AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USLost weekend in season of discontent
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Back on the case, we’ll clear the decks here as we await announcements later today regarding DL assignments and expected replacements, etc.
Expect Clint Sammons to be brought up to fill in for concussed Brian McCann, and Charlie Morton to get tonight’s start, which means someone (Chipper?) will have to be DL’d to open a roster spot for Morton. Oh, and Tex to be traded to Arizona.
(Got your attention, didn’t I?)
Anyway, after the Saturday-Sunday bullpen meltdowns and huge blown leads (did the Braves really blow a six-run lead Saturday and a five-run lead Sunday?) made it more likely than ever that Mark Teixeira will be moved by Thursday’s non-waiver trade deadline, thought I’d take a look at his year with the Braves and what they might possibly get in return if they trade him.
But first, did you all happen to see Jon Heyman’s Inside Baseball story in Sports Illustrated last week? SI did a survey of 20 major league GMs, asst. GMs, scouting directors and scouts, and asked them to name the five players they’d build their franchises around.
Youth was obviously a factor, as most don’t want to build a team around players in the downside of their careers. That explains why, of the 35 players who got votes, only four were older than 30, including A-Rod, who was second in the overall voting behind Marlins shortstop Hanley Ramirez.
They did it on a 5-4-3-2-1 scoring system, and Hanley was the runaway winner with 40 points and 5 first-place votes among the 20 voters. A-Rod had 29 points, Chase Utley 27, 22-year-old Mariners pitcher Felix Hernandez had 23, and Joe Mauer had 21, the only others with more than 20 points in the voting.
OK, but here’s what surprised me a bit. While I stated here last week that I could name at least 10 NL players I’d rather build a team around than Teixeira, it surprises me that people who don’t see as much of him as those who watch him daily, would also feel the same way.
I mean, would think his undisputedly large statistics, his excellent defense, and age (28) might land him in, say, the top 20 in a poll like this one in SI, wouldn’t you?
Well, think again. Because of the 35 players who received votes in this baseball-wide survey, Brian McCann was on the list, but Teixeira was not. Not so much as one fifth-place vote did he receive.
You can interpret that as you see fit, but the varied likes of Carlos Beltran, Russell Martin, Lance Berkman, Evan Longoria, Jake Peavy, Adrian Gonzalez and B.J. Upton received votes, and Tex did not.
Anyway….
Getting back to his year with the Braves. If it ends this week, it will have been a statistically impressive run, at least in terms of raw numbers. No question about that.
Since he was dealt to Atlanta from Texas as the centerpiece in a blockbuster, seven-player deal just before last year’s trade deadline, Teixeira has played 156 games for the Braves and hit .294 with 34 doubles, 37 homers, 133 RBI, 92 walks, 115 strikeouts, a .394 OBP and .545 slugging percentage.
The Braves went 76-80 in those games.
(Just for the curious, former Braves prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia has hit .242 with 10 homers and 45 RBI in 93 games (331 at-bats) for Texas since the trade, with a .311 OBP, .387 slugging percentage, 106 strikeouts and 18 errors. Rangers got four other prospects in the deal, though, and most are progressing, so only time will tell.)
Tex might not make the top 35 of players those surveyed by SI would build around, but Tex did inspire a memorable hit song on You Tube (remember those two guys from Auburn? That’s making the most of your 15 minutes).
Remember the Tex hysteria in that first month or so when the former Georgia Tech standout wore the tomahawk? He inspired it with his huge production right after the deal, including three homers and seven RBIs in his first three games for Atlanta and nine homers and 25 RBI in his first 18 games.
Yes, nine homers and 25 RBIs in his first 18 games with the team. The Braves went 10-8 in those games.
There was so much promise. But it fizzled out. The Braves sputtered in the final weeks of the 2007 season, officially eliminated from the wild-card hunt in the last week.
And this season? Ugly. Multiple injuries to key pitchers; disappointments from the corner outfield positions, especially RF; and yes, a slow start by Teixeira, who always started slow with Texas, and did again with the Braves.
The Braves really needed him to help Chipper Jones carry the load in that first month and a half. It didn’t happen. Yunel Escobar and Brian McCann had torrid stretches in that period, but Tex didn’t.
The Braves got too far back and, each time they seemed poised to make a big move, they’d have a terrible series or two and push the frustration needle to the right.
Oh, it’s been a maddening season for Braves Nation, to be sure. Fairly or unfairly, Tex fell out of favor with many when he struggled early on and didn’t seen too concerned by it (he’d keep saying how he always started slow, that it was a marathon not a sprint, etc.).
People don’t want to hear that when they’re team is slipping in the standings and injuries are mounting. They want to hear how you feel terrible for not helping out, how you can’t look at yourself in the mirror because you’re not doing your part, that kind of thing.
Hey, it’s just human nature. And if you ask me, some people need a good PR agent to explain that to them, to explain that a little regret and beating one’s self up publicly goes a long way. But hey, I’m no PR agent.
Long story short, this was the year when Tex needed to buck his trend of slow starts. But it didn’t happen. Who knows if a huge first month from him could have made the difference for the Braves? But I can assure you, it sure would have made things a bit more interesting.
OK, so what do they get in a trade? I still don’t know, and I’m just behind honest when I say that. While I do believe the Braves can and will get a decent deal for him, assuming they trade him by Thursday, there’s a very good chance it won’t be nearly enough to satisfy fans who don’t seem to understand the difference between his situation now and a year ago.
The Braves gave up a bounty for Tex and lefty Ron Mahay because they were getting Teixeira for what they believed would be two playoff runs. Not one, but two. Turns out, they’ve gotten no playoff runs from him, and won’t unless they decide to keep him and then they make a huge turnaround in their season.
But if things had worked out as they hoped and planned, they’d have gone to the playoffs twice with Teixeira as their cleanup hitter and Gold Glove-caliber first baseman, and also would’ve had Mahay as their top situational lefty for one of those postseasons.
Few would be able to argue that the price had not been worth it (well, some would’ve argued that case anyway, barring a World Series win for the Braves. But you can’t win that argument with that segment of the fan base, so no reason to try.)
Anyway, things obviously didn’t work out, and now people want to see what the Braves get for Tex and then will judge just how bad they think last year’s deal was. That’s part of the game when you make such deals. It’s the nature of fando. But GMs know this, and know they can’t be afraid to make a deal for fear that it will anger fans a year later, like the J.D. Drew deal and others have before this one.
You roll the dice. Your minor league system exists both to produce players you can use in the majors and to produce players you can trade to fill holes in an effort to put you over the top.
Where were we? Oh, what the Braves might get.
The market isn’t what we might have expected for Teixeira, simply because so many contenders are set at first base and designated hitter.
Only contenders who are willing to part with a young player and or prospects in return for a two-month rental - because agent Scott Boras doesn’t usually do that long-term extension before a trade is finalized thing. He’ll want to take his guy to the open market this winter, to seek a deal worth more than $20 mill a year for seven or eight seasons for Teixeira.
Will he get that? I don’t know. But he’ll try. And Boras, he’s pretty good at this stuff, if you haven’t heard.
So what’s the market? If I’m the Braves, I keep pushing the Diamondbacks for Conor Jackson, who’s hitting .324 with a .407 OBP, with 12 homers and 55 RBI. That includes a sublime .396 average and 1.137 OPS in 96 at-bats vs. lefties.
Jackson’s a stellar player and the Braves could have him under control for three more years in arbitration, and he’s also played left field in the majors. He’d be huge “get” for the Braves if they could land him in a trade for Tex.
But I don’t think the D-Backs are going to give him up for Tex; I know if I were them I wouldn’t
So perhaps the Braves can work out a deal with Arizona involving Chad Tracy, another 1B who’d be under contract for under $5 mill next season. He ain’t Conor Jackson, but Tracy is a .289 career hitter with 131 doubles, 68 homers and 267 RBIs in 563 games, with a .348 career OBP.
He’s hitting .303 this season with six homers, includking .350 (14-for-40) with runners in scoring position.
However, Tracy is just a .226 career hitter against lefties, and only 22 of his 145 at-bats this season have been against lefties.
If the Braves do a deal for him, they’ve probably got to get something else solid thrown in, or else don’t you take the two draft picks instead?
Barring a deal with Arizona, I’d keep pushing the Angels for 1B Casey Kotchman, because he’d also give Atlanta a young (25), affordable 1B for at least next season, with a line-drive swing and pretty good power (.296 average with 11 homers last season, 11 homers already this season with a .288 average).
I know Boras has a great relationship with both the Angels and Dodgers, and probably could convince either team there’d be a good chance to re-sign Tex. But the Dodgers, unless they really believed they could re-sign him, wouldn’t possibly trade young 1B James Loney (career .312/.367 OBP/.508 slugging) for Teixeira, could they?
Anyway, stay tuned. It’s going to be a interesting week around here, what with the Teixeira situation and the bigger trade market that exists for veteran lefty Will Ohman.
(And wasn’t Ohman’s reading of the Braves lineup Saturday on Fox, with his impersonation of the late, great Harry Caray, spectacular? Gonna miss that dude if he’s traded. I won’t have anyone else to talk to about The Big Lebowski - Ohman knows just about all the dialogue and has a T-shirt with The Dude on it.)
McCann, Chipper voids: So how much will the Braves miss if they are without both Chipper Jones and Brian McCann for most or all of this week?
Well, they’d miss a hell of a lot, to say the least.
Jones and McCann rank second and sixth in the NL in on-base plus slugging percentage (OPS), Jones at 1.062 and McCann at .949. The others in the top six? Berkman, Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday and Pat Burrell.
Chipper still leads the league with a .369 average and .466 OBP. By the way, Jeff Francoeur’s .288 OBP is third-lowest among NL qualifiers.
McCann’s concussion — on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday — comes at a time when McCann has been carrying the offense, batting .390 (16-for-41) with five homers and 15 RBI in his past 13 games, with 13 walks, two strikeouts and a .545 OBP in that span.
Between them, Chipper and Mac have 32 of the Braves’ 77 homers against right-handers. They are the team’s two best in homers and slugging percentage against righties, and Tex (13) is the only other Brave with as many as 10 homers against right-handers.
Oh, and Chipper and Mac are also the only two Braves regulars hitting .300 or higher with runners in scoring position. Each is at .310 with RISP; next-best is Gregor Blanco at .297, among Braves with at least 30 at-bats with RISP.
This would be Chipper’s first DL stint in more than a year. Since returning from his last stint on June 13, 2007, he’s hit .361 with 44 doubles, 35 homers and 130 RBI in 181 games, with a .452 OBP and .596 slugging percentage.
The Braves are 93-88 in that stretch when Chipper plays, and 5-15 when he does not.
Declining relief: Blaine Boyer leads the majors with 56 appearances, and the wear and tear seems to be showing. He has a 5.82 ERA and .287 opponents’ average in 23 appearanes since June 8, with six walks and 16 strikeouts in 21-2/3 innings….
But no one has slipped lately more than lefty Royce Ring, who has been terrible in July. He’s got a stagginer 22.09 ERA and .571 opponents’ average in seven appearances since July 2, with 12 hits, nine earned runs and six walks in just 3-2/3 innings.
He’s given up at least one hit in every appearance, at least one walk in five of the seven appearances, and multiple hits or multiple walks in four of the seven.
The punchless outfield: Braves outfielders still have only 20 home runs; no other NL team has gotten fewer than 26 homers from outfielders, and half of the 16 teams have at least 44 outfielder homers…. Jeff Francoeur has hit .165 (20-for-121) with one homer and seven RBI in his past 32 games….
Close-and-yikes: You want a startling stat? Tex (four) and Jeff Francoeur (three) have seven of the Braves’ mere nine homers in close-and-late situations. McCann and Escobar have the other two. Seven NL teams have more than twice as many homers in close-and-late situations than the Braves, including the Marlins with a league-high 32 and Phillies with 22…. The Braves’ .242 average in close-and-late situations is better than only Washington and San Diego in the NL.
“HURRICANE PARTY” by James McMurtry
The hurricane party’s windin’ down and we’re all waitin’ for the end
And I don’t won’t another drink, I only want that last one again
He gave me such a fine glow, smokin’ slow, now I should probably be homeward bound
There’s just no one to talk to when the lines go down
I guess that in the morning I’ll go lookin’ for my gray-striped cat
My old house can take the weather so I’m not too concerned about that
It was built to take the wind back in nineteen-and-ten when this was one damned fine town
But now there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down
Candles flickered on the back bar and the building was shakin’ with the wind
I bought a whiskey for the gypsy and she turned my leather back into skin
Just a fleeting sense of that rare suspense I once thought made the world go round
But now there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down
Open up your back screen door
Let me see your face once more
My hands are cold and my feet so sore
And I can’t go on this way
And the thoughts come too fast and too many to keep count, best just to let ‘em on through
Now I’m breaking those glass insulators with my old 22
Off the telephone polls as a half dollar rolls across the knuckles of a rodeo clown
There’s just no one to talk to when the lines go down
My one great love, my God, I can feel her still
She ran off to California and now she’s living in those Hollywood hills
With some bullfrog prince, I’ve not seen her since
Though she calls when he’s out of town
And there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down
Open up your back screen door
Let me in your space once more
I was looking for an easy score
But it just don’t work that way
Some insurance man-biker is yellin’ out for one more beer
But a part-time pirate just can’t get much respect around here
We got our problems too, man we’ll get to you
In just a minute, sit your drunk a@# down
Yeah, there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down
Now there’s water up past the wheel wells of my
Ford and I don’t guess that it’ll run
But I left a pack of Winston’s on the dash, could you fetch ‘em for me son?
The morning’s first cigarette, that’s as good as it gets all day I should know by now
But there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down
.JPG)
-1.JPG)
Services »
Comments
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
liberty media=atlanta spirit
By Michael Procton
July 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
First?
Anyways, DOB…how do the Bravos feel about potentially having four first-rounders to pay for if they don’t get offers they want? With our original pick in addition to the #1 for Tex plus supplementals for Tex and Ohman, that’s a lot of bonus money to be paying.
By IgCognito
July 28, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
From Keith Law via MLBTradeRumors:
“The Braves have at least four suitors in the mix for Mark Teixeira now, teams with whom they’ve spoken in the last 48 hours.”
By Pete Rose
July 28, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Bobby, haven’t you got any guts? Victorino deliberately came at McCann with a head ram into Mac’s temple. He was out by a mile, but saw a clear shot to take Big Mac out. Why didn’t we throw at the Phillies next inning? Someone should have thrown a beaner at Vic’s fat head. The pitcher would have been ejected - so what? There may have been a bench-clearing brawl - good! These pathetic Braves need some motivation. Instead, they have to suffer another 5+ run lead blown in 24 hours against a hated division rival, as their disgusting fans taunt and mock chop. Then you stick your tails between your legs and limp out of town, 7 1/2 games out, when you could have SWEPT. But you lost the series, Bobby, because of your insane loyalty to those two gutless pitchers, Boyer and Reyes. Then you make vomit-inducing statements like “Blaine only made one mistake today,” or “You have to tip your cap to their hitters.” BULL! Where’s the fight? You’ve just been dog-slapped and you just take it. “We’ll go get ‘em tomorrow.” No, you won’t. It’s the same thing, game in and game out. I am so sick of this “gentlemen” act. The Phillies smell blood. Pick your heads up! At least go down fighting. You guys are making me sick. When Escobar first came up., he was so fired up. How refreshing that was. Now he’s caught the Brave’s lethargy, and the fire is gone. He looks just like Chipper or Francoeur as he calmly walks back to the dugout after hitting into a rally-killing double play. Come on! Wake up! Get mad! Go out and get ‘em tomorrow - for real! Kick some butt! Come on!
By skip
July 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Okay DOB best guess-who’s getting sent down/DFA’d today?
By patrocket
July 28, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, any chance the braves shut Jurjens down or drastically reduced his pitch limit? He’s on pace to far exceed his previous inning total. Also, any chance we see Hanson for a late season start or two?
By bobby
July 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Why all the hysteria about trading Tex? All they would be doing is opening up another hole in the lineup. No way are they going to get a better player than he is and besides he problably saves more runs with his glove than anybody they could get would knock in. This team needs much more than they can get in any trade. As far as that goes, no one player in baseball could bring enough in return to make them contenders.
They should have started rebuilding three years ago starting at the top. They didn’t become also runs overnight..
By AZBravoFan
July 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Wow, what a demoralizing weekend! Seems like the Braves keep coming up with new and excruciating ways to lose to the Phils. From this weekend, to KJ’s pop-up, heck, I can even remember a rookie Chase Utley taking dominant closer John Smoltz deep a few years ago to erase what seemed like a sure win. Those dramatic wins in the opening series last year sure seem like a distant memory now, don’t they?
I mentioned this before when someone brought up Tracy. I’m still not convinced he’s totally healthy. If they can’t get Jackson, then they should focus on another team.
By Stephen
July 28, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
It looks like the Rangers might want to trade Saltalamacchia. Any chance the Braves get him back to be 1B next year?
By MAV
July 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
I still do not understand why people on this blog keep on saying we need to show “heart” and intentionally injure or throw at another player on the opposite team just because Mccann got hurt. It’s stupidity to do such a thing, NOT HEART! Just think if you had that mentality at your day job, you would be fired. Think about it.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Not a good start to the week when you open mailbox and the new Rolling Stone has a cover of … The Jonas Brothers.
The horror.
By THE BEAR
July 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
You hit it David. When Tex was “getting off to another of his slow starts” the Braves were losing those one run games. I have watched him carefully and I don’t see the fire in the belly that we usually allociate with winners.
The Braves can lose without him so get what they can and move on.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
pathanson, I don’t think Hanson is going to get called up this season, but next season is certainly a possibility, perhaps even from Day 1. He’ll get a look in spring training, of that I’m fairly certain.
By TheManMike
July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
The Big Lebowski! - favorite movie of all time; “But thats just like, your opinion, man..”
By THE BEAR
July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
You hit it David. When Tex was “getting off to another of his slow starts” the Braves were losing those one run games. I have watched him carefully and I don’t see the fire in the belly that we usually associate with winners.
The Braves can lose without him so get what they can and move on.
By Pete Rose
July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Blah, blah, blah. “McCann’s concussion - on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday…” Blah, blah blah. BULL! Ah, those Phillies and their fans. Such class. Such gentlemen. BULL! To hell with the Phillies. “Sissy Poets,” by Dave O’Brien: I write all day, but don’t say crap… I watch the Braves, as they get slapped… I’m just like them, I got no rocks… I’m just a b#@ch, for Bobby Cox… I got a special knack for rhymin’… Just like the Braves, out on the diamond… They softly tread, like sissy poets… ‘Cept Chipper Jones, for All-Star voets… I’m on the in, and you’re just jealous… I get to see the jock-strapped fellas… As all their sweat, it drips like honey… They mail it in, and count their money… Then I go out, and write about it… The Braves are done, no doubt about it.”*
By MAV
July 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, and more money spent by Liberty Media does not gurantee more wins. Just look at the teams with lower payrolls. Tampa, Milwaukee, Florida, Chicago White Sox, Arizona, Minnesota. All there fans don’t call there owners gutless. It’s about spending money right. No player on your team should account fo 20% or more of the payroll. So as far as resigning Texiera for 20 il, i would say hell no.
By NASCAR Dave
July 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Gutless LOSERS!!!
NUFF SAID.
By THE BEAR
July 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
You hit it David. When Tex was “getting off to another of his slow starts” the Braves were losing those one run games. I have watched him carefully and I don’t see the fire in the belly that we usually associate with winners.
The Braves can lose without him so they should get what they can for Tex and move on.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Charlie’s starting tonight. That part is official. But no corresponding move yet.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Stephen, if the Braves thought Saltalamacchia had value as a firstbaseman, I don’t think they would have included him in the Teixeira trade to begin with.
By Braves20
July 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Pete Rose - have to disagree. If anything Utley’s crash into McCann a few innings earlier looked more intentional.
Will be interesting to see if one of our guys (pitchers) go after either one in the next series which I believe is not to be played until mid-September at the Ted.
Perhaps all will be forgotten by then or perhaps as my Dad used to say we “bring back Sal Maglie or Early Wynn.”
By RC
July 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
DOB, have you heard anything about other, non-1b players the Braves might ask for in a Tex trade? Or even if there are any players they might have an interest in?
By Supes
July 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
I liked your “hard and clean play” comment, but you forgot the one play that happened earlier in the game. Cheap forearm to BMac’s face that could have knocked him out.
I know a “hard clean play” the Braves could have done…as in spikes up sliding into second when Utley was covering or beaning him in the rids with a fastball once.
Think how scary yesterday was for the Braves. It wasn’t that long ago that the self described “gritty, hardnosed player” by the name of Darrin Erstad pretty much ended the career of Johnny Estrada (he’s not been the same ever since) with a similar slide. I remember the Braves gutless attempt at “retaliation that day” was right down laughable. They didn’t protect their all star catcher then, and didn’t do it last night.
Lack of passion, fire and your team is your family - 2008 Braves. Supposed to stick up for each other. Even if Bobby didn’t want to retaliate last night…one of the relievers should have had BMac’s back.
Now onto some positives: Tonight could be the end of the Corky Miller “era”.
I hope we see a battery of Morton/Sammons. It would make sense. He’s caught him a bunch in the minors, and he can’t be any worst offensively than that waste of oxygen Corky Miller is.
By DAP01
July 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Punt on 2008.
Trade for prospects.
Send Jeff F. down until he becomes a prospect again.
By Plate Appearance
July 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
IT’S TOO BAD
It’s too bad Tex wants so much money and is a Boras client.
It would have been nice to see him as a part of the Braves lineup over the next several years.
However, I don’t believe the money can be justified. But at the same time, I’ll hate to see him go.
Apart from what DOB mentioned about how Tex handled his early season lack of production, I’ve liked his overall attitude in what I’ve read about him.
As to the trade possibilities, I’d like to see the Braves really shore up their pitching and try Thorman again at first base, as related to his increased minor league production.
Any thoughts about Thorman possibly being in the Braves brain trust mix DOB?
By Heath
July 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
You know, I don’t think that we necessarilly have to trade for a first baseman. If Hampton, Glavine AND Smolts are not back next year…you start off with their salaries AND Tex’s current salary when going into the offseason. Why not go for another Jair-type of guy when trading tex…maybe package kotsay and ohman for a young corner outfielder and make a run at tex in the offseason. I say this because if we could get some young, major-league ready talent for these three guys in that manner…we should have the necessary pitching, a decent outfield (I like Blanco in center and still gotta give Francoeur another shot next year..realistically anyway), and plenty of money to get tex back at first base…. thoughts Dave?
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
All the trade talk seems focused on the West Coast, and I’d like to think that the White Sox might consider Tex a possible offensive upgrade over Konerko at first. Perhaps the problem is that they haven’t got much to offer the Braves in return.
By Greg
July 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Dave,
Unless im missing something here, if the braves were to hold onto Tex and let him walk at the end of the year, assuming they offered him arbitration, they would receive a first round pick and a sandwich pick as compensation.
Tex for a few worthless months plus the draft picks are MUCH MUCH more valuable than a mediocre injury-prone Chad Tracy.
Am i wrong in that?
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Looks like we have another Eminem fan in Pete Rose, DOB.
If Chipper’s DL’d, then once he is activated he’ll really need to try and stay healthy the rest of the year lest he not have enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title. Think he’ll need a little over 500 plate appearances to qualify.
By Jake
July 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I understand Tex has not been what we hoped this year offensively. I think some of that has to do with the fact that he was in a new league finally caught up with him. I would actually like to try and keep Tex. I think he may not be as much as we think because he is a Boras client. I mean A-Rod who was suppose to break the bank last year and be even to expensive for the Yankees ended up back with them and in no way did he get the contract that was predicted. The same could be said for Andruw. The Dodgers took a risk in him paying him that much even if it was for a short contract and it hasn’t payed off. I think there is a little backlash against Boras in the league.
I think we should keep him because we have Tim Hudson and Jair Jurrjems who are sinker ball pitchers and Tex to me is flat out one of the best first basemen defensively and has saved a lot of hits for our pitchers. I mean just last year people treated Tex like a god send and now there ready to just dump him. I don’t think we should trade him just to trade him. If we trade him we better get more than what we just gave up last year to get him. If we don’t we will just look stupid like the pirates do because they gave up more and got less back. Don’t make a trade just to make a trade. Only make it if it truly betters the team.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Heath, I agree about not being forced to get a 1B in return. I mean, if they trade Tex they aren’t realistically thinking of making the playoffs this season, certainly. So if worst-case scenario, you have Thorman or the Cuban, Canizares, play 1B the rest of this season, or Norton play it some.
But that’s obviously not a great option. You’d prefer to get a 1B that’s under contractual control the next couple seasons or more, if at all possible. Because the Braves don’t have a good one ready to plug in next year, and Tex on free-agent market is probably just too expensive.
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
SUPES Now onto some positives: Tonight could be the end of the Corky Miller “era”.
well not yet until simmons plays well and mccann comes back, THEN goodbye. we cant just have unexperienced Catcher with mccann hurt. But no worries his time is ending. Hes worst than T.Pratt!!!!!!!
By lewie
July 28, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
it was a clean play…the philly fans do suck donkeyballs but that wasnt a cheap shot
it was an agressive play with the game in the balance.
By Supes
July 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
**Heath
You know, I don’t think that we necessarilly have to trade for a first baseman **
You’d have to call up Scott Thorman then for the rest of the season and use him and Greg Norton. Not sure that is the way to go even in attempt to get ready for next year.
We know Thorman will be dealt or released, he isn’t in the Braves plans to be a first baseman in the starting lineup.
How about the guy at AA. I can’t recall the name, but he’s a decent prospect, right? Could he be considered next year or will he just move up to AAA when Thorman goes.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Pete Rose, as in prose. I love it.
By Chris
July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Keith Law said that 4 teams have had conversations with the braves about Tex in the past 48 hours.
By Chief Bunt-um-ova
July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Reading the comments on the blog is like watching auditions to play the two old men on the muppet show. Only not as funny.
By Captain Obvious
July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
http://trades.mlblogs.com/
Don’t know if this has been posted. I apologize if it has. Bowman says a deal for Bay was in place but shot down. They want B Jones, Little Bridge, and possibly two more “Class A” level prospects. What are we waiting on?
By Eric Roberts
July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
DOB -
Here’s an interesting stat for you that displays the Braves’s offensive futility and explains why they’re under .500.
Going into last Friday’s game, the Braves had played 45 games since June 1. In those 45 games, McCann, Teixeira, and Chipper combined for 27 homeruns. In those same 45 games, the rest of the Braves (the other 10 or so position players) had only combined for 16 homers. That’s unbelieveable. Going behind the stats, Francoeur hit 3 in that stretch, Escobar hit 2, Norton = 2 and Kelly only 1. Such an unbalanced lineup full of punch-and-Judy hitters. Cox has fallen in love with these Pete Orr-types and it’s started to negatively effect the team. We need offensive and to quit relying on Boyer and Ring. By the way, Reyes is also terrible. Morton should’ve been the one that pitched yesterday.
If you have time, please examine the lack of production outside of the three good Braves players and compare it to some of our better teams in the 14-year run. thanks
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Greg i kinda agree with you but im sure better offeres will come in the next few days!
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Guys, look at Sammons’ stats @ AAA. Be logical. He’s not going to develop and get any better by playing against Major League pitching every five or six days. It makes no sense to keep him up here for other than a few days until McCann gets better. On a side note, I would have rather taken my chances with Javy then Corky, whom I’ve also liked as a ballplayer, he’s just not having a good year. DOB: Any word on if Javy’s staying in shape? Because then he could pull a Brett Favre, minus wanting out. haha wishful thinking…gotta love it
By IgCognito
July 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
From Bowman at Bay Still On Radar
The Braves scored 27 runs during this past weekend’s series in Philadelphia and won just once. Things certainly might have been different had they had Chipper Jones and Jason Bay in their lineup.
Jones was sidelined by a strained left hamstring and Bay was stuck in Pittsburgh because Pirates ownership was reluctant to move him.
Before the start of Friday’s game, many of the Braves players were asking about Bay. Some were under the impression that they were going to walk into the clubhouse that day and find him to be their newest teammate.
But a proposed deal, which would have brought Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.
Still as the week progresses, the Braves will continue to pursue Bay, who is set to earn $7.5 million during the final year of his contract next year.
The Pirates would have a definite interest in shortstop Brent Lillibridge, who they developed before trading him to the Braves in exchange for Adam LaRoche last year.
In addition, they’d likely ask for Brandon Jones, who would be considered a Major League-ready outfielder. He hit .278 (15-for-54) with seven extra-base hits, including a homer, in 16 games with Atlanta earlier this year.
To complete the deal the Braves would likely also have to include one of their talented young pitchers from the Class A level and another marginal position player.
— Mark Bowman
By RC
July 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
I’m all for the “trade Tex, try and resign him in the offseason” strategy. Here’s another guy I’d LOVE to see us go after this offseason - Chone Figgins. He’d be an excellent leadoff guy, give the Braves a speed element (something Wren has talked about wanting to add), and could play in the outfield while serving as an insurance policy on Chipper at 3b. I’d actually try to sign him for somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 years, so that when Chipper does decide he’s finished you have a guy ready to fill his position, instead of having to search for someone when that time comes.
By Tyler
July 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Pirates Owners Killed Bay-Braves Trade (http://trades.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/baystillontheradar.html)
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Welcome back, Chief. Thanks for the new blog.
Am anxiously awaiting the corresponding move.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Pirates Owners Killed Bay-Braves Trade According to Mark Bowman of MLB.com:
A proposed deal, which would have brought Jason Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.
Bowman believes Pirates targets might include Brent Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, a talented A ball pitcher, and a marginal position player prospect. He says the Braves will continue to pursue Bay.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
By Theo
July 28, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
No more false facades, start cleaning the decks. And we’ve a lot of deck hands who need to go.
Complacency and contentment have set in and it runs from Boobey Cox down through the players.
Time for a a* kicker to take the helm.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 28, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
I really hope that if we get Tracy for Tex that he isn’t the centerpiece of that deal. Tracy and some high level prospects maybe, but Tracy and some mid-level or lower prospects…No freakin way! That just isn’t worth it when you can get two high draft picks by keeping Tex through the end of the year. Tracy isn’t going to help the Braves win next year he just isn’t a very good option because of his injury potential and mediorce production.
The Braves can and should do better if they are going to trade Tex.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Greg, Yeah, I don’t think the Braves would do Tex-for-Tracy straight up. I think the Braves would want at least one, maybe two other pieces.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Yes, the Utley thing was MUCH dirtier. Just plain dirty. They better plunk him good the next time they face him!
[sigh]…But they won’t.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Greg, yes, which is why I said they’d have to throw something else solid into the deal. Not just a fringe prospect, but a good one or a player on the current roster. In my opinion, that’s only way that makes sense.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
**Everybody, we could be close to getting Jason Bay! Pirates ownership turned down a four prospect deal including Lil’Bridge, Brandon Jones, and two others. But then Bowman says Wren is still working on getting Bay. I think Wren and Cox are going for it this year. 7.5 after all is not impossible to pull off. Think about it:
1.Kotsay-CF 2.Esco-SS 3.Chipper-3B 4.Tex-1B 5.B-Mac-C 6.Bay-LF 7.Frenchy-RF 8.KJ-2B
Not a bad line-up, not to mention having ether Blanco or Diaz on the bench. **
By macdwolfpack
July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
I know that plowing into the catcher is legal and “part of the game” but at some point the Players Union or someone with common sense needs to step in and implement a change in that rule. No one should be allowed to intentionally plow into a catcher. You should be allowed to slide into a catcher guarding home plate, but no one should be allowed to come in standing up and collide with the catcher. It serves no useful purpose for the game and threatens the careers of some pretty darned good catchers. There isn’t much I would change in the game, but only a fool would not see that is a rule that has outlived its usefullnes
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Did you guys hear this one: Elias Sports Bureau said that Saturday was the first time in nearly 100 years the Braves lost a game in which they had a nine-run inning. The last time it happened was June 20, 1912.
That kind of season. That and the streak of consecutive one-run road losses dating to last August, just unbelievable stuff.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Hasn’t really been said with any emphasis, but I think that the rain delay yesterday was a blessing for the Phillies. I’dve loved our chances with Campillo on the hill with a lead against those guys. Ifs and buts, perhaps, but still worth stating for the record.
Even more important I think was Chipper’s absence in this series. I knew heading into the 3 game set that it would most likely be an offensive slugfest at the Phillies park, and it was. Gotta think that if Chipper’s in the lineup that he at least helps us score one or two on Saturday and one or two on Sunday. Would’ve made a big difference.
By 57Braves
July 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Brave fan forever and will always be one, but this year has been one of the most frustrating. Unfortunately Tex will be gone (either by Thursday or by ‘09) and in retrospect that trade was not what we all had hoped for. Slim chance of getting anyone who can compare to what we gave up for him. The Braves are in a spot now where they can actually get better just by getting rid of some players. “Addition by Subtraction.” No one can argue that this team would be better without Corky Miller, Royce Ring, Julian Tavarez, Ruben Gotay, Greg Norton. I’d rather give those spots to someone who has a chance of someday being a player than wasting roster space.
Will be an interesting next few days, but I am not optimistic about the outcome. Take care BMac, you are the MAN.
By Renegator
July 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
From mlbtraderumors.com:
According to Mark Bowman of MLB.com:
A proposed deal, which would have brought Jason Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.
Bowman believes Pirates targets might include Brent Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, a talented A ball pitcher, and a marginal position player prospect. He says the Braves will continue to pursue Bay.
By NASCAR Dave
July 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
When they trade TEIXERA they need to send FRANCOEUR with him…
Friggin LOSERS…
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Bay would obviously be a perfect fit for Braves, but as we’ve said before, Pirates are asking king’s ransom for him, from Braves or any other team. Personally, I can’t see it happening.
By ATLien
July 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Great stuff DOB. Everyone who is complaining about the McCann / Vic play must not know baseball, because the play was clean. Vic even stayed there to make sure Brian was “o.k.”.
And those of you who want to keep Tex, reality check - we won’t be able to re-sign Tex at the end of the season so the only reason to keep him would be if we had a legitimate shot at the playoffs, which we do not. Trade him now and get some solid young guys in return.
I really like Kotchman - I hope the Braves push for him fingers crossed.
By nate
July 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Is a package possible of Ohman and Tex for Conor Jackson? Could the D-Backs use Ohman?
By Lee in S GA
July 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
It looks like the Rangers might want to trade Saltalamacchia. Any chance the Braves get him back to be 1B next year?
How about just to be McCann’s backup. Salty has not convince anyone he is a proven starter this season. He is certainly good enough to be Miller’s replacement.
By NASCAR Dave
July 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
That kind of season. That and the streak of consecutive one-run road losses dating to last August, just unbelievable stuff.
Excuses, excuses, excuses…
Don’t you get it??? This team is just NOT THAT GOOD!!!
Duh!!!
Time for the REBUILD…
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
WE MUST BE CLOSE! To getting Bay…I mean, Bowman says that the Bravos walked into the clubhouse “expecting” to see Bay there this weekend. The players would not be expecting as much if the wheels weren’t rapidly turning. Can you imagine the spark Bay could start in the clubhouse and in the lineup? Morale would be so high, because then the players would know that no one is giving up.
By Sandro
July 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Dimeló Mr. O’Brien, if you are ever in the Biénnale, please find me! I would love to have you and prominent video artist Knox Harrington to my home to listen to Autobahn LP’s and discuss the Braves.
By don
July 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Using much of O’Brien’s logic, I suppose the Tigers got the best of the Alexander-Smoltz trade since Alexander led the Tigers to a championship and Smoltz didn’t play in the major leagues at all that year.
The tragedy of the trade with the Rangers will be played out over the next ten or fifteen years.
And, unlike Alexander, Teixeira produced nothing.
Dumb trade then. Devastatingly dumb now.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Can’t see D-Backs giving up Conor Jackson.
Angels could sure use both Tex and Ohman. That’s why I don’t think Kotchman’s a dead proposal. If Braves could get Kotchman and another lesser piece or two from Angels, that might be a good fit.
By j-school dropout
July 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Please tell me that we aren’t going to really give up Brandon Jones for Jason Bay. That would be idiotic. We don’t have a prayer this season. Our best bet would be to trade Tex to whomever and move Chipper to first. Yes, I know he doesn’t want that. Sorry. It’s for the good of the ball club. Besides, it’s going to happen next year anyway and it won’t matter if we win another game this year. All we’re doing now is playing out the string and giving some guys some at-bats and some innings to get them ready for next year.
Regarding Jonas Brothers on cover of Rolling Stone. That rag lost any musical relevance when it put Britney and NSync on its cover all those years. The only decent music magazine now on the market is Paste, but I find it very dry. I miss the days of CREEM. That was a great rock ‘n’ roll magazine.
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Great job DOB! Thanks to Carroll for doing a great job this weekend also!
Hex has a LOSER’s mentality. I’m sure other teams have picked up on his willingness to graciously accept being ABSENT until June.. He’s a subliminal cancer, that’s why summa Y’all can’t see it. I wear my Gorilla At Large 3-D glasses during games, so I don’t have that problem. I tried telling Y’all early-on that games lost in April were gonna show up in September. But, to quote the April-May Slacker,” “it’s a marathon…” I’ve never seen a marathon runner sleep through the opening third of a race. Wonder if he’d still have a chance to win? Hell, lets get it from an experienced marathoner! Howboutit Hex!?
By Chop Chop
July 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
I’m not down with draft picks for Tex.
Draft picks are like a box of chocolates. You never know which ones are going to suck.
I’d rather see the Braves get a player that can hold down first base (or play third in case of Chipper injuries) like Chad Tracy and prospects. At least they’ll have a big league player to slot in. I can’t see the D-Backs giving up Conor Jackson. This is one of those situations where I think Frank Wren needs to take what he can get. If he gets a solid player like Tracy in return for Tex, he will have a player of the same age as Tex that can be a useful starter for at least a couple of seasons.
Of course, something that might even make more sense would be to include Will Ohman into the deal. (I was actually typing this as you did so, nate. Looks like we’re thinking along the same lines.) The D-Backs don’t have a lefty reliever of his caliber. I’d accept Max Scherzer and Chad Tracy (and a solid prospect) for Tex and Ohman. The D-Backs may not want to do it, but the fact that they’re not relying on Scherzer and Tracy this season might make it easier for them to make such a calculated move. Not willing to give up Conor Jackson, the D-Backs might decide that trading Scherzer is a necessary evil for getting a deal done.
Besides, they already know that Tex and Ohman can step in and truly upgrade their lineup (Jackson moves to left to allow Tex to play first) and bullpen. There’s just no doubt about that.
By Heath
July 28, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
nate:
If we package both of our best trading chips for basically 1 guy…we should also consider 57Braves idea….addition by subtractin. Basically tell people…we’ll give you tex, ohman and (fill in the blanks here with guys we don’t need) for just one guy (preferrable conor jackson. Hell…even offer to pay their salaries for the rest of the year. Ohman and Tex are only under contract until the rest of the year anyway…and the point of trading tex, etc is to get exactly what you need (not want—but need) for next year anyway. Think about FW…this year is lost anyway…
By bgvt
July 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Not to be picky — but the Braves did not blow a 9-run lead on Saturday. It was a 9-3 lead. I noticed the Elias quote in Bowman’s article, too. A brain cramp on the part of some stathead at Elias.
By Josh C
July 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I know we are (rightfully so) in sell mode. That said, do you think a package of Reyes, Hanson, Schafer, and KJ have a chance of landing Halladay? This would be more for next year obviously, but I think I’d give up the future with Hanson for two years of Halladay. Thoughts?
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Jake, that’s because A-Rod told Boras to visit Hell before resigning with the Skankees!
By Stephen
July 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Shaun, you are probably right about them not thinking he was their 1B. I just had wishful thinking that they gave up on him too early thinking they could get Tex for 2 playoff runs. I just don’t like the idea of Thorman being our 1B, and I don’t know what else is out there.
By Catfish
July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Proposed Jason Bay Deal: Lillibridge has the potential to be a better offensive SS than Escobar, so this may be a blessing in disguise. Look at Lillibridge’s SB and HR totals in the minors…..Escobar is great defensively, but offensively, he is still a question regarding his potential. Let’s keep Lillibridge.
By Cecil34
July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
What DOB wrote about Tex confirms what baseball fans know - it takes a team of players to win games. That is why you have to trot 9 out there day in and day out.
No one man can win them all by himself.
The team has to get production out of every position on the major league level. Some will produce more than others but they all must meet certain minimums.
This team has certain players that are well under the minimums.
Therefore it negates what value Tex brings to the team. There are positives and there are negatives….
Tex was brought here under the best of intentions, but other weaknesses surfaced that cancelled out Tex’s positives.
And Tex has proven to be the type of player that is not capable of playing hard when others can’t.
So a slow start is team suicide.
Like I wrote in April, games given away in the first month of the season would sure come in handy in September.
I sincerely hope management in the future learns something on the Tex transaction and how it has turned out.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
For everyone clammoring to get Jason Bay - why??? The Braves are 7.5 games back and while I hate like hell to give up the season it’s not looking realistic that the Braves are going to be able to make a comeback. Especially with Chipper likely headed to the DL and don’t discount the Concussion McCann received yesterday - sometimes concussions have lasting effects on players and he may not bounce back very quickly.
So without our two best hitters for what could be an extended period of time how are we suposed to stay in this thing and not just stay in it make up 7.5 games and overtake 3 teams ahead of us? Adding Bay isn’t going to be enough - hell we scored plenty of runs over the weekend and we lost 2 out of 3 anyways. This season is over - it’s time to build for next year.
By Dadgum
July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
A good team has chemistry and this one ain’t a good team. Having said that, Francouer has had a cancer affect on this team in the chemistry lab. Forget his sub Mendoza line average and his 9-2 outs, the dude simply isn’t the caliber RF the Braves need and I am sick of his whining. I see him as a throw-in during a big trade week involving Tex. If not then I would send him to AAA Richmond ubtil Sept. call ups to make room for Morton.
The Braves are in need of starting pitching so badly that FR must be going nuts finding the pitching in return for TEX. Not many top teams willing to part with proven starters. Nevertheless I would love to have a Micah Owings and a RH bat from the D’Backs for Tex.
With the Braves having a 1 in 10 shot even with a trade to make the playoffs I would bring Thorman up to play 1st when Tex is traded. Assuming they don’t land a 1st baseman via another trade. Another trade scenario I would pursue is Kelly Johnson unless the Braves move him back to outfield. Which they won’t or they would have done so. Prado most likely has solidified 2nd base and Escobar at SS. Infante is too valuable as a Chipper backup/utility guy. Leaves Johnson as odd man out but still a valuable trade piece.
Rock on….ya’ll think about it.
By wanax
July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Why go out and get Bay and give up a bunch of prospects so we can finish third in the east instead of fourth.
If wren keeps Tex and Ohman and sells the farm to bring in Bay and we somehow win the East or the wildcard, what do we have to look forward to in the postseason? The cubs, phils, or mets who we can’t pitch to or the Dbacks or dodgers who we can’t hit.
Wren needs to rebuild and give up the pipedream of making a comeback run.
By ppaddy123
July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
DOB The Braves 1st baseman of the future is our all-star catcher. Plays like the collision at home yesterday are exactly the reason the team should move their best young hitter. It will allow the Braves to keep his bat in the line up everyday. It will keep him healthy and provide a longer career for him. This just seems like a “no brainer” to me. Tex will not bring the stellar 1st baseman as you have suggested. Why not fill another weakness with this trade?
