Lost weekend in season of discontent

AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 28 > Entry

By David O'Brien | Monday, July 28, 2008, 12:20 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Back on the case, we’ll clear the decks here as we await announcements later today regarding DL assignments and expected replacements, etc.

Expect Clint Sammons to be brought up to fill in for concussed Brian McCann, and Charlie Morton to get tonight’s start, which means someone (Chipper?) will have to be DL’d to open a roster spot for Morton. Oh, and Tex to be traded to Arizona.

(Got your attention, didn’t I?)

Anyway, after the Saturday-Sunday bullpen meltdowns and huge blown leads (did the Braves really blow a six-run lead Saturday and a five-run lead Sunday?) made it more likely than ever that Mark Teixeira will be moved by Thursday’s non-waiver trade deadline, thought I’d take a look at his year with the Braves and what they might possibly get in return if they trade him.

But first, did you all happen to see Jon Heyman’s Inside Baseball story in Sports Illustrated last week? SI did a survey of 20 major league GMs, asst. GMs, scouting directors and scouts, and asked them to name the five players they’d build their franchises around.

Youth was obviously a factor, as most don’t want to build a team around players in the downside of their careers. That explains why, of the 35 players who got votes, only four were older than 30, including A-Rod, who was second in the overall voting behind Marlins shortstop Hanley Ramirez.

They did it on a 5-4-3-2-1 scoring system, and Hanley was the runaway winner with 40 points and 5 first-place votes among the 20 voters. A-Rod had 29 points, Chase Utley 27, 22-year-old Mariners pitcher Felix Hernandez had 23, and Joe Mauer had 21, the only others with more than 20 points in the voting.

OK, but here’s what surprised me a bit. While I stated here last week that I could name at least 10 NL players I’d rather build a team around than Teixeira, it surprises me that people who don’t see as much of him as those who watch him daily, would also feel the same way.

I mean, would think his undisputedly large statistics, his excellent defense, and age (28) might land him in, say, the top 20 in a poll like this one in SI, wouldn’t you?

Well, think again. Because of the 35 players who received votes in this baseball-wide survey, Brian McCann was on the list, but Teixeira was not. Not so much as one fifth-place vote did he receive.

You can interpret that as you see fit, but the varied likes of Carlos Beltran, Russell Martin, Lance Berkman, Evan Longoria, Jake Peavy, Adrian Gonzalez and B.J. Upton received votes, and Tex did not.

Anyway….

Getting back to his year with the Braves. If it ends this week, it will have been a statistically impressive run, at least in terms of raw numbers. No question about that.

Since he was dealt to Atlanta from Texas as the centerpiece in a blockbuster, seven-player deal just before last year’s trade deadline, Teixeira has played 156 games for the Braves and hit .294 with 34 doubles, 37 homers, 133 RBI, 92 walks, 115 strikeouts, a .394 OBP and .545 slugging percentage.

The Braves went 76-80 in those games.

(Just for the curious, former Braves prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia has hit .242 with 10 homers and 45 RBI in 93 games (331 at-bats) for Texas since the trade, with a .311 OBP, .387 slugging percentage, 106 strikeouts and 18 errors. Rangers got four other prospects in the deal, though, and most are progressing, so only time will tell.)

Tex might not make the top 35 of players those surveyed by SI would build around, but Tex did inspire a memorable hit song on You Tube (remember those two guys from Auburn? That’s making the most of your 15 minutes).

Remember the Tex hysteria in that first month or so when the former Georgia Tech standout wore the tomahawk? He inspired it with his huge production right after the deal, including three homers and seven RBIs in his first three games for Atlanta and nine homers and 25 RBI in his first 18 games.

Yes, nine homers and 25 RBIs in his first 18 games with the team. The Braves went 10-8 in those games.

There was so much promise. But it fizzled out. The Braves sputtered in the final weeks of the 2007 season, officially eliminated from the wild-card hunt in the last week.

And this season? Ugly. Multiple injuries to key pitchers; disappointments from the corner outfield positions, especially RF; and yes, a slow start by Teixeira, who always started slow with Texas, and did again with the Braves.

The Braves really needed him to help Chipper Jones carry the load in that first month and a half. It didn’t happen. Yunel Escobar and Brian McCann had torrid stretches in that period, but Tex didn’t.

The Braves got too far back and, each time they seemed poised to make a big move, they’d have a terrible series or two and push the frustration needle to the right.

Oh, it’s been a maddening season for Braves Nation, to be sure. Fairly or unfairly, Tex fell out of favor with many when he struggled early on and didn’t seen too concerned by it (he’d keep saying how he always started slow, that it was a marathon not a sprint, etc.).

People don’t want to hear that when they’re team is slipping in the standings and injuries are mounting. They want to hear how you feel terrible for not helping out, how you can’t look at yourself in the mirror because you’re not doing your part, that kind of thing.

Hey, it’s just human nature. And if you ask me, some people need a good PR agent to explain that to them, to explain that a little regret and beating one’s self up publicly goes a long way. But hey, I’m no PR agent.

Long story short, this was the year when Tex needed to buck his trend of slow starts. But it didn’t happen. Who knows if a huge first month from him could have made the difference for the Braves? But I can assure you, it sure would have made things a bit more interesting.

OK, so what do they get in a trade? I still don’t know, and I’m just behind honest when I say that. While I do believe the Braves can and will get a decent deal for him, assuming they trade him by Thursday, there’s a very good chance it won’t be nearly enough to satisfy fans who don’t seem to understand the difference between his situation now and a year ago.

The Braves gave up a bounty for Tex and lefty Ron Mahay because they were getting Teixeira for what they believed would be two playoff runs. Not one, but two. Turns out, they’ve gotten no playoff runs from him, and won’t unless they decide to keep him and then they make a huge turnaround in their season.

But if things had worked out as they hoped and planned, they’d have gone to the playoffs twice with Teixeira as their cleanup hitter and Gold Glove-caliber first baseman, and also would’ve had Mahay as their top situational lefty for one of those postseasons.

Few would be able to argue that the price had not been worth it (well, some would’ve argued that case anyway, barring a World Series win for the Braves. But you can’t win that argument with that segment of the fan base, so no reason to try.)

Anyway, things obviously didn’t work out, and now people want to see what the Braves get for Tex and then will judge just how bad they think last year’s deal was. That’s part of the game when you make such deals. It’s the nature of fando. But GMs know this, and know they can’t be afraid to make a deal for fear that it will anger fans a year later, like the J.D. Drew deal and others have before this one.

You roll the dice. Your minor league system exists both to produce players you can use in the majors and to produce players you can trade to fill holes in an effort to put you over the top.

Where were we? Oh, what the Braves might get.

The market isn’t what we might have expected for Teixeira, simply because so many contenders are set at first base and designated hitter.

Only contenders who are willing to part with a young player and or prospects in return for a two-month rental - because agent Scott Boras doesn’t usually do that long-term extension before a trade is finalized thing. He’ll want to take his guy to the open market this winter, to seek a deal worth more than $20 mill a year for seven or eight seasons for Teixeira.

Will he get that? I don’t know. But he’ll try. And Boras, he’s pretty good at this stuff, if you haven’t heard.

So what’s the market? If I’m the Braves, I keep pushing the Diamondbacks for Conor Jackson, who’s hitting .324 with a .407 OBP, with 12 homers and 55 RBI. That includes a sublime .396 average and 1.137 OPS in 96 at-bats vs. lefties.

Jackson’s a stellar player and the Braves could have him under control for three more years in arbitration, and he’s also played left field in the majors. He’d be huge “get” for the Braves if they could land him in a trade for Tex.

But I don’t think the D-Backs are going to give him up for Tex; I know if I were them I wouldn’t

So perhaps the Braves can work out a deal with Arizona involving Chad Tracy, another 1B who’d be under contract for under $5 mill next season. He ain’t Conor Jackson, but Tracy is a .289 career hitter with 131 doubles, 68 homers and 267 RBIs in 563 games, with a .348 career OBP.

He’s hitting .303 this season with six homers, includking .350 (14-for-40) with runners in scoring position.

However, Tracy is just a .226 career hitter against lefties, and only 22 of his 145 at-bats this season have been against lefties.

If the Braves do a deal for him, they’ve probably got to get something else solid thrown in, or else don’t you take the two draft picks instead?

Barring a deal with Arizona, I’d keep pushing the Angels for 1B Casey Kotchman, because he’d also give Atlanta a young (25), affordable 1B for at least next season, with a line-drive swing and pretty good power (.296 average with 11 homers last season, 11 homers already this season with a .288 average).

I know Boras has a great relationship with both the Angels and Dodgers, and probably could convince either team there’d be a good chance to re-sign Tex. But the Dodgers, unless they really believed they could re-sign him, wouldn’t possibly trade young 1B James Loney (career .312/.367 OBP/.508 slugging) for Teixeira, could they?

Anyway, stay tuned. It’s going to be a interesting week around here, what with the Teixeira situation and the bigger trade market that exists for veteran lefty Will Ohman.

(And wasn’t Ohman’s reading of the Braves lineup Saturday on Fox, with his impersonation of the late, great Harry Caray, spectacular? Gonna miss that dude if he’s traded. I won’t have anyone else to talk to about The Big Lebowski - Ohman knows just about all the dialogue and has a T-shirt with The Dude on it.)

McCann, Chipper voids: So how much will the Braves miss if they are without both Chipper Jones and Brian McCann for most or all of this week?

Well, they’d miss a hell of a lot, to say the least.

Jones and McCann rank second and sixth in the NL in on-base plus slugging percentage (OPS), Jones at 1.062 and McCann at .949. The others in the top six? Berkman, Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday and Pat Burrell.

Chipper still leads the league with a .369 average and .466 OBP. By the way, Jeff Francoeur’s .288 OBP is third-lowest among NL qualifiers.

McCann’s concussion — on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday — comes at a time when McCann has been carrying the offense, batting .390 (16-for-41) with five homers and 15 RBI in his past 13 games, with 13 walks, two strikeouts and a .545 OBP in that span.

Between them, Chipper and Mac have 32 of the Braves’ 77 homers against right-handers. They are the team’s two best in homers and slugging percentage against righties, and Tex (13) is the only other Brave with as many as 10 homers against right-handers.

Oh, and Chipper and Mac are also the only two Braves regulars hitting .300 or higher with runners in scoring position. Each is at .310 with RISP; next-best is Gregor Blanco at .297, among Braves with at least 30 at-bats with RISP.

This would be Chipper’s first DL stint in more than a year. Since returning from his last stint on June 13, 2007, he’s hit .361 with 44 doubles, 35 homers and 130 RBI in 181 games, with a .452 OBP and .596 slugging percentage.

The Braves are 93-88 in that stretch when Chipper plays, and 5-15 when he does not.

Declining relief: Blaine Boyer leads the majors with 56 appearances, and the wear and tear seems to be showing. He has a 5.82 ERA and .287 opponents’ average in 23 appearanes since June 8, with six walks and 16 strikeouts in 21-2/3 innings….

But no one has slipped lately more than lefty Royce Ring, who has been terrible in July. He’s got a stagginer 22.09 ERA and .571 opponents’ average in seven appearances since July 2, with 12 hits, nine earned runs and six walks in just 3-2/3 innings.

He’s given up at least one hit in every appearance, at least one walk in five of the seven appearances, and multiple hits or multiple walks in four of the seven.

The punchless outfield: Braves outfielders still have only 20 home runs; no other NL team has gotten fewer than 26 homers from outfielders, and half of the 16 teams have at least 44 outfielder homers…. Jeff Francoeur has hit .165 (20-for-121) with one homer and seven RBI in his past 32 games….

Close-and-yikes: You want a startling stat? Tex (four) and Jeff Francoeur (three) have seven of the Braves’ mere nine homers in close-and-late situations. McCann and Escobar have the other two. Seven NL teams have more than twice as many homers in close-and-late situations than the Braves, including the Marlins with a league-high 32 and Phillies with 22…. The Braves’ .242 average in close-and-late situations is better than only Washington and San Diego in the NL.

“HURRICANE PARTY” by James McMurtry

The hurricane party’s windin’ down and we’re all waitin’ for the end

And I don’t won’t another drink, I only want that last one again

He gave me such a fine glow, smokin’ slow, now I should probably be homeward bound

There’s just no one to talk to when the lines go down

I guess that in the morning I’ll go lookin’ for my gray-striped cat

My old house can take the weather so I’m not too concerned about that

It was built to take the wind back in nineteen-and-ten when this was one damned fine town

But now there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down

Candles flickered on the back bar and the building was shakin’ with the wind

I bought a whiskey for the gypsy and she turned my leather back into skin

Just a fleeting sense of that rare suspense I once thought made the world go round

But now there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down

Open up your back screen door

Let me see your face once more

My hands are cold and my feet so sore

And I can’t go on this way

And the thoughts come too fast and too many to keep count, best just to let ‘em on through

Now I’m breaking those glass insulators with my old 22

Off the telephone polls as a half dollar rolls across the knuckles of a rodeo clown

There’s just no one to talk to when the lines go down

My one great love, my God, I can feel her still

She ran off to California and now she’s living in those Hollywood hills

With some bullfrog prince, I’ve not seen her since

Though she calls when he’s out of town

And there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down

Open up your back screen door

Let me in your space once more

I was looking for an easy score

But it just don’t work that way

Some insurance man-biker is yellin’ out for one more beer

But a part-time pirate just can’t get much respect around here

We got our problems too, man we’ll get to you

In just a minute, sit your drunk a@# down

Yeah, there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down

Now there’s water up past the wheel wells of my

Ford and I don’t guess that it’ll run

But I left a pack of Winston’s on the dash, could you fetch ‘em for me son?

The morning’s first cigarette, that’s as good as it gets all day I should know by now

But there’s no one to talk to when the lines go down

Permalink | Comments (900) | Post your comment |

Comments

By N Nine

July 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

liberty media=atlanta spirit

By Michael Procton

July 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

First?

Anyways, DOB…how do the Bravos feel about potentially having four first-rounders to pay for if they don’t get offers they want? With our original pick in addition to the #1 for Tex plus supplementals for Tex and Ohman, that’s a lot of bonus money to be paying.

By IgCognito

July 28, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

From Keith Law via MLBTradeRumors:

“The Braves have at least four suitors in the mix for Mark Teixeira now, teams with whom they’ve spoken in the last 48 hours.”

By Pete Rose

July 28, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Bobby, haven’t you got any guts? Victorino deliberately came at McCann with a head ram into Mac’s temple. He was out by a mile, but saw a clear shot to take Big Mac out. Why didn’t we throw at the Phillies next inning? Someone should have thrown a beaner at Vic’s fat head. The pitcher would have been ejected - so what? There may have been a bench-clearing brawl - good! These pathetic Braves need some motivation. Instead, they have to suffer another 5+ run lead blown in 24 hours against a hated division rival, as their disgusting fans taunt and mock chop. Then you stick your tails between your legs and limp out of town, 7 1/2 games out, when you could have SWEPT. But you lost the series, Bobby, because of your insane loyalty to those two gutless pitchers, Boyer and Reyes. Then you make vomit-inducing statements like “Blaine only made one mistake today,” or “You have to tip your cap to their hitters.” BULL! Where’s the fight? You’ve just been dog-slapped and you just take it. “We’ll go get ‘em tomorrow.” No, you won’t. It’s the same thing, game in and game out. I am so sick of this “gentlemen” act. The Phillies smell blood. Pick your heads up! At least go down fighting. You guys are making me sick. When Escobar first came up., he was so fired up. How refreshing that was. Now he’s caught the Brave’s lethargy, and the fire is gone. He looks just like Chipper or Francoeur as he calmly walks back to the dugout after hitting into a rally-killing double play. Come on! Wake up! Get mad! Go out and get ‘em tomorrow - for real! Kick some butt! Come on!

By skip

July 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Okay DOB best guess-who’s getting sent down/DFA’d today?

By patrocket

July 28, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance the braves shut Jurjens down or drastically reduced his pitch limit? He’s on pace to far exceed his previous inning total. Also, any chance we see Hanson for a late season start or two?

By bobby

July 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Why all the hysteria about trading Tex? All they would be doing is opening up another hole in the lineup. No way are they going to get a better player than he is and besides he problably saves more runs with his glove than anybody they could get would knock in. This team needs much more than they can get in any trade. As far as that goes, no one player in baseball could bring enough in return to make them contenders.

They should have started rebuilding three years ago starting at the top. They didn’t become also runs overnight..

By AZBravoFan

July 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Wow, what a demoralizing weekend! Seems like the Braves keep coming up with new and excruciating ways to lose to the Phils. From this weekend, to KJ’s pop-up, heck, I can even remember a rookie Chase Utley taking dominant closer John Smoltz deep a few years ago to erase what seemed like a sure win. Those dramatic wins in the opening series last year sure seem like a distant memory now, don’t they?

I mentioned this before when someone brought up Tracy. I’m still not convinced he’s totally healthy. If they can’t get Jackson, then they should focus on another team.

By Stephen

July 28, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

It looks like the Rangers might want to trade Saltalamacchia. Any chance the Braves get him back to be 1B next year?

By MAV

July 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

I still do not understand why people on this blog keep on saying we need to show “heart” and intentionally injure or throw at another player on the opposite team just because Mccann got hurt. It’s stupidity to do such a thing, NOT HEART! Just think if you had that mentality at your day job, you would be fired. Think about it.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Not a good start to the week when you open mailbox and the new Rolling Stone has a cover of … The Jonas Brothers.

The horror.

By THE BEAR

July 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

You hit it David. When Tex was “getting off to another of his slow starts” the Braves were losing those one run games. I have watched him carefully and I don’t see the fire in the belly that we usually allociate with winners.

The Braves can lose without him so get what they can and move on.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

pathanson, I don’t think Hanson is going to get called up this season, but next season is certainly a possibility, perhaps even from Day 1. He’ll get a look in spring training, of that I’m fairly certain.

By TheManMike

July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

The Big Lebowski! - favorite movie of all time; “But thats just like, your opinion, man..”

By THE BEAR

July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

The Braves can lose without him so get what they can and move on.

By Pete Rose

July 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Blah, blah, blah. “McCann’s concussion - on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday…” Blah, blah blah. BULL! Ah, those Phillies and their fans. Such class. Such gentlemen. BULL! To hell with the Phillies. “Sissy Poets,” by Dave O’Brien: I write all day, but don’t say crap… I watch the Braves, as they get slapped… I’m just like them, I got no rocks… I’m just a b#@ch, for Bobby Cox… I got a special knack for rhymin’… Just like the Braves, out on the diamond… They softly tread, like sissy poets… ‘Cept Chipper Jones, for All-Star voets… I’m on the in, and you’re just jealous… I get to see the jock-strapped fellas… As all their sweat, it drips like honey… They mail it in, and count their money… Then I go out, and write about it… The Braves are done, no doubt about it.”*

By MAV

July 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and more money spent by Liberty Media does not gurantee more wins. Just look at the teams with lower payrolls. Tampa, Milwaukee, Florida, Chicago White Sox, Arizona, Minnesota. All there fans don’t call there owners gutless. It’s about spending money right. No player on your team should account fo 20% or more of the payroll. So as far as resigning Texiera for 20 il, i would say hell no.

By NASCAR Dave

July 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Gutless LOSERS!!!

NUFF SAID.

By THE BEAR

July 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

The Braves can lose without him so they should get what they can for Tex and move on.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Charlie’s starting tonight. That part is official. But no corresponding move yet.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Stephen, if the Braves thought Saltalamacchia had value as a firstbaseman, I don’t think they would have included him in the Teixeira trade to begin with.

By Braves20

July 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Pete Rose - have to disagree. If anything Utley’s crash into McCann a few innings earlier looked more intentional.

Will be interesting to see if one of our guys (pitchers) go after either one in the next series which I believe is not to be played until mid-September at the Ted.

Perhaps all will be forgotten by then or perhaps as my Dad used to say we “bring back Sal Maglie or Early Wynn.”

By RC

July 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard anything about other, non-1b players the Braves might ask for in a Tex trade? Or even if there are any players they might have an interest in?

By Supes

July 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

I liked your “hard and clean play” comment, but you forgot the one play that happened earlier in the game. Cheap forearm to BMac’s face that could have knocked him out.

I know a “hard clean play” the Braves could have done…as in spikes up sliding into second when Utley was covering or beaning him in the rids with a fastball once.

Think how scary yesterday was for the Braves. It wasn’t that long ago that the self described “gritty, hardnosed player” by the name of Darrin Erstad pretty much ended the career of Johnny Estrada (he’s not been the same ever since) with a similar slide. I remember the Braves gutless attempt at “retaliation that day” was right down laughable. They didn’t protect their all star catcher then, and didn’t do it last night.

Lack of passion, fire and your team is your family - 2008 Braves. Supposed to stick up for each other. Even if Bobby didn’t want to retaliate last night…one of the relievers should have had BMac’s back.

Now onto some positives: Tonight could be the end of the Corky Miller “era”.

I hope we see a battery of Morton/Sammons. It would make sense. He’s caught him a bunch in the minors, and he can’t be any worst offensively than that waste of oxygen Corky Miller is.

By DAP01

July 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Punt on 2008.

Trade for prospects.

Send Jeff F. down until he becomes a prospect again.

By Plate Appearance

July 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

IT’S TOO BAD

It’s too bad Tex wants so much money and is a Boras client.

It would have been nice to see him as a part of the Braves lineup over the next several years.

However, I don’t believe the money can be justified. But at the same time, I’ll hate to see him go.

Apart from what DOB mentioned about how Tex handled his early season lack of production, I’ve liked his overall attitude in what I’ve read about him.

As to the trade possibilities, I’d like to see the Braves really shore up their pitching and try Thorman again at first base, as related to his increased minor league production.

Any thoughts about Thorman possibly being in the Braves brain trust mix DOB?

By Heath

July 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

You know, I don’t think that we necessarilly have to trade for a first baseman. If Hampton, Glavine AND Smolts are not back next year…you start off with their salaries AND Tex’s current salary when going into the offseason. Why not go for another Jair-type of guy when trading tex…maybe package kotsay and ohman for a young corner outfielder and make a run at tex in the offseason. I say this because if we could get some young, major-league ready talent for these three guys in that manner…we should have the necessary pitching, a decent outfield (I like Blanco in center and still gotta give Francoeur another shot next year..realistically anyway), and plenty of money to get tex back at first base…. thoughts Dave?

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

All the trade talk seems focused on the West Coast, and I’d like to think that the White Sox might consider Tex a possible offensive upgrade over Konerko at first. Perhaps the problem is that they haven’t got much to offer the Braves in return.

By Greg

July 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Unless im missing something here, if the braves were to hold onto Tex and let him walk at the end of the year, assuming they offered him arbitration, they would receive a first round pick and a sandwich pick as compensation.

Tex for a few worthless months plus the draft picks are MUCH MUCH more valuable than a mediocre injury-prone Chad Tracy.

Am i wrong in that?

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Looks like we have another Eminem fan in Pete Rose, DOB.

If Chipper’s DL’d, then once he is activated he’ll really need to try and stay healthy the rest of the year lest he not have enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title. Think he’ll need a little over 500 plate appearances to qualify.

By Jake

July 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

I understand Tex has not been what we hoped this year offensively. I think some of that has to do with the fact that he was in a new league finally caught up with him. I would actually like to try and keep Tex. I think he may not be as much as we think because he is a Boras client. I mean A-Rod who was suppose to break the bank last year and be even to expensive for the Yankees ended up back with them and in no way did he get the contract that was predicted. The same could be said for Andruw. The Dodgers took a risk in him paying him that much even if it was for a short contract and it hasn’t payed off. I think there is a little backlash against Boras in the league.

I think we should keep him because we have Tim Hudson and Jair Jurrjems who are sinker ball pitchers and Tex to me is flat out one of the best first basemen defensively and has saved a lot of hits for our pitchers. I mean just last year people treated Tex like a god send and now there ready to just dump him. I don’t think we should trade him just to trade him. If we trade him we better get more than what we just gave up last year to get him. If we don’t we will just look stupid like the pirates do because they gave up more and got less back. Don’t make a trade just to make a trade. Only make it if it truly betters the team.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Heath, I agree about not being forced to get a 1B in return. I mean, if they trade Tex they aren’t realistically thinking of making the playoffs this season, certainly. So if worst-case scenario, you have Thorman or the Cuban, Canizares, play 1B the rest of this season, or Norton play it some.

But that’s obviously not a great option. You’d prefer to get a 1B that’s under contractual control the next couple seasons or more, if at all possible. Because the Braves don’t have a good one ready to plug in next year, and Tex on free-agent market is probably just too expensive.

By N Nine

July 28, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

SUPES Now onto some positives: Tonight could be the end of the Corky Miller �era�.

well not yet until simmons plays well and mccann comes back, THEN goodbye. we cant just have unexperienced Catcher with mccann hurt. But no worries his time is ending. Hes worst than T.Pratt!!!!!!!

By lewie

July 28, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

it was a clean play…the philly fans do suck donkeyballs but that wasnt a cheap shot

it was an agressive play with the game in the balance.

By Supes

July 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

**Heath

You know, I don�t think that we necessarilly have to trade for a first baseman **

You’d have to call up Scott Thorman then for the rest of the season and use him and Greg Norton. Not sure that is the way to go even in attempt to get ready for next year.

We know Thorman will be dealt or released, he isn’t in the Braves plans to be a first baseman in the starting lineup.

How about the guy at AA. I can’t recall the name, but he’s a decent prospect, right? Could he be considered next year or will he just move up to AAA when Thorman goes.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Pete Rose, as in prose. I love it.

By Chris

July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Keith Law said that 4 teams have had conversations with the braves about Tex in the past 48 hours.

By Chief Bunt-um-ova

July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Reading the comments on the blog is like watching auditions to play the two old men on the muppet show. Only not as funny.

By Captain Obvious

July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

http://trades.mlblogs.com/

Don’t know if this has been posted. I apologize if it has. Bowman says a deal for Bay was in place but shot down. They want B Jones, Little Bridge, and possibly two more “Class A” level prospects. What are we waiting on?

