AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > August > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIs this the end for Glavine?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
When Tom Glavine left Thursday’s loss to Cubs after giving up seven runs in four innings, he might as well have handed a baton with “Braves pitching” on it to Jair Jurrjens, who will start tonight’s series opener against the Giants.
Because it sure felt like a changing-of-the-guard moment to me. Oh, sure, plenty of signs before this indicated that Glavine was probably done, that he might not have enough left in that arm to finesse his way to more wins to add to career total of 305.
But long-time observers have learned not to completely count out these wily old dudes — Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux — until they’re officially done. And with Glavine, you had to wonder if perhaps he’d come back a little refreshed after nine weeks on the DL, though you also had to know 40-something athletes don’t exactly heal magically, unless they find a fountain of HGH … er, fountain of youth.
And fortunately for those who care about their memories of the great Braves Big Three, there has never, ever been any link, no whispered suspicion, nothing to link them to any of the stuff that probably helped a few other 40-something ballplayers stay at the top of their profession at an age when history, and human physiology, says they should have been fading.
But anyway, back to Glavine. Like many, I thought it was a good idea for the Braves, who didn’t have $15 million in their budget to spend on a pitcher last winter, to instead bring Glavine back to Atlanta for one year and $8 mill.
Say what you will about his age and final few terrible starts with the Mets, but the facts remained: he’d never been on the DL in his career, had pitched 200 innings last season, had won 13 games last season (third consecutive season and 15th time in past 17 seasons that he had at least that many wins), and had made at least 32 starts in every 162-game major league season since 1990.
But now, the evidence suggests that Glavine is near the end of his Hall of Fame career, at least in terms of being a viable, innings-eating starter who gives his team a chance to win most times he gets the ball.
Maybe he’ll reel off a few wins in the last six weeks of the season and feel like coming back. Perhaps he just needed to shake off the rust last night, and maybe his starts before he landed on the DL for the second time this season should be dismissed because he was pitching with a barking elbow.
Still, it’s hard for me to watch a great pitcher struggle like he has recently, and realistically, it’s hard to be positive about his chances of returning to anything even remotely similar to the pitcher he was before.
For his sake, if he wishes to continue pitching and feels like he can do it, I hope I’m wrong. I really do. He’s absolutely as classy and accommodating, not to mention intelligent, as any player I’ve covered. Oh, yeah, extremely intelligent.
Folks, here’s a secret: We sometimes have to clean up a quote a bit, remove an excessive “you know” or two, or edit a long-winded response with elipses (…) to make it readable or make it fit a 20-inch story without bogging everything down.
Not with Glavine. Dude is more articulate than most folks who make their living as public speakers. You take a quote from him and just plop it into your story, word-for-word, usually without need for paraphrasing, since he generally says it better than the writer can.
Alas, intelligence and guile alone aren’t enough when the physical skills fade and the stuff isn’t there anymore. The great Maddux still has tremendous movement on his pitches, and some semblance of the pinpoint control he had at his peak.
What I’ve seen recently from Glavine is a diminished fastball, which makes it hard for him to be effective with any of his other pitches, most of which aren’t as sharp or consistent as they were.
And if the umpires aren’t giving him pitches a few inches off the plate, well, it’s probably going to be a long night. These days, umps don’t give that strike like they used to.
That line between fading-but-effective and fading-and-not can be a fine one, particularly when pitching for a struggling team.
Consider that in 62 starts for the Mets, from the beginning of the 2006 season until Sept. 8, 2007, Glavine went 28-13 with a 3.88 ERA and .268 opponents’ average in 380-1/3 innings, averaging more than six innings per start in that span. His team was 42-20 in those games.
In 17 starts since then, Glavine is 2-6 with a 6.42 ERA and .312 opponents’ average in 81-1/3 innings, averaging just over 4-2/3 innings per start. His teams are 3-14 in that stretch.
Let’s hope Glavine, if he wishes to continue pitching, knows something about his body, knows there’s enough left to do the job well.
Kotsay’s resurgence: If any contending team was on the fence about trying to trade for Mark Kotsay, the center fielder’s 5-for-5 night Thursday, including the rarity of hitting for the cycle - single, double, triple, homer - might well have been the impetus to get a deal done.
Trade interest had been minimal, in terms of teams willing to give up anything that might help the Braves right away or a decent prospect that might help them in the future.
But if the Rays or another team decide that Kotsay might help for the final stretch, that could change quickly. Don’t know if Kotsay has been put on or cleared waivers yet, but if not, and if he were put on waivers and got down to the contenders, Red Sox could put in a claim to block and keep him from falling to Rays.
And if Sox wouldn’t offer anything of value in a trade for him, Braves might pull him back. No sense just giving him away, though some here on the old blog act as though Braves should take anything, absolutely anything, to get him out of town and get, say, Josh Anderson up here and in center field.
I gotta say, I don’t follow the logic. It’s like, OK, the Braves were woeful these past four games, and Kotsay has been one of the few bright spots, really hitting the ball well after struggling in that first week back from the DL.
Kotsay has hit .359 (37-for-103) with 10 extra-base hits, 14 RBI, a .400 OBP and .505 slugging percentage in 27 games since July 8, after going 1-for-20 in his first six games off the DL at the beginning of July.
He hit .317 with 20 extra-base hit and 33 RBI in his last 66 games before going on the DL for the bulging disc in his back.
If you don’t count that six-game stretch after he came off the DL, he’s hit .329 with 30 extra-base hits (seven homers) and 47 RBI in his past 93 games.
And now, a few (or maybe it’s just one or two) of you sound asif you’d rather the Braves dump him for whatever, so they can be even harder to watch the rest of the season. That they lose 12-2 instead of 12-7, regardless of whether there is any serious trade interest in Kotsay or not.
If Frank Wren could have gotten something decent for him in a trade, don’t you think he’d have done it by now? Maybe he will after Kotsay’s performance last night, including his second home run in a week (two of only three homers by Braves outfielders in four weeks, the other by Jeff Francoeur last night).
But in the interim, why would you want to see spray-hitting Josh Anderson, good as he’s been hitting in Richmond, why would you want to see him manning center field instead of Kotsay? I mean, if the Braves can do no better than Anderson for next season in center, they’re not aiming high.
And if they were going to go with Anderson, or Schafer, don’t you think September and all of spring training are enough time to evaluate? What good would it be to have Anderson play 10 more games now? It’s not like he’s not played in the majors. He spent nearly a month with the Astros last September, played plenty, and played all spring with the Braves.
They know what he can do. Fully aware of that. He’s not 21, you know. He’s been around a while. They know what he can do.
On top of all that, Kotsay would like to play for Atlanta again next season if they want him back and he doesn’t get a much better offer closer to his Southern California home. He loves it here. So why dump him for nothing, if there’s a chance you’d want to re-sign him?
Sure, you can bid for him as a free agent whether he finishes the season here or not. But why have him go play somewhere else and have that team realize what a great presence he is in the clubhouse, etc, if you (Braves) have any intention of bringing him back?
Again, if you can get something for him now, something more than just a fring prospect or minor-league body, then I’d certainly understand doing it. But you don’t just give him away. Makes no sense.
It’s bad enough, losing so much down the stretch. But do you really want the Braves to be worse than they are, to have no chance at all most nights for the next weeks weeks because they’ve got only a few proven players in the lineup?
Boyer’s woes: Blaine Boyer leads the majors with 65 relief appearances. But after posting a 3.63 ERA and .228 opponents’ average in 43 appearances through June, Boyer has an 8.35 ERA and .306 opponents’ average in his past 22 appearances, including a 13.50 ERA and .382 OA in his past 11.
It’s not such a great thing when you have a reliever who leads the majors in appearances, but has a 5.00 ERA, which is where Boyer’s has risen to.
Sort of like - though not as bad — as Francoeur batting just .191 with runners in scoring position, worst among Braves regulars, and having 21 more at-bats in those situations (131) than anyone else on the team.
A fitting tune, perhaps: The fine singer-songwriter Chuck Brodsky grew up in Philly — smart man, he now lives in the mountains outside Ashville, N.C. — and said Steve Carlton inspired this song, but that it was not specifically about him. Rather, it’s about any generic, fading pitcher who once was great.
Braves fans can only hope that’s not the case with Glavine, as signs indicate.
”LEFTY” by Chuck Brodsky
Lefty’s in the minors, got his shoulder packed in ice
He’s trying to hang on there against all that good advice
Used to throw that sinker but that sinkerball went south
And then they started calling him for going to his mouth
Lefty holds the record for most strike-outs in a game
Once upon a time he really threw a ball of flame
Some wish he’d gone gracefully when his time finally came
They put Lefty on waivers but nobody laid a claim
It’s a Godalmighty shame — he got too old to play the game
Where he made himself a name — and they call him Lefty
Lefty wore the pinstripes for a good number of years _ The bleacher bums all loved him — they were tanked up with their beer
He used to throw that heater, but the radar does not lie
And now when Lefty lays one up there you can kiss that thing goodbye
It’s a Godalmighty shame — he got too old to play the game
Where he made himself a name - and they call him Lefty
Now they’re calling him from Cooperstown — out on the bullpen phone
Some little field in Bumfolk where the grass is overgrown
It’s the bottom of the 7th and a runner just got on
And they’re calling for a lefty … but Lefty’s not the one
There’s a capital L in Lefty, so say it with respect_
He’s Senor Lefty down in Mexico & he’s Lefty in Quebec
He could smoke you, he could fool you, throw a curve around your neck
He could paint one on the corners, he could fill the upper deck
It’s a Godalmighty shame — he got too old to play the game
Where he made himself a name — and they call him Lefty
Comments
By keylargo
August 15, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Tommy just can’t get by without that ball off the plate being called as a strike.
By N8
August 15, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I can’t, and won’t argue with you “dollar for dollar” value, over the next 3 seasons when discussing Manny, Dunn and Burrell. Most definitely, SOMEBODY is gonna over-pay for Manny.
I guess I wasn’t taking into consideration the value. Just the prediction of who I think will be the best hitter of the three.
If you are specifically talking about who the Braves should go after, I think my choice (if I had to choose between them), based on value and how our lineup already shakes up, I’d go with Burrell.
I think he’s a better outfielder than Dunn and certainly Manny. And the fact that he’s right-handed. We’ve already got McCann and Chipper (obviously more of a power threat from the left side).
That being said, if I’m Wren, I “pass” on all three of them, and work on some trades.
I would think that there would have to be a decent power threat playing a corner outfield spot that plays better defense than the three of them.
I’m still much more about having pitching and solid defense and timely hitting, rather than a lineup of hackers that don’t play above average defense.
I don’t have a problem having ONE GUY in the lineup that is a masher, and LF would certainly be the spot to put that guy. But I think over a 162 game schedule the teams that pitch and play defense in a solid manner will be consistently better.
That being said, we are very LOW in the power department, so I’m willing to concede some defense.
Besides, look at the Dodgers. They hung in there in the West with good defense and GREAT pitching, and then at the deadline added the thunder of Manny’s bat.
We could do the same thing. I believe that adding a power bat is the easiest thing to come by at the deadline, especially if a team is looking to dump salary. And we will certainly have wiggle room in the salary department. I can’t see Wren using up all of the surplus in salary over the winter.
Just because it’s there to spend, doesn’t mean he still won’t shop in the bargain bins.
By DAP
August 15, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
jefferyvan I vote this the highpoint of our season Braves Nation.Nice play Mark.
hitting for the cycle is cool, but dont you think smoltz’s 3000 strikeouts was better? i mean, smoltx is a brave lifer, and a first abllot hall of famer. id vote for smoltz’s K.
By Thrillhouse44
August 15, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Great point about not wanting to ship out a good piece for a mediocre fill-in. It’s painful enough right now, why wish for a worse team?
Also, not to completely count on these old dudes - Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux - until they’re officially done. I think “on” should be “out”, but it’s really all the same at this point, isn’t it?
By T-Bone
August 15, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves try and sign Michael Phelps!!
By Blaine Boyer is a round tub of goo
August 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Blaine Boyer is not an innings eater.
But he’ll eat just about anything else that’s not nailed down.
By Run Heap Run
August 15, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
It’s hard for me to watch Glav and Smoltzy struggle too, DOB. They deserve to go out on high notes but then, I guess if the high notes kept coming nobody would ever retire. As I was watching last night I was thinking “wonder if he’d consider being a bullpen guy” but ..yeah..like you said. It’s hard.
Kudos to Kotsay. That’s the first game I’ve ever watched where someone hit for the cycle OR went 5 for 5. Did you ask him if he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
I agree, I don’t think the Braves should give him away. I’d much rather them give French Fry away (joke).
Speaking of…I see Frenchy’s friends and family are voting for him non-stop on the “who will be the next brave to hit for the cycle” poll.
Myself, I votied Mac and said a prayer that Frenchy won’t be a Brave for that long.
By Shaun
August 15, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Here’s what Keith Law said about Glavine during this past off-season when he ranked the top 50 free agents (he ranked Glavine number 50):
Glavine may try to pitch one more year, but he’d be wise to remember the ignominious end of another lefty’s career (that of Steve Carlton). Carlton didn’t know when to walk away, and after a terrible 1987, he tried to come back one more time and gave up 19 runs in nine-plus innings before he was released. Glavine’s 2007 wasn’t as bad as Carlton’s last full season, but he posted one of the worst earned-run averages of his career, one of the worst ground-ball rates of his career and one of his worst strikeout rates of his career. Glavine’s stuff is down. His fastball is 80-84 mph, his change at 74-75 with visible slowing of his arm, his slow-roller curve at 75-77 — and none of it able to miss bats. Glavine has to pitch hitters away and avoid contact; if he’s not getting something extra on the outside corner, he’s doomed. He’ll get an offer if he wants to pitch, but even in a big park in the National League, he’s a 50-50 shot to get released or retire midyear. It’s been a great run, Tom — don’t push it.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
DOB
But now, the evidence suggests that Glavine is near the end of his Hall-of-Fame career, at least in terms of being a viable, innings-eating starter who gives his team a chance to win most times he gets the ball.
Anybody else get that deja-vu feeling reading this or is it just me?
Wait, there’s more!
What I’ve seen recently from Glavine is a diminished fastball, which makes it hard for him to be effective with any of his other pitches. And if the umpires aren’t giving him pitches a few inches off the plate, well, it’s probably going to be a long night. These days, umps don’t give that strike like they used to.
Hmm, this sounds very familiar too.
Spin the numbers anyway you want. I told you he was done. What you got from him (injury aside) is exactly what I told you he would give you. Slop off the plate that no one had to chase anymore.
I anxiously await your Soriano expose!
By Novice Ned
August 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Let’s say that there are 16 key players on a baseball team, 8 starting position players, 5 starting pitchers, 1 really good set-up reliever, a lefty reliever and a closer. 16. How many of those 16 do the Braves have “locked in” for next season and beyond? Here’s guessing that the answer is less than 8 (6 IMHO). So can a team truly rebuild with the same manager who has been with the club for 15+ years?
By John Adcox
August 15, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Man, that’s hard to read about Glavine. Punch in the gut hard. For me, the end of Glavine’s career really is the end of an era. One I’ll be talking about until my grandkids are sick of it.
As a life-long Braves fan and a native of Atlanta, I look back on the emergence of Tom Glavine, along with the arrival of Justice after the Murphy trade, as the beginning of the “new Braves.” The ones that won. A lot.
I hope fans in Atlanta will give him the send-off his career deserves. Yeah, yeah. I know some folks are still angry about yankee money from the Mets and the strike. I’m not too proud to admit, the Mets thing hurt. Coming home made up for it, at least a little. In south, welcoming our own back home is a part of the very fabric of who we are.
As for the strike, I was as angry as the next guy. Sure. But even then, when I looked at Glavine, I saw a guy who took the heat and stood by his principles, and who had the guts to stand in front as spokesman and take a bullet for his teammates. Maybe I disagree with the stance, but I like to hope I’d have that kind of courage. Tom Glavine is a man.
Bravo, Tom. Whether your last game was last night or years from now, we’ll miss you. And when we think of you in years to come, it’ll be game six in ‘95 forever. We love you for that one.
John
By Ander's Mom
August 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Anders is that you son?
Please come upstairs and help me give the cat an enema.
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
From last blog:
To Lew
You just cant expect to have a World Championship team if you are counting on:
Hampton: not active, future unknow.
Glavine: 42 and what comes with it (age).
Smoltz: 41 and with injuries in the near past.
Soriano: arm problems in 2007 and SP 2008.
Chipper: you know he will miss 30 or more games.
Gonzalez: not active and future unknown.
James: Injury plagued.
Kotsay: Back surgery.
I agree nobody could have guessed JF horrible season, but he was not looking like a great RF late last season.
I agree nobody could have guessed Matt was gonna be so much time out and that he was gonna sok so much, but, you were making an experiment with him, trying to make him an everyday player. That was a risk and it took the wrong turn.
What about TEX? How come he is doing so well in LA and he did so average here? He was batting behind Chipper and he could have hit in front of Brian.
What about Plan B for JF??? How come there was no plan B there?
Moylan goes down and all of a sudden our BP cant hold up games……. is there a championship team that can only count in 1 pitcher? no, not even the yankees with rivera. Plan B was soriano and you know the story.
In other words, Braves put themselves in this situation. Too many oldies, too many injury plagued players, too many experiments, too many lets see if he can hold up for the season.
We started the season LIVING ON THE EDGE and as a result GRAVITY TOOK CARE OF US. Cant go against nature.
You can take some risks but you cant have a team full of risks (already injured, rookies (too young) and injury plagued players, experiments) and expect to perform well. We are paying the price, no surprise there.
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Run, Heap, Run! Myself, I votied Mac
Well, he’s come a triple shy of the Cycle a couple times this year. And now we know he cann hit triples, so there’s no reason to not believe!
Man…I just found out that Francoeur’s favorite subject was math! Now what do I do?
; >
BTW—Tonight’s pitching matchup is exactly the same as August forth’s.
DON’T DEAL KOTSAY, WREN!! DON’T DEAL KOTSAY!
By Supes
August 15, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
DOB
Why “get rid of” Mark Kotsay when he’s swinging a hot bat? B/C he is NOT the long term solution to the Braves outfield and he is injury prone. That’s it. I agree that if had another 3-4 solid years left and he could play 150+ games for the Braves, keep him, resign him by all means.
Kotsay seems to be well liked, an exceptional team guy, does just about everything well.
The problem is he is not in the Braves long term plans. That is the point you fail to see.
It’s not about seeing what Josh Anderson can do or can’t do. It’s about building for the future. Maybe Anderson can be the 4th OF here next year? He still doesn’t have enough major league experience to project what kind of player he’ll be up here. Same with Shaifer, Brandon Jones or anyone else like Lillbridge.
Let these young guys get some playing time in september, and if it comes at the expense of a veteran like Kotsay who is not in the Braves long term plans, so be it.
Anders
I’m starting to figure out why you want Chipper Jones to go to the AL and DH.
He still smacks around your precious NY Mets on a pretty regular pace. He is still better than David Wright. Yeah, if I were a Mets fan, I’d want him gone to the AL to “get something in return and extend his career”;)
As I explained to you…it’s simple.
Chipper Jones is the Atlanta Braves.
Move on and save yourself some time.
PS…I’d be more focused on the Phillies and Fish if I were you, rather than coming in here discussing the struggling Braves.
By Shaun
August 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
N8, I see what you are saying. The way I view it, Manny obviously is still a dangerous hitter. But at 37-39 he’s very likely to drop off a good bit offensively plus he’s going to drop off defensively and running the bases even though he was never good at those things to begin with. So basically the team that signs Manny is going to be getting a guy who ranks around 6th-10th offensively among major league leftfielders (nothing wrong with that) but who will likely cost them in other aspects of the game relative to average players. And at the very least Dunn and Burrell will be as valuable as Manny but both will likely come significantly cheaper (although you may have to commit more years to Dunn or Burrell).
By Run Heap Run
August 15, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Yikes. I spelled “voted” wrong.
By flange1
August 15, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Great points in your blog on Kotsay. I would love to keep him and resign HIM to be the 4th OF, backup 1B and LH PH off the bench for next year. I could even live with a platoon if we had a young RH hitting outfielder to platoon him with.
If I am the Rays or the Red Soz, I would come calling on FW for Kotsay. I wouldn’t offer David Price or Masterson, but I would offer something of value.
I HOPE that Kotsay realizes that with his back he needs lots of days off and that he might not be a full time player and that he might expect to be paid like a classy part time player.
Certainly more than $500,000 like some here have suggested, but not $8 million.
Anders,
We have heard your Glavine stuff and your Soriano stuff for 6-9 months. Yeah we know what you have said.
On Glavine, the guy is hurt and has been for awhile. ALL of your crap does not apply because of the injury. Is he done? Probably. Would he be done if he was not injured? WHO KNOWS?
On Soriano, dude, if you read any of the postings out of Seattle, one of the reasons they traded him was that they were worried his elbow would explode. The Braves doctors looked at him before the contract.
You want to tell us he signed for below his true value. Maybe he signed for WHAT HE WAS WORTH knowing his elbow could explode?
Ever think of that?
By Milton Jeff
August 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Im so digusted with how the Braves played the series against the Cubs. I mean they got their a*******es handed to them. Congrats to Kotsay..sorry it went to waste. I’d say keep him..you never know. But also have Anderson/Schafer as back ups. Doc Holliday: Tex? Remember last year when the Braves picked him up, he went on a tear. He is doing the same thing for the Angels this year. I’ll bet he’ll fade in the postseason. Its time to part ways with the veterans of pitching. They were outstanding and great in every which way but its time to move forward with the younger crew. Braves cannot afford to waste time & money on players that run a higher risk of injury. Could somebody fill me in on Gonzo? Did he get hurt again?
By Not a Cox Fan
August 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
I have been watching the Olympics ( thankfully ) every night for the last week. Wednesday night when setting my clock radio alarm, I hit the power button and the Braves/Cubs game was on. My wife commented that she didn’t realize that the baseball season was still going. I told her not to feel bad that the Braves didn’t realize it either.
By Supes
August 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
run heap run
( *Speaking of…I see Frenchy’s friends and family are voting for him non-stop on the “who will be the next brave to hit for the cycle” poll.
Myself, I votied Mac and said a prayer that Frenchy won’t be a Brave for that long. * )
I voted Chipper, and I’m surprised he’s never actually hit for the cycle. I think he’s had plenty of games with a HR, a 2B and a single. It’s that pesky 3B that escapes him.
I’m with you on Jeff…if he doesn’t come back to form I’m praying he’s out of here as well.
By Southernfried4
August 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
My hope is that Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz all decide to retire at the end of the season and five years from now, all go into the Hall of Fame together — as it should be.
Can you imagine that induction ceremony in Cooperstown?
By Efrim
August 15, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Hey Anders, Braveheart and anyone else who listens to Mike and the Mad Dog.
It’s over:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/2008/08/14/2008-08-14chrismaddogrussooutat_wfan.html
By Ander's Mom
August 15, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Anders, sweetie.
Please stop blogging for a minute and come upstairs and help me give the cat an enema. He hasn’t used the litterbox in over a week.
By pj
August 15, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it this season was a BUST!!!!!! Thank god for McCann……he seems to be one of the few that can play ball on a day to day basis. Frecny really needs to go……….he even admitted he stinks this year. Chipper was a good player back in his prime…..but the past couple of years he has been sideline way too much because of injuries. I hope Wren does some soul searching for this team soon! Does anybody know what the BEACH patch means?
By BL
August 15, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Supes Your posts are too long and outlandish at that. I love how you think we can just “plug” up the corner outfield spots w/ young talent like Hermida/Willingham and an All-Star caliber free agent (Dunn) that will command mega millions. Please keep in mind that we have to stop the other team from scoring too (PITCHING)! Your plan would be great on my Playstation Braves.
Not to say our young talent will not develop and be good but they (Mgnt) will not call up 3 experiments to start a season. Francoeur had 2 great years before this years struggles. What makes you think an unproven player wouldn’t have the same, if not worse issues once ML pitching figured them out? And they aren’t even proven yet?
Not trying to be an @ss but did you go to Wheeler or a HS around here that rivals Parkview? The reason I ask is that you hate JF and seem to be on the Hermida bandwagon.
By Braveheart
August 15, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Efrim, you warned me bro. Never thought it would happen. Mike and the Mad Dog done. Sad, sad day. Two idiots. Will never be as good alone as they were together.
By Hoosier Aaron
August 15, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
I hope that Smoltz, Glavine & Maddux all retire at the same time. Wouldn’t that be a great day to be a Braves fan - when they are all inducted at the same time.
Kotsay seems like a great guy to have on your team. However, the art of trading is to do it when they are at peak value - I’d say that time is now.
As they say - We finished last with you, we can finish last without you.
By Shaun
August 15, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
On Soriano, dude, if you read any of the postings out of Seattle, one of the reasons they traded him was that they were worried his elbow would explode. The Braves doctors looked at him before the contract.
According to Doc on the last blog, all Soriano has to do to stay injury-free is stay in shape.
By THB
August 15, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
DAP-I don’t like the idea of getting Cameron. He was a solid player for a long time and continues to put up some power but I think there are better options. I like the idea of Bradley in LF, and other than that the rotation needs to not be solid-it needs to be stacked.
Efrim-I’m a little nervous about Bradley, but the guy can rake. He’d provide power, OBP, high average, but an occasional tantrum. He’s only 30, so he’ll be in his prime a few more years too. I know we won’t get Sabathia, but I’d be p** if we didn’t try. Sheets is a risk but for 4 years I would consider. Glad I’m not Frank Wren.
By Doctor Scholl
August 15, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Why does everyone keep talking about pitchers who are odor eaters?
I tend to think that pitchers exude more odors than they absorb.
By flange1
August 15, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
PJ,
BEACH is for longtime coach/scout/cool dude Jim Beachamp that passed away. A great individual and a class act.
By wick231
August 15, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
So, we gave up our 2008 1st round draft pick to the Mets, so we could sign a 40 something Glavine? Now I really loved Glavine in his prime, but that signing is looking really bad right now. We could have drafted an impact player who could have been with us for years to come. Instead we get a pitcher who is a future hall of famer making 8 mil. a year, who missed half the year and is going to lose more games than win.
By TheCutMan
August 15, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
This has become a ‘season of their discontent’ for the Braves not to overstate the obvious. Because of that, it might be wise for them and us to step back, take a deep breath, and not make any knee-jerk moves until the regular season plays out to conclusion.
Give the 2008 season some air. Let it alone for a couple of weeks, then evaluate what happened, why it might have happened, and what changes could make the team better in 2009.
THEN would be the proper time to formulate strategy and tactics for getting a more effective team on the field next year. Decisions of this ilk made NOW would most likely be ones in the mistake column.
Why? Emotions and personal feelings are volatile factors in assessing the decision making whether it’s the business of running a pro sports team or one’s personal life.
By Efrim
August 15, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
I agree. They really must of not gotten along. I didn’t get to listen to them as much the last few years because of work, but they were always entertaining, especially in October. I liked Russo more than Francesa, based on the fact that he wasn’t as arrogant. I don’t subscribe to Sirius satellite radio, but with Russo going there, I may try and listen in just to see what his show might be like. Apparently he is getting 5 years and 15 million from them…..to talk about sports. Sheesh.
By DAP
August 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
hey, pj…you know what? nevermind. im practicing gentleness.
By Pete
August 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Glavine is a microcosm of the Braves franchise. Time has passed them by. Yesterday’s news. Pathetic.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse, thanks for catching the typo, should’ve been OUT not ON. Don’t count out, not don’t count on. Fixing now.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Yeah, it’s the end of an era regarding Mike and the Maddog. Both of them drove me crazy mostly but you have to give them their due as the originators of sports talk radio in that type of format.
Sounds like Dog is chasing the big dough over on sirius. Can’t blame the guy - they’re talking about $2.5 to $3 mil per for 10 years. He’ll become irrelavent like Howard Stern did but Stern had $100 mil reasons to go too.
