Braves

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

welcome back DOB!!!

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

First?

By Hoosier Aaron

August 19, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

According to some reports - Kotsay cleared waivers.

Anything brewin’?

By Big Easy

August 19, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

for all the Douglas Adams fans out there:

42?

Figures for these Braves. Get killed by the lowly Giants at home. Watch, we’ll probably take 2 of 3 from the Mets at Shea, just to make things interesting (heck, we tend to own the Mets anyway…it is the Phillies we really have trouble with).

~E~

By MurphyRules

August 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Can we get more hard-hitting analysis from the AJC today - something to build on the “Braves still hustling” crap that Moore produced?

When is someone going to ask some tough questions about bad investments (Glavine, Hampton), bad management (the Francoeur demotion was a debacle), bad attitudes (Escobar is going to get killed one of these days) and bad players (Corky Miller, Chris Resop and Chuck James were the best we could do for 4 months?)?

Oh, well. I’m surprised we haven’t read something about this being a “must-win” series with the Mets.

By brent a.

August 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Make it clear to people - fans, media, etc — that ownership has agreed to spend however much more to sign those two, that way you wouldn’t have critics saying all year, if it doesn’t work out either either, how you wasted money you could have spent to fill other needs. Make it clear this was not money that was going to be spent otherwise on payroll, that you made an exception to accommodate two special pitchers. DOB

DOB,

Good blog. It provides some direction and answers some questions. My favorite part was the paragraph above, because I can already hear people next year, if and when one of these two guys takes the mound, and doesn’t have what it takes to be a major league pitcher, fans will go griping and complaining about how “the Braves relied on too many 40-somethings”, and how “money was wasted”, and “money should’ve been spent elsewhere, like on CC Sabathia”.

You should just save this blog, and link to it with regularity throughout the next 12-14 months.

By Andy K.

August 19, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

DOB::Any idea who is going to Richmond to make room for Reyes?

By Billy

August 19, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, JJ was called up from AA last season by the Tigers and his numbers were not as good as Hanson’s AA numbers are. Have you heard anything about the Braves doing the same thing with Hanson? I know they are different people, but JJ turned out OK going that route. I sure would like Hanson to be in the rotation next year.

By Cecil34

August 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

It does appear that many a denizen’s dour predictions of what kind of team this was back in June have come to pass.

Most of the early competiveness was smoke and mirrors, and once the injuries fully manifested themselves, well, the wheels truly fell off.

I myself am shocked at how many games under .500 we actually are. I really thought we were closer to a .500 ballclub.

I was thinking maybe a key aquisition or two would restore competiveness, but I am really starting to believe the Braves need much, much more than that.

I hate to think that Glavine and Smoltz’s end would come so ignominously, but I hope Smoltz has something left in the tank for next year.

I think ol’ Tom has had it. Even if he did not have ligament issues.

A lot of work to do this off-season, and let’s hope Frank Wren and the Braves eat their Wheaties.

Shoot, even blogging about them now has lost it’s luster….

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

MurphyRules, it’s a blog. You don’t like the format, well, sorry it doesn’t suit your tastes.

By Steve from OH

August 19, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

From the last blog….Baseball America wrote an article discussing Schafer’s big night last night and his defensive tools.

By Ned

August 19, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Soo…Dave….i found very interesting your suggestion on bringing Glavine and/or Smoltz….IMO..I’d say NO! to Glavine…we dont need this anymore…if they do bring him back…and Smoltz..in the end…counting on them…then to be heartbroken cause they DIDNT make it back cause of Injuries…we will be seeing this same play for 2009…

they’d have to find a Suitable backup for Chipper Jones, the man is a professional hitter,but wont play more than 120-130 games and those numbers could go significatively down as he gets older…Please DONT DONT!…stop the sentimentalism They will eventually RETIRE ONE DAY..and father time and other things(injuries,etc) are telling us that its RIGHT NOW!….THAT WONT WIN World Series! Liberty Media DONT!…

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

From the last blog’s conversation about Schafer:

All y’all who are tied up in knots over whether Schafer will hit lefties: Get a life!

If he can replicate the secondary numbers he’s put up this season against righties, and he can’t hit lefties at all, then what’s wrong with a platoon involving Infante or some other RH hitter?

It seems like you want to find any reason to give up on the guy before he’s seen his first big league pitch.

The vast majority of ML pitchers are right-handed. Schafer will get plenty of ABs. Give him a shot.

By Billy

August 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Schafer is on fire and driving the ball to all fields lately. He is hitting the ball very well. He is also eligible for the AFL again this winter. Couple that with a month of Spring Training and his play will determine if he is ready or not.

By Flanders

August 19, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

How should i say this delicate…to respond the answer to DOB Blog…

GIVE THEM THEIR OLD-AGE PENSION

BYE BYE Glav…plus he spent 5 seasons elsewhere..its not like he’s the icon Smoltz is…but Smoltz IS coming off major MAJOR surgery..soo…i wouldnt bet on it, if i were you…

By Mike S

August 19, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

DOB - I would bring back not just Glavine and Smoltz but also Hampton with almost identical contracts.

1-2 Mil base salary, with performance incentives if they make the roster, make X number of starts or appearances, wins, ERA etc.

That way the all get to come back and if they make it through Spring uninjured and with acceptable performance it is a bonus for the Braves. IF they cannot perform then it is either a nice retirement ceremony or offer them the option of working in extended Spring training — which also has the benefit of thier experience helping the younger players at that locale.

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

From what I’m reading it says Maddux traded for TWO players to be named later! Since they are in the same division, how would that work? If i traded to the mets I wouldn’t want to rely on the player to be named later, since both are rivals and don’t want the best for each other. Especially with this being Maddog.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

We all should know better then to count out Smoltzie

By john10

August 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

You should see the other Descent, a well reviewed horror movie from the UK..

I remember Frank Wren saying that the team would spend the money from not having a first round pick on other amateur players. According to Baseball America, the team was only 19th in bonus money for the top 10 rounds. The Braves had two significant talents, Cecil Tanner and Michael Palazzone, left unsigned, and it doesn’t appear that they spent more money than usual on international players. What happened??

By NCBravesFan

August 19, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

DOB If Smoltz was able to come back, is starting again on the table for him, or is the thinking he would be limited to being in the bullpen as we was before he went out?

By Carolina Matt

August 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Solid movie choice DOB, both horror and psychological thriller at the same time…The Descent eases the viewers to the edge of a cliff and waits till the very end to push them off.

By fifthbusiness

August 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Great blog today. In summery, the Braves do not have sufficient talent to overcome off years of player and injuries. How do they rebuild? What parts are in the minors and what parts are free agents? Even the Yankees fail. So throwing money is not the answer.

By mark

August 19, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Let me say this first. I absolutely love Smoltz. He is one of my all-time most favorite players. I spent my elementary, middle, and high school years through the 90’s. I have autographs of both him and Glavine. They are sure fire 1st ballot HOF.

That being said, if this franchise is serious about getting back to contending for the next several years, then that plan cannot include Smoltz, Glavine, and especially Hampton. At their age and the money they would command, and the injuries they’ve sustained, you can’t keep them around. When you could have almost 40 million dollars to spend without their salaries, there is no way you can keep them here (as players). It kills me to say that. If the atlanta braves bring any of the 3 of them back then that tells me as a fan that they are not serious about winning.

By Graham

August 19, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

Great blog today!

Make it clear this was not money that was going to be spent otherwise on payroll, that you made an exception to accommodate two special pitchers. DOB

As much as I would like to agree with the above statement and believe that it would satisfy fans, it won’t. You could make it perfectly clear, put it in writing, have it notarized and the President of the United States sign it. The problem is that there will always be those who say “Well, they should have spent that money on younger players” regardless of the fact that it was specifically set aside for Smoltz and Glavine only. Can’t please everybody, no matter how well the point was made. People don’t want to look at other factors (i.e. leadership, etc).

By lewie

August 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

the team’s complete lack of hustle and inability to compete is disheartening(sp?)

we need a lot of help this off season and i’m not sure if we’ll do it…we have had a time where we needed 2SP and 2OF (with one possibly being a 4hole type hitter) in a long time.

i’m not sold on what’s available and i’m starting to think that next season has a very real chance to be even worse than this one.

at least i’ll get to watch the mighty gamecocks upset the bulldogs again

By Ron Roberts

August 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Here’s a stat to breakdown, DOB…

What’s the Braves’ home record since the chopping cow was erected at Turner Field?

By my count, we’re 10-22 at home since the cow arrived.

By Tomahawkin

August 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Honestly I don’t think anything will be set in concrete until after the winter meeting are over. Still a long time til then….

In the Meantime hope these players show up on this roadtrip, because there is nothing I hate more than getting Clowned by the Mets and Cardinals…

Any 411 on whats gonna happen to Mike Hampton after the season…?

By Retch

August 19, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Forget being sentimental. It’s time for Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton and yes even Chipper to go. The 90’s are over.

By Herschel Talker

August 19, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

DOB - way to avoid the real substance behind MurphyRules post. Try answering the important part. You’re deflecting as always.

Counting on Glavine and Smoltz to come back next year would be close to the least of the Braves problems. How about the fact that they fielded one of the worst outfields in years, the second baseman is a clown, and they can’t do any better at backup catcher than Dorky Miller. We should be so lucky next year to be left blaming things only on two over-the-hill starters.

Sometimes I think DOB’s outlook on the Braves is like the stock analysts’ outlook on the banks and mortgages. Reality check time, people.

By Tomahawkin

August 19, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I might get Clowned for this, but would anyone think of Bringing either Smoltz or Glavine back for Cheap and use either one in the bullpen…?

Just a thought but its still way too early to specualte I think, lets just get this season over and lets the Braves F.O. handle their biz in the offseason…

By mark

August 19, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Mike S.- even if you bring back the 3 of them with an incentive based contract you are still wasting roster spots. Are you going to sign some free agent starting pitching that could really help this team, send them to Richmond while we see if these 3 guys can get the job done? That’s the point. Bringing them back even at reduced cost doesn’t really help.

IF you bring them back you are putting your season on the shoulders of 2 40 yr. old guys. 1 will be coming off his 5th arms surgery, the other is coming off elbow problems and MIGHT win you 8 games even if he’s healthy. The other has been on the DL so many times i’ve lost count. He was on the DL at least 3 times this year just trying to come off the DL!!!!!!

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

August 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Interesting.

All we hear from the players is the same lip service, WE LOVE PLAYING FOR BOBBY COX. From what I saw during the four game set against the Giants, the Braves on field play is screaming the exact opposite.

Murphyrules, it is an unwritten rule that all employee’s of the AJC shall not publicly criticize Bobby Cox, no matter how ridiculous the man gets.

While the injury bug has been the main culprit, no one has addressed the poor team management and no one other than myself will. Cox has been brutal and quit frankly, he has become an embarrassment.

Losing three out of four games at home to the lowly Giants speaks volumes. The team has quit and it’s on the head of Bobby Cox. The Atlanta Braves are playing poor baseball, but they aren’t that bad.

Responsibility and credibility are the two code words that seem to have been overlooked in the Braves team handbook. It’s high time for somebody in upper management to address this problem.

By Tomahawkin

August 19, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I agree with Ron Roberts Get rid of that Cheesy Cow, and while we’re at it Burn those Blue Road Jerseys…

Those Blue Road Jerseys has cursed us almost as bad as Jim Leyritz did in 96…

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

The reason I wanted a game-by-game-log for fielding stats, is because I’m keeping track of every game, and am missing a few numbers.

Not obsessing, just don’t want to have to dissect every game to find the numbers if I don’t have to.

Thanks, again.

(And thanks for the new blog, Chief.)

By lewie

August 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

maybe hampton can play LF

at least he can rake….and he’d have to be the shortes starting LF in the game…go for that novelty gig if you’re not going to try to win

By VaBravesfan

August 19, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

In a perfect world, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz would pitch for the Braces forever. Unfortunately it is not a perfect world. I would like to see each one of them retire on their own terms rather than the end be predicated by injuries. I say let them come back if they want, just have a plan B. Hampton also. I met him once, he is a cool dude.

By NCBravesFan

August 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin - I don’t think that’s very respectful of their legacy as players, and in the team’s interests personally. That’s why I’m curious as to whether the surgery Smoltz had has once again opened the door for him to start if he’s able to come back, or if he’s strictly a relief guy now.

‘Cause if it’s the latter, I don’t see the point in bringing him back. Might as well move on as a team, as hard as that prospect is to imagine.

By DAP

August 19, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

as a hypothetical…lets say mike hampton makes 6 more start this year. he goes an average of 6.2 innings per start and puts up a ERA under 3.00. would any of the denizens consider signing him then? dont think about how much he will cost. just decide. would you think about signing him?

my take on glavine and smoltz is that glavine is done, i think he will need surgury, and smoltz is going to pitch some innings from the bullpen next year, effectivly. then he will retire.

By Lew

August 19, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

DOB-Usually, if the work is in color it’s considered a painting (or in black and white, but using paint, called a grisaille). If it’s done with a pencil, charcoal, pen and ink, etc. in black and white, it’s considered a drawing. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason that I can see, but it doesn’t have to be a “wet” medium like paint to be considered a painting-colored pencils or pastels are called paintings. Go figure.

Mississippi Fred must be pretty good if he’s sharing space with the Wurlitzers.

By AdirondackDave

August 19, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Seems to me like the club ought to be in serious rebuilding mode. Smoltz could be part of that I suppose if he’s in the bullpen but it’s gold watch time for Glav, and Hampton should look for opportunities elsewhere. Oddly, Hampton’s probably got a better bat than any of our pinch hitters since Ward. Maybe he could be Ankiel-light.

DOB — If Kotsay goes free agency route do the Braves get a draft pick? Anybody else that might get us free agent draft picks?

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Mcfann.no legs on the mcturtle? Is he hiding?

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Hey, check this out!

The Braves have scored 566 runs, and they’ve allowed 566 runs!

By David-ATL14

August 19, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Solid work DOB.

Great tune also.

Gotay goes to the DL to make room for Reyes.

Coach have you cleard up the Thorman options fiasco yet?

Braves may need your insight into the rules upon Thor’s return from Bejing.

LOL!

By Brad

August 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Sadly, Glavine looks to be done.

Smoltz, it will be a rough road to recovery, but he is determined either way, because he wants to get his strength back to at least be good at golf in his days from baseball.

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog DOB.

I agree. If this team is going to make a serious run, then they need to enter this off season with a serious commitment to rebuild this team. Max out the payroll on players with long, or at least longer, futures. Build the team as if Smoltz and Glavine will not be a part of it. Then, if Smoltz and/or Glavine can be a part of it, make the fair and nice offer. But this team should be built to win from every angle without considering those two. It’s the only fair thing to do for the fans, the franchise, the teammates, and Glavine and Smoltz. No sense building this team with a massive load on their shoulders. Also, should they both believe themselves to be fit to play next season, I’d imagine they’d want to win as well and that would requiring having all the pieces in place to win should these two not be able to contributed fully. So build as if they aren’t in the picture.

That said this team will have a lot it has to address. Wren did a fair job of trading Teixeira at the deadline. I would have loved more in return for the guy, but at least Wren didn’t settle with the worst package available. He has quite a bit of work ahead of him though. I hope he does better this off season than in the past. His free agent signings haven’t been inspiring. There’s Albert Belle and Tom Glavine. Hopefully this season when he decides to sign a “big name player” he picks one with a lot left in the tank. And he’ll have to pick at least one in order to fill all the wholes.
His trades have been pretty good. Though I still think he was shanked by the Aybar deal. Ridgway is atrocious and Aybar would have been of more help on the bench than Gotay.

By BL

August 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

DOB You can’t say that Moore’s article last night was like putting salt on a wound. For me, yesterday’s game was big wound; along with a realization of where things are and where they are headed. I haven’t seen mental errors like that since LaRoche’s gaffe a few years back (lolly gagged to 1st with a grounder and the runner beat him there, then they rattled off like 4 runs). To make your blog title about hustle is almost a slap in the face.

By Braveheart

August 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Retired jerseys belong on a wall, not on a pitcher’s mound. Smoltz and Glavine are old, injured and done.. If they are gonna set aside $10 million they wouldn’t otherwise spend to give Smoltz and Glavine a golden parachute, I’d rather they set aside that $10 million they wouldn’t otherwise spend to overpay for Sabathia. It’s time to move on and move forward. No more preserving something that ended in 2005. Sing it Bono: You’ve got to get yourself together, You’ve got stuck in a moment, And you can’t get out of it, Oh love, look at you now, You’ve got yourself stuck in a moment, And you can’t get out of it

By Renegator

August 19, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe that I actually agree with Coach but he has a valid point at 2:59 PM. The team isn’t as bad as they are playing right now. Where is the accountibility. Where is the pride?

That is the responsibility of the manager. If the players don’t have enough pride to look like major league ballplayers then they need to be benched. Bobby Cox does not hold his players accountable for anything. All he does is make excuses for them.

It’s time for him to man up and have his players play like they want to be in the majors leagues. They currently look like they are going through the motions and collecting a paycheck. That is completely unacceptable and it comes from the top.

If Bobby Cox won’t hold his players accountible for their abyssmal play then we need to find a new manager who will.

By Uncle Johnny

August 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

It’s a sad time to see these two guys go, yet it’s even sadder to see a player try to play beyond his prime.

Chipper is getting close also although he doesn’t have the wear and tear on his body that a pitcher has.

I don’t really know what to say in these two pitchers case. I don’t want them to be embarressed by being released, yet they might be.

Bobby Cox is too loyal to a fault, and that has hurt him when he plays a player beyond the players usefulness.

By Kentavo

August 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

1. How about Smoltz and Glavine in the broadcast booth for ‘09?
2. I’ll second the notion that Chipper needs a real backup, not an out of posiiton, light-hitting middle infielder. Aurilia? Blake?
3. Sign Kot-z as 4th outfielder to platoon w. Frenchy
4. Sign Hampton to minor league deal
5. Trade for Halliday or Oswalt
6. Sign Derek Lowe
7. Sign Adam Dunn
8. See if Giants will give up Randy Winn - he kills us

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Just got to the ballpark. No AC on that E train. Who do I complain to? (What’s that? Go what myself? Oh, OK….

Anyway, BL: What are you talking about, my “blog title.” The headline says nothing about hustle. It says “What to do with Glavine, Smoltz?”…

Lew, you’d approve. This guy’s a pretty significant artist. Young guy (relatively speaking, probably about 40), I don’t even think he realizes how good he is or how much he could get for some of the stuff he does (not that he isn’t getting plenty already — about $500 to $2,000 for most of his pieces….

Herschel Talker, you’ve never had a meaningful post. Ever.

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Yes, Rally McTurtle is hiding a little. He’s sad about this home stand.

It’s not as bad as when he had his legs and head hidden. That was after that last game against the Fillies. It took him a while to recover from that one.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Gotay on DL for bad hammy….

Graham, so true at 2:46. And there’s about a half-dozen commenters already on here today who’ll line up to say precisely what you indicated.

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Baseball Fans be scared: The baseball killing beast has spoken. (no not scott borazz)

Hank Steinbrenner has indicated he is ready to open the wallet. There’s noone i hate more (shane victorino close 2nd) We’re going to win it next year,” Steinbrenner said. “If we need to add a top veteran pitcher, we’ll do that. We’ll do whatever we need to do. Next year we’ll be extremely dangerous” And they have CC’s Picture next to the article! Guess he’s gone cause Liberty Writeoff Media will not fight.

Good luck Wren!!

By davonelson

August 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

I hope everyone and especially management looks back to the first and second year stats of superstars like Glavine and realize that there were struggles. We can’t change the injury situation which wore out the relievers but we can be happy that the rookie starters have a great deal of the schooling they need to excell next year and beyond. Our concern needs to be why our hitting talent seems to have regressed while weaker teams like the Marlins have progressed. Do we have the wrong hitting coach, and does Bobby’s approach allow too much freedom to immature players. It appears Francouer is going in the same downward path that Andrew took and for the same reasons.

By fansince66

August 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Hampton would be less a risk than Glavine or Smoltz next year. However, he has more value as trade bait before the trade deadline this year. Someone, somewhere needs pitching help for the playoffs and maybe we could get a couple of prospects for him like the Padres did for Maddog.

By Daybed Wagmoe

August 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

DOB - Which hotel are you staying at in Manhattan? I’m now a NY resident, starting graduate school in the Chelsea district.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

T-hawkin: As to your point about Smoltz and Glavine, I think Smoltz would probably come back in the bullpen, if by chance he makes it back….

john10, not sure what you’re looking at, but Braves signed all of their top 16 picks. They went “over slot” on a few of them, one guy by $250,000.

By Biff

August 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

LETS GET YOUNGER ! SAY NO TO GLAVINE, SMOLTZ & HAMPTON !

By Uncle Johnny

August 19, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

One big need the Braves have is a true ball bashing lead off hitter. Every team that has scalded the Braves this year has a good lead off player who can steal bases.

I think the team was honked on the Tex. trade. The guy they got must be taking hitting instructios from Frenchy.

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, I also have to agree with others like BL..To make your blog title about hustle is almost a slap in the face BL

the guys were lost yesterday and so was moore-i’m afraid.. That’s why we blog here not at his!!!

By Joe Horn

August 19, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Bye yall

By sri

August 19, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

I think both Dunn/Burrell would sign atleast a 4 year contract this off-season. So if the Braves decide to sign either one of them and they deem Heyward untouchable does that mean 2009 is the last season with the Braves for Frenchy(since most likely Heyward will be in the bigs by 2010)? Or they have to move Heyward to 1st base (or center field, which from the reports he does’nt have the range), which seems unlikely.

I dont think the Braves are ready to give up on Frenchy yet, they will use next year to evaluate their long-term plans with him. I think the Braves will most likely sign Ibanez/Blake for 3 years or acquire a LF (Winn?) by trade.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

I’d rather they set aside that $10 million they wouldn’t otherwise spend to overpay for Sabathia. Braveheart

Huh? I’m missing the logic on that one.

Like I said, you absolutely don’t count on either of them, and because of extremely unusual circumstances — two Braves icons trying to keep pitching — you go over budget, whatever that budget might be, for the only time. Or at least the only time until you have another former Cy Young Award winner and future Hall of Fame pitcher who’s hurt, whose contract has run out, and who wants to try to pitch another season. Don’t think you’re run the gamble of setting a dangerous precedent if you establish that ground rule.

By Kendawg

August 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Glavine is toast. It would be better if Smoltz would retire and let the Braves move on. All the Braves need to compete for a division title is four new starting pitchers, a first baseman with power, a second baseman who can field and hit, three outfielders with power, and a few relief pitchers. With Wren’s acumen, it looks like next year will be another 4th or 5th place finish.

By itwasugly

August 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

The season has been a farce. I am from the Northeast and when the Mets tanked so did Willy. I watched the game yesterday in horror. I couldn’t believe how awful the Braves have become. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes but the boys on the field have no respect for the manager and would not perform like that for a serious manager. Time to uproot the core and the system that no longer works in this generation of players. Speed with timely hitting is what’s lacking. Too many pats on the butt and we will get better speeches. I have become jealous of team like the Rays even the Orioles are trying. What can we call this disaster in Atlanta. Insulting is too cheap! Please DOB. Speak to someone in management and see if there is a chance Bobby will retire and give this team a chance to live again with a new system.!

By Henry

August 19, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Long time, no blog. Been hard to watch this team sink back into the miasma that was the Braves for most of the 70’s and 80’s.

As much as Glav and Smoltz have meant to this team, it’s time to let go and move on.

Question: who is the genius programming music at the Ted? I was at the game Friday night, and when the Braves brought in a reliever (I forget which), they played a great song from the Squirrel Nut Zippers, “In the Afterlife,” from the album “Hell.” That was truly, truly funny. I wondered how many people caught it. Clearly, the team did — they had already abandoned hope, or at least they played like they did.

By BL

August 19, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOB My mistake. Thought you were defending Moore’s blog from last night. I read it wrong.

By Braveheart

August 19, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

The Braves traded Dale Murphy and went to the World Series the next year. The Yankees forced Mattingly to retire and won the World Series the next year. The Red Sox traded Nomar and won the World Series three months later. Bagwell fell apart and the Astros made the World Series anyway. Frank Thomas fell apart and the White Sox made the World Series anyway. The Phillies got rid of Abreu and Thome and won the division the next year. The Mets got rid of Piazza and won the division the next year. The Mariners got rid of Arod, Griffey and Randy Johnson and won 116 games. The Twins got rid of Johan Santana and are still in contention this year. The Red Sox got rid of Manny and might win the Series anyway. The As get rid of everyone and keep winning.

