Braves

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Johnson has better offensive stats than Escobar at this point. He is only going to continue to improve at 2B. He is not the problem and doesn’t need to be moved.

By Original Jon

August 7, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

First?

I am gonna speculate and say they make him the starting left fielder

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

go kelly johnson!

By Ron_Paul

August 7, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

I speculate SS, move Escobar to LA for Kemp (other players involved). Lillibridge takes over as the UT guy. Dodgers sign Texiera, Atl. maybe signs Furcal…then Infante plays 2B, move Kelly to?

Just my $.02

By Bobby's Cox

August 7, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

N NIne

Go to mlb.com.

choose player stats ——> sortable player stats——-> click fielding stats —-> click go ——-> choose 2nd base ——> click go.

It’ll sort out the players by games played. Count the number of players with a better PCT than .977 (KJ’s).

Looks like another player reached 60. That makes KJ 23rd out of 29. I was off by 1.

There you have it. Not sure if it will work. But here’s the link

By Saltywoody

August 7, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Omar’s the incumbent left-fielder next season.

Diaz has to prove he’s back to his pre-injury levels, Chipper and Yunel and Kelly are all entrenched in the infield, Blanco seems to have earned the rights to center, and not even the hand of God (or hitting .230 w/ no power) could move Frenchy from right.

Still think, though, that Infante’s way better as the utility guy. And you go out and get someone with power to play left, like an Adam Dunn, to balance out the fact that the rest of your lineup basically only hits for average.

To me, that’s the biggest problem with the Braves right now. They’re built as a small-ball team. But, in order to play small-ball, you’ve got to have stellar defense and you’ve got to be great at executing the fundamentals (bunting, hit and runs, stealing, etc.). And the Braves are neither of those things.

So, either they make a move in the off-season to add a power bat or two and solidify the rotation so they can win some games big OR you work like hell on all the fundamentals (Frenchy, I’m looking at you) and make darn sure that you know how to win the one-run games going forward.

Oddly enough, I think Infante’s the kind of guy that will execute those fundamentals consistently and will play solid defense. So, to contradict myself, I’d say he’s certainly earned a starting role…despite being better suited as a utility guy.

By Original Jon

August 7, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Ron_Paul. None of those suggestions make any sense. Why would you trade Escobar at this point in his career, this is just a sophomore slump he is in.

By Jamie in Richmond

August 7, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

I’d take Infante or Prado over KJ next year, although I think O’Brien makes a point in referencing whether or not Omar may be too valuable off the bench to lose as a weapon in that fashion should he become a starter. Something about Kelly…I don’t know, he’s just not somebody I can get excited about. I’ve heard the talk of moving him back to left, and even the chatter revolving around resigning Furcal (that was before his back trouble) and moving Kelly over to 1st (that was before the acquisition of Kotchman). At this point, I’d prefer to get my .280 average and dozen homers from someone else next year..hopefully in left, and hopefully more than a dozen homers. So if either Prado or Infante (or someone else) are the 2nd baseman next year, it won’t bother me one bit. Also, and this has zero to do with his skills…but am I the only person that has never seen an ounce of Kelly’s personality show through in the way of a smile, a tossed helmet, a laugh on the bench, a disputed call…anything? Maybe it adds towards my bias against him, but for me- it’s hard to get with an average player when I can’t get a gauage of any sort of personality there to make me more prone to like the guy. Not that his job is to show personality by any means…just thinking aloud…

By THE BEAR

August 7, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

The Braves may be happy to have Infante for third base if Chipper keeps pulling muscles and things. Infante certainly has earned the right to play somewhere. The man is a good baseball player. I still can’t understand how the Braves got him and Ohman for one relief pitcher they wanted to dump.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s cox n KJ BASHERS

With bobby’s bad anlysis , I decided to research MLB’s 2nd basemen. (bobby’s you CANT just say hes 23rd best)

he’s 24th in BA(.277) (counting everyone) (thats where ur facts end) by the way .277 is about average in baseball in BA

:he’s T-10th in HR ..one more T6th :he’s 10th in RBI :he’s 12th in total bases he’s 9th in walks :he’s 9th in SB :he’s 11th in hits :he’s 11th in RUNS scored

There are 30 teams..15th would be average OH you say DEFENSE:

he’s 10th in Fielding percentage :he’s 2nd in Errors with 11..but NINE players have 9 or 10 errors.

With all the numbers before us: WHERE IN THE WORLD do you get BELOW average…by a simple batting average?? PLEASE??? ..are you really gonna judge someone since he’s hitting .277 which is 24th and RATE him 23rd??? great Anlysis.

Enough said. I still dont see anyone with a good reasoning that kelly is below average!!

By flange1

August 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

From the last blog

Coach Tater - Paisley and Mason are MONSTERS. I am not a huge fan of “country” music out of Nashville today, but I can watch and listen to those guys tune up. They are incredible.

Saltywoody - The studio that you are going in might have an acoustic electric that you can use on your session. If not, you will want a guitar that sounds decent unplugged and has a pick-up. From my limited experiences in REAL studios, you should plug the guitar in and record from the pick up and also mike the guitar and mix those 2 signals.

In terms of the guitar, Laravees are great guitars that are somewhat underpriced. Same with Seagulls.

Epiphones are fine, but the acoustics don’t sound great unplugged (too much poly - finish) and don’t hold their value too well.

I would look for something used if you are not going to keep her long.

Guitar Center has a 30 money back guarantee also…Uhm…….

email me at flangebox@yahoo.com if you you have any other questions.

Flange1

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Somebody (Bobby’s Cox?) posted on the last blog about Kelly’s D outweighing his offense, etc. Kelly has a FRAR of 22. FRAR is “fielding runs above replacement,” which is like VORP but for fielding. The average FRAR for a 2B is 29. Kelly’s is 22. This means that an average fielder (at 2B) saves 29 runs with the glove; Kelly saves 22 (according to this metric). In order to see if Kelly produces more runs, we could look at VORP (I think). Unfortunately, I don’t subscribe to baseball prospectus so I can’t find VORP for Kelly.

Shaun, others

Could you please post a VORP # for Kelly? But by looking at his WARP (which is 4.5, meaning Kelly contributes 4.5 wins above what a replacement-level player would), I’d bet that it makes up for his below-average FRAR.

But I still think Kelly isn’t the problem. He’s just having his “sophomore slump” year. He’ll improve next year.

By Deep Throat

August 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Despite the fact that Escobar has done next to nothing for about five weeks now and Johnson has had a better season at the plate thus far, I bet Cox would prefer ditching Johnson over Escobar.

It’s the “stats vs. traditionalist” thing. Cox would probably like a lineup of eight Juan Pierres and a pitcher over a lineup of eight A-Rods and a pitcher. “Look at all those infield hits, stolen bases, sacrifice bunts and small ball” Cox would say.

Going into 2009 with Infante slated an everyday role over any of the current infielders (McCann, Kotchman, Johnson, Escobar, Chipper) or wanting Infante as the everyday left fielder is moronic. It’s based on Infante’s previous 75 at-bats at so when he has been hot and not on his career, where he has been an out-making below average player with a career OBP lower than that of Jeff Francoeur’s.

But there is no doubt in my mind personally that ol’ Cox is probably lobbying Wren to ditch someone for Infante to start everyday next season cause, as Joe Simpson says, “he’s a player”. Sigh.

By Jamie in Richmond

August 7, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Ron Paul , I’ve got to agree with Original John, I dont see why on earth Atl would move Esco. I’m the biggest Furcal fan in the world, but to move Esco before he’s developed in favor of a guy with pretty serious back issues is more than a gamble don’t you think? I do agree with you in as much as I’d love to have Matt Kemp in Atl, but I don’t see that happening unfortunately. I don’t see LA signing Tex either..especially if they’re thinking about re-signing Manny.

By Bobby's Cox

August 7, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Never said KJ was the problem. just said the braves have leverage at 2nd base, and many many holes beyond the position that need to be filled. That’s all.

It’s my $.02 that he’s expendable. I see you’re all a fan of the kid, that’s good, but i’m a fan of the team. With the free agents available next year, it looks like the braves will have to fill holes with trades, because the only players worth a damn of signing are SP, unless you want Dunn.

By Tomas

August 7, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

If Escobar keeps struggling like this, why not give the shorstop position to the hot Infante. I’d prefer to keep Kelly Johnson in the lineup no matter what, so it would either be left field(which it’s the big hole in the field) or shorstop(if Escobar can’t get out of this slump). What I would for the rest of this season is play Infante at shortstop against righties, and left field against lefties. That’s the advantage of having a super utility man. And if he continues to hit and play defense the way he has done so far, I’d give him the shorstop position for next season, and maybe use Escobar as a trade bait to get a power bat for the outfield.

By bravos2249

August 7, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Kelly isn’t that bad but we base that on errors. Numerous times he has bobbled ground balls or not caught them in his glove. Sometimes having to rush his throws or not giving the shortstop enough time to turn two.

I’ve seen Escobar bobble a ball or not field it right, but I can say there has been atleast one bobble, handcuff,bad hop, etc for Kelly a night.

By Deep Throat

August 7, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Something about Kelly…I don’t know, he’s just not somebody I can get excited about….but am I the only person that has never seen an ounce of Kelly’s personality show through in the way of a smile, a tossed helmet, a laugh on the bench, a disputed call…anything? Maybe it adds towards my bias against him, but for me- it’s hard to get with an average player when I can’t get a gauage of any sort of personality there to make me more prone to like the guy. Not that his job is to show personality by any means…just thinking aloud…

This is basically what I have long surmised was Kelly Johnson’s problem with many here; he doesn’t show that “heart”. I think it’s probably why Adam Dunn is seemingly disliked so much.

“Yeah well, KJ’s stats may be better than Escobar’s, but Escobar jumps up and down in the batter’s box, pounds his chest and flips his bat after a hit. Now that’s a player!”

Fine, let’s trade Johnson in the offseason and start Prado everyday. But when the all-star break rolls around and Prado is hitting .270/.320/.350 with one homerun, I hope the anti-KJ faction here will know they have no right to complain about it.

By nfieldr

August 7, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Sweet! No mlb.tv for me tonight! Since I live in Arizona’s TV coverage zone (go figure, I’m in Albuquerque, 6 hours away), I get to watch Sutton Jr. and Mark Grace on TV instead. Ok, so it’s not perfect, but at least it’s TV, not iMac.

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox:

Dunn has an OBP of .381, an OPS of .902 and an EqA of .302. Yeah, I think I’d take him. He’s out homered our entire outfield by himself!

By alex

August 7, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Move Omar to 2nd and Kelly to outfield (or trade him). Of course Kelly’s not going to say he wants to move positions. But the fact is, he came up an outfielder and is a so-so 2nd baseman.

That gives us Frenchy, Blanco, Diaz and Kelly in the outfield. Although I like all of those guys in different ways, that’s a serious power outage in the outfield. We need to sign or trade a power bat out there, using any four of those guys as bait. Even our beloved Frenchman.

By Tomas

August 7, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

By the way, although Frenchy hasn’t had a lot of hits in the Giant series, he had some nice at bats, and hitted the ball hard every time but run into bad luck. He also had a very good Cardinal series, but against the brewers he looked terrible.

By Wayne in Utah

August 7, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Since it is not my team, I can only say what I would do. Maybe right, maybe not.

Personally, I refocus our team around pitching and D. in doing so, I trade Escobar (not because he has been off a few months, but because he might be our best trading chip.). I either package him in a deal for a stud pitcher, or I make a play for a guy like Kemp as a thumper (although he is not really shown great power yet.

I let Lillibridge and Infante slug it out for SS. Loser either is the super utility guy, or also is considered for second base.

For second base, if we can’t make a decent play for Orlando Hudson, then I make it a free-for all between (Lilli-fante and Prado)

KJ is either traded for another piece, if his value is up, or is kept as a corner backup (1B, 3B, LF, RF) and lefty pinch hitter. (Diaz as my righty off the bench guy.)

With Chipper’s history of the past 3-4 years, we need someone who could play third. KJ started as a third baseman, has played left and second. He might not want to move, but until his bat come ALIVE, he is my corner utility man.

Whaddya think???

By BlueMoon

August 7, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

DOB-

So is the speculation that KJ moves in the offseason and Infante moves to second? Is that a consideration at this point? It would make sense with Prado more than likely able to fill the utility role.

By Wayne in Utah

August 7, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Let’s steer far clear of Furcal please.

By ncscoots

August 7, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Guys, those who dislike Kelly Johnson aren’t going to be convinced by any argument made by those who think otherwise. Just…not…gonna. He’s had an off-year (for him), and too many here do not now, nor will they ever, be able to see beyond last week’s line. I’m convinced that even making the argument anymore is just commanding the tide, and not worth the time or exasperation. Best to just ignore that conversation. With a snicker, if you like, but ignore it just the same, LOL.

By Deep Throat

August 7, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Thinking more about it, I wouldn’t mind so much starting Infante at second if Johnson’s move to the outfield is right field, and Francoeur goes, and the Braves get a real left fielder (Dunn or Burrell).

I’d actually like that a lot. Otherwise, leave Kelly Johnson alone and leave him at second base. He is a valuable player and offensive weapon at that position.

What I DO NOT LIKE WHATSOEVER is getting rid of Kelly Johnson and keeping Jeff Francoeur.

Finally, before I leave, I think a lot of this is just fodder for fans to talk about. Teams don’t really change all that much season to season. Over time, yes (compare 2004 Braves to today’s team), but not season-to-season. It’s a slow change usually. In fact, I think there is at least a 50-50 chance that Blanco, Francouer, McCann, Kotchman, Johnson, Escobar and Chipper are all back and starting again next season, with the only change a new left fielder.

By stamper

August 7, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Don’t get me wrong…I like Infante, but he is NOT an everyday player, at least not right now for us - (ie-think about DeRosa back in 2003 and 2004 for us, that didn’t really pan out)

What Atlanta needs (to me, anyway) is a real table setter. For me, that’s Furcal. We need somebody who’s gonna get on base and create havoc. (with all due respect to Blanco, he doesn’t fit that description. how many extra base hits and stolen bases does he have? not many, i think a total of 14 - not good. He’s a number 8 hitter or 4th outfielder).

furcal, is a guy who’ll steal lots of bases, get doubles, triples and hit about 10 HRs. I think we can sign him, as well. Probably have to move him over to 2nd, though… which is the only problematic thing i can think of. Ideally, i think Escobar makes a better SS than Furcal.

As for Johnson? Trade him or move him to LF. He’s a good 2nd baseman, but not great. He can hit, and thats what makes a mainstay in the lineup, not his defense. So move him or… well, move him. Case closed.

By Random by the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword

August 7, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

McFann: “Do you mean “10”? Because that’s the way it seems to figure.”

yeah

By AZ Braves Fan

August 7, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, Welcome to the Valley of the Sun. No this is not really that ‘dry’ heat — wrong time of year. But at least Chase has cold A/C….

Looks like I’ll be watching Campillo in person tomorrow night and just maybe will catch the mighty Chipper, huh? That will be great to see him back.

You’re right on about the hotel deals in Snobbsdale at this time of year — big values. Let me know if you need some restaurant recommendations. And with your interesting, eclectic taste in music, you might try Zia records — half a dozen locations or so around town.

Thanks for the hours of entertaining reading I’ve enjoyed this summer in your blog.

By Wayne in Utah

August 7, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Hey, I love KJ AND Escobar. I just love the team more. Also, if we don’t trade Escobar, then WHO gets us a seriously decent thumper or stud starter???

Frenchy is the golden child, but his value has probably dropped. KJ is in a similar situation, although as scoots has said, it is probably just a blip on the radar screen. BUT, he would not command the same type of return as Escobar.

I am not FOR trading Escobar, I am FOR improving the team. With Lilli-fante around, we can replace him.

Let’s KEEP our prized prospects, or at least most of them this time around.

Later.

(Would love to drive down to the Saturday game, but it is 715 miles from my home, and 1200 miles from where I am right now. Lot’s of ground to cover….)

By justin

August 7, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Just throwing this out there, but does it make sense to anybody else that maybe we keep having Kelly play second, move Infante to left or even center, move Kotsay or Blanco to right depending on where Infante is at, and let Francoeur go back to AA because he still is not hitting at all worth a damn.

He doesn’t even have good at bats. He has good strikes, and then the next pitch he’s flying open again. Pitiful.

By Jeff321

August 7, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

What is it with some of you people? Why ya always wanting to bring back ex-Braves?

Furcal was great when he actually played.. But, I do recall him hurting his shoulder and being out for quite a while one of those years. Anyway, that’s all we need, a guy coming off some kind of back surgery..

I like Kelly Johnson but think his defense at second base sucks. He often tries to throw the ball before having possession of it.

Escobar “skates” on his errors and KJ doesn’t because Escobar gets to a lot of stuff others only dream about.

By bravos2249

August 7, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

stamper

DeRosa was granted FA and since then barring injury has proven to be an average everday player, and he STILL is in utility mode. He plays 2nd,3rd,LF,and RF when needed to.

By Novice Ned

August 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Move Escobar to third, Infante at SS and trade Chipper for starting pitcher. There is very little reason to believe this team can compete for a playoff berth without trading Chipper next season. It’s time to rebuild and not just on the edges. No more trying to win with elderly or oft-injured pitchers. No more trading prospects for one-year rentals. Either Liberty has to step up with a $90M+ payroll so Wren can bring in some productive FAs or blow the thing up and start all over again. Keep Jurrjens, McCann and Escobar and take offers for everyone else.

By Robbie T

August 7, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson is not the problem.Sure his defense could stand to improve but,he is doing okay with the stick.The problem is injuries for one,lack of quality starting pitching other than Jurrjens and Campillo and relief pitching in the seventh and eighth inning’s.And no power production from the outfield.Changes have got to come in all 3 outfield positions.Blanco has done a credible job but,he needs to be given the geen light to run when he is on base.His arm appears to be weak for a centerfielder but okay for left field.We need power hitters in at least two of the outfield spots.Francoeur appears to be following Andruw Jones out of town.And Yunel Escobar is a good infielder but seems to have trouble keeping his head in the game.We need improved play from that position also.Kotchman will okay.Mental errors and fundamentals have to improve on this team.Missing cutoff men and dropping relay throws have got to stop.Being able to sacrifice bunt and moving runners over also needs to improve.Pitchers need to work on holding runners instead of allowing stolen bases in crucial late inning situations.If the players we have can’t do better on these things then,the team needs to get players who want to get the job done.Same thing for the coaches.Hustle and hard work lead to winning,loafing and lack of attention cause you to lose.Time to step it up.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

We’re in agreement again. The Dodgers need a SS and it may take a Yunel-caliber player to pry away a Kemp-caliber player.

As for Infante? If he’s going to be a starter, please God don’t let it be in left field. Just what we need. Another corner OF with no power.

(Meaning: Your new SS?)

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

*I am not FOR trading Escobar, I am FOR improving the team. With Lilli-fante around, we can replace him.

Let’s KEEP our prized prospects, or at least most of them this time around.* Wayne in UT

lillibridge or fante better than escobar? wow..im in loss of words at the moment. Escobar is the PRIZED prospect.

By Supes

August 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Say no to Furcal. His speed and stolen base numbers have gone down.

As far as Infante as an everyday player…I would hope not. Nothing against Omar, but for me he’s better served as a utility guy and Chipper Jones insurance. We all know something will happen next year, and Chipper will only play in 120 games (so the other 42, yip you got it).

I would applaud an effort on behalf of the Braves if they were to go after Adam Dunn in the off-season. He’s a FA, right? Not sure what kind of offers he’ll get, but he would solve the power problem of the OF position. Bad thing is he’s not a RH batter, and it seems to be Frank Wren maybe set on a LF who is a RH batter with power, and I’m not sure who out there will be a FA at the end of the year with more pop than Dunn.

I think Dunn would fit nicely in the 5 hole in a Braves lineup.

You could have Chipper at 3, BMac at 4 and Dunn at 5. The only problem is, both BMac and Dunn are LH sticks. It would work like magic against RH pitching however to have 3 big LH bats right there.

DOB

Any news on Kotsay, as far as probability of him clearning wavers an being traded this month? Surely someone out there could use a veteran outfielder to add to their contending ballclub?

I’m still awaiting the news that Jeff and Chuck have both been sent down and Braves have called up Brandon Jones and Josh Anderson and are now going with 12 pitchers.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 7, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned,

No.

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

I’m going to say something I said two months ago if people are now willing to part with Escobar. Trade him and whatever else it would take to get Hanley Ramirez. The Marlins signed him to a contract similar to BMac’s and he is a year younger than Escobar.

Ramirez is a superstar - NOW - and is about to become the fourth SS in MLB history to hit 30 HR’s and steal 30 bases in a season.

You ask why the Marlins would trade him? Two reasons. They could have a Cuban SS(Ramirez is Dominican) and if you think that doesn’t matter in Miami you are wrong. Two - the Marlins stadium deal is 50/50 at best and Uggla and a couple of others are going to want Ramirez type money. I just think it can be done.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned trade chipper? crazy ideas today. Glad were not GM’s

By Bobby's Cox

August 7, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

N Nine

I see you like to misinterpret my posts.

