Braves

By Bill in VA

July 30, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

DOB Can you please give me an idea what Ohman’s value on the market is now? What are his desires? Does he want to go elsewhere? I think he’s a good fit in Atlanta.

By duh

July 30, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

TB that is exactly my point if they will not take less to play for BC and we have NEVER paid what NY or Boston pays then the whole “they want to play for Cox” statement is irrelevant. If it is not the decision then it doesn’t matter. So to use that as a lets keep BC no matter what point just doesn’t float. BC has done a lot for the Braves of which I will agree but it is just time for someone fresh with a different perspective. Sorry Chipper is having a good year but PT players shouldn’t win the batting title. Good luck to Albert.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Renegator, regarding your reply to me in the last blog. My man, there’s absolutely nothing that anyone even remotely connected to baseball, no player, coach, manager, or scout, be they from the opposing team, from the Braves, whether they’ve played for Cox or not, or from any writer, broadcaster, ticket-taker, etc, nothing that anyone actually connected with the game can tell you that will change your opinion of Cox, so what’s the point of trying to have a discussion?

Well, I should say unless you find a quote from a player, on or off record, saying it’s time for Cox to step down or the game’s passed him by. Then you’d use that quote at every turn. Because that’d be the person who has it figured out.

You don’t care what any of those other people think. You’re one of those who believe you have a better, unbiased appraisal of the subject from watching on TV or sitting in the stands, and from deducing that the team’s record in recent years, or its postseason losses, is a direct result of Cox. That’s fine. You’re entitled to that opinion. You’re not alone in it.

It’s just that those in position to have a little better understanding of what’s gone into said failures seem to all disagree with your view, but hey, what do they know?

By duh

July 30, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Can we expect more than Ohman to be moved?

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Just read everyone’s reaction to the trade from yesterday’s blog.

Not sure why people were so upset initially. To get a player of Kotchman’s caliber with Tex’s contract position was pretty sweet.

After Arizona said they wouldn’t trade Conor, I really wanted Loney. But, the Dodgers front office continues their 2 decade long circus act and were “looking towards Boston’s Manny Ramirez,” as per radio here in LA, even though McCourt cut Coletti’s source of funds. If you ever wonder why i’m a braves fan living in LA, now you know.

It’s funny that when we traded for Tex, the conversation was world series. That’s the same conversation going on here in LA about the Angels.

I’m glad Wren was able to pull player of Kotchman’s caliber. I’d like to see some more trades, including Kotsay and KJ. I’d like to keep Ohmna, but if the price is good, then it would be hard to say no.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Bill in Va, after I wrote all that above about Ohman, you’re asking me what are his desires, where does he want to go?

By duh

July 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

DOB you take the Cox thing so personal man. At least from my point I want to say I do think he was a great manager, as was Sparky, Stengel, Torre even Ditka, Shula or Landry in football (but there was a time for each to move on). What we are saying or I am saying is it is just time for a change. You have to admit this team doesn’t run and never will with Cox. It make scoring so much harder. No bunts, steals, hit and runs and very few 1st to 3rd stretches. He hasn’t developed a single young pitcher since Millwood. This team is stale and the truth is not very talented. I do NOT blame Cox for this losing year but I also don’t think he is the manager for the team that he will have to develop over the next five years.

By CJ2

July 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I went to the game last night and I’m totally depressed. I’m an Atlanta native and lifetime fan, but with small kids, I have to admit I have watched and followed the team as closely the last few years…

I know we have been hit with injuries, but this roster is filled with AA talent. There aren’t any young guys on on the Braves major league roster with “potential”. Several scrubs- Infante, C. Miller, Norton- I’m having 1980’s flashbacks!

I hope our minors are filled with better talent, but then wouldn’t they be playing instead of the hacks currently in place,

By CJ2

July 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I went to the game last night and I’m totally depressed. I’m an Atlanta native and lifetime fan, but with small kids, I have to admit I have watched and followed the team as closely the last few years…

I know we have been hit with injuries, but this roster is filled with AA talent. There aren’t any young guys on on the Braves major league roster with “potential”. Several scrubs- Infante, C. Miller, Norton- I’m having 1980’s flashbacks!

I hope our minors are filled with better talent, but then wouldn’t they be playing instead of the hacks currently in place,

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Kotchman has the potential to draw some walks. The Angels are known for teach an aggressive (many would say over-aggressive) philosophy of hitting.

We probably won’t know for a while how much of Kotchman’s impatience has to do with the Angels’ philosophy and how much is his ability to recognize pitches and the strikezone, etc. If I had to guess, I’d say his walk total rises possibly to 75+ walks over 150+ games.

It seems apparent that Kotchman has some bat control, which bodes well for situational hitting. If he can increase his walk total and OBP, he’s a good option as a number two hitter.

If nothing else, it should be interesting to watch this 25-year-old develop with a chance to play everyday for a player’s manager.

By Herschel Talker

July 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

NINTH! I’m surprised DOB isn’t claiming that the Braves are still in it. I guess the rose-colored glasses are a little foggy. When’s kickoff?

By Stephen

July 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

What are the odds that Kelly Johnson is moved?

By DAP

July 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

speaking of defense at 2B ive been thinking we really need a power right handed bat to play leftfield next year…do you guys think we hare a better team is kelly johnson plays left field and we sign orlando hudson to play 2nd? hudson is a gold glove 2nd baseman, switch hitter, and decent offensive player. does that move improve this offense?

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Shaun

You haven’t had a job that made you make decisions that would effect your ability to keep said job?

Um, okay. Financial analysts, New Business exec’s for advertising agencies, etc.

“Seeing into the future” means making decisions that will impact your company over the long haul. Braves made a bad one. A bit unfair considering what they were dealt with, but the end results were not up to par.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

I’d like to address some comments to my 12:08 post on the last blog.

Y’all-Re:Smoltz. God Love John Smoltz. He has been a great player for the Braves. He has exhibited courage and strength under fire and adverse conditions more times than can be counted. He has thrown knuckleballs and thrown sidearm when he couldn’t hold his arm up and probably had to brush his teeth with his left hand. No one-absolutely NO ONE can doubt that he has the desire to return after this latest round of surgery.

However, that being said, maybe it’s time for all of us (and quite possibly John himself) to realize that he will be 42 years old. He will be coming off of his fifth major arm surgery. He will not have faced ML hitters in nine or more months by the time he can throw again. Not the Doctors, the Brave’s staff or John Smoltz have any idea if he will ever be able to throw effectively again.

How in the world can we or anyone else factor Smoltzie into any plans we have for 09? This smacks of insanity to me-especially when we’ve had definitive proof that the way we’ve gone about things the past three seasons HAS NOT WORKED. There can be no more reliance on icons that have seen their day and had them pass them by.

If anyone can come back, John Smoltz is the one to do it-no doubt. But nonetheless, it’s highly doubtful he will ever be anything other than a mere shadow of what he was. He will not be our stud starter. He will not win 17 games again. He will not be the lights out closer with 50 something saves. To think otherwise is foolhardy and delusional in the extreme. If anything, a minor league contract out of loyalty should be offered and NOTHING ELSE. We can not commit millions of dollars to his possible return.

Now as for Hampton. Anyone suggesting he should be re-signed even if he wins four or five games is nuts. Three years of injuries. What more needs to be said? Besides, if he DOES win a few games, some moron of a GM WILL offer him millions to sign. God Forbid it is Frank “The House” Wren, our new homeboy upstairs.

By NCBravesFan

July 30, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

DOB Any thoughts about Kotsay being traded? He seems like he would be a good fit for a playoff contender as a fourth outfielder/PH.

Has the hubbub over Tex and Ohman commanded center stage and we haven’t heard about the Kots trade possibilities, or are his back troubles scaring teams off?

By N8

July 30, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“N8, again, you think that Schuerholz and Wren can see into the future. It’s absurd.”

Wren saw into the future that the Braves weren’t going to be able to keep Tex. Why wasn’t JS able to do the same thing with Drew?

“But, as Joe Simpson said last season during a game—if a team could trade the next A-Rod for a World Series, it does it. Because you don’t get that opportunity that often.”

Which is why Joe Simpson is in a booth and not making phone calls or sending text messages to other GM’s at the deadline. I think it’s relative to a team’s payroll and ownership. CLEARLY Time/Warner showed at the time that they WERE NOT gonna allow JS to shell out the cash. So hanging on to the next Arod would be the better move for a cash strapped team.

You act like ownership is always enamored with winning a WS? It’s about dollars.

Ironically teams weren’t willing to give up the “next A-Rod” for Tex right now, so that shows how many GM’s think he’s a difference maker in the grand scheme of winning the WS, huh?

“It’s just so ridiculous to say Schuerholz should have known the value of Wainwright and Salty and the others and should have known the Braves wouldn’t get to the playoffs.”

You missed my point completely. It has less to do with the value of said prospects, than it does with the “sign-ability” of the guys you’re trading for.

You think the Tigers are happy their GM “went for it” by trading Smoltz for Doyle?

I’m gonna go with the assumption that even HAD the Tigers won the WS that year, that they would have taken the last 20 years of Smoltz over that stretch drive. Or do you disagree?

I’m not saying that the aggressiveness of JS “going for it” last year with the Tex trade, is/was a bad thing. I like the fact that A) the team was close enough to make a move, and B) that we have a GM with the ballz to make the move.

But the “old” JS would not have made that move, without assurances that Tex was gonna sign long term, or would have convinced ownership to up the ante so we could keep him.

JS didn’t get to be known as the best GM “ever”, by giving away top prospects for 150 game rentals of superstar players. Even the Sheffield trade was for two full seasons, and we gave up LESS talent in that trade.

The Tex and Drew trades are COMPLETELY different than any trade that JS was ever a part of. You can’t possibly disagree with that, can you?

Don’t give me the “going for the WS” routine. Trading 5 prospects for two guys that weren’t gonna stick around, is not what JS does/did. His trades were ALWAYS for guys that were gonna be a long-term part of the team (at least in theory), or were half year rentals, but NEVER cost us that much.

Unless you think giving up Bruce Chen for Andy Ashby was a “huge gamble”?

If Ted still owned the team, this conversation would not be going on. We would have traded for Tex, NOT worried about his contract until the off-season, and would have ADDED talent at this deadline, to not only make a run (while upping payroll), but to assure free agents to be (like Tex), that the team was committed to winning (and spending what it takes to win).

Maybe, JS felt he needed to “gamble” more that the funds weren’t there? I don’t know. I don’t claim to know what JS was thinking, or what he knew or didn’t know.

What I do know, is that the Tex trade doesn’t match up to what he built his reputation on.

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

So, DOB….

With it looking like Ohman is going to be traded and possibly Kotsay. My question is that….

Are Braves looking for a power hitting OF in one of those trades or are they just trading them for pieces for the future and they’ll go for a power hitting OF in buy mode while still selling for the future by this year’s deadline?

Or….

Are they going to wait and add the power hitting OF during the offseason?

Also in your view, who do you think we’ll possibly end up with after Thursday?

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog DOB.

Kotchman is having a “down year” when it comes to his OBP, but he’s typically been able to maintain a solid OBP. I hope he gets that back. He’s hitting HRs at a better rate than he did in the minors, perhaps that has cost him on his other averages. He doesn’t have to step in and be a 40 homer guy. Just be who he is and the rest will work out just fine.

By Buzz Capra

July 30, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

DOB Amen brother these are the hard times. Next thing you know we will bring the 70’s uniforms back.

Don’t you think that the Braves would be better off making a complete overhaul at this point? They will never be able to go out and get guys that can get them over the hump for a playoff push anymore. I’m affraid that JS dealing our young talent in the past is going to put us in the same position as the Royals when JS came over from them. I think we would be better off using the same philosophy as the A’s. With our payroll shrinking, we are going to have to stock up on young guys in the future.

I don’t see the Braves being in contention in the next couple of years, so we will need to get rid of players while they still have value. I think the Tex deal is a perfect example. We traded several good prospects for a guy to make 1 or 2 playoff runs and we were more than 1 player away. Then when we traded the guys for 3 months, we get a lot less. No one should be untouchable as long as we have the current ownership.

By weso1

July 30, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, I saw where you referenced Kotchman’s walks this season, pointing out the fact that his walks totals are not good at all. But what’s strange about it is that in 2007 his walk totals were good, and all throughout the minor leagues he has been known as a patient hitter. I do know that the Angels hitting coach is known for wanting his hitters to take an aggressive approach. I’m curious to find out if Kotchman wants to go back to his more patient approach, and if this is something the Braves organization want as well. His less aggressive approach really hasn’t served him that well this season.

By Andrew

July 30, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

“Raises for McCann and others…” What? McCann isn’t arbitration-eligible. He’s got a long-term deal; he’s going to make $3.5m next year.

By duh

July 30, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

btw when you honestly evaluate this team other than SS, catcher and Jurrgens exactly which player would another team swap their starter for the Braves starter? Not very many. The talent is just not there…..

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

DAP

What do you think about playing Lilly at 2B. We spend no money and have more money to get more pitching……and if we can……..an OF that hits for power.

KJ can platoon LF with Blanco and 2B with little Lilly.

Plus Lilly could platoon SS with Yunel.

Keep infante and keep Prado.

So in that way will can spend lots of money on 1 ACE, 1 power bat and a pair of reliever……….that includes good money for Ohman.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Not that my opinion is that valuable, but I do find it promising to have first base secured for the next 3+ seasons.

When Texas traded Teixeira 1 year ago, they didn’t get a single player that they can be certain will fill an everyday major league role, let alone for the next 3 seasons.

Sure, I expect some of those guys to pan out; but, a lot of ifs and maybes.

That’s not me saying that it was a great trade, or that we did better than Texas, or anything of that ilk. It’s simply me pointing out that we have our everyday first baseman under control for the next 3 seasons, and he’s a pretty good one at that. Not bad.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Different Take, how did the trade for Teixeira impact the Braves significantly over the long haul? We don’t know yet how good those players will be. We don’t know yet what Kotchman will bring. We don’t know yet what the money they will save by moving Tex will bring. Sorry, but baseball trades don’t exactly work like financial analysis or advertising.

Also in financial analysis and advertising, I don’t know if there is anything equivalent to having possibly one good shot to win a World Series and not knowing if you’ll ever have another one.

By duh

July 30, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

got to agree with Shaun, why trade for players you know you can’t sign. If we have no intention of signing Tex or Drew or anyone else just don’t go get them. We want superstar players at waiver wire prices…..not going to happen

By Greg in TN

July 30, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new HTML parchment, DOB.

I do think that there won’t be as much drop off from Tex to Casey, certainly so in the power numbers, but I think as long as Casey continues to develop, he sounds like a good #2 for the order.

I am fine with giving BMac the #4 hole position, but I think with Tex gone, it makes getting a power bat for LF even more of a priority for the days that BMac has to have a day off. Ideally BMac IMO is best suited at #5.

Would really like to see Ohman stay, but with the money we have tied up for another year with Soriano, I can understand why he’s next in line for a Delta flight out of Hartsfield. I’ve seen some denizens ask about Kotsay, and with the injury issues he’s had and his DL stint earlier this year, I don’t think he’d be anything other than a throw-in player to sweeten the pot of another deal.

By Now I ain't saying she's a golddigger

July 30, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog. As bleak as its contents may be.

By SeaAtl

July 30, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

“Hard Times” - appropriate song choice…..it’s a weird feeling as a Braves fan to have so little on the line for the next couple of months - really just Chipper’s shot at the batting title and JJ’s shot at ROY. And it could be fun to see how Kotchman fits in and plays, as well as any other trade additions. Worse than having no real shot at a post-season, in my opinion, is the way the Braves have played the past couple of weeks. Aside from injuries, the guys in the lineup have not played well since the All Star break. I always have the Braves game on one of our TVs, at least as background noise….but haven’t paid much attention to them this past week - it’s just too painful.

By Mark

July 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, as for McCann being arbitration elgible, didn’t he just sign a multi-year deal? Wouldn’t that do away with arbitration?

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Yahoo! called last night’s trade the official end to the Braves dynasty.

Here’s the story

Very good article respecting what the Braves have done, and the posts on the blog that follow seem from rational fans. They include lots of respect from Mets fans, and one Angels fan that wants Kotchman back.

By J.D. Phillips

July 30, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Speaking of ICONS past their prime, I guess one more season like this one and most Braves fans will be glad to see Cox retire. Love him or hate him the majority of fans are / will grow reckless.

If that bum Miller is in the lineup tonight, he needs to be fired tonight.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Your platoon idea doesn’t work. Blanco and KJ both hit lefty.

By Braves WIll WIn

July 30, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Having Kotchman at 1B makes this team stronger than with Tex and it all boils down to their slaries. I expect Wren to still go for Bay.

The reason, other teams could try and get him this year and the Braves wouldn’t have a chance to grab him in the off season. Bay is really the only power LF the Braves are going to consider. Dunn is not going to work because of strikeouts, and i wouldn’t really look for Carlos Lee. After that their is a drop off on available power bats in LF.

Back to Kotchman and Tex, Kotchman has a small salary which will allow us to spend that money else where. When you compare their stats they are close but TEX has the edge. BUT when you add an ace like Sabathia or Sheets to the team the Braves are better without Tex. Simple….in today’s game you can’t blow wads of money in one spot but spread it out eveingly. The SP is the most important spot.

Next years team looks better than the one coming into this year because we have way more flexability. Say the Braves pick up a number-1 starter, even without Hudson it is the same, add another innings eater and the rotation is better. The bullpen will be fine. Gonzo, Soriano will be back and maybe Smoltz. I don’t look for Smoltz to be a starter. The only need in the pen will be a lefty specialists if the Braves elect to mail Ohman off somewhere.

Take all that I touched on and this team looks better next year.

1. Blanco-CF; 2. Escobar-SS; 3. Chip-3B; 4. Bay-LF; 5. McCann-C; 6. Kotchman-1B; 7. Johnson-2B; 8. Francour-RF.

To make this look even better. All those wanting Furcal imagine droping Johnson and adding him. Wanna talk about speed and hitting. WOW. But maybe we will not start with the Furcal reunion.

The pitching staff will be FA/traded #1, 2. JJJ, 3. Campillo, 4. Reyes/James/ Morton and 5. Signed innings eater or one of the three listed in 4. And don’t forget that Hudson could return in August or September if he has to have surgery. That would really give us a strong rotation going into the stretch run.

For all of those wanting the Braves to rebuild for the future. SHUT THE HELL UP. The future is now and we are not that many parts away from making next years team the team to beat. All we need is just three-more pieces.

We may be able to grab one of those keys before the deadline. Nothing wrong trying to put the 09 team together in the 08 season. At least we will get a sneak peak before the end of the year.

Braves haters give up this contenf in 2010; I say next year is better chance at least Chipper will have a chance. 2010 and we are looking for a 3B.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I’ll tell you what was in JS’s mind when he made the Tex deal- a final World Series push in 08 and 09 while Smoltz and Chipper were still capable of contributing and he was still GM. It definitely did not work. That’s it, short, not so sweet and simple. Time to move on and go in another direction that does not involve lots (or any, really) of 40+ year old players with a history of injuries.

By Coach (100 losses in 2008?)

July 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Lets look at the bright side, Cox is still clueless and he will keep this team losing with his stubborn mismanagement.

As long as the Braves focus on losing as many games as possible, they will guarantee themselves a high 1st round pick for the first time in many, many years.

At this point, it really doesn’t matter if Cox manages in 2009 or not, this team will get their arses kicked with or without his bloated, fat, nose picking self.

So come on guys! Lets tank this season. Losing is good, it builds character. Winning is bad, it serves no purpose other than to bring false hope to the ignorant masses who still think the south won the Civil War.

Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground, Frank Wren is ushering out the end of an era. The Braves are now officially bottom feeders.

The remaining goals for 2008 are simple: Lose, trade away as many overpaid veterans as possible, dump some more contracts and focus on an historic 100 loss season. I think this team can manage that, don’t you?

Logic sucks doesn’t it? Nothing like a little reverse psychology to get the blog hopping mad.

By David-ATL14

July 30, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Solid blog DOB.

Sure it will come as quite a surprise to renegator ,that yes people inside the game actually have different takes and have far more knowledge of the game, it’s workings and said participants than the self annointed expert that blogs here.

By duh

July 30, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB give me your evaluation of why not trade Chipper (lest assume he would ok the trade since he is 10 and 5 guy)? The team is not going to the WS for a while. He is 37 next year and has played in 75% of the games the last four seasons. He has value-NOW. They can finish fourth with or without him so …..

By Tomahawk Kris

July 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think you need a vacation man - you sound a little haggard.

By Randy

July 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Getting Kotchman was a good trade for the Braves. Looks like 1B is settled.

Now all we have to do is replace the entire outfield, find at least two more starters from outside the organization, maybe upgrade the middle infield if this is all Escobar & Johnson can produce….possibly find a third baseman who can stay in the line up, as well as find a catcher who can bat over .150 to spell McCann.

Other than that we are in great, super-mega fantastic shape.

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy,

(in reference to the previous blog)

You’re really bringing it today. Good job.

DOB,

I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll mention it again here:

If Bobby Cox is so beloved around the league, why would any free agent (who loves Bobby Cox) want to come play for the Braves long-term when they know that Bobby will be leaving soon?

(That’s purely rhetorical, of course.)

Anyway, I’ll use this as an excuse to talk about old managers.

I’m bored.

So…let’s take a look at Jack McKeon:

Trader Jack famously won a World Series after taking over in season for the Marlins in 2003 at age 72. However, Jack McKeon had ten years off between managerial jobs in 1978 and 1988. He managed the Padres from ‘88 to ‘90 (he was fired during the ‘90 season) and didn’t manage again until ‘97 with the Reds. He remained with the Reds until 2000. He didn’t manage again until taking over that championship Marlins team and retiring after 2005.

In total, Jack had about 17 years of not managing during that time. That made it easier for the man to avoid being burned out and used up.

Tommy Lasorda left the game at age 68 (managed from ‘76 to ‘96…22 years in a row). Sparky Anderson left at age 60 (though he looked 80 after managing 27 seasons in a row). Walter Alston retired at age 64 after managing 23 seasons in a row. Casey Stengel was finished as a serious manager at age 69 (his years with the Mets were, as he let everyone know, laughable). Gene Mauch was done at 61.

Ralph Houk, who was probably Bobby’s main influence as a manager, retired at 64.

Outside of his stint as Braves’ GM (‘86-‘90, though he managed 97 games in 1990 after he fired Russ Nixon), Bobby Cox has managed in 27 seasons out of a possible 30.

Bobby Cox is 67 (same age as Bob Dylan, which is actually quite disturbing). As much he loves baseball, Bobby’s not going to be managing for much longer. If reports were accurate, Bobby was planning on leaving after this season. As soon as he got the itch to keep going (and the Braves got the contract together), Bobby was signed to return for next season.

If Bobby says that next year will be his last, he would be smart not to do it until the Braves make their major offseason free agent moves. The Braves need that asset to lure those players.

By Original Jon

July 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

J.D. Phillips The fans are/will grow reckless or restless?

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

DAP

Hudson actually gets 13 million….sites like ESPN avg their bonuses with their contract….that’s why it says Chipper is making 15 million when everyone knows he’s making 11…lol

N8 “But, as Joe Simpson said last season during a game—if a team could trade the next A-Rod for a World Series, it does it. Because you don’t get that opportunity that often.”

Which is why Joe Simpson is in a booth and not making phone calls or sending text messages to other GM’s at the deadline. I think it’s relative to a team’s payroll and ownership. CLEARLY Time/Warner showed at the time that they WERE NOT gonna allow JS to shell out the cash. So hanging on to the next Arod would be the better move for a cash strapped team.ent

I believe the Red Sox gave up Hanley..who could be the next A-Rod, for Beckett/Lowell and the Red Sox have won 2 WS since then haven’t they?….esp with Beckett’s help.

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

I for one am excited about the move…let’s hope Kotchman can help us start looking like a fluid team as opposed to some slow pitch softball weekend warriors that are just looking to focus on their own statistics…We need to start playing like nine guys wearing the same uniform…

And as for Franceours .232 BA…Pat Burrell hit what, .220, last year? And now look at the year he is having (.279 26HR 61RBI)…granted he plays in the band box they got in Philly, but still a significant improvement.

Go Braves!

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN—

I think 3BMac is best suited for the #5 spot as well.

(Thanks for he new blog, Chief!)

By Mike

July 30, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Now that we’ve freed up some payroll room, I say we sign Corky Miller to a long term deal so that we don’t lose him to free agency as well. Once we get him signed, I think he should do some work at 3B in case Chipper goes down again next year.

By rammerjammer

July 30, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Three points to make:

First, I’m shocked anyone traded for two months of Tex (although with LA’s deep pockets, he’s probably theirs for life).

Second, I’m shocked Frank got a quality 1B in Kotchman.

Third, it’s counter-intuitive that with pitching being such a valuable commodity (of which we are increasingly in short supply) we wouldn’t overspend to keep Ohman. I hope Frank surprises me again and keeps him.

Of all our relievers, Ohman is the only one whose performance AND health look good for 2009. Everyone else, Gonzo included, has a question mark.

By N8

July 30, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Lew

You’re right, that is EXACTLY what was on his mind. But does that make it right?

So essentially, JS was operating the team with two players “last hurah” in mind, rather than the other 23 guys on the roster, along with the future of the team?

While I get it, doesn’t make sense, other than to try and reward a couple of guys that have brought a lot to the table.

But couldn’t he have “rewarded” them, by sending them to a contender for one last shot, while at the same time STRENGTHENING our roster?

Just seems to me, he worked in a back-azzwards manner in which we were accustomed to seeing him operate in.

I’m over it.

Let’s talk about the 2009 Braves, not failures of the 2007 Braves.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you haven’t worked in either industry, but there are deals that make or break a company. Just there are deals that make or break an organization(not saying that this was one, I agree with you about the fact that we won’t know for another few years, but right now it was a bust) It’s unfortunate that you don’t understand that.

By DAP

July 30, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

doc holliday i dont really like moving players around that much. i think consistancy is important for a player if you expect him to perform well. i also dont think lillibridge is a major league player. hes not ready yet.

its just that the free agent outfielders arent to great…there arent any relativly young, good players that are good offensivly AND defensivly. when i think about it, i dont think moving kelly back to left and signing orlando hudson really improves this team that much. we are gonna have to get a good right handed hitter to play leftfield. good luck, wren.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Buzz Capra

Why exactly do you want the Braves to have the same philosophy as the A’s? The A’s have only made it out of the first round of the playoffs once under Billy Beane. The A’s were in contention this year and traded away there best pitcher and is now shopping around Duscherer. I for one would be a little frustrated if Wren traded McCann right after the ASG just because his trade value would never be higher. What about if he traded Chipper when he was batting .425? The A’s don’t have a great followiing for a reason.

By brian

July 30, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

I will say again (to myself of course) - if there is any way to pluck away Mike Stanton for the Marlins A affiliate in Greensboro do it now. He will be big time on the radar in 1-2 years as a major prospect. He is 19 and leading the league in HRs. Big guy with a smooth swing (right handed) and can run. Plays RF. Of course this is probably why the Marlins will not trade him away

By Lars

July 30, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Hey Braves will win guy, the Braves would be lucky to be a .500 team with that lineup and pitching staff. Face it, 2009 will be like another 2005 when we are building for the future. Just because we won in 05 says more about the other teams in our division that year. We’ve got two outfielders in the minors that’ll be up playing CF and platooning with Diaz in LF. Face it, Blanco is another Willie Harris/Charles Thomas/Nick Green/Gerald Williams sort of player. He fills out the lineup, but you aren’t winning any titles with him in it.

By Big Easy

July 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, agree that it would be great to keep Ohman around, if for no other reason than his wit.

If anyone on here has Comcast, check out your OnDemand. I forget which category it is in (I believe it is “What’s Hot” or something), but there is a show called (I believe) “A Day’s Work.” It has local athletes doing everyday jobs. One episode has Will Ohman and Matt Diaz working at the Georgia Aquarium. Will’s self-deprecating humor made the show worth watching, for sure.

I also have a personal reason for wanting him to stay a Brave. Last June, two months to the day after my son had been born, he went to his first Braves game. The seats were a gift, and they were good — 3rd base side, just beyond the Cubs dugout (Ohman was still pitching with the Cubs at the time). This was an ESPN game, so we were there earlier than we intended to be (thought the game started at 7, instead of 8). I’m wearing a Braves cap and shirt, and my son is wearing a Braves onesie.

Anyway, BP was ending, and Ohman was making his way back to the dugout when he saw my son. He stopped, came over, and said “Baby high-five!” while giving my son (with my help) a high-five. Then he took a baseball out of his glove and said, “Dude, you are totally not going to remember this,” and gave me and my son the baseball. He smiled, and went his way to the dugout.

This was the game that Ted Lilly got ejected from for hitting Renteria. June 10, 2007.

Just a classy dude. Love having him on our team, and will be sad to see him go.

~E~

By brian

July 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

with the Dodgers aggressively looking for a utility man who can start at SS for 1 month, any word if the Braves have talked to the Dodgers about a deal for Infante. As valuable a utility man Infante has been for the Braves, I assume it would have to be a pretty good deal for the Braves to move him

By duh

July 30, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Braves will win…. get a dose of reality. This team isn’t very good and won’t be for a while. They have quit or didn’t you see any of the last two weeks. The year to year patchwork is what put them in this spot so unless you have 4 starting pitchers, 3 bullpen guys and maybe two outfielders up your sleeve all under 35 million total then get for real about the next year or two.

By Braves WIll WIn

July 30, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Duh- The braves will not trade chipper and I can almost gaurentee you chipper doesn’t care about going to another team to win a sereis. He got his in 95 and could get it next year.

Coach - U need therapy. No way this team losses even 90-games. if it does I can almost 100% gaurentee that the Braves would trade francour and Johnson in the offseason. Resone Frank will not tolerate players not playing to their potential.

Face it every one is in denial right now. In August you will get over it. If not then you probably have an emotional issue of lettin things go.

Damn people the Braves are down because of all of these injury’s it happens. We traded TEX because he was going anyway. Kotchman is a better player FOR US in the end. GET over it.

This team can still make noise. Win division no but make everyone thing next year is better. You folks get over it. Their is nothing a matter with the core of this team. All we need to do is make changes.

Also, the Braves will NEVER tear down a team like the marlins and other small market teams have becuase ATL is not a small market team. This front office is concened about butts in the seats not what could happen 10 years from now. You don’t play for the future because tomorrow never comes in the present. You play to win NOW.

By N8

July 30, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

bravos2249

“I believe the Red Sox gave up Hanley..who could be the next A-Rod, for Beckett/Lowell and the Red Sox have won 2 WS since then haven’t they?….esp with Beckett’s help.”

Really? You’re comparing the LM owned Atlanta Braves to the Red Sox “nation”???? You can’t be serious, can you?

EVEN IF the Red Sox were to have lost Lowell and (or) Beckett after that trade, they have the pocketbooks (along with a sold out stadium 81 nights a year - and the MERCHANDISE SALES), to go get whoever they want.

They are looking to DUMP Manny Ramirez and STILL make a run THIS YEAR.

Find me another team (not named the Red Sox or Yankees), that could even REMOTELY think about doing that?

The Red Sox have also NOT gone out of there way to dump good young pitching when making such trades. Something JS did for many years, a point which has NOT been lost on Theo Epstein, IMO.

Besides, being a Braves fan, you should know the difference in adding a big bat in the lineup, as opposed to what an ACE can do for you come playoff time.

One could reasonably argue that if Hanley Ramirez plays in 10 WS in his career, he will likely NEVER match the impact that Josh Beckett has had for the Red Sox in October.

But your point (in general) is a good one, but the choice to use the Red Sox as an example while comparing them to the Braves is funny at best.

Last time I checked that 2003 Marlins team (filled with INCREDIBLE young talent), won a WS too, right?

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Wren saw into the future that the Braves weren’t going to be able to keep Tex. Why wasn’t JS able to do the same thing with Drew?

When was he supposed to trade Drew? At the deadline when the Braves were headed to the playoffs?

Ironically teams weren’t willing to give up the “next A-Rod” for Tex right now, so that shows how many GM’s think he’s a difference maker in the grand scheme of winning the WS, huh?

Right. Because Tex has two months left on his contract and most contenders already have good firstbasemen. Trading the next A-Rod for someone that isn’t going to make that much of a difference is different from trading the next A-Rod for a guy that is going to make a huge difference in your prospects.

By Braves Headstone

July 30, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

ATLANTA BRAVES 2008 * RIP *

Here they lie, broken-hearted They came to hit, but only farted

By JB

July 30, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

* DOB MCCANN DOESN’T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ARB!!! REMEMBER HE SIGNED THAT LONG TERM DEAL!!!*

By TheCutMan

July 30, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

I, too, don’t get it. Paraphrasing ESPN’s Mike & Mike talking points from this morning on the Teix trade:

“Why are the Braves turning loose of one of the most impactful players in the game? (Teix) Do they not believe, or have the resources to re-sign this guy with proven ability or have they resigned themselves to being an also-ran team?”

You can spin it any way you want in terms for the $$$, the market, the ownership, the front office, etc., but it seems to me the Braves are willingly accepting mediocrity or worse with their team.

Oh yeah, one more thing? Given their demonstration of playing ability, lack of execution, it appears the current players are right there as well.

Everyone in the front office and on the field has gotten comfortable with losing. Until that changes, they are what they are.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Those of you saying Lil at 2nd, platooning with KJ or taking his spot outright….not gonna happen.

1 week of Lil hitting and you’re on his bandwagon already? Wow. What’s happened form his 1st call up when he was clearly outmatched, to hitting .218 in the minors this year?

What does Prado have to do to get such a fan base base and equal opportunity at the 2nd base position?

What a joke.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

DAP

I dont like that Orlando Hudson move………….we need at least 1 power bat……….Lilly is not a great hitting player…….but he is fast and he can field like crazy………he could anchor that IF like belliard and lemke did. I think he can end up been exactly like Blanco……..thats enough IMO for a number 8th hitter and a great glove at 2B.

I would spend good money for a power bat in the OF.

Maybe play CF……….that way we can play Blanco at RF against righties………….and in LF against lefties.

The reality of things is that KJ is not moving out……….bobby and wren love him and they wont trade or move him from 2B.

Same goes for JF…………and those 2 guys are a problem for us at their positions………they are underachieving badly.

If Braves dont think Lilly is good enough to make the team…….not even as a bench player………..they should trade him for a good ACE………..in a multiple player trade.

By StingerSplash

July 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Bravos 2249,

The Red Sox won one World Series with Lowell and Beckett. The 2004 title was won with the Schilling/Martinez/Lowe/Wakefield staff and Bill Mueller at 3B. Beckett-Lowell trade was 2006.

By J.D. Phillips

July 30, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

The fans are/will grow reckless or restless?

Perhaps both; however, restless was intended…..sorry it’s close to Corona time.

By monty

July 30, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

It all begins and ends with pitching. If the present team had a younger Smoltz, Glavine,and Maddux does anyone doubt this present team, injuries and all, wouldn’t be at least 4-5 games ahead in first place, even with our anemic offense?

I know someone will argue that starting pitching hasn’t been the problem.I’m sure statistics may even provide a basis for that argument. However statistics don’t always tell the whole story.

THat’s why I say go and get a couple of really decent pitchers and even with present personal coming back for next year we win our division. If you can get two starters and a power hitting left fielder too, great! Starting pitching is key unless you can really hit which these BRaves can’t or shall I say didn’t this year.

Give me a Braves team where you can honestly say our starters are better than your starters day in and day out, throw in being able to manufacture a run or two a game and we are on our way!

By BA

July 30, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

These last three games are proof that the Braves shouldn’t even considering trading Ohman- Soriano, Gonzalez, and Ohman is just the START of the kind of bullpen we’ll need next year. I think, in our division, Ohman is at least as valuable as Soriano.

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

N8 Lew You’re right, that is EXACTLY what was on his mind. But does that make it right?

Nate. Right is heading to first base instead of third when running after hitting the ball. Right is not grooving a pitch to Manny Ramirez.

The direction that a team’s management takes is neither right nor wrong. It is their direction. Was it smart? Time decides.

If I am JS, Chipper, Smoltz or BC, it was worth it!

By Nate

July 30, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

So i see this whole off season coming down to Frenchy. What to do with Frenchy? Obviously the Braves need to add a masher in LF to replace Tex’s production. And obviously they have to go after a number one starter whether Hudson is out or not. (I would suggest going after Roy Halladay)

The question really is RF. The less than expected output from Frenchy, Escobar and Johnson is what’s killed teh Braves this season. I think the Braves are kinda stuck with Johnson and Escobar though. Much harder to find upgrades at middle infielder than the outfield. If Frenchy could be counted upon to produce the Braves may be able to go after two solid starting pitchers and contend next year.

But if Frenchy is gonna hit his weight again, then the Braves really need two outfielders and two starting pitchers. And we’re not just talking about filling slots here. These whole need to be filled with real difference makers. I don’t think they have the resources to do that without selling the farm.

So the conclusion then is that if Frenchy can’t be counted on next year, then its time to start shooting for 2010 and beyond.

By Dear Frank Wren

July 30, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

And did they get you to trade

your heroes for ghosts?

Hot ashes for trees?

Hot air for a cool breeze?

Cold comfort for change?

And did you exchange

a walk on part in the war

for a lead role in a cage?

