Braves

By SpensBross

July 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

We’re all familiar with Bill Buckner’s error in game 6 of the 1986 WS.

Some of us will also be familiar with Merkyl’s Boner….forgetting to touch second on a single that would have cemented a world series spot for the Cubs (it was then a forceout).

We’ve seen Canseco bounce a ball off of his head into the outfield stands.

As baseball fans we’ve seen it all, but ladies and gentlemen, history was made this very night.

The night of July 22, 2008 occurred the single worst AB in major league history.

That’s right! There must be millions of AB in the history of the Majors…but tonight, we have witnessed history!

Created by the one…

The only….

The beard……!!!!!

JEFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ‘FRENCHY’ FRANCOEUR!!!!!

Yes, of course, I’m talking about the bases loaded, no out, AB in the 4th inning tonight. Four pitches at eye level (and the last one, I swear, was even higher), so predictable, so terrible, and yet so funny.

I gotta tell you all, I turned to my dad and said ‘You know, earlier in the season, he’d just ground out to SS, but at least we’d score a run. He’ll strike out, I bet you’.

And he did.

Our homegrown boy!

I must laugh at the FO for their Francoeur move. Send Francoeur down for three games…he’ll work it out. He didn’t work anything out…except a hissy fit.

So here’s the thing….when it’s time to resign Francoeur…we don’t. We just don’t.

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

There’s no gunfire in that famous scene from Goodfellas, DOB.

Tommy’s just busting Henry’s balls in the restaurant. Here’s the clip I’m talking about…

The famous Funny Guy scene

By big chief, no fart

July 23, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

I’m all for a good fart joke; but, it needs to be one that sounds serious, not “guy walks into a bar” joke, or “indian chief walks into a drug store”, type joke that tips itself off at the intro.

Something that can be played off as dead serious, until the punch line.

By SLM

July 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the Townes Van Zandt tune—-I’ll be looking that up…Regarding the Francoeur at-bat, it is completely mind-boggling that after three straight walks he wouldn’t take even one pitch! It’s bad baseball at any level.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with fart jokes?

By i cant take it anymore

July 23, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Was the at-bat by Franker really THAT bad? Like andruw jones bad? nice blog, david.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

The braves shouldn’t emphasize that these games are important.

Obviously this team isn’t good under pressure, so putting pressure on them to perform isn’t going to go well.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Oh, I get it.

This blog needs more flatulence jokes.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Great 2:03 post today on the last blog.

Looks like you came to play today. Watch out.

By f.n. hale

July 23, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, He didn’t really say “truncated” did he? Big word for a relief pitcher. Does anyone here agree with me that the trade for Tex could go down as one of the worst ever? Not saying it will for sure, but if he walks at the end of the year and all we end up with are 3 picks for all those guys, and assuming some or all those guys live up to their projections it could be sooooo one sided. I realize that GM’s, as we all do, make educated guesses, and the better educated you are the better guesses you make, and JS has guessed right more often than he has wrong, but still…. I still think JS was as good as they come, though I do think he out punted his coverage a bit on this one, we won’t know for a few years.

By Nick

July 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, I love Cox, and have a lot of faith in Wren, but what would you say about their handling of Francouer?

Did they bring him back from Mississippi too early? Should they send him back twice in one season (what would that do to his confidence)? Has bobby hurt the team and his confidence by batting him 5/6 in all these high pressure, bases loaded situations?

If this situation doesn’t improve I’m wondering if a nasty divorce is in the near future, seeing as Francouer was extremely bitter about being sent down the first time.

By Original Jon

July 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop I dont think he was being literal with the whole Gunfire thing. It was a figure of speech.

By Novice Ned

July 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but after seeing almost daily updates on how badly Andruw was playing the past year or 2, why can’t we “pile on” Frenchy?

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is full of beans!

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Great song, by the way.

Anybody who’s ever been depressed, hit the bottle a few too many times, or found themselves brought a few rungs too low by life can identify with Townes Van Zandt. I’d still kick Steve Earle off Dylan’s table, though.

Ha.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Anyway, hey, it’s gonna be an interesting NL East race, without or without the Braves. DOB

Did you mean to type it that way….cuz it was one helluva line…

Pretty funny stuff DOB.

By THWG

July 23, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

In some sort of lucky stroke for me, the power went out at my house (metro Atlanta) soon before the bases loaded debacle. So while I was spared the suffering of having to actually watch the inevitable, just listening to Frenchy whiff over and over with ducks on the pond I could tell it was probably not an at-bat that I (nor any young children) should have to witness.

By Chuck

July 23, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Two people are the reason for the team’s bad play this year: Tex and Frenchy. It doesn’t matter if Tex hits .400 the rest of the year, he stunk and got us 7 games out. Frenchy’s “unconventional” approach to hitting, which involves swinging at everything and relying on God-given talent to put it in play for a hit, left when he put on the extra weight - or when he started the Andruw ‘swing-so-hard-you-dip-your-head’ swing, take your pick. It’s a shame that with all the pitching injuries and patch-ups that have worked, those two guys have killed that great effort. Not that Kelly Johnson is playing well either, or that Escobar hasn’t given away his share of games with rookie mistakes. Even McCann is looking choke-prone these days. The disease is catching. I really hope they come out of it soon, soon, soon! But I’m afraid they just don’t have the healthy bats and power to do it.

By Nick

July 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, are you thinking of the scene where he shoots the kid for talking back to him in front of the Fellas? Chop Chop is right, Pesci is pretending to get all p** off and then starts laughing about it.

By DHD

July 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Will Wren panic? That will be the question. We’ll know the answer on August 1.

One concept I would consider would be to be a buyer AND a seller. Everybody asks which one we’ll be. We could do both. for example, sell Tex and get some young players AND pick up Jason Bay for some young players.

We need to prepare for next year. Then, sign Furcal in the off season. Lineup:

Furcal, ss….Escobar, 3b….Chipper, 1b….Bay, lf…..McCann, c…..Francoeur, rf…..Johnson, 2b….Blanco/Schafer, cf

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

What about the batting drill where you write numbers on the baseball & the hitter has to recognize the number?

Even better, what about the drill where the BP pitcher farts on the ball and the hitter has to smell it?

It might help Frenchy compensate for loss of vision. Use the force, son!

By Cecil34

July 23, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

After last night, there can be no question in anybody’s mind now - Jeff needs to go to Mississippi for the rest of the year.

If in fact he excels there, then see if he can excel at Richmond.

Since this season is 99.9 % in the tank, then there is no reason to let Jeff continue to flounder and be ridiculed up on the big club.

He can finish out down there at one of those two clubs this year, and then be invited to spring training to win his position back.

This is of course assuming he gets back on track down there. Remember, he did not spend that much time in the minors to begin with.

Frankly, there is nothing for him to accomplish on the big club this year, except take more of a PR black eye.

No doubt he made some statements the last demotion that he should have bit his tongue on, but remember, this is a man who has not had to deal with any real adversity in his ball-playing life.

He was always expected to be here. His parents, his friends and his boyhood and high school coaches knew he would be here. And treated him as such. He is a Parkview legend after all.

He has had success at every level, even the majors. But now it has left him surely as that strikeout last night attests to.

Can he get it back?

Heck yes….

It is all in how you handle him.

By i cant take it anymore

July 23, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

f.n. hale…I cant agree with you on the tex trade being the worst ever. I dont think it’s nowehere close to being the worst.

By GT80

July 23, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Anyway, hey, it’s gonna be an interesting NL East race, without or without the Braves.

Was that a freudian slip or just a reality check?

Regarding all the trade talks, if the Braves have so much trouble scoring runs, why do we think getting rid of the 2nd best offensive player, and best power hitter, on the team is going to help. You’ve got to spend some money on payroll to compete in this game, and if the Braves are just going to trade Tex because they don’t want to pay him, then why should fans pay to go watch them play.

DOB, do you think Tex just doesn’t want to resign with the Braves? If so, I guess the trade needs to happen.

But if he wants to resign, they need to do it, even if it is for 5 yrs @ $20M. This team needs some bats, and major league bats. Right now there are 3 in the lineup.

And Jeff’s AB, the worst AB ever? That’s harse…but probably true.

By brent a.

July 23, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear that Ohman is supportive of Cox.

Whenever a guy makes comments like that, it is interesting to pay attention to him; but, it’s also interesting to note who the comments are coming from.

Ohman hasn’t been around here for years. The things that people criticize Cox for are not necessarily things that Will Ohman would have seen consistently.

People get mad at Cox because of the way he coaches offense (and handles the bullpen). They get sick of seeing Yunel Escobar pop-out on the first pitch after a walk, instead of letting Gregor Blanco try and steal on a catcher who has not thrown anyone out all season.

They get frustrated at the team’s inability to hit in key situations, like last night, when they loaded the bases with nobody out, and failed to score. (Strangely reminiscent of last season’s game on 9/6 against the Mets, when the Braves loaded the bases with no one out in the 6th, and also failed to score - an inning that basically defined our entire season).

Yes, there are injuries, and yes they count.

But last night, in the 6th inning, Jeff Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, and Mark Kotsay were the ones who cost us, and they are not replacements for injured players. They are everyday guys whom the Braves expected to get good production from this season.

Many of us have been watching this stuff for years, and we are tired of the approach.

I’m not saying that Cox isn’t any good, or that he never was any good - he was GREAT! - but, the approach that is being taken does not seem to be effective with this bunch, and hasn’t for a few years.

Yes, it’s effective with Chipper and Smoltz, and seemingly McCann. It also was with Andruw Jones (at least Andruw said he loved Cox), even though AJ seemed to tune him out a bit in his last year and a half in Atlanta.

Plus, Ohman is a middle reliever. Now, I’ll admit that I’ve never spent time with a major league team; but I do wonder just how much attention a guy like Will Ohman pays to the offensive approach of guys like Jeff Francoeur and Kelly Johnson? It may be a ton, and I am happy to be mistaken about that. But even so, he’s only been here since the spring, and it may well be fair to say that Bobby’s great reputation and over-all approach to managing a club, may overshadow any negative feelings a guy like Ohman might develop toward Cox, based upon team performance.

Plus, Ohman has been given a nice opportunity, and has pitched well. He seems to be a solid professional, and based upon his strong performance, I’m sure that he and Bobby have had a great realationship this season.

Yes, we have had injuries.

But, injuries did not get us Corky Miller as back up catcher.

Where injuries did bite us is the time we spent without Chipper, the time we spent without Kotsay, and the time we spent without Escobar. Prado’s injury also hurt.

And yes, I can see how that has cost us some offensive production.

Losing Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, and Soriano also hurt, but over-all, the pitching has been good.

But, from my very limited perspective, injuries to the team have not led to our offense nearly being no-hit in three of its last 11 games.

There seems to be an approach issue with this team. Yes, injuries affect that, but it’s not solely injuries.

I like Bobby, I want him to succeed; but, you can’t just sit back and ignore our recent post-season failures and struggles of the last 3 seasons, and say that it is strictly on the players.

If it is on the players, and only on the players, then there would be no need for managers, bench coaches, etc. There is a reason why those guys get paid as handsomely as they do, and it isn’t just so they can be fired when things go badly for a team.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

What will the arbitrator give Frenchy next year? We know the braves won’t sign him since Frenchy wants too much and the Braves now want to see how he’ll do in ‘09.

So, how much will the arbitrator give him? He’s had 2 seasons of 100+ RBI, 1 season 1 HR shy of 30, and 1 season 1 HR shy of 20. But, he could finish this year in AJ territory with a .220 BA, with less HR (14) and less RBI (75).

Will he get awarded very good pay $10 million discounted by 33.3% for the awful year (6.67 million for ‘09)? What do you all think he’s worth next year?

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Tex wasn’t the worst trade ever. Not by a long shot. So we gave up Saltalamaccia(?) who would be playing every 4th game and doing only slightly better than corky. You don’t expect him to beat out Mccann do you? It was a good move and gave us a chance to win it all. We also go Ring and Dotel and will get 2 more minor leaugers after the season. It didn’t work out because of injuries, bad luck, whatever but still I liked the move then and I’m glad we got the balls to pull the plug on big time trades

By tvsportscaster

July 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

f.n. hale in regards to your 2:57 post saying that perhaps the Tex trade was the worst the Braves ever made, I give you the Brett Butler, Rick Behenna, Brook Jacoby trade for Len Barker, and the J.D. Drew for Adam Wainwright’s trade as ranking worse. Besides the guys traded for Tex had no place to play in Atlanta. Salty was blocked by McCann and Andrus was blocked by both Escobar, Lillibridge and Hicks. So no, the Texieria trade was not the worst the Braves have ever made.

By cabravesfan

July 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

For those of you who are still advocating signing Rafael Furcal for next year (DHD not meant as a shot at you- there have been plenty of others who have suggested it as well)- He is dealing with a pretty serious back injury and is currently on the 60 day DL- do we really want to risk signing another guy with a questionable back? Besides- we have a pretty good SS already…

By etownbrave

July 23, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Listening to Pete VanWieren on the radio, I told my son JF would swing at each pitch as it went higher and higher. And of course, he did. You just knew that was what the pitcher was going to throw and JF just could not stop himself from swinging. Again, bases loaded and no score! A loss tonight and one would guess that the mood in the clubhouse will be quiet and somber. Trades would have to bring immediate returns and if not, then hold fast and wait for the draft picks next year. I have not waved the white flag and will always have hope as long as the Braves are on the field.

By brent a.

July 23, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Tex trade is not the worst ever.

We got a good player, who has provided good (and at times, great) offensive production.

Lots of teams get good players and then lose.

Bad trades are when you give up some young stud who becomes an absoulute stude for a stop-gap solution, or a guy who gets vertigo, or something.

Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac was a bad trade.

Unless one of the studs we sent to Texas becomes an absolute superstar, this trade was actually a pretty fair trade. The only real problem, as I saw it, was the way we ended up sticking in an extra player at the end due to some injury concerns.

Plus, we also got Mahay. Who was pretty good, IIRC. (Which, to be honest, I don’t, because the end of last season was so depressing).

By Tardy71

July 23, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Despite how you want to sugar coat it this team isnt going anywhere with the current lineup! It has been abundantly clear that trades have to be made to shake things up at the very least!

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

*It’s all Scatalogical *

Now that’s the type of practice I was talking about! Get to work JF!

By Tardy71

July 23, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Despite how one may want to sugar coat it this team isnt going anywhere with the current lineup! It has been abundantly clear that trades have to be made to shake things up at the very least! Trading Tex for some young pitching and some outfield help would be a big step in that direction. The key is to get players that are major leaguers or almost at that level!

By braves70

July 23, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks for asking Ohman about Booby Cox. I am not sure we got a straight answer from Ohman. It certainly is not an answer with which I agree. I think Booby Cox is a big reason this season has been a disaster.

Ohman probably learned his lesson from Chicago. He said some things which probably caused him to get traded to the Braves to start with.

From the December 4, 2007 Chicago Daily Herald: The 30-year-old Ohman, a 1998 draft choice of the Cubs, got himself into the organization’s bad graces in August, when he was optioned to Class AAA Iowa. On his way out, he told reporters his left shoulder had been “barking.”

Later that week, Ohman went on WSCR radio in Chicago and said the medical staff and trainers knew about the injury, but that manager Lou Piniella was not told.

Everybody from the front office to the trainers to Ohman’s teammates felt Ohman had done the trainers an injustice. Ohman was part of the Cubs’ September call-ups, but he maintained a quiet presence in the clubhouse the rest of the season.

By brent a.

July 23, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

timthebrave

Ring and Dotel were acquired in two separate deals.

Ring from San Diego (for who knows what?) and Dotel from Kansas City for Kyle Davies.

By bgvt

July 23, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Chuck —

I don’t buy your “two people to blame story” at all. Sure JF is a huge part of the problem but what exactly did you expect from Tex?

He is on pace to drive in about 118 runs, hit 31 HR, his average is .278, OBP is .383, SLG is .504, and OPS is .887.

Let’s compare that to his numbers in previous years. His career AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS is .285/.372/.535/.907. Much of that was in a better hitters’ park than the Ted. The 31 HR’s and 119 RBI’s are pretty typical of Tex — maybe ever so slightly below an average year for him. He certainly isn’t more than a two-week hot streak from being better than his career numbers.

If I wanted to point fingers, here is my list:

1. JF

2. very little power from LF (Diaz / Blanco) or CF (Kotsay / Blanco)

3. Injured starting pitching leading to the inconsistencies of Jo-Jo and Morton. Together, those two have started 22 games (more than 20% of the team’s total) and have an ERA of 5.28. Not good.

4. Ever shifting roles in the bullpen. They’ve done an admirable job but one wonders how much better the pen could have been with Moylan and Soriano having years anywhere close to last year.

5. KJ and Yunel taking steps backwards instead of a big step forwards in terms of offense.

6. Tex having a slightly subpar year.

The positives (relative to expectations):

1. JJJ stepping up bigtime.

2. Campillo surprising everyone as a starter.

3. Chipper having a great year.

4. McCann continuing to develop into a star.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox knows that it is far tougher to make up ground in August/September than in May/June.

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Chuck—

“Choke prone”?

With RISP, McCann is hitting .295 (28-95).

With the bases loaded, he’s hitting .455 (5-11).

His AVG with runners on base is .310 (48-155).

Choke prone?

By KT

July 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

How much money do you have to make playing a sport before you are consumed by losses? On one hand, I get Ohman’s point - dont let the losses get to your head. Still, if you are paid ridiculous amounts of money to play baseball, you should expect to win and be angry when you dont. Watching movies in the club house after getting one hit is unacceptable. They should have been taking mandatory batting practice. For that, I do hold Cox and Pendleton accountable. They cant physically go out and win the games but they can ight a fire under these guys and make sure they understand that losing is not what is expected when you wear a Braves uniform. That is what the problem is right now. The one time they take a stand on Francouer, he complains to the press and they bring him back after three games. There are too many games in a season and players start to get complacent about a loss here and there. Next thing you know, youre in fourth place, seven games back. The only thing the Braves should be watching on TV is that commercial for the hitting DVD that Fred McGriff used to hawk…

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

BTW:

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

And the Braves are like a clown sometimes…I mean, they cann be scary!

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Ohman was part of the Cubs’ September call-ups, but he maintained a quiet presence in the clubhouse the rest of the season.

Silent but deadly.

By Token Gringo

July 23, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

I’m kinda tired of Frenchy bashing. It sure as heck isn’t helping him.

By joe

July 23, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Even if they were still in the race people would only be paying attention for about one more month at the most. That is when College Football starts.

By N8

July 23, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

GT80

Your comment about Tex is true. I don’t think he’s “worth” over 20-25 million per year. But is ANYBODY really “worth” that much money.

Maybe it’s worth it to the Braves to break the bank on him, with all the other dollars coming off the book (Glavine - maybe Smoltz), and still spend the rest of the money wisely.

I’ve always been a guy that would rather have 3 guys making around 8-10 million dollars and being consistent (even if that means consistently average or slightly better than average), rather than having one guy making 20 million and 2 other guys making league minimum.

Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle and the “cheap” (usually young) guys have monster years and it all works out.

I’m with you. If they CAN sign Tex to a reasonable contract (without a full no-trade clause), and leave enough wiggle room to move him before he becomes a 10/5 guy. Then by all means do it.

While he is not capable of carrying his teams, he’s a nice part of any team. That’s for sure.

But if LM doesn’t raise payroll, I surely don’t want one guy taking up 20 percent of the payroll. That’s a recipe for disaster. If there is a sense by Wren that there is ZERO chance he’ll re-sign at a rate they can live with, and they can get more for him in a trade than they feel the draft picks will bring…..move him.

DOB

I’m with you on Ohman. It would be nice to keep him, and I’m a guy that wasn’t sold on him right away. He’s been outstanding for a couple of months now.

But there’s a growing sense in me that thinks he might actually bring more than Tex will. Because a team like the Yankees can trade for him, and then be assured to outbid anybody for a middle reliever. 3 million per year (or so) for a guy like Ohman, for a 2 or 3 year contract is NOTHING to the Yankees, but a lot of money for a team like the Braves to commit to a guy that’s NOT gonna be closing. Especially with Soriano and Gonzo on the roster next year.

But I tell you what. I think the team might be better served to invest 13 million into a trio of reliable end of the game relievers (Ohman, Gonzo and Soriano), than to invest 25 million into Tex. More “bang” for the buck, IMO.

As for his comments on Cox. As I’ve always said, I have no problem NOT blaming Cox for the failures of the past 2-3 seasons. Just so long as the people that find that notion ridiculous (players, media and other bloggers), aren’t insisting that Cox is the ONE REASON that the teams of the 90’s were as successful as they were.

It can’t go both ways. If he’s not responsible for failure of guys struggling, he’s not responsible for the success of good players. The truth lies somewhere in between.

I’ve always given credit for Cox keeping the guys level-headed, but have often blamed that “business like” mood of the clubhouse for some of the flat performances in the post-seasons.

It seems that the guys with the fire or guys that wear their emotions on their sleeves (Smoltz, Chipper, Avery, TP, Justice) have been the guys that succeed in the pressure of October. While the business guys like Glavine, Maddux, McGriff rule the regular season, and fail to “step up” in October.

That being said Grissom (a pretty mild mannered dude) and Glavine are pretty much responsible for the one WS title in 1995. So take it for what it’s worth.

By R.Hobbs

July 23, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, So true regarding Francoeur’s AB last night. I know hitting MLB pitching is one of the hardest things to do in sports, but the plate discipline is just horrendous. This feels too much like watching Andruw decline the last few years at the plate. It reminds me of a video game pitching sequence — you know the slider down and away is coming for strike one swinging, strike two is usually fast ball looking, and then it’s climb the ladder for strike three or keep throwing the slider in the dirt. Painful to watch.

On the Townes tune…as someone who loves a ton of Townes influenced music and the whole Americana/roots rock genre in general (Earle, Lucinda, Uncle Tupleo, Whiskeytown, etc), what’s a good start in listening to Van Zandt himself?

Thanks as always for the great taste and great writing.

By Brent A(ss) Clown

July 23, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

I just HAD to get Kobe in the blog today! I LOVE Kobe!

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

McCann…Choke prone

You can’t eat a ton of fried food and then squat all afternoon without having an occasional “accident”.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 23, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Great stuff DOB!

Some other lyrics come to mind, lyrics from The Drive-By Truckers….

“So I’ll meet you at the bottom if there really is one They always told me when you hit it you’ll know it But I’ve been falling so long it’s like gravity’s gone and I’m just floating.”

I love Bobby Cox and I am sure he is still the players favorite…BUT…I have to question his ability when he continued to bat Andruw in the 5 hole and this year when he continues to bat Frenchy 5 or 6 and not 8th, where he is less likely to come up with the bases loaded.

You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken spit, I understand that, but I also know that the chicken salad goes bad if you leave it uncovered too long.

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Still not a bad trade. Most of those guys were not going to play for the Braves ever…Why are people blaming Bobby Cox for last night? You know he was suspended and not there?…I guess it was still his fault. Give me a break

By THB

July 23, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Some more thoughts on Manny:

We have money coming off the books this season. Instead of signing Tex for 20+ million for 8 years, we could sign Manny for 1-2 years while we have the money at most likely a little less money. Manny would drive in all the guys we have on base and hit for power and average. Then our goal this offseason is to find a 1B. I have an idea on that, too. The Rangers have been linked to Mike Gonzalez. Maybe Gonzo for Chris Davis and a minor leaguer? Or get a 1B back for Tex if we trade him…

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Tex may not be clutch, but he can hit a ball farther than anyone else on the team.

By Shaun

July 23, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

KT, I think Ohman’s point is like the cliche, “you have to take it one game at a time.”

It would do more harm than good for the Braves to try to go out and gain 7 games in the standings in one game, so to speak. I think that’s his point.

By DHD

July 23, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Maybe correct concerning Furcal. The Braves would make sure he’s OK before signing him. Maybe there are others we could sign. I’m not totally opposed to moving Chipper to first, leading off Blanco and playing Lillibridge at ss and Escobar at third. That way, we could spend money on pitching since we have Smoltz, Tex, Hampton and Glavine’s salary coming off.

Blanco,cf…Escobar, 3b…Chipper,1b….Bay, lf….McCann,c….Francoeur,rf….Johnson,2b….Lillibridge,ss

If Francouer would wake up, that ouldn’t be a bad lineup. With some pitching and reserve additions, we should be good.

By coach k

July 23, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

SHOCK TIME GET RID OF PENDLETON, SEND FRENCHY TO MISS, SIT KOTSAY AND BRING ME UP 2 KIDS WITH SOME DESIRE TO PLAY WITH BLANCO IN THE OUTFIELD, OH NEED A BACK-UP CATCHER FOR MCCANN NOT THE CLOWN WE GOT.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

This team doesn’t pass the smell test.

By bravegator

July 23, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

timthebrave - It didn’t work out because of injuries, bad luck, whatever but still I liked the move then and I’m glad we got the balls to pull the plug on big time trades

You pull the trigger on big trades

You pull the plug on this season

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

OK, I’m being a meanie here, but I can’t let this one slip.

From the last blog:

To have made myself clear, I should have said reciting stats is for losers. Certainly stats have a place in evaluatingballplayers. But DOB keeps throwing out all those stats about low ERA and team high (compared to other teams)batting average so how do you explain all those losses?? Would you rather have 10 usless hits that make your batting average look good, or 1 clutch hit that drives in a run????? Jack G

The last time I checked, wins and losses are stats.

Have at it, denizens —

By Threadkiller

July 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Are we going to make any deals?? Or are we going to wait till 11:55pm on Jul 31? We’ll wait till the midnight hour, make a trade and it will take the new player almost a week to get here..A lot of teams are doing deals, even the Astros made a trade yesterday!

By RG

July 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

I think Cox deserves a lot of blame because most other managers, expecially ones that are supposed to be as good as he is, would move Francoeur out of that spot, and bat him 8th in the line-up instead of giving him all of those wasted RBI opportunities.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Are those emails in re: Frenchy’s at bat from friends, colleagues (sportswriters), or “baseball people?”

By Lee in S GA

July 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Don’t see any of the Braves players coming right out and blaming Cox for any of this mess. Most players like playing for Cox. If it comes down to actually a player playing for a winning team for a manager he dislikes vs playing for a manager on a losing team he likes - I would dare say what the majority of baseball players would chose.

By Random

July 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

DOB: “I could be covering college football tomorrow. Or metro government. Whatever the AJC higher-ups tell me to cover. Hopefully, they’ll keep me covering ‘ball a long time.”

AJC announces section changes, staffing …

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution will cut its workforce by 8 percent, or about 189 jobs, and eliminate all of its geographically targeted news sections as part of a cost-cutting plan announced Wednesday… . Mellott said the AJC will maintain news bureaus in Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and North Fulton, adding that the daily newspaper’s metro and sports sections will expand to handle coverage from those areas.

The Good News: DOB still has a job.

The Bad News: DOB will now be the Beat Reporter not only for the Atlanta Braves, but also for the Gwinnett Braves, West Georgia Braves, Long Branch Braves, Hightower Chiefs, College Park Warriors, Cross Keys Indians and Creekside Seminoles.

