AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 21 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTrading Tex not as simple as some think
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Raise you hands if you thought that on July 21, the Braves would be opening this series in Florida with the Marlins playing for a share of first place and the Braves contemplating trading away a star this late in the season for the first time since, well, since Dale Murphy was traded away on Aug. 4, 1990?
And keep in mind, Murph was nearing the end of his career and didn’t object to being shipped away given the Braves’ situation in that last season before The Run began a year later.
Mark Teixeira is not near the end of his career, he’s 28, right in the middle of his peak years.
But that’s where the Braves are today, at least six games behind three different teams in the NL East, coming off a terrible pair of losses against Washington at Turner Field over the weekend that might well have pulled the lever on the Teixeira (and Will Ohman) trade machinery.
It’s not the 6-1/2-game deficit that makes a postseason push such a formidable task for the Braves at this point. Plenty of teams have overcome deficits greater than that in less time than there is remaining in this season.
No, it’s the fact that there are three teams with 6- or 6-1/2-game leads over the Braves in the NL East that makes this just about an insurmountable task. Because the Braves have let three teams build significant leads on them, they now are not in control of their own destiny by any stretch of the imagination.
Because now the Braves would have to hope that not one, not two, but three teams would all struggle while, oh yeah, they themselves finally put together a solid run of baseball.
Stranger things have happened … but not too many stranger things.
That miserable homestand was exactly what the Braves did not need if they wanted to try to convince anyone, including GM Frank Wren, that they had a realistic shot at turning this around and reeling in the division leaders.
Don’t know if Frank decided at some point during yesterday’s four-error debacle that it was time to ramp up trade talks, but wouldn’t surprise me (this is not something he’s going to discuss publicly, for obvious reasons; if the Braves want to trade Teixeira, they’d prefer other teams to think they’re not desperate and wouldn’t mind holding on to him and trying to re-sign him, etc.)
Oh, for those who’ve asked me if the Braves have any hope of re-signing Teixeira, or even plan to make an offer: I don’t know, but I get the distinct impression they are not planning to go down that road.
Just from conversations with people connected with the team in various capacities, I haven’t heard anything since spring training to make me believe they’re thinking of, or have talked to him or agent Scott Boras about, a big offer to keep Tex here.
Some who’ve talked to Boras about it say he’s sent signals that he’ll ask for $22-23 mill a year in an eight-year deal for Tex. Good luck with that. Can’t see that happening. But if anybody is capable of getting him more than most of us believe Teixeira is worth, it’s certainly Boras, who plays one team against another team, or one offer against another supposed offer from a team that nobody can pin down and many observers will often doubt actually exists.
He’s turned that into art. Offseason art. Not the kind of thing you can pull off in midseason, which is why you don’t see Boras doing the window-to-work-out-a-contract-extension thing with his clients. By that I mean, if the Braves had a deal with, say, the Angels in place that depended upon the Angels first coming to an agreement on a long-term contract extension with Teixeira, well, I can’t see Boras agreeing to do that. Can’t see that at all.
Because what team would he use as leverage? What offer could he say he’s received from this team or that, in July?
No, the way it works is when Boras gets his clients this close to free agency, he takes them all the way through to the process, where he can work his magic and somehow, some way, usually get his clients more money than we think seems plausible.
Is Teixeira, with his Gold Glove-level defense and likely .290-30-120 to .310-45-130 offensive range for many years to come, worth $20 mill a season? I’d say only to a team that has a huge payroll, at least $150 mill or so. Not to a team with a $100 mill payroll, because while he piles up stats, he’s not a player, at least from what I’ve seen, who puts a team on his back and delivers big hits when the team needs it most.
Say, for instance, during the first six weeks of this season, when the Braves were dealing with a slew of injuries and Chipper Jones was carrying the offense with help from either Brian McCann or Yunel Escobar, but not much from Tex.
Slow-starter or not (and he’s a slow-starter, every season), the Braves needed to count on him for power and RBIs, and didn’t get it on a regular basis until about two months into the season, when they were already back in the standings.
Even yesterday, his two-homer, three-RBI game didn’t have much impact, seeing that both homers were solo shots, one early in the game when the Braves were already down 6-1, and the other, well, I’d have to look it up, it was so relatively meaningless near the end of an utter blowout loss.
Anyway, this isn’t to downplay his skills or output. Both are unquestionably big. He’s durable and piles up stats, year after year. But I know an impact offensive player, a player whose performance seems bigger than his numbers because he gets so many key hits. And I know the opposite.
A-Rod, for instance. Dude piles up huge numbers, year after year. Tremendous numbers. But let me ask you, how many SportsCenter highlights can you remember this year of A-Rod late-game homers or walk-off hits? Maybe a couple or few early on, but lately?
A-Rod’s the highest paid player in the game, and many will tell you he’s the best player in the game. But he’s not the player I would build a team around if I could have any player. No way.
And Teixeira will probably become one of the top-10 paid players, maybe top-five, but honestly, I can think of at last 10 other NL players I’d rather build a team around.
Tex probably will, and should, play on a big-payroll team like Boston or the Angels, a team where his money won’t be the subject of constant scrutiny every time he doesn’t come up with a big hit. A team that has plenty of other big bats.
The problem becomes, however, trying to trade him and get value in return. Because honestly, how many teams out there do you think fit the bill to trade for him right now? That team would presumably have to 1. Be willing to pick up the $4 mill or so he’s owed the rest of the season; 2. Not care that they probably can’t be assured of re-signing him (see explanation above); and 3. Be willing to give up a young player and/or prospect or two to make it worth it to the Braves to trade him.
Because if you’re the Braves, unless you can get, say, 1B/3B Kevin Youkilis from Boston (I can’t see that happening unless Big Papi wasn’t returning, and he’s about to return) or 1B Casey Kotchman and another mid-level prospect — Chone Figgins would be even better, but that seems highly unlikely —- from the Angels, or something similar from another team, then is it really clearly in your best interests to trade him?
Or might you decide to take the draft picks — a first-round and a sandwich pick b etween the first and second rounds — and keep Teixeira the rest of the year, maybe hold out hope that the marketplace for him won’t be what he thought or he likes it so much in Atlanta that he’d take less to stay (also unlikely; the man seems to be all business, not much emotion or sentiment, when it comes to baseball).
Having said all that, I’ll bet that if Wren pulls the trigger on a deal, it’ll be a solid trade for the Braves. He really is sharp in the deal-making aspect of the business, has proven that over the years both as a GM and as an assistant GM who had a lot of responsibilities.
We’ll get into Will Ohman later. Needless to say, several teams will be ready with offers for a top-flight veteran lefty reliever at the deadline. But right now, I’ve got to get ready and get out to Dolphin Stadium.
The East co-leading Mets and Phillies are idle tonight before starting a three-game series Tuesday in New York, and the Marlins are a half-game back. That means at the end of the night the Marlins are either going to be in a three-way tie for first place and the Braves seven games behind all of them, or the Braves are going to be six games in back of first-place NY and Philly.
Etc: During his 0-5 skid over his past five starts, Jo-Jo Reyes has posted a 7.65 ERA and .353 opponents’ average, and the Braves have scored a total of one run while he’s been in those five games. They scored zero runs while he was in four straight games before getting one run while he was in yesterday’s loss….
Jeff Francoeur’s .288 OBP is the fifth-lowest among NL qualifiers (minimum 3.1 plate appearances per scheduled game), and Gregor Blanco’s .315 slugging percentage is fifth-lowest among league qualifiers….
In order to finish with a plus-.500 record in this crucial nine-game stretch, after dropping two of three to Washington the Braves would have to go 4-2 against the Marlins and Phillies on this trip. Keep in mind, they haven’t had a winning trip all season….
Braves outfielders have 20 homers, fewest in the NL. Next-lowest total belongs to Dodgers outfielders (24)….
Teixeira is hitting .379 with a 1.293 OPS and 41 RBI in 31 day games, and hitting .229 with a .689 OPS and 31 RBI in 65 night games….
Francoeur’s skid continues unabated since his return from a three-game stint in the minors, but he’s hardly the only Braves hitter struggling. Kelly Johnson has hit .234 in his past 40 games with two homers, 13 RBIs, 27 strikeouts and a .665 OPS…..
Speaking of Francoeur, he’s hit .157 (13-for-83) with one double, one homer and four RBI in his past 23 games, with four walks, 21 strikeouts and a .436 OPS. He has more errors (three) than extra-base hits in that stretch.
OK, enough misery. Let’s loosen things up with a good tune.
”GRINGO HONEYMOON” by Robert Earl Keen
We were standin’ on a mountain top
Where the cactus flowers grow
I was wishin’ that the world would stop
When you said we’d better go
We took a rowboat ‘cross the Rio Grande
Captain Pablo was our guide
For two dollars in a weathered hand
He rowed us to the other side
CHORUS:
And we were dreamin’ like the end was not in sight
And we dreamed all afternoon
We asked the world to wait so we could celebrate
A gringo honeymoon
We stepped out onto the golden sand
The sun was high and burning down
Rented donkeys from an old blind man
Saddled up and rode to town
Tied our donkeys to an ironwood tree
By the street where the children play
We walked in the first place we could see
Servin’ cold beer in the shade
CHORUS:
We were drinkin’ like the end was not in sight
And we drank all afternoon
We asked the world to wait so we could celebrate
A gringo honeymoon
Met a cowboy who said that he
Was running from the DEA
He left a home, a wife, a family
When he made his getaway
We followed him on down a street of dust
To his one room run-down shack
He blew a smoke ring and he smiled at us
I ain’t never goin’ back
CHORUS:
We were flyin’ like the end was not in sight
And we soared all afternoon
We asked the world to wait so we could celebrate
A gringo honeymoon
He said there’s one last place that you should go
He took us to the town’s best bar
He knew a crusty caballero
Who played an old gut string guitar
And he sang like Marty Robbins could
Played like no one I’ve known
For a while we knew that life was good
It was ours to take back home
CHORUS:
We were singin’ like the end was not in sight
And we sang all afternoon
We asked the world to wait so we could celebrate
A gringo honeymoon
We were standin’ on a mountain top
Where the cactus flowers grow
I was wishin’ that the world would stop
When you said we’d better go
Services »
Comments
By Original Jon
July 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
First?
By Matt
July 21, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
First? Start up the sale, baby. It’s over.
By tomahawk Kris
July 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
1st?
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
On XM a little while ago Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus said the Braves a closed door team meeting with Frank and he said that the Braves will not be sellers and that they will be buyers if anything. He then went on to say that he spoke to players after the meeting and they said Frank said Tex would not be traded and that they hoped to re-sign him.
I’m a little skeptical that kind of meeting took place. Maybe a team meeting but certainly nothing where Frank is giving out re-signing Tex statements. I think Carroll needs a follow up email from DOB.
By Random
July 21, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
If Bobby Cox continues to refuse to play his best available players (eg, starting Norton/Prado Sat rather than Kotsay/Johnson; starting Miller Sun rather than McCann; playing Francoeur everyday rather than Blanco, Jones or even Infante), and continues to haphazardly mismanage the bullpen, then
YES
Yes, yes, yes
Bobby Cox should retire or be fired immediately.
I’m on board now. ++++++++++
ncscoots: “I get it now…Doc Holliday….is really just….Overlord in….disguise. The KJ stuff is a dead giveaway.”
Well, yeah — duh.
He was quite open about the name change for about a week or so last month (23-26). **Like here, for example.
Btw … what’s with … all the … ellipses? You look like you’re constantly out of breath, like the black kid on Malcolm in the Middle. You okay, sport? +++++++++++++++++++++
BravesFanInRockies —
Completely agree with you.
And let me add — it should be clear to everyone that TEX* himself is going to choose the team he plays for, not Boras.
Tex is paying Boras to negotiate with the team(s) that Tex decides he wants to play for.
And Boras is going to get him the best deal he can with a team Tex has identified — which is not necessarily limited to monetary considerations. Think duration, think no trade clause, think performance incentives, think options, think freebies (tix, etc), think obligations to the club (appearances, etc), etc, etc.
By BamaBrave
July 21, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
“Better you than me, Frankie baby!!!! Better you than me…” - John Schuerholz
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
sixfourthree, from you question at end of last blog: I’d probably go Full Metal Jacket as my favorite war movie (and that Eastwood one a few years back was great, the first of the two he did in succession).
As for Generation Kill, to me it’s a whole different thing that Band of Brothers. Not romanticized, just gritty, realistic, warts-and-all look at these guys, some who want to be there, others who don’t, etc. Love it. LOVE. IT. Great show.
By N8
July 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
EXCELLENT Blog DOB
I don’t disagree with anything you said about Tex (Not that you give a NY Rat’s azz - LOVED that comment last week - about my approval of your opinion). You hit the nail right on the head. Well done.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
It’s Tractor Pull time at The Ted!
By SeaFighter HSV
July 21, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Why not move Hudson too? We’re already punting this year and next. Who else has value? I’d move Soriano if there are any takers. Lock up Gonzo long-term.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels: That’s not accurate. I’ll leave it at that. His info might be a few weeks old.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 21, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
The trade market for Teixeira is lukewarm at best. But, the health of Big Papi could change all that in an instant. For Atlanta to trade Tex before July 31st would amount to an admission that trading for him in the first place was a mistake.
Seventeen teams are still in playoff contention, the Atlanta Braves are not one of them. Watching the job performance of Bobby Cox is like seeing an old Circus bear performing the same tired tricks, somebody needs to put the ancient Dinosaur in a Museum where he belongs.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Welcome on board Random …….. dont be afraid……disliking Cox is perfectly normal……..youll feel better now……take a sit and be ready to move up as we are expecting company.
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 21, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
I am also totally enamored with Generation Kill. Awesome show. Definitely disturbing watching the storyline progress to when a bunch of these likable guys get killed. What’s even worse is that it is really happening and not much attention is being paid to it because ‘death toll is down’….whatevas.
By Anders
July 21, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Wow! DOB basically calling Tex a compiler. Man have the mighty fallen in Atlanta. Frenchy is being treated like a leper these days and now the skids are being greased to send Tex packing by DOB himself.
BTW- the Yanks have climbed right back into it and Big Papi has shown signs of life. Oh well, doesn’t sound like the sellers market Tex could have been thrown into a couple of weeks ago. The pipe dream of a possible playoff push might very well have cost the Braves an additional prospect in a deal to one of those teams panicking. Hey, but what do I know. Right DOB?
By Shaun
July 21, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
A-Rod’s the highest paid player in the game, and many will tell you he’s the best player in the game. But he’s not the player I would build a team around if I could have any player. No way.
DOB, I think this is right because of A-Rod’s age and salary (although this doesn’t matter to the Yankees). His career clutch numbers are just fine, so I don’t think it’s about big hits or anything like that.
Same with Teixeira. Same with a lot of other high-paid players or players who can command a huge contract.
The system is such that by the time a player is eligible for free agency, he’s likely going to out-earn his production by a fairly significant margin.
But this is also a great equalizer for the most part because a lot of teams are going to make the mistake of signing a big name instead of signing a player based on the production he is likely to provide.
About the only teams for which this doesn’t apply are the Yankees and Red Sox (and maybe the Angels to a lesser degree). Those teams can afford to overpay for free agents because they can afford to cut them lose or bench them if the overpriced player becomes so unproductive that he shouldn’t be playing regularly.
If I’m a Yankee fan, I’m glad the Yankees got A-Rod. He does make them better. It’s blunders with signing older pitchers, ignoring the farm system, and injuries to younger pitchers that have caused any problems the Yankees have had; not A-Rod.
By Braves in the year 2020
July 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Cox, K.J., J.F. and Blanco free. Times will be a lot better then.
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 21, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB…when I heard him say it it didn’t sound like he was believing what he was saying, or that he hadn’t been paying extremely close attention to the Braves. Yeah, probably old material…
By Frank
July 21, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
I think what the Braves need to do is figure out if they are going to compete with the big boys(mets,cubs,sox) as far as payroll, or if they are going to be a small market club. If the Braves were owned by someone who actually had an interest in the teams performance maybe we would have an answer. Instead the past few years we are in a situation of letting quality players go(Mahey,Furcal,Millwood,Drew)who are vital to contenders because the Braves “can’t” afford them. Being a “mid-market team” creates situations like trading Wainwright to St. Louis for Drew(unable to resign) and all those prospects to Tex for Texiaria(looks like we won’t be able to re-sign him). If only Blank could have bought the team…
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Random Btw … what’s with … all the … ellipses?
I’ve been wondering that, too.
By Barrington Garland
July 21, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
TOP 10 REASONS FOR BRAVES FAILURES THIS SEASON:
By bigchiefrg
July 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
I sure am glad we let Freddi Gonzalez get away. Terry Pendleton will make a much better manager without a doubt and Bobby has managed circles around him thus far(thick sarcasm).
By JB
July 21, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Random.
Infante is hurt. How exactly do you suppose Bobby can go about playing him in place of Francoeur?
By ernesto
July 21, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Note to all “fire Bobby Cox” drum beaters.
We got it. You don’t like Bobby. He should be fired. He sucks. Worst manager ever. Overrated. Badly mismanages everything. Only won 1 WS ring. Holding the team back. Picks his nose.
Okay. Do you have anything else to say? It’s the same freakin’ post day in and day out.
Don’t you get tired of typing it?
By Shamus Thacker
July 21, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Highly informative blog DOB, fine fine job!
In the present economic climate/crisis, ANY team would be CRAZY to offer ANY player $12,000,000 per, let alone 22.
That’s not negativism, that’s reality.
By Shaun
July 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
For Atlanta to trade Tex before July 31st would amount to an admission that trading for him in the first place was a mistake.
Coach, At this point, why is it much different if they trade him on July 21st or 31st?
By Random
July 21, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Glavine mentoring young lefty Reyes: “When Reyes takes the mound during Sunday afternoon’s series finale against the Nationals at Turner Field, he’ll be looking to utilize many of the tips he received while throwing Friday afternoon’s bullpen session with both Glavine and John Smoltz present.
“Once the session was complete, Smoltz, who underwent season-ending shoulder surgery in June, and Glavine walked through the stadium’s tunnel with Reyes, and before entering the clubhouse doors, they took time to demonstrate some of the mechanical suggestions they had made.”
DOB: “During his 0-5 skid over his past five starts, Jo-Jo Reyes has posteed a 7.65 ERA and .353 opponents’ average”
By BravesFanInRockies
July 21, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Frank,
Ownership has changed since Furcal, Millwood and Drew were around.
Failing to keep “Mahey” isn’t why this year’s edition seems stuck in neutral. And last I checked, Kansas City isn’t contending for anything.
By Pamela Y Jones
July 21, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox has managed with what little he had to work with this year and last year.
He has called up everyone except the bat boy and milk man to try to put something together.
The quality of players has to be a factor somewhere. with the injuries and DL stints it is a wonder we showed up to play at all.
If any of us on this blog can go out there and hit a fastball of 90-95 or change-ups, I’m sure he would give us a try too.
Every team in every city cannot be the number 1 team. We have had it made for so long I think it is more difficult and harder to take inside for Atlanta fans.
By Paddy McGillicutty
July 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
It seems like the Braves are loaded with young talent but they are just HIGHLY inconsistent. And it seems like it’s never 3 or 4 guys hot to pick up the slack for the 3 or 4 cold. Instead they’re either all hot or all cold. I know we have a young team, but really how young are they? Francoeur is in his 3rd year, KJ is in his 3rd year as well, Diaz is his 3rd or 4th year, McCann, yes 3rd year, (not that he has been a problem area just saying). Those guys are all getting enough service time, seeing these NL East and other NL pitchers enough to gain some consistency instead of these wild fluctuations. Hell, someone needs to find a way to get through to these guys, take extra BP, watch more tape, tell them to relax more, whatever it takes because, if anything, it affects their arbitration negotiations and hits them probably where it hurts the most. I think we’ll all agree Francoeur has probably cost himself $3-5MM this year.
I’m not of the belief of being one of those “fire all the coaches” when something bad goes on. However, when our players fail to improve consistently year after year when most do, continue to have such drastic peaks and valleys, and call their daddy’s when they need some tips instead of going to the Hitting Coach (maybe because his approaches don’t work, hello!), maybe it is time for a change? I think it would be great to trade Tex for not just a huge power corner IF bat, but maybe for some prospects and a proven leadoff guy. Seems like the only ones getting on base consistently are the 3&4 guys which brings up 6,7, 8 in the lineup w/ people on base as opposed to Chipper, Tex, McCann coming up w/ the 1 & 2 on base. I think a Tex trade to LAA which I STILL say is highly unlikely has to include Chone Figgins. I would probably do Tex for Figgins and N. Adenhart and put Figgins in LF full-time. I think the Angels show you don’t necessarily need a lineup full of big boppers to get to the playoffs and compete there. You just need 1 or 2 capable of the home at any time and the ONLY thing this team lacks: CONSISTENCY!!!!!
By TheCutMan
July 21, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Let me start by saying that Mr. O’Brien’s comments from yesterday’s blog where he characterized Frank Wren as a ‘brother’ character in the Trading Places film from 1983 made me roll over with laughter. Too good, and it wasn’t lost on me.
I think those draft picks for Teix are probably the best move for the Braves for a couple of reasons. They most likely won’t get comparable return in a trade, (But, sometimes teams do get desperate), and at least Teix gives them some credibility with the home attendees and is there should they go on ‘THE RUN’ (Tyrone character in DC Cab…back at you).
By Crazy Stats Katz
July 21, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
The Braves are so full of it when they claim they don’t pay players big money. They have a track record through the years of paying Maddux, Glavine, Andruw, Chipper, Dale money back in the day that is equivalent to $30 million dollar contracts today when you consider a 10% annual baseball money inflation rate. Heck, in 2001, they even offered Arod the same exact contract that he signed last winter.
Dale Murphy - 7 years, $16 million from 1985 through 1992. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 7 years, $221 million.
Greg Maddux - 5 years, $28 million in 1993. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 5 years, $145 million.
Greg Maddux - 5 years, $57.5 million in 1998. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 5 years, $174 million
Tom Glavine - 4 years, $34 million in 1997. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 4 years, $116 million.
Chipper Jones - 6 years, $90 million in 2001. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 6 years, $200 million. So spare me the nonsense that Tex shouldn’t be paid more than Chipper. Tex ain’t asking to be paid as well as Chipper was 8 years ago.
Chipper Jones - 8 years, $125 million in 2001 when you consider the the two $15 million option years in 2007 and 2008 and the $5 million dollar bonus if the 2007 and 2008 option years vested. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 8 years, $277 million.
Andruw Jones - 6 years, $90 million in 2002. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 6 years, $180 million.
Alex Rodriguez - 10 years, $126 million offered by the Braves in 2001. The equivalent contract in the upcoming free agency market is 10 years, $277 million. Isn’t that the contract he signed last winter?
Schuerholz and the Braves are so full of it. Boras is exactly right when he says Schuerholz has a short term memory with the way he selectively forgets how much he paid his stars in the past. Corporate ownership blows. They turned The Homeboy Upstairs into a delusional liar …. and a hypocrite.
Homeboy, when revenues increase in your sport, it’s only fair to give a corresponding increase in the share of those revenues through increased salaries to the players who make that money for you.
By Novice Ned
July 21, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone yelling? Just because the Braves are making plans fall vacation plans, there is no need to scream and be rude. Geez!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Contrary to popular belief, the Braves do have the Red Sox over a barrel. The Sox bullpen is suspect beyond Jonathan Papelbon and they know Will Ohman is available.
By Paddy McGillicutty
July 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Francoeur cost himself $3-5MM for the coming year I should say, 2009. I’m sure he will still be considered a Super Two if he puts up the numbers he has thus far.
By N8
July 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Why is everybody YELLING at each other on the blog.
Oh. Wait. The text is accidentally coming up bold.
Never mind.