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

duh, I don’t take it personal. Honestly. You interpret my reaction, stated with conviction, as being personal. What do you want me to do? If it’s my blog, the days I’m writing, I’m gonna state my opinions. You can do the same, just back it with something if you can. If not, that’s alright, too.

By Best case scenario

July 30, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Will Ohman for Tyler Herron

or

Will Ohman for Jeremy Hellickson

or

Will Ohman for Nick Hagadone

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

*Bobby’s Cox *

Those of us saying that about Lilly never said nothing about his hitting………but his glove………..

You are right about Prado, but his glove is shaky………..Maybe the best of them all is Infante………but, is an everyday player? He is just unbelievable with his glove (or bare hand). Prado and Lilly as backups and KJ to LF=?

Do you like that better?

Infield defense is the key……….we probably wont get a power 2B anywhere……….so we better focus on power from the OF………….Problem is that JF is blocking that possibility……………

We need blanco……….he has been the best leadoff hitter since Furcal…….the only 2 pure leadoff hitters we have has in this decade……….so he must stay. He has lasted there, so you would have to think braves have plans for him at CF for next year……….

But we have to many IF………..one of them have to go………KJ, Prado, Infante and Lilly……..we could use Infante as a back up OF and maybe matt………..but then we still will be needing that big RH bat in LF…………and I would love to see a trade involving JF to get a better option in RF.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Neyer’s take on the Tex trade:

He is not going to make a difference in the American League West. The Angels have essentially clinched already; according to CoolStandings.com, the Angels currently have a 95-percent chance of getting into the playoffs, and that wouldn’t change much if they replaced Casey Kotchman with Ross Gload instead of Teixeira. So this is about October. But of course there aren’t as many games in October — the Angels could play as few games as three, or as many as 19 — and any one player’s impact is correspondingly limited. And for this small upgrade in a small number of games, the Angels traded multiple seasons of Kotchman and a big young arm (minor leaguer Stephen Marek).

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

I was reading MLBTradRumors and it said Phillies are now looking at Ohman.

Burrell for Ohman straight up please -_-

By N8

July 30, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“When was he supposed to trade Drew? At the deadline when the Braves were headed to the playoffs?”

That’s a fair rebuttal, but I guess I was thinking more along the lines of why didn’t JS trade Wainwright and Marquis for a RF that was under contract for a few years, or that was willing to sign an extension upon arriving in a Braves uniform (like Tim Hudson did)?

I understand that there might have not been one available, but that was my point. NOT to move Drew at the deadline.

By fifthbusiness

July 30, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Personally, I like the Braves policy of not being held hostage by free agents. They offer a fair, but lower offer to their players and let some one else throw the bank in their back yard. On the flip side, ticket prices to Braves games are well below the cost at Boston, Chicago, New York and St Louis.

The rebuilding of the Braves is almost as interesting as the Braves contending. As for BC, the man knows how to lead and develop players. That’s what Atlanta needs. I don’t care if it is Little League or the Major Leagues. If you are changing line-ups daily due to injury your team is not going to be a good as when there is consistency.

By Why Us

July 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Everyone’s talking about which free agents to sign this offseason. I think we need to get into the market also, but, hopefully with a lot of careful planning. We don’t need to get into a free agent feeding frenzy just because us bloggers really like some guy that we foolishly believe will guarantee many WS victories as soon as his name is penciled onto the lineup card.

I’m bolding predicting—okay not so bolding—if you look at some recent history, that some teams are really going to come to rue many of the long term, high dollar, contracts that will be passed out this offseason.

Here are the contracts I’m sure many will come to regret:

B. Sheets—-never saw a DL he didn’t fall in love with.

R. Harden—-see Sheets above, but with even more times on the DL.

R. Furcal—-major back problems (see Kotsay). Stay as far away from him as possible. Will never play a full season again without DL time.

Tex—-All those bidders will be blinded by total stats when chasing him but they’ll be grinding their teeth down to the gumline wondering why the guy doesn’t feel like showing up until July (what do you want anyway, it’s only 20-23M a year?).

O. Perez, J. Garland & a number of other back of the rotation guys who’ll be available & will have 10-16M per year thrown at them. Oh yeah!

Let the bidding begin!

By DAP

July 30, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

doc holliday The reality of things is that KJ is not moving out……….bobby and wren love him and they wont trade or move him from 2B.Same goes for JF…………and those 2 guys are a problem for us at their positions………they are underachieving badly.

i agree with you on getting orlando hudson, but this is where we part ways. kelly johnson is an above average offensive 2nd baseman. that is a fact. he is also 26, and has a good chance of becoming an even better hitter. he is slumping this year, for sure. its basically his 2nd year so im gonna say sophmore slump.

as for frenchie, i feel for him big time. i really like him, but he is stuggling so bad, it is embarrassing. i hope he will get back on track next year, and give us the production we need, but i think he needs to ern his spot in spring training 2009.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

*BravesFanChris23 *

Why would the phillies go for bullpen help??? they have the best bullpen ……….at least NL.

All they need is SP.

By duh

July 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Fair enough DOB , can you give me an example of one single player that signed with the Braves and the deciding factor was BC?

By westy12

July 30, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

jb: “The Braves will do what they always do, trade prospects to fill holes.”

Random: “Yepper, the same way they traded Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Prado, Blanco, Francoeur, McCann, Sammons, Morton, Glavine, Boyer, Stockman, Moylan and all those other guys. You sure got their number, bubba — there’s no foolin’ you, is there?”

No, Random, you’re the one that was fooled. Again. And it only took jb’s simple factual statement to do it. To be such a pretentious, holier-than-thou a-hole, you sure have a problem with basic reading comprehension, don’t ya, bubba?

The Braves typically do trade prospects to fill holes, that is a fact. No one said the Braves trade all their prospects to fill holes, and you know it. But then facts never get in the way of your tired act, do they, Random? Instead, you distort jb’s point, take a line out of context, and try to build your manipulative self-serving case. Well done, you should be proud.

I’m wondering, do you try to be a dick, or does it just come naturally? I know you’re bitter about your beloved “Teshy” being gone, but get over it already.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Even when I’m happy with Neyer’s analysis, I still hate the way he smarmily phrases things.

Everyone and their dead grandmother know that if the Angels get swept in the LDS, then Teixeira won’t play many October games.

But, the point of the trade for the Angels is to help improve their chances of playing more games, and ultimately winning the World Series.

I am becoming increasingly more convinced that Neyer has never watched a baseball game.

By NCBravesFan

July 30, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

DAP I agree with you on Frenchy - although he does seem to be faring a little better at the plate in the last week or so - he looks a lot better at the plate to me.

He hasn’t seen a lot of tangible success yet in terms of results, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t rebound a bit the rest of the year.

By Michael

July 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

From Jayson Stark at ESPN: But a couple of things separated Ohman from that pack, over and above that .160 batting average left-handers have against him. One is his Harry Caray impression while introducing the Braves’ lineup Saturday on Fox, one of the highlights of the season. (“Batting third and playing first base, got a great glove, Mark Te-te-texss … uhhhh, Mark is batting third.”) Two is Ohman furnished us with his own handy-dandy list of tips to survive the trading deadline (if you’re about to get traded). They included: (1) “Eat a lot,” (2) “Practice your clichés in front of the hotel mirror,” and (3) “Kill time by computing the mathematical probabilities that you’ll get dealt to a contender.” You need to devise a formula, he said, that determines the likelihood that “you can be the lynchpin to your old team’s success — by leaving it.” Now who wouldn’t want to trade for a guy like that?

By DAP

July 30, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

since we need a righthanded power hitter to play left field for us next year, there are are only a few free agents that would possibly work for us.

milton bradley. pat burell. manny ramirez.

thats it. manny will be steep and is wierd, i dont think we would want him. burell is poor defensivly, and Ks ALOT, bradly has injury and additude issues.

it is going to be a challenge for wren to get who we need. im not sure he will be able to do it. it might be matt diaz/brandon jones in left agin next year.

By ernesto

July 30, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Pat “The Bat” as a Brave? Please. We already have one Burrel-esque player (“Look, I”m great, Look now, I suck) in Frenchy, we don’t need that act in stereo.

But, then again, being able to have fun with all the diff’t ways you could use “Burrel-esque” just might make it worthwhile.

By DAP

July 30, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

casey blake might be a free agent option for leftfield.

By Michael

July 30, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Will Ohman to Boston for Class-A pitcher? http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/07/soxtalking_to.html

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Ohman for Daniel Bard?

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/07/soxtalking_to.html

Go Heels!

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

OK DAP………maybe you are right……..maybe KJ will come through next year, no need to go impatient……….but if that is the case and he becomes even better at the plate……why not send him to the OF……….????????

Put infante and/or Prado at 2B and get a slugger RF……..

we still have a good cleanup hitter in Mc………he could do it……..dont you think…….???? maybe a guy that hist 30-35 HR and 100 RBI would be enough in RF…….no need to go for a monster…………just someone to protect Mc……..and JF is not good at it…….nor at 6th……

I also like JF……..but I think his major problem is that he is inmature. Maybe Kotchman could do that………or we can hit him 2nd and put yunel behind Mc………then give Schafer and BJ a chance to play RF…….

By ncscoots

July 30, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

What does Prado have to do to get such a fan base base and equal opportunity at the 2nd base position?

Play completely over his head, I’m guessing?

Seriously, I admire your conviction on the guy (unless, of course, you’ve recently become his agent, LOL), but it’s just not there. Or, if it is, Prado is doing a great job of hiding it.

Personally, I like Prado, but not 500 AB’s worth. And I think that’s what you’re suggesting, right?

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday

Regarding your 3:55p.m. post….

Why would the phillies go for bullpen help??? they have the best bullpen ……….at least NL.

All they need is SP.

Honestly, I don’t know, I was just mentioning something that’s on MLBTradeRumors. The Burrell/Ohman was a joke, but I know you probably got that.

I believe Braves might be able to get back a piece or two for Ohman with the amount of teams looking at him.

By Kotchman

July 30, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

So did Kotchman make it to town yet? I know he has a day or two if he needs it, but most guys make the next days game if the trade goes through the day before. (See Tex to Boston for the series there)

Of course guys who get traded from a non-playoff team to a playoff team might be a bit more eager to show up than a guy who is traded from a contender to a team that’s out of it in July.

By DAP

July 30, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan i hope your right. at this point, if jeff can finish the season batting .245 with 12 homers and 70 RBI, it would be huge for him…which is sad to say, because those numbers are terrible for him. but he knows that. he is going to try hard to be back next year, i just hope it works.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

I dont think Braves should let Ohman go………..he wont get us what we need and we have the money to pay him now that TEX is gone………….

By Steve from OH

July 30, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hmm….Craig Kimbrel seems to have been promoted to Rome. He pitched today, striking out 5 in 2 1/3 innings of work. Erik Cordier pitched 5 innings, striking out 6 and giving up 2ER. Heyward/Freeman both 0-3.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

I love Ohman’s Handy-Dandy Tips to Survive the Trade Deadline! I hope that guy stays! He is funny!

BravesFanChris23 I was reading MLBTradRumors and it said Phillies are now looking at Ohman.

The FILLIES?? No! No trading with the Fillies! Pu-lease! The last thing we want to do is help out a rival! (Especially the Fillies! Ugh!)

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

My obscure reference — Bard was a lights-out starter for North Carolina in college. Throws very hard. Projected for the Red Sox major league staff in late 2009. A lot of upside and a big arm.

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Hmmm…maybe Adum Dunn in left next year…that would certainly give us the power we so desperately need.

By Steve from OH

July 30, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies:

I read the scouting report on Bard, seems like a legit prospect. I’d hope we could get someone a bit more advanced though. The Rays have a ton of pitching depth to deal from, I hope they’re interested.

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Red Sox looking to send Double A pitcher Daniel Bard for Ohman…Bard is 2-1 with a 2.63 ERA in 37 2/3 inn

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

The prospect we are going to get will be good.

A very good pitching prospect. Not a “top” prospect, but a good one. Better than taking a draft pick.

By Dan

July 30, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

DOB,,,, What are the chances the braves will get Bay from Pittsburg for ohlman and prospects> Any change that Francoeur will go to KC for a home run hitter and starting pitcher?

By Michael

July 30, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Pudge traded to Yankees. Wow.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

July 30, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Doc:

Could you……… please stop……… blogging from your Stair-Master?? Take a seat, catch your breath, then let ‘er rip.

By DAP

July 30, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

carolina matt but dunn is left handed. i think we need to get a righty power hitter…too many lefties already in this lineup.

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

anyone want to see a complete mess of an interview..LOL sorry

Frenchy is the guest correspondant on Rome is burning

By Goodoleboy58

July 30, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Home Contact About Advertise Archives Widget Fantasy Yankees Acquire Ivan Rodriguez By Tim Dierkes [July 30 at 3:28pm CST]

In a surprise move, the Yankees have acquired catcher Ivan Rodriguez from the Tigers according to Buster Olney.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Now that the braves have Kotchman, the infield is set for at least 3 more years. With, kelly, Kotchman, Mac, and Yunel, their only position were they don’t have a young player is 3B. And with Jayson Heyward and gorkys Hernandez in the minors, there outfield could be set as well. C Brian Mccann, 1B Casey Kotchman, 2B Kelly Johnson, 3B Who knows?, SS Yunel Escobar, LF Gorkys Hernandez, CF Jayson Heyward, RF Jeff Franceour. I’d say the Braves have a lot of good talent for the future. They also have a great young pitcher from Colombia Julio Tejeran. They also have Charlie Morton, and Jo jo Reyes(who i’m beginning to lose faith on). They have a lot of talent in this club, and I’m sure they will get back to the playoffs in a couple of years.

By SeaAtl

July 30, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

You guys already posted the link, but here’s the actual “rumor”: “The Red Sox today are talking to the Braves about reliever Will Ohman, who has a 2.84 ERA, 13 holds, and 41 strikeouts (with 18 walks) in 44 1/3 innings pitched this season.

Besides the Red Sox, five other teams are discussing Ohman with the Braves, who are looking for a pitching prospect in return. A logical name that might surface in trade talks with Atlanta from the Red Sox farm system is Double-A pitcher Daniel Bard, who is 2-1 with a 2.63 ERA in 37 2/3 innings pitched for the Sea Dogs this season.”

By hk

July 30, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

… current ‘MVP’ (Runs + HR’s + RBI’s) …

… projected year-end values …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/mvp08a.htm

… sure hate to see Tex go …

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

LOL Farnsworth just got traded for Pudge

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

MLB Trade Rumors:

In a surprise move, the Yankees have acquired catcher Ivan Rodriguez from the Tigers according to Buster Olney.

WOW

By DAP

July 30, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

dan What are the chances the braves will get Bay from Pittsburg for ohlman and prospects> Any change that Francoeur will go to KC for a home run hitter and starting pitcher?

ill get this one. no chance for either of those things to happen.

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

More On Pudge To Yankees:

Farnsworth Heading To Tigers

WOW Again.

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

*Oh, and enough of this talk about the Braves not being a dynasty because they only won one World Series ring. It’s tougher now than it’s ever been to win a championship. Outside of the Yankees, no team in baseball has more than a one-season postseason streak right now. The Yankees will have to make the playoffs through 2010 just to match the Braves’ postseason run, and the Braves never had to use either the wild card or the Boss’s bottomless checking account to get there. Okay, end rant.

even though it’s sad times I love that quote..lol

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

The Yanks get Pudge Rodriguez from the Tigers for…

Kyle Farnsworth?

ESPN’s report

People love the Yanks, don’t they? They love to give guys away for next to nothing just to say they’ve made a deal with the Bombers. How sweet.

By Dave

July 30, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Not to worry baseball dudes. Football season is right around the corner to put us out of our baseball season blahs. No one even opens the sports page before August 30th. GIVE ME FOOTBALL OR GIVE ME DEATH!

By Lawyers, Guns & Money

July 30, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

So the Angels gave up Kotch for Tex a year later and saved a big pitching prospect. The Braves had NO chance to keep Tex because Boras thinks like a lot of you, that the Braves want to operate as a mid market team in what should essentially be a big market.

That was a given before the trade because Scott doesn’t like JS and the feeling is more than mutual. I was a huge critic of the trade (because we traded young pitchers) but in fairness I thought the JJ deal was giving up too much.

When you look back at it something really changed with the Maddux arbitration ruling and the Hampton trade.

The Braves began to just let guys walk rather than even get draft choices and we know the Hampton saga. AOL began to cut back subtly in the farm system and we see the results. Even if they hadn’t all good things come to an end people. Time to deal with it and move on.

Liberty, while responsible to its shareholders also has a responsibility to DirectTV and its MLB channel, Can they have the Braves as losers? No, but where do they spend the money?

Sheets or Sabbathia? Look at the top starters on the top 10 teams. Of the top 20 starters how many got there by way of free agency? It’s too big of a financial risk.

Let’s go get a power hitter?? Where? Hey we just gave one up and the reason we paid so dearly for him is that power hitters are rarely available. Kotch not hitting for power will affect Chipper’s output and certainly his attitude. He’s never played on a Braves team like this one.

You’ve got to in a way tear this thing down and rebuild it. The way it was done the first time. It’s long overdue, we weren’t really in the race last year and losing a draft pick for Glavine? Couldn’t you see that coming. It’s no other choice now and if we do it right it could be just as enjoyable as the great years we’ve had.

I mean look at the Cubs and what the Red Sox had been. We’ve been lucky.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

If Tim Hudson needs TJ, will he be able to pitch next season, if he has no setbacks?

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Oh, good call DAP…that is unfortunate

By Threadkiller

July 30, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Yankees get Pudge from Detroit for Kyle Farnsworth. Didn’t see this one coming!!

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Trade Deadline will start heating up more now than being relatively quiet.

By Interested Observer

July 30, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Why would the Yankees trade for Pudge when they could have had Defensive Specialist Corky Miller?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Farnsworth back to the Tigers. Who would of thunk it?

And with Pudge a Yank, the pressure is on the Sawx to buy! Ohman has been a horse, but I like Bard’s long-term potential.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Dude, not too sure you CAN talk about 09 and beyond without discussing what went wrong the past few years. If you don’t, then the likelihood of repeating those mistakes is pretty high in my estimation (history doesn’t necessarily repeat itself-sometimes it never changes at all).

Look at how many here are already clamoring for a return of Smoltz (who knows if it’s even possible), Glavine (Let’s just hope he retires), Hampton (OH!!The Insanity-as another Denizen might have said) and Furcal (Who’s just coming off of an injury marred season with back problems), when we actually have the first opportunity in over ten years to spend some salary we’re no longer committted to with old and injured players.

Oh yeah. I’d say a discussion is definitely in order.

By crap-wheelie

July 30, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Here’s one for all of us folks who followed this team in the ’80s: Think we can break the team record for consecutive losses? It looks promising.

By Random by VanDelay© Industries

July 30, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

The Oracle: “[Why is everyone so sour on KJ?] … . Because he … strikes out too much… . Therefore he probably belongs in the bullpen.”

Yeah, I kinda wish we had someone in the bullpen we could accuse of striking out a lot. 8-)

DAP — Hear, hear!!! That’s what I was trying to say right here.

Savannah Guy: “That is the lineup that lost all of those one run games, right?”

Wrong — details forthcoming.

SG: “Since when are you the judge of credible insight [since, like, forever — gah, where have you been?] and since when were bloggers required to provide sources, build a case or support opinion or commentary with details?” Not so much required at all — merely “expected”, for their own credibility’s sake.

SG: “You prove me wrong.”

Bullsiht — that ain’t how it works. You want to make claims, you prove them (or not — who cares?). At any rate, the burden’s on you, bozo.

SG: “Ron Gardenhire? How about Chance Gardener? Your point?”

Merely asking you how you felt about Gardenhire as a successor to Cox — was that so difficult for you to understand? Isn’t that what you were discussing — Cox leaving? My understanding is that many Twins fans are more than slightly disenchanted with Gardenhire, and I think he might be a good choice for the Braves — that’s all. Just wondering what you thought — silly me, huh?.

By Mike in LA

July 30, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Looking ahead to next year these are the moves I would make if I were Gm:

Resign Will Ohman- He loves being in Atlanta and is only 30. There’s no way the Braves will find a better lefty without over trading or over spending. Offer him 2 to 3 years at 2million a year and see if he takes it, maybe he will. If not give him 3 million a year deal. It would not have a big impact in the restructuring of the Braves.

Trade Kelly Johnson and Brent Lillibridge- Kelly Johnson has a nice swing and certainly has upside but when it comes down to it he does not have what it takes to help teams win in pressure situations. Brent Lillibridge has shown flashes of what he might be able to do offensively and is already an outstanding defensive shortstop. I would try and trade them both for Matt Kemp because the Dodgers would have a need at short and second next season.

Sign Juan Riviera. An inexpensive power hitting corner outfielder who seems to produce when given the opportunity to play regulary. A low risk signing in my view.

Trade Jojo Reyes and a few midlevel prospects for Brian Roberts. Roberts is a study secondbasemen and terrific leadoff guy with pop and great speed. It shouldn’t take much to get him considering he’s only under contract for 09

Sign CC Sabathia. The Braves are going to have to break tradition and overspend on at least one free agent if they are going to get back into the Divisional race. Why not spend it on an ace Left handed starter who has won a cy young recently and is just entering his prime. 18 mil a year for 5 or 6 years should get it done. A lot, yes but the Braves will have the money and might be without Hudson they need to do it.

Assuming that Hudson and Smoltz are able to come back into the rotation next year the rotation would be:

Sabathia, Hudson, Jurrjens, Smoltz, and Campillo. Morton and Hanson can be the backups in the event of a serious injury.

The bullpen would be Gonzalez, Soriano, Ohman, Moylan, Acosta, Boyer, Bennett

The lineup would be:

Roberts 2b Escobar ss Hoss 3b Mccann C Kemp CF Kotchman 1b Riviera LF Francouer RF

Bench: Blanco, Infante, Prado, Norton, Salmons

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

DOC

Prado had a .995 Fielding % in AAA in 2007 in 87 games. Scouts deemed him as a slick fielder.

A few bad plays in the Bigs in limited roles and people label him as a bad fielder and “scared of the ball”. Some of those misplays at a position he’s not accustomed to (SS, 3rd, 1st?)

Fact of the matter is, given the opportunity to play the position as often as our savior KJ, he’d put up normal numbers in the .990 range, much better than KJ’s .978 (‘07) and .977 (‘08).

He’s outplayed KJ in 2 springs when he was supposed to be “competing” for the starting gig (354/.407/.479 in 2007 and . 342/.407/.452 in 2008), yet is still a mediocre’s backup.

Putting up those numbers yet being denied an opportunity, maybe he was pressing in the field? He’s even said before he’s trying to be too perfect.

It’s all about being given a chance to play. I’d like to see him given a chance, especially with 1 too many lefties in the lineup and while the man we all wanted to play 2nd is not improving at the field or at the plate. The season’s lost… why not finally give the guy you allowed to compete for a starting job get the shot he deserves, instead of giving it to a guy you traded to be a utility guy or one that can’t even hit in AAA?

Not fair. Shows no class.

Trade Kotsay before the deadline. Put KJ (who has OF experience) back in left: the experiment is over and teams move players to the outfield mid-season all the time. Let Prado start finally, and let Infante man 3rd when Chipper’s not healthy. Simple.

By Greg in TN

July 30, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

A few more thoughts on Tex before Casey takes a bow at the Ted tonight for the first game with a tomahawk across his chest.

I dare say Bora$ will craft a very generous deal for Tex that will make him around $10 million more per year than he makes this year. Arte Moreno will likely resign him (and at this point, I expect him to after giving up Kotchman to get him).

Tex played well while here, however I don’t see any appreciable increase on what he did either offensively or defensively, so I understand the reluctance for Liberty and the braintrust to fork over an extra $10 million dollars that could be spent elsewhere for more pressing needs (a power bat and most likely funds to acquire a front line pitcher either via trade or FA signing, which doesn’t look promising based on the slim FA pitching prospects).

Even when looking back to the 90s, when Ted was writing the checks, JS and BC were working their magic in the GM seat and in the dugout, the Braves never overpaid for players. But in that time, the economic scale of the game allowed them to continue to be big spenders.

Case in point, the 1992 team. I know the Braves use a different internal accounting system, however the best apples to apples comparison is to use the online database for player salaries at USA Today. They have the ‘92 team payroll at $32,975,333. Good for 11th in the league (our good friends from Flushing was 1st with a payroll of $44,352,002). We were around $11 million less that year. Fast forward to what is being reported by USA Today this year which is $102,365,683. Fort Knox The Bronx is the leader at $209,081,577. We are less than half of what the Yankees spend, but guess what? We’re tenth in MLB in baseball.

We were 15th in the league in payroll one year ago, again using USA Today’s database. The revenue base for the big market teams have increased exponentially in that time and since then, we’re starting to see the rise of team owned sports networks that is also increasing revenue (NESN which is 80% owned by the Red Sox and carries all of their games not on a national feed). One could make the argument that the Yankees and YES are also in the same boat even though the Yankees do not own YES, but both are owned as separate companies under an umbrella group owned by the Steinbrenners.

The Braves revenue streams are much more limited than what the Sox and Yankees have, but I also feel Liberty is doing it’s best to remain more competitive than the team was in the last few years of TW.

By Lee

July 30, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

About Daniel Bard Bard was a first round draft pick (28th overall) of the Boston Red Sox in the June 2006 First-Year Player Draft. Bard has made 15 appearances for the Greenville Drive this season recording a 1-0 record and 0.64 ERA. Bard has only allowed runs to score in 1 of his 15 appearances this season. He has recorded 43 strikeouts in 28 innings pitched, while walking four. He has allowed 12 hits this season as opponents are batting .129 against him this season. In 2007, his first season in professional baseball, he split time between Single-A Greenville and Single-A Lancaster posting a combined record of 3-7. The Orange Park, Florida resident attended the University of North Carolina.

By Marc

July 30, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

If Hudson has TJ Surgery, it would be optimistic to say he’ll have a hand in anything next season. In short, a September return might be slightly pushing it.

By Threadkiller

July 30, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

I bet Boston wishes they had offered us more for Tex now!!

By ccrider

July 30, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

I hope if Boston and the Braves work out a trade for Ohman, that they will expand it. Send Soriano with Ohman and get Boston to include Brandon Moss with Bard. Moss would be a strong leftfield possibility and we would get Soriano’s $6 Mil off the books for next year. He is to undependable and with that $6 mil we could resign Ohman and perhaps righty Dan Wheeler. Adding Wheeler, Ohman and Bard to Gonzalez and Moylan would go a long way toward a great bullpen next year!

By Random by Alchemax©

July 30, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

westy12: “The Braves typically do trade prospects to fill holes, that is a fact.”

No, what the Braves typically do is fill their holes with their own prospects, first; and then with minor league free agents and waiver claims. I believe that less than a third of their major league roster was acquired via trade. On top of that, not all of those trades primarily involved any of our prospects — eg, Soriano (HoRam), Gonzalez (LaRoche), Kotsay (Devine), Jurrjens (Renteria), Ohman/Infante (Ascanio), Ring (Ledezma). The glaring counter-example is, of course, Tex. He’s gone now, though, or hadn’t you noticed?

“Instead, you distort jb’s point, take a line out of context, and try to build your manipulative self-serving case.”

No, I didn’t distort his point — I rebutted it — nor did I take it out of context. And I fail to see how any case I make about the Braves could be self-serving — I’m neither a stockholder nor investor, just a fan.

(Except that I am getting paid by the word for these comments, what with my new corporate sponsorship and all. [Rapture© by Alchemax©!!!] Let’s do continue this discussion, shall we? And since I get paid by the word, not by the letter, I’ll be able to keep it simple for you.)

By SeaAtl

July 30, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Ouch…this si.com writer, Christina Kahrl of Baseball Prospectus, wrote an article on the Brave’s trade of Tex for Kotchman that makes it look baaaaad for us. Just another writer’s opinion, maybe, but it wasn’t a fun read.

By Tomahawk Matt

July 30, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB THANKS FOR BLASTING THE IDIOT KNOWN AS RENEGATOR

DOB KING OF BLOG AND RADIO GUESTS

GO BRAVES 2009!!!

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

OK, Chief said McCann could be out for all of this home stand, so I looked at the schedule to see who the Braves open with on the road on Monday.

OF course! San Francisco! Game starts at 10:15 PM ET!

Sheesh.

By brian

July 30, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

bard would be a great pick up - I thought he was a starter

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, since Ohman is such a ham and a pop culture quoter, can you see about getting him wired up to blog with us before he’s dealt?

By ernesto

July 30, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Whether the Braves spend like a mid-market team or a big-market team (I think it will somewhere in the middle and closer to the latter) really makes no difference about the decision on Tex.

I hope it was predicated more on “is 1b the best place to invest 20 + mil a year” or “Should we really put that much money into a guy who hasn’t shown he can put the team on his back and carry them.”

Because both of those arguments make good sense to me, unless we’re going to be up in Yanks/Sawxs payroll stratosphere.

By SL3

July 30, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Tex is no loss. Boras players are not worth the money he expects. A guy like Albert Pujols is worth big money, but Tex is no Pujols. Pitching wins championships and until we get another combo like Smoltz, Maddox, Glavine it’s not happening here. Those guys are over the hill and need to retire and we need to find a couple of power pitchers to anchor the staff. Boyer needs to go back to minors and develop another pitch. He can’t blow it by major league hitters as has been proven by his numerous blown games. Jurrgens and maybe Campillo for next year, but after that what? I am assuming Hudson will need Tommy John treatment and out next year. Who knows how good he will be after return at 34 with a couple miles off his fastball? Or he could be another Hampton. We are a long way from a good pitching staff right now.

By will36206

July 30, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Anyone heard any updates on Matt Diaz since his latest setback?

By Random by Clark's© Bar & Grill

July 30, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

DAP: “since we need a righthanded power hitter to play left field for us next year, there are are only a few free agents that would possibly work for us… . milton bradley. pat burell. manny ramirez [and] casey blake.”

Wow — slim pickin’s, huh?

I’m even more convinced now that we should trade for Ryan Spilborghs — what do you think?.

He’s got great splits against LH pitching, and his home numbers don’t seem to be as inflated as Holliday’s (ie, there’s not as big a fall-off from home to road stats for Spilly.)

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl

Ms. Kahrl makes some good points, I’ll admit, but I keep scratching my head wondering why no one can just suck it up and say that this was a good trade for both teams. I mean, really, what would she have said had the Braves not traded Tex and gotten only two draft picks? And if she is so certain that Kotchman isn’t the answer at 1B and that there was a better player available, then why doesn’t she name him.

By Mike S

July 30, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, you hear about Kool Korners closing? What a shame.

I devoured many a Cuban sandwich down there when I was at GT.

By bravesfan

July 30, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Kotsay is NOT in tonight’s lineup, take it for what it’s worth. Blanco, CF Escobar, SS Kotchman, 1B Norton, LF Infante, 3B Johnson, 2B Francoeur, RF Miller, C Jurrjens, P

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Ernesto and Lew, The one thing we now know is that the braves will not be finishing in front of the Mets. I did tell both of you back in Jan, Feb, March, April, May, June and now I’m telling you again in JULY!! I guess you never took into account that the braves were susceptible to age and injuries too. You thought that only happens to the Mets i guess.

By TheAntiMe

July 30, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

It seems to be tough times for the Braves but in the real world it is tough times for a lot of us, economically speaking. I am glad we did get Casey Kotchman as we could have done a lot worse.

Some folks may not agree (and that’s OK), but with all the crap that’s happened to the Braves this season I really don’t think we would stand a chance even if we could have added Jason Bay, A-Rod, or Babe Ruth, for that matter. The Tex trade and impending remodeling of the Braves roster, at least in principle, does make sense to me.

Again, some folks are probably not going to agree, because in a perfect world the Braves would always be on track to win the World Series. But this year, just like in that classic Country song - they got run over by a danged ole train.

For me anyway, I had become spoiled by their success every year to the point where I was hurling Braves bobbleheads up against my fireplace wall whenever they would get knocked out of the playoffs (yes, I probably need to be medicated).

Now it is kind of like watching the Braves was in the first half of my life (for reference, I’m 46) and just enjoying the fact that I had a home team to root for and hey - every once in a while they would even win which was a nice little bonus.

The point is (and yes, there is one) that, at least for me, I think these not so happy days in the Braves new world are going to have a payoff in that when they are a great team again (and don’t think that they won’t be) it will once again feel more like 1991, 1992, and 1993 as opposed to 2001, 2002, and 2003. It also will save me from committing the crime of bobblehead decapitation.

Sorry for the telling you the story of my Braves life but I do feel better now.

By Brian

July 30, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What kind of return can we expect for Ohman? Looks like up to 6 teams could be bidding for his services. Will that drive the price up?

When should we expect to hear something about Timmy’s appointment with Dr. Andrews today? No new is good news, right? If the surgery is required, we won’t get Tim back until at least this time next year, right?

Owings should have been drafted as an OF/1B type. He tore up opposing pitchers at Toolame.

By ben

July 30, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

The Braves have thrown up the surrender flag. Will the fans do the same or continue to see this AA/AAA team play at major league prices? The Cardinal fans seemed to make a lot of noise last night. You would have thought they were playing at home. After watching all the errors last night by the Braves, maybe some of them should be playing in the Rookie League.

By duh

July 30, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Kotsay (much like Chipper) not being in the lineup means nothing. They usually aren’t……

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

In other deadline news:

Cardinals get Chris Carpenter from St. Louis

By TommyP

July 30, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

I’m glued to the computer tomorrow. Great day for baseball fans.

Lew: You have to be kidding with your opinion of what to do with Smoltz. Did you say to offer him a minor league contract AT MOST???????????? Please tell me you are kidding.

How many times has Smoltz come back for the Braves? Has he ever NOT come back?

How ‘bout a MAJOR LEAGUE contract that is incentive-laden?????

A minor league contract?

You don’t disrespect the greatest pitcher in team history like that.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

July 30, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Snipper:

You’re absolutely right. There is no way the Mets could blow such a huge lead over the Braves with so few games remaining. When has anyone ever had such a catastrophic collapse?? Not possible. It’ll never happen…

By flylikeeagle

July 30, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan.. how do u know the lineup? which website shows the lineup? I appreciate it!

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

will36206—

No, I haven’t heard anything about Diaz…But I’ve seen him in the dugout.

Ben—

Of course the Cardinal fans made more noise—they had more to cheer about.

By SeaAtl

July 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Mike S - I didn’t know or hear anything about Kook Korner closing! Best Cuban in the city! How recent? I’m in midtown but haven’t been in a while….Man, the hits just keep on comin’…..

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

PTI, Around the Horn, The ESPN Network & the Wide World of Sports are all talking about the Angles being the favorites to win it all because of the Tex trade.

I also think they’re the favorites, though not because of Tex. The Angels and Mike Scioscia have a good system there. Players know their roles and the team is fundamentally sound. That wins Championships. I think Tex will fold in a playoff type atmosphere, but the team will pull together. That system can score when they need to, and their record shows it.

The Angels and Cubs would be a nice WS. Seeing how well the Cubs have played in Milwaulkee the last 2 days in a playoff type atmosphere, they’re going to be hard to beat. That’s almost how the Angels play everyday though. It would be fun. If David Stern were the Commish, he’d manufacture that match up for sure… but he’d make sure the teams play 12 each to get there.

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

SL3, you hit it right on the money. A team is anchored by pitching and defense. The combination of Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux was a nightmare for opposing offenses. brave fans need to understand and appreciate that those kinds of rotations come very seldom and keeping them together for as long as altanta did is ever rarer still.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Nothing yet on Kots or Ohman … or on Hudson, for that matter. We’ll probably get a report on Hudson during game.

The good news for the Braves today: Glavine felt very good in his sim game, three innings, 43 pitches, no pain. He’ll do a rehab start Monday for Myrtle Beach, then maybe one more before rejoining Braves.

Said he probably had his best velocity in two years today, was surprised how good he felt.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Boy, Sniper! No one cann ever say that you have no guts.

(Eye roll)

By Dan in NJ

July 30, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

I Think the Braves should focus 1st on Pitching. Need at least one more ACE during the offseason. Depending on Smoltz, maybe a #2-3type pitcher might be needed as well. As for Ohman. Trade him now(get whatever you can). Then sign him during the offseason as well. Pitching is a must.

Now, as for the offense. I love the fact Kotchman is a contact/patient hitter. So, with Chipper,Kotchman,Blanco,3BMac, and KJ (to an extent) are ALL patient hitters who work the counts/pitchers.(unlike Frenchy and Escobar). Which i believe will do fine as long as they add one power hitting LF via trade, or free agency. The Braves do have plenty of minor leaguers who they can trade. BJ, GH, JA, BL etc.

Bottom line…Spend the money on pitchers(starters and relievers) Thats what made the Braves great for so many years.

By Robin

July 30, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Is Tex Batman?

He often disappeared during night games….and now Turner Field is looking like Gotham.

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

CharlieAlpha, Lets see now. I didn’t think it was the braves that we blew it against. Was it? In fact even with the collaps we still finished ahead of the braves. If I’m wrong please tell me. Where did the braves finished last year?

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Will, Diaz got a couple of injections in his knee on Friday, said he could be cleared to play in anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks, soon as they decide the inflammation is down and he’s ready.

By Why Us

July 30, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

LF possibility, already mentioned, but worth looking at this offseason.

J. Rivera, when given the chance to play has shown power. Also important to note is that he’s played all 3 OF positions during his career. Would probably be signable for a reasonable 2 year contract?

