Braves

By Bobby

July 15, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

FIRST

By McFann :Ô:

July 15, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

So were Chipper and McCann even there last night? I kept looking for them, and didn’t see ‘em anywhere.

BTW, DOB—(Meant to ask you this yesterday.) How’s McCann’s arm? Is it still wrapped up?

Thanks!

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, that’s interesting about the BBWAA and the Players’ Union flap over awards voting.

Do you think there would every come a time when the writers refuse to give awards until the union agrees?

I also heard that there is an FBI investigation of teams pocketing bonuses of Latin American players. If the baseball players’ union actually cared, they would provide representation to Latin American players who sign with big league clubs to make sure they get the money they’re promised. But it seems to me the baseball players’ union is the most useless union in the world.

…

I’ve been to Yankee Stadium and sat in the bleacher seats. They are very far away from the action because you are behind the bullpens. And you can’t even leave that area if your seats are in that area; they won’t allow it. I was somewhat disappointed in it.

It’s special because you see the facade and think about Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig, DiMaggio, etc. But it also just feels like an old building. It’s not like Fenway, where you smell the grills around the park and you walk in and feel like you just stepped in to a work of art. Going to Fenway and the surrounding area is like going to a college football game in the south. It’s an atmosphere you live for if you’re a baseball fan. Yankee Stadium just doesn’t quite have that same feel.

By Chop Chop

July 15, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Really nice story over on ESPN.com’s E-Ticket about Our Lady of Perpetual Help Home near Turner Field. Here’s the link for those that want to check it out:

Making Time Stand Still by Eric Neel

By Guggie

July 15, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Favorite Yankee Stadium moment was when I was sitting in the bleacher seats —- a young Tiger fan was there in all his attire. He was there with Grandma and the rest of the family. The entire section was ribbing on him for the whole game. At one point someone took his hat and it was tossed around the entire section before it was returned. It was all in good fun.

I am a life long Braves fan and have had season seats for 17 years. I loved the intensity that Yankees’ fans brought to a mid-July nothing game vs. the Tigers in the mid-90’s.

I hate them to death but I respect their fans.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2010 ??????)

July 15, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Um, I’m going way out on a limb by predicting the A.L. to win tonight. By the way, If baseball were a religion, tearing Yankee Stadium down would be a sin.

By KyleH

July 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Any word on Tex. First I heard the whole Tex for Youk rumor and then I heard the Angels were interested and would offer Adenhart. I dont think the Braves will get much for him. They made a committment last year when the “gave up the farm” to get him. Now the have to keep him and sign him no matter what it takes or this will be a really bad move for the braves.

By Random

July 15, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Shaun —

Here’s Joe Posnanski’s 16 Nov 07 take on the BBWAA awards and potential conflicts of interest, and here is his 10 Dec 07 interview of Bob Dutton, then BBWAA president, which also touches on the issue.

Cheers!

(If anyone finds some more recent takes on it, please let us know. Thanks.)

By KyleH

July 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Any word on Tex. I heard the Tex for Youk rumor and that the Angels were interested and would offer Adenhart. I dont think the Braves will get good value for him which is why they should keep him and be sure to sign him at all cost. The Braves made a commitment last year when they “gave up the farm” to him. The Braves have to sign him or this is a really bad move by management.

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

KyleH, the Braves traded for Tex last season to make a run at a title while Smoltz, Chipper, etc. were here and productive. At worst the Braves get draft picks for Tex. At best, they can get some very good young players and a serviceable major league firstbaseman. Plus they can use the money that he would cost on other pieces. So it’s rather simplistic to view it as a bad move if the Braves don’t keep him.

By nolie

July 15, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

I also heard that there is an FBI investigation of teams pocketing bonuses of Latin American players. If the baseball players’ union actually cared, they would provide representation to Latin American players who sign with big league clubs to make sure they get the money they’re promised. But it seems to me the baseball players’ union is the most useless union in the world.Shaun

yeah I posted an article on it here two or three days ago. The Nats GM and their Caribbean scout are both main interests in the investigation

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Random, interesting stuff.

One solution could be to make the voting and the tabulations anonymous, and only the rankings public. Don’t know if this would help too much. Say you have a player having a decent but not great season and he finishes 20th out of 22 in an award vote and his hometown guy has written favorable columns about him.

Or maybe a compromise. Maybe only allow incentives if a player finished in the top three or even only if he wins an award. This would make a conspiracy less likely. It would have to be a pretty intricate conspiracy in order for that many writers to be in on it. Not saying it would solve the problem of all appearances of impropriety, but it would help.

I’m sure such solutions or similar ones have been thought through.

By Random

July 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

westy12: “Okay, Random, I admit it, guilty as charged. I committed the unthinkable offense of offering opinions and predictions on a blog. Who would do such a thing? Oh, you would? Right. I forgot… . Sorry, my opinions don’t come out of juvenile fanboy hero worship.”

Oh, but they do — they do!!!

Yours are the emotional, bitter, unfounded, unreasoned and paranoid opinions, laments and accusations of a juvenile fanboy scorned.

bravos2249: “Random … . Before you go any further about talking about Andruw and the Top 50 catches in terms of his year this year…that special first aired WAY back in April-June ‘07 which means it was taped about April-June ‘07 and voted on earlier that year.”

Okay, my mistake — I didn’t pick up on that. So, his recent offensive nose-dive was evidently not a factor in his omission. Thanks for the info.

To what do you attribute it then — do you more or less concur with Capt Caveman and TennesseePaul?

keylargo: “And the Braves on the field are unsure of who will be where next year and what their futures are. Hardly an environment condusive to putting out ones maximum potential. Again because of Tex and his contract.”

