Braves

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

First?

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

Hey, I know it’s hot as blazes and McCann didn’t have the entire All-Star break off like most teammates, etc.

Technically he did, seein’ as how he didn’t actually play in the game (1/3 of an inning doesn’t really count).

; )

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

DOB

“All it took was for me to cite Frenchy’s bad numbers in the new blog for him to get a big hit right there. Glad I could help.”

While it was a very nice AB by Jeff (one of the few since his return to Atlanta), I wouldn’t call it a “big” hit since a run didn’t score on it.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

And Jo-Jo walks in the tying run in the bottom of the second, after being staked to a 1-0 lead….

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

You guys didn’t actually think that Jo-Jo was gonna protect a 1-0 lead, did you?

I understand Bobby going for an early run with the sac-bunt in the first inning, but I had a gut feeling that 1 run wasn’t gonna cut it today, with Reyes on the mound.

This has the makings of getting UGLY really quick.

Yikes.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Sweet new blog. DOB, your Kirin beer awaits!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

What was Corky doing trying to tag the runner there? Dude, bases were loaded. It’s a force.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Francoeur just hit the scree/backstop with a throw for the second time in as many days.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Francoer can”t even play right field anymore. when’s the last time he did not air mail a throw?

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Anybody STILL think Jeffrey is a GG caliber RF this year?

For a second, I thought that was Ryan Klesko out there. In 2005, Jeff throws that runner out by 10 feet.

Willie Harris, huh?

Yikes, Yikes….double Yikes!

By Scott from Fairburn

July 20, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Brutal, Frenchy, Brutal

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

N8, agreed. Though it’s all relative. For him at this point, any hit with a runner on, not to mention with two outs, is big.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

So that’s why Ho-Ho doesn’t get run support…

DOB—

In your next blog, could you talk about the terrible throws Francoeur’s been making? Maybe that would help…

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris, oh native of Cairo, why do you torment us, and only us?!?

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

That was a nice “slo-mo” replay on MacCauly’s grounder. Guzman didn’t get the glove down.

But he was rushing to scoop and throw in one motion due to the speed of the hitter. It would have been bang-bang even had he fielded it cleanly with how softly it was hit.

Just another thing that speed does for a lineup. Too bad Brent’s speed can’t help Jo-Jo throw strikes.

By Joe

July 20, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Wow, it’s July 20, and the Braves are starting a minor-leaguer at Catcher, shortstop, left-field and right-field.

PLEASE TRADE TEX NOW!!!!

This season is over and we can still get something for Tex.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Seriously, how as fans can we take the Braves seriously when we play a catcher that hits worse than most Pitchers?

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Where’s the Nimrod that was saying “Corky’s not part of the problem”? Dude’s hitting what, about .090, with an OBP of well under .200? How, in any sane universe, is that not absolutely killing his own team? Why is he still here?

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Yokohama, that was funny, the Willie Harris comment. And so true.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Can we trade Kelly Johnson and put Lilbridge at second? Getting tired of this guy

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Maybe Corky wasn’t sure if his foot was on the plate or not.

That was a nice play by Abraham, but it had nothing on those force outs Martin made in the All-Star Game, eh? Oh, McCann would have never made that play!

(Big time eye-roll)

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Cairo, GA: Home of syrup, Braves killers, and former UGA golden boy (for several full seconds) Joey Hester.

An aside: instead of Karo syrup, try a bit of maple syrup in your next pecan pie recipe- spectacular!

So DOB, at what point does Wren become a seller, if this continues?

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I’v e not followed game attendance too closely but it looks like a pretty weak crowd for a Sunday fwiw

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

DOB

“N8, agreed. Though it’s all relative. For him at this point, any hit with a runner on, not to mention with two outs, is big.”

Agreed. He can’t control what Kotsay did after him, nor can he control Tex’s speed. Blanco or Lil’ running ahead of him, and they score and Jeff has himself a 2-out RBI.

So you are correct. For HIM it was a “big” hit.

On a side note, it appears from the broadcast, that many people came to today’s game disguised as empty seats.

Nothing like a pennant race, huh?

By cabravesfan

July 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

kris are you really going to complain about Kelly not swinging at a pitch that was 4 inches off the plate?

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

PAGING MR. MADDUX-PAGING MR. GREG MADDUX! PLEASE PICK UP THE COURTESY PHONE!

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

So how long will Bobby go with Reyes today? Im guessing once he gives up 5 runs Bobby will pull him. I know Reyes hasn’t been up in the Majors long, but, so far, he is starting to look like a ‘AAAA’ ballplayer. Dominates in high minors, cannot duplicate in the majors.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Why do I always think of the the movie “Weekend at Bernies” whenever they show Bobby cox in the dugout?

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen enough of Jo-Jo, to believe he has the “stuff” to succeed (similarly to Odalis and Marquis), but he’s just not ready to start 35 games on a CONTENDING team.

Anybody that thinks this team doesn’t miss what Glavine could have brought to the table since his injury, is mistaking.

I’m not ready to give up on Jo-Jo. But he needs to be fine-tuning his location and command at Richmond. Unfortunately, who else are we gonna turn to? Maddux?

I’ve stated before that I don’t think he’s the missing link for this team, and he surely isn’t worth giving up prospects for.

Sadly enough, Odalis could have been had for under 1 million dollars in March. Who woulda thunk it?

If Langerhans has big hit here, we’ll KNOW it’s going bad.

Yikes.

By Mark T.

July 20, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Please bring in Buddy! While we still have a chance to remain in this game. Jo Jo is a run supporter, he supports the other teams run totals. While you are at it, make a double switch, switch Jo Jo and Corky for Buddy & Brian

By Retch

July 20, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Please tell me the Braves aren’t listening to Moore and will trade Tex, Ohoman and Kotsay and try to get some decent young talent.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Btw, DOB, thanks for the kudos. Was getting lonely here typing in the middle of the night with nary a reply from the group. Was considering changing my handle to “The Ghost of Larry Whisenton”…

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

If the Braves lose this series, against the lowly Nats, you would almost certainly have to think Wren would pull the plug on the season. I mean, how in the heck can we expect to beat the Marlins and Phillies if we cannot even beat last place crappy teams?

And it looks as if I was right, Reyes gives up 5 runs, Bobby pulls him, oh but just a little too late. Braves will never come back from this deficit, if they do, I will shave my head bald.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan-

Kelly Johnson is a mediocre ball player. flat out mediocre imo

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

On a side note, it appears from the broadcast, that many people came to today’s game disguised as empty seats.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen today! LOL!

NOW Ho-Ho comes out! OK!

GREAT PLAY by Buddy! But a very dirty slide by the runner. That could have been very ugly. No need to slide on a force out, dude!

By Jeff321

July 20, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Way to go HOF manager! Waiting until we’re down 5-1 with the bases loaded to yank Jo Jo, eh?

Tell me, do they Braves have a better chance winning when its 3-1, 4-1, or 5-1?

I guess this isn’t a must win for Cox since Frenchy almost threw the ball into the parking lot again.. And of course McCann is on the bench. Ah, hopefully Cox will just resign due to embarrassment. However, I seriously doubt it. I long for the day that the Braves aren’t managed by this fool!

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I must admit the strike zone today is absolutely pathetic. Good to see some life out of Bobby

By Yunel Lillibridge

July 20, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Dare I say SCOTT THORMAN may be a serviceable replacement for TEX? Have the Braves’ discussed this possibility, DOB? While his average has hovered only around .250 at Richmond this year, he is hitting for power. In fact, he just hit his 18th homer in Game 1 of a doubleheader this afternoon, after also homering last night. Interestingly, he’s playing third base today.

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Ok, it’s official, this team T Totally sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

N8, lots of empty seats today. Even with the terrible traffic caused by the paving, gonna be lots of empties today. There are still folks arriving, but just a trickle….

Yokohama, as we’ve said, by the end of this trip we’re gonna know. I mean, I could say “this afternoon,” but then what if miracle of miracles the Breaves would sweep Florida and win two of three at Philly (almost certainly gonna happen, but what if?)

That’d be 6-3 in the nine-game stretch. So unless they were to lose two of three at Florida, after losing two of three in hits series, then I don’t know that he’d pull the plug before getting through the trip.

But not sure either way, to be honest. Not like they’ve given us a table that says, “If we win two of three vs. Washington, must win four of six in next two series,” or “if we lose two of three vs. Washingt…” etc.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

That was GREAT! You go, Bobby!

That was a strike all the way!

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

This season is unfolding in the worst possible way.There is NO WAY these guys are going to the playoffs.

Trouble is they aren’t quite bad enough to have to deal with that reality.Tex absolutely has more value to the team in a trade than keeping him through the season.

So they’ll likely keep him, offer him arbitration and end up with somewhere between a late 1st rd and 3rd rd pick for him.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Did I mention btw that Greg Norman shot a 77 today to squander a 2 shot lead and lose the British Open. Dude’s worth a cool half-billion, but can’t buy a shot when a major’s on the line. Ouch. This one may have worse than his meltdown at Augusta lo, those many years ago…

By Joe

July 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

This season is clearly over. The Braves had 9 games to open the 2nd half against the division and needed to go at least 7-2 to continue pretending they had a chance at post-season.

They are about to go to 1-2 vs. the worst team in the majors. How stupid do you have to be to still think that the Braves are in “contention?” Perhaps you are the same people who think W. B*sh is still doing a “good job” as president?

It is plain as day that the Braves are terrible. They have no chance of winning anything this year.

Why is it so hard to fathom that we need to punt and regroup for next year, and a big part of that will be trading Tex and Ohman for some big time prospects.

I have followed the Braves for almost 30 years, and love them. But, I cannot let that cloud the fact that they suck this year. There are minor-league players starting at Catcher, shortstop, left-field, right-field and starting pitcher today. We are simply not competitive with the big boys anymore.

By Jake

July 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Boy Bobby just blew off a year’s worth of steam. To be fair I still think we would be losing this game in spite of the blown calls, but boy if Kelly had got the call Willie just got, and let Chipper come up with the bases loaded who knows what could have happened. This umpire is a little ridiculous though, Buddy didn’t do a thing wrong. Bobby was in the right. Now come on Braves, its still early in this game. Show some fight for your manager and your pitcher for God sakes. If you lose to the nationals again. Well……….

By Tony Austin

July 20, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

What a team the Braves have constructed this year. A no talent whining RF, a bone headed, hard headed manager, a backup catcher that can’t hit his way out of a wet sack, a 1$t baseman who’$ vi$ion is clouded by dollar $ign$, and basically an offense that couldn’t hit a beach ball in the clutch.

This team is making probably the worst team in the major leagues look like the 27 Yankees. Anyone who thinks this team has a chance of winning is delusional.

Some of you may read this and not like it, and I don’t really care. This is not a playoff team.

If they can’t get someone for that 1st baseman of theirs, jump on it. Maybe it’ll give the illusion of giving up on the season, maybe it’ll send a message.

Maybe next year, but not with this current team. That right fielder needs to go somewhere else, and they need a new set of coaches included the manager. Roger McDowell has been doing a nice job it appears, so he could stay, but it’s time to get rid of the rest of the bunch.

This is not a good team. Plain and simple. They have not been a good time for quite some time.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Regarding attendance: Braves drew 82,000 for first two games in the series, so even if they only get, say, 28,000 today, it’ll be 110,000 for a three-game series with the Nationals.

Say what you will, but attendance really isn’t dipping, despite the poor performance on the field and the price of gas, etc.

Braves are right in the middle of the pack in home attendance in the majors, and still around top 10 in road attendance average.

By Interested Observer

July 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

I cringed when I saw Guccione was the home plate umpire. He’s one of several umpires who have no business umpiring above the little league level. He was trying to pick a fight with Carlyle who was just standing there. Not to mention that the strike zone has been an absolute joke!

By N8

July 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Sure am glad Bobby played for one run in the first inning. LOL!

You know things are going bad for you as a starting pitcher, when your manager comes out with the hook with Odalis Perez coming to the plate.

Soon to be 4-7 against the Nats, huh? We are soon to be 21-24 against teams with a losing record. We are 22-26 against winning teams (21-18 against ALL winning teams NOT located in Philadelphia - 1-8 against the Phils).

Where’s Wellman when you need him?

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Like I said, Tex has hit in day games this season like someone at the top of any pay scale….

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Why not put Mccann in now-it’s do or die time-we need his bat Absolutely unbelievable he is on the bench today. Guess that half inning of catching at the all star game wore him out. GET MCCANN IN THERE ASAP!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

That’s six ejections for Cox this year. His personal “best” as it were is 11 in 2001. Way this season’s going, it’s within reach….

By Auburn Ace

July 20, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I get the MLB package on Direct TV and I can say without a doubt that Joe Simpson is the biggest homer of any broadcaster for any team.

How many times during the game does he question a balls and strikes call? Is he that insecure about his job that he has to go overboard distorting so many situations?

Hey Joe, Jeff Francouer just had a ball over the middle of the plate called a ball…where is your moral indignation toward that and the countless replays?

I get so tired of this smarmy know-it-all. Time to turn the TV down again.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, you’re right, it was a silly question to ask. Still, gotta say that this crew hasn’t shown the ability to reel off 5-6 games, much less the kind of streak that would build any confidence or momentum.

Havimg suffered through some pretty barren years since the late seventies, it’d be kind of nice to see the Bravos just admit that it’d be better to start building with youth again than continue the “one last stand” mentality with a bunch of guys 35 yrs old or more.

By kris

July 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Last team in the major leagues in run production has outscored us 16-4 in the last 13 innings-it’s just embarassing what else can you say?

By tbo

July 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Yay Bobby Cox. You are good at three things: 1. Picking your nose in the dugout. 2. Making stupid pitching/bullpen decisions. 3. Getting your old fat butt thrown out of the game.

Please retire!!

By IgCognito

July 20, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Turn out the lights, the party is over.

Actually, the party was over long before it got started. Trade Tex and Ohman. This year, as many have said, is over. You still have a nucleus to build around next year, so get some prospects. We will have money to spend next year to try and replace Tex. We might as well try and get another young pitching prospect to team with JJ in the future. Adenhardt?

By Robert S

July 20, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I see Tex is enhancing his trade value! He’s the only reason these clowns are on the scoreboard.

Kris, I totally agree with your 2:37 comment. Johnson, like this team, is mediocre.

Yunel Lillibridge, I doubt you’ll see Thorman up in Atlanta. Another mediocre prospect. The Braves sure have had a lot of mediocrity coming up through the farm system - Johnson, Thorman, Reyes, Blanco, Francoeur. Outside of McCann and Escobar, the farm hasn’t exactly yielded a bumper crop, no?

Reality check - this team is getting outplayed by the worst team in baseball, with what best can be described as a punchless offense. Willie Harris suddenly looks like Rod Carew against the Braves. Ryan Langerhans couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag for Atlanta, but he looks great against them.

Maybe Frank Wren and Bobby Cox will take a very sober look at this team and realize if they can’t beat the Nationals, they certainly can’t hold their own against the Cubs or Phillies or Mets. Or maybe they won’t.

Judging from the clubhouse meeting and Bobby’s comments about their chances to win the division Friday, they’re not living in reality right now.

By TURTSNAP

July 20, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I sure am glad the Braves are playing the worst team in baseball!!! No telling how much sh!tiier they would look against a good team!!!!

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Have the Bravos even had a 1-2-3 inning yet, from the pitchers?

By Section 412

July 20, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

A note on attendance, though, DOB. Attendance is tickets sold, which I know is the bottom line, but as a season ticket holder I know that more and more of us are simply staying home. I did today. I almost NEVER skip a game, but with the British Open, the heat, etc., I did today. In the seats around me, I know more and more are staying away. I also see the empty seats around the stadium. It’s becoming a real concern.

Everybody says trade Tex, but from where I sit, he’s the only thing we have that is close to a legit star in his prime. You have to trade him if you are CERTAIN you won’t sign him, but what we really need to do is sign him. Do what it takes - open the corporate checkbook - and don’t let your best young player go.

If you want to build a quality team, you need players like Tex. I hate to think how big of a step back we will take without him in the lineup.

As I type, the game gets further out of hand. Looks like I made a good decision in sitting this one out. I’m afraid that will happen more and more if something doesn’t change fast.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Wow. Frank Wren, are you watching this, ol’ buddy?

By kris

July 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Once again, why is Corky Miller in the game? Defense? lol

By Mike

July 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Wow…this team really is terrible. You can’t drop 2of 3 to the Nats and expect people to take u seriously. Corky Miller just turned a double play into a 2 run error as I type this…give me a break with this guy already.

By RLPmetro

July 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

AuburnAce, first off, War Eagle. Secondly, you must not watch a lot of non-braves telecasts on the baseball package. Every commentator is the same way. They are paid by the ball club, so they naturally lean that way. Additionally, I think you will find that fans of any particular team want to hear their announcers, and they want them to be “rooting” for the team, so to speak. Didn’t you ever listen to an Auburn FB broadcast? TOUCHDOWN AUBURN, TOUCHDOWN AUBURN! It’s the EXACT same thing, and I appreciate it, quite frankly.

As for the non strike calls, pointing out the oscilating strike zone is a valid point in my opinion. The pitch before the one that Bobby got ejected on was even worse. You could see Carlyle dip away on both non-strike calls, so the ump stupidly called him out and made himself part of the story.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

I talked to Don Sutton before the game, wanted to know if he got goosebumps like I did during the pregame All-Star Game activities at Yankee Stadium. He did (he was on the field, after all, among the 49 Hall of Famers taking part). He said it was the most incredible feeling he’d had other than stepping to the podium when inducted at Cooperstown.

By the way, he also made an unsolicited comment about our pagan cow:

“When they built the stadium they didn’t want to obstruct the view of downtown with [outfield] light towers,” he said. “But a cow is OK.”

By moonkween

July 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

10-2 in the top of the 4th. Total embarrassment…

By Robin

July 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Nice throw Cork! Attababy! Fer cryin’ out loud!

….and Willie goes yard …….

By ArkyTech

July 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

I tried to tell you guys that there was no way we would be able to stop Willie Harris and Ryan Langerhans this weekend, but NOOOOOOBODY would listen…….

By moonkween

July 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

12-2 in the top of the 4th. Total embarrassment…

By Robert S

July 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

“Why not put Mccann in now-it’s do or die time!”

And what difference would that make with these listless clowns getting clobbered? McCann should have started. And Miller has no business being on this roster.

Look, Langerhans singled again. Bases juiced with one out. This is….ugh. Tough to watch.

By Jake

July 20, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Geez, what the heck did we do to all these ex-braves on other teams that when they play us all of a sudden they find their best game? I guess for us to beat the phillies we need to go get an ex phillie. Well at least bobby doesn’t have to stick around and watch this s**

By Jeff321

July 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute. Did I just see Corky Miller throw one into right field and the Nationals scoring two more runs?

Can we get a quote from Cox on that one? Because when ya choose to have a .093 hitter in the lineup.. and tout him as basically a defensive specialist at what point are you held accountable?

Oh and did I mention Willie Harris just jacked one out? How is this possible if Miller makes the throw?

By Franklin Tower

July 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

I am aghast. This is badness of biblical proportions!

By TURTSNAP

July 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Why would ANYBODY pay to watch this team play in person?

By Bruce's Pearl

July 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

No wonder Cox said emphatically before the game, “We’re buyers, not sellers. We’re trying anything to improve. We’re not seeking to move anybody. I don’t know where [people] got all of that stuff from. There’s a time to [start trading players], I suppose, but we’re in this thing

Yeah,right

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Frank was just on the phone. I think he said something along the lines of Mortimer (or was it Winthorpe?) in Trading Places: “Sell, sell, sell!”

By TennesseePaul

July 20, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

What the hell happened? Reyes had a handful of quality outings and then just reverted back to his 2007 self. Even with all the tutoring from Glavine. Tragic.

By N9

July 20, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

ok folks, its official time to listen at offers made on TEX. I hate to say it, but its time. We also should try hard in resigning before trade deadline time. (just like Rangers tried to do)we all love TEX.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Sellers… without a doubt.

By N8

July 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

DOB

Is that “paid” attendance, or actual bodies through the turn-stiles? Not busting your ballz, just asking.

Earlier in the day, I said that this could get ugly in a hurry.

My apologies to anybody who doubted me. Gotta like that Corky Miller defense, huh?

Willie Frickin Harris. Unreal.

As for Joe Simpson? Haven’t liked listening to him for YEARS. I appreciate his honesty sometimes, but the guy IS a homer. I forgot how much I missed Don Sutton, with him being part of the Nats broadcasts. Though Sutton was a bit of a homer, himself. But he’s a HOF homer, so take that for what it’s worth.

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

This is just ugly now. The Willie Harris Show is something to watch.

Hopefully we’re starting to see why having 4 rookies might not be the best way to go if healthy vets are available.

The worst thing isn’t that we’re losing, it is the fashion in which we are doing it.(to this point)

By Scott from Fairburn

July 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

The Budster has reverted back to his mean …

By tbo

July 20, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Elizabeth! Corky just got a hit. Must have been an underhanded toss.

By Section 412

July 20, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Analogies 101 —

Corky is to “defensive specialist” as Frenchy is to “quality hitter”

JoJo is to “budding young pitching star” as Hampton is to “Iron Man”

By Robert S

July 20, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, way to go Corky!! Pathetic. Just pathetic.

