBP (.385-.371), and 31 points off his season SLG (.564-.533)—so naturally his OPS has dropped from .949-.904.

Could just be a “slump”, though…Nuthin to do with July 27, right? Huh, what are the odds?

}: (

By THB

August 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

This season is long gone, but that does not mean next year is. The only thing that is certain for next year is that it is, in fact, a new year. I mean, honestly. We don’t know what JoJo or Morton will bring to the table. We don’t know what Schafer, Hanson, Medlen, or any other players we get in trades will do. But I will say this. We need some new faces on the team.

Look what the Twins did. They traded Johan Santana and let Torii Hunter leave via Free Agency, and their record is 72-54, only .5 games out of the division and wildcard. Theyir record is .5 games under the Red Sox. They have 5 good young pitchers in Blackburn, Slowey, Baker, Perkins, and Liriano. All have ERA’s under 4.24 and none are older than 26. My point is that Baker and Liriano had a good bit of success, but Slowey, Blackburn, and Perkins are all stepping up. If JJ and one of Morton/JoJo do well and the other does okay, we’d have a decent rotation.

The twins offense is not scary in any way. Mauer is a good table setter (good OBP, AVG, not much power), and Morneau is the only power hitter with 19 HR.

I guess my point is, anything can happen.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

ES Who cares anymore?

I DO!!

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By IVSPORT

August 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Sports writers aren’t mandated to find something positive. I have an issue with writers that only seem to seek out the bad and ignore the good but with a team like this, you can’t criticize a writer for not sugar-coating the team’s woes…it’s his job.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Can I get a link to that Buster Olney article? I’m looking on the ESPN but it’s so cluttered with stuff I can’t find it

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hey, did you folks see Buster’s blog today? Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them, by far. DOB

Francoeur’s 4-5 game was against Palmer, Hinshaw, and Sadler (Who? Exactly).

His only multi-HR game this year (7 of his 55 RBI, or 13%), came against Washington.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

THB

The Twins have speed and play small ball… 2 things we haven’t done in years

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Be careful out on that limb, DOB.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

CHANGE IN STRATEGY FOR 2009 AND BEYOND

Why should we even be rooting for the team to win games anymore? Sure, certain players have arb raises coming up and every major leaguer (at least I hope every MLB player on our team) has some sense of pride and doesn’t want to go down without a fight, BUT shouldn’t we all be rooting for us to lose every single game here on out for the remainder of 2008 so that we can inch closer to the #1 draft pick in the 2009 draft? I doubt we’ll overtake the Nationals, but man, that Stephen Strasburg kid (who struck out 23 batters in ONE game) looks like the real deal to me and THAT is the kind of pitcher we need to draft and build around.

BLOW UP the team for 2009. JC Bradbury is right and I know Cox will hate it and would never go for it, but Wren needs to do the smart thing here. WE ARE NOT 2 or 3 pieces away from contending- not without Hudson next season and with Morton, Reyes and James showing inconsistency (in James’ case, consistency in giving up HRs at an astronomical rate).

Here’s what I would do:

1) IF Halladay can be had from the Jays, I would trade them SS Yunel Escobar (they have Eckstein and McDonald playing SS - enough said), 2B Martin Prado (Aaron Hill is their 2B and has been injured and I believe is starting to get more expensive than he’s worth now), one of Reyes/James/Morton OR one of our prospects from the following pool (Flowers, Hicks, KK or Gorkys), and a fourth lesser piece (either a lower level prospect or a player that projects as a future utility guy in the majors. That’s alot to give up, and for Halladay, I’d be tempted to give up more IF (and this is a big if) we were granted a 72 hour negotiation window to negotiate an extension.

IF you can’t land Halladay, don’t go after Sheets. Go after CC Sabathia. Workhorse. Big bodied (unlikely to break down as easily as a Roy Oswalt, Tim Lincecum or Timmy Hudson). Ace numbers. Give him 5 years, 100m. If he wants 7 years, Santana dollars, offer him a final deal of 6/120m with a 7th year TEAM option with a reasonable buyout. If he doesn’t bite, move on.