NO He’s not the Rivers who stole stuff in the Yanks clubhouse. Yes he played for the Yanks but it was Ruben Rivera who did the pilfering.

Another possiblity is A. Dunn for a short duration. I know about the K’s but we’re living with that right now with others (yeah, it sux).

Also about Dunn, read on a site last night that he has a higher OPS than Tex! I would guess that if that’s true he might be tolerable until one of the phenoms at A/AA is ready?

By bravesfan

July 30, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

flylikeeagle - [http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/gameTrax?gameId=280730115]

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

If this were High School, the braves would win the Most Dramatic award.

Very, very entertaining season on a day-to-day basis. Better than any Novela.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

TommyP-No, I’m not kidding and Smoltz is quite aware that may be the way to go as well.

Stop and look at it like this-As of right now, No One, Doctors, Braves officials, Smoltz included, knows if he will even be able to come back, There is a distinct possibility that his career is over-something he knows as well.

Right now (actually now And over the winter), especially if Hudson is out, we must make decisions about how to formulate the rotation for next season. With Smoltz not having an inkling until next Spring Training whether or not he can go to the post, just how in the world can you offer Smoltz a contract or figure him into your plans?

If, during Spring Training, it becomes apparent, or even a distinct possibility that he WILL be able to go (and believe me, I would never count Smoltz out of anything), then you offer him a minor league contract. If he needs more time before starting the season, he’s covered and can do his tuning up in AA or at Gwinnett. If it then progresses to the point where he will be called up (likely for a role in the pen), then he gets paid a higher amount, all of which was negotiated beforehand.

Now after it was determined that surgery would indeed, be necessary, Smoltz, in full awareness that it might be career ending, did an interview with DOB, where he said he realized that IF he were to come back, he knew it would be at a much reduced rate. A minor league contract would cover that and be easily converted to a ML contract if and when the time came.

No disrespect to The Bearded Icon, just reality and practicality. You can’t figure him into your plans or you run the risk of picking up Mark Redman again on the spur of the moment. We all know how THAT one went. don’t we?

By Interested Observer

July 30, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN, the Marlins are in “serious” discussions with the RSox for Manny Ramirez. Jeremy Hermida would probably be the main piece going the other way.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the news on Diaz, Chief!

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

In the clubhouse, Ohman had on Pepperdine football t-shirt with “Still Undefeated” on the back. But he put a piece of white athletic tape over the word undefeated and wrote in black marker, “here.”

As in, “Still Here.”

Oh, well, it was funny if you were there.

By Why Us

July 30, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

About signing C.C. Sabathia, which I would love if it’s possible.

However!

A few days ago saw an article/item on one of the sports sites or paper or wherever, can’t remember exactly. Not sure how accurate it might be but it mentioned why the Indians sent C.C. packing for now, it was his demands for a new contract.

Seems he wants more than Santana, feels he’s better.

Santana got 6yrs 137.5M from the Mets. Seems C.C. wants 7yrs 140M according to the article.

Do you think that’s the type of contract Braves will pass out?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

I read the Braves were 8.5 games back in 1858, July the 30th to be precise. They proceeded to trade for a 1B and a pitcher, then caught fire and made it to the playoffs……didnt win the WS though……..lost game seven on the road 2-1………Oppppssssssss looks like 1 run loses have been here forever.

By flylikeeagle

July 30, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan..thanks for the link

By MC

July 30, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

For all the griping about Tex trade. Who with you rather have right now…Salty or Kotchman…I’ll take Kotchman. Marek could wind up being as good as any of the pitching prospects sent to Rangers. Plus, we had Tex for two pennant drives- it just didn’t workout. Great trade

By Glamour

July 30, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Dan from NJ

Prado looks to be a patient bat too. Hits many doubles, takes walks, hits ball to oppo field.

Very nice stats, .408 with RISP. Good OBP, SLG. Avg is down a little, but when I watch the kid he’s has some pretty nice AB’s. Looks pretty sound up there. Think KJ can be traded for some pitching or in a deal for an outfield bat?

By BravesFanChris23

July 30, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Very interesting if Marlins land Manny.

By bravesfan

July 30, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

flylikeeagle, no problem.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Too funny! Man, that guy is a card!

I hope we keep him.

By Jeff321

July 30, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

I was hoping someone could quiz the “defensive specialist” on what happened last night? I mean, having paltry offensive skills is one thing.. but stinking it up on defense is another. I would think that would totally “cancel out” Corky Miller and he would get moved to the concession stand.

By Marc

July 30, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Talked to Kotchman, DOB?

By brian

July 30, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

is it just me or does Ohman look like Mike Stanton

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Why Us

I think Braves have learned their lesson………nobody is worth that kind of commitment……..specially not a pitcher that young that has not shown he is as durable as an oak……I mean………durable was nolan ryan…….maybe even clemens……glavine………. For what we know…….CC is not a veteran with 8 years under his belt with no innings missed in that span.

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Someone mentioned Ryan Spilborghs. Good bat in Colorado, with no position to play. Although if they deal Holliday, he would be the obvious replacement.

Would the Rockies be interested in a KJ upgrade at second base? If so, what would it take to get both Spilborghs and Baker. Baker would be a great uber-utility man. All 4 corners. Both are right handed.

What say ye, denizens?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

How sick is the fact that ASTROS, PIRATES AND REDS all have better records than us……….

By tr

July 30, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Shaun (from 2:55 post)

I don’t really think that how those traded players turn out is really relevant in the big scheme of things.

Sure, those kids could turn out to be great, but that’s not the point. At the time of the trade, none of them were a part of the Braves major league plans.

Salty was blocked by McCann. Elvis was blocked by Yunel. The other two were so young they weren’t on the major league radar yet. But they represented a huge upgrade (through the trade) at 1B on the major league club.

And I’ll take Wren’s word that he made a competitive offer on a long term deal in the spring. It wasn’t unreasonable to expect it to be considered, even by an agent I refuse to acknowledge.

And if you judge the success or failure strictly by a world series appearance, then there are only two successful teams every year. The rest are miserable failures.

The Braves made a strong move. But due to so many other factors (a highly unusual number of injuries being the greatest) it didn’t take us where we wanted to go.

But can you imagine what things would’ve been like WITHOUT Tex???

Ouch!!!

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Hex is one of the leagues most talented hitters, no doubt, but I can’t consider someone who doesn’t hit till June one of the league’s most complete overall hitters. Wouldn’t “complete” encompass hitting well for the entire season? There’s a difference between talent and wire-to-wire production. As good [or great] as his numbers are, just think how good they’d be if he showed up in April. He’s an underachiever in that regard.

By bravesfan54

July 30, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Brian (3:18) - what’s this “selling Infante” to the Dodgers all about? I am sure you have mapped this out to the journey’s end, but, I don’t see the logic in it. Then, again, your post was hardly the one I should have picked on, but I just thought that Infante was among the few consistent performers on this team and deserved to be kept, but that was a just a thought - good performance, reasonable salary, you stay!

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

You are observant DOC….

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Isnt there any team interested in Corky for the final stretch ……… Maybe we can deal him and get some ACE.

By Efrim

July 30, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Quick!!!

Theo Epstein has lost his mind!!!

Someone has to help him.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Merely asking you how you felt about Gardenhire as a successor to Cox — was that so difficult for you to understand?

Random, I read your post earlier on the last blog and I see that it’s been dragged over here. It gave me a headache both times.

But since you seem interested, I have no opinion on Gardenhire replacing Cox. Sorry. It hasn’t even shown up as a blip on my radar. But feel free to post your thoughts on the subject right here. I’m sure you’ve studied the situation and have a well formed and reasoned opinion to share.

Now, about your attitude: I seem to remember you being a pretty funny guy at one time on this blog. Have you turned into an obnoxious twit or are you just playing one on the blog?

You might try insulting someone else who is more your speed. Perhaps you and Sniper can get yer ya ya’s out on each other and you can set him straight. Not many things ripe for your humor than a homeless Mutt Sniper that can’t shoot straight.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Im not sure if anyone else noticed this……….but a big part of TEXs failure was that he was not aggressive…. what I mean with this is that in my mind there is a picture of him taking the 3rd strike with tons of RISP……….He got tons of bad breaks on most calls………..but, he put himself in that situation……..he has a very good knowledge of the strike zone……but he has to understand that his eye might be better than the umps eye, therefore they were missing lots of calls………

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

LEW, Ernesto, D!ck Holliday, how’s it feel to have to root for a team other than your own to accomplish what your team could not? You thought it would be the braves that would finish on top over the METS didn’t you? So are you gonna morph into a Marlins or Philly fan? LETS GO METS!!. I’ve got some love for you too DOB. You have the rest of the season to dream up a crap load of IF’S and MAYBE articles that will keep your reader misdirected and coming back for more…..LETS GO METS!!!

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

This is interesting about Jeff Kent. And then the little running tally Simers keeps on AJ…

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

The Dodgers have a center fielder we could get for Corky. The name escapes me…

By BostonBravesGirl

July 30, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

On the Sox pre-game radio show, Gorden Edes, DOB’s very good counterpart at the Globe, said Ohman might be attractive to the Sox. Didn’t catch all of it, but the Sox are working hard against the Rays and the Yanks, and may be willing to swap a couple of prospects for Ohman.

The Sox have a well-stocked farm system and could use a strong addition to the bullpen for a successful run in their division.

I wouldn’t trade Ohman for out-of-his-mind Manny; I think the Braves would get the short end of that stick!

FYI DOB, Edes is leaving the Globe to take a job with Yahoo sports. Any interest in moving north?

By DirtyDawg

July 30, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

This is changing the subject a bit, and it may have been cussed and discussed earlier, but…I don’t like the fact that the Braves get the crap knocked out of them, at bat or in McCann’s case at the plate, and nobody seems to even make an attempt to retaliate. I don’t care what the announcers said about Victorino, or however he spells his name, ‘running’ over McCann. He was trying to hurt him if he could. Once again he had the opening and the opportunity to slide away from the tag but made his mind up to lower his helmet and shoulder and lower the boom on Brian. Don’t know if anybody recalls, but earlier in the series Uttley came into home and threw an elbow at McCann’s head, only he missed.

My point is, nobody, not a pitcher, not a manager, not a coach, not an everyday player, seems inclined to ‘send a message’ back to these guys. I was begging Boyer to throw one at Victorino at his next at bat. If started a fight, so be it. But no, the Braves just don’t do it, and it p** me off. You can call it just hard nosed baseball, but it involves a choice and so does letting the other side know that if you ‘choose’ to take one of our guys out, we’re gonna ‘choose’ to do the same thing in return…it’s only ‘just baseball’ if both sides play the game.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Wiper is from New Yawk, he’uz born rude and obnoxious. Bet he has that disgusting nasal voice too. GRRRRRR

By fifthbusiness

July 30, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Why the crying about the Tex deal. The Braves had better young players at every position in the five they gave up.

They could reload with draft pick or trade if it didn;t work out and that played out.

All the nay sayers should remember that it is easy to do until you actually have to do it.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Just posted a story that will be up in minutes: HUDSON told to have Tommy John surgery by two doctors who’ve seen him. No word yet from his Andrews exam, but it’d be very surprising if Andrews recommended anything different.

He’s been told to have it now, so that he might be able to pitch the last couple months of the 2009 season.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

I vote that Wiper be banned from ye ole blog! Any second motions!?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

Spilborghs and Baker. That’s more like it. I’m a fan of both guys, but yes, it may be tough to pry away Spilly unless the Rockies believe they have someone else on the farm who can step in when Holliday is traded or walks.

Dang, they have a lot of depth in position players.

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

DOB is Kotsay getting some rest tonight due to his back or is he close to being traded. Because I would have to think he would have been a better choice verses a RHP than Norton to bat clean up. I know Kotsay has little power, but he does come up with some timely hits.

Oh and Corky is starting again? Really!! What a crying shame!!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Problem with getting Spilly now is that he’s on the DL with a pulled oblique and has not even started hitting off a tee yet. If such deals are even allowed, acquiring him would be a slight gamble.

By Sid

July 30, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

For those who are hoping to see Jason Bay in a Braves uniform, it’s sounding more and more like he’ll be wearing a Rays or Red Sox uniform this time tomorrow. It all depends on if the Sox can move Manny to the Marlins tonight. If they do, Bay goes to Boston. If Manny stays in Beantown, Bay goes to Tampa. That leaves us with a Diaz/Blanco platoon for next year. Ugh!

By keylargo

July 30, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

just saw tex being interviewed before the LAA/RedSox game. His words. In just one day I gained 19 games in the standings. Going to the World Series is what it’s all about.

I guess that’s why his azz has never been to the playoffs.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

We obviously look at things a little differently, however I’ve always enjoyed your posts and respect your opinion.

Greg in TN - I’ll choose respect over agreement any day of the week. Appreciate the comment.

Chop Chop Thanks. Yep, I guess I was on a rant, uh, roll there. Just that settling for mediocrity and/or giving in gets my goat. Yet, given all the givens with the Braves, the injuries, the budget and the expectations and such, recent events are not at all surprising. Still, who better than fans (particularly those that blog) to demand excellence, raise the bar and inspire the club? Just callin’ like I’m seein’.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

tr: Well put.
But can you imagine what things would’ve been like WITHOUT Tex???

I wonder the same. Not so much that the deal was never made, but what if he had been dealt prior to the season start? Would that have returned more, say Kotchman and Saunders? If so, this team would be sitting well right now.

By DonCoburleone

July 30, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

DOB I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, but who do you see as a possible suitor for Mark Kotsay?

I can’t find one… Maybe the Twins if they decide to send Carlos Gomez back to the minors. Thats about the only team I could see having interest no?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Fart 69

There is no need for us to become fans of any other team……..your muts know very well how to do the job by themselves……. sure you know what im talking about…… so sit and enjoy MELTDOWN PART II.

Hope you have HDTV, so you can watch real close the faces of the muts players and fans while the meltdown occurs……

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Teixeira jerseys are 50-percent off at the stadium. Kid you not.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Get well quick, Huddy. If the surgery is successful, he may throw even harder on his return which means he’ll be filthy.

Guess Wren’s shopping list got a bit longer.

By keylargo

July 30, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Here’s the results of Tex’s first AB for the LAA.

He’s adjusted his cup 4 times before he gets in the box.

He drills one about 400 ft into CoCo Crisp’s glove. Three outs

By DonCoburleone

July 30, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Wow, Hudson needs Tommy John, thats a freaking tough blow… Could this season possibly be a bigger disaster for the Braves?

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Hey Texas, don’t forget that Corky is a potential .100 hitter!

By StingerSplash

July 30, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Tex flied out to just shy of the triangle in center field in his first at-bat as an Angel. Sox announcers said he picked up 19 games in the standings in going from Atlanta to Anaheim.

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Shamus Slacker, Go call Hudson and see if he might need your witty humor to get him through this difficult time.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the news… but honestly, I’m so frickin bummed I’d like to strangle the messenger. No offense.

DAMNIT ALL!!!!!

This really, really changes things for the off season… I know Payne is all hard up for KJ but if moving KJ brings back a solid starter, it should be done. Pitching is needed in the worst way and I don’t want to sit through another season of watching Reyes, Morton, James, Carlyle or which ever kid is hotsh!t of the month, struggling to make things work.
Add to it Jiar’s potential shoulder issues… I hope that kid is healthy by seasons end and super healthy for all of next season.

DAMNIT!

So I guess this means Coach’s new name will be more along the lines of Go Braves 2010??

By Tony Austin

July 30, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Tex for Kotchman and Marek. Genuis. The 1B of the future the Braves have needed for a while at a fraction of the cost. Wren has made very quality trades so far and he has won all of them.

Let’s pull for this team, stand behind them, go see them if you can, and let them know even if this season is lost, they are our beloved Braves!!

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Lew Your 6pm post was dead on. I might not have been completely clear on my thoughts on Smoltz. NEVER would I count on him for 2009. If he were able to return any time next year, in any capacity, then I would consider that the cherry on the banana split.

You were pretty tough on my statement about Hampton. I was in Houston when he came up, so I have some strong feelings for Mike. He is a bull dog. Not sure why he has come across such terrible health luck. (‘roids??)

Let me restate when I would offer Hampton an incentive laden contract. If he came back and looked like the old Mike for the next two months, then I would offer him a contract, not that he would accept. NEVER would I count on him to be anything but a 5/6 starter, IF everything fell into place.

I would almost be willing to offer a similar deal to Glavine. If one of these guys ends up with a decent finish to 2008, then ONE of them might be a minimal contributor next year, if needed.

Lots of factors would have to fall right (or wrong) to make one or both of those guys an offer. I would not pitch them if I had a young guy (Morton, Reyes, James, Hanson, etc) who could give me the same performance.

To be honest, I don’t think either Hampton or Glavine would accept that type of offer, but if Wayne is the GM, that is what would be offered/sold to them.

Again, I don’t expect others on the blog to have the same feelings I have for Hampton, considering my earlier experience with following him.

Why is Corky Miller in this game????? I know, Bobby likes to give a guy a chance to get back in the saddle after falling off the horse, but we need to give Sammons a chance to show what he has. Don’t we already know what Corky has???

McFann Did you hear the rumor that the Red Sox turned down a McCann for Manny trade, because they didn’t want another “head” case.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

One thing is being out of it……….but playing Corky…….that is so ……….sorry……i rather not use the word.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Hudson needing surgery… now you look back on that sudden loss of velocity earlier in the season and wonder…

By Halloweenhead (eware)

July 30, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

This Huddy thing is bad news bears….

Man, I’m really upset now. Our rotation for next season is not looking so good.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, Kotsay was scheduled to have today off. Cox said so yesterday. he’s sticking to his original plan coming out of break of trying to keep him healthy by resting him some.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Interested Observer

Nice comment at 4:44.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

DonC: Could this season possibly be a bigger disaster for the Braves?

We coulda resigned Andruw…

By JC FROM UT

July 30, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Rumor has it that Manny Rameriz is going to Florida for amongst other Josh Willingham. Any way to send Ohman and KJ to Boston for Willingham and Bard

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Worst Braves player this decade:

Woodward???

Orr???

Corky???

Thorman???

Langerhans???

Id say corky ……….anybody thinks different?

Followed very close by woodward and then orr

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Shamus you are probably right, Corky is too high profile of a player for the Braves.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Thanks for the news on Timmy. That really stinks.

DirtyDawg—

Yeah, I know what you mean—just creaming the Fillies the next time the Braves face them will be good enough for me. By that I mean scoring a ton of runs and not giving up even half as many!

I was thinking—Cann you imagine what seeing that happen must have been like to McCann’s wife? Eesh…

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Somebody from Elias needs to look up the lowest batting average for a position player who spent an entire season on a Major League roster.

It’s almost as if Cox is starting Miller just to anger the fans. And it is working, very, very well.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Not that I’d love this over and above all else, but I do like that Kotchman advanced a runner. Would have rather had a hit, but at least he didn’t just leave him on second.

By Tex fanatic

July 30, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Oh great. Kotchman makes an out.

Tex would have hit that pitch out of the park.

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

DonC It’s called “snake-bit”!

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The Braves will end up having to donate those Tex jerseys to a third-world country.

There will be some kid in Nicaragua that will grow up being the biggest fan of the Atlanta Braves’ mighty T E I X E I R A.

He will also have a leg up on any blogger here that never knew how to spell “Teixeira.”

I Live For This.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul

Good point there about huddy……… and that is what i keep saying……..braves players get too many “bad” injuries……….Id say at least half of them could have been avoided.

Hey Braves just got their power OF………..he is hitting cleanup tonight……..

By SNIPER-69

July 30, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

D Holliday, You might want that HDTV as well so you can see the braves pitching up close next years without Hudson……..

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Id say corky ……….anybody thinks different?

Pratt set the bar pretty low as well.

By prattfall

July 30, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Todd Pratt may have been about as bad as Corky.

Craig Wilson wasn’t so hot either.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Doc

I’d say Corky would challenge for worst full season by a position player in Braves franchise history.

To think that we actually traded away a player so that he could play is beyond insane.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

With Huddy out for 2009……..is it a good idea to sign Hampton???

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Wren has made very quality trades so far and he has won all of them Tony

He has won most of them.

Kotsay for Devine was a wash at best. Never should’ve gotten the injury prone CF after trading for Anderson, someone he said was ML ready.

The Anderson trade was a good trade BTW….too bad Anderson’s been stuck in AAA. Blanco’s been tearing it up lately though….hopefully this becomes a consistent thing.

By TheAntiMe

July 30, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

I found a pretty good story on Ted Turner and the Braves, surprisingly enough, on Philly.com after following an interesting link provided by Bobby’s Cox about the Braves on Yahoo.

(http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/columnists/20080730BillConlin_BravesnotthesamewithoutTed_Turner.html)

I thought that the following comment made by a Phillies fan was kind of interesting:

Posted by PhillySubsMac 12:57 PM, 07/30/2008 “Another history lesson but at least it was entertaining for once. Sure that Edgar Renteria was one helluva loss - he brought them the new Jair Jurrjens, who has ‘Cy Young’ written all over him. If their corporate ownership sucks that bad(like a certain local who-are-they bunch), well I’d still take John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox on the worst day of their so-called demise.”

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Andrew, Mark, JB: I guess I should’ve been clearer in what I wrote about McCann. I wasn’t saying that McCann was arb-eligible; I wrote “raises for McCann and others who are arb-eligible.”

Add a comma after McCann and a “for” in front of others, and you get my meaning, perhaps? Just bad wording.

Should be, “raises for McCann, and for several Braves who are arb-eligible.” Something like that.

Anyway, since we’re on the subject:

McCann’s contract included a $1 million signing bonus and a $500,000 salary in 2007, $800,00 in 2008, $3.5 million in 2009, $5.5 million in 2010 and $6.5 million in 2011.

His 2012 salary is at least $8.5 million, but could climb to $11.5 with escalators. There’s a $12 million option for 2013 with a $500,000 buyout.

Other technicalities in the deal assure McCann should make at least $27.8 million.

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Also good news on Bobby Cox

He was able to have a bowel movement today without pain and without resorting to heavy doses of laxatives.

So there is tremendous progress in that area.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Now JF decides to drive in a run………….LOL

Did he hate TEX or something?

Or was he just waiting for the Braves to give up in 2008.

By Robin

July 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe the gods are smiling on us now? Sac bunts abound, Frenchy drives in a run …..Whoa!

By InCognito

July 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Payne, think the Sox would be interested in Tex if they trade Manny tonight? That’s right, we will never know. Again, not saying it was a bad trade, but no need to make it when we did. Play it out like Texas did last year and then take the best deal.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

Pratt and all the other guys that Doc mentioned at least hit .200. Miller is hitting below .100 and has two errors and three passed balls in 23 games behind the plate. Miller is beyond bad. He is awful.

By will36206

July 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

CoRKY can bunt!!!!!!

By Supes

July 30, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the Hudson update. Personally, I think this is a vicious and cruel blow to the Braves chances for 2008. I wouldn’t count on Timmy at all for 2008 now.

Darn, whatever did the Braves organization do the baseball gods to pi&& them off so much in 2008?

This is just beyond words…all of these nightmarish injuries.

Looking to 2009, Braves will have to acquire not 1, but 2 starters now. Either through trades, or FA signings. One of them has to be a first tier type starter that is a proven ace.

All we’ve got in the Braves organization right now are: (for 2009 signed)

1. JJJ 2. Campillo 3. Reyes 4. Morton 5. C. James (possible Hanson next year)

Safe to say that rotation will not do. Maybe they bring back Hampton (if he proves he is still serviceable in the remainder of 2008).

Now you need 2 starting pitchers…thankfully there will be plenty of money to spend (unless LM decreases the payroll).

Starting pitching just became the Braves biggest need…going into the season, if someone would have made a bet with me about this rotation and told me that in August Braves would be in that much trouble…I wouldn’t have believed it to save my life. Darn, how things can change.

Oh, and welcome to Atlanta Casey Kotchman. I hope the fans at the Ted gave him a nice ovation.

By jb

July 30, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

He’s been told to have it now, so that he might be able to pitch the last couple months of the 2009 season.

DOB

Carpenter is coming back off Tommy John and it took him 16 months. Why should we think Huddy could come back in 12? I was under the impression if you had Tommy John, that was at least a 12-16 month recovery.

By Saltywoody

July 30, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Gotta chime in on two things.

1. Kotchman is a great pickup, whether or not Marek pans out. He’s a player much more in the mold of what Braves’ 1st baseman usually are…good defenders, decent sticks, gritty guys. It was nice to have the luxury of a power-hitting, known commodity like Tex…but when the guy doesn’t come up with the timely hits and just piles on at the end of blowouts, it’s not worth the price. Like the trade a lot. To turn Tex, a one-year rental, into your starting first baseman for the next four years at maybe only a slightly lower lever, for 1/19th the cost…that’s what a good GM does. Well done, Frank.

2. Agree with the few posters who have said Huddy’s decline in velocity earlier in the year makes one think twice now. Absolutely devastating news that he’ll probably require TJ surgery. Hate to say it, but I wish it were Hampton.

3. I’d trade Ohman for some prospects now, but try like hell to resign him in the offseason. Mahay I can see letting go at age 37. But Ohman’s way younger, was incredibly reliable, adds the levity that the Braves probably need in the clubhouse, and was the one stabilizing force in an otherwise schizophrenic bullpen all year long. He’s worth $4 million a year, or at least way more deserving of it than Soriano is of his $6 million or Hampton is of his $87 billion. Know that’s not saying a lot, but still…reward the guy.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

did clorky just bunted the ball ??????? isnt jair hitting behind him?

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Wayne—

Har har. That’s a good one…

BTW—Just saw McCann in the dugout! Whoo-hoo!

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

If the #8 hitter is going to bunt the ball and give the chance to the pitcher to drive in the runs……….why not bat the pitcher 8th???

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Correction

Bobby Cox simulated a bowel movement today. His doctors say he won’t be ready for an actual bowel movement until next week.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

How does Boras handle young players?

Would he be open to the idea of the Braves locking up Jurrjens to a long-term deal, or would he ride Jurrjens’ success for 3-4 more years to free agency?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen the BIG SMILE TEX has in that picture on MLB.com……….as he is in halos uniform???

He sure does not miss the braves……..LOL

Go check it out………..its on the home page………MLB.com

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Supes,

Wanna know what the Braves did to incur the wrath of the Baseball Gods?

They spent all the built-up good karma (and then some) from all those awful years in the ’70s and ’80s on a fourteen-year run of greatness.

The bad karma’s just been building up and waiting to crash down on their heads.

(You know, if you believe in karma.)

By jtb

July 30, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else think its funny that Bobby had Corky bunting to advance the runners with Jurrjens up next?

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What do you think about the Pudge pickup by the Yankees? With them dealing Farnsworth, does that seem like a Ohman deal to the Yankees might be on the table?

What do you think about a Melky for Ohman deal? Way to much??

By Strike One

July 30, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Assuming Hampton and Glavine are able to pitch the rest of the year without injury (big assumption, I know), does the Hudson situation increase the likelihood that either one will be offered another year? Hampton had pretty good stuff on Saturday, for a while anyway, and he was sharp last spring. I can’t believe I’m even contemplating it, but I’d much rather see him out there than JoJo or Charlie.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

RedEyedAndBlue: I’m not going to get in a big debate on who sucks worse. I was just tossing out a name that was missing from the choices. I think Pratt sucked enough to be given the honor of at least being listed.

By proeye

July 30, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

SHOULDA TRADED HUDSON! COULD HAVE HAD MADE A MINT OFF OF HIM!

TOO LATE NOW…. ;-)

Wow, to see him go down like this is just shocking. And I thought this season was already shocking. Guess the Braves are really paying for those lucky final two division titles when the team really had no business winning.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

JB, that’s what the word “might” means. He MIGHT be able to come back in 12 months. Like Mike Gonzalez just did. And like Paul Byrd did when he was here.

They want him to have it now so he MIGHT be able to pitch at the end of the ‘09 season. But he might also not be ready for 13-14 months. it’s case-by-case, but plenty have come back in 12 months.

Since it’s the last year of his contract, you can imagine why he might want to try to get back and pitch some at the end of the season.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox,

I doubt we’d want to lock up JJ to a long term deal. He is pretty cheap as it is, and we’ve got him already for at least 3 more years for very cheap.

Why lock him up to a deal and gamble that the injury bug won’t strike?

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

DOC

I think it’s a good idea to sign hampton, assuming he stays healthy the rest of the year. I’d give him 2-3 mil, no more, unless there are performance incentives. I think he’d take it considering how much he’s made.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

After mentioning Langerhans………….following question just came up……. Is JF better than Langerhans???

He is really starting to look alike.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Will Ohman is hilarious. The braves should keep him just for comedic value…they’re gonna need it these last 2 months.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

All,

I’m pretty sure the bunt by Corky was just to try to keep him out of the double play.

It worked.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

That was dumb!

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Directv has changed their channel lineup again and they’ve taken away that helpful little reminder that tells you, when you turn to the old channel, what the new channel is. I guess they thought I would remember. I can’t even find the damn Braves game.

By Greg in TN

July 30, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Cue the MASH theme now. It’s going to make things interesting in terms of whether we’ll be able to get a top tier pitcher to make up for having Huddy out for most of next year.

Not sure how this will play out, but we might see some combination of Hampton, Glavine and/or Smoltz back next year, that’s taking into account Smoltz’s shoulder once he finds out if he can come back. It would have been easier to cut ties and move on with Huddy breaking camp from Dark Star next spring and ready to start the year with JJJ, Campillo and perhaps a mid-level acquisition for the rotation, but with Huddy out for most of next year, options are now more limited.

Nice bunt in the second there by KJ, and Boog and Joe both gave kudos to Ed Mangan for the assist and rightfully so.

Is it me or does Jim Joyce behind the plate make one think of Dutch Rennert?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Melky for Ohman????

Are you nuts???

Will he bat clean up???

If Melky is the answer……….what was the question?

By Interetsed Observer

July 30, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

You know, it might be fun to watch Manny in Florida. I can’t see Fredi putting up with his slacking off.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

Yeah I’m not looking to debate either. I’m just p** Miller’s even on the roster, much less playing tonight.

I mean if you have so much confidence in your eighth place hitter that you bunt him to get to the pitcher, why not use other options (Sammons).

By jb

July 30, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

DOB

Fair enough.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Tex giving the Angels a taste of his clutchness:

K’s after a leadoff double by Izturis.

But Vlad picks him up with a RBI single. 1-0 Angels.

Nice to see Frenchy tap one to the pitcher with bases loaded, 2 out.

By duh

July 30, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

DOB would any team be stupid enough to take Glavine and Hampton right now? Any chance we are going to see several guys moved including Francouer, Ohman, Kotsay, Johnson, Gonzales, Soriano, or Infante?

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, Does Glavine have a no trade clause attached to his contract? I wonder if the Yankees would be interested in picking him up. He has a history of pitching in NY, and they always like that.

Just trying to think outside the box if we are trying to go for 2009. I doubt we are going to try to resign Glavine, and there is no use pitching him now when you could bring up Hanson or someone close to give him a shot.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

run heap run

The game’s on 646.

By Interested Observer

July 30, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Wow. According to ESPN, the potential Ramirez to the Marlins deal would be for Hermida (or maybe Willingham), Ryan Tucker, and Mike Stanton.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I know I’ve asked alot of questions, but how would Huddy’s insurance coverage work if he tries to come back to pitch next year? Will insurance cover just the time he misses, or is it for the entire year of the contract?

Also, what would you consider the over/under on us signing a nice FA pickup like Sheets? We obviously need a #1 or #2 starter now.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

By the way, Braves haven’t named a starter yet for Friday, but could be Chuck James. He’s pitching well at Richmond.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Bay to Boston, Hermida to Pgh, Manny to Florida?

Holy crap.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080730&contentid=3225286&vkey=trade2008&fext=.jsp&cid=mlb

By will36206

July 30, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance the Braves start limiting JJJ’s innings or at least skipping a start from now to the end of the season? He is going to be a big building block for this staff in the future and I think the Braves need to guard against overuse.

By Supes

July 30, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Hudson can be counted on for 2009 is not being realistic.

You could pencil him in for 2010 (I know it’s an option year, mutual option year, right?)

Glavine just said on TV he needs the last 5-6 weeks of the season to pitch and prove that he is healthy, and to figure out if he wants to pitch next season…

DOB if Glavine comes back healthy, what kind of 1 year offer would the Braves do or would they even want him back given the age/injury factor with Tom in 2008?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Manny can be Manny before thousands of fans disguised as empty seats.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

TEX———————0 for 2 with a K………….and by the way………as I mentioned before………..he was called out on strikes………..he insists he knows the strike zone better than umps………..I think he has the lmajors highest ratio on

called out on strike/ swinging K

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Wiper, you can fall outa Shea and be famous! I’m sure there are hordes of Nu Yawkahs who’d assist you.

By Mike

July 30, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Braves have a lot of solid relief prospects now:

Rome

Kimbrel

Pruneda

Myrtle Beach

Gearrin

Fellman

Mississippi

Marek

Medlen(he is 5’9”, I can’t imagine him being a starter)

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Not sure how this will play out, but we might see some combination of Hampton, Glavine and/or Smoltz back next year,

10Greg, I hope not. Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton should never pitch another game for the Braves after this season. It is time to move on.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Noobie

Because if we don’t lock him up, then with Boras as his agent, we’ll lose him to free agency.

Is it better to pay more for him now, (though less than he’d get on the free agent market) than risk losing him later?

If you haven’t been paying attention, some smaller budgeted teams are doing this - Tampa with Longoria, Milwaulkee with Braun. The kids are happy cuz they’re making more than the minimum, and the teams get to keep them past their otherwise FA years. It’s a win-win.

Maybe Jair, being a long time braves fan growing up, wouldn’t leave, but you never know with Boras.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Noob, I think Glav signed for one year.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Just off the rumor mill:

Manny Ramirez to the Marlins for Jeremy Hermida. The Sox then trade Hermida (an Atlanta product) and a high pitching prospect to the Braves for Tex and move Youk to left.

What’s that you say? Wren panicked and traded Tex already for Kotchman who as far as I know not one other team had their eye on.

Oh, what could have been.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Man…….. they just played a flashback on FSN that shows what happened to Huddy.

He was pitching against the fish, gets the 3rd out of the inning and starts walking toward the dogout, shaking his arm. He starts talking with teammates and Porter about his elbow…….but then………lightning strikes………MIKE HAMPTON touches his elbow and asks him……….”Does it hurts here???”

That explains the unexplainable….

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Doc Holiday,

Melky isn’t that bad. Last year he hit .273 with 8 homers with 73 RBIs. Getting out of NY would bump his average by at least .020 points, and he plays a pretty decent center field.

I know he is having a horrible year this year, but the fans are on him hard… kinda like we are on Frenchy.

I think that Melky and Frenchy have about the same talent level and upside. They are also both very young and cheap.

By i cant take it anymore

July 30, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

so. we may have seen the last of hudson as a brave. that’s it. whatever.

By Jeff321

July 30, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Cox calls for the infield in and fails yet again.

By Robin

July 30, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

What’s Ankiel all jacked up on greenies for? With an ab strain, that can’t be too good. I dunno.

By duh

July 30, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Ramirez traded? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/manny-ramirez-2.html

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox,

Longoria and Braun aren’t pitchers, either. Pitchers are much more likely to get hurt…. IE Hampton, Smoltz, Glav, Moylan, Soriano, Huddy, etc., etc.

I personally wouldn’t even try to lock him up on a long term deal to at least year 3. What happens if he signs a 6 year deal tomorrrow, and then turns into Jorge Sosa for the next 5 years?

Come on, man. Pay the dude $300,000 or whatever until you can’t anymore, THEN offer him a deal. You just can’t work the same way with pitchers as you do with OF/3B young hitters.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Lightening just about struck my house a minute ago. Why do I picture Hex cramming a Shamus Thacker Voodoo Doll into a light socket?

By Dr. Andrews

July 30, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

will36206

You are just a tad paranoid.Xanax?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Poor Kotchman………..I can tell what is going through his mind right now……….. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE….!!!!!!????

Hey SNIPPER could you please give an update on the muts game for Ernesto and Lew, please. Im sure they will thank you for that.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Boston is going to get more for a 37 year old Manny Ramirez than the Braves got for Teixeira…….

By jtb

July 30, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

WELCOME BACK FRANCOEUR!!!!!

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Anders

The trade for Kotchman was a very good trade.

Tex has 2 months left on his contract. He’s already playing political contractual games with the Angels, stating that he’ll talk about contracts when the season is over, i.e. when he files for free agency.

The Angels may have a very good chance of resigning him given their relationship with Boras, but they’ll have to pony up the cash.

Kotchman looks like a good hitter. Doesn’t K too much, which has been a problem with Braves 1st basemen. He’s cheap, and was the Angels MVP before being traded. It was a solid deal.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

TEX 0 for 3 with 2 K and 3 LOB

By Greg in TN

July 30, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

My gut feeling is that Smoltz is done. Not sure what Glavine will do, however Hampton will want to pitch again. Chuck James is an option. I’ve seen Tommy Hanson last year and this year and I feel like he won’t be in a position to help until 2010 at the earliest, but he’ll be the real deal when he hits the big club. Reyes has been inconsistent at best as has Morton, but we can chalk that up to their youth. I don’t remember if Bennett is under contract to us for next year, I know Carlyle isn’t, but we could sign them if necessary.

Regardless of whether we go after a top tier pitcher through the FA market or by trade, it will cost dearly.

Great catch by Francoeur against the right field wall to end the inning. Superb.