By Random
July 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
JB: “Infante is hurt. How exactly do you suppose Bobby can go about playing him in place of Francoeur?”
I said if Bobby Cox continues to field inferior players.
I know Infante’s out now, but he’s eligible to come back tomorrow, and will probably be activated then.
Anf then “if Bobby Cox continues to field inferior players”, etc, etc.
Kotsay could move to RF, Blanco and Infante CF/LF.
By rammerjammer
July 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for an insightful article.
You know, I really wonder if Bobby Cox has had enough of it. I mean, this weekend was MUST WIN, and his guys lost two of three and looked really bad doing it. It must make him sick.
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
trade chipper!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 21, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
At what point do you say it might be the hitting coach that is the problem? Looks like the Nats have straightened out Langerhans’ swing… No toe tap. upright stance, shortened stroke… DUH!!!
By Jimmie "BO" Horne
July 21, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Cox needs to be whipped like a stubborn mule and showed the door. I have to turn my head every time the camera zooms in on him. Can’t take it any more. Man oh man this team needs someone to inspire them.
By semiballcoach
July 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
maybe the braves could put jo-jo in right and frenchy on the mound and improve both positions…
By N8
July 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Novice Ned
You beat me to it.
By Anders
July 21, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
TheCutman
I think those draft picks for Teix are probably the best move for the Braves for a couple of reasons. They most likely won’t get comparable return in a trade,
Keep in mind draft picks (especially high ones like Tex would command) cost $’s in bonus money. If the Braves see a prospect or two they like who were already were paid their bonus money that might be more appealing to them than drafting new guys next year.
I’m sure that’s being explored by Wren and company too.
By Shaun
July 21, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
I think the Angels show you don’t necessarily need a lineup full of big boppers to get to the playoffs and compete there. You just need 1 or 2 capable of the home[run] at any time and the ONLY thing this team lacks: CONSISTENCY!!!!!
Paddy McGillicutty, The Angels have the 4th best ERA and have allowed the 3rd fewest runs in the AL. Without that kind of pitching, they would certainly need better than an offense that ranks 10th in the league in runs.
And the only thing this team lacks is consistency? Did you see the stats DOB posted on the outfielders?
The primary reason the Braves are out of the race is the lack of offensive production from the outfield. If they had gotten any kind of decent production from the outfield, it’s hard to imagine that they would not be in the thick of things right now. It’s as simple as that.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Braves are sending down Vlad Nunez to open spot for Soriano. I thought it might be Tavarez, but maybe his couple of scoreless innings granted him a reprieve. That plus they know he might decline the assignment, like he did with Milwaukee.
By NCBravesFan
July 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
DOB Do you get any vibes that the Braves might consider doing something surprising between now and July 31st … say trade Hudson for instance? Would hate to lose a guy like him, but he would have a lot of trade value for one thing … and you could make the case that there should be few “untouchable” players on a team that has been .500 for the better part of three years now.
It seems like it would never happen, but you see teams like the Twins, Marlins and A’s trading some big name people away and rolling right along year after year.
By Knowitall
July 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Crazy Stats, did you just crawl from under a rock? The Braves have been through two ownership changes since those contracts that you are citing were given out. Everyone knows that money was not a problem in the 90’s. But guess what, TED TURNER DOES NOT OWN THE BRAVES ANYMORE!
By Hoosier Aaron
July 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
In order for the Braves to get the two draft picks everyone keeps talking about - the Braves must be willing to offer Tex arbitration. I doubt he would accept - but we thought that a few years ago - and got hung. You have to believe the Rays are interested - this is their chance. The Yanks and Red Sox don’t want to miss the playoffs and let the Rays in. The White Sox see the Twins AND Tigers in the mirror. Hang in there - the phone will ring off the hook next week…we’ll get more than a bucket of balls for Tex.
One more thing - I have to agree with someone in regards to Corky Miller..what is up with that?
By Random
July 21, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
ernesto: “Note to all “fire Bobby Cox” drum beaters… . We got it. You don’t like Bobby. He should be fired. He sucks. Worst manager ever. Overrated. Badly mismanages everything. Only won 1 WS ring. Holding the team back. Picks his nose… . Okay. Do you have anything else to say? It’s the same freakin’ post day in and day out… . Don’t you get tired of typing it?”
Don’t you be puttin’ words in my mouth. Every bold word up above is yours, not mine.
If you want to defend Cox, why don’t you specifically address his handling of the bullpen and his not fielding his best players?
By rainman
July 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
ok heres my trade. trade tex to the rays for pena, gomes and a low level player with promiss. this gives us a first basemen with pop and a great glove for a couple more years a low risk of with a ton of power and gives the rays a huge bat to make a run which if you know anyone for tampa they would love to see their team do something like this. plus to make it work braves would have to pay difference in pay.
By AZBravoFan
July 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
That was a pretty disheartening weekend. I think what bothered me most was the team seemed to be playing better coming into the break, then had some time to rest and come out fresh in the second half against a horrible team. But what I saw was a team that looked completely rusty and unprepared. None of the 3 starting pitchers had any kind of command, including Mr. Hudson who just got lucky with some run support. Did they even pick up a ball over the break? Toss a couple off the mound? Sure didn’t look like it. And the offense seemed to pick up right where they left off. Squandered chance after squandered chance. I do feel bad for the starters. Especially the young guys. They know they have to be perfect with every pitch or they’re gonna lose 1-0. So rather than relaxing and trusting their stuff, they’re walking guys, hanging ill-advised breaking balls. And then when they seem to get it right and get some balls hit at people, the defense lets them down, Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz never once had to worry about their defense bungling it for them. Wonder if Glav. mentioned that in his little session with Jo-Jo. If these guys actually had some early leads to work with once in a while, they could throw strikes and be a little less fine, and probably a lot more successful. Just look at Odalis yesterday. That guy had nothing, but because he was ahead by so much, all he had to do was keep firing it in there (didn’t always do that either) and let the Bravos get themselves out. Betcha Jo-Jo could have slogged through 5 innings if he had a 10 run lead.
By fleming
July 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
One more fallacy to dispel. I totally agree that Corky Miller doesn’t deserve to major league job by his stats, but that said- the braves record when Miller starts is 8-7. Yes that’s right. The Braves actually are above 500 when he starts and below 500 with McCann. Just wanted to point that out.
By Shaun
July 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
At what point do you say it might be the hitting coach that is the problem? Looks like the Nats have straightened out Langerhans’ swing… No toe tap. upright stance, shortened stroke… DUH!!!
Gil, yeah, the Nats hitting coach is doing a fantastic job: 15th in runs, 16th in AVG, 15th in OBP, 16th in SLG. He’s great…DUH!!!
And Langerhans is slugging .356…just what you want from a corner outfielder.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Move Hudson??? we are still reinventing our rotation my man. 2nd comment I agree……….3rd comment…………..PLEASE LEARN SOMETHING OUT OF THIS SEASON……….Are you insane? Lock up long term a guy that just came off 1 year rehab? Give him 1 a 1 year extension and go from there.
*Barrington Garland *
Cheers, I agree on everything, except the numbers of HOF………it aint 3. Im not sure who are you counting but Id count Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Chipper, AJ played like one for 10 years and you might wanna add Hudson. So that doubles your total of HOF.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Y’know, I’m really dreading listening to the radio, and hearing Pete Van Wieren mention the Braves as “having a chance to play the spoiler role”, almost gleefully, as if it’s something to get excited about.
This could well be our last week to even fathom the thought of being contenders.
By N8
July 21, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
* Crazy Stats Katz*
For one. Of ALL of those guys mentioned, only Maddux was offered that contract as a player from another team (of the guys they signed), everybody else was being offered those numbers as “extensions”.
You know, rewarding guys that came up through the system and helped the Braves get to where they’re at (or where they WERE). Big difference in paying your own guys deserved money, compared to offering other teams’ free agents big dollars to jump ship.
As for A-Rod? The dude was THE prize of the 2001 off-season, and the money we offered him would have been a STEAL had he accepted it.
Also, I’m gonna call BS on the “converted” values of those contract numbers. NOT because you’re not correct in calculating the conversion rates and inflation and whatnot. But because THOSE contracts were given to players while Ted Turner owned the team and salary issues were NON existent.
The only way that those conversions are relevant, is if the Braves would “cap out” their team salary at the same rate. In other words, if LM were to allow a 200 million dollar payroll, then your numbers apply.
But dollars are dollars. When Chipper was given his 8 year 125 million dollar deal, that you claim is “worth” 8 years and 277 million, you have to realize that even with inflation and current market value, the Braves payroll REMAINS around 100 million.
So your comparison is a moot point.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
So, what could we expect Tex to get in arbitration?
That aside, I think the reason we “got hung” a few years back, is that you had Greg Maddux, (sort of) nearing the end of his career. This is Tex in his prime. Personally, I don’t see how waiting 1 year helps Tex get a bigger deal. Therefore, I’d expect him to decline arbitration.
OTOH, I’m sure Greg Maddux really enjoyed that huge payday he received in 2003.
By ernesto
July 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Random - Wasn’t addressing one person in particular, but I’ve yet to read a fire BC screed that isn’t soley based off something on that list.
If you don’t have a new take on it, why keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over again.
I find the logic a little mystefying.
But, hey, it keeps angry people at home typing and off the streets, so I guess it’s not all bad.
ps. yours falls under “Badly mismanages everything” - in this case player selection and bullpen..with maybe a little “holding the team back” as a garnish
By Sixth Grade English Teacher
July 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
**Many of the fine denizens on the blog are currently misusing a phrase. When calling another blogger an idiot, they following is not correct:
” Your and Idiot” this speaks of possessive form and should not be utilized and the d should not be on an.
It should be:
“You are an idiot” or “You’re an idiot”
Eg: “If you think Bobby Cox is still a competent and effective big league manager then you are an idiot” **
By DesiBrave
July 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
DOB,
In an recent interview Glavine said JoJo seemed to be better than himself and Smoltz when they were his age. He has quality stuff but doesn’t know when to use his pitches in what situations. Having said that Glavine also said that he didn’t figure that out till his first Cy Young season. So Jo Jo under the tutelage of Glavine could turn into a future Glavine.
So here is a Nostradamus Prophecy :)
with able support from Campillo for a few years I think we will have a pitching that could look like 1991 to 2003.
We may have to wait until 2011 for that to happen. Well who knows by then Liberty will sell Braves to someone like a TED with unlimited cap on the payroll and we repeat 1991 - 2003 in 2011 - 2023 ( I wish that streak wont end in 2023)
By N8
July 21, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Sixth Grade English Teacher
Try and keep up. If not, go away.
You sir, are AND idiot.
By Cecil34
July 21, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Whatever Tex winds up with for a contract in the future, he will be overpaid. I agree totally with DOB concerning his take on Tex.
Tex inspires no one in the clubhouse, he is not a leader and if anything, personifies the mercenary mentality that pervades MLB now thanks to a Mr. Curt Flood and free agency.
As DOB stated, Tex can put up some sweet stats, but they ring hollow when his team is 6 games under .500.
Not that Tex isn’t a nice guy, and a darn good ballplayer, but one man just doesn’t make the difference when the team is insufficient in several positions. Heck, I really wonder if any player is worth 20 million a year on a team, period. Therefore, common sense says it really doesn’t make good sense to pay him or anyone else 20 million a year.
Marketing on the major league level plays a huge role in creating the perception of competitiveness where there may be little or none. Due to the fact that MLB is a business and selling tickets and generating sponsor dollars is the name of the game, there may be a lot of smoke and mirrors employed to keep the $$ rolling in.
Admitting defeat is a little hard to do in the business of pro sports due to the fact that this admittance costs the team revenue. And you are doggone sure the teams don’t want to do it too early, even when it is apparent to everyone outside the organization.
Therefore some teams will make moves to make it appear they are trying to win now, not re-build, even though they know full well they need to do the latter to truly become competitive.
What does this mean?
It gives players like Tex more perceived value than he actually generates.
Why?
Because free-agency is the nail in the baseball coffin. Free agency has put the power in the hands of the players; it gives them leverage and has made the individual more important than the team. Baseball is a team sport. Free agency has driven up the salaries to ungodly levels. Front offices have been coerced into believing that they must pay these salaries to be competitive. That expense has been passed on the fans of MLB. The teams will sacrifice to afford one player. Or maybe a few players. It creates a revolving door of rosters yearly. Team continuity suffers. Management drifts from one strategy to the next because they cannot keep up with the constant player turnover.
The bottom line is we don’t need Tex. We don’t need to engage in any more rent-a-player transactions when we have much more than one position that needs addressing. The Tex deal is the textbook example of replacing the flat tire when the engine was blown. Braves Management knew it and prayed it would not become so obvious. That things would miraculously hold together. That a 14 year string of playoff participation would be enough.
Welcome to baseball 2008.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Crazy Stats Kat
Here’s what I would like you to do (if you have the time).
Instead of simply inflating the contracts of those players by 10% per annum, compunded, please actually look at their numbers, and see what they would be getting paid on the open market today, based upon their WAR (or whatever it is you were using last week).
It would be interesting to see if your inflation numbers hold up.
Thanks,
brent a.
By Original Jon
July 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Hey Sixth Grade English Teacher It’s an inside joke man, you don’t get it.
By bravos2249
July 21, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
JS isn’t the GM anymore though….it’s a whole new GM Boras would have to talk to…..
I’m not questioning Wren as a GM but 2 trades he made are sort of questionable.
I know you get players and etc. based on who you know,how you know them, and for how long, but the Renteria for Jair/Gorys had a BUNCH of connections…Wren worked w/ Dombrowski in FL when Edgar played there, so was it a SMART move on Wren’s part or an EASY one.
Also Kotsay was on the same FL team.
Coincidence, I think not.
By lewie
July 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
DOB
is there any chance of us getting loney from LA? if not, how could we get kotch + fuggin figgins?
i’d love to get figgins and kotch, i just don’t know how we could swing that if we couldn’t even get someone like loney + prospect or so
and the dude with the TB trade, i’m not so sure that they’d be willing to pull the trigger on something like that being as they have as much of a chance on resigning Tex as we do….that’s an lot to give up for the last part of the season
By monty
July 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
No one has yet to tell me why Tex would be willing to for-go millions to stay in Atlanta? Still Waiting….
By Hoosier Aaron
July 21, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
I would expect Tex to get a huge one-year contract. Does that help us? How?
Guessing on Maddux - cost us a solid starter as a result.
What did we get for Andruw Jones? Why?
In this day of huge contracts where the market for salaries like Boras is asking for Tex is VERY small you can’t “expect him to decline arbitration”. If you want to pay him - then do it…if not getting NOTHING is not an option…especially when you consider his price tag this time last year.
By nate
July 21, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
I don’t think trading Tex now makes the trade to get him a year a ago a mistake.
The Braves added Tex for two playoff runs. Neither happened, but that’s doesn’t make it a bad decision. It was a gamble. A calculated risk.
The Rangers took on risk too. They took on the risk that the players they got back would never turn into impact players.
As of today, the trade looks like a draw. Neither team got the better of the other. The Braves didn’t make the playoffs either year, but that’s not because Tex didn’t play as advertised. The players the Braves sent to the Rangers on the other hand have struggled. It does not appear that any of those prospects is going to bloom into stars.
By beekay
July 21, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Draft picks might not be best solution. No guarantee we will sign them and they cost a boat load up front in signing bonus(some are stretched out over time) Anders has a point, why not go after someone young who has that bonus already paid for. Throw in Ohman and I think we can get 3-4 decent prospects, hopefully one that can contribute immediately at 1st base.
By knowitall
July 21, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Why are some calling for the trade of Hudson????? I don’t understand this. Who anchors the rotation for the rest of this year and next year for that matter. I think some of you get a little too caught up into getting prospects for the future. The Braves have no reason to trade Hudson. He’s an ace and he’s cheap by today’s standards. Why on earth would you trade him?
I don’t know why you all go through the trouble of suggesting the Braves trade for young talent because if you were running the team, you’d just trade them after a couple of years in the majors.
By NCBravesFan
July 21, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday I think you can make at least some argument for trading Hudson - if not now, then after the season is over. Say Tex is not traded and then leaves after the season ends - you get two compensatory picks and that’s it.
So you’re left with a team that has holes in the OF and at 1B, plus a bevy of young, but talented pitchers. Outside of OUR prospects, who besides Huddy is tradeable at this point - at least for something that would shore up the offense and give the team a chance to compete in 2010 or 2011.
I’m not saying it will happen or that it necessarily should happen - but you can make a case for dealing Huddy this year to set yourself up down the line.
By skip
July 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
DOB- Thanks for the Tavarez update. As a Red Sox fan I became a big fan of his, if he used right I believe he can be a help to this team, plus he can be really entertaining to watch :)
By ncscoots
July 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I’ve been wondering that, too.
McFann, I answered that on the last blog, which is where that whole Random sequence should have stayed. Only that sad sack would think such witticism deserved re-posting.
You’re young, so, were I you, I’d try to avoid perusing posts from the likes of Random and Doc (who appear to be the nitwit brothers of different mothers). Liable to stunt your growth, otherwise.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
If it comes down to it, the Braves would offer Tex arbitration and if he can’t find a long-term deal with another club they’d probably accept paying him for one more season, even if if is at a rate of $18-20 million.
Frankly, I think he will find an acceptable long-term deal with another club. Even if he doesn’t, I don’t think that, in an emergency, Liberty will put Wren on the same fiscal diet that Homeboy had to live with.
By Original Jon
July 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Actually DesiBrave Campillo has been called a Mexican Greg Maddux. So there’s your three.
By bravos2249
July 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
knowitall
Some people don’t want to give Tex $ 20 million but they think we can sign CC or Sheets for scraps.
That’s why the whole Hudson thing.
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Nice blog. Gutsy, full of opinion. Well done DOB.
About TEX:
DOB’s right. No sign and trade. If you’ve looked at the available 1B free agents in the offseason, there’s absolutely no one available besides Tex. This is how Boras will get Tex more money than he’s ever dreamed. The stars are aligned if your Tex and Boras.
There’s no way the Angels trade Kotchman &/or Figgins with the season they’re having either, unless a sign & trade takes place.
The best option would be for Loney and a few prospects out of LA. The dodgers, like the Braves, have a lot of money freeing up this offseason, and even more after ‘09 when Andruw’s salary is off the books. The dodgers will be able to outbid everyone. I wouldn’t mind Loney in a braves uni. The dodgers also have a lot of good pitching prospects (outside of untradeable Kershaw).
By rupert
July 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
i miss ted turner and his money…
By AZ Braves Fan
July 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
AZBravoFan Are you planning on going to any of the games when the Braves are out here? I’m out in Gilbert. How ‘bout you?
By StingerSplash
July 21, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
So much for a weekend of splashing in the surf, gorging on Lowcountry boil and buckets of various Sweetwater Brewery products instead of watching the wheels, axle, drive train and other engine parts come off during the wretched weekend with Washington. Twenty-nine runs in three games against a team with one (one!) guy hitting above .233 in the lineup Friday night? Offense ain’t the only problem, but it’s a doozy. The San Diego series was the end of the beginning. The Washington series was the beginning of the end.
By rammerjammer
July 21, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
No team is going to trade for 60 games of Tex, and no team is going to get Tex to sign a new contract before he becomes a free agent. So, enough of the idiotic trade ideas. Face it, he’s ours for the rest of the year.
His greatest value now would be in what we could get in return, but that boat ain’t sailing.
Excuse me…isn’t.
By bravos2249
July 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
The Royals are actively shopping catcher Miguel Olivo*
He’s not an OF but a valuable RH backup catcher…he’s making 2.05 mill this year and 2.7 next year….100 G buyout
.255 9 hr 29 rbi 15 doubles
his CS% is .474 Corky’s is .500
I’d consider Olivo esp. since Corky will be arbitration eligible…and can’t hit
By Anders
July 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Monty
No one has yet to tell me why Tex would be willing to for-go millions to stay in Atlanta? Still Waiting….
Don’t feel bad, Chipper will be asking this same questions about himself for the next few years while Glavine counts the huge payout he got from the Mets and Tex collects twice what Chipper ever got.
Seemed like the right thing to do until you realize everyone else is leaving town to get theirs. I mean even AJ is making $18 mil per!
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Fleming—
Yes, it’s true the Braves have a losing record when McCann starts. When the team has a losing record, that happens. (They’re right at .500 when Chipper starts.)
However, in 2006, when McCann started, the Braves were 62-56, and their record for the year was 79-83.
But this year, since McCann has started so many games, with the team’s record being under .500 for the year, odds are it would be that way when McCann starts.
And let’s face it, I mean, McCann’s batting .246 with 18 RBI in losses…But that’s usually why a team loses, because the “Big Guns”, so to speak, aren’t doing their job. (Chipper’s batting .277 with 16 RBI in losses.)
That said—are you suggesting they play Corky more? I sure hope not…
ncscoots—
I’ll keep that in mind. ; >
By Alan
July 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Monty, Tex will not be willing to forego millions to stay in Atlanta. He’s as good as gone — to either NY team or either LA team. If I were the Braves, I’d trade him before the deadline, but problem is all they’ll get will be 2 or 3 prospects — far less (in quantity and quality) than what they traded away to get him a year ago. However, due to hubris or stupidity (or both), the Braves are not likely to concede defeat and trade Teixeira this month — unless they get swept by both the Marlins and the Phillies — and even in that case I wouldn’t bet on it. They’ll say they’re in the race as long as they’re mathematically in the race. Even when, like now, they’re really hopelessly, helplessly and completely out of it. It’s over, folks.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
The weird thing about baseball-reference.com is that it still doesn’t show that McCann made the All-Star Team this year.
Maybe the person in charge didn’t stay up that late.
; >
By Cooper
July 21, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
JOJO is sitting on the fence between the next Davies and a poor mans Glavine.
He is tilting hard towards Davies.
It sounds harsh but he is devolving back into the same painfully inconsistent pitcher he was in 07 and during Spring Training.
JJ - looks good but he also is too young to call. Better than JOJO by miles but that is all.
By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers
July 21, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Sixth Grade English Teacher: “Many of the fine denizens on the blog are currently misusing a phrase. When calling another blogger an idiot, they following is not correct:
“‘Your and Idiot’ this speaks of possessive form and should not be utilized and the d should not be on an.”
Pepperidge Blogs Remembers:
By Some Blogs Have Colloquialisms
February 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Coach sez: “The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get!”
DOB sez: “Fish tacos are the fondest things I’m of.”
ncscoots sez: “Your and idiot!.”
By ncscoots
February 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Some Blogs Have Colloquialisms, YAI was coined by a far better blogger than I (though his/her name is now lost in the mists of time). :-)
By YAI2
February 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
ncscoots—
Of course, I’m sure you’re correct, and what you say comports to a significant degree with my own memory of its evolution, but this post of yours from last Aug was the earliest appearance of YAI on this blog that Google could find, though it’s apparent from your use of it there that it already had cache by then.
Pepperidge Farms Comes To
Variations include:
“Ice and idiot” — repeat it 40 times.
By ronron
July 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Any updates on Dish Network picking up Peachtree TV feed of Braves games outside of the Atlanta market? I am in Jackson Ms market.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 21, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Jorge Posada may be out for the year; bad shoulder.
The Yanks were thinking of moving him to 1B in ‘09. Could they now be interested in renting Tex?
The plot thickens.
By DonCoburleone
July 21, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
I know its becomming quite common to just bash Cox on this blog now, and I am not going to do that… But, shouldn’t he be somewhat responsible for the way this team has played over the last 2 1/2 years? I mean, name the other teams in baseball with the same type of expectations as the Braves each of the last 3 years: Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Mets, Dodgers, Padres, Cubs, White Sox, Blue Jays… Of those teams, 5 of them fired the Manager somewhere between now and the start of the 2006 season (Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Padres & Blue Jays) and yet ALL of them except the Blue Jays have made the playoffs in either 2006 or 2007.