2) Sign Pat Burrell to play LF. IF you can sign Milton Bradley (who has been the paragon of teammates in Arlington this year) for cheap given his reputation and the market (and if Burrell prices himself out because the Yanks are offering him 17m+ to replace Abreu), I’d sign MB. Shoot, if Frenchy continues to suck, I wouldn’t mind MB and Burrell manning the corners.

3) If Burrell/MB can’t be had, I would approach the Tigers about Magglio Ordonez given Illitch’s fury over the way the season has gone despite his payroll boost. If we can give up little and get them to throw 3m per our way (making him a 15m player per), Maggs would be a good bridge to Heyward and company in 2010/2011.

4) Re-evaluate 1B. Look, 1B is a premium power position. Kotchman ain’t a bad hitter (not this bad at least) per se, but he’s a below average 1B offensively. That’s not a joke- you can research the numbers yourself. He no longer takes walks (what the heck happened to his patience?) and has never been a bopper, so I’d re-evaluate if I were the Braves. See if a team needs a cheap 1B in the offseason and see if you can get 1 or 2 good prospects in return. I’d unload him and go with Kala Ka’iahue at 1B next season (assuming he’s not part of the package going to TOR for Halladay).

5) Lillibridge to play SS following Esco’s departure. The kid can play- he just needs Abs, repetitions and some confidence.

6) Schafer to CF. Same as above. Let Kotsay walk, please.

7) Do NOT (and I repeat DO NOT) re-sign Glavine, Hampton, et al. this winter. Its time to bid them adieu and say thanks for the memories (not in Hampton’s case, since there are no memories). Smoltz is a special case- I would let him walk, but I’m tempted to offer him an incentive laden deal to come back and pitch for 1M or so and if he can’t, its not a big sunk cost. Unlike Glavine, when Smoltz pitched this season, he still pitched well.

8) Get some cheap depth for the pen. Do not overspend on relief pitchers - they are the most fungible asset (albeit important) in the majors.

9) Invest heavily in the international and domestic drafts.

10) Groom Eric Campbell to be the heir apparent to Chipper at 3B. Get him ready at Miss. in 2009

11) Promote Tommy Hanson into the rotation. In ST, evaluate Redmond, Medlen, James and Reyes.

12) Ship Frenchy off somewhere in a classic GM “challenge” trade. Do your best to get equal value. Would Dayton trade the struggling Alex Gordon for Francoeur and another player?

2009 Lineup SS Lillibridge OR CF Jordan Schafer 2B Kelly Johnson (2 good OBPs at top) 3B Chipper Jones LF Pat Burrell (or Magglio Ordonez) C Brian McCann RF Milton Bradley* (or Jeff if he can’t be moved) 1B Kotchman OR Kala Ka’ihue (or other 1B acquired via trade) Lillibridge or Schafer (whichever is not leading off) Pitcher’s spot

Rotation:

Halladay / OR CC Sabathia Jurrjens Campillo Morton/Reyes Hanson

The back end of this rotation is somewhat weak (in experience) but has tremendous upside. I am NOT expecting to contend in 2009 (even with all of the changes above- I think it would be a competitive team, but I think 2010 would the year to really start making a prolonged run ala 1991).

After 2009, you have the following players coming up (hopefully):

1B Freddie Freeman - the future at 1B. Finally, a 1B that can walk, slug, and play defense in our system. And he’s only 18 years old (YOUNGER than Heyward and putting up better OPS numbers, but gets less attention.)

OF Jason Heyward- stud. Nothing else to say. He and Freeman are our future middle of the order hitters that will replace Chipper and co.

C Tyler Flowers (if he’s not traded) - he can play C and boy does this kid have an EYE. .430 On base % this year and maintaining it. Big body projects for big power too- especially from the C position. Not much older than Matt Wieter, the top C prospect in the game (but Wieter is doing even better than Flowers is (hard to imagine) at AA - just an absolute stud).

SS Brandon Hicks- good power, good eye, amazing defense (some say as good or better than Escobar). At AA already.

Cole Rohrborough - LHP with the potential to be a #2 or #3 in the bigs. Great stuff, very projectable.

Jeff Locke - could be an ace if he can harness his abilities. Great k/9 numbers, low walks (great control), tons of groundballs, low xbh rates, love the kid. Projectable, out of the Northeast so he’s going to take longer than the kids in the southeast to develop but once he does (and if he does), watch out.