By Jeff321

July 30, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

WOW, great catch by Frenchy! Just about knocked himself out on the wall!

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Whoa! Nice catch, Francoeur!

By jtb

July 30, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Anders

What exactly have your Mets done to improve themselves? I’m sure you’ll come back with some smart remark about how at least the Mets aren’t sellers like the Braves, but last time I checked they’re not exactly running away with the division and they’ve done nothing to improve themselves.

By duh

July 30, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Epstein and Boston just fleeced everyone for a 2 month rental head case…. shrewd move

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Anders, yes, Braves f*** up on that one.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Noobie

Melky is a 4th outfielder at best. Not much bat, decent outfielder, no speed. The Braves would be crazy to make that deal.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

SNIPPER

I´ll do the update on the phillies game for you………..phillies are winning 7-3.

So much for you 1st place blah blah blah. Its down the drain……… Is the meltdown already starting?

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Noobie

Nice response. Never thought of it that way.

However, if Boras allows his pitching prospects to hold out for more money before they even throw a pitch in professional ball (Scherzer and Weaver to name a few), what will he command for JJ?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

6:24pm: MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro is hearing about a three-way deal that would also send Jason Bay to the Red Sox. Hermida would wind up in Pittsburgh.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Why dont we stay with Infante and ship KJ and JF for a power OF and some pitching prospect.

By will36206

July 30, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Dr. Andrews I’m not paranoid just thinking cautiosly. Young pitchers who over extend their innings pitched from one year to the next tend to have sore arms and off years. Besides you of all people should know benzodiazepines are not good for paranoia. SSRI’s, lithium, and the like are much better!!

By Anders

July 30, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

jtb

Maybe you missed the news but the Mets traded some of the prospects most on here told me they didn’t have for Santana.

They still have a top 20 prospect (Last I checked the Braves didn’t have one of those) that many covet but there’s nothing worth him on the market.

They’ll pick up an over priced pitcher who clears waivers after the deadline.

Certainly not running away with it but doing much better than most on here thought they were capable of.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Biggest ovations Francoeur’s gotten in months, when he came off field after that great catch and when he came to bat just now.

By Heath

July 30, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

….I’m getting a little worried that we have less than 24 hours left until the trade deadline…and Kotsay and Ohman are still on the team. What is the likelihood that the Braves end up keeping these guys because they waited too long get trade talks going?

By InCognito

July 30, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Haven’t I been saying that since yesterday? Again, there was NO need to make the trade yesterday. NONE. You never know what’s going to happen. I like Kothman, but it was ain stupid to make the trade when we did.

By InCognito

July 30, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Haven’t I been saying that since yesterday? Again, there was NO need to make the trade yesterday. NONE. You never know what’s going to happen. I like Kotchman, but it was plain stupid to make the trade when we did.

By Couch Tater

July 30, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Joe Simpson said “Corky’s due.”

YA THINK?

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox,

Alot. Correct me if I’m wrong, but we command him at whatever we want for 3 years. Then, he is arb eligible for 3 more years. Then, he hits FA.

So, after the first 3 years, I’d make him a 5-6 year contract offer above what he’d see in arbitration to see if he bites. If not, I pay him peanuts for 6 years and then take my chances.

However, to answer your question:

If JJ continues as he is, back up the armored bank truck.

By Mike

July 30, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Anders

They still have a top 20 prospect (Last I checked the Braves didn’t have one of those) that many covet but there’s nothing worth him on the market.

Heyward bro.

J-Hey.

By J.L.

July 30, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

It’s pathetic to have Corky Miller up with the bases loaded!

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

My gut feeling is that Smoltz is done. Not sure what Glavine will do, however Hampton will want to pitch again. Chuck James is an option Greg in TN

I also think Smoltz is done………Glavine too………and also think Hampton will continue to fight for one more chance….

Watching Corky hit is painful………Im sure infante could catch or maybe prado………..no way they would be worse……….. Do Braves executives really respect Braves fans??? if so……….why is corky on the roster??? There is no chance in hell he is the best they can do…………..

By h_charles

July 30, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

DOB — What do you think the odds are that the Braves will actually ink a real #1 with Huddy done (Sabathia, Sheets)?

Also, given that the offense, not the pitching has been the real problem this year, how exactly will this team contend?

We just downgraded the offense with Kotchman. They won’t touch Frenchy. Add Chipper, Esco, and Mac, and this is the same lineup that couldn’t score when it mattered this year, minus Tex’s power and OPS. So, unless they abandon the KJ experiment for a real 2b bat, that really only leaves LF/CF open, meaning VAST improvement is needed. With Blanco playing his way into one of those spots, that would leave one spot open to not only make up for Tex, but greatly surpass him offensively for this team to improve at all over this year, outside of an upgraded bench. I’m talking Berkman kind of numbers.

How exactly do you see this team improving massively offensively for next year?

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

InCognito

I like Kothman

You know with the right speech coach you can get rid of that lisp.

By Andy K.

July 30, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

FRANK WREN::DO NOT TRADE WILL OHMAN! He is good for the chemistry of this team, plus, he has a great arm. LOCK HIM UP FOR 2 YEARS, then go from there. I think I speak for a multitude of Bravos fans when i say this. Please?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Heath

We are not getting anything for Kotsay……….everybody knows he might not make it to october……..and not precisely because he plays for the braves.

By Jerald Holcombe

July 30, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

In what fantasy world do you have to wake up in to find yourself hitting .090 over the course of the season and still hold a job making $400,000? Corky’s career average is less than .180. Is Wren trying to tell us that he is going to get better? Or, is he telling us that there’s no one else available that can give us more than 1 freakin’ hit per month. If Corky wasn’t on the roster, you’d more than likely see him in a soup line somewhere.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Doubt we can deal Glavine anywheres, but I’d love to see us try to deal Glavine, Kotsay, and Ohman to the Yankees for Dellin Betances, Jose Tabata, Ian Kennedy, and maybe some A baller.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

DOB

Biggest ovations Francoeur’s gotten in months, when he came off field after that great catch and when he came to bat just now.

Maybe that’s because he’s the only player on the Braves the fans actually recognize these days?

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

MLB.com:

“I’m going to tough it out,” Hudson said via a text message.

Looks like Huddy will try and tough it out and cost the Braves all of 2009. Makes sense, too late in the year to get back at any point next year.

Maybe rehab will take care of the problem.

Jurrjens, Campillo, and…………………..yup, that is your 2009 rotation.

By Jeff

July 30, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

At what point does Bobby and the front office realize that Corky is not a major league catcher? He is now 5-54 for the season. They really continue to look bad with every out he makes and now especially with McCann hurt does it show a huge blunder not trying to find someone else at the start of the season. But he is here for defense, right. Who made the throwing error that led to the loss last night? Just curious.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

What about signing John Thomson again…………..Where is he……….Ive been searching……..last news about him I could find was……… FA november 1st 2007.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

Mike

What’s Heyward rated and where? Not saying you’re wrong just wasn’t aware.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Not sure quite what to think of Kotchman

On the one hand, you gotta like the K/BB ratio. And if you look at ‘05 and ‘07 you’re reminded of Mark Grace

On the other hand, his OBP this year is poor (despite maintaining a decent K/BB - it’s what happens when you only draw walk every 21 or so plate appearances) and smells more like Sean Burroughs

In any case, I always like a good K/BB ratio in a young hitter, and getting a guy who has proven himself to any degree in the bigs for Tex was a coup

Put it this way - he’s far better than Chad Tracy. I’d have rather gotten minor leaguers than Tracy

The arm that came in the deal is irrelevent. My guess is they threw him in to get us to keep Cox (I had to say it)

And I ask again - Why is Dorky Miller on this team? (frickin bases loaded and who comes up - Dorky)

By stynes

July 30, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

The we’ve got bad luck and have a lot of injuries drum has been beaten ad nausem. Not that I disagree, it’s just that everyone knows that. The question is why have there been so many injuries?

In the last few years I can count the following Braves players that have had TJ surgery:

Smoltz, 2000 Byrd, 2003 Spooneybarger, 2003 Hampton, 2005 Johnson, 2006 Bennett, 2006 (minors) Gonzalez, 2007 Lerew, 2007 (minors) Hudson, 2008 Moylan, 2008

The last couple of years have certainly been busier. Why, though? Certainly that’s a general trend in baseball but is the rate of increase in Atlanta any different than other teams? Anything to do with differences in routines from Mazzone to McDowell? I know Mazzone’s theory was throw, throw, throw. Does McDowell do things differently that could potentially contribute to the increase? How about the strength and conditioning coach that was mysteriously let go mid season this year? Was he slipping Hampton DNA into people’s koolaid?

What gives? Why can’t people stay healthy?

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Can you smell trouble? I wouldnt let Albert get another look at Jurrjens in this game

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

How are the Red Sox getting a very good young player in Willingham or Hermida, and two of the Marlins top 5 prospects for Manny Ramirez, who is going to leave via free agency after this season? Manny is 37.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Noobie

you’re correct. If last year counts as ML service though, then next year is his last before being arb eligible.

That would make sense to offer him a contract then. Nice respectable argument. I agree with you.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Anders

Sorry about that. Forgot to congratulate you and your Mets on such a fantastic trade and the very affordable contract that was given to him. Let’s not forget that last off season the Braves traded for Jair Jurrjens, who has a better record and an era only .10 points higher than Santana’s, and Gorkys Hernandez (a top 100) prospect for Renteria, who has not had nearly as good of a season as Escobar. Along with the fact that Jurrjens has put up numbers just as good as Santana’s, he’s also making 16,204,216$ less this year. So yes, great trade. Sorry for my very foolish previous post.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

h_Charles

What do you think the odds are that the Braves will actually ink a real #1 with Huddy done (Sabathia, Sheets)?

Uhmm, how about zero? Have you not been following the program? Players tools required by Braves mgt - Must be controllable for next three years, must be cheap, preferably from Ga, must profess to love Bobby Cox. Ability to genuflect to Chipper and Smoltz is a definite plus.

By Coach (100 losses in 2008?)

July 30, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Well, according to Jason Stark, The Marlins are discussing Jeremy Hermida (2002 1st round), Ryan Tucker (2005 1st round) and Mike Stanton (2007 2nd round) for Manny Ramirez.

I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen. Because if it does, it would make Frank Wren look like an idiot. The Marlins would get Manny for two months and trade three top players/prospects. Comparing that to what Atlanta received for Tex and the Braves have cream pie all over themselves.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Anders

I have to admit you made me laugh …….

TEX is 0 for 4 with Vlad hitting behind him………not good.

Izturis and Vlad (in front, behind TEX, respectively) are 4 for 7 tonight.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Who didnt see that coming?

You let the best hitter in the game have a FOURTH look at a rookie starter who is now 100-plus pitches in

Cox is a JACKASS!

By stynes

July 30, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Manny’s not in a walk year. There are club options for 2 more years at $20m per, if I remember correctly.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Anders

http://www.scoutingbook.com/prospects/11-20

They have Jason Heyward ranked at #13, 2 spots above your beloved Fernando Martinez.

By NCBravesFan

July 30, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Anders I can’t figure out with your 8:21 if you’re trying to be a smartass, or if you really are as big a dumbass as lot of folks on here seem to think you are.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

jtb

The Renteria trade was a good one for sure, but I’ll take my chances with Santana. As for the payroll, well the Mets are still $100 mil behind the fellas who play 8 miles away so we kind of have to spend some just to get noticed in town.

Don’t blame me because the Braves owners run things like a school system on never ending austerity. Maybe you guys could have a car wash to raise money for some starting pitching?

By Steve from OH

July 30, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Anders, Heyward wasn’t (I believe) a preseason top 20; however, Keith Law stated in one of his chats that he is definitely a top 5 or 10 guy now. I’d expect Tommy Hanson and Freddie Freeman to be in or near the top 20 next year as well.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Robert

You are talking like if Cox didnt make the right moves this year……….LOL

By THIS JUST IN

July 30, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

Theo Epstein gets a good young player in Josh Willingham, double A pitcher Ryan Tucker(think Tommy Hanson) and low a right fielder Mike Stanton(think Jason Heyward) for 2 months of Manny Ramirez.

Frank Wren couldn’t get a decent prospect back in the Teixiera deal.

Damn shame.

By prattvillenolzfan

July 30, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB

QUESTION

I know Wren is the GM. Cox is the manager, but how much influence does Bobby have in roster decisions…..

What I’m getting at is who’s decision is it to keep Corky on the roster…

If it’s Cox’s and Cox’s alone, at what point does Wren step in and say enough is enough….His BA is BELOW 100

If it’s Wren’s decision, Bobby needs to speak up and say NO MAS

If it’s mutual, JS needs to get rid of both of them….

I’ve been very hard on Franceour and Hampton, this is my first post on Corky, but this is really getting to be an embarrassment for the Braves.

He supposedly is known for his defense, but yet every game, he’s allowing Wild pitches, or giving up passed balls

He supposedly is known for calling a game, but his last 2 starts (not including tonight) have been blowouts…During those games, location by pitchers was not the problem..pitch selection was

He has never been known for his offense, but he is hitting 093….

enough is enough

By ncscoots

July 30, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Hudson, you bum…you will now cause 96% of the bloggers here to begin every post with “Braves need pitching”, from now until whenever Wren does something about it. Have mercy, son, it could be the winter meetings before that happens! That’s a low trick to pull, for a good ole boy.

Meanwhile, every pitcher with a pulse will get mentioned here, from Buerhle and Burnett to Yusmeiro and Zambrano (I admit it, I’m reaching for the back-of-the-alphabet names…sue me).

This actually IS one of those times when the needs of the team are clear (even to bloggers). But, no kidding, Wren has probably figured it out, too. Resist the temptation to remind him 86 times a day.

By edward

July 30, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

I beg…No, PLEAD. PLEASE DO NOT GET BAY FROM PITTSBURGH. I live here. I have seen him play. No one here likes him because he is underachieving. You get the feeling he expects gems and just shrugs when he doesn’t produce. He is not that great at the plate or in the field. We can get better than him for ohman right??

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

stynes

But Manny does have a no trade. There’s speculation that he’ll ask for full release at the end of this year to waive the no trade. Not sure how he can pull that off but I did here it talked about on ESPN.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

When the Braves are down by a passel of runs, he runs thru every reliever in the pen for no apparent reason.

And on the flip side when the kid Jurrjens has pitched well enough to not lose, he leaves him in there to hang against Pujols

If Cox has a functioning brain cell between his long floppy ears, it’s wired in reverse

That Jurrjens vs Pujols at bat brought back painful memories of leaving Maddux in to hang against Brosius in ‘99

(Not comparing Brosius to Pujols either)

Hey OBrien - go ask some of the Cardinals who they pick for Manager of the Year. (they’ll answer when they stop snickering)

Frickin nauseating to watch Cox manage

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

When the Braves are down by a passel of runs, he runs thru every reliever in the pen for no apparent reason.

And on the flip side when the kid Jurrjens has pitched well enough to not lose, he leaves him in there to hang against Pujols

If Cox has a functioning brain cell between his long floppy ears, it’s wired in reverse

That Jurrjens vs Pujols at bat brought back painful memories of leaving Maddux in to hang against Brosius in ‘99

(Not comparing Brosius to Pujols either)

Hey OBrien - go ask some of the Cardinals who they pick for Manager of the Year. (they’ll answer when they stop snickering)

Frickin nauseating to watch Cox manage

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox,

Not a problem, man. I think that if JJ is being considered for ROY honors, then last year doesn’t count as a year of ML service.

I actually suggested earlier that we should trade Ohman for Melky. Now that I think about it, that is stupid.

We already have 4-5 4th outfielders IMO, and I suggested we trade one of our good pieces for another one. I was wrong, too. :(

Seriously, though: Blanco, Infante, Kotsay, Francour, Norton, Diaz… are those not ALL 4th outfielders on most of the contending teams for any division?

Besides Andruw of the Dodgers, I can’t think of one team that I would take out one of their players and replace with any of our outfielders. Not one, including the Yankees with Melky.

Kotsay would perhaps be the exception, except for his bad back. That makes him a good quality 4th outfielder because you can’t count on him to be a starter… to play every day.

So, can anyone think of another contending team that needs any of our outfielders?

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo.

By Steve from OH

July 30, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

I’m only talking about Keith Law’s top 20 and Baseball America’s top 20, for what it’s worth. I didn’t go back and look, but I don’t think he was ranked top 20.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

NOW we get Boyer.

Comedy. And I can picture the post-game

“Well gee shuckey darn we hit the ball hard but right at-em”

If stupidity were a crime, Cox would be serving 1000 consecutive terms on death row

By Random by UBIK©

July 30, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy: “Now, about your attitude: I seem to remember you being a pretty funny guy at one time on this blog. Have you turned into an obnoxious twit or are you just playing one on the blog?”

Yes, I can very well imagine that it’s not at all funny to be openly called on an unreasoned, unsupported and illogical rant such as yours of earlier today. But them’s the apples, boyo — live it or live with it.

(I notice that you have not attempted to assassinate the characters of the several other commenters, much nobler and well-established and more highly esteemed than me, who also took exception to your delusional ravings.)

SG: “But since you seem interested, I have no opinion on Gardenhire replacing Cox. Sorry. It hasn’t even shown up as a blip on my radar.”

So, you’re going to pull a Robert on us? You say to get rid of Cox, but you have nobody at all in mind to replace him? You do realize, don’t you, that Robert has never gone out on a limb on this issue either — all he will say is anybody but Valentine or Hargrove would be better than Cox. Are you really so eager to follow the standard of the poster boy for monotonic obsession? (Or are you Robert?)

SG: “So, I won’t even attempt to tell you how I would restructure the team… . I’ll leave the player trades and details to you guys.”

Ah, yes — so much easier to destroy when you can abdicate responsibility for rebuilding. Shall we re-dub you Re-Dub?

By Gary

July 30, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

This just in…..Manny also has 2 options left on his contract which the Marlins could pick up if they wanted too, so NO, it is nothing like the Tex trade where he is gone in two months. People get over it, Kochman was a very good pickup.

By Robin

July 30, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks Boyer ……. thanks a lot! You hack!

By Anders

July 30, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

NCBraves fan

Actually neither. I think the Braves could have been in this Manny three way deal. What would you rather have - Jason Bay and Youk or Tex and Youk? I know my answer. Not saying it would have definetly happened but I can say with almost 100% certainty that Kotchman would still have been available tomorrow at 4:00, so what was the hurry?

By MEB

July 30, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Duck everyone… Boyer is on the mound. YIKES!!!

GO BRAVES!!!

By Section 412

July 30, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Man, Boyer sucks right now. I guess he spent his arm being overused in the first half. He will be next in line at Dr. Andrews’ office.

By kris

July 30, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

OMG Boyer just gave up another home run. Booby, just put the pitching maching up there-geez

By Robert

July 30, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

And with a little more improper utilization of the pitching staff it’s now 5-2

A random number generator would pick the right in-game move more often than Cox does

Far more often

By kirknga

July 30, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Can Boyer PLEASE get a freakin day off???

How close is Acosta to returning?

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Wow with Boyer thowing like he is can we really aford to lose Ohman? Of Course Blaine could be worn out throwing as much as he has. But still!!

By Heath

July 30, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

With all this trade talk Dave…I’ve got a perfect trade idea…and I mean perfect. How about any and all players that the Marlins want from us…including us paying their salary…for…wait for it….wait for it….the guy that decides which prospects to get every time they make a trade! We could be World Series winners in about 3 years….think about it.

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

What do you expect from a big tub of goo.

If Ohman is worth $3+ million per year then Blaine Boyer is worth considerably more if he is rendered for petroleum products.

By Scott from Fairburn

July 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

I would go ahead and make a reservation for Boyer to see Dr. Andrews in the near future … his arm is about to fall off from the bullpen abuse

By JEB

July 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Mystery question of the season: WHY is Corky Miller on this team??

Sammons is the future - Corky is the past! What is the deal??

The Braves wasted and lost more money on Redmon - and they let that money go in a hurry! Why are they hanging on to the contract they have on Corky for? He sends them further into the red every day he is on this team.

By JC from UT

July 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Boyer needs to be shut down for the rest of the season and stretched out over the winter and turned into a starter.

By Gary

July 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

I love Bobby, I really really do, but how many games in a row is he going to pitch that no talent hack of a Blaine Boyer. How many times this year has he put the Braves out of a game? Un-freakin-believable!

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Does every single big hit Boyer gives up come with two strikes? I need to look that up. Uncanny.

By the way, Huddy’s gonna wait a week to decide, if you haven’t heard. But I’d be very surprised if there’s anything different in a week. Sounds inevitable to me.

By prattvillenolzfan

July 30, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Hey Noobie

So, can anyone think of another contending team that needs any of our outfielders?

My question is can you think of another contending team that WANTS any of our outfielders……

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

We don’t need no water. Let that Blaine Boyer burn. Burn, Blaine Boyer, burn.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Anders

One more thing about prospects, the Braves have 7 in the top 100 while the Mets have a whopping 2.

The point I was trying to make about the Santana/Jurrjens comparison is that why pay someone 16+ million (and that number will only increase as the seasons go on) when there is someone out there making 390,000$ with the same kind of numbers.

And maybe the Mets should try winning a World Series, or even make it there, to try to get some attention in their own city.

By Jack G

July 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

What are the odds on how long it will take TP to screw up Kotchman’s swing

By steve

July 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves have to be the worst managed team ; playing Miller is a joke, Boyer is a joke, pendleton and cox are a joke , norton in left is a joke, should I go on.

By Jack G

July 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

What are the odds on how long it will take TP to screw up Kotchman’s swing

By TNJeff

July 30, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Is Cox purposely playing Boyer to avoid another 1 run loss? So instead of losing 3-2, looks like it’ll be at least 5-2.

Hmmmmmmmm

By The City Of Pittsburgh

July 30, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Edward

I beg…No, PLEAD. PLEASE DO NOT GET BAY FROM PITTSBURGH. I live here. I have seen him play. No one here likes him because he is underachieving. You get the feeling he expects gems and just shrugs when he doesn’t produce. He is not that great at the plate or in the field. We can get better than him for ohman right??

Please stop. You’re embarassing the whole city with your complete inability to follow the actual trades being talked about.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I bet Frenchy is front and center for the media tonight. lol

By Jerald Holcombe

July 30, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I’m not one of those people that continually pile on Bobby Cox. I happen to believe that he has been exceptional for the better part of his career as a manager. But, he does do one thing that absolutely drives me batty. The way he religiously goes through the bullpen every year and completely wears these guys arms out. It’s amazing. These pitchers are decent hurlers, but when you keep sending them out there day after day while others sit and never go out, it’s makes no sense. If Bobby doesn’t have confidence in those that are sitting, then they shouldn’t be here. Seems to me that the only year that our bullpen was not overworked was the year that every pitcher performed lights out and we had the best pen in baseball.

By Bobby's Cox

July 30, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Heyward, Gorkys Hernandez., Hanson, and Freeman may all be in the top 20 at some time next year.

20% of the top 20 by 1 team (3.33% of ML teams), after giving up 5 prospects last year…..not too bad Anders

By THIS JUST IN

July 30, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

This just in…..Manny also has 2 options left on his contract which the Marlins could pick up if they wanted too, so NO, it is nothing like the Tex trade where he is gone in two months. People get over it, Kochman was a very good pickup.

Each of those options are more than the Marlins payroll. Can I have what you are smoking? They aren’t picking up the options. They are taking the draft picks.

By Anders Mom

July 30, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Anders, did you have your STD’s treated? And stop picking at those scabs!

By DAP

July 30, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

now that we know hudson’s situation, getting some good pitch should be our first priority, followed closely by getting a power bat for left field.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Wayne-Don’t take it personal, Dude, there’s several others who irrationally think there might be a role for Hampton next year, too. It’s just time to admit it might have been good having Mike pitch for us, but didn’t work out and that’s it. No incentive laden contract with codicils stating he can’t brush his hair or bend over to tie his shoes or let his children come within arm’s reach.. Just be done with him even being considered a Braves’ pitcher. If he pitches again in the bigs, let him be someone else’s concern and not ours.

You’re usually rational. I’ll just chalk this one up to misguided sentimentality.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Boyer the (Braves) Destroyer

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN, the Marlins reportedly want the Red Sox to throw in a prospect in the deal and that’s a sticking point. Also, Wren got a decent pitching prospect.

Also Mike Stanton is probably not a Jason Heyward. Stanton was not as highly regarded and so far in their very young pro careers, Heyward looks better.

A lot of scouts thought Heyward was the best hitter in the draft last season.

Steve from OH, Baseball America had Heyward as the Braves’ number two prospect.

By JC from UT

July 30, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

maybe the French one has something against Tex. It seems to me JF started telling off last season when Tex arrived and now he is starting to turn it around after Tex leaves. Probably only a coincedence?….

By jed

July 30, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

news on hudson is un. real. what an unbelievable year.

and somebody needs to tell bobby cox that the season is over. there’s no need to burn up boyer any further. i thought that was obvious to all, but nope…there’s boyer out there again. if bobby cant stop himself, why doesnt mcdowell say something? ridiculous.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Angels are Hexed….

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Boyer needs to be shut down for the rest of the season and stretched out over the winter and turned into a starter.

Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo. He needs to be turned into hair pomade.

By ncscoots

July 30, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Guys, major league service isn’t determined by calendar years, re Jurrjens. A major league “year” is a number of days in service, 170-something, I think. So, at the end of any specific baseball season, players with three “years” of service are arb-eligible. Super Two players can go to arb with fewer than three “years”.

Main point is that days-in-service is the criterion, not calendar years.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Holy chik-fil-a cow! Sounds like boston may actually pull the trigger on Manny. I never thought they would…doesn’t make a lot of sense but I guess if they’re sick of him, they’re sick of him.

“Boston is not stupid. They’re not going to do it. They can say whatever they want. But when it comes to make a deal, they’re not going to pull the trigger, because they know what they’ve got here”

That’s what I thought too, ManRam. Now I’m not so sure. There sure is a lot of buzzzzzzzzzzz.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Come on muts…………..there still hope……….only 2 outs………

Heads up SNIPPER

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Different Take

did you read this too?

An MRI exam performed in Atlanta on Monday showed damage to the ligament in Hudson’s right elbow. This prompted his visit to see Andrews, who suggested that they wait at least a week before determining whether the ligament replacement procedure is necessary.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

If stupidity were a crime, Cox would be serving 1000 consecutive terms on death rowRobert

And I ask again - Why is Dorky Miller on this team? (frickin bases loaded and who comes up - Dorky)Robert

Splendid. More wit and wisdom from the basement bard.

By TNJeff

July 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Kotsay always pops up to left - he doesn’t even have warning track power. who would want to trade for him?

By NCBravesFan

July 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Anders Your earlier post says Hermida to the Braves. I’ll take Kotchman.

Wren made a good trade - if the Fish think that Manny will help them get to the postseason - they may be sadly mistaken. They could really use more pitching if they are serious about playing deep in October.

Given that, unless the Sox cover a lot of salary, I’ll be surprised if the Marlins pick Manny up.

By JEB

July 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Anders What good would the Braves have in getting Manny?? The talk to trade him did not even start until Sunday. By that time we were already in a hole and needing to look to the future. Manny would have been good for a playoff run, but if we were not going to sign TEX long term, then we definetly were not going to sign Manny long term. Florida is only getting him for a 2 month playoff run. Manny will NOT sign back with Florida - (he has already said so) so Fla. is losing the most long term in the deal.

Manny may NOT be the thing Florida needs in their dugout. Manny does what Manny wants and he is not going to change in Fla.

To say Wren got in a hurry on the trade (to consider Manny) is not a very well thought out critique of Braves management.

Also, Red Sox have flat out said they are not moving Youk!

By Reid in EAV

July 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Apologies to Joe Simpson, but Corky is never “due.”

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Hey you just got mentioned on air, DOB .

Although, Bowman posted a story about an hour ago saying that Huddy wants to wait and see.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080730&contentid=3225452&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&cid=atl&partnerId=rssatl

I’m sure its inevitable either way. This season is lost, he might as well go ahead and do it.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Toyer and Dorky are quite the intimidating battery..

Wonder if Terry Pendleton and Dorky have met? Terry should be fired and arrested for fraud.

By Section 412

July 30, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Random thoughts - Frenchy actually looks like he MAY be figuring it out (baby steps). JJJ is REALLY good - thank goodness for that trade. Can’t understand AT ALL why Corky is playing. Corky sucks and he is not part of any future - why not let Sammons get a little time in at the big league level? It really makes no sense at all. I’m a fan of the Kotchman trade, especially given the circumstances.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

prattvillenolzfan,

Exactly my point. There isn’t any.

And it saddens me. Like, you kicked my dog sad. Like kicked my dog in the head so hard it died and I came home to find my dead dog and you in the bed with my wife and Gregg Norton and maybe Corky Miller or some other random fat dude that can’t hit a fastball kind of sad.

:(

Sad.

By i cant take it anymore

July 30, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

not really anything good to say about boyer right now.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Here’s your chance to make a big splash, Krotchman…er Kotchman.

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Boyer sux, which everyone can see, except his manager. I don’t blame Boyer one bit. If my boss abused me like that, my work wouldn’t be good either.

By Gary

July 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

DOB…..yes, I can clarify that for you. About 98% of the hits Boyer gives up are with 2 strikes. He has two pitches and most hitters know now that he tries to strike them out with a fastball that has no movement whatsoever. Time to teach this kid a curveball.

By BostonBravesGirl

July 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Just so everyone knows what a head case Manny is, here’s a lovely bit from boston.com covering yet another whiny interview on ESPN: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/07/mannyunloads_o.html

Sure he can hit but he can’t field worth a hoot (anyone catch his giggly under-the-butt catch last week?) and he’s a spoiled prima donna (is that redundant?).

FYI, he does live in Miami, and would probably approve the trade, so if it could be worked out, the feeling in Boston is that he will be traded to the Marlins. But I can’t see how the Marlins could afford it.

By kris

July 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Red Sox may get Jason Bay. Makes me sick how the Red sox and Yankees can get whatever player they want-while we do nothing. Bay would have been great here.

liberty Media paying fo Matt Holliday is the only way I will ever have hope for this team unfortunately :(

By Greg

July 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Wow! This team stinks. And it’s going to stink next year, too. Back after the seventh game of the 1991 Series, I thought we would go back to stinking. It took 17 years. We have been truly blessed with some great Braves moments in those 17 years. But now, the bad times have returned. We need three proven Major League pitchers under the age of 35, or we can’t hope to compete with the Mets and Philes. Jo Jo Reyes isn’t going to cut it. Too easy to hit. Morton shows promise, but he needs command and another pitch. Here’s hoping that Chuck James used his time in Richmond to learn a third pitch, otherwise Friday will be a horror show. Wouldn’t it be great if Casey Kotchman could say what he is really thinking. Poor guy just got traded from the best team in the American League West to the worst team in the National League East. That’s gotta hurt.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

jtb

And maybe the Mets should try winning a World Series, or even make it there, to try to get some attention in their own city.

The Mets were in the series in 2000. You may remember that one. The whole thing was played in NYC.

Just winced - didn’t ya?

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Hudson said he is going to play with it this year. Questionable decision if you ask me.

By gotigers72

July 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

DOB -Regarding your comment on Victorino plowing into McCann in your blog of a couple of days ago. You stated it was a “hard but clean play”. I have to disagree. It was a legal, BUT DIRTY PLAY. That is twice since McCann has been a starter that a runner has bowled over him. I think the other was Darrin Erstad. Both times he had to miss games. The first time, his ankle remained so bad that it affected him for the remainder of the season, and thus hurt the team. This time it again has hurt the team. With a guy hitting .093 taking his place, that is obvious. Plus there is no telling how it will affect him when he comes back.

I know BC is dead set against throwing at players on purpose, but if Victorino does not get one in the earhole, I will be sorely disappointed. Yes it would be on purpose, but what he did was on purpose also. He said so himself. He said the only way he thought he could score was to knock the ball loose. That is a cheap, dirty play. I thought it was when Pete Rose did it to Ray Fosse [in a glorified exhibition game no less], and the same for any runner with built up speed running over a stationary defender. And if Victorino is not at least thrown AT, runners will continue to do it to McCann with no fear of reprisal.

What in hell is Corky Miller doing on a major league field? Why has Sammons not been catching? He has 1 hit which is 1/4 of Corky’s hits for the year, and Sammons did it in only one game.

Find a place for Infante to play regularly. He can play the game! And keep Ohman. He would be a big piece for the rebuilding job that will be done, plus he wants to be a Brave!!

By keylargo

July 30, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Did I just hear Joe Simpson say TH was going to tuff it out this year? WOW WOW WOWOW!!!

We will need him a hundred times more this time next year than now. Get the operation now and come back next All Star break!!!!!!

By THIS JUST IN

July 30, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Also Mike Stanton is probably not a Jason Heyward. Stanton was not as highly regarded and so far in their very young pro careers, Heyward looks better.

Stanton has a better OPS than Heyward by a healthy margin. I thought you were a stat guy. Nothing other than the K’s shows me that Heyward is better. And I thought K’s don’t matter. Outs are Outs.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Lets do a bet…………

SNIPPER is already in his basement……..hiding from braves fans………crying like a little lady………be a man………

By Steve from OH

July 30, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I was talking about top 20 overall. Was he? I’m not sure, too lazy to look up right now…

By gotigers72

July 30, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

DOB -Regarding your comment on Victorino plowing into McCann in your blog of a couple of days ago. You stated it was a “hard but clean play”. I have to disagree. It was a legal, BUT DIRTY PLAY. That is twice since McCann has been a starter that a runner has bowled over him. I think the other was Darrin Erstad. Both times he had to miss games. The first time, his ankle remained so bad that it affected him for the remainder of the season, and thus hurt the team. This time it again has hurt the team. With a guy hitting .093 taking his place, that is obvious. Plus there is no telling how it will affect him when he comes back.

I know BC is dead set against throwing at players on purpose, but if Victorino does not get one in the earhole, I will be sorely disappointed. Yes it would be on purpose, but what he did was on purpose also. He said so himself. He said the only way he thought he could score was to knock the ball loose. That is a cheap, dirty play. I thought it was when Pete Rose did it to Ray Fosse [in a glorified exhibition game no less], and the same for any runner with built up speed running over a stationary defender. And if Victorino is not at least thrown AT, runners will continue to do it to McCann with no fear of reprisal.

What in hell is Corky Miller doing on a major league field? Why has Sammons not been catching? He has 1 hit which is 1/4 of Corky’s hits for the year, and Sammons did it in only one game.

Find a place for Infante to play regularly. He can play the game! And keep Ohman. He would be a big piece for the rebuilding job that will be done, plus he wants to be a Brave!!

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Where’s WIPER? Jump outa Shea on his tiny head?

By brian

July 30, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Mike Stanton is the real deal. Big guy who can run and field. Great swing. A lot of power. I believe he still leads the South Atlantic League (Rome’s league) in HRs. If you check out posts above I was begging any Brave executive who may read this to try and pick him up. Of course I said trade Ohman for him which Florida would have laughed at, but he would be a huge pick up for Boston for the future.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Just to make it more clear on haw bad JF has been………

He has 9 HR……….While Jose “anemic” Reyes has 12…………Keep it up Jeff.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

think the Sox would be interested in Tex if they trade Manny tonight? That’s right, we will never know. Again, not saying it was a bad trade, but no need to make it when we did. Play it out like Texas did last year and then take the best deal.

Why? They aren’t trading a Youkilis, Ortiz or Lowell. Why would they need Teixeira?

Anders, what makes you think the Red Sox would have been prepared to trade Youk along with Manny and replace him with a guy with two months on his contract who is going to command a huge deal?

If the Red Sox trade Ramirez, it’s because they are getting three young players and know they have offense to spare.

So all these people that say the Braves could have dangled Tex in front of the Sox if they trade Ramirez, I don’t think the Sox would have bitten.

Replacing Ramirez with Willingham would not cause panic in the Red Sox. That’s not as much of a drop off as some of you think. Especially considering the Sox already have a great offense and the Sox would be reportedly getting three quality young players for one aging star (or maybe an aging star and a prospect).

If the reports are true, I think this is a no-brainer for the Red Sox (meaning they should do it), as long as they don’t have to give up one of their top three or four prospects.

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Apologies to Joe Simpson, but Corky is never “due.”

Yes. Corky is due for a flea bath.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

BC, really needs to give Boyer a couple of days off. Or the same thing will happen every single time.

By Robert S

July 30, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Just heard, but can’t confirm as of yet, a bigtime blockbuster between the Pirates, Red Sox and Marlins.

Marlins - receive Manny Ramirez, a prospect from Boston, and cash

Red Sox - receive Jason Bay and John Grabow

Pirates - receive Jeremy Hermida and three prospects - two from Florida, one from Boston

If this is indeed true, then wow. That’s all I can say - just wow.

By kris

July 30, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

KEEP JOTCHMAN AWAY FOR PENDLETON!! (they just showed them talking) lol

Joe just said hudson wants to tough it out. Is that even possible?

By A-ville Ranger

July 30, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

I wonder if ”on or off the record”,any insider has ever said a popular manager with great career success should retire ?

What I have heard over and over from baseball people is.This Braves team makes many more mistakes than in past years.

It doesn’t end there either.Many commentators,whether on Braves broadcast,ESPN or elsewhere have implied this team doesn’t execute fundamentalLy like a well prepared and motivated team.