By Eric Roberts

July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Here’s an interesting stat for you that displays the Braves’s offensive futility and explains why they’re under .500.

Going into last Friday’s game, the Braves had played 45 games since June 1. In those 45 games, McCann, Teixeira, and Chipper combined for 27 homeruns. In those same 45 games, the rest of the Braves (the other 10 or so position players) had only combined for 16 homers. That’s unbelieveable. Going behind the stats, Francoeur hit 3 in that stretch, Escobar hit 2, Norton = 2 and Kelly only 1. Such an unbalanced lineup full of punch-and-Judy hitters. Cox has fallen in love with these Pete Orr-types and it’s started to negatively effect the team. We need offensive and to quit relying on Boyer and Ring. By the way, Reyes is also terrible. Morton should’ve been the one that pitched yesterday.

If you have time, please examine the lack of production outside of the three good Braves players and compare it to some of our better teams in the 14-year run. thanks

By N Nine

July 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Greg i kinda agree with you but im sure better offeres will come in the next few days!

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Guys, look at Sammons’ stats @ AAA. Be logical. He’s not going to develop and get any better by playing against Major League pitching every five or six days. It makes no sense to keep him up here for other than a few days until McCann gets better. On a side note, I would have rather taken my chances with Javy then Corky, whom I’ve also liked as a ballplayer, he’s just not having a good year. DOB: Any word on if Javy’s staying in shape? Because then he could pull a Brett Favre, minus wanting out. haha wishful thinking…gotta love it

By IgCognito

July 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

From Bowman at Bay Still On Radar

The Braves scored 27 runs during this past weekend’s series in Philadelphia and won just once. Things certainly might have been different had they had Chipper Jones and Jason Bay in their lineup.

Jones was sidelined by a strained left hamstring and Bay was stuck in Pittsburgh because Pirates ownership was reluctant to move him.

Before the start of Friday’s game, many of the Braves players were asking about Bay. Some were under the impression that they were going to walk into the clubhouse that day and find him to be their newest teammate.

But a proposed deal, which would have brought Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.

Still as the week progresses, the Braves will continue to pursue Bay, who is set to earn $7.5 million during the final year of his contract next year.

The Pirates would have a definite interest in shortstop Brent Lillibridge, who they developed before trading him to the Braves in exchange for Adam LaRoche last year.

In addition, they’d likely ask for Brandon Jones, who would be considered a Major League-ready outfielder. He hit .278 (15-for-54) with seven extra-base hits, including a homer, in 16 games with Atlanta earlier this year.

To complete the deal the Braves would likely also have to include one of their talented young pitchers from the Class A level and another marginal position player.

— Mark Bowman

By RC

July 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

I’m all for the “trade Tex, try and resign him in the offseason” strategy. Here’s another guy I’d LOVE to see us go after this offseason - Chone Figgins. He’d be an excellent leadoff guy, give the Braves a speed element (something Wren has talked about wanting to add), and could play in the outfield while serving as an insurance policy on Chipper at 3b. I’d actually try to sign him for somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 years, so that when Chipper does decide he’s finished you have a guy ready to fill his position, instead of having to search for someone when that time comes.

By Tyler

July 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Pirates Owners Killed Bay-Braves Trade (http://trades.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/baystillontheradar.html)

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Welcome back, Chief. Thanks for the new blog.

Am anxiously awaiting the corresponding move.

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Pirates Owners Killed Bay-Braves Trade According to Mark Bowman of MLB.com:

A proposed deal, which would have brought Jason Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.

Bowman believes Pirates targets might include Brent Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, a talented A ball pitcher, and a marginal position player prospect. He says the Braves will continue to pursue Bay.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

By Theo

July 28, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

No more false facades, start cleaning the decks. And we’ve a lot of deck hands who need to go.

Complacency and contentment have set in and it runs from Boobey Cox down through the players.

Time for a a* kicker to take the helm.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 28, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

I really hope that if we get Tracy for Tex that he isn’t the centerpiece of that deal. Tracy and some high level prospects maybe, but Tracy and some mid-level or lower prospects…No freakin way! That just isn’t worth it when you can get two high draft picks by keeping Tex through the end of the year. Tracy isn’t going to help the Braves win next year he just isn’t a very good option because of his injury potential and mediorce production.

The Braves can and should do better if they are going to trade Tex.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Greg, Yeah, I don’t think the Braves would do Tex-for-Tracy straight up. I think the Braves would want at least one, maybe two other pieces.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Yes, the Utley thing was MUCH dirtier. Just plain dirty. They better plunk him good the next time they face him!

[sigh]�But they won’t.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Greg, yes, which is why I said they’d have to throw something else solid into the deal. Not just a fringe prospect, but a good one or a player on the current roster. In my opinion, that’s only way that makes sense.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

**Everybody, we could be close to getting Jason Bay! Pirates ownership turned down a four prospect deal including Lil’Bridge, Brandon Jones, and two others. But then Bowman says Wren is still working on getting Bay. I think Wren and Cox are going for it this year. 7.5 after all is not impossible to pull off. Think about it:

1.Kotsay-CF 2.Esco-SS 3.Chipper-3B 4.Tex-1B 5.B-Mac-C 6.Bay-LF 7.Frenchy-RF 8.KJ-2B

Not a bad line-up, not to mention having ether Blanco or Diaz on the bench. **

By macdwolfpack

July 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

I know that plowing into the catcher is legal and “part of the game” but at some point the Players Union or someone with common sense needs to step in and implement a change in that rule. No one should be allowed to intentionally plow into a catcher. You should be allowed to slide into a catcher guarding home plate, but no one should be allowed to come in standing up and collide with the catcher. It serves no useful purpose for the game and threatens the careers of some pretty darned good catchers. There isn’t much I would change in the game, but only a fool would not see that is a rule that has outlived its usefullnes

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Did you guys hear this one: Elias Sports Bureau said that Saturday was the first time in nearly 100 years the Braves lost a game in which they had a nine-run inning. The last time it happened was June 20, 1912.

That kind of season. That and the streak of consecutive one-run road losses dating to last August, just unbelievable stuff.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Hasn’t really been said with any emphasis, but I think that the rain delay yesterday was a blessing for the Phillies. I’dve loved our chances with Campillo on the hill with a lead against those guys. Ifs and buts, perhaps, but still worth stating for the record.

Even more important I think was Chipper’s absence in this series. I knew heading into the 3 game set that it would most likely be an offensive slugfest at the Phillies park, and it was. Gotta think that if Chipper’s in the lineup that he at least helps us score one or two on Saturday and one or two on Sunday. Would’ve made a big difference.

By 57Braves

July 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Brave fan forever and will always be one, but this year has been one of the most frustrating. Unfortunately Tex will be gone (either by Thursday or by ‘09) and in retrospect that trade was not what we all had hoped for. Slim chance of getting anyone who can compare to what we gave up for him. The Braves are in a spot now where they can actually get better just by getting rid of some players. “Addition by Subtraction.” No one can argue that this team would be better without Corky Miller, Royce Ring, Julian Tavarez, Ruben Gotay, Greg Norton. I’d rather give those spots to someone who has a chance of someday being a player than wasting roster space.

Will be an interesting next few days, but I am not optimistic about the outcome. Take care BMac, you are the MAN.

By Renegator

July 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

From mlbtraderumors.com:

According to Mark Bowman of MLB.com:

A proposed deal, which would have brought Jason Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.

Bowman believes Pirates targets might include Brent Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, a talented A ball pitcher, and a marginal position player prospect. He says the Braves will continue to pursue Bay.

By NASCAR Dave

July 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

When they trade TEIXERA they need to send FRANCOEUR with him…

Friggin LOSERS…

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Bay would obviously be a perfect fit for Braves, but as we’ve said before, Pirates are asking king’s ransom for him, from Braves or any other team. Personally, I can’t see it happening.

By ATLien

July 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Great stuff DOB. Everyone who is complaining about the McCann / Vic play must not know baseball, because the play was clean. Vic even stayed there to make sure Brian was “o.k.”.

And those of you who want to keep Tex, reality check - we won’t be able to re-sign Tex at the end of the season so the only reason to keep him would be if we had a legitimate shot at the playoffs, which we do not. Trade him now and get some solid young guys in return.

I really like Kotchman - I hope the Braves push for him fingers crossed.

By nate

July 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Is a package possible of Ohman and Tex for Conor Jackson? Could the D-Backs use Ohman?

By Lee in S GA

July 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

It looks like the Rangers might want to trade Saltalamacchia. Any chance the Braves get him back to be 1B next year?

How about just to be McCann’s backup. Salty has not convince anyone he is a proven starter this season. He is certainly good enough to be Miller’s replacement.

By NASCAR Dave

July 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

That kind of season. That and the streak of consecutive one-run road losses dating to last August, just unbelievable stuff.

Excuses, excuses, excuses…

Don’t you get it??? This team is just NOT THAT GOOD!!!

Duh!!!

Time for the REBUILD…

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

WE MUST BE CLOSE! To getting Bay…I mean, Bowman says that the Bravos walked into the clubhouse “expecting” to see Bay there this weekend. The players would not be expecting as much if the wheels weren’t rapidly turning. Can you imagine the spark Bay could start in the clubhouse and in the lineup? Morale would be so high, because then the players would know that no one is giving up.

By Sandro

July 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Dimel� Mr. O’Brien, if you are ever in the Bi�nnale, please find me! I would love to have you and prominent video artist Knox Harrington to my home to listen to Autobahn LP’s and discuss the Braves.

By don

July 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Using much of O’Brien’s logic, I suppose the Tigers got the best of the Alexander-Smoltz trade since Alexander led the Tigers to a championship and Smoltz didn’t play in the major leagues at all that year.

The tragedy of the trade with the Rangers will be played out over the next ten or fifteen years.

And, unlike Alexander, Teixeira produced nothing.

Dumb trade then. Devastatingly dumb now.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Can’t see D-Backs giving up Conor Jackson.

Angels could sure use both Tex and Ohman. That’s why I don’t think Kotchman’s a dead proposal. If Braves could get Kotchman and another lesser piece or two from Angels, that might be a good fit.

By j-school dropout

July 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Please tell me that we aren’t going to really give up Brandon Jones for Jason Bay. That would be idiotic. We don’t have a prayer this season. Our best bet would be to trade Tex to whomever and move Chipper to first. Yes, I know he doesn’t want that. Sorry. It’s for the good of the ball club. Besides, it’s going to happen next year anyway and it won’t matter if we win another game this year. All we’re doing now is playing out the string and giving some guys some at-bats and some innings to get them ready for next year.

Regarding Jonas Brothers on cover of Rolling Stone. That rag lost any musical relevance when it put Britney and NSync on its cover all those years. The only decent music magazine now on the market is Paste, but I find it very dry. I miss the days of CREEM. That was a great rock ‘n’ roll magazine.

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Great job DOB! Thanks to Carroll for doing a great job this weekend also!

Hex has a LOSER’s mentality. I’m sure other teams have picked up on his willingness to graciously accept being ABSENT until June.. He’s a subliminal cancer, that’s why summa Y’all can’t see it. I wear my Gorilla At Large 3-D glasses during games, so I don’t have that problem. I tried telling Y’all early-on that games lost in April were gonna show up in September. But, to quote the April-May Slacker,” “it’s a marathon…” I’ve never seen a marathon runner sleep through the opening third of a race. Wonder if he’d still have a chance to win? Hell, lets get it from an experienced marathoner! Howboutit Hex!?

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I’m not down with draft picks for Tex.

Draft picks are like a box of chocolates. You never know which ones are going to suck.

I’d rather see the Braves get a player that can hold down first base (or play third in case of Chipper injuries) like Chad Tracy and prospects. At least they’ll have a big league player to slot in. I can’t see the D-Backs giving up Conor Jackson. This is one of those situations where I think Frank Wren needs to take what he can get. If he gets a solid player like Tracy in return for Tex, he will have a player of the same age as Tex that can be a useful starter for at least a couple of seasons.

Of course, something that might even make more sense would be to include Will Ohman into the deal. (I was actually typing this as you did so, nate. Looks like we’re thinking along the same lines.) The D-Backs don’t have a lefty reliever of his caliber. I’d accept Max Scherzer and Chad Tracy (and a solid prospect) for Tex and Ohman. The D-Backs may not want to do it, but the fact that they’re not relying on Scherzer and Tracy this season might make it easier for them to make such a calculated move. Not willing to give up Conor Jackson, the D-Backs might decide that trading Scherzer is a necessary evil for getting a deal done.

Besides, they already know that Tex and Ohman can step in and truly upgrade their lineup (Jackson moves to left to allow Tex to play first) and bullpen. There’s just no doubt about that.

By Heath

July 28, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

nate:

If we package both of our best trading chips for basically 1 guy…we should also consider 57Braves idea….addition by subtractin. Basically tell people…we’ll give you tex, ohman and (fill in the blanks here with guys we don’t need) for just one guy (preferrable conor jackson. Hell…even offer to pay their salaries for the rest of the year. Ohman and Tex are only under contract until the rest of the year anyway…and the point of trading tex, etc is to get exactly what you need (not want—but need) for next year anyway. Think about FW…this year is lost anyway…

By bgvt

July 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Not to be picky — but the Braves did not blow a 9-run lead on Saturday. It was a 9-3 lead. I noticed the Elias quote in Bowman’s article, too. A brain cramp on the part of some stathead at Elias.

By Josh C

July 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I know we are (rightfully so) in sell mode. That said, do you think a package of Reyes, Hanson, Schafer, and KJ have a chance of landing Halladay? This would be more for next year obviously, but I think I’d give up the future with Hanson for two years of Halladay. Thoughts?

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Jake, that’s because A-Rod told Boras to visit Hell before resigning with the Skankees!

By Stephen

July 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you are probably right about them not thinking he was their 1B. I just had wishful thinking that they gave up on him too early thinking they could get Tex for 2 playoff runs. I just don’t like the idea of Thorman being our 1B, and I don’t know what else is out there.

By Catfish

July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Proposed Jason Bay Deal: Lillibridge has the potential to be a better offensive SS than Escobar, so this may be a blessing in disguise. Look at Lillibridge’s SB and HR totals in the minors…..Escobar is great defensively, but offensively, he is still a question regarding his potential. Let’s keep Lillibridge.

By Cecil34

July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

What DOB wrote about Tex confirms what baseball fans know - it takes a team of players to win games. That is why you have to trot 9 out there day in and day out.

No one man can win them all by himself.

The team has to get production out of every position on the major league level. Some will produce more than others but they all must meet certain minimums.

This team has certain players that are well under the minimums.

Therefore it negates what value Tex brings to the team. There are positives and there are negatives….

Tex was brought here under the best of intentions, but other weaknesses surfaced that cancelled out Tex’s positives.

And Tex has proven to be the type of player that is not capable of playing hard when others can’t.

So a slow start is team suicide.

Like I wrote in April, games given away in the first month of the season would sure come in handy in September.

I sincerely hope management in the future learns something on the Tex transaction and how it has turned out.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

For everyone clammoring to get Jason Bay - why??? The Braves are 7.5 games back and while I hate like hell to give up the season it’s not looking realistic that the Braves are going to be able to make a comeback. Especially with Chipper likely headed to the DL and don’t discount the Concussion McCann received yesterday - sometimes concussions have lasting effects on players and he may not bounce back very quickly.

So without our two best hitters for what could be an extended period of time how are we suposed to stay in this thing and not just stay in it make up 7.5 games and overtake 3 teams ahead of us? Adding Bay isn’t going to be enough - hell we scored plenty of runs over the weekend and we lost 2 out of 3 anyways. This season is over - it’s time to build for next year.

By Dadgum

July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

A good team has chemistry and this one ain’t a good team. Having said that, Francouer has had a cancer affect on this team in the chemistry lab. Forget his sub Mendoza line average and his 9-2 outs, the dude simply isn’t the caliber RF the Braves need and I am sick of his whining. I see him as a throw-in during a big trade week involving Tex. If not then I would send him to AAA Richmond ubtil Sept. call ups to make room for Morton.

The Braves are in need of starting pitching so badly that FR must be going nuts finding the pitching in return for TEX. Not many top teams willing to part with proven starters. Nevertheless I would love to have a Micah Owings and a RH bat from the D’Backs for Tex.

With the Braves having a 1 in 10 shot even with a trade to make the playoffs I would bring Thorman up to play 1st when Tex is traded. Assuming they don’t land a 1st baseman via another trade. Another trade scenario I would pursue is Kelly Johnson unless the Braves move him back to outfield. Which they won’t or they would have done so. Prado most likely has solidified 2nd base and Escobar at SS. Infante is too valuable as a Chipper backup/utility guy. Leaves Johnson as odd man out but still a valuable trade piece.

Rock on….ya’ll think about it.

By wanax

July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Why go out and get Bay and give up a bunch of prospects so we can finish third in the east instead of fourth.

If wren keeps Tex and Ohman and sells the farm to bring in Bay and we somehow win the East or the wildcard, what do we have to look forward to in the postseason? The cubs, phils, or mets who we can’t pitch to or the Dbacks or dodgers who we can’t hit.

Wren needs to rebuild and give up the pipedream of making a comeback run.

By ppaddy123

July 28, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

DOB The Braves 1st baseman of the future is our all-star catcher. Plays like the collision at home yesterday are exactly the reason the team should move their best young hitter. It will allow the Braves to keep his bat in the line up everyday. It will keep him healthy and provide a longer career for him. This just seems like a “no brainer” to me. Tex will not bring the stellar 1st baseman as you have suggested. Why not fill another weakness with this trade?

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

What if Wren pulls both triggers? i mean, it’s not too far-fetched to say that if we get Bay, then Wren could turn around and trade Tex to Arizona or LA. I wouldn’t mind having Bay in left and Connor Jackson @ 1B. We’d have both next year, Jackson for a few, and then with the free money avalible from Hampton, Smoltz, and Glavine being gone after 2009, sign Bay to an extension. If Schafer does better, and Frenchy wakes up anytime, an OF of Bay, Schafer, Frenchy, and Kotsay on the bench wouldn’t be too bad.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Kris, so Bay can’t be a piece for next year?

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you are probably right about them not thinking he was their 1B. I just had wishful thinking that they gave up on him too early thinking they could get Tex for 2 playoff runs. I just don�t like the idea of Thorman being our 1B, and I don�t know what else is out there.

LOL……..Could you picture that???

Francoeur, Thorman and KJ in the same lineup???

That could be something.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Josh C, the Blue Jays have Halladay locked up through 2010. I doubt the Jays would take the risk with those players.

By NCBravesFan

July 28, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

DOB Do you think the Braves are of a mindset that they are trading/tweaking in order to contend next year, or is the coming trade deadline the first wave of more sweeping changes that could lie ahead?

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Please Mr. Wren… get Jason Bay in an Atlanta Braves uniform. He’s a perfect fit for this team!

By Goodoleboy58

July 28, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Couple of things… I wouldn’t mind giving up Brandon Jones for Jason Bay because even if we didn’t have a playoff push next year Jason Bay could net us a better prospect then BJ at the trading deadline…

Secondly, I’m really pushing for the Loney trade… I think he is the best option out there so we shall see.. It’ll be an interesting next couple of days thats for sure.

Also in regards to the “value” of Tex we never know.. I know the team that gets him will only have him for 1 playoff push but maybe they’ll go the Brewers route and sell the farm for a chance this year..

A scenario we haven’t discussed is Tampa Bay. They could use a solid 1B and still let Carlos Pena DH. I mean the guys only hitting .243 this year (a smooth .200 against lefties)… They are going to need some veteran help to fight off the Yanks and Red Sox… They probably wouldn’t resign him at the end of the year ala the Brewers and CC but they’d be more then happy to take the 2 draft picks and plan for the future..

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

As bad as our season has been……..I wouldnt expect nothing but a bad trade………just to keep it going.

I just hope they dont focus on pitching…….we all know there is no such thing as enough pitching………but as bad as our offense and leadership has been………pitching is the last thing we need……… plus we get Moylan back for next season……….Id say if soriano finishes the season strong and Gonzo keeps it going………our bullpen is fine……..Keep Carlyle, keep Ohman.

Send JoJo Packing with James or at least one of the 2.

Please dont resign Glavine………keep smoltz but dont him for starting……..long relieve should be great for him.

What about hampton? If he finishes strong……….try working a bargain with him………Not sure about it, but if he is going to give a discount to anybody……..its going to be us………I say ……….try him again, but not Glavine.

Keep Infante……….the guy is just great utility player……outstanding.

Send Norton packing. Keep Prado.

Send KJ to LF and put Lilly in 2B.

By gotigers72

July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

As someone else posted, I would NOT take Chad Tracy in a trade for Teixeira. He doesn’t hit lefties, and he is a below average fielder. As far as Arizona, it would be Conor Jackson or no trade.

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Yes, (and trust me, I’m not on a beligerent “bring back Salty” bandwagon)

I don’t think the Braves decision to trade Salty was purely a “he can’t provide us value at first base” decision; but rather it was a “look at what Mark Teixeira can (hopefully) do for us now” decision.

And yes, Salty was a natural catcher; but, he was blocked at that position, which is why he had been shifted to first base by the Braves.

He isn’t a first baseman, but that doesn’t mean that he can’t become one.

I only brought this up because he A) he appears to be available, B) if we lose Tex, 1B appears to be vacant next year, C) McCann could also (theoretically) be moved, not likely, but it’s not against the rules. After seeing him get clobbered at home yesterday it really elevates the point of whether or not you want your best player (2nd really, but Chipper is getting old) risking injury behind the plate.

By Daren

July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Tex is a slow starter because he wants to be in his prime of the season in the second half… and the postseason. This isn’t a new trend. His weight training is centered around being at his best late in the season and the Braves knew that when they traded for him and they know it now. What is it going to take for Liberty to realize Tex is worth signing to a long term deal to solidify the corner infield positions for the next five years? Three seasons at nearly .500 baseball in one of baseball’s toughest divisions doesn’t mean it’s time to panic and break up the team. Atlanta isn’t a small market team and it needs to start spending like it. With Mike Hampton’s ridiculous contract (it wasn’t THAT ridiculous when he signed it) ending this year it’s time to start keeping players in their prime like the Braves of the 90s.

Come on Frank, bypass Boras and negotiate directly with Tex. It saved the Yankees a bundle with A-Rod last year.

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123,

Here’s an idea:

The Braves could sign Jason Varitek this offseason. ‘Tek certainly looks like he’s entering the twilight of his career. He and McCann could split the catching duties next year, allowing McCann, after being allowed to start some at first base in the second half this year, to start at first base more often.

(I have no idea how that would fit with my proposed acquisition of Chad Tracy, but it’s an idea, at least. Lord knows we don’t have enough ideas offered here. I’m just trying to help.)

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Wanax, a trade for Bay would be more about the future than about this season, about having a power-hitting outfielder next year. They need one who’s ready, who doesn’t have a lot of question marks.

By Captain Obvious

July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone think Scott Thorman would be a good fill in at 1B? That guy is absolutely horrible. I’d rather have Norton at first than Thorman. Scott Thorman should’ve been released years ago! While we’re at it let’s bring back Kolb,Reitsma,and Craig Wilson

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Kris don�t discount the Concussion McCann received yesterday - sometimes concussions have lasting effects on players and he may not bounce back very quickly.

Thanks for the uplifting words.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Bay could be a valuable piece for next year, but doesn’t it seem like the Braves have been buying high and selling low lately? I mean we got Tex last year for some of our top-rated prospects because he was THE GUY to get, and now we’re sitting here today looking at getting Chad Tracy and a mid-level prospect or two in return for him.

Right now everyone wants a power hitting right handed bat. So if we go after Bay (one of the best if not the best RH hitters available) we are going to have to give up another highly prized group of prospects to beat out the other potential suitors for him.

How is this building for the future if all we are doing is buying high and selling low? If we suck again next year are going to trade Bay before his contract runs out for another injury prone bum and a mid-level prospect?

We should have a decent amount of money to spend in the off-season so let’s just wait and see what is available then instead of giving up some more highly prized prospects when everyone is trying to get the same guy. Let someone else give up their farm system for Bay.

By Cork

July 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

McCann’s out. A full week of Corky behind the plate. Feels like it’s the 80’s all over again! Where ever Tex gets traded can the Braves send Boyer also to carry his bags.

By don

July 28, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Good grief! Now the morons are rumored to be trying to pull another Teixeira fiasco for Jason Bay. Don’t they ever learn?

Surely they aren’t dumb enough to trade prospects like Jones, Hernandez, Hanson, and/or (worst of all) Jason Heyward?

Unfortunately, they may well be that dumb.

By BravesFan79

July 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

If we DO become sellers… i say we trade Tex, see what we can get for Soriano and Kotsay, and perhaps get a few bats for Corky and his “defensive specialist abilities” lol… A few bats might be asking for 2 much for Corky tho…how about a bag of Cheetos for the clubhouse? Would be about as usefull…

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Three Way trade idea:

Braves get: Jason Bay, Connor Jackson,

D’Backs get: Tex, Ohman, A-Ball prospect

Pirates get: Owings, Tracy, B. Jones

By UGAFan

July 28, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Jason Bay is the perfect acquisition for this team. He’s not a Scott Boras client, and he would be able to be given a cheaper long-term deal than Mark Teixeira.

Bay would give the Braves the production they need from a right-handed bat in left field. They could easily shift Blanco in center (I do think Kotsay will be traded away too).

Plus, Bay would provide more clutch hits than Tex would. Tex has only shown a few times where he can hit in a clutch situation over almost an entire year in a Braves uniform.

Giving up Lillibridge, B. Jones, and two more prospects doesn’t seem to be a steep price to pay to get Jason Bay. If Tex is traded, he will return a prospect or two back into the farm system. Plus, the Braves would be able to keep onto their top prospects while obtaining a big bat.