Tommy Hanson - will be up before 2010, but I think of Millwood when I think of Hanson. Potential to be a middle of the rotation type of SP as early as 2009 with more upside than that. Has better #s than Jurrjens did at the same level.

Gorkys Hernandez - future leadoff CF for some team (if not us)

Erneso Meija - slugging 1B - needs more experience - may have a future as a big league regular. Big bodied.

Eric Campbell - future at 3B. Better than the others in our system (Adam Coe, Van Pope, etc.). ALWAYS could hit the ball a country mile, but started taking walks at a good clip this season too.

There are several other kids I’m neglecting to mention (Rodriguez, Travis Jones, etc.) - bottom line: we have DEPTH.

Then there’s a whole other slew of talent at the lower levels (ala Teheran, Delgado, David Frances, Casey Hodges, Duvall, Spruill, etc.)

The future is bright. DO NOT FORECLOSE IT but choosing the wrong path in 2009.

BE SMART, WREN. PLEASE - for the sake of the future of this organization.

By Hit, Heap, Hit!

August 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Another thing…I’m afraid Chipper is going to let the batting title slip out of his hands. If he can’t hit at Shea where can he hit? I’d rather Chipper get a hot bat again but if not, maybe AP will go into a slump. I was afraid this would happen when Tex wasn’t hitting in front of him anymore.

By Chipper J

August 21, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

For those talking about trading Chipper: Are we really going to get equal value for him? Even if we aren’t going to win this year or next, don’t we still want the younger players to be able to go to him for help and emulate him? Just look at McCann. He’s constantly singing Chipper’s praises for helping him and I saw today on mlb.com where Teixeira was too. Don’t you think keeping him around will actually help in the long run, especially with younger players coming up now?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I don’t want to hang around to be Mr. Miyagi to this Karate Kid collection of players? Another shot at a ring wouldn’t kill me.

By gayle

August 21, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Nice bit about the ‘91 Series. But that wasn’t the worst play - the worst play was in Game 7 when Lonnie Smith was rounding third and was duped by the Twins third baseman thinking a thrown was coming. There was no throw, Lonnie stayed at third and the Braves lost the game and the Series 1-0.

Looking at replays, you can see Jimy Williams, the Braves third base coach, standing there in the right spot with his arms at his side! What the …..! He should have been waving Lonnie around third like a man possessed.

Amazing how you can look back at such tiny events and realize how much one of them could have changed things.

The Braves legacy - whatever that is worth - will be as a one-hit-wonder until they get that second Championship. ‘91 and ‘96 could have and should have gone Atlanta’s way.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Pretty damning numbers about Francoeur against good pitchers. Worst in the league against them,

even if frenchy can kill just the bad pitchers, that would help. everybody look like the best pitcher in the league against us right now.

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

shaun

You remember the 1996 world series? Braves up 2 games to none, about to go up 3-0 when leading 6-0 in game 3.

When asked where the game turned, a bitter Cox mentioned a leadoff foul pop fly in the sixth inning with Atlanta ahead 6-0. Rightfielder Jermaine Dye overran the ball, which fell behind him and rightfield umpire Tim Welke. “Dye couldn’t get around the umpire to catch the g******* ball,” Cox said, although Dye had told Welke while taking the field in the seventh, “It’s not your fault. I should have caught it

I remember that play as the turning point as well. You could feel the momentum switch after that play. Without the “RF Umpire*, Dye would’ve caught that ball. Instead, Jeter walked to lead off the inning which started a 3 run rally and set the stage for Leyritz 2 innings later to tie it.

The Braves should’ve won that WS too.

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. Sucks.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Just to add to my 4:09 post:

In the fifteen games before (and including) the game where he got “Victorinoed”, McCann hit .327 with a .476 OBP and a .694 SLG. He had 5 homers, 15 RBI, 3 doubles, 13 walks, and only 3 strikeouts in that span. The fifteen games since? Well, see my 4:09.