All these things match what I see,or what I think I see.I just don’t think these guys respond to Bobby the way they used to.I’m sure he’s still very respected and even loved by most everybody associated with the game.That doesn’t mean he’s the manager he was.I don’t believe he is.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Run Heap Run: Huddy said in text to me, “Gonna see how it feels this week and make a decision.”

I updated my story while ago. Doesn’t change anything, really. I mean, I was told by a person who knows that the MRI shows a torn ligament. It’s not going to heal on its own. And how much could possibly change in one week?

That might be a case of, need to wait a week anyway to get some inflammation and that dye (from the MRI) out of there before the surgery.

By jed

July 30, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

what’s this the braves announcers are talking about? they just said mark bowman got a text from hudson saying he’s going to “tough it out this year”?

how stupid and counter-productive would that be? why wouldnt he have the surgery so we’d at least get him back for some of 2009? and what good does it do us to have him for the remaining months of this abysmal season?

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew, ernestoany news on your friend SNIPPER, has he been kidnapped or something?

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

NCbraves fan and Jeb

I said Hermida and a top pitching prospect to the Braves. I’ve said all along and still believe the Sox would have overpaid for Tex. Who needs him more? The Sox or Angels? Come on, that’s a slam dunk. Who’s gonna protect Papi if Manny’s gone? Jason Bay? Please.

Look at it this way. If you still had Tex tonight you’d be channeling through the Red Sox and Angels farm systems to see how much you could command for Tex.

BTW- Don’t count the Phils out of this thing yet either.

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Man if I were Pujols I would be P!ssed that Kennedy stole second.

By Robert S

July 30, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Just as I post the rumored blockbuster, Peter Gammons comes along and puts the kibosh on it, saying talks will continue through tomorrow on the potential Manny-to-Florida, Bay-and Grabow-to-Boston, and Hermida and prospects to Pittsburgh. Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus was the initial source of the rumored deal.

Anyway, talking trades seems more fun than following the game right now!!

By Robert

July 30, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

I have heard the criticsm before that I dont offer a SPECIFIC alternative to Cox

Well try this - Supoooose that your car breaks down. You take it to mechanic Joe, and as you walk in you see Joe lighting a match to see how much gas is left in some other car’s tank

Now, do you have to have a specific alternative to Joe at hand to know that you aint lettin Joe work on your car?

Meanwhile, Casey Kotchman is gonna cry himself to sleep in his hitel room tonight

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

It’s time to end the Freddy Krueger nightmare. There is no reason at this point for a washed up has been but never quite was like Tavarez to waste a roster spot that could be used by some minor leaguer that would like to thrown an inning in the majors at some point in his career.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Hey hey hey! Sammons is wearing McCann’s gear!

By kris

July 30, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

This Braves bullpen ar elying down like a bunch of dawgs! pathetic

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Shamus Thacker

SNOOPY69 has been found………..he was in a drugstore in his neighborhood…….Found some prozac in his back pocket. Poor guy…………he might end up a junkie.

By Iron Labrum

July 30, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

DOB…how about no matter what happens…tomorrow, could we have a less depressing blog title? Let’s glass half full it for a day or so. We deserve it, huh?

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Send freeking Tavaras packing he totally Sucks!!!

By brian

July 30, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

unless the Marlins are getting significant cash as well from Boston to cover this year and at least one option year, they are insane to make that trade

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox Bashers,

There is not one single manager in the major leagues that could have helped the Braves this year.

Not one. Not Torre, La Russa. NOBODY.

Get off his back. I’d take him and his win/loss record (even in the postseason) over 98% of the other managers period.

By StingerSplash

July 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Where the hell is ref to stop this thing? The Braves can’t even take a standing 8-count anymore. This is painful to watch, painful to listen to, painful to follow. Ain’t turning away, though.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Anders, what makes you think the Red Sox would have been prepared to trade Youk along with Manny and replace him with a guy with two months on his contract who is going to command a huge deal?

I never said anything about the Sox trading Youk. I said they could move him to left. His the ultimate team guy who would probably be the happiest if Manny was dealt. Plus I’m sure he can play left as well as Manny does - not saying much there.

Basically they slot Tex into Manny’s batting spot and have Youk in left which is an upgrade. Versus Jason Bay and Youk - no contest.

By LT-AA Blogger

July 30, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

If the Sox trade Manny, would that make them interested in Kotsay?

By jtb

July 30, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Anders

That was certainly not my favorite World Series, but as I do recall the Mets lost that World Series to the other NY team. All I was trying to say there is that the Mets have to overspend on a pitcher with his best years behind him in order to get any attention is because they don’t seem to win nearly as much as the Yankees, especially in the post season.

By Robert S

July 30, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, gotta agree with you there. This team has looked listless most of the year, and I think a very telling statement about the state of things was made last week by none other than Bobby Cox himself, after he was asked if he’s held meetings to motivate his players:

“I’ve already talked to them in Florida [last week]. What’s there left to say? Who are you gonna yell at?”

When it reaches that point, and the same things happen over and over again (like tonight and last night and the night before, and so on), there has to be a point where someone in this organization says, “Bobby, you’ve had a great run, but it’s time to move on.”

The sad thing is, it probably won’t happen until Bobby decides to do so himself.

It’s gonna be mighty ugly the rest of the way, folks. One can only hope the Braves can make it to 70 wins, at the rate they’re going……..

By Robert

July 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

I have an idea to propose to Frank Wren

Let Cox catch and let Corky manage

By The Scatman

July 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Get off his back. I’d take him and his win/loss record (even in the postseason) over 98% of the other managers period.

98% huh? Can you please share your algorithm? We want to check your calculation.

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Can you really expect to compete when you field a lineup that has a collective 30 hrs vs. a lineup that has 77?

Our cleanup hitter is hitting .220 with 3 dingers. Their’s has 20 plus dingers.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

The Fish can’t possibly get Manny. His car probably cost more than their entire payroll.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Hey I have the answer!

How about Manny for Favre and we can all get on with our lives?

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Why has Ankiel been sitting?

Lew Appreciate you cutting me a little slack. :-)

By Jerald Holcombe

July 30, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Not trying to be an a*, or anything of the sort, but has Pendleton helped anyone out of a slump since he’s been here? I know that Chipper gets help from his dad, and Francouer had to be demoted. Andruw was like a deaf/mute in regards to TP. Seriously, I’ve seen good players come here and leave after they forgot how to hit. Didn’t that happen to Marcus Giles. Isn’t that maybe happening to Kelly Johnson, who was supposed to be an up-and-coming hitting star. When Andruw got here, this kid was supposed to be someone who could not miss getting into the HOF, but look how far he has fallen. While Andruw was here, I’ve never seen a hitting coach get as much ait time as Pendleton got. Every time Andruw came to bat, there was TP.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

gotigers72—

It was Eric Bynes that ran into McCann on May 20, 2006. Actually, the ankle didn’t cause him to hurt the team too bad—as a matter of fact, he was the biggest offensive threat on the team that year (well, maybe no the biggest). Just look at his second half stats for ‘06

If teams continue to run him over, I’m sure they’ll fight back. But I don’t think we have too much to worry about…well, I hope…

This is getting sad…Night, all!

By NCBravesFan

July 30, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Anders Another aspect to this is - why would Manny agree to be traded to the Marlins in the first place? If the guy stays on the Sox, he has a much better chance of playing in the WS than with the Marlins.

And the net effect is the same - he leaves either Boston or Miami after this year.

Manny is an airhead, but he’ll show sheer stupidity if he accepts a trade there.

By Robert S

July 30, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

“If the Sox trade Manny, would that make them interested in Kotsay.”

LT-AA Blogger, not if the three way deal between Boston, Pittsburgh, and Florida goes down and Boston gets Jason Bay. If that happens, that would be something!

I’m not sure who could use Kotsay. Maybe a team looking for a bat off the bench?

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

48 runs allowed in the last 5 games.

Sad, grim, and pathetic.

By JEB

July 30, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

The Braves bullpen has gone from 2nd in the league in ERA to 6th (after tonight it may be 7th) in ONE WEEKS TIME!! WOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

I said Hermida and a top pitching prospect to the Braves. I’ve said all along and still believe the Sox would have overpaid for Tex. Who needs him more? The Sox or Angels? Come on, that’s a slam dunk. Who’s gonna protect Papi if Manny’s gone? Jason Bay? Please.

Are you serious? The Sox have one of the top three offenses in the AL by any measure. The Angels are a below average offense. Who needs him more?

The idea of the necessity of lineup protection is overstated. The Sox offense is still going to be great even if they replace Ramirez with Willingham or Bay. They have six very good to great hitters in their lineup. Plus Willingham or Bay is not as big as a drop of as a lot of people seem to think.

By Random by UBIK©

July 30, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

PS: Savannah Guy: “You might try insulting someone else who is more your speed.”

I really fail to see what was so insulting in either my first comment directed to you, or my second. No insult was intended (aside from the rather mild, throw-away “bozo” appellation).

What’s up with you these days anyway — do you have out of town guests? Are your womenses visiting this week? Have your hormones been raging?

PPS: SG: “I seem to remember you being a pretty funny guy at one time on this blog.”

Thanks.

By Jerry

July 30, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

After the trade on yesterday, I was still thinking that the Braves could make the rest of the season fun, and put a little pressure on the teams ahead of them…but now, I’m wondering if they’ll win another game this season.

They have to make good on the starts where they get good pitching. THey continue to get runners on base, but just can’t push them across the plate.

Up next will be the three unknowns, JoJo, James, Morton.

Chances are they’ll score a lot of runs, but the pitching will give up a “real” lot of runs.

By A-ville Ranger

July 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

A team that can’t bunt,throw,doesn’t back up plays,can’t get key hits,etc,etc,etc.

Yes this is a horrible year with injuries but that doesn’t explain everything.

As I type Jordan said”their heads just don’t seem to be in it from day to day like they should be”…..exactly.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

I agree about Huddy, DOB I don’t see a week making a difference either, mostly I was just letting you know that Joe and Boog mentioned you on the broadcast first then came back later and mentioned Bowman’s article saying he would like to test it for a week. Sounds like poor Huddy is still in disbelief that it’s that bad.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

jtb

All I was trying to say there is that the Mets have to overspend on a pitcher with his best years behind him

Santana is 29 and made $16 mil. Smoltz is 41 and makes $14 mil. Hudson is 33 and makes $15 mil.

I’m thinking we’re done here - right?

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

The Scatman,

Last time someone checked my algorithm I was sore for a week!

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

The Sox would pay a significant portion of Manny’s contract, to all those who are bringing that up.

NCBravesFan, you bring up another thing that complicates the deal: Manny can veto a trade. Who knows what goes on in his head? It’s quite possible Manny desperately wants out. But he could change his mind and talk about how much he loves playing for the Red Sox by the time we all wake up tomorrow. Who knows?

Seems like a lot of things have to line up for this trade to happen. Wouldn’t surprise me either way. I think the Sox realize there wouldn’t be much of a drop-off and they wouldn’t mind trading an aging Manny for at least two quality players. Their front office is smart and Epstein isn’t afraid to make bold moves in the midst of a playoff race.

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Manny is exactly right though. The Red Sox always trash their players on the way out the door. They did it with Damon, Pedro, Nomar, Mo Vaughn, Clemens, Boggs. Every departure there is ugly. No one gets to leave with dignity.

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

There are plenty of managers that could do a better job than Cox is doing right now. Look across the field. The Cardinals are very similar - one superstar player - Pujols - a bunch of young guys you never heard of and Troy Glaus. But their manager (I hate him, by the way) plays to win. He knows the Braves are down, but he has managed every game this series like it was the playoffs and put the foot on the jugular. I know the Braves are riddled with injuries but Cox doesn’t have to run the lineup out there like he did tonight without using the best players available and he doesn’t have to trot Boyer and Ring out there night after night. Those things are solely his decisions and costs us game after game. I know we’ve been all over Frenchy, but wouldn’t you rather see him in the cleanup spot for a couple of games over Norton? Norton is supposed to be a pinch hitter, not your cleanup hitter. Hey Braves management, wake up and call some guys up - put Mac on the DL if he can’t play, to get somebody other than Corky in the game.

By rupert

July 30, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

i think the team will take a deap breath after tom. when they know who is here, who’s coming, who’s going etc, this team doesn’t handle stressful situations well, hell they slumped at the deadline last year before they got tex with all the positive rumors, would love to hear an update on what the braves are talking about now for ohman, kotsay, adding a bat that wren mentioned, but seems like the manny to the marlins is all anyone wants to talk about on tv and the web, can’t blame them though, be a hell of a deal for the fish

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan

While I don’t think the marlins can afford manny I can definitely see why its appealing to him. He already has the rings, his off season home is in south florida, and then there’s that whole no income tax thing.

Teix went 0-fer tonight with 2 strikeouts tonight.

By tyyosh

July 30, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Yeah Anders, I admit, I really wish Wren would have waited. Were the Angels going to walk from that deal? Man, it would be a lot more fun right now waiting until tomorrow afternoon all the while hearing rumors flying everywhere about teams freaking out trying to get Tex…

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

NCBraves fan

If the guy stays on the Sox, he has a much better chance of playing in the WS than with the Marlins.

Have you watched Manny the last two weeks? He’s PO’d at the Sox because he wants more money period. I was up in Boston last weekend at the Yanks/Sox series. Even the most ardent fans are at peace that the time has come. “Manny being Manny” isn’t fun anymore for anyone.

He caused this - not the Sox so it’s not like they have to ask him if he wants to leave.

By THIS JUST IN

July 30, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Also Mike Stanton is probably not a Jason Heyward. Stanton was not as highly regarded and so far in their very young pro careers, Heyward looks better.

SHAUN

You still didn’t comment on what I said earlier. Why would you think Stanton isn’t a Jason Heyward? He doesn’t make a ton of outs. He has a higher OPS. He is the same age as Heyward. Again, for someone who values stats, what would lead you to believe Stanton isn’t Jason Heyward? The prospect lists? There are a ton of prospect lists. Boston, again shows why they are smart. While the Braves show why they are not.

By champ

July 30, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

How is Cox responsible for the players of this team? He is not the GM! Is it because he has to use Blaine Boyer out of the bullpen? His other options this year… Ring, Taverez, Resop, Acosta. His LF Norton was basicly released by the LAST PLACE Mariners. His main pinch hitter Gotay was released by the Mets. He has a backup catcher who hasn’t gotten two hits in a game since 2003 Maybe it’s his fault that his RF is (2 for 22?) with the bases loaded, or that his best player can’t go more then two weeks without some sort of nagging injury. Bobby Cox is not perfect, but please don’t blame him for the way this season has gone.

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

Dave Do you suspect we will hear anything on Ohman or Kotsay tonight?

If we are going to lose so badly, why not do it with some youth in there? Let’s jettison Norton, Gotay, Miller, Tavarez, and Ring. How about a mini-youth movement for August and September!

By Robert S

July 30, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, Ankiel has a bad ankle. He has pinch hit in the series, though.

I’m surprised someone like ESPN’s Chris Berman hasn’t given poor Rick one of his silly nicknames, like Rick “Sprained” Ankiel.

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Kentavo,

I agree that I question some of Bobby’s calls at times.

However, where would the cardinals be right now, missing 4/5ths of the projected starting rotation plus 3-4 starting position players?

If the Braves started the year out with La Russa, just how many games would his “super manager ability” gain him over Bobby? 2? 3? We are 9 back.

Geez. Get off his back.

By kris

July 30, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

How ironic is it Mike Hampton is healthy now and everybody else is hurt?

By Russ Nixon

July 30, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Starting with the 5th inning meltdown on Saturday has there been a worse 5 days in Braves baseball ever???

By Noobie

July 30, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Champ,

Couldn’t agree more.

By Anders Mom

July 30, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

How about Manny for Favre and we can all get on with our lives?

Son, by life do you mean spending all day on the internet switching between porn and baseball?

And get me more cigarettes!

By Anders

July 30, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun

The idea of the necessity of lineup protection is overstated

What? that’s an asinine statement. Tell that to Chipper when he’s getting walked twice a night in about a month.

As for Boston having a great offense. Yes with Manny in the middle of it - That’s my point. You take him out and it’s a whole different lineup. You plug in Bay, so-so. You plug in Tex and it’s not much of a drop off. The Angels are 12 up without Tex.Is he an upgrade - of course. Would they overpay for him? Apparently not.

Is this really that hard to comprehend? Simple equation would the Sox rather have Bay or Tex?

By rainman

July 30, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

2009 lineup furcal ss escobar 2b jones 3b dunn lf mccann c francor rf kotchman 1b schefer cf with this lineup who cares who pitchs and we could afford this. 16 mill to dunn and 12 to furcal. jj, campy, jo jo, morton, james, redman aa pitcher, hanson, medlin, weve got a ton of arms to try out plus maybe hampton at a discount and a paul byrd type guy to eat up innings.

By Chuck Tanner

July 30, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Take that freaking Cow down now!!!!!

By THIS JUST IN

July 30, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

The Braves are on pace to pick 7th in the draft.

7th….

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

DOB,

How much did Paul Byrd take to get back from TJ. I think it was like 6 month’s wasn’t it? Hudson should take the surgery, I mean the torn ligament won’t magically recover. He should take it now to at least have a chance to get back next year. And if he does how much will the braves need to pay him? Will insurance pay something. Do players have Aflac?

If Tim Hudson’s ligament doesn’t magically recover, they will need to sign at least two pitchers, and it would be a good idea to add an extra one to the mix after we’ve seen all the injuries this year. CC, and Ben Sheets I think they would be definitely out of the mix(mainly because they now need to sign two quality pitchers instead of one.)

The top choices would be:

• Paul Byrd (1 yr 7.5 million)guess
• Oliver Perez (4 yrs 48 million)guess(Boras)
• AJ Burnett (5 yrs 60 million)guess
• Jon Garland (5 yrs 52 million)guess
• John Lackey (6 yrs 96 million)guess
• Derek Lowe (3 yrs 25 million)guess(Boras)
• Brad Penny (4 yrs 40 million)guess
• Ryan Dempster(4 yrs 48 million)guess
• Andy Pettitte ( 1yr 16 million)guess

2 or three SP’s from that group. Right now the only two starting pitchers set for next year are Jair, and Campillo, beacuse I hope the braves wont do a mistake by counting on mike Hampton, Tom Glavine, and John Smoltz. I hope the braves sign them for minimun wage and any type of playing time those pitcher give you will be a bonus

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or does it seem that Boyer has spent some time at the Dan Kolb & Chris Reitsma School of Relieving?

By jtb

July 30, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Anders

Not quite. First of all, both Hudson and Smoltz beat Santana in head to head battles. Not really that big of a deal now, but it does feel nice knowing that when healthy, the Braves aces are better than the Mets. Secondly, Santana’s salary will only increase as he gets older. When he’s 35 the Mets will be paying him about 23 million. Have fun with that.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Sounds like Ohman might be getting traded to St. Louis, which would explain why he pitched in tonight’s game with Braves down 5-2 the night before the trade deadline.

By Jerry

July 30, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves planning to give partial ticket refunds? This is not worth paying to see.

By SR

July 30, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

I’m not a Cox basher but clearly he is subject to criticism for his continued use of Boyer when this guy belongs in the minors. I mean come on, when pitchers just aren’t getting it done and they still have options left (which I assume he does) they get sent down. Hell, the Snakes just sent Micah Owings down, happens all the time.

Not only that but Kentavo makes a great point which is, the Cardinals have suffered injuries this season, maybe not as many and/or as significant as the Braves but more than most teams and compare and contrast them to the Braves. Moreover, the Braves had one of their better (only) pitchers throwing tonight and still were barely competitive.

Face it, this team has been on a downward spiral for the past three seasons and no one seems capable of pulling this thing out of its dive.

By DP

July 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

What would Corky Miller need to do for the Braves to waive him? I’d think hitting under .100 for the season and providing a steady dose of throwing errors and passed balls in crucial situations would do the trick, but apparently not.

Corky is like George Costanza in the Seinfeld episode when he was trying to get the Yankees to fire him, wiping his greasy fingers on a Babe Ruth jersey and dragging a World Series trophy around the parking lot behind a car. I think if Corky showed up drunk tomorrow night, puked on home plate and passed out they still wouldn’t waive him.

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

We got lucky in the first half with rookie pitching and good bullpen work. Now rookies are pitching like rookies and the pen is worn out. Don’t think so? The numbers don’t lie. Of course Bobby will tell you it’s just bad luck.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

The Marlins may figure they can afford Manny for two months, and they have a lot of confidence that they can draft well to either develop players internally or trade their draftees to fill needs on the roster.

The idea of getting Manny isn’t at all crazy, esp. since he’s p.o.’ed at the Sox. Hey, the circus that comes to town along with Manny might be a distraction that helps a young club. While the media focus on Manny, the rest of the team can relax and play ball.

By Jerry

July 30, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

If the Braves don’t make some good moves during the off season, my tickets for next year will be to see the Gwinett Braves.

By monty

July 30, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Gary:

Boyer does need to work on another pitch but he already throws a big breaking slow curve, though not usually for a strike.

What he needs is a hard slider like Smoltz throws. Something with a late break to it. As of right now hitters have time to adjust to his 70 mph curve and he needs to throw a 2 seam fastball along with his usual 4 seam for more movement.

By BigPapa

July 30, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

I know it’s been asked before, but why are Miller, Boyer and Ring on this team? Most pitchers hit better than Corky. Why does Cox continue to run Boyer and Ring out to the mound. FRUSTRATING!!!!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

OK, DOB, we know who the BoSox were discussing in an Ohman trade. Who might the Cards offer?

Colby Rasmus? (In our dreams.)

Any ideas?

By Anders

July 30, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

jtb

You do realize the Braves “Aces” you speak of are either retiring or headed for major surgery? So I hope that warm fuzzy feeling you got during the head to head games this year last you a lifetime.

By Efrim

July 30, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

I’m hoping it’s Tyler Herron from the Cards.

Projectable righty. Not as good as Hanson, but a solid pitching prospect.

By Savannah Guy's Mom

July 30, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Please excuse my son for being so pompous.

He suffers from blogorrhea.

By Anders

July 30, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Bravesfaninrockies

You make a good point about Manny’s circus being a distraction for the young club. A definite risk. Plus ou have to worry about him being a bad influence on Henley Ramirez who they seem to finally have on a more mature path.

By BigPapa

July 30, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t Corky the name of the retarded kid on “Life Goes On?”

I’m just sayin…

By Anders Mom

July 30, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Son, did you know that the mailman gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

He may be your Dad. I’m not sure.

By Kentavo

July 30, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Noobie, I don’t think LaRussa is that great, but he’s better than Cox.

I manage people too in my profession, and I know what people are good at and what they suck at and don’t put them in positions that will get egg on my face.

Cox does have a say so in personnel matters and he chose Corky Miller, for example, coming out of spring training.

Okay, fine, use the career sub .200 hitter as a defensive replacement not a starter and pinch hitter. Give the playing time right now to Sammons.

The Braves have better internal options than what Cox is utilizing and what Cox/Wren are calling upon from the minors.

Bullpen sux right now becasue Cox wore ‘em out in the first half.

I’m not saying the injuries for Braves have been horrific, but if Cox were really an adept manager, he wouldn’t have p##ssed away as many games as he has with in-game boneheaded moves and personnel decsions.

Like last night: why was Gonzo in? A closer who can’t go back to back nights is used in a game where we’re behind. So, Gonzo couldn’t be used tonight if we had gotten to the 9th with a lead.

I could go on, but you’re obviously a Cox apologist.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

SR,

I don’t think Boyer belongs in the minors. I think Bobby wore him out. The season is 2/3 over, and look at the pitching lines:

Boyer, 57 appearances (overworked, ineffective) Ohman, 55 (trade him quick, injury waiting to happen) Bennett, 42 (hurt) Acosta, 41 (hurt) Ring, 40 (inefffective)

If Boyer’s arm doesn’t fall off, he’s on tap for 86 appearances; Ohman 83.

If there’s one gripe I have with Cox this year (OK, 2; hitting Francouer so high in the order) it’s with the abuse of the bullpen.

The season lasts about 26 weeks. If you can save one appearance every two weeks from your key relievers, they’ll be fresher and probably have longer careers.

I’ve heard Wren suggest that it doesn’t matter how often you run somebody out there as long as he doesn’t go more than one inning.That’s garbage, and IMO the injury to Moylan and the ineffectiveness of a number of Braves relievers late in recent seasons is the evidence. More like it a pitcher can throw so many times during the course of a season and once you’ve exhausted that number of outings he’s done.

By Savannah Guy's Mom

July 30, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I forget to mention that the swamp gas and the toxic fumes from the paper mills here in Savannah sometimes do peculiar things to his brain.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

I’m hearing “low level prospect” is what they’d get from Cardinals, though don’t know who it is, at least not yet.

By jtb

July 30, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Anders

Oh really? That’s news to me! And while that warm and fuzzy feeling probably won’t last me a lifetime, they will be two of my better memories of what has been a brutal season. Hopefully Santana and Jurrjens will match up later on this season so the Braves aces can be 3 for 3 against your “ace”.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Good point about Hanley.

I was at the 18-17 Fish/Rockies game July 4; got there early for BP. Hanley was hitting bombs. He hit the ball farther more regularly than anyone on either club including Holliday. (Uggla was hurt so he didn’t hit or play.)

Dude is a monster.

By Berryhill

July 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Angels’ fan in so cal here. After the trade last night, I found this blog hunting some local Atl. opinions on Tex. Just back here tonight reading after the game. I’ll have to admit that, even though Teixeira didn’t do much tonight, his mere presence in the order with Vlad, Garrett, etc. makes the lineup look so much more impressive. I said this last night, but give Casey a chance. He’s a hard worker, a great defender, and his best offensive years are ahead of him. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s an allstar in ‘10 or ‘11.

By the way, how do you guys tolerate this Anders character? I thought this was a Braves blog. I’ve almost never seen any other teams’ fans blog on the Angels’ sites I go to, not even Dodger fans. I gather he’s a Mets fan but he blogs here? What is he so proud of anyway? The Mets are the third best team in their own division. They have 1.5 decent starting pitchers w/Maine hurt. The back end of their bullpen is marginal at best. It’s almost August and they’re what, 7 or 8 over .500? There’s nothing wrong with rooting for whichever team you want…..but to make obnoxious logicless posts on other team’s blogs? Kind of sad.

Oh well, enjoyed your banter here the last couple of nights. Good luck Braves followers. Angels in ‘08!

By Anders

July 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Just saw the highlights from the Red Sox 9-2 loss. That looks like a desperate team right now. The Yanks are coming, the Rays won’t go away and the Sox are reeling.

Instead of tonight being Christmas Eve for Braves nation is just another night.

Oh well.

Good night to all and to all a good night.

By Greg O.

July 30, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Anders, in your 10:36 post, did you really try to compare Johan Santana’s 7 year/$150 million contract to the contracts that Tim Hudson (4 years/$48 million, including $1 million buyout after next season) and John Smoltz (1 year/$14 million)? You’re skewing the numbers a bit. Maybe Santana makes $16 million this year because more money is back-loaded onto the contract (which averages over $21 million). And maybe if you combine Hudson’s base pay for this year with some signing bonus money he’s already got in the bank, your figures work. But do the simple math - $21.43 million/year (Johan) is far more than the $12 million that Hudson averages. And seven years or not, you just can’t compare $150 million (Johan) to $14 million (Smoltz).

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves planning to give partial ticket refunds? This is not worth paying to see.Jerry

Remember when some wanted to strip the team and call up the kids a month ago? Can you imagine how many season-ticket holders, or just folks who bought advance tix for a few games, would have similar feelings to what you just expressed watching a minor league team play at major league prices — for more than half the season?

Only two months left now. And it will (should?) get better when Mac gets back and Chipper returns, etc.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

One of the two posts at 10:58 p.m. just made me laugh my a$# off.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the news about Ohman, DOB, though that’s not very encouraging (unless the prospect turns out to be a stud).

By SR

July 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Rockies Dude

I agree with you and actually said as much earlier in the season. In fact, I wondered what the over/under was on him being the next addition to the DL. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if that doesn’t happen soon or if sometime in the next 2 months or after the season is over, we learn that he has been suffering from some sort of malady.

Having said that however, he just ain’t getting it done right now and in fact, has not for much of the season. Whatever the reason, whether the minors or the DL, they need to be able to have another option to go to.

From what part of the Rockies are you? I have skied a lot of those hills.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

“What would Corky Miller need to do for the Braves to waive him?”

Wear sunglasses on his ballcap during batting practice

Play music in the clubhouse

Exchange Christmas cards with Bob Wickman

Forget to give Donk a sugar cube between innings

Claim that the playoffs arent a crapshoot

Not let Donk win at checkers

Oh - you mean like something related to winning or losing games? Not while Donk is in charge

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

RE: Hudson —

So what’s the big deal if he rests two weeks and tries to pitch? Maybe he can put together a few starts and the Braves go on a hot streak and get back in the race. Hey, a boy can dream.

If he can somehow finish the year (highly doubtful) and has TJ in October, he has 16 months to rehab before ST 2010.

If not, he has TJ in August and has 18 months to rehab.

Either way he’s back to open the 2010 season or very early in it. I don’t see the downside. I don’t think he can do any damage to the elbow that wouldn’t be fixed by the surgery.

By vic

July 30, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris or Jeff?

jeff=396ab 46run hit92 2b 22 3b 2 hr 9 rbi 46 bb 25 so 74 obp 289 slg 366 avg 232 sb 0

willie= 185ab 32run hits 45 2b5 3b 3 hr 8 rbi 23 bb 28 so 35 obp 347 slg 416 avg 243 sb 7

Jeff has 211 more at bats but only 14 more runs, 47 more hits, 17 more 2b, 1 more 3b, 1 more hr,23 more rbi, 3 less bb,46 more so, 58 less obp, 50 less slg,11 points lower ba, 7 less sb.

How great is Frenchy, give Willie 200 more ab and he would make jeff look sick? What does this prove? probably nothing but Braves need to unload JF. As for me I’d rather have willie. Now rip me up.

By Couch Tater

July 30, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

This week has been a bowl full of sad.

By Random by UBIK©

July 30, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Anders — Lot of good stuff from you tonight. Thanks.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Cox on the bullpen debacles of late: “Four out of the last five games, we could have won. We find a way to not hold the opponent. It’s crazy. Our bullpen was so good earlier. We’re not holding anybody now.”

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

What many seem to forget is a point that Dave and others have made. McCann and Chipper are out. Diaz has been out forever. When you add this to the time missed by other key members earlier in the year, and Frenchy’s struggles, I personally think the team has done well for the hand they have been dealt.

The bullpen is obviously suffering now, maybe from overuse??? The entire staff is generally a very young and inexperienced staff. And now Huddy’s fate.

At midnight tonight, (5 minutes from when this posts), let’s all go find some wood, and knock on it. I don’t think we could handle any more bad luck this year.

Good night my friends. Tomorrow is another day!

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Jurrjens on the latest Hudson news: “It sucks, man. It’s like I lost my mentor. I hope he’ll still be around. I hope he recovers quick. I need a mentor next to me.”

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

SR,

Not from the Rockies. Here (Denver area) because work brought me tho I love it. Most of the year. You have to be careful in April and October, cuz that’s when we can have our biggest snowstorms.

We’ve had our 18th straight day of 90+ degrees with no end in sight. Remember, however, it’s a dry heat.

By SR

July 31, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Rockies

Got it man, live in the Bay Area myself. Spent mucho time in Denver over the years as well as all the Colorado resorts, from Telluride to Steamboat.

Love that dry heat line. Always kid one of my old employees who moved to Phoenix by using that very line! Take care.

By john

July 31, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

DOB Keith Law has just posted on espn.com that Eight teams looking for a lefty-killer for their bullpen are in on Will Ohman,If this is the case then why are the Braves not talking to all of this team and see if they can get something better then a low level” prospect

By BravesFanInRockies

July 31, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Hey Wayne,

Just knocked on some wood.

There’s no mystery why the offense has struggled against the Cards. The bench is the best it’s been in awhile (no Woodward or Orr) but it’s still pretty anemic on the power front. Wouldn’t you say KJ and Kotchman are the best HR threats who played tonight? Yikes

It’ll be interesting to see how much life they have in them when Heap and Chipper are back.

‘Nite all.

By Kentavo

July 31, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

I promise you I’ve put thought into the following post and know the realities and constraints of Braves’ payroll.

To field a playoff caliber team for ‘09, the Braves need to take a different tack in constructing the roster (obviously, right?)

It is obvious that starting pitching will have to be an offseason priority with Huddy going down. I expect that to be addressed via trade (somehow?) as beyond the Brewers’ two studs, nobody’s really an impact type guy. Perhaps Dembster with the season he’s having.

Other than that, here’s a couple of things, in my opinion that need to be done:

Why do we have a roster with extra light hitting middle infielders? Do we really need Gotay and Prado?

1. Keep Infante who is super utility and if is everybody is healthy, can split time with KJ at 2nd to get a L/R platoon going
2. Get a legit backup for Chipper - a real 3rd sacker, not a utility guy.
3. Get a legit 1B backup for Kotchman. Tony Clark would be ideal.

Bmac, Frenchy (yes, bat him down in the order and he’s adequate), Chip, Kotchman, Yunel and K.J. is pretty good nucleus. Add a LF with pop and work in some speedy guys, Blanco/Anderson/Gorkys/Shafer in CF.

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Roo Roo balls. It was the damn roo roo balls.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

By the way, how do you guys tolerate this Anders character?Berryhill

Because we’re a tolerant, amiable group that doesn’t like confrontation (he says, unable to keep from laughing).

By bruce

July 31, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

ok so I looked up the Five Stages of Grief to see where I might be now that it seems like denial is no longer descriptive for me… not sure how long I’ll spend in each stage, we’ll see…will probably be a pretty good ride denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance .

..so where might you be today?

maybe the good news about glavine took some of the shine off and I’ll be back…. thanks, Bruce

By Random by Cogswell Cogs©

July 31, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: “I’ve heard Wren suggest that it doesn’t matter how often you run somebody out there as long as he doesn’t go more than one inning. That’s garbage, and IMO the injury to Moylan and the ineffectiveness of a number of Braves relievers late in recent seasons is the evidence.”

Agree completely — it’s not the number of innings that matter, it’s the number of pitches (including warming up, whether they get into the game or not), and the amount of rest in between.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

This week has been a bowl full of sad.Couch Tater

Don’t forget the failure meal in that bowl of sad.

By brent a.

July 31, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

I can remember knocking on wood repeatedly during Game 7 of the ‘91 series.

Ended my wood knocking days forever.

By Wayne in Utah

July 31, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Rockies

As much as I love to see my team win, I would rather we see what some of the kids can do from here on out. Not interested in watching Corky Miller, Norton, Gotay, Tavares, etc.

As much as I would hate to see him go, I think we need to get the best possible player for Ohman. (then sign him in the fall!) Probably not going to happen … the signing part…

Take care.

By justafan

July 31, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Noobie-You said u would take cox 98% of time, Please take him and get the he11 out of town.

By Why's Everyone Shocked About the Bullpen?

July 31, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

**Every single year, Donk overuses the pen through mismanagement in blowout games, having guys warm up multiple times to pitch to one batter the protect the legacy of “the book”, and just a general disregard for the long term health of the arms of those involved. The bullpen management has been a joke since Mazzone left, and Roger don’t have the onions to call the old b******* out on it. Don’t get me started on Corky

and DOB, Fans are paying now to watch a predominately minor league teams, they are just paying major league prices**

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Had to be the ‘roo nads, Braveheart. I agree. No other explanation for this spate of misfortune. Good intentions by Mr. Stockman, gone horribly awry.

By Robert S

July 31, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

“Our bullpen was so good earlier. We’re not holding anybody now.”

That’s what happens in the new world of pitch counts and general overuse. Boyer admitted he’s never pitched as much as this year. Starters aren’t going deep often, and Bobby Cox has gone to the well one too many times with the guys he has. It’s a catch-22.

I’ll once again rehash the good old days when 250-275 innings a year were expected from top of the line starters. When pitchers finished what they started, some throwing as many as 20 complete games a year. When relievers threw over 100 innings a year (Goose Gossage, anyone?)

Major league pitchers today are babied too much. They’re put on these stupid pitch counts as they’re developing in the minors, and suddenly they’re thrust into the bigs never having thrown more than 150 innings a year, yet they’re expected to suddenly go 200. Relievers are similarly abused when these newcomers keep getting pulled after four innings. It’s a vicious cycle.

I wish that baseball would rid itself of all this “specialization” and lefty-righty garbage and just groom guys to finish what they started, and develop without all these silly pitch counts - and there seems to be far more injuries in this “pitch count era” than there were before Whitey Herzog came along and began all this nonsense, with Tony LaRussa taking it a step further.

I sound like an old fogey, but I long for the days when the game was played right…………..

By skip

July 31, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

DOB-Since this board seems pretty obsessed with Manny, why don’t you ask Julian Tavarez what the heck is going on with him? Julian and Manny were best friends, and actually the annual Manny-drama didn’t happen the couple of years that Julian was with the Sox (I knew the Sox were making a mistake letting Jools go!) I’m just really curious what his take on the situation is. Thanks!

By bruce

July 31, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

David: does the failure meal with the bowl of sad still come with fries and a drink? I think it did at Bull’s in Philly on Sunday. We got both fried and drenched on Sunday. Thanks, Bruce

By Chop Chop

July 31, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

When Kerry Wood knocks on wood, does he end up on the DL?