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

At this point, I think any and all trades should bring back nothing but quality prospects.. It really doesn’t matter to me whether the Braves finish in 4th or 5th this year.. I’d venture to say, it’ll be 2-3 years after Cox is gone before the Braves are contenders again.

With that said, the Braves MUST get rid of the lamers in the bullpen! The only three I want to see there next year is Gonzalez, Smoltz, Stockman.

By William

July 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Anything you trade for, needs to have long-term potential. Dont bother with anyone that is a FA after only a year or two. I say you trade Tex for some young prospects, then when his salary along with Hudson/Smoltz/Glavine are off the books… we can wave a big wad of cash at some quality free-agents. Personally, I trade Escobar… He has enough potential to get something big in return, but his attitude will make him always be a problem and dissappointment I am willing to bet.

By Kentavo

July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Remember when the Phils shed Abreu and (?) at the deadline a couple of years ago and actually got better?

Maybe we need to do something like that - ship Tex and Frenchy to shake things up a bit, without totally conceding the season.

If Tex were traded for a MLB-ready 1B, such as Youk, Kotchman or Loney, it’s a play for now and the future, in my opinion.

By Kentavo

July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Remember when the Phils shed Abreu and (?) at the deadline a couple of years ago and actually got better?

Maybe we need to do something like that - ship Tex and Frenchy to shake things up a bit, without totally conceding the season.

If Tex were traded for a MLB-ready 1B, such as Youk, Kotchman or Loney, it’s a play for now and the future, in my opinion.

By Threadkiller

July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

“Good things come to those who wait!!” Not during the trading deadline!! Sheeesh, we could have made this deal a week ago and got the players the Yankees did!

By TNJeff

July 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Dodgers have benched Andruw - just think he & Frenchy could be stinking it up together in the Bravos line-up since Cox would never risk hurting his players feelings by such a move.

ANY CHANCE BRAVES DEAL FRENCHY?

By James

July 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

To all those Braves coaches and management who said back in June “it’s to early to panic”, I guess now it’s past time to panic. Why wouldn’t you belive the vast majority of us who kept saying that a win now is one you wont have to win in August? A win is a win no matter when it happens, just like a loss is a loss. That cool business like demeanor has gotten this team nowhere in three years. Chipper said himself that Bobby Cox is the “same now as he has always been.” Does anybody besides me see a problem with that comment? Chipper is right, Cox hasn’t changed. Opposing teams have adjusted to beat “Bobby Ball” You know, no stealing, no hit and run,just sit back and wait for a bomb, he’s gonna bring in Boyer to pitch, now Ring is coming in to pitch. How PREDICTABLE! Every game it’s the same thing! Maybe now that the season is lost, Cox will entertain some new baseball concepts like stealing a base, not worrying about a lefty/righty matchup, bunting etc. And who cares if you have been thrown out of 241 ball games? It’s not firing anyone up anymore. Look in the stands when you do it, everyone thinks it’s pathetic.

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Maybe we should hire Wellman [Human Restasis] as batting coach. If Chronic Dry-Eye is the source of Stenchy’s vision malady, then Wellman is THE MAN!

By David-ATL14

July 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyoen considers Scott Thorman an answer to any question the denizens have here?

Anyway Thorman is departing for China today as a member of the canadian Olympic team.

So put the Thorman nonsense to rest. Thankfully.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

McFann,

Not to be all doom and gloom about it, but concussions are serious. There are tons of players who have had concussions and have taken a long time to come back - if at all. I am sure McCann will be fine, but let’s not try to rush him back or put pressure on him because we are delusional about making a run.

It’s perfectly fine to rebuild for next year and the future so let’s do it and not keep pretending like we are still in it this year.

By wanax

July 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

The bay trade doesn’t make any sense even if it is about the future.

Why give up a MLB ready OF (Jones) an extremely talented SS with offensive upside (lillibridge) AND a “good” A ball pitching prospect AND another prospect for a power hitting OF that will stay in ATL for 15 months?

One player is going to solve any of our problems (especially offensive problems) and Bay will walk after next year.

We should be stockpiling guys like lillibridge and jones. What was jason bay a few years ago? A talented prospect just like jones and lillibridge.

And don’t forget that the Pirates want MORE than Jones, Lillibridge, and two prospects.

By Goodoleboy58

July 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

I’m excited about seeing Sammons up here to catch for us… If he can do a halfway decent job maybe he’ll take the roster spot of Corky

By StingerSplash

July 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Transactions Journalists Yahoo � Signs Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe in exchange for a winning (professional) hockey team and winters that don’t suck out loud.

Still think Yahoo got the better end of that deal.

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

With that said, the Braves MUST get rid of the lamers in the bullpen! The only three I want to see there next year is Gonzalez, Smoltz, Stockman.

I forgot Moylan, and he is welcome in the pen!

This assumes Ohman will be traded and/or not resigned. Sorry, we like to waste money on people like Soriano so no money for you!

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Yes, yes, it’s true, the Braves are going to trade Hanson, Hernandez, Schafer (sp.), Heyward, and Jones for Jason Bay.

We are going to trade every single one of our prospects because we don’t know what we’re doing.

Meanwhile, we’re going to trade Escobar for Renteria and McCann for Pudge (because we owe the Tigers a couple of favors).

Our line-up

CF Blanco SS Renteria RF Francoeur (extended for 5 years, $60 million) 3B Chipper LF Bay C Pudge Rodriguez 2B Kelly Johnson 1B Thorman

Yes, we have a plan!

Your 2009 Atlanta Braves!

By bravesfaninmetsland

July 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

You know, while I never got down on tex in his slow start and always thought he was a good player, I have to agree with the SI article. I mean think about it, as good as he is, tex isn’t one of those players that set the tone for a team. He didn’t have the impact McGriff or Big Cat did when they came here.

And as good as he’s played the last bunch of weeks, when this season started and he stunk Chipper carried this team and kept them in it. Now that Chiipper’s cooled off, although Tex is playing well, can you really say he’s carried this team? No. Thanks for your year of service Tex, and good luck in Arizona you’ll need it.

By Cecil34

July 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

McFann

I sure wish Mac had been playing first yesterday, how about you?

Now, we don’t have his bat for a few….

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

bgvt

You need to read that Elias stat more closely.

It didn’t say the braves blew a 9 run lead. It says it’s the first time since 1912 the braves lost after scoring 9 runs in 1 inning.

By Original Jon

July 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Kris Basically the Braves would be adding Bay for next year, and if it somehow magically sparked the team to make a drive for this year, then thats an extra added bonus. But Bay would more than likely be a trade that benefited us next year, not this one. But, I imagine if we could get Bay this year and trade Tex for a Casey Kotchman type player, theres no reason they should fully give up on this season. But the bullpen has to have something done to it, we cannot keep running out the same players in the close and late innings and expect to win, we should have swept the Phillies this weekend, but no, we lost huge leads late the past two games, so I say, try to trade Tex for Kotchman and another bullpen arm and keep Ohman.

By Dadgum

July 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

How can Thorman be going to the Olympics? Isn’t he under contract to the Braves? Was it written into his contract that he could play in the Olympics? Did he ask the Braves and they said OK? Just curious….

Rock on…..

By wanax

July 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

What type of salary will Jason Bay command after next season?

If we did make a deal for him, what is the likelihood that we could keep him after next year?

By Jeff R

July 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Does management really need to aquire a major league 1st baseman in exchange for Super Tex? As DOB wrote, short of a guarantee, what team is going to give up a really good first sacker under contract to take a chance on Super Tex?

Let’s not forget the Renter�a deal with Detroit. If Wren could snag a couple of near-ready prospects, I think that would be a heckuva good deal.

By Deb Mavrick

July 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Delusional! For five years many inside and out of baseball have said the Braves orginization was not even close to being the class of the National leauge let alone the East division.

Now with the Mets and Phillies stocked to make 5 year runs at it every season and the Marlins not close behind it’s time for Brave’s fans to get read up on pre-1990 Braves history!

Trade for Tex for two post-season runs in 2006 & 2007. The Mets crushed the east in ‘06 & the Phillies did it in ‘07. Now it looks as if the Fish will do it ‘08.

What’s next the Nats in ‘09, one thing for sure it won’t be the Bravos anytime soon!

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

You’re right Kris, concussions can cause lingering vision problems among many others.

By Sell now

July 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Braves trade Mark Teixiera to the D-Backs for Chad Tracy, Jarrod Parker, Barry Enright and Gerardo Parra.

Braves trade Will Ohman to the Yankees for Jesus Montero.

Braves trade Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge, Cole Rohrbough and Jon Mark Owings to the Pirates for Jason Bay.

Done, Done and Done.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB and the Braves website has been awful quiet today….i say something is going down…

By Jeff

July 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Man, I’d bet Eddie Perez can still hit better than Corky. We’d be better off activating him to back up Sammons tonight. I still can’t figure out not keeping Bryan Pena and although I think Escobar should suck it up, he hasn’t been the same since Pena was dealt.

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Are the Teixeira jerseys on sale at the Braves store yet?

By GB

July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

brent a., If the Braves thought Saltalamacchia could become an above average firstbaseman, I’m guessing they would have thrown in other pieces in the trade for Tex instead of Saltalamacchia. They would have done all they could to not include Salty in that trade.

It’s as much about offensive value as defensive value. If Salty plays first, you have a below average offensive and defensive firstbaseman.

Braves get: Jason Bay, Connor Jackson,

D�Backs get: Tex, Ohman, A-Ball prospect

Pirates get: Owings, Tracy, B. Jones

I don’t think the D-Backs would give up Conner Jackson for two months of Tex, a relief pitcher and a prospect that’s at least two or three years from the big leagues and probably more.

And I’m not sure why the Pirates would want a 28-year-old corner infielder/outfielder who is solid but nothing special; a pitcher who probably isn’t anything more than a mid rotation guy at best; and an okay corner outfield prospect for their most valuable commodity.

This would be a steal for the Braves and not a wise move at all for the other two teams.

TNJeff, why would the Braves give up on Frenchy at this point (unless they are “blown away” which isn’t going to happen)? If he has a .288 OBP at this time next season, maybe they’ll look into other options. But why give up on a 24-year-old with some potential?

By glove51

July 28, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Would the Pirates trade Bay straight up for Francouer?

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Deb. Anything else?

By GB

July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

DOB My memory is crap, but didn’t Francoeur get beaned earlier in the year? I’d be curious to see how he was hitting before that.

By Joe

July 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

BFan 79 the Cheetos quote was awesome. Also Brent that is a perfect lineup.(ha-ha). Why not trade Tex for ManRam

By Randy

July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Here’s what should happen: Braves trade Tex and Ohman to Red Sox for Justin Masterson,Brandon Moss,and Sean Casey….Red Sox trade Manny to Mets for prospects,and move Youkilis to LF…everybody wins-Sox get rid of Manny problem and use his money to sign Tex long-term and get the bullpen help they need…Braves get a 1B fill-in for a year or two and two bright prospects…Mets bring Manny home for big bat they need.

By Tomahawk Kris

July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Original Jon,

So let me get this straight - for next year we make a trade now for Jason Bay when his trade value is probably the highest it is ever going to be in the hopes that it will all redeem itself next season??? Teams building for the future don’t make moves like that - at least the smart one’s don’t.

I like Jason Bay and I think he would be great in a Braves Uni, but now is not the time to go after him and if someone else picks him up and has to pay a Kings ransom for him then by all means good for them. We aren’t conteding this year - we are contending next year and years after so lets act like it and not trade away our farm system for the hottest guy on the market.

We did that last year and look where we are today - 4th place in the mediocre NL East.

By Serge

July 28, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

How many GMS voted for Franceour in that “build a team” thing

for that matter does Wren still think the 3 days in AA fixed him? Please ask him Dave

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

I agree that we need to hang on to Ohman.

By Joe

July 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Frenchy will be traded to Royals for DeJesus

By Paul In Richmond

July 28, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

What is sad is that the fans DO want a winner. I remember a standing ovation for Tex when he came to bat - not because he did anything particularly spectacular - but because the fans had hope that the team would have a spark. A fire. A wave of emotion that would boost them.

Then Tex, like so many of the others, seemed to fall into a lethargic, business as usual, drumbeat. He is a careful solid hitter and an excellent glove but he is not a team leader and nobody is going to rally a group around him. Frankly his stats do not match all the hype. My guess is that there is less interest in him that all the posters believe.

No, the problem is the leadership. The Cox pattern of letting bad hitters hold lineup spots even when they stink. The Jones pattern of playing part time and sitting part time. And the trainers who should all be fired for allowing professional athletes to come down with strains, sprains, pulls, and Gosh knows what else. (maybe this team needs to do some exercises every day and play some music in the lockerroom. Maybe we need some “team meetings” and some knock down pitches and even some brawls to prove that this bunch is alive and kicking)

But lets remember - one or two new players will not turn this group around. Not without a sea change in attitude.

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

What would the Braves have done with Saltalamacchia in 07 and 08 if they had kept him and still acquired Teixeira?

How would playing him behind Brian McCann once every 5 days have helped him progress into an above average first baseman?

Also, considering the ransom they paid to acquire Teixeira, what do you think they could have placed into the deal in lieu of Salty? Wasn’t he essentially the center piece for that deal?

By Greg O.

July 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

I can’t see the Braves luring any of the desired first basemen discussed (Kotchman, Loney, CoJack, Youkilis) for Tex. I, admittedly, have been on the Trade-Tex Bandwagon since things went downhill in June, but that was under the assumption that the trade market would be far better for a slick-fielding, power-hitting run-producer at first base. But unless the Braves can get Max Scherzer or Jarrod Parker from the DBacks, Nick Adenhart from the Angels or Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers (i.e. top pitching prospects), I’m all for the Braves holding onto Tex, keeping some hope alive for this season, negotiating with him in the offseason, and if they lose him, so be it. Take the two draft picks and move on. I’m just not convinced the Braves could get either one elite prospect or two players that would turn out better than the two potential top-40 picks in next year’s draft. For the most part, the playoff contenders this season just aren’t in dire need of first basemen.

I’d keep the same strategy in mind for Ohman, as well. I’d imagine he ranks similarly to Ron Mahay last year, meaning he’d net the Braves a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds of the draft. If the Braves can’t get a player better than that (keeping in mind that Joba Chamberlain was taken in this area of the draft a few years ago), I say keep him around and see if he’ll sign in the offseason. It’s apparent that he likes Atlanta and I think the Braves have a fair shot at keeping him. Again, if he bolts, I think the Braves could put the draft pick to good use.

By ppaddy123

July 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if anyone cares, or not, but Valdosta, Ga. has just been named “Title Town USA” by ESPN. You may all return to your regular programming.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Wanax, I didn’t say it made sense, and I didn’t say the Braves offered those players. I’m just commenting that if the Braves traded for Bay, it’d be about next season more than about making a highly unlkely run this season.

And no, I wouldn’t give up four strong prospects including a top pitching prospect to get him. One year after the Braves were ripped in many quarters for trading five prospects to get Tex and Mahay, how much do you think they’d get ripped for trading four prospects to get Bay?

Not that I think that would have anything to do with their decision to do such a deal. I just don’t think they’re going to trade away that much talent for a player of Bay’s caliber (very good player, but not a great player).

I think they’d give up a few good-to-fringe prospects, maybe even a top (non-pitching) prospect or two. But I can’t see giving up more than that, including a package that includes one of their top pitching prospects.

By LivininAL

July 28, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Well one thing Tex mentioned was correct, the remainder of this year is gonna be a hella of a long MARATHON for Braves fans!!

By Kootchypop

July 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur for Zach Grienke

Kelly Johnson for Brian Roberts

Tex for Kotchman & Prospect

By TNJeff

July 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I don’t think Frenchy will agree to go back down to the minors & Cox won’t bench wonderboy for the better of the team.

Frenchy did good in minors because of inferior talent & perhaps they didn’t know the angle on him (can’t hit high hard stuff but will swing most every time). SO, perhaps minors isn’t the answer either as far as him working out his problems.

Sensing another Brad Komminsk in the making / look at our former center fielder - benched & I think his career is in serious jeopardy!

By Jeff R

July 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Management isn’t going to hang on to Ohman; they’re just not going to give mid thirties reliever a multiyear/multi-million dollar contract.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

wanax,

Brandon Jones had an opportunity to win the LF job in the spring and didn’t. The Braves OF have a total of 20 HR. And yet Brandon Jones is still playing in Richmond.

Bay has hit more than 20 HR in five major league seasons and more than 30 HR in two. Jones has hit more than 10 in one minor league season.

If you think Jones is equal to Bay in talent (or even potential), then you’re seeing something that everyone else is missing.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Not sure if i can answer your question, but I am reminded of a line from Christmas Vacation.

“She falls down a well, her eyes go crossed. She gets kicked by a mule, they go back.”

I mean getting beaned by a pitch ain’t exactly fallin’ down a well, but maybe we can find ourselves a mule.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Kris—

I know concussions are serious things. He’s going to come back, but I hope they don’t rush him either. Wait at least a week�maybe more�well, I don’t know.

Like I said, if they DL’d him now (which I doubt), then he’s eligible to come off it the day before we attend our next game�

Cecil34—

I don’t know�he’s never played first before. But I sure as heck wish Ryan Howard hadn’ta made contact on that pitch from Ring!

By TNJeff

July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Also, by this time next year IF Frenchy is continuing in this slump - the Braves won’t get ANYTHING for him in a trade.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

it’s now or never in terms of Bay, and hopefully Wren gets this deal done. Because then we can re-sign him. People are saying we can get Bay later…there’s no way we trade for him next year, and after that he’ll be long gone to another team. I say trade B. Jones, Lil’Bridge, and Chucky James W/ K. Kaaihue to Pittsburgh for Bay and some cash considerations.

By TommyP

July 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Best time of the baseball season….trade deadline talk.

Doesn’t get better, especially if your team is involved as a buyer or seller.

Gonna be interesting to see what Wren can do. The Renteria deal has turned out incredible.

The Kotsay deal hasn’t been great but hasn’t been horrible, either. I just think they went the wrong way with whom they acquired.

By Ed Glennon

July 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I was very unimpressed with Tex’s answer to the question whether a possible trade bothers him. It doesn’t bother him. He will go where the money is. I liked it that Kotsay was a little nervous and even Ohman. Tex is fine with Atlanta or Pittsburg, doesn’t matter to Tex. Get rid of him.

By IgCognito

July 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Another Stark post regarding Braves on MLBTradeRumors:

“Braves lefty Will Ohman is drawing plenty of interest, with the Tigers, Rays, Yankees, and Cardinals named as suitors. Perhaps the Yanks’ interest will diminish now that they have Damaso Marte.”

By BostonBravesGirl

July 28, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Randy, according to the Boston Globe today, the Mets don’t want Manny, and the Sox are pretty well enamoured of Justin Masterson right now, so I don’t see them getting rid of him.

I’d support a trade of Youk for Tex; I love Youk’s grittiness and his guts (and he’s cheap!), but so do the Sox so it won’t happen.

By Donger

July 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Some of the poeple on this blog are such morons. “Trade Reyes, KJ, Escobar, Brandon Jones… and..!” Zip it up knucklehead. Do you guys not realize that this is a young team? Why in the world would you want to trade Yunel so you can bring up an even greener kid? Reyes has been roughed up, but he’s only 23. He has great stuff and will be a stud if he puts it together.

The mentality here is to trade trade trade away our young prospects for someone like Jason Bay, who is so streaky it’s not even funny. Or Halladay (did you really say Reyes, KJ, Escobar for Halladay? What a numbskull! We need power in the outfield, but let’s not go crazy with the ludicrous trade talk.

Don’t keep giving away 4-5 top prospects or young players for one player. It never works.

By coach k

July 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

GO PETE… wish more people would be psst off should have cleared the bench after Mccann got rolled over fand this team has no guts and no balls.. it is why we have one championship. Get FRenchy out of this lineup he is killing us, pay tex, bring up Brandon Jones and shove BOOBY Cox out, he has no clue how to manange or work his pitchers, thank GOD he had Glavin , SMoltz and Maddox. Tired of the same lame excuses, the good teams get it done, 0-25 in 1 run games on the road is ludicrous

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Good article by Jayson Stark:

The most pivotal name here in Trade Deadline Week 2008 has tried his best not to read all the rumors he’s so good at inspiring. A lot of good that does him.

“People tell me about it anyway,” Mark Teixeira said. “Even if I don’t read it, people are going to tell me about it. So I hear all the rumors whether I want to or not.”

Well, if Mark Teixeira is listening, here’s what he needs to know about the next 72 hours or so:

He should keep a phone number of Allied Van Lines real handy.

As of early Monday, the Braves hadn’t glued a ribbon on Teixeira’s head and stationed him in their main display window — yet. But we’re hearing they have gathered their chief decision-makers in Atlanta for a meeting Monday afternoon.

And if Topic A at that meeting isn’t “Trade Mark Teixeira,” then it’s only because Topic A will be: “Turkey or ham?”

The feeling of clubs that have spoken with Braves GM Frank Wren is that he hasn’t seen anything lately that would convince him his team has a 41-17 run in it (which is what it would take to get to 90 wins). And neither has anyone else.

Wren followed his team to Philadelphia over the weekend, to try to get “a feel” for which way it was headed, he said. What he witnessed was almost incomprehensible — a weekend in which the Braves blew leads of five-plus runs to the same team in back-to-back games for the first time in franchise history.

“I don’t know how he could watch that,” said an official of one club monitoring the Teixeira situation closely, “and come away thinking they’ve still got a shot at this thing.”

So if the GM came away from that trip thinking what we think he’ll be thinking, it’s about to be Selling Time. And if it’s Selling Time, that means one thing:

Mark Teixeira — not Manny Ramirez — is about to zoom into the No. 1 spot on the Trade Deadline Names to Watch list.

That’s going to mean a lot of familiar-sounding trade-rumor questions flying Teixeira’s way. But at least he has his answers down cold by now. He got a lot of chances to practice them a year ago this time, when he was hanging out in Arlington, Texas, waiting for the Rangers to deal him to parts unknown.

“The only difference,” Teixeira said, “is that last year, I was kind of ready to move on from Texas. � But this year, I really want to stick it out with the Braves and see if we can make a run.”

Unfortunately, his employers have been looking hard for signs that that run has begun, and they haven’t quite seen a re-enactment of 1914, or even 1991, erupt before their eyes. The Braves are now 4-5 since the All-Star break, 9-12 this month and 23-34 since May 22. So over the past third of the season, they have a worse record than the Pirates, Royals or Giants. Not a good way to persuade a GM to conclude it’s time to go for it.

And the Braves’ players know the GM has been watching, too. Even Teixeira has apparently gotten enough second-half information to figure out that every game on the schedule this month had the potential to be the game that determined whether his team kept him or dealt him.

“We’d obviously like to win these games anyway,” Teixeira said. “But I have a little extra incentive, because I’d like to stay. I realize that things are going to happen in this game that are out of your control. And over the next two months, a lot of things are going to happen that are going to be out of my control. But once I get to free agency, that’s when I get to start making the calls.”

That’s true. But this week, it will be his general manager making the calls. And the teams, it appears, that are still in play when he dials that phone are the Diamondbacks, Rays, Red Sox and Angels.

When you analyze those three teams, however, the fit isn’t perfect anywhere, the way it was last year when Teixeira found himself the object of the Braves’, Angels’ and Diamondbacks’ transactional affection.

Tampa Bay is looking for a right-handed-hitting right fielder, not a first baseman. The Red Sox don’t have a place to fit David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell and Teixeira even if they unload Manny. The Angels love their first baseman, Casey Kotchman, and seem more focused on a low-level bullpen deal. And none of those teams would give up its first baseman for a two-month rental of Teixeira.

So that still seems to leave Arizona as the best fit. Despite reports that Atlanta would insist on getting Conor Jackson back for Teixeira, one source with knowledge of those clubs’ conversations says those reports are “not accurate.”

“‘Insist’ is not the right word,” the source said. “For one thing, there hasn’t been that much conversation. That would insinuate somebody walked away from an offer that didn’t include him. And that’s not the case.”

Would the Braves take Chad Tracy and a package of other names? We’re about to find out. But we’ve heard nothing to convince us it’s out of the question.

In the meantime, the man in the middle of this rumor storm keeps hoping there’s something he and his teammates can do to keep him in Atlanta and write another chapter in the Miracle Braves storybook.

“Last year in our division, the Phillies came back from seven down with 17 to play, right?” Teixeira observed. “The only problem is, we have three other teams in front of us. So if we’re going to make a run, we need to start chipping away pretty quick.”

No kidding. Like instantaneously.

By wanax

July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies

I don’t think Jones is equal to Bay right now. And I didn’t say that earlier.

I just said that Jones, Lillibridge, and two prospects are worth MORE COLLECTIVELY than Jason Bay for the rest of this season and next season.

I would trade Jones for Bay in a heart beat. You could even throw in a couple of hitters that are low level prospects or a pitching prospect and come out ahead in the deal.

But the pirates are asking too much for Bay and it isn’t worth it.

By IgCognito

July 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Excellent article by Stark here

By Just So You Know

July 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

This is what will happen.

Wren will make a decision on who is traded for whom or he will decide no trade be made at all.

The Braves will not be making any sort of post-season appearance this season.

This team has several holes to fill next season. It is not a quick easy fix that any one trade will cure. it will only start the ball rolling.

The baseball bloggers that are also real football fans, have a few short weeks before the season kicks off. At least we have something to look forward to.

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that the only trades that make sense for the Braves are ones where they fill holes with players already at the major league level. At least one hole and maybe then a good prospect.

Getting a 1st baseman in return, or a LF should be a no brainer if the idea is to contend next year.

Giving up B Jones and Lillbridge is too much for Bay. B Jones and Prado yes, but don’t give them back a player you got them to give up last offseason!

If we can’t fill holes, or get another stud starter, then take the draft picks.

Why all the ill will towards Boyer now? It is obvious what’s going on…he’s TIRED!!!

I pray he hasn’t reinjured his arm.

If not overused, he’s a stud in the pen. Same for Acosta. If getting injured could ever be a blessing, it might in the case of Acosta.