I didn’t say he was 23rd best. I said he was 23rd best defensively. And that, in my book, is below avg (defensively). You can’t look at errors. You have to look at percentages. I don’t know where you got he was 10th in fielding pct.

I did 2nd basemen with 60 games minimum. If you want to do ALL 2nd basement, then he’s 102 out of 134 defensively…pretty much the same as last year, like he said himself.

Steve From OH

Thanks for the FRAR, WARP…whatever stats. Never ever, ever, heard of those. Looks good though. Guess i’ll use that to shut myself up for now….till KJ’s next slump. Take a breath of fresh air.

By Bobby's Cox

August 7, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

I rather have KJ than injury prone Furcal back.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, I think you could be right, but I also think they could consider him for 2B or even CF. Probably depends on what happens this winter, what moves they can make to best fill other positions.

And I certainly am not suggesting they’ve already decided to start him next season. Could well be back in utility role. Just thought it was worth mentioning, Cox’s reaction.

By the way, I just talked to Omar downstairs a half-hour ago. Second base is his most comfortable position, and yes, he’d like to play every day. But he also said he likes doing what he’s doing, because he knows it’s good for his long-term job stability, being able to play multiple positions.

But yes, he clearly would like to start if given chance. (Who wouldn’t?)

He said his recent surge has coincided with getting the strength back in his hand. He had a lot of pain in the left hand/wrist early in season after returning from the broken bone, and said it radiated up to the elbow, too, because the arm was weak initially.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

I’m still awaiting the news that Jeff and Chuck have both been sent down and Braves have called up Brandon Jones and Josh Anderson and are now going with 12 pitchers supes

i think we getting diaz back soon.. cant have the whole brady bunch in the OF taking our roster. Blanco,diaz,anderson,francine,jones= what 16 homeruns? might as well throw in a few more like langerbomb or willie harris.. OF has been a mess for a while now.

By Saltywoody

August 7, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

I have a question or two.

For all of those calling for Kelly to move to the outfield and to trade Escobar…have you ever actually read the blog that precedes the comments section?

Or do you ever read the comments that come up in blue under the name David O’Brien, where it usually says some rewording of the following phrases: Kelly Johnson doesn’t want to move back to the outfield, and Escobar is a cornerstone of this franchise for years to come?

Because if you don’t? You should start. That would save a lot time and wasted speculation about things that absolutely will not happen.

By McFann :Ô:

August 7, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Why did Gatorade kill off the Cherry Rain flavor? I discover it at the end of May, and by the end of June, it’s gone…been gone for over a month, now…

It’s not fair! Just…not…fair…

By ccrider

August 7, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

To: N NINE AND ALL THE KELLY JOHNSON FANS, I started this discussion day before yesterday. DOB agreed that Kelly will have to hit better to make up for His poor defense to continue to secure his 2nd base position. I don’t know how many of you have played ball, but by the rush to site batting and fielding stats I would say not many. THIS ISN”T FANTASY BASEBALL! Mark Texeria is probably going to get $20 Mil. per season for 8 years. We , who have watched him realize, that all though he is an excellent defender and puts up GREAT STATS that would indicate he’s worth that money, HE ISN”T. Kelly is a decent hitter as long as he is in the 7th or 8th spot. But, have you not noticed that everytime he has been tried in the 2 hole, he has hit poorly ,bunted poorly and it has even affected his already poor defense. Speaking of defense! Stats don’t begin to tell the story of a players defense. Kelly’s range is very poor and often if he does get to the ball in the hole or behind 2nd he can’t handle it clean and thus it is not an out. If Kelly dives for the ball he is much slower than almost all middle infielders at getting off the ground, pivoting and making an accurate throw to 1st, 3rd or home. How many times have we seen over the last 1.5 years when a ball is hit to 3rd or short with a runner on first and a double play in order, Kelly will have a difficult time with the throw if its not right at him or even if it is he has trouble getting out of his glove. THESE KIND OF PLAYS DON”T SHOW UP IN STATS! But, they do show up in the faces of his teammates and particularly the pitcher that has worked hard to get that groundball! Most of you don’t value defense much, it’s not sexy and most of all it is not accurately measurable like most think hitting is. I think if you ask that starting pitcher or the other players that bust their butts for 7 or 8 innings to stay close or create a lead, just to see another easy play misplayed and squander all their work: THEY WILL TELL IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS EVERYONE’S ALMIGHTY HITTING!

By bravenate

August 7, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

During spring training all people was saying that Kelly was the next Chipper and now, after the disaster that this season has been for all entire braves nation, all people is suggesting to move him from the team.

All players have ups and downs, downs are like contagious infection and has been affecting all team.

I would like to see three additions for next year, two starters and a power bat at left field.

Can imagine a line up of:

1 Blanco CF

2 Escobar SS

3 Chipper 3B

4 Brian C

5 Burruel LF

6 Kotchman 1B

7 Frenchy RF

8 Kelly 2B

This line up can bat for average and power at the same time, and a player like Burruel can ignite this team with all the power he has shown in the present season and help Chipper and Brian to hold the weigth of the team on their backs, don’t load all the team in only one back as we did this year with Texeira, Frenchy just touch the botom this season and the only thing he can do the next is to float up.

And a pitching staf of:

J Peavy, B Sheets, J Jurgens, M Hampton, J Campillo

B Sheets could be aquired without lossing a player like Burruel, and a package of prospects could bring Peavy to Atlanta, Hampton (if keeps pitching as he has been)could stay as a Brave for the love of the game and to the franchise that support him during three injury years.

M Gonzalez will be the closer unless J Smolthz comes back, Boyer, Acosta, Moylan, Ohman and Beneth.

With the comeback of Moylan and a rejuvenated Acosta, Boby has not the need to play only one reliever every day, you can use Moylan, Acosta or Boyer as set up men, Ohman(resign during winter) the lefty specialist and Beneth your long reliever man.

O Infante super utility man

B Jones(if not traded) Outfielder backup

M Prado Infielder backup

C Samons C backup

Then we can expect a contender team, its just matter that every one in the team stays out of the injury list and be careful of this team.

There is no need to move one or two player off of their position or move them to aquire an injury prone player or to play an inexperienced player who has been hitting the ball well in the two weeks that has been playing as regular, remember Diaz or W Harris? players need to play the role they are supposed to play, continuity it’s the name of the game.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 7, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

keylargo,

Hanley’s an offensive monster all right. The bidding war that would ensue if the Fish made him available would make your head spin.

By McFann :Ô:

August 7, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Random—

OK, I thought so. Sorry…

By Plate Appearance

August 7, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

JEFF’S HITTING WOES

You’ve got to feel for Jeff.

You know he’s trying his hardest to get out of this slump.

Perhaps that’s his problem — that he’s trying too hard.

And because of his slump, perhaps he’s also having difficulty mentally seeing himself as the player many of us believe he yet can be and is — on an ability level.

It’s got to be difficult to mentally relax and have fun again when you’re in an elongated slump.

Perhaps the sport psychologist — who formerly helped John Smoltz — would be more helpful to Jeff right now than more instruction on hitting.

We’re pulling for you Jeff!

By Deep Throat

August 7, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson doesn’t want to move back to the outfield, and Escobar is a cornerstone of this franchise for years to come?

Does NO ONE see the problem with this? Johnson and Escobar are basically the same ages, with the same number of defensive errors but with Kelly Johnson having the better season stats offensively.

By Random by the The Mystick Babylon Krewe of Comus

August 7, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: “I’m convinced that even making the argument anymore is just commanding the tide”

Nice turn of phrase.

Wayne in Utah: “Personally, I refocus our team around pitching and D. in doing so, I trade Escobar (not because he has been off a few months, but because he might be our best trading chip.). I either package him in a deal for a stud pitcher, or I make a play for a guy like Kemp as a thumper (although he is not really shown great power yet.”

While he admittedly is actually not a pitcher per se, Escobar probably IS (imo) our best defensive player. I fail to see how trading him for “Thumper” will help our “D”.

Jamie in Richmond: “am I the only person that has never seen an ounce of Kelly’s personality show through in the way of a smile, a tossed helmet, a laugh on the bench, a disputed call…anything?”

Yes, you are — Kelly’s got a very sweet smile, and his eyes are always dancing.

You’ve just not been paying attention.

By Saltywoody

August 7, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Well, Infante certainly fits the mold as a guy you’d like to have at second…good contact hitter, some power, great defensive instincts, durable (arguably).

Still, I’d much rather have him playing every day by spelling CF, LF, 3B, SS, and 2b when needed, and have Kelly stay at the position he’s worked so hard (to much avail? I don’t know…) to learn.

Kelly’s upside at second base, if he can actually realize that, is way better than anything you can expect to get from Infante, though. If Kelly puts it together, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he hit 20-25 homers, 70-80 RBIs at least, and a .380 OBP, if not higher. Infante, at least I don’t think, will come close to those power/RBI numbers (unless, of course, he continues to bat cleanup, which was really weird to say the least).

So, I’d rather have Infante getting his reps by spelling everyone else…and if this year is any indication, there will be so much spelling it’ll be like frickin Hogwarts around the Ted. And then you have Kelly stick with where he’s comfortable now, hopefully make some strides defensively but, more importantly, providing much more offense than you could hope for from Infante.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

ccrider thx for the blog regarding KJ. I agree defense is important. I agree hes bit below average on defense. Im just not going to take some who says hes below avg OVERALL. hes just an average guy right now. Im in no way overly happy with his production..but we have bigger issues to worry about— like the brady bunch in OF.

By Supes

August 7, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

bravenate

if we can pass along your plan to Frank Wren, I’m all for it. Except I don’t want Pat Burrell, I would like to have Adam Dunn in LF.

keylargo

Escobar for El Nino? Where do I sign up. You must be crazy if you think the Fish will do a trade like that (unless they have another fire-sale soon, and they would demand more than just Yunel straight up for Ramirez)

N9

I wrote that in jest of course. I’m well aware that Jeff will not be sent back (although the numbers that DOB provides would justify it 100% to all of the Francine backers).

I know that Chuck will be gone when Glavine comes back (Thank God for that! Put Chuck out of his misery)

The reason why I brought up Brandon Jones and Josh Anderson instead of Matty Diaz, I don’t think in all honesty that Matt Diaz is in the plans of the Braves for the future. Meanwhile, the other 2 young guys are still unproven at the big league level as they are yet to get any kind of playing time to judge what they can do over a long period of games. So see what you have in Brandon Jones and Josh Anderson.

If Frank Wren really wanted to see what we have…he’d put Jeff on a plane to AA, and have the outfield of LF of Brandon Jones, CF Blanco RF Josh Anderson through September when the rosters expand.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Soriano was to get an MRI today at Andrews’ clinic, but no word on results.

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox

I just do not understand your infatuation with Prado. He is and will continue to be a utility man. He will never be a regular for the Braves.

On a team with a power problem you want to put a guy in as a starter who will not hit 5 HR’s in 600 plate appearances. He is what he is - a utility man.

Deep Throat said it very well at 7:11.

And I do not care how many times you try to ignore it but Martin Prado is scared of the baseball. I have seen him flat out run from hard hit balls that are going to bounce a few feet in front of him. You can’t coach that out of him.

Finally, his fielding percentage is lower than KJ’s.

By Saltywoody

August 7, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Plate Appearance

The problem is not that Frenchy can’t see himself as the player many of us believe he can be or is.

The problem is that he thinks he already is such a player and commands everyone’s (fans, Braves, etc.) respect from it. To me, just watching the way he carries himself in the outfield and hearing his comments and everything else makes me feel like he’s got a serious sense of entitlement that, perhaps, is not necessarily justified.

I could be totally wrong on this and I’m sure Jeff wants to succeed.

But the way he handled his demotion, on the heels of him just being wretched at the plate, coupled with the primadonna disposition he displays sometimes makes me think that the only problem Jeff has is himself.

He already sees himself as the franchise outfielder and thinks he deserves the treatment and the contract that goes along with that. He just forgot to justify those expectations with his actual play.

By Saltywoody

August 7, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat

Escobar’s having a rough year, obviously. Anyone can point that out.

But just watching the guy the last few nights in person, you notice a few things.

1. He makes spectacular defensive plays. And he looks very comfortable for his age at shortstop, a very commanding position. Watching he and Kelly play together, it was like night and day. Esco stays loose and low on grounders, Kelly stay high and gets tight. Easiest way I can describe it. Sure, Esco still boots a couple here and there. But those will diminish and the spectacular plays will increase the more playing time he gets. Keep in mind this is only his first full year in the majors (hard as that is to believe).

2. Escobar will never hit for a ton of power. But I’m guessing he’s got some nagging injuries that are taking a toll on his play. If and when he can get those behind them or learn to deal with them better, he’s a great table-setter for your lineup. He laces the ball, he’s got decent plate discipline and speed, and he’ll likely hit you around 15 home runs a year. Not necessarily Hanley Ramirez…but he doesn’t have to be. If you get .300-.320 with 15 homers, 60 RBIs, and spectacular defense at a key infield position…that is definitely a cornerstone guy.

So to answer your question…no. I don’t see anything wrong with him as a cornerstone for years to come. He’s cheap and he’s good. That EXACTLY the guy you want, especially if he’s already on your team.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB sounds like Dr. Andrew’s making a fortune of the 08 braves team..he’ll be seeing braves players today and tomorrow! GL HUDDY guess he could have opened his second office closer to The TED.

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Braves fan in Rockies

I not sure the other teams would have the “holecard” that Escobar as a Cuban would be. If you have not been in Miami you don’t realize that it is a lot more like Havanna than Denver. Escobar would draw probably in the neighborhood of 5,000 extra fans a game.

The new Marlins stadium, while a go last year has been put on hold. The Marlins are paying about $21 million in payroll that does not include Ramirez’s money, which kicks in next year. Dan Uggla is 28 and ready to cash in on a contract similar to Ramirez’s. The Marlins are so cheap they may dump Ramirez to keep from paying Uggla with no new stadium in the near future.

If they could put Escobar at SS for $5 million a year less, that would get their attention. I don’t think it would take more than 2 more “Marlin type” players to get Hanley and what a need he would fill for the Braves.

By What I learned on the blog today

August 7, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Kelly is below average defensively but slightly above average offensively.

Hallelujah! That’s the kind of guy you can build a championship around, isn’t it?

Why folks are in love with this dime-a-dozen player - I just don’t get it.

He may not be the problem. But he certainly isn’t the solution.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

By the way, don’t count out Smoltz, just in case you were inclined to. I’m told he’s already playing golf again, and playing quite well. Dude’s a freak with his recovery abilities….

AZ Braves Fan: Have you been to any games lately out here? Just wondering if the AC has been scaled back all summer, because it’s not too comfortable tonight. It used to always been chilly in here, but someone told me they’ve cut back this summer, not cranked it up.

By I was a teenage Francophile

August 7, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

We’re pulling for you Jeff!

No. WE ARE NOT PULLING FOR YOU JEFF.

Sink or swim, dude.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

know that Chuck will be gone when Glavine comes back (Thank God for that! Put Chuck out of his misery)

what the hell happened to this guy? I remember there were rumors that braves would not part with him to RAYS for baldelli, was after his double digit win after his rookie year. He has fallen off more than any other braves. (sorry Francine). I feel bad for the guy. Someone here suggested he be the Homer- run derby pitcher…BRILLANT IDEA!

By I was a teenage Francophile

August 7, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

5 Burruel LF

Is that the famous Spanish film director Luis Burruel? In left field? Come on. He was a surrealist he should play in the parking lot.

By JC FROM UT

August 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Escobar is a good player who has hit the wall. Maybe in Cuba he has played this many innings, but I think he has not played as much as he has this season. The only problem with Escobar is his temper and flamboyance. It seems ever since his ejection when picked off 1st base a few weeks back he has not played as well or with as much fire. He probably got a talking to and is trying to hold back which is becoming more of a detriment to his overall play.

By Tomas

August 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I was wondering if Kelly would like to play shorstop. That was his initial position, and make Omar the everyday second baseman. I know what you all are going to say, how can I expect Kelly to handle the toughest position in the infield when he is below average defensively at second. He play shortstop in highschool, and was drafted as a SS. Then they asked him to change position, and play left field, because of all the SS in the organization. Furcal, then Renteria, Elvis Andrus before he was traded, Lillibridge, and Yunel. I’m just wondering how good can Kelly be in his original position. After looking at the errors Infante has made this season, he has 5 errors at the shorstop position in 7 games, and 3 errors in all the other positions in 50 games.

DOB

Would Kelly like to play shortstop?

By sheeesh

August 7, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

I read DOBs comments when I stop by to check out the blog since he is the only one with any real information — the rest is just opinion that I only quickly scan, most of which makes one wonder why people who don’t really know much about MLB come here to actually post. But I have scanned some of these opinions have picked up on more than a few of the comments about dumping Escobar, trading Escobar, Escobar having a mediocre year, etc. Yes, his stats are down this year, but it is because he has been injured most of the season (first his leg, now his shoulder). You can tell when he plays that it still bothers him, especially swinging the bat. He is the best all-around position player with the Braves today. If you can’t see the talent in this guy, you don’t know as much baseball as you think you do. Assuming he can stay healthy, he will be a star. He is the cornerstone for the next 10 years.

The Braves need a serious upgrade at second base defensively. KJ is the worst defensive second baseman this team has had in at least 30 years. He says that his defense is the same as last year, which to me is the same as saying he was not that good to begin with and he is not improving. Not good when even he admits that. Got to find a way to upgrade that position. I would rather have a better glove there even if it means less offense. Infante may be the answer, but have to admit I have not seen him play that position before.

As for Francoeur, I would tell him he has to go play winter ball to try to figure things out. Then I give him until June 30, 2009 to prove himself in Atlanta. If it ain’t happening for him by then, it is time to resort to Plan B in RF.

By Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo

August 7, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer needs a statue.

A mound of modelling clay will suffice.

By chrisklob

August 7, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

A few notes about the Rome Braves. Got a chance to speak with Randy Ingle, Rome’s manager, for a few minutes this afternoon. I thought some of y’all that follow the Braves farm might like to hear what he had to say.

Jason Heyward’s knees continue to be a problem for him. He did not play tonight and is considered to be “day to day”. The last time the Braves were in Charleston Heyward was dealing with some sort of leg injury. Hopefully it’s nothing that won’t be a chronic issue throughout his career.

Cole Rohrbough has been promoted to MB although he is actually still with Rome until tomorrow a.m. That’s one step closer to ATL!

I also spoke with Erik Cordier for a few minutes. Some of you may remember the name. He was the player the Braves received from KC in the Tony Pena trade. At the time of the trade he was recovering from TJ surgery. Twice this year he had issues with scar tissue breaking up that sidelined him until recently but he says that the elbow isn’t a problem any more. He’s done reasonably well this year.

One last note, Bruce Dal Canton, MB’s long time pitching coach (and a very good guy) took ill earlier this year and had to take a leave of absence from the team. DC, as he is affectionately known, has been a big part of the minor league development team for the Braves. If you believe in it, please say a prayer or two for him. I know he’ll appreciate it.

By Jeff321

August 7, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Blanco, LF,Escobar, SS,Kotchman, 1B,McCann, C,Infante, 3B,Johnson, 2B,Kotsay, CF,Francoeur,Morton, P

By chrisklob

August 7, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Tomas, Then they asked him to change position, and play left field, because of all the SS in the organization. Furcal, then Renteria, Elvis Andrus before he was traded, Lillibridge, and Yunel

This is not a completely accurate statement. Renteria, Andrus Lilli and Yunel all came after KJ moved to LF (or were so far down the organization).

The real reason that KJ was “asked” to move from SS was, to put it nicely, he wasn’t very good there.

Here are KJ’s minor league stats. Scroll down about halfway down the page and you’ll see his minor league defensive numbers. In 2000, while playing for the GCL Braves he committed 13 errors in just 36 games for a .913 FP. In 2001, at Macon, he played in 116 games and committed a whopping 45 errors (.905 FP). In 2002 it got better. For Myrtle Beach he played in118 games and only had 24 errors.

By Efrim

August 7, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Omar Infante as a regular? I’d rather him stay in a utility role.

People hating on Kelly Johnson has become far too much of a regular occurence on this blog. Although Escobar and Francouer have had FAR worse offensive years. I understand Kelly isn’t an above average defensive player. Heck, he is probably below average. But the guy works the count and gets on base. He is entering his prime hitting years folks. Martin Prado? No. BC sitting Kelly against lefties when he is hitting them at a 330 clip? Very strange.

Braves have much bigger problems than Kelly Johnson.

Starting pitching and left field is a huge issue this offseason. Not 2nd base.

By Let's Get Serious

August 7, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Infante is not an everyday player or a middle of the order hitter.

By McFann :Ô:

August 7, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Hmm…Looks like we won’t be seein’ “my man” Eric Byrnes at all this series…

Sweet!!

