AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 07 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves (and Frenchy) start big week in SoCal
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Los Angeles — Good day from the City of Angels, denizens. And it appears there’s a couple of them by the pool 20 floors below (hey, it’s L.A., couldn’t resist a bad line….)
OK, let’s get to work.
I’m well rested, unlike Carroll, who happened to cover a home series when it all hit the fan, beginning with her early morning wakeup call about Francoeur and finishing 60-some hours later with a 17-innning, rain-delayed epic.
Then as I’m writing this out here this morning, she gets a call and breaks the news that Jeff Francoeur has already been recalled and will join the Braves here in L.A.
It’ll be Francoeur, Brent Lillibridge and my old buddy Vladimir Nunez (knew the Cuban reliever when he was with the Marlins) joining the Braves in place of the DL’d trio of Omar Infante, Jeff Bennett and Manny Acosta (with only six games until the break, Braves obviously believe they can get through with one less pitcher than they were carrying).
A tip of the cap (like the Braves, who’ve done a lot of proverbial cap-tipping lately) to Ms. Rogers, and to former Braves beat man and noted wordsmith Tom Stinson for his contributions to the Francoeur Chronicles. Well done, both of you.
(Frankly, I wasn’t even missed, which is never a good feeling; with the state of the economy, you want to always feel missed when you’re away, know what I mean?)
Anyway, let’s get to it. Oh, and can you imagine how the Braves would’ve felt flying cross-country last night had they lost that game yesterday? Potentially very big win going forward towards the All-Star break.
I say potentially, because if they don’t build on that win during this six-game trip, if they come out and fall on their faces againt the Dodgers and Padres this week, then that 17-inning win will quickly be forgotten.
But if the Braves can put a good trip before the break, they might look back at that Sunday marathon as a game when their fortunes changed. We’ll see. Obviously a lot must happen for them to accomplish that.
Fact of the matter is, however, that the Braves are still “just” six games back despite everything. I mean, it hardly seems possible given the disappointments, injuries, etc., but the Braves are are a game closer to their division leader than Detroit is to its own division leader.
And here’s the really hard-to-believe one: Braves are only one game further back than the Boston Red Sox are behind AL East leader Tampa Bay (and how ‘bout the Yankees, who are nine games out of first and only two games ahead of Baltimore. That’s a whole lot of cash spent for third or fourth place.)
Of course, the Red Sox would have the AL wild card lead, while the Braves are behind four other NL teams if you were to put together NL wild-card standings today. But it’s nonetheless a reminder that so much of your own team’s fate is tied to its division opponents, which can be such a fickle thing year to year.
Recent case in point: The Cardinals wouldn’t have won the World Series in 2006 if they’d played in a tougher division, because they wouldn’t have made the playoffs with an 83-78 record.
But back to these Braves, who truly must be a maddening, frustrating teams for you folks to watch. Again and again they go through a stretch or a series where they look dead in the water, where fans must be thinking, “OK, at least now we can think about next year and be sellers at the deadline.”
Then they win a series and the Phillies lose a series, and we’re right back at 5-7 games back and not even to the All-Star break yet.
But the Braves haven’t had as much as a three-game winning streak since May 22, and only once in that stretch have they won back-to-back road games, in the Angels series down I-5 from where we are now.
The Braves went 21-12 with a .295 average and .305 ERA from April 17 to May 22, including a five-game winning streak to end that run. Since then they are 16-26 with a .245 average and 4.15 ERA.
And in their past 20 road games, they are 6-14 with a .237 average and only 74 runs scored.
So it’s time. This is it. The most important road trip to date (and we’ve only said that, what, four times this season?)
Oh, well, at least we’ll only be able to say “We’re not even at the All-Star break yet” for one more week, right?
I think the Braves still have a chance - not saying a good one, but a legitimate chance - to win the division only because it’s such a parity-ridden division, and a parity league, for that matter.
Just look at the NL standings today, for example. There are only two teams, the Dodgers and Reds, who are better than 6-4 in their last 10 games, and both of them are 7-3.
The only three NL teams with as high as a .550 winning percentage are all in the NL Central. Every team in the West has a losing record, and six teams in the other two divisions are below .500.
In the AL, there are two teams that are 8-2 in their past 10 games, and Tampa Bay is 9-1 in its past 10. There are five teams with .550 winning percentages or higher, three at .580 or higher, and two above .600, the Rays (55-32) and Angels (53-35).
All that being said, for the Braves to make a run at the division title they’re going to have to start putting together more than two wins here and one there. This is a team that can’t put together a sustained run, the kind that might make you feel good about their chances and believe they actually have some hope other than the rest of the division turning over and handing it to them.
Charlie is inexperienced: Those of you who believed Charlie Morton was a salve who’d fill in for a veteran starter without any slippage, really must not have given much credence to his minor league career at all.
As was pointed out here several times, this is a young kid who only started figuring things out last August, who hasn’t even had a solid half-season in his professional baseball career yet, much less a full season.
So to anticipate that he wouldn’t get lit up occasionally, maybe even frequently, in his first tour of the big leagues wasn’t realistic. It’s the rule, not the exception - top young pitching prospects are going to struggle in their first year in the big leagues.
Jurrjens, he’s the exception, not the rule.
The important thing is, Charlie is very talented, and now he believes it.
If they’d called him up earlier, say after his first few great minor league starts this season, then getting knocked around in the majors might have been hard on his psyche. But from talking to him, I think Charlie’s past that point of doubting himself now, of questioning whether he’s worthy of all the praise.
Dodgers on a roll: Not the best time to be getting the the Dodgers, who’ve won five of six in July, all on the road. They started the month with wins in the last three games of a four-game series at Houston, then took two of three at San Francisco.
It’s worth noting that the Braves have won five straight games against the Dodgers since July 4, 2007, including their last two at Dodger Stadium in that series and a three-game sweep this April in Atlanta. The Braves posted a 2.20 ERA in that April 18-20 series.
The Dodgers are playing much better now and getting good pitching despite the absence of injured Brad Penny.
Andruw not on a roll: The same can’t be said for Andruw Jones, whose first year away from Atlanta has been pretty much a complete nightmare.
He’s hitting .161 with two homers, eight RBI and 50 strikeouts in 143 at-bats, and just got back from a six-week stint on the DL for arthroscopic knee surgery for torn cartilage. He has a .262 OBP and .259 slugging percentage.
With runners on base, the ex-Braves CF has hit .062 (4-for-65) with 27 strikeouts and an .062 slugging percentage.
With runners in scoring position, he’s a majors-worst 1-for-38 (.026).
He had a homer and two walks in a April 19 game at Turner Field. Since then, Jones is 13-for-88 (.148) with one homer and 32 strikeouts. He’s 1-for-10 with five strikeouts since getting back from the DL.
His next homer at Dodger Stadium will be his first as a Dodger, which might partly explain why he’s booed at home, according to observers, louder than any athlete for any Los Angeles pro team in recent memory.
By the way, since the beginning of the 2007 season, Andruw has played exactly 200 games and hit .210 (150-for-715) with 33 doubles, 28 homers, 102 RBI and 188 strikeouts, with a .301 OBP and .382 slugging percentage.
Things really started to go south for him in mid-August 2006. He’s hit .214 in 245 games since Aug. 12, 2006, with 41 doubles, 40 homers, 132 RBI and 219 strikeouts in 866 at-bats, and a .317 OBP and .406 slugging percentage.
Andruw and Frenchy: In 2006, Andruw and Francoeur hit a combined .261 with 70 homers and 232 RBIs in 318 games. This season, they’ve hit a combined .170 with 10 homers and 49 RBIs in 131 games.
Chipper and the batting title: I’m gonna make a bold prediction that Matt Holliday will be the only hitter to seriously challenge Chipper Jones for the NL batting title this season.
Holliday has hit .380 (46-for-121) with seven homers and 27 RBIs in his past 31 games, raising his azverage to .343, fourth in the league behind Hoss (.388), Pujols (.350) and Berkman (.349). No other qualifier is hitting as high as .325.
Chipper, by the way, is still hitting a jaw-droping .437 at home, a 64-point lead over the Cubs’ Kosuke Fukudome (.373). Holliday is next with his .368 at Coors Field and Berkman at .362 in Houston.
Should be noted, Turner Field’s the only pitcher-friendly park in that group.
Chipper’s also back leading the league in OPS at 1.125, ahead of Berkman (1.103) and Pujols (1.094).
And we haven’t updated the Chipper-since-June 2006 numbers recently, so let’s do it now:
He’s hit .361 with 72 doubles, seven triples, 66 homers and 203 RBI in 262 games since June 24, 2006, with a .449 OBP and .651 slugging percentag (yes, that’s a 1.100 OPS over 262 games).
And since returning from his last DL stint on June 13, 2007, he’s hit .369 (233-for-631) with 42 doubles, four triples, 35 homers, 125 RBI, 110 walks, 82 strikeouts and a .460 OBP in 169 games.
The Braves are 87-82 in that stretch when Chipper plays, and 4-13 when he doesn’t.
OK a diversion or two: The Tom Waits show at the Fox on Saturday was even greater than his performance at Tabernacle a couple years ago. The man is simply one of the most entertaining performers in the world today, and his band was top-notch across the board. Just sublime stuff, seeing him play. Tix ain’t cheap, but he’s one who’s worth every penny of whatever it costs to see him….
Saw two good movies this week. Well, one terrific one (Gonzo: The Life and Work of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson and one very entertaining big summer movie, Hancock. I was surprised how much I liked the latter. And though I figured I’d like the Thompson documentary, I had no idea it’d be as great as it was. It’s by the same director who did the doc No End In Sight last year.
Any fan of Hunter must see it. Run, don’t walk. Better yet, drive.
And finlly, I’ve got to recommend this relatively unknown singer-songwriter, Chuck Brodsky. If you can find his CDs, do yourself a favor and buy one or more. This guy’s a rootsy, no-B.S. songwriter who also happens to be a big baseball fan and has written several tunes that are about as good as you’ll ever hear about the subject.
Here’s one I love, about a famous (or infamous) no-hitter that Doc Ellis threw for the Pittsburgh Pirates in San Diego, on a day that began with him in L.A. believing that it was an off day and doing something he would’ve never, ever done on a day he thought he was pitching (if you’re not familiar with the story, Google it; this really happened).
”DOC ELLIS’ NO-NO” by Chuck Brodsky
It was a lovely summer’s morning
An off-day in LA
So thought one Doc Ellis
As he would later say
His girlfriend read the paper
She said, “Doc, this can’t be right…
It says here that you’re pitching
In San Diego tonight”
“Got to get you to the airport”
And so off Doc Ellis flew
His legs were a little bit wobbly
And the rest of him was too
Took a taxi to the ballpark
An hour before the game
Gave some half-assed explanation
Found the locker with his name
Time came to go on out there
Down the corridor
The walls were a little bit wavy
There were ripples in the floor
He went out to the bullpen
To do a bunch of stretches
Loosen up a little
Throw his warm-up pitches
All rose for the national anthem
People took off their hats
Fireworks were exploding
The cokes were already going flat
Doc was back there in the dugout
So many things to watch
Some players spit tobacco juice
Others grabbed their crotch
The umpire hollered, “Play Ball!”
And so it came to be
Doc’s Pirates batted first
And when they went down 1-2-3
Doc’s catcher put his mask on
And he handed Doc the ball
It was 327 feet
To the right & left field walls
The Pirates took the field then
And Doc stood on the rubber
He bounced a couple of pitches
And then he bounced a couple others
You might say about that day
He looked a little wild
The leadoff batter trembled
Nobody knew why Doc Ellis smiled
You walk eight and you hit a guy
The things that people shout…
Especially your manager
But he didn’t take Doc out
Doc found himself a rythym
And a crazy little spin
Amazing things would happen
When Doc Ellis zeroed in
Sometimes he saw the catcher
Sometimes he did not
Sometimes he held a beach ball
Other times it was a dot
Dock was tossing comets
That were leaving trails of glitter
At the 7th inning stretch
He still had a no-hitter
So he turned to Cash, his buddy
Said, “I got a no-no going”
Speaking the unspeakable
He went back out there throwing
Bottom of the ninth
And he stood high upon the mound
Three more outs to go
He’d have his name in Cooperstown
First up was Cannizzaro
Who flied out to Alou
Kelly grounded out for Dean
The shortstop yelled, “That’s two”
It must’ve been a mad house
The fans up on their feet
The littler ones among them
Standing on their seats
Next up would’ve been Herbel
But Spezio pinch-hit
He took a 3rd strike looking
And officially, that was it
It was a lovely summer’s morning
An off-day in LA
So thought one Doc Ellis
As he would later say
Services »
Comments
By pfunkatl2
July 7, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
hmmm…3 days? My BEST guess is that Diaz wasn’t quite ready, and they wanted to bring Jeff back AWAY from the home boo-birds. We shall SEE what happens, but I wouldn’t count on an INSTANT turn-around.
By Carolina Matt
July 7, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
first?
By Soul Man
July 7, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
DOB or any other denizen: How encouraged should Braves fans be about the ability to go after a high-priced free agent this fall or perhaps deal for a guy at the trading deadline who’ll be a free agent at the end of the year? I mean if Smoltz retires, Hampton doesn’t get signed again (ha!), Glavine doesn’t get signed again (ha!), then the Braves will be coming into some substantial money, arbitration and pay raises notwithstanding. Am I right?
By prattvillenolzfan
July 7, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Welcome back DOB
As you pointed out, you missed out on an interesting week-end. Glad to hear that the concert was worth it..
I’m going to paraphrase a post I did on the other blog about 45 minutes ago.
Have you heard why Frenchy & not Diaz.
I think that recalling Franceour sets an extremely bad precedence for the Braves.
Franceour was upfront about not appreciating, nor understanding the move. Now it gives him **More Reason to feel like the Braves can’t survive without him.
I truly hope he gets it together. If he struggles like he did before being sent down, the fans at the Ted will be absolutely relentless on him (as well they should be).
Also, like I mentioned earlier, it doesn’t bode well for Frank Wren either. I feel like this move was bothched from the beginning.
Welcome back, the world is on your shoulders even more so than before….Hope you can handle it**
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Reposted:
From braves.com:
…Brian McCann, who, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, is the first Brave to be selected an All-Star in each of his first three full Major League seasons. Hank Aaron is the only other Braves player to gain three All-Star selections in his first four full seasons.
Sweeeet!
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
By the way, I’m told Braves have sold Resop’s contract to a Japanese team.
That’s one decision — Resop over Yates — made this spring that certainly didn’t work out as planned.
By Run Heap Run!
July 7, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Welcome back to the blog, DOB.
I was hoping to read your thoughts on the 72 Hour Frenchy Experiment and his comments therein.
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Wren made a complete a@@ out of himself with this Frenchy herking and jerking over the weekend.
The right move was to send him down. But to move him back up so quickly?
Not a very impressive 72 hours for Mr. Wren.