DOB why no injury update for Acosta? Seems to me the Braves miss him in the pen?

By Original Jon

July 28, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Andy K Why would the D-Backs give up Jackson AND Tracy AND Owings for basically Tex, Ohman and a minor leaguer, bad trade on their part. Not gonna happen

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

And Shaun, Please before you go on and respond again as if I’m advocating a trade for Saltalamacchia so he can play first base next year - I’m not, and I haven’t.

I just asked and you responded. And if I comment, I’m sure you’ll respond again.

I’m sure we happen to disagree on exactly what the thought process was when the Tex trade was made, regarding Saltalamacchia’s involvement.

We can disagree and continue to discuss it, but I don’t want to anymore because I find it pretty boring, actually.

What I was bringing up earlier is that looking at next year, and what may be some limited options at 1B, would the Braves consider re-acquiring Saltalamacchia to use at either catcher (moving McCann) or 1B. that’s it. You’ve stated you don’t think the Braves would’ve traded Saltalamacchia if they thought he could be an above average first baseman. That’s fine, but it doesn’t address the other pieces, not the least of which has to do with what the Braves plan to do moving forward.

With little doubt, we will likely need an upgrade at back-up catcher next season, even if it ends up being a back-up who ends up playing everyday because McCann is shifted.

Over-all, I’d rather see us acquire a real first baseman (you know, perhaps someone of the ilk of Scott Thorman or Craig Wilson), because McCann is a great hitter, and happens to be our catcher. If you move him to first, you guarantee reduced production from behind the plate, and if the new catcher does not produce as well as our first base alternative (whomever that might be), then we have made a bad decision.

But, that being said, Saltalamacchia for cheap might be worth looking into. If not him, then maybe Laird.

By Dudeman

July 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

The Braves will not get much in return for Texiera. Who is going to give up young talent for a two month rental. Few teams can afford $20 million that his agent Scott Boras seeks. Boston, one of those teams certainly will not part with Kevin Youkilis as most Braves fans believe (more like hope) they might. If i’m the Red Sox and have won two championships without Tex, I’m thinking why do I need him? New York can also afford Tex’s asking price, but who do they have left in young talent that Atlanta needs. The Yankees don’t seem eager to part with their youngsters lately. And only an idiot GM would trade Arizona’s Conor Jackson, (.324 with a .407 OBP, with 12 homers and 55 RBI. That includes a sublime .396 average and 1.137 OPS in 96 at-bats vs. lefties). Opposing GMs know Atlanta will lose Tex at the end of the year, so why overpay. My heartburn is if Will Ohman is doing so well, why not try to resign him? Yes, the prvailing opinion is the Braves don’t want to pay the kind of money it would take to keep a middle reliever, but it’s that type of thinking that is the reason five and six run leads get blown in late July.

By ArkyTech

July 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

If we can’t get Connor Jackson, maybe the Braves will settle for Chad Tracy if Arizona throws in in a right-handed bat with a little pop - preferably someone who’s played some 1B. How about Micah Owings! He could be the right-handed platoon with Tracy….pitch a little on the side…..

By monty

July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

THE Phils own the BRAves, especially when it comes to feasting on Braves pitching. Even 6-and 5 runs down there was no sense of panic on the Phils players they just grind away at you like the Yankees of the late 90’s. I don’t know who develops a game plan of how you pitch to them but whoever does it should get another job.

No one knows yet how to get their catcher out. Howard hits us .100 points higher than he does everyone else.They just demoralize you and finally make you cry uncle. I don’t know how they don’t win the East. We got spanked and Chase Utley didn’t even hit a lick

By Ron Roberts

July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I’m guessing that the Jason Bay deal might’ve gone down had we not blown two consecutive huge leads in back-to-back days over the weekend.

But offense wasn’t our problem over the weekend; and frankly, while our bullpen let us down, I believe it wasn’t that we called on our bullpen, those days; I believe it was who we called on.

Yeah, I know; hundsight’s 20/20. But as DOB pointed out, Ring and Boyer have been in decline of late, and while serviceable for us, Julian Tavares has been getting his teeth kicked in good beforehand all season.

I said it over the weekend, and it bears repeating: this series should’ve been managed like a playoff or College World Series game by Bobby Cox. Knowing how much was riding on this road trip (are we buying or are we selling?), every game mattered that much more, in the eyes of Braves’ management.

Eric Karros was horrendous, on the whole, but one valid point he made Saturday was the when a game is really “saved” versus the tried-and-true definition of ending the game in the 9th.

We needed a “save” situation out of a bona-fide “stopper” and never called on either of our two closers - Raphael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez - when they were truly needed.

Hell, the fact that we have two guys of that caliber as closers should’ve made this decision an E A S Y one for us. When Hampton walked the bases loaded, where were Will Ohman or Soriano or Gonzo?

When JoJo got into trouble after the rain delay, where were these guys, then?

I’m telling ya, it’s Bobby’s M-O to call on guys in excess; when Kenny Albert mentioned Blayne Boyer’s saturday appearance was a “league-leading” figure - I just got a knot in my stomach.

I’m not putting this entire season’s letdown on Bobby, but I do think the bullpen wasn’t used properly this weekend, especially given the importance of this past roadtrip.

We should’ve come home from a 5-1 roadtrip feeling like we’re in this thing.

About the trades options… Makes no sense for Arizona to deal with us; unless we throw in something they want that’s long term and valuable, why would they? I don’t see why the Angels would deal, either, except they might covet Ohman more than Tex, but would package ‘em for Kotchman and something of theirs that’s in question but has “potential.”

And hell, dont’ we have enough “potential” stars? Wasn’t Francoeur a “potential” star? So was Brad Komminks, wasn’t he?

I was actually encouraged by what we saw of Hampton, and think his addition to the rotation (barring, you know, an injury) will be a positive for an already pretty-good rotation; get Chipper and McCann back to health, get Diaz back in the lineup, and just stick with what we got, I say.

I don’t think there’s enough time for that to make us a serious threat to win a playoff spot, but it’s our best option for “bettering” the current Braves’ team without it costing us anything, and if/when Tex walks, we get the draft picks. Then we’ve lost nothing else, gained draft picks and have financial flexibility to better the 2009 team, which will already start off in pretty good shape, minus a hole at 1B and LF, but plenty of money to fix ‘em both with.

By J.D. Phillps

July 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Reyes has been roughed up, but he�s only 23. He has great stuff and will be a stud if he puts it together.

This statment has 2 words that do not belong together. Can anyone pick them out? I will give a clue: they reference a baseball player’s name and the other is what Matthew McConaughey is.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Kris, I think a Bay trade is a good idea for three good prospects (maybe BJones and a couple of others). But nothing more. And I don’t think the Pirates would take that. The point is, though, that Bay wouldn’t just be about this season. It would be this and next season.

What would the Braves have done with Saltalamacchia in 07 and 08 if they had kept him and still acquired Teixeira?

They would have kept him in the minors most of that time until ‘09, and brought him up to be the firstbaseman. But he’s not a firstbaseman and he was their best prospect so they gave him up to get Tex.

How would playing him behind Brian McCann once every 5 days have helped him progress into an above average first baseman?

He wouldn’t have played behind McCann every five days if he were a firstbaseman, and he isn’t likely to progress into an above average firstbaseman. Again, he would have been in the minors most of that time waiting for Tex to leave.

Also, considering the ransom they paid to acquire Teixeira, what do you think they could have placed into the deal in lieu of Salty? Wasn�t he essentially the center piece for that deal?

Not necessarily. I think the Rangers were looking to unload Tex. Granted, the Braves would have had to give up a different top prospect or a couple more lesser prospects.

I suppose your argument is that Saltalamacchia could be an above average major league firstbaseman and his position had virtually no bearing on the Braves giving him up.

But I don’t think so. I see nothing in Saltalamacchia’s minor league numbers that indicate he can one day hit like an above average major league firstbaseman. He’ll be a very good hitter but I think for a firstbaseman, he would simply be adequate at best. Throw in the fact that he’s a catcher and has always been a catcher, and I think the Braves had to move him.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Talking to someone I trust in PIttsburgh, and he tells me that Pirates ownership is completely out of the business of stopping deals and such, so he doesn’t think that happened.

He also said the Pirates are not trading Bay, by the way, unless they get exactly what they want, because with McClouth and their other OFs making no money, they can easily afford to pay Bay not just next year ($7.5 mill) but even if his salary goes to $12 mill or so after that as a free agent, and he supposedly wants to stay there, too.

Just letting you know, that’s what I hear. Like I said, it’s a person I trust and who is well connected there.

By TheCutMan

July 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

At some point in time, and I believe that time is at hand for the Braves, the franchise has to stand back and take a hard, close look at themselves to determine the best course of action at present and the near future.

That ‘look’ has to be unbiased, and one bereft of denial. FAR easier said than done, I might add.

If I’m calling the shots for the Braves, I’d look to a similar situation with my KC Chiefs and their young owner, Clark Hunt, for some guidance. For far too many seasons, the Chiefs have gone all-in for the seasoned veterans like Ty Law, Kendrell Bell, Joe Montana, and others to get that edge and over the hump into the promised land of post-season success.

It hasn’t worked out. So now comes a young Chief’s owner who has issued an edict that the team will not only build with youth but also has made it known that any coach hired in the future must be in tune with this mind-set, i.e., no more risky investments in over paid vets that most likely will have seen their best days behind them.

How will it work out? Time will tell, but the one glaring thing the Chiefs and Braves have in common is that neither team has realized any recent measure of genuine success by following the rent or lease-a-player strategy.

My view, then, is that the Braves’ upper management should go with youth, take their lumps with this current roster, not give up any of their bright farmhands and live to fight another day next year.

Will they do it? Not a chance and so, we start the merry-go-round of musical quick-fix players again. And so, someone or many someones will again say, ‘They are what they are’.

By kev

July 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Do any of these teams the Braves are looking to trade Tex to have a solid pitching prospect they could ask for? I’ve always thought the Braves needed another young #2-3 type guy in the rotation to complement Hudson and Jurrjens.

By JEB

July 28, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

I see the Braves only making a trade that will still keep them competitive for the rest of this season (still have to sell tickets) and help improve their team for next year.

The trade to LA Angels probably would work best for all parties involved. Angels CAN sign TEX for next year (have the money to do it) they will win this year and help their future chances also!

The sad part for McCann: having a concussion (even a mild one) affects your balance and vision for 2 - 3 weeks, sometimes more. After he comes back, it would be a miracle if he does not struggle. Let’s keep our prayers up for him! A concussion is jolt to the brain and nervous system. Swellinng and and adjustment follow.

I totally agree the players union needs to step up and force a rulling that a runner must be making an attempt to get to the base (sliding, etc.) NOT plowing through a catcher to get to a base! You’re not allowed to do it at any other base, why shoul home plate be an exception! (Just because the catcher has gear on??)

This is all a personal note to me. I’ve watched my son play the position from little league, high school, college, and minors. I’ve seen the blows and watched the recovery. I’ve seen some serious injuries take place, knowing changes needed to be made!

By Ron Roberts

July 28, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

The Chad Tracy talk seems worth listening to, if it’s true. Tracy’s no Texiera, but he’s no Adam LaRoche, either. In fact, I think he’s somewhere in between, statistically speaking.

Getting him and Jason Bay for this and next season wouldn’t be much about this yer, but sure would set us up for 2009 with a balanced squad, positionally.

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Trade Tex to Cincy for Ryan Freel!

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Tex, Chuck James, Jerome Gamble for CoJack and Owings

Lil’Bridge, Jones, Teheran, Matt Young for Bay

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What you heard from your Pirates’ source makes a heck of a lot more sense than the notion that — if they wanted to move Bay — they would turn down a package the caliber of Jones, Lillibridge and a couple of other prospects.

That’s a nice return for Bay, providing two guys who could be in your lineup immediately and two others who may not be far behind. Jones is no Bay, but Lillibridge could be a big improvement over Wilson, and for much less money all told.

By Shaun

July 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

brent a., I think the Braves will find a “real” firstbaseman if and when they part ways with Tex, whether it be Tracy or Kotchman or Loney (or someone else).

Another thing that makes looking at Salty a slim possibility, in my mind, is the Braves have always put a premium on at least adequate defense (except when they were absolutely shoved against the wall like last season when Thorman was horrible).

So I suspect they’ll go for an average-hitting, good glove at first over someone with decent offensive potential and a poor glove.

If Salty had the potential to put up numbers like the top 5-10 firstbasemen in the league, I think they would look into it, even if his defense wasn’t that good.

By sri

July 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Since a two-month rental of Tex is not likely to get us Connor Jackson, who else would you folks be willing to part with? I would rather part with another prospect for Connor instead of getting back Chad Tracy for Tex. Would Tex/Morton or Tex/Rohrbough be too much to give up for Connor Jackson and another prospect?

By champ

July 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Damn, that Sal Fasano trade to the Indians is really coming back to bite us in A$$ now…

By Catfish

July 28, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

The better option may be the two draft picks and the use of Tex for the rest of the year. Most of the deals mentioned here is not enough to justify a trade.

By Chad

July 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

How’s this one sound?

Tex, Ohman, Kotsay, Infante

FOR

Tracy, Owings, Chris Young

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Timmy and Chipper to DL, Braves call up some other dudes.

JEB—

Yes, it would be a miracle. Keepin’ up the prayers�

By Supes

July 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

I hope we don’t give a king’s ransom for Jason Bay, and that your source is correct. It’s for the best.

As far as trading TEX to D’Backs…hell no I don’t want Chad Tracy on this team. What are we going to do with another linedrive hitter with little power that can’t hit lefties well?

If they trade him to the D’Backs, I’d rather get some high level prospects, forget Tracy. Just get minor leaguers. At least you’ll have a chance one of them turns into an all star player, b/c D’Backs draft well and look at all the young players they’ve got going now? Upton, Stephen Drew, Connor Jackson, Young, etc. If the Braves can cash in on one or two prospects of that caliber and trade TEX so be it…but don’t bring in the RH version of Kelly Johnson at the plate and tell me he’s an equal value replacement for TEX.

TEX is a power hitter with a gold glove, yes I know about the contract deal, but looking at players alone, worth much more than Chad Tracey (who’s also been injuried somewhat).

Worst case scenario, don’t deal TEX unless you get a good deal. Take your chances in the off-season. If he walks take the the 1st round draft picks! It’s not rocket science.

Braves will have a chance to sign FA this off-season, and they are 2-3 years away with their current group of impact minor leagues when they will be ready to step up and contribute.

Make this a 2 year rebuilding process if you have to, but don’t trade TEX for Tracey and some B level prospect. Not equal value.

By CKDawg65

July 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Send Tex to Oz for some heart. This team is the most frustrating team I have ever pulled for in that they CANNOT make plays in close games to win them (pitching, fielding, or hitting). Blame it on injuries all you want, but there is something just not right in that clubhouse.

By Train Wreck Bystander

July 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

If we aren’t going to get Conor Jackson (out of the choices in the AJC story), then I say take the draft choices and don’t move Tex at all.

By Sell now

July 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

sri

Do whatever you have to do to get Jarrod Parker away from Arizona. He alone is better than two draft picks in this upcoming draft.

Tracy, Parker and Parra for Tex.

From the Angels?

Morales, Adenhart and Walden.

Either deal should be welcomed by any intelligent Brave fan.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

The weird thing is that braves.com says that Jeff Bennett is a catcher.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

�We�d obviously like to win these games anyway,� Teixeira said. �But I have a little extra incentive, because I�d like to stay. I realize that things are going to happen in this game that are out of your control. And over the next two months, a lot of things are going to happen that are going to be out of my control. But once I get to free agency, that�s when I get to start making the calls.�*

I’m not going to go too far but this strikes me as Tex wanting to stay in Atlanta long term….It just does because what player would say they don’t want to be traded when the teams he could go to are basically already in the post-season. I don’t expect him to say he WANTS to be traded, but alteast the…it’s business and such….but this strikes me as odd that he’d say it, considering people are bent on him leaving due to FA.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Just ran upstairs to make sure you all have seen the item on our site that I called in from clubhouse.

Anyway, Hudson AND Chipper to DL. Hudson wanted to pitch tonight, but Bobby said no way, no reason to risk it now, gonna miss couple turns. Elbow just hadn’t improved when he threw Sunday.

Reyes optioned to Richmond.

Morton (starting tonight) and Bennett both activated and Sammons brought up as expected. Sammons is catching Charlie tonight.

Campillo starting tomorrow, the Jurrjens and Hampton in last two games of the series.

By Patrick

July 28, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

DOB,

How serious is Huddy’s injury? Because the last time the Braves sent one of their starting pitchers to the DL with “forearm stiffness” he ended up having Tommy John surgery…

and what’s up with your boy Bowman making up rumors?!?!

By Catfish

July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Conor Jackson is a problem defensively. Chad Tracy can’t hit LH pitchers. The Angels do not appear to be interested. James Loney alone is not enough, but Loney and Kemp is interesting…but the Dodgers are not going to do that. So, maybe we should just keep Tex for now and take our chances.

By ncscoots

July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

I can forgive the Braves for having an off year, happens to every team. What’s harder to forgive is that they have now forced upon the blog an extra two-plus months of moronic trade blather and nitwit next-year-itis. The offseason is bad enough for that kind of tripe, but it’s at least sufferable then. Starting it in July is probably a little more than sane men should have to bear.

Hopefully, Wren will soon do whatever it is he’s going to do. Then the blog can move on to crucifying him for whatever that was (since there’s little chance his moves will meet with the approval of most here, Wren having a brain and all).

By Greg in TN

July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens�

The time is ticking down until the non-waiver trade deadline and all that is left now is to sit Tex out in the display window and wait to see if a deal can be made. The fly in the soup this go-around is that there are very few contenders out there that has a strong need at 1B. I really don�t see the Angels of the Pacific giving Kotchman up, ditto with the Snakes and Conor Jackson. If I had my druthers, I�d prefer Jackson, but Tracy�s homer numbers don�t look too bad when looking back earlier in his career (27 in 2005 being the high water mark). I don�t see any realistic scenario where the Dodgers trade Loney.

This team needs power desperately at a corner outfield position and at the first sack, and some guys to learn to hit behind the runner. Francoeur took a flying leap backwards this year in power and average and hasn�t learned the fine art of situational hitting. I think it�s these things along with Tex�s slow start that have torpedoed hopes on Planet Braves for 2008. Tex has guaranteed that Chipper has gotten some great pitches to hit the first half of the season and Hoss has certainly made the most of it, so if Tex leaves either via free agency or by trade, the Braves will have to address the four hole once again and get someone that can drive in runs, hit for power and provide protection for the Offensive Assassin.

It was nice to see Hampton out on the mound on Saturday before the lethal combination of a tired bully and the wiffleball stadium that the Phillies play their home games in conspired against us. Sunday�s action took a turn for the worse when BMac had to leave after the second of two collisions took their toll.

I didn�t see Utley�s play; however I have no question that the Victorino play was not a dirty play. To me, looking at the replays after seeing it live, Victorino didn�t have time to adjust to where BMac was standing after receiving the throw from Francoeur. Those things will happen, however I can�t speak to Utley�s play, and with more games with the Phils on the schedule, we might not have heard the last of yesterday�s actions.

I believe a tip of the cap to the Phillies fans are in order for their ovation for BMac as he left the game yesterday. Definitely a classy move IMO, can�t criticize them for what they do on the bad side without giving them their due for times like yesterday.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

who the HECK is going to pitch tomorrow?

By geauxbraves2000

July 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Players currently on DL or spent time their this season (to name a few):

SP Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, RP Moylan, Soriano, Gonzalez, OF Kotsay, Diaz, IF C Jones, Escobar (can’t remember if DL’ed or just missed time), Prado.

Hurting: C McCann

Couple all of that with a RF who is totally lost this season, a backup catcher not hitting worth a lick, and with a 1st baseman who didn’t do anything in April & May, and there’s no wonder why this season went the way it did.

IMO this is just too much for one team to overcome. Make a couple of good deadline deals (Tex, Kotsay perhaps, but sure hate to lose Ohman), have a great offseason and watch out 2009.

Geaux Braves!!

By Mr J

July 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

If the Braves trade away Tex and do not also trade for established players to immediately make up his production (the much discussed “buyers and sellers” scenario), then they might be wise to put McCann on the DL. Why? That way they can bring Sammons up for two weeks, play him nearly every day, and maybe get a good feel for his ability and readiness.

If Sammons looks good, then maybe he’s our catcher next year, and McCann plays first. That keeps McCann’s bat in the lineup and prolongs his career. If he’s got the Jones to catch, let him be the back-up catcher every 5th day.

McCann is a good defensive catcher, but not a great one. But without his offense the Braves are sunk, as we are about to find out.

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

When Bobby Cox says “no reason to risk it now”, it sounds like the Braves brass have officially reached selling mode!

By Chad

July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

I’m I correct in thinking that if the Braves trade Tex they are actually trading Tex and 2 first round draft picks for whomever?

By BamaBravesFan

July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

*By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

who the HECK is going to pitch tomorrow? *

I would guess Campillio

By Ron Roberts

July 28, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

TheCutMan is right; this organization, on the whole, needs to take a hard look at itself and what its goals are.

Either we’re trying to put together one more loaded squad to “win one for Bobby, Chipper and Smoltize” or we’re looking long-term.

It’s as if we’ve tried to do a “little” of both the past few years, and to me, it’s akin to upgrading an old battleship with new pieces, but there’s evidence of patchwork throughout the hull.

True, we’re a “younger” roster, but we’re obviously not battle-ready. I mean, given Smoltz’s aches and pains the past few years, Huddy’s old back issues, Kotsay’s past-and-current aches and pains, Chipper’s recurring injuries, Hampton’s recurring bad luck, Gonzo’s or Soriano’s issues (we weren’t exactly ignorant to that fact before we traded for either of ‘em), and Glavine’s… well, Glavine’s age… did this organization really think we were going to be healthy enough to withstand the competition and some, if not all of these setbacks?

I haven’t even mentioned Francoeur’s eyesight regression or Matt Diaz being out.

My point is, somewhere, somehow, this organization lost its focus. Is it our player development? Is it scouting? Is it Cox? (I don’t think it is, but it’s worth asking if a new way of thinking needs to come into thinking).

I hear folks (myself included) say “if Bobby had the full assemblage, we’d be running away with this division.” It’s probably true, but what manager gets that luxury, any season?

We needed to adapt, and I’m not sure we did. We didn’t use the bullpen correctly Saturday or Sunday, frankly, because that wouldn’t have been “by the book” methodology.

I think there’s a place for Bobby with this organization as long as he wants it - I’m just not sure it’s in the dugout anymore. A player who’d played for him, and knows his way works, but is willing to do things a little outside-the-box would be perfect.

Is it too much to consider Chipper Jones as a player-manager? Hell, is that even allowed anymore?

By Truth Will Set You Free

July 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Dear David, Let’s try this tact. Let’s assume you were not the Braves beat writer, but were involved in MLB. Under that scenario how would you react to another writer having continued this “Seller or Buyer” fiasco for this long?? I’m betting—and you appear to be an honest man—that you would have had a lot of respect for someone writing “Braves fans, The Wild Card is coming out of the Central so we MUST win the Division. The only chance to win the Division is if the Mets, Phillies and Marlins play barely above.500, AND even if that happens the Braves must play at about a .620 clip. Now since we have seen NO evidence that Braves are capable of playing .620 for 58 games that it is time to make the best possible deal for Texeira because we’re not getting back in this. Only way we don’t trade him is if enough isn’t being offered and Braves prefer the 2 picks next year”

Now REALLY David, Isn’t this how you REALLY feel?? We all trust you here to be honest, let’s hear it. Thank You in advance.

By Chad

July 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

That’s assuming that the team we trade with can’t sign him.

By Einstein

July 28, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Dear Braves Fans and Braves apologists… It won’t matter who we trade for or give up or receive, until we have new, progressive thinking with our manager/coaches. Bobby was a great manager with Maddox. Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz in their prime. He became a “better than average” manager as they grew older and Chipper began to break down. Now, with rookies, has-beens, and a few over the hills, he is just an average manager. Draw your own conclusions. I say we trade Tex, Frenchy, Boyer, Ring, Corky, Kotay, Pendleton, McDowell, and Manny I’llcostyou for Ned Yost. That’s how you build a team..start from the top down.

By alan from Atlanta GA.

July 28, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

So Reyes is finally back in AAA, where he obviously belongs to all except BC. When is Ring and Boyer going to go too? When is BC going to go? When is TP and RMc going to go? Jones and Hudson out on DL. Who’s next? D’ya notice Hampton looked like a frightened minor league pitcher the other day? Is Frank Wrenn going to last long? This is probably the worst team I’ve seen since the 1962 Mets. At least Marvelous Marv Thronberry was alway around for a laugh. These are the things bouncing around my mind right now. Things could be worse, I could have serious thoughts about the braves such as BOYCOTT THE BRAVES.

By Hammy the Brave

July 28, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I am sorry it has come time for the realization that the Braves’ and FW need to rebuild, they can’t just retool anymore, they have too many holes! Our rebuilding process should have started in 2006, when we knew we’d have a losing season, and we knew we wouldn’t resign Andruw. This trade should have been the course taken because it would have been the best baseball decision, and IMO, too much pride may have stood in the way, as well as concern for fan turnout/fan reaction.

My biggest frustration with this was, in light of Andruw signing with LA and his agent’s office being near there, I believe he could have been dealt there. I wonder if JS couldn’t have gotten Billingsly, the pitcher, and Kemp, the OF, at that time, before Andruw devolved into his present morass, and before those 2 players contributed much at the ML level. This would have started our rebuilding process much earlier, and given us more starting pitching and OF depth, if my trade scenario was plausible.

Jumping to the present and the trade Tex and/or Ohman scenario’s, don’t you think combining them in a trade would certainly enhance the value we’d get in return? While I’m not a baseball insider, or a member of the press, I find it hard to believe we can’t get a fairly solid return for that combo, much better than high draft picks(don’t fans realize the Braves usually draft high schoolers, early in the draft, and how long that would take to rebuild the team)?