And yet, an environment common to and shared by many other teams every single year. You not only exaggerate the impact of the uncertainty on players, you also demean both their professionalism and their love of the game by suggesting they won’t “put out” their best efforts this season simply because they — virtually none of them — don’t know where they or their teammates will be next season.

How many other Braves will not be under contract after this season? How many of the rest don’t have no-trade clauses?

Why is it wrong for a player to actually fulfill the terms of his current contract and negotiate a new one with more than just one team?!?

Are you actually in favor of reinstating the Reserve clause in all MLB/MiLB contracts?

Your whole post was replete with panicked exaggerations:

“the Braves front office is going in every direction to plan a projected payroll that could be anywhere from $60 to $120 million next year”;

“if Tex were any kind of teammate he would realize how many people are in a precarious position because of his actions”

Get a grip, man — and stop blaming Tex for the business of baseball. This kind of stuff happens every year to virtually every team. It’s called the free market.

And if you are so sure that the “Tex situation” has been a source of friction both in the front office and the field — c’mon, cite your sources.

Chop Chop: “Random, Could you be a little less indulgent with the boldness?”

We’ll see — I’ll keep your sensitivities in mind in my future comments, and seek to curtail to some extent at least my egregiously self-indulgent fonts.

;-§)

By Anders

July 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Well folks - absolutely spectacular day here in NYC. Today NYC treats all the HOF’ers and this years All Stars to see what it feels like to get the NYC treatment as champions. They’re expecting over a million people to the parade. I suggest you tune in if you can, should be awesome. I’ll be the guy in the Mets hat and blue shirt.

Hey DOB. I’ll be in the lobby of The Plaza between 4 and 5 today having cocktails with some “clients” today if you want to pop in for a cold one. You can check my ID to validate my NY residency. Then we can take the subway together over to the Stadium. I’ll treat to both.

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

nolie, I guess the union is not completely useless. They help star players. That’s about it.

By Doc Holliday

July 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Letting TEX go is a step backwards………I dont see how can braves even think about letting go the guy with the most RBI in this team…………not in a team that has no ability to score runs.

If Braves had a team like the phillies……..I wouldnt mind letting TEX go. But as bad as we are scoring runs, I do mind. They will once again start from 0. Then they sign some big bat that wont be able to do the job by himself (as is the case with TEX right now). Learn the lesson. We need another bat. The thinking should not be………just replace TEX, but do something to add more offense.

By ernesto

July 15, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

I hope they burn Heap as a Pinch Hitter, Ideally, he jacks one, has a lifetime memory, and then sits on the bench and rests.

Don’t need him getting in ANY extra innings behind the plate this year.

They could pull Chipper after two or three innings and that would be just fine with me too.

By DAP

July 15, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

the tuff thing about trading tex is that it will be hard to get a major league player for him. since we would target teams that are right on the edge of winning, they might not want to break up what they have in order to add tex, meaning they wold only give us minor leaguers.

i would love to get james loney, but i wouldnt do it if i were the dodgers. tex would be an upgrade over loney for the remainer of the year, but they might then lose tex, and not have loney either, nd young 1st baseman who is going to be really good. anyways, loney is THE guy i want to get for tex…i just hope the braves get as much as they can for him.

By lewie

July 15, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

i really want to trade tex for loney….i’ve put in on here many a time but it seems the best fit.

then you get a prospect or two with loney and go out and get nady (i’m assuming he’d cost us one of our pitchers) or bay and our lineup would be stacked

By McFann :Ô:

July 15, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop—

Thank you so much for the link! Our Lady of Perpetual Help is not far from our Church. In fact, one of our priests just left us to be the chaplain over there.

Very nice article indeed! Thank you again!

By Marietta Dawg

July 15, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

I’ve been to Yankee stadium one time. They happened to be playing the Cleveland Indians and it was a couple days after that had traded for John Rocker. It was back in 2001 and I thought it was funny that I’m from Atlanta and I saw John Rocker pitch for the Indians in Yankee stadium and of course he was booed. My only regret is that I didn’t have time during the day to take a tour of the stadium.

I’ve been following Josh Hamilton all season and last night was his introduction to the rest of the baseball nation. He was awesome. How bout we ship Tex back to the Rangers for Hamilton?

DOB Did you get a chance to chat w/ Josh? I know he’s from NC and I also heard he’d like to play for the Mets, but any chance he might like to play for the Braves in the future? We could use his bat.

Good luck to Chipper and McCann!

By McFann :Ô:

July 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Ernesto I hope they burn Heap as a Pinch Hitter, Ideally, he jacks one, has a lifetime memory, and then sits on the bench and rests.

I agree! That would be GREAT!

The NL has got to win this year! (And that would be the perfect way to do it!)

Hurdle shoulda made him the DH. Like you said, don’t wanna give him too many extra innings behind the plate. At his current pace, he’s set to start about 58 of the remaining 67 games. (I think I calculated that right…)

By MGL

July 15, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I really wonder about how other clubs really value Tex and whether they believe all this $23 Million for 8-10 years that Boras is spouting. Consider the following rankings at the break for Tex vs all MLB batting qualifiers (3.1 PA/game). After the rank are the Braves ranked above him in that category.

BA 98th (Chipper, McCann, Escobar, Kelly)

OBP 41st (Chipper, McCann)

SLG Tie 51st (Chipper, McCann)

Walks Tie 14th (Chipper)

Hits Tie 63rd (Chipper, McCann, Escobar)

Doubles Tie 32nd (McCann)

HR Tie 33rd (Chipper, McCann)

I know that he normally does better in the second half, but it is a 162 game season. He is not leading the Braves in any significant offensive category. I just wonder what other teams think of his value, either now, or as a FA.

