Braves

By Renegator

July 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

1st?

By bulldogbubba

July 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

first

By Steve

July 29, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

first

By Mike

July 29, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

How about a rotation of Sheets/Perez, Jurrjens, Adenhart, Reyes and Morton/Hanson? It could happen.

By Steve

July 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

can get in line for Sheets or CC…man can’t believe we have to talk about next year already!…It sucks…too manh holes in Atlantas line-up tho…just please tell me we’re not going to end up like the Nats or Royals or Pirates in the next couple of years

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

First?

Thanks for the new blog, Chief.

Hey, just a quick question: Was McCann at the game last night? (I know you were too busy with all the Tim Hudson stuff to answer last night. No prob.)

By Bill in VA

July 29, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, I haven’t heard anyone talking about how much Ohman will command on the market. Are the Braves exploring the possibility of keeping him?

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the Tracy, Micah Owing deal is a good Idea. Owing has lost it and to tell you the truth his stuff isn’t that good. His fastball is only reaching the 89 mph mark, and havind serious control issues.If Wren really has the biggest weapon on the market right now he should get something better. The D-Backs are trying to play chicken like Seth Everet(from mlb.com) said, so Wren don’t fall for it, they need a power hitter, and their race is pretty tight.

By Vol4ever

July 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

The Braves have become a 2nd rate organization from top to bottom! Nuff said

By bulldogbubba

July 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Please do something to improve this team! Get some pitchers that don’t look afraid to be on the mound. I don’t see them pitching with confidence on their face,just a look of concern. Gonzo is the only one who goes to the mound and pitches with a determined look on his face. We need our starters to do that.

By SR

July 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I have tickets to both the August 5 and August 6 games against the Giants at beautiful AT & T park in San Francisco. Taking the wife and kids and still going.

I do have a question however. Why the willingness to move Will Ohman, is there no chance of re-signing him? After all, he is one of the only consistent relievers in an otherwise underwhelming bullpen.

By RAR

July 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Well friends, now you all get to experience what we Braves fans of the 70’s and 80’s went through when we finished last almost every year and didn’t have but one starting pitcher we could count on for a win and only 2 or 3 hitters who hit more that their weight.

It has been a wonderful run since 1991 and I hope the Braves can rebuild in a hurry, but I doubt if we will be a contender anytime soon, unless the management goes after the same type of players the Florida Marlins have acquired, then maybe a run or two at the East title.

Just remember, what will be, will be and brother this is going to get brutal.

By tr

July 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

DOB

What’s up with Diaz? I thought he wrapped up his rehab appearances and pronounced himself ready, but haven’t seen or heard anything since.

By Graham

July 29, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

Now that the white flag has been raised, do you see the Braves doing a total overhaul of both players and coaches for next season? Or do you think that only minor changes will be made, pitchers excluded?

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

(Plug in Ohman or Tex here), we hardly knew ye.

thanks, DOB, for dredging up the specter of that truly godawful 1986 team. thanks a bunch. here’s my dog, wanna shoot him while you’re at it?

By N8

July 29, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

67th?

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

McFann, I don’t know. We didn’t get to talk to him before game, never saw him in clubhouse.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Most similar players to Casey Kotchman through age 24 according to baseballreference.com similarity scores:

1. David Ortiz

2. Nick Johnson

3. Connor Jackson

Now, these aren’t perfect because they are comparisons based on stats—which are affected by playing time among other things—and not necessarily ability. So odds are probably against Kotchman putting up seasons as big as Ortiz’s best seasons.

But these are not players who played 15-20 or 50 years before Kotchman. These are recent players. So there is probably at least a little bit of something to the comparisons. I think it’s safe to assume Kotchman would likely turn into a very good firstbaseman.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute—Micah Owings? Micah Owings?

Micah Owings had a 2-homer, 6 RBI game against the Braves at Turner Field last year!

Besides, what’s he done this year? 6-9 with a 5.93 ERA? Please no.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Tracy and Owings might be better than two draft picks, but that is still a sorry return for Tex.

Unfortunate that this is what it has come down too.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

tr, I think Diaz had a setback during his rehab stint.

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I’ve never seen him pitch or read a scouting report on Adenhart but his AAA pitching stats from this year are pretty dreadful: 6-10 record, 6.18 ERA, 106.1 IP, 52 BB, 82 K, 1.72 WHIP.

His numbers from AA Arkansas last year are much better: 10-8, 3.65 ERA, 153 IP, 65 BB, 116 K.

However, if you want good AA numbers, why not just gamble on Todd Redmond (who we got for Tyler Yates). At Mississippi this year (not 2007 like Adenhart), Redmond’s numbers are: 10-4, 3.33 ERA, 137.2 IP (already), 23 BB, 104 K. That walk number is nice and low — he can throw strikes!

By Jim Hertel

July 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I’m a Braves fan for too long for most to remember that far back. Through thick and thin, I’ve always pulled for them. This year’s injuries are unbelievable. As much as I feel sorry for the team for the things that have happened, if there is a silver lining, it is this: If it causes us to sell off this team, that is good. This wasn’t a team that ever jelled. It wasn’t good when we were still hoping it was. It’s time to reload for the future. I hope we have a sales bonanza.

By bravesfan08

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

from MLB.com’s Jim Molony.

Will Ohman suitors: the Marlins, Red Sox, Rays, Tigers and White Sox. Molony says the Braves aren’t highly motivated to trade Ohman, as they might want to re-sign him for ‘09. Odd.

By Taylor S

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Dob what do you know about Brandon Moss from the Red Sox? He seems like a potentialy good return for Ohman. Hes a young outfielder with some power. No real place for him in Boston. Plus hes a local kid. What do you think ?

By ellaguru

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Dave, I think it’s prudent for you to stay off your motorcycles until this whole wave of injuries passes. Dinged-up and underperforming players are one thing but without the blog for people to bloviate about it there may be some suicides. Take care of your fingers, dude.

And Lew, wow—thanks for the Alejandro portrait. I am supposedly finding out tomorrow whether I’m relocating my shop and if I do there will be a place of honor for it. Thanks again.

By nolie

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

. He’s a developing hitter, and if he were moved to a team that appreciates patience he should put up killer numbers.BFIR

might be true, but I’ve seen little indication that the Braves value plate discipline that awful much. Frenchy?Diaz? He might improve, he might not. I think he is the weakest of the 4 that were originally mentioned, but definitely stronger than Tracy who plays in an offense-oriented park thus skewing his stats. Away numbers are .270/.329/.434 nothing special.

By Doc Holliday

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

What Im about to post is not a joke………….

This division is so freakin bad and lacking of any kind of dominance from any team, that Id say that even if Braves deal:

1. TEX for a fairly good replacement at 1B or SP

2. Ohman included in trade bringing good OF or 1B

Braves can still win some games…………

TEX has not been key to this season wins braves have had………..

Ohman………well, while irreplaceable right now, he is not a whole team by himself.

We have played well without chipper lately.

Hudson has been up and down during the season.

What I mean is that this team cant be much worse than it is right now and we were sooooooo close to sweeping the phillies…………it even sounds as a joke.

Might even end up in 2nd place, LOL.

Thats how bad this division is right now.

By ppaddy123

July 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

DOB Any update on hoe McCann is feeling? When he might be back in the line up? I ask because I have suggested before that McCann needed to be moved to 1st to keep him healthy and to keep his bat in the line up everyday. I’m all for trading Tex if it makes our team better. Chad Tracy does not make this team better. TEX NEEDS TO BE TRADED FOR BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE! I can’t see where the Diamond Backs would move Conner Jackson and “weaken” their line up. Someone already suggested moving Kelly Johnson back to left field. Why not right field? The Braves need to use the rest of this year to find answers for next year. The Braves will have money to spend in the off season, but let’s face it, they have a lot of hole to fill.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun

A bit of something to those stats is the key words in your statement. A bit. He is a good first baseman, but I do not believe he has the talent of the three players you listed above. He hasn’t shown me their plate discipline/strike zone management.

Braves need a pitcher back in these talks, a good one. Not a hitter, who appears to be a pitcher(Micah Owings).

By Glen W

July 29, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the detailed update. It seems that the Braves are fortunate in this one case of timing. Isn’t it a night and day difference to know of Huddy’s potential siutation now before they make a couple of possible deals involving Tex, Ohman, etc? Doesn’t this change everything in terms of what they are looking for as a center piece in the deal? From my view, getting a 1B is far secondary to getting ML-ready starting pitching now.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the Blog DOB.

I’m not impressed with Tracy and Owing for Teixeira. Sure, the team could do worse, say accept a deal of Tony Pena Jr and cash. And the draft picks could tank… But Tracy isn’t all that great. He’s average. And Owings… I like his bat as a pitcher. Perhaps he could be converted to an outfielder one day and be solid, but I don’t want to sit around and wait to find out. Especially with Hudson staring down the knife. This team doesn’t have the time to let yet another young pitcher, “figure it out”. We already have James, Reyes, and Morton trying to figure things out along with the journeymen Carlyle and Bennett. This team needs a proven starter or a high upside young starter waiting to break onto the scene, a la Jurrjens.
So, I’ll continue to hope for something more than an average player and a struggling young pitcher.

We’re going to find out how good Wren is in the next few days…

By Hometown Hero

July 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

From Last Blog BC

If we just got Loney and no one else from LA, I’d be happy.

In fact, I’d give them Tex, pay the remainder of his salary this year, and give them KJ (to replace Kent next year), for just Loney.

Then I’d find an outfield bat with power. I’ve said no to Bay, but I’d take him. Offer Pitt Lil, BJ, Morton or Jo Jo, and other prospect,maybe Schafer, and take the deal. Why give away Lil? Because Prado will be a fine 2nd baseman, and his bat is years ahead of Lilibridges. You’d have a lineup showcasing Chipper (infante his backup), BMac, Escobar, Loney, Bay, & Prado. That’s pretty sweet. Then you use your money to extend Bay, lock up Esco, resign Hampton for like 3 mil if he stays healthy, sign a top notch starter, and a reliever or 2 (maybe Ohman).

Problems solved. Wren is right, he’s still in a position of strength.

That would be sweet. I think you forgot to mention to lock up Loney too if we got him?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Preferences for 1B in trade in this order: Jackson, Loney, Kotchman.

Most likely to happen: Kotchman.

With Kotchman, though, you may also be able to get a better pitcher or a closer-to-ML-ready pitcher than in a deal involving Loney or Jackson.

Given yesterday’s news, the Braves are hoping for quantity and quality.

By HighCheese

July 29, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

I just hope we can keep Julian Tavarez. (Insert rolling eyes here)

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

People are down on Micah Owings because his recent results haven’t been so great. But, you might compare him to some alternative 2009 Braves starters.

Jo-Jo Reyes’ major league numbers over the last two years: 5-11, 133 IP, 5.67 ERA, 1.61 WHIP.

Micah Owings’ major leagues numbers (all in the last two years): 14-17, 257 IP, 4.97 ERA, 1.32 WHIP.

Is it just that Jo-Jo hasn’t been as good as his minor league career would suggest? Well, Owings has at least as good of minor league career numbers:

Jo-Jo is 23-10 with an ERA of 3.38 in the minors; Owings is 17-3 with a 3.14 ERA (with less time in the minors).

Stats are everything but the Braves will need some starting pitching options for next year.

By Doc Holliday

July 29, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Moving KJ to RF?

We would be lucky if he is the answer to LF.

But RF??? dont think so………

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Glad the Dodgers are interested now. That should increase Arizona’s offer a bit in a 1-game race out west.

Wren’s playing it good…getting all the competition involved. The Dodgers should be favorites like Bowman said yesterday on radio here in LA. Coletti needs to save his job, the Dodgers have a lot of cash at the end of the year, Torre needs a veteran type player & not kids, and they aren’t afraid of Boras.

By Michael

July 29, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

DOB: Do you think the Braves will resign Campillo and/or Infante? Also, what kind of money would Campillo command? I doubt it would be a lot, but he has been unbelievable. Thanks for the blogs.

By Salty

July 29, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

*Micah Owings had a 2-homer, 6 RBI game against the Braves at Turner Field last year!

Besides, what’s he done this year? 6-9 with a 5.93 ERA?*

Why not? He could be the Braves’ Ankiel, with better control. Let him learn another position…clearly an athlete and a hitter. And…in those blow-out games that come along, let him pitch an inning to save a pitcher. How’s that for (way) out of the box? Then again, who’s to say he isn’t just another struggling pitcher…89 mph fastball isn’t the only determining factor.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Mike, Teixeira has only two months left on his contract. What do you expect? Again, teams don’t just trade for players; they trade for players and the players’ contracts. And teams have to give up players and those players’ contracts.

So do you seriously think the Braves should get as much for Tex when he has two months left on his contract than what they gave up when he had a year and two months left on his contract?

By Drummerdad

July 29, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

I think this deal is going to happen between the Braves and the Dodgers. I can hear it now. “Okay, Okay, we’ll give you Loney and Jason Schmidt for Tex, just please take Andruw Jones back. How about if we pay most of his salary for the rest of the season and all of next? Please?”

By Plate Appearance

July 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

THANKS

Thanks for the update and insight on all the trade and injury information DOB.

I’m glad to hear that Wren is holding out for the best deal possible, rather than simply taking the first one offered.

You’ve got to feel badly for Hudson though. I can well understand his feelings of disbelief at this news.

By Michael

July 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Also, for all the bloggers out there: I read the blog and comment a lot, but my handle isn’t exactly unique, so many probably don’t realize. However, a lot of you have great information, so I was wondering if you could give me advice on any Braves websites, especially where there is information of the farm teams. Thanks.

By Chief

July 29, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

RAR, I might agree with you if we had poor management and an empty wallet. But we’ve got a stocked minor league system, 3-4 big contracts that are about to go off the books and give the Braves more cash to spend (Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Tex), a manager who knows how to handle young talent, and a GM that’s studied under the best (and the best is hanging out nearby). We’re not going to contend this year, and we’re not going to contend next year, but we shouldn’t expect anything less than a Marlins or Arizona-style reversal.

If the Braves have failed lately, it’s because their minor-league talent hasn’t panned out like they expected (Francoeur, LaRoche, Langerhans, Davies, James, etc.) and they haven’t been willing to trade lots of minor-leaguers to get the big-money guys to fill the gaps. That’s not fun to watch, but it means that we’re only the latest youth movement away from contending again — and that’s a lot easier to manage than a Yankees-size payroll of aging veterans.

My only beef with the Braves is their inability to gauge/say no to middle-aged, low/middle-talent players (Kotsay, Norton, Infante, Ring) who have zero trade value and a limited ceiling. These guys aren’t this year’s Otis Nixon or Terry Pendleton — and it’s those diamonds in the rough that the Braves just haven’t found in a while. I’d rather bring up a young guy and see if he can play than plug in ole reliable Norton and his steady .230/12/26 annual output.

By Kevin C

July 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any chance that Bay will be moved? Also is anyone inquiring on Soriano?

Thanks

By tr

July 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

1) Shaun - Thanks!

2) Taylor S. - Re: Brandon Moss Athletic outfielder with a very strong arm. Excellent approach at the plate - good swing with a refined power and on base ability. Hits to all fields. Slightly above average speed for a right fielder. Solid in the field. Tough competitor. Fantastic teammate and individual who takes joy in playing the game. Moss possesses a good mental approach to the game, able to evaluate his mistakes while still not harping on them. Moss began a transition to becoming a part-time 1B in late 2007, and he’s handled it rather smoothly.

By j-school dropout

July 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

We need to get pitching for Tex and move Chipper to first when he’s healthy. All that matters now is getting ready for next year. If Chipper makes errors at first, who cares? We need to get ready for next year. And I would lay down a week’s pay that Chipper is our starting first baseman next year, regardless of what he says or the management says. It just makes sense. If he can play third, he can play first, and good third basemen are easier to come by than good first basemen.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Owings has had an awful year especially because he is nl west were there is only one team with good hitting and that’s the rockies which have struggled this year. So how can you have an ERA close to six in that division.

By Alan

July 29, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

If we can’t get more than full value for Tex, keep him and take the draft choices when he goes free agency. I like Ohman, but we can get a pitching prospect and maybe more for him. Anyone else can go except McCann, Escobar, Chipper and Jurrens. Norton, Ring, Boyer, Miller just need to GO! Francoeur needs to go to Richmond or Mississippi to finish the season and then come back for Sept. call up. If he can get his head straight, AND BECOME A HITTER, then he’ll be fine.

By Mr. Enigma

July 29, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

I nominate a ban for all the “First” idiots.

By Taylor S

July 29, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Tex and Kelly for James Loney is a terrible idea. James Loney isnt all that much better than KJ.

Kelly is Hitting .264 with 9 home runs and 43 RBIs, Loney is hitting .299 with 9 homers and 58 RBIS.

When you factor in Kelly is a second basemen and Loney is at first Im not even sure we should give them Kelly and Ohman. Let alone Tex and KJ.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

Perfect description of Chad Tracy and Micah Owings. An average bat(below average at first base) and a pitcher still trying to figure himself out. One that a lot of people think can be no better than a back of the rotation starter.

But of course, someone on here will poin to the fact that Owings is young and anything can happen with pitchers. I say Owings is a filler for the rotation next season. Braves make that trade and they receive nothing of impact there. Not even close to impact.

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

One broadcaster said to me last night that, if there’s anything whatsoever that could be a positive in this season gone awry, it’s that perhaps the Braves needed such a pile of bad developments to convince them not to try to band-aid this thing at the trade deadline, and instead to point toward the future

Well said.

Kinda like a bad breakup with your girlfriend. Asking God WHY WHY WHY?! Only to find out there’s a hotter, sexier, smarter, and more polite one waiting.

Just had an earthquake here in LA btw. Maybe a 6.0?

By Jeff321

July 29, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Stock up on the young bucks!

Who cares if they won’t be ready for a couple years? Nothing short of a major overhaul starting with the engine AKA Cox will do.

By Kashi

July 29, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Chad Tracy + Owings from D’Back for TEX is like giving TEX for nothing. I rather take two prime draft picks who could be a trade bits for future if we need someone to fill immediately. If we trade Tex -at least we must get 1 solid injury free player who can be an “impact” player. We have too many holes in next year. 1B,LF,CF,3B,starting pitchers, bullpen, closer and week lineup. How can we fill all these holes by next year? -IMPOSSIBLE. Get one solid player + AA player for TEX but not a garbage from other team. Else…keep Tex and take draft pick or resign TEX (25M for 2 years) and he can test free market again in years.

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

paddy123 —

You only want to trade Tex if he makes “this team” better? Do you mean the 2008 Braves? If we want the 2008 Braves to be as good as possible, we should keep Tex. The problem is that being as good as possible (given reality) means probably not going to the playoffs. Only contenders want Tex (non-contenders can buy him in the winter free agent market). Contenders will not be giving up players who are currently as good as (or better than) Tex.

This isn’t difficult: the point of the trade is to get younger players who are under contract. Note: players implies more than one — not a player as good as Tex (with the bonus of being around for a couple of years) plus someone else.

By Cecil34

July 29, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Hope our boy Mac is recovering nicely…made me absolutely sick to see him lying on the ground, basically knocked out and unable to move….

That wasn’t his first collision - and won’t be his last. And his bat is such a hot commodity, we must have it as much as possible. We cannot risk further injury to this man. McFann I am suggesting this to save him.

Good Lord, we batted Kotsay cleanup last night…..Is that what you want?

Now that the season is in the tank, we need to move him to first, and just let him learn ojt since it won’t matter whether he makes some errors.

Let Sammons catch the rest of the year and see if his bat ever comes around. The boy is 25 years old - time to hit or get off the pot. If he doesn’t hit, get another catcher over the off-season.

Catchers can learn the nuances of playing first. If Lo Duca can do it, Mac can. How many years do you think it would add to his career?

There is more than one catcher out there who can call a good game.

All of you naysayers - talk to me after he breaks an arm, or damages an ankle, and is gone for a season. No Mac, no bat.

Hush up, I know catching is hazardous - but when you have a hitter like Mac who is only getting better - to the point of being a yearly all-star - then he needs to be protected.

The concussions and injuries that the catcher suffers take their toll - believe me. Remember Ray Fosse?

By AZBravoFan

July 29, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Hey, if the Braves get Owings and resign Hampton then the days of the great hitting pitchers could be back. Then they really could drop Frenchy down to the nine slot while he tries to find his stroke. Of course they’d need all the offense they can get with Owings in there, he hasn’t exactly been lights-out as a starter this year.

By rupert

July 29, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

agree with the idea that the dbacks are bluffing right now, connor jackson is a good player, but not worth standing between a deal for tex, who would basically give them the west (that team is offensively strapped), you don’t start out with your best offer and obviously they would rather move tracey because he plays first while jackson is currently getting time in left, it would be questionable for them to lose tex because of jackson not being included, especially if he was to go to the dodgers (another offensively challenged team), best thing for the braves would be to try and drum up the dodgers interest and that might get airzona up, bottom line is the braves don’t have to trade tex for whatever the hell the dbacks want to give, for a team that gave up a ton for dan haren, one player costing them such a weapon seems funny, can’t see them explaining that to the fans or players “sorry we could have gotten the best hitter available but we ddin’t want to give up this one guy who good, not great numbes because we can control over him….you got us, were cheap”

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Maybe that quake was bigger than I thought. The server for the LA Times is down.

By P. Rose

July 29, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Smells Like Team Quit It

Load up young guns

Please, Frank Wren!

It sucks to lose and rarely win

This team is lower than a turd

(I know, I know a dirty word)

Hello, hello - HOW LOW??

Without Chipper, we’re less dangerous

Let the tool race entertain us

Ticket prices are outrageous

Let the big cow entertain us

Gregor Blanco? A mosquito!

Martin Prado? No libido! Yeah!

It’s good to get this off my chest

And for this blog I feel blessed

Our little team has always been

Contenders up until the end

Hello, hello - HOW LOW??

Without Hudson, we’re less dangerous

Let the kiss cam entertain us

Cause the beer price is outrageous

Let the cap thing entertain us

Gregor Blanco? Too petite-o!

Martin Prado? Bean Burrito! Yeah!

And I forget just why I came

A parking place is hard to find

Unless I want to walk a mile

Oh well, whatever, nevermind

Hello, hello - HOW LOW??

With Mike Hampton, we’re less dangerous

Let the tool race entertain us

And the losing is contagious

Let the big cow entertain us

Gregor Blanco? Holy sheet-o!

Martin Prado? We concede-o!

In denial! In denial! In denial!

By who cares

July 29, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

If Morton, and Reyes are in the starting rotation next year, this will be a .500 team again. When you only have a chance to win 3 out of every 5 games you play, you have no chance. These guys are AAA talent at best, along with Ring,Boyer,and Acosta. That being said, it want matter. because one of the 3 stooges will show why his name is Curly when he makes a couple of terrible trades in the next few days, and probably strips team of more young talent instead of stockpiling it like Fl. did twice. Sorry Braves fans but until the 3 stooges (Wren, Cox, and Pendleton), are gone, this team will play with the heart and fundamentals that the teams did in the 80’s. Funny how the mets got tired of playing .500 baseball, and they fire their manager, look where they are now. Braves ownership should only look to their eastern division rival to see what needs to be done for this team to succeed. Get rid of Larry, Moe,and Curly

By LivininAL

July 29, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Trade Tex and Ohman today!!!!! Before one or both are injured and out for the year!!

By Braves blow

July 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

I say trade Chipper over the winter because he always ends up hurt

By Mike

July 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun

So do you seriously think the Braves should get as much for Tex when he has two months left on his contract than what they gave up when he had a year and two months left on his contract?

They gave up Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Beau Jones, and Neftali Feliz.

All I want back in Jarrod Parker or Max Scherzer plus Chad Tracy.

From the Angels, I want Kotchman and Adenhart or Walden.

To me, Feliz is the guy that hurts. So why not get a Low A ball pitcher back like Walden or Parker.

That’s it. I think it is fair for 2 months of Tex AND 2 DRAFT PICKS.

By Brian

July 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Could Micah Owings be the answer for LF? I don’t think he’s much of a pitcher but he raked at Tulane and has been a pretty good hitting pitcher thus far. Could he be like the guy from the Cards?

I think Kelly Johnson needs to be traded. Supposedly, Wren received some high interest in him before the season and he is mediocre at best. Infante could play second and put up a lot better average than KJ and could possibly be the leadoff man we so badly need.

We are going to HAVE to get a #1 starting pitcher in FA if we don’t trade for one now. That means Sheets or Sabathia. This need will only increase if our ace (who would at best be a #2 on almost any other team) will be out at least until midseason next year with a tommyjohn surgery.

By spotts

July 29, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

DOB, you think we’ll call up Tommy Hanson to get some experience? What about Schafer?

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Chief! I was just curious. (Obviously I’m clamoring for updates or whatever, my apologies. Boy, I was mess two years ago when he had his first collision and I didn’t use the internet. Went insane waiting for updates from the TV guys!)

BravesFanInRockies (in response to your post on the last blog)—

Yes, it really showed what a good guy Bobby is. Mom taped it last night, and we watched it this afternoon. Just an excellent program! I like hearing Bobby’s story of how he came to be a manager.

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Taylor

Loney is this lineup would have 70+ RBI’s like Tex, and he’s younger. I’m sure he’s the type of ML ready bat Wren is looking for.

By ppaddy123

July 29, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday the point I’m trying to make…….the braves have questions for next year, but not many answers. These next two months are a time to experiment……ie KJ in right field. Personally, I would like to move him back to left and let Prado finish the year at second. I don’t think he ever really got a fair shot at the job after Bobby cox announced KJ would move to second.

By JB

July 29, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

For all of those out there who think that Chipper would stay healthy if he played first instead of third, please think back at his past injuries. I can only think of one that took place due to playing third base. The rest occured while running the bases. Chipper doesn’t want to play first anyways.

By gayle

July 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

…if there’s anything whatsoever that could be a positive in this season gone awry, it’s that perhaps the Braves needed such a pile of bad developments to convince them not to try to band-aid this thing at the trade deadline…

I really hope this is true. When you function in a world of denial like the Braves have these past years, you need to really get a shock to forget the band-aids and really do what is necessary.

Trading Tex or Ohlman or Frenchy are just more band-aids.

This team needs an intervention and it starts from the top.

By cabravesfan

July 29, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox- it was a 5.6

By coach k

July 29, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Now that this season is over start by flushing bobby cox and pendleton, we need someone with a little fire , not my rocking chair grandpa, keep chipper,escobar, kelly and mccann, infante and blanco, flush the rest, yes that means frenchy, I like huddy, campillo, jurgens, flush the rest. I don’t care if the entire Richmond braves come here they will be more exciting than these Braves, This team should have been in a better position than it is now and I blame management, yes we have injuries but so does everyone else and the winners seem to be able to plug in guys. This team has had no passion since they got rid of Justice, shame on you. Time to find some guys who love this game, not get paid by it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By keylargo

July 29, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOB

You left out Puhols out of your first basemen comparison. He might be the one to whom all are compared.

I think it would be good for the Braves if they could keep Tex if they could pay him inline with what those 5 you mentioned and Puhols make. But there is no way you can tear apart a teams payroll and pay one man 25% of its’ budget. We are not the Yankees with a $220 million payroll. That might be why they have the two highest paid players - they can afford them.

By Taylor S

July 29, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Guys I am all for getting Loney. He is a great player. But Loney alone for Tex and KJ is not a good return.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Mike, of all the players in the Teixeira deal the Braves gave up, you are worried about a pitcher who hasn’t even turned 21 and is barely out of A-ball? Do you know how risky pitchers are and how often they get hurt?

By Bill in TN

July 29, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

The last time I looked, the Braves had 4 minor leaguers hitting over .300 in the top 3 levels COMBINED. That, plus the failure of the young Braves to produce tells me the whole system is broken. What happened to the organization that was known to be strong, top to bottom? The philosophy of trading top prospects for past-their-prime major league talent for a 1 year run has ruined the team.

By ppaddy123

July 29, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

bgvt maybe you should read the whole post….or remove your head from..well you know where. The Braves need to get the best player they can for Tex. That means a good player and a good contract

By jmart1951

July 29, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

One move that I know everyone opposes but in my opinion is the best thing for the Braves is to move McCann to 1st base. Then we get 155 to 162 games out of him at full production. The 30 or so games a year he misses due to 5th starter, day game after a night game, bangs and bruises and injury will only shorten his career. McCann is a potentially great hitter who needs to be in the lineup everyday (healthy). McCann’s defensive skills behind the plate are only average and his throwing out base stealers is not very good. I believe that we can find a serviceable catcher that is better defensively and that can hit in the .250s

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Michael, yes I don’t see any reason Braves wouldn’t re-sign Campillo. He’s dirt-cheap, relatively speaking. Not even arb-eligible yet. He’ll get half a mill or so in 2009, probably.

And yes, I’d pencil him in the rotation for ‘09.

By Dadgum

July 29, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Micah Owings played at Georgia Tech.

By Josh

July 29, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

I hope we have some pitching prospects ready for next year, because if Huddy has to have Tommy Johns Surgery the only solid pitchers we will have are Jurrjens and Campillo, and Campillo is far from a sure thing.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Mike, you can want it, but I’d be shocked if you get any of those top pitching prospects you cited. Not unless a team gets absolutely desperate to land Tex and prevent a division rival from landing him.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Wow. Lots of ill feelings on here towards a 26-year-old who’s hit .264/.354/.432 in three seasons in the majors and .281/.366/.464 in parts of seven seasons in the minors. To me, that looks like a pretty good player.

By RC

July 29, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

How about we trade Tex for the best offer, whatever that turns out to be. Then, spend all this “extra” money we should have in the offseason to make a VERY competitive offer to Tex as a free agent, for something like 5-years at $20 per? That might not get it done, but it’s worth the gamble. Plus, if the Braves finish as low as it appears they will this year our first round pick won’t be sacrificed by the signing, we’d have to give up our 2nd round pick instead.

By BA

July 29, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Nice tune, DOB!

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

keylargo, yes, Pujols was an inadvertent omission. I just went back in and added it.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 29, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

First?

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Whomever the Braves may get in a Tex trade, consider the Braves trading Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Beau Jones, and Feliz for those players (and the sandwich pick for Mahay??). If Ohman goes, then add Ascanio into the mix (though the Braves still have Infante).

Getting interesting.

Hope all is okay in CA.

Geaux Braves!!

By Doc Holliday

July 29, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

We are going to HAVE to get a #1 starting pitcher in FA if we don’t trade for one now. That means Sheets or Sabathia. This need will only increase if our ace (who would at best be a #2 on almost any other team) will be out at least until midseason next year with a tommyjohn surgery. Brian

Id say half the teams,……..thats not almost any other team.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Mike, of all the players in the Teixeira deal the Braves gave up, you are worried about a pitcher who hasn’t even turned 21 and is barely out of A-ball? Do you know how risky pitchers are and how often they get hurt?

I understand how risky pitchers that age are, but you can’t ignore them and not try to trade for them or try to keep them. Even the Braves felt that Feliz was the one prospect that could come back and haunt them. DOB has said this.

Let me guess, you would trade a 18 year old like Columbian kid straight up for a guy like Owings because Owings is a somewhat established major league pitcher. Come on man.

Anyway, you still didn’t really respond to what I brought up earlier. I don’t want 5 prospects back for Tex. I want one pitcher, a prospect at that, and Kotchman or Tracy, obviously depending on what team they deal with. That fair enough? Is that too much for 2 draft picks and 2 months of Tex? Nope. I don’t think it is. Will Arizona or LA want to give up a “pitcher who hasn’t even hit the age of 21” yet?

Well, according to you, so many of them get hurt, so they should just be a throw in.

By Salty

July 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Micah Owings played at Georgia Tech. …and finished at Tulane, I believe.

By Jack G

July 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Make any favorable trade you can dream up——-still wont make a bit of difference as long as Bobby—-Terry—-and Mc are on board. They screw up the field so badly no one can play a decent game. But as long as management is screwed up in their devotion to Bobby and his crew, you might as well forget the Braves. I for one dont intend to support them until wholesale changes are made.

I know , I know the players and his peers all sweet talk and tell you how great Bobby and his crew are but that is just BS. How often will the baseball fraternity critize on another——answer——NEVER.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, he played two years at Georgia Tech (2003-2004) then transfered to Tulane (2005).

By s1c2s4t4

July 29, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

MAYBE THE LA EARTHQUAKE WAS REALLY ANDRUW FALLING OFF THE DODGERS BENCH

By Jeff

July 29, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

At least Owings could be a better pinch hitting option than Corky.

By bulldogbubba

July 29, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

could we bring Julio out of retirement for a third time? He at least carries a big bat and was a pretty good defensive player and a great leader in a clubhouse. maybe even a good HITTING INSTRUCTER.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Would the braves consider movin mac to first if they don’t include a first baseman in the mark texeira deal. Mac is such a great hitter than they can’t afford to give him too many day’s off, and being a catcher is no easy task, you get hit hard be foul balls, bats, and collision like the one we witnesed the other day in philly.

If they can get a catcher like jesus montero from the yankees, or bobby wilson from the angels.

By keylargo

July 29, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

DOB

At least you spelled Pujols right. More than I accomplished.

By joe

July 29, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Trade Tex for whatever you can get, cut Corky for gosh sakes and get a real backup catcher. Let Norton handle 1B for the rest of the year to see what he can do. Rest the top pitchers or leave them on DL for next year as this one is GONE. Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton do not need to pitch again this year at all. Those 4 and JJ would be a great rotation next year, and Gonzo, Soriano and Moylan in the bullpen would be a great staff…

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123

2007 Spring Training

Prado: .354/.407/.479 (sent to AAA - led team deep into IL playoffs)

KJ: .254/.347/.413

2008 Spring Training

Prado: .342/.407/.452 (backup)

KJ: .226/.305/..264

Fielding:

2007 Prado: .995 fielding % in 87 games in AAA

2007 KJ: .978 fielding % (near last for MLB 2nd baseman) 2008 KJ: .977

I’d say Prado never got a fair shot either.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

Mike, you can want it, but I’d be shocked if you get any of those top pitching prospects you cited. Not unless a team gets absolutely desperate to land Tex and prevent a division rival from landing him.

I understand that. I really thought we would be able to get half of what we gave up for Tex, especially if we added Ohman. It doesn’t seem like that is possible.

But really, Casey Kotchman? Impending free agent Juan Rivera? It just really suprises me that no one is willing to offer a bit more than that in terms of prospects, especially with a reported 4-6 teams involved.

Maybe Wren works some magic.

By Walter

July 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Is this your homework Larry?

Is this your homework?

Is this your homework Larry?

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Cecil34 All of you naysayers - talk to me after he breaks an arm, or damages an ankle, and is gone for a season.

Please don’t say things like that!!

Salty—

Hmm…If Micah could play the outfield, that be sweet. Maybe playing everyday would boost those power numbers! (“Yeah right,” right? But I’m just sayin’…)

Cecil34—

I know you’re saying the move would save his career, but gee…Johnny Bench played for 17 seasons! (2,193 games…1,741 as a catcher) His numbers decreased, but most players’ do when they’re reaching the end.

I just don’t see them moving him to first…but I’ve been wrong about almost everything this season, so heck! I guess it’s possible…But I don’t see it…

By Robin

July 29, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

My head hurts from all this “trade speculation.” Lets just get on with it.

waits impatiently for breaking news

By Mike

July 29, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

By the way, how in the world did Cleveland get Matt Laporta back for Sabathia?

Especially considering Laporta is a hitter and isn’t as risky as a pitcher. He is much more of a sure thing. I understand Sabathia is a dominant pitcher, but again, one elite prospect is needed here in these Tex talks.

I am guessing that they Braves wanting Kotchman is making Tony Reaggins refuse to part with Adenhart of Walden then.

Can’t we just sign a Kevin Millar type hitter as a stop gap next year? Just a season? With Huddy out, I don’t think they are contending anyway.

By His dudeness

July 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

These deadline trades are always complicated…a lot of ins and outs, a lot of what have yous.

By coach k

July 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I DID FORGET ONE GUY i LIKE PRADO, HE CAN STAY, AND i LIKE THE MOVE SOMEONE SUGGESTED MCCANN TO FIRST SINCE HE DOES HAVE LITTLE TROUBLE THROWING GUYS OUT.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Mike, I don’t know if I’d trade an 18-year-old for Micah Owings. Possibly, if I thought just halfway decent innings would get me to the playoffs. Depends on how talented the 18-year-old is.

But I wouldn’t hesitate to give up an 18-year-old pitcher for a year and a couple of months of a player like Teixeira, if I thought he would significantly increase my team’s chances to make the playoffs and I felt I was very close. Which is why I’m not too concerned about Feliz.

Anyway, I think this is getting way off topic.

I do think the Braves will get probably a firstbaseman and a decent pitching prospect. Maybe not a top pitching prospect, but a decent one.

I don’t think a team will give up a top prospect of any kind for two months of Tex. I think this is the main issue of our disagreement. You think a team should give up that much.

If the Braves were still in it, would you want them to give up their top prospect for two months of a fairly young, very good Boras client if they already had a decent player at that position?

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Okay, ppaddy123 — I read your whole post. I expect we agree with each other more than we disagree about trading Tex. The statement in bold is key — trade Tex for the best player we can get. I’m still not sure what you would suggest doing if the best player we can get doesn’t make the team better (which team? when?). Maybe your reference to Chad Tracy is that he isn’t better than the two draft picks we would get (though I don’t think anyone is suggesting Tracy-for-Tex as a straight up deal).

On your other two suggestions, I disagree. It is not clear that McCann would be very good defensively at first base. I’m not sure how agile he is. (Think about the big cat, Andres Galaragga.) McCann is a catcher. He isn’t great at throwing out runners but has a much better than average understanding of his pitching staff. He calls a very good game. He should stay a catcher for several more years — even if he sits every fifth game.

I can see putting KJ back in left field — though I don’t think it is a great idea since his power numbers aren’t what the team really needs from a corner outfielder. I don’t like your of trying KJ in RF since I’m not sure that he has the arm (or power #’s) for RF. KJ’s .423 SLG percentage is pretty good for 2B but it ain’t much for a corner outfielder (unless he had gold glove defense and/or lead-off batter speed).

The solution in RF is either 2008 turns out to be a big bump in the road for JF or go outside the organization (unless you want to wait for Heyward). There is some chance that 2008 is a fluke for Francoeur — see Pat Burrell’s year-to-year stats for an example of a player who had a bad year early in his career.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

If Ohman goes, then add Ascanio into the mix (though the Braves still have Infante).geauxbraves

Well, that’s certainly the first time since opening day that I’ve heard ANYONE even hint that the Braves didn’t get the better of the Ascanio for Ohman & Infante deal. Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding me?

The way that some people judge trades, with so much depending on whether the team gets to the playoffs or whatever, is just patently wrong.

Ohman has been outstanding for the Braves, done everything he could do to help them win. Infante has been very solid since getting over his winter-ball injury (he was hurt after the trade).

Ascanio? Ascanio has a 4.23 ERA in 28 appearances Triple-A and a 7.94 ERA in six games for Chicago.

Gimme a break.

By Bobby's Cox

July 29, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Wow. Lots of ill feelings on here towards a 26-year-old who’s hit .264/.354/.432 in three seasons in the majors and .281/.366/.464 in parts of seven seasons in the minors. To me, that looks like a pretty good player.

Shaun, Do you think it’s a chemistry issue with the Braves? I do. When Prado starts the braves score like 7.14 runs per game, 3 more runs per game than when KJ starts. Maybe its a small sample size, but when I watch, I see the lineup flow more with Prado starting. I still don’t think Prado ever got a fair shot. .978 Fielding % last year and .977 this year isn’t cutting it at 2nd, especially when Prado’s hitting over .300 in his starts, .408 with RISP, and is hitting for extra bases every chance he gets. Plus he’s a RH bat in an overly LH hitting lineup. KJ is the 4th most expendable guy on the team IMO, behind Tex, Ohman, and Kotsay, especially with the depth at his position.

By You see...

July 29, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

You see what happens Larry!? This is what happens Larry!

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Manny Ramirez Rumors: Tuesday By Tim Dierkes [July 29 at 2:36pm CST]

2:36pm: Joel Sherman of the New York Post has the Dodgers in the lead for Manny. The Red Sox would eat most or all of the $7MM remaining on Ramirez’s deal, and then receive a player like Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier. Such a deal would enable the Sox to enter the Mark Teixeira bidding.

I say we try a 3 way trade with the Redsox and Dodgers… Dodgers get Manny, Red Sox get Tex and Ohman, we get Youk and Kemp/Either… I’d be tickled pink with that… Ok I’ll stop dreaming now

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

McFann

Javy played atleast 10 years of good baseball…so I think Mac’ll be okay….whatever he and DeRo did this offseason is keeping his stamina up…maybe Frenchy should try that…and also did Frenchy admit that before last season he watched tapes of Mac? Safe to say he didn’t do that this year. :)

By Jack G

July 29, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

WHY DO WE BOTHER

I dont know why we bother to tell it like it is—Braves management dont read these Blogs.—-and if they do they dont care what we say, they are going to keep on doing (or not doing)anything to solve the problems.

Ignoring the fans and their input is——STUPID

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Mike, if the Braves were still in it, they had the opportunity to get an upgrade that they know is going to command a huge contract in a couple of months, and they already have a halfway decent player at that same position, would you want them to give up a top prospect for that guy?

That’s what we’re dealing with here. All the contenders have at least halfway decent firstbasemen/DHs already. Sure, some would love to upgrade but they know they are getting a guy for two months or for two months then a huge contract, if they keep him.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Well NPR blasted it as a 5.8. Bloomberg reports a 5.4. I’m sitting in Costa Mesa about 25 miles from the epicenter up in a high rise. Felt like a lot more when your office is in a tuning fork.

Hopefully that put a jolt in the LA GM’s to deal now as if the world is coming to an end.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Shaun

If the Braves were still in it, would you want them to give up their top prospect for two months of a fairly young, very good Boras client if they already had a decent player at that position?