Actually, he’s prob’ly out for the season, which is a shame no matter who it is.

By IN DENIAL

August 7, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Escobar and Kelly have 42 walks.

Escobar has 52 K’s…..Kelly has 77.

By IN DENIAL

August 7, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Prado’s only K’d in 8/80 ab’s.

By LivininAL

August 7, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody “He already sees himself as the franchise outfielder and thinks he deserves the treatment and the contract that goes along with that. He just forgot to justify those expectations with his actual play.” I totally agree with your assessment. I think Jeff drifted from thinking about developing as a young Brave and became centered on the dollar signs. — He sure did not look entitled when dragging his chin back to the dugout after every at bat, befoe being shipped down to Miss. I do hope he gets on track for next year.

May sound strange, but I have enjoyed watching the skeleton crew on the field recently, more than before trades and injuries. Appears there is more intensity desire than before.

By Ron_Paul

August 7, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

That was my whole point in bringing up Escobar for Kemp…Escobar is our only trading chip…unless we start trading away young starting pitching again (i.e. Wainwright)…I don’t want to see that happen again. I know it isn’t ideal, but maybe necessary!!

I really like Escobar, but if we could get a corner OF for him…I say do it and figure out SS between Lillibridge, Infante, or a free agent (doubt it). I do love Furcal at the top of the lineup…until he starts swinging for the fences, then I can’t stand him…now I’m ranting!

Again…just me $.02

By I see the truth

August 7, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

IN DENIAL

……..and strikeouts mean the guy is a lesser player?

At least Kelly can hit the ball in the air.

Escobar is slugging .370

By AZ Braves Fan

August 7, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

DOB

Been to a couple of games, A/C was good. But consider that you’re battling a 108 high temp with 30% humidity when the roof was open. It will take a little while to cool even with the, kid-you-not, 20,000 tons of cooling that also cools a good chunk of downtown read more here

Just be sure to drink plenty of water — the rule is that if you’re not having to go the bathroom, you’re not drinking enough. And believe me, with the Braves season this year, I’ve been drinking a lot….

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, good perspective at 8:44.

By bravesfan54

August 7, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Original Jon - please stop with the “first” crap - we don’t care. (Were you the first to climb Everest? the first to walk on the moon? Get the point - WE DON’T CARE!)

By IN DENIAL

August 7, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

I can see the truth but not the screen

I said nothing about Escobar.

By Deep Throat

August 7, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Escobar has 52 K’s…..Kelly has 77.

Weak.

The top strikeouts guy are people like Adam Dunn and Ryan Howard. The lowest is usually Juan Pierre. Who would you rather have?

By Random by

August 7, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Y’know — it’s really hard to recognize Chipper with his mouth closed.

By bravesfan54

August 7, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah (7:18) - for starters I can’t imagine that Infante hasn’t earned a starting position, and the idea of him having to compete with Lillibridge is an insult of immense proportions. Other of your ideas (but not all) didn’t strike me this way. Man, where did that Lillibridge idea come from? - and you have always been so rational - I must have missed something - is it the “youth thing”? Don’t you think Infante deserves the starting nod at 3rd? I mean, man, he has been consistent (or rather started mediocre and consistently improved) on a team that otherwise had da?n few bright spots, and you want to make him compete against a kid. Sorry, don’t get that at all.

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox

RE your 8:06 post: I’d never heard of FRAR until about a month or so ago either. If you had read carefully my stat supports your argument that KJ is a below average defender. Anyway, I think it’s important to note that I don’t really believe in fielding stats of any sort, due to the subjectivity of errors and stuff like that. But please, please, don’t dismiss stats like WARP, VORP, or EqA. Heck, EqA is formulated to be like batting average for people who aren’t into stats like that. Please take a look at this link and at least give it a chance, dude. Like I said before, I’m not sold on any type of fielding stats, and I only cited FRAR to sort of “further the conversation,” so to speak. But the hitting stats are actually really good, and have been independently tested and all that jazz.

ccrider

RE your 8:14:

Please also take a look at that link. I played baseball all four years in high school and for what seems like my entire childhood. I don’t play fantasy baseball, and, in all honesty, the day I realized batting average and RBI weren’t all they were cracked up to be was kind of a sad day for me. But I got over it. Don’t dismiss stats because of your “gut” or becuase you don’t “belive” in “math.” I respect your point of view, about stuff not showing up in stats—which is exactly why I’m not sold on defensive metrics. However, don’t just dismiss my point of view offhand without at least doing a bit of research first.

I’m done debating KJ. We all know how I and everyone else feels about him. Let’s just root for Charlie Morton to keep building his confidence tonight and get us a win.

By THIS JUST IN

August 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson could have a 900 OPS and people on this blog will still hate him because he is below average defensively.

Ridiculous.

By Katz

August 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Despite the fact that Escobar has done next to nothing for about five weeks now and Johnson has had a better season at the plate thus far, I bet Cox would prefer ditching Johnson over Escobar. It’s the “stats vs. traditionalist” thing.

This is not a stats vs. traditionalist thing. Escobar has been about 5 runs better overall than Kelly Johnson from a stats standpoint.

KJ has been about 12 runs better than Escobar with the bat.

Escobar has been about 17 runs better than KJ with his glove.

Statheads don’t and shouldn’t just evaluate a player solely upon offensive stats. Escobar has pretty much been the best defensive shortstop in the NL this season. Those who study defensive statistics say that he has saved the Braves 11.9 runs with his D through July 23rd. Has he struggled a bit lately? Yeah. But Yunel has pretty much been the best. They also say KJ has cost the Braves two runs through July 23rd..

And please stop the asinine comparison of 11 errors each for Escobar and KJ. KJ has nowhere near the range of Escobar. Escobar makes dives and far ranging stabs in the holes that KJ never gets anywhere near.

That’s why Escobar pretty much gives the Braves a 14 run advantage over KJ based upon statistical analysis of their defensive performance. And when you make the positional adjustment based upon Escobar playing a far more demanding position, Escobar has in total saved the Braves about 17 more runs than KJ with his defense.

And please stop wondering whether KJ can man short. KJ made 55 errors one year as a shortstop in the minor leagues. KJ was so incapable of playing short that they throw him out in left where poor fielders go to die before making poor Glenn Hubbard work 24/7/365 to make KJ a slightly below average defensive second baseman. KJ would be a completely incompetent shortstop considering that he isn’t even really all that competent defensively at second base.

Anyone ever wonder what KJ’s range would be if they didn’t employ all of these funky shifts against lefties? The funky shifts are making Kelly look like he has more range than he really does. It’s a little easier to have more range at second when you are standing 30 feet out into the grass in right field.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfkWuYpfdux2FChs6ROEQ&gid=1

Well, anyways, if you go to that site, you’ll see what I am talking about. Through July 23rd, Chipper was ranked the best overall player in the NL, McCann was 9th, Tex was 11th, Escobar was 36th, KJ was 56th. Francoeur was the 4th worst overall player in the NL and the 9th worst in the major leagues. Good ole Frenchy was also the second worst overall player in the majors with over 400 at bats. Thank you Freddy Sanchez for being so miserable.

By IN DENIAL

August 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Deep

How many homers does Howard have?

How many homer does Dunn have?

How many does Kelly have?

By Run Heap Run

August 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Oh…the braves are playing? lol j/k … I’ve been too busy helping my daughter pack. Moving her to Auburn Saturday. cry

To answer the question in the title…I think Hoss is going to miss having Tex in front of him. With that being said, I do hope he comes back hot, just because…I don’t think he gets near enough respect and I’d love to see him take the batting title in his advanced age. Heh.

By Run Heap Run

August 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Wait..are we seriously arguing about Kelly Johnson? Heh. Glad I’ve been busy.

By brent a.

August 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Fractured Testicle?

By McFann :Ô:

August 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Good to have an early lead…

Gotta shut down (it’s “early”, but still gotta).

Night, all.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Charlie’s FIRST hit, and he lashed it. That was a pretty nice swing.

By Jay Jay

August 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t make any sense to me that Yunel is a cornerstone type player, yet Kelly Johnson is awful. Newsflash for everyone, neither one is a cornerstone player.

I never post, but I read this blog often. It is really amazing to me how much grief Kelly has gotten for his offense (which despite what all consider to be a down year for him, he has been average) and also his defensive, which could use some improvement but isn’t as bad as people make it up to be. At this point it is more a myth than the truth. People are looking at his fielding %, but we also need to remember that errors are judgement calls. Many are obivious of course, but some are not. While that doesn’t mean that Kelly was given errors he didn’t deserve or that he wasn’t spared some errors that he did deserve, we don’t know how hometown scoring has helped or hurt other second basemen. The point is, by most other defensive measures, Kelly has been right around average, whether that has been right at average or a little above or a little below.

What happens is that there is an overreaction to every error that he makes. People on the blog were so mixed up in the error he made the night before that I don’t remember one mention of the great run saving play he made during yesterday’s game.

I can’t believe that rational people actually believe that his defense (which has been so-so) outweighs what he gives you on offense, even only having an average season. Kelly has produced 96 runs for the Braves (60 runs scored + 45rbi - 9 to not double count for homeruns). He has made 11 errors and let’s just say he has made 9 mistakes that weren’t counted as errors. Even if all of those mistakes and errors cost the Braves runs (which they haven’t) what KJ gives you offensively still far outweighs his defensive mistakes.

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

The D Backs are showing equipment being installed for instant replay in MLB. They said all teams will have it before the end of the year.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

… I guess Charlie didn’t want to risk having his arm cool down while he was on the bases.

By StingerSplash

August 7, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

What move do the Braves make to get Chipper back on the 25-man roster? Who’s going out?

By sixfourthree

August 7, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, funny stuff about Charlie not wanting to risk his arm cooling down. What’s up with the crazy lady waving the flag? Weird stuff…

By bravesfan54

August 7, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

I have had enough of ignorant comments for the evening - I am in a bad mood, it’s been a bad year, gas is up, Skip died, what else can I say? Oh, well, keep perspective. In 1957 our WS starting SS (Johnny Logan) had 29 - yes, 29, count ‘em errors in 19 games, batted .273 with 10 HR and 49 RBI. That year our starting 2B (the great Red Shoendienst) had 6 HR and 32 RBI, and 7 errors, while Eddie Mathews over at 3d had 16 errors. (Obviously many other factors Aaron, Spahn, Adcock, Crandall, Burdette, Buhl, etc accouted for their title - but note, if you will the seeming paltry fielding of the starting infield - and the paltry power numbers of 2B and SS - again, I exclude the batting 3B Eddie Mathews (32 HR, 94 RBI), but jeesh - keep Escobar in perspective. If you want to compare with the best hitting SS to play the game, of course he sucks…my point being it takes 25 to win this thing.

I have no particular point of view on Escobar. He is at least adequate in fielding and BA, but short on power. (The team, as you have noticed, is short on power, so why is Esco on your trading block?). He might be a Hurst power shift with a different transmission to mix my metaphors.

Stop with the nonsense, please. This has been a very dissappointing season, but mostly injuries, and Francouer. (I do agree with the thought that says: No, I am not pulling for Francouer - I’m watching him!). No sentiment, reality - the man had an awful year when we counted on more. I don’t care if we trade him - but Escobar didn’t have a bad year, and Infante deserves a starting shot. Our OF is power-weak, make changes there.

Don’t insult Infante by suggesting Lillibridge is his competition, nor Escobar by saying ‘he had a rough year’ - he didn’t.

Now go to sleep, and be a bit more positive. I’m tellin’ ya!

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

AZ Braves Fan, very true. It’s not dry like it is most months here. Isn’t this right around what they call monsoon season here? Where they get the quick, violent storms?

By Horses

August 7, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

This is not really a post about who sucks, who should be traded, etc. It’s a post about observing the team I’m seeing on the field. Tomorrow, (assuming Chipper gets the start) we’re basically seeing the whole, ugly truth that is this Braves team. Where are the horses? Chipper is a horse, but we all know his injury history. McCann is a horse, but even though he is the best offensive catcher in baseball, you really don’t want to count on your catcher to be a horse. As some here have already mentioned, KJ may not be the problem, but he’s not going to be the solution either. Escobar’s future is still in doubt in my book. He slowed down after the injury, but the fact remains that Escobar’s long term future as an offensive weapon is still pretty cloudy.
Kotchman? Who knows? He’s not going to produce much power. Blanco? Shows promise as a leadoff hitter, but who’ll drive him in? Kotsay is gone after this year. Diaz is a non-factor now and who knows what his future is? I like Infante’s bat, but where is he going to play? Francouer? Geez, I fear this guy will never be anything other than ordinary. In fact, he’s really going to have to overcome lots of baggage and issues (primarily with the head it seems) just to get up to being considered an average major leaguer.

This team is pretty much an offensive “weak sister.” Unless I’m missing something, doesn’t look like there are any Ryan Howards or Brauns from the farm that are going to be in Atlanta next year. Not sure how the Braves are going to swing it, but if they are going to compete for the NL East next season, they’re going to need to get into the FA or trade market and get some instant offense. Unfortunately, that won’t come cheap. Heck, haven’t even started thinking about pitching next season. They’re going to need a starter, maybe two. that won’t come cheap either.

I don’t know if there is enough payroll available or talent for trade down on the farm, to make this team a real factor in the NL East. Too many pieces missing. The more missing pieces, the more it costs to fix it. (money and talent to trade)

By Beverly Sills

August 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

RE:Brent A@10:19

Too much information.

By bravesfan54

August 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Meant to say that Johnny Logan had 29 errors in 129 games - not 19 games. Stand behind all other figures and opinions.

By Random by

August 7, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Saltywoody, I second DOB on your 8:44. Nice analysis.

(I reserve judgment on your 8:35, though.)

Ron_Paul — you’re just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And which position do you figure would be harder to fill — a high OBP, sterling-defense young SS, or a slugging LF?

(I also second Efrim’s 9:24.)

Nicely understated at 9:24, chrisklob.

By MGL

August 7, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Keely’s fielding % is better than Escobar and Chipper. If he is ranked 56th in the league, there are 400 players on 25 man rosters. 56 is not bad.

Sure, he needs to improve, but he is far from the top of the problems of this team.

As I type this, Kelley makes an excellent play.

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Oh boy…Gregor needs to be careful with those hotdoggy glove flips after making a catch…if Yunel drops that, the ball’s still in play.

By dylan w/o the dead

August 7, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

I think next year we should let all our roster spots be determined by obstacle course on the show wipeout the 8 best times are our starters and the pitching rotation is decided by whoever can stay on the platforms longest while that bar swings around and knocks you off

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Charlie’s making some real strides these last couple of starts, against CC and the Brewers and tonight.

By dylan w/o the dead

August 7, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

hey Dave while you are in arizona are you gonna stop in at alice cooperstown and eat a big unit?

By bravesfan54

August 7, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Revised Opinion (Apology to Wayne in Utah): Infante deserves - not a starting position in the infield, certainly not a starting position at 3B, and my view is limited to whatever can be said for a guy who has done well off the bench.

I was wrong- not just wrong, but “flat out” idiot wrong. Apologize to all. I don’t win the Wurlitzer, but do qualify for a “YOUR AND IDIOT”. (God, I hate that!).

By AZ Braves Fan

August 7, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

DOB

Yes, monsoon season. And there’s one brewing and blowing right now. It looks like you’ll be seeing it very soon radar here

Hooray for Kotsay on that one!

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Kotsay’s first homer since May 20, when he hit one in the second game of the DH vs. Mets. Man, that seems like a long time ago.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

For some idea of how long ago that was that Kotsay hit that homer, it was during a four-game Braves sweep against the Mets.

Yes, the Braves swept an opponent. A pretty good one.

By bravos2249

August 7, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

DOB

My guess is Chuck goes down when Chipper comes back…OR the Braves put Huddy on the 60 day DL, cause he won’t count on the 40 man roster.

Those are the 2 transactions I think will be made to get Chipper and Glavine back.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

now i’m gonna try to find out when the last homer by a Braves OF was, the last before that one.

By Katz

August 7, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

When are you people gonna stop judging fielders by errors? Tom Brady threw more interceptions from 2004 through 2006 than Michael Vick. Did that make Vick a better QB than Brady? Of course not. Brady had alot more pass attempts. So why would you think KJ is just as good defensively as Escobar for the sole reason that they have the same amount of errors? Asinine.

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

OK, this is hard to believe: That was the first HR by a Braves outfielder since … Greg Norton on July 19.

By JC from UT

August 7, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Is AZ still showing any interest in Kotsay?

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

I’d like to have Orlando Hudson in the Braves lineup. Dude can play. He’s from South Carolina, by the way.

By cabravesfan

August 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

DOB if you just look at the regulars in the outfield (Kotsay, Blanco and Francoeur) it is even worse- the last HR one of them hit was july 9th- Francoeur got one…

By David O'Brien

August 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Bravos, with the off day Monday, that probably makes sense — Chuck the odd man out tomorrow to make room for Chipper. But I don’t know for sure.

Chuck wouldn’t have to pitch again before Glavine is activated, provided Glavine has no setback Sat. in rehab start.

By N Nine

August 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Glad we didnt get chad tracy???

By Archbishop of Canterbury

August 7, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Yes Sir!!! It is going to be very “cool” monitoring if Chipper Jones wins the batting title. After all East Division Banners and Batting Championships are what have generated all those marvelous parades down Peachtree. You can recall them all can’t you???

Those individual accomplishments are what generates those heartfelt emotions in fans. i’m sure Florida followers reveled far more in Tim Tebow’s Heismann Trophy than they did in National Championship.

By Andy k.

August 7, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

DOB: Do you think it’s safe to say that a pitcher will be sent down tomorrow when Hoss is activated? Do you think it will be Bueno, because we still haven’t seen him yet, and I would like to?

By Random Buy

August 7, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Yusmeiro Petit may be no Andy Pettitte (yet), but at the very least he’s a Pettitte petit.

FWIW: my Mom says Francoeur’s problem is a short attention span, and that he needs to borrow some pills from Adam LaRoche.

Me, I still think it’s “the vision thing”.

Katz: “And please stop the asinine comparison of 11 errors each for Escobar and KJ. KJ has nowhere near the range of Escobar. Escobar makes dives and far ranging stabs in the holes that KJ never gets anywhere near.”

So Johnson’s “Range Factor” of 4.99 is worse than Escobar’s of 4.87?!?!?

“Anyone ever wonder what KJ’s range would be if they didn’t employ all of these funky shifts against lefties? The funky shifts are making Kelly look like he has more range than he really does. It’s a little easier to have more range at second when you are standing 30 feet out into the grass in right field.”

So, defensive stats are no good?!?!? Or are they only useful in comparing players at the same position?

Just askin’ — as I stated earlier, imo Escobar’s the best defensive player on the team.

By Yeah, but...

August 7, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

“When are you people gonna stop judging fielders by errors? Tom Brady threw more interceptions from 2004 through 2006 than Michael Vick. Did that make Vick a better QB than Brady? Of course not. Brady had alot more pass attempts.”

This year:

Kelly Johnson: 181 put-outs

Yunel Escobar: 145 put-outs

By StingerSplash

August 7, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Pete and the Lemmer were just wondering where Ooltewah, Tennessee, is. It’s right outside Chattanooga. Good high school baseball program there.

By AZ Braves Fan

August 7, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Morton’s looking pretty solid tonight (pitching not baserunning).

DOB, the DBacks broadcast said earlier tonight that he has a 100 pts higher OBA the 2nd time through the lineup. Is that because he’s a rookie and needs to make more adjustments or something else?

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Your mention of Blance flipping the ball to Escobar reminded me of what Skip called the worst call I have ever seen.

I think it was 1982 and the Braves were playing San Diego in Fulton Co. Stadium.

Terry Harper was in LF and made a long, running catch of a flyball down the left field line. He caught the ball and ran three steps, could not stop and put his hands up to brace himself for a collision with the Bull Pen fence. The fence ran parallel to the foul line about 30 away. Harper hit the fence hard and fell over it, causing the ball to fall out. The San Diego player kept running and no one ever stopped him. He scored on a four base error which was later changed to an IPHR.

The umpire, Ed Vargo, ruled that despite catching the ball in fair territory, running 30 feet to the fence and falling over it before losing the ball, that he never voluntarily took the ball out of his glove, thus the inside the park HR stood.

I remember Skip held a grudge against that umpire until he retired and mentioned it frequently as the worst call of his career.

By SandyB

August 7, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

For all us folks who would love to be at the stadium on Tuesday to honor Skip, but can’t because of our jobs…..do you think there’s a chance Sportsouth would video it and replay it so we could see it later? Or might they air it as it is happening?? I hate that I can’t go, but it’s too early in the school year to ask for day’s off…..

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Random Buy, I believe that the “normalized” defensive stats such as FRAR are by positon. Fielding % and range factor are not, I belive. You’d probably want to ask Shaun.

By Stop the Insanity

August 7, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Johnson and Escobar are both good, not great. They’re good role players on any team. No team has all-stars at every position.

The problem is the awful, punchless outfield. The problem is not the infield. Talk about misguided focus.