By opie taylor
August 15, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Does it bother anyone else but me that Boyer didn’t take up for his teammate? The way Lilly taunted Escobar - at least the rookie the day before had some stones and sent a message to Soriano. Come on Boyer, you’re 10 games out and not going anywhere, don’t be a doormat.
By Maniac is accurate
August 15, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Glavine gave the Braves a lot over the years. He’s a sure Hall of Famer and I’m glad he came back. Just wish he’d been able to go out on top.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
PJ, yeah, that ol’ Chipper was good back in his prime, wasn’t he. Dude can barely keep his batting average above .360 these days. Oh, well, at least he’ll win a batting title, poor old SOB. (geez, where did this PJ get his blogging license, same place as Supes?)
By ccrider
August 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
By ccrider
August 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
IT”S THE PITCHING!! The Braves need to acquire as much starting pitching as possible in the off season. Trade for Justin Duchscherer and Zack Grienke. Sign Derek Lowe and Dempster or Garland. Jair Jurjjens rounds out a rotation that gives a chance to win every night and at a cost of about $33 Million. Bullpen: Gonzalez,Soriano,Moylan,Ohman,Campillo,Biemel and Bennett: Cost $16.5 Lineup: Blanco, Escobar, Chipper, McCann, M. Bradley,Franceour, Kotchman, Prado/Infante(Just because Infante starts at second doesn’t mean he can’t move when needed) Cost $32.5 Bench: Prado, Spilboroughs(In Trade), Anderson, Sammons and Canizaires. Cost $3 Total Payroll $92 Million. If , the season goes poorly trade a Starting Pitcher and Bradley to add quality pieces and get one step closer to the Hanson, Heyward, Freeman era.
By Jeff
August 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
I think that Wren should take the best deal and trade Kotsay immediately, before he gets a chance to play tonight’s game . Thus Kotsay would be leaving the Braves on his personal highest effort, just as Tex did. This would be another step in decimating or nuking the Braves, so that the team may be able to fill Kotsay’s slot with another unproven minor leaguer. When it was clear that Wren had no intention to try to sign Tex and was resigned to letting him slip away, the writing was on the wall that the Braves will fall back into their pre-1991 mode and remain there until we get a Ted Turner type to assume ownership.It is the end of an era with the forced retirement of Smoltzy, Glavine,and probably Hampton . Throw in Hudson who probably will be of no use to the team before his contract runs out next year. Unfortunately, due to poor front office management, Brave fans will have to resign themselves in future years to battling the Nationals to stay out of the cellar in the NL east.
By Efrim
August 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
THB
Yes, I am glad I’m not Frank Wren either. Really tough decisions to make this offseason. Bradley is also injury prone, but he makes more sense than Juan Rivera. I really hope the Braves stay away from him and Ibanez. I know Ibanez is on a second half roll, but the guy is just as bad a fielder as Burrell and Dunn with far less power. Of course he’ll be cheaper, but at 37, do we really want to invest more than a year? He’ll get more than that from some team. I just hope it isn’t the Braves.
By Charles
August 15, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Let’s face it: Bringing Glavine back was a bad, bad mistake as was thinking that Smoltz was going to give us much especially at his age (like Glavine’s too).
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Wednesday night when setting my clock radio alarm, I hit the power button and the Braves/Cubs game was on. My wife commented that she didn’t realize that the baseball season was still going. Not a Cox Fan
What’d she think, the All-Star Game was the World Series? That we had a two-month gap between professional sports?
By DAP
August 15, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
THB I don’t like the idea of getting Cameron. He was a solid player for a long time and continues to put up some power but I think there are better options.
but heres the good thing about getting cameron. if we get either cameron and ibanez, or cameron and bradley, we could have an out field of bradley/ibanez, cameron, francouer and blanco. blacno would be the 4th outfielder.
there is alot of potential power in that out field. there is also pretty good defense, and there is also only 2 or three year commitments on guys like cameron, ibanez and bradley. this is good, because we might have some good young outfielders on the way.
if we have $45 mil this offseason, i would mind spending $18 mil per year on bradley/ibanez and cameron. that leaves $27mil to fill other needs.
i think with those 4 outfielders, we have plenty of guys to mix and match and always have a good outfield.
By DHD
August 15, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Out with the old and in with the new.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday, Braves weren’t counting on Hampton entering this season, they were hoping to have him healthy but weren’t counting on him after last year.
And they weren’t counting on having Gonzalez until June, which is when they got him back, as scheduled.
By Blaine Boyer can't be used as a doormat
August 15, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Come on Boyer, you’re 10 games out and not going anywhere, don’t be a doormat.
Blaine Boyer should never be considered for use as a doormat. He is way too gooey and sticky.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Matt DeSalvo is up. Don’t know the other half of the move yet. Going downstairs now.
By Jamie in Richmond
August 15, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
To answer O’Brien’s hypothetical question about “why would you want to see them lose 12-2 instead of 12-7?” Easy answer: Because it’s more important to let the guys of the future play now than it is to lose by 5 runs instead of 10. I’d rather see the team lose every game the rest of the way and let the kids play than plug in the vets and have them play out the string. Esp if they’re guys who dont figure into next years plans, and I dont see why Kotsay would…as much as I like the guy and his average is good.
By Braveheart
August 15, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
How could someone’s wife not know the baseball season is still going on? That either means you are not watching games or you are watching games but your marriage is so terrible that your wife has no clue what you are up to.
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Shaun
It is a combination of everything.
Overuse.
Bad rehabilitation.
Over use of weights instead of stretching.
You could apply the out of shape more to guys like AJ (I recall him because he is a product of the Braves and nobody else).
Overusing Kotsay.
Overusing Moylan.
I dont know what was the root to the soriano ailment but his rehab has been not good. One of the worst moves by the Braves since 1990.
You have to ask yourself, is Chipper out of shape? We all love Chipper. there is not a single Braves fan that doesnt like him 100%. But come on feet, hands, wrist, abs, groins, hamstrings??? Whats next??? Can you say Julio Franco???
Ill repeat it to you since it looks like you didnt get the point. Baseball is a sport. If you play contact sports (baseball), you might end up with an injury. But if you dont admit that there is something wrong with the way our Braves are conditioning themselves, you have not been paying attention. And if you combine that to the fact that Bobby Cox is not using his pitchers the proper way (overusing 2 or 3 of them), all you get is injuries.
BTW, I forgot to add Acosta to that list.
By same ol' same ol'
August 15, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
i wouldn’t bring kotsay back for next year.
I’m afraid next year will look the same as this year.
By T'ville Dawg
August 15, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
I too thought it was a good idea until I found out that it cost the team their first round pick in this past draft, if I had known of the loss of the pick It would have made a lot of difference. I was not aware he was still the unsigned property of the Nyets, speaking of draft picks why didn’t the Braves get something for pathetic Jones. I don’t mean to keep beating this to death, but how good does the heirarchy looks now for not resigning the over the hill 18 mill Jones. Speaking of genius how about Renteria for Infante and Jurgens trade.
By proeye
August 15, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
You gotta figure that this team is seriously lacking some talent right now. They have 1/2 an outfielder so they need to trade or sign at least 2 of them. And they probably need 3 starters after dumping Glavine and the $15 million dollar albatross. Two front line starters would be great plus one 4th or 5th starter.
To those who think that fielding is where it is at. Anyone can catch 95% of most balls hit their way. Therefore, fielding is not one of the great game changers most of the time. Therefore, hitting is where it is at. Therefore, we could use Adam Dunn or Pat Burrell. It’s better than nothing in left, right, and 1/2 in center.
Pitching, well certainly that’s important. That’s why we need to big time starters.
I think the bullpen will be okay.
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Milton Bradley is not worth the trouble.
I think he’s past his attitude issues, but the guy is DHing a lot (a DH in 71 games out of 96 played this year; less than 20 starts in the outfield).
Because he is DHing, Bradley will play 100 games this year for just the third time (he did it in 2003, 101 games, and 2004, 141 games) in nine seasons. That is not good, and certainly not good when you consider that Chipper is likely to miss 30-35 games again next year and McCann will, by necessity, miss at least 25 games or so. The Braves do not need a part-time solution, which is what Bradley would be if he doesn’t find some miraculous elixir that allows him to remain on the field for 145-150 games.
Oh, and Bradley has a 420-point home vs. road OPS split this year in Texas (1.282 at home, .860 on the road). He’s never had a split like that in his career (15 HR at Rangers Ballpark this year, 5 on the road), so my guess is that The Gamer will do everything he possibly can to remain in Texas next season.
(Yes. I’ve made posts like this about Milton Bradley before here. I’m just surprised to see people bring his name up after my tireless efforts to shine some light on the man’s career. It hurts me to my soul. It really does. I must now wipe a tear from my eye.)
By GT
August 15, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I must have been in the minority of fans on this blog who thought it was a mistake bringing back Glavine this year - and voiced it as such at the time. The argument for resigning/keeping him has always been that “if healthy, he can win 10 games and keep you in some others”. I didn’t believe that to be the case at the end of last season, and it is certainly not the case now.
Another 10 game winner in the rotation isn’t going to push this team out of 3rd/4th place next year. Nor will Glavine’s low innings/game lend Cox a handicap in conserving the bullpen. And now this year’s stint on the DL raises the question of whehter he could pitch another full season.
If Wren makes any effort to resign Glavine over the winter - regardless of whatever other transactions are pursued for the rotation - this is a sure sign that our front office hasn’t learned from its mistakes and is still trying to get by on the cheap and with subpar talent. You might be able to sneak into the postseason without one or the other, but not without both.
I’m understandably skeptical until there is more concrete evidence the Braves front office changes its approach of the last 5 or more years.
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Hey…
I see that the Yankees sent Melky Cabrera down to Triple-A and released Richie Sexson.
Looks like the Yanks are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. They might still make the postseason, but it’s going to be really tough.
By Kendawg
August 15, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Glavine is toast. It’d be better if he, Smoltz, and Maddux all retired at the end of this year. Eight million for what? Three wins in a whole season. If this is an example of Frank Wren’s acumen, the Braves are in for some more rough years.
By Supes
August 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
BL
Actually, my post entries are not long, when you compare them to some of the other regulars. I simply try and reply to what seems to be the topic of conversation with more than 1 person per posts.
Now let’s get on with your comments.
The Braves will have close to 50 mil available to spend from the team’s payroll which is somewhere between 90-100 million if I’m correct. So addressing the outfield needs with a FA like Dunn, or Raul Ibanez is not going to be a problem if they want to play here in ATL.
As far as Hermida and Willingham, I was saying they are better options than Jeff b/c of several factors. Jeff seems to be a very, very streaky hitter. He is stubborn, refuses to make adjustments and listen to his coaches. He is a hometown boy. There are unrealistic expectations placed upon him (rather unfair but he chose to do those commercials and be the face of the Franchise). He is never going to realize them as a Brave. Therefore it would be best if he were moved to another team, where he can straighten out and be a decent major league outfielder (I don’t project him to be an All Star anytime soon). Meanwhile, the Braves will free up a spot and can bring on someone like a Jeremy Hermida or Willingham who won’t have the burden of expectations. They are nice complimentary pieces to someone like a Dunn or Ibanez.
I didn’t go to Wheeler HS, I live in Forsyth Co. I went to a HS in this area so I have nothing personal against Jeff. I wish him the best and I hope he can turn his career around (I just don’t see it happening here in ATL)
I also have been blogging about starting pitching for months now. So don’t come in and tell me that I think acquiring OF will “solve all of our problems, or that’s where all the money has to be spent”.
Infact I’ve said for a while now (you obviously have selective blog commenting syndrom) that the number 1 need is a true, power pitcher who can anchor this Braves rotation for a while. Like a Jake Peavy (trade) or a Ben Sheets (FA)
By Anders
August 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Flange 1
On Glavine, the guy is hurt and has been for awhile. ALL of your crap does not apply because of the injury. Is he done? Probably. Would he be done if he was not injured? WHO KNOWS?
Was he hurt last September? How about earlier this year? I didn’t take DOB’s blog to say his elbow’s gone and he’s done. It reads that without getting the calls he used to get, his stuff isn’t good enough anymore. Which BTW I did know from first hand experience.
On Soriano, dude, if you read any of the postings out of Seattle, one of the reasons they traded him was that they were worried his elbow would explode. The Braves doctors looked at him before the contract.
So apparently everyone was aware and afraid of what actually appears to be happening to his elbow except the team that signed him and now has to pay him. I stand corrected, I thought Soriano pulled a fast one when apparently it was just ignorance by Braves management. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
BTW- Did the Braves use Dr. Mo, Dr. Larry and Dr. Curly on this, because the guy had a sore elbow before the first ST game was played and has pitched all of 14 innings in 2008?
By Carroll Rogers
August 15, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Glavine is going back on the disabled list - elbow strain. DOB just called from the clubhouse. He’ll be filing more information shortly.
By Jeff321
August 15, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Glavine is soiling his own legacy.
And to whoever brought up signing Brad Penny.. You do realize he’s also a shell of his former self and on the DL again, right?
The main problem with this team is the bullpen and the decider!
By Sautee
August 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
David
Thanks for using the Brodsky lyrics. I’m partial to that track since it’s me playing bass and singing harmony.
Good call. Keep up your excellent work.
By Rotorob in KY
August 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Long time reader 1st time blogger.
I’m not too impressed with the big name free agent outfielders this winter, too much money for too little performance. If Juan Rivera is healthy there is an option. But a name I haven’t seen (forgive me if he’s been mentioned) that may be available via trade is Scott Hairston. He’s only 28 and doesn’t seem to be in the Padres plans. He’s got a proven minor league track record of power and OBP, plays multile OF positions and is only 28 (29 in ‘09). Then concentrate on starting pitching with any other free agents or trades.
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
DOB
They were not counting on Hampton to be in their top 3 but sure they were counting on him.
Theyll do the same with Hudson……Theyll act as if he is going to pitch late next year. And I really doubt that.
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Anybody read Peter Gammons today? Oh brother! He wants Grove to be the MVP!
There are a few int’resting comments—I just skimmed through, ya know, looking for the word “McCann” or “Braves”. There are some smart people that know McCann is having a better year…
And, Grove plays in a hitter’s park, right? (Do they consider Wrigley a hitter’s park? How ‘bout Turner Field?)
Gammons at least acknowledged that McCann is under-appreciated. Kinda hard to deny that fact. Also, Grove is a year older than McCann.
But it was an int’resting article—I mean, the part talking about what it takes to be a good catcher.
Oh, and in his list of other MVP candidates, he did not mentioned a guy named Chipper Jones…pathetic! How cann you talk MVP without mentioning Chipper Jones? Oh…because our team basically stinks?
Well…THAT’S NOT THEIR FAULT!
Good grief, Glavine…
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
So long, Tom Glavine.
You’ve been an all-time great Braves pitcher. I hope you enjoy your family and Cooperstown.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Turn out the lights - TG’s career is over.
By JRJ
August 15, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
I enjoy your blogs, but about Glavine, can’t it be that a guy who hasn’t pitched in two and a half months met the best team in the NL last night? Simply because he went out and got knocked around by the Cubbies big bats, does that mean that the rest of our pitching staff who pitched against the Cubs should ALSO retire? I mean, they’ve been knocked around too. How about if we give Glav a couple other starts before we pronounce his career dead?
I don’t mean any disrespect to you, because I love your columns. I just think you’ve jumped the gun on this too soon!
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Glavine is done……..I wouldnt be surprise if smoltz wouldnt throw a pitch next season either.
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Obviously by “not their fault”, I was referring to Chipper and 3BMac (though McCann’s struggles with RISP early on didn’t help matters much).
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Are there any more bad news for this season?
Maybe a plane crash over Turner field at game time.
:-(
By THB
August 15, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
You know what I’ve found when talking about probable trade candidates? There is a high risk in every player you sign. I’ve yet to find the perfect player. I guess in Glavine’s prime he was just about perfect. No injury record. Just an outspoken man.
I’m going to guess that the Braves will sign a few Juan Riveras and Jon Garlands until I see otherwise.
By DAP
August 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
doc holliday But come on feet, hands, wrist, abs, groins, hamstrings??? Whats next??? Can you say Julio Franco???
julio franco was never injured, dude. also, many injuries to chipper are due to freak accidents. is chipper fit? id say yeah, but hes also 35.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
just filed this. gotta get back downstairs to try to talk to him now.
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
Tom Glavine’s comeback bid took an abrupt turn when the 42-year-old left-hander went back on the disabled list Friday with recurring soreness in his problematic pitching elbow.
The move came less than 24 hours after Glavine came off the DL to start Thursday night against the Cubs. He lasted only four innings and was charged with four runs, seven hits and four walks.
Glavine wasn’t immediately available for comment after the announcement Friday. Manager Bobby Cox said Glavine was sore “a little bit” after Thursday’s game, and that the decision to DL him was made Friday.
The Braves purchased the contract of right-hander Matt DeSalvo from Richmond to provide depth for a fatigued bullpen. DeSalvo will not start for Atlanta, Cox said. DeSalvo was 2-11 with a 4.60 ERA in 32 games (sevens starts) for Richmond.
It’s unclear whether Glavine will be able to continue pitching this season, or whether he might require surgery. He was diagnosed with a partially torn flexor tendon near the elbow and spent two months on the DL before coming back Thursday after two minor-league rehab starts.
He said before Thursday’s start that the final six weeks of the season would be like an audition for Braves officials and for himself, to determine whether he was healthy enough and had the desire to keep pitching beyond the 2008 season.
Glavine is 2-4 with a 5.54 ERA in 13 starts this season between three stints on the DL. The 305-game winner and former two-time Cy Young Award winner had never been on the DL during his entire major league career before this season.
The longtime former Braves ace spent the past five seasons with the New York Mets before returning to Atlanta on a one-year, $8 million free-agent contract.
In 62 starts from the beginning of the 2006 season until Sept. 8, 2007, Glavine went 28-13 with a 3.88 ERA and .268 opponents’ average in 380-1/3 innings, averaging more than six innings per start. His team was 42-20 in those games.
But in 17 starts since then, the lefty is 2-6 with a 6.42 ERA and .312 opponents’ average in 81-1/3 innings, averaging just over 4-2/3 innings per start. His teams are 3-14 in that stretch.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
JRJ
Nice timing on your 4:42 post.
You didn’t happen to buy Hummer earlier this year as well, did you?
By McPuff
August 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
There are some smart people that know McCann is having a better year…
Baseball is not JUST about hitting.
By JC FROM UT
August 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Has there been any word if any Brave players have been place on and made it through waivers?
By Run Heap Run
August 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
I don’t wish for a plane crash over the ted but a cow crash would be nice. In an empty stadium, of course.
The turning points of this season:
That hideous cow.
KJ dropping the 3rd out in the 9th vs Phillies.
It’s been all downhill ever since both those things that occurred around the same time.
By Supes
August 15, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
Frak, that news about Glavine is sad but it’s not unexpected. Something is obvioulsy not right with that elbow. He’s done all he could without having it operated on.
Quite possibly his career is over. It’s been one hell of a career (esp. all the years with the Braves)
By DAP
August 15, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
doc i disagree with your thoughts on conditioning. if you subtract the injuries of guys who are pretty old, and subtract freak injuries that have happen this year there havent been many more than any other team, id bet.
chop chop sorry to hurt your soul. i wont mention him again. what if we sign cameron and ibanez for our outfield? we’d have francouer, cameron, blanco, ibanez to plug into 3 spots. that could be good, and fairly inexpensive.
By Wes
August 15, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, if he does decide to retire, tell him to let us know BEFORE the season ends, so he can get the final standing O he deserves after 5 years of getting booed here with the Mets.
By Goodoleboy58
August 15, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Aug 15 FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal reports Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1B Mark Teixeira said recently he wants a 10-year deal with an average salary of at least $20 million.
By Interested Observer
August 15, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
2-11, 4.60 ERA???
That’s the best we have left down there? Yikes!
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Baseball is not JUST about hitting.
Uh, yeah, duh.
By Goodoleboy58
August 15, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Tonight is the deadline for Draft Picks to sign… Any notables left unsigned for us? Thanks
By flange1
August 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Dude, again you are not hearing what I am saying.
On Soriano, Seattle traded him because they thought his elbow would blow up. The Braves did their research too. I believe they signed him to a DISCOUNTED deal because of the POSSIBILITY that he might have elbow issues in the future, therefor the discount from the pie in the sky contract that you thought he deserved for his performance last year.
Is that clearer?
On Glavine, DOB says in his article that Glavine has not looked good before the injury or after the rehab.
DOB has not told us how long Glavine was hurting this year, but he did look decent early and then not so much.
I think Glavine is injured and has been most of the year. He is trying to come back without surgery and probably can’t.
My point here is that Glavine has NEVER been on the DL until this year, I don’t think his arm was hurt last year, I think he ran out of gas. I think his arm has been hurt most all year and THAT is why he is not pitching to the expected level.
I am not a Doctor, but I don’t think Glavine should have tried to come back this year WITHOUT surgery.
I know that you don’t agree with me, but is this point clearer?
By Scott from Fairburn
August 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
I see Frenchy’s management company is at work on his image with the recent AJC headlines of:
Braves’ Francoeur visits elementary school Braves’ Jeff Francoeur: ‘I just flat out stink’
By BravesFan79
August 15, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
GO BRAVES! Lets Loose everygame the rest of the year and try and get that Starting pitcher that pitched for USA baseball the other night and had all those strikeouts!
i believe we can still be good again next year…get another TOP starter (not try and pass off a #3 guy as a #1), get a power bat. Have Smoltz some back after the all star break so hes FRESH for a pennant run….. although probably as closer.
KEEP Ohman, Moylan, and Gonzo!
I dont expect us to be very good in 2010 as Smoltz will be gone by then and Chipper will start to diminish. BUT i DO think we have a shot in 2009!!
Go Braves in 2009!!
By JC FROM UT
August 15, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
If DeSalvo is brought up from Richmond isn’t there going to have to be a move on the 40 man roster?
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
DAP,
I appreciate your concern for my soul.
Mike Cameron might have made more sense this year than next. He’ll be 36 in 2009. I don’t see how the Braves could add him and Raul Ibanez and feel good about their ages.
If I had to choose between the two, I’d like to see Raul Ibanez as a Brave. I don’t think overpaying Ibanez is the way to go (Wren might have to in order to make up for the likelihood of another missed postseason), but he’s a nice player who would fit in very well in Atlanta.
(Of course, with the luck the Braves have had the past couple of seasons, the Cow might fall on Raul’s head in left field and give him the Nick Esasky vertigo. I’m just sayin’…)
By Anders
August 15, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
The Yanks sent Cabrera down to the minors today. He’s a 4th outfielder at best imo.
The Braves should offer them Kotsay for Ian Kennedy and something who the Yanks have soured on. The Yanks would make that trade tonight.He’s supposed to be a pretty good prospect. I’m sure Efrim could assess this better than me.
Just trying to help.
By McPuff
August 15, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Uh, yeah, duh.
Oh, is that a quote from your articulate superhero.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Flange 1
Crystal.
By Serge
August 15, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Keep Kotsay unless you get something good?
What silly logic. Kotsay wont be back here next year anyways and you need to open up a spot now for Brandon Jones to figure out if hes going to be an asset for the OF for the FUTURE or not. Its the FOR NOW thinking thats put us in this mess. Glavine, Kotsay. Awfull aquisitions then and now.
By Doc Holliday
August 15, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
DAP
I know that Franco was never injured, thats why I mentioned him.
I also know Chipper is 35, but all this injury thing started years ago.
By craig
August 15, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
glavine’s won loss record and ERA are excatly the same as in the year he came up in 1987 2-4 5.54
By bravos2249
August 15, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
I’m not bagging on Glavine. It’s sad what happened. But, didn’t he experience numbness in his arm last year? I don’t remember where, but I’m sure he did. Could be nothing to do with the elbow, or an injury that put stress on it.
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Ahhh…
It’s nice to see Matt “When I Take The Mound Against Big Leaguers, Be Prepared For” DeSalvo up with the big club.
By steve
August 15, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
I know this is not about the article but here goes. Chipper is supposed to be a leader of the team but begs off the second game of a double-header right after a terrible loss. He claims stomach trouble yet is shown in the dugout eating sunflower seeds. Then on Thursday night when Escobar is hit by a pitch and the benches clear they show a shot of Chipper standing in the back by himself. Show some spirit and life if you ARE a leader.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
McPuff
Easy big guy. McFann is just a kid.
By SouthWest
August 15, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Glav needs to retire NOW and give back the money this season. What a scam.
By stamper
August 15, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
we’re just terrible. our starting rotation has no depth, our bullpen is overworked. our offense is inconsistent. our bench is dreadful. this has just simply become embarrassing… and the fact that our stadium has been nicknamed Wrigley South is just disgraceful.
We have so many negative issues it seems like there’s nothing positive to feel good about. Fortunately, there have been some ups this year… (Chipper’s amazing year, Jurrjens and Campillo’s great rookie years, and McCanns official breakthrough as a Superstar… oh and how can I forget about Smoltz’s 3000 k’s? and now our first cycle in 21 years!!!)
Speaking of Kotsay’s cycle… i remember watching Albert Hall hit for his cycle back in 87 - i had no idea at 8 years old, that it wouldn’t be until i would be 29 before I’d see another Brave achieve that feat. Thank you Kotsay!!!
having said that… can we take a mulligan and start the year all over. please?
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you feel like the Sword of Damocles today coming down on Glavine’s head today?
Blog title: “Is this the end for Glavine?”
A few hours later, Glavine is placed on the DL again for the same elbow injury that had him on the shelf for two months.
That was quite prescient, dude.
By Savannah Guy
August 15, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Coupl’a comments from the nosebleed section:
If HGH had been allowed by MLB to continue a few more years or become legalized, Braves would be in pretty good shape for the playoffs this year. They didn’t, it isn’t and we aren’t. Timing is everything.
If the Cubs fans continue to take over the Ted, Soriano keeps showing out and Lilly keeps getting away with his purposeful plunks without any reprisal, the Braves will be relegated to wimp status by the baseball media, each of our competitors and their fans.
“Boys getting beat by men”, “B-slapped” and other such ugly designations will surely be forthcoming… and that’s just talking about the kind of stuff you’ll see on this blog. Can you just imagine what the Cubs, Mutts and Phils blogs might say? Ah… who cares.
Given all the givens this year, Braves can lose and still hold their heads high, but they can’t take being plunked and dissed and booed at the Ted while continuing to sit, take it or suffer in silence. If Braves players do allow it, they’ll deserve all the ridicule they will surely get.
Bring Bueno back up. Maybe he’ll rub off on some guys. Let Morton fire away. We need a Prince of Plunk. Where’s Klesko? He’d clear a path at full speed to back’em up.
By Anders
August 15, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Bravos 2249
I’m not bagging on Glavine. It’s sad what happened. But, didn’t he experience numbness in his arm last year? I don’t remember where, but I’m sure he did. Could be nothing to do with the elbow, or an injury that put stress on it.
Yes he did, but Dr. Mo, Dr. Larry and Dr, Curly looked him over the same day they had Soriano in the office. You know, to save the Braves a co-pay.
By McPuff
August 15, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Most popular McCanns (in order)
McCann Worldgroup Inc. (Marketing communication company).
Madeleine McCann (missing girl).
McCann Industries Inc. (Construction products).
Colum McCann (novelist).
McCann’s Irish Oatmeal (yummm!)
McCann Technical School (postsecodary school in Massachusettes).
Richard McCann (writer).
Professor Hugh McCann (Texas A&M, philoophy department).
Pete McCann (guitarist).
Lila McCann (country singer)
Brian McCann (catcher, Atlanta Braves)
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
August 15, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
I really have no opinion on whether or not the Braves should keep or trade Kotsay. If Atlanta gets an offer that makes sense, then trade him. If not, he has been playing well in CF and keeping Kotsay is fine with me.
As for Josh Anderson, the young slap hitting speedster has earned the right to play in Atlanta. Anderson is in the midst of a 21 game hitting streak while actually reaching base safely in 30 of 33 contests. He has hit .467 in last ten games with multiple hit performances in nine of them and .416 during the 21 game run.