By Couch Tater

July 31, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

DOB

Did you get the feeling from the clubhouse that the Hudson injury was more of a blow to morale than the Tex trade?

By Interested Observer

July 31, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

I hope we don’t see an Ohman trade until after 3 pm tomorrow. With Fuentes probably off the market, Ohman is the best lefty reliever available, something pretty much every contender is looking for. Wren should take this down to the wire and milk as much out of it as possible.

By Tomas

July 31, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves need to change their Head Team Physician, Terry Pendelton and Bobby Cox. I think Bobby is a hall of fame manager I just think he is very old fashioned, and he is an american league type manager. He makes a lot of questionable decisions making roster moves, and he makes bad decisions substituting his pitchers. Also the braves almost never steal bases, and hit and run, and that why their ninth in the league in scoring runs. Bobby will not ever try to steal third base. But players have a repect for him, and he always defends his players, thats why he’s been ejected so much. Terry Pendelton hasn’t had much succes with this braves hitters, I mean Frenchy had to go back to AA to find a hiting coach that could help him.

Look at Tony Larrusa’s cardinals. He steals bases, Pujols and Izturis have already stolen third base. He always seems to make the right move when going to the bulpen. For me he is the best manager in the game. He also has a great coaching staff. Duncan it’s absolutely great, he made Carpinter a Cy young, has handled this staff in a great way, without Carpenter, Mulder, and Wainwright for most of the season. Look at Looper, I thought the guy had no shot of being succesful as a starte with only two pitches a change up and a fastball, or Todd Wellemeyer, how has that guy been succesful. Duncan is the greatest pitching coach in the game. Also Hal McRae their hitting coach has everybody in the lineup hitting. Ludwick came out of nowhere, Molina is hitting 300 and is the toughest guy to stike out in the NL every 16.3 at bats. I think coaches do make a difference, because they show players how to use their talent, and this Cardinals, are a perfect example. I thought they had no chance of being in the hunt this late in the season, but there they are, and playing good fundamental baseball.

Charlie Manuel style of play it’s great. He steals A LOT of bases, and their amount of runs per game is 5. He handles the bulpen very, very good, and mantains discipline in that club house. Also they almost don’t get caught stealing bases, their first base coach Davey Lopes is a big reason why they are so succesful in stealing bases, he reads pitchers very, very well, and helps those baserunners.

Freddy Gonzales is also a very good manager. He is also one of the best i’ve seeing using the bulpen. He steals a lot more bases than Bobby thats for sure (hanley has 25), and he has this marlins team which at the beginning of the season I thought they had no chances of winning the division. Look at their opening day starter “Mark Hendrickson”, that didn’t look too good for them.

By bruce

July 31, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

wait a moment… the five stages of grief describe well the entire Philly fan experience… denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance

and I thought there was no explaining philly fans… they just never get to acceptance… it’s a four stage cycle rather than a five stage process for them.

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

for all you BOBBY HATER’S find something else to do.

i have bit my tongue all season listening to this or that.

time to realize that we were and still would be the falcons unless he agreed to be general manager.

we would not of had smoltz, avery, klesko, blauser, stanton, mercker, justice, gant, javy, wohlers, among others who he and his front office drafted and developed.

we would of not had melvin nieves, who was the centerpiece in the crimedawg trade.

bobby put that scouting department, and minor league system together.

so JS takes over in 91 hires ed mangan to make the field look nice, finds a few cheap free agents and the run begins.

JS gets way to much credit.

from 1991 to 2000 it was our player development that kept us alive.

talent has been on the decline since 2003, the only thing that held it together was # 6.

tell me one player on this current roster that makes you run from the kitchen to watch hit.

there is zero excitement factor on this roster.

HATE TO SAY THIS BUT JS CHECKED OUT AFTER he wrote his book (which was barely readable, one good chapter the neon deion thing) and when he realized his son jonathan was never gonna be a major leaguer.

you want blame, blame JS he got lazy not BOBBY.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

It’s a fluid situation here. An official with one of the teams assures that it’s not going to happen with Cardinals. He might get traded, but not to them, he said.

Price must have gone up beyond a low/mid-level prospect. Good for Braves. At least if they trade him, they’ll get something solid, it appears.

But just maybe, they’re thinking seriously about keeping him. We’ll see in the morning or tomorrow afternoon at the latest.

By Robert S

July 31, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

For all you Manny-philes out there, this from the Palm Beach Post:

A tentative deal has been reached (still some haggling on prospects) but the three way deal with Boston, Florida, and Pittsburgh goes like this:

Marlins get: Manny Ramirez, cash, prospect from Red Sox

Red Sox get: Jason Bay, John Grabow

Pirates get: Ryan Tucker, Jeremy Hermida, one prospect from Red Sox, perhaps another prospect from Marlins

Don’t you just love the trade deadline? Christmas in July, baseball-wise…….

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

Robert S

Amen to too many “wimps” that are called pitchers.

Bob Gibson’s career totals were 482 Games Started, 255 Complete Games, and 56 Shutouts.

In 1968, he was 22-9 w/ a 1.12 ERA. Started 34 games, completed 28 and had 13 shutouts. 304 IP.

In 8 out of 19 seasons in a row, he pitched over 250 innings.

“Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn’t score any runs.” - Former Cardinal Catcher Tim McCarver

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Tony LaRussa and Dennis Eckersley ruined it for baseball. Eck was ONLY brought in when it was a technical save opportunity, and NEVER with runners on. He always came in for the 9th, and the 9th only (OK someone, go ahead and pull up the data and prove me wrong, but I am not far off.).

And that from the “smartest” manager in baseball!

By chipdip

July 31, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

BRAVES F—KING SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Chop Chop

July 31, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah,

Much like you, I watch the games at home on TV. I’m not spending hard-earned money to see the Braves play at Turner Field, so I really couldn’t care less about whether the Braves are running their best lineup out there or not. I want to see the kids. I don’t need a better lineup to make me feel like we’re “giving it our best shot.” They’re out of it, so it’s time for some open auditions.

Hell, look at the Nats, for Pete’s sake. They’ve had a AAA lineup out there all year. Is anyone going to think ill of them for not having a better lineup during a pennant race?

The Braves have all kinds of injuries, so they have an excuse for running the young players out there. If the Phillies and Mets fans (and the lone Marlin fan…you know the one…yeah, the one with the lazy eye and the bewildered look on his face) don’t like it, fine.

By Couch Tater

July 31, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

Oh, I’m glad to see Carroll did the game wrap. Might as well give her a failure meal.

By Robert S

July 31, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Interested Observer (who I first thought was Skip Caray using a nom de plume), it looks as though the Cards are front runners for Ohman (according to DOB), but I do agree with you in that I wish Frank Wren would wait a bit longer to pull the trigger on a deal so he can get maximum value. I personally think the Braves perhaps could’ve gotten more for Tex had Wren not been so hasty. We’ll never know for sure, but getting another prospect would’ve been nice.

Any bets as to whether Kotsay or Francoeur go elsewhere tomorrow? Or do the Braves try to get a starter to cover the rest of the year (Maddux, although it seems the Dodgers are the front runners for him)? Do the Braves try to get an outfield bat on the cheap? I say we take a chance on Nelson Cruz of Texas, who has the dreaded “AAAA” tag, but is lighting up AAA pitching right now - .349, with 37 HR and 95 RBI. It might take a pitching prospect to get him (as long as their name isn’t Hanson or Medlen ), but he might be worth a look.

By Robert S

July 31, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Another Old Fogey, glad to know I’m not a lone voice in the wilderness!!

And Bob Gibson was, for me anyway, the biggest bad_ss who ever pitched. He should be a model for today pitchers - mean, intimidating, and just plain nasty. And Tim McCarver was actually the lucky guy, because he got to catch him!

By Lew

July 31, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Doc-I have no idea where he’s gotten off to. Probably sulking in his bathroom or out stripping a car.

By Austin

July 31, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

DOB

Wasn’t Moylan in the roo-nad scheme as well?

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

Here are some stats from some “real” pitchers:

The Express 773 GS, 222 CG and 61 Shutouts

Lefty 709 GS, 254 CG and 55 Shutouts

Big D 465 GS, 167 CG and 49 Shutouts

Diz 230 GS, 154 CG and 26 Shutouts (mostly done in 5 years) during that 5 year span, he also relieved in 66 games, with 29 saves!

Diz’s baby brother, Daffy

Pitched for 9 years, but only successfully his first two seasons, then was injured and was never the same after his second year.

First two years: 38-23 record. 59 GS, 35 CG’s and 7 shutouts.

Both Dean brothers lead the 1934 Cardinals to the World Series, in which they won in 7 games. Daffy pitched a no-hitter as a 21 year old rookie!

Real pitchers!

By Austin

July 31, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

Damn Aussies.

Cost the Braves the season.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

Robert S, as I said above, I was told before leaving stadium that Cards were out of it now. I posted that update earlier.

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Anybody interested in a good read, go to the web address below, to read about “Dizzy” Dean. One of the most colorful characters ever to play the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

One platoon is hard enough on a team, but 2 wouldn’t work at all. Remember, these guys get PAID to PLAY and should be able to handle the job every day.wg

Hogwash! where do you guys come up with crap like this? The Yanks and Orioles just for two won any number of titles with one, sometimes two platoons. There is a certain percentage of fans who have some irrational hatred of platoons, but for the most part they are an important and successful part of baseball. There have been hundreds of players who were not good enough to play every day who were part of highly successful platoons.

By ccrider

July 31, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

I am sad to hear of Ohman’s emminent departure. We get a low level prospect that will certainly have no impact next season and possibly never even make it to the show. Frank Wren and Braves management needs to look no further than this season to see what a good bullpen can mean. The Braves have lost so many 1 run games because of 2 problems: the lack of clutch hitting and the failure of the bullpen. If you must trade someone send Soriano and his $6 million salary in 2008 to a contender for a low level prospect. Sign Ohman for 2 years at $3 mil per year and you still have $3 mil to sign another solid bullpen pitcher. We can go out and over spend to get Sabbathia or Sheets, we can trade for Roy Halladay or Zack Greinke or will can bring up Thomas Hanson. GUESS WHAT? They rarely go more than 7 innings and you need 5 good bullpen pitchers at least to bridge the gap. Gonzalez and Soriano(IF HE CAN FIND A CHICKEN TO SACRIFICE AND DECIDE HE IS HEALTHY ENOUGH TO PITCH THAT DAY!)and maybe Moylan are all the decent bullpen pitchers we have for next season. So, on the days they need off, the game goes extra innings or the starter gets into high pitch counts we get BLAINE BOYER, ROYCE RING or their 2009 versions that we promoted to quick, their out of options or some other team cut them loose even though they had a great ERA of 7.84. FRANK WREN WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSIN BAG!!!! THE BRAVES LOST A LOT OF SERIES IN THE 90’S BECAUSE THE BULLPEN WAS WORSE THAT THE OTHER TEAM! Don’t make the same mistake as your former GM, the pitching staff needs to be strong from top to bottom!

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this

It has been said when Bob Gibson was Joe Torre’s pitching coach during the dreaded 80’s in Atlanta, he had some colorful comments when he visited the mound.

Asked one day what he told the pitchers when he visited them on the mound, he stated: “If there weren’t so many people watching, I’d whop you up side your head!”

McDowell, are you reading?

By Roman Gal

July 31, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

Wayne I wholeheartedly agree. I want to see the young guys play.

Speaking of the Minors…

Brent Lillibridge has been hitting like a mad-man the past 10 days. He’s hitting .400 and has an OPS over 1.000 during that time.

Jordan Schafer has started coming out of his month-long slump with an 8-game hitting streak. During those games he’s hit .419

Tommy Hanson has continued doing great work and has 122 strikeouts in 110.1 IP.

On the flip side, Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman have really been struggling lately. Both are hitting about .240 in the past 10 games. But Heywards struggles have lasted a little bit longer whereas Freeman was absolutely KILLING the ball before his recent slump.

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

ROBERT,

besides picking the underwear out of your arse and criticizing bobby do really have any other talents.

if you cant see the current talent on this team is somewhat dearth, then i really feel for you.

please name me one position player sans macc ( who was supposed to be keeping the position warm for salty,) that this organization has developed to be all star caliber.

no pitchers, davies, homrunio, chuck-n-duck, pie eating mcakay mcbride, boyer, devine etc.

positon players, thorman, johnson, hessman, helms, langerhans, pena, nitram odarp, etc.

yeah keep blaming cox.

it is his fault.

kind of like stuffing sawdust in a engine just to get a few more miles out of a car.

so who do you put in a game late?

boyer, ring, tavazez, carlyle.

they all stink. soriano’s arm is shot.

so who else all you super genius types?

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

oh by the way,

the only thing we dont have in common now with pittsburgh and cinci, is now what?

a frickin river.

get used to it.

By jtb

July 31, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

Another Old Fogey

Joe Torre was a catcher during his playing days…

By Chop Chop

July 31, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

uga-brave,

Why argue with the guy? He just likes to blame Bobby for everything. Shrug your shoulders and move on. Bobby doesn’t need a defense attorney. Anyone with a brain knows that this season wasn’t his fault…or last season…or the season before that. In addition, all of the Braves’ success wasn’t because of him. That’s right. There are shades of grey here. Yippee. It’s just like everything else in life.

Anyway, how about Frenchy tonight? Two big hits for the fan favorite!

The AA manager that high-crawls and throws rosin bags as hand grenades taught him well, didn’t he?

(Go back to ripping Frenchy, dude. It’s more fun to read.)

By Dallas

July 31, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

DOB

I agree about Boyer. It seems he’s always getting ahead in the count, whether it be 0-2 or 1-2. It is difficult for him to put batters away. He’s got a good fastball, but I guess it is pretty straight. And hitters can look for the fastball, and adjust to his curve since it is a slow curve. I wonder if he’d be able to develop a slider to his arsenal…

By rupert

July 31, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

DOB, agree with you, hope they are raising the anty on ohman, they don’t have to trade the guy, he’s the best lefty on the market save fuentes who might not even be on the market, shouldn’t just give him away, if they keep him they would get some kind of pick if he leaves, but i’d love to see them sign them, they have plenty of money next year and 3 mil would be decent for maybe 2-3 years with an option, sounds like he’d take it, the way boyer and others have looked, i wouldn’t dissmiss the need for another good arm down there next year, plus he’s a hell of guy, that should count for something right?

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this

i said all off season that this thing looked like it was put together with chicken wire.

looked good from the outside, but if you really looked at the design you would see the flaws.

for all you andruw haters, the guy was the anchor of that outfield for ten years.

hated the word stop gap from the beginning.

scary thing is stop gap when healthy has been the best of the three.

diaz had all of two doubles in 135 at bats. francoeur has 7 extra basehits and a .198 .avg in 120 at bats with .risp.

think about that?

to add insult to injury, he is 3 for 24 with the bases jacked.

yeah it is bobby fault.

oh and your about to say why did bobby keep trotting him out there everyday, who is REALLY better?

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

chop chop,

bobby’s merits stand on their own.

he will be in the hall of fame.

hats off to frenchy, the .oba is coming up. kinda funny what happens if you take a walk or two.

never said the guy does not have talent.

always thought he was blinded by his greatness. no excuses now, zero pressure.

in reality, no way he is not the starting right fielder next year.

he was supposed to be RYAN BRAUN before ryan braun became ryan braun, right?

By Another Old Fogey

July 31, 2008 2:24 AM | Link to this

jtb I am not sure I understand your post. Joe Torre was a catcher during his playing days…

Yes, he started out as a catcher for the Milwaukee Braves, moved with them to Atlanta and was later traded to the St Louis Cardinals for Orlando Cepeda. For the Cards, he played mostly third. I do know that in 1971, he hit 363 and was the NL MVP.

Later, he returned to Atlanta as the manager, where he brought along his old friend, Bob Gibson as the pitching coach. He managed here from 82 to 84, finishing 1st in 82, second in 83, and 3rd in 84.

He also managed the Cards and the Mets, but didn’t really have any managerial success until he hooked up with the Yankees.

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

old fogey,

you ever wondered why bob gibson never got another pitching coach job?

i know the reason is somewhat obvious, always heard he was a hard arse, but at some point i would of thought he would of mellowed.

the mound was high back then and he brought it better then anyone else.

By BA

July 31, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

We didn’t need Teixeira. Boyer has become an excellent run-producer.

By uga-brave

July 31, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

over unders on the longest losing streak the rest of the season.

i put it around 8.

69-93 to end the season.

By Bravo Nam

July 31, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this

DOB, Mr. Ohman and Others

Why does trading Ohman now mean the Braves don’t want him next year? Everyone from Mr. Ohman himself to bloggers are suggesting that if the Braves trade him now, we don’t want him.

Ohman is a free agent at the end of the year. If they trade him now, they get a player and can still resign him at the end of the year. If they don’t trade him, they give up a prospect. Doesn’t it make sense to trade him now- get the prospect- and resign him?

Irrespective of whether the Braves trade him or not, they’re still going to have to pay him $3-$4 mill a year if they want him back. Why do the Braves have less of a chance getting him back if they trade him now?

DOB- does “Roo Nads” Stockman figure into the Bravos plans for 2009?

By Tomas

July 31, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

Just read that Josh Willingham might get traded now that there getting Manny from the Red Sox(speculation from Ken Rosenthal). It makes sense, and with the possibility that their gonna trade Jacobs to the Giants for Molina, they will have zero lefty bats in that lineup. They need a center fielder, and a lefty reliever. The Braves need a power bat to play left. I’m just joining the pieces of the puzzle here. Mark Kotsay, Will Ohman, and a low level prospect, for Josh Willingham. Willingham can hit, they don’t call him the hammer for nothing. And the best of all, he is locked for a couple of years and he is only 29. Wren make that trade look desireble for the fish, and the braves will have the lineup ready for next year, and Wren can focus on getting the starting pitching this team requires this offseason.

By Mike S

July 31, 2008 3:34 AM | Link to this

SeaAtl,

They mention Kool Korners closing in the Table Talk blog: http://www.ajc.com/search/content/shared-blogs/ajc/tabletalk/entries/2008/07/30/pleasedontlet.html

By Coach ( Bobby Cox is getting it done)

July 31, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this

Yes Sir, I’m damn proud of the job that Cox is doing right now. He has this team headed right down the crapper where they should be. The bullpen is shot to hell and the rotation hasn’t been much better since Hudson went down.

Five straight losses, lets make it ten or twelve. The Braves can only benefit from losing their a*******es the rest of the season. That top five draft pick in the 1st round is at stake.

Ya’ll think I’m crazy, well, like a fox. Remember Hakeem Olajuwon? The Rockets got him after deliberately tanking the 1983-1984 season and winning the coin flip. Olajuwon went on to a Hall of Fame career and led the Rockets to back to back World Championships in 1994-1995.

The example may be Basketball but the lesson is clear, high draft picks either go big or they go bust. The more losses this season, the better the draft pick will be.

By Quack Quack

July 31, 2008 4:20 AM | Link to this

since we need a righthanded power hitter to play left field for us next year, there are are only a few free agents that would possibly work for us.DAP

so what if there are only three? the Braves almost never spend on expensive FA. they will almost assuredly trade

By Coach (I'm a moron and I'm drunk)

July 31, 2008 4:27 AM | Link to this

And if Cox had gotten the top five draft pick in ‘81, he could have drafted Howard Johnson! And if he hadn’t blown that Rafael Belliard for Barry Bonds and Bobby Bonilla trade in ‘91, we’d have six rings!

(here’s where I spell something out)

      I-M-A-M-O-R-O-N-!


        Boom.

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 5:07 AM | Link to this

Baker would be a great uber-utility man. All 4 corners. Both are right handed.

What say ye, denizens?Wayne

Gotta say no to Baker. His away stats are .217/.279/.360. The prototypical Coors Chimera.

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 5:46 AM | Link to this

Melky isn’t that bad. Last year he hit .273 with 8 homers with 73 RBIs. Getting out of NY would bump his average by at least .020 points, and he plays a pretty decent center field.Noobie

Melky is strickly mediocre, poor OBP considering he has little power. As to your assertion that he would hit .20 points better out of NY, what would you be basing that on? His splits away from Yankee Stadium are actually worse in BA and OBP, though he does hit with a little more power away. I sure don’t want him.

By FAs

July 31, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

he top choices would be:

* Paul Byrd (1 yr 7.5 million)guess
* Oliver Perez (4 yrs 48 million)guess(Boras)
* AJ Burnett (5 yrs 60 million)guess
* Jon Garland (5 yrs 52 million)guess
* John Lackey (6 yrs 96 million)guess
* Derek Lowe (3 yrs 25 million)guess(Boras)
* Brad Penny (4 yrs 40 million)guess
* Ryan Dempster(4 yrs 48 million)guess
* Andy Pettitte ( 1yr 16 million)guess

Tomas

They have signed three FA in the last 16 years,do you honestly think they are gonna sign three this year? Hmm.

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this

DOB: If Kotsay and Ohman are dealt today, any chance we’ll see Wren make several callups for the final two months to evaluate?

Talking Anderson, Diory, Brandon Jones, Todd Redmond, Hanson, Luis Valdez? (MAYBE Schafer in September)

There’s absolutely no reason to watch this team when it’s such a skeleton crew and the flag has been raised.

Beating a dead horse here but Corky? Honestly, someone should lose his job for keeping him this long. (of course, I believe he has the pictures of Bobby at this point)

Maybe bring up Anderson and see if Bobby can play a different kind of ballgame the last two months?

Thank God for college football around the corner.

By Mike

July 31, 2008 6:46 AM | Link to this

I’m glad to hear Ohman isn’t going for a “lower level prospect”. I’m sorry, but I think the Braves could get more, considering that 6 teams want the guy.

The pitcher coming back has to be better than Brett DeVall, right?

People thought DeVall could develop into a mid rotation starter.

So I would assume the Braves are looking for better. Probably someone from a higher level, Double A?

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 6:47 AM | Link to this

One other thing…has anyone else noticed that our Richmond team roster looks like a AAAA squad?

Brutal.

By Joe da Man

July 31, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

Joe Torre was a catcher during his playing days

and a third baseman,and a first baseman, and a left fielder. C=903 1st=787 3rd=515 LF=2

;-0

By Quack Quack

July 31, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

One other thing…has anyone else noticed that our Richmond team roster looks like a AAAA squad?TommyP

I’d say it looks more like an AA roster, they lose as much as the parent club has lately. Definitely not AAAA. Lost again last night 11-10. Can’t say it doesn’t run in the family.

By Thrillhouse44

July 31, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

If Hudson is such a mentor to JJJ, do you think he could talk him into dropping Boras? The sooner, the better.

By Thrillhouse44

July 31, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

If Hudson is such a mentor to JJJ, do you think he could talk him into dropping Boras? The sooner, the better.

By MBPELICAN

July 31, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Griffey to White Sox.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

You still didn’t comment on what I said earlier. Why would you think Stanton isn’t a Jason Heyward? He doesn’t make a ton of outs. He has a higher OPS. He is the same age as Heyward. Again, for someone who values stats, what would lead you to believe Stanton isn’t Jason Heyward? The prospect lists? There are a ton of prospect lists. Boston, again shows why they are smart. While the Braves show why they are not.

Huh? Heyward’s career OPS is higher and his batting average is much higher. Heyward’s BB/K ratio is also significantly better. Heyward went 14th overall while Stanton went 76th. And Heyward is more highly regarded.

Not sure what you are looking at and what you are reading but Stanton is clearly no Heyward at this point. Ask any GM who they’d rather have.

Anders, yes, lineup protection doesn’t matter all that much in terms of team run production.

Look at Chipper’s best season—1999. He had basically a league average hitter behind him for most of the year. And he had his best season.

When are most hitter’s intentionally walked? When there is a man in scoring position or two, mostly. Most often when there are men in scoring position, first base is open and the other team needs a double play.

So if there is a lineup that is six-deep, like the Red Sox, you are probably doing more harm than good by walking Ortiz. You are adding a baserunner to more baserunners for whomever the leftfielder is, Drew, Lowell, Youkilis (if he’s not hitting second).

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Anders, also, I don’t think the Red Sox would give up a player like Youkilis or a much better package than the Angels did in order to get Teixeira for protection for Ortiz. So whether lineup protection is meaningful or not, doesn’t matter. The Red Sox trading for Teixeira wouldn’t have made sense, no matter how you slice it.

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

July 31, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

By uga-brave July 31, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

oh by the way, the only thing we dont have in common now with pittsburgh and cinci, is now what? a frickin river.

All the tears being shed on this blog should take care of that issue, uga-brave.

By Lee in S GA

July 31, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Even though the white flag was raised; it would be nice for this team to eventually win a game again this season. I saw where Willis Harris hit home run # 8 last night. Now I was no Harris fan and was glad to see him leave the Braves and my home is only 1 hrs drive from Cairo GA. That home-town grown stuff only goes so far; which brings up this thought. Harris only has 1 home run less that Frenchy this season……….who would have thought it.

By ckdawg

July 31, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

DOB, great points about Bobby Cox. Yes, every Braves fan would like to have 10 world series championships, or even 2. But listen to what the players and writers who cover the game say about him. Nothing but respect and admiration. And the chance to play for Bobby Cox might be the best carrot on a stick we have to offer potential free agents this offseason. The man’s a classic. Enjoy him while we can.

By Yep

July 31, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Yep, Griffey to White Sox.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Anders, also look at Bonds most productive season (per PA or per game basis). It was 2004 when he has his highest OPS and most runs created/game. Look who he had hitting behind him—guys like Edgardo Alfonso, Pedro Feliz, JT Snow and AJ Pierzynski. Look at the entire Giants lineup that season.

The Giants scored a lot more runs that year than they did the year they went to the World Series and the year they won 100 games (2003).

By IgCognito

July 31, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Anders, that was pretty good. Payne, of course the Sox would have been interested in Tex. You are obviously an intelligent person, but if you don’t think the Sox would have gone after Tex; you are simply wrong.

By NCBravesFan

July 31, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Another issue with this Manny trade is this: if you’re the Rays and you have a match-up with the Pirates on a Bay deal AND you can thwart the Sox attempts to dump Manny by getting Bay, what are you going to do?

By The Truth About Cox

July 31, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Kotchman is just the latest in a series of players who have come via trade or otherwise to Atlanta and raved about the opportunity to play for future HOF manager Bobby Cox. Even though it must be flattering to Cox and seemingly ammunition for the argument that Cox is still a great manager, at the end of the day it means squat. Nada. Nothing.

With the exception of some of the “old Braves” like Chipper and Smoltz, playing for Bobby Cox has never figured in a free agent staying in Atlanta when a better offer was on the table from another team. Sheffield loved “Mr.Cox,” as he called him, yet it didn’t keep him in Atlanta. Texeira also bragged on Cox, yet that didn’t keep him from following Boras lead playing to free agency rather than considering an extention. Even Tommy G. left for a better offer with the Mets. He, like the others, didn’t let the fact that Cox was a swell guy keep him in Atlanta.

So anyone who wants to extol the merits of Bobby Cox as a manager, please do so, but it’s tiring to hear the same ole’ “players want to come to Atlanta to play for Bobby Cox” thing. I know of no player who has come to Atlanta via free agency for less money to play for Bobby Cox. I know of no player (with the exception of Smoltz) who has stayed in Atlanta for less money to play for Bobby Cox.

That “Cox factor” is actually a non-factor.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

IgCognito, they have a cheap firstbaseman that provides great production. They have a DH. They have a very good thirdbaseman, so there is really no reason to move Youkilis to third. Even if they trade Ramirez, they are going to get someone like Bay or Willingham or Hermida. Their lineup has six players who are very good to great hitters. Why in the world would they give up players better than the Kotchman-Marek package for Teixeira? No way they would have given up much of anything to the Braves for Teixeira. If you think the Sox would have had more than a passing interest in Teixeira, you are simply wrong.

By Andy K.

July 31, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

The Truth About Cox…how should i put this lightly…you’re wrong. Do you think Chipper Jones year after year lowered the amount of his contract just for fun? He did so because of Atlanta, because of Cox. This town deserves a better class of manager…and Bobby Cox is gunna give to ‘em.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, I’m sure the Rays would make a trade for Bay if they don’t have to give up a ton of great prospects. I think the Rays probably realize the Sox chances to overtake them don’t change all that significantly whether Manny is there or not; the Sox aren’t going to move Manny without getting a pretty productive leftfielder. So the Rays are going to only worry about themselves. I don’t think preventing a Manny trade or doing things to make a Manny trade more likely is going to affect the Rays’ decision making.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

The Truth About Cox, I think the argument is players love playing for Cox; not that players will go out of there way to play for him when they can get much more money elsewhere.

By Goodoleboy58

July 31, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

As most of yall know I’m out here in the desert… But on AFN we get the DIRECT TV strike zone channel… On one instance I saw the Braves and the ticker across the top of the screen said they were running a promo to let you take batting practice out on the field if you bought a ticket package… Just wondering if anyone is taking advantage of this and what the details of it are…

By Mitchell

July 31, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

If we trade Ohman, can somebody stuff Boyer in his luggage? I mean, if he’s leaving by car put him in the trunk. And then you can strap Tavares and Ring to the roof?

Just because we’re lying in a trash heap right now doesn’t mean for any reason that you lose back to back games with Campillo and Jurrjens. I can’t believe what I’ve been seeing the last two nights. Come to think of it, I can’t believe that I’m seeing what’s taken place over the last three nights… and the three games before that, and the 90 or so games before that or the 324 games before that.

Why am I still watching? I don’t know. I’m trying to figure out where I am right now: have I really been a baseball fan all these years or have I just been a fan of winning baseball.

162 games of winning baseball that is. If you give me a decade and a half of winning every season and yet losing (almost) every post-season in increasingly soul-crushing and dispiriting ways vs. winning a World Series or two and then sucking every other year and yet still having bragging rights for years after… I guess I’d still take the former. But I don’t know why.

I guess I still like baseball. It would have been nice if Kotchman could have got f#@@%&# hit though.

And for a minute there I thought I had made peace with the Braves collapse and Teixeira’s departure but I guess I haven’t. The Angels have no idea what a waste he will be for them. They can’t really think he’s going to help them win the World Series anymore than having Kotchman would have? He doesn’t even really care. He just plays his best (sort of) and leaves. And he’s gone after the season anyway so, it’s their funeral. They’ll figure it out, but by then it will be too late.

Wow, that was a long one!!!

By DAP

July 31, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

quack quck so what if there are only three? the Braves almost never spend on expensive FA. they will almost assuredly trade

if you read my post that this is in response to, youll see that i said the same thing.

By Original Jon

July 31, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

What is going on with the injuries this year? Was Dr. Andrews having a 2 for 1 special on Tommy John surgeries?? What the hell.

By Katz

July 31, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I know of no player who has come to Atlanta via free agency for less money to play for Bobby Cox.

Greg Maddux turned down more money from the Yankees in 1993 to play for Cox.

By McFann O

July 31, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Dr. James Andrews examined Hudson on Wednesday in Birmingham and came to a similar concusion as Braves orthopedist Xavier Duralde

I know that guy!!

………a little…

By Random by LexCorp©

July 31, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Quack Quack: “so what if there are only three [few free agent … righthanded power hitter to play left field]? the Braves almost never spend on expensive FA. they will almost assuredly trade”

Ryan Spilborghs, anyone?

uga-brave: :oh by the way, … the only thing we dont have in common now with pittsburgh and cinci, is now what? … a frickin river.”

What — did somebody shoot the Hooch? Call 911.

Tomas: “Mark Kotsay, Will Ohman, and a low level prospect, for Josh Willingham. Willingham can hit, they don’t call him the hammer for nothing.”

One thing abour Willingham is that though he bats right-handed, he has fared this year significantly worse against LH pitching than against RH pitching (eg, BA .245 v .288; SLG .453 v .504).

This year against LHP, Willingham is .245/.375/.453. Against LHP, Ryan Spilborghs is .345/.449/.603.

Now I admit, you’ve got to factor out the Coors effect, but his away numbers don’t drop off nearly as dramatically as do Holliday’s or (presumably) Jeff Baker’s (per Moby Grape).

And also, I guess FLA may be more willing to deal before the trade deadline to make their play-off run — don’t think COL’s under the gun that way.

Who knows? We’ll see.

BA: “We didn’t need Teixeira. Boyer has become an excellent run-producer.”

That’s the spirit!!! And we can depend on Francoeur to produce the outs.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Mitchell, first, have you noticed Teixeira is better than Kotchman? And have you noticed money is no object to the Angels, so there is a very good chance they’ll do what it takes to sign him long-term? If they weren’t planning on trying to sign him long-term, I doubt they make this trade.

By Original Jon

July 31, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Katz, Greg Maddux didnt come to Atlanta via free agency in 1993, he had already played for Cox and wanted to stay there. I dont remember any player ever taking less money to play for Cox and he had not already played for Bobby.

By ernesto

July 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

How does Corky Miller not lean into one last night with the bases loaded?

I mean, even he’s gotta know he sucks by now.

I will dance the dance of Pratt-lessness when Corky sets sail on the SS DFA.

At least that’s something to look forward to in this bleak, injury-ravaged season.

By NCBravesFan

July 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Shaun - well that’s kind of my point. Bay is the best available bat at this point, and the Rays are in the market for a bat and have prospects to deal. So there’s a matchup there that makes the Manny trade complicated beyond salary issues/veto clauses/lining up the players involved among the three teams.

By brent a.

July 31, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

“Liberty Media owns the team. But they’ve allowed the management of the Braves to determine those answers. It’s totally left up to us — 100 percent. They’ve chosen to not have any operating activity. There’s no second-guessing whatsoever. I’ve said that before but people don’t believe me.” Terry McGuirk

That’s the quote of the day from Mr. McGuirk.

Sadly, I’m sure there are many that will continue to not believe him.

By DAP

July 31, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

original jon Greg Maddux didnt come to Atlanta via free agency in 1993, he had already played for Cox and wanted to stay there.

im pretty sure thats incorrect. maddux played for the cubs until 1993, when he started his tenure with the braves. i dont know what the yanks offered him or anything, but i do know that he signed with the braves as a free agent in 1993.

By Big Easy

July 31, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, not even sure if you will see this, and I am sure you love these requests (tongue firmly in cheek), but if you happen to run into Boog or Joe tonight, could you please pass along this bit of information?

They have been going on and on about the Cardinals’ jerseys—specifically, the gray not being the same shade for the tops and the bottoms. They have speculated that it has to do with perspiration, etc.

Actually it is because the material for the jersey tops are different than the pants. The pants are the standard polyester that has been used for years. The tops are the new COOLBASE jerseys. The fabric is moisture wicking. The gray color in those doesn’t match the gray of the polyester, and the pants can’t be made from the COOLBASE fabric because it is too light, and would be prone to rip during slides, etc.

For more info, they can check out Paul Lukas’ uniform blog UniWatch.

Just figured, since they mentioned it several times, they might like to know the answer.

~E~

By KC

July 31, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Original Jon: Actually, Maddux DID come to Atlanta via free agency in 93, and he had never played for Bobby Cox prior to that time. Also, Maddux did take less money to sign with Atlanta. There were higher offers on the table.

By Shamus Thacker

July 31, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

It’s the Georgia General Assembly’s fault that Tex wouldn’t sign with us. If they’d bumped-up the income threshold for receiving Welfare, to say 23-mil, that extra little bitta cash mighta made the difference.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, I see what you’re saying. I guess my point was only I don’t think Manny will affect the Rays’ decision making. The Rays are going to do what they think is best for the Rays.

By Katz

July 31, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Katz, Greg Maddux didnt come to Atlanta via free agency in 1993, he had already played for Cox and wanted to stay there. I dont remember any player ever taking less money to play for Cox and he had not already played for Bobby.

Maddux was a Cub. He was a free agent right before tyhe 1993 season. The Yankees offered more money to Maddux. Despite the higher offer from the Yankees and despite being represented by Boras, Maddux signed as a free agent with the Braves. Maddux had never played for Cox or the braves before he signed as a free agent with the Braves.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

I guess I still like baseball. It would have been nice if Kotchman could have got f#@@%&# hit though.Mitchell

Well, if it makes you feel any better, he fared better, or at least no worse, in his debut than Tex did in his with the Halos at Boston — and those at-bats against the Red Sox were a bit more important.

By McFann Ô

July 31, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Braves manager Bobby Cox said McCann rode the stationary bike Wednesday and could be cleared to begin light baseball activities on Thursday. —Ryan Lavner / MLB.com

Whoo-hoo!!

By Andy k.

July 31, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Corky Miller…great guy, always nice, always signs, pix with the kids. I’ve always liked him. but the poor dude can’t catch a break on the field or with you guys. Although, if we were to get another back-up, how about former Brave, Henry Blanco, he’s only played in 36 games because of Soto, but is hitting .293, 2 HR, 6 RBI. Even though Corky will probably round out the year wit the Bravos, and then even get an invite to Spring 2009.

By N8

July 31, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Katz

“Greg Maddux turned down more money from the Yankees in 1993 to play for Cox.”

Really? You don’t think had a little something to do with being paired with the 91 Cy Young winner, along with two post-season STUDS in Smoltz and Avery in one rotation?

Or how about wanting to play for a team that had been to the past two WS?

I’m not doubting that Cox had something to do with his decision, but at that time Cox was coming off of 2 winning seasons…..not 15 in a row.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, good point at 2:57 p.m. No reason the Braves couldn’t try to re-sign Ohman as a free agent if they trade him. If they made a competitive offer, he’d certainly consider it strongly. Told me that yesterday. He really does love pitching for this team….