So when I disagree with people saying that Cox is terrible and an idiot and blah blah blah, I still kind of see their underlying point. Any other Manager in baseball not named LaRussa would be on the proverbial “hot seat” if they were running this team. But instead we just keep hearing Cox dictate to the team how much longer he will manage and I don’t agree with that. This team needs to start basing future decisions on the present, not the past. Its time for some new blood!
By CPA
July 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
nate at 4:22, If you invest in a stock(Tex) with an expected target price after 2 years and that stock price never materializes and you gave up a lot in the aquisition do you really think that is not a failure. Especially when you consider the ASSETS given up to get the stock(Tex) look like they are going to perform really well after your stock is GONE?? i’m going to say you don’t judge your own finances like this.
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Here’s a few quotes I found on Today’s blog and yesterday’s regarding our second base scenario. Since we’re talking about changes to the team, why not look at the 2nd base situation.
Kelly Johnson has hit .234 in his past 40 games with two homers, 13 RBIs, 27 strikeouts and a .665 OPS….. DOB
The braves are 6-5 in Prado’s 11 starts. They’ve scored 90 runs as a team in his starts (8.18 runs/game) and he has hit .311/.373/.422 in those starts. Tex says it’s Business
Anyway, this isn’t to diminish his skills or output. He’s durable and piles up stats, year after year. But I know an impact offensive player, a player whose performance seems bigger than his numbers because he gets so many key hits. And I know the opposite. DOB (on Tex)
I guess by that standard, Prado is an impact player. I wouldn’t mind the kid getting more starts. At this point, the braves have to put the better hitters in the lineup. With Escobar coming back,why not try Esco, KJ, and Prado in the lineup at the same time. Move KJ back to the OF. Bench Kotsay or Blanco, or Frenchy. We’ve tried Infante, Jones, Perry, and even Norton in the OF, so why not try KJ out there like it’s 2005? KJ and Prado hitting back to back lower in the order, working counts, building pitch counts, getting on base, wearing down opposing pitchers so the power can feast….would be a start to rejuvenating a struggling offense, IMO.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
The Braves are 7-6 when Corky starts.
We need more Corky.
By westy12
July 21, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
Sixth Grade English Teacher,
Today’s lesson:
i-ro-ny
noun, plural -nies
an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.
an expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
By CC1973
July 21, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
Unfortunately I believe it’s time to break out perhaps the greatest rhyme I’ve ever seen on this blog:
Put Frenchy on the benchy.
By DesiBrave
July 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Hey Cooper!
If you look at 1988 Glavine was 7-17 and Smoltz was 2-7
and in 1989 their records were 14-8 and 12-11
You don’t get to know about a pitcher’s future by just looking at one year…,
By fleming
July 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
McFann,
Wasn’t suggesting playing Corky more. Like I said he isn’t major league quality. Just using that for the stat crazies on this blog to show that in a small sample size like some here use, you can show almost anything. Using the sample size 0f 15 games Corky has started, It looks like the Braves would be 7 games over 500 and leading the division if he started instead of McCann. We all know that isn’t true but shows how stats can be made to prove any point of view.
By TB
July 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
I know my limitations, so I won’t attempt to talk baseball with you guys; I’m content to lurk and learn rather than be and idiot. Y’all are always entertaining.
Just wanted to tell DOB that I really like the song selection today. My 2nd favorite song (“Tom Ames’ Prayer” being first) from one of my favorite albums. Discovered Keen quite by accident years ago listening to the John Boy and Billy “Big Show”. The guy can flat tell a story. Proof of that, for me, is “Linville Train.” After the first listen, you know what’s coming, yet you don’t mind sitting through it again, and again, and again.
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
I won’t bash Cox on here either. Bobby is the face of the braves long 15 year success (1991-2005 including ‘94, and he will forever be shown gratitude by this fan for what he’s done for this organization.
Is Bobby responsible for this team’s lack of success? Absolutely.
Has Bobby’s team lost focus this year? Absolutely.
Do I think it’s time to move on from the Bobby Cox era? Yes i do, but as long as he’s signed, the Braves should honor their contractual agreement with the man that put this organization back on the map of the baseball world.
If the Braves so choose not to resign Cox next year and Cox wants to return for 2010, then the Braves should offer the man a spot in upper management. He should not be fired, and he should be given one heck of a going away fiesta when he manages his last game.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
CPA
You still have to see what the Braves get for Tex before evaluating the entire deal.
Unlike stocks, which are very liquid, and can be traded instantaneously at a very low transaction cost; professional athletes are much less liquid, and transaction costs are very high. Thus, at this point, it is hard to determine what Tex’s value is to the Braves, and we won’t know for at least 7-10 days, and perhaps as long as 4-5 months.
And even once that value is determined, you still have to look at the Tex trade in light of all the other deals that were made surrounding his acquisition, including, but not limited to, the ability to trade Edgar Renteria for JJJ, and also the ability to let Andruw Jones walk, as he pursued free agent $$$.
These deals do not exist in a vacuum.
By Random
July 21, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
ncscoots: *”Only that sad sack would think such witticism deserved re-posting… . You’re young, so, were I you, I’d try to avoid perusing posts from the likes of Random and Doc (who appear to be the nitwit brothers of different mothers).”
Mang, what’d I ever do to you?
No, seriously — let me know and I’ll do my best to make things right. We can go ninth steppin’.
What gives, anywho?
Doc Holliday—
Okay, so … what’s with … all the … ellipses?
You look like you’re constantly out of breath, like the black kid on Malcolm in the Middle. You okay, sport?
By bravos2249
July 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
brent a
In the other blog you asked about Jeff’s agent….I don’t know if it’s the same person but he’s represented by the same company as Smoltz and Cox……go figure with the whole Frenchy is our RF c.rap
By Seventh Grade English Teacher
July 21, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Please note, Sixth Grade English Teacher, that your use of “they” in the following selection is incorrect.
Many of the fine denizens on the blog are currently misusing a phrase. When calling another blogger an idiot, they following is not correct:
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
He should not be fired, and he should be given one heck of a going away fiesta when he manages his last game. BC
I wonder if he’ll get ejected?
By Alan
July 21, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Nate, earlier you said you would call last July’s trade for Tex a draw. It’s too early to call that one. The Braves gave up 5 players, all prospects, including our beloved Salty. Two of those prospects, Matt Harrison and Neftali Feliz, are very young pitchers. If my memory serves correctly, Feliz is a teenager. Last I checked, both were having very solid years in the low minors. I hate to admit that I forget the name of another teenager in the trade — a fast, slick-fielding short stop who was considered one of the Braves’ 2 or 3 top prospects last year. It is likely to be another 5 years — perhaps longer — before the true impact of that trade can be analyzed. At the time of the trade, I applauded it because the Braves made a very bold move. I still applaud it today despite the Braves’ disappointing record with Tex. Imagine how lousy they’d be without him.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Fleming—
Oh, I know you weren’t wanting to start Corky more. Stats are a funny thing to look at…
I just tossed some numbers up there that I found int’resting—like the fact that they, who were 4 games under .500 for the year, had a winning record when McCann started in 2006. Using the sample size of 118 games, it looks like they would have had a winning record if he hadn’t gone on the DL. It just sorta coincided with what you were saying.
But, I didn’t make myself very clear in that post, did I? Sorry.
By N8
July 21, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
Your 5:32 post was a thing of beauty. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I love and respect what Cox has brought to the table in the drafting and developing of the core group of players that began the run in 91. In other words, his work as GM was fantastic.
I even “get” and appreciate, the calm demeanor that he keeps (other than yelling at umpires), keeping his players at an even state of mind from game 1 through game 162. In other words, not TOO HIGH or not TOO LOW over the regular season.
That being said, I’m ready to move on. I too agree. The man should NOT be fired, and should be given a nice send off when he walks away.
I just wish that that send off was after THIS season, not the next…..or god forbid…..the next season after that.
Great post, well said.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Seventh Grade English Teacher—
Haha!! Good one!
By CPA
July 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
dave, what do you think of idea of a real Moneyball. What would the standings be if you calculated what each team’s win actually cost. divide team’s payroll by wins. yankees payroll 210,000,000 if they win 90 games that’s $2,333,333 a win. Twins payroll is around 52,000,000 so 90 wins compute to $577,000 a win. Shouldn’t brains count for something? Always get a kick out of Theo being called a genius. Dave if somebody gives you a 100,000 to shop on Rodeo Drive and i get 10,000 I would say you end up with a better wardrobe with main reason being you can discard the shirts you change your mind about and I have to keep mine. I bet at end of spree you will be judged the Metrosexual. Now let us change allowances and see who ends up looking suave.
By Alan
July 21, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
The teenage SS’s name just came to me — and it’s a classic: Elvis Andrus. Could be another Tony Pena, Jr. — or another Jose Reyes. Time, of course, will tell.
By brent a.
July 21, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
bravos2249
Thanks for the info regarding Molly Fletcher.
I had never heard of her other than over the last couple of years, when reading about Francoeur’s contracts, demotions, etc.
Here’s a link to an article about her.
molly fletcher played tennis for Michigan State
I really didn’t expect her to be quite this “famous”.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Escobar’s not in lineup tonight, but only because he and they wanted him to take full batting practice first. Last night he just hit soft-toss and tee balls for 15 minutes at Turner Field. Bobby misspoke after game last night when he said Escobar would be starting tonight.
By DesiBrave
July 21, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
As far as I remember the only time Bobby Cox got mad at one of his players was against Jorge Sosa when we played Cardinals. Sosa came out to release Horacio Ramirez with a 10-1 lead in the 6th inning or something like that and started walking batters and giving up runs. Bobby dashed on to the field almost hit Sosa in his fury.
You remember how Sosa responded that?
He hit a Homer in his next at-bat. Yes Sosa hit a homer after facing Bobby’s fury.
I wish Bobby gave the same dose to the current Braves team after loosing the series to Nats.
If that happens we are in line for a sweep of Marlins guys….
I am going to watch tonight’s game with that kinda mindset
BC please prove me right …. please
By bravos2249
July 21, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
brent a
I think Jeff switched to her this year…but the famous thing must be where Super Star gets it from
By N8
July 21, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
CPA
What about the guy that’s given $10,000.00 to work with, and spends that money on materials and seamstresses and builds his wardrobe from the ground up?
IE: Spend your money (initially) on scouts, coaching and player development, and teach good “baseball” athletes, how to play the game and play it together.
You’re totally discrediting the Twins ability to find talent, teach it how to play, keep it healthy, and then finally WIN with that talent. In the end, they have to get rid of it, because they can’t afford it (by choice - Carl Pohlad is one of the richest men in America - and certainly one of the richest pro-sports franchise owner), so they trade it off, and start the process all over again.
If there was a salary cap in baseball (NEVER gonna happen due to the strongest union in the U.S.), we’d all find out REALLY quick which organizations have the best scouting, coaching and player development programs, and the Yankees would be nowhere near the top.
Do you think it’s coincidence that the Braves have had a consistent stream of above average players coming up since 1991?
The higher payrolls allows teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels (and Braves in the 90’s), to occasionally “miss” on occasion with an acquisition and NOT affect the team. They just get another expensive player to replace the dead weight.
Look what having Hampton has done the last couple of years? What do you think would have happened had the Braves outbid everybody for Kevin Brown when he signed the huge deal with the Dodgers? It would have SUNK us. You think times were tough when Maddux accepted arbitration? He was able to still contribute after doing so.
There’s a reason that even when Ted Turner gave JS an “open checkbook” to get who he wanted, that he STILL combed the bargain bins, and trade fronts, rather than giving away money at a ridiculous rate to other teams free agents.
Of all the deals (free agents or trades) that JS made as GM from 91 to last year, only the Hampton deal can be considered a complete bust. And even that deal was a STEAL the first two years of the deal. So, technically, we got our moneys’ worth out of him, due to insurance picking up the tab on his injured seasons.
Name another deal that completely backfired. The only one I can think of is NOT trading Andruw when he had a chance before he was a 10/5 guy. But we certainly got our “money’s” worth on that Andruw contract, even with the horrible outcome of the final 1.5 years of the deal.
All having a bigger budget allows a team to do, is overpay guys that aren’t gonna help, more than the cheaper teams.
Look at the initial contract Arod got from Texas. 10 years 252 million dollars. The Braves offered 126 million. Think about that. Hicks offered 126 more dollars than the NEXT bidder did. That would be like somebody offering Andruw 72 million for two years, when the Dodgers were the next bidder at 36 million.
All of this nonsense and ridiculous money is relative to the Arod deal. A deal that didn’t have to go that high. 150 million probably gets it done.
So you tell me. If the Braves had signed Arod for 126 million dollars would that have been a “deal”, or was it still too much money?
It’s all relative.
By oletimerbrave
July 21, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
DesiBrave, I too am not watching tonight. The braves do better when I don’t watch. BC has the power to light a fire under these player, if he will just do it.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
*NCBravesFan *
Trading Huddy? once TEX is gone……….he is the only team leader besides Chipper. Mc is too young……….. Gonzo is in the pen ………..
*ncscoots *
Come on……….stop being a crying baby.
By Daybed Wagmoe
July 21, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
I can think of at last 10 other NL players I’d rather build a team around.DOB
I’d be interested in reading about who some of those players would. Care to share?
By Wayne
July 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
Don’t you have to want to win ” to Win” ?
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Mike Hampton and Tom Glavine are both throwing bullpen sessions tomorrow. What does that mean? It means trainer Jeff “Bubba” Porter could have more work in a half-hour in the bullpen than he had in a 15-inning All-Star Game last week when he was NL trainer.
By Earl
July 21, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
I’m as much of a Bobby supporter as anyone, but even I think it may be time to hang it up. The Braves are stuck in neutral now for three years and it isn’t looking much better. We could use someone younger with more energy, someone like Joe Maddon would be great.
Also, if we were to let Ohman go after the year, would we get two draft picks or one? If it was two I’d go ahead and keep him because those two draft picks would probably be worth more than whatever prospects we could get in return.
By CPA
July 21, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
N8
Think you missed the point, I WAS giving the Twins credit and was ridiculing the Yankees by the differential in what it costs each team per win. If you gave credit to spending money wisely the marlins, rays, Twins would have clinched division titles already. feel bad that you totally misunderstood the point I was making. In Moneyball League the Low Number teams win.
By N8
July 21, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
You gotta love the AJC.
One column’s headline from Terrance Moore states: Braves must keep Teixeira.
Another from Jeff Schulz says: Braves are sellers. Stating (like DOB - and MANY of us have said for 4 months, along with Rangers fans stating the same), that Tex is NOT a “difference maker”, for the main reason of trading him.
People complain about the blog being all over the place with ridiculous opinions and points of view. But hell, even the columnists for the AJC can’t agree on what the team should or shouldn’t do.
Freedom of speech baby! Gotta love it. What a BORING world it would be if everything was black and white and we all saw the same thing.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
Daybed, off top of my head: Albert Pujols, Hanley Ramirez, David Wright, Chase Utley, Lance Berkman, Ryan Braun, Russell Martin, Brian McCann, Alfonso Soriano, Ryan Howard.
And I didn’t even throw in a few pitchers I’d probably take ahead of him: Peavy, Webb, Zambrano.
By DonCoburleone
July 21, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
“Mike Hampton and Tom Glavine are both throwing bullpen sessions tomorrow.”
DOB, who is Mike Hampton???
By Tomahawkin
July 21, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
As always D.O.B. Nuff respect…for all the Braves fans who live outside of the “A” you’ve been like the braves diary over the lsst 3 some-odd years…
Any news on Mike Hamptons future…? Most of us on here have already figured that next years pitching rotation wll definitely be different from this years…
Also word of Mouf is that the Phillies are trying to go out and acquire Matt Holliday…I seriously don’t think that will happen, given that the phillies have a weaker farm system than the yankees, but that is the word of mouf from the phillies forum at philly.com
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 21, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
DOB at 6:37…now that’s good stuff right there!
By Crazy Stats Katz
July 21, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
If there was a salary cap in baseball (NEVER gonna happen due to the strongest union in the U.S.), we’d all find out REALLY quick which organizations have the best scouting, coaching and player development programs, and the Yankees would be nowhere near the top.
Actually, the total opposite would be true. The Yankees would have all of that revenue to burn. If they were prevented by salary cap restrictions from spending it on players on their team, they would dump all the money into scouting and development, giving them a ridiculous advantage. If you put a salary cap in, the Yankees will have academies in every nation in the world developing cheap talent for them. Be careful what you wish for. A salary cap without complete revenue sharing would defeat the purpose. But there will never be complete revenue sharing. Why would the Yankees want to share their money with cheap piece of crap corporate owners who don’t make more money because they don’t seek to maximize revenue streams.
By THWG
July 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
DOB Is it possible that with the Bucs interested in Lillibridge and the Braves interested in Nady, could we see a deal involving those two?
By MiamiBrave
July 21, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
DOB
Greetings from section 106 Row 2
Coincidentally wearing my navy jersey tonight
LETS GO BRAVOS! send me home happy
By matt
July 21, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
They just said on Channel 2 that Escobar is playing tonight.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
It means trainer Jeff “Bubba” Porter could have more work in a half-hour in the bullpen than he had in a 15-inning All-Star Game last week when he was NL trainer.
Good one!
By GSU-Lee
July 21, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, I would add to your list Jeter and though he is not quite as proven as several of the afore mentioned I like Prince Fielder as one of those gritty guys who can get some big hits for you. And what about Rollins or Santana?
By marty
July 21, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
did any of you think how bad this team would be if we let tex and ohlman go for prospects. lets worry about the future next year and enjoy what we have now. bc and tp are doing a fine job with all the injuries we have encountered this year. this team will put a run together before its over!
By Jeff R
July 21, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t build a team around any first baseman, third baseman or outfielder. I’d build it around 1) soild pitching; 2) defense, especially up the middle; and 3) clutch hitting. That was basically the Braves formula for 14 years. It worked. Perhaps its time to get back to basics?
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
DOB
How’s the reaction there for local boy Volstad making his first home start? They were expecting a lot of local people there to see him pitch? Did he get a big ovation after getting the braves 1-2-3 and striking out chipper to end the 1st?
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Lets try a yellow and peach uniform………..maybe thats it…………..the color of the uniform………..sick
By N8
July 21, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
“Mike Hampton and Tom Glavine are both throwing bullpen sessions….”
The first thing that came to my mind when I read that was a quote from one of the greatest movies of the 80’s, if not ever. Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.
Ed Rooney: “I don’t trust that Ferris Bueller farther than I can throw him”
Grace: “Well, with your bad knee Ed, you shouldn’t throw anybody… Its true.”
Surely with Hampton’s “bad” (Enter Injury Here), he shouldn’t be throwing ANYTHING, much less an entire bullpen, right?
By Mike Jacobs
July 21, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
Anyone wanna bet i take your feeble team deep more than twice in this series?
Suckers.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
N8
Didn’t you get the memo? Nobody listens to or cares what Terence Less has to say. In fact, he usually just takes what others have said and puts an annoying spin on it, so if you already had an real opinion on the subject you are one up on Mr. Less.
By DonCoburleone
July 21, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Earl whether we get one draft pick or 2 if Will Ohman walks is based on the prior 2 years performance… So you would combine his 2007 stats and his 2008 stats. If they are good enough (I believe he would have to “rank” in the top 15% of all other middle relievers for those same 2 years) then he would be a Type ‘A’ free agent and we would get 2 first round picks (both would be somewhere between 15 and 45 overall). If his stats aren’t good enough for those 2 seasons, then he falls under a Type ‘B’ free agent and all we would get is one supplemental first round pick (somewhere between pick 30 and 45)… And based on what he is doing this year plus in 2007, he could end up a Type ‘A’ free agent but more than likely he’ll be a Type ‘B’… Hope that info helps!
By Shamus Thacker
July 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Heard Hammy might miss that pen session. Mac gave him a wedgie, JP is attempting to extract the panty wad. If JP has some long forceps and a short memory, there’s hope.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Anybody see the Braves’ newest fan gear idea? It’s a Teixeira jersey with a removable Braves logo. Apparently it comes with a patch kit and replacement logos of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels. That way you aren’t throwing you money away on a jersey that will expire in a few months.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
A four-pitch UNINTENTIONAL walk for Francoeur. Wow.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
That pitcher for the marlins just lost any market value he had…………he walked JF……..man
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
That’s it baby. Score 1-0 Bravos. We’re back in the race. I guess that makes us buyers, right?
By AZBravoFan
July 21, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
AZ Braves Fan I’m in Tucson but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I’m out of town that weekend. I get back Sunday morning so if my plane’s on time there’s a chance I could drive up for the Sunday afternoon game. Not sure it’s worth the drive, though to see the usual Sunday afternoon lineup of Corky, Prado, Gotay, et al. And probably Norton at first instead of Tex.
By Frenchy Froze At Third
July 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Had Frenchy not gone to sleep for that split second at third when the ball was hit, he scores.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Was JF coming home on his knees????????
That guy needs to wake up if he even wants to stay in the bigs………The catcher went with the ball and whispered something to the 1B, came back and forced JF at home?????? are you kidding?
By THWG
July 21, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
N8
Thank you for the Ferris Bueller reference. A truly exceptional film. It’s nice to see people quoting the true classics. But yes, I agree, Humpty Dumpty needn’t be throwing anything. Perhaps HE can go on a day-long adventure trying to bust Ferris’ day off. Just as long as he doesn’t dare think about wasting any more of the Braves $$$.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
Only one run? Sad.
Well, I guess I’m just happy we got that.
By ernesto
July 21, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Lillibridge, Pitcher, Blanco.
Hard to keep an inning going with that Rally-Murderer’s Row
Campy was the biggest threat out of the 3.
By N8
July 21, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
CPA
After re-reading your post (after I hit post), I kinda figured you were on “my side”.
Sorry for the confusion. I just get so tired of people wishing Liberty Media would approve a bigger budget for more free agent signings?
Why? So we could have wasted money by re-signing Andruw for sentimental value? Or got into a bidding war with the other big spenders over Tex?
I don’t have a problem with Tex. I think he would have been a GREAT addition to the Braves of the 90’s. He would have had just as much impact as Mcgriff. Maybe not as clutch, but better defensively.
But Tex is NOT the guy you build around, IMO. I think he is a very good complimentary player that happens to cost a lot, because the market dictates that a guy with his “stats” is worth so and so million dollars.
If Tex is worth 20-23 million dollars we are getting Chipper and McCann at bargain basement prices.
I just wish that the players themselves (and their agents), would look at the number of times that teams fail when any one player takes up over 16 percent of the payroll (1 WS title since 1985 - 2002 Angels with Vlad).
If the players would rather have the money than win, than that’s fine. Just say it, admit it and publicly own it. For ONCE I’d like to see a player at the press conference with his new team, say:
“I’m not sure if this team can win it all. Especially with the big contract I just signed. But in the end it was ALL about the money for me and my family, and I’m ready to deal with the consequences on the field, if it means we can’t field a winning team because my agent bled the organization of all it’s resources to sign me.”
I think it’s safe to say that that isn’t happening any time soon. Latrell Spreewell made a comment about his “family having to eat”, after he rejected a mult-million dollar contract form the T-Wolves a couple of years ago. He came across as an azz. But you know what? He said what he felt, and got persecuted for it.
Honesty gets you nowhere. The fans just eat up the BS that they really wanted to come to your home town and play for YOU.
Was it Hampton or Neagle that “really liked the schools” in the Colorado area? What-frickin-EVER. Biggest sack of BS I’ve ever heard come out of a players mouth as a reason to signing a HUGE deal for a club.
I think that the agents and GM’s “negotiations” should be a matter of public record.
Wouldn’t THAT be fun? Talk about a great “reality” TV show. I can here the promo now…..