PS: apologies to Chop Chop.

By Shaun

July 23, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t think there is a such thing as “choke prone” or “clutch prone.” A player can hit or he can’t. Every situation is a pressure situation when you’re a major league player.

Again, I challenge anyone to find a player with a sample of say 500 plate appearances in the clutch who was significantly better in clutch situations or significantly worse in clutch situations than he was normally.

Given enough plate appearances, a player’s clutch performance is going to be fairly close to his overall performance.

I brought this up when everyone was talking about Francoeur as a great clutch hitter as if he had an innate ability to hit well in the clutch. But where are those people now?

By The Irish Moose

July 23, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Sometimes teams have to be realistic. I was confident in this team in April. You know what, it was unrealistic. Glavine, and Smoltz were in their 40s, Kotsay had a bad back, Soriano a bad elbow, and Hampton had a bad everything. It is time to go young. Keep Chipper and Hudson (unless the offer is loaded with great prospects) and let Tex go for the draft picks or better prospects now if we cannot afford him. If we can afford him then sign him. Trade Ohman for youth, say goodbye to Glavine, Smolotz, Soriano and Hampton. Spend wisely on the new money we save from the above contracts. Find out if French and Schaefer are the future. Let them play now. I have a bad feeling about Schaefer. I expected him to tear up AA to show people the HGH was over hyped. Right now it looks like it was all HGH.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

f.n. hale: I kid you not, he said “truncated.” He’s quite a literate fella, this Will Ohman….

Any of you ever listen to a comedy CD (or tape, back in the day) in your car, and you’re laughing hysterically, and someone drives by you and looks at you as if you’re certifiable?

Just now I’m driving down the Florida Turnpike toward Dolphin Stadium, laughing uncontrollably at the Patton Oswalt bit about Kentucky Fried Chicken’s failure meal in a sadness bowl, and I got some looks from people. Love it. Dude’s so very funny.

By Jeff R

July 23, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

It’s goofy to blame Cox for the Braves diminishing fortunes. He’s managing like he always has - expect he doesn’t have higher caliber players to manage. Some part any undertaking - including sports - is being in the right place at the right time. For Cox, this season, the music stopped and he doesn’t have a seat.

The team needs to reposition for 2009 and beyond. A good start is moving Super Tex and Ohman. The market is starting to heat up, and will continue to do so right up to deadline. Super Tex and Ohman are worth more with each passing day.

And I just can’t believe that the Braves’ brass is sitting in their offices believing that this club has a genuine shot at post season. Got to believe they have their eyes set already on 2009.

By Lee in S GA

July 23, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

THB

I don’t think the majority of fans in Atlanta or Cox could handle “Manny being Manny”. I could …. don’t get me wrong. The only reason he pulled it off in Beantown so easily was due to 2 W.S. championships.

By D.Ellis

July 23, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

I’ll always love the Braves. Support the braves….root for the Braves.

BUT THIS TEAM SUCKS SOMETHING FIERCE.

This ship is sinking. It;s been sinking for 2 and a half years. It will be fun watching Wren restock the farm system and begin another run. Just like the 90’s!

However I find it highly funny that in Sunday’s sports section Cox called the organization buyers and not sellers????

That could be a start of the problem….no recognition of seeing when things stink and changes are needed….alas which obviously translates to Batting Frenchy in the 5 or 6 hole or even playing him everyday to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the Braves. LIFE LONG FAN…the reload will be fun and the off season moves wil lbe intresting

GO BRAVES!

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

The real Coach K would NEVER type in all caps. Undignified.

By Milton Jeff

July 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Frenchy’s AB in the 4th definetly made me vomit all over the place. KJ & Kotsay was frustrating as well..at least they lasted longer. Ahh what to do, what to do?? I think we’ve already established the Braves need to be sellers..lets start working on ‘09. Keep the young arms and Huddy. Like McDowell..Get rid of TP. Any new approach in hitting i think will help the mindset of these players.

By Shaun

July 23, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

N8, it’s hard to know how much success or failure a manager is responsible for. My guess is not much of either.

But my guess is Cox helps his players succeed a lot more than he causes them to fail, given his reputation and overall track record in every game (not just October).

Regarding McGriff, he hit .303/.385/.532 in the post-season.

Certain types of players just aren’t suited for the post-season. Maddux was never a power pitcher and power pitchers usually are the ones who succeed in the post season. Same with Glavine.

By Steve from OH

July 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

N8, others:

I don’t really think the “moral” question of “is player x worth x amount of dollars?” is really applicable in the modern world of baseball. I will agree with you that no one is “worth” 20 million/year to play baseball (or do anything else, for that matter). However, if you consider that the Braves had a revenue of nearly 200 million dollars last year, it is reasonable to expect players to make a ton of cash, given that the 25 guys on the field are the primary “generators” of the revenue? People don’t pay to see FW make trades or Liberty Media secure marketing deals. They pay to see guys like Tex play ball. So if you think in terms of who should get the extra profits (in this case, a 20 Million salary)-Teixeira or the ownership group, the answer is a no-brainer: Tex, and the rest of the 25-man roster. Of course, some of the revenue pays concession workers’ salaries, front office salaries, etc, but the vast majority is pure profit before you include players’ salaries. So, if you paid everyone the league minimum, where would all of this cash go? Would it not be more justifiable to give it to the guys who brought it in instead of ownership?

DISCLAIMER: I’m not an economist or anything, so if anyone has info that rebukes this argument, I’m all ears.

By N8

July 23, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

“Why are people blaming Bobby Cox for last night? You know he was suspended and not there?…I guess it was still his fault. Give me a break”

Yeah. Because being relegated to the club-house, watching the game on TV, means that NOBODY is allowed to run into the clubhouse and relay instructions.

Besides. Nothing in last nights game really WAS his fault.

In GENERAL, not instructing Jeffrey to take a few pitches falls on the coaching staff. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Cox (or TP or Chino) were to give Frenchy the “take” sign, he’d oblige, wouldn’t he?

The fact that TP and Bobby have not only allowed, but encouraged Jeffrey to remain aggressive at the plate, falls on their shoulders a bit, doesn’t it?

I realize that not every player can follow instructions or teachings of the coaches the same as everybody else. That’s the complexity of being a coach. Knowing how to get the message across and get the most of of each individual human being.

But I’ll believe to the end of his slump, that sending Jeff down for only 3 days was WORSE for him (and the organization), than had they not sent him down at all.

Not only did it NOT help him (you can’t tell me that in 3 days he solved his issues - especially with the pending results upon his return), but now he’s pizzed at the organization for sending him down.

NOTHING good came of that incident, IMO.

By VaBravesfan

July 23, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Worst at bat by a Brave that I can recall: Early 80’s, Bob Horner after 3 straight walks hits a first pitch one-hopper to the pitcher for a double play.

By rlinaug

July 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

i feel sorry for Francouer, cause he really does seems to be a decent fellow and he’s lost. but he’s been awful. still, i blame the coaches. I mean, they can’t get a bunt down, they don’t hit behind the runners, Francouer is not the only brave guilty of swinging at bad pitches. Keep in mind, AJ didn’t learn a thing in 12 years of playing with Cox. I’m convinced, Cox was simply the beneficiary of a great GM with some money.

Thanks for the Townes Van Zandt song. He’s the best song writer ever, I think. Unfortunately he died a virtual unknown. But we know when Brittney gets a haircut. Strange world.

By Joe

July 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

trade Frenchy for 10 bats and a bag of balls!!!! he will never be as good as he was a couple of years ago. For real I would try to make a package of Frenchy and others for Holliday.

By STRETCH

July 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

We all should have seen it coming when Liberty Media took over. Atleast i saw it. Since 06, its been Chipper, Edgar and BMac or Tex being the constants on offense. I mean these guys were solid when healthy. But after these guys, what? A mediocre offense day in and day out.

Look at the surrounding cast last night and the past couple of seasons. Not good. They have been flirting with getting “NO HIT” for the last couple of weeks, and im pretty much expecting them to get tagged with that 0 0 0 at some point this season.

Some of the blame is on Bobby, but, alot of this is on management for the personnel they brought in! These guys are making waaaaaaaaaay too much money to be performing they way they do. How many times are we going to see the bases loaded and “NO” outs and they keep coming up with nothing?!

Bobby should go, and Tex will be gone, Glavine and Hampton…let those old arms go plus Kotsay(love the guy, but he’s damaged goods) and theres plenty money to throw out there at a LF and a 1st baseman.

Can somebody tell me about how much money would be out there if the above happens for next season? The pitchings going to be fine, just gotta get some offensive minded players in a bad way.

People keep saying they Braves can come back, well the way i see it is…they would have to catch 6 teams to get the Wild Card and 3 teams to get the division. Folks, with that anemic lineup, do you all honestly expect to catch anyone???

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

There is a very good, brief breakdown of the MLB free agent compensation process on www.mlbtraderumors.com by Tim Dierkes.

Helps explain (among other things) why Ohman might be considered a Type B free agent and what that means exactly (that we’d get one sandwich draft pick for him).

By knowitall

July 23, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

I agree that Frenchy probably shouldn’t be batting 6th. But on the flip side of that who exactly are you going to bat there? KJ has been almost just as bad as Frenchy lately so whom exactly do you put there?

By GotCurry

July 23, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

I think most people will agree that Francoeur is a talented player. He just happens to be in the slump of all slumps. What I don’t get is why he continues to hit (or not hit) in the #6 spot. I love Bobby, and I’m not one of those people saying he should retire, but he’s given the guy enough chances. It’s very clear where Francoeur belongs in the lineup, at #8. He is killing this team by coming up in bases loaded situations. He needs to switch places with Kotsay in the lineup.

By TennesseePaul

July 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

[People who complain of Bobby] get sick of seeing Yunel Escobar pop-out on the first pitch after a walk, instead of letting Gregor Blanco try and steal on a catcher who has not thrown anyone out all season.
They get frustrated at the team’s inability to hit in key situations,

I didn’t get to see the game last night, so perhaps I’m missing this “call” by Bobby when he coached his offense into a pop up… But just from that description, the line “team’s inability to hit in key situations” seems to go smoothly with “Escobar pop-out… instead of letting … Blanco try and steal”. Sounds like a failed hit and run tactic. A game plan mostly associated with “small ball” which happens to be a persistent criticism of Cox for his supposed lack of use.
Oh well, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Well, I guess in this case it’s more like “Damned if you do, damned if he doesn’t.”
But I could have the whole scenario wrong having not seen it go down any way…

By Brett

July 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

While Jeff’s stats are horrific and he obviously is more than struggling; I have only seen 1 person on this whole blog mention that Kelly promptly struck out next after him (swinging at an eyeballer I believe). I guess we could call that “The 2nd At Bat”

Brings me to my next point (would love DOB’s opinion on this): Giving Jeff’s struggles with the bases loaded and VH having just walked the bases loaded; WHERE IS THE TAKE SIGN UNTIL HE GETS A STRIKE?

I don’t care if Bobby is in the clubhouse suspended or not; my old little league coach would know that. Another example of how the “sit back and let the players play” attitude around here (remember this is in place Feb-Oct.) has hurt us again.

I wish we would quit pinning this season on our 24 YEAR OLD RF who is clearly in a funk he has never dealt with before. His struggle with runners on are HUGE I agree; but he is not the reason we have lost every game.

I am going to lose it if I hear someone else call him a whiner for sticking up for THE WAY THE SITUATION was handled. Imagine going to work and doing a good job EVERYDAY for 2 1/2 years, then struggling, then having your Mngt. tell you in under 5 minutes you’re demoted,bye-Bye.

No warning after so much and too quick of a meeting would have made a lot of people defensive too. To get called back so fast makes you wonder if they ever knew what they were doing anyways.

Time for people to start thinking about all these things we discuss. It is a team game and besides injuries our season can be summed up in one phrase (to unfortunately take from the booth): IF IT’S NOT COMING FROM CHIPPER, McCANN, or TEX; WE’RE NOT GETTING IT AT THE PLATE!

By Ron Roberts

July 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

I think those that pay any attention to my posts here over the years could tell you I’m no Bobby Cox apologist, and that I’ll criticize the guy when it’s due, but you can’t put this team’s 2008 performance on him. There’s not a manager out there who’d get much better, if any better, out of this squad, having to overcome losing an ace starter, a number two/three starter, not having your closer, and your starting “hits-for-high-average” LF for most or all of the season.

Folks, imagine where the Red Sox would be without Beckett and Wakefield all/most of the year, along with J.D Drew and Jonathan Papelbon, and throw in, for good measure, a slumping Manny Ramirez to sorta balance it out. Heck, how about a couple of extended DL stints for Mike Lowell and Big Papi (okay, they already have that, but add the others)… they’d be struggling, mightily.

You put those conditions on any current playoff contender and you’d have a team struggling to reach .500, wouldn’t you? No matter who was managing.

Yeah, sure, there are decisions he’s made writing out lineups or in-game that have had us all scratching our heads; but our starting catcher has to have the occasional day off (especially day games after night games) or he’s worthless in September. And his methods won us 14 consecutive division crowns, a few NL pennants and a World Series. Baseball hasn’t evolved so much that the game’s beyond his mind.

The injuries and the mighty struggle of yet another outfielder we were counting heavily on have taken their toll on this squad. Face it, and cut the ol’ man a break.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

But my guess is Cox helps his players succeed a lot more than he causes them to fail

How true Shaun.

AJ hit .222 last year with 26 HR and 94 RBI.

This year: .163, 2, 11.

Clearly players play better for Cox. Wink.

By Brooklyn Brawler

July 23, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

I love Bobby Cox but, I do agree that his time is up. Ned, Pat Corrales or Fredi are probably the best replacements for Bobby. As much as I like Terry as a person, he needs to go as hitting coach. Bring Boggs, Joyner, or Magadan in as a hitting coach.

I would not mind seeing Chipper at first next year. He’s onlygot a couple of years left and i cringe everytime he plays third despite his great fielding prowess. He just can’t run. Play Chipper at first, Esco at 3b, Omar or Brent at SS, an Prado everydday at 2B because Kelly johnson sux, period. Get a power hitting LF and trade matt Diaz. Play Gregor in CF and Schafer and French fight it out in RF.

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

I’m not ready to pull ANY plugs on the season. If there are any trades that are out their that make this a better team than go for it. Don’t just give up Tex for 2 minor leaguers that will never be better than back ups. I’d rather we just play the season out and see what happens. I guess I don’t have the loser mentality. I WILL still go to Braves games. Turner Field is still FUN…Gotta get their early for the pregame tail gating in the Blue Lot and watch batting practice. This is the team I love…win, lose, lose, lose, or draw. F it…I still believe. Go Braves!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Uh, STRETCH,

Liberty has actually shown a willingness to spend a little money, unlike TW, which nickel-and-dimed the club to death. When payrolls across baseball were escalating, and the Braves had made large, multi-year commitments to several players, TW tightened the purse strings.

Now, spending more is no guarantee of success. You have to spend well. But at least Liberty seems willing to provide some flexibility during the season, which TW wouldn’t do.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

I agree that Frenchy probably shouldn’t be batting 6th. But on the flip side of that who exactly are you going to bat there? KJ has been almost just as bad as Frenchy lately so whom exactly do you put there?

Prado.

By Kashi

July 23, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

It is the line up that I hate most about our Braves team. Why are we penciling Frency in 6th spot? Oh god I am sick of it. I would put Kotsay in 6th and if I really don’t want to hear Frenchy winning then I would put him in 7th. Other wise I would have him in 8th spot. We are in business and its mean WINNING a game. STOP being loyal to players. Braves pay them to play and we pay them to watch their game. Do everyone agree with me batting Kotsay in 6th after McCain and keeping Frenchy in 7th or 8th spot? Last night Mr. Automatic Out spoiled everything that was going in our favor.

By Mike

July 23, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Great post N8

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)

July 23, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Since I missed the first half of last nights game I decided to watch through the fourth inning bases loaded debacle where the Braves left them loaded and didn’t score.

Watching Francoeur bat, it’s painfully obvious to me what is wrong. VandenHurk threw him five fastballs and frenchy was late on all five pitches. Even the one he fouled off. Never mind the fact that most weren’t even strikes.

Why? Because he isn’t picking the ball up out of the pitchers hand. Why? because he can’t see it. Thats right, Francouer can’t see the damn ball.

Mark Bowman clued me in when he used the term: degenerative eye condition to describe what has happened to Francoeur since he was beaned in the face back in 2004.

Think about it folks, Francoeur has gone from a 100 RBI 25 HR Gold Glove Iron man to this, an over matched, underachieving player who has no business being in the major leagues, much less in the lineup everyday. His eye sight has betrayed him and unless it can be corrected, I fear his career may be over.

By dino

July 23, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

to sum up the braves and there evaluation of talent CORKY MILLER IS A PRO BASEBALL PLAYER

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Uh, STRETCH,

Liberty has actually shown a willingness to spend a little money, unlike TW, which nickel-and-dimed the club to death. When payrolls across baseball were escalating, and the Braves had made large, multi-year commitments to several players, TW tightened the purse strings.

Now, spending more is no guarantee of success. You have to spend well. But at least Liberty seems willing to provide some flexibility during the season, which TW wouldn’t do.

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Hell of a post at 3:12, brent a.

Random, I accept apologies even if there’s nothing to apologize for. I’m cool like that.

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

N8

I’m no expert on the Braves payroll but yesterday I spent a amount of time going through the players who I thought would be here next year and pay raises based on what the next higher up made..

EX: guys making 400 G…usually make 410 or 412 G the next year. AGAIN it’s not accurate…and I based it on Gonzo getting 4 million…I took Glavine & Hampton’s money out…and I based it on Ohman,Kotsay, and Diaz not being here…why Diaz because he’s making 1.225 million and is arbitration eligible for the next 2-3 yrs, and 1.5-3 million is too much for a 4th outfielder/backup IMO

Anyway though not completely accurate, my estimate is that even without signing Tex the Braves can not have the 95 million payroll next year.

It would take about 8.116 million to give players not already signed for next year a raise.

Hudson(13), Chipper(10-11 or higher), Mac(3.5) and Soriano(6.1)…will take up 32.6 (based on Chipper making 10 million)

Based on what I did the Braves will have from 28.728 w/ Smoltz and 44.728 w/o Smoltz

If Smoltz or Glavine play w/ 8 million contract the payroll would HAVE to be increased anyway…so it’s not seizable to think it couldn’t raise to 115-118 or more.

If neither play then the payroll could be as low as 98.4-98.9

the payroll numbers are with a 20 million player…but a jump from 12.5 to 20 million is high…so I think wherever he plays his first 2 yrs would be from 17-19.

By geauxbraves2000

July 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Of all the FAs that left the Braves, I think the one that hurt the most was Furcal.

Then again if they’d signed Furcal, they probably wouldn’t have traded for Renteria, and wouldn’t now have JJJ. Furcal leaving still hurt, IMO.

I wouldn’t mind having Furcal back if he’s healthy. Him and E could be a nice 1-2 punch up the middle.

Okay, win tonight and it’s a series win, win every series the rest of the year and you never know what could happen, but let’s start with this one.

Geaux Braves!!

By N8

July 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I agree with you about Bobby. That doesn’t mean as a fan, I’m not open to the idea of having a different “leader” to see where it goes. I’ve always stated that the old saying of “be careful what you wish for” might very much apply to my desire for a change in the manager.

I’m man enough after the fact to say that I was wrong if it turns out I am when Cox leaves if failure follows. But haven’t the past 3 seasons been failures anyhow?

I’m not demanding Cox be fired. He deserves better than that. I’m not claiming that if he is re-signed after next year, that I’m DONE being a Braves fan. I’m not gonna go all “Robert” and throw a party when he’s done. I’m just ready for a change. It’s that simple.

As for McGriff. Similar to Tex. While his post-season “numbers” aren’t that bad, I don’t really remember any BIG hits by the Crime Dog. I remember a LONG HR against Philly (in a loss) in 93.

I do, however, remember big hits from Lemke, Lonnie, Justice, Devereaux, Polonia, and even a big Sac-Fly from Jerry Willard.

That doesn’t mean Fred didn’t come up big. I just don’t remember any moments where he carried us in the post-season like he did in the second half of 93.

Steve from OH

I don’t disagree with anything you stated. My main point when I say “worth” is relative to each team’s budget and how the rest of the roster IS currently constructed. In fact, more importantly is how the rest of the 25 man roster CAN be constructed after giving out top dollar for one guy.

History shows that other than the 2002 Angels (with Vlad), since 1985 NOBODY has won the WS with any one player taking up 16 percent of the payroll. Whatever that said payroll total is.

Tex might be “worth” 35 million for the Yankees (with their seemingly unlimited payroll), just so the Orioles or Red Sox DON’T sign him. Where the Braves might be overspending on him at 18 million if their payroll isn’t gonna go too far above what it currently is (around 105 million).

That was my point of “worth”.

I’m with you. In reality, none of the athletes, entertainers are “worth” any of the dollars they are getting paid. But in the real world of supply and demand, ones worth comes down to what somebody is willing to pay. IE: Supply and Demand. Period.

So if Tex gets 30 million per year, apparently the team that gives him that much money, feels he’s worth it.

By Tomahawk Matt

July 23, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

I’m moving to Montreal to support a real baseball team.

I kidd because I love. Really go Braves!!!

Here’s 10 things that everyone should look forward to when the Braves throw in the towel to rebuild for the future… 1 - far fewer A-holes at the home games (not including games vs. Mets or Cubs) 2 - better chance of getting foul balls 3 - better chance Skip will mention my name and hometown after I catch a foul ball 4 - shorter line for chili jalepeno onion relish superdogs 5 - shorter line for stalls after the chili jalepeno onion relish superdogs 5 - more empty seats to sneak into after buying $4 Upper Reserve seats 6 - better chance of hearing Bobby swear in the dugout 7 - shorter funnel cake line (and why is there only ONE FUNNEL CAKE stand? It took half a game to get my funnel fix with a cold brew last week!) 8 - better chance I’ll be able to heckle someone and they actually hear me 9 - better chance I’ll be able to park my old Pacer in the Lexus parking lot 10 - smaller chance that someone will be killed when the Tomahawk Chopping Cow falls from the Upper Deck

By ncscoots

July 23, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

you should expect to win and be angry when you dont. Watching movies in the club house after getting one hit is unacceptable. They should have been taking mandatory batting practice.

That’s an awful lot of “angry”, since 50+ games are L’s as soon as Opening Day. You put that much energy into being mad, you don’t leave much for actually playing the game.

What should they have done in the clubhouse? Rend their garments? Adorn themselves with sackcloth and ashes? Destroy every locker and water cooler in sight? Go on a murderous rampage?

Fans can do all of those, if they wish (OK, maybe not the last one), because they don’t have to play another game the next day, and the day after, and the day after. Fans need only pick up the remote, get swallowed by the La-Z-Boy, and b!tch some more about “heart”. Not exactly a taxing exercise, physically OR mentally.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Brett -

The point isn’t that Frenchy struck out, it is that he struck out on four pitches immediately following three straight walks. Should he not have taken a pitch or two to see if the guy’s control had recovered? If he had, he would have had a 3-1 count. As it were, he struck out swinging at 3 balls well high and out of the strike zone. By all accounts a horrible at bat and he did not look like a ML ballplayer for those couple minutes. Goto ESPN’s Gameday from last night’s game and look at where the pitches were located, if you’d like.

By R.Hobbs

July 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Hey RedEyedAndBlue, you going to catch Wilco at any of the southeastern shows in the next couple of weeks? I’ll be at Jax and Charleston. I’m assuming you’re a fan.

Also, informative link on the free agent compensation.

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

N8 just like andruw’s bad hitting is all bobby cox’s fault. It’s obvious he has torn the cover off the ball since going to LA. Oh wait….Joe Torre sucks as a manager. So it’s really bobby cox and joe torre’s fault. What a bunch of losers!!!….I mean a bunch of hall of famers….W8(wait)…I really don’t know what I mean….I just need someone to blame and I love b*** and moaning. It couldn’t possibly be the players fault the Braves aren’t winning??? Way to obvious and leaves you too many people to blame. It couldn’t be Francouer’s fault that he can’t lay off a high fastball or a slider in the dirt…NO WAY….couldn’t possibly be that. Don’t bother replying because it will be just more whining and b***….If you want to reply you should say something like “I would prefer them get XYZ as a manager because of ABC”. That might require thought….Nevermind…just b*** and moan it makes me laugh. N8-What are you a Mets fan or something? You sure sound like one

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Yesterday (or was it the day before?), 18 Wheels of Love posted the refrain to The Gambler by Kenny Rogers, as a song that fit the Braves (and it does). Well, he’s another part of the song that would work:

If yer gonna play the game, boy

You gotta learn to play it right!

(Refrain)

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Bat Infante or Escobar sixth. Whoever isn’t sixth should bat second. Prado should be considered for batting second when he’s in the lineup. At Richmond Blanco and Prado batted 1-2 with remarkable results.

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000, Not Furcal because he has been injured too much but I agree we really miss a good lead off man. That would do so much to help win some of these one run losses.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I love Wilco but I wish they would all go back to drinking beer and writing rock songs instead of songs that seem more influenced by pain pills.

By Train Wreck Bystander

July 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

It is amazing how Frenchy lets those high fast ones hyp-mo-tize him. But I was saying last night that at least he didn’t ground into a DP with a force at home. So I guess I just see the glass half-full.

Frenchy needs to be in the 5-spot - in AA for the rest of the year. Let’s rent a bat, since it seems we can set the table time and time again and not clear the dishes.

Admit it - with a hot bat somewhere in the 5-8 spots, you’d like our chances.

By timthebrave

July 23, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Tomahawk Matt, I really like #10…If you start the cutting down of the cow I promise to do a little chopping so that the cow accidently falls on a Mets fan…ha ha jk

By westy12

July 23, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

I can’t think of a worse at-bat than Frenchy’s last night, considering the circumstances: bases loaded, no outs, 3 straight walks.

That may have been the only time in baseball history where any given Little League player would’ve had a better approach, and given a Major League team a better opportunity for success (via walk). And if Frenchy’s not smart enough to realize you take a couple pitches in that situation, then what the hell was the take signal invented for?

I know Frenchy thinks he’s above it all, but this is beyond embarrassing. Cox and Wren need to grow a pair, stop the inmates from running the asylum, and send Frenchy back to the minors where he belongs. And in the name of everything holy, let’s find a minor league hitting instructor who has better advice for him than to “be more aggressive”!

By glove51

July 23, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

DOB: in the same vein as TVZ, have you listened to Ryan Bingham’s record? it’s called Mescalito, and it is good stuff. I believ you would really enjoy - a little TVZ, Guy Clark, mixed in with some Dylan and maybe some Tom Waits for good measure.

Also, how about Elvis Costello’s Momofuku? Really solid IMO. Elvis just keeps on doing what he wants to do and generally they are very good to great records.

By dino

July 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

if the golden boy is in tonights lineup then u know the coaches said nothing to him about his performance last night

By monty

July 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t kow why they sent Lillibridge down instead of Gotay,the young fellow was starting to round into shape. I’d feel more confident with him trying to play right field and send JF down!