Yes, because that Boras client would bolt and give us two draft picks. The Brewers will be getting two draft picks for Sabathia. Yes, the Brewers got a pitcher for the playoff run, a potentially dominant one, and gave up a great prospect in Matt Larporta. How did Cleveland get them to do this? The Brewers arenpt signing him long term, not with a 70 million dollar payroll.

I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, but I think the Braves are going after the wrong thing here. A first baseman shouldn’t be the target. A high upside pitching prospect should be. If no team is willing to give that up, then keep the draft picks and stock the farm.

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Jose Guillen Wants To Be Traded By Tim Dierkes [July 29 at 2:50pm CST]

According to ESPN’s Enrique Rojas, Royals outfielder Jose Guillen is unhappy in Kansas City and wants out. He is reportedly not on speaking terms with manager Trey Hillman. He also doesn’t think the Royals are doing enough for build a contender for 2009-10.

Guillen would even defer some of the $24MM owed to him for 2009-10, if it would increase the chances of a trade. He is hitting .260/.287/.446 in 408 plate appearances, which is actually pretty bad. 29 left fielders have been more productive this year, including Willie Harris.

ESPN’s Jayson Stark wrote on Thursday that the Braves asked about Guillen but the Royals wanted a cornerstone-type player like Gorkys Hernandez in return.

By BravesLover

July 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Still can’t see the Braves putting a minor league team on the field and expecting the public to pay major league prices. Attendance goes down, revenue goes down, and we don’t have enough money to go after players to bring us back up to elite status. Losing Tex and Ohman for second tier players will set this franchise back for years.

By MDBraveFan

July 29, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DOB - Cassandra Wilson’s version of Tupelo Honey is nice; on “Blue Light ‘Til Dawn” album. mmp

By TheCutMan

July 29, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

So everyone is in a lather to churn and burn? Okay. I think all us Braves’ fans need to look at the larger picture.

And that is, this team won’t be in the hunt again, probably, until the 2010 season. Look at the personnel roster, the on-field management and the liklihood of excellence through those lens.

I’m a lone voice (or so it seems) calling from the wilderness extolling the Braves to hold onto their young talent, open negotiations with Teix and his agent NOW, keep what’s been working, get rid of what hasn’t been, and look to 2010.

One more thing? I’m out.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Mike, how in the world did Cleveland get LaPorta?

Well, first Sabathia is a pitcher. He wasn’t a guy at a position where the Brewers had a good player.

Second, LaPorta plays leftfield or firstbase. The Brewers already have two of the most talented players in baseball under 25 at those positions.

So the situation is completely different than them trading a guy for an upgrade at a position they weren’t really all that desperate to fill.

By Kenneth Simpson

July 29, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

The braves have no decent pitchers in their farm system because of the stupid trades they made in the past few years and gave the farm away for Tex and 2 good starting pitchers to rent JD Drew for one year. Both of the trades were about as stupid as they could get. When you finish in first place all those years like they did and not being able to draft good players and the ones you do draft you give them away in lopsided trades. It is a pitiful situation and they don’t deserve to win. I hope they finish in last place and maybe, just maybe the upper management will look at what has happened in prior years and wise up in the future. Go ahead and try to get something for Tex because next year he will be playing for the Yankees or Mets.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

bgvt—

Agreed! McCann is a catcher!!

He isn’t great at throwing out runners but has a much better than average understanding of his pitching staff. He calls a very good game.

Oh so very very true!

By ManOfTeal

July 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

All I can say is….the Braves…..LOL…….Go Marlins!!!!

By Randy

July 29, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this because I love him but I believe it is also time to trade Chipper.This team will be rebuilding with prospects for 2-3 years and we need to get something for Chipper while we can,and we could probably still get a good package for him now.Surely there are AL teams who would love to have a 3B/DH for this year and next.He might bring a bigger return than even Tex.Trade Tex,Chipper,Ohman,maybe even Gonzalez for a load of young prospects and begin the rebuild.If Tex is gone and Hudson is out next year,keeping Chipper when he is 37 and has value,is silly

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

ESPN’s Jayson Stark wrote on Thursday that the Braves asked about Guillen but the Royals wanted a cornerstone-type player like Gorkys Hernandez in return.*

but since he’s got a little injury and is causing trouble wouldn’t they take 2 other players to get rid of him?

By fastasballs

July 29, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Seems like a few more teams are getting in on the Tex rumors. If Arizona really wants Tex they are going to up the offer for him with the Dodgers & Yankees involved. With Posada gone for the year they will be looking for offense.

I like that Wren is holding out until the last minute, his patience will be rewarded.

I’m hoping for Conner Jackson in the deal for Tex. He’s going to be an elite player & can play 1st or the outfield. He has more walks than strikeouts. Good all around #’s & he’s still improving.

This is Wren’s time to shine & put his stamp on this team for years to come. Let’s see what he can do.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun

That’s what we’re dealing with here. All the contenders have at least halfway decent firstbasemen/DHs already. Sure, some would love to upgrade but they know they are getting a guy for two months or for two months then a huge contract, if they keep him.

No team is signing him if they trade for him. Where did you read that? Why not just take the draft picks? Especially if you are a team like the D-Backs or Rays. I’m not even sure if the Angels want to meet Boras’s demands. Hence the draft picks that Tex will give you when he signs elsewhere.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

McFann,

You don’t want your best young hitter to be playing a position where he needs 20-30 games off a season. McCann should still be a catcher, but he shouldn’t be playing there as much as he is now. The Braves have to get a good, veteran catcher (Varitek is old, but he’d be perfect for a team that needs leadership) to take on more of a load next year.

In the meantime, McCann should get some games at first base this year to acclimate him to the position. It will keep his head from getting knocked in and allow the Braves to see if he cann (ugh) be adequate over there. There’s nothing wrong with looking out for a long-term investment that is better offensively than defensively.

By Lew

July 29, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

J-School Dropout-How is Chipper going to play first? If he has to stretch for a ball, he may fall down with a torn hamstring and never get up again.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

As the Braves consider offers on a possible deal for first baseman Mark Teixeira, they’re faced with the real possibility that the injury to Tim Hudson’s pitching elbow is significant. According to sources, the early indications from teams in talks about Teixeira are that the Braves are asking for some form of pitching in return.
—Buster Olney

Excellent!

By Mike

July 29, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun

So the situation is completely different than them trading a guy for an upgrade at a position they weren’t really all that desperate to fill.

Then why are we dealing with teams that could care less. Looks like they have the bargaining power, right? Of course, DOB suggested that Frank Wren has the bargaining power. And Frank Wren thinks so too.

If there is no desperation at all from other teams in trade discussions, then maybe we really should just keep the guy and take the picks at the end of the season.

By JB

July 29, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

BravesLover

If the Braves attendance does go down dramatically these last 2 months, you could also make the argument that it sends a message to Liberty Media a quality team needs to be fielded in order to make a profit, which would enspire them to spend some money this offseason to get the Braves to be competitive again.

By Mitch

July 29, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

I hope that Wren does the right thing and trades Tex in the next 48 hours. We are never going to re sign him. The idea of using Mike Hampton’s 15 mil that will be freed up to go after Tex is intriguing, but I highly doubt the Braves can afford him anyway. Trade Tex and move on.

I believe Smoltz will be back. As for others, I’m hopeful that maybe Glavine can pitch one more year. Yes, he’ll be 43, but the guy can still pitch when healthy. For another 8-9 mil, especially if Smoltz is gone until July 2009, and if heaven forbid Huddy needs Tommy John surgery, and is out all or most of 09, it’s a gamble Wren should take.

I keep hearing conflicting reports on Tex.  Some sources say he is history in 48 hrs or less, while others say the Braves are asking too much for a guy who will probably leave whatever team he's traded to after this season, and that teams would rather let him finish the season with the Braves, and get him after the season for nothing but a loss of draft picks.  

Tex will probably end up with either the Yankees, or maybe Baltimore.  The Mets would be intriguing too.  Delgado is getting up there in years, and could easily be traded to hte American League to be a DH.  With new stadiums next year, and an influx of cash from them, both the Yankees and the Metropolitans have the cash to afford Tex and his 20 mil salary.

A few days ago, I’d say I would have been shocked to still see Tex as a Brave on Thursday at 4pm. Now, I dont know. Teams may not bite to trade away prospects, if they can get him after the season for a couple of draft picks.

 Mitch

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Buster Olney:

As the Braves consider offers on a possible deal for first baseman Mark Teixeira, they’re faced with the real possibility that the injury to Tim Hudson’s pitching elbow is significant. According to sources, the early indications from teams in talks about Teixeira are that the Braves are asking for some form of pitching in return.

Seems like the Braves are incredibly vulnerable right now and are just going to look for stop gaps in 2009. Chad Tracy and Micah Owings fit the bill.

Braves fans should be really happy and blessed that the D-Backs would even give them such a package. Especially considering all they are getting back is a player who will be with them for 2 months…..and 2 draft choices, maybe 24(Yankees selection) and 31(first supp. pick).

Chad Tracy and Micah Owings are winning ball players that will lead this team to the World Series in 2010……Mark it down………

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Rotoworld predicts Teixeira will stay put in Atlanta due to weak trade proposals and no contenders need for a first baseman…Trade listing:

To Diamondbacks for RHP Micah Owings, OF Gerardo Parra and RHP Barry Enright
To Red Sox for RHP Michael Bowden, OF Brandon Moss and RHP Daniel Bard

By Bubdylan

July 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

P. Rose, crackin’ me UP!

By Kevin in Chattanooga

July 29, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

DAVID O’BRIEN

Any chance the Braves would consider offers for Chipper? He is aging, at the top of his game presumably. He would be able to bring in a bevy of prospects, especially since having a 3rd baseman with his hitting prowess is somewhat rare. What do you think? I know he’s an ikon but he’s hitting his upper 30s and his health is declining. What are you hearing on Kotsay? Could he be a throw-in?

Your thoughts?

By Kentavo

July 29, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Varitek makes mega millions and is BoSox’s captain. Do a little research before you post.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

bravos2249—

I agree. I mean, all catchers get banged up—and they know that’s a risk they take, but someone’s got to do it.

His off-season program does seem to be paying off. He said he believed it would help him to not feel as much fatigue in his hips during the latter part of the season as he had for the past two years.

Yeah, I’m guessing Francoeur didn’t watch the tapes this year. ; )

Chop Chop—

I know what you mean…I see EVERYbody’s point about this, but…I don’t know if he would work as a first baseman.

I don’t know…maybe he could play like…10 games a year there…

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

How about we shift the focus to a major league ready pitcher over a major league first baseman?

How about Nick Green straight up for Mark Teixiera?

Or Billy Buckner straight up for Mark Teixeira?

Maybe the D-Backs or Angels could bless us with such an arm for a player and two draft choices?!?!?!?!

By Cecil34

July 29, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

McFann

Would you be less of a Mac fann if he played first? Of course you wouldn’t…

I know you love him as a catcher, and I agree he is a darn good one, but I want to see him around 15 years.

Oh, and you know ol’ Johnny played first too! Makes sense. Great talent rises to the challenge….

By keylargo

July 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

I think some of you people so sure that we will not get a couple of good nearly ready or ready MLB players are forgetting that we are trading Tex AND the two high draft picks.

Say we trade Tex to the Angels and he walks. The Angels get the picks from whoever signs him. So they are getting a two month rental, two high draft picks and the chance to negotiate with Boras exclusively for two months.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

McFann

his ankle doesn’t seem to be an issue either…with thos 3 stolen bases, a triple (should be 2), running 1st to 3rd, and tagging up….I’d say he’s Stepping Up big time…though the numbers are expected :)

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

The waiting is the hardest part!

A couple of points:

Tex Get the best deal that can be had, and worry about filling in the holes this winter. I like the 4 firstbasemen being discussed, but I have my doubts any of them will be offered, unless we sweeten the pot. I also like Chad Tracy better than most on the blog. He is probably on a par with someone like KJ. Also, Micah Owings (Boras or no Boras) is a hechuva outfielder/firstbaseman who happens to also pitch. Dude has 25 HR potential! Also, he has pitched 2 decent half seasons, and really sucked otherwise. Youth?? He might be a decent back of the rotation arm, with some assistance from McDowell.

McCann (why do my fingers want to spell McFann instead of McCann???) Not saying the Braves should do it, but I bet there have been discussions in the past two days as to whether he could handle first base. Someone with more time than me can spit out all the numbers of catchers who have missed significant time due to collisions or knee problems behind the dish. Dude is a hitting machine. If we could increase his utility by moving him to first, it might be worth an experiment.

Other Firstbasemen

Doug (eyechart) Mientkiewicz, Kevin Millar, Dan Johnson, Rich Aurilia, Sean Casey. We don’t have to get a first sacker in the Tex deal.

The waiting is the hardest part!

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Looks like we can center a deal arond Micah Owings.

Is he going to play the field or pitch for us?

Let’s convert him into a left fielder.

It makes perfect sense.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Cecil34—

Of course I’d still be a McCann fann if he moved to first! And I’d love it if he could play more, but I don’t see them moving him to first.

I’d love to see him around for 15 years—especially with the Braves…but…but…

Yeah, towards the end there (and somewhere in the middle) Johnny Bench played some games at first (some third, too…a couple in the outfield…). But he was a little bit faster, right? (Course, 3BMac has 6 SB in his career now…)

Besides, the pitchers love to throw to McCann!

By LivininAL

July 29, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

To break from the upcoming departure- would anyone re-sign Hampton for next year? If so, what would be your top offer?.

By RC

July 29, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Kevin,

Braves will not trade Chipper. As a 10 and 5 player (10 years in league, 5 with same team) he can veto any trade, and probably would. Also, I think there is a rule against teams trading players who are on the disabled list, which Chipper is. Plus, he’s worth more to ATL than he would be to anyone else. He’s the most untradable player on the team I’d say.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

How can you guys say the team that gets Tex are getting him AND two draft picks? It would be Tex OR Tex for two months and two draft picks. If they signed him, they wouldn’t get the picks.

By Lauren T.

July 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Mac’s too young to consider moving him to 1B. He’s only 24, and I can’t imagine the organization would consider moving him unless they had no choice.

By skip

July 29, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

“Varitek makes mega millions and is BoSox’s captain. Do a little research before you post.”

Um Varitek’s contract is over this year, he may be the captain but offensively he could not be worse and his defense is not enough to pay him the millions he will be seekin (Boras client). The Sox have shown they are willing to cut ties with aging veterans rather than break the bank. I’m sure they would love to keep him but if another team swoops in a much bigger money/much longer term contract, the Sox would let him go, and I’m sure Jason would take the money and run. The original poster wasn’t that far off the mark.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

He’s the most untradable player on the team I’d say.

Well, he and Mike Hampton but for entirely different reasons.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

John Heyman:

The Diamondbacks, Rays and Angels appear to be the most enthusiastic players in the Mark Teixeira Sweepstakes. Atlanta has said it doesn’t absolutely have to have a first baseman in exchange, but they’d get one back from Arizona (Chad Tracy) and probably also from Tampa Bay (Carlos Pena). But the big question now is whether the Angels will trade their first baseman, Casey Kotchman. The Angels have always been relucant to deal their young players, but there are differeing reports about whether they’d surrender Kotchman. One Angels person just characterized their chances for a deal as “remote” now, so perhaps they wouldn’t. If not, Arizona, which has been shown to be a deal-maker, may wind up with Teixeira.

Carlos Pena? No thanks.

How about for just Chad Tracy? Would everyone do that? I mean, I think that is better than two draft picks that have very little shot of making it ot the majors.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Kentavo,

Varitek is a free agent and will be 37 years old next year. The man is hitting .218 in the walk year of a 4-year, $40 million deal. He’s probably looking at $4-$5 million a year on the open market, if that. Boston might pay him more to stay, but Theo Epstein doesn’t seem like the type of guy who is so sentimental that he feels obligated to sign ‘Tek to a two-year “Farewell to the Captain” tour worth $8-10 million.

P.S.: The Red Sox have leaders on their team. They can overcome the departure of Jason Varitek.

P.P.S: One thing I left out up there is that Tek is a Boras client. However, I have no doubt that Tek will be making the decision on what contract he accepts. Boras knows that he’ll get his big money off the Tex deal. Boras also knows that 37-year-old catchers (well, other than the Yankees paying 52.5 million over four years for a 36-year-old Jorge Posada!) are not going to get the big bucks.

So…Tek would be affordable for the Braves, but I don’t think he will end up in Atlanta or anything. For one thing, he’d like to retire in Boston. Another thing is that he would like to know that his team is going to have a shot at the World Series. The Braves can’t give him either of those things.

By RC

July 29, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Here are the two scenarios involving Mac:

Scenario A C- McCann 1b - replacement (no worse than Thorman)

Scenario B 1b - McCann C - replacement (no worse than…Corky?)

It is MUCH easier (and cheaper) to find a decent hitting first baseman than C. Based on what’s best for the team, it makes way more sense for Mac to catch. There is a higher risk of injury, but that is going to be the case for whoever catches. And it’s probably better career-wise for him to catch, since with his bat he has a real chance at becoming a Hall of Fame catcher if he can avoid injury…he would NOT be a Hall of Fame 1b.

By Braves20

July 29, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Know that rumors are five cents a dozen this week but one that has popped up on a few sites that is disturbing is Mike Gonzalez.

Let’s see - he last blew a save when Bill Clinton was president. Moving him would not only raise the white flag for this year but next year as well.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 29, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

LivininAL,

The only way the Braves keep Hampton next year is if he agrees to play for free - and while he does owe us for all the money he has stolen that ain’t gonna happen. Hampton days as a Braves are done after this year and good riddens!

By Jake

July 29, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

DOB

Considering what the Braves can do at the trade deadline and the money they will have free this offseason, how do you think they will approach the 2009 season? Will they still see it as rebuilding or will they go out and try to get one of the big free agents. I mean we still have a pretty good nucleus of players in Escobar, McCann, Chipper, and either Prado or Johnson. We could have a pretty good bullpen with a healthy Soriano, Gonzalez, and whenever Moylan returns. Obviously with Hudson’s injury it hurts us, but we still have a pretty good young nucleus with Jurrjens and Campillo. Maybe Smoltz or Glavine. I don’t know which one has the better chance of returning.

By keylargo

July 29, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

I didn’t imply that the new team would get both even if they signed Tex. I think it was clear that you get Tex and if he walks then you get the draft picks.

In other words, you get exactly what the Braves would. So why should the Braves expect only compensation to be in the “two draft picks” range?

By the Donger

July 29, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Yo Hometown Hero:

For Jason Bay, you said, “Offer Pittsburgh Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, Morton or Jo Jo, and another prospect, maybe Schafer, and take the deal.” — You sir, are a moron. WTF is Jason Bay gonna do? He looks comical against lefties.. but go ahead and give up our best young players to get him. That’ll work…dipsh*t!!

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

skip,

I didn’t explain myself, you see. A single comment like that sets off alarms in some people’s minds that ol’ Chop Chop might not know what he’s talking about.

Anyway, thanks for the backup there.

By Doc Holliday

July 29, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

If Braves cant trade TEX ……………because of lack of good offers…………..all that it would mean is that our “luck” is still at its best…………it sukz

By Patrick

July 29, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I’d rather get one draft pick than have to watch Chad Tracy

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Just for Chad Tracy? No. Wren would have a hard time showing his face at Turner Field if that’s all he got for Tex.

By brian

July 29, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why many are giving Wren a hard time about not already trading Teixeira and Ohman. Wren will trade them when he feels that he has an acceptible offer. He cannot make a trade happen by saying I will take x,y,and z players from your team and give you Tex. If there are no good trade offers I hope he keeps them and uses the draft picks wisely. The Braves are under no obligation to trade them to contenders. It also is foolish to trade them just to trade them.

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Kevin in Chattanooga you said I know he’s an ikon but he’s hitting his upper 30s and his health is declining Tell me, would you make that trade if you were on the other end after making that statement?

By rammerjammer

July 29, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

I dunno…there’s something really sad about all this. It’s kinda like having to sell your big house for a smaller one because you’re out of money.

I suppose there’s some enthusiasm about the new house, but the old one had lots of good memories. The new one is just…small.

(Sigh)

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

It’s hard to keep up this end of the argument…Except to keep saying I don’t see them moving him.

Maybe it’s worth a shot! What the heck do I know? But how well would he handle the infield? Maybe a couple games a year at first…but I don’t know about all the time…

It’s not that I’m against the idea entirely…I mean, I’d love it if he could play more, and I’d love it if they could “keep him healthy”—for lack of a better way to word it—but…he’s a catcher…

I’m all for a longer career, don’t get me wrong—Long play McCann!

But like Lauren said, he’s still young.

This year he’s been hit with foul balls and swinging bats, and his numbers are still up…Of course, now he’s got the concussion, but that was a freak thing, not gonna happen every year—though it may linger this year…I pray it doesn’t pull a Ryan Church. (I keep picturing his first game back, and a batter fouls one off his mask…)

Wayne—

Maybe they wanted to spell my name because I’m the one being a pain about the situation…

RC—

Hmm…good point. But isn’t it a little early to be talking HOF?

By geauxbraves2000

July 29, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

DOB - you misundertstood, I wasn’t saying it was a bad trade, I was just naming names, that’s all. (A lot of prospects were given up for Tex, but I’d do it again if the Braves were in the same position last year) The Ohman/Infante trade was a steal for the Braves. I was just mentioning who the Braves have given up for whomever they trade Tex for and possibly Ohman.

What I’m trying to say is, I like to see who trades turn into, ie, Marte turned into JJJ, etc.

Salty turns into (fill in the blank)

Geaux Braves!!

By skip

July 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop No problem, you and I are definitely of the mind set that the Sox would love for Tek to stay but at a reasonable rate. I differ from you though in that I think Jason, in what will probably be his last major league contract, will want the $$, he already has two rings so I cannot imagine that be will leave a bunch of money on the table for one more. Plus he lives in GA in the offseason, I could totally see him finishing his career as a Brave. But as with everything, we shall see.

By Ed Glennon

July 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

I was going to comment on all the injuries but I just strained my pectoral muscle and my groin has been tired all week. If I knew what my quad muscle was I think that is sore too.

By varoadrunner

July 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

One thing’s for sure - We’re going to see if our GM has the barungas needed to be a MLB GM.

I pray he does…..

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

bravos2249 (sorry to leave you off the last one, I got carried away)—

Yeah, the ankle seems to be holding up nicely. That bone spur hasn’t been a problem. I’m sure it still hurts once in a blue moon, but apparently it’s not that bad. He’s been better at running the bases this year than I cann remember from the last two years.

By G-man

July 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

How about Lilibridge or Prado for Maddux? Maddux can help eat up some innings next year with Huddy out. We seem to be good with middle infielders.

By Jason

July 29, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Build the deal around Chad Tracy.

I keep seeing that everywhere I look.

Is that what the Atlanta Braves have become? Building the deal around the likes of Chad Tracy.

Well, at least we have found our clean up hitter for 2009.

Chad Tracy.

Maybe if we are lucky our opening day starter will be Micah Owings!!!!

By Mike

July 29, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Just for Chad Tracy? No. Wren would have a hard time showing his face at Turner Field if that’s all he got for Tex.

But that will probably be all we get for him…..

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, you burning up the phone lines for the latest updates?

By varoadrunner

July 29, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Kevin in Chattanooga

I feel like I’m back and we’re discussing trading Dale Murphy. I’d guess that it’d freeze over before that happened.

Not a terrible idea if you get the right reward, altho, he’s about the only thing to watch this year.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

If the Red Sox could trade Manny, and get into the running for Tex, I’d like to ask for Lars Anderson in any trade talks. Considering the Red Sox don’t really need Anderson, I’d say it would be a great trade for the Braves.

Let’s hope the Red Sox ship out Manny, although it is highly unlikely.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Braves have already stated they wouldn’t trade GONZO…that’s all just talk

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

The Man in Black/Braves blog … our one little respite from the Brett Favre all day/all night coverage on ESTN. (The T is intentional, not a misprint. It stands for that thing Beavis said you can’t polish ….)

By Jeff R

July 29, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

The smart thing for Wren may be trying to obtain the best available talent for Super Tex and Ohman (and, perhaps, others), rather than trying to fill needs. Don’t forget, there are winter meetings upcoming. Granted, it would be nice to obtain a Connor Jackson or a Loney, but it’s hard to see how Wren does that unless the package the Braves offer is expanded or both teams involve more players in a deal.

But, ideally, I’d place a premium on pitching. I’d rather have plenty good young arms in the pipeline. Position players are typically easier to come by, via trade or free agency.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Mac is a great catcher, but if you think about the future, and he kepts having a beating like the one his gotten the last few years he wont last very long. I mean remember the Erick Byrnes collision with Mac, he was sidelined for a couple of weeks and got a bad ankle from that point on. And being that crouch for at least 145 games per year is not going to help him. Remember when Darrin Erstad knock down former all star johnny Estrada. He never did recover from that, and was designated for assignment two weeks ago.

First base is arguably the easiest position. I mean look at Tex, he is not fast and plays fantastic defense and has a gold glove to prove it. Or look at pujols, he isn’t fast either and has a gold glove too. And by the way Mac legs. For Mac’s sake move him to first before he gets seriously hurt.

There is a reason catchers don’t normally hit, or else they wouldn’t be catcher. They’re normally very good defensively and anything they can get offensively is a bonus.

By brian

July 29, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Wren will not make the deal for just Chad Tracy. He would take the draft picks. Tex does fit in well in Arizona and would probably take them to the post-season, but Arizona will not have Tex unless they give something up in return that the BRaves want. We are not just going to give Tex to them for fringe players and prospects. If we get Tracy plus significant prospect(s) then yes the deal will be probably worth it.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

sorry but LOL

LaRoche on DL

and Gonzo just got off about a month ago

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

McFann Your not being a pain at all. All your points are valid. I think what you are reading on the blog concerning BMac is the heartfelt love/appreciation for him as an extremely important member of our team for the next 10+ years. Everybody is just concerned and want him around and healthy for as long as possible.

He might not be capable of being a decent first sacker. Many think that just anybody can play first. Well, they can for a short period of time, but over the course of a few games, it becomes painfully evident just how important a good first baseman is to a team.

I like the idea of adding Mientkiewicz if we don’t get a suitable first sacker in trade. Dude can pick em.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Mike, if that’s the best offer the Braves get they will keep Tex and take the draft picks. Mark my words.

Now Wren could make an awful deal for Tex involving several players. But the only one-for-one I would see would involve Loney or C. Jackson. Even then I bet another player at least is included by both teams.

By T to the D

July 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

DOB- This Sir is what it must have looked like from the Padre’s perspective the week we got McGriff.

By blueridge

July 29, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

This trade, for Wren, could very possibly be what the Alexander/Smoltz deal was for Shurholtz. Pitching needs to be the top priority. I understand that teams aren’t lining up to give away top young arms, but I’m pretty sure Detroit wasn’t eager to trade away Smoltz at the time either. Please go after arms. Here’s to sticking with the formula.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Just up from the clubhouse, and it’s absolutely pouring here. Torrential downpour. Dark and windy.

By RC

July 29, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

McFann O,

It’s VERY early to be talking HOF for McCann. But based on what he’s done so far in his young career, I think it’s DEFINITELY a possibility, which is more than you can say for 90% of players who have been in the majors for less than 3 years.

By AZBravoFan

July 29, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

The comment about Murph reminded me what a dud deal the Braves got out of that. Ozzie Virgil and Mike Parrot right. Of course Murph, unlike Tex was on the downside of his career. But really, Chad Tracy is not much better than Virgil. The upside of the Murph deal was that it cleared room for a nice young outfielder named David Justice.

By TN-MAN

July 29, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

DOB you not on the radio today?

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Those hoping that the hulking rooftop bovine might get struck by lightning, it hasn’t happened yet.

By Lee

July 29, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

I really don’t agree with this desire to move McCann to first.

-I understand the fear of injuries, but the risk is no less at first (remember Derek Lee?) Besides Sunday’s game, how many collisions has he had? Not many. Honestly, he’s at more risk getting hurt by HBP or running the bases, which he would be doing regardless of position.

• Its nt a simple thing to switch positions. I think there is a misconception that anyone can play first. I think a lot of people take for granted what a great defender Tex is because of this. Its equally as difficult to field as third, except for the long throw. Any change for Mac would be a gradual process over a couple years.

• There aren’t many catchers better at calling games than Brian. You notice we’ve had pretty good pitching out of our B-team staff this year. We don’t get that without McCann behind the plate IMO. I know he is a great hitter, and he hasn’t been great at throwing out runners at times (more mechanics than lack of ability) but the first job of a catcher is to call the game for his pitcher, and there aren’t many better than #16.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Really, can anybody believe that the Dodgers would actually be interested in Manny Ramirez? While Manny is a great hitter, he is getting old, he is expensive, he is a lousy outfielder, and he is a disruption in the clubhouse.

But then again, they signed Juan Pierre, Nomar Garciaparra and Andruw Jones!

:-)

By Memphis Fan

July 29, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Espn Trade blog just reported that Kotchman pulled from pregame work-outs. They think the deal is done. Any truth to this?

By skip

July 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Sox website says Tex traded to LAA for Kotchman

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Great song choice.

The rain and dark skies over Turner Field are apropos. Maybe a huge clap of thunder will knock that damn cow over.

Raining here in Oxford, AL too. At least I think it is, very dark and thunder/lightning when I came in from work just a few minutes ago it hadn’t started to rain yet but it sure looked like it wanted to.

I noticed a couple typos in the above but didn’t want to be rude…would you rather us tell you or no, DOB ? I mean, it’s just a blog and I know they are just “in a hurry” errors…

Dayton? Take our French Fry, PLEASE!

By 57braves

July 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

ESPN just reported that Kotchman was pulled off the field during pre-game warmups. All indications are that he is our new 1st baseman. No other details regarding what else is in the package.

By Travis

July 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

ESPN just reported that Kotchman was pulled off the field during practice just now and that a deal is basically completed. Tex for Kotchman and a lesser player is the apparent trade…we’ll see if its true.

I think Kotchman is a far better option than Chad Tracy…

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Lee, beyond that, how special is a 1B who hits .320 with 30 bombs? Not too. At catcher, he might be the best hitter at his position since Johnny Bench, other than dude named Piazza.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Really, can anybody believe that the Dodgers would actually be interested in Manny Ramirez? While Manny is a great hitter, he is getting old, he is expensive, he is a lousy outfielder, and he is a disruption in the clubhouse.

But then again, they signed Juan Pierre, Nomar Garciaparra and Andruw Jones!

:-)

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Ha! DOB read my mind on the cow.

By used cars

July 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

RUMORS THAT KOTCHMANN WAS PULLED OFF THE FIELD FOR ANGELS…ANYONE HEAR ANYTHING ELSE….LET’S HOPE THERE IS PITCHING IN ADDITION TO KOTCH….

By DHD

July 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

LA gets Lugo, Manny and Ohman

Boston gets Tex, James and Andruw

ATL gets Crisp, Kemp and Loney

I know….it’s stupid, but I like it.

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

the reports are that Tex is going to the Angles for Kotchman and another player…I hope it is Adenhardt!!!!

By Lee

July 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Looks like its the Angles. Kotchman pulled from pregame warmups.

By Lew

July 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

No more Maddux for next year. No more Glavine for next year. Smoltz only on a minor league contract (IF he looks like he has comeback capability).

The time for reliance on these pitcher’s past records (no matter how great they WERE, is way past and if nothing else, this year absolutely proves we need to move in another direction and quit trying to patch things up or get the last drop of blood from a player.

We have a basic core of good young guys with Jair, Yunel and McCann. We do have a lot of holes, too, as well as question marks for players like Frenchy (I’m not ready to give up on him, but I’m not counting on a comeback until I see it, either). Let’s fill these holes with younger, rather than ancient players-even if vets are signed, let’s have them be mid career rather then one foot in the grave guys-it didn’t work.

We will have the cash, as salaries like Hampton’s will be gone, but let’s not head down the same road. We’ve seen it ain’t gonna work that way.

By TommyP

July 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

If we deal for Owings, I hope we do it with the idea that he’s a project and we’re grooming him as a 1B or LF in the minors.

Yusmeiro Petit. Remember the name. He could be the pitcher the Braves acquire in a D’back deal.

By MBPELICAN

July 29, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Kotchman and more for Tex per Stark

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: TEX TRADED TO ANGELS FOR KOTCHMAN AND ANOTHER PLAYER.

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Posted by Jayson Stark Angels first baseman Casey Kotchman was pulled off the field during pregame warmups this afternoon at Fenway Park. And there are strong indications he is about to be traded to the Braves for Mark Teixeira, according to a source with knowledge of those discussions. Details are still being finalized, and additional, lesser names are expected to be involved. But Kotchman for Teixeira is the core of this deal.

The latest: A second source with knowledge of these discussions says the Braves will get Kotchman, plus a second lesser name, for Teixeira in a 2-for-1 deal.

By blazerpunter

July 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Tex trade already made?

DOB, have you heard anything to substantiate this rumor from The Almighty Stark?

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

NOW ITS BEING REPORTED TEX FOR KOTCHMAN AND STEPHEN MAREK. if this is true, Wren got ripped on that one.

By Interested Observer

July 29, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

ESPN reporting Tex to Angels for Kotchman and I don’t know what else.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Teixeira for Kotchman, Marek close According to an American League source, the Angels and Braves are close to a deal that would send Mark Teixeira to the Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman and pitcher Stephen Marek.

It is not known if the Angels have had an opportunity to explore contract extension talks with Scott Boras, Teixeira’s agent. The slugging first baseman is set to become a free agent and is said to be seeking a deal for as many as eight years and upwards of $20 million per year.

Kotchman, arguably the MVP on the team with the Majors’ best record, would be under the Braves’ control through 2011. Marek is a hard-throwing reliever.

— Lyle Spencer

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

MLB.com’s Lyle Spencer says the second player is relief prospect Stephen Marek…

Who?????????????????????????????????

By brian

July 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

I agree Lee

McCann is much more valuable as a catcher. His stats as a catcher are top in the league. At 1B his stats would be good but would not stand out so much. It is a lot easier to find a good hitting 1B than a great hitting catcher. Besides as you mentioned it is not that easy to change positions. Focusing on the position change will likely take away from the hitting.

Same thing with Chipper. His stats as a 3B are much more impressive there than if he played 1B. If Chipper decides to move to 1B towards the end of the career then we will move him. Chipper has earned the right to play where he wants.

As far as people mentioning trading Chipper above, what are you smoking? Chipper will never be traded and should never be traded. Besides being a future Hall of Famer, how many players have given up money to help the team improve. Granted with his injuries the guaranteed money was good for him but he took a big cut. Atlanta owes a lot to Chipper and people should be thanking him, not talking about trading him for prospects.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

1B Casey Kotchman and P Stephen Marek to the Braves for Mark Teixeira.

Here ya go, folks

By Mike

July 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek traded to the Braves for Mark Teixeira.

A simply terrible aquisition for the Braves.

By Im

July 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

i guess casey kotchman is better than chad tracy. i don’t know how much that’s really saying, but it’s something.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Kotchman for Teixeira in works

Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Print Entry

Posted by Jayson Stark Angels first baseman Casey Kotchman was pulled off the field during pregame warm-ups this afternoon at Fenway Park. And there are strong indications he is about to be traded to the Braves for Mark Teixeira, according to a source with knowledge of those discussions. Details are still being finalized, and additional, lesser names are expected to be involved. But Kotchman for Teixeira is the core of this deal.

The latest: A second source with knowledge of these discussions says the Braves will get Kotchman, plus a second lesser name, for Teixeira in a 2-for-1 deal.

By P-Town Brave

July 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN’s Jayson Stark, Mark Teixeira is headed to the Angels for Casey Kotchman and a prospect.

WOW…so thats all we got for him?

I hope Wren does better selling on Ohman!

By jjb

July 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Tex is an Angel!!

By bulldog20

July 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Bill Shanks just confirmed on his afternoon radio show, that the trade is official. Angels get TEX, and the Braves get Casey Kotchman and a RH relief pitcher that is currently at the Angels AAA club.

By TommyP

July 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

We got Kotchman. Ugh.

By Interested Observer

July 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal says Tex for Kotchman and AA RHP Stephen Merak.

By Jake

July 29, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Kotchmen and a minor league pitcher for Tex.

By cabravesfan

July 29, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN:

Confirmed: Mark Teixeira to the Angels for Casey Kotchman and Double-A left-handed pitcher Stephen Marek.

By J.D.

July 29, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

SportsCenter says Tex traded to Angels for Kotchman and Stephen Marek

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Kotchman and and Class AA right-hander Stephen Marek are headed to Atlanta in exchange for the power-hitting first baseman.
—Ken Rosenthal

By jed

July 29, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

yep, deal’s been announced on mlbtraderumors.com. kotchman & marek for tex. sounds like a good deal to me.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Wayne. I know everybody is thinking of his health when they talk about this, and I like that.

But it’s like you said, a good defensive first baseman is very important to a team. And I’m not sure if McCann would be a very good defensive first baseman—and that’s obviously nothing against him, it’s just the truth. First basemen aren’t usually fast, but they have to have very good footwork or they’re in trouble.

And maybe right after a concussion is not the best time to teach a catcher how to play first base. His coordination might be a little off.

RC—

Point taken. If he keeps this up, it’d be a strong possibility. (Don’t think that’s never entered my mind.)

Lee—

I agree with every word you wrote in that 5:42 post.

DOB—

Torrential downpour? Nice. We got some weather here, too. Good point about 3BMac.

Any news outta the clubhouse?

By Halo Nation

July 29, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Wren got fleeced!!!!

HAHAHAHAHA.

Marek is an OKAY prospect and Kotchman has warning track power!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

BRAVES SHOULD OF TAKEN THE DRAFT CHOICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

I’m told it’s true, Tex to the Angels. Gotta confirm. but yes, i believe it’s happened.

By Matt

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

According to LA Times, it’s Marek and Kotchman for Tex. Come on DOB, get us some info!!

By Robin

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

FINALLY! It’s official - Tex is gone. Now lets get on with playing some ball. This is the only move we’re gonna make.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox, Prado has made 12 starts in his big league career. I think it’s clearly a matter of such a small sample.

ESPN is reporting Tex-for-Kotchman and a double-A pitcher is a done deal.

By OrlandoFan

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

ESPN just confirmed Tex to Angels for Kotchman and lefty pitcher

By logwat

July 29, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

ESPN.com reporting that its a confirmed deal - Tex for Kotchman and Marek…

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Word on ESPN is that it is going to be Kotchman and Stephen Marek? for Tex.

Again, not confirmed at this point, but supposedly Kotchman has been pulled from the pre-game workouts.

XM is now reporting this….

By Ray

July 29, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

ESPN is reporting the trade is done.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Stephen Marek

Career Minor League
ERA: 3.53
SO/BB: 348/130

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

it certainly beats the chad tracy deal.

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Those of you wondering, Kotchman actually bats better against left handers than he does right handers.

By TommyP

July 29, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Marek is apparently a power arm, potential closer. Interesting prospect.

Here’s what I don’t get and I was NOT one of the ones crying about Wren taking so long.

Why not wait ‘til the 31st and see if anyone panics and ups the ante?????????????????

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

If this rumor is true about Tex, I am TICKED!

By prattvillenolzfan

July 29, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

If the game is delayed tonight due to rain….any chance Kotchman can get to ATL in time to play……

By Train Wreck Bystander

July 29, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Yeah, they are announcing the trade on the radio pre-game.

Thanks Tex for all the good work. Wish it could have turned out differently.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

This is the first year of relief pitching for Marek. Wonder if the Braves are thinking of putting him back in a Starters role. Angels may have changed his role for this season due to the impending Free Agency of K-Rod (hate that nick name). Marek is supposed to be a hard thrower.

By rupert

July 29, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

don’t give me this kotchman is a terrible s**, i bet most of the people on this blog have never seen him play, there is a report of someone with the angels saying he was their team mvp so far, he plays really good defense, is getting more comfortable at the plate and hitting for more power, better than two hit or miss draft picks and the braves control him through 2011, the reliver is hard throwing and averages well over a strikeout per inning, not sure about his back story

seems like the braves liked kotchman much more than chad tracey and i would agree, better d, more consistent at the plate, younger… not a tremendous deal, but seems like wren took the best offer, and will now have 2 days to look at deals for ohman, kotsay, maybe frencouer and johnson

By Ed Glennon

July 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Goodbye Tex

By Braves fan born in 1987

July 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Thank god it’s not Tracy. Much better than two draft picks. Good haul, IMO. They weren’t going to get Conor Jackson or James Loney. I do wish they had gotten a staring prospect, but perhaps Ohman and Kotsay could bring that.

We’ll miss ya, Tex. Nothing but a class act. And some denizens can say what they want, he is not the reason the BRaves’ season is in the tank.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul

WOW dude’s averaging almost 100 SO/yr

By JEB

July 29, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

TEX for Kotchman and Stephen Marek is a WHOLE LOT better than TEX for 2 first round draft picks!!

It gets us a 1basmn. for 2 - 3 years after this and a reliever that is just about major league ready! All this for RIGHT NOW and next year. Not 3 - 4 years away!

By SeaAtl

July 29, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

Sick to my stomach. The Braves are obviously much worse after this trade than before. That’s no surprise. But what worries me is the trend - looking back at what Atlanta gave up to get Tex, and now what Atlanta got in this trade. The Braves are continuing to get worse each season. The two draft picks next year would have been more valuable than these two players. Very sad so see the Braves dynasty end. Tragic to see them continue to get worse, and worse, and worse, to the point that they won’t be remembered as an elite team by anyone but old die-hard fans. Bad trade, but not sure FW could have done much better.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

Yowza. Marek is 24, huge strikeout guy.

By TommyP

July 29, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Now it gets really interesting.

Let’s see what we can get for Ohman.

Let’s see what we can get for Kotsay.

Let’s see if a trade for a Jason Bay or some other OF materializes.

Let’s see if a suprise trade is made (Franceour or Kelly).

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

For those thinking this is a bad deal, are you kidding me??

Kotchman is going to be a welcome addition to this Braves team. He is a definite know commodity, an average to above average player, and Marek looks like he throws hard. It seems he has been moved to a bullpen role this past season.