Teams sometimes win when they push icons and greats out the door. The woeful performance of this team should be liberating for Wren. It should give him the excuse to be his own man and shut the door on Cox, Smoltz and Glavine. The way Cox undermined Wren during the Francoeur demotion debacle of a holiday weekend should give Wren the right to say I’m building a team of the future and Bobby you are not a part of this team’s future. I already had my time as a GM in Baltimore ruined by an owner who undermined me. I can’t fire an owner who undermines me but I can fire a manager who undermines me. Wren needs to be his own man and sink or swim with his own men and not be drowned by the men he inherited.

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

BTW—-is there something wrong with the blog’s bold or is it my computer??

lmao at Mcfann

By Run Heap Run

August 19, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

I CANT BELIEVE IT! Bigfoot was a hoax! http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/bigfoot.hoax/index.html

What next? Frenchy’s BA goes above .250?!?

By MurphyRules

August 19, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

A little clarification: My post was not a dig at all at DOB. He does absolutely fine work here on the blog, and I wouldn’t dare criticize his work. I also understand that it’s not a beat reporter’s job to opine (at least in the newspaper) on the organization’s bad decisions.

No, that’s a job for the columnists, none of whom seem to have the tiniest inclination to criticize or question management. For the record, I don’t believe asking tough questions will change anything. It’s just that I expect it from the main newspaper in town.

At the very least I expect something better than the “Braves still hustling” crap that Moore offered up - but it seems to be the norm.

By fifthbusiness

August 19, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Just wondering does anybody know the rate of failure of big ticket free agent pitchers? I can think of Zito, Hampton, Brown, and Schmidt who were pretty bad in the last few years.

By DAP

August 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

DOB is there a place we can go and look at info on the top 16 draft picks? im interested to see who we got, and i havent heard anything about it.

By Jeff R

August 19, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Glavine’s done. He’s had a great career, but it’s over. Smoltz may have a little more gas to come back and relieve next season, but that, of course, is far from certain.

Basically, Glavine and Smoltz become distractions in ‘09. Look, if management would be willing to go over-budget to sign these two, why not go over budget to apply the money toward younger - and at this point - better pitching talent?

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

fifthbusiness

Add Carl Pavano to that list

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

That says a lot that you take the feelings of McTurtle so lightly…

; )

By BL

August 19, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

davonelson 3:46 Except for that, I don’t know, gain 80 pounds thing coupled with an inner desire to play for the circus catch (which he made frequently).

I agree with not making adjustments all year but give JF some time. ML pitching isn’t to kind to guys trying to rebound with their swing.

Besides, thanks to DOB’s blog, it appears to be a team wide issue. -They scored just 22 runs during the 1-6 homestand that ended Monday, and get this: Half of those runs came in one win against the Giants, and seven came in an 11-7 loss to the Cubs. The Braves totaled just four runs in the other five games on the homestand. Astonishing. -Throw in the loss at Arizona to end the last trip, and the Braves have lost seven of their past eight games, batting .244 and scoring one or nor runs in five of those eight games.

By BL

August 19, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t care how bad the season is, beating the Mets (somehow) never gets old!

By southbeachdietfreak

August 19, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

N Nine

It’s not just you… mine has the same issue.

I think as painful as it will be, Smoltz is done on the field. I would like to see him as a full-time announcer (I haven’t had a chance to hear him yet, but I’ve read all the rave reviews here). I also think Glavine is done. Both have obviously been a huge part of the Braves’ success over the years, but it can’t last forever.

On a separate topic, DOB, if you have a chance to take a train over to Brooklyn, there’s a restaurant called Bamonty’s. Very high-end, but very good Itailian restaurant. Went there when I visited NY in ‘99. Also there’s a shot of it in “Goodfellas”. Hey, if it’s good enough for a mob movie, it must be darn good!!

By J-Dubb

August 19, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

I’m suprised at all the people calling for Smoltz and Glavine to retire. I for one hope they both return and can be effective. Really Smoltz more than Glavine(I hate the Mets). You people act as if Sabathia, Sheets, and Lowe have already signed a Braves contract. Don’t you think the other teams, especially big spenders, are going to go after them hard? You might be glad to have a Smoltz or a Glavine returning next year! Geez! Lets just spit on Hammerin Hank Aaron while we’re at it!

By Reality Based

August 19, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Maddux WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE—Sorry for the Caps, but that you can continue to perpetuate this jock sniffing homage is mind boggling. Teams look forward to facing the physique challenged right hander. he is DONE. Not as DONE as the cutesy little lefthander/union agitator from Billerica but done just the same. smoltz is not really done. He is just Cervantes like if he chooses to come back and pitch for a moribund franchise that is destined to be picked no higher than 4th going into next year.

By the way, could someone run a program to determine if there has been a more unproductive high average year than that put up by the silly litttle guy with the child’s nickname—Larry jones??

By Dosomething

August 19, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Everyone that keeps complaining about the Braves need to ask themselves, ” Am I a Braves fan or not?” This season has been terrible I agree but not every team is going to win year after year. Management does need to make several changes. If they do or don’t make the changes fans will still pay to see the Braves play. I am surprised they have not tried to get Maddux back. Where has Mike Gonzo been?

By southbeachdietfreak

August 19, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

BL

Right on, brother!! GO BRAVES!

By southbeachdietfreak

August 19, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

reality based…

I hope you’re a Mets fan. I certainly wouldn’t think that would come out of the mouth of a Braves’ fan.

By the way, Cervantes, the little union rep from whereever, yeah they’re Cy Young award winners. And that silly little guy’s been knocking around Met’s pitchers like a rag doll for years… I think I’ve made my case. Sorry, but there’s still time for the Mets to collapse. My prediction? Braves and Mets will play their last game on the same day in ‘08. Later!!

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Beating the Mets is a thing of beauty.

But let’s not count our runs before they score…

By MurphyRules

August 19, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

“Where has Mike Gonzo been?” Dosomething

Umm, hello. You actually have to be WINNING to bring in your closer!

By Christy

August 19, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Hello everyone. Slightly off topic…

DOB - just got back from a trip to D.C. where I caught an Nationals game against Colorado.

I can’t remember what your general reaction was, but for myself, aside from the fact that they baseball game itself was not exactly scintillating and the admittedly terrific access to the Metro I was underwhelmed - it has no personality - which is truly disappointing considering the location and what they could have done.

Maybe I’ve gotten spoiled by some of the other parks I’ve been to, but it’s the nation’s capitol… they couldn’t have come up with something a bit better? Especially when they have Camden Yards an hour a way to compare to???

Anyway, after that game, as disappointing as the Braves are lately, I determined I would still rather sit through a bad Braves game than a good Nationals game.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 19, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

McFann

Maybe somehow we could convince teh team that they’re really in AZ! Dunno, just a thought.

By fifthbusiness

August 19, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Pavano is a great one. AJ Burnett for the blue jays, Randy Johnson for the Yankees, and you could even put Pedro on the list for the Mets. Long term contracts for starting pictures appears to be a sucker bet.

By flange1

August 19, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Great new blog! Well though out response to the Glavine/Smoltz situation next year.

One hates to cut and run on folks that have helped build a franchise but on the other hand, it does the franchise no good to overpay for no performance.

I am glad that I am not in FWren’s shoes!

Acquiring the talent the Braves need to get back into the thick of things is going to be difficult. Many tough decisions will have to be made about whom to keep and whom to trade.

This will be the most important and difficult off season the Braves have faced in MANY years. Just trying to think of the last time they had so many needs……

By notell

August 19, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to trade Chipper for a quality starting pitcher. Do not count on Smotz, Glavine, and Hampton in the rotation next year. Release Sammons and Norton. Trade or sign a power hitting out fielder. Let’s see what the pitching corp look like in the minor league for the remaining of the season.

By Blaine Boyer is a big vat of goo

August 19, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer has infected the entire Braves team with his gooeyness. Especially the starting pitchers. Pure goo.

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

southbeachdietfreak—

It’s worth a shot…

Does that include McCann taking out David Not wRight as Mac steals third?

; ) JK, of course.

By Hoosier Aaron

August 19, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

DOB-

According to the Braves official MLB.com site - we signed 14 of our first 16 draft picks.

It has these two guys as “unsigned”:

Jacob F. Thompson - Round 5

James A. Hoover - Round 10

By coocoo birdfan

August 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Pretty dark comments as well. Stats dont lie, but you should stick with sports not movies. Rosario Dawson isnt in the Descent jackass.

By coocoo birdfan

August 19, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Pretty dark comments as well. Stats dont lie, but you should stick with sports not movies. Rosario Dawson isnt in the Descent jackass.

By coocoo birdfan

August 19, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Pretty dark comments as well. Stats dont lie, but you should stick with sports not movies. Rosario Dawson isnt in the Descent jackass.

By john10

August 19, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

The Braves did go over slot on several players, but nothing out of the ordinary, as they usually give over slot bonuses to several players. According to Baseball America figures, they only spent about $700,000 total over the slot recommendations. That’s about 1 million short of the bonus they would have given a first rounder. It’s disappointing to see clubs like the Nats, A’s, Rays, Royals, and Indians give bonuses over a million dollars to their later picks while the Braves let top talents like Tanner and Palazzone-their 36th and 18th round picks—get away. Also, unlike previous years, the Braves aren’t spending a million or so on draft and follow players like when they signed Hanson, Tyler Flowers, Brandon Jones, Rohrbough, et al.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Christy,

Haven’t been to Nats stadium yet but a longtime friend from metro DC recently came out for a visit and he’s been there several times.

He has always been and remains an Orioles fan, BTW, and from what he’s read the Nats consciously tried to not make a new version of Camden Yards. Because the surrounding neighborhood hasn’t had time to build up with restaurants, museums, bars, etc., when you go to Nats stadium, the ballpark is the show. And from what he told me, it ain’t much.

Could get better when there are other places in the neighborhood to see, but they aren’t there yet.

By Steve from OH

August 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Hoosier Aaron, Thompson and Hoover both signed. Thompson was a consensus 1st rounder going into the season, too, but his stock slipped a bit.

By Mike

August 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks we’re going to outbid the Yanks for CC is crazy.

By Barrington Garland

August 19, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

DOB, YOU’RE A COMPLETE WUSS! YOU NEVER ADDRESSED COACH’S COMMENTS. HE IS ABOUT THE ONLY PERSON I SEE WHO POSTS ON THIS BLOG THAT IS LOGICAL. BOBBY COX HAS TO BE LET GO. THIS TEAM IS GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS AND YOU HAVEN’T CRITICIZED THE MANAGER ONCE. ARE YOU SCARD? YOU PROBABLY WILL DELETE MY POST, YOU JERK.

By Novice Ned

August 19, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

I’d rather offer Hampton a 2-year deal at $5M per year (with incentives based on innings pitched), than see the Braves bring back Glavine. Whatever Smoltz wants to do is fine with me (within reason), but let’s get on with the re-building.

By gayle

August 19, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Props to Braveheart @ 356pm. He said exactly what I was thinking. Successful teams make the tough decisions and usually benefit from it.

Sometimes, the Braves seem less like a team as much as a museum piece playing in an amusement park disguised as a stadium.

For whatever reason, there is an obsession to hang on to the past and an inability to do what is necessary to move forward.

What’s happening now is not just the result of this year with turnover and injuries, but it is more like several years finally coming home to roost.

You’ve got a combination of some over the hill players with some solid veterans mixed in with some AAA players and managed by a group that should be participating in walker races at a nursing home.

And to top that off, you have a local media who act as enablers (reference TM’s work yesterday).

Put all that together and you have a team and an organization that is destined for mediocraty for a few years to come.

Sending Smoltz, Glavine and Bobby on their way will be a painful thing to do, but like a bandaid, isn’t it better to pull it right off rather than dispose of it slowly and feel the agony over a long period of time?

By semiballcoach

August 19, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

don’t sign dunn….need a righty in case franceour doesn’t bounce back…

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

I think Smoltz could teach himself to pitch left handed in the off-season and be better then some of the guys we’ve ran out of the bullpen this year…

By Carolina Matt

August 19, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

haha, Goodoleboy, I have no doubt

By gayle

August 19, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton, Barry Zito, Johann Santana - all starting pitchers who received multiyear, 100+ million dollar contracts.

While the jury is still out on Santana, I think the wisdom of the Hampton and Zito signings are obvious.

But we have all seen that owners are their own worst enemy and no matter how history has proven such moves wrong - or at least highly dubious - both Sheets and Sabbathia will no doubt be rewarded with similar deals this winter.

Even if the Braves had the money to spend - and they very well might - what kind of idiot will go into another Hampton deal right after getting out of one? It is a move of despiration.

This team has so many holes that any discussion of outbidding the Yankees or Red Sox for Sabbathia or Sheets is just foolish. This team needs an overhaul - much much more than signing an ace will get you.

By Now on DVD

August 19, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Descent (2007)

In the wake of a violent rape that leaves her shattered and emotionally destroyed, a star college student (Rosario Dawson) with a once-promising future descends into a downward spiral of depression, drug abuse and promiscuity. Talia Lugacy directs this Tribeca Film Festival selection that explores what happens when the victim ultimately gets the chance to exact revenge upon her attacker (Chad Faust).

By The Truth

August 19, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

JOHN10

THANK YOU!!!

YOUR 5:08 PM POST WAS BRILLIANT.

By Anders

August 19, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

DOB at 3:37

Just got to the ballpark. No AC on that E train. Who do I complain to? (What’s that? Go what myself? Oh, OK….

Yep, DOB’s back in town. Here come all the subway, chop shop and rude New Yorker’s rants. You know if you really feel the need to share your New York City experiences outside the ballpark with your readers how about sliding in something worthwhile and positive once in a while? I mean, 8 million people can’t possible voluntarily live in the purgatory you make NYC out to be.

BTW- As for someone telling you to go …. yourself on the subway, my guess would be that it was John Rocker - another guy from the south who came to NYC with an open mind.

By Blaine Boyer supports Bob Dole?

August 19, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

haha, Goodoleboy, I have no doubt

Goodoleboy = Goo Dole Boy

By Ander's Mom

August 19, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Son, stop blogging and come upstairs.

There are cockroaches all over the place again! They’re even in the cornflakes. Bring a shoe and start wacking.

By Chop Chop

August 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

“I’d rather offer Hampton a 2-year deal at $5M per year (with incentives based on innings pitched), than see the Braves bring back Glavine.”

Novice Ned, I’d rather not.

In addition, jumpin’ Jehosephat!!! $5 million a year?!?!? Based on what???

That’s almost as bad of an idea as DOB wanting to avoid bad PR by setting aside millions of dollars beyond budget to pay two guys (that’s two men on your 25-man roster, folks) who were a hugely important part of the Braves’ glory days.

DOB, how many fans do you think would see red if Glavine and Smoltz aren’t brought back next year? Don’t you understand that most Braves fans just want to get back to winning ballgames? Don’t you know that they will not be comforted by having sure-fire Hall of Famers coming off major arm surgeries struggle on the mound? Don’t you know that we’ve already had to come to terms with the fact that this team is not what it once was? Don’t you know that this is why I (and others) are willing to see Bobby Cox retire? Don’t you know that it has nothing to do with a negative view of these Hall of Famers, but everything to do with trying to win sooner than later?

In a perfect world, the Braves would have a 30-man roster and could afford to have two old guys around for people to point at and say, “That’s a Hall of Famer right there.” Unfortunately, the Braves don’t have that luxury.

Don’t get me wrong, DOB. I appreciate what you’re saying, but it makes absolutely no sense. If you were Braves’ GM, you wouldn’t sign those two guys to multi-million dollar deals for next season. You’d move on. If some fans don’t like it, well, some fans don’t like anything.

(Plenty of ‘em are here every damn day.)

By Herschel Talker

August 19, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

DOB - apparently it was meaningful enough for you to answer. In any event, very classy of you to censor my post on Skip Caray. Wouldn’t seem to fit in with your liberal points of view. Anyway, I am not ashamed to say that he was a jerk. Rest his soul, and I hope his family is coping well with his passing, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was an arrogant jerk to many that he encountered. Everyone on the blog had a lovefest with him like people have lovefests with actors and actresses. They loved Skip the broadcaster and act like they know Skip the man. Two completely different things. Just listen to how he treated people on his pregame show, just because he didn’t want to recalculate the ERA for the umpteenth time or explain the infield fly rule. Skip Caray - a true jerk.

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

John10: Also, unlike previous years, the Braves aren’t spending a million or so on draft and follow players like when they signed Hanson, Tyler Flowers, Brandon Jones, Rohrbough, et al.

I don’t think teams can “draft and follow” any more.

All Drafts picks have until August 15th to come to terms with the MLB Team that drafted them. The new ‘universal signing date’ replaces the ‘draft and follow’ process this year. In the past, teams held the rights to players attending Junior College until the following spring.
— (MyMLBDraft)[http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Draft-Date]

This would explain why they didn’t spend as much money on the draft and follow. The draft rules changed recently. It used to be a team could have pretty much until the next years draft to sign a draftee. Now they have until mid August or else the player goes into the draft again.

By New York Sucks

August 19, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

I feel like 8 million people would choose to live in purgatory if they were getting paid enough/had family there/like being around lots of people.

By Ratzo Rizzo

August 19, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

8 million people can’t possible voluntarily live in the purgatory you make NYC out to be.

It’s poverty or insanity that keeps them there.

I can’t wait to get out of here and go to Florida.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer

The Goo this is not funny at all

By Bobby's Cox

August 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Great post at 3:56.

I’m still thinking of that bet. Lol, not really, but i’m still not sold on johnson.

Again, great post. Someone, anyone, on this team needs to grab the bull by the horns. Might as well be the GM.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Anders: Purgatory? Rude New Yorker rants?

Uh, I said there was no a.c. on the E train. And the other thing, that was a hypothetical conversation. No one actually said anything like that to me.

A lot of sarcasm and such kinda goes over your head, doesn’t it, Anders? Poor guy. Lighten up, son.

By Anders

August 19, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Smoltz, Glavine and even Cox are easy decisions in my book. They’re done. The hard decision is wether to move Chipper for some real pitching and another position player. According to DOB Chipper is open to it if that’s what mgt wants to do. Most on here will go into rabid convulsions just at the thought of it but many bigger players than Chipper have been moved. I just don’t see the value for either side in him hanging around a couple of years waiting for the team to rebuild and let’s be honest, based on what you’ve seen this year there is no way this team is a contender next year unless they open up the vault and spend Yankee like.

By Metropolitan Man

August 19, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Are you guys still talking Baseball here or is this the “nothing is going right and the injuries wont stop blog”? Looking forward to the 2nd to last series at Shea against the braves. Should make for good tv anyway. Booby loves to get his team a hard on when facing the METS while the METS try to make the playoffs. I know how much the braves and their fans would love to see the braves “thump” us good, but after last year you guys will see a team that doesn’t take not ONE game for granted anymore. Now if we could just borrow Gonzo from you guys for the stretch run, everything would be just “PEACHY” in the BIG APPLE! I got your response KC, I will be contacting you and will take it easy since your old fogies broke down worse than any team in the league this year.

By MGL

August 19, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

To the idiot that spouts all the Blaine Boyer nonsense - Why don’t you go down to the park and say that to his face so that he can plant a 95mph fastball between your eyes? Or did you do that already and that is the reason you act like a 3rd grader.

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Sheeesh. Got that syntax backwards. I guess I’m getting rusty in my reduced blogging state.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

DOB-

According to the Braves official MLB.com site - we signed 14 of our first 16 draft picks.

It has these two guys as “unsigned”:

Jacob F. Thompson - Round 5

James A. Hoover - Round 10

Hoosier Aaron

Hoosier Aaron, this is from a story that ran on the Braves’ mlb.com site (only pointing it out, since you referenced the site):

By the end of Friday night, after signing J.J. Hoover, a junior college right-handed pitcher from Calhoun Community College (Ala.) who was taken in the 10th round, Clark had signed each of his first 16 selections.

By Herschel Talker

August 19, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man - how ‘bout that collapse against the Phils last year? You turkey.

By DCDave

August 19, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

FODOBs,
Live in DC, the Nats park, while far better than the beast of RFK, comes up way short of what it could have been. Camden, except for the part about putting money in the pocket of Baseball’s Worst Owner, is far superior. Sadly, the Nats failed to capitalize on the unique views surrounding the park, when they had the gem that is PNC to model after. Sitting in anything but the nosebleed seats, you would never know what city you were in - a testament to the corporate soul. At least until you paid the concession prices - the IRS must have the franchise.

DOB, thanks for keeping us ex-pats engaged with the Team. Take heart, folks! This season’s uglier than leaving with Beyonce & waking up with Erk Russell, but this team is a long way from the Biff Pocoroba/Pascuel Perez days. No offense intended to those gents, but, unless Knucksie was pitching, you looked forward to WTBS’ commercial breaks in those Dark Ages.

By Anders

August 19, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

DOB

But — and here’s the important part — they (ownership/management) would, ideally, be willing to go over their proposed budget by whatever amount it would take to sign Smoltz and/or Glavine. In other words, if it’s $5 mill, or $7 mill (just tossing out figures), or whatever if they make the major league roster, then that’s on top of the payroll you’re planning to spend to formulate next year’s roster.

Yeah, because Braves management has been so forthcoming about all their payroll budgets and all. We could all just take them at their word that they’re spending more than they would have just to keep the two favorite uncles of the organization in the fold.

It’s not too late to save face and delete that paragraph from your blog and if anyone who refers to it just claim they’re lying. You know, say they’re from NYC - that always seems to work when you want to disparage someone or someplace.

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Whoa! MetMan! Long time, no read!

(Big time eye roll)

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Pretty dark comments as well. Stats dont lie, but you should stick with sports not movies. Rosario Dawson isnt in the Descent jackass.coocoo birdfan

Then you should tell Amazon.com to stop selling this movie by that name with her starring in it:

ttp://www.amazon.com/Descent-Original-Version-Rosario-Dawson/dp/B000VE4UQA

By mr baseball

August 19, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

If Glavine and/or Smoltz are willing and able to pitch next Spring, the Braves should give them a shot with one stipulation. Neither one gets a guaranteed penny or a roster spot.

If either can still pitch, when April comes around the Braves can offer an incentive-laden contract with next to no guaranteed money. If they find that insulting, too bad. The Braves will spend maybe $18 million on them this season for very minimal results. Both of them know that, even if they would rather not admit it.

If Smoltz and/or Glavine don’t care for that arrangement, let them explore their options. I’m sure other teams will be lined up to offer them a better deal.

The same applies to Hampton, although some other team may be dumb enough to offer him a real contract. None of the 3 deserve more than a teeny tiny fraction of the team’s payroll, which will be strapped to add the big bat in LF and a front line starter the Braves so desperately need.

Don’t envy the position Wren is in. Just as he did in his later years with the Royals, Schuerholz has done some real damage to this franchise with a number of trades that simply did not pan out, and the farm system is seemingly devoid of near major league ready power hitters.

This team could be decent next year, but not much more than that. There is some talent on hand, but without a legit cleanup hitter (BMac is a #5 kinds guy) to protect Chipper and a leadoff hitter who can get on base AND hit, offense is going to be a concern.

The pitching looks much worse, which is why the Braves should entertain thoughts of giving their geezers one last look, provided they understand they have to prove they can actually still pitch before the team reaches into its wallet.

It would be nice if the Braves had someone else in the dugout, but that is not very likely. Coach (I am such an idiot) is right that Cox needs to go, but beyond that, he contributes about as much to the discussion as Dan Quayle did during his 4 years as veep.

The Braves need a manager who knows how to best utilize the personnel he has, not the personnel he wishes he had (see Tony LaRussa), and can actually make decisions that give his team its best chance to win.

He’s had to deal with a deck stacked against him this season. But I think it’s become pretty clear that whatever ability Cox had to coax a winning effort out of past teams is gone. The Braves need some fresh blood with a working intellect as manager, not someone whose most obvious attributes are nose-picking, cheerleading and getting ejected.

Pendleton is another matter, and he should not be asked back in the same capacity. Just remember how well the team did the last time it unloaded him.

It’s sad to watch the deterioration of this team, but things have been gradually trickling downhill for the Braves since Spring Training of 1997 before picking up speed after the ‘05 season.