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
What if Wren pulls both triggers? i mean, it’s not too far-fetched to say that if we get Bay, then Wren could turn around and trade Tex to Arizona or LA. I wouldn’t mind having Bay in left and Connor Jackson @ 1B. We’d have both next year, Jackson for a few, and then with the free money avalible from Hampton, Smoltz, and Glavine being gone after 2009, sign Bay to an extension. If Schafer does better, and Frenchy wakes up anytime, an OF of Bay, Schafer, Frenchy, and Kotsay on the bench wouldn’t be too bad.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Tomahawk Kris, so Bay can’t be a piece for next year?
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Shaun, you are probably right about them not thinking he was their 1B. I just had wishful thinking that they gave up on him too early thinking they could get Tex for 2 playoff runs. I just don’t like the idea of Thorman being our 1B, and I don’t know what else is out there.
LOL……..Could you picture that???
Francoeur, Thorman and KJ in the same lineup???
That could be something.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Josh C, the Blue Jays have Halladay locked up through 2010. I doubt the Jays would take the risk with those players.
By NCBravesFan
July 28, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
DOB Do you think the Braves are of a mindset that they are trading/tweaking in order to contend next year, or is the coming trade deadline the first wave of more sweeping changes that could lie ahead?
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Please Mr. Wren… get Jason Bay in an Atlanta Braves uniform. He’s a perfect fit for this team!
By Goodoleboy58
July 28, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Couple of things… I wouldn’t mind giving up Brandon Jones for Jason Bay because even if we didn’t have a playoff push next year Jason Bay could net us a better prospect then BJ at the trading deadline…
Secondly, I’m really pushing for the Loney trade… I think he is the best option out there so we shall see.. It’ll be an interesting next couple of days thats for sure.
Also in regards to the “value” of Tex we never know.. I know the team that gets him will only have him for 1 playoff push but maybe they’ll go the Brewers route and sell the farm for a chance this year..
A scenario we haven’t discussed is Tampa Bay. They could use a solid 1B and still let Carlos Pena DH. I mean the guys only hitting .243 this year (a smooth .200 against lefties)… They are going to need some veteran help to fight off the Yanks and Red Sox… They probably wouldn’t resign him at the end of the year ala the Brewers and CC but they’d be more then happy to take the 2 draft picks and plan for the future..
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
As bad as our season has been……..I wouldnt expect nothing but a bad trade………just to keep it going.
I just hope they dont focus on pitching…….we all know there is no such thing as enough pitching………but as bad as our offense and leadership has been………pitching is the last thing we need……… plus we get Moylan back for next season……….Id say if soriano finishes the season strong and Gonzo keeps it going………our bullpen is fine……..Keep Carlyle, keep Ohman.
Send JoJo Packing with James or at least one of the 2.
Please dont resign Glavine………keep smoltz but dont him for starting……..long relieve should be great for him.
What about hampton? If he finishes strong……….try working a bargain with him………Not sure about it, but if he is going to give a discount to anybody……..its going to be us………I say ……….try him again, but not Glavine.
Keep Infante……….the guy is just great utility player……outstanding.
Send Norton packing. Keep Prado.
Send KJ to LF and put Lilly in 2B.
By gotigers72
July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
As someone else posted, I would NOT take Chad Tracy in a trade for Teixeira. He doesn’t hit lefties, and he is a below average fielder. As far as Arizona, it would be Conor Jackson or no trade.
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Yes, (and trust me, I’m not on a beligerent “bring back Salty” bandwagon)
I don’t think the Braves decision to trade Salty was purely a “he can’t provide us value at first base” decision; but rather it was a “look at what Mark Teixeira can (hopefully) do for us now” decision.
And yes, Salty was a natural catcher; but, he was blocked at that position, which is why he had been shifted to first base by the Braves.
He isn’t a first baseman, but that doesn’t mean that he can’t become one.
I only brought this up because he A) he appears to be available, B) if we lose Tex, 1B appears to be vacant next year, C) McCann could also (theoretically) be moved, not likely, but it’s not against the rules. After seeing him get clobbered at home yesterday it really elevates the point of whether or not you want your best player (2nd really, but Chipper is getting old) risking injury behind the plate.
By Daren
July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Tex is a slow starter because he wants to be in his prime of the season in the second half… and the postseason. This isn’t a new trend. His weight training is centered around being at his best late in the season and the Braves knew that when they traded for him and they know it now. What is it going to take for Liberty to realize Tex is worth signing to a long term deal to solidify the corner infield positions for the next five years? Three seasons at nearly .500 baseball in one of baseball’s toughest divisions doesn’t mean it’s time to panic and break up the team. Atlanta isn’t a small market team and it needs to start spending like it. With Mike Hampton’s ridiculous contract (it wasn’t THAT ridiculous when he signed it) ending this year it’s time to start keeping players in their prime like the Braves of the 90s.
Come on Frank, bypass Boras and negotiate directly with Tex. It saved the Yankees a bundle with A-Rod last year.
By Chop Chop
July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123,
Here’s an idea:
The Braves could sign Jason Varitek this offseason. ‘Tek certainly looks like he’s entering the twilight of his career. He and McCann could split the catching duties next year, allowing McCann, after being allowed to start some at first base in the second half this year, to start at first base more often.
(I have no idea how that would fit with my proposed acquisition of Chad Tracy, but it’s an idea, at least. Lord knows we don’t have enough ideas offered here. I’m just trying to help.)
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Wanax, a trade for Bay would be more about the future than about this season, about having a power-hitting outfielder next year. They need one who’s ready, who doesn’t have a lot of question marks.
By Captain Obvious
July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Why would anyone think Scott Thorman would be a good fill in at 1B? That guy is absolutely horrible. I’d rather have Norton at first than Thorman. Scott Thorman should’ve been released years ago! While we’re at it let’s bring back Kolb,Reitsma,and Craig Wilson
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Tomahawk Kris don’t discount the Concussion McCann received yesterday - sometimes concussions have lasting effects on players and he may not bounce back very quickly.
Thanks for the uplifting words.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Bay could be a valuable piece for next year, but doesn’t it seem like the Braves have been buying high and selling low lately? I mean we got Tex last year for some of our top-rated prospects because he was THE GUY to get, and now we’re sitting here today looking at getting Chad Tracy and a mid-level prospect or two in return for him.
Right now everyone wants a power hitting right handed bat. So if we go after Bay (one of the best if not the best RH hitters available) we are going to have to give up another highly prized group of prospects to beat out the other potential suitors for him.
How is this building for the future if all we are doing is buying high and selling low? If we suck again next year are going to trade Bay before his contract runs out for another injury prone bum and a mid-level prospect?
We should have a decent amount of money to spend in the off-season so let’s just wait and see what is available then instead of giving up some more highly prized prospects when everyone is trying to get the same guy. Let someone else give up their farm system for Bay.
By Cork
July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
McCann’s out. A full week of Corky behind the plate. Feels like it’s the 80’s all over again! Where ever Tex gets traded can the Braves send Boyer also to carry his bags.
By don
July 28, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Good grief! Now the morons are rumored to be trying to pull another Teixeira fiasco for Jason Bay. Don’t they ever learn?
Surely they aren’t dumb enough to trade prospects like Jones, Hernandez, Hanson, and/or (worst of all) Jason Heyward?
Unfortunately, they may well be that dumb.
By BravesFan79
July 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
If we DO become sellers… i say we trade Tex, see what we can get for Soriano and Kotsay, and perhaps get a few bats for Corky and his “defensive specialist abilities” lol… A few bats might be asking for 2 much for Corky tho…how about a bag of Cheetos for the clubhouse? Would be about as usefull…
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Three Way trade idea:
Braves get: Jason Bay, Connor Jackson,
D’Backs get: Tex, Ohman, A-Ball prospect
Pirates get: Owings, Tracy, B. Jones
By UGAFan
July 28, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Jason Bay is the perfect acquisition for this team. He’s not a Scott Boras client, and he would be able to be given a cheaper long-term deal than Mark Teixeira.
Bay would give the Braves the production they need from a right-handed bat in left field. They could easily shift Blanco in center (I do think Kotsay will be traded away too).
Plus, Bay would provide more clutch hits than Tex would. Tex has only shown a few times where he can hit in a clutch situation over almost an entire year in a Braves uniform.
Giving up Lillibridge, B. Jones, and two more prospects doesn’t seem to be a steep price to pay to get Jason Bay. If Tex is traded, he will return a prospect or two back into the farm system. Plus, the Braves would be able to keep onto their top prospects while obtaining a big bat.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
At this point, I think any and all trades should bring back nothing but quality prospects.. It really doesn’t matter to me whether the Braves finish in 4th or 5th this year.. I’d venture to say, it’ll be 2-3 years after Cox is gone before the Braves are contenders again.
With that said, the Braves MUST get rid of the lamers in the bullpen! The only three I want to see there next year is Gonzalez, Smoltz, Stockman.
By William
July 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Anything you trade for, needs to have long-term potential. Dont bother with anyone that is a FA after only a year or two. I say you trade Tex for some young prospects, then when his salary along with Hudson/Smoltz/Glavine are off the books… we can wave a big wad of cash at some quality free-agents. Personally, I trade Escobar… He has enough potential to get something big in return, but his attitude will make him always be a problem and dissappointment I am willing to bet.
By Kentavo
July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Remember when the Phils shed Abreu and (?) at the deadline a couple of years ago and actually got better?
Maybe we need to do something like that - ship Tex and Frenchy to shake things up a bit, without totally conceding the season.
If Tex were traded for a MLB-ready 1B, such as Youk, Kotchman or Loney, it’s a play for now and the future, in my opinion.
By Kentavo
July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Remember when the Phils shed Abreu and (?) at the deadline a couple of years ago and actually got better?
Maybe we need to do something like that - ship Tex and Frenchy to shake things up a bit, without totally conceding the season.
If Tex were traded for a MLB-ready 1B, such as Youk, Kotchman or Loney, it’s a play for now and the future, in my opinion.
By Threadkiller
July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
“Good things come to those who wait!!” Not during the trading deadline!! Sheeesh, we could have made this deal a week ago and got the players the Yankees did!
By TNJeff
July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Dodgers have benched Andruw - just think he & Frenchy could be stinking it up together in the Bravos line-up since Cox would never risk hurting his players feelings by such a move.
ANY CHANCE BRAVES DEAL FRENCHY?
By James
July 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
To all those Braves coaches and management who said back in June “it’s to early to panic”, I guess now it’s past time to panic. Why wouldn’t you belive the vast majority of us who kept saying that a win now is one you wont have to win in August? A win is a win no matter when it happens, just like a loss is a loss. That cool business like demeanor has gotten this team nowhere in three years. Chipper said himself that Bobby Cox is the “same now as he has always been.” Does anybody besides me see a problem with that comment? Chipper is right, Cox hasn’t changed. Opposing teams have adjusted to beat “Bobby Ball” You know, no stealing, no hit and run,just sit back and wait for a bomb, he’s gonna bring in Boyer to pitch, now Ring is coming in to pitch. How PREDICTABLE! Every game it’s the same thing! Maybe now that the season is lost, Cox will entertain some new baseball concepts like stealing a base, not worrying about a lefty/righty matchup, bunting etc. And who cares if you have been thrown out of 241 ball games? It’s not firing anyone up anymore. Look in the stands when you do it, everyone thinks it’s pathetic.
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Maybe we should hire Wellman [Human Restasis] as batting coach. If Chronic Dry-Eye is the source of Stenchy’s vision malady, then Wellman is THE MAN!
By David-ATL14
July 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
I don’t think anyoen considers Scott Thorman an answer to any question the denizens have here?
Anyway Thorman is departing for China today as a member of the canadian Olympic team.
So put the Thorman nonsense to rest. Thankfully.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
McFann,
Not to be all doom and gloom about it, but concussions are serious. There are tons of players who have had concussions and have taken a long time to come back - if at all. I am sure McCann will be fine, but let’s not try to rush him back or put pressure on him because we are delusional about making a run.
It’s perfectly fine to rebuild for next year and the future so let’s do it and not keep pretending like we are still in it this year.
By wanax
July 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
The bay trade doesn’t make any sense even if it is about the future.
Why give up a MLB ready OF (Jones) an extremely talented SS with offensive upside (lillibridge) AND a “good” A ball pitching prospect AND another prospect for a power hitting OF that will stay in ATL for 15 months?
One player is going to solve any of our problems (especially offensive problems) and Bay will walk after next year.
We should be stockpiling guys like lillibridge and jones. What was jason bay a few years ago? A talented prospect just like jones and lillibridge.
And don’t forget that the Pirates want MORE than Jones, Lillibridge, and two prospects.
By Goodoleboy58
July 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
I’m excited about seeing Sammons up here to catch for us… If he can do a halfway decent job maybe he’ll take the roster spot of Corky
By StingerSplash
July 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Transactions Journalists Yahoo — Signs Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe in exchange for a winning (professional) hockey team and winters that don’t suck out loud.
Still think Yahoo got the better end of that deal.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
With that said, the Braves MUST get rid of the lamers in the bullpen! The only three I want to see there next year is Gonzalez, Smoltz, Stockman.
I forgot Moylan, and he is welcome in the pen!
This assumes Ohman will be traded and/or not resigned. Sorry, we like to waste money on people like Soriano so no money for you!
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Yes, yes, it’s true, the Braves are going to trade Hanson, Hernandez, Schafer (sp.), Heyward, and Jones for Jason Bay.
We are going to trade every single one of our prospects because we don’t know what we’re doing.
Meanwhile, we’re going to trade Escobar for Renteria and McCann for Pudge (because we owe the Tigers a couple of favors).
Our line-up
CF Blanco SS Renteria RF Francoeur (extended for 5 years, $60 million) 3B Chipper LF Bay C Pudge Rodriguez 2B Kelly Johnson 1B Thorman
Yes, we have a plan!
Your 2009 Atlanta Braves!
By bravesfaninmetsland
July 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
You know, while I never got down on tex in his slow start and always thought he was a good player, I have to agree with the SI article. I mean think about it, as good as he is, tex isn’t one of those players that set the tone for a team. He didn’t have the impact McGriff or Big Cat did when they came here.
And as good as he’s played the last bunch of weeks, when this season started and he stunk Chipper carried this team and kept them in it. Now that Chiipper’s cooled off, although Tex is playing well, can you really say he’s carried this team? No. Thanks for your year of service Tex, and good luck in Arizona you’ll need it.
By Cecil34
July 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
McFann
I sure wish Mac had been playing first yesterday, how about you?
Now, we don’t have his bat for a few….
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
bgvt
You need to read that Elias stat more closely.
It didn’t say the braves blew a 9 run lead. It says it’s the first time since 1912 the braves lost after scoring 9 runs in 1 inning.
By Original Jon
July 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Tomahawk Kris Basically the Braves would be adding Bay for next year, and if it somehow magically sparked the team to make a drive for this year, then thats an extra added bonus. But Bay would more than likely be a trade that benefited us next year, not this one. But, I imagine if we could get Bay this year and trade Tex for a Casey Kotchman type player, theres no reason they should fully give up on this season. But the bullpen has to have something done to it, we cannot keep running out the same players in the close and late innings and expect to win, we should have swept the Phillies this weekend, but no, we lost huge leads late the past two games, so I say, try to trade Tex for Kotchman and another bullpen arm and keep Ohman.
By Dadgum
July 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
How can Thorman be going to the Olympics? Isn’t he under contract to the Braves? Was it written into his contract that he could play in the Olympics? Did he ask the Braves and they said OK? Just curious….
Rock on…..
By wanax
July 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
What type of salary will Jason Bay command after next season?
If we did make a deal for him, what is the likelihood that we could keep him after next year?
By Jeff R
July 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Does management really need to aquire a major league 1st baseman in exchange for Super Tex? As DOB wrote, short of a guarantee, what team is going to give up a really good first sacker under contract to take a chance on Super Tex?
Let’s not forget the Rentería deal with Detroit. If Wren could snag a couple of near-ready prospects, I think that would be a heckuva good deal.
By Deb Mavrick
July 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Delusional! For five years many inside and out of baseball have said the Braves orginization was not even close to being the class of the National leauge let alone the East division.
Now with the Mets and Phillies stocked to make 5 year runs at it every season and the Marlins not close behind it’s time for Brave’s fans to get read up on pre-1990 Braves history!
Trade for Tex for two post-season runs in 2006 & 2007. The Mets crushed the east in ‘06 & the Phillies did it in ‘07. Now it looks as if the Fish will do it ‘08.
What’s next the Nats in ‘09, one thing for sure it won’t be the Bravos anytime soon!
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
You’re right Kris, concussions can cause lingering vision problems among many others.
By Sell now
July 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Braves trade Mark Teixiera to the D-Backs for Chad Tracy, Jarrod Parker, Barry Enright and Gerardo Parra.
Braves trade Will Ohman to the Yankees for Jesus Montero.
Braves trade Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge, Cole Rohrbough and Jon Mark Owings to the Pirates for Jason Bay.
Done, Done and Done.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
DOB and the Braves website has been awful quiet today….i say something is going down…
By Jeff
July 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Man, I’d bet Eddie Perez can still hit better than Corky. We’d be better off activating him to back up Sammons tonight. I still can’t figure out not keeping Bryan Pena and although I think Escobar should suck it up, he hasn’t been the same since Pena was dealt.
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Are the Teixeira jerseys on sale at the Braves store yet?
By GB
July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
brent a., If the Braves thought Saltalamacchia could become an above average firstbaseman, I’m guessing they would have thrown in other pieces in the trade for Tex instead of Saltalamacchia. They would have done all they could to not include Salty in that trade.
It’s as much about offensive value as defensive value. If Salty plays first, you have a below average offensive and defensive firstbaseman.
Braves get: Jason Bay, Connor Jackson,
D’Backs get: Tex, Ohman, A-Ball prospect
Pirates get: Owings, Tracy, B. Jones
I don’t think the D-Backs would give up Conner Jackson for two months of Tex, a relief pitcher and a prospect that’s at least two or three years from the big leagues and probably more.
And I’m not sure why the Pirates would want a 28-year-old corner infielder/outfielder who is solid but nothing special; a pitcher who probably isn’t anything more than a mid rotation guy at best; and an okay corner outfield prospect for their most valuable commodity.
This would be a steal for the Braves and not a wise move at all for the other two teams.
TNJeff, why would the Braves give up on Frenchy at this point (unless they are “blown away” which isn’t going to happen)? If he has a .288 OBP at this time next season, maybe they’ll look into other options. But why give up on a 24-year-old with some potential?
By glove51
July 28, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Would the Pirates trade Bay straight up for Francouer?
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Deb. Anything else?
By GB
July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
DOB My memory is crap, but didn’t Francoeur get beaned earlier in the year? I’d be curious to see how he was hitting before that.
By Joe
July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
BFan 79 the Cheetos quote was awesome. Also Brent that is a perfect lineup.(ha-ha). Why not trade Tex for ManRam
By Randy
July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Here’s what should happen: Braves trade Tex and Ohman to Red Sox for Justin Masterson,Brandon Moss,and Sean Casey….Red Sox trade Manny to Mets for prospects,and move Youkilis to LF…everybody wins-Sox get rid of Manny problem and use his money to sign Tex long-term and get the bullpen help they need…Braves get a 1B fill-in for a year or two and two bright prospects…Mets bring Manny home for big bat they need.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Original Jon,
So let me get this straight - for next year we make a trade now for Jason Bay when his trade value is probably the highest it is ever going to be in the hopes that it will all redeem itself next season??? Teams building for the future don’t make moves like that - at least the smart one’s don’t.
I like Jason Bay and I think he would be great in a Braves Uni, but now is not the time to go after him and if someone else picks him up and has to pay a Kings ransom for him then by all means good for them. We aren’t conteding this year - we are contending next year and years after so lets act like it and not trade away our farm system for the hottest guy on the market.
We did that last year and look where we are today - 4th place in the mediocre NL East.
By Serge
July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
How many GMS voted for Franceour in that “build a team” thing
for that matter does Wren still think the 3 days in AA fixed him? Please ask him Dave
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
I agree that we need to hang on to Ohman.
By Joe
July 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Frenchy will be traded to Royals for DeJesus
By Paul In Richmond
July 28, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
What is sad is that the fans DO want a winner. I remember a standing ovation for Tex when he came to bat - not because he did anything particularly spectacular - but because the fans had hope that the team would have a spark. A fire. A wave of emotion that would boost them.
Then Tex, like so many of the others, seemed to fall into a lethargic, business as usual, drumbeat. He is a careful solid hitter and an excellent glove but he is not a team leader and nobody is going to rally a group around him. Frankly his stats do not match all the hype. My guess is that there is less interest in him that all the posters believe.
No, the problem is the leadership. The Cox pattern of letting bad hitters hold lineup spots even when they stink. The Jones pattern of playing part time and sitting part time. And the trainers who should all be fired for allowing professional athletes to come down with strains, sprains, pulls, and Gosh knows what else. (maybe this team needs to do some exercises every day and play some music in the lockerroom. Maybe we need some “team meetings” and some knock down pitches and even some brawls to prove that this bunch is alive and kicking)
But lets remember - one or two new players will not turn this group around. Not without a sea change in attitude.
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
What would the Braves have done with Saltalamacchia in 07 and 08 if they had kept him and still acquired Teixeira?
How would playing him behind Brian McCann once every 5 days have helped him progress into an above average first baseman?
Also, considering the ransom they paid to acquire Teixeira, what do you think they could have placed into the deal in lieu of Salty? Wasn’t he essentially the center piece for that deal?
By Greg O.
July 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
I can’t see the Braves luring any of the desired first basemen discussed (Kotchman, Loney, CoJack, Youkilis) for Tex. I, admittedly, have been on the Trade-Tex Bandwagon since things went downhill in June, but that was under the assumption that the trade market would be far better for a slick-fielding, power-hitting run-producer at first base. But unless the Braves can get Max Scherzer or Jarrod Parker from the DBacks, Nick Adenhart from the Angels or Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers (i.e. top pitching prospects), I’m all for the Braves holding onto Tex, keeping some hope alive for this season, negotiating with him in the offseason, and if they lose him, so be it. Take the two draft picks and move on. I’m just not convinced the Braves could get either one elite prospect or two players that would turn out better than the two potential top-40 picks in next year’s draft. For the most part, the playoff contenders this season just aren’t in dire need of first basemen.
I’d keep the same strategy in mind for Ohman, as well. I’d imagine he ranks similarly to Ron Mahay last year, meaning he’d net the Braves a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds of the draft. If the Braves can’t get a player better than that (keeping in mind that Joba Chamberlain was taken in this area of the draft a few years ago), I say keep him around and see if he’ll sign in the offseason. It’s apparent that he likes Atlanta and I think the Braves have a fair shot at keeping him. Again, if he bolts, I think the Braves could put the draft pick to good use.
By ppaddy123
July 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if anyone cares, or not, but Valdosta, Ga. has just been named “Title Town USA” by ESPN. You may all return to your regular programming.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Wanax, I didn’t say it made sense, and I didn’t say the Braves offered those players. I’m just commenting that if the Braves traded for Bay, it’d be about next season more than about making a highly unlkely run this season.
And no, I wouldn’t give up four strong prospects including a top pitching prospect to get him. One year after the Braves were ripped in many quarters for trading five prospects to get Tex and Mahay, how much do you think they’d get ripped for trading four prospects to get Bay?
Not that I think that would have anything to do with their decision to do such a deal. I just don’t think they’re going to trade away that much talent for a player of Bay’s caliber (very good player, but not a great player).
I think they’d give up a few good-to-fringe prospects, maybe even a top (non-pitching) prospect or two. But I can’t see giving up more than that, including a package that includes one of their top pitching prospects.
By LivininAL
July 28, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Well one thing Tex mentioned was correct, the remainder of this year is gonna be a hella of a long MARATHON for Braves fans!!
By Kootchypop
July 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur for Zach Grienke
Kelly Johnson for Brian Roberts
Tex for Kotchman & Prospect
By TNJeff
July 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I don’t think Frenchy will agree to go back down to the minors & Cox won’t bench wonderboy for the better of the team.
Frenchy did good in minors because of inferior talent & perhaps they didn’t know the angle on him (can’t hit high hard stuff but will swing most every time). SO, perhaps minors isn’t the answer either as far as him working out his problems.
Sensing another Brad Komminsk in the making / look at our former center fielder - benched & I think his career is in serious jeopardy!
By Jeff R
July 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Management isn’t going to hang on to Ohman; they’re just not going to give mid thirties reliever a multiyear/multi-million dollar contract.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
wanax,
Brandon Jones had an opportunity to win the LF job in the spring and didn’t. The Braves OF have a total of 20 HR. And yet Brandon Jones is still playing in Richmond.
Bay has hit more than 20 HR in five major league seasons and more than 30 HR in two. Jones has hit more than 10 in one minor league season.
If you think Jones is equal to Bay in talent (or even potential), then you’re seeing something that everyone else is missing.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
GB
Not sure if i can answer your question, but I am reminded of a line from Christmas Vacation.
“She falls down a well, her eyes go crossed. She gets kicked by a mule, they go back.”
I mean getting beaned by a pitch ain’t exactly fallin’ down a well, but maybe we can find ourselves a mule.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Tomahawk Kris—
I know concussions are serious things. He’s going to come back, but I hope they don’t rush him either. Wait at least a week…maybe more…well, I don’t know.
Like I said, if they DL’d him now (which I doubt), then he’s eligible to come off it the day before we attend our next game…
Cecil34—
I don’t know…he’s never played first before. But I sure as heck wish Ryan Howard hadn’ta made contact on that pitch from Ring!
By TNJeff
July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Also, by this time next year IF Frenchy is continuing in this slump - the Braves won’t get ANYTHING for him in a trade.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
it’s now or never in terms of Bay, and hopefully Wren gets this deal done. Because then we can re-sign him. People are saying we can get Bay later…there’s no way we trade for him next year, and after that he’ll be long gone to another team. I say trade B. Jones, Lil’Bridge, and Chucky James W/ K. Kaaihue to Pittsburgh for Bay and some cash considerations.
By TommyP
July 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Best time of the baseball season….trade deadline talk.
Doesn’t get better, especially if your team is involved as a buyer or seller.
Gonna be interesting to see what Wren can do. The Renteria deal has turned out incredible.
The Kotsay deal hasn’t been great but hasn’t been horrible, either. I just think they went the wrong way with whom they acquired.
By Ed Glennon
July 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
I was very unimpressed with Tex’s answer to the question whether a possible trade bothers him. It doesn’t bother him. He will go where the money is. I liked it that Kotsay was a little nervous and even Ohman. Tex is fine with Atlanta or Pittsburg, doesn’t matter to Tex. Get rid of him.
By IgCognito
July 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Another Stark post regarding Braves on MLBTradeRumors:
“Braves lefty Will Ohman is drawing plenty of interest, with the Tigers, Rays, Yankees, and Cardinals named as suitors. Perhaps the Yanks’ interest will diminish now that they have Damaso Marte.”
By BostonBravesGirl
July 28, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Randy, according to the Boston Globe today, the Mets don’t want Manny, and the Sox are pretty well enamoured of Justin Masterson right now, so I don’t see them getting rid of him.
I’d support a trade of Youk for Tex; I love Youk’s grittiness and his guts (and he’s cheap!), but so do the Sox so it won’t happen.
By Donger
July 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Some of the poeple on this blog are such morons. “Trade Reyes, KJ, Escobar, Brandon Jones… and..!” Zip it up knucklehead. Do you guys not realize that this is a young team? Why in the world would you want to trade Yunel so you can bring up an even greener kid? Reyes has been roughed up, but he’s only 23. He has great stuff and will be a stud if he puts it together.
The mentality here is to trade trade trade away our young prospects for someone like Jason Bay, who is so streaky it’s not even funny. Or Halladay (did you really say Reyes, KJ, Escobar for Halladay? What a numbskull! We need power in the outfield, but let’s not go crazy with the ludicrous trade talk.
Don’t keep giving away 4-5 top prospects or young players for one player. It never works.
By coach k
July 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
GO PETE… wish more people would be psst off should have cleared the bench after Mccann got rolled over fand this team has no guts and no balls.. it is why we have one championship. Get FRenchy out of this lineup he is killing us, pay tex, bring up Brandon Jones and shove BOOBY Cox out, he has no clue how to manange or work his pitchers, thank GOD he had Glavin , SMoltz and Maddox. Tired of the same lame excuses, the good teams get it done, 0-25 in 1 run games on the road is ludicrous
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Good article by Jayson Stark:
The most pivotal name here in Trade Deadline Week 2008 has tried his best not to read all the rumors he’s so good at inspiring. A lot of good that does him.
“People tell me about it anyway,” Mark Teixeira said. “Even if I don’t read it, people are going to tell me about it. So I hear all the rumors whether I want to or not.”
Well, if Mark Teixeira is listening, here’s what he needs to know about the next 72 hours or so:
He should keep a phone number of Allied Van Lines real handy.
As of early Monday, the Braves hadn’t glued a ribbon on Teixeira’s head and stationed him in their main display window — yet. But we’re hearing they have gathered their chief decision-makers in Atlanta for a meeting Monday afternoon.
And if Topic A at that meeting isn’t “Trade Mark Teixeira,” then it’s only because Topic A will be: “Turkey or ham?”
The feeling of clubs that have spoken with Braves GM Frank Wren is that he hasn’t seen anything lately that would convince him his team has a 41-17 run in it (which is what it would take to get to 90 wins). And neither has anyone else.
Wren followed his team to Philadelphia over the weekend, to try to get “a feel” for which way it was headed, he said. What he witnessed was almost incomprehensible — a weekend in which the Braves blew leads of five-plus runs to the same team in back-to-back games for the first time in franchise history.
“I don’t know how he could watch that,” said an official of one club monitoring the Teixeira situation closely, “and come away thinking they’ve still got a shot at this thing.”
So if the GM came away from that trip thinking what we think he’ll be thinking, it’s about to be Selling Time. And if it’s Selling Time, that means one thing:
Mark Teixeira — not Manny Ramirez — is about to zoom into the No. 1 spot on the Trade Deadline Names to Watch list.
That’s going to mean a lot of familiar-sounding trade-rumor questions flying Teixeira’s way. But at least he has his answers down cold by now. He got a lot of chances to practice them a year ago this time, when he was hanging out in Arlington, Texas, waiting for the Rangers to deal him to parts unknown.
“The only difference,” Teixeira said, “is that last year, I was kind of ready to move on from Texas. … But this year, I really want to stick it out with the Braves and see if we can make a run.”
Unfortunately, his employers have been looking hard for signs that that run has begun, and they haven’t quite seen a re-enactment of 1914, or even 1991, erupt before their eyes. The Braves are now 4-5 since the All-Star break, 9-12 this month and 23-34 since May 22. So over the past third of the season, they have a worse record than the Pirates, Royals or Giants. Not a good way to persuade a GM to conclude it’s time to go for it.
And the Braves’ players know the GM has been watching, too. Even Teixeira has apparently gotten enough second-half information to figure out that every game on the schedule this month had the potential to be the game that determined whether his team kept him or dealt him.
“We’d obviously like to win these games anyway,” Teixeira said. “But I have a little extra incentive, because I’d like to stay. I realize that things are going to happen in this game that are out of your control. And over the next two months, a lot of things are going to happen that are going to be out of my control. But once I get to free agency, that’s when I get to start making the calls.”
That’s true. But this week, it will be his general manager making the calls. And the teams, it appears, that are still in play when he dials that phone are the Diamondbacks, Rays, Red Sox and Angels.
When you analyze those three teams, however, the fit isn’t perfect anywhere, the way it was last year when Teixeira found himself the object of the Braves’, Angels’ and Diamondbacks’ transactional affection.
Tampa Bay is looking for a right-handed-hitting right fielder, not a first baseman. The Red Sox don’t have a place to fit David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell and Teixeira even if they unload Manny. The Angels love their first baseman, Casey Kotchman, and seem more focused on a low-level bullpen deal. And none of those teams would give up its first baseman for a two-month rental of Teixeira.
So that still seems to leave Arizona as the best fit. Despite reports that Atlanta would insist on getting Conor Jackson back for Teixeira, one source with knowledge of those clubs’ conversations says those reports are “not accurate.”
“‘Insist’ is not the right word,” the source said. “For one thing, there hasn’t been that much conversation. That would insinuate somebody walked away from an offer that didn’t include him. And that’s not the case.”
Would the Braves take Chad Tracy and a package of other names? We’re about to find out. But we’ve heard nothing to convince us it’s out of the question.
In the meantime, the man in the middle of this rumor storm keeps hoping there’s something he and his teammates can do to keep him in Atlanta and write another chapter in the Miracle Braves storybook.
“Last year in our division, the Phillies came back from seven down with 17 to play, right?” Teixeira observed. “The only problem is, we have three other teams in front of us. So if we’re going to make a run, we need to start chipping away pretty quick.”
No kidding. Like instantaneously.
By wanax
July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
I don’t think Jones is equal to Bay right now. And I didn’t say that earlier.
I just said that Jones, Lillibridge, and two prospects are worth MORE COLLECTIVELY than Jason Bay for the rest of this season and next season.
I would trade Jones for Bay in a heart beat. You could even throw in a couple of hitters that are low level prospects or a pitching prospect and come out ahead in the deal.
But the pirates are asking too much for Bay and it isn’t worth it.
By IgCognito
July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Excellent article by Stark here
By Just So You Know
July 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
This is what will happen.
Wren will make a decision on who is traded for whom or he will decide no trade be made at all.
The Braves will not be making any sort of post-season appearance this season.
This team has several holes to fill next season. It is not a quick easy fix that any one trade will cure. it will only start the ball rolling.
The baseball bloggers that are also real football fans, have a few short weeks before the season kicks off. At least we have something to look forward to.
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
It seems to me that the only trades that make sense for the Braves are ones where they fill holes with players already at the major league level. At least one hole and maybe then a good prospect.
Getting a 1st baseman in return, or a LF should be a no brainer if the idea is to contend next year.
Giving up B Jones and Lillbridge is too much for Bay. B Jones and Prado yes, but don’t give them back a player you got them to give up last offseason!
If we can’t fill holes, or get another stud starter, then take the draft picks.
Why all the ill will towards Boyer now? It is obvious what’s going on…he’s TIRED!!!
I pray he hasn’t reinjured his arm.
If not overused, he’s a stud in the pen. Same for Acosta. If getting injured could ever be a blessing, it might in the case of Acosta.
DOB why no injury update for Acosta? Seems to me the Braves miss him in the pen?
By Original Jon
July 28, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Andy K Why would the D-Backs give up Jackson AND Tracy AND Owings for basically Tex, Ohman and a minor leaguer, bad trade on their part. Not gonna happen
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
And Shaun, Please before you go on and respond again as if I’m advocating a trade for Saltalamacchia so he can play first base next year - I’m not, and I haven’t.
I just asked and you responded. And if I comment, I’m sure you’ll respond again.
I’m sure we happen to disagree on exactly what the thought process was when the Tex trade was made, regarding Saltalamacchia’s involvement.
We can disagree and continue to discuss it, but I don’t want to anymore because I find it pretty boring, actually.
What I was bringing up earlier is that looking at next year, and what may be some limited options at 1B, would the Braves consider re-acquiring Saltalamacchia to use at either catcher (moving McCann) or 1B. that’s it. You’ve stated you don’t think the Braves would’ve traded Saltalamacchia if they thought he could be an above average first baseman. That’s fine, but it doesn’t address the other pieces, not the least of which has to do with what the Braves plan to do moving forward.
With little doubt, we will likely need an upgrade at back-up catcher next season, even if it ends up being a back-up who ends up playing everyday because McCann is shifted.
Over-all, I’d rather see us acquire a real first baseman (you know, perhaps someone of the ilk of Scott Thorman or Craig Wilson), because McCann is a great hitter, and happens to be our catcher. If you move him to first, you guarantee reduced production from behind the plate, and if the new catcher does not produce as well as our first base alternative (whomever that might be), then we have made a bad decision.
But, that being said, Saltalamacchia for cheap might be worth looking into. If not him, then maybe Laird.
By Dudeman
July 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
The Braves will not get much in return for Texiera. Who is going to give up young talent for a two month rental. Few teams can afford $20 million that his agent Scott Boras seeks. Boston, one of those teams certainly will not part with Kevin Youkilis as most Braves fans believe (more like hope) they might. If i’m the Red Sox and have won two championships without Tex, I’m thinking why do I need him? New York can also afford Tex’s asking price, but who do they have left in young talent that Atlanta needs. The Yankees don’t seem eager to part with their youngsters lately. And only an idiot GM would trade Arizona’s Conor Jackson, (.324 with a .407 OBP, with 12 homers and 55 RBI. That includes a sublime .396 average and 1.137 OPS in 96 at-bats vs. lefties). Opposing GMs know Atlanta will lose Tex at the end of the year, so why overpay. My heartburn is if Will Ohman is doing so well, why not try to resign him? Yes, the prvailing opinion is the Braves don’t want to pay the kind of money it would take to keep a middle reliever, but it’s that type of thinking that is the reason five and six run leads get blown in late July.
By ArkyTech
July 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
If we can’t get Connor Jackson, maybe the Braves will settle for Chad Tracy if Arizona throws in in a right-handed bat with a little pop - preferably someone who’s played some 1B. How about Micah Owings! He could be the right-handed platoon with Tracy….pitch a little on the side…..
By monty
July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
THE Phils own the BRAves, especially when it comes to feasting on Braves pitching. Even 6-and 5 runs down there was no sense of panic on the Phils players they just grind away at you like the Yankees of the late 90’s. I don’t know who develops a game plan of how you pitch to them but whoever does it should get another job.
No one knows yet how to get their catcher out. Howard hits us .100 points higher than he does everyone else.They just demoralize you and finally make you cry uncle. I don’t know how they don’t win the East. We got spanked and Chase Utley didn’t even hit a lick
By Ron Roberts
July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
I’m guessing that the Jason Bay deal might’ve gone down had we not blown two consecutive huge leads in back-to-back days over the weekend.
But offense wasn’t our problem over the weekend; and frankly, while our bullpen let us down, I believe it wasn’t that we called on our bullpen, those days; I believe it was who we called on.
Yeah, I know; hundsight’s 20/20. But as DOB pointed out, Ring and Boyer have been in decline of late, and while serviceable for us, Julian Tavares has been getting his teeth kicked in good beforehand all season.
I said it over the weekend, and it bears repeating: this series should’ve been managed like a playoff or College World Series game by Bobby Cox. Knowing how much was riding on this road trip (are we buying or are we selling?), every game mattered that much more, in the eyes of Braves’ management.
Eric Karros was horrendous, on the whole, but one valid point he made Saturday was the when a game is really “saved” versus the tried-and-true definition of ending the game in the 9th.
We needed a “save” situation out of a bona-fide “stopper” and never called on either of our two closers - Raphael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez - when they were truly needed.
Hell, the fact that we have two guys of that caliber as closers should’ve made this decision an E A S Y one for us. When Hampton walked the bases loaded, where were Will Ohman or Soriano or Gonzo?
When JoJo got into trouble after the rain delay, where were these guys, then?
I’m telling ya, it’s Bobby’s M-O to call on guys in excess; when Kenny Albert mentioned Blayne Boyer’s saturday appearance was a “league-leading” figure - I just got a knot in my stomach.
I’m not putting this entire season’s letdown on Bobby, but I do think the bullpen wasn’t used properly this weekend, especially given the importance of this past roadtrip.
We should’ve come home from a 5-1 roadtrip feeling like we’re in this thing.
About the trades options… Makes no sense for Arizona to deal with us; unless we throw in something they want that’s long term and valuable, why would they? I don’t see why the Angels would deal, either, except they might covet Ohman more than Tex, but would package ‘em for Kotchman and something of theirs that’s in question but has “potential.”
And hell, dont’ we have enough “potential” stars? Wasn’t Francoeur a “potential” star? So was Brad Komminks, wasn’t he?
I was actually encouraged by what we saw of Hampton, and think his addition to the rotation (barring, you know, an injury) will be a positive for an already pretty-good rotation; get Chipper and McCann back to health, get Diaz back in the lineup, and just stick with what we got, I say.
I don’t think there’s enough time for that to make us a serious threat to win a playoff spot, but it’s our best option for “bettering” the current Braves’ team without it costing us anything, and if/when Tex walks, we get the draft picks. Then we’ve lost nothing else, gained draft picks and have financial flexibility to better the 2009 team, which will already start off in pretty good shape, minus a hole at 1B and LF, but plenty of money to fix ‘em both with.
By J.D. Phillps
July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Reyes has been roughed up, but he’s only 23. He has great stuff and will be a stud if he puts it together.
This statment has 2 words that do not belong together. Can anyone pick them out? I will give a clue: they reference a baseball player’s name and the other is what Matthew McConaughey is.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Tomahawk Kris, I think a Bay trade is a good idea for three good prospects (maybe BJones and a couple of others). But nothing more. And I don’t think the Pirates would take that. The point is, though, that Bay wouldn’t just be about this season. It would be this and next season.
What would the Braves have done with Saltalamacchia in 07 and 08 if they had kept him and still acquired Teixeira?
They would have kept him in the minors most of that time until ‘09, and brought him up to be the firstbaseman. But he’s not a firstbaseman and he was their best prospect so they gave him up to get Tex.
How would playing him behind Brian McCann once every 5 days have helped him progress into an above average first baseman?
He wouldn’t have played behind McCann every five days if he were a firstbaseman, and he isn’t likely to progress into an above average firstbaseman. Again, he would have been in the minors most of that time waiting for Tex to leave.
Also, considering the ransom they paid to acquire Teixeira, what do you think they could have placed into the deal in lieu of Salty? Wasn’t he essentially the center piece for that deal?
Not necessarily. I think the Rangers were looking to unload Tex. Granted, the Braves would have had to give up a different top prospect or a couple more lesser prospects.
I suppose your argument is that Saltalamacchia could be an above average major league firstbaseman and his position had virtually no bearing on the Braves giving him up.
But I don’t think so. I see nothing in Saltalamacchia’s minor league numbers that indicate he can one day hit like an above average major league firstbaseman. He’ll be a very good hitter but I think for a firstbaseman, he would simply be adequate at best. Throw in the fact that he’s a catcher and has always been a catcher, and I think the Braves had to move him.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Talking to someone I trust in PIttsburgh, and he tells me that Pirates ownership is completely out of the business of stopping deals and such, so he doesn’t think that happened.
He also said the Pirates are not trading Bay, by the way, unless they get exactly what they want, because with McClouth and their other OFs making no money, they can easily afford to pay Bay not just next year ($7.5 mill) but even if his salary goes to $12 mill or so after that as a free agent, and he supposedly wants to stay there, too.
Just letting you know, that’s what I hear. Like I said, it’s a person I trust and who is well connected there.
By TheCutMan
July 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
At some point in time, and I believe that time is at hand for the Braves, the franchise has to stand back and take a hard, close look at themselves to determine the best course of action at present and the near future.
That ‘look’ has to be unbiased, and one bereft of denial. FAR easier said than done, I might add.
If I’m calling the shots for the Braves, I’d look to a similar situation with my KC Chiefs and their young owner, Clark Hunt, for some guidance. For far too many seasons, the Chiefs have gone all-in for the seasoned veterans like Ty Law, Kendrell Bell, Joe Montana, and others to get that edge and over the hump into the promised land of post-season success.
It hasn’t worked out. So now comes a young Chief’s owner who has issued an edict that the team will not only build with youth but also has made it known that any coach hired in the future must be in tune with this mind-set, i.e., no more risky investments in over paid vets that most likely will have seen their best days behind them.
How will it work out? Time will tell, but the one glaring thing the Chiefs and Braves have in common is that neither team has realized any recent measure of genuine success by following the rent or lease-a-player strategy.
My view, then, is that the Braves’ upper management should go with youth, take their lumps with this current roster, not give up any of their bright farmhands and live to fight another day next year.
Will they do it? Not a chance and so, we start the merry-go-round of musical quick-fix players again. And so, someone or many someones will again say, ‘They are what they are’.