I do agree with you that Boston probably isn’t interested in Tex, but how come nobody mentions the White Sox, along with the Angels, Dodgers and Diamondbacks?. My main point being there is some potential competition to trade for Tex/Ohman, especially between the Dodgers and Diamondbacks, in such a weak division, don’t you think?

In that type of environment, why couldn’t we get Connor Jackson, a pitching prospect(Scherzer or the guy in A ball?), plus a 3rd player? Or with LA, why not get Loney, Kemp, and a lefty pitching prospect, not named Kershaw?

Finally, I do hope we can get Bay from Pittsburgh, but why don’t we fill another hole and get Tom Gorzelanny thrown in too, as a reclamation project, in AAA? We shouldn’t automatically assume we’d get “taken to the cleaners” in a deal with Pittsburgh. From what Buster Onley has said several times on Baseball Tonight, numerous gm’s in baseball have grumbled that Pittsburgh didn’t get good return from the Yankees on their supposedly great Nady/Marte package.

I’m throwing this out for discussion,

        Hammy the Brave

By hem o'roid

July 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

DEB MAVRICK—You’re nothing But a sucka$$ new york bucket of crap. Go crawl back in your big apple sewer and eat its contents, you bi@$^

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any chance the Braves us someone other than Reyes or James for Huddy’s starts. Which I think he’ll miss only 2.

Might as well see what others have like Hanson or Todd Redmond….also Perry is on the 40 man roster so that would be an easy move.

By alan from Atlanta GA.

July 28, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Another thought. At least we have Corky Miller to fill in for McCann,whew almost had Bryan Pena instead. Who is Sammons?

By JEB

July 28, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Interested Observer seems to have a lot of inside info!! Even quotes that we don’t even get from DOB. Who is this masked man??

By BravesinTN

July 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Any chance on the Braves making two separate trades? I think trading Ohman to the Brewers for their AAA 1B - Brad Nelson - would work great! Nelson is hitting .300 with 13 HRs and 50+ RBI’s for the Nashville team. And the Brewers need more ‘pen help. Then, trade Texeira for OF power/pitching prospects…

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Is it too much to consider Chipper Jones as a player-manager? Hell, is that even allowed anymore?

How about Glavine….we went on a road trip and the only game we one was the one in MIL when he managed for awhile.

Or Smoltz….

if the season is over or not they need to do the whole hat pick for lineups to see if one player is better in a spot you wouldn’t expect….heck the only year Andruw touched .300 was when he hit in front of Chipper.

By Jeff R

July 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

If management moves Super Tex, it won’t be for an established major leaguer but a couple of near-ready quaility prospects, at least. Ohman will likely command a solid prospect as well. Let’s not forget that Wren did cut a excellent deal with Detroit over the winter.

And as much as everyone would like a first baseman in return for Super Tex, I’d argue that Wren needs to find the best available talent. Getting a top third base prospect or pitching prospects (or some combination) would be welcome. There’s always the winter, when management could address the hole at first.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Wow…I can’t believe Ryan Lavner made such a stupid mistake. Now everything on mlb.com/braves.com says Jeff Bennett is a catcher….even in the transaction notes, it says they called “catcher” jeff bennett up from Myrtle Beach. Gary Bennett is the catcher, who is not even in the Braves organization….how do you get gary mixed up with the name jeff?

By Supes

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Glad to see that common sense is prevailing with Frank Wren and Bobby (for once).

Putting Huddy and Chipper on the DL was the right move. No need to get them injuried any further at this point, the Braves are NOT contending.

The white flag has been raised at the TED.

Surprised to see Jo-Jo was optioned to AAA to make room for Bennett and not Julian Tavarez? I think Jo-Jo has shown he can be serviceable and on the other hand…Tavarez has shown nothing of value.

Any news on wheather the Braves plan on putting BMac on the DL as well? It would be for the best if they did, as concussions can take a while to fully recover from. Just ask Ryan Church (I’m not sure if Mac’s is as severe, but just saying).

In that case, they could bring up another player from AA as well to take up Mac’s spot.

By JB

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts

What back issue of Hudson’s are you referring to? He’s had sore arm issues, but not for about 2 years until just last week.

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

*I suppose your argument is that Saltalamacchia could be an above average major league firstbaseman and his position had virtually no bearing on the Braves giving him up. * Shaun

Shaun, That wasn’t my argument at all.

Again, thanks for making my sure you got your points in, and not reading what I said.

Go Braves!

By joe

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Cut Corky Miller and send Francouer to Mississippi for the rest of the year. He has an 0-2 count 90% of the time and still looks like a rookie at the plate.

Time to clean house, trade Tex and get what you can for him, give Norton a shot at 1B for the rest of this year to see what he can do and give Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton and now Hudson time to save up for next season…this year is over!!!

By Todd A

July 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

I know it sounds simplistic, but this team hasn’t been the same since Kelly Johnson pulled an Adam LaRoche and dropped that pop up (that would have given the Braves a win in the opening game of the series) against the Phillies in late May. The Braves were 5 games over .500 at that point, and playing very good baseball. Getting rid of guys like him and Frenchy should be the first order of business for Wren this off season.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Well, I think it’s official now. With Chipper and Hudson on the DL this team is tossing up the white flag. I know Wren and Cox would still publicly state that they aim to win this season, and I’m glad they keep that face on, but it isn’t going to happen. I’m glad to see JoJo go down and work. He’s been pretty bad for some time. Perhaps this team can acquire another good starter for next year. I know a month ago everyone was settled on only adding a bat and a reliever but this team needs a sturdy rotation going forward. A reliable rotation. A rotation that can produce without missing significant time. It was the point made in the off season. It was the reason given to signing Glavine… The phrase “innings eater” was tossed around a lot. The actuality is none of that occurred. It’s still important.

There are a lot of holes on this team and not all of them can be filled at the deadline. I’m sure they have a plan, and I hope it’s a better plan than the one they had for this season.

By Truth Will Set You Free

July 28, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

NOW with Hudson AND Jones on DL, McCann looking at a possible Post Concussion Syndrome problem—see Ryan Church—I’m going to go out on the limb and say that other teams JUST MIGHT think they have us over the barrel. I know it takes a lot of guts to say that, but what the heck someone has to step up and be bold.

HOPEFULLY we have heard and read the last of that seemingly perpetual Buy or Sell debate. Let’s just be glad the Nationals are in the East because it will be disheartening enough to finish behind a team with a payroll equal to Manny’s salary.

Boy, Have we slipped!!! AND please, get Hampton’s sorry carcass out of the rotation and let’s give some guys a chance who will be here next year. Tommy, that means you too. Shut It Down For Good!!

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

JEB

Again, I’m flattered, but you give me way too much credit. Actually, I was quoting DOB’s post more so than BC directly.

By David O’Brien

July 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Just ran upstairs to make sure you all have seen the item on our site that I called in from clubhouse.

Anyway, Hudson AND Chipper to DL. Hudson wanted to pitch tonight, but Bobby said no way, no reason to risk it now, gonna miss couple turns. Elbow just hadn�t improved when he threw Sunday.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Bravos2249, don’t know if you saw end of my 4:28 comment, but I said there that Campillo starts tomorrow.

Rest of series has Jurrjens on Wednesday and Hudson on Thursday.

By Ron Roberts

July 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

JB… Tim had back problems the season before we got him. That’s not his recent concerns, no; just history worth stewing over, on the whole.

By Jeff R

July 28, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Speaking of holes… Is Kelly Johnson back next season? Sorry, I realize a lot of fans liked this guy’s bat last year and we’re willing to let his average - at best - fielding slide. But the guy isn’t a strong defender. One of the hallmarks of the 90s Braves was strong up-the-middle defense. Johnson is a weak link.

By Paul Hamilton

July 28, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

At this point unless someone is willing to trade you a really good player for Tex, you keep him and take the first and probably second round pick for him. This season is for the most part over. With Tex, Glavine, and Hampton coming off the books at seasons end, you can easily jump into the free agency market and trade market to address your needs after the season.

Why is everyone so intent on giving away Tex for some average quality players?? They gave up way too much for him to get rid of him for only an average deal. Don’t be a fool Wren! The ball is still in your court.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Supes: No, not putting Mac on DL. Bobby just said again while ago that it should only be a few days for McCann….

By the way, I’ve seen two different lineups for tonight, one with Norton hitting cleanup and one with Kotsay in that spot.

Francoeur’s seventh, Sammons eighth.

OK, going back down to the field.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

He�s had sore arm issues, but not for about 2 years until just last week

Also oblique strains I think… I don’t recall back either but I do remember something about oblique strains.

By JEB

July 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

braves2249 Have you been nippin’ on the sauce?? When did Glavine ever coach a game??

Also, Andruw NEVER batted in front of Chipper in the lineup - NEVER!! He was in the four hole - and the was as high as he ever hit in the batting order - ever!

By Supes

July 28, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

**Jeff R,

Speaking of holes� Is Kelly Johnson back next season? Sorry, I realize a lot of fans liked this guy�s bat last year and we�re willing to let his average - at best - fielding slide. But the guy isn�t a strong defender. One of the hallmarks of the 90s Braves was strong up-the-middle defense. Johnson is a weak link**

I hear you, but who would you suggest?

Don’t just say the guy is a weak link etc, give us a solution.

They have Lillbridge and Prado (who I guess can both be coverted to play 2B, although they normally play on the other side of the diamond)

Both are UNPROVEN at best as far as long term solution at 2B if you trade Kelly.

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

As many are saying on the blog (I really don’t know why I am repeating, except out of boredom today), I would love to see us DL McCann so that there is not temptation to bring him back to early. We need his bat, but I think we are done for the season at this point. Huddy, Chipper out…

I would love to see a few deals for players who will not be back. Can we get anything for Kotsay? Ohman is a real chip. As for Tex, just get the best package possible, even if we have to add to get it. Our expectations should not be too great, as we are not in a strong position with him.

Bay would be a nice addition for next year, but NO way would I include Lillibridge in a trade for him. Lilly is going to be a decent to above average major leaguer for 10 years (The Swammy has spoken!).

We should go with our AAA guys for the rest of the year, to see what they have (Perry, BJones, Thorman, Lillibridge, Chuckie, etc.) Maybe one or two guys from Mississippi: Schafer and Redmond.

Watch JJJ closely the rest of the year. Is Campillo a flash in the pan, or the real thing? If there are doubts about his future, then sell high. Would someone take a flier on Soriano for a prospect or two? I have NO confidence in him.

Enough from the intermountain west peanut gallery for now.

(Tex for Carl Crawford???) Can we recreate some rumors from last winter?

By 57Braves

July 28, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the rest of the NL East would allow us a “do over” for this disaster of an ‘08 season? One disaster after another.

By Aaron

July 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

I say the Braves should go after Casey Kotchman. He’s just 25 years old. His salary is only $1.45 million. And he won’t be a free agent until after the 2011 season. He is the Angels team leader in batting average, hitting .288 with 10 HR and 50 RBIs. This would make alot of sense to me. And I guarantee you that the Braves would do remarkebly better right away!

By Aaron

July 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Hudson on Thursday? Your last line said Hampton. The mayhem! Worlds are colliding!

By Ben

July 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Is there anything that hasn’t gone wrong that should have gone wrong?

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Let’s get real. Other teams GM’s are not operating in a vacuum. They have known for weeks that they have the Braves over a barrell. The only leverage the Braves would have is that they really don’t have to trade these players. Maybe we have some leverage on Ohman, but minimal on Tex. Especially since there are no big fits for his services, only some desire to add his bat.

Let’s get what we can, so long as it’s better than the 2 draft choices.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Norton or Kotsay hitting cleanup … that sound you hear is a white flag waving and a “SELL” sign being posted.

By Birmingham

July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

We have so many holes at this point, next year is going to be very interesting.

1) Replacement for Tex? 2) Trade Kelly? 3) Who plays LF and CF? 4) Who makes up the starting rotation if Smoltz, Glavine & Hampton are gone?

By Aaron

July 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe Bobby Cox yesterday in the post game interview! This is basically what he said; ‘All we got to do is take 2 out of 3. We don’t need to sweep anybody.’ Now tell me, WHAT KIND OF FOOLISHNESS IS THAT! Makes me want to puke.

By Aaron

July 28, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

By Mike

July 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Norton and Kotsay hitting cleanup? Does that mean Tex is on his way out of ATL? Or is he hitting third?

By Threadkiller

July 28, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB; Any chance you can get a quote out of Tex about his career plans? I think it would be good to know from the horses mouth that his first priority are the Braves. Thanks

By Mr J

July 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

JEB,

I’m preety sure Andruw batted 2nd one year. I can’t remember which year off the top of my head, but it was early on in his career, maybe ‘98 or ‘99. I also recall it was that year that he hit .300 and stole some bases. He was a thinner, faster guy back then.

By brian

July 28, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Andy K - don’t know if you read DOB’s comments on how the Braves are not going to trade away any of their top pitching prospects. No way will they trade Teheran who is considered by many to have one of the best arms in the minors.

Hanson should also be off limits. Hanson and Morton could be the start of a special rotation. If JoJo and/or Chuck James could put it together we would have a lot of solid young pitchers with prospects with higher ceilings coming along as well

By Mike

July 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

Let�s get what we can, so long as it�s better than the 2 draft choices.

But what is better than two draft choices? Are we talking about two stud prospects? 1 stud and a “b” level prospect? I think the idea the Braves should get a first baseman for next year is a bit absurd. Gte the best prospects you can get and move on.

Enough with Kotchman, Jackson and Loney. They aren’t going anywhere.

Focus on prospects like Parker, Parra, Laroche, Hu, Adenhart, and Walden…..

By Mark T.

July 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Assuming we are going to lose Tex trade or to FA, why dont we attempt to trade KJ with couple of prospects for Brandon Phillips? If we lose him to trade then we can use one of those prospects as trade bait. The Reds named their 5 untouchables and he is one of them. He is rather on the cheap side financially and we’d get a potential gold glove, 5 tool 2nd baseman, who hits in the cleanup spot.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Hudson to the DL too, no this just got way out of line. Man the chance for the braves to win this year is minimal. Without Hudson, chipper, and Mac. Who is the trainer for the Braves? Jeff Porter? What does he have to say for all these injuries.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

I prefer Rocco Baldelli.

By Dan in NJ

July 28, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Anyone hear Chris Russo today on 660 the fan. He ripped into the pirates for trading the “best” lefty specialist and Nady, for 4 nobodys. That they(yanks) didn’t even give up Kennedy in the deal. And said thats why the pirates are the pirates. LOL. So true. And Thats why like DOB said, the deal for Bay was most likely never true. Can’t see pirates ownership turning ANYTHING down. But, if it was true, B.Jones, Lil’man, and two others wouldve been a good trade. esp.knowing there is no room for Lil’man in Atlanta. And BJones doesnt seem to have the power needed in the OF. Knowing we have Frenchy in right and who knows in CF next year, BUT most likely CF will not have much power either if they go within the farm. So, Bay would be nice to have for next season.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Jeb

You need to look up your stuff…. 2000 batting orders

and Druw hit .300 that year

And Glavine did manage part of the ONLY game we won when we went to MIL/CIN….he was the one who called for the hit and run….which Bobby hardly does.

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Mike Agreed 100%. Only way we get Loney/Jackson/Kotchman is by adding some other valuable piece(s). And then, it is still a long-shot.

By Catfish

July 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Aaron, I like your suggestion of Kotchman for Tex but with a little tweak. Why not go after Juan Rivera and Kotchman. Ohman might have to be included as well to make it work.

Juan Rivera could fill the LF slot, but he is a free agent at the end of the year. However, he should be resignable at a reasonable salary.

And of course Kotchman can cover first until 2011, or until Freddy Freeman is ready.

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Long story short, this was the year when Tex needed to buck his trend of slow starts. But it didn�t happen. Who knows if a huge first month from him could have made the difference for the Braves? But I can assure you, it sure would have made things a bit more interesting. DOB

I can understand that sentiment, we hit and pitched so well over the course of those two months, that we can only think about what might have been if Tex had also been in on that party.

But it just seems like there is a connotation (and I’m sure you don’t believe this DOB, but I think that some people do) that we are in 4th now because Tex didn’t OPS 900 in April and May.

Consider this, Tex led the team in RBI over those two months.

You guys talk about Tex not being clutch or hitting with RISP. Well, in March and April he hit .308 with RISP with an OPS of .861. And in May he hit .323 with RISP and an OPS of 1.057. (Again, I still believe these numbers even out in the long run, but since you guys love AVG with RISP so much, I thought you’d get a kick out of that).

He certainly could have been better and we probably would have won some more games. And maybe if Mac had hit better than .071 with RISP in March and April, he would have knocked in more than 9 runs. That might have helped us do better than 12-15.

Every single person on this team has had big cold streaks except for Chipper (who’s problems have more to do with just missing time).

Even Mac has had a stretch like that, he went .244/.320/.456, a .776 OPS with just 13 RBI in June, and in that month we went 11-16.

So I think that implying that Tex was a let down just because he did exactly what he has always done (start cold) is kind of hypocritical when we ignore similar difficulties from other players.

Besides, I don’t think that going 29-27 through May is what killed this team.

By Rob

July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

**Tex for One of the Following Options:

1) Connor Jackson; OR

2) Top pitching prospect Jarrod Parker and one of Max Scherzer or Gerado Parra, plus one other lower level prospect with some upside.**

For Jackson, I’d gladly pick up the remainder of Tex’s salary in 2008 if I’m the Braves. For the other package, I would pick up salary but only if its 2 good prospects in addition to Parker.

Parker is a STUD. I’d MUCH, MUCH rather have him than Chad freaking Tracy.

* Chad Tracy is NOT a difference maker. He is a mediocre league average (or ever so slightly better than league average) for his position and its not like he’s making the league minimum either.*

SAY NO TO CHAD TRACY. If its Tracy and Owings (he of the 5.40 ERA and almost a hit per inning allowed), then forget it. Keep Tex and collect the draft picks.

By Lew

July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Not so sure they’re running the white flag up the pole, but I’d say the graffiti is on the wall, for sure. With no Hudson, Chipper and McCann for a week or more, as the individual case may be, I’m not seeing a huge surge towards respectability, much less making any kind of serious run.

It’s definitely time to get what we can for Tex. I’d love to sign Ohman to a longer term contract, but that doesn’t seem the way the Braves tend to operate, so I’d trade him and get some more of what we can get.

Too many holes in the roster (it’s no longer a starting lineup issue) to deal with it all this time out. There should be (conservatively) $45 mil with Tex’s departure to spend over the winter-more if Liberty Media decides to keep their promises and “spend many millions more”.-though I’m not quite as positive about that happening as I was when the platitude was uttered last winter.

By BravesinTN

July 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

This is almost like the excitement of the NFL draft when your team has a high pick. you’re embarassed and dissapointed to have a lousy team and pick high (trade players away)…but excited to see who we get that will help us in the future. I need to see Chipper get one more realistic shot at the postseason….

By Josh

July 28, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Jeff Porter totally screwed the pooch on the McCann/Victarino collision. He should have had Brian doing 5 sets of 15 skull stretches every other day to prevent this. It’s bush league I tell ya.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

I know they didn’t want Huddy pitching but why put him on the DL?

They didn’t bring up someone due to his move, did they?

By BlackberryCobbler

July 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

DOB— If there are no good 1B out there, can’t we move Chipper to 1B and deal for a 3B?

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

BravesfaninRockies

Rocco is probably untouchable!

By BlackberryCobbler

July 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

The Braves 2-3 years ago started making the decisions to build the future with old, recycled, injured/repaired, other teams cast-offs type players— Kotsay, Glavine, Hampton, Smoltz, and others.

Yes, this year has been a dissappointment but the Braves brought this largely on themselves. When you come into the season and you’re depending on Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton to anchor the pitching staff, hope that Chipper stays healthy, and hope Kotsay’s back will be ok……… well, your in a very risky what-if situation from the get go.

The Braves got bit in the butt and have no one to blame but themseleves.

By rammerjammer

July 28, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

The Goche,

I’m with you, man. Tex is the scapegoat because he was the missing piece of the championship puzzle…and then the other pieces fell apart! Not his fault…he did his part. I wish him good luck. He’s a very good player and he’s earned the right to play for a very good team.

By Drummerdad

July 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, While you’re busy running to and fro about Turner Field let me ask you something. Is Adam Laroche’s contract with the Pirates finished after this year, and, what are the chances of the Braves trying to resign him? Inquiring drummers want to know.

By tiger7_88

July 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

DOB said: McCann�s concussion � on a clean, hard play, I might add; Shane Victorino did nothing wrong in that collision Sunday

I beg to disagree, Mr. O’Brien. McCann was NOT blocking the plate… you can see in the replays and pictures of the play that he is standing on the first base side of the plate when he took the ball on the short hop… and when he turned to make the tag, instead of a player sliding to a plate that he had plenty of room to slide to, he found a freight train barreling down the baseline towards his head. If the plate is not being blocked, the catcher SHOULD NOT have to worry about his head being taken off. Erstad taking out Estrada (who wasn’t blocking the plate then) a few years ago was a play as dirty as the day is long… and so was Victorinos. A baserunner has every right to pound his way through a defender who is blocking his way in the baseline… he has NO right to take out a defender who he could otherwise (and more safely) avoid and who is NOT blocking his access to the base/plate.

Let’s see… Uttley tried to elbow McCann in the head earlier in the game and almost succeeded… then Victorino goes out of the baseline to take out McCann when he could just as easily have slid (slad? slud?).

Suuuuuuuuuuure it wasn’t a dirty play, DOB. You keep tellin’ yourself that.

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Tex to the Angels The more I think about a trade to the Angels, it would have to include either Kotchman or one of their outfielders (Matthews, Rivera or Anderson, as they will not deal Hunter or Vlad).

The Angels would not have enough room to fit Tex into their lineup, without sitting down some high salaried player.

So, with that thought, it would almost have to be Kotchman or Rivera. Even Rivera would not automatically open up a slot for Tex. So, to do a deal with the Angels, we would have to include another piece that was highly valued by the Angels. Relief Pitching? Ohman?? Not sure if that flies.

By Nelson

July 28, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

For me this is the best of the blog: Send Jeff F. down until he becomes a prospect again. And in my modest opinion: Francuer, Kelly and Kotsay, they are all mediocre players, we are not going back to the play-offs with such kind of players. Totally rebuilt this team or bring real baseball players to inject hot blood to this dying team. The Marlins did it both ways two times to win the world series and now with 100% young players!!!

By THIS JUST IN

July 28, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Yahoo! Sports’ Steve Henson reports that negotiations between the Diamondbacks and Braves are “pretty far along.”

Henson believes the Braves are asking for either Conor Jackson or Chad Tracy, plus a prospect. Jackson is likely off the table, but if the Braves are willing to accept Tracy as the centerpiece of a deal, then the Diamondbacks have to seriously consider making the trade. Still, it could come down to the prospect. The Diamondbacks don’t have much to offer besides Max Scherzer and Jarrod Parker after giving up a big portion of their system for Dan Haren, and it’s doubtful that they’d part with either right-hander.

Parker or Scherzer HAVE to be in the deal. It is just that damn simple. If they aren’t, then the Braves brass blew it. I can’t stress that enough. And when it comes down to it, with Scherzer’s violent delivery, I’ll take Parker(just as much upside as Teheran).

By Patrick

July 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

LATEST ON TEIXEIRA

Yahoo! Sports’ Steve Henson reports that negotiations between the Diamondbacks and Braves are “pretty far along.”

By Jordan

July 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

It’s time to start looking at next year. If I were the Braves GM, here’s what I would do:

Go out and get Sabathia. We have the money to sign one big timer. Smoltz will not be making his $12 mill next year. Probably more like $7 million. Let’s get back to our roots. PITCHING & DEFENSE.
Go out and sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a one year deal. Great defender at 1st base.
The difficult part is left field. There are two routes to to. Sign Raul Ibanez to a 1 year deal, or put Gregor Blanco in left and let Jordan Schaeffer go at it. Preferably the cheaper option if Schaeffer is ready.

Imagine this rotation. 1. Smoltz 2. Sabathia 3. Hudson 4. Jurrjens 5. Campillo.

This would easily be the best rotation in the division if not the NL. This would also be an ecellent defensive team. Let’s go do it!

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Well the next few days should be fun for a change. I think we’re going to be surprised to see what Ohman brings in return. Tex? It’s hard to tell. The market isn’t that strong for him, but you never know.

There are a lot of options on the table & there should be plenty of action the next few days.

I know it probably won’t happen, but if the Braves could land Bay & Conner Jackson things would set up nicely for next season. That would two huge needs covered & both combined are not making what Tex is this season. That would leave a ton of money to really build the team up.

By cooper

July 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

We need to accept the fact that Tex is not going to net us much and if they trade him we will be horrifically disappointed with the return. As in “why didn’t we just keep him”

It will be a disappoint with staying power b/c they are not going to a 1B, a power OF bat or an arm worth mentioning in the trade.

Bay is off the table. McCann is injured. Chipper & Huddy on the DL. Yikes.

Hello AAAA lineup w/o Tex.

If they don’t want to phone in the rest of the season - never mind playoffs - they should keep Tex, offer him a deal or just arb to get the picks.

Now had Wren picked up Harden three weeks ago and then did the Nady/Marte trade this board would be having a totally different discussion.

We needed another starter, pen arm and a bat. We watched as other teams made those moves while signed Tavarez waiting for Bay to free up 3 days before the deadline? Are you kidding me?

Harden is locked up for a year as is Nady, Marte more so even if Tex walked you would have a stronger team going into the winter meetings than we will have this year.

Wren’s error in judgment in terms of replacing Smoltz and Glavine with rookies and relying on a pen that is stocked with DFA candidates is why hope is lost.

Poor chess playing on Wren’s part - he took a gamble on pitching, passed on Nady/Marte and this is called helping his team win.