*If you thought Trump was tough….you’ve seen nothing. If you think being dumped on an island and having to “survive” is grueling, don’t come crying to us. Coming this fall….The Bora$ Chronicles will blow your mind. Oh…..by the way, if you think this program is gonna be on ESPN, Fox, NBC, CBS or ABC….think again. This is pay-per-view BABY. Better yet. We might make our own channel (NFL Network jab), then hold your local cable company hostage if they don’t put it on their programming list….after all, that’s how Bora$ operates”
I have to admit. I’d buy it……at least for one season.
By Del
July 21, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Braves load the bases with no outs. The Marlins got the Braves right where they want them.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t build a team around any first baseman, third baseman or outfielder. I’d build it around 1) soild pitching; 2) defense, especially up the middle; and 3) clutch hitting. That was basically the Braves formula for 14 years. It worked. Perhaps its time to get back to basics?
Sure. No problem. Any idea where we can find a wad of HOF caliber pitchers like we had for most of those 14 years? Surely they grow on trees.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Typical Braves inning………bases loaded nobody out………only 1 run to show for…………3 baby league bouncers to the infielders
By Jeff321
July 21, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Why didn’t Frenchy score on that play? Was he napping at third or just that damn slow?
By N8
July 21, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
SaltyDawg
“That’s it baby. Score 1-0 Bravos. We’re back in the race. I guess that makes us buyers, right?”
I was waiting for that. Of course I know you’re being sarcastic, but you know SOMEBODY was thinking it and pumped their fist when they thought it.
As for Terrance. He lost any respect I might have had for him when he appeared on ESPN sticking up for Vick with the special that had around the time of the indictment.
99 times out of 100, I’m not reading his column, but every now and then he suckers me in. But believe me, I “got” the memo. LOL!
By bfan54
July 21, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Krazy Kats Stats (3:31) - Just try to deny that you are on Boor-azz’s payroll. Please leave your payroll propaganda back at “the firm”.
By Poor Tex
July 21, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Poor Tex. He wants to stay in Atlanta and finish what he started. He’s disappointed the Braves haven’t performed at a time when it was most important they pick it up a notch.
Ron Gant said on the pre-game he knows Mark wants to stay in Atlanta.
Mark….. just shut the hell up!
You chose to let Boras call all the shots. Boras isn’t going to talk extension in a free agent year and you aren’t going to instruct him to do so.
So unfortunately Mark, your little vacation in Atlanta may end a couple of months early instead of lasting the complete season. And of course, that was the time frame you intended to finish what you started.
Just don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!
By Jake
July 21, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Serious question here, When are the Braves going to get rid of Corky Miller? I mean itis nothing personal about the guy, but he is not performing well in any aspect of the game. He is not hitting nor is he playing stellar defense. We let Javy go for the same reasons and i’m still not quite sure why we let Bryan Pena go. McCann is one of our best young players and we don’t want to over work him so we need someone who can play every five days who could contribute in some form to the team.
Other than that glaring problem, I don’t know what Frank Wren is going to do. Unlike most people I do not beleive that TP is the problem. I’m sure he is not telling them to look at a strike then swing at a ball, take a hack at a pitch in your eyes, don’t work the count, or swing for the fences as soon as you get someone on base. What I’ve heard from the announcers is that some of the players don’t really even take TP’s advice and frankly you can tell. You understand the pitching struggling with all the injuries and the use of all these young pitchers, but the way this offense has struggled is monumental. Teixeira is still getting use to some of the pitchers in the N.L. so I understand some of his struggles, but he still has not been what we have needed him to be along with the rest of the offense except of course for your two all-stars, and boy if those two are struggling like our recent offensive slump has shown we have no one to pick them up. The Francouer thing made no sense. If you’re gonna send the guy down and tell him you’re gonna bring him up in 10-20 days do that. Don’t bring him back up when we go on a road trip to the West where they have some of the best pitchers after three days in Mississippi. Unfortunately he is still struggling defensively along with his offense, and this year we really needed him to be the gold glover out there with Andruw gone. I brought the excuse when Andruw was hitting .150 at the plate that we still needed his glove because he still performed defensively well. The outfield defense as a whole has been bad.
The one slight bright spot is that we have something of a leadoff hitter. Blanco works the count, can bunt his way on, has speed, and his average is starting to pick up a little.
By Drummerdad
July 21, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, Absolutely smashing article you wrote there. Within 10 days we’ll know what happens with Teixeira. If no team trades for him by then I think he’ll be with the Mets next year. They’ll be looking to get rid of Delgado and they dig doing things to needle us Braves fans. After that it’s time for some tree shakin’. As long as the turnstiles keep moving at Turner Field Liberty Media isn’t going to be very inclined to spend more money on this team. Hopefully they’re willing to sell after the minimum amount of time necessary to hold a franchise.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Woow………that vacumbridge can cover some ground.
By Lil'bridge
July 21, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
I have no idea if Lil’bridge will ever hit. Some guys you just know are gonna hit and some you just know aren’t. Not sure about him. I like the way he looks at the plate even though he hasn’t produced.
Whether he’ll hit or not I do see one thing. The guy can pick it a short! He’s a major leaguer on defense in my book.
By ernesto
July 21, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Jeff321, you’re kidding right? The catcher was a foot and a half from the plate…Frenchy hustled to make it close.
I mean if you want to jump on Frenchy it’s not like you have to make up stuff to do it with, he’s been giving you plenty of ammo all year.
By Mississippi
July 21, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Next trip down to Mississippi for Frenchy, make a note to the coaching staff: Work on remedial running as well.
By Jeff321
July 21, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Seeing that Frenchy doesn’t appear to be hurt after eating serious dirt.. That was pretty funny. HA!
By Interested Observer
July 21, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
How much is a potential Tex trade further complicated by the fact that the Braves would need to find a team where they could get a MLB-ready first baseman in return? I don’t see Thorman as an option to finish out the season and the cupboard is bare otherwise.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Hey, Willie Harris’s work at Turner Field got him the NL Player of the Week award. Just announced.
By the way, Bennett needed only five pitches to throw one inning (one hit) tonight for Myrtle Beach. Braves said his fastball was clocked at 91-92 mph
By Shaun
July 21, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t build a team around any first baseman, third baseman or outfielder. I’d build it around 1) soild pitching; 2) defense, especially up the middle; and 3) clutch hitting. That was basically the Braves formula for 14 years. It worked. Perhaps its time to get back to basics?
Jeff R, So you wouldn’t build a team around Albert Pujols, David Wright, Grady Sizemore or Ryan Braun? I think I’d take any one of these players and take my chances with the rest of my team.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Ive been absent recently……….can anybody tell………..Are the Braves signing campillo long term or something?
Until when do they control him?
By Shamus Thacker
July 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Stenchy’s head is somewhere else.
Wonder if he put pressure on himself by spending big bucks [credit] in anticipation of a future mega-deal [which may never come]. Just a thought…
By Jeff321
July 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
“The catcher was a foot and a half from the plate”
I beg to differ! He was more like 3-6 feet from the plate on my television. And don’t you run on contact with the bases loaded? Wouldn’t you have a nice lead at third?
However, I do agree Frenchy gives me plenty to rip him about.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 21, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Seems most of the talk (or all of it, from what i’ve read) is about trading Ohman and Texeira. What about other players the Braves might unload. Any chance Buddy Carlyle might draw interest? Campillo? He’s 30 y.o. and if the Braves are “giving up” on the season (whatever that means) then why not deal a starter who has proven to pitch terrific this season. How about KJ? Durham (to Milwaukee) reminds me a little of KJ in that he has good offensive production but hands of stone.
By ks
July 21, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Can we please stop making up trades that won’t happen? Just because you like a trade idea, doesn’t mean that the other franchise involved is interested.
Also, can we stop complaining about what we percieve, instead of what we know? Since everyone has answers based on watching tv games instead of working with players daily, I’m sure that makes total sense in someone’s world….just not in reality.
If it really were that easy, wouldn’t you be in professional sports?!?!
Half of these posts are ridiculous…
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Francoeur should have saved his infield hit.
Oh well! 3-0! This is great!
Nice AB by 3BMac, BTW. Much better than his previous.
By Enuffzenuff
July 21, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Marlins announcer just referred to Frenchy as a dangerous guy at the plate. Bout lost my Stouffers french bread pizza laughing so hard.
By ks
July 21, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Can we please stop making up trades that won’t happen? Just because you like a trade idea, doesn’t mean that the other franchise involved is interested.
Also, can we stop complaining about what we percieve, instead of what we know? Since everyone has answers based on watching tv games instead of working with players daily, I’m sure that makes total sense in someone’s world….just not in reality.
If it really were that easy, wouldn’t you be in professional sports?!?!
Half of these posts are ridiculous…
For instance- how does anyone know what Corky Miller’s value is? Do you know for a fact that he calls a better game than Pena or anyone else? How much worse is he really than any other backup catcher? Do you know that for a fact?? If so, prove that he doesn’t have value. And for those that point to offensive stats, give me a break. No one expects a #2 catcher to be a significant offensive piece. Isn’t it possible that the guy has some value and that for all of the coaching staff’s knowledge (either right or wrong), they might know more about what Miller knows than you do?????? How arrogant it is to assume that you have more insight than they do about something that you can’t know.
Also, why single out Miller? Why is he even relevant? He has nothing to do with the success of the team overall. He plays once every three weeks (or whatever).
I’m glad everyone has high standards, but everyone needs to relax. Baseball success is cyclical. The Braves still field a competent major league team every year. ALL teams go through struggles. You need to be grateful for the run that we have had. I know, I know…only one WS title. STOP! I would take one over none…ask Cubs fans. We’re rebuilding. Deal with it and move on. Support the young guys- Jair, Mac, etc; Yes, we know…everyone affilitated with the Braves is an idiot- Pendleton, Bobby, Scherholtz etc (Sarcasm…) and that all of you, watching from your living rooms can do better. Relax and be realistic. Maybe we are underachieving, but maybe also we aren’t as good in reality as on paper. Maybe some moves haven’t worked out- but some have (Jair, drafting McCann, Yuniel). You can’t predict injuries, nor can you predict slumps. No, I’m not defending anyone- I’m just being realistic. We’re not great. We’re banged up. Our course has run. We can’t compete for TITLES with our payroll, but we can still put a decent product on the field. We might catch fire (like in ‘91), but we might not. That’s the nature of baseball. Relax.
By Live from Yokohama- it's "Tuesday at home!"
July 21, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
“A four-pitch UNINTENTIONAL walk for Francoeur. Wow.”
Ah yes, but no fears, DOB, our man has reverted to the norm, first pitch swinging after the player before him walked.
For an out, of course.
By Shamus Thacker
July 21, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
It’s a turtle, it’s a sloth, it’s SUPERSTENCHY! Able to leap 3-foot fences in a single bound [wait a minute, no he’s not]…
Sorry
By keylargo
July 21, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
I have a trade that will never happen but I would love to see. How about if Tex was traded to the Marlins (and the Braves pay his salary of course) for some really good prospects.
Tex reports to the Marlins before his first game and says “Hello, I’m Mark Teixeira and I going to sign a $24 Million Dollar Contract”. He looks around the clubhouse at his 25 team mates and 5 coaches who make about $23 Million a year combined and is never heard from again.
Justice.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Shamus It’s a turtle…
No no. Remember, the Turtle brings us rallies.
By Jake
July 21, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
OK KS show me or tell me something good Miller has done. The reason i singled him out and I don’t know about everybody else is based not only on his play, but the reasons the braves as an organization gave when they let Javy go. It’s nothing personal against Miller, but with Brian McCann being one of our best players and a catcher, we need someone who can spell him every five days and give us something. He doesn’t have to hit .300 but how about .200 and some decent defense. Brian is a good young player and you don’t want to overplay him. Personally, I just never feel like we gave Bryan Pena a fair shake and I just wanted to know why we let him go. The other problems we have are not so clear cut, but I felt that this one was. If you no something about Corky that we don’t, please do tell. I mean last time I checked it was on field performance that trumps how good a guy is in the locker room.
By LT-AA Blogger
July 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Good question by Doc. How long do we control the rights to Mr. Campillo?
Every start this year, I have kept expecting him to get smoked, falter, etc., but he keeps looking as solid as ever. A huge reason why this team has one of the best starting pitching staffs in the NL.
By Steve in VABch
July 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
I dont care what anyone says, I like Lil’bridge alot. I think his bat will come around if he is given a chance to get comfortable.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Marlins going with VandenHurk tomorrow instead of the old lefty Hendrickson. McCann’s 2-for-4 with a homer off the Dutch boy, who’s been in Double-A and only made two starts this season for Florida before an ulnar nerve problem sidelined him six weeks.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
ks
Take a Xanax, drink a glass of wine, smoke a good cigar, and calm down. This is a blog, not Reuters. Speculation, conjecture, and conspiracy theory is pretty much what it is all about.
Hey, did you guys here we might be trading Corky and a player to be named for Ryan Howard? Sounds like the real deal.
By Robin
July 21, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Nice pick ‘Bridge!
3-0 t-7 Buyers again!!!!! :) :)
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Where is Sweet Lou Vales?
I would love to hear the explanation why there are as many Braves fans in the crowd as Marlins fans, what with their superior personnel/payroll strategy and everything.
By Live from Yokohama- it's "Tuesday at home!"
July 21, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
That’s twice very recently that Gregor has been caught by a lefty when leading off first. (Can’t say I kno exactly what happened, as I have to follow along on Gamecast). Regardless, at least we have a guy at leadoff now that works the count and has some speed. Maybe he’ll develop.
How does Blanco look on defense? Does he break well to the ball?
By Yunel Lillibridge
July 21, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Okay so how about Big BRIDGE at second and KJ to a corner outfield position when Escobar is back in the lineup tomorrow. Then the Braves could (preferably) trade, send packing to AAA Richmond, or (less desirable) simply bench Stenchy. Come on Wren, pull the trigger on a package deal that inlcludes Francoeur. Surely the Braves could get a bucket of balls or, ahem, some wooden bats in return.
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Chief! Sounds like the Marlins made a good choice.
BTW—Dig the new catcher’s mask, but I liked the old chest protector better.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
*Yunel Lillibridge *
You just dont get it……..if its a bright idea………it wont be done………….
Please dont forget that our manager is Cox……..
I do back up your idea………..anything if its means benching JF.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
Damn, Campillo was NASTY that inning (and several others throughout the night). Dude’s dealin’.
By JEB
July 21, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Lil’bridge is the second coming of Rafael Belliard. Every once in awhile, Rafeal would get on a hot streak at the plate (no power though) BUT… tremendous defence!
By Live from Yokohama- it's "Tuesday at home!"
July 21, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Two ABs, two pitches seen, two groundouts to the infield. Jeff, me laddie, you’re not learning….
By Notice! It's A Blog!
July 21, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Nice post, SaltyDawg. What you say is 100% true. I’m amazed at how some here want to scold folks for posting their opinions, good or bad, about the manager, players, management and/or trades. If you want intelligent conversation from every participant, start a book club, meet at your local library and screen your members.
I don’t like abusive language or flame wars between users, but all opinions deserve to be heard even if they don’t meet the criteria that certain high brow folks wish they met.
Oh yeah, Cox sucks.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
We’ve got 14,155 on hand tonight to see the Marlins’ thwarted in their bid for a share of first place in the East.
By High School Prospect
July 21, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Should I contact Mark Teixeira’s agent or Corky Miller’s? Both are outstanding!
By Yokohama Retort
July 21, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Yokohama,
Blanco is fast,maybe even allowing him to outrun some balls, but I’m not impressed with his defensive skills. He really doesn’t seem to get great jumps on the ball either. He’s mediocre at best.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Nice post, SaltyDawg. What you say is 100% true. I’m amazed at how some here want to scold folks for posting their opinions, good or bad, about the manager, players, management and/or trades. If you want intelligent conversation from every participant, start a book club, meet at your local library and screen your members.
Watch out! I’ll start posting in ALL CAPS!
By TexasBrave
July 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
I guess Campillo wasn’t nasty enough DOB. I still can’t fathom Bobby’s handling of the pitchers at times.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
DOB
Sorry to bother……..do you have any idea of what are Braves plans for Campillo………Im pretty sure scouts all over the place are talking about him……..Personally, Id love for the Braves to give him some 3 year contract…….He could come cheap……..1-3 M??? Is he free after this season?
By Dr. Feelgood
July 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
That must have been a maple bat Joe! They have a mind of their own.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Campillo will only have about 1-1/2 years service at end of this season. He’ll be cheap for two more seasons, at least (it’s that long before his first arbitration eligible year, assuming he stays in majors, and no reason to think he won’t)
By A-ville Ranger
July 21, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Excellent lead post DOB,you nailed the situation with Tex.
One point about The Angels though.While on paper they have stars,they’re a very low scoring team this season.
You told me to think about a multi player trade,say Ohman and Tex for Kotchman and ??.
If I’m The Angels GM,a team that already has a top record. I’d salivate over my chances in the post season with Tex in the lineup.
By ijonathan
July 21, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
DOB
Amazing blog today sir. You definitely striped that one down the middle of the fairway, 320 yds if a foot.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Boy did we missed prado…………what a guy off the bench…….
As Campillo is not pitching the 9th, he will end up the night with 93 IP for the season………….Braves have played 99 games……….That means next time campillos game is over braves will have 104 games……..no way he can get to 104 innings. The next to that will be 109 games…….So I think he will need some 3 or 4 more outings before his ERA appears in the rankings. But he is not so far away, but as we speak……..if he was to be ranked………he would be 5th among NL starters……….talk about a BIG BIG SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is our #3 for next year……….thats final……….. he aint no baby……..the rotation is set from 1-3 for next year………and if a miracle happens…………. we have ourselves great starters for a short series.
We can sweep this guys and get back to plan A…………thats playing .666 the rest of the way.
By Yunel Lillibridge
July 21, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Lil’bridge is the second coming of Rafael Belliard. Every once in awhile, Rafeal would get on a hot streak at the plate (no power though) BUT… tremendous defence!
Lillibridge has already shown more pop in the minors than Belliard ever had. He’s hit 13 dingers in each of his past two seasons between AA-AAA. As his baby body fills out, it’s pretty likely he’ll be a 15-20 homer guy within a couple of years, if given the playing time. Hell, the way KJ is struggling (another K with a runner on second there in the 9th), just bench him in order to keep Bridge in the lineup.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Gonzo throwing the gas!
By geauxbraves2000
July 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
This team is quite maddening. They play a game like they did yesterday, and completely turn it around the next day.
Then you get excited for the next game and they come out flat again. Buy, sell, buy, sell…..
WTG Braves, nice win tonight.
Geaux Braves!!
By StingerSplash
July 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
How they determine column assignments at AJC (OK, probably not, but I imagine it this way… cue music and wavy screen for dream sequence).
Sports editor: OK, who wants to write today’s asinine and completely illogical take, just to stir things up? Schultz: I did it last time! I did it last time! Bradley: Not me. I reserve my superior judgment for the NCAA tournament, NFL, NBA, college football and global peace. Bisher: (Still at Birkdale. Hey, when you’re Furman ….) Moore: Guess that leaves me. That means you got next, Schultz. Better strap on the leotard.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Need some updates on ………
Infante, Glavine and Hampton…………where can I read about it??? or could anyone tell???
I read DOB said Yunel might play tomorrow.
I also hear something about Soriano is already activated.
Any help??????? please………….
By JEB
July 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Campillo shut down a power offence tonight folks!! Very impressive! A 2 hitter - 1 BB.
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Doc, they don’t have to worry about Campillo yet, can just bring him back at a low salary next year, not even eligible for arb.
By THWG
July 21, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
And yet again, we are buyers!
By JEB
July 21, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
* WOW!! 2-0 in those Blue Road jerseys for the month of July! An noone hurt!*
By bruce
July 21, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
hoooooray
By McFann :Ō:
July 21, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Very good game!
Keep it up, boys!
By N9
July 21, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
hey braves gain on all three teams today!!!
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Man……its a shame we dont have glavine, smoltz or hampton healthy…………..no way that if any of those 3 were healthy and dealing……..this rotation could not get us to the playoffs…….
Is there any timetable for Hampton to pitch again???
What about for Glavine?????
By Robin
July 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
ahhhh…win …..win ….. win ……
It never gets old! Lets go get ‘em tomorrow guys! Yea baby!
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 21, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
After tonights game I have come to the conclusion that the Braves are screwing with us!!!!
By TexasBrave
July 21, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Well as decimating as the last two games were, this win was a great come back. Great job by Campillo tonight. 6 back with 63 to go. A sliver of hope remains.
By Worse Trade
July 21, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
The worse Trade/Sale in Atlanta history. Ted Turner dumps the whole thing to end up on Time-Warners Board. His position is reduced to”Shut up Ted.” Then he wants to give it all to the UN??? Well, I’m sure that several Dictators in Foreign Countrys appreciated the infusion of cash to improve their personal lifestyle. Man, I loved Ted Turner & actually thought he was smart. At least Jane Fonda asked for her money back, hopefully to move to Vietnam. And now we are stuck with owners, only interested in a Tax Break. Major League Baseball really sucked to allow that one.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB very kind.
By geauxbraves2000
July 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
NO MORE BOBBY 9:40pm - I laughed out loud at that one, that was good :)
Geaux Braves!!
By Cork
July 21, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Big win tonight…Hopefully, Corky and Norton will get the start tomorrow night since there’s no reason to win two in a row.
By SNIPER-69
July 21, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Nothing like a win to wash those blues away. like a cool breeze on a hot summer day. Ain’t that right D!ck Holliday? But up here in first place the breeze is even sweeter….Ahhhhhhhhhh!!
By Dying To Know
July 21, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one dying to know what Sweet Lou Vales thinks of this Braves-Marlins series?? LOU where are you?!?!
By Nice Win
July 21, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Give credit where credit is due. Nice game, guys!
Same team as yesterday though and they’ll play the same way they did this weekend before this week is over. Maybe even tomorrow. And that is why you can still stick a fork in ‘em.
By JJMB
July 21, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
This season has been worth to watch because of Campillo, Jurrjens, Hudson, Buddy C, Will Ohman, Chipper (always), McCann, and Escobar.
I hope the Braves keep Tiexiera through the whole year, just to give Chipper better ABs. Chip needs the batting crown. Let Tiex go at the end of the year, and take the draft picks. I totally agree with DOB about Tiex not being a difference maker, team-wise. I do think he will give Chip some pitches to hit, though.
The big picture is the Braves are going to be mediocre to bad, until Liberty has to sell. Can you imagine Arthur Blank as owner? He’s the only hope for a WS champion here in Atlanta. The only hope.
By ncscoots
July 21, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
If you want intelligent conversation from every participant, start a book club, meet at your local library and screen your members.
Oh, man, LOL. OK, what IS a reasonable level of intelligent conversation? 10%? 25%? I mean, at what point should my expectations become unrealistic? :-)
Is higher than the IQ level of auditioners for Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader too much? I’m just asking here.
By Bi-Polar Braves
July 21, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Hopefully, they will get their meds regulated by spring training of ‘09.
By A-ville Ranger
July 21, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Somebody suggested moving Campillo to long-relief recently.First off,no let’s not.Second while he is 30 years old that’s 15 years younger than Jamie Moyer.With the easy delivery Jose may have his best seasons ahead of him.
By Notice! It's A Blog
July 21, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Oh, man, LOL. OK, what IS a reasonable level of intelligent conversation? 10%? 25%? I mean, at what point should my expectations become unrealistic? :-)
Having ANY expectations of intelligent conversation in a public forum on the internet at any given time of day or over a 24 hour period is unrealistic. Will you probably see or read some intelligent posts? Perhaps, but don’t expect it and you won’t be disappointed. :o)
By mighty mike
July 21, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
just a few things … First, among the 16 teams in the National League, the Braves rank 10th based on wins and losses — which is what everything is about, right. That’s a far cry from where they were a few years ago. Last year they managed to finish 84-78, five games out of first with the seventh best record in the league. In 2006, the finished eighth overall and under .500 for the first time since 1991.