By Realist

July 23, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

DOB - We all know Frenchy is a disaster, but what is the franchise going to do up the middle next season? Escobar and Johnson are both proving to be average at best, and if Kotsay walks, you have a big hole in CF. Can’t be a contender with two average (or below average) players up the middle and a .265 guy like Blanco in CF. Just doesn’t happen.

Any chance they move Kelly back to LF, where his defense wasn’t as much of a liability, and try to bring a better hitter in to replace him or Escobar. There’s a lovefest here in Atlanta for Escobar that I don’t really buy in to… the guy is going to finish the season around .270 with virtually no power to speak of. He needs to play like Ozzie Smith in the field to justify that kind of offense.

By TennesseePaul

July 23, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

I brought this up when everyone was talking about Francoeur as a great clutch hitter as if he had an innate ability to hit well in the clutch. But where are those people now?

They’re still here Payne. It’s just that, if a player has an innate ability to hit, does a slump mean there is no such thing as an innate ability to hit? I believe it was you who stressed during AJ’s rut that a player is neither as bad as his worst slump nor as good as his best hot streak. But now apparently a player in his worst slump is proof that a specific skill simply doesn’t exist. I suppose the search for truth continues…

Is there such a thing as clutch hitting? Bill James, senior baseball operations adviser for the Boston Red Sox, now thinks maybe there is. Here is his provocative article “Mr. Clutch,” as it appears in The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2008.
—SI

…Back in the early days of sabermetrics, when dinosaurs roamed the American League Western Division, we made a very fundamental mistake. A friend of mine wrote an article asserting, essentially, that clutch hitters don’t exist.…
—Bill James

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Yeah, good pick-up Hobbs. Hope you’ve seen ‘em before. If not, you’re in for a treat. I’m hoping to see them in Cary, NC. Saw them last Oct. at the Charlottesville Pavillion and they were the tightest i’ve ever seen them. Seen them many times but this was the first show i’d seen since YHF where they really, really gelled and you felt like you were observing greatness. At the time, they were touring for Sky Blue Sky and I intentionally went to the Charlottesville show hoping they would sell the record to me (I hadn’t heard it yet). I went home and bought four copies. Gave three away.

By Mike

July 23, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

RedEyedAndBlue-

I agree, looked absolutely terrible. He should have FOR SURE worked the count but obviously you didn’t see where I mentioned the “take sign” should have been in place (at least until he got a strike, maybe 2). It is a coaches job to pick up on his/other teams players strengths and weaknesses. We knew what was about to happen from home; they should know from the dugout.

By Steve from OH

July 23, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

N8:

Good points. I agree that Tex isn’t worth that great of a proportion of our payroll, but I don’t think he will get anywhere near 30-35 million/year from anyone. If he does, I’ll take the draft picks with a smile on my face. In any case, with a lot of money coming off the books next season, I’d say we have a decent shot to keep him, and I’d do it for 19-21 million/year. We need that bat in our lineup, plain and simple. There aren’t any good FA’s to sign or capable minor leaguers to call up. If his price is 25-30 million, then no way, obviously.

Bravos2249, you kind of lost me with your payroll assessment thing. Are you saying that with no Tex the Braves will be below 95 million next year, or are you saying that we can’t keep payroll below 95 million even w/o Tex? Not questioning your methods (I’m not really up on the arb rules, super two rules, etc.) but I was just confused. Could you re-state some of your conclusions for dummies like me?

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the poop on Stenchy!

By Coulrophobic

July 23, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

This isn’t funny-like-a-clown funny

Not good. Clowns aren’t funny! I hate clowns! Can’t sleep, clowns will eat me! Braves have been playing like clowns, ergo, Braves = clowns!

By TennesseePaul

July 23, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: Not exactly a taxing exercise, physically OR mentally.

Come now scoots. I’ve seen some of the results from that exercise and quite a few of them looked as though it was quite taxing to execute.

By N8

July 23, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

timthebrave

“Don’t bother replying because it will be just more whining and b….If you want to reply you should say something like “I would prefer them get XYZ as a manager because of ABC”. That might require thought….Nevermind…just b and moan it makes me laugh. N8-What are you a Mets fan or something? You sure sound like one”

First of all, maybe your moniker should be timdoesn’treadverywell. Because I don’t blame Bobby for Andruw. I blame JS. Anybody watching (and paying attention to where our payroll was going), could have determined by approach that he was in (and still is) in decline.

Dude should have been moved before he was a 10/5 guy. And before you accuse me of using hindsight, I was saying so leading up to the date he became a 10/5 guy.

Yeah. I’m a Mets fan. Now I know you don’t read.

Why do I have to have another manager in mind to replace Bobby?

You wanna take any wagers on who “turns it around” quicker with their respective teams, Bobby or Torre?

The Dodgers have a better core of players (and a higher budget) than the Braves do.

If you would have read the post, you would have seen that I don’t blame Cox for EVERYTHING wrong with this team. That being said, I have NEVER given him all the credit (and find it silly when people do) for the success of the 90’s.

3 HOF pitchers in the rotation (or staff when Smoltz was in the pen), 1 HOF for over a decade at 3B and PLENTY of All-stars (who were good players for other teams BEFORE playing for Cox), that filled the 25 man roster for that decade. Add in the fact that the scouting and development department throughout the entire organization was the cream of the crop in the 90’s.

Argue with me if you must. But I’m not Robert. I don’t hate Cox, and don’t wish the Braves to fire him. I don’t have a replacement in mind. Maybe TP? Preferably not. Then again, who saw Roger McDowell as Leo’s replacement before his name surfaced? Not me.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman clued me in when he used the term: degenerative eye condition to describe what has happened to Francoeur since he was beaned in the face back in 2004.

It’s obvious what beans will make you do.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Brooklyn Bawler

I like your thinking. But, more needs to happen than that. Prado will be great as an every day 2nd baseman. Plus he’s a right handed batter, so that will help level out the balance of L/R in the lineup.

Keep Escobar at short. He’s a stud. Not 3rd.

Chipper at 1st? Not a bad thought. I’d be for it. You could move Prado to 3rd and keep KJ at 2nd, but expect a lot of errors by Prado initially. But wherever Chipper plays, you’ll need a stead backup.

Outfield. With KJ and Prado in the infield, you’ll need a lot of power in the OF. Need a trade, plain and simple. I like Diaz, but don’t think he’s the answer unless you have a Holiday/Many Ramirez type guy mirroring him in the outfield since Frenchy’s not the answer. If that’s the case, then I like having a speedy left-handed CF. For what it’s worth, I still like Anderson over Blanco. He’s faster, can steal more, probably has a better arm, and i’m still not impressed with Blanco’s bat. If 2 players are equal like I view Blanco and Anderson, I’d rather have the faster one patrolling CF and leading off.

The braves needs to trade for a 1B, 3B, and/or an outfielder. 1B can be compensated with Chipper moving there. But even if KJ makes the switch to the outfield, you’re missing a power bat. KJ would be a good stop gap. You’d allow him 2 more years to develop and prove his value until Gorkys/Heyward/Schaffer etc….were ready.

In the words of Jim Cramer: Sell, sell, sell. Too many pieces are missing. Start with your good bats (McCann, Chipper, Escobar, and yes IMO Prado) and build from there. There’s a lot more good free agent pitchers available than position players this year, so finding a SP won’t be that hard (Hudson, Jair, JoJo, Camp, and a guy like Lowe for next year won’t be too bad especially if Smoltz is able to return and the braves offer a minor league deal to Hampton as well).

By Gosh, By Golly and By Jove

July 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

I brought this up when everyone was talking about Francoeur as a great clutch hitter as if he had an innate ability to hit well in the clutch. But where are those people now?

Shaun, after reminding us once again of your superlative foresight and stat gathering, you asked the wrong question. It should not be where those people are now. Try this:

Question: Where is Francoeur now?

Answer: In the wrong place. Should be in Mississippi or Richmond.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

18 Wheels -

I’ll await your definition of a “rock song.” I presume you mean something like My Morning Jacket’s “Honest Man” or “Highly Suspicious.” Or maybe something you saw on Austin City Limits last Sunday night. Or maybe the entire Led Zeppelin catalog. I doubt you mean Buddy Holly or the King of Rock and Roll, Elvis. Or heaven for bid Elvis Costello or the Pixies.

I mean they were all taking pills and shoulda been drinking beer.

By lewie

July 23, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

wilco is solid…get to see them in a little bit, but agree that the songs have lost any edge that they had before 18wol

JF batting 6th is retarded…helmet wearing retard playing in traffic retarded

time to punt….it has been for a while, but the season is just long enough to make most teams believe that they still have a shot

we don’t…this season is in the sh!tter

By R.Hobbs

July 23, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

This will be show number five for me RedEyedAndBlue, also seen Tweedy solo twice. The last two shows (with the current ensemble) have been really good. Chastain in the driving rain was nice last summer, especially with the “Maybe the sun will shine…” opening line for the night.

Totally agree with the sixth spot in the order. As someone pointed out on here yesterday, it’s no coincidence that JF has the most bases loaded AB’s on the team…he’s coming up after Chipper, Tex, and McCann — the only consistent OPS guys we have!

By Braves_Rick

July 23, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Just a thought about Francouer’s awful at-bat last night… I remember Andruw last season in Boston striking out… was it 4 times? At least 3. Anyway, that last at-bat that day was sheer torture to watch. Even the Red Sox fans seemed to groan (in empathy).

By ncscoots

July 23, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

f.n. hale: I kid you not, he said “truncated.” He’s quite a literate fella, this Will Ohman

What the hey, if Kipling can raise his weary head during a golfer’s interview (re Harrington the other day), Ohman is certainly due a “truncated” or the like, LOL.

After all, he could have edified us with the elegance of something such as “Stick a fork in us”, instead. Not a blog reader, I guess.

By N8

July 23, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

“….but I don’t think he will get anywhere near 30-35 million/year from anyone”

Totally agree, and don’t expect it to get that ridiculous. Was just saying that the teams with open checkbooks for their GM’s COULD go that high if they chose.

After all, the Red Sox paid 50 million just for the right to negotiate with Dice-K.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Maybe Frenchy’s so mad at the braves he K’d yesterday on purpose? The K looked that bad.

Well I guess not. He’s too money hungry for that.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

That’s a good point, Mike, if indeed Cox gives his veterans the “take sign.” I admit to not knowing but he does allow them to wail away at 3-0 (much to my aggravation) on many an occasion.

Of course some would say that Frenchy’s eyesight is so poor so as not to be able to see the third base coach give the take sign. Excuses, excuses. We all agree - the at bat was completely awful. We’ve had many a moment this season when I thought the season was kaput. But that strikeout, right then, was when I finally knew it was over.

By Sparky Anderson

July 23, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Lineup for tonight: 1) KJ 2b 2) Prado ss 3) Norton 1b 4) Frenchy rf 5) corky c 6) kotsay cf 7) Blanco lf 8) Gotay 3b 9) Hudson

By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )

July 23, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

David,

On Baseball Beat on XM this morning, Mark Bowman said the Braves would be open to trading Jeff Francoeur to help him get a fresh start. Have you heard anything like that?

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I’ve read like 20 posts saying Frenchy should be in Mississippi.

No he shouldn’t. He should be in Richmond, as far away from Wellman as possible or he’ll never change his approach.

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

I have been a Braves fan since 1981 and watching a losing team certainly won’t be a shock for me. With that said, I would much rather see A/AA/AAA guys losing than so-called professionals! So, what’s the harm? Try and trade everyone besides Chipper, Jair, McCann, Escobar, Gonzalez, Campillo, Morton. I mean, the time to restock was years ago. Are ya that worried about season ticket holders revolting? Tell me, how do they like watching this crap?

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

The Braves payroll w/o Tex can’t be 95 million unless both Smoltz and Glavine don’t play.

But even then the Braves wouldn’t have that much money to spend on FA.

So basically I meant to say that payroll is going to have to go up so it’s not as if Tex staying or going dampers the payroll.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 23, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

redeyedandblue,

No offense, but I prefer the beer drinking-days Wilco sound (Summerteeth and earlier) to the prescription pill popping influenced-lyrics and sound of the last few albums. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan regardless, I just like the raw stuff compared to Sky Blue Sky.

By Craig

July 23, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Reality check for those who think the Braves can pull a comeback like 1993. In ‘93 they played 54-19 ball (.740) after the All-Star break, the third-best second half in major league HISTORY and overcame a 10-game deficit as of July 22. The surge coincided with the July acquisition of Fred McGriff, with the Braves going 51-17 (.750) after McGriff joined the lineup. That is CRAZY! But, even though the Braves were 10 games back before they got McGriff, they still were 53-41 (.563) before they got him. Which means, they weren’t a bad team, they just needed a boost. So old Schuerholz was probably saying to himself…”Yeah, we’re 10 games back, but we are still playing pretty dang good baseball…if we could just replace old worn out cripple Sid Bream with the Crime Dog…we just might can make a run.” But what’s Wren thinking? “Should I trade Tex, or keep him?” He’s not thinking of improving the Braves at all…its either keep things the same, or trade Tex and make it worse. I know the Braves are better than this, but they would almost have to win 70% of their games from here on out to win the division barring a huge meltdown. And in ‘93 they were in 2nd place. Only one team to catch…the Giants. All they had to do in ‘93 was win 11 more games than the Giants in the 2nd half. Say the Braves go on a tear and win 20 of their next 30 games, and say the Mets went 14-18. The Braves would gain 6 games on the Mets and would only be 1 game out, but what if the Phillies during that same stretch went 18-12 and the Marlins went 17-13. They’d still be 5 games back of the Phils, and 3 games back of the Marlins, and still 1 game back of the Mets. Still in 4th place. The problem isn’t just that they are 7 out. They are 6+ out by 3 teams. If Smoltz wasn’t hurt, and if Frenchy wasn’t terrible I’d give them a chance. But, they are…and I just can’t see THESE Braves getting it done without them. Here’s my prediction…and mark it down. The Braves final record will be 81-81 3rd Place, 4 games out of 1st. That’s if they keep Tex. Can you IMAGINE the Braves offense without him? Pitch around Chip and McCann and you shut them down. This team needs a makeover. They need a totally new outfield. I’d trade Kelly Johnson & start Prado too. If you think there’s a chance to re-sign Tex to a fairly reasonable deal, keep him. In my opinion, the problem with the Braves is they keep bringing up and signing the same type of player. Decent hitter, so-so power, decent defense, no speed. Kotsay, K Johnson, Frenchy, Escobar, Diaz. All of them when they are going right may hit you .270-.285, 10-15HR except Frenchy may hit 20, and the 5 of them may combine for 20 stolen bases. They are just mediocre. They aren’t bad…except Frenchy this year…but they just aren’t that good either. They’re just average. That’s why the Braves have been right around .500 the last couple of years. I want some guys like this, and their projected stats this year:

Matt Holliday .340 27HR 93RBI 20SB Hanley Ramirez .301 37HR 82RBI 37SB Ian Kinsler .324 22HR 94RBI 39SB Jose Reyes .297 16HR 74RBI 52SB Ryan Theriot .328 7HR 45RBI 24SB Grady Siezmore .276 38HR 88RBI 37SB Matt Kemp .287 18HR 88RBI 35SB

These are the kind of guys that can beat you in a lot of ways. These guys MAKE things happen. They don’t just sit around and wait for something to happen. 5 of the 7 guys are in the Top 20 in baseball in Runs Scored. That’s what the Braves need: Difference makers. I’m not a Brave hater, but this is just a BORING team to watch this year. They aren’t the Rockies of old, where they weren’t that great, but it was fun to see Larry Walker, Gallaraga, Bichette, and Vinny bomb some. They aren’t the Cardinals of the 80’s when they had Vince Coleman, Ozzie Smith, Lonnie Smith, and Willie McGee to steal 60-100 bases a year. They aren’t the ‘96-‘00 Yankees when you’d see them dominate just about everyone, and become postseason kings. They aren’t even the ‘93-‘99 Braves where you could see maybe the best rotation ever. I like to watch Chipper, McCann & Tex bat…and that’s about it.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I’m convinced Chastain is a great venue no matter the act. Even Lakewood is much improved from the time I was in college in ATL in the mid-90s. I want to check out the new amphitheater in Atlanta the next time I’m down.

There’s definitely more crowd involvement from Tweedy and Co. in the last couple years. He’s a much less angry man than in the past. At the last show he invited a 8 y.o. on stage to dance with him. Would never, ever have seen that during the AM-Summerteeth years.

By brent a.

July 23, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Bryan from KU

Good topic.

After Frenchy’s comments in July, combined with the pressure of being the hometown hero, and at this point, struggling mightily with that pressure, I keep expecting that Francoeur will get traded this off-season.

Perhaps someplace far, far away from Atlanta (Seattle, maybe?), where he can truly get a fresh start.

There is talent there, we’ve seen it, and it hasn’t just disappeared.

Personally, I would be happy for Jeff if he landed elsewhere and flourished. I’d be disappointed that it didn’t work out for him here in Atlanta, but certainly happy to see him achieve the success of which he is capable.

Because he is talented, I also think the right team would give us something reasonable in return for him. Clearly, this season has hurt his trade value; but, a good negotiator may be able to convince a team that he just needs a fresh start.

Come this off-season, someone will need an outfielder, and will no doubt call the Braves to inquire about Francoeur.

Of course, the Braves will also be needing outfielders themselves, this off-season, so it will be interesting to see if they are ready to cut ties with Jeff.

By SCJ102

July 23, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB next time you see Tex, ask him why he’s such a robot.

I swear I’ve never seen anyone care less about their team. He’s probably thinking ‘Atlanta.. who?’

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

monty,

I don’t get the Lillibridge demotion either. I mean Gotay ain’t exactly been ripping the cover off the ball. And the Small Bridge has played some very fine D and shown some progress at the plate.

I suppose the idea is to get him more work at Richmond, not retard his development, etc., but again, it’s almost August, it’s a pennant race, and who would you rather have on the roster: Lilly or Gotay?

By PopeVanIII

July 23, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any sense of how active the Braves will be on the FA market this offseason. It seems to me that they’ll have some money to spend.

Contracts coming off the books (probably) include Smoltz’s, Glavine’s, Hampton’s, Ohman’s, and Teixeira’s.

According to my calculations (accounting for arbitration raises to guys like KJ, Diaz, Gonzalez, and Francoeur, and contractual raises to McCann and Soriano), they could give Teixeira $20 million per season and still be $20 million under their 2008 payroll.

They could add Adam Dunn and Ben Sheets, for example (while keeping Teixeira), and not increase the payroll by more than $10 million.

Now, I realize that would be tying up a lot of money in a few guys, but it seems like the time is right to try to make a FA splash or two (or three). Have you heard anything? Any word on whether payroll is expected to remain constant or perhaps (I’m hoping against hope here) even increase?

Thanks in advance.

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Good stats on Chipper vs tonight opposing pitcher. What are the chances that Cox sits him tonight to rest him?

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Yeah 18 Wheels. Being There was one of those records that changed the way that I heard music. Trust me, I hear ya. Summerteeth was an amazing follow-up, perhaps even a better record. Tweedy was a very messed-up, stressed-out dude then, though (as evidenced in the documentary about the band’s break-up). Post YHF records like Sky Blue Sky, et. als. are more mellow in many respects b/c Tweedy is mellower. Well that and b/c he has a new band.

But had I not heard Being There, Summerteeth or Uncle Tupelo records, I never woulda listened to Built to Spill, Death Cab, My Morning Jacket, or even Townes Van Zandt, Waylon Jennings, etc. So I hear ya. I hear ya.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 23, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies -

Good news (if there is any) is that you are likely to see more of Lilli and the youngsters if we sell than if we don’t. I suspect they’ll give Lil’bridge and some other minor leaguers a few more chances to perform at the big league level at the expense of dropping dead weight like Gotay and Norton.

By LOST BRAVE

July 23, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

DOB,i have been on cox’s back all year and i just want to say that he has not thrown one pitch,nor had one at bat. he is the manager. not a player. BUT HE has to accept part of the blame for not having his team ready to play every day. HE CANNOT HELP ALL OF THE INJURIES TO THE PITCHING STAFF.but as I have said so often age and injuries catch up to even the greatest.THE BRAVES MANAGEMENT IS AT FAULT FOR NOT GIVING COX THE PLAYERS HE NEED’S TO WIN.AT LEAST THE SLUT’S CHOKED LAST NITE,I do think that with some adjustment’s the braves will be back in the playoff’s next year.

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 23, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I right there with ya…AM rocked my world at the end of my college days. I’ll download any TVZ album you or DOB suggest if you go download ‘Back in the 90’s’ by Chapel Hill’s ‘Hobex’. Put it on the ipod and roll your windows down and blast ‘Windows’. Best album you’ve never heard by the best band you might have heard of…maybe.

Deal?

By Dan in NJ

July 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Chuck—

“Choke prone”?

With RISP, McCann is hitting .295 (28-95).

With the bases loaded, he’s hitting .455 (5-11).

His AVG with runners on base is .310 (48-155).

Choke prone?

Lmao..i knew that wouldn’t slip by you McFann. And not respond. Too funny.

As for OHman. Do you really believe he would just start bashing BC? I’m sure he ain’t that dumb.

BC is the one who batted Norton and Frenchy 5th and 6th. So regardless of injuries, you dont bat either of them in them spots. I’d prefer any other hitter that has an AVE. around 275.ish. Even if he doesn’t have “power” because this year, it seems that NObody has power anyway. That IS all BC fault. and over using guys in the pen early in the season(even now). esp. in blowout games. But i’m almost certain that once the season is totally out of reach, then we will see some (common sense) changes that we’ve been talking about for months.

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

N8,

At least the Sox knew they’d make the $50 million back in team merchandise sales due to signing Dice-K.

I don’t know about anybody else here, but I’ve never had a single thought of buying Braves merchandise because of Mark Teixeira. For a team in a city like Atlanta, a player (if he isn’t putting the team on his back) being paid more than $20 million a year better be selling a lot of shirts and tickets. If he isn’t, he’s a drag on the payroll.

By bobby

July 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

Last night was just another chapter in the season of the hitless Braves. Of course anytime a team brings a pitcher up from the minors to face the Braves you know what is going to happen. He didn’t get a maidenhead however. That about 3-4 times in the past couple of weeks where they have almost been no-hit.

By monty

July 23, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Craig:

Great post! Totally agree!

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Brent a.

Good post. I feel the same.

Craig

I’m sure you had some good points in your post, but i’ll never know unless you break that boulder blog up into some paragraphs.

By Braveheart

July 23, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Why can’t they just make up an injury for Frenchy and D.L. him for 2, 3, 4 weeks? The kid is a mess. He belongs in the minors …. but he also needs two or so weeks off before he goes down.

If it was just his hitting, that would be one thing…. but it’s his throwing, fielding and running as well. When there is such a dramatic, inexplicable decline in all of your essential baseball skills, it has to be physical and/or mental. I don’t think it has anything to do with an eye. It’s a knee or an ankle combined with a bruised ego.

He needs to step away for a couple of weeks and get his body and mind refreshed. Then he needs to go down to the minors for the rest of the season. Dude is a mess ……… there’s no helping him bail himself out in the majors.

If Tex gets traded, that will be a concession that all hope is lost. If that is the case, there is no reason whatsoever for Francoeur to be up in the majors for the rest of the season.

If Infante proves himself healthy, I would ship him off as well. I love his game but he is a utility guy. Surely, someone out there needs a utility player and will give up something decent for him a la Ascanio or Betemit for Aybar

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

If the Marlins win tonite, they’ll have won 4 straight series…..

something they haven’t done in 2 years.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Kotsay day off, Blanco’s in CF and Infante in LF.

Bobby Cox had mentioned a couple of days ago giving Kotsay a day off, so I’m not taking it as anything more than that — not an indication that he’s been traded, in other words. Although that could come soon enough.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

“I was jokingly going to ask (manager Fredi Gonzalez) for the scorecard, because I’ve never been part of a one-hitter,” Nelson said. “Unfortunately the box score is going to say I was the one who gave it up. You know what? That’s fine. We won the game.”

Nelson could pick and choose his scorecards if he were part of this team.

By macdwolfpack

July 23, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

At what point does a team that almost gets no-hit by every journeyman or rookie start to put some blame on it’s hitting coach? If he’s not here to improve the hitting then why in the world do you have a hitting coach. I really am getting more and more convinced it’s time for a total change in the leadership of the Atlanta Braves.

When I look at what a former assistant is doing with the Milwaukee Brewers (another small market team) with equal or less talent and money, and I look at what Freddie G is doing in Florida with a small market budget and less big name talent compared to Bobby Cox and what he has done the last two years with Atlanta, you have to wonder if it isn’t time for Bobby and Pendelton to retire and bring in new leadership.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Bryan, yes I think the Braves would be open to trading Francoeur, but it wouldn’t be “to help him get a fresh start.” It’d be because they think they can be better with someone else. They’re not in this to help guys get fresh starts, is what I mean.

Not saying they’ve decided to do that, just saying that if they do it, that’d be the reason — and the only reason.

By THWG

July 23, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

Are we going to see Gonzo go bye-bye? I have been hearing his name quite a bit, and it makes me pretty uneasy, even if FW decides/realizes that we need to be sellers.

By tiger7_88

July 23, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

DOB: in your previous blog, when asking you my “around the watercooler” question, I parenthetically stated “(and where else would anyone get their most accurate information)”, I was sure you would detect my sarcasm, Oh Literate One.

My sarcasm skillz must be failing me in my old age.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

glove51, we’ve recommended and discussed Mescalito for the past year or so. Great album. I’d think he should be coming out with a new one before long, since that one’s been out probably close to two years. I still play it quite a bit, too.

By Kentavo

July 23, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Okay denizens and DOB - serious question.

Will the Braves trade Frenchy - and if so, what could they get in return.

I think they would trade him, despite it being a PR backlash.

I mean he criticized management. That’s usually been a one-way ticket out of town, except for Smoltz’s “homeboy upstairs” comment.

But what could you get for him at this point?

Why not pawn him off on K.C. or Washington, who have all the other Braves rejects?

By Don

July 23, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Gee, let’s give Kotsay a day off, he’s earned it so much. Who gives a darn if he screws his back up? It seems like winning ball games right now should trump any of these chumps taking a day off.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)

July 23, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Will Ohman has his opinion and he is entitled to it. But if you follow the same logic, the players get all the credit or all the blame while the coaches are just window dressing. That does not compute.

It’s real simple. When the talent is present and performs up to expectation, the manager and coaches get all the distinction for winning. The reverse is true when the players don’t get it done. We can’t fire the players which is why the manager is held accountable whether it’s justified or not.

This why Cox gets get honored for winning 2,302 games, 15 division titles, five N.L Championships and one World Series. He is going into the Hall of Fame and deservedly so.

When the team underachieves, whether from injury, bad decision making or both, the manager is the guy who is left standing tall and answering to the man. Cox hasn’t had the same talent or pitching compared to what he had back in the nineties. That isn’t his fault.