Instead of the above he focused on protecting Jeff’s ego and praying to Jobu that his rag tag pitching staff (apart from Hudson, JJ, Camp, Gonzo & Ohman) would not crap the bed and picking up Gotay, Norton and Tavarez. How is this guy not fired?

As Ned Flanders would say diddly diddly dumb.

By tnbrave

July 28, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

I am a diehard braves fan, it kills me to go through the struggles of this season, but the fact of the matter is if the Braves trade Tex, they will have just set their playoff goals back another 2 years. Slow starter or not he is a franchise player on a team with a fragile backbone in Chipper Jones. No team in a division lead has a bargain impact player, or at least one who isn’t going to command a huge pay day. As long as the Braves brass keeps trying to build a contender on peanuts, you are going to continue to see what you’re seeing on a nightly basis now.

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

We need a backup catcher. Corky is a poor man’s Bruuuuuuuuuuuce Benedict, and Bruce wasn’t exactly Johnny Bench himself.

Corky, though, is like Ricky Henderson on the base-paths compared to Bruce. Lasorda once said a pregnant woman could outrun him to first. Murph used to call him “Eggs Benedict.” Shoulda called him Molasses or Sloth.

By Chop Chop

July 28, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Goche,

Unfortunately for your point of view, Tex has been getting paid more ($12.5 million) than any other player in the lineup. Just as managers will often be unfairly blamed for their teams’ struggles, so to are high-salaried players. You know, as if high-salaried players aren’t allowed to struggle for a given period of time.

Mark Teixeira was brought in to be a savior (the view of the fans; hopefully not that of the Braves’ front office). The Braves did not trade so many top prospects for Tex without the belief that he would be the catalyst for a playoff run last season and this season. John Schuerholz’s last gasp trade did not have the desired effect.

The fact that Tex struggled (he was hitting cleanup all year; barring a slump of 2007 Andruw proportions, a player damn well ought to lead his team in RBI when he’s in the cleanup spot) early in the season the way he always has (especially in terms of power) in the past really soured a lot of fans (not necessarily familiar with Tex’s historically slow starts) who are eager to return to the Braves’ winning ways of the past.

I guess my main point here is that the stats really don’t mean a whole lot in this argument. You are not going to convince people who thought Tex would be better than this (mostly because of the hype) to accept that the guy has been everything they’d hoped he’d be. It just hasn’t worked out that way, so some fans are going to direct that frustration toward Tex. The Braves raised the expectations of fans by trading for Tex last year and, if these blogs are any kind of barometer for fan opinion, got burned by it.

By Billy

July 28, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Mac dove back towards the plate at the exact same time Victorino dove towards Mac. Victorino’s job as a baseball player is not the ball loose and score. Mac’s job is to try and get to the plater to block it and tag the runner before he scores.

They collided on a clean baseball play. Bobby said he had no problem with the play. Mac said he had no problem with the play. You amatuer baseball fans are the only one’s who don’t understand the play. Hell, you guys are probably the ones in the stands calling balk when clearly there is no balk 6 times a game.

Get a grip that was baseball played the way men play it.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

I think any trade with the Angels (a two team trade) would have to include Kotchman. Kotchman has tremendous upside (great plate discipline, youth, line drive power, good defense). Despite the buzz about Conor Jackson, who has outstanding offensive numbers, I think that Kotchman (or Loney) fits the Braves pitching and defense style better than Jackson. In fact I might suggest that if the Braves wiggle Jackson away from Arizona that the Braves will still need to find a good 1B in the winter. Jackson won’t cut it defensively.

Someone mentioned an Ohman to Milwaukee trade earlier this afternoon. Trade would include a AAA 1B prospect. If we are looking to ‘09 (and we are), then that was an intriguing idea, I thought.

By Threadkiller

July 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

The Angels are not going to deal!! They have the best record in Baseball and a 10.5 game lead. Why would they deal??

By Lawrence

July 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Its about time now for all you little kiddies to put your bubblegum cards away and give the pc up for a few hours.I can now see the reason the Braves are so awful this year.Its the fan base! With morons like are here on this blog firing managers and hitting coaches,trading players and ripping trainers there is no reason to try and have a winning team.No one here would be happy with that!You people need to get a life.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Lew: (nodding my head, raising my fist) Amen!

I’d agree, I don’t think this team will ever officially raise a white flag, but I gotta think everyone there knows the situation whether the front office states it explicitly or not.
DL-ing the only veteran starter remaining on the team is enough of a sign for me to say the white flag has been hoisted, but I’m sure the front office will still state that they hope to win and are making moves towards winning this and next year. Just seems to be the talking point they never stray from no matter the situation.

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Hex makes alotta hay in blowins and blowouts. In tight games early in the year, he SUCKED! Stats don’t always translate into a legit gauge of a player’s effectiveness in situational terms. Big numbers in blowouts don’t mean $hit.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Shamus

Why the bashing on Bruce??? Dude was great behind the plate. And if you need confirmation ask the great Phil Niekro. Ain’t so easy catching a 65 mph knuckleball. Say all ya want about Rick Cerone and Ozzie Virgil but don’t knock the Bruce.

And you’ve actually seen Corky on the basepaths??? You’re kidding right?

By Wayne in Utah

July 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

If Bruce Benedict had a footrace with a pregnant woman, he would finish third.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Everyone talking about last year…you do REALIZE down the stretch it was the pitching that put us in the rut of not making the post-season not Tex….everyone struggled including Huddy and Smoltz….JS traded for Dotel who pitched like 7 innings…nice physical right there!

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Billy

Well put. Amen.

By Run, Heap, Run!

July 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Welcome back, DOB … you always seem to know when its going to hit the fan and take off accordingly. : ) Smart move.

Anyway, I am very surprised about the Huddy news but damn glad to see OhNo demoted. I’m sure he’s a “great guy” who wants to do well but he just ain’t cuttin it right now.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah. Forgot Hampton was still on this team. I guess the Braves didn’t DL the only remaining vet starter on the team… it just feels that way.

By Jeff R

July 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Supes

Good point about Kelly Johnson. I don’t know what the winter market will be like (a trade, more likely). I’ve always thought that Prado was the better defender. Fans rap him for his range, but at least the balls he gets to he usually fields. Frankly, I never thought Prado had a chance to compete fairly for the position; management was bound and determined to go with Johnson.

The front office doesn’t like to sign free agents (generally), so I’d need to see the trade market post-season before I’d have a good idea.

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

From Jayson Stark: The market is officially open!

Well, it’s official. The Mark Teixeira auction is on. According to an executive of a club that spoke with the Braves’ brass Monday afternoon, they have begun informing other teams they plan to trade Teixeira this week if they get the right deal. The four teams that so far have expressed some level of interest: Diamondbacks, Rays, Red Sox, Angels.

By AZBravoFan

July 28, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Gotta have Sherzer in any deal that doesn’t involve Jackson. D’backs also have a couple interesting guys here in AAA Tucson on the corners, Josh Whitesell is hitting .312/19/76. He plays 1B. And Jamie D’Antona is second in the PCL in batting at .367 with an 1.019 OPS. He plays 3rd.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Angels view Teixeira has a major upgrade over Kotchman (as they should), and it’s definitely something that interests some officials in the organization, just don’t know if they’re willing to give up Kotchman in a package for Tex. But with the relationship that Boras has with the owner there, I’ll say again, to me that makes a lot of sense.

But it also sounds like Braves and D-Backs are talking quite a bit. Can’t see D-Backs caving on Conor Jackson, though. But we’ll see. I’d probably do it for Tracy if they threw in another real solid prospect or a good young player….

Someone above said Loney alone not enough, that Loney AND Kemp would be good. What? For a two-month rental. From Dodgers perspective, that makes zero sense unless you are sure you can re-sign Tex.

By TommyP

July 28, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Tell the D’backs “No thanks” on Tracy unless Scherzer is involved.

Honestly, if you can net a Max Scherzer for Texeira at this point, you try to make a deal work.

Bay needs to come cheaper than that “supposed” report out of Pittsburgh.

If you can’t net a whole lot for Tex, don’t deal him. We need to get a very nice piece in this deal.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

By the way, lineup: 1. Blanco, 2. Escobar, 3. Tex, 4. Kotsay, 5. Kelly J., 6. Omar, 7. Francoeur, 8. Sammons, 9. Charlie.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Threadkiller

They’d deal for October. They want to win it all.

By jed

July 28, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

god please not tracy for tex. that’s the just the type of pointless trade i dont wanta see.

read that cubs are looking for a LH CF. cubs, kotsay; kotsay, cubs.

still hope we re-sign ohman right now & keep him.

By tr

July 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

The Red Sox want to get rid of Manny, who says he’ll approve a trade to any MLB team if they refuse the options on his ‘09 ‘10 contracts.

OK, send Tex. Toss in Soriano and Frenchie. Ask for Youklis and Manny. We keep Ohmen and try to resign him. We can live with Manny for a couple of months and he’ll be a LOT more reasonable to resign if he behaves!

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Interesting Teixeira trade talk here in LA on Mason & Ireland 710 AM Radio I thought you bloggers would like to hear about.

First they had Bowman on the radio which pretty much concluded that if you had to hold a gun to his head, he’d say the most likely deal for Tex would be with the Dodgers.

Next they had a Ned Coletti discussion, saying that the Dodgers should first check with Brian Cashman to see if he’d resign Tex next year as the Dodgers GM. They seem to think Coletti is on his way out of the Dodgers front office & a guy like Cashman will probably take his place because of his relationship with Torre.

Then they had a guy named Bill on from the LA Times. He seemed to be more rational about the whole trade situation, much like DOB’s assessment above and mine last night…..

He said the Dodgers are having money issues, so the Braves would have to pay his salary for the year, something Atlanta doesn’t do. He said when the Dodgers got Blake, they had to give Cleveland the 2 prospects they did to clear up money to pay Blake. Thinking it would take a 10 year, $200 mil contract to resign Tex (though they admitted that’s what they thought it would take to sign Beltran who signed for less), he said the young talent the Braves would want wouldn’t be worth the risk of losing Tex next year. He said a trade to the Angels would be nice, but the same reason the Braves like Kotchman (he’s controlled cheaply till 2012), is the same reason the Angels like him.

I think the best deal would be to LA for Loney. We would also have to give them KJ to make the deal more enticing as Jeff Kent is near replaceable in LA, and KJ is rather cheap.

If the Braves got Loney, that’s another LH bat in the lineup along with KJ’s, McCann, Blanco, Chipper,Kotsay, etc… A line up with Loney, Prado, Escobar, Chipper, and maybe Kemp as well, would be pretty nice. The Dodgers have a lot of money freeing up after this season with Kent, Garciaparra, Saito, Furcal, all off the books, with AJ’s contract off the books next year. I think that guy Bill downplayed that in his assessment. But he did say that the Dodgers would want a mid-season contract signed by Tex, something Boras doesn’t do.

Boras iskilling any such deal for the Braves. Sad.

By StingerSplash

July 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Best player goes on DL. Best pitcher goes on DL. All-star catcher out for (at least) a few games. Cleanup hitter on the auction block. Bullpen spits the bit in Philly in back-to-back games that could have put team right back in the thick of the race. (7 1/2 out isn’t insurmountable, but time is getting short and the three teams in front aren’t backsliding any). This is as bad a day to be a Braves fan since Murph got swapped to the Phils.

By JEB

July 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

braves2249 Sorry about that - you were right! I stand corrected. I did not remeber that at all!

By Retch

July 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe Frenchy is hitting before Sammons and Morton!!

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

I agree with those who mentioned that maybe we should be looking at this as a two step process. If we can get a 1B for Ohman (Lars Anderson from the Red Sox?), then we could trade Tex for the best possible package regardless of position. Ohman appears to be in high demand which may increase our chances of finding a team with a quality 1B to spare.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Still confounds me why the Red Sox would be interested in Teixeira. They must really be worried about Ortiz’ health. I mean Youkilis and Teixiera are both great offensively and defensively. And Youkilis is a heck of a lot cheaper. I’d mcuh rather have Youkilis than Teixiera.

I always thought the Rays might bite on Tex, too. They’re getting good, but not great production at 1B. Batting average was in the low .230s last I checked.

By BRAVO AND UGA

July 28, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

trade Francour for a dozen used baseballs even if you also throw in 100 season tickets! Or send him to T-Ball league.

By Run, Heap, Run!

July 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Kotsay batting cleanup…oh my.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Speaking of trade possibilities. The Red Sox have this young slugging first baseman in Lars Anderson who is ranked in the top five among all 1st base prospects.

The Red Sox are actively shopping for some left handed pitching for their bullpen. The other prospect they have is Chris Carter, who is ready for the big leagues right now and plays LF.

It would seem the Braves have the Red Sox over the barrel, so to speak.

By Mike

July 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

DOB

By real solid prospect, I hope you mean Max Scherzer or Jarrod Parker, right? Because Frank Wren should hang up the phone if it doesn’t include one of those two. They have nothing else in that system of significance(Gerardo Parra isn’t impact). If Jackson isn’t in the deal, then one impact piece needs to be, and that would be Parker or Scherzer. I’ll take Parker, personally.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Note to Braves:

Please don’t rush McCann!!

By Original Jon

July 28, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Thumb You said *I think the best deal would be to LA for Loney. We would also have to give them KJ to make the deal more enticing as Jeff Kent is near replaceable in LA, and KJ is rather cheap.

If the Braves got Loney, that�s another LH bat in the lineup along with KJ�s, McCann, Blanco, Chipper,Kotsay, etc� *

How on earth would KJ be in the lineup if he is added to the trade to entice the Dodgers?

By JEB

July 28, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

DOB the Angels make the most sence to me.

If a deal is made it will certainly be the Angels or AZ.

Angles have a good team as is, but… in the playoffs they have to get through Boston/NY/Rays etc. they will need something extra. TEX (at this time of year) might be the special thing to get them over the top! AND they can sign TEX in the offseason!

By Coach (I'm a moron)

July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

FIRESALE!

(this is the part where I spell out what I just wrote for emphasis)

F-I-R-E-S-A-L-E!

If Bobby Cox had just traded for Howard Johnson, everything would be ok.

 boom.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Just talked to Frank for a while. Said they have deals on the table right now if they want to pull trigger. Deals that Braves are holding off on because they want to see if they can do better.

Said this is the last thing in the world he wanted to do, be trading players before the deadline. But that if you’ve got to do it, then you make sure you get the best possible deals to help your club win in years to come.

By Andy

July 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

One of the deal should be Frency and James to the Royals for Greinke.

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Judging by Wren’s first few trades I would say there is a better than average chance he scores a good trade with Tex & Ohman, maybe others.

Renteria for Hernandez/JJJ & Infante/Ohman for Ascaino have both worked out. Anything Ohman brings in is gravy.

Kotsay for Devine hasn’t worked out as planned, but Cox wasn’t exactly in love with Devine so I doubt he was going to play a big role with Braves had be stayed.

By cutty

July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

I haven”t posted since DOB called me a Laroche basher last year after I questioned Adam and Andrew’s lack of hustle and declining productivity.I do, however, still follow folk”s opinions and offer one of my own… could it be that Cox was/is a manager of the steroids era,dependant on the long ball and extra base hit, and might not be what this club needs at this time? His place in baseball history is secure. Job well done. I don”t think the current Braves need to feel all that comfortable and secure with how they go about their daily jobs. Torre benched Jones today, I”ll bet he”d still be a fixture if he were here.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

DOB

what about Salazar….he’s in triple A and is a decent OF…if Jackson isn’t included…but I’d say Loney and LaRoche would be good too.

by the way who’s going to be pitching in Hudson’s next 3 starts?

from tv they said the could only retro Huddy and Chipper to Friday because Morton wasn’t optiioned til Sat.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

If I’m Frank Wren, there’s no way I trade Tex to the D’Backs unless Connor Jackson is involved in the deal. Tracy is older, and coming off a few injuries, he could be damaged goods. Plus, we’d have CoJack for longer, not to mention he puts up better numbers than Tracy. I mean, the ball is in Frank Wren’s court. Tex is an Atlanta Brave, so I’d insist on Jackson with ether one of the two pitching prospects everyone is raving about. Remember, we don’t HAVE to trade him, but it’d sure be nice to get these guys.

By Original Jon

July 28, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

So it sounds like a definite trading of Tex is imminent.

Just to who is what he is waiting on.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Is McCann there tonight?

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

DOB Any hints on trading partners? Same teams as rumored or maybe a surprise?

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I asked Wren about the Tex trade, in retrospect.

“We don’t feel it was a bad deal. We didn’t get the result we wanted, that’s clear. Would we do it again? I think we would.”

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Man take it easy on Frenchy, the man is a good athlete he just needs to make some adjustments, because obviously the opposition find that he always chases that high fastball, and frenchy obviously has been betting that the pitcher wont throw it high enough, and that hasn’t been the case.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Tex just came to bat with one of his usual intro music songs, All Along the Watchtower.

First line: “There must be some kind of way out of here….”

By vic

July 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

It would be nice if we had a mgr. that had the balls to bench Frency, the way Joe Torre did A. Jones. Torre said , you play your best nine to win. Why don’t Cox do that. Oh, I forgot Bobby walks on water.

By Andy k.

July 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, judging by Wren’s comments, can we expect a post-game, or even game time trade? Thanks in advance, sir.

By nick

July 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

the fact that wren has “offers on the table” that he can pull the trigger on at any time tells me that they arn’t going to blow anyone away. if he believes he could get a really good return for tex in one of those offers, he would have pulled the trigger by now. imo

By Mike

July 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

If those deals have Parker or Scherzer involved, then fine. Hopefully it is Parker.

By Mac

July 28, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

If the Braves trade Teixeira for Chad “Park Effects” Tracy and second-line prospects, it’s yet another data point that they don’t know what they’re doing. We won’t get Jackson, but they have to get top-notch prospects, not a gaggle of relievers and back-of-the-rotation starters.

By Mike

July 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, Does he have a deal for Ohman on the table?

By TenneseePaul

July 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN….The Braves have acquired Kevin Youkalis and Jacoby Ellsbury for Mark Texiera and Jordan Schaefer… Reports indicate the Red Sox made the offer and as soon as Braves GM Frank Wren heard the proposal, he accepted immediately. Awesome move for the Braves. They filled two holes, one at first, the other in the outfield!

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer

I�m with you, man. Tex is the scapegoat because he was the missing piece of the championship puzzle�and then the other pieces fell apart! Not his fault�he did his part. I wish him good luck.

It’s nice to finally have ONE PERSON agree with me. It’s nice to know one person out there has the common sense to see, hey, this guy is pretty good.

I think on this note I will let this topic go.

As for that poll DOB mentioned. I can understand that. Tex is a very good player, but if you are going to start a team with a first baseman I’m sure you’d pick one with a career OPS higher than 908.

It’s not even that Tex is necessarily underrated, it’s just that a lot of other guys are overrated.

I mean compare him to Adrian Gonzalez, same position and with Tex clearly having the defensive edge. Gonzalez is 2 years younger than Tex. So consider Tex up through age 26.

At 26, Tex in 4 full seasons had 2 seasons with OPSes over 900 (930 and 954).

His career stats at that point: .282/.364/.534, an .898 OPS with 140 HR in 2346 AB. That is a HR every 16.8 AB.

Gonzalez’s up til now: .283/.345/.494., an .839 OPS with 86 HR in 1818 AB. A HR every 21.1 AB.

Now I like Gonzalez, but would you take Tex at 28 with a career .908 OPS and 190 career HR, or Gonzalez at 26 with a career .839 OPS and 86 career HR?

Basically my point is that these things are all about reputation rather than results.

And no Tex doesn’t deserve to get any votes (no way I’d pick as any of the 5 players I’d most build a team around). That’s no crime.

The real shock is that people would pick guys like 839 OPS Gonzalez (I believe he even got some first place votes).

Keep in mind that in this same poll Albert Pujols, with his 302 HR and 1.042 OPS at the age of 28, didn’t even make the top 5. Way to go professional GMs.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Andy K I agree with you.

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Wow, now Hudson is out too! That’s 4 of the 5 original starters.

I’ve been one to say lets hang in there, but now I believe the tide is turning. If we can’t pitch, it really doesn’t matters a lot less who is in LF or at 1st base.

I think if we trade Tex, another good starter would also be a suitable return.

Where are all the people who insisted that the Braves didn’t need any more starters?

We should have been in the Sabathia sweepstakes and/or Harden. Hudson and 4 rookies was asking for trouble, even though the rooks had a good month in them.

With Chipper out, ironically the only big money guys contributing now are Hampton and Tex. Most opf the payroll is not contributing, no team can survive that.

By who cares

July 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Who really cares about the braves and their over the hill manager, and their AA bullpen. It’s football season, and after watching Cox and this joke of a baseball team finish out of the playoffs for the 3rd year, one can only hope that liberty media sell the team, so we don’t have to watch cox and his boy chipper cry for another year. When you have an ownership that is more concerned about selling porn in hotels, than managing their investment in a baseball team, this is what you get. The braves are spending all their money on Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton, and thus they can’t afford quality middle relief, or a quality bench. This is the worst group of middle releivers in baseball, not to mention the worst bench in baseball. Richmond’s lineup could beat Ring, and Boyer, and not to mention that Miller couldn’t even start at richmond.Liberty should sell the team or actually get involved and act like an ownership, and maybe just maybe make Cox, Pendleton, and Wren answer to someone about their pathetic performance.

By AdirondackDave

July 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Got to agree with Andy, it has to be Jackson or no Arizona deal. Tracy offers little but a problematic one-year rental. I’d rather have two high draft picks. Now Jackson… that’s a different kettle of fish. Kotchman in a package could work too. Tex is going somewhere in the next few days, hope that wait until Thursday for the best deal. Hate to see Ohman go, almost more even than Tex. I was looking forward to DOB telling us more Ohman clubhouse stories.

By Mac

July 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Chad Tracy’s platoon splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=tracych01&year=00#plato-plato

Ugh.

By Mike

July 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do you think the Braves got the deal they wanted and are just holding out for more, or do you think they still don’t like what is out there?

Basically, is Jarrod Parker or Max Scherzer on the table?

But I guess if you knew that you would be a mind reader…..

Just trying to see who the #1 pick will be(Kinda of like waiting for your team to draft in the NFL). Very exciting/embarrassed that my team is picking first feeling.

By lexbrave

July 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

so the two guys they are after for Tex are one that’s a free agent after next season and one that’s arbitration eligible after this season? I think I’d rather have the prospects.

By Carolina Matt

July 28, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance at a Tex for Manny deal? I don’t know how much longer Manny is under contract, but if it’s more than just the rest of this year wouldn’t his power hitting right-handed bat make sense for the Braves?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 28, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox wouldn’t bench Andrew Jones and he won’t bench Jeff Francoeur. Live with it. Cox is a genius.

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Original Jon

I meant, if the Braves got Loney for Tex alone, that would be yet another LH bat in the lineup.

Meaning, it would make sense to trade our LH 2nd baseman to the Dodgers in a trade deal. It would make the deal more enticing for the Dodgers who will need a replacement for Kent next year, and it would make sense for the Braves to finally give Prado a chance and to level out the RH and LH bats in the lineup in doing so.

By AdirondackDave

July 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul - Hmmm… Tex, Youkulis, and Ellsbury are all playing right now. I’m thinking your source is pulling your leg.

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Nick

Nice assessment at 7:26. I thought the same thing when I read that.

Maybe he’s trying to create leverage and interest when saying so, but I doubt it.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

There are at least as many Cardinals fans here as Braves fans. Seriously.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

This is just great 6-0. Man Wren just make the trades I can’t watch this anymore.

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Tell me, Bobby Cox lovers.. How’s that intentional walk working out for ya? Looks like 6-0, eh?

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

I guess my main point here is that the stats really don�t mean a whole lot in this argument. You are not going to convince people who thought Tex would be better than this (mostly because of the hype) to accept that the guy has been everything they�d hoped he�d be. It just hasn�t worked out that way, so some fans are going to direct that frustration toward Tex. The Braves raised the expectations of fans by trading for Tex last year and, if these blogs are any kind of barometer for fan opinion, got burned by it.

You are right.

It’s not that the stats don’t mean a lot in the argument, they do have meaning, just most people won’t understand the meaning because they are just flabbergasted that we would trade away anything of value for anyone who can’t singlehandedly win us the division, no matter how many other problems we have.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2009)

July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

The catcher rounds the bases, OMG ! For funny. The Braves defense is putrid.

By nfieldr

July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

THAT was a little league play… and a bad LL play at that!

By TURTSNAP

July 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Is there anyway, in addition to trading Tex, that the Braves could just call up the entire Richmond roster to play? This is utterly ridiculous!!!!

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Would the loser who falsely posted under my name @ 7:35pm please stand up?

I did not post that BoSox deal. I don’t care if it does come true, I’m still not taking credit for it. Couldn’t even spell Tennessee right. Just about killed my mother.
Still waiting on official word of the agony that is sure to come from the State.

By mike

July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

What a sad franchise the Braves have become when the opposing team has more fans.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

July 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

wow, that was an ugly inning. that looked like the 1988 braves out there …

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t sound too good about Hudson’s elbow. Sounds like the beginnings of Tommy John. Too similar to Hampton’s experience thus far. Hope I’m wrong on this one.

While he’s on the DL, how ‘bout a MRI or two?

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Molina just scored making all the way around the bases. You’re talking about one of the slowest runners on the game.

By faninFaytown

July 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

well at least the braves arent trying to make the decision to change his mind hard on wren

By lilman

July 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

This is embarasing…there are 57 more games like this to come.

Yes, there have been a lot of injuries, but you should be able to play better than this with your 2nd unit.

This is horrible!!!

Good-bye Tex, and please take Cox & Jeffery with you!!!

By h_charles

July 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Goche:

Agree about Tex. Not his fault. However, Gonzalez’ park must be factored in comparison. He plays in a lame lineup in a canyon. Tex played in a launching pad in Texas, and has had better protection in ATL. I’d bet Gonzo’s numbers would equal Tex offensively with the same surroundings.