By pfunkatl2
July 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
How REMISS of me…welcome back DOB, and we ALWAYS miss you( though we are THANKFUL for CR as well) ONE HELLUVA game yesterday…between THAT and Wimbeldon I was EXHAUSTED…lol.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
In Chipper’s chase for the batting title (agreed, Mr. O’Brien that Holliday, or maybe Pujols will likely challenge), it’ll be fun to see if he can break Rogers Hornsby’s franchise record batting average (.387) or the Atlanta Braves record held, I think, by Rico Carty (.366).
And any of you gripes out there who think Chipper’s not a gamer should have been paying attention when he legged out that triple yesterday.
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
I’m afraid they’ve jumped the gun on bringing Jeff back, but if he comes back and goes lights out we have to wonder what magic Wellman worked.
By Renegator
July 7, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Frenchy back after only 3 days???
What a joke.
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Whoops…Forgot the best part in my last post…
“Don’t be putting me in that [category],” said a smiling McCann, after being told that he’d actually accomplished something that Aaron and every other player in Braves history had never done.
By Random
July 7, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Anders: “Braves mgt has to swallow it’s pride and create a feeding frenzy for Tex for the greater good of your team… . Now is the time to talk up Tex. What is Wren waiting for? Play one against the other. Hank Steinbrenner will take the bait. No way he lets the Mets get Santana and the Sox get Tex in the same season. Sabathia is gone and now with no other big pitcher out there to help Hank and the boys might resort to trying to club their way to the playoffs again.”
DOB: “Anders, … just because you haven’t heard it, doesn’t mean things aren’t going on behind closed doors.”
Ominous.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Forgot to mention, Buddy Carlyle has really changed my opinion of him since a couple of early games when I thought the effectiveness he had for much of last season was completely gone.
In fact, he’s become the lights-out long reliever I thought Bennett would be.
Since giving up a run in consecutive games in mid-April, Carlyle has posted a 0.78 ERA in 23 innings over his past 14 relief appearances, with a .165 opponents’ average and no homers allowed in that span, and with 25 strikeouts and 10 walks.
Great stuff.
Meanwhile, DL stint for Bennett might be a blessing in disguise. Bennett has looked tired for weeks and has an 8.53 ERA and heinous .423 opponents’ average over his past 12 appearances, with 22 hits in 12-2/3 innings.
By TNJeff
July 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Who will strike out more in the Dodger series - Frenchy or Andruw Jones?
By superadam
July 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
DoB Who starts Perry or Frenchy? I go with Perry and keep Frenchy on the Pine untill needed in a double switch
By DCbrave
July 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Repost and a bit more …
When you see Frenchy was swinging the bats well and hitting .538 in the minors, when you see Perry was not much help anyway and nobody else in sight to throw at Rf, when you know this road trip could be decisive, and when you do have injuries so that he can come back within 10 days, you recall him. It’s decided by the combination of all of the above. I really don’t see a problem here.
As much as we don’t like Frenchy’s attitude, what we really care is whether he can get his swing back and be productive, which was the only purpose sending him down anyway regardless of what you think otherwise. Come on guys, we need to be a bit more mature than he is.
I believed sending him down was a good move and now believe recalling him back was not a bad one, given all the circumstances. It is not a move Wren would have made if it were not for the circumstances regardless what he said.
No, I don’t think Wren will get less respect from the players, most fans, because of this. On the contrary, players may like him more because he kept his words: sending you down was not a demotion or punishment but to let you get your swing back in a less presurized situation.
There is no guareentee that he truly got his swing back in 3 days. but could he for sure get his swing back in 10 days? Is there really that much a difference between 10 and 3 days besides the difference in math?
You say he was hitting AA pitchers there. So what?! He was before he got here 3 year ago, and McCann was before he got here 3 years ago, and both of they did it not too bad against big league pitchers. He was going to be against AA pitchers anyway, 10 days or 3 days.
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I found this Braves team report on Yahoo very interesting, especially for the Chipper quotes after Saturday’s game. Nice to see that kind of honesty about the team’s situation.
I have no idea why Wren would call Francoeur back up. He killed the ball in AA for a very short amount of time, but I’m willing to wager that the pitchers were a big reason why. I won’t say that the move is ridiculous (he might go on a tear, I suppose), but if Francoeur hasn’t improved at the plate and ends up being platooned (or riding the pine), this situation could get very ugly.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Just a thought. Maybe Wren was reading the last blog and realized that if the Braves go on a roll between now and the All Star break he won’t be able to trade Tex for prospects? The antidote? Bring Frenchy back!
Should they win tonight expect Chris Woodward on the next flight out to tinsel town.
By Austen
July 7, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Is Charlie going to start Saturday, or will his start be skipped?
By Murphy
July 7, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Agreed AGTfan. I was rolling my eyes at the computer when I read that news this morning, but if Frenchy comes back roaring mad and hitting the cover off of the ball, then Wren made a good move…if not then I think you have to lose a bit of respect for the guy.
By Braves WIll WIn
July 7, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
After the all-star break this team will be the healthest it has been all year. Diaz will be back and Hampton continues to stay healthy rehabing. Saturday he pitched 5 Innings while surrendering no runs. He hopefully will comeback and be productive. I also belive the recent bullpen arms to the pen was more for rest.
By BossLady
July 7, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Where are the comments made by Francoeur regarding the Braves and his being sent down? From what I gather from bloggers it was quite ugly.
By fastasballs
July 7, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Well you can’t things are dull around here. All we need is some good trade rumors & it will be perfect for some good blog action.
Bottom line is they need a 4-2 or 5-1 road trip going into the break. Anything less & the Tex shopping should begin, if it has not already to some degree.
I have my doubts if 3 days at AA will have done Frenchy much good. If Wellman can work that kind of majic he needs to be on the bench with the Braves.
If Frenchy has not improved he should go right back as soon as Diaz is ready. I don’t agree with bringing him back that quick for a variety of reasons. I don’t think this does him any good in the long run & the long run is more important as this season in regards to Frenchy.
Any trade rumors floating around DOB? We’re hungry for some action.
By Carroll Rogers
July 7, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
there was a question on the other blog about why not have francoeur in the lineup tonight. it’s simply travel issues. he’s flying commercially and he’s got to make connections and there’s a chance he doesn’t even get to LA until the middle of the game.
trust me DOB, you were missed! thx for what you said.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
McFann
Congratulations on your boy making the all star team. He definetly deserves it.
You took a lot of crap over the winter and stood by him. You deserve it too.
By RC
July 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know the record for highest batting avg. by a switch hitter? I would think that might be a record that Chipper has a legit shot at, assuming it’s somewhere in the .380 or lower range.
By BOBCEE
July 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Does Jeff still feel betrayed? Are they going to have a group hug in the clubhouse tonight? Wow 72 hours and he is cured. What a miracle.
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Great blog and good to have you back DOB. We can appreciate Carroll, T. Stinson and you (but apparently, not at the same time!).
It’ll be interesting to see how Frenchy gets worked into the lineup.
By Gibby
July 7, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Front page headline on ESPN.com:
Braves recall ‘betrayed’ Francoeur from Double-A
This is like one of those instances where you can rip your little brother all you want, but if somebody else says something, that ain’t cool. And this ain’t cool! The guy made two negative statements in a really long article, and that’s how the national media is going to play this up. Sure, he shouldn’t have said it, but emotions are running high; and now everybody else in the country is going to sense this huge rift between Frenchy and the Braves. All I can say is Good Luck Frenchy!
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
While I think it was too soon to bring Jeff back, the truly sad thing is how many “so called” Braves fans are going to be pulling against him. There are a lot of jerks who get on this blog who really have no right to call themselves Braves Fans, or sports fans for that matter.
By Carl Jr
July 7, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Personally, I haven’t missed Francoeur a bit. That kid who took his place at least makes the pitcher work to get him out. By the way, why not recall Diaz if we needed a right handed hitting outfielder?
And Brent Lillibridge seems like a nice kid with a good glove, but he has the bat of Corky Miller. Do we really need two position players who hit less than Campillo and Hudson?
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Welcome back, DOB!!
By Darren
July 7, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB…..
You were missed big time by me. I was wondering where you were. I was looking for some big time insight regarding Jeff’s demotion. The articles were small and there was no place to vent. Good to have you back buddy.
By Shaun
July 7, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Do we have a Perry/Francoeur platoon?
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Where are the comments made by Francoeur regarding the Braves and his being sent down? From what I gather from bloggers it was quite ugly.
Actually Boss Lady, they were pretty mild.
By Jeff321
July 7, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Frenchy’s getting traded, eh? Because if not, this “move” is absolutely terrible. Now, of course if he comes back and has a bionic ankle, maybe he can get to some of those balls in the outfield.. or maybe even run out a double play? However, I wouldn’t bet the house on it.
Ya know, that win was very exhilarating yesterday. And now I’m right back down to earth with this stupid decision to bring him back SO SOON! Sheesh.
By Cybed
July 7, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Three words: Frenchy Trade bait
Any word on that Carroll/DOB?
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
I think I have an idea what happens when Wren and his organizational lieutenants get Behind Closed Doors.
(I just hope it’s not going down like that…)
By Efrim
July 7, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
Wow. I didn’t see those comments that Chipper made. That is frustration to the maximum. Good post. Thanks for the link.
By DCbrave
July 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Carroll Rogers- there was a question on the other blog about why not have francoeur in the lineup tonight …
That was me asking. Thanks much, Carroll, for the job well well done in a crazy week. And your W-L record with the Braves so far this season? I bet you it is better than DOB’s.
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
There are a lot of jerks who get on this blog who really have no right to call themselves Braves Fans, or sports fans for that matter.
BTW - Before anyone gets upset, I wasn’t referring to anyone who’s posted here so far today.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Gibby
The guy made two negative statements in a really long article, and that’s how the national media is going to play this up.
Welcome to the world the NY teams live in all day every day. If a writer wants to inflame an issue they almost always can.
By Random
July 7, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
DOB: “And since returning from his last DL stint on June 13, 2007, [Chipper]’s hit .369 (233-for-631) with 42 doubles, four triples, 35 homers, 125 RBI, 110 walks, 82 strikeouts and a .460 OBP in 169 games.”
And he purt near hit for the cycle yesterday, shy by just one double. 3 for 5 with 4 walks.
By TommyP
July 7, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Repost from last blog…. Frank Wren just lost some respect. Seriously.
Let’s cast aside whether sending Jeff down was the right move to make. Right or wrong, they did it.
But to call him back up 3 days later?
And then to say that this had nothing to do with the injuries??????
Correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t Franceour need to stay in the minors for a minimum of 10 days without any injuries???????
A DL stint would’ve been smarter now.
I can not believe what they’ve just done.
Frank Wren: Uh….the public gave you a lot of leeway in Baltimore and blamed a lot of the idiocy that took place there on a meddling owner, Peter Angelos.
That excuse isn’t there anymore.
“Go to your room! You’re grounded for two weeks!”
“This has put a damper on our relationship, Dad!”
“OK. You’re grounded for 3 days. Forgive me?????”
By sportsnut4
July 7, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
http://www.total-e-sports.blogspot.com
By Woodseat
July 7, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, It looks to me like this road trip could be the deciding factor on whether Wren will be a buyer or seller next week. If we finish this trip below .500 I say it’s time to part ways with a couple of “names”. Tex would be a good place to start.
I hope the 72 hrs in Mississippi was enough time for JF. However, I fear he needed another week or so.
I would love to see us land a starter or two and another arm in the pen. A RF or 1B in a trade for Tex or KJ wouldn’t be bad either. Will be interesting to see what Kotsay does the rest of the way.
Thanks for all your hard work!!! Carroll too.
By Threadkiller
July 7, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Boy, reading the previous blog and now this one reminds me of a riddle..
“How many morons with NO baseball knowledge or playing experience post on Blog’s”?
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Man, the laptop jockeys are pouncing on this Francouer thing! Did it occur to anyone that, no matter how it might look from the outside, that if Wellman felt Frenchy needed more time in Pearl, he would tell Wren?
By BossLady
July 7, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Thanks, and that is good. I don’t like to see trouble in the clubhouse or team controversy.
By Nate33
July 7, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Wow back after 3 days. Doesn’t say much for Wren. Though for Frenchy who has looked pretty much lost this last month not to mention for most of the season, do you really think it took only 3 days to find his swing again. When he left he couldn’t throw his bat in the ocean while he was standing in it. But hey maybe he will come back with a bang and things will turn around. We shall see.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
by the way, looking ahead to tomorrow (doing my ondeck scout box is why), Jurrjens has another very tough draw: Bilingsley is 4-0 with a 1.37 ERA in his past four starts.
By BT
July 7, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
The first conversation with Bobby and Frank Wren should be very interesting. It might be good for Jeff if he doesn’t get in to LA until the game has started. Of course if Bobby has been thrown out of the game he and Jeff could have a few minutes of “alone” time together in the clubhouse when Jeff arrives.
DOB can you give us some info on your old buddy Vladimir?
Thanks
By macdwolfpack
July 7, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
DOB, great to have you back as well we all missed you, no offense to Carroll but she’s no DOB.
DOB can you give us a scouting report on Nunez since you have known him so long?
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
DAP Now that is the kind of trade I’m talking about.
How about the Angels including Casey Kotchman in a deal?
The players(s) don’t have to necessarily play 1st base either.
brent a It is 100% possible that prospects acquired in a trade can be sent back out in exchange for major league talent.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here?
What team will give you 2 young players who have already performed at the major league level for 2 months of Tex? Efrim
Efrim, this all just theater of the mind ok. Use your imagination, I’m sure you can find a young major league player or two that could help the Braves.
Btw, are you serious about those two BoSox prospects? That Anderson kid had 11 Hr’s in 494 ab’s, Scott Thorman had 11 hr’s last year in only 287 ab’s. It says on the BoSox website that he “compares to James Loney”. My point is that it is better to get Loney than the guy in the minors who they think can be like him. The other guy doesn’t stand out as being better than several of the prospects already in the Braves’ system.
I’m still don’t see the problem with that?
I don’t want to trade Tex. I think it is one thing to give up on one season but trading him away might be a sign we’re giving up on more than just this season. I don’t see how trading him for some guy, for example, who has 11 Hr’s in the minors makes us a better team next year?
I have yet to see any of those who want to trade Tex address this issue. It’s so easy to say trade the guy, but then what? How does that make us a better team?
We from this season that people don’t back the young players for very long. So why in the world would you go out and get only more?
By AZBravoFan
July 7, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
DOB: I agree with you on Carlyle. He’s really kept the team in some games when the starters struggled early. Unfortunately the offense couldn’t get going or he might have snagged a couple wins. He looks like he’s got that groove back that he was in last year. Any chance he gets a spot start or two if Charlie continues to struggle? I know Bobby hates messing with a guy who’s doing so well in his role. (ie. remember how long it took to get Oscar out of the pen when the Braves were desperate for a starter.)