What is the fault of Bobby Cox is that he can’t win without dominant players and talent. Give the man an average team and he will lose. Cox is over-rated. He is going into the Hall of Fame on the strength of past achievement. Cox can’t compete anymore because he has been exposed as an average tactician when it comes to managing the intricacies of the nine inning game. His post-season record is proof of that fact.

The study in contrast that is Bobby Cox : 2302-1817 ,561 winning percentage in the regular season.

Cox is 66-66 in the post season with a .500 winning percentage.

Cox won his division fifteen times. He won five league championships and one world series.

Cox has lost his division in twelve different seasons, lost four world series, five league championship series and is 12-14 in all post season series.

Cox as the Braves GM drafted Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko, Mark Wohlers, Steve Avery, Mike Stanton and Kent Mercker. He also traded for John Smoltz.

Cox as the Braves GM also let Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds, Andy Van Slyke, Lenny Dykstra and Howard Johnson get away in the draft and in trade opportunities. He also tried to trade Tom Glavine and David Justice for Mike Greenwell back in 1989. Yea, really, he tried to.

In other words, Cox pizzed away an entire dynasty.

All in all, Cox is living proof that anybody can get into the Hall Of Fame if given the right situation and opportunity..

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

How many times in the last 11 games have the braves been 0 or 1 hit in the first 4-5 innings?

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Once again must win with every incentive to win and with the team’s ace on the mound.

Expect a loss

Interesting state from TV cast last night. Braves score 3 or fewer runs there record is 5 wins & 39 losses.

By A-ville Ranger

July 23, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

You’re a funny guy O’Brien….. you amuse us.

A couple of things on Ohman’s comments.What would you expect him to say about Cox,that he’s the cause of all things bad ?

I think I’ve got an idea of what’s wrong with team chemistry.DOB quoted Ohman as using the way fancy term ”truncated timetable” in the clubhouse, and nobody beat him up ?….. that ain’t right.

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

THWG

Gonzo not on Braves selling List

By Lewis

July 23, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

I’m pretty much over anybody taking up for Frnchy. If anybody else out there did there JOB as bad as he does, they would be canned. His whinning is repulsive. Again, nobody else would get to whine about getting demoted and get another chance after 3 days . Grow up Jeff

By GSU-Lee

July 23, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you really think that the Braves would trade Frenchy? I personally would be hard pressed to see a scenario in the near future where that would happen but I am not the team’s beat writer so…

By Richard in Goose Creek

July 23, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Just took a quick glance at Frenchy’s splits, and for all of those complaining about him hitting (or lack of)in the 6th spot in the lineup, his average (.241) is higher in that spot than any other spot in the batting order…

YIKES!

By John

July 23, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

All of the comments about “why” , “who” and “what if” miss the basic point. The reason this season tanked was the the owner of the club has not been willing to spend the money on fresh, young players of star quality especially for pitching. The idea that Hampton, Glavine, Smoltz or even”four run fourth” Hudson could provide sustained pitching was ridiculous and now we have fill ins that are not yet ready to be competitive. The Braves need to keep Texeria and pay what it takes. Same for Ohman. Once in a while a small budget team can win, but not often. The Braves have been on the cheap for several years now and it has cheated all of us who are the fans that support the team.

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Dan in NJ—

Thanks!

DOB not an indication that he’s been traded, in other words. Although that could come soon enough.

You think they’re gonna trade Z?? Why would they do that?

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Interesting state from TV cast last night. Braves score 3 or fewer runs there record is 5 wins & 39 losses

Careful TNJeff, I said that 2 weeks ago and the response from Shaun and others was that record is standard for most teams when scoring 3 runs or less.

Even though I was trying to point out ways the braves could increase run production beyond 3 lousy runs, it doesn’t bode well on this blog for some reason.

By EB

July 23, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Dave-You’re awesome… The Hold Steady Rules!

By BravesFan79

July 23, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

If the Braves get rid of Hamptons contract, Glavines contract, and Tex’s contract… WHY in the WORLD cant we afford to pay Ohman 3 mill?
Besides well save 4 mill or so trading Tex before the deadline…just use that money!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

McFann,

DOB explained:

*If Kotsay’s back had held up all season, I’d guess they might try to re-sign him given the uncertainty now surrounding CF prospect Jordan Schafer since Schafer’s 50-game HGH suspension and his lackluster play in Double-A since he got back from that suspension.

But Kotsay’s back is a problem, and I can’t see the Braves going into next season with him penciled in as their CF, as much as everyone including manager Bobby Cox loves having the guy in the lineup and in the clubhouse.*

I have no idea what you’d get for him other than a very young prospect who’s a LOOOONG way from the the big leagues.

By TexasBrave

July 23, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

DOB how can Kotsay need a day off with an off day coming up and the Braves having only played 5 games after the All-Star Break. Even Chipper doesn’t need the rest. So either something has to be happening with Kotsay or Bobby is trying to get Infante some work.

With that being said I am dumbfounded by Bobby’s decision to keep playing Jeff after his play last night and in the games after the break. I would much rather Infante take the place of Jeff than Kotsay.

By Kentavo

July 23, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

We saw how long it took Cox to drop A.J. in the order, so he’s not gonna move Frenchy down anytime soon.

Yes, the talent is inferior these days, but Cox does a poor job of utilizing what he has.

He thinks he can plug a guy in anywhere in any situation and succeed, cuz heck, ”`he’s a major leaguer, gotta be here for reason.”

On another note = I was really surprised to see Soriano and Tavarez out there last night. I figured he’d trot out Boyer, Ohman, Gonzalez, even with it 4-O.

By brian

July 23, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

they could easily trade Kotsay and call up Anderson and not be missing very much. I cannot imagine Kotsay would bring much in a trade though.

What could we expect to get for Ohman? He probably would be the second most popular lefty reliever on the trade market behind Fuentes correct?

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

DOB answered with an opinion. It’s his opinion the Braves would be open to the idea.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Thanks for your honest response Dave.

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Bobby’s Cox

I wonder what the Braves’ record was during the 14 glory years in 3 runs or less games?

I expect it was far better and thus they (or Cox) NEVER felt compelled to practice small ball because our pitching was so dominant.

Have the Braves won ANY games this year 1-0 or 2-1?

By Shamus Thacker

July 23, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

I know I joke alot about Frenchy, but I honestly believe he’ll eventually pull out of it. It’s a mental thing at this stage. A couple lucky bloopers here and there could turn the whole thing around. He sustained a high level of play for too long to suddenly have no talent. That’s how I REALLY feel about Fr-Fr-Fr-Stenchy…

Even though he’s still a whinin’ crybaby. Ask Wellman!

By A-ville Ranger

July 23, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

DOB,Iagree Ryan Bingham’s ‘Mescalito is very good.I was thinking it came out about a year back though.

Have you noticed the similarity in the music of the song ‘Sunshine’ on ‘Mescalito’ to Zeppelin’s ‘Kashmir’ ? It’s so close I’d bet it’s intentionally derivative, good song though.

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies—

Thanks. I remember that now. But I hope they don’t trade Z. I like that guy!

By glorydays

July 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

We talk of the Braves chances of getting to the playoffs this year. I don’t think it is going to happen this year or anytime soon. The Braves are a lot closer to being a really bad team then a good one. Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton ( or what’s left of them are likely history). Our young pitching staff has over acheived, other than perhaps JJ they just aren’t that good. Hudson is good but not a great #1 pitcher. Our everyday lineup has McCann and as solid player we can depend on for years to come and that’s it. Everyone else is average at best. I don’t see us competing with the Mets, Phillies, or Marlins (who are getting better) for a looong time.

By jaker

July 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Kotsay has the day off? I had hoped with Infante back Francoeur would be the one with the day off. Any chance of that happening soon?

By N9

July 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

all this trade talk for Ohman. man i kinda like the guy anyway we can resign him. Seems like we are not talking about restocking for 2009.

By Shamus Thacker

July 23, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

The Bravos ain’t paid Hammy a dime in three years, BravesFan79 IF [wish there was a way to make that “IF” neon] he throws a major league pitch this year, they’ll owe him the pro-rated portion of his salary.

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave

Good point - why is Kotsay being benched by Cox? It’s not like he is hitting good either.

Why isn’t Cox benching Chipper since he is literally the only one hitting (& as a bonus try out Corky at 3rd base for his bat strength)?

By BravesFan79

July 23, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Keys to the Playoffs Next season!

1)Get a TRUE #1 starter! Smoltz will be closer the 2nd half of next season so we need a true #1 guy. A Oswalt, or Roy Holliday type.

2)DONT PUSH Smoltz to come back until around June or so next season. IF we get to the playoffs…having a healthy Smoltz makes all the difference!

3)Keep Ohman, and Moylan. Trade Soriano now to a team needing bullpen help.

4)PLEASE let someone else be in control of the roster and bullpen decisions besides Cox.
The HORRIBLE decision to go with woodcrap and orr coming out of last spring training instead of a .350 hitting Escobar cost the Braves the playoffs.

Think about it…when Chipper got hurt…our lineup basicially had 5 automatic outs in it! Andrew, Pitcher, Woodcrap, Orr, Thorman. Otherwise i think we stay around 10 games over .500 at the all star break last season.

This year the TERRIBLE roster move was choosing Corky over Pena. Not ONLY did it make Escobar go into a slump and hurt his feelings towards the Braves (you can tell when a guys heart isnt in it as much)
But Corky is just plain Terrible! No bat, and is average at best on defense. Couldnt of Pena given us just as good defense with ALOT better hitting??
Same goes for Javy Lopez…no way should Corky be the backup on a MLB team over those 2!

Go Braves in 2009.

By gayle

July 23, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

second try

DOB, the honus is on you now. Anybody can write about a winner, but it is the skilled writer who can chronicle the doings of a non-contender and keep his audience engaged.

As for Ohman’s comments about Cox, do you expect a coming $$ free agent to trash his manager? His comments might be genuine, but you need to remember the context.

His comments notwithstanding, it bothers me to see two former Braves’ coaches now managing contending teams in the NL. Imagine if ownership had put the team ahead of loyalty and given either of them their first shot in Atlanta?

As for Frenchy and the infamous at bat, I hadn’t seen such a pi$$ poor performance since Clu Haywood batted against Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughan in “Major League”.

“Forget the curveball Ricky, given him the heater.”

It worked on Clu, it worked on Frenchy.

I never played professional baseball, but even I know that after walking the bases full, you come to the plate and TAKE SOME PITCHES!!!!!!!

Any manager that puts players like that on the field should be sent to the clubhouse and places far beyond that.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

I’m assured that the market for Tex is there if the Braves decide to trade him. We’ll see. But it was stated to me in a convincing tone by someone who should know.

Braves also believe can fill CF internally next season, assuming Kotsay’s not back (that’s not been entirely ruled out, either, Kotsay returning. But seems unlikely to me)….

A-Ville, you’re right — I just looked it up and it came out Oct. 2, 2007. For some reason I thought I’d had it longer that. Guess that just means I’ve played it a ton.

By N9

July 23, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

seems like texas rangers offered two players for gonzo! Were just about to benefit from the laroche trade since gonzo missed out last year. good thing we are keeping him. He brings the fire that a true closer needs to bring.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, Kotsay’s back is a problem, as you might have noticed in the first half. They want to prevent a recurrence of spasms and such if they can, so Cox plans to rest him more than other guys. Also, yes, he wants to play Infante in the outfield for a game.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Glove51, you’re also right about that Costello album. I think it’s his best in quite a while. He can still rock out when he wants to, can’t he?

By jaker

July 23, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

TNJeff, My point wasn’t to say that Kotsay was playing well, but to say that it wouldn’t be a bad thing for Francoeur to sit.
Maybe he could pinch hit late in the game and come with a big 2 out double to send us to an amazing come from behind victory.

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox,

Bad records when scoring three runs or less are the standard in baseball. The difference is that the Braves have scored three runs or fewer in 45% (by my count, the Braves are actually 5-40 in these games) of their 100 games played this year.

Yeah…45% of their games.

That’s a big-time problem. That’s why some people were correctly complaining about the offense months ago while others felt that the numbers proved that the offense was good.

If nearly all teams have terrible records when scoring three runs or less, it’s obvious that a team’s offense has to score enough to keep the percentage of those bad games down. I’m too lazy to check, but I would expect the true playoff-contending teams in this division to have the lowest percentages of games in which they pushed three runs or fewer across.

(Okay, okay. I’m not lazy now…)

The Marlins have played 37 games in which they scored three runs or fewer (9-28).

The Phils have also played 37 such games and have a 6-31 record.

The Mets have played 36 of ‘em and have a 6-30 record.

All four teams have played 100 games, so the Braves have played 8% more three-runs-or-fewer games than the Fish and Phils and 9% more than the Mets. They also have fewer wins in such situations. (In case you’re wondering, the Braves haven’t won a game when they’ve scored three runs or less since a May 24th 3-1 win over the D-Backs.)

Not too good, folks.

TNJeff,

The Braves have won no games by a 2-1 or 1-0 score. They have lost four games by those scores, though.

By Interested Observer

July 23, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Realistically, how many prospects can we expect to get for Tex?

By Dr.

July 23, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

THE BRAVES HAVE BEEN ON A GRADUAL SLIDE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THIS IS THE END RESULT. ANY MANAGER THAT HAD THE TALENT OF BOBBY COX IN THE 1990S WOULD BE DEEMED A GENIUS. TONY LARUSSA WOULD HAVE HAD 5 RINGS WITH SUCH TALENT.

By DP

July 23, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Sorting those bases loaded hitting stats a little bit differently, the trio of Chipper, Texeira and McCann are 13 for 25 and the rest of the team is 16 for 78, a pathetic .205. Given that the .205 crew gets over 3/4 of the bases loaded at bats (wonder why that is?), I respectfully submit that it’s fair to say that the Braves as a team DO suck with the bases loaded.

By Insider

July 23, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

BREAKING: Kotsay traded. Out of lineup because of trade to be announced after tonight’s game’s completion.

By Robin

July 23, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

Scat-o-licious: Anything less than a series win here will equate to a messy shart!

By h_charles

July 23, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Not sure I agree with Ohman.

Bret A. said it best above. It isn’t that Cox is a bad manager — he is just now a square peg in a round hole.

We don’t have the self motivated, self disciplined professionals that thrived under Bobby’s unwavering support.

We have a team full of immature players who lack patience and fundamentals, and never seem to pay a price for these mistakes from the manager. This team needs a kick in the rear. Frenchy should have been pulled after that AB (yes, Cox not behind that one).

This team needs to learn to be patient at the plate, take the ball the other way, and wait for the right pitch. KJ, Esco, Frenchy — all way too aggresive at the plate, and somebody needs to hammer patience into their head, not scream “let’s go Frenchy!” from the dugout.

Combine that approach with Bobby’s unwillingness to play smallball (which is ever increasingly important post steroid in the NL East), and the team has broad scope problems.

On top of that, there are some very key moments this year where one could argue Cox 100% cost us games.
Failing to bring in Ohman after warming him up in Chicago when Edmunds came up — blatant error. Pulling Tex for a pinch runner early this year — should NEVER happen. Pitching the same people every day, running them into the ground, while letting half the pen gather dust — never should happen. The final piece is roster loyalty to scrub players. Woodward last year, Miller this year. We can do better. These guys have no business playing ML baseball, but Cox gets these love affairs and the team suffers. Both are automatic outs — essentially 2 pitchers in the order when they played. can’t win that way. Love Bobby, but either the roster needs massive changing or Cox has to go. One or the other. I’m open to either.

By jbutler

July 23, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Costello played here in CO last night at Red Rocks w/the Police- fantastic show…he can crank it up…terrific combo.

Hope the Braves don’t stink more than the Fish down there in S. FL…

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Runners left on base top of first - I smell another skunk

By keylargo

July 23, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope that is not the offence for the night.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

Thanks for those stats. Incredible stat digging. Props to you.

Count me in on one of those complaining about the offense months ago. In fact, count me in complaining about the offense last year, pre and post Tex. This has been a problem for a while.

Relying on the long ball is not working. More importantly, trying to hit the long ball is not working. The hitters need a new approach. Sadly, it starts with the coaching staff. I posted articles on here about Joe Torre, Mike Scioscia, and everyone’s favorite, the Jose Mota article…about how teams are adapting their managers philosophy.

I really don’t know what else this team can do if it doesn’t go with a new strategy or new management. If you ever wonder why I talk so much about little Martin Prado, Josh Anderson, benching J, changing the batting order, etc… now you know. Barring trade, that’s the only way this team can change things - by switching things around.

Thanks Chop Chop.

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Hudson better be able to go 10 scoreless!

By JC FROM UT

July 23, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

DOB: Is there interest in Kotsay? When healthy the guy has been grerat, but if you can get something, might as well do it. Also, looking to next season, if Detroit declines the option on Edgar Renteria, could he return to Atlanta as the first baseman?

By Robin

July 23, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Insider: Who’d we get in return?

rubs hands briskly

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

hey Insider

Cox seems to have abandoned his booger picking. Has he delegated that to someone else? Maddux is no longer on the team though?

By Kotsay to Wren

July 23, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Frank. I really appreciate the opportunity to play for this class organization. If you really feel like you need more prospects, I will volunteer to go play for a contending team. It will be difficult to adjust to winning and the expectation to be competitive every night, but I’ll do it for you, buddy!

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

JC FROM UT

Intriguing idea!

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Good grief!

I hate to say it, but even CORKY MILLER looks better at the plate!

By keylargo

July 23, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Marlins Announcers word for word re: Francoeur -

Fastballs up, man. He just can’t catch up to them.

From one year ago his average was 63 points higher and 21 more RBI’s.

By Mental Midget Frenchy

July 23, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Well, the mental midget is still swinging at the chin high pitch and Monkey See Monkey Do KJ followed him again with another K, just like last night.

By Steve in VABch

July 23, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Why does Bobby continue to run Frenchy out there? It makes no sense at all. Surely somewhere on the farm there is a guy that can at least put the ball in play now and again and play the outfield.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

TNJeff

Nice reasoning about Bobby and the 90’s braves - that he could rely on the long ball then because of the pitching staff he had.

Never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. I’m sure their record when scoring 3 runs or less in those days was phenomenal (still under .500 I bet, but I mean phenomenal as compared to 5-39). Even if they were 12-32, which was possible in the 90’s, they’d be tied for 1st right now. Incredible.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

back-to-back HR by Philly in NY to tie the game at 2.

Mets must be reeling. At least they’re closer to 1st though.

By N9

July 23, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Good grief!

I hate to say it, but even CORKY MILLER looks better at the plate! Jeff

not really. but jeff does look lost at the monent. guess that 3 day fly in john Smoltz’s plane to miss. didnt do him well.

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

2 down - 8 to go Huddy

By Tony Austin

July 23, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur is about as an automatic out as you can get. If that’s the best this organization has, then the future looks pretty rough.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop (7:04)

Well said.

On my bookshelf are several of Bill James’ Baseball Abstracts and in the 1983 edition (covering the ‘82 season), he analyzed every AL manager at the time.

One category was: is he patient or is he a problem-solver? At the time, James said Cox was one of the most aggressive problem-solvers in the game. If something was broke, he fixed it, pronto. He wouldn’t let a matter fester and wait for a player to work things out.

That was then, this is now?

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

should have pitch hit Glavine to bunt for Escobar - pathetic 1st attempt

By N9

July 23, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

i missed you yunel!

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

the recoil on Escobar’s slinging of his bat has more bat speed than Frenchy’s best cut

By Random

July 23, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Man, Blanco is fast!!!

I think he could have fielded that bunt and thrown himself out!

WTG, Esco*!!

By keylargo

July 23, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Gotta get him in Tex. No help behind you.

By Jake

July 23, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Chipper Jones is like the living book on how to hit. Laid off the high pitches behind in the count, still moved the runners over. Hope Frenchy was watchin.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

huddy with a single, Blanco with a bunt single. Double by Escobar. Beautiful.

Nothing like a little small ball to rattle the pitcher and get a pitch to hit.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

OK, if they intentionally walk Tex and Heap to get to Frenchy and Jeff strikes out, can we send him down now?

By DAP

July 23, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

DOB quick question for you…i heard just a bit of the radio broadcast a few minutes ago, and pete was saying that he talked to someone from the marlins org. that said this braves team was the most undisciplined braves team at the plate he has ever seen. pete seemed to give the guy alot of weight, but i didnt hear the guy’s name or who he was…could you ask pete if you see him who he was talking about? i know you dont need anything else to do, but if you get a chance…

By TNJeff

July 23, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Frenchy’s got to be relieved that McCann hit into that double play rather than walked and put him up there with bases loaded

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Oh well. Heap hits into DP. Never mind.

By Bunt Smunt

July 23, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Does the manager in fact run the team? This isn’t a retorical question, it’s for real.

The reason I ask, how important is it to be able to lay down an effective bunt and move the runners up? Pretty important in my book. The reason I asked the manager question was to head off any would-be excuse from Cox defenders who would say, ” oh well those guys are supposed to know how to bunt when they get there.” I don’t care what they are supposed to know and what they aren’t supposed to know, Guys like Escobar would be bunting every day in BP until they couldn’t bunt any more, even at the expense of costing him full swing BP. I promise you after a while, these guys would learn the art. There’s no excuse for guys to go up there in a sacrifice situation bunting for a hit. That’s a lack of discipline. (Just like being a big leaguer in your 3rd year and swinging at pitch after pitch under your chin) Yet it continues to happen time and time again. Why is that?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

DAP,

I understand Don Baylor is healthy and possibly cancer-free and is looking for work in baseball again. He’d be a very nice addition to the coaching staff, if you know what I mean.

By N9

July 23, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

het DAP, we really are an aggressive team during at bats. and dont forget Diaz too hes one aggressive puppy!

By mitchie-san

July 23, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Wow, did that just happen? Good at-bat Jeff.

By A-ville Ranger

July 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

DAP, These ‘sources’ usually want to be quoted anonymously.At least when they tell an uncomfortable truth.

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Wow, ya don’t see that everyday from Frenchy. He hits a home run distance foul ball to left then follows it up with a double to right field.

Good for him, I really get tired of ripping on the guy but it just flows like water sometimes.

By Steve in VABch

July 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Guess Jeff didn’t like my earlier comment and made contact to prove me wrong. WAY TO GO JEFF

By Steve in VABch

July 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Guess Jeff didn’t like my earlier comment and made contact to prove me wrong. WAY TO GO JEFF

By Braveheart

July 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Useless statistical information:

The Braves were 29-8 when Chuck James got 4 or more runs of support.

The Braves are 9-7 when JoJo Reyes gets 4 or more runs of support.

1-17 when Chuck James got less than 4 runs of support

0-10 when JoJo gets less than 4 runs of support

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

The braves have been undisciplined at the plate for about 3 seasons now DAP. Not sure you need someone in baseball to tell you that if you’ve watched the games.

With Frenchy, Diaz, Andruw, LaRoche, Thorman, Langerhans, are just to name a few. I know it’s not a big list, but plate discipline is knowing the situation in which you’re batting as well, and there hasn’t been a lot of that in the past 3 years either. Hack-a jack has brought anything but discipline. Whatever happened to making the pitcher throw you your pitch, moving runners up and over, sac flys?

This team may have the same common goal to make it to the postseason, but its hitters show no common goal in how to push each other across the plate.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 23, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Are you guys watching the same game I am? It says the Braves lead 3-0. Just wanna make sure.

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

What’s going on in the game?

Travel day for me, no channel in hotel

By N9

July 23, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Welcome to the Gregor Blanco show

yep 3 hits and its 4th inn.

By Mr. Optimistic

July 23, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

well good thing with the score bad thing with chipper man can anything go right this season

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Well, looks like Chipper is bent over holding his leg.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

UNN-believable.

Just when things are going great in a game … disaster.

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

TNJeff—

Ha ha.

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

I hope that is the score, thanks

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Well, looks like the Braves are going to win this series. The very good Huddy showed up tonight, while the “I’m pitching against the Braves” version of Ricky Nolasco showed up.

By PIERSONBRAVE

July 23, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

NOOOOOO. Chipper’s hurt his hammy. WE ARE DONE!

By DAP

July 23, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

hey bobby’s cox, shutup. ive watched many many games the last three seasons.

to every one else, i know we have an agressive team, but this guy, who pete named, by the way, so it wasnt an anonymous source(i just missed it…volume was down on the radio), said it was the most undisciplned (not aggressive) braves team he had ever seen. im just wondering who pete was talking about, since pete seemed to give the guy alot of credibility. im sure DOB could easily find out who it was if he happens to cross paths with pete.

By N9

July 23, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

DOB,

disaster? how bad is chipper hurt. oh god thats all we need after all this injury-filled year.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Braves finally stringing together hits BossLady

Hudson, Blanco, Escobar - 2 singles then double in 3rd.

Francoeur/KJ - back to back doubles in 4th followed by Blanco/Escobar back-to-back hits later in inning.

2 doubles for Esco, 4 total for team. Blanco 3-3.

Good offensive night & Braves hoping they can face Nolasco everyday.

Nice to see the stringing together of hits. It’s been a long time coming. Too bad you’re missing out.

By Lew

July 23, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Francoeur hits and Chipper gets hurt. If only Frenchy had hit a Home Run it would have been different, right? Somehow it’s his fault, isn’t it?.

By A-ville Ranger

July 23, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

It wouldn’t be the craziest old thing to make 1st base a ft wider,extending it into foul territory.

There are recurring problems with runners that are never at issue with 2nd and 3rd.

By N9

July 23, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

feels like Dan Uggla is slightly overrated! poor defense, .271 avg.

By Steve in VABch

July 23, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Who wants to bet Tex hits a homerun tonight now that we have a 5 run lead and there is no pressure?

By 18 Wheels of Love

July 23, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Just like the old tarp at Fulton-County…”When it rains, it pours.”

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

UNN-believable is right.

Man, chipper needs yoga. Half the time he moves he pulls something. Do some hockey goalie stretch routines chipper. We NEED YOU!

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Well, this is the thanks I get for being positive.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Easy DAP

I didn’t mean that as a knock towards you. More as a knock to the braves…meaning it’s been really apparent - something that doesn’t need a scout to figure out.

I’m curious who said it too & thanks for the post. Sorry if it came across wrong.

By TN-MAN

July 23, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, if we weren’t in sell mode before, have to think the injury to Chipper just pushed us over the edge dont you?

By edward

July 23, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Ok. DHD, I read you put Jason Bay into our lineup. WHY????? He sucks. He is worse than Frenchy and Tex combined. I live in PITTSburgh and trust me, he sucks. He is an underachiever at the plate and lazy in the field. He just plain makes bad decisions all around. If we need an outfielder from the Pirates I say we get McClouth. The guy has been raking all year. Nady is good, but I think he is just an aberration this year. McClouth has been good since he was first brought up. I think we can trade for him. Also, Jack Wilson is a solid SS. I say let’s trade Frenchy for McClouth or Wilson. I bet we could get any number of decent hitters for Tex and Frenchy. It sucks that frenchy bombed, but let’s not wait till he totally implodes. The one thing I have never read about in regards to staff is Pendleton. He was a great hitter and all, but seriously, is he really doing that good a job?? Everyone wants to complain about Bobby, but he is not the one working with the hitters constantly. McDowell has done an amazing job. I was nervous when he was hired but he really has been outstanding. I think Pendleton has got to go though. I bet people would be hitting a lot better. Let’s look at the problem, no hitting, and see who is really doing the worst job. Not Bobby I will guarantee that!!