By McFann :Ô:

July 15, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Before the Derby: Hit, Heap, Hit! I’m gonna go with Morneau

Nice going!

By Daybed Wagmoe

July 15, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I’ve never been to Yankee Stadium, though I’m moving up to NY in about a month and plan to see one of the games at the end of August or their one homestand in September. Why would the schedule-makers plan for the Yankees to play only ten games at home in September during the final month of their stadium’s existence? I mean, I know that it’s to make up for other months like July, when they play only seven away games, but it seems like it would make more sense to have more home games in September. Oh well.

DOB - I’m sure Bud Selig will get asked about the policy on the significance of the All-Star Game and WS home-field advantage and possibly changing it…I’ll look forward to reading about what he says about that one.

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, right. If they want to contend next season, they’ll need to add more offense after they lose Tex.

But Tex is likely gone anyway. At what price do you want them to keep Tex? He’s not likely to be worth what he and his agent are asking, and he’s going to be very expensive and require a long commitment. So do you really want to set the franchise back significantly for one player?

I think the Braves need to be thinking about 2010-2013. That’s when McCann, Francoeur, Escobar, Johnson, Blanco, Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, Jurrjens, Reyes and Morton will be in their primes; Boyer and Chuck James will still be pretty young; and players like Jason Heyward and Schafer, Gorkys Hernandez could be ready to contribute.

Not that they should ignore trying to contend next season at all but their focus should be on getting players that will be helpful in that 2010-2013 range.

If a franchise wants to make a big push, sometimes it may have to deal with possibly taking a step or two back. But I’d rather see a dynasty during the early part of the next decade than risk it all by overspending and over-committing on players like Mark Teixeira.

By westy12

July 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Random,

Wasn’t the moral of your previous post that we shouldn’t make character judgments about people we haven’t met? (By the way, I filtered out the personal attacks to arrive at this moral.) That philosophy can be applied pretty selectively, huh?

No, my opinion about “Tesh” has nothing to do with the fact that I’m a Braves fan. Because my thoughts are the same about A-Rod, JD Drew, and all the other prototypical Boras clients.

Sure, everyone has the right to make every last dollar they can get. But it’s naive to think the Boras association doesn’t come with a hit to your reputation. Your “Tesh” is a guy that’s about money, I get that. He doesn’t care about which uniform he wears, or his teammates, or winning, or any of that stuff. For Tesh, the name of the game is: who’s going to win the artificial bidding war created by his agent? Because for “Tesh”, fair market value (150 mil) just isn’t enough.

You’re right, Random, your boy has every right to hold out for the highest bidder. But let’s not pretend these guys are good teammates, and that most fans don’t see Team Boras as selfish, greedy, and bad for baseball. I mean, even A-Rod, in all his spineless greatness, realized that money-at-all-costs isn’t good for team chemistry and public perception.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your fandom, Random. By all means, keep trying to convince yourself otherwise about your boy Tesh.

By RRR

July 15, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I’ve been to the Stadium OB: several times. Many more to Shea though, since I’m a Braves fan for over forty years. But, I was a Yanks fan as a kid growing up in North Jersey right across the river from the city. Clete Boyer was my favorite player as a kid, and when he was traded to the Braves, so was I ;). Anyway, I was there before the renovations, and yeah, it’s a special place. I’ve seen both baseball and football games there, but less than ten and all as a kid, so the memories have faded. Shea I would visit every year to watch the Braves though, and I saw the Who there, as well. You’d have loved that. The Clash opened for them. I have many memories of Shea, and all of them more recent…at least until I moved to SWFla ten years ago, and, as many of you who’ve been there know: it’s a DUMP.

ps: GREAT article on Chipper and his parents OB. I buzzed it.

By DAP

July 15, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

random about my post last night, i wont say anything else about it, because i try to follow the rules of the blog, but you cant talk about josh hamilton’s story without talking about Jesus. heres an ESPN article for over a year ago about him. and the story is even better knowing what josh did last night.

By BT

July 15, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop

Thank you. What a great story and life lesson.

By nate

July 15, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Tex puts up good numbers. but is trying to decide if he should be traded the Braves need to ask: Are we a better teams with him at first? Did the Braves average more runs per games after Tex arrived last year? Are the Braves averaging more runs per game this year than last year? Did the overall winning percentage increase when Tex was added to the lineup?

I haven’t crunched the number. I don’t know what the answers are, but it seems to me he’s managed to put up good numbers without really improving the team.

Right now it really doesn’t look like any of the prospects the Braves gave up to get Tex are gonna be impact players. So the trade to get him looks like a wash. But the Braves can still flip Tex for something useful, and that’s where this whole thing may really pay dividends.

By tyyosh

July 15, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

I went to Yankee stadium once in 1981 while interning in lower NY State. Promising rookie Dave Righetti pitched. Wow that’s when you know the years are going by.

The internet is interesting as an equalizer, where people feel free to insult and talk down to each other, etc. In the “real” world, if we all worked in the same place, I am guessing that some of the “insultees” are people we would be working for - several levels down maybe.

By KyleH

July 15, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun Ive gotta agree with Doc on this one. Its great that the braves may have $60+M to spend in the offseason but if we dont put it in Tex then where does it go. Sure we could get Ben Sheet but, again, pitching is not our problem. Dispite a “bad” year, Tex is leading this team in RBIs. The Braves cant be afraid to overspend because with the payroll the way it is and a possible payroll increase thew braves can do it. As much as i hate Boras, Baseball’s a business and Tex is the best available player and will be overpayed due to the competition for his services. Trust me, Tex needs to stay in Atlanta because by trading for Tex last year at high value and trading him this year at low value makes no sense when the braves have enough to keep him and to still have a good bit left to answer other problems.