By kev
July 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Do any of these teams the Braves are looking to trade Tex to have a solid pitching prospect they could ask for? I’ve always thought the Braves needed another young #2-3 type guy in the rotation to complement Hudson and Jurrjens.
By JEB
July 28, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
I see the Braves only making a trade that will still keep them competitive for the rest of this season (still have to sell tickets) and help improve their team for next year.
The trade to LA Angels probably would work best for all parties involved. Angels CAN sign TEX for next year (have the money to do it) they will win this year and help their future chances also!
The sad part for McCann: having a concussion (even a mild one) affects your balance and vision for 2 - 3 weeks, sometimes more. After he comes back, it would be a miracle if he does not struggle. Let’s keep our prayers up for him! A concussion is jolt to the brain and nervous system. Swellinng and and adjustment follow.
I totally agree the players union needs to step up and force a rulling that a runner must be making an attempt to get to the base (sliding, etc.) NOT plowing through a catcher to get to a base! You’re not allowed to do it at any other base, why shoul home plate be an exception! (Just because the catcher has gear on??)
This is all a personal note to me. I’ve watched my son play the position from little league, high school, college, and minors. I’ve seen the blows and watched the recovery. I’ve seen some serious injuries take place, knowing changes needed to be made!
By Ron Roberts
July 28, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The Chad Tracy talk seems worth listening to, if it’s true. Tracy’s no Texiera, but he’s no Adam LaRoche, either. In fact, I think he’s somewhere in between, statistically speaking.
Getting him and Jason Bay for this and next season wouldn’t be much about this yer, but sure would set us up for 2009 with a balanced squad, positionally.
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Trade Tex to Cincy for Ryan Freel!
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Tex, Chuck James, Jerome Gamble for CoJack and Owings
Lil’Bridge, Jones, Teheran, Matt Young for Bay
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What you heard from your Pirates’ source makes a heck of a lot more sense than the notion that — if they wanted to move Bay — they would turn down a package the caliber of Jones, Lillibridge and a couple of other prospects.
That’s a nice return for Bay, providing two guys who could be in your lineup immediately and two others who may not be far behind. Jones is no Bay, but Lillibridge could be a big improvement over Wilson, and for much less money all told.
By Shaun
July 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
brent a., I think the Braves will find a “real” firstbaseman if and when they part ways with Tex, whether it be Tracy or Kotchman or Loney (or someone else).
Another thing that makes looking at Salty a slim possibility, in my mind, is the Braves have always put a premium on at least adequate defense (except when they were absolutely shoved against the wall like last season when Thorman was horrible).
So I suspect they’ll go for an average-hitting, good glove at first over someone with decent offensive potential and a poor glove.
If Salty had the potential to put up numbers like the top 5-10 firstbasemen in the league, I think they would look into it, even if his defense wasn’t that good.
By sri
July 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Since a two-month rental of Tex is not likely to get us Connor Jackson, who else would you folks be willing to part with? I would rather part with another prospect for Connor instead of getting back Chad Tracy for Tex. Would Tex/Morton or Tex/Rohrbough be too much to give up for Connor Jackson and another prospect?
By champ
July 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Damn, that Sal Fasano trade to the Indians is really coming back to bite us in A$$ now…
By Catfish
July 28, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
The better option may be the two draft picks and the use of Tex for the rest of the year. Most of the deals mentioned here is not enough to justify a trade.
By Chad
July 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
How’s this one sound?
Tex, Ohman, Kotsay, Infante
FOR
Tracy, Owings, Chris Young
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Timmy and Chipper to DL, Braves call up some other dudes.
JEB—
Yes, it would be a miracle. Keepin’ up the prayers…
By Supes
July 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
DOB
I hope we don’t give a king’s ransom for Jason Bay, and that your source is correct. It’s for the best.
As far as trading TEX to D’Backs…hell no I don’t want Chad Tracy on this team. What are we going to do with another linedrive hitter with little power that can’t hit lefties well?
If they trade him to the D’Backs, I’d rather get some high level prospects, forget Tracy. Just get minor leaguers. At least you’ll have a chance one of them turns into an all star player, b/c D’Backs draft well and look at all the young players they’ve got going now? Upton, Stephen Drew, Connor Jackson, Young, etc. If the Braves can cash in on one or two prospects of that caliber and trade TEX so be it…but don’t bring in the RH version of Kelly Johnson at the plate and tell me he’s an equal value replacement for TEX.
TEX is a power hitter with a gold glove, yes I know about the contract deal, but looking at players alone, worth much more than Chad Tracey (who’s also been injuried somewhat).
Worst case scenario, don’t deal TEX unless you get a good deal. Take your chances in the off-season. If he walks take the the 1st round draft picks! It’s not rocket science.
Braves will have a chance to sign FA this off-season, and they are 2-3 years away with their current group of impact minor leagues when they will be ready to step up and contribute.
Make this a 2 year rebuilding process if you have to, but don’t trade TEX for Tracey and some B level prospect. Not equal value.
By CKDawg65
July 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Send Tex to Oz for some heart. This team is the most frustrating team I have ever pulled for in that they CANNOT make plays in close games to win them (pitching, fielding, or hitting). Blame it on injuries all you want, but there is something just not right in that clubhouse.
By Train Wreck Bystander
July 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
If we aren’t going to get Conor Jackson (out of the choices in the AJC story), then I say take the draft choices and don’t move Tex at all.
By Sell now
July 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
sri
Do whatever you have to do to get Jarrod Parker away from Arizona. He alone is better than two draft picks in this upcoming draft.
Tracy, Parker and Parra for Tex.
From the Angels?
Morales, Adenhart and Walden.
Either deal should be welcomed by any intelligent Brave fan.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
The weird thing is that braves.com says that Jeff Bennett is a catcher.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
“We’d obviously like to win these games anyway,” Teixeira said. “But I have a little extra incentive, because I’d like to stay. I realize that things are going to happen in this game that are out of your control. And over the next two months, a lot of things are going to happen that are going to be out of my control. But once I get to free agency, that’s when I get to start making the calls.”*
I’m not going to go too far but this strikes me as Tex wanting to stay in Atlanta long term….It just does because what player would say they don’t want to be traded when the teams he could go to are basically already in the post-season. I don’t expect him to say he WANTS to be traded, but alteast the…it’s business and such….but this strikes me as odd that he’d say it, considering people are bent on him leaving due to FA.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Just ran upstairs to make sure you all have seen the item on our site that I called in from clubhouse.
Anyway, Hudson AND Chipper to DL. Hudson wanted to pitch tonight, but Bobby said no way, no reason to risk it now, gonna miss couple turns. Elbow just hadn’t improved when he threw Sunday.
Reyes optioned to Richmond.
Morton (starting tonight) and Bennett both activated and Sammons brought up as expected. Sammons is catching Charlie tonight.
Campillo starting tomorrow, the Jurrjens and Hampton in last two games of the series.
By Patrick
July 28, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
DOB,
How serious is Huddy’s injury? Because the last time the Braves sent one of their starting pitchers to the DL with “forearm stiffness” he ended up having Tommy John surgery…
and what’s up with your boy Bowman making up rumors?!?!
By Catfish
July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Conor Jackson is a problem defensively. Chad Tracy can’t hit LH pitchers. The Angels do not appear to be interested. James Loney alone is not enough, but Loney and Kemp is interesting…but the Dodgers are not going to do that. So, maybe we should just keep Tex for now and take our chances.
By ncscoots
July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
I can forgive the Braves for having an off year, happens to every team. What’s harder to forgive is that they have now forced upon the blog an extra two-plus months of moronic trade blather and nitwit next-year-itis. The offseason is bad enough for that kind of tripe, but it’s at least sufferable then. Starting it in July is probably a little more than sane men should have to bear.
Hopefully, Wren will soon do whatever it is he’s going to do. Then the blog can move on to crucifying him for whatever that was (since there’s little chance his moves will meet with the approval of most here, Wren having a brain and all).
By Greg in TN
July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Afternoon denizens…
The time is ticking down until the non-waiver trade deadline and all that is left now is to sit Tex out in the display window and wait to see if a deal can be made. The fly in the soup this go-around is that there are very few contenders out there that has a strong need at 1B. I really don’t see the Angels of the Pacific giving Kotchman up, ditto with the Snakes and Conor Jackson. If I had my druthers, I’d prefer Jackson, but Tracy’s homer numbers don’t look too bad when looking back earlier in his career (27 in 2005 being the high water mark). I don’t see any realistic scenario where the Dodgers trade Loney.
This team needs power desperately at a corner outfield position and at the first sack, and some guys to learn to hit behind the runner. Francoeur took a flying leap backwards this year in power and average and hasn’t learned the fine art of situational hitting. I think it’s these things along with Tex’s slow start that have torpedoed hopes on Planet Braves for 2008. Tex has guaranteed that Chipper has gotten some great pitches to hit the first half of the season and Hoss has certainly made the most of it, so if Tex leaves either via free agency or by trade, the Braves will have to address the four hole once again and get someone that can drive in runs, hit for power and provide protection for the Offensive Assassin.
It was nice to see Hampton out on the mound on Saturday before the lethal combination of a tired bully and the wiffleball stadium that the Phillies play their home games in conspired against us. Sunday’s action took a turn for the worse when BMac had to leave after the second of two collisions took their toll.
I didn’t see Utley’s play; however I have no question that the Victorino play was not a dirty play. To me, looking at the replays after seeing it live, Victorino didn’t have time to adjust to where BMac was standing after receiving the throw from Francoeur. Those things will happen, however I can’t speak to Utley’s play, and with more games with the Phils on the schedule, we might not have heard the last of yesterday’s actions.
I believe a tip of the cap to the Phillies fans are in order for their ovation for BMac as he left the game yesterday. Definitely a classy move IMO, can’t criticize them for what they do on the bad side without giving them their due for times like yesterday.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
who the HECK is going to pitch tomorrow?
By geauxbraves2000
July 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Players currently on DL or spent time their this season (to name a few):
SP Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, RP Moylan, Soriano, Gonzalez, OF Kotsay, Diaz, IF C Jones, Escobar (can’t remember if DL’ed or just missed time), Prado.
Hurting: C McCann
Couple all of that with a RF who is totally lost this season, a backup catcher not hitting worth a lick, and with a 1st baseman who didn’t do anything in April & May, and there’s no wonder why this season went the way it did.
IMO this is just too much for one team to overcome. Make a couple of good deadline deals (Tex, Kotsay perhaps, but sure hate to lose Ohman), have a great offseason and watch out 2009.
Geaux Braves!!
By Mr J
July 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
If the Braves trade away Tex and do not also trade for established players to immediately make up his production (the much discussed “buyers and sellers” scenario), then they might be wise to put McCann on the DL. Why? That way they can bring Sammons up for two weeks, play him nearly every day, and maybe get a good feel for his ability and readiness.
If Sammons looks good, then maybe he’s our catcher next year, and McCann plays first. That keeps McCann’s bat in the lineup and prolongs his career. If he’s got the Jones to catch, let him be the back-up catcher every 5th day.
McCann is a good defensive catcher, but not a great one. But without his offense the Braves are sunk, as we are about to find out.
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
When Bobby Cox says “no reason to risk it now”, it sounds like the Braves brass have officially reached selling mode!
By Chad
July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I’m I correct in thinking that if the Braves trade Tex they are actually trading Tex and 2 first round draft picks for whomever?
By BamaBravesFan
July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
*By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
who the HECK is going to pitch tomorrow? *
I would guess Campillio
By Ron Roberts
July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
TheCutMan is right; this organization, on the whole, needs to take a hard look at itself and what its goals are.
Either we’re trying to put together one more loaded squad to “win one for Bobby, Chipper and Smoltize” or we’re looking long-term.
It’s as if we’ve tried to do a “little” of both the past few years, and to me, it’s akin to upgrading an old battleship with new pieces, but there’s evidence of patchwork throughout the hull.
True, we’re a “younger” roster, but we’re obviously not battle-ready. I mean, given Smoltz’s aches and pains the past few years, Huddy’s old back issues, Kotsay’s past-and-current aches and pains, Chipper’s recurring injuries, Hampton’s recurring bad luck, Gonzo’s or Soriano’s issues (we weren’t exactly ignorant to that fact before we traded for either of ‘em), and Glavine’s… well, Glavine’s age… did this organization really think we were going to be healthy enough to withstand the competition and some, if not all of these setbacks?
I haven’t even mentioned Francoeur’s eyesight regression or Matt Diaz being out.
My point is, somewhere, somehow, this organization lost its focus. Is it our player development? Is it scouting? Is it Cox? (I don’t think it is, but it’s worth asking if a new way of thinking needs to come into thinking).
I hear folks (myself included) say “if Bobby had the full assemblage, we’d be running away with this division.” It’s probably true, but what manager gets that luxury, any season?
We needed to adapt, and I’m not sure we did. We didn’t use the bullpen correctly Saturday or Sunday, frankly, because that wouldn’t have been “by the book” methodology.
I think there’s a place for Bobby with this organization as long as he wants it - I’m just not sure it’s in the dugout anymore. A player who’d played for him, and knows his way works, but is willing to do things a little outside-the-box would be perfect.
Is it too much to consider Chipper Jones as a player-manager? Hell, is that even allowed anymore?
By Truth Will Set You Free
July 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Dear David, Let’s try this tact. Let’s assume you were not the Braves beat writer, but were involved in MLB. Under that scenario how would you react to another writer having continued this “Seller or Buyer” fiasco for this long?? I’m betting—and you appear to be an honest man—that you would have had a lot of respect for someone writing “Braves fans, The Wild Card is coming out of the Central so we MUST win the Division. The only chance to win the Division is if the Mets, Phillies and Marlins play barely above.500, AND even if that happens the Braves must play at about a .620 clip. Now since we have seen NO evidence that Braves are capable of playing .620 for 58 games that it is time to make the best possible deal for Texeira because we’re not getting back in this. Only way we don’t trade him is if enough isn’t being offered and Braves prefer the 2 picks next year”
Now REALLY David, Isn’t this how you REALLY feel?? We all trust you here to be honest, let’s hear it. Thank You in advance.
By Chad
July 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
That’s assuming that the team we trade with can’t sign him.
By Einstein
July 28, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Dear Braves Fans and Braves apologists… It won’t matter who we trade for or give up or receive, until we have new, progressive thinking with our manager/coaches. Bobby was a great manager with Maddox. Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz in their prime. He became a “better than average” manager as they grew older and Chipper began to break down. Now, with rookies, has-beens, and a few over the hills, he is just an average manager. Draw your own conclusions. I say we trade Tex, Frenchy, Boyer, Ring, Corky, Kotay, Pendleton, McDowell, and Manny I’llcostyou for Ned Yost. That’s how you build a team..start from the top down.
By alan from Atlanta GA.
July 28, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
So Reyes is finally back in AAA, where he obviously belongs to all except BC. When is Ring and Boyer going to go too? When is BC going to go? When is TP and RMc going to go? Jones and Hudson out on DL. Who’s next? D’ya notice Hampton looked like a frightened minor league pitcher the other day? Is Frank Wrenn going to last long? This is probably the worst team I’ve seen since the 1962 Mets. At least Marvelous Marv Thronberry was alway around for a laugh. These are the things bouncing around my mind right now. Things could be worse, I could have serious thoughts about the braves such as BOYCOTT THE BRAVES.
By Hammy the Brave
July 28, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I am sorry it has come time for the realization that the Braves’ and FW need to rebuild, they can’t just retool anymore, they have too many holes! Our rebuilding process should have started in 2006, when we knew we’d have a losing season, and we knew we wouldn’t resign Andruw. This trade should have been the course taken because it would have been the best baseball decision, and IMO, too much pride may have stood in the way, as well as concern for fan turnout/fan reaction.
My biggest frustration with this was, in light of Andruw signing with LA and his agent’s office being near there, I believe he could have been dealt there. I wonder if JS couldn’t have gotten Billingsly, the pitcher, and Kemp, the OF, at that time, before Andruw devolved into his present morass, and before those 2 players contributed much at the ML level. This would have started our rebuilding process much earlier, and given us more starting pitching and OF depth, if my trade scenario was plausible.
Jumping to the present and the trade Tex and/or Ohman scenario’s, don’t you think combining them in a trade would certainly enhance the value we’d get in return? While I’m not a baseball insider, or a member of the press, I find it hard to believe we can’t get a fairly solid return for that combo, much better than high draft picks(don’t fans realize the Braves usually draft high schoolers, early in the draft, and how long that would take to rebuild the team)?
I do agree with you that Boston probably isn’t interested in Tex, but how come nobody mentions the White Sox, along with the Angels, Dodgers and Diamondbacks?. My main point being there is some potential competition to trade for Tex/Ohman, especially between the Dodgers and Diamondbacks, in such a weak division, don’t you think?
In that type of environment, why couldn’t we get Connor Jackson, a pitching prospect(Scherzer or the guy in A ball?), plus a 3rd player? Or with LA, why not get Loney, Kemp, and a lefty pitching prospect, not named Kershaw?
Finally, I do hope we can get Bay from Pittsburgh, but why don’t we fill another hole and get Tom Gorzelanny thrown in too, as a reclamation project, in AAA? We shouldn’t automatically assume we’d get “taken to the cleaners” in a deal with Pittsburgh. From what Buster Onley has said several times on Baseball Tonight, numerous gm’s in baseball have grumbled that Pittsburgh didn’t get good return from the Yankees on their supposedly great Nady/Marte package.
I’m throwing this out for discussion,
By hem o'roid
July 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
DEB MAVRICK—You’re nothing But a sucka$$ new york bucket of crap. Go crawl back in your big apple sewer and eat its contents, you bi@$^
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
DOB
Any chance the Braves us someone other than Reyes or James for Huddy’s starts. Which I think he’ll miss only 2.
Might as well see what others have like Hanson or Todd Redmond….also Perry is on the 40 man roster so that would be an easy move.
By alan from Atlanta GA.
July 28, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Another thought. At least we have Corky Miller to fill in for McCann,whew almost had Bryan Pena instead. Who is Sammons?
By JEB
July 28, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Interested Observer seems to have a lot of inside info!! Even quotes that we don’t even get from DOB. Who is this masked man??
By BravesinTN
July 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Any chance on the Braves making two separate trades? I think trading Ohman to the Brewers for their AAA 1B - Brad Nelson - would work great! Nelson is hitting .300 with 13 HRs and 50+ RBI’s for the Nashville team. And the Brewers need more ‘pen help. Then, trade Texeira for OF power/pitching prospects…
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Is it too much to consider Chipper Jones as a player-manager? Hell, is that even allowed anymore?
How about Glavine….we went on a road trip and the only game we one was the one in MIL when he managed for awhile.
Or Smoltz….
if the season is over or not they need to do the whole hat pick for lineups to see if one player is better in a spot you wouldn’t expect….heck the only year Andruw touched .300 was when he hit in front of Chipper.
By Jeff R
July 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
If management moves Super Tex, it won’t be for an established major leaguer but a couple of near-ready quaility prospects, at least. Ohman will likely command a solid prospect as well. Let’s not forget that Wren did cut a excellent deal with Detroit over the winter.
And as much as everyone would like a first baseman in return for Super Tex, I’d argue that Wren needs to find the best available talent. Getting a top third base prospect or pitching prospects (or some combination) would be welcome. There’s always the winter, when management could address the hole at first.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Wow…I can’t believe Ryan Lavner made such a stupid mistake. Now everything on mlb.com/braves.com says Jeff Bennett is a catcher….even in the transaction notes, it says they called “catcher” jeff bennett up from Myrtle Beach. Gary Bennett is the catcher, who is not even in the Braves organization….how do you get gary mixed up with the name jeff?
By Supes
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Glad to see that common sense is prevailing with Frank Wren and Bobby (for once).
Putting Huddy and Chipper on the DL was the right move. No need to get them injuried any further at this point, the Braves are NOT contending.
The white flag has been raised at the TED.
Surprised to see Jo-Jo was optioned to AAA to make room for Bennett and not Julian Tavarez? I think Jo-Jo has shown he can be serviceable and on the other hand…Tavarez has shown nothing of value.
Any news on wheather the Braves plan on putting BMac on the DL as well? It would be for the best if they did, as concussions can take a while to fully recover from. Just ask Ryan Church (I’m not sure if Mac’s is as severe, but just saying).
In that case, they could bring up another player from AA as well to take up Mac’s spot.
By JB
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts
What back issue of Hudson’s are you referring to? He’s had sore arm issues, but not for about 2 years until just last week.
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
*I suppose your argument is that Saltalamacchia could be an above average major league firstbaseman and his position had virtually no bearing on the Braves giving him up. * Shaun
Shaun, That wasn’t my argument at all.
Again, thanks for making my sure you got your points in, and not reading what I said.
Go Braves!
By joe
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Cut Corky Miller and send Francouer to Mississippi for the rest of the year. He has an 0-2 count 90% of the time and still looks like a rookie at the plate.
Time to clean house, trade Tex and get what you can for him, give Norton a shot at 1B for the rest of this year to see what he can do and give Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton and now Hudson time to save up for next season…this year is over!!!
By Todd A
July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
I know it sounds simplistic, but this team hasn’t been the same since Kelly Johnson pulled an Adam LaRoche and dropped that pop up (that would have given the Braves a win in the opening game of the series) against the Phillies in late May. The Braves were 5 games over .500 at that point, and playing very good baseball. Getting rid of guys like him and Frenchy should be the first order of business for Wren this off season.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Well, I think it’s official now. With Chipper and Hudson on the DL this team is tossing up the white flag. I know Wren and Cox would still publicly state that they aim to win this season, and I’m glad they keep that face on, but it isn’t going to happen. I’m glad to see JoJo go down and work. He’s been pretty bad for some time. Perhaps this team can acquire another good starter for next year. I know a month ago everyone was settled on only adding a bat and a reliever but this team needs a sturdy rotation going forward. A reliable rotation. A rotation that can produce without missing significant time. It was the point made in the off season. It was the reason given to signing Glavine… The phrase “innings eater” was tossed around a lot. The actuality is none of that occurred. It’s still important.
There are a lot of holes on this team and not all of them can be filled at the deadline. I’m sure they have a plan, and I hope it’s a better plan than the one they had for this season.
By Truth Will Set You Free
July 28, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
NOW with Hudson AND Jones on DL, McCann looking at a possible Post Concussion Syndrome problem—see Ryan Church—I’m going to go out on the limb and say that other teams JUST MIGHT think they have us over the barrel. I know it takes a lot of guts to say that, but what the heck someone has to step up and be bold.
HOPEFULLY we have heard and read the last of that seemingly perpetual Buy or Sell debate. Let’s just be glad the Nationals are in the East because it will be disheartening enough to finish behind a team with a payroll equal to Manny’s salary.
Boy, Have we slipped!!! AND please, get Hampton’s sorry carcass out of the rotation and let’s give some guys a chance who will be here next year. Tommy, that means you too. Shut It Down For Good!!
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
JEB
Again, I’m flattered, but you give me way too much credit. Actually, I was quoting DOB’s post more so than BC directly.
By David O’Brien
July 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Just ran upstairs to make sure you all have seen the item on our site that I called in from clubhouse.
Anyway, Hudson AND Chipper to DL. Hudson wanted to pitch tonight, but Bobby said no way, no reason to risk it now, gonna miss couple turns. Elbow just hadn’t improved when he threw Sunday.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Bravos2249, don’t know if you saw end of my 4:28 comment, but I said there that Campillo starts tomorrow.
Rest of series has Jurrjens on Wednesday and Hudson on Thursday.
By Ron Roberts
July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
JB… Tim had back problems the season before we got him. That’s not his recent concerns, no; just history worth stewing over, on the whole.
By Jeff R
July 28, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Speaking of holes… Is Kelly Johnson back next season? Sorry, I realize a lot of fans liked this guy’s bat last year and we’re willing to let his average - at best - fielding slide. But the guy isn’t a strong defender. One of the hallmarks of the 90s Braves was strong up-the-middle defense. Johnson is a weak link.
By Paul Hamilton
July 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
At this point unless someone is willing to trade you a really good player for Tex, you keep him and take the first and probably second round pick for him. This season is for the most part over. With Tex, Glavine, and Hampton coming off the books at seasons end, you can easily jump into the free agency market and trade market to address your needs after the season.
Why is everyone so intent on giving away Tex for some average quality players?? They gave up way too much for him to get rid of him for only an average deal. Don’t be a fool Wren! The ball is still in your court.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Supes: No, not putting Mac on DL. Bobby just said again while ago that it should only be a few days for McCann….
By the way, I’ve seen two different lineups for tonight, one with Norton hitting cleanup and one with Kotsay in that spot.
Francoeur’s seventh, Sammons eighth.
OK, going back down to the field.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
He’s had sore arm issues, but not for about 2 years until just last week
Also oblique strains I think… I don’t recall back either but I do remember something about oblique strains.
By JEB
July 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
braves2249 Have you been nippin’ on the sauce?? When did Glavine ever coach a game??
Also, Andruw NEVER batted in front of Chipper in the lineup - NEVER!! He was in the four hole - and the was as high as he ever hit in the batting order - ever!
By Supes
July 28, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
**Jeff R,
Speaking of holes… Is Kelly Johnson back next season? Sorry, I realize a lot of fans liked this guy’s bat last year and we’re willing to let his average - at best - fielding slide. But the guy isn’t a strong defender. One of the hallmarks of the 90s Braves was strong up-the-middle defense. Johnson is a weak link**
I hear you, but who would you suggest?
Don’t just say the guy is a weak link etc, give us a solution.
They have Lillbridge and Prado (who I guess can both be coverted to play 2B, although they normally play on the other side of the diamond)
Both are UNPROVEN at best as far as long term solution at 2B if you trade Kelly.
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
As many are saying on the blog (I really don’t know why I am repeating, except out of boredom today), I would love to see us DL McCann so that there is not temptation to bring him back to early. We need his bat, but I think we are done for the season at this point. Huddy, Chipper out…
I would love to see a few deals for players who will not be back. Can we get anything for Kotsay? Ohman is a real chip. As for Tex, just get the best package possible, even if we have to add to get it. Our expectations should not be too great, as we are not in a strong position with him.
Bay would be a nice addition for next year, but NO way would I include Lillibridge in a trade for him. Lilly is going to be a decent to above average major leaguer for 10 years (The Swammy has spoken!).
We should go with our AAA guys for the rest of the year, to see what they have (Perry, BJones, Thorman, Lillibridge, Chuckie, etc.) Maybe one or two guys from Mississippi: Schafer and Redmond.
Watch JJJ closely the rest of the year. Is Campillo a flash in the pan, or the real thing? If there are doubts about his future, then sell high. Would someone take a flier on Soriano for a prospect or two? I have NO confidence in him.
Enough from the intermountain west peanut gallery for now.
(Tex for Carl Crawford???) Can we recreate some rumors from last winter?
By 57Braves
July 28, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the rest of the NL East would allow us a “do over” for this disaster of an ‘08 season? One disaster after another.
By Aaron
July 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I say the Braves should go after Casey Kotchman. He’s just 25 years old. His salary is only $1.45 million. And he won’t be a free agent until after the 2011 season. He is the Angels team leader in batting average, hitting .288 with 10 HR and 50 RBIs. This would make alot of sense to me. And I guarantee you that the Braves would do remarkebly better right away!
By Aaron
July 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I say the Braves should go after Casey Kotchman. He’s just 25 years old. His salary is only $1.45 million. And he won’t be a free agent until after the 2011 season. He is the Angels team leader in batting average, hitting .288 with 10 HR and 50 RBIs. This would make alot of sense to me. And I guarantee you that the Braves would do remarkebly better right away!
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
Hudson on Thursday? Your last line said Hampton. The mayhem! Worlds are colliding!
By Ben
July 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Is there anything that hasn’t gone wrong that should have gone wrong?
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Let’s get real. Other teams GM’s are not operating in a vacuum. They have known for weeks that they have the Braves over a barrell. The only leverage the Braves would have is that they really don’t have to trade these players. Maybe we have some leverage on Ohman, but minimal on Tex. Especially since there are no big fits for his services, only some desire to add his bat.
Let’s get what we can, so long as it’s better than the 2 draft choices.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Norton or Kotsay hitting cleanup … that sound you hear is a white flag waving and a “SELL” sign being posted.
By Birmingham
July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
We have so many holes at this point, next year is going to be very interesting.
1) Replacement for Tex? 2) Trade Kelly? 3) Who plays LF and CF? 4) Who makes up the starting rotation if Smoltz, Glavine & Hampton are gone?
By Aaron
July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe Bobby Cox yesterday in the post game interview! This is basically what he said; ‘All we got to do is take 2 out of 3. We don’t need to sweep anybody.’ Now tell me, WHAT KIND OF FOOLISHNESS IS THAT! Makes me want to puke.
By Aaron
July 28, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe Bobby Cox yesterday in the post game interview! This is basically what he said; ‘All we got to do is take 2 out of 3. We don’t need to sweep anybody.’ Now tell me, WHAT KIND OF FOOLISHNESS IS THAT! Makes me want to puke.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Norton and Kotsay hitting cleanup? Does that mean Tex is on his way out of ATL? Or is he hitting third?
By Threadkiller
July 28, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB; Any chance you can get a quote out of Tex about his career plans? I think it would be good to know from the horses mouth that his first priority are the Braves. Thanks
By Mr J
July 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
JEB,
I’m preety sure Andruw batted 2nd one year. I can’t remember which year off the top of my head, but it was early on in his career, maybe ‘98 or ‘99. I also recall it was that year that he hit .300 and stole some bases. He was a thinner, faster guy back then.
By brian
July 28, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Andy K - don’t know if you read DOB’s comments on how the Braves are not going to trade away any of their top pitching prospects. No way will they trade Teheran who is considered by many to have one of the best arms in the minors.
Hanson should also be off limits. Hanson and Morton could be the start of a special rotation. If JoJo and/or Chuck James could put it together we would have a lot of solid young pitchers with prospects with higher ceilings coming along as well
By Mike
July 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah
Let’s get what we can, so long as it’s better than the 2 draft choices.
But what is better than two draft choices? Are we talking about two stud prospects? 1 stud and a “b” level prospect? I think the idea the Braves should get a first baseman for next year is a bit absurd. Gte the best prospects you can get and move on.
Enough with Kotchman, Jackson and Loney. They aren’t going anywhere.
Focus on prospects like Parker, Parra, Laroche, Hu, Adenhart, and Walden…..
By Mark T.
July 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Assuming we are going to lose Tex trade or to FA, why dont we attempt to trade KJ with couple of prospects for Brandon Phillips? If we lose him to trade then we can use one of those prospects as trade bait. The Reds named their 5 untouchables and he is one of them. He is rather on the cheap side financially and we’d get a potential gold glove, 5 tool 2nd baseman, who hits in the cleanup spot.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Hudson to the DL too, no this just got way out of line. Man the chance for the braves to win this year is minimal. Without Hudson, chipper, and Mac. Who is the trainer for the Braves? Jeff Porter? What does he have to say for all these injuries.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
I prefer Rocco Baldelli.
By Dan in NJ
July 28, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Anyone hear Chris Russo today on 660 the fan. He ripped into the pirates for trading the “best” lefty specialist and Nady, for 4 nobodys. That they(yanks) didn’t even give up Kennedy in the deal. And said thats why the pirates are the pirates. LOL. So true. And Thats why like DOB said, the deal for Bay was most likely never true. Can’t see pirates ownership turning ANYTHING down. But, if it was true, B.Jones, Lil’man, and two others wouldve been a good trade. esp.knowing there is no room for Lil’man in Atlanta. And BJones doesnt seem to have the power needed in the OF. Knowing we have Frenchy in right and who knows in CF next year, BUT most likely CF will not have much power either if they go within the farm. So, Bay would be nice to have for next season.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Jeb
You need to look up your stuff…. 2000 batting orders
and Druw hit .300 that year
And Glavine did manage part of the ONLY game we won when we went to MIL/CIN….he was the one who called for the hit and run….which Bobby hardly does.
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Mike Agreed 100%. Only way we get Loney/Jackson/Kotchman is by adding some other valuable piece(s). And then, it is still a long-shot.
By Catfish
July 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Aaron, I like your suggestion of Kotchman for Tex but with a little tweak. Why not go after Juan Rivera and Kotchman. Ohman might have to be included as well to make it work.
Juan Rivera could fill the LF slot, but he is a free agent at the end of the year. However, he should be resignable at a reasonable salary.
And of course Kotchman can cover first until 2011, or until Freddy Freeman is ready.
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Long story short, this was the year when Tex needed to buck his trend of slow starts. But it didn’t happen. Who knows if a huge first month from him could have made the difference for the Braves? But I can assure you, it sure would have made things a bit more interesting. DOB
I can understand that sentiment, we hit and pitched so well over the course of those two months, that we can only think about what might have been if Tex had also been in on that party.
But it just seems like there is a connotation (and I’m sure you don’t believe this DOB, but I think that some people do) that we are in 4th now because Tex didn’t OPS 900 in April and May.
Consider this, Tex led the team in RBI over those two months.
You guys talk about Tex not being clutch or hitting with RISP. Well, in March and April he hit .308 with RISP with an OPS of .861. And in May he hit .323 with RISP and an OPS of 1.057. (Again, I still believe these numbers even out in the long run, but since you guys love AVG with RISP so much, I thought you’d get a kick out of that).
He certainly could have been better and we probably would have won some more games. And maybe if Mac had hit better than .071 with RISP in March and April, he would have knocked in more than 9 runs. That might have helped us do better than 12-15.
Every single person on this team has had big cold streaks except for Chipper (who’s problems have more to do with just missing time).
Even Mac has had a stretch like that, he went .244/.320/.456, a .776 OPS with just 13 RBI in June, and in that month we went 11-16.
So I think that implying that Tex was a let down just because he did exactly what he has always done (start cold) is kind of hypocritical when we ignore similar difficulties from other players.
Besides, I don’t think that going 29-27 through May is what killed this team.
By Rob
July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
**Tex for One of the Following Options:
1) Connor Jackson; OR
2) Top pitching prospect Jarrod Parker and one of Max Scherzer or Gerado Parra, plus one other lower level prospect with some upside.**
For Jackson, I’d gladly pick up the remainder of Tex’s salary in 2008 if I’m the Braves. For the other package, I would pick up salary but only if its 2 good prospects in addition to Parker.
Parker is a STUD. I’d MUCH, MUCH rather have him than Chad freaking Tracy.
* Chad Tracy is NOT a difference maker. He is a mediocre league average (or ever so slightly better than league average) for his position and its not like he’s making the league minimum either.*
SAY NO TO CHAD TRACY. If its Tracy and Owings (he of the 5.40 ERA and almost a hit per inning allowed), then forget it. Keep Tex and collect the draft picks.
By Lew
July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-Not so sure they’re running the white flag up the pole, but I’d say the graffiti is on the wall, for sure. With no Hudson, Chipper and McCann for a week or more, as the individual case may be, I’m not seeing a huge surge towards respectability, much less making any kind of serious run.
It’s definitely time to get what we can for Tex. I’d love to sign Ohman to a longer term contract, but that doesn’t seem the way the Braves tend to operate, so I’d trade him and get some more of what we can get.
Too many holes in the roster (it’s no longer a starting lineup issue) to deal with it all this time out. There should be (conservatively) $45 mil with Tex’s departure to spend over the winter-more if Liberty Media decides to keep their promises and “spend many millions more”.-though I’m not quite as positive about that happening as I was when the platitude was uttered last winter.
By BravesinTN
July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
This is almost like the excitement of the NFL draft when your team has a high pick. you’re embarassed and dissapointed to have a lousy team and pick high (trade players away)…but excited to see who we get that will help us in the future. I need to see Chipper get one more realistic shot at the postseason….
By Josh
July 28, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Jeff Porter totally screwed the pooch on the McCann/Victarino collision. He should have had Brian doing 5 sets of 15 skull stretches every other day to prevent this. It’s bush league I tell ya.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know they didn’t want Huddy pitching but why put him on the DL?
They didn’t bring up someone due to his move, did they?
By BlackberryCobbler
July 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
DOB— If there are no good 1B out there, can’t we move Chipper to 1B and deal for a 3B?
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
BravesfaninRockies
Rocco is probably untouchable!
By BlackberryCobbler
July 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
The Braves 2-3 years ago started making the decisions to build the future with old, recycled, injured/repaired, other teams cast-offs type players— Kotsay, Glavine, Hampton, Smoltz, and others.
Yes, this year has been a dissappointment but the Braves brought this largely on themselves. When you come into the season and you’re depending on Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton to anchor the pitching staff, hope that Chipper stays healthy, and hope Kotsay’s back will be ok……… well, your in a very risky what-if situation from the get go.
The Braves got bit in the butt and have no one to blame but themseleves.
By rammerjammer
July 28, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
The Goche,
I’m with you, man. Tex is the scapegoat because he was the missing piece of the championship puzzle…and then the other pieces fell apart! Not his fault…he did his part. I wish him good luck. He’s a very good player and he’s earned the right to play for a very good team.
By Drummerdad
July 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
DOB, While you’re busy running to and fro about Turner Field let me ask you something. Is Adam Laroche’s contract with the Pirates finished after this year, and, what are the chances of the Braves trying to resign him? Inquiring drummers want to know.
By tiger7_88
July 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
DOB said: McCann’s concussion — on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday
I beg to disagree, Mr. O’Brien. McCann was NOT blocking the plate… you can see in the replays and pictures of the play that he is standing on the first base side of the plate when he took the ball on the short hop… and when he turned to make the tag, instead of a player sliding to a plate that he had plenty of room to slide to, he found a freight train barreling down the baseline towards his head. If the plate is not being blocked, the catcher SHOULD NOT have to worry about his head being taken off. Erstad taking out Estrada (who wasn’t blocking the plate then) a few years ago was a play as dirty as the day is long… and so was Victorinos. A baserunner has every right to pound his way through a defender who is blocking his way in the baseline… he has NO right to take out a defender who he could otherwise (and more safely) avoid and who is NOT blocking his access to the base/plate.
Let’s see… Uttley tried to elbow McCann in the head earlier in the game and almost succeeded… then Victorino goes out of the baseline to take out McCann when he could just as easily have slid (slad? slud?).
Suuuuuuuuuuure it wasn’t a dirty play, DOB. You keep tellin’ yourself that.
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Tex to the Angels The more I think about a trade to the Angels, it would have to include either Kotchman or one of their outfielders (Matthews, Rivera or Anderson, as they will not deal Hunter or Vlad).
The Angels would not have enough room to fit Tex into their lineup, without sitting down some high salaried player.
So, with that thought, it would almost have to be Kotchman or Rivera. Even Rivera would not automatically open up a slot for Tex. So, to do a deal with the Angels, we would have to include another piece that was highly valued by the Angels. Relief Pitching? Ohman?? Not sure if that flies.
By Nelson
July 28, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
For me this is the best of the blog: Send Jeff F. down until he becomes a prospect again. And in my modest opinion: Francuer, Kelly and Kotsay, they are all mediocre players, we are not going back to the play-offs with such kind of players. Totally rebuilt this team or bring real baseball players to inject hot blood to this dying team. The Marlins did it both ways two times to win the world series and now with 100% young players!!!
By THIS JUST IN
July 28, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Yahoo! Sports’ Steve Henson reports that negotiations between the Diamondbacks and Braves are “pretty far along.”
Henson believes the Braves are asking for either Conor Jackson or Chad Tracy, plus a prospect. Jackson is likely off the table, but if the Braves are willing to accept Tracy as the centerpiece of a deal, then the Diamondbacks have to seriously consider making the trade. Still, it could come down to the prospect. The Diamondbacks don’t have much to offer besides Max Scherzer and Jarrod Parker after giving up a big portion of their system for Dan Haren, and it’s doubtful that they’d part with either right-hander.
Parker or Scherzer HAVE to be in the deal. It is just that damn simple. If they aren’t, then the Braves brass blew it. I can’t stress that enough. And when it comes down to it, with Scherzer’s violent delivery, I’ll take Parker(just as much upside as Teheran).
By Patrick
July 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
LATEST ON TEIXEIRA
Yahoo! Sports’ Steve Henson reports that negotiations between the Diamondbacks and Braves are “pretty far along.”
Henson believes the Braves are asking for either Conor Jackson or Chad Tracy, plus a prospect. Jackson is likely off the table, but if the Braves are willing to accept Tracy as the centerpiece of a deal, then the Diamondbacks have to seriously consider making the trade. Still, it could come down to the prospect. The Diamondbacks don’t have much to offer besides Max Scherzer and Jarrod Parker after giving up a big portion of their system for Dan Haren, and it’s doubtful that they’d part with either right-hander. Source: Yahoo! Sports
By Jordan
July 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
It’s time to start looking at next year. If I were the Braves GM, here’s what I would do:
Go out and get Sabathia. We have the money to sign one big timer. Smoltz will not be making his $12 mill next year. Probably more like $7 million. Let’s get back to our roots. PITCHING & DEFENSE.
Go out and sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a one year deal. Great defender at 1st base.
The difficult part is left field. There are two routes to to. Sign Raul Ibanez to a 1 year deal, or put Gregor Blanco in left and let Jordan Schaeffer go at it. Preferably the cheaper option if Schaeffer is ready.
Imagine this rotation. 1. Smoltz 2. Sabathia 3. Hudson 4. Jurrjens 5. Campillo.
This would easily be the best rotation in the division if not the NL. This would also be an ecellent defensive team. Let’s go do it!
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Well the next few days should be fun for a change. I think we’re going to be surprised to see what Ohman brings in return. Tex? It’s hard to tell. The market isn’t that strong for him, but you never know.
There are a lot of options on the table & there should be plenty of action the next few days.
I know it probably won’t happen, but if the Braves could land Bay & Conner Jackson things would set up nicely for next season. That would two huge needs covered & both combined are not making what Tex is this season. That would leave a ton of money to really build the team up.
By cooper
July 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
We need to accept the fact that Tex is not going to net us much and if they trade him we will be horrifically disappointed with the return. As in “why didn’t we just keep him”
It will be a disappoint with staying power b/c they are not going to a 1B, a power OF bat or an arm worth mentioning in the trade.
Bay is off the table. McCann is injured. Chipper & Huddy on the DL. Yikes.
Hello AAAA lineup w/o Tex.
If they don’t want to phone in the rest of the season - never mind playoffs - they should keep Tex, offer him a deal or just arb to get the picks.
Now had Wren picked up Harden three weeks ago and then did the Nady/Marte trade this board would be having a totally different discussion.
We needed another starter, pen arm and a bat. We watched as other teams made those moves while signed Tavarez waiting for Bay to free up 3 days before the deadline? Are you kidding me?
Harden is locked up for a year as is Nady, Marte more so even if Tex walked you would have a stronger team going into the winter meetings than we will have this year.
Wren’s error in judgment in terms of replacing Smoltz and Glavine with rookies and relying on a pen that is stocked with DFA candidates is why hope is lost.
Poor chess playing on Wren’s part - he took a gamble on pitching, passed on Nady/Marte and this is called helping his team win.
Instead of the above he focused on protecting Jeff’s ego and praying to Jobu that his rag tag pitching staff (apart from Hudson, JJ, Camp, Gonzo & Ohman) would not crap the bed and picking up Gotay, Norton and Tavarez. How is this guy not fired?
As Ned Flanders would say diddly diddly dumb.
By tnbrave
July 28, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
I am a diehard braves fan, it kills me to go through the struggles of this season, but the fact of the matter is if the Braves trade Tex, they will have just set their playoff goals back another 2 years. Slow starter or not he is a franchise player on a team with a fragile backbone in Chipper Jones. No team in a division lead has a bargain impact player, or at least one who isn’t going to command a huge pay day. As long as the Braves brass keeps trying to build a contender on peanuts, you are going to continue to see what you’re seeing on a nightly basis now.