Live from Yokohama- it’s “Beach Day”!: I’m sure he is watching. I also hope he’s on the phone with other teams, trying to get maximum trade value for the likes of Tex and Ohman………but that’s probably unlikely.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

By the way, at what point does someone come from the Braves dugout to stand between Bobby and the ump when Cox is losing it like he did on that ejection? Apparently, at no point….

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Gotta luv our GG right fielder. Bobbling grounders, taking two months to get to balls in the corner, airmailing the catcher, not backing up a throw down the first base line aggressively.

Not to mention his atrocious hitting.

Oh, and tell me again why we have Corky? For his defensive skills? I think I could probably swipe a tag at a runner when I didn’t need to, or airmail a throw to 1B to complete a DP, or obviously call a great game.

As I type this, dude gets a single…

By N8

July 20, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Time for me to leave and watch some “competitive” baseball.

My 10 year old son’s Youth Baseball League tournament starts today. Hopefully THAT goes better than this. LOL!

By TennesseePaul

July 20, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris. Grand slam.

Ouch

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

I posted just before Frenchy took his cup of coffee in Mississippi (ok half a cup) that it’s not just his hitting.

He can’t throw,run the bases or cover the ground in the outfield at anywhere near what he did last season.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

TURTSNAP— I sure am glad the Braves are playing the worst team in baseball!!

Which team on the field is the worst team in baseball right now??

By Section 412

July 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Analogies 101 —

Corky and Prado are to 2 runs as ….

Oh, never mind.

Unbelievable. Amazing. Not that it will make a difference, but that was a little surprising.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

From last blog:

To make more clear what the situation of the braves is right now………..

If Braves play .667 baseball the rest of the way…….they will win 89 games…..

So there is absolutely no room for error here…… they have to win virtually every single series from now on.

Phillies have a .541 winning pct. as we speak, which would represent 88 wins at the end of the season. So to win this division…….. 89 games might be what will be needed.

What does this means?

BRAVES HAVE TO WIN EVERY SERIES FROM NOW ON………. IN OTHER WORDS……… THEY WILL HAVE TO SWEEP A 3 GAME SERIES FOR EVERY 3 GAME SERIES THEY DONT WIN.

OUCH!!!!!!

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Crazy Eddie, if he’s not still locked up, should be brought in to sell off portions of this crew, although prices are not likely to be I-N-S-A-N-E!!

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

If we have a real major league backup catcher on the roster, there’s a chance this game would now be well within reach.

(Given that we’re playing the Nats I guess technically it is still within reach, but you know what I mean)

By tbo

July 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

If we had any kind of bullpen help today and did not have a goon manager like BC then we could have won.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

This fourth inning could be longest of the year, top and bottom combined. We’ve only got one out, a chance both sides could bat around…

Then again, Francoeur’s up next (oh, that wasn’t right….)

By Jake

July 20, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Please are announcers are homers, name me some announcers that are not. Come on braves, still early. Let’s Chip,Chip, Chip away. Big at bat here for Frenchy.

By Offensive Outburst

July 20, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

When the game feels like it’s over in the fourth because your getting killed, it’s suddenly easy to relax and hit the ball isn’t it?

By BravesFan79

July 20, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

WOW…. im So glad Corkys defensive abilities helped us win today!! Im sure you would agree wouldnt u… BA.

Great, Corky got a hit when the games 12-2….that should buy him at least another month or 2 in Bobby Cox’s mind to get things turned around! lol…

So we can sign someone like Taverez…but we cant have a decent backup for Chipper , or Mccan??

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

If I were the owner of this team, I would order all the players off the field, refund everyone for the price of a field level seat, regardless of where they sat, along with an apology for wasting their time..

I would then make this team wear powder blues of the ’80s until they felt like playing like major leaguers.

Maybe Bobby gets thrown out so much so he doesn’t have to watch them play.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the worst team in baseball, the 2008 Atlanta Braves…

By tbo

July 20, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Francouer. You suck.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

outscore 20-4 in 2 days against a AA team???

I wouldnt be surprised if braves dont go to playoff in 2009 either……….Cox is running the show………..or should I say Circus.

By moonkween

July 20, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, watchin’ on mlb.tv during the whole Cox/Guccione fiasco and Joe was talkin’ about how Guccione has an attitude (I’m paraphrasing) and how this has become a pretty common thing for him, baiting pitchers/managers. Joe also mentioned how none of the other umpires came to Guccione’s rescue because they’re probably tired of his antics, too!

I thought that was funny…

By Robert S

July 20, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Only after their pitching staff gets annihilated do they start hitting? Oh, the madness!!!

They’ve given up 6 runs, 8 runs, and now 12 to the worst offensive team this side of the Bad News Bears. So much for that vaunted pitching…..

By Drew

July 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

This is asinine baseball….

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

I gotta say, it boggles the mind how few significant hits Texeira has had this year, given his RBI total. Kinda reminds me of the days of Ken “Hey, I gotta close to .300 average, even if none of those hits resulted in a meaningful RBI” Oberkfell was here….

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, Jeff,

Go back to Mississippi!!

By Bye Bye Bobby

July 20, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Maybe they don’t come out and get Bobby because they feel that if they just let him go, he’ll work it out. They don’t want to tinker with who he is. The coaches feel that he has it in him and if they just offer encouragement, he’ll surely pull the game out just by talking to the ump. They don’t want to do anything negative like getting between Bobby and the ump. Being proactive and doing anything that distrupts the flow of the game just wouldn’t be “Bobby Ball.”

By Robert S

July 20, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

“Cox is running the show………..or should I say Circus.”

Well, Doc Holliday, I did say the players were clowns…

“Then again, Francoeur’s up next (oh, that wasn’t right….)”

Oh come now, DOB, you are right! Have to give him credit for taking a walk, but Mark (“The Daily Pop-up”) Kotsay picked him up, sarcastically speaking.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Could have sworn I saw Brad Komminsk in the on-deck Circle, and Charlie Kerfeld warming up in the pen.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

If I were the owner of this team, I would order all the players off the field, refund everyone for the price of a field level seat, regardless of where they sat, along with an apology for wasting their time..southbeachdietfreak

I guess we know why you don’t own a professional sports team, eh?

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, since the game is of little interest today, I will second your opinion on The Dark Knight. I saw it late Friday night and came away wishing that it didn’t end. I am hoping to go see it again tonight…it was that good.

I know it was incessantly hyped, but it is finally a piece of work that actually lives up to its hype. Similarly, Ledger’s performance has been blown up to mythical proportions, but I can honestly say that I don’t remember an acting performance of similar skill. I am trying to compare it to performances like Pacino in The Godfather or Scarface, and heresy that it is, I think this Joker performance is better.

How are they ever going to come close to this movie when they make a third installment? Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher must have been embarassed when they watched this movie…either that or it was too painful for them to watch.

I am going to need to purchase a BluRay DVD player just in anticipation of Dark Knight being released on DVD.

By Jake

July 20, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

DOB What is your opinion on the level of intensity our players play at? I mean I could be wrong in tying intensity to play on the field, but when you watch the fire that phillies and other teams play with and we seemingly come out flat like we are waiting to be punched instead of trying to throw the punch. It just seems like this has been the flatest and most lifeless team we have ever had. I find myself questioning where is their fire?

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Just when the Braves have chipped away at the lead and gotten it to seven runs, they give back two (OK, that was more Sunday sarcasm).

By Robert

July 20, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

DOB makes the case this is a must win game and then points out that whoever makes the lineup has made a decision that doesnt give the team the best chance they might have to win

Sounds to me like he just made the case that Cox is an incompetant manager.

By N9

July 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

man even buddy had a rough game! looking at boxscore today hurts my eyes.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Braves lose the series………..

This forces us to sweep either the marlins or phillies and win the other series against those teams.

In other words………..this forces the Braves to go 5-1 in their next 6 games……….just to keep pace……….

One more thing………Id say chipper will not even be the batting champion………the mission is over……..

By Moon Mullins

July 20, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Yeah, the Dark Knight is so good, I am going to quit my job, purchase a large house and paint the windows black just so I can watch it all day long. Day after day.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

14-5 at this point. DOB, have the players had a closed-door meeting this year? Might not be a bad time for one. Kinda of disappointing to not see anyone terribly upset by this kind of performance, regardless of all the injuries…

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

BravesDave, I also wanted it to continue, and that’s saying something considering the movie was about 2 hours, 20 minutes long.

And yes, Heath Ledger was tremendous. As was Christian Bale.

But you really have to go back to Pacino to find a performance of Ledger’s caliber? Dude, did you not see Daniel Day-Lewis, in either Gangs of New York (as the Butcher) or in There Will Be Blood?

How ‘bout Sean Penn in Mystic River? Those are just recent performance that come to mind.

But again, Heath Ledger was terrific.

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

14 runs.

Are there really 64 games left in the season after today. I guess that means that I wasted 40% of the money I spent on the Extra Innings package from DirecTv. Not to mention, 40% of the additional money charged to watch the games in HD. Who wants to watch this sinking ship in HD?

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

What is a .234 guy doing hitting 5th is this team???

Is McCann injured??? Did I missed that??? I cant find another reasonable explanation to his absence on the lineup today.

Why is Cox still managing in baseball??? thats an insult to baseball.

Is there any pride left in this guys??? or will they just go for the 100 loses???

By N812

July 20, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Braves should get Marco Scutaro. His name is really cool.

By N90210

July 20, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Performances! How about Mike Myers in The Love Guru. He made me really believe he was a guru.

Also loved Mickey Rooney in Brekfast at Tiffany’s. made me really believe he was Japanese.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Good thing it’s not a 4-game series… who knows how many runs we’d give up tomorrow!

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

BravesDave, Ledger’s ‘Joker better than Pacino’s ‘Michael Corleone’ ? There’s NO WAY that’s possible,the role isn’t big,grand,expansive,profound enough.

This is a support role IN A BATMAN MOVIE,get a grip.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

BravesDave,

I don’t regret spending the bucks for MLB Extra Innings, but I am happy I didn’t cough up the extra money for HD.

Watching games on NESN and hearing Jerry Remy say “pahhk” is worth a buck or two.

By TennesseePaul

July 20, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris: .250/.368/.436 7HR
Francoeur: .234/.290/.371 9HR

By Will

July 20, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Its actually a relief for the Braves to just let all us fans know its over. Rolling over and getting punched in the mouth by the Nationals is just laughable. GM Wren, you see that big red concession button on your desk. PUSH IT! Moore’s column today is just hilarious too. This team flat out stinks.

By Live from Yokohama- it's "Beach Day"!

July 20, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, those are damning numbers, indeed. Mr. Francouer, welcome again to Pearl, Miss.

By Lee in S GA

July 20, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Good thing the Braves do not play the Nats much more this season or they will be a 5th place team instead of a 4th place team. The more I watch this team play, the more realize they are NOT that good and perhaps a major rebuiding process lies ahead.

By ncscoots

July 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute. BravesDave made a post that DIDN’T include a Francoeur-bashing?!? I thought sure I’d see something like “Francoeur could have never handled that role.”

Cats-living-with-dogs stuff. The apocalypse is near, no doubt.

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, personally, I did not love Gangs of New York. Granted, it was a good movie, but I did not come away from it feeling like I had seen a masterpiece. Daniel Day-Lewis is a GREAT actor. As far as Sean Penn is concerned, he played a fantastically emotional role in Mystic River, another good movie.

The difference for me with Ledger as the Joker was that every movement, every facial tic, every single enunciaton of every syllable of every word had meaning. His movements were incredible. He didn’t walk like a normal person, he didn’t breathe like a normal person. It was almost like watching a cartoon…where an artist was able to draw things that a normal person could not do physically.

If one of the Lord of the Rings movies could win best picture, Dark Knight should win it.

By Chop Chop

July 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Thought I’d check in.

This series should douse the hopes of most Braves fans. I didn’t see any of last night’s game. I turned it on today to see a 5-1 deficit.

It ain’t gotten no better.

I should be surprised by this series, but I guess I’m not all that surprised when the Braves choke on one against what I consider to be the worst team in baseball. Just a very poor effort today. That’s about all anyone can say.

By Frank Wren

July 20, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Hello, clubhouse guy? Could you please dig one of the regular white home jerseys out of the laundry, tie it onto a stick, and bring it up to me, please?

By I ♥ Lincecum

July 20, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

I’m shifting my allegiance. Go TIMMY!

Game starting now.

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

A-Ville, you are missing the point. It is not about the importance of the role in the scheme of the movie. It about the performance itself.

Have you seen the movie?

By N9

July 20, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

you guys can be N-whatever but im the true N9

By Jeff R

July 20, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Adios, Super Tex. I just hope that Wren can swing a couple of high caliber prospects for the Ol’ Rent-a-Player.

What is Ohman likely to fetch on the trade market?

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

McFann: Forgot to tell you, Kotsay was wearing McCann’s All-Star jersey in the clubhouse this morning, back when the Braves were still in a decent mood, before the day took a sharp turn at Awry Ave.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

So, Greg, you still think we had no reason to celebrate Friday’s win?

Eat your words, man. Eat your words.

By I ♥ Lincecum

July 20, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Timmy strikes out Prince Fielder. No runs, no hits, 1 error for the Giants.

This is real baseball!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Escobar checked out fine with doctor, WON’T be DL’d. He was actually available to play today.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Marlins pull out 3-2 win over the Phils in 11

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Good one, ncscoots. If you must know, I have given up on bashing Francoeur. What is the point?

There is nothing further that I can say on the matter. Not to mention, the rest of the regulars on the blog do all of the bashing for me.

By N2009

July 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

But next year, I will be the “N”!

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

It has been fun to watch the TB Rays this year. good to see them on top in the toughest division to win (unless you’re Boston or NY).

By Roger Ebert

July 20, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Corky Miller’s performance as a baseball player in Horror at Turner Field is very convincing.

By Don

July 20, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

A toast to those who threw up the white flag back in June.

As law enforcement is bound to say on occasion:

Keep it movin, keep it movin people, there’s nothing to see here (with the background being a bloody wreck ie the Braves).

By Quack Quack

July 20, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

well at least it ain’t another one run loss. I just tuned in, what happened to Chipper? Is he hurt or just taken out because of the blowout?

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

This doesn’t help Braves: They will play Marlins without Diaz, who has a .425 career average with seven homers and 21 RBI in 36 games against Florida, including a .452 average with four homers and 11 RBI in his last 11 against them.

By Don

July 20, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Is it possible that Tex may beg to be traded by July 31 in light of this budding, terrible mess?

By chopper

July 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Raise the white flag boys—and with gusto now, raise it high for all to see.

By flange1

July 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

What a horrific day at the TED…

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Question is… can the Rays keep this up another 60+ games?

By LT-AA Blogger

July 20, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

So, where are Tex/Ohman headed?

If there are no serious offers for Tex, does this bode well for Atlanta’s chance to resign him or just mean nobody wants a rent-a-Tex?

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

What about an All Florida World Series??

By I was a teenage Francophile

July 20, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Not to worry, I’m permanently on the Fraudcoer’s case.

By Melly

July 20, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

DOB touched on this, but the entire Braves organization has blinders on if they think they can trot out lineups with Prado, Blanco, and Lillebrdige and think they will actually gain ground. Our OF is the worst in baseball by a long way folks. Why in the world is Blanco even on this team over players like Jones, Schaeffer, Hernandez that have way more upside. I know other than Jones they may not be MLB ready, but Blanco is never going to be more than a .270 hitter at best, and he doesn’t hit for power or steal bases. Geesh, we are in trouble..season’s over, stock up for next year

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

This just in… Rest of Braves’ season cancelled due to lack of interest!

By Greg Norman

July 20, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

It’s the swirling gusts from the Irish sea.(blowing in when the Braves bat and blowing out when the Nats bat.)

By northbeach Scott

July 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

The four horseman of the apocalypse, Tavaras, Nunez, Carlyle, Reyes. The Braves are done.

I just marked the balance of my season tickets down on Stub Hub. Not sure I can stomach another live Braves homegame. Per what Section 412 said, many of the season ticket holders in 118 are dumping their tickets or just not going because the Braves are so painful to watch.

How can the Braves be considered a major league team with Francouer, Corky, Tavaras, Nunez, Norton on their 25-man? Answer: Their not legit, they are AAAA.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

If one of the Lord of the Rings movies could win best picture, Dark Knight should win itBravesDave

Who said it couldn’t? But it’s July, man. LOT of good movies to go. Maybe if they gave out the mid-year Oscars, it would win.

Going back to Day-Lewis, did you see There Will Be Blood? His character was about as terrifiying and “not a normal human being” (at times) as the Joker was.

Great acting is great acting. At the highest levels, impossible to say which is the greatest performance. But you’d get a lot of arguments that Day-Lewis is as good as it gets, period.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

That’s funny, Chief! Thanks.

That Z’s a funny guy. His lines after 3BMac’s first stolen base of this year were great.

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves should worry about getting to .500 first, then see where they stand. Because, even if the Braves sweep the next two series, they will just be at the .500 mark. And come on, lets face it, this team is not going to sweep the next two series. I will actually go out on a limb here and claim that THEY will get swept the next two series, maybe go 1-5. So unless I am mistaken, not many teams win the division with a losing record. So the most important goal now, is just to get to .500, IMHO.

By southbeachdietfreak

July 20, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Guess that’s why you don’t own a major leagues sports team, eh?—DOB

Yes, you’re right, DOB, let’s just keep trotting the same garbage out on the field night after night… who knows, maybe we’ll out do ‘88!! Then we’ll have a reason to be even prouder of this disaster of a team! Thanks for showing me the light!

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

BravesDave, no I haven’t seen ‘The Dark Knight’.I know my way of thinking on these things though.

Pacino’s role in the first two ‘Godfather’ films is unmatched.Take the greatest films ever and a character with great depth.Add a superbly deep, nuanced performance and you have the greatest realized character on film.

Some of my favorite performances in the past 15 or so years.

Day Lewis - ‘The Ballad of Jack and Rose’,’The Boxer’,’There will be blood’

Penn - ‘Dead man walking’

Francis Macdormand - ‘Fargo’

Robert Deniro - Jackie Brown/burned out ex-con

By Goat Horns

July 20, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

I think the players have made the decision for Wren - Sell, Sell, Sell!!!

This team has a better probability of finishing last in the east than first!

By jed

July 20, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz…….

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Can that range factor (or zone range factor, whatever it is) statistic be negative? Shaun?? I think Frenchy’s might have dipped below zero.

By DHD

July 20, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Needing to go on a winning streak to get back into the race, we lose 2 out of 3 against Washington at home. We need to concentrate on who we’re going to trade now. If we do it right, we can be right back in there next year. We have some young pitching and can pick up a couple of players with the salary we’ll lose next year. So, just sell, baby.

By Jake

July 20, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I mean Blanco is the slowest player we have. I’m surprised he is even leading the team in steals. I mean come on people think before you type. The only other person who could reasonably be up instead of him is Anderson. Jones, besides that hot streak he has had, has struggled in the majors. The only reason Lillibridge is up is because of injury, and Prado was meant to be nothing more than a utilty/bench player this year. They are not the main problem that ails this team.

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Oh, and here’s my reasoning on why the Braves will either get swept or go 1-5 the next 6 games.

They are facing a rookie in the first Florida game, who is actually 2-0 with a 0.84 ERA, so that could go either way, the Braves could beat him, or do their usual thing against pitchers they have never faced before, and lose.

The next game is against a lefty, need I say more. The third game in the Marlins series is against Nolasco, who has thrown really well this year. So the Marlins series could either be a sweep for them, or we may win the first 1.

Now to the Phillies series, the Projected starter for game 1 is Kendrick, who always seems to beat us, so we lose that game. The next projected starter is King Cole Hamels, enough said, then the 3rd game, I dont know, but does it matter. They could probably put their BP pitcher out there and beat us. So look for the Bravos to go 1-5 or get swept in 2 series.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

There is some hope in the 9th………..just keep them there ring………LOL!!!!!!!!!!1

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Another day of empty stats for Tex.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

That’s two multi-homer games for Teixeira this season, both in day games (June 22 vs. Seattle)

20th multi-homer game of his career, 5th time he’s homered from both sides of plate (also did it that day vs. Seattle)

By N200N

July 20, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Tex, Master of the meaningless homerun.

DOB, how is he doing in late and hopeless situations?

By Ben

July 20, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Runs scored by Nationals in 3-game series: 28 Games out of first place on July 20th: 6.5 Place in the division: 4th Looking toward the future: REALITY

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

See, heres another thing that gets me. We all know Joe Torre is a great manager, almost up there with Bobby Cox, but yet, he was constantly getting heat from the boss when his team wasnt playing well, threatening to be fired, so on and so forth. When Bobby’s team doesnt play well, front office goes and signs him to an extension. I love Bobby and all that he has done for the organization, but I think the best thing he could have done for the team next year, is to retire.

By N9

July 20, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

its FRANK WREN’S most critical period of his young tenure. The next 10 days will tell what hes all about with superstar TEX. His two HRs adds to his value at the right time!

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

I’m sure Tex dedicated his two homers today to the Scott Boras retirement fund. That’s all they were good for.