During their last playoff season, the Braves finished with the second best record behind the Cardinal who eventually lost to Boston in the WS. In 2002 and 2003 they had the best record in the National League but lost early in the playoffs to the Cubs and Giants. In 2001, five teams finished with better records than the Braves, but the team made it to the NLCS only to lose to Arizona. In 2000, the Braves had the third best overall record, but lost to the Cardinals in the division series.
The real glory years were from 1995 to 1999. The team finished each year with the best record in the National League and appeared in three WS, winning the one in 1995.
The Braves were six games behind the Expos in 1994 with the second best record in the NL when the strike ended the season.
The Braves had the best overall record in 1993 — while they were still in the Western Division of a smaller league, losing to Philly in the NLCS. In 1991 and 1992 the Braves finished with the second best overall record. Although the Pirates finished with the best overall record, the Braves beat them in the NLCS both times and both times they lost to the American League champ in the WS.
Before that most Braves teams were so bloody awful no one wants to remember them. But indulge me for a few more sentences, please. From 1988 to 1990 the Braves finished with the worst record in the National League. The finished next to last in ‘87 and ‘86, a sterling 10th in ‘85, and almost looked like a contender in 1984 when they finished second in the west with the sixth best record overall, tied with Houston. From ‘81 to -83 they were almost tolerable, finishing first in the west in ‘82, and second in 83.
In 1979 and 1978, the Braves finished with more than ninety losses and next to last overall. From 1976 through ‘79, the Braves finished dead last in the west.
1975, fifth in the division, 11th overall 1974, third in the division, fourth overall, tied with Pitt 1973, fifth in the division, 10th oveall 1972, fourth in the division, eighth overall 1971, third in the division, seventh overall 1970, fifth and ninth 1969, first and second to the Mets overall
In 1968, the National League had no divisions, and no Padres or Expos (Nationals) either. Not to mention the Brewers, Marlins and Daimondbacks, Rockies. The Braves finished fifth, seventh and fifth in their first three years in Atlanta. OK, your eyes are glazing over. I get it. But one last thing.
The Braves finished dead last, which was eighth place, in 1935 with a record of 38-115. Yes that was Boston. Interesting tidbit. Babe Ruth finished second on that team in home runs (6) having only played in 28 games.
OK, that’s quite enough thank you.
By Shamus Thacker
July 21, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Campillo is the real thing!
By Robin
July 21, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Man, this is hilarious. On Baseball tonight: top story of the Braves/Marlins game ………..losing pitcher Chris Volstad!! lol.
By Pepperidge Blogs Remembers
July 21, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
fleming: “Wasn’t suggesting playing Corky more. Like I said he isn’t major league quality. Just using that for the stat crazies on this blog to show that in a small sample size like some here use, you can show almost anything.”
Pepperidge Blogs Remembers:
keylargo July 13, 2008 7:46 PM: I think it wise to get a larger sample size.
chrisklob July 8, 2008 12:59 AM: While that is a very small sample size,
fastasballs July 6, 2008 9:49 PM: Small sample size, but a good sign I guess
Quack Quack July 7, 2008 9:25 AM: Not the biggest sample size yet
Moby Grape July 6, 2008 2:49 AM: yeah I can sneeze at them since they are such a small sample size compared to his career numbers.
nolie July 2, 2008 2:44 AM: carries a lot more weight than a sample size that includes only this season.
N8 July 2, 2008 3:08 AM: Good thing the Tigers were thinking of Dontrelle’s “career” numbers, rather than the “small sample size” of just last year. That worked out well for them.
BA July 2, 2008 3:30 AM: Who needs a guy’s career numbers when you can panic and focus on the small sample size of “right now”?
Quack Quack July 2, 2008 3:56 AM: Sample sizes of the size you are talking about are completely worthless.
Quack Quack July 2, 2008 8:53 AM: The small sample size of this season so far has very little reliability as a predictor… . I see a lot of guys making that mistake on this board, picking the small sample size of “lately”, but that is not how it should be approached. All that small sample does is tell you what he has been doing lately
Quack Quack July 2, 2008 11:51 AM: Dude, Druw’s long gradual slide has created it’s own sample size of about 2 seasons worth now so most of that is not the same thing as half season sample size… . If you regularly accept the smaller sample size just because it’s more recent then you might be right sometimes,but you are going to be wrong more often than you are correct in the long run
Pepperidge Blogs Comes To
fleming — that was just July. Fourteen columns in June had comments with one or more mentions of “sample size”.
For your next trick, why don’t you teach your Granma to suck eggs?
By mighty mike
July 21, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
by the way … the 1935 Braves finished 62 games out.
By Fan
July 21, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
O’Brien: you are an idiot. ARod, last year, had more home runs that put his team ahead or tied the game than any player in baseball.
You are an idiot.
By Kentavo
July 21, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Well let’s see, this is about right. We’ll win most games that Huddy and Campy start, and it’s crap shoot on the other three, so yeah, we’ll wni about 2.5 out of every 5 for the rest of the year. (Yes, I’m dissing Jair, I think his magic has been used up for the year.)
Count me in the folks that get upset.
It is maddening to watch a team go out and play a flawless game like tonight then turn in duds like this past weekend when it looks as if there is no effort combined with wide-eyed ineptitude.
I think this current band - outside of Chip, Tex, Huddy, McCann and Kotsay (when not hurt) - are basically new millenium versions of Terry Harper, Paul Runge, Albert Hall, Ken Oberkfell, et al.
By Live from Yokohama- it's "Tuesday at home!"
July 21, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the reply, Retort. Well, maybe he’ll develop, maybe not. We are what we are at the moment. We’ve got some good young players in the minors- Schafer, Heyward (if he remains an OF), Hernandez- and between them and Francouer, who I have to believe is simply having a crappy season, but still has way too much promise to simply discard, as some seem to want, the future looks good.
By SaltyDawg
July 21, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Nothing like a win to wash those blues away. like a cool breeze on a hot summer day. Ain’t that right D!ck Holliday? But up here in first place the breeze is even sweeter….Ahhhhhhhhhh!!
I am sure it will smell quite nice until the stench of your late season choke job reeks up the joint smelling just a hint better than NY itself.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
Gumby69
Is that a fact??? The muts are in 1st place??? Wow, that sure is news. Thanks for the info.
In order for you to get an idea who weak your team is………Ill become kind of a muts fan when the series against the phillies start………..Only because of a phrase Im pretty sure you have heard before……….it goes like “Your xxx is mine”………..Thats what we braves tell to the muts more often than not.
But just dont get to high……. Im not really becoming a muts fan……..you will only feel the support for 3 games…….
I thank god for giving you and other muts fans a few days at 1st place…….so you losers dont feel as loser all year long………. Sweet dreams boy.
By Sell Now!
July 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Apologize for not having time to read the entire blog. Great job DOB and right on target! We’ve already paid too high a price for Tex and we need to get whatever we can for him NOW! Great job of separating the great players from the stat compilers.
Do they dare step on Francoeur’s toes and either sit him or send him back to AA or AAA?
Did not care much for Glavine’s defection to the Mets and his stubbornness about admitting he made a mistake, but he is a warrior and I hope he makes it back successfully. He has played through injuries and I am sure everyone knows he must be really hurt badly to miss this much time.
On the other hand why do we still take up space in the paper talking about Hampton’s latest “injury” just before he was to be back! Are you freaking kidding me! Who gives a rat’s you know what if he ever throws a ball again? Wouldn’t that just frost everyone if he returns to pitch in Aug or Sept. I swear if they let him on the mound I will leave the game! What a head case!
Let’s try to make improvements for the ‘09 season now and for God’s sake (and ours) don’t even consider talking with Boras. Tex does not give ANY indication he would make ANY concession to remain in Atlanta and he is NOT a difference maker.
Go Braves! (in ‘09)
By mighty mike
July 21, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Well, put Kentavo. Dont forget Larvell Blanks and Ozzie Virgil.
By Doc Holliday
July 21, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
I can see in my crystal ball……….when phillies win the division……..if muts finish ahead of the braves…………our friends muts fans will come here saying their team finished ahead of us meaning they are the greatest team on earth……….the good part about that is that what it proves is that the stick they measures their team with is our braves………hehehe.
By Wayne in Tiger Country
July 21, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
Count me as one who is really dissapointed in Francoeur, but not nearly enough to send him packing just yet. ONLY would I do that if he brought back a high ceiling pitching prospect, or were packaged in a blockbuster for a top flight starter.
I missed the game tonight. Looks like Campillo worked his magic again. Could he be one of those late bloomers, who could give you another serviceable 5-10 years as a #3/4 starter?
As for Lillibridge, I really think if Braves management comes to the probable conclusion that this year is a lost cause (3 teams that are 5-6 games ahead of you is only overcome by a killer winning streak, unseen here in years), that Lillibridge needs to play somewhere for most of the rest of the season, to determine what kind of a future he has.
He might have to displace either KJ or Escobar in the infield, with the others going to the bench, or elsewhere in the field.
Whaddya think, my friends?
By David O'Brien
July 21, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this
Wow, Braves win in the blue jerseys and avoid injury. Though they cam close a couple times with Chipper and Francoeur falling around the joint.
Chipper had some fun laughing at himself after the game, including his losing track of the count on what he thought was ball four.
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
He might have to displace either KJ or Escobar in the infield, with the others going to the bench, or elsewhere in the field.
Whaddya think, my friends
I think no one should replace Escobar.
I think if someone is going to replace KJ, it should be Martin Prado, not Lilbridge.
I think we should send Lil packing if we get the right offer. If not, he’d have to put in some time as a reserve like Prado has. Prado deserves a shot when a spot opens up, and KJ’s yet-another-slump is tempting a replacement in these must-win games.
By Robert S
July 21, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
Yeah Kentavo, I see the same thing you do. The current band of “prospects” who came up a few years ago - Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur, Jo Jo Reyes, and this year Gregor Blanco - seem to have that same sort of “almost, but not quite” feel as the prospects who came up in the mid-to-late 80’s - Gerald Perry, Albert Hall, Andres Thomas, and (with the exception of two seasons) Jeff Blauser.
They gave the indication that there was greatness ahead, they just never arrived there. And frankly, I look at Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur, and Gregor Blanco particularly as those who may never get to that next level as ballplayers - sometimes good, sometimes horrid, great on the rare occasion, but never exceptional. I think the fact that the Braves have been actively shopping for another bat exemplifies this.
The only player who has become exceptional from the current crop is, of course, Brian McCann. The jury’s still out on Yunel Escobar due to injuries, but he certainly has the tools and potential to be great.
But as for the rest - they may stay the course of mediocrity and we will one day wonder what could’ve been, while being saddened for what they’ve become.
By Bobby's Cox
July 21, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
Not sure it’s worth the drive, though to see the usual Sunday afternoon lineup of Corky, Prado, Gotay, et al. And probably Norton at first instead of Tex. AZBravoFan
Don’t wanna see Prado but you rather see KJ’s .234, 2 HR, 13 RBIs, 27 K, and .665 OPS in his last 40 games including an 0-5 tonight?
Wow.
By MiamiBrave
July 21, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
back from the game, good win, hopefully Morton can continue the good pitching
by the way, lil’bridge was sick with the glove tonight
good clutch at bats with two outs to bring in those two runs in the middle of the game
btw DOB did you happen to catch the “fake” John Smoltz in the clubhouse? Ohman found a dude in the crowd who looked like a bearded Smoltz, the pen was having some fun with ‘em, even asked him to sign a ball for them as John Smoltz lol
pretty funny, you can easily tell that Will is a pretty cool and funny dude
By THWG
July 22, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
JJMB
While I agree that having Tex batting behind Hoss gives him a great shot at the batting title, I simply cannot envision a world in which Arthur Blank might own the Braves. He has already screwed up the other two things he owns (1. Nobody with half a brain centers an entire football team over such a THUG 2. I have made it a point to NEVER shop at Home Depot, as their employees have clearly made it a point to NEVER assist me in any way when I am there). I don’t even want to imagine what he would do to screw up such a classy club as the Braves.
By Robert S
July 22, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox, the only thing I don’t understand is why Prado isn’t starting more often. He might not ever hit 20 homers in a year, but the guy’s a pretty good stick, with a .300 lifetime minor league average, and he doesn’t strike out as often as Johnson does, either. But Johnson’s stinking up the joint, and he’s still starting. More of that “Bobby Cox loyalty” thing, I guess………
By Mike Hampton's vajayjay
July 22, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
Whew. I almost got injured just watching that game.
Good night all.
By Wayne in Tiger Country
July 22, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
Bobbys Cox I also like Escobar a lot, but I don’t quite have the same feel for Prado that you do. I think ultimately, KJ might be the perfect corner infielder/outfielder/pinchhitter for this team.
What I was suggesting is not in keeping up some false hope that this team can really win, but that they need to see what they have for 2009. In doing so, I think Escobar, while not proven, is close to being a proven SS. He also might be a great second or third baseman.
Lillibridge, while yet unproven I think has a far brigher future than Prado. I would love to see what he could do as a full time SS or secondsacker for a couple of months.
I really don’t see Prado hitting enough, and his range and arm are nothing close to Escobar or Lillibridge. I would be OK with a bat like Prado, if we had some more pop in the outfield. Blanco is not going to cut it.
If we do decide to sell, I would like to see guys like Schafer, Perry and Jones gets some quality AB’s the rest of the year.
Gotta run, my Braves compadres!
By fastasballs
July 22, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
Tex might not be traded if the right deal doesn’t come along. I don’t see it right now, unless a contending club has a serious injury to their first baseman in the next week or so.
The Bridge flashed the leather tonight. He can’t go anywhere because there are just too many good nick names one can come up with for him. Who knows he might just play himself onto the roster for next season.
Hayward went deep tonight for Rome. He & Freeman are some duo down there. Hayward’s numbers are very good, but Freeman’s are outstanding. Freeman has right at 50 xtra base hits so far this season. Also Jon Owings (Micah’s little brother)is having a very solid season for Myrtle Beach. He’s a big power hitter & he has brought the average up this season to go with the power #’s.
Seems like the farm is very solid. The only problem is what the Braves are lacking can’t be filled for a few years by bringing guys up. 1B & leftfield seems to be the most pressing issues. Schaefer may or may not be here next season. His batting average has fallen into the low .200’s.
There will be positions to fill either by free agency or trades. The Braves have the prospects to trade even after the Tex trade. I’m sure a the top 5 are off limits, but you never know.
Thank God our farm system doesn’t look like the Mutts does. They have no other option but to pay big dollars for players & hope they gel into a team.
By Mark T.
July 22, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
Scott Hairston and Maddux…I like that idea. Hairston hit his 16th homer tonight. More than the entire Braves outfield.
By Daybed Wagmoe
July 22, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Hairston hit his 16th homer tonight. More than the entire Braves outfield.Mark T:
Braves outfielders have hit 20 homers this year.
It’s not many more than Hairston’s 16, and when you consider that 5 different OF have hit 20, it looks even worse. But still, 20 > 16.
By Mark T.
July 22, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
It’s not many more than Hairston’s 16, and when you consider that 5 different OF have hit 20, it looks even worse. But still, 20 > 16. Daybed Wagmoe
That would give Wren the masher he has been looking for. LOL
Seriously though, Hairston does have 16hrs now, but they are mostly solo jacks. He has like 29 rbis. That would mean he is this years Chris Young of the DBacks. But he is a more proficient lead off hitter than what we are getting now.
By jed
July 22, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
glavine’s pitching a bullpen session. hampton’s pitching a b****** session.
By bravos2249
July 22, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
* ARod, last year, had more home runs that put his team ahead or tied the game than any player in baseball.*
and they got how far in the playoffs?
he hit .267 with 1 homer against CLE in the playoffs
he hit .333 with 6 homers against them in the reg. season
He’s a notorious Playoff choker
By rupert
July 22, 2008 3:59 AM | Link to this
3 in a row on the road and in the battle blue jerseys, haha, no one can say this team hasn’t shown flashes, i think that it what is so frustrating, a team like the pads or the nats is bad, they play bad most of the time, the fans know they don’t have the players etc. accept it, no big deal, problem with this team is that they have some good players, and they don’t play bad most of the time, they play bad a little over half the time, the rest of the time they look like a damn good team, that’s what makes this team so hard to follow on a daily basis, ups, downs, no passion over the weekend, then shutting out a top team in the division on the road (where they’ve sturggled), i guess when you can’t understand what makes a team tick, so to speak, it inevitably leads to the frustrations many of us braves fans feel
By CharlieAlphaBravo
July 22, 2008 4:57 AM | Link to this
Frenchy plants his face.
Whoa, Chip… that’s only ball three.
Campy was dealin’.
Whoa, dude…. Did I just haiku?
By Jim Bridger
July 22, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this
He might have to displace either KJ or Escobar in the infield, with the others going to the bench, or elsewhere in the field.
Whaddya think, my friends?WayneITC
Most of us scouts think that Lilly is great on D but injuns will regularly scalp him when he attempts to be offensive.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this
Went to Le Tub, our old stomping grounds on the Intracoastal in Hollywood Beach, after last night’s game and ate one of their astonishingly good cheeseburgers, a gut-buster that’s gotta weigh close to a pound. I’ve still never had a burger anywhere in the country that’s better than that slab of sirloin they serve at Le Tub.
That and two hours’ sleep the night before caused me to pass out on the bed about 10 minutes after I walked in my hotel room late last night, before I could even turn on the laptop and check out any late-night discourse….
CharlieAlphaBravo, you are a funny dude….
WayneITC: Lillibridge displace Escobar at SS? You really think so, and you’ve watched a healthy Escobar play on a regular basis?
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this
Seems like the farm is very solid. The only problem is what the Braves are lacking can’t be filled for a few years by bringing guys up. fastasballs
Exactly. Braves have a lot of excellent prospects in the minors, but most are at least a year or two from the majors. And that not only prevents Braves from considering them as potential replacements next season, but also prevents trades with many or most teams looking for young players who can step into their major league lineup or pitching staff next season.
By CharlieAlphaBravo
July 22, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this
Thanks O’Brien, but
don’t encourage me… Or I’ll
just repeat my jokes.
By Slim
July 22, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this
In 2006, Adam LaRoche hit .285 with 32 HRs for the Braves (492 ABs). Isn’t that about what Teixiera is doing this year, albeit with more consistent defense? Tex is so overrated it’s ridiculous ($20+ million???). Heck, Roche only made $420K for those numbers.
By FloridaBrave
July 22, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
The “Truth and Rumors” section at SI.com shows that one rumor has Tex going to the Angels for Brandon Wood and Robb Quinlan. Take it for what it’s worth…
By robustyoungsoul
July 22, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
Congratulations on making FJM!
By Apollo from Argentina
July 22, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this
Would you characterize Chipper as a player who puts a team on his back and delivers the big hits when they’re needed? I wouldn’t. He’s always had the opportunity to do so but, except for series or two against the Mets about a decade ago, he’s never done it. He’s always been a complementary type player, relying on Justice or Jordan to do the heavy lifting. That’s why he’s not a sure-lock HOF’er..
By h8thecold
July 22, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
FJM socking it to DOB! That was a fantastic piece
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
fastballs and DOB, the good news for us fans is that the Braves have enough young players on the major league roster plus a couple of guys in the minors who could make them a serious contender (I’m talking 90+ wins) within 2-3 years and possibly even by next year if things go just right.
McCann, Johnson, Escobar, Blanco, Francoeur, Prado, Brandon Jones, Lillibridge, Jurrjens, Reyes, Morton, Chuck James is still capable of contributing, Boyer, Acosta, Schafer, not likely but it wouldn’t be out of the question to see Heyward up at some point as soon as next season, Hudson is still fairly young.
Really, the only question marks are firstbase and possibly leftfield. And they could use power bats at both positions, given their probable lack of power at other spots.
I could see them trading Lillibridge, BJones and possibly Chuck James sometime between now and Opening Day 2009, which could help fill needs at first and left. And they could make a choice between Blanco and Schafer if one of those guys could bring them back something they really like.
I think this team is in a nice position. It kind of reminds me of where Cleveland was 3-4 years ago or where Milwaukee was 2-3 years ago.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
Adam La Roche in 2008
.258———-12————48————-.333———-.445
He has played in 92 games and has 5 errors charged to him.
Not good numbers in my opinion……….by the way Lilly fielded last night and Gonzos save………..Id say we got a steal. Which other players were also included in that deal? Was it Elvis??? or did he go in the TEX trade?
By Original Jon
July 22, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
Apollo from Argentina Youre and Idiot. Chipper is a sure lock HOF’er because he is 3rd on the all-time switch hitters homerun list. He is one of the best switch hitters in the history of the game and he is the only switch hitter in Major League History with a .300 + Career Batting average and 400 HOmeruns. Bet you didnt know that he holds the record for most consecutive games with an extra base hit, did ya?
By Original Jon
July 22, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
Something I just noticed while browsing the sports pages on the internets. The Astros are looking to be buyers. They are actually trying to trade for a veteran pitcher such as Randy Wolf. Now, I am not saying Randy Wolf is anything to get happy about, but they are wanting to make moves to win THIS YEAR. They are 12 games out in the division people, and a game behind us in the wildcard. So if they think they can win it this year and are not conceding the season, why should the Braves. I say we give up a prospect or two for Nady, hope that Glavine and Hampton can come back healthy and boost our rotation.
Seriously, if the Astros think they still have a chance, why dont we??
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Kyle Davies
3-1 in 9 starts with 49 IP 20 walks and 25K. 5HR allowed and a 4.59 ERA for KC. He has 4 quality starts, but lasted 1.1 IP against the SFG and 4.0 IP against orioles.
Those are not good numbers……….. kind of the same stuff he was doing here, expect at least he has a .750 w%.
BTW……….whats the status on Chuck James???
By Mark
July 22, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
Whiskeytown was great in the late 90’s. good call
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Original Jon, unlike the Astros, I’m sure the Braves want to set themselves up for a big run. And not go for mediocre vets who can keep them around .500 (or worse).
By Hercules from Mexico
July 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Original Jon, Yes, Chipper has nice stats but those stats haven’t carried the Braves to any championships. In an era when the top notch players were getting 130+ rbi per year, Chip was barely getting 100. Talk to me five years after he retires, but there’s no way he’s a first ballot HOF and may have to wait for the old-timers committee to save him.
By JonesinForSomeSmack
July 22, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
why is everyone talking about trading? after we figure out whats going to happen with tex and with ohman (and i say trade tex for sure now, it doesnt show that we’re throwing the season away if we get the right package in return).. we can worry about next season by jumping into free agency! with all of our extra money and the possibility of adding to our budget, we could easily bring in a stud starter (coughsheetscough) and stud outfielder (coughholliday?) in the offseason, without worrying about trades…. at most, we can expect to free up hampton (15.9M), Smoltz (14M), Teixeira (12.5M) and Glavine (8M). Thats $50M!! youre telling me we cant throw $15 at sheets, $20 at holliday, $8-10 on a first baseman and the rest of utility guys and veterans like we normally do? i cant wait for the offseason
By lewie
July 22, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
i dug on whiskeytown back in the day as well…it was a nice win for the braves but i still want a trade to LA for Loney+ and start looking for an OF bat either in trade this season or the offseason. start anew for a next w/a different lineup.
By Saluter24
July 22, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
You’ve got to be kidding, right? Tex is the reason a lot of people that are younger in age go to the games and buy the tickets. Bobby Cox is the man, but he does need to reconsider his idea that all players should get a chance to play all the time. Play the players who are producing, not just give “everyone a chance”. This isn’t Little League. Besides, for Tex, hitting .281 in his last ten games isn’t that bad!