By David O'Brien

July 15, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Just got out out of the BBWAA meeting with union officials over at the players assoc. headquarters. Pretty impressive offices they have, with a sweeping view of the “30 Rock” building and that area.

Just eight of us sitting around a glass table for 90 minutes or so, with Don Fehr and Gene Orza seated at opposite ends of the table.

We all agreed everything said in there was strictly off the record, so I can’t share anything. But it was quite interesting, to say the least. And it becomes clear quite quickly why Fehr has the reputation he does for being a master negotiator….

McFann, I didn’t see McCann without his sleeves over the arm yesterday, so don’t know if it’s wrapped. Can tell you he had two of the nastiest bruises you’ll see, one on each arm, a few days ago.

By Bobby's Cox

July 15, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

lewie and DAP

i agree. I’d rather have Loney as well. He’d come cheap over the next couple of seasons, and the team could go out and sign a an outfield power bat, some relief, and lock up Escobar to a long term deal.

Only problem is, there aren’t a lot of free agent OF available in the offseason. The best player without a club option is probably Ibanez, and that would be yet another left handed bat in the lineup. The best 1B free agents after this year (besides Tex), are probably Nomar, and Sean Casey if the Braves want to go that route.

To get a formidable first baseman and a right-handed outfield power bat, it looks like it would take 2 separate trades. The Dodgers could trade Loney and a couple of prospects (Kershaw i would imagine is untradeable), while the braves could put a package together for a Bay or Nady. I wonder what it would take to get Bay or Nady, maybe a KJ and more pitching prospects.

If you look at what’s available on the free agent market after this season, and what the braves need (1 starter, 1 reliever, another power bat be it a 1B and/or an OF), it looks like Tex should definitely be traded to fill some holes and it would definitely be for an OF or 1B replacement as there are some free agent pitching options.

Lowe, Sabbathia, Sheets, Garland, Oliver Perez, Kip Wells, will head the SP free agent list (Hampton, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Kenny Rogers, Livan Hernandez are older short-term options).

Francisco Rodriguez, Kerry Wood, Todd Jones, Isringhausen, Affeldt, Dan Wheeler, Ohman, Farnsworth, will head the RP signings. I really like Marte, but he’s got a team option for ‘09.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 15, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Troy Renck of The Denver Post says Holliday and Tex are the two top bats that might be available at the deadline and no one else is close.

I’m not at all sure the Rox will trade Holliday. Unless they’re absolutely blown away with an offer before July 31 I see them waiting til the offseason when a real bidding war would ensue. It’s tough to go from NL champ to fire sale in less than a year, especially when you’re not slashing payroll, as the Marlins did twice.

That makes Tex the top target. I’d like Loney or Kotchman (with other pieces involved) if Youk cannot be had.

And here’s another possibility for discussion’s sake, whether Tex goes for a ML ready guy or not —what about Ty Wigginton for Ohman or Campillo (again perhaps with other lesser pieces involved)?

Wiggy is destroying LH pitching (OPS over 1.000). He could play first or third or corner OF spots. You could find a place for him in the lineup every day, esp. if Tex were traded (he’d be your regular 1B, or at least part of a platoon). He’s insurance if Hoss goes down.

Thoughts?

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

KyleH, the Braves should not offer Tex a deal that is going to make him one of baseball’s highest-paid players in that 2010-2013 range that I talked about in the previous post, when all those young players will be in their prime and younger ones will be ready to contribute in the majors.

It would be best to use that “extra” money on a lot of relatively inexpensive, short-term deals to a lot of quality players so that the Braves could possibly contend next year while they wait for the kids to develop and reach their primes so that they can make a big-time run. And save the rest of that money for right before they are ready to make that big-time run and make some free agent moves to fill holes at that point.

I don’t think it’s wise for the Braves to make a huge commitment and give a ridiculous sum of money to a player who will not be worth that kind of money and commitment by the time they are ready to make that big run with all those players who are now in their early-to-mid 20s.

By Congrats Chipper & Mac

July 15, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

McFann After seeing Josh Hamilton own the HRD but not take home the trophy, I wish I had been wrong with my winner pick.

DOB Were Heap and Chipper at the HRD? I kept looking for them in the crowd of grey jerseys but I didn’t see them.

By BostonBravesGirl

July 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I lived in New York in 1996 (back when I was NYBravesGirl) and vividly remember the night the Braves lost the series to the Yanks. It was warm enough to have the windows open in most Brooklyn Heights apartments (right near the Brooklyn Bridge), and with the last out, Brooklyn Heights (and the rest of the city) just erupted. We could hear screaming and yelling from all directions, and my husband swore he could hear the crowds at the stadium. That wasn’t really humanly possible but, in his misery, he believed it.

Once Wade Boggs started riding the horse around Yankee Stadium, I had to turn off the TV, turn on the window-unit AC in the bedroom and put the covers over my head. I never made it up to Yankee Stadium during the time I lived in New York; that night ruined the place for me.

By DAP

July 15, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox Only problem is, there aren’t a lot of free agent OF available in the offseason. The best player without a club option is probably Ibanez,

milton bradley is a free agent after this year, and he plays all three outfield positions (though he is DHing now). i also think he would come very close to matching tex’s production batting 4th for the braves. there are some concerns with his health and his temper, but i think the braves need to try and sign him.

KyleH the braves are going to have enough money if they let tex go to sign bradley to replace him and fill other holes. the braves do NOT need to overspend on tex. and as good as our pitching is, getting better is always desirable. i think they will be in the mix to sign sheets as well, and i think they will sign at least one free angent starter, even if its just an innings eater #5 pitcher.

this will be a fun offseason, because the braves are going to be major players. they have alot of money, and alot of prospects and young players.