Hit, Heap, Hit!—

Ah, good—the name change! I hope it works…

By Original Jon

August 21, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Rob Seriously, you are living a pipe dream with all those scenarios buddy. Not gonna happen, not one bit. I see the Braves as going after someone like Lowe or Garland, but will steer clear of Sabathia and Sheets. And do you honestly think they would sign Milton Bradley? Seriously?

By TheCutMan

August 21, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

So, when will the chickens that HAVE come home to roost start clucking about CHANGE needed in many aspects of this team?

By Bobby's Cox

August 21, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

More from that 1996 World Series.

Remember, this was the year of that Maier debacle too.

Key survived the fifth when second base ump Terry Tata incorrectly called Grissom out trying to advance to second on a ball that dribbled a few feet away from Giradi. Braves manager Bobby Cox, at his boiling point, argued with Tata, and then, unprovoked, lit into third-base ump Tim Welke, for whom he was still mad at for getting in Jermaine Dye’s way in Game 3. Cox was ejected and returned to the clubhouse to watch the rest of the World Series.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

rob interesting post, man. long, but interesting.

your run down of the minor leaguers we have just a year or so away makes me think maybe we should just spend on a few free agents, and hope for the best.

for instance, if we didnt make any trades, and hung onto all of our guys, we could sign sheets, blake, ohman, and juan cruz. one hitter, one starter, two relievers. we could try it with a rotation of sheets, jurjens, morton, campillo, jojo, and hope that the offense comes back around in ‘09. if it doesnt work, we still have sheets for a few years so he can pitch for us in 2010 thru 2012 when the kids are coming up, and blake can stay around as a corner infield/outfield utility type.

By Senator Barrack Obama

August 21, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Braves,

Time calls for CHANGE, Change YOU can believe in.

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Goodoleboy-Yeah, the twins play small ball and have speed. They may play small ball, which by the way is completely overrated, but their speed (They don’t have much of it, actually) is negated by the fact that they don’t get on base that much either. I mean, Carlos Gomez leads the team with 25 SB and has a .286 (!!) OBP. That’s lower than Frenchy’s. And he’s been caught 10 times, which is 10 less times he could have been driven in. Delmon Young has 13 SB with a .330 OBP. Not horrible, not very good. Denard Span has 10 SB, but has been caught 4 times, not horrible.

Small ball is one of the most overrated terms in baseball. There’s a time and place for sacrifice bunts and hit and runs. You sacrifice bunt a guy to second or third when you need 1 run. You don’t sacrifice bunt with Yunel Escobar when he’s hitting .300. When you only need 1 run, sure, bunt him over. And pitchers, sure, bunt him over. Stolen bases are helpful, but not necessary. I would rather have a team that has a bunch of 10 SB guys becuase they caught the other team offguard instead of going every time. But I can see how stolen bases help when you have Jose Reyes running.

The Twins are winning because of their attitude and their pitching. Their offense compliments their pitching, but isn’t very good.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed”,

August 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Ha knew this stat was comming. Don’t worry this not another case of estrada…I’m going to beg and beg bobby cox to give him a high heater in his chin. The loser deserves it

By Jamie in Richmond

August 21, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Rob,

You were kidding right? Wow.

By N9 “Shane Victorinoed”,

August 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

I was dreaming last night—all of us bloggers (except sniper) attended a phillies game in the same section and booed the living ^##@(&U*^ out of victorino

By BL

August 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB No need for Buster’s blog. You are a good numbers guy and have made a good effort to show JF’s bad ones ALL year. Glad it is clear now that the team is why we are sinking.

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Chipper J

Another run for a ring wouldn’t kill me either.

By Bobbymahlon

August 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

DAP—- Where did you read the Q & A article about Jordan Scheafer, I would like to read it ? Thanks in advance for your help. Bobbymahlon

By Brian

August 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Iv’e noticed if your positive here no one wants to talk to you. Stop whining people, this might be a good thing for them to go through this so we know who to keep and who they can trade to the Nats. I’m not convinced on Blanco,keep him as back-up next year, but look for Josh Anderson in CF. Pedro Martinez looks like he smells like arm pits!

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

I was dreaming last night—all of us bloggers (except sniper) attended a phillies game in the same section and booed the living ^##@(&U^ out of victorino*

That would be so much fun!

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Bobbymahlon-If you go to baseballamerica.com, jordan schafer is the main picture and his article is right under it.