If the D’backs weren’t offering Jackson and the Dodgers weren’t offering Loney or Kemp or Ethier, then Kotchman is a pretty good bounty, and a much more immediate return than 2 draft choices.

By Rayman

July 29, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t see how we could expect more since everyone knows that he and his agent intend to go to the highest bidder this winter.

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

DOB Torrential downpour. Dark and windy.

Kinda reminds me of this season…

By Steve in Utah

July 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Well goodbye Tex. Thanks for helping make Chipper a near .400 hitter and McCann a 20-HR catcher this year. Well it’s good to know now that the next two months of my calendar has freed up now the Bravos are waving the white flag. I’ll still watch them here in Utah, but it won’t be appointment viewing until next April, unless Chipper catches lightning in a bottle the rest of the way.

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Here’s a little bit of info on Marek from an Angels blog…

“As a starting pitcher Steve Marek ranked in the 30-40 range of our Top-50 Prospect Report. But, as I said in an edition of our “Ask Angelswin.com” segment, he’s easily ranked a lot higher as a reliever with two plus pitches. Marek pitches in the low to mid 90’s, touching 97 MPH, and has a hammer curve. When the Angels converted him back into a reliever it was the right move as his lack of a consistent changeup was hurting his value as a starting pitcher. The results of the move have spoken for themselves so far this year in Arkansas.

Marek has a 3.00 ERA, but has held opposing hitters to a .218 batting average while fanning 46 hitters in 36 innings as the Travelers setup man. He has a good chance to be a part of what looks to be a dynamite bullpen for the Angels in the future.”

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

MLBTraderumors.com seems to believe it is a solid return and that it beats a couple of draft choices of unknown position. I seem to agree. Come on folks, if you seriously thought the D-backs were gonna part with Conor Jackson, or if the Dodgers were gonna part James Loney for a 2 month rental, you are sadly mistaken. Neither the D-Backs or the Dodgers would have been able to re-sign him at the end of the year, something that the Angels surely will be able to do. Kotchman, in my opinion is better than Chad Tracy and the Dodgers were smart to hold on to Loney. So, this seems to be the best we could get. The Angels sure as heck were not going to give up the farm just incase they cannot re-sign Tex. So we got a good deal. Give it a rest already.

By Dan_in_NC

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Well, hate to see Tex go but its a business and the Braves are officially sellers for the first time since the Dale Murphy era.

We got Kotchman through 2011, that enough makes this a good deal IMO. My guess is that this isn’t the only trade we will make between now and Thursday. Let’s see how this all pans out before we jump on Frank Wren.

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

I like the trade…

Some of yall already had your hate posts prepared… It wouldn’t have mattered who we got in return

By Lee

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

I like the deal. Kotchman is a plus defender hitting his prime and under team control through 2011. And the guy puts the ball in play (23 Ks in 373 ABs)

Even if Marek never pans out I think Wren did a good job. Now the team can focus on getting a pitcher this offseason.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the stat link, TennPaul. Marek may be able to contribute next year.

By AdirondackDave

July 29, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Good deal FW — Kotchman and anybody for 2 months of Tex is just fine. He’s under control for 3 years and should enable us to put serious money/players into a couple top rung power outfielders or one outfielder and one #1-2 pitcher. We can be very competitive next year if this kind of management continues, and I think it will.

By fastasballs

July 29, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Believe me Wren could have done a lot worse than Kotchman. He’s solid & from the 10-15 Halo games I have seen this year, he’s fairly clutch. Last night included.

He’s a good piece. Now Wren can work on getting a power bat for left field.

By Josh M

July 29, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Good lord, what are you people complaining about? This was a great deal to help our staff immediately, and through 2011.

Did you think we were getting Manny? A-Rod?

By Duane

July 29, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Kotchman is a solid pickup. He’s young, still maturing physically, cheap, durable, and improving every week. He is also a slick fielder. Pencil him in for .290, 20 HRs, 85 RBIs batting in the 5 hole (McCann moves to cleanup). The Angels have showed that you can win with Kotch at 1B. Now, if we can use some money to upgrade CF and our RF gets his head out of his ###, all we have to worry about is pitching. Forever an optimist….

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

TommyP, I was thinking the exact same thing!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

As someone commented on the mlbtraderumors blog:

Boston, it’s your move.

The bidding will now open on Mr. Ohman and Mr. Kotsay (just to mention a couple of names).

By spotts

July 29, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

We could’ve done A LOT better. I think I’d rather have the draft picks. If we couldn’t compete this year with Tex, how are we gonna compete next year (or any year) with Kotchman and an average AA arm?

By Original Jon

July 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl Dude, seriously try to grip the reality of the trade. Atlanta gave up all of them prospects hoping and thinking that Tex would lead them to TWO playoff berths. He’s lead them to NONE. The Angels were not going to give up the same number of players, that we did, for a 2 month rental. Get that straight, they are getting 2 months of Tex, we got him for a year and two months. We had to give more than them because we got him longer. How hard is that to understand? Oh and it is not a bad trade in the least sense? You would have rather Tex walk and we get 2 draft picks of unknown choices? Not knowing when or if they would ever even make it to the majors? That there would have made the trade for Tex last year seem like a bigger bust, just letting him walk for 2 draft choices, SHEESH!

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Not a terrible haul. Got a cheap 1B for a few years and a good relief guy. Lots of money free next year to sign a starter. Perhaps an OF acquisition and/or Ohman trade in the works.

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

HEX IS HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There IS a cure for cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

By Jake

July 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Stop the trades now. We are obviously not dealing from a position of strength as Wren thought. Teams are kinda dictating to us.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

rupert

maybe you haven’t noticed but WE PLAYED THE ANGELS THIS YEAR….PEOPLE HAVE SEEN!

By SeaAtl

July 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

I do wish Tex well - he had a good season. The slow start drove me crazy, but he can’t be blamed solely for this painful season. Maybe this pitcher is more than a “throw in” and turns out to be the steal in this trade - looks like he throws hard & racks up K’s. Guess another silver lining is that Kotchman is here for a couple of years, so 1B shouldn’t be a concern as it would have been had we kept Tex only to lose him as a free agent. Still a bit sick, but on more thought I guess it’s probably as good as we had any right to expect.

By Calvin

July 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Looks like Tex got traded for a defensive 1B and a bag of balls…oh, my bad, a relief pitcher. Amazing.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

If that is all we can get, than that is all we can get.

Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, Jones = Teixiera, Ron Mahay

Ron Mahay = Brett Devall

Teixeira = Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek

So we got Kotchman, Stephen Marek and Brett Devall for Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz and Jones…………………………….

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Thanks Tex! Woulda, coulda, shoulda aside, it wasn’t your fault. Just some bad luck, and some decisions that didn’t work out.

Lew Good points about 2009. Gotta get away from the old guys. I would only be interested in Smoltz in a bullpen role, and maybe (HUGE MAYBE) Hampton as a back end starter, if he comes around, and IF he comes cheaply.

Huddy is the big question mark. JJJ, James, JoJo, Campy, Morton, Hanson, Lerew, Redmond are all young, and could go either way (JJJ less iffy than the others). We need to add at least one more arm next year, or a prospect for Ohman. 2009 might be a long shot for being competitive, or setting up 2010.

It will be an interesting winter, as they all are!

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Does the torrential downpour mean the press boxes wont be catching fire this evening?

By Braint

July 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

I like KJ to left — the guy can flat out rake and he’s only 26. Prado playing 2B the rest of the year would be great.

Please get Loney or Jackson for Tex. Chad Tracy would be a disappointment.

We are fine here in LA but the shaker lasted a LONG time. Very unsettling (no pun intended.)

By DesiBrave

July 29, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

FANTASTIC TRADE. FRANK WREN HAS PULLED ANOTHER GREAT DEAL. I LOVE IT .

By Chad

July 29, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Good trade Mr. Wren!

Kotchman is just as good as Tex…

Most of Tex’s stats were just that, just stats.

When he was needed the most HE DID NOT PRODUCE

I would have done the deal straight up.

By Richard Hamilton

July 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

This is actually a pretty solid deal for the Braves. No one was going to pay through the roof for a two month rental. Might as well get over that one people. You can’t cry about what we gave up for Tex and compare this with that deal. Kotchman is actually a very good defensive 1B, who is a solid hitter, and he’s only like 24 or 25 and locked up through 2011. This should allow the Bravos to go out and get a good outfielder and starting pitcher this off season.

By Bilal

July 29, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

I am not impressed. I though that we could have gotten Brandon Wood somehow if we included Ohman in the dead. Wood is a heck of player….

By Angels Fan

July 29, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Congrats Braves, you made it hurt out here in CA. If you play your cards right, you may have just landed a guy who will be solid at 1B for you for the next 10 years. Casey is a good guy, too. He may not be Teixeira yet, but he’ll be a stud in a few years. Sweet swing!

By TommyP

July 29, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Wren now has to upgrade that OF significantly at every spot.

LF? Must be improved.

CF? Blanco can be short term but deal Kotsay and see what we can do to upgrade there.

RF? Is Franceour the answer? If we can get a Zack Greinke for him, it might be time to do that. Jeff just looks horrible now.

It’s like Franceour caught the hitter’s version of the “Steve Blass syndrome.”

By J.L.

July 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

The Braves did great.

By Keb Mo4

July 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Great deal. Very happy with this one. Surprised with got a strong player in Kotchman!!! Good job Frank!

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

I’d be happy if they’d traded him for a dozen cat-head biscuits and a magnum of maple syrup, so needless to say I’m elated with Kotchman and what’s his name.

YEAH!!

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Who’s next???

What can we realistically get for Ohman and Kotsay?

If I thought we could/would resign Ohman for 2-3 years, I would love to keep him.

I don’t think Kotsay brings much.

As for others, I really don’t expect KJ or Frenchy to be dealt, unless something breaks loose in the winter.

The lineup will be interesting tonight, for sure.

My guess: Blanco, Escobar, Kotsay, KJ, Norton, Francoeur, Infante, and Sammons.

By Mr J

July 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Good-Bye Tex.

You’re a terrific player, and appear to a good guy. Thanks for your effort, and good luck with your career.

By bulldog20

July 29, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

This deal is looking much better than I first thought.

Kotchman has a bright future and is above average both offensively and defensively…and this young pitcher, Stephen Marek, looks like he could be a future closer or a solid starter. Good numbers in the minors.

He was moved from starting to the bullpen this season because he was being groomed as a potential replacement for the Angels closer, Rodriguez. The Braves are most likely looking for him to be a middle of the rotation starter in the next year or two.

Once again, good job Frank Wren!

By Dan in NJ

July 29, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Great trade.IMO. Infield SET for a few more years…and cheap at that. Now with Tex/1B off the books…and others(hampton,glavine,etc). The Braves WILL have money to spend on Starting Pitchers.

Hope they can land a legit OF(Bay?) and maybe get one (OF) with Ohman or whoever else they decide to trade. The B-Pen will be fine next season. SO the Braves WILL compete next year. I’m content and confident that with an addition of an Ace during the offseason,plus maybe Smoltz coming back. The Braves will be fine come next season.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Here’s an alternative view of Stephen Marek:

Baseball Prospectus Article

Check the “Don’t Believe the Hype” section for the Angels.

By Renegator

July 29, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

I don’t know much about Kotchman. Does he become our clean-up hitter next year or does FW still need to trade for one?

McCann (gonna miss 35 games) and anyone else on the roster are not good clean-up options.

By Jeff321

July 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

The new lineup has been updated on mlb.com. And Norton is playing first base.

By chipdip

July 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Quit the crying…its a very good deal.

By Taylor S

July 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Kotchman is a great pick up. Many people said we could never get this much for Tex. We got this guy for 3 and a half seasons. Hes only 25 and making peanuts.

Aparently he had mono the season before last and is still developing. All reports iv seen say he is clutch and a total gamer.

I dont know much about the pitcher but he has a very high strike out rate. Looks like another power arm for the bullpen.

We just filled a major need for next season and you people are complaining ?

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Chad, you’re a DAZZLING mind reader!

By Lee

July 29, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

*Steve from OH * good info on Marek. Wren may think he can be our post-Gonzo closer.

The thing I don’t like about this trade is that Tex won’t get his well deserved NL Gold Glove. I think we got all we expected and then some out of that guy! At least he gets to play for another great manager in Scioscia

By Chad

July 29, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Stats over the last 30 days:

Kotchman: 4 HR’s 16 RBI’s 7 K’s

Teixieira: 4 HR’s 16 RBI’s 16 K’s

By Josh

July 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

That “bag of balls” has struck out over a batter per inning this season.

By Mr. Optimistic

July 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

this trade appears to be the best they could get. i will say this. they keep knocking off payroll. they MUST now spend some money on players. no more of this cheap stuff. just knocked another 10 mil off wit tex being traded.its time to bring up some of these Triple AAA players in CF to see what we have. also GET a bat in LF a power bat in the offseason.Smotlz isnt coming back as a starter. Bullpen for him. if we have a pen of smoltz in the 7th,soriano in the 8TH,gonzo in the 9th,moylan insures smotlz,carlye and or benett in mop up duty or when a starter gets injured and acosta & boyer and a rotation of JJ Campillo glavine maybe Hudson if he is healty a big time free agent SP this team can contend in 09. no way can there be as many season affecting injuries as this year.

By Robert

July 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

I am impressed. An outstanding trade for the Braves

By shoe

July 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

He is one that I would have kept. Focus should be on the young guys. I would have traded/ etc the old timers that don’t play anyway during the past off season. Would have been far ahead.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Well this should be interesting. Kotchman is certainly better than Tracy. He’s a sound player. Certainly not a slugger like Teixeira. More consistant than LaRoche with less power. That other kid we’ll just have to wait and see.

Kotchman… they don’t call him “Clutchman” for nothing. Ha! He is solid though.

By Renegator

July 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

What does the lineup look like tonight with no Chipper, no Tex, no McCann?

Wow - talk about a AAA lineup

By used cars

July 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

For everyone that’s complaining and wanted Conner Jackson…There is not much difference between Kotchman and Jackson…would have been nice to get a right-handed bat, but Kotchy (you figure that’s what Cox will call him) is a gold glove quality 1b and Jackson is really a man without a position…If you look at Marek’s stats in a hitter’s league, they are not bad…10.99 k/per 9 and only 2 bombs…we need starters but we also need a couple of relievers who can miss bats…maybe Ohman, Kotsay and one of our extra infielders can bring lf help and a starting pitcher…

By AMG

July 29, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Wow!! I go on vacation for the last two months and what happend to the Braves.

I think Wren took the best trade offer.

Have you seen the line up for tonight’s game? I think a team would get fined if they tried that line up in a split squad game during spring training.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Renegator,

Heap can be and should be the cleanup hitter next year.

The Braves needed another RH masher while Tex was here. They need one now. That yet-to-be-acquired person can hit cleanup when Mac is resting.

The need remains …

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Different Take,

The Braves got Kotchman, Marek, and DeVall for Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, Jones, Mahay, and Teixeira.

(You forgot to add Tex and Mahay in there. Without those two, the Braves wouldn’t have Kotchman, Marek, or DeVall.)

It doesn’t look quite as good the way I put it, does it?

By JEB

July 29, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Great Trade Frank Wren!! We’ve got Kotchman at 1b for 3 more years - hits .285 against rh pitchers & over .300 vs. LHP! Salary is 1.5 mil. this year -leaves us a WHOLE LOT of money for starting pitcher!! This IS a big deal gang!!!!

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Somewhere, a Legendary Freezer Burnt Head is smiling for us…

By LT-AA Blogger

July 29, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Nice trade in my opinion- pretty much straight up. Kotchman isn’t Texeria but he seems to be more than adequate.

We filled a hole for the next few years and saved how much over the next 5-7 years? 100-150 million (Whatever Tex signs for minus whatever Kotchman makes).

Seriously, who that reads this blog regularly would want for the next 5-7 years hear folks bemoan Texeria for the first 2-3 months of the season.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 29, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

If I’m an Angels fan, I sure better hope that the GM resigns Tex at the end of the year.

For the Bravos this is a good trade. As several have stated in past days, the Braves could not expect to get top dollar value for a 2 month rental of Tex. Kotchman and this minor league pitcher provide a much better return than two draft picks at the end of the year.

By John

July 29, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

I have to say, I’m OK with this trade. Kotchman and a strike out AA guy, whether SP or RP is a hell of a lot better than Tracy and whoever else the Dbacks might have tossed out there. Kotchman is steadily improving everyday, and is young and will fit in well with the rest of our young IF (Chipper excluded, of course) Further, this will free up a LOT of money for next season to bring in some high-quality SP and/or OF’s with Hampton Glavin and (I hope not) Smoltz’s salaries coming off the books. I’d say, overall and considering the circumstances, trade market, etc… that this was an OK deal. Not great, but about the best we could have really expected. Screw the draft picks. Too iffy. And if we had taken the picks, we’d STILL have to find someone to fill our 1B position, yet another hole to fill on a team already full of holes that two draft picks wouldn’t help for two or three years, If ever…..

By DumpHampton

July 29, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Pretty decent move on the part of the Braves. Now if they would just get rid of that gimp Hampton and start spending that wasted money on young talent!! I like seeing the Braves in the post-season. I don’t know why management doesn’t :(

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 29, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Never seen Kotchman play, but all things considered this looks like a decent trade. Kotchman doesn’t seem like a huge drop-off offensively from Tex, and while I don’t know anything about his defense he seems to have a good reputation defensively. Losing the switch hitting bat may hurt a little, but the Braves could have done worse in this situation.

Of course, this only further validates the contention that last year’s Teixeira trade was misguided and pointless.

By 57braves

July 29, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Lee,

Are you serious? Do you think Tex gives a rip about Atlanta? To feel bad that he won’t get a NL Gold Glove is ludicrous. He thinks that Boras hung the moon and I am glad that he is gone. Three teams in 2 years with maybe a fourth team says something about him.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

LOL no wonder they didn’t “want to trade Kotchman

• Son of longtime Angels’ scout and minor league manager Tom Kotchman.*

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Been downstairs talking to Wren, Teixeira, etc.

Red Sox, Yankees, Rays and Dodgers were also involved, but Kotchman was best player offered, in Braves’ view.

He’s under control for next three years; he’s a “Super Two” arb guy this year, the top 10 percent in service below the three year threshold.

Marek was in Double-A, Braves think he could be here in a year or two.

Tex said he was “open” all year to hearing an offer, never got one.

WREN: “This is obviously not the way we wanted the season to end, and go forward, but we look at it as building for the future. We really believe that this is the first step in going forward, and Casey Kotchman is a player that we can envision at first base for us for the next several years.”

“We feel like he’s still getting better, like he’s a real solid player now, and in watching him he’s gotten better and better. He’s a quality defender, and we also got a good, young arm who we feel like will be in our bullpen in the next couple of years.”

“We’re going to miss Mark Teixeira. But at the same time, as we plan to improve our ballclub, we feel like we got the best player out there. We’re excited about that.”

I asked him if getting a 1B was crucial:

“We wanted to get a player that would be the most impactful for our major league club now and going forward, and we felt Casey was that. He was a guy who fit our needs very well, and he was the guy who would allow us to add to the good mix of players we already have to go forward.”

TEX: “I think I did everything that was asked of me. I came in here and played good defense and drove in runs. Unfortunately, we had so many injuries this year it just didn’t work out. You can’t help that. You really can’t.”

“It’s a little unfortunate that we had those injuries, but it’s just part of the game. I love all these guys, I really do.”

“Very bittersweet. I’m gonna miss these guys.”

When asked if Braves might get in free-agent bidding for him, he smiled:

“I would probably say no. I thought I’d be here the rest of my career. I really wanted to stay here, but business is business and it’s time for me to move on.”

Anaheim for rest of career?

“I’m looking to win a World Series, then we can talk about that later. I’ve played six years and I’ve got two months before free agency, and we’ll see what happens.”

Excited about testing free agency?

“I am. It’s something not many guys get to do. I’ve been very blessed in my career and lucky to have health and have success. We’ll see what happens.”

“I’ve got a flight in the morning, and I’ll be ready to play tomorrow.”

I was always open for it. This whole year I was open for it. But that’s business, it just didn’t work out.

By P-Town Brave

July 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Renegator

This is why I still see us trying to make another run @ Jason Bay…

Look at this lineup next yr:

1) Blanco rf 2) Escobar ss 3) CJones 3b 4) Bay lf 5) Mac c 6) Kotchman 1b 7) Schafer cf 8) Prado 2b

I see this as having some potential if we can find a way to send out Francoeur and KJ and get a decent return…maybe some pitching..young pitching

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

DOB: Has Wren suggested more trades to come or is he done?

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

So much for Tex winning the Gold Glove.

Good trade—bad trade…time will tell, I guess.

By What A Crock

July 29, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Casey Kotchman and pitching prospect Stephen Marek with a 2-6 and 3.66 ERA. This what the Braves end of with after the Texas trade for Tex. What a crock. The Braves are now destine to repeat the 1970s and 80s again now. They have broken down veterans and nothing prospects. Their minor leagues which are suppose to be so darn great have not turned out a decent pitcher in years. They had to trade to get JJ. Now, they are stuck with a 40th round prospect and another 1B who has little power. They made this trade KNOWING FULL WELL they would never get Tex the mega contract he was wanting, and they have millions on broken down veterans. They are not going to hit the free agent market because this years market is not that great. They will never pay the cost for CC in Milwaukee, so what good is having millions saved. They save Hampton’s mega millions next year, but maybe now Hudson is the new Hampton with elbow problems and a huge contract. And Chipper, don’t get me started. Enough with his silly, endless list of injuries. How many Braves have been on the DL this year? How many done for the SEASON!!!? This must tell you something about the QUALITY of their players. This is going into the pockets of those great new owners. Well, I am for one, finally tired of it. I am truly finished buying their crap, coming to the stadium to watch a basically AAA team of kids and broken down vets for major league prices. No thanks. No more. I have barely hung on to watch them this season. I am finished watching. It is time for the real sport anyway, football. At least I don’t have to root for the stinking Falcons. I have never rooted for them, or the stinking Hawks. Now, I can add the STINKING, broken down, rookie, cowardly ownership, lousy Braves to the list. Good bye Columbus, I am out of Dodge.

By ExATLinPDX

July 29, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Good job getting Kotchman. I was concerned we were going to end up with Conor Jackson, who’s 3 years older and statistically the worst 1B in baseball, instead. And that pitcher’s minor league stats are decent, so perhaps he’ll pan out.

But with the prospect of a devastating injury to Hudson looming, it’s the rotation that’s starting to give me nightmarish visions of the mid-to-late ’80s Braves. I certainly hope the Braves plan to spend some of that money they’re saving next year by not re-signing Tex, having Hampton come off the books, and possibly Glavine and (I hope not) Smoltz too.

Otherwise, the 2009 Braves will be DOA. Jair Jurrjens and pray for rain. Rick Camp, anyone?

By rupert

July 29, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

bravos2249

three games can’t give anyone an idea of how a player is night in and night out, that was my point, oh yeah he hit the homerun that beat the braves in the sunday night game, so he must really suck (granted it was a cheap homer but still), kid is sollid at worst

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

this whole sequence of events would of been avoided if the braves just would of stepped up and paid the arbitration eligible la roche after the good season in 2006.

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Hex was an enigma wrapped in a riddle and stuffed with barnyard droppings. He’ll have a good, long, off-season, since he doesn’t play till June.

I’m gonna take this opportunity to get drunk!

Bye

By Logan

July 29, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

More Marek Stats

milb.com player search for Marek if the link doesn’t work. avg. with runners on and runners in scoring position is a bit alarming.

By A bemused observer

July 29, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Micah Owings = Adam Dunn under a delusion that he could pitch

By RC

July 29, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

*”The Braves got Kotchman, Marek, and DeVall for Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, Jones, Mahay, and Teixeira.

(You forgot to add Tex and Mahay in there. Without those two, the Braves wouldn’t have Kotchman, Marek, or DeVall.)”*

Chop Chop, you didn’t do too well in high school algebra did you? Tex and Mahay would be on BOTH sides of the equation, so it cancels out. Different Take got it right.

By uncle peepot

July 29, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

This is a very good trade.I don’t care if we had gotton 10 players for Tex you guys are gonna b*** and complain.You don’t know nothing about baseball.FW mad a good trade.This trade is better than just getting 2 draft picks for Tex.you b*** and complin that it is Bobby’s fault for all the loses this year but as Chipper said don’t blame Bobby,it is not his fault,it is all the injuries.You Morons complain that Chipper should be traded and you don’t even realize that Chipper is the important part of this team,trading Chipper is just down right dumb and stupid idea. Kotchman is gonna be here for 3 years before free agency.he is gonna help us.Good job FW.

By Jon F.

July 29, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Great Deal! Now we’re set at first for a while with plenty of cash to sign a great starter and get a consistent power threat in the outfield. I’d like to see us keep Ohman, just because he’s signed for cheap next year. If it turns out we don’t need him, fine, but you can never have too many good arms in the ‘pen. He’s a great situational lefty. In some ways, though, we might be able to get more for him than Tex.

By fastasballs

July 29, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

We’ll see, but I think The Krotchman will be more our liking than Tex. He’s use to playing winning baseball & the Braves can use all of those type players they can get.

Now the Braves need a power hitting left fielder, a couple of starters & a bench. That’s not hard to accomplish is it?

There should be at least 30 million to spend next season so Wren will have a shot at making things work.

There is no way they go into next season with a bench like they have had for two seasons. Lack of back ups have cost this team dearly. Granted Infante being hurt early in the year didn’t help matters, but Miller?

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Boy I sure hope Kelly isn’t the next one to go.

By AdirondackDave

July 29, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

This is a fine start for the club re-build. More than adequate offensively and defensively at a price that gives us more flexibility at other positions. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Braves negotiate a 5-6 year deal with him buying out a few years of free agency. He seems to be our type of player.

By RC

July 29, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

A couple of promising stats on Kotchman:

Career K vs. BB: 108 vs. 100. Career K vs. AB: 108 vs. 1137.

The guy simply doesn’t strike out much at ALL. For a team that can be so frustruating at times with men in scoring position, I view this as a BIG positive.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Tex comments about considering a contract (that was never offered) is pretty disingenuous. (or better stated, BS)

By Robert

July 29, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Our initial offer to LA was Tex and Cox for Kotchman and a sack of dogshit. They countered with Kotchman and a prospect for Tex

By Mike

July 29, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

I hope Tex has a fun time in NY getting booed off the field for his poor first halfs. I am glad this cancer is off the team. Now he can go be just like his Idol Mattingly and never win a playoff series.

By flange1

July 29, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

WELL IT’S DONE.

good bye Tex.

Thanks for the season of good baseball. You came in a did exactly what was asked of you. It would have been great if you hadn’t started so slow, but you always do so that SHOULD have been expected.

Welcome to Casey Kotchman. He has always reminded me of Mark Grace. I think he will be a great contact hitter, able to work counts, not many strike outs and a little pop in his bat.

A very nice piece to add to the Braves puzzle.

And it is always nice to get a hard throwing kid with control. Maybe he needs some more work, but that is OK.

Now let’s see what we can get for Ohman. And maybe Kotsay, Norton and Gotay.

Bring up the kids and lets have some fun for the rest of the year.

Let’s see Lillibridge some at second.

Let’s see KJ back in the outfield.

Let’s see B Jones back in the bigs and see how good he really is.

We have to get ready because this winter is going to be a lot of fun for Braves fans.

MANY deals to be made..

Folks complain all you want to, but this is a good trade.

By The Truth

July 29, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Like the deal to be honest with you. I said this would happen more than a month ago along with some others who were getting beat up by “real braves fans” when talking about trading Tex. Some of the guys were saying that we should trade him to the Rockies for Holliday. I didn’t think that trade would happened. I either figured it would be the Angels or the Dodgers because both the Yankees and Red Sox have nothing we could use.

Anyway, why I like the trade is the fact that we get a young first basemen who we don’t have to worry about losing for a few years. Meaning that we have what should be a starter at first base for the next 3 seasons which will end the rotation of first basemen we’ve had the past few seasons in LaRoche, Thompson, and Tex. Getting the pitcher in the trade doesn’t hurt neither. You can never have enough arms (just take a look at our pitching staff this year).

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

you mean TEX had it out in the open he would listen to offers and the Braves didn’t offer him any deals?

But he still wanted to stay….well that makes EVERYONE feel better.

By Supes

July 29, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

FRANK WREN did NOT get enough in return. I don’t mind basically exchaning 1B with the Haloes but it’s disappointing to only get a AA reliever prospect as the additional piece.

I wish Frank was more aggressive, maybe even packaged Ohman, or someone else, try and get another top prospect in return that can play the OF.

Braves have a big need for power hitting OF prospects who are close to being ready to play everyday in the bigs.

Without TEX this team needs to play hit and run, small ball and we know Bobby will never do it…Braves are designed to lose a bunch more games from now on. Injuries combined.

By Plate Appearance

July 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

COMMENTS FROM TEX

I was certainly surprised to hear Tex’s comments about wanting to stay a Brave for the rest of his career and being open to an in season offer from the Braves.

I never heard that before — at least in what I read.

I can’t help but wonder if his comments don’t reflect more negative “fallout” from having Boras for an agent. For Boras always seems to be much more about the money than a client’s happiness and well being.

So I wonder if Tex had been merely spouting the Boras “soon to be free agent” script early on — and now has second thoughts based on his felt desires and has finally openly voiced them.

I do hate to see Tex go, but I don’t believe the dollars Boras will attempt to get for him can be justified.

What did Gary Sheffield once say? That he would try to warn other players about not signing Boras as their agent.

I guess Tex didn’t get the warning.

It’s too bad for Tex and the Braves — if that is, he might have signed with the Braves at a more reasonable salary, which still seems unlikely.

By Robin

July 29, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Casey seems like a “whole year” player, none of that “wait till the second half when I get hot” crap.

Never liked Tex’s goofy running style either. Straight-up, high-knees …..GOOFY!

But, thanks Tex and good luck. There’s yer ring big fella!

By CaliChopper

July 29, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

That wasn’t a quake we had out in the LA area, caltech just reported the tremors centered in the ravine, it was just Andruw falling off the bench…

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Utah

Tex said he wouldn’t per se sign/ talk contracts before…he never said anything about not listening for offers.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

N-U-T-S !

Frank Wren sold this team short. He never should have focused on getting a replacement for Tex because that is essentially all the Braves got.

Casey Kotchman is a fine player in his own right and the Braves can control him for the next few seasons without breaking the bank. His defense is nearly as good as that of Teixeira.

However, he isn’t worth what the Braves gave up. Which is, two first round draft picks and Mark Teixeira.

By sri

July 29, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Why the hell is Corky in the lineup today? Is there something that we are missing about Sammons?

By Martin

July 29, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Is there anyway the braves are still talking to the bucs for jason bay?

By A-ville Ranger

July 29, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

I’ve been calling for this trade for a month.After hiking I turned on the game to see Tex traded for Kotchman.

Kotchman and a young pitcher is a very good move in my opinion.So now 1st base is covered next year and who knows we may end up a good pitcher to boot…well done.

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

ExATLinPDX wrote this:

“Good job getting Kotchman. I was concerned we were going to end up with Conor Jackson, who’s 3 years older and statistically the worst 1B in baseball, instead.”

Okay, dude. Here’s what 26-year-old Conor Jackson (about 8.5 months older than Kotchman) has done this season:

12 HR, 56 RBI, 7 SB, .322/.404/.510

That’s a .914 OPS for those who don’t like math.

(I don’t like math.)

Those numbers are comparable to (if not substantially better than) Casey Kotchman’s numbers this season.

RC,

My point is that the Braves currently only have three players in the organization (Kotchman, Marek, DeVall) to show for seven players (Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, Jones, Tex, Mahay).

I should have stated that in my response to Different Take. Sorry for the confusion.

(I’ll let the hurtful slight of my algebraic prowess slide…this time.)

By IgCognito

July 29, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

anyone see Casey’s comments (from Sportsline.com):

” “I’m just excited to go to Atlanta and play for (manager) Bobby Cox,” Kotchman said before leaving Fenway Park for the airport. “At the same time, my teammates here, to leave them, I’ll be pulling for them. Other than that, there’s really not a whole lot I can say.”

By 57braves

July 29, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Sure Tex wanted to spend the rest of his career in Atlanta. What a crock! I am certain that if that concept was floated, we would have kept him after giving up the farm for him. BorASS does what he does well and those players that want to turn their career over to him deserve 3 teams in 1 1/2 years.

By Rayman

July 29, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Real easy for Tex to say he wanted to stay here for the rest of his career now that there will not be a contract negotiation to worry about.

He will go to the highest bidder.

Bet on it.

By Thunderdan2000

July 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Folks, come on now! I think we got a great deal out of this. As others have said, this frees up some solid cash flow for next year, and while it feels that they are waving the white flag, Kotchman can come in immediately and play solid D, put wood on the ball and get some timely hits, and maybe, just maybe still salvage what’s left of this season. All of you whining that the Braves got taken are living in la-la land. This isn’t fantasy baseball where you can take your buddy for his stash b/c he knows nothing. GREAT TRADE Mr. Wren!

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

How about this idea: Trade KJ for Micah Owings. They need a second sacker for next season, and we need a power hitting outfielder, who can also be our 5th starter!

Look at Owings numbers extrapolated to 500 AB’s: 22 HR’s, 80 RBI’s, 313 BA, 350 OBP, and 545 SLG%.

We need a powerhitting right-handed bat for left field. Think outside the box Braves, it could work.

Pitch the dude in the 5th position, unless he improved. If he continues to hit, and becomes a .500 pitcher, it is a win win.

(Tongue only halfway planted in cheek….intriguing, no less)

By Lew

July 29, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

We got a slick fielding first baseman who will produce about like LaRoche would have at his best (how many of y’all b!tched he was gone until Tex got there?). He is under contract for at least the next three years, is only going to first year arbitration (maybe not even-I’m not sure since he only has two full seasons), and we will still have about $42 million to spend filling holes.

Trading Kotsay and Ohman will net us even more. I’d say we’ve started to head in the exact direction we need to go. Kotchman may not have been my first choice, but he will do jut fine. Definitely better than two draft picks that may or may not be what Kotchman is or can be-ever.

By Efrim

July 29, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

I like it. Although I wish we could of received a better pitching prospect. Go Braves in 2009….

By Interested Observer

July 29, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Al Hrabosky was talking about the trade on the Cardinals telecast. He said the Angels got the bigger bat and the Braves got the better player.

For whatever that’s worth.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Wren just said of tv that they offered Tex a deal…AT THE BEGINNING of ST.

1) Tex didn’t lie he said season

2) Hello you offered it to him in ST…not during the season after he said he’d like to stay…he didn’t say that in ST.

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Damn. We still have Frenchy.

I’ll miss Tex’s glove for sure. Is Kotchman a comparable defensive player?

By Chop Chop

July 29, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

I saw that Kotchman quote about playing for Bobby Cox.

That goes away after 2009, folks. Whether you like Bobby or not, players love him. Losing him will hurt the Braves in future free-agent negotiations.

By Ron Roberts

July 29, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Guys, we got a quality 1B we have for more than just two months, plus a good young pitcher, in exchange for a guy the Angels only get to keep at 1B for two months, before having to try and re-sign him.

We got about what I thought we’d get.

Now that we’ve addressed one potential hole at 1B for this offseason, we can focus on LF, CF and the rotation.

And we’ll have $30-40 million to address those positions with. We should be major players, this offseason, and with Sabathia, Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell, AJ Burnett (owns his option), Brad Penny and Ben Sheets out there.

Good deal. I’ll take it.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Keith Law’s take:

The Angels get exactly what they needed in Mark Teixeira — an impact bat who’ll add power, patience, and a legitimate threat against the super pitching they’ll face in October.

Teixeira is a true switch-hitter with a great approach who works the count, has power from both sides of the plate, and has no trouble turning on good fastballs or adjusting to good offspeed stuff. The Angels don’t have another hitter in their lineup who comes close to that description, not with Vladimir Guerrero apparently still not 100 percent physically, not with Torii Hunter unwilling to work the count, not with Garret Anderson’s bat slowing noticeably. Teixeira is also a plus glove, which is critical for the Angels, who have built a great run-prevention team with strike-throwing pitchers and good defenders all around the diamond. In exchange, Atlanta gets its first baseman of the immediate future in Casey Kotchman. Kotchman hasn’t performed well this season, but it’s not consistent with what I’ve seen from him in the past. This year, he’s swinging earlier in the count and trying too hard to push the ball to the opposite field. In the past, he was more of a take-and-rake hitter, working the count well, taking his walks, taking advantage of his good hand-eye coordination to make contact, and showing average power. Like Teixeira, he’s a great defender at first base.

The second player going to Atlanta, AA right-hander Stephen Marek, is a live arm attached to a bad body. Given an $800,000 bonus as a draft-and-follow signing, Marek works with a low-90s fastball, a curveball that flashes plus with good bite, and an average changeup that he doesn’t use as often now that he’s working as a reliever. His delivery isn’t smooth and his command is below average, especially of the breaking ball.

By Why Us

July 29, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Hey Tex!

About that offer “that never came”. Are you 100% sure ole Scotty would have told you about one since he’s dead set against taking in season offers for pending free agents?

But then again, if you were looking for an offer why didn’t you speak up & tell the Braves you would willing to consider an offer?

Not sure what to make of that statement but I’m thinking that a good possible response to it might just be BS.

Have fun in Anaheim, wish you the best. Loved your glove & total stats, but sure wished you would’ve showed before July. If the Braves can’t be there, then I wouldn’t mind seeing the Angels win the WS. Certainly don’t want the Yanks, RSox, Mutts or Filthies winning it.

Ta Ta.

By Savannah Guy

July 29, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Did Tex get a parting song?

OK, I guess that was cringe worthy. Sorry. How about this one?

But in all seriousness, best of luck to Mark and a big welcome to Casey.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

bravos2249 Gotta respectfully disagree with your point. While Tex and Boras would have “listened”, the only way a gum-dipped Boras client would have ever signed a contract before filing for free agency, is if the offer would have been MORE than Boras was spouting. EVEN then, I think they would have waited.

So for Tex to suggest he would have looked at offers, after all the posturing this season, is a load of crap.

There have been a few Boras clients who have bucked the “take the cash” approach, but when they spout the party line like Tex did, they don’t go against Boras.

Scott Boras does NOT represent the best interests in his clients. That would mean he would factor in opportunities to go to the WS, fit for a player in the community, etc. Boras goes for top dollar.

By Morticia

July 29, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Chip and Dip just “congratulated” Frank Wren on his wonderful trade today.

By TheBigDawg

July 29, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Wren did a great job! If Conor Jackson wasn’t available, Kotchman was the best player that the Braves could get. Marek will be “Wild Thing” in the ‘pen, but that’s gravy. Teixeria put up huge stats - at the least important times. He’s out in L.A. now with the last Brave who was good at that - Andruw. With the salary savings, let’s hope Wren can get an ace for the rotation over the winter.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Look at the whole picture.

This what the Braves gave up: Salty (1st rounder), Andrus ( amateur free agent), Harrison (3rd rounder, Feliz (amateur free agent), Jones (1st rounder), Mahay ,Teixeira and two 1st round draft picks.

This is what Atlanta got in return: Kotchman (1st rounder), Marek (40th rounder)and Devall (1st rounder).

Thats three players in exchange for N-I-N-E. Two 1st round picks for five 1st round picks.

The Braves GOT H-O-S-E-D, R-A-P-E-D and taken to the damn cleaners. somebody needs to be fired. Immediately.

By THWG

July 29, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah- Good call on getting rid of Kelly for Micah Owings. He is an impressive hitter and I was hoping we could have gotten he and Conor Jackson for Tex, but getting Jackson wasn’t a reality.

Now, let’s get to trading Ohman!

By brian

July 29, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

next up - Ohman. Looks like a much bigger market for our lefty reliever. Hopefully Wren will be able to squeeze out a good return on Ohman.

By RC

July 29, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

No worries Chop Chop. I still disagree that we only have 3 players to show for 7….we only have 3 to show for 5. Mahay and Tex were transition pieces that took us from the prospects in their deal to the players we have today. And we are obviously simplifying it too much, since there were millions of dollars involved as well, but essentially we started out with Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, and Jones and ended up with Kotchman, Marek, and DeVall. It doesn’t matter who we had in between, the starting and ending points are all that matter.

By Michael

July 29, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Yea, I wish we had Salty, what with his .232 BA, and 3 HR in 164 AB; 3 HR in 164 AB in Texas? Wow, I wish we had him so he could start over McCann. Or, wait, no, we should put him at 1st. Um, I’ll take Kotchman. Tex did his job last year, the Braves didn’t make the playoffs. Coach, why do I care where in the draft a player was taken? You take Todd Van Poppel, I’ll take Mike Piazza.

By rainman

July 29, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

heres the way i see it. we are set at c, 1b, 2b, ss, 3b, and rf. our bullpin if healthy will be a plus. i think we have to go hard after dunn to play lf and draw in fans. may be shafer will be ready to play center but i think this has the makings of a good team if healthy that is the big question.

By RC

July 29, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Coach,

Like I was saying earlier, you can’t include Mahay and Tex as players given up and not include them as players acquired. So we either got 5 players for 7, 7 for 9 if you are including the Tex draft picks, or what actually happened, 3 players for 5. To call it 3 for 9 is simply incorrect.

By JJ

July 29, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Wow…..just wow. All you fools thinking they traded nine players for three are just idiots. How about the chance at TWO playoff runs? What is the value of that? It didn’t work out (due to injuries and other externalities) but you can’t act as if it wasn’t part of the equation.

You paid a hefty price for Tex to make a playoff run, it failed and you have to salvage as much as you can out of it now. It’s pretty simple really. IF Kotchman is the best they could get, then it’s a good deal. Last year’s trade has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TRADE!!!!!

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Coach and others who are talking about what we got for our NINE players. Your math sucks. We gave up FIVE, count ‘em, FIVE players for Tex and Mahay.

The idea was to use Tex and Mahay in two pushes for another shot at the World Series. That didn’t work out. There were no guarantees.