Three seasons in a row with no post-season in Atlanta and no serious prospects of a return to the playoffs any time soon.

Hard to take after the previous 15 seasons. We’re finally getting a look at how most of the other half lives and it ain’t very pretty.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

I asked Soriano about his throwing program, and he said he’s just starting it today. Cox said Soriano was sick all during the homestand, had the stomach virus that a bunch of other Braves ended up getting.

Dude has been a mess this year, between injuries, sickness …

By p

August 19, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

smoltz, glavine, hampton?

cut them, have an appreciation day, don’t look back.

By Dadgum

August 19, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Glavine has been just an average starter at best. It is unfortunate in this year of unbelievable bad luck that Glavine is seeing Andrews. Hey do the Braves get a discount? Anyway, the news is sure to be ugly and my guess is Glavine retires this week. I think the Braves will do something ceremonious for Glavine. Either this year or next.

Smoltz…may not be done but I don’t see him returning to a Braves team that is looking several years away from being a top contender. I see Smoltz and Glavine and Hampton for that matter all retiring after this year.

The Braves want to treat all with dignity due to their service but no way they tie up a roster spot on any of them. They simply are not serviceable pitchers any longer. Baseball leaves everyone at some point. They are in their 40’s with a ton of wear and tear. I guess it is their time. Hudson is still a big question mark for ‘10 as well. Should still have a couple good years left after surgery. Maybe. We hope.

Carolina BBQ…off the Selma/Dunn exit on 95. Simply wonderful. Great Q, chicken, livers, sweet tea. Manager I talked to said he came from Parkers in Greenville. DOB knows that joint. Can’t hide that great food. By the way wasn’t able to hit Dick’s Hot Dog Stand in Wilson on the way to the beach. Maybe on the way back.

Rock on……surfs up!!

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

I hope you know I was joking with my 4:16.

All in good fun, man!

By Chop Chop

August 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

“I (and others) are willing…”

That was a good typo by me.

And I left out the fact that Glavine and Smoltz are old in that “as bad an idea as” paragraph.

By DonCoburleone

August 19, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

This team clearly has a TON of work to do in the offseason if they want to be competetive again in 2009. Glavine and Smoltz? DOB Can’t we just wait and see how they are pitching in the middle (or late part) of the regular season and then sign them to a contract for the rest of the year? (Ala Roidger Clemens’ did with the Yankees a few years ago?). I mean, that for sure would work with Smoltz right? (I mean, there is no way the man is going to be ready to pitch in March right?).

Also DOB, I know Chipper is great when he plays, but do you think that his constant in/out of the lineup with random TINY injuries hurts this team overall? I mean how can an offense be consistently good when their best hitter is consistently out of the lineup? Do you think it may lead other players on the team to try and do too much and that is why this offense scores either 0-2 runs or 10-12?

By CMC

August 19, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What is your Top 5 when it comes to eateries in the Big Apple?

As for the State of the Braves, I have not posted here for awhile but have read daily the rants of the many frustrated Braves fans, true and fair weather, over what has been a truly forgettable season. As a longtime true Braves fan, it intrigues me what this team will do during the offseason to right the ship.

At times I think that a few tweaks here and there may bring them back to contention in 2009. After this past weekend’s debacle against a poor Giants team at home, I wonder if it will take more.

Will two starters and a power hitting outfielder cure our ills? Who knows. I simply wonder out loud if the young core that we have now is going to get it done. Other than McCann and Jurrjens, there aren’t any untouchables in my opinion. Time for some of these young guys to produce or get out.

What troubles me most about this team is that it is so unsound fundamentally and appears to be lifeless on most occasions. As much as I admire #6 in the dugout and what he has done over the years, these two issues are on him and his staff. The one-run losses on the road could be cut in half with a better fundamental approach - getting the runner from second to third with less than 2 outs, throwing to the right base to prevent runs on the other side, etc. Combine this with the lack of fire in that dugout, and this team is simply dull.

My hope is that Frank Wren can perform a personality transplant during the winter.

By William

August 19, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

I think Glavine is DONE. At least I hope the Braves don’t consider bringing him back. Hopefully we have learned a lesson about counting on 40 somethings to anchor the pitching rotation. Glavine wasn’t very effective before the injury bug bit him. I can see Smoltz being effective in a limited capacity in the bullpen. Please for the love of God don’t tell me we are going to bring Hampton back, even though I must admit he hasn’t looked bad. I can see maybe bringing him back for the league minimum and contract full of incentives. I love Chipper Jones and I think he’s one of the greatest pure hitters of all time, but it’s seems like he is day to day year around. I say trade him for some pitching and start building a young pitching rotation around Jair Jurrgens. That’s my two cents….

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Anders: Let me get this straight, DOB can’t comment on NYC as a visitor, and I can’t comment on Anaheim as a resident. Is that how it works?

As for your state of the Braves…
First: Trading Chipper would result in acquiring Not-Chipper. He’s the best 3B in the league. The sure fire return in any Chipper trade is not the best 3B in the league. This team has other players who’d be more movable and wouldn’t result in a massive drop off in production at the position yet would still acquire adequate enough talent in return to form a competitive team.
Second: there aren’t that many good FA available on the market to form a single team, so spending “Yankee like money” wouldn’t return on-field production for the dollar.
Third: This team is already shedding the contracts of Glavine, Hampton, and Smoltz at seasons end. There are others as well, but those three alone account for 37 million off the books (less if you arrange Hampton’s contract differently). This team has the money to spend on the 1 or two players it needs to acquire via free agency. This team has the depth to trade for a few other players to fill the rest of the holes.
Fourth: “Yankee Like Money” was not spent on the Devil Rays, Brewers, Twins and Diamondbacks, and they’re all doing fine.
Fifth: Thank you for caring so much about the Braves.

By Original Jon

August 19, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

coocoo birdfan Dont you feel like a total, what was it that you called DOB, oh thats right, a JACKASS?

Here’s the link, IDIOT.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4266169088/tt0463027

By Anders

August 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

DOB Yeah, I got the hypothetical.

My answer was in like sarcasm sharp guy. I mean, you didn’t think I actually thought you ran into John Rocker on the subway - did you?

Your continuos attempt to make like I can’t keep up with your supposed superior intelligence and wit is sad.

By Original Jon

August 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Oh, and another Jackass, he didnt say The Descent, he clearly said Descent.

By Metropolitan Man

August 19, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Herschel Talker- Last year is just that, last year. The philthies have felt the METS wrath so far this year and they are not fading in the standings, but they are fading as a “team”. Rollins has already pulled a Rey Ordonez and insulted the philthie fans of all people. So if they dont make the playoffs, look for Rollins to be looking for another team which would just kill whatever they had going in philly.

Mcfann: Hello right back athca. You know this is one of my favorite series to watch during the season no matter what the standings are currently looking like. METS VS braves has too much history ( and not just from 1992-the present either) for me to turn a blind eye. I just want my METS to finish the braves off at SHEA to close out the stadium on a high note agaisnt a team that doesnt look anything like the 91-2005 teams.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Anders,

The Braves aren’t that far away from being competitive in 2009 but I’ll admit they will need to be both creative and lucky to pull it off.

They need Johnson and Escobar to bounce back from what were arguably sophomore slumps (KJ’s second year at 2B). I think some of Escobar’s regression is due to his shoulder injury but we won’t know until he’s had an offseason to heal.

Francouer has to turn it around. Kotchman basically has to replicate his minor-league production and he’ll be fine.

Then they need to add a legit power threat in LF (Burrell?) and a bench bat or two.

Pitching seems easier to fix by throwing money at one starter. They can’t compete for Sabathia unless CC would take a 3 year/$75 MM deal with a couple of option years. I don’t see that happening.

Sheets may be gettable for 3 years plus an option for a lot less, of course.

Problem is, the Yankees are likely to open the vault and the Braves won’t outbid them.

If so, you have to go after guys like Dempster or Perez and not overpay. That’s where luck is involved, because the FA market this year is really front-loaded. After CC and Sheets and Manny and Burrell and Dunn, it’s pretty shallow.

I’d rather see Wren be active in the trade market — possible trade partners = Oakland (Duchscherer), Florida for arms and/or bats, the Rockies for bats, the Rays for arms?

That takes luck, too, and finding the right fit.

If the Braves could add Sheets and Burrell and, say, Scott Olsen, they’d be in very good shape in ‘09. Of course, a lot of other teams could say the same thing.

By Birdman

August 19, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

It’s time to change the name of this team from the “Braves” back to the “Doves”.

The “Pigeons” would also work nicely.

By DonCoburleone

August 19, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB for bringing up Soriano and reminding me that he is signed for next season at $6+mil after STEALING $3mil this year… Its tough to blame Wren for that one coming off the season Soriano had in ‘07, but it still stinks…

By Metropolitan Man

August 19, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, if you are a pizza lover, definately try Margherita’s Pizza on 165 and Jamaica Avenue when you get a chance…its right on the corner. You can also do some shopping on the strip (stop in Modells) and pick you up a METS hat. I know how much you love that city, you dont have to hide it anymore.

By PABravefan

August 19, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: WE have signed those to that you listed as unsigned. Bill Shanks had articles about each signing on braves.scout.com. So we did sign all 16. Just thought you would like to know. Hoover was a last minute signing. I believe Thompson was about a week before, but I could be wrong.

By Greg

August 19, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien, You are correct about the Rosario Dawson movie, “Descent”. One of your readers got that movie mixed up with another recent movie called “The Descent”, and decided to call you a “jackass”, because of his confusion.

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: Problem is, the Yankees are likely to open the vault and the Braves won’t outbid them

Open the vault? They have 88 million in FA contracts freeing up this coming off season.

the even-richer-than-usual Yankees, who not only have $88 million in contracts coming off the books but a new stadium bringing in untold riches
—SI Jon Heyman

The vault need only remain as open as it already is. They could sign Teixeira, CC and Sheets at 20 million each and still reduce payroll.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

I am listening to, without question, the worst pregame performer I’ve ever heard at any ballpark. It’s “Caribbeat” night here, that’s the theme. And they have this guy with an island accent of some sort absolutely SCREAMING a cover of “We Are the Champions.” Simply tragic. Worse than your worst, drunken karaoke performer. And it’s incredibly loud.

On a brighter note, the weather’s turning gorgeous. Temp’s dropping and high in the low 70s and sunny next two days. Got to make myself get up to take a run in Central Park tomorrow morning.

By Murphy

August 19, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Good Blog. I think we all agree the management has money to spend like never before and as fans we all want to see good things happen with that money, but I love the idea of also honoring the guys that got us here. Some of you idiots seem to not be able to grasp that those are two very different objectives…probably why you are typing on a blog and not in Frank Wren’s shoes.

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

MetMan—

Oh, I like these series, too (usually, wink wink). Just messin’ with ya.

There’s a lot of history in these two teams for sure. It’s always fun…I look forward to watching them play the Mets (most of the time), whereas I dread them playing the Fillies a few weeks in advance.

Just a few more minutes…I’m so glad this game doesn’t start at 7:30.

GO GET ‘EM, HO—er…JO-JO!!

By Braveheart

August 19, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

We got to get out from under the Bruce Sutter contract.

Bruce Sutter, a free-agent relief pitcher, AND THE ATLANTA BRAVES REACHED AGREEMENT TODAY ON A SIX-YEAR CONTRACT worth $9.6 million that includes a no-trade clause and deferred compensation. The announcement was made at a news conference at the headquarters of the Turner Broadcasting System, where Sutter, his agents and Braves officials met for six hours today.

Ted Turner, the Braves’ owner, declined to elaborate on what the total payout would be, but estimates are that over the next 36 years, the contract will pay Sutter about $44 million. A total of $4.8 million would be paid in salary over the six years and the other $4.8 million would be invested into a deferred payment account at 13 percent interest that would pay Sutter $1.3 million a year for the 30 years after the six-year deal ends. Sutter, a 31-year-old right-hander, said he and his former team, the St. Louis Cardinals, had compromised on his insistence on a no-trade clause in his contract but could not reach an overall agreement.

He chose the Braves, he said, because of Turner’s commitment to the club and Atlanta’s scenic beauty, ”plus I want to watch Dale Murphy play every day.” Murphy, the Braves’ center fielder, was the National League’s most valuable player in 1982 and 1983.

By AdirondackDave

August 19, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul — Ouch, that info on the Yanks payroll/stadium situation was flat-out painful! Still my hope is that the Red Sox or Rays bury them anyway. It’s so dam satisfying to see them lose games, almost as good as the Braves winning.

By We keep fighting to save the world from goo

August 19, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Why don’t you go down to the park and say that to his face so that he can plant a 95mph fastball between your eyes?

Retort number 1: I would have to let him throw 20-30 pitches before he was able to hit me between the eyes. The pile of goo can’t find the plate some nights.

Retort number 2: Just like he planted a fastball between the eyes of Cubs and or Phillies who roughed up or showed up his teammates? Dude has a spine of goo.

By kool$kat

August 19, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Great blog DOB!

OK Braveheart (and Gayle) - in your post at 3:56 you imply that all the Braves have to do is cut/trade some icons and we win the World Series next year, huh? Interesting.

Coach and other Cox-hater clones: Who would you have the Braves hire to replace Bobby? Who’s out there that Wren could have confidence in to do a better job?

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

They made an announcement here, right before the game, that a person driving a Ford whatever-the-make had left his or her key in the ignition … and the engine was running.

Can’t make this stuff up.

By Coach ( Skip will be missed)

August 19, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

mr. baseball, since you haven’t had one relevant post in months much less posted at all, I’ll take the Dan Quayle jibe as a complement.

As for Terry Pendleton, he has paid his dues. Give the man a chance to manage this team.

Ned Yost and Fredi Gonzalez cut their teeth under the tutelage of Bobby Cox and the both of them are doing pretty damn good. I would expect that Pendleton is just as capable.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul

You’re right. And Hank appears ready to give Cashman or whoever’s the GM carte blanche to buy people.

As I say, both luck and creativity will be needed.

If Burrell’s not available as a FA, then they’ll have to go for an older, lesser player or try to get someone by trade. Magglio Ordonez would be awesome (the Tigers are probably dumping payroll), but would the Tigers deal with Wren again so soon?

By I was a teenage Francophile

August 19, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur: 10 HR in 463 ABs.

Willie Harris: 10 HR in 260 ABs. (He just hit one tonight)

==>

Willie Harris is more powerful than Jeff Francoeur!

By kirknga

August 19, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I really don’t get the whole “Zito, Kevin Johnson, Hampton, etc..” thing? Just because a few big money contracts didn’t work out that it’s good business to avoid giving those types of contracts to anyone?

That makes zero sense to me. Why is it people only point to the escalating salaries of free agent pitchers and not to those pitchers resigning with their teams?

Zito doesn’t make that much more than Peavy, or Halliday, two pitchers some here would love for the Braves to acquire(myself included to some degree).

So trading for a pitchers who makes $16-17 million is ok, but signing for a guy making $18-20 million isn’t?

The Braves absolutely can sign Sabathia. Have a look at Cot’s Baseball Contracts and look how Santana’s contract is structured. The “$139 million” contract is really worth $123 million because of money “deferred annually”.

Thats $20.5 million/year with the rest deferred. The Braves likely offered a similar contract to Tex, so why not Sabbathia?

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Aaaaaaaaa!!

Dude, it’s called RBI #70…GET IT!!!

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Here’s a startling stat I just looked up on Chipper: The Braves have played 32 games at Shea (including this game) since 2005. Chipper has played only 14 of the 36.

By JoJo was not on my radar screen until now...

August 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer may be a large vat of goo…

but JoJo Reyes doesn’t even have a vat.

By mikey

August 19, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

This teams looks really, really bad right now. And if Smoltz or Glavine or Hampton come back next year I am afraid we will be looking at another under 500 team. Problem is as bad as the pitching has looked, the offense looks even worse. Chipper will probably never play 90 games again, why not trade him? I would think you could get at least a good young pitcher for someone like CJones. The infield defense definitely needs to be revamped. One thing the Braves of the nineties always had was a good D on the infield. Now they look like the Keystone cops. ALOT of changes need to be made before this team competes again!

By scott

August 19, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

This thought hadn’t occurred to me until just now: we need to go after Matt Holliday this off-season. I think the Rox are very likely to be trading him away. If they also trade away Fuentes then perhaps Ohman can fill his shoes? Something to think about, I guess…

Of course, we also need at least two quality starting pitchers.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Coach,

It’s the rare occasion I agree with you. I imagine the Braves will approach both Ned and Fredi to gauge their interest, but if TP isn’t hired away this offseason, he has to be among the favorites to succeed Bobby. And he deserves serious consideration.

By Braveheart

August 19, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

OK Braveheart (and Gayle) - in your post at 3:56 you imply that all the Braves have to do is cut/trade some icons and we win the World Series next year, huh? Interesting.

Uh, not exactly what I was implying. Just getting rid of icons would not be all they would have to do to win the World Series or just make the playoffs. It would take alot more than that actually. But holding on to them for the sake of doing so or as a security blanket is not necessary either and can often become detrimental to the cause. It’s time to move on. Go read up on the Ewing Theory:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1193711

By Again and Again

August 19, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

JoJo = HoRam

By Braint

August 19, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

kool$skat:Coach and other Cox-hater clones: Who would you have the Braves hire to replace Bobby? Who’s out there that Wren could have confidence in to do a better job?

I can think of two that we helped develop but unfortunately, they are busy managing 2 teams in the penant race — The Brewers & The Marlins.

By glorydays

August 19, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Regarding Glavine, I’d wait and see. Smoltz I would be more likely to work a deal with him, he has passed up better opportunities to stay with the Braves and Bobby, unlike Glavine. He has always been there for the Braves as one tough dude.

What are the chances that Hampton would take the attitude next year he is going to sign with the Braves for the minimum after all the cash he’s gotten without without pitching. It would be a class thing to do.

Regarding Skip, how many of us would not be a jerk given the number of idiots that call in to radio shows to hear themselves talk. I couldn’t do it!!

By Jake

August 19, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Prado has been pretty hot when he’s in there. I don’t see the justification in batting him 8th and Frenchy 6th. It’s time for Jojo to grow up now. This is his chance to prove he’s more than just an occasional wonder.

By Kelly Johnson

August 19, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Still leading the majors among left-handed batters against left-handed pitchers with a .350 batting average.

Platoon me? Start me only against righties and sit me against left-handed pitchers? Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

By Couch Tater

August 19, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

DOB

It’s Metropolitan Mans Ford. He just left it running while delivering a Margherita’s Pizza.

By Braves traveler

August 19, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

I’m watching peachtree tv from pictou, nova scotia right now on basic cable. Gotta love canada.

By Time For Change

August 19, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

My opinion, not that it counts is this. If Smoltz wants to pitch next year thats great, give him a chance. Glavine on the other hand left us and we have no loyalty to him. We gave him a chance and it was a waist of roster space and money. So say bye bye to Glavine either way and yes to Smoltz who has been as loyal as loyal can be and IMO is the better pitcher. Thats all I have to say. We dont take a chance on both of them. It killed us this year and to do it again is just plain stupid on their part. Espeically if they are going to give Hampton a chance and he owes the braves so its a no brainer.

But thats just me talking.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

scott,

Holliday will command a fortune in return. He’s hitting better on the road than ever (but he’s still a beast at Coors) plus his agent is Sc* Bo*. Are the Braves willing to give away the farm for one year of Holliday? I hope not.

The Rox do have a couple of hitters I’d go after — Ryan Spilborghs or Seth Smith or Ian Stewart (even Jeff Baker as part of a lesser deal). Holliday would cost too much.

By JoJo ingredients

August 19, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

A gooey marshmallow center surrounded by a layer of gooey caramel with a gooey milk chocolate coating.

By Señor Blanco

August 19, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Gregor Blanco le gusta ir a caminar.

Quizá deberíamos llamarlo el “hombre caminando”?

By Mr. Optimistic

August 19, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

man this is sad to see. how long are they gunna give this guy to see he just isnt a major league pitcher. he had 4 good games out of what looks like to be 17 starts. one against S.D which hits just as well as our sorry team. he just isnt a ML starter. can we see it now. cant throw any strikes and then ones he does get hit harder than Chuck James pitching. Glav cant help him then no lefty can.if a hall of fame bound pitcher cant help you then who can. his time has got to come to an end. they sort of get the picture with C.James but now they need to take a hint with JJ Reyes.no suprise on that chipper stat. the past couple of years he has always found a way to “duck” out of a big game. then as it be his fashion say that the team needs to step it up in his absence.with the same theory this year with starting pitching why wait on calling up lets say a hansen instead of losing a start with this slob.y not gain one more. and will one veteran please try and spark Charlie. is it me or does he seem to look like a little kid who was allowed to join the adult table on thanksgiving. soooo scaredd soo non confident. if a hall of fame manager say s you have GREAT stuff wouldnt you think that would be all the confidence you need??????? please i pray the braves dont bother tryin to bring soriano. let his waste of a new contract sit the season out. no sense of him tearing up his elbow although DR.ANDREWS is probably sayin let him pitch since his september calandar is clear. offer Hampton a minor league deal with incentives offer smoltz a middle reliver salary and if glavine is good offer him 5-7 mil.see what the offers for oliver perez are dont go past the 10 mil mark or try to get a dempster. no sheets he cant be counted on with his health history or sabitha cuz the brew crew are wearing that left arm out!!!! in the outfield take ur chances with JF and let shafter /blanco platoon in center and go after VLADY or even Ibanez. but if they take the Ibanez then they MUST spend the extra cash on another pitcher. or if they want try to trade JF to the royals for maybe Grienke sign garland an vlady from LAA and tery for Ibanez and see waht happens

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Well, there’s RBI #70…

Good news is, it tied the game. Bad news is his AVG with RISP is down to .29—

Hey! We’re winning!! WHOO-HOO!!

By flange1

August 19, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Always interesting with the BRaves go ti New York, all the crazies come out.

Amazing to me grown men posting with other names to congratulate themselves on their intelligent posts.

Some think that because 8 million folks live in NYC that makes it good.

More than 8 million folks bought Milli Vanilli albums too, guess that makes those guys good too.

By Bravo, Prado!

August 19, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Umm…

is my man Prado OPS’ing over .900 yet?

amigo was OPS’ing .865 going into tonight and just tripled in his “meaningless” 101st AB.

when are you fools gonna jump on the bandwagon?

oh that’s right, you won’t, cuz you’re addicted to “power” and the roids era like it’s 2002.

Well, whatever. Be complacent with kelly, the bad D, and the alleged power you all expect from a 2nd base position that only 1 team in MLB gets from their 2nd baseman. Haha….u fools are crazy.

kelly johnson @ 7:48

yes u will be platooned. u have been a disappointment this year and in 8 of 11 months since starting since last April. you’ve only hit over .269 in 3 of those months. your power is down this year. and if you think your .350 avg against lefties is significant, i guarantee u it goes down in more AB, like u think my man Prado’s avg will with more AB, except his won’t go down. he’s a true hitter, a contact hitter, a gap hitter who hits with runners on base and in scoring position. u fool. he is consistent with the bat. learn what that means and implement it if you don’t want to be platooned. u fool. your team is offensively inconsistent. it doesn’t need another one of you. u had your chance and choked. time calls for change.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

By the way, lot of talk around Shea today about Wagner’s elbow. Not good. It’s swollen again, and he’s out indefinitely. That’s a potentially major blow to that club, trying to close games sans Wagner.

By TennesseePaul

August 19, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

You know, I appreciate the productive out just as much as the next guy, but if given the choice, I’d rather see a hit with runners on.

At any rate, 3 runs off a walk, 3 straight singles followed by 3 straight outs… it’s enough for the lead… So that’s nice.

By Renegator

August 19, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

This Braves 2008 team is the worst fundamental team ever in the history of the game.

Nice bunt by JoJo. Who’s job is it again to teach bunting?

Bobby Cox should be embarrassed.

By Deep Throat

August 19, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

is my man Prado OPS’ing over .900 yet?

Who the hell cares if he does or is?

His minor league numbers and career major league numbers are way more indicative of his skill level than 102 at-bats, mostly against left handed pitchers, this season.

Prado is not a good option for everyday player, he is not a .500+ slugger and he is not a .400 OBP guy. I don’t care how shiney his 150 at-bat season looks at the end of the year, I am now drinking the Prado kool-aid or being a reactionary.