By DAP
July 7, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
AGTfan There are a lot of jerks who get on this blog who really have no right to call themselves Braves Fans, or sports fans for that matter.
dont have the right? didnt 4th of july mean anything to you? :-)
also, the stuff frenchy said was out of line, and not very smart. i, for one, and pulling for him big time.
By macdwolfpack
July 7, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, if Frenchy comes back on fire, how bout we send Pendleton down and bring up Wellman:)
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Anders! Yeah, I took a lot of it…But I appreciate the support I got (and continue to get when I need it).
He really does deserve to be in the All-Star Game this year. McCann said he thinks the selections in ‘06 and ‘07 “just kind of happened.” (Though we know the truth, man. You deserved it in ‘06.)
But dang: The first player in Braves history to be selected in each of his first three full seasons? Couldn’t be happier! (OK, maybe at least one hit yesterday would have made it better…)
By ernesto
July 7, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
“Four core players on the DL — tough for almost any franchise to overcome — as well as disappointing performances from many components of our team, most noticeably in the bullpen, leave us at the juncture we’re at. There wasn’t much doubt or question in our mind that it was nearly impossible for us to become a contending club this year.”
That’s the Indian’s GM explaining why they traded a 28-year old Cy Young award winning left-handed ace away.
I guess they were certain couldn’t re-up him, but I’m not happy if I’m an Indian’s fan- or season ticket holder.
The Brew Crew is suddenly looking very formidable in the 2nd half.
4 core players on the DL - we do that in a week!
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
From yahoo.com”
The question had not even been finished, the one about Friday’s promising, key hitting and pitching, and how, then, on Saturday could the Braves…
“Lay an egg?” Chipper Jones asked, finishing the question.
“Absolutely pathetic!” Jones announced. “For us to get three baserunners tonight—three—is pathetic. Against anybody.”
Reminded that he was alarmed at the way the Braves were playing as early as the first week of the season, Jones did not wait for the traditional All-Star break team summary opportunity to size up the ongoing situation
“There’s a reason why we’ve been at or near .500 for two and a half years now,” he says. “To win one-run games, pitchers have to get bunts down. You’ve got to hit behind runners. You’ve got to put the ball in play with a guy on third and less than two outs. You have to do the little things to win those one-run games, because a run here and a run there is the difference. We don’t do it consistently.
“Now, there are other factors. You’ve got to make the big pitch when you’re in trouble. You’ve got to make the big play where there’s two outs and they’ve got guys in scoring position.
“But my domain is the offense. And we don’t consistently play good enough small ball to win the one-run games.”
Do the hitters not have a plan for each at bat? Are they unable to recognize pitches, or pitching patterns? Do they not have a grasp of situations and what is called for?
“I don’t know the answer to that,” Jones said.
“I’m not a guy that’s asked to go up there and bunt. But I know that if I were a pitcher, a front of the lineup guy or an end of the lineup guy, that it would certainly be in my arsenal. Getting a bunt down—with the exception of a very few pitchers in the game—it should be a lay-up. I mean, it’s a fundamental part of the game. It should be a lay-up.
“We didn’t even get five hitters into their lineup (Saturday) and we’re down 4-0. And then all of a sudden everybody going, Oh no, here we go again. And then guys start to press, the guy’s pounding the strike zone, we’re getting behind in the count and everybody’s frustrated. Then we have to hit his pitch. It’s a snowball effect. And it starts from pitch one in the top of the first.”
By ppaddy123
July 7, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
The idea that Frenchy is going to be used as trade bait is very intriguing. It looks as though teams are going to pull the trigger earlier this year when making trades (C.C. Sabathia to the Brewers) Sometimes a change of scenery is all a player needs to turn his year around (except Andruw). And even though he has struggled this year, he’s young and an attractive contract for most teams. I can also see where the Braves might dangle Brandon Jones.
I can’t see them moving any pitchers. Every MLB team needs pitching and this is one area the Braves have a little depth (like it or not Mike Hampton will be back soon also)
By jbutler
July 7, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Wow. Guess Frenchy had a boomerang attached to him to get tossed out and swung back in so quickly. Ridiculous. Maybe the thought is to get him back w/the club on the road trip to get him comfortable before facing the boo birds at home. Makes no sense. But…ask Corky. Apparently he makes as much sense as this.
DOB Hey- you could headline at the Holiday Inn w/your one liners if you decide to make a career change.
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Anybody believe Wren’s yarn on Stenchy’s meteoric return? Not I, me said.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 7, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Thanks for that blog link sportsnut4. Sorry to see Yankee Stadium go.
While not a realistic possibility engineering and cost-wise, I thought it would’ve been great if they could’ve made the outfield fence distances for the All-Star Game the same as when the Stadium opened in 1923. Imagine a Home-Run Hitting Contest when it would take a 500 foot jack to hit one out to dead center. And 480 or something to left-center.
By Kevin C
July 7, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
I think that Wren is going to be a disater for the Braves, just my two cents. As for Frenchy saying he felt betrayed, fine, hit and people will not boo and by the way, act like you care in the outfield. Right now he should be a tradeable piece in the offseason, send him to KC or some place and let him play there. He sounds like a spoiled brat, Thank goodness the Braves did not sign him long term.
Tex for Youkalis and an arm—yesterday was the first time I think I saw him hit in the clutch but then he should have
By DAP
July 7, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
kirknga kotchman might be less available since the angels are playing well and leading thier division. the dodgers are close, but have a sub-par offense.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 7, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
1) I second DOB’s comments about Buddy. He was wonderful Sunday, and talk about running on fumes in that final inning. Hope he can bounce back in a couple of days. He may be needed.
2) So if Frenchy does go on a tear upon his return, should TP be looking over his shoulder? If Wellman can turn JF around that quickly, he really is a genius.
(I’m kidding. A little.)
By roman88
July 7, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
i doubt he’ll be any better , his feelings got hurt, now he either comes in with something to prove, or folds like a cheap suit, i guess the later.
By Coach Smith
July 7, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Frenchy goes 7 for 13 in the minors (should’ve been 8 for 13) with the help of WELLMAN
Maybe it is time for TERRY PENDELTON to take some heat for the horribly UNDERACHIEVING offensive approach and results on this team
By Reid in EAV
July 7, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Candid thoughts on Frenchy, though hopefully not unkind ones — I’m truly a fan of the guy and hope he become all he can be as a player. (I’m not thrilled that he only spent 72 hours in AA, but I don’t fault the move given the circumstances.)
Perhaps it’s the best you can do for a midseason adjustment, but I’m not sure if I like Wellman’s coaching of his swing, at least what I’ve heard about it. “Be yourself, keep doing what you’re doing, don’t stifle your aggressiveness, etc.” Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s this exact approach that major-league pitching has caught up with and exploited.
It’s one thing to hit AA pitching. Yes, they throw 90+ MPH too, but they don’t have the ability to execute on Frenchy’s scouting reports like the big leaguers do — basically in terms of hitting the spots (get strike one, then go slider away, fastball further away ad nauseum). Jeff, in his natural state, is a mistake-ball hitter (specifically mistake balls inside) and you get a lot more mistake balls in MIssissippi than in Atlanta.
Is Jeff capable of being “himself” for the rest of the season? Assuming that means about .260 average, 100+ Ks, 20something HRs, 80-90 RBIs and a scant handful of BBs, yeah, I’m sure he can get there. (And that would be an improvement, for sure.)
But if he really wants to be franchise player, the swing and the entire hitting approach needs to be rebuilt, top to bottom. Use of all fields, a tighter, more compact swing, etc. (Hriniak-Lau vs. Wellman, seems to me.) Do you do that midseason? Probably not. Do you need to do that eventually? The answer to that is all Jeff’s. Does he want his approach to impose limits on his considerable skills, or does he want to aim for the Chipper-like heights at the risk of not landing in the higher gear he’s aiming for?
By chc4
July 7, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
The Braves are 5 game under .500 over halfway through the season and most of our injured pitchers aren’t coming back (please don’t even bring up Hampton). This notion the Braves are suddenly going to wake up is laughable. This team isn’t good. We need to trade Tex and move on.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Been a while since I’ve seen Nunez on regular basis, but he looked pretty good in spring training. Good (not great) fastball, good (not great) breaking ball, but his biggest strength is his sometimes unconventional approach, like most Cuban pitchers, especially older ones. He’ll change angles and he’ll throw breaking balls in fastball counts, that kind of thing.
By rupert
July 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
DOB, what do you think about the whole frencouer move?
I get the fact they think this is big and they need him, but it looks a little like he whined and got his way back because he beat up on some AA pitching, hopefully wellman got through to him and he lights it up, any true braves fan hopes that because he is the best option we have in right and him doing well is good for the team, i’m still p**, like a lot of people, at the spoiled nature of his comments, i don’t blame him for feeling that way, but you gotta be more mature and keep your mouth shut, for his sake I hope he hits in his first game back at the ted.
By The GM
July 7, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Can we all say the older they get the more the people running the Braves look ill-equiped at running a baseball team. Who believes that it is Wren making the decisions and not one of the oldest, Shuerholz, behind the curtain pulling strings? It makes entirely no sense to tell Frenchy he’s down for at least 10 days and bring him back after 3. All he has proven is he can hit AA pitching which is no suprise. In his last at bat he still stood there at the plate and took a called 3rd strike, which way to many of the Braves do too. When you are facing a 3rd strike get the bat off your shoulder and swing …maybe you will get lucky and hit the ball which is way better than putting up no resistance except to glare at the umpire for daring to call you out. Also as reported in the AJC Shuerholz’ kid has become the Braves roving lower minor league fielding instructor? How do the Braves justify this decision?
By jbutler
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Local papers reporting the Rox are willing to hear offers on Holliday/Francis (closer) but don’t truly expect to get much for Holliday since his numbers haven’t kept up outside Coors. Since I’m a hometown Rox girl I’m hoping he stays put - he’s a good egg w/about the only star power on the team. But he’d still be a decent get for the Braves.
I’m glad Buddy showed serious tenacity yesterday- its nice when the journeymen step up - especially in light of the Braves situation…they’re truly needing anyone/everyone not on DL (or pouting in the minors) to step up- performance/attitude-wise.
By Interested Observer
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Wow! Chipper’s comments were dead on. I’m sure he didn’t mean them this way, but they didn’t reflect too well on Terry Pendleton in my opinion.
By the way, has anybody figured what was up with Acosta trying to bunt left-handed? That was strange.
By flange1
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Afternoon all,
DOB, thanks for the new blog.
I keep forgetting Buddy C and you are spot on, he has been pitching great.
I think both Bennett and Acosta can use the rest.
Anders,
your 2:33 post was great! I spit water all over my key board!
In terms of the Frenchy thing, I really am having trouble understanding keeping him in Mississippi for 3 games.
I agreed with the decision to ship him out (would have preferred to see them DL him), I disagreed with his reaction, and I am in shock about recalling him so soon.
While I do not agree with his reaction to the demotion, I will still pull for him to succeed.
I just don’t understand the move!!!
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
DAP
I would think that Tex is an upgrade over Kotchman so they would be an even better team.
The point was just giving an example of if a trade went down, ask to include somebody who is already playing well at the major league level.
You do that because a known quantity is less risk than an unknown one.
Like I said, there’s this pathologically short praise-to-damned cycle that seems to go on with almost every prospect/young player we have save JJ and he was on his way until he got a little rest.
By Random
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Yeah, great Braves Yahoo link, Chop Chop!!! Thanks!
Here’s some quotes from Chipper to whet everyone’s interest:
“There’s a reason why we’ve been at or near .500 for two and a half years now,” he says. “To win one-run games, pitchers have to get bunts down. You’ve got to hit behind runners. You’ve got to put the ball in play with a guy on third and less than two outs. You have to do the little things to win those one-run games, because a run here and a run there is the difference. We don’t do it consistently.
“Now, there are other factors. You’ve got to make the big pitch when you’re in trouble. You’ve got to make the big play where there’s two outs and they’ve got guys in scoring position.
“But my domain is the offense. And we don’t consistently play good enough small ball to win the one-run games.”
“I’m not a guy that’s asked to go up there and bunt. But I know that if I were a pitcher, a front of the lineup guy or an end of the lineup guy, that it would certainly be in my arsenal. Getting a bunt down — with the exception of a very few pitchers in the game — it should be a lay-up. I mean, it’s a fundamental part of the game. It should be a lay-up.”
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
AGTfan - There are a lot of jerks who get on this blog who really have no right to call themselves Braves Fans, or sports fans for that matter. BTW - Before anyone gets upset, I wasn’t referring to anyone who’s posted here so far today.
Just arrived, as a jerk I’m saddened and tremendously hurt !
By OldDawg55
July 7, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Apropos to nothing…I am constantly amused by the audacity of fan/bloggers who question the moves of general managers/field managers in their handling of baseball operations. Where do they get the nerve to question men whose everyday job is baseball; whose careers have been baseball for years and whose livlihood depends upon their knowledge and decisions in the everyday world of major league baseball? These guys’ (Cox/Wren/Shuerholz, et al) knowledge so far exceeds the half-a* opionions of the casual observer of the sport that it isn’t even funny to read the second guessing, ranting of the unlearned. Oh well, that’s life, I guess…just seems kinda stupid when you look at it!
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
One question chc4: How’s about Hammy!?
By Interested Observer
July 7, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
I hope Frenchy tells Wren that carrying Corky Miller as the back-up catcher is putting a damper on his relationship with the team. Maybe then we could afford to get McCann some rest.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 7, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
I don’t usually get this worked up, nor get too personal with anyone, but after reading this post, I just can’t help myself
By Darren July 7, 2008 2:46 PM You were missed big time by me. I was wondering where you were. I was looking for some big time insight regarding Jeff’s demotion. The articles were small and there was no place to vent. Good to have you back buddy.
Even DOB has to admit…What a big time SUCK-UP
Do you have a picture of DOB in your bedroom (or better yet, your bathroom)
The articles were small……They were spread from one end of the AJC to the other end of the AJC.If you didn’t see them, it’s probably because you spent all week-end at the pride festival
There was no where to blog…..First of all, we don’t recognize your name, so give us a break. Second of all, Carrol’s two different blogs had what,400/500 posts on each one.
You were looking for some bigtime insight regarding Jeff’s demotion… What about Carrol’s explanation What about Wren’s explanation What about the players explanation What about N8’s What about Lew’s What about McFann’s What about Joe Brave (he had alot of interesting observations What about Braveheart
Should I keep going
What a complete a55kisser, brown-noser and most of all a complete moron and dumba55……
By Rick
July 7, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
DAVE!!!! Tyler Yates 32 BB and 24 K’s. This is not the help we need
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
DOB Is there any further word on Yunel? He was saying after the game yesterday that the diving stab he made may have aggravated his earlier injury.
By DCbrave
July 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
macdwolfpack - if Frenchy comes back on fire, how bout we send Pendleton down and bring up Wellman
Nah, not before he could throw his grenade on target!