By NCBravesFan

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Good luck, Frank Wren. I hope he is able to make some good deals to help the Braves reload for the future.

I’m thinking that outside of Chipper, McCann, Esco and a few of the younger pitchers, everybody oughta be considered in trade talks.

That includes Hudson in my book, simply because his contract situation (affordable and under control for a while longer) makes him a nice trading chip. (Hate to lose a guy like that, but I think the Braves have to wonder if they’ll be heading back to the postseason this year or next, given the holes they have to fill - and the growing up the pitchers have to do in the meantime.)

By N9

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

get used to the “must win” theme the next 6 days!

By Couch Tater

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

A fitting end.

(note to Skip and Chip. Don’t read the blogs today.)

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

“Shocking Development”: Braves Lose to Nationals.

Whoa. Not the offense’s fault, that’s for sure!

By Original Jon

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

HAHA, who cares anymore, seriously. They just lost to a last place team. Wait, I take that back, they didnt lose, they got their rear ends handed to them on a silver platter. And it seems like it was mainly ex-braves that did all the damage. Great Job Braves, way to win the series against a lowly last place team.

By paul

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

After today’s performance, the Braves need someone that can get their attention, to kick their asses. I do not think Bobby can do it.

By bravos2249

July 20, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

McFann

speaking of Dye: CHICAGO — Jermaine Dye took a Horacio Ramirez pitch off the right knee and fell to the ground in what appeared to be excruciating pain in the fourth inning on Sunday. Dye remained on the ground while team trainers ran out to the plate. He was helped off the field by two staff members.

It was the second day in a row that **Ramirez hit Dye with a pitch. Dye exited Saturday’s game after taking a pitch off his left calf.

By Jeff321

July 20, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I bet no more than 1/8 of Tex’s rbi this season have mattered in the “win” column. In other words, the big choker can only perform when not under pressure.

By NR2D2

July 20, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Braves pitchers threw 194 pitches today.

Not a very Maddux-like total.

By BravesDave

July 20, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

A-Ville, you need to see the movie. McDormand was great in Fargo, but seriously, that performance is not remotely in the same league as Ledger in Dark Knight.

I am not going to argue that Daniel Day-Lewis hasn’t been unbelievable.

Just see the movie and get back to me. I think you will be swayed that it is one of the greatest performances, period.

By gotigers72

July 20, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Jo Jo needs to Go Go back to the minors and take the following with you: Francoeur, Corky [Nah, just release him], Tavares, Norton, Gotay [Nah,release him also], Charlie [he ain’t ready, YET], Acosta and Bennett when they come off of the DL.

Frenchy is all messed up mentally. Now it’s affecting his defense too. Jo Jo is this year’s Davies. Million dollar stuff, 10 cent head. Pitches to everybody like they’re Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth. IF he throws a strike, it’s right down Peachtree. And what the he** is Corky doing on a ML roster? This is the only team that would keep him.

I like Joe Simpson. He is a homer, but he also tells it like it is .I want the announcers for MY team to be homers. If I’m watching a national telecast, the announcers should not be biased, but it is perfectly fine for announcers for the home team to be homers.

This entire crew of umpires for this series were poor. Last night when McCann tripped over the SS, that was obstruction. Obstruction does not have to be intentional. They should have awarded him 3rd base. Check out the rule book if you don’t believe me. When Blanco got “picked off”, the pitcher clearly balked. He stepped toward home and threw to first. You have to step toward first if you’re gonna throw there. I didn’t know if he balked or not until they showed the replay, but then it was very clear that his right foot went toward home and not first. And the guy behind the plate today, what a joke. Very inconsistent, and then picked a fight when he wagged his finger at Carlyle.

By the way, Daniel Day-Lewis’ best performance was in “My Left Foot”. Amazing. I believe it won him an Oscar. If you haven’t seen it, rent it. It’s worth a look.

By GotCurry

July 20, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

I am sick of hearing Joe Simpson and Jon Sciambi talk about Francoeur’s “good at-bats”. At this stage in the season, it’s not a good at-bat unless he reaches base. Get rid of this fool and go after Nady.

By Derick Richards

July 20, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

It’s time to rebuild. Time to look to next season, despite the fact that the Braves are still single digits away from first place. This team for the last two months has mostly looked just lost and bad— not to mention mostly boring.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

bravos2249—

Sheesh! That’s terrible! Hope Jermaine’s gonna be OK. But a pitch to the knee like that…I doubt he’ll avoid the DL (that’s one way for the Braves to go after him).

So ol’ Ho Ram is still pitching, eh? Did not know that…

By Bobby Is A Zephyr

July 20, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

dave, you Tex’s agent. 4 homers in 2 games that had basically no effect on outcome. 20 percent of his output for season. least Skip has some guts(and integrity) said during game thing should Be Blown Up. Bet the red Headed Step Child and OJ Simpson will now tell us ‘Didn’t lose any ground’. Right IDIOTS, just lost 3 games on schedule to worst team in league and are now 6 1/2 behind 3 blankin teams. I hate Homers—the red headed kind and the son kind.

By Chop Chop

July 20, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

I prefer the hometown announcers to be sarcastic like Skip. I don’t like all the whining or “attaboys” for a “good” AB by Francoeur…on a first-pitch fly out. It’s garbage…and Joe Simpson knows it’s garbage, too.

Tex has always said he wants to stay here?

I like when Katy Temple hits us with something like that.

(Braves LIVE should be a call-in show. It would be fabulous.)

By N14

July 20, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

All time best performance: Jenna Jameson in The Masseuse.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

I was kind of positive til this morning……….right now, Id say……….lets start making the move we need to and work for 2010………..since next year bobby will still be around

By fastasballs

July 20, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Wow glad I worked this afternoon & missed the carnage that went on at Turner Field.

That’s two games they should have gained on the Phillies this weekend. Had that happened……..well, it didn’t so why both commenting on it.

Tex had his usual meaningless stats in a blow out loss. He’s right about having the #’s at the end of the season, but they are not worth what they appear to be, that’s for sure.

The Jokoeur got a hit I noticed. He probably thinks he’s in the “groove”. He won’t be going back where he belongs right now because of the way Wren handled it the first time. All in all I think Wren has done a decent job, minus bringing the Jokoeur back after 3 games & keeping Miller on the roster.

How the hell do you start Miller today? Where’s the ugency with this team? That’s right there doesn’t appear to be any with Cox at the helm. He’s managing like they are up 10 games in the standings. Did he not get the memo?

He probably thought the Braves would beat the Nats so he could sneak in guys like Norton & Miller. Granted, the pitching blew this game, but that’s been rare this season.

For nearly three seasons we have witnessed the most uninspiring baseball out of the Braves since the 80’s. Hopefully next year doesn’t mark season 4, but I’m not too excited if Cox remains at the helm. I mean no disrespect to the man, but the team needs a new direction & to close the book on the past.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

gotigers72—

I agree about the umpires. They have been terrible all year, but especially this series!

It was obstruction which, like you said, isn’t always intentional. You wonder what would have happened had the umpire awarded him third base…Norton grounded to short…prob’ly wouldn’t have knocked the run in…

That home plate umpire today? Holy smokes! He was one of the worst umpires I’ve seen all year. The way he wagged his finger at Carlyle was so uncalled for.

Chop Chop—

If Braves (Bats Don’t) Live was a call-in show, they have to delay it an hour so they could bleep stuff out…either that or get it rated…

As much as I would “like” to see what Bobby had to say after this one, I have no problem with missing this post-game show.

By Shamus Thacker

July 20, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Hex is a masterful hitter when we’re down by a touchdown or two.

By Jeff Yells FORE

July 20, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Does Lemke have a GED?? Man what a piece of work. Boogie sounds like he is real close to telling the truth but then thinks better of it. Simpson would have been ideal 1B coach—superfluous. Chip is a piece of decrepit mortar off the old block and old Dave tries to distract the masses with movies when he knows Sell Time is near.

By spotts

July 20, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

The only thing more painful than watching that game is watching Brian Jordan’s post-game analysis.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Not to state the obvious, but —

The question now is not whether Tex and Ohman are on the block. It’s whether the return the Braves can get for either is better than the draft choices.

By Shamus Thacker

July 20, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

At this point, we might as well be six and a half MILLION games outa first. Time to deal.

By Berg

July 20, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Those folks over at DirecTV sure are smart. They gave me a free weekend of MLB, so I watched the Twins play 3 games against the Rangers (2 games in HD). I think I’ll add the MLB package for the rest of the season so I can watch more Twins games. They’re sure a lot more fun to watch than than our local heroes.

By George N "Boston Brave" Spitz

July 20, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves should trade Mark Teixeira to Los Angeles for First Baseman James Loney and, if possible, outfielder Matt Kemp. Loney may not hit as many home runs but his average and on-base percentage will be good and his defense is more than satisfactory. Moreover, the Braves will have a first rate first baseman for a number of years who will not break the bank. Kemp will provide speed and a right-handed bat. Furthermore, Loney and Kemp are Afro-Americans, something rarely seen in the Braves lineup in recent years. After all, this is not the 1930s.

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

With all of the expiring contracts/potential payroll available for next year, and a relatively new GM looking to finally put his stamp on the organization, this would be the time of year when we’d acknowledge our failings this year but look ahead to 2009 with a good degree of optimism.

EXCEPT that Bobby Cox will be back next year. Oh well, as others have said, there’s 2010.

By the way, why is Bobby the only manager in the majors who has a lifetime contract? If the Braves finish this year, say, 20 games under 500 and playing the kind of listless, sloppy ball we saw today, why is Bobby guaranteed to come back? And why was he signed for next year part way through this year? At least the Braves usually go through the charade of the “end of year review of everyone’s performance”.

By Doc Holliday

July 20, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

4th place…………unacceptable……….what are you going to do Wren? What are you going to do Cox?

By Carl Jr

July 20, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

If Tex thinks he’s worth $22 million p/year, why didn’t he make the All-Star team?

By Robert

July 20, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Post-game quotes from Cox

1. “We hit the ball hard all day just right at them”

2. “It was just one bad pitch”

3.”Glavey’s gonna be back. Frenchy is back. Hamptey is coming back. We’re buyers”

The man is absolutely the stupdiest human being to have ever managed a big league baseball game

By CONNECTICUT BRAVES FAN

July 20, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

I agree with everything that Tony Austin posted about this crummy team. Can we trade Francouer straight up for Albert Pujhols? Send Bobby Cox directly to a gym for a 90 day workout and promote his “thin” bench coach to strenght & conditioning coach. I love the idea of a sacrifice bunt in the 1st inning. Gimme a break! Send Frenchy back to little league if the Cardinals don’t want him. By September they won’t be able to give their tickets away. Act fast Wren before this embarrasment becomes even worse.

By I was a teenage Francophile

July 20, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

A rose by any other name would smell as stenchy:

Stenchy, Francine, Fraudcoeur, Jokoeur…

By Scott Boras Cut

July 20, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Texeira, refuse to use that hockey like nickname, reminds me of Rocky Colavito in the 60’s with the Tigers. Would leave 6 guys in scoring position against the Yankees in a tie game and then after New York scores 8 in top of the 10th he hits a solo home run and the idiots go wild.

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m sure you were putting together your game notes, or scouting report, or other sutch stats-related piece for the AJC. But did you really thing that anybody on this blog would care about Tex’s multi-home run game stats? Everyone’s allowed a mulligan on a useless post…tee up another one.

By Robert

July 20, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

“That’s right there doesn’t appear to be any with Cox at the helm. He’s managing like they are up 10 games in the standings. Did he not get the memo?”

What makes you think Cox can read?

By Warren S.

July 20, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox only needs to look at his bench coach to pep up the Braves defense. Washington’s outfield seemed to be in the right place on every ball hit while the Braves were not.

Coaching, coaching, coaching.

The quick recall of Frenchy was a bad mistake. He should have stayed down and worked on his fundamentals in fielding along with his hitting. He needs to learn the strike zone and to quit pressing so hard in the outfield.

By Scott Boras Cut

July 20, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

ijohnathan, think davey has a Tex Bobble Head Doll or Scott Boras Bobblehead Doll? Man that was weak, and no mulligan for something that jonesish.

By Ralph Garr

July 20, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Thought I heard at golf course today. If braves 10 out in August and little Chipper is batting 360 with enough at bats to qualify for batting title he will suffer a severly pulled groin and miss rest of season. Is that really Chipper?/Think we have chance to see.

By Back Up The Truck

July 20, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Stick A fork in’em they’re done!!

By GotCurry

July 20, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Carl Jr, why don’t you look at some of the other first basemen in the NL: Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Derek Lee, Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Howard…you may have heard of them.

By bobby

July 20, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

If I was a Braves player, I would call Wren and volunteer to be traded.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

A few choice quotes from Teixeira after this debacle:

“It was pretty embarrassing. We didn’t do anything it took to win a game. It’s tough to swallow when we’re in a must-win situation, and we were completely flat. Offensively, defensively, pitching … we didn’t do anything right.”

“As bad as you can play a game, that was it. From all aspects of the game. We just got our butts kicked.”

“The season’s not over — we’re going to keep fighting. But we need to go on a major roll. We need to do more than win series.”

On whether this makes him think more about possibility he’ll be traded:

“Yeah. That’s part of the game. I’ve always said I want to stay here and see this thing through. But at the same time, business is business, and sometimes things have to change.”

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Frenchy’s defensive stats (Range Factor and Zone Rating):

2005 RF 2.20, ZR .893

2006 RF 2.08, ZR .867

2007 RF 2.17, ZR .875

2008 RF 1.87, ZR .853

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

hey, I just noticed a remarkable stat: Before today, Corky was 0-for-25 in day games.

By matt

July 20, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

I thought Frenchy worked out his swing in Mississippi ? I have yet to see an improvement.

By GotCurry

July 20, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

That is remarkable, Dave. I had no idea that Corky sucked (some Sunday sarcasm for ya).

By pratvillenolzfan

July 20, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve got an idea on how Franceour can help the Braves win the division….

Trade him to the Mets….They need an outfielder…..

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

One stat I’ve never known what the heck it means: Range Factor.

By garla

July 20, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, what are your thoughts on this. It appears the Braves aren’t going to be able to make a run. Tex says all the right things to make you think he’d consider resigning with Atlanta. Who knows if the Braves feel if they can even make an offer. If they are going to attempt to resign him, though it rarely happens, would they be able to trade him and then resign him at the end of the year. I think it would have to be something that’s explained on the front end on the intentions. Do you think that’s even a remote possibility?

By N888

July 20, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

try this

fielding stats

Range Factor = ((PO + A) divided by innings)

By sfblump

July 20, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

DOB - After Tex made the “business is business, and sometimes things have to change…” quote, how long do you think it will be before Wren makes the trade. 24 - 48 hours is my guess

By fastasballs

July 20, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

If the Phillies would just pull their weight these games wouldn’t even be an issue. Instead, by default the Braves are within stiking distance. Granted 6 1/2 may as well be 26 1/2 with the way this team is playing.

For just once it would nice to see Cox be a little objective with this team. Something besides over praising the other team & chalking everything up to bad luck. He doesn’t have to throw the team under the bus, but being honest about the state of the team isn’t going to kill him.

The players know the team is bad, but the manager doesn’t. What’s wrong with that picture?

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

Neighteighteight—

Thanks. But what does range factor tell about a player? I mean, what’s considered to be a “good” range factor?

By rgbutterfly

July 20, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

What I don’t understand is why did the Braves give up on Willie Harris? Was he not one of the highlights of last season with his over-the-wall catches? Yes, he did have slumps last season, but did not Kelly Johnson, yet he is still on the team. I believe the Braves give up on many players that come back to haunt them. With Willie, the Braves could have had a player who could play multiply positions in the outfield and can actually run down balls. He doesn’t get hurt often, so he was very dependable. But the Braves chose to let him leave and now it haunts them. Branco is a go player but Willie is a outfield highlight with his catches. The Braves do not have one player who actually runs down balls, they watches them fall. Even Frenchy has gotten into the act-he cannot hit or throw accurately. Yes, Andruw couldn’t hit but he did get to many balls in the outfield.

By LT-AA Blogger

July 20, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, was that Corky stat more sarcasm? Had to be, right?

The only thing remarkable about Corky is that he is on a major league roster. Come to think of it- remarkable is not the term, mind blowing, mind numbing, etc…………

By adam

July 20, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

I’m shocked the Braves havent already traded Tex. I mean do they really think they have a shot to win the World Series this year ? I dont care if the Braves are only 6.5 games behind 1st, even if they somehow miraculously made the playoffs there is no way they would get past the 1st round.

By Interested Observer

July 20, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Ok, time to get serious now. Who do you think the top suitors for Tex will be? I’m thinking the Angels or Dbacks. Maybe the Red Sox (although Ortiz is coming back), Yankees, or Dodgers.

I’ve heard several teams are interested in Brian Fuentes from the Rockies. That’s probably the same market for Ohman.

Somebody needs to keep an eye on Jim Fregosi. See if he makes any unusual diversions to go see a team.

By monty

July 20, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

rg butterfly

the Braves are the only team Willie Harris can hit against. He’s batting in the low ,200’s against everyone else. THE sad thing for Willie is why can’t he do what he did against others. Don’t tell me sports isn’t largely psychological.

By ccrider

July 20, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

I said this 2 weeks ago and DOB jumped my case, but this team is finished for 2008. I have been a huge fan since the team arrived( I’m a native of Atlanta), but other than Chipper, Texiera, McCann and Escobar(before he was hurt)they are the only starting players that either have the ability (Kelly And Jeff F.) or limited talent Kotsay, Blanco to perform at a winning level. This is not a playoff team!! Jeff (Horrible offense and defense) and Kelly (Horrible defense average at best offense), Blanco( average to below average in all areas) and Kotsay (injured). Our bench is the worse in baseball, our outfield is the worse in baseball. The starting pitchers have done an admirable job, but the inexperience and being asked to pitch deep into games is starting to show their limits. Reyes, Jurjjens and Morton are starting to look tired and it shows in their control of their pitches. The bullpen is very shallow beyond Gonzalez, Ohman, Boyer. I mean Ring, Taverez, Carlyle and Nunez: PLEASE!!!! The rosters at AAA and AA are full of not ready for prime time players. Any true Braves fan that looks at this team with their head instead of their heart would see this. We need to do the following: Make an OFFER( not a lowball one) to Tex, If he takes it great if not, exhaust all possibilities in making a trade that will 1. be better than the 2 draft picks we would get and 2. Fill at least one outfield need for next year. The next move look for trade partners for Ohman, Kelly Johnson and Kotsay. We can resign Ohman or Joe Biemel after the season. Kelly will always make too many errors for a contending team and his offense will not be that good to offset the errors. Kotsay get a low level prospect for, like we did with Kyle Davies. Finally, CUT LOOSE the following Corky, Gotay and Norton. Bring up players with upside Sammons, D. Hernandez, Anderson, B. Jones, Loadenthal or Canizaires. Frank Wren start looking at trades to fix this mess for next season and beyond, DON’T waste prospects for a short term fix!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

LT-AA, it was and wasn’t. I mean, 0-for-25 is pretty stunning, even for the Corkster. Especially considering that’s when he gets almost all his starts, in day games.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

What are your thoughts on this. It appears the Braves aren’t going to be able to make a run. Tex says all the right things to make you think he’d consider resigning with Atlanta. Who knows if the Braves feel if they can even make an offer. If they are going to attempt to resign him, though it rarely happens, would they be able to trade him and then resign him at the end of the year…. Do you think that’s even a remote possibility?garla

In a word, no.

Can’t see that happening. At all.

By Go Braves and take the Falcons with you

July 20, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

Another Miserable Day at the Ted All the comments above notwithstanding, has anybody given any thought to the idea that the inept performance by pitchers may have something to do with the inadequacy of the pitching coach? There have been lots of injuries to pitchers since this goofball has been on board. Maybe it has to do with the way they’re prepping. Starters need to be able to get through seven at a minimum. They can barely do five. No bullpen is that good. Also, this business of bringing in the same bullpen guys on consecutive days is idiotic. Carlyle was capable of finishing Saturday night’s game, but no, we had to use a new pitcher every inning (and the same cast today). Lunacy. What the Braves need is a new manager, new pitching coach and starting pitching, in that order.

Teixeira should be signed, if not what was the purpose of last year’s trade and shipping of lots of talent to Texas?

Let’s get on with it.

By monty

July 20, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Why would Tex even want to stay with the Braves for a hometown dicount? THEy stink! This isn’t the team of the 90’s. THey are my team but they stink! Why not go play for a team that’s headed for the playoffs and make more money and possibly get a Ring? He won’t be doing that with Atlanta anytime soon.

By Mike Hampton's Vajayjay

July 20, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

I’ve been at the beach several days…nice to come home and see they lost 2 of 3 to the cellar dwellers.

Someone update me…has jojo been sent to A ball yet?

Frenchy still not hitting his weight?

Chipper still slumping?

Has my daddy retired?

By X

July 20, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Not time for Francouer to come up, huh? You implied it was after he homered against LA. Nice second guessing.

By brian

July 20, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

I agree with you goathorn. The players have made this decision. Whether they are 6 back or 10 back the way they played the last 2 games indicates that they are out of the race.