By john10

August 19, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

tennessee paul

I’m aware that MLB eliminated the draft and follow process in its unsuccessful attempt to curb bonuses. My point was that, in previous years, the Braves would spend a fairly significant amount on draft and follow bonuses in addition to bonuses given to that year’s picks. I hoped that this year they would use the extra million or so not spent on d/f picks on the 2008 draft…

By nelson

August 19, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

bye glavine , bye hampton , bye smoltz…

welcome , pettite or lowe, or sabathia & sheets , or garland & lowe …

By Lou Vales

August 19, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I said I’d NEVER post again, but enough is enough. If Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton pitch for the Braves next year—ANYONE of Them—Then The Braves deserve every iota of avarice, greed, stubbornness qnd egomania that those washed up has beens bring to the table.

Bring Them All Back. In fact bring back Maddux and even have a seance and bring back Spahn and Burdette>. When you don’t have the brains or INTEGRITY to quit, sometimes you must be shoved out the door, just like in the real world.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

One of the NY writers asked Cox before the game about the Braves’ injuries and losing most of their key pitchers, etc. He replied: “We’ve had some bad ones the past two years, but this has been awful. We had a good team … if we didn’t have the injuries.”

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

I see metroman is safely here now calling on Sniper n mets fan in atl!

Mcfann THX , I knew you were! silly Mcturtle!

I used to hate Mets plenty but Phillies have taken over that spot now!

Chipper is at his second Home! Time to rake in those hits BABY!

How long before JOJO explodes?

By Jake

August 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Boy, Jojo is missing on all cylinders. He bunts ball 4 into a double play. And who would have thought that we should have kept Willie Harris so we could have some power off the bench,lol.o, the joys of watching baseball games when nothing is on the line. No pressure, no must win games, but the chance to play the spoiler to the skitzophrenic Mets. Let’s go Braves.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Where Are They Now Sid Break

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Dude, I wasn’t kidding: Get…some…base hits!

You’re welcome, N Nine. Yeah, he’s pretty silly (sometimes! Please don’t take that personally, McTurtle!)

Yeah, I despise the Fillies WAAAAAAY more than I despise the Mets.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Gonzo was reluctant to say anything when I asked if he was OK, but he had a wrap around his hammy after a game this weekend and I could tell from his reply when I asked that he had something wrong he didn’t want to divulge.

I was told it was a tweaked hammy, not something that would DL him, but that he might not be available tonight. We’ll see.

By Braint

August 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Nothing to do with baseball but you should check out Leryn Franco’s calendar from 2007 - she’s the ultra-hot javelin thrower from Paraguay -

[http://www.pbase.com/crespoide/personal2007calendar]

By KyleH

August 19, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Well Jojo has really settled down. Its a shame his pitch count is so high. He has to be in the rotation until the end of the year. Just build his confidence and let him work it out if he struggles. I mean we have nothing to play for this year so we might as well be ready for next.

By gayle

August 19, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

kirknga - the difference between giving Sabbathia $16-17/year and the contracts I mentioned is the 7 years of those deals.

This is not a selctive mention of contracts that have gone wrong, I am listing the giant multi-year contracts that pitchers were given that - with the exception of Santana - have not worked out. The jury is still out on Santana.

Given the chance, don’t you think the Rockies, Giants and Yankees would not love to have been relieved of those contracts? At least the Rockies were able to pawn Hampton off on the Braves.

Please tell me a front line pitcher signed to a 7+ year contract for $100+ million that has worked out.

kool$kat and all the cox lovers - as Braveheart said, we have lost two legitimate managers who left to lead teams elsewhere (both of which are likely playoff contenders).

Look at the play of this team now, the one-run losses, the absence of come from behind wins, the swinging at pitches at eye level. The manager is not responsible for these things by themselves, but when you have a team who has performed like the Braves have over the past 7 years (the last time they won a post season series), you have to take a hard look at the management of this team.

The saddest thing to consider is how many Championships (world championships, not division titles) this team would have won with a good manager. With three hall of famers in the rotation, how much did Cox really have to do? And even with that, in 14 tries, he has ONE title.

I know that this is a losing argument. Cox is manager for life and this team will suffer because of it.

By Couch Tater

August 19, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Braint

I had just been looking at her photos on yahoo right before you posted. sssswwweeeeet.

By JoJo Reyes is an amorphous accretion of goo

August 19, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

In high school, JoJo Reyes was on the gymnastics team. Or rather, he was under the gymnastics team. They used him as the mat.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

whoops Bream not Break lol

By Ted

August 19, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Keep Smoltz. He has been very loyal and we should be loyal to him. When his playing days are over interview him for pitching coach.

Tell Glavine to try out again for the Mets.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Mets came in with a 6-1 record and 2.32 ERA in their past seven games.

Braves were 1-7 with a 6.72 ERA in their past eight.

Perez was 4-2 with a 1.97 ERA in his past nine starts, and 2-0 with a 0.98 ERA in his past four home starts.

Reyes was 0-5 with an 8.74 ERA in his past six starts.

Gotta love baseball.

By the way, temperature’s dropped about 20 degrees since late afternoon. Actually a chill in the air now. Very nice night.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Braves have left eight runners on base through seven innings, and are 2-for-9 with RISP.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

The book on Ayala.. he pitches high in the zone stop popping the ball up

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Who do you think gets the 9th in this scenario then?

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Before tonight, Braves were 9-6 in past 15 road games, and 9-23 in past 32 home games.

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

WHAT THE HECK is going on with you???

(Perhaps I should send the Fillies a “Thank You” card…)

That’s .296 with RISP….299 for the year…

AND HE’S LEFT SEVEN MEN ON BASE!!

They sure as heck better hold on to this…

By kirknga

August 19, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

gayle, one of my points was that it is not just free agent pitchers who have signed big contracts. Others like Halladay, Oswalt, Peavy, all suggested as acquisitions for the Braves, resigned big money contracts(or what was “big money” at that time of signing) not as free agents, but reupping with their current teams and they have so far turned out ok.

“Big money” is relative to the market at that time. The Braves signed Maddux to a big contract, or two and it worked out. Same for Glavine and others. I’ll leave it to others as to whether those contracts are eqivalent to $100 million in todays dollars.

I don’t get that since Kevin Brown, Barry Zito(so far), and Hampton didn’t work out as planned, that somehow means that the Braves should never offer such a contract. Btw, the Hampton contract didn’t keep the Rookies from reaching the World Series during the lifetime of that contract.

It costs a lot to sign Cy Young winners as they don’t go on the market often. In that respect, only Zito and Santana,not Hampton or Brown, would be the correct comparison.

By keylargo

August 19, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Let Gonzo go two! Eighth and ninth. He hasn’t worked in a long time. A one run win on the road would be fine.

By DAP

August 19, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

looks like we might need that save tonight. will ohman be the guy?

By Jake

August 19, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB

Who do you think they would use as a closer since Gonzo is not available?

By N Nine

August 19, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Bennett looks good in the pen again. I wonder what is era is vs starting. I’m guessing better in pen.

I hope we dont give any runs and we dont score any..if you know what i mean.

By KyleH

August 19, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

DOB, judging by some of the recent quotes by Cox concerning Reyes in your blog, do you think Cox is beginning to give up on Reyes? I really hope not because he has a ton of potential and i think he started to turn the corner earlier this season.

Since we dont have much to play for i think we should just let him finish the year and try to be ready for next year He may need to stretch his arm to be able to throw more inning overall next year. Im actually not sure what his most innings in one year is. Anyone know?

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Braves have left eight runners on base through seven innings

Swell. I know who’s left 86% of them…

Let’s hope that doesn’t bite them in the butt…

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

SOTO HIT ANOTHER TRIPLE??????

What? No…no…you gotta be kidding me…no…

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

lol at Heilman throwing over with Casey on first.. he was barely a step off the bag

By I was a teenage Francophile

August 19, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Francoeur is, technically, back under .230.

He’s now hitting .2296.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Anybody know where Blanco ranks amongst Pitches seen per plate appearance?

By varoadrunner

August 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

This year has been so depressing - I’d rather start building for next year.

If Smoltz can come back and be effective -I’d protect him by letting he and Gonzo close.

If Glavine wants to pitch next year ( I think he’s done) then it would be in a limited role and CHEAP.

Frank’s going to have to shell out some bucks for CC and some other class pitcher.

DOB - What are Hudson’s timelines?

JJJ and Campillo seem to be able to carry on their roles in the rotation, but we need more.

I won’t even venture into the hitting areana - I have no idea what we have been thinking the last few years. Julio Franco had a lot of big hits for us, but what about all the other hitters we tried…. Who were they?

Start with pitching - the only way Bobby knows how to win. Let him go out on top using pitching. Please leave Bobby and have a wonderful retirement.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett just looks like an Atlanta Braves pitcher dont he

By N8

August 19, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

DOB

You know what I think is funny? OK. I don’t care if YOU don’t care….I’m gonna tell you anyhow.

I find it amusing that so many people find so much to complain about 3 weeks (more like 2 months) after the season is over.

Really? Are we REALLY gonna have to listen to the Smoltz/Glavine “debate” all winter long?

DOB, you’ve come up with a PERFECT solution, IMO.

Wren should assume that NEITHER of them are a non-factor next season, and set the roster with the budget that LM gives him to work with. All while asking LM (if for nothing else, sentimental value to NOT alienate the fans that DO want Glavine and Smoltz to retire as Braves), to allow them to be paid ABOVE AND BEYOND the payroll, if they are able to contribute.

OF COURSE there will be people complaining if in June Smoltz “comes back” and then at the deadline, Wren is not allowed to add another piece, due to what Smoltz and Glavine would make.

Of course, common sense tells you that Smoltz isn’t gonna come back and embarrass himself, if he’s not gonna be able to contribute.

But I’m hoping like hell that this AAAA team the Braves are putting on the field these days, gets their first victory in a 1-run game against the Mets. Why?

Because there is NOTHING that says how much a team SUCKS, like losing to a HORRIBLE team.

Kind of like Braves fans saying how good we are/were, and then we get our azzes handed to us by the Nats.

Not only could the Mets NOT put Jo-Jo away after the 2-run first, but they allowed this cracker-jack lineup to SCORE three runs.

Contenders? Nope. Looks like BOTH teams from NY are gonna fall just a little bit short, huh?

It’s been a LONG time, but this “spoiler” role might be kinda fun after all.

Anybody out there notice that the Braves are JUST as close to the first place Mets (12 games back), as they are to the last place Nats, who are 24 games back?

Yikes.

However, we are currently in 7th place for over-all worst record, putting us in line for the 7th over-all pick next June, and we’re only 2.5 games ahead of the Giants who are in 4th place.

I’m gonna venture a guess and say that with our scouting and what not, we’ll get a pretty good player if we squeeze into the Top 5.

Ooops. I think I spoke too soon about the 1-run victory. I didn’t realize that Jeff Bennett was coming into the game.

By keylargo

August 19, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Sorry blog, I didn’t read before I posted. Gonzo has an injury and won’t talk about it? What’s going on? Directv has the HD feed on the Mutts announcers and they didn;t say anything.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Ohman’s coming in, bases loaded. All those runners stranded looking very bad for Braves….

varoadrunner: Hudson is 12-month projected return, like most who have TJ surgery. Sometimes it’s a bit longer, rarely is it shorter. So that’d be next August.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Delgado with bases loaded … this has stung Braves a few times in past, now hasn’t it?

By Ohhhh What Struggles

August 19, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Nice job, Bennett. If you get torched, that’s one thing. Walking the potential tying and winning run is totally screwed up.

A bunch of winners we have, that’s for sure.

Anyone really think that Bennett had two innings in him other than Bobby?

By Renegator

August 19, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Ballgame.

Well at least they are keeping their one run losing streak on the road alive.

Who thinks this team won’t win a one run game on the road all year?

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Blah

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Ow……

I hate this team (Mets).

0-4…7 men…Why do I torture myself?

By uga-brave

August 19, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

bennett is trying not to loose instead of cutting it loose. two walks and an infield hit. you really cant make this up.

cry all you want about bobby not making this or that move but this will fall on the braves lousy, stinking, offense.

on cue, just a putrid collection of lousy, never have been and never will be winners.

WE ARE SO BAD THE METS FANS DONT EVEN MOCK US WITH THE CHOP ANYMORE.

By Jeff321

August 19, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Cox brings Bennett out for the second consecutive inning.. And then, waits until the bases are loaded to bring Ohman in and the whole team gets spanked!

In other words, a typical Cox move which sums up why this team currently resides in fourth place.

By Ohhh What Struggles

August 19, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

One more thing, did anyone besides me cringe when Chip and Joe gave the career numbers Delgado had against Ohman? 3-9 with a salami? Is Bobby so fixated with the righty/lefty matchup thing that he doesn’t even look at career numbers and matchups with specific hitter against specific pitcher?

Now that’s a major league manager for ya!

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Guess we dont have to worry bout who pitches the 9th now

By StingerSplash

August 19, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Bennett/Ohman/Tavarez have not excelled so far tonight. Bennett was good in the seventh, but man, this eighth inning has been the season in a nutshell. The Mets smell an opportunity, and they’re all over it. The Braves get an opportunity, and it’s all over.

As much as I appreciate the work Smoltz and Glavine have done over the years, I just don’t see the logic in bringing back two pitchers of their age back after what are potentially major injuries. The risk/reward factor is way high on the risk for what reward you might get.

Boy, this has gotten ugly quick (7-3).

By Jeff321

August 19, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Oh wow! Cox has lost his damn mind. WTF is he doing bringing Gonzo in now for? I mean, the score is 7-3 you donkey.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Does Bobby know Gonzo’s hurt?

By Goat Horns

August 19, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

At least it is not a one run loss.

This team is so poorly ran it is rediculous.

By Drummerdad

August 19, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

This team has an amazing ability to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. As Inspector Clouseau put it: “that is why I have fail-ed where others have succeeded!”.

By Murphy

August 19, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Why did I even turn the game on when I got home from the gym. Why kill all the good endorphins? So frustrating…

By Brett Butler fan

August 19, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Let’s be honest. Couldn’t you just feel sa the game progressed that we would blow it late? I mean really, Julian Tavarez! Well, I guess we just need to “tip our caps” to the Mets hitters! Hey, a few feet here or there and we turn a double play. Oh, I forgot that Delgado almost “grannied” Ohman…

By Jake

August 19, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Sad to say but this has become a typical Braves game. We have all the chances in the world and can’t cash them in, then the other team comes up and manages to cash in all their chances. I guess this is what Chipper was talking about.

Oh and to the Mets fans (Gonzo’s in?) who are going to come in here and get real cocky, Who’s Your Closer? I can tell you from experience you won’t get far without one, but you know that. See you at the end of the year.

By N8

August 19, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

This team is HORRIBLE. Too funny.

Did I say 7th over-all pick before? I mean 6th over-all pick. Well….soon to be anyhow.

This team is so bad, they’re sucking the “good” right out of Will Ohman.

If Jeff Bennett is on this team next year, I will be convinced that Wren and LM have ZERO concerns about putting a competitive team on the field.

He makes me long for the days when Craig McMurtry was on the mound. Yikes.

On a side note, is Keith Hernandez not the ABSOLUTE WORST baseball announcer you’ve ever been forced to listen to?

He makes Joe Simpson seem like the anti-homer. Apparently, the Mets were looking for a bigger jag-off than John Sterling to keep up with the Yankees?

I know I just complained about people STILL complaining about this team, but…..

On the Mets broadcast they just showed how HORRIBLE the Mets are in terms of run differential after the 7th inning.

We just let them score 5 runs (and counting), on us in the 8th.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is our season in a nut-shell. Just when you think that they might not be as bad as they are, they let a team with a run differential like the Mets have late in games rally for 5 runs.

This season can’t possibly end soon enough. Or at least August. There’s got to be SOME reason or some rookie/prospect to watch in September, doesn’t there?

Since DOB liked my last Randy Quaid/Major League II quote, I’ll give you a combined quote. First half from Christmas Vacation and the second half from Major League II. The combination of the two quotes, pretty much explains how I feel about the Atlanta Braves, circa: 2008.

Sh!tter’s FULL! Bring out the pooper scooper!

By Tomas

August 19, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Well if you dont make them, the other team will cash in(spanish saying ” si no las haces te las hacen”). Awesome pitching performance by Reyes. Bad move leaving Bennet after he walked two in a row.

The Braves just cannot win a one run game in the road, is imposible. I would had bring Mike Gonzales to face Beltran and get five outs.

What’s the reason, for these collapses in one run games? Is it that they can’t handle the pressure especially in the road.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

How many times as YUNEL done that?

By flange1

August 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

WOW,

Sad is the only word that I can think of right now.

That and vomit….

By Mr. Optimistic

August 19, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

THANK GOD THE COUNTDOWN TO 09’ IS ONLY 40 DAYS AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

By Brett Butler fan

August 19, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Don’t you just love the way Escobar milks it when he makes an outstanding play? “Hey everybody, look at me. I’m smiling. I don’t care that we just blew this game. What time do we go clubbing?”

By KyleH

August 19, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Why did we wait until the game was out of hand to bring gonzo in. Why not when bases are loaded and we are winning. O well Jojo almost won one.

By Jake

August 19, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Oh and in an effort to stay positive if we would have won tonight we would have helped the Phillies since they already won and we have already helped them enough this season. Well, I tried.

By cabravesfan

August 19, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Oh wow! Cox has lost his damn mind. WTF is he doing bringing Gonzo in now for? I mean, the score is 7-3 you donkey.

If he waited for a save situation we may never see Gonzo pitch again…as it is he hasn’t pitched in a week…

By Bobby Cox has a brain made of goo

August 19, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

What else could explain his decision making?

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Thats a hard loss

By Robert S

August 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

“Oh wow! Cox has lost his damn mind.”

You were presuming that Bobby still has all his marbles?

Sillyness aside, after all the runners left on base tonight (and the fact that the Braves were leading late in a one run game), you kinda saw this debacle coming, didn’t you?

Man, this team might need a supply of straight-jackets before too long………

By McFann Ô

August 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

0-5…8 freakin’ men LOB…

No crying in baseball? Sorry, I’ve never lived by that rule.

I better leave before I get the keyboard wet.

See ya.

By Jake

August 19, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Just a thought but why doesn’t Bobby let Chipper hit cleanup? Every team out there still fears him. He has more power than Infante. It makes him harder to be pitched around if you use Escobar to bunt.

By Goodoleboy58

August 19, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Thats a hard loss

By uga-brave

August 19, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

at least the OFFICE is on tbs now for an hour.

By Metropolitan Man

August 19, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Thanks for not stealing my truck DOB. Nothing much to say, you guys saw the game. METS fans were humble, not too much heckling for the braves. I will admit, Jo Jo ticked me off with his performance but like I told Grinch, your pen is worse than ours….even without Wagner.

By Robert S

August 19, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

For the “goo guy” -

Perhaps we should all chip in and buy the Braves a year’s supply of Goo Gone - that should eliminate about 40% of the team, if your estimates are correct (or at least eliminate 40% of Blaine Boyer, if nothing else).

By Can't Get Up!

August 19, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

It’s getting late in the season. You’re totally out of it. Maybe it’s hard to get up for the regular grind of the season. So you have to manufacture little goals and incentives to play heads up and play hard. How ‘bout playing the spoiler? How ‘bout playing perhaps your biggest rival with a chance to drive a stake into their hearts in their attempt to win the division? Yeah that’s it! Now you have a cause and a reason to play hard and produce!!!

There’s only one problem. You really do suck and it’s not just bad luck or illusion. Incentive to play hard might be there, but you simply aren’t good enough to win.

Nice game, Braves

By METS

August 19, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

By Renegator

August 19, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Ahhh - I remember the days when the Braves used to provide us with these fun come-from-behind victories. Now they are relegated to just being everyone’s victims.

So sad how far this once proud franchise has fallen in 3 short years. If I was Bobby Cox - I would be embarrassed.

Then again, what motivation does he have? No one holds him accountable for the performance of the team. He gets a free pass for eternity because he did a good job managing back in the 90s.

Only about 550 more days until the 2010 season!

By Mike

August 19, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Why is Tavarez on this team? Seriously, isn’t there a monior league reliever we could get a look at? And Bennett stinks too. This team really makes me sick.

By Marietta Dawg

August 19, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

I think Chip jinxed us on the broadcast tonight when we were up by one!

DOB Think that we’ll try to keep Kotsay for another year? He seems to be our only consistent hitter lately and I’ve heard good words about him from Bobby.

By Drummerdad

August 19, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Congratulations fellow denizens. We fans are on the verge of watching our team rival the 1987 Braves. They’ll have to work at it to achieve it, but they seem to be bent on it. I had to listen online to the Mets’ broadcast and they’re talking about Bobby’s perspective on his teams’s recent play. Basically saying that the Braves are mentally checking out, not aware of game situations, and forgetting how many outs there are.

One of the 14 Year teams was that they stayed in the games and kept their poise. Ever since the “Baby Braves” came up in 2005 there has been an increasing inclination to be mentally soft. That may be one of the things that Leo and Glavine gave this team that meant the most. If the team had been in a slide, you count on Glavine getting a quality start and “righting the ship”. They need to find some guys who can impart that same kind of disposition. It may be somebody who is not the brightest star, but somebody who is stinking mean when it comes to how he plays the game. They are sorely missing that.

By Firetheoldfool

August 19, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Murphyrules, it is an unwritten rule that all employee’s of the AJC shall not publicly criticize Bobby Cox, no matter how ridiculous the man gets. Coach. Your 2:59pm post is perfect. DOB has danced around the problem with the Braves all year. Most of us recognize that the primary reason for the Braves lackluster play and stupid bullpen moves are due to BC!!!

He must go if Braves have any chance in 2009.

By Omar Infante is a Jerk

August 19, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

I just lost a lot of respect for Infante.

Two quick outs in the bottom of the 9th. Down by four. Braves look miserable in the dugout and want to hurry up and go. Escobar with puffy eyes.

All Infante can think about is padding his stats. He works a long count and gets a completely meaningless basehit off a pitcher just trying to throw strikes and get it over with.

McCann, class act that he is, makes a first-pitch out to end it.

Infante outta be ashamed.

By Philliesuk

August 19, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Just to echo what (almost) everyone has said before…time to do serious re-building. When I say re-building, I also mean spending some serious money. Yes, spending money on free agents does make you more competitive. Just look at the Cubs, who had a mediocre team two years ago until they went on a shopping spree. If the Braves management doesn’t get in that mind-set, then forget about it, and hope that we can get lucky and have of those teams like this year’s Marlins. FYI: That ain’t gonna happen anytime soon, with this lineup.

Here are my humble suggestions: 1. Don’t trade Chipper. He’s a leader, and even though he gets injured, he’s obviously amazing when he’s in the game. Just make sure there is a guy who can come off the bench and hit. 2. Pick up Sabathia or Dempster, and then sign for another dependable starter. 3. Consider losing the following: Kelly Johnson, Matt Diaz, and (hate to say it) Mark Kotsay. As much as I love Kotsay, we don’t need another fragile starter other than Chipper. 4. Get some speed. I find it hilarious that the AJC story today about Blanco made him seem like a great base-stealer. I’m sorry, but 11 steals is not going to cut it. Maybe we just need a manager who’s a little more aggressive on the basepaths. 5. Encourage Cox to retire. This is not going to happen, unfortunately. I’m very appreciative for his time with the Braves, but his time has passed. 6. Pick up two power hitters. Even when we had Tex, we needed another power hitter. 7. Do not even THINK about re-signing Hampton.

I realize that these suggestions are basically stating the obvious and are calling for a complete shake-up. Time to spend some money.

By jerry

August 19, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

13 pitchers on the roster, and you have to squeeze Bennett for 2 innings? I just don’t know what to say about the Braves…it’s just been a bad year.

By Goo Gone Mess-Free Pen

August 19, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

(Thanks Robert)

Frank Wren needs to order a supply right away:

NEW! Our popular Goo Gone® formula now in a convenient “take along” pen. Safely and precisely removes gummy, stickey and gooey problems while on the go (in the middle of an inning). Spill proof and unbreakable—great for tool boxes (for the bullpen), car and travel (roadtrips).

Will really be useful after those eighth inning meldowns!

By Theo

August 19, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

Pumpers can pump all you want but it’s time to cleanse the stables and start over.

Palyers have gotten complacent and comfortable under Boobey so it’s time for all to go, including the entire coacing and support staff.

You do no leave part of the infection in a patient to fester and grow.