His 3 HR’s and 8 RBI in the last ten games is real evidence of just how smoking hot he really is because Anderson has no power whatsoever. He’s a contact hitter who slaps the ball all over and runs defenses silly with his blazing speed on the base paths. He does have a real strong arm and great range in the outfield.
His 38 stolen bases out of 43 attempts this year is just incredible. So, sad to say, he could run circles around Jeff Francoeur in RF right now.
The knock on Anderson has been that he doesn’t seem to draw enough walks, which is critical for a lead off hitter. On the flip side, he doesn’t strike out much either. But still, his current hot streak is just unreal. Most projections have him pegged as a fourth outfielder. So , he could be the next Otis Nixon or just another Willy Harris. We won’t know unless he is given the chance to play in the big leagues.
By Bobby's Cox
August 15, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
I’d prefer trades over signings this offseason.
The free agent class isn’t that impressive to me, except for a few pitchers out there.
Has anyone else thought of the possibility of the braves saving cash this offseason for next offseason when the free agent class may be more worthwhile?
By Lew
August 15, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
Doc-From the last blog. Dude, I don’t want to count on any 40 something used to be great players any more either. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. However, I figured this out without saying any of them sucked and by looking for the reasons they didn’t perform as expected-not all injuries are created equally, despite your thinking them as excuses..
I’ve been quite vocal in not wanting Hampton, Glavine, Maddux, Furcal or any other ex Brave like them (and that includes Sheffield) on the 09 team. As for Chuck-if he can’t pitch any better than he’s shown, then I don’t want him back either, but I don’t know of anyone advocating him in the starting rotation next year. If he can learn a new pitch and how to pitch down instead of up and can blow everyone out next spring, then maybe you let him compete for the 5th slot-and keep him on a very short leash-otherwise, whatever. Guess he can always go back to replacing windows.
I’m not quite as down as you on Chipper (I think a suitable backup would help THAT situation immensely) and would rather have him for 130 games than not have him at all, or on Kotsay, who despite the one DL trip, has performed quite well, both offesnsively AND defensively. He’s certainly NOT playing like his back hurts.
Supes-I never proclaimed Francoeur cured as you put it. I said that it (his three hit, three RBI performance last night), along with his admission that he stunk this season, was a good basis for a comeback to form, as did many others, including UGABrave, who has been one of Frenchy’s biggest detractors. Just because you’ve chosen to not like the guy, doesn’t negate the game he had last night. It’s in the record books. Get over it. It should have made you happy.
Sorry you don’t like the Dude, don’t want him in the outfield now or in the future, in the major leagues, or seemingly even want him living in the same state with you. However, that’s your problem. Nothing I or anyone else can say to you will change your mind. I hope he can come back and think he can. I don’t think you would be happy if he does. Says an awful lot more about you than it does Francoeur and his struggles. Like I said-sorry you feel like you do. Not my concern, though, is it?
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
McPuff—
No. It’s not a quote (well, I’m sure somebody else has said it, but I wasn’t quoting them). “Articulate”? Please, no cheap shots.
McCann and Grove have been similar in defense, too, though Grove gets a slight edge. They were really close there until Brian made two errors in the DH. There’s only a .003 difference in their fielding percentages (.995 for Grove, .992 for McCann).
If you wanna talk about handling pitchers, you almost can’t compare the two. Look what Grove has had: Dempster, Lilly, and Zambrano at the top of their rotation! Their records are 13-5, 12-6, and 12-5, respectively.
And look at the Braves’ rotation: The only guy remaining is Jurjjens (OK, Hampton, too, but he’s only just now “coming back”). Jair has been brilliant. His record is 11-7, with a 3.18 ERA. But the rest of their rotation has been made up of inexperienced young guys.
Let’s look at the Stolen Base depot. Now, I haven’t seen any of Grove’s throws, but obviously he’s done a better job at throwing guys out in less chances than McCann.
McCann has made 6 flat out bad throws, and a few times he’s been Saved By The Fielder, so to speak—I mean, they’ve made some very good saves by catching bad throws before they made it to the outfield. Then, there have been times when his throws were right on the money, yet mishandled. It all evens out—sort of.
Most Popular McCanns? Funny, I’ve only ever heard of one of them…Guess which one?
Anders—
Thanks, man. But I bet McPuff is just a kid, too.
By Couch Tater
August 15, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
Off the subject, but a moment of r-e-s-p-e-c-t to Jerry Wexler who brought R&B to the masses. He produced Georgia On My Mind for Ray Charles. The list of other artists is too long to post.
By Bobby's Cox
August 15, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
sounds like Glavine’s done for his career.
I think he wants his career record to stay 100 games over .500.
IMO, Glavine pitched his last game last night, unless he wants one last go at it at the end of the year to mark his retirement and have a going away party.
By chipdip
August 15, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
GENE CLARK!
By TommyP
August 15, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
DOB: I agree with you about not giving Kotsay away for just anything in return.
However, I’d much rather see Anderson patrolling CF right now in Kotsay’s stead.
We know what we’re getting with Kotsay. He’s a guy breaking down year after year (this might be his healthiest in 3 or 4 years). He’ll put up average stats and be “buddy-buddy” with teammates and writers.
We get that. Seriously, we do.
We’re not going to win with Kotsay as our everyday CF. We already have a player with a track record for needing mucho days off.
With Anderson, what do we have? Can we really answer that at this moment? I mean the guy has looked good with each cup of coffee in the majors so far. Plus he has what this team is seriously lacking -speed to burn.
But we keep him down on the farm as well as Brandon Jones (having a very subpar year in the minors but was the future in LF in March, wasn’t he?).
I get the fact that Kotsay is your buddy and the fact that since you HAVE to be there with the Braves every night, you want to see the team play with all their veterans.
But there are tons of fans that would love to see what we have or don’t have with the guys in the minors.
Let’s see what Anderson can do vs. August pitching instead of September pitching. (there IS a difference) Same with Jones.
If we evaluate that Anderson is nothing more than a 4th OF, then at least we have a 4th OF making pennies for several years who also can double as a speedy pinch runner in late innings.
Or maybe the kid will prove to be a speedy leadoff hitter for us.
But we’re going absolutely nowhere with Kotsay….
By jonny2cash
August 15, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Please get rid of Glavine Hampton and Smoltz Francoeur and Cox and lets start over. These guys are a waste of time. We are not going to win anything with the geezers or an arrogant right fielder.
By matt
August 15, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
How is Kotsay putting up average stats ? He’s hitting .300. He’s definitely a big improvement over Andruw.
By flange1
August 15, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Anders,
If the Yankees would give up Kennedy for Kotsay, I think the Braves should jump.
Have you seen the talks about Sheffield to the Mets? What are your thoughts about that?
By It's 6:30 pm do you know where Blaine Boyer is?
August 15, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Blaine Boyer is getting ready to goo play some baseball.
By DOB
August 15, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
DOB,
any chance we’ll get to see 1 of the solid four from AA to get Glavine’s spot in the rotation? (Medlen, Parr, Hanson, Redmond)
Or should we assume that Reyes will get called back up?
By JRJ
August 15, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
Anders
That’s what can happen in the blink of an eye, or in this case the next time you hit Refresh on your browser. :)
I STILL stick by what I said though. At the time I wrote that, no one on this side of the blog knew of Glavine’s latest injury. Had this not occured Glavine still should have been given the benefit of the doubt being his first start in 2 months AND facing the Cubs. This Cubs team WILL be going to the playoffs. I just don’t think DOB should have been making that call so soon for Tommy.
By Yunel Lillibridge
August 15, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
DOB… Any word on YUNEL’s elbow? he said it was “not good” after being plunked last night. I have a feeling Infante might be penciled in at short tonight considering Yunel admitted it was bothering him. He said the same thing about his leg (Ryan Church) and shoulder, which both cost him a minimum of a few days in each instance.
With Glavine DL’ed again, we could always bring Jo Jo or Chuckie back for another audition (snicker). Realistically though, will either Bennett or Carlyle take his spot in the rotation? Not really any other options unless you want to risk stunting Hanson’s development by bringing him up too quickly.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
TommyP, you should plead with someone who makes the decisions, not me.
Personally, I really like Josh Anderson. Great quote, and very talkative.
Just not nearly the player Kotsay is. But for my purposes, he’d be as good or better, in terms of quotes for stories.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
Craig, that’s pretty strange, isn’t it? Glad you brought that to my attention.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
In case anyone’s wondering why no Glav quotes, he’s not here. Another family member was having minor surgery today, and he was excused, told not to worry about coming in. He’ll see the orthopedist here tomorrow.
I’d imagine a trip to see Andrews is just around the corner, for an evaluation. But haven’t heard that yet.
By N Nine®
August 15, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Sweet dreams Glavine! Maybe he can do a first pitch like Javy Lopez, so we can cheer him for his Hall of fame career. You did well and now its time to turn the page.
By Jeff321
August 15, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
According to MLB’s lineup for tonight.. Escobar is not playing.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
The annoying coding is out of the song lyrics now. I hadn’t noticed it until I looked while ago….
Anders, your posts are sad little missives.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Someone asked about Escobar. He was grimacing a bit when taking BP today. Not in lineup.
By N Nine®
August 15, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Original Starting Rotation (spring) 1.Hudson 2.Smoltz.3.Glavine.4.Hampton 5.Chuck james/Jurrjens..amazing how five months into season, things change so drastically. Hope we are prepared for next year.This spring we appered very equipped with rotation.
By LOST BRAVE
August 15, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
DOB.BACK IN MAY YOU GAVE ME THE HONOR OF THE WORST BLOG OF THE YEAR,JUST BECAUSE I STATED I JUST DID NOT BELIVE THAT THE BRAVES STARTING PITCHING WITH SMOLTZ, GLAVINE,HAMPTON,AND YES EVEN HUDSON, COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT HOLD UP. WITH ALL OF THEM IN THEIR LATE 30’S EARLY 40’S. I THINK YOU FOR THE HONOR. BUT I’M SORRY AS ALL GET OUT THAT I WAS PROVEN RIGHT. EVEN IF ANY OR ALL OF THEM WERE ON THE JUICE, OLD AGE AND INJURIES WILL GET TO EVEN THE BEST PLAYERS EVER. AS I SAID BACK IN MAY, THE BRAVES NEED TO BRING UP THE YOUNG PITCHERS OUT OF THEIR MINOR LEAUGES AND TELL THEM IT’S YOUR JOB UNTIL YOU PROVE YOU CANNOT DO IT. REMEMBER WHEN GLAVINE,SMOLTZ CAME ALONG NO ONE HAD HEARD OF THEM EITHER BUT THE BRAVES HANDED THEM THE BALL AND SAID PROVE US WRONG? ALL THOSE YEARS AGO A PITCHER WOULD NOT HAVE SAID HE JUST DID NOT CARE,TRAIN,OR MAKE AN EFFORT THE WHOLE SEASON AS HUDSON DID,HE WOULD’VE BEEN OUT OF HERE.ALL ANY COACH OR MANAGER ASK’S FOR FROM TEE-BALL,TO THE MAJOR’S IS 100% EFFORT. THE BRAVES HAVE LOST THEIR EDGE. AND FEEL LIKE BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BRAVES THEY ARE GOING TO WIN AS I WRITE THIS THEY ARE 11 GAMES UNDER 500. BUT I GUESS I DO NOT REALLY HAVE A CLUE AS YOU TOLD ME BACK IN MAY?BUT AS I’M NOT THE BEAT MAN FOR THE BRAVES AS YOU ARE,I CAN SEE THE WHOLE SITUATION
By ObiWanKobe
August 15, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, How would I best go about setting up a charter plane business that flies only from Atlanta to Dr. Andrews? Seems like it’d be big money.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Bobby said he doesn’t know who’ll take Glavine’s spot, wouldn’t even give us options he’ll choose from.
By proeye
August 15, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
yeah, like the other guy said. Kotsay is not in the Braves long term plans. Period. That’s why we should play the youngsters, whoever they might be. Who is to say that Josh Anderson wouldn’t get better with experience? And how is he going to get MLB experience if he is in AAA??? Wouldn’t it be better to see what he can do NOW during a lost season? Come on DOB, you act like this season is still salvagable. Forget it! I couldn’t care less if we started losing every game from here to the end of the season if we bring up the young guys and see what they can do. it’s not about 2008 - it’s about 2009 and beyond!
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
I’m watching “Bravesvision” (the crappy syndicated broadcast of Peachtree TV). Looks like a big crowd on hand.
If we’re lucky, we’ll hear some guy in the stands screaming “TOMMY GREGG!” like I heard back in the late 1980s. I think there were about 3,000 in the park that day.
(Note: If you’re on your way to the game, feel free to scream “TOMMY GREGG!” in the stands. It’ll be hilarious.)
By TexasBrave
August 15, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
DOB with DeSalvo being sent to the pen could that mean that we might see Buddy take Tommy’s spot in the rotation or will they bring up Chuck or Jo-Jo? I don’t see anyone else at Richmond worthy of bringing up. And bringing up Redmond, Medlen, Parr or Hanson from Miss IMO would not be good for their development, look at Jo-Jo.
IMO Buddy should be given a shot. He has proven reliable in the past.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Someone asked about draft picks: Braves have signed all of their top nine, highest unsigned pick is 10th-rounder, J.J. Hoover, a juco right-hander from Alabama who throws pretty hard (low/mid-90s) with three other pitches to go with his fastball.
Braves could sign him and/or couple others before tonight’s deadline. But so far, they’ve done far better than most teams in terms of signing all their top picks.
By Original Jon
August 15, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
LOST BRAVE THAT IS SO ANNOYING, AND I GUARANTEE IT WON’T GET READ.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
proeye, who said anything about “salvaging” the season? Really, you and a couple other guys keep coming on here with things like, “The season’s over” and “Turn the page” and “The Braves are done,” as if you need to convince some of us.
Fellas, that train left the station when they got thumped in Philly and traded Teixeira a couple days later. We all realize that, or I think 99 percent do. So you’re not exactly giving us any news with the “The season’s over” declarations. As TommyP would say, we get it, seriously, we get it.
By Blaine Boyer is goo enough to start
August 15, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Bobby said he doesn’t know who’ll take Glavine’s spot…
It will be Blaine Boyer. Dude is an odor eater. I mean innings eater.
By Drummerdad
August 15, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
DOB, Do you have any idea what’s involved in surgery to repair the flexor tendon in an elbow? In other words, how long does a procedure put Tom down for? And what’s the prognosis afterwards?
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Anders at 3:00- you’re correct, if unsentimental and good judgment, of course, must prevail over sentiment.
(Wayne in Utah- ‘54 was my first season as a Braves fan- I was born in Milw in 46, the team moved there in ‘53, but I got hooked in 1954 when I moved to Columbus, Ga. In 1955, I was an avid “box score” guy, and remained a fan when the team moved to Atlanta. I continue to love this team, having long since become an adopted son of the south. (Love Atlanta, too, ‘though I don’t live here.)
By bravos2249
August 15, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
DOB
How long is it going to take for Joe, Chip, and Jon to realize VOLQUEZ ISN’T A ROOKIE…I mean common sense says he’s got MORE Wins and a LOWER ERA than JJ. Hmmm who leads rookies in wins and era JAIR JURRJENS!
Anders
hey s….a…. He was a Mutt last year NOT a Brave.
By flange1
August 15, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
bravesfan54,
Are you still in Columbus?
By braves70
August 15, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Tom Glavine’s career has reminded me so much of Warren Spahn. Both great Hall of Fame left handers for the Braves, both left the Braves and joined the Mets, both struggled terribly in their final year. For the all-time Braves team, Spahn & Glavine would both be in the starting rotation.
By keylargo
August 15, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if it’s the backlash from getting a concussion but McCann has gotten in terrible position twice in the last 3 days to recieve throws at home. Once against the Cubs when D.Lee scored and in the first tonight. He’s been up the first base line both times and has had to reach back and try to tag the runner, which didn’t work either time.
By Tomas
August 15, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
I knew Glavine was done. If you think it reasonable, you had to know Glavine had to have a miracle to have a good season. As many of you, I tried to think positively, and hoped his experience would lead the Braves. But the mayor reason I got to think positively was because I wanted to see Glavine back with the Braves, John Smoltz, and Chipper. But in september last year with the mets, I knew he was done, he is 42, and he had lost a lot of velocity in his fastball. Also I thought 8 million was just too much, but the Mets forced it when they offered him 10.
To give Frank Wren a break, there was absolutely no good starting pitchers in the market this past offseason. Curt Schilling(he was done 2 years ago when his fastball dropped from 95 to 84), Carlos Silva( he was asking too much money, and he didn’t deserve it), Kyle Lohse(no one wanted him but he somehow ended up pitching great for the cardinals, but it was a very risky pick to sign him).
This year, there are no excuses. There is money( around 60 million), and there are a lot of quality pitchers including cy young winners AND relatively not old(35 or under). Wren needs to take advantage of this situation, and sign an ace.
I really don’t like the outfielders in the market. Adam Dunn may hit it out, but in my opinion I think he is asking too much. I would give him a 5 year deal worth 75 million, and he wants a 6 year deal worth 120million. No way, I’d rather sign Bob Marley/Manny. If Vladdy’s option isn’t picked up(which I think would be stupid by the angels) he would be the best pick for the outfield. Maybe Juan Rivera can be sign as well, but that would be a backup plan if Frenchy can bounce back. I would rather trade for an outfielder like Matt Holliday, or Jason Bay, someone around the talent of those guy’s. Of course without trading Heyward, Gorkys, Hernandez, Morton, or Julio Tejeran.
By Jeff321
August 15, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Most of the Braves sure love that high fastball.. Maybe one day they’ll wind up hitting one..
By Braveheart
August 15, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
ALL THOSE YEARS AGO A PITCHER WOULD NOT HAVE SAID HE JUST DID NOT CARE,TRAIN,OR MAKE AN EFFORT THE WHOLE SEASON AS HUDSON DID
When the hell did Hudson say that or ever give that impression? From everything I have ever seen out of Hudson, he is a max effort guy who littered the mound with his blood, sweat, tears, tendons and ligaments. He’s lucky if he’s 5’10” and 150 pounds soaking wet but he slung it in anger every time I ever saw him toe the rubber.
By McFann :Ô:
August 15, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
keylargo—
Hmm…Eeeesh…
I’ve noticed that, too…
By uga-brave
August 15, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
chop chop,
i used to play a lot of golf with tommy gregg. super nice guy. he won a batting title in the international league with pittsburgh before he got traded to the braves. he hit .371.
he actually led the national league in pinch hits in 1991.
was in the st louis organization as a AAA hitting coach. now with K.C.
he also is the all time leading receiver for WAKE FOREST.
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Kotsay is 32, with a solid BA, very decent, but not superlative OBP and other numbers. His virtue seems to be an “above average” consistency. Good fielder, successful stealing bases, say, 60% of the time. Good fielder, great team player, much clutch. Steady.
He’s a keeper who will play (empahsis “will play”) because, while not particulary healthy, has a good work ethic, but don’t expect this guy to hit double digit HR’s ever again, or play more than 130 games per year. I think he has a place on team for the next three years, but, with diminishing expectations over time. He won’t embarrass you, provides mature leadership - in other words has valued intangibles. (Didn’t we appreciate this type of player when we kept “what’s his name? - JULIO FRANCO” till he has dam* near 50 years old.
I say give give Kotsay some props for his solid, ‘tho unspectacular’ career. We need some veterans who can play this game, and this guy is a gamer. Can I say it again that he’s a solid player with a good work ethic and very decent skills, and this team needs the type of player for its transition.
By Hotrod
August 15, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
I hope Glavine can come back for one more start so he can retire on a good note. Its been enjoyable seeing him with us this year ,expensive, but enjoyable.
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Kotsay is 32, with a solid BA, very decent, but not superlative OBP and other numbers. His virtue seems to be an “above average” consistency. Good fielder, successful stealing bases, say, 60% of the time. Good fielder, great team player, much clutch. Steady.
He’s a keeper who will play (empahsis “will play”) because, while not particulary healthy, has a good work ethic, but don’t expect this guy to hit double digit HR’s ever again, or play more than 130 games per year. I think he has a place on team for the next three years, but, with diminishing expectations over time. He won’t embarrass you, provides mature leadership - in other words has valued intangibles. (Didn’t we appreciate this type of player when we kept “what’s his name? - JULIO FRANCO” till he has dam* near 50 years old.
I say give give Kotsay some props for his solid, ‘tho unspectacular’ career. We need some veterans who can play this game, and this guy is a gamer. Can I say it again that he’s a solid player with a good work ethic and very decent skills, and this team needs the type of player for its transition.
By proeye
August 15, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Okay, DOB, then let’s move on.
New topic… The young players. Any young players. Let’s play ‘em. ;-)
Kotsay is “okay” and who knows, like you said, he’s decent and he’s starting to hit. Ugh. Now the decision. Do the Braves keep this guy next year? I’m not sure that they have a choice. At least one or 1/2 a player in his case since he’s destined to get injured, is better than none. I certainly don’t give Frenchy any chance in heck that he’ll ever hit again. And LF??? We need Dunn or Burrell as much as either one makes me cringe.
So… I still maintain that we play the younger guys. Let’s see what they can do… AT LEAST GIVE US FANS SOME HOPE!!!! COME ON!!!!
By fastasballs
August 15, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Where have some of you seen where the Braves will have 60 million to spend this offseason? I’ve heard estimates around 40 million.
By Steve from OH
August 15, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad, I came across an article about Jason Schmidt that said he had a similar injury to Glavine and that the expected recovery time was 4 months as opposed to a 12-18 month recovery for reconstructive surgery.
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
I say ban all bloggers who say “we should (trade, release, bench…(fill in blank)…immediately”.
But what do I do I know, I’m just an old man who doesn’t spend all day looking at OBP’s, left-handed phenoms, prospects playing for Orem, Utah, and the like…God, why am I even allowed to live.
By proeye
August 15, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
BY the way DOB… Thanks for responding even though I seem to have gotten under your hide. At least someone appears to be listening to what I have to say. And here I thought I was just throwing out tidbits to a wall. I really didn’t think anyone was actually reading my garbage… ;-)
Really, I just think I’m a good typist so I can throw stuff out in a few seconds and send it off before going back to work… ;-) This was the first time I ever checked to see what anyone said AFTER my post…
Back to the Bravos…
Doesn’t all of this make you Braves fans sick? We have so many needs that it doesn’t seem likely that Wren can fulfill them all. Sure there’s lots of money to spend but that doesn’t mean we’ll get all the best players either. There are 29 other teams and some of them with much deeper pockets. Mr. Wren is basically going to have to pull off a miracle, i.e. five of them actually, for the team to have any chance next year.
And what do you think is going to happen in 2009? My guess is that Chipper comes up with a season ending injury about 5 games into the season and once again, all the great trades we put together go up in smoke! yes, I am pessimistic because it seems that 14 years of pure luck has come home to roost. Who knows if it might take another 4 years to get unstuck from this rut. The Bravos really don’t have that much talent coming up in AA and AAA.
Goes to show you how important the farm system is. Now that I know you guys are listening, well, at least one anyway, I hope you all get my point about having a Minnesota, Florida, or Oakland-like farm system. Don’t wait for players to get old, don’t wait for them to ask for double what they are really worth and lose them to free-agency.
Soo… We have some hope for 2009 but I don’t think we are going to get anywhere. Really the biggest blow is going to be Hudson. Not just because he was the ace but also because we could have gotten a TON for him in the off season if we traded him, which is EXACTLY what we should have done had he not blown out his arm. That right there is going to KILL 2009. We don’t have much to trade!!
Man, we could have gotten a first rate pitching prospect like Jurrjens and maybe even a top-rated outfielder. Think about it: ACES are tough to come by!
Oh and by the way… Thank you Tom Glavine for all you’ve done for Atlanta… If you come back next season, I hope you get surgery and fix that ailing arm of yours…
By ncscoots
August 15, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I know it’s a slow night when you take time to respond to a post such as the one you reference in your 8:01, LOL. Mercy.
I would rather trade for an outfielder like Matt Holliday, or Jason Bay, someone around the talent of those guy’s. Of course without trading Heyward, Gorkys, Hernandez, Morton, or Julio Tejeran.
Why, yes, it would be great. Might even happen in some parallel reverse universe. But on most Planet Earths, some Braves’ ML players and top prospects that are blog favorites are going to be going away. Buh-bye. Just no other way to fill the holes with any reasonable expectation of success; the FA crop is too thin and too pricey to count on that for help.
Besides, I’d much rather see the Braves pay the salary for a Carlos Lee, or better, than sign years away to any of Carroll’s five OF targets. Or Jon Garland.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
I took a lot of grief for my fouray into GM’ing last night. Hey, it was all an excercise of love for my Braves.
BTW, if you disagree with some of my points, fine. At least read what I say, and quote me correctly if you do. Don’t interject your opinion of what you think I was saying.
I still have not heard anyone tell me realistically who we have to trade that would be enticing to another club. I am talking about someone who would cause a team to say, hey we should trade (Halladay, Oswalt, Peavy, Cain, etc) for that guy plus these other pieces.
Tough game tonight, with Cain going for the Giants. I would love to see that guy in a Braves uni for the next 10 years or so.
One other subject, that has been bandied about a bit on the blog. Trading Chipper Jones Many have suggested it. I know what Chipper means to this franchise. If Braves management knew we were going to struggle for a couple or three years to come, would they go to Chipper and offer to send him to an AL team (give him some choices)? Knowing that his chances to go to the WS might be minimal with the Braves??? That is the ONLY way I would ever suggest trading Chipper.
We did trade “The Hammer”, Eddie Mathews, Phil Neikro, and Dale Murphy.
Just thinking out loud…..
By chris
August 15, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Keeping Kotsay is a good idea: he’s cheap, won’t demand a long contract, and can lead the younger players. It seems like no one from the farm will be ready to start in 2009.
By Del
August 15, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
we are being outhit, outsmarted and outplayed by a team full of rookies. For Petes sake get your act together Braves.
By College football lover
August 15, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Was that the starting offense for GT they just showed on Peachtree TV?
Oh, I sorry GT. They just said they were the cheerleaders.
Bad team, worse cheerleaders!!
By cooper
August 15, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
I think Wren gets too much of a pass on the Glavine signing.
$8mm for a guy who is gritty and tries hard makes a nice story but little.
That is a big chunk of change to essentially toss in the hamper.
Keith Law gets ripped a fair bit (sometimes with good reason) but he called the Glavine signing 100%.
It was a nice dream but with no roots in practicality or reality. 42yo and innings eater don’t got together if you look at things objectively.
Wren took a cheap & nostalgic gamble and it failed.
As they watch this rotation fall to pieces (Hudson aside as that was a total surprise) I hope Wren has learned his lesson re: 40 somethings and rehab projects.
Only an act of God would have kept the April 1st rotation from filling the diaper by the AS break and God clearly had better things to do.
By BravesFanInRockies
August 15, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
I’m probably channeling DOB here but since 1991 anyway the Braves never act as if the team is in rebuilding mode for two or three years.
This may be delusional, but that’s the way the front office has acted. They believe they can contend every year.
Also, they traded Aaron, Niekro and Murph when they were at the tail end of their careers. (I don’t recall when Matthews was traded.) If at all healthy, Chipper should have at least a couple of good seasons left.
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
This is making me mad…
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
scoots I do not care for any of Carroll’s 5 OF prospects either. But, I am also not into overpaying for guys like Manny, Carlos Lee, Vernon Wells, Maggs Ordonez, etc. (Lee might be one exception).
Personally, I would prefer going after a stud starter (adding Garland would be as a complimentary piece). As for the OF prospects, I have been told that my choices of keeping Frenchy, and going after Casey Blake are not “powerful” enough.
I would rather suffer for a couple of years and develop our own guys. I do not relish the thought of overpaying for a failing superstar, and then listening to all the wailing and crying on the blog here years afterward.
Mac is having a rough night with the Giants base-thieves.
oldman bravesfan54 So who is this lefty phenom in Orem, UT??? I could go scout him out for you!!!
:-)
By Jeff321
August 15, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
Whew, McCann sure is getting embarrassed out there tonight. By my count that’s three stolen bases in 4 innings.