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
We need a backup catcher. Corky is a poor man’s Bruuuuuuuuuuuce Benedict, and Bruce wasn’t exactly Johnny Bench himself.
Corky, though, is like Ricky Henderson on the base-paths compared to Bruce. Lasorda once said a pregnant woman could outrun him to first. Murph used to call him “Eggs Benedict.” Shoulda called him Molasses or Sloth.
By Chop Chop
July 28, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
Goche,
Unfortunately for your point of view, Tex has been getting paid more ($12.5 million) than any other player in the lineup. Just as managers will often be unfairly blamed for their teams’ struggles, so to are high-salaried players. You know, as if high-salaried players aren’t allowed to struggle for a given period of time.
Mark Teixeira was brought in to be a savior (the view of the fans; hopefully not that of the Braves’ front office). The Braves did not trade so many top prospects for Tex without the belief that he would be the catalyst for a playoff run last season and this season. John Schuerholz’s last gasp trade did not have the desired effect.
The fact that Tex struggled (he was hitting cleanup all year; barring a slump of 2007 Andruw proportions, a player damn well ought to lead his team in RBI when he’s in the cleanup spot) early in the season the way he always has (especially in terms of power) in the past really soured a lot of fans (not necessarily familiar with Tex’s historically slow starts) who are eager to return to the Braves’ winning ways of the past.
I guess my main point here is that the stats really don’t mean a whole lot in this argument. You are not going to convince people who thought Tex would be better than this (mostly because of the hype) to accept that the guy has been everything they’d hoped he’d be. It just hasn’t worked out that way, so some fans are going to direct that frustration toward Tex. The Braves raised the expectations of fans by trading for Tex last year and, if these blogs are any kind of barometer for fan opinion, got burned by it.
By Billy
July 28, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Mac dove back towards the plate at the exact same time Victorino dove towards Mac. Victorino’s job as a baseball player is not the ball loose and score. Mac’s job is to try and get to the plater to block it and tag the runner before he scores.
They collided on a clean baseball play. Bobby said he had no problem with the play. Mac said he had no problem with the play. You amatuer baseball fans are the only one’s who don’t understand the play. Hell, you guys are probably the ones in the stands calling balk when clearly there is no balk 6 times a game.
Get a grip that was baseball played the way men play it.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah
I think any trade with the Angels (a two team trade) would have to include Kotchman. Kotchman has tremendous upside (great plate discipline, youth, line drive power, good defense). Despite the buzz about Conor Jackson, who has outstanding offensive numbers, I think that Kotchman (or Loney) fits the Braves pitching and defense style better than Jackson. In fact I might suggest that if the Braves wiggle Jackson away from Arizona that the Braves will still need to find a good 1B in the winter. Jackson won’t cut it defensively.
Someone mentioned an Ohman to Milwaukee trade earlier this afternoon. Trade would include a AAA 1B prospect. If we are looking to ‘09 (and we are), then that was an intriguing idea, I thought.
By Threadkiller
July 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
The Angels are not going to deal!! They have the best record in Baseball and a 10.5 game lead. Why would they deal??
By Lawrence
July 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Its about time now for all you little kiddies to put your bubblegum cards away and give the pc up for a few hours.I can now see the reason the Braves are so awful this year.Its the fan base! With morons like are here on this blog firing managers and hitting coaches,trading players and ripping trainers there is no reason to try and have a winning team.No one here would be happy with that!You people need to get a life.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Lew: (nodding my head, raising my fist) Amen!
I’d agree, I don’t think this team will ever officially raise a white flag, but I gotta think everyone there knows the situation whether the front office states it explicitly or not.
DL-ing the only veteran starter remaining on the team is enough of a sign for me to say the white flag has been hoisted, but I’m sure the front office will still state that they hope to win and are making moves towards winning this and next year. Just seems to be the talking point they never stray from no matter the situation.
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Hex makes alotta hay in blowins and blowouts. In tight games early in the year, he SUCKED! Stats don’t always translate into a legit gauge of a player’s effectiveness in situational terms. Big numbers in blowouts don’t mean $hit.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Shamus
Why the bashing on Bruce??? Dude was great behind the plate. And if you need confirmation ask the great Phil Niekro. Ain’t so easy catching a 65 mph knuckleball. Say all ya want about Rick Cerone and Ozzie Virgil but don’t knock the Bruce.
And you’ve actually seen Corky on the basepaths??? You’re kidding right?
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
If Bruce Benedict had a footrace with a pregnant woman, he would finish third.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
Everyone talking about last year…you do REALIZE down the stretch it was the pitching that put us in the rut of not making the post-season not Tex….everyone struggled including Huddy and Smoltz….JS traded for Dotel who pitched like 7 innings…nice physical right there!
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Billy
Well put. Amen.
By Run, Heap, Run!
July 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Welcome back, DOB … you always seem to know when its going to hit the fan and take off accordingly. : ) Smart move.
Anyway, I am very surprised about the Huddy news but damn glad to see OhNo demoted. I’m sure he’s a “great guy” who wants to do well but he just ain’t cuttin it right now.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah. Forgot Hampton was still on this team. I guess the Braves didn’t DL the only remaining vet starter on the team… it just feels that way.
By Jeff R
July 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Supes
Good point about Kelly Johnson. I don’t know what the winter market will be like (a trade, more likely). I’ve always thought that Prado was the better defender. Fans rap him for his range, but at least the balls he gets to he usually fields. Frankly, I never thought Prado had a chance to compete fairly for the position; management was bound and determined to go with Johnson.
The front office doesn’t like to sign free agents (generally), so I’d need to see the trade market post-season before I’d have a good idea.
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
From Jayson Stark: The market is officially open!
Well, it’s official. The Mark Teixeira auction is on. According to an executive of a club that spoke with the Braves’ brass Monday afternoon, they have begun informing other teams they plan to trade Teixeira this week if they get the right deal. The four teams that so far have expressed some level of interest: Diamondbacks, Rays, Red Sox, Angels.
By AZBravoFan
July 28, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Gotta have Sherzer in any deal that doesn’t involve Jackson. D’backs also have a couple interesting guys here in AAA Tucson on the corners, Josh Whitesell is hitting .312/19/76. He plays 1B. And Jamie D’Antona is second in the PCL in batting at .367 with an 1.019 OPS. He plays 3rd.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Angels view Teixeira has a major upgrade over Kotchman (as they should), and it’s definitely something that interests some officials in the organization, just don’t know if they’re willing to give up Kotchman in a package for Tex. But with the relationship that Boras has with the owner there, I’ll say again, to me that makes a lot of sense.
But it also sounds like Braves and D-Backs are talking quite a bit. Can’t see D-Backs caving on Conor Jackson, though. But we’ll see. I’d probably do it for Tracy if they threw in another real solid prospect or a good young player….
Someone above said Loney alone not enough, that Loney AND Kemp would be good. What? For a two-month rental. From Dodgers perspective, that makes zero sense unless you are sure you can re-sign Tex.
By TommyP
July 28, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Tell the D’backs “No thanks” on Tracy unless Scherzer is involved.
Honestly, if you can net a Max Scherzer for Texeira at this point, you try to make a deal work.
Bay needs to come cheaper than that “supposed” report out of Pittsburgh.
If you can’t net a whole lot for Tex, don’t deal him. We need to get a very nice piece in this deal.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
By the way, lineup: 1. Blanco, 2. Escobar, 3. Tex, 4. Kotsay, 5. Kelly J., 6. Omar, 7. Francoeur, 8. Sammons, 9. Charlie.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Threadkiller
They’d deal for October. They want to win it all.
By jed
July 28, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
god please not tracy for tex. that’s the just the type of pointless trade i dont wanta see.
read that cubs are looking for a LH CF. cubs, kotsay; kotsay, cubs.
still hope we re-sign ohman right now & keep him.
By tr
July 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
The Red Sox want to get rid of Manny, who says he’ll approve a trade to any MLB team if they refuse the options on his ‘09 ‘10 contracts.
OK, send Tex. Toss in Soriano and Frenchie. Ask for Youklis and Manny. We keep Ohmen and try to resign him. We can live with Manny for a couple of months and he’ll be a LOT more reasonable to resign if he behaves!
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Interesting Teixeira trade talk here in LA on Mason & Ireland 710 AM Radio I thought you bloggers would like to hear about.
First they had Bowman on the radio which pretty much concluded that if you had to hold a gun to his head, he’d say the most likely deal for Tex would be with the Dodgers.
Next they had a Ned Coletti discussion, saying that the Dodgers should first check with Brian Cashman to see if he’d resign Tex next year as the Dodgers GM. They seem to think Coletti is on his way out of the Dodgers front office & a guy like Cashman will probably take his place because of his relationship with Torre.
Then they had a guy named Bill on from the LA Times. He seemed to be more rational about the whole trade situation, much like DOB’s assessment above and mine last night…..
He said the Dodgers are having money issues, so the Braves would have to pay his salary for the year, something Atlanta doesn’t do. He said when the Dodgers got Blake, they had to give Cleveland the 2 prospects they did to clear up money to pay Blake. Thinking it would take a 10 year, $200 mil contract to resign Tex (though they admitted that’s what they thought it would take to sign Beltran who signed for less), he said the young talent the Braves would want wouldn’t be worth the risk of losing Tex next year. He said a trade to the Angels would be nice, but the same reason the Braves like Kotchman (he’s controlled cheaply till 2012), is the same reason the Angels like him.
I think the best deal would be to LA for Loney. We would also have to give them KJ to make the deal more enticing as Jeff Kent is near replaceable in LA, and KJ is rather cheap.
If the Braves got Loney, that’s another LH bat in the lineup along with KJ’s, McCann, Blanco, Chipper,Kotsay, etc… A line up with Loney, Prado, Escobar, Chipper, and maybe Kemp as well, would be pretty nice. The Dodgers have a lot of money freeing up after this season with Kent, Garciaparra, Saito, Furcal, all off the books, with AJ’s contract off the books next year. I think that guy Bill downplayed that in his assessment. But he did say that the Dodgers would want a mid-season contract signed by Tex, something Boras doesn’t do.
Boras iskilling any such deal for the Braves. Sad.
By StingerSplash
July 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
Best player goes on DL. Best pitcher goes on DL. All-star catcher out for (at least) a few games. Cleanup hitter on the auction block. Bullpen spits the bit in Philly in back-to-back games that could have put team right back in the thick of the race. (7 1/2 out isn’t insurmountable, but time is getting short and the three teams in front aren’t backsliding any). This is as bad a day to be a Braves fan since Murph got swapped to the Phils.
By JEB
July 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
braves2249 Sorry about that - you were right! I stand corrected. I did not remeber that at all!
By Retch
July 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe Frenchy is hitting before Sammons and Morton!!
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
I agree with those who mentioned that maybe we should be looking at this as a two step process. If we can get a 1B for Ohman (Lars Anderson from the Red Sox?), then we could trade Tex for the best possible package regardless of position. Ohman appears to be in high demand which may increase our chances of finding a team with a quality 1B to spare.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Still confounds me why the Red Sox would be interested in Teixeira. They must really be worried about Ortiz’ health. I mean Youkilis and Teixiera are both great offensively and defensively. And Youkilis is a heck of a lot cheaper. I’d mcuh rather have Youkilis than Teixiera.
I always thought the Rays might bite on Tex, too. They’re getting good, but not great production at 1B. Batting average was in the low .230s last I checked.
By BRAVO AND UGA
July 28, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
trade Francour for a dozen used baseballs even if you also throw in 100 season tickets! Or send him to T-Ball league.
By Run, Heap, Run!
July 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
Kotsay batting cleanup…oh my.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)
July 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Speaking of trade possibilities. The Red Sox have this young slugging first baseman in Lars Anderson who is ranked in the top five among all 1st base prospects.
The Red Sox are actively shopping for some left handed pitching for their bullpen. The other prospect they have is Chris Carter, who is ready for the big leagues right now and plays LF.
It would seem the Braves have the Red Sox over the barrel, so to speak.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
DOB
By real solid prospect, I hope you mean Max Scherzer or Jarrod Parker, right? Because Frank Wren should hang up the phone if it doesn’t include one of those two. They have nothing else in that system of significance(Gerardo Parra isn’t impact). If Jackson isn’t in the deal, then one impact piece needs to be, and that would be Parker or Scherzer. I’ll take Parker, personally.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Note to Braves:
Please don’t rush McCann!!
By Original Jon
July 28, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Thumb You said *I think the best deal would be to LA for Loney. We would also have to give them KJ to make the deal more enticing as Jeff Kent is near replaceable in LA, and KJ is rather cheap.
If the Braves got Loney, that’s another LH bat in the lineup along with KJ’s, McCann, Blanco, Chipper,Kotsay, etc… *
How on earth would KJ be in the lineup if he is added to the trade to entice the Dodgers?
By JEB
July 28, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
DOB the Angels make the most sence to me.
If a deal is made it will certainly be the Angels or AZ.
Angles have a good team as is, but… in the playoffs they have to get through Boston/NY/Rays etc. they will need something extra. TEX (at this time of year) might be the special thing to get them over the top! AND they can sign TEX in the offseason!
By Coach (I'm a moron)
July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
FIRESALE!
(this is the part where I spell out what I just wrote for emphasis)
F-I-R-E-S-A-L-E!
If Bobby Cox had just traded for Howard Johnson, everything would be ok.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Just talked to Frank for a while. Said they have deals on the table right now if they want to pull trigger. Deals that Braves are holding off on because they want to see if they can do better.
Said this is the last thing in the world he wanted to do, be trading players before the deadline. But that if you’ve got to do it, then you make sure you get the best possible deals to help your club win in years to come.
By Andy
July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
One of the deal should be Frency and James to the Royals for Greinke.
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Judging by Wren’s first few trades I would say there is a better than average chance he scores a good trade with Tex & Ohman, maybe others.
Renteria for Hernandez/JJJ & Infante/Ohman for Ascaino have both worked out. Anything Ohman brings in is gravy.
Kotsay for Devine hasn’t worked out as planned, but Cox wasn’t exactly in love with Devine so I doubt he was going to play a big role with Braves had be stayed.
By cutty
July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
I haven”t posted since DOB called me a Laroche basher last year after I questioned Adam and Andrew’s lack of hustle and declining productivity.I do, however, still follow folk”s opinions and offer one of my own… could it be that Cox was/is a manager of the steroids era,dependant on the long ball and extra base hit, and might not be what this club needs at this time? His place in baseball history is secure. Job well done. I don”t think the current Braves need to feel all that comfortable and secure with how they go about their daily jobs. Torre benched Jones today, I”ll bet he”d still be a fixture if he were here.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
DOB
what about Salazar….he’s in triple A and is a decent OF…if Jackson isn’t included…but I’d say Loney and LaRoche would be good too.
by the way who’s going to be pitching in Hudson’s next 3 starts?
from tv they said the could only retro Huddy and Chipper to Friday because Morton wasn’t optiioned til Sat.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
If I’m Frank Wren, there’s no way I trade Tex to the D’Backs unless Connor Jackson is involved in the deal. Tracy is older, and coming off a few injuries, he could be damaged goods. Plus, we’d have CoJack for longer, not to mention he puts up better numbers than Tracy. I mean, the ball is in Frank Wren’s court. Tex is an Atlanta Brave, so I’d insist on Jackson with ether one of the two pitching prospects everyone is raving about. Remember, we don’t HAVE to trade him, but it’d sure be nice to get these guys.
By Original Jon
July 28, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
So it sounds like a definite trading of Tex is imminent.
Just to who is what he is waiting on.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
DOB—
Is McCann there tonight?
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
DOB Any hints on trading partners? Same teams as rumored or maybe a surprise?
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
I asked Wren about the Tex trade, in retrospect.
“We don’t feel it was a bad deal. We didn’t get the result we wanted, that’s clear. Would we do it again? I think we would.”
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Man take it easy on Frenchy, the man is a good athlete he just needs to make some adjustments, because obviously the opposition find that he always chases that high fastball, and frenchy obviously has been betting that the pitcher wont throw it high enough, and that hasn’t been the case.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Tex just came to bat with one of his usual intro music songs, All Along the Watchtower.
First line: “There must be some kind of way out of here….”
By vic
July 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
It would be nice if we had a mgr. that had the balls to bench Frency, the way Joe Torre did A. Jones. Torre said , you play your best nine to win. Why don’t Cox do that. Oh, I forgot Bobby walks on water.
By Andy k.
July 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
DOB, judging by Wren’s comments, can we expect a post-game, or even game time trade? Thanks in advance, sir.
By nick
July 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
the fact that wren has “offers on the table” that he can pull the trigger on at any time tells me that they arn’t going to blow anyone away. if he believes he could get a really good return for tex in one of those offers, he would have pulled the trigger by now. imo
By Mike
July 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
If those deals have Parker or Scherzer involved, then fine. Hopefully it is Parker.
By Mac
July 28, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
If the Braves trade Teixeira for Chad “Park Effects” Tracy and second-line prospects, it’s yet another data point that they don’t know what they’re doing. We won’t get Jackson, but they have to get top-notch prospects, not a gaggle of relievers and back-of-the-rotation starters.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
DOB, Does he have a deal for Ohman on the table?
By TenneseePaul
July 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN….The Braves have acquired Kevin Youkalis and Jacoby Ellsbury for Mark Texiera and Jordan Schaefer… Reports indicate the Red Sox made the offer and as soon as Braves GM Frank Wren heard the proposal, he accepted immediately. Awesome move for the Braves. They filled two holes, one at first, the other in the outfield!
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
Rammerjammer
I’m with you, man. Tex is the scapegoat because he was the missing piece of the championship puzzle…and then the other pieces fell apart! Not his fault…he did his part. I wish him good luck.
It’s nice to finally have ONE PERSON agree with me. It’s nice to know one person out there has the common sense to see, hey, this guy is pretty good.
I think on this note I will let this topic go.
As for that poll DOB mentioned. I can understand that. Tex is a very good player, but if you are going to start a team with a first baseman I’m sure you’d pick one with a career OPS higher than 908.
It’s not even that Tex is necessarily underrated, it’s just that a lot of other guys are overrated.
I mean compare him to Adrian Gonzalez, same position and with Tex clearly having the defensive edge. Gonzalez is 2 years younger than Tex. So consider Tex up through age 26.
At 26, Tex in 4 full seasons had 2 seasons with OPSes over 900 (930 and 954).
His career stats at that point: .282/.364/.534, an .898 OPS with 140 HR in 2346 AB. That is a HR every 16.8 AB.
Gonzalez’s up til now: .283/.345/.494., an .839 OPS with 86 HR in 1818 AB. A HR every 21.1 AB.
Now I like Gonzalez, but would you take Tex at 28 with a career .908 OPS and 190 career HR, or Gonzalez at 26 with a career .839 OPS and 86 career HR?
Basically my point is that these things are all about reputation rather than results.
And no Tex doesn’t deserve to get any votes (no way I’d pick as any of the 5 players I’d most build a team around). That’s no crime.
The real shock is that people would pick guys like 839 OPS Gonzalez (I believe he even got some first place votes).
Keep in mind that in this same poll Albert Pujols, with his 302 HR and 1.042 OPS at the age of 28, didn’t even make the top 5. Way to go professional GMs.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
Andy K I agree with you.
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Wow, now Hudson is out too! That’s 4 of the 5 original starters.
I’ve been one to say lets hang in there, but now I believe the tide is turning. If we can’t pitch, it really doesn’t matters a lot less who is in LF or at 1st base.
I think if we trade Tex, another good starter would also be a suitable return.
Where are all the people who insisted that the Braves didn’t need any more starters?
We should have been in the Sabathia sweepstakes and/or Harden. Hudson and 4 rookies was asking for trouble, even though the rooks had a good month in them.
With Chipper out, ironically the only big money guys contributing now are Hampton and Tex. Most opf the payroll is not contributing, no team can survive that.
By who cares
July 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Who really cares about the braves and their over the hill manager, and their AA bullpen. It’s football season, and after watching Cox and this joke of a baseball team finish out of the playoffs for the 3rd year, one can only hope that liberty media sell the team, so we don’t have to watch cox and his boy chipper cry for another year. When you have an ownership that is more concerned about selling porn in hotels, than managing their investment in a baseball team, this is what you get. The braves are spending all their money on Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton, and thus they can’t afford quality middle relief, or a quality bench. This is the worst group of middle releivers in baseball, not to mention the worst bench in baseball. Richmond’s lineup could beat Ring, and Boyer, and not to mention that Miller couldn’t even start at richmond.Liberty should sell the team or actually get involved and act like an ownership, and maybe just maybe make Cox, Pendleton, and Wren answer to someone about their pathetic performance.
By AdirondackDave
July 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Got to agree with Andy, it has to be Jackson or no Arizona deal. Tracy offers little but a problematic one-year rental. I’d rather have two high draft picks. Now Jackson… that’s a different kettle of fish. Kotchman in a package could work too. Tex is going somewhere in the next few days, hope that wait until Thursday for the best deal. Hate to see Ohman go, almost more even than Tex. I was looking forward to DOB telling us more Ohman clubhouse stories.
By Mac
July 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Chad Tracy’s platoon splits:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=tracych01&year=00#plato-plato
Ugh.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
DOB
Do you think the Braves got the deal they wanted and are just holding out for more, or do you think they still don’t like what is out there?
Basically, is Jarrod Parker or Max Scherzer on the table?
But I guess if you knew that you would be a mind reader…..
Just trying to see who the #1 pick will be(Kinda of like waiting for your team to draft in the NFL). Very exciting/embarrassed that my team is picking first feeling.
By lexbrave
July 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
so the two guys they are after for Tex are one that’s a free agent after next season and one that’s arbitration eligible after this season? I think I’d rather have the prospects.
By Carolina Matt
July 28, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, any chance at a Tex for Manny deal? I don’t know how much longer Manny is under contract, but if it’s more than just the rest of this year wouldn’t his power hitting right-handed bat make sense for the Braves?
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)
July 28, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox wouldn’t bench Andrew Jones and he won’t bench Jeff Francoeur. Live with it. Cox is a genius.
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
Original Jon
I meant, if the Braves got Loney for Tex alone, that would be yet another LH bat in the lineup.
Meaning, it would make sense to trade our LH 2nd baseman to the Dodgers in a trade deal. It would make the deal more enticing for the Dodgers who will need a replacement for Kent next year, and it would make sense for the Braves to finally give Prado a chance and to level out the RH and LH bats in the lineup in doing so.
By AdirondackDave
July 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Tenn Paul - Hmmm… Tex, Youkulis, and Ellsbury are all playing right now. I’m thinking your source is pulling your leg.
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Nick
Nice assessment at 7:26. I thought the same thing when I read that.
Maybe he’s trying to create leverage and interest when saying so, but I doubt it.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
There are at least as many Cardinals fans here as Braves fans. Seriously.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
This is just great 6-0. Man Wren just make the trades I can’t watch this anymore.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Tell me, Bobby Cox lovers.. How’s that intentional walk working out for ya? Looks like 6-0, eh?
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
I guess my main point here is that the stats really don’t mean a whole lot in this argument. You are not going to convince people who thought Tex would be better than this (mostly because of the hype) to accept that the guy has been everything they’d hoped he’d be. It just hasn’t worked out that way, so some fans are going to direct that frustration toward Tex. The Braves raised the expectations of fans by trading for Tex last year and, if these blogs are any kind of barometer for fan opinion, got burned by it.
You are right.
It’s not that the stats don’t mean a lot in the argument, they do have meaning, just most people won’t understand the meaning because they are just flabbergasted that we would trade away anything of value for anyone who can’t singlehandedly win us the division, no matter how many other problems we have.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)
July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
The catcher rounds the bases, OMG ! For funny. The Braves defense is putrid.
By nfieldr
July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
THAT was a little league play… and a bad LL play at that!
By TURTSNAP
July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Is there anyway, in addition to trading Tex, that the Braves could just call up the entire Richmond roster to play? This is utterly ridiculous!!!!
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Would the loser who falsely posted under my name @ 7:35pm please stand up?
I did not post that BoSox deal. I don’t care if it does come true, I’m still not taking credit for it. Couldn’t even spell Tennessee right. Just about killed my mother.
Still waiting on official word of the agony that is sure to come from the State.
By mike
July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
What a sad franchise the Braves have become when the opposing team has more fans.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
wow, that was an ugly inning. that looked like the 1988 braves out there …
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t sound too good about Hudson’s elbow. Sounds like the beginnings of Tommy John. Too similar to Hampton’s experience thus far. Hope I’m wrong on this one.
While he’s on the DL, how ‘bout a MRI or two?
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Molina just scored making all the way around the bases. You’re talking about one of the slowest runners on the game.
By faninFaytown
July 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
well at least the braves arent trying to make the decision to change his mind hard on wren
By lilman
July 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
This is embarasing…there are 57 more games like this to come.
Yes, there have been a lot of injuries, but you should be able to play better than this with your 2nd unit.
This is horrible!!!
Good-bye Tex, and please take Cox & Jeffery with you!!!
By h_charles
July 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Goche:
Agree about Tex. Not his fault. However, Gonzalez’ park must be factored in comparison. He plays in a lame lineup in a canyon. Tex played in a launching pad in Texas, and has had better protection in ATL. I’d bet Gonzo’s numbers would equal Tex offensively with the same surroundings.
Of course, defensively there is no question.
BTW — this team looks to have given up. Sad.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
10Paul,
I knew that couldn’t be you. You’re, you know, sane.
By lilman
July 28, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
With this type of start, the players are going to give, and just want get this game over. I wouldn’t be suprised if the Braves arte no-hit tonight. At the very least, they’re prime to be shut out.
Bring out the brown paper bags!!!
By varoadrunner
July 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
This is sick. We will probably sit around sucking our thumbs while the trading deadline comes and goes.
Maybe some GM’s felt duped during John Scherholz’s glory days of trading. Maybe Frank Wren is the price for our past success. Whatever the reason, FW does not seem to be using his head.
Do not trade Tex for Tracy and anyone. What a slide… Throw in Ohman and get jackson. Throw in Hampton, but get us some people that can play baseball and play it well. No more also-rans or medium prospects.
Come on Frank, grow a pair and do your job. So far, I am not impressed!
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
The article on braves.com says Braves All-Star catcher Brian McCann was held out of the starting lineup Monday and will likely miss at least one more game.
No. Not only two games! No. I know we need his bat, but it ain’t gonna be his bat if they rush this thing.
Please, Braves!
Is he there tonight?
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
It took about 100 games for Bobby to find out that JF has to hit 7th…….wonder how many more games til he founds out JF has to hit 8th and then how many for to find out he needs to return to the minors.
1 hit through 4…………JF……………go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a joke
By Morton Hears A Whoa
July 28, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
I think Morton has some talent, though not as much as many on here claim, but I think he is a head case who will never amount to much in the major leagues. He ought to try seeing a shrink.
By SR
July 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
Any of you remember the heyday of Georgia Championship Wrestling and the NWA? Remember when a villain (doesn’t matter who, you choose, could have been anyone, the format was always the same) needed a hapless victim to destroy while headed towards one of the more glamorous and err, competitive matches? We used to refer to that poor sap as the “sacrifice”. That ‘s the first image that comes to mind as I see poor Charlie Morton taking one for the team tonight.
By Robin
July 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
This is really, really, really PATHETIC. We look like a HS team out there against these pro teams. I can’t wait for this to be over ……………….really!
Lets get another 9-run inning ……..so we can blow that …..again too.
By Chris
July 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
update on anything DOB?
By Supes
July 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
If there is any common sense…Braves will rest Mac, hell give him 14 days on the DL.
There is NO NEED for BMac right now.
No Chipper, No Huddy, what’s the rush?
Have you seen any of the game so far?
This Braves team is LIFELESS!
Dead. Finished. I’m betting TEX and Ohman have their bags packed and can’t wait to go to a contender.
I hope FRANK WREN is smarter than us…and doesn’t do ANY deal that includes Chad Tracey. JUST SAY NO to that guy.
Plus there are 3 more days and change, some team will sweeten the pot if Wren holds out, you never know. Don’t need to deal TEX and Ohman “RIGHT NOW”. Thursday is the deadline.
One more thing…Braves defense…SHAME, they left Charlie out to dry. He pitched poorly but was betrayed at least twice by errant throws.
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
No Chipper Jones and Tim Hudson now? God really hates the Braves his year!!
By A-ville Ranger
July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
I really can’t understand how Mcguirk can watch this Braves team and not see how management has eroded.
Tom Landry rates in the top 10 all time of pro football coaches.He clearly wasn’t the same coach in 1988 as he had been in 1978 though.
I can understand loyalty and gratitude but this is blind loyalty in my book.
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
This is ugly, ugly, ugly. The Phillies series took a lot out them along with the injuries.
The current crop of young players don’t have that fortitude that we saw in the early and mid 90’s young players. These guys are talented but can’t sustain that extra gear to step up and meet the challenge of the other team.
I’ve stayed away from commenting about Cox, but this is where he’s going to have to do some work. I’m not going to presume to know more about manging baseball teams than him, but this is a time where a leader of any group of people is going to have to assert his leadership and ride these guys now so they don’t go into a severe nosedive.
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
The Nats & Seattle had better look look out because the Braves are moving on down. They may just make a run at the top draft spot at this rate.
Didn’t the draft Chipper with the first pick in 1989? 20 year later………….
By roman88
July 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
whatever they do I wish the pitiful outfield can be addressed, this is the worst outfield production, or lack there of i’ve seen in years, geez if we still had dye, and drew… dave, why is there never any talk of canizares? checking the richmond roster, his numbers look pretty good, near 300 avg, few errors, and please do something about miller, tavares, gotay, etc.. before ‘09, at least the future looks good with jurjens, campilla..
By Supes
July 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Good job TEX…increase that trade value in your last 3 games as an ATLANTA Braves player!
By roman88
July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
whatever they do I wish the pitiful outfield can be addressed, this is the worst outfield production, or lack there of i’ve seen in years, geez if we still had dye, and drew… dave, why is there never any talk of canizares? checking the richmond roster, his numbers look pretty good, near 300 avg, few errors, and please do something about miller, tavares, gotay, etc.. before ‘09, at least the future looks good with jurjens, campilla.. the golden boy should be dealt too, even if for a backup catcher
By Greg O.
July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Through four innings at Turner Field, St. Louis 8, East Cobb 0.
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Its officially over……….
2008 season is over for the Braves…………
I just hope they have learned from mistakes.
Mistakes:
Jeff F.
A starting rotation that couldnt pithc more than 5 innings, at least most of them (glavine, hampton, smoltz, jojo, james, morton)
A team built around injured players, or too old players that couldnt hang on for at least 80% of the season): CHIPPER, SMOLTZ, SORIANO, GONZO, GLAVINE, HAMPTON, KOTSAY.
Lots of players not ready to make a major league team : JF, JOJO, JAMES, MORTON, CORKY, BLANCO, BJ, BOYER, , ACOSTA, RIDGWAY, STOCKMAN, GOTAY.
COX being as wayyyyyyyy tooooooo patient with bad performances and bad performers.
Way to many injuries……..this is no coincidence……….no way it has anything to do with the smog in atlanta or the water………trainers and or coaches or somebody is not doing their jobs……………dont ever think this many injuries is bad luck……….you can call Moylan bad luck………or maybe Yunel but here goes the list of injuried players:
MOYLAN, GLAVINE, BENNETT, BOYER, ACOSTA, HAMPTON, CHIPPER, KJ, JF, INFANTE, DIAZ, SMOLTZ, CAMPILLO, KOTSAY, PRADO, MCCAN, JURRJENS.
Thats insane………only position players not injured this season……..BLANCO, TEX (and I think TEX lost a few games or innings because of injury).
By Tyler Johnson
July 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’ BRIEN
WHAT TEAMS HAVE MADE OFFERS
WHEN CAN WE EXPECT A TRADE
TODAY???
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
varoadrunner Why would you trade a starter now? Especially the only starter we have that’s pitched more than a season?
No team is going to take Hampton in a trade with his injury history and big contract.
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
SR,
Charlie Morton = Randy or Bill Mulkey
You know what I’m talkin’ bout…
By uga-brave
July 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
let’s try to limit it to two touchdowns.
really no excuses for the outfielder’s air mailing cut off men.
DOB, it’s is going to be you and the cow there for the balance of the season.
By KC
July 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
The Braves can STILL win this division!!!!
Just kidding. It’s over.
I just pray Hudson’s okay, and that there’s nothing wrong with him that could spill over into next year!!!!!
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
FRANK WREN you need to make a correct move! Chad tracy would be failure no matter what. THE braves faced more lefties the last two yearsthan any other team. The guy cant hit lefties plus he a huge drop from TEX. you can do better especially YOU HAVE MULTI DEALS on table..DO not i repeat do not get tracy!
By 57Braves
July 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Mound presence and attitude are huge factors in a pitcher’s components for success. Morton has some talent but is lacking big time in those two factors. I know he’s young, but some guys got it, and some don’t. He’s just not “wired” right to be a big time player.
By Robert
July 28, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
I very much doubt that the Braves will get a major leaguer for Tex. They would trade Tex for CJackson, Youkilis, or Kotchman straight up in a heartbeat, but aint gonna happen
They’ll do well to get one legit prospect and a couple of minor league roster fillers
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Carolina Matt, no. Braves aren’t trading Tex for another pending free agent who’s going to cost a fortune to re-sign.
They’re going to trade him for young, cheaper talent that can fill a hole or two next season and possibly for several seasons.
Who really cares about the braves and their over the hill manager, and their AA bullpen. It’s football seasonwho cares
Indeed, who? Oh, that’s right — you do. You’re on this blog and not the Falcons or any college football blog. Thanks for stopping by (again).
By mitchie-san
July 28, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Hudson NO!!!!!!! How can it get any worse??????????????
By Erin
July 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
So is that going to be a Tommy John for Huddy?
Un-FREAKING-believable.
Hampton must have contaminated something.
By mitchie-san
July 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Wren is about to have a press conference about Hudson and it isnt good news….
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
HUDSON MRI today, getting ready to give us results.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren = Pete Babcock
By Tyler Johnson
July 28, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN DAVID O’ BRIEN
**WHAT TEAMS HAVE MADE OFFERS
WHEN CAN WE EXPECT A TRADE
TODAY???**
By Bill in VA
July 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
I agree with By Tiger7_88 in his 5:57 post, as a longtime (career) player, catcher, in fact, there was no reason to come in like Vic did. Any team I played for would have found a way to take him out within a few of innings…or the next day, even. Not, I might add, by throwing at his head.
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
h_charles
However, Gonzalez’ park must be factored in comparison. He plays in a lame lineup in a canyon.
Honestly I didn’t think of that. The Petco effects combined with the park effects of Tex at Texas ought to make up a good part of the gap.
By Chris
July 28, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, any Hudson news?
By TomL
July 28, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
DOB - You hear anything about a press conference annoucning bad news about Tim Hudson? Yiikes
By Iron Labrum
July 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
DOB…great stuff from Wren. Not that he was ever really in this position, but I can’t image JS being so candid.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Couldn’t make this stuff up: Injury in “area” of ulnar collateral ligament. Wren wouldn’t say anything more or characterize severity of injury until after Hudson sees Dr. Andrews this week.
Unbelievable.
By mike
July 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Hopefully the Braves will make a trade soon. I don’t know what they are waiting for.
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
wow, Hudson is visiting Doc Andrews.
He’s got some old injury in there. This is muy terrible.
By mitchie-san
July 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Ligament damage…..oh boy. He’s gonna go visit DR. ANDREWS!!! Thats never good.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Hudson has ligament damage, eh?
By cabravesfan
July 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Not good news about Huddy- sounds like it sould be serious…damn
By Chippendale Dancer
July 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Bloggers are throwing the word stud around again.
Seems like you people really don’t know the meaning of the word.
Now, DOB is a kind of stud. A wordstud.
By s1s2c3t4
July 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
how about kelly johnson and ohman to cards for colby rasmus and ml pitcher????
By Mike
July 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Wow. I am in utter shock. Huddy to have Tommy John???
This is ridiculous. That is it for next season too.
Damn, I wish they dealt him before he got hurt……
By Tommy
July 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Hudson has re-aggravated an old injure from his past and may require Tommy John. O dear…
By champ
July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
TYLER JOHNSON shut the hell up.
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
Wow that’s another swift kick in the gut. Add another need for next season. That leaves JJJ as our “ace”. Unreal that a pitching staff can have that many injuries to elbows & shoulders in one season.
This may change who Wren goes after in the trade market.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
Okay, here is a trade proposal for the D’Backs situation:
Braves Get:
1B-Connor Jackson: This selection is a given. SP-Max Scherzer: I mean, c’mon, we need a pitcher, a young one at that, and a rotation of Hudson, Jurrjens, Scherzer, Campillo, and Glavine wouldn’t be horrible.
Diamondbacks Get: 1B-Tex (The whole basis of the trade.) LF-Brandon Jones (Jackson had been playing LF for them, Jones gives them a possible replacement. Draft Pick Considerations
By Bo
July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Everyone has a deal for Wren. I hope they go with Angels and get Kotchman and pitching. Just get it done!
By joesizzle
July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
dob -
if i were wren this is what i would aim for:
what about a tex trade to the d-backs in a multiplayer deal that included either max scherzer or jarrod parker and then a trade with the pirates that would bring adam laroche back to atlanta (aren’t they interested in lillibridge again, too? and could the d-backs be interested in ohman too?
i think laroche is a free agent at the end of the year and it would be smart move for wren to find a good long term replacement for tex to quickly appease and reassure tomahawk nation. he could probably do that with adam laroche - don’t you think?
By randy
July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
David,
Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Whoopdy.
It just keeps getting better.
By uga-brave
July 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
not good news on huddy. most people that make that trip to birmingham come back with the same diagnosis.
By Supes
July 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
Hudson visiting Dr. Andrews - NOT GOOD
If I’m the Braves, I shut down Huddy for a while.
Maybe they can call up Hanson from AA. Give the kid a chance, let’s see what he has, why wait until next year’s spring training to see if he can be in the rotation.
After the deals are made for either TEX or Ohman or whoever, bring up as many kids…including Josh Anderson and Brandon Jones, let them play!
This august and september is the time to find out what we really have in our young players from the minors.
As I type this…Braves signs of life…one run scored, at least they won’t get shutout at home by Looper.
KC I wondered where you went with your positive thinking my friend, we need you now more than ever to put a good spin on it. It can’t get any worse…can’t it?
By Chris
July 28, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
tex is bout to be gone…chipper on the dl…hudson going to visit Dr. Andews…plus moylan, glav, soriano, smoltz, and probably a couple of ushers or somebody…
is it too late for the General Assembely to reconsider the Sunday Alcohol sales? I have a feeling I’m gonna need it.
Thanks for the updates DOB, keep us posted.
By Mike
July 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Well, that is it then. 2009 is a goner too. This is the worst s** I have ever seen.
That was the biggest hit this franchise has taken in years folks.
The biggest.
Hudson was depended on. Really depended on to lead this rotation. Now he might be gone until 2010. He has an option for that year, but is coming off TJ surgery.
This is an injury that changes the direction of the franchise.
By JasonInMaine
July 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Iam not being wise, but the Braves seem to have a lot of TJ surgeries lately: lerew, hampton, moylan, Gonzo (hurt before trade?), and now maybe Hudson…
Anything to do with a change in their throwing program that they used to have under Leo or is it basically the same program?
By LT-AA Blogger
July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Hudson- ughhh!
Let the offseason Ben Sheets or CC Sabathia debate begin! Gotta go for CC- no Sheets (pun intended).
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Wow. It’s NEVER good to see Dr. Andrews. Now we will really have to stockpile cash to go after Sabathia or Sheets or somebody like that.
On another note, Bowman said in a post on the mlb.com trade blog that the Yankees have shown some interest in Tex. If that’s true, it’s always good to have the Yankees involved.
By Big Easy
July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Well, what a craptastic day. Our family dog dies, and Hudson might need Tommy John.
It could get worse…but not by much.
~E~
By Yokohama Daze
July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Particularly in light of this news about Hudson, it seems to me that the Braves almost have to get a pitching prospect in any deal. Sure hope we can get Parker or Scherzer as part of any deal with the D-Backs, particularl;y if we’re to accept a relatively lesser light like Tracy. Heck, I’d be interested to see if the Bravos don’t make getting young pitching in return on any deal their top priority now…
By Jake
July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
You know I knew it was going to be hard for us with all the injuries but this makes no sense. They could at least try. The Cardinals just got whipped by the Mets and Brewers, now here they come in here beating up on us. These players have no pride. They talk about how much they love their teammates and their manager. Yet know one is really playing hard for them. I could stomach the losses better if I knew we were fighting to the end.
By Run, Heap, Run!
July 28, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
I’m shedding a tear thinking of the lineup without Chipper, Mac, or Tex in the next several days/weeks.
Confucious say save your money…more blow outs coming soon.
By randy
July 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
David,
Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?
By randy
July 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
David,
Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?
By Mike
July 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I think McDowell should be fired after this year and put Pendleton and Cox on the hotseat for next year. We need a young manager to lead this team.
By JEB
July 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
For Tim Hudson: The UCL - that’s the same as Moylan, Hampton, Smoltz(2000), Gonzales. They all had something in common also - TJ surgery. Man… I don’t know that I have ever seen a team have as much hard times as this team this year.
By Tom A. Hawk
July 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
What a nightmare this season is turning in to…
By N8
July 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
After seeing those day/night splits for Tex, I am further convinced that not only should he be batting in the 6th spot in the order, he should be platooned and ONLY play in day games.
For those of you that didn’t see them on the broadcast, he has 13 HR in 33 day games, and 7 HR in 69 night games, while having a .390 Ave, with a .590 OBP and a .890 SLG percentage in day games, compared to his .228 Ave, his .327 OBP, and his .362 SLG percentage in night games.
Wren better hope that either A) prospective trade partners DON’T have access to those stats, or B) they have a LOT of Day games remaining on the calendar. I’m gonna just go out on a limb here, and guess that Boras isn’t gonna have those splits highlighted and on the first page of his Tex Encyclopedia of Stats/Biography at the end of the year, huh?
Like I said about a month ago, too bad for Tex that the Cubs have Derek Lee locked up. Tex would be PERFECT in that park.
By uga-brave
July 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
the curse of jane fonda rears its head.
By Supes
July 28, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
OK, anyone who is saying Huddy will be out for 2009 season, you don’t know that yet.
Why not wait until we get word after his visit with Dr. Andrews before declaring doom and gloom for 09.
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
If Wren does deal with Arizona maybe he can pick up Owings. When he’s not pitching he would be the best bat on the bench that we have, well as the roster is currently constructed.
In all seriousness the Braves have more problems than they can probably deal with in one off season. They knew Tex would most likely have to be replaced, but now they are probably not going to have the Hudson for next season, maybe Smoltz as well. Moylen is coming off of TJ surgery & who knows how he will respond. Gonzalez just returned, but set backs are always a fear & can be expected to some degree.
The rotation, line up bench & bullpen are all question marks for next season. Oh what a mountain Frank Wren has to climb to have this team compete next season.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop all the asinine trade proposals. And when I say that I mean please stop all trade proposals. Every trade proposal I have seen on here has been asinine. Stick with the principal players you’d like such as Loney, Kotchman, Jackson or Tracy and then please stop guessing and making demands like any of you have a clue. Just have faith that the Braves scouts and the front office will know what supplementary pieces need to be added to the trade. Almost every single trade I have seen proposed on here would have been rejected by the sim computer on my XBOX
By Run, Heap, Run!
July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB is Heap back in ATL yet? Are Chipper and Huddy even at the park?