By TexasBrave

July 15, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

DOB yesterday you mentioned that New Yankee Stadium will be very nice, does that mean you have had the opportunity to tour the new yard? If so do you have any first impressions? Did they attempt to keep it in the mold of old Yankee Stadium?

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox, I think the organization has to take a bigger-picture approach. Bay and Nady are both three years older than Kelly Johnson. Why would you give up Johnson and pitching prospects for those players?

The Braves have to resist over-spending on players in order to shore up for when McCann, Francoeur, Escobar, Johnson, et al. are in their primes and Heyward and Schafer, et al are ready to contribute. Because teams rarely if ever build great teams through free agency and trades.

The organization has to look at the next best opportunity to make a serious run at something like 90-100 wins and focus on that. Yes, try like heck to contend next year but don’t lose sight of the next time there is an opportunity to be a dominant team, which is around 2010-2013.

By David O'Brien

July 15, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Nothing new on the Teixeira front, other than people in Boston I talk to believe it’s extremely unlikely the Sox would move fan-favorite Youkilis, who’s having a career-type year and is a patient, disciplined hitter with power and strong defensive skills at 1B and 3B — a perfect fit for Braves, in other words.

By TennesseePaul

July 15, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I just got back from Yankee Stadium and I gotta say I liked it. I enjoyed the nostalgia it offers and the closeness of the game. I was 3 rows back on the right side when watching the game. It was hot last Tuesday, but seeing Pettitte vs Kazmir with a Dirtbag at third was awesome.
Now, the other side of that is, it looked dingier and dirtier than I would have thought. It just looked old. The 70’s facade isn’t all that inspiring either. The field itself was the most redeeming part.
Speaking of the field, I paid attention this time to the grounds crew. It so inspired Payne I had to look. I don’t know if it’s a new thing they do or if they’ve done it since 1978, I haven’t ever paid attention, but the Yankees grounds crew dances. They dance while grooming the field. The Mets crew, I went to Shea two see the Giants/Mets game, doesn’t dance. From where I’m sitting, I prefer the non-dancing grounds crew. But I guess the dancing crew is more entertaining. It just seemed cheap for that to go on in Yankees stadium.
I’m glad I got to see the stadiums one last time. The new parks look incredible. And considering the New Yankee Stadium contains the exact same field dimensions, wider concourses, a throw back facade to the old days and more comfortable seating, I’m thinking it’s going to be just as inspiring to see. And cleaner too. It’ll be one of the only clean buildings in New York. The house that A-Rod built.

By N8

July 15, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Your 11:56 post is dead on. Well stated.

DOB

“We all agreed everything said in there was strictly off the record, so I can’t share anything.”

You could aways email your comments to one of us, and we could post them, by saying “….rumor has it, that…..”

You saying that the meeting was very interesting, but not being able to share it with us, is like going on a date with the “hot girl in school”, but not being allowed to tell your buddies any details. But saying….”you guys should have seen her…..”

Alright. No need to elaborate. In other words, that’s just a mean game of teaser. Just kidding of course. I get it. But now you’ve got me curious. As Stuart Scott would say……that ain’t right.

By bg

July 15, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Any word on Escobar’s MRI?

By TennesseePaul

July 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

it becomes clear quite quickly why Fehr has the reputation he does for being a master negotiator…

Did you find yourself handing over the keys to your house and the shirt off your back, only to realize the full extent of what had happened after the meeting was over, in the hall standing their with the other half dressed writers?
“Damnit, he’s good.”

By DAP

July 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

everybody im wondering what all of your opinions are on what we should offer tex for a contract. i am curious what you think, in a vaccum, tex is worth to the braves. dont worry about other teams, and bidding wars and all that stuff, (which i know is impossible to do completly, but just try) and let me know what you thinkthe braves should offer tex, what he is worth to them. ill work on what i think as well…

By La Jolla Dawg

July 15, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

I lived in the West Village for 11 months in ‘90-‘91, never made it to Yankee Stadium but did manage to visit Shea Stadium when the Braves played there. My husband and I were told to, “Shut up and sit down” by the Mets fans and were pelted by peanuts. Ahhh, memories. Funny thing, we weren’t being obnoxious at all, just wearing Braves hats and cheering politely during the game. That was the start of worst to first.

By Crazy Stats Katz

July 15, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

I really wonder about how other clubs really value Tex and whether they believe all this $23 Million for 8-10 years that Boras is spouting.

Tex is gonna make that money. Probably not for 8 to 10 years. The contract would most likely be for 7 years. But based upon last year’s market for free agents, the average team paid about $4.4 million for each win above replacement. There should be a 10% increase in that figure this year. making it about $4.84 million per win above replacement that teams pay players on the market this winter.

The question then is how many wins does Tex provide above a replacement player. Every win above replacement (WAR) is generally equal to 10 runs above a replacement player. Don’t confuse WAR with WARP.

If you believe he only provides 4 wins, or 40 runs, above a replacement player, then, according to Tangotiger’s salary scale, you pay him about $19 million for a one year contract or you pay him $106 million for a 7 year contract.

If you believe he provides 5 wins, or 50 runs, above a replacement player, then according to the salary scale, you pay him $24 million for a one year contract or $152 million for a 7 year contract.

If you believe he provides 6 wins or 60 runs above replacement as Boras does, you pay him $29 million for a one year contract or $198 million for a 7 year contract.

Just looking at his numbers - like batting wins from baseball reference, he has averaged 3.3 batting wins the last 3 years. You are supposed to take away a win for being a first baseman but then add two wins for being above replacement. So that gives you 4.3 WAR.