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
I want to second everything that Lew said at 5:57.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
cooper hindsight is 20/20
By BravesFanInRockies
August 15, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
And when I said Chipper should have a couple of good seasons, I mean All-Star caliber.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
A good call. Roberts never touched the plate.
By JJRickets
August 15, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Joe Simpson just said that Paul Hewitt is doing a great job as Georgia Tech’s basketball coach. How do I get Joe to come evaluate me at my job? It must not take much to win him over.
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
OUT!!!!!
Mac is having a rough night with the Giants base-thieves.
Yeah, Jair’s got that leg-kick, that second throw was no good, and that first guy should have been called out.
By keylargo
August 15, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
I loved the Kotsay signing this spring. We got a solid veteran who played good defense, had a great throwing arm and steady bat. Plus he was a good team player who would blend in immediately.
This spring Cox babied him and his back, even leaving him in Orlando on some bus trips. By the end of the first 50 or so games I had forgotten AJ. But then the back reared its’ ugly head and our CF was up in the air.
I am saying that Kotsay is good for the team but only as a fourth outfielder. We can’t go into the season with his back being able to throw the outfield into chaos again. I would say he could be signed for $3 - $4 million and be the fourth outfielder/pinch hitter we lacked this year.
By ncscoots
August 15, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Wayne, Braves are going to have to “overpay” SOMEbody, I think that’s a given. A currently signed position player would at least cost fewer years, and the Braves can package from the quantity on the farm among middle-tier prospects. Gotta save the top prospects for a pitching deal, if possible.
By Brady
August 15, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
I wonder what Winn is hitting against the Braves in 2008?
By McPutzz
August 15, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
On D: Cann’t throw to second, cann’t stop a dirt pitch, cann’t run, but I cann sit my cann on the plate and tag.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I asked Chipper about Glavine’s three DL stints this year, after having none in 21 previous seasons:
“Getting old is hell, I can attest,” said the oft-injured third baseman. “You could tell last night that it wasn’t there. When you throw your fastball in the low 80s, something’s just not right….
“When you turn 40 in real life, you’re 100 in baseball. He pitched well past 40. He and some other pitchers are freaks of nature.”
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
bravesfaninrockies Agreed on managements approach for the past 17 years. But then again, have we been this bad in 17 years? I wonder if times could be changing.
BTW, I was not advocating trading Chipper. Just wondering if FW would make that offer IF he were indeed in a rebuild mode.
By Bill
August 15, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
The Guy that I wish the Braves would trade for, is Huff. He can be traded to any team. He’s only under contract for one more year. That would give Heyward another year in minors. I think he can handle LF. His defense is not the best. Think he will make about 10mil next year.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
Keylargo, if they brought back Kotsay, that’s what it would be as, I’m sure. Talking to another Braves veteran today about it, and he said he hoped they’d do it, bring him back as a fourth outfielder and perhaps a spot starter at first base (he’s played there a little in the past, could certainly do it, and it’d surely be easier on his back).
By BravesFanInRockies
August 15, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
I don’t see this front office paying $3-4 million a year for someone who is supposed to be a bench player. If Kots commands anything like that, they have him ticketed for a starting spot.
It’s always possible he could be beaten out by a minor leaguer in the spring, but I don’t see the Braves inking him to a contract of that magnitude with the intention of playing him part-time.
By Deep Throat
August 15, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
How is Kotsay putting up average stats ? He’s hitting .300
Batting average is a weak measure. Adam Dunn, hitting in the .220’s last I saw, is way better than many .300 hitters.
Of course, Francoeur this season and Andruw Jones last season are/were awful .220s hitters.
Did someone really get rid of John Smoltz? Not just no, but hell no. If Smoltz wants back in 2009, sign him to a cheap contract. Don’t count on him to be a #1, but he should be good.
By uga-brave
August 15, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
i said 70-92 after the tex trade. we might approach 95 losses.
kotchman is sure not making wren’s life any easier.
By Mfdeacs
August 15, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
The Glavine signing could not have worked out better for Liberty Media.
First, they do not pay the 2/3 million plus signing bonus for the draft pick lost.
Second, they pretend to replace payroll with the signing, paying 8 mil to offset the negative perception of not getting a marguee free agent to replace Andruw.
Third, insurance money pays part of the 8 million for every day Glavine is one the DL.
Four years of season tickets. There will not be a fifth.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH: Correct, if it’s just scar tissue in there that can be cleaned out via ‘scope, Glavine could be ready for spring training.
I just filed my write-through story, should be posted in a little while, but what Glavine has told Braves people is that he’d have a surgery if it were the debridement type of procedure, to clean out scar tissue, like Smoltz had on his elbow after the 2004 season (Smoltz was ready the following spring).
But if it’s Tommy John surgery that’s needed, Glavine would almost certainly retire instead. He could still do everything but pitch without having TJ surgery. Wouldn’t affect him playing golf, throwing BP to his kids, playing hockey with his kids, etc.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
keylargo Agreed on Kotsay. He is a keeper, but needs some rest.
scoots Problem with trading is there has got to be value for value. Any dude off the street when asked if they would trade some Hanson kid for Josh Willingham, they would say sure. Most of us on here would say, no frickin way.
Packaging our middle tier prospects is like asking us to take someone else’s “middle-tier” prospects for KJ or Francoeur, or even Jurrjens.
Not often going to work.
This is the dilemma that causes me to be accepting of a minor rebuilding mode.
Kotsay comes through again. Chipper, let’s git ‘er done!
By keylargo
August 15, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
I would like to see the Braves bring the fences in some - as soon as we get some people who can hit it out. Right now I think it’s good where they are.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
I think before this year I’d have asking what you what you were smoking about trading Chipper… however, we could fill a lot of holes if it’s done right.
One comment on the Kotchman thing… I don’t think anyone could have seen the free-fall in BA he had since coming over. He had a decent average in Anaheim, so when people complain about getting draft picks instead, sounds like 20-20 hindsight to me.
By TennesseePaul
August 15, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
So did Kotsay think Glavine was calling him out, saying the next few games were going to be try outs for next year? This guy is on fire right now. Another triple and a Homer and he’d have back to back Cycles.
And Chipper with the RBI. Or as the ever annoying @sskisser Rex Huddler says in his jock tone, think Napolean Dynamite’s Rex Kwon: “Another steak for Chipper. Steak. You like that? It’s a steak. A Ribeye. An RBI”
By bravesfan54
August 15, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Just in. Kyle Davies was just demoted to AAA with a 5-4, 4.71 ERA. Must be more to this story, but it has to be said that for either KC or Atlanta, those numbers ain’t bad! (Last year another story- but, this is this guy available for a reasonable price - notwithstanding his much expressed disappointment when “release”, “traded”,(thrown away?) experience with Atlanta. (Note: his numbers at the time were BAAAAD, but did we give up on him too soon, says Mr.”bradlaw” in the clear light of “experience”? -…i.e.”hindsight”!
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
This game is way beyond boring…
By keylargo
August 15, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Bravesfaninrockies
I think Kotsay is making $8 million this year and I don’t see him not having an offer in the $3 - $4 million range as a free agent. I know he wants to play here but how much do you leave on the table on your last contract?
Just speculating.
By Random by (Your Ad Here!!!)
August 15, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Speaking of…I see Frenchy’s friends and family are voting for him non-stop on the “who will be the next brave to hit for the cycle” poll.
Myself, I votied Mac and said a prayer that Frenchy won’t be a Brave for that long.
I voted Chipper, and I’m surprised he’s never actually hit for the cycle. I think he’s had plenty of games with a HR, a 2B and a single. It’s that pesky 3B that escapes him.
Run Heap Run, McFann, Supes and all the voters on this poll —
I don’t get it — of the four nominees listed, only one has ever hit for the cycle before, so how come Kotsay comes in last in this poll?!?!? With half the votes of the fellow in third?!?!?
Are all you voters really that dim-witted? Do you think maybe players generally have only one cycle in them, and Kotsay shot his wad last night?
Surely you’re not reducing the poll to a meaningless and boring question of who will remain a Brave the longest?
(“Dim-witted” may be an understatement.) (JK!!!)
Only way Chipper ever hits for the cycle is if he misses home plate on his second homer and the opposing team successfully appeals. He’s too injury-cautious anymore to run full out (except maybe to score).
Only way Francoeur ever hits for the cycle is if he gets HBP hard enough that the ump gives him a mercy triple.
I’d say, after Kotsay, 3BMac is most likely to hit for the cycle — but it’d have to be an extra-inning game to allow him time to catch his breath between the double and triple.
(-8
PS: McFann — how do you pronounce “3BMac”? “Three-bee-mac”? “Triple-mac”? Just wondering.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Hudson was in the clubhouse before game, and said that they removed two big bone spurs and three other bone chips from his elbow when they did the TJ surgery. He was messed up in there, which makes it amazing that he wasn’t feeling serious pain while pitching with all that crap floating around or growing off the bone in there.
He explained that he’s an Auburn guy. Something about War Eagle?
By fastasballs
August 15, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
McFann Pitching duels are an acquired taste.
By ncscoots
August 15, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Missed the key word “quantity”, Wayne, LOL. Lots of GMs would take three middle-tier prospects with a chance of success, in lieu of a single top 10 prospect and in the face of adamancy by the other side. “Middle-tier” to me is a description of prospects other than organizational top 10, playing at age level or above, and having level-average success, at a minimum. Braves have quite a few players in that profile; projected as complementary major leaguers with possible upside. That’s bankable coin.
By uga-brave
August 15, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
just a tweak or two frank, yeah that’s the ticket.
someone in this organization has to be held accountable.
only one brave would crack the cubs everyday lineup, and that is debatable.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Career-high 9 K’s for Jurrjens. Threw 100 pitches.
This is the fifth time in his past 11 starts that the Braves have scored one or no runs while he’s been in the game.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
oldman54
Good point on Davies. Sometimes a guy might come up and do OK early on, then wear out his welcome trying to learn how to pitch.
I think this is one reason you don’t see too many pitchers on their original team, or at least there doesn’t seem to be as many as regular positional players.
Also, take a look at JoJo Reyes’ numbers for this year. Take out 4-5 real bombs, and he has done OK this year. He has some decent stuff. I just hope we have the patience to stay with guys like Morton and Reyes until they get it right.
Campillo might be a different story. I like Campillo, but I keep thinking “sell high” when I think of him. Maybe he will be a keeper. He could be either a back end starter, a long reliever or set up man. Very versatile.
We need to get JJJ off the hook tonight.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Next cycle: Escobar, write it down!! (remember, it doesn’t have to leave the park to be a HR.)
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Someone asked about Winn vs. Braves. Before tonight, he was 8-for-12 against them this season, and 38-for-109 (.349) with three homers in his career.
Add three more hits including another homer to those totals.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Does 3-B-Mac denote Baby Huey’s favorite lunch?
:-)
scoots I wonder what percentage of players that are categorized as middle-tier actually make it to play 5+ years in the bigs.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
9 K’s for JJ tonight!! What a performance. Too bad our stellar lineup wasted it.
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Random PS: McFann — how do you pronounce “3BMac”? “Three-bee-mac”? “Triple-mac”? Just wondering.
“Three-Bee-Mac”. But “Triples McCann” doesn’t sound too bad.
I don’t know who’s voting for Francoeur in that poll. Guess who I voted for…
Fastasballs—
Apparently.
I liked watching Jair…except when Velez, Lewis, or Roberts got on base.
Oh crud…a homer…
By ncscoots
August 15, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
two big bone spurs and three other bone chips from his elbow [and] TJ surgery
Holy Cornelia. The guy shouldn’t have been able to shake hands without something grinding loud, let alone pitch, LOL. Man.
By Brady
August 15, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Winn is competing with Alfonso Soriano as the biggest Brave killer!
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Random—
What I meant was:
Guess who this dim-wit voted for.
; >
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Wow,
Short leash for Ohman tonight!
By cooper
August 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Wayne - true but I along with many fans and analysts barfed on the Glavine signing at the time and voiced major concerns about the rotation and so called pitching depth.
You didn’t need to be Nostradamus or the Great Karnack to see this rotation’s flaws and the pens lack of proven talent. High body count low quality.
If things broke their way re: pitching it would have been a great story - rookies, old guard transition etc….
That happens in movies not in real life.
The reality is if the Braves had a $120mm payroll only JJ and Hudson would get the ball every 5 days and apart from Gonzo/Ohman the pen would be entirely different.
Well we don’t’ and thus we have to settle which is fine but let’s not pass off sheeet for shine -ola (name that film).
You need to spend money somewhere and while the offense is bi polar they need to build a rotation & overall pitching staff without so many questions marks.
Great pitching and solid offense or Great offense and solid pitching. This team has neither.
Either that or plan to give Jobu an oil tanker of rum every season plus put a chicken coop in the bull pen.
:)
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Cain has a 1.81 ERA in his past seven starts.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Can anyone from our bullpen get an out… PLEEASE??
By RG
August 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Glavine has been a tremendous Brave - one of my all-time favs. One thing that concerned me this year as the season began was his newly expanded waistline. I did not ever see that gut, even in his last few years with NYM. One of the keys to not being on the DL was his conditioning. As crazy as it sounds, when the core muscles in your trunk aren’t as strong/conditioned, the stress on an elbow or shoulder will be greater.
I wonder if Glav will pull a Brett Favre and retire, then realize he just misses the competition and comraderie too much. He is a great competitor (1995 WS, Game 6) and will have a hard time when he hangs it up.
By Brady
August 15, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB for the Winn stats.
By BravesFanLostInOH
August 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
ROFLMAO “Guess that ball was hit a little harder than we thought…”
By Jeff321
August 15, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Anyone change their mind about having Bennett in the pen next year? This guy is worthless just like Boyer.
And of course the ball rolling by Blanco wasn’t very impressive either.
By Interested Observer
August 15, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Next Braves cycle…..Jordan Schaffer.
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
Haha…No…
By Steve from OH
August 15, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Very nice work by Jeff Bennett there.
By McFann Ô
August 15, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Well, it’s been “fun” (yeah right), but The Bird won’t shut up, so I gotta turn his light off. Since he’s in the same room as the computer, it goes off, too.
Wayne—
Haven’t used the “Baby Huey” nick in a while! Kinda missed it…
Gotta split. Night, all.
By jerry
August 15, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
There’s no reason for the Giants to handle the Braves like this. They’ve won 50 games…5 fewer than the Braves.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
DOB Wouldn’t it be awesome to see Cain in a Braves jersey next year? The Giants are hurting. What would it take (without giving up McCann).
cooper Good points. Knowing our $$ restrictions, we went the only way we could go, short of a minor rebuilding effort.
A rotation of Smoltz (I guess you could say the odds were in favor of him going down, although I would never bet against JS), Hudson (who woulda thunk), Jurrjens (pleasant surprise), Glavine (his track record did not support what happened this year, contrary to what anybody says), Hampton (was always a long shot), with guys like Reyes, Bennett, James and Carlyle in the wings.
Bullpen: Soriano (wimpy b!tch), Moylan (nobody saw this coming), Ohman, Acosta (who was guessing his downfall), Boyer, Gonzo coming in later on, and guys like Royce Ring, Chris Resop, and Jeff Ridgway as support. This was a pretty strong pen, that actually performed well up until about a month ago, when they got worn down.
So, let’s not kid ourselves. In a weak NL East, we were chosen by many of the pundits to finish on top.
Who would have thought as many injuries would have hit one team. Frenchy’s decline, and the off years of Escobar and KJ would not have been so obvious if guys like Diaz, Infante, Prado and Kotsay had been more sound and healthy.
Just too many things going wrong for one year.
Knowing what we know now, with Hudson being out for next year, Smoltz probably gone for good (but don’t bet good $$ on it), Hampton, Glavine and James being probably finished as Braves.
This is what puts us where we are, with MANY pieces needed to get back to where we thought we were.
By You got to be kidding me
August 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
Until the braves realize its time to clean out the attic and quit fawning over the old scrapbooks and move forward with youth and determination, we will continue to talk about the 14 year run until it is 14 years in the past! We are working on year three right now! And we aint moving up, we are moving downward!
By Burrel or Dunn for Braves' LF Spot in 2009
August 15, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Fitting Jenny Francine (aka Jeff Francoeur) would make the final out.
By Run over 'em Heap Run Over 'em
August 15, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
The only cycle Frenchy will ever hit for is an out cycle.
A strike out, a ground out, a pop out, a fly out, and the ever popular gidp. In fact, I’m sure he’s successfully completed that cycle several times this season. :D
This dim wit voted for Mac because Chipper…no. Frenchy…see above…Kotsay…see Chipper and add the fact that he more than likely won’t be a Brave next season, or if he is..well it’s been 21 years since a Brave did it so…you do the math, genius.
By Run over 'em Heap Run Over 'em
August 15, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
I tried to say this earlier but the blog was broke or something. John Adcox’s 3:02 comment almost brought a tear to my eye. Luckily Ander’s Mom made me laugh so hard with “her” 3:03 comment I dried it up before anyone saw me.
By uga-brave
August 15, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
as i watched glav get shelled last night i had the same thoughts as DOB.
kind of a first in last out kind of thing.
tommy was the first of the great pitchers to arrive and maybe the last to toe the rubber in atlanta.
the braves as we knew them for the better part of two decades are gone.
we now live in the frank wren era. he has been here as js’s aide for a while.
we have missed on a entire cycle of talent. there is no upper level talent in the minors, whose fault is that.
as braveheart said we have no key players in their prime years.
welcome to the wonderful world of also rans like the reds, pirates, rangesrs, and the mariners.
the longer wren is here, the longer it will take to undo the damage.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Jurrjens is staying upbeat through all this, which is definitely a good sign.
By the way, he’s flying to Williamsport in the morning to see his native Curacao play Mexico in the Little League World Series at 11 a.m. He’s gonna speak to the kids on the Curacao team.
“It’s gonna be awesome,” he said.
By Random by (Your NAME Here!!!)
August 15, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Run over ‘em Heap Run Over ‘em: “This dim wit voted for Mac because Chipper…no. Frenchy…see above…Kotsay…see Chipper and add the fact that he more than likely won’t be a Brave next season, or if he is..well it’s been 21 years since a Brave did it so…you do the math, genius.”
“This dim wit …” — you said it, not me.
(Except I did say it first, didn’t I?)
At any rate, in your case, it definitely is an understatement.
“add the fact that he [Kotsay] more than likely won’t be a Brave next season”
So you did reduce it to boring meaninglessnes, huh?
“or if he is..well it’s been 21 years since a Brave did it so…you do the math,”
So now you’re saying “None of the Above”?!?!?
“genius”
You said it, not me.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Run over ‘em Heap: Ain’t that the truth, about both of those posts. Great juxtaposition of the two.
By Anders Momma
August 15, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Anders, honey, come upstairs and rub Momma’s varicose veins.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
From my game story, here’s the acknowledgment from Cox that the bullpen is fried:
“J.J. pitched a great game,” said manager Bobby Cox, whose Braves have lost 14 out of 20 games and have an 8-21 home record since June 6. “We just didn’t hold them tonight. They’re all overworked in the bullpen, simple as that.
“They’re doing everything they can.”
By TommyP
August 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
Let’s see….looking at the Giants lineup tonight:
Fred Lewis: 2nd year, first full year in majors. Ishikawa: rookie Velez: rookie Burriss: rookie Rohlinger: rookie Ochoa: rookie
Someone mentioned the Giants were 5 games back of the Braves.
However, the Giants will know a TON about their minor leaguers while the Braves……will know how many players are at the end of the line.
Anyone know what the Giants farm system was ranked before this season? Just curious.
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Brady, an update on the Winn stats (since he wasn’t done last time we talked):
Winn has a .372 career average in 33 games against the Braves that includes an astounding 12-for-16 in four games this season, including three Giants wins.
He’s gone 4-for-4 in each of the past two against them, and also had three hits in Cain’s Aug. 4 win against Jurrjens. He’s 5-for-6 against Jurrjens.
By Wondering
August 15, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
How is a reached-by-error tantamount to making an out?
Johnson’s 2-3 was changed to a 1-3 and the Giants’ first baseman charged an error on that infield single. Should that not be 1 for 2 then in that case?
Curious rules.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
What would a club have to pay Richie Sexson for the last 6 weeks of the year? Send Gotay packing, and bring in the big righty for a little tryout.
Probably won’t work out, but heck, stranger things have happened. What do we have to lose, except the services of Ruben Gotay. Do you think anybody would miss him? Heck if we need a third or fourth second baseman, we are in more trouble than we know, and Hampton is a better hitter….
Remember the horrid year that Edmonds was having for San Diego before being picked up by the Cubs?
By David O'Brien
August 15, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
One more Winn stat: He’s 26-for-54 (.481) in his past 15 games against the Braves with six doubles, two homers and nine RBIs.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
Where is the next Jair Jurrjens that some other team is willing to deal?
Tampa Bay has some decent young arms. How about Toronto? He’s out there somewhere….
By Run over 'em Heap Run Over 'em
August 15, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
LMAO good night folks.
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Hmm…
Francoeur admits that he sucks.
Bobby admits that the bullpen has been overworked.
I’m not sure what this means, but I’m a-headin’ fer muh bomb shelter.
By Wayne in UT
August 15, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Is it too late to try for Ryan Freel and Rocco Baldelli?
By TommyP
August 15, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
Player A: 2nd year in AAA - .287 average, .404 OBP, .326 slugging, 41 steals (73%).
Player B: 2nd year in AAA - .314 average, .358 OBP, .404 slugging, 38 steals (88%).
Player A is Luis Castillo’s stats from his 2nd and final year in AAA.
Player B is Josh Anderson’s stats from his 2nd year (current) in AAA.
Not saying that Josh Anderson will turn out like Luis Castillo but it sure would be nice if we started to find out.
By Chop Chop
August 15, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
The combined 87 years of Jamie Moyer and Greg Maddux are dueling in San Diego.
No runs for either team going to the bottom of the sixth.
By BossLady
August 15, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to regroup by finding out who is playing for a job next year.
Larussa said that no one’s job is guaranteed this year, definitely not next year, with the Cardinals.
Blanco, Infante and McCann are the only players that expressed an interest in being employed next year.
Why in the h#@!! did they not dump Gotay I will never understand. Maybe, money and contracts since I never paid attention to his deal.
U Know Who is too big for his “britches” and has an arrogant way of playing things I don’t see any extra effort in him nor do I see it in Kelly, Escobar, Francoeur.
I hope that Wren is paying attention.
We all know that 2008 is a done deal but there should still be pride. I don’t discuss Kotsay or Norton. They do not seem like Braves to me it is like they accepted jobs for pay.
I do not hire people that are just looking to earn.
Terry Pendleton should be embarassed that he cannot recognize pitches, pitch patterns and alerting his batters to what he see from opposoing pitchers. I am truly sick of him and cannot understand why our organization keeps him in his position.
Under McDowell all the pitchers are injured and having surgery. I don’t know what that is about so I won’t speculate.
Bobby has got to “man up” and stop his patience and understanding.
I love the Braves and I’m sick to see these type of people in our organzation. It is like I go out and just pick up guys on the street and tell them to “Go get’um TIGER”
By Jake
August 15, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
Who would have thought that Greg Maddux, the oldest of the big three would end up outlasting them all. Well maybe, i’m still holding out hope for Smoltzie. That guy has some of the best determination i’ve ever seen. He’s been counted out before, but if he says that he will be back i for one will take his word for it because I know he will work his hardest at getting back. He’s got a better chance than Tommy I believe. He’s younger and before he got hurt he wasn’t a middle of the rotation guy like Tommy, he was still a top of the rotation guy and a co-ace for us. Smoltz was still pretty dominant. Here’s hoping he can do it.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves need to look east (Japan?) for an answer.
By Bama
August 15, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
Said it months ago and DOB had a smart reply . Soriano was and is damaged goods….
trade Frenchy for milkey, both need a change. At least NYY are smart enough to send MC down to AAA while Cox keeps kissing Jeff’s @@@. Second thought NYY wouldn’t want Jeff.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 15, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
Would be nice to see the Phils swept back2back by LA/SD
By N Nine®
August 15, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
Jurrjens continues to give solid outings and recieve no support. Yet, the guy is positive. What a nice kid. We have still have a positive run differential.amazing.
Sounds like Glavine willing to have a minor surgury.Dr. Andrews is loving the Braves this year! .would we offer another chance? I’m sure its not TJ surgury. Sticky situation ahead possibly.
THE CHIPPER JONES WATCH:
Holliday 1-4 .345
Pujols 3-5 .345
Chipper 1-4 .366
He’s still in the driver’s seat. He’s due for a multi-hit game. I think he leads that stat.
By bruce
August 15, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
David: who is your favorite song-writer? I saw Smokey Robinson last night (thurs) in DC area at Wolftrap… the man has still got it. It was a fabulous concert… most audience involvement/singing along (he encouraged it several times) I’ve experienced in a long time. He told story about Stevie Wonder,(too long to recite here) but Stevie calls him Smoke, so Smokey calls him Steve. Last night the man was Smoke. Apparently has new CD out now of old old music.
Went to Rockies-Nats game tonight, my first non-Braves game this year, it too was sad… if Willie is playing center instead of Millidge, Nats don’t lose their 8th in a row… Harris would have gotten to ball over Lasting’s head for third out. Redding was sharp. Thanks, Bruce
By Jake
August 15, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Like to hear the JJ is staying upbeat. A lot of rookies could be getting down about the lack of scoring and may press a little to be extra perfect. I think a little of that happened to Jojo. Cool to hear he’s going to speak to the kids. Curacao has been very good for the braves, and hopefully it will continue to be.
By gotigers72
August 15, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
I could be wrong, but it looks like the Braves aren’t playing with much spark here lately. Maybe getting behind early like they have been doing for the last 5 games is causing the lackluster look they have.
Before the game, it was noted that the Giants have called up 3 or 4 new guys from the minors and are playing them. Seems like a good idea for the Braves. Although waiting until September may be a better idea, because then they wouldn’ t have to send anyone down or designate anyone for assignment. But when they do bring them up in September, I hope they play them, to get some kind of idea as to whether they will fit in the 2009 plans or not. They won’t be in the race for any kind of playoff spot, so may as well play them.
I agree with DOB and others on this blog that the Braves should keep Kotsay if he wants to stay. Dude can play the game, and will be a good guy to have around to work with young outfielders. Plays hard, and from all I have heard is a good guy to have in the clubhouse.
By Chuck Uga
August 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox needs to retire this season or simply be let go. He has lost any ability to motivate a team.
I agree with trading Frenchy. We need others out the door who aren’t giving enough effort. Unless the right changes are made, Mr. Wren may drive this franchise into the ground. Very possible that he will do that based on what we are hearing.
By Bama
August 15, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
wayne in UT, Rocco is sick and has said he may never play again. Freel on DL.
By SR
August 15, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
My gosh, you just have to state the obvious, this is a bad team in so many ways. They don’t hit when they need to; they don’t pitch well when they need to; they make fundamental mistakes in every facet of the game, look at tonight, errors in the field, on the basepaths, stolen bases galore and so on and so on.
Sure they have suffered injuries galore but what did that have to do with the result tonight? Nothing, that’s what. They had their best starter going, Chipper’s back in the lineup, they used Ohman, one of their only consistent relievers and yet look at the result, they lost (again) to one of the worst teams in baseball, coming off a 4 game sweep by the Astros.
Bad, bad, bad, bad team. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….. my friends, I feel sorry for Frank Wren. One or two pieces is not going to fix this team.
By fastasballs
August 15, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Well it won’t be long until the Sept call-ups & we will get to see some guys who do want to play some baseball.
This team has packed it in with the exception of a few guys there isn’t a lot of effort going on. They are just going through the motions.
It’s not fun to watch, but at least their futility will produce a higher draft pick next season.
I’m not going to get down on Kotchman because you know he’s in culture shock right now. Going from division leaders to the least of the East can’t be easy.
It’s been nearly two decades since we have had to watch such lackluster play during games that mean absolutely nothing. I know the last two years didn’t produce anything, but they were still in the race a lot longer.