By bfan54

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Brian - who cares if you’re “first?”. DOB doesn’t, I don’t, the Blog doesn’t, so why do you? Explain this inanity? I am a loss.

By Lew

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Rene-Dude, I’m not angry with you. You and I are always cool with each other-you should know that. I never called you And Idiot or anything like it and I never called your intelligence or desire for a winning Braves’ team into question, have I? Never would, either (though your Gator allegiance is inexplicabl -Go Dawgs!!!!). Your massive negativity this year-from the very beginning of the season-HAS been very surprising. Honestly, it’s YOU who have sounded angry, for quite some time.

I’m just mystified with you (and many others, too) who are so into this accountability thing. It’s just counterproductive in my opinion. You have what amounts to an entirely new regime in Atlanta, with the purchase of the team by Liberty Media and the installation of Frank Wren as GM. Yes, Terry McGuirk has been the defacto head of things for a while and The House Wren was second in command to Schuerholz, but it’s not like it’s the same situation for any of them as it was when they were under Time Warner’s miserly thumb. Though to be honest, after that fiasco of buying AOL, they might not have had much choice. Dumb management any way you care to view it, IMO-but NOT the fault of Schuerholz, McGuirk, Frank Wren OR Liberty Media.

I’ve gone back and forth on this same thing with Tennessee Paul as well, who is and has always been one of my best buddies on the blog, despite occasional disagreements-as are you. However, like I’ve told Ten Paul,-give the guys a chance to do something. Maybe if NOTHING gets done after the 08 season, or barely any $$$ is spent to fill holes, there will be a bona fide beef with this ownership group and Upper Management, as well as a realization they will not honor their word. Let’s see, now that some big bucks are coming off the books, just what they are going to do. They claim salary will go UP this year in addition to the bucks coming off of the books. Let’s see if this is so before we condemn them.

Let’s see if FW can pull off some more great deals like he did last winter before we decide to fire him after just one season at the helm.This is definitely the first time in ages that there will be available $$$$. Wren showed what he was capable of with the Jurrjens and Infante/Ohman deals. Let’s give Frank and the Braves’ Brass at least a chance to prove they have the Team’s best interests at heart. I promise that if there is not significant improvement to the point of serious contention by the time 2010 comes around, that I will be screaming just as loudly as you or anyone else.

Things went to hell in a handbasket very quickly this year and snowballed. It isn’t always easy to go out and replace major parts like Smoltz and Glavine were expected to be (we KNEW Hampton might not help at all)-much less having to deal with Hudson’s situation - in midstream. The development of young kids like JoJo and Morton and their growing pains (completely normal for young kids-Jurrjens is the exception) are frustrating to watch, but I think even the most negative can agree that they have show flashes of brilliance as well and that their futures look pretty bright, in all actuality.

I think even the trading of Tex to the Angels was made with the future in mind, though Kotchman has yet to show us anything, really. Maybe there are too many holes to fill them all this offseason, but we DO have some pretty impressive talent in the minors, like Schafer, Heyward, Hanson, Medlin and Campbelll (many others, too) that should fill some of the holes, even if not until 2010-so maybe it WILL take one more year of less than favorable results before we take off again. I just don’t think that wanting to fire or “hold accountable” any of those you think should pay for a lousy season will help us improve, in the least. That’s all.

By Chipper J

August 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

Another run for a ring wouldn’t kill me either.

Then I suggest you pack your bags too.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

N9—

Definitely not another case of Estrada, but it is sort of int’resting (if you like crummy stats).

I have found one other stretch of 15 games (June 22-July 8) where his numbers looked pretty bad.

Hey, everybody has slumps…

And I don’t know if I’d plant one in Shane’s chin…Maybe the ribs…Better yet, plunk Utley!

By Vince

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Break out the brooms. Mets sweep braves.

By DAP

August 21, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

bobbymahlon it was posted on the previous blog. here it is again

shafer is pretty clear that he did not use HGH, and that the suspension was because of something else. i believe him. maybe DOB can figure out what the rules are and what else he could have been suspended for under the HGH rule.

By THB

August 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Bobbymahlon-Oops, Schafer is no longer the main picture, but his article is right next to the picture.