And then you consider his defense. I’m not sure what the defensive stats say about him but if you believe he is that good defensively, you give him another 0.5 to 1 WAR for his defense. That should leave you estimating him to be a 4.8 to 5.3 WAR type of player. Hence, why a team may pay him 7 years, $150 million because that is what an average team would pay a free agent who provides 5 wins above a replacement.

I’m not quite sure how Boras gets Tex to being 6 wins above replacement but he must have his methods.

But basically just assume that he is going to get a 7 year contract. For each half win per season on a 7 year kontract, add 23 million to the contract.

So, if WAR = 4, k = 7 yrs, $106 million

If WAR = 4.5, k = 7 years, $129 million

If WAR = 5, k = 7 years, $152 million

If WAR = 5.5, k= 7 years, $175 million

If WAR = 6, k = 7 years, $198 million

If you want to see the scale from last year and figure it out yourself, go here:

http://www.tangotiger.net/salary2008.html

By Shamus Thacker

July 15, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Should we overspend on a player who doesn’t give a damn about the city, the team, the W/L record, or anything baseball related? Should we overspend on a player who’s habitually slow outa the gate, then shrugs it off as something to be accepted instead of corrected? Should we overspend on a player whose LONE desire, involving baseball, is that SOMEBODY overspend on HIM? Doesn’t care who, doesn’t care where; money, being his one/only concern, is green coast to coast.

Y’all can guess as to the object of my disaffection.

By THB

July 15, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

The Braves should start a bidding war. The best matchup is clearly the Dodgers. We should demand Loney, and take Kemp if he’s the only one available. Then, demand Clayton Kershaw. They’ll likely say he’s untouchable, so go after James MacDonald. He’s blown through AA this year. He’s 4-2 in 19 GS with a 3.19 ERA. 103K/36BB in 101 IP. I like that line a lot. He’s 23 right now so I could see him starting out next year in AAA and making his way into the rotation.

That’s a good deal for the Braves-would the Dodgers do it?

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

And the likelihood that Ortiz is coming back next Friday would seem to make a Tex trade to Boston more unlikely, unless he unexpectedly suffers a serious setback that would put him out for all or most of the remainder of the season.

Would be kind of dumb to trade for a player you don’t need for two months or two months plus a ridiculously huge contract. And Boston doesn’t make too many obviously dumb moves.

By Random

July 15, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

nolie: “yeah I posted an article on it [FBI investigation of teams pocketing bonuses of Latin American players] here two or three days ago. The Nats GM and their Caribbean scout are both main interests in the investigation”

nolie, I just skimmed everything you posted here in Jun and Jul — could not find that article.

Do you still have the link, or title/author, keywords, etc?

Thanks.

Do you have any other particulars, Shaun? Thanks.

By N8

July 15, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Shaun

You’re on a role dude. Your 12:08 was strong as well.

I think in theory of how to “put a team together”, we are very close in our thoughts.

We just disagree (in terms of numbers), in what makes those players valuable to the team. But I’ve never agreed with you more.

It’s the same reason why teams like the Patriots (I know the NFL is different - with essentially no minor leagues to “develop” players), draft the best players available, as opposed to drafting in areas of need.

In other words, if you have a Top notch catcher, say for instance, Brian McCann, and when the Braves draft spot comes up, the best player available is a catcher. You draft the guy.

A team can NEVER have too much talent at one position. Talent is talent, and when it comes to trades, better to have TOP NOTCH talent in the minors (or on your major league roster), to trade. Similar to the Renteria/Escobar situation.

The Tigers needed a SS, we needed pitching. We had Escobar ready to play, so it was a perfect match for a trade.

Had the Braves not drafted Escobar (when we had Furcal - a very good SS in place), that trade is never able to be made.

I’m rambling a bit, but you get the picture.

In the 90’s JS did VERY LITTLE in terms of big name free agents (other than signing our own players we developed or guys we traded for to extensions), other than Maddux, Galarraga and Weiss. Everybody else were either call-ups or trades. Of course our deep (and very talented) farm system facilitated said trades.

I’ve NEVER been for free agency. We dominated the 90’s (regular season), by having a fantastic farm system which gave us (either via the draft or trades), Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Justice, Gant, Blauser, Lemke, Dye, Chipper, Klesko, Lopez, Andruw, Schmidt (Neagle), Grissom, McGriff, Sheffield, Millwood, JD Drew, Kotsay, Ortiz, Hudson, Furcal, Giles, Francoeur, McCann, LaRoche, Gonzalez, Soriano, Escobar, KJ, etc….

No need to break the bank on one guy, when the budget won’t allow us to field a competitive team. Maybe if the “streak” was still alive, you do what it takes to lock up Tex. But quite honestly, it was the “streak” that caused JS to not think towards the future when giving up Wainwright for JD Drew, and even the Sheffield trade. My guess is that at the time, Odalis could have been traded for a guy not as dynamic as Shef, but somebody who might have been here longer.

The farm system has allowed JS (and now Wren), to let guys like Furcal, Sheff, JD, Andruw, Maddux, Glavine, etc… to “walk” when they became to expensive (though, in hindsight, maybe Maddux and Glavine should have been retained at all costs).

No need or reason to start doing things differently now. If anything, with our limited (still better than most teams), salary options, the farm system needs to be STRONGER than every, to assure that we can make trades for guys that other teams are dumping in fire-sales that are under reasonable contracts.