By Goo Gone Mess-Free Pen

August 19, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

(Thanks Robert)

Frank Wren needs to order a supply right away:

NEW! Our popular Goo Gone® formula now in a convenient “take along” pen. Safely and precisely removes gummy, stickey and gooey problems while on the go (in the middle of an inning). Spill proof and unbreakable—great for tool boxes (for the bullpen), car and travel (roadtrips).

Will really be useful after those eighth inning meldowns!

By ryan

August 19, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

fire cox and chip carey he said after bennet threw that breaking ball to evans to make the count 1-2 with with 2 days off he looks fresh 8 pitches later 2 walks.last week he said for next year all we need is 2 or 3 players to get back in the playoffs and to go maybe to ws. ya right

By George

August 19, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

I know ML players do not live in the real world of work, but as for Smoltz and Glavine,it is absurd to even think that they would have any kind of guaranteed contract for 2009. In the real world, a guy who was off sick/injured for most of a yeaar would probably get a chance to come back and see if he COULD still do his job, but he would be guaranteed nothing, would be paid only for the days he worked. If he could not work, he’d be out the door and have to apply for whatever money he could get on a disability or workman’s compensation. These guys have made over $100 million each. All they should get, if they want to try to play, is an invitation to spring training to see how it goes. If they do make the team, their contracts should have mostly incentive clauses on number of appearances and number of innings pitched. They have had great careers, and they deserve some respect, but remember, they were VERY well paid for what they did.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Bennett was fine for the first four outs. Then he couldn’t throw a strike.

The fact that they were relying on Julian Tavarez to salvage the game speaks volumes about the state of this team right now.

Jorge Julio for the pen, anyone?

By Robert S

August 19, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad, actually this team resembles the 1986 Braves than ‘87. In ‘86, the Braves (like this year’s model) stayed near the top of the division, and around .500 all the way into July, then the bottom fell out after July 3, when the Braves were 1.5 games out. The Braves finished at 72-89 (like this year’s team is destined to do).

The culprits then were the same as they are now - poor offense (Dale Murphy had an off year) and poorer pitching, especially after the All Star break (Rick Mahler and Zane Smith lost 34 games between them that year).

One can only hope the poor seasons that followed from 1987-90 won’t repeat themselves for this bunch, or Braves fans are in for some really lean times.

By Drummerdad

August 19, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Philliesuk, You’re right about Bobby not leaving. He’s an institution and has earned the right to go out on his terms. And I think McGuirk, Schuerholz, and Wren look at it that way.

DOB had a very good point earlier about these guys playing with the wrong mindset. They should be playing like they’re on fire. Their jobs next season and even in the next few weeks should depend on it.

Schuerholz said in his book that when he got to Atlanta from KC that the tone, demeanor, and countenance of the team and front office was head hanging failures. People not looking you in the eye, severe lack of confidence, etc… I wonder if it’s back to that? They may have to have a radical purge of this crew to get a fresh start.

By Efrim

August 19, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

56-70….

top 10 pick

maybe Strasbourg will fall and will give him above slot money?

Oh well. Jo Jo pitched pretty well.

Go Braves.

By Robert S

August 19, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Goo Gone Mess-Free Pen, better I guess to use the Goo Gone pen than to dip the team in a vat of Goo Gone, as most of the team would end up disappearing……..

But I guess the “Fire Bobby Cox” crowd would be happy!

By Brett Butler fan

August 19, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

To Omar Infante is a jerk, who wrote:

“All Infante can think about is padding his stats. He works a long count and gets a completely meaningless basehit off a pitcher just trying to throw strikes and get it over with.

McCann, class act that he is, makes a first-pitch out to end it.

Infante outta be ashamed.”

Was this supposed to be ironically funny? Did you see the same thing I did, Escobar swinging at, and flying out on the first pitch, with the team behind 4 runs in the 9th? Chipper and Omar made the pitcher work to try to get them out. Omar was rewarded with a hit. Then Brian swings at, and flies out on the first pitch, with the tying run two batters away.

By N8

August 19, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad

Totally agree with you. I know that Bobby handles his “issues” in house, and behind closed doors.

But when the problems DON’T go away, one has to question if that method doesn’t work with this cast of characters.

I’ve said it 100 times in the past couple of seasons, while the Baby Braves are (were) fun to watch, and McCann is certainly a keeper, this core group of players is an underachieving (only if you think they are good enough to win), group that has played under .500 over the past 3 seasons.

Not much else to say.

Bobby talks about how “good of a team they HAD” before the injuries.

Really? We weren’t winning WITH Hudson. We weren’t winning WITH Texeira. Soriano and Smoltz were never right after the off-season, so when was he assessing how “good” the team was? On paper in November?

Anybody with half of a brain could sense something was not right with Smoltz and Soriano from spring training.

As for Diaz and Moylan? Probably pretty big “blows” to the 25 man roster.

But really? What team DOESN’T have injuries to key set-up men and 4th outfielders (or 3rd outfielders that should have been out of their everyday job LONG before they got injured)?

Bottom line is that Wren was counting on Smoltz and Glavine to anchor the rotation, along with Hudson. They say they weren’t counting on Hampton, but they had to be privately crossing their fingers.

Leaving only JJJ left out of the spring training “projected” starting rotation. We found out REAL FAST how our alleged depth on the rotation was.

Not too much unlike 2007….a LOT of 4th and 5th starters, trying to fill 1, 2 and 3 spots of the rotation.

Along with a guy in RF that seemingly might need to die to lose his job. And for those of you that have seen Weekend at Bernie’s, I too fear that Bobby would just “stand him up” in RF, if he actually were to die. After all…..he’s the golden boy.

For months some of us have been crying to “re-build”. Some of you have asked back….why? We’re young.

I don’t want to rebuild for the sake of “rebuilding”. I want to retool with guys that not only know how to play the game of baseball, including making the proper adjustments to maintain a level of play. But ones who actually want to play baseball.

The way this team has played (lack of focus), in the midst of the weeks following the waiving of the white flag, has been embarrassing for them, the fans and most of all their manager and coaching staff.

The way they’ve sulked and gone about their business is a direct reflection of the lack of respect they have for him and the game, IMO. Even though everybody and their mother claim they all love Bobby.

How about act like it and play your azz off for him then. Because it appears as though the inmates are running the asylum.

This group of young players could really use an Ozzie Guillen right about now. At least him chewing azz in the dugout and publicly calling players out would be more entertaining than the (ahem) baseball these guys have been playing.

By Drummerdad

August 19, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, You’re viewing Tavarez in the wrong light. Think of him as being like the “expendable crewman” in an original Star Trek episode. Crudely put, he’s shark food. He’s there so nobody that they want next year gets killed. They’ve already mailed this season in. It’s just trying to take care of next year that they’re eyeing.

By Jeff321

August 19, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

This team and their manager are so pitiful its not even funny. Now of course we have a couple bright spots.. But, the bad far outweighs the good and acting as if a couple new players are going to change anything is ludicrous.

By brent a.

August 19, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Dale Murphy hit only 29 home runs in 1986, after breaking 30 every year from 82-85 (and 80, as well).

In 1987, he ballooned to 44 - the year the ball was juiced, and then never broke 30 again.

In reality, I think ‘86 was the beginning of Murph’s decline, but he benefited from the juiced ball in ‘87 about as much as any major leaguer.

Then, when the juice was gone in ‘88, the Murph decline continued.

By Charlie

August 19, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Give Smoltz another shot for 2009. He is all class and heart, always has been. John Smoltz is, as always, “money” and “clutch”. Game over against the Mets. The Braves are out to prove that they are not just an embarrassment in Atlanta, but on the road as well. Their dismall hitting must have prompted the bullpen to raise to their usual LOSER status, and give the game away. If the Braves hitters were not going to hit, the bullpen wasn’t going to pitch. The Braves should start wearing a new cap. Color of the cap makes no difference. Replace the “A” with an “L” for “LOSERS”. It would be the only appropriate thing that they would have done since the All Star break. It’s amazing… just when you think the Braves can’t possibly suck to a greater degree, they prove you wrong.

By An Observation

August 19, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad

I’m not picking on you, I swear I’m not. But, you seem to indicate that Bobby should be allowed to go out on his own terms and that he’s earned that. So how long must the Braves give Bobby if he decides he wants to manage ineffectively until he’s 75? If he can’t motivate the team, should he be allowed to stay until he says he’s done? That’s been Bobby’s strength in the past is his ability to motivate. It doesn’t take a genius to see that he’s lost this team. He isn’t able to motivate the team he has now.

You referred to Schuerholz’ book and wondered if the Braves would need a purge. Well at that period of time that JS refers to when he arrived, the Braves started their purge by firing the manager. It has to be one way or the other but it can’t be both. You start your purge with the manager, or you don’t purge. If Bobby has earned the right to manage until he decides to retire, then Braves management no longer controls their product do they?

By Tomas

August 19, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Another dissapointing loss for this Bravos. This can not happen next year. I hope Peter Moylan comes back healthy, so we can have a double play especialist. I remember last year when the Braves were in LA, and Moylan was having trouble throwing a strike, Roger comes out to talk to him, and says, throw him the sinker, he’ll hit to Renteria, and he will turn the DP, and surely enough in the next pitch, he threw him the sinker, the dodger batter hit it to renteria, and they got out of the inning with the DP. I sure miss that this year. No Chad Parronto, no Kevin Gryboswki, and no peter Moyla, in other words no groundball specialist in that bulpen.

I have to agree with Bobby in leaving Bennet in the eight inning after watching that marvelous 7th inning. He got Reyes to ground out, but then lost the strikezone, and walked two in a row. In a one-run game the right move is to bring the closer in, which was well rested, after not having pitched in many save situations, to face the switch hitting Beltran, and Delgado, and get five outs. For modern times that is a textbook move. But for the 90’s, and 80’s that wasn’t the case, and maybe Bobby, hasn’t been totally sold out on bringing the closer for five outs.

But the reason the Braves lost this game, asn’t necessary the bulpen. Escobar tripled with one out in 7th inning, then they walked chipper, bring in Ayala, and he gets Infante, and McCann to pop out. In the 8th inning, Heilman gave up a base hit to Kotchman, then walked the pitcher Bennet(with two out), and Blanco popped up. I would have prefered to bring the hot Kotsay in an opportunity like that.

Heard the SNY broadcasters of some comments Chipper made. “It’s tough to hit when you have two hands around your neck”. He is the only good hitter along with Mac, who is on slump(sorry McFann). Yunel has picked up a little bit now that chipper is back( he stats with Chipper in the lineup around 290, and without they around 234). There is no Mark Texeira now, and this team power is seemingly down to nothing. They need a cleanup hitter, not the I dont think Mac isn’t a good cleanup hitter, but he is better as a player batting behind the cleanup guy. The last two days it’s been Omar Infante, he is a good hitter, but he is NOT a cleanup hitter, and I think all of you would agree. Maybe a Carlos Lee(he has a no trade clause and lives in texas) type player, would be an perfect fit for this team. Dunn will not do the trick, and I think he would be a big dissapointment, although he hits 40 homers per season.

What outfielder migh be on the move via trade.

• Aubrey Huff LF/3B/1B Baltimore 304AVG 27HR 87RBI’s. He is not a very strong defensive player, but I can tell you he can hit. I see him play a lot, and this guy hit’s lefties and righties hard, and is a clutch player. He always seems to come through. He is a line drive and can hit hard and deep. He is hitting 316 with runners in scoring position, with 5 HR, and 57RBI’s(more than Frenchy). He is on his last year of his contract. His stock will rise after this year no doubt, but he would require as much prospects as Matt Holliday, or Carlos Lee.

• Matt Holliday LF Colorado 339AVG 23HR 72RBI’s. One of the best hitters in the game, along with A-rod, chipper, and Pujols in my opinion. I don’t care that he hits in Coors field, the guy can hit anywhere, and should have been the MVP last year not Jimmy Rollins. He won the batting title last year hit 36HR, and 136RBI’s. He is on his last year of his contract. He is expensive no doubt(not money wise but value wise), trade prospects, not named Charlie Morton, Julio Tejeran, Jayson Heyward, or Gorky’s Hernandez.

• Carlos Lee LF Houston 314AVG 28HR 100RBI’s. This guy is a run producer. when he has a runner in scoring position he gets hungry, and always gets that run home that is why he is so fat. You know how they say that some pitchers are horses, well this guy is a mamut, a batting machine. As I said before, this guy has a no trade clause, and didn’t want to get traded from his home in Texas, but maybe in the offseason a miracle happens and he changes his mind about being traded, and the Astros have more than enough hitting, they need pitchers, so do the Braves, but the Braves have money to spend in the FA, and maybe trade Jo-jo Reyes, and two more prospects, not named Charlie Morton, Julio Tejeran, Jayson Heyward, or Gorky’s Hernandez.

By Jeff321

August 19, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

N8 excellent post at 10:54!

By Ander's Mom

August 19, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

…Even though everybody and their mother claim they all love Bobby.

Bobby? Bobby the bartender? I don’t love him. We’re just “friends”.

Now, Anders - you promised to take a bath if the Mets won. Now go do it!

By Drummerdad

August 19, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

analogy: It takes a lot of time and miles to turn a ship around at sea.

By Tomas

August 19, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Correction on my previous post at 11:04pm

Aubrey Huff wouldn’t require as much prospects as Matt Holliday or Carlos Lee.

By uga-brave

August 19, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

drummerdad,

i think the braves might need twenty episodes of star trek to get rid of all of their “expendable crewmen”

absolute dearth of talent.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 19, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad,

Touche.

Tonight’s game may have pushed me over the edge, but I’m questioning my long-held opinion that a couple of key additions may be enough to put this team in contention next year.

I see too many has-beens, retreads and wannabes out there to field a competitive club in 2009.

Maybe the Braves should declare McCann and Jurrjens and Hanson and Heyward and a couple of other prospects off-limits and then consider moving anyone else who can attract a viable offer.

That includes Chipper, as much as I consider him the most important Brave since Murphy.

Or they could win the series against the Mets and I’ll get in a better mood.

JoJo did exactly what was expected of him and he deserved better than this.

By Robert S

August 19, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

brent a, you have a point about Murph. His knees were toast by 1988, and he got by with guile after that. The Braves were a bit late in pulling the trigger to trade Murph, but then again, trading Murph when they did opened the door for Dave Justice, and the rest, they say, is history.

Without his chronic knee problems, Murph would’ve played longer, and been a cinch Hall Of Famer with 450-500 homers. He should be in anyway, in this guy’s humble opinion…….

By N8

August 19, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Ander’s Mom

Nice try. We all know from Anders’ posts, that nobody else in his family knows how to read, much less type on a blog.

By Marietta Dawg

August 19, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Seems like we took all of those division championships for granted.

I hear lots of people on here talking about bringing in CC, but why would he want to come here? I know that many players speak highly of the Braves organization, but he would be our only stud pithcer, since Hudson is out for most of next year. Of course we’ve got many holes to fill, but atleast we’re not the Nationals or Royals!

It will be interesting to see who gets called up in September.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

When it goes for Bennett, it goes so quickly. He just couldn’t throw a strike, in such a crucial situation.

Delgado, whether he’s hot or cold, has a way of killing Braves through the years. He was 13-for-63 (.203) in his past 17 games before tonight.

He’s got 38 extra-base hits and 68 RBI in 74 career games against the Bravos.

By doogie

August 19, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

I used to get mad at this team. Now they just make me laugh.

Yesterday’s game made me LOL.

Today’s game had me ROTFLMAO.

Who knows, tomorrow’s game may make me laugh so hard I’ll PIMP.

By Chop Chop

August 19, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

N8,

You were jumping the gun at 9:55 with this little nugget:

Not only could the Mets NOT put Jo-Jo away after the 2-run first, but they allowed this cracker-jack lineup to SCORE three runs.

Contenders? Nope. Looks like BOTH teams from NY are gonna fall just a little bit short, huh?

You know, if you’re that desperate to look for a reason to tear down the Mets, wait until after the game is won to do so…hahahaha. You know this Braves team, right? This team stinks to high heaven right now, dude. We can’t count on this team to do anything right.

You know what I saw tonight? I saw a Mets team take advantage of a bad Braves team, smell the blood in the water in the eighth, and rip the Braves apart. The Mets may not win anything this year, but they’re certainly contenders to do so. I know it’s rare for a Braves fan to show respect for the Mets, but I have no problem doing that. They are a good team. The Braves aren’t, and the Mets proved it again tonight.

By gotigers72

August 19, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

There can be a good argument made that the Braves are the worst team in baseball. The worst team in baseball are the Washington Nationals, and they have a winning record against the Braves. So do the Giants, Pirates, Rockies, Reds?[maybe .500]. In other words, most of the losing teams in the NL have winning records against the Braves. They have played some horrible baseball since the All Star break. Just plain putrid.

Mr. Wren has a lot of work to do from now until next February. Keep Smoltz through Spring Training to see how he does. Cut or trade Glavine, Hampton, Bennett, Tavares, Acosta, Chuckie, and send to AAA Boyer, Jo Jo, Nunez. As faras position players, cut or trade KJ and Diaz.

By Philliesuk

August 19, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

N8, you’re so right. Was this team really that good before the injuries?

I’m of this mindset: Much of our projection was relying on some overrated players coming off career years. Matt Diaz is a case-in-point. Granted, he had a ‘monster’ year last year, but this year told more of the story. When his a** was on the line and he had to produce, he simply didn’t. He made Jeff Francoeur actually look patient. He MUST go, if this team wants to win. Another overrated player: Kelly Johnson. He simply can’t produce in the clutch. That dropped ball against Philadelphia will just an example of what he can do in a pressure situation. Trade him, even if we only get a couple of prospects.

This team relying on some below average players (KJ, Francoeur, Diaz, etc) and some old pitchers this year. It’s time to get some dependable players in here who have some sort of leadership skills as well.

By David O'Brien

August 19, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

DOB has danced around the problem with the Braves all year. Most of us recognize that the primary reason for the Braves lackluster play and stupid bullpen moves are due to BC!!!

He must go if Braves have any chance in 2009.firetheoldfool

So let me get this straight, because you and a few others keep saying this: If I don’t agree with you, if I believe that the Braves’ primary problems have been 1. Injuries to top two relievers and key starting pitchers, 2., A mistake (in hindsight) of relying so heavily on old players, and 3. Several underperforming players in key roles, including Francoeur and, yes, Tex during the first six weeks of the season (again, it’s what he’s always done, but this season it killed Braves because enough others besides Chipper weren’t carrying team) … if I believe these to be the team’s fatal flaws more than I believe it to be the manager’s fault, I’m “dancing around” the problem?

Oh, OK. So any of us who disagree with you are dancing around the problem? Because we think blame lies more with players who haven’t lived up to expectations, along with the absurd amount of injuries, because we think that it’s “dancing around” the issue?

OK, got it. Guilty as charged.

By Tomas

August 19, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I agree with everything you wrote in you’re article, especially the part were you wrote, that if Glavine and/or Smoltz ask for a salary around 5 or 7 million it would be too much, for guys who cannot be counted on for 162 games. If Smoltz, is fully healthy, throwing pain free, in spring training, I would give him a salary worth 2 million as a maximun. I would give Glavine a 1.5million as maximun. If they don’t like it, let them try to find a team that would pay them 5 million. Let’s be realistic, Smoltz, Glavine are both in their early 40’s and just lost most of this season with arm trouble. Maybe they could look healthy in the first month, but then the arm problems show up, how would they justify paying them 5 million. A fair deal is 2 million for a player who offers no guarantees. Hampton I’d probobally agree on giving him 3 million as a maximun, IF he stay’s healthy for the rest of the season. Tell what are the odds of him injuring himself again, he doesn’t have a lot of parts of his body that havent been injured, and every time he got injured it was a new injury. Maybe he is as healthy as ever, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And he will be 36 next year, he offers more guarantees than Smoltz, and Glavine. He is a good 3-4 starter, who adds a veteran presence to the rotation.

By scott

August 19, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, Holliday would command a fortune but I believe there would be some room on the payroll for someone like him. We need a marquee player.

Plus, I would much rather they grab Holliday than Adam Dunn.

By N8

August 19, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Marietta Dawg

“Seems like we took all of those division championships for granted.”

Not a chance. While I didn’t appreciate the choking in the post-season, that run was amazing while it was happening, and will NEVER be seen again. When my wife and I started dating in 94, I can remember saying to her…..“don’t worry, this team might not be very good for much longer, so you won’t have to deal with the October madness for very long.”

11 years later I was STILL saying that every October.

I never took for granted what three HOF pitchers in their prime for a decade could/would and DID do for our Braves. If anything, too many people have taken for granted what THOSE THREE meant to this team.

“I hear lots of people on here talking about bringing in CC, but why would he want to come here?”

Couldn’t agree more. Not only will Wren NOT pursue CC, but if he does call, the odds of CC’s agent calling back are minimal at best, other than to leave a message where they both laugh hysterically on Wrens machine.

“Of course we’ve got many holes to fill, but atleast we’re not the Nationals or Royals!”

YET. Make no mistake about it. Without Smoltz, Glavine and Hudson in the rotation next year, we will be closer to the Royals and Nats than we will be to the elite teams in MLB. Having the financial resources to make moves, does NOTHING for your team if you continue to make poor ones. Like leaving Jeff Francoeur out in RF to “learn” how to play the game. I thought that’s what the minor leagues were/are for?

“It will be interesting to see who gets called up in September.”

Yes it will.

By Kentavo

August 19, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

I bet Omar Infante never dreamed he’d be hitting cleanup.

By richbrave

August 19, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Any chance of getting that 120+ million payroll and a decent team next year with two new featured pitchers.??

And what’s with KOTCHMAN.?? Is it true he didn’t want to come to ATLANTA and is poison in the clubhouse.?? I’m not sayin’, just askin’.

By Mitchell

August 19, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

My intelligent comment for the night:

Stupid booooop dumb boop booooop idiots.

I’d rather have lost in the 9th on a two out, two strike, two run homer by jose reyes to lose another one run road game. I would have prefered that by a mile.

That’s what they get when they leave all those runners on base. They deserved to lose. Don’t they have any respect for themselves?

If Bennett comes in in late relief and records a one-two-three inning, that means you take him out immediately and don’t put him back because it’s a absolute fluke.

That should just be a general rule.

No offense to DOB but I think folk art is a racket.

“Hey, what the heck is that?”

“It’s a toilet seat and I painted on it.”

“Brilliant. How much?”

Go Braves. I’ll be watching tomorrow night but I don’t know why.

Sorry if I sound like a maniac.

By N8

August 20, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop*

I know. Sorry. Grab foot and insert into mouth.

The SECOND that Bennett walked the two guys, I knew it was not gonna end well. Oh well.

I actually have zero problem giving the Mets credit. They clearly are the better team than the Braves (even though they are just 3-7 against them), but I couldn’t agree more with your “smelled blood” theory.

They were patient and took those balls where they were pitched. Ironically the “rally” was started AFTER Reyes made an out to start the inning.

David Wright gets a lot of flack on this blog (most of which is justified), but if Jeff Francoeur had HALF the patience that Wright showed on that AB in the 8th, he and the team would have had a different fate this season.

doogie*

Your 11:26 made me laugh. Well done.

DOB

You know that I would never accuse you of dancing around the Bobby talk. And I certainly agree that MOST of the issues are under-performing players and injuries (mainly to Smoltz and Hudson), but SOME of the blame has to fall on the manager, not?

I’m not claiming that the results would have been significantly better, in fact perhaps he is right more often than not, and many of my “suggestions” may have made the team worse.

But the fact that he just seems to “ride it out” too much, just gets to me.

I’m not asking for him to be fired. Don’t really care who is in the dugout, if the players can’t play (due to injury….or LACK of talent), there is only so much a manager can do.

But it just appeared that he sat on his hands too much, and waited for things to change.

That approach worked fine in the 90’s with the HOF rotation and All-Star lineup. There was a track record there. Common sense said that things WOULD turn around, one only hoped it wasn’t too late. For 14 years, it wasn’t too late when they did get it right.

For 3 years, it has gotten too late. Something’s gotta give. Either the managers approach in the dugout (or the manager in general), or the players in which said manager (or new manager) is going to battle with.

But I can guarantee you that if Bobby doesn’t change his approach, or the players on the roster aren’t shipped off for new ones (not ALL of them…just the majority), the results next year will not be any different than the last three.

The combination of this core of players and Bobby Cox, is NOT working. No matter how much they love, respect and worship him.

Just my opinion.