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Shaun
I just keep reading this………..contention in 2-3 years………same old story………..Im not against young blood, but, money also needs to be spent. Braves have tried lots of young players……..and tons of them have not been what they have expected or are already gone (maybe because they didnt think they were enough).
Jeff Francoeur
Adam La Roche
Kyle Davies
Joey Devine
Bryan Peńa
Pete Orr
Scott Thorman
Wilson Betemit
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Chuck James
Ryan Langerhans
Kelly Johnson (I know most of you will disagree, but to me he is not a good player……….average and nothing else, mostly because a below average glove).
IF you see that list……….and they check on what have we really produce……….. Id say our farm is not really that heavenly great.
Yunel Escobar
Brian McCann
Then there are the players that have good carrers away from us:
Adam Wainwright
Jason Schmidt
J. Dye
Rafael Furcal
And then there are the……..too young to tell:
JoJo
Charlie Morton
What does our system has given us in the last 10 years?
BRIAN MCCAN + YUNEL ESCOBAR + RAFAEL FURCAL
What about the last 20 years?
You add to that list:
CHIPPER JONES + TOM GLAVINE + JAVY LOPEZ + AJ
Too me it looks like 7 players that have produce for “long periods” or currently are.
Maybe you could add to the list……….Mark Wholers, but I wounldnt.
By Random
July 22, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
JonesinForSomeSmack: “we can expect to free up hampton (15.9M), Smoltz (14M), Teixeira (12.5M) and Glavine (8M). Thats $50M!!”
Why so eager to dump Smoltz and Glavine? If they both recover successfully from their current injury/surgery, don’t you think that Smoltz would still be a true stud pitcher, and Glavine a cagy old fox a la Moyer/Maddux?
By nolie
July 22, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
I downloaded & watched the first two episodes of Generation Kill last night. While I agree that it is indeed a very good show so far, I can’t say that I think it is quite as great as some here have said. Would not rate it with The Wire, The Shield, or * Sopranos. War-show wise I definitely liked *Band Of Brothers better. Perhaps it is a generational thing.
By Slim
July 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I know Roche has struggled a little this year, but is Teixeira worth THAT much more. If Boras wants $22 million for Tex, that’s $8 million more than Pujols and Berkmann get. I really think Teixeira is THE single most overrated player in the league…and Boras wouldn’t have it any other way. Besides that, the guy is a robot…not that Roche was Mr. Personality, but I’m just sayin’.
By Serge45
July 22, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
DOB - Port of Call in New Orleans has a big juicy burger, paired with a large baked potato, that is quite hard to beat.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 22, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Doc -
Remember David Justice, Ron Gant, Ryan Klesko, Jeff Blauser?
I mean comparing our farm system now with our farm system 20 or even 10 years ago is like comparing apples and oranges. You could (and should) make the argument that Shuerholtz and Cox’ use of their farm system to field top notch talent at the major league level augmented by a couple a low/moderate cost free agents (Bream, Belliard, Pendleton) changed the way that good major league teams fielded talent. Witness the 90s Yankees dynasty. Or virtually any WS winner in the last decade.
As for our farm system now, the fact that most of the players you mentioned (either on the Braves roster, or not) are playing Major League ball right now speaks for itself. And you’d be hard-pressed to find teams fielding more farm talent at the major league level than the Braves. The problem is that we can no longer afford the high-priced free agents like McGriff/Gallaraga to augment our roster. Witness the Texeira trade talk.
By nolie
July 22, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
He’s always had the opportunity to do so but, except for series or two against the Mets about a decade ago, he’s never done it. He’s always been a complementary type player, relying on Justice or Jordan to do the heavy lifting. That’s why he’s not a sure-lock HOF’er.Apollo
Bull. Even Bill James who doesn’t particularly believe in clutch listed Chipper as one of the top clutch guys around in a recent article detailing that he is perhaps becoming more comfortable with the concept. Nobody can always carry a team dude. Even the best are still gonna fail at least 66% of the time, mostly another fan fantasy.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday, yes, spend money. But don’t throw it away. They shouldn’t spend it on a player who may prevent them from getting what they need when they are ready to make a big run.
And it’s still too early to tell what Francoeur, Escobar, McCann, Lillibridge, and others are going to be. You seem to be assuming that we’ve already seen the best of these players. Seems like you think they call a player up, he plays a few months and that’s it; that’s what he’s capable of the rest of his career in the majors. But these players are still at least a couple of years from when they will likely just begin to peak.
As far as Kelly Johnson, I’m not sure what’s average about a .354 on-base and a .431 slugging from a secondbaseman. And Johnson’s range is quite good. He’s never going to be a great fielder, but he’s better than his reputation. People just remember the dropped fly ball and his errors. But he gets to more balls than lots of secondbasemen, which helps to even things out a little bit. Again, he’s never going to be a great secondbaseman but he’s adequate. And with his offense, he’s a very productive player overall.
Also, a team doesn’t need players to produce for “long periods.” It only takes one year to make a big run. If they get enough quality players who will have good seasons at around the same time, they could set themselves up for a 2-4-year run as a legitimately great team. I’d rather have 2-4 90+ win teams than a decade of 83-84 win-teams.
By 1957 Braves Fan
July 22, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Those guys on Baseball Tonight didn’t even mention Jorge Campillo on either broadcast last night. He just keeps getting hitters out. Braves need to keep pushing runs across tonight.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Injury Reports
Glavine and Hampton to throw bullpen session today.
Bennett will have a very short rehab assignment in A ball, it started yesterday……maybe less than a week.
Acosta not coming back anytime soon.
Infante is eligible to come off DL today…..he might be ready……..its up to DOB to update that one to us.
Yunel should play tonight.
So things are looking pretty good.
Matt Diaz is not looking good……….some discomfort, not nearly 100% yet………sounds like it will take 1-2 more weeks for him.
Having Yunel and Infante back is just great.
I hope Lilly stays and Gotay hits the road.
Soriano is back……..hopefully he is ready and could be our great setup man……….
Hamptons groin injury apparently was nothing serious…….
Glavine is encouraged by his progress.
Bennett is almost ready.
Good news all over the place……….
Id say if we go 3-3 or 4-2 against fish and philly……….we dont sell.
The panorama has never looked this good……….injuries Im talking about………
By nolie
July 22, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
I think this team is in a nice position. It kind of reminds me of where Cleveland was 3-4 years ago or where Milwaukee was 2-3 years ago.Shaun
and how has that really worked out so far? Not as well as many expected. There are no sure things in baseball I guess
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
nolie, well Cleveland was a game from the World Series last season. They were among the elite teams in 2005 and 2007.
Milwaukee was in it until the end last season and they have the second-best record in the league this season.
What hasn’t worked out?
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Right now we have 6 pitchers with an ERA better than Hudson´s ERA……. Thats pretty good considering Hudson is having a very good year.
Soriano is included in that list………..he has only pitched 9 innings this year, but we all know he could easily stay on that list for a long period of time.
What is funny is that stockman has not allowed a run and he is in the minors…………we all know that………just wanted to recall it.
Remember David Justice, Ron Gant, Ryan Klesko, Jeff Blauser?
Sure…….you are right
By fifthbusiness
July 22, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
How about this plan. Trade Tex for a right handed out fielder with some pop and a minor league picther. Move Hoss to 1st and put Escobar at third. Blanco and Frenchy should platoon.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
And it’s still too early to tell what Francoeur, Escobar, McCann, Lillibridge, and others are going to be. You seem to be assuming that we’ve already seen the best of these players. Shaun
Im not sure what do you mean……..I said Escobar and Mc were good products of our farm.
JF is a failure as we speak and It has been like that for more than a year…………not talking only numbers…………but swinging at everything………like a robot.
Lilly…………I agree………..its too early to tell…………..I never said he was a failure………..same goes for Blanco and BJ……..to early to tell.
But for JF……….He is young………..but he has more than 1000 ABs……….is not like he has just arrived.
By MGL
July 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Did anyone see the box for the KC - Detroit 4- 19 game? Gobble got gobbled up for 10 runs in an inning of relief. More interesting, little Tony Pena PITCHED a scoreless inning.
By Gregor Fan-co
July 22, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
DOB
BURNED by Firejoemorgan.com!
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Shaun
I never said that KJs bat was not good, but his fielding is soooooooo bad…….. Give him a B- for his hitting and a C- for his fielding.
Please dont try to tell me that his glove is better than his reputation.
Ive seen Yunel make lots of E´s this season……….but when he goes for the ball………..you can tell he is going to get it……….he doesnt makes you hold your breath…………..
Chipper and TEX are well above average in that department……….
But KJ…………??????? man………….everytime a ball is hit toward him……….you wont tell me you dont go like “PLEASE GOD, HELP HIM CATCH IT”.
And we are not talking only catching the ball here………he has looked lost several times once he gets the ball………making lots of bad plays once he has the ball……..lots of mental errors and lots of “hits” that in reality were mental errors………..He is even afraid to go for the ball if the runner is passing by………come on!!!!!
Hitting………Ok……….he is good………above average………there is a big cloud above him because there are several great hitting 2B (Uggla, Utley, Orlando Hudson, Kent, Sanchez from pitt), but he can compete with his bat…………but man …………his D??? just horrible.
By BossLady
July 22, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Those guys on Baseball Tonight and ESPN have no love lost for Braves. They were either sent home or knocked out by them over the years. Their careers were changed by the Braves defeat.
Although, it does not appear on this blog but the Braves are a baseball dynasty. All of the wins over all those years had to have given lots of them a bitter taste. Being America’s team certainly does not help either. During that time the Braves games were shown throughout the United States, Canada & Puerto Rico.
Everybody loves the Braves even if they have their hometown team. Yes, it is very immature and unprofessional, but those guys could care less for the Braves
By Mitch
July 22, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Dave, I think that Wren should trade Tex. The way I see it, with our season going nowhere this year, why let him go to free agency for nothing but draft picks? I would get the best possible deal we can for him now, and look to next year.
Mitch
By SeaAtl
July 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
I understand that trading players in real life is a heck of a lot more complicated that in fantasy baseball or this blog, and that this Tex situation is pretty sticky. But I sure hope that what I read on si.com this morning is flat-out wrong, because this doesn’t seem like a good trade for the Bravos: “With baseball’s trade deadline in 10 days, one rumor has Los Angeles Angels utility player Robb Quinlan and minor league third baseman Brandon Wood headed to Atlanta for slugger Mark Teixeira, who can become a free agent at season’s end.”
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Someone didn’t like O’Brien’s analysis, which I must admit wasn’t very well-though out:
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/
Last few games, I’ve seen, Tex has been carrying this team.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Someone didn’t like O’Brien’s analysis, which I must admit wasn’t very well-though out:
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/
Last few games, I’ve seen, Tex has been carrying this team.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
fifthbusiness
You might have a point there, but man……….moving chipper to 1B??? Im not sure about that one………….remember he is as fragile as Hampton. He had a foot injury which could be aggravated at 1B since he has to be dancing all day long at 1B. 3B is the most suitable position for him……….he doesnt have to move that much during a game….. and there is less chance he steps on the bag the wrong way or is injured on a bang bang play.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday, what does how many at-bats Francoeur has in the majors have to do with whether we’ve seen his best?
I think Francoeur is overrated and over-hyped and I don’t think he’ll be a superstar, but I don’t think we’ve seen him at his best.
What does the number of at-bats he has have to do with when he will peak and how good he will be at his peak?
If a player is called up at 18-19, should we assume that for the first three years of his career he is the player he’s always going to be, even if he has over 1000 AB? Well, it’s the same with Francoeur. At 24, he’s at least two years away from the age at which players generally start to peak.
By BossLady
July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Oh by the way, if you are going to call someone an idiot the phrase goes like this YOUR AND IDIOT. Okay, got that?
By scooter
July 22, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Don’t usually comment on this blog but its a good assessment of Tex, great skills but not a clutch player at all.
And to the 1st? guys - grow up, get a life
By Lew
July 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday-I’d have to say your evaluation of our Farm System is uninformed and simplistic in the extreme. Of course not every player we bring through the minors will be an elite player-not too sure how many “elite” players there really are in MLB, anyway-but we’ve produced many MLB players of several years service.
A minor league system exists to bring players to your MLB club. I would say the Braves are at the top of the stack doing this. Need I remind you that Andy Marte would hardly qualify as a decent player from our system, yet he brought Renteria, who brought Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez-pretty productive minor league player for the Braves even though his stats are non existent. Wouldn’t you say?
However, if several years of basically solid MLB service is an indication of a player’s worth, then you forgot Millwood, Lemke, Blauser, Avery, Merker, Vinny Castilla, Gant, Stanton, Klesko, Borowski, Byrd, Mordecai, DeRosa, Graffanino, Eddie Perez, Odalis Perez, Wes Helms, Marquis and Betemit.
How about using the Farm System to acquire players you need? That would include McGriff, Hudson, Estrada, Ohman, Teixeira, Soriano, Gonzalez, Lillibridge, Renteria, and Wickman, who WAS lights out in 06 (and let us not forget the Marte trade which eventually brought us JJJ).
Now, while I’m certain there are others I’ve missed, I would say that over the past 20 years, not only have we produced as many, if not considerably more, serviceable MLB players from our Farm System than those of most other clubs, it also appears the rest of baseball is hardly shy when attempting to acquire said players. I think we have one of the more consistently solid minor league systems there is existing today.
By ernesto
July 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
The FireJoeMorgan piece basically takes DOB to task for sharing his OPINION.
Cheap.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Doc, Johnson has 10 errors. He has 245 PO and 158 assists.
He ranks 9th in the majors in assists. That tells us his range is pretty good. His range factor is 9th in the majors (PO and A per inning). Kelly has good range. His 10 errors obviously aren’t good, which keeps him from being a great secondbaseman but he’s adequate.
Again, a lot of people just remember a dropped fly ball and his errors and assume he’s a horrible fielder. But the evidence is clear that he’s at least adequate.
By Thrillhouse44
July 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Wow, someone at firejoemorgan was drinking their Hater-ade this morning. Shocking…
By Genny
July 22, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
**I think your analisis is good, but for reals, the reason mark terxijiaria is no good is his eyes. They are not calm enuff, his eyes.
don’t fire bobbyy cocks, fire:
joe morgan**
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Shaun
When did I say we had already seen the best JF has to offer? Never ever…………….but, I dont think we are going to witness it any time soon…………so my point is, what are we going to do? Keep him until he does is a very good player? As things are right now………I dont think he will get out of it in 2009, and since he is our RF and he sokkkkkks so much, it will doom us……….AGAIN. We dont want that, do we???
I know you have great knowledge about baseball and you know that we (and any team) MUST have good offensive numbers from their 1B, 3B, RF. There are teams that dont, but they make it up with others like C, SS, LF, whatever……….we dont.
We are counting on him……….there is no bigger proof than the fact that Bobby keeps batting him 5th very very often. And I dont think there is a soul in Bravesnation that wouldnt agree he should not hit above 7th.
Since Bobby wont put him 7th nor 8th………..we better send him packing.
We have not seen his best………..but it is costing us way too much to wait for it to happen.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 22, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
SeaAtl -
I think that we will be hard-pressed to do a lot better than this trade, I think (see DOB comments above). In this scenario Quinlan would play 1B at least in a platoon for the rest of the season (i guess… Bravos will need a major league 1B in any trade scenario.).
Brandon Wood is a stud prospect. He’s only 22 y.o. and listed as high as the #3 prospect in baseball by Baseball America. Yes, he’s blocked by Chipper at 3B and Yunel at SS. But we could do much, much worse than this trade, I think.
Consider this - what are the chances the Braves draft two players either of which will be the caliber of player that Wood is by the age of 22. Very, very small, I think.
By Random
July 22, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Slim: “Besides that, [Tex] is a robot…not that Roche was Mr. Personality,”
What was your planet of residence during LaRoche’s tenure here? Sheesh!!!
17 Jan 07:
When Adam LaRoche first heard his name bantered in trade talks back in December, his good friend Chipper Jones called to tell him the Braves weren’t going to trade him. Jones explained that the talks were just a product of other teams showing interest in one of the game’s rising offensive stars.
After learning on Wednesday afternoon that he had, indeed, been traded to the Pirates in exchange for Mike Gonzalez, LaRoche accepted the transaction with dignity and then playfully gained the realization that Jones’ veteran influence doesn’t exactly extend into the business side of the game.
“Apparently, he doesn’t have any pull around there,” LaRoche jokingly proclaimed on Thursday afternoon, as mechanics at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport attempted to repair the plane he’d boarded en route to Pittsburgh.
“I’m going to miss Roachy a lot,” Andruw Jones said. “He helped this team a lot, and we were really close. Our families were close, and he was a good friend. But we strengthened our pitching staff, and that’s just the way it goes in this business.”
Looking back on his three years in Atlanta, LaRoche says he’ll remember both the success and the friendships. He gained a brotherly-like relationship with Chipper Jones, became one of John Smoltz’s favorite golf partners and gained an even stronger bond with longtime friend Ryan Langerhans.
When LaRoche, who is an avid outdoorsman, was reminded that there is a Cabela’s retail store located about 40 minutes away in Wheeling, W.V., he responded, “I know. I already checked that out.”
He then added, “There goes about half my salary.”
11 May 07:
Same ol’ Roachy: Minutes after arriving at PNC Park for Friday night’s series opener against his old Braves teammates, Pirates first baseman Adam LaRoche wandered toward the visitors’ dugout to share some time with Cox. His old skipper jokingly told him that he hopes he gets his swing back after this series concludes.
While playing in Atlanta from 2004-06, LaRoche was one of the most popular and likeable players in the Braves clubhouse. Thus, as he’s managed to hit just .168 this year, many of his former veteran teammates have called to offer both encouragement and some fun-loving jabs.
“About a week or two ago, back when I was hitting .091, Chipper [Jones] called and said, ‘Tell me this is a misprint,’” LaRoche said. “I said, ‘Oh, no, you’re seeing it right. But it’s a hard .091.’”
And I’m sure many others here have even better stories than these of LaRoche.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 22, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
I suspect that the firejoemorgan blogger likes thrasher metal. Would never fit in (or be interesting) here on the MIB blog.
And also - anybody that needs to use several expletives to make a point… most always they don’t have one. But that’s just my f@#$in opinion.
By Kentavo
July 22, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
I watched “Baseball Tonight” and just laughed when they talked about the Marlins’ losing pitcher and said nothing about Campillo who pitched 7 innings of shutout ball.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
*How about using the Farm System to acquire players you need? * Lew
Thats exactly what Im saying………..We have needs……….we trade………cant wait forever for those guys to develop…….we wait if our needs are covered…………this would be our 3rd year with no postseason………its not like the end of the world, but Id say we could have done better if some pieces were moved.
Shaun
We are not talking a dropped popup………and you know it. We are talking looking bad at your position. Misjudgement, fear toward runners, lack of concentration, overconfidence. Any IF can make errors………everybody does………..he just makes the must ridiculous once…………on extremely easy plays. That dropped popup is just one of the fishes in the tank………..
By BravesFanInRockies
July 22, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Lew (10:55),
Nice post.
DOB,
Looks like the Braves are a bit like a donut. (Mmm. Donuts.) Solid vets at the ML level who could use some help. Very promising prospects a couple of years away. And a hole in between.
This suggests to me that they could re-sign Kotsay for another year if he’d take a deal like that; he’s insurance if Schafer’s not ready and he’s a perfectly serviceable regular if we have to wait for Gorkys at the ML level.
They may also look at a couple more mid-career vets to fill holes for a year or two until the kids are ready.
By Simmy
July 22, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
www.firejoemorgan.com
By Crazy Stats Katz
July 22, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
After years of trying, they still can’t fire Joe Morgan. DOB, on the other hand, has effed Morganna.
By Simmy
July 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
No one had more game winning hits than A-Rod in 2007.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Should the trade go down:
Quinlan’s a throwaway. Wood looks really good as a SS prospect. He has played some 3B but his power numbers aren’t that great. Maybe the Braves would try to move him to 2B. Does that mean they’d move KJ to another position or trade him?
Rumors are fun.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies, agree with basics of your post. Braves do need to get a couple of veterans to fill needs. Like Doc Holliday pointed out earlier, you can’t just assume the “young blood” is going to fill all your needs. Just doesn’t work out that way. Too many of them go bust, or at least regress or fail to develop according to plans.
By unsupervisedtoddler
July 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
A Major DOB take down. Much better than I could have done my ownself……..
[http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/07/new-criterion-for-being-good-at.html]
By Simmy
July 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
I have to hand it to David O’Brien. He’s basically solved baseball analysis. Come up with a fake term (“impact offensive player”), fake-define it with subjective, self-referential, fake parameters (“from what I’ve seen…big hits when the team needs it,” “performance seems bigger than his numbers,” “key hits,” “I know an impact offensive player”), and presto, you’re Earth’s premier expert on that fake term — no amount of actual baseball information can ever change that.www.firejoemorgan.com
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Shaun
KJ is 3rd in assists…….so is Yunel……………..and TEX leads the league with 911 PO……….thats 82 more than the next 1B………….all it means is that our pitchers get a lot of groundballs………….
KJs ZONE RATING is 17th in MLB……….is that good?
Braves pitching is 2nd in NL in G/F with 1.50, Dodgers are 1st with 1.55 and Cubs are 3rd with 1.12. Thats tons of difference between the 1st 2 and the rest of the league.
Or do you think Braves pitching owe their good G/F stat to KJ???
By Original Jon
July 22, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
That Trade better not go down, i can tell you that. Why would we want two players of that caliber for Tex? Seriously! We better get at least a major league player and 2 prospects for him. Cant see Wren making that move.
By Lew
July 22, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Doc-Yeah, but nothing in the book says we have to run out at the trade deadline and trade all of our kids. We could wait until the offseason and not only make trades, but sign some others-we will have the cash-something not available in recent years-even if there is no payroll boost (can you say $45 mil if Tex leaves?). Why exactly should we pay exorbitant pre-deadline prices for hacks like Nady? Makes no sense whatsoever to me.
A winning streak that puts us back in the thick of things would be wonderful-I would exalt in it. However, leapfrogging three teams, at least one of whom we can’t seem to win against is probably not going to happen. Do you really see one player making the difference in the holes we need filling? Nady? Do you really want to trade for more than one? What would the price be in terms of our future?
Wait until the offseason. Don’t be in such a rush to trade our farm when it is doubtful we will have the horses or inertia to leapfrog said three teams.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Someone didn’t like O’Brien’s analysis, which I must admit wasn’t very well-though out:Braves Fan in Tn.
That was outstanding. Beautifully done, and well-though out, I might add.
Fortunately for me, the vast majority of our readers — you know, actual Braves fans who watch most of the games — agree more with my assessment of the situation than you and your bud who wrote that post. But it was a beaut. I feel honored to have incited that response.
By MGL
July 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
unsupervisedtoddler - I guess that you cannot read properly yet, or your attention span is too short to read the blog above your post. If you had read above, you would see that about 2 dozen other folks have already mentioned this.
By ernesto
July 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Brandon Wood doesn’t bring much in the way of lumber, especially for a 3b, from what I’ve read.
Quinlan’s okay I guess.
You’d think we’d do much better for Tex or take the draft picks and hope for a miracle finish.
Wood and Quinlan = Throwing in the largest towel you can find.
By Steve from OH
July 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
I like how a lot of you need FJM to do your thinking for you. Never saw any of those arguments against DOB’s piece until the FJM post came out. Ah, originality rears its ugly head again here at the MIB blog
By total-e-sports
July 22, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Check out my thoughts at
http://www.total-e-sports.blogspot.com
By ernesto
July 22, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Let’s see Coach, how many handles you have got going this a.m.? Simmy, unsupervisedtoddler, Gregor Fanco, Braves Fan in Tn.
You’re building up quite a fake ground swell there.
Nicely done.