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

No word yet from the clubhouse on extent of Chipper’s hammy injury.

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Bobby’s Cox

Great play by play, I understood each hit.

Sorry I got to miss it too, but, money is money and I love to spend it. LOL

Any word on Chipper yet?

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

Runners left on base top of first - I smell another skunk

No - that’s not it. He who smelt it dealt it.

By Bobby's Cox

July 23, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

edward

Following Bay every day between 05-07 as he was on my fantasy team, I thought the same thing.

I haven’t followed him this year, but his stats have improved somewhat. McClouth I would imagine is untradeable, but I’ve been a bigger supporter of Nady than Bay as a trade option here on this blog. He seems to get more hits when the situation calls for it.

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Marlins announcers say Chipper will be reevaluated on Friday. (left hamstring)

By Saltywoody

July 23, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

How much you wanna bet Chipper’s quoted in the next few days as saying “something just came up and bit me?”

Haven’t heard that enough yet.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

They’re calling it a left hamstring strain and Wren says it’s not believed to be serious. Chipper will be reevaluated Friday.

By cooper

July 23, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Announcers said hammy strain with an evaluation on Friday.

If it is just a strain versus a tear they may have dodged a bullet.

Hold on and get the win, win the series and move on.

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Watching Law & Order SVU, They just shot the witness, the judge, the detective named Elliott and bailiff in the courtroom, weird indeed

What’s the score?

By Shamus Thacker

July 23, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Bobby now waits till he’s kicked out to pick boogs. He can wipe two or three days worth on the tunnel wall, but most importantly it’s private, making it all the more enjoyable.

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

(Bill) James said … (Bobby Cox) wouldn’t let a matter fester…

But after a couple of hot dogs and cheap beer, something else would fester.

By Random

July 23, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

You’re a good man, Charlie Chop.

You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Chop.

Yer the best, Chop Chop.

sniff

(Holding back the tears can make you cry, you know.)

By Mike in LA

July 23, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Oh man, what else can happen? Hudson is coming out after 68 pitches and was shown grabbing his elbow in the dugout

By Shamus Thacker

July 23, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

This has been a very strange year.

By TN-MAN

July 23, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about Hudson? Coming out of the game with 68 pitches something is up?

By Braveheart

July 23, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

How much you wanna bet Chipper’s quoted in the next few days as saying “something just came up and bit me?” Haven’t heard that enough yet.

His other favorite b.s. excuse is the “freak accident.” A little less time in the video room and a little more time on the yoga mat would lead to more Chipper on the field.

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Heh heh, I spoke too soon (sort of).

.296!

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Hudson only threw 68 pitches, so we’ll see how bad his elbow is (he was holding it, for those of you not watching game on TV)

By Steve from OH

July 23, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Paging Mike Hampton…

By N9

July 23, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

pete on radio said he saw hudson point to inner elbow and shaking off arm. hopefully not a costly night

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Holding back the tears can make you cry, you know.

And holding back something else can lead to intestinal difficulties.

Especially after a couple of hot dogs and cheap beer.

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Braves have some bad Karma out there.

Let’s see now, who did they scr%w?&

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

How much you wanna bet Chipper’s quoted in the next few days as saying “something just came up and bit me”?

What “came up” and “bit” him was the hot dogs and cheap beer he wolfed down prior to the game.

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

If Chipper is really hurt “bad” this time, they need to DL him immediately. Because this whole sitting on the bench (taking up a roster spot) for 2 weeks is BS.

BossLady its 6-0 with 2 on and 1 out.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Yep, it just might be time for Hampton to be thrust into the rotation with no more rehab or bullpen sessions (and thus no more chances to get hurt)

Hudson’s next start would be Tuesday. Hampton was to throw a final BP Sunday and told us yesterday he was ready to pitch if that went well, that he didn’t need more rehab games, arm felt fine.

By N9

July 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

at least hampton is felling great!

By N9

July 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

at least hampton is feeling great!

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

Unless the game doesn’t mean anything…if Huddy’s fine and with the low pitch count do you think Bobby might have him go on 3 days rest Sunday…since Jojo has struggled?

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Blanco matched career highs with four hits, three RBIs. Also reached base all five times.

By Steve from OH

July 23, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Hmm…Bowman says Hammy might pitch Saturday against Philadelphia in place of JoJo.

By Mike Hampton's vajayjay (Run Heap Run!)

July 23, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

A series win but Chipper and possibly Huddy injured? You’re right DOB, this isn’t funny.

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Jeff321

he could hit with the quad…you can’t with a hammy HELLO!

By BossLady

July 23, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks Jeff

I will only believe Hampton is in is when I see him throw the first pitch from the game mound. Otherwise, so be it…

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

HUDSON tightness in elbow, will be reevaluated tomorrow

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Hudson left the game with “tightness” in his elbow.

Too bad we didn’t trade him!

By Chris

July 23, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

I know Hudson was pointing at the elbow…but WHY WAS MIKE HAMPTON POINTING AT IT? KEEP THAT GUY AWAY FROM HUDSON!

I do like that after seeing that the FSN guys suggested Frank Wren get an adult beverage of his choice

By N9

July 23, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

so we get a nice win and then it gets dampened with our best pitcher and best hitter getting hurt with an early exit. GREAT.

By DHD

July 23, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

They should let Hampton pitch the rest of the games to get their money’s worth. :)

In the middle of all this stuff, the Braves are going to beat Florida 2 out of 3. Do that in Philadelphia and we’re still in limbo.

By Andy K.

July 23, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

DOB, ALL: Bowman over at braves.com says Mike Hampton will be ready to go, and Bobby is considering starting him Saturday in Jo Jo’s place. This’ll be good, because Jo Jo has really been struggling lately, and can refine himself @ AAA, so set your tivos for saturday!

By It's all Scatalogical

July 23, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

This isn’t funny-like-a-clown funny.

But it’s funny-like-a-whoopee cusion funny.

By KC

July 23, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

If Hudson misses any time with this elbow thing, it’ll be time to call the season before anyone drops dead on the field. That’s about the only thing we haven’t seen.

By Buyers

July 23, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers!Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers!Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers!Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers! Buyers!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Chipper hurt, Huddy hurt …

Ya think the baseball gods are telling us to sell?

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Andy, he probably won’t be starting in Jo-Jo’s place now, that’s for sure. Hampton definitely says he’s ready to go, but I’d be surprised if they don’t plug him in for Hudson now

By Chad

July 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

*By BossLady

July 23, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Braves have some bad Karma out there.

Let’s see now, who did they scr%w?&*

Is Chief Nokahoma still out there?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

For those who have suggested moving Chipper to 1st —

Tonight’s injury (if not the entire 2008 season) should tell you why it won’t happen. He’s had leg/knee/foot issues much of his career. He’d have a tough time staying healthy at all as a regular 1B.

Besides, he’s a gem at the hot corner.

By KC

July 23, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

BREAKING NEWS:

San Fransisco - The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Unanimously ruled on Wednesday afternoon that Will Ohaman and Blaine Boyer are not legally obligated to pitch every day, regardless of circumstance.

Atlanta Braves Manager, Bobby Cox, called the ruling “unacceptable”, and vowed to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court.

By Jeff321

July 23, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

he could hit with the quad…you can’t with a hammy HELLO!

YEAH, I think we all saw Chipper’s hitting while “injured” and taking up a roster spot. How about, he gets a walk or hit and Brent Lillibridge came in to run for him. So, ya burn two players, eh?

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

DOB

on tv Porter and others didn’t seem to look @ Huddy as if it’s THAT bad.

By KC

July 23, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

I sincerely hope the rotation for the Phillies series will be Jurrjens, Campillo, and Hampton… but assuming Hampton is ready, I doubt Bobby will skip Morton.

The season could very well be decided this weekend, and should be played as though it were a late September series. But Bobby won’t do it. I’ll bet money on that.

By DHD

July 23, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Yeah….somebody put that dang teepee back up.

Y’all remember when Ted took it down and we went on a losing streak?

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Wow, if Hudson goes down for any length of time……any chance that a trade for possibly Greg Maddux would be considered? Bronson Arroyo, maybe?

By kev

July 23, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

It’s the Curse of The Hampton!!!

By southbeachdietfreak

July 23, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Buuuddyy?????

By LT-AA Blogger

July 23, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

KC- funny stuff.

Thanks for making me laugh despite the horror that surrounds (referring to the Braves that is).

By glove51

July 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB: ON Costello — after all these years and all these different types of records (some of them not exactly my cup of tea), I am convinced that Elivs can do just about whatever the hell he chooses when it comes to making a good record.

The 2nd song on the CD, AMerican Gangtser Time, Steve Nieve’s organ sounds like it came right off the This Year’s Model record from 30+ years ago.

I sure hope he comes to The Cain’s this fall or winter. I saw him there when he was touring in supoort of The Delivery Man(on St. Patty’s day no less) and that was a great show.

By StingerSplash

July 23, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Buddy Carlyle’s ERA just jumped from 3.13 to 4.26. Ouch.

By KC

July 23, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

GONZO?!! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!! There is no reason for him to be in the game with a 6 run lead and one out in the 9th.

DOB: Is Soriano not ready????

Robert S: Maddux would have to be the guy. First of all, he can help us, where Aroyo isn’t getting anyone out. Second, Maddux is very attainable for the Braves, as he’s one of only a couple teams he’ll accept a trade to.

But we’ve got to take 2 of 3 in Phili and kick the Cardinals series off well immediately after that, if we are to expect Wren to ADD anything to this team.

By N9

July 23, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

nice game buddy C. Have you noticed his era has BLOWN UP the last two outings

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Could very well be the most costly win of the year, if Chipper and Huddy’s injuries keep them out for a while. Better get on the phone, Frank…..

By McFann :Ô:

July 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Series win on the road? Sweet!

But it’s reminding me of Night at the Museum:

Larry: “We lost a couple of great little men out there tonight.”

Teddy R.: “With great victory comes great sacrifice.”

Night, al!!

By N9

July 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

this game was a LOSS in my books

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Buddy’s coming back to earth. Too bad.

And as a closer, Gonzo is a joy to watch. What a competitor.

By JEB

July 23, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Bravo’s take a series!!! 2 on the road!! “It’s a festivas miracle!”

By Andruw update

July 23, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

1-3, 1RBI (12RBI for 2008), 1BB, 1K, 3LOB, .166avg

By KC

July 23, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Can’t wait to see what Phillies hitters can do against JoJo, the way he’s throwing right now.

On second thought… I can.

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

KC - I’m with you there. Maddux has reportedly said he wouldn’t mind going back to Atlanta, mainly because his family have lived there and it wouldn’t be a hard transition to make, and it would only be for two months.

But first things first - if Huddy’s OK, then it renders the point moot. If not, the trade only would be visited if the Braves can win 2 of 3 or sweep Philly this weekend, and they’d likely have to do it without Chipper.

Yikes.

And yes, Mad Dog would be a better choice than Arroyo, although the Yankees are looking at him.

By i cant take it anymore

July 23, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

was that a showcase of ohman tonight?

By JEB

July 23, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Blanco is doing very well at the top of the order! Great night tonight, AND (this will make many of you angry) he is crediting Terry Pendleton for his improvement!!

By Tomas

July 23, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Buddy’s finally showing his true colors. Maybe he is just a good first half guy. And KC I agree 100 percent with you on having Soriano pitch after Buddy blew it. It was a great chance to seeing him pitch for the first time since going into the DL with a 9-3 lead and give mike gonzales another day to rest.

By N9

July 23, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

cnnsi.com has a sweet picture of TEX as the main story. GREAT

By KC

July 23, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Robert S: IF the Braves are in a position to be buyers a week from now… I would trade for Maddux, regardless of whether or not Hudson misses any time.

I think Maddux is a better option than either Morton or Reyes down the stretch. If Hampton and Glavine BOTH wind up healthy, then you have a logjam problem… but how likely is it that both of those guys will get/remain healthy the rest of the way?

If we’re buyers, Maddux would be a valuable addition, and I don’t think we’d have to give up a ton to get him, under the circumstances - with him talking retirement at the end of the year.

By Why Us

July 23, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Whoa Buddy!

Last 2 innings (Nats/Fish) 8 hits, 10 ER, ERA from 1.52 to 4.26——yikes.

Shades of last year. Pitched great for a long period, then seemed to hit the wall or something, then he was justing throwing BP for the rest of the season.

Looks like deja vu all over again for Budddy. Up till these last 2 games he’d been a very pleasant surprize out of the pen. Hope he can recover, we need him in the pen.

Anyway it’s a W.

Now to stress over Chip & Huddy during the day off while waiting for updates.

By THWG

July 23, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Too bad the fish didn’t score 4 more… then we could win a one-run game on the road! I don’t think we will win a one-run road game the rest of the year. So sad.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Robert S, KC,

Maddux has reportedly said that he wants to stay on the West Coast if he’s traded.

I don’t want the Braves (who are still in fourth place, mind you) to make a move out of desperation.Those of you old enough to remember — it was late August 1983 that the Braves sent Brett Butler, Brook Jacoby and Rick Behenna to the Indians for Len Barker. The Braves didn’t win in ‘83 and paid for that trade with years of losing afterward.

Don’t think Wren will do something anywhere near that foolish. But keep it between the lines, folks.

By champ

July 23, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

I just saw the replay when they took Hudson out and was shaking his arm on the bench. Did anyone else see that Mike Hampton came over and touched Hudson’s arm? Good Lord get that guy away from any pitchers arm!!!

By KC

July 23, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

i cant take it anymore: Ohman has 51 appearances, and it’s not even August yet. If there were ever a player that doesn’t need to be showcased… it’s Will Ohman.

By kirknga

July 23, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

A rare road series win. Unfortunately more not so rare injuries as well.

Stranger still, we have people now looking forward to having a Hampton pitch!

Now I wonder how long until we get Acosta back?

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Took the words right out of my mouth, BravesFanInRockies. I guess he started to remember he was a mediocre journeyman.

Fun factoid about Carlyle - he has a plaque at Hank Aaron Stadium here in Mobile recognizing his contribution to the Mobile BayBears minor league team in 1998 - he was 14-6 that year. Kinda looks funny sitting next to that Jake Peavy plaque, though……

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Huddy hopes to make his next start, thinks he’ll be able to, said he’d have stayed in if closer game and no off day tomorrow.

Chipper hopes to miss only a couple days, but said it’s sore and he doesn’t know. Not certain about DL, but hopeful he can stay off it.

No word on Hampton, but he told me they haven’t told him if he’ll pitch Saturday or not.

By KC

July 23, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: Greg Maddux has also stated outright in a recent interview that he WOULD accept a trade to the Braves.

By Tomas

July 23, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Man I have to say, the will Ohman and infante trade was a great one the way both of them have played. If i’m Frank Wren I give Ohman the 3 million he is looking for, I mean the guy deserves it, and its been a long time since the braves have had a lefty like Ohman in the bulpen. I mean Ring has been shaky to say the least, and Gonzo is the closer. So I think that 3 million it’s not really a lot for this day on age, and I don’t really see a good lefthanded pitcher apart from Gonzo and Ohman.

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, I understand your fear of the Braves just reacting and trading foolishly. At the same time, I don’t think it would take more than a moderate A or AA prospect to land Maddux, similar to the Bob Wickman for Max Ramirez deal. Ramirez has had mixed results so far in the bigs, although he’s now in Texas.

This was posted on the MLB Trade Rumors blog on July 14, and it quotes Mark Bowman:

Braves beat writer Mark Bowman talked to Greg Maddux, who as you know has a full no-trade clause. When asked where he could see himself playing in August and September, Maddux named the Braves and Dodgers. He said he’d likely approve a trade to Atlanta.

That’s why I mentioned Maddux, and there are conflicting reports - one, that Maddux would only accept trades on the West Coast, and the other being that he might accept a deal to Atlanta, which came from the Mark Bowman interview with Greg. So who knows for sure?

One thing is for sure and that is the Braves wouldn’t make such a foolish trade like the Butler for Barker deal. I was around when that horrid Len Barker trade was made. I was a teenager then, and all I could do was shake my head at the fact that the Braves gave up so much, only to get so little in return.

I don’t think that would happen if the Braves made a play for Mad Dog, and he accepts the trade. And the Braves would have to win 6 of the next 7 games for that to even be a consideration. Also, Hudson would have to be out of commission for a while. Given those factors, I think we’re being realistic here.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Robert S, KC,

From MLB.com today:

*Maddux, 42, has a full no-trade clause and, according to sources, would only be willing to leave San Diego if it was for a West Coast team.

Another source said on Tuesday that Maddux (3-8, 4.21 ERA) would prefer to be traded to the Dodgers if he were to leave San Diego.*

Of course he could be pulling somebody’s leg. The Dodgers are right in the race but need middle IF more than pitchers.

By keylargo

July 23, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Maddux has said he would accept a trade to the Braves. It would not take anything more than a marginal prospect for him in trade. He is most likely retiring and is not under contract past this year. San Diego would save the approximately $4 million left on his contract. They are finishing out of the money with or without him.

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

I think DOB’s comments about Huddy making his next start probably renders the Maddux talk moot. Although I do agree with KC in that he’d be a nice addition, only if the Braves are within striking distance in a week and only after they aqcuire a bat.

Weren’t we talking about the Braves being toast just last night? I was. This game is maddening sometimes, or maybe it’s just the Braves. They tease you until the end.

But I do like this time of the year, and all the trade talk.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

To set the record straight, folks, I still hope the Braves are buyers and sellers. The team doesn’t need anything like a full makeover but it could sure handle a nip and a tuck, whether they’re making a run in ‘08 or getting ready for ‘09.

By cooper

July 23, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

DOB with JOJO looking like the JOJO of spring training 2008 and last year in other words doing his best Forrest Gump (you never know what you’re gonna get) I wouldn’t be surprised if Bobby gives Hampton the nod on Saturday.

I am sure Bobby would also hope they would trade for AJ Burnett or Maddux before Saturday as well. :)

With the team on life support putting JOJO in there against the Phillies (on the road) would be akin to playing Russian Roulette with 6 bullets in the gun.

JOJO’s flight to Richmond is likely booked Friday AM if Hudson says he is ok.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the Huddy/Chipper update.

If Chipper thinks he might have to go on the DL, that doesn’t sound good.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 23, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Sabathia just wrapped up his 3rd straight CG. The Brew Crew has won seven in a row, six on the road. Wow.

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

“I still hope the Braves are buyers and sellers.”

I can totally agree with you there, BravesFanInRockies. A nip and tuck would do this team good, even if they still ride out the schedule with scant hopes of making the postseason. This team has to improve personnel-wise and chemistry-wise (at least some parts of the offense and the bench) and it can still be done this year without giving up the farm.

By ArkyTech

July 23, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Uh, anybody else feel a little better if JoJo hangs arounds until AFTER Hampton’s start. You know, just in case…….

By brian

July 23, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

One thing that Steve Phillips mentioned that was interesting on baseball tonight was the Arizona Diamondbacks needing Tex(they would move Connor Jackson to LF). He said it was unlikely since they just moved for Rausch the more teams that are mentioned the better. I do not know who the Dbacks have though I am sure we would ask for Max Scherzer (or however you spell his name). The one accurate thing mentioned is that the Braves would have to be sure they are getting enough to make it worthwhile to give up the 2 draft picks.

Gammons mentioned Gonzales is off limits but that Ohman is available

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

“Sabathia just wrapped up his 3rd straight CG.”

Nice to know the complete game is not an endangered species up in Milwaukee, because it sure is everywhere else!

Take last night’s Mets-Phillies game. Johan Santana was pulled after 8 innings and 105 pitches, and the Mets duly blew up in the ninth.

105 pitches!!! Heck, I remember the days when the best pitchers threw 15, 20, and sometimes even 25 complete games in a season, not a career. There were no pitch counts then, but now pitchers are babied. What a shame.

But good for CC! He’s a freakin’ workhorse!

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

ArkyTech, I’m sure whatever plane JoJo’s taking to Richmond will be kept on ice until Hampton gets through the sixth inning without straining a hangnail. They might even ride Hampton back to the dugout on a golf cart just to be sure he gets there safely. But what if he trips getting off the cart? Crap!

Scratch that idea. Better keep JoJo handy on Saturday. Good thought, ArkyTech.

By Random

July 23, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Updated: in Braves’ 6 one-run wins, imo Tex was “clutch” in 4 games and “non-clutch” in 2 games.

From last blog:

For N8, Moby Grape, Braves Fan in Tn, et al, and yes, for DOB:

What with all the hoo-ha (aka foofaraw) the past couple days as to whether Tex is “clutch” or not, I thought I’d take a look at how he’s done in “important games” in this season only. (No career stats, no season stats, no last arbitrary number of games played stats). By “important games”, I mean simply the Braves’ 22 one-run so far losses this season.

Arbitrary sample? Maybe, but I hope it focuses on those games where he could have most made a difference, and it represented a manageable effort on my part.

In those 22 one-run losses, I have concluded that Tex was “clutch” in 8 games, “non-clutch”* in **11 games, with 3 games being a toss-up. My game by game figurings are listed below.

I agree with N8 — I have high expectations for a player to be considered “clutch”. As a minimum, for Tex to be considered a “clutch” hitter, I would expect him to come through “in the clutch” twice as often as not. I think the recaps below show that he has fallen well short of that expectation in the Braves’ 22 one-run losses.

3/30 @ WAS, 2-3 (Tex 1-4, 2B, 1 K, 1 LOB; top 9th, Tex doubles, Prado pinch runs, scores to tie game at 2: clutch for Tex)

3/31 v PIT, 11-12 (Tex 0-6, 1 K, 5 LOB; bottom 9th, down 9-5, Chipper drives in 6th & 7th runs, Tex pops up, McCann drives in 8th & 9th runs: no clutch for Tex)

4/3 v PIT, 3-4 (Tex 0-5, 4 LOB; bottom 6th, down 2-0, Chipper singles & later scores, Tex pops up; bottom 9th, 3-3, Tex pops up: no clutch for Tex)

4/7 @COL, 1-2 (Tex 0-3, 1 LOB; top 1st, 1 out, up a run, Tex strands Chipper at 2nd; no clutch for Tex)

4/8 @ COL 3-4 (0-3, 1 BB, 1 K, 2 LOB; top 1st, none out, up a run, runners 1st & 2nd, Tex lines out 4U; no clutch for Tex)

4/14 @ WAS 4-5 (Tex 2-4, 1B, 2B, 1 BB, 1 R, 1 LOB; top 6th, down 5-2, Tex doubles, scores 3rd run; top 8th, down 5-3, Tex singles, is forced at 2nd by Francoeur, who scores 4th run; top 9th, down 5-4, Tex IBB: clutch for Tex)

4/16 @ FLO 5-6 (Tex 1-3, 1B, 1 BB, 1 R, 2 LOB; top 3rd, down 3-1, 1 out, runners 1st & 2nd, Tex GIDP; top 6th, down 4-3, Tex singles, stranded; top 8th, down 6-3, Tex walks, scores 4th run: clutch for Tex)

4/26 @ NYN 3-4 (Tex 1-3, 2B, 1 BB, 1 RBI, 1 K; top 3rd, down 4-1, 2 outs, Tex walks to load bases, Hudson scores 2nd run on WP; top 6th, down 4-2, Tex grounds out to lead off; top 8th, down 4-3, Tex Ks to lead off: no clutch for Tex)

4/30 @ WAS 2-3 (Tex 2-5, 1B, 2B, 1 LOB; top 7th, 1-1, Tex grounds out to lead off; top 9th, 1-1, 1 out, Tex singles, stranded; top 12th, 1-1, Tex doubles to lead off, Prado pinch-runs, scores go-ahead 2nd run: clutch for Tex)

5/8 v SDN 5-4 (Tex 1-4, 1B, 1 BB. 1 RBI, 3 LOB; bottom 1st, down 2-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex singles home 1st run, stranded; bottom 3rd, down 2-1, 2 on, 2 out, Tex BBs, stranded; bottom 6th, down 4-1, Tex grounds out to lead off; bottom 7th, down 4-3, 1 on, 1 out, Tex grounds out, advances runner to 3rd , who scores tying run on WP;; bottom 9th, 4-4, 2 on, 0 out, Tex grounds out, advances runners to 2nd & 3rd, who scores winning run: clutch for Tex)

5/9 @ PIT 2-3 (Tex 1-3, 1B, 1 BB, 1 R, 1 LOB; top 8th, down 2-1, 2 out, Tex singles, scores tying 2nd run: clutch for Tex)

5/13 @PHI 4-5 (Tex did not play)

5/16 v OAK 3-2 (Tex 0-4, 4 LOB; no clutch for Tex)

5/17 v OAK 4-5 (Tex 2-4, 1B, 2B, 1 R, 1 LOB; bottom 2nd, down 4-0, Tex singles to lead off, stranded; bottom 4th, down 5-0, 1 on, 1 out, Tex pops up; bottom 6th, down 5-1, 1 out, Tex grounds out; bottom 9th, down 5-1, Tex doubles to lead off, scores 2nd run: clutch for Tex)

5/27 @MIL 2-3 (Tex 1-4, 1B, 2 LOB; top 9th, 2-2, 1 on, 0 out, Tex GIDP: no clutch for Tex)

5/28 @ MIL 0-1 (Tex, 1-3, 1B, 1 BB, 1 K, 3 LOB; top 1st, 0-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex walks, stranded; top 3rd, 0-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex singles, stranded; top 5th, 0-0, 2 on, 2 out, Tex flies out; top 8th, 0-0, 1 on, 1 out, Tex Ks: no clutch for Tex)

5/30 @ CIN 2-3? (Tex 0-4, 1 RBI, 1 K; top 6th, 0-0, 1 on, 1 out, Tex sac fly RBI for 1st run; top 8th, 2-2, 0 on, 2 out, Tex grounds out; top 11th, 2-2, 0 on, 2 out, Tex grounds out: no clutch for Tex)

5/31 @ CIN 7-8 (Tex 2-6, 1B, HR, 1 R, 3 RBI, 1 K, 5 LOB; top 3rd, down 5-2, 2 on, 0 out, Tex HRs to tie game; top 4th, up 6-5, 2 on 1 out, Tex Ks; top 6th, 6-6, 1 on, 1 out, Tex grounds out FC; top 8th, 6-6, 0 on, 1 out, Tex flies out: no clutch for Tex)

6/3 v FLO 5-4 (Tex 1-3, 2B, 1 BB, 1 R; bottom 8th, down 4-3, 1 on, 0 out, Tex doubles, scores go-ahead run: clutch for Tex)

6/6 v PHI 3-4 (Tex 1-3, 1B, 1BB, 1R, 2 K, 3 LOB; bottom 1st, down 1-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex Ks; bottom 3rd, down 1-0, 2 on, 2 out, Tex BBs, stranded; bottom 6th, down 1-0, Tex singles to lead off, scores tying run; bottom 7th, up 2-1, 2 on, 1 out, Tex HBP, stranded; bottom 9th, 2-2, 2 on 1 out, Tex Ks: clutch/no clutch ???)