By SNIPER-69

August 20, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

It’s not the same blog without characters like LEW and Doc Holiday to end the night with a bed time story about how the mighty braves are gonna win the division and show the METS they’re the best in the NL East. Maybe DOB can fill in with a tale of his own. I especially like the ones that start with the word IF.

By Mitchell

August 20, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

I thought I had found some perspective after this season finally got out of hand and Tex got traded. I had a hard time seeing Brian McCann getting knocked out in Philly by that little Hawaiin sprite Victorino and I was very glad to see that he would be okay. Like most people I thought it would be a chance for us to take stock and look forward to next year. Now it looks like we’re probably even going to suck worse in ‘09.

But when it comes to our run from the early ’90s to 2005 I really thought I had found peace. We had some of the greatest teams and players and pitchers ever and a lot of them are going to be Hall of Famers.

But then I sent myself into a spiral after I inexplicably read a summary of the 1996 World Series. I really, really shouldn’t have done that. If you’re a John Lennon fan like I am, you still hold onto the belief that the world would be a better place with him in it. As a Braves fan, I think it would be hard to disagree that if we had not lost the ‘96 World Series the world, our world, would be a vastly superior place.

It’s so damn wrong. It’s unfair. We should have won in ‘96. We should have won in ‘91, and ‘92. And if we hadn’t let the Mets back into the ‘99 NLCS we would have all sorts of momentum. I’m sorry for bringing up the past but that’s where I’m at. How could we be so good all those years, win all those games down the stretch and then have that one moment in October when we just needed that one hit or one big out and we never got it?

If there was ever a time that we went up against a team that we should have lost to it would have been the Indians. They were actually quite superior to us and sure, we won, but you can’t say that wasn’t more than a little anti-climactic.

Sorry. It sucks. I suck.

Not a whole lot of closure I guess. Closure is nice.

By jj

August 20, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

Willie Harris update: Since all-Star game, last 45 games Willie is hitting 301 52 for 173 , 8 hrs, 26 rbi. Harris has played every infield position except 1st and LF, cf and rf. The Nat’l are 25 games out but they still bust their a* everyday. (not like braves and BC play dead) Harris credits hitting Coach Lenny Harris with his improved power and work habits. Just heard he hit homer tonight.

Bobby Cox and Braves Management sucks. I love the Braves but enough is enough ,its time for a change.

By N Nine

August 20, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Oh dear shoulda known something would happen since we were winning by one run on the road. It’s so sad we cant close the deal.Are we really going all year without a win in that department ( has been a calender year already)

THE CHIPPER JONES UPDATE:

Chipper 2-3 .365

Pujols 1-4 .347

Holliday 2-3 .341 (unfinished)

Anyway chipper for mvp? ok never mind. The only bright spot this year—really! Maybe jurrjens but that’s it!

By Mitchell

August 20, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

The Mets can get away with getting called being better than the Braves, but that’s only because most little league teams are better than the Braves.

They are technically better than us. But that was a game that was supposed to reflect out continued dominance against them regardless of our record. To be playing so bad these days and to give up an early lead only to go ahead by one run an inning or two later. That’s what we do it against these guys.

WE GAVE IT TO THEM! How hard is it to just throw the ball over the plate? How hard is it to realize that Jeff Bennett under no circumstances should be allowed back in the game regardless of his performance?

The only team who would not have capitalized on the opportunities presented to them is us. We would have found an astoundingly idiotic way of ruining that situation at the plate. As it turns out we did exactly that in the field.

It would be nice if we could have a winning record against this team in spite of everthing else. Like we should have done last year before we let up. Games like this… I don’t know. I’m too tired.

WE SUCK.

By Alonzo in Mourning

August 20, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

DAVE

Maybe it isn’t all Bobby’s fault but I think some of us bloggers and Braves fans would love to see a occasional tough question thrown at Bobby.

I’ve seen the post game press conferences and it appears to be a group of scared puppies quivering around Bobby. No pointed questions and never a follow-up to some of his self delusional answers.

I get to see other post game interview sessions with my MLB package and there always seems to be a reporter or two ruffling the manager’s feathers.

But NEVER in the Braves manager’s office. Is he some kind of dictator who will have you taken out and shot?

By kirknga

August 20, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

I think the current team has talent, put at this point there are too many complementary and role players and not enough load-carriers.

Put KJ, Francoeur, Escobar, Blanco, Prado, Boyer on contending teams where they aren’t counted on as heavily as they are here, and I bet they would excel.

I think we are asking players to be more than they are capable, at least at this point in their career.

The Braves are going to have to get some guys who can be counted on to carry the load in the rotation, the lineup, and in the pen.

I wouldn’t count out any player coming to Atlanta if the Braves are willing to pay. Atlanta is a great city,players still respect Cox, and Chipper and Smotlz,, as well as the organization much more than many people here on the blog. To say that you know for certain player X isn’t coming here because he holds the Braves in the same low regard as you do is a bit much I think.

If the Braves make it clear they are going to be players in the free agent chase, I think free agents can distinguish between teams that based on their history/market have no chance of winning, and teams that do.

By jj

August 20, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

I’m sure glad Richmond Braves- aaa -will be in Atlanta next year. That way we can go to games and not have to watch Bobby Cox, TP, Frenchy and the over the hill gang lose.

By N8

August 20, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

Anybody out there notice that the Angels have gone 10-8 (.555), since making the Tex trade, after going 66-40 (.622), in the 106 games BEFORE he arrived.

I’m telling you. Regardless of numbers, the guy breeds LOSING.

I remember reading a quote from Bobby Higginson, of the Detroit Tigers fame, that he was sick of losing. A buddy of mine (a Tigers fan), made the comment to me: “I wonder if it’s ever occurred to him that HE might be one of the reasons they don’t win?”

In Higginson’s time with the Tigers (95-05), they didn’t finish above 3rd place, and the closest they came to having a winning season, was 79 wins (2000), and IMMEDIATELY up him “moving on”, the Tigers won 95 games, finishing 2nd, and ultimately winning the AL pennant. Of course losing to the Cardinals. Which they followed up by winning 88 games in 07.

One COULD argue that Higginson was part of the problem, despite averaging around 20 HR and 80 RBI for almost a decade (why does that sound like Francoeur in the making?).

As for Tex?

From 03-06, the Rangers went 319-329. The Rangers & Braves in 2007 combined to go 75-86 while he was on each team. In 2008 the Braves were 49-57 at the time of the trade, and now the Angels are playing arguably their “worst” (relative term), baseball since the trade.

Somebody explain that to me. Scott Boras need not respond.

By NO MORE BOBBY

August 20, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Thats your best lyrics posted yet!! As far as the old guys… Glavine said went it wasnt fun anymore right? Well look at him on the bench and during interviews. If thats him having fun then I would hate to see him down. Smoltz has nothing to prove to anybody but I really wish he would take a year off and then come be the manager in 2010!!!

It would bring that excitement back that ha been gone for a long time (even in the late 90s when people were not coming out to the playoff games). The whole 90s thing has to go period here and yes that includes Bobby Cox. It is played out and time to move on. New players, new manager (Smoltz) and new attitude.

Thanks guys for all you did but last time I checked 1995 was a long time ago.

By Flie on the Wall

August 20, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Right on, Alonzo in Mourning, I’ve wondered the same thing for the past several years, the Atlanta Media fall all over themselves not to cross Bobby, including the reporters at the park and the even the columnists at at the esteemed AJC. I understand some of these guys have to look him in the eye everyday, but sadly our columnists can’t even question bone-headed moves or ask the tough questions from afar while sitting in their cozy offices staring at a luminated computer screen, we need media competition in this city in a big way

By Wayne in Utah

August 20, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

There was one highlight of the evening, and that was Ho-Ho’s performance, especially after the first inning. Otherwise, this was really disappointing.

Are we mathematically eliminated yet?

By Wayne in Utah

August 20, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

The blog is very hard to read with this bold typeset.

By kirknga

August 20, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

I’ve not been one to comment on Cox one way or the other, but I do know that when he had the right talent he wins. Maybe not win enough to include the World Series, but he was in the hunt every year.

So we know he can win. With some managers that is an unknown. We know how he runs his teams and we know that he can be the Braves manager for as long as wants to manage. Some of us may disagree with that, but that is the reality.

So given that he’s going to be here, and given that he has shown he can win, maybe the question the Braves and us bloggers need to be asking is what mix of players does he need?

By Supes

August 20, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

N8

You were right on with the posts tonight. I especially got a good laugh about Jeff “dying” and Bobby propping him up like Weekend at Bernies in RF:)

Sniper

I heard your Mets are going to play great in August, all to make the choke that is coming up even more dramatic and painful in September. I know deep down inside you and the rest of the Mets nation are frighten, insecure little “stepchildren” of NYC, waiting for the Phillies to put you out of your misery so your under achieving team can lose and go away as they always seem to do!

DOB

I think the pen is shot. (But Bobby isn’t pulling any of the right moves lately with the relievers. They’ve all been getting hammered)

The only good thing from tonight’s game was Jo-Jo’s starting pitching and Chipper Jones still being a Mets killer. (Yes, still OWNS the Mets and still better than their golden boy David Wright!) On base all 4 times.

By ScottBravesfan

August 20, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

Retch,

I wasn’t aware that Mike Hampton pitched for the Braves in the 90s. And you want to get rid of Chipper Jones? Are you f*cking insane? The guy is hitting 18 points higher than Pujols and is about to win the first batting title for a Brave since TP did it back in 91.

By Laurie in Loundes

August 20, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this

I know Maddux can afford a personal trainerr. It is possible to work on that body of his from the knees down. I’m 60 years old and if I looked that scrawny and pitiful I would consult a therapist.

great arm, great longevity, but a 23 dollar pair of legs. pitiful!!

By NO MORE BOBBY

August 20, 2008 3:57 AM | Link to this

Do you think things could be a little better if our bullpen didn’t suck? The big 3 that Bobby continues to go to (and its not the managers fault right?) have cost us 16 games this year. Acosta (before injured), Boyer and Bennett are the three Im talking about. Now the facts are there on the 16 losses so all you Bobby lovers wanna tell me why he went to these guys over and over early in the season? I know we have no arms left now but Im talking about in May when I would sit and watch in horror as Cox would make another wrong call to the pen.

By nolie

August 20, 2008 4:36 AM | Link to this

I didn’t care all that much for Descent, but I liked The Descent a lot.

By nolie

August 20, 2008 4:52 AM | Link to this

All y’all who are tied up in knots over whether Schafer will hit lefties: Get a life!BFIR

Tied up in knots? How do you get tied up in knots about some legitimate doubts on his ability to hit lefties? You his agent or something?

The truth is that 80% of prospects fail to become impact players, even ones who show a lot of promise. I’m not saying he won’t succeed, but there is no sin in wondering how he will fare in the bigs.Seems like a he11 of an over-reaction on your patrt to me dude.

By BravesFan79

August 20, 2008 4:53 AM | Link to this

Mark: How in the WORLD would ANY team bringing SMOLTZ on the roster be taking a BACKWARDS step!?

I say keep in the bullpen next year, have him come back around the all star break in the Pen to help us make a 2nd half push!!

By Drummerdad

August 20, 2008 6:23 AM | Link to this

Dear By An Observation, My point was wondering if the team is back to the fallen countenance and lack of confidence that Schuerholz recognized when he came to Atlanta, not whether this team needs re-arranging.

As for whether Bobby goes on his own terms or gets the boot, let me ask you and all the folks in here who are unhappy with Bobby a question:

What do we (Braves’ collective fan base) know about this situation that Terry McGuirk, John Schuerholz, and Frank Wren don’t know? Do we know more or better than they do? They evaluate and make those decisions. We’re just unhappy, and for some of us Bobby is the lightning rod.

By Ronald Millsaps

August 20, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this

Not sure about the actual topic here. What do we “do” with Glavine and Smoltz? Well, the Braves don’t really factor in that much. If these gentlemen return, the Braves would be fools not to take them back. It’s that simple, and I think John Smoltz WILL be back. I’m praying for Glavine and him to be healed.

I would like to see the Braves bolster the rotation by signing someone proven to go along with who we have. I’d offer C.C. Sabathia a 6-year/$150 contract, since the funds are there, and I’d use the absence of the vicious New York media as a selling point, to a certain degree.

I’d also pursue Adam Dunn and Ben Sheets, not to mention Juan Cruz. Every guy I just mentioned could be a Brave next season.

I hope Tom Glavine does return. He actually had two of his best seasons ever in 2006 and 2007; I’d hate to see him retire like this, after not really getting a chance to pitched healthily.

In doing some recent reading, I learned that Jimmy Rollins and Tony Tarasco are cousins. Just an FYI at 6:30 a.m..

By BlackberryCobbler

August 20, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

What a pathetic performance by the bullpen. Not to mention so many missed opportunities with running on base.

This team is just absolutely horrible.

A major (I mean MAJOR) overhaul is needed or next season will be much of the same or even worse. I haven’t seen a Braves team this bad in a long, long time.

Pathetic……… !!!

By Billy

August 20, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Wren has publicly stated he will not give 20% of the team’s payroll to one player when asked about signing Santana last year. At 6 yrs $150 mil that is $25 mil per year.

The Yankees will end up with CC. They have $85 mil coming off the books and have said recently they will go after the best pitcher available and sign that pitcher.

If the Braves sign a pitcher, which I think they will, expect about $16-17 mil per year and maybe, maybe 3-4 years max.

The Braves usually stay in character with finances and even though they have around $48 mil potentially coming off the books and ownership increasing payroll, I expect a conservative spending pattern.

The bullpen next year should, health and trade permitting, feature Bennett, Boyer, Soriano, and Gonzalez as the top 4 and as much as I hope the Braves resign Ohman I do not think they will make available the money to keep him,,,,,,which should be Cruz type money. They historically don’t spend much on the final 3 spots of the bullpen.

JJ and Morton are almost certain locks for next year in the rotation. I would expect a Dempster or Dempster equivalent type free agent pick up. Maybe a Lowe. Also look for the Braves to try and acquire a talented pitcher via the trade route.

Remember, the last few years the Braves have needed a 25-26 man pitching roster in Atlanta to get through the year. So expect depth to be a priority again.

By BigP

August 20, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett is disgusting with that big fat cheek of his. Sends a fine message to thousands of kids who watch him on TV. Why is chew tobacco still allowed in the major leagues?

By Couch Tater

August 20, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Answer.

Tom Glavine 2 John Smoltz 1

Question?

How old were Smoltz and Glavine when Led Zeppelin was formed?

(Robert Plant Turns 60 today.D@mn!)

By richbrave

August 20, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

At least SKIP got to see the BRAVES in full-circle-worst to first to almost worst.

By nolie

August 20, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

Hard to take after the previous 15 seasons. We’re finally getting a look at how most of the other half lives and it ain’t very prettyMrBaseball

Yo Tom Selleck, howya doing? I am a big fan.

It’s kinda like a regression to the norm after 14 years of above average play and a whole lotta luck, huh?

By Barrington Garland

August 20, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB DOB

HEY LISTEN! WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THE INJURIES AND PLAYERS NOT LIVING UP TO EXPECTATIONS. I GOT THAT! THERE IS STILL NO EXCUSE TO PLAY WITH NO HEART & NO PASSION. YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY AS THE BRAVES BEAT WRITER TO ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS AND YOU WON’T DO IT. DO YOU REALLY THINK COX HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS DEBACLE OF A SEASON? IF SO, YOU’RE EITHER DELUSIONAL OR A HOMER THAT’S TOO BIG OF A WUSS TO ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS! IF THIS WERE ANY OTHER TOWN, THE PAPER AND THE FANS WOULD BE CALLING FOR HIS HEAD. EVEN JOE TORRE GOT CANNED AND HE MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH COX’S TEAMS IN THE 90’S. YOU JUST DON’T GET IT DO YOU?

By Jeff R

August 20, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

This is worth repeating: According to the AJC’s own Jeff Schultz, the Braves should free up about $47 million next year in salaries. With that sort of money availble, Sabathia is gettable - at the very least, Wren could make a serious play for his services.

DOB guesstimates that Sabathia will command $18-20 million annually in a multi-year contract. That’s less than half of what will be available next season for a first year installment.

It would also help for Liberty Media to loosen the purse strings. Speculation has been that Wren will - or is - lobbying the ownership for more dinero. That would make sense.

No, Atlanta isn’t the market that New York, Chicago or Los Angeles is, but it’s the next tier down and deserves an ownership that’s willing to spend more on payroll to give management the leverage to pursue blue chip talent.

By Dan

August 20, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Good lord, is this what we’ve come to? Criticizing a player for chewing? I know we’re upset about the team but this is a reach. But for argument’s sake, here’s another thought. Bennett is sending a great message. The message being that parents should TALK TO THEIR CHILDREN. Explain that it is his choice, and a poor choice at that.

By brent a.

August 20, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Robert S

Yes, Murph is definitely a Hall of Famer.

He gets punished by the “90’s home run explosion”, in my opinion.

By Dave

August 20, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

If I am the Braves I appeal to Hampton for basically getting a paycheck for doing nothing. I ask him to take a 1 year contract at $3 million to prove himself again.

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Wayne Are we mathematically eliminated yet?

Technically, no.

That game might have to overthrow Monday’s game as the second ugliest game of the year. Ho-Ho finally has a good outing (and got a little run support), and the blasted ‘pen gives it up!

But the Braves certainly could have scored more than three lousy runs. When you come up with men on base every at-bat, and don’t get a hit at least once—that’s a bit disturbing. Eight men? Come on, now! And the team left 11 on. So there’s no Q that they should have scored more. But they did have the lead, and the bullpen blew it.

For a while, I thought they would finally pull off the One Run Road Win (hard to say five times fast!), but when they kept wasting opportunities, I had the gut feeling that it would come back to bite them, well…you know.

By Jeff R

August 20, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

I’d give Ohman $3 million before I’d give it to Hampton… or Glavine.

By Howie from Poughkeepsie

August 20, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure everyone is getting Dave’s message. Here is what I read and completely agree with: 1. No Glavine, Smoltz or Hampton on the 40 man winter roster; 2. No money allocated to Glavine, Smoltz or Hampton in the 2009 ‘budget’; 3. Glavine, Smoltz and Hampton possibly as non-roster ‘invitees’ to spring training if they are healthy enough to try and compete for a roster slot on the 25 man roster in April.

I’m not sure why anyone in the blog would suggest that doesn’t make sense. If any of the three actually wins a spot on the 25 man roster, Braves management should be glad to pay them the reduced salary they would be commanding. This seems to be only a’win-win’ approach.

As for what to do in the winter with the $35M or so we save from their 2008 salaries: we should be able to afford two great starting pitchers in the 28 or so age group. I’m not sure free agency will provide such opportunities, but we can start there.

What MUST be dealt with in the off season is a conditioning program for our pitchers. YES - there is an alarming number of pitchers across MLB that have had serious arm injuries this year, but the Braves have had a ridiculous number of them. I’m not saying Leo Mazzone’s program was the best, but we didn’t have those issues back in the 90’s. We need to spend money on off season conditioning programs. What the players do themselves just isn’t enough.

By Vince

August 20, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren, get to work. This is a BAD team a very BAD team. There is not one component of this team that is any good.

By DAP

August 20, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

bigp Jeff Bennett is disgusting with that big fat cheek of his. Sends a fine message to thousands of kids who watch him on TV. Why is chew tobacco still allowed in the major leagues?

jeff bennett was chewing sunflower seeds.

when watching the game last night, i thought mike gonzalez was going to be unavailable. he ended up pitching in that horrible 8th inning.

if mike gonzalez was available, why wasnt he brought in to face delgado with the bases loaded? that was the biggest spot in the game. there was a lefty up to bat that strikes out alot, has lost bat speed and is vunerable to high strikes, and mike gonzalez was available. i cant BELEIVE he wasnt brought in right then. or maybe even be fore that to pitch to beltran. stupid, stupid move.

By Defense Attorney

August 20, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Police in Fort Worth arrested a 21-year old man after he tried to cash a check for $360 billion dollars. Suspicious bank employees called the checks owner, who said the check was written on her account without permission. Police took the man into custody and found marijuana and a .25-calibur handgun in his pockets and said the man told them he needed the money to start his on record label.

My client watched Jeff Bennett chewing tobacco which led to an anxiety disorder. Mr. Bennett and Major League Baseball should be held accountable.

By Quack Quack

August 20, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Somebody explain that to me. Scott Boras need not respond.N8

LOL. Every time I think that you have posted the most asinine post that anybody ever could, you amaze me with an even more off the wall, egregiously ignorant utterance. It’s like you started out as a moron and have devolved through being an imbecile and are diving deeper into idiocy every day. Who thinks up this crap for you dude?

By DAP

August 20, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

howie but we didn’t have those issues back in the 90’s.

guys, c’mon. pichters got hurt when mazonne was here too. this isnt new.

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

One bright note we cann take outta that game is that they broke Not wRight’s 12 game hitting streak.

By fastasballs

August 20, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Face it people Cox is not going anywhere until HE decides to retire. I’d love to see some new blood on the Atlanta bench, but short of Chino’s hemroids expolding we’re not going to see any until at least 2010.

One good thing is the Braves are closing the gap to get a top 5 pick next season. Sorry , but that’s about all I see rooting for right now. At least in Sept we will get to see some kids come up from the minors. Is this not reminding everyone of the 80’s?

Regarding Glavine & Smoltz, If Smoltz can come back the Braves will give him a contract. Not only does he deserve it, but he was effective even with his age & injury he was pitching through. Glavine, ummm not so much. I think he’s done. Not only was not very effective when he wasn’t injured, but he did bolt for the Mets. Smoltz stayed for less & that stands for a lot these days.

We all know this team is more than 2-3 players away from being a contender. Even before the glut of injuries the team lacked fire & basic fundamentals needed to win. Injuries account for a lot, but you can’t blame the entire season’s failures on them. So many games were blown early because they didn’t play sound baseball.

As I said before 2009 is going to be a building block for 2010. Reagrardless the front office & management needs to take a hard look at existing players. A player’s character really shows in meaningless games & short of a few players I’m not seeing much for them to be pleased with.

By steve0321

August 20, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

I had my labrum repaired about 6 months ago. I cannot imagine how Smoltz has pitched with it torn. The dude is an iron man!

By Braveheart

August 20, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Do a scouting report on how well the Braves field:

http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

if mike gonzalez was available, why wasnt he brought in to face delgado with the bases loaded? that was the biggest spot in the game. there was a lefty up to bat that strikes out alot, has lost bat speed and is vunerable to high strikes, and mike gonzalez was available. i cant BELEIVE he wasnt brought in right then. or maybe even be fore that to pitch to beltran. stupid, stupid move.DAP

This confirms to me that it absolutely does not matter what decision is made, it will be second-guessed here. You honestly can’t understand why, with five outs to go, Cox would bring in one of the most effective situational lefty relievers in baseball this season, Will Ohman, rather than the closer who’s two months back from Tommy John surgery rehab and who has been bothered by a tweaked hamstring?

You can’t understand why Cox and McDowell wanted to get through that eighth inning and use Gonzo in the ninth to get a save, if at all possible, rather than ask him to get five outs?

Gonzalez has made 20 appearances since he got back, and only twice has he been used to get more than three outs. He’s gotten as many as five outs just once in 20 appearances, and you though this was the perfect time for him to do it a second time, while Ohman sat there ready to face a lefty?

Ohman, who has a .178 opponents’ average by lefty hitters, with six extra-base hits in 90 at-bats, and a .289 slugging percentage allowed.

That was a “stupid move” to use him against a lefty instead of Gonzalez, who has a .188 opponents’ average (3-for-16) with three extra-base hits and a .563 slugging percentage allowed?

It was “stupid” to use Ohman, who in late-and-close situations like that, has a team-best .140 opponents’ average (8-for-57), instead of Gonzalez, who has a .227 OA (5-for-22) in those situations?

Please explain why it was a stupid move to use Ohman over Gonzalez in that spot, and you don’t even have to take into consideration that he’s had a tweaked hamstring (you might not have read that on the blog, so no big deal, don’t even take that into account).

Presuming Gonzalez’s leg wasn’t even a factor last night, I’m just trying to understand what made that a stupid move, to use Ohman, who’s been your most reliable reliever in that spot all season, to try to get through the eighth inning with him rather than ask Gonzalez to do something he’s done once since he got back from TJ surgery — get five outs.