DOB Welcome back and completely agree with you on Carlyle. I actually wrote on the previous blog that he even deserved some all star consideration if you ask me. But my concerns is we don’t want to jinx him — whenver we say somebody is good here, he started to stink immediately. It’s hard to be consistent when cox uses some of his pitchers that much. Physiology dictates!
Also, I’m amazed how quiet you’ve been today with Frenchy’s coming back. I know you mentioned it in the previous blog but it seems that you just don’t want to comment on it.
By Ed Glennon
July 7, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
It looks like three days away from TP did wonders for Frenchy. Let’s just hope he doesn’t watch Andruw hit in LA.
By THB
July 7, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Kirknga-Lars Anderson is one of the top prospects in the game. He’s been compared to the James Loney of last year (15 HR in about 100 games). He’s been as highly touted as Heyward is and was #40 on the top 100. He’s an excellent 1B prospect who is a pure hitter. He’s only 20 so the power will continue to grow.
If the Braves deal Tex and are sellers, they should think about dealing Ohman. The Red Sox want another lefty reliever. Maybe we could get Josh Reddick (OF) from them along with Bowden and Anderson. Look up Reddick’s numbers, 15 HR, .374 OBP, high AVG, good power. Also 20 years old playing with Anderson. Then maybe a young prospect and it’s a good deal.
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one (I doubt it) who noticed Blanco catching the ball in center field with two hands yesterday?
Looks like a coach or player informed him that he’s not exactly Andruw or Willie Mays out there. It’s good to see that correction was made.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Maybe it is time for TERRY PENDELTON to take some heat for the horribly UNDERACHIEVING offensive approach and results on this team
That’s fine so long as he also gets credit for the Braves h producing the 3rd most runs in the NL under him.
And he gets credit for 2006 when..The Braves led the National League in home runs (222) and slugging percentage (.455) and ranked second in the circuit in runs scored (849) and batting average (.270). The home run total ranked second in franchise history, while the runs total ranked second in Atlanta history…”
Or 2005 when...”The 2005 Braves became the first team in history to reach the postseason with six rookies who had 100 or more at-bats (the previous record was four rookies by the 1983 Los Angeles Dodgers and the 1989 Chicago Cubs).”
And” in his second season as Braves hitting coach in 2003, the team established franchise bests in home runs (225), hits (1,608), doubles (321) and slugging percentage (.475) and had the highest team batting average in Atlanta history..
Give heat if that’s what you feel, but be fair too.
By BlackberryCobbler
July 7, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
What’s most comical about Fran-cine coming back so soon is Frank Wren saying it had nothing to do with injuries and DL making room for him!! Simply comical… LMAO. Wren is clueless and thinks fans can’t see through this scam.
Well, we’ll see starting tomorrow night. Now that the supposedly “new and improved” Fran-cine is pronounced fir to return, we’ll see if he can even bat his weight. The pressure is on now more than before.
By Lew
July 7, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Didn’t Doc Ellis come out years later and claim he was on LSD when he pitched the No Hitter? Not too sure how he did it, even with all those walks and hit batters.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Rick, I didn’t say it was the help the Braves needed. They’ve got the third-lowest bullpen ERA in the league, so they’re doing alright without him. But wouldn’t you agree, in hindsight, that he’s done better than Resop? I mean, Yates has made 41 appearances, held righty hitters to a .210 average (albeit with a .350 OBP in 100 at-bats, allowed a .207 average with runners on, and .179 average with RISP
Too many walks, yes. I didn’t say he was great. But Resop was a bust. That’s all. Not a big deal either way, just that one at least has produced some innings and done some good work late in some games. The other has been sold to a Japanese team….
DCbrave, “All-Star consideration” for Carlyle? Come on, man. A few top setup men and closers are the only relievers who make All-Star teams.
By The Frenchy Joke
July 7, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Recalling Frenchy after 3 days? What a Joke! What did sending him down prove? It proved he can hit double A pitching. There is no way that anyone at Mississippi waved a magic wand and healed young Frenchy of his hitting woes in three days. Frenchy relaxed at double A? I’m sure he did. It wasn’t that level of ball that Frenchy was having trouble with, it was the big league caliber of pitching that was killing him.
Injuries? Sure the Braves have injuries, but the point is to get Jeff straight so he can contribute over the long haul when he comes back. He should have been off limits for recall until he had a couple of weeks to apply what he was working on even if you had to call up a right handed hitting outfielder from A ball.
The Frenchy move seemed as much about saving Bobby Cox from himself as much as Frenchy from himself. Bobby wouldn’t sit Frenchy so I suppose Wren sat him for Bobby.
This really makes Braves management look like clowns. Who is running the show here? Did Bobby demand Frenchy’s return? Does Bobby really work for Wren or does Wren work for Bobby? Did Bobby go over Wren’s head to JS and he made the decree?
I have no way of knowing what’s really going on there, but whatever it is, it looks really Micky Mouse.
By DCbrave
July 7, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
prattvillenolzfan- What about Carrol’s explanation What about Wren’s explanation What about the players explanation What about N8’s What about Lew’s What about McFann’s What about Joe Brave (he had alot of interesting observations What about Braveheart
What about DCbrave man? His posts yesterday were insightful (disclaimer: this is only for those who know sweet Lou’s story on the previous blog).
By PJ
July 7, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
RE: Francoeur…It’s like when you go to the doctor, and he prescribes an antibiotic. You take it a few days, start to feel better, so you stop taking it. Your illness comes back, sometimes worse than before, and it takes longer to heal. Too soon, Jeff. You shoulda taken the full dosage.
By MJM
July 7, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Good luck to Jeff
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
We need to trade Tex and move on.chc4
Umm, move on to what exactly? See, the Braves are a baseball team. They have a half-season or so left. They’re probably going to try to salvage the current season before looking ahead to the next one, since that’s all they do, being a baseball team and all, is play baseball seasons. They can’t move on to college football, you know.
By Cooper
July 7, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
JF back after three days? Not loving this move. A half a season of being a mess and a few days hitting AA pitching means he is right as rain.
I don’t know if Wren should expect folks to buy what he is shoveling.
It has to be injury related, sorry not buying it.
Did the Tigers recall Willis after one or two starts? Come on.
I hope he does well but I expect a dead cat bounce after just three days in the minors.
Perhaps JF is trade bait. Wren wants to show scouts that he is fixed before the break.
It would a horrible thing to do but this is a business after all and Jeff did call out Wren and mgt on how his demotion was handled. Stranger things have happened.
In terms of Holliday let him challenge Chipper for the title while playing for the Braves.
We a AAAA OF at the moment and could use Holliday ever day in LF.
Sorry Diaz you are a great guy but a bench player not a starter.
We have too many platoons as it is plus a rookie heavy rotation that as has been mentioned here will be up n down.
By Choppinmama
July 7, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
*McFann: Congrats to your boy going 3-for-3 in the All Star elections!
From the Braves website -
*”When asked if he’d have interest participating in the State Farm Home Run Derby, McCann said he hadn’t been asked. But he excitedly responded that he’d be interested. Jones indicated that he likely wouldn’t participate.
“The whole thing is that it’s at Yankee Stadium,” said McCann, who looks forward to sharing this experience with his parents, Howie and Sherry. “That’s what makes it better than any of the others.” *
No mention of the new wife joining him and his parents for the greatest event in his 2008 career so far, what’s up with that, McFann? Do you have the true skinny on this hopefully mistaken omission?
Or have you heard if there’s something more important than your husbad’s appearance at his 3rd All-Star game that Mrs. McCann has to see to? Only a death in the immediate family would qualify as a quality excuse.
By Random
July 7, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Nice bluster prattvillenolzfan — but everybody here already knows that “darren” is really you.
Cutie.
By Coach Smith
July 7, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
kirknga
TP has to take heat for the past several years and this year’s PATHETIC batting approach
Too many bad approaches at the plate, bad situational hitting, prolonged slumps, too many POP-OUTS with runners on and 3-0 or 3-1 counts, failing to move runners over, etc…..
Somehow WELLMAN can fix Frenchy in 3 days TP is not helping right now…
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
*Lars Anderson is one of the top prospects in the game. He’s been compared to the James Loney of last year *
So you aren’t denying that he has the same amount of HR’s as Scott Thorman with twice the AB’s that Thorman had?
Again, my point is not who is a good prospect and who isn’t. It’s asking to include major league talent in a trade.
*If the Braves deal Tex and are sellers, they should think about dealing Ohman. *
And what about next season?
How is acquiring more prospects the best option to improve a Braves team that is already young?
I think maybe I must have a different goal. I want to win., not get younger.
Perhaps that’s where the disconnect is; I’m looking at the Braves roster and thinking how to improve it. What could it look like next year that gives us a better chance to win? So with this in mind, if we make a trade, what can we get that makes us better?
Others are looking at it and thinking how do add more potential. Win later, down the road I guess.
By Shaun
July 7, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
kirknga, the problem with that is that every player besides Francoeur, injured players, bench-type players or young players are having pretty good seasons.
The Braves are 3rd in batting average and 3rd in OBP, so their overall approach seems to be pretty good. Their power is down (they are only 7th in SLG) but that’s mostly because Teixeira’s SLG this season is much lower than his career SLG and because of Francoeur. Also, throw Diaz in there as someone who underachieved.
So, if it were everyone, I could understand that Pendleton should take some blame. But McCann is having a big season. Chipper obviously is having one of his best years. Kelly Johnson is hitting like we would expect. Escobar, as well. Blanco is young but he’s posted a quite impressive OBP. Kotsay has probably been a little better than we should have expected, especially considering his back problems.
By Jersey Gil
July 7, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DOB I Post this comment in the other blog. Was a surprise to me to see Gotay yesterday in the Games. His Uncle Julio died last friday, his funeral accordly with the Puerto rico Newspaper is today Monday. I thought that the braves was short in the bench yesterday.
By Murphy
July 7, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Didnt David Wells admit he was either still drunk or very hungover during his no hitter?
By 3trees
July 7, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
DOB - I was lucky enough to be at the Tom Waits show the other night. Really wonderful. The man covers some diverse territory. Very theatrical w/a great set and lights.
There’s a hard core honky tonk band from St. Louis that goes by Doc Ellis. We played with them here in town. Anyway, that’s a cool tune.
I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of the Francoeur re-call, but it doesn’t look good on the surface. Hope yesterday’s game proves a turning point, but I’m in “wait and see” mode (have been for a while). I don’t think there’s enough team in this collection of players.
Go Braves!
By Random
July 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Lew: “Didn’t Doc Ellis come out years later and claim he was on LSD when he pitched the No Hitter?”
Yeah, Lew, that’s what DOB was hinting at/talking around.
Here’s a link to Wikipedia’s version of that and some other Dock Ellis stories.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
sorry, my 3:41 post should’ve said..“scored the 3rd most runs in the NL in 2006 and 2007.”
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
When Jeff Francoeur reclaims his spot in the outfield at the Ted, I hope a spotlight shines down on him. With a mic in hand (and maybe a few tears in his eyes), I can only pray that Frenchy will sing this little Bobby Z. ditty to Braves fans:
Is Your Love in Vain?
By Chop Shop
July 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Heard Brett DeVall (first round draft pick) signed today… any truth to what I heard?
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
It’s like when you go to the doctor, and he prescribes an antibiotic. You take it a few days, start to feel better, so you stop taking it. Your illness comes back, sometimes worse than before, and it takes longer to heal.
Damn, which STD did you have the misfortune of contracting?
By Doug
July 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
should be an interesting west road trip.
BravesInfo
BravesInfo Pre-Series live chat tonight at 9 PM Eastern.
By THB
July 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Kirknga-Also, you talk about Michael Bowden like he’s some other prospect. You said “that other guy doesn’t stand out”. Here are his numbers:
8-4, 2.36 ERA in 18 Games Started. He has 93 K in 99 IP and just 22 BB. He’s 21 years old.
He was selected by baseballamerica as a midseason all star (For all pitchers in any class) right behing our very own Tommy Hanson. He’s held hitters to a .192 BA and striking out almost a batter an inning. He’s actually pretty outstanding.
You’re logic on prospects is out-dated. In today’s baseball world, prospects are power. They land you big name players or your big name players turn into 2 or 3 great players. The new baseball era is all about prospects and drafting, period.
By The Frenchy Joke
July 7, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Olddawg55
Cox/Wren/Shuerholz, et al) knowledge so far exceeds the half-a opionions of the casual observer of the sport that it isn’t even funny to read the second guessing, ranting of the unlearned. Oh well, that’s life, I guess…just seems kinda stupid when you look at it!*
Tell you what seems to be a bit more stupid than that. Buying a ticket and sending a guy who is experiencing epic struggles to spend 3 nights sleeping in a strange bed and then declaring his troubles cured!
So if the chef comes in drunk and burns your steak to a crisp, you choke it down and declare it wonderful because, after all… he is a chef!
By BT
July 7, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
IMO what Frenchy needed more than anything was his confidence back. He actually could have accomplished this with his performance at Mississippi. Initially I was against recalling him so soon but I can see the logic if now he has his head on straight.
By Big Steve
July 7, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Two best things about this weekend 1. The Tom Waits show at the Fox was incredible. 2. Mr. Over rated being sent to Mississippi. Too bad it didn’t last……at least the Tom Waits show still ruled. Maybe the new wife has something to do with his complete and total suckyness.
By Saltywoody
July 7, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
*They can’t move on to college football, you know. *
Actually, it would be pretty sweet if they could. The Braves actually have the makings of a pretty good football team. McCann would be a great center. I’d take Diaz and Corky at guards. Chipper’s probably your QB, assuming he can stay healthy.
Frenchy’s probably an outside linebacker. Tex is your MLB, for sure. Esco’s your running back.
I’d actually like to see the Braves play a game of football against a college team.
Although, I’d guess you’d miss Wickman and Paronto at left and right tackle respectively.
By Coach Smith
July 7, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
For all of you DYING TO TRADE TEX “to get younger” or “fill holes” or “rebuild”
Which “holes” should the Braves fill?
THEY ARE TOOOOO YOUNG ALREADY
Who are what are you trading him for?
RF- Frenchy is 24 and cheap for 3 years
CF- Blanco 24, Kotsay here now, and
Schaefer next year
SS- Escobar 25 and cheap
2ndBase- KJ is 26, Prado is 25 both cheap
C- McCann 24 all-star
3b- Chipper for as long as he wants
SP- Jair Jurgens 22, Campillio 29, JOJO 25, Huddy 31, then Morton
RP- Soriano 27, Gonzo 30, Boyer 27, Acoasta 27, Bennett 27, Moylan 29
So why should they tear down? Who should be replaced? How can they possibly get much younger?
Really and LOGICALLY the Braves’ biggest need is a LEGITIMATE Left Fielder……
…and maybe One more STARTER who can be here for a while (2 starters if Smoltz doesn’t come back or you move Campillio to the pen)
there are also alot of prospects at those positions in our minor leagues so I would argue that the Braves need to keep what the they have and add a couple of ML proven pieces
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I’m not saying anyone is above some blame. For example, is TP in charge of teaching bunting? If he is, then there is certainly some blame due his way.