Of course, defensively there is no question.

BTW — this team looks to have given up. Sad.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

10Paul,

I knew that couldn’t be you. You’re, you know, sane.

By lilman

July 28, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

With this type of start, the players are going to give, and just want get this game over. I wouldn’t be suprised if the Braves arte no-hit tonight. At the very least, they’re prime to be shut out.

Bring out the brown paper bags!!!

By varoadrunner

July 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

This is sick. We will probably sit around sucking our thumbs while the trading deadline comes and goes.

Maybe some GM’s felt duped during John Scherholz’s glory days of trading. Maybe Frank Wren is the price for our past success. Whatever the reason, FW does not seem to be using his head.

Do not trade Tex for Tracy and anyone. What a slide… Throw in Ohman and get jackson. Throw in Hampton, but get us some people that can play baseball and play it well. No more also-rans or medium prospects.

Come on Frank, grow a pair and do your job. So far, I am not impressed!

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

The article on braves.com says Braves All-Star catcher Brian McCann was held out of the starting lineup Monday and will likely miss at least one more game.

No. Not only two games! No. I know we need his bat, but it ain’t gonna be his bat if they rush this thing.

Please, Braves!

Is he there tonight?

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

It took about 100 games for Bobby to find out that JF has to hit 7th…….wonder how many more games til he founds out JF has to hit 8th and then how many for to find out he needs to return to the minors.

1 hit through 4…………JF……………go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a joke

By Morton Hears A Whoa

July 28, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

I think Morton has some talent, though not as much as many on here claim, but I think he is a head case who will never amount to much in the major leagues. He ought to try seeing a shrink.

By SR

July 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Any of you remember the heyday of Georgia Championship Wrestling and the NWA? Remember when a villain (doesn’t matter who, you choose, could have been anyone, the format was always the same) needed a hapless victim to destroy while headed towards one of the more glamorous and err, competitive matches? We used to refer to that poor sap as the “sacrifice”. That ‘s the first image that comes to mind as I see poor Charlie Morton taking one for the team tonight.

By Robin

July 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

This is really, really, really PATHETIC. We look like a HS team out there against these pro teams. I can’t wait for this to be over ……………….really!

Lets get another 9-run inning ……..so we can blow that …..again too.

By Chris

July 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

update on anything DOB?

By Supes

July 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

If there is any common sense…Braves will rest Mac, hell give him 14 days on the DL.

There is NO NEED for BMac right now.

No Chipper, No Huddy, what’s the rush?

Have you seen any of the game so far?

This Braves team is LIFELESS!

Dead. Finished. I’m betting TEX and Ohman have their bags packed and can’t wait to go to a contender.

I hope FRANK WREN is smarter than us…and doesn’t do ANY deal that includes Chad Tracey. JUST SAY NO to that guy.

Plus there are 3 more days and change, some team will sweeten the pot if Wren holds out, you never know. Don’t need to deal TEX and Ohman “RIGHT NOW”. Thursday is the deadline.

One more thing…Braves defense…SHAME, they left Charlie out to dry. He pitched poorly but was betrayed at least twice by errant throws.

By NO MORE BOBBY

July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

No Chipper Jones and Tim Hudson now? God really hates the Braves his year!!

By A-ville Ranger

July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

I really can’t understand how Mcguirk can watch this Braves team and not see how management has eroded.

Tom Landry rates in the top 10 all time of pro football coaches.He clearly wasn’t the same coach in 1988 as he had been in 1978 though.

I can understand loyalty and gratitude but this is blind loyalty in my book.

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

This is ugly, ugly, ugly. The Phillies series took a lot out them along with the injuries.

The current crop of young players don’t have that fortitude that we saw in the early and mid 90’s young players. These guys are talented but can’t sustain that extra gear to step up and meet the challenge of the other team.

I’ve stayed away from commenting about Cox, but this is where he’s going to have to do some work. I’m not going to presume to know more about manging baseball teams than him, but this is a time where a leader of any group of people is going to have to assert his leadership and ride these guys now so they don’t go into a severe nosedive.

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

The Nats & Seattle had better look look out because the Braves are moving on down. They may just make a run at the top draft spot at this rate.

Didn’t the draft Chipper with the first pick in 1989? 20 year later………….

By roman88

July 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

whatever they do I wish the pitiful outfield can be addressed, this is the worst outfield production, or lack there of i’ve seen in years, geez if we still had dye, and drew… dave, why is there never any talk of canizares? checking the richmond roster, his numbers look pretty good, near 300 avg, few errors, and please do something about miller, tavares, gotay, etc.. before ‘09, at least the future looks good with jurjens, campilla..

By Supes

July 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Good job TEX…increase that trade value in your last 3 games as an ATLANTA Braves player!

By roman88

July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

By Greg O.

July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Through four innings at Turner Field, St. Louis 8, East Cobb 0.

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Its officially over……….

2008 season is over for the Braves…………

I just hope they have learned from mistakes.

Mistakes:

Jeff F.
A starting rotation that couldnt pithc more than 5 innings, at least most of them (glavine, hampton, smoltz, jojo, james, morton)
A team built around injured players, or too old players that couldnt hang on for at least 80% of the season): CHIPPER, SMOLTZ, SORIANO, GONZO, GLAVINE, HAMPTON, KOTSAY.
Lots of players not ready to make a major league team : JF, JOJO, JAMES, MORTON, CORKY, BLANCO, BJ, BOYER, , ACOSTA, RIDGWAY, STOCKMAN, GOTAY.
COX being as wayyyyyyyy tooooooo patient with bad performances and bad performers.
Way to many injuries……..this is no coincidence……….no way it has anything to do with the smog in atlanta or the water………trainers and or coaches or somebody is not doing their jobs……………dont ever think this many injuries is bad luck……….you can call Moylan bad luck………or maybe Yunel but here goes the list of injuried players:

MOYLAN, GLAVINE, BENNETT, BOYER, ACOSTA, HAMPTON, CHIPPER, KJ, JF, INFANTE, DIAZ, SMOLTZ, CAMPILLO, KOTSAY, PRADO, MCCAN, JURRJENS.

Thats insane………only position players not injured this season……..BLANCO, TEX (and I think TEX lost a few games or innings because of injury).

By Tyler Johnson

July 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

DAVID O’ BRIEN

WHAT TEAMS HAVE MADE OFFERS

WHEN CAN WE EXPECT A TRADE

TODAY???

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

varoadrunner Why would you trade a starter now? Especially the only starter we have that’s pitched more than a season?

No team is going to take Hampton in a trade with his injury history and big contract.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

SR,

Charlie Morton = Randy or Bill Mulkey

You know what I’m talkin’ bout…

By uga-brave

July 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

let’s try to limit it to two touchdowns.

really no excuses for the outfielder’s air mailing cut off men.

DOB, it’s is going to be you and the cow there for the balance of the season.

By KC

July 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

The Braves can STILL win this division!!!!

Just kidding. It’s over.

I just pray Hudson’s okay, and that there’s nothing wrong with him that could spill over into next year!!!!!

By N Nine

July 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

FRANK WREN you need to make a correct move! Chad tracy would be failure no matter what. THE braves faced more lefties the last two yearsthan any other team. The guy cant hit lefties plus he a huge drop from TEX. you can do better especially YOU HAVE MULTI DEALS on table..DO not i repeat do not get tracy!

By 57Braves

July 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Mound presence and attitude are huge factors in a pitcher’s components for success. Morton has some talent but is lacking big time in those two factors. I know he’s young, but some guys got it, and some don’t. He’s just not “wired” right to be a big time player.

By Robert

July 28, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

I very much doubt that the Braves will get a major leaguer for Tex. They would trade Tex for CJackson, Youkilis, or Kotchman straight up in a heartbeat, but aint gonna happen

They’ll do well to get one legit prospect and a couple of minor league roster fillers

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Carolina Matt, no. Braves aren’t trading Tex for another pending free agent who’s going to cost a fortune to re-sign.

They’re going to trade him for young, cheaper talent that can fill a hole or two next season and possibly for several seasons.

Who really cares about the braves and their over the hill manager, and their AA bullpen. It�s football seasonwho cares

Indeed, who? Oh, that’s right — you do. You’re on this blog and not the Falcons or any college football blog. Thanks for stopping by (again).

By mitchie-san

July 28, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Hudson NO!!!!!!! How can it get any worse??????????????

By Erin

July 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

So is that going to be a Tommy John for Huddy?

Un-FREAKING-believable.

Hampton must have contaminated something.

By mitchie-san

July 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Wren is about to have a press conference about Hudson and it isnt good news….

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

HUDSON MRI today, getting ready to give us results.

By Mike

July 28, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren = Pete Babcock

By Tyler Johnson

July 28, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN DAVID O� BRIEN

**WHAT TEAMS HAVE MADE OFFERS

WHEN CAN WE EXPECT A TRADE

TODAY???**

By Bill in VA

July 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with By Tiger7_88 in his 5:57 post, as a longtime (career) player, catcher, in fact, there was no reason to come in like Vic did. Any team I played for would have found a way to take him out within a few of innings…or the next day, even. Not, I might add, by throwing at his head.

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

h_charles

However, Gonzalez� park must be factored in comparison. He plays in a lame lineup in a canyon.

Honestly I didn’t think of that. The Petco effects combined with the park effects of Tex at Texas ought to make up a good part of the gap.

By Chris

July 28, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, any Hudson news?

By TomL

July 28, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

DOB - You hear anything about a press conference annoucning bad news about Tim Hudson? Yiikes

By Iron Labrum

July 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB…great stuff from Wren. Not that he was ever really in this position, but I can’t image JS being so candid.

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Couldn’t make this stuff up: Injury in “area” of ulnar collateral ligament. Wren wouldn’t say anything more or characterize severity of injury until after Hudson sees Dr. Andrews this week.

Unbelievable.

By mike

July 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Hopefully the Braves will make a trade soon. I don’t know what they are waiting for.

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

wow, Hudson is visiting Doc Andrews.

He’s got some old injury in there. This is muy terrible.

By mitchie-san

July 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Ligament damage…..oh boy. He’s gonna go visit DR. ANDREWS!!! Thats never good.

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Hudson has ligament damage, eh?

By cabravesfan

July 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Not good news about Huddy- sounds like it sould be serious…damn

By Chippendale Dancer

July 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Bloggers are throwing the word stud around again.

Seems like you people really don’t know the meaning of the word.

Now, DOB is a kind of stud. A wordstud.

By s1s2c3t4

July 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

how about kelly johnson and ohman to cards for colby rasmus and ml pitcher????

By Mike

July 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Wow. I am in utter shock. Huddy to have Tommy John???

This is ridiculous. That is it for next season too.

Damn, I wish they dealt him before he got hurt……

By Tommy

July 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Hudson has re-aggravated an old injure from his past and may require Tommy John. O dear…

By champ

July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

TYLER JOHNSON shut the hell up.

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Wow that’s another swift kick in the gut. Add another need for next season. That leaves JJJ as our “ace”. Unreal that a pitching staff can have that many injuries to elbows & shoulders in one season.

This may change who Wren goes after in the trade market.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Okay, here is a trade proposal for the D’Backs situation:

Braves Get:

1B-Connor Jackson: This selection is a given. SP-Max Scherzer: I mean, c’mon, we need a pitcher, a young one at that, and a rotation of Hudson, Jurrjens, Scherzer, Campillo, and Glavine wouldn’t be horrible.

Diamondbacks Get: 1B-Tex (The whole basis of the trade.) LF-Brandon Jones (Jackson had been playing LF for them, Jones gives them a possible replacement. Draft Pick Considerations

By Bo

July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Everyone has a deal for Wren. I hope they go with Angels and get Kotchman and pitching. Just get it done!

By joesizzle

July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

dob -

if i were wren this is what i would aim for:

what about a tex trade to the d-backs in a multiplayer deal that included either max scherzer or jarrod parker and then a trade with the pirates that would bring adam laroche back to atlanta (aren’t they interested in lillibridge again, too? and could the d-backs be interested in ohman too?

i think laroche is a free agent at the end of the year and it would be smart move for wren to find a good long term replacement for tex to quickly appease and reassure tomahawk nation. he could probably do that with adam laroche - don’t you think?

By randy

July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

David,

Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Whoopdy.

It just keeps getting better.

By uga-brave

July 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

not good news on huddy. most people that make that trip to birmingham come back with the same diagnosis.

By Supes

July 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Hudson visiting Dr. Andrews - NOT GOOD

If I’m the Braves, I shut down Huddy for a while.

Maybe they can call up Hanson from AA. Give the kid a chance, let’s see what he has, why wait until next year’s spring training to see if he can be in the rotation.

After the deals are made for either TEX or Ohman or whoever, bring up as many kids…including Josh Anderson and Brandon Jones, let them play!

This august and september is the time to find out what we really have in our young players from the minors.

As I type this…Braves signs of life…one run scored, at least they won’t get shutout at home by Looper.

KC I wondered where you went with your positive thinking my friend, we need you now more than ever to put a good spin on it. It can’t get any worse…can’t it?

By Chris

July 28, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

tex is bout to be gone…chipper on the dl…hudson going to visit Dr. Andews…plus moylan, glav, soriano, smoltz, and probably a couple of ushers or somebody…

is it too late for the General Assembely to reconsider the Sunday Alcohol sales? I have a feeling I’m gonna need it.

Thanks for the updates DOB, keep us posted.

By Mike

July 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Well, that is it then. 2009 is a goner too. This is the worst s** I have ever seen.

That was the biggest hit this franchise has taken in years folks.

The biggest.

Hudson was depended on. Really depended on to lead this rotation. Now he might be gone until 2010. He has an option for that year, but is coming off TJ surgery.

This is an injury that changes the direction of the franchise.

By JasonInMaine

July 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Iam not being wise, but the Braves seem to have a lot of TJ surgeries lately: lerew, hampton, moylan, Gonzo (hurt before trade?), and now maybe Hudson…

Anything to do with a change in their throwing program that they used to have under Leo or is it basically the same program?

By LT-AA Blogger

July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Hudson- ughhh!

Let the offseason Ben Sheets or CC Sabathia debate begin! Gotta go for CC- no Sheets (pun intended).

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Wow. It’s NEVER good to see Dr. Andrews. Now we will really have to stockpile cash to go after Sabathia or Sheets or somebody like that.

On another note, Bowman said in a post on the mlb.com trade blog that the Yankees have shown some interest in Tex. If that’s true, it’s always good to have the Yankees involved.

By Big Easy

July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Well, what a craptastic day. Our family dog dies, and Hudson might need Tommy John.

It could get worse…but not by much.

~E~

By Yokohama Daze

July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Particularly in light of this news about Hudson, it seems to me that the Braves almost have to get a pitching prospect in any deal. Sure hope we can get Parker or Scherzer as part of any deal with the D-Backs, particularl;y if we’re to accept a relatively lesser light like Tracy. Heck, I’d be interested to see if the Bravos don’t make getting young pitching in return on any deal their top priority now…

By Jake

July 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

You know I knew it was going to be hard for us with all the injuries but this makes no sense. They could at least try. The Cardinals just got whipped by the Mets and Brewers, now here they come in here beating up on us. These players have no pride. They talk about how much they love their teammates and their manager. Yet know one is really playing hard for them. I could stomach the losses better if I knew we were fighting to the end.

By Run, Heap, Run!

July 28, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

I’m shedding a tear thinking of the lineup without Chipper, Mac, or Tex in the next several days/weeks.

Confucious say save your money…more blow outs coming soon.

By randy

July 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

David,

Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?

By randy

July 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

David,

Is there any chance we still land Jason bay before the deadline?

By Mike

July 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I think McDowell should be fired after this year and put Pendleton and Cox on the hotseat for next year. We need a young manager to lead this team.

By JEB

July 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

For Tim Hudson: The UCL - that’s the same as Moylan, Hampton, Smoltz(2000), Gonzales. They all had something in common also - TJ surgery. Man… I don’t know that I have ever seen a team have as much hard times as this team this year.

By Tom A. Hawk

July 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

What a nightmare this season is turning in to…

By N8

July 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

After seeing those day/night splits for Tex, I am further convinced that not only should he be batting in the 6th spot in the order, he should be platooned and ONLY play in day games.

For those of you that didn’t see them on the broadcast, he has 13 HR in 33 day games, and 7 HR in 69 night games, while having a .390 Ave, with a .590 OBP and a .890 SLG percentage in day games, compared to his .228 Ave, his .327 OBP, and his .362 SLG percentage in night games.

Wren better hope that either A) prospective trade partners DON’T have access to those stats, or B) they have a LOT of Day games remaining on the calendar. I’m gonna just go out on a limb here, and guess that Boras isn’t gonna have those splits highlighted and on the first page of his Tex Encyclopedia of Stats/Biography at the end of the year, huh?

Like I said about a month ago, too bad for Tex that the Cubs have Derek Lee locked up. Tex would be PERFECT in that park.

By uga-brave

July 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

the curse of jane fonda rears its head.

By Supes

July 28, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

OK, anyone who is saying Huddy will be out for 2009 season, you don’t know that yet.

Why not wait until we get word after his visit with Dr. Andrews before declaring doom and gloom for 09.

By fastasballs

July 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

If Wren does deal with Arizona maybe he can pick up Owings. When he’s not pitching he would be the best bat on the bench that we have, well as the roster is currently constructed.

In all seriousness the Braves have more problems than they can probably deal with in one off season. They knew Tex would most likely have to be replaced, but now they are probably not going to have the Hudson for next season, maybe Smoltz as well. Moylen is coming off of TJ surgery & who knows how he will respond. Gonzalez just returned, but set backs are always a fear & can be expected to some degree.

The rotation, line up bench & bullpen are all question marks for next season. Oh what a mountain Frank Wren has to climb to have this team compete next season.

By Katz

July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop all the asinine trade proposals. And when I say that I mean please stop all trade proposals. Every trade proposal I have seen on here has been asinine. Stick with the principal players you’d like such as Loney, Kotchman, Jackson or Tracy and then please stop guessing and making demands like any of you have a clue. Just have faith that the Braves scouts and the front office will know what supplementary pieces need to be added to the trade. Almost every single trade I have seen proposed on here would have been rejected by the sim computer on my XBOX

By Run, Heap, Run!

July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB is Heap back in ATL yet? Are Chipper and Huddy even at the park?

By Big Easy

July 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

You know, a suggestion that I saw, I believe from Ken Rosenthal, makes a lot of sense. You know, the D-Backs really won’t want to give up Conor Jackson. But, if they had to settle for Chad Tracy, and another piece, maybe Micah Owings would be available. He hasn’t had a great run lately, but he is a solid pitcher.

And, he hits better than some of our regulars.

Again, saw it in Rosenthal’s story, but not sure the Braves or the D-Backs would do it.

~E~

By brent a.

July 28, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Big Easy

Sorry about the dog.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Hudson to Dr. Andrews. F#CK!

I’ve said it before, this team needed more quality major league ready starters for the rotation. And now, with this news, nothing has changed other than the quantity the team needs.

That bad side, this has the potential to result in a signing of an “elite” starter from the free agent market… which would narrow the list down to CC Sabathia or Ben Sheets. One is just waiting to get all Barto, and the other is well practiced to step in for Hampton.

The bright side… We still have Teixeira. Perhaps now the focus will be more on a pitcher than Chad Tracy.

And the hits just keep on comin’

By N8

July 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

DOB

If Wren is truly trying to make a trade with Tex as the centerpiece, to not only save money (that would have been spent on Tex), but to compete next year, do you think the possible loss of Hudson (which I’m gonna assume would be partially covered by insurance), would “heighten” the chances of the Braves making a strong financial push for a guy like Ben Sheets or CC Sabathia?

Just seems to me that if they don’t replace Hudson (if he’s out) with a LEGIT ACE, then they might as well write off 2009 as rebuilding anyhow, huh?

Let me be the first to predict that Mike Hampton will be in our starting rotation next season….be it at a MUCH cheaper rate than right now.

By Meier

July 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Mike, you’re the biggest idiot I’ve seen on here in a long time. Go read your comic books, and maybe grow a pair. You have nothing to offer here.

By JJMB

July 28, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Wow wow wow wow. That bat came one inch from spearing blue’s brain (through his eye).

I ‘d be buying some serious eye protection.

By Enuffzenuff

July 28, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Oh where oh where has my Mazzoooone gone? Oh where oh where can he beeee?

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

I just posted something about injuries about 30 minutes ago and boooommmm,,,,,,, Hudson to visit surgery table…….

This is no coincidence………..this players clearly are no doing a good conditioning program……..

You can add AJ to that problem, thats why he was out of shape, etc.

Problem with this is that there is a big chance James will never get out of his live long injuries if they dont change something about their warm ups and conditioning, etc

Wouldnt be surprised to see at least 2 more pitchers and 2 more position player hit the DL .

By Mike

July 28, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Fastasballs

Owings is a vastly overrated prospect and I hope that this recent Tim Hudson news doesn’t stray Frank Wren from realizing that prospects Jarrod Parker and Max Scherzer have more value.

SAY NO TO MICAH OWINGS.

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Good point about Kelly Johnson. I don�t know what the winter market will be like (a trade, more likely). I�ve always thought that Prado was the better defender. Fans rap him for his range, but at least the balls he gets to he usually fields. Frankly, I never thought Prado had a chance to compete fairly for the position; management was bound and determined to go with Johnson Jeff R

Nice post. Prado never really got a fair chance. He’s a 2nd baseman by trade, didn’t have to convert, and had monstrous spring trainings the last 2 years. People on here love KJ, but I firmly believe Prado is the better player. The year KJ converted though, they wanted Prado to have another year in AAA, in which he led Richmond deep into the IL playoffs. This year, he should’ve been given the chance to compete for the starting gig, and as KJ has dropped offensively, he should finally be given that chance.

They have Lillbridge and Prado (who I guess can both be coverted to play 2B, although they normally play on the other side of the diamond) Supes

Maybe that’s why many on here don’t like Prado, because they don’t know much about him. Supes, Prado is not from the other side of the diamond. He’s always been a 2nd baseman and had a .995 fielding % in 87 games last year in Richmond.

By Lew

July 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Supes_You’d shut Hudson down for a while? Dude, if it’s what it looks like, you won’t see him next year, either. TJ surgery is in his future. They ain’t even doing the High Resolution MRI and are sending him to the knife man.

By gayle

July 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Einstein’s got it right. All this trade talk is so much blather. Unless this team is willing to make changes at the top, it just doesn’t matter.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

This is what I would think the Braves lineup will be next year including the Tex trade:

Lineup:

CF Gregor Blanco
SS Yunel Escobar
3B Chipper Jones
LF Manny, Bradley, or Abreu
C Brian Mccan
1B Conor Jackson, James Loney, or Casey Kotchman
RF Jeff Franceour
2B Kelly Johnson
Pitcher

Starting pitchers:

Tim Hudson
Ben Sheets, CC, Lackey, or Brad Penny
Jair Jurrjens
Jorge Campillo
Tom Glavine or Mike Hampton

Relivers:

John Smoltz
Mike Gonzales
Rafael Soriano
Peter Moylan
Blaine Boyer
Jeff Bennet
Eddie Guardado

So what happens here is, the braves trade Tex for a very capable first baseman. They sign an outfielder that would provide them some power, and they sign an ace caliber pitcher instead of Texeira, and sign a veteran lefty in eddie Guardado. They decline Smoltz 12 million dollar and resign him along with Glavine, and Hampton for a total of 4 million( you don’t lose much and possibly get a lot if they could stay healthy). Obviously this team needs to stay healthy because if they don’t it will be the same as this year.

By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)

July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

It’s beginning to look like JS got the hell out of the GM seat while the “gettin’ was good”.

This is not all Wren’s fault. The man is dealing with more “major” injuries to key players in one season than JS dealt with in 17 seasons.

Well. The 80’s are back. Looks like I need to revisit the “mullet salon”, so I can fit in.

By woogidy

July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance the Braves move Tex and Will Ohman for a propsed plan to build a hospital just over the right field fence? This way we could at least see the players on the team at the games. Maybe they could do a dance(one-legged for chipper) and do the Tomahawk chop(off arm for pitchers) on top of it.

By Greg

July 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Wow! We’re going to finish last. Good news for the Nats. Maybe if Liberty buys a free agent pitcher or two, we can go worst to first again. Hope springs eternal.

By Interested Observer

July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

After we dump Tex’s and Hampton’s salary this offseason, the biggest drain on the Braves payroll may be Dr. Andrews.

By Jman

July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox will never be on the hot seat. Neither should he be. He’s earned the right to manage this team as long as he desires or until he becomes a detriment such as Bobby Bowden at FSU or JoePa at Penn St. Tex trade to DBacks HAS to include Conor Jackson. Chipper needs to go as well. How many HUGE series has this choker missed all year!?! Ridiculous! He all of a sudden cant walk when it comes to the Mets or Phillies. This is the second Philly series he missed. Cmon!

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Maybe Hudson can get some pointers from Hampton.. Ya know, like what to do when your “hurt and can’t work” but have millions in the bank.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Auspicious debut for Mr. Clint Sammons.

Why didn’t Jeff Bennett start. Morton is not ready for prime time.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Big E—

I’m sorry to hear about your dog. : (

Run, Heap, Run!—

I was wondering that, too (is McCann back yet?).

You should change your name to Heal, Heap, Heal for the time being.

There’s something about this game�it doesn’t feel like I’m watching the Braves�

By David O'Brien

July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Here’s story I just filed:

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Pitcher Tim Hudson has a potentially serious elbow injury, the latest blow in a nightmarish season for the can�t end soon enough for the Braves.

�It�s in the ligament area [and] it�s more than inflammation,� Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday�s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field. �We�ve had more than our share [of injuries], that�s for sure.�

Then he mustered a smile and said, �Could throw a yellow flag for piling on.�

Hudson wasn�t available for comment before the game.