Several have mentioned it before, but there iswn’t any relief coming from AA or AAA except for a few prospects & except for Hanson & maybe Redmond I don’t expect a lot. It is strange how they are stacked with talent from Myrtle Beach all the way to the Gulf Coast league, but virtually nothing in the higher levels.
If Wren plays things right in this off season he can build a quality team by 2010. A glut of talent should be ready by then & Frenchy will either solidify himself as the RF or he’ll be replaced by Heyward.
By Wayne in UT
August 16, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
AA and AAA talent that might be ready for 2009 season:
Tommy Hanson, Todd Redmond, Kris Medlen, Brent Lillibridge, Phil Stockman, Jordan Schafer, Brandon Hicks Josh Anderson, Brandon Jones, JoJo Reyes, Stephen Marek and Anthony Lerew.
The Braves have always been cautious in bringing up players who might be ready to help. Also, many of the names I have listed will probably never get more than a few months with the big show, BUT there are possibilities.
By Wayne in UT
August 16, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
bama the Baldelli/Freel thing is an inside joke….
By 1980's
August 16, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
Is this end for Glavine?….are you kidding me? did you not see him in his last meaningful game against the Marlins when he was a Met and he gave up 7 runs the 1st inning?
By 1980's
August 16, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
Has DOB come to terms with the current state of the braves and their eventual forth place finish? If so I have three words for you buddy… LETS GO METS, LETS GO METS!! LETS GO METS!!…sorry about that. it was nine words.
By Robert S
August 16, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
fastasballs, the Braves’ call-ups might be the only thing to look forward to in September, unless you want to root for the Marlins to overtake the Phils and Mets.
SR, we started to see this was a bad team when KJ dropped that pop fly in the 9th vs. the Phillies earlier this year. We realized this team’s chances were shot against these same Phillies right before the trade deadline, when they should have swept them in Philly but lost two of three.
The last two weeks have made it plainly obvious to anyone who had a sliver of hope (me included) that this team isn’t going to touch .500, and could lose 90 games.
This team was predicted to do well (heck, some predicted a World Championship), but really though - as solid as some of the Braves players are, was the expectation of this team to contend (with all the potential pratfalls it had at the start) realistic?
There was a lot of hope invested in the Braves squeezing one more solid year out of Smoltz and Glavine. The outfield looked solid (emphasis: looked) but didn’t strike fear into the hearts of NL pitchers. The infield was soild at the corners and shaky up the middle (particularly in KJ’s case).
The bullpen, outside of Soriano, Moylan, and Boyer, was equally shaky. As it turns out, Boyer might have to have his arm re-attached after the season from all its (over)use.
True, there have been surprises (particularly Campillo and JJ, and Blanco has emerged as a decent leadoff guy), but there was a lot of hope placed in a team that needed an awful lot of things to go right for them to contend. And when things went wrong - first, the injuries, then the lackluster play - there was no going back. They either were going to piece together a 90-win season or they were going to fall flat on their collective faces.
And now, we have a team comprised of a few good players, one or two great players, and a heaping of other teams’ spare parts or rejects.
This, for those of you who weren’t following the Braves late 1980’s, is what those vintage teams looked like. Not real pretty, eh?
By THB
August 16, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
Hope the Braves get an ace in some way. If they get a power bat but not an ace I’d be disappointed. I’d like to see a Peavy or Halladay here. We haven’t had a durable ace since Glavine (Pre-Met). If we could extend him we would have an ace for years and build around him. The path that needs to be taken is simple. If they can find a power LF bat, an ace, a #3 starter, and some bullpen help, we can somehow contend. But that’s unlikely without giving up Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Medlen, Gorkys, or Schafer. So I’d say look for an ace first, try for the rest but don’t gut the farm system on a team that has a p**-poor attitude and desperately needs some changes.
By Wayne in UT
August 16, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this
OK, OK, so my 2am venture in GM’ing didn’t go over well last night. Well, tonight it is only 12:30 (East Coast time).
Maybe you will like my newest proposals better. All in baseball fun, remember. No poisonous darts, etc.
We save this much money, so that is what I will spend. (I might be off some, so please forgive)
Tex 12.5 million Hampton 8 million (I am going with the acctg version) Glavine 8 million Smoltz 14 million Kotsay 2 million Ohman 1.5 million Diaz 1.2 million
That comes to about 47 million saved we will call it. Not trying to be too perfect here. Some possible insurance savings for Hudson. Gotta hand some out though. An extra 4 million to Soriano, and a 5 million raise to Chipper (he has been playing on the cheap lately). An extra 3 roughly for McCann. Probably 3-4 million for some other raises.
47 minus 16 = 31 to spend. Wow, it goes away fast.
OK, to start with, lets cut to the chase and sign CC for about 22 million for about 15 years (being slightly tongue in cheek with the years, but not with the amount.).
That leaves us with only 9 million for a power hitting outfielder. Not enough for Maggs Ordonez, Manny, Dunn, Burrell, or Abreu.
OK, I have the answer. Let’s sign Mark Kotsay for 4 million, Raul Ibanez for about 5 million, and then tada…. Barry Bonds for minimum salary. We could use him when his knees don’t hurt in LF, and as a super pinch hitter. (We can now get rid of Ruben Gotay)
OH HECK, I forgot to get a second pitcher. I guess we can ship out Tommy Hanson and Jason Heyward for Roy Halladay…..but wait a minute, that shoots our budget all to hell again.
I guess we will just have to go with CC, JJ, Morton, Campillo and JoJo. (Chuckie James is always in the wings.
Our lineup:
SS Escobar CF Kotsay 3B Chipper LF Barroid C McCann RF Francoeur 1B Krotchman 2B KJ
Is this any better than last nights team for 2009. At least I have more power! Spent all the money, and guaranteed the World Series.
What, you say there are still holes in my lineup. You want Prado at second, and KJ where. What about Blanco and Anderson to infuse speed into the lineup.
Wait a minute, I have Ibanez for to cover Frenchy’s back. Isn’t that enough???
Guys, tell me where I went wrong!!!!
By bravos2249
August 16, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop
lol @ your 11:19
BossLady
If I remember correctly Smoltzie’s shoulder started hurting him in 2005, and aside from Moylan, every other picther that has had an injury (not tied to just wear over 9 yrs (Huddy)) has came from another team or Hampton.
Said players: Gonzo,Soriano,Dotel came with damage labels.
Players: Jurrjens,Acosta,Bennett,Boyer,Thomson,Ramirez,Reitsma,James,Carlyle,Paronto, etc. had injuries not directly related to Roger.
By uga-brave
August 16, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this
please dont laugh too hard.
francoeur is one of the few everyday players that has a upside.
i have been his biggest critic because he has been shoved down our mouth by the braves p.r. people.
he has embraced the the next big thing role and now has been humbled.
i really believe for the first time in his career that it is not a given anymore.
that is a good thing. he has seen his star fall, has watched someone who he always thought he was better then excell (macc) now i finnaly think he has to adjust.
he may or may not be able to do that but at least i think he knows for the first time it is not going to be given to him.
humility effects people differently. he is a competitor, if he fails or succeeds it will not be becuase a lack of effort.
he wants to win, he wants to be the best, no doubt in my mind about that.
i think he is finally over the entitlement thing.
he needs to go back and find the power thing, if that is possible.
the .slg % thing is really concerning. we should not worry about him hitting the ball to the right side.
we need him to be a 30-35 hr. guy. if he does that everyhing else will fall into place.
i will take him and his desire over kelly any day.
By uga-brave
August 16, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this
time for all the homers to back away and take a outside look on this franchise.
there are more holes then you think.
at this point the esco johnson thing offensively is well below average.
i know the averages are not terrible, but they pale in comparison to utley, rollins. ramirez, uggla, and reyes, castillo when you factor in the speed defense thing.
time to get what you can for k.j. not that he is terrible but because you have now committed to a left handed first baseman.
the braves really need two really good right handed hitters.
diaz will not be back. always thought brandon phillips would be a nice fit.
as long as terry mcjerk takes the wait and see attitude we are going to be pretty bad.
braves need to shake it up but terry loves his title, parking space, and the mini fridge in his office.
By SR
August 16, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
Robert S
Good points man, right down the line. Couldn’t add anything more to that.
By Tomas
August 16, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
Would this team be a lot better without so many injuries. I would think so, but right now they’ve been very healthy(compared to the last 3 months) and are playing horrible. Pitching is still very vulnerable to all the injuries, but the defense, baserunning and offense is just not consistent. If you consider all the plays that weren’t made, that then turn into runs, you would notice how the defense has been.
The pop-outs being dropped(Kelly), the flyballs lost in the sky(Kotsay), missing the ball in the ground in the outfield(Blanco),tagging runners without knowing were the baserunners are(Mac, Yunel), not catching relay throws or making bad relay’s to the plate(Yunel), and all the doble-plays that haven’t been turned( Yunel, & Kelly).
This is just sloppy baseball. Having good defense is esencial to winning, and pitching would be a lot better. They need to find a way to stay sharp and focused in the game. Maybe more infield practice, or something like that before the game.
By the way JJ has really been bothered by stolen bases. 86% of the runners that have runned against them have been sucesfull, and the 2 runs that he gave up came after a stolen base. He needs a better move to first, or a quicker move to the plate.
By Brave's outfielder Jeff Francoeur
August 16, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
thats right, ugabrave
read it and weep
on the ajc online survey, most people think the chosen one will hit for the cycle
the phoenix of Delta will rise again
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
Anyone see that good-lookin’ American woman take third in the 10,000 meters tonight? That was some emotional stuff. She passed two runners in the last couple of laps and shocked everyone, including herself, with a bronze-medal performance, with her mom in the crowd cheering like crazy the whole way. The girl runs for UNC, but is from outside Boston.
By JMP
August 16, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
I have been a fan of this team since ‘69. After the Giant loss Friday night, there is no doubt that we have come full circle.
After Cox came back, I can remember Skip comforting us that the organization was finally going in the right direction. No one could have predicted what happened in the 90’s.
The thing that is concerning is whether the farm system is real or not. Skip’s comments in the 80’s were regarding prospects like David Justice, Javy, Ryan, Chipper, and the young guns while they were in AA. Does anyone remember them sending a young second baseman named Ron Gant down so he could learn the outfield?
There was a lot of hope back then. But ‘91 was a surprise. There was little to no expectation for that team. There was a new GM and Cox was sent back to the field. Leo had been in the organization at different levels for years. Simpley said, lightening was caught in a bottle.
I really hope Frank has a better farm system than Cox inherited when he came back. But even if he does, this is going to painful.
And with all the criticism John and Bobby have taken regarding the lack of multiple championships, the fact of the matter is, Bobby rebuilt the organization from gound up and John put all the pieces in the right order.
The Dodgers of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s had continuity both on the field and off. The real key is whether this organizaiton has the talent to succeed the management team that has built the Braves into a winner.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this
Bama, Baldelli is back now playing for the Rays. Played seven innings yesterday in RF in that long game. He was 3-for-13 with three singles and an RBI in four games before tonight….
uga-brave, you’re losing me with the continued mini-fridge reference about McGuirk. Where does that come from, what’s the joke that I’m not getting?
By uga-brave
August 16, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
dob,
yeah i am a runner. looking forward to seeing what legat does in the 1500 and 5000.
how about phelps outstretch, good stuff.
By BA
August 16, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this
JMP, I’m not sure if the Braves minors are going to yield as many players as back then. But who really knows? I think they’ve done a good job drafting/signing good young players with strong skill sets. But player development is so inexact- look at Schafer, for example- in the spring you heard that he could play in Atlanta now, but he’s only hit around .230-.240 all season.
Heyward and Freeman have had hella years, but it could be a different story in a year, like Schafer.
As far as pitching, they have a LOT of young arms at every level (short of Richmond, of course). But these pitchers are all still very young.
By uga-brave
August 16, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, think tommy boy.
By JMP
August 16, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
BA, I absolutely agree with you. Back then we were satisfied with Pete Smith, Tommy Greene and Kent Mercker. They ended up being the throw-aways. But if the system is producing major league talent, there is always a chance.
By Archbishop of Canterbury
August 16, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
Tommy, There is a Teamsters meeting somewhere with your name all over it. Go to it and explain how “independent contractors” equate with tool and dye men on an assembly line and discuss union solidarity because your old man was probably big up in Billerica preaching the “word”—Tommy, You Are a Fraud of near epic proportions. Your sorry emaciated butt has never cared ONE IOTA about the real union man in this country and you and your ilk would have transversed picket lines so fast as to make people’s heads swim if it would have involved holding up a baseball season.
Tommy, Get lost and take your dead arm and your super slacker compadre and head off for Morocco or Tahihi—just don’t do any more damage here. Canine!!
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this
Phelps’ finish was amazing. What an remarkable way for him to tie Spitz’s gold-medal record. That kind of drama and emotion, that’s why you watch this stuff.
By Reality Based
August 16, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this
Dear dave, I’ve been gone 2 weeks. Are we buyers or sellers?? or should i check with mark for a new target date.
This will be43 years of pro sports teams in Atlanta with ONE Championship!!! Atlanta isn’t a bad sports town,Atlanta has the most inept teams in pro sports history.
4 teams—43 years- ONE CHAMPIONSHIP—You All Come Out Now—No, I Think not!!
By BA
August 16, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this
Very Lou Vales…
By We are all over Blaine Boyer day and night
August 16, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this
Blaine Boyer was in the Olympics.
Did you notice? He ran a 10.2 in the 1 meter. He was awarded a goo medal for his effort.
By NO MORE BOBBY
August 16, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this
Was at the game tonight and sat 2 rows back from third and could look into the Giants dugout (who the flip are those guys - didn’t know one player), oh…. the Braves have no life at all out on the field. We all know its not going to be a playoff year but to give up in August kinda makes me mad that I pay money to see a church softball type attitude from the guys.
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!
By BA
August 16, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this
I was kind of hoping for Smoltz the closer in 2010.
By Ferdinand
August 16, 2008 3:51 AM | Link to this
Last?
By ncscoots
August 16, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
scoots I wonder what percentage of players that are categorized as middle-tier actually make it to play 5+ years in the bigs.
Probably close to the same percentage of top 10 prospects, i.e., not very high. I’m not saying that trade packages should only include these lesser prospects; only that trade packages don’t have to include only top prospects to be attractive.
On another note, Wayne touted Randy Winn as a possible guy in the offseason. From his numbers against the Braves, should have done it in self-defense, LOL.
And speaking of CF, I saw Jordan Schafer play recently. Folks, there is nothing wrong with that kid, whatsoever. He looked outstanding, and even had some good ABs against lefties. 21 at AA, and missing 50 games, to boot, it’s just taken him a while to catch up. I imagine the Braves will want him to play winter ball of some kind to make up for lost time, but I think he has a chance next spring, if only in a platoon. Bottom line, I wouldn’t judge him on his season numbers, if you’re looking to evaluate him.
By stew
August 16, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Bring back Andruw. The Dodgers would eat more than half his salary. I just can’t believe he’s finished. I’ve been watching him too long. Too many balls dropped in centerfield this year that Andruw would have caught. He’s riding the pines for 18 mill a year.We could get him for 3 years with a team option for a 4th year for next to nothing. It’s a risk worth taking. We don’t have anybody better. Don’t kid yourselves he’s the greatest player in the history of the franchise.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
stew,
As I recall, Kotsay lost one ball. That cost one run. How many games/runs did Andrew cost us in ‘07 by fogetting how to hit? It’s all relative.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
69
Remember when the Met’s bullpen collapsed… oh, wait, that’s happened several times THIS YEAR!!!
By JC from UT
August 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
let’s say the Angels do notre-sign Tex. Would they be willing to trade Nick Adenhart for Casey Kotchman? And if so, why not try to sign Pat Burrell to play first. Burrell actually was drafted as a 3RD baseman and when he was called up, the Phillies played him at 1ST for about 2-3 months. This way we don’t have to worry about his lack of mobility in LF. He can serve as a “stop-gap” who usually hits arounf .270-.290 and seems to always drive in 100 until Heyward or Freeman are ready. Plus it would give us a promising pitching prospect. I would suspect that the Angels would want Kotchman back if they did not re-sign Tex, who will likely end up in NY.
BC also needs to start Prado more often. I’m not trying to debate the KJ/Prado scenerio, but we all know what KJ brings to the table but we do not know about Prado with extended palying time. And who knows, if Prado plays well it may increase his trade value or will give FW the confidence to trade KJ.
One last thought. Has FW/BC soured on Brandon Jones? I say brig him up and let him play some RF. Between B.Jones and Josh Anderson, I would rather see what BJ has in August over JA. This team does need some speed but it desperately needs power in the outfield. Bring Brandon up, he may well be the LF power hitter we’re looking for plus it could put some pressure on JF to be a better hitter because BJ could also be his replacement in RF.
One more question, Iknow I am rambling on… Does Yunel have any speed at all. I really like him and think he has actually hit the wall of too many innings, but on ground balls,especially in double play situations, he does not even make it close at 1st base. He seems to trot down the line instead of busting it. I wish more players would take lessons fron Scott Thorman on busting it down the line. Thorman had his troubles but it was not for a lack of hustle. I would think Yunel had much more speed and would hustle a bit more. Any thoughts?
By Random by Sports & Music Assemble People©
August 16, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
Coach: “Michael Phelps is already the greatest Olympic athlete of all time.”
I call BS on this. BS!!!!!
He may be the greatest Olympic swimmer of all time, but even that’s not a lock. I heard that his “worst” stroke was the butterfly (I think). If so, that’s only because he does not even attempt the backstroke (at least not competitively).
And then you’ve got how many swimming events? Vs how many similar events in other sports?
There are sixteen men’s Olympic swimming events — are there even near as many events in any other sport?
And we’re not talking an umbrella category like Track & Field. How many other sports in the Olympics offers so many events that one athlete can compete in? None!
That’s what I call “medal inflation”. Just because swimmers have more opportunities to win medals than athletes in other sports does not make them better athletes when they do.
Plus, how can you say that an effete, hairless swimmer is a better athlete than a 10-event decathlete?!?!? Or a cross-country skier? Or a gymnast? The only thing that swimmers have got going for them is Upper Body Strength(including torso), plus a little kick coordination.
Even half-naked beach volleyball players have both the UBS and a vertical leap!
No, the best Olympic athlete is a male gymnast. Any male Olympic gymnast is a better all-round athlete than any puny Olympic swimmer.
And you can tell your ma I said so!
By TheCutMan
August 16, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Here’s my fan’s ode to the Braves’ 2008 season: (Bonnie Tyler)
Once upon a time I was falling in love But now I’m only falling apart There’s nothing I can do A total eclipse of the heart Once upon a time there was light in my life But now there’s only love in the dark Nothing I can say A total eclipse of the heart
By LivininAL
August 16, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
I would like to see Glavine come back for one start near the end of the season, pitch a good game, have the ump expand the strike zone, get a crowd response, tip his cap and retire. It has been a good run, but Tom has crossed the finish line. I wish him the best on the golf course next year. Glavine has made Atlanta proud over the years.
By Random by Sports & Music Assemble People©
August 16, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
*NO MORE BOBBY *: “SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!”
Definitely agree with the sentiment, but I think Maddux would be a way better manager than Smoltz.
But either way, it’s okay with me.
It’s just a crying shame — a damned shame that seems to get worse and worse every year — how he butchers his bullpen thru consistent misuse ans stupid stubbornness.
I’m just totally fed up with it now. Bobby Cox — hiss and idiot.
By SNIPER-69
August 16, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Freak, you might want to check the standings. I don’t want to hurt your feelings but the braves are way out of first and way under .500 with little hope left for the season……remember that!!
By Random by Sports & Music Assemble People©
August 16, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
TheCutMan?
Or TheCutPu$$y?
Or the Cu#tMan?
Whatever. Blow it out your mens — you’ll feel better, believe me.
By Braveheart
August 16, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
How could someone named The Cut Man post lyrics to Bonnie Tyler’s Total Eclipse of the Heart? You’re digging a little too deep into the 13 year old girl within you. Might as well change your moniker to Debra Winger or Molly Ringwald while you’re at it.
By Jeff R
August 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Braves need to get younger, not older. Why waste the money on Glavine? He needs to start his count to Cooperstown.
Smoltz may be worth a look to bolster the bullpen later next season. But who knows if surgery on a 40-plus shoulder will make him whole again.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Bruce, favorite songwriter? Can’t pick one. Hard to even narrow it to a dozen. Just too many great ones.
I’d start with, in the live-guy (or girl) category: Tom Waits, Bob Dylan, Steve Earle, James McMurtry, Van Morrison, Shane MacGowan (still alive, amazingly), Paul Westerberg, Lucinda Williams, Greg Brown, Bruce Springsteen, Willie Nelson, Robert Earl Keen, Todd Snyder, Kris Kristofferson, Leon Huff/Kenny Gamble, Mick Jagger/Keith Richards (still alive, even more amazing), Billy Joe Shaver, Tom T. Hall, Merle Haggard, Guy Clark, Jeff Tweedy, Jay Farrar … there’s just too many.
And in the gone category: Townes Van Zandt, Hank Williams, John Lennon, Johnny Cash.
By Mitch
August 16, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry to say, that I think Glavine might be done, for a career. I was the biggest Tom Glavine fan during his first sixteen years with the Braves, and I felt like a family member had left in 2002 when he went to the despised New York Metropolitans. When Tommy returned last November, I, along with other Braves fans, probably had October dreams dancing in our heads. Now, with Tom on the DL for the third time this season, after just one start back, we have to wonder if it’s the end for him.
Ths scary part is that the guy has never had arm problems until this year. Except for the rib injury way back in 1992 that DLed him for two weeks, Tom has been remarkably healthy. I honestly thought when he re signed that we would get what the Mets got from Tom in 2005 and 2007, about 12 to 14 wins, and 200 innings, and a 4 ERA. That, from a third or fourth starter, had Smoltzie and Hudson been healthy, would have been just fine. With our budget as tight as it is, and our future so uncertain pitching wise, with Hudson gone for three quarters of 2009, and Smoltz maybe never coming back at all, we need younger, durable pitchers to put into the rotation with Jair.
As much as I would love to see Tommy have that “One last magicial year in the sun”, to retire on an up note, he will be 43 at the beginning of next season John S was extremely reluctant in 2002 to commit a long term deal to an older pitcher, due to injury, and Smoltz and Glavine’s imjury woes this year have proven his fears were valid.
It really might be time for Tom to hang it up. He’s had a great career, and will be a Brave forever. If he cant come back healthy, he will have the comfort of knowing that come 2014, he will be inducted into the Hall of Fame, maybe, along with his good friends Smoltz and Maddux, if both retire at the end of this year as well.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Couch Tater: Good of you to say that about Jerry Wexler. A true legend. I know a guy who’s a producer for Fox’s baseball broadcast, and he’s good friends with Wexler. Told me a few weeks ago that he was in real bad shape.
He gave me a compilation CD signed by Jerry a while back, with just an incredible, eclectic array of the hits that man produced. What a rich body of work, one of the guys who really helped shaped American popular music, from R&B to rock n’ roll.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Random whatever you’re calling yourself: Did you refer to Phelps as “puny?” Really? Isn’t he something like 6-4, 220?
And the male gymnasts you put ahead of him on the athletic scale, aren’t they considerably smaller than that? Just wondering. Not that it matters, just wondering why you called Phelps puny, seems to show a complete lack of knowledge on the matter.
Oh, and what the H does “halrless” have to do with anything? You do understand most of them do that only for the bigger meets, right, to (literally) shave a few hundredths of a second off their times? Been done for a long time, my man.
But then, you also put gymnasts ahead of swimmers on this odd macho scale of athletics that you’ve apparently devised in that mind of yours.
Most of us just watch the sports, without conjuring these images you’ve unfortunately put in our minds with that kind of creepy post.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Dear dave, I’ve been gone 2 weeks. Are we buyers or sellers?? or should i check with mark for a new target date.Reality Based
No need to check with Mark. We can get that new target date for you. We’re putting it together now. G o away for another couple weeks — no, make it three, just to be safe — and we’ll have it for you when you get back. Cool?
By DAP
August 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
jeffr Braves need to get younger, not older.
the bravesdont need to resign glavine, but they dont need to get younger. if they get much younger there will be no chance of this being a winning team. im pushing for the braves to sign ibanez and cameron.these are guys that will probably sign 2 year deals (maybe 3 for cameron) so they will help us win, and not clog up the outfield for our young guys coming up.
By Irish Moose
August 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Rebuild, rebuild, and rebuild. Braves need to cut bait with anyone over 30. Bye bye Smoltz, Glavine, Kotsay, Gotay, Norton, Hampton, Soriano etc. Lets see what we got in Schaefer, Josh Anderson, and Scott Thorman. I put on the TV and see guys like Greg Norton playing. Cmon Bobby lets see if the young guys have it. If not lets move on. This off season go after young pitching (Sabathia and Sheets). Keep Kotchman, Johnson, Esocobar, McCann, Gonzalez, Jurgens, Morton, Campillo and Francour. The only vet I would keep would be Chipper for the veteran leadership. Maybe look to add Matt Holliday or another young power bat. This team has no power in the outfield, especially with Frenchy struggling.
By cooper
August 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
This team is so deflated right now there is almost no reason to expect them to win a game regardless of the opponent.
Losing Tex for the complete total void that is Kotchman (he is not as bad as he looks but wow what a collapse) and then Hudson basically set this team on a road to lose 90 games.
Getting to .500 seems like a fantasy at this point with the players who are taking the field every night.
While I understand financial issues and a desire to protect some farm pieces it is very disappointing to watch a team do very little as key players go down.
Since ST there have been holes to fill and the best that mgt could do is pick up Gotay, Norton, Tavarez, Nueno, et al?
The injuries were off the charts but the response to those injuries was equally shocking.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
For those of you who are so down on the Braves’ Farm System. Look back five or six years and tell me you knew that Brian McCann would be a .300 25+HR and 90-100RBI player.
Yeah right. Sure you did. Mac just goes to show that you never know what you have until they prove it. We could very well have several more Superstars in the making-or not. We’ll just have to see. Won’t we?
By DP
August 16, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Now that Bobby has admitted to burning out everybody in the bullpen, let’s keep sending Jurjjens out there every fifth day to pitch 7-8 innings in meaningless games and see if he can go 200+ for the year without breaking down this year or next.
By DAP
August 16, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
i think this lineup would be pretty good, and is extremly doable for the braves:
it goes L, R, L, R the whole time, has good power, and we can do it and still have plenty of money for pitching.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
DAP-Dude, you and I agree frequently, but I’ve got to ask how realistic you think our chances are going to be if we address the outfield situation and don’t deal with the pitching? Also, if we DO deal with the outfield as you suggest, how do we afford the pitching, which considering we need a number one and three starter, will be ultra expensive?
I think we need to realize a couple things here-1.That it is the Pitching, the pitching and the pitching-in that order and 2.Yes, it might just take until 2010 to put together the group of players we need to return us to the level of success to which we have been accustomed.
I see nothing much to be gained if we get more late in career players such as Cameron and do nothing to address what has become painfully apparent-we need a return to Stud Pitching. We need to put first things first and get the pitching, what ever it takes.
We can win with an outfield of Blanco, Kotsay, and Francoeur, with Josh Anderson as 4th outfielder (if Bobby lets them run), IF we have an incredible, innings eating rotation, which will, in and of itself, solve the bullpen problems, which are directly related to continual overuse. We do not need any more 40 something, 5 inning pitchers and if we address that problem in good shape, we can afford to wait on Shafer, Heyward and Hanson.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
It occurs to me that the Braves are 2-16 vs. The Phillies and the Cubs. We have a winning record against The Rest of Baseball (despite all those one run losses). I’m interested in what this says to the Denizens. What y’all think seriously-not a typical Supes’ Francoeur sucks and needs to be sent to rookie ball response.