I’m just saying look at the guy’s body of work as the hitting coach and if you do it’s pretty impressive. It certainly doesn’t suggest a guy who should be fired as some have called for.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 7, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
DC Brave
I knew by mentioning names, I would inevitably leave alot of people out…I was typing names that came to the top of my head…Yes I left you out, along with Many other regulars
Random…
If I hurt your feelings by leaving you out, just say so, no need to take shots at me….No I’m not Darren…
By R1U
July 7, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
YOU NEVER POST MY STUFF SO HERE GOES ANYWAY!!! Shut up and play baseball —-this would have never happened if Frenchie had done his job—-if it was good enough for Mickey Mantle when he stunk up the joint==PUHLEEEEEEZ—-prove yourself Frenchie —-then p$$s all over the Braves…It’s a Professional Sport Dude===not little league!!! You control your destiny—-this is not IBM or GE of the 50s!!!
By anders
July 7, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Do 3 good minor league games really mean that Frenchy has gotten his swing back? Come on, they should have left him there to make sure through the All-Star Break, now he comes back and faces decent pitching with the Dodgers and if he goes in the tank what then. Also are the two draft picks for losing Tex going to be enough or should they look at trading him. I know it sounds like giving up but if the Red Sox want him and pony up players, Ellsbury, Bucholz, etc… I say so it.
By THB
July 7, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Kirknga-I see your point. However, I don’t think looking at Anderson’s power totals right now are important, especially because he’s 20 and Thorman is much older.
The problem with fixing for next year is that if we don’t sign Tex we’re left with 2 draft picks…meaning high school players that won’t help til 2012 earliest. Getting prospects in AA or High-A will help in 09 and 10.
I read you were asking about Kotchman. But what about his homerun totals? 7 I believe? I’d rater have Loney just because I’ve watched him play more but both are good potential first basemen. But then what else do we get if we ask for a major league player? A low prospect? Then we only replace Tex with less power, therefore not making the team better.
I guess my point is that we won’t get more than one major league ready player in any deal for Tex. I’d rather get some studs in AA than one player or draft picks. We’ve got a lot to replace next year. I don’t think next year is a breakout year either. Our guys we have now will have to step up big next year. I see 2010 being a good year though.
By TK
July 7, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
No way of knowing. But, I wonder if Jeff had signed a contract like Brian did. If he would have been more relaxed? Instead of wanting to prove he is a All-Star type player and putting so much pressure on himself.
By Ron Roberts
July 7, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Random that’s why I think Chipper Jones will/would make one hell of a MLB manager.
Smallball is something I can’t remember a Bobby Cox-managed team doing, even when the talent on the roster called for it.
I’m usually a very supportive Cox fan, but if there’s one place where a guy like LaRussa shines, it’s in taking what’s on the roster and making it work no matter what their skills are.
We don’t seem to adjust to proficiencies and deficiencies the same way, in my opinion. When we have trouble scoring, or have a run of 1-run losses, I don’t see us trying to steal bases, rattle pitchers, bunting, etc. I’m not saying we never do it, but we don’t do it enough, for certain.
FRANCOEUR… I always hated it when I’d see a kid get rightly punished for something, then let off the hook early. No kid ever learns their lesson from that. I hope Jeff’s time with Wellman (who’s thrown a pretty good tantrum or two himself, let’s remember) got his mind right, but I can’t help but wonder what the team’s chemistry will be like.
I know this; I’m betting an older, wiser Larry Wayne Jones will be having a good sit-down with the malcontent. And he’d better, ‘cause I can’t imagine Frenchy’s exactly put himself in a good light in the eyes of Bobby Cox. BC doesn’t usually react well to such displays of discontent.
I, too, frankly, wonder why not recall Diaz? Any insight on that, DO’B?
By Kevin C
July 7, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
From Rob Neyer’s ESPN blog
Three days: Are you kidding me? Nothing’s happened in three days since Robert Redford uncovered a CIA conspiracy.
As I wrote last week, the evidence at hand suggests that Francoeur has been hitting in terrible luck this season, and of course the only cure for that malady is time. Now that he’s back, he’ll get that time, his numbers will improve, and the front office will pat itself on the back and say, “See? We knew exactly what we were doing.”
Maybe. But right now the front office just looks foolish. But let’s not make too much of this. Reading Francoeur’s quote, he doesn’t say the Braves betrayed him; he says he felt betrayed, and that really is a distinction with a difference. He’ll start hitting soon, and he’ll get over this strange turn of events. When the story of Francoeur’s career is someday written, this will be just a tiny blip, discovered only by a careful biographer.
Still, his three-day trip to the minors suggests to a fundamental inability to understand what was really happening, both on the field and inside Francoeur’s mind.
By Run Heap Run!
July 7, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Golden Boy is flying commercial! No way! :)
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith
You didn’t answer my question!
Isn’t it fair to not only give heat but to recognize the complete record?
I’ve given you what the Braves have done under as hitting coach, I challenge you to show us how in any way it’s “pathetic”. Back it up!
By bravos2249
July 7, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I thought ajc or someone else had posted that Jeff used Smoltz’s plane?
Guess he can’t get it to LA…lol
seriously…like that didn’t make his ego any bigger…going to Double A on a private plane.
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle will get some serious Hall of Fame consideration off this season ……
But, seriously, it’s real nice to see him keep fighting. Dude’s a fighter
By Efrim
July 7, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
kirknga
Btw, are you serious about those two BoSox prospects? That Anderson kid had 11 Hr’s in 494 ab’s, Scott Thorman had 11 hr’s last year in only 287 ab’s. It says on the BoSox website that he “compares to James Loney”. My point is that it is better to get Loney than the guy in the minors who they think can be like him. The other guy doesn’t stand out as being better than several of the prospects already in the Braves’ system.
What the hell are you talking about? Lars Anderson has posted a .505 SLG percentage in the minors this season. He has 11 home runs in 284 at bats. He is playing in High A as a 20 year old. He was ranked as the Red Sox #3 prospect behind Clay Bucholz and Jacoby Ellsbury before this season. That’s after he posted 11 homers in 494 at bats last season. He certainly has done nothing to hurt his stock after posting a .916 OPS through 281 at bats this season, albeit in a hitters paradise like Lancaster. Who the heck knows if he will be as good as James Loney? You act like Loney is an offensive force anyways. He isn’t. He might turn into one at some point, but how do you know that?
All that said, do you really think the Dodgers are going to part with Loney and then some for 2 months of Tex?
And what is so wrong with acquiring prospects like Anderson and then trading them later on this offseason for more proven talent? Should we not of required Detroit to throw in Gorkys Hernandez with Jair Jurrjens? Can Gorkys be traded for some more proven talent?
Let me guess, you’re one of these guys that would trade the farm for a guy like Jason Bay?
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, Resop certainly hasn’t been better than Yates and the Braves haven’t missed either of them. But the part of the whole situation that has been favorable for the Braves, albeit those from Mississippi, has been Todd Redmond, the 23-year old RHP acquired from Pittsburgh for Yates. The Southern League All-Star’s season line thus far: 7-4, 3.60 ERA, 86 K, 18 BB in 110 IP over 18 starts. Todd Redmond’s MiLB.com Page
Also, did you ever give us Kotsay’s thoughts on Tommy Hanson? If so, where can I find it? Thanks!
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
*You’re logic on prospects is out-dated. In today’s baseball world, prospects are power. *
Shouldn’t you acknowledge that is Ken Rosenthals quote and not your own? Outdated? Huh? Did you not read my comments where I stated that the Braves have done it the right way in using their farm system? Did I not point that out? Is that outdated?
Anyway, as I said, my point was not about who is a good prospect and who isn’t. I look at Michael Bowden and believe that he doesn’t stand out as that much better than what the Braves have in their system already. You yourself brought up Hanson which is the point I was making.
Anyway, again, all I said was, in the event of a Tex trade, I would ask to include major league talent!
That’s it, insist on major league talent, not minor league talent, as the centerpiece of a trade. Coach Smith did a great job of fleshing out the point even further.
So what’s the problem with that?
By flange1
July 7, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
DOB,
When are you going to give us YOUR thoughts on the Frenchy yo-yo and his comments?
By Random
July 7, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody: “Actually, it would be pretty sweet if they could [move on to college football]. The Braves actually have the makings of a pretty good football team.
Yeah, especially if were touch football — they’ve already perfected their “Three Mississippi” count before releasing their DE.
By Parkview grad
July 7, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Jeff is a very mentally player. When he has a couple bad games and people starting booing him that really affects him. He simply had to get away to a place and people that would welcome him and give him the chance to get his head right again. Yall have to remember he is just a kid, only 24 years old and he needs Atlanta’s support!
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Just arrived, as a jerk I’m saddened and tremendously hurt!
Shamus, I never really considered you to be a jerk, although you sometimes play one on the internet. :-)
By Ed Glennon
July 7, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
What is more useful, a third nipple or Corky Miller?
By DCbrave
July 7, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
prattvillenolzfan - I knew by mentioning names, I would inevitably leave alot of people out…I was typing names that came to the top of my head…Yes I left you out, along with Many other regulars
Relax, man. I was absolutely just joking — you obviously forgot about or did not know about Sweet Lou’s story yesterday but Random knows.
By steward
July 7, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Golden Boy is flying commercial!
Yes he has a middle seat in the back of coach between an overweight man and a lady with a crying baby.
By Run Heap Run!
July 7, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I guess I’m one of the jerks but you see I had no problem with Jeff until I read his comments after the move. And then I thought you know, maybe he was just shocked and that was just word vomit from an angry man. But then he came back the next day with more me me me me me word vomit and by the 2nd night after he got a few hits he came back with “I TOLD YOU SO”. A little humility is always nice from someone making big bucks to PLAY A GAME.
I do hope he shakes the slump and does well, but that’s not because I like him but because I love the Braves.
As far as Heap and the ASG, I’m SURE he’s taking his wife, that’s a given that he probably didn’t think he had to mention.
I’ll be up late tonight cheering them on. Work night be damned. Go Braves!
By Efrim
July 7, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
kirknga
The Brewers just got C.C. Sabathia for minor leaguers that have never seen the major league stage, does that make Cleveland management idiots for accepting a deal that had no proven major league talent like J.J Hardy or Rickie Weeks? I really hope you understand. Cleveland made a smart move for their organizations future. Milwaukee was able to make this move because they had the depth in their system to withstand giving up their top prospect. Don’t underestimate the power of having a deep farm system. I still don’t get that Lars Anderson comment earlier. Are all unproven prospects expendable? Should we trade everyone we have just to get solid major leaguers right now? It is that thought process that gets general managers fired.
By repo man
July 7, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Sure would love to be in clubhouse when Viva La Frenchy walks in and see Bobby give him a big old KISS! Everyones not treated equal.
DOB Welcome back. I’ll shut up now. Go Braves.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Run Heap Run
Golden Boy is flying commercial! No way! :)
Line of the day - Good stuff!
This kind of reminds me of what Micheal did to his brother in law Carl in The Godfather.
Wren: Come on Frenchy, you think I’m gonna leave you down in AA ball and upset our Georgia fan base? No, your punishment is you’re going to have to fly commercial across the country to LA. Just don’t tell me you’ve tried to change your approach at the plate because it insults my intelligence. Now who told you not to change?
Frenchy: It was….TP.
Wren: Good. Now go.
Frenchy: Mr. Wren I can change my…
Wren: Get out of my face!
Cut to Frenchy taking his coach seat on a Delta flight to LA. He turns around and John Schuerholz leans up and says hello from the seat behind him.
You know the rest.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
The problem with fixing for next year is that if we don’t sign Tex we’re left with 2 draft picks
THB, that’s all I was saying. It doesn’t have to be Klotchman, I just threw that out there because someone asked for an example.
All of this trade Tex talk is straight out everyone’s rear end at this point.
As DOB has asked, and no one has answered, “and then what?”
It’s seems so easy to say fire this guy, or trade that guy, do this or do that? But then people fail to connect the dots. They don’t take the next step and explain what next and how their suggestion is an improvement over the present situation.
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama—
First of all, thanks!!
Secondly (regarding his Mrs.): I don’t know. I haven’t heard anything… you’d have to think she’s going (after all, she went last year, and she was only his fiancee then).
Could just be a misprint. Maybe when it gets closer to the Game we’ll find out something.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 7, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
I will agree to disagree with Neyer on that blog post. .234 with a sub .300 OBP in early July isn’t hitting in poor luck. Poor luck would to some extent be explained by a higher OBP. His poor offensive performance is principally due to poor pitch selection - not “hitting his pitch” as Ted Williams would say. His defense has at times looked laxidasical, too. Whether that is because he is injured, part blind, over-tired, or just plain “pressing” is something that only he knows. I’m not willing to write him off as a has-been as some angry bloggers seem to suggest. But to excuse his performance like Neyer does is a bit uninformed, too.
By kdbanks
July 7, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Great song lyrics, but I hate when “No No” is used to refer to a no hitter that includes walks, hit batsmen, etc. “No No” is short hand for “No hits, No walks.” So Doc threw a no-hitter, but not a “No No.”
Perfect games are “No No’s”. Not just a no-hitter.
Or am I tripping?
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Francoeur’s agent: “Although it was something that upset him, he went down there and did what he needed to do and proved where he belongs.”
Hmm….538 AVG in AA, .234 AVG in the Bigs…Sounds like she means he belongs in AA…
By Tim
July 7, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
I’m glad he is back but what are the Braves thinking? Jeff is in a slump but Corky Miller is batting .093, yes .093. He should be demoted to little league.
By jeanE
July 7, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Why’d they even bother to send him down if it was going to be for such a short time?? You can’t tell me he straightened himself out in only 3 days, it took alot longer for him to get that bad! This just makes the team look silly, all that hullabaloo over what turned out to be nothing. Unless if was just to show him that he was not above being demoted. Whatever, I was very glad to see them win that marathon, they usually NEVER win those games, so I was surpised they pulled it out! Hats off to Texiera, who by the way, you can still trade. Hard to say what will happen on the left coast but I’m not expecting much, a win here & there followed by their usual inconsistency! Congrats to Chipper & B. Mac, they deserve the all-star nods.
By Gerald Barnes
July 7, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Recalling Francoeur for tonight’s game will prove to be a good move. Glad we had a chance to see Jason Perry over the weekend. Suggest everyone take a copy of The Road to the Big’s to read at the beach (or pool). Google: roadtothebigs
By prattvillenolzfan
July 7, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
DC Brave
I know you were joking, but it seemed like I struck a nerve w/ Random….
Although Random that 3 Mississippi crack was pretty good…………..