By Big Easy
July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
You know, a suggestion that I saw, I believe from Ken Rosenthal, makes a lot of sense. You know, the D-Backs really won’t want to give up Conor Jackson. But, if they had to settle for Chad Tracy, and another piece, maybe Micah Owings would be available. He hasn’t had a great run lately, but he is a solid pitcher.
And, he hits better than some of our regulars.
Again, saw it in Rosenthal’s story, but not sure the Braves or the D-Backs would do it.
~E~
By brent a.
July 28, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Big Easy
Sorry about the dog.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Hudson to Dr. Andrews. F#CK!
I’ve said it before, this team needed more quality major league ready starters for the rotation. And now, with this news, nothing has changed other than the quantity the team needs.
That bad side, this has the potential to result in a signing of an “elite” starter from the free agent market… which would narrow the list down to CC Sabathia or Ben Sheets. One is just waiting to get all Barto, and the other is well practiced to step in for Hampton.
The bright side… We still have Teixeira. Perhaps now the focus will be more on a pitcher than Chad Tracy.
And the hits just keep on comin’
By N8
July 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
DOB
If Wren is truly trying to make a trade with Tex as the centerpiece, to not only save money (that would have been spent on Tex), but to compete next year, do you think the possible loss of Hudson (which I’m gonna assume would be partially covered by insurance), would “heighten” the chances of the Braves making a strong financial push for a guy like Ben Sheets or CC Sabathia?
Just seems to me that if they don’t replace Hudson (if he’s out) with a LEGIT ACE, then they might as well write off 2009 as rebuilding anyhow, huh?
Let me be the first to predict that Mike Hampton will be in our starting rotation next season….be it at a MUCH cheaper rate than right now.
By Meier
July 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Mike, you’re the biggest idiot I’ve seen on here in a long time. Go read your comic books, and maybe grow a pair. You have nothing to offer here.
By JJMB
July 28, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Wow wow wow wow. That bat came one inch from spearing blue’s brain (through his eye).
I ‘d be buying some serious eye protection.
By Enuffzenuff
July 28, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Oh where oh where has my Mazzoooone gone? Oh where oh where can he beeee?
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
I just posted something about injuries about 30 minutes ago and boooommmm,,,,,,, Hudson to visit surgery table…….
This is no coincidence………..this players clearly are no doing a good conditioning program……..
You can add AJ to that problem, thats why he was out of shape, etc.
Problem with this is that there is a big chance James will never get out of his live long injuries if they dont change something about their warm ups and conditioning, etc
Wouldnt be surprised to see at least 2 more pitchers and 2 more position player hit the DL .
By Mike
July 28, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Fastasballs
Owings is a vastly overrated prospect and I hope that this recent Tim Hudson news doesn’t stray Frank Wren from realizing that prospects Jarrod Parker and Max Scherzer have more value.
SAY NO TO MICAH OWINGS.
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Good point about Kelly Johnson. I don’t know what the winter market will be like (a trade, more likely). I’ve always thought that Prado was the better defender. Fans rap him for his range, but at least the balls he gets to he usually fields. Frankly, I never thought Prado had a chance to compete fairly for the position; management was bound and determined to go with Johnson Jeff R
Nice post. Prado never really got a fair chance. He’s a 2nd baseman by trade, didn’t have to convert, and had monstrous spring trainings the last 2 years. People on here love KJ, but I firmly believe Prado is the better player. The year KJ converted though, they wanted Prado to have another year in AAA, in which he led Richmond deep into the IL playoffs. This year, he should’ve been given the chance to compete for the starting gig, and as KJ has dropped offensively, he should finally be given that chance.
They have Lillbridge and Prado (who I guess can both be coverted to play 2B, although they normally play on the other side of the diamond) Supes
Maybe that’s why many on here don’t like Prado, because they don’t know much about him. Supes, Prado is not from the other side of the diamond. He’s always been a 2nd baseman and had a .995 fielding % in 87 games last year in Richmond.
By Lew
July 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Supes_You’d shut Hudson down for a while? Dude, if it’s what it looks like, you won’t see him next year, either. TJ surgery is in his future. They ain’t even doing the High Resolution MRI and are sending him to the knife man.
By gayle
July 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Einstein’s got it right. All this trade talk is so much blather. Unless this team is willing to make changes at the top, it just doesn’t matter.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
This is what I would think the Braves lineup will be next year including the Tex trade:
Lineup:
Starting pitchers:
Relivers:
So what happens here is, the braves trade Tex for a very capable first baseman. They sign an outfielder that would provide them some power, and they sign an ace caliber pitcher instead of Texeira, and sign a veteran lefty in eddie Guardado. They decline Smoltz 12 million dollar and resign him along with Glavine, and Hampton for a total of 4 million( you don’t lose much and possibly get a lot if they could stay healthy). Obviously this team needs to stay healthy because if they don’t it will be the same as this year.
By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)
July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
It’s beginning to look like JS got the hell out of the GM seat while the “gettin’ was good”.
This is not all Wren’s fault. The man is dealing with more “major” injuries to key players in one season than JS dealt with in 17 seasons.
Well. The 80’s are back. Looks like I need to revisit the “mullet salon”, so I can fit in.
By woogidy
July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
DOB, any chance the Braves move Tex and Will Ohman for a propsed plan to build a hospital just over the right field fence? This way we could at least see the players on the team at the games. Maybe they could do a dance(one-legged for chipper) and do the Tomahawk chop(off arm for pitchers) on top of it.
By Greg
July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Wow! We’re going to finish last. Good news for the Nats. Maybe if Liberty buys a free agent pitcher or two, we can go worst to first again. Hope springs eternal.
By Interested Observer
July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
After we dump Tex’s and Hampton’s salary this offseason, the biggest drain on the Braves payroll may be Dr. Andrews.
By Jman
July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox will never be on the hot seat. Neither should he be. He’s earned the right to manage this team as long as he desires or until he becomes a detriment such as Bobby Bowden at FSU or JoePa at Penn St. Tex trade to DBacks HAS to include Conor Jackson. Chipper needs to go as well. How many HUGE series has this choker missed all year!?! Ridiculous! He all of a sudden cant walk when it comes to the Mets or Phillies. This is the second Philly series he missed. Cmon!
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Maybe Hudson can get some pointers from Hampton.. Ya know, like what to do when your “hurt and can’t work” but have millions in the bank.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Auspicious debut for Mr. Clint Sammons.
Why didn’t Jeff Bennett start. Morton is not ready for prime time.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Big E—
I’m sorry to hear about your dog. : (
Run, Heap, Run!—
I was wondering that, too (is McCann back yet?).
You should change your name to Heal, Heap, Heal for the time being.
There’s something about this game…it doesn’t feel like I’m watching the Braves…
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Here’s story I just filed:
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
Pitcher Tim Hudson has a potentially serious elbow injury, the latest blow in a nightmarish season for the can’t end soon enough for the Braves.
“It’s in the ligament area [and] it’s more than inflammation,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday’s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field. “We’ve had more than our share [of injuries], that’s for sure.”
Then he mustered a smile and said, “Could throw a yellow flag for piling on.”
Hudson wasn’t available for comment before the game.
The Braves placed Hudson and third baseman Chipper Jones (hamstring) on the 15-day disabled list earlier in the day, but manager Bobby Cox had indicated it was more a precautionary measure with Hudson and that the right-hander would probably be fine after missing a couple of starts.
But that was before the Braves got back the MRI results from the 4 p.m. exam Hudson had in Atlanta.
The report was not good, though Wren said he wouldn’t characterize in any more detail until after Hudson was examined by the Braves’ orthopedist and Andrews at his clinic in Birmingham, Ala.
Wren said only that the injury was in “the area” of the ulnar collateral ligament. If it’s a torn ligament, Hudson could face season-ending “Tommy John” ligament-transplant surgery and a recovery period that typically lasts at least 12 months.
The Braves will hope for something less severe in their 33-year-old ace’s pitching arm. Hudson is 11-7 with a 3.17 ERA in a staff-leading 142 innings, and has a 146-77 career record in 10 seasons with Oakland and Atlanta.
The Alabama native is in the third year of a four-year, $47 million contract extension he signed after being traded from Oakland following the 2004 season. He is scheduled to make $13 million in 2009, with a $12 million option for 2010 that’s mutual and includes a $1 million buyout.
Hudson left his Wednesday start at Florida after six scoreless innings due to upper forearm/elbow soreness, but threw Sunday in Philadelphia and said he was fine and would make his next start.
Instead, the Braves said earlier Monday they would turn to Jorge Campillo on Tuesday.
“I’m gonna rest [Hudson],” Cox said Monday afternoon. “He’s not ‘fine.’ Why take a chance right now? If it’s bothering him, it’s bothering him. He always makes himself available [to pitch].”
With the fourth-place Braves 7-1/2 games back in the National League East after blowing big leads in losses Saturday and Sunday to the Phillies, the Braves saw no reason to risk further injury to Hudson.
As it turned out, the damage was already done. Wren said the MRI revealed injuries that included some older damage and some new. Again, he would not elaborate, other than to say there had not been warning signs before Wednesday’s start.
“I think everybody was a little surprised there was something [injured in the elbow],” Wren said.
Hudson is the fourth member of the Braves’ season-opening rotation to land on the DL, after John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton. Rookie Jair Jurrjens also missed a start with a sprained ankle.
Smoltz had season-ending shoulder surgery, and Glavine is trying to come back from a partially torn flexor tendon near his pitching elbow.
By RC
July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
For all that’s gone wrong this year, Wren did a great job in the offseason trying to plan for problems. I can’t think of another team that could have lost the players we did (#1,3, and 4 pitchers, closer and set-up man, Chipper at various points of the season, and the implosion of Francouer) and still be somewhat in the race at this point in the season. It does look like a daunting task for this team to rebuild, but I am confident Wren will put together a strong club. Think about how he’s done in trades this year:
Renteria = Jurrjiens/Gorkys Asciano (sp?) = Ohman/Infante minor $$ = Gotay/Norton (bad as they can be, both has won us games we don’t win without them)
The only real misfire was signing Glavine, and at the time is seemed like a good move, just didn’t work out.
By MAV
July 28, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Coach I guess it’s Bobby Cox’s fault that Hudson has to go see Dr. Andrews. I’m sure you will blame himfor just about anything, including your pathetic lonely life!
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Sorry N8, you’re not the first. I predicted several weeks ago.
But I agree with you too that the Braves better be in on the Sheets and Sabathia sweepstakes during the Winter.
I like Lowe as well.
Without Smoltz and Hudson, the Braves need a #1starter, maybe even a 2 as well.
JJ is very good, but he’s not a #1 yet.
Expect Hampton back, if healthy, and maybe Glavine as well.
So a any trade now has got to fill a hole or provide pieces that will fill holes.
By John
July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Down 9 in the 8th inning, I MIGHT consider getting Tex out of there. Be kinda silly if he tweaked his back, or got hit on the wrist by an inside fastball. (And yes…I’m knockin’ on wood as I type)
By Robert
July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Time to call up some minor leaguers and have a look-see as to whether they can hack it in the bigs
And we will learn a LOT about the makeup of the vets on the team who now face two or three rebuilding years in the near future
No time like the present to bring in new leadership
By A-ville Ranger
July 28, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Forget this season,let’s hope Tim can come back NEXT season.
By Andy
July 28, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Frenchy and James for Greinke. That’ll at least give us another sp for next year. Hopefully, we get another young starter for Tex. If we have to, I’ll take Kevin Millar at 1b. Maybe we could get Mike Jacobs. Just throwing that out there. Pitching wins, so let’s rebuild around Jurrjens and Greinke.
By Calvin
July 28, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Ok Seriously…who is piling on here? Come on….
Hudson’s MRI shows ligament damage
ATLANTA — Braves general manager Frank Wren would like to find the individual who cursed the projected starting rotation that he carried into this season. Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.
Link
By uga-brave
July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
royce ring is gonna get hurt out there.
note to royce, it is gonna take more then shaving your beard.
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
TP has been a failure as batting coach. Maybe his own unorthodox batting style wasn’t the best foundation for teaching a more traditional approach. Kinda like a rock guitarist teaching country…
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
So where do the Braves pitchers rank in terms of ERA?
By roman88
July 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
think of this, 2 hollidays, roy holiday and matt holliday, but if connor jackson comes here, make sure his agent isn’t boras
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
JEB
For Tim Hudson: The UCL - that’s the same as Moylan, Hampton, Smoltz(2000), Gonzales. They all had something in common also - TJ surgery. Man… I don’t know that I have ever seen a team have as much hard times as this team this year.
TJ is surgery to replace the UCL…so duh.
By Dadgum
July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
OUCH!!!! The Braves are a desperate bunch. We now have no experienced starters. NONE!! I have said it for months but Hudson is what you would want in a #3 starter now he is our top starter and he is gone. Glavine is no longer serviceable as a #1
By Dadgum
July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
OUCH!!!! The Braves are a desperate bunch. We now have no experienced starters. NONE!! I have said it for months but Hudson is what you would want in a #3 starter now he is our top starter and he is gone. Glavine is no longer serviceable as a #1
By RMF
July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
I do not understand why so many want to see Wren do something today. The season is over and Tex, Ohman and Kotsay (and probably others) are on the market —- Wren should milk it until 3:59 Thursday to get the best deal possible and to see how various injury/trade situations play out.
The Yanks have just announced that Posada is out for the season. They may get back in the Tex sweepstakes. If Manny does get traded, the Sox may get in. There would be nothing better than to get the Sox and Yanks involved in this which may also make the Angels more interested.
Ohman will also draw a lot of interest. Wren should work the field, generate interest and work to play teams against each other. Patience is very important in any negotiation and will be very imporant here since these trades will hopefully be the first steps in getting the Braves back in 09/ Lets trust Wren on this —- the Rentaria trade gives him the benefit of the doubt in my mind.
What a shame —- this season had so much promise.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Ring sucks. How is he still on the majors. I know it’s albert pujols but still he needs to have a 123 inning sometime. Please designate him Wren. Now Hudson is probably done for the season, if he needs surgery he better take it right know for him to at least have a chance for next year.
By Doc Holliday
July 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
I just posted something about injuries about 30 minutes ago and boooommmm,,,,,,, Hudson to visit surgery table…….
This is no coincidence………..this players clearly are no doing a good conditioning program……..
You can add AJ to that problem, thats why he was out of shape, etc.
Problem with this is that there is a big chance James will never get out of his live long injuries if they dont change something about their warm ups and conditioning, etc
Wouldnt be surprised to see at least 2 more pitchers and 2 more position player hit the DL .
By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!
July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
As always, thanks for the updates, DOB.
Hey McFann, good idea. : )
Condolences, Big E. : (
By Shamus Thacker
July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Wow, by the time Huddy rehabs and has several sore-elbow [scar tissue breaking loose] episodes, it’s mid-2010.
By Robin
July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Tom-A-Hawk: A nightmare season indeed but, just wait. I have a feeling the gods aren’t done with us yet. Something else bad is going to happen before this year is out, I can just feel it. Just when you think it can’t get any worse ………………….
Bad enough for us to realize we’re out of it at the end of July …..er May, now 2009 is looking like a wash too unless there’s a SERIOUS and I mean SERIOUS make-over. Let’s start with losing this blase’ attitude that permeates this organization. Until then ………it’s gonna be more of the same.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox will never be on the hot seat. Neither should he be. He’s earned the right to manage this team as long as he desires or until he becomes a detriment…
Bobby Cox has already become a detriment.
There is no “divine right” for managers.
Mr. Whipple manages the TP aisle better than Cox manages the Braves.
By bravos2249
July 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
Man the Braves need to have their pitchers have monthly MRI’s on their arms..TOO many arm injuries
COULD Huddy have the same issue as Glavine did/does?
By Lennie G
July 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
Is it just me or do they not make elbows like they used to back in the day???
By Flustered Fan
July 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Braves=Quitters and Losers
By h_charles
July 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Huddy possiblities: From what it sounds, either a partial or full tear of the ligament.
A partial tear: 3 months rehab, done for year.
Full tear: Done this year, done next year.
Either way, no more Huddy in 08.
By RC
July 28, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t call either guy a “stud”, but two players I’d like to see the Braves make a play at this offseason: Derek Lowe and Pat Burrell. Lowe won’t be a front-line rotation guy, but he is consistent and gets LOTS of groundballs. Burrell might cost more than the Braves are willing to pay, but if not he can provide the right-handed power bat this team DESPERATELY needs.
I also except that if he is able to return, the team reworks Smoltz’s contract (no way they pay him the option money) so that he will be a 3rd or 4th guy in the rotation for somewhere between 6-8 million. The news about Hudson is really, really bad though…if this team is going to do anything next year, he has to be healthy.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
The Yanks have just announced that Posada is out for the season.
Then the obvious trade is Corky Miller for Melky Cabrera and a player TBNL.
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
A move has to be going after this game…too much has already happened for one not too. I keep checking line-ups to see if Jackson is still in there.
By F*ck Chip Caray
July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Nice stat padding, Tex. No pressure, meaningless RBI. Enjoy where ever you endup. Braves need someone more clutch.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Here comes N8, The Man of Constant Sorrow and Coach, The Soggy Bottom Boy.
By JJMB
July 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
I thought this was an interesting article on gene doping. The next way to cheat.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Big Tex with another RBI in a “late and hopeless” situation.
Go Tex. Yes. Just Go.
By RC
July 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
All these injuries can only mean one thing:
Is VERY bad to drink Jobu’s rum……
By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)
July 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
“….Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday’s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field.”
WOW!
What you don’t think that the Braves are gonna come back in this one? It’s ONLY 12-3. Come on. Have some faith.
Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Braves should trade Ohman for an MRI technician.
By Drummerdad
July 28, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
DOB, While you’re busy running to and fro about Turner Field let me ask you something. Is Adam Laroche’s contract with the Pirates finished after this year, and, what are the chances of the Braves trying to resign him? Inquiring drummers want to know.
By S.A. Williams
July 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
I realize that we’re playing with a thin bench at the moment and “trying” to win, but at what point in a 12-3 game do you pull your prized trading chip? I’d hate to see anything happen to Tex with the injury bug in the air…
By A-ville Ranger
July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Tomas,Hampton as a Braves starter next year ? ”Thank you sir, may I have another ?”.
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
It’s in the ligament area [and] it’s more than inflammation,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday’s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field
DOB The game’s not over yet. We scored 9 in one inning against the Phils. We can do it in the 9th against the Cards… maybe tonite in my dream.
By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)
July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Hey Katz
F*** off.
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!—
There ya go!
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
If Frank still is undecided about selling he doesn’t deserve to be a GM.
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.
If I were Jair Jurrjens I would get some heavy duty voodoo amulets for protection.
By Bobby's Cox
July 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
Any word if the team’s Health Care premium has increased over the past year?
By Drummerdad
July 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, While you’re busy running to and fro about Turner Field let me ask you something. Is Adam Laroche’s contract with the Pirates finished after this year, and, what are the chances of the Braves trying to resign him? Inquiring drummers want to know.
By Dadgum
July 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Sorry my post was cut off somehow…oh never mind.
By Braves fan born in 1987
July 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?
By F*ck Chip Caray
July 28, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Glad I sold my tickets to all of the Cardinal games this week. Would not pay to see this AAA team play. Look for CC Sabathia to toss a no hitter on Saturday against this motley crew.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
ATLANTA — Braves general manager Frank Wren would like to find the individual who cursed the projected starting rotation that he carried into this season. Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.
Please stop the excuse making. PLEASE. It’s not a curse. It was stupidity.
Two 40+ year olds.
A guy in his mid 30s who has not pitched in 3 years.
Two closers who were damaged goods when they were traded for.
Another potential closer in Moylan who was abused by his manager last season to the point that an injury was inevitable
A young starter with a partially torn rotator cuff that they didn’t repair with surgery
A centerfielder who was damaged goods when he was traded for.
A team filled with old farts, young inconsistent players, and damaged goods is not cursed. It is what is. And it is a poorly constructed ball team. You get what you pay for. The run is over and has been over since 2005. Bid farewell to Bobby and start over.
No Hudson. no Smoltz, no Tex, an aging and hurting Chipper means this team will suck really bad for the forseeable future. It will take tearing it down and having the patience and courage to rebuild like Cox had from 85 to 91.
By Chippendale Dancer
July 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
…I wouldn’t call either guy a “stud”…
Oh come on. Put your lips together and give me S. Give me a T. Give me a U. Give me a D.
What’s that spell?
You go, girlfriend.
By The Goche
July 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Does anyone else think they should DL McCann?
I think that they would be absolutely stupid to let him come back in 3 or 4 days like he thinks he’ll be able to.
I don’t care if his head has stopped hurting, if he’s not feeling any effects, concussions breed more concussions. And those new concussions are usually worse. The sooner you get back out there, the greater the risk.
If he’s not dealing with post-concussion syndrome yet, just let him take another knock in the head.
I think we dodged a bulled in that it was only a mild concussion. I think that if he rests for a good while it may be like it never happened (or as close as you can get after a concussion).
There is nothing for McCann to come back for any time soon. I would probably try to keep him out for at least a couple weeks if it was my decision. But I think that if they don’t give him at least a week off they are just testing their luck, and if anything happens it will hurt Mac and it will hurt the team.
I think that this team that Mac has already given so much owe it to him to look out for him and his health, and it’s smarter for the team anyway.
By Tomas
July 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Tavares hasn’t looked that bad, except for his first outing as a braves he has been pretty solid.
By Steve from OH
July 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
JJMB:
Very interesting, to say the least. I doubt it would be a big problem, due to complexity of treatment and tons of dangers, but no doubt someone will try it (maybe Fernando Tatis is doing it now?).
By 30YrBravesFan
July 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
DB
Read a couple days ago on MLB.com that KC was interested in Frenchy. Anything to that?
Thanks for the great article.
By duh
July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Injuries were bad but in the last week this team rolled over and died on B.C. This team quit. You can’t take waiver players and make World Series team, it just won’t work. Please trade EVERYONE over 30 including Chipper. Get something while you can but don’t middle of the road this one, start over…completely
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Maybe its just me, but Julian Tavarez is better than Boyer or Ring.
By RC
July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad,
LaRoche will have one more year after this one until he is eligible for free agency.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
1987 Fan,
I was going to mention that there are Braves fans currently in high school who have never been alive in a season the Braves were playing meaningless games in July.
Until now.
By Firetheoldfool
July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Cox is the reason. No other.
By Rayman
July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?
It was much much worse…….
Trust me.
By JMar
July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
I bet we can get something a lot better than Jose Ascanio from the Cubs for Will Ohman right now.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Nice DOB. Filed the report before the game was even over… already calling it a loss… missing the miraculous 9th inning come back where the team bats around the order 3 times with Clint Sammons knocking in 9 runs in the inning.
OK. I’ll put the pipe down.
By bruce
July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Is it ok if I just cry? Hudson news is just over the top… yellow flag is nice humor, but I could just cry.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?
No son. the 80s were much, much worse. This is really bad baseball but that horror show in the 80s was some legendary stuff. We already have almost as many wins as we did in 1988. That;s the problem with this team. They can’t even be really bad. They can only be really really slightly below average. I say if you are gonna suck, then really suck.
By mitchie-san
July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Its official…that cow is bad luck. Take it down!
By McFann O
July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Well, that was absolutely no fun.
Night, all.
By matta
July 28, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Adam LaRoche isn’t a free agent until 2010. He’s arb. eligib. in 2009
By Kashi
July 28, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Maybe if Fren Wren wasn’t in Philly watching over braves players, we would have sweept Philly’s -lol. Really what the heck is wrong with our bullpen? NO matter what I was never impressed with Boyer or Ring. DOB I was wandering if there is a rule what a runner can do or can’t beating a throw on home plate. My dad and I was talking on Sunday after what happened to BMac that head on hit with helmet with full speed guy always have advantage over catcher. A baseball players do different weight trainning so the guys are not strong as football. Don’t you think that there should be rule runner can’t run into catcher but could slid to avoid tag? We are talking about a career of some young fine catcher in every team/league. We all know what happened to J Estrada and where he is right now and he was a top prospect once until got banged at plate.
My guts feeling, get power outfield hitting (trade or sign in off season), keep Tex all the way and nego. with him. Only team that I see can offer more than 20M for several year is Yankees and Red Sox. So if we offer around 20M or 18.5M but one more year + incentive then Red Sox or Yankees, Tex might opt to stay with Braves due to fan base pressure on North. If Tex is gone then we get a fine two prospecct who could be a trade bite for some other team in year or two. Keep the team together and add power outfield. Oh forgot to mention about bullpen. Please don’t except anything from Moylen or Smoltz..they are bonus if they bounce back. Get Mike Hampton for a bargain price with second year option. This guy is a warrior when healthy.
For a Chipper sake…keeep Tex, Chip is getting old and there is no better player then Tex to protect Chipper. Tex have and will save lots of games even though he is a slow starter. We only see & remember fireworks but easily forget his great defense in $20M.
By Sandro from the Biénnale
July 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Can we go ahead and get Jair Jurrjens a padded suit and 8-man security detail to make sure no anvils or pianos fall on his head? If he gets hurt too in this black hole of a year…I want to keep his arm in a glass case and only break it open in case of emergency.
By Charlie Liebrandt
July 28, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
I’d rather watch the WNBA than this crap.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Any word if the team’s Health Care premium has increased over the past year?
no. the high cost of the geriatrics they keep around has been offset by the preexisting conditions they love to trade for
By ArkyTech
July 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Everything went down hill when Chip Carey came to town…..
By Robert
July 28, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Leo Mazzone was the real force behind “the streak”
Rebuild thru 2010, hire a brand new manager and coaching staff, and contend again about 2011
By DHD
July 28, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Somewhere in the distant, I hear Dandy Don singing…Turn out the Lights, the party’s over…..
Let’s make a deal!! Get us some young studs in here and let’s see what will happen. that Marlins do it, why not us??
Good Luck, Frank.
By matta
July 28, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Sandro - good idea. Jair has already fallen down the stairs once this season.
By chase
July 28, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
What about Carl Crawford for Scott Thorman? Then we could get Chone Figgins to bat leadoff for Greg Norton and Ruben Gotay. I think we could pick up Sabathia for Carlyle and Chuck James.
Seems about right. Oh we raised the white surrender flag, today… nevermind.
Does anyone else have any dumb@ssed ideas that can build on this? Know you guys have missed me since I changed my handle to Coach Smith.
By NCBravesFan
July 28, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Sad, sad news in a really sad season. Good luck, Huddy.
Even more pathetic than the Braves’ luck is the reaction of so many bloggers to the spate of injuries. This blog has become a real nightmare in and of itself, filled with nonsensical trade scenarios and nitwittery posted by people who know nothing about the game.
DOB, I don’t know how you put up with this place right now.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
Good evening, all…
Out at ssa, and saw the score… Not a surprise at all. And Tex is officially on the market.
Something I’ve been waiting to hear and didn’t until tonight, is the strengthening and conditioning program. I seem to recall a few years ago the Mets fired their strengthening and conditioning coach after a rash of injuries to their players.
And why is it that only the ones that are producing are the ones getting hurt? (except Hampton)
I think the Braves are in for a long and painful rebuilding process. Too many holes to fill, which is eerily similar to the problems of the ’80s.
Say goodbye to: Tex, JF, KJ, Corky Miller, Hampton, Glavine, Boyer, Ring, and JoJo… all could or should be traded, sent down, released, etc… not sure what we could get for them, but much change is needed before we even think about playoffs. Hopefully by 2012 the Braves will be contenders again.
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
congrats DOB
By Chippendale Dancer
July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
I’d rather watch the WNBA than this crap
And I’d rather watch Dirty Dancing.
Patrick Swayze is an S T U D.
By rupert
July 28, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
I’d rather watch the WNBA than this crap.
your alone on that one chief
By Robin
July 28, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Well, that was absolutely no fun. - teehee, yup pretty much sucked didn’t it? Man, this is getting old but, HEY, Aug.1 is a fresh season …..almost. :(
By Braves fan born in 1987
July 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
So let’s consider the potential news that Hudson will miss most of 2009. With Smoltz’s career in limbo and his return almost certainly to be as a reliever, Glavine’s future also uncertain with a team that will find it very hard to compete, Hampton walking in a contract year… dear god, what will the rotation look like.
Jurrjens & Campillo are the only ones I can think of that are locks as of now. Do we add Morton back to the mix? Do we fast track Tommy Hanson? Do we now change our priorities for Teixeira from an MLB ready 1B to a stockpile of pitching? What chips do we still have that can be traded in the offseason? Do we part with Francoeur when his value is at an all time low? Do we trade Gonzo because we won’t have a realistic chance at competing anyways?
Very critical couple of days for the future of this team. With a rotation like that, we could fall to Nats territory.
By DesiBrave
July 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
KATZ!! I tip my cap buddy.. You are so right in what you said and thats the right way to look at. Questions should have been raised when Smoltz was doing his own spring training routine away from the rest of the team. I bet Smoltz was hurting during that time. Had they done any tests on his arm right then they would have found the issue and Smoltz would have been back from Rehab by now.
By rmf
July 28, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Agree on the 80’s —- I was here and went to a lot of games. It was much, much worse. The only good thing was that you could buy a cheap ticket and end up sitting pretty close to the front row.
This is mediocre baseball played by an injury riddled team with at least some talent in a nice stadium. The 80’s were terrible baseball played by terrible teams in a terrible stadium.
By proeye
July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
I think we need to make one thing clear: We wouldn’t be saying Tex sucks or he was a bad acquisition if the Braves were winning the division right now. It’s all relative.
You know, this season is just exasperating. It’s truly unbelievable. I’ve never seen so many injuries to so many players. Anyway, if we acquire some decent talent now and in the off season, we could be prepared to have a pretty good 2009 if…
1) We don’t write off any players like Ron Mahay. I still can’t figure this one out. $4 mil is nothing for a guy of his talent. YOU KEEP THE TALENT-NOT LET THEM WALK AWAY 2) We have any luck at all. It seems there has been ZERO luck this year. I mean ZERO. 3) With that improved luck, that means only half as many injuries. I just can’t imagine one team sustaining this many injuries two years in a row. I suppose it’s possible but come on… At least Gonzalez will be available, and Moylan will be coming back mid-season. We will have a second year from Jurrjens who I think will only get better, Hudson, Campillo, and possibly Glavine as the 4th starter, we’ll be fine for starters.
If this is going to be a lost season, then can Soriano get surgery now or figure out what the heck is wrong with this guy? We really don’t have anything to lose right now. Put him under the knife… Just figure out where to place the scalpel…
And please, pretty please, bring up those great OF’ers we’ve heard so much about. Who the heck is this Josh Anderson? ;-) He comes up, has 22 ABs then gets sent back to AAA. What’s with that?? Jason Perry gets 17 ABs and where is he?? And what about Brandon Jones? Play him! Why not? Trade Francoeur and let one of these guys take his place!
COME ON! You’ve got 2 months left, start developing these guys!!!!
By Chippendale Dancer
July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
DHD Get us some young studs in here and let’s see what will happen.
I’d LOVE to see what would happen with YOU and some young studs.
Can I bring my polaroid, girlfiend?
OOH, this blog is simply loaded with stud-lovers.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Ya know, N8, I was thinking that too … Mike Hampton might actually get an audition with this team next year.
Before the injury news, you’d have to think the rotation looked pretty solid for ‘09
Hudson Jurrjens Campillo JoJo Morton? James? Smoltz? Hanson?
If Dr. Andrews says Hudson is out all of ‘09, the calculus changes.
Wren may have to hope he has another Renteria-like trade up his sleeve and swaps a veteran position player for a young-ish pitcher. I don’t see the Braves bidding on a FA, unless it’s someone like a Lowe. If they’re not willing to commit a huge % of the payroll to Tex, they’d never do the same to a pitcher.
On the bright side, the Fightin Fish is about to beat the Muts.
By kirknga
July 28, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Jeff321
It’s just you.
No way Tavares is better than Boyer. It’s not Boyer’s fault he can’t pitch every freaking day.
By NCStateBravesFan
July 28, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Eat me Tarheel boy.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
DHD,
Agreed, Marlins doing tons more with much lower payroll. Couldn’t hurt, and might actually work!
By JJMB
July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Steve from Ohio, yeah it’s dangerous and complex, no doubt about it. But… as long as there’s big money involved…there will be a market, and it will be used.
Suppose a gene is discovered that would cause super fast ligament repair?
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah and Maine left the Mets game in the 5th with a stiff shoulder.
The Fish may win this thing yet.
By keylargo
July 28, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
woogidy
they had the Hospital all planned - plans drawn, permits pulled, contractors hired, equipment ordered, hundreds of staff members hired, specialist from around the country coming in, but they decided that a better use for the money was to hire a first baseman for 8 years.
By Jake
July 28, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Well I think the phrase it just wasn’t our year goes perfect for this team. Every time we had a little something going good someone got hurt. I love the Braves. If we trade Tex for something stupid when just him walking means we get picks that will just be the icing on the cake. Its sad that the NL East has come to this. I mean the Phillies and the Mets on top, its sad. I guess I can pull for the Marlins. There the team were most like these days. Low pay roll and everything. They are actually a good example to follow. Everybody thought they would be the worse team in the league this year after what they did this offseason, but they may do it again.
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
well we all are worried more about 2009, and the huddy news couldnt be any worst for the future..He is our ace. wake me up in 2010 then.
By AZ Braves Fan
July 28, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Can somebody answer a technical point for me? Let’s say that Tex does not get traded and doesn’t resign. OK, I get the concept of the 1st round plus sandwich picks that the Braves would get in compensation. But how exactly does the draft order of these picks get set?
I mean assuming that there have been no trades involving picks for 2009 and the Braves finish 20th out of 30, do they get the 20th pick and the 31st pick in the first round plus the sandwich, or how does that work?
By Kashi
July 28, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Yep…take the COW DOWN, its a bad LUCK for us.
By KC
July 28, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
Supes: Not a blessed thing to be positive about right now. I was at least able to feel optimistic about NEXT season, but the Hudson news has taken even that away from me. Never seen anything like this. Truly unbelievable run of tragic fortune for this team.
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Chippendale Dancer is a stud to me
By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!
July 28, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
I’d rather see the Fish win it than the Phillies or the Mets any day.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
Ummm, even if the Braves matched the big market teams offer for CC or Sheets.. No way they choose to come here. Seriously, you think these players don’t know we’ve finished in third place the last two years and resigned Cox? Sure it might be hard to find someone in the biz to talk bad about Cox.. But, make no mistake, he underachieved big time with the talent we had during the 90’s.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to entertain offers for Chipper Jones this offseason. He’s not getting any younger or healthier. He needs to go to the AL where he can DH.
And spare me the latest b.s. excuse for Chipper that he only gets hurt when he is running. At first, the injuries were blamed on left field. Then it was “freak accidents” in the field at third. Then he throws his back out while he is putting his shirt on. Another time when he’s picking up his kid. Then he hurts his oblique when he’s batting. He hurts his face in the batting cage. He hurts his legs anytime he tries to run.
Chipper is no longer an NL player. He can’t keep missing 40 and 50 games a year. Not for a NL team that wants to pretend to be a contender. Trade Chipper to an AL contender and let him DH. There are just too many ways for Chipper to get hurt. As great as he is when he is out there, he is not out there often enough. It makes the team too inconsistent. It’s time to move on. Never thought I’d say this but it’s time to trade Chipper Jones. It’s time to move on from the 14 division titles.
Chipper, Smoltz, Cox were the crutches the organization used to carry these baby braves on their backs. Unfortunately, Chipper, Smoltz and Cox are old now and need canes to walk and can’t carry the Baby Braves anymore. Wish the Baby Braves knew how to walk and talk on their own but we’re having a hard enough time getting some of these baby braves to crawl and say mama. We know at least one of them knows how to cry Papa when we put him back in the incubator
Hate to dump Chipper while he’s still productive while walking with a cane. Just don’t want to see him peeing in a bag while being pushed around the bases in a wheelchar two years from now. Not when the Braves can get some valuable prospects back for a crappy team that needs prospects.
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
Introduction tonights A-TEAM
morton—era 7.26 Bennett—era 4.26 Carlyle—era 4.28 Ring——era 7.71 Tavarez era—6.23 If only FRANCIE would pitch. we would win everyday! Wheres Boyer?
By Braves Fan Since 1886
July 28, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
I’ve been around longer than all of you - born in the same hospital as Ben Franklin, followed this team to Milwaukee and then to Atlanta.
I laid the first brick at Fulton County Stadium, and yelled at those punks from East Carolina for tearing down the goal posts at the Peach Bowl (that’s what we used to call it in the old days).
I carried the Olympic torch in 1996, and was fully aware that Richard Jewel didn’t set off that bomb. How do I know, because he and I were sharing a cigarette in front of the CNN sign right then. I’d just finished a Frosty and was about to go back in for a Gorin’s sandwich when we heard the commotion.
Anyway, I’m just here to tell you all not to lose heart. You get a third wind at around 75, so you can expect Bobby Cox to be managing well into Jason Heyward’s prime.
Bobby is great. He’s no Cornelius McGillicuddy, but hey, who is?
Okay, good night. I’ve gotta get up early and film a new Six Flags commercial tomorrow.
By chrisklob
July 28, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
AZ Braves Fan,
The Braves will receive their normal first round pick next year (unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your perspective, it will be much higher than #20).
If they do NOT trade Tex and he leaves via free agency, the Braves will receive the first round pick of that team unless that team’s pick is among the first fifteen of the draft. In that case, they will receive that team’s second round pick. They will also receive a sandwich pick, between the first and second round. I believe the sandwich picks are put in the same order that the first round picks are in. In other words, if the Braves and Mets both have sandwich picks, the Braves pick first since their record will be worse than the Mets. (I may be wrong about the last part though.)
Of course, if the Braves sign a Type A free agent from another team then they will lose their first or second round pick.
One last point, a team can not trade a future draft pick to another team. In fact, once a player is drafted and signed, he can not be traded for a year.
Confused yet?
By Andy K.
July 28, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
WOW the Arizona Diamondbacks just completely ended any chance they had of getting TEX…they say they don’t want to part with Jackson, Scherzer, or Parker…not one….hahahahaha losers….
By brian
July 28, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
despite all the blogging here, Wren himself must decide where to go from here. He needs to decide who will be the core of the team next year and in 3-5 years. The Braves need a distinct philosophy that they lost when Time Warner took over the Braves. It used to be pitching and defense and then the braves became cheap.
Hopefully Wren will decide that top notch pitching is the way to go. We have Hansen and many top flight arms coming up through the minors. Will we have 3 Hall of Famers in the rotation at the same time again? Probably not, but we can have a superb starting rotation.
My two cents worth is to build toward the time when these young arms hit the majors, which will be coincidently when Heyward probably will be ready as well. If Freeman and another position player also develop we will be in good shape. Possibly the sunset of Chipper’s career, but BMAC and Escobar should still be in their prime. I would also plan to have Lillbridge at 2B, Schafer in CF, Heyward at 1B or LF, and??? in RF (? Hernandez).
Based on that, I would try to get near major league prospects as best I can. People have mentioned the DBacks 2 pitchers - either of which would be great for Texeira. Short of something like that I would take the draft picks and build (like the brewers). Ohman should fetch something being one of the top lefty relievers on the market. If there are takers for Kelly I would move him as well and slide Smallbridge to 2B and if he is not quite ready then have Prado man the position for a year. I would also start feeling teams out as far as francoeur goes as well as his play and his attitude are concerning.
It might take a few years to rebuild but I would rather do it right than patch work here or there. Hudson will be out next year. Smoltz may or may not be ready to pitch and would likely be a reliever. Short of breaking the bank this offseason the Braves will be shorthanded next year.
The Hudson injury is just devastating
By brian
July 28, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
despite all the blogging here, Wren himself must decide where to go from here. He needs to decide who will be the core of the team next year and in 3-5 years. The Braves need a distinct philosophy that they lost when Time Warner took over the Braves. It used to be pitching and defense and then the braves became cheap.
Hopefully Wren will decide that top notch pitching is the way to go. We have Hansen and many top flight arms coming up through the minors. Will we have 3 Hall of Famers in the rotation at the same time again? Probably not, but we can have a superb starting rotation.
My two cents worth is to build toward the time when these young arms hit the majors, which will be coincidently when Heyward probably will be ready as well. If Freeman and another position player also develop we will be in good shape. Possibly the sunset of Chipper’s career, but BMAC and Escobar should still be in their prime. I would also plan to have Lillbridge at 2B, Schafer in CF, Heyward at 1B or LF, and??? in RF (? Hernandez).
Based on that, I would try to get near major league prospects as best I can. People have mentioned the DBacks 2 pitchers - either of which would be great for Texeira. Short of something like that I would take the draft picks and build (like the brewers). Ohman should fetch something being one of the top lefty relievers on the market. If there are takers for Kelly I would move him as well and slide Smallbridge to 2B and if he is not quite ready then have Prado man the position for a year. I would also start feeling teams out as far as francoeur goes as well as his play and his attitude are concerning.
It might take a few years to rebuild but I would rather do it right than patch work here or there. Hudson will be out next year. Smoltz may or may not be ready to pitch and would likely be a reliever. Short of breaking the bank this offseason the Braves will be shorthanded next year.
The Hudson injury is just devastating
By Nitram Odarp
July 28, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
If that cow comes down, it will be because McCann is bored and hungry while sitting on the bench and he wants to eat the entire cow in one sitting. McCann could do it. He’s a big boy.
Frenchy is Glory Days …. the loser washed up baseball player in the Springsteen song who won’t stop telling high school sports stories.
McCann is Glory Daze ….. the great major leaguer knocked into a hazy condition
The 1991 through 2005 Braves were Glory Days
The 2006 through 2008 and beyond Braves are Gory Daze
By TJ
July 28, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
How long are you whiners going to continue to complain about the play at the plate yesterday? It was unfortunate, but not dirty in the least! Go back and watch the replay. The only thing you could fault Victorino for is coming in low with his head, but he’s little anyway. It was just a bad concidence that McCann came over the way he did and basically put his chin right in the path of Victorino’s helmet. Not blaming McCann, just saying it was just a coicidental thing that happened. Victorino had his had down, obviously, and wasn’t even looking at him, so to say he INTENTIONALLY put his head into him is absurd. As much as I dislike the Braves, I respect McCann for the great player he is and wouldn’t wish injury on anyone.
Oh, and here’s hoping Bobby Cox stays on for another 20 years!!
By Blaine Boyer is a big tub of goo
July 28, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
The boy could pitch - if only he would throw with his belly!
By Nitram Odarp
July 28, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Tne question is often asked what would you do for a Klondike bar? The question I have for you gents is what would you do to go to a blond dike bar?
By brian
July 28, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
looks like the Rays need a right handed hitting right fielder - maybe the Braves could be a match. I would trade Frenchy for 2 AAA players - Wade Davis and Reid Brignac.
Of course it says hitting right fielder.
I am not a scout. I do not play one on TV and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn express but if the Braves could pry Mike Stanton (yes I know the name) from the Marlin organization (currently in A in Greensboro) - they should do it now. People will know his name soon. He has a sweet swing.
By Mark T.
July 28, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
The Huddy news is terrible. And after reading MLB TradeRumors.com and the D’Backs MLB page, I am not confident Tex will be going to the D’Backs for what we want. They want us to give him away pretty much. They dont want to part with Jackson, Parker or Scherzer. And we dont want Tracy or anything less than that. The Angels dont want to part with Kotchman, and we don’t want Morales. I am not a fan of Kotchman either. The Red Sox have Manny on there hands so I can’t see them trading away there grittiest player and one of their most beloved in Youkilis. So I guess it would be best to keep Tex and see where we finish up for the season.