It is time to explore trade options. I agree that the Braves have to decide if these options are better than the potential of the draft picks. I am sure Frank Wren is shopping Texeira and Ohman. There will be a buyer for Tex - Yankees, Angels, and Dodgers would have to be in the mix (Sexton is not the answer for the Yanks), and possibly the Red Sox depending on Ortiz. Ohman will be very popular and probably one of the top lefty relievers on the trade block behind Fuentes.

Hudson is an interesting proposition. Hudson has a very friendly contract so I would be very surprised if the Braves trade him, but because the contract is so friendly it would really make his trade value soar. He may not be Sabathia but he is not a free agent at the end of the year. If the Braves could pull a Colon type trade like the Indians did to the Expos we would have to listen.

At the very least, changing the chemistry of this team is a must. We are still a 3 run homerun team. We need speed and contact hitters to go along with our share of power hitters (Chipper, McCann, and I would love to say Francoeur). Kellie should be in the 6 or 7 hole, not hitting second. Escobar hitting second is solid. Blanco is a 4th OF not a starter.

The core of the future Braves was to be Frenchy and McCann - McCann has shown that this is very true for him but Frenchy really has everyone questioning whether he will be a cornerstone of the future.

I know nothing will be addressed with coaching but coaching has to be questioned. This has not been Cox’s finest year but he is a Hall of Famer who will retire when he is ready to. Our pitching staff has done amazing considering the injuries and overuse of the bullpen and I do think that McDowell deserves a lot of credit for this. As much as I like TP, the continuing decline in hitting makes me question his effectiveness as a coach. The Braves probably could use a kick a$$ bench coach - someone to light a fire under players when needed.

Good luck Wren. The Fan Base is with you. In the next 10 days or so I expect much will be done to address the present and the future of the Braves

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

ljonathan, why are your posts so consistently bad? Seriously, are you just one of those dudes that’s neither interesting nor at all humorous?

Jeff Yells FORE: Distracting with movies? Distracting from what, and why? I mean, you should really stretch out that brain muscle and think before you type. What in the hell would I be distractingt your from or for? I couldn’t care less if you continue to read my game stories or blogs about the Braves this season. Seriously, if you don’t want to read the blog, which has and will continue to include music, movie and occasional BBQ references (haven’t had a good one of those lately), then simply don’t read.

The team stinks these days, and it’ll take a minor miracle for them to turn it around and make the playoffs at this point. A Tex trade seems more likely by the day. Don’t allow yourself to be distracted, try to pay attention to more than one subject at a time. You can do it. You can think of both a really good movie you should see, plus the fact the Braves’ season is going down the tubes — you can’t think of all this stuff at once.

But if not, then please, don’t let me distract you with talk of The Dark Knight. Focus on the Braves’ season. Stay focused.

There, good job.

By Lifetime Contract

July 20, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

“It was pretty embarrassing. We didn’t do anything it took to win a game. It’s tough to swallow when we’re in a must-win situation, and we were completely flat. Offensively, defensively, pitching … we didn’t do anything right.”

This quote is coming straight from the horses (players) mouth! I have a simple, straight forward question here. Who in the hell is responsible for seeing that the team is up to play these “must-win” games?

Yeah, I thought so.

By Einstein

July 20, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Now we all know what John S’s secret was…Ted’s unlimited checkbook. Without that, his Braves are just Kansas City. And his stooge Wren isn’t any different. Prepare for seven (or more) lean years. Kinda makes Cox an average manager, too.

By tbo

July 20, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

DOB. I would like to know why I never see you call it like it is with Bobby Cox. Most people on this blob understand what is wrong with this team. Its Bobby Cox playing people like Corky Miller, mishandling the bullpen, the team not knowing how to bunt, the team playing with no enthusiam, fire, etc. Come on man. Is it not obvious? Apparently it is not obvious to the front office either.

By Gosh, By Golly and By Jove

July 20, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

at what point does someone come from the Braves dugout to stand between Bobby and the ump when Cox is losing it like he did on that ejection? DOB

Chino probably thought about it but, um, couldn’t jump up and get out there in time. Even in the summer heat, burgers and fries get cold in minutes.

By flange1

July 20, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Well that was about the most depressing week end of baseball that I can remember.

Hope the team can at least play at a higher level in Florida.

Guess we at least need to THINK about the market for Tex. As Steve Phillips said tonight though, most of the teams that are in the race have decent guys at 1B.

Will they try to upgrade for 1/2 a season?

Who is still “in it”: NL East Marlins, Phillies and Mets. Don’t see a deal with this group, with the Marlins as a far outside chance.

NL Central Cubs, Brewers and Cards. No deals here either

NL West Dodgers and Diamondbacks. 2 potential buyers, the Dodgers seem to be the ultimate flake team to try to deal with right now, so D backs are possible.

AL East Rays, Red Sox, Yankees. All of these are possible with the Yankees being the most probable but the need soesn’t seem to be great here

AL Central White Sox, Twins and Tigers. All of these teams have quality guys at 1B.

AL West Angels. Angels could upgrade, but why mess with what is working and it is not their style.

It looks to me like the D backs are the team. Will they take on salary? DO they have anything of interest?

Guess we will see…

By AdirondackDave

July 20, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

DOB — And I’m guessing Corky isn’t a whole lot better at night. Jeez… I’ve been a Bobby fan for a long time but this was just too much. Time to send him and his eject-act to the farm for good.

By phil

July 20, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

I’m sick of the Braves resting on their laurels of a patient hall-of-fame manager who is a players manager Blah Blah. It’s time to get someone to light a fire under these bums. And our scout department must be questioned. Look at the Marlins- they have a fire sale every 3 years, and their scouting dept keeps the really good talent coming at a rock bottom price.This team is playing without any fire in their belly and that comes from the top. Well, Framk Wren, let’s see what you’re made of- are you going to do something? By the way, I’m going to be the guy behind the first base dugout with a bag over my head

By VAROADRUNNER

July 20, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

I had the “pleasure” of listening to Don Suton on the Nats netwrk.l He took som shots at Cox and Franceour. Nice to her hm again!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Einstein,

Ted and his “unlimited” checkbook went away around 1998. TW kept the payroll in the middle of the pack when Ted sold TBS, CNN, Turner Sports, etc.

I think Wren/Cox have made a couple of mistakes with this bunch — no OF depth, Norton, Corky and Gotay occupying roster spots. They were hoping Yunel was the second coming of Hanley Ramirez and he isn’t, though he might be eventually. They were hoping that Schafer or B. Jones would catch lightining in a bottle this spring and be solid contributors. They didn’t and the HGH deal set Schafer back at least one year.

Other than that, the front office has done OK with what they had. It just wasn’t much.

Injuries took their toll this season and they’ve tried to fill several roster spots with bargain-basement players who didn’t work out.

By monty

July 20, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

The very fact that Corky”defensive genius” is still on the roster with his below.100 batting average speaks volumes about Braves management. Almost nobody could be that bad. Half of the pitchers on the Braves can hit better than that and I certainly haven’t seen anything defensively that says we should put up with that kind of batting average!

By NCBravesFan

July 20, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Brian re: Hudson … you said what I was trying to say earlier so well. He’d be tough to give up, but at this point, he’s got a lot more trade value —right now— than Tex does (by virtue of contract/control circumstances).

Also, it’s been three years since the Braves went to the postseason, and it’s not like the East has been much of a Beast in that time.

So it would seem that an argument could be made for making more bold decisions in the coming weeks/months.

By Anal Bob

July 20, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

It’s re-sign DOB,not resign.

By Shamus Thacker

July 20, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Corky The Vampire Hitter. Hits only at night….

By DesiBrave

July 20, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

DOB don’t think I am crazy but Braves can sweep Marlins in the upcoming series. Braves got 27 hits in the series against Nationals. That means the team is hitting well. BC is right that the hits went straight to the fielders.

This year all our games againt nationals will be tough. Because they have players like Willie Harris, Langerhans who nothing else to do but to take a revenge on their former employers for dumping them. I am not saying we should keep them but those guys are giving their 1000% on the field to prove a point to BC.

IF we get 27 hits against marlins and with Campillo, Morton and Hudson going against them I have very high hopes on the Braves to do well and sweep the marlins.

Just one or two key plays changed the entire course of games today and yesterday.

What if McCann got a hit with bases loaded and what if Norton hit his Homer when bases loaded instead of in the 9th inning the game would have gone a different course.

JJ did say before the game yesterday that the 9 day gap actually made him struggle getting command over some of his pitches and that was another reason for he getting into jams last game.

I have still very high hopes on the Braves to turn this around. Chipper always did well against Florida, and Teixeria is hot right with those two homers today, and McCann will be back in the lineup..,

and we wont see Corky Miller except in the extra innings games the rest of the month. There aren’t any day games after a night game the rest of the month.

Go Braves !!!! Go sweep the marlins and then the phillies

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the McCann story, Chief.

Chipper: “He’s a competitor, man, and he’s a smart ballplayer. He’s doing everything in his power to win a ballgame. I’ll take eight other guys just like him.”

Great quote from the All-Star.

(I’ll take eight other guys like him, too, Chip!)

3BMac is really showing intensity these days. I like to see him take those extra bases, and things like that (and showing some emotion after making a bad out when they needed a good hit. I can’t stand it when guys act like they don’t even care—and the Braves seem to do that sometimes).

By gayle

July 20, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Tex is a very good player, but he has not helped this team. Sub .500 baseball since joining the club is not the kind of impact you are looking from a player looking for $20 million/year.

Can someone please pull the plug, send Bobby somewhere other than the dugout? Look at the job Fredi Gonzalez is doing in Florida. The Braves let him get away so that Captain Cox can stay in charge of his sinking ship.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

DesiBrave There aren’t any day games after a night game the rest of the month.

Sorry to say, but Saturday’s game is on at 3:55…on FOX…against the Fillies.

Folks, it don’t get much worse than that!

By bravos2249

July 20, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

McFann sometimes you can’t make a basis about players on RF, but we’ve seen Jeff enough to not need the stats to know he just ain’t got it this year and doesn’t need to be playing.

Anyway to really answer you his range factor is lower than Griffey’s and Dunn’s but higher than Bay’s. Based on stats I looked up typically your LF has a range factor of about 1.70-1.90. CF should have atleast a 2.20 and great ones are 2.60-3.00. Now, your RF should be in the middle, there’s some rule about put the best arm in RF…I say CF but…your RF usually has a 2.00 and the avg is around 2.30…..

I’ve read that range factor is overrated and it’s not accurate because of different pitchers and stuff, but plain and simple players should catch the ball and field it correctly.

Obviously teams we play only twice don’t run on Jeff but teams we play constantly have.

OT: Blanco has seemed to work on his throws and accuracy that’s about the only positive I got from today

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

DesiBrave

Are you for real?

By prattvillenolzfan

July 20, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

desibrave

I quit drinking years ago, but whatever your on….

could you please pass the bottle

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Anal Bob, where did I say resign? I just cut-and-pasted garla’s post, didn’t edit it. If I were Anal DOB, I’d have probably edited it.

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

DOB

Nice retort, Davey boy. Should have captained the debating team with that kind of material.

Still trying to understand how knowing the number of times Tex has homered more than once in a game, or from opposite sides, is the least bit interesting or relevant after today’s game.

Unless you’re Scott Boras.

If you could provide stats on how many of those occasions didn’t lead to a victory by his team, perhaps that might merit a psot from the oh so humble Blog leader.

By ncscoots

July 20, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Most people on this blob understand what is wrong with this team.

Yes, yes, yes, the blinding baseball brilliance of the blog (or blob, in some universes) is always on display in this forum. So much so that I tend to nowadays treat it as I do the sun, and avert my eyes as to not be left sightless.

But, query me this: if so many here have put the season to rest, and Wren proceeds in anything close to the way the BBBB (see above) desires, then what shall become the topic for complaint? Will bloggers be able to produce suitable blistering content, having already savaged the team, coaches, management, groundskeepers, and ballboys? Or, will the BBBB find itself devoid of the ability to produce a post not of the stood-up-at-the-prom type (what with the season over and all)?

I must say, the future of the blog seems problematic. I fear for its ability to produce the requisite number of page hits commensurate with its long and hallowed standing, were it reduced by the inability of its current contributors to produce anything other than rants. Yes, bad days could lie ahead for ye old blog (and the blob, too, I’m guessing).

DOB, perhaps this might be a blessing. For these circumstances may produce not only a BBQ thread (though I hold out no hope for a good one; that would be unseemly greed), but may also lead the way back to a more diversified content altogether (by that, of course, I mean that 90% of the posts won’t consist of the word “sucks” in its various forms).

Yes, the blog may be in for interesting times. At a crossroads, and so forth. Whither the blog, if you will. Film at 11.

By bravos2249

July 20, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

McFann

Also in other terms Chipper doesn’t lead 3rd basemen in Fielding % or RF but he leads in Zone Range.

Zone rating: The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive “zone,” as measured by STATS, Inc.

By Caballo Muerto

July 20, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox…ah…Jeff Francoeur…ah…nevermind

By The genius that is Bobby Cox

July 20, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

“Bad day,” said manager Bobby Cox… Bad ballgame,” he added. “We can do better than that, for sure.”

Yeah.

They could have lost 15-7.

Or 15-8.

Or 15-9.

etc…

By bravos2249

July 20, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

VAROADRUNNER

What did Sutton say?

By tbo

July 20, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Hey all you blog (blob) ranters out there. Don’t misspell a word or you will be doomed to another rant from the REAL bloggers out there who are looking for a more diversified content in blogging.

By brent a.

July 20, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see Tex re-up tomorrow, and have it spark the team offensively the same way his trade to the Braves did last July.

Provide the team with the confidence to know that this is their team, and there is the off-chance that someone will be added to improve their chances at winning.

But, first off, I don’t think that’s happening, and second, I can only imagine that after the last 2 days, Tex can’t help but be thinking about the possibility of playing in a pennant race (in another city) here in about 2 weeks.

That has to be an odd-feeling, even for a “professional” athlete, to one day be fighting to get your team back in the race, while knowing at the same time that at any moment, you may well be shipped off and play for a team that actually has a good chance to win a championship.

Even moreso, is the reality that your current performance, could potentially have an impact on your future team’s ability to make the post-season, as you could impact wins and losses of your future team by your play.

I guess that’s why athletes will typically say, “I just take care of business on the field.” There really is not much they can do other than play.
That being said, I think a lot of these guys, especially the intelligent ones, and the veterans, spend a lot of time thinking about the business side of the game, which is why you see so many older players taking discounts to play for the team they want, while younger guys typically play for the biggest contract.

By andy k.

July 20, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

DOB: Why isn’t Jorge Julio up with the big club yet? He’s been quite impressive down in Richmond…

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: Absolutely hilarious post (8:32). And, I might add, very true.

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

bravos2249—

Thanks! Francoeur’s range factor is 1.89, so I’m guessing that’s average to below-average.

Since Chipper doesn’t lead 3rd basemen in Fielding %, maybe he’ll win the Gold Glove this year! I mean, all it takes is an F% in the .940’s…

(Not surprise to hear he leads in “Zone Factor”. He gets to a lot of balls in his zone.)

ncscoots—

That was a hilarious post!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)

July 20, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Just got back from vacation, did I miss anything?

Um, apparently not.

By Drummerdad

July 20, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Baby Braves (w/ the exception of BMac) haven’t grown up. We’re back to the days before Schuerholz.
DOB, interesting comments about the farm system and the need to recall Frenchy after a few games. You get the feeling that the Braves don’t have much confidence in what they’ve got down on the farm right now. Is there a point where you tell Mike Hampton that you’re done? At this point, how much difference can he make if he comes back?

By TNJeff

July 20, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

OK - how many idiots including press guys are now saying “this next series is a must win”

Trade early & trade often & begin with cry-baby Frenchy

By TK

July 20, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

OK…now is it time for the Braves to be sellers before the 31st?

By Drummerdad

July 20, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

I think Frenchy is afflicted from a lifetime of living in “hero syndrome”. Probably feels like he’s supposed to be the hero every time he comes to the plate.
Dale Murphy was having a pretty bad time of things in the last couple of seasons before he left. When Bob Gibson was the pitching coach under Joe Torre, Gibby said that Murph was an “instinctive hitter”, not very disciplined. When pitchers figured out that he wasn’t reading curve balls he got a steady diet of them. Frenchy is starting to look a lot like Murph up there.

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, what are ”all the right things” Tex is saying ? Chipper is unambigous.He says he wants to retire a Brave and is willing to work with the team.Smoltz has always spoken for himself in the same way.

All I’ve heard from Tex is the expected blather.What would he say ? I’m going for the bucks ?

Unless he makes a statement of substance it’s just Boras’ BS in my opinion.

Tex is in all probability playing for another team next season.I think the smart move would be to maximize his value.That means finding the best suitor by 7-31.

By N8

July 20, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

DOB

I know the Cubs have Derek Lee already on their roster. But knowing Tex’s day/night splits, and the amount of day games the Cubs play, I’d seriously think about going after him. Tex is 4 years younger, and almost as smooth as Lee with the glove.

But, Lee is signed through 2010 and has a complete no trade clause. So that might be the end of that thought.

But, just saying…..

scoots

Agree with DOB. Your post was funny. But seriously, if you watched the game today, find a positive “point” for me to focus on. Tex hitting two homers? OK. He just raised his trade value, by hitting two HR’s that had ZERO bearing on the outcome of the game.

I’m quite POSITIVE, that that is a fact.

Besides. Ye have little faith. There would be plenty for me to complain about in a 162-0 season.

In all seriousness, I’ve actually “enjoyed” the games more the past couple of weeks, knowing that the outcome of this season is LONG GONE and in the books. Nothing to really get mad about anymore.

Time to bring up more kids, and let them get their “wings”.

Earlier today, I said that Jo-Jo is not ready to make 35 starts for a team in the pennant race. Well, in about a week this team will be in no such race, which means that Jo-Jo will fit in perfectly, and get another 15 or so big-league starts with ZERO pressure (other than securing a spot in the 2009 rotation), to worry about.

Which, even a Debbie Downer like myself, can see the silver lining and realize that that is EXACTLY what needs to happen for Jo-Jo to have a successful 2009 campaign.

Hell, Jeffrey might actually benefit from the Braves fans not caring about this season anymore, and be allowed to “find his stroke” in meaningless games.

I think if Bobby is going to be the manager next year (all signs say he will be), then he’s going to find out an AWFUL lot about what kind of character these guys have when the games are meaningless.

I remember reading a quote from an NFL coach (might have been Marv Levy), stating that he could care less about how his players “react” to a win, but he found out the true “character” of his players when they were losing.

A guy that hustles down the 1st base line in a blowout game in late September between two teams that are out of the race, is a guy I want on my team any day of the week.

While these games might not “mean” anything, I will be watching closely to the prospects (and bubble guys), the rest of the way. Obviously I don’t get to choose who makes the roster next year, but that doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion on players “hustle” and heart, the rest of the way.

By geauxbraves2000

July 20, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Buy/Sell. Trade Tex, get a LF/RF with some pop, trade Ohman for a good prospect or two, and trade the Golden Boy to a small market team so he can get out of the spotlight for a while. That just may do him some good.

I don’t think this team is good enough to contend this year, at least not consistent enough, but that doesn’t mean next year can’t be special with a few well placed trades this year.

Geaux Braves!!

By Carl Jr

July 20, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Hey GotCurry, Ryan Howard is hitting .237 with 131 K’s and Adrian Gonzalez is hitting .277. That’s pretty sad when when you think you’re worth $22 million and you throw those names out there as “roadblocks” to the All-Star game. For $22 million, Tex maybe should even challenge Derek Lee’s lofty .303 number. Maybe you should look at performance instead of the name. Or do numbers confuse you?

By Crazy Stats Katz

July 20, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Just got back from vacation, did I miss anything?

Cooch, was it 72 hours of detox or 72 hours of involuntary commitment at a mental ward?

Any luck finding the woman you sorely need?

By richbrave

July 20, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

I don’t see the Braves much these days, but I got an eye-full last night of Royce Ring and today of JoJo Reyes. Maybe they had bad starts I don’t know. From where I sat, they both appear to be throwers not pitchers. And Reyes couldn’t find the plate with a homing device.

I don’t blame Bobby for getting thrown out. Looked like he came out of the dugout and asked to be tossed. 1975 all over again. Thank God I’m not buying MLB packages and such. It really would be a waste.

Come on LIBERTY, up the payroll 30 million or so and lets get some players. Really frosts my grapes to know we’re giving the Mets OUR first round pick for signing GLAVINE. Well, here’s hoping the pitching comes around, but based on this series I wouldn’t count on it.

Keep plugging CHARLIE MORTON. You should have no trouble cracking the starting rotation on a permanent basis.

By Greg

July 20, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

It looks like the real Jo Jo Reyes has come back from the All-Star Break to replace the guy who looked like him but could pitch. You can’t blame the offense on this one. Our starting pitching has been ungodly all weekend and Reyes just put the cherry on top with this performance.

It looks like we’re trading Texeira and Ohman. I predict we get more for Ohman. Relief pitchers are better rentals for contenders than bats.

BTW, I’ve been a Braves fan since ’68, and I’ve watched a lot of awful games. Today’s spectacle of ineptness ranks in the top-10.