By Gerald Barnes
July 7, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Recalling Francoeur for tonight’s game will prove to be a good move. Glad we had a chance to see Jason Perry over the weekend. Suggest everyone take a copy of The Road to the Big’s to read at the beach (or pool). Google: roadtothebigs
By weston
July 7, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Damn, I was looking forward to seeing Frenchy in Jax tomorrow night.
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
BT Good comment about Frenchy’s confidence. I also think he’s spent the entire season trying to be someone other than Jeff Francouer. I think Wellman’s advice was just what he needed.
TK Good point! Maybe if he’d signed a contract he wouldn’t have been thinking at the plate when he should have been hitting.
Kevin C Thanks for posting Neyers comments. It’s nice that someone can keep perspective about Frenchy’s comments instead of blowing them up into some major temper tantrum like a number bloggers have. The kid was disappointed and said so. I think he was wrong, but my god, he wasn’t acting like Barry Bonds either.
By JRJ
July 7, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Two things. First, for all of you Frenchy bashers, what is it you want the kid to do? You say send him down to the minors. He goes down and in three days gets 7 hits in 13 ABs. But, that’s not good enough for some of you. I guess he also has to sell hot dogs, re-paint the stadium and play all nine positions at once. What did you really expect him to do in the minors?
As for the Trade Tex crowd, what if we do? Who will play first for us? Norton? Scott Thorman? I thought we tried that last year and decided we just HAD to have Tex? Here’s a thought! Why don’t we keep Tex and let him do what he’s supposed to do batting behind Chipper? Kind of radical, I know. But, when you trade away some of your better hitters, and hitting is where we are having such a hard time this season, you basically are going in a circle.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
anders
Not sure if you’re trying to post under my name in that 4:14 post or you’re just another guy named Anders. If it was the former than you blew it using the small a. Everyone on here knows I’m a big A. Right guys? Matter of fact I’ve been told I’m the biggest A on here.
If it was the latter then well… I have a feeling it’s gonna be a long summer of defending my name.
By Scotty
July 7, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves management did the right thing by sending Jeff to the minors instead of making him sit on the bench for several games in the majors. It allowed him to try a few mechanic changes in his swing without the pressure. It kept him fresh. Of course, AA pitching is not the big leagues but he proved he can hit the ball well and maybe he’s got back at least an ounce of confidence. He is talking of “betrayal” now. Ok Jeff, you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
The Brewers just got C.C. Sabathia for minor leaguers that have never seen the major league stage, does that make Cleveland management idiots for accepting a deal that had no proven major league talent like J.J Hardy or Rickie Weeks? I really hope you understand.
If you would read my posts from the previous blog, I was about the only one who cared to comment about the trade and I said I thought the Indians could’ve gotten more for last season’s Cy Young winner.
I will note that Rosenthal said that the Brewers were perfectly ok with letting Sheets and Sabathia walk this offseason, as a fan how would you feel about that? I know I would think that sux’d. You think they are comforted by those draft picks or do they want to win?
And why are you using the Brewers as some kind of model? When was the last time they went to the playoffs?
The point again, which you still have answered, is what is the problem with working with major league talent in a trade instead of minor league talent only?
That’s like the 3rd time I’ve asked you, I’ve answered your questions, could you please answer mine?
By stamper
July 7, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
DOB- Fleet Foxes were brilliant at The Drunken Unicorn on Saturday night. All of the guys were suffering from the flu, yet they still managed to sound amazing… They also were cool enough to humor one particularly annoying fan who obviously had a few too many PBRs. Great time. After the show, I asked them about their interests in doing ANY of next year’s festivals - they said they may do one or two… or they might not do any as they’ve already planned on working on yet another album for release next fall. Pretty cool stuff.
By Run Heap Run!
July 7, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
McFann
The article doesn’t say anything about Chipper taking his wife either, just a comment about taking his folks and you KNOW Chipper wouldn’t want to leave his wife at home. :)
By Random
July 7, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
I notice that Francoeur has not posted on his own blog since 25 Jun.
Also saw this great quote from Chipper in regard to Thursday night when Francoeur was informed of the decision:
“It was a tough night last night in more ways than one,” said Jones, referring also to the final loss of a three-game sweep by the division-leading Phillies. “It’s not quite as extreme as your kid brother being traded, but it had the same effect because it came out of left field.”
Hahaha, that Chipper — what a kidder! He knows Jeff plays right field.
Ron Roberts: “that’s why I think Chipper Jones will/would make one hell of a MLB manager.”
I agree completely. And before that, if he can successfully communicate his phenomenal batting knowledge, he’d be a great Hitting Coach. (And Greg Maddux would make probably a great Pitching Coach. I think both Jones and Maddux will stay in the game after they retire as players. Glavine and Smoltz, not so much. They both have other facets to their lives.)
prattvillenolzfan — just funnin’ witcha.
;->
By AZBravoFan
July 7, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Interesting quotes from Chipper. I have to completely agree. I feel bad for the guy. He’s finally reached a point in his career where he GETS it. And his team is crumbling around him. Outside of McCann and maybe Escobar, I don’t see anyone with the drive and the consistent approach that Chipper has. But now it’s time for him to lead. If Bobby’s not doing it, Chipper’s gotta be the one to knock some heads like he used to with LaRoche. He’s gotta be vocal, he’s gotta call guys out. Ever since he had that little verbal spar with Smoltzie, he’s been a monster on the field. He had to continue to be the man and accept nothing less from his teammates. Too bad he didn’t have this attitude earlier in his career (say ‘96-98). Could have used some of that in those lineups.
By RedEyedAndBlue
July 7, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Ed Glennon -
Some might say that depends on whether it is on a man or a woman.
What’s happened to the Indians in half a season is quite dramatic. I mean they were within one game of knocking the eventual World Champions out of the ALCS. Now they’re trading away Sabathia. Much has been made of the Indians record being the force behind the early July trade of Sabathia. But I think that the arrival of Cliff Lee as a Cy Young candidate has eased the pain and allowed for that trade to happen as early as it did.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
kdbanks, you are definitely tripping (sort of like Doc was that day, only you are figuratively; he was, literally).
Dude, I’ve never heard anyone say a no-no refers to no hits, no walks. Never, ever heard that.
By doc
July 7, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
dob, someone who produced and worked the brodsky album gave it to me 6 weeks ago. really good troubadour and yes the song about doc is so cool and took me back a few years. the whole album is so fine. my buddy frequents the sekou hawks’ blog but i am sure once he gets a line on the brodsky tune he will be over to promote it a bit more.
has frenchy gotten away with something most dont in this organization, being critical of management? he is now in john smoltz territory but his concerns and criticisms were directed at team competitiveness not his own personal stuff. it will be interesting if frenchy delivers then this tale can be put aside.
By Supes
July 7, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
DOB
Awesome blog, welcome back.
I know you are into music, etc but I have never seen you talk about alternative rock, heavier “stuff”, etc. Well if there is ever a CD that you should check out, if you haven’t…Shinedown “Sound of Madness” is a good one. Again, not sure if that is something you may like, but just thought I’d throw it out here.
As far as Buddy, I agree with you. He’s been excellent in long term relief (more than 1 inning) this season, often keeping the Braves close in those games where the starters gets knocked out early.
Is there any talk or pressure with Chipper now as far as hitting .400 for the season? I see he’s at .388 now, (which is still not that far off), if he goes on a crazy tear this road trip (something like .430 or so for the six west coast games) he’s be right up there again. Although I know it’s not his goal, it may actually cause him to be a bit “defensive” on his swings and not go for more power, is it something that is still in the back of his mind?
If he doesn’t win the batting title this year it’ll be surprising.
Those numbers on Tubbo(sorry, had to do it once) are just scary! Anyone else still p*ssed that the Braves didn’t bring him back? Yeah, I’d rather have Gregor Blanco, Josh Anderson as my CF at this point. It’s truly pathetic, he’s stealing 18 million from the LA Dodgers right now. The fans should boo him (yes Kincade…if your crownies are reading/following/monitoring the blogs, that’s for you!)
Prediction for the road trip…I’m going with 3-3. What it SHOULD be to get the Braves back “in it”…5-1. It would be awesome to win the series against the Dodgers 2-1 and then somehow managed to sweep the Pads (although we’ve got Peavy on Friday…always grim news for this lineup recently manhandled by a reliever on Saturday who throws 88 mph)
Last but not least…I heard/read that 6-4-3 is back, going to be back with the big league team and couldn’t believe it.
First what Frank Wren said on 680thefan this morning…and then back peddling and giving in.
I guess Jeff is “fixed” after 3 games. That’s all it took. So we should send Mike Hampton to Pearl, for 3 games, Diaz gets 3 games there, hell send down Corky for 3 games so Wellman can “fix him too” while we are at it.
Frank Wren’s short Braves career is on the line this season.
The decision with TEX, to be buyers or seller in 2008…and what is going on with Jeff is all going to define him as a GM of the Braves.
Here is the thing…if Jeff comes back (let’s face it…Braves are on the road, if these were home games do you believe he would be back? Yes, I thought so too!) and goes .300 for the roadtrip or better and shows progress in Major League games…Frank is a genious.
however if Jeff comes back and goes 3 for 24 or whatever on this roadtrip, K’s again with RISP, fails to drive in runs in scoring chances…what is Frank going to do then? He’ll have the biggest egg on his face. That’s what will happen.
3 games…against lesser pitching and the guy is “fixed” now? Unreal. I guess so much for Josh Anderson, Brandon Jones or anyone else in the OF. Guys who actually when called up contributed.
Meanwhile…Brent Lillbridge can’t hit his bodyweight and keep being called up. I guess no better offensive options in the minors who are ready?
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Greg O, VERY good point about Redmond. Frankly, I’d forgotten that they got him for Yates.
So you know what? I’ll take back what I said about it being a bad decision. Seriously. I was wrong there.
Oh, and I have the notebook out with Kotsay’s brief comments on Hanson. Ask me once more when I get to the ballpark. Gotta pack and get over there now.
By KC
July 7, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
I have an idea for Corky Miller… how about Bench Coach? Oh we already have one of those? Well then, how about Assistant Bench Coach… or Special Liaison to the Bench coach? Pretty much any title with the word “Bench” in it will work.
I’m not sure how we could upgrade from Corky Miller.
Hmmm… what’s Greg Olsen up to these days? Bruce Benedict? My in-laws have a golden retriever that is between jobs right now. (pretty small strike zone… should reach base a lot more than Corky).
Replace Corky Miller! ANYONE will do!!
By AGTfan
July 7, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
dont have the right? didnt 4th of july mean anything to you? :-) Ok DAP, good point. They have as much right to call themselves Braves fans as I have to call myself the King of England.
Run Heap Run! You must have access to comments I’ve been unable to find. If you could provide a link to all this “word vomit”, I’d appreciate it. Nothing I’ve read sounded all that bad. And by definition of a Braves fan, you don’t have to like the guy, just pull for him if he’s on the team. None of your comments have ever made me consider you a jerk.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
kirknga
The point again, which you still have answered, is what is the problem with working with major league talent in a trade instead of minor league talent only
Because any team that wants Tex for the short haul will not give up a major league player of value. He’s not signed for next year so he’s just a rental which means it’s to a team trying to make a playoff push.
Do you have a scenario where they could trade him for a MLB player of value to the Braves?
I thought the Indians could’ve gotten more for last season’s Cy Young winner.
I think the Indians did better than the Twins did for Santana. Who would you rather have Santana or Sabathia? Sabathia’s a two month rental too, at least Santana was signed through 2008 when the Mets got him.
By Run Heap Run!
July 7, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts
I would think all of Chipper’s young children would be a facet that would keep him out of coaching once he retires. I agree he would be a good one but unless he plays for several more years his boys are still very young and he needs to get to work on coaching them to wear a Braves uni one day. :)
I do think Smoltz will coach or even manage. His kids are older, he’s divorced now, and he loves the game and the clubhouse (not that Chipper doesn’t).
I agree that Glavine probably won’t.
By Scott S.
July 7, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
What would we trade Frenchy for? I like his bat still and think that he now has something to prove!! Mark my words when he leaves us via free agency in a few years you all will be hoping the Braves pony up the cash to keep him!!! He is 24 not 30 and slumping. Lets just root fo our team like fans are supposed to! Go Braves and welcome back Frenchy! Let’s get back to winning this division!! While I am at it I will be the first Hampton hater to say that he will certainly help once he gets back!!!
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Stamper, we live in a great live-music town, and Saturday night was just another example — Fleet Foxes playing just down Ponce de Leon from where Tom Waits was playing (at the Fox), not to mention several other shows around town that night.
By Efrim
July 7, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
kirknga
If you would read my posts from the previous blog, I was about the only one who cared to comment about the trade and I said I thought the Indians could’ve gotten more for last season’s Cy Young winner.
They probably could of gotten one more impact prospect. Prospect. No one us trading a regular that is worth anything for 2 months of a player unless they intend to sign him. Not so sure you can count on Milwaukee resigning Sabathia. They will take the two draft picks and move on. Intelligent Brewer fans will understand that drafting well is the key to long term success. So the two draft picks they get from Sabathia signing elsewhere might help in the long term, and oh yea, they got one of the best 5 pitchers in the game for their stretch run.
The point again, which you still have answered, is what is the problem with working with major league talent in a trade instead of minor league talent only?
Well, it all depends on the major league talent coming our way, doesn’t it? Casey Kotchman? James Loney? I suppose it is all preference. I’m just not quite sure why those teams would offer estalbished major leaguers for 2 months of a Boras client. Why not get some top prospects for him? Maybe you can spin those prospects for major league talent this offseason, where I am sure more players will be available.
Now that I answered your question, why did you post Lars Anderson’s stats from last year and completely neglect this years statistics? He has a 918 OPS through 284 at bats as a 20 year old in High A. Not bad, right?
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Francoeur probably won’t be here until about 8 p.m. west coast, so I’d not expect him to play tonight unless pinch-hit late. Even that would be pushing it, getting from airport and all in this city.
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Frenchy Fredo: I’m the first round pick, Mac, and I was stepped over!
Brian McCannleone: That’s the way Wren wanted it.
Fredo Frenchy: It ain’t the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I’m smart! Not like everybody says… like dumb… I’m smart and I want respect!
Brian McCannleone: Fredo, er, Frenchy, you’re nothing to me now. You’re not a teammate, you’re not a friend, you’re a minor leaguer. I don’t want to know you or what you do. I don’t want to see you at the hotels, I don’t want you near my stadium. When you see our hitting coach, I want to know a day in advance, so I won’t be there. You understand?
By KC
July 7, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Sabathia trade both good news and bad news for the Braves.
Bad News: This move means the Wild Card will probably come from the Central division this year. We’re further out of the Wild Card than we are in the East, and would probably have to overtake a better team (either the Cubs or Brewers) to win the WC… so that’s most likely out of reach.
Also, we have a few game left against Milwaukee, so we may have to face Sabathia later in the season.
Good News: The Phillies didn’t get him, and neither did the Mets.
Also, this was the opening salvo for the trade season… and the sooner the Braves can add a bat and one more arm for the pen, the better!