By StingerSplash
July 28, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Should Tex and Ohman show up at the park tomorrow with their bags packed, the taxi outside, he’s blowing his horn …. How long before Ring is sent packing? The Braves are awfully patient with him. We’ve seen them give others the boot after a similar string of poor outings. Time to get as much on the dollar as the Braves can for Tex and Ohman. Red Sox might be interested in Ohman for sure. Their middle relief has not been very good this year and another lefty to go up against Abreu/Giambi/Cano and Pena/Floyd et al would help.
By Jeff321
July 28, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
No way Tavares is better than Boyer. It’s not Boyer’s fault he can’t pitch every freaking day.
Ah, sounds like a Bobby Cox issue to me. Oh wait, Boyer wasn’t that good before he pitched every day. The entire bullpen is a joke besides Gonzalez. And tell me again why Cox basically refused to use Stockman? Oh right, because we possibly could have won 10 more games, eh? I don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound very much like a manager.. more like a saboteur!
By brian
July 28, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
if the Braves could send Ohman to the Marlins (who need a left handed bullpen arm) for one higher level prospect and Mike Stanton in A Greensboro Frank Wren will have done well in my opinion
By A bemused observer
July 28, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
The reason for all the Braves injuries
Bobby Cox thought that the primary job of the conditioning coach was to keep the clubhouse air conditioner in good running order.
By AZ Braves Fan
July 28, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
chrisklob
Much appreciated. I’m tracking with you…. And that’s a really good point on the future draft picks.
Does that imply that the post-fire-sale ‘97 Marlins ended up with a whole boat load of picks in 98/99?
Oh, and the “Type A vs. Type B” free agent status seems subjective, as in who puts the offical stamp on it? But clearly Tex is among the highest caliber player and merits a Type A designation.
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 28, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
Nothing against Tex but Im excited about the upcoming trade!!!! Get the team ready for 2010 and bring back winning baseball in Atlanta (see video and remember what it was like).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IxC7FW7SMLc
By N8
July 28, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Robert
“Leo Mazzone was the real force behind “the streak””
I’m willing to bet that Baltimore fans would STRONGLY disagree with you.
Katz
Before the Braves can “entertain” offers for Chipper, they must first ask him for permission to do so. He might say yes, buy my guess is that he would say no.
Braves fan in Rockies
I agree. I think there will be some pitching to be had on the trade market this year, that falls into the same category of JJJ. By that, I mean, good enough to be in a major league rotation, but relatively un-tested.
Can Wren strike gold two off-seasons in a row? Probably not. But if Hudson is out, that’s the path that they are gonna have to go down. Because I agree with Jeff (I think he said it), that guys like CC or Sheets aren’t coming here. They want to win (along with make a ton of money), and Maddux was the last pitcher that the Braves gave a lot of money to.
A couple of weeks ago, I was all for keeping Gonzalez because he is young, cheap and under our control. But that was with the assumption that Hudson and JJJ would anchor our rotation forming a formidable 1-2 punch. IF Hudson is actually lost for the year (and I’ll suspect they’ll know by Thursday), I just might dump Gonzalez at the deadline as well.
He might actually fetch more than Ohman would due to being signed (arbitration eligible) next year, and with the experience as a closer.
That being said, it’s not a MUST to move him. Because after all, young starters (which is what we’ll have next year), need a good closer to rely on to hold the leads for them, as to not ruin their mindset.
If I’m Wren, (with the Hudson news - if he’s gonna be out next year), I dump Tex, Ohman, Gonzalez and Kotsay. If I can get ANYTHING of value in return (maybe as a package deal), I dump Francoeur too.
But that’s nothing new for me. I’m “The Man of Constant Sorrow”, so it’s not actually the first time I’ve suggested this.
By Victorino vs McCann
July 28, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
NOW WE KNOW
what happens if you fire a pineapple at a large tub of pudding.
By Craig
July 28, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Point blank - Trade Tex, Kotsay & Ohman for the best prospects possible - regardless of position. There are always plenty of solid 1Bs available. Stockpile some talent and go from there. Braves will have tons of $$ available in the offseason.
By Chop Chop
July 28, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
Huddy’s Elbow
“Come on, come on, come on, come on now. Touch me, Hammy! Can’t you see that I am not afraid?”
Hammy’s Parasite
“This is the end, my only friend, the end.”
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
well, alrighty … who wants ICE CREAM?!
By Wayne in Utah
July 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Dave is probably down in the clubhouse, or maybe he is holding up a drinking glass to the door of Frank Wren’s office. All for the sake of us poor despondent Braves fans.
When I read the news on Hudson, all I could think was “damn!”
I wonder how many days FW will let the offers pile up for Tex. We are all impatient for something to happen, but logic tells me that the longer he waits, the better the offers might get. I still think the Angels would be crazy not to go for Tex. The D’backs are in that same position. He would almost guarantee both of those teams a trip to the WS.
Kotchman would look good in a Braves uni for the next few years. Can he play third? We will eventually need someone to cover third when Chipper retires.
I really feel bad for guys like Smoltz, Glavine and Chipper. I know some are second guessing our moves last winter (Glavine and Kotsay), but we were all pretty hyped about our chances. Smoltz and Huddy, followed by Glavine, Jurrjens and James. We had JoJo, Bennett, Hampton, Morton as backups.
The BeeGee’s summed it up perfectly with their line, “How could love so right, turn out to be so wrong!”
A bullpen of Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Boyer, Acosta and Gonzo coming back mid season sure looked good in February.
And outfield of Frenchy, Kotsay and Diaz/BJones with Schafer coming at midseason was also very promising.
Ah, what might have been……
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
N8,
Can’t agree with you about Gonzo. He becomes a much more valuable commodity if he spends an entire year rebuilding his value. He has to be considered an unproven commodity so soon after TJ.
And who knows? The Braves may strike gold this offseason and surpass expectations in 2009, meaning Gonzo becomes the closer on a contender!
By A Positive Note
July 28, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Nice to see Sammons get a solid base hit today. He only needs 4 more to match Corky Miller’s output for the season.
By chrisklob
July 28, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
AZ Braves Fan, I don’t think the Marlins had an unusually high number of picks then because they traded most of their major leaguers away for kids. Had they kept them until they were all free agents they would have received those picks.
Players are determined to be Type A or Type B by the last two seasons stats (offensive stats only for position players, I believe). Type A FA’s are among the top 20% at their position while Type B’s are between 21% and 40%. I don’t believe there is any compensation for signing a player that doesn’t earn Type A or B status.
Check out these links. They’ll show you who was considered Type A and Type B after last season.
AL Elias rankings [NL Elias rankings](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2007-10-31-elias-rankings-complete_N.htm
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
It didn’t take Rosenthal long to rain on the parade.
…the Diamondbacks emerged as the apparent front-runner to land the switch-hitting first baseman…The Diamondbacks will not part with first baseman Conor Jackson…The Diamondbacks probably would not trade either of their top pitching prospects, right-hander Max Scherzer or right-hander Jarrod Parker…Right-hander Micah Owings, a pitcher the Diamondbacks offered in their discussions with the Nationals for reliever Jon Rauch, could be part of a Teixeira package…The Angels are extremely reluctant to move Casey Kotchman…The Red Sox are unlikely to trade two more years of Kevin Youkilis …The Rays could offer Carlos Pena…The D-backs would not attempt to sign Teixeira long-term, instead accepting two premium draft picks when he departs…
He sure doesn’t paint a rosey picture of what the Braves could get.
By Curse of Bob Wickman
July 28, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
“Hate to dump Chipper while he’s still productive while walking with a cane. Just don’t want to see him peeing in a bag while being pushed around the bases in a wheelchair two years from now” …. KATZ
Now that’s funny……..I don’t care who you are
By Truth Will Set You Free
July 28, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
Yes Sir Brian, The Florida Marlins(a GAME behind the Mets with a payroll equal to Manny’s salary) are going to send Stanton—now being viewed as one of the premire power prospects in the GAME—AND a high prospect to the Atlanta Braves for a lefty relief specialist!!!
Why don’t you try one like that on DUMBrowski, he would probably go for it and maybe send along Anibel Sanchez if Dumbo was still with the Fish.
Stanton for Ohlman—Unbelievable!!!
Think those punks keep reloading by being stupid?? Stanton for Ohlman—Wow!!
By N Nine
July 28, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
stingersplash How long before Ring is sent packing? The Braves are awfully patient with him. We’ve seen them give others the boot after a similar string of poor outings
he started by giving lots of runs on 1st outing. then did great for a while.holding men on base against lefties.So his era was misleading. But once he reached the 3.75 era he blewup.the time for ring is near.
By TennesseePaul
July 28, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution said on his blog Monday night that Braves GM Frank Wren “said they have deals on the table right now if they want to pull the trigger — deals the Braves are holding off on because they want to see if they can do better.”
—John Heyman, SI
So basically what he said here is, I read that whole damn article and he was merely reporting on the blog.
By A-ville Ranger
July 28, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
Some dick weed on ESPN said there is no chance The Angels are letting Kotchman go.
It seems like we may be looking at a marginal major leaguer and a prospect or two.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
I just filed a rewrite version with quotes from Huddy, if anyone who cares to hear from him (he said he was so shocked by the news, he almost thought they were joking with him)
(really, now, that’d be some black medical humor: “Sorry, Tim, but we found a torn ligament that’s going to require major reconstructive surgery… Just kidding, dude. Only minor inflammation.”)
By N8
July 28, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
In Rosenthal’s “latest” update, he states the following….
“But a lesser pitcher such as righty Billy Buckner as well as center fielder Gerardo Parra and infielder Jamie D’Antona are among the prospects who could be in play.”
Ironic that we’re looking for a 1B, and a guy named Billy Buckner (yeah, I realize the spelling is different and this guy is a pitcher), comes into play.
Brian
“It used to be pitching and defense and then the braves became cheap.”
Regardless of what you think, the Braves did not become “cheap”. Baseball is a business, and if Braves fans would have actually been ponying up the cash for tickets like they did in the mid-90’s, payroll would have NOT been reduced.
Besides, when did 90 million in payroll (if you’re NOT the Yankees or Red Sox), become “cheap”??
I would say that they (including JS), became stupid, by not dumping Andruw when they had a chance, and taking on contracts (like Hampton’s), that would hinder things down the road. Though, I don’ t think much of this is Hampton’s fault.
They’ve made BAD moves (or to be fair, with the benefit of hindsight, moves that didn’t work out), not cheap ones. Had they dumped Andruw in 2006, they would have been able to sign Glavine that off-season WITHOUT having to dump Hudson.
We DUMPED salary, by trading Renteria to get JJJ (along with Hernandez). Does that move (which improved the team - based on Renteria’s pitiful year, he would NOT have helped this sorry bunch), fall under the “cheap” category as well? What about signing an OLD Tom Glavine (a move I was for), for 8 million dollars? What kind of cheap azz team signs a 42 year old for 8 million to be their 3rd starter?
Oh. I suppose you’re mad they didn’t give Andruw 36 million for this year and next? What a bunch of cheap-skates.
It’s not about making moves that cost a bunch of money. It’s about making moves that function.
It’s essentially FACT that if we keep Tex and take the picks, they won’t be anywhere near Atlanta anytime soon.
So why not cut our losses and settle for a guy like Chad Tracy (who could fill in admirably - and relatively “cheap”), as long as the D-Backs throw in a couple of good to really good prospects, that are young and on the rise? NOBODY is gonna give us a king’s ransom (like JS gave out - on paper last year it was a LOT to give up), for a two month rental.
So Wren needs to decide if the prospects being offered are “as good” as some kids we would draft next year and WAIT for them to come around, or if he’d rather take the picks, and use the extra money to put a “band-aid” on the situation for the next couple of years.
I don’t envy the man in the next 72 or so hours. If I’m him, I swing by Sam’s Club and buy a crate of Red Bull. Because he isn’t gonna get any sleep anytime soon.
By keylargo
July 28, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this
I have one thing I want from any player traded to this team that can be controlled by the team and the player.
I want the players on the Atlanta Braves to be signed during the off season and ready to play a full season, undistracted by outside infuences.
In other words I want no players with Borassitosis ever again. EVER
The cure is never complete or without side effects.
By adam
July 28, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Why can’t the Braves just keep Tex ? I mean, it’s doubtful that Glavine and Hampton will be on the team next year, and maybe not Smoltz. So I would think the Braves could afford Tex for the next few years.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
Wayne, N8, others —
If the Braves decided to become serious sellers and really write off 2008, what other pieces might you deal either by Thursday or before Sept. 1?
N8 suggested Gonzo, which I’m not crazy about and said so in an earlier post.
How about Lillibridge? Infante? Prado? KJ? (I’m still a big KJ fan, mind you.)
Could you get anything (even a long-shot prospect) for Carlyle or Norton?
I would give a lot of guys on the 40-man a serious audition in August and September. Lerew (if he’s ready), Anderson, maybe add Flowers or the Hawaiian 1B to the 40-man and bring them up.
If there’s ever an opportunity to experiment, now may be the only time to do it.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
Hey, this homestand isn’t gonna be all bad: I just heard Jewel is singing the national anthem Thursday. Hey now.
By Taylor S
July 28, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
DOB any thought of putting Kelly back in left field? There really arnt that many great left fielders out there this off season. However we could sign Furcal for second and move kelly back to the outfield ?
By Mike
July 28, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Tennesee Paul
It is really unfortunate that all the Braves might get for Texeira is a package of Chad Tracy(can’t hit lefties), Micah Owings(one of the most overrated pitchers in the game because he can hit) and a choice between Gerardo Parra(how many athletic OF’s do we have in our system?) and Billy Buckner(back of the rotation starter). They are getting two draft picks back for crying out loud!!!
Wren really shouldn’t do it. Tracy, Owings, and Parra or Buckner are a bunch of spare parts.
Why do the Braves insist on acquiring a first baseman in this deal? It really isn’t needed here.
By Katz
July 28, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream.
The BeeGee’s summed it up perfectly with their line, “How could love so right, turn out to be so wrong!”
A BeeGee reference?!?!?!?!?!? Is KC and the Sunshine Band next? Is Wayne from Utah gonna go all Travolta on us and get some Saturday Night Fever and sing disco hits all night. A beegee reference. Oh, boy, that was cheesy.
Instead of Beegees, you should have went Fugees and said the Braves are Killing Me Softly.
Cooch loves the other Fugee classic take on a Bob Marley classic: No Woman, No Cry. He’s only kidding himself of course. Not about the woman for there is no woman. But there is much crying from the Cooch ‘cause there ain’t a woman.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, as I said earlier, you could do a lot worse than trading Tex to ‘Zona for Tracy and Micah Owings, maybe get a decent prospect thrown in by the D-backs to sweeten it.
Owings is a Georgia boy and there are baseball people who seriously believe he could be converted to 1B (or the OF) some day if the pitching doesn’t pan out. He’s that good a hitter. Not that you’d get him for that, just pointing it out.
At times, he’s been a very good pitcher. Just hasn’t put it all together yet and proven he can be a consistent winner in the big leagues.
By KRIS
July 28, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
It is absolutely hilarious to hear talk radio and this blog say ” SELL SELL SELL”-The Braves have nothing worth selling. All the contending teams are doing just fine without Tex-they don’t need him!
The Braves either drop a bomb and make a big buy or i’m done with them. frank Wren has helped destroy a legacy. if the Braves quit they are done for 5 years and liberty media is a pathetic joke
By Jolly Green Giant
July 28, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, Francoeur Dumb
By fastasballs
July 28, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
Well whatever happens in the next few days, it’s not going to be a boring time to be a Braves fan. I wouldn’t call this fun now that 2009 isn’t looking too promising, but if the Marlins can contend this year, the Braves can next year.
2009 is going to the be the sandwich year between a disappointing 2008 & a potentially productive 2010. The farm is stocked with prospects, but most are more than a year away except for Hansen, who may or may not be here next season.
Freeman & Heyward are the real deals, but both are in low A. They are tearing it up I might add, but it’s still low A. Myrtle Beach is an offensive machine, lots of good outfielders with Hernandez & Owings & position players as well.
Unless Wren just absolutely pulls some Renteria like deals I just don’t see where all of the talent is coming from for next season. There will be a lot more money to spend unlike in past seasons, but like others have said I don’t see CC or Sheets coming here. Sheets is a potential Mike Hampton so I doubt Wren will be too giddy to sign him for what he will command.
It wasn’t long ago a power bat in left field & a 1st baseman were the major concerns, now it’s rightfield, the rotation & the bullpen to go along with those.
Who knows maybe a “team” will actually form out of this mess of a season between whoever stays & whoever is brought in by trade, call up or free agency. Hopefully by 2010 a new manager will be named, because Cox just doesn’t seem to be able to get it done anymore. By that I mean winning, not stroking everyone’s ego.
I’d love to know exactly how much pull Cox has with the front office. Anyone that gets on his bad side seems to be gone very shortly. Devine(not sure if he was or not) but was never given a chance here except when he really wasn’t ready. Stockman was all but ignored while he was here. To top everything off is the decisions to keep Orr, Woodward over Escobar, & Miller is mind blowing.
As I said before for the first time since early this season started I’m getting excited to see what the Braves are going to do.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
adam,
We’ve discussed this one for many months now. For the Braves to sign Tex they’ll have to pay him $20 MM. That’s a lot of money to spend on one player uniess the payroll is much larger than $100 MM. It also limits your ability to pay younger players who reach arbitration or acquire FAs or pick up veterans in trades.
The Rockies are going to be stuck paying Todd Helton $16 MM for the next three years and their payroll is $70MM. To win with that imbalance you have to have a lot of great young players that you have to let walk when they can command decent contracts (like Holliday).
By Truth Will Set You Free
July 28, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Adam, You couldn’t sell that to Cain, Abel or the serpent.
OKAY!!! LET’S HEAR IT!! Who will be the first, maybe Dave if not too late—OKAY Here We Go——-“Hey, we didn’t lose any ground. We’re still only 7 1/2 out and Tommy will be back next month”——Okay??? Everyone feel better now?? Some of you guys make Baghdad Bob and his pronouncements seems pessimistic.
By Mr. Optimistic
July 28, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
taking tracy wouldnt be all that bad. i dont kno waht his contract is but he HAS hit 20 HR in a season. none of the others have in their entire careers. he is still in a decent age group being 29 during the 09 season.but with that said i think the braves can get more from LAA. they have the ability to resign tex and have better talent to give than zona.
By Mr. Optimistic
July 28, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
taking tracy wouldnt be all that bad. i dont kno waht his contract is but he HAS hit 20 HR in a season. none of the others have in their entire careers. he is still in a decent age group being 29 during the 09 season.but with that said i think the braves can get more from LAA. they have the ability to resign tex and have better talent to give than zona.
By AZ Braves Fan
July 28, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
chrisklob
Thanks once again. I’ve read ESPN’s primer on MLB transactions. I guess it’s time I looked at the current collective bargaining agreement to better understand the arcane nuances of MLB — in a way, this is a lot like the infield fly rule — most people know it exists but can’t explain it.
By MDBravesFan
July 28, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Dave - I already had my ice cream and now I’m going to bed and pull the covers over my head. It’s going to be a long rest of the summer. I fear “wait ‘til next year” will become a constant refrain for Braves fans for a while. So I’ll start my post-season mantra now, “Anybody but the Yankees or Muts.” Night all.
By David O'Brien
July 28, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
A writer asked Frank tonight, during the Hudson press conference in the back of the pressbox, whether the Braves could get a lot in trades now that they aren’t in position of strength. He meant because other teams know they are trying to trade players, that’s why he was suggesting they weren’t in a position of strength.
Wren did not like that and called him on it. Said, “Why would you say that.”
After the guy explained what he meant, Wren said, “I think we’re in a position of great strength, because we have the best player, and some of the best assets out there that people want. And there’s lot of competition for them. There are lots of teams that desire them.
“So I think we’re in a very good position.”…
In other words, he basically said, I’ve got your position of strength right here….
Taylor, I haven’t heard any talk of KJ back to LF, but that’s not to say it couldn’t be considered. Braves would want to see what they can get in these trades first, and see what they have left from their OF prospects, that kind of thing.
By kris
July 28, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
What a pathetic management team the Braves haves now. What once was a promising organization has now befallen to become simply a “tax writeoff” to liberty media. John Malone is a disgrace and should be thrown out of Atlanta. Giving up our best player for the cheap is unreal. You are a joke John Malone-go back to insurance or whatever you do-even Ted knew how to win-you are a freakin joke!
By BravesFanInRockies
July 28, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
Hey KRIS,
That’s a great idea. Make a big buy, finish in fourth place this year and next because you’ve blown your chance to improve in the off-season.
That’ll work!
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
N8 Good points. As much as others are pooh poohing the idea of getting Chad Tracy, he is a decent hitter, relatively cheap, and can play (not outstandingly though) 3 positions. He might be a valuable piece over the next few years.
And Micah Owings was dealing for the first couple of months of the year. Maybe McDowell could get him straigtened out. Also, can he play first or left field???
Dude has a brother in Myrtle Beach, who has come on strong the past couple of months. Has a cannon for an arm. Would having his brother possibly motivate him to rise above his present situation? Stranger things have happened.
Micah Owings might be useful next year with Huddy possibly being out for the year. Personally, I don’t want to see Glavine back, and Hampton is such a long shot. Smoltz would be welcomed back, but probably as a closer only.
As for Gonzo, I think he might bring a large bounty, if we decided to deal him. I like the dude, but if 2009 is going to be a rebuilding year, then we might be better off getting a few prospects for him. (I am not totally sold on this idea, though!)
keylargo Amen on the Boras moritorium. I would make it know that if any of my players signed with him, they would be traded at the first possible fair offer.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
ya KRIS it was frank wren that destroyed a legacy. What, all in 8, 9 months? You think he brought all these players and hampton????????
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
Actually KRIS, Houston is now attempting to do what you suggest. Let’s see how that goes, hmm?
By Chop Chop
July 29, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Mike,
Two draft picks don’t mean a whole lot if you want to win anytime soon. Every team has plenty of busts in their drafts every year. It’s better to get major league talent in return for top prospective free agents then to pin your hope on hitting the jackpot with two draft picks.
I’d take Chad Tracy and Micah Owings for Tex because they’re both young enough to give the Braves their best in their primes. I could live with that deal because I know that there are absolutely no guarantees that draft picks will ever even sniff the bigs. If the Braves add Ohman to the deal, they’ll get more (a higher-level pitching prospect would be nice) out of the D-Backs. That may be the way Frank Wren goes. It’s easier to work on one deal than two.
(I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kotsay get moved in a smaller deal, but that one should be secondary or tertiary to whatever’s going on with Tex and Ohman.)
By Katz
July 29, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Owings has a good K/9 rate and a good K/BB rate. He is only 25 years old and is from Gainesville. his brother plays in the minors for the braves. If it comes down to it, Owings is much more valuable than draft picks. I’d almost do Owings straight up for Tex. I really would. Owings does not give up that many hits or walks. He hits too many batters and gives up a little too many homers. He’s a bit of a flyball pitcher as well……. Working with McDowell might change that since McDowell does so heavily favor groundball pitchers
By Victorino vs McCann
July 29, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
I just heard Jewel is singing the national anthem Thursday…
But can she pitch?
By Robert
July 29, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
“I’m willing to bet that Baltimore fans would STRONGLY disagree with you.”
Mazzone sure helped Bedard. Besides that he didnt have anyone who was a big league pitcher and NOT a total head case.
By Interested Observer
July 29, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
Somebody should sneak down to the clubhouse tomorrow and hang a Rays jersey in Ohman’s locker.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
DOB, I’ve discounted the thought of returning KJ to the outfield up ‘til now (thinking, probably stupidly, that he might instead be considered for 1B).
But maybe the OF is the place for him. He’d be the most productive offensive player they’ve had out there all season. And you wouldn’t hear about him muffing ground balls hit to his right any more. (Or not often, anyway!)
Nice job tonight on what must have been a tough evening.
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
Yes, I can see where a lesser trade could be made. And I could see where these guys might be better than a couple of draft picks, considering the future is hard to read. But these guys don’t seem like more than what could be available on a free agent market in the offseason for similar price in dollars. An average first baseman with questionable splits, and a pitcher that has’t put it all together yet. And how long does a team need to wait before they realize that pitcher isn’t ever going to put it all together and then convert him to an MLB outfielder? Several years like St. Louis? Might as well get a draft pick.
I’m still hoping for more, but we’ll see.
By Truth Will Set You Free
July 29, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
He may have said “I got your position of strength right here”, BUT if after giving up to Texas what he did, with so little in return, IF he doesn’t get significant talent back before Boras strolls, it will be the Baseball Gods who will be saying “We got your aborted attempt at making it deep in two postseasons RIGHT HERE”
By Katz
July 29, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
“So I think we’re in a very good position.”…
Careless whisper from a careless man, A neutron dance for a neutron fan; Marionette strings are dangerous things, I thought of all the trouble they bring. An eye for an eye, a spy for a spy, Rubber bands expand in a frustrating sigh. Tell me that shes not dreaming. Shes got an ace in the hole, It doesnt have meaning. Reality used to be a friend of mine, cause complete control, I dont take too kind. Christina applegate, you gotta put me on. Guess whos piece of the cake is jack gone? She broke her wishbone and wished for a sign. I told her whispers in my heart were fine. What did she think she could do? I feel for her, I really do.
By A bemused observer
July 29, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
*Chad Tracy = Robert Fick + steroids ? *
By Mark T.
July 29, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
DOB, I understand we can do worse than what is being offered for Tex from ‘Zona but do YOU feel we can do better? Or do you feel we waited to long to decide to move him?
By keylargo
July 29, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
C Francoeur - showcases arm
1B Chipper - tall
2B BMac - can play 162 games
3B Blanco - stops doubles down the line
SS Tex - highest paid player at most important def. position.
RF Prado - ball won’t scare him so bad way out there
CF Escobar - Next AJ?
LF Kelly - anyone can change positions, right?
By KRIS
July 29, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
alright guys fair enough with the criticism-i just think We should always try to make the team better not worse-the legacy of 14 division titles is getting foggy in the mirror. time to make a splash-trading Tex aint it
If anybody thinks a team is going to give up anything remotely close to Tex in a trade? They are dreaming-we will be substantially worse
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
Ok, and not that I’m piling on or trying to get all gotcha or anything, just conversing, Rosenthal’s gloomy outlook was painted in a way that makes it sound like the only deal in town is the D-Backs. And that described deal includes a large amount of “not availables” than availables making it sound depressing.
By Desperate Measures
July 29, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
I just had a crazy idea and the Marlins may be Dumb(Or SMART) enough to do it. Offer them Texeira for Jacobs, Stanton(great 5 tool prospect in the minors—ask the scouts, they will tell you) and 2 of their best pitching prospects. Braves get a replacement 1B, guy who might go.330 with 45 knocks in 4 years, and two PREMEIRE pitching candidates. Of course can we stomach Tex in the middle of that lineup possibly leading them to 3rd World Series Crown. With them World Series Championships is what is is all about.
I have yet to determine what we are all about.
By Interested Observer
July 29, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
Owings gave up 8 ER in 2 innings tonight. Sounds like he’d fit right in.
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Kris It is clear now, that you know extremely little about baseball, free agency, or pennant races. Go back to your video games…..
By keylargo
July 29, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Someone in the early afternoon defended Tex by saying his workout regeime was set up so he would peak in the late fall during the last part of the season and the playoffs.
I want to know who that stupid jackazz is that set that program up since Tex has never made the playoffs!!
And to think all spring those hits and RBI’s were there but were in the “gestation period” waiting for Sept and Oct.
By Mac
July 29, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this
Tracy is not a good hitter. He is an ordinary hitter who plays in an extraordinary hitter’s park. If he played his home games in Atlanta he’d put up the same numbers LaRoche did.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this
Chad Tracy = Robert Fick + steroids ?bemused observer
Hey, I don’t know that Fick on ‘roids sounds so bad, actually.
By Mad Mordigan
July 29, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
Keep Tex. Trade Francoeur for Manny. Dump Ramirez and Tex on the free agent market. Both are type A free agents. Including Atlanta’s own 1st round pick, this gives the Braves five draft picks in the top fifty. Rebuild through the 2009 draft.
By Interested Observer
July 29, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this
Correction: Owings pitched 3 innings with 8 ERs. My mistake.
This is from Bowman on the mlb.com trade blog. This sounds more encouraging, could just be posturing though…
Teixeira trade talks revised According to a National League source, Diamondback fans might not want to get too excited about the possibility of landing Mark Teixeira. This source believes the Yankees, Rays and Angels are more likely to land the switch-hitting first baseman before Thursday’s Trade Deadline.
As mentioned earlier, Braves general manager Frank Wren spoke to approximately six teams on Monday about Teixeira. Because they would certainly have the funds to re-sign him on the free agent market, the Yankees might be willing to part with a higher caliber of talent.
The Diamondbacks still have the potential of providing a good fit for the Braves. But as long as they’re offering Chad Tracy, instead of Connor Jackson, Wren seems more apt to look elsewhere.
Wren also seems willing to be patient until receiving the best available offer for Teixeira, whose career splits indicate he could make a difference for a legitimate playoff contender.
In the 54 games he played after being acquired by the Braves at last year’s trade deadline, Teixeira hit .317 with 17 homers and 56 RBIs. His career statistics during the second half of the season include a .295 batting average and a .947 OPS (on-base percentage plus slugging percentage).
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this
Kris Sorry if I was harsh in my last post. Actually, if you want to make the Braves better THIS year, then you really need to understand that it will be nearly impossible to catch THREE teams that are all 6-7 games ahead of you at this point in the season, with Chipper down, Hudson down, McCann out for at least a couple of days, Glavine out, Smoltz out, Frenchy suffering, Diaz out, Soriano an unknown, Moylan gone, Acost out, etc…. Get my drift.
So, in light of those facts, and knowing that the Braves will most probably NOT offer the same $$ that other teams would for Tex, if you can get a few players that will help you for the next 3-4 years, then effectively, you are making the team better, at the expense of the rest of this season (which is shot anyway!).
Now, considering that Scott Boras’ clients always file, and almost always take the highest offer, then the only smart thing to do at this point in a lost season, is to maximize your gain for him today. You can never expect value for value with trading a rental player.
You are correct, we might be substantially worse the last two months of the year. But, we might be as equally bad without him as we are with him.
Again, sorry for the earlier slam. Sometimes my mouth (or fingers, as it were) get ahead of my brain!
Katz Hey, I lived large in that disco era! Gotta get with that “night fever” dude!
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 29, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
Jewel will be there Thursday? I shall call her Chief Knockers-homa. (in Dr Evil voice)
By keylargo
July 29, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this
DesperateMeasures
I think that idea is brilliant. I suggested it a few days ago LOL. Not the exact players and I did suggest that the Braves would pay Tex’s salary this year.
As long as it doesn’t cost the Marlins money, they will listen.
By Mark T.
July 29, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
I would imagine we can possibly bring up Anderson again, especially if we move Kotsay. He seems to be hitting pretty good in the minors and I think he would give us better defense and hustle than Blanco is. Is that someone we may look into?
By N8
July 29, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
Robert
“Mazzone sure helped Bedard. Besides that he didnt have anyone who was a big league pitcher and NOT a total head case.”
You mean like a certain HOF pitcher that used to see a sports psychologist?
Not trying to bust your ballz, but…..
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
Desperate Measures Put down the crack pipe, and go to bed. Do you think we would trade Jason Heyward for a 2 month rental of Manny Ramirez if we were in a pennant race??? (in addition to 2-3 other top prospects or big league players???)
What makes you think the Marlins would do the same with Stanton???
Dude!
Mac I would take LaRoche type numbers from Tracy (20-80-270).
Where is Robert Fick when we need him?
Interested Observer Yeah, but how many RBI’s did he get??
DOB Has any team in modern history tinkered with the idea of playing a player at first base, and then pitching him every 5th day?? Personally, I can’t remember any?
By Drummerdad
July 29, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
I’m not sure that I can remember a team going through what this team has gone through this year. There’s gotta be a pony somewhere in here amongst all this manure. As for trading with Arizona, I’d stay away from wanting Scherzer or Owings. This is my phobia, but they are both clients of Scott Boras. Owings get a new contract somewhere after this season.
I don’t get you guys who perpetually rag on Bobby Cox. Go back and study your Old Testament and you’ll find that even Moses and his guys had a very hard time making bricks without straw. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the man’s looked like the dish spinner on the Ed Sullivan Show this year. ALL OF HIS CONTINUITY IS INTERRUPTED by all of these injuries. It’s very hard to build any consistency when things are shifting from day to day. This has been a “freaky year” to say the least. Question his decisions all you want, but the people who are his bosses are either completely snowed by him or really have faith in him. Otherwise he’d be gone. If all of you Bobby haters want to fire the man, then you have to fire McGuirk, Schuerholz, and Wren for leaving Bobby there in the first place.
By Robert S
July 29, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
Just read from Mark Bowman that Wren isn’t sold on Chad Tracy (he’s insistent on Connor Jackson), and that the Angels, Rays (I thought they backed out - didn’t they?), and Yankees look like better bets for a deal, particularly the Yankees and the “higher caliber of talent” they’d have to offer. Also, they’d likely be able to afford him after the year.
But who would the Braves get back? Melky Cabrera? Phil Hughes (injured, but still gathering interest)?
Maybe Wren can really twist the D’Backs arm and get Jackson, as unlikely as that seems, keep him in left field (he’s really begun to hit since moving from 1B to LF), and also try to get AAA first baseman Jamie D’Antona, who’s hitting .367 with 17 homers in 92 games for Tuscon. It would be an act of desperation for the D’Backs to do it, but we’ve seen stranger things before……
By taylor s
July 29, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
Mlbtraderumors is saying the Dbacks are probably out on Tex. Wren asked for Scherzer Parker and Tracy. Good for him. I would have rather had the picks than their garbage. They are saying the Yankees, Rays and Angels are all in talks.
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
I reverse my position on Micah Owings, if he indeed is a Boras client.
By Chop Chop
July 29, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
Melky Cabrera is the kind of cheap outfielder that will make Braves fans long for the days of outfielders much better than Melky Cabrera.
Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy would be nice, I guess.
I just hate the Yankees and would absolutely hate for the Braves to help those sons of b*** in their attempt to win a World Series this year. I f*** hate that idea. It makes me want to reach down my throat and rip my own guts out. No, no, no, no, no.
No.
The Yankees generally screw every team they ever deal with. They never give up much of anything and always end up with the guy they want. If Wren gets screwed by the Yanks, I will hate Wren for allowing it to happen.
No, no, no, no, no.
Again, I say no.
No.
By Robert
July 29, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
I know it’s highly unlikely to happen but you know who I’d love to see in a Braves uni for one more go-round?
Greg Maddux
And how about trying to keep him around as a pitching coach when his playing days are over.
Hey, we can dream, right?
By bravos2249
July 29, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
**One thing I don’t get is even when the Braves give pay raises to players next year, to reach a 95 million payroll the Braves would STILL have around 40-45 million left over. If the Braves aren’t going to go after an OF, and have Jordan S. out there, then where is all that money going to go. Another SP would be nice, but they;d be atleast 14-15 million.
But the Braves could possibly sign Tex, an OF, and a SP, with the 40 million+.**
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Robert The nostalgia of having Maddux back is alluring, but I would like even more to see Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all go in the Hall together.
Now that would be outstanding!
By A-ville Ranger
July 29, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
Just when the team looked to be getting out from under having a big chunk of the payroll on endless DL,this happens.Of all the cruddy,crudd this year, Hudson’s injury is the worst.
I don’t fault Tim,this one is nobody’s fault.It’s just rotten stinking luck.
I suppose we shouldn’t assume the worst.It’s possible the injury won’t keep him out all of next season.On the other hand we’ve seen this type injury too many times to be very optimistic.
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
bravos2249 Personally, a 20 million per player is making way too much of a teams overall salary. We might not climb back to 90 million next year, if Glavine, Hampton and Smoltz do not return.
Personally, I would rather go for 3 10 million per year type of players. What will Pat Burrell get? Or maybe Jason Bay (still a possibility)? Could Burrell play first base? How about Derek Lowe? I don’t think CC is going to sign for less than 18 mil per. And, Ben Sheets is too much of an injury risk, although when healthy, he is awesome.
Next year, we might need to bring back 1-2 of the old pitchers for one more year, to round out the roster. Unless we go totally youth, and bring up Hanson and Redmond and Medlen.
Either way, without some serious turn in our luck, I think we should build for 2010.
Getting late, and I don’t think Frank Wren is going to pull the trigger tonight. Nite friends!
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop It would hurt me to the quick to think we helped the Stankees!
I would much rather deal with the Rays, the Angels or the D’backs. The Rays have quite a stable of good young players in AA and AAA.
They also have Dan Johnson toiling in AAA, and doing quite well, I might add.
By ccrider
July 29, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
DAVE O’BRIEN, Do you Know if the Braves have INSURANCE that would cover Hudson’s salary next season? IF so, the Braves would have more to spend on the free agent market and considering our need for 3 starting pitchers,CF,LF,1B, and bullpen help, we will need all we can get!
By jed
July 29, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
some of you are setting the bar pretty low for what we should expect to get back for tex. the criterion here isnt ‘is the deal better than draft picks?’ you’ve got several teams here for whom tex could make a huge difference in a playoff run. that’s what those teams will be trading for, a guy who’s going to take their team and push it over the top this year. wren’s holding, ostensibly, the keys to the kingdom. for which he should ask a small fortune.
By N8
July 29, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this
Good point jed.
Time will tell if anybody actually pays the fortune.
By P-Town Brave
July 29, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this
Honestly, is ANYONE here sold on Chad Tracy?!
I certainly would insist on Conor Jackson…as Mr. Wren said, we’re holding the key to the city so to speak…
Tex is by far the best available position player out there, and as far as I can tell, Ohman is the best reliever out there as well…
So yes, excuse me if I feel like we shouldn’t settle for less than Jackson or a ridiculous stack of Yankees players starting w/ either Ian Kennedy or Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and Robinson Cano…
Just imagine that haul for Tex…
Either way, I just hope we’re not disappointed w/ the so-called “best” offer.
By BosnianBaller
July 29, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this
I wish Fick was here.Good solid player that drove in 70+ RBI’s for the Braves.Always plays hard and dis-like Dusty Baker.Thats all I really want in a player.
By bravos2249
July 29, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this
Utah don’t know what you been doing out there but both Lowe and Burrell are making 10 million+….and the payroll for the Braves this year is 95 million
By roman88
July 29, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this
in a smaller deal maybe with kotsay or a reliever, torrealba is available from colorado, could be a decent backup to mac. i just don’t know about sammons making it or not, i’d be surprised if the yanks had any prospects left to deal and i’d hate to see a deal with a ny team anyway. anderson could get called back up, move kotsay out. drop corky , for the 20+ million tex would want, we could land a top notch pitcher in addition to bench players next season or a productive outfielder
By Andy K.
July 29, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
It seems that the D-Backs are the only serious contenders in the bout for Tex. In other words, this means that the front office is slowly coming to the realization that there’s no way Frank Wren sends them Tex without Conor Jackson being sent the Braves’ way. I’d expect a deal to be done as soon as tomorrow, and the Bravos sending Tex and maybe a Minor League OF to Arizona for Jackson and ether one of the two prospects. I mean, the DBacks will soon come to the realization that Jackson is not essential to their post season plans, because they’ll have Tex and then whomever they promote from their decent AAA outfield. in effect, CoJack gives us a set plan for the future of 1B, with many years, youth, and great stats.
By rupert
July 29, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
problem with some of these guys, the olney’s the rosenthals etc. is that they get their info from sources within organizations, i’m sure that DOB can vouch for the fact that the braves are one of the tightest lipped organizations in baseball, so what happens is these guys get one side of the deal a lot of the time, they hear the d backs say these guys are unavailabel, maybe they are, maybe they aren’t, or they hear teams say there is much of market for tex, that’s their stance, wren seems like he feels good about the braves position, and no matter how those guys slice it, tex is the best available bat and someone will pay for his services, it may be at the deadline but some team, probably one mentioned will come up with what the braves want, and the deal will be made, the fact that you don’t get the braves side makes it seem like a much worse situation than it is, negotiating 101 tells you to give as little or get as much as possible, you add value to players by saying you wont trade them, then in the last minute throw them in the close the deal, basic stuff, not saying that will happen, but nothing you hear from these guys who speculate is fact, and should be taken with a big grain of salt
i remember rosenthal saying last year any deal for tex would have to include salty and escobar, not sure if olney said that, but a bunch of other talking heads did, they were wrong, in fact, they were wrong about a lot of the trade, the total number of players it would take etc,
bottom line is that the in all likely hood a trade or a player in a trade could come out of nowhere, and a lot of these dudes on espn etc. have only speculation from guys in other organization and know little about what the braves are thinking
By TK
July 29, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this
I saw on the CHOP CHICK post someone said fire Pendelton and bring back Don Baylor. Maybe Don would come back if the Braves lined him up to replace Cox. I think Baylor could help Frenchy at least get back to where he was last year. I also think Baylor would inject some fire in the Braves. Know one seems to get mad when they lose. What do you think Baylor or Pete Rose would do to a water cooler if the team scored 9 runs in one ining and lost the game on a ph homerun? On the Tex issue…I say keep him until you get what you want from another team. DO NOT EVER SETTLE ON ANYTHING. You will kick yourself later for it.
By roman88
July 29, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
by the way, the owings guy was beat by maddux and in his last 8 starts he’s 0-7 with a 9.21 era, sure sports reporters have misinfo alot, but i’m glad there’s several teams making a run at tex, like hossa’s trade with pittsburgh coming outta nowhere to get him too. wait and sift through the right deal.
By deeply sad fan
July 29, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this
I grew up with this team as a kid and my devotion to the Atlanta Braves will never-ever fade—no matter how terrible the team may be. Clear and simple, they are my baseball team and noone will ever convince me otherwise.
Now I know how a Roman Centurion must have felt when he finally saw the Barbarians finally break through the unmanned walls of Rome and saw the city and the Empire crumble to pieces before his eyes.
By kev
July 29, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this
chipper on DL.
mccann out with concussion.
lost series to the phillies.
team under several games under .500.
smoltz done for the year (and possibly for good), along with glavine.
hudson out for the season.
season practically over.
is it okay to cry now?
By bravos2249
July 29, 2008 3:52 AM | Link to this
rupert
If I’m not mistaking the same guys though Tex to Atlanta was a long short also. And it happened. Which means you can never really know what’s going to happen until it does. Like the thought Atlanta wouldn’t get him and they did….they also think Atlanta won’t even offer Tex a contract if he’s not traded….I understand thoughts of him not re-signing…but not even offering him one?
They keep saying stuff on tv like that all the time, and then you read interviews from Tex saying he doesn’t want to be traded….and how the GM makes decisions now but he gets to in the offseason…and then him saying he’s always wanted to stay here, when asked about trade stuff. When he said that on tv, everyone was shocked because no one had heard that.
It’s just confusing and makes you wonder if he would re-sign, but we will probably never know.
By Tom Hanks
July 29, 2008 3:57 AM | Link to this
kev, are you crying?
ARE YOU CRYING?!
By will
July 29, 2008 4:04 AM | Link to this
the braves isaid would be in last place when the season started iam right,when the braves signed tom glavine ,and arizona got dan haren in a trade i said then the owners in colorado do not care about the braves at all you win with pitching if the braves trade tex iwill never watch this sorry a ss team again ,atlanta needs to go out and sign,acatcher ,2starting pitchers,to go with jurrens,and hampton, and campillo,listen atlanta you play the mets 9more times,you always beat the mets,the marlins 9more times,and phillies 6 ,the phillies cant beat nobody but braves,you are 7out get the picture, bring up anderson to play and run and bunt or whatever to score runs iwill be a rich man in october as i have been betting against you every day and my bank acct is doing good because this team is pathetic,you will lose 14 years in a row like you won 14 years in a row keep getting people over 40 and get rid of that piece of crap royce ring,and the famous chipper if i had a dollar for every day he has been on the dl iwould really be rich ,get pitchers that can pitch IDIOTIC WREN.