So, if you want to criticize Braves management for “going for it” last year, then that is OK. Personally, I prefer a confidence that says, “Heck yes, we are going to go for it!”, especially when we have a shot, which we had last year.

How many of those guys we traded will ever make it to the big leagues and contribute?? Maybe a couple or three of them. Maybe not.

To be honest, what we got for giving up TWO months of Tex, was Kotchman and Marek. We didn’t trade those 5 players for these 2 players. We used Tex and Mahay for a stretch run that didn’t work out.

And how in the hell can you count the two draft picks as players we gave up. Now, to be accurate, you can say we traded two draft picks for Kotchman and Marek. I do that deal every day, and twice on Sunday.

So quityerbitchin and spitting out “facts” that do not resemble the truth. Your statements are a stranger to the truth.

By A-ville Ranger

July 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

A couple of observations.The ESPN guy who said just yesterday The Angels wouldn’t trade Kotchman for Tex wasn’t thinking it through.

Arte Moreno is one of the most aggressive owners in the game.I also feel Angels management believe they can put on a good sales pitch to Tex.

You could look at it as them already having the best record it baseball.If you’re thinking playoffs though Tex in the middle of the lineup had to make them salivate.

From The Bravos end this was a very good move to my way of thinking.Kotchman doesn’t commit errors and he doesn’t strike out.He’s 25, still improving and he’s under control for three more seasons.

As for Marek yes he’s 2 - 6,that’s just surface wash though.He is 24, he has 57 ks in 46.2 innings and he gets lefties out.I’ll take a dozen like that in the system.

By Lee

July 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

For those obsessed with draft picks: Please take the time to go back and look at the first round picks from the last decade and how many of those players even made the majors, much less became impact players. You might be surprised. Even a lot of “can’t miss” prospects fail to pan out (hello Wilson Betemit)

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Coach The Braves GOT H-O-S-E-D, R-A-P-E-D and taken to the damn cleaners. somebody needs to be fired. Immediately.

Maybe I should have just said, “Coach, your fired!”

By DP

July 29, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Coach is hereby assigned to the remedial algebra/logic class with Chop Chop.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Saw this on another blog:

CASEY KOTCHMAN RANKS AMONG 27 MLB FIRST BASEMAN

OBP: 23rd SLG: 19th OPS: 21st RC/27: 23rd ISO: 22nd BB%: 27th LD%: 26th

By fastasballs

July 29, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Who should they fire Coach? Tex was leaving reagrdless at the end of the season. It was either take an established first baseman who is under control for 3 years or a couple of draft picks, who even if they panned out wouldn’t be here for 3-4 seasons.

They gambled with Tex & lost. At the time they were only 3 games back, without a first baseman & had a legit shot at winning the division. At the time it didn’t look like a bad move & you probably didn’t either.

At this point Wren got what he could in a limited trade market for Tex. The team has to go forward regardless of how the Tex deal turned out & quite frankly it’s too early to tell how those prospects traded to Texas will contribute, if ever at the big league level.

By mesmo

July 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

I don’t see how the Braves are going to get better by swapping deluxe players for average players. Outside of Chipper and McCann the Braves have no deluxe players, just a bunch of pretty good hands. Look at the Phillies and Mets, lots of deluxe players.

You don’t win pennants with rookie pitchers, a bullpen full of sore arms, and a lineup of pretty good hands. Let’s face it, it will be quite awhile before the Braves can compete with the leaders of their division. And it will ultimately cost a lot of money just as it is currently costing the top teams.

Just because a guy has some major league talent and is cheap doesn’t mean he can outplay the likes of Chase Utley, David Wright, Henley Ramirez, etc. The Braves are outmanned and there is apparently not the kind of talent in their minor league system they need to compete.

The “Baby Braves” are OK but McCann is the only deluxe player among them. Gotta do better than that.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Wren says Braves made him an offer in spring training and it was rejected, that it would have made Tex “one of the highest paid players.” But he didn’t give any figures.

You guys will love this. Guess where Tex and his wife are going to stay when they get to L.A.? Boras’ guest house. I kid you not.

Boras has a mansion in Newport Beach, if I’m not mistaken.

Anyway, here’s story I just filed. Gonna rewrite for later:

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Not quite a year after they traded for star slugger Mark Teixeira, the Braves exchanged the pending free agent for a scaled-down model of first baseman they can afford to keep a while.

The Braves traded Teixeira to the Los Angeles Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman and minor league reliever Stephen Marek on Tuesday, two days before the non-waiver trade deadline and one day after deciding it was time to turn the page on the team’s disappointing season and focus on the future.

Kotchman, 25, has batted .287 with 24 doubles, 12 home runs and 54 RBIs in 100 games for the Angels, after hitting .296 with 11 homers and 68 RBIs last year in his first full season in 2007.

“This is obviously not the way we wanted the season to end and go forward, but we look at it as building for the future,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said after announcing the trade an hour before Tuesday night’s game against St. Louis at Turner Field.

The Braves also had serious trade discussions about Teixeira with the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Tampa Bay Rays and Arizona Diamondbacks. Wren said Kotchman was the best player offered.

While getting a first baseman in the deal wasn’t a prerequisite, he said it did give an advantage to any team offering a good one.

Teixeira, acquired along with reliever Ron Mahay from Texas in a July 31, 2007 trade that cost the Braves five prospects, hit .295 with 36 doubles, 37 homers and 134 RBI in 157 games for Atlanta, with a .395 on-base percentage and only six errors.

The former Georgia Tech star, who is married to a Georgia native, called the trade “very bittersweet.” “I think I did everything that was asked of me,” Teixeira said while standing at his locker in the Braves clubhouse, wearing a Georgia Tech polo shirt with his bags packed, while his teammates sat nearby in uniform, ready to play the Cardinals.

“I came in here and played good defense and drove in runs,” he said. “Unfortunately, we had so many injuries this year it just didn’t work out. You can’t help that. You really can’t.”

He said he looked forward to joining the Angels, whom he called “the best team in baseball…. I’ve got a flight in the morning, and I’ll be ready to play tomorrow.”

The Braves, after finishing third last season in the National League East, are in fourth place this season, 7-1/2 games behind division leader Philadelphia before Tuesday.

They had a 76-81 record in the games that Teixeira played for them.

Some believe Teixeira, a 28-year-old switch-hitter and two-time American League Gold Glove winner, will command a long-term contract worth at least $20 million annually on the free-agent market.

There are reports that Boras could ask for $23 million annually in a seven- or eight-year deal. Teixeira said he and his wife plan to initially stay in Boras’ guest house in Southern California.

When someone asked Teixeira if he thought the Braves would get involved in a free-agent bidding for his services, he smiled knowingly.

“I would probably say no,” he said. “I thought I’d be here the rest of my career. I really wanted to stay here, but business is business and it’s time for me to move on.”

Teixeira said he had been “open” to hearing offers from the Braves all season, but hadn’t gotten one since the season began.

Wren said the Braves didn’t believe they could afford to re-sign Teixeira after making what the GM called an “aggressive” offer during spring training and having it rejected.

Wren didn’t give figures, but said the offer would have made Teixeira “one of the game’s highest paid players.” He is making $12.5 million this season in his final year of arbitration eligibility.

Wren called Teixeira a “super player and super person” and said any team would like to have individuals like him on it.

“We’re going to miss Mark Teixeira,” he said. “But at the same time, as we plan to improve our ballclub, we feel like we got the best player out there. We’re excited about that.”

Kotchman, a left-handed hitter, is making $1.45 million this season and has three years of arbitration eligibility left before he can become a free agent after the 2011 season.

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

You know things are bad when Omar Infante is batting fifth. He wouldn’t hit in the five-hole in a spring training B game. That’s what that lineup looks like tonight. And the Angels are up 4-0 without Teixeira in the lineup.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves need to hang on to what they have.

All the positions: 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, C (duh), OF…keep them. Maybe center could change (really like Z, but given the injury…you know).

Keep them all! Fix the starting pitching a little bit, and there you go!

BTW

By WKUbrave

July 29, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen what Cincy is looking to trade for Dunn right now?

By The High Cost of Pre-Natal Care, Geriatrics and Preexisting Conditions

July 29, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Wren told Chip and Joe that an offer was made to Tex during spring training. Tex says an offer was never made. Who’s telling the truth?

If they made an offer, why haven’t they told us before now? Was the offer in fact never made? Or did they know their offer was so laughable that they shouldn’t tell people the actual offered terms for fear of looking as out of touch as they have been over the last few years? If they made an offer, did Boras tell Tex as he was ethically obligated to do?

Good trade but they never should have traded him without trying to sign him. Many millions more. Who are they kidding?

By ncscoots

July 29, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Nothing wrong with Kotchman, he’s an OK, young player who might get better (or not, who knows). But he’s certainly not a masher. More Mark Grace than Mark Teixeira. McCann’s power can cover that over with plus offense from C, but you folks who want Johnson in the OF can kiss that baby goodbye. Braves will need an actual thumper in LF, not a 2B.

People tend to forget that this team has most of the same offensive personnel that forged an 800-run offense last year. A big bat to hit cleanup, and some progress from Escobar, Johnson, and Francoeur, and the team could be right back there.

But my fear is that Johnson will be moved for pitching, Blanco and Prado will get 500 AB each, some 20-HR journeyman will play LF, and every bunt-happy, steal-crazed, speed-berserk blogger here will be happy, watching 5-2 losses four times a week. ‘Cause the Braves will have to “manufacture” like maniacs.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

By the way, when someone asked Wren if this was about rebuilding, he was adamant about the Braves not needing to rebuild, that they have a “solid nucleus” in place and can contend next season.

He mentioned Kotchman and Chipper on the corners, McCann, Escobar, Kelly Johnson … and I thought he was going to send a red flag by not mentioning Francoeur.

Alas, he not only mentioned Francoeur, he said, “I’m sure this is an aberration with him, and he’s going to bounce back” in 2009.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, agreed. And as I said all along, I thought Angels or Dodgers made most sense because Boras, who has season tix to both of those teams, has a great relationship with Moreno (they have regular lunches togetherle, I’m told) and probably let him know there’s a good chance the Angels can re-sign him with a competitive offer.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Rainman, you said it. We are set at those postions. Probably set at CF too, with Schafer waiting in the wings. But something tells me the Braves will look for more impact at either 2b/LF/RF in the future. Not that Kelly and Frenchy don’t have bright futures, just a hunch on my part.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

After trading Kotsay (if not traded, then release him) and Ohman; and when Heap gets better, we need to do the following; release Gotay, Norton, Miller, and Tavares.

Leave Sammons on the roster (get him in there every 2-3 days for a while).

Bring up the following positional players: Lillibridge, Anderson, Jones and Perry. Bring up Chuck James and Todd Redmond.

When not playing playoff contending teams, give those players some time. Sit Frenchy (or send him down). Let’s see what these kids can do.

Put Chuck James in the rotation and give Redmond a few starts.

When September rolls around, lets add Medlen, Schafer and Hanson.

Lets get a little preview of what we might have for 2009.

What say ye, my friends? I should be Frank Wren’s “left hand” man!

By N Nine

July 29, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

so the loss of payroll where is it going liberty media??? no TEX—no glavine—no smoltz(might resign)—no hampton—plenty of cheap players we have now.. thats millions that i expect to be spent in off season-that is IF you expect seats somewhat filled next year.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

According to the logic of Wayne the crack smoker, Teixeira and Mahay don’t count because evidently they never played in a Braves uniform.

The future draft picks don’t count either.

Wayne, just go ahead and put a damn gun to your head and get it over with. that would be doing the world a favor.

There is a S-U-C-K-E-R born every minute and Wayne, YOU are that guy.

By justafan

July 29, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Great job Frank Wren! Now continue to get rid of the dead wood .(Frenchy to Royals) Go Braves, a better day is coming.

By fastasballs

July 29, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

I’d love to know what the Braves actually offered Tex. It would probably shut anyone up who thinks the Braves were bring “cheap” again.

I would venture a guess in the 17-18M per season offer. If he’s already making 12.5. Maybe Wren will let out what the offer was one day. Not that it matters, but I’m sure Borras turned his nose up at it & now Tex is playing the victim.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: Any savvy blogger and fan knows you’re correct. Why bother debating a guy who months ago slipped from any remaining position of relevance on the blog? That dude hasn’t had a logical thought since he got all angry about the Braves’ woeful start.

Fire someone! Yeah, whatever.

By Toddlers, Geriatrics & Preexisting Conditions

July 29, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about the rest of your but when a weird, emotionally unstable loner like Cooch starts throwing around words like rape, I start to believe he is admitting to something he has done or wants to do.

Cooch, you need a woman.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

Thank you.

I’m more optimistic about Kotchman because he used to work counts and try to mash the ball. Hope he returns to form now that he’s with a team that believes in big innings.

By Jerry

July 29, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Good for Tex to play with a winner for the rest of the season. He played well for the Braves.

When you evalute the trade to bring Tex to Atlanta, don’t discount the time he spent here. He provided hope for last season, and some thrills this season. He made it fun to go to the park and watch the Braves.

This is entertainment…that why it’s a business.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Ten years from now, we will all look back on the Teixeira fiasco with the exact same derision with which the Len Barker trade is viewed.

By Jerry

July 29, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

If the Braves can get Escobar to hit when Blanco is having a night like tonight, they could really score some runs.

By Robin

July 29, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Alas, he not only mentioned Francoeur, he said, “I’m sure this is an aberration with him, and he’s going to bounce back” in 2009.

He mentioned that up in the booth as well. :( I winced a little too.

Whatever they do next, I wish they’d hang on to Infante. There’s some talent in that guy.

By Salty Dawg

July 29, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

There will likely be strong debate over the outcome of this trade over the next couple of years. Tex is Tex and he will likely continue to put up big numbers in LA and wherever he finally lands. Kotch is a solid replacement at first and has the potential to be a pretty damn good player as he continues to mature. To me the kicker here is the price differential because I don’t see Kotchman as a significant drop off offensively nor defensively from Tex. He is a young guy with a lot of talent, more potential, and a very reasonable price tag for a few years. We definitely need to loosen the purse strings this winter to pick up a legitimate ace to cement the starting rotation, possibly two depending on Huddy’s prognosis. Plus we have glaring needs in the outfield and desperately need a backup catcher. Point is we have a lot of needs, limited funds, and spending the $20M plus that Tex will command is just not good business sense. I say kudos to Wren for making this deal happen. This could be the first step toward a strong team for years to come.

Fearless Prediction: Braves roll off 12 wins in a row to overtake the Mutts and Pharies, meet up with the Angels in the WS, and Kotch hits a walk off bomb in game 7. Hey, anything can happen.

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, your 8:15 hit the nail right on the head. Well said.

By Jeff321

July 29, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Not familiar with Kotchman.. But, am glad the Braves got a decent player. Also, very happy they didn’t package Ohman with Tex. I feel his deal should stand on its own and bring back additional quality talent.

Ya gotta love how Campillo makes these hitters look awful.

By Salty Dawg

July 29, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

When you evalute the trade to bring Tex to Atlanta, don’t discount the time he spent here. He provided hope for last season, and some thrills this season. He made it fun to go to the park and watch the Braves.

He also sold tickets and jerseys. Tex paid for himself, easily. If we gelled last season and went to (or won) the WS people would be talking about what geniuses we have in the front office. In hindsight, it didn’t work out that way. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a smart move at the time. The biggest chip we gave away was Salty, who was blocked by McCann and wasn’t very good at first. It was smart to trade for him and it was smart to trade him away.

By T-Town Mike

July 29, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

With Wren making comments about doing what’s best for the future, I think we can count on seeing Kotsay, Ohman, and maybe some minor leaguers like B Jones being traded, also. Hopefully for pitching. But, the team should also have some cash on hand in the offseason even after the bumps guys on the roster may get next year. I do like the Tex/Kotchman trade though. Even if Kotchman never lives up to his potential it is less than a gamble than draft picks would have been. I think the fact that McCann and Frency came in the same draft and had such positive impact on the club that drafted them in the same year was rare. I doubt the two draft picks the club would have gotten for Tex would have produced in a similar way.

Anyone heard any rumors who the other guys were that had been offred, as Wren said he ‘believes’ Kotchman was the best out there?

By DP

July 29, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah, the Braves can contend in 09 with that kind of “solid nucleus”. It’s exactly what they had this year with Kotchman (whose stats suggest he’s pretty much another Kelly Johnson as a hitter) substituted as a major downgrade from Texeira. And this year’s team hasn’t scored runs. Francouer looks about as ready to break out next year as Andruw Jones did a year ago.

And there’s the need to find virtually an entire starting pitching rotation other than Jurjjens. They have budget to work with but aren’t going to spend what it takes to get a front line pitcher, not that there are many available.

But take it from Braves management, they’re not rebuilding, they’re reloading! Do they really believe such crap? If so, maybe watching this team battle it out for the Nationals for last place in late September will inject a dose of reality. But I doubt it.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

well i dont think we need anymore left handed everyday players.

anyone else wonder what would happen if infnate got to play second base everyday?

i only say that because we really need a middle of the lineup RH outfielder.

By JJMB

July 29, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Great info DOB, as usual. I think once Tex gets a taste of a young millionare’s life in Newport Beach, he’ll never leave. (Although the surfing lineup is choked with rich-kid punks).

By ncscoots

July 29, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

BFIR, you’re correct, in that Kotchman changed his approach somewhat over this season. He may have felt that was more in keeping with the Angels’ style of play. Though had he still been swinging from the heels a little more, he might still be there, LOL. Vlad, Hunter, and Anderson aren’t exactly Murderers’ Row. :-)

Anyhoo…I’m fine with Kotchman, as long as the Braves don’t pencil him in for 30/120 during ST. Make him a complement for run production, and, if he exceeds that, all the better.

By MAV

July 29, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien Nicly said at 8:26.

Coach lives in a world most of us will never know….It’s called fantasy land!

By slugger393

July 29, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

yunel didn’t run the broken bat gb out and held the handle all the way to 1b. how about some fire? lets sign ohman. ohman soriano gonzalez in the pen looks nice for next year… kotchman will help us financially this off season. tex can go get paid elsewhere. bring up hanson and medlin!!!

By beachcomber

July 29, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Way to go Frank Wren! Watched the Kotchman kid play H.S. ball down here in Florida and have followed him since.

Solid kid, solid hitter - will play with a little more intensity than Tex. Braves fans will love him.

By Robert

July 29, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

” saw that Kotchman quote about playing for Bobby Cox.

That goes away after 2009, folks.”

Reading that made me smile

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

DOB

How long is Infante under team control for?

By N Nine

July 29, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

LOL has anyone mentioned anything about tonights game? Campillio!!!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox

28 years as a manager.

15 playoff teams.

One single solitary championship.

Go ahead, defend it O’ Brien, Show us your infinite IQ.

You got nothing.

By Why Us

July 29, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Glad to see that some are thinking of this as a good trade. Much better than 2 draft picks if Tex had stayed.

Also seems some that say the Braves don’t spend enough are crying about this trade. Why? We now have even more to spend this offseason anyway you look at it. First Tex’s 12.5M comes off the books (minus of course what it takes for Kotch’s arby raise). And we’ll also have the millions available it would’ve taken to sign 2 high draft picks who would’nt show up in Atlanta for 5-7 years since the Braves draft HS kids.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Hey, don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned this, but guess who’s another client of Boras? Jair Jurrjens. Hey, he represents a lot of the best players.

(And Boras represents his Curacaco countryman, Andruw).

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Here’s some Kotchman quotes:

“I’m excited to go to Atlanta and play for Bobby Cox,” said Kotchman, a left-hander who was raised in St. Petersburg, Fla, the son of former minor leaguer player and manager Tom Kotchman.

“The Braves are an East Coast, Southern team. Bobby Cox has been there forever. Seeing how he handles players, pulls for them, I’ve got to believe it’s a blessing for me to start a new chapter in Atlanta.”

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

MAV—

I’ve been to Fantasy Land many times. It’s a very fun place.

Coach does not appear to be in a fun place.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Ouch:

The Cubs dropped Grove to the #8 spot in the order.

By doug

July 29, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

8:26 post by DOB, Nice. I bet someone will be havin some posts deleted once their bender gets going.

Sheets and Burrell next year and no Tommy John for Huddy, then everything will work out just fine.

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Someone above [too lazy to go back to see who] compared Kotchman to Mark Grace in ability. I’ll take a Mark Grace type any day. Solid as a rock is a good way to describe Mark Grace. Look forward to seeing Kotch in a Bravos uni!

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 29, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Any hint that the Braves are picking up some of Tex’s remaining contract for ‘08? There had been some rumors to that effect.

By waterst

July 29, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

Three lines of thinking on Frenchie:

1) baseball has figured out how to pitch him 2) it’s just mental 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

We’ve had a lot of injuries over the past three years folks, but I believe there is something to be said for the Marlins way of doing business, although, you obviously can’t build a fan base like that.

By JC from UT

July 29, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

DOB: Are you hearing if anything else is in the works with Ohmam? Also is there a market for Kotsay,when taking his back problems into consideration?

By varoadrunner

July 29, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Seems like their stories vary… Tex and Frank Wren.

Tex says :”*Teixeira said there was time when he would’ve signed a deal with Atlanta and bypassed the possibility of free agency.

“I was always open for it. This whole year I was open for it. But that’s business. It just didn’t work out,” he said. “I loved it here. I really did. I wanted to stay here for the rest of my career”*.

I’d rather have Tex than Kotchman - but Oh Well. Seems our GM has some barungas. Cool

By Salty Dawg

July 29, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Alas, he not only mentioned Francoeur, he said, “I’m sure this is an aberration with him, and he’s going to bounce back” in 2009.

He mentioned that up in the booth as well. :( I winced a little too.

Whatever they do next, I wish they’d hang on to Infante. There’s some talent in that guy.Robin

That really doesn’t mean much. The fact is that Francoeur has ZERO trade value right now, so there really isn’t any reason to try moving him. If spring training rolls around and Frenchy has resolved some of his problems (you can bet he will be working overtime this offseason to get his stock back up) then we have an average to better than average LF. If not, they can try to trade him in ST or send him down. They have no long term commitment at this point. Personally, I agree with Wren that this season is likely an aberration as far as Frenchy is concerned. He may never be a 30/.300 guy, but he is better than he is playing now. Once he gets away from the pressure of the game he will most likely shake the funk in which he finds himself. They would have been better off to let him do that this season instead of calling him up after 3 days. And I can think of at least 3 positions that need more attention than LF, so again, no sense in trying to unload Frenchy now for what little return we would get.

By Supes

July 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

DOB

I watched the TV interview FRANK did, and I had to crindge when he mentioned Jeff as a “cornerstone” type player.

I guess Frank is seeing something NOBODY else that is watching this 2008 Braves team is in Jeff, b/c he has shown nothing worthy of such high praise.

What if Jeff doesn’t “rebound” next year and hits like he’s hitting this year? What then? What will the Braves front office spin be at that time?

Even when Jeff had solid years, they were not “corner stone” type years that made us say, yeah, that guy could carry this team in the future at some point. Jeff’s swing is too inconsistant, and while he’s benefited from hitting with a lot of RISP to reach good RBI numbers, his overall swing has a lot of holes. He’s too aggressive of a hitter and there is too little payoff.

Look at a Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn types…yes they have low batting averages like Jeff, and they fan a lot…but they can hit for power.

With Jeff, we get a low average, decent power (If he finished with 15 or so HR) and that’s about it.

So with all due respect to Mr Wren, I’m going to agree to disagree with his statement about Jeff being someone they can “build around”:look:

Thankfully we’ve got BMac.

On to something positive, I know Jorge just gave up a bomb to Albert…but the guy can pitch. He’s like the poor man version of (in his prime Maddux), and that isn’t bad at all. I’d be glad to have him in the starting rotation next year.

Both him and JJJ have proved that they can be counted on.

At least Frank Wren acknowledged the need for a power hitting outfielder and another top tier starter…something posiitve to take out of his comments after he tried to do the political thing and defend Jeff at all costs (when the numbers in 08 speak otherwise)

By beekay

July 29, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

I like the trade. With JJ and Campillo we have 2 definite starters…Huddy’s injury hurts real bad. Hopefully if has surgery right away he can come back during the All-Star break next year. Smoltz will either be gone or in the pen, Glavine-gone, Hampton possible back end starter if he agrees to a 2 year 6 million deal. That leaves Morton,Reyes,Chucky and maybe Hanson fighting for 2 of the spots. We need a #1 or #2 starter and we should go ahead and offer CC 110 mill for 5 years with the money saved from Tex and Glav. Take the other 15 mill and go after a power hitting left fielder. I like Blanco in center…The pen is set with Gonzo,possibly smoltz, Moylan,Acosta, Boyer,Stockman,soriano and this new cat we just got from the Halo’s

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

DOB-

JJJ/Boras say it aint so

By DP

July 29, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Hey Coach, I can see why you got confused into thinking the Braves gave up 9 for 3. That totals 12 and you’ve only got 10 fingers. Pulling down your pants still leaves you one short. Try taking off your shoes.

By doug

July 29, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Way to go McFann at 8:52, no the guard shack is never a happy place.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Kotchman is left-handed but has hit well against lefties, in fact for a much higher average than against righties. An Angels writer told me he was a bit peeved early on this season when he wasn’t played against some lefties.

He’s hitting .349 (29-for-83) with three homers, a .393 OBP and .566 slugging percentage against lefties this season, and .269 (78-for-290) with nine homers, a .307 OBP and .414 slugging against righties.

Last season it was .315/.378/.397 with no homers in 73 at-bats vs. lefties, and .292/.371/.481 with 11 homers in 370 at-bats against righties.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

Coach, you still have to take into account contracts. I’ve said this several times today: Teams trade contracts, not just players.

If you are going to do your kind of analysis, you also have to evaluate what the Braves are going to do with the money they save by replacing Tex with Kotchman and the extra players it allows them to sign.

And as Wayne correctly points out, you have to include what Tex, Mahay, even Salty contributed to the Braves in addition to the players they received in your imaginary 12-player trade.

But no one evaluates trades this way. You evaluate one trade at a time. Every situation and every season is different. It’s foolish to pretend otherwise.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

When it comes to sheer smarts, talent,education and flat out brilliance, Bobby Cox can’t hold a candle to Tony LaRussa. It’s not even close.

Cox is the most overrated manager in major league history.

Tony LaRussa is the least appreciated and most distinguished. The man has won it all with two different teams in both the A.L and N.L.

It’s like putting a donkey next to a racehorse.

By Salty Dawg

July 29, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

“The Braves are an East Coast, Southern team. Bobby Cox has been there forever. Seeing how he handles players, pulls for them, I’ve got to believe it’s a blessing for me to start a new chapter in Atlanta.”

Yeah, right. Who in their right mind would be happy about going from SoCal to Atlanta.

By YankeeDawg

July 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Yes DOB, I acknowledge you think my handle doesn’t fit, like a hybridhummer. But it’s a long story… What are the chances that we will one day know what Wren offered in the Spring for Tex $ wise. How far off were we? And then of course did Wren even think of taking what the $ amount might be to Liberty and ask for permission to go that high?

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Sure wish we could hang on to Ohman.

By CARTZ

July 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

JUST SAW ON ESPN:

DEAL IN THE WORKS TO SEND KOTSAY TO DBACKS FOR RHP YUSMEIRO PETIT

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Yall watching Lackey’s no-hitter for the Angels? 2 outs in the 8th

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

DOB

Oh boy, after yesterday I really, really didn’t need to read your 8:50. I mean, I woulda skipped it, but you gotta give me a little warning.

Braves are gonna need to go get a clean-up hitter for ‘09. Or maybe Mc can slide in there.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Supes, but you know, about Francoeur: What else is he gonna say. I mean, maybe he feels that way. But if Wren HADN’T said that, after mentioning those other guys, then how glaring and blatant would the omission be?

If the Braves had any thought of trading Francoeur (and I honestly don’t know if they’re considering it), then you certainly wouldn’t want other teams knowing you no longer view him as a cornerstone.

And if they’re even on the fence and hoping Francoeur turns it around, they still need to say what Wren said to make him feel good about his situation, etc.

All I’m saying is, any way you slice it, he pretty much had to include him in that conversation once he went down that road of naming cornerstones.

By MAV

July 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Coach I guess you think the Angels are STUPID as well, because they just gave us a first basemen that could have had for the next few years, for a guy they will ONLY have for 2 months. Think about it. Who got HOSED. I think L.A.

By ncscoots

July 29, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

I can’t help it. I watch Campillo and I can only think of Jorge Sosa’s one-year wonder. I know that’s probably my bias for hard throwers showing up, but there it is. I can’t picture Campillo as a fixture, no matter how much I enjoy watching him pitch this year.

By JEB

July 29, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Well, denizens, we can now turn our attention and suggestion away from first base. Now let’s begin the Ohman chapter of suggestions and thoughts!

By MAV

July 29, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Hey Coach I for got to mention….. YOU’RE AN I-D-I-O-T!

See i can use hyphens too.

By Shamus Thacker

July 29, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Salty Yeah, right. Who in their right mind would be happy about going from SoCal to Atlanta.

Me. Though the “right mind” part is prolly debatable.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Wren said nothing else was close, but only because they had spent so much time on this one. He said that two hours ago; in the interim, they might have gotten close to another deal. Won’t take long once they zero in on teams that won’t Ohman or others.

Ohman really would like to stay here, he said. He loves playing for Cox and the Braves, and said if he hits free agent market he’d definitely consider coming back here.

Of course, he’ll probably get some offers worth $3-4 mill annually. Don’t know if Braves would consider that, but they should, if you ask me. Solid reliever.

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Coach obviously has no where to go to make his argument.

He’s resorted to insulting the one person who could probably kick him off this blog.

Here are some of Marek’s rate/ratio stats:

0.87 HR/9

2.96 BB/9

7.93 K/9

Seems like a live, raw arm that just needs to be harnessed.

Coach, how about you tell us why all those regular season games count so much less than the relative few post-season games. And why don’t you tell us how many managers regarded as pretty good ones, never won that many regular seasons games nor more than one championship?

Why don’t you tell us why Bobby Cox is a major league manager that virtually every player and every baseball insider respects and loves while you coach wherever you coach?

By MGL

July 29, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Coach, you are a flaming idiot. If you made it to the 3rd grade, I’m sure you could not handle the math. Your analysis of the trades has to be the most stupid post I have ever read on any blog. You make no sense whatsoever.

By Harry

July 29, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Good riddance, Tex. Go west and bump fuzzies with Scotty Boras. Take your silent stats with you, as well. For someone with such gaudy numbers, I’m hard pressed to recall a hit that was meaningful.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien is Braveheart. The man is a coward who hides behind his tiny little you know what.

DELETE

DELETE

DELETE

COWARD.

By bfan54

July 29, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

The “Mendoza” line obviously refers to Mario Mendoza, who, ironically dodged the “line” which bears his name by compiling a .204 average in 441 AB’s between 1974 and 1978.

Corky (and I disavow any intention to creat a “Corky” or “Miller” line) is below .100 as I post this. Is there a name for a player who achieves this distinction.

BTW - I was disappointed when Javy was let go, and, admitted, then, that sentiment played a part of it, but I thought then that he was highly serviceable as a backup, was motivated at the time, and probably would find an acceptable level.

The Braves chose “Corky” - and while not a “post hoc, ergo propterea hoc” situation, the season has been a calamity of poor luck AND poor choices. I am not a BC basher, but, quite apart from matters well beyond his control, he has not impressed me in the least, but rather than stand apart from difficulties not of his making, has seemed very much to be part of the problems. I say this with both respect, perspective, and much regret. To paraphrase Cicero, ‘Carthago delenda est’!

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

A woman who works in the Braves’ museum or somewhere over there, had a great line about this year’s rotation. Wish I had thought of it myself:

“Campillo and Jurrjens and call for the surgeons.”

By Savannah Guy

July 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Tex went from damn near worst to way out front first, from NL East to AL West, from Atlanta burbs to a condo in Newport Beach. From 12.5 mil to what… 24 a year when he tests the market? Quite a transition. That’s livin’ large.

And now it’s reported that Jair has Boras as his agent. That’s the worst news I’ve heard today. I’m afraid to ask, but how long do we have Jurry locked up? If he improves even a little bit with experience we need to make him love Atlanta and pay up when it’s time.

By Why Us

July 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now but the Angels, Tex’s new team is taking a NO HITTER (Lackey) into the bottom of the ninth.

Hope he gets it.

By Toddlers, Geriatrics & Preexisting Conditions

July 29, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

THe only thing that ultimately matters when evaluating trades are the production numbers put up in the majors and the bang for the buck given by the players involved in the trades who play in the major leagues.

When evaluating the two trades you have to start with the numbers Tex put up and the numbers Mahay put up here. So far they are off to a huge head start. Kotchman will give them an even bigger head start. Tex’s numbers with the Angels will only slightly discount the value because Kotchman will be producing as well.

Looking at it another way. Last year, the market gave free agents $4 per win above replacement. This year, it was $4.40. The average overall market value the last two seasons has been about $2.1 million per win above replacement paid to players.

The Braves paid Tex about $11.5 million over the last year and paid Mahay about .4 million. We’ll just round it up to $12 million. That means the Braves were looking for about 3 wins above replacement production combined in free agency dollars and/or 6 wins above replacement in overall market dollars out of Mahay and Tex.

According to baseball-reference, Tex gave the Braves 4 batting wins above average. Give him another win above replacement for being a first baseman., He has 5 wins above repacement. Add another half a win to a win for being a good defensive first baseman who saves 5 to 10 runs a year, Tex provided the Braves between 5.5 to 6 wins above replacement. Mahay had a 189 ERA+ in 28 innings, which means he was about 1.2 wins above replacement while a Brave.

Combined, Tex and Mahay gave the Braves about 7 wins above replacement for $12 million dollars. Or in other words, for $12 million dollars, the Braves got about $28 million dollars worth of production in free agency dollars and/or $14 million dollars of production in overall market dollars.

Matt Harrison’s 7.37 ERA in 19.7 innings as a major leaguer thus far is the lone major league production the other teams have gotten out of these Tex trades thus far. Harrison has provided about 0.3 wins below replacement thus far in his career.

That’s right. The Braves have received 7 wins above replacement thus far in these trades. The other teams have received 0.3 wins below replacement thus far in these trades.

These other teams have alot of catching up to do if they want to make up for the major league productivity and bang for the buck gained already by the Braves in these Tex trades.

By Wayne in Utah

July 29, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

A couple of points:

Sign Jair Jurrjens in winter of 2009 to a 6-8 year contract. If not, then trade him a year or two before he becomes a free agent.

Sorry to have rattled your cage Coach, but you asked for it with your stupidity!

Dave: Thanks for the advice, but sometimes it is so fun to stick in the knife, and twist it a little! :-)

You can’t write off a guy like Francoeur after one bad season. You get little for him if you do, and you risk him putting it together for somebody else. Gotta ride it out a while.

I sure would love to see some of our youngsters up here in August and September, to see what they have.

Hang in there Campy!

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

• I thought he was going to send a red flag by not mentioning Francoeur.

Alas, he not only mentioned Francoeur, he said, “I’m sure this is an aberration with him, and he’s going to bounce back” in 2009.*

Or maybe he’s just blowing smoke….we still have 40 some odd hours left before the deadline….mwahahahaha

By Jeff R

July 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Kotchman is a good acquistion. He’s not going to post super numbers, but he’s going to give the team steady production and good defensive play.

Should be interesting to see what Ohman fetches.

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Lackey 1 out in the 9th no hitter intact

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 29, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why the Braves don’t offer Ohman an extension, pronto. I mean the guy has suggested he wants to stay a Brave and doesn’t have an agent named Boras who refuses to negotiate reasonably. Why not make him an offer now?

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

BTW, McFann I love the title of the article you linked. Heap in No Hurry….you don’t say.

: D

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

This is classic: Hudson and Smoltz are going to travel together tomorrow to Birmingham to see Andrews, Smoltz for a scheduled checkup, Hudson to have his worrisome MRI results examined.

When asked if Smoltz was going to fly them up on the jet he charters, Hudson quipped: “If Smoltz wants to fly us, I’ll fly. With our luck, we’d probably go down [crash] somewhere. I’ll make sure I have my parachute.”

By Braveheart

July 29, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

No, sorry, Coach, David O’Brien is not Braveheart.

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if this was mentioned earlier, but didn’t Tom Kotchman (Casey’s dad, I believe) play his college ball at Georgia Southern?

By Shaun

July 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Coach, according to your logic, I suppose Scott Brosius is a better thirdbaseman than Chipper Jones. Brosius won three World Series while Chipper only won one.

Chipper must be the most overrate thirdbaseman in history, right Coach?

By ncscoots

July 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

All I’m saying is, any way you slice it, he pretty much had to include [Francoeur] in that conversation once he went down that road of naming cornerstones.

Exactly. It’s the order of the naming that is probably more significant. A year ago, Francoeur would have probably been mentioned early in that list.

Get the ankle fixed, clean out the head, and change the offseason regimen (I would think). Then, the kid either progresses or he doesn’t, and the Braves can plan accordingly.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Well, the Corkster might not be able to hit, but he can sure play some D!

By Lew

July 29, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Coach-Moronic as ever. You either get the draft choices OR the deal with the Angels-not both. How can you give up something you never had to begin with and won’t have because you took the deal?

I guess Coach would have taken door number one and claimed a loss on his income taxes of doors number two and three. Probably claimed a deduction for the lipstick he gave Monty Hall for the chance to choose, too.

I would have taken the Reds, Man.

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 29, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

* “Campillo and Jurrjens and call for the surgeons.” *

Priceless. She needs to put that on tshirts.

By A-ville Ranger

July 29, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

My gosh, how do let AP beat you by stealing third ? I hate to be a broken record but The Braves are not fundamentally sharp…at all.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

scoots,

must be a jorge thing.

braves still cant do the little things no matter who is in the line up.

escobar has no interest in sacraficing himself.

sorinao looks like has zero interest in being out there.

pujols could of walked to third base.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 29, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Yea Baby !

Tony LaRussa picks the pocket of Bobby Cox just like Charlie Manuel did the other night.

Stealing third base, forcing the error and putting the Braves in the position of losing one more GAME BY ONE RUN. Brilliant managing on the part of Tony LaRussa.

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Is this a good time to complain about Corky? Ehh too easy

By Jeff321

July 29, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

The defensive specialist Corky Miller just lost us the game. Are you happy Cox? Because no one but you would even have this loser on the roster.

I would just like to hear you say Corky Miller sucks. And promptly resign for pushing this nonsense on the loyal Atlanta fans!

By Robert

July 29, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Why is Dorky Miller on this team?

By dwaynerice

July 29, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Pujols hits a double, steals 3rd and comes around to score on an errant throw by our defensive genius, Corky Miller. Congratulations, besides not being able to hit worth s**, you now have probably times as many errors, passed balls, etc. as McCann, in about 1/5 the playing time. Gotta give the Cards credit for an outstanding scouting report on being able to throw on you, not just to be safe at 3rd, but knowing in all liklihood you would throw it away. what was that about keeping you because of your “defensive prowess?” you might be a nice guy, terrific. But you are a p** poor ballplayer.

By dwaynerice

July 29, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Pujols hits a double, steals 3rd and comes around to score on an errant throw by our defensive genius, Corky Miller. Congratulations, besides not being able to hit worth s**, you now have probably times as many errors, passed balls, etc. as McCann, in about 1/5 the playing time. Gotta give the Cards credit for an outstanding scouting report on being able to throw on you, not just to be safe at 3rd, but knowing in all liklihood you would throw it away. what was that about keeping you because of your “defensive prowess?” you might be a nice guy, terrific. But you are a p** poor ballplayer.

By Corky

July 29, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Corky is trying to match his error totals to his hit totals. Horrible excuse for a major leaguer. He should have been the one driving Tex to the airport tonight.

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Kotsay for Petit? Petit has had some pretty good minor league numbers. Not many walks, more than a K per inning. His ERA is a bit high but that could be a PCL thing (lots of hitters’ parks).

Kotsay would be a good 4th outfielder for a contender. He wouldn’t have to play every day; late inning defense; some pinch-hitting. Plus, a free agent at the end of the year.

By Heath

July 29, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

So…Dave. Since we didn’t get pitching for Tex… Here’s a questions:

Assuming that Smoltz, Glavine, and Hudson are out most or all of next year for whatever reason (retirement, injury, etc.)…do the Braves dare try to bring back Hampton if he pitches well the rest of the year? We’d be left with Jair and Jorge…and well…???…

By Anders

July 29, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Tex for Kotchman and some mid range minor league guys?

And you guys have the b*lls to rag on Minaya?

This morning Wren says he has the best player available to trade and is dealing from strength and the best player he’s offered is Kotchman? Kotchman’s strengths are he has three years of control left and doesn’t make much money. That appears to be the desired player tools for Braves management.

BTW- Delgado just hit his 23rd. Apparently Minaya’s geriatric’s can still play this game.

By JC from UT

July 29, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

if jason Bay cannot be aquired, how about signing Pat Burrell in the off season

By flange1

July 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Wow Coach,

Now you are acting like Braveheart and DOB are demons.

In fact, one of the main reasons I read this blog is to read DOB and Braveheart.

If I remember correctly, Braveheart is the MAN that started calling you Cooch.

He told you he could school you on baseball with one at bat.

But of course, you ran away for a couple of days with no response and came back as obnoxious as ever.

Now you are on the Robert kick.

Bobby Cox probably created cancer and caused the 9/11 attacks.

In fact, I have heard from reliable sources that Bobby Cox actually was the guy on the grassy knoll.

You come in and give us “my work is done”.

What work have you ever done here but cause problems and run your retarded big mouth?

None.

oh sorry.

BOOM.

My mistake! I forget that your attention span is shorter than, sorry family blog here, well shorter than a sawed off midget…

Just go away for awhile.

You add nothing here.

Nothing at all….

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

when you’re being pinch hit for by a hitter batting .213 and you aren’t a pitcher you should be ashamed

By northbeach Scott

July 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

NorCal to Atlanta was has been a big downer as well. Seems like a great fit for the trade given the circumstances. The Angels are in a better position to sign Tex to a longer term deal and he will be going to his first playoff. If he helps the Halos win the series, all bets are off on how big that contract will be. Good for Tex.