By Lew
July 22, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Simmy-When I was in Graduate School and faced with writing my Master’s Thesis (something that is supposed to prove you an expert in your field), my major professor told me something I’ve never forgotten almost 30 years later.
He told me “To become an expert, all you need to do is come up with a theory, find facts to substantiate your hypothesis write it up and voila, Your And Expert.”
I think David’s observations over the past dozen or so years of covering MLB teams gives him the insight to make him an expert. We all know he can write. If you could come up with facts that might dispute his hypothesis, you might be And Expert, too. Don’t think you could pass your written exams, though.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
I actually watch most, if not all of the Braves games on t.v. and have for over twenty years. DOB, just admit it was not a very well-thought out analysis. You completely ignore the fact that the only person that has been hitting with any authority (and I’m not talking about Chipper’s singles) in the last few weeks has been Tex and McCann. Perhaps an informed response to the FireJoeMorgan blog would be appropriate - isn’t that the point of blogs, including yours? How can you not call Tex clutch, especially in light of what he did for this team (basically carrying it), the last half of last year, after he was acquired. Last time I checked, he leads the team in homeruns, rbi’s and plays everyday. Don’t say because he is a notoriously slow starter (and has been his entire career) that he isn’t clutch - you of all people shouldn’t say that when you constantly get on this blog and remind the faithful that we shouldn’t worry about how the Braves do in April since it is a long season (should I pull up those blogs where you essentially say that). Shouldn’t the same hold true for Tex, especially in light of what he showed last year in the second-half and at least to me, in the last 6 weeks or so? I’ve read your blog for over 2 years and usually agree with you on most everything (including your music picks) but this was the first time that I felt that I had to respond, mostly because it just wasn’t an informed analysis.
By Cecil34
July 22, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
DOB
I agree with your assessment of Tex, and of course if I agree, then that is all that matters, isn’t it, ol’ buddy?
By unsupervisedtoddler
July 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
MGL - Well excuuuuuuuuse me. No I did not take the time to read EVERY SINGLE POST before I posted mine. Brain starts turning to mush after awhile from reading such insightful comments such as yours. It was just so great that I needed to share it. Thanks for your concern about my attention span & reading abilities.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
I actually watch most, if not all of the Braves games on t.v. and have for over twenty years. DOB, just admit it was not a very well-thought out analysis. You completely ignore the fact that the only person that has been hitting with any authority (and I’m not talking about Chipper’s singles) in the last few weeks has been Tex and McCann. Perhaps an informed response to the FireJoeMorgan blog would be appropriate - isn’t that the point of blogs, including yours? How can you not call Tex clutch, especially in light of what he did for this team (basically carrying it), the last half of last year, after he was acquired. Last time I checked, he leads the team in homeruns, rbi’s and plays everyday. Don’t say because he is a notoriously slow starter (and has been his entire career) that he isn’t clutch - you of all people shouldn’t say that when you constantly get on this blog and remind the faithful that we shouldn’t worry about how the Braves do in April since it is a long season (should I pull up those blogs where you essentially say that). Shouldn’t the same hold true for Tex, especially in light of what he showed last year in the second-half and at least to me, in the last 6 weeks or so? I’ve read your blog for over 2 years and usually agree with you on most everything (including your music picks) but this was the first time that I felt that I had to respond, mostly because it just wasn’t an informed analysis.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Much better than I could have done my ownself.unsupervisedtoddler
Yes, that goes without saying.
Someone didn’t like O’Brien’s analysis, which I must admit wasn’t very well-though out:Braves Fan in Tn.
That was outstanding. Beautifully done, and well-though out, I might add.
Fortunately for me, the vast majority of our readers — you know, actual Braves fans who watch most of the games — agree more with my assessment of the situation than you and your bud who wrote that post. But it was a beaut. I feel honored to have incited that response.
By the way, speaking of well-though out, you said the last few games you’ve watched, Tex has carried the team. Really? Then I gotta ask, do you watch more than one game a week?
Here’s what Braves have done in last 10 — repeat, TEN — games, and what Tex has done. You tell me who carried them to what in that span.
— July 7, 3-0 loss to Dodgers (Tex 1-for-3)
— July 8, 9-3 win vs. Dodgers (Tex 1-for-5, HR, 1 RBI; McCann 2-for-5, 2 HRs, 2 RBI).
— July 9, 2-1 loss to Dodgers (Tex 0-for-3, no RBI).
— July 11, 4-0 loss to Padres (Tex 0-for-4).
— July 12, 4-1 win vs. Padres (Tex 1-for-4, no RBI; Chipper 3-for-4, Fracouer 2-for-4, 2 RBI).
— July 13, 12-3 win vs. Padres (Tex 2-for-5, 2 RBI; McCann 3-for-3, HR, 3 RBI; Lillibridge 3-for-5, 2 RBI).
— July 18, 7-6 win vs. Nats (Tex 1-for-2, no RBI; McCann 1-for-4, 3 RBI; Lillibridge 2-for-4, 2 RBI).
— July 19, 8-2 loss to Nats (Tex 1-for-3, no RBI; Chipper 1 RBI; Norton 1 RBI).
— July 20, 15-6 loss to Nats (Tex 3-for-4, 2 HRs, 3 RBI).
— July 21, 4-0 win vs. Marlins (2-for-4, 1 RBI; Kotsay 2-for-4, 1 RBI; Chipper 1 RBI, Prado 1-for-1, 1 RBI; Campillo and two relievers, two-hit shutout).
Now, Braves Fan in Tn., I’m not suggesting you don’t watch many or any games, but if, as you say, Tex carried the team in the last few games you’ve watched, how long a span do we have to go back to get those “few games?”
Well-though out, indeed.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Lew
Agree……..thumbs up to you. But I never said we had to give up all of our farm.
I would give up JF and 1 of our kids for Nady though……..its worth try.
And as I mentioned before………maybe we can ship Chuck and JF for Nady and some prospect……….pitching.
It could be a win win trade for both teams.
And yes……..I think we are 1 or 2 players away from going .666 the rest of the way…………meaning JF has to go or be benched. So getting a good bat could mean the end of our 1 run defeats………
By keith
July 22, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
the baseball anti-christ never lets a client re-sign with the same club. Trade him now
By Pain
July 22, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
snap-billed mreetwass! I knew I’d find you.
By P-Town Brave
July 22, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
This is very true, but Bobby’s idea of veterans are players like Greg Norton…and then he tries to play them all the time…
I’m sorry, but I can speak for everyone else when I say we’re so very tired of Norton…
My idea is to find a taker for Kelly after the year…maybe we could ship Chuck w/ him…
See if you can then talk Edgar Renteria into coming back at a lesser salary and to play 2b…imagine putting Esco and Rent in the lineup together…
Besides, theres nowhere else that Edgar was a comfortable as being in Atlanta…
If that couldn’t happen, see about Prado or Lilly taking over…
As you can tell, I’ve also grown tired of the Kelly Johnson circus at 2b…not only is his glove awful, but his bat has a glaring HOLE in it!
While I’m at it, I may be another to suggest a new coaching staff or at least hitting coach, bench coach, and 3b coach…most notably, hitting coach…
Can anyone tell me who he has helped on the team?
If you’re taking a long time to figure out an answer, thats because there isn’t one…
‘Nuff said!
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
So Tex is hitting .317 (12/37) in his last 10 games wtih 3 hrs. and 7 rbi’s - that’s not too bad. Just using the stats you posted - can you tell me if any brave (except possibly McCann) has done any better? No - you can’t. And the time period that I was using was roughly the past 6 weeks, since at least the beginning of June. Check your stats before you post them to prove your point, which you didn’t.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
So Tex is hitting .317 (12/37) in his last 10 games wtih 3 hrs. and 7 rbi’s - that’s not too bad. Just using the stats you posted - can you tell me if any brave (except possibly McCann) has done any better? No - you can’t. And the time period that I was using was roughly the past 6 weeks, since at least the beginning of June. Check your stats before you post them to prove your point, which you didn’t.
By psychranger
July 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Hey bloggers. I had some interesting things I wanted to share but just got hit in the head by a ball thrown by Francouer towards home plate…and I live in Marietta.
By P-Town Brave
July 22, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
Looks to me like lots of Mac w/ a little Chipper and Lilly sprinkled in…
BTW…are you for keeping Lilly and sending out Ruben when Omar gets activated tonight or tomorrow?
By fastasballs
July 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
The more I think about the Braves were basically stuck with this year’s team. There was too much money tied up in players who will be off the books next season. The one big signing was Glavine because at that point starting pitching probably looked like more of a pressing need, based on the previous season.
I’m sure they hoped Diaz, Kotsay & Frenchy was a productive outfield, but in all seriousness if the money was there other would have been signed, at least a left fielder.
The way the team is constructed now a lot is expected from Frenchy & KJ. With an addition of a big bat for LF it should make their roles a little less as far as expectations.
There is a huge drop off in production after Chipper, McCann & Tex. McCann can only play 80% of the time so that’s a big chunk of the offense that’s out every fifth day or so.
I think their is a good base of young players, but there needs to be some vets brought in. There should be plenty of money to go out get what is needed & with the farm being stocked it can be done via trade as well.
As others mentioned the Braves have a great history or trading prospects for team needs. With the exception of maybe Wainwright, none of the prospects have ever panned out. At least the trade of Wainwright brought Drew who did have a very good season to get them to the playoffs in 2005. Had they won the series that year nobody would be complaining about that deal, well on second thought………..
For 2009 I expect some big changes on this roster. Vets for the bench is a must. It’s sad to see guys like Miller, Orr, Woodward, Gotay, Thorman, etc as our bench guys the past several years. Also completely depending on guys who have consistent injury problems does not help. Once again with the payroll, there wasn’t much else Wren could do. Contracts have to play out before major moves are made & finally in 2009 we should see those changes.
The Braves are not built to contend & haven’t been the past few seasons. We all HOPED they would, but deep down most of us know it wouldn’t happen as presently constructed. Regardless it’s fun to watch the games & keep track of the farm system.
By Rob Neyer
July 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
*Last few games, I’ve seen, Tex has been carrying this team. *
Yes, and Jeff Francoeur has just been unlucky this season. He keeps hitting the ball right at that shortstop, every time he doesn’t swing and miss at that breaking pitch off the plate.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
No Ernesto, this is not Coach - I can’t stand the guy.
P-Town Brave, stop being led by the collar - Lilly had a good 2-3 game stretch but certainly isn’t the answer. Chipper, as much as I love the guy, hasn’t been able to do much since before the All-Star break. DOB’s stats don’t help his case.
By N8
July 22, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
DOB
Yikes. You go all out after a blogger (which is always funny - even when it’s me you’re going after), but when all is said and done, your 12:04 just shows how over-rated Tex and his “stats” are.
Come crunch time (and I would call the past 10 games - along with the 80 or so before them crunch time), the dude has continued to disappoint.
The one constant for him all year, has been his defense. I can’t knock that. He’s shown the leather. But as we all know going back to Andruw, guys (other than Francoeur), can still show the leather when not hitting the ball well.
Either way. Well done on your Tex….er…..Braves Fan in Tn bashing.
By unsupervisedtoddler
July 22, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
psychranger…Good one. I’ve actually started looking forward to a JF throw just to see where it’s going to go. Has he thrown a catchable ball to 3rd or home in the last 18 months? Braves need to issue warnings to patrons sitting behind the 3rb base dugout.
By txrangerfan
July 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Dear Braves Fans:
Thank you for Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, and Beau Jones. I’m not going to include Jarrod Saltalamacchia b/c we don’t really like him here.
You guys are saying the same stuff we said a year ago, only thing is we have a better record and got 3 outstanding prospects.
Once again, THANK YOU!
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday, compare KJ’s zone rating, etc. to other secondbaseman. Different positions are different. So comparing KJ to shortstops and secondbaseman tell us nothing.
And KJ still, with all the opportunities, has made 10 errors. That’s not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. The fact that the Braves get a lot of ground balls makes those errors look less bad. Again, not saying KJ is a good secondbaseman. But he is adequate and not horrible like many think, based on the evidence I’m seeing. And even from watching him, most of the time he makes plays.
As far as Francoeur, the way it’s going I still say Francoeur has a decent shot to become a halfway productive player within the next couple of seasons. I agree that he’s not going to be a superstar and I think there’s a good chance he’ll never be an all-star. But I think he’ll eventually be decent.
You may not have said that we’ve seen the best but you did already label him a failure, even though he’s only 24.
Steve from OH, here is what I wrote yesterday before I even knew about the FJM piece. Probably before it was thought of:
DOB said, “A-Rod’s the highest paid player in the game, and many will tell you he’s the best player in the game. But he’s not the player I would build a team around if I could have any player. No way.”
My post: DOB, I think this is right because of A-Rod’s age and salary (although this doesn’t matter to the Yankees). His career clutch numbers are just fine, so I don’t think it’s about big hits or anything like that.
Same with Teixeira. Same with a lot of other high-paid players or players who can command a huge contract.
By KC
July 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Didn’t read back to see if anyone else mentioned it, but… Gonzo hit 96mph on the gun last night. Good sign, if accurate.
By Lew
July 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Doc-Dude, you are SO wrong about a trade of Francoeur for Nady.
You base your disgust with Frenchy on a bad ONE HALF of a season, when he has been successful for three prior to this. Yet you elevate the status of Nady based on a good ONE HALF season, when the rest of his SEVEN YEAR career is indicative of nothing but a fourth outfielder.
Dude, include the fact that Nady is more expensive and considerably older (in the scheme of things) than both Francoeur AND Reyes, both of whom are under 25 and under contractual control (CHEAP) for three to five more years and one wonders what substances of which you have partaken . This is perplexing in the extreme. Add to this that you think an inclusion of JoJo Reyes is in order and I have to wonder about your sanity.
Two starting ML players for a fourth outfielder who will not even begin to address our needs. As McFann would say-SHEESH!!!!!
By brent a.
July 22, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
*So Tex is hitting .317 (12/37) in his last 10 games wtih 3 hrs. and 7 rbi’s - that’s not too bad. Just using the stats you posted - can you tell me if any brave (except possibly McCann) has done any better? No - you can’t. And the time period that I was using was roughly the past 6 weeks, since at least the beginning of June. Check your stats before you post them to prove your point, which you didn’t. *
67% of his home-runs and 43% of his RBI in that stretch came in a 15-6 loss on Sunday.
In the other 9 games, he his 1 HR with 4 RBI and the team went 5-4.
So, back to the question, who has carried them to what?
Even if other Braves aren’t doing better, does that justify paying the man $18 - $20 million per year?
No one is saying Tex isn’t good. But, the Braves really aren’t good, and tough decisions have to be made accordingly.
By Jonathon
July 22, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
DOB -
Any comment on this St. Paul Pioneer Press rumor of Tex for Brandon Wood and Rob Quinlan?
Total bunk?
Good deal?
Bad deal?
By knowitall
July 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan in TN, your 12:16 post just confirmed what DOB said in the original blog. Tex piles up the stats but they aren’t impact stats. Yes, those are good numbers over the last 10 games. But, when you look at the impact on those individual games, it has been minimal. I mean I like Tex and I hope that by some miracle the Braves can keep him. But at the same time you could remove his “stats” from the last 10 games and I don’t think the outcome would change.
By Lee in S GA
July 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
fasterballs
That 12:28 post sums it up in a nutshell. Good post.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies, agree with basics of your post. Braves do need to get a couple of veterans to fill needs. Like Doc Holliday pointed out earlier, you can’t just assume the “young blood” is going to fill all your needs. Just doesn’t work out that way. Too many of them go bust, or at least regress or fail to develop according to plans.
Right. But it’s a bad idea to overspend on veterans.
Young players are sort of a necessary “evil.” Sure they’re risky but if you don’t have a lot of young, cheap, good players, it’s going to be pretty tough (unless you’re a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs or Angels).
For example, there isn’t a firstbaseman the Braves can rely on for next season or quite possibly beyond (assuming of course they lose Tex). But having all that “young blood” makes it possible that the Braves can trade for or sign a better one than they could otherwise.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan in Tn: I like your persistence. You’re completely wrong, of course, but I like the persistence.
By Steve from OH
July 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
Didn’t see your post, but my point wasn’t directed at you, rather, it was directed at the large influx of new bloggers using the FJM post to bash DOB. I probably should have figured you would have added something intelligent to the conversation by now though. My bad.
Anyway, I think both parties in this case have a valid argument, in that DOB is correct that Tex hasn’t carried this team like we’d hoped, and FJM is correct in that this team would be much worse without Tex than they are now, and that regardless of his “clutch ability” (or percieved lack thereof), he’s still very good at baseball and very valuable to the team. Perhaps Tex’s great production and lack of “team carrying ability” is more coincidence than a true reflection of Tex’s ability.
By brent a.
July 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Lew,
While I really liked Frenchy up until this season (and could very well like him again), many people did not view his 2006 campaign as “successful”, as you have deemed it above.
In fact, I believe in some respects, his numbers in 2006 were viewed to be among the worst of any everyday OF in MLB that year.
But, I really didn’t care for those numbers. :) I just remembered the way he stepped up and hit that walk-off grand slam to beat the Nationals, and then a few days later, hit a solo shot off of Dontrelle Willis to send a game to extra innings, which the Braves ended up winning.
Even if his OBP was low, the guy used to seem like a real player, and had a penchant for the dramatic that made him exciting to watch.
He seems to have lost that. Let’s hope he gets it back.
By brent a.
July 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Lew,
While I really liked Frenchy up until this season (and could very well like him again), many people did not view his 2006 campaign as “successful”, as you have deemed it above.
In fact, I believe in some respects, his numbers in 2006 were viewed to be among the worst of any everyday OF in MLB that year.
But, I really didn’t care for those numbers. :) I just remembered the way he stepped up and hit that walk-off grand slam to beat the Nationals, and then a few days later, hit a solo shot off of Dontrelle Willis to send a game to extra innings, which the Braves ended up winning.
Even if his OBP was low, the guy used to seem like a real player, and had a penchant for the dramatic that made him exciting to watch.
He seems to have lost that. Let’s hope he gets it back.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
N8, actually Tex’s clutch or crunch time production overall is pretty good.
The things that make Tex undesirable to most teams is his likely contract demands, his age and the fact that he is not an elite offensive firstbaseman.
By mitchie-san
July 22, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Dudes, this is a freakin baseball blog, not “the view” or some baseball p*ssing contest. Relax, the DOB bashing is old and tired. All he tries to do is give us some insight on the team. This blog is always helpful and informative. Why does everyone feel like they must split hairs? Read the damn blog and DOB’s OPINION, and simply form you own. I’m here to read his, not yours.
By semiballcoach
July 22, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
all you need to say is opposing managers walked chipper to pitch to tex…how often do they walk other 3 hitters to pitch to 4 hitters?
By Joe
July 22, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Fire Joe Morgan (website) took you to task for this one, Dave.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/07/new-criterion-for-being-good-at.html
By Lew
July 22, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
brent a-Any time a player knocks in 100 runs in a season, I think some success was achieved. What I think the problem is is the Sports Illustrated cover and how he broke in on fire. Had the expectations been for another Pat Burrell as opposed to another ARod, no one would have griped in the least.
Francoeur is the player that he is and nothing more. People’s expectations are at fault. I think once he gets his mechanics back in order (and yes, they are all whacked out, for sure), he will be a productive player once again. 100 RBI’s should spell production in ANYONE’S book and production spells success. Just because Fans expect he should hit more Home Runs or have a higher average shouldn’t figure into it. Results and production do. This year is his first as a non producing player.
By JC
July 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Tex in his past 10 games
BA / OBP / SLG / OPS .324 / .390 / .703 / 1.093
2008 “Clutch” stats
Split OPS 2 outs, RISP: 0.897 Late & Close: 1.192 Tie Game: 0.752 Within 1 Run : 0.879 Within 2 Run: 0.856 Within 3 Run : 0.886 Within 4 Run: 0.901 Margin > 4 Run: 0.830
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Steve, yeah, I think FJM was right but of course they are harsh in the way they make their arguments (as that’s their shtick).
I agree with DOB that Tex is not the player you want to build around. I think we just disagree on the primary reasons.
By Josh H
July 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Really hope that trade rumor isn’t true…
If we can’t get anything better than that for Tex, keep him until the end of the year.
By Dave
July 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
ALL CONCERNED:
ON TRADING TEXIERA - This is a no-brainer, IF Frank Wren can get value for him, like a pitching prospect that will help the Braves NEXT year plus a position player (preferably a first baseman) who can replace him next year.
Some teams HAS to be willing to pay the price that is MUCH BETTER than the two draft choices the Braves are GUARANTEED to get if Mark Texiera plays out his option and becomes a free agent.
There is NO GUARANTEE that any team would be willing to do that.
ON FRANCEOUR’S BAD FIRST HALF: It has been said before and will be said again - Baseball is a HUMBLING game! EVERY position player in the Hall of Fame has had a bad streak like this sometime in their career. Frenchy WILL snap out of it eventually. It may be too late for this year, but this kid STILL has the potential of being another Dale Murphy, and I do not think ANYONE in the Braves’ organization is willing to give up on him just yet.
I DO know that if Fran Wren offered Franceour in trade, virtualy EVERY team in MLB would be calling and making an offer!
ON 2009 AND BEYOND: The young pitching rotation looks like it may be ready to take over for Smoltz, Glavine and Hampton, all of whom probably will NOT be back next year.
I hope that is not the case, but let’s get real. Smoltz’s chances of coming back from that shoulder surgery are 50-50 at best. Glavine is showing his age, and NO ONE in his right mind will sign Hampton given his injury history unless…
He comes back next month, starts 15 games and wins ten of them in a Braves run to the playoffs. I know, wishful thinking, but looking at what the Rockies did LAST YEAR, it IS possible.
As for the position players, we need a first baseman and two outfielders. Frank Wren will need to address those needs, either with a Texiera trade or in the off-season.
Just my humble opinion…
By Lew
July 22, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
I wonder how much Boras paid the Fire Morgan site to dispute DOB’s conclusions? Not too good for Free Agent business if knowledgeable writers point out how NOT clutch the guy you expect to get $22+ million for for half a lifetime is.
By VolBrave
July 22, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
Absolutley my favorite Bobby Keen song! Great tune…
Also, did you catch the part on Generation Kill where the guys were trying to figure out the words to “Merry Christmas From The Family?” I’m sure you did b/c only us true REK fans would have caught it.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
DOB, I appreciate the back-handed compliment. Now, let’s talk about music, like how the new Tom Petty side project album Mudcrutch, rocks, as does the Fleet Foxes album and as you mentioned the Whiskeytown reissue. May I also recommend picking up the Dennis Wilson reissue along a couple of recent goodies, Rosie Thomas and Gary Louris. No disrespect to you whatsoever, just a disagreement of the minds re Tex. Whenever you find yourself in Nashville, skip the Loveless and let’s get some bar-b-q at Judge Bean’s.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
OK Shaun………I´ll leave KJ alone for a while……….
Nobody is asking the Braves to overspend on veterans………..but as DOB said (kind of), we cant expect the whole team to be built around rookies…………we have to create a balance.
Lew
I dont see you making any comments on sending Chuck and JF for Nady and a good prospect???
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Lew, actually here are some things Fire Joe Morgan pointed out, so obviously they aren’t in bed with Boras or anything:
1) He has a career home/away OPS split of .955/.859, so some team paying for his fat home run totals and ostentatious slugging percentages may be being a little misled by the Ballpark at Arlington.
2) He plays first base, where you can usually find some decent hitting, and decent power hitting at that.
3) The first base thing means his defense, which is very good, is perhaps not all that valuable.
4) He will get something like 7 years, $140 million, and he’s not quite on that super-elite near-1.000 OPS-hitting level of guys like Pujols or A-Rod or (pre-2008) Miguel Cabrera.