By StingerSplash

August 7, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

keylargo,

It wasn’t long after that — either later that game or in that series — where Vargo called an out in a very snide fashion on a ball Harper caught and hung on to that Skip just about blew his stack. Harper must have taken three or four steps with the ball in his glove before losing it. Awful, awful call.

By N8

August 7, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Just got home people, and it appears that Morton is on his game, huh?

THAT is what the next two months (less than that now), are all about. Finding out, in fairly meaningless games (to the Braves), what guys ALREADY on the roster are gonna offer in the future.

Not that anybody thought that Charlie wasn’t gonna be here for a while, but if he keeps this up, that would make a VERY NICE trio of pitchers for the future, in JJJ, Campillo and Morton.

DOB

Based on what you said earlier about Infante liking 2B, and Bobby liking Infante, I’m gonna guess that they’ll trade KJ in the off-season.

It’s not that Bobby doesn’t like KJ too, but wasn’t he one of the guys that many teams were calling about last off-season? That might have changed based on him not making huge strides this year. But it just seams like Infante could probably do close to what KJ does (while playing better defense), and KJ just might be the guy with the most trade value, that doesn’t have the “up-side” of say Francoeur.

If Lillibridge can hit a little more, he surely could fill that “uber-utility” guy next year.

Grace and whoever the other guys the D-backs have announcing are raving about Morton.

Yeah, but… “

You DO realize that put-outs are plays where he steps on the base, catches a pop up (or line-drive), or is the “middle-man” on a double play, right?

See, Chipper only has 42 PO this year. Why? Because there aren’t too many 4-6-3 double plays.

Not trying to be an azz, in fact, I’m not sure exactly what your point with those numbers is. But if it’s to show who’s better defensively, PO is NOT the stat to use.

If you were being sarcastic, my bad. In fact….good one.

By DAP

August 7, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

guys…how about charlie morton….what a night for him.

orlando hudson would be good for the braves…but joe and skip said hes asking for like $10mil a year in a contract. thats a bit much.

By Ace

August 7, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

I wish they’d start Infante at 2b next year. Short of that, couldn’t Infante be a super-utility type, playing 4-5 times a week to spell other guys? Would they consider him in a platoon with KJ?

By GeorgetownKid

August 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

Several of your quotes of Morton have him saying things like “this was a good outing, especially for somebody like me who doesn’t have much confidence.”

He frequently refers to the fact that he does not have much confidence, which I view as an odd thing to say about oneself.

My question is, what is the guy like? From your quotes, I visualize a shy, timid guy whose ego is easily shattered.

This is not the makeup of a big-league pitcher.

What is your take on the guy?

Thanks Dave!!

By Katz

August 7, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

This year: Kelly Johnson: 181 put-outs Yunel Escobar: 145 put-outs

Putouts? Putouts?!?!?!?!? Is that how you measure defenders? By putouts? Really? By how well they stand on a bag and stick out their glove and catch a ball thrown by someone else? You do understand that is what the majority of putouts are, right? Standing on a bag and catching a ball. That’s why first basemen usually lead the team in putouts.

It’s also alot easier to make errors at short than second. At short, you have much less time to get the ball fielded cleanly and thrown to first in time. That’s why noodle arms get hidden at second.

Escobar is the best defensive shortstop in the NL and possibly in the entire major leagues. Name one who is better and back it up with stats.

By keylargo

August 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

freudian slip

By ArkyTech

August 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Keylargo,

Way to pull that out of the memory bank. I remember that play vividly even though I was still in elementary school at the time. Sunday afternoon game if I remember right, and I’m pretty sure the Braves lost 1-0.

By Steve from OH

August 7, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

MINORS RECAP:

Richmond (L, 11-2): James Parr got lit up, giving up 6ER in 4 IP. Brandon Jones 2-4

Mississippi (In Progress): Jerome Gamble threw 6 innings, giving up 0ER and striking out 7. Kala Kaaihue 1-3 with a homer. Jordan Schafer 1-3 with a 2B. J.C. Holt 2-2 with 2 2B.

Myrtle Beach (W,3-2): Scott Diamond threw a nice game, going 7 innings giving up 1 unearned run and striking out 5. Tyler Flowers 2-4 with 2 2B. Gorkys 1-3, Eric Campbell 0-3.

Rome (W, 12-9): E. Osuna gets the win, giving up 2 ER in 6 innings striking out 9. Cody Johnson 2-5 2HR and 2K. Freddie Freeman 1-4, 2B, BB. Everyone else had an assorted hit/RBI.

David Francis (the dude who K’d 16 a while back) threw for Danville, giving up 1 unearned run over 7 innings, striking out 8. His ERA now stands at 2.09. Brett DeVall threw 2 innings for the GCL Braves, giving up no runs and striking out 1.

By ArkyTech

August 8, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Please don’t bring up Kelly and putouts……he’s still one very large putout short this season.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

katz gotta stand up for the 2nd baseman a bit. its often a much tougher throw from 2nd base position than it is from SS, because of the angle. and, the 2nd baseman turn the double play with his back to the runner. so dont dis the 2baggers.

By Yeah, but...

August 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Yunel Escobar: 92 OPS+

Kelly Johnson: 108 OPS+

By N8

August 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

ArkyTech

“Please don’t bring up Kelly and putouts……he’s still one very large putout short this season”

Too funny.

On a side note, if Blaine Boyer doesn’t have major surgery on his elbow or shoulder in the next 24 months, I’ll be shocked.

Dude needs a day off….or eight.

Hmmm.

Time for Mike Gonzalez anybody?

By Run Heap Run

August 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

unbelievable.

By Jake

August 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

Get Gonzalez up, get him up now!!!

By DAP

August 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

boyer’s trying to give it up.

By BossLady

August 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer should go rot in hell with all things that go bump in the night.

By NCBravesFan

August 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

If Blaine Boyer is the answer, what pray tell is the question?

C’mon guys, let’s get this win for Charlie!

By ArkyTech

August 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

‘Bout time to shut down Boyer for the season. Tough to make all those appearances after being out of commission for 1 1/2 seasons.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Good game all around so far. Great pitching by Charlie, his confidence is definitely up. Good hitting in close and late in game situations. Franceour got a hit, Kelly has been robbed, and has hit some boltz over the right field lin, Yunel finally came through and has two hits, and Mac back hitting like always.

And not to bash Cox, but why bring Boyer the leading relief pitcher in apperances in a 6 to 0 ball game.

By Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo

August 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

I have been trying to tell you people but you just won’t listen.

BLAINE BOYER is just a big tub of goo.

Tubs of goo can’t pitch very well.

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Well you could see that coming. I believe Cox deserves criticism for not just overusing Boyer(his stats are trending downward) but sticking with him when he’s obviously laboring.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

Bad move on bringing Boyer in a 6 to 0, good move on bringing the Cobra for the final 4 outs.

By N8

August 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

You know what’s funny?

Two nights in row that I’ve watched (didn’t watch yesterday’s afternoon game), the SF announcers and Arizona announcers have literally chuckled out loud at Gonzo’s “motion” on the mound.

I believe the Giants announcers nick-named him the “Cobra”, which is pretty cool, IMO.

And Grace just said…”What is THAT?!?”

That’s funny.

By Leigh

August 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

I am thoroughly confused. How long does it take Cox to figure out that Boyer does not have his A game tonight(or any of the other 60 nights he has pitched for that matter). Why does he sit there and wait until the damage is done before taking him out. Did anyone honestly not see that homer coming??? Maybe I am just of some higher intelligence and should try my hand at managing because almost every game I see myself yelling at the TV at a some bonehead move(or non-move in this case) and it ends up costing us big-time.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

that was a little strong, bosslady.

By Robert S

August 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

We all just knew that Bobby was going to bring in Boyer in tonight’s game, right?

And sure enough, he gives up four runs. I’m really not sure if Bobby Cox knows that he can bring in someone other than Boyer in the eighth inning. It’s almost as if his one track mind says, “Eighth inning = time to bring in Boyer.”

I’m surprised the poor guy’s arm hasn’t fallen off yet. If it does, maybe he should sue Cox.

By Donnie

August 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

I am the walrus…

By Jake

August 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Hey they can chuckle all they want, but it gets the job done. I remember a certain guy who use to rock all the time and we were pretty darn good then.

By TNJeff

August 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Hall of fame managing there - take a 6 run lead and turn it into a save opportunity for your closer

Anyone have a count on how many times Boyer has left a game after giving up a no surprise homer?

By ArkyTech

August 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Y’all realize - if Gonzo can give up just ONE RUN in the 9th……

By N Nine

August 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

maybe goo goo boyer is right. His arm is shot and formed into this goo type material!

By Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo

August 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

I believe Cox deserves criticism for not just overusing Boyer… but sticking with him…

Of course he STICKS with him. He’s a STICKY TUB of GOO.

By Interested Observer

August 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this

I like “the Cobra”, too.

DOB, do you know where that came from or what purpose it serves? He wasn’t doing that before his surgery.

By Couch Tater

August 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this

Boyer wanted Gonzo to have a save.

By ArkyTech

August 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

THE STREAK LIVES! Anniversary is Saturday - just two days away!

Although, now the “no saves in consecutive games streak” dating back to LAST July could end tomorrow……

By My 2 Cents

August 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

Congrats 2 CHARLIE!!!

By Robert S

August 8, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

Leigh, the question should be why Bobby decided to bring Boyer in with a six run lead in the first place.

I’ve got a bald spot on my head from scratching it so much after all the boneheaded moves Cox has made this year.

But Gonzo mowed ‘em down in the ninth, so we got away with it this time…….

By N8

August 8, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

Lets hope that Gonzo’s arm holds up over the next 2 months and next spring. Because regardless of what happens with Soriano (I smell surgery), Gonzo is going to go into next season as the closer.

As he should. Unless of course Smoltz is healthy enough to be.

But Gonzo is the closest closer to Smoltz, as far as guys I’ve “trusted” with the ball in the 9th inning. Which is one helluva compliment, IMO.

Gotta love the COBRA! The only thing better, would be if he did the “crane kick” formation, from the Karate Kid. THAT would be “something”.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

If Boyer had given up one more run, this would have been a one run game in the road. That would be cool when it happens, the 35 consecutive save streak of Gonzales, against the 24 consecutive one run road losses on the road.

By Robert S

August 8, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

But you know, I was thinking, if Boyer had given up one more run and Gonzo held on in the ninth, the Braves would’ve snapped their 26 game one-run losing streak on the road.

Dammit. Missed opportunity! (he says with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

By N Nine

August 8, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Boyer wanted Gonzo to have a save. Couch tater well, why couldnt we knock out the one- run fiasco also? all bobby had to do was leave gooyer in a bit longer.

Night not forgotten for MORTON.. he is developing and the last two months might secure #5 spot for next year.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

Now the Braves are 2-23 in games decided by 2 runs or less this season. With this save he has five saves, thats the most a braves pitcher has this season, and we are in August, not good.

By Chop Chop

August 8, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

I bet Gonzo blows a save the next time the Braves have a chance to get one of them ol’ one-run wins on the road.

I can just feel it.

Congrats to Charlie for pitching well tonight. His game against the Brewers was more impressive to me (the D-Backs have offensive ED), but seven shutout innings and his first big league hit? Can’t beat that.

By A-ville Ranger

August 8, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

I’ve been busy lately so let me concur that Skip Carey will be missed.

On the baseball front Morton showed how good he can be tonight.His curve looked better than I’ve seen him throw….the fastball and changeup weren’t bad either.

Tomas,I think the 24 straight 1 run road losses is just THIS season.Overall it’s 26,don’t short change em.

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe people are jumping on Boyer. It was just a month ago you same people were calling him a stud and Acosta trash.

Now that he’s been overused and is showing it, you don’t have his back. That’s very sad.

And correct if I’m wrong, but aren’t you people who are praising Kelly Johnson the same ones who assured us that Matt Diaz was a stud too if only he could start?

The Braves should look to improve anyway they can, if they already have a top defensive SS why would they downgrade?

If they have a 2nd baseman who isn’t a top guy in any category, why wouldn’t they replace him if someone better came available? How about O Hudson?

Good win tonight. It’ll be interesting to see if Morton can hang on the rest of the season and avoid being sent down again.

By keylargo

August 8, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

I guess it’s because I am in South Florida but I seldom get a Braves announced game. The D Backs announcers, while not the smoothest, were entertaining and gave credit where credit was due. They praised Morton from the start, marvelling at his fastball(96mph), and the use of his changeup.

They did get a laugh out of Gonzo’s motion. Mark Grace, even gave him a nickname - Rockin’ Rodriquez.. I bet the Mexican’s boycott him tomorrow - calling him a racist.

I got a suggestion for opponents that don’t like his motion. Get someone on!! Make him throw out of the stretch.

By fastasballs

August 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

Isn’t it nice to have a real closer? Just think how nasty he will be when he’s fully recovered from TJ surgery.

I can’t help but shake my head after reading the trade KJ or Escobar. Those two are not expected to hit homeruns & have some unreal slugging percentage. Now if you suggest breaking up our esteemed outfield for the good of the team, then I’m all ears.

Willie Harris has more freakin homers than Frenchy. There isn’t any need for other stats when speaking of Frenchy, that about sums it up. Well we could add in .214 since April 23rd as DOB pointed out.

What KJ & Escobar have done offensively is fine IF Frenchy hits 30 & drives in 100. He’s not even close, hell you can add the entire outfield’s production together & probably not get there.

This team isn’t built to play small ball, it was suppose to be a powerful line up, but we all know what became of that. Injuries & a huge let down season from an expected source of power have killed this team.

Wren has a lot of tough decisions to make. The two biggest bats in the line up only play 80% of the time. McCann because of positional demands & Chipper to injury. There isn’t anyone left to fill the void on a constant basis when those two are out. You can’t expect the 2B & SS to hit 30 hrs each, well not this day & age.

This team needs power bats in the outfield. Kotchman is going to be a huge drop off in power #’s from Tex, although Tex wasn’t the most clutch of hitters, but all in all he’s a few steps above Kotchman.

If Wren can’t build the line up he’s going to have to stack the team on the mound. Without a flurry of upgrades I don’t see that much upside with this team for next season.

I’m liking the young pitching, but that takes time to develope. Hansen may make it next season as well, but the rotation really needs an anchor to it with Hudson gone for the season.

I’m really high on the farm system, must be the grass. Some great prospects coming up & for once a slew of top pitching prospects. With the exception of a few guys none are really ready to contribute to the Braves next season.

By N Nine

August 8, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Gonzo is the closest closer to Smoltz, as far as guys I’ve “trusted” with the ball in the 9th inning N8

Gonzo does strike that fear that a true closer needs. He has the FIRE. In COBRA we trust. Funny the “Diamondback” announcers come up with “cobra”. N8 what do we do once smoltie comes back? im guessing he going to the bullpen.

By keylargo

August 8, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

I’ve noticed that if you want to win a series, it’s good to win the first game.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Orlando Hudson is not a bad idea. But he wants at least 10 million per year, and gets injured frequently. Plus he wouldn’t exactly add power, but he is a switch hitter who hits for a 300 average, and plays great gold glove defense. If the braves sign Hudson, then they can either move Kelly to left or add him in a deal to get a power bat. I really like Kelly, and I hope they don’t trade him, but if the braves can make the team better, it would be a good move.

By N8

August 8, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

N Nine

“Funny the “Diamondback” announcers come up with “cobra”.”

It was the Giants announcers on Tuesday. But yes. It is funny.

“…what do we do once smoltie comes back? im guessing he going to the bullpen”

I assume he’ll go to the pen. I guess I haven’t heard what the “time-table” for his return is.

Hell, if it’s not until mid-season, let him take his time and come back as the 5th starter. Easing his work load, and if we are lucky enough to add the right players this off-season to make the post-season, hand the man the ball in Game 1 of the play-offs.

But ultimately, I suspect he’ll be in the pen at some point next year.

Smoltz and The Cobra can form the new millennium’s version of the Nasty Boys.

By Chop Chop

August 8, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

Charlie Morton seems to have an anxiety disorder.

I don’t say that in a mean way.

As someone who has been through panic/anxiety attacks in the past, I recognize some of my old self in Charlie. He just looks so damn uncomfortable. Let’s hope that he grows out of it like I did. It sucks to feel that way. If he ever learns to trust his ability on the mound above everything else (and it sounds like Roger and the team chaplain are working with him regarding that), the rest will fall into place.

By N8

August 8, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

fastasballs

“I can’t help but shake my head after reading the trade KJ or Escobar. Those two are not expected to hit homeruns & have some unreal slugging percentage.”

As you’ve probably concluded based on my couple of years on the blog, I’ll take stellar defense up the middle over ANY bat, any day of the week. Escobar offers that. KJ doesn’t.

We went to the WS in 91 & 92 with Greg Olson, Rafael Belliard, Mark Lemke and Otis Nixon as our “up the middle” defense. I know the game has changed a little, but the general theory of the game hasn’t.

Last time I checked, stopping your opponent from scoring is still just as important as scoring. Just so long as at the end of the game, you’ve scored at least one more run than they did..

At this point, KJ would be an upgrade in RF. But Infante (even if his offense isn’t as good as KJ’s) would surely be a defensive upgrade over KJ. As far as that goes, so would Prado.

“Willie Harris has more freakin homers than Frenchy. There isn’t any need for other stats when speaking of Frenchy, that about sums it up.”

Who woulda thunk that our offense would be more potent had we kept Willie and dumped Jeff?

But hey. It could be worse. JS & Wren could have decided to keep Andruw too, right?

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

And correct if I’m wrong, but aren’t you people who are praising Kelly Johnson the same ones who assured us that Matt Diaz was a stud too if only he could start? kirknga

Ok. I’ll correct you. I think Kelly is an everyday player and was opposed to Diaz starting everyday all along. In fact, I’ve always thought Diaz was nothing more than a good bench player or 4th (or 5th) outfielder.

I really think it’s funny that so many people are making this a Kelly vs. Escobar thing and trying to make people take sides on one of them. It reminds me of the off-season when we had all the Francouer vs. McCann arguments.

Kelly is one of my favorite players, but if trading him makes the team better, then trade him. If we can get a Greinke or someone of his ilk for him, then it might not be such a bad thing. I don’t want to trade him, but like I said…it’s about the team.

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

I think it’s probably safe to pencil in Escobar and Kotchman for next season. Chipper and McCann as well. As for anyone else, who knows? I wouldn’t be surprised to see JF in RF for the Braves or someone else if pitching is involved. But I’d say it’s better than even money he returns as a Brave next season.

LF, CF, 2nd base are the open questions in that order. With the emphasis on acquiring starting pitching, I could see the Braves wanting a cheap but serviceable player like KJ at 2nd, but if he draws interest as DOB has mentioned before, I could see him as trade bait.

I’m betting he stays and money will be spent on LF. Maybe a Burrell, or Abreu, or a trade for Carlos Lee.

Or maybe the Braves can’t get the starters they want so they put money into the offense and pen, and play it that way, like Philly.

By Sigmund Freud

August 8, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop

You obviously have no appreciation for what it’s like to secure a starting spot on a major league roster, especially given the anemic offense this team generates.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this

Boyer has an 8.62 ERA and .302 opp.avg. in 19 appearances since July 1, after posting a 3.63 ERA and .228 opp.avg. in 43 appearances before July 1.

By Chop Chop

August 8, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

Dr. Freud,

My id is munching on your superego.

You see, Charlie Morton has had a lack of confidence throughout his minor league career. This condition is not new to him at the big league level. Charlie was born with abundant id for pitching a baseball. In order to realize his full potential, Charlie Morton should allow this pitching id to override his superego when on the mound.

In short, Charlie needs to learn that it is okay to dominate the opposition. In fact, that is the whole reason for his presence on that mound.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop, that Freud bit just made me chuckle at the end of a very long day in a very steamy dome (AC is now off and this place is sweltering; i’ve got to get my tire butt out of here.)

Actually, I wish I’d thought of it. I’d have written it.

By uga-brave

August 8, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

section 412,

you asked me where we are staying in phoenix- scottsdale for the dawgs game.

we are staying at the marriot, some place called cammelback.

supposed to be a good golf course.

we are flying out wed. night playing golf thurs. and fri.

dawgws game sat. night and are staying till monday.

we are eating dinner at some place named SALT on friday night.

my first trip to phoenix, so if anybody knows any of these places i mentioned, i would love some feedback.

By Sigmund Freud

August 8, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop

You must have flunked psych 101. It looked to me that Charlie was doing just that against the Brewers and Diamondbacks…no?

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

Fair enough Roman Gal, you weren’t one of those people, but I still can’t help but note the severe lack of enthusiasm now for Diaz.. The intensity of support for Diaz was the same as it is now for KJ despite there being some questions as to whether or not he was the best option at that position. People pointed to the numbers and said they showed a stud, if only he was given time.

I don’t get the KJ vs Escobar thing either, though I will admit that I’m not a huge KJ fan. I don’t trust him in late situations defensively.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

Cobra, huh? I like it. I really like it.