Glad Wren is dealing with the reality of the situation instead of trying to bandaid things. He did well considering, the situation. Looking forward to an investment in pitching and being right back in the thick of it in 2009.

By Toddlers, Geriatrics & Preexisting Conditions

July 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

I forgot to mention Salty in that last post. Salty has -0.8 batting wins. He gains about .7 wins for being a catcher, !B, DH who has only 350 plate appearances over the last year. That brings him to about -0.1 wins below replacement over the last year. His defense is horrendous. He’s probably cost Texas 0.5 wins with his poor D. That is about -0.6 wins below replacement.

Combined Harrison and Salty have combined for about 1 win below replacement over the last year while Tex and Mahay provided 7 wins above replacement. That means the combo of Tex and Mahay has been 8 wins better than Salty and Harrison thus far.

By TK

July 29, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know where or what Don Baylor is doing??? I wonder if he would come back to the Braves as a hitting coach if management told him he could replace Bobby when he retired? I think Baylor could help Frenchy. No offence to Pendelton but he does not seem to be able to help player’s make adjustments. Every player goes though slumps in a season. Player’s should also have some hot patches. Except for Chipper at the first of the year and Tex & Brian lately I can not think of another player who got hot for any lenght of time. Pendelton could not help AJ last year and has not seemed to help Jeff this year and I think Kelly has taken a step backward. I liked TP as a player….not sure he is the best for the Braves as a batting coach.

By N Nine

July 29, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

very funny on the plane flight! fitting flight for braves 08 season. Our past ace and our current ace.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

NITRAM ODARP.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: I watch Campillo and I can only think of Jorge Sosa’s one-year wonder

I understand the position. Camp came out of no where and it doesn’t seem possible that he could be this good and continue at this level for an extended period of time.
But, there is a huge difference between the two. Camp can make it through the lineup multiple times without melting down and thusly he lasts until later in the game with relatively low pitch counts and few runners on the base paths.
Sosa would go 5 innings, throw 100 pitches, walk the bases loaded inning after inning, and escape by the skin of his teeth. He spent the entire “miracle year” performing miracles, teetering on the edge of oblivion. The following season he fell off the edge and into oblivion.
I think Camp has a better chance of survival. I wouldn’t pencil him in as the #2 or #3 starter for next year, but damnit if he isn’t impressing. 7 innings, 2 runs. I’ll take that from a back end starter. Now this team needs to get another ace. I’d be excited about Sheets or Sabbathia for about 1 year, 3 years max, but I have a hunch they will be seeking Santana/Zito money and that’s scary considering injury history and forecast.

By Robert

July 29, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Cox vs LaRussa - aka Bozo vs Einstein

By dwaynerice

July 29, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Gotta love your last comment DOB!!! but tell me, i am a faithful reader but may have missed it. As often as has been asked on this blog (which rocks) of you, whether you know or have ever asked what it is Corky has or had over any other backup catcher (either in the organization or not, one we could acquire), what has been or is the answer, pray tell?

By Renegator

July 29, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Just in this game

Escobar can’t get a bunt down to move a runner into scoring position. Soriano completely ignores Pujols at second and allows him to steal 3rd. Corky (why is he even on a major league roster) Miller throws the ball into RF to let the winning run score.

Who is teaching this team fundamentals? I mean this is absurd. Do we not hold the coaching staff accountable for this miserable execution of basic baseball fundamentals?

Someone, please defend this team’s udder failure of executing simple baseball fundamentals that are taught at the little league level. This has been a re-occuring theme for several years now. Where is the accoutability from either the players or the coaching staff?

On a side note, does anyone actually think they can come back from this one run deficit. I mean, lets be honest - there is no fight in this team. This game is already over.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

I know Frenchy didn’t get a hit in that at bat, but it may have been his greatest at bat of the year. His mentality was to go to the opposite way, he didn’t chase the high fastball, nor did he chase the sliders off the plate. But damn prado, and Gotay failed to deliver.

By Billy (TBFnB)

July 29, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Tex had the numbers obviously but he did not appear to be a clutch player. But I dont see many games anymore. I’m glad he gone and we recieved something in return…unlike AJ.

By Goodoleboy58

July 29, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Kotchman please hurry to the ATL we need a glove at 1B

By A-ville Ranger

July 29, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

NCscoots,Other than both speaking Spanish and being pitchers Jorge Sosa has little similarity to Campillo.

My god another bad throw,I call’s em like I see’s em.This team is very,very sloppy,that’s always management’s responibility.

By bgvt

July 29, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

I suppose the Angels pick up the remainder of Tex’s $12.5 m for this year and the Braves pick up Kotchman’s salary? If so, the Braves just saved $3.5 million — about what it would take to sign Ohman for a year.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!—

Ha ha! So true…

Glad to read he’s improving—and that they aren’t rushing.

By GeorgetownKid

July 29, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Coach

You are a mean-spirited jerk. And you’re not even clever, you’re just a jerk.

When you’re being rude, at least try to be funny.

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Can’t get a bunt down. Can’t defend a bunt. Can’t throw out a first baseman stealing third. This. Is. Bad.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

you guys need to give coach a pass tonight, he is in mourning.

his fred mcgriff, tom emansky video “play like a pro,” got stuck in his vcr.

no more clever terms like “roll the hole.”

By kirknga

July 29, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Well good-bye to Tex. I like the deal though. I think Kotchman makes the most sense.

I really was having some serious anxiety about seeing something like Thorman/Norton combination at 1 st base, even if it’s a lost season.

You have to like that Kotchman only has 23 k’s the entire season..wow! Also you have to like that he is hitting .293 RISP, including .300 w/bases loaded; .357 RISP and 2 outs!! The Braves need a guy who is a tough out and they got him.

I hope we hang onto and pay to keep Ohman. As we’ve seen, there is no lefthanded bridge to Gonzalez. Ridge is not the answer and Ohman has been the best leftie we’ve had in the pen since Remy.

Even with some expected raises coming to several players, the Braves do have the money to spend on a frontline starter.

I agree with those who say that a frontline starter is now the Braves priority. I know we’re waiting for Dr. Andrews’ report, but the way the season has gone, I wouldn’t expect good news.

It’s a melancholy day, but with a big glimmer of hope on the horizon.

By Steve from OH

July 29, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Typical Coach Post:

1. Insult one or more bloggers while hiding behind a screen name.

2. Reduce an assortment of baseball plays from a variety of complex factors to a simple “Bobby Cox is stupid (or other adjective of choice).”

3. Insult more bloggers. Insult DOB.

4. Assert the correctness of your own post.

5. Criticize every baseball person within the organization.

6. Top it all off with onomatopoeia of choice, followed by another assertion of the foolishness of Bobby Cox/Frank Wren/random Braves player.

What do you have? An angry, possibly drunk, little man hiding behind a screen name on an internet forum who must validate himself with arrogant assertions of “truth” while somehow taking offense to any and every post with an opinion diffent from his own.

Am I in the ballpark?

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Man Tony Larrusa has this cardinal team looking sharp no wonder they’ve played so good this year. Thank god the braves will have a different 1B tomorrow. The problem with the Braves lineup now that they got casey is that they add another lefty to the mix, but he hits lefty’s well as kelly and Mac do.

By Kashi

July 29, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you hate Boras or what? I always read negative comments about Boras from you. So what do you you saying….we won’t afford to give JJ or even if we offered him it will be a laughable offer? I WANT TO KNOW WHAT FRANK WREN OFFERED TO TEX. If is it 18M and it was turned down, WHY THE HELL HE DIDN’T COME BACK TO TEX AND ASK WOULD YOU CONSIDER OUR SPRING TRAINNING OFFER BEFORE THE DEADLINE? I bet Tex would give it a thought because he didn’t had a great year as he thought during spring trainning. THIS IS A BS BUSSINESS BRAVES ARE DOING. You don’t start a conversation with your player and just go blah blah on media that Tex will NOT resing with Braves. SHUUUUUUT up. I hate it the way Braves are conducting their business…at least he could have conversation with TEX before the the trade talks. “…From now on never draft or trade Boras client to our organization cuz DOB says we won’t be able to afford them…or resign them”. Bullshiiiiiiiit!

By TexasBrave

July 29, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Man Skip just said that he has been on the wagon for more than a year, but these games are beginning to test me.

Funny

I guess the Braves would cause just about anybody to drink. Pass the bottle!!

By brian

July 29, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

looks like the Dodgers are trying to obtain a utility player who can fill in at SS while awaiting Furcal’s return. I wonder what they may offer up for Infante. Infante though has shown the Braves how valuable he is. He has been huge for the Braves this year

By texmex

July 29, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

any news on whether the braves are still trying to get jason bay? they need someone like bay for the future now that tex is gone and chipper is not getting any younger - i like the tex trade i just hope wren can pull something off for bay and hopefuly get sheets in the offseason

By kreedham

July 29, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

I knew Casey’s dad in college. He played at Georgia Southern in the early 70”s for Ron Polk. We tried to get him to join my fraternity but he never did but he remained our friend. Good Guy! He was drafted and played awhile before managing. I know he managed Macon 1 year (I think it was a Cardinals farm club then). Welcome to Atlanta, Casey and tell your dad hello!

By Supes

July 29, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Anders I will hold you accountable to SHOW UP here and comment IF your NY METS choke again.

Enjoy it while it’s good.

BTW…How do you know if this deal is a “bad deal” for the Braves? Aren’t you supposed to wait a year or two before you declare it a bad move? For all we know TEX doesn’t sign with the Angels, and all they get is 2 draft picks.

While Casey is better than average, he isn’t in the all star caliber type player yet, but he is only 25 years old. He has upside and has steadily improved year to year…while making very little money.

Ask yourself this…your mighty NY Mets are fighting for the NL East with what…how much of a payroll…and look at the FLA Marlins with a bunch of “Casey Kotchman” types on their team, good young players who are all relatively cheap are COMPETEING right with your NY METS.

So please don’t come in here and tell me how bad of a GM Frank Wren is.

Give it some time.

Meanwhile…Delgado has been excellent of late, but it doesn’t dimish the fact that YOUR GM sells the farm for overpriced and over the hill mercs who just wanna get paid.

DOB

On second thought, after reading your response, you seem to be correct sir. It appears that Frank was cornered into including Jeff into that group. He was being very careful with all of his words, not to tip his hand, etc about who is available and who isn’t.

Personally, I don’t see Jeff as a “none tradable” building block for the future, and wheather Frank Wren feels this way or not, he shouldn’t say it in public on TV.

I’m letting my frustartion with Jeff’s lack of production cloud my judgement.

On, and why is everyone pilling on Coach?

If you look carefully, he does have (some) good things to say. I just dislike how quickly people can turn on and just pile on a fellow Braves fan (and yes, he is a Braves fan, right?) It’d be different if that no good Sniper shows up, pile on all you want (No offense Anders, but Mets fans are still not officially welcomed here!)

By Greg

July 29, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Question for all denizens: Is this now the worst team in the Majors? I mean we’re now batting our pinch hitter at clean up.

Without Chipper and McCain, I say the Atlanta Braves are now the worst team in the Majors. I also believe it will take five to 10 years before this team can compete again.

For those of you who don’t remember, the mid-80s team was worse than this one, but this is looking really bad.

By Braveheart

July 29, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Roll the ahole

By ncscoots

July 29, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

But, there is a huge difference between [Campillo and Sosa] the two.

Oh, heck, yeah, I didn’t mean to imply anything otherwise, LOL. I’m just leery of 30-year-old-rookie soft-tossers becoming mainstays. Doesn’t mean that Campillo couldn’t be the exception to the rule, but you have people here penciling the guy in for 18 wins next year. I find that kind of confidence, at this stage, a wee bit optimistic.

The Braves, in fact, could be above average from the middle to the back of the rotation next year. Jurrjens, Reyes, Morton, Lerew, and, yes, Campillo, filling up 3 to 5 ought to be pretty good. Force any of those guys to the top of the rotation, and not quite so strong. Does that sound like any of the conversations you and I had last offseason, LOL?

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

What’s the ERA of the bulpen this last 3 games I bet you it’s over 15 or something.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

doug—

Thanks.

Yeah, Coach is a little to uh…unhappy to be in Fantasy Land…

By StingerSplash

July 29, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Forget about catching the Phils, Muts and Bait. Braves better worry about not getting caught by the Sand Gnationals at the rate the Braves are going.

By Reid in EAV

July 29, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Coach, you keep talking and all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH. Please advise the little league which employs you so I can keep my kids out of it.

I thing the Tex deal was a good one, given the circumstances. I didn’t think the Halos would part with Kotchman given all the organizatinal ties.

I’ll keep tabs on the Bravos but I think I’m a Rays fan the rest of the way. Why aren’t there more of their games on the national broadcasts?

By JB

July 29, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Anders is back. Mets must have won today.

By McFann O

July 29, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Well, this could be a rally…

Gotta go! Night, all!

By N Nine

July 29, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

corky .096—good work

By keylargo

July 29, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

This game can be analyzed by Blanco being 4 for 4 and followed by an 0 for 5 by Escobar and a 1 for 5 by Kotsay.

You have to move those guys along with CJ and BMac out and Tex gone.

By Robin

July 29, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Another ugly loss. : (

By AP Report

July 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

B-L-O-G B-U-S-T-E-R TRADE

Mets Blog get Coach(alias 1) Coach(alias 2) Coach(alias 3) Coach(alias 4) Coach(alias 5-9)

DOB Blog gets

Sniper

Consensus is well worth it considering

By dwaynerice

July 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Tomas, if Kotchman hits left handed but hits lefties well, let’s not hold our breath..Bobby might very well platoon him. It’s not a lefty/righty thing, so it calls for a platoon. Seems perfect to me. lol being sarcastic

By Justo

July 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

I think who the braves also need to trade is for sure Chipper Jones. Like the guy, good ball player, great hitter but he is clearly breaking down in my opinion. I trade his a* in the offseason and get what I can for him.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 29, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Kashi

Stick to cereal. That thread made no sense.

Supes

Anders should be more worried about Maine’s arm than our trade for a 1B.

Greg

Not sure if they are the worst. But there are definitely more disappointed fans out there in other cities. Cleveland, Colorado, Detroit, among them. Mariners are the worst team in MLB imo with a tip o’ the cap to the Nats (although they kicked our arse recently so what does that tell ya).

Apples and oranges to compare the plight of the current Braves to the mid-80s teams. Our team is ravaged by injuries - those guys weren’t and still stunk. With the possible exception of Rick Mahler (who was terribly underrated in his day), there were no starters for years on those mid-80s teams that came close to the talent of JJ.

By Anders

July 29, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

From DOB’s 8:52 post:

*“I’m excited to go to Atlanta and play for Bobby Cox,” said Kotchman, a left-hander who was raised in St. Petersburg, Fla, the son of former minor leaguer player and manager Tom Kotchman.

“The Braves are an East Coast, Southern team. Bobby Cox has been there forever. Seeing how he handles players, pulls for them, I’ve got to believe it’s a blessing for me to start a new chapter in Atlanta.”*

OK let’s review. He’s leaving a team that’s basically locked up a playoff spot, that’s located in one of the nicest areas of the country, is loaded with talent, has rabid fans and an owner who is the Steinbrenner of the new millenium when it comes to spending money to go to a team that will most likely play .400 baseball the rest of the way and will only spend the third most money in their division. Come on. Listen, I truly believe players respect Cox and all but Soscia is no slouch to play for either. What else is the guy gonna say, but why report this drivel? We all know Kotchman’s gonna stare at the ceiling when he goes to bed tonight and think about what could have been.

By kirknga

July 29, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Greg

Heck no! This is not the worst team in the majors. The pitching has disappeared, separate and apart from Hudson, but I would expect it to return to a much better level than it has shown to start the second half.

We can expect, base on his career track record, for Hampton to improve. If he remains healthy, he will help ease the absence of Hudson. We still have JJ, Campillo is still on a run(though it is not the best option to pencil him in a rotation spot next year yet), so that is 3 serviceable to good starters.

That’s 3 good chances to win or be in games through your rotation. Bad teams don’t tend to have 3 good chances in their rotation.

Chipper and McCann will return, and the new guy is pretty good as well. Add to them an ever intriguing Blanco,Escobar, and a healthy Kotsay and you’ve got a good line up,not great, not powerful, but good.

We should be ok at the back end of the pen, but what comes before those two guys is scary right now. We need to get Acosta healthy and back in there. He certainly was better than a couple of guys we’ve got now. Boyer needs rest, but he’s going to be good if his arm isn’t hurting.

No, this isn’t the worst team.

By Andy

July 29, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I hope that Furcal can get back to health. I wonder if he would be an option to play the outfield for us next year? Playing cf could help him stay healthy…Furcal leading off would give us the dynamic top of the order that we have been lacking. Blanco is okay, but I just don’t see him as a stalwart option. I am really looking forward to Heyward getting up here. I also hope that Schafer can get his act together. Please just deal frenchy to the royals for greinke. After jurrjens, we just have ?’s. I love campillo, but we shall see. I do think we will absolutely need to sign a fa sp. Derek Lowe? I would love sheets or sabathia, but we are cheap. Even lowe isn’t cheap. We are never players in the fa market hardly ever, anyway.

By northbeach Scott

July 29, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Yhe Braves are officially in the race … for #1 overall pick in the 2009 amateur draft. I think we have a heck of a chance to compete with the Nats, Mariners and Indians. Go Braves!

By northbeach Scott

July 29, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Yhe Braves are officially in the race … for #1 overall pick in the 2009 amateur draft. I think we have a heck of a chance to compete with the Nats, Mariners and Indians. Go Braves!

By SNIPER-69

July 29, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

It’s back to the 80’s for the braves. Many forget how awful they were before their run. I see many of the regulars are absent from the blog. That could only mean one thing…….LETS GO METS!!

By Supes

July 29, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

JB

Yeah, Mets won again and Delgado hit a run shot late in that game, hence why he brought it up.

Don’t expect any Mets fans to be here if they choke away the NL East again in September.

By brian

July 29, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

I still have not figured out why someone hitting 0.096 is still in the major leagues at the end of July. It is not as if he is the end all defensive catcher either.

Remind me why we released Bryan Pena and kept Miller.

I have to think there may be a roster spot for Sammons next year

By InCognito

July 29, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, why noy take it to the deasline to see if someone increased their offer? I doubt the Halos would have pulled their offer.

By DAP

July 29, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

is it just me, or has coach recently become a fan of whoever the braves are playing that night? youre nothing but a troll at this point, coach.

i would have liked to have gotten more for tex, but were werent gonna get loney, and we werent gonna get connor jackson. i like kotchman better than tracy at least. to me, the most dissapointing part is the minor leaguer we got as well. i thought we would be able to get kotchman and a couple of prospects at least.

By Anders

July 29, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Supes and JB

I was here all winter after the historic collpase so I’m not sure what either of you are talking about. I’m here more than most. I even made a point of posting the day after the Mets collapsed against the Phils last week just so guys like you couldn’t accuse me of ducking the blog after big losses.

I wasn’t here lately because I was up in Boston over the weekend at the Yanks/Sox series and in the twin cities the last two days on business. Now there’s a town that knows how to run a small market team. I have the utmost respect for that organization.

By bravos2249

July 29, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Someone needs to inform B. Olney that Wren said there was a big market for him

By TNJeff

July 29, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Is anyone else sick of seeing Kotsay pop up to left - he is definitely not the answer in center.

Other holes to fill - Right field / 2nd base / 1st base / back-up catcher who can either hit or play defense since Cox’s pet can’t do either currently / 3 starting pitchers & relief pitching core

By Flower Man

July 29, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Well I see the Braves have taken another step in their attempt to overtake the Nats. I didn’t expect much from them tonight, but a little effort would have been nice.

To this point I think Wren has done a good job as GM, but every single time I see Corky Miller’s name on this roster I shake my head. He has no business in the big leagues, hell maybe any league for that matter.

This team has been littered with guys on the bench who didn’t belong in the majors. Is that from Cox’s pull or the front office being cheap? No sane group of baseball people would agree to have the likes of Orr, Woodward, Miller, etc on the Braves roster for the entire season, would they?

Regarding Frenchy, you can’t expect Wren to throw the guy under the bus do you? If he is viewed as a “cornerstone of the franchise”, then this team has a lot more problems than I thought. I have no doubt a lot was expected of him this season & rightfully so, but plans change & quickly.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

that’s located in one of the nicest areas of the country

Bit of an over statement there. The weather is favorable, but the surroundings aren’t that pleasant unless you like Concrete, asphalt, metal, dirt, a palm tree, stucco, and more contrete.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Let’s review Frank Wren’s trades orfree agent signings since he become the GM:

• ¡Jair Jurrjens, and Gorky’s Hernandez for Renteria! Superb……

• Will Ohman and Omar Infante for Jose Ascanio. Superb…..

• Signing Tom Glavine to 6 million dollar deal. Doubtfull…..

No offence to Tommy but he is old, the braves were just asking for their pitchers to get injured when they had 2 pitchers over 40 and one over 35.

• Mark Kotsay for Joey Devine.

Bad….

Devine has a lot of talent, and if you would have added him to that bulpen they might have been better off. Everybody knew Kotsay’s back was an issue, and frankly he was not worth giving up Joey Devine. Granted he didn’t know Blanco would have been this good.

• Adquisitions of Norton and Gotay.

Horrible…..

Sorry for being honest but Norton and Gotay are pathetic.

• Adquiring Julian Tavarez.

Good….

He hasn’t been as bad as I thought, and they did need a veteran reliever in that bulpen.

• Mark Texeira for Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek.

Good…..

It beats the hell out of chad tracy and Micah Owings, but I would have demanded Brandon Wood to be in the deal instead of Marek. But it’s a good trade I don’t know if the angels would have included Wood in the deal, and I hear Marek has closer stuff so it’s a good trade. Good

By kirknga

July 29, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Anders

I think the reason you report it is because it shows that the guy at least has enough sense not to alienate his now manager and teammates.

How many times have we’ve seen players traded and they bash somebody, or say something less than enthusiastic?

He could’ve said nothing, and tongues would’ve wagged and questioned if he was feeling sorry for himself now that he left a contending team to come to one that isn’t at the moment.

But he found something positive to say that will ease his transition to his new team and maybe gave his new teammates a little lift by coming in positive instead of suspect.

By Supes

July 29, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Sniper

I don’t remember the 80’s will you remind me what it was all about?:smirk:

On second thought, it’s OK. Your NY Mets aren’t running away with it, beware the Phillies and Marlins. It’ll go down to the end, and we know how well your NY Mets handle pressure?

Anders

I said I better see you blogging if your Mets choke again this year. That’s all sir. No selective “appearances” allowed by other team’s fans on the Braves blog, right?

Nothing more low class than showing up when your team wins to tease the fans of the team that is just drowning right now.

Well, I know the pen blew it today, but I believe it’ll be interesting to see how September will shape up. I’m conceding August for sure. Curious to see some of the young players get their chance to play, to see if Chipper can stay healthy and contend for the battling title again, will JJJ get to 15 wins in his first year as a Brave? There are some positive things to look forward to, as well as how does Casey do with the 2 months remaining as a Brave.

I hope the Braves approach August/Sept as a 2 month audition/stepping block for 2009 season.

DOB any reason why Clint Sammons wasn’t catching tonight, other than maybe Bobby wanted him to sit or wanted Miller to catch Campillo?

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: A black cat went past us and then I saw another that looked just like it.

By Anders

July 29, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul

Bit of an over statement there. The weather is favorable, but the surroundings aren’t that pleasant unless you like Concrete, asphalt, metal, dirt, a palm tree, stucco, and more contrete

You realize that the players don’t live in RV’s in the stadium parking lot- right? Trust me, I’ve been there and there are more than a few incredibly upscale neighborhoods in the area.

BTW-John Heyman just reported about a 50% chance the Phils and Red Sox make a Manny deal and it’s heating up.- Wow! Him hitting in that ban box is a scary thought.

Hmm. Wonder if Wren should have sat tight to see if some three way deal could have been brokered to bring back more than Kotchman? Just a thought. Then again I suggested Wren publicly shake the trees three weeks ago when DOB told me I don’t know what I’m talking about - again.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

60 % of braves trades have been good. And hopefully he can get some young talent from Ohman and Kotsay.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

I expect Kotsay and Ohman to be dealt in the next 36 hours. No reason to keep them.

I’m sure we won’t get anything much in return for them though. Similar to Marek. Minor league pitchers with decent shots at being okay in the bigs. But why not just keep Ohman and take the supp draft pick? I’d rather draft a kid like Devall and develop him in our system.

By Braves blow now for sure

July 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Maybe they will trade JF next (fingers crossed)

By Anders

July 29, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Supes

Ay ay Captain.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

over or under 90 losses for the season?

i think we are going over, somewhere in the vicinity of 69-93.

the braves have not been able to do the little things for the last 3 or 4 years.

THIS FRANCHISE has been rotting from the inside for a while. ever since AOL cut the minor league budget it was only a matter of time before the creaks started to show.

we have mediocre players, that really lack some basic fundamentals.

somehere in the minors they are not getting what they need.

then again we have a AA manager that crawls around the mound and throws fake hand grenades.

gotta pay people to get quality results.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Anders: you don’t. again.

By Greg in TN

July 29, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

I say we forklift the cow off and replace it with Knock-A-Homa’s teepee pronto. A season of ridiculous amounts of injuries just gets better. Hudson going on the DL is bad enough, but now he may miss ‘09 which really puts the franchise behind the 8-ball.

So long Mark T and good luck out on the west coast. I’m really disappointed things didn’t work out, but it happens. Tex did everything asked of him and is a class act. He said all the right things today in wanting to stay and all, but realistically, his tenure with the club wouldn’t have lasted beyond this year.

Having said that, I like the Kotchman trade. Not sure how Marek will fare, but it sounds like Chuck James with a little more zip on the heater and it sounds like he does a better job of missing bats.

Another night to forget at the ‘ol ballpark. Looks like we have more in store before the curtain falls on the 2008. Really hope the news on Huddy’s trip to Birmingham is better than what it likely will be. I am sure there are fine folks there and there’s lots to see and do, but it’s the last place in the world that pitchers want to go during the season, well, unless you’re playing for or against the Barons that night.

By N Nine

July 29, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

new season high! 8 1/2 back new season low cork’s BA! ..096

best wishes huddy

By Anders

July 29, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Supes

Nothing more low class than showing up when your team wins to tease the fans of the team that is just drowning right now.

Actually there is. How about how quickly the Brave faithful have turned on Golden local boy Frenchy? Or the way many now didn’t see Tex as the answer anymore when it became apparent the Braves were done and he wasn’t re-signing? Suddenly he was viewed as a compiler but not clutch or a winner -pretty self serving stuff.

For the record I’m here more than you so perhaps that’s why you view my being here as me just parachuting in to tease.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Kashi, actually I get along fine with Boras. Haven’t spoken with him in a while, because Braves haven’t had negotiations with any of his clients since Andruw left. But I usually enjoy conversations with him (when he’s not cursing at me about something I wrote). He’s usually got something interesting to say, and says it with conviction, to say the least.

But he can be hellish for any team not willing to spend money for top free-agent talent, or pending free agents. (A team like, say, the Braves post-Ted Turner.)

By Drummerdad

July 29, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Vinny and Guido were contacted to do something about Scott Boras. But we found out that he’s their agent too.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

Supes: Cox had no plans to catch Sammons every day while McCann is out. (I would, but I don’t make the decisions.) I asked yesterday and he said no, he wasn’t going to catch him most or every day. Don’t know if he plans to alternate them or have Corky do most of the catching or not; he wouldn’t say.

By the way, McCann could miss most or all of the homestand. Probably not just a few games, as originally thought.

By brian

July 29, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

DOB - how could you possibly say Anders does not know what he is talking about? He won his fantasy league the past 2 years.

By brian

July 29, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

DOB - how could you possibly say Anders does not know what he is talking about? He won his fantasy league the past 2 years.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN: How ‘bout pulling it down like the Saddam statue? That’d be kinda cool.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

Red Sox seem like a great fit for Ohman. So do about 10 other teams. Do you think the Braves can get a minor leaguer better than Marek for Ohman?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

bravos2249,

I heard Olney too. I wonder if ESPN had a production meeting last week and decided that if Tex was traded, no matter what the return, their on-air talent was going to rip the Braves for doing it?

Look, the deal for Tex did not accomplish its immediate goal — get the Braves into the playoffs. Once it became obvious that it wouldn’t happen in ‘09, you adjust.

I think Wren did fine under the circumstances.

And if the Angels don’t win the World Series, was it then a mistake to acquire Tex? We’ll never hear that on ESPN.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

By the way, it wouldn’t be surprising if Ohman left town with the Cardinals after Thursday’s game. They’d like to trade for him. But Braves will probably take that one up to the deadline, trying to get best possibly deal. Yankees have also called, and a few other teams I’m told, but not certain who.

By Robert

July 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

“THIS FRANCHISE has been rotting from the inside for a while”

Yup. Because for going on fifteen years the front office has insisted on using the team’s single fatal flaw as its very foundation.

No matter what has happened, the Braves have held firm behind Bobby Cox as manager.

It cant work out well when you build and mold the entire operation around a totally dysfunctional and incompetent entity.

It is one thing to have players that just arent that skilled or talented. But that’s not the issue here.

WATCH this team play (if you can bear to). They are totally uninspired, and as a team their fundamentals are god-awful.

This has gone beyond being an embarrasment or a laughinstock. The product on the field these days is a DISGRACE.

And when was it, yesterday(?) that DOB quoted Cox as saying something on the order of “What can you say to them at this point?”

That’s it right there. Cox has NO IDEA WHAT TO DO. He doesnt know where to start.

Totally, utterly, shamefully, and disgracefully - IN-frickin-COMPETENT

If the Braves played in Japan, the front office wouldve long ago insisted that Cox fall on his sword.

I expect that pretty soon fans will start showing up with bags over their heads.

I’m to the point where it’s so frickin insanely whatever that it’s just funny

Manager of the Century - First ballot HOFer.

Unbelievable

What will it take to hold Bobby Cox accountable?

By Goat Horns

July 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if anyone has noticed but Frenchy has taken a very nice approach at the plate the last two games.

He is staying on the ball longer and looks as if he is intentionally trying to stay inside the ball.

This will cause him to get jammed by some inside pitches but he will benefit greatly in the long run if he just stays with it.

The rookie catcher Sammons (sp?) has a nice approach at the plate also.

It turns out he and Frenchy played high school football together. Sammons was the quarterback.

Maybe he will be a good influence on Frenchy!

I wish Sammons caught tonight. I don’t understand why you call him up and then play Corky?

By Anders Mom

July 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Anders, thank God you’re on the blog tonight. It seems that this is the only way to get your attention.

First, did you unpack that inflatable, life size, Mrs. Met doll that was delivered the other day?

Second, go down to the Gristedes and get me some cigarettes and another bottle of gin. Dera boy.

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Goals for the Braves for next year:

• Get an ace caliber pitcher: Ben Sheets, John Lackey, CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Oliver Perez or Andy Pettite. (now that they don’t have the necesity of signing tex they could focus their money on an ace to join Jurrjens and Hudson.

• Get a power right haded bat to play left field: Jason Bay, Conor Jackson, Manny Ramirez, Pat Burrell, or Milton Bradley.

• Get two capable lefty relievers: Will Ohman, Eddie Guardado, Damaso Marte or Jeremy Affeldt.

• Improve the bench: sign Henry Blanco to be the backup catcher, Dallas McPherson to play first and third, and Aaron Miles if they can be obtained cheap. Felipe Lopez, Tadahito Iguchi, Mark Lorreta, Ray Durham, and Mark Grudzielanek can also be in consideration and would dramtically improve the bench.

• Sign Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton but with one year contracts not worth more than a million. Maybe one of those will be able to pitch. But don’t count on them.

If they want to remain competitive with the powerfull phils and the dominating mets.

By kirknga

July 29, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Tomas

I agree with much of your assessment of Wren’s tenure, but I strongly disagree about Glavine, Devine-Kotsay, as well as Gotay and Norton.

Glavine did not have a history of arm problems, so signing him on the cheap..and $6 million is cheap for a starter of his stature…was a great move.

Remember he was not brought back to be an ace. His role was to give innings..quality innings to a rotation that lacked a third starter who could give you those quality innings. So signing Glavine was a great move that didn’t work out. It might still yield some benefit this season, it might not.

On Devine-Kotsay, Devine has his chance to make the team this ST and didn’t. He was outperformed by Boyer, Resop, Moylan, and Acosta.

He’s only pitched well for a little more than 1/2 a season, so let’s see what happens here on out. Also, the Braves got a serviceable CF cheap. Kotsay has been hurt and has missed some critical games just as he was delievering big-time. So it was a good move, though not great, but certainly not a bad move.

Gotay and Norton were solid additions. In fact on tonights telecast, Chip and Joe talked about how much improved the Braves’ bench was compared to previous seasons.

Remember Gotay and Norton have been forced to play larger roles than was the intent. Can’t fault Wren for that.

And you forgot to factor in that Wren didn’t trade away any major prospects last Winter when there were opportunities to do so. He held on to players like Prado, Blanco, Lillbridge, and B Jones who have helped at various points, and in the case of Blanco, done really well.

You also have to figure in that the Braves are in a good position payroll-wise going into this off season, so he didn’t screw that up.

So he’s got a lot to work with tis offseason to fix the Braves and the capacity to do it.

Injuries, have been the Braves’ biggest issue and you can’t fault Wren for that. He’s done a great job coming behind JS.

He had the guts to trade Tex knowing that it has been a long time since the Braves were sellers at the trade deadline. He could’ve shrunk from the challenge, but he brought in a player that made sense, has played well at the major league level.

Oh and Tavarez was a desperation thing.

By Just Heard On ESPN

July 29, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

I just heard a telephone interview with Tex on Sportscenter. Tex sounded exactly how he sounded with the Braves saying, in essence…. that he was going to the LAA to win and when he was asked about free agency he said he would worry about that in the off season. He didn’t sound the least bit open to listening to offers until then.

Now that is the Tex I’ve heard most of this season. He didn’t want to talk contract, he would let Boras deal with that.

Does that not sound like Andruw when the Braves wanted to talk contract prior to him reaching free agency? He said Bora would take care of that for him. Thank God the Braves turned their back on that one!

So why is it that Tex doesn’t want to discuss how much he would like to stay in Atl until he’s out the door in Atl?

Boros doesn’t let guys sign deals before or during their FA years, especially those clients who have a belly full of the Boras Kool-aid. Tex staying in Bora’s guest house for a couple of months while he’s in LA? Sound familiar? (A-Rod used to stay in Bora’s guest house until Boras almost screwed the Yankee deal for him)

I liked Tex’s bat and glove. I wish him good luck. But I don’t fault the Braves for making no offers during the season after being rejected in spring training. I never heard Tex EVER say anything in an interview that sounded remotely like he (Boras) was up for listening to any offers until after the season.

By uga-brave

July 29, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

dob,

heard you on 680 just before the trade.

totally agree on the victorino, utley plays. the former just had the worse results.

you also confirmed my thoughts about boyer. heard from more then a couple of people that he has quite a high opinion of himself.

one question, at this point how much say so does bobby have in the trade market? would he or does he have veto power?

By CaliChopper

July 29, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Seeing how Wren couldnt get LA and AZ to play off each other the trade wasn’t bad. I’ve seen Marek with the Quakes, he looked Promising. Whats terrible is Corky at catcher, Molina should have been out and the throw to third was terrible. I understand trading Tex, but have we completely given up on the season…?

By Lew

July 29, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

AP Report-Isn’t that a bit like choosing between a Colonoscopy and a proctological exam? They’re both going to leave your butt aching.

By Robert

July 29, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

You know, this season pretty much anything that couldve gone wrong, has.

And there has been some bad luck played a role in that.

The issue becomes is someone within this franchise capable of entertaining the notion that maybe there’s more to it than that? That maybe there’s more to the story than all the bad luck in baseball somehow pouring itself on one team out of 30?

That maybe what seems at first glance to be just bad luck or cursed fate comes at some level from the team’s whole operating principle being flawed?

Gosh dern it is time to blow the thing to pieces and start fresh - with someone else - ANYONE else as the field general

By Mike

July 29, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

I think it is time to spend some money on free agents folks. For once, I agree with Mark Bradley. Braves need to let it go and spend some money this winter. Can we not trade the likes of Tommy Hanson, Jordan Schafer, Gorkys Hernandez, Julio Teheran, Freddie Freeman, or Jason Heyward for quick one year fixes. Heck, even 18 month fixes.

It is a shame Pat Burrell is such a god awful fielder. Same with Adam Dunn.

That said, I hope the Braves peak into Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez this winter.

Especially Perez. 4 years and 52 million for Oliver? I’d consider it.

By MBPelican

July 29, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

lets look for Ohman to TB for Wade Davis

By Anders

July 29, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Bravesfaninrockies

I heard Olney too. I wonder if ESPN had a production meeting last week and decided that if Tex was traded, no matter what the return, their on-air talent was going to rip the Braves for doing it?

Yep, just like the meeting they had back at the end of spring training when they all decided to pick the Braves to win the division and many on here were sending bouquets up to Bristol.

And if the Angels don’t win the World Series, was it then a mistake to acquire Tex? We’ll never hear that on ESPN.

Nope, this is low risk for the Angels because they fully intend to sign Tex long term anyway. Moreno will not be outbid this time.

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Anders: Trust me, I’ve been there

Oooooh OK.

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Chipper and Smoltz were talking about being sellers for the first time in their careers with Braves. When someone mentioned 1990 (Murphy) to Smoltz, he said, “Not even close” to this situation, because Braves weren’t supposed to be any good that year and were never in it.

“This is the first time,” he said. “And you kind of understand [the moves]. It’s just been a horribly unlucky year.”

By Berryhill

July 29, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Anders

After seeing your posts here, your omniscience is apparent …congratulations.

Now there’s a town that knows how to run a small market team. I have the utmost respect for that organization.

How can you have the “utmost respect” for an organization that dumped a soon to be free agent (Santana) for prospects and criticize another team’s decision to do the same thing?

I live in Palmdale, CA (north of LA) and follow the Angels quite closely…..was just surfing around here tonight looking for opinions on Tex. I don’t know about Casey’s “feelings” about playing for the Braves but I’m sure he understands the business. I will say that the guy is a hard worker and still has upside. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Braves had an allstar in ‘10 or ‘11.

Oh, congrats on the Delgado homer. I’m looking forward to seeing my Angels in the Series in October. Sorry your joke of a team won’t be there.

By monty

July 29, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Look for the Braves to do a deal for a very good to excellent starting pitcher, maybe not a number one guy but at least a strong number 2 guy, I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought in 2 new starters via trades. Kelly may be the trade bait.

Surely Wren woukn’t roll the dice on Hampton again would he? Maybe Mike would offer to pitch for free next year.

By Anders Mom

July 29, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Anders, come upstairs and rub my swollen feet. Please.

By Drummerdad

July 29, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Funny how time flies. Just last September I had to put my lovely 12 year old Golden Retriever down. I sat there afterwards with a cigar thinking “man that sure went by fast”. Kind of strange but I’m sitting here after this trade and remembering looking on in disbelief in 1991 with my then 3 year old son as the Braves were going to the World Series. The kid is 20 now and the Braves are back to 1990 status.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Of course it’s Cox’s fault. God hates him and hates the Braves for employing him. I see it all now.

Thank you for explaining it for us.

By flylikeeagle

July 29, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

I’m pretty sad to see Tex to go. I just pray that Kotchman and Marek will do good. Hopefully we get some new pitchers in wintertime or so to offset the injuries bugs we have this year.

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Renegator

I will definitely co-sign with your 9:50 post…This Team flat out Sucks!!! Can’t remember the last time we looked so Inept out there (Offensively and Defensively) I think the 1990 Braves team can whoop the AAA Braves team we have out there now…

By Tomas

July 29, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

kirknga,

I agree with you Wren has done a good job, in fact I think he is a brilliant GM, but they only signed Glavine because the other options we Curt Shilling and Bartolo Colon. The starting pitchers in the FA this year were plain horrible, and the Braves did need a starter, and probobally came up with the best pitcher in the market. But my point being was that Glavine has been on a downward trend since 2006. And when you sign a 42 year old pitcher there’s is always a risk. I means bones won’t be perfect forever. And I heard that the braves benched has improved a lot this year with 37 pinch hits, but thats just because last years bench was plain pathetic. Chris Woodward was awfull, and Thorman never lived up to expectations. I want the bench to be better, to step up in late clutch situations like tonight when gottay and prado failed to bring kelly to the plate. Look at the phillies bench, Greg Dobbs alones has like 25 pinch hits or so. If I’m Wren I sign Blanco who has done a fantastic job for the cubs this year to be the backup catcher, and Dallas Mcpherson who has major league experience and leads the majors with 38 homers and a 298 AVG, I would rather have him than Norton. And I don’t like the Devine for Kotsay deal just because I liked Devine’s stuff a lot and I’m sure he’ll become a great pitcher.

By Anders Mom

July 29, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Son, come up here. There are cockroaches in the cornflakes again.

By Different Take

July 29, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

But no matter what they do this off season, they won’t be the favorite in the division next season. Probably won’t even be favored to finish above third. Whatever. Spend some money, sign Ben Sheets or Oliver Perez.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 29, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Any idea who the Cards might offer in a trade for Ohman?

Or, to put it another way, what are the Braves looking for from any team that Ohman might deliver?

By David O'Brien

July 29, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

uga-brave, Cox doesn’t have veto power in trades. No way.

By Tomahawkin

July 29, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Oh Yeah, Why hasn’t Bobby C. Sent Corky Miller’s Arse Home…? Maybe one of the worst backup catchers to ever dawn a Braves uni…

And Other than Friends and Family of the Braves, Were there any other Braves Fans at the game, Turner Field resembled Busch Stadium South tonight…

It’s gonna get a lot uglier before it gets better…I have a feeling that the Braves are headed for a couple of Lean Years, at least in the forseeable future…

By TennesseePaul

July 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

Berryhill: You’re in the Dale? I’ve got a few friends from out there down here in Long Beach. That’s quite a drive to an Angel game though.