By Random

July 20, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79: “The Marlins are a sad franchise whos cheap owner dosent deserve the 2 titles he “borrowed” .”

H. Wayne Huizenga owned the Marlins in 1997. John Henry owned the Marlins from 1998-2001. Jeffrey Loria owned tha Marlins in 2003.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

N8,

If the Braves continue to spin their wheels, it’ll be interesting to see if Frenchy actually shows any progress. He continues to put up some of the ugliest swings I’ve ever seen a professional ballplayer make when he sees breaking pitches either in on his hands or off the plate away.

He may not be teachable. And whether he is or isn’t the Braves are probably stuck with him for two or maybe three more years. They’ll probably keep him in the lineup and hope he turns it around until Heyward is ready — which will be at the earliest 2010?

If I were in the front office I’d pick up a replacement-level RF rental for the rest of the year, send Frenchy back to the minors and see if he improves. (Yes that means I’m writing off 2008.)

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Greg BTW, I’ve been a Braves fan since ’68, and I’ve watched a lot of awful games. Today’s spectacle of ineptness ranks in the top-10.

Worse than Friday’s win, I’m guessing.

By Crabby Bill

July 20, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Well ain’t this one lovely pile of excrement.This team is as soft and squishy as a soggy marshmallow.

By SNIPER-69

July 20, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Mets back in 1st braves still in 4th with their heads up their a-s-s-e-s. I think that a good assessment of the situation. Don’t you DOB?

By DesiBrave

July 20, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

All you guys out there talking rubbish about Braves and Francouer when they are down should think twice before you call yourselves as fans. Ever since Frenchie debuted he was looked at as the future of the franchise and there were talks that the team should be built around him. One bad half season has changed your impression on him. Obviously francouer is confused right now. Every darn dick and harry is going to him with batting tips to help him. We all knew he had a very unorthodox swing and as long as those swings resulted in hits we all celebrated and enjoyed it. No one wanted to correct his technique and mechanics though he had ugly swings in the past. There is a saying “Form is temporary and Class is permanent”. If Francouer has class he would come back from this bad form and that can’t be decided in half season. He needs more time to settle down. I would say leave him alone for the rest of the season. I see posts guys commenting about his throws hitting the screens etc.., It is not the first time it happened and it happened in the past and we admired his arm strength singing Kumbaya that we have our own Guerrero. Yes I am for real and I am writing this in my proper senses and I am HAPPY to say I am “BRAVES FAN FOR LIFE” and I wont talk rubbish when my team is down. I will never give up on this team no matter what happens. That is what a FAN does and I am supporting them. Just by watching the games for 3hrs a day we think we know so much that we find faults about those players whereas for them it is their profession. All those guys talking about selling, you are totally out of your minds. There is nothing there to sell. Every team out there in contention don’t need to buy Teix to win. He is not having a phenomenal year , he is not even an all star this year.. So keep him and hope for a miracle the rest of the year. Teix has a tendency to get hot in the Aug and Sep and see if that can help. Keep the chances of resigning him open. Glavine is showing encouragement, Soriano and escobar are back, Diaz and Bennett will be back end of this week we will have a team that looks like the starting day team (I would say minus Smoltz as he is going to be on the team helping the pitchers)

     I have heard that Smoltz  is done pitching and is not returning. Think about all those 50million+ dollars Braves will have to spend next year. So get some top notch free agents available next year and you  don't have to sell anyone on this team right now.

      What kinda statement that it makes if you go trade Teix now? Well if there are offers out there that you can't reject it is a different story. Teix is not going to get anything in return right now So keep him. That will help the rest of the team to think they are still contenders and give their best. That is how an org is run and I believe Braves are a class organization. 

     Go BRAVES !!

By McFann Ô

July 20, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies—

I think they should go after Nady!! (I’m not writing off 2008 yet.)

Wonder what the Braves could get if they packaged Francoeur, Ho-Ho, and, say…Ohman (although, I like Ohman)…prob’ly not much. Maybe a bag of baseballs for JF and Ho-Ho, and some sort of prospect thrown in for Ohman.

That would be a bad trade…I’d stink as a GM. : >

Night, all!!

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger: I must be missing something. Where did I ever say or write that Tex is “saying all the right things”? Or did you just figure you’d attribute something to me and put quote marks around it, when I never wrote anything even remotely similar to that? Help me out here.

OK…now is it time for the Braves to be sellers before the 31st?TK

You sound like a little kid, man. OK, TK, it’s time. You can run downstairs and open all your presents. (There, does that feel better?)

By Random

July 20, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000: “trade the Golden Boy to a small market team so he can get out of the spotlight for a while. That just may do him some good.”

The Braves themselves have a couple of small market teams where he could go — Pearl, MS and Richmand, VA.

flange1 —

Thanks for the research and analysis. We’ll see waht Wren does later, I guess.

By richbrave

July 20, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Hey BravesFaninRockies:

Francoeur and Diaz - the dynamic duo of swish. Man, I was so high on both in the spring. Bummer man.

By David O'Brien

July 20, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Ryan Howard is hitting .237 with 131 K’sCarl Jr

Actually .236. Oh, and no need to mention those 29 homers and 87 RBI, I guess. Or the 105 homers and 285 RBI — yes, 105 and 285 — that he amassed over the previoius two seasons.

That .236 average and those strikeouts, that’s what you look at first with Ryan Howard, huh? OK.

By N8

July 20, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

“DOB: Screw the 97 Marlins. That team WASNT better than the Braves! they got screwed in the playoffs by Eric Gregg if i remember right. The Marlins are a sad franchise whos cheap owner dosent deserve the 2 titles he “borrowed””

Well. In game ONE of that series, the Braves made errors in the first inning of that series, that led to runs. I don’t believe those were Eric Gregg’s fault.

As for the horrible strike zone? After nine innings, in a NLCS Game, any MLB team should be able to “adjust” on the fly.

Did that strike zone suck azz? Absolutely. But Gregg was consistently horrible for all 9 innings of that game. Make the adjustment.

“I give all credit to their last title to Jim Leyland….whos a GREAT postseason manager! “

Uhh… In 2003 (when they won their LAST title. Jack McKeon took over in mid-season for Jeff Torborg, and lead them to the WS title. Jim Leyland was a frickin scout for the Cardinals in 2003. So unless he secretly provided scouting reports to the Marlins, I can’t see how he would have been responsible for the Marlins title in 2003.

As for him being a “great” post-season manager?

Prior to the 1997 Marlins, Leyland was 8-12 in post season games (pre-wild card), losing the NLCS three years in a row for the Pirates against the Reds (90), and Braves (91-92).

In 1997 and 2006 with the Marlins and Tigers, Leylands teams went 11-5 and 11-2 on their way to a WS title.

Clearly, when Leyland has the “guns”, he’s capable of being a good manager. But with arguable better (and more experienced teams) from 1990-1992, his teams clearly CHOKED big time.

The 97 team was a mercenary team built to beat the Braves, which they couldn’t do over 162 games, but did in 6 games in the NLCS.

Overall, Leyland has a post-season record of 30 and 19. Pretty damn good, I must admit. But for about a decade, Leyland was clearly known as having his teams NOT win the big one, with a ton of talent. Sound familiar?

What I will grant you, is that if Leyland were the Braves manager from 1991-2005, the Braves would have more than one WS title.

But that being said, the man had NOTHING to do with the 2003 Marlins title.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

richbrave,

I’m with you, man. Thought Frenchy would continue to progress this year. And I always believed Diaz did it with mirrors — how could two guys so undisciplined be so effective for the better part of two seasons?

As Shaun said a few days ago, regression to the mean. If they were playing over their heads earlier, they’ve come back to earth now.

McFann,

I think they’d get a worthwhile return for Ohman, but maybe not anyone who’s ML ready now. HoHo looks like a 23-year-old kid. Unlike Jair, he can’t seem to pitch his way out of trouble, esp. if he’s not sharp early in a game. I think he’ll put it together next season and have a fine year and potentially a fine career.

By brent a.

July 20, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

It’ll be interesting to see if the Braves scoring differential continues to deteriorate as dramatically over the next week as it has the last 2 days.

Perhaps, then, and only then, will everyone accept that this team is just that bad.

But, in the meantime, I’ll still hold out hope until I see the Phillies kick us in the pants next week-end.

Why not? The Olympics don’t start until 08.08.08.

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Where’s Sweet Lou Vales when you need him? From his gold-plated, diamond-encrusted stairmaster in lovely Greenville, SC, I’m sure he could give you all the relevant info on who owned the Marlins and when, how small their payroll was, and how few fans attended their games.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

For what it’s worth, here’s the Zips career projections for Frenchy. According to Dan’s guesstimations, Jeffrey peaked last year. One player the commenters compared him to was Cory Snyder; I remember him — terrific tools, great arm, excellent power and no idea how to apply those skills.

By Glass formerly half empty

July 20, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Hey, dizzy brave has made such a well-reasoned, articulate case for maintaining belief in this team that I vow to be one of it’s most ardent supporters for the rest of this year.

I will now buy tickets to all games. I will order two Frenchy jerseys. Make that three. And Texeira souvenir plates.

And I will wait to see what dizzy brave says next.

By fastasballs

July 20, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Why is there is always some guy who claims he’s a “real” fan & others are not, because they point out obvious flaws or criticize the team.

Virtually no one is on this blog, minus the Mutts’ trolls, that doesn’t love this team. We’ve got old fans, young fanns & a complete mix of personalities to go along with the cast of characters. We all have our views of what needs fixing & how to get there, but who gives a damn? It’s a freaking baseball blog( a damn good one) that’s what takes place on these things. What fun would it be if we all sat around & sang the praises of the team when they are stinking up the joint.

I don’t agree with a lot I read on here, but there is a scroll feature on your mouse & I utilize it, maybe you should as well.

As far as Frenchy goes he’s dug himself a fairly deep hole with his mouth. He’s been treated as a king ever since he’s arrived. He’s also turned down a multi year, multi million dollar contract because he thinks he’s worth much more. He was all ramped up to put up some hug numbers this season & all he’s done is fall on his face & the pressure is getting to him, it has to be.

I think Wren screwed up by the way his demotion was handled. He should still be there, because as a “real” fan you would notice he’s not any better. As a “real” fan you would want what’s best for him & the team, correct?

I hope he gets it together because he was counted on this season. The Braves outfield probably has the lowest slugging percentage in the league.

He’s an absoulte mess right now & probably would be better served to be in the minors right now. Can’t send him back now, Wren buggered that move.

He’s not the only problem right now, far from it, but as I said he’s digging his hole & I’m not referring to the one he digs in the 3rd base side of the box.

Be a “real” fan & look at team with some objectivity from time to time. We all love the Braves, but you don’t need to be a blind loyalist in order to be a “real” fan.

By GotCurry

July 20, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Carl Jr, that was my point exactly. The fans that vote for the all stars only look at the names, and there happens to be a lot of big names at first base.

By THWG

July 20, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

I just got back from Panama City Beach today after being there since last weekend. Great vacation, however I soon realized that Florida did not broadcast the Braves, my assumption being that it is an opposing market (I did get to see a great week of baseball between the Derby, 15-inning affair, Marlins and Rays).

It wasn’t until I was listening to today’s game on 94.9 while driving home that i finally realized my vacation was just as much a week off of the Braves as it was a break from work.

DOB- With all this talk of “the season’s over” and “let’s start thinking about ‘09”, why would re-signing Tex not be considered a long-term investment? If we traded Tex tomorrow, who the heck would hold down the fort at first? The fact is, he is a gold glove first baseman and his bat is only going to get hotter. He will hit well over 100 RBI this year, and someone is going to have to replace Chipper as a heavy switch-hitting bat in the lineup.

Quite honestly, I don’t have enough faith in the farm system right now to trust that we can raise a 1B. Let’s look at who the farm system has brought us in the recent past: Kelly, Jo-Jo, Frenchy, Blanco, etc.

Let’s also take a look at the top performers for the Braves right now: Chipper (a product of the good ol’ early ’90s Braves farm system), JJ (from Detroit), McCann (the exception, not the rule), Tex (from Texas and prior to that, Georgia Tech). Heck, even Lillibridge (who is showing a lot of promise) didn’t come from the poor Braves system. Fact is, we aren’t raising them right down there. We can’t get rid of people who are performing in hopes that we can replace them from within.

One more thing- Everyone seems to be ragging on Tex for his “meaningless” two homers that didn’t change the outcome of the game. My question to everyone is, what do you expect him to do to erase a seven run lead? When your starting pitching already gives you no hope by the fourth inning, what can you really ask of your clean-up hitter besides at least giving the fans a little excitement? The fact of the matter is, you can’t blame your bats for what your arms aren’t doing.

By brent a.

July 20, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know anything about Francoeur’s agent, Molly Fletcher?

Does she represent anyone else, and does anyone know anything about her track record?

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, your 7:33 post is where I read it,I missed the end where it was highlighted as a quote….so eat it garla or garja,whoever.

By java nut

July 20, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL ON AISLE 9…

Must have home series - lost to the worst team in Baseball. Let the sale begin.

This attempt to ease back into relevancy isn’t working. The only way this team has been successful in rebuilding is to trade for prospects, let ‘em play (and lose) young so they get experience, then ride ‘em to victory down the stretch (read several years). But you have to have deep pockets to make that work (keep ‘em when they get good).

The Braves corporate ownership doesn’t care about winning it all - they’re just towing the typical short term corporate profit line. That bottom line doesn’t align with championships.

It saddens my heart to say it, but this team is no longer relevant. Come to think of it, right now the closest Atlanta pro team to relevance is the Hawks - and they’re still a quality big man away from true contention. That’s a scary thought.

BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL ON AISLE 9…

By Blue water

July 20, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

When your best played quits in the 6th inning, you are just one pitiful ball club. Did Chippie give up? Trade him and keep Tex. Why not a new right fielder. Did you see his throw to the plate? Pitiful. They are quitters. Cox even got thrown out because he was embarassed. I must say he did have a reason this time. Pitiful.

By ijonathan

July 20, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies

Great get on that Cory Snyder comparison. Much better than the Brad Komminsk nonesense tossed around here so freely. And the comparison between Snyder and French is scary, from what I remember of Snyder. You could throw him slider after slider off the plate, followed by a letter-high fastball, and he couldn’t touch any of it.

By garla

July 20, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

DOB, appreciate you touching on the question I made earlier concerning the Braves chances of trading Tex then re-signing him. I was in a hurry at that time. I didn’t know my poor English was going to cause you so much grief. Sorry about that. Appreciate your coverage. Your work is almost always right on the money. That’s not always the case in other places. I don’t pay much attention to other rumors until you speak about them.

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

THWG The gist of the trade Tex thing is he has Boras as an agent.That probably means we’d have no home team advantage.It also likely means Boras will drag it out in a torturous,near endless process at the end of which most of us will feel violated.

From reading these blogs it’s apparent there’s an eliment who would enjoy a probe by Mr Boras but count me out.

If Tex has a real desire to stay in Atlanta he can do like Chipper and Smoltz.He just has to be his own man and tell Boras and Wren he would prefer to stay here and won’t be a complete w*******….don’t hold your breath though.

By Wayne in Utah

July 20, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

NEWSFLASH:

Corky Miller is hitting .500 in his “day” dreams.

By DesiBrave

July 20, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Guys, it was never my intention to question anyone’s integrity out there.., and i don’t consider myself better than any of you fans out there…., I was just targeting those bandwagon jumpers who enjoyed watching frenchie specials on Sports South etc and all of a sudden started finding fault with him. How can somebody who was the strongest link (with his league leading RBIS is 2out situation) last year could turn into the weakest link this year? And what if he gets into his form he was the last two years the rest of his life?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

THWG,

Signing Tex would be a long-term investment. But it would also tie up 15-20% or more of the payroll in one player. Meaning the Braves would have to go through every season of Tex’s contract like this one, filling a dozen or so spots on your roster with kids you hope are ready to play or with has-beens/never-will-bes who have to play above their potential for your club to succeed.

To my knowledge, that formula has never worked, as in delivered a World Series title to a club that has too much of its payroll spent on one player.

By Wayne in Utah

July 20, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

I had a load of Cory Snyder Topps Rookie Cards, and the dude fell on his face. Nice young man though, as I remember.

By Kashi

July 20, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

MLB Umpires are like a lose wild horse. I hope today’s home plage umpire Chris Guccione get suspended rest of the season. whoever governs umpires need a kick in his butt. MLB has the worst officals/umpires. DOB would you give us some insight who correct umpires and do they receive warning or possibly lose job for stupidity calls?

I think Braves are done for this year. If we want to rebuilt team for next year then we MUST keep Tex and try to sign him. We need to figure out how much it will cost us to get Nady with long term contract. Please don’t try another rookie or claimed someone on waiver, hoping something miracle would happen with Terry Pendalton’s not effecting hitting instruction year afer year.

This years biggest problem. Can’t hit and relievers can’t stop runs in 7th, 8th, 9th.

By A-ville Ranger

July 20, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

BravefaninRockies,well articulated reasons why it may not be wise to pursue re-signing Tex.

My last post lays out why even if inclined to it might be futile.Even if it was Wrens judgement that 15% of payroll for 6 or 7 years made sense,there’s the matter of Boras.

Unless Tex interceded we’d be just one bidder and not the one with the deepest pockets.I’ll go back to my contention, he’ll likely be elsewhere regardless,why not deal while the team has cards to play ?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 20, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

Here’s a potential “buy” for the Braves: Randy Winn from the Giants. He’s been discussed before, yes, and he should be a decent pickup for the money ($8.25 MM salary next year). His road OPS is .773, better than the overall OPS of Z-Man, Frenchy, Blanco or Diaz. 18/19 in steals. (Career .933 OPS at Turner Field, for what that’s worth.)

I like Brian Giles better, but Paul DePodesta has said Gilly’s not available; the Pads want to keep him so he can show the kids how to play the game (working counts, etc.).

Winn’s a nice, versatile player who could probably be had for not much if the Braves paid his contract.

By SaltyDawg

July 20, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

I sure wish Wren would go ahead and make any trades he is going to make so everyone here can start b!tching about what bad trades we made, how bad the players we got suck, and how we should have never traded (any player’s name here).

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

A-ville, if the Braves keep Tex then they must have someone on the radar they plan to make a pitch for in an winter trade to play 1B next year. (LaRoche, maybe?) Surely they’re not going to give Thorman another shot. The FA market for first basemen is pretty sparse this offseason.

Tyler Flowers is apparently tearing it up at Myrtle Beach, but that’s Class A, folks.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

And by “keep Tex” I mean not trade him and let him walk as a FA, obviously.

By The Goche

July 21, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

i don’t know if anyone has said this,

i would certainly try to see if we can get a good Tex package,

but I would hold on to Ohman, try to resign him, b/c I like him, but if we lose him, I think he’d be Type A, so we could get as much back for Will O. as we get for Tex…

By brent a.

July 21, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

Kashi

While MLB’s umpires are perhaps the most egotistical of any pro sports officials, I would argue that at a minimum, they are significantly better than those of the NBA (is there really any question about that?) and probably better than football, if not the NFL, than at least those in college, especially those of certain conferences, namely the SEC.

By Gosh, By Golly and By Jove

July 21, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

I sure wish Wren would go ahead and make any trades he is going to make so everyone here can start b!tching about what bad trades we made….

Relax SaltyDawg, it’ll happen. If they b!tch about fantasy league, they’ll surely whine about real-world trades.

By Sitting Bull O'Brien

July 21, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Dave, In regards to your 7:40 post I enjoy reading your blogs, but now that the Braves have lost a game that you labeled a MUST game are you now finally going to capitulate on this long lost season.or does another MUST game loom on that endless horizon?? You are actually quite talented in transforming a season that most nationally wrote off weeks ago into something of a mystery reality show Buy or Sell?

By THWG

July 21, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies,

Very good point as to why signing Tex long term isn’t wise. But are you suggesting that whoever DOES sign him will be a team with a Yankees or Red Sox type payroll? Or are you suggesting that it will be a team with a payroll not too different from the Braves, and that such a team will not find success with him as a player?

My other question to you is whether or not we should hope for a 1B solution from within (i.e. Tyler Flowers), or if we need to trade to get one. LIke you previously stated, signing a FA 1B in the offseason sounds about as likely as all four members of The Who getting back together.

By A-ville Ranger

July 21, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

SaltyDawg,From one UGA guy to another what would you care to discuss,sunday’s game perhaps.

By Tractor Pulls at the TED

July 21, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Time to start the tractor pulls at the TED, this season is over, give me $500 on the big John Deere

By The Goche

July 21, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

that way, even if we don’t get a package for Tex and couldn’t resign Ohman, we’d get the picks and have like 5 draft picks in the first 40.

then we could even sign a couple type A free agents, i’m pretty sure we’d only lose our original picks, as in the first team would get our 1st rounder and the second team our second rounder…i may be wrong about that

but if i am right about that, we could sign 2 type A’s and we’d so we’d still end up with 4 picks in the first 40

then again, that could all be bull, but i’m pretty sure you can’t lose picks that you got as compensation already

By N8

July 21, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

THWG

“One more thing- Everyone seems to be ragging on Tex for his “meaningless” two homers that didn’t change the outcome of the game. My question to everyone is, what do you expect him to do to erase a seven run lead?”