6/12 @ CHN 2-3 (Tex 0-3, 3 BBs, 1 K, 3 LOB; top 1st, 0-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex grounds out; top 8th, up 2-1, Tex BBs to lead off, stranded; top 9th, 2-2, 1 on, 2 out, Tex IBB, stranded; top 11th, 2-2, 2 on, 2 out, Tex Ks looking: no clutch for Tex)

6/19 @ TEX 4-5 (Tex 1-3, 2B, 1 BB, 2 Rs, 1 K; top 4th, up 1-0, Tex doubles to lead off, scores 2nd run; top 6th, up 2-1, 0 on, 1 out, Tex Ks; top 9th, down 4-2, Tex BBs to lead off, scores 3rd run: clutch for Tex)

6/21 v SEA 5-4 (Tex 1-3, 1B, 2 BBs, 1 RBI, 2 Ks, 2 LOB; bottom 1st, down 3-0, 2 on, 1 out, Tex singles, drives in 1st run, stranded; bottom 3rd, down 3-1, 1 on, 1 out, Tex BBs, stranded; bottom 5th, down 3-1, 1 on, 2 out, Tex Ks; bottom 7th, down 3-1, 1 on, 2 out, Tex Ks; bottom 9th, 4-4, 1 on, 0 out, Tex IBB: no clutch for Tex)

6/24 v MIL 3-4 (Tex 2-4, 2B, HR, 2 Rs, 2 RBIs, 1 K, 1 LOB; bottom 2nd, down 3-0, Tex pops up to lead off; bottom 4th, down 4-0, 1 on, 2 out, Tex Ks; bottom 7th, down 4-0, Tex doubles to lead off, scores 1st run; bottom 9th, down 4-1, 1 on, 0 out, Tex HRs, drives in 2nd & 3rd runs: clutch for Tex)

6/29 @ TOR 0-1 (Tex 0-1, 3 BBs, 1K, 1 LOB; top 6th/8th, Tex IBB: clutch/no clutch ???)

7/6 v HOU 7-6 (Tex 3-7, 2 1Bs, 2B, 2 BBs, 3 RBIs, 1 K, 2 LOB; bottom 3rd, down 5-2, 1 on, 1 out, Tex singles home 3rd run, stranded; bottom 7th, down 6-3, 1 on, 2 out, Tex singles home 4th run, stranded; bottom 17th, 6-6, 3 on, 0 out, Tex singles in winning run: clutch for Tex)

7/9 @ LAN 1-2 (Tex 0-3, 1 LOB; top 7th, down 0-1, 1 on, 2 out, Tex flies out: no clutch for Tex)

7/18 v WAS 7-6 (Tex 1-2, 2B, 2 BBs, 2 Rs, 2 LOB; bottom 2nd, 0-0, Tex doubles to lead off, scores 1st run; bottom 3rd, 2-2, 2 on, 1 out, Tex BBs, scores 5th run; bottom 7th, up 7-5, Tex BBs to lead off, stranded: clutch for Tex)

By keylargo

July 23, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

It was mentioned above that cnnsi.com had an article about the trade deadline. The general consensus seemed to be that Tex would be traded right at the deadline. I was pleasantly surprised by what they predicted he would bring - easily besting the two draft choices.

Two things good about trading him are the salary relief - about $5 million - and getting mlb ready or almost ready players instead of draft choices that may NEVER be.

Even though Maddux said he would come to ATL. I don’t think the Braves could justify getting him unless it was a sentimental choice - which isn’t happening.

By David O'Brien

July 23, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Cooper, if Huddy feels a lot better by Friday, I’d not be surprised if Hampton gets the Saturday start. But they’ve got to see how Huddy feels first.

By Kashi

July 23, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Mr. BravesFan79 I agree it was a TERRIBLE roster move by Atlanta Braves over Pena and Javy Lopez. I bet you Javy would be the biggest threat on plate then any of our reserve bench player beside Norton. He has a speed and swing to intimate pitchers. And we would have got something by trading Javy to Yankees or Marlins this week. I have said this millions time and will say it again that we need Tex in our lineup everyday beyond 2008. This guy is 1B gold glove. No know look at it this way but to tell you the truth he has saved lots of runs and games for us. Being Escobar’s first year..he has thrown lots of bad balls at Tex and man he have gloved those balls to save Escobar a lots of time. And Chipper being hurt on and off…We need Tex more than any other teams. He is well worth 18 to 20 M for 6 years. We need to make sure there is one change in our coaching staff and it is a TP. Its time for him to take his fast assssss to Mets.

By TexasBrave

July 23, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Haven’t read all the above posts so if someone has mentioned the following I apologize.

Why not go ahead and skip Jo Jo and start Hampton, who is a ground ball pitcher, in Philly and if Huddy can’t go in his next turn plug in Jo Jo. Jo Jo would probably fair better at the Ted than the band box in Philly.

By N9

July 23, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

wow random that my friend is a detailed blogg! nice job on your homework!

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

McFann

IDK if you’ve seen this but it’s something I found on Mac..lol

[The cameras are always rolling]http://braveslove.blogspot.com/2008/04/cameras-are-always-rolling.html)

By bravos2249

July 23, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

McFann

IDK if you’ve seen this but it’s something I found on Mac..lol

The cameras are always rolling

By monty

July 23, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

It’s a shame that all those one run losses have taken their toll on this season. If they win half of those losses they are in 1st place. At least I’m pretty sure.

By Robert S

July 23, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, my thinking is that JoJo might get optioned to Richmond if Hampton is activated, as he’s struggled more so than Morton. Morton got no offensive support last night, and only made one real mistake, to Mike Jacobs.

The only way JoJo stays is if Huddy has to go on the DL, which is not as likely as thought, according to DOB’s report.

But like I said, that’s my guess……

By DesiBrave

July 23, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

3 days ago on a post I predicted Braves to sweep marlins. Some of you thought I was drunk and few others thought I was out of my senses etc. But for Francouer’s horrible at bat yesterday with bases loaded no out situation Braves could have really swept marlins

Anyways here is my next prediction.

If Chipper is in the lineup Braves will win 2 out of 3 against phillies. If he is hurt then Braves will get swept by phillies.

By Confusedus

July 23, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Confusedus say,”team that neither s—- or get off pot, give fans big hemorrhoid.

By Chop Chop

July 23, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

DesiBrave,

If it weren’t for bad things happening, the Braves would win every game.

I have a better prediction for the Phils series:

The Braves will lose two out of three whether Chipper is in there or not.

That’ll give the Braves a 3-3 week against the Fish and Phils, rendering them, uh, basically where they’ve been the last few weeks.

After that, it’s four games with the Cards before the true, real, and no-holds-barred trade deadline.

By kung fooo

July 23, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Confusedus

You are wrong septic breath.

One who will neither s__ or get off pot will get confusedazz.

By TexasBrave

July 24, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

Robert S, true Jo Jo is probably the odd man out but I think everything would hinge on how Huddy feels. The Braves will probably wait until Saturday to make a move. If the tightness is gone and there is no doubt that Huddy starts his next turn, then Jo Jo goes down. If, however, they are still not sure by Saturday then either the Braves will do what I mentioned in my last and send down someone else or go ahead and start Jo Jo on Saturday and save Mike just in case Hudson can’t make his turn.

Lets just hope that Huddy is ok and Hampton can make his season debut in a park where we need a ground ball pitcher. I shudder at the possibility of Jo Jo throwing in that park with the way he is pitching.

By Confusedus

July 24, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

Kung fool, ‘Confusedus’ say ”squat on ice, makes fool smile with joy”.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

DOB,

check out hampton’s career #’s at citizens small park.

if my recollection is right?, and i just got back from veni vedi vichi’s so my recolection is kind of pinot’d.

either way hamp has always pitched well there.

bowa used to cringe when he saw hampton.

By gotigers72

July 24, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this

Back in the 80s and 90s when I umpired high school baseball and softball, I can’t remember exactly what year, but the girl’s softball rules did an experimental thing to help avoid collisions at first base that worked well, at least in the games I umpired. They had 2 first bases,one in the usual spot in fair territory, and one right next to that one in foul territory. The fielder had to tag the base in fair territory, and the runner tagged the base in foul territory.

Don’t remember how that experiment worked out, but if I would hsve had a vote,it would have stayed that way. I haven’t been to a high school girl’s softball game lately, but I don’t think they use that double first base anymore. But some rec leagues around here use it, especially for the younger girls.

By kung fooo

July 24, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Confusedus

Second condition you describe will also cause you to become confusedazz. Risk of becoming permanent condition is high.

By A-ville Ranger

July 24, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

Are any of you coming up here to Asheville NC this weekend for ‘The Bele Chere Festival’? Last year we had 300’000 for the 3 days friday thru sunday.It’s the biggest free outdoor festival in the southeast.This year we’ve got 57 bands for the free festival on 7 stages plus a pay concert at the baseball stadium.

My favorite part is the arts and crafts though.I think we’ve got the best arts community in the south.

If you’ve ever been to downtown Asheville you know there’s not another place like it,certainly not in the southeast.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

the blog has finally collapsed on itself.

look i got abused last year over and over again about my opinion of francoeur’s mechanics.

everyone said look at his two out rbi’s and his risp.

all i ever said was look at that swing. front foot lunger, that has zero balance.

you cant hit off your front foot.

in ALL SERIOUSNESS, he cant hit a fastball.

it has nothing to do with his vision. IT has everything to do with his HAND position.

his hands go forward with his stride.

most good hitters hands go back.

quiet hands. look at guys like, HECK ANYONE ELSE .

By Chop Chop

July 24, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

2-0, 0.59 ERA for Hampton in 4 career starts at Citizens Bank.

He made three starts there in ‘04 and one in ‘05.

Of course, that Phillies team in ‘04 was a little different. Lieberthal, Thome, Polanco, Bell, Rollins, Burrell, Abreu, and Byrd/Michaels were the main guys in the lineup. Utley played a little over half a season that year. Howard had 39 ABs.

In other words, you’ve got four guys in the lineup now who were on that team.

Utley is 1 for 4 against Hampton in his career.

Howard’s never faced him.

Burrell’s a .133 hitter in 30 ABs, so Hampton owned him.

Rollins is a .222 hitter in 39 ABs against Hampton.

If Hampton can get out of his warm-up okay, let him go out there and start a game against the Phils. Might as well get their money’s worth out of the guy.

By nolie

July 24, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Pirates asking a bit less for Nady?

Market shifts as deadline nears-Heyman, S.I. Com

The word is that the asking price for Pirates outfielder Xavier Nady has “loosened” a tad, and that Pittsburgh seems more interested than before in trading him.

The Pirates were said a couple weeks ago by the New York Post to be seeking “two top prospects” for Nady, who’s having a big year (12 HRs, 56 RBIs, .327), but that seems to have come down a tad. Considering the Pirates have Nady, Jason Bay and Nate McLouth all thriving at the big-league level, and 21-year-old Andrew McCutchen playing well (9 HRs, 37 RBIs, .282) at Class AAA Indianapolis, they would appear to have an opportunity to help themselves in other areas by trading Nady or Bay.

“I think they’ll probably trade Nady but hold onto Bay,” one National League executive opined.

The Rays, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Diamondbacks and Cardinals are among the teams to have inquired about one or more of the Pirates’ star outfielders. Several teams are seeking a righthanded bat, making Bay and Nady especially desirable.

The Rays need a right-handed hitting outfielder and have the chips to deal. The loss of Hideki Matsui means the Yankees need an outfield bat, too, and like the Mets and Rays, they would also prefer a righthanded hitter.

Mets general manager Omar Minaya, who traded Nady to Pittsburgh in 2006 when he was desperate for a reliever after Duaner Sanchez’s freak shoulder injury, is said to be one Mets person who likes Nady very much. However, the organization’s reluctance to trade its top two prospects — outfielder Fernando Martinez and lefthanded pitcher Jon Niese — could force them to consider acquiring a solid but slightly lesser player, such as Seattle’s Raul Ibanez or Cleveland’s Casey Blake. Teixeira could go … but not for nothing

The secretive Braves aren’t saying whether they’re buyers or sellers. But people around baseball wouldn’t be surprised in the least if there was a deal just before the deadline involving star first baseman Mark Teixeira.

The Braves are apparently trying to gauge their chances to contend now, and that’s understandable since they’re in the unimposing NL East. Even so, their chances don’t look so hot from here, at seven games out and in fourth place. With all the injury problems they’ve had (is Mike Hampton ever coming back?), most baseball people ultimately believe reality will set in and Teixeira will be moved.

The Braves won’t be able to come close to recouping what they gave to Texas last summer to get one year of Teixeira (Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Matt Harrison and Elvis Andrus). But they’d easily beat two draft choices, which is all they get if he leaves as a free agent.

Angels GM Tony Reagins understandably laughed off the absurd report in a Minnesota paper of third-base prospect Brandon Wood and utilityman Robb Quinlan being the whole package to go to Atlanta for Teixeira as the babble of “bloggers.” (good line, though some bloggers actually do great work).

As former Oakland GM Sandy Alderson once said about a rumored trade of Jose Canseco (back when he was a 40-40 man for the A’s and before he became a disgrace) to the Yankees for something like Roberto Kelly, Mark Hutton and Sam Militello, that package doesn’t rent Teixeira for a weekend. Someone will probably wind up renting Teixeira for the final two months, and it may yet wind up being the Angels. But it’s going to take a lot more than that. Sherrill attracting a crowd

While talk of a trade involving Mariners pitcher Erik Bedard has dissipated with each of Bedard’s aches and pains, one of the players traded in the Bedard deal, Orioles closer George Sherrill, could still be dealt.

The Marlins, Dodgers, Cardinals, Phillies and Brewers were among teams scouting the Orioles game on Tuesday night. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported that the Cardinals were interested, and the Baltimore Sun reported interest from the Brewers in Sherrill, one of the All-Star heroes who’s done a nice job in Baltimore (29 of 35 in saves, 3.89 ERA). Sherrill is known for having decent stuff but exceptional guts.

The relief market looks a lot stronger than the starting market now. But a couple executives with relievers to sell expressed annoyance that the Nationals dealt Jon Rauch to the Diamondbacks for second-base prospect Emilio Bonifacio, claiming it wasn’t enough for Rauch. “I was surprised that’s all Washington got,” one AL executive said. However, Bonifacio isn’t bad (one exec likened him to former big leaguer Delino DeShields, who was a top stolen base threat for years), and if anyone knows the D’backs’ prospects, it’s Nats assistant GM Mike Rizzo. Bonifacio is said to be a fine defender with excellent speed.

The top of a strong relief market includes Brian Fuentes, Huston Street and Damaso Marte, along with Sherrill. A Denver Post report says that the Rockies have asked for Ian Kennedy, Clay Buchholz, Wade Davis or Niese in return for Fuentes.

Other viable relievers who could be dealt include Ron Mahay (though word is the Royals would have to be “overwhelmed”), David Weathers, John Grabow, Cla Meredith, Will Ohman, Mike Gonzalez and two more from Baltimore (Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker). Washburn talks may stall

If the Yankees can get Jarrod Washburn and get rid of Kei Igawa at the same time, that would be a double coup for them. But the finances may be trickier than first thought to pull of such a deal. And Washburn has a limited no-trade clause and can veto a deal to the Yankees barring an extension, which is another complication. Around the Majors

• With Jorge Posada likely relegated to DH duty if he returns, the Yankees are looking for catching. Some possibilities include Rod Barajas, Gerald Laird, Paul Lo Duca and Miguel Olivo.

• The Twins, Giants and Dodgers have shown some interest in the Rangers’ Hank Blalock.

• Yankees minor league-shortstop Alberto Gonzalez might become an option for the Dodgers if they can’t land the Pirates’ Jack Wilson or another more established shortstop like David Eckstein.

• Marlins pitching coach Mark Wiley must be a magician. He is doing a terrific job with the shocking Marlins, who won’t go away. Rick VandenHurk looked like a new man in beating the Braves 4-0 on Tuesday night.

• Astros GM Ed Wade certainly has the ability to surprise. And confound. His trade for Randy Wolf seems to suggest he thinks his team is a contender. Perhaps someone should next offer Wade a clue.

• Freddy Garcia will hold his pitching showcase Aug. 5 in Miami. Both New York teams have interest, among many others. He is hoping to pitch in the majors in September.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

just watched a rerun of generation kill.

probably the best thing hbo has done sans the soparnos.

people if you have HBO check it out. it is that good.

if you liked band of brothers, you will absolutely LOVE this.

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

It rained harder on my drive back to the hotel than it’s ever rained. In the history of earth. Ever.

It rained more in 20 minutes than it’s rained in two years back in Georgia.

It rained so hard … OK, I think you get it.

By N9

July 24, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

welcome to the sunshine state DOB!

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

a-ville,

asheville is awesome. DOB will appreciate this, the smashing pumpkins did a thing there last year and we went. what a great time and a great town.

it has character.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

DOB, did it rain like the movie magnollia?

now that would of been raining hard.

By A-ville Ranger

July 24, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

Good post Nolie,Here’s more thinking on why in my mind The Angels would be our best bet if trading Tex.

They are a team in contetion for the WS and they really nead a big bat in their lineup.

I also believe their GM Tory Reagins would think having Tex in LA for the balance of the season would increase their chances of signing him during off-season.

They are one of only 4 or 5 of the biggest players for prime free agents in general.

They may be the best team for Tex and he just might grow a pair and realize Boras isn’t his legal guardian and that he could instruct Scott to push for a fair deal with The Angels.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

so while everyone was talking b’q nobody brought up FAT MATT’S rib shack.

a little history lesson.

fellini’s and its cuban partner, were all friends.

fat matt’s is somewhat of a spinoff.

matt has had all the NBA guys there forever.

they used to deliver to MJ all the time when he is here. barkley comes in all the time.

DOB,

next time you ride your bike up there ask for WES JAMES. TELL him a stupid half drunk, braves, georgia bulldog fan that is married to a penn state fan wants to buy you lunch.

it should be gratis.

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

Yes, frogs are falling from the sky here on Hollywood Beach.

Generation Kill kills. Awesome show. Sundays are great TV again — Generation Kill on HBO and Mad Men on AMC, with season premiere of the latter this Sunday.

By jed

July 24, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

Oh what’ll you do now, my D.O.B? Oh, what’ll you do now with your M.I.B? I’m a-goin’ back out ‘fore Cox starts a-fallin’, I’ll walk to the depths of center field bawlin’, Where the braves fans are many and their hands are all empty, Where the francouers and hamptons are flooding their waters, Where the home in the Teddy meets with newfound derision, Where the general manager’s face is always well hidden, Where losing is ugly, where the pennants are forgotten, Where black is the player, where none is the number, And I’ll tell it and think it and speak it and blog it, And reflect it from the Cow so the hoopleheads can slog it, Then I’ll stand on the dugout until I start sinkin’, But I’ll know they’ve moved Tex before I start singin’, And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.

By bobby's cox

July 24, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

uga-brave

great analysis on Frenchy. I think you’re right….we all agree. God help him.

wow…just saw the news on hudson….in the midst of hampton coming back, hudson’s holding his forearm?

This story has turned full circle as hampton is finally manning up like you all want him to and is asking for the rock.

If this isn’t the most dramatic season one team has experienced in the history of baseball, please inform me.

McFann with great victory comes great sacrifice

Very clever. Very true. Amazing.

By bobby's cox

July 24, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

DOB

Sounds like you’re in the middle of a horror film with what transpired tonite and the rain.

get the he!! out of florida. The elements are consuming our team… we don’t need our beat writer to go down too.

By nolie

July 24, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

On the Townes tune…as someone who loves a ton of Townes influenced music and the whole Americana/roots rock genre in general (Earle, Lucinda, Uncle Tupleo, Whiskeytown, etc), what’s a good start in listening to Van Zandt himself?RHobbs

his 1969 eponymous album Townes Van Zandt is as good as it gets

By bravos2249

July 24, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Also considering Hampton hasn’t pitched in FOREVER…wouldn’t it be better to have him go up against the Phillies?

I mean what are they going to do look at his “last game” pitched…it’s a chance because he could get roughed up but I’d say considering Jojo’s recent issues…I’d go with him.

Huddy isn’t suppose to start until Tuesday…and either way if Huddy would have to miss his start, Jojo and Hampton would both pitch vs the Cards anyway.

So there’s no big difference if Hampton pitches Sat or not.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

the marlins infield is going to have 4 players hit 25 hr’s each.

there is a outside chance that no one on the braves roster will hit 25 dingers.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

our pitching has been better then good.

said it all off season, the n.l. east has the best middle infielders in baseball.

same division, five great player’s three good ones.

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

I’m not totally opposed to moving Chipper to first, leading off Blanco and playing Lillibridge at ss and Escobar at third.DHD

there is no way on God’s green earth that Chipper is moving to first next year.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2009)

July 24, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

at any rate, the Braves are well justified in wanting three top prospects for Mark Teixeira. If Will Ohman is included in the trade, we are talking four or five players in return.

Which is why there is still 30 to 40 percent odds that Tex and Ohman may not be traded at all.

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Blanco,cf…Escobar, 3b…Chipper,1b….Bay, lf….McCann,c….Francoeur,rf….Johnson,2b….Lillibridge,ssDHD

you could try to be at least vaguely realistic, it ain’t fantasy baseball and that lineup is never gonna happen. what a waste of blog space

By Kevin

July 24, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

DOB how many episodes of Generation Kill have aired already? I think I’m ready to give it a chance.

By bravos2249

July 24, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this

**IDK if last year before Tex or 2006 but some writer/reporter asked JS about moving Chipper to 1st and if I remember correctly he said something like:

“Chipper’s already made enough sacrifices for this organization and we won’t ask him to learn a new position again”

Remeber guys he’s a natural SS…a natural third basman per se probably wouldn’t have to “learn” 1st, because they’ve played there alot**

By BA

July 24, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

DOB, do you think there’s a chance that IF they move Teixeira, my man Canizares would get a call up? Or maybe Infante? Freaking Thorman? I’d vote for Canizares. All the guy has done all year long is hit.

By uga-brave

July 24, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this

so explain to me why we would trade a guy like will ohman?

look i was skeptical when we got him. we let mahay go in the same roll.

ohman has been great. so if we could sign him for, mike remlinger money the braves should do it.

think about it?

next year, gonzo closing. soriano, moylan, and ohman seting up.

two lefty’s and two righty’s in the back end of the bullpen.

that is pretty darn good. lights out.

well then again, we have to get a lead first.

THAT HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM.

By kung fooo

July 24, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

DHD

and to complete the lineup, let’s move Kelly back to LF, McCann to 2B so he can play 162 games, Francoeur to C so that arm can be utilized, call up Scott Thorman to play LF since Chipper proved it was so easy to do, and see if the Dodgers would take JO Jo, Chuckie and Charlie Morton(we’ve got some solid vets) for Andruw so we can have some defense again in CF.

Just a few tweaks and we are competing again!!

By CharlieAlphaBravo

July 24, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this

Did anyone notice “He Who Shall Not Be Named” touching Huddy’s elbow after he came out tonight? Are they crazy??? Don’t let him touch it!?!

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 2:58 AM | Link to this

I brought this up when everyone was talking about Francoeur as a great clutch hitter as if he had an innate ability to hit well in the clutch. But where are those people now?Shaun

ah but did he ever hit between .500 and .667 in clutch Shaun? No? well obviously he just wasn’t a clutch hitter even then. Those(not yours) were some of the funniest stuff I ever read.

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

I agree that Frenchy probably shouldn’t be batting 6th. But on the flip side of that who exactly are you going to bat there? KJ has been almost just as bad as Frenchy lately so whom exactly do you put there?Knowitall

hey, don’t try using any of that there logic stuff on this board. Totally unacceptable guy

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 4:19 AM | Link to this

wow random that my friend is a detailed blogg! nice job on your homework!

Too bad all that work was wasted on a ridiculous concept that a hitter should succeed 67% of the time in clutch situations.As Moby replied, that concept is so wrong as to be ludicrous.I ‘m not surprised by such idiocy from N8, but somewhat disconcerted to see it from Random. Sigh

By nolie

July 24, 2008 4:34 AM | Link to this

DOB how many episodes of Generation Kill have aired already? I think I’m ready to give it a chance.Kevin

The first two out of seven have aired. I liked it a good bit too, although not as much as BoB. Some very good dialog & one-liners in it.The first two can be found and downloaded as bit torrents if you are into that.

By Bravo Nam

July 24, 2008 6:00 AM | Link to this

Frenchie

I think Frenchie might be regretting turning down the Braves offer made a while back…just about now.

Guys like Smoltz, Chipper and McCann have shown their genuine commitment and loyalty to the Braves by consistently accepting below market contracts. Chipper even reworked his contract to help free up the Braves’ budget.

Although Andruw followed the Boras line this last time, he too negotiated a below market contract a number of years back to stay with the Braves.

Even the maligned BC has time and time again accepted below market contracts to stay with the Braves…particularly at the peak of the Braves’ success.

I think if Francoeur wants to win back the hearts and minds of Braves’ fans as well as the respect of his detractors, he should approach the Braves and get a contract done now…with a hometown discount…and request a return to AA until he gets his game back in shape. This would also be a smart financial move on his part- he gets guaranteed money now (in case his form doesn’t return), he takes the pressure and spotlight off himself so he can focus on his game, he has a better chance of improving his game and getting a bigger contract later on, and he again becomes a sponsorship darling through improved performance and winning back support of the public.

By Mike Hampton's vajayjay (Run Heap Run!)

July 24, 2008 7:02 AM | Link to this

The Phillies will absolutely devour JoJo if he pitches Saturday. As crazy as it sounds I’d rather see what Hammy’s got than to trot JoJo out there to get pounded. Hopefully Huddy will be ok and Mikey can make it to Saturday without getting a hang nail.

By Off Topic

July 24, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

At what point does the AJC do something about the Falcons blog? I wrote to Julia Wallace a year ago about the infrequent updates. She said it would be discussed. There seemed to be an improvement. However, unlike EVERY OTHER BLOG on the ajc, commenting is open for a couple of hours and then closed. OR like the most recent one, it never opens at all. Pathetic. This has to be Wyche, right? When will someone at the AJC demand better performance from this guy? I would have posted this on the Falcons blog, but, of course I CAN’T.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

July 24, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this

It seems as though the baseball press, as well as the stable-minded bloggers here, continue to question whether or not the Braves will be buyer or sellers.

Couldn’t they be both?

If the Braves decide to trade Texeria and/or Ohman, could they not also look to acquire someone like Casey Blake? His ability to play first, third and a corner outfield spot surely wouldn’t hurt - assuming the price was right.