By JC FROM UT

August 20, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Someone earlier mentioned Aubrey Huff. He could probably be had for Lillibridge. Baltimore is really wanting a SS. I would look more into Luke Scott before Huff. Both left handed but Scott is younger and plays better defense. Huff would be ok if it was for 1st base.

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Brian McCann has a .545 batting average, a .615 on-base percentage and a .909 slugging percentage in 13 career plate appearances against Pelfrey. Bowman

Swell! Maybe this will be breakout night…

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Howie, good to hear from you (8:58 a.m.) that my suggestion about Smoltz and Glavine. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand how some would find that so objectionable or difficult to understand, to grasp the concept of their potential salaries being a one-time, unusual-circumstances case for one or two pitchers who’ve had Hall of Fame careers for the Braves and who are at the end of their contracts and may or may not want to try to pitch again next season, but who shouldn’t be counted on by the club to contribute or fill 25-man roster spots.

This is simply a way to treat them fairly without it hurting the club payroll-wise or preventing the Braves from approaching the offseason as though those two are NOT going to be on the team next year. If they do make it back somehow and can help the team, it’s a huge bonus, nothing more. Not something to count on.

And with Glavine, point could be moot by this afternoon anyway, if report from Andrews isn’t good.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett is disgusting with that big fat cheek of his. Sends a fine message to thousands of kids who watch him on TV. Why is chew tobacco still allowed in the major leagues?

Seriously? If you have kids, where does a baseball player chewing tobacco and influencing him/her rank on your list of concerns?

By BostonBravesGirl

August 20, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Mitchell, there is no closure in baseball.

By Life w/o Braves

August 20, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I don’t watch this team of misfits participate any longer. At least this has motivated me to start working on home improvement chores these days. The Olympics have been enjoyable also. I fear unless some major changes are made and unless Cox departs, next season will be even less entertaining and far more disappointing.

By Mitchell

August 20, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I think everyone can agree that whether you’re the type to want Bobby to stay and you still think Smoltz and Glavs are totally coming back next year… that this team, this franchise is living in the past and has been for too long.

Don’t try to insinuate that these guys have any resemblence to any team in the ’90s or even in the early part of whatever the hell decade this is.

I realize that there is a giant Tomahawk above the jumbo screen in center field but I swear to God the Tomahawk Chop needs to go. Obviously the Tomahawk was on the team uniform going back to Boston, or Milwakee at the least, but is this damn thing going to go on forever? Is anybody aware of the fact that Deon Sanders got the Braves to start doing it when he joined the team because they did it at Florida State?

Oooold. Are we planning to still be doing it ten years from now? Sports fads come and go. I loved Chief Knock-a-Homa when I was a kid. Of course I didn’t realize how politically incorrect he or “it” was but he like a lot of mascots have become history.

I know it won’t happen but we need to get rid of the Chop. It’s a relic.

By Howie from Poughkeepsie

August 20, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

I didn’t mean to imply that Leo Mazzone had the best off-season conditioning program. Sorry I wasn’t clear. What I did want to communicate is that the Braves need to focus on a better program this off-season. I didn’t actually compare against other teams, but I would expect that the sheer number of Braves pitchers with arm issues in 2008 (Smoltz; Glavine; Moylan; Lerew; Acosta; Hudson; Soriano)seems to be due to more than just age. This cannot be just a coincidence. There has to be a better off-season program that prepares pithcers better for the rigorous season.

By BUSHWACKER

August 20, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

They better be making a decision Bobby Cox. Pitching issues aside, this team has too many good hitters to continue having these 3 hit 1 run performances. Francouer is lost out there and we need some one to light a fire under these young guys, unfortunately Lou Pinella isn’t available.

Too bad Pete Rose isn’t avail, he is just what this team needs to kick em in the butt, but I’m afraid we are doomed for a 4th straight year with no playoffs.

Chipper if you are smart you will take a que from TEX, go somewhere where you can make the playoffs and to a city and team that appreciates you.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

DOB, I guess DAP is thinking Gonzalez is the team’s best reliever, which I suppose is understandable somewhat. You could argue Gonzalez has the best chance of blowing away that part of the Mets’ lineup. But Ohman was a fine option in that situation. I agree that it was far from a stupid move.

By Lew

August 20, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Nolie-I know exactly what you meant and I agree with you about The Descent. Saw it a couple of months back and it was much better than I figured it would be. I have no desire to see it again.

Bullpen the same. Results of the game the same. No offense the same. Snipper is still a schmuck. Does much ever change? All my comments would be the same, too. Think I’ll go draw a picture.

By Steve from OH

August 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Barrigton Garland, DOB’s only “responsibilty” is to “do his job,” which he does quite well. Tell you what, why don’t you go ask your co-workers why they aren’t picking up the slack, and then come back and try to tell DOB how to do his job. Idiot.

Glad to see the “glass half full” brigade showed up last night.

On a more baseball-related note, I wouldn’t expect the Braves to spend every last cent of their freed-up cash this offseason, unless payroll goes up (50/50 shot). Looking ahead to the end of the 09 season, we don’t (I think) have too much cash coming off the books, and we’ll probably see a considerable increase in arbitration salaries for guys like KJ, Kotchman, Frenchy, and B-Mac’s yearly contract increase.

We’ll need to save some cash, too.

By Barrington Garland

August 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Frankly, I don’t want Glavine to come back, he’s done. Smoltz can have a spot on my team any day, a real competitor. What this team needs is to:

1. Fire Bobby Cox or encourage him to resign even though he signed a 1 yr extension. (If he wasn’t selfish & stubborn, he would step down himself)

2. Add a RH Power Bat

3. Cut the platoon crap in LF. No starter since Sheffield left.

4. Sign a #1 Starter.

All of the other deficiencies this team has is related to Cox. No heart and/or passion, keeping Corky Miller around for as long as he did when the guy is batting under .100 (what an absolute joke!), overusing the same bullpen guys, overplaying the lefty-righty matchups, and no player accountability. This idiot has cost us at least three World Series’. I hate Bobby Cox and I can’t wait for him to leave the Braves on whatever terms imaginable. Geesh!

By DAP

August 20, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

DOB in a quick response to your post, who is our best reliever, ohman or gonzalez? the answer is, gonzalez. i wouldnt have asked gonzalez to get 5 outs, i would have asked to get two outs in the biggest spot in the game. bases loaded one out with delgado up. i would have used my BEST reliever. the best reliever wasnt used…in fact, the best reliever was used when the other team had aleady scored several runs. thus, a stupid move.

i am not one of the constant second guessers, but if gonzo was available…which apparently he was, he should have been pitching in that spot.

By Steve from OH

August 20, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I agree with DAP that our best reliever should’ve been used in that spot, but it was by no means a stupid decision to put Ohman in. He’s been awesome all year.

By N8

August 20, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Quack Quack

Thanks for your support. I’m glad I can amuse you so much.

But rather than throw insults, how about answer the question at hand in the post you ragged on?

I’ll assume since you didn’t, it means you can’t.

You remind of the kid on the playground that when somebody asks you what 4+4 is, and you don’t know the answer, you just respond by saying….“You’re UGLY!”, and then you run away.

So I’ll ask it again….Can you explain why teams that have Tex hitting in the middle of the order CAN’T win on a consistent basis?

Just think…if you take a couple of days to answer it, and the Angels lose the next couple of games, they’ll be at .500 with him on their team.

Again. Answer the question, or butt out.

My tone, and sarcasm in the question, might be misguided, but ultimately it’s a good question, whether you like it or not.

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

I hate Bobby Cox and I can’t wait for him to leave the Braves on whatever terms imaginable. Geesh! Barrington Garland

I prefer your reasoned ALL-BOLD posts.

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Bolt just shattered Michael Johnson’s WR in the 200 meters. Won by half a second in 19.30. Amazing….

DAP, you didn’t take into account any of the other stats or conditions I presented to you, and who’s to say that Gonzalez is the team’s best reliever against a left-handed batter right now, in his second month back from TJ surgery? And to get five outs? Does nothing that’s happened in the past year, his return from surgery, the fact his velocity is not quite what it was yet, that he won’t be fully recovered probably until next season, that Ohman has gotten out lefty batters all season, has even better numbers against them that Gonzo does, none of that matters? Just “who’s your best reliever?” and run him out there to get five outs, regardless of anything else?

By southbeachdietfreak

August 20, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

I am just as frustrated as anyone else. Outside of Metropolitan Man, Sniper-69, or Mets fan in NY, I don’t think anyone is enjoying the way this team is performing.

It’s one thing to say you disagree with the way someone is running his team, but quite another to heap insult after insult upon someone who quite frankly has been doing his job better than anyone typing here could.

Let’s just say what we would do differently, and dispense with the name-calling.

Steve from OH,

Just had a thought… I think in the NFL salaries are often negotiated based on performance… i.e. they may get a relatively low base salary, but then get a bonus based on stats. Is that done in baseball? If so, I think it would be a good idea to help with some of the payroll issues.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 20, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

N8,

what TEX’s stat during his time with the Angels? Isn’t he hitting around .370? I don’t see where he’s the problem. Just coincidence if you ask me.

By Renegator

August 20, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure the $45 - $50 million that the Braves will have free after this year will be enough to fill all the holes.

They need at least two new offensive players - one isn’t going to be enough (Tex wasn’t enough when he was here). One of them will have to be able to bat cleanup (this means they will be expensive).

This team also needs at least two starters - one of which HAS to be a front-line starter (this means they will be VERY expensive).

Unless Liberty opens up the purse strings - next season will look just like this one. Wholesale changes have to be made.

By Yokohama Daze

August 20, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Good morning, All!

Anybody have a chance to see the U.S. - Japan tilt earlier? Scoreless through ten innings, with great pitching on both sides, before the American side broke through for a 4-2 win.

And who’s playing third for us? Mike Hessman, who was up for a cup of coffee with the Braves back in 2003-2004! Anyone else remember him? I always liked the guys, and was sorry to see him go. Got back to the bigs last year briefly with the Tigers. Would love to see a gamer like him win the gold.

By Yokohama Daze

August 20, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Good morning, All!

Anybody have a chance to see the U.S. - Japan tilt earlier? Scoreless through ten innings, with great pitching on both sides, before the American side broke through for a 4-2 win.

And who’s playing third for us? Mike Hessman, who was up for a cup of coffee with the Braves back in 2003-2004! Anyone else remember him? I always liked the guys, and was sorry to see him go. Got back to the bigs last year briefly with the Tigers. Would love to see a gamer like him win the gold.

By The Bard

August 20, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

As the losses mount and mount, Dave becomes testier and testier in his Catch-22 situation regarding Bobby Cox.

Methinks he doth kiss a-s-s too much.

By DAP

August 20, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

ok, guys. i will concede that saying it was “stupid” was a little harsh. ohman is a great pitcher. but i still think the best reliever needs to be in that situation. i dont care about closers or saves. i dont think stuff like that should factor in.

we could have used our best reliever for the toughest spot in the game, and then used ohman to get the bottom par tof the order.

it still may not have worked, but when you finally use your best reliever after the other team has scored 5 runs, i think you have to question that.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

DOB, I think what DAP is saying is you run your best reliever out there in the biggest situation of the game. You don’t necessarily run him out there to get five outs. You run him out there to get the outs you need in that situation. So he gets out of that inning, then maybe you bring in another guy to get the save.

Basically you use your best reliever when the game is on the line instead of letting the save stat dictate when you’re going to use your best reliever. I agree with him on that point. I’m not a big fan of the save stat because often it does dictate when a manager uses a certain pitcher. Managers will often save their best reliever for a save situation instead of letting him pitch when they desperately need outs in maybe the 7th or 8th inning. I’m not saying that’s what happened in this situation, but clearly it happens.

But I do see what you are saying: Who’s to say Ohman wasn’t the best option in that situation?

I actually see both sides of this. Gonzalez may be the guy most likely to dominate. But also, Ohman has been probably the best reliever all season. So either one was probably a solid choice. You could argue which one was the better option. I don’t think you can argue it was a stupid move to bring in Ohman.

By N8 (Master of egregiously ignorant utterance)

August 20, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

**southbeachdietfreak

“what TEX’s stat during his time with the Angels? Isn’t he hitting around .370? I don’t see where he’s the problem. Just coincidence if you ask me.”

It’s the argument that has been made on here since April. The man (despite his “numbers”), is NOT clutch. Period.

He had a grand slam against the Yankees, and a 2 HR game last week……BOTH IN LOSSES.

He compiles numbers that have no bearing on helping the team win.

Or didn’t you watch the first four months of the Braves season?

You say coincidence? To that I respond….six years of coincidence? The guy has never carried the load and his team on his back the way that Chipper has.

When Chipper is out of the Braves lineup, their record is remarkably worse during his career.

Tex’s teams are below .500 either way.

Some people have stated that the “pitching” on Tex’s teams is to blame. To that, I say, what about the Braves pitching in the first half?? It was at or near the top of the league in ERA, wasn’t it?

The guy is a pretty good hitter, that if surrounded by 8 other really good hitters, will probably coast through a nice career.

But the dude is not capable of being THE MAN in the middle of a lineup. Unless all you want your clean up hitter to do is pile up meaningless stats.

In the end, it may just be coincidence. I was just throwing the question out there.

I appreciate you actually answering/discussing it, rather than throwing insults.

By Andy K.

August 20, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Will you all come off it! My god. I’m disgusted to blog here, and quite frankly I wouldn’t blame DOB if he closed up shop today. Things are going bad this year, I know, but stop the whining, complaining, and finger pointing. First of all, some of you need to read DOB’s job description…he’s a beat writer, not the host of Jim Rome is Burning. Secondly, the one year things go completely south outta, say the last sixteen or so, you’re all calling for Bobby Cox’s head. The man is one of the best managers to ever live, and no matter how many times you don’t agree with his decisions, you’re S O L, because he’ll be making them the rest of this year, and at least all of 2009. It’s not Bobby Cox’s fault that almost everyone on the roster has been injured. It’s not Bobby Cox’s fault that Hudson, Smoltz, and Glavine all went down. Like Chipper said, don’t blame Bobby, he’s not the one out there everyday on the field, making the mistakes we are. I think what we have on this blog is a case of the losses. All of you have been so spoiled in the last two decades that when we have one bad season, you turn into crybabies. One season…imagine how hard the past had been for die-hard Rays fan, year after year of losing. Finally, of all you are losing it after DOB suggest bringing Glav and Smoltzie back. Well, before you hadn’t had a problem with forty-something pitchers before. There’s something to be said for respect for a player’s dignity. If Glavine comes back, it’ll mist likely be in a 4 or 5 spot in the rotation, and Smoltz in the bullpen. And believe me, they aren’t going to be unreasonable in their asking price. We’re lucky DOB is the awesome dude that he is. Other fans don’t have access to all this info, let alone know it exists. I’m sorry for the long post and the boldness, but I just couldn’t take it anymore!!!!!!

By Efrim

August 20, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Steve from OH

On a more baseball-related note, I wouldn’t expect the Braves to spend every last cent of their freed-up cash this offseason, unless payroll goes up (50/50 shot). Looking ahead to the end of the 09 season, we don’t (I think) have too much cash coming off the books, and we’ll probably see a considerable increase in arbitration salaries for guys like KJ, Kotchman, Frenchy, and B-Mac’s yearly contract increase.

We’ll need to save some cash, too.

Yes, people keep throwing out the 47 million dollar number. But it is probably more of 30-35 million, right? I can’t imagine the Braves overspending in a weak free agent class. Yes, they can trade for players with more expensive contracts, but I still can’t see the Braves spending all of that money. Even so, 30-35 million seems like more than this team has had to spend in a decade, or more.

By DAP

August 20, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

DOB have you taken into account that i said i wanted to get 2 outs out of gonzalez, not 5? did you take into account that gonzalez has a much higher strikout rate against lefties than ohman or that gonzalez still has more on his fastball than ohman, and was going against and older lefty with a slow bat who cant get around on high fastballs?

taking everyhting into account, gonzalez is our best reliever, and yeah, i run him out there.

By Chop Chop

August 20, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

The stupid move by the Braves was to enter last night’s game with their current roster. They should just forfeit games to maintain the integrity of the division race.

(I wish more people would write posts like this. I’d laugh more.)

By semiballcoach

August 20, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

hessman is a dave kingman wannabe——-126 k’s according to ba stats

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

The Bard, methinks you’re unoriginal and should never call yourself a bard of anything.

Catch-22? Yeah, right. I’ve said again and again, this isn’t one of Cox’s better years. He’s made some head-scratching decisions, such as keeping Corky for most of the season, such as leaving Acosta in during that game at Washington where he let him hit and come back to pitch a third inning, etc.

But you’re one of those who wants things nice and pat, wants to be able to point to one person and say “hold him accountable,” without taking into account all the circumstances both of that person’s employment history and the current conditions to which he’s been asked to work — in this case, the materials he has to work with.

Bard, stick to being the literate bard that you are, and leave the complicated, real-life decisions to those paid lots of bucks to make them. Me, I’ll report on them.

You think the GM who put together this team should be fired? Or the manager asked to make something out of this team be fired, his Hall of Fame career be damned? Or the hitting coach, the one some here think messed up Andruw Jones’ swing. Fine. Keep demanding it. You’re within your rights to do so. Just don’t expect everyone to agree with you or with the group of you who feel that way.

Absolutely laughable, that last one by the way, about Pendleton screwing up Andruw’s swing. This isn’t directed at you, because I have no idea where you stand on that one, pretentious Bard of the office cubicle. But those of you who think that about Andruw, plenty of players and coaches from both the Braves and Dodgers would just love to fill you in on the background of Andruw and his hitting approach, his, uh, willingness to listen to coaches; but that’s just one of many, many examples of the many things that go on behind the scenes, things you will never know, things we can’t tell you because guys won’t say them on the record and because you have to do your job without cutting off your nose to spite your face.

By the way, If Pendleton messed him up, what does it say for Mattingly? Isn’t he the Dodgers hitting coach? Fire the bum. What’d he ever do?

But the “Catch 22” with Cox — find another cliche to describe it, because that doesn’t make sense. There are plenty of people lined up at the AJC office, Braves fans, who’d love to see us all criticize Cox. The next manager, most likely, is going to give us better quotes than Cox — far better quotes. The next manager will have regularly scheduled interview sessions in the afternoon, like almost every manager (except Cox) does.

In other words, there is not a single reason why any reporter would praise Cox and have some hidden agenda to try to keep him in the job. Well, other than the fact that you retain your objectivity and, from watching and listening, from observing, you realize he’s still a very good manager, in terms of all the components of that job and what it entails.

But believe what you want. Rant and rave about firing him. Makes no difference to me. I’ll cover the team if he’s managing or not, and call them as I see them, not take the easy way out and parrot what others say: “Fire this guy. Fire that guy. Someone must be accountable! To me, the fan! I won’t accept anything less!”

Hey, you’re right, cubicle Bard: I just doth protested too much.

By Howie from Poughkeepsie

August 20, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Leadership and character are always best assessed during hard times. I was never a Bobby Cox fan and always a John Schuerholtz fan, but alot of the blame in what’s happening on the field belongs to Bobby and Frank Wren. No guarantees that John would be a doing a better job than Frank, but the Braves problems are alot more than the myriad of injuries. There is no heart. I live in NY and rarely see games so maybe I’m not being fair. However, I do listen on the radio and follow the box scores and the trends are clear. I blame Wren more than Bobby because he is responsible for the 25 men for Bobby to choose from. Obviously the team decided to move on when they traded Tex. I lamented over that but I knew it was the right decision. Kotchman is at least an alternative for next year - versus nothing. He can be traded for something if we go another route for first base. But why sign Tavarez? Why keep Kotsay in 2008 - even if we want him back in 2009? Miller as a backup was a bad idea in April and made even less sense in June. Why not bring up Josh Anderson and see what he can do.That has to make more sense than Greg Norton and Omar Infante in left field. Infante is a untility player supreme but not the answer for left field. There is so much potential on this team (McCann; Jurrjens; Gonzalez; Escobar and - YES - Francoeur). We should be trying things out for next year. For example: Carlyle and/Bennett as starters; Stockman as a setup man; Anderson in the outfield. Folks, this CAN be fixed but we need better thinking with our management - mostly Wren. This is so so painful, but I would be encouraged if I saw better leadership.

By flange1

August 20, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

If nothing else we need to take a positive outing from Jo Jo last night. He pitched well.

I really don’t understand the posts on this blog asking the AJC’s beat writer or it’s columnists to “ask the hard questions” of the Braves or Bobby Cox.

Are you folks so ignorant that you don’t see all of the injuries that this team has had all year? Have any of you folks never played a team sport and understand that a team can get mentally down from having injury after injury and that sometimes when a team has no chance for success, that guys don’t play so well?

Yes it is a shame that the Braves 2008 season is in the toilet.

It is a shame that the bullpen is so tired from being over used that the guys cannot throw strikes.

The plan for 2008 didn’t work.

Guess we have to regroup and see what can be done about 2009.

By N8 (Master of egregiously ignorant utterance)

August 20, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Andy K

Take a chill pill. “unlock” the ALL CAPS button on your keyboard and step away from the computer.

Nobody needs to wake up to getting YELLED AT like that. LOL!

“Secondly, the one year things go completely south outta, say the last sixteen or so, you’re all calling for Bobby Cox’s head.”

Uh….say wha???

You have been paying attention since the 2006 season began, haven’t you? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the bloggers are complaining and “calling for Bobby’s head”, because we just won 16 division titles in a row and now had a bad rash of injuries.

This team has been on a steady decline the pas 3 seasons, and with the current core of players, haven’t shown one iota that they know how to win.

Last time I checked, Bobby still chooses (or has a say), in his 25 man roster coming out of spring training, and STILL fills out the lineup card on a daily basis, and STILL picks who he wants to bring in out of the bullpen, right?

So, like it or not, Bobby has his hand in this mess, more than y’all want to admit.

Though, I do place more blame on the players for not producing. Injuries are what they are. Some might be avoidable, most are not. Can’t knock anybody for injuries.

But EVERY team has injury issues. Some work around it (like the Braves of the 90’s did, anytime somebody got hurt), and some fall on their faces.

By braves70

August 20, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

While I agree with Mitchell that the Braves are largely living in the past, I do like the Tomahawk chop. Some mascots or chants become part of a team’s persona. Georgia still has Uga, Tennessee still sings Rocky Top, and Alabama fans will always yell “Roll Tide”. As for the players and management, the Braves seriously need to move on to the next generation.

By flange1

August 20, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

DAP,

I understand what you are saying about wanting Gonzo in there instead of Ohman.

I believe that Gonzo’s hammy was hurting and that he would have taken the night off if he wasn’t forced into the game.

I think Ohman came in because he was the best guy that was available.

To me the bigger mistake was leaving Bennett in after the first walk. AS DOB has said, when he looses it, he looses it quick.

By N8 (Master of egregiously ignorant utterance)

August 20, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

DOB

“But those of you who think that about Andruw, plenty of players and coaches from both the Braves and Dodgers would just love to fill you in on the background of Andruw and his hitting approach, his, uh, willingness to listen to coaches…”

That’s what kills me Dave. (now you know I’m serious…I called you by your first name). If that is truly the case, then why on earth would they center the team around him for so long?

Of course, I “get” the fact that they weren’t gonna trade him during his 2 monster years. But what you said above, is ALL THE MORE REASON they should have dumped his azz before he became a 10/5 guy.

Who is in charge of this ship? You claim he doesn’t listen to coaching? Put his azz on the pine.

NOBODY is above the team, and if the coaches/manager are not able to do their job, because one of the super-stars refuses to listen, then that player (or the coach) needs to go.

I know this is not the military, but there has to be a chain of command and respect from below.

You claim that ALL players love and respect Bobby Cox. It appears as though Andruw didn’t. So why was he still in the damn lineup day after day?

The fact that you claim that coaches will state that Andruw doesn’t listen well, confirms what I’ve suspected all along….the inmates on this team have been running the asylum for years.

Flange1

Good point on Jo-Jo. Not to many (myself included), failed to mention how good he looked after the first inning. A pleasant surprise indeed. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

Amazing, isn’t it, how much better a player can look when they spend more than 3 days in AAA working on their game, huh?

By MGL

August 20, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

I’ll bet some of you are great at Monday morning quarterbacking also. What’s the point?

It is clear that Bobby was trying to get through last night with minimal BP impact, Bennett for two and Gonzo to save. So things started going wrong and he had to change plans. He did not “lose” the game, neither did Bennett, Ohman, or Taveres. This is supposed to be a team work effort. To single out any individual makes no sense. Might as well balme JoJo for the loss because of the 1st inning. Or perhaps it was McCann’s fault for going 0 for 5.