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal That would be so much fun!

Haha…Wouldn’t it, though?

But I wouldn’t wanna be in the same ballpark as the Fillies…

By Rob

August 21, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Original Jon:

Please explain WHY my proposals are a “pipe dream”, since you think you know more about the organization that I do (and I doubt that).

First of all, addressing your first contention, yes, I think the Braves would consider signing Milton Bradley if he were to come cheaper than his production would otherwise dictate for a “baggage-free” player in the open market. First of all, several Rangers have spoken up in MB’s defense, including Michael Young who recently stated that MB was “the best teammate I’ve ever had”. Second, didn’t we trade for Gary Sheffield when he was being criticized left and right in LA? He was supposedly a major pain for every single team and manager he has ever played for (and apparently continues to be a thorn in Leyland’s side in Detroit in his asking for more time in the OF as opposed to playing the DH) - but Bobby Cox tends to bring the best out in his players. MB would be no exception. Again, if you read my post you’d see that my first choice would be Burrell or Maggs, but if neither can be had (Burrell via FA and Maggs via trade), then MB is a solid bridge to Heyward, Gorkys, etc.

Second, the Braves have approx 40-45m coming off the books this year in Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, etc. That’s a whole lotta cash (although it pales in comparison to the 75m the Yankees have coming off the books- life is just unfair), and the Braves should NOT and I repeat SHOULD NOT be spending large sums of money on MEDIOCRE players like the following:

Casey Blake Jon Garland Ryan Dempster (2008 notwithstanding- please look at his CAREER numbers and you’ll quickly see what a fluke year looks like) etc

Please, spare me. Garland is making 12M THIS year- what makes you think he and his agent will want any less than that over 4-5+ years in the open market? And you know what? some chump GM somewhere will end up paying him that and live to regret it. Sure, the guy once won 18 games. But what you don’t see unless you delve into the stats is the following: a career 105+ (era adjusted for park) of 105 (100 is average) with an ERA+ of approx 100 this season. Garland is sporting a fungible 4.58 ERA with an opponents batting average against of .304 away from the pitcher friendly confines of the LAA stadium. Garland has the thoroughly unimpressive 4.79 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched ratio (over his career), and he has (at last check) struck out a measley 68 guys over 150+ innings pitched this season. He has also allowed 173 hits in just 152 innings -meaning he has to rely on the defense behind him ALOT more than a Smoltz, Sabathia, Sheets, etc type of pitcher. All that for 12m+ (more than likely over 14m over 5 years)? HECK NO.

Garland is NOT a difference maker. Blake is hardly league average for his position- again NOT a difference maker. Dempster is having a career year - again, likely NOT a difference maker (especially over the long term).

If you’re going to be spending over 12m per on a single player, pony up the remaing 5m or so and get a REAL difference maker along the lines of Sabathia, Burrell, etc. OTHERWISE SIT ON THE CASH UNTIL THE FOLLOWING SEASON - do not get saddled with bad, longterm contracts just because you couldn’t land the premium FAs.

We do have a ton of young, impressive talent coming up the pipeline, and we should maximize it instead of trading it all away for one or two pieces as we have on the past (for rental players ala Tex, no less). Lets be the ones who pillage other farm systems and make a run from 2011-2015 when we will be really competitive.

Of course, you are probably right that its unrealistic to expect Cox not to convince Wren (if Wren doesn’t want to do it himself that is) to re-sign Glavine and Smoltz for nostaliga reasons.. which is utterly NOT in the team’s best interests given the state of our team now and in 2009. LET THE KIDS PLAY AND DEVELOP AND SIGN/TRADE FOR REAL DIFFERENCE MAKERS that you will have when the kids are all up and playing by 2010.

That should be the strategy. Will it be? We’ll see.

By Braveheart

August 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

McCann was Flyin’ Hawaiianed sounds better than Victorinoed.

Anyone see that American boy get all kamikaze on that Chinese catcher the other day? I think he was exacting revenge for Nastia getting robbed by that lil’ 8 year old Chinese gymnast the other night. In baseball, a tie goes to the runner but in gymnastics it seems a tie goes to the Chinese….. at least when the Olympics are in Beijing.