Speaking of Ohman, while again, many people feel he would be the most likely to be dealt, it seems that there might be more of a reason to keep him and trade Texeria. Here’s my rationale, as flawed as it may be:

If they retain Ohman, and offer him arbitration, the Braves would either receive Type A compensation or have to pay him around $3mil next season. And while it might be hard to initially justify that salary within the Braves budget, going into the off-season with Ohman, Gonzales and the hopefully healthy Moylan and Soriano would allow the organization to focus its attention on improving the offense, and to a less degree, the starting rotation.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the Braves were to not trade Texeria, and not offer him arbitration, they would get no picks in return (see Andruw Jones last year). While Texeria’s production isn’t easily replaced, the Braves would almost assuredly get a major league, starting position player as part of their return. That person’s production shouldn’t prevent them from being any less competitive than they are now.

For the next two months, the Braves do have enough pitching to keep them in most games. Adding another bat, like Blake, might help fortify the roster enough to keep them in the race.

Of course, with Chipper’s hamstring injury, the complexity of the situation might be amplified. But lest anyone forgets, the division looked wrapped up last year until the Mets imploded. All it might take is one 10 out of 12 winning streak and the Braves are right there again.

That’s a big “might” considering the last couple years, but it also isn’t totally unreasonable.

By Salty

July 24, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

It rained harder on my drive back to the hotel than it’s ever rained. In the history of earth. Ever.

Noah might disagree! LOL! The frogs, probably not!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

As for McGriff. Similar to Tex. While his post-season “numbers” aren’t that bad, I don’t really remember any BIG hits by the Crime Dog. I remember a LONG HR against Philly (in a loss) in 93.

So because you don’t remember any “big” hits, he didn’t contribute in the post-season? And how do you define “big hits”? I’ve made this argument before: What about, say, a two-run homer in the first inning? That may or may not get in the highlights, but I’d say that’s a big hit for the team.

*I do, however, remember big hits from Lemke, Lonnie, Justice, Devereaux, Polonia, and even a big Sac-Fly from Jerry Willard. *

Right. A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. Seriously, plenty of rather unspectacular major leaguers have gotten hits and sac flies. It happens all the time. Should we assume that these guys have a knack for coming through with big hits more than Fred McGriff because maybe we remember big hits from them and not McGriff?

Careful TNJeff, I said that 2 weeks ago and the response from Shaun and others was that record is standard for most teams when scoring 3 runs or less.

Well, often times when people point out things like this not realizing they aren’t really making any sort of point. Like when the Yankees had Rivera and Wetteland, you’d hear a commentator say, “The Yankees’ record is such-and-such when leading after 8 innings. Isn’t that impressive?” Or two or three years ago Elias gave the Braves’ impressive record when both Chipper and Andruw homer in the same game. Is it really saying anything? Most teams have a good record when leading after 8 innings. Most halfway decent teams are going to have a good record when two of their best players homer. So please forgive me if I think it’s somewhat pointless to point out that the Braves have a poor record when scoring 3 or fewer runs.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

They’re still here Payne. It’s just that, if a player has an innate ability to hit, does a slump mean there is no such thing as an innate ability to hit? I believe it was you who stressed during AJ’s rut that a player is neither as bad as his worst slump nor as good as his best hot streak. But now apparently a player in his worst slump is proof that a specific skill simply doesn’t exist. I suppose the search for truth continues…

The simplest way I know to answer the question of whether clutch hitting is actually a skill, is to find a player (who has a meaningful sample of plate appearances in several situations) who consistently performs significantly better in clutch situations than he does overall. So far I haven’t found such a player. And judging by the lack of response when I brought this up twice, I’m guessing no one else has either.

Also, intuitively the concept does not make sense. Every plate appearance in the majors is pretty pressure-filled. Sure, probably some more than others but seems to me a player who has reached the big leagues wouldn’t feel so much pressure in one situation over another that they are able to perform in one but not another.

So I guess I don’t view it as clutch hitting is an imaginary skill. I view it as any baseball player with what it takes to reach the majors, probably has the ability to overcome pressure. Sure there are people who are and who aren’t clutch. But the people who aren’t are also the people who aren’t in the majors, or even past A-ball or Double-A. I’m thinking, you make it to Double-A or Triple-A, you are probably capable of overcoming any pressure you may feel in a big plate apperances.

By Will

July 24, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I cant believe Chipper injured his leg again. No Way! I just never in a million years saw that coming.

By monty

July 24, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Anybody seriously thinking of Chipper moving to first needs to quit it. How many times a game do you see Tex catch a ball and sprint to first to beat the runner? At least 2-4 times a night. The last thing Chipper needs is to sprint to first, it seems that’s what caused the problem last night.

What Chipper needs is what we used to have playing back yard ball in our neighborhood, A PinchRunner who would run from home to first for the batter.

By Jeff R

July 24, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

chuckw, Chipper always complicates matters because he’s so injury prone. I realize the team has him under contract through 2009, but now is the time to find the next generation 3rd sacker. A team can’t invest so much in a player whose on-field time is so unpredictable.

As to lightening striking and the Mets and Phils imploding - anything can happen, certainly. But if I were in the Braves’ executive suite, I’d be making a hard-eyed assessment of the team’s chances of overtaking either or both of the aforementioned teams. Given the Braves hot and cold play, and their horrible road record, I’d opt to move Super Tex and Ohman if the right value is offered in return. It’s becoming more apparent that this team needs some rethinking and overhaul. I can’t believe that the brass is senseless to that reality.

By DesiBrave

July 24, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Last year on this day Phillies were 5 games out of the first place and they won the division in the end. The reason was they had faith in their team and didn’t become sellers. I want Mr Wren to have faith in Braves hitters. Send Francouer the weak link to AA and then get a solid hitter to help Chipper, Teix and Mac and post season here we come !!!

By 22oz

July 24, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

DOB, this may seem like an oddball question, but i have to ask. Are you around Jerome Jurenovich much during interviews? He seems to be kinda pushy with his questions, not letting anyone else ask anything. Bobby looked p** at him last night. I know we’re only seeing small bits of the interview when he asks questions, but still, Morton looked terrified the night before last to talk to him. Our Katy Temple seems to be a little less pushy with her questions.

By Mike Hampton's Vajayjay (Run Heap Run!)

July 24, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Will

I know, right? Next they’ll tell us Mike Hampton will pitch again. The apocalypse is near!

By Marc

July 24, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

This is DOB’s idea of a hard-hitting interview? Asking a journeyman player if it’s the manager’s fault? Did you expect him to say, yeah, Bobby sucks? How ridiculous is that?

As for him going to Pepperdine, when did that school become synonymous with intellectuals? Just because he used a word that 90% of the population other than ballplayers knows?

DesiBrave,

You really are living in la la land.

By Big Easy

July 24, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Yeah, 22oz, Braves Live! is much better when Jurenovich is in the studio and OKT is in the field. She never seems to have it together in the studio, like she is extremely uncomfortable. But in the field, she is great, and her interviews seem well-handled.

Just my 2 cents, though.

~E~

By SherryinVA

July 24, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

I hope Chipper doesn’t go on the DL! I purchased tickets three months ago to see them play the Cardinals. I was so excited to get to see Chipper, Tex for the first time, Glavine back in a Braves uniform, Smoltz pitch again. We’re driving 6 1/2 hours and I hope we get to see at least one of them!!!

By MacDaddy

July 24, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Perhaps it is time for Chipper to think about becoming a DH in the American league. He could bring good trade value. I know he and the Braves organization would prefer seeing him retire as a Brave but there comes a time in life when adjustments have to be made due to injuries and getting older. His days with playing championship play with the Braves organization is fading slowly but surely.

By timthebrave

July 24, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

In my opinion there are too many games left with the phillies, mets, and marlins to say that the season is done. This team is not as bad as their record and the teams in front of them have serious flaws as well. Need to play better in one run games and need to put it to the Phils this weekend. I refuse to give up. 6 games out is not impossible to catch up. Do they have to play a lot better than they have? Obviously…It can and will be done. What? What’s that you ask? Oh yes, I do love kool aid. Go Braves!

By Dadgum

July 24, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

“dock that man a days pay for napping on the job”.

“Ms.Rudolph,Ms.Rudolph, can you tell me what happened to the tarantula?” “no! but if you don’t bring me that turkey you will see him again”

Just a couple hilarious lines from some funny guys that can play over to the Braves woes. Name them within 15 minutes of this post and claim one ATTABOY.

Rock on…..hint-2nd quote from a comedian, 1st quote “man” used to be politically correct.

By N9

July 24, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

SherryinVA

bad timing on your tix. You will miss chipper,smoltz,glavine, and tex might be traded. So come on by and see your 2008 minor league team or better yet just drive to richmond its closer to you!!!!

By Will

July 24, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

MacDaddy, The problem with Chipper playing DH is have you not noticed that he hurts himself 95% of the time running the bases???

By Will

July 24, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Timthebrave, have you happened to watch the last SIX games with the Phillies. They always kick Braves a* up in Philly too let alone the double sweep in Turner Field.

By Lee in S GA

July 24, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

On the radio last night Chip and Pete bought up this theory. With 61 games remaining the teams which make up the N.L. division will be playing each other a total of 24 times in games.

They stated that the Braves would automatically have to win these 24 games in order just to keep the same pace of remaining 6 games behind. The other 37 games would have to actually be the ones they make ground up on to win the division.

Not impossible; however not likely.

By Lew

July 24, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Quack Quack-Dude, I don’t know what SLG %, OPS+ or Badabing Francoeur had in the clutch the last couple years and I am in full realization that he is at fault for the Braves’ season, the rise in gas prices, the Housing Crisis and the fact the unemployment rate is going up quickly (hey-the disparity between the leagues is probably his doing too). However, he led ALL OF BASEBALL (including Pujols) in two out RBI’s in 06-07.

While maybe not conforming to your perception or expectations of what clutch hitting is, before his current slump, he was The Man to have up in those situations. This is also why I, for one, refuse to give up on the guy. He’s done it before-he can do it again.

By Mike

July 24, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I say trade Tex as long as we get some good young players. He has not been a difference maker and we will have to spend a lot of money on the draft picks. Trade for good young kids who have already been paid their large signing bonuses. We have that stud 1B in the minors who will be ready for next year. We will still be able to compete the rest of the year with or without Tex. Trade him to the highest bidder!!!!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Regarding Maddux:

I read somewhere that he would prefer the West Coast but if a team with a chance wanted him, he would go East. Who knows?

I suppose it wouldn’t be a bad move for the Braves if they don’t have to give up much and don’t have to pay much but I doubt Maddux would make too much of a difference.

His ERA is slightly about league average. His ERA at Petco is 2.51. Away from Petco it’s 6.02! He’s probably not as bad as that 6.02 indicates but I seriously doubt he would make a difference to the Braves.

But again he’s probably still not an awful pitcher and he provides innings. So if the Braves could get him for virtually nothing, I suppose it wouldn’t be a terrible move. If nothing else, maybe it shows the team that the front office still believes they can win.

By SherryinVA

July 24, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

N9

You’re right would be closer to see the exact same thing and would save money in the process!!! The last time we went to Atlanta in July ‘06 didn’t get to see Chipper, he went on the DL and we watched them get swept by the Mutts. Got to see Glavine, only in the wrong uniform!! Hopefully this time they will at least win a game!!!!

By Lew

July 24, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

MacDaddy-The problem with Chipper becoming a DH is that he still has to run to first base. THAT is what caused his hamstring injury last night, NOT playing defense.

By MAV

July 24, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Please just let Hampton start on Saturday or anybody else, i can’t take another start by Jojo. The guy can’t figure it out. He needs to be bak in the minors. Hell let Buddy start instead. I say NO MORE JOJO!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Lee in S GA, well, that’s not exactly true. Yes, it would be extremely helpful for the Braves to win the games against the teams ahead of them in the NL East race. But it’s conceivable for them to win it without winning all of those games.

The Braves could help themselves immensely just by winning maybe 40 or so of their remaining games. They don’t have to necessarily beat this team this many times or that team that many times. If they win around 40 of their games, they’ll put themselves in a good position.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

*The simplest way I know to answer the question of whether clutch hitting is actually a skill, is to find a player (who has a meaningful sample of plate appearances in several situations) who consistently performs significantly better in clutch situations than he does overall. So far I haven’t found such a player. And judging by the lack of response when I brought this up twice, I’m guessing no one else has either. *

Even in your “simplest way” to find an answer, you have chosen your own definition for what a clutch player is. That’s part of the problem in having the discussion in the first place. One guy creates a definition that fits the argument he can make. While someone else creates different criteria, becuase it allows them to prove their point.

For the most part, I don’t think people try and define a clutch player as someone who is “significantly better” in the clutch than they are the rest of the time.

But, there are some players who definitely seem to have a knack for “falling short” in key situations.

Two years ago, when people were hotly debating Francoeur and LaRoche, people pointed out that while Francoeur seemed to step up in big situations, LaRoche seemed to shrink in those moments.

That’s not to say that Francoeur’s performance was significantly better in late innings than it was the rest of the game; however, it definitely was worth noting that despite his poor OBP, etc., he did have two, HUGE, ninth inning homers in just the first 6 weeks of the 2006 season that led directly to Braves’ wins.

That is part of the reason why people liked Francoeur so much early in his career, he seemed to have a flair for the dramatic, and people felt confident that he could make something happen in tough situations. LaRoche, not so much.

Reggie Jackson hit 3 home runs in one World Series game in 1978.

Barry Bonds, the all-time home run leader, had a history of post-season failure, before finally getting a single taste of post-season success in 2002.

Whether a statistical sampling bares it out, or not, there are some players who know how to step up and embrace the big moment, while other’s cower.

While I’m not going to argue that there are lower-tier players that are “significantly” better late in games than the rest of the game; I have witnessed players that have a penchant for stepping up late in games, while others buckle under the pressure.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

*The simplest way I know to answer the question of whether clutch hitting is actually a skill, is to find a player (who has a meaningful sample of plate appearances in several situations) who consistently performs significantly better in clutch situations than he does overall. So far I haven’t found such a player. And judging by the lack of response when I brought this up twice, I’m guessing no one else has either. *

Even in your “simplest way” to find an answer, you have chosen your own definition for what a clutch player is. That’s part of the problem in having the discussion in the first place. One guy creates a definition that fits the argument he can make. While someone else creates different criteria, becuase it allows them to prove their point.

For the most part, I don’t think people try and define a clutch player as someone who is “significantly better” in the clutch than they are the rest of the time.

But, there are some players who definitely seem to have a knack for “falling short” in key situations.

Two years ago, when people were hotly debating Francoeur and LaRoche, people pointed out that while Francoeur seemed to step up in big situations, LaRoche seemed to shrink in those moments.

That’s not to say that Francoeur’s performance was significantly better in late innings than it was the rest of the game; however, it definitely was worth noting that despite his poor OBP, etc., he did have two, HUGE, ninth inning homers in just the first 6 weeks of the 2006 season that led directly to Braves’ wins.

That is part of the reason why people liked Francoeur so much early in his career, he seemed to have a flair for the dramatic, and people felt confident that he could make something happen in tough situations. LaRoche, not so much.

Reggie Jackson hit 3 home runs in one World Series game in 1978.

Barry Bonds, the all-time home run leader, had a history of post-season failure, before finally getting a single taste of post-season success in 2002.

Whether a statistical sampling bares it out, or not, there are some players who know how to step up and embrace the big moment, while other’s cower.

While I’m not going to argue that there are lower-tier players that are “significantly” better late in games than the rest of the game; I have witnessed players that have a penchant for stepping up late in games, while others buckle under the pressure.

Let me ask. Did you watch Kirk Gibson in the 1984 and 1988 World Series?

That guy stepped up and had two, huge, clutch homers - one in each series. Your computer may not like it, but those were clutch homers. By hitting two big homers, in his only two World Series appearances, Gibson gets the nod as a “clutch player”, like it or not.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Lew, I agree with you that Francoeur will come out of it and have a solid career.

But I don’t know if there will be a point where I want Francoeur at the plate instead of someone like Pujols or even someone like McCann. I’ll trust somebody’s talent (as indicated by their overall numbers) over what someone has or hasn’t done in clutch situations.

By opie south

July 24, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

If Chipper is down for any time see if Arizona will bite on this trade. Tex and Frenchy for Conor Jackson and Mark Reynolds. Arizona has a third baseman they like to replace Reynolds. Bring up Anderson. No power in the outfield but none there now but look at the speed with Blanco, Kotsay, and Anderson with Brandon Jones brought up as a back up. Could be exciting besides Frenchy is not hitting home runs anyway. Jackson and Reynolds are both young and good to build with. I think the Braves would actually have a better chance of winning as attitude of the team may change.

By N9

July 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

MAV Hell let Buddy start instead. I say NO MORE JOJO!

mav where have u been the last two games buddy pitched? he had era in one something now its at four something…ummm no..also were giving jojo experience. How would he feel if he gets bummped by a worthless reliever. He is still young.

By Serge45

July 24, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

I think now is a decent time to mention just how asinine the DH rule is. There are so many ways to attack it, and so few to defend it, other than tradition. AL teams can budget and prepare to take on the extra salary of a guy who will play 150 games for them, meanwhile come the World Series the NL teams trot out their best backup for 3-4 games. The AL teams can attract guys like Pizza, Bonds, or even a Chipper once their bodies keep them from playing in the field everyday. It’s funny, the AL dominance is mentioned in the All-Star game and World Series, but nobody mentions the fact that each AL team has one more everyday player than the NL teams.

By TexasBrave

July 24, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

DOB last night in a FOX interview Blanco gave Terry credit for helping him with his foot work at the plate. I know a lot of people want to place some blame on TP for the Braves hitting woes but the majority of the blame has to go to the hitters themselves.

In your interview TP talked about having an idea before coming to the plate. To me that means looking for your pitch, the one you would like to hit the most at least for the first or second strike. To me it doesn’t seem that Frenchy is even listening to TP because if he had he’d been out of this funk long ago.

In my opionion Frenchy’s pride/ego is getting in the way of his and the teams success.

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Maddux has done well in his last 10 games, I think he struggled against 2-3 teams in his las 10 outings, the rest were pretty good starts. It would be a good pick up, but then again, if hampton comes up for good, there is no need to get maddux

By DAP

July 24, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

lew I am in full realization that he is at fault for the Braves’ season, the rise in gas prices, the Housing Crisis and the fact the unemployment rate is going up quickly

sounds like jeff francouer is bizarro david wright. he is the anti-wright. he aint wright, he’s wrong.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 24, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Shaun and Lew,

I’ve ripped on JF for some time now, and some of my criticism is not directed at him so much as the way he’s been used in the lineup.

For the most part I’m with Shaun about “clutch” players. If somebody is significantly better with the game on the line, does that mean he’s dogging it during “meaningless” ABs?

To the point on Frenchy. His OPS with 2 outs and RISP since 2005 are as follows:

1.057, .760, .902, .662

In other words, there’s no pattern, unless you think it’s significant that he’s been terrific in odd years and mediocre at best (for a middle of the order hitter) in even. BTW, he has about the same number of plate appearances in the 05/08 and 06/07.

And yet he has slightly less than 300 ABs in those “clutch” situations through his career. That’s not a huge number to judge a player’s career, especially one with such glaring holes in his game. The way I see it, the jury’s out on him to the degree that we don’t know if he’s going to eventually develop into a solid major leaguer, or even a star like Jermaine Dye (whose early career numbers are similar).

What I can say is that he’s far from a polished player and I still believe he could benefit from either some time in the minors, some sort of platoon or part-time playing arrangement in the majors, and a move to the bottom of the order where his inconsistency won’t be so greatly exposed.

By DesiBrave

July 24, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

You are right Shaun.., They don’t need to win all those 24 games…, You are right that winning around 40 not necessarily those 24 is good enough.

Lee just don’t believe Chip .., We all know he

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Is it true that Hampton is pitching on Saturday against the phillies?

Read something about Hudsons elbow……….says that he doesnt thinks he wil miss his next start………any updates on that?

What about Chipper………his didnt look that bad either…….will he miss the whole series against phillies?………..well at least there is Prado or Infante to cover for him………..its not like we have to insert Orr or Woodward.

By Renegator

July 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Question of the day:

Bottom of the 9th - winning run is in scoring position with two outs. In other words - the game is on the line. Who would you rather have come to the plate?

Kelly Johnson or Jeff Francoeur?

By cbt

July 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

How many people think we need to get a conditioning coach that can help this team get past all these pulled muscles and tweeked arms ect. This is p** pour stretching and poor workout programs that is causing these guy’s to get hurt. Get rid of this sorry GM and Managers who have not produced anything but a below average team for three years. When they got rid of Leo is exactlly when it started. Sorry but Atlanta fans deserve a quality baseball team that has passion and spunk. If you notice the bench when when we are at bat, everyone looks like they lost a loved one. You have to get off your wallet and get some players who are talented instead of working with average kids. This is do or die for this program. We have to go with whats best for this franchise and let Bobby, JefF, Kellie J, Tom Glavine,CORKY MILLER TIME, Mark k, Hampton for new bat boy because nobody wants this money sucking desease near thier program. Their are a few more but its getting to depressing writing all these below average players in a couple of sentences. Make it happen!!

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

OK gang………..we are 1 game behind pace……….we need to sweep the phillies or win 2 out of 3…………..winning 1out of 3 will put us 2 games behind the pace for the 2nd half………..meaning we would have to sweep the cards or win 3 out of for from them and then sweep the next series…………

Talk about pressure.

By timthebrave

July 24, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Will, I told you I was drinking the kool aid but I’m a die hard fan that easily forgets the bad and focuses on the positive. The trade Chipper ideas are terrible. Why would you trade the best player on your team? Have you seen our record when Chipper doesn’t play?TexasBrave, I agree 100%….I’ve had coaches that helped me over the years and coaches that were awful. In all my years of playing baseball I can’t blame any of my stikeouts on the coaches. You don’t think TP and Bobby are telling Francouer…”If you see a high fastball swing for the fence but if you see a curve a foot outside in the dirt try to pull it. Coaches always get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. JMO.

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Braves need the phillies to win today…………since we are going to beat the hell out of them on weekend…….we rather have them in 1st place and not the mets that will also be taking advantage of our massacre.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

If we win 40 games, but go 0-9 against the Phillies, I have a hunch we won’t catch them.

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Their are a few more but its getting to depressing writing all these below average players in a couple of sentences.cbt

Not nearly as depressing and flat-out torturous as it was reading that post. Thirty seconds of my life I’ll never get back.

By Francoeur available???

July 24, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080724&contentid=3187051&vkey=newsmlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Scroll down to “Purpose Pitches”. Does Jim Molony know what he is talking about?

By STRETCH

July 24, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Doc,

They really need some healthy players(Chipper being out did not help) and some breaks(after the first half, they gotta get some!). That lineup has got to show up and hit the ball, with Philly(they have owned the Braves this year), St Louis(P** cause they got swepted by the Brewers), and speaking of the Brewers….they are really hot right now.

They have a chance to make it interesting, but they ALL must play better. Point blank.

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Lew, good point about Chipper and DH. Why some believe that would keep him healthy escapes me. Most of his injuries — hamstring, groin, quad — had nothing to do with defensive position; he was hurt running the bases or coming out of the batter’s box. Even the bad foot thing a few years back, occurred as he took his first step out of the box.

By 1957 Braves Fan

July 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I am rooting for Hampton to to make his comeback a shut down of the Phillies. Let’s get him some runs to work with!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

brent a., no matter how you define clutch, I don’t believe there is any batter who is significantly better or worse in clutch situations than overall, given enough plate appearances.

You seem to be basing your idea of clutch on key hits. Problem with that is that any major league player (or maybe a not-so-decent player) has a chance to have a big hit or a big moment. Does that mean he has more of a magical ability to hit in the clutch more than another player?

Any player who can perform consistently well at the major league level is a clutch player.

Reggie Jackson and Kirk Gibson were talented players and they came up with big moments. Those players came through in some clutch moments. I don’t think that means they have some magical ability to perform well in the clutch.

By Lew

July 24, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I’m not saying Frenchy is, was, or will ever be the offensive force that Albert is-quite honestly, Pujols is an exceptional player-one who comes along every ten years or so, IMO. I actually think Frenchy is a victim of over expectations and the curse of the Sports Illustrated cover. Had we been led to believe he was another Pat Burrell, no one would be anywhere near as upset with him like they are for having a prolonged slump.

BravesFanInRockies-I hear what you’re saying, but I think you’re indulging in an overreliance on those particular stats (and yes, I can hear Shaun foaming at the mouth). What really matters-the ONLY thing that matters-is that Frenchy did indeed, lead baseball in two out RBI’s, not once but in both his two full years and Albert did not. THAT is the telling stat and nothing else. VORPs, Badabings, OPS+ and whatever park adjusted bull manure is immaterial in that particular case.

I repeat-If he could do it for those two years, then at age 24 he could well do it again. THAT is what past performance tells us-not that he’s ready for the scrap heap as so many seem to believe

Those are the only points I’ve been trying to make. I’m fully aware his season has been an exercise in futility-I’m not blind. I realize his mechanics are totally destroyed and he needs to get his head back into the light, shall we say. However, dumping him would not only be premature, but foolish in the extreme-especially trading him for a perennial fourth outfielder like Nady as conventional blog wisdom maintains.

By Lee in S GA

July 24, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Lee just don’t believe Chip .., We all know he

DesiBrave

That is the one reason I brought it up on here. I knew “”Shaun** would be the one likely to respond and he did. LOL. But thanks guys because it did not sound exactly correct to me either unless they got me confused going around in circles talking about it.

By timthebrave

July 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

The Braves are 9-2 in games I have been to this year. If I could just go on the road…hmmm….The Braves need to hire me on. I could pitch as many innings as Hampton and I cost a lot less. I will even dress in cow suit to appease the Chik-fil-a gods that now own the Braves. I’m just saying. Go Braves!

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

This is DOB’s idea of a hard-hitting interview?Marc

Actually, no. It’s his idea of a blog. To paraphrase your claims about the word “truncate,” 90 percent of the populace also understands the concept of blogging.

You, however, apparently are in the other 10 percent.

By McFann :Ô:

July 24, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

bobby’s cox (Why no caps, man?)—

Thanks. I stole that line from a movie (Night at the Museum…hilarious movie).

Braves2249—

Yeah yeah…I saw that game…

Francoeur available???—

I saw that article, too. I won’t believe till I read it from somebody I trust.

By You got to be kidding me

July 24, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Will all you AJC people quit finding apologists for Bobby Cox? Yes he had a 14 year run in the postseason but only one title to show for it… and he had what some would consider dream teams during that run! All his players love him because he babies them and gives them little cute pet nicknames (Smoltzie, Frenchy, Chippy, Texy etc…) The young talent is here, we just need someone to manage it correctly!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Who would I rather have up with the game on the line, Johnson or Francoeur?

I’d rather have Johnson simply because he’s the more talented hitter. It’s as simple as that. No need to dig up who has been better with 2 outs and RISP or anything like that. Just give me the most talented major league hitter available to me; and that is Johnson over Francoeur.

By Gil In Mechanicsville

July 24, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

cbt You’re and idiot…

By Lew

July 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

TimtheBrave-Maybe we should chip in and get you a season ticket.

Unfortunately, they’re only 1-2 in games I’ve gone to-but they did have two of the best pitching performances of the year at those games (Jair and JoJO in Toronto).