By will
July 29, 2008 4:31 AM | Link to this
WHERE IS MY BLOG AT
By will
July 29, 2008 4:31 AM | Link to this
WHERE IS MY BLOG AT
By will
July 29, 2008 4:31 AM | Link to this
WHERE IS MY BLOG AT
By Moby Grape
July 29, 2008 5:30 AM | Link to this
Also, Andruw NEVER batted in front of Chipper in the lineup - NEVER!! He was in the four hole - and the was as high as he ever hit in the batting order - everJEB
I didn’t see the original post that you are responding to so I don’t know if it was referencing a specific year, but If by NEVER you mean NEVER during his career, then you are mistaken, He had 50 PA batting first, 1026 PA second and 376 PA batting third.
By Supes
July 29, 2008 5:56 AM | Link to this
There is no crying in baseball!
Man up now, it’s been one ugly btch of a baseball season for the Braves but there is light at the end of the tunnel…and for that light…I’ll be waiting on *KC **to show you what it actually is…
We know most of our key prospects are 2-3 years away from being major league ready to compete.
By Quack Quack
July 29, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this
could it be that Cox was/is a manager of the steroids era,Cutty
I think you should go back to not posting
By Mike
July 29, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this
DOB
I think the Braves could do a lot better than Micah Owings and Chad Tracy plus a mid level prospect. I’d rather have Tracy and Parker or Scherzer. Owings is know for his hitting, but the guy is a back of the rotation starter and Tracy has a career 345 OBP for a corner infielder. It is as unspectacular a package as you can get. Not sure why the Braves feel they need a first baseman back. Take prospects like Parker back.
By Greg
July 29, 2008 6:46 AM | Link to this
Something to consider: If we finish last—which looks highly likely—those two draft picks have a lot of value. Maybe we should hold onto Tex.
By Quack Quack
July 29, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this
It’s nice to finally have ONE PERSON agree with me. It’s nice to know one person out there has the common sense to see, hey, this guy is pretty good.Goche
there have been more than one person agree with you. Nolie and I both have posted many times that he has done an excellent job, and we are not the only ones.Moby & Shaun too at least. What? you’re too stuck up to read our posts? Boy, that really hurts. ;-)
By FloridaBrave
July 29, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this
I don’t blame the D-Backs for not wanting to trade top prospects for a two-month rental and you shouldn’t either. if the Braves did it everyone here would be reaching for their razors. But I don’t get the hate for a Tracy, Owings, lesser prospect or two for Tex. That’s a lot better than two draft picks.
I know people aren’t excited about Tracy but he’s relatively young, he’s cheap, he’d be under our control for awhile, he’s versatile, and has proven to be a professional hitter. his guy has some value. Is he an ideal starting 1B? No. But we’d have no one better- and if we did- we can ease Tracy back into the role of super-utility(Which is also extremely important on a club that’s about to trade their 1B, has no LFer, and their 3B only plays 130 games a year.)
Owings has struggled lately but he’s got good stuff and is a local kid. Not that he’s struggling enough to really say this, but a change of scenery back home(and in the same organization as his brother) may be just what he needs to harness his talent.
Plus the prospects like Bucker, Parra that are being thrown around…I really like that package.
Then you can flip Ohman to the Angels or Rays for a solid piece .
This is such a huge deadline for the Braves. If Hudson is out next year, we’re done. Plain and simple. We already had our work cut out for us without probably Smoltz, Tex, Ohman, Glavine, Hampton, Kotsay, Moylan, etc…but to add Hudson, the Braves would have to start thinking about 2010.
I’m really excited though. I think this will end up being a positive for this organization. Finally the old will be filtered out in the upcoming months and years and the Braves will have a chance to really re-build this club, not just leaky rebuilds. We’ll see how it goes.
OH, BTW, LA Times is saying the Angels are starting to warm up to the idea of getting Tex and using Kotchman to get him. Time is our greatest weapon right now…
By Quack Quack
July 29, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this
This is just great 6-0. Man Wren just make the trades I can’t watch this anymore.Tomas
what? you think some trades are gonna change much of this season? A miraculous turnaround?
By Couch Tater
July 29, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
According to THE SYDNEY MORNING-HERALD 7/6/08
Dr. Ian MacDonald of the Dept. of Primary Industries said locust eggs had been laid at 900 properties in Autumn.
Did anyone think to check Moylan and Stockman?
Roger?
Bobby?
Frank?
By RDFBobby's Cox 2009
July 29, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
DOB… Reaction Please…..
Trades: Francoeur and J.Reyes— To KC—- Zack Greinke & R.Mahay
Teixiera, B.Boyer, M.Acosta, W.Timmons—- To ARZ—- Connor Jackson & Chad Qualls
B.Jones and Lillibridge—- To Pitt—- J.Bay
K. Johnson & J.Bennet— To BAL— Brian Roberts
Resignings:
MUST sign OHMAN— Give him 3 years 2.5M/Yr Liberty promised more money—— No way we get CC so Sheets is our man, his injury proneness allows us to get him, take the chance he is worth it. Resign Hampton and Smoltz- Toal of $3 M DO NOT Resign Glavine 09 Lineup 1. B. Roberts 2B 2. Y Escobar SS 3. C. Jones 3B 4. B Mcann C 5. J. Bay LF 6. C. Jackson 1B 7. J.Schaefer RF 8. G. Blanco CF
Starters: Sheets, Hudson(Hopefully), Jurjens, Greinke, Hampton/Campillo
Bullpen: Ohman, Mahay, Gonzalez, Soriano, Hampton/Campillo, Qualls, Stockman, Carlyle
I kow the Bay deal was shot down for a similar deal of what i described but they will bite when they realize its the best they can get, with ARZ include those two pitchers and make the offer to sweet….
By Jeff R
July 29, 2008 7:09 AM | Link to this
Management made a reasonable attempt to to keep the Braves competitive while rebuilding the club. It hasn’t worked. It’s time to stock up on near-ready prospects, if that can be done, through the trade process. There is some good talent on this club, and some coming up through the system.
It remains to be seen if Liberty Media will pressure management to produce a winner immediately, or if it will allow Wren, et al, the time to put this club back together so that it can be competitive over the long haul.
By cdinala
July 29, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this
Tex and Kotsay to Dodgers for Loney and Andruw (LA eats a bunch of Andruw’s salary).
By flange1
July 29, 2008 7:17 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
Terrible night for the Braves on and off the field.
I can understand how it might be hard to get up for a game with all this “good” news going around.
It will be interesting to see what FW does with Tex. I think Arizona is the place and Owings and something more will be coming back.
Also, it will be interesting to see what Ohman and maybe Kotsay brings.
We need to shift to trying to discover the best way to get the best players on the field for 2009.
We need to enjoy the young pitchers and understand they will make mistakes and have bad outings.
Need to bring up B Jones and Lillibridge and give them some ML duty and see what they can do.
While the payoffs are not in our future for 2008, we can still see what kind of team we can put on the field in 2009.
point fingers after the season…..
By Bobby's Cox
July 29, 2008 7:24 AM | Link to this
How would you like to be a Dodgers Fan?
Perhaps McCourt has cut off Colletti’s allowance. Colletti extended the budget with Jason Schmidt at $47 million, Juan Pierre at $44 million, Furcal at $39 million, Andruw Jones at $36 million, Hiroki Kuroda at $35 million and Nomar Garciaparra at $19 million.
Aside from Kuroda, those are terrible signings.
By Supes
July 29, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
I don’t expect any trades until Wednesday…maybe the Angels cave? Yes I’m aware of the big lead they have in the AL West, and so the question is “why trade” if you are the Angels…simple. For the playoffs. TEX would be a bigger power threat, and he’s a gold glover at 1B. Plus the fact that the Angels are one of the few teams that can actually RESIGN Tex after this year makes this a very possible scenario.
I don’t think the D’Backs will cave with Connor Jackson. They are in a weak a** division, and nobody else there is making moves so far.
As far as trades for the Braves with the Royals and Pirates, I don’t think such trades will happen during the season. Maybe after the WS is over, I can definitely see something with the Braves trading with other teams, but not right now.
If you are Frank Wren, you want to have a definitive word on Hudson, and you want to see what happens with TEX and Ohman (as far as what the Braves get in return, how do these players perform, etc)
No matter what happens with Hudson, I believe the Braves will be looking for a FA starter, someone who can eat up innings and keep them in games. Not sure if they’ll be able to afford Sheets, I’d love to see him pitch for the Braves (so they can avoid their 2 annual loses to the Brewers when he pitches against them) and b/c he’ll be such an upgrade over what we have right now. He can practically step in and fill John Smoltz’s spot in the rotation for forseeable future.
By Bobby's Cox
July 29, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this
good reading
they wanna rebuild in LA too, say torre wrong man for job….Comparing Wren to the mess in LA’s front office, I say the man is doing a fine job….even though he traded Devine for Kotsay.
By Scott from Fairburn
July 29, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
For all those ready to back the Brinks truck for Ben Sheets, (and I know he is having a great year) check his stats and injury history … the last three years he has thrown 150 innings or less and he has been a frequent visitor to the DL
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
Francoeur and J.Reyes— To KC—- Zack Greinke & R.Mahay
Why would KC give up a Greinke unless they receive a pitcher with the potential of Greinke and another good young player in return. I think Reyes will be a solid major league pitcher and Francoeur is going to be fine but KC isn’t giving up Greinke for them.
Teixiera, B.Boyer, M.Acosta, W.Timmons—- To ARZ—- Connor Jackson & Chad Qualls
Arizona isn’t giving up Jackson. And the Braves aren’t giving up two young, quality arms.
B.Jones and Lillibridge—- To Pitt—- J.Bay
The Pirates want more for Bay.
K. Johnson & J.Bennet— To BAL— Brian Roberts
Why would the Braves give up two players, one of them a promising young hitter, for a 30-year-old who is a free agent after 2009 and who is making $6.3 million this season. (Johnson will make $430,000 in 2008.)
The pitcher I’d like to see the Braves make a push for is Oliver Perez. He is young for a free agent and he has a great K rate, which indicates he could have some big seasons ahead. The only problem is Boras’ is his agent. Also I’m sure teams like the Yankees and Red Sox realize how good this guy can be and how much better an investment he would be than someone like Ben Sheets. The Braves probably couldn’t afford to get in a bidding war with those teams.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
Francoeur and J.Reyes— To KC—- Zack Greinke & R.Mahay
KC’s going to demand Jurrjens for Greinke; if you’re after Mahay, why not re-sign Ohman instead?
Teixiera, B.Boyer, M.Acosta, W.Timmons—- To ARZ—- Connor Jackson & Chad Qualls
That may be the kind of offer it would take to get Jackson (AZ doesn’t want to move him) but I doubt the Braves would send Boyer and Acosta. Maybe one of them with a AA or A arm, and not one of the top prospects.
B.Jones and Lillibridge—- To Pitt—- J.Bay
Yep, Shaun’s right. That’s not enough for Bay.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
The deals RDFBobby’s Cox 2009 proposed sound like moves to get rid of players he doesn’t like and replace them with players he does, rather than trades that would be a conceivable match for each side (in other words, possible).
Plus, as much as I like Buddy, he may actually have some value right now to a contender looking for a swing man or a 5th starter. I’d shop him, just to see what prospects he might bring.
By Ralph
July 29, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
To solve the First Base situation , put McCann on first, it would save his knees and the beating he is taking. As far as the Braves go, this year is over, another year, with the same predictable out come. The Brave, need a private owner, not, a corporation, with very little knowledge, of the sport, and a manager, Who, should retired 3 years ago. So, in a nut shell, the Atlanta Braves, not only have a bad year, but so far an embarrassing year. Way to many seniors and half bake players, and a lack of ambition, motivation, and determination, and adding predictable managing, and you have the Atlanta Braves. As for next year, it will be the same double talk, baloney, that the Braves are knowing for. Their idea, of a trade, is to give away two 20 year old promising players, for a 40 year old, waste-up one. The Braves, like it or not, are and will remain a stagnated team, and are fighting to finish in cellar.
By Lee in S GA
July 29, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
After seeing what’s happening with this team, maybe no trades should made. Accept the draft picks and move on. Give the young players a couple of years to develop. It appears this team may be rebuilding for 2 to 3 years anyway; who knows, they make develop quickly like the Marlins and be contenders. A surprise season would be kinda nice. This one’s sure has been one h3ll of a surprise in the wrong direction. Players like Bay are not going to turn this team into a contender with their present situation. Has he really made the Pirates a winning organization. Maybe giving up young talent is not the answer at the present time.
By DP
July 29, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
I would not be surprised if Texeira’s day-night splits would give pause to any team with World Series aspirations. Tex is in the .230’s at night this season with 7 home runs. Other than perhaps a first round game or two, the postseason is played at night.
Maybe that’s why the Braves aren’t being overwhelmed with attractive offers.
I’d rather take a deal for all prospects than some mediocre 29 year old who isn’t a legitimate starting major league first baseman. With the Hudson injury, the Braves should now be in a 3-4 year rebuilding mode. They’re closer to an expansion team than a team that can compete for the playoffs in the next couple of years.
By Jeff R
July 29, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson’s only valuable in the outfield. I would think management would have a real interest in moving him there.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Lee in S GA, the Braves are loaded with talented players between the ages of 22-25. I don’t think they are as far off as you think. I think they could contend as soon as next year. Certainly they can be a serious division title and pennant contender by 2010.
I doubt they are going to/did offer up any young, potential impact players for Bay. (Which is why a trade for Bay seems pretty unlikely.)
I think the idea is to get a guy or two in that 22-25 range with the potential to be a good major leaguer and possibly an older player or two that they can plug in at first and/or left right now. Plus, possibly a solid, young pitcher in the 22-25 range. My guess is that is Wren’s goal. If they could get a guy like Bay for some lesser prospects, fine, but I don’t think that’s his primary target.
By Salty
July 29, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Other than perhaps a first round game or two, the postseason is played at night.
West coast teams get day games…play for TV thing, you know?
By Mike
July 29, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Shaun- Do you think Chad Tracy and Micah Owings, plus a mid level prospect, is a good trade for Tex?
I find it concerning that some people think that is a good package for Tex. The Braves should take a risk and ask for a minor leaguer with high upside in return for Tex. They gave up enough minor leaguers with high upside for him. All we are asking for is one high upside prospect back.
By Jay Blaisdell
July 29, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
You put way too much blame on Tex’s shoulders for the Braves’ failure last year and this year. Sounds like part of it has to do with his giving ‘wrong’ answers to your April questions The Braves’ won-loss record since his arrival can be traced to horrid pitching, injuries, and a less than imposing lineup. Tex is a whale of a ballplayer and since the Braves will not get what a player of his caliber commands ( becuz, as you point out, the situation has changed in a year), why don’t they just keep him and vie for his services along with everyone else in the off-season? With him being a Georgie Tech guy and all, who knows?— maybe he’d sign with the Braves.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Folks, I may have found the pony. It won’t be out of the barn before 2009 (if that metaphor makes any sense).
1) If Huddy’s elbow does not require surgery, he’ll be back in 2009. The ace returns.
2) If he does need TJ, then if successful (and that’s highly likely), his sinker will probably top out at 95 rather than 92. Given his command and the movement on his pitches, he will be absolutely filthy. Cy Young caliber.
By Savannah Guy
July 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
2008 will be known as the end of an era of NL East contention for the Braves, even though we should look at 2005 as that year. Instead of beginning in ‘06 to rebuild, we’ve used bits of string, wire, band-aids and bubble gum to hold this team together while some fans lived (and still live) in denial.
Since 2005, we’ve had a team that some well-intentioned dreamers thought was bound for the playoffs and World Series. God bless the dreamers. More reasonable or seasoned fans thought, with a few lucky breaks, some help from our opposition and barring critical injuries, the Braves were possible contenders… too good to bust up but not good enough to win it all or get very far in postseason. Naturally there are some ‘fans’ that will never be content. They should be leaving the blogs pretty soon. Rebuilding will be way too much for them.
We best remember, before “looking to 2009” for the beginning of another run like the 90’s, be prepared to watch more years resembling the 70’s and 80’s first. ‘09 will look a lot more like ‘79 and ‘89 than ‘99. “He who is first will later be last”, like the man said. Then, like in ’91, when good trades are made, young players step up and consistently good pitching returns, go ahead and add a vice versa to that.
Another end-of-era just happens to coincide with our own. Without steroids, HGH and other such career lengthening potions and quick remedies, the baseball season just got what must seem about two months longer for some players, particularly the older guys that were so inclined. Just so happens, 2008 is not only the end of an era for the Braves, but also the end of a drug era for the MLB. Even with advanced therapies, vitamins, medicines and sophisticated strength/conditioning improvements, stats, records and milestones will probably continue to revert back to early 1980’s levels.
A legitimate Barry Bonds-ish milestone will come around every 50 to 75 years or perhaps a century… not every other year as it was with Bonds, McGuire and Sosa. Small ball will once again be a bigger part of the game. The little things will win, not just the 3-run homer in the eighth inning. Fundamentals will win games, seasons and championships and as always… a good starting rotation is a must.
The 14-year run was great and it would be great to start another next year, but even without a shocking return to October ball in ’09, I welcome all the changes. I’ll look forward to watching the Braves rebuild. If Wren and Liberty are to be believed in terms of spending to field a contending team, the process could take just 3-5 years. If not… hello 1980’s. Either way, I’ll be there watching, rooting for my team and focusing on the nuance of the game, the AB, the pitch, the steal and the bunt… not so much the standings. It may take some practice, but I’ll try… I’ve done this before.
Like the new non-PED MLB teams, Braves will have to think big and play small to win. Braves fans will have to think small for a while.
Go Braves.
By C Marse
July 29, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Use some imagination. We need pitching, too. Owings and Reynolds (or Chris Young) for Tex and Lilibridge.
By Stuart
July 29, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Unless the braves get Loney, Kotchman, or Jackson (or LOTS of pitching) in any deal for Texeria, they are better off keeping him for the two compensatory picks they will get in the draft. The bravea are going to lose 95 games this year - they don’t have any starting pitching - they didn’t before the injuries, but that is another story.
Since they will lose 95 games, that should give them a top 10-12 pick which, hopefully for once, they will spend some money and draft a power hitting college corner player. The organization is woefully short in the offense department on the corners. (I live in Chattanooga and watch them everytime they come through and I have yet to see a 1b or 3b that is batting over .230 for our AA team at the time I watch them in the 6 years I have been here.)
Then with the compensatory picks they will get when Tex signs with someone else, the braves can continue their tradition of drafting high school pitchers who flame out and never amount to anything or maybe again we spend money and actually pick a college pitcher who fell because he wanted too much money who actually has a chance to pitch at the major league level.
Ladies and germs, it is going to be 1980-1990 all over again. There is no help in the minors and there is not enough money to spend to patch the leaks even next year.
Huddy will have Tommy John surgery. You don’t go visit Dr. Andrews unless to get second opinions, you go to get your elbow put back together. Frenchy is lost, and KJ is not the hitter we thought. Chipper is too old and fragile. Tex is good as gone. LF is a black hole. The bullpen is a joke, Moylan hid alot of ills. Those guys out there are just bad. JoJo and Charlie are shell shocked, but at least they have hope and healthy arems. Heyward and the other guy in rome are too far away to help - if they are truly any good. Smoltz might be done. Mike Hampton is now the number 2 starter, Chuck James is back on the radar for the rotation - ARGH!!! Please tell me we have ANYONE other than that guy. Corky Miller is still on the roster. McCann is hurt. The bench is terrible. AAA is bare.
Jair and Brian are the only two good young players we have left. Yunnell and Gregor have shown flashes, but I don’t think they are impact players - they are above average at best. Yes, the empire has fallen this far. It is a sad sight.
By tkg
July 29, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Here’s a trade that could work, methinks:
Angels get: Tex, Ohman, Brandon Jones
Braves get: Kotchman, Rivera, Adenhardt
Maybe the Angels would be giving too much there … Adenhardt has had a very poor year, however, so his stock is a little lower. If Angels did this they would have to resign Tex, which would put them at a huge disadvantage in negotiations.
I just saw that the Angels are interested in Tex again, so I started thinking about what might work … Again, this may be Angels giving too much.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
What is the obsession with Casey Kotchman?
He has a 327 OBP this season and a career 337 OBP. I understand that he is 25, but he doesn’t figure to get that much better in that department. Also please note that this guy has 12 home runs through 100 games(320 PA).
I guess Casey Kotchman, Juan Rivera and a mid level prospect is all we could get from them. They won’t part with Adenhart or Walden.
It seems like NO TEAMS will part with elite, or even very good, prospects for Tex.
Sure doesn’t seem like much of a market to me.
The Braves were like the only team involved last year and we gave up our 3 top prospects, a mid level guy(Beau Jones) and a low A ball pitcher with a ton of upside(Neftali Feliz).
I’d like to think we could at least get a low a ball pitcher with a ton of upside back….Jordan Walden or Jarrod Parker.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
seems like Angles are ready to make a push for TEX! yes more offers=no TRACY
By Murphy
July 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Shuan-Oliver Perez? Ugh. he is JoJo all over again. The current Braves give us enough of a roller coaster ride each night!
By Murphy
July 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Shuan-Oliver Perez? Ugh. he is JoJo all over again. The current Braves give us enough of a roller coaster ride each night!
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Mike, I think that is a decent trade for Teixeira. I don’t see the Braves getting much more than that for a two-month rental of a Boras client. I think the minor leaguer they would get would be a guy with decent upside (rumor has it it could be any pitching prospect except Scherzer.) Don’t know about Owings. Haven’t heard his name in any of the reports by the national guys but he would make some sense. In which case, the Braves would probably have to take a “mid-level” prospect instead of a top guy.
Savannah Guy, the same things that have always won baseball games will win baseball games: getting on base/avoiding outs, gaining lots of total bases, stealing at a good rate will help and keeping the other team from doing these things. That has always been the formula for success and always will be unless they dramatically change the rules of baseball.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
tkg- Why would the Braves want Juan Rivera back? Isn’t he a free agent at the end of the year? And Kotchman is vastly overrated.
By Bust From the Past
July 29, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
To all Atlanta rooters out there too young to remember the ’70s and ’80s — these are your daddy’s Braves!
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
tkg, I think you’re on the right track with Kotchman/Rivera, but Rivera only makes sense if Braves believed they could re-sign him (he’s not going to be real expensive as a free agent, or shouldn’t be). Don’t know if Braves can get such assurances.
I spoke with an Angels writer late last night and he mentioned Rivera, asked whether Braves would be interested in him. I said 1B and OF, those are big needs (with starting pitcher moving into that major needs category, too, if Hudson is out). But they’re not looking to just plug holes this season; this season has quickly become almost irrelevant.
I really think they could work something out with Angels or D-backs in next couple days.
By Wayne in Utah
July 29, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
bravos2249 Utah don’t know what you been doing out there but both Lowe and Burrell are making 10 million+….and the payroll for the Braves this year is 95 million
Dude, I was talking about the possibility of signing these players as free agents in the off season, not trading for them now. We will have some money to spend THEN when others come off the books. Don’t be afraid to read the post in it’s context.
By Halo nation
July 29, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
If Tony Reaggins could get Mark Teixeira and 2 draft picks without giving up Brandon Wood, Nick Adenhart or Jordan Walden, then what is he waiting for?!?!?!?!
That is a steal for the Angels.
By Stuart
July 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Kotchman or Tracy are OK IF they come in a package deal with pitching and/or OF help. Connor Jackson is good enough to stand alone if the D Backs part with him. I just don’t see Rivera as a good fit with his contract situation, but I could be wrong.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
So Huddy is out and NOW starting pitching is a need. Quit thinking about 2009. Start thinking about 2010 and beyond.
So we are going to get Nick Green, Casey Kotchman and Juan Rivera for Mark Teixiera and two draft picks?
I hope Frank Wren doesn’t listen to you people.
By Tyler
July 29, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
DOB Could you see the Braves trading away more than Tex, Ohman and Kotsay? Kelly Johnson, for instance, seems very replaceable.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
With the Hudson injury, the Braves should now be in a 3-4 year rebuilding mode.DP
No, they shouldn’t.
Only teams constrained by sub-$50 mill payrolls should have to go into 3-4 year rebuilding modes. In this day and age, with the infusion of shared revenue that teams get, only teams in small markets and/or with bad stadium deals should have to hope they can compete 3-4 years down the road. That (long rebuilding cycles) doesn’t sell tickets and doesn’t interest the majority of folks in this instant-gratification society.
And, as has been pointed out by astute denizens, this is not a team devoid of young talent or money to spend this winter (probably at least $30 mill for next year’s payroll).
McCann, Escobar, Jurrjens are pieces to build around, and to a lesser extent Kelly Johnson and still, perhaps, Francoeur (hey, I’m not entirely convinced either way on him yet). And with pitchers including Hanson knocking at the door and prospects like Heyward, Schafer, Gorkys, etc., the cupboard isn’t bare.
By macdwolfpack
July 29, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
To me the only untouchables on this team right now would be McCann and Escobar. If I was GM I would even talk with Chipper about being traded. I would trade Chipper/Tex and Franceour or Kelly Johnson for key parts to a major rebuild of this team with good young players.
I know a lot of you will bash me over Chipper but players are like stocks, you can’t as a GM fall in love with a player and hold him too long that you can’t get maximum value out of him. Right now as a player with Chipper only being a 2/3 to 3/4 a year player you can’t build a championship team around a player you just simply can’t count on to be healthy anymore. You could trade Chipper,Tex,Franceour,Ohman,Kotsay, and or Johnson right now and really rebuild this team for a long and fruitful future. Seems to work real well for the Marlins who seem to be masters at knowing when to hold em (stars)and when to fold em. Wren could learn a lot from Marlins approach with Chipper.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
Career Numbers
chad tracy 68hr—.289 BA 5th year Connor Jackson 44hr—.291 BA 3rd year Casy Kotchman 31hr— .274 BA 5th year Kevin Youkilis 54hr—.286 BA 5th year James Loney 28hr—-.310 BA 3rd year * Mark Teixeira* 190HR—.286 BA 6th year
we are targeting pretty similar players. Kotchman seems to be a step behind on BA but he is improving. Who ever gets TEX its an upgrade ..I say get LONEY or ‘YOUKI’, as COX would say.
By tkg
July 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Mike, I know Kotchman isn’t an all-star, but would you rather have him and Rivera or take your chances with two draft picks later in the first round and in the sandwich round? I’m thinking the Braves know what they would be getting with both of these guys and known quantities are better than unknown, especially if the knowns aren’t all that bad.
Think about this … If the Braves get Kotchman and Rivera you get a decent 1B and and OF with a good bit of potential to fill that gaping hole in LF. Then the Braves have enough money to make a run at CC or Ben Sheets this off season — something I’m thinking they are going to have to do. I’d rather have one of those pitchers and those two position players than re-sign Tex at $17-$20 million per season. That way maybe we can get back in thick of things next year.
That’s my thinking on all of this …
By Different Take
July 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Juan Rivera is a free agent at the end of the season. Why would the Braves want him?
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Mike, yes the Braves gave up a lot for Tex but look what they got/will be getting: a full season of Teixeira plus whatever prospects, players they will get for him for however long they contribute. Contrast that to what other teams will be getting and it’s easy to understand why the Braves can’t get a “uber-prospect.”
Remember that it’s not just the players and their abilities that factor into trades but also contracts.
Regarding Kotchman, he had a .401 OBP in the minors and has a .337 OBP so far as a 25-year-old with parts of 5 seasons in the bigs. So I’d say he’s got a decent shot to post an OBP in the .340-.350 range in his prime. He doesn’t have overwhelming power but he could slug in the .460-.480 range in his best years.
Murphy, Oliver Perez has a better career K/9 rate than Jake Peavy, Carlos Zambrano, CC Sabathia, Roy Oswalt and Brandon Webb and he’s only 26. His walk and homer rates are a concern but they aren’t awful. He could breakout any time. Barring injury, some team is going to get a pretty good pitcher.
By Braves20
July 29, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Stuart - Good call in your 9:38 post. Unless we can get a legitimate first baseman like Jackson or Kotchman (both of whose numbers keep getting better every year), we pass.
Tracy would just be another fragile piece of China on our shelf - something we don’t need.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
DOB… Reaction Please…..
Trades: Francoeur and J.Reyes— To KC—- Zack Greinke & R.Mahay
Teixiera, B.Boyer, M.Acosta, W.Timmons—- To ARZ—- Connor Jackson & Chad Qualls
B.Jones and Lillibridge—- To Pitt—- J.Bay
K. Johnson & J.Bennet— To BAL— Brian Roberts
Resignings:
MUST sign OHMAN— Give him 3 years 2.5M/Yr Liberty promised more money—— No way we get CC so Sheets is our man, his injury proneness allows us to get him, take the chance he is worth it. Resign Hampton and Smoltz- Toal of $3 M DO RDF
MY REACTIONS TO YOUR trade proposals:
Francoeur and J.Reyes— To KC—- Zack Greinke & R.Mahay: NOT ENOUGH
Teixiera, B.Boyer, M.Acosta, W.Timmons—- To ARZ—- Connor Jackson & Chad Qualls: YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING
B.Jones and Lillibridge—- To Pitt—- J.Bay: NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ENOUGH
K. Johnson & J.Bennet— To BAL— Brian Roberts: I’M ASSUMING YOU’RE BEING SERIOUS. NOT EVEN IN THE BALLPARK.
MUST sign OHMAN— Give him 3 years 2.5M/Yr : THAT’S AT LEAST $1 mill per year below market value established last year by free agents of his ilk.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
To all the Kotchman lovers:
.274/.337/.426. Casey Kotchman’s career line
Why not put Kelly there? Same production.
Get prospects back for Tex. Prospects win in this day and age.
By Chase Utley
July 29, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Why does everyone on this blog for the last 2 days insist on putting the finger on me for the home plate collision that gave catcher Brian McCann his nasty headache, the other day. It wasn’t me that did it, it was my teammate Shane Victorino, so don’t go throwing any beanballs in my direction, save them for that clown Victorino!
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
JUAN RIVERIA this year 5HR—.252 BA 16rbi.zero SB—garbage throw in? WE ARE NOT FORCED TO MAKE DEAL TODAY!
By Mike
July 29, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Shaun
He is worth one “uber-prospect”. Just one. Not asking for more than that. If Frank Wren is smart, he’ll go after a guy like Nick Adenhart, Jordan Walden, Jarrod Parker or Max Scherzer. Getting one of those guys is more important that getting a first baseman with a career .337 OBP. Or a potential free agent like Juan Rivera(why is he even being discussed if he is leaving via free agency after this season).
By Stuart
July 29, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
DOB,
What is the thing with Rivera? He stole stuff from Jeter and the Yanks ran him out of town and he has had only one good year 2 above average years, and he is 30. I am not seeing the upside here.
I think this team is void of young talent. I just don’t see what you see in Yunnel. The Braves minor league system is just like a college football program who keeps getting great recruits that fail out before they play. The perception is they should be great because of all the high marks the magazines give them for recruiting, but truth is no one is left and the program struggles.
McCann is the only impact bat we have produced since Jermaine Dye. JJ came from the Tigers system. Millwood and Schmidt were the last two solid SP our system produced. Heyward and Hernandez, etc. are still a long way off and even when they get here and if they are as good as we hope, they are going to have a learning curve. This team may not be 3-4 years away, but 2009 is a lost cause.
By Stuart
July 29, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
DOB,
What is the thing with Rivera? He stole stuff from Jeter and the Yanks ran him out of town and he has had only one good year 2 above average years, and he is 30. I am not seeing the upside here.
I think this team is void of young talent. I just don’t see what you see in Yunnel. The Braves minor league system is just like a college football program who keeps getting great recruits that fail out before they play. The perception is they should be great because of all the high marks the magazines give them for recruiting, but truth is no one is left and the program struggles.
McCann is the only impact bat we have produced since Jermaine Dye. JJ came from the Tigers system. Millwood and Schmidt were the last two solid SP our system produced. Heyward and Hernandez, etc. are still a long way off and even when they get here and if they are as good as we hope, they are going to have a learning curve. This team may not be 3-4 years away, but 2009 is a lost cause.
By sri
July 29, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
DOB,
If the Braves sign a Type A free agent in the offseason (Sabathia,Sheets), a possibility if Hudson has to have surgery, would’nt the Braves lose their first round draft pick to the other team?
Thanks.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Take prospects like Parker backMike
If they’re not offering him, do you just take him anyway?
By Herschel Talker
July 29, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
DOB - When you say “NOT ENOUGH”, from whose perspective are you saying? Not enough for the Braves or not enough for the other team to make the trade?
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
DP, Yes, I second DOB. And keep in mind this team still has the fifth-best run differential in the league. That obviously doesn’t mean they’re going to win anything this year but it does mean they have talent.
If you think this franchise is in horrible shape and needs a 3-4 year rebuilding plan, you need to research some other franchises around the game. There seriously aren’t all that many outside of the major markets that are in as good a shape for next year and for the next two to four years.
By ccrider
July 29, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
DOB! I asked last night but you may have missed it. DO the Braves have insurance on Hudson for next season? His option for 2010 would probably be refused coming of Tommy John surgery and possibly reworked. Insurance would allow the Braves to sign a pitcher for next year and beyond without a commitment to Hudson. TO all those unhappy with the proposed package of Tracy, Owings and a prospect; Tracy is solid against righthanders, plays good defense and is undercontract for 2 years. A platoon right would have to be found. Owings might be fixable as a pitcher, but more important he might be our Rick Ankiel. He has great power and might be a long term solution at 1st, PLUS he might be an extra arm out of the pen ( an 8th BP pitcher that’s an advantage)). If the other prospect is Jamie D’Antonia who is a solid hitter with upside and could play left field and 3rd , we could have 3 good or better hitters that are cheap and under contract from 2 to 6 years. We could then focus most of our payroll on starting and relief pitching! That is not a bad deal.
By Where do we start?
July 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
DOB, Tell me where this year went wrong. I’ve watched almost every game, read every blog, and, honestly, nothing quite makes sense to me. The pitching has been there, much better than the bad performances in both the starting rotation and bullpen from last year.
I know the offense has been bad, but, honestly, where do you start on this club with “upgrading” key positions? Up and down the lineup - Escobar, KJ, Chipper, Tex, McCann, Kotsay, Blanco - have had pretty decent years on paper. I’ve left out Francour, but, honestly, you should be able to absorb a putrid year from one player and recover.
Besides, are we realistically ready to give up on Frenchy?? He is still way to young to do that, so I say no.
But, tell me: if this is your team, name 2-3 position players off of this team you do not want either playing full time or coming off of the bench. Last year, I can only think of one - Andruw Jones - and we did a really good job of revamping the bullpen when it was obvious that was the problem with the team. If the problem is the offense, tell me how trading Tex for Kotchman and Rivera is the long term big fix? Rivera is batting .252 with 5 home runs and 16 RBIs? WTF - I’d rather have Frenchy’s .239 with 9 homers and 45 RBIs. Plus, Kotchman < Tex.
If we started with that lineup coming out of spring training VS. the one we have now, or we not FURTHER BEHIND IN THE STANDINGS????
By Where do we start?
July 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
DOB, Tell me where this year went wrong. I’ve watched almost every game, read every blog, and, honestly, nothing quite makes sense to me. The pitching has been there, much better than the bad performances in both the starting rotation and bullpen from last year.
I know the offense has been bad, but, honestly, where do you start on this club with “upgrading” key positions? Up and down the lineup - Escobar, KJ, Chipper, Tex, McCann, Kotsay, Blanco - have had pretty decent years on paper. I’ve left out Francour, but, honestly, you should be able to absorb a putrid year from one player and recover.
Besides, are we realistically ready to give up on Frenchy?? He is still way to young to do that, so I say no.
But, tell me: if this is your team, name 2-3 position players off of this team you do not want either playing full time or coming off of the bench. Last year, I can only think of one - Andruw Jones - and we did a really good job of revamping the bullpen when it was obvious that was the problem with the team. If the problem is the offense, tell me how trading Tex for Kotchman and Rivera is the long term big fix? Rivera is batting .252 with 5 home runs and 16 RBIs? WTF - I’d rather have Frenchy’s .239 with 9 homers and 45 RBIs. Plus, Kotchman < Tex.
If we started with that lineup coming out of spring training VS. the one we have now, or we not FURTHER BEHIND IN THE STANDINGS????
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
This waiting on Tex is killing me.. I’m ready to get our new puzzle pieces and give the young guys some work.. Call up Hanson let him see what he can do at the Major League level.. Get him ready for next year…
By Taylor s
July 29, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Rivera is a pending free agent… But resigning him shouldnt be that big of an issue. I imagine 3 years 21 million would be in the ballpark. Am I way off base here DOB? My only question is do we want to sign an outfielder long term with Heyward, Schafer, Gorkys, and maybe even Cody Johnson on the way?
By NCBravesFan
July 29, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
I suspect the Braves are thinking along the lines of 2010 in their planning. Wren’s comment to Carroll over the weekend about the Braves’ situation versus Milwaukee was pretty telling. He basically said it was nice that Milwaukee was in a position to go for it in trades because they were so close - and he said the Braves were not in that position.
Too many holes, too many questions. Too many young pitchers who need to get experience.
Unless the Braves are willing to make a big splash in the FA market (which has not been their pattern), I think they’ll be re-tooling in the upcoming year with thoughts of contending for a title in 2010.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
macdwolfpack, the problem is I don’t think a team would give up fair value for Chipper because of his age and injury history. Plus, there is the fact the Braves aren’t going to trade the face of the franchise and the type hitter they want their young guys to emulate.
I read an interesting blog post a week or so ago by Paul DePodesta, who now works for the Padres and has his own blog. He talked about the fact that he considers no player “untouchable” but that they wouldn’t actively trade Brian Giles because they want their young hitters to take his approach. So if he’s still productive at all, they’ll keep him unless they are blown away with an offer.
By TommyP
July 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Lots of ideas on here, some extremely wild and others pretty sound.
Question for those enamored with the Kotchman/Rivera package? Rivera is 30 and has never been a regular starting outfielder. I believe he got close to 500 at bats one year but that’s it. So why, all of a sudden, is this guy the answer to left field? Just asking.
I am thinking Arizona is the most likely destination.
I have seen lots of names thrown around but don’t discount Yusmeiro Petit. Still extremely young arm that is ready for a rotation spot.
If they’re going to get a Tracy, I would bet they’re trying for Petit over Owings. Two guys they could plug in right away.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
MUST sign OHMAN— Give him 3 years 2.5M/Yr : THAT’S AT LEAST $1 mill per year below market value established last year by free agents of his ilk.
wait a minute didnt Mahay sign for big contract? Soriano at least 3m? ohman would want more than 2.5 or 3.5—good relievers who pitch alot are expensive in this inflated world (thx yankees)
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Herschel Talker: In those instances, not enough given up by Braves to make any of those trades, in my opinion…
CCrider, I don’t know if Braves are insured on Hudson’s contract for next season, but I would have to believe they are. I’d expect they re-upped insurance policy on him after the first three years (usually the extent of policies offered these days by insurers), since he didn’t have any major injuries in his first three years with Braves. Don’t know why they would’ve been denied.
By rammerjammer
July 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
We should assume Hudson is gone for 2009, and that changes our needs. On the offensive side, our only need is for a first baseman…providing BC moves Kelly to LF and Prado takes over 2B. If he keeps KJ at 2B, then we need an outfielder, too (assuming Francoeur rebounds).
Pitching is another story. You’ve got Jurrjens and Campillo, and a LOT of question marks.
Whatever pitcher Frank can get in the Tex deal will only be good enough to be part of the mix with Reyes, Morton, etc.
So, with no #1 starter, Braves will have to cough up big for a free agent pitcher, right? I don’t see any other option.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
DOB
If they’re not offering him, do you just take him anyway?
Then move on. Or add Ohman to the mix. At this point, you look for potential over average players like Tracy and Owings.
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Stuart—
I think this team is void of young talent. I just don’t see what you see in Yunnel.
Humm young guy, great defense, rocket arm, gamer attitude, can hit the daylights out of the ball, aggressive, decent speed, knows how to play the game… what is not to like?
By Katz
July 29, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
What is the thing with Rivera? He stole stuff from Jeter and the Yanks ran him out of town
That was Ruben Rivera who stole Jeter’s stuff. DOB is talking about Juan Rivera. Two different guys.
By P. Rose
July 29, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
It’s a Hard Trade’s A-Gonna Fall
Oh where have you gone, division run? And where have you gone, my summer of fun? I seen 6-run blown leads and the fans’ teeth a-gnashin’ I seen bloggers a-moanin and manager bashin’ I seen thousands of seats that were empty as oceans I seen millionaire ballplayers goin’ through the motions
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, It’s a hard trade’s a-gonna fall
Oh where have you gone, my season of hope? And where have you gone, my ability to cope?
I seen injuries to Hampton I didn’t know existed I seen Big Mac unconscious his legs all a-twisted Seen a game-winnin’ popup a-dropped like bad habits Seen career-ending injuries mountin’ like rabbits I seen Cardinal fans in the south celebratin’ I seen Braves fans, until next year they’ll be a-waitin’ I seen preseason hopes that were just an illusion I seen Bobby Cox scratchin’ his head in confusion
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, It’s a hard trade’s a-gonna fall
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
This team may not be 3-4 years away, but 2009 is a lost cause.Stuart
We’ll agree to disagree….
Taylor, I don’t think he’d require a three-year deal, given recent performance. I wouldn’t give him a three year. I’d try for one plus an option, that way you could be ready for the arrival of the big prospects….
SRI: yes, Braves would give up first-round pick if they sign an elite free-agent starter.
By Richie Rich
July 29, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
I found this on the Diamondbacks web site:
As for Teixeira, the D-Backs have had discussions with Atlanta for several days but have not found enough common ground to make a deal work.
After the D-Backs inquired about Teixeira earlier this month, Atlanta came back with an offer that the D-Backs dismissed out of hand — Chad Tracy and minor league right-handers Max Scherzer and Jarrod Parker, according to two sources. Atlanta also brought up Conor Jackson.
At least their after 2 pitcher’s, I really do not like Tracy at all.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
I dont see any trades…………..What are you waiting for wren???
Shaun
What are your thoughts about the braves having soooo many injuries? I mean, do you believe it was bad luck? One think is bad luck…………but for it to happen over and over again?
I posted the following last night:
List of injuried players:
MOYLAN, GLAVINE, BENNETT, BOYER, ACOSTA, HAMPTON, CHIPPER, KJ, JF, INFANTE, DIAZ, SMOLTZ, CAMPILLO, KOTSAY, PRADO, MCCAN, JURRJENS (17guys).
Thats insane………only position players not injured this season……..BLANCO, TEX (and I think TEX lost a few games or innings because of injury).
By bgvt
July 29, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Stuart —
Here is what I see in Yunel Escobar. He is pretty young (turns 26 this year) and has excellent range at SS. His OBP is .357. If you compare this to other SS’s in MLB this year who have played more than 50 games, this OBP ranks seventh in the majors. He isn’t Hanley Ramirez or even Jose Reyes but he is an above average MLB SS in his second year in the majors.
If you compare his offensive stats this year with Derek Jeter’s stats this year, it is hard to tell them apart. Of course, Jeter is starting to show his age so the comparison isn’t perfect.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
McCann is the only impact bat we have produced since Jermaine Dye.
Andruw Jones and Rafael Furcal both made a bigger impact than Jermaine Dye. Seriously? Dye is the best example you can think of?
By Taylor S
July 29, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Unless we are getting alot of other pieces Tracy should not be our target. In all honesty I believe Owings could be a better ML first basemen. Also I assure Rivera would lead our current outfield in home runs.