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DAP, here are the 2008 salaries for this some top firstbasemen:

Berkman - $14.5M

Morneau - $8.4M

Pujols - $13,870,949

Youkilis - $3M

Gonzalez - $875,000

Howard - $10M

D Lee - $13.25M

Miguel Cabrera - $11.3M

Carlos Pena - $6M

I think Tex is worth in the $10M a year range. I think he’ll probably get around $12-16M a year for at least 4-6 years.

My highest offer would be about $11.5M a year for 3 years, maybe a fourth option year.

By McFann :Ô:

July 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Chief! During the game, we’ll be able to tell. When did he get hit on the other arm? Musta been a night game that I didn’t see…foul ball off the bat of a Parde most likely…

Congrats Chipper & Mac—

I was hoping Josh H. would win, too! He shoulda saved 5 of those first-round homers for the final round!

I didn’t see Chipper or McCann, either. But there are a few good photos of Chipper during batting practice on the “Official All-Star Page” or whatever it’s called. (No photos of 3BMac.)

By Braves20

July 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

The thoughts expoused here that the Braves should look to the future makes a great deal of sense.

However, during the Cox era, the strategy has been play for this year i.e. Tex, McGriff and other lesser mid-season pick-ups. Would be surprised if that strategy changes while Bobby occupies the manager’s office. It should change as others pointed out - just doubt that it will - to the detriment of the ball club.

By TexasBrave

July 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

IMHO Tex is a player we could build a great team around. I think we already have a lot of key players in Chipper, McCann, Escobar, Hudson, Jair, and French (no way he keeps hitting like he has this year). All we need now is a slugging LF or CF and another reliable starting pitcher either from within the organization or from outside.

So with that said I can conceiveably see payroll being as high as 125 million. If that is the case why not offer Tex 20 million a year plus some incentives. Someone has mentioned that no team has won a championship with one player making more than 16% of the teams overall salary. Well 20 million of 125 is 16%.

Tex will most likely be offered more than this but not considerably more. As some have said here I don’t see Tex as being overly greedy, he just wants his fair share and has Boras to make sure he gets it. Remember ultimately Tex is the one who has to sign the contract. Boras gets the best offers he can, presents them to Tex who weighs the offers and picks whats right for him. I think 20 million and the chance to stay in Atlanta is better than 25 million to play in New York or Boston.

By DAP

July 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

ok, ive got my figure. if i were the braves, i would offer tex a 5 year, $75mil contract, with a few performance bonuses…MVP awards, whatever. and, i would front load it slightly.

tex isnt going to take a deal like that, bu thats what i think he is worth to the braves, and thats what i would offer him.

he wouldnt take it, but you know who would? milton bradley would sign for less than that. ben sheets would probably sign for that. ryan dempster would probably sign for that. mike cameron would sign for less than that. furcal would sign for less than that. orando hudson would sign for less than that. eric hinske would sign for less than that. heck, we could extend hudson for that much.

im not saying id offer this or any contract for any of those players, just pointing out how many free agents are out there that we could get for the money we are gonna save on tex. with all the money we have off the books, we WILL be able to afford to sign a couple of BIG free agents. and i hope we do.

By Random

July 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Please, DAP, spare us.

I’m beggin’ ya, man.

By Renegator

July 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

DAP

Thanks for sharing that story about Josh Hamilton. I did not know that and now I have a new found respect for him.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

It looks as if Tex and Holliday may be the only two impact hitters avaiable at the deadline and I’m not at all sure the Rockies will offer Holliday. They’d probably get more for him in the offseason and it’s difficult selling your fans that you’re serious about building a winner if you go from NL champs to fire sale in less than one season UNLESS you’re slashing payroll (and the Rockies don’t plan to).

So Tex may be the only big bat out there. I’d love to see a deal for Loney or Kotchman or Youk with other pieces involved.

Here’s another idea, whether or not Tex is moved: What about Ohman or Campillo for Ty Wigginton (again, with other lesser pieces involved)?

Wiggy destroys left-handers. He can play first or third or corner OF positions. You could find a place for him in the lineup every day, with Tex on the club or not. He should be much cheaper than Nady or Bay.

Thoughts?

By Bobby's Cox

July 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

DAP

Ya I saw Bradley was a free agent, but with his attitude I don’t think they braves would target him so I didn’t put him on the list (though I linked it).

With the signing of Taveras and Spiezio this year, Bradely good be an option. We could use his bat.

By Shaun

July 15, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Random, here is a link to a story on the FBI investigation involving bonuses to Latin Americans:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/FBI-investigating-swindling-of-Latin-American-pr?urn=mlb,93678

N8, yeah, I think we do agree. Free agents and trades are not the way to build a team. The Braves are going to have something much bigger and better than a key free agent or two in a couple of years. They are going to have a lot of players entering their primes at the same time, some slightly older players that should still be very good and some very talented young players just entering the majors. That’s about 15 times better than signing a good free agent or two.

By Jake C.

July 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, Have you heard if the Red Sox would trade their 1B prospect Lars Anderson or if the Braves would have any interest in a package that included Anderson?

By AJ in Augusta

July 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I grew up north of NYC and once I could drive, I’d go to Shea and Yankee stadiums and buy a pair of tickets to every scheduled doubleheader (yes, way back then) for the summer.

Toronto was in town in April of 1977 and the Yankees were in a slump. After buying my tickets at the stadium box office, I bought a single ticket to that afternoon game and stood outside the players entrance with a bunch of other kids and had them sign my ticket envelope.

The signatures included Phil Rizzuto, Jimmy Wynn, Ed Figueroa, Willie Randolph, Roy White and several others… but the best I one I got was good ol’ Billy Martin. I still have it in a small frame.

I sat down the right field line and the crowd gasped when they posted the Yankee lineup. Billy had put all the starters names in a hat and drew the order.. with power hitter Chris Chambliss batting 8th.