TommyP: My God, man, how many minor league players do you want getting slaughtered on a nightly basis by major league teams? Braves aren’t going to turn this into an absolute circus (yes, some can say it’s already that … go ahead, write that line while I wait for you to come back to finish reading this … OK, back? good). Once they get McCann and Chipper back in the lineup, they’ll be OK. Not gonna make any run for the division title or anything, but also not going to lose five out of every six the rest of the way.

If they brought up the cavalcade of prospects, borderline prospects and other minor leaguers you’re talking about they’d get destroyed like they have the past few nights — for the rest of the season.

Again, I remind you that not everyone is watching on TV and capable of simply turning the channel. Plenty of people have paid big dollars for tix to see the remaining games. They did not pay to see a team full of minor-league callups for 50-some games.

By The Truth About Cox

July 31, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Andy K

Actually, I included Chipper as an exception (with Smoltz )as “old Braves.” IF you had read the post carefully you would have seen that right up front. And respectfully I think I’m quite right.

Shaun

What you pointed out was the point I was making. Essentially, if the Braves offer an identical contract as some other team, maybe Cox will make a difference. Obviously, that hasn’t happened yet.

Katz

Yes, Maddux did come to the Braves instead of the Yankees, but it can be argued that Maddux came to Atlanta for a myriad of reasons. It was, in his opinion, his best opportunity to be part of a winning situation on a young, up and coming team that seemed set to contend for years. In ‘93, Cox had yet to become the revered, almost mythical figure that he seems to have become today (in some folks eyes) There were many reasons Maddux came to Atlanta, but Bobby Cox being the primary reason, is a bit of a reach, don’t you think? Man this was ‘93! That was back when Cox was just considered a good manager and before he had been awarded Sainthood.

Let me expand just a bit more on the “Cox Non-factor.” This isn’t college football where a coach can have less than stellar results on the field but be known as a great recruiter. Pro baseball players go to teams that offer the most money. Yes, there are exceptions, but I don’t think even Smoltz and Chipper have stayed/worked in Atlanta soley based on Bobby Cox being the manager. It’s about the organization. Comfort level in the community. Family. etc. Did Bobby play a major part in their decision making and in fact may have been the deciding factor, but those two players have been the exception.

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

“Liberty Media owns the team. But they’ve allowed the management of the Braves to determine those answers. It’s totally left up to us — 100 percent. They’ve chosen to not have any operating activity. There’s no second-guessing whatsoever. I’ve said that before but people don’t believe me.”

Huh? Mr. McJerk, believe you me, we do believe you. When you have uninvolved owners who aren’t active with the operating activity and don’t second guess the management involved, there is no accountability for the results.

236-243 in the last 479 games sure sounds like no one is being held accountable. Nice to hear McJerk provide public confirmation that ultimately no one will be held accountable.

What kind of moron like McJerk boasts about having a boss who doesn’t hold him accountable? Friggin’ bizarre!

Last winter, McJerk said “many millions more.” Perhaps, he thought he was McDonald’s and he meant many millions served. I dunno. Whatever. But later on in the winter it came out that he regretted uttering the many millions more phrase. Now he is running around town puffing his chest out and boasting that even though his team is rapidly falling further and further below .500, there is no one above them to hold them accountable.

Sweet sassy moiassey, we need to change this guy’s name to McFoot in the Mouth.

In many ways I admire McFoot in the Mouth though. Imagine running an inferior product out there for three years and still telling everyone that I answer to no one?

By NCBravesFan

July 31, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Shaun - agree with your point completely. I see that one of the trade deadline sites is reporting that the Braves made an offer for Bay last week and that it was still the best offer out there. (Although I would think the Hudson injury may ultimately make the Braves reconsider. We shall see.)

With Bay under contract next year, I’m not sure that the Pirates will trade him for the sake of trading him. They can always hold on and try again in the offseason.

By JEB

July 31, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

My personal opinion is that the Braves should keep Will Ohman. We wil need guys like him out of the bullpen in the next few years!

He is like a Mike Remlinger (who was one of the BEST guys ever out of our bullpen!). He also credits Mike Remlinger for mentoring him as a relief pitcher.

By Original Jon

July 31, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

You guys are right, my bad, I got my years all mixed up, haha, again, my bad.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

I know of no player (with the exception of Smoltz) who has stayed in Atlanta for less money to play for Bobby Cox. That “Cox factor” is actually a non-factor.The Truth About Cox

Sounds like you’ve made yourself a convincing argument. It’s wrong, but so what? Stick to your story.

By KJ

July 31, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

I know DOB said the Cardinals were out of the picture, butI just read on mlbtraderumors.com that they would be willing to deal Lohse for a reliever and a bat. Could a Kotsay and Ohman get us a 12-3 starter with a 3.68 ERA? Just a thought. We need a solid, proven starter.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

And there is something called the integrity of the game that apparently TommyP doesn’t care about.

Imagine the outrage from the Wild Card contenders if the Braves were to play all those remaining games against the Phillies, Mets and Marlins with a roster full of minor leaguers. Imagine the outrage from the Brewers and Cubs in the series left with those teams. Or maybe the commissioner would have to get involved to protect the integrity of the game. I guess that’s what TommyP wants.

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

“We know with the kind of money we have coming off the books, we can talk to anybody we want in the marketplace,” McGuirk continued.

I don’t want to hear that you can talk to anyone in the market place. I want to hear that you can sign anyone you want in the marketplace. Someone needs to work with McFoot In the Mouth.

And enough with the talk and the delusional dreams that you offered an aggressive and competitive offer when you really did no such thing with Tex.

“There’s certainly a healthy bit of skepticism about the efficiency and the effectiveness of the free-agent marketplaceBut we have the ability to go out and get a real horse who can help take us to the top.”

You just traded one of the horses. So forgive me for having a healthy bit of skepticism about the efficiency and effectiveness of your empty promises.

Will Mr. McFoot In the Mouth regret this “ability to get a real horse” comment like he regretted the “many millions more” comment?

McJerk’s Indian name is McMany Million More Real Horses

By Threadkiller

July 31, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Just Curious..Does anyone know what the Red’s are asking for Adam Dunn?

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

KJ, the reason they’d trade Loshe is because he’s a Boras client and the Cards may not re-sign him.

By Chris

July 31, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

KJ Lohse is a free agent at the end of the year and a Boras client. I have a good feeling that the braves wouldn’t do that trade.

By Chris

July 31, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

KJ, ……. Lohse is a free agent at the end of the year and a Boras client. I have a good feeling that the braves wouldn’t do that trade.

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

That “Cox factor” is actually a non-factor.

that might be true to a large extent both ways. Most all of the Cox debate is started daily by someone coming on here and ranting about how terrible he is. The people who respond in Bobby’s favor then feel like they have to defend him and perhaps go a bit strong doing that, but for the most part they do not over-state nearly as much as the Cox-haters do. It really isn’t usually about guys getting on here spontaneously and bragging on Cox, it is usually about responding to posters like Robert and perhaps 8-10 others who frequently do jump on here for no other reason than to bash Cox.

I’m a moderate Cox supporter I suppose. I think he definitely makes some weird decisions, but so does every other manager in baseball. they are all only human. NYers bashed Torre mercilessly for the last 6 or 7 years. All fans look for scapegoats when things don’t go to their hopes & expectations and the manager is the obvious target on every team.

Even as a Cox supporter I’d prefer not to have constant discussions about him. I’ll be glad to never post again in his favor if they quit with the daily bashing, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen. :-)

By BravesFanInRockies

July 31, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

*he Truth About Cox *

All I know is what I hear. And in the FSN South special Bobby Cox: In His Own Words, Smoltz himself says that the only reason he has stayed in Atlanta and has not sought to go anywhere else for more money was because Bobby was the manager. (Chipper might well say the same thing.)

And he could have left on a couple occasions, especially earlier this decade when he wanted to start and not relieve.

I can still gripe about his bullpen management and some of his lineup decisions, but it’s pretty clear that the way Cox treats players has convinced some who are not solely motivated by money to play in Atlanta.

By Threadkiller

July 31, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Kyle Lohse is represented by Scott Boras..I can’t remember but isn’t Lohse a FA after the season? Does any one else know?

By ADC

July 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

If the Braves do intend to pursue Ohman as a free agent, might it make sense to not trade him so as to prevent him from possibly logging innings deep in October?

By The Truth About Cox

July 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Free agency in 1993 and free agency in 2008 are two different animals.

Maddux taking less money to play for the Braves in 1993 is basically unheard of today, especially from a Boras client. Are there exceptions, even today? I suppose there are. In ‘93 Cox wasn’t yet the figure that Cox is today. In ‘93, Boras wasn’t yet the figure he is today either.

I’m just saying that there are valid arguments that can be made that Cox is/was an all-time great manager without adding attributes to his resume that just simply don’t factor into the reality of his success.

Griffey wanted to play for the Braves, but not enough so that he would take less money to do so. A-Rod stated before he signed with Texas that he would like to play for the Braves, but he took a bizarre offer from the Rangers and left Atlanta as the runner up for his services.

It’s 2008. It’s ALL about the money.

By Shamus Thacker

July 31, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

The “bat” would have to be someone other than Kotsay KJ.

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Well, if it makes you feel any better, he fared better in his debut than Tex did in his with Boston — and his at-bats with the Red Sox were a bit more important.DOB

I didn’t see the Tex game , but how can you do much worse than 0-5 with 6 runners stranded?

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Could a Kotsay and Ohman get us a 12-3 starter with a 3.68 ERA? KJ

You just answered your own question, I think. Cards are looking for a bigger bat than Kotsay to trade a starter like that.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

No Coach-We don’t think you’re crazy. We know it without doubt or reservation.

By Moby Grape

July 31, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

or (presumably) Jeff Baker’s (per Moby Grape).Random

you sure you ain’t a politician Randy? Way to cover your butt. Too lazy to check it out but you wanna be certain you don’t get bashed if it’s mistaken. My Man! J/K dude.

By ernesto

July 31, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART - At the start of the season there weren’t too many people not excited about the possibilities of the line up and the rotation.

KJ has taken a step back in development.

Frenchy has had a nightmare year.

Tex got off to a slooooooooow start.

We’ve now lost 4/5ths of the original rotation.

The bullpen lost a key guy immediately and Soriano has been a non-factor.

McCann, Kotsay, Infante, Prado, Chipper, Diaz - all out for significant periods.

So in retrospect it’s easy to say that the Braves’ put an inferior product on the field, but it sure didn’t feel that way coming out of Spring Training.

With the exception of Corky Miller of course.

By Original Jon

July 31, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Well, if it makes you feel any better, he fared better in his debut than Tex did in his with Boston — and his at-bats with the Red Sox were a bit more important.DOB

I didnt realize Tex was traded to the Red Sox.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Braveheart-Have you gotten that out of your system now? Do you feel better despite the fact you’ve accomplished or proved not a single thi ng with your invective laden rant? Hope so. You’re capable of much better. Maybe now that you’ve cleared your mind you can suggest some meaningful solutions to our needs. Not that anyone in power will listen anyway, or for that matter, even know who you are or care if they did.

By Braves WIll WIn

July 31, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I almost would bet a $1,000,000 that the Braves would sign Dunn in the off season if they don’t get Bay at the end of the day. The Braves need someone to hit around 40 homers. (Bay would give us around 30)

Although Dunn hits for low average he would see more pitches hitting behind chipper and in front of McCann. Boy that would give us a scary line-up. As a matter of fact Dunn makes the 09 line-up stronger than with Bay.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Good morning, afternoon……….or whatever………

By BravesFanChris23

July 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Well, Ken Griffey Kr. is an official White Sox. According to MLBTR, Ken Rosenthal says Ken approved it.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Mike S: It does suck, indeed, that Kool Korners is closing. But if you haven’t been to Havana Sandwich Shop, just south of North Druid Hills on Buford Highway, then you MUST. Today. I think you’ll find the sandwiches and other Cuban fare to be quite comparable to that at Kool Korners. I love the place. It’s honestly as good or better than most Cuban places I ate at in Miami during my 13 years living in South Florida. It’s owned by a Cuban family and it’s a bit of a dive, the food totally authentic and very affordable (read: cheap).

By Tomas

July 31, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Just read that Josh Willingham might get traded now that there getting Manny from the Red Sox(speculation from Ken Rosenthal). It makes sense, and with the possibility that their gonna trade Jacobs to the Giants for Molina, they will have zero lefty bats in that lineup. They need a center fielder, and a lefty reliever. The Braves need a power bat to play left. I’m just joining the pieces of the puzzle here.

Mark Kotsay, Will Ohman, and Brandon Jones, for Josh Willingham. Willingham can hit, they don’t call him the hammer for nothing. And the best of all, he is locked for a couple of years and he is only 29. Wren make that trade look desireble for the fish, and the braves will have the lineup ready for next year, and Wren can focus on getting the starting pitching this team requires this offseason.

This trade would only be considered if the marlins get Manny, and trade Hermida, and Jacobs(for molina or another capable catcher).

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Original Jon, don’t know what you’re talking about. I said “at Boston.”

(actually, I just went back and fixed it. still was on my first cup of coffee after a very long night at the yard when I wrote that. good thing I didn’t rip you earlier, when I was about to, about another of your not-at-all original posts. I think it was one about all the injuries or something. Anyway, good thing I didn’t do that. I would have looked foolish, considering my faux pas with the Tex debut, huh?)

By The Truth About Cox

July 31, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

DOB

*I know of no player (with the exception of Smoltz) who has stayed in Atlanta for less money to play for Bobby Cox. That “Cox factor” is actually a non-factor.The Truth About Cox

Sounds like you’ve made yourself a convincing argument. It’s wrong, but so what? Stick to your story.*

DOB

Is that a bit of overstatement? I know Chipper has extended and restructured for the organization so they can be more competitive. I know Smoltz turned down a better offer from the Yankees. I know Maddux was comfortable with the Braves and extended as well. These are all part of the “old Braves”

DOB, please educate me on what players took less money to stay in Atlanta and play for Cox? I mean when a player extends a contract, it can only be speculated as to what that player might receive on the FA market. What player/players (other than old Braves mentioned in earlier posts)stayed for less to play for Cox? I know Hudson signed a deal with the Braves after his trade but it wasn’t a FA contract so who knows what he would have made.

Please educate me with some examples. If I’m wrong, I would hate to continue to voice an opinion that wasn’t valid.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I’m headed out to the ‘yard early today. Maybe we should just do live blogging type of thing from out there, while the ESPN deadline-day special is on and we monitor Braves developments from Turner Field. Sounds like a plan.

By Marisa Miller

July 31, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Thanks Andy K :) Mr. McGuirk invited me to see my long lost brother at last years spring break! OMG he told that he would fil me in every week with his progress!! The avg next to his name means he is a very good player :) and everybody knows a 93 is an A!!! If that boy Jergens didnt have a 98 Corky might have the rooky of the year!!!!

Gotta go. studying for a big blood test!!!

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

At the start of the season there weren’t too many people not excited about the possibilities of the line up and the rotation…. So in retrospect it’s easy to say that the Braves’ put an inferior product on the field, but it sure didn’t feel that way coming out of Spring Training.

Yeah, I was excited as well but you can’t really claim tough luck with this team. That’s a cop out. Since 2003, the Braves have been taking shortcuts. There’s only so many band aids you can put on broken bones before you realize that you MUST retain players in their prime. When your entire team becomes geriatrics, preexisting conditions, toddlers, rejects and league minimums, it”s only reasonable to expect a mediocre at best product because you have become a glorified Island of Misfit Toys.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Braves Will Win,

Dunn would be an impact bat, to be sure. I just wonder if the Braves would pay what it would take to lock him up.

He’s a defensive liability in the OF, and while that doesn’t bother me as a fan — I’d rather have the run production — the organization has shied away from players who couldn’t show a little leather unless they had no other option (as with Matt Diaz in left).

Also, the greater need is for a right-handed hitter. I’m just not sure he’s a match.

By GeorgetownKid

July 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

I hope Ohman stays with us.

I like having guys on the Braves who are fun to cheer for, and he seems like a pretty cool fella.

By Shamus Thacker

July 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Cuban is kinda like barbecue. If the windows are too clean and the appearance too slick, just keep rolling. If there’s not at least one fly in a BBQ joint, I take my business elsewhere…

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Just looking ahead to the forecast for our trip to San Francisco and Phoenix next week.

Highs of 59-62 in San Francisco and highs of 105-110 in Phoenix. Gotta love it.

By Original Jon

July 31, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB Its all good brotha. You could have ripped me, I would have been honered, but if you were referring to the 2 for 1 special that I was talking about, forgive me if someone else made that joke, I was bored and typed it, my apologies. But yeah, you would have looked foolish, but its all good.

:)

By ernesto

July 31, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART - Huh?

All-star catcher, All-star 3B, young stud SS, promising offensive force at 2B, Big-offensive threat at 1B, high-average hitter in LF, solid, gritty guy in CF, Last year’s gold-glove winner in RF.

That’s a line up made of “geriatrics, preexisting conditions, toddlers, rejects and league minimums”

Okay. But if that’s where your head is you need to jump ship to the Yanks, or someone else who is going to be spending 200 mil a year on payroll (not that that’s won them anything).

By Supes

July 31, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

What do you think the opinion of the Braves is on the Tom Glavine situation for 2009? Is it a “wait and see” approach, based on what happens when Tommy comes back in the remainder of 08 to pitch to prove that he still can be healthy and contribute?

Do you believe they will possibly bring back Hampton for a low price and incentive based contract (appearance based obviously, innings pitched kind of thing) fo 09?

With such huge question marks for the starting rotation 2009, will they make a push for a starting pitcher via trade or FA?

Is it safe to project a return for Chipper and BMac sometime next week?

BTW…I completely understand the point about maintaining intergrity of the game, and fielding your best team out there to play night in and night out, but don’t the Braves also want to see if some of the (almost ready) minor leaguers can play against big league competition in September? That four weeks could be big for someone like a Jordan Scheifer, or a Josh Anderson.

If Mark Kotsay is gone in 2009, I think you owe it to those paying fans, and to yourself to see what all your OF options are, and you also owe it to yourself to play Clint Sammons more (to get him some more experience at the major league level, if Corky is as good as gone for 09, and I hope he is).

It’s a point that could be argued both ways…the playing of young players in September that is!

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

I dont understand……….there is lots of talent in the major and close to being ready………both in the OF and IF and we cant make a deal to get 1 freaking power OF???

LILLYBRIDGE———-GOTAY————-PRADO————-INFANTE———-KJ————THORMAN————-JF————-KOTSAY————BLANCO————-BJ—————-SCHAFER————-ANDERSON———-DIAZ———-NORTON

Theres 14 playes right there Id deal 3 of those for 1 power bat………..cant we do that?

Except for GOTAY, they are all very talented………even NORTON is a good bench guy.

By Taylor S

July 31, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The Twins are supposedly shopping Boof Bonser. I know he is not the Ace we are looking for but a movie to the NL might make him atleast a serviceable back of the rotation starter with more experience than our young guys. If the price is not too high any chance the Braves are interested?

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Oh, Lew, are you related to McFoot in the Mouth? Under the delusion that you are one of his many million more real horses?

By Bullpen Woes

July 31, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

So does the pen stink because of overuse or is it because most of the the personnel manning it sucks?

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Supes

The condition on Glavine is the same as Smoltzs or even worse…………he is no coming back next year………he has a colder mind than Smoltz..

He will try to do it for the last timethis year……..whatever the outcome is……….dont expect him back next season.

Smoltzie………he would love to do it more time, but he is more banged up than Glavine……….he will soon know its time to say good bye.

Funny thing is that Glavine and Smoltz wont be with us next year but Hampton will……….LOL. Thats live……a crazy thing.

By g.g.

July 31, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Maddux didn’t sign with the Braves in 93 over the Yankees because of BC. He signed because the Braves were coming off of back to back World Series and the Yankees were 76-86 and had not been to a World Series since 1979 . Truth be told he didn’t WANT to pitch in NY not that he was in love with BC.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Deadline approaching………if Ohman is not traded, we could say we got ourselves a nice acquisition. There is no way Braves dont trade give and then let him walk at the end of the year………IMO…….but anything ccan happen in this game.

By KC

July 31, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

The only 2 things we know for sure about next year’s rotation are Jurrjens and Campillo.

Here are the other free agent options:

Top-tier pitchers:

• CC Sabathia

• Ben Sheets

• John Lackey

Second-tier pitchers:

• Derek Lowe

• AJ Burnett

• Oliver Perez

Options to fill out rotation:

• Maddux

• Glavine

• Jamie moyer

• Kyle Lohse

John Smoltz could wind up being a wild card for the Braves next year, and Mike Hampton could wind up falling in any of the above categories if he can avoid the DL.

If Hampton stays healthy and pitches well over the next 2 months, I wouldn’t be shocked to see the Braves bring him back (provided of course, they have a backup plan).

By westy12

July 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Random by Douchebags-R-Us,

The fact that your boy “Teshy” is gone has no bearing on the fact that the Braves have traditionally traded prospects to fill holes. The entire roster is not a “hole”, so the overall percentage of players acquired by trade is irrelevant.

Since last season’s trade deadline, the Braves had “holes” at 1B, CF, utility/bench player, and left-handed relief pitching. They traded 8-9 prospects to fill those holes.

Play semantics if you want, but young players who have not yet established full-time major league status are still prospects. Yes, Devine, Ascanio, and Ledezma qualify. And yes, 8-9 prospects in one calendar year is a pretty substantial number. It’s a tribute to the Braves minor league system that they can continue to do this year after year, while keeping good young players for themselves. jb was absolutely right.

Your arguments are self-serving in that you intentionally misinterpret opposing viewpoints in order to boost your own fragile ego, thinly veiled by your pretentious, condescending web persona. (See, I’m giving you credit for slightly better reading comprehension than you let on. You’re welcome.)

More importantly, you failed to answer the question of the day. Do you try to be a dick, or does it just come naturally?

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, the Braves have until Opening Day 2009 to get a power bat in the outfield. And the deadline this year isn’t until 4 pm today.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Bullpen Woes

Its kind of like having the best of both worlds…

But overuse sounds more like to me.

By geauxbraves2000

July 31, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Are the blue uni’s on the trading block today?

Geaux Braves!!

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

mlbtraderumors.com says marlins are interested in a catcher…….. we can offer them Corky……….right?

By THB

July 31, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

KC-Don’t the Angels have a team option with John Lackey? I’m not positive if it is mutual or team option, but I think it’s pretty reasonable too.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Manny deal reportedly almost dead.

Will the Braves make a push for Bay to set themselves up in left for 2009?

By Saltywoody

July 31, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

*Just looking ahead to the forecast for our trip to San Francisco and Phoenix next week.

Highs of 59-62 in San Francisco and highs of 105-110 in Phoenix. Gotta love it.*

Don’t worry. It’ll feel ten times colder than that at AT&T w/ the fog and the wind.

On the bright side, even the Braves will look good against what the Giants are running out there these days. 23 scoreless innings and counting. But, at least we get to watch Lincecum every five days or so out here.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Shaun

at least it is until 4pm if we want to get other teams to do crazy thing for help.

I know they can wait until winter…………..I suppose you have a point there………..but youll get mine if 4pm gets here and we didnt do anything about our OF.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

I dont think lackey is going anywhere either………angels have the money to pay him.

By N Nine

July 31, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Doc;………lightning strikes………MIKE HAMPTON touches his elbow and asks him……….”Does it hurts here???”

That explains the unexplainable…. …good stuff..i remember someone here was yelling why hampton was near huddy.so we pretty much traded huddy for hampton..oh what a year

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB/Shaun: Geez….chill out. I understand sometimes things don’t come across in print like they’re meant but re-read my early post this morning.

I didn’t say call up ALL of them. I’m talking a couple, ones that we want to see often to get an idea before next year. My list was just a group of kids that might be worth looking at in this capacity. Again, I never said call up all of these kids.

I actually suggested just one (Anderson) and wanted to see if Bobby could manage a different way (small ball).

As far as playing guys like Kotsay every day, I’m sure the season ticketholders wouldn’t mind not seeing a lot of him from here on out. Let’s see Anderson and Brandon Jones out there.

God knows a lot of these ticket holders can’t give Braves tickets away. (I know of a few)

Quack Quack: I suggested our Richmond team looks like a AAAA team because they’re so many re-treads, journeymen, older, unaccomplished minor leaguers filling the roster. AAAA meaning not good enough for majors but career minor leaguer.

Your AA teams usually have your most prospects. Richmond is devoid of prospects.

By GT80

July 31, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, I have a serious question that you may have answered before or you might just not even know, but bare with me, or just ignore this..who makes the personnel decisions for the major league roster, is it Bobby and Wren together, does Bobby have the final say or Wren, or is it a committe of most of the front office? I’d like to know who determined that Corky should be our back up catcher, that Resop was a better option than Tyler Yates, and a few others. Of course I have to give them some credit a well like taking on Blanco and Infante, but really..Corky?

And i’d just buy a jacket once you get to SF and then give it to a homeless guy when you leave, you want need it back here in ATL until October.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, not sure what you mean. You think the Braves could get a team to trade a power hitting outfield bat now more than they could in December or January?

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

When your entire team becomes geriatrics, preexisting conditions, toddlers, rejects and league minimums,Braveheart

Just curious: Which of those labels go on McCann, Escobar, Infante, Ohman, Moylan, Francoeur, Soriano and Teixeira (he was with the team until they pulled the plug, remember).

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Truth about Cox: No, by all means, continue on.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I dont think Braves will land Bay……….I think they would when they were in……….no need to pay the high price anymore…….If pirates didnt like what we were giving him when they “were in it”, I dont think they will like what theyll offer now.

By brent a.

July 31, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

You could be 100% correct that the Braves won’t get anything done this off-season that is noteworthy.

And, prior to LM ownership, I was in complete agreement with you about McGuirk’s comments. It was embarrassing the way he used to try and act like the Braves’ payroll slashing was some strategic attempt to create a team with the perfect balance of youth and veteran leadership.

It was bull, and if you didn’t believe it was bull when you heard it, all you had to do was watch the games and see the results.

That being said, this will be just the 2nd off-season under LM. And the first in which the Braves have a large amount of money to spend.

We’ve all seen this day coming, and hopefully, we’ve been looking forward to it.

Due to the former ownership, the Braves had a mismatched payroll, so to speak, due to the fact that some players had been signing large deals prior to the slashing. When the slashing came, it forced the Braves to give up some quality in exhange for holding onto certain high profile players.

We suffered accordingly.

But, last season, we saw the Braves go on a mini-spree at the trade deadline. We acquired Teixeira, Mahay, Dotel, and Ring. Not shabby at all.

There was no starting pitching to be had, though, and that cost us dearly.

While we did end up dumping some payroll in the off-season, it was in reality, a positive dump, as we acquired some pieces we needed, and let go of some unneeded dead weight.

We left spring training with a pretty good-looking team. It fell apart. A lot of that was due to poor production from 2 of the guys (Francoeur and Johnson) that the FO expected to really begin to step into their own this season.

It didn’t happen. Predictable? Maybe. But, to many, the prediction was that Braves would be WS contenders.

Now, we’re finally approaching the moment of truth with LM. Payroll is coming off the books in large quantities, and we are seeing that some of the young players may not step up and produce the way we need them to.

McGuirk is indicating that he is excited about the prospects of this off-season. My approach is to wait and see what he does, now that he says the Braves are finally at a point where they have the flexibility to go out and spend.

There is no more Hampton. We are not relying on Smoltz. Glavine should not be an issue. First base has been addressed.

The biggest payroll-related problem may well be Chipper Jones, in terms of a guy who may not give us production equivalent to his salary.

The Braves have a chance to be buyers this off-season, whether via free agency, or the trade market.

What is it going to hurt to wait and see what they do this year before making a final proclamation on LM and McGuirk?

Hey, if they don’t walk the walk, then I might personally write Bud Selig a letter, and let him know how he has helped play a role in the demise of the Atlanta franchise, by allowing it to once again wind up in the hands of corporate ownership.

But until then, I’ll chalk up 2008 as a “we could see this coming” season and look forward to the 2009 off-season.

By KC

July 31, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

TBH: You’re correct… team option for 09, so we can take Lackey’s name out of the equation.

By Renegator

July 31, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Blog Quiz

What inning will we see Boyer tonight?

What inning will we see Royce Ring?

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

How come JEFF FRANCOEUR, CORKY MILLER, RUBEN GOTAY, ROYCE RING, JULIAN TAVAREZ AND JOJO REYES are among braves that have not been injured???

Come on MOTHER LUCK……….have some mercy………..

By Harry

July 31, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

FYI, DOB

NPR has a stream from Waits’ show at the Fox a few weeks back.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92916923

By TDub

July 31, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

KC, I would rather eat my own head than have Oliver Perez on my team. A little Sabathia and Lowe action would be good though, we’ve got the $ for sure.

By N8

July 31, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

DOB

“Again, I remind you that not everyone is watching on TV and capable of simply turning the channel. Plenty of people have paid big dollars for tix to see the remaining games. They did not pay to see a team full of minor-league callups for 50-some games.”

I’m not trying to diminish people’s hard earned money and what they “expect” to see at the ball yard. But come on! Really?

People that have paid money for tickets and trips, would be MORE upset over seeing youth and the “future” of the club, than watching the “stars” suck?

As it stands, most of the stars are on the DL anyhow, so what’s the difference.

Just another reason that the “money” and business side of the game has changed how teams (and the league) are run.

25 years ago, a team in the Braves situation, would be relishing the next two months (after raising the white flag), to take a good long UP CLOSE look at the youth and future options they have.

Now they have to worry about upsetting rich snobs who “expect” something else.

Watching youth go through growing pains isn’t painful as a fan when the expectations are not high (I’m assuming there aren’t any Braves fans who have yet to give up on 2008), it’s actually fun and entertaining.

Watching some kids struggle to produce when the team is EXPECTED to contend, however, is frustrating.

Take advantage of the next two months of meaningless baseball, (in the standings - to us anyhow), and take a good look at who we call up, and look forward to 2009. Similar to the way Skip refers to games that go into extra innings…..it’s free baseball.

The Braves are now playing with house money. The outcomes of these games are significantly LESS important than the improvement and progress that the kids will (or won’t) make on the field.

I’ve never been to spring training, so this should be fun.

By TomL

July 31, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

DOB - Can you please suggest finding an “injury” to Jurrjens and Boyer to give them a little break. We don’t need anymore visits to Dr. Andrews. Why let JJ throw 116 pitches last night? The kids still only 22

By Section 412

July 31, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal reports that Pirates turned down Brandon Jones, Lillibridge, and two low-level pitchers for Bay. Says this sets a level over which the Pirates would need to get in the Marlins / Sox deal. Interesting.

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

All-star catcher, All-star 3B, young stud SS, promising offensive force at 2B, Big-offensive threat at 1B, high-average hitter in LF, solid, gritty guy in CF, Last year’s gold-glove winner in RF. That’s a line up made of “geriatrics, preexisting conditions, toddlers, rejects and league minimums”

Ernesto,

Geriatrics - Smoltz, Chipper, Glavine,

Preexisting conditions - Soriano, Gonzalez, Hampton, Kotsay,

Toddlers - McCann, KJ, Escobar, Jurrjens, Francoeur, JoJo, Chuck, Morton, Boyer, Acosta

Rejects - Diaz, Resop, Corky, Gotay, Norton,

When your team is made up of geriatrics, preexisting conditions, toddlers, rejects and league minimums, the one thing that will be predictable is how unpredictable they will be.

Look at the World Series winners this decade. The great majority of those World Series winners possessed players in the prime years of their careers. The Braves only had two premium players in their prime - Hudson and Tex. Now they have none.

Hudson and Moylan were about the only tough luck inuries. The rest were reaonsably forseeable. Heck, even Moylan’s injury was reasonably foreseeable considering the abuse he took last season. And, yes, I actually predicted that injury last August.

By Braves20

July 31, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

KC - Give me Sabathia in a close call over Sheets. Lohse would also be a nice pick-up. Some sites say he might be moved before 4 today.

Kinda scary how many holes we have to fill before the bell rings in ‘09. LF - maybe center, rotation. Should be set in the pen with minor adjustments, catcher, first, short and third and right. 2B could use an upgrade but not at the expense of the other needs. We can get by with Prado and Johnson.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-No, I’m not related to McGuirk (use his real name, your nickname thing isn’t really as cute as you seem to think). Quite honestly, I want to see some of those “many millions more” spent and spent well this offseason. I certainly do NOT want more 40+ year old ERx (that was meant to be EX braves, but the typo is appropriate so it stays) Braves from the Glory Years plugged in as reunion tour refugees.

What I was referring to was this-You are a Wurlitzer Winning poster-one of a dying breed. That post was certainly not worthy of you and was actually childish and infantile, literally Full of the sound and fury, but signifying nothing of any importance. As I said-you’re better than that, but that post doesn’t show it. Post something that will edify us, like you’re capable of-not trash like that. It is unworthy..

By timmy

July 31, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

The three way deal involvig Bay and the Sox is dead. We still have a chance to acquire Bay. Let’s see what happens

By Tomas

July 31, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

I think Bobby needs to use a lot more the running game. And not overuse pitchers so much other. Other than that I think he makes a good chemistry in the club house and players have a lot of repect for him.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I see what you mean……….but……….Manny is on the move, read someone mentioning something about Yankees wanting to move matsui…………Griffey is on the move………….etc.

By N Nine

July 31, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Some commentary from Olney, on ESPN: “If he’s not traded by 4 p.m. today, there’s a 1 percent chance that he finishes the year with the Red Sox. This has gotten so ugly,” said Olney, referencing Ramirez’s recent trade demands and lackadiasical play manny being manny in fron of no crowd?? will this attract people like the ‘97? Manny being Manny HHAA

By jtb

July 31, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

g.g.

The Braves made it to the World Series in 91 and 92 because of Bobby Cox, seeing as he was the GM who drafted, signed, and traded for most all of the players on those teams and then was the manager both years. So if it was the back to back World Series appearances that brought Maddux to Atlanta, then Bobby Cox was the reason for him signing with the Braves.

By Lee

July 31, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

It’s a shame the Yanks got Pudge.

I hear the Braves were close to a deal with them that would have sent Corky to the Bronx in exchange for a “Joba Rules” T-shirt, a prepaid MetroCard and two tickets to an off-Broadway performance of The Slugger’s Wife

Maybe to the Marlins for an Indian River fruit basket?

By N Nine

July 31, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

“Nobody wants to get swept in a four-game series,” right fielder Jeff Francoeur said. “Hopefully Mike is feeling a little better tomorrow and not as nervous as his first start. Hopefully we can get a win tomorrow night. It’s what we need.”

noticed the last week or so frenchy has been alot more vocial about the team. OH ya Gl mike hampton dont swing hard

By BravesFanChris23

July 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I hope some type of trade occurs that’ll help us for next year.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Heck, even Moylan’s injury was reasonably foreseeable considering the abuse he took last season. And, yes, I actually predicted that injury last August. Braveheart

Prediction is not the best term you could use………we all knew it was going to happen……..

What I predict is that Huddy is no coming back from this one……….he will end up like Hampton………he is thin and weak………I can picture him having same issues as hampton. Abdomen, shoulder, pectoral, cramps, etc.

Moylan is another story………he is a warrior.

By THB

July 31, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I heard Jaime Garcia is not with the team in AAA Cardinals…maybe he’s the return for Ohman? That would be an excellent return.

By jtb

July 31, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

You do remember that Diaz had an average around .330 the 2 years before this season. Needless to say, he’s not exactly a reject.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I’m not trying to diminish people’s hard earned money and what they “expect” to see at the ball yard. But come on! Really?

Then….

Now they have to worry about upsetting rich snobs who “expect” something else.

N8, it’s a matter of throwing kids who aren’t ready for the majors into the action against contending major league teams in the heat of the playoff race.

Plus there are considerations about service time and all of that.

Plus what about the integrity of the game? The Braves don’t owe other teams anything but at the same time you don’t want to play inferior players against a team in a close race.

Where did you get this idea that 25 years ago teams would have brought up a slew of young players at then end of the season to get an up-close look?

By bravesfaninnc

July 31, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

So DOB are the braves done making trade?

By Lew

July 31, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Tomas-And exactly which pitchers would you have used instead of those Bobby Cox overused? Where are these paragons of pitching? Have they intentionally hidden them somewhere and we didn’t know it? And please don’t tell me Stockman, who just came off of the DL or some A ball guy who’s having a decent season-the first since high school.

By Halberstram

July 31, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, I know you said the price for Ohman may be rising. My question is if we lost Ohman (of course I assume we’d offer arbitration), what type of compensation pick would the Braves be in line for? Is that something they may be considering in weighing what’s offered as well as possibly keeping him?

Watching the games right now is like being at Hamsterdam from the Wire. It’s interesting to watch, but you know you’re seeing something bad.

By Wayne in Utah

July 31, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Anxiously awaiting news that we got Ryan Freel, Chone Figgins or Carl Crawford for all our retreads!

:-)

By Renegator

July 31, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe now that the pressure to perform is off the players - they may actually get some hits.

By N8

July 31, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

jtb

“The Braves made it to the World Series in 91 and 92 because of Bobby Cox, seeing as he was the GM who drafted, signed, and traded for most all of the players on those teams and then was the manager both years. So if it was the back to back World Series appearances that brought Maddux to Atlanta, then Bobby Cox was the reason for him signing with the Braves.”