By THB
August 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
DAP-I just don’t see how that lineup is any better than the one we had this year. I mean, we take out Blanco’s OBP and put in Cameron’s. Huge dropoff for a little power. Then we but in Ibanez in place of Kotsay and it’s a bit of an upgrade. But then we replaced Kotchman with Teixeira…and our #3 and #4 hitters will both miss a good amount of time. I’m pretty sure we won’t win anything until Bobby, Chipper, Smoltz, and Glavine retire. Chipper is great and still plays at a high level, but his body is a mess. Smoltz has had a ton of surgeries, when will his body give up? Glavine could be done after this season, and as far as Bobby goes I just think it’s time for someone new. I think Bobby could get it done but not with this group, right now. Something isn’t right with this bunch.
By Savannah Guy
August 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Favorite songwriters?
Add to that list of David’s: Johnny Mercer, Paul Simon, Steve Winwood, George Jones, James Taylor… so many more. A favorite would be impossible.
On the Olympics: The split-screen Costas interview with Phelps and Spitz last night was, to use one of Mark’s oft repeated words last night, “epic”.
Phenom Phelps phinished phirst by a phinger. Phrikkin phantastic pheat!
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Lew, I agree with your 11:23, especially the 1st 3 paragraphs and the end of the last one. However, I’d like to see Schafer get a September call-up and challenge Blanco for the CF slot next season. I agree that the current OF could (maybe) get it done IF we acquire a couple big-time innings eaters (agreed whole-heartedly on that part that those are our primary needs), but I’d rather see a Burrell/Schafer/Francoeur OF with Blanco as a 4th OF.
If Josh Anderson hasn’t been called up by now, I doubt he’s in our long-term plans. Sorry for all of you Anderson lovers out there, but if you really think about it….he’s not on the roster next season.
I’d be surprised to see Heyward in early 2010, just because he’s so young. Unless the Braves push him next season and start him in AA, the earliest I’d expect to see him is midseason 2010, as an injury fill-in.
By Zimmerman
August 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Hey, Dave, I think you neglected me when listing your favorite songwriters. You got a lotta nerve to say you are my friend!
By Merle Haggard
August 16, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
You left me off, too, Dave. You’re walkin’ on the fightin’ side of me!
By Tom T. Hall
August 16, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the props, Dave. And I … love… you … too!
By DAP
August 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
LEW how realistic you think our chances are going to be if we address the outfield situation and don’t deal with the pitching?
i dont think we shouldnt address the pitcing. BUT, keep in mind that for much of the year, pitching was the strong point of this team. (i realize that was with hudson in the mix) this team, surprisingly, has struggled to score runs. the reason is 4 players counted on to make big offensive contributions underachieved. francouer, diaz, johnson, and escobar. (johnson and escobar not as much as the other two but they have still done worse than what we expected)
i disagree that we can win with an outfield of blanco, anderson and francouer.
i think we can sign ibanez and cameron for $7-8mil each. that means if we have $40mil free (which i think we will have more) we are still going to have $24mil to get some pitching. i think we can do it, and i do think think its important to get some veterans here. also, these guys will not demand long term deals, so we are still open for heyward and shafer coming up in a few years.
thats just what i think. im hoping that wren tries to build this team to win in ‘09 while still positioning for the future.
By Savannah Guy
August 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Whoops. Sorry Zimmerman… you would be very near the top of my list. Just that the times, they are always a’changin’ and such. Your’e there along with Lennon-McCartney, Harrison, Bowie, Bono, Stipe, Cobain… jump to Cole Porter, so on and so forth all over the place. Oh, and Bernie Taupin. I give… too many.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
U.S. is absolutely toying with Spain in hoops.
By the way, they’re getting ready to interview Jurrjens at the Little League World Series on ESPN….
Can’t believe I left Dylan off. That shoulda been at the top, with Waits and another I left off — Springsteen. And yes, Hag goes on it. Knew I’d forget several.
So I’ll revise that comment, since I can.
By brian
August 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
DOB - after watching last night’s race, seems to me that it probably is worthwhile to shave body hair to shave a couple houndredth of a second off their time. Just call it a hunch.
By brian
August 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
DOB - after watching last night’s race, seems to me that it probably is worthwhile to shave body hair to shave a couple houndredth of a second off their time. Just call it a hunch.
By flange1
August 16, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Lew,
I agree with you. If we had a rotation that could shut down other offenses and keep themselves in the game for awhile, our bullpen would “fix itself.”
I am happy Josh Anderson is playing well, but with the construction of this team, I don’t see either Josh or Brandon Jones having a spot on this team.
It seems to me that we spend MOST of our money on the rotation and get a LF that is RH that can help the team against LH pitching.
My opinion is that Braves Management will give the core group of youngsters KJ, Escobar, Frenchy, Kotchman and B Mac at least 1 more year together to see if they can gel.
Blanco has played well and has earned a shot at CF full time next year, but I too would like to see Schaffer in that mix.
We need a RH outfielder to complement the LH we have at 2B, 1B and C.
We are in a fix because all of our young OF talent Schaffer, Blanco, Anderson and B Jones are LH. We have a couple of years before G Hernandez is ready.
Matt Diaz is a great PH and fill in guy, but not the answer.
I know dealing with Houston is next to impossible, but Carlos Lee would be the perfect addition for LF. (I know dream on, it will not happen)
I would like to see a trade for a starting pitcher, the signing of a #3 starting pitcher and maybe the signing of a #5 or a comeback guy who starts.
We have to have an additional RH hitter full time in this lineup. It would help if had a little power.
I like Prado, I like Infante and I like Lillibridge, but I don’t think any of the three is the answer.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
I also left Mr. Lennon off the list. And Shane MacGowan (of the Pogues). And Van Morrison. So I revised it. It’s now my official list. No more additions. George Jones was knockin’ at the door, and so were Waylon, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Pauls Simon and McCartney, Bernie Taupin/Elton John, etc, etc. Just too many.
By DAP
August 16, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
THB try looking at it this way.
replace kotsay with cameron. cameron has an .831 OPS to kotsay’s .786. cameron’s defense is as good as kotsay’s and cameron can even steal a few bases. thats center field.
now compare ibanez with blanco. blanco has about 16 OBP points on ibanez, which isnt that much, and ibanez’s ops is .851 compared to blanco’s .692. thats left field.
also the reason i like getting these two guys is because cameron can play all three outfield positions, so we will have three guys that can do that if needed (blanco, infante, cameron). and ibanez can play both corners.
so, with these two guys, we have a well stocked outfield with power, good defense, and veteran leadership, with guys who wont have long contracts so they wont block our younger players. thats a good offense that still enables us to get pitching.
the only area that might make this not a good idea is if these guys will cost more than i thought. im thinkingthey will make $16mil a year between them at the most.
By Dylan Kight
August 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
No love for Ryan Adams? I’ll tell you who has risen fast on my songwriter list is Ben Gibbard of Death Cab fame, great songwriter! These lists are always fun but you know you’re always missing one. You can go on and on about this stuff. That’s what I think the connection to baseball is—Like who is the greatest second basemen? Same type of debate. That’s why I love this blog because it connects my two passions so well.
By DAP
August 16, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
flange1 Blanco has played well and has earned a shot at CF full time next year,
if his slg% had about .050 points on it, id agree with you. maybe he will develop a little gap power.
also, carlos lee is extremly over paid these next couple of years. $18mil a year is too much for him, even though he is a good player.
By keylargo
August 16, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
By brian
August 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
DOB - after watching last night’s race, seems to me that it probably is worthwhile to shave body hair to shave a couple houndredth of a second off their time. Just call it a hunch.
Being 6’ 4” with an 80 inch reach didn’t hurt either.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Flange-Carlos Lee just broke a finger and will likely miss the rest of the season, if my memory serves me correctly. Too much of a question mark, to my way of thinking, as those type of injuries can take a long time to heal correctly. For the salary he commands, I would look elsewhere.
Same goes for those who are so hot to try for Oswalt. The guy has not been himself this year and has spent some down time as well. I don’t want any recently injured pitchers to join the growing list from 08.
I’d rather find a RH power hitting outfielder who is young and not quite as proven, that we can lock up for several years at a reasonable price. I would like if we could have Matt Diaz as a pinch hitter/fourth outfielder, but his knee is still giving him problems and I’m beginning to wonder how well he can come back-especially after his early season non-performance.
We have DEFINITELY got to concentrate on young, innings eating stud pitchers. Even if this turns into a two year plan, that is our first priority. I have nothing against winning 2-1 and 3-2 games. I just want to see some winning again.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Dylan Kight, yes, I overlooked Ryan Adams, even the second time around. And you’re right, he probably belongs on any top-20 list of songwriters in the genres I like. He’s outstanding.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
DAP- Dude, $16 mil (or a couple more as you surmise) will put way too large a dent in what needs to be spent on pitching-ESPECIALLY since we have young outfield talent only a year away. You will always be able to find outfielders somewhere.
This is our first opportunity in years to actually spend $$$$ on pitching, which we have seen enumerable times, is what makes teams dominant and led to our 14 year run of success. Besides-NO MORE RETREADS as options. It hasn’t worked yet and will continue not to do so. If we are not destined to win, then let the kids have their shot. Get the pitching squared away first and foremost. The rest will fall into place.
Hey-maybe we could get Coco Crisp.
By Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
August 16, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
All those who want to hail George Jones as a singer, be my guest. He’s deserving of the highest of praise — great lyrics seem even greater through the depth of expression George Jones’ vocal genius brings to them.
When it comes to songwriting, however, George penned a few of his early hits and practically nothing in the years since. No way he’s worthy to stand on any short list of great songwriters.
By the way, Dave & Savannah Guy, where’s John Prine on your lists? Lefty Frizzell? Harlan Howard? Bill Monroe? John Fogerty? Carter Stanley? Joe South? Arthur Alexander? Smokey Robinson? Lester Flatt?
The list goes on and on.
By flange1
August 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
DAP and Lew,
I know that Carlos Lee is a pipe dream. He is expensive, but with the rising players salaries, is it too much? He is a guy from Texas and wants to stay there, and the Astros still think they are in it.
I know he is not an option, but I would like a player in that mold. Lew suggests someone younger, but I can’t come up with a name.
Wiley Mo Pena?
uuuhhhmmm…..
NO!
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
August 16, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Speaking of glaring great songwriter omissions, let’s please never, ever again forget the great Randy Newman!
By Wayne in UT
August 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Favorite songwriters??? That’s like saying which ice cream cone was your favorite? (my last one, or my next one!)
My attempt at humor last night should have highlighted one thing that many are not factoring.
If the Braves have 45-47 million over and above this year, then you will have to factor in raises to McCann, Soriano, Chipper (will be renegotiated), Gonzo and smaller raises to others.
That $45 million dollar windfall to go to the “player supermarket” will have been dwindled to more like $30 million.
Hard to buy 2-3 top players with that kind of money. Middle rotation FA starters are getting 8-12 mil per, and the true power hitting players are getting 12-18 mil. Just look at some of these guy’s “pre-FA” salaries!
And news flash, Liberty is not going to raise the payroll to $120 million.
By Vince
August 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
I have said it before and I will say it again, This is a BAD team. It’s a good thing TBS dropped them or the whole nation would see them.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Bring Me The Head, exactly right about The Possum. Others wrote most of his hits after his first decade or so.
John Prine, Randy Newman (his new album’s terrific, by the way) and Arthur Alexander, that’s three more that belong on my list (but I won’t cheat by revising even more). Also, as you said, Fogerty is great (despite “Center Field”).
Mellencamp’s also a fine songwriter. And Joseph Arthur, though few seem to know about him because he hasn’t had mainstream hits.
And I can’t believe I left off M. Ward. Superb songwriter.
So, so many.
By Wayne in UT
August 16, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Lew is right. (along with many others).
Work on the pitching, and all else will work itself out.
Might I throw in “pitching and defense”.
By Marietta Dawg
August 16, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
DOB
I’m heading down to the Ted tonight, so I hope the game doesn’t get rained out like it was on Tuesday night. I’m still not too happy that I couldn’t use my tickets for another game, since I couldn’t make it to the Ted before 1 on Wednesday to exchange them. Go Braves!
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
One of the biggest mistakes one cann make while not sleeping is to think about how many RBI a player could have…
Wayne, you weren’t kidding, “Insomnia stinks!”
So this morning I went on baseball-reference.com…Do you all know that McCann has had 320 men on base in front of him this year? And only 69 RBI?
So, I looked at Grove, seeing as how he has the same amount of RBI. He’s had 338 men on in front of him. He also has 7 Go-Ahead Hits to McCann’s 11.
But that doesn’t mean that McCann’s left 251 men on base, or that Grove’s left 269…It just makes you think, “Dang! These guys could have a ton more RBI!”
But they’re both still above the average MLB player with their respective amount of PA. The AMLBP with 430 PA (as many as McCann) has 48 RBI. For Grove’s 448, it’s 50 RBI.
Speaking of which, McCann had a pretty rotten game last night, huh? And he’s 0 for his last 3 with RISP, dropping that AVG to .303, .001 higher than his season AVG.
So if he goes 0-3 tonight, he’s below .300…if he goes 1-4, he’s right at .300…if he goes 2-3, he’s at .304…2-4 puts him at .303…You get my drift…
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Funniest thing just happened. I’ve got Little League World Series on in my office here at Braves/MIB blog home headquarters, and Guam kids are introducing themselves and naming their favorite players.
One after another, they chose Jeter, A-Rod or Manny Ramirez. I’m thinking, yeah, I guess these young Guam kids wouldn’t be big fans of, say, Chipper Jones.
And sure enough, the last kid in the lineup says his name and says his favorite player is … Chipper Jones.
Swear to you, it happened not 5 seconds after I had that thought.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Vince, not exactly going out on a limb with that assessment at this stage of the game, my man. Before they lost half of their key players to injuries (or trade), it wasn’t a bad team. It is now.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
MariettaDawg, wouldn’ be too worried about rain today. It’s sunny and nice inside the Perimeter, and only about a 30 percent chance of isolated t-storms tonight….
And like I said on the blog a couple days ago, if you go to the ticket booth and explain your situation, why you couldn’t get there to exchange your tickets, I’m told they’ll exchange them. It’s a case-by-case thing. They just don’t want to announce that you can use them for any remaining game where tix are available, but you pretty much can if you tell them you couldn’t get there because of work, school, whatever.
By Savannah Guy
August 16, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, yep, Newman’s there. And you’re also right about George Jones. Guess I got carried away. He sure knew how to pick’em though.
The list goes on. Can’t forget Brian Wilson, Joe Strummer, Page-Plant-Jones, Harry Nillson, Sam Phillips, Cat Stevens, Pete Townsend, Lou Reed, Tom Petty, Neil Young and…
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
DOB @ 1:39—
That is too funny!
Very smart kid…
By Woody
August 16, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
None of those kids said Woody Woodward??
By John
August 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Run over ‘em Heap Run Over ‘em
Thanks a lot for the compliment. I appreciate it.
DOB, excellent songwriter list. excellent. I can’t argue with a single name. But (as I proceed to do so anyway) jeez, it seems harsh to leave off Paul Simon and Randy Newman, and even Paul Williams, Johnny Mercer (yeah, I know, before my time too. But still.), Paul McCartney (despite the excellent and compelling arguments, I never really bought that he was less than half of the Lennon MacCartney team), Billy Joel (his great ones make up for all the We Didn’t Start the Fires that he unleashed), and Dar Williams. The latter is coming to Atlanta soon, so maybe she’ll have a chance to change your mind.
John
By Savannah Guy
August 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Braves Trivia:
Q: What would you have if you mixed Spring Training, Winter Hot Stove and General Hospital?
A: The 2008 Braves.
By BravesFanInRockies
August 16, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
flange, Wayne, Lew,
I still like Magglio Ordonez, if the Braves can get him. You don’t lose the defense you would with Dunn or C. Lee. He’s younger than Ibanez. He seems to be a good clubhouse guy.
Even if the Tigers are planning to dump payroll, the Braves would probably have to surrender one of their top pitching prospects to get him as part of the deal — perhaps Morton. As several have mentioned, if the Braves want to get a stud veteran, they’re going to have to give up a prime prospect. FW would have to decide which one he’s willing to swap now. Morton and KJ for Maggs?
If Maggs is the trade target then the Braves probably have to find a starter via free agency and there you’re realistically looking at Dempster, Garland or Lowe.
Another possibility is to go after younger guys via trade — Edwin Jackson of the Rays (or one of the Dodgers’ kids) as a starter, Spilborghs or Seth Smith of the Rockies as an OF. I know I’m overlooking some people. And again, the Braves would probably have to offer KJ or Yunel or one of the better prospects (not Heyward or Freeman, I’m guessing) in a deal for a player who can genuinely upgrade the team in 2009.
Also Wayne, I take your point from last night asking if the front office might want to reconsider its “win now” policy. Truth be told, it would be intriguing to watch them do something like the Rockies or Marlins or Indians have done in recent years and fully rebuild, with Chipper as the only greybeard on the team.
The question is, will fans pay to see a team full of kids that’s guaranteed to lose 90 games but might get a lot better in a couple of years? (And yes, I know, the Braves could fill in a few gaps in the current club and stlll wind up losing 90 games next year anyway.)
By TheCutMan
August 16, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
re:
By Random by Sports & Music Assemble People©
August 16, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
TheCutMan?
Or TheCutPu$$y?
Or the Cu#tMan?
Whatever. Blow it out your mens — you’ll feel better, believe me.I truly am honored to be in the glare of such omnipotent intelligence as yours, Sir. The depth of your intellect to not include the term ‘cutman’ and not have any idea where, in the world of sports, such a vocation could exist has to explain the wonder of your existence, does it not?
The hebetudinous and inimical definitions you advanced for “Cutman” without doubt speak to your advanced education and wisdom. I salute you for this.
And for you, Sir, forever starts NOW, not tonight.
By DAP
August 16, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
lew i see what your saying about this being our chance to get good young pitchers. but, i dont see what that has to do with money. outside of sabathia, prior, perez and garland, there arent any FA pitchers under 30. sabathia is too expensive, prior is injury prone, perez is a head case and garland aint a stud.
this mean if we want young stud innings eaters, we have to trade for them. i know we have to pay them too, but are we gonna get two young guys that will cost us more than $24mil?
my point is, i just dont see how signing two good outfielders to inexpensive short term contracts prevents us from also trading for young inning eating starters. i guess if you want to sign sabathia and sheets, we might not be able to spend on outfielders.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Chuck Brodsky’s playing at Grey Eagle tonight in Ashville, and he’s gonna sing “Whitey and Harry” and dedicate it to Skip. It’s another of his great baseball-themed tunes, and if you haven’t heard it, do a Google for Chuck Brodsky and go to the lyrics section of his website. It’s under Baseball Ballads.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
John, I thought I added Randy Newman to my list. If not, should have. But can’t now. It’s closed. He belongs on it, though. And his new album is great, if you haven’t heard it.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy, can’t disagree with any of your mentions that I omitted. That’s why it’s impossible to do one of these and limit it to, oh, 20.
Lou Reed, Sam Phillips, Neil Young and of course Joe Strummer, from my favorite freakin’ band ever. All belong on it. And no one’s mentioned Gregg Allman. Definitely belongs on it.
And I do love all of Paul Simon’s early work, the masterpieces with Art Garfunkel and Simon’s early solo work (as well as that album he put out a couple years ago, and Graceland).
For Beatles, I’m gonna give credit to Lennon over Paul. Just because John was so much cooler.
By StingerSplash
August 16, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Surprised you didn’t mention Mike Cooley/Jason Isbell/Patterson Hood in your pantheon of great songwriters. Can’t argue with any of your picks, though, not at all. Terrific choices all. Saw one of the best last night — Springsteen. 58 years old, three hours of selling it out on the stage (even if the arena wasn’t sold out - WTF?). Man knows how to put on a show for the people.
By cooper
August 16, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Aren’t Cameron and Ibanez both in their thirties?
Did you not watch this season and see what older players eventually do - break down.
I hope Wren is aiming higher and younger.
He will either have to shoot wad on pitching CC and then trade for Peavy, Bedard or Halladay and shoot another wad on Burrell, Dunn or trade for Matt Holliday to right this ship.
This team needs major additions not 30 something 4th OF and or veteran book mark players.
Schafer basically stunk it up this season so he his going no where but to AA again come April 1 09.
Gorkys is at best a summer 09 or Sept 09 call up.
Blanco is a nice little obp guy who has zero power and JF is a void until proven otherwise.
Think 125++mm payroll and blockbuster trades this off season or it will be right back to 3rd-4th place next year.
Bank on it.
By T
August 16, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
I would find it very ironic if TG wanted to come back for 1 more year and the Braves decline. I hope he (TG) realizes he’s done. But if not, I hope the Braves have the courage to tell him he is done.
There is nothing worse than being bad team, unless you are old and bad and keeping Glavine would be a big piece in that.
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
I’m looking forward to Metallica’s Death Magnetic. It hits stores September 12, I believe.
From the snippets I’ve heard from the album, it looks like they’re going back to their roots a bit.
You know what that means, right?
DEATH SONGS AND GUITAR SOLOS!!!
Gotta love it.
By MattyRoss
August 16, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
DOB How do you feel about Josh Ritter? If Ryan Adams and M. Ward are on mine (which they probably would be) I think I’ve got to have space for him. Also Conor Oberst. Maybe that’s just my 22 years showing, though.
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
just got to the park and found out jonathan sanchez is scratched for tonight and rookie matt palmer is going in his place. palmer was just called up from AAA a few days ago.
palmer was 6-9 in fresno with a 4.13 ERA. this will be his major league debut….not sure what happened to sanchez. the braves got sanchez for three runs in five innings in an 11-4 win on aug. 5
By Lew
August 16, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
DAP-I don’t care what the Free Agent market looks like and I don’t care who is or is not on the trade radar. However, if we do not replace Hudson and get a decent number three pitcher this winter and end up relying on 40 year old five inning pitchers, no matter who we get for the outfield, the result will be no improvement on where we are now.
I just don’t give a damn how they do it, but they’d better or we’re in for another season of futility and crashed, spent bullpens. That’s all there is to it, unless they really think Tommy Hanson is ready to step in and excel at the ML level. I’m not willing to concede that nor would I place that kind of pressure on a rookie like that-especially coming from AA.
Chop Chop-What is Metallica’s lineup these days? They’ve become so dysfunctional lately that I quit keeping up with them.
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
not sure what happened to sanchez. the braves got sanchez for three runs in five innings in an 11-4 win on aug. 5
Hmm…You may have just answered your own question.
; > Thanks for the info!
By BravesFanInRockies
August 16, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Hey Lew,
Did you find it interesting that Bobby conceded that the bullpen was gassed?
Gosh, wonder who in the world might be responsible for that?
By BravesFanInRockies
August 16, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Here’s one for the peanut gallery:
If the Braves were to completely tank the remainder of the season and lose, say, 95 games, what are the chances that Bobby just might retire? Accept a job in the front office evaluating talent (which he’s still very good at) and step aside? Let the new era begin?
Thoughts?
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Hetfield, Ulrich, and Hammett are still there.
Bass has been the revolving door (if three bassists can be considered a revolving door), but Robert Trujillo has actually been the bassist for five years now. (Damn. It really has been five years since that crappy St. Anger came out.)
He’s mostly fingerstyle and slap bass. That’s more along the lines of Cliff Burton, the original (and awesome) bassist for the group back in the early to mid-’80s.
Metallica was the first band I really got into as a punk middle school kid. I’m closing in on 30 now. Like you, I haven’t kept up with them that much, but that’s mainly because they haven’t been putting albums out. I couldn’t care less about the dysfunctional crap, but I know that stuff often fuels the fire of great bands and singer/songwriters. When people get cleaned up, they sometimes lose their edge.
(From the sound of this album, it seems like someone slipped some Jäger into Hetfield’s coffee. It’s about damn time.)
By Tomas
August 16, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Cuba just dominates in the olympics. The reason is the most important thing to them is the internacional team. The US always sends a team of very promising minor leaguers, but Cuba sends there best players. And eveen if the US send the team full of major leaguers, Cuba still beats them, as we witnessed in the world baseball classic.
If Cuban players, could go were ever they want, the best players in the majors would be cubans.
I don’t know how Japan manged to win, but the Dominican Republic team had the best players. Pujols, A-rod(he played for the us), Big papi, Manny,vladdy, soriano, Beltre, Jose Reyes, Volquez, Liriano, Cueto, Pedro. From 1 to 9 that team can hit.
Also Venezuela has a tremendous team. Magglio, Victor Martinaz, Johan Santana, Carlos Zambrano, miguel cabrera, carlos guillen, k-rod.
By TennesseePaul
August 16, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
For Beatles, I’m gonna give credit to Lennon over Paul. Just because John was so much cooler
Uhg. Why bother splitting them? John was so great at the crazy lyrics, but Paul knew how to make a melody for the ages. He’d work it into every instrument he played. As solo artists they were both good, but together they were a super force. It was as if they became one single super song writer. It didn’t hurt either to have George Martin producing.
And of course that doesn’t even get into Harrison who was simply outstanding.
By semiballcoach
August 16, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
DOB—-you forgot the ultimate lyricist—a man who cut cut to the bone just with words—-harry wayne casey
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
just filed this. it should be up on the website in a second….
By CARROLL ROGERS crogers@ajc.com Tom Glavine believes he’s headed to surgery to repair his sore left elbow, but he hopes and believes what he needs is surgery to repair a torn flexor tendon and not his ligament.
Surgery to repair the flexor tendon would require only about three to four months recovery time, Glavine said, in which case he would be ready to pitch at the start of next season, and he would consider pitching next year.
If his ligament is damaged to the point of needing ligament-transplant surgery - which requires 12-16 months recovery and is much more difficult on a 42-year-old - he said he will not have the surgery and he will retire.
Glavine has an appointment with Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham Wednesday to find out which way he’ll go.
“All the discussions I’ve had and the MRI I had before were that it’s my flexor tendon,” Glavine said. “The soreness that I have now is the same soreness I had then. You can pinpoint a needlehead as to where the pain is and it just puts me through the roof when you touch it, so it’s very similar in that regard. There’s been some discussions about what my ligament might look like, but I think there’s a very low percentage that there might be something wrong with my ligament.
“And if there was, honestly, I’d leave it alone and I’d be done. I wouldn’t come back from that kind of surgery now. I’d fix the flexor tendon and leave the ligament alone and live the rest of my life.”
Glavine attempted to return to the mound after two months out Thursday night and felt discomfort while allowing seven runs on seven hits in four innings to the Cubs in an 11-7 loss.
Glavine said his elbow bothered him more Thursday than after his two minor league rehabilitation starts. The Braves put him back on the disabled list Friday morning.
“It’s going down the same road I was before and I know it’s not going to get any better,” Glavine said. “I had one spot on my elbow where you touch it, it hurt, and I didn’t have that before. I knew that wasn’t a good sign.”
As for his future and whether or not he might return next season with the Braves, Glavine said there are too many variables to know just yet.
“There’s too much uncertainty with what’s going on in my arm, No. 1,” Glavine said. “No. 2 I haven’t even remotely sat down and had a conversation with (Braves general manager) Frank (Wren) as to if they have any notions of having me back. I think in their mind a lot of that too would stem from what happens with my elbow.”
Glavine did say he would pitch next year for only Atlanta, where he makes his home with his wife and four children.
“By no means do I want to go through another year with what I’m going through now,” Glavine said. “But at the same time, I don’t think in my mind I want my career to end this way either. That lends me to thinking that I want to pitch next year.”
By cooper
August 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
BC won’t retire unless they give him crap to work with in 09.
He knows 08 is DOA and while he seems pretty p** that mgt threw in the towel (you can see it on his face now) he will be hopeful going into December.
If Wren gets beaten mightily at the FA table (so to speak) and cannot pull off trades for players like Halladay, Holliday and others of their caliber (if not these players) BC may say the heck with this and leave.
You have to wonder if BC would want the team we fielded last night going into 09.
With his experience as a GM and as a talent guy I doubt it.
All that said BC has not been wowing us a manager for a few year now but look what they give him to work with each season.
Give the guy a k-butt rotation, corner OFs and fewer pacifier guys (developmental not wusses) in the line up and let him end his gig on a high note.
BC must feel like the red headed step child of the ML when he sees what kind of talent is going to other teams.