The Yankees won 8-6 that day… and went on to win the division and the World Series that year.

I was fortunate to have watched the ‘69 and ‘86 Mets and then the Yankees of the late ‘70’s before moving South in ‘88.

Lesson to learn Braves fans… treasure those 14 straight years of excellence that Cox and crew put together.

As Simon & Garfunkel once sang, DOB:

“Time it was, and what a time it was, it was. A time of innocence, a time of confidences.

Long ago, it must be, I have a photograph.

Preserve your memories, they’re all that’s left you”

By cabravesfan

July 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

McFann- Mac got hit by a bat (someone’s backswing got him) on the left arm on Saturday night

By ATLFAN

July 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

To the the one and only:

Sould we listen to a blogger who doesn’t ever have any hard facts to back up his assertions? Should we listen to a blogger who habitually brings nothing to the table in terms of intelligent discussion? Should we listen to a blogger whose LONE desire is to smear a ballplayer he has probably never met, knows nothing about, doesn’t care who, doesn’t care where, being his one/only concern is to type nonsense on a daily basis?

Y’all can guess as to the object of my disaffection…

By cabravesfan

July 15, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

McFann- sorry- I actually think it was Friday that Mac got hit

By MiamiBrave

July 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’m just asking your honest opinion, from what you see, from what you feel covering this team. I’ve followed this blog for a while now and have a high respect for your opinion.

I’m just wondering if you believe this team can actually still make a run at the division? because the wild card is almost definitely a no go.

I believe the pitching is there, and they should be getting some additions (hopefully) through health issue recoveries, but the offense is what has been woeful, not producing to its potential.

So just wondering what you think from what you see.

BTW, will you be in Miami covering the series at Dolphins stadium?

By OrlandoFan

July 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

I’ve actually had the pleasure to be at Yankee Stadium on two occassions: the games there for the 1977 and 1978 World Series. I grew up a Yankees fan in the days of Mickey Mantle, and much as Josh Hamilton said, my yard was that stadium, and I was the Yankees CF. That was a few decades and doses of reality ago, but that was the world. CBS owned the Yankees, and Diz and Pee Wee called their games on their Game of the Week (only the announcers and network have changed today!) I fell out of love with the team after Steinbrenner bought it and found my way to the Braves during their dismal early years on WTBS. But I, too, was in awe when I visited the Stadium. It was larger and more rustic than my little B&W TV could show, and looking at those short porches down the lines made me think I indeed could have hit a few out of there. Ha. The greatest memory, of course, is Game 6 of the 1977 Series, when I had the pleasure of watching Reggie Jackson hit three homers in three swings (with a 4-pitch walk mixed in). I’ve been privileged to witness some great moments, but that was one of the most unexpected and powerful displays I’ve ever seen. I have to add, however, that watching Reggie in BP that night was one of those “awe” moments for most of us. He just kept launching them. It’s a wonderful ballpark for the games played there, but it’s amenities — at least way back then — were, uh, rustic. I love old and charming, but I also like clean and safe. I’ve been to Fenway and to Wrigley, but they don’t compare to the cathedral-like atmosphere of Yankee Stadium.

By Chad

July 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Anybody heard anything about Escobar’s MRI? I have a fantasy baseball roster decision to make!

By raindawg722

July 15, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

I went to Yankee Stadium to see an afternoon tilt against the Angels last year with my brother-in-law. We were sitting on the field level, pretty far down the foul line in left. The couple next to us was getting sloshed. At one point, the woman left her seat and while she was gone the guy spilled a pretty full beer all over her purse. He then tried to recruit us to convince her that a foul ball had come into the stands and knocked the beer over.

I also went when I was a kid while staying with my grandparents in Connecticut. I remember the Yankees played the White Sox, who were wearing their ugly 1980s uniforms, Sinatra singing New York, New York, and that the hot dogs seemed much better than the dogs at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.

By DAP

July 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

shaun thanx for your response. after seeing the numbers you posted, my offer to tex may have been a little high. i based it on the fact that he is getting 12.5 in arbitration this year, though. either way, the point is made…tex would be nice to have, but if you had a choice of him or two or three other very good players, youd be stupid not to take the 3 players over the one.

By N8

July 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“N8, yeah, I think we do agree. Free agents and trades are not the way to build a team.”

I’m not as “down” on trades, if they’re of the “trading from surplus for a young, talented player that we can control at a reasonable salary” variety. Like Renteria for JJJ. Or the Doyle for Smoltz variety.

Now, I don’t expect for us to trade aging veterans for a HOF caliber player. But, one could argue that had Smoltz left in the 90’s and signed elsewhere, that trade would have still been a VERY good one for Atlanta. The fact that he’s going to the HOF and will more than likely spend his entire big-league career in the Braves uniform, is just a bonus.

I’m just not a big fan of the Wainwright for JD, Odalis for Sheffield, 5 prospects for Tex, type of trades.

In a perfect world, those guys lead us to a WS title, and they look better in hindsight. But those type of deals generally don’t work out. The McGriff trade did (be it 2 years later), and we certainly got the better of that deal.

I’m just glad the “streak” is over, so Wren can focus on the future, rather with short bursts of greatness.

In the end, I’d still rather have 162 games of GOOD baseball year after year, and “choke” (or have bad luck. LOL!), in the post-season, than go for it with a HUGE “mover and shaker” type of trade that falls short.

If we end up getting a major league ready 1B for Tex, and maybe another high ceiling prospect, it will diminish some of the “loss” that we gave up for Tex in the first place.

Like has been said before, we ultimately traded Andy Marte’ for JJJ, with two pretty damn good seasons of