By Steve

July 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

Boras was the main reason Tex is on the move. Tex mentioned that he wanted to finish his career with the Braves. His wife is from Atlanta, they have built a new home in Ga, and Tex was a Ga Tech grad.

The Braves made a decent offer during Spring Training. When Tex let it be known that he was going to try Free Agency- That was That.

So let Boras use his well known bag of tricks, Go to the Mets and yanks get a 18 to 20 Million a year offer and then Boras can play that against the other teams. Let Tex go play in NY or elsewhere. He had a chance to sign with the Braves and be with his wife in their new home but rejected the Braves offer.

By BosnianBaller

July 29, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

I guess this is a good trade,but if you remember in the winter of 06-07 we were not willing to pull the trigger on sending Laroche to the Angels for Kotchman and chone figgins a second baseman that hits leadoff.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Mcpherson leads the minors in homers sorry the mistake.

By Doc Holliday

July 30, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Life is a beetch………..poor Kotchman, one minute he is playing for the best team in baseball, for one of the best managers in the game, with a team with a winning attitude, with destination to the playoffs and maybe a WS ring……….one minute after that, he is on a plane to meet with his new manager…….BOBBY COX………..Oh of course, I forgot about it, everybody player in baseball wants to play for him……….sure TEX would………I mean, TEX must be very angry of leaving Cox behind to go play for Mike Scioscia. Poor Kotchman, he will son become as son of the system, no heart, no fire. Soon “Mr. Clutch” will be known as “Mr. Diazepam” and theyll say things didnt work out as expected…….next!!!

I have noticed some Muts fan is missing me……. he is not mentioning my nickname directly, but he is salivating for me to login. As some bloggers have told you before………..get a live “SNOOPY”.

By kirknga

July 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

Tomas

I agree that Glavine’s ERA has been on an upwards trend, however, what did remain the same was that he was going to give you around 200 innings. It’s the innings and his potential influence on young pitchers as to why he was brought back.

I could agree that it was a bad move if he was going to be a 1 or 2 starter. But last year after Smotlz and Hudon we didn’t have anyone who could give us 200 innings. Glavine fit the bill, he’s a Brave, always will be one, and he came at a budget-friendly price. If he was healthy and on his way to 200 innings I don’t think we would have a disagreement.

I also agree with you in that I want the bench to be effective in late and close situations. But with the regular lineup ineffective in those situations, it’s a little unfair to expect the reserves to compensate.

In Philly, their regular line up excels throughout the entire game. The bench has a lot less pressure on it as a result of the job done by the regulars. It’s much easier to relax and get it done on a winning team like than than on a team like this years edition of the Braves.

You will recall during the winning starek that those acquired by the Braves, no matter how obscure, would tend to do some great things to help the ball club. They rose to the level of the regulars.

The bench is improved, does it really matter why? It’s improved and Wren should get some credit for it I think.

By Anders Mom

July 30, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Anders, I’m scared. There is an illiterate crack smoker on this blog. His name is Tomas.

Come upstairs at once!

By Berryhill

July 30, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Used to get to quite a few games down there when I lived closer in. Been up here about 5 yrs…tough ride down to Anaheim and back anymore. Still make 5 or 6 games a year, though.

By Anders Mom

July 30, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Anders, when are you going to visit your father in prison.

Just because he’s a convicted felon doesn’t mean he’s not your father anymore.

By The Goche

July 30, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

BosnianBaller

I guess this is a good trade,but if you remember in the winter of 06-07 we were not willing to pull the trigger on sending Laroche to the Angels for Kotchman and chone figgins a second baseman that hits leadoff.

I do not remember this story, are you sure you aren’t confusing “not willing to pull the trigger on” with not offering because there is no way in heck the Angels would accept it. I think that might be what you are thinking of because there is not a chance that the Angels would have gone for that.

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

kirknga,

The Braves’ bench is solid because Chip Caray and Joe Simpson said so.

Roll the hole.

Boom.

By StingerSplash

July 30, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

Yeah, the Mets or Phillies get a declining - though still potent - slugger who is lackadaisical if not lackluster in the field, runs out groundballs when he feels like it which is rarer than Chick-Fil-A open on Sundays and takes days off when he feels like it. Let them deal with Manny wanting to be Manny.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

kirknga

The reason I say it’s a bad deal it’s because I think he is a bit overpaid, but they had to give him at least 6 million because the mets were offering him 8 million. And again the bench has been improved but it could even be better. Imagine this bench:

• Dallas Mcpherson( can play third, first, rightfield, and left field and is having a superb year in the minors and will be a free agent after this season)

• Ray Durham( good veteran bat)

• Henry Blanco(great fielder and a much better hitter than Corky)

• Omar Infante(great utility player)

• Martin Prado

Beats there current bench doesn’t it. I’m just saying I want to see a bench that can do even better than the current bench.

By N8

July 30, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

I can understand if some of you really liked Teixeira (I did not), and wanted the Braves to re-sign him.

I can understand that on the surface you look at the stats and see that Tex’s 20 HR are superior to Kotchman’s 12, along with the 20+ RBI advantage that Tex holds over him.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve only watched a handful of Angels games (other than the ones against the Braves) this season. So my knowledge of Kotchman is minimal at best, and only consists of what I’ve read since the rumors started.

But this is a GREAT trade for the Braves if they truly felt that they had little to no chance at re-signing Tex after the year. Why you ask?

From what I’ve read Kotchman is considered an excellent defensive 1B. That is good for our pitching staff. Defensively, Tex might still get the edge (until I see Kotchman play and judge for myself), but we’ll call it a “near” wash with the leather.

As for the power? Judging by stats, it’s NOT close in the HR department. This season Tex holds a 20-12 advantage. Which means over the course of a full season, Tex is likely to hit about 15 more HR than Casey.

But they are neck and neck in the doubles department, and in over all hits (AB’s are even within a handful of eachother). So it’s truly a “HR” thing, when separating their numbers.

As for the RBI, Tex again holds a decent margin of distance (78-56). But while looking for a silver lining to the RBI total, I ask how much of that can be attributed to Kotchman hitting the majority of his games in the 2 hole, 6 hole or 7 hole in the lineup, for a team that’s been middle of the pack in runs scored.

While I’ve ragged on Tex for not having a higher RBI total than he has, due to Chippers hot start (and Tex’s cold start), there is no denying that Tex’s RBI totals are good due to having a guy like Chipper directly ahead of him in the lineup, and having McCann behind him. Both Chipper and McCann are having BETTER years than the Angels best hitter Vladimir Guererro (who ironically has about the same stats as Kotchman). So one could argue that Tex has had more protection on both sides of him.

Ultimately, what I’m getting at, is that when it’s all said and done, over the next 3 seasons, it appears that Kotchman will give us about 80 percent of Tex’s stats (and at least CLOSE to equal defense - according to reports), for about 10 percent of the cost.

Thus allowing Wren to use the “rest” of the money that would have been spent on Tex t put a better TEAM around Kotchman than he ever would have been able to put around Tex.

Other than those who, like I said, really liked Tex and were assuming that LM would allow Wren to re-sign Tex for 20+ million, AND still add a ton of talent around him, NOBODY can argue that this trade is not a VICTORY.

Might we have done better in the long-term taking the draft picks? Sure. But this gives Wren a head-start on putting a good team on the field next year, and especially with the VERY real possibility that Hudson could be out next year, leaves some money to revamp the rotation.

Like I said…..GREAT trade, IMO, considering Tex is a “free man” in two months.

By kirknga

July 30, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

ChopChop

Did I say that just because Chip and Joe said something it’s true? Nope did not, but don’t let that get in the way.

I do believe someone mentioned an increase in pinch hits this year, is that objective enough for you?

And hopefully you’re able to distinguish between an improved bench what is what we are talking about, and a great bench which we do not have.

Tomas I guess we’ll disagree on if Glav was “overpaid”at $6million I don’t think you will find any other pitcher with his credentials available at $6 million/year.

Ironically though, you mention having Durham as part of the bench, and he’s making $7.5 million.

So you want to pay a bench guy $7.5 million, but $6 million is too much for a 2 times Cy Young winner who can still provide innings(we thought)?

To answer your question, yes that look to be an improved bench, I’m not familiar with Dallas Mcpherson but I’ll take your word for it.

I dare say that if we had the bench we had last year our record would be worse than it is. Just because you don’t have a great bench doesn’t mean you don’t have an effective one.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

How will the lineup be tomorrow with casey as their first baseman. I think they would bat third and Kotsay in the cleanup spot. Without Chipper and Mac, this is a pathetic lineup.

By rupert

July 30, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

DOB, now that they have made this move and seemingly more to come, do you see them calling up more prospects in the coming weeks to get a better look at them? anderson or b jones comes to mind, maybe diory hernandez, maybe some guys down at AA, rather see some kids get some ab’s than norton, gotay or miller, guys that probably won’t be here next year.

By N8

July 30, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

I just got home a while ago, so I’ll “pre-apologize” if somebody posted this already. It’s a snip-it from Rosenthal’s latest notes:

“Dodgers center fielder Andruw Jones, batting .160/.248/.224 against right-handed pitching, did not start Monday night against Giants right-hander Kevin Correia……Look for that trend to continue now that Juan Pierre is off the disabled list. Pierre, Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier could get most of the starts against righties, reducing Jones to a $36.2 million platoon player.”

Yikes.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

kirknga

Remember Durham is a free agent after this year and there is absolutely no way he will make more than 2 million I think. And in the glavine deal i think it was a bad one, but it could have been great one had he stayed healthy. I’m just saying i would have not done that deal.

By N8

July 30, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

rupert

I’m gonna guess that they might not call up more guys in August than normal, other than to fill in for injuries.

But I’d wager heavily that come September call up time, the kids are gonna play, and play a LOT.

First time in 17 years that we haven’t been in the pennant race, and or been trying to “rest” the regulars for the playoffs.

September will be probably as important to some of the prospects as spring training will be.

That being said, Bobby isn’t gonna field an AA team, if guys are healthy. It’s not his style to give the games away. He’ll cite the unwritten rule of wanting to put the “most competitive lineup” on the field, as to not upset the teams in the races.

By JB

July 30, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Where did people get the idea that Tex built a house in Atlanta? He owned property, but he owns property many places as an investment. I know that this off season he was still living in the same house as he had been previous years (I think in Arizona?) and when asked this spring if he had any intentions of moving to Atlanta he said no.

By Reid in EAV

July 30, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

Robert, at this point what do you hope to accomplish with your one-note single-minded rants? (Given that we’ve all heard it, oh, several hundred times?) A lifetime appointment to the blog’s John HInckley Jr. Murderous Delusional Obsessive post? Consider it done.

And hey, I hear Jodie Foster is REALLY impressed with you.

By N8

July 30, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

The Goche

“…because there is not a chance that the Angels would have gone for that.”

You made the above comment, while discussing the LaRoche for Kotchman/Figgins trade (alleged trade).

I’ll A) agree with you, and B) add that not a chance in hell that JS DOESN’T pull the trigger on that deal, with Marcus leaving and eventually pulling the trigger on the LaRoche for Gonzalez deal.

If it is true, I don’t recall it. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I seriously doubt it.

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies

yeah they forget to mention Harrison is struggling just as much as Morton..who IMO is a better guy to keep than Harrison, due to his size and amount of pitches.

Andrus is 19…is he honestly going to take Escobar’s spot…NO

The other 2 pitchers haven’t even been called up…triple digits or not he ain’t been called up…and triple digits aren’t always what wins you games…it just leads to future arm issues.

Not to mention we got Jair and Campillo which make up for that….combined 15-9

By Rick

July 30, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

I just heard Terry Smith , the Angels broadcaster ,being interviewed on XM Radio . He is very excited to have Tex and thinks this will put the Angels into the World Series but he also said that Tex was not quite as good defensively as Kotchman ! How about that !

Now he has seen every one of Kotchman’s games and he saw Tex play for 5 years when he was with Texas and he thinks Kotchman has an edge on defense . That is quite a compliment to Kotchman .

Of course , we know that Tex has the edge offensively but if you are wondering if Kotchman can play defense , there’s your answer .

By Carolina Matt

July 30, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Good news is Blanco looks more and more like the center-fielder of the future…that helps narrowing down that we need a right-handed power-hitting left-fielder to anchor the outfield…

By Chop Chop

July 30, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

kirknga,

Do you have a sense of humor? I was exhibiting one, but I fear that my attempt at humor was not overpowering enough.

(By the way, Tom Glavine signed a 1-year, $8 million deal with the Braves this year. He’s also getting $3 million from the Mets’ buyout of his 2008 option. $11 million ain’t too shabby for a 42-year-old pitcher.)

You’re right that the bench has improved.

By SeattleBravesFan

July 30, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

N8 Couldn’t agree more with your assessment. Well said.

By A-ville Ranger

July 30, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

As of Jan The Cardnals’ top rated prospects were very pitcher heavy.

2 - Chris Peres 3 - Jaime Garcia 4 - Adam Ottavino 6 - Tyler Herron 7 - Clayton Mortenson 9 - Jess Todd 11 - PJ Walters 13 - Mitchell Boggs

Only 2 of their top 13 are position players.Does this mean they have young pitchers to spare ? If so does anybody have insight as to who they might trade for Ohman ?

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

A few questions for you late nighters. I was wondering what the market might be for Kotsay and Ohman. What do you folks think, compared to what has been received for players like Nady/Marte and Rauch.

I have real mixed emotions about trading Ohman at this time. If we kept him would we have a leg up on other clubs to resign him? Would he be hurt that we sent him off for a prospect, then came back calling after the season was over?

With us clearing a considerable amount of salary, I think FW might be more apt to pay bigger for more bullpen arms (Soriano, Gonzo and Ohman??).

So, would Ohman understand? I think we need to do the deal. Bird in the hand thing.

Could we get someone like Moss from Boston, or is that expecting too much?

How about Kotsay? Would the D’backs be interested in him (and an A level type pitcher) for Micah Owings? That guy intrigues me.

I will check your responses in the AM.

(How’s it going N8?)

By DAP

July 30, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

the braves arent the worst team in the majors, but they have some issues that wont be easy to fix, mainly because hudson might not pitch next year.

with a healthy tim hudson anchoring the rotation, the braves had a chance to be a very good team next year with just a few moves. now, they have to replace hudson, which will be very tuff.

the good news is that if hudson is out for the year, his $15 mil salary will probably be covered by insirance, giving us another big chunk to sign a pitcher, or trade for a good one.

we probably need to sign 2 pitchers. out of sabathia, sheets, dempster, perez, petite, lowe, garland, burnett….guys like that.

the braves also need a right handed power hitting outfielder…manny ramirez, pat burrell? they would be good but id hate to sacrifice defense, and both these guys will be quite expensive. milton bradley would be good but injury prone as we have discussed. i really think jason bay is the best fit for the braves…but is he gettable? left field is a problem the braves have to addess.

do you guys think blanco is our 2009 CF? id say he probably is. he plays CF well and is a good leadoff hitter. frenchy doesnt need to be handed the RF job in sprong training. he needs to earn it again, and i think he will. the offseason is really going to help him.

By SeattleBravesFan

July 30, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

of the Tex trade that is…

By kirknga

July 30, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

ChopChop

I did not think you were trying to be funny, sorry I didn’t get the humor.

I thought I tried to answer you in a way that wasn’t disrespectful and was slightly funny.

Sorry if you didn’t feel I was successful.

By BA

July 30, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

I’ve spent a lot of time ragging on ‘ole n8, but he nailed it with the 12:33 novel; this is, in fact, a GREAT trade. I’m one of the aforementioned that really liked Teixeira. If he wanted too much money, sc, er, the heck with him. This Kotchman almost NEVER strikes out. We desperately need someone like that to break up some of these high-strikeout hitters like Johnson and Francouer. However, I bet for the duration of this dreadful year he’ll hit cleanup, or fifth.

There’s just not much dropoff from Teixeira. It was a solid (if gut wrenching) move.

By BravesFan79

July 30, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

I say SCREW all you “rebuilding” people on here and lets KEEP Ohman, get a good backup for Chipper, spend the $$ we save on Glavines, Tex, and Hampton contract on keeping Ohman, getting a TRUE ACE… a Roy Holiday… get better backups…. (no woodwards, orrs, or corkys to pinch hit in crucial situations late in games and play when others are hurt) i warned all yall how bad it was letting Pena go and that it would make Escobar go into a slump….but no one wanted to listen when it first happened!

Have someone else make the bullpen decisions…NOT COX. Keep Cox around as head cheerleader….but hand off the duties of bullpen to someone else… PLEASE!

Then….to make a TRUE 2nd half run next year….have Smoltz come back around June as Closer. Have Moylan, Gonzales, Ohman in the pen as well, and i feel well have a VERY GOOD pitching oriented, good fielding, team.

Lets see what we can get on the market for Soriano and Kotsay.
GO BRAVES in 2009!!

By DAP

July 30, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

i do think the braves should trade ohman for what they can get for him, if there is a market for him. if we can get a good prospect, maybe someone who can pitch for us next year, id do it.

By kirknga

July 30, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

BravesFan79

I agree screw rebuilding. Let’s reload!

I like paying Ohman $3.5-4 million/year more than I liked the idea of paying it to Mahay.

In a division with so many terrific left-handers, I think you must have a couple of lefties who can get them out. To me, Ohman is a barometer of how committed the Braves are to staying competitive.

Not wanting to pay 20+ million/year to Tex is one thing, but are they willing to pay for Ohman, what the Phillies are paying for Romero?

With health an issue, we don’t know what the future holds with Smotlz. How much money do the Braves devote to him is a big question looming in the offseason.

But they are going to have to invest some money into this team. With at least 6 low to moderately price regulars in the line up, and 3-4 low-moderately price good arms in the pen, the Braves should be able to afford paying Ohman and Gonzalez good money as well as go get and pay a frontline starter.

There are only so many prospects tradeable on the farm, so with more than one hole to fill, the Braves are going to have to spend some money to acquire talent.

By ObiWanKobe

July 30, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

The Angels who don’t play many day games will soon learn of the bane of Tex. Not a whole lot of day-time play-off games either if my memory serves me correct. If DOB has to read all of this other crap that’s posted, then he needs to sign on w/ Boras.

By HurryHurry

July 30, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand why many are giving Wren a hard time about not already trading Teixeira and Ohman. Wren will trade them when he feels that he has an acceptible offer.

Because this board is full of 15 year olds and ADD idiots

By N8

July 30, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

SeattleBravesFan

Thanks.

Wayne

I’m doing fine. My 10 year old has his last tournament game on Thursday and my 8 year old’s season ended last week. I love baseball to death, but this summer has been humid and hot (tons of mosquitoes), and four nights of baseball to go to per week is a lot, especially while being in the midst of my busy season at work. So I’m glad it’s almost over.

Too bad they both start football practice in about three weeks.

As for Ohman and Kotsay? I’m not sure Kotsay is gonna bring much, but we’ve got little use for him next year. That isn’t to imply that I don’t like him, or think he’s done an admirable job (when healthy). I just think next year, he’ll be a year older (and that back is gonna get worse before it gets better), and we’ve got young OF prospects on the rise.

I’m torn on the Ohman situation. With our sudden windfall of cash to spend, Wren could do a LOT worse than re-signing Ohman after this year (for whatever the market dictates he should get). That being said, I think the bidding war over him will be greater and we might actually get more (in relative terms) for him, than Tex.

Guys that can get lefties out are hard to find, and playoff contenders can NEVER have enough of them. I would suspect that we’d get a pretty good arm in return for him. If Wren could pry a guy that is in the same situation as JJJ was in last year (ready to contribute - but on a team that has it’s rotation in order - but still an unknown commodity), I’d pull the trigger on a deal where we get a MLB ready (or close to it) starter for Ohman. ESPECIALLY if Hudson is lost for the year.

IMO, Ohman is the BEST reliever available on the market. Besides, after his Harry Caray impersonation, he needs to be on this team. Other than Chipper hitting over .400 for April and May, THAT was the most entertainment a player has given me all year.

BA

I appreciate the compliment (or agreeing with my post), considering how much we’ve gone back and forth. I wish Tex well. I expect him to bolster that lineup for the stretch run. But I’m with you on your assessment of Kotchman. I’ll take a guy like him that makes contact and hits a fair amount of doubles (along with hitting a career high 12 HR so far - meaning his power is starting to come around), and doesn’t strike out (Mark Grace anybody?), that plays great defense, over a guy that does what Tex does and costs a helluva lot more.

I’m curious to watch him play. Also curious (when Chipper and McCann come back), where he’ll hit in the order. With Jeff struggling, we are in DESPERATE need of a RH slugger in LF.

I’m still not completely opposed to Wren going out and getting Bay to play LF next year. Then Jeff could hit 7th or 8th and we can be “patient” with him to see if he can turn it around. I also wouldn’t be opposed to moving Jeff if the price was right. I’m not from Atlanta, nor do I live in the Atlanta area, so the “home town” thing means SQUAT to me. I want players that are gonna help the team win. Could care less where they are from.

With youngsters on the rise, and money to spend, Wren is gonna have a busy “off-season”, and it started TODAY. I’m almost more excited to see how the pieces will get put together, than I was to watch this team play, once I had the feeling it was “over”.

By TheAntiMe

July 30, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

I guess I’m kind of spoiled by the Braves over the last decade due to them always being in the buyer position. In the past in theses trade deadline swap meets they were always the buyer. This meant that if they had a big name free agent that they deemed unsignable, naturally, they would keep him for the pennant run and then let him walk in the off-season and usually replaced him in the line-up or pitching rotation with a free agent signing of reasonably similar value.

I would hope that that is the kind of thinking that Liberty and Frank Wren will follow this year in the off-season. The only difference being that they let the unsignable free agent walk a couple of months early and got something of value for him. This thought is very encouraging if that is truly the case. I guess we really won’t know until the off-season.

Actually, in those days the Braves roster was solid enough that it was best to go after a single 40 HR/130 RBI type of free agent. I think that in their current situation it would be best for them to maybe go after a couple of 20 HR/75 RBI type free agents. If it were to work out that way and since Frenchy will probably get his problems worked out, this time next season could be looking a whole lot better than things are looking right now. It could happen.

By Roman Gal

July 30, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

Why are SO many people still hung up about Brayan Pena? He’s history. Forget about him.

As far as the Teixeira trade goes, I think it was a good one. I loved Tex as much as the next person, but I honestly believe that Kotchman will make us (almost) forget about him.

By TheAntiMe

July 30, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

It was kind of funny hearing Tex talk about how he can tell his grandchildren how he played with Glavine, Chipper, and Smoltz. I’m sure those guys are thrilled to hear him make them sound like they are hundreds of years old. Scary thought is that when Tex does tell his grandchildren this that they could be watching Bobby Cox on TV pushing those 3 former teammates of Tex out to the field in a geriatric wheelchair.

By BravesFan79

July 30, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

Why is everyone on here wanting to trade Ohman so bad? its not like were going to get a Mariano Rivera in return…. the Braves should be able to EASILY afford his 3 Mill or so salary next year, ever after gettting another starter!
Yet alot of you want him gone? why!?? Dont you wanna see us be good next year??

*When will we EVER again have players that take half the pay they could of gotten in other cities (smoltz, chipper) and stay with the team?? As long as we have those 2 around during playoff time, i refuse to think of us as anything but contenders. *

Roman Gal u were probably one of the people who defended keeping Corky and his “once a week average yet supposid specialist defensive ability”

We talk about it because little mistakes like that is what has cost the Braves many, many games the past 2 years. Bobby Cox has to be one of the worst roster managers of all time. I mean he seriously expected to win throwing out woodward, orr, andrew, thorman last year….game after game when Chipper got hurt.

Him waiting so long to bring up Escobar while Woodcrap hit .180 or so was sickening to me. Just like every game watching Corky freakin Miller instead of Javy Lopez or Pena sickens me 2.
WTF was bobby thinking?? At least Lopez could of hit one out in a pinchit situation. , and provided the same defense if not better than what Corkys given us.

Bla… i dont even care about this season anymore, lets loose every game and get a good draft pick.
Rest everyone up for next year thats our main players.
Retool in the offseason, ADD to the team, dont trade everyone away for “prospects” like some on here are suggesting. You know who wed be without Chipper, Mccan, and Smoltz?? The Royals.
Go Braves in 2009….. ONE MORE TRY!
except this time be smart with smoltz and have him rested for the 2nd half!!

By scottbravesfan

July 30, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

The Braves better open up the wallet and sign CC. We need a big pitcher who will pitch a lot of innings for us.

By scottbravesfan

July 30, 2008 3:29 AM | Link to this

Carolina Matt, you really think that Gregor Blanco is the center fielder of the future? Seriously?

By Roman Gal

July 30, 2008 3:54 AM | Link to this

BravesFan79 I despise Corky Miller. But do you really think having Pena was going to be that much better? They weren’t going to keep 3 catchers all year…and even if the Braves decided to keep Pena over Corky, he would only get as many AB’s as Corky does now…not many. Plus he would be terrible behind the plate (yes, worse than Corky) and none of the pitchers would want to throw to him. That sounds counterproductive.

I don’t think you’re giving Escobar enough credit. He’s not a baby. I’m sure he can handle not seeing his best friend everyday…at least he certainly seemed to be able to last season.

By BA

July 30, 2008 3:54 AM | Link to this

Not sure we need a pitcher THAT big…

By BA

July 30, 2008 4:08 AM | Link to this

DOB would know better than I do, but watching Escobar on TV, he’s never struck me as being the type of guy that has trouble making friends on a ballclub. You know, they speak Spanish in Cuba, too.

And if you have a guy like Smoltz, (a freaking HOF) you don’t have him “rested” for anything. He’s your ace, and he’ll pitch till his arm falls off (figuratively) and he’ll give you a good chance to win 95% of the time. He did it for two decades, and I hope to see him do it for a couple more years. For BOTH halfs.

By Marc

July 30, 2008 4:20 AM | Link to this

Kotchman took a 7:30 p.m. EDT flight from Logan to Hartsfield. In all likelihood, he’ll be in the starting lineup tonight.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 4:28 AM | Link to this

“Robert, at this point what do you hope to accomplish with your one-note single-minded rants?”

Oh I dont know. Change, maybe?

One by one or two by two, the denizens of this blog are realizing that while Cox may have ACCOMPANIED the Braves to the playoffs 14 consecutive times, he never TOOK them there

By Robert

July 30, 2008 4:35 AM | Link to this

Look at the bright side. We are one day closer to the end of the Bobby Cox reign of stupidity than we were yesterday :P

By BigGTMike

July 30, 2008 4:42 AM | Link to this

Kotchman has at least been average to below average at a career .274 BA and .763 OPS. His .774 OPS this year is 21st out of the 26 first basemen with enough ABs to qualify (around 275 ABs). His BA this season of .287 is 9th out of those same 26 first basemen. 71 singles, 24 doubles, and 12 homeruns, which puts him just a tad below average in the slugging component of his OPS.

The one positive that keeps being brought up is that he has only struck out 23 times. Well, he has also only walked 18 times. That is what again brings him down to 21st of out 26 first basemen in the OBP portion of OPS with a .327 OBP. He also sees 3.35 pitches per plate appearance, 26th out of 26th by a decent margin (25th sees 3.48 p/pa).

Just for a fun comparison, Francoeur has walked 25 times with 74 strikeouts and sees 3.43 pitches per plate appearance. Francoeur saw 3.34 pitches per plate appearance in 2006.

I’ll try not to get too technical on the fielding stats, but he has the same field percentage as Teix (.998) with a slightly lower range factor and zone rating, which to me at least, isn’t a huge deal, it’s not like he’s some stiff over there.

After all that statistical stuff, Kotchman is still not the part of the deal I have a problem with. Hopefully he will develop into a player that can go deeper in counts and continues to develop his power.

It’s the mediocre non-prospect of a reliever we got as a throw in that has me annoyed. Think Chris Resop as a most likely developmental outcome with maybe the upside to be Tyler Yates if everything goes best case scenario. Pathetic. The deal would almost be better with some Angels in the Outfield DVDs thrown in instead. Maybe we should pray for some Angels to help us; we’re gonna need it.

Why oh why wouldn’t we take 2 draft picks instead? We’d get whoever signed Teix’s first rounder and a sandwich round pick between the first and second rounds. For another fun comparison, Brian McCann was a 2nd round pick. But of course not all 2nd rounders become B-Mac.

Sure, the draft picks would take 3 to 5 years to get here, but it’s not like we’re going to be in “win now” mode if we aren’t big players in the free agent game this offseason. And what about the current situation makes one believe that we would be.

By Robert

July 30, 2008 4:52 AM | Link to this

“First time in 17 years that we haven’t been in the pennant race, and or been trying to “rest” the regulars for the playoffs. “

Dontcha wish. Remember when Cox let Chipper persue extending his 100-rbi season streak instead of resting him for the playoffs? “What’s the harm?” was, I believe, the exact quote. *

Ker-PLUNK! (sound of baseball impacting on wristbone) and Braves LOSE to the Astros in the playoffs.

Number umpteen thousand and two of the endless series known as “The Donk Follies”

• • actually, the exact Cox quote was “Hee-Haw” but why spoil the fun

By BigGTMike

July 30, 2008 5:07 AM | Link to this

To the comment about Escobar making friends or whatever, I’ve seen him a few times out and about with Gotay, so I assume he’s fine…but what the heck does that even matter. He’s played a solid SS for full year number one. Let’s hope stuff like the shoulder isn’t chronic.

By Moby Grape

July 30, 2008 5:21 AM | Link to this

Oh I dont know. Change, maybe?

One by one or two by two, the denizens of this blog are realizing that while Cox may have ACCOMPANIED the Braves to the playoffs 14 consecutive times, he never TOOK them thereRobert

change what little dude? Cox has already signed for next season, and absolutely nothing that is posted on this board by anybody is gonna change anything about what the Braves do.

You just make yourself look like a one-note fool of a hater even to many of the non-virulent Cox doubters. You certainly long ago lost any respect that I might have originally had for you.

I would certainly hope that you had better things to do with your life than to spew useless venom on a board when it has no real import. You don’t seem like the crazy that Coach has turned into, but I guess that you must get something out of it though or you wouldn’t do it. Like the shrinks say, negative attention is better than no attention al all, huh?

By Robert

July 30, 2008 5:27 AM | Link to this

When a team is down, the players look to their manager for leadership and guidance. If the Braves do this, what do they see? Cox is either

1. On the phone concocting some scheme that abuses the relief staff

2. Turning some awful shade of blue or red as he hee-haws at the umps about their strike zone, or

3. Sitting on the dugout bench with one hoof jammed up his left nostril mining for turds

What an inspiration. Who wouldnt the other team to play for such a manager as that?

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this

Marc, he was scheduled to start tonight, barring any travel problems. And since he was only coming from Boston, not cross-country and a few time zones, no reason to think he wouldn’t make it with plenty of time to spare….

Sure, the draft picks would take 3 to 5 years to get here, but it’s not like we’re going to be in “win now” mode if we aren’t big players in the free agent game this offseason. And what about the current situation makes one believe that we would be.BigGTMike

Do you realize what a modest percentage of draft picks develop into productive major league players? And as to your assertion they aren’t in “win now” mode, don’t know if you saw Wren’s quotes but he said they definitely don’t see any reason why they can’t be contenders next season. Whether you or I or anyone else believes that isn’t important — they believe it, which means decisions will made accordingly.

They’re not in long-range rebuild mode, in other words. So you really shouldn’t expect personnel decisions to be made as if they were in that mode. To do so would be to expect the Braves to contradict their own assertion that they can contend next year and that the “strong nucleus” (Wren’s words) is in place.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 6:38 AM | Link to this

JB: I think people got that impression that Tex was building here because of some initial reports when Braves got him last year. He said the first time asked that he had property here, and that he had property in a few places.

He and his family maintained their primary residence outside of Dallas, and rented a place here.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this

Wayne: You’re not going to get Micah Owings in exchange for a two-month rental of Mark Kotsay. I’d be shocked if that happened. Beyond shocked, actually….

And for those wondering what Cards will give up for Ohman, I would not expect a top pitching prospect.

Like some of you’ve suggested, they really should consider keeping Ohman and trying to re-sign him. Need a quality durable veteran, since right now you’ve got Soriano, Gonzo, Boyer and possibly a few other youngsters returning, with Moylan expected back in May or June.

By Greg

July 30, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this

If the Mets trade for Manny and it doesn’t cost them something big like Maine or Reyes, then we have big problems. You know that they will sign Sabathia or Sheets in the off season. They have a new stadium and more money than God. We have absentee management looking to do things on the cheap. Next year is not going to be much better than this year. I can’t see us competing again for at least five years.

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

*Why oh why wouldn’t we take 2 draft picks instead? We’d get whoever signed Teix’s first rounder and a sandwich round pick between the first and second rounds. *

Over the next three to five years, Kotchman will most likely put up at least league average numbers. Beyond Chipper, Horner and Murphy, KJ and Frenchy are the next two best first round pick hitters in the past 44 years of the draft.

If Kotchman is merely average, therefore, he has a good chance to be better than all but a handful of first round pick hitters. Steve Avery has the highest career win total out of any Brave first round pick with 96 wins.

Kotchman just has to be average to be more successful than over 80% of the first round picks in the history of the Braves.

For another fun comparison, Brian McCann was a 2nd round pick. But of course not all 2nd rounders become B-Mac.

Brian McCann is also already by far the most successful second round pick hitter in franchise history. Know who’s second? Yunel Escobar. These kids are puppies. No way in hell they should already be more successful than every other second round pick hitter. Tom Glavine is the only second rounder better than McCann and Escobar.

*Sure, the draft picks would take 3 to 5 years to get here, but it’s not like we’re going to be in “win now” mode if we aren’t big players in the free agent game this offseason. *

In actuality, the draft picks are much more likely to never make it than they are likely to be only 3 to 5 years away. In the future, the draft picks are likely to be more useful as trade bait bodies than as ballplayers.

Kotchman, however, may end up being more useful as trade bait over the next few years than two busts of a first round pick will be.

If Laroche is any measure of the possible trade outcomes with Kotchman over the next few years, the Braves may get Gonzalez and Lillibridge type talent in return for Kotchman if someone like Freeman develops and provides more bang for the buck as Kotchman enters the final years of arbitration and starts becoming too expensive while making 80% of his free agency value in arbitration, which would be 60% higher than his overall market value.

Until then, as an arb eligible player, the Braves will be paying Kotchman on average 80 to 100% of his arb eligible value, 60% of his free agency value and perhaps 10 to 20% more than his overall market value, Tex, on the other hand, will be making 100% or more of his free agency value and twice his overall market value.

In summation, this is what we know and/or hope about yesterday’s trade:

Kotchman will provide more bang for the buck although Tex will provide more bang.

If Kotchman is just average or better, Kotchman will have been better than 80% of first round picks in franchise history.

Kotchman as he gets more expensive may end up being more tasty to the other teams as trade bait than those first round picks will ever be.

As Kotchman produces over the next two or three years, the Braves will only continue to widen the huge gap in major league productivity already gained in the Tex trades out of the players swapped.

And they got a prospect reliever who can chuck it. He may never be better than average but he will also likely never make more than the league minimum while a Brave either.

By BigGTMike

July 30, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this

DOB, I tried to address what you said about not all draft picks pan out by the sentence before what you quoted saying that not all turn out to be B-Mac. You’re right they don’t all pan out. I just think we’d be better off hand picking two guys out of a draft pool than with Kotchman and a reliever. Especially the reliever. Hope Kotchman continues to develop.

By Middle Age Braves Fan

July 30, 2008 7:16 AM | Link to this

If the Braves do this right, this could be a great thing. The Braves of the 90s were always built around pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Instead of spending the $20m on a first baseman, we spend $1.5. That leaves $18.5 on the table for pitching (or even $11M if you go by Tex’s salary this year). You add to that the $8M from Tom Glavine, $10M from John Smoltz, and $15M from Mike Hampton, and you have between $44M and $55M to spend on pitching. Lets go get Ben Sheets and CC Sabathia. If Hudson can come back, that would give us a rotation of Sheets, Sabathia, Jurrjens, Hampton, and Campillo. With that pitching staff, you will not miss the difference in offense between Tex and Kotchman. Maybe even enough left over to go and get a reliever. Let’s get back to Braves baseball and win with pitching!

By The Devil In Disguise

July 30, 2008 7:40 AM | Link to this

Like the shrinks say, negative attention is better than no attention al all, huh?Moby re Robert

But is that really it? Is he just a pathetic little narcissist desperately seeking to bolster his meager ego by convincing gullible dupes that what is nothing more than his opinion is valid? Or…is it more nefarious than that? Does the Devil in fact give him credit for the souls of the poor unfortunates who are weak enough to turn to him in their times of despair like this season? Personally I lean toward the latter scenario. Robert may in fact be…the Braves board’s version of the Anti-Christ.

By Middle Age Braves Fan

July 30, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Make that a rotation of Sheets, Sabathia, Jurrjens, Hudson, and Campillo.

By Dannyboy

July 30, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Dave - Would the Braves resign Julio on August 23rd and let him take the field for an AB on his 50th birthday? At this point, it would sell tickets and be a nice moment in our first uncontented summer in nearly 2 decades. Funny how spoiled so many of us fans have become. In the next couple of years, all remnants of the team of my youth will be gone, as the voices of Pete and Skip on the radio fade away, Glavine, Smoltz…even Chipper isn’t getting any younger and we don’t have a DH spot.

By FloridaBrave

July 30, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Ohman’s been great for us, but I’m optimistic in the Braves’ chances of landing a solid prospect for him. Ohman isn’t a Tex-type talent obviously but there are a lot more teams out there bidding for the services of a quality lefty reliever.

It especially makes sense if the Braves believe Hudson is out for 2009. I don’t care what Wren says- and I fashion myself as a fan more optimistic than most- we’re NOT winning next year without Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, and now without Teixeira.

Lastly, I firmly believe in the Braves’ ability to formulate an adequate bullpen next year with internal options. Boyer, Acosta, Bennett, Carlyle, Soriano, Gonzalez, Moylan, Stockman. I also think- if they haven’t- the Braves are foolish not to use James out of the bullpen. It’ll be much easier to hide his lack of a 3rd pitch out of the bullpen and IIRC he’s always faired well against lefties. Then you got a guy like Kris Medlen- who although is faring better now after transitioning to the starter’s role could still be a good arm out of the pen. Luis Valdez(a guy no one talks about), who we signed as a minor league free agent, is pitching very well as Mississippi’s closer and has a live arm. And then there’s Marek who we just obtained. And that’s not including other guys in free agency, waivers, trades we could obtain.

Ohman’s value is pretty high right now, it’s time to trade him. If not though, I’ll assume the Braves weren’t offered a prospect better than the guy they could have gotten with their Type B pick and move forward.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

BigGTMike, as Braveheart correctly points out, the Braves are much more likely to get a return from Kotchman and Marek than from a couple of draft picks.

By TommyP

July 30, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

*By TommyP July 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this If we deal for Owings, I hope we do it with the idea that he’s a project and we’re grooming him as a 1B or LF in the minors.

Yusmeiro Petit. Remember the name. He could be the pitcher the Braves acquire in a D’back deal.*

I mentioned it right before the Tex trade and then someone says they heard it might be Kotsay for Petit.

If we can net Petit for Kotsay, my thoughts of Wren will change DRASTICALLY.

By Mike

July 30, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

And for those wondering what Cards will give up for Ohman, I would not expect a top pitching prospect.

Like some of you’ve suggested, they really should consider keeping Ohman and trying to re-sign him. Need a quality durable veteran, since right now you’ve got Soriano, Gonzo, Boyer and possibly a few other youngsters returning, with Moylan expected back in May or June.

Whatever pitching prospect we get, it is probably going to be better than the supp. pick we get back for him, so yes, better than Brett Devall means that you trade the guy. When was the last time the Braves signed a middle reliever to a 3 or 4 year deal worth 3 million plus a year. I understand we have money to spend, but please. The Braves bullpen next year is priority #4 or whatever, especially if Hudson is out for the whole season. This team needs two starters and a right handed hitting left fielder(preferably one that can bat clean up.

Deal Ohman. No, you won’t get a top pitching prospect back. You didn’t get one for Mark Teixiera. If it is a mid level prospect with some upside, make the deal. Oh yea, deal Kotsay too. Even if it is for a low level prospect with little upside.

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Scrap the aged pitchers Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson and Hampton. Love them, but its time to move on. Time to rebuild the staff to the level we are accustomed. Jurgens, Campillo, Reyes, Morton are a start by two free agent aces would be preferable. Scrap B-lame Boyer and Royce Ring (Around the Bases). Time to quit tinkering around the edges and overhaul. Chipper should not be immune(pains me to say that. Keep: Escobar(ss), McCann(C), Kotchman(1B), Prado(2B), Francouer(RF), Blanco(bench), Norton(bench)M. Gonzales(BP), J Bennett(BP), Soriano(BP), Jurrgens(SP), Campillo(SP), Reyes(SP), Morton(SP). Scrap or Trade: Kotsay,K Johnson,B Carlyle, Boyer, Ring, Hudson, Hampton, Ohman Retire:Smoltz, Glavine On the Bubble: Chipper, Acosta, Diaz, Moylan, Infante Needs: Power left fielder, Speedy base stealing center fielder, 2 top flite starting pitchers, 3rd baseman??, Bullpen depth.

It was stupid to go into this season depending on Smoltz and Glavine. We knew Smoltz could go at any time and Glavine’s been in decline for years. We tried to rekindle the good ole days, but bones and muscle do not care about those emotions. Time to grow up and move toward the next generation Braves. I love Smoltz, Glavine and Chipper. It’s time to honor them and move on.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the note on McCann, Chief. Dang! I can’t wait till he gets better!

BTW—This was very funny! Do it, Braves! Do it!