By Paddy McGillicutty
July 7, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Just to let all the people pining for a trade of Tex to LAA involving Casey Kotchman, you are aware the Angels nixed that idea last year, correct? What makes everyone think that LAA would do that trade now, where they’d get Tex guaranteed for 2 months when they wouldn’t do it w/ him guaranteed for an extra year last July?
Sorry guys, I think our best bet, aside from righting the ship obviously, is Ortiz being out a while longer & trading him to BOS and hope FW, JS can wrangle Jon Lester from the Sawx. Btw, I may be one of the few left that thinks we’ll keep Tex & resign him. Laugh all you may, all my friends, family thought I was an idiot for thinking Les Miles was going to stay w/ the 2007 BCS National Champs (that’s LSU for all you UGA-ites out there—sorry, ain’t happenin for yall this year either) and low and behold, CLM stayed…
By StingerSplash
July 7, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Come on, folks, leave Frenchy’s bride out of it. You don’t hear anyone saying dating a Penthouse Pet put Clay Buchholz back in Pawtucket do you? DOB, when you were looking down at the pool, did you mean 20 denizens or 20 angels or is this a reference that is merely escaping me?
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Bobby should be allowed to horse-whip Stenchy after a strikeout…
By RjBlulack
July 7, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Cleveland is 14 games back in their division. The Braves 6 back. That’s quite a difference. Even though the Braves are only six back, I would only give them a couple of weeks after the all-star break. If they are still six or more back and show no signs of being capable of turning this around and playing like winners instead of a bi-polar team, I trade Tex.
It’s bull to say that a couple of draft choices are as valuable as close to MLB ready prospects. Draft choices have no professional track record. Guys who are close to ready at least have pro experience with a better indication of their potential. Besides, the Braves draft high school kids and babies. Those guys generally aren’t in the bigs for a few years, if ever.
Cleveland may already be 14 games back making it easier for them to pull the trigger, but they recognized they weren’t going to be able to re-sign C.C. so they did the smart thing. I hope the Braves are smart enough to move Tex if they aren’t showing signs of consistentcy by the trade deadline.
By repo man
July 7, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Weston I was looking forward to seeing JF in Jax, Fla. I’ll just enjoy the beach.
I believe Jeff will be a better person and player for his 74 hours in AA. Simple=He now knows what can happen when you don’t perform. He knows he’s not above the rules.All we really want is for the Braves to win. I pray JF understands the Team comes first and helps Braves win. Now have at it.
By Mr. Wright
July 7, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Hey Frenchy, maybe the Braves felt a little betrayed that they stuck you out there every day and you couldn’t hit a lick.
By who cares
July 7, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
The braves are a joke. This a a .500 team the past 3 years now, and not many .500 teams make the playoffs.The front office is showing how desperate they are by bringing frenchy back up. He didn’t become a patient hitter in 3 games, nor did he suddenly improve his swing that is full of holes in 3 days. But it’s not frenchy’s fault this team is so awful. It’s the pitching, the hitting, and the over the hill manager. Sad thing is, this will be a .500 team for many years to come. After Tex is gone, and Chipper retires, we will be back to the future. 1980 style
By Braves20
July 7, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Like another blogger, have to assume Diaz is not physically ready thus Frenchy because we desperately need to get more balance in our lefty heavy lineup.
Today’s trade makes you hope you’ll miss C.C.’s turn when the Brewers come to Atlanta later. We’ve always had trouble with them at home - at least the games I’ve attended. Think I’m 0 for life versus the Brewers at the Ted. Their visit however will be offset by us getting the Rockies a few weeks later - a team that had all their career years last year.
By Random
July 7, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Run Heap Run!: “I do think Smoltz will coach or even manage… he loves the game and the clubhouse (not that Chipper doesn’t).”
Gotta disagree. Shoulder willing, expect to see Smoltz putting in a serious bid to make it on the PGA Seniors (or “Champions”) Tour after he’s finished pitching.
Also, I don’t think Smoltz has the patience to put up with other people — a desired quality in a coach or manager.
By Mike S
July 7, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Haha. Love the Godfather quotes, Braveheart. Hilarious!
By LT-AA Blogger
July 7, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
At minimum, I think the Braves gotta go at least 4-2 next two series. Franceour coming back so soon is a bit of a surprise. Hopefully, the short vacation gave him a few days to decompress. This line up is in desperate need for him to start hitting.
Yesterdays marathon brought back some seriously bad memories of the 2005 18 inning debacle. After that game, I remember lamenting it would carry over until 2006 and the streak was over. Hopefully, yesterdays win reversed the curse and we have come full circle (both games had quite a few similarites).
By KC
July 7, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
I’m sure something else that factored into Frenchy’s quick return is the fact that Perry isn’t exactly Frenchy in right field… and he couldn’t hit a lefty with a sawed off shotgun.
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
What if they brought Jeff up in order to trade him? Folks who believe it’s because he found his swing after 2-AA-games are not delusional, they’re psychotic.
By geauxbraves2000
July 7, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Tommy Lasorda said once, (paraphrasing), basically, you’ll become good when “you start playing for the name on the front of your jersey instead of the name on the back of it.”
Geaux Braves!!
By Random
July 7, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Paddy McGillicutty: “Sorry guys, I think our best bet, aside from righting the ship obviously, is Ortiz being out a while longer & trading him to BOS and hope FW, JS can wrangle Jon Lester from the Sawx.”
You know, Francoeur and the Bosox previously had a mutual interest. Boston was planning to draft him before the Braves cut in line in front of them. Maybe a package deal? (But see PS.)
PS: “Btw, I may be one of the few left that thinks we’ll keep Tex & resign him.”
You know, I’ve had that in the back of my mind too, ever since I read that SportsBiz article about Liberty Media’s plans for the Braves. We’ll see.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
True, Random. I temporarily forgot about Smoltzy’s PGA aspirations. Too bad for us.
Dude way up who wanted the Frenchy comments. Hang on. I’ll find them.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Great 5:13 post.
I love that Fredo scene. Especially the way he say’s “I’m Smart!”
Well, all that’s left is for Wren to pick the day he settles all family business. They release Smoltz and Glavine. Trade Tex, Frenchy and Kotsay. Get Soriano to admit he had a bad wing when he signed that two year deal then whack him (sorry, couldn’t resist that one).
All the while Wren’s having barbecue with DOB in downtown Atlanta with some good old country blues music playing over the scene.
By repo man
July 7, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
KIRKNGA…Sure your not the orignal Shane?
I would like to see the Braves try to sign Tex. If Boras and Tex refused in next few weeks then see what you can get. ESPN today said, 4 or 5 teams would be after him (Tex).Better than 2 picks.
By brave in chucktown
July 7, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Why don’t they just bring Frenchy in by helicoptor? Didn’t they do that with Deion Sanders years ago? Or better yet, maybe Delta will make him jump out of the plane with a giant Delta logo on his parachute to make up for his endorsement value going down so much. The possibilities are endless!
By KC
July 7, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Shamus Thacker: Francoeur, in my opinion (and I believe in the opinion of the Braves front office/coaches), didn’t really need to find his swing… he just needed to get his head right.
When you go into a slump like that, it’s usually entirely mental. Years of muscle memory didn’t disappear in an instant, and there is no injury causing his problems… so the issues were between his ears.
I think the Braves felt Jeff just needed to hit the mental reset button. Was a few days enough? Your guess is as good as mine. We’ll find out soon enough. But I honestly don’t think he needed to relearn anything or find his swing. Just needed to get his head right.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Thanks for answering.
You said that no one is trading a regular that is worth anything… well how do you know that? It seems to me that the Indians didn’t want any salary , but they did want a cornerOF with power.
Look, I don’t hate Anderson or anything, I just looked up his stats and saw that last season he had 11 Hr’s in 400+ AB’s. I then saw that Thorman had the same amount in 1/2 as many AB’s. It stuck in my mind because the Braves need power. I never said either prospect wasn’t a good one.
I just think I would ask for Loney before I ask for someone who may become like Loney, does that make sense?
Because any team that wants Tex for the short haul will not give up a major league player of value. He’s not signed for next year so he’s just a rental which means it’s to a team trying to make a playoff push. Anders
How do you know that? If you can tell me what your source is I’ll be happy to modify my point if what you say is a known fact.
Again, ask for major league talent. Not all teams would be trading for him for the short term. New York, Baltimore, for example have both been mentioned as possible destinations should he not sign with the Braves. So to say that any one trading for him now would only be as a rental is false. Any team with deep pockets and a need at first base cannot be automatically written off as taking Tex as “2-month rental”
Do you have a scenario where they could trade him for a MLB player of value to the Braves?
A Baltimore trade could go something like… Guthrie, Huff, and a top OF prospect. A Yankee trade could go Abreau, Chamberlin, and a Ist base prospect.
There could be other teams as well. How about The ChiSox, Thome’s a free agent after this season, their GM is aggressive and creative and they have money to spend. There are other teams as well, the Angels, or Seattle where Sexton’s deal is up, whoever.
There is also the possibility of a multi-team trade as well. To say that getting back major league talent in a trade for Tex is impossible, is not correct in my opinion.
*Who would you rather have Santana or Sabathia? *
I’ll take both thanks. I’ve been calling for the Braves to get in on a Sabathia deal for some time now soo.
Again, none of you have said how what you are saying improves the Braves. Does Lars Anderson help us? I don’t know.
I think the Braves are better off keeping Tex for the season, unless he signals that he will not sign here under any circumstance.
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
kirknga, if you trade Tex before the deadline, then you have something closer to major-league ready talent than you have if you hold onto him and get two draft picks (the first of which, by MLB rule, cannot be among the first 15 selections). The Sabathia deal is a perfect example. The Indians got a guy in Matt LaPorta who has proven he’s far more than AA talent. The seventh overall pick in 2007, he’s hit 20 home runs, driven in 66 runs, and scored 56 runs in 84 games in the Southern League. There’s been talk that he’ll be called up now/soon by the Indians. Take that and add the three other minor leaguers Cleveland got and I like the deal on their part. In relation to the Braves, Wren got Jair Jurrjens (major-league ready) and Gorkys Hernandez (high-level prospect) for Edgar Renteria (one year left on contract at the time). I think Wren could get at least that type of deal for Teixeira (half season left on contract). If, on July 31, the Braves are in no better position in the standings than today, I say see what they can get for a guy who’d put up great numbers on a team that wouldn’t make the playoffs anyway (remember, they’re six games out, but it’s made much more difficult having to pass three teams). Personally, I’m sick of the Braves giving up high-potential prospects (i.e. Max Ramirez for Bob Wickman, Kyle Davies for Octavio Dotel, the five Texas prospects for Tex) and not getting to the playoffs with the “prized” major leaguers acquired. Let’s take the Indians’ approach. This isn’t the first time they went in this direction… anybody remember when the Indians’ brass got “mix master” Omar Minaya to cough up then-Expos prospects Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee for Bartolo Colon in the latter’s free agent walk year? I’d say that’s worked out pretty well for them. Again, the disclaimer here is assuming the Braves are still six games back with three teams and two months left ahead of them.
By braves 70
July 7, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, enjoyed the Doc Ellis bit. He would have been one wild man for you to cover. I remember him admitting that he took LSD before one start in which he purposely hit the first three Cincinnati Reds batters because he was tired of the Pirates losing to the Reds.
This Francoeur thing is downright stupid. Either the guy never should have been sent down or he should have stayed there and worked on his hitting. The Braves have made a bad situation worse, IMO. Francoeur returns with the same batting problems and with a new chip on his shoulder for being sent down in the first place. I cannot believe that JS would have pulled a stupid move like Wren did.
By Carl Jr
July 7, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Imagine it’s the seventh game of the World Series, bottom of the ninth, Braves down by one run, two out, runners on second and third with Manny Acosta scheduled to hit. The only two position players available to PH are Corky and Lillibridge. Do you use one of them or send up Jorge Campillo?
I guess that’s not a fair question. With first base open, the other team could walk Campillo in order to pitch to Corky.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Told you this morning that Flash Gordon looked gassed against the Mets. Phils put him on the DL for his elbow. I’m telling you their pitching will pay the price for that little league park they play in. For every offensive MVP they get they’ll have two starters with 4.5 + ERA’s and an exhausted staff.
That said, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m worried about Pedro pitching in there tonight. He has plenty of stuff on his pitches but they aren’t dancing like they used to. Not sure if it’s because he hasn’t pitched much or what. He is throwing 89 to 94 so strength hasn’t been the issue. Plenty humid which usually helps him.We’ll see tonight.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
“After three years, after playing hurt, playing every day, going in every day whether I got a hit and never complaining, I just played because Bobby [Cox] kept putting me in the lineup,” Francoeur told the newspaper. “But I just felt like a little three-minute thing — ‘Hey, you’re going down’ — I feel like after three years, I was owed a little more of an explanation. But that’s Frank’s deal and that’s what I guess they decided to do.”
“My question is, what if I had hit a home run or had two hits [Thursday night]? Does it delay it one day, until I was 0-for-4? I was left standing outside in the dark on that. You almost felt like they had made [their minds] up before the game. That’s where I felt frustrated, where I felt a little betrayed,”
“I felt so relaxed [at the plate Friday], but I felt really relaxed [Thursday],” Francoeur said. “And I told Frank that in the meeting. I feel good, I felt comfortable and really feel like I was that close to busting out. * I think I showed [Friday night] I was kind of right. I don’t think coming and the atmosphere was the reason I got two hits.”*
Are you kidding me? Those hacks in the Phillies series were the worst swings I’ve ever seen him take. And he thought he was on the verge of busting out??! And “I was kinda right” after getting 2 hits vs AA pitching? Please! Get over yourself!
*”I love playing for the city. I love playing for the fans and always have,” said Francoeur, who grew up in Gwinnett County. “But I’m disappointed with the decision and how the whole process went down.”
Francoeur said he thought he might have been warned ahead of time what the team was considering. He said Thursday’s conversation — which lasted maybe five minutes — came as a surprise to him after he had played nearly every day for three seasons.*
Warn him ahead of time? So he can choke more? And again, publicly questioning your manager and GM? Not a smart thing to do there, grasshopper.
“I do not agree with this, but I have to do what I have to do,”
“This has put a damper on my relationship with the Braves,”
I’m not alone in reading these comments and thinking what a bratty, entitled, brat he acted like when he could have just said “I’m disappointed but I’m going to get out there and get straightened out so I can come back and help MY TEAM” He never once mentioned the team, instead his whole attitude reeked of a petulant child. Brett Myers is one of the biggest jerks in baseball but even he handled being demoted better than Frenchy did (at least publicly, which is all that matters). Jeff’s attitude of ‘how dare they!’ and ‘I’ll prove them wrong’ and especially the words “that’s Frank’s deal” and “I was kinda right” were the comments I was referring to. And I definitely was not alone in my thinking.