No. But I expect a guy that we gave up 5 prospects for, one that is looking forward to making 20+ million dollars annually after this season, and one who tore up NL pitching last August and September, to get big hits when the game is on the line.

Not pile up “numbers” in meaningless games. We got rid of Andruw after last year (by letting him walk), because he wasn’t all that clutch.

Today, Tex had 2 HR, my guess is in the next 1-run loss, he’ll fail miserably when given the opportunity to win the game or come up with a BIG hit.

It’s like a QB throwing for 400 yards and 3 TD in a loss, where their team was down by 21 points in the 1st Quarter. Is it HIS fault that his team sucks and can’t hold a lead? Nope. But when the other team feels comfortable and let’s their guard down a bit (you know….like when an MLB team has a 12-3 lead?), their job is to throw strikes and make the hitters hit the ball out of the yard.

When the chips have been on the table this year, Tex has failed more often than not. Or have you forgotten that for almost three months of the season he had a guy hitting over .400 with an OBP over .500, hitting directly ahead of him? If the dude was worth the coin he’s gonna get paid in the off-season, he’d be leading the league in RBI.

BravesFanIn Rockies

“To my knowledge, that formula has never worked, as in delivered a World Series title to a club that has too much of its payroll spent on one player.”

There is only one team that has made, much less won, the WS with any one player taking up more than 16 percent of it’s total payroll, since 1985, the 2002 Angels (Vladimir Guererro).

Ask the Rangers and Yankees how it’s worked out with Arod? Why do you think the Red Sox let Pedro walk?

Throw in the fact that Chipper, Tex, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Soriano and Hudson take up about 83 million of the Braves 107 million dollar payroll (75 percent on 7 guys - leaving 24 million for the remaining 18 guys on the roster), and you have an even more ridiculous scenario for a team’s money distribution.

In a perfect world, a teams’ injuries are not all happening to the “big guns”. Thus allowing the team to still have it’s “stars” on the field. But when the injuries DO happen to hit that core of players…….you have the 2008 Atlanta Braves. The Braves currently have 15 guys on the 25 man roster that are making 500K or less. When 60 percent of your team makes close to the league minimum, well….it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to conclude that unless those 15 guys are having CAREER years, the odds of you fielding a competitive team are minimal.

Which is why the Marlins, Rays and Twins are pretty impressive this year.

“The FA market for first basemen is pretty sparse this offseason.”

Unless Wren is gonna go against everything that JS stood for as a GM, our 1B next year will NOT come from the free agent market (unless it is re-signing Tex). It’s just not how the Braves “do things”.

JS signed three major (or what I consider to be major), free agents after 1991. Maddux, Galarraga and Weiss.

Everybody else was traded for (and some of the signed to extensions - or re-signed when free agency came up). The Braves simply don’t sign big dollar free agents.

If last off-season is any sign of how Wren will operate, I’ll assume he’s gonna go down that same path. Look at what took place for our CF “gap”. Cameron was available. Lofton was (still is) available. Andruw was available. What did he do? Traded a fine pitching prospect for a guy coming off of major back surgery, while getting the A’s to pay for most of his salary.

I wouldn’t expect anything less for our need at 1B this off-season, unless one is acquired in a deal for Tex.

It’s gonna be interesting, that is for sure. I’m actually more excited for the trade deadline and off-season, than I am for the next batch of games.

How sad is THAT?

By Coach ( Bye Bye Teixeira)

July 21, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur, shades of Joe Charboneau. Molly Fletcher, I sincerely hope you have other clients.

By Mike Lum

July 21, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

well we’re 4-7 against team picked to finish 4th, but now we get 3 games against team picked to finish 5th and we can make up some ground. Wait this can’t be right.

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

N8

About your 10:14 post:

Were you quoting another blogger or research? If it was research then the info site was incorrect.

You were right on about Leyland not being the Marlins mgr during the 2003 WS run.

But then you wrote:

“In 1997 and 2006 with the Marlins and Tigers, Leylands teams went 11-5 and 11-2 on their way to a WS title. Overall, Leyland has a post-season record of 30 and 19. Pretty damn good, I must admit. But for about a decade, Leyland was clearly known as having his teams NOT win the big one, with a ton of talent. Sound familiar?”

Sir, I submit to you (not attcking you, but simply saying) that the Tigers DID NOT win the 2006 WS. The Cardinals beat the Tigers 4-1.

The Tigers went 8-5, not 11-2 in the 2006 postseason.

Leyland career postseason record is 27-22, not 30-19.

Leyland has won one WS title, not two.

All that said, I do agree that he probably could’ve brought home more than one WS if he had managed the Braves instead.

By N8

July 21, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

THWG

“But are you suggesting that whoever DOES sign him will be a team with a Yankees or Red Sox type payroll? Or are you suggesting that it will be a team with a payroll not too different from the Braves, and that such a team will not find success with him as a player?”

I realize that when you posted the above response, that my post adding to the conversation had not yet appeared.

But I think you are missing the point. Tex is gonna do “what he does” for whatever team he signs with. If he signs with the Royals, he’ll probably have reasonably similar numbers to those if he were to sign with the Yankees, Red Sox or even back with the Braves.

It’s what the REST of the players on a roster are capable of doing, with his salary being added into the mix of said teams overall payroll.

There are many fans clamoring for Liberty Media to RAISE PAYROLL….BRING BACK TED…Etc…

I’ve never believed that the highest paid player at each position is the best. He is that highly paid because the market (IE: Supply and Demand) dictated so. Or does anybody really think Hampton is our best pitcher? Or that Chan Ho Park was an “ace” because the Rangers over-paid for him?

You can tell a guy’s “worth”, when a team is re-signing a star player on a year to year basis. Like Bonds in SF, or Jordan before he retired the 2nd time and came back with the Wizards. If teams like the Bulls or Giants were willing to sign those guys to 1-year contracts for the dollars they were getting, that meant that financially (and on the field) it was worth it.

Long-term contracts, very rarely end up looking like bargains at the end of the deal. Maddux’s deal when he signed in Atlanta was WORTH IT. When he re-signed, it was WORTH IT. Chipper has been worth it.

So, to answer your question….I do think that Tex will sign with one of about 6 teams. Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Orioles or Braves. In that order.

I don’t believe that there will be a team, that out of nowhere comes in and offers DOUBLE of the next closest team, like there was with Arod’s 250 million dollar deal with Texas (does anybody actually remember that the Braves had the NEXT highest offer after the Rangers….some 100 million dollars below the total offer?).

The Mariners are NOT gonna just decide to go for him.

Only the teams that can afford to take the “hit” if the deal doesn’t pay out, and (or) move their first basemen already in place and take a hit on that deal, will be players in the Tex bidding war.

My guess is the Yankees. They can afford to sign him and buy out Giambi’s contract and not blink an eye. Especially going into a new stadium. Of course the last team that Arod and Tex were on together didn’t do too much either, did they?

By A-ville Ranger

July 21, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

BravefaninRockies, I’d like to see a first baseman come in a trade.The LA clubs of course have been discussed at length.

I personally think The Angels with Kotchman and a good prospect or two would be nice.

If (huge if) we could work a sign and trade the value to the other team would be higher.

By The Goche

July 21, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

i was right, according to wikipedia:

“A team cannot lose picks it has earned via compensation.”

of course that would depend on ohman being type A…

is that possible? do they rank by position? seems like he should be in the top 20% of relievers…even though middle relievers are at a huge disadvantage, but i guess Mahay wasn’t a Type A last year was he,

so maybe he’d only be a Type B, who knows

By N8

July 21, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

Why Us

Thanks for the correction (it actually makes my point more clear).

It was MY mistake. I was using baseball-reference.com and all I did was look up the “play-offs” in 2006, which had shown the WS being won 4 games to 1. I had forgotten that the Tigers didn’t win that WS. My Bad.

So when I added that WS into his overall post-season record, I gave him credit for the 4 wins and only 1 loss. Should have gone the other way.

Again, thanks for the correction. I could have sworn by all of the Jim Leyland (whom I actually like a lot as a manager), praise around here, that the dude had a “Phil Jackson” like record in the post-season. LOL!

By The Goche

July 21, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

so i realized mahay wasn’t even a type B last year, but looking at last year’s list and the previous year’s list, I have no idea where to guess on Ohman,

but it seems that system is pretty messed up, those rankings are all over the place

it’s a crap shoot, but appearances are a factor, so that should help Ohman.

if he won’t have wins or saves, we can at least keep shuttling him out there.

i would imagine the Braves have a way to get a pretty good guess on where he’ll end up type wise though,

it would be nice if someone figured out exactly how it works and set up a website that keeps a running tally, you could root your players on all year.

man would I waste time on that site.

By Coach ( Bye Bye Teixeira)

July 21, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

I was reading the other blog entitled: Are the Braves done? and I came across this jewel of a response and applauded.

By gayle

July 20, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Done? The Braves have been done for a long time. They have been done since the 8th inning on October 23, 1996.

All you Braves fans know the date - Wohlers to Leyritz. A three-run homer to tie the game and eventually to lose in the 10th.

Since that game, the Braves have not won a World Series game (0-7). Since then, they are 5-9 in post season series. They have not made it out of the LDS since 2001.

How the management of this team has not only held their jobs, but maintained the support of the ownership is really a slap in the face to all the fans.

Today, the Braves were embarrassed by a team that has won only 4 of their last 14 games and 2 of those wins were over the Braves. And remember hearing how this was a “must-win” series?

As long as the fans and the local press coddle this team and expect so little, there will not be any changes. In most other cities, Cox would have been booted out years ago.

Every day that this organization, the press and the fans perpetuate this myth of one more post season run is one less day this team can break down and retool and become a team that not only can make it into the playoffs, but can win once they get there.

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

N8

All is cool. As stated, I wasn’t attacking and certainly wasn’t going to start that post off by using the normal blog established precedent by saying “your and idiot.”

I pretty well agree with the point you made in that post.

Now, about your post made at the same time as my last.

Long-term contracts, very rarely end up looking like bargains at the end of the deal. Maddux’s deal when he signed in Atlanta was WORTH IT. When he re-signed, it was WORTH IT. Chipper has been worth it.

Isn’t that true?! I think at least 90% of the high dollar, long term contracts don’t work out as expected, envisioned or hoped for.

So, to answer your question….I do think that Tex will sign with one of about 6 teams. Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Orioles or Braves. In that order.

Again, I agree, but lately have seen rumors and/or reports that the White Sox might also jump in as they are unhappy with Konerko (another big contract that tanked). The CWS will also be able to & can afford to outbid the Braves. I also saw one rumor about a week ago that the Giants are thinking about jumping in also. I can’t remember where I saw it now & I certainly can’t figure out why the Giants would think Tex could do anything for them.

Of course the last team that Arod and Tex were on together didn’t do too much either, did they?

AMEN

Isn’t that so true? Also note that the NYY haven’t been to the WS since they took on A-Rod. I also don’t think that Tex is the answer to what they’re missing in getting back the WS. I figure if they sign Tex, he’ll put up nice numbers but, as stated, he still isn’t the icing on the cake that they need to get them back.

By bravos2249

July 21, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

The Yankees main problem this year is pitching….which will be it next year too…cause Pettitte signs 1 yr deals.

Also Tex hit 2 homers…so what…his splits show he’s better in day games(why IDK)…If anyone else hits those no one makes a big deal and if Frenchy hit 2 everyone would be crying that he’s back despite hitting under .200

By BA

July 21, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this

Anybody seen the Angels lead in that division? They might not need Teixeira. They might not want to take the chance; it could mess up what must be a pretty good chemistry in their clubhouse.

By gatorhater

July 21, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

No onw wants to run away with the NL east. I know the offense has sucked and the braves could really use a bat if they want to even have a remote chance to make a run. But how long are they gonna continue with Jo Jo Reyes? He has sucked from his first start of last season. There has to be someone in the minors who could record consecutive scoreless innings. Reyes can’t go 2 straight innings without allowing a run. And walks are usually the problem. Throw Strikes…..

By Coach (I'm a halfwit)

July 21, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

If Francoeur were on my little league team, I’d tell his pushy dad to put him on another team. Or I’d just deprive him of ice cream on the team trip to Dairy Queen. I’ve thought of myself as an expert for YEARS.

    boom.

By Tex says it's Business.

July 21, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this

DOB touched on this, but the entire Braves organization has blinders on if they think they can trot out lineups with Prado, Blanco, and Lillebrdige and think they will actually gain ground Melly

Agree with you about Blanco and Lilbridge, but Prado? What’s your beef with Prado?

The braves are 6-5 in Prado’s 11 starts. They’ve scored 90 runs as a team in his starts (8.18 runs/game) and he has hit .311/.373/.422 in those starts.

If anyone on the braves bench deserves more starts, it’s Prado. Give me a break

By Moby Grape

July 21, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

I was reading the other blog entitled: Are the Braves done? and I came across this jewel of a response and applauded.

By gayleCoach

Thats good Coach, getting in touch with your feminine side I see.

By BravesFan79

July 21, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this

“and we wont see Corky Miller except in the extra innings games the rest of the month. There aren’t any day games after a night game the rest of the month”

Well i guess we wont be winning 2 many extra inning games!

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

July 21, 2008 4:07 AM | Link to this

Of the Braves’ past 18 games, 15 were played against teams with losing records. Braves went 7-11 in those games (7-8 against the losing teams).

Braves finish the season with 40 of 64 games against teams that currently have winning records, and they’re put themselves in the position of needing to win close to 2/3 of them to have any hope of a playoff berth.

Conclusion: Frank Wren needs to get out there and sell like Pulski.

By More Bad News

July 21, 2008 4:36 AM | Link to this

And 34 of the last 64 games are road games. Braves currently are 15-32 on the road.

By Bravo Nam

July 21, 2008 5:00 AM | Link to this

A Tirade

If ever there was going to be a time for BC to unleash an impassioned speech on the team, now is the time. It also wouldn’t hurt if he did the same with a lot of the bloggers on this site…no backbone, ready to wave the white flag at any opportunity, bending over backwards to get on Robert’s good side, moaning like all get out…as a loyal Braves follower for a long time, irrespective of where they’re currently at, I’m sticking by them and I hope they don’t throw in the towel on the season just yet.

Nationals

The Braves have a bad habit of playing down to the level of their opponents…but then do curiously well against better sides. Their performance this past weekend isn’t necessarily indicative of the attitude they’ll take this next week.

Former Braves

Obviously Willie and Langers were a bit upset about the Braves letting go of them…they play like champs against the Braves…and then revert to their Braves days against everyone else.

By creedo

July 21, 2008 6:11 AM | Link to this

How about a out of nowhere trade for Matt holiday ?lol. Could you imagine Chipper,Tex and Holiday-that would be fierce-we can’t let the Phillies get him and outclassing us every time.

We need a left fielder so it fits

By kyle

July 21, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren-there is a power hitting left fielder that may be on the block-get it done.

MATT HOLLIDAY WOULD PUT THE BRAVES IN IMMEDIATE CONTENTION!

By bravesws

July 21, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this

Matt Holliday? In your dreams-that is the kind of trade a team that wants to win a championship would make-not the current administration who are perfectly happy with mediocrity.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

July 21, 2008 7:17 AM | Link to this

Attention all blogomites:

If you haven’t heard about HBO’s new miniseries Generation Kill, you are possibly missing one of the great docu-dramas of our time. It airs every Sunday at 9:00.

It’s about a Rolling Stone reporter played by Lee Tergesen (“Beecher” from Oz) who is embedded with the 1st Recon Marines during the American assault on Baghdad in 2003.

Oh, did I mention who has written and produced this little gem? A couple of fellas by the names of Ed Burns and David Simon… Sound familiar?? Think The Wire meets Full Metal Jacket.

Seriously… Don’t walk, run to your On Demand and let the beautiful violence sink in. And if you don’t have On Demand, but you know someone with HBO, reserve a spot on their couch from 8:30 to midnight on July 29th. That’s when HBO is airing a three-episode marathon. You’ll thank me if you do.

By SNIPER-69

July 21, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

D!ck Holliday, I got yesterday’s scores for you if you need them. Unfortunatly the braves got their clocks rung by the mighty Nationals. they lose two of three at home. Meanwhile, the Mets are back in first after splitting a four game series with the Reds who BTW have a pretty good home record. The braves are still sitting in fouth place where I think they like it(I know I do). If this news is bringing you down just wait a bit. DOB will surley cheer you up with a tale of IF’S and Maybe’s scenarios that are sure make you beleive that the braves are just a win away from turning things around……hope that fills you in.

By semiballcoach

July 21, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this

francoeur is the new langerhans—decent hitter for a couple of years and then bat disappears like david copperfield took it

By woodseat

July 21, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Dave,

You’ve got to stop letting some of these guys comments get to you. You’ve transformed over the past couple of months and seem to be way more sarcastic and bitter than the DOB we know and love. Remember, they’re just words/letters on a page. Most are written by some lug who is taking a quick break from his “TPS reports”.

Heck, we don’t know the personalities like you and most here don’t know the game like you. But, you’re one of the few who actually do what a beat writer is suppossed to do. You give us some extra tidbits and you make it interesting with the blog.

Keep up the good work and don’t let a few idiots get you down.

And yes, I’m in the group that says it’s time to do SOMETHING. I don’t care how you want to label it (buyers, sellers, shoppers whatever). It’s just time to make some moves, cause it ain’t working like it is now.

By David O'Brien

July 21, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

Morning from Hartsfield-Jackson Aeroport

CharlieAlphaBravo, couldn’t agree more on Generation Kill. Tremendous show. I asked a week ago if anyone else had watched the first episode; apparently not many here had. It’s incredible. I was up at 2 a.m. last night watching the second episode, even though I knew I had to leave my house by 6:30 to catch this flight. The show’s that good….

Anybody that’s got a flight in the next couple hours out of Atlanta, take a valium before you arrive at the airport if you’re gonna be in the regular security line.

The so-called preferred line was doubled back today, and I couldn’t even see the end of the regular line when I got up near the scanners….

Snipely, no tale of ifs and maybes from me. See, I actually wait until realistic hopes are fading to acknowledge such. Love how someone yesterday was “congratulating” those who waved the white flag in June, as if stating it was already a hopeless case at that point, then having things go that way, was some kind of laudable feat. Please. Get a hobby.

If the Braves had played better since those first-to-wave-the-white-flag types had made their bold projections, would you have told them, hey, better luck next year? Laughable.

Anyway, we’re headed to Florida. Got 64 games to go, and my job actually gets a lot easier soon if the Braves don’t made a highly improbable turnaround. Because at this rate, in a couple weeks we’ll no longer have any Teixeira watch, won’t have to monitor any Tex free-agent bidding war, same thing with Ohman. Won’t have to worry about either of them going in a possible trade after the no-waiver deadline, etc.

Of course, the dog days will be nearly two months long, and the clubhouse isn’t as interesting if there’s nothing on the line, in terms of a postseason to aim for.

I’d guess Braves would need to win minimum four of next six games at Florida and Philly to prevent the trade wheels from turning, if they’re not already.

By SNIPER-69

July 21, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, nothing personal. I’m just giving you grief. I didn’t think the braves were that healthy, talented and deep as many here were predicting all winter/spring. Much that has gone wrong for the braves is what a lot of people here were predicting for the Mets. brave fans are the first to point out flaws and deficiancies(Some imaginary) toward other teams but are totaly blind when it comes to the braves……oh well.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

THWG, A-ville, N8,

Mornin’. Had to crash last night, so wasn’t around to respond.

Yes, if Tex becomes a FA, I see the Braves looking for a trade partner for 1B. Unless Tex has a miraculous change of heart, Tex won’t take a hometown discount. If he would sign for 6/$100, the Braves should do that. But I think the minimum to get his attention is 6/$120 or more.

The Dodgers seem to be the best fit. I actually see an unconventional trade that could even be done before this deadline. The Dodgers need middle IF and for whatever reason aren’t crazy about a couple of their promising young players.

What about Frenchy. Lillibridge and Prado for Matt Kemp and Andy LaRoche (with other smaller pieces if needed for balance)? Yes, the Dodgers would be taking on another undisciplined outfielder, but one who seems to have upside.

Andy LaRoche would head to Richmond until September where he would play 1B (he’s played a little in both the minors and the majors).

It’s a wild and crazy proposal that might just work.

By mitchie-san

July 21, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Well, everyone else has given their opinion on what to do with our beloved Braves. My opinion isnt worth crap, but I would like to see something change. Sigh, I guess it is time to sell. Its a challenge to just get and stay at .500. Do we have to get rid of Tex? No. Plus, if we do trade him, he’s gone forever. Keep him around and you maintain that small possibility he re-signs with us. I also think we have the means to get a power stick in the outfield with out giving away the farm. Not to many to choose from, but a little more pop is possible.As for a starter, that will be more tricky. Not sure how Wren is gonna pull that one off. He’s got a tough job that I dont want. The Denziens will never be happy.

By Dadgum

July 21, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

DOB…..3:10 post rignt on the money. I am not waving any flags. Just watching it unfold. Frankly as I have mentioned numerous times here. The Bravos simply don’t have the pitching to sustain any prolonged win streak or consistency. Weak and injured starters and young guys pitching admirably at times but by baptism of fire. Yes, it may be time to throw in Blazing Saddles for the comic effect.