This is a team not playing its best because of the physical and mental toll of a ridiculous run of injuries and some individual slumps. There have now been 19 players on the DL, and over 1,000 player days missed due to injuries.

How about more positive vibes for these guys and less criminalizing of every single mistake and decision.

By Lew

August 20, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Flange-You perhaps expect that people here are going to realize that on a 25 man roster, the Braves have had 20 players visit the DL a total of 28 times and think they will realize that might be a problem? Don’t you know that injuries are excuses and that Bobby Cox and Terry Pendleton put them there? Makes about as much sense as thinking it took the Major League pitchers 2 1/2 years to figure out that Francoeur swings wildly at almost everything. Right?

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Neight Amazing, isn’t it, how much better a player can look when they spend more than 3 days in AAA working on their game, huh?

Haha…So true…

I felt so bad for Ho-Ho last night. He should have gotten the win! That was pathetic.

By Bring me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

August 20, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

I’m not smart enough to know whether Ohman or Gonzalez was the correct lefthander to bring in with a 3-2 lead, bases loaded, Delgado up and five outs to go. But if Gonzalez’s hamstring was really an issue, what in hell’s the point of risking injury by bringing him in once the Braves were down 7-3?

Even Terence Moore wouldn’t have Cox’s back on that move.

By Efrim

August 20, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

All that has happened this season, and people are still complaining about Cox. It’s amazing. He has probably had an off year, but this team has been unfortunate and injury plagued from the start. Not much a manager can do when he continually has to reshuffle the lineup and rotation day in and day out.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

If that is truly the case, then why on earth would they center the team around him for so long?

Why wouldn’t you center your team around one of the greatest defensive players of all-time and an above average offensive player (until his last season with the club)?

By flange1

August 20, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Lew,

It is amazing how some of these folks “think” if that’s what they call it.

Frenchy gets in a slump - Fire TP.

Boyer’s arm is falling off from over use, fire mcDowell or better yet fire Bobby Cox.

Glavine got injured for the first time in his 80 year career, fire Frank Wren for signing him.

I am sure that all of these folks make 100% of their decisions in their job correctly every day and if one of their decisions does not work out through no fault of their own, well let’s fire him anyway just for the heck of it.

Sometimes I don’t understand screaming and moaning about things that you can’t change. But then again it is a blog and folks like to see their words in print and like to make a splash!!!

Lots of splashed lately and very little substance………

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

MGL—

You’re correct. It makes no sense to single out one guy to blame. But you can’t blame Ho-Ho, and you can’t blame Chipper. The rest of the team, yeah (0-5 with 8 LOB is very bad, but you’re right in that it’s a team thing.)

By Chop Chop

August 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Quick question for the blog:

If the Braves have a losing season in 2009 and Bobby Cox decides that he wants to manage in 2010, do the Braves bring him back for another season?

By Renegator

August 20, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Guys,

You can’t blame this whole bad year on injuries. This team sucked before the injuries starting piling on. How effective was Glavine before he was injured? Matt Diaz? Manny Acosta? Chuck James? Brayan Pena, Buddy Carlisle?

I mean, come on. Quit using injuries as the only excuse. All teams have injuries to key players - it’s part of the game.

The injuries that truly hurt this team this year were Smoltz, Soriano, and Moylan.

Chipper missed time - can’t say that the Braves didn’t see that coming. It happens every year. Hampton - the Braves said they weren’t counting on him this year. Hudson - he got hurt after the season was in the tank. His injury actually hurts the Braves next year.

Yes, injuries have been a problem for this team - but they aren’t the only reason this season went into the tank. Player under-performance (Tex, Francoeur, KJ, Esco) and bad managing have had a just as big of an impact on the season as well.

Blaming the awful season on injuries is just denial and it hides the real problems with this team. The “next generation” Braves (KJ, Francoeur, Boyer, etc) just aren’t that good. That is the true problem with this team.

By southbeachdietfreak

August 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Andy K

Take a chill pill. “unlock” the ALL CAPS button on your keyboard and step away from the computer.

Nobody needs to wake up to getting YELLED AT like that. LOL!

N8

Not to “insult” you, but just to point out, Andy K’s comment was NOT in ALL CAPS.

By Jeff321

August 20, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Maybe its just me, but I think people are still getting “beat reporter” and “columnist” mixed up. The main problem being, the AJC seems to employ only pro-Cox columnists.

With that said, DOB is a beat reporter. So, the columists should be the ones catching the slack for writing pro-Cox propaganda.

Mind you, this is coming from a very proud Cox hater. So, how about snuffing out the “baiting” and “taunting” directed towards DOB?

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

If a manager has won almost 56 percent of his career games over 28 seasons, should he be fired? How about if it’s been over 26 seasons since his teams have had back-to-back seasons under .500?

By Efrim

August 20, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Renegator

I agree that injuries is an excuse used far too often, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a good reason. I will say that the Phillies had their large share of injuries in 2007 and won the division….of course that took an epic regular season collapse from the Mets, but still.

By MGL

August 20, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

You miss the point, when the team wins, it’s because of the players, It is only the manager’s fault when they lose.

By StingerSplash

August 20, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I guess in your haste to respond to Bard, you didn’t compose your retort in iambic pentameter. Because that would have been funny to see that.

By Braveheart

August 20, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

If the Braves have a losing season in 2009 and Bobby Cox decides that he wants to manage in 2010, do the Braves bring him back for another season?

Only if you set aside $3 million you wouldn’t otherwise put in the budget and pretend it’s not in the budget - although it has to be in the budget because how can you spend something that’s not really in the budget - what kind of budget would that be? You can’t spend what you don’t have unless you really do have it but are simply pretending not to have it. I’d rather they overpay for possible future Hall of Famers than overpay for washed up Hall of Famers.

By Renegator

August 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I am not one who believes that Cox should be fired. I think he deserves the right to leave on his own terms.

That being said. I am disappointed that he is still around. You can only get so far on past performances. At some point - you have to look at current results.

Truth of the matter is - over the past 3 years - this has been a sub .500 team. Next year will almost assuredly be four years.

Cox needs take a long look at himself in the mirror and determine if he is really the best manager for this current group of players. The on-field results over the past 3 years say “no”

Cox has nothing left to prove. All he is doing by staying on with the Braves is tarnishing his own legacy and making his winning percentage lower by the day. I would think that with the bleak future ahead of this team (2009) that he would want to get out. Obviously, he doesn’t.

But, I do agree with you that he should not be fired.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

The “next generation” Braves (KJ, Francoeur, Boyer, etc) just aren’t that good. That is the true problem with this team.

How do we know? Most of the “next generation” Braves are at least a couple of seasons away from what are typically peak ages for baseball players.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

MGL, oh, yeah. I did forget that. Also, the manager is completely responsible for one month of a season but the players are completely responsible for the six months prior.

By Jeff R

August 20, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

The jury’s still out on Frank Wren. I certainly wouldn’t vote to fire him. I think the ‘09 and ‘10 seasons will settle the question as to his effectiveness.

As to Bobby Cox - come on. Generally, managers win when they have the talent on the field and lose when they don’t. Anyone remember Casey Stengal, the great Yankees manager? Think all those New York championships were due to the manager? Go back and look at those rosters. You’ll find the answer there.

I’m far less worried about Bobby Cox than what Liberty Media will allow the Braves to spend on payroll, what the farm system produces and the talent that takes the field at Turner next season.

By Chop Chop

August 20, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

The Braves have a “black ops” budget that we don’t know about. They keep a lot of things off the books. For example, did you know that Chris Resop was actually getting $10 million this year? It seems that he’s big buddies with the Chick-Fil-A folks. That’s why we’ve got 40 feet of unholy bovine pagan idolatry hovering over the crowd and choppin’ up their souls every home game. The Cow likes smaller crowds. It’s easier to entrance them with its demon eyes.

Anyway, that $10 million was completely unaccounted for in the budget. So were the 20 free red and green sweaters that Julian Tavarez demanded be a part of his deal.

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Renegator, I think as long as there are players around who have played under Bobby Cox, we won’t have to worry about his reputation. Plus there are all those division titles and winning seasons.

By flange1

August 20, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Renegator,

Sorry I disagree with you at 12:26. I believe that injuries have been the MAJOR problem for the Braves in 2008.

You mention bullpen folks like Acosta and Carlyle, heck lets include Bennett and Boyer in the mix as well saying they were not effective before the injury bug hit. I don’t agree. The loss of Soriano early in the year impacted the rolls that all of the other pitchers had to play. Boyer and Acosta were used in closing roles when they were originally thought to be middle relievers. Bennett was supposed to be the long man, but ended up starting, pitching middle relief, being the short man and even the closer.

Without the injuries to the pitching staff, Bobby could have placed in folks in rolls and let them get established in those rolls.

Because of the injuries, Bobby was forced to use pitchers too much and forced to use them in situations that they were not comfortable.

That is important to a pitcher, knowing the roll that he is pitch.

The offense has not been as good as we hoped, but agin injuries have forced people on the field who started the year in back up rolls.

By brent a.

August 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Between April 17 and May 22, the Braves record was 21-12.

I only bring this up because it was a time before all the injuries set in to this team and even though were were not leading the division, we were still competitive and there was reason to believe that if and when our bullpen got healthy, we could actually win the division.

Now, to be fair, I thought this team stunk from Day 1. They seemed to be “the same” to me, and after a few weeks, I felt that it was confirmed. More of the same.

That being said, this team was good for that 5-6 week stretch, and I think it’s appropriate to point it out, for all those who want to act like this team has been, is, and will be, completely terrible, and that injuries are not worthy of mention, when it comes to discussing the Braves’ performance this season.

By IVSPORT

August 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

The best the Braves can do right now is play spoiler and hope for a high draft pick and use it to get an impact player. I want to see Glavine and Smoltz retire as Braves but they are of no use to the team at this point outside of PR because of their popularity with the fans. This team needs to rebuild and resigning old veterans is not the way to start the process.

By Renegator

August 20, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun

On field results tell me that the “next generation” Braves aren’t that good. Their stats aren’t that good. You’re a stat guy - look at their stats - they tell you the story.

Will they be good in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years? - who knows. We DO know that they aren’t good now. So do we just sit around for several years, twiddling our thumbs and hoping that they get better? Is that the solution? Sounds like a crappy plan to me.

By Quack Quack

August 20, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

But rather than throw insults, how about answer the question at hand in the post you ragged on?

I’ll assume since you didn’t, it means you can’t. N8

LOL. You’re right I can’t, and neither can anybody else cause it is a totally stupid question to begin with. Only another idiot would even attempt an answer.

I know that to certain desperate people, negative attention is better than no attention at all, but my God man have you no shame? Does your solipsism know no bounds?

Get a life and then get a clue about real life baseball, puleese!

Just trying to help dude.

By Run Heap Run

August 20, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Heh. Good thing you weren’t blogging in the 80’s, DOB.

By Renegator

August 20, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

flange1

Other than Infante - name one offensive player on this roster who didn’t start this season as a starter at their position?

I can see maybe Blanco but he was going to get playing time regardless because of the possible platoon with Matt and the injury history of Kotsay.

Infante and to a degree, Gregor Blanco have had to step in to replace Matt Diaz in LF. I would say that Infante and Blanco have outperformed what Diaz did before he got hurt.

Therefore, I don’t think you can blame the offensive struggles on injuries.

The real culprits are Tex, KJ, Esco, and Francoeur who were all starters at the beginning of the year. They aren’t players filling in for hurt starters - they are the starters. And other than Tex, they will all be starters next year, most likely.

By gayle

August 20, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Renegator……. This team will NEVER fire Cox. To hear McGuirk talk about him, you would think that Cox is not only the greatest manager that ever lived, you’d think he invented the game!

Fans of baseball in this town have many reasons to be sad. The team is in decline. Age has finally caught up to the heroes of old, those silly yellow flags at the “Ted” are starting to weather and the only chance to see some good baseball is when a team like the Cubs comes to town.

Oh, and that is if you can get past the stadium disguised as Six Flags.

If there ever was a position for life, Bobby unfortunately has it.

By TheProfessor

August 20, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

DO’B great blog, great comebacks to some of the as*hats that post here. Tip of the cap to Mr. Bob Dylan and your choice of song. It is hard to digest 400+ comments but sometime let’s all talk about this thing that keeps poping up and could apply to the Braves with their age…greenies, speed, etc. or rather the lack of,this season.Peter Gammon wrote on it, and there have been many others. The lack of performance by older guys and the good play by the younger ones has been the single thing that has stood out MLB wide. NOTE: please do not say that so-and-so would not pop a pill after a 10 inning getaway game and a cross country flight and then an early game time. I just think it is very interesting.

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

LOL, Run, Heap, Run!

I cannot believe that Grove hit another triple last night!

}: |

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Renegator, I’m a common sense guy. And an evidence guy (stats are part of that). And the evidence tells me that the young players for the most part are hanging in there at the major league level and that players generally peak around 26-29.

So, will they be good in 2, 3 years? Of course we can’t know for sure, but we know it’s just as likely they’ll get better as it is they’ll stay the same or get worse, if not more likely. But I’m just basing that on evidence and reason.

As to Bobby Cox - come on. Generally, managers win when they have the talent on the field and lose when they don’t. Anyone remember Casey Stengal, the great Yankees manager? Think all those New York championships were due to the manager? Go back and look at those rosters. You’ll find the answer there.

Great points. I don’t believe a manager can’t make a huge difference. Why do I believe this? Because players generally perform fairly close to reasonable expectations. In other words players’ performances usually don’t drastically stray from reasonable expectations when they go from one manager to another.

So say a great manager is worth 3 extra wins a year. The question would be is Bobby Cox worth 3 extra wins, 2, 1, 0, does he cost the team wins? It’s not why doesn’t he turn an 80- or an 85-win team into a 90- or 95-win team. I think this is what the Cox haters are asking him to do and/or that’s what the Cox haters think is attributed to him by the people who believe Cox is a great manager.

By McFann Ô

August 20, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Gayle—

Other than Z hitting for the Cycle, I didn’t see any good baseball when the Cubs came to town.

By N8

August 20, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Quack Quack

“LOL. You’re right I can’t, and neither can anybody else cause it is a totally stupid question to begin with. Only another idiot would even attempt an answer.”

Why is it a stupid question? All I asked was if anybody NOTICED that Tex’s teams (including the 08 Braves, and to an extent the Angels), have performed WORSE, in terms of wins and losses, with him on it?

Then I asked if anybody could explain it?

Why is it a stupid question? Again. Rather than answering the question (or attempting to), you throw out insults, calling the question stupid.

You can drop every word in the book at me, call me whatever you want. But every time you side step the question, and sling another insult, it becomes clearer who’s closer to being and idiot.

“Get a life and then get a clue about real life baseball, puleese!”

You mean like the “real life baseball” where Tex’s teams have consistently been losers? That’s what I’m trying to GET A CLUE about.

“Just trying to help dude.”

Oh. Well in that case, never mind. Thanks for your input.

By northbeach Scott

August 20, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

The Braves actually have an outside chance at losing 100 games this season! If they can keep up their pace of losing 6 of every 7 games they will finish 62-100.

This development is very exciting, because surely the Braves would seriously have to dish some blame to Bobby Cox for a 100 loss season, regardless of injuries. Perhaps this would be the chance to get Fredi Gonzalez on board and kick the slackers in the rear.

While 100 losses may be out of reach, the Braves have an outstanding shot at 95 losses. Go Braves!

By the way, for all of the Cox defenders, Wren cannot force us to renew our season tickets. That is the best way to send a message about our displeasure with Bobby and the pathetic effort.

By David O'Brien

August 20, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOGGAGE up at any minute, just punched it.

By Ronald Millsaps

August 20, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

pitch*

I like the post concerning Mark Teixeira. Yes, there was a HUGE difference between not having Chipper in the lineup versus not having Teixeira in the lineup. Having said that, the Braves still should play better when Chipper’s not in the lineup than they do.

“Robert S”—Dale Murphy might get a shallow sleight from ignorant voters over the juiced-ball era that began in ‘94, but his average is probably what hurts him the most. However, I agree that he’s a definite Hall of Famer (with emphasis on the word “definite”) and that his power, speed, defense, and upstanding means of carrying himself on and off the field get him in.

Today’s thought: If he doesn’t get in, will he be the only player with two MVPs not to be inducted?

(He’s a lot better than the overrated Cal Ripken, Jr. and Kirby Puckett…a lot better—two of the most overrated athletes in sports history.)

“Brent A”—I’m pretty sure you recently referred to the Braves’ season in a different column (if it wasn’t you, it was someone else who goes with a name and an initial) and addressed the game where Kelly Johnson dropped that pop-up against Philadelphia. I hope you remember that that event was only the icing on the cake for that loss, as the team squandered multiple opportunities and attempted a suicide squeeze at a horrible time—a horrible performance all the way around, and in Kelly’s defense, he did have to run about 40 yards just to get there. Also, in response to expectations being unrealistic before this season, there’s no question that the talent level was there; the execution has not been.

On a different note, the Falcons might be the NFL’s surprise team this season. I’m serious. Bobby Petrino is gone, which will help immensely, and the team actually looks organized. As for the Michael Vick era being over, not only did he do something horrible, but his professional career pretty well ended when Arthur Blank and Jim Mora, Jr. wanted to make him into something he wasn’t; he was a weapon under Dan Reeves, who had enough sense—and not ego enough—not to meddle with him.

By N8

August 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

shaun

“So say a great manager is worth 3 extra wins a year. The question would be is Bobby Cox worth 3 extra wins, 2, 1, 0, does he cost the team wins? It’s not why doesn’t he turn an 80- or an 85-win team into a 90- or 95-win team. I think this is what the Cox haters are asking him to do and/or that’s what the Cox haters think is attributed to him by the people who believe Cox is a great manager.”

Great point. That’s all I’ve ever tried to say. While Cox’s personality and demeanor in the clubhouse suited the players of the 90’s, I’m not sure his “approach” is getting through to these kids.

But ultimately in games 1-162, it’s on the players. It SHOULD even out, that meaning the actual ability and talent of the players will shine through.

I think to an extent, a little more “spot-light” is on the manager come post-season, which is why Cox gets so much flack from the haters due to the playoff failures. But in the end, most of that is on the players as well.

I’m not as much of a Cox hater, as much as a guy that gets annoyed by people saying that he is the MAIN reason of the success of the 90’s.

The people that say that, can’t have it both ways. If he was responsible for the success of the Braves in the 14 year run, then to those same people, common sense would tell you that he is just as responsible for the failures of 2006 moving forward.

I’m not saying that it is his fault. I have stated that I wouldn’t mind a new “brain” in the dugout just for the sake of change. But to say that this season was lost due to injuries, is to say that without players Bobby isn’t worth many wins.

And by saying that, then you are ultimately saying that the 14 year run was basically because he had good players (that stayed healthy).

In football, good coaching (play-calling), can be the difference between a team making the play-offs or not, even though the players still have to execute said game-plan.

But in baseball, over 162 games, it can’t all be on the manager. That being said, running a guy like Francoeur out there day after day, is on him.

So where do you draw the line?

If Francoeur sucks. Which he has THIS YEAR. Is it on him for not producing, or on the guy that keeps running him out there? And don’t respond with “who else would he run out there?”

Uh….I dunno, I’m sure ANYBODY could hit around the mendoza line.

If there is an answer to that question, THERE lies the answer to the almighty debate of what Cox is worth to this team.

By Ned

August 20, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

JESUS!! I dont understand why some here keep bringing stuff from the friggin PAST!….I WANT TO SEE THE RESULTS FROM BOBBY COX NOW!!!! WHAT CAN HE DO FOR THIS TEAM NOW AND IN 2009..STOP LIVING IN THE PAST….and CLEARLY what im seeing now….are results i dont like…i suppose Liberty and FW dont like them too…soo…2009 another go for Cox…and we’ll see what happens…since this team is rebuilding…

2009 will be another awful year…face it..we’re not going to win the division next year..regardless who we sign,trade,etc…you have to put in factor what other teams do…what quality players they bring too…soo…i shoot for 2010 and beyond when this team starts winning again…

By Shaun

August 20, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

The real culprits are Tex, KJ, Esco, and Francoeur who were all starters at the beginning of the year. They aren’t players filling in for hurt starters - they are the starters. And other than Tex, they will all be starters next year, most likely.

And your point is…?

It’s only a problem if we assume that these players can’t improve. Not saying it’s a certainty but why should we assume it’s more likely that they won’t improve?

By BL

August 20, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

DOB Hope you are drafting up a new blog

By Horner's Corner

August 20, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Let’s please put Glavine and Smoltz to rest. These guys are 10 years past their prime and it seems painfully obvious that neither really cares about the team’s success. And PLEASE get Smoltz off the pre-game show. If he wants to do that sh*# he can retire and join the network, otherwise join the team and quit the shameless self promotion.

There is NO future for the Braves if they build around two guys in their early forties that are both coming back from arm surgery. And if the organization offers them incentive based contracts, then other decisions will be made with the hopes of their return. Cut the dead weight and sign guys that will have an immediate impact. Get a #1 starter and a leftfielder with power now and talk about resigning Hampton and Hudson for a backup plan. Again, Glavine and Smoltz are done!

By Ronald Millsaps

August 20, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

“Ned”—Don’t use the name “Jesus” as a slur like that.

“corner”—Your information is totally wrong. John Smoltz is still as qualified as any pitcher in the majors—and very possible more so— to get any hitter out. Feel free to re-read the last sentence. Have you not been paying attention? He hasn’t lost any talent and still is dominant—not just good but dominant. Health is his only issue.

As for the people who talk about this team’s “need to rebuild”, you should pay attention also. Look around: This team is young and in many ways green. I love it, though. The future looks bright for this squad, and 2006 was simply a transition year where our losing Rafael Furcal was the first of several setbacks which resulted in our not winning the division for the first time since 1990. The needs for the team did NOT fall into the “rebuilding” category. My main problem with the team’s approach to success since 2006 has been the overall lack of adjustements, and Bobby also refuses to go with the hot hand and instead the rightie-lefty matchup essentially every time. (He pulled Deion out of Game Six of the ‘92 World Series, even though he was hitting around .500, for Ron Gant, who was struggling mightily.)

Overall, it can be hard to see where players are best-suited in the order. I respect that reality, but you need to use your players where they’re best suited. I said before the year that offensive execution was the team’s make-or-break point, and a friend of mine told me I had nothing to worry about in this department and that I was worried about nothing. Well, it has been the team’s main problem, even more than all these blamed injuries.

Last thing: We heard a lot last season—not necessarily from the Braves but from around the Braves—that this team needed more pitching. Well, it had two aces and three subpar starters, which is twice the number of aces that Philadelphia had, though their other starters were a bit better. Anyway, there were no excuses around Philadelphia, just higher levels of expectation and professionalism—and immense leadership from Jimmy Rollins, who said his team was the team to beat in the division prior to the season and then led the charge with one of the best seasons in history, culminating in a 7-0 record against the Mets down the stretch. They didn’t win by coincidence last year.

By Irene

August 20, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

I wish all you Braves bashers would just give up on the Braves & find another team to root for. Then the real true fans can finally have some peace. You got what you wanted—-Tex is gone. Frank Wren should be gone—-mistake in trading Tex in the first place. As for Smoltz, Glavine, & Hampton, I say keep them. Give them a chance to see what their arms will let them do. They didn’t get that chance this year because of all the injuries. Glavine said he would only pitch if the Braves wanted him, (if he’s able) next year. They couldn’t help it because they were hurt. Lets keep Kotsay. He’s a good CF & can get hits, too.Don’t let Chipper go. Try to get Brian Giles & let him go to RF & let Frenchy go to LF. Then get Leo Mazzone back as pitching coach or at least get let him help the team some way. Then when Smoltz retires, & Bobby retires offer the manager’s job to Smoltzie or Mazzone & pitching coach to the other. I think Smoltzie would be good at either one. But if he didn’t want either one, then put him in the announcer’s booth with Joe Simpson. That would be an awesome team. Put Boog on the radio broadcasts. What , let’s just say if all the big name pitchers, & the others you bashers want to get were signed with Atlanta next year, then after the season starts,all of a sudden all the starting pitchers start getting hurt,just like they did this year,would you say then. Would you want to trade them, right after they were just signed. It happened this year, it could very well happen next year.