By Frank
July 29, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Does anyone know what the Braves magic number is?
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
RE: Kotchman
IMO Kotchman has regressed in the majors because he plays for the Angels, a team that does not value OBP at the major league level. His OBP in the minors was .401. (In fact, his career minor league totals compare favorably to Chipper’s.)
Tell a kid like that to start hacking at pretty much anything near the strike zone and it’s little wonder he’s provided no better than average production. He’s a developing hitter, and if he were moved to a team that appreciates patience he should put up killer numbers.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Now you could add Hudson to that list…………that means 18 key players have been injured for the braves……….thats unheard of………this is not bad luck………it is bad workout and bad management. PERIOD.
If you think managers and coaches have nothing to do with injuries………just check on the muts………..when randolph was there………..their team was like ours, one injury after another……..now that manuel is there……….the only guy Ive heard of that is having any problem is Wagner and apparently is not that bad.
By Dave in Arizona
July 29, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Terrific. Trade Tex to the freaking Snakes, who I loathe and despise because I live in their midst. They are an arrogant, boastful team who treats their fans like crap. They play their games in a drug store. The hot dogs are better sold from carts outside the stadium.
The Braves play like they are on Prozac. Any new player will be dosed within a couple weeks. But my big gripe is with the puffball AJC who is always playing lapdog to Booby and his court of jesters.
The AJC is currently running a list of ten trades to vote on. And they left out the one that wrecked the franchise, the one that brought us the “Curse of Quilvio,” and will sentence the Braves to a century of doom.
I remember right after our last world series when JS made that wretched, insane, gooberish trade of Klesko and Boone with SD, for Quilvio Veras, Reggie Sanders, and Wally Joyner. I screamed bloody murder at the time, and said the Braves are done. That’s when we started settling for division titles. It was bad enough losing World Series, but then we started getting clobbered by the Cubs and Astros too.
Why don’t we get to rank that trade AJC? It was the all time killer. Stop covering for them. Give us some real journalism.
By The Goche
July 29, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
yes, Braves would give up first-round pick if they sign an elite free-agent starter.DOB
actually, aren’t the Braves in line to get a protected pick this year the way things are going?
We are currently 21st in the majors in terms of record, aren’t the top 15 picks protected from compensation, so the best we’d give up is our second rounder?
By Braves Fan Since 1886
July 29, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Frank
Start with the number 163.
Subtract Braves’ losses and the competition’s win total.
There you have your magic number.
You can see what it will take for each team to eliminate the Braves.
By Taylor S
July 29, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Some one on another blog claims the Yankees are offering Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy and a prospect for Tex and Kotsay. While this is probably pure speculation would we have any interest in Melky ? Im not sure how much of an upgrade he would be over Blanco and he would be.
By The Goche
July 29, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Quack Quack
I most heartily apologize. I believe you will agree that it is much less stuck up and much more lazy.
You have caught me, 90% of the time I just do “Find: ‘goche’” in my browser and see if someone has directly responded to me.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
im still in disbelief that huddy might have TOMMY JOHN. we have been hurt so much this year that this hasnt fully settled.Huddy our ace, could be gone for a while..get well huddy :(
By Murphy
July 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
Great for him! Call me when you can actually put him in that elite caliber of pitchers…ie, when he can actually pitch with enough control in a game to game situation to make the ONE stat you mention worth its weight.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 29, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
This P. Rose guy is a songwriter that bears watching. I love how he takes Braves suffering and turns it into pure poetry!
I seen Big Mac unconscious his legs all a-twisted
Lines like that just sear your soul, man!
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
*Taylor s *
I just keep hearing Braves have tons of young talent on the way……….Could you tell where does it goes? Cause it sure aint atlanta……….
Right now, all I can see is Yunel and Mc. The rest are failures or not ready.
Id answer to you………..yes………we need to get an OF and pay big money………….same for SP specially now that Hudson is gone (there is a big chance he wont pitch in 2009).
And Id throw JF in any deal, we need to stay away from him, he is not going to do any better next year, Im 90% sure……..I wouldnt take the risk, trade him now, before his anly trade value is something like JF for AJ straight up.
By The Bright Side
July 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Cheer up, guys! Huddy’s only facing Tommy John surgery. At least it’s not Lou Gehrig’s disease.
By Lee
July 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
DOB
Teams with top 15 picks can’t lose their first-round pick as compensation. They would give away their second pick. It looking like the Braves will pick somewhere in the 8-12 range unless they make a huge run over the next two months.
With the way the free agent market for pitchers usually goes, I think Wren will look to aquire a pitcher through a trade if possible.
By Thrillhouse44
July 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
If you think managers and coaches have nothing to do with injuries………just check on the muts………..when randolph was there………..their team was like ours, one injury after another……..now that manuel is there……….the only guy Ive heard of that is having any problem is Wagner and apparently is not that bad. (I assume everyone knows the source of this quote given all …’s)
Are you serious? In just over a month Manuel has the Muts on some kind of superb conditioning program that has magically erased all of their injuries? You don’t get in shape in just over a month. Also, if Manuel is such a conditioning stud, why didn’t he change their program while Willie was around? I agree that conditioning is a big part of preventing injuries, I just disagree that Manuel is responsible for the Mets turn of fortunes in the injury department.
By The Goche
July 29, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Man, I’d love to keep Ohman, but it sounds like with all the interest in him we ought to be able to get a pretty awesome deal as far as deals for soon to be free agent relievers go. Too good to pass up on as much as I like him.
Maybe in a dream world we could trade him then resign him (probably Type B, so it wouldn’t cost us any picks), assuming he costs less then Mahay did. If he cost more than 3 mill a year that’s kind of ridiculous, but if not, I want to try to get him back.
But that is influenced by the fact that he seems real cool (in addition to being a good reliever).
By 57Braves
July 29, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
“Just say no” to Chad Tracy. Arizona needs to include CJack. Too bad that Arizona doesn’t want to include CJack, we don’t really want to give up Tex either. If no CJack, no Tex as D’Back.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Mike, you are ignoring what Kotchman did in the minors and his age. So Kotchman’s production is going to be better than his major league number so far indicate.
He is worth one “uber-prospect”. Just one. Not asking for more than that. If Frank Wren is smart, he’ll go after a guy like Nick Adenhart, Jordan Walden, Jarrod Parker or Max Scherzer. Getting one of those guys is more important that getting a first baseman with a career .337 OBP. Or a potential free agent like Juan Rivera(why is he even being discussed if he is leaving via free agency after this season).
Tex is not going to bring in an “uber-prospect” with two months left on his contract, so therefore he’s not worth it. Doesn’t matter what you think he’s worth, only what he’s worth to other MLB teams.
And again, Kotchman isn’t likely to post a .337 OBP if he plays everyday for the next several years. That .337 is what he’s done prior to age 25 only in the majors. That’s not what he’s likely to do.
Regarding Rivera, I think that’s just a name that came up on here. Who knows if that’s a name being discussed.
Plus, it won’t just be Kotchman. The deal may center around Kotchman but the Braves I’m sure will get at least one other player under contract past this season; not just Kotchman and Rivera.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Melky’s a minor gamble and probably worth taking if Kennedy’s in the deal.
Melky has not yet turned 24, had a better minor league career than Francouer (including a big-time 2006), and has put up ML numbers slightly better than those of Blanco or Kotsay.
At a minimum, I think he’s an upgrade over Gregor or Z-Man. It’s also not at all a reach to think he could be a good deal better given regular PT — 15 HR, 35 2B, 20+ steals, .350 OBP.
By Original Voice of Reason
July 29, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
On Juan Rivera: The Halos have a logjam in their outfield, and Rivera has played in only 47 games this season. However, he is batting .339 (20-for-59) with five home runs and 13 RBI while starting 18 of the Angels’ last 24 games. Also, he extended his hitting streak to a career-high 11 games last night. He’s a career .288 right-handed hitter, who hit 23 HR’s in 2006. He plays both LF and RF. He turned 30 on July 3. He broke his leg in the Venezuelan winter league prior to the 2007 season and missed most of that season recovering, returning in September and playing in 14 games. He’s making $2.025M this year, and is a FA after this season. His agent is is Diego Bentz of SFX, NOT Scott Boras. The possibility could exist for him to be more than just a 2 month Brave.
By TheAntiMe
July 29, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
If Frank Wren is even thinking about making a trade to get 1 decent major league player in exchange for 4 Braves minor league prospects then he should be asked to leave the state of Georgia, forever.
As much as I hate it, this years Braves team has no chance of even playing .500 baseball this year and is more than a couple of pitchers and a couple of position players away to even dream about making the playoffs this year. The sooner they realize this then the sooner the Braves can rebuild and once again have a team that can compete for the championship every year.
Hopefully, Wren is looking to add high-potential prospects to the Braves as opposed to selling the future by trading 3 or 4 prospects for a chance to be mediocre, at best, for the present and maybe the next year or two.
By P. Rose
July 29, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
I Wanna Show My Hand
by Frank Wren
*Oh yeah I’ll tell you something
Schuerholz can’t understand
When I’m tradin’ something
I wanna show my hand!
I wanna show my hand, I wanna show my hand
Oh please say to me
You want a first base man
And please say to me
You’ll let me show my hand
I wanna show my hand, I wanna show my hand
I when I’ve traded I’ll feel happy inside
‘Cause ‘til I’ve traded, my intentions
I can’t hide! I can’t hide! I can’t hide!
Yeah I’ve got Mark Teixeira
You need a first base man
I’ll trade you Mark Teixeira
I’m gonna show my hand!
I wanna show my hand, I wanna show my hand
I wanna show my hand!*
By Taylor S
July 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday…
I agree we need an outfielder but is Cabrera that much of any upgrade? He isnt going to hit for much power at all. Unfortunately the outfield market is not great this offseason. Maybe we can get Brandon Moss for Will Ohman and plug him into left field. He will hit for some power, more than Melky any way. And he is a local kid and we all know the Braves love that.
By Bubdylan
July 29, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
P. Rose, your best work to date. Legitimately gifted, IMO.
By Gone Viral
July 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
DOB, do you think there is anything to the Frenchy/KC trade rumors?
By Mike
July 29, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Shaun
If they can’t get that “uber prospect”, then they should keep Tex. Take the draft picks at the end of the year. Maybe they can get Mike Jacobs for Will Ohman. There is your first baseman with a 320 OBP.
By P-Town Brave
July 29, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
At this point, if we’re needing a 1b in return, I’m settling for CoJack, Loney, or Pena…
Sorry guys, I’m just not sold on Kotchman…that being said, if we strike a deal w/ the Angels, I feel like they should have to throw in more…like something that starts w/ him and continues w/ Arredondo, Rivera, and either Adenhardt or Moseley.
With the other guys, I believe it would just take another ML player or prospect…I mean I’d love to have both Loney and Kemp from LA, but I don’t see that happening w/o us giving more.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Mike, TheAntiMe, Taylor S, et al,
Because the Braves have conceded 2008 hardly means they can’t rebuild for ‘09 and beyond, esp. with the payroll savings that will come at the end of this season.
The Braves may not get the value you think they should for Tex. But the downside of taking draft picks is that you have to sign them to several million bucks in bonuses and you will get no benefit from them in the majors for 3 years or more.
The Braves, generally speaking, don’t draft college players, and those are the guys who can help you pretty quickly.
So if you can immediately take advantage of players that have developed in someone else’s system, why not?
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Mike, do you think the Marlins, fighting for first place, would give up a 1B who has 22 homers and 60 RBIs and is under contractual control and affordable for at least couple more seasons, for a two-month rental lefty?
By Run Heap Run!
July 29, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
I suppose I can stop running to check the site every morning when I get up and every chance I get here at work…its going to be down to the wire on July 31st if at all, right?
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
Dont look now, but we might have are CF problems solved…….Blanco has been pretty solid for a guy as young as him and with no experience. He knows how to play the game, covers lost of ground, has lots of speed. Doesnt makes mistakes running the bases. He is patient at the plate and knows his job is to get on base. He bunts very very well something a leadoff man needs to know. Id keep him for good and consider him our everyday CF for next season…………he is cheap and he is getting on base…..very aggressive and patient at the same time………thats not common these days. I would expend good money on a LF or RF or both if the opportunity shows up.
Blanco is a guy like otis nixon and he could get to a point like marquis Grissom……….
I would also agree that moving KJ to LF and bringing Lilly to play 2B are not bad moves. Lilly could bat 8th. Defense would be rock solid up the middle, not to say whole infield cause we dont know who will be our 1B.
That move would give up lots of speed, having 2 guys capable of stealing.
Then I would send JF packing and let BJ take his place. Schafer or Anderson as 4th OF. Maybe matt……..but I think at this point he is expendable.
Next year Mc Cann, Chipper, Yunel, KJ and the 1B we gett could be considered our veterans………..Blanco with 1 year under his belt. Anderson I think is ready for the show also…….. We have money to get a great 1B and a great RF……….and an Ace………..let the rest be covered by what we already have………
About WILL OHMAN: if he leaves………just let it be………..we still have Gonzo, Soriano and Moylan. We can find another lefty somewhere……..its not the end of the word.
By JJM
July 29, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
give rivira everyday playing time and the guy is going to hit 20+ hrs and hit for for a pretty good avg - i think he would be a good throw in only if they can work out an ext right away though .
By Mike
July 29, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Do you think Kotchman is going to show that much more power?
I sure don’t. His OBP skills are also questionable.
And by the way, don’t you think this team needs to focus on pitching instead of a first baseman?
Can’t we get a freaking first baseman through trade this offseason?
Like I said, I’ll take a chance on a guy like Adenhart, who has ace potential stuff. There is a reason LA wants to deal Kotchman for Tex. They know.
Angels fans would be ecstatic if they can deal Rivera, Kotchman, and a mid level prospect(O’Day or Nick Green) for Tex.
That is a great trade for the Angels.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Lets send JF and TEX for Loney and Kemp
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Mike Jacobs???
We are trying to get better here………..give me a break.
4:1 K:BB ratio? no thanks, been there before.
By Original Jon
July 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
I just read that the Dodgers are calling around for a shortstop. Lets trade them Tex and Lil’ Bridge for Loney and Clayton Kershaw. What do you think?
By A.D.
July 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Why are the braves so concerned about getting a first baseman in return for Tex? Why not focus on getting the most value for Tex regardless of position and worry about getting a firstbaseman in the winter. Also If the Frank Wren settles on Chad Tracy he is out of his mind. Tracy is a good bench player and a stop gap player. Don’t get me wrong he is not a scrub but he shoulc not be a guy the braves should think they can build around for the future.
By tr
July 29, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
DOB
What’s up with Diaz??? Heard him say he was ready to play last week, but haven’t heard about a rehab assignment, no activation.
By Savannah Guy
July 29, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy, the same things that have always won baseball games will win baseball games: getting on base/avoiding outs, gaining lots of total bases, stealing at a good rate will help and keeping the other team from doing these things. That has always been the formula for success and always will be unless they dramatically change the rules of baseball.
Shaun, there you go again, taking things completely out of context, missing the point and reducing insight or opinion down to the most basic levels of common sense. You could have just said that steroids had no effect on stats in the last decade or that the poor execution of fundamentals hampered the Braves this year… uh, along with about 30 injuries.
Better yet, you could have scored higher sarcasm points by simply stating that baseball teams will continue to win games as they always have… by scoring more runs than their opponents. But that would have been too obvious and would not have come across quite as authoritarian or intelligent.
I’m sure you were just doing your baseball expert thing and didn’t mean to come off as a smartarse or a dumbarse. You’re a good kid Shaun, but you need to either get more sarcastic or less so, then folks would know you’re not one of the two. You da man.
Most runs win, right?
By Mike
July 29, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
DOB, no I don’t. It was moreso to show Shaun that we shouldn’t be after corner infielders or outfielders with career OBP of 318. Jacobs does what the Marlins need him to do, slug .500. But I like my corner bats with OBP above the 318 mark. Or even 337 like Kotchman.
And yes, Kotchman will probably raise that mark, maybe to 350, with some luck.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Mike, You seriously think the Marlins are going to trade for a firstbaseman who will be gone at season’s end and trade away a young, cheap, quality firstbaseman under contract for a while…to a team in the same division, no less?
The Braves need a replacement for Teixeira. I think that’s kind of an unspoken in this whole scenario because the Braves don’t want to seem desperate. But there aren’t a whole lot of options for the Braves at first next season. So they’d be better off trading Tex for Kotchman or Tracy (along with other players of course), than keeping Tex and having to find a firstbaseman on the free agent market. I don’t know if they’ll get a free agent firstbaseman that’s the quality of a Kotchman.
The only way I could see them keeping Tex is if they would have gone on a huge winning streak before the deadline and still had a chance to make the playoffs. But now they need to think about how they are going to replace him. The best way to do that is trading for a guy like Kotchman.
Here’s a list of the free agent firstbaseman (according to mlbtraderumors.com:
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $16MM mutual option for ‘09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for ‘09 with a $5MM buyout
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)
Would you take any of these guys and their contracts over a guy like Kotchman?
When you take into account contract demands, ability and everything else, a guy like Kotchman is the best option that’s possibly available to the Braves. Mike Jacobs isn’t available.
By Different Take
July 29, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
DOB
Mike Jacobs has a career .318 OBP. I stay far away from him. The slugging is nice, but that is far too many times that he makes an out.
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Original Jon-
Clayton Kershaw is their prized prospect…. Good luck with that one
By ADC
July 29, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
FYI, Will Schaffer has an interesting post up over at chop-n-change with his thoughts on trades/roster moves. Sorry if someone’s already posted it, but I didn’t see it here.
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
DOB-
You heard any more on the possibility of Fookie returning to Atlanta next year? This season being lost to injury might help his price tag for the Braves a little bit. Just wondering if you’ve heard anymore on that front.
By JS
July 29, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
After all those years of trading pitching prospects and young talent it’s finally come back to haunt big time. Name one quality pitcher the Braves have developed in the 2000’s that’s still on roster. If it weren’t for two rookies (JJ and Campillo- neither developed by the Braves) we would be looking up at the Nats in the standings
Trade Tex, Ohman, Kotsay and whoever else and build the system back up.
By bravos2249
July 29, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones and Rafael Furcal both made a bigger impact than Jermaine Dye. Seriously? Dye is the best example you can think of?
While Dye is hitting .300 with 20+ homers, Druw and Raffy had surgery and one is hitting about .150.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
What are your thoughts about the braves having soooo many injuries? I mean, do you believe it was bad luck? One think is bad luck…………but for it to happen over and over again?
Who says bad luck can’t happen over and over again?
Mike, I think Kotchman will be a solid firstbaseman. I think odds are he will improve on his on-base and slugging abilities. I see no reason to suspect he will not.
I don’t see that his on-base or slugging skills are all that questionable. Again, I see no reason why he can’t post an OBP in the.340-.350 range and slug .460-.480 in his prime, based on his age and his numbers in the majors and minors.
And you or others keep bringing Rivera and a “mid-level prospect.” I hadn’t heard that. The only name I think it’s safe to assume the Braves would get is Kotchman. And of course I think they would get other players, we just know what other names are involved.
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
DOB: If they’re not offering him, do you just take him anyway?
When you want cattle, you take the cattle.
When you want food, you take the food.
When you want a woman…you just take the woman.
By brent a.
July 29, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Shaun, there you go again, taking things completely out of context, missing the point and reducing insight or opinion down to the most basic levels of common sense.
I’m glad that someone else notices.
By Wiley T.
July 29, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know what the Braves magic number is?
2012
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Goodoleboy58
I cant believe what youve just posted………..You want more injured players on this roster???
The past is the biggest pool of knowledge……..learn from it…………..we have just lost our season due to injuries………this is a division full of incompetent teams and injuries kept us from winning it and winning it big. Why would you bring another guy full of injuries?
By WildBill
July 29, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Well, I broke the promise I made to my wife. I turned on the Braves last nite in the ninth inning. Big Mistake, same ol, same ol. So, I asked myself what counsel I would offer to Braves management. Dang, I couldn’t come up with anything, this team is so broken, bent, damaged, and destroyed, anything I could come up with would surely lack the all encompassing strategy, fortitude, and iron will that would be needed to remake this team. Actually, ‘team’ is a misnomer here. The Braves, as it now stands, isn’t a team at all. It is an amorphous bunch of people who show few, if any signs of anything. Oh yes, drawing pay for little, if any, output. Downsizing may be the answer. Drop back and punt, coach. Thank the big guy for FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Mike
July 29, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Mike, You seriously think the Marlins are going to trade for a firstbaseman who will be gone at season’s end and trade away a young, cheap, quality firstbaseman under contract for a while…to a team in the same division, no less?
Shaun, never said Tex was on his way to Florida. Didn’t even mean to talk about Ohman going to Florida. I just meant that Jacobs has a career 318 OBP. That isn’t someone I want on my team.
By Frank
July 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Do you think we will be buyers or sellers at the deadline?
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Lets send JF and TEX for Loney and Kemp
good call doc.we prob would have to add anither player or more. they would force us to eat andrew jones contract (JK)
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
bravos2249, but Dye is the biggest impact bat the Braves have developed in 12 years? The only impact bat, as was implied?
Different Take, good point about Jacobs. He should be in his prime and his OBP is .291 this season.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
If Kotchman is all we get, then apparently there really was NO MARKET for Tex.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
The Rays are still considered by many sources to be one of the bidders for Tex.
Any chance the Braves might ask for Willy Aybar as one component in a deal?
By Tomas
July 29, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
MONDAY: According to Mark Bowman of MLB.com:
A proposed deal, which would have brought Jason Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.
Bowman believes Pirates targets might include Brent Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, a talented A ball pitcher, and a marginal position player prospect. He says the Braves will continue to pursue Bay.
Source mlbtraderumors.com
By DesiBrave
July 29, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
By Frank July 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this Do you think we will be buyers or sellers at the deadline?
Welcome to EARTH !!
By Lew
July 29, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
To steal a riff from Jeff Schultz’s article and then run it through some Coppola and Bob Duvall-“I love the smell of napalm in the morning!”
Did someone actually mention wanting Robert Fick for first? Life is worse than ever imagined.
By Bobby's Cox
July 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Brent a.
I’ve noticed since April, and am glad you notice too. Intentionally misinterpreting posts and skewing context is dirty politics and debate.
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Kotchman wouldn’t be a bad pick up. He isn’t as good, in my opinion, as Jackson or maybe Loney, but he wouldn’t be a total disappointment. He had excellent ability to read the zone in the minors, .407 OBP over his 6 seasons on the farm. In his first full major league season he posted a .372 OBP. He’s more of a doubles guy than a homer threat which is not your typical first base power output.
I’m holding out hope that a good pitcher will be acquired. Most of these first basemen being tossed around have the skill set of some of the potential free agent guys in this coming off season. Might as well get the most talent for Teixeira as possible regardless of position. That’d be treating it like a draft… and this trade is being made to supplant draft picks… just saying.
By Shamus Thacker
July 29, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Grady Jackson is back in town. We should sign him to a Deion style Braves/Falcons contract. Soon as we get somebody on third, allow the fleet-footed Grady to pinch run. I’d love to see the catcher’s eyes as Grady barrels toward him, head down. As the catcher awakened, in traction and barely alive, he’d realize he’d received the Big Mac Payback!
Yeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Mike, I guarantee they’ll get more than Kotchman. Just may not be Rivera and a “mid-level” prospect, as some have been saying.
By P. Rose
July 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
(I Can’t Get No) Maddux Action
by Frank Wren
I can’t get no Maddux action
I can’t get those Pad’s reaction
Though I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and I’ve tried,
I can’t get no, I can’t get no
Well I’m drivin’ in my car
And Van Wieren’s on the radio
He’s tellin’ me more and more
About our useless old rotation
With Smoltz and Glavine on vacation
I can’t get no, no no no
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say
Well I’m watchin’ Peachtree TV
And Joe Simpson tries to tell me
How good my team could be
But we can’t win a game cause we haven’t got
A Maddux or an Avery!
I can’t get no, no no no
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say
I can’t get no Maddux action
I can’t get those Pad’s reaction
Though I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and I’ve tried,
I can’t get no, I can’t get no
When I’m callin’ round the league
And I’m off’rin’ Ohman, I’m off’rin’ Tex
And I’m tryin’ to make some deal
But they say Frankie better come back later next week
Cause the Braves are on a losing streak
I can’t get no, oh no no no
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
N Nine
What about JF, TEX and Diaz for Kemp and Looney?
By singndablues
July 29, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
So, DOB, what’s the possibility of the Braves trading Tex for whomever then resigning him next year as a FA? There was some speculation early on, that we might be able to resign Tex anyway so what do you think the chances are? Get some value on a rental this year then add him back next.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Do we really want Kemp???
He might be even worse than JF.
Id say loney and a A+ pitching prospect for TEX
By Renegator
July 29, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
If this is the kind of product that the Braves are going to put on the field - they better be lowering ticket prices or the rest of the season will look like Marlins attendance. Same for 2009.
It’s too bad Atlanta fans and media are so laid back that no one is held accountable for the past three years.
Looks like a bleak forcast for 2009. We’ll still have Bobby and his band of worthless coaches and the underachieving home-grown Braves that can’t hit their weight when there is a RISP. Not to mention our horribly managed, overused bullpen. With Hudson out all of next year - starting pitching is going to be ugly. Add to that the blaise attitude this team has and there are few positives for next year.
Argh. At least I’ve freed up all my evenings for the next two months because I’m sure as hell not watching this s** on TV.
By Original Jon
July 29, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Tomas Way to be on the ball buddy, that was reported like yesterday
By tkg
July 29, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul Nice one on the Three Amigos reference … I almost lost my lunch laughing at that one.
By JS
July 29, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
I got out at right time…good luck cleaning up my mess Frank.
Your pal, John S.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Mike, I guarantee they’ll get more than Kotchman. Just may not be Rivera and a “mid-level” prospect, as some have been saying.
Kotchman and Adenhart or Walden would satisfy me. I don’t need Rivera or any other corner OF bat. I just want either Walden or Adenhart.
Similar to how I want either Scherzer or Parker.
By the way, I wouldn’t call ANY of them “uber prospects”. They aren’t as sure of a thing as Heyward.
By Shamus Thacker
July 29, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
I failed to mention in my last post that Grady would be utilized against the Phillies ONLY.
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
*Doc Holliday *
So we should avoid anyone who has ever been on the DL? I’m glad you’re not running things.. We’ll just forget that Furcal prior to getting hurt was having his best season of his career
By KC
July 29, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
A friend (here in ATL) just told me he heard on the radio that a Tex-for-connor Jackson deal was close.
I have no idea if there’s any truth to that, but if there is, that would be outstanding.
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Not only do the Angels want Teixeira, but they also would be interested in an expanded deal that would include one of the Braves’ left-handed relievers, Will Ohman or Mike Gonzalez, according to major-league sources.
—Ken Rosenthal
This has to be somewhat frustrating for Wren. Everyone “posturing” saying they’ll offer worn down sluggers that are about to become free agents for Teixeira, or they’ll offer some mid-level crap and nothing more. The D-Backs and Dodgers would seem to be great teams to play off each other considering the standings and the weakness of that division. Teixeira would put one of those teams over the top. More so with the D-Backs than the Dodgers though. But all they let leak is the desire to give up bad contracts, players with no future, or prospects no one wants and continue to ask for guys previously stated as not available…
We’re about to find out just how good of a GM the Braves have.
By Tomas
July 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Just read the mlb trading block, and read a trade that caught my attention. Mark Texeira and Will Ohman for Hideki Matsui, Jesus Montero, and Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Matsui earns 13 million per year, and its a free agent after the 2009 season. He is 34, and the Yankees have a lot of capable outfielders now that they got Nady, and Texeira might be a perfect fir for them in the DH or first base position. The only problem is Matsui has a no trade clause and I don’t know if he might be willing to accept the trade.
Montero is a one of the top catching prospects, and maybe next year mac could move to first and montero could become the catcher, if his ready.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul
I have to agree with you………..we have one of the…………if not the most wanted position player as deadline approaches………..PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING.
If that is what you meant.
If we get a top notch pitcher for TEX then we can deal james or jojo during winter for some position player……….I mean included in a deal for a 1B or OF.
By KC
July 29, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Frank: “Do you think we will be buyers or sellers at the deadline?”
BUYERS!!!!!!
At the deadline NEXT year, that is.
By TK
July 29, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Of all the 1st base players talked about in trades. I like James Loney best. Reminds me of Mark Grace. No way would the Dodgers also send Matt Kemp for Tex also. Wonder if the Dodgers feel the same way about Andre Ethier? I keep hearing the Dodgers ownership has closed the vault door. I wonder if Joe Torre has the combo to open the vault back up?
By McFann O
July 29, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
In My Own Words: Bobby Cox
EXCELLENT!
I highly recommend it to everyone here!
Shamus—
Bad idea! Very bad idea…
By NCBravesFan
July 29, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Renegator While I agree that title contention is more likely in 2010 versus next year, the Braves could surprise us … if for no other reason that the NL East is at this point a pretty motley collection of teams.
By KC
July 29, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal reports that that Angels want Tex, but want to expand the deal to include Ohman or Gonzo.
Mike Gonzalez????
What in the name of all that is holy leads him to believe that Gonzo is available????
Mike Gonzalez is under contract for one more season, and after that, the Braves will have both the interest and the resources to re-sign him.
Gonzo ain’t goin anywhere.
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
DOC
What about JF, TEX and Diaz for Kemp and Looney?
Diaz’s value is mute..plus he has current knee issues. I was thinking a nice prospect to add, but again i dont see anything with dodgers comming. I hope im wrong. 2 months of tex and the unstable FRANCINE is not worth two key long term players.(under team control)
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, I do think Kotchman is a little better than the free agent options realistic for the Braves because he’s about as good a player, but he’s likely going to be cheaper and he’s younger.
Plus, I think the Braves are going to get a firstbaseman anyway because most of the teams interested in Tex already have a firstbaseman, so they need to move theirs.
By Mike
July 29, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
TennPaul
Ohman with Tex? They will probably just throw in a mid level prospect for that addition.
By Gary
July 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Chill out KC, he said they were only asking. More than likely the Angels will take both Tex and Ohman, but the Braves better be getting back Kotchman and a pitcher.
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
*Goodoleboy58 *
Furcal knows the injury bug very well………I guarantee you he will become very good friend of chipper and soriano while they look games from dogout.
By Different Take
July 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
MLBTrade Rumors:
Ken Rosenthal says the Angels and D’Backs are competing for Teixeira. The Halos would like to expand the deal to include a lefty reliever like Will Ohman or Mike Gonzalez. Joe Saunders and Ervin Santana are off-limits, but Casey Kotchman and Juan Rivera can be had. Not sure why Rivera would appeal to the Braves, since he’s a free agent after the season.
I agree with Tim Dierkes. Why does Juan Rivera make any sense at all?!?!?! Hmmm, Ohman, Teixeira and three draft choices for Rivera and Kotchman. Yes!!!!!!!
That is a great trade for the Braves…………….
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
the first 15 picks in the draft cannot be lost via compensation, so a team that is in that rank would give up their second round pick.
—Wikipedia
So I guess the goal would be to really tank this season, land in the top 15 of draft picks and then sign some elite free agent. The Braves wouldn’t lose the first round pick but it would be quite a while before they picked again…
By N Nine
July 29, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
KC
A friend (here in ATL) just told me he heard on the radio that a Tex-for-connor Jackson deal was close
i would be ok with that. I can see arizonia stepping up. They feel they are a hitter away from taking over the NL W orst. tracy is out of question. Angles are stepping on their division..so D.backs need tex more..I hope this comes true.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, yeah, I suspect the Braves will get a pitcher and a firstbaseman, maybe an outfielder, too.
I’m guessing the Braves’ thinking and what they are hoping for is they can fill their pitching, firstbase and outfield needs for next year (and possibly the next several years) with Tex and Ohman.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Goodoleboy58,
The problem in going after Furcal is that he has the same sort of back injury that sidelined Kotsay. Z-man has shown absolutely no power this season, and pop is one of Fookie’s assets.
I’d also be very leery of taking on a middle IF with a surgically repaired back.
By Lew
July 29, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Tomas-Not too sure why we would want an outfielder who will be 35 next year, makes $13 million a year and has missed over 160 games the past three seasons. Why in the world do we want more injuries and that kind of salary? Makes no sense whatsoever. Change Matsui to Melky Cabrera and THEN we might have something worth talking about.
As for moving Mac to first? Haven’t even heard THAT one proposed by anyone other than some of the blog’s lunatic fringe. Given McCann’s speed I just don’t see him on the infield-even at first-at least not for many years. If such were the case they would have kept Salty or would wait until Flowers was ready to take over catcher, IMO.
By Kentavo
July 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Diaz is mute? Is that why we can’t hear him?
By blueridge
July 29, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Would you say that the braves have a plethora of options?
By Sarah
July 29, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
hopefully if they are going to trade Tex then they will keep him out of the game the next 2 nights but come on go ahead and make a trade with him
By nolie
July 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
No matter what happens with Hudson, I believe the Braves will be looking for a FA starter, Supes
I think they will be looking for a starter, but I seriously doubt it will be a free agent. Not their MO and few decent ones available. They will trade.
By Seth Sosebee
July 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Is anyone else FREAKING out that Wren can’t seem to get any deals done?
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
They have also received offers for lefty reliever Will Ohman, with the Rays and Tigers aggressively in pursuit. —- MLB.COM
By Renegator
July 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
So I guess the goal would be to really tank this season
TennesseePaul
They already did that this season - you can check that one off the list.
By TennesseePaul
July 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Payne: I do think Kotchman is a little better than the free agent options
I’d agree. I’m not saying don’t do a deal that includes Kotchman. I am saying that about Tracy though. My point mainly is to acquire the most talented player offered regardless of position because, if that player is not a first baseman, but fills another important hole on this team, the first baseman could be filled via free agency and would probably do just as well as Chad Tracy.
And yes, I could see a first baseman coming back. Teixeira has monster second halves. Just looking at what he was doing last season after being traded I’d imagine he’d instantly power a well rounded team right into the playoffs. It’d be like a nitrous boost for the D-Backs, Dodgers, Angels, or whomever really wants to win it this season.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG up in seconds, if it’s not already there….
By Blogs at the Big Network
July 29, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Add the Dodgers and Yankees to the list of teams that have expressed some level of interest in Mark Teixeira.
According to clubs that have spoken with the Braves, the bulk of their conversations continue to be with the four primary teams identified Monday — the Diamondbacks, Angels, Rays and Red Sox. However, there are indications now that the Dodgers and Yankees have “flirted” with the Braves on Teixeira in the last 24 hours, said an official of one team that spoke with the Atlanta brass.
Clubs involved in these discussions believe the Braves plan to take much of the day Tuesday narrowing their focus with each of the clubs involved and zeroing in on which available names make the most sense. They would then try to close in on a deal with the team, or teams, they think provide the best fit over the next 24 hours.
According to teams in this mix, the Braves aren’t necessarily insisting on getting a first baseman back, but they’ve made it clear that’s their preference. And if they don’t get a first baseman in return, they still are prioritizing a big-league-ready bat as the centerpiece of any trade.
By McFann O
July 29, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Lew—
I’m with you. McCann’s not quite the infield-type…with the speed. I mean, that’s why he moved to catcher when he was playing Travel Ball—well, that plus Calix Crabbe stole his job at second base LOL—he “didn’t get to a lot of balls…”
Anyway, I hope they remember how to play tonight…otherwise the Braves are gonna panic and bring him back too quickly.
BTW—How’d the stew turn out?
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Hey, I heard Campillo is pitching tonight, if we win tonight………are we still sellers?
:-)
Just to add some fun……….
By Goodoleboy58
July 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Seth Sosebee Is anyone else FREAKING out that Wren can’t seem to get any deals done?
Calm down man there’s plenty of time left on the clock
By KC
July 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Lew: Lunatic fringe here!!
I suggested that last year before the Tex deal came up.
I am of the opinion to that McCann might be too great a hitter to have behind the plate. He needs days off back there, and when he’s out, the lineup really suffers.
Also, he’s most definitely in harms way back there. There are many more ways to get hurt back there than at, say, first base.
His bat means so much to this team that it might be worth considering.
I’m not endorsing that idea… just saying it’s worth a thought.
By David O'Brien
July 29, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Seth, the deadline is more than 48 hours away. last year the Tex deal was done in the final hours.
How many other deals have you seen get done already this week?
By Doc Holliday
July 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Seth Sosebee
Come on………he is just waiting……….to put on the pressure on contenders………..
Did I say contenders??? Doesnt that includes us? Guess not ……… When does spring training starts???
By P. Rose
July 29, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Killing Me Softly With Resop
by P. Rose
Scaring no one with his “fastball” Fooling no one with his “curve” Killing me softly with Resop Killing me softly, with Boyer Blowing the ball game Our “bullpen” Killing me softly with Royce Ring
I heard we had a ball club, I heard this was our year And so I paid a Franklin And 8 bucks for a beer And there he was this “pitcher” Loser to my eyes
Causing me pain was Acosta Making me puke was Tavarez Killing me softly with Carlyle Killing me softly, with Bennett Blowing the ball game Our “bullpen” Killing me softly with Resop
I felt all flushed with fever Embarrased by the crowd, They’re mostly Cubs and Mets fans and mocked me right out loud, I prayed the game would finish But they just kept right on
Causing me pain with Acosta Making me puke with Tavarez Killing me softly with Resop Killing me softly, with Boyer Blowing the ball game Our “bullpen” Killing me softly… ah, never mind.
By Shaun
July 29, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Posted by Jayson Stark
Add the Dodgers and Yankees to the list of teams that have expressed some level of interest in Mark Teixeira.
According to clubs that have spoken with the Braves, the bulk of their conversations continue to be with the four primary teams identified Monday — the Diamondbacks, Angels, Rays and Red Sox. However, there are indications now that the Dodgers and Yankees have “flirted” with the Braves on Teixeira in the last 24 hours, said an official of one team that spoke with the Atlanta brass.
Clubs involved in these discussions believe the Braves plan to take much of the day Tuesday narrowing their focus with each of the clubs involved and zeroing in on which available names make the most sense. They would then try to close in on a deal with the team, or teams, they think provide the best fit over the next 24 hours.
According to teams in this mix, the Braves aren’t necessarily insisting on getting a first baseman back, but they’ve made it clear that’s their preference. And if they don’t get a first baseman in return, they still are prioritizing a big-league-ready bat as the centerpiece of any trade.
By ppaddy123
July 29, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
McFann,
I saw the In My Own Words with Bobby last night and agree completely. It’s especially a good idea for those of us (like me) who have been a little negative about him.
The program shows what a decent, humble person he is. Plus, what a great story. The Dodgers signed him to a pro contract even though his arm was injured and he couldn’t throw at all. Considered taking a college scholarship to play QB.
And he was on Billy Martin’s coaching staff with the Yankees in ‘77 (the Bronx is Burning season).
Yep, highly recommended.
By Bobby's Cox
July 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOC
If we just got Loney and no one else from LA, I’d be happy.
In fact, I’d give them Tex, pay the remainder of his salary this year, and give them KJ (to replace Kent next year), for just Loney.
Then I’d find an outfield bat with power. I’ve said no to Bay, but I’d take him. Offer Pitt Lil, BJ, Morton or Jo Jo, and other prospect,maybe Schafer, and take the deal. Why give away Lil? Because Prado will be a fine 2nd baseman, and his bat is years ahead of Lilibridges. You’d have a lineup showcasing Chipper (infante his backup), BMac, Escobar, Loney, Bay, & Prado. That’s pretty sweet. Then you use your money to extend Bay, lock up Esco, resign Hampton for like 3 mil if he stays healthy, sign a top notch starter, and a reliever or 2 (maybe Ohman).
Problems solved. Wren is right, he’s still in a position of strength.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 29, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I’d like to see Flowers get a cup of coffee in September if the necessary roster moves aren’t too screwy.
By Tomas
July 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Melky is shameless right now, he couldn’t even hit a beach ball, it would be no improvement to our cf gregor Blanco. Matsui can hit, I mean the guy was always a homerun hitter in japan, and has hit 300(or around) all these seasons with the Yankees. He was very durable until last season when he injured his wrist making a catch last year. He had a consecutive games streak, much like frenchy had this year before he was benched, but i’d bet my money he’ll have a full season next year.
By Mr J
July 29, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I don’t see anything necessarily lunatic about the notion of moving McCann to 1st. Anyone who can hit .300 with power is someone who should play every day, and catchers can’t do that.
It’s not like he’s a fabulous defensive player whose skills behind the plate couldn’t be improved on. By all reports he calls a good game, and pitchers like throwing to him, but his arm is average at best and balls in the dirt get by him too often.
If a better defensive catcher who could hit .275/15HR were available, and McCann was agreeable to (and able to) make a switch to 1st, then it might be good for all concerned.
Call me crazy!
By Thrashniac
July 29, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave, Just getting around to reading your comments this morning in your blog about insurance on Hudson’s contract for 2009. In Schuerholz’ “Built to Win” page 103 and preceding, Schuerholz has several pages of discussion on the negotiations of Hudson’s contract extension.
My reading is that the first 3 years were insured (06-08) and then a new MRI would have to be done before the ‘09 year and ‘10 option year could be insured and of course if he’s coming off Tommy John………
But if I’m reading this wrong, Page 103 of “Built to Win” mentions the first 3 years being insured - so I don’t know if that includes the ‘05 year that was under contract already when the extension was negotiated - if it did, then ‘08 and beyond could be insured.
Anyway, could be of interest since the Braves are a team playing with a cap in a no salary cap league - Hamption is owed $20mm for ‘09 (all on the Braves nickel), Hudson $13mm and Smoltz would be owed $12mm if he had pitched 200 innings this year so not sure what he will cost in ‘09 if he doesn’t retire. But that’s a lot of money tied up in some pretty aged/oft injured/recovering from surgery pitchers.
Boy, Frank Wren has some thinning to do as Ricky Ricardo would say.
By vic
July 29, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
What ever happens I hope and believe Wren will take his time and make the best deal possible for now and the future. You got to have a little faith in the man.
By Lew
July 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
MrJ-You’re crazy. Did that make your day? They’re not going to move McCann to first.
By JohninPhilly
July 29, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Well to be honest, the Braves were dead a month ago. The body just did not stop twitching until Sunday. I am reading this stream of changes to make. The only players not mentioned for trade above are Chipper and McCann. One is too old to get anything and the other the best catcher in baseball. What does that tell you? The dynasty was over 3 years now, You are now having to deal with management not realizing it and reacting then. The Braves are doomed to 7 years of drought while they rebuid. Couldn’t happen to a better group of underachievers dubbed so wrongly as America’s team. Enjoy mediocrity Atlanta.
By TommyP
July 29, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Lots of ideas on here, some extremely wild and others pretty sound.
Question for those enamored with the Kotchman/Rivera package? Rivera is 30 and has never been a regular starting outfielder. I believe he got close to 500 at bats one year but that’s it. So why, all of a sudden, is this guy the answer to left field? Just asking.
I am thinking Arizona is the most likely destination.
I have seen lots of names thrown around but don’t discount Yusmeiro Petit. Still extremely young arm that is ready for a rotation spot.
If they’re going to get a Tracy, I would bet they’re trying for Petit over Owings. Two guys they could plug in right away.
By StoossyJettuh
August 13, 2008 5:54 AM | Link to this
scan virus program mcafee free
By TimothyLRsa
August 19, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this
walker ranger cfnoq walker middle school of new jersey
By JohnNOsa
September 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
very good
By JohnNOsa
September 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
very good
By QRGarrettsa
September 2, 2008 4:25 AM | Link to this
very good
By lavidjio
January 28, 2009 8:53 AM | Link to this
lavidjio