Rock on……

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Ideally I would like to see the Braves pull off an Oakland A’s type deal—trade Teixeira (and possibly Ohman) without “waving the white flag.” I just don’t know if it’s at all possible.

I would love to see them trade Teixeira and possibley Ohman for a decent, major league ready firstbaseman and a decent, major league ready corner outfielder plus a really good prospect or good player under 24-25.

I just don’t know if and have my doubts that a contender would give up that much for two months of Tex and a veteran reliever. But I think that’s what the Braves should try for at this point. And if they are still 6 games or more back come July 31, they take a lesser deal (keeping in mind they don’t have to trade him for peanuts).

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

DOb

Generation Kill is a great show and follows the book almost verbatim. If you have a chance to read the book do it, very fast read.

As for our Braves, I know that maybe a Rockies miracle could happen but I do not see a 10 game winning streak with our lineup. This team needs some serious overhaul.

We are a bad fundamental team, Chipper said it best- move people over and play for a run here or there.

Our baserunning is horrible—Blanco for all of his speed needs to learn from someone and in the outfield he seems to take bad angles to balls, especially hit in the gaps.

Frenchy will not be in Atlanta long term, as one scout said he is a football player playing baseball, aggressive swing, etc. His stubborness and belief that he should never have been sent down is an example of his spoiled brat attitude.

If TP is the next manager we are in for a long haul, he does not seem to be even a good hitting coach. In the Washington Post Sunday here in VA, their beat writer suggested firing Lenny Harris, Nats hitting coach. After what they did to us in three games, many here would take him.

As for trade rumors, double edge sword, keep Tex get draft picks, Ohman also should be kept and signed, he is more consistent and reliable than Ring and if Gonzalez arm hurts any, Ohman can fill in as closer, I trust him more than Soriano. Also from I gather on the blog he is a good guy in the clubhouse also.

Tex like many have said is just no clutch, I bet Boras does not have his RBI breakdown in clutch games versus blowouts. Maybe Tex does not go to one of the NY teams, and signs for less with us. Boston does not seem to be interested in giving up Youkalis who would be a breath of fresh air and could kick some sense into Frenchy.

As for our bench, many have said it but what does Cox really think? Corky Miller is not a major league player, Norton and Prado are fringe at best, I have never been impressed with Prado. The only one who has really turned it around is Lillibridge, he is showing why he was so highly sought after. In the offseason he could be traded to a team needing a shortstop like Toronto.

Cox said Friday that they trade runors involving Tex and Ohman were not true, does this still hold if we go 2-4 this week?

Thanks for the blog, great stuff

By Mookie

July 21, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Let me see… tickets for Sunday’s game $240, drinks and eats $40, motel and gas $225, yeah thanks for the effort braves!!!You guys don’t even think about how much the average family spends to come and see this type of effort. Shame on you especially the pitchers!!

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Matt Holliday? In your dreams-that is the kind of trade a team that wants to win a championship would make-not the current administration who are perfectly happy with mediocrity.

Holliday would be an improvement for the outfield, but do you have any idea what his career numbers look like away from Coors, how old he is and what he’ll command for his next contract? Why would any team that’s more than say 5-6 games out give up what it would likely take to get Matt Holliday?

By justafan

July 21, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

If Cox said it don’t believe it. He’s full of BS.

By VAROADRUNNER

July 21, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

OK Sniper I have to agree with your post. It seems that these Braves have everyone fooled. It starts with the marketing and PR department. Just like you, it hasn’t been difficult to see that this Braves team is a hoax, a marketing ploy. We have “fill-ins” everywhere and we are a team of rookies or has-beens. Not to mention the legitimate injuries. Smoltz going down,(big loss) and Glavine (not so sure that was as big as we make it- I think he should retire to his glory days in the HOF. He’s been great, but it looks like his time has come)

Chipper and Tex are the only legitimate hitters. Escobar is inexperienced and it shows. Another great talent for the future, just not a championship caliber SS at this point inhis career. We have an outfielder playing second base like an outfielder. (Too many key errors)

The outfield is horrendous.

There’s always next year, but unless Wren wakes up and smells teh coffee, next eyar will be the same as this year.

I love em, but I think the Braves chances are slim for the next few years. AND I really feel that to win, we need a new coaching staff and a new Manager. Like Glavine, Bobby has been great with his Cy Young pitchers, but he is not managing now. More of a figurehead.

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Mookie, I feel so sorry for you having to watch a team play bad, spending $505 on entertainment. You poor guy.

By Elmer

July 21, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Trading Tex would be like trading McGriff, but in reverse. Where is the offense without Tex? Where is the future?

By McFann Ô

July 21, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies—

Yeah, I’m sure the Braves could get something OK for Ohman—maybe for Ho-Ho, too, if some team is building for the future. But I wouldn’t like to see Ohman go…but that also depends on what the Braves would get for him.

What are the Pirates looking for? What would it take to get Nady?

By DesiBrave

July 21, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

I have skimmed through the Rosters of all the teams in MLB and the only potential destinations for Teix are LA Dodgers and LA Angels.

I have a feeling that Dodgers are the ones that need the power bat like Teix in order to stay in contention.

Either he will be a dodger or a brave for the rest of the season…..

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Elmer, the offense is in the money the Braves save by trading Tex, the players they possibly get for Tex, all the players that will be in their prime around the same time as the players players they could get for Tex. The Braves future is actually very bright. They are a lot more loaded with young players than many realize.

By Mother Teresa

July 21, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

dave,I really don’t think(am not sure) that people who didn’t think this team was that good in June really wanted it to unfold like it has.I think what happens on blogs like this are that people who are not REALLY REALLY optimistic tend to be labeled very negatively and then human nature being what it is they want to be vindicated after being SOMEWHAT attacked for opionions for months. What do you think would happen if a turn around ensued?/ Don’t you think that many—probably not you—but many others would be here with the “What do you think of Frenchy now?? Still wish we would have traded Tex?? Cox not doing such a bad job is he?” I guess I’ve never been about I told you so. With me more satisfaction derived from not saying a word and just having person think I will bring it up about how wrong they were, but then I never do. I don’t think your bloggers take that approach.

By Lew

July 21, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Mookie-We just went to the Braves/Blue Jays series in Toronto. Spent a lot more than you did for a home town game. Got to see Jair Jurrjens throw one of the best games I’ve ever seen pitched and then saw the Braves lose two in horrendous fashion. Our seats for two games cost more for the two of us than your entire day did.

Dude, if you go to a game, there’s always the chance you’ll see your team lose (I saw the Braves blow a 10 run lead in Montreal with Maddux pitching). If you can’t handle that, then maybe you’re not the baseball fan you think you are and maybe you should do something else for entertainment. Yes, we would all like our team to win every game we attend, but it ain’t gonna happen and you just have to enjoy the day nonetheless. Losing is part of the game. Handle it.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

McFann,

I have no idea what the Pirates will accept for Nady. The latest I saw said they want two prime prospects — say, Schaefer and Morton-type players or even better. If Nady were all the team needed to make the postseason I’d pull the trigger on that deal. But I’m not sure that’s enough to right the ship, and it’s a lot to give up if doing so means you might finish second. I like Bay better but the price for him is probably even higher.

By Elmer

July 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

We had a young prospect—-Salty.So if we trade Tex, we get another prospect. I want to see us keep a big bat!

By Lew

July 21, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Elmer-Where is the offense WITH Tex?

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Elmer, Tex is likely gone anyway. The best thing to do is for the Braves to set themselves up so that they have quality bats at every position next season or 2010-2014, when they’ll be loaded with players in their primes or talented players just entering the big leagues (Heyward).

It does no good for them to use up all their money on Tex and go without other needs when all their young players are in their primes and they are ready to make a run.

And it does no good to trade Tex for a veteran big bat who is likely going to be too expensive relative to his production when all the young players are in their primes.

By McFann Ô

July 21, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies—

I like Bay better, too, but since the price for him would be so high, I’d rather get Nady if they were going to get anybody. But like you said, it’s a lot to give up for a guy that might help us finish second.

If getting Nady meant giving up both Schaefer and Morton, then forget it. One of them, maybe, but definitely not both.

Nady’s for sure not the only thing this team needs, but a good bat in the outfield would really help. I think the Braves’ outfield is their weakest link. (Weaker than backup catcher because the outfield is out there everyday, whereas Corky plays about twice a month.)

By McFann Ô

July 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Lew Yes, we would all like our team to win every game we attend, but it ain’t gonna happen and you just have to enjoy the day nonetheless.

The Braves used to lose whenever we went to a game. But we still had fun.

Besides, good things come to those who wait, as they say. The Braves are 7-0 in the last seven regular season games we’ve gone to, dating back to 2005!

By Lee in S GA

July 21, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Suppose it would have not made a significant difference but I was surprised to see Miller the starting catcher yesterday because it was SUCH an important game. Also McCann had a little break becasue of the recent days off due to the all-star game. Heck even the Nats appeare to be loaded with catchers and we are stuck with Corky as a back-up…Go figure.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I now agree with you Shaun. Tex must go, but, if that is the case, I would do anything to part ways with JF also. There is no way in hell we should keep him. Cant expect to win in 2009 if he is around. But it is clear to me, he is not going anywhere………he is still hitting 5th half our games, that means they still have faith on him. Its amazing how the Braves just get attached to a guy and act as if faith will solves the problems.

I once wrote and I still think the same way. If JF just would have kept up with his career average numbers………Braves would have been in 1st place all year. He has been THE DIFFERENCE Not TEX, not SP, not relievers, not any other OF………but JF. His underachieving has been soooooooooooo big, I think its impact is as big as having lost Smoltz (not suggesting his presence can compare to that of Smoltz……..But I mean his numbers.)

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

McFann Ô, I don’t even know if I’d give up either Morton or Schafer for Nady at this point, considering where they are in the standings…and I certainly agree with you about giving up both. I don’t think there is any way Wren would give up both for Nady.

That said, if the Braves could get Nady for a couple of “second-tier” prospects, I would do it. He’d be a nice stop-gap until someone like Heyward is ready and could be at least a very good backup if he is here long-term.

By Lee in S GA

July 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

McFann The Braves are 7-0 in the last seven regular season games we’ve gone to, dating back to 2005!

You think you and your family can start attending a few more games each season.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

But once TEX is gone…….how should Braves fill that spot?

I just cant believe that in 2 months they were not able to get some real help for the OF……..

Im kind of worried, since in the last 2 years the best they have done to get OF has been HARRIS, DIAZ, NORTON and KOTSAY.

That right there kind of tells you they really waiting for their kids to develop, and we all know that is still far from happening……..look at JF. Blanco, Anderson, even BJ is not a force (not that he should be at his age). We need at least one player in his prime. But not Diaz or DL material because is cheaper.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure Wren would give up Schafer or Morton for Nady either, but that’s the sort of prospects the Pirates say they want. Which means they may not be able to move Nady, or they’ll have to lower their expectations.

I don’t think Nady’s enough to get this team to the postseason. The Braves need two corner OF, not one.

By McFann :Ô:

July 21, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Shaun I don’t think there is any way Wren would give up both for Nady.

I don’t know, Wren hasn’t appeared to be too bright lately…

If they could get Nady for “second-tier” prospects? That would be great!

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Shaun and Mc

How about JF and Morton for Nady???

or JF and JoJo???

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Doc,

I’d do that deal, but then again I’m not a big league GM.

By Elmer

July 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

We are becoming like the Pirates who gave up Aramis Ramirez for peanuts.

By McFann :Ô:

July 21, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Doc H.—

If the Braves could give the Pirates Francoeur and Ho-Ho for Nady, then they better get moving!

But, I don’t think the Pirates would do it.

By McFann :Ô:

July 21, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Lee in S GA—

I wish! We’ll be there on August 13 for the Braves-Cubs game!

(After we bought the tickets, we found out it’s Chipper Jones T-shirt night. Maybe we’ll get there in time for that…; > )

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Elmer

You think Nady is some peanut bag?

Youll have to excuse me but JF is no A. Ramirez.

And Morton and JoJo……..well, they are great young arms, but they still have tons of things to prove………..just like James, Kyle, etc……….tons of talent…….remember.

Id say we fill the gap with Nady. We can always get another arm……….we have great young OF to get a great arm if needed.

By Braves20

July 21, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

This weekend’s series against arguably the weakest team in the NL who were minus their starting 1b, 3b and cf ended the buyer/seller debate.

The question now is do we as some have suggested build for next next year or beyond? Am afraid, the front office might be in a “let’s send Bobby out with a bang” mentality instead of a more prudent approach of gathering near ready prospects that can help us at 1b, 3b and one or two outfield spots in the years ahead - not to mention 3, 4 and 5 in the rotation.

By Lew

July 21, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

It’s high time y’all quit this emotional reaction thing and do some research. Are y’all serious about giving Francoeur and Reyes for Nady? If so, you’re nuts, know damn little about baseball in this day and age and basically have lost all sense of reality and no longer have any credibility whatsoever.

Stop for a second and do some comparison before y’all go running off like headless chickens, barking at the moon (how’s THAT for a mixed metaphor?).

Nady is 29 years old. Before this season, his career highs for HR was 20 (once) and for RBIs 72 (also once). His highest OBP is .337 and he has never hit higher than .280 (once yet again). His career totals are 74 HR and 282RBI. This is NOT an elite player, no matter how good he’s been for 84 games this season (not to mention on a club with zero expectations-either for him OR the team). Until this half season, he was looked at as what he still is-a fourth outfielder.

Francoeur, on the other hand, is only 24, has career totals of 71HR and 297 RBI, in HALF the time it’s taken Nady to post equal or lesser numbers. Yes, he’s had a quite sub par season, nowhere near approaching expectations, but still has two 100 RBI seasons under his belt in two full years (and he ain’t out of the running for another this year, no matter how unlikely y’all think it will be). Not to mention that he’s under club contractual control for three more years at ridiculously low salaries (Y’all think he’ll get a huge arbitration jump with this year’s figures?).

Add to this a pitcher who though erratic and inconsistent, is only 23, has pitched lights out half the time and one wonders exactly why you would trade them for some who, to this point, has been a fourth outfielder.

Y”all really need to get a grip. Besides, Nady won’t answer our problems this season any more than Tex did in 07.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

What about tonight games?

Id say we need Muts to win……….

At this moment in time……….we can say if we can beat one of those teams and pick up ground later……..is the muts……….not the phillies………so we want them in 1st place………not the phillies.

What do you think?

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

McFann

Did you read VAROADRUNNER’s 9:04? I figure you didn’t see this.

Chipper and Tex are the only legitimate hitters.

Thought maybe you might be all over that.

I’m in agreement with some of what he said but certainly not that. Mac is definately a major league quality hitter IMO.

By Hammy the Brave

July 21, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, Don’t know if this is a question for you, or more for Carroll Rogers(if she “specialzes” in minor league questions)? Have you heard from FW if there are any “under the radar” type trades(not involving Tex/Ohman), he is considering?

I am wondering if he could trade with another team for players they might be down on, who would fill an area of need for the Bravos. On example would be the Pirates’ Tom Gorzelanny(L starter) and Ronny Paulino(backup catcher)- both are at AAA for the Pirates now. This way the Braves wouldn’t enter such a “heated fray” in the bidding for their 2 stud OFer’s :Bay and Nady.

Also, why couldn’t FW start a process of trading from minor league strength(Righty pitching, middle infield?) to address areas I see as weaknesses in our minors(OF power-especially righty, 1B and 3B power, lefty starters)? These weaknesses are very evident at the AA and AAA levels, so we need to get players that are ready for those levels, at least. Not until we replenish the position player prospects at these positions in AA/AAA(or players with ML experience) will the Bravos regain their ability to compete, deep into the playoffs.

Thanks for your time,

  Hammy the Brave

By London Correspondent

July 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

$505 to watch a game! Sheesh.

I used to pay $12 for the best seat in the house (top deck, behind home plate). £3.50 for MARTA. £8 for pizza and a coke.

If your economy wasn’t so badly tanked, I’d be tempted to move back over for that!

By westy12

July 21, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

It really can’t be overstated what a big Screw Up it was to recall Frenchy after 3 days in the minors.

3 days. Not enough time for anyone to even begin to miss him. For fans to give him a pass after a couple 0-fors. For the “here we go again” buzz of the crowd to subside after each strikeout, and now each error. For anyone to forget the very public, very immature temper tantrum he threw after his demotion. For Frenchy to experience enough success and rebuild his confidence to the point of being able to deal with all of the above.

So what do you do now? Send him down again? Risk a more severe meltdown, and shatter his apparently fragile ego? Further destroy his confidence, ensuring that he’ll be bitter and worthless for the rest of this season, and maybe beyond? Or do you let him continue to embarrass himself on the big stage and hinder the Braves chances at actually winning games?

I don’t envy the dilemma that Cox and Wren face with Frenchy. There’s no good answer at this point, but they’ve got no one but themselves to blame. For a manager known for being stubbornly patient to a fault, Cox sure abandoned the Frenchy gameplan in a hurry. And I’m not buying that Jones, Perry, or Anderson didn’t offer a better short term solution.

There was just too much at stake for Frenchy if he came back and failed again. Now the Braves are stuck in a no-win situation. Let’s hope management handles the Tex/Ohman trades with a bit more competence.

By Marc

July 21, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think we’re all tired of analyzing this mess. We’ll just have to sit back and see how this plays out over the next 13 games. Over those games, the Braves play four teams who have a combined record of 217-178: Marlins (52-46), Phillies (53-46), Cardinals (57-43), Brewers (55-43).

One way or the other, this thing will be decided soon.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Braves20

Bobby doesnt needs any help to get out with a bang……… his ejections totals speak volumes………LOL.

Lew

JF could be 19, 24………or whatever age you want…….. please just try to remember how bad he has looked at the plate…………over and over again……….He learned too much from AJ…….. is like a clone………… the approach………swing at everything and go for the fence……….specially if it is down and away and in the dirt.

Come on…………we are stuck with JF……..I lke the guy, but he just wont get any better………the league already has his number, and it will be hard to get out of it………just ask AJ. On the other hand, Nady is not elite, thats right………but he is a solid OF, with lots more plate discipline, a great addition to the clubhouse, and he is closer to what the Braves expected of JF in the first place. He is also a good OF. You will that position and give up a young pitcher…….then you have young OFs to spare, since you have filled RF with a good guy………

And if James is as good as most of you guys insist he is……….we have 1 starter to spare for next year …………

What about trading JF and Chuck James for Nady or J. Bay?

By David O'Brien

July 21, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Just got in my hotel here in hot, sunny Fla.

Gimme a minute and I’ll get going on a new blog.

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal has a Braves -Angels so called blockbuster

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8363904/

But he also admits this probably will not happen

Also Nady is being discussed by the Braves according to Pirates beat writer http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08203/898354-63.stm

My take is why not save the money and make a run at Pat Burrell in the off season—weaken the Philles and replace Tex’s bat—I think we will keep Tex and take the picks

By David O'Brien

July 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, Phillies-Mets are idle today before starting their series.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Strange………HGH scandal in spring and the very next season maybe not a single player will hit 50HR………1 at the most. Plus none in AL……….they might not even hit 40 HR in the AL………..Does HGH has anything to do with that?

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

More on HGH:

When was the last time there were so many pitchers with sub3.00 ERA ????? there is way to many this year……. Coincidence? Go check last few years……… there was only 1-2 per league at the end of the year. This year…………..not anywhere near……..I have not checked………..but it looks as if runs per game are down in a significant way……. Anybody has that number???

By Lew

July 21, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Doc-You’re wrong about Francoeur’s future. The kid has, in essence, a 55 game slump (he was hitting .274 on May 16). You’re willing to throw someone under the tank treads because of a slump lasting a bit more than a quarter of a season? Dude, Surely you’re not serious.

Chipper batted .240 something a couple years ago. He had a bad year and everyone thought he was washed up and would never play a decent number of games again because of injuries. How, exactly, has that gone? Damn near every MLB player at one time or another (Yes, Nolie, I realize Musial was almost Godlike) has hit through hard times. In other words-it happens.

Yes, Frenchy has looked lost at times this season. Yes, he may finish the season with sub par numbers, never regaining his stroke. It is a possibility.

However, given that he hit over .300 his first season, knocked in over 100 RBI the next two-even going to right to increase his OBP last season, I’m willing to believe that the Francoeur of the last 55 games is the abberation, NOT the kid who was devastating with runners on and two out. The guy is in a slump-NOT a career decline-Not to mention he’s been putting a much better swing on the ball in recent days-making good, solid contact. I think he’s coming out of it.

I swear y’all have Fantasy Baseball mentalities-if a player is slow, dump his @$$ and get someone else-even I dumped Frenchy on my fantasy team. However, in REAL baseball, this just isn’t done. For one thing, it’s not easy to trade players and it isn’t all that smart to give up on someone you’ve seen succeed more times than not. Not to mention, y’all are indulging in the Blog Time Honored practice of “Let’s trade all these players we don’t like, aren’t performing to our expectations, or we just want gone for someone who we like better. I seem to remember quite a few proposed Thorman and Corky Miller for Tim Lincecum proposals, too. Like I said. Reality check time. Do y’all think deals like this actually happen all that often-dump the bad ones and get good ones in return? Dream on.

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DOB

Question for you.