You guys say the D-backs announcers came up with that, or the Giants announcers?

Interested Observer, Gonzo told me he started doing that in Florida to kind of get pumped up because he was pitching in extended-spring games at noon in front of about 15 fans in the broiling sun.

I think it’s terrific, and adds a certain amount of apprehension with some hitters, I’m sure. Long as he’s dealin’, it’s cool as hell.

By Chop Chop

August 8, 2008 1:59 AM | Link to this

Dr. Freud,

Before I find my bed…

Charlie Morton’s journey is ongoing. There will be more obstacles along the way. However, these last two starts have been very promising. Let us hope that the confidence he builds is left unshaken by any bumps in the road.

I made an A in Psych 101. How? I subjected my professor to Pavlovian training. For my final, I rang her bell.

She gave me an A.

By Sigmund Freud

August 8, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop

Sweet dreams. I thought you said you had outgrown your panic/anxiety attacks?

By Henry

August 8, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Ron Paul or Ru Paul what are you smoking, Yunel Escobar and McCann are the only future AllStars on this team, and will be the cornerstones of this Franchise. The Braves will be alright, we need someone in left field with power, but not Adam Dunn, he strikes out way too often, and we cannot have him and Francoer on the same team, unless we are trying to set a record with a pair of strikeout leaders. The young Pitchers are coming around and as oddly as it may sound, we should sign Hampton for a year at say $2M with incentives based on his appearances on the mound. Schafer and Blanco can alternate in centerfield, Kelly deserves to stay at 2nd, the errors will reduce. My biggest concern remains in right field, and hope this is just one bad year that a lot of players go through. Can someone tell me why Blaine Boyer is still on this team?

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

That’s the same story Grace and Sutton retold tonight about the origins of the Gonzalez rockin.

I did hear Grace refer to him as Rodriguez though, not good. And he setup the appearance by teasing “wait until you get a look at…” coming up.

My impression was that he was equal part joking and mocking as well.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this

kirknga, I honestly think KJ is getting better at 2nd base. It seems his range is increasing as the season goes on and he’s getting to more balls. He has his moments.

I don’t think defense has been the main problem this year for the team. It’s been the offense. So it just doesn’t make much sense to bench one of your best hitters because he’s not the best 2nd baseman in the world (or team, for that matter.)

A team in need of power doesn’t sit one of it’s better power hitters.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this

Lesson for the blog:

If you spray hairspray on your butt, it’ll keep your panties from getting in a wad!

You’d think Kelly Johnson was Hitler the way some folks on here hate on him.

By N8

August 8, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

DOB

It was the Giants announcers on Tuesday.

But I agree. It’s kinda “old-school”. So exaggerated.

I like the motion….and the nickname.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this

Every time I hear Charlie Morton talk it makes me love him even more. It’s adorable how bad he is at it.

I loved it when someone asked him about his double and he just said, “I’m here to pitch.”

By uga-brave

August 8, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

going to phoenix-scottdale to see the dawgs.

never been. would love some feedback from anybody that knows the area.

i have never been.

we are staying at some place called the cammelback.

playing some golf eating at some place called the SALT on friday night.

i hear scottdsale is fun.

there is going to be a ton of dawgs fans out west.

cant wait, section 412 look me up.

go dawgs. there will be a bunch of us out there.

i am going out there with two ups pilots, we all barely qualified for points to get tickets.

funny thing we got tickets out west, but two of us did not have a enough points to get LSU tickets.

going to columbia, i hate that rooster sound.

that is the game that sets the tone.

i believe we will somewhat take care of business out west.

By ccrider

August 8, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

N NINE and Steve from OH, I agree its time to put this KJ topic to rest. The armchair GM’s like ourselves always want to see their team play the style and aquire the players to fit that style. The real GM, Scouts and Manager will have to make the real decisions and I hope they make the right choices because after watching very few good Braves teams between the late 60’s till 1991, I admittly am SPOILED. I hate being in August with nothing to play for and the only fun in watching the games are for the occasional hopeful performances like we got from Charlie Morton Tonight!

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal, like I said, I don’t dislike KJ, I just hold my breath sometimes late in games and the ball comes to him.

I look at his offensive numbers and was shocked to see that he is basically Francoeur in terms of results!

Francoeur has 9HR’s 49 RBI’s 81 SO’s in 429 AB’s.

Kelly has 9 HR’s 45 RBI’s 78 SO’s in 380 AB’s.

Kelly has a higher BA, OBP, and Slug% but the end result is nearly the same.

I guess we can say that’s good production from 2nd base, but the same is not true if the guy is playing RF.

By BA

August 8, 2008 3:04 AM | Link to this

When I think about an infield with Chipper, Escobar, INFANTE, and Kotchman, now THAT’s the kind of defense my fellow oldtimer n8 was talking about (Lemke, Belliard, etc.). Infante and Escobar would be some kind of slick. McCann is a huge upgrade over a certain catcher that girls liked. The missing piece? No Nixon. Kotsay is superb defensively, and I really would like them to bring him back as a fourth OF. You always need a quality vet like that in the clubhouse. But I don’t see the guy starting 150 games.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 3:04 AM | Link to this

kirknga, I’m not very good at debating/ arguing so I’m not going to.

I’ll just say that if I had a vote, he would be remain the everyday 2nd baseman unless he started helping the team lose. And if it had to be someone else, my next choice would be Omar.

By uga-brave

August 8, 2008 3:09 AM | Link to this

a .350 slugging % says it all.

shaun and his numbers cant defend that.

he tries, he really does.

if he hit .230 with 20, and 70, nobody would complain.

really hard to make a argument for the pro side.

i said it last year, got blasted, but he is not a middle type guy.

kinda funny now that he is hitting a cool .230 he is not the first quote out of the lockeroom.

humility does funny things.

By N Nine

August 8, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this

DOB!!!

please…please show that boyer stat to bobby cox and ask him if he is over Used!! Its so telling with your eye popping stat. I guess leads MLB in games played. To me boyer is over used.

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 3:13 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal, I agree with you, though I’d like to see Lllibridge get a shot at 2nd.

But KJ’s ok at his price range so really can’t complain much.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this

kirknga, I think it’s great that we have such great back-ups that we’d even consider making them starters. Much better than Woodward, and Orr. (Bring back good memories?)

By BA

August 8, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this

I like ugabrave’s late night posts. Some funny stuff. I just discovered that if you imagine uga’s posts as read by the late great comedian Mitch Hedberg, those posts get REAL funny. Try it. (this is all in good fun, I genuinely like ugabrave)

By kirknga

August 8, 2008 3:51 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal no need to get ugly by mentioning Woodward and Orr! Why don’t you just throw in Lockhart while you’re at it!

Good bye to Corky too!

But yes, thanks to a good farm system and a great trade by Wren, we have some versatility on the team that we’ve lacked. Unfortunately, not much power, and they have had to play too much due to injuries, but they’ve held together ok.

By BayAreaSteve

August 8, 2008 4:16 AM | Link to this

Where’s whiskey?

And can someone explain uga’s position with regard to Francouer. I’ve been away a few days, and am unclear.

Somehow, I’ve managed to recall Robert’s area of expertise.

The two are similar.

McFann, nice ellipses. They didn’t go unnoticed. An homage to a certain scoots…I know how he appreciates them.

By BayAreaSteve

August 8, 2008 4:22 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal,

I tried the hairspray trick. My panties looked ok, but I got this really weird sensation…kinda flushed…I liked it.

But then I dropped my cigarette. I blame you, woman.

By BayAreaSteve

August 8, 2008 4:36 AM | Link to this

Am I “and idiot” for thinking our Braves still have an OUTSIDE shot at the playoffs?

ok, extreme outside…Japan world series maybe?

If we played .750 ball, is that 90 wins?

Mr. Payne, help?

Braveheart, magic number?

Math + whiskey = DOB math

just sayin’

By N Nine

August 8, 2008 4:48 AM | Link to this

Am I “and idiot” for thinking our Braves still have an OUTSIDE shot at the playoffs? BayAreaSteve

gaining a game in standings got you all excited huh? not a chance with 41 teams ahead of us.

By Oz

August 8, 2008 5:01 AM | Link to this

chipper WILL win BT…the only sunshine in this gloomiest of seasons…GO RAYS, baby!

By Jay Jay

August 8, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this

kirknga mentioned that while KJ has a better avg, obp, and slg numbers than Jeff that the end result is the same. Well, if you just look at the bare numbers it looks like that, but then you have to remember that KJ spent a lot of time batting leadoff or second in the order. Jeff has been in the middle of the order since day one. There is no reason that a guy who constantly had Chipper, Mac, and Tex in front of him should have the same number of rbi as a leadoff or two hole hitter. Also, Jeff is supposed to be a big power threat and KJ is not. Kelly has been a lot better than Jeff this season and it isn’t even close.

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

My take on Omar Infante becoming a starter depends strictly on who is traded between now and next season. LF is the last place I expect to see him play regularly unless Frenchy is traded or demoted. Not enough power to go with Blanco and Frenchy. SS or 2nd base could be an option depending if one of the starters is traded. My guess is he is better off as a utility / ph type player. We have another player like that also…..believe Matt Diaz is his name.

By WordWizardHobo

August 8, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this

Did Morton get his first major league hit last night? I think that should be the main accomplishment of the night.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

Random Buy, I believe that the “normalized” defensive stats such as FRAR are by positon. Fielding % and range factor are not, I belive. You’d probably want to ask Shaun.

Here’s how Baseball Prospectus defines FRAR:

Fielding Runs Above Replacement. The difference between an average player and a replacement player is determined by the number of plays that position is called on to make. That makes the value at each position variable over time. In the all-time adjustments, an average catcher is set to 39 runs above replacement per 162 games, first base to 10, second to 29, third to 22, short to 33, center field to 24, left and right to 14.

Fielding runs above replacement. A fielding statistic, where a replacement player is meant to be approximately equal to the lowest-ranking player at that position, fielding wise, in the majors. Average players at different positions have different FRAR values, which depend on the defensive value of the position; an average shortstop has more FRAR than an average left fielder.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

BayAreaSteve, well, if the Braves win nine games in a row, they’d still just be a .500 team. I think that says a lot about their playoff hopes. The teams in contention for the NL East title and Wild Card spots have won 6-10 more games than they’ve lost.

The Braves have 47 games left. To win 90 they’d have to win 37 more games. I suppose it’s not out of the question but the odds have to be less than one or two percent, don’t they?

Francoeur has 9HR’s 49 RBI’s 81 SO’s in 429 AB’s.

Kelly has 9 HR’s 45 RBI’s 78 SO’s in 380 AB’s.

Kelly has a higher BA, OBP, and Slug% but the end result is nearly the same.

I guess we can say that’s good production from 2nd base, but the same is not true if the guy is playing RF.

What do you mean the end result is nearly the same? Kelly will finish with a significantly higher AVG/OBP/SLG, as you said, so Kelly Johnson is clearly the more productive player.

Their homerun totals, their RBI totals and their strikeout totals don’t tell us anything about how often they’ve been on base or how many bases they’ve accrued for their team—which is what leads to runs.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Kirknga-Dude, you mentioned the Braves picking up Orlando Hudson for 2B next year, The DBacks announcers were talking about Hudson’s situation and claim he will be looking for a $10 mil per year contract-hence not on the DBacks’ radar for next year.

Kelly Johnson is making $430,000 this year and even in arbitration this winter, likely won’t make a mil next year.

Is Hudson ten times better than Kelly? Don’t think so. Hudson will not be a Brave, nor at that price should he be. We need pitching and outfield help. Obsess on someone other than Kelly. Next season he’ll be right where he is now-playing second base.

By Mike

August 8, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

DOB

I’d like to have Orlando Hudson in the Braves lineup. Dude can play. He’s from South Carolina, by the way.

I’m guessing you aren’t a Kelly fan? I’m sure you’ll say you are, but Kelly probably isn’t going to be moved to left field, right? Isn’t Orlando looking for 5 years and 50 million…..when he will be 32 at the start of next season?

Kelly needs to stay put. 3 more arb. eligible seasons. Fine by me. Not quite sure why most people on this blog hate the guy’s game. Plenty of other areas where we could improve, all three OF spots for starters.

Our infield is set folks.

By JC FROM UT

August 8, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Free agent monet cannot be spent on a middle infielder like Orlando Hudson. Hudson is a good player but the money needs to be pu toward a top of the rotation guy and a thumper for LF. I would like to sign Pat Burrell. Not the greatest of defensive players but always hits around .280 with 30HR and 100RBI. Plus he kills the Mets.

By Run Heap Run

August 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

WOW this weather is amazing. Why can’t we have these beautiful low humidity days when the Braves are playing at home? I’m sure it will be back to sweltering by Tuesday’s game.

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

So, I turned the game off after we went up 6-0.

When I saw the score this morning, do you think I had any doubt about who pitched the 8th inning?

By lewie

August 8, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

missed most of the game at the wilco show here in charleston (great show btw…nice to see them pulling out stuff from the earlier albums again) but got to watch the last 2 innings

gonzo is straight, no chaser…kid has got it as far as a closer goes.

boyer’s arm has got to be about to fall off….someone really needs to tell bobby to quit running him out there every damn game

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Orlando Hudson will be 31 next season and he’s basically been a league average hitter his entire career. And I’m not sure he’s any better defensively than Kelly Johnson. Throw in the fact that he’s surely to make at least his $6.25 million salary from 2008 and no way the Braves even consider him.

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Good outing by Charlie Morton.

Boyer comes in and gives up a triple, HBP, single, homerun. (4 runs)

Once again, SHAME on Bobby Cox for trotting this underachiever out there!

By song

August 8, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Braves pitchers are not what they used to be.

We don’t have anyone on the Top Gun list of 10 fastest pitchers in the majors.

96.6 mph was all it took to get on the list last night.

By Jay Blaisdell

August 8, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

It’s little wonder you give us rock lyrics. It has to be depressing covering the Braves, given the little minds and the tiny alligator arms of Time-Warner. The talent drain is evident and it gets a little worse every year. I miss Skip. I miss Ted. I miss Jane. I miss America’s Team. I miss The Chippah. I miss prospects like Jermaine Dye no longer coming through the system. Gimme some more of that old-time rock ‘n roll.

By Efrim

August 8, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I think Orlando Hudson is a better defender than Kelly. But Johnson is 4 years younger, and there is no reason to think he can’t put up better numbers than Hudson over the next four to five seasons. Nothing has changed on this blog. People still don’t understand the value of a hitter who actually knows how to work the count and get on base.

By **Original Jon**

August 8, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

What I want to know is how a pitcher with a 2-6 record and ERA over 4 gets the chance to lead the league in appearances. If anything, he should have the fewest amount of appearances with those types of stats.

By McFann :Ô:

August 8, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

BayAreaSteve McFann, nice ellipses. They didn’t go unnoticed. An homage to a certain scoots…I know how he appreciates them.

Pardon?

Ah! McCann got his first RBI since returning to the line up…and had a two hit night to boot! Those were hits number 109 and 110, and RBI number 64! Oh, and he now has 201 total bases this year. His career high is 253 in 2006.

But I’m holding Mark Bowman accountable if 3BMac’s on-base streak ends tonight.

: >

By **Original Jon**

August 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Jay Blaisdell What are you talking about dude? given the little minds and the tiny alligator arms of Time-Warner Time Warner hasn’t owned the Braves for a while now, get your story straight.

By JC FROM UT

August 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know if Scott Diamond is high on the Braves prospect list? He seems to have pretty good #’s. Same question for Jon Owings?

By Lew

August 8, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Jeff321-Dude, you can’t call Boyer And Underachiever. Check the stats that DOB posted earlier. The guy is flat worn out. He has had surgery, missing at least a year and now he leads the NL in appearances.

I don’t usually criticize Bobby Cox, but with a 6 run lead, not too sure why the game wasn’t handed to Nunez or someone who hadn’t pitched an inordinate number of times in recent weeks. I realize BC has to work with what he has and that 4 inning appearances by starters like Chuckie don’t help strengthen the pen, but there were a couple guys in the pen last night that had pitched much less than Boyer has lately.

Kind of hard to blame Boyer (despite what Tub of Goo rants about) for his arm falling off. The Dude just keeps going out there, not griping and pitches until he can’t pitch anymore. Also, keep in mind, he DID have two outs before he gave up those runs. Criticize him for not putting them away if you must, but underachieving? Not before his overuse.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Efrim, Hudson’s fielding percentage isn’t all that much better than Johnson’s. Hudson’s range factor is worse. Hudson’s zone rating is worse. Hudson’s revised zone rating (which takes into account balls fielded outside of his “zone”) is the worst in the NL among regular secondbasemen. Could they all be deceiving?

By cooper

August 8, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

RE: Boyer I think Bobby believes arm fatigue is only exhibited by a drop off in velocity no location.

If Boyer wants some rest all he needs to do is drop his fastball into the 80s.

Or he can have TJ surgery over the winter by sticking with Bobby’s approach.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if the water table in Georgia is still low, but if the rain here doesn’t stop soon, we could build a pipeline and fill Lake Lanier pretty fast-15 inches of rain this past week. It’s still raining and I have not heard that there will be sunshine this weekend, either.

If this keeps up, I think a Genetically engineered set of gills or maybe buying my wife a Bass Boat to get to the Law School are in order.

By David-ATL14

August 8, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

On a blog full of assinine statements by many

The following takes the booby prize.

Shaun: I’m not sure Hudson is any better defensively than KJ.

It’s fine to want to keep KJ, it’s fine to think Hudson might be too pricey, but it’s not fine to make absurd out of touch with reality statements like that.

Hudson is a two time GG winner and one of the premier Glove men in the game. KJ has a nice bat is in the bottom ten 2b defensively.

Shaun you lose all creditabilty with your pro KJ bias when it causes you to make absurd observations claiming that Hudson and KJ are equals with the glove.

They aren’t now nor ever will be.

Ranks right there with your previos takes that include these gems: “Giles will be a top 5 2b after his release in 2006”

and pinch hitting isn’t hard to do, despite DOB giving you takes from both Chipper and Pendleton saying otherwise.

Like I said earlier it’s fine to want KJ to remain on the team even at 2B because of his bat and relatively low salary. Just stop with the nonsense though in the absurd premise that KJ is equal to Hudson with the glove.

Nobody in the game would agree with that baseless assertion whatsoever.

By Efrim

August 8, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you’re probably right. I think the perception around the league is that Hudson is a better defender, but those stats say otherwise.

Kelly Johnson is a better bet for the next 5 seasons than Orlando Hudson. Especially considering the lucrative contract Hudson will get this offseason.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

JC FROM UT i just dont think pat burrell is that kind of player we need. we need a guy that can be the focal point of an offense, which burrell has never been. i think he is good with those beasts in philly around him, but would mostly be frusterating playing on this team.

By Cecil34

August 8, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

StingerSplash

Not many know where Ooltewah is - do you live around there? That is where to get the liquor when you are in Bradley county…

Saltywoody

I agree with the “entitlement” theory on Jeff.

Jeff is a good guy, but even good, grounded guys will be affected by the fawning and positive attention he received at Parkview. And I know from those in the trenches with him there that it was numerous and constant.

When your family, friends, teachers and coaches treat you with awe and reverence, it gets addicting and feels pretty dang good. No one ever expected any less than to see him at Turner field in the outfield.

Of course on the high school level, deservedly so, as Jeff was head and shoulders above his peers in baseball. He was a pretty good football player too, but not nearly as dominant as he was on the diamond.

Anyone who knows anything about Coach Flowe and Parkview know that if you are a good football player you want to play in that program. It prepares you for excellence in all areas.

But what it fails to do is put egos in check.

Therefore, as the star rises in ever-increasing levels of talent and competition, the superiority and favoritism and fawning become less prevelant.

Therefore, those that are used to that treatment suddenly are treated like a .230 hitter, then they lose decorum and lash out.

This is because it has always been too easy.

I think Jeff is going through a learning experience and I know he is intelligent enough to come out of it a better man.

The question yet to be answered is has he physically peaked skill-wise and this is the best we are going to get.

God, I wish I knew the answer to that, and just what his problem is, because I would have never predicted this decline.

The off-season strategy is so dependent in many ways to what kind of Francouer we are going to get in ‘09.

By StingerSplash

August 8, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Watching a “Hogan’s Heroes” episode on youtube last night, and Hogan (who knew Bob Crane was such a perv in real life?) was trying to convince a German general he had a mysterious illness that had already claimed two “prisoners” — named “Kelly” and “Johnson.”

By Lew

August 8, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Y’all-It’s pretty much a Moot Point who’s better between Hudson and KJ. Hudson’s not going to be playing 2B for the Braves, but KJ IS. End of story.

By Tom

August 8, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

*

*

GREAT SONG!!!

*

*

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

David-ATL14

Thank you for your thoughts at 10:29AM.

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if the water table in Georgia is still low, but if the rain here doesn’t stop soon, we could build a pipeline and fill Lake Lanier pretty fast-15 inches of rain this past week. It’s still raining and I have not heard that there will be sunshine this weekend, either.