The Braves placed Hudson and third baseman Chipper Jones (hamstring) on the 15-day disabled list earlier in the day, but manager Bobby Cox had indicated it was more a precautionary measure with Hudson and that the right-hander would probably be fine after missing a couple of starts.

But that was before the Braves got back the MRI results from the 4 p.m. exam Hudson had in Atlanta.

The report was not good, though Wren said he wouldn�t characterize in any more detail until after Hudson was examined by the Braves� orthopedist and Andrews at his clinic in Birmingham, Ala.

Wren said only that the injury was in �the area� of the ulnar collateral ligament. If it�s a torn ligament, Hudson could face season-ending �Tommy John� ligament-transplant surgery and a recovery period that typically lasts at least 12 months.

The Braves will hope for something less severe in their 33-year-old ace�s pitching arm. Hudson is 11-7 with a 3.17 ERA in a staff-leading 142 innings, and has a 146-77 career record in 10 seasons with Oakland and Atlanta.

The Alabama native is in the third year of a four-year, $47 million contract extension he signed after being traded from Oakland following the 2004 season. He is scheduled to make $13 million in 2009, with a $12 million option for 2010 that�s mutual and includes a $1 million buyout.

Hudson left his Wednesday start at Florida after six scoreless innings due to upper forearm/elbow soreness, but threw Sunday in Philadelphia and said he was fine and would make his next start.

Instead, the Braves said earlier Monday they would turn to Jorge Campillo on Tuesday.

�I�m gonna rest [Hudson],� Cox said Monday afternoon. �He�s not �fine.� Why take a chance right now? If it�s bothering him, it�s bothering him. He always makes himself available [to pitch].�

With the fourth-place Braves 7-1/2 games back in the National League East after blowing big leads in losses Saturday and Sunday to the Phillies, the Braves saw no reason to risk further injury to Hudson.

As it turned out, the damage was already done. Wren said the MRI revealed injuries that included some older damage and some new. Again, he would not elaborate, other than to say there had not been warning signs before Wednesday�s start.

�I think everybody was a little surprised there was something [injured in the elbow],� Wren said.

Hudson is the fourth member of the Braves� season-opening rotation to land on the DL, after John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton. Rookie Jair Jurrjens also missed a start with a sprained ankle.

Smoltz had season-ending shoulder surgery, and Glavine is trying to come back from a partially torn flexor tendon near his pitching elbow.

By RC

July 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

For all that’s gone wrong this year, Wren did a great job in the offseason trying to plan for problems. I can’t think of another team that could have lost the players we did (#1,3, and 4 pitchers, closer and set-up man, Chipper at various points of the season, and the implosion of Francouer) and still be somewhat in the race at this point in the season. It does look like a daunting task for this team to rebuild, but I am confident Wren will put together a strong club. Think about how he’s done in trades this year:

Renteria = Jurrjiens/Gorkys Asciano (sp?) = Ohman/Infante minor $$ = Gotay/Norton (bad as they can be, both has won us games we don’t win without them)

The only real misfire was signing Glavine, and at the time is seemed like a good move, just didn’t work out.

By MAV

July 28, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Coach I guess it’s Bobby Cox’s fault that Hudson has to go see Dr. Andrews. I’m sure you will blame himfor just about anything, including your pathetic lonely life!

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Sorry N8, you’re not the first. I predicted several weeks ago.

But I agree with you too that the Braves better be in on the Sheets and Sabathia sweepstakes during the Winter.

I like Lowe as well.

Without Smoltz and Hudson, the Braves need a #1starter, maybe even a 2 as well.

JJ is very good, but he’s not a #1 yet.

Expect Hampton back, if healthy, and maybe Glavine as well.

So a any trade now has got to fill a hole or provide pieces that will fill holes.

By John

July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Down 9 in the 8th inning, I MIGHT consider getting Tex out of there. Be kinda silly if he tweaked his back, or got hit on the wrist by an inside fastball. (And yes…I’m knockin’ on wood as I type)

By Robert

July 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Time to call up some minor leaguers and have a look-see as to whether they can hack it in the bigs

And we will learn a LOT about the makeup of the vets on the team who now face two or three rebuilding years in the near future

No time like the present to bring in new leadership

By A-ville Ranger

July 28, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Forget this season,let’s hope Tim can come back NEXT season.

By Andy

July 28, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Frenchy and James for Greinke. That’ll at least give us another sp for next year. Hopefully, we get another young starter for Tex. If we have to, I’ll take Kevin Millar at 1b. Maybe we could get Mike Jacobs. Just throwing that out there. Pitching wins, so let’s rebuild around Jurrjens and Greinke.

By Calvin

July 28, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Ok Seriously…who is piling on here? Come on….

Hudson’s MRI shows ligament damage

ATLANTA — Braves general manager Frank Wren would like to find the individual who cursed the projected starting rotation that he carried into this season. Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.

Link

By uga-brave

July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

royce ring is gonna get hurt out there.

note to royce, it is gonna take more then shaving your beard.

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

TP has been a failure as batting coach. Maybe his own unorthodox batting style wasn’t the best foundation for teaching a more traditional approach. Kinda like a rock guitarist teaching country…

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

So where do the Braves pitchers rank in terms of ERA?

By roman88

July 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

think of this, 2 hollidays, roy holiday and matt holliday, but if connor jackson comes here, make sure his agent isn’t boras

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

JEB

For Tim Hudson: The UCL - that�s the same as Moylan, Hampton, Smoltz(2000), Gonzales. They all had something in common also - TJ surgery. Man� I don�t know that I have ever seen a team have as much hard times as this team this year.

TJ is surgery to replace the UCL…so duh.

By Dadgum

July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

OUCH!!!! The Braves are a desperate bunch. We now have no experienced starters. NONE!! I have said it for months but Hudson is what you would want in a #3 starter now he is our top starter and he is gone. Glavine is no longer serviceable as a #1

By Dadgum

July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

By RMF

July 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

I do not understand why so many want to see Wren do something today. The season is over and Tex, Ohman and Kotsay (and probably others) are on the market —- Wren should milk it until 3:59 Thursday to get the best deal possible and to see how various injury/trade situations play out.

The Yanks have just announced that Posada is out for the season. They may get back in the Tex sweepstakes. If Manny does get traded, the Sox may get in. There would be nothing better than to get the Sox and Yanks involved in this which may also make the Angels more interested.

Ohman will also draw a lot of interest. Wren should work the field, generate interest and work to play teams against each other. Patience is very important in any negotiation and will be very imporant here since these trades will hopefully be the first steps in getting the Braves back in 09/ Lets trust Wren on this —- the Rentaria trade gives him the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

What a shame —- this season had so much promise.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Ring sucks. How is he still on the majors. I know it’s albert pujols but still he needs to have a 123 inning sometime. Please designate him Wren. Now Hudson is probably done for the season, if he needs surgery he better take it right know for him to at least have a chance for next year.

By Doc Holliday

July 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

I just posted something about injuries about 30 minutes ago and boooommmm,,,,,,, Hudson to visit surgery table…….

This is no coincidence………..this players clearly are no doing a good conditioning program……..

You can add AJ to that problem, thats why he was out of shape, etc.

Problem with this is that there is a big chance James will never get out of his live long injuries if they dont change something about their warm ups and conditioning, etc

Wouldnt be surprised to see at least 2 more pitchers and 2 more position player hit the DL .

By Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!

July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

As always, thanks for the updates, DOB.

Hey McFann, good idea. : )

Condolences, Big E. : (

By Shamus Thacker

July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Wow, by the time Huddy rehabs and has several sore-elbow [scar tissue breaking loose] episodes, it’s mid-2010.

By Robin

July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Tom-A-Hawk: A nightmare season indeed but, just wait. I have a feeling the gods aren’t done with us yet. Something else bad is going to happen before this year is out, I can just feel it. Just when you think it can’t get any worse ………………….

Bad enough for us to realize we’re out of it at the end of July …..er May, now 2009 is looking like a wash too unless there’s a SERIOUS and I mean SERIOUS make-over. Let’s start with losing this blase’ attitude that permeates this organization. Until then ………it’s gonna be more of the same.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox will never be on the hot seat. Neither should he be. He�s earned the right to manage this team as long as he desires or until he becomes a detriment…

Bobby Cox has already become a detriment.

There is no “divine right” for managers.

Mr. Whipple manages the TP aisle better than Cox manages the Braves.

By bravos2249

July 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Man the Braves need to have their pitchers have monthly MRI’s on their arms..TOO many arm injuries

COULD Huddy have the same issue as Glavine did/does?

By Lennie G

July 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or do they not make elbows like they used to back in the day???

By Flustered Fan

July 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Braves=Quitters and Losers

By h_charles

July 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Huddy possiblities: From what it sounds, either a partial or full tear of the ligament.

A partial tear: 3 months rehab, done for year.

Full tear: Done this year, done next year.

Either way, no more Huddy in 08.

By RC

July 28, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t call either guy a “stud”, but two players I’d like to see the Braves make a play at this offseason: Derek Lowe and Pat Burrell. Lowe won’t be a front-line rotation guy, but he is consistent and gets LOTS of groundballs. Burrell might cost more than the Braves are willing to pay, but if not he can provide the right-handed power bat this team DESPERATELY needs.

I also except that if he is able to return, the team reworks Smoltz’s contract (no way they pay him the option money) so that he will be a 3rd or 4th guy in the rotation for somewhere between 6-8 million. The news about Hudson is really, really bad though…if this team is going to do anything next year, he has to be healthy.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

The Yanks have just announced that Posada is out for the season.

Then the obvious trade is Corky Miller for Melky Cabrera and a player TBNL.

By Andy K.

July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

A move has to be going after this game…too much has already happened for one not too. I keep checking line-ups to see if Jackson is still in there.

By F*ck Chip Caray

July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Nice stat padding, Tex. No pressure, meaningless RBI. Enjoy where ever you endup. Braves need someone more clutch.

By Katz

July 28, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Here comes N8, The Man of Constant Sorrow and Coach, The Soggy Bottom Boy.

By JJMB

July 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

I thought this was an interesting article on gene doping. The next way to cheat.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Big Tex with another RBI in a “late and hopeless” situation.

Go Tex. Yes. Just Go.

By RC

July 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

All these injuries can only mean one thing:

Is VERY bad to drink Jobu’s rum……

By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)

July 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

“….Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday�s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field.”

WOW!

What you don’t think that the Braves are gonna come back in this one? It’s ONLY 12-3. Come on. Have some faith.

Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Braves should trade Ohman for an MRI technician.

By Drummerdad

July 28, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

By S.A. Williams

July 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

I realize that we’re playing with a thin bench at the moment and “trying” to win, but at what point in a 12-3 game do you pull your prized trading chip? I’d hate to see anything happen to Tex with the injury bug in the air…

By A-ville Ranger

July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Tomas,Hampton as a Braves starter next year ? ”Thank you sir, may I have another ?”.

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

It�s in the ligament area [and] it�s more than inflammation,� Braves general manager Frank Wren said during a hastily called press conference during Monday�s loss against St. Louis at Turner Field

DOB The game’s not over yet. We scored 9 in one inning against the Phils. We can do it in the 9th against the Cards… maybe tonite in my dream.

By N8 (The 80's are back.....bring back the Powder Blues)

July 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Katz

F*** off.

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Get well soon, Heap, Get well soon!—

There ya go!

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

If Frank still is undecided about selling he doesn’t deserve to be a GM.

By A bemused observer

July 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.

If I were Jair Jurrjens I would get some heavy duty voodoo amulets for protection.

By Bobby's Cox

July 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Any word if the team’s Health Care premium has increased over the past year?

By Drummerdad

July 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

By Dadgum

July 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Sorry my post was cut off somehow…oh never mind.

By Braves fan born in 1987

July 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?

By F*ck Chip Caray

July 28, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Glad I sold my tickets to all of the Cardinal games this week. Would not pay to see this AAA team play. Look for CC Sabathia to toss a no hitter on Saturday against this motley crew.

By Katz

July 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

ATLANTA � Braves general manager Frank Wren would like to find the individual who cursed the projected starting rotation that he carried into this season. Following the same path previously traveled by John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson now potentially has a serious injury.

Please stop the excuse making. PLEASE. It’s not a curse. It was stupidity.

Two 40+ year olds.

A guy in his mid 30s who has not pitched in 3 years.

Two closers who were damaged goods when they were traded for.

Another potential closer in Moylan who was abused by his manager last season to the point that an injury was inevitable

A young starter with a partially torn rotator cuff that they didn’t repair with surgery

A centerfielder who was damaged goods when he was traded for.

A team filled with old farts, young inconsistent players, and damaged goods is not cursed. It is what is. And it is a poorly constructed ball team. You get what you pay for. The run is over and has been over since 2005. Bid farewell to Bobby and start over.

No Hudson. no Smoltz, no Tex, an aging and hurting Chipper means this team will suck really bad for the forseeable future. It will take tearing it down and having the patience and courage to rebuild like Cox had from 85 to 91.

By Chippendale Dancer

July 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

…I wouldn�t call either guy a �stud�…

Oh come on. Put your lips together and give me S. Give me a T. Give me a U. Give me a D.

What’s that spell?

You go, girlfriend.

By The Goche

July 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else think they should DL McCann?

I think that they would be absolutely stupid to let him come back in 3 or 4 days like he thinks he’ll be able to.

I don’t care if his head has stopped hurting, if he’s not feeling any effects, concussions breed more concussions. And those new concussions are usually worse. The sooner you get back out there, the greater the risk.

If he’s not dealing with post-concussion syndrome yet, just let him take another knock in the head.

I think we dodged a bulled in that it was only a mild concussion. I think that if he rests for a good while it may be like it never happened (or as close as you can get after a concussion).

There is nothing for McCann to come back for any time soon. I would probably try to keep him out for at least a couple weeks if it was my decision. But I think that if they don’t give him at least a week off they are just testing their luck, and if anything happens it will hurt Mac and it will hurt the team.

I think that this team that Mac has already given so much owe it to him to look out for him and his health, and it’s smarter for the team anyway.

By Tomas

July 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Tavares hasn’t looked that bad, except for his first outing as a braves he has been pretty solid.

By Steve from OH

July 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

JJMB:

Very interesting, to say the least. I doubt it would be a big problem, due to complexity of treatment and tons of dangers, but no doubt someone will try it (maybe Fernando Tatis is doing it now?).

By 30YrBravesFan

July 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Read a couple days ago on MLB.com that KC was interested in Frenchy. Anything to that?

Thanks for the great article.

By duh

July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Injuries were bad but in the last week this team rolled over and died on B.C. This team quit. You can’t take waiver players and make World Series team, it just won’t work. Please trade EVERYONE over 30 including Chipper. Get something while you can but don’t middle of the road this one, start over…completely

By Jeff321

July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Maybe its just me, but Julian Tavarez is better than Boyer or Ring.

By RC

July 28, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad,

LaRoche will have one more year after this one until he is eligible for free agency.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

1987 Fan,

I was going to mention that there are Braves fans currently in high school who have never been alive in a season the Braves were playing meaningless games in July.

Until now.

By Firetheoldfool

July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Cox is the reason. No other.

By Rayman

July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?

It was much much worse…….

Trust me.

By JMar

July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

I bet we can get something a lot better than Jose Ascanio from the Cubs for Will Ohman right now.

By TennesseePaul

July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Nice DOB. Filed the report before the game was even over… already calling it a loss… missing the miraculous 9th inning come back where the team bats around the order 3 times with Clint Sammons knocking in 9 runs in the inning.

OK. I’ll put the pipe down.

By bruce

July 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Is it ok if I just cry? Hudson news is just over the top… yellow flag is nice humor, but I could just cry.

By Katz

July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

So is this what it was like in Atlanta in the 1980s?

No son. the 80s were much, much worse. This is really bad baseball but that horror show in the 80s was some legendary stuff. We already have almost as many wins as we did in 1988. That;s the problem with this team. They can’t even be really bad. They can only be really really slightly below average. I say if you are gonna suck, then really suck.

By mitchie-san

July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Its official…that cow is bad luck. Take it down!

By McFann O

July 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Well, that was absolutely no fun.

Night, all.

By matta

July 28, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Adam LaRoche isn’t a free agent until 2010. He’s arb. eligib. in 2009

By Kashi

July 28, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Maybe if Fren Wren wasn’t in Philly watching over braves players, we would have sweept Philly’s -lol. Really what the heck is wrong with our bullpen? NO matter what I was never impressed with Boyer or Ring. DOB I was wandering if there is a rule what a runner can do or can’t beating a throw on home plate. My dad and I was talking on Sunday after what happened to BMac that head on hit with helmet with full speed guy always have advantage over catcher. A baseball players do different weight trainning so the guys are not strong as football. Don’t you think that there should be rule runner can’t run into catcher but could slid to avoid tag? We are talking about a career of some young fine catcher in every team/league. We all know what happened to J Estrada and where he is right now and he was a top prospect once until got banged at plate.

My guts feeling, get power outfield hitting (trade or sign in off season), keep Tex all the way and nego. with him. Only team that I see can offer more than 20M for several year is Yankees and Red Sox. So if we offer around 20M or 18.5M but one more year + incentive then Red Sox or Yankees, Tex might opt to stay with Braves due to fan base pressure on North. If Tex is gone then we get a fine two prospecct who could be a trade bite for some other team in year or two. Keep the team together and add power outfield. Oh forgot to mention about bullpen. Please don’t except anything from Moylen or Smoltz..they are bonus if they bounce back. Get Mike Hampton for a bargain price with second year option. This guy is a warrior when healthy.

For a Chipper sake…keeep Tex, Chip is getting old and there is no better player then Tex to protect Chipper. Tex have and will save lots of games even though he is a slow starter. We only see & remember fireworks but easily forget his great defense in $20M.

By Sandro from the Bi�nnale

July 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Can we go ahead and get Jair Jurrjens a padded suit and 8-man security detail to make sure no anvils or pianos fall on his head? If he gets hurt too in this black hole of a year…I want to keep his arm in a glass case and only break it open in case of emergency.

By Charlie Liebrandt

July 28, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

I’d rather watch the WNBA than this crap.

By Katz

July 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Any word if the team�s Health Care premium has increased over the past year?

no. the high cost of the geriatrics they keep around has been offset by the preexisting conditions they love to trade for

By ArkyTech

July 28, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Everything went down hill when Chip Carey came to town…..

By Robert

July 28, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Leo Mazzone was the real force behind “the streak”

Rebuild thru 2010, hire a brand new manager and coaching staff, and contend again about 2011

By DHD

July 28, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Somewhere in the distant, I hear Dandy Don singing…Turn out the Lights, the party’s over…..

Let’s make a deal!! Get us some young studs in here and let’s see what will happen. that Marlins do it, why not us??

Good Luck, Frank.

By matta

July 28, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Sandro - good idea. Jair has already fallen down the stairs once this season.

By chase

July 28, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

What about Carl Crawford for Scott Thorman? Then we could get Chone Figgins to bat leadoff for Greg Norton and Ruben Gotay. I think we could pick up Sabathia for Carlyle and Chuck James.

Seems about right. Oh we raised the white surrender flag, today… nevermind.

Does anyone else have any dumb@ssed ideas that can build on this? Know you guys have missed me since I changed my handle to Coach Smith.

By NCBravesFan

July 28, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Sad, sad news in a really sad season. Good luck, Huddy.

Even more pathetic than the Braves’ luck is the reaction of so many bloggers to the spate of injuries. This blog has become a real nightmare in and of itself, filled with nonsensical trade scenarios and nitwittery posted by people who know nothing about the game.

DOB, I don’t know how you put up with this place right now.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Good evening, all…

Out at ssa, and saw the score… Not a surprise at all. And Tex is officially on the market.

Something I’ve been waiting to hear and didn’t until tonight, is the strengthening and conditioning program. I seem to recall a few years ago the Mets fired their strengthening and conditioning coach after a rash of injuries to their players.

And why is it that only the ones that are producing are the ones getting hurt? (except Hampton)

I think the Braves are in for a long and painful rebuilding process. Too many holes to fill, which is eerily similar to the problems of the ’80s.

Say goodbye to: Tex, JF, KJ, Corky Miller, Hampton, Glavine, Boyer, Ring, and JoJo… all could or should be traded, sent down, released, etc… not sure what we could get for them, but much change is needed before we even think about playoffs. Hopefully by 2012 the Braves will be contenders again.

By N Nine

July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

congrats DOB

you have said “unbelievable” at a new record this year* unreal

By Chippendale Dancer

July 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

I�d rather watch the WNBA than this crap

And I’d rather watch Dirty Dancing.

Patrick Swayze is an S T U D.

By rupert

July 28, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

I�d rather watch the WNBA than this crap.

your alone on that one chief

By Robin

July 28, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Well, that was absolutely no fun. - teehee, yup pretty much sucked didn’t it? Man, this is getting old but, HEY, Aug.1 is a fresh season …..almost. :(

By Braves fan born in 1987

July 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

So let’s consider the potential news that Hudson will miss most of 2009. With Smoltz’s career in limbo and his return almost certainly to be as a reliever, Glavine’s future also uncertain with a team that will find it very hard to compete, Hampton walking in a contract year… dear god, what will the rotation look like.

Jurrjens & Campillo are the only ones I can think of that are locks as of now. Do we add Morton back to the mix? Do we fast track Tommy Hanson? Do we now change our priorities for Teixeira from an MLB ready 1B to a stockpile of pitching? What chips do we still have that can be traded in the offseason? Do we part with Francoeur when his value is at an all time low? Do we trade Gonzo because we won’t have a realistic chance at competing anyways?

Very critical couple of days for the future of this team. With a rotation like that, we could fall to Nats territory.

By DesiBrave

July 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

KATZ!! I tip my cap buddy.. You are so right in what you said and thats the right way to look at. Questions should have been raised when Smoltz was doing his own spring training routine away from the rest of the team. I bet Smoltz was hurting during that time. Had they done any tests on his arm right then they would have found the issue and Smoltz would have been back from Rehab by now.

By rmf

July 28, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Agree on the 80’s —- I was here and went to a lot of games. It was much, much worse. The only good thing was that you could buy a cheap ticket and end up sitting pretty close to the front row.

This is mediocre baseball played by an injury riddled team with at least some talent in a nice stadium. The 80’s were terrible baseball played by terrible teams in a terrible stadium.

By proeye

July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I think we need to make one thing clear: We wouldn’t be saying Tex sucks or he was a bad acquisition if the Braves were winning the division right now. It’s all relative.

You know, this season is just exasperating. It’s truly unbelievable. I’ve never seen so many injuries to so many players. Anyway, if we acquire some decent talent now and in the off season, we could be prepared to have a pretty good 2009 if…

1) We don’t write off any players like Ron Mahay. I still can’t figure this one out. $4 mil is nothing for a guy of his talent. YOU KEEP THE TALENT-NOT LET THEM WALK AWAY 2) We have any luck at all. It seems there has been ZERO luck this year. I mean ZERO. 3) With that improved luck, that means only half as many injuries. I just can’t imagine one team sustaining this many injuries two years in a row. I suppose it’s possible but come on… At least Gonzalez will be available, and Moylan will be coming back mid-season. We will have a second year from Jurrjens who I think will only get better, Hudson, Campillo, and possibly Glavine as the 4th starter, we’ll be fine for starters.

If this is going to be a lost season, then can Soriano get surgery now or figure out what the heck is wrong with this guy? We really don’t have anything to lose right now. Put him under the knife… Just figure out where to place the scalpel…

And please, pretty please, bring up those great OF’ers we’ve heard so much about. Who the heck is this Josh Anderson? ;-) He comes up, has 22 ABs then gets sent back to AAA. What’s with that?? Jason Perry gets 17 ABs and where is he?? And what about Brandon Jones? Play him! Why not? Trade Francoeur and let one of these guys take his place!

COME ON! You’ve got 2 months left, start developing these guys!!!!

By Chippendale Dancer

July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

DHD Get us some young studs in here and let�s see what will happen.

I’d LOVE to see what would happen with YOU and some young studs.

Can I bring my polaroid, girlfiend?

OOH, this blog is simply loaded with stud-lovers.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Ya know, N8, I was thinking that too … Mike Hampton might actually get an audition with this team next year.

Before the injury news, you’d have to think the rotation looked pretty solid for ‘09

Hudson Jurrjens Campillo JoJo Morton? James? Smoltz? Hanson?

If Dr. Andrews says Hudson is out all of ‘09, the calculus changes.

Wren may have to hope he has another Renteria-like trade up his sleeve and swaps a veteran position player for a young-ish pitcher. I don’t see the Braves bidding on a FA, unless it’s someone like a Lowe. If they’re not willing to commit a huge % of the payroll to Tex, they’d never do the same to a pitcher.

On the bright side, the Fightin Fish is about to beat the Muts.

By kirknga

July 28, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Jeff321

It’s just you.

No way Tavares is better than Boyer. It’s not Boyer’s fault he can’t pitch every freaking day.

By NCStateBravesFan

July 28, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Eat me Tarheel boy.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

DHD,

Agreed, Marlins doing tons more with much lower payroll. Couldn’t hurt, and might actually work!

By JJMB

July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio, yeah it’s dangerous and complex, no doubt about it. But… as long as there’s big money involved…there will be a market, and it will be used.

Suppose a gene is discovered that would cause super fast ligament repair?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah and Maine left the Mets game in the 5th with a stiff shoulder.

The Fish may win this thing yet.

By keylargo

July 28, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

woogidy

they had the Hospital all planned - plans drawn, permits pulled, contractors hired, equipment ordered, hundreds of staff members hired, specialist from around the country coming in, but they decided that a better use for the money was to hire a first baseman for 8 years.

By Jake

July 28, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

Well I think the phrase it just wasn’t our year goes perfect for this team. Every time we had a little something going good someone got hurt. I love the Braves. If we trade Tex for something stupid when just him walking means we get picks that will just be the icing on the cake. Its sad that the NL East has come to this. I mean the Phillies and the Mets on top, its sad. I guess I can pull for the Marlins. There the team were most like these days. Low pay roll and everything. They are actually a good

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