Oh, and the line from Timmy was great…I feel bad for Tim, though. I saw him in the dugout last night, and he looked very upset.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Middle Age Braves Fan, no way the Braves will sign both Sabathia and Sheets.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m kind of skeptical about giving Sheets a huge, long-term deal. He hasn’t pitched anywhere close to 200 innings in a season since 2004. No doubt he’s been a very good pitcher, but he’s not in that dominant, perennial Cy Young mold.

I’d rather see them go after Sabathia or, yes, Oliver Perez.

I still think Perez could be the steal. Sabathia and Sheets are going to get all the attention and all the hype. Only problem is Boras is his agent and his age will make him attractive to a lot of teams that may be willing to give him a huge deal.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Again, why are people calling for the trade of a 26-year-old who’s hit .264/.355/.432 in the majors and .281/.364/.464 in the minors? This looks like a solid player for at least the next three or four years to me.

By jb

July 30, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Shaun, how much would you spend on Oliver? You know he is a Boras client?

4 years and 60 million? Because some dumb a* team is going to give that to him. Do you want that to be the Braves?

The Braves will do what they always do, trade prospects to fill holes.

By J.D. Phillips

July 30, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

I like the trade and I am one of the more pessimistic people on this blog.

Now if the Braves would release Miller and get this so-called player off of the team, it would be as good as a trade. I am not convinced he could make the starting squad for a local church soft-ball team. Lopez could come out of retirement and do more for this team at present. And let Sammons play more. All the kid has to do is hit 200 and he’s surpassed Miller’s performance.

It would be o.k. for the door to slam on Gotsay’s back as he headed out also.

It is one thing to wave a white flag but it is another to continually embarrassed yourself as a team with players like this.

By Original Jon

July 30, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

From reading Wren’s comments about the contract extension they offered Tex, saying it would have made him one of the highest paid players in the game, tells me that Liberty is dishing out the money for stuff like that. So maybe we can get a pitcher off the free agent market that will help us. Money shouldnt be that much of an obstacle if they were going to make Tex one of the highest paid players.

By McFann O

July 30, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Speaking of the Cow, you guys gotta see this! It fits perfectly.

By JC FROM UT

July 30, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

With the not so good news around Hudson, Wren really needs to look into the pitching market. Ben Sheets would be nice but he too is injured alot. I would look to send JF and Blain Boyer to KC for Grienke or Brian Bannister plus a prospect. If JF and Dayton Moore are good friends perhaps a deal could be made. What would also be nice is if Ohman was traded for whatever and he re-signed with Atlanta after the season

By Scuba-Steve

July 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

I know the trade of Tex was necessary, but, being only eight years old in ‘91 and a huge fan ever since, I can’t help but feel greatly depressed. I just want to sit and sulk. This sucks!

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

jb, I would offer Perez in the $10-12 million a year range if they can’t get Sabathia.

The Braves trade prospects every once in a while but usually it’s the ones they can afford to trade or the ones they know aren’t going to pan out.

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Solid Player referencing below avg stats??

could be a steal sounds like a wish??

Sounds like mediocrity to me. How about instead, we hit free agency and get some very good players and continue to build our farm system. That’s the beauty of free agency. You might pay alittle more now, but it allows you to groom the draft picks that eventually will save you money. All of this, of course, is dependent on organizational prowess.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

What the hell is going on with most of you people? Wake up. Snap out of it. Get real. This ain’t a dress rehearsal or a fantasy league.

I’ve got’cher vent right here. After the dust settles on the debacle of this season, we get over the unrequited love emotions of departing players like Tex and blogging experts quit straightening the deck chairs on the Titanic, I expect some of you might regain a bit of perspective and realize how futile it was for Braves fans to realistically hope that the Braves would have a chance to compete for post season this year. Even without injuries, we really didn’t have what it takes to get to the playoffs.

If we were currently within a game or two on either side of first place in our division (which we could easily have been), we still would have come up short in my opinion. That’s because we have three insurmountable problems with our franchise. I say franchise because I see our situation as more systemic than just being about the team. The critical problems, in order of detriment, are:

One - Liberty Media: Braves are but a line item on the ‘to eventually be sold’ block. The short term Balance Sheet needs to improve. Until we have a new, independent, non-media owner that has passion for the game, wants to win and is willing to invest the money to field a winning team, Braves will be a middle of the pack team. For now we have Wren and everyone above him handing out PR spin and talking points that will placate gullible fans and lull them into thinking there is actually a building process going on. Baloney. It’s about the bottom line. Period.

Two - Bobby Cox: Love him, hate him, whatever… let’s just say he’s a good ‘ol baseball guy. He needs to retire. Ask yourself this: without Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and others along the way like Avery, would Cox have so many pennants and a sure place in the HOF? I think not. Without Pat Corrales or Leo? Nope. Bobby goes through the motions. He was blessed with good, lucky timing.

Three - Braves fans: Yep. We are the willing and engaged accomplices in mediocrity. Because we are so heavily ‘homer’ endowed (as it should be), we’ll get excited about a new damn advertising vehicle that’s shaped like a cow (as it should not be). Look, I hope Kotchman works out fine, plays beyond himself and turns out to be a lovely first baseman… but he ain’t Tex. Even if Braves offered Boras-like money, do we actually think that a competitive player the caliber of Tex would want to sign with a dysfunctional team owned by Liberty right now?

Honestly, do you think that?

Oh, but the fans (and most in the Atlanta media) are right on board with the franchise talking points, the excuses, the rationale and the ‘bad luck injury year’ tripe. Yes, we’ve had an unprecedented string of injuries. It’s bizarre. But pitching didn’t lose all those one run games. No, the reason for that can be found in item two above.

Have players’ stretch, practice fundamentals and, uh, insert them and remove them from the lineup when it’s obvious to everyone that watches the games. Seems to escape Bobby and Chino. Maybe it wasn’t such a mistake to bring French back after three whole days… now he gets the rest of regular season in the minors, right there at the Ted. It’s all becoming clear.

Anyway, I digress. The fans… us… the consumer… we enable the Braves to continue on the course of putting butts in seats and, like lemmings, do the wave upon cue. If you don’t think the fans have bought into the spin, ask yourself this: Would the fans in Boston, Anaheim, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago spend so much time on their blogs trying to figure out how they can attract discount players, dump expensive stars and massage a low budget as we see on this blog? Would they be glad to get rid of Tex for a good guy like Kotchman? Hell no. They would have screamed bloody murder. Would their discontent make a difference? Probably not, but they would be heard.

Oh, wait, I almost forgot… we’re rebuilding for next year. Right. All the little chessmen are being strategically moved around and, voila… instead of a fourth or fifth place team for the next few years we have a third or fourth place team. Yea, that’s improvement. Who needs Tex? After all, we want to save Liberty some money, right? Isn’t that the objective? Field a team just good enough to give Atlanta false hope and say the right things each year so that you fans will park your butts in their seats and buy their beer and root for your team.

Good teams don’t think about which of their best players they can trade, they just don’t. But we have Liberty, Cox and our enabling selves, so surely we can all get our heads together, sharpen our pencils and find ways to save our way to success. But you have to give kudos to Liberty. They’ve done something truly incredible… they have the fans themselves rationalizing cutting budgets and trading away good players, so why not let them eat cake… and drink beer and eat hot dogs and pay the high ticket prices and so forth. The fans won’t complain, they’ll buy anything… even the spin. Braves have always been my team and until they leave Atlanta, they always will be.

I’ve seen the 80’s. I watched games then, but the adreniline didn’t flow very often. It’s a different game, pulling for a loveable loser. Brace yourself people… enjoy the little things. Like in June for the next few years, you’ll hear things like, “we’ll get’em next year”. It’s laughable when you think about it.

Finally, I really can take losing. We have had a string of bad luck and every team goes through this stuff, but I just can’t sit by and listen to never-ending spin (bs) and watch MY team, through gross negligence and dysfunction, dismantled and treat it like swapping baseball cards at a collector convention like some of you jaded experts. So I’m calling most of you lemmings. There… stand in line to hate me.

Now, whom else can we trade and save some money? That’s the objective, right?

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I think Perez is worth about 4 years, $45 million. The fair market value will probably be 4 years, $50 million. Some idiot team will give him 4 years, $60 million. He’s probably already playing for the idiot team that will pay him $15 million a year.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

JC from UT, I don’t think the Royals will trade Grienke unless they get another potential ace plus at least one other decent player…or unless they get about four or five guys who are likely to be great-to-above-average major leaguers.

Grienke is probably one of those “untouchables-unless-overwhelmed.”

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

I can’t understand why keeping Ohman is not a PRIORITY. We could re-up him for a relative free agent bargain. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Could somebody please explain?

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

I ASK AGAIN: Why not wait until closer to the deadline to see if a better offer was going to come in, to see if the Sox were going to have a prayer answered and be able to trade Manny, to see if an injury occurs, etc. It just doesn’t make sense to me to make the deal at the time. Now, if it were 3:55 PM tomorrow and that was the best deal; take it.

By jb

July 30, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Shaun-

jb, I would offer Perez in the $10-12 million a year range if they can’t get Sabathia.

When was the last time the Braves signed a high priced free agent?

Not to mention, for some who think this team has 45-50 million to spend, where is that number coming from???

Is no one taking into account the fact that Francoeur, Johnson, Mike Gonzalez, and Casey Kotchman are arb eligible????

And Brian McCann and Rafael Soriano get raises of 2.5 million and 3.5 million?

The Braves trade prospects every once in a while but usually it’s the ones they can afford to trade or the ones they know aren’t going to pan out.

Okay, but that is how they do business. Not sign free agents.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

A 26-year-old who has hit .264/.355/.432 in the majors and .281/.364/.464 in the minors is below average?

MLB averages this season: .262/.331/.412

By Original Jon

July 30, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

hell no on O. perez

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

I’m with you on Perez. He may represent the best “value” on the FA market.

BTW, not every Boras client expects $20MM a year. Nor does Boras ask for it. Boras infuriates fans because he insists on squeezing every last dime for his clients and is (shall we say) not a big fan of hometown discounts. But he had one high-profile bust last year (Andruw) so the guy’s not invincible.

I’m also on the “keep Ohman” team unless the Braves are seriously blown away with an offer. If you can sign him for Mahay money ($8 MM for 2 years), do it!

By ernesto

July 30, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

As we close the book on the Tex deal, I’ve got to say, even though it didn’t work out you’ve got to give props to Wren for going for it.

I’d rather have a GM who’s willing to roll the dice now and then, even if it doesn’t come out the way we planned than one who will sit pat waiting for teams’ to give them something for nothing.

Look forward to Kotchman at 1B and seeing what we do with all that money we’re not spending on Tex.

What the hell, why not start a 10 game win streak tonight? Go Bravos!

By wg

July 30, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

OK. Now that everyone has had a little time to reflect on the Tex Trade, let’s try and put some prospective on next year.

Up front need is a front line pitcher and a left fielder who can give us 20 + home runs and 90 RBIs. The center fielder needs to be Blanco to get some speed and OBP at the top of the line up. That way you can have Blanco, Yunel, Chipper, Kotchman, McCann, (Left field ??) Frenchy, & Johnson. This is potenitally a great looking line up. Keep in mind that Frenchy is just 24 and never had the so-called sophomore slump. If his foot heals and his mentality comes back to actually having fun playing the game, he should be all right. We definately need to go into spring training with him as the right fielder.

Pitching should have a new stud at the top (but not Burnett) too much of an injury risk. Jurjens, Campillo, Hudson (if available) and a 5th.

Bullpen needs to be anchored by Gonzo (deal Soriano if anyone will have him) because his mentality won’t let him set up. Hope that Moylan can come back, keep Ohman, Jettison Ring and maybe Boyer.

Keep Infante, Prado, and maybe Norton, with the back up catcher being Miller. I know most of you don’t like Miller, but be honest, how good can you expect someone to be who only plays 1 out of every 7 games. You can’t waste that position on a young player who needs time to develop in the minors to fill in if something actually happens to McCann.

I wouldn’t hold out much hope for HGH man to be available next year and the concensus is that Gorkys is about 1 and 1/2 to 2 years away.

Get something for Kotsay today or tomorrow and let’s build fornext year.

By FloridaBrave

July 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I don’t know where the Kotsay for Petit talk is coming from. I haven’t read it anywhere but I hope it’s true…

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

So Savannah Guy,

What’s your solution, other than showing Bobby the door and refusing to attend games, buy merchandise, etc.?

You gonna go to Building and Loan to see if you can buy the club?

By Random by Red Wiggler©, the Cadillac of Worms

July 30, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Kashi: “I WANT TO KNOW WHAT FRANK WREN OFFERED TO TEX. If is it 18M and it was turned down, WHY THE HELL HE DIDN’T COME BACK TO TEX AND ASK WOULD YOU CONSIDER OUR SPRING TRAINNING OFFER BEFORE THE DEADLINE? I bet Tex would give it a thought because he didn’t had a great year as he thought during spring trainning. THIS IS A BS BUSSINESS BRAVES ARE DOING.”

I’m fairly certain that Tex was 100% determined to test the free agent waters regardless of any offer from the Braves in Spring Training or at the trading deadline.

Wren did all he could do by making Tex the best offer he felt he could make — it’s not his fault Tex declined.

And it’s not Tex’s fault for deciding to wait and see what offers he would get from several teams competing in a free market.

There are no villains here, unless you want to personify capitalism and hang it in effigy.

Grow up.

PS: And who knows — it’s still possible that Tex may sign with the Braves. (I know, I know — I’m sniffing my crack here, or whatever it is you kids say these days.)

PPS: And I’m with FloridaBrave on this — if we can trade Ohman for a quality starter, we should.

PPPS: Middle Age Braves Fan, et al —

Why do y’all insist on writing off Smoltz and Glavine from next year’s fantasies? If’n yore a-wishin’, why not wish for their recovered health and effectiveness?

By slugger

July 30, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Harden, Sabathia, Sheets or AJ Burnett… need to add one via FA this off-season.

As far as a FA outfielder, Vlad is the only OF I think worth it to shell out the cash… so maybe they make a trade here?

Still praying we can someday convince Baltimore to trade us Markakis…

Let’s put Micah through the Rick Ankiel school of hitting…Micah did always play on the same summer teams with McCann, Francouer, Markakis and Hermida - except Micah was the leading East Cobb power guy. Funny that all of them were stud pitchers too… I’m convinced Owings could actually be a legit everyday big league outfielder (Georgia HS record for career HRs). Now’s the time to buy low with Micah!

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Savannah Guy, I suppose there are about 15-20 other franchises that have more than “three insurmountable problems.”

I can’t think of too many franchises outside of the major markets (New York, LA, Chicago) that are in any better shape than the Braves for 2009-2012. And the Braves may be in better shape than a few of the franchises in the major markets.

You really think this franchise is headed for the 1980s all over again? I don’t see it.

I’m certainly aware that this team may finish under .500 in one of the next three years. It’s quite possible Francoeur never becomes a halfway productive player, a key young pitcher or two gets hurt, Escobar is just mediocre for the rest of his career, they never acquire a decent power hitter, most of the prospects never pan out. But I think they have just as good a shot to contend for the division title.

That’s about as objective as I can be. I don’t see that this is inevitably a downtrodden franchise for the next 5-10 years. I see that it could get ugly. But I also see that this franchise looks similar to how the Indians and Brewers looked 3-5 years ago.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

July 30, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

A truly above-average major league second baseman can catch a damn pop-up when the game’s on the line.

By Newman

July 30, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

DOB

What does the payroll look like next year with Tex gone and Hampton off the books? I guess Smoltz is off as well.

Thanks

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

wg,

Well argued post.

Huddy’s injury was a kick in the gut, no question. Before that, however, how many of us really thought the rotation would be a major concern in 2009?

Now the Braves have to add a top-of-the-rotation starter to the shopping list (along with a corner OF who can rake).

Where I will differ with you is on Miller. He’s a wasted roster spot, especially since the Braves insist on keeping 12 pitchers.

With such a short bench you can’t carry automatic outs. I would argue they should keep Sammons or someone who can produce offensively and have another bench player who could be an emergency catcher — only for the purpose of finishing a game in case of injury. (Could Infante do that?) Even better, have a backup catcher who could fill in at a couple of other positions so you could keep him fresh.

The Braves should not go into 2009 with a backup catcher who’s an automatic out.

By wg

July 30, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

McCann is now signed long term so that doesn’t play into the dollars. We shuld be getting rid of Glavine 8 mil. Smoltz 12 mil, Hampton (God only knows how much). That frees up a ton of money. We can be thankful that French didn’t sign long term and basedon this yers numbers shouldn’t command much in arbitration, but if he gets it going next year, they should have some dollars available to lock him up as well.

The Braves as a franchise have never been team to go heaily into free agency preferring to develop from within and trading for the bigger names (Sheffield, Drew, Tex, Hampton etc.) Maybe it is time to change that thinking a little.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

I missed all the excitement yesterday because I was at a Mark Knopfler concert.

Question for you music experts: Is Mark Knopfler a big deal?

I’m serious. Yes, I know (now) that he was in Dire Straits, but, as far as the rest of it goes: Great guitar player, etc., is he still considered “big time”?

I enjoyed the concert. He only played 2 of the famous Dire Straits songs, of which I was familiar, but over-all, pretty neat environment over there at Chastain Park.

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

In addition to my other reasons for waiting to see if someone’s offer would have increased: it appears the Rays are in “deep” discussions about Bay. Would that increase the Sox’s urgency to want to add Tex? We will never know…

By Braveheart

July 30, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

There… stand in line to hate me.

We don”t stand in line. We sit in the barbershop.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Still praying we can someday convince Baltimore to trade us Markakis…

I don’t think it’s going to happen unless the Braves can offer Baltimore at least a similar player or better around the same age, in which case, why would the Braves make that trade?

hell no on O. perez

Why not? Money is a very valid reason to stay away—I wouldn’t give him more than $12 million a year and he may command more—but I can’t see another valid reason.

The guy has one of the best K rates of any active pitcher, which bodes very well for what he’s capable of. And he’s very young for a free agent.

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

From MLBTradeRumors:

“According to Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Pirates are deep into talks with the Rays and other teams about left fielder Jason Bay. However, no “truly elite prospect” has been offered yet, and the chances are better than 50-50 that Bay stays. And who would move to right field for the Rays - Bay or Carl Crawford? The Braves are considered out of the mix.”

By wg

July 30, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

To BMtHoFC. Get real, one error does not screw up a season. If the Braves keep KJ in the 7th or 8th spot in the lineup consitantly, his RBIs will make up for an occasional error.

And for you guys that are pushing for AJ Burnett, watch out. Too much money for such a big physical question mark. eg Mike Hampton.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

So Savannah Guy, What’s your solution, other than showing Bobby the door and refusing to attend games, buy merchandise, etc.? You gonna go to Building and Loan to see if you can buy the club?

BravesFanInRockies, the solution would take a bit of doing and since I don’t like to write longs posts…

But really, I’m not a Bobby hater… in fact I have lots of respect for him as an old school baseball man. Now that the Braves are going younger he probably makes more sense as manager than he has since ‘91. Young players shouldn’t get jerked around like some managers do and Cox, if nothing else, is patient bringing along talent. He builds confidence in young players. He used to anyway… not so sure anymore.

So, I won’t even attempt to tell you how I would restructure the team. I just know that winning starts at the top and that our ‘top’ is not exactly what I’d call Ted Turner-like passion and competitiveness. So, without details on corporate restructuring and vulcan mind- melds with Cox, Wren, JS and up, I’d be content if a new owner came out of the blue and dismantled everything.

I’ll leave the player trades and details to you guys.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, do you know how many errors he’s made versus how many plays he’s made? Not pretending he’s a Gold Glover or even a good fielder, but he’s far from awful. People just remember the bad plays, particularly the one missed pop-up, but no one remembers all the routine plays or even the good plays.

Orlando Hudson and Rickie Weeks have almost as many errors in fewer total chances.

Jeff Kent, Felipe Lopez and Kaz Matsui have as many or almost as many in over 100 fewer chances. I seriously doubt if any of these players were Braves, people would call for them to be traded or moved to the outfield (unless of course they dropped one fly ball late in a game).

By Goodoleboy58

July 30, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

I dont want Oliver Perez anywhere near our team for +10 a year that’s ludicrous

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

One of the major differences between today, and the 1980’s, is that this franchise now has a vision for what it hopes to accomplish.

Management is not blindly taking stabs at random players in an attempt to make a splash.

There is a footprint in place, and the organization will continue to follow it.

I don’t see many bright, shiny lights in 2009 (especially if hudson has TJ surgery), but, I do see 2008 as being the true “bottoming out” year for this squad.

That could extend into early next season, but I feel that this team will begin to re-emerge in 2009, and you will be able to see some positive signs to make you believe that the Braves can contend in 2010.

Regarding whether or not Sheets or Sabathia will come play for Atlanta.

My belief is it will come down to money (it usually does).

I think a guy knows that if he can come here, and play for this organization for a lot of money, his chance to win big will come soon enough, even if not in 2009.

Sure, players want to win, but a guy of the ilk of Sabathia will believe that he can come to Atlatna and win 20 games, and along with Jurrjens, Campillo, and a re-vamped offense, there is no reason to believe that big time winning can’t occur again real soon.

Again, this is not the 1980’s. It is easier to reach the play-offs now, and most teams can give consideration to being a wild card team, all the way into September.

If the Braves open up the checkbooks, I think they can get a top-line starter. If not, then they’ll get the next best thing.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

We sit in the barbershop.

… and we just got our ears lowered all the way to our jawbone.

By Andy K.

July 30, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

DOB: Is Kotchman really going to be a clean-up hitter type guy? Alot of the people on these boards are basically slotting him into the lineup Bobby Cox used when Tex was a Braves. If I’m Cox, I want to give Chipeer (When he gets back) as much protection as possible in that lineup, so wouldn’t it be more likely McCann bats clean-up, and Kotchman fifth?

By wg

July 30, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

To BravesFanintheRockies. I have been a Braves fan since they were in Boston. I agree a little bit on the roster spot, but don’t forget when you put a catcher in even once a week, he really needs to be a catcher. If you look around at most rosters, the backups are usually there because they aren’t good enough offensively to play for someone every day but are decent enough with the arm and glove to keep people from taking advantage on the base paths. And you need someone who is cheap as well. Look at the Yankees and Red Sox and their catching problems. You have got to have someone in AAA who can step in during a prolonged injury to your #1. That is one of the reasons the Braves let Salty go. He was never going to be a #1 and it would have taken a while to convert him to 1st Base.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

In addition to my other reasons for waiting to see if someone’s offer would have increased: it appears the Rays are in “deep” discussions about Bay. Would that increase the Sox’s urgency to want to add Tex? We will never know…

Why would it increase the Sox’s urgency? They already rank 2nd in the AL in runs, 2nd in AVG, 1st in OBP and 4th in SLG. You really think they are afraid they are going to lose because they didn’t add offense?

Also, the Sox are about 50 runs better than the Rays in run differential and 14 runs better than every other AL team. If the Rays or Yankees or another team beats them out of a playoff spot, it won’t be because the other teams have the better players. I’m sure the Sox are mostly just fine taking their chances with the players they’ve got from here on out. If they make a trade it will be a minor one for a pitcher.

By N8

July 30, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

brent a.

Knopfler is a pretty unique player. By that I mean he is one of only a handful of “rock” guitarists that doesn’t use a pick, which creates his unique and original sound that is pretty hard to emulate. Lindsay Buckingham is another one of the same vein.

Neither of them are my personal favorites, but as a guitar player they have my respect. Both are pretty good song writers too. I know from reading interviews that Buckingham had no “theory” training, and learned everything by ear and is self taught.

My suspicion is that Knopfler was self taught as well.

Not too many guitar teachers would “teach” that style.

I’ve heard a billion cover bands try and play Money for Nothin’ and even though I’ve learned it and other guys have technically played it correctly, it’s a hard tune to get it to sound just right.

When you use your fingers instead of a pick, it adds that personal “touch” so to say.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

I dont want Oliver Perez anywhere near our team for +10 a year that’s ludicrous

…Still no reason why.

By Murphy

July 30, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

See Shaun, I am not the only one not buying your one good stat defense of Oliver Perez.

By j-school dropout

July 30, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Brent A:

You ask if Mark Knopfler is still important. Well, in terms of sales, no. I mean if that’s your only yardstick, go listen to Justin Timberlake.

But in terms of absolute musical brilliance and songwriting, he’s still doing very vital work.

After all, what other rock ‘n’ roll guitarist finger picks and writes songs about Ray Croc, Sonny LIston, and the Speedway at Nazareth?

I would argue that his solo work is just as good as his Dire Straits stuff. Run, don’t walk to buy his two best solo albums: Sailing to Philadelphia and Shangri-La.

By N8

July 30, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

From what I gather, it appears as though McCann has more raw power than Kotchman.

With him being LH, and a patient hitter (perfect for hit and runs), if I’m Cox, I’d hit Kotchman 2nd (like the Angels did the past 20 games or so), and have him take advantage of the hole on the right side with Blanco (or whoever is gonna be our lead-off hitter next year).

Putting McCann in the clean-up spot. My only issue with McCann in the cleanup spot, is that being a catcher playing on a Bobby Cox team, that means he’ll have a day off once a week. Not so sure that I want the “clean-up” hitter out of the lineup for 20+ games a year.

Ultimately it would be nice for Jeff to find his stroke and he and McCann could “flip flop” in that spot. Yeah……I know. Stop laughing.

My guess is that Wren will acquire a LF that has power and he will be the clean-up hitter.

But I think having Escobar and KJ lower in the order give a little more punch to the lineup’s lower half.

Thoughts?

On a side note, I could REALLY see Wren going after Furcal in the off-season to pair up with Escobar in some capacity up the middle, and bat him lead-off. Then dangling Blanco and (or) B. Jones as trade bait. Possibly even Lillibridge for a power bat in LF and more pitching.

Not like we won’t have the money this time to snag Furcal, if Wren so desires.

I have ZERO problem with that, if the Furcal we’d get would be the disruptive lead-off hitter that slaps the ball all over the field and runs at will. However, if we were to get the “I have Ricky Henderson lead-off power” Furcal that hacks for the fences, I’m not interested.

Imaging a TRUE lead-off hitter with REAL SB speed and the knowledge of HOW to steal bases, with a guy like Kotchman hitting 2nd.

Deadly run scoring possibilities.

By ernesto

July 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Andy, I think it would be more likely that McCann hits 4th, then a righty (Frenchy???), the Kotchman.

That would be my guess.

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I was waiting for you to come back with their offensive stats. How have they been lately? How often do other teams counter a move by a rival? Get me some stats on that.

Additionally, they are looking for a long term bat to replace Manny as they are certainly not going to have him in their lineup next year. Yes, I understand that they have Ortiz, Youk, and Lowell. Who knows, maybe they trade Manny, move Youk to LF, and put Tex at 1B. Crazier things have happened.

Or, maybe the Yankees decide they need to counter (which they almost always decide) and add a bat. With Posada out, Matsui uknown, etc; they could easily move Giambi back to DH and put Tex at 1B.

Many things could happen…but we will never know.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Hex turned down what would have made him one of the highest paid players.

He says he wanted to stay here.

Is there continued doubt that it’s ALL about money to him? There should be NO doubt at this point.

He should be paid for two-thirds of each season; Hell, that’s all he plays! The GM who gives him 23-mil per is THE BIGGEST IDIOT IN THE HISTORY OF ORGANIZED SPORT!

I’m so glad he’s gone! From our midst has been exorcised a baseball demon!! His sole loyalty is to dead presidents. He’s not going to be satisfied with what he DESERVES; he’s on a personal crusade, to extort every single buck he can possibly get, from US, the fans of baseball. After all, when it comes down to it, we’re the ones who pay his salary no matter where he plays. He doesn’t have the makeup or integrity of an A-Rod. I’ll be sincerely surprised if his numbers don’t drop dramatically once he grabs his pot of gold.

Screw you Hex; may you tear an ACL to pieces, TODAY!

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

N8

Thanks for the info. I know little to nothing about music, so I never would have thought about the “no pick” effect. That’s interesting.

He didn’t play “money for nothing” last night; but, I’m sure he gets tired of playing that.

By jb

July 30, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Shaun

You think the Braves are going to get into a bidding war with a Boras client and get him for 10-12 million a year?!?!?!

That is the reason why.

Yes, he is probably the best bargain on the market, but that “bargain” will probably sign for 4 years and 60 million.

No reason to think otherwise. You can want it to happen, but it won’t.

And those who think the Braves should sign Will Ohman to a 2 year 8 million dollar deal are way off base.

Mahay signed a 2 year 8 million dollar contract. Ohman is younger and better. He is going to get 4 years and probably 16 million. With Soriano(6.2 million) and Gonzo heading into arbitration, how much do you think the Braves will want to spend for Ohman?

You know I’m right.

Trade the guy.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

J-school: Gotta love Knopfler. Sailing to Philadelphia is my favorite of his solo efforts. I’ll take three Dire Straits albums to the desert island: Dire Straits, Making Movies, and the incredible Love Over Gold.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Murphy, Perez has an awsome K rate. His career BB and HR rates aren’t bad. He’s 26. He doesn’t have the resume as some of the bigger names and older pitchers that will be on the market so he may command less.

Aside from Sabathia, Perez is probably your best bet on the free agent market. I wouldn’t offer him more the $12 million a year. But that’s the only negative I see to going after him, is that he could probably command more than that.

By PopeVanIII

July 30, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

DOB

I asked a few days ago, but to my knowledge, you never responded. Would love your input.

Any idea whether the front office is planning to be active on the free agent market this offseason? We would seem to have a whole lot of money to spend, even if they’re only planning to keep payroll at around $90 million. Guys like Dunn, Burrell, Sbathia, and Sheets will be available, and any of them would fill major holes on the roster. I’m hopeful that we’re not just going to trot out a team with a $60 million payroll next season.

Heard anything on that front? I know it’s been a while since the Braves have been active on the free agent market, but it’s been a while since they’ve had this much money coming off the books, too.

Again, I’d love your input.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

IgCognito, point is they already have a great team. Why would they give up much of anything to get a possible two-month rental when they already have a great team with a great offense?

The Red Sox are smart enough to know not to make a trade just to make a trade. I don’t think Bay to the Rays makes them significantly better than the Red Sox.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I can�t understand why keeping Ohman is not a PRIORITY. We could re-up him for a relative free agent bargain.Shamus Thacker

He’ll probably get $3-4 mill per year in a two- or maybe even three-year deal. Relative bargain? For a setup man or situational lefty?

Unfortunately, the contracts given in last year or two for Mahay, Wheeler and a few others blew the pay scale sky-high for such non-closers, and until Braves adjust their strategy and are willing to pay big bucks for a bullpen, they aren’t going to have such guys and will instead hope to get the most out of cheaper relievers. (Although next year, they’ll probably pay $3 mill or more for Gonzalez, in addition to the $6.1 they owe Soriano. that situation makes it even less likely they’d keep Ohman, who’ll probably be traded today or tomorrow).

By SeaAtl

July 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Why trade Ohman? I must be missing something….though a really good reliever, I don’t see him as a guy who is going to command a salary out of the Brave’s range like Tex. Sure the Braves are in “sell mode”, but it’s no fire sale! And with Kotsay - what makes some think there is a market for the guy? I have a hard time imagining GMs knocking on FW’s door asking for a two month rental of a good-not-great CF whose played 50% of the games this season due to injuries.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 30, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I think you’re right in a lot of what you say about Perez. I just have a hard time seeing him as a #1 starter, which is what the Braves’ll need if Hudson’s out. I think this is largely b/c despite his numbers, Perez is quite streaky whereas a true #1 will be much more consistent.

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Thanks for making my point. Average is not average. Average is below Average when your average should be above average.

The only thing about Perez is that he is a stinking Met and if we pay him big $$ to come here and pitch mediocre, then we eat a big shyt sandwich. Definately a gamble.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

N8,

My gut reaction would be, that coming off of back surgery, Furcal would be more likely to try and be more of a slap hitter, rather than swinging for the fences.

Of course, one could just as easily argue that if his back is bothering him, he won’t be as able to beat out grounders, etc., and will thus try to drive the ball more.

My hope (if we get him), would be that he will not have lost his speed, but in his wisdom, will realize that he is not a power hitter, and will do everything he can to get on base, the way he did when he first came up.

Oddly enough, in his short time with the Dodgers, this season, he both A) hit with some power; and B) got on base at a very high clip.

2B Furcal 1B Kotchman 3B Chipper LF Someone Good C McCann SS Escobar RF Francoeur - unless he continues in his malaise, and then he’ll be replaced by something, anything CF Blanco

Clearly, we still have some major holes to plug.

But, if we sign Furcal, seemingly Johnson and/or Prado can help us fill one of our holes via trade.

This should be an interesting off-season, and possibly, even an interesting next 29 hours.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Even if Braves offered Boras-like money, do we actually think that a competitive player the caliber of Tex would want to sign with a dysfunctional team owned by Liberty right now?

Honestly, do you think that?Savannah Guy

You’re damn right he would have. Money. All offers the same, he’s staying here. And it’s the same reason you hear so many guys like Oswalt, Wagner, Maddux, Griffey say they’d wave no-trade clauses to play in Atlanta, because every player in baseball who’s been here tells them how great it is to play for Cox and this organization.

You can like that or not, pooh-pooh it all you want, but I’m just telling you facts. Players want to come here, or stay here. It comes down to money.

Put it this way: I’d guarantee you that if the Braves made 10 top free agents an offer that matched the other best offer they got from any other team, and I mean Yankees, Red Sox, any other team, at least half of those players would choose the Braves. I have no way of proving this, of course, but if you went over to the Cardinals clubhouse today and discussed that with a handful of St. Louis players, I’d bet you would hear the same.

And if you asked Tex today, he’d tell you the same. And Furcal. And Maddux. And Andruw.

I know, a lot of folks here don’t want to hear that. But it’s absolutely true. Among players — you know, the ones who actually play the game we pay to watch or are paid to cover — far and away the most attractive component of the Braves franchise is Cox. It just is.

Now, if you think that’s garbage, and that our own opinions are more important than the players themselves, or the coaches around the game, well, I don’t know what else to tell you.

By Random by UBIK©

July 30, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

wg: “Up front need is a front line pitcher and a left fielder who can give us 20 + home runs and 90 RBIs. The center fielder needs to be Blanco to get some speed and OBP at the top of the line up. That way you can have Blanco, Yunel, Chipper, Kotchman, McCann, (Left field ??) Frenchy, & Johnson.”

How ‘bout a Diaz/Blanco platoon in LF and a Kotsay/Infante platoon in CF? Infante is as good or better than Blanco leading off. Save our money for that additional front line pitching that I agree we need.

Against LH pitchers, Infante would lead off; against RH pitchers, Blanco would lead off.

Line-up(s) could be:

Blanco RF (v RHP) or Infante CF (v LHP)

Yunel SS

Chipper 3B

McCann C

Kotchman 1B

Kotsay CF (V RHP) or Diaz RF (v LHP)

Johnson 2B

Francoeur RF

pitcher P

(Bottom half of order may vary depending on performance.)

Savannah Guy: “… I expect some of you might regain a bit of perspective and realize how futile it was for Braves fans to realistically hope that the Braves would have a chance to compete for post season this year. Even without injuries, we really didn’t have what it takes to get to the playoffs.”

Without injuries:

Line-up: McCann, Teixeira, Johnson, Jones, Escobar, Diaz/Blanco, Kotsay, Francoeur

Bench: Blanco/Diaz, Infante, Prado, Norton, Miller (Pena woulda been better, but oh, well)

Starters: Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Jurrjens

Bullpen: Gonzalez, Soriano, Moylan, Bennett, Campillo, Ohman, Boyer/Carlyle/Ring/Stockman

Now, how in the world can you say that that roster could not have gotten the Braves to the playoffs?!?!?

SG: *”The critical problems, in order of detriment, are: One - Liberty Media:”

Excuse me, but you have no credible insight on this issue. What are your credentials, and the sources of your inside perspective? You fail to convince.

Two - Bobby Cox: what do you think of Ron Gardenhire?

Three - Braves fans: now you’re just being ridiculous.

J.D. Phillips: “It would be o.k. for the door to slam on Gotsay’s back as he headed out also.”

Do you mean Gotay, or Kotsay? Or have the two merged into some uber-evil entitiy in your febrile mind?

jb: “The Braves will do what they always do, trade prospects to fill holes.”

Yepper, the same way they traded Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Prado, Blanco, Francoeur, McCann, Sammons, Morton, Glavine, Boyer, Stockman, Moylan and all those other guys. You sure got their number, bubba — there’s no foolin’ you, is there?.

By Murphy

July 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Oliver Perez is NOT a top of the rotation starter which is what the Braves should be after. Shaun you may love him. Great. He is inconsistant and wild and I believe known to not have his head on straight which leads to his inconsistancy. Again (like I said yesterday) sound like anyone we already know and just sent down to AAA? Great stuff, probably…but they have not put it together. That is the FINE line beetween potential and great in this league.

By Murphy

July 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Oliver Perez is NOT a top of the rotation starter which is what the Braves should be after. Shaun you may love him. Great. He is inconsistant and wild and I believe known to not have his head on straight which leads to his inconsistancy. Again (like I said yesterday) sound like anyone we already know and just sent down to AAA? Great stuff, probably…but they have not put it together. That is the FINE line beetween potential and great in this league.

By GT80

July 30, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Well, I said this back in June, and now it really is true. Now I know what it feels like to be a Pittsburgh Pirates fan. And let me tell you, it stinks.

By Murphy

July 30, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

From Heyman at SI Major league executives believe the Braves did very well to get young first baseman Casey Kotchman (plus minor league pitcher Stephen Marek) for star first baseman Mark Teixeira, who’s on the cusp of free agency. Maybe they didn’t quite recoup what they sent Texas for Teixeira — catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus, pitcher Matt Harrison, etc. — but Kotchman is a solid, slick-fielding first baseman. “Great deal by the Braves,” said one NL executive.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 30, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Keeping Ohman and giving him a $3-4 million contract next year doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t really know how strong of a correlation there exists is between the number of innings pitched/appearances over one season to the development of major arm troubles in pitchers, but it sure seems like a pretty strong correlation to me. Ohman has pitched a heck of a lot of games this year and on top of that Bobby has him warming up almost nightly.

I remember last year when Bobby used Moylan like that and it was always said that Moylan had a so-called “rubber arm” then all of sudden the rubber snapped and we were without a major component of our BP. The way Bobby is using up Ohman this year it just makes me weary of signing him for any sort of contract next year or for many years after. If I were the Braves I would get rid of him ASAP because it won’t be long before Ohman is going to see Dr. Andrews.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

PopeVan, don’t know if they plan to be active in free agency or try to fill needs through trading prospects. I’d say they’d have to be a bit more active than usual in free agency to fill their needs, but no team official has indicated yet which way they’re leaning, or if they’ve firmed up such plans. Still got to wait for dust to settle after we see how any more trades go and get the Hudson news.

By Drummerdad

July 30, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Tex impressed me as a likable guy, talented, and hard working ball player. But the parting comments seemed somewhat disingenuous, maybe coached by Boras. Wanted to stay in ATL., would’ve negotiated during the season, and such. But said during ST that he was focusing on playing and that the time for that stuff was during the off season. Sounds like words put in his mouth by the same who tried to upstage the World Series last year.

By Shamus Thacker

July 30, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Considering the NBA minimum salary is 1.7-mil, I do think 3-4-mil would be a bargain for Ohman. How much would it cost to replace him with similar ability? And the guy is funny as Hell!

Why is 3-4-mil too much for him?

By wg

July 30, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Come on Guys. FURCAL???? He left as a free agent for more money. He’ll want more again. Leave the SS & 2nd Base alone and get the LF help we really need.

Blanco in CF for a year or so will get the speed at the top of the lineup.

Why is everyone so sour on KJ. He’s still young and realatively inexperienced at 2nd base but in the right circumstances, he can hit. He’s never going to be an all-star but he is a good ballplayer.

Address the acrual need of the team. HELL NO to OLIVER PEREZ.

By Random by TEXTure © News Service

July 30, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: “Even better, have a backup catcher who could fill in at a couple of other positions so you could keep him fresh.”

You mean, like Brayan Pena?

wg: “We shuld be getting rid of Glavine 8 mil. Smoltz 12 mil”

Why?!?!?

IgCognito: ” … it appears the Rays are in “deep” discussions about Bay. Would that increase the Sox’s urgency to want to add Tex? We will never know…”

Wrong. I know already — no, it wouldn’t.

Andy K.: ” … wouldn’t it be more likely McCann bats clean-up, and Kotchman fifth?”

I think (hope) so. Or 6th.

IgCognito: “Many things could happen…but [I] will never know.”

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

DOB

Good points about players wanting to play for Cox.

Another reason why I think that Sheets and Sabathia might be possibilities, regardless of whether or not they think they can “win big” in 2009 in Atlanta, is the presence of Cox.

Even with Cox clearly in his final years, there has to be a feeling that he has put enough of a stamp on the culture of this franchise, that it won’t all just fall apart when he walks away. In essence, the Braves will hire a replacement that shares many of his same attributes, if they can find one.

That being said, everyone who cares to pay any attention knows that I am not Cox’s most adamant supporter. In addition, I think the Braves could benefit from a change in Manager. However, at this pivotal time in the franchise’s future, having Cox as Manager could truly be a great asset to the team, as we try to bring in quality players to re-shape this team for the future.

By Andy K.

July 30, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, Others; I don’t want to trade Ohman, we should re-sign him. But as DOB said, right now that doesn’t look to be the way things are going. There fore, why not take a chance and trade him to the Rays, for OF Jonny Gomes. Yes, he’s having an off year, but we don’t need him to be on this year. look at his previous stats, marginal numbers, yes, but he still has contributed at a steady pace in the past. Plus, i hear he’s a gamer, Ryan Freel-type. The kind of guy Bobby Cox loves to have on his team, and the kind of guy who will give the Braves all he’s got He could definatley help this organization in the OF. Are you reading, Frank Wren?

By Thrillhouse44

July 30, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Notorious, any quotes or reaction by Bobby Cox about the trade? I haven’t seen his thoughts about this anywhere. Just curious to see what he said about it.

Go Braves!