Lew

The water level is still low. My well went dry and had to be dug deeper this week. The men doing the work stated they had work backed for days with the same condition. I cannot speak for the Atlanta area but South GA is still hurting. I always considered Macon around the cut-off for south-north GA. Wish you could send some rain this way.

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Lew — I have to blame somebody! And who better than Boyer?

With that said, of course its Bobby Cox’s fault. However, Boyer wasn’t that good before the “league leader in appearances card” started getting played. I mean, his fastball gets JACKED and the curve is mediocre at best.

By David-ATL14

August 8, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

While OPS and some of the other offensive metrics yield a pretty decent snapshot of a player, the defensive metrics that I’ve seen including ZR and RZR are absolute garbage.

Proof that they are terribly flawed is found in the numbers suggesting that KJ is equal to Hudson with the glove.

You won’t find one player, one coach, one Manager or one NL beat writer that that would tell you that KJ is even in the neighborhood defensively with Hudson.

Like i said earlier I think KJ has value in his bat and low salary and he might have even imporved to just a tick below avg with the glove, nowhere close to Hudson and if you will put down the BS defensive metrics and actually watch the game it’s clearly clearly evident for all to see.

Would love to see DOB weigh in on whether KJ is equal to Hudson with the glove.

Laughable premise at best.

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

DAP -

I tend to agree with you about Burrell. Just a hunch but I cannot see him carrying this team as say a clean-up hitter in LF.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

David-ATL14, is it really that absurd to say Hudson may not be much better than Johnson defensively (notice I never said “equal”)? Look at the evidence.

Also what do Hudson’s past Gold Gloves have to do with what he’s done defensively this season and what he’ll do next and over the length of his next contract?

Nobody in the game would agree with that baseless assertion whatsoever.

Apparently you missed this post: Hudson’s fielding percentage isn’t all that much better than Johnson’s. Hudson’s range factor is worse. Hudson’s zone rating is worse. Hudson’s revised zone rating (which takes into account balls fielded outside of his “zone”) is the worst in the NL among regular secondbasemen. Could they all be deceiving?

By flange1

August 8, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Cecil34,

I think that you have hit on a very important point with your 10:38.

The Braves need to know what to expect from Frnchy before they build for 2009.

If we were to get 2006-2007 Frenchy, I can see management slotting him in the clean up position, Mccann in the 5 hole, KJ in the 6th Casey in at 7.

But with 2008 Frenchy, the hole to fill is cleanup which is not an easy position to fill.

By the way great game from Morton last night. I really like this kid. Hope he can keep the confidence up. He is another guy that I think would benefit from seeing Dr Jack Llewelen.

It is amazing what a good sports psychologist can do! Look what he did for Smoltz, it is a little of the same issue…

By Efrim

August 8, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Lew

Y’all-It’s pretty much a Moot Point who’s better between Hudson and KJ. Hudson’s not going to be playing 2B for the Braves, but KJ IS. End of story.

I hope you are right. I’ve never seen this blog torn on one player’s overall ability and worth to the team. It is a shame. He is a real solid player and I think a lot of teams would love to have him.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

David-ATL14, why are ZR and RZR absolute garbage? You really don’t give much reason except to say that there is no way Johnson is equal to Hudson. How do you know that RZR and ZR are telling us something that coaches, mangers, etc. don’t realize? Isn’t it quite possible that even if those metrics aren’t perfect, they still tell us something and it’s still possible that the difference between Hudson and Johnson isn’t as dramatic as you think?

And again, isn’t it quite possible Hudson’s not the same fielder he was when he won his Gold Gloves? What’s laughable is the assumption that because a player won Gold Gloves in the past that he is a great fielder this season. Why make that assumption? Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove when he was a DH. And Ozzie Smith won Gold Gloves in the past, does that mean he’s a great fielder in 2008?

By sri

August 8, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

A nice read about a player’s perspective. I guess this is how Kotchman feels right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/opinion/08glanville.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1218207644-vBlJgUVmofs7p9RY7Zqgfg

By DAP

August 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

guys, can we get jermaine dye from the white sox this offseason? would they part with him, and if they would, would he meet our needs as a team?

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

BTW:

.311!

By David-ATL14

August 8, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Didn’t miss that post Shaun. Just laughed at the flawed conclusions they lead you to assert.

Shaun they are flawed, the deception comes in that they lead egg heads like you who don’t watch the game to make assertions that KJ is equal to Hudson with the glove.

ZR and RZR= Garbage metrics. Flawed conclusions and assinine proclamtions.

I’m not advocating KJ go, or KJ shift positions or Hudson be signed, just saying any set of numbers that lead you to assert that KJ is equal to Hudson with the glove are terribly flawed in theory and even more ridiculed in practice(ie:the actual games)

By flange1

August 8, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Efrim,

Your 11:01 says more than you think.

I would consider trading KJ for a power bat and then signing O Hudson or trying Prado or Lillibridge or who ever else the team sees that they like.

If the team can fill a bigger need with KJ as the centerpiece of a trade then so be it.

I like KJ, want him to stay, but the Braves need a power hitter badly and if a trade for KJ can get that, I think we can find a player that can handle second base.

Does that make sense?

By Jim Hertel

August 8, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question from way out in left field. What are the chances that one of these 3 guys — Jon Mark Owings, Willie Cabrera, or Concepcion Rodriquez — could find lightning in a bottle, make the jump all the way from our high A team, and be productive in left field for us? I know it is out there, but the Braves need a good right handed run producer in left field. Our right handed sock is further diminished by JF’s malaise. Most of our outfield prospects that are close or outstanding prospects are lefty swingers. There’s not much on the free agent market — Manny be Manny in Atlanta wouldn’t do, and that’s not where to spend the money. Is it possible we could fill our need in-house? Also, I’m a realist. It’s going to be sometime before the Braves are ready to contend. It’s much easier to fall from the top to the bottom than it is to climb from the bottom to the top again. It’s called gravity. So, if we are building longterm — could anyone of these three guys be one of the pieces needed?

By Lew

August 8, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Efrim-Of course you can’t rule out some trade that involves KJ that improves the team, but it will not likely be for another 2B, unless as part of a package that fills the Braves’ needs at pitcher and in the outfield. . Be that as it may, this fascination with Orlando Hudson is highly misplaced-The Braves will NEVER sign him at the salary he will seek. People also undervalue the number of relatively inexpensive years Kelly can still give the Braves-Francoeur, too.

Jeff321-Dude, to tell you that you are flat out wrong about Boyer probably won’t change your mind (and why, exactly, Do we need to blame anyone for anything? Does that change circumstances?), but if you look at the stats DOB cited earlier and adding the balance of his ML career, through the first 90 appearances of his career, Blaine Boyer had a mid 3.00 ERA and a relatively low average against. He has ALWAYS maintained a worthy K to BB ratio.

These stats do not indicate anything other than that he has been overused-32 appearances by June 6 and then another 11 by the beginning of July?-absurd for a pitcher who has just spent the better part of two seasons recovering from a surgically repaired arm.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

flange1the braves might try to be a different type of team next year. since they dont know what they will get out of francouer, they might try to get one solid outfielder…maybe a guy that barely has 20HR power, but can play everyday, and then try to stack the pitching staff.

having hudson out next year hurts real bad, but an outfielder in the mold of say…bobby abreu…and this team suddenly has good speed, with blanco, escobar, johnson, they have some contact guys, with kotchman, escobar, chipper, the new outfielder, they have ok power with chipper and mac…but they put the ball in play, and dont strike out, which is a different style than before.

so, a couple of good starters, a bullpen guy or two, and a matt kemp/bobby abreu type outfielder, and we have a pretty good team…not bashers, but they will score thier share of runs.

By flange1

August 8, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

DAP,

That would be an interesting team.

But could the manager handle that kind of game?

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

These stats do not indicate anything other than that he has been overused-32 appearances by June 6 and then another 11 by the beginning of July?-absurd for a pitcher who has just spent the better part of two seasons recovering from a surgically repaired arm.

I agree. But, Cox is still the one sending Boyer out there to fail. Need stats? W-2/L-6/ERA-4.92.

So, no need to break the stats down except for the entire year. And I think that makes one Mr. Boyer a loser.

By Efrim

August 8, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Obviously, if KJ can bring value in a trade, then of course I would consider it.

I still like Matt Cain. I think the Giants may entertain offers. Slim chance of getting him without giving up a ton, unless Sabean has one of his moments. Which isn’t out of the realm of possiblity…..

By Lew

August 8, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Jeff321-I told you that logic and reason and telling you that you were completely wrong wouldn’t change your mind-seems I was correct in THAT assessment- but then again, you ARE a DOB MIB Blog Denizen, so I’m not in the least surprised. Typcial-as is your need to assess blame rather than suggest solutions.

As for the 2-6 record-even the most effective closers many times have a poor won lost record-it comes from being in an inordinate number of close games, where a single mistake could cost you-and often does-and need I remind you of how many one run games the Braves have played? Such is definitely the case with Boyer earlier this season. That is why relief pitchers are rarely evaluated on W-L records. As for the ERA- an ERA that balloons from 3.31 to 4.29 in that short a time? A batting average against that balloons in proportion, as well? Why do you think that is? It sure isn’t because the guy is a loser. It indicates exactly what I said it does-overwork and nothing else. You just can’t negate the rest of the guy’s season OR career, just because you happen not to like him.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Who likes quirky stats? ‘Cause I got one for ya:

The most home runs Johnny Bench hit off one team was 52 against the Atlanta Braves.

The most home runs Brian McCann has hit off one team is 8 against the Cincinnati Reds.

Weird, huh?

By Katz

August 8, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Hudson’s defensive numbers have sharply declined over the past two seasons. His RF9 has declined from about 5.8 to 4.8. Something must be going on to have such a sharp drop. His range must be decreasing.

I don’t like the idea of signing middle infielders who don’t hit for power as free agents. Middle infielders tend to be close to washed up or in decline by the time they hit free agency. Their game on offense and defense is too predicated upon speed and often leads to premature and very sudden declines.

When the legs and the bat slows down due to age thereby decreasing contact, you need to be able to offset that loss in speed and contact skill with good power and a good eye. That’s why you often see middle infielders with modest but not tremendous power like Alomar, Baerga, Vidro, Knoblauch decline so suddenly and prematurely. We are perhaps seeing this now with Renteria.

The same is also sort of true for power guys who take a fair share of walks but K alot like Dunn or Burrell or Andruw or Dale Murphy. I think we are also seeing the beginning of the end for Ryan Howard for this reason. As their legs and bat speed slow, all they are left with is power and walks. And even that declines far more rapidly than it does for a well balanced hitter like Chipper who was blessed by the heavens with his daddy’s genes and coaching to have a great contact, power, speed, eye skill base from which to decline from.

By Serge

August 8, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are going to start Omar Infante every day next year, then were in deep trouble already.

Hes a nice bat off the bench but he aint starter material. Theres a reason why hes a bat off the bench

By dash88

August 8, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Boyer sucks!!! He has 61 appearences too many this season. Bobby has worn him out.

By David-ATL14

August 8, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Sitting here now listening to last night’s game. Love listening to PVW even if it’s a repeat.

Lemke just chimed in during the 8th inning and called Hudson the best glove man in the NL at his position.

Guess he hasn’t got the news yet that Hudson’s equal with the glove actually resides in the Atlanta duguot.

I know, I know Shaun, Lemke is just some dumbass who doesn’t know anything about playing good defense at this level.

If only he knew the ZR and RZR ratings.

LOL!

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Before Jason Bay arrived, the Red Sox were in the midst of their worst stretch of the season, losing five of six at Fenway. Since he took over in left, they’ve done the exact opposite. * MLB.com*

There you go Shaun

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Typcial-as is your need to assess blame rather than suggest solutions.

I have a solution! Just replace Boyer with Stockman. Bam — Problem solved but another one created.

See, Cox doesn’t like using Stockman for some odd reason. So, I think we’ll need to replace him too. And at this point, any one could probably manage better than 4th place, eh?

By Katz

August 8, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Who the hell cares about the won/loss record of a reliever? Mariano Rivera has only had a .500 + record 3 times in the past 8 seasons.

By jtb

August 8, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Jay Blaisdell

The Braves aren’t owned by Time Warner anymore. They’re owned by Liberty Media.

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

The most home runs Johnny Bench hit off one team was 52 against the Atlanta Braves.

McFann ;Ô;

Actually watching the Braves play back in the Johnny Bench era, it seems every MLB player in the N.L. had the same results off of the Braves.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

David-ATL14, all I said is I’m not so sure Hudson is any better than Johnson defensively.

No where in there did I make a definite assertion that Hudson is a worse fielder than Kelly Johnson. He may or may not be. My assertion is simply that the difference between Orlando Hudson and Kelly Johnson defensively at this point in their careers may not be as dramatic as you and others may think.

By the way, I think Brandon Phillips is the best secondbaseman in the league. He’s near the top in pretty much every defensive category.

Doc, yeah, the trade has really worked out (that may be an understatement) for the two contending teams.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

August 8, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Uh.. Stockman is on the DL… Got another suggestion?

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Lew

Boyer never should be used as a set up man.. All he’s good for is pitching in blow outs. That’s my main problem with him.

Now, why can’t Cox see the light? How many games does he have to give away? At what point is this guy sent packing?

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Manny since joining the Dodgers:

5 G —— 20 AB —— 12 H——— 6 R ——— 3 HR —— 7 RBI ——-.600 BA——-.949 OPS —- 2BB——- 2 K

Jason Bay as a Redsox:

6 G —- 26 AB ——- 11 H —— 10 R —— 1 HR —— 6 RBI —-.423 BA —— .907 OPS ——- 3BB ——6K

By Katz

August 8, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Boyer has pitched 10 times in the past 17 days and has a 13.50 ERA in those 10 games. The problem is not Boyer. The problem is Cox. And the problem with Cox is not pitching Boyer, it is pitching Boyer to the point that he is overexposed, overused and abused and can’t help but suck because his arm is dying and he has no life left on the balls he throws.

Would you all be so negative on Boyer and Acosta if Soriano, Moylan and Gonzalez were the ones being abused instead? I tend to think not. Boyer would get regular rest and would be sharp because of it. Boyer has been sharpest on 2 days rest but Cox will keep parading him out there until he gets hammered. Part of being a reliever to be sure is being able to go out there and succeed multiple nights in a row. But Cox has got to learn some lessons on diminishing returns at some point. Abusing relievers the way he does not only hurts performance in the present but hurts performance and injures relievers later as well.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Lee in S GA—

Ha ha, yeah! No kidding…

Obviously, though, that was WAAAAAY before my time.

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Predictions

NLDS:

Cubs over Dodgers

Brewers over Phillies

NLCS:

Cubs over Brewers

ALDS:

Angels over Redsox

Rays over Twins

ALCS:

Angels over Rays

WS:

Angels over Cubs

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Katz, agreed on won-lost record for relievers. most times i prefer to leave it out when reporting a reliever’s stats, unless it’s something really significant, like if a guy’s 5-0 or 0-5, something like that. even then, it’s not usually a telling stat, the way that opponents’ average, WHIP, saves (for a closer) and, yes, even ERA (though not as much ERA; we use that with relievers because it’s so identifiable and understood).

gotta consider the circumstances that a reliever has pitched in. did he enter games with a lot of runners on base, for a good or bad team, did he get wins in games where he actually pitched poorly but his team just scored a lot of runs while he was pitcher of record, etc.

Won-lost record isn’t the best stat for starting pitchers, but certainly not for relievers.

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Katz

I expect Boyer to be DLed before this month ends. And he is a good candidate to join Tim and Peter on the 60 day DL

By timthebrave

August 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

These are the people that should be starting next year. Need another bat but absolutely must get a #1 pitcher 1. 3B Chipper Jones-face of the franchise and still has good years in front of him 1a. Omar Infante is a solid back up in case of injuries and can play multi-positions 2. C Brian Mccann-all star catcher at good price. One of best hitters in game. enough said 3. 2B Kelly Johnson-mainly because of cost and he can only get better 4. SS Escobar-If he stays healthy can be just below all star level. I think injuries have really hurt him. 5. CF Kotsay/Blanco-put the hot bat in and use other as back up(cost efficient) 6. 1B Kotchman/ upgrade or trade-I’m still undecided on this one 7. RF Francouer-no point in trading him now. there is no value in that and he deserves another chance. 8. LF Upgrade-Can have Diaz as back up but need a power hitter to replace Tex

1. Closer- Mike Gonzalez. It’s good to see someone in the bullpen who has that mentality

Starters 1. Upgrade-With Hudson gone we must upgrade 2. JJ-great young arm 3. Campillo-another good young arm 4. Undecided-upgrade or veteran pitcher 5. Morton-If he can control off speed stuff consistently can be great

1. Hudson/Smoltz as back up or midseason upgrade to push towards playoffs

What do ya’ll think?

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson as good a defensive second baseman as Orlando Hudson? Are you kidding?

Shaun, do you actually believe that?

You can cite all the zone-rating stats you’d like. I know what I see, and I know what scouts (and a few players) have told me: Orlando Hudson is a very good defensive 2B, and one of the best overall at the position in baseball.

Not as good defensively as Brandon Phillips, though. I will agree with you on that.

By Katz

August 8, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

If we were to get 2006-2007 Frenchy, I can see management slotting him in the clean up position, Mccann in the 5 hole, KJ in the 6th Casey in at 7.

flange, I don’t see that. Frenchy wasn’t any better than a 6, 7 or 8 hiter in 2006 and 2007. Putting the hitter that Frenchy was in 2006 and 2007 at cleanup would be disastrous for a team’s fortunes. His numbers were decent for a bottom of the order hitter but horrible for a middle of the order hitter. Francoeur should never in his life bat ahead of McCann ever again. Not until he puts up some .350+ OBPs to go with some .525 + SLGs. Francoeur needs to become alot better than he was in 2006 and 2007 if he ever wants to bat in the middle of the order.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The giants announcers came up with Cobra. Kind a cool nickname.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Orlando Hudson is the best fielding second baseman in the game since Roberto Alomar. But I agree with you, he will make 10 million, and that’s too much for a second baseman. He can hit for average but not for power.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Jeff321-Well, like I said, nothing I can say will change your opinion, so I won’t even attempt to reason with you any longer.

If you truly feel that dumping Boyer (or Cox, for that matter) is the only course of action, I would however, suggest you only deal with Fantasy Baseball Leagues. Real baseball will do little but to make you p!$$ed, frustrated and totally confound your sensibilities, always searching for a “loser” to scapegoat.

By Serge

August 8, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

“i know what i see”

and yet that can be inquisitively flawed. We see what we want to see. Scouts told Frank Wren after three days that Jeff Franceour was “fixed” and weve seen that scouts were wrong and Franceour is still having one of the worst seasons in the history of Atlanta Braves baseball. An abysmall season that makes Andruw Jones of 07 look like an All star.

This is why statistics are valuable. Kelly Johnson might not be as good as Orlando Hudson but he is not a “poor” defender at seccond in fact hes a good defender. Above average, rated in the top ten actually

Go check out Bill James Online and his plus minus numbers you might be suprised Mister Obrien.

By Katz

August 8, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

I expect Boyer to be DLed before this month ends. And he is a good candidate to join Tim and Peter on the 60 day DL

I think you are getting a bit carried away saying that Boyer will end up on the 60 day DL when he has not complained about his arm this year. I think he is being abused like Soriano and Moylan were last year. I don’t like it. I am afraid he will be hurt next year because of it. But jumping to the DL by the end of the month and 60 day DL presumption is a bit much. Dude just needs some rest kind of like when Acosta and Ascanio and Mahay and Moylan rode in and rescued Soriano last year when he went through a similar six week spell at the same time of the year.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Doc, why does it matter what Manny’s done compared to Bay since the trade? Instead, why don’t you look at what Manny was doing with the Red Sox in weeks before he was traded?

If the Sox had believed he would actually hustle and, you know, try to win, they’d have kept him. But he was doing neither in his final weeks with them. He was jaking it, and if you watch the video of him in those final games with the Sox and don’t concur with that, you’re delusional.

By THB

August 8, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

I think that organizations can become attached to players just like fans do. It’s clear who McFann is attached to, it’s clear Shaun likes KJ a lot. I guess my point is that I think the Braves organization has not been run like a business in the past and since they’ve dealt with some adversity (Losing, slumps-Frenchy and AJ), they haven’t had a direct path. They dealt with Andruw too long-but that was a really tough call. He had 10 incredible years. But with Frenchy, he had 1 and 1/2 good years and they were reluctant to do anything about it-and understandibly so. But then they decide to send him down and call him up a few days later. That I don’t understand.