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
DOB, you forgot David Coverdale and Don Dokken :)
By cooper
August 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
I believe Liberty is on a 3-4 yr then sell the team game plan so I don’t see them going the Marlins or Indians route at all.
They need to get this franchise back into a winning big (NLCS/WS) mode.
With the pending sale of the Cubs on the horizon they would be foolish not to have a plan to get the Braves back in the playoffs sooner versus later.
They will drool over the Cubs valuation and look for ways to duplicate it in Atlanta (or at least they should)
If Liberty was looking to keep the team for 10 years then they would or could go the gut and chuck route.
Since that seems less likely I see them being very aggressive over the next 1-2 years to see if they can build a championship team.
Going really young and cheap will not get the ROI they likely want during the window of ownership that would appear to be shorter versus longer.
By Calvin Broadus
August 16, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Did Zimmerman ever come up with something like fo’ shizzle, my nizzle? Think not. Dylan had nuthin’ on Snoop.
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
DOB,
How about Bret Michaels?
He was a writer of lyrics that manly men teased their hair to in the late eighties.
By Music A-Fish-a-Nado
August 16, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Didn’t Steve Goodman write the perfect country song, for David Allen Coe?
By DAP
August 16, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
lew ok, i get ya. i dont think getting cameron and ibanez will keep us from getting pitchers, and will make us a better team than fielding anderson and blanco or kotsay. its just what i think.
whatever frank wren does, i hope he gives this team a chance in 2009. i dont want to see them concede this season so they can wait on guys to arrive.
By BravesFanInRockies
August 16, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
cooper,
Getting Halladay and Holliday sounds great (Holliday’s numbers are still inflated by playing in Coors, but he’s a fine hitter) but are you going to trade away the entire farm to get them?
You’re not going to land those guys with Schafer or JoJo or Chuck James. You’re talking Hanson, Heyward, Freeman and more to make a serious offer.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
ChopChop-=Thanks, Dude. As to the dysfunctional-I know about the dynamics, but making a movie of sessions with your shrink and selling it as rock and roll? Kind of lost me there. They came across as needing to strap on the Leotard and then Go out and Stone the Crows. I want hell raising guitars, not Dr. Freaking Phil-I desire to hear raw, primal ID blasted through 10,000 watts of Marshall amplification, not a bunch of touchy feely New Wave Pop Psychology or Existential Angst. Meat-not Tofu.
BravesFanInRockies-I wouldn’t blame it all on Bobby Cox. As far as I can see, the problem lies in starting pitching that can’t go much more than five innings on the best of days. When they only go 2 2/3 or 3 innings as has been the case WAY too often the last several years, the bullpen will get gassed, wasted, destroyed (choose your own adjective, adverb or whatever) and pitchers arms will fall off. The manager uses whomever he needs to to make it through the game (and the season) and I really don’t see that BC had any other choice than to utilize the pen as he has. Would you rather have Frenchy pitch?
Now we really haven’t had any disposable income, so to speak, for more years than we would like to consider and we have had prohibitive contracts that exacerbated the situation. This year there IS $$$$$ and if they are sensible, they will spend it to get the needed pitching. I’m in full realization that The House Wren has a massive job ahead of him, what with the cost of pitching and maybe not having trade pieces he might once have had and the lost of Hudson made his job maybe impossible, but if the pitching is not shored up, alleviating the strain on the bullpen, then history will continue to repeat itself no matter how many Adam Dunn’s, Mike Cameron’s or Barry Bonds’ (Oh LORD PLEASE, NO WAY) we bring in to provide power.
By N8
August 16, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
DOB
“Dylan Kight, yes, I overlooked Ryan Adams, even the second time around. And you’re right, he probably belongs on any top-20 list of songwriters in the genres I like. He’s outstanding.”
No doubt about it. Summer of 69 is a GREAT song. Uh….what’s that? Oh Sorry. I thought you typed BRYAN Adams.
Never mind.
By BravesFanInRockies
August 16, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Agreed. We need innings eaters, not odor eaters (thank you Dr. Scholl’s. I’ll be here all week).
My criticism of Bobby is based on the number of blowouts this year (wins and especially losses) when he ran Ohman or Boyer or Bennett out there — sometimes all of them — rather than the mopup guys, whoever they may have been.
Campillo is lucky he moved to the rotation, or he might be worn out by now as well.
There are times you have to ask the last couple of pitchers in the bullpen to take one for the team, and Bobby has rarely done that this year.
If you’re carrying seven or eight guys in the pen, why overwork three or four, particularly using them in games that aren’t close?
A few fewer appearances in those situations and who knows how much fresher our best relievers might be right now?
I don’t buy for a minute the notion that you can pitch guys every day if they just work an inning or less. Simply going into games, if only to face one hitter, takes its toll if you go out there too often.
There was poor bullpen management this season.
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
I agree, Lew.
I don’t know why Metallica did that crap. Of course, if I can accept a band having a documentary made of its psychological issues and not hate it forever, I guess that means I have progressed as a human being.
F*** it, though. I want to hear that Marshall noise kick my a* and kick my face.
After all, as Metallica once said in their song “Whiplash”:
“Now’s the time to let it rip, to let it f***’ loose. We’re gathered here to maim and kill ‘cuz this is what we choose.”
In addition, they should heed their own advice a verse later:
Hotel rooms and motorways
Life out here is raw
But we’ll never stop
We’ll never quit
Cuz we’re Metallica!
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
kotchman got the day off. he had the stomach bug that’s been going around…can’t hurt for him to have a day off to kinda clear his head either.
lineup: 1. Blanco CF, 2. Escobar SS, 3. Jones 3B, 4. McCann C, 5. Infante LF, 6. Norton 1B, 7. Johnson 2B, 8. Francoeur rf, 9. Hampton P.
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t blame it all on Bobby Cox. As far as I can see, the problem lies in starting pitching that can’t go much more than five innings on the best of days Lew
I agree with this. I think Bobby could have used Boyer less often, but when your bullpen has guys like Julian Tavarez, Vladimir Nunez, Francisley Bueno and “available but not really” Phil Stockman, I guess there really isn’t anyone else to turn to.
I think Peter Moylan’s injury was the most crucial injury this season (barring Huddy’s, of course), and it shows with Boyer pitching the 8th on a nightly basis when he should be pitching the 6th or 7th.
By Lew
August 16, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
ChopChop-Teenage angst has it’s place in society, I suppose, but let’s leave it to those weenie Grunge Rockers and Boy Bands. There’s no crying in Rock and Roll-at least not in the Heavier Versions, thereof.
By SNIPER-69
August 16, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
LEW, how are you doing. I hope you won’t hold the current state of the braves against me. It seems it’s time for the braves to rebuild. What are your thoughts for the division. Will it be the Mets, Marlins or phils. I think if Pedro steps up the Mets will take it. I must add that Minaya does a great job year after year picking up players off the scrap heap and getting good production from them. Tatis and Easley come to mind. He’s probably the best at that and it’s made a big difference this year.
By Random by Sports & Music Assemble People©
August 16, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
Well, well, well — DOB weighs in on Michael Phelps —
(Or should I call you ”Misteral Literal” for the duration of this exchange? Okay.)
Misteral Literal weighs in on Michael Phelps — but not to take up (one way or the other) the argument as to whether he is “the greatest (Olympic) athlete ever” — but only to ridicule various rhetorical devices employed in my argument against that ridiculous proposition.
”Did you refer to Phelps as “puny?”” No, I did not — I made the general concluding statement that “Any male Olympic gymnast is a better all-round athlete than any puny Olympic swimmer.” In that context, the term “puny” is a reference to a generic stereotype, kind of like “ignorant redneck” or “beetle-browed sportswriter”. We all know that not all rednecks are ignorant, nor all sportswriters beetle-browed, nor all swimmers puny.
”Really?” Yes, really.
”And the male gymnasts you put ahead of him on the athletic scale, aren’t they considerably smaller than that?” The question is whether Phelps is “the greatest (Olympic) athlete ever” — why would you even pretend that it’s a matter of size?
”just wondering why you called Phelps puny” — I didn’t — ”seems to show a complete lack of knowledge on the matter” — you nailed that one Misteral Literal — complete, COM-PLETE.
I have “a COMPLETE lack of knowledge on the matter” of Phelps’ size — I have zero idea how big he is, nor did I even consider it, since it had nothing to do with either the claim I was trying to rebut nor the point I was trying to make. (I repeat, ”COM-PLETE” — you got me there, Misteral Literal.)
”what the H does “hairless” have to do with anything?” You’re asking me what does “hairless” have to do with “swimmers”? I would have thought that even you would know that.
“You do understand most of them [swimmers] do that only for the bigger meets, right, to (literally) shave a few hundredths of a second off their times?” See there — you did know!!!
So why even ask?!? What was your point in asking? (My point was to employ another generic stereotypical pejorative, as in “effete, hairless swimmer”. And no, not all swimmers are effete, so don’t even bother to ask.)
”you also put gymnasts ahead of swimmers on this odd macho scale of athletics that you’ve apparently devised in that mind of yours”
All right, Misteral Literal — first off, why drag “macho” into the discussion? You do know, of course, that many athletes are women, and many women are athletes, right? (If you’d like, I’d be glad to expand my argument to include the position that any female Olympic gymnast is a better all-round athlete than any female Olympic swimmer. Happy, Pappy?)
Now as to any ”odd … scale of athletics ”, well — I hate to get literal on you, but I actually established no “scale“ at all. I simply said that Olympic gymnasts were better all-round athletes than Olympic swimmers (and, imo, the best all-round Olympic athletes). Is that a scale, like two points make a line? I don’t think so, and did not intend it to be, nor to be taken as one.
I also mentioned that all of the following were also better all-round athletes than swimmers: decathletes, cross-country skiers, and (in exaggerated jest) beach volleyballers. But I certainly did not attempt to rank them all against each other; hence, no scale, odd, or macho, or whatever — no scale.
“Most of us just watch the sports, without conjuring these images you’ve unfortunately put in our minds”
Me??? What did I do??? You said yourself that everybody already knows that swimmers are hairless, and ANYbody with a TV already knows that beach volleyballers are half-naked (at least, the ones that get the most airtime) — those images have already been “conjured“ by NBC.
”creepy post”
???????
(sigh; oh, well …)
I’m not creepy, you’re creepy. (And you can tell your ma I said so!)
Now —
would you like to address my actual comment? I’ll restate it simply below, stripped of any distracting distractions that might distract you:
Michael Phelps is not the greatest Olympic athlete of all time.
He may be the greatest Olympic swimmer of all time, but even that’s not a lock [because, to my understanding, he doesn’t compete in backstroke events; and then there’s the new technology of more buoyant suits; but on the other hand, the competition may be stiffer than ever — see, not a lock].
Just because swimmers have more opportunities to win medals than athletes in other sports does not make them better athletes when they do.
The best Olympic athlete is a male gymnast.
Any … Olympic gymnast is a better all-round athlete than any … Olympic swimmer [of the same gender]. As are decathletes and cross-country skiers.
Would you care to dispute any of the foregoing? Or would you prefer to pick apart this comment instead?
Who is the better all-round athlete — the best Olympic swimmer, or the best Olympic triathlete?
A simple question …
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Is Hampton going to be the Mike of last Sunday, or the Mike of two appearances back?
Maybe he will throw 7-8 innings, and hit for the cycle too.
Lots of good points going out and back today. It all revolves around pitching and defense. There just aren’t that many top of the rotation guys available this year, short of Sabathia. The others are older than dirt, or injury prone.
Like I was thinking last night, who will be the Jurrjens of last year, that will come relatively cheap. Someone just off the radar screen.
Any ideas on that one??
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
In the grand scheme of things, Michael Phelps will be all but forgotten in two years. If someone brings up “the swimmer who won all those metals in China”, someone else will say, yes, that was Mark Phelps! Or was it Mike Phelps? Or maybe Mark Spitz….
Not diss’ing his talent or athletic prowess, but can he turn around a 98 MPH fastball?
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
It doesn’t seem likely that the Braves will strike gold by trading for another young starting pitcher. Wren had two deals ready to go when he took over: the Jurrjens/Hernandez deal and the Ohman/Infante deal. He robbed those two teams blind, so don’t expect anyone to be looking to help Wren out this offseason.
So, it may come down to whether Wren is willing to pay a big price (in prospects or major league talent) to acquire a power bat or good starting pitcher through trade.
By It seems every team has a vat of goo
August 16, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Mister Tyler Walker, meet mister Blaine Boyer.
Give each other a nice gooey handshake.
By NewYawker
August 16, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Hey Glavine….. I hope you’re not to devastated about your elbow…
By NewYawker
August 16, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
Hey Glavine….. I hope you’re not to devastated about your elbow…
By NewYawker
August 16, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
Hey Glavine….. I hope you’re not to devastated about your elbow…
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
smoltz is doing color on peachtree tv tonight for the game. since i can’t hear it here in the press box, i’m leaving it to some of you guys who can get the game to tell me how he does! it’s joe and john. just saw him get thru the “open” ok….
By Jeff321
August 16, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Smoltz is doing the game tonight with Joe Simpson on PTV.
By Murphy
August 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Nice call-out to the fan from Michigan. Love it.
By Nick Esasky
August 16, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Hey everybody, I know a lot of you have given up on me. But for those of you that haven’t, and you’re tired of Kotchman hitting grounders to the right side, I think I’m finally ready to play…..oh….wait a minute.
I think I need to sit down for a while.
Never mind, I’ll get back to you on that.
By N8
August 16, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Do I smell a brawl??
By N8
August 16, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
On a side note, how frickin’ tall is that bat-boy??
Give that kid a glove and a bat and throw him out there. Can’t do any worse than the rest of the lineup.
Sure am glad that I get to to in tonight and witness Greg Norton’s (ahem) “ability” to play ball.
Might as well be Gerald Perry….oh wait…..he could hit. Might as well be Sid Bream….oh wait….he could play defense. Might as well be…uh……I’m sorry. I’ve drawn a blank. I can’t actually think of any first baseman in the past 25 years that have played for the Braves that are worse than Norton. Really? Norton? This guy makes Scott Thorman look like a HOF’r.
Baseball. Catch the “fever” (or any other illness you’d like to latch on to)!! I think I’m gonna have go on the DL with “flu-like” symptoms.
Yikes.
By ncscoots
August 16, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Work on the pitching, and all else will work itself out. Might I throw in “pitching and defense”.
Might want to ask the Padres how that “pitching, defense, and punch-and-judy” is working out. Ignore the offense at your peril.
Schafer basically stunk it up this season so he his going no where but to AA again come April 1 09.
At least now I know cooper has no interest in reading any of MY posts! Might want to try re-thinking that position, there, coop. This ain’t High Noon.
By Goo watch
August 16, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Do I smell a brawl??
No those are the rancid vats of goo stationed in each team’s bullpen.
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
.300…
What happened? :,(
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
N8 Got those “flu-like” symptoms myself. Not much fun.
On a side note, I could play first well enough to pass for an adequate major league firstbaseman, but my bat, well…. that’s another subject. Like I said, “flu-like” symptom.
By ncscoots
August 16, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
I think I’m gonna have go on the DL with “flu-like” symptoms.
nathan, I’m widely known as an optimistic guy, but even I know I can’t get THAT lucky!
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
scoots I never intended to say forget the offense, with my “pitching and defense” statement. BUT, I think with a little tweaking and luck, our offense could be respectable enough without a major overhaul. Gotta see what some of these kids have though, before going off to the free agent cafe.
You are right about our friend cooper. He obviously looks at a batting average, then determines that the player is having a lousy year.
For all he know, Hanson has just been middling in Mississippi. Gotta dig a little deeper coop. Schafer has actually been coming on lately.
I would love to see Schafer get a September call up, and then another venture into winter ball this year.
By Couch Tater
August 16, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
I think the PTV feed has the Flu.
By McTune ♫
August 16, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Brian McCann is a better country singer than he is a catcher.
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Walk away for 10 minutes, and we are ahead by 2. It might be time for me to turn off the MLB Audio…..
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I gotta think Schafer gets a call come September 1. You’re right about him, though. Looking at his .258 BA, one might think “golly, this guy sure sucks.” Well, considering his OBP (.365) and the fact that he was hitting very close to .200 a few weeks ago, I’d say he is coming on pretty strong.
Unless he absoluely stinks it up in a September call-up, I’d say he has a very good shot of starting next season.
By keylargo
August 16, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
BMac seems to think he is invisible at times.
By Couch Tater
August 16, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
McCann
Always makin’ the game worth watching!Ha Ha Ha.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
In the grand scheme of things, Michael Phelps will be all but forgotten in two yearsWayne In Utah
Huh? You mean like we’ve forgotten Mark Spitz? Dude, people who have remarkable performances in the Olympics are remembered by a lot more people, I’d dare say, than all but your superstar baseball players.
Hold on, hold on. Sure, all of us seamheads and ‘ball hacks remember a frightening number of ball players, from journeymen to Hall of Famers, and every single player from the teams we grew up pulling for. But I’d suggest that your average sports fan — one who likes other sports as much or more than baseball — who’s old to remember, does remember Nadia Comaneci, Carl Lewis, Bruce Jenner, Michael Johnson, Sugar Ray Leonard (in the Olympics) and plenty of U.S. gymnasts and swimmers who’ve won multiple gold medals.
And can’t most sports fans over the age of 35 tell you who Mark Spitz is? I think probably so, at least in vague, general terms — he was the great Olympic swimmer, etc. I’d say beating his record is going to secure a spot for Phelps in the memory banks for a whole lot of sports fans….
StingerSplash, yes, an oversight. I’d put the DBT songwriting trio in there (counting Isbell, even though no longer with the band). They’ve all written some of the toughest, most compelling and meaningful lyrics in rock in the past 10 years. And someone suggested Josh Ritter. Yes, another great one.
Conor Oberst, too, is awfully good, way beyond his years (like a young Ryan Adams, when he was in his early 20s writing the brilliant songs on Strangers Almanac and the other Whiskeytown albums)
By Jake
August 16, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
That’s the second time in 3 games that Jeff has had a balanced approach at the plate. Staying on the balls and driving them where they are pitched. Just the other day I looked at a game of him from last year and wandered how he had fallen off so bad. In no way am I saying he is out of his slump, but he could be showing signs of live in the last months of the season. Hopefully for the team’s sake he is finally coming around.
By Knee-Jerk Alert
August 16, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur has two hits tonight!
He was good on Thursday!
Sign him to a long-term deal before it’s too late!
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
DOB Thought I would get a reation out of you on that comment. While it is true that I have very little use for the olympics, I know more people are watching this than give a damn about the Atlanta Braves.
I used to love to get my mother-in-law’s goat by telling her the Olympics were just a bunch of rich kids playing meaningless sports.
Gotcha…
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Actually, I like the bobsled races in the Winter Olympics, if the truth were know. Don’t let that out….
By McFann :Ô:
August 16, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
That was hilarious! Timmy and Kotsay were the first to come over to give 3BMac the business!
Shame he got caught, but that was so funny!
Coach Tater—
You’re not kidding!
Keylargo—
What? You mean you saw him? Dang, he was goin’ so fast, I didn’t know he was there!
I’ve really enjoyed Smoltz tonight, BTW!
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
August 16, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Well, if the Giants hit one more Braves batter, Cox needs to send a message.
It’s nice to hear Smoltz in the broadcast booth, lots of knowledge from him and Joe Simpson.
Wayne in Utah, hey buddy, you are on a roll. Don’t quit now.
Micheal Phelps is only the greatest Olympian in history. Then when considering that he is just 23, it’s mind bending to put into context what he could accomplish now and in the future.
Francoeur looks like a totally different hitter with the toe tap. He is nailing the fastball again. Why did it take this long for him to make the adjustment?
Somebody just got beaned in the stands. Bring a glove and pay attention.
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
by my count that’s two extra-base hits in 19 games for jeff. …or two in three nights and a long drought before then….
By Chop Chop
August 16, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Coach,
Real men don’t wear gloves in the stands. Real men catch the ball with their bare hands or accept branded seams on their chests and foreheads with pride.
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
I am getting kudos from Coach. Not quite sure how to take that….
:-)
I took my glove to every game I went to as a kid, but not too many balls hit where we sat…
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
N8 Dude must have heard about your comments about him! You wanna slam KJ now… please!!
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Dave/Carroll Serious question for a change. Does Tommy G really think if he gets that surgery (if it is only a tendon), that the Braves will even want him next year?? Will they?? I gotta think the Braves are beyond that stage after this year.
By keylargo
August 16, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
McFann
It was Chipper’s fault. BMac didn’t want to embarrass Chipper by catching him coming around third, so he slowed way down. You don’t want to hurt the franchise players’ feelings you know?
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
August 16, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Real men get the boo birds when the ball bounces out of their hands and some smart dude with a glove gets cheered when he catches a line drive.
By McFann :Ô:
August 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Keylargo—
I think you’re correct on that one. Yeah, can’t hurt his feelings!
; )
Wayne—
My sister and I bring our gloves. We have NEVER had a ball hit near us. Francoeur threw one to a fan about five rows in front of us, but other than that, nothing.
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
they’re doing the wave. skip would not be pleased…
Wayne, i guess that depends on the price and who else the braves acquire this winter. there are a ton of ifs, but if glavine gets the elbow healthy and takes a big pay cut, maybe. but it would be hard for the braves to justify gambling on both smoltz and glavine again, both coming off surgery.
that’s my thinking anyway
By StingerSplash
August 16, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Not familiar with Conor Oberst. May have to check him out now, per your recommendation.
By Marc
August 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Conor Oberst is garbage.
By McFann :Ô:
August 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
.306!
That breaks the 0-4 with RSIP!
By Stats are Funny Things
August 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson is +3 at second base this season, according to the Fielding Bible. Simply put, that means Kelly Johnson’s defense has saved the Braves three runs above the absolute average defensive second baseman. That ranks him eighth in the majors.
Martin Prado, iin very limited sample size, is -5. That means Prado’s second base defense has allowed the opposing team to score five more runs than a league average defender at second.
A players’ defense is largely reputation-based. It’s why people like Derek Jeter continue to inexplicably be called good defenders.
And for those who still think of errors as something of note, please remember that Prado has three errors this season at second base in less than 1/4th the playing time as Johnson. Projected out, he’d have more 2B errors than KJ.
So does all of this mean Kelly Johnson is a real good defensive second baseman? No. It simply means that people here need to stop pretending Prado is a good defensive second baseman or that replacing KJ with Prado is a big defensive improvement or upgrade…’cause it’s not. Prado is a bad defender.
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
For cryin’ out loud…When is he gonna get another RBI??
: (
Oh well…That was some funny base running by Gotay.
First win in a week? Bring it!
(It’s also been a week since McCann got an RBI…)
By N8
August 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Hmmm. Kotchman sits and we score 11 runs.
Ouch.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
I’m a bit surprised that Smoltz is as smooth as he is, for his first game doing this. Doing a better job than about half the ex-player analysts do after years on the job….
Two other songwriters: Jimmy Webb and Kelly Joe Phelps.
By N8
August 16, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
To all the people that hate Joe Morgan (I’m not one of them), the SF broadcast just showed the clip of Morgan hitting the HR that knocked the Dodgers out of the post-season (and got us in), in 1982.
GREAT moment in ATLANTA Braves history. A close 5th behind Glavine’s game 6 gem in 95, Hank’s 715th, the worst to first in 91 and the Bream slide in 92.
I’ll never forget Bob Horner in the clubhouse holding up a beer as they all celebrated after watching the outcome of the Dodgers/Giants game.
Man did that footage look OLD. Oh yeah….it was 26 years ago.
Yikes. I’m old.
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Everybody who’s batted tonight has an RBI except Escobar and McCann…
By Jake
August 16, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Stats are funny things
They are funny things, funny in that they can be deceptive. Didn’t you learn in high school that sample size effects your margin of error. The larger your sample size (KJ in this case because he has more at bats) the smaller your margin for error. That means his stats reflect more accuratly what he has done. The smaller your sample size(Prado) the higher your margin for error. Meaning you can make the most mistakes in looking at statistics when you are looking at a smaller sample size. It’s the same adage as it has always been with bench players. They are not always the sharpest because they don’t get consistent playing time. That’s why managers like to start some of their bench players to keep them sharp because they get rusty.
By keylargo
August 16, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
N8
I’ll go out on a limb and bet you look better than Horner does now. LOL he was a slob at 23 and I bet he has not aged gracefully. I hope I never hear from him or his agent, Bucky Woy, again.
By McFann Ô
August 16, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
DOB re: Smoltz—
I agree! Smoltz has been great tonight!
Wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he did the rest of the PTV games with Joe.
Think I better split…
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
N8,
regarding your 9:54… don’t feel bad, i remember Joe Morgan as well as the ‘81 strike!!
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
August 16, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Josh Anderson, 3 for 5 tonight with two more stolen bases. His hitting streak is now at 23 games and he is 40 for 45 in the stolen base department.
By cabravesfan
August 16, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Man I could listen to Smoltzie talk pitching forever…I agree with McFann- I would love to hear him do more games this year
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Jake this is exactly why we shouldn’t anoint Martin as the new second baseman after 95 AB when 6 seasons worth of minor league data says that Kelly is better.
By N Nine
August 16, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Frenchy???????
I’m catching flu-like symptoms looking at his stats!
Nice we have Carroll and DOB tonight! must be special game..Should have this more often!
The Chipper Jones update:
Holliday 0-2 .343
Pujols Huge 3-4 w/ 2HR’s .349
Chipper 1-3 .365
Well we been seeing 1-hit games too much lately..Pujols is a monster injured or not.
Great win tonight..Glavine back? better be a HUGE hometown discount! I am so glad Yunel is feeling better. Needed that good news!
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Welcome to MLB, Mr. Nunez!
By ssiscribe
August 16, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I’m waiting on Phelps to get in the pool — haven’t watched much of the Olympics, but want to see him go for No. 8 tonight. Yet, I keep flipping over to the Braves because, like DOB mentioned, I’m really impressed with Smoltz and how good he sounds behind the mike.
It’s one thing to hear somebody talk for a few minutes before or after a game, or for an inning or two. But doing it over nine innings and sounding comfortable and smooth is not easy. I watch a lot of ball on Extra Innings, and Smoltz is as good as just about any ex-ballplayer I’ve heard this season. Sounds like he’s been doing color for a couple of years. Very impressive.
Game’s nearly over; gotta go write. Selah, good people.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By Jeff321
August 16, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
I barely remember the 81 strike. Didn’t Ted Turner put minor league and Cuban ball on during that time?? I thought it was quite strange when the fans threw fouls and homers back on the field.
By N8
August 16, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
DOB
I’ve got a question for you. If all of us bloggers were given tickets to a Braves game, and allowed to us “complimentary” lap-tops that the Braves provided, and we were all put in the same section…..
Would we all sit around and talk with each other, or would we be more “comfortable” in our element by simply blogging at the game?
I can see it now. We’d all have those sticker name tags (like at a company picnic), that says:
HELLO, My name is: (enter name)
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, I agree, Smoltz did a very nice job tonight.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Wish I could hear smoltzie! No PTV here!!
By bravesfaninmetsland
August 16, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
DOB:
This is way off topic, but up here in the NY area, with the Mike and the mad Dog program coming to an end yesterday, some people, and not just out of the loop nobodies some newspaper journalist guys, have mentioned Boog as a good fit to move inhere and do some talk radio and do some Yankee radio work.
Please tell me this isn’t gonna happen. I love listening to Boog with the Braves and don’t wanna hear him get dismissed daily by Francessa on 660
By Robert S
August 16, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Jeff321, the thing I remember about the ‘81 strike was that the TBS crew headed off to Richmond and broadcast a few Richmond Braves games during the strike. That was a bit surreal.
By N8
August 16, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Obviously with the game on Peach Tree (or whatever the hell it’s called), I don’t have the privilege of listening to Smoltz.
But every time he’s been on Jim Rome or the Dan Patrick show, he is ridiculously smooth with his conversation he holds.
I could easily see him sliding into one of those roles on Baseball Tonight (I wonder how many would tune in THEN, if Smoltz was on ESPN every night?), or one of those gigs.