By The Goche

July 30, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t know where you people get the idea that Liberty Media ownership is some sort of disfunctional situation that is the reason the Braves haven’t made the playoffs.

Everyone says “they said they were going to raise salaries this year and look what we got!”

Well guess what. The Braves opening day salary this year went up over 10%. On opening day the team’s payroll was about 102 mill. Last season it was 87 mill and in general for the last several years it was around 90 mill (all according to mlbcontracts.blogspot.com).

No Liberty is not as good as Ted, they never were going to be. And no the idea of being owned by a corporation is not as nice as the idea of being owned by a single person. But most individual owners are not Ted. Would we be better with Peter Angelos, or Bill Pohlan. Many of the worst (and lowest payroll) teams in baseball are owned by a single person.

We have a company willing to put forth a pretty solid amount of money. Guess what people, there are only so many Teds, Morenos or even Steinbrenners.

Shoot we could have the Wilpons! They put up some big money! The thing you have to remember is even the owners who put up the money aren’t all Ted or Arte types who just give the money and let his management take control. Would you rather have some rich meddlers?

By Drummerdad

July 30, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, Based on what you know of the coming free agent market for starting pitchers, who do you think would be a good fit for the Braves? Or is the better option trading for another starter?

By BT

July 30, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

The Braves have had an unbelievable year with injuries. Some of their key components did not come through like they were expected (Right Field). How does that make the Braves a dysfunctional organization? Totally bs.

By Lew

July 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

I think most of the Denizens believe I’m one of the biggest Homers in blogland-so positively inclined as to be delusional. Maybe so, maybe not. However…….

The time has come to sever ties with old, used to be great players that at one time took us to the Promised Land (or at least to the neighborhood) and realize that all they can possibly provide at this late date is more stagnation of the sort we’ve witnessed for three seasons.

I think it’s time to realize that -

A.Glavine is no longer going to be effective IF he doesn’t retire to begin with

B. Maddux just won his first game in fifteen starts. He is, at best, a five inning pitcher that may or may not be effective on any given day

C.Smoltz has had five arm surgeries and despite his overactive sense of competition and fire, may well not have what it takes to return at all and IF he deems himself capable, should only be offered a minor league contract-IF THAT.

D. Furcal is coming off of a season of severe injury problems and will be expensive even in his injured state (why should he not have a recurrence of back problems? Does the name Kotsay sound familiar?). It must also be realized he took us nowhere when he WAS in good shape.

This is the Braves first major opportunity in years to actually take the team in a different direction. We have seen that mediocrity is not what we want, is not what will put @$$e$ in stadium seats and is not going to make anyone happy. We have the available salary for the first time in over a decade and it’s time to take the team in a slightly different direction-no longer relying on “Reunions” with former fan favorites or players who used to be great but aren’t anymore. Hopefully the Powers That Be will see this and act accordingly. This is their chance.

Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux and Furcal were great Braves players-WERE. Retire their numbers, have a big celebration and acknowledge how much we loved having them play for us. DON’T sign them again just to prove how much we care.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Considering the NBA minimum salary is 1.7-mil Shamus Thacker

That is not the NBA minimum. That amount is referencing the 2-year deal signed by Randolph Morris, and is the total he will receive over the 2-year contract, not per year.

I think you can even sign an undrafted rookie for less money, but I’m not 100%.

Randolph Morris will make about $850,000 this season as a Hawk.

Not clear what that has to do with Will Ohman, and the 90, or so innings he will pitch for a a Major League team next year.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

It was a year ago that the Atlanta Braves traded five pieces of their farm system to the Texas Rangers for Mark Teixeira and Ron Mahay. The hope then was that Teixeira would return to the city where he went to college and thrive and hoist Atlanta to October glory.

And Teixeira did hammer the ball in August and September, driving in 56 runs after he joined the Braves. But Atlanta’s starting pitching crumbled and didn’t make it to October. The Braves slogged through more injuries at the beginning of this season, when Teixeira didn’t hit. And he balked at signing a multi-year deal to stay in Atlanta.

With the trade deadline looming and Teixeira only a couple of months away from achieving free agency, first-year Braves GM Frank Wren, who took over for John Schuerholz last fall, was left to make the best of a bad situation. Yes, the Braves checked in with a number of teams on Teixeira, but that’s a long way from serious and aggressive interest, and in the end Wren had to choose between a couple of flawed offers. He wanted Conor Jackson from the Diamondbacks, but Arizona offered Chad Tracy instead. So Wren took the Casey Kotchman proposal from the Angels, which was made possible only because Kotchman has generally failed to reach expectations.

If Kotchman — the younger, cheaper player — had been generating more than his .327 on-base percentage and his .448 slugging percentage, the Angels would not have considered making this deal. But the Angels’ first basemen are 22nd in OPS and 22nd in RBIs this season, so they were willing to ship three years of Kotchman, who won’t be eligible for free agency until after the 2011 season, for two months of Teixeira.

Maybe Kotchman will take a major step forward in Atlanta, or maybe not. Either way, we are one step closer to tabulating the Braves’ final bill on Teixeira. In his one year with the team, the Braves went 77-83, and ranked 13th in runs per game in the big leagues. Meanwhile, the five players they shipped to Texas are making their own journeys:

Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the switch-hitting catcher, is hitting .232, and increasingly, there are questions about how much he’s going to hit in the big leagues.

Left-hander Matt Harrison is 2-1 with a 7.32 ERA with the Rangers.

Elvis Andrus, a slick-fielding shortstop, is hitting .291 with 43 stolen bases in Double-A.

Lefty Beau Jones has a 2.93 ERA in Class A.

Right-handed pitcher Neftali Feliz is 8-3 with a 2.46 ERA this season and has reached Double-A, and has racked up 127 strikeouts in 102 1/3 innings.

Feliz may turn out to have the biggest impact in the majors, and Andrus and Saltalamacchia are poised to have long careers in the big leagues. Time will tell on Harrison and Jones, but as a group, there is the great potential for low-price quality service in the majors, for years to come.

So there is no way that the Teixeira deal could be looked at as anything but an enormous bust for the Braves, and an enormous success for the Rangers and general manager Jon Daniels.

The Braves made an aggressive, bold move in an effort to win, and the effort backfired. You can bet that other general managers will remember this when they are similarly tempted in the months and years to come, as they consider similar deals for stars marching toward free agency, like a Matt Holliday or a Prince Fielder.

The trade of Teixeira had to be done, writes Mark Bradley. Kotchman considers the trade a blessing, because it probably means he’ll get to play more regularly.

Meanwhile, a couple of the Atlanta pitchers are going to get checked out by Dr. James Andrews. Atlanta got wrecked on Tuesday, fielding a depleted lineup. Within this Carroll Rogers piece, there is word of an odd scene in the Atlanta clubhouse:

(Inside the clubhouse, it was awkward. An hour before the game, with teammates in earshot, Teixeira gushed to reporters that the Angels were “the best team in baseball.” While also being complimentary of his former teammates, it had a strange ring. Braves coaches recognized the situation and ushered Braves players into other areas of the clubhouse.)

Very, very rarely do you see deals designed specifically to upgrade a team for the postseason, and even then, it’s usually a swap for a matchup reliever who has some good history against a rival slugger. But that’s precisely what this deal is for the Angels, because nothing that Teixeira does or doesn’t do is going to have any impact on the Angels’ standing in the next two months: They were almost certainly going to make the playoffs with or without Teixeira.

But once the price for the All-Star first baseman dropped into their price range, they seized the opportunity, in an effort to bolster the power of a lineup that looked overmatched against the Red Sox last fall. Tony Reagins, the Angels’ GM, didn’t shy away from his conference call with reporters Tuesday night. “We’re in this to win a world championship,” said Reagins.

Said Teixeira: “A World Series for me would make this trade successful.”

No player will have more at stake than Teixeira in this postseason. If he performs well in October, a la Carlos Beltran in 2004, then he will lay solid groundwork for nine-figured demands that his agent Scott Boras will make. If he performs poorly and the Angels get knocked out in the first or second round of the playoffs, then some GMs and owners will remember that — and the fact that there really wasn’t a rabid market for him at the trade deadline — and probably wonder what his actual value is.

I have to agree with Buster. A bust, because the Braves goal was to make the post season, and they didn’t. Credit them for being agressive, but instead of holding onto those prospects and trading for Dan Haren in the offseason, they went for a hitter.

Pitching wins folks. Pitching.

By wg

July 30, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Random by UBIK

2 Platoon outfields are unheard of. I think Diaz is gone and you need speed at the top of the order so for right now, Blanco in CF makes more sense. You are not going to get the power the team needs from LF is you platoon these guys. Also, leave Infante alone. He is filling a great roll right now. If he can spell in the infield and occasionally the outfield next year, that would be great. Don’t forget about Prado as well. One platoon is hard enough on a team, but 2 wouldn’t work at all. Remember, these guys get PAID to PLAY and should be able to handle the job every day.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

That 12:13 PM post was from Buster Olney

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

The Oracle, batting average is the least important of those stats.

Well, I said this back in June, and now it really is true. Now I know what it feels like to be a Pittsburgh Pirates fan. And let me tell you, it stinks.

Really? You know what it’s like not to sniff .500 ball since 1992? You know what it’s like to watch your team trade useful veterans to contenders for more mediocre veterans? I’m sorry, but if you really are a Braves fan, I seriously doubt you know what it’s like to be a Pirates fan unless you are older than say 35-40.

By Goodoleboy58

July 30, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Well it’s a new day and we got a new First bagger… I’m excited let’s win some games.

By TexasBrave

July 30, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

DOB - Wouldn’t you say that Bobby is the primary reason for Atlanta being organization they are? That once he leaves, either this year or next, Atlanta will no longer be the team everyone would like to play for all things being equal. Wouldn’t you also think that would figure into a player’s consideration in coming or staying here in the near future?

By From First to Worst

July 30, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

I was surprised last night when I got a text from a buddy in Dallas asking if I had the scoop on Tex. He works for a sports radio station in Dallas for the last 2 years - worked on an LA sports radio station for several years before that. Anyway, he said that everyone he had talked to in Dallas who had covered Tex when he was with the Rangers said that he was a giant a-hole and none of the media guys liked him. I told him I had never heard anything remotely like that while he was in ATL.

He also thinks the Braves got “raped” in the trade - funny how outsiders see things. He’s a big Dodgers fan and I couldn’t resist replying “oh really, andruw?”

I hope we can keep Ohman. Everyone talks about payroll but look at the marlins, the rays, … YOUNG, hungry teams with great chemistry and talent. Many of the Rays players were home grown in their farm system. The Braves can’t keep guys together long enough to develop them fully and to create that much needed team chemistry.

About that dead body on the Delta flight…it wasn’t Kotchman was it? Bad joke but with the season this team has had would anybody be surprised?

By jason

July 30, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren had nothing to do with the Tex trade. SO far his trades have been amazing! Especially the Tigers trade that brought us back our new ace in Jurrjens and the 40th ranked prospect in all of baseball. The Ohman trade was also great for us. The Kotchman/Tex trade was no different. I think he’ll be every bit as good as JS.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t want Oliver Perez, at least not as a priority. Especially not for 12+ million over 4 years. That may very well be the “fair market value” but that doesn’t make it a good decision to put him ahead of other acquisitions. The guy has a career ERA+ of 96, below average. He’s a career 4.36 ERA guy with less than a 2/1 K/BB ratio. He lasts 5.2 innings a start. He has never pitched 200 innings in a season, and while a back end starter isn’t needed to do so, after the last two seasons of crap from the rotation, I would like to see this team do more to cover its rotation by obtaining guys that have the ability to step up in the event of an injury. Perez doesn’t fit that bill. Additionally Perez has been mainly in pitcher parks for his career, his road ERA is 4.77. And he is amazingly inconsistent.

This team needs a power hitting outfielder, another Ace starter, possibly a second starter, and a restocked bullpen. There is about 45 million in budgetary room. A slugger is going to cost money. A starter is going to cost money. Current players will get raises. The rest might come from trades which may mean the team has to field another position on the roster and/or cover acquired salary increases.
I wouldn’t be opposed to Perez if this team filled all its other needs with quality players first. If there’s room left in the budget for Perez and he is still needed, then take a look at him. But he wouldn’t top my list of off season acquisitions.

And on a different topic, I don’t think Kotchman will be the clean up hitter. I think that will probably go to the eventual LF or McCann prior to Kotchman. But we’ll see. The team could change some more before next season…

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Different Take, so you would have rather had Scott Thorman and Julio Franco playing first down the stretch in 2007 and possibly through this season?

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Why is everyone so sour on KJ. He’s still young and realatively inexperienced at 2nd base but in the right circumstances, he can hit. He’s never going to be an all-star but he is a good ballplayer.

Because he 1) makes way too many errors and 2) He strikes out too much. Not worth the trade off of being a decent hitter in the “right situation”. He may lose more games than he wins. Therefore he probably belongs in the bullpen. I just wish BC would replace him with a capable 2nd sacker in the late innings with a lead.

By Random by Bialystock & Bloom©

July 30, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Shamus Thacker: “Considering the NBA minimum salary is 1.7-mil, I do think 3-4-mil would be a bargain for Ohman… . Why is 3-4-mil too much for him?”

Because he’s got no hops, he can’t score, rebound, block shots or defend, he throws up bricks and he never takes it to the hole?

What a jaw-droppingly ignorant and laughable premise. The MLB minimum salary is $390,000, one-tenth your “bargain”.

PS: And YAI for that incoherent and mean-spirited Tex rant, too.

wg: “Come on Guys. FURCAL???? He left as a free agent for more money. He’ll want more again.”

Maybe so, but we got more money nowadays.

wg: “Leave the SS & 2nd Base alone and get the LF help we really need.”

Maybe return Johnson to LF? Would that be jerking him around too much, or do you think he might be more comfortable back in LF again?

*Tomahawk Kris * — good point about Ohman maybe heading for a break-down thru over-use.

By David O'Brien

July 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Shamus, what does the average NBA salary have to do with the cost of a situational lefty or setup reliever? I’m scratching my head on that one, my friend.

Why not compare $3-4 mill to the average annual salary of top executives at Fortune 500 companies, while you’re at it. Or to the average salary of teachers. They’d all be about as relevant as comparing it to the average NBA salary.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Many of the Rays players were home grown in their farm system. The Braves can’t keep guys together long enough to develop them fully and to create that much needed team chemistry.

umm…six of eight Braves that are in the lineup pretty much every game are homegrown.

He also thinks the Braves got “raped” in the trade - funny how outsiders see things.

So your friend speaks for all outsiders?

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Different Take, so you would have rather had Scott Thorman and Julio Franco playing first down the stretch in 2007 and possibly through this season?

It isn’t that simple, is it? Who knows how the GM could of filled the other needs. Please dude. Please.

I commend them for being aggressive, but it was a bust. It doesn’t mean I didn’t agree with the trade at the time, but it is still a bust.

S**, Olney agreed with the trade at the time. Who didn’t?

For the 15th time, It was still a bust.

By Greg in TN

July 30, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Top ‘O the afternoon everyone…

DOB: That’d work for me, now we’d just have to get someone to stand in for Levi Walker, the original Chief, but sign me up, I’ll even bring the chain to wrap around the cow (sorry Chick-Fil-A folks, the timing of the marketing decision for the cow got you guys at a bad time, nothing personal).

N8: We’re on the same page in terms of Furcal. It was like nails on the chalkboard everytime I saw the guy swing up on a pitch trying to reach the seats and popped up to 2nd. If we get the guy that sprays the ball to all fields and can set the table for Chipper and Company, that’s fine by me.

Savannah Guy: Hmmmm. Never thought of being an enabler to the degree you mentioned in your 9:45. I just thought I was following the team I love since I was a kid. A homer? Probably so. That’s not a four letter word to me like it is for some people here.

Got to agree with The Goche on his 12:03 post. I haven’t seen anything to this point that convinces me that Liberty has been a drain on resources for this franchise. That’s no guarantee that it won’t happen, but I also believe that Liberty doesn’t always get a fair shake from the denizens based on what has happened to this point.

There are very few owners out there that A) have unlimited financial resources and B) have the trust in their baseball folks to make the right decisions to run the franchise. Even Ted did not understand that until BC came back from Toronto as GM and it took him several years to untangle the mess that this franchise had become in the late 80s.

There’s a guy that may understand that now that has bid for the Cubs (Mark Cuban). Cuban certainly has the cash, and if he ends up with the team, I wonder if he’ll just sign the checks and let Jim Hendry make the baseball decisions. If that does happen, watch out, because I feel like the Cubs will be very formidable for years to come in the Central.

This off-season will be telling in terms of how Liberty, Terry McGuirk and Frank Wren roll up their collective sleeves and piece together a roster for 2009. I happen to agree with Wren, the nucleus is there in McCann, Escobar, Gonzalez, Kotchman and Jurrjens. I think that if Francoeur rebounds in 2009, throw his name back into that mix, but he’s obviously going to have to improve.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

The Oracle, how many errors are too many? Again, Orlando Hudson and Rickie Weeks have almost as many errors in fewer total chances. Jeff Kent, Felipe Lopez and Kaz Matsui have as many or almost as many in over 100 fewer chances.

And how much is too much when it comes to striking out? Johnson still has very good on-base skills and solid power.

By N8

July 30, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“…so you would have rather had Scott Thorman and Julio Franco playing first down the stretch in 2007 and possibly through this season?”

In hindsight, knowing that both the 2007 stretch run AND the 2008 seasons were failures (in reaching the post-season)…..YES.

I would have rather traded those prospects for another pitcher (perhaps Haren), and the money that was spent on Tex this year (12.5 million - along with the 8 million that was spent on Glavine, which would have been unnecessary with a guy like Haren in the mix ), could have been spent on a better 1B option than Thorman for 2008. Or perhaps a better LF option.

Like I said….hindsight. But you should know by now, that I wasn’t that “hip” to the Tex trade from the get go. Thought the results would be better (in playoff appearances), but worried about the long-term affect.

At least we got Kotchman out of it, right? Which makes it a better transaction than the Wainwright for Drew swap, IMO. At least we are getting a player that is under our control for a few years.

By brent a.

July 30, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Lew

I’m in agreement with you on moving forward.

It can be easy to want to “reach back” to the glory days, and in doing so, view them even more fondly than they actually were.

I also agree with you about Furcal’s back. It’s dangerous.

That being said, if Furcal proves to be our best option for 2B in 2009, then he’s our best option. (I am not saying that he is, I’m just saying).

Part of the reason teams do have a tendency to “go back in time”, is because in some instances, those are the situations where the players are also willing to work with you.

If Tom Glavine was not a former Brave, then he wouldn’t have signed here for the price he signed.

The thought on Furcal is likely that he may want to come back, and in doing so, may not try and break the bank to come here. And again, if he’s the best option, then you try and make it happen.

That said, you’re right, we didn’t advance in the post-season (other than 2001) with Furcal, and he does have a bad back, AND he might want a contract larger than we can afford.

So, in the end, we’ll see.

I think SS/2nd base is not an area where the Braves are going to go “stop-gap” like they have with LF in certain recent years (most notably 2005, the year of Jondesi). Mainly because they don’t need to make SS/2nd a stop-gap area. We have Escobar, Lillibridge, Johnson and Prado. The only reason Management goes after Furcal is if they are convinced that he represents a definite upgrade over at least 2 of those guys (and of course, what they think they can net in return for some of those guys will also be taken into consideration).

But in the end, I agree with your thought process.

Going back in time may well get us more of what we’ve seen the last 3 years. And nobody wants that.

By Run Heap Run

July 30, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I don’t think I ever remember seeing a baseball player do this. I know Shaq did it when he left LA but other than that I can’t think of anyone doing it before.

CC Sabathia has class

By Truman

July 30, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOB

I truly believe you are sincere in your ongoing support of Bobby Cox, though it does make navigating through the clubhouse a bit easier for you.

I’m sure you’ve noticed the overwhelming sentiment on this blog is that it’s time for a change at the top. You seem to have a bit of contempt for those who feel that way.

But in your most objective moments haven’t you wondered if someone else could not have squeezed a few more World Series championships out of all that talent? Or pulled the right strings to get a victory in that ridiculous one-run road losing streak. I would think close games are where a good manager makes a difference.

As for all those superstars who’ve said how wonderful it would be to play for Bobby Cox and this organization, too bad it hasn’t happened.

I suspect they’ve said the same thing about other managers and organizations and it was eagerly and dutifully reported by those team’s beat writers.

I’d also guess that Bobby would have been eased out the door a few years ago in tougher towns—with tougher media.

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, what do you feel the odds are that Ohman and/or Kotsay will be traded? Ohman should give us a half decent prospect, no?

By jtb

July 30, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

What do y’all think about going after Pat Burrell this off season? I’m not a huge fan of him, but he could give us some corner outfield power and if Francoeur can prove that this year was just a fluke then could have a pretty good outfield of Francoeur, Blanco, and Burrell.

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Put it this way: I’d guarantee you that if the Braves made 10 top free agents an offer that matched the other best offer they got from any other team, and I mean Yankees, Red Sox, any other team, at least half of those players would choose the Braves. I have no way of proving this, of course…

David O’Brien – Like ‘ol George might say, I suppose we’ll just have to live in a two story house… you’ll have your story and I’ll have mine.

Here’s the thing, up until about two or three years ago I’d have whole-heartedly agreed with your opinion. Not today. Obviously neither of us can prove our points unless that situation you illustrated actually occurred, which it won’t.

As far as thinking your opinion is garbage, I don’t. I don’t even think that way, unlike a few of your other denizens. You have a great baseball insight and you obviously see and hear more inside Braves stuff than anyone here. I tend to agree with or at least appreciate your Braves perspective on a regular basis. On this matter, we just disagree. If the players you mentioned were asked I have no doubt they would ‘say’ they’d prefer to play in Atlanta for Cox. It’s almost like them giving him a compliment on his career and recognition for his easygoing clubhouse manner and likeability.

Maddux would possibly come back to Atlanta for the same or even less money, based on his relationship with Cox, Smoltz, Glavine and others and due to being near the end of his own playing career. But If those other players were actually offered the same money to play here in a transitional time with unknown ownership issues and a manager that is and should be retiring, then they’d offer a few very nice platitudes and go play where they could win.

Atlanta is a great city. There are other very nice cities. Star athletes want to win.

By anti-brave

July 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Truman belts one out of the park. I mean he just plattered it. A tape measure shot if there ever was one. DOB stands on the mound, watching it sail over the wall in total disbelief unable to even speak.

I decided that one post from me would not hurt, considering how unpopular Coach is these days.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 30, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Mostly agree with your 12:08, with the major exception of Smoltz. If it looks like he can return, I don’t see how the Braves can not let him. He’s not going to pull a Clemens or a Favre and leave the Braves hanging year to year. If he and the medical staff are confident he can be effective, he should get a chance to pitch. Yes, the salary will be high, but the franchise owes him that opportunity.

Besides, if he’s healthy, he’ll get people out.

On another note, now that 2008 is a lost cause, I’m going to be nice to Francouer. This may be his chance, in a low-pressure atmosphere, to find his game.

If between now and October he puts up a line comparable to or better than his 2007 season stats — .293/.338/.444 — I’ll get off his case. Two months is plenty of time to move things in the right direction.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Different Take, how do you define bust? It’s a bust only because the Braves failed to make the playoffs or win the Series? Tex played well enough. The Braves failure to make the playoffs had little or nothing to do with the Tex trade. He played well enough to increase their chances to make the playoffs, and that’s all they could have asked for.

It isn’t that simple, is it? Who knows how the GM could of filled the other needs. Please dude. Please.

Well, they were going with Thorman, Franco, Salty at first right up until July 31, 2007.

By Tomas

July 30, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

DOB,

When is Manny Acosta coming back? And how much do you think Ben Sheets will demand this offseason?

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun

You sound like one of those guys trying to sell me junk at the flea market. “yes, this Timex was made in the same factory as a rolex. One can barely tell the difference.”

You spend two much time comparing negative traits. That should tell you something. Do I really care what other mediocre players did? No. There’s a job that needs to be done and he can’t do it. I suggest a try at the outfield.

By Flower Man

July 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Wren is going to have a tough time fielding a team that can with the division next season.

Kotchman stats wise is a downgrade from Tex, but just maybe the guy makes his hits count in meaningful ways, ways that Tex didn’t. His glove is probably close to Tex so we’ll call that a wash.

If Kotchman doesn’t turn into an outstanding first baseman it’s ok because I have a feeling a guy named Freeman is going to occupie 1B for years to come. Just probably not until sometime in 2010. He’s got over 50 Xtra base hits at Rome. He & Hayward are a helluva 1-2 down there.

Also for Myrtle Beach Owings is having a break out season. Good power #’s & his average is nearing .300. Hernandez is having a good season as well. Also Travis Jones the 7th round pick from last season is putting up some good power & offensive #’s.

That’s the bad part for the Braves is their best prospects for the most part are not ready yet. Other than Hanson & maybe Schaefer the rest are 2010 or later probably. There may be a few fringe players that could be considered close.

Redmond has pitched very well this season although I really don’t know much about him other than stats. That’s who the Braves got for Yates.

My 2010/11 line up

CF G. Hernandez or Schaefer

RF Hayward

LF Owings

1B Kotchman or Freeman

2B Travis Jones

SS Escobar

3B Chipper

C McCann

I’m probably over estimating the developement on some of the prospects, but who knows.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

In hindsight, knowing that both the 2007 stretch run AND the 2008 seasons were failures (in reaching the post-season)…..YES [they should have went with Thorman, Franco, etc.].

My point exactly. You convince me that Schuerholz and Wren can see into the future, and I’ll grant you that the Teixeira trade was a bad one.

At least we got Kotchman out of it, right? Which makes it a better transaction than the Wainwright for Drew swap, IMO. At least we are getting a player that is under our control for a few years.

oh, geez! Here we go with JD Drew. Drew put up and MVP-type season. Wainwright was a young pitcher. Again, convince me that Schuerholz has the ability to see into the future and I’ll grant you that this was a bad trade.

By IgCognito

July 30, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Run Heap Run, Damon did the same type of thing when he left the Sox to go to the Skanks.

By Couch Tater

July 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Brent a

Thanks for adding to my blog depression.I wanted to see Knopler @ the Ryman a couple of weeks ago and it slipped past me.

So, let’s talk about something upbeat like Scott Boras.

By Lee

July 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Calling the Tex trade a bust is a little presumptuous. And Olney declaring the Rangers the big winner when they have gotten very minimal production in the majors so far to show for it is ridiculous.

If Tex had hit .250 and hit 15-20 HRs then yeah we got screwed. But he put up the numbers you would expect (see article above) and Mahay was good down the stretch last year. The trade wasn’t the reason we didn’t make the playoffs last year or are in fourth this year.

If none of the players we gave up ever become all stars or even regular starters, is it still a bust? What if the Angles lose in the divisional series or Kotchman develops some power?

We still may have made the trade over the winter since we needed a 1B. I’m not saying it was a perfect deal, but aquiring Teixeira was the right move at the right time. At least give it some time to make a judgement on what we gave up.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Well, they were going with Thorman, Franco, Salty at first right up until July 31, 2007.

So they keep Salty, take their chances and play him out of position for the rest of 2007. Then trade him, Andrus, Feliz, Harrison and Jones to the A’s for Dan Haren or another pitcher from another team.

I think my problem is that you think the Braves couldn’t have acquired a different stop gap first baseman for the rest of the 2007 season.

Bust=Trade backfired horribly

And that is what happened.

By Mike

July 30, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

I’m probably over estimating the developement on some of the prospects, but who knows.

Big time bro. Big time…..

By DAP

July 30, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

savanna guy Even without injuries, we really didn’t have what it takes to get to the playoffs.

im pretty sure thats incorrect. we would have had all the elements that make a great, not good, great team. dominant starting pitching, (but smoltz went down, and glavine, and hampton couldnt start, even our emergency guy, chuck james was injured) a very tight bullpen (gonzalez was already hurt, losing moylan was a big blow, and something was up with soriano…our three best relievers) and our lineup hasnt been consistant all year because of guys missing time (kelly johnson, escobar, kotsay, diaz, chipper, now mccann, prado, infante all missed games)

sorry savanna guy, but your post is erroneous. injuries killed our season, and took a team that would have been in the world series if they were injury free, and made them a 4th place team.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Well in viewing the Teixeira trade soley as a means to get to the post season, then there is no other conclusion other than it was a bust. But that is a rather limited means of viewing it.
This team didn’t make it to the post season not because of Teixeira but because of a shody pitching staff and a rash of injuries to that shody pitching staff.
If one simply views this trade in terms of production of parts, it was not a bust. Teixeira kicked @ss while he was here and Ron Mahay was great as well. All parts dealt were from a position of depth which didn’t hurt this team.
Yes, in hindsight I would have rather acquired Haren over Teixeira. But I would have thought that no matter what, Haren is under control for several seasons while Teixeira was a year plus from walking.
But I would have liked to have had both.

What ever the case I think it would be foolish to look back at that deal and say the Braves should have never made it. Not making it wouldn’t have brought any better fortune to this team. And that was the goal, to improve the team and make a run for the postseason. Not making the deal would have not made that a remote possibility. As for this line in Buster’s synopsis

You can bet that other general managers will remember this when they are similarly tempted in the months and years to come, as they consider similar deals for stars marching toward free agency, like a Matt Holliday or a Prince Fielder

That is rather ridiculous. Other GM’s are going to look at their team and assess that Fielder or Holliday would be an offensive upgrade over what they currently have, just as the Braves did with Teixeira. But apparently these GM’s will remember the Teixeira trade and back away? What? So they will assume that making a deal for Fielder or Holliday will result in a rash of injuries to their rotation which suddenly aged to an average of 35 years as their two “aces” jumped up to the over 40 line and one member hasn’t pitched in a major league game in 3 years? I doubt it. Buster made good work of over looking everything. I’m sure any other GM will assess their team and figure out if they have the potential to have 4 out of 5 of their starting rotation hit the DL along with their CF, 3B, and top bullpen arms. And if so, maybe then they will recall the Teixeira deal. Otherwise I’d imagine they’ll lean back more on the Fred McGriff deal as an example of what can happen when a slugger is added to an otherwise healthy and productive team. (And for that, Teixeira did quite nicely, but he is no medicine man).

By Savannah Guy

July 30, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Random – That is the lineup that lost all of those one run games, right? As much as we were devastated by injuries with our pitching staff, pitching was not the problem in the first half. It will be in the second half, along with continued poor execution of fundamentals. If I didn’t convince you of anything then I suppose that says something about both of us. Let me take your other numbered points:

One: Since when are you the judge of credible insight and since when were bloggers required to provide sources, build a case or support opinion or commentary with details? You prove me wrong. LOL

Two: Ron Gardenhire? How about Chance Gardener? Your point?

Three: Yes, fans can be ridiculous. Look around. OK, maybe I was too tough on the fans. Maybe not.

Greg in TN – We’re both old Braves fans then. Sorry you felt lumped into that part of my fan overview. I’ll always be a Braves fan too, which is why I bother to post an opinion on this board. Otherwise, I’d just turn the channel and watch another team. But look around… you’ll see it. Like Yogi, you can learn a lot just by watching… and readin’.

If the idiot Mark Cuban does buy the Cubs, no doubt he’ll eventually go postal, jump on the field and go after an opposing pitcher. When that happens, I’ll enjoy seeing him ‘redacted’.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

You spend two much time comparing negative traits. That should tell you something. Do I really care what other mediocre players did? No. There’s a job that needs to be done and he can’t do it. I suggest a try at the outfield.

He can do it. He’s just adequate at it instead of great. But you and others don’t notice because you are obsessed with a dropped fly ball.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun

If you f*** up at work because you couldn’t “see into the future”, what the hell happens man?

Not saying Wren of JS should get fired, but please don’t use the “see into the future” excuse.

You are smarter than that.

I think.

By ernesto

July 30, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Shaun - There are many a blogger who believe in trades like C.James, Thorman, and Lillibridge for Crawford or some other such nonsense. So forget arguing with them.

Anyone who believes it’s the GMs job to fleece every other club out there should be prepared for a long, bitter life as a baseball fan.

And a very short tenure as a GM should they ever actually land the gig.

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Lee

Minaya trading Sizemore, Lee and Phillips for Colon sure didn’t work out. I’d say that trade was a bust. Yes, we have to wait, what, 5-7 years to figure out if it was a bust or not. That is an easy route to take in defending the trade.

I guess none of this matters then. Lets trade Heyward, Hanson and Hernandez for Jason Bay?

I mean they are prospects right?

They have maybe a decent shot at being average in the big leagues.

Get rid of them all!!!!

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

In hindsight, knowing that both the 2007 stretch run AND the 2008 seasons were failures (in reaching the post-season)…..YES

At least we got Kotchman out of it, right? Which makes it a better transaction than the Wainwright for Drew swap, IMO

Bit of a double standard there. The Teixeira trade is a bust for not making the post season, but the Drew trade was a bust despite making the post season.
How’s your cake?

By Random by Bialystock & Bloom©

July 30, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

wg: “One platoon is hard enough on a team, but 2 wouldn’t work at all.”

Tell that to Earl Weaver.

From First to Worst: “I hope we can keep Ohman… . Many of the Rays players were home grown in their farm system. The Braves can’t keep guys together long enough to develop them fully and to create that much needed team chemistry.”

Yeah, it’s a damned shame we couldn’t keep the following guys together: Glavine, Chipper, Johnson, Francoeur, McCann, Boyer, Prado, Blanco, Sammons, Morton, Stockman, Moylan and Escobar. That might could have been a damned fine team, chemistry-wise. (Btw, Ohman was home grown in the Chicago Cub’s farm system.)

GT80: “Well, I said this back in June, and now it really is true. Now I know what it feels like to be a Pittsburgh Pirates fan. And let me tell you, it stinks.”

Well, it wasn’t true back in June, and it’s still not true now.

You have no idea what it’s like for your team to lose every year for 15 or 16 years.

DOB threw out some stats the other day showing that the Braves averaged about 35 games over .500 from ‘91 ‘til mid-‘05. They’ve finished under .500 once since then. Whether they finish under .500 this year or not, there is absolutley no comparison between Braves fans’ fortunes and Pirates’ fans’ woeful state.

By bravos2249

July 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

hmm according to mlb4u

the Braves are committed to 45.5 million next year….it projected in the arbitration players too…

So if the payroll stays at 95 million the Braves will have 49.5 to spend….unless they sign Braves to bigger deals…but that would still be around 45 million….that’s good money.

(it didn’t add Tex)

By The Oracle

July 30, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Most would disagree with you as to whether KJ can do it. And there have been many more errors that cost games, ranging back to last year. And there will be more. Like I said there are holes in the OF that need filling. Prado is a good player who will do well at 2nd.

By TennesseePaul

July 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Obviously neither of us can prove our points

SG: It’s not that complicated. O’Brien could back up his position by interviewing players and getting responses. It isn’t an exact replica of the situation but it would back his position more than speculation of the opposite would.

By N Nine

July 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Its just a matter of WHEN for will ohman..Thx for the laughs and good pitching. your value is high for a free agent on a semi rebuiding braves.

By Andy K.

July 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

**Anyone catch that great quote by Matt Diaz on how the Braves season has been going? He said it right after the Tex trade. The good thing is that these guys aren’t losing hope. Here’s what Diaz said (to one effect or another…forget the exact owrding):

“Sometimes they pull the plug on life support, and you wake up, you know? Sometimes you’ve been in a coma for years, but one day, you wake up.”

By jtb

July 30, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

What exactly has Adam Wainwright done to warrant the constant complaining about the trade for J.D. Drew? Drew was great for the Braves. Led them to the playoffs. Wainwright has been good for the Cardinals, but from what I’ve seen has not been great. Yes he was a good closer for them in the playoffs. Last year his record was right around .500 and this year he’s hurt. How would he have salvaged our past 3 seasons? And why is no one complaining about us trading Odalis Perez? He’s at least beaten the Braves this year.

By duh

July 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Listen I am not a BC hater but all this “players want to play for him b.s.” is a joke. Players play for money and they will go where the money is. Did Furcal, Sheffield, Drew, Jones, Lopez, J. Wright, Millwood, Franco, Farnsworth, Glavine, Maddux. Tex or any other player ever sign here at a reduced rate just to play for BC? All of those players “loved” him. Hell no they didn’t and none will. The players love him because he won’t bust their a*. I do not ignore the accomplishments of him as a manager, but his style of pedestrian 3 run homer baseball while breaking the arm of a single reliever HAS hurt this team. They don’t run because he won’t let them. Then they need 3 singles or a HR just to score. He mutes any excitement or personality on this team. He is not good with young players, especially pitchers. This team MUST get younger and if he is not on board with that maybe it is time he head to the Hall of Fame.

By westy12

July 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

jb: “The Braves will do what they always do, trade prospects to fill holes.”

Random: “Yepper, the same way they traded Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Prado, Blanco, Francoeur, McCann, Sammons, Morton, Glavine, Boyer, Stockman, Moylan and all those other guys. You sure got their number, bubba — there’s no foolin’ you, is there?”

No, Random, you’re the one that was fooled. Again. And it only took jb’s simple factual statement to do it. To be such a pretentious, holier-than-thou a-hole, you sure have a problem with basic reading comprehension, don’t ya, bubba?

The Braves typically do trade prospects to fill holes, that is a fact. No one said the Braves trade all their prospects to fill holes, and you know it. But then facts never get in the way of your tired act, do they, Random? Instead, you distort jb’s point, take a line out of context, and try to build your imaginary self-serving case. Well done.

I’m wondering, do you try to be a dick, or does it just come naturally to you? I know you’re bitter about your beloved “Teshy” being gone, but get over it already.

By Shaun

July 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Different Take, The Braves were 3.5 games out on July 31, 2007. They hadn’t made a trade for a firstbaseman up to that point.

The have no idea what they are going to do for the remainder of the season whether they have a player like Tex at first or not. They also obviously have no idea what is going to happen in 2008 or beyond. They just know they are very close to making the playoffs and when a franchise has a chance to reach the playoffs and World Series, they should go for it.

They also know they have the players that it would take to get the biggest impact player available—Teixeira—and they know he’s under contract through 2008. Haren is not on the market at that point.

So they did what they had to do to get the biggest player available that played a position where they had a huge hole.

It’s easy now to say, “well, they should have just played sorry players at first.” But imagine if they would have done that. Imagine if it had come out that when they were 3.5 games out on July 31, they had a chance to get Mark Teixeira (who was under contract for the rest of the season and all of the next) but passed it up. You and lots of others would have called for Schuerholz’s head.

If you are criticizing the Teixeira trade, I think you have to criticize the trade that brought Fred McGriff. They traded prospects for McGriff when they were even farther out. So I suppose you think that one “backfired” too?

By N Nine

July 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

ROSENTHAL’S LATEST

The Braves chose Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek over an offer of Chad Tracy and Micah Owings from the D’Backs. I’m surprised the Diamondbacks didn’t go a little further. The Braves tried to expand the deal and send Will Ohman to the Angels, but a match could not be found. Ohman remains likely to go, with the Rays, Cardinals, and Red Sox named as suitors.

thank you wren for not picking Tracy! voices were heard! We did the best we could just like the offseason trades! I’m ok with Wren but this past OFFSEASON moves,,, its Liberty Media’s turn to STEP UP This offseason! Sign BIG

By Wayne in Utah

July 30, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Lew I will agree with you on your points, with one minor exception.

As far as John Smoltz goes, next to Bobby Cox, he (and not Chipper, in my humble opinion) is the driving force of the Braves. I have my doubts about his ability to come back. If his shoulder heals appropriately, then I would have no qualms with giving him a year to year contract to work out of the pen. Starting would be an extreme long shot.

One other thought. If Hampton comes back and wins 4-5 games here on out, then I would offer him an incentive laden contract.

I would love to see us go in a new direction to youth and building from within. If we have to sacrifice next year (Hudson out and our most advanced prospects are not advanced quite enough), then so be it.

Let please not trade guys like Hanson, Medlen, Rohrbough, Teheran, Heyward, Schafer, Freeman or Lillibridge. I would be open to deal some others for a bat for next year, or for a decent pitcher.

I am perplexed as to who we could add (trade or FA) as a true #1 or #2 type starter??? Oswalt or Halladay? Those guys would come with an extreme price tag.

Go Braves in 2009/2010!

By Renegator

July 30, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Two Things:

1) DOB - of course players want to play for Bobby Cox. He lets them do whatever they want. He does not hold them accountable for what happens on the field (inability to get down a bunt is just one example). He never sits players who are struggling, he never drops guys in the order who aren’t getting it done. It’s like a vacation for players - of course they want to come to Atlanta.

Also, what else are players going to say when you ask them about coming to Atlanta? The’re not going to say they are excited about playing for a team that is in 4th place in a mediocre division. They can’t say they are excited to play for a team that has a sub .500 record over the past 3 years, etc.

2) Ohman is the perfect player for a Bobby Cox bullpen. I think it is important that they keep him. We’ve all seen it every year. Bobby has 7 guys in the bullpen but there are 3 or 4 that he uses almost every single game (Ohman, Boyer, Acosta this year and Moylan last year) while the others are never used (Stockman, Devine). Ohman has thrived and succeeded in that type of atmosphere. He is perfect for a Bobby Cox bullpen. The question is - has his overuse set up Ohman for an injury next year (see Moylan, Acosta).

By Different Take

July 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

bravos2249

That’s inaccurate. McCann is owed money in 2011 and 2012. I think he is missing a couple of things. I believe Soriano’s contract too. I think we have about 35 mill to play with, at most, this offseason.

By Miami Brave

July 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

DOB love the blog man, but I don’t know how you do it sometimes, I’m personally glad you do, but dealing with

projected 2010/11 lineups, unfounded trade suggestions, along with all the negative crap…geez it’s alot to sort through

its tough to read through some of these asinine posts, but I thank you man for keeping the blog alive and giving some good insight.

By N8

July 30, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

shaun

“oh, geez! Here we go with JD Drew. Drew put up and MVP-type season. Wainwright was a young pitcher. Again, convince me that Schuerholz has the ability to see into the future and I’ll grant you that this was a bad trade.”