It seems like the Braves feel they have a solid nucleus in Escobar, Johnson, Mac, Frenchy, and now Kotchman. The fact is that they haven’t gotten any better and if Wren saying our infield is set is a premature statement. If we could deal KJ and others and get an ace like Halladay, Oswalt, or an up and coming ace like Cain or Greinke, then I’d say you do it-to make the team better. I would say it is easier to replace a 2B than an ace. We could sign Milton Bradley to play LF (Just an option, also Burell or Dunn), then we still have money left over to sign a veteran like Derek Lowe and trade for a 2B (We’re not signing Hudson. But what if we traded for Brandon Phillips? He’d cost a bit, but he’s young, cheap, good, and from ATL). If we had an offseason like that, I bet you most of the fans and the organization would be excited about the 09 Braves, even if it meant trading away part of the nucleus.

Sorry for the long post.

By Bubdylan

August 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien. If you go looking for any lyrics to honor Blaine Boyer, try Bill Withers.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

DOB and others, all I said was that I’m not sure Hudson is all that much better a defender than Kelly Johnson…not at this point in their careers. Hudson quite possibly is the better secondbaseman. All I’m saying is the difference between the two may not be as dramatic as some think at this point in their careers.

Hudson has made 9 errors to Johnson’s 11 with virtually an equal number of total chances.

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

I told ya Shaun is actually KJ himself, aint that a fact?

Thats why he blogs with us in the morning and not at game time……….

Thanks for sharing some of your time with us Shaun/KJ, but please, better go catch some groundballs pal, Hubbard is waiting for you, put your glove, talk to you later.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Also, is Hudson the fielder he once was. His past credentials don’t necessarily mean he’s one of the best fielding secondbasemen in 2008.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Tomas, Hudson’s average/OBP/.545 in past three seasons, from .287/.354/.545 in 2006, .294/.376/.441 in 2007, and .307/.369/.454 so far this season.

He had 62 doubles, 18 triples and 25 homers and 130 RBI in the past two seasons (2006-2007) and is going to hit 10 or more homers this season for the sixth consecutive year.

That’s not good enough offensively for you from a guy who’s won three straight Gold Gloves (2005-07)?

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

If we could deal KJ and others and get an ace like Halladay, Oswalt, or an up and coming ace like Cain or Greinke, then I’d say you do it-to make the team better.

I think that is the point many people here are trying to make. While I agree that many fans start cheering for the name on the back of the jersey, I still believe most here want what’s best for the name on the front.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 8, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Charlie Morton has an opportunity to make Frank Wren’s life a little easier this winter. I’m not saying Charlie should be considered a top-of-the-rotation starter for 2009 (he may never be), but continued improvement and consistency the rest of this year and in the spring could make him a solid #3 behind JJ and Campillo.

Still means you need another starter, even if JoJo progresses/a healthy Lerew is effective/Hanson matures more quickly than expected/Smoltz miraculously recovers/Chuckie shocks us all.

But the desperation that a week or so ago some were expressing (and I bought into just a bit) seems awfully premature.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Timthebrave 2. C Brian Mccann-all star catcher at good price. One of best hitters in game. enough said

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

DOB—

Ah, yes! It’s a nice 84° here in today! 43% humidity, ever so slight breeze…prob’ly a lot like Fall in Arizona, right?

By Lew

August 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

DOB-Dude, I know with the hectic travel schedule you’ve had this week, that this topic was probably not foremost in your thoughts, but I think we could use some of your expert clarification. What exactly is Campillo’s contract status for next year?

I know many believe since time of ML service wise he is a rookie, that this automatically makes him under Braves control for a few more years. However, all I can find says he has been a free agent at least twice. It is my understanding that once a FA, the box has been opened and will not shut or revert to the norm. What’s the case with Jorge? Inquiring Denizens’ Minds want to know-or at least I do.

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

I was not trying to make any point. I was just bringing the information up. So people could check on it.

My opinion is, it has been good for both teams. Great deal for both. And many is showing he was not great because he was in Boston………he is an offensive monster. Unstoppable.

In the other hand, Bay has showed he is not being intimidated by the big stage.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Doc, also the comparisons you give are Manny’s batting to Bay’s batting. While I believe batting is by far the way that everyday players most impact the game, I still think Bay is better at literally every other aspect of the game. So his value to the Red Sox does not show up in merely the batting stats.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

flange1 But could the manager handle that kind of game?

it would take alot of hit and run, stealing bases at just the right moments, stuff like that…and i think cox CAN handle that…im not so sure he would. he would probably try to play it station to station for the most part, like he does more often than not…and it wouldnt work as well.

but, we had teams kinda like this in the early 90s didnt we? they stole bases, advanced runners, and didnt hit a TON of homers…so bobby has managed that way before.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

THB It’s clear who McFann is attached to

Well, I’ve tried to be subtle…

8 )

By MiamiBchBravesFan

August 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

I am sure that someone has already thought of this - it’s so obvious - but just in case.

Instead of having Chuck James as a starter, would it not make better sense to have either Jeff Bennett or Buddy Carlyle take his spot in the rotation? I mean, James still does not have a third pitch, and where he used to get to five, maybe six innings, now he can’t even get to the fourth. He’d be a better long reliever; certainly, Bennett or Carlyle cannot do worse than James as starters.

As far as Kelly Johnson? Unless Glenn Hubbard can make a miracle happen this winter, Johnson should think about a return to LF; he stinks as a second baseman.

After last night, the new Royce Ring is Blaine Boyer - what a stiff!

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Hudson has made 9 errors to Johnson’s 11 with virtually an equal number of total chances.

Does Hudson’s errors help lead the team to defeat as Johnsons’ do? I know I know “the dropped catch” but it seems like every time Johnson has a fielding error it has sealed the Braves fate that game. Losing in otherwords.

By Serge

August 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Campillo is under control for 5 more years at cheap cost. No sense in dealing him unless you get somehow overwhelmed

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

That’s not good enough offensively for you from a guy who’s won three straight Gold Gloves (2005-07)?

1. Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove when he mostly was a DH.

2. What do past Gold Gloves have to do with whether he’s a great fielder in 2008? Willie Mays is certainly no longer a great fielder.

Based on everything I see, Hudson is not the fielder he once was. And if he is better than Johnson, he’s not as dramatically better as some think.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

steve from OH

thanks for that link yesterday. I will definitely take a look at it. Didn’t mean to sound sour about the stats, but I was just about to leave for the night and looked like you “trumped me”, for all that I could tell without looking at the stats & seeing what the formulas account for. Thanks again.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

DELAYED (and I feel kinda dumb about it, but hey, that “builds character”, right?)

BayAreaSteve—

Were you referring to my 8:13 post:

“Just…not…fair…”?

By Bay Area Steve

August 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Attagirl, McFann.

think scoots’ “just…won’t…die”

By Saltywoody

August 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

On Greg Norton

I’ll probably get lanced for writing this, but I’ve actually been pretty happy with the guy. His average is not stellar and he’s not the kind of defensive replacement Infante is. But, that said, he seems to be a great bat off the bench. He’s gotten quite a few pretty big hits when it’s counted.

Just curious what everyone else thinks about him. I’d like to see him stick around next year. He and Diaz/Infante are two good pinch-hitting sticks coming off the bench.

Oh, and “The Cobra” is the sweetest nickname I’ve heard in a long time. Like DOB said, as long as the dude’s dealing, it works.

Out of curiosity, I notice Gonzo was throwing right around 91-92 the other night, 93 when he looked like he really dialed it up. Do we expect his velocity to be higher than that at the end of this year/beginning of next? Or is that permanently how fast he’s going to throw now?

By Efrim

August 8, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

For 10 million a year for 4-5 years, some people want Orlando Hudson on this team? Will Kelly Johnson make 10 million in the next three seasons? Of course you could trade KJ and sign Orlando, but I think their are greater needs. Not too sure Kelly could bring back all that we desire anyway.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

THB-Dude, Kelly Johnson has not been the reason for the Braves’ woes this year-it has been Chipper and Yunel missing considerable time, pitching injuries and an almost total lack of outfield production-especially in power areas.

Now, I do realize that KJ could be an integral part of a deal to improve the team, but if Frank Wren chooses to go with our current infield, what’s wrong with him saying it’s set? There are certainly other directions (Free Agency since we now have some $$$, or trades of other players like Francoeur, as well as prospects from our farm system) that could be utilized without even shaking up the infield, which is not as bad as what some here think.

AS for picking up on Oswalt-Have you perhaps noticed he’s been hurt this year and not having all that great a season? Do we need more injury problems-especially from someone making his salary? What we need is innings eaters, not more disabled list Denizens

Don’t understand why you think there has been no plan, though. Picking up Jair Jurrjens for Renteria and letting Yunel play full time, as well as picking up Ohman and Infante for a minor league pitcher seems pretty damned astute to my way of thinking-quite a beginning for The House Wren’s tenure.

Dude, injuries (an inordinate amount this year) and the necessity of relying on Former great players due to TW’s salary reductions, as well as Frenchy’s disappearing bat have caused our current difficulties-NOT lack of a coherent plan. If at the end of this winter, nothing has been accomplished with the $40 or so mil we will have coming off of the books, THEN you might speak correctly of wayward plans of action. Until then, I’ve got to disagree with you.

By Steve from OH

August 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox

Not a problem, dude. Thanks for keeping an open mind.

By THB

August 8, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

McFann-I know, you’ve done well with it. I had to really dig through all your posts to find out.

:-)

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

MiamiBchBravesFan: I’m curious, what has Jeff Bennett done in the past, oh, two months to make you believe he’s a good option for a start?

You’re not the only one on the blog who’s sung his praises, and I just wonder why he doesn’t seem to get as much criticism as others who’ve struggled.

Since June 7, Bennett has pitched in 17 games and allowed 28 hits, 15 earned runs and 12 walks in 19 innings over that span, for a 7.11 ERA and .368 opponents’ average. Not to mention all the inherited runners he’s allowed lately.

His last start was a June 11 nightmare vs. Chicago: Two innings, seven runs, seven hits. Even Chuck hasn’t had one that bad, if I’m not mistaken.

And even if you throw that game out, in his 17 appearances since then Bennett has allowed 19 hits and nine walks with eight strikeouts in 16 innings, with a .322 opponents’ average.

So let’s call a spade a spade and quit acting like Bennett has pitched well.

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

McFann ;Ô;

What did you think of that pick off attempt at first base by McCann last night? Looks to me like his arm is ready for action! And don’t mind him getting doubled off, Tracy made a good play on that liner.

Funny thing, I was watching the FSN Arizona feed last night.. And I think it was Mark Grace reading the lineup. He basically says about McCann, “That guy can plain hit!”

By DAP

August 8, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

THB trading for phillips wouldnt be to bad of an idea…his OBP is lower than kelly’s but he got great power, and he is my absolute favorite defensive 2nd baseman to watch. ever since 2006 when he came to the NL, ive loved to watch him. id take BP over KJ.

but cincy just signed phillips to a long term deal, and im not sure they will consider moving him. i guess they need pitching…so trading them KJ and a ML pither like jojo is probably what it would take, if they would even consider it.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Here is a pretty comprehensive stat page of fielding statistics for secondbasemen. And I seriously doubt there is some sort of conspiracy there to make Orlando Hudson look not so great. But maybe so.

I’ll take Brandon Phillips over anybody defensively.

By bgvt

August 8, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

On defensive stats: they depend a lot on the type of pitching staff.

As a team, Arizona has struck out 867 batters (Randy Johnson???) to the Braves striking out 748. Hudson can’t field balls not put in play. Since range factors are basically outs recorded per inning played, this matters for comparing players.

MLB.com didn’t have the team level Ground out/Air out ratios, so I accumulated the top five pitchers by innings pitched on each team. Arizona has a GO/AO of 1.24 (despite having Webb throwing all sorts of ground balls — Johnson and Owings are fly ball pitchers); Atlanta has a GO/AO of 1.59.

Taken together, these stats suggest that Hudson’s range being close to Kelly’s might come from differences in the pitching staffs. Hudson’s declining range factor coincides with Randy Johnson and Micah Owings pitching for the D’backs — hmmm. So, has he gotten worse or do pitching staff differences tell the whole story?

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Any news on how Tims surgery went???

It was scheduled for today, right?

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

I just do not understand your infatuation with Prado. He is and will continue to be a utility man. He will never be a regular for the Braves.

On a team with a power problem you want to put a guy in as a starter who will not hit 5 HR’s in 600 plate appearances. He is what he is - a utility man. Keylargo

just let my bromance continue won’t ya?

Interesting stat while reading yahoo the other day: runs created. Googling runs created, there’s some pretty advance formulas, but Yahoo used a simple (R + RBI) / PA.

Anyway, for what it’s worth, KJ’s was .240 (104/437), and Prado’s is .312 (29/93). The top 10 in baseball ranged from the .369 to .338.

keylargo, I disagree with you. In 600 PA, i bet Prado hits 7-9 HR. And why limit power to just HR? Kid hits a lot of extra bases and gappers. As far as defense, i doubt a major leaguer is scared of the baseball, especially a kid who had a .995 fielding % in 87 games in AAA last year. I’ve seen Jeter turn away from hot shots. Does that make him scared of the ball?

Look, this conversation started yesterday about me saying the braves could trade KJ if they get something good for him. They’re loaded at 2nd base and have a lot of holes to fill. You may be right that Prado never becomes more than an utility guy since cox won’t play him, but i see a kid who has a damn good eye (better walk rate & k rate than KJ, and higher contact % too), keeps his hands behind the ball, and hits 70% of the pitches he sees up the middle or to the right side. I don’t see how he would be worse than KJ. I really don’t.

By Random

August 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

McFann ;Ô;: “The most home runs Johnny Bench hit off one team was 52 against the Atlanta Braves… . The most home runs Brian McCann has hit off one team is 8 against the Cincinnati Reds.”

That’s just because McCann never gets the opportunuity to get fat hitting Braves pitching.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Serge-I don’t want to trade Campillo, I want him signed for a couple more years. I know the guy only has one full ML season under his belt (well, two now), but the Mariners signed him as a Free Agent and so did the Braves. I don’t think normal rules apply after a player has been admitted to Free Agency-no matter what the length of ML Service.

Nothing would be better to my way of thinking than having him under control for four more years, but I don’t think this is automatically the case, or that it is the case for Campillo-not to mention the fact he was originally signed these many years past as an undrafted Minor League Free Agent.

I don’t know the ins and outs of the rules applicable to this particular situation, but I believe Free Agency negates the rules.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Interesting stat while reading yahoo the other day: runs created. Googling runs created, there’s some pretty advance formulas, but Yahoo used a simple (R + RBI) / PA.

I hope you’re kidding. Runs and RBI greatly depend on other players.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

shaun What do past Gold Gloves have to do with whether he’s a great fielder in 2008? Willie Mays is certainly no longer a great fielder.

your point is a good one, but your example is stupid.

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun could you also send me something that says Bay is way better than Manny defensively, cause all I see is that Bay has a .784 ZR and Manny has .740, but manny has a RF of 1.77 and Bay has 1.74. Thats for 2008. Plus many has a .991 F% while Bay has a .984.

By Lew

August 8, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

DOB-Maybe I missed it, but what is Soriano’s status ? Any indication of what the MRI at Dr. Andrew’s clininc turned up (or not)?

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Doc: Braves won’t get to ballpark here for another three hours or so (it’s 11:15 a.m. here). I wouldn’t anticipate an announcement about Hudson’s surgery before then.

And then you’re going to hear — count on it — Hudson’s surgery went well. That’s it. The next time they come out of surgery and say, it didn’t go as well as we hoped, will be the first time that any surgeon announced that after one of these arm surgeries.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

bgvt, very true about range factor. But we wouldn’t expect pitching to affect revised zone rating or fielding percentage. Also if players have equal numbers of total chances and are only separated by three errors, I doubt pitching has too much to do with that.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

lew wasnt campillo sign as a minor league free agent? i think that makes it different…maybe not.

By Lee in S GA

August 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody

Omar Infante, Greg Norton and Diaz are a step above many other bench players the Braves have had in recent years. No need to mention certain names. I also like Sammons as a back-up catcher. I think the Braves may be set in that area.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Bay Area Steve—

OK…That’s…what I…figured…

: J

THB—

Thanks. But maybe I should be a little more clear, just so no one else will have to do that much digging.

; >

Jeff321—

Shoot! I musta been in bed when he made that attempt! Dang these late night games! (But I have seen three great throws from him this week. He is lookin’ good there!)

The play where he got doubled-up doesn’t bother me too much, seein’ as how they still won the game. Those plays tend to make me madder when they lose.

Glad to hear that “Gracie” tossed him a complement. He wasn’t too bad when he did that Braves/D-backs game on FOX earlier this year.

Random—

Yeah, and let’s hope he never gets that opportunity!

By Gil In Mechanicsville

August 8, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

On Blaine Boyer, let’s be fair folks, you just cannot blame a kid for being less than stellar when you keep running him out there everyday. At some point the old “tired arm syndrome” rears its ugly head. After all, isn’t that the definition of stupidity, to do the same thing over and over and expect different results? The Braves burned out their bullpen early in the season.

I like and respect Bobby Cox but someone needs to tell him that you cannot just run a pitcher out there every game without running the risk of having his arm fall off.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, well, according to Hardball Times Bay’s RZR is .864 while Manny’s is .817.

By McFann ;Ô;

August 8, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Braves won’t get to ballpark here for another three hours or so (it’s 11:15 a.m. here).

So do they usually arrive about 5 hours before game time?

I’ve always wondered what the time-table for that was…I have no idea why.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Lew, no, you didn’t miss it. Soriano had MRI yesterday, but Andrews didn’t have a report for Braves as of midnight last night. It was coming today.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I accidentally severed Hudson’s arm from the shoulder down. Sorry. Not a good surgery. Don’t know why but I just couldn’t concentrate.

Soriano? Not good news. The MRI revealed that Soriano’s head is making him believe his arm hurts. The MRI also revealed Soriano is a pain in Bobby’s a@@.

And don’t tell Smoltz but his labrum was fine. Just had to borrow some limbs from Smoltzie to put inside Hamptonstein so we could finally get him on the mound.

By Dr. Andrews Assistant

August 8, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I would like to announce that the operation on Tim Hudson’s right shoulder went extremely well today.

He should be ready to begin rehabilitation in 2-3 months, and should be ready to resume throwing by the All-Star break next year.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Well, if Gonzo is the Cobra, is Jeff Francoeur the Rattled Snake? Sounded rattled and like a snake more worried about himself than the team when he was farmed out to the minors.

By BT

August 8, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

For two days following Skip’s death Lew graciously offered to send to any of DOB’s bloggers a print of a painting of Skip and “the slide.” I just received mine and wanted to thank Lew publicly. If you have not visited his online art gallery it is http://www.lewhartman.com/. DOB I hope that is not too much of a commercial but Lew deserves our thanks.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

shaun

by saying “for what it’s worth” i think you’d get the hint that i don’t put too much emphasis on that stat.

However, if you’ve read my posts all year, which i know you have, you’d probably seen me post that this offense has a chemistry issue. You know, everyone feasts or famines together. And if you want to blame it on injuries this year, then why was it the same last year too?

Why KJ is certainly a mediocre, avg player (currently), as determined by this thread, he is certainly not a difference maker in the lineup. In Prado’s limited starts, the team scores 3 runs per game more than when he doesn’t. I know it’s limited to 15 games, but you’d think that stat would grant him more playing time with the season being over, especially when he’s hitting over .320 in those starts. It could be a fluke, it could be his 90% contact %, his greater walk rate than KJ, his lesser K rate %, whatever, but it’s worth a look.

If Bobby Cox used to say, “for some reason the team plays well when he plays” in the past, then why has he negated that reasoning for this season? For a kid that’s put up awesome spring numbers the last 2 years, awesome Richmond numbers, and proportional #’s to KJ this year, why not give the kid a shot instead of labeling him just a “utility guy”. That bothers me as a baseball fan and an atlanta brave fan. And it’s not just prado. It has bothered me with Devine, Anderson, etc…

Agree to disagree. That’s what baseball talk is all about.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

McFann, it varies widely, and I mean really widely.

Some days, Cox and a coach or two will be there at noon for a 7 p.m. game. Some players will get there not long after, though most usually seem to arrive around 2:30-3:30 p.m.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

One more time on Campillo: he’s under Braves control, and cheap for a couple more years, then affordable for at least a year or two beyond that. Not eligible for arbitration until after the 2010 season.

By Jeff321

August 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Mark Grace was also talking about Boyer being in there “every day.” He had quite a few funny lines throughout the telecast.. But, I can’t remember them all.

paraphrase - “Bobby’s going to yank Boyer now so he’ll be able to pitch tomorrow.”

By Jim Fowler

August 8, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Well, if Gonzo is the Cobra, is Jeff Francoeur the Rattled Snake?

He does strike outward a lot.

By MGL

August 8, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Oops, looks like quality of play on the old blog is similar to the Braves as of late. Shaun just scored an error on the Hudson play.

By BravesFanInRockies

August 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

BTW, folks, Brian Giles chose to not waive his no-trade clause. He’s staying with the Pads for “family reasons.”

I guess if you’re playing in your home town and near the end of your career … ?

Still, you’d have to wonder why he wouldn’t jump at the chance to play for a WS contender, even if it’s in a limited role, rather than a team that’s going nowhere for awhile.