By Hampton will Never Pitch

July 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Some of you hardcore Francoeur defenders are beyond absurd. You guys have swallowed so much Kool-Aid that it’s not even funny.

Comparing Francoeur, one of the game’s two or three worst everyday players and certainly the NL’s worst regular right fielder, to Kelly Johnson, who despite his recent slump still has stats that rank him as an above average offensive second baseman is ridiculous.

Francoeur was bad in 2006, mediocre last season and is frickin’ awful this season. His big “breakout” season last year is tantamount to Kelly Johnson’s supposed sub-par season this season. And again, he’s a CORNER OUTFIELD which is NOT offensively comparable to second basemen. It just goes to show how you braindead Francoeurbots have lost all sense of reality.

And finally, Kelly Johnson or Mark Kotsay should bat above Francoeur. Say what you will about either of them, but I’ve never seen them produce the kind of at-bat Francoeur produced on July 22, 2008 with the bases loaded and no one out. Francoeur in that at-bat bailed a struggling pitcher who just walked the bases loaded out by repeatedly hacking at neck-high fastballs. Johnson and Kotsay wouldn’t have given Vanden Hurk such an easy free-out like that. To be fair, they may have made outs too, but unlike Francoeur, I bet you it wouldn’t have been so easy as to just throwing really high fastballs and watch the hitter (Francoeur) strike himself out. Johnson and Kotsay have better plate-discipline than that.

By MAV

July 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

N9 For a worthless reliever, he usually pithces just as long when he comes in as JOJO does when HE STARTS. Please explain how he is getting experience when he is out of the game in the second or third inning consistently. He is not part of the future of this team and will never be. Heck Jeff Bennett is another option that would be better. JOJO needs a clue!

By Mike Hampton's Vajayjay

July 24, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Chipper as a DH? Is this your first time to watch baseball?

DOB - any new news on Huddy? Are they going to send OhNo Reyes down if Hampy returns as scheduled? As I type this I’m guessing you’re probably not at the clubhouse this early but find out what you can for us please and thanks.

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Id rather have Campillo or Hudson with the game on the line than JF…………thats how bad he is RIGHT NOW.

By The Goche

July 24, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Mad Men on AMC, with season premiere of the latter this Sunday.dob

that show, is in fact, amazing. my roommate and I watched all of last season on demand in 2 days.

By Jonathon

July 24, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

By David O’Brien July 23, 2008 9:19 PM Yep, it just might be time for Hampton to be thrust into the rotation with no more rehab or bullpen sessions (and thus no more chances to get hurt)

But DOB, he still has to warm up. Plenty of opportunity to blow something out right there. Isn’t that how the pec injury started in the first place?

By STRETCH

July 24, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Found this on SI.COMM

Teixeira could go … but not for nothing The secretive Braves aren’t saying whether they’re buyers or sellers. But people around baseball wouldn’t be surprised in the least if there was a deal just before the deadline involving star first baseman Mark Teixeira.

The Braves are apparently trying to gauge their chances to contend now, and that’s understandable since they’re in the unimposing NL East. Even so, their chances don’t look so hot from here, at seven games out and in fourth place. With all the injury problems they’ve had (is Mike Hampton ever coming back?), most baseball people ultimately believe reality will set in and Teixeira will be moved.

The Braves won’t be able to come close to recouping what they gave to Texas last summer to get one year of Teixeira (Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Matt Harrison and Elvis Andrus). But they’d easily beat two draft choices, which is all they get if he leaves as a free agent.

Angels GM Tony Reagins understandably laughed off the absurd report in a Minnesota paper of third-base prospect Brandon Wood and utilityman Robb Quinlan being the whole package to go to Atlanta for Teixeira as the babble of “bloggers.” (good line, though some bloggers actually do great work).

As former Oakland GM Sandy Alderson once said about a rumored trade of Jose Canseco (back when he was a 40-40 man for the A’s and before he became a disgrace) to the Yankees for something like Roberto Kelly, Mark Hutton and Sam Militello, that package doesn’t rent Teixeira for a weekend. Someone will probably wind up renting Teixeira for the final two months, and it may yet wind up being the Angels. But it’s going to take a lot more than that.

By TexasBrave

July 24, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Johnson or French? Johnson right now. French if he ever wakes up from his nightmare.

By David O'Brien

July 24, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

you got to be kidding me (12:24): who should we ask about him that will give us a critique that you would approve of? because frankly, interviews and conversations I’ve had in recent weeks with people in the industry, from players to broadcasters, from his competitors to his employers, are not yielding responses that I think you and other fire-Cox folks here would like.

Or should we just quote fans and bloggers as the only counterpoint opinions? I mean, this is your forum, as is the vent, etc. Do you also feel your views should be expressed by people in the baseball industry, and if they don’t agree with your views, then we shouldn’t quote them?

I was talking to Ohman about something entirely unrelated. About possibly being traded. I then asked him about Cox, as a direct result of people here on the blog bringing up the subject. If you’d prefer, I just won’t ask anyone about him. Would that be better?

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 24, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

I’m just hoping that the Phillies were focusing so much on the Muts that they forget to bring their “A” game to the series tomorrow night. Very possible.

One thing’s for sure - the Braves will need to bring their bats to the offense-happy Phillies stadium. Not having Chipper in the lineup could really hurt their chances with that being the case.

And one more thing - if you had told me in April that Gregor Blanco would be the Braves best performing outfielder (my opinion) come late July and that the Braves would only be six games out of first… I’d have said you were crazy.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Now you are defining clutch as “magical” ability.

Again, “your” definition of clutch.

First, it was “significantly better” in the clutch than the rest of the game.

Now, it’s “magically” better.

Long before I was aware of your existence, I was well aware of statistical sampling.

I am still saying, that if you watch the games, there are some players who have the penchant for stepping up in big moments, while others don’t. There are even some “statistically” good players who have stepped up better in key moments than other “statistically” good players.

Alex Rodriguez is a good example of a player who seems to have every skill one would need to be the best player in the game; yet in multiple Octobers, he has fallen short. I realize that if you look at his post-season numbers, they are not over-all, strikingly lower than his regular season numbers.

However, if you look at his Yankees post-season numbers, starting with the 2004 LCS, you can see evidence of a guy who is cowering under the pressure of playing play-off baseball in New York and consistently falling short.

And that is where the discussion of a clutch player comes into play. It’s not just how you do playing a meaningless game in Kansas City in August. But rather, it’s how a player is able, or unable, to handle the pressure of the big stage.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Lew, 2 out RBI is the only thing that matters in the discussion? Really? You’re joking, right?

Doesn’t matter how many times Francoeur came up to the plate with 2 outs (in 2007, 242 times versus Pujols’ 229). Doesn’t matter how many times Pujols was intentionally walked (10 times versus 2 in 2007) or walked (48 versus 18). Doesn’t matter how many times Francoeur came up with 2 out, RISP (98 versus 54).

No, none of that matters. All that matters is that Francoeur had more 2-out RBI than Pujols.

Unbelievable! I seriously wonder if you are just disagreeing on purpose so that the point that Francoeur wasn’t necessarily the better hitter in two-out situations can be revealed.

Also, I love the, “You’re stats are poo-poo but my one stat means everything.”

By nolie

July 24, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

References and Resources As a reference, here is a list of each team’s Win Shares Age this year. Win Shares age is essentially a team’s age weighted by the contribution of each player (as measured by Win Shares). There are several youth movements to note: the Giants are 3.2 years younger than last year’s team, the Twins are 2.5 years younger, the Dodgers are 2.3 years younger and the Rangers are 2.1 years younger.

Team WSAge MIN 25.7

TB 25.7

ARI 26.2

OAK 26.4

FLA 26.7

WAS 27.0

LAN 27.0

CLE 27.2

KC 27.2

TEX 27.2

ATL 27.3

PIT 27.4

LAA 27.4

COL 27.4

MIL 27.8

CIN 27.9

BAL 28.0

SF 28.1

STL 28.1

SEA 28.3

CHA 28.5

NYN 28.6

SD 28.7

BOS 28.7

CHN 28.9

DET 29.2

PHI 29.2

TOR 29.3

HOU 30.8

NYA 31.6

By Braveheart

July 24, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

I’d rather have Johnson simply because he’s the more talented hitter. It’s as simple as that.

Is Johnson really the more talented hitter of the two? I’m not seeing it. Francoeur has a higher career average and has more power. KJ can draw a walk but not as well as he used to be able to. Maybe I’m being silly but you’d think that if KJ was simply the more talented hitter, he would have more power and a higher career batting average than Francoeur. Johnson is not a more talented hitter. He’s a more talented pitch taker. Whoop-de-damn-dooooo!

By DesiBrave

July 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Lee in S GA

Chip is most disgusting guy that I turn the volume down when he speaks. He probably scores a 0 on the IQ tests.

Anyways here is one simple scenario to prove what he said is not right.

Braves will play 3 against phillies , 4 against St Louis, 3 against Brewers. So lets say they go 9-1, phillies and mets have a 5-5 record in the next 10 games then Braves are within 2 games out of the first place. So they will have 51 games left to gain that 2 games. So even if braves go 32-19 in the rest of the stretch and mets and phillies and marlins play 29-22 that is 7 games above 500. Mets and Phillies are currently 7 games above 500 so my assumption in the current scenario is that they keep going at the same rate, braves will still win the divison by 1 game.

so in other words Braves can still make it to postseason with a good streak in the next 10days

I know all this looks easy on paper and practically very tough but we have the chips (not the carays but jones’) in place. Hudson, Jurggens, Campillo , Morton keeping the good work and Braves hitters believe in themselves that they can do it and provided we wont trade Teix and instead get a solid bat to help them we are in it .

Point to be noted I am not counting on Hampton so if a miracle happens and he starts helping the team then that is a bonus.

By geauxbraves2000

July 24, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Good morning all, unless you are in EST, then good afternoon.

I too would prefer KJ over JF with the game on the line, as Shaun says he’s the more talented ML hitter.

Okay, let’s say Hampton actually pitches, and he pitches well, injury free, wins a few games and looks like he could fall back into a #3 or #4 roll. If you are the Braves, do you offer him an incentive laden contract for ‘09?

Geaux Braves!!

By JB

July 24, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

you got to be kidding me

Bobby calls Chipper Chip. Not Chippy.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, doesn’t matter how many players, coaches, GMs, other managers, writers, broadcasters express admiration and respect for Cox, some won’t be happy until they hear someone say that Cox is awful. Some are not interested in the truth. They are interested only in their own assumptions about what Bobby Cox is as a manager.

By Devil's advocate

July 24, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Okay,you’ve defined blog.

But-honestly-how many serious and pointed questions have you thrown out there the last three seasons? Like almost every other media member you are intimidated by Bobby Cox and risk getting the cold shoulder by a player if you get too down and dirty.

Outside of New York, Boston, and Philly a beat writer almost has to be part writer/part p.r. guy. It’s the nature of the beast.

By jrjags

July 24, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves are looking to trade Frenchy now. His value has never been lower, and he still has the tools to turn it around. Will he? That’s the million dollar question, but he’s still cheap for several years, giving the Braves time to figure that out. What would you get back for him? Little to nothing right now. More time in the minors makes more sense to me than a dump trade.

DOB, do you think that the injuries to Chipper and Huddy might tip the scales to sell for Wren? I know they aren’t considered very serious, but they are probably the two guys we could least afford to lose. Any DL time for Chipper would sink the Braves ship for good.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

This season, rigth now … I’d rather have Kelly Johnson up than Jeff Francoeur.

Francoeur is a head case right now.

By sri

July 24, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Another frustrated fan’s random rants…

I blame these Braves for the majority of grey hairs on my head.. What do you folks think is the role of the coaching staff on a team? It is easier in the case of veterans.. The coaching staff just needs to tweak a few things here and there.. But in the case of younger players does’nt the coaching staff have more responsibility? The general philosophy of the Braves coaching staff seems to be ‘Let the players figure it out for themselves’. They seem to take a more passive approach then the other teams in the league (I may be wrong about this, but from what we read on the news, that is the impression I have). I think most of the bloggers here who are frustrated about Frenchy, fear it is going to be a repeat of what happened with Andruw. We all seem to agree that though Andruw had 10 productive seasons as baseball player (both offensive and defensive), he could have been a much better hitter (more well rounded), and the general perception is the coaching staff was’nt forceful enough to make him change his approach. But we hear a lot more about pitchers changing/redefining their mechanics than hitters changing their approach. Maybe it is easier for the pitchers than hitters. I have never played baseball so those who have played the game.. Any thoughts?? Even in the Braves organisation, we have more instances of the pitching coach helping players(vets and younger players, both Leo and Roger) , but not as many hitting coach success stories. Is it that because the journalists dont report them? Or is it harder to coach a hitter than a pitcher?

But I think Frenchy’s slump and out offenses in-consistencies, highlights the fact it does’nt make baseball sense for the Braves to tie up $20+ in one player. I think Wren’s job got tougher that now he has to have a backup plan in case Frenchy does’nt rebound. I dont think we should give up on Frenchy yet, but he should build the lineup to compensate for Frenchy/Kelly’s inconsistencies and Chippers injuries each year.But it is too early to discuss about next year anyways..

By Bench Stenchy

July 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

From MLB.com:

The Braves haven’t completely shut the door on dealing certain players. They will listen to offers for Jeff Francoeur and Will Ohman and some insiders expect Teixeira to become available if the Braves have a bad week.

Oh please, oh please, oh please trade Francoeur.

By Show me the money

July 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, what will Francouer get in arbitration next year, and do you think it could get ugly if the Braves make a offer lower than he wants? Arbitration is a tough situation, because the team has to bring up the negatives to justify why an offer is lower than the player wanted.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

brent a., I’m saying just because a player has come through in big moments doesn’t necessarily mean he has some skill or ability to come through in big moments. I’m saying that overall talent and ability is more meaningful than whether or not a player has done something before in big moments.

I’ll take A-Rod over most other players in a big game, even one in October in Yankee Stadium. I’ll trust his abilities over looking at what he’s done in the post-season with the Yankees. And my guess is if you had something on the line, you would go with A-Rod over most other players, also.

And, have you looked at what A-Rod has done with the Yankees in the post-season? His OBP is .372. His SLG is .436. That’s in 113 PA. I see nothing that would lead me to believe that A-Rod chokes in the clutch. Maybe some of his numbers being off are a result of him choking, but I believe it’s more likely because of the size of the sample. But if you want, I’ll let you have Jerry Willard or Mark Lemke in October and I’ll go ahead and take A-Rod.

By Doc Holliday

July 24, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

The question is…………out of order…………

I mean………..Trying to compare KJ and JF is ………..I have no words…………

Right now the only question that would be worth thinking about would be………….who would you rather have up with the game on the line……….CORKY, JEFF OR GOTAY?——————Other than that, I see no argument we could have with JF hitting.

By Quack Quack

July 24, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

While maybe not conforming to your perception or expectations of what clutch hitting is, before his current slump, he was The Man to have up in those situations. This is also why I, for one, refuse to give up on the guy. He’s done it before-he can do it again.Lew

I didn’t say he didn’t come through in the clutch those two years, he was. But it is a stat that as it increases it gets closer to the players norm. He is not clutch this year and that will in fact bring his numbers back closer to his normal hitting. He might turn around again next season and hit better in the clutch or he might not. I’m not sure why you think I was picking on Jeff, when the discussion I was referring to was general in nature. But i guarantee you that he never averaged .500 to .667 in clutch situations which was the point I was making. His clutch stats those 2 years were between .256 and .330 or so, which was within an understandable range of his normal ability, somewhat higher and likely to decrease some as he got more ABs in those situations and his sample size grew. I get that you don’t dig stats and that you don’t agree with Shaun mostly, but like he says there are few if any players whose performance in a large number of clutch situations is markedly different than their mean production.

By TennesseePaul

July 24, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: Johnson is not a more talented hitter. He’s a more talented pitch taker.

You type that as if drawing a walk doesn’t knock in a run from second? C’mon. We all know if you get a ton of guys drawing walks the sport is that much more fun to watch.

By GT80

July 24, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, is it true that when Hampton comes onto the field his intro music will be Johnny Cash’s version of “Hurt”.

God that would be awesome.

By RedEyedAndBlue

July 24, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

I think first and foremost, Devil’s Advocate/YGTBKM, a sportswriter/journalist in any market, whether it be Des Moines, Atlanta, or one of your precious three exceptions (Chicago is a much bigger market than Philly, btw), has to sell or help sell newspapers and their internet site with interesting stories. And the success of this blog and the fact that you are writing on it suggest to me that DOB is doing quite nicely.

By Lee in S GA

July 24, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

At present time I do not have a whole lot of confidence in Johnson or Frenchy. I suppose Johnson. My only thought he is more likely to draw a walk and give another batter a chance. But then I suppose that would be Frenchy batting behind him in the line-up…….so I would lose there also.

By N8

July 24, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Quack Quack

“Too bad all that work was wasted on a ridiculous concept that a hitter should succeed 67% of the time in clutch situations.As Moby replied, that concept is so wrong as to be ludicrous.I ‘m not surprised by such idiocy from N8…”

OK. If you are referring to ALL of my posts as idiocy, fair enough. But if you are lumping me in with the comment about the .667 success rate in “clutch” situations.

I’m NOT in that frickin’ category.

FOR THE THIRD FRIICKIN TIME FOR THE PEOPLE THAT CHOOSE NOT TO READ, OR ARE NOT CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING SARCASM……..I WAS BEING VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SARCASTIC WHEN I STATED THAT I DEMAND A HITTER TO HIT .750 WITH RISP!!!!

Like I said. If you’re generalizing my “idiocy”, so be it. You’re entitled to your opinion.

But if you’re lumping me in with that “crowd” based on a sarcastic post, then you sir are and idiot.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, Francoeur is clearly more likely to make an out. And if that happens, the game is over. So I’ll take Johnson with 2 outs, 9th inning.

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, again, Francoeur is more likely to make an out. And with 2 outs in the 9th, an out ends the game.

You go ahead and worry about whether the game is fun to watch. I’ll worry about whether I give my team a chance to actually win.

By brent a.

July 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I did look at A-Rod’s post-season numbers with the Yankees, and referenced that in my post.

But, start with the 2004 LCS and go forward. Take those 75 at-bats, watch them even, and tell me with complete sincerity that they don’t look like a guy who is starting to feel the pressure of post-season failure as a Yankee.

You took his entire body of work, which is fine. But, 75 at-bats (and his lat 75 at-bats, for that matter) is still a very nice statistical sampling, and they show a guy who appears to be struggling under the scrutiny of the New York media, marriage problems, his break-up with Derek Jeter, and most importantly, continued post-season failure. It’s real.

Yes, A-Rod is good, and he seems like a good guy to have on your team in the World Series.

But, I’d rather have Reggie Jackson or Kirk Gibson than A-Rod, if you give me the choice.

By Random

July 24, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Glass half full time:

Joe Posnanski on Joe Blanton going to the Phillies (we’ll get to see how that works out this Sunday.)

(The linked article also goes on and on about converting former Brave (MiLB) SS Tony Pena, Jr to a pitcher.)

Even now, long after Moneyball, there are still those in the game who seem entirely dismissive of those little things called statistics. [Pay attention, Jack G, you anti-stat boy, you.]

I know this to be true because last week, Philadelphia traded two prospects for pitcher Joe Blanton. Now, let me say, it’s not impossible that Joe Blanton will pitch well for the Phillies and be the difference-maker down the stretch. He’s pretty young, experienced, he’s pretty young. And all that. He’s pretty young. It’s not impossible. It’s also not impossible that the phone ringing in the kitchen right now is a call from Bruce Springsteen asking if I want to join him on tour, you know, just to hang out. It’s not impossible, but you will note that I’m not getting up to answer it. If it’s Bruce, he’ll call back.

And “not impossible” is just about as far as I would be willing to go on the Blanton deal. It COULD work just like that essay for history class you made up at 3 a.m. the night before COULD get an A. But it won’t work. If you take a cursory look at Blanton’s statistics, sure, he’s 47-46 and his career ERA is 4.27. OK, average pitcher — almost the definition of an average pitcher. His numbers were pretty good in 2007 (14-10, 3.95 ERA) and they have been lousy this year (5-12, 4.96 ERA). He’s a control pitcher who doesn’t strike out many and who gives up hits, but he does sink the ball so he doesn’t give up a lot of home runs. Fine. Average pitcher. Well, those guys can help you.

But is he really an average pitcher? Well, as a GM, you might take more than a cursory look at a players statistics. And if you look closer — Blanton isn’t an average pitcher. He’s a pitcher whose numbers LOOK average because he has been pitching in Oakland, probably the best pitcher’s park in the American League, maybe in all of baseball. Take a look at that 2007 season again, in split form:

Home: 2.69 ERA, batters hit .227/.256/.308 against him.

Road: 5.11 ERA, batters hit .304/.337/.438 against him.

That looks a lot different, doesn’t it? His career splits are not quite as dramatic … but dramatic enough …

Blanton at home: 3.79 ERA, batters hit .258/.304/.386 against him.

Blanton away: 4.78 ERA, batters hit .290/.337/.438 against him.

This year, he made six of his 20 Oakland starts away from home. Still, the numbers are about the same …he’s still allowing about one run more per game.

Home: 4.63 ERA.

Road: 5.73 ERA

Houston, we have a trend. OK, now, let’s go to the second part of the equation: Philadelphia is one of the WORST pitchers parks in the National League (or one of the best hitters parks, if you prefer). Last year, it was the easiest homer park in the game by a longshot.

Is this really a mystery? Do we really wonder what will happen? … Seriously, what do you think is going to happen when Joe Blanton pitches for Philadelphia most days? Where would you bet your money?

By N8

July 24, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“brent a., no matter how you define clutch, I don’t believe there is any batter who is significantly better or worse in clutch situations than overall, given enough plate appearances.”

What do you do for a living? I’ve never asked, because it’s never mattered. But I’m curious.

Have you ever been sports, at ANY level? Have you ever been friends with anybody that’s played high level college ball (football, baseball or basketball…hell….ANYTHING), do you know anybody that was ever in drama, or played in a band?

ANYBODY that has done any sort of “entertainment”, knows that there is “pressure” situations that are different than any other moment, even though the “actions and motions” you are going through are EXACTLY the same as the ones you did yesterday or last week.

For instance, I’ve been playing guitar for 20+ years. Been in bands for about 17 of that. I can tell you that there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in playing your setlist in a small bar that holds 250 drunk people, and playing as an opening act at an outdoor festival, where some of you idols are standing 25 feet to your left watching you play guitar (along with the 10,000 people in front of you).

Are you telling me that the “nerves” and human emotions are a NON factor, and there is no difference in an AB in April against a kid that is making his major league debut vs. an AB against Mariano Rivera with the tying run on 2B in game 7 of the WS?

You could type a 2000 word essay explaining your opinion of why there is “no difference” in situations and that players are either good hitters or not.

But you’re NEVER gonna convince me that MLB players don’t get nervous, or have their adrenaline pumping a little more with the game on the line.

Some people thrive in the pressure, some people cave.

Human nature, dude. They’re not robots.

By Tomas

July 24, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Man those Mets are looking very, very sharp. Their only concern would be the outfield and the bulpen. But the new manager and pitching coach has helped them a lot. I thought they have no chance. Now I see them as a team that is taking off.

DOB, with chipper injured who would bat third? Mac or will cox consider Tex as an option.

By TheAntiMe

July 24, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I would like to address a little matter that Terence Moore wrote about the Braves signing Barry Bonds for the rest of the year. Sure, I can see it now. Barry Bonds’s head has gotten so big, literally, over the past few years that if you were to put him in a Braves jersey he would almost certainly be mistaken for Homer The Brave. Can you imagine the total public relations disaster the Braves would incur the first time he tells a six year old girl to go bleep herself when she asks him to pose with her for a photo.

By Shamus Thacker

July 24, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

The Bravos should buy fire insurance on Hammy. He could become too warm during warm-ups and spontaneously combust.

By Random

July 24, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Quack Quack: “Too bad all that work was wasted on a ridiculous concept that a hitter should succeed 67% of the time in clutch situations.As Moby replied, that concept is so wrong as to be ludicrous.I ‘m not surprised by such idiocy from N8

And I think N8 was totally serious too — he hasn’t recanted anywhere that I have seen.

;->

By Joe

July 24, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

how about this trade- Frenchy,Lilbridge,JoJo,Brandon Jones and pitching prospect for Bay and Nady

By Braveheart

July 24, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, Francoeur is clearly more likely to make an out. And if that happens, the game is over. So I’ll take Johnson with 2 outs, 9th inning.

At the most important moment of the game, you would rather have your six hitter take a stroll to first and pass the responsibility for getting the run in from second on to the guys hitting at the bottom of the order?

Two outs, bottom of the ninth, man on second, down by a run, the six hitter up, I want the hitter who is more aggressive, hits for a higher average and has more power. Francoeur does that more than KJ. I really don’t want strolls to first base which causes me to entrust the fate of my team to inferior bottom of the order hitters such as Blanco, Thorman, etc.

By bravos2249

July 24, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

No, none of that matters. All that matters is that Francoeur had more 2-out RBI than Pujols.

Pujols was walked more in this situations….IBB or unintentional IBB….that means Pujols is more feared.

He did well but you can’t say anything about stats like walks not mattering.

For example: Tex has 10 more rbi than walks….and Chipper has more walks than rbi.

By LT-AA Blogger

July 24, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

DesiBrave,

While I admire the optimism, believing this team can go 9-1 in the next 10 against the Phillies, Cardinals, and Brewers resounds delusion (or crack pipe).

Anyways….

I don’t see any team in contention trading for Franceour, so it’d have to be a team already out. What would the Braves want in return? It’d have to be a package of minor league players. If it’s position players, I’d rather hold onto Franceour and see if he can turn it around next year. If it’s some highly rated pitcher (ing) prospect (s), trade the dude.

I think the Braves at best win 1 game in Philly making Tex as good as gone next week. Some team is gonna sweeten the pot I think.

While I think the seasons more or less done, I am enjoying watching Jurjens, Morton, Reyes, and Campillo. I’d rather not see Hampton or Glavine come back this year- let the youngsters cut their teeth and be ready for next season.

By ernesto

July 24, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

GT80 - “DOB, is it true that when Hampton comes onto the field his intro music will be Johnny Cash’s version of “Hurt”. God that would be awesome.”

Now, that’s both “funny like a clown” funny and “funny-not-like-a-clown” funny all at the same time.

Well done, sir!

By Shaun

July 24, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

brent a., don’t know what numbers you are looking at. His OBP is .372. His SLG is .436. That’s in 113 PA. He hasn’t been bad enough for me to justify taking A-Rod over someone else. He hasn’t been bad enough in a large enough sample to say he lacks an ability to come through in the clutch.

I’ll let you make all sorts of presumptions about his marriage and relationships with the media and Jeter. I’ll let you assume that 113 PA means a great deal. But I’ll look at his skills and abilities as a baseball player and go with that.

If media pressure, marriage problems and all that haven’t caused him to perform at least somewhat poorly in the regular season, why do you assum