Have seen many refer to Cot’s site as a good source about contracts & free agents. I’ve started referring to it for info but just saw this.

According to Cot’s Braves page Sori is signed for 2009 at 6.1M.

However the Free Agent page states that he is a free agent after this year, 2008.

Do the Braves somehow have a way out of the contract if they want to let him go since Sori seems to be injury prone?

I was under the impression that MLB contracts were all guaranteed, but now I have to wonder after reading this. Cot’s says it’s the clearing house for MLB contracts so the info has to be correct, right?

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

My bad DOB……….I read next game for the mets ………didnt check on date……….sorry.

But that doesnt changes the thinking…………Think we want the muts to win 2/3

Kevin

I dont like your Burrell idea………. he is injured……..cant run well……….we dont need any help to fill up the DL. Lets go for somebody that is healthy.

By jim

July 21, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Possible starting lineup in 2011 —

C. McCann 1B. Freeman 2B. KJ SS. Escobar 3B. Gilmore OF. Heyward OF. Blanco OF. Shaffer

possible others — Prado, JF, G. Hernandez, Flowers, Lillibridge, Chipper?

Pitchers — JJJ, Morton, Jo Jo, Hanson, Locke, Boyer, Acosta, …(Hudson?)

What Wren needs to do now is to build upon this foundation and make upgrades where necessary, particularly in OF and pitching. Deals should build for 2011 — when the next Brave team is ready to begin to compete.

By Interested Observer

July 21, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal is nuts. Why would the Braves trade Tex AND Ohman for just Casey Kotchman? I like Kotchman as part of a package but it would take a lot more than that to make it worthwhile on the Braves side.

By Braves20

July 21, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Doc H. - Normally I would agree with your ejection comment. Yesterday’s was probably the most justified of his career.

Carlyle did nothing to show up that hot head behind the plate. Cox had every right to get in his face as he did on a world class level. LOL

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

McFann :Ô:, Wren hasn’t appeared too bright lately? What questionable moves has he made? Maybe there are some, I’m sure there are, but I just can’t think of any that are outrageously worse than most other GMs, even good ones.

By J.D. Phillips

July 21, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal is nuts

He also predicted the Braves to go to the W.S. this year. More evidence to support this.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Lew

Please dont put Chipper and JF in any comparison statement……..just doesnt looks good. ;-)

Second…….. his slump has not been 55 games…….. that is not what this is about………..it is not a slump……….is not like his hips are wide open or that his bat is late to the plate………….it is all wrong……….man………he has hit something like 5 gapers all season…………if not less……….even when he gets a hit………..he looks lost, like if he was lucky.

Dont get me wrong……….I like JF. Its not like KJ…………i dislike him and Cox and Corky and Gotay………but not JF………… But he has gone into a zone that only the great can come out of……….Id say right now, he has to reinvent himself…………even a position player could strike him out, and im not joking………you just dont have to throw a strike………he would “throw it for you” if you know what I mean.

There is no example to this situation as good as AJ………and look at him, we all know he will stay bad forever…….I bet he retires in less than 3 years. He is done and he will say he is injured or something.

If JF is not to be gone…………then TP must………..those 2 cant be in the same team……….or JF will be the next AJ.

By Lew

July 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Doc-Maybe you could look at this from the rear, too. You’re willing to dump Frenchy for a half season’s underperformance (based on 4 seasons) and willing to trade for Nady for overperforming half of a season (based on 7 seasons). Doesn’t this seem to be half @$$ed logic? AND you want to ADD another player? Whatever.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

jim

If KJ and his circus “glove act” is still around by 2011, that means we wont get to the playoffs in a long time.

Cant have a guy at 2B that plays so poorly his position and expect to be winners………. Im sure (100%) that more than 75% of braves fans grow a white hair everytime a ball is hit toward KJ, specially if someone is on base or if the game is on the line.

Just think about it……..picture this……… AJC.COM headline on October the 26th 2011………KJ drops popup in the bottom of the 11th, braves lose WS by 1 run to the Angels.

I would commit suicide !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! guaranteed !!!!!!!!!

By chuckw/deadjournalist

July 21, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Since this blog is almost done, here’s a purely speculative trade idea:

Mark Texeria and a Will Ohman (and maybe a fringe player/mid-level prospect) for Prince Fielder.

Here’s my rational: For the Brewers 1) The Brewers want to win now. 2) As good as Fielder is, Texeria is better. Especially defensively. And that might be the difference between the playoffs. 3) Fielder was unhappy with the Brewers when they didn’t sign him long-term. 4) Another solid reliever is never a bad thing. 5) The Brewers know how to draft well, and Tex and Ohman would add 3 or 4 high draft picks to the ones they will already get with Sheets and Sabathia level. 6) The Brewers have a decent prospect in Brad Nelson at AAA who can play first next year.

For the Braves: 1) They’d have production at first for at least another year, if not two with Fielder. While he is only serviceable defensively, he has power equal to (or more than) Texeria. 2) The Braves can still try to win now AND build toward a run next year with the money available from the expiring contacts of Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz. 3) Arbitration for Fielder will be less than re-signing Texeria. 4) Since the Braves typically draft high school pitching, vs college position players, the picks are marginally less attractive.

Fell free to knock holes in this, but there just doesn’t seem to be more than two or three teams that might be interested in Texeria. So I decided to dig up an less obvious option.

By TNJeff

July 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Wow - I wonder how many of those in the Pre-Nats series poll who voted that the Braves would sweep are now voting that the Braves will get swept by the Marlins?

I’m ever the optimist - think we’ll win 1 in preparation for being swept by the Phillies.

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Doc Holiday

fair enough, but he does produce better than anything we have, is he a Boras agent also? I do not know

Buster Olney today on his blog places the O’s as the leading destination next year for tex—if that does happen he really is about the money

By Lew

July 21, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Doc-Dude, you’re still wrong. Andruw was a twelve year veteran who had slumped for two years and was due for Free Agency and a raise to $18 million a year, who was becoming injured more frequently. Francoeur is a player who has slumped for (maximum) a half season and who is making about $450,000 and will not be a free agent for another three years. Andruw was also not amenable to coaching, while there have been no such reports about Frenchy. Andruw was an old 30 and Frenchy is barely 24. Apples and oranges.

Besides-Francoeur aside. Why in the world do you think Nady is A. worth what you want to pay and B. The answer to our prayers? Believe me-Nady is nothing but a fourth outfielder. He is not worth two starting players aged 24 and under. The guy is 29. He has not distinguished himself until this, his 7th season and THAT in a small market with absolutely no pressure on either him or his team to produce a damn thing. He has a career OBP of about .335-certainly nothing to write home about and hardly any power. If the Yankees want to trade a package like that for him, then more power to them. When exactly, was the last time they used any sense to make a deal?

I wouldn’t mind having Nady for the balance of the season, but sure as hell not at THAT price. He’s worth a couple B prospects and nothing more.

By Serge

July 21, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

The Braves didnt recall Frenchie because their of sucked. Brandon Jones showed in limited time he deserves to be in Atlanta

No the Braves recalled Frenchie because he whined to the media. They cant have the golden boy complaining and ruining any chance of a long term contract

It was handled poorly by Wren and it will come back to haunt us.

By McFann :Ô:

July 21, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Why Us—

He said WHAT?? No, I didn’t read Mr. Varoadrunner’s post. Ha ha! What a dumb thing to say! McCann’s been way better than Tex this year! Sheesh! Roadrunner, you gotta watch more games, man!

What questionable moves has he made?

Well, by far the dumbest was signing Tavarez. What was that for? I mean, the guy’s looked OK since his debut with the Braves, but he hasn’t been anything special. (And Wren’s handling of you-know-what wasn’t exactly great, either.)

He hasn’t been horrid, but he needs to get going on something (and maybe he is, we don’t know).

By sixfourthree

July 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, Generation Kill is next level. I may even like it better than Band of Brothers, but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve seen a few more episodes. The first two has been outstanding and the characters are unique, interesting, and quite entertaining to say the least. BTW, what’s your favorite war movie? Mine is Platoon…

By Lew

July 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Y’all-The Brewers are not going to trade Prince Fielder.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Lew

Nady has a .298 BA in his last 944 AB thats since being traded to the pirates in 2006. Thats about 2 complete seasons………..he has 151 RBI in that span……….that is like 75 RBI per year………but thats playing for the pirates………no protection, nobody on base, etc

He does have a bad BB/K ratio………Ill give that one to you.

He has 10 assists and only 2 errors this year. So………..he plays good with the glove on. Only 1 error in 109 games the previous year…………

He is not an elite player……….but he is doing much better than JF.

Im not saying that this move is a must………..but it is way better than having JF…………lets say we stay with JF………Do you see him getting out of his slump in the near future? I dont……….I picture him hitting below .220 this year………And pressure will be right there from day one next year……….so if he is around .260 by the time april 2009 ends…………it will be dejavu

By monty

July 21, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

What’s in it for Tex to stay in Atlanta and play for less money? Is he that friendly with Chipper? Does he really believe next year the Braves will be vastly improved and likely go to the series? DOes he stay because he likes Bobby Cox who most everyone on this blog thinks couldn’t manage to get himself out of a wet paper sack? Everyone’s assuming there is some hidden underlying motivation for a man to want to for-go millions of dollars. Just alot of wishful thinking to me!

By Greg O.

July 21, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

KC, you couldn’t be more wrong about Tex going to Baltimore being all about the money. He was born and raised in the Baltimore area. He’d be going home. Money can’t buy that.

By Random

July 21, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Kevin C: “Buster Olney today on his blog places the O’s as the leading destination next year for tex—if that does happen he really is about the money”

How so?!?!?

Tex was born in Annapolis, MD; grew up in Severna Park, MD: and went to High School in Baltimore, MD.

The Orioles ar his hometown team much more so than either the Rangers or the Braves.

Sheeeeeeesh!!! Do you even have half a clue?

By DesiBrave

July 21, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, Wish you all the good luck in FL.. Wherever you go we bloggers are just a keystroke distance away. We are like that network in Verizon advertisement :) Keep up the good work !!

By sixfourthree

July 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

“Police those muuusssstaches! You’re startin’ to look like a bunch of Elvis’!”

By ncscoots

July 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I get it now…Doc Holliday….is really just….Overlord in….disguise. The KJ stuff is a dead giveaway.

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

McFann :Ô:, from Mark Bowman’s story about Tavarez’s signing:

“The Braves will pay Tavarez the prorated portion of Major League Baseball’s minimum salary of $394,000. The Red Sox are still paying the reliever’s $3.85 million salary for this season.”

Where was the risk?

If Tavarez keeps pitching OK, that $394,000 will be a steal.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

*sixfourthree *

What is this Generation Kill…………Im a Band of Brothers #1 fan. Could you give some details………appreciate it.

Lew I agree, Nady is not worth A players, he is not elite as you posted………..but…………. in which book is JF an A type player? not mine………he is fighting to get back to B. JoJo and Morton are great young players………but they are only A type young players in our system………..because right now we sokkkk…….Do you think JoJo or Morton will be like Volquez and Lincecum and Cain in a near future? I dont think so. It could be, but what are the chances? its not like 90% chance……….60% at best Id say.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I’m with Doc. Frenchy has been playing with house money since 2006. He was called up before he was ready and got incredibly lucky. He showed some progress last season but it hasn’t been sustained. You had to wonder how a player so undisciplined could continue to produce for a long period of time, and guess what — the opposition has figured him out.

His OPS has dropped every month this season. He was pretty solid for those two games in March (LOL). I think that the only way he becomes a productive ML hitter and not the worst offensive OF in baseball is with a change of scenery. Perhaps with another organization he’ll address his weaknesses. Perhaps another organization will give him significant timein the minors, or hit him in 8-hole where he can’t destroy an offense. Otherwise, as I suggested last night, he’s the next Cory Snyder. A player with awesome tools who has no idea how to use them.

My fearless prediction is — the Atlanta Braves will not see the postseason so long as Jeff Francouer is an everday player with the club.

By Greg O.

July 21, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

i obviously messed up the name on my last post. that was directed at Kevin C

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Random

yes I have a clue—I know he is from the region, Tex talks about winning and would go to that mess? Please give me a break, if it was about the money he would have taken Texas offer last year—he will not get that money now

Let him go then, he is not clutch, he hits homers when the games are over one way or the other and he not a top ten 1st baseman—defensevily maybe but production wise, no. If he is so great, wonder why Boston would rather keep a gamer like Youkalis than trade for Tex?

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Buster Olney today on his blog places the O’s as the leading destination next year for tex—if that does happen he really is about the money

Kevin C., I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it: If I’m playing pro baseball, I’m traveling for most of the year anyway and someone offers me significantly more money than other teams, I’m following the money. My guess is most of us would follow the money.

The fact that Tex grew up in Maryland would seem to make it a no-brainer if the O’s offer him more money than every other team.

This is what I don’t get about the criticism of pro athletes. You seriously wouldn’t do the same? Because I know I would.

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, the Braves won’t make the post-season with Francoeur as an everyday player?

I’m sure teams have made the post-season easily with regular corner outfielders worse than Jeff Francoeur is likely to be. And I happen to think Francoeur is overrated and will likely never be a superstar. But I think the Braves could make the post season every easily within the next 2-4 years with Francoeur.

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Kevin C

About your 1:13.

If you’re referring to Nady, then it appears that Borass is his agent. At least according to Cot’s, which I don’t know if it’s reliable, see my earlier question for DOB about their site.

As for Tex, Baltimore is his home as many have already posted & I’m sure he would love to go there to play. Many rumors have said that Angelos (spelling?) is ready to bid big to get him home.

However, IMO, after reading many of his comments the past month or so he is going to the highest bidder, wherever that may be. Can’t overlook the comment about his “agent” will handle all negotiations & make the decision. All decisions by Borass are based solely on $ when he decides. In the few case where Borass players took less it was the player’s final decision, not his. I’m sure to Borass’s chagrin. Ya think!

By sixfourthree

July 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Doc, Generation Kill is a new HBO series about the first 40 days of the Iraq war as experiences by the First Reconnaissance Battalion of the US Marines. It’s only a seven part mini-series…and it’s outstanding.

By Shaun

July 21, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Let him go then, he is not clutch, he hits homers when the games are over one way or the other and he not a top ten 1st baseman—defensevily maybe but production wise, no. If he is so great, wonder why Boston would rather keep a gamer like Youkalis than trade for Tex?

Kevin, why would they trade a player who is producing fine and who is cheaper for a player who is going to be a free agent in two months?

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I’ll stick by my prediction because I think the 2008 Francouer is the real one. And so long as he’s with the Braves, the team is not going to find a CF and a LF who can compensate for his substandard production.

And Lew, I’ll also take issue if you want to compare Chipper with Francouer. Chipper’s minor league numbers through two full seasons: .317/.376/.498.

Frenchy’s through most of four minor league seasons: .285/.328/.480.

There was every indication Chipper was going to be a very special player. Frenchy projected to possibly be a solid major leaguer, nothing more.

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Also for all those who want to criticize my opinion on Tex

can anyone of you explain why he does not own a house in his hometown during the off-season?

By Random

July 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: “I get it now…Doc Holliday….is really just….Overlord in….disguise. The KJ stuff is a dead giveaway.”

Well, yeah — duh.

He was quite open about the name change for about a week or so last month (23-26). **Like here, for example.

Btw … what’s with … all the … ellipses? You look like you’re constantly out of breath, like the black kid on Malcolm in the Middle. You okay, sport?

By McFann :Ô:

July 21, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun—

A steal…Maybe so, but I don’t really like the guy. Wasn’t too thrilled when I saw they signed him.

But OK, as long as pitches good, that’s fine.

By Random

July 21, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Kevin C: “Buster Olney today on his blog places the O’s as the leading destination next year for tex -— if that does happen he really is about the money”

“Please give me a break, if it was about the money he would have taken Texas offer last year —- he will not get that money now”

Is it about the money, or is it not about the money?

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

*sixfourthree *

Thanks……..Ill check it out………..

Shaun

Are you suggesting we should keep JF???

Im with BFIR its time for him to go………he is killing a rally every game if not 2.

Thanks Random, maybe nscoots is playing “FBI agent” with his school friends, let him be happy…… Oh my god, you got me nscoots, please dont turn me in with authorities…….

Just kidding nscoots………not talking serious.

By timmy

July 21, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I know we have been rumored as inquirers with Bay and Nady, but I think acquiring either of those players will hurt our farm system considerably. I think a deal that makes a lot of sense would a Maddux & Hairston deal, which would include Junk Junk, I mean Jo Jo Reyes. Maddux said he would approve a trade back here, family even gave him the ok, and Hairston is hitting .348 as a leadoff hitter, .264 and rising, overall w/ 15Hr. That’s almost more than the whole outfield combined, with 10 HR in Petco and that is a lot with left field being what it is there. Just a thought

By Kevin C

July 21, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Random

You are right—I am trying to do too many things, I am stepping off the blog—let him go, I am just disgusted like most here on this blog about how we are playing

I apologize if I offended any with my remarks

By BravesFanInRockies

July 21, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

RE: Tex — I think it’s not entirely about the money. It’s a combo of cash + competitiveness.

He didn’t sign with Texas because he wasn’t convinced they would be a contender. That’s not a bad assumption.

He’ll surely listen to offers from the Yanks, BoSox, Angels, Dodgers because those teams have deep pockets and have fielded competitive teams.

He may consider the Braves, perhaps for a little less than top dollar, because he’s played in Atlanta, which does have a winning tradition, and he seems content.

He might listen to a team like the DBacks if he was convinced they’d keep the core of the team together.

He’d listen to the O’s, only for top dollar, because he’s from the area and Angelos is made of money.

Different teams, different situations.

By Pamela Y Jones

July 21, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

In the 70s and 80s, we always lost the game and enjoyed the day. Atlanta Stadium was not 1/10 as nice as Turner field, but, we had fun. See, we loved the Braves and their players.

I always pay at least what Mookie paid more often than not much more.

Programs, prime seats, cocktails, T-shirts, souvenirs (many), good foods and snacks. It is like a social to me and it is lots of fun.

By David O'Brien

July 21, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

OK, ladies and gents and other denizens, NEW BLOG IS UP

By Random

July 21, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Kevin C: “If he is so great, wonder why Boston would rather keep a gamer like Youkalis than trade for Tex?”

First, allow me to apologize for my snarky “half a clue” remark — it wasn’t necessary and added nothing to the discussion.

Sorry.

As for twe Red Sox decision to keep Youkilis rahter than trade for Tex — a couple of reasons spring to mind.

First, Youk’s hitting way better than Tex right now; but more important, Tex is a mere 2 months from free agency; Youk is 2 years and 2 months away.

By Why Us

July 21, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Kevin C

No need to apologize. You didn’t attack anyone. I don’t think anyone really attacked you.

Just other posters espousing different opinions, just some back & forth.

No harm intended, hopefully none taken.

By Shamus Thacker

July 21, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

I still say there was something fishy about Stenchy’s return after just 3-days. There’s NO WAY they thought 2-AA games had straightened him out. Wish we knew the facts.

By Random

July 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies —

Completely agree with you.

And let me add — it should be clear to everyone that TEX* himself is going to choose the team he plays for, not Boras.

Tex is paying Boras to negotiate with the team(s) that Tex decides he wants to play for.

And Boras is going to get him the best deal he can with a team Tex has identified — which is not necessarily limited to monetary considerations. Think duration, think no trade clause, think performance incentives, think options, think freebies (tix, etc), think obligations to the club (appearances, etc), etc, etc.

By Doc Holliday

July 21, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Pirates and Reds have scored more runs than us………..not good.

By ncscoots

July 21, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Well, Random, duh…guessed I missed the newsflash on the name change. Just one of the many monumental events here that have escaped me this season. Smoke rising from the scroll wheel on the mouse must have obscured it.

And, obviously, I once again have abysmally failed to communicate my point with that post, with my use of about one-third the number of ellipses of a typical Doc/Overlord “contribution”. Subtlety is overrated.

And, Doc, it’s ncscoots. Get it right, or not at all, whaddya say? My mother thanks you.

By Kentavo

July 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be too surprised if Mr. Frenchy is packaged in a deal. Not too many players criticize the homeboys upstairs and hang around long. I think it would be a good move for all parties if his value hasn’t completely bottomed out.

By skip

July 21, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Ok I’m new to this forum-where exactly is the new blog??

By Ed Glennon

July 21, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

I think as a little entertainment before the game, Corky and Jeff should throw to each other, and we could see how far they can really throw it. 5 of the 13 position players have one homerun each.
Tonight’s trivia question for Joe and The Fat Guy is: How many quality starts did Bob Feller have?

By Brave Fan in BAma

July 25, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

What is going on re the Braves media decisions?

They have taken the Braves, being Americas Baseball Team, from a national to a local team (no offense to my Atlanta friends) by taking the broadcasts off the Superstation. Each night, when they are telecast, you have to go on an Easter egg hunt to find where and what channel the game is on. Tonight, Friday night, and I can’t get the game because Dish Network doesn’t carry either Peachtree TV or CSS.

This follows removing the games from WSB so you can’t pick up the games at night while traveling around the South (unless you get a satellite radio).

Evidently the powers that be could care less about eroding the fan base outside the metro Atlanta area.