I’m bummed I didn’t get a chance to listen to him.
By jerry
August 16, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Just as many of you have said in previous blogs, the Braves are loaded with AAAA players. They faced a AAA pitcher tonight, and promptly pasted him, but a win is a win. They all look the same in the standings.
By jerry
August 16, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Just as many of you have said in previous blogs, the Braves are loaded with AAAA players. They faced a AAA pitcher tonight, and promptly pasted him, but a win is a win. They all look the same in the standings.
By StingerSplash
August 16, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
I remember the 81 strike. Saw a lot of the Richmond Braves on TBS (OK, maybe not a lot, but some). Saw the Expos and Red Sox at Fenway in August! The MLB teams each got a warmup game or two once the strike was over. Joe Rudi hit into the net above the Green Monster just as I was walking down Lansdowne Street on the other side.
By Deep Throat
August 16, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
No offense to Josh Anderson, but I’m not sure I want him AND Blanco both getting everyday starting outfield jobs. The outfield is already punchless and homerun powerless enough (I think the worst in the NL…or right at it) as it is.
Blanco or Anderson in center, the other as the fourth outfielder and a REAL left fielder like Burrell or Dunn is something I could get behind. The Braves have a ton of cash for potential free agents; please fix left field and get a real power-hitting outfielder for that spot.
I’d say ditch Francoeur too, but I’ve accepted reality that the Braves want to keep him around and will.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Jeff
Yes, ole’ Ted treated us to Richmond Braves Baseball!
Phelps about to go in… U.S. women won a silver!!
By Robert S
August 16, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan and DOB, Smoltzie is just one of those guys who could take up anything and be really good at it in short order. Having said that, I always felt he’d make a good broadcaster (always liked his resonant voice), and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him in the booth on a regular basis after he hangs ‘em up. Gotta buy some time while he’s waiting to turn 50 so he can join the Champions Tour! And I wouldn’t put that past him, either.
By Couch Tater
August 16, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
I think Smoltz has a future as an announcer. In honor of the women who ran the olympic marathon, I’m going to jog from the clubhouse to the golf cart in the morning.
By southbeachdietfreak
August 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Aussie got the Bronze in swimming, but she gets the gold in looks!
By Random by Shingo by SMAP©
August 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Coach: “Micheal Phelps is only the greatest Olympian in history.”
Hey, Coach — I might have misunderstood you from the other day (and here) — if so, you’ve got my apologies.
But are you saying that Phelps is the greatest Olympic athlete, athletically speaking?
Or are you referring to something else like glamor, or fame, or popularity, or some kind of Olympian Platonic Ideal, or something.
‘Cause I really don’t think swimmers in general are better athletes than gymnasts, triathletes, cross-country skiers, pentathletes, decathletes or synchronized swimmers. (JK on that last.)
Is that what you’re saying?
By Tomas
August 16, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Great game today. Franceour had a 4 for 5 night, Hampton had a quality start, and the braves won. John Smoltz did a great job, I hope he can do all the weekend games for the rest of the year.
What I would do in Wren’s shoes surrounding Glavine and Smoltz next year, is invite them to spring training as non-roster invites, prove they can pitch, and sign them to one year deals, with huge paycuts.
By Jake
August 16, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
And Yes Steve to quote our first time announcer tonight John Smoltz. Minor League stats aren’t everything and they don’t tell you everything about a player. But what does he know, he’s just been in and around the game for what, twenty some years. I mean Brian McCann never cracked .300 in the minors so of course according to you and your reliance on minor league stats he should have had no chance of hitting .300. I mean Kelly Johnson is so much better than Mac based on minor league stats.
By the way, who said I thought that Prado should get the job straight out. I just want to see what he can do. Seasons over, this is when most teams who are out of it like the Giants let younger players play so they can show them what they can do. An audition in essence.
By keylargo
August 16, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
Those of you who wondered why the animosity towards Horner and Woy is still there should read this.
An agent’s defamation-of-character lawsuit filed in 1979 against Ted Turner, the owner of the Braves, is going to court this week in Atlanta. The plaintiff is Bucky Woy, who says that Turner caused ”irreparable damage” to his reputation by declaring that Woy was ”guilty of manslaughter” in the death of Bill Lucas, the Braves’ general manager.
Lucas, who died of a massive brain hemorrhage and cardiac arrest in May 1979, had been involved in protracted and bitter contract negotiations involving the third baseman Bob Horner, one of Woy’s clients. The agent, who is seeking $17 million in damages, also contends that Turner sought to interfere in a business relationship by suggesting to Horner that the player discharge the agent. Turner has refused to comment on the suit.
Maybe if you newbies could research this article and Horners’ going to Japan and in general being a egotistical jackazz from the moment he was a Brave.
I remember it clearly and maybe it’s one of the reasons why I despise Scott Boras to this day.
By Steve from OH
August 16, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Jake, minor league stats don’t tell us everything but they provide a generally large sample size with which to compare young players with relatively little major league experience.
Yes, B-Mac’s minor league numbers aren’t indicative of his current success, but since he has posted a large number of plate appearances in the majors those numbers are essentially useless, at this point. Until Prado posts a larger number of major league plate appearances, minor league numbers will give us our best approximation of his major league ability.
By Random by Shingo by SMAP©
August 16, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
TheCutMan: “I truly am honored to be in the glare of such omnipotent intelligence as yours, Sir. The depth of your intellect to not include the term ‘cutman’ and not have any idea where, in the world of sports, such a vocation could exist has to explain the wonder of your existence, does it not? … The hebetudinous and inimical definitions you advanced for “Cutman” without doubt speak to your advanced education and wisdom. I salute you for this… . And for you, Sir, forever starts NOW, not tonight.”
Ah, shucks — using a few 4-letter words to poke fun at a soft and sappy sob sister isn’t all THAT intellectual (unless, of course, you refer to it as “hebetudinous”, which of course, I didn’t — you did).
But thanks anyway.
And today is the first day of the rest of YOUR life, Little Missy.
By Jake
August 16, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Steve that’s all I’ve been saying all along. I’ve never said Prado was a better player than KJ. You can read any of my earlier post, i’ve said just that. They can not be fully compared because Prado does lack the major league at bats. I’m simply lobbying for him to get the at bats so the comparison can be made. Till then you’re right all we have is minor league stats, but that can never be the end all when deciding whether a player is good enough to play at the major league level. Some people get better when they get to the majors and some get worse. You never know.
By Jeff321
August 16, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
I think Smoltz did a good job. And believe he said something about 100% not wanting to be a manager..
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
That was pretty incredible to watch — Phelps’ eighth gold medal, that is.
But if you want to watch the single best one-race performance of the Olympics, watch the 100 coming up. I won’t give it away (it’s already happened, a few hours ago), but you probably won’t be surprised if you saw the Jamaican, Usain Bolt, just cruise to a 9.85 in the semis, practically jogging the last 20 meters. He’s unbelievable.
By Random by Masahiro by SMAP�
August 16, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
keylargo: “I remember it clearly and maybe it�s one of the reasons why I despise Scott Boras to this day.”
Because of something Bucky Woy did.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
Random: Don’t be such a dipsh!t. Everybody else got what keylargo was saying about despising agents who are egomaniacal jerks.
Bucky Woy, Scott Boras. Easy not to love these types of guys.
By Wayne in Utah
August 16, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Did anybody read the SI article on Tim Lincecum? I am not sure when it was written, but I read it a few weeks back in a doctor’s reception area. If you like personal interest stories on father/son relationships and success stories. Look it up.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
Un-freaking-believable. That race by Usain Bolt was beyond anything we’ve ever seen in the sprints, maybe even better than Michael Johnson’s 200 in Atlanta (and that track at what is now Turner Field was said to be perhaps the fastest track ever constructed).
Bolt was just ridiculously good. How is that even possible, to pull up and shut it down for the last 20 meters and run 9.69. Dude is an absolute horse, with that gallop when he hits full stride. How is anyone going to beat him for the forseeable future? Barring injury, I don’t think anyone will. Not as long as he stays healthy, and trains like he obviously has until now. He’s what, 21? Remarkable.
By David O'Brien
August 16, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this
Wayne, the Lincecum article was about a month ago. We discussed it here quite a bit. Great article (as usual) by Tom Verducci, with some very interesting points about mechanics, questioning the conventional wisdom, etc.
By Carroll Rogers
August 16, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
not to mention, wayne, people should read that lincecum story for an amazing read on breaking down pitching mechanics. verducci did a great job taking something very visual and making it understandable in words.
you guys aren’t the only one lobbying to have smoltz in the booth again. braves took notice of having him up there in a game that snapped their losing streak. bobby (not to mention frenchy) wants him back up there again tomorrow.
didn’t get much of a chance to talk to smoltz afterward, just passing through the clubhouse. but he was all smiles and had this little nugget for us: “i took all the credit for frenchy.”
By ssiscribe
August 17, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Bolt in the 100 was something to see. I was yelling at him those final 20 meters to run hard, and yet, he still finished with the world record. Absolutely incredible performance.
I’ve watched a lot of the Olympic coverage in the morning — benefit of working from home — but tonight really captivated me, for some reason. There’s nothing like the Olympics. Just a really, really cool two-week stretch.
Phelps is hugging his family now … awesome stuff. Really, really great moments. For all the hassle it caused a dozen years ago, I consider myself blessed to have written about the Olympics while it occupied residency in my hometown back in the summer of ‘96.
Now, to finish my story from tonight’s game and get to bed. Church, then golf, beckon in a few hours …
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By sportsnut4
August 17, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
http://www.total-e-sports.blogspot.com
By Braveheart
August 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
For some reason whenever I read Random’s posts, I do it in the voice of Stewie from The Family Guy.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
Dave and Carroll Sorry I missed the discussion around here on Tim L. The whole issue of stride and extending the stride right at what seemingly was the end of his stride, was incredible.
I also enjoyed the father-son relationship thing (being a father of three, I guess I gravitate towards those relationship stories.)
It is hard for a dad to let go, in many areas of his childrens’ lives.
Let’s hope Charlie M has a big afternoon against Tim “the machine” Lincecum.
DOB I must rely on you for my track and field news, since I have not turned on the tube in days. Is there any hinting of doping with any of these athletes in the Olympics? When you see or hear of these incredible feats, it sure makes me wonder. Not trying to be negative, but in the past 10 years, this is where I am left to ponder these issues.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Question to anybody who has an answer: Did we ever hear anything from this “super-duper new and improved MRI” that Rafael Soriano was supposed to be getting. This was a couple of weeks back, as I recall.
Is anybody saying anything about Soriano? Does this means we (the Braves) have been duped?
If I were paying a guy that much money, I think I would have a right to require him to have that elbow scoped (maybe that is going to far, but how many millions are we paying him for 08 and 09) to see what in the heck is wrong in there.
I think it is probably tendonitis, and he is just a whiny b!tch. Just my thoughts. I have had tendonitis in both elbows at differing times, and it can be a pain in the azz.
Inquiring minds want to know….
By BA
August 17, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Lew’s thing from earlier about the Cubs/Phillies games has my head in a knot. What a scre- er, bizarre season. It makes me sick to think of all the losses in those two series.
By Braves outfielder Jeff Francoeur
August 17, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
well i finally broke out
it wasn’t smoltzy
it was ugabrave
now that he’s got my back, the ball looks as big as a melon
alright
By StingerSplash
August 17, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
9.69 in the 100. Holy cornelia! I never thought anyone would go below 9.90, and Bolt has thundered right past that.
By Interested Observer
August 17, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
I wonder if that Bolt guy can bunt??
By Chop Chop
August 17, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
BA,
Not only are the Braves are 2-16 against the Cubs and Phils; they’re also 1-3 against the Cards and 3-6 against the Brewers.
That’s a 6-25 record, but let’s be positive here and thrown in that nice and shiny 7-2 record against the Mets.
That gives the Braves a 13-27 record against the top five teams in the NL this year. We might wanna improve on that in 2009.
By Random by Masahiro by SMAP©
August 17, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah: “Don’t be such a dipsh!t. Everybody else got what keylargo was saying about despising agents who are egomaniacal jerks.”
Yeah, right — shoot ‘em all and let Dog separate them, right?
Y.A.I.
keylargo: Those of you who wondered why the animosity towards Horner and Woy is still there should read this.
An agent’s defamation-of-character lawsuit filed in 1979 against Ted Turner, the owner of the Braves, is going to court this week in Atlanta. The plaintiff is Bucky Woy, who says that Turner caused ”irreparable damage” to his reputation by declaring that Woy was ”guilty of manslaughter” in the death of Bill Lucas, the Braves’ general manager.
Lucas, who died of a massive brain hemorrhage and cardiac arrest in May 1979, had been involved in protracted and bitter contract negotiations involving the third baseman Bob Horner, one of Woy’s clients. The agent, who is seeking $17 million in damages, also contends that Turner sought to interfere in a business relationship by suggesting to Horner that the player discharge the agent. Turner has refused to comment on the suit.
Maybe if you newbies could research this article and Horners’ going to Japan and in general being a egotistical jackazz from the moment he was a Brave.
I remember it clearly and maybe it’s one of the reasons why I despise Scott Boras to this day.
Because of something Bucky Woy did.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
gotta be uga channeling to JF
By David O'Brien
August 17, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
Wayne, you’ve missed a few things in recent weeks, haven’t you?
No secret at all on the Soriano MRI. He had a dye-injection MRI at Dr. Andrews’ clinic. Showed no ligament damage. Andrews recommended that if pain persisted when he began throwing again, he should get an exploratory orthroscopic procedure done to see if there’s nerve damage, then nerve transposition surgery (probably at same time) if there is damage.
This was all reported, my friend. Gotta keep up if you’re gonna follow a team through the long season. But we’ll excuse you. I can understand how it’s been easy to stray from this squad in recent weeks. understand.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
Chop Who was that outfielder Charlie Finley of the A’s had back in the 70’s who was fast as lightning. He was used primarily as a DR (designated pinch-runner). They couldn’t teach how to steal first though.
By THB
August 17, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
We’ve been looking for the next Jurrjens. That’s a little unfair, but I’ve got someone to watch for. Jaime Garcia of the Cardinals, turned 22 in July, currently in their pen. He’s done well in his time in the bigs, 1-1, 2.77 ERA in 7 appearances, 1 start. His season in the minors: 7-6, 3.65 ERA, 106 IP, 100 K, 42 BB, 1.82 GO/AO. In other words, a lot of K’s and groundouts as a young lefty. The Cardinals need a SS and 2B badly. Maybe we could offer them KJ and get another prospect in return. Maybe a lower prospect, like we got in Gorkys.
One prospect that we vastly underestimate here is Tyler Flowers. Not sure why he hasn’t been promoted to AA. He’ll come to spring training and I hope he does well so that he can possibly take over for Kotchman in ‘10. His season so far:
.290 AVG, 110 H, 27 2B, 16 HR, 80 RBI, 90 BB, 90 K, .430 OBP, .493 SLG, 923 OPS.
He hits righties almost as well as lefties (.307 versus .285 against righties), boasting an OBP over .400 against both. He’s a legitimate prospect. I haven’t found a true flaw in him except that he’s a big catcher.
By THB
August 17, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
Oops, Garcia’s GO/AO is actually 2.07 in the minors this year. It’s 1.82 in the majors this year.
To agree with scoots, Schafer is actually having a solid year. He hit a little wall but his full line is: .263 AVG, .367 OBP. 7 HR, 17 2B, 43 RBI, 41 BB, 76 K, 9 SB. In 50 less games, he is 5th on the team in RBIs, 4th in HR, 4th in 2B, while being 7th in AB (60 AB less than #6). He’s posting good extra base hits along with good average, speed, and amazing defense. It’s safe to say he’s still a top prospect and hopefully a September callup.
By hydee
August 17, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Bobby could have used Boyer less often, but when your bullpen has guys like Julian Tavarez, Vladimir Nunez, Francisley Bueno and “available but not really” Phil Stockman, I guess there really isn’t anyone else to turn to.
Do you actually watch the games? Julian has been doing a good job for you guys. On the other hand, Mike Gonzalez has to get over his closer mentality and contribute some innings for your team. It doesn’t look like there will be a ton of save situations and there are guys getting pretty worn out pitching day after day after day while he waits for a situation he can get “up” for. I know Atlanta fans adore him and he is a great saver no doubt, but he really should be able to come into non-save situations and get some outs, because that is what your team truly needs right now.
By Chop Chop
August 17, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
I’m not old enough to remember, but I looked it up for you, Wayne.
The “designated runner” was Herb Washington. He stole 29 bases, but was caught 18 times.
Not exactly one of Charlie O.’s better ideas.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
OK, Random, so you can copy and paste. Are you trying to make a point. I still say if you don’t see keylargo’s point, you might want to get onto an easier blog.
About an easier blog, sorry Dave about missing the Soriano report (and the Lincecum talk).
To put it in baseball terms, “been dealing with a lot of sh!t here”
Love the blog, but sometimes life gets in the way…..
I do appreciate the update, and sorry about the earlier digs on the Olympics. Sometimes I don’t know when to stop turning the knife, after I have slipped it in the back.
By Krob
August 17, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
if im frank wren, this is what i would do this offseason
trade kelly johnson give the job to infante. resign mark kotsay, but only as the FOURTH outfielder. find a leadoff hitter by free agency or a trade. blanco is doing ok but he is a singles hitter and has no power at all. his obp is below 400. signing someone like cc,sheets, or dunn would grab headlines, but thats not the only way to retool the roster. I think the trade route is the way to go. he did get jj and infante for the overrated renteria and we could get similar for escobar. he sure is cocky for a guy who has been average since april. call about huston street. if you decide to trade jeff francouer, you better get a young stud starter for him because he WILL return to form next year. please dont overspend just to sign someone. stick to the plan and everything will be ok
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this
One thing that scares/concerns me a bit about going into 2009. Our closer situation. Everybody is saying the right things about needing 2 starters and an outfield thumper.
Remember last winter, when we thought we had the rotation covered. How many was it, 8 deep???
Now, we have three guys who have spent significant time on the shelf the past 2 years, and I think we are counting on at least one of them coming through for us next year. Gonzo/Soriano/Smoltz are all huge question marks. Gonzo probably the most sound at this point.
We could be in for some long 9th innings if these guys do not come around. We really could use at least two of those guys next year.
I hope we can use some of our cash to hang onto Kotsay (roving OF/1B) and Ohman next year. Also, I am hoping that Matty Diaz comes back to his old self next year. Enough of that full time starters stuff, he is exceptional coming off the bench. Hope he returns to form.
By Wayne in Utah
August 17, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this
Krob (what does that mean, btw)
I like some of your ideas, especially about spending just to spend. If we could truly get a CC Sabathia for 20 mil for 5 years, I would probably go for it. BUT, he is the ONLY one I would give that kind of contract to. But, I think he will go for more, and to a bigger market team. (NYY)
There is a lot to like about Escobar. I love his enthusiasm, his rocket arm, and his gap potential. Would love to see more maturity and poise, but maybe that comes with experience.
He is our best trade chip. That being said, I would only let him go for a young arm with 1/2 slot potential, and young enough (or signed, read here Halladay/Peavy/Oswalt) to control for years to come. Cain and Marcum come to mind.
The one thing you state that I am torn on is Infante. He has played well enough to get a shot at starting. With our weak bat in the OF (Blanco/Anderson), we don’t want Infante in left, which leaves second as the only other real option.
Personally, I have my doubts about his ability to maintain this production on a daily basis (Matt Diaz). I hope I am wrong.
If Infante could pull it off, that would leave KJ for trade bait, corner utility or left field. He would need to step it up to be able to stay in the lineup in left.
I think next year might be Schafer and Lillibridge’s years. Don’t know why, but I have a soft spot in my hear for those baby faced young baseball players.
Another player who might be a real find is Casey Blake. He can play the corners, and is a FA this winter. Made 6 million this year.
Gonna be interesting, as they always are.
Anybody think we should give Richie Sexson an invite for a September tryout? Would Bobby be just the guy to coak him back to his heyday?
By keylargo
August 17, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it
Thank you Wayne in Utah for being intelligent enough to see what I was saying about the relationship between Bucky Woy and Scott Boras. You also might note that Bucky Woy is not on the scene anymore. Same thing needs to happen to Mr. Boras.
Ted Turner hated what Woy was and stood for so much he publicly accused him of killing the Braves GM Bill Lucas, who died of a heart attack at about 50, while attempting to negotiate with Woy.
If you can’t see the correlation between the two agents with their attempts to tear apart clubs with ludicrous salary demands, you are blind.
By keylargo
August 17, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this
Just one last note about Bill Lucas. He was 43 when he suffered his fatal heart attack.
By Somebody please shoot me.
August 17, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this
he idea of trading Escobar:
DUMB AS A BOX OF ROCKS.
THREE FEET THICK BETWEEN THE EARS.
MAINLINED ON CRACK.
THE RESULT OF BINGING ON COKE AND JACK.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ZOO APES ARE GIVEN COMPUTERS.
INBRED MORMONS CONFUSING BASEBALL WITH PING PONG.
ALL OF THE ABOVE.
Somebody call the paddy wagon, juice up the needle, we got ourselves a new candidate for the funny farm.
By Dumbest Post of the Year Nominee
August 17, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this
“The Cardinals need a SS and 2B badly. Maybe we could offer them KJ and get another prospect in return. Maybe a lower prospect, like we got in Gorkys.”
Kelly Johnson for a low-level prospect? Even if you’re in the “trade Kelly” camp, this is some big-time stupidity.
If I’m Wren, I don’t get fooled by Infante. He’s WAY over his head right now. He is not a .300 hitter of a .350 OBP guy…just look at his career numbers.
Braves’ Offseason Checklist for Wren:
Sign Dunn or Burrell
Sign Mike Gonzalez to two year deal
Acquire a legit #1 starter (trade or free agency)
And that is it. Teams don’t change much year by year (the “sell all” Marlins years being the exception). And I don’t think Wren is going to just trade everyone like the reactionarys here want. The 1-3’s I listed…well really only #1 and #3 (#2 is just something I would like to see) would have this team as a playoff contender for 2009. The Braves supposedly have around 40 million to play with…let’s make it happen on LF and a #1 starter.
By Oz
August 17, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this
The writing is on the wall for Glav. 2-4 5.54 ERA. The same numbers as his first year. If that’s not a baseball bookend, I don’t know what is…I met Chuck Brodsky (The Poet Laureate of Baseball) this past March during that rain delay in Clearwater. We talked for over an hour mainly about baseball and hockey. He’s a big Philly fan and a really cool guy. Look for his new live release “Two Sets.”
By Random by Masahiro by SMAP©
August 17, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah: “OK, Random, so you can copy and paste. Are you trying to make a point.”
You just don’t get it, do you?
Wayne in Utah: “Don’t be such a dipsh!t. Everybody else got what keylargo was saying about despising agents who are egomaniacal jerks.”
This is what you’re “defending”:
keylargo: “I remember it clearly [Bucky Woy being some kind of jerk or other] and maybe it’s one of the reasons why I despise Scott Boras to this day.”
Look, buddy, it’s totally legit to like/dislike somebody because of their own words or actions or whatever.
But to like/dislike someone because he’s supposedly “of a certain type”?!?!?
Well, to overstate only slightly, that road leads to Auschwitz and the lynching tree.
If you don’t get that, there’s probably nothing more I can say to convince you.
Wayne in Utah: “Bucky Woy, Scott Boras. Easy not to love these types of guys.”
Well, there’s nothing more I can say now, is there?
Go in blissful ignorance, my friend. I won’t bring it up again.
By Oz
August 17, 2008 7:25 AM | Link to this
…and then listen…
By Random by Masahiro by SMAP©
August 17, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this
keylargo: “Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it … Thank you Wayne in Utah for being intelligent enough to see what I was saying about the relationship between Bucky Woy and Scott Boras. You also might note that Bucky Woy is not on the scene anymore. Same thing needs to happen to Mr. Boras… . Ted Turner hated what Woy was and stood for so much he publicly accused him of killing the Braves GM Bill Lucas, who died of a heart attack at about 50, while attempting to negotiate with Woy… . If you can’t see the correlation between the two agents with their attempts to tear apart clubs with ludicrous salary demands, you are blind.”
If you want to say something to me, say it to me. Coward.
Here — this applies to you too, then.
Idiot.
PS “intelligent enough to see what I was saying about the relationship between Bucky Woy and Scott Boras.”
You do realize that you didn’t say one damned word “about the relationship between Bucky Woy and Scott Boras.” What relationship? The only relationship you’ve established is that you hate ‘em both.
Thanks so much for that “insight”.
By Ronald Millsaps
August 17, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this
The Braves need to do all they can to win each game the rest of the way.
They need to show as much perseverance as I as a fan am. After all, they ARE professionals.
Ironically, 99.9% of the world has written this season off for them, but just as this team has found a way to lose one-run game after another, the flip side of the coin still is an option, of course. If the Braves win today and tomorrow, and if the Pirates can beat the Mets today, wouldn’t it be ironic (yes, it would) that the Braves would have a chance to go to bed Thursday night only 6.5 games out of first?
No excuse for quitting. NO excuse.
It’d be nice if Chipper would regain his swing from earlier this season, the one that lasted throughout spring training and into about 25% of the season. The scary part about it all is that I don’t think he has been the Braves’ best player this year. When healthy, John Smoltz was virtually unhittable. When he faced Johan Santana in his first start of the year, not only did he outpitch him, but he CLEARLY outpitched him (not that Santana’s better than Smoltz…he’s not; the performance was huge, given his coming back from injury and doing so).
By the way, the fact that Turner Field was only about halfway soldout on the night he got his three thousandth strikeout is inexcusable, as was the performance that night by essentially everyone but him.
By Ronald Millsaps
August 17, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this
The Braves need to do all they can to win each game the rest of the way.
They need to show as much perseverance as I as a fan am. After all, they ARE professionals.
Ironically, 99.9% of the world has written this season off for them, but just as this team has found a way to lose one-run game after another, the flip side of the coin still is an option, of course. If the Braves win today and tomorrow, and if the Pirates can beat the Mets today, wouldn’t it be ironic (yes, it would) that the Braves would have a chance to go to bed Thursday night only 6.5 games out of first?
No excuse for quitting. NO excuse.
It’d be nice if Chipper would regain his swing from earlier this season, the one that lasted throughout spring training and into about 25% of the season. The scary part about it all is that I don’t think he has been the Braves’ best player this year. When healthy, John Smoltz was virtually unhittable. When he faced Johan Santana in his first start of the year, not only did he outpitch him, but he CLEARLY outpitched him (not that Santana’s better than Smoltz…he’s not; the performance was huge, given his coming back from injury and doing so).
By the way, the fact that Turner Field was only about halfway soldout on the night he got his three thousandth strikeout is inexcusable, as was the performance that night by essentially everyone but him.
By Random by Masahiro by SMAP©
August 17, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this
Braveheart — thanks. That’s a great show, and he’s one of the funniest characters.
Young Stewie or future Stewie? (At least you don’t hear Lois!)
(-8
By Lew
August 17, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
THB made a comment earlier about looking for the next Jurrjens and it got me to thinking about such a paragon and if it could actually happen two years in a row. Actually, I’m skeptical, just because of how good JJJ has been.
Consider this-Jair is 11-8 on the season, but he has four quality starts that he LOST, including the game the other night where he left trailing 2-1 after 7 strong innings pitched. How easily could that 11-8 have been 15-4? No way we’ll get another stud like this (first off, no Edgar to trade this time around). I’m not sure there are many of him even out there. No matter what trades The House Wren makes, it will be hard to beat his first deal.
Now if we can only keep his arm from falling off before his sophomore season.
By Stats Are Even Funnier In Small Sample Sizes
August 17, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
So does all of this mean Kelly Johnson is a real good defensive second baseman? No. It simply means that people here need to stop pretending Prado is a good defensive second baseman or that replacing KJ with Prado is a big defensive improvement or upgrade…’cause it’s not. Prado is a bad defenderStats Are Funny
with a name like that you should know that Prado’s sample size is way too small to mean much of anything.
By McFann :Ô:
August 17, 2008 11:08 AM |