Go figure.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s, I’m guessing the Braves are wisely comparing Johnson and Prado’s entire careers at the pro level and determining Johnson is the better player rather than looking at the relative few games Prado has started this season and assuming it means something larger.

I don’t think it’s that they are labeling Prado a utility guy, per se. I think they just view him as not quite as good as the guys they have starting in the infield. I would guess there are people within the organization who believe Prado could do an adequate job starting for a lot of major league teams.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Please, please stop with Martin Prado. Please. Prado is not great defensively. If he was, he’d be a true utility man and play backup short. Because he is so limited defensively, he can not be trusted to backup short. Woodward is trusted to back up short but Prado isn’t. That right there should tell you something about Prado’s D. In fact, because Prado is so limited, the Braves had to use Woodward last year. Now look at his offense. Decent average. Not great average. Little pop. Limited eye. Not fast. Not a great arm. Average at best range. Why the hell is anyone in love with Prado? At his peak, Prado is a marginal starter on the worst teams, a utility man on a middle rung team, and in the minors on a contender.

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Glad to see that the conversation came back around to Brandon Phillips.

Would love to have him in Atlanta. He’s just fun to watch.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, any news on which players the Braves may call up in September? Or is that stuff that no one talks about?

By Doc Holliday

August 8, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sure it aint that big of a surgery. Think my question should have been…….did they perform it?

I got your point.

By tyyosh

August 8, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

About Boyer, no one has mentioned the big development last night - for the first time (I think), he broke out a new nasty 85mph change up a couple of times. His problem is not pitch speed (fastball is still 95), it’s location IMHO and having no change of speed other than that big curve. If he can refine that change and make it a viable pitch (he stopped throwing it as soon as trouble started), he has a chance to get better. They were hitting his fastballs up, but his change down was quite good.

And Shaun, I always respect your stats, but I watch most of the games and you cannot help but notice that Kelly bobbles or loses the handle on balls more than anyone else. What we see is opportunities lost, not stats - a double play missed, a difficult grounder not fielded - subtle things that stick in the minds of people and weaken their confidence. Joe Simpson (who has the mind of a player) is very emphatic about Kelly’s misplays when they happen - no sugarcoating it at all.

By Thrillhouse44

August 8, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, from what I heard, Giles has an 8 team no-trade clause. The Red Sox were one of those 8 teams. So, for whatever reason, he doesn’t want to play in Boston. I’m like you though, I’d rather play for a winner in the hunt than stick around with a team that tried to trade me.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

if he ever gets that shot, with this team or another, it will be interesting to see how he did. A lot of fans on here like to follow ex-braves around.

In any situation, i’m never afraid to admit when i’m wrong. For all the grief i’ve put you all through, i’ll be glad to admit it later on, but i don’t think anyone can assume he’ll never be a .300/.340/.430 hitter with a .990 fielding % like I think he’ll be if he’s not given a shot, especially after extensively watching his ABs and looking at past stats.

If KJ reaches the level you all think he’ll be (.300, 20 HR, .985 fielding %, cuts down on his month-long slumps), then i’ll admit i was wrong also. Waiting 2 years for a guy to progress is tiresome, especially after having to watch our RF and seeing the team play the same over 2 years. Over time, I wanna see some new faces that i’ve followed for years who’ve developed through our farm system.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Yes, they are supposed to be performing it as we speak. Unless something unexpected happened, don’t know why they wouldn’t have…

Shaun, they don’t say who the callups will be, because they don’t want anyone who is or isn’t to be called up playing and behaving any differently than they normally would in August. Plus, if someone gets hurt and they call up someone else in his place, why would you want the other guy to think he’s only coming up because someone got hurt? Just nothing at all to be gained, from club’s perspective, from announcing now, or even talking about now, who might be called up in September.

Wren made it clear they’re going to take a look at some guys, and that’s, I’m pretty sure, where they’ll leave it for now, until they bring guys up.

By Thrillhouse44

August 8, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

And then you’re going to hear — count on it — Hudson’s surgery went well. DOB

I’d bet money they use the term “success”. It’s almost as sure of a thing as Francouer bashing on the ole MIB/BBQ blog.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Gonzales leads the braves with 5 saves.

It took the braves 115 games to get a 5 saves guy.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

brent a., I don’t know about Brandon Phillips. His career OBP is .310. His career slugging at Great American is .473 versus. His career road slugging is .416. Overall it’s .427.

By ccrider

August 8, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

PLEASE SHAUN AND ALL OTHERS: The GM’s ,Scouts , Managers, Coaches and other evaluators of major league Talent PUT NO BELIEF in your Fielding Metrics. Even the people that created these very flawed stats consider them a general guieline , NOT FACT. The people on the inside of MLB watch, examine and evaluate what they see, not what some geek with a computer as deemed the benchmark for fielding greatness! The difference is truly in the eye of the beholder and they are the ones that have played, coached and managed at this level. SO ENOUGH with who is better according to BOB GEEKSTER, the science club president in high school and creator of HALO 12. I REPEAT THIS IS NOT FANTASY BASEBALL! By the way Shaun, this is not a slam at you, I Believe, we are actually neighbors. I have 3 children that have graduated from Henry County Schools and I believe you said a year ago you lived in the Eagles Landing Area. I’m just exhausted with the neverending stats debate. People need to watch the game and the players faces that will usually tell you how a player is performing and what kind of confidence his teammates have in him!

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Brandon Phillips is still fun to watch play.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, yeah. Makes sense. Would be kind of silly to let a player get a big head, etc. Should have thought before I asked that dumb question…or is there no such thing as a dumb question?

Thrillhouse44 and BravesFanInRockies, maybe Giles realizes there is a decent chance he’d be mostly a bench player in Boston. If Ortiz isn’t injured, that’s probably what he’d be relegated to mostly. Just a thought that may factor in.

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Brandon Phillips is still fun to watch play. That’s all I said.

Yet, somehow I knew that you would come along and provide some stats to tell us that he isn’t as much fun to watch as we think he is.

I know, Shaun, our eyes are deceiving us.

By Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo

August 8, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

The problem is not Boyer. The problem is Cox.

Yes. Bobby Cox was the one who turned Blaine Boyer into a big tub of goo.

At gunpoint, he forced Boyer back into the buffet line. Again and again and again.

By David-ATL14

August 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Need to apologize from earlier, a bad morning and the blog would be better served without the assinine comment form me earlier.

So my bad shaun. I still contend that Hudson is one of the two best gloves in the NL at his position.

Kelly while a nice bat and low salary is much closer to the bottom 2-3 gloves at his position.

To imply they are close just doesn’t fly.

By Who's this Prado Guy?

August 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do you ever talk to this prado kid? Is he a nice guy?

There’s certainly a lot of talk & infatuation about this guy on the blog, but I never see you mention discussions you’ve had with him.

You recently posted a conversation you had with Infante. Do you ever talk to Prado, how he feels in a reserve role, would he want to start, etc?

I look forward to your response. I’m sure others would too.

By Dr. Ames Jandrews, Tire and Lube Specialist

August 8, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, Tim Hudson’s surgery went very smoothly. We don’t think there will be any long term effects. After some rest, we’ll get started on his rehab and then some strengthening exercises so that left arm will be ready in a year. What? We were supposed to be operating on his RIGHT arm? Hmm. That is a problem. OK, boys, get him back up on the lift, and we’ll rotate his tires for free, too. We’ve got a bad set of brakes at 2 p.m., an ignition/starter replacement at 3 and then a set of labrum repairs at 4, with a patella tendon operation at 4:30, so we maybe can squeeze Tim in at 3:30.

By I was a teenage Francophile

August 8, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

People need to watch the game and the players faces that will usually tell you how a player is performing…

By that measure, Frenchy is performing rather smuggishly.

By Bay Area Steve

August 8, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

ccrider’s 3:26 = blasphemy

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

ccrider, oh, I guarantee you plenty of front offices use advanced fielding metrics.

Here is something from SI.com from 2006:

“If one had exact information on every batted ball,” said Mitchel Lichtman, a consulting statistical analyst for the St. Louis Cardinals, “then one should easily be able to say at what rate an average fielder would have turned any given ball into an out, given its exact characteristics, and compare that to whether a fielder actually did or did not turn a ball into an out. That is essentially the ‘Holy Grail’ of defensive metrics, and is really quite simple.”

Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), devised by Lichtman, is considered by many in this pursuit to be as close to a Grail-safe system as baseball has seen. To some extent, it is a victim of its own success — it led to the Cardinals hiring Lichtman, and removing his data from publication — and the mechanics of the system are complicated enough to defy easy imitation.

You can bet if the St. Louis Cardinals are using such metrics, other teams are.

By Tomas

August 8, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

DOB, I like Orlando Hudson, I just don’t see the braves paying a second baseman 10 million per year, specially when they have three capable second baseman within the organization. Kelly Johnson, Omar Infante, and Martin Prado. And I know he can hit homeruns, i’m just saying that he is a line drive type hitter, and hasn’t hit more than 15 homeruns per season. But you’re right his defense is oustanding, and he hits for average. But they still need a power bat to play left or center field, there are two options, move Kelly to left, or trade him and get a stud to play left. I like Kelly, and I still think he is a 20-25 homer guy.

By TommyP

August 8, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Been relocating and all that goes with that the past few weeks so haven’t been able to comment much. Skip’s passing also was a downer and there wasn’t much more I could say after all the great stories, comments made by everyone.

Gotta agree with those saying, “No way” on the Hudson idea. Too much money….WAY too much money for him. Kelly is cheap and I still feel hasn’t reached his ceiling.

Someone mentioned Infante as our LF next year? What? You gotta be kidding me.

Keep him as a super utility guy. He’s doing well in that role. No way he becomes a regular for us unless a major injury occurs.

Would love to see Brandon Jones out there about now. What’s the delay?????????? Are we afraid of benching one of our “powerful” OF bats? Afraid of bringing the trade value down of one of our mainstays? LOL

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

brent a., didn’t say Phillips isn’t fun to watch. Just don’t know if I’d want him playing for the Braves.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

ccrider

nice post at 3:26. I agree, and have posted before, stats aren’t everything….much like trying to find the impact of Tex’s abundant stats while watching him everyday.

shaun,

Looks like you kinda posted the same thing at 2:58. That was a fair assessment, and I agree with that.

It’s interesting to say, of the few times i agree with you, it’s usually your posts that don’t contain stats.

By Shaun

August 8, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

brent a., didn’t say Phillips isn’t fun to watch. Just don’t know if I’d want him playing for the Braves.

Sometimes what wins baseball games is pretty boring to watch.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

I know, Shaun, our eyes are deceiving us.

The beer goggles of Joe Six Pack can never match the bifocaled myopia of Spreadsheet Steve.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

nypost

A MAN was arrested Monday, charged with making terrorist-like threats after flashing a throat-slash gesture to a man at the defendant’s table in a New Jersey municipal courtroom.

Which brings us to Ken Griffey Jr.

Griffey has often demonstrated that he’s not much for running to first or toward balls hit in his direction. But he is given to swift responses to those who note his hard-to-ignore indifference. That’s why he and Reds’ Hall of Fame broadcaster Marty Brennaman got into it, big time, in 2000.

Before Griffey’s trade last week to the White Sox, he concluded a home run trot with a throat-slashing gesture toward Reds’ broadcaster Jeff Brantley. The ex-ESPN analyst and Reds’ pitcher had suggested that Griffey hadn’t tried to catch a fly he should have caught.

After Griffey’s public gesture, the two chatted in private. Though Griffey wouldn’t discuss their meeting, Brantley, asked by the Cincinnati Enquirer whether the issue was resolved, said, “No. How can it be when someone gives you a death signal?”

A slit-yer-throat sign issued by a big leaguer during a big league game is worthy of a suspension and stern official condemnation. But if Commissioner Bud Selig didn’t think Manny Ramirez’s shove to the floor of the Red Sox’s 64-year-old traveling secretary - Ramirez was upset when Jack McCormick told him it would be difficult to get him 16 tickets to that night’s sold out road game - was worth a suspension, why would Griffey sweat one?

But that’s just Bud being Bud. Selig long ago set the precedent - if it isn’t about team owners’ bottom-line business, it’s none of his business.

By BL

August 8, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

SaltyWoody Francoeur was more upset with the way the situation was handled when he got sent down. If I had been an everyday player for 2 1/2 years a sudden, 5 minute post game meeting with front office telling me to pack up wouldn’t have cut it either.

By DAP

August 8, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Sometimes what wins baseball games is pretty boring to watch.

not if you like baseball.

By Dr. Blames Andruws

August 8, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Ernie Johnson, Jr.:

“We’’ve been thinking a lot about Skip Caray these days. He died Sunday at the age of 68. Tough times for all of us here at Turner Sports as we remember Skip. He did Braves games for 33 seasons and if you ever watched him on TBS, you knew that here’’s what you were going to get: He would be witty, he would be down right funny, he could be grumpy, sometimes all in the same half inning. He was Harry Caray’’s son, yet he was his own man and he was a broadcast original. My father worked with him for 20 to 25 years so I got a chance to know Skip Caray as more than a broadcaster, I knew him as a devoted father and husband and I know his two sons, Josh and Chip, followed in his footsteps and took the same career path. I also know that on Monday they will be gratified, as will his widow, Paula, to see the number of people who turn out in Atlanta for a memorial service to remember Skip Caray. It will be a bunch of fans for whom the game will never be quite the same because a one-of-a-kind voice has fallen silent.”

By Coach (Somewhere, Leo is laughing)

August 8, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett pitched well during the end of the 2007 season, was outstanding during winter ball, got two starts in spring training and was banished to the bullpen.

Now, Bennett is just another sore armed relief pitcher who could have been a decent fifth starter.

Cox doesn’t, never did and never will have one damn clue how to manage his pitching staff. The 2008 bullpen is on pace for 526.5 innings and will surpass the 500 inning barrier for the third straight year. Leo let that happen once in sixteen years. Blaine Boyer has made 62 appearances, Will Ohman has 60.

I mean, C’mon already.

Mike Gonzalez, T.J. surgery.

Peter Moylan, T.J. Surgery.

Tim Hudson T.J. Surgery.

Rafael Soriano, about to have T.J. surgery, again.

By Bobby's Cox

August 8, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun

thanks for that 3:45 post. It holds some merit.

The cardinals rank #1 in baseball with a .988 fielding %.

They have the 2nd fewest errors in baseball with 55 (Houston has 54).

Hope they’re paying Litchman well.

By TennesseePaul

August 8, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Payne: Orlando Hudson will be 31 next season and he’s basically been a league average hitter his entire career. And I’m not sure he’s any better defensively than Kelly Johnson. Throw in the fact that he’s surely to make at least his $6.25 million salary from 2008 and no way the Braves even consider him.

I know I’m late to this. I don’t know if anyone else brought up the point I’m going to attempt to make but here it goes.
First, I think Hudson is a better defender than KJ. Perhaps the difference in actual skill isn’t as pronounced as the reputations but I think Hudson would still have the edge.
Second, obtaining Hudson would mean KJ is moved. Moving KJ to LF is not the type of “bat in the LF” move this team needs. So I would speculate any move of this sort would be due to a trade of KJ.
So, why would the Braves spend money on Hudson when KJ is cheaper un younger? Because a big LF bat is more than 6.5 million in annual salary. However, a LF bat might be obtained in a trade with KJ returning the bat and either cash or a pitcher (speculation of course I don’t know what’s available.). However, in this case you spend a bit more in Hudson but you get more in LF for less through the trade. Or you get more in the rotation for less with the trade.
Any acquizition of Hudson can’t simply be viewed as merely a swap of KJ. It would depending mainly on where KJ went and what came from that move. It’s a reorganization of financial commitments as distributed across the field.

By THB

August 8, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Lew-I guess what I’m saying about the Braves plan is that we’ve had a mix of veterans who were too old and youngsters with minimal experience. And the ones who have a good amount of experience just aren’t that good. Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper, Kotsay and Hampton are past their primes, at least health wise. Yunel, Jurrjens, and Blanco are solid players, but are still very much learning (Except JJ). Kelly and Frenchy have either been average or below average for their careers. Not a bad thing, but not when the rest of your lineup is out. That leaves us with a young, yet mature McCann and Teixeira. Seems to me like the gameplan was a mix of youth and elders, but it was a sour mix.

On KJ-I agree that he is not even a problem. In fact, I think he’s good, and that’s why other teams would want him. I guess what I’m thinking is that taking him out of the lineup wouldn’t be the biggest blow-as long as we find a cleanup hitter. I don’t want to replace him internally because unless Frenchy bounces back, we’d have two gaping holes.

Not sure what I’d do as GM, but I believed in Wren last offseason, let’s see what he can do.

By TennesseePaul

August 8, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for that “one last time” post on Camps. I missed the first one I suppose but I’m saving this one. I thought he was under control for a while… it’s good news to hear. This team can focus on other areas and not be forced to commit to too much with Camps until he’s proven he can do it for more than 1 season.

By Thrillhouse44

August 8, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Coach (insert ridiculousness here), If Soriano does have TJ Surgery again, it certainly won’t be from overuse. He pitched 72 innings in 2007 and 14 innings this year. Bad example.

Time to get out of here. Hope everyone (especially the Braves) has a good weekend.

By Roman Gal

August 8, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

BayAreaSteve, glad I could help. Smoking is bad for you, ya know…

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see the clip on the pre-game show last night of some folks at Fox Sports trying to re-create the Randy Johnson play, where he killed the bird with a pitched ball?

They were shooting cornish game hens through the pitch zone, and firing baseballs from a pitching machine. They tried well over 100 times, yet ball never connected with bird.

By David O'Brien

August 8, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

NEW BRAVES BLOG is up

By Greg in TN

August 8, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Afternoon gang…

Fine performance last night by young Charlie Morton (maybe we oughta start calling him C-Mo? I kind of like the sound of a C-Mo to B-Mac battery) who ended the contest last night in the desert with his second straight quality start and his first MLB hit to boot with a double to left.

A strong finish to the season would certainly do much to put his name in the minds of the powers that be for the ‘09 rotation, and deservedly so. Now we just need to work with C-Mo on his baserunning… Kidding, folks.

Lot’s of discourse on KJ recently. He’s not going to win any Gold Gloves at second base, and at the same pace he’s going now, he’s going to regress a little from his numbers last year (but once game number 162 is in the books it’s safe to say several others not named Chipper Jones or Brian McCann will be guilty of the same). That being said, as others have said on the ol Braves/MIB blog, KJ is not the issue here, and I’m not too sure KJ would be a trading piece that will get us a power bat or first tier starter.

I’ve really liked Omar Infante’s glove at 3B while the Offensive Assassin mends, and he’s had a pretty good stick all year long (already surpassed HR, RBI, BB and hit totals from last year and is higher avg/obp/slg/ops from one year ago). I do think Omar is more suited for utility work myself, but a lot of things can happen between now and Dark Star.

Looks like a few denizens caught the woman in the stands last night serving as her own little flag corp. Only thing I could say about that is Holy Cornelia.

By ccrider

August 8, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Shaun: The Statistics Are Observed and Analyzed By A Human Being. They Create A program according to what they see and believe is important. These people are computer people not People who have played and been around baseball their entire lives. THEY ARE SELLING A PRODUCT! Of course, they are going to believe that the product they sell the theories that purport are the HOLY GRAIL, what else would you expect them to say? The St. Louis Cardinals and probably every team in baseball will investigate any idea that might be of help, but if you think for one second that they are making decisions on players due to this data, you’re wrong. It is just more info to consider. Shaun, please go back thru DOB articles and quotes from Bobby Cox, his coaches, Frank Wren, ETC. These people give you their observations as they themselves have witnessed watching the players on the field, in the clubhouse and on the road trips It is the personal observations that decide the fate of a team, NOT THE MICHAEL LICHTMAN’s OF THE WORLD

By TennesseePaul

August 8, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

The Straight And The Narrow
by Spiritualized

The trouble with the straight and the narrow is it’s so thin, I keep sliding off to the side and the Devil makes good use of these hands of mine.
And if Jesus is the straight path that saves then I’m condemmed to live my whole life on the curb. On the crossroad to the Devil I’ll dwell, and I’ll count my years.

You know that I got a little something I should say. I guess that I’m just so easily led astray. It’s alright because I know my own way back home from here.
And I don’t fall off the wagon, you know. I take a dive and go as deep as I can go. Don’t hold your breath because I’m coming up slow this time.

You know I got a little problem or two. I guess that I keep on taking a few. I’ve been told its not the best thing that I can do, right now.
And I don’t go looking for my sins, you know. They come out waiting and I just get on and go. Don’t hold your breath because I’m coming up slow this time.

The trouble with the straight and the narrow is it’s so thin, I keep sliding off to the side and the Devil makes good use of these hands of mine.

By Random

August 8, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Couldn’t’ve Francoeur scored on Campillo’s strikeout??? (Or whoever was on third — Francoeur, wasn’t it?)

Couldn’t/shouldn’t he have scored?!?!?