5) He’ll be 29 next year, so in your megadeal for him you’re going to be getting some 34- or 35-year-old Tex in there.
By McFann :Ō:
July 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Poll Question
Who would you like to see win the Mets-Fillies game tonight?
A) Mets
B) Fillies
C) Couldn’t Care Less
By JC
July 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Tex’s Career Clutch stats
Split: OPS,
2 outs, RISP: 1.067, Late & Close: 0.915, Tie Game: 0.896, Within 1 R: 0.881, Within 2 R: 0.893, Within 3 R: 0.885, Within 4 R: 0.895, Margin > 4 R: 0.972
I’m just putting the numbers out there. I don’t believe in clutch play as a talent, but he certainly doesn’t appear to bad in the clutch.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
VolBrave, that was hilarious, that scene in Generation Kill. I couldn’t believe I was hearing it, but then, the director/writer also used great music in The Wire.
By N8
July 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I realize that Tex’s RISP numbers and late and close stats are above average.
But by “crunch time”, I mean when the chips are down (or Chipper is down), and SOMEBODY needs to step up and carry the offense, Tex is NOT up to the task.
Dude didn’t do JACK in April and May. 10 more RBI in crucial 1-run games in those two months, and we might be IN first place.
That could be said for everybody in the lineup. But he is the only one that is gonna command 20+ million dollars after this season.
Based on what I’ve SEEN of him in the past year, he is NOT the guy to build this franchise around for the next half decade for the money he’s gonna command.
As good as his numbers are, he’s not even the best hitter on his current teams infield.
Steve from OH
“Perhaps Tex’s great production and lack of “team carrying ability” is more coincidence than a true reflection of Tex’s ability.”
Coincidentally, Tex’s teams have NEVER made the playoffs. If it is justified for people to rag on Arod for post-season failures, the way that Bonds was ripped for “choking” come October, then it is fair to say, based on past results, Tex isn’t capable of carrying an offense to October. Ironically, the Texas teams that had BOTH Arod and Tex couldn’t get their either.
I’m not saying Tex is a bad player. That would be silly. But he ain’t worth 20-25 million per season.
If he IS, than what is a guy like Chipper or Jeter “worth”? I realize that supply and demand (along with ridiculous owners and GM’s willing to throw money around to the agents making ridiculous demands), dictates “worth”.
But based on the 75-79 record since acquiring Tex, I’m not so sure he’s “the man”. In fact, I’m POSITIVE he’s not the 25 million dollar man.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
for all the trade JF naysayers, check Murph’s 4th season stats. even though it was the strike year, there is a huge dropoff in offensive performance.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Lew
JF has been in decline………..is not like 60 games………the league has his number…………everybody.
Come on face it…………..what do you do when he comes to bat? what are your thoughts???
What are your thoughts once he hits a popup or a weak grounder to the infield???
What are your thoughts once he kills a rally???
He came up from the minors hacking…………they were throwing strikes at him………….that lasted about 1 year and a half…………..after that……….everybody figured him out, know all they throw at him is down and away and up the ladder……………up his eyes………..
he has not been able to adjust to something that its as clear as sun………How much time do braves wait??? what would you do???
How much more would you wait before parting ways??? Seriously…………Whats your answer to those questions???
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Doc, who said rely on rookies? McCann, Escobar, Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Blanco, Jurrjens will not be rookies. And obviously the Braves are going to have to acquire a firstbaseman who will likely not be a rookie. They may go after a leftfielder who will not be a rookie.
But most teams need a lot of quality players between 25-30 if they want to make a big push. There is just no way around it without completely setting back your franchise for a decade or so.
By N8
July 22, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
For one, a website titled “fire” anybody, loses ALL credibility, IMO.
2nd. If they’ve formed that opinion because the have watched ALL of the Braves games, then more power to them.
My guess is they haven’t. Which means they are making assumptions based on his STATS. Which, like the other day, are often accumulated in MEANINGLESS moments.
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize that Tex is good enough to hit HR’s in a game when his team is trailing 12-3 and the opposing pitchers are more than likely being told to NOT walk batters, but challenge them.
But that would be expecting somebody writing for a website titled firejoemorgan.com, to actually have the intelligence to figure that out, watch the games, and dig deeper than the stats.
Numbers or not. Tex has failed us this year. PERIOD. No matter what Scott Boras or firejoemorgan.com says.
As somebody who has either watched or listened live to all of the games this year (and DVR’d the ones that I couldn’t), DOB is absolutely DEAD ON in his latest article about Tex.
Similar to Andruw before him, he has CHOKED in his walk year. The only difference is, is that he’s put up the numbers a little better than Andruw, and due to a weak free agent class, will STILL get his money (just as Andruw did), from some desperate team.
I hope that WHEN (not if), he starts off slow next April and May playing in NY, Boston, Chicago, Baltimore or L.A., that the nastiness that’s gonna come his way, will not put him or his family in danger.
If firejoemorgan.com thinks DOB is being hard on him, they haven’t seen NOTHING yet.
Of course, by then, he and Boras will have made their money, so who gives a sh!t, right?
By THWG
July 22, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Dave you sure know how to dream. I simply can’t see Glavine even starting 15 games, much less winning 10. While I think most people are counting out the Braves too soon, I also think that FW needs to really think about the future beyond 2008.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Mc
Of course we need the muts to win.
Phillies are the team to beat…………we can take care of the muts later…………They are more injured than us.
The phillies have 4 guys on DL………..only Gordon is key to them and he aint that much of a factor anymore.
The muts have…………..
Alou ————— OFS
Castillo————DL
Church—————DL
Pagan.—————OFS
Pedro—————-injured day to day but he aint a factor
Nixxon————-DL
Wagner————injured………theyll perform MRI………sounds like he is not OK.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
N8, see JC’s posts. Clearly Tex’s numbers in the clutch are good.
And I agree with you that Tex isn’t the guy most if any franchise should build around. But I don’t think it has much to do with his clutch numbers. It has to do with age, abilities and contract demands. No question he’s not worth what he’ll likely get, at least not to the Braves.
Doc, I don’t know if Francoeur is in decline. Again, he’s only 24. His strikeout rate is actually lower than it was last season and his walk rate is almost the same.
By Adam LaRoche
July 22, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Okay, I know why so many of you are happy to see Tex leave, you just don’t want to say it.
Tex is prissy. He runs like a girl, is always adjusting his cup, and makes “posturing” faces that indicate an over-awareness of the fact that he’s probably on TV.
As talented as he is, he’s been a little bit difficult to embrace, and (perhaps because he’s known all along that he’s leaving at the end of this season), he hasn’t really shown a very strong public personality, meaning that he’s been hard to get to know, and thus, no one will really miss him when he’s gone.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
JC - thanks for the stats to back up my assertion.
N8 - what the hell is “when the chips are down” I bet you think “hustle” and “letting it all hang out” mean more than homeruns, runs and wins. Saying someone is or isn’t clutch is such a subjective statement - let’s look at the stats and develop some objectivity instead of making broad generalities. And I’m not a moneyball guy, but I’ll take those numbers over “hustle” and “grittiness” and “crunch time” any day.
By bravos2249
July 22, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Yankees, Jeter finalize 10-year, $189 million deal
Jeter contract details Signing bonus: $16 million, paid in $1 million installments on Jan. 30 and June 30 from 2001-2008 (first installment paid upon approval of contract by commissioner’s office)
2001: $11 million 2002: $13 million 2003: $14 million 2004: $17 million 2005: $18 million 2006: $19 million 2007: $20 million 2008: $20 million 2009: $20 million 2010: $21 million
No Trade Clause: Player may not be traded without his permission.
You can still give Tex a big contract that averages 20 million but not pay him 20 million untill 2011
I honestly don’t think he’ll get more than 20 million avg per season…if another team offers 23 million avg per season, another team like the Braves or whoever can make that up in bonuses.
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Not rookies but too young players…………..
Point is……..Shaun we need to get OFs……..lots of them.
JF is not the answer
Matt Diaz is not the answer and now he is injured………I read he doesnt thinks he will play 100% again this year………..so that might tell us he is not OK……….and he was not doing good while he was OK.
Kotsay is not the answer……….he needs to be platooned because of his back.
Blanco is not the answer………..he is not ready for the show on the everyday basis.
BJ is not ready…….he is a kid
Anderson is not the answer………..no experience……….
So as we speak………..we dont have a single answer in the OF…………and let me remind you there are 3 positions to fill…………
What are they going to do about it?
JF was given a chance………..let others have their chance also……….if not sending him away at least benching him………a lot.
By McFann :Ō:
July 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Doc—
I thought I heard something about Wagner. That can’t be good (for them).
I was kinda leaning towards “wanting” the Mets to win, just wanted to see what some of the other denizens thought about it.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
N8, actually firejoemorgan.com was pretty tough on Tex as well. I think there problem is that Tex is actually not a bad clutch hitter. And as JC has pointed out in his posts, Tex hasn’t put up bad clutch numbers at all.
Don’t know if you actually read it but the piece they wrote was far from Tex or Scott Boras-friendly. In fact, they are just as hard on Tex as you and DOB are; just for different reasons.
By Steve from OH
July 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
N8, I disagree. While it is true that Tex’s teams have never made the playoffs, it can’t be logically inferred that it is “because” of Tex or that it is Tex’s “fault.” I mean, look at the pitching Texas has had for the last 2-3 years (AL rank in parentheses). 2007 team ERA-4.75 (11). 2006-4.60 (8). 2005-4.96 (12). I’m sorry N8, but when you consistently rank in the bottom (or lower bottom) half of the league in ERA, then no single hitter is going to carry you into the playoffs. Also (and I know that you didn’t bring this up, but others have), people make the claim “oh, but Texas has a better record than us this year. Tex must suck!” Wrong. Texas is outperforming their pythagorean record by 5 games so far this year (W/L: 52-48, pythag: 48-53). Expect them to regress in the 2nd half. They’ve given up 33 more runs than they’ve scored. I’m sorry, Texas is not a better team w/o Tex.
Anyway, back to your post, N8. I couldn’t disagree more with your logic about “If its fair to bash Arod, its fair to bash Tex for not carrying us” (I’m paraphrasing). Not true. Not only is it completely unfair to bash A-Rod for his postseason “failures” (I’ll get to that in a sec), we can’t assume that A-Rod and Tex’s situations are the same. I mean, I really don’t understand how you can compare postseason “failure” to “carrying your team to October.” You carry your team to October by playing good baseball. Tex is good at playing baseball (which you said).
A-Rod, career, October, series-by-series: 1997 ALDS: 5-16, 1 HR, .313/.313/.563 (Very Good)
2000 ALDS: 4-13, .308/.308/.308 (Eh)
2000 ALCS: 9-22, 2 HR, .409/.480/.773 (Monster)
2004 ALDS: 8-19, 1 HR, .421/.476/.737 (Monster)
2004 ALCS: 8-31, 2 HR, .258/.378/.516 (Very Good)
2005 ALDS: 2-15, .133/.381/.200 (Bad, though he got on base)
2006 ALDS: 1-14, .071/.071/.071 (Terrible
And yes, I did take this breakdown from FJM, but them’s the numbers. Explain again how A-Rod’s postseason’s have been “failures?”
By THWG
July 22, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Adam LaRoche - I understand where you’re coming at. Tex is strictly business when it comes to baseball, which does make it difficult for the public to get to really know him. However, he is a sort of local guy, having played his college ball at the school which I attend. It would be nice to keep him at 1B because he is a solid player. However, he isn’t worth the $20 mil that Boras will most likely be asking. I will miss having him in a Braves uni, but I also believe we can get good return.
By David O'Brien
July 22, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan in Tn, I really like the Mudcrutch and Fleet Foxes CDs, haven’t heard the Brian Wilson reissue.
Judge Bean’s, huh? Have to try that when next in Nashvegas. Where’s it located?
Oh, by the way, NEW BLOG IS UP, folks
By Doc Holliday
July 22, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
I will make a prediction……….
I say that TEX leaves atlanta, and wherever he goes, he will drive in 120+ runs. He will also hit 40+ HR and hit Above .300
By bravos2249
July 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Todd Helton is also going to be making some money soon, from his 11 yr deal….the 6th richest to date.
16.6 in ‘09 & ‘10 19.1 in ‘11 and a 23 option in ‘12
By SCJ102
July 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Wow, Fan in TN, we didn’t realize this was your domain!
Move over DOB.
…
By monty
July 22, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Not that I need to take up for Tex, sure I was disappointed at his first 50 games or so, but he simply did what he has always done early in the season,namely, not hit as good as he does in the second half. As of now he is doing what he always has, tearing the cover off the ball in the 2nd half. He will be a great addition to some competitive team, he plays awesome defence too, but I con’t see us being able to keep him.
By Shaun
July 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Doc, if the Braves give up on Francoeur at age 24 or 25, is that really giving him a chance?
I agree, Braves need a firstbaseman and a leftfielder.
By Chop Chop
July 22, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Kinda fun to see the FJM folks take a swipe at DOB, but my guess is that they never read the blog and don’t really know how often DOB has to fight off the knuckleheads who don’t think Tex is much of a player. DOB’s been very complimentary of Tex since he was acquired. Ol’ FJM is just used to the “A-Rod isn’t a true Yankee/doesn’t hit enough in the clutch” arguments made against Alex Rodriguez in the NYC and national media. When a truly high-caliber player like Tex looks like he’s being criticized for when he gets his stats during the season and ballgames, it sets off an FJM alarm. FJM will nearly always go overboard in picking a particular column/blog apart, so that’s no surprise.
I will say this, though:
If a player is going to be paid $20 million-plus by a team that isn’t at the top in payroll, he damn well better be the franchise type of guy. DOB is absolutely spot-on there.
By jed
July 22, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
tex’s 2nd half with the braves last year was phenomenal. no doubt. but how anyone can watch what he’s done for us from april to july 22 and think that guy is worth 8 years at 23 million a year…that’s just absurd.
if he played all year like he did last august & september, then maybe he’d be worth it. but i wouldnt give the guy 10 mil/per for what he’s done from april to now.
By Braves Fan in Tn.
July 22, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, here’s the link for Judge Bean’s. If you like brisket, this is the place bar-none. Their other stuff is mighty fine as well. Good tunes in the jukebox too:
http://www.judgebeans.com/
By the way, it is a Dennis Wilson reissue, not Brian. The Beach Boy drummer was quite a talent himself.
By DonCoburleone
July 22, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
DOB I usually agree with your analysis on hitting and stats in general, but I hate the argument that a player only produces in garbage time or when it doesn’t matter. The single greatest thing a player can do in an at-bat is hit a home run, regardless of situation or score or whatever… So how do you downgrade that just because the Braves are down by 6 or up by 12 or down by 1? A-Rod always gets nailed for this, and yet, no-one gives A Rod credit for CARRYING the Yankees to the playoffs last season. Go ahead and try to find stats from last year that say anything different.
By Bobby's Cox
July 22, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
DOB is right. It’s easy to downgrade a player for not producing in the clutch. Tex’s numbers this year have been a joke. Even Yahoo! ripped Tex after his 3 HR game and when surpassed the 50 RBI mark, questioning where those ruby’s came from.
FYI, the Braves are having a historically bad year in 1-run games, and Tex’s performance in those games has been non-existent. Where are his 19 HR and 73 RBI’s in those games? OB’s list of the last ten games and Tex’s performance in those games is a microcosm for what Tex has done all year. Pretty sad.
I’m not impressed. For a guy that wants 22+ million a year, Tex needs to produce even more. He needs to see the ball better in 3-1, 4-3, 2-1 games, and less in 15-5 9th inning deficits. Trade him, cause there’s no way this team should pay him.
By Keith
July 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Wow. I see a lot of fair weather fans here. Frenchy is having a tough season but he is still young, no need to rush him. The whole Tex situation is what is wrong with the MLB. Only the rich can stay on top. This year is a wash but let’s not string everyone up just yet. The Braves have had a ton of injuries. Yes the offense needs help but lets not just have a fire sale.
By MiamiBeachBravesFan
July 22, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Time for a Kelly Johnson benching and a (lately) better hitting Martin Prado at second base. Not much else can be done on the infield - McCann-Teixeira-Escobar-Jones is the best we have, and they would be the first to admit that 3/4 of that foursome has underperformed.
The outfield is an abject disaster as this has been a lost season for Jeff Francoeur. The man has no clue what he is doing at the plate (like watching Andruw Jones all over again). Mark Kotsay has muddled along this season (you get what you pay for, apparently), and even Matt Diaz, before the injury, was hitting way below the average we were accustomed to here the past few seasons.
The position subs have been subpar, and we have not taken advantage of our miraculous pitching efforts for the most part of this season (kudos to Bobby Cox, Roger McDowell, and Eddie Perez!).
The failing in the whole plan was placing extraordinary faith in the troika of Diaz-Kotsay-Frenchy for a whole season. Was Diaz ready for prime-time as the starting LF’er? Could Kotsay stay healthy for 162? Would Frenchy blossom into a consistent .290-30-100 RF’er? Where was the power coming from out there?
Too many questions, Frank Wren. Now, fewer answers. Thanks to the outfield’s lack of performance, the rest of the lineup suffered because of it.
The good news is once Mike Hampton, Mark Kotsay, and Mark Teixeira are gone, the John Smoltz and Tom Glavine commitment is finally reconciled, and money is freed up, maybe we can sign one good starter and one good power-hitting outfielder to shore up an otherwise good line-up for 2009. 2008?
A lost season.
By Dr. Ehrlenmeyer
July 22, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Man, it’s so fun to watch the FJM backlash in a situation like this. In reading about baseball, you can either pay attention to real numbers that are indisputable and analyzed extensively (except by mainstream sportswriters who are generally too lazy to do so), or you can trust hogwash like, “But I know an impact offensive player, a player whose performance seems bigger than his numbers because he gets so many key hits. And I know the opposite” and “even yesterday, his two-homer, three-RBI game didn’t have much impact, seeing that both homers were solo shots, one early in the game when the Braves were already down 6-1, and the other, well, I’d have to look it up, it was so relatively meaningless near the end of an utter blowout loss.” I sure do wish Tex would stop choosing to hit meaningless, selfish solo homers. And why didn’t he do more to make sure his teammates got on base ahead of him? What a choking, unclutch jerk he is.
Hilarious.
By Danny Parry
July 22, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Let’s keep Tex at least he earns his check. We could free up about 30 million by releasing(the over the hill gang),we were calling our pitching staff earlier this year.Give Tex what ever it takes.
By Carrman
July 22, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
I agree with the writer who says we should move Hudson. He is another player who hasn’t proven to be good but not great. That being said, he’s certainly good enough that I’ll bet there are several contenders who would love to have him. The time has come to see if we can find an RBI producing left fielder and some more young pitching.
By Mitchell
July 22, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Can we just put an end to all talk and officially certifiably blame the season on Kelly Johnson. Even considering the Braves road record, they were starting on a roll. We took 3 of 4 from the Marlins and were about to take the first one from the Phillies and then… Kelly Johnson. It ended all in one play. Not the same since.
By Caveman
July 22, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
All I have to say trade, Tex, Hudson, Francouer, Ohman, and Bobby Cox and see what they give us. May be for some bats and a few extra balls. Its time to rebuild. Go Braves 2010!!!!!
By MiamiBeachBravesFan
July 22, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Mitchell, you just gave me an idea. Kelly Johnson IS a disaster at second base, and your argument is very compelling indeed. Since LF is a disaster anyway, let’s do away with “The Great Kelly Johnson At Second Base Experiment” and move him to LF, where he has always hit better as a major league outfielder (plus, it’ll be less of a strain on that gimp knee of his that has been bothering him all season). Martin Prado can move to second base and be platooned with Ruben Gotay (or even Brent Lillibridge or Greg Norton) and have better fielding at the position.
Maybe Johnson’s bat wakes up in LF.
By MavsMan469
July 22, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
From down here in Texas, the depiction of Texeira in the article sounds very familliar. He puts up numbers, but not when your team needs it most. He also came off to many as a bit of a premadonna, bigger than the team, just waiting to cash in when his agent the deveil steers him to the highest bidder. We would like to thank yall for the bundle of prospects that you sent us for him. We have a starting catcher, starting pitcher, and our top rated pitching and ss prospects in AA. There was a 5th guy, not sure how he’s doing.
By Bravissimo
July 22, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
It seems that everybody thinks that Ted Turner funded the Braves out of his pocket when they had a budget in the upper bracket. I don’t believe that’s really true. In the Braves heyday in the 90’s they were the only team available on national cable everyday. They had a big group of impact players (4-6 all-stars every year) and they played exciting baseball. They drew big ratings on TBS with significant advertising revenues. And though they were a “house account” TBS payed handsomely for the rights to broadcast games. As more and more baseball became available on TV Braves ratings dropped and so did revenue and then with the sale ot the Braves to Liberty that influx of cash from TBS ended altogether. Because of TBS the Braves were able to go toe-to-toe with the major market teams in terms of budget. Those days are over and no owner in his right mind will ever compete with the Yankees and Red Sox budgets until he can virtually fill the stands every day. In Atlanta that is not going to happen. The thrill ride was fun but it’s over; get used to it. The Braves are just a mid-market team now and they’ll have to scratch and scramble like all the others.
By RedZone
July 23, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
LOL. What an idiot.
The boys at FJM do a better job at skewering that article than I ever could, but I’ll say that even on its own insipid terms, O’Brien fails. Tex leads his team in RBIs despite batting nearly .100 lower than Chipper Jones. That is indicative of some timely hitting. He also bats .360 late and close.
Whoever gets Tex will almost surely overpay for him-and they have every reason both to do so and not to do so. They’re a .500 team (in 2nd and 3rd order wins) but they’re young and have promise. It all depends on what their plans are. If they don’t plan on overpaying him, trade him, and tell O’Brien that if they do trade him—no one will care about what Boras has to say on the matter, as (unless there is some no-trade-clause I’m unaware of) no one will consult him.
By Tim
July 23, 2008 3:05 AM | Link to this
Use some of the $15 million freed up by waving goodbye to Hampton next year and resign Tex. It’s taken him some time to adjust to the NL pitching, but his numbers are getting there.
Let’s not write off the twilight for Smoltz, Glavine and even Chipper.
Instead of trading Tex, trade Campillo and Diaz to pitching needy Pittsburgh for Jason Bay - a RH with power. Spend some $$ and sign Bay for a couple years.
Then go with Hudson, JJ, Reyes, Glavine (maybe Hampton can start a game or two until Tom is ready) and Morton.
By michael
July 23, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to play Norton and bench Frenchy. He has not learned the stike zone after three years in the majors. When Hampton send Reyes back to Richmond. But the bottom line Frenchy needs to be benched.
Michael
By Brandon
July 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
I can solve all the Braves problems…Fire Cox and hire Ozzie Guillen (only manager i know other than Leyland who has the balls to call out the team and get them fired up) to replace him, trade the entire team except McCann, Kotsay, Blanco, Hudson, Jair, and Gonzalez, and build a team around these guys for a good run the next 5-10 years or so and actually play with some freakin passion and cut throat mentality.
By dorothy davis
July 23, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
JJ Reyes is not a major league pitcher. It’s time to quit losing games to prove this point. For gods sake, let Norton or Kotsay pitch, anyone but Reyes. And if the Braves trade off Tex, it is because even the head office has decided it is a wasted season. He has been a one man wrecking ball and has carried the team lately. So take him out of the picture and watch the total collapse the rest of the way. Like I said before, if you don’t change the coach, nothing good will happen. Remember Randolph and the Mets? At least they were smart enough to make the change before their season was lost. Why aren’t we?
By don
July 24, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
On Baseball Tonight last night, Gammons made three obvious statements.
The Braves will not win the division.
The Braves will not be the wildcard.
There is very little or no market for Teixeira.
Obviousdly, the other major league teams are not as ignorant as were the Braves when they made that blunder at the trade deadline last year.