Uh. OK. Because that’s the same as “taking less money to play for Bobby Cox”, right?

I’m not denying that as GM Bobby put a helluva team together, and had done a good job at managing players egos and what not.

Many players that have been traded to Atlanta, have signed extensions stating that playing for Bobby was a reason to stay (some at below market level contracts).

So I’ll concede that when Maddux EXTENDED his contract (mid-season deal for a Boras client - keep in mind), that A BIG REASON was Bobby.

But in 1993, I’m gonna guess that “playing for Bobby” was not the main reason he CAME to Atlanta.

I guess only Greg would know.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

KC-Your options to fill out rotation are not even in the category of your wanting to get Ryan Freel. Please come up with something that won’t lead us down the same unsuccessful road we’ve traveled the past three years. No more retreads and rejects from losing teams. For the first time in years we actually have money, even if salary levels remain the same. Think a bit bigger.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Halberstram, I don’t think it can be determined yet whether Ohman would be classified as a Type A free agent or Type B, so don’t know what the compensation would be.

By jtb

July 31, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Also, wouldn’t you consider Diaz’s injury a tough luck injury? He did hit his knee on the concrete portion of the wall…that’s not exactly a forseeable injury.

By Saltywoody

July 31, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Looking ahead to the available free agents this off-season, it doesn’t look like there’s much the Braves would be interested in. I can’t see them ponying up any money for the Jim Edmondses and the Livan Hernadezes of the world. That was this year, when they were trying to patch things together around an older nucleus for one last shot.

While Wren says they have a shot to contend next year (and I agreed with him at least until the news about Huddy), my gut tells me they’ve got to be looking to 2010/2011. So, who fits that mold in the free agent market?

Adam Dunn would be nice because, while his average sucks, he gives you the power and the RBIs that left along with Tex. But he was already making $13 million this year and can only be in line for a raise over and above that. And would you really want him for another 3-5 years at $15 million a year to hit .230, no matter how many home runs or RBIs he gets? I wouldn’t.

So go here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html and see who you think fits.

I’d see bringing Glavine back if he finishes this year healthy and the price is right. Juan Rivera is crap…don’t go down that road. And so are most of the other available starters.

So, logic (not always applicable here) dictates that the Braves’ best chances lie with internal options and trades. That’s why the Kotchman trade was a good one- it landed a long-term, solid, affordable replacement at 1st that prevented the Braves from being forced to pursure an over-priced, under-performing alternative on the free agent market.

Keep your fingers crossed and hope Frenchy, Blanco, and Schafer (or some combination thereof) can progress, with Diaz mixed in here and there. Yunel, Kelly, and Krotch are a solid infield, assuming Yunel and Kelly progress a little too (especially fundamentally). Hopefully Chipper maintains his relative health and re-ups with the team for a few more years. Mac is a mainstay behind the plate. So, like it or not, most of your position players are set.

The area of focus has got to be pitching. Morton is a long-term answer. So is JJJ. Don’t know about Campillo…this year could easily be a fluke. Huddy’s done for next year (best case, we have him for the last month or so). Therefore, you focus all the money coming off the books on this area:

1. You resign Ohman. No questions asked. He’s already said he wants to be here. Get it done. He solidifes your bullpen for years to come.

2. You get Gonzo, Soriano, and Moylan healthy. Easier said than done, I know. But you get two of those three back (Moylan around June, Gonzo w/ a full and healthy offseason to strengthen his arm and sharpen his stuff, and Soriano w/ the help of a psychiatrist), and you’ve got a solid back-end of the bullpen. Acosta/Boyer/Buddy/Etc. can be mixed and matched, along with up-and-comers and spring training suprises to round it out. But you give me Ohman, Gonzo, and Moylan for the 7th, 8th, and 9th, and I’m confident you win a heck of a lot more ballgames than you did this year. And all three of those guys are still fairly young, so you can lock them up for a while without much fear. Soriano, of course, is gone after next year which frees up even more money to keep the other three.

3. You use the cash you’re saving this year to sign maybe ONE free agent pitcher. Who? Beats me. Sabathia would be outstanding. Ryan Dempster would be great. Brad Penny/Derek Lowe/Randy Wolfe would be the second tier if the others don’t work out. But, you only sign one of these guys and then work out the rest. The last thing the Braves need is to overextend on the free agent market and get stuck with another Hamptonesque contract.

4. Speaking of which, you get Hampton to sign for 7 years for $5 bucks. That way, when you take into account his last contract, it about evens out, assuming he pitches more often than not the next seven years. He owes us at least that much.

By Renegator

July 31, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Quiet day on the trade front. Either nothing is going to go down or they are all waiting for the last minute.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Lee-You mean in addition to Corky, we’d have to give them a fruit basket, too? I’d go for it.

By Shaun

July 31, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, why would the Braves trade for Manny, Griffey or Matsui? Considering their contracts, ages, and/or injuries, are those the type outfielders you want the Braves to get?

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Why is it that there are some that still defend Bobby Cox???

Braves are falling………and he does nothing about it……….except contribute to the free fall.

Dont give me that injury crap……….no manager in history could help this situation…………..

Lets see………….muts have lost or have or had injuries to………PEDRO, HERNANDEZ, ALOU, CASTILLO, SCHNEIDER, DELGADO, WAGNER, SANCHEZ, PAGAN, BELTRAN, CHURCH, NIXON, MAINE, VARGAS, WISE, BURGOS, ARMAS and have fired their manager………..But they have managed to keep head over water.

What about LARUSSA ?????? He has Ricky ankiel, matt clement, chris duncan, mark mulder and adam wainwright as key players at this moment in DL…………..lost for the year…………..jaun encarnacion, tyler johnson and josh kiney……….not to mention he lost Pujols for a period of time and he is playing hurt just like chipper. Their ACE………Carpenter didnt throw a pitch until last night……….but he has managed to stay in the race and he might go into the playoffs…………he could have easily won the east or the west………..if cards miss the playoffs is because they are in the central.

What abour Jim leyland……………..tigers were playing horrid baseball for the most part of the season……….he managed to turn it around…………….same goes for rookie manager, Joe Girardi……….yankees were like 8 games under .500, now they are 10 above…………thats is called managing.

Even the royals and the orioles have better records than us…….

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Preexisting conditions - Soriano, Gonzalez, Hampton, Kotsay,

Toddlers - McCann, KJ, Escobar, Jurrjens, Francoeur, JoJo, Chuck, Morton, Boyer, AcostaBraveheart

What’s gotten into you, my man? Guess I’ll wait another day or two before reading your next post, after you’ve (hopefully) released all this.

But you can’t be serious: A two-time (now three-time) National League All-Star catcher is a “toddler”? Kelly and Francoeur, who are going to be eligibie for freakin’ arbitration, are “toddlers”?

Oh, and did you just decide that Soriano had a “preexisting condition” despite the MRI he had done when they flew him to Atlanta this winter for a complete physical before signing him to that two-year deal? A preexisting condition that didn’t show up on the MRI, I guess, that they should’ve known about anyway?

(And if you’re going to start ruling out signing guys who’ve had TJ surgery in recent years, you can rule out about 40 percent of big-league pitchers, including some very good ones).

By N8

July 31, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

shaun

“Where did you get this idea that 25 years ago teams would have brought up a slew of young players at then end of the season to get an up-close look?”

So are you trying to say that with Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson, Chipper, McCann all out with injuries, Kotsay and Hampton essentially “day to day” with their own health and Tex being traded, that the Braves should actually make trades at the deadline to IMPROVE their team, as to not hurt the “integrity” of a pennant race?

I didn’t see anybody in Philly or NY complaining when Blanco was making starts for Kotsay that the “integrity” was being ruined.

Did anybody complain about integrity of the game in the late 80’s when the Braves consistently fielded inferior teams?

I don’t see any other managers and GM’s suggesting we sit Francoeur because it’s to EASY to beat the Braves with him in the lineup.

What other frickin options do we have, but to play young guys with the injuries we have?

We had a good team in March (on paper), and then all hell broke loose on the injury front, and our “star” RF decided to not show up all year, following suit with Tex’s April and May.

We don’t owe a damn thing to the Phillies and Mets. We need to give guys like Jo-Jo, Morton, Blanco, Brandon Jones….maybe even Schafer some playing time and see what they are made of.

The ONLY reasonable portion of your post was the portion about “service time”. No sense starting the “clock” on somebody NOT in the immediate future plans.

But if integrity of the game was at stake, Bobby wouldn’t have a catcher hitting BELOW .100 on the 25 man roster, much less starting games with McCann out.

I don’t see the Cardinals complaining about it, right?

By Bobby's Cox

July 31, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

N Nine

How cool would it have been to see a quote from Hampton:

*”Nobody wants to get swept in a four game series. Hopefully Jeff hits tomorrow like we were expecting him to all year. Hopefully this isn’t another game where the starter goes 6 and gives up 1 or 2 runs in a tied game. Hopefully the offense can wiggle out a few more runs, lead by the under-performing right fielder.”

By timmy

July 31, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

By Wayne in Utah

Anxiously awaiting news that we got Ryan Freel, Chone Figgins or Carl Crawford for all our retreads

Can’t see us getting Figgins or Crawford…those guys are in contention races and on 1st place teams, I know that is wishful thinking but go ahead, continue to dream.

Ryan Freel? While he just kills lefties, he wouldnt be useful to us this year unless we were in a playoff run, then his versatility would extremely useful to us.

By MBPELICAN

July 31, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

White Sox are close to acquiring John Lannan, if this is true i hope we jump in to get him, Lannan is only 23 years old.

By LT-AA blogger

July 31, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

I’m hoping that the Braves keep Ohman (unless they get a major league ready type of player) and try to resign him. With Moylan being a question mark for next year, I think they’re gonna need him (especially with a young pitching staff).

I’m hoping for an early call up for some of the minor league players. I’d like to see Schaefer get a shot. I know Blanco’s done a servicable job but just don’t see him as the answer. Anyone in left would be fine with other than Norton.

I beg the Braves! Please stop playing Norton and Miller. Please!!! I just can’t watch a game with those two in the line up. It pains me to no end. I mean why? What is the purpose? They are not going to have anything to do with this teams future. Why torture the fans who really love this team? I have nothing personal against either of them and understand the injuries have led to this. In fact, Norton is not a bad pinch hitter off the bench but everyday? I implore you BC! No more Corky. No more Norton. Bring up some A, AA, AAA players and let them have a shot. I just can’t take it any longer. As God as my witness……If Corky so much as sniffs the line up next year, I will not like the Braves anymore! Ok there- I feel much better- thanks for letting me share.

By Run Heap Run

July 31, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Nine N or whatever - I’m always amused by how Frenchy literally hides from the reporters when he stinks up the joint but let him get a hit or two or make a good play I envision him standing in the middle of the clubhouse welcoming in the press.

2 hours 4 minutes left on the Ohman watch. And the Manny? The Marlins? REALLY? watch. I really hope Ohman is still a Brave in 2 hours and 5 minutes.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Somebody please give another explanation other than bad luck……….please somebody mention at least one other team that had this much talent: and werent even buyers by the deadline…………………1st time in last 30 years at least.

Bad luck??? no……….Im sorry but its not acceptable……when your roster has the following players:

MIKE HAMPTON, JOHN SMOLTZ, TOM GLAVINE, CHIPPER JONES, MARK TEIXEIRA, YUNEL ESCOBAR, JEFF FRANCOEUR, MARK KOTSAY, BRIAN MCCAN, RAFAEL SORIANO, MIKE GONZALEZ, PETER MOYLAN, JORGE CAMPILLO, JAIR JURRJENS, TIM HUDSON,

Ill leave PRADO, INFANTE, BOYER AND BENNETT out of it, but you can clearly make a case out of them.

and you cant find a way to get them to perform and get 90 wins………….something is wrong with your head. I know lots of them are young……….but the young have performed extremely well………everybody hurt by coincidence????? no way in hell………youll excuse me………

By Lee in S GA

July 31, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Manny would be content being on this current Braves team has lost their minds completely. During one of these continuing lopsided defeats the man would jump the fence or find a way to climb the wall and be up at “Turner Beach” drinking beer with the drunken fans and “hot” girls who could care less if the Braves won the game in the 1st place. And who could blame him. At least he wouldn’t hang with the rich snobs. Manny would do his best to get traded out of Atlanta.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I never said those were the players we needed…………and you are right………they are old……….they were just examples of players on the move.

By McFann Ô

July 31, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Run, Heap, Run!—

I’m hoping the same thing.

Now it’s down to an hour and 54 minutes!

By McFann O

July 31, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Doc H.—

Why do you spell McCann with only one N?

By ncscoots

July 31, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

You [Braveheart] are a Wurlitzer Winning poster-one of a dying breed.

More like the last of the 300-game winners, if you ask me. I’m sure the percentages have tipped to more bloggers unaware of even the existence of Wurlitzers than otherwise. Chances of an award-winner from the current neighborhood bunch is pretty slim, I’m guessing.

Somehow, I just can’t picture an epic of the stature of the RROE suddenly popping up, can you, Lew? And most here (probably) wouldn’t care if it did.

By jtb

July 31, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

N8

I was trying to say that because had the most to do with the Braves getting to those World Series, that if the reason for Maddux coming to Atl was because of those World Series appearances then he essentially came because of Bobby. I don’t think that he came to “play for Bobby” because Bobby hadn’t really gotten as much hype for being a “players manager” until a few more years down the road. I don’t even think that phrase was used very often until the late 90s.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 31, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Renegator (answer to 1:18 blog quiz)

The same inning. Neither will finish it.

By Random

July 31, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

westy12: Like I promised, I’ll keep this simple for you.

Disagreeing over the meaning of a word is not “playing semantics” — it’s simply disagreeing over the meaning of a word.

For me, nobody on a MLB 25-man roster can still be considered a prospect. For that matter, nobody on an MLB 40-man roster is still merely a prospect in my eyes, but I can see where reasonable people might disagree on that.

So I’m willing to concede your point on Ascanio — he was likely just a Sep call-up and never on the 25-man roster — but not on Devine, who was on the Braves’ 2005 play-off roster, and certainly not on Ledezma, who as early as 2003 had pitched 84 innings with the Detroit (AL) Tigers and had 4 years/250 IPs in MLB before he ever donned a Braves uniform. These two were no longer prospects when the Braves traded them.

“The entire roster is not a “hole”, so the overall percentage of players acquired by trade is irrelevant.”

I disagree — every single spot on the active 25-man roster is a hole that has been filled. Simply tabulating the origin (Braves prospect, free agent acquisition, trade, etc) of each player on the 25-man roster can quickly and easily tell you how the Braves have filled those holes.

If you cannot understand that, there is no use continuing the discussion.

If you disagree with that method, propose another one you think is better.

Further, you cannot persuasively support a statement like “The Braves typically do trade prospects to fill holes, that is a fact” by using only data “Since last season’s trade deadline” (less than one year).

“8-9 prospects in one calendar year is a pretty substantial number.”

As I stated previously, Tex and the 4 or 5 “prospects” we traded for him is a glaring counter-example, perhaps even “the exception that proves the rule”.

I’m sure you remember how “scandalous” it was that the Braves gave up so many prospects for just one year-plus rental and one 2-month rental? Would there have been such an uproar if that kind of trading behavior actually was “typical” of the Braves?

Like I said, every spot on the active roster was once a hole that has now been filled. Look at each player on the roster, and tell me how the Braves got him. That will reveal how the Braves have “traditionally” filled their holes.

Finally, as far as I know, there have been no “misintepretations”, intentional or otherwise (not counting the disagreement over the definition of prospect) — you say the Braves fill their holes by trading their prospects. I say they don’t. It’s that simple — what has been misinterpreted?

By duh

July 31, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Plus what about the integrity of the game? The Braves don’t owe other teams anything but at the same time you don’t want to play inferior players against a team in a close race.??????????

haha … that is what they are doing now WITHOUT finding out if their prospects are really any good. I think they sometimes hype the kids and hope to trade them without anyone seeing them play at the big league level and realizing the prospects really weren’t that good.

By Wayne in Utah

July 31, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

timmy Sorry my friend, but that post of mine was an inside joke from the last couple of winters. Insider type stuff. Totally non-serious.

In my posts, if I have a smiley face after my post, then most of what I am saying is tongue in cheek.

One more lesson in MIB/BBQ/Music Blogging: If someone is being totally obnoxious or totally anal, someone might nominate them for the “your and idiot” of the day.

Grammatical errors in that statement are required. Someone a long time ago (we don’t really remember who) stated “your and idiot” to another blogger, and it kinda stuck.

Grammatically correct, it should be “you’re an idiot”.

No charge on the blogging lesson this afternoon. Trade day bonus, you might call it!

Now, where are my Ryan Freel rumors??? You’d think Ohman would be enough to get us a stud player like Freel!

:-)

By duh

July 31, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

N8 gotta give a big chunk of credit to JS because it was his addition and his signing of Belliard, Nixon, Bream and T.P. that made the difference. Cox was here before as G.M. and they were still losing and they didn’t exactly tear it up when je took over as manager for the part of the 1990 season. JS was a bigger reason for 1991 and 1992. But let me say this I do not discount what BC has done and at the time he was the right guy for this club. All I am saying is they are now stale, old, lacking in basic fundamentals. His 3-run homer style of baseball is dying and he won’t let go of it. Name one pitcher he has developed that reached some success since Millwood. Just one. He is not good with the kids and doesn’t like to play them. It is just time man, just time for a change. This team has no life. He deserves as much credit for all the World Series and playoff runs as possible but now he also deserves the at least some of the credit for an old, slow, dead team that he helped put together that has no chance.

By Bobby's Cox

July 31, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

I hope Manny doesn’t leave Boston. He needs Boston.

I mean, where else can he disappear mid-inning and do his thing? I don’t want to see highlights of Manny relieving himself in the left field corner like he’s pulling over on a long road trip. Would the grounds crew have to break out the dry sand for him? Think what you’re doing Manny….you need the green monster, and fans don’t want to see yours.

By Jim

July 31, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

One good point is that Kotch’s Crotches will be at the game tonight. Also, Frank Wren, you suck!

By Braveheart

July 31, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

What I will say in my defense on this is that McGuirk guy gets on my last nerves. He ticked me off all winter with that many millions more comment. And then I woke up and read this:

“Liberty Media owns the team. But they’ve allowed the management of the Braves to determine those answers. It’s totally left up to us — 100 percent. They’ve chosen to not have any operating activity. There’s no second-guessing whatsoever. I’ve said that before but people don’t believe me.”

I’m sorry but as a fan it should be impossible to not get ticked off that Cox, Wren, Schuerholz and McGuirk are not accountable to the owners. Not when the results have been so miserable over the last 479 games.

Everyone has to be accountable to someone in this world. The players are accountable to the manager. The manager is accountable to the GM. The GM is accountable to the owner. The owner is accountable to the media and the fans.

If the owner refuses to be accountable to the media and the fans and never holds the players, GM and manager accountable, then who the hell is ever going to be accountable for anything with the Braves?

I was going to let things go because without Smoltz and Hudson and Tex, the season and near future is screwed anyway. But I just had to wake up this morning and read this bozo McGuirk make all of these empty promises to talk to horses again when he just traded away his best horse. Gimme a friggin break.

By MGL

July 31, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Doc, is the period ley on your keyboard stuck? Between all of the gaps with periods, the all caps, and sometimes bold words, I cannot read your posts. Just cannot get my eyes to focus with all that garbage.

By Wayne in Utah

July 31, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Gotta say, if the Marlins want Manny for the stretch run, it might work out. BUT, if they are being asked for prospects, then they should run FAR away from anyone who would suggest such a trade!

Lew I do like your idea to cut the dead wood out. I am just a bit skeptical of who we would use to fill out our rotation if we eliminate ALL the old codgers.

Let’s make an assumption that Bay does not get traded today, and it essentially available in the fall. If it was your team and money, what would be 2-3 moves you would make to set us up to be competitive in ‘09 and beyond?

While listing to XM 175 over the next hour and 27 minutes, I will do the same.

Any others are welcome to chime in. (except for that Willy Wally guy, who is too danged smart for the rest of us country bumpkins!!)

:-)

By Tomas

July 31, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I think that in last nights game Boyer was outta of the question. The guy is struggling, and I guarantee you it has something to do with his major league leading 57 appearances, and some of those apearances where more than one inning. Also remember how Acosta began to struggle too, because of using him every single game, when there are pitcher like Buddy Carlyle, and Jeff Bennet who are well rested and Bobby never uses them. I just think the bulpen wouldn’t be failing the way they are if he wouldn’t use Boyer, Ohman, and Acosta so much. It’s better to use Tavarez, Carlyle, and Bennet to use instead of Boyer right now, because Boyer is not going to be better than the others by the way he is pitching.

By Gary

July 31, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

The Truth About Cox has shown how lacking of baseball knowledge he is. Maddux came to Atl in 93 after turning down a 5 year, 55 million deal to the Yanks. Also people might not remember but the 92 Yankees were not that bad and the 93 Yankees finished in 2nd place behind the Blue Jays. With Maddux, that run of WS appearances could have started a little earlier. He came to Atlanta for a 4 year, 45 million deal and was said to have liked the Team (Glavine, Smoltz) and the Management (Cox). He resigned in August 1997 for the same reasons.

Also Remember that Marquis Grissom wanted to come here in that trade because of it being his hometown and the idea of playing for Cox. Same thing for Brian Jordan in 1999, Andreas Galarraga, Walt Weiss, Ozzie Guillen in 1998, Gary Sheffield’s trade in 2002 and Paul Byrd coming back in 2003. The list goes on and on. Obviously you don’t know the truth about Cox, just your misguided point of view.

By Cecil34

July 31, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

McFann

I guess the Tex/Kotchman deal shelved the experimental plans for Mac to try first…

Ah, the best laid plans…….

Hope he is recovering and will be ready soon….

By Bobby's Cox

July 31, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Marlins get Annibal Sanchez back tonight, 2 weeks after getting Josh Johnson back.

That team.

By Bayou Brave

July 31, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

If Kotsay isn’t traded within the next hour and a half does that mean the Braves intend on offering him somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2 year contract in the offseason? Shaffer pretty much laid a royal goose egg this year and nobody else really challenged Kotsay while he missed a month earlier this year.

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

July 31, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

More like the last of the 300-game winners, if you ask me. I’m sure the percentages have tipped to more bloggers unaware of even the existence of Wurlitzers than otherwise. Chances of an award-winner from the current neighborhood bunch is pretty slim, I’m guessing.

Scoots, That analogy fits, too. I was thinking along the lines of the Jedi.

I can’t say much about it, because I never won a Wurlitzer, but I know of it’s origins and have seen many of the award-winning posts……back when I was merely a young Hillbilly from the Natural State ;-)

By Lew

July 31, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Scoots-That’s one of the reasons that Wurlitzers are no longer being awarded (in addition to the fact they now take almost twice as long to do). Most here either don’t know what they are or flat out don’t care. As for the Rookie Rules-well………

BTW Dude, Just read the new Chop Talk. The Glavines have a dog named Scoots.

Timmy-Wayne’s comment was tongue in cheek. It has been a blog joke for several years now. I guess it’s like the Wurlitzers-too many rookies who don’t have the frame of reference.

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

By Shaun July 31, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this And there is something called the integrity of the game that apparently TommyP doesn’t care about.

Integrity? What the hell? Why do you think so many pitchers do infinitely better in September? Could it be because a lot of minor leaguers have been promoted and are receiving playing time? So according to you, the game lacks integrity in September.

Monday’s Braves lineup:

G Blanco LF 4 1 4 1 1 0 0 .271

Y Escobar SS 5 0 0 0 0 1 5 .280

M Kotsay CF 5 0 1 0 0 0 4 .289

G Norton 1B 4 0 2 1 1 0 0 .224

O Infante 3B 5 0 0 0 0 0 6 .283

K Johnson 2B 3 1 1 0 1 1 3 .264

J Francoeur RF 3 1 1 1 1 0 0 .232

C Miller C

Uhh…no thanks. I’ll take minor leaguers in the place of half that lineup.

By Bobby's Cox

July 31, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Are you guys serious about Freel?

Why would you want Freel? Dude is as injury prone as Chipper. Played 123 games in last 2 years and is currently on the DL. He’s a lifetime .272 hitter with a .733 OPS.

Tell me you were joking…please? I’d rather watch the kids play the last 2 months than Freel, Kotsay, Corky, and Norton.

Btw, when is Prado going to get his chance? Anderson? Last night’s lineup was a joke, you know, with the season done and all.

By BravesFanChris23

July 31, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

So far an uneventful trade deadline. Hopefully, it picks up withing the final hour.

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

By duh

July 31, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Gary I love the way you throw out names of guys who WANTED to come here that were traded for as well, Dude they had no choice. (and no one walks in th door saying I don’t like the manager) And by the way when all of those players left was it because they didn’t like Cox anymore? Also this isn’t really about liking Cox, hell I like the guy too. It is about he has lost the ear of his team. They have quit on him. His style of managing, for whatever reason, is not working anymore. So its time to move on. The time comes for every manager, it isn’t personal.

By monty

July 31, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Manny needs to be handled like Barry Bonds is being handled. Nobody is too big for the game. Maybe if he was released and nobody picked him up he could go out and work in the real world like most of us. But of course he has already made so much money he never has to work again. So. he can keep on being Manny.

By MAV

July 31, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Do you work for the Atlanta Braves?

What’s that…….no.

Than i guess they aren’t accountable to you or anybody else thats not an employee of there’s. That’s the bottome line. If you don’t like it, don’t watch the Braves. They put the team in a good position before the season started. Things didn’t work out. It happens. Be grateful for all the winning seasons we had. Deal with it!

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

DOB: My retort to Shaun basically covered your response and his but I didn’t get the chance to respond to what you said that end…basically saying everyone doesn’t have the option of turning the channel and pay big money for tickets.

My brother is one that has season tickets and can’t give them away. He kind of hates the fact that we have to watch Corky and Norton and a few others.

You actually think Braves fans don’t want to see what we have on the farm? Again, you misread my post this morning if you thought I wanted ALL of those guys brought up now.

If you think Braves fans want to see Corky, Norton, Infante, Gotay and even Kotsay starting at this point, you’re sadly mistaken.

I’m thinking that you personally don’t want to see the rooks because you HAVE to watch every remaining game. That’s all I can figure.

I’ll leave you with a quote by Hank Aaron back in the ’80s when they let Horner go: “We finished last with him, we can finish last without him.”

Get something accomplished while we go through what is about to be a dismal stretch.

By TommyP

July 31, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

DOB: My retort to Shaun basically covered your response and his but I didn’t get the chance to respond to what you said that end…basically saying everyone doesn’t have the option of turning the channel and pay big money for tickets.

My brother is one that has season tickets and can’t give them away. He kind of hates the fact that we have to watch Corky and Norton and a few others.

You actually think Braves fans don’t want to see what we have on the farm? Again, you misread my post this morning if you thought I wanted ALL of those guys brought up now.

If you think Braves fans want to see Corky, Norton, Infante, Gotay and even Kotsay starting at this point, you’re sadly mistaken.

I’m thinking that you personally don’t want to see the rooks because you HAVE to watch every remaining game. That’s all I can figure.

I’ll leave you with a quote by Hank Aaron back in the ’80s when they let Horner go: “We finished last with him, we can finish last without him.”

Get something accomplished while we go through what is about to be a dismal stretch.

By Lew

July 31, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Tomas-They are all overused (and honestly no more effective than Boyer)-Bennett and Tavarez have been used a couple nights in a row. Acosta is on the DL. Carlyle has been God Awful his last several outings. I ask again-who would you use? There is little difference at this point. For crying out loud, how many runs has the pen given up this week? They certainly weren’t all given up by Boyer. Maybe you think Gonzo or Soriano should have gone out there, coming back from injuries that sidelined them for more than half a season as they are?

When you have most of your starting staff on the DL for the better part of the season and pitchers like Morton the other day who go 2 2/3 IP in their start, then overuse of your bullpen is going to happen and if you’re not aware of this then you’re naive in the extreme. Last night, Bobby Cox even let Jurrjens throw over 110 pitches. Do you seriously think he would have done that if not in consideration of his pen? Did you even consider that pre game he asked the pitchers who felt they were up to another inning or two and Boyer volunteered?

Managers do what they need to do with the personnel available at any given time. I point you to Gene Mauch’s 64 Phillies stretch drive where he alternated Jim Bunning and Chris Short starting every other day. That’s all he had left at that point.

This is why I will keep harping that we no longer need to sign any 40+ year old pitchers (or those injured for three years) no matter how good they once were or how big a Fan Favorite or Great Brave they WERE, We need to sign pitchers who can go 7 innings a start, almost every single start. THEN and only then will the bullpen NOT be overused.

By N8

July 31, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

jtb

I hear ya. I have no problem admitting that Maddux came to Atlanta because the team was in position (especially when he signed on), to make a historic run (which they did), barring major injuries.

I also have no problem admitting that Bobby Cox (as GM) was a big part of putting the team together, that made those runs (but as duh said, JS had his hand in it as well), thus Bobby is partially responsible for Maddux choosing to come to Atlanta.

What I AM disputing, is that in 1993, having never played for him, Maddux took less money (Yankees offered more), to sign with Atlanta so he could “play FOR Bobby Cox” as many here have stated OTHER players have done. I don’t even dispute that others have done so. I just don’t think it was a deciding factor in 1993 for the reigning Cy Young winner.

ANY TEAM was gonna be better with him on it. One could argue that Cox has gotten such high praise as a manager BECAUSE Greg Maddux chose Atlanta.

Had Maddux gone to NY, one could argue that Buck Showalter MIGHT have been the best manager in the 90s.

It’s a two way street with Maddux.

By Bobby's Cox

July 31, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

LIneup I would like to see for 1 night:

Blanco (LF), prado, escobar, mccann, infante, kotchman, francoeur, anderson (CF), P

or

Blanco (CF),escobar, kotchman, macann, infante, kj (LF), prado, francoeur, P

By Gary

July 31, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Duh, I did not throw out names. Talk to those players and will tell you the same thing. Also lets look at some of them and see why they left.

Grissom - Traded to the Indians because the Braves had a young Andruw Jones coming up.

Galaragga - Production fell and the Braves did not offer him any money to come back. The summer after that he told a newspaper in Dallas that he wished the Braves would have offered him some money to stay.

Weiss - Rafael Furcal - enough said!

Guillen - Retired to go into coaching.

Sheffield - wanted to stay, but AOL cut the payroll down to 80 million and the Braves could not even offer Sheff what he made the year before.

Brian Jordan - traded and still came back when his contract was up. Now gets to interview Bobby on a daily basis and takes up for him on FSN and Sports South.

Paul Byrd - TJ surgery and the Braves got Hudson in the offseason. No room or money for him. Was quoted as saying he wanted to come back.

Also only Sheff and Grissom were traded. The rest came here as Free Agents.

By Wayne in Utah

July 31, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Integrity. Interesting term. In baseball, it has a multitude of definitions. Does Manny have any integrity? How about Scott Boras? (does anybody really believe that Manny got all worked up all by himself, without some prodding by his agent, who stands to only get paid if Manny’s option is NOT exercised.

OK, back to my point. Whe facing contenders for the next two months, we need to put out the best possible team we can. Does that mean we couldn’t bring up Brandon Jones and plug him into LF, or to bring up Lillibridge to play third, or plug in Sammons while McCann is still ailing (certainly couldn’t be any worse than Corky!).

I would not advocate running out 5-6 rookies while playing the Cubs, or Brewers, etc. I don’t think that putting a couple of rookies in the lineup would damage the Braves integrity. Besides, we are a frickin Mash unit as is!

When playing non-contending clubs, I would sure love to see 3-4 youngsters in there for the next 2 months. Also, let’s plug in a rookie pitcher or two when it is not a critical game (or if we don’t have anybody else who can chuck it up there.)

Now that I have said that, I am not sure that I needed to…..

56 more minutes. Ohman’s price keeps getting higher, especially with his sense of humor, which should bring in a mid-level prospect all by itself!

By David O'Brien

July 31, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

The owner is accountable to the media and the fans.Braveheart

What world you living in?

By westy12

July 31, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Random,

Here’s why your roster percentage method doesn’t work. Take the recent history of the SS position, for example. Furcal left, and there was no can’t-miss prospect to take over. Hence, a hole.

The Braves traded a prospect for Renteria, filling the hole at SS. Before Renteria’s contract expired, another top prospect, Escobar, showed that he was ready to take over. The team was able to save money, and acquire two prospects by trading Renteria.

Escobar didn’t fill a hole. There was never a hole to fill. Renteria would still be with the Braves if Escobar wasn’t ready to take over.

If you don’t understand this, there’s no point in further debate.

So, I say jb’s casual statement that the Braves frequently trade prospects to fill holes was perfectly reasonable. It certainly didn’t deserve your typical condescending remarks and personal attacks.

There are plenty of examples to be cited, just as I pointed out to you with Renteria, but most of us don’t have time to research well-known facts to satisfy your silly “where are your footnotes” game. Pointing out that a blog poster didn’t provide a bibliography doesn’t make you the winner of any debate. Nice try though.

Or maybe not. Maybe DoucheBag.com didn’t think your last post was worthy of sponsorship? I don’t know why, I thought it was right up there with your typical smarmy responses.

By Doc Holliday

July 31, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Experiments is what has this team playing AA baseball.

If they want to do experiments, they should buy a lab, not a baseball franchise.

Lets see, lets try KJ at 2B————— result———-average.

Lets try Corky as backup————worst ever.

Lets try Kotsay—————-average

Lets try Soriano——————-below average

Bring up JF from AA————-final result—————-getting worse everyday.

Lets try Glavine—————below average

Lets try woodward—————next to worst ever

Lets try Norton—————fighting for average

Lets try James, he might be ready———-wrong, and same goes for morton and jojo

Cant this team buy or bring up players that give some results???

McCann, Yunel and Jair, thats it in last few years. Add TEX??? not sure. Campillo??? still has things to prove.

What players have the braves brought up of traded or signed that their final result was at least as expected last 5 years and stayed here at least 3 years (talking some stability here, which is an important point here)?

McCann, Jair, Ohman (we still dont know), Moylan, Hudson.

Thats it, maybe im missing 2 players.

We have produce in our farm ZERO SP since, lets see, millwood??? Cant expect to win if you do that.

Traded for how many good young studs that have made it to the majors? Jair??? Campillo is only a nice surprise, he still has not convinced me, not talking about talent, but durability and the fact that he will have to adjust to the adjustment league makes against him…….

position players……..Yunel, Mc. Who else??? nothing.

Relievers……..none………moylan and gonzo are big question marks.

If we dont get 2 leaders at least, one pitcher and one OF………dont expect better than 4th place next year either.

Big issues: Braves are still counting in JF and KJ to break through. KJ has a greater chance in doing so, but JF. Oh god, our eggs are in that basket, immediate future doesnt looks too bright.

By N8

July 31, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Tommy P.

Your 2:56 was a perfect response (especially the Hank quote at the end). Kinda reminds me of last night.

Sure, Kotchman went 0 for 5. But the result was just as good as the results with Tex.

The only “group” of people that I can think of that DOB would be talking about when saying fans would be upset, are the rich people that aren’t really baseball fans, that buy the good tickets and luxury suites as to entertain clients and show how much money they got.

Essentially, they consider it a “social” occasion.

Because I can’t think of ANYBODY that I know, that considers themselves a die-hard baseball fan that would rather watch scrubs like Corky and “stop-gaps” like Kotsay, play two months of meaningless games.

NONE. If I had planned a trip to go see the Braves play this September and spent a ton of money (like it always costs me - since Coors Field is the closest NL stadium to me, at a mere 800 miles away), I would be MORE pizzed about watching the “scrub” lineup play games, than getting a first hand chance to see some kids play.

Same goes for football. I’m pretty darn sure that my Chiefs are gonna suffer a miserable 2008 campaign. But you know what? They’ve gone with the total youth movement, and it’s gonna be exciting to watch, regardless of the W-L record.

Sure as hell can’t get any worse than the 4-12 debacle last year with all the has beens and never will be’s playing meaning snaps in December.

I think DOB is confusing people who spend a ton of money on the games and “fans” who actually care about what’s going on with the team.

You all know the type. The guy sitting behind you on his 4th beer that can’t understand how a pitcher can throw two strikes, and then when the pitcher throws a waste pitch, or tries to get the batter to chase it, says: “Man…..this guy is inconsistent. He throws two perfect pitches, and now he can’t find the strike zone.”

I’ve stated before that I’m an NBA D-League season ticket holder (only thing resembling pro sports near where I live). I couldn’t care LESS about the inner workings of the franchise (both locally & which NBA teams they represent). It’s a tax write off (advertising comes with my “table”), and my 10 year old and 8 year old boys LOVE IT. It’s something to go do.

The Extra Inning package costs a fraction of what those tickets cost. Yet I’m MUCH more passionate about Braves baseball, yet haven’t been to a Braves game in person, since 98.

If the people that bought the tickets to pro-sports events cared about their “dollar” spent, there wouldn’t be so many no-shows when the team is sucking.

Play the kids.

By Oz

August 1, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

TTF was once a haven where life actually made sense. Now it’s chaos run amok just like most everywhere else.

By LuisGuillermo

August 2, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Here we are now, entertain us! I feel stupid, and contagious! Here we are now, entertain us!

C’mon, Braves, people are still going to Turner Field… so play better for the fans or they will stop going to the ballpark, like they did a couple of years back.

By cvxz obupgsd

November 3, 2008 5:51 AM | Link to this

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