By clutch

August 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

*There’s a time and place for sacrifice bunts and hit and runs. * THB

Ya, that time is the post season and All-Star games when teams are trying to win 1 “meaningless” game.

If it were so meaningless to play small ball, teams wouldn’t do it in the post season.

Also, the Twins are winning because they can hit with RISP. They lead the league and have 4 of the best players in baseball avg wise with RISP. That’s clutch. They have great team chemistry and a great manager.

It makes sense for teams that can hit with pressure to bunt runners over. If this team bunted runners over, who would drive them in, Frenchy? Ha. I hope that’s your reasoning for downgrading “small ball”. The Angels have won with it all year, and in year’s past as they’ve lacked power. I’d almost be certain this team can win with nobody’s like Anderson, Prado, blanco by playing small ball and having guys like Chipper and McCann bring them home. Well, certain they will win more than they are now.

By Brian

August 21, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Brian never said he was first!

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Rob- that was the most BRILLIANT post I have read on this blog, period. Amen to all of it. This team is not one or two pieces away as you said. I am confident in Wren and think he can pull it off, but I am with your approach 150%. We have the money- spend it wisely - groom the kids. What’s not to like folks? He’s smart.

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Rob- That was the most intelligent post I have ever read on this blog, and that includes DOB’s suggestions. Brilliant chap. I have confidence that Wren will follow that sound strategy- sign difference makers (but not expensive mediocre veterans), groom the kids on the farm, and reload for a 5+ year run starting in 2010. Makes sense to me. Very, very, very good post.

By bfan54

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

This team is not playing with any pride, i.e., “playing the best baseball” they are capable of”. I love this team, admittedly saw the early writing on the wall (‘writ large’)I might add, and, with the season shot, I am looking for individual successes to keep the fires burning. One of the things I am not rooting for has nothing to do with the player, Chipper Jones, whom I think is a great player, great Brave, etc. But he doesn’t deserve the batting title vis a vis Albert Pujols. Albert has best him in games played (115/100) in AB’s (411/356), in hits (143/129), in doubles (31/16), in HR’s(26/19),and RBI 79/62.

I looked into these stats only after a blogger yesterday talked about what a “weak” year CJ was having. So I looked at the numbers and a had to agree. This is a “good, ‘though declining< year” for a great player.

I hate that I can’t find more positives, given my moniker, and maybe this is because I am too connected to the team. As with many of us, the nostalgia of having Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, and I admit that afer Mad Dog pitched a 7 inning, 2 hit, 79 pitch shutout - hell, yes, I wanted him, back. Don’t forget, Javy. He was an early mistake, and I screamed.

Wrong - I was on Glavine 1; I was wrong on Smoltz; Maddux has little gas left, glad they didn’t listen to me. Jury’s out on Hampton, truly! But what have we got to inspire? I can’t say. I want to Jurgens, I like Kotsay…but…bad back, big K, 32 yoa.

Chipper is an anchor, but…his day’s are behind him.

I am going to listen to David Bowies’ “We could be hero’s!.

Oh, gimme shelter!

By Big Winner!

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

rob,

Da, da, da ,daaaaa! Why that is the most ridiculous post of the day. Congratulations!

What does he win?

Rob wins the Homer of the Day award, as well as this old tuna sammich.

Good luck with your blog Rob! and just remember to keep your blogs, on your own blog.

Enjoy the tuna

By DavidD

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

n

By McFann Ô

August 21, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

bfan54—

Aww…C’mon! You’re just jealous ‘cause you weren’t first.

Braveheart McCann was Flyin’ Hawaiianed sounds better than Victorinoed.

Please…I try to refrain from the phrase “Flyin’ Hawaiian”.

By Goodoleboy58

August 21, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

THB

I was simply saying our style of baseball is alot different then the Twins… Not sure how you can argue that

By Roman Gal

August 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

McFann, I’m not very good at booing…it’s a shame I tell ya! I wouldn’t say my voice is high-pitched, but I am a girl so a low sounding word doesn’t get very much trajectory. But I’m not above throwing rotten fruits and veggies his way while everyone else boos…ok, maybe I am…but it’s the experience that counts.

Chipper J I happen to love the city of Atlanta and the Braves.

By Rob

August 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Big