Hope the kid works it out but man, he’s not very likable right now in my book. Not that that means a hill of beans.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
KIRKNGA…Sure your not the orignal Shane?
What are trying to say repo man?
I’ve been me since the AJC started adding blogs to the Sports section.
Oddly enough I agree with your position on Tex, unless he signals he’s not signing under any circumstance, or that Boras is going to want $25 million/year, then I don’t trade him.
The Braves are a better team with him than without, it’s really just that simple for me. I liked to see him signed and the Braves go get Sabathia or Sheets and then acquire a stud bat using whatever prospects it takes. I’d also resign Glavine or Hampton if they are healthy and have strong second halves.
I believe these are more plausible scenarios to better the team than just getting two or three more prospects.
By Canuckbravesfan
July 7, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
DOB—interesting to hear your mention of Chuck Brodsky and printing the lyrics to the Doc Ellis song. I heard Chuck at a music festival out here on the island two years ago and bought the CD of his baseball songs—really have enjoyed listening to it. The good news is that Chuck is appearing here on Vancouver Island this weekend and I will be there. Thanks for mentioning Chuck and I recommend his music to anyone who likes mellow, easy to listen to folksy stuff.
By b-don
July 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
If Frenchy can come out raking, I think we need to get on the major league coaching staff in some capacity next year.
I can’t wait to see him lobbing rosin bag grenades at the umpires while Bobby goes out to argue
By Poker Face
July 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Poker is a game of determining risk/reward. You won’t win every hand, but the object is to walk away at the end of the night with more chips than you came with. I’m not a Kenny Rogers fan (singer not baseball player) but as the song says, “gotta know when to hold’em, know when to fold’em.”
I would love to play poker with some of the bloggers here. Six games out, no sign of playing consistent. The team has yet to give any indication of playing consistent or fundamental baseball on a steady basis.
Asking for the Braves to become buyers based on the teams performance thus far is like going “all in” trying to draw to an inside straight. In other poker terms, the odds of being successful are slim to none.
The bloggers who suggest the Braves become buyers are talking with their hearts and not their heads.
By Chop Shop
July 7, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Here’s a link about Braves’ first round draft pick Brett DeVall signing contract… (http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/devall9248_article.html/firstniceville.html)
By East Cobb Matt
July 7, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
I’m a Francouer fan, no doubt, but after the way he blasted the organization, he should have been made to stay the entire ten days. You don’t publicly call out your organization, an organization you’ve wanted to play for your entire life like he did.
By Anders
July 7, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
kirknga
So to say that any one trading for him now would only be as a rental is false.
No it’s not. He’s a free agent after this year - period. That’s the industry standard definition of a “rental player” in sports.Unless you can sign him as part of the trade - doubtful.
A Yankee trade could go Abreau, Chamberlin, and a Ist base prospect.
What? You don’t want A-Rod too? Come on. Joba? You’re lost on player values I’m afraid.
I’ll take both thanks. I’ve been calling for the Braves to get in on a Sabathia deal for some time now soo.
That wasn’t one of your options. You completely avoided the point.
I think the Braves are better off keeping Tex for the season, unless he signals that he will not sign here under any circumstance.
I’ll keep an eye on his blinking patterns when he’s at bat for a signal but I need to warn you that my morse code is a little rusty.
By Lew
July 7, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
Murphy-Maybe so, but I’m betting it’s harder to pitch on acid than hung over. Let’s just say I’m certain of it.
By Chop Shop
July 7, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
** Sorry about that, messed up the link. I’ll just give the address, and you can copy and paste into browser…
Here’s a link about Braves’ first round draft pick Brett DeVall signing contract**
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/devall9248_article.html/firstniceville.html
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Personally, I’m sick of the Braves giving up high-potential prospects (i.e. Max Ramirez for Bob Wickman, Kyle Davies for Octavio Dotel, the five Texas prospects for Tex) and not getting to the playoffs with the “prized” major leaguers acquired.
What are you talking about? The Braves rarely give up “prize prospects”. Adam Wainwright and who else? Kyle Davies was not a “prize prospect”, Max Ramirez, who? Where’s he playing?
None of the players the Braves gave up for Tex would help this ball club. None of them can even start for Texas. Salty hasn’t won a position, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s traded again.
Prospects do not equal major league talent and contribution.
That’s one reason we were talking about getting major league talent in return for major league talent.
Again, I don’t want to trade Tex.
By mwlin
July 7, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
I draw three conclusions from today’s events:
Let’s go Braves.
By flange1
July 7, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
On trading Tex,
I see this as a tough decision. I think the chances the Braves can resign him in the off season in a bidding war with the Yankees and Mets is minimal.
He has made it clear that the next contract IS about money and a chance to win.
If we don’t trade him, we have a chance at the playoffs this year, 2 high draft choices and then have to trade or sign someone new to play 1B.
Has anyone looked at the potential FA 1B out there?
Not a very good crop outside of Tex.
No one in the minors that is ready to play 1B for the Braves.
If we do trade him, we have the chance of a getting HIGHER LEVEL of prospects than the 2 draft choices.
Someone who may be able to help this year.
Someone who may be able to help next year.
Someone who CAN be traded for a piece that can be used this year or next. (remember draft choices cannot be traded)
I see this team as having holes at 1B and LF next year.
SO if you trade Tex who plays 1B this year?
Well, maybe you look into Kevin Millar for this year, if he injects some life into the team sign him for next year.
Look into trading for Ty Wiggenton. I think he would be the perfect guy to back up 1B 3B and 2B for the Braves. Let him play 1B until you find someone better.
I think it will be a tough call, but I don’t think the BRaves have a chance at TEx next year. They will have the money, but I don’t see the Management team spending 20-23 million a year for 6-7 years on 1 guy.
So to me it boils down to WHOM you can get for him NOW or before the deadline VS an attempt to win this year + 2 draft choices.
By the way, what ever happen to Chuck James??????
By TennesseePaul
July 7, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Personally, I’m sick of the Braves giving up high-potential prospects (i.e. Max Ramirez for Bob Wickman, Kyle Davies for Octavio Dotel, the five Texas prospects for Tex) and not getting to the playoffs with the “prized” major leaguers acquired
By this you mean, Maximiliano Ramirez, the 23 year old catcher in AA for the Indians? The 23 Year old catcher that was blocked by a 24 year old 3 time all star under contract for 6 years? And also blocked by, at the time, a same aged switch hitting wonder boy named Salty?
By Kyle Davies you’re talking about the same kid that couldn’t enjoy the sport any more with the Braves; his own admission. The same kid that had control issues here and is now right back in the 1/1 BB/K range?
And the Teixeira trade wasn’t wise? Everyone of those players was blocked by multiple players in the organization. The team dealt from a position of strength.
The Sabathia trade continues a pattern that the Brewers began last year, when they traded three minor-league pitchers to the Padres for reliever Scott Linebrink, then gladly settled for two top draft picks when Linebrink left for the White Sox as a free agent.
The entire industry has seen what the Brewers can do through scouting and player development — Class AA outfielder Matt LaPorta, the centerpiece of the Sabathia deal, was the team’s first-round pick in 2007.
As the Brewers’ youngsters continue to evolve, club officials can continue picking and choosing among their players, using their surpluses to maximum advantage.
—Ken Rosenthal
Seems similar to the Braves situation. Guess it’s good for the Brewers, but not good for the Braves…
Nothing will guarantee a playoff spot. No trade ever comes with a guarantee. So be disappointed in the result, but the effort was there. It just wasn’t enough.
By flange1
July 7, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Great answers at 6:07!
By GT 81
July 7, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Let’s hope Frenchy can now handle that nasty outside corner breaking stuff, and lay off the foot outside fastball. Proving that he can still plaster 88 mph down the middle is somehow not terribly encouraging, but maybe he switched some gear or something.
Was that 17 inning game amazing or what? 2 all time web gems in one game: Mac’s juggling act and Escobar’s magnificent grab.
By bravos2249
July 7, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Max Ramirex got traded to Texas for Kenny Lofton last year..and he got called up to the bigs this year hit a homer in his first game….doesn’t mean he’s going to be good though…he’s hitting .160
By waittillnextyearagain
July 7, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Frency suffers from the worst disease any athlete can have…POTENTIAL. I have often felt as if Frency believes he is entitled to Chipper as the face of the organization. I saw him many times as a Rome Brave his first year…good player/nice guy. McCann was also a Rome Brave that year and was also a good player/nice guy but worked his rear off and showed consistent improvement all year. I was not surprised when McCann got the call up to ATL before Frenchy. Positional situations aside, McCann left the impression that he worked harder at getting better than Frency. Having followed both from afar since their Low-A days, McCann appears to have developed into a top-notch defensive player and very good, disciplined hitter. Frency menwhile still can’t lay off the high heat, has only a vague idea of what a strike zone is and wants to pull everything! Frenchy…stop worrying about being the face of the franchise…you cried when McCann & Co. got called up from AA Mississippi before you and you cried when you got sent down for your hitting woes last week. It’s high time you put your BIG BOY JOCK STRAP ON AND DID SOME REAL WORK
By keef1234
July 7, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
sounds like the whiney baby is now running the asylum…I believe HE TOLD WREN to recall him “because he didn’t like how it was handled…” WHAT???? a 24 yo punk who sucks refused 2 long term contracts unlike his best friend McCann and HE DOESN’ LIKE HOW IT WAS HANDLED??? Monday night 0 for 4…
By TennesseePaul
July 7, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Niceville’s DeVall signs pro deal
Niceville’s Brett DeVall signed with the Atlanta Braves on Monday.
DeVall, was selected No. 40 in the MaJor League Baseball First-Year Player Draft in June. He was Atlanta’s first selection of the draft and the second high school lefthander selected in the first round.
In his senior year at Niceville, DeVall went 13-2 and led the Eagles to the Class 5A state semifinals. He was selected as a first-team all-state member by the Florida Sports Writers Association.
—Staff Report
By repo man
July 7, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
klrknga, sorry man thought you were someone else. Know you’re not are you would have give me hell.
I also agree on Tex and getting a pitcher. Never thought I’d say it but I believe after all this time Hampton has finally got it together. That would be great .Hope so…go braves.
By BHS
July 7, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
As a Brookwood grad this cracked me up: By Parkview grad
July 7, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Jeff is a very mentally player.
By Fred Secunda
July 7, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
This move makes absolutely no sense to me. It’s moves like these that gives all the Mets fans on this board reason to question the men in the Braves front office who call the shots.
Jeff Francoeur was a train wreck, a complete basket case at the major league level a week ago. He gets sent to AA, where Frank Wren says he will be there for “10 to 20 days.” On being sent down, Francoeur b*** about the decision and says his relationship with the Braves will never be the same.
The guy obviously didn’t realize he was hurting the team, and he was obviously just thinking about himself. If he wasn’t the Chosen One in the eyes of Bobby and the guys in the front office, comments like that would send the average player out on a rail.
So Francoeur’s upset about the move. And he goes to AA and has two good games. Meanwhile, back in the big leagues, the Braves finish a 17-inning marathon where they exhaust their entire bullpen, and two pitchers, Bennett and Acosta, are placed on the DL. So what does Frank Wren do?
Call up one reliever, Vladimir Nunez, and two position players, one of whom is Francoeur. Makes absolutely no sense.
They should have let him sit in Mississippi for a while until he actually figured something out about his swing, and had a chance to think about why was sent down. Now it just looks like Wren and the boys regret sending him down and are covering their tracks.
Pathetic.
By JJ
July 7, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Wow…..the same post 10 times. We get the point.
DOB, is there anything to report on the trade front? Any rumors of deals for LF or more bats? My wishful thinking includes Jason Bay or Xavier Nady. Pipedream I’m sure.
DOB, What say you?
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
No it’s not. He’s a free agent after this year - period. That’s the industry standard definition of a “rental player” in sports.Unless you can sign him as part of the trade - doubtful.
To say that a team that trades for him cannot then sign him is not true. It’s not true for the Braves, or anyone else.
Like I said, I’ll be happy to change my mind if you’ve talked to some people in organizations and they told you they would be interested in him as a “rental” only, then say so.If not, then you don’t “know” any more than the rest of us.
I never claimed to “know” anything. I just said to ask for major league talent instead of minor league talent if a trade went down.It was you and others that have taken that simple point a ran with it.
I think I showed you were I was coming from and gave you some teams who have money and a need at first base. I even mentioned 3 team tardes, also “industry standard, as a possibility.
You asked me: “Do you have a scenario where they could trade him for a MLB player of value to the Braves?
I gave you one. I said the particular players I did because it’s well known that Giambi’s contract is expiring or they can buy him out rather,and the Yankees are going to be interested in a first baseman. A-Rod doesn’t play first base. Abreau would be an improvement in LF for the Braves and Chamberlin a nice addition to the pitching staff.
What? You don’t want A-Rod too? Come on. Joba? You’re lost on player values I’m afraid.
Look if you want to pretend that things can happen only the way you say they can or cannot then fine. I did not give you some far out answer and you know it.
**I’ll take both thanks. I’ve been calling for the Braves to get in on a Sabathia deal for some time now soo.
That wasn’t one of your options. You completely avoided the point.**
Why didn’t you give my complete quote?
“I’ll take both thanks. I’ve been calling for the Braves to get in on a Sabathia deal for some time now soo.”
Now what part of that quote gives you the impression that didn’t your question? You are the one that raised Santana’s name, not me.
I’ll keep an eye on his blinking patterns when he’s at bat for a signal but I need to warn you that my morse code is a little rusty.
What the heck are you talking about? Morse code? Huh?Signal as in communication through his agent or his direct discussion with team officials.
Look if you think it’s better to ask for minor league prospects instead of including some major league talent in a possible trade then just say that!!
It’s really simple to say. It is allowed for people to disagree on things. Just don’t take the tone that you “know” for certain things that none of us do.Or that asking for major league talent in a trade is some weird unimaginable concept.
Spare the drama and b.s.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Today’s blog tip: Just hit post one time.
Thanks, I’ll be here all week.
By TennesseePaul
July 7, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
bravos2249: Totally forgot about him being traded. Thanks for the reminder. And even if he turns out well, McCann is already kicking a*. Trading Max wasn’t a bad move. I believe at the time of the trade he was injured or out for some reason.
By ncscoots
July 7, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Stranger things have happened in baseball than Francoeur flipping a switch with three days in the minors. I haven’t looked up the pitchers that he faced down there (doubt anyone else has, either), but unless Francoeur was facing every scrub in the league, 7-for-13 is pretty good at any level. I know some of you must think AA pitching is just ML BP, but that’s not even close to the mark.
Maybe all Wellman did was suck all the conflicting advice out of his head, and remind him to see the ball, hit the ball…hard. Forget all the hit-it-to-right, stay-within-yourself, advice-this, advice-that. Get a good pitch in the strike zone, and tool the ever-living snot out of it.
The guy had gotten so tentative that he was deciding to take pitches before they left the pitcher’s hand, ferchrissake. While that’s not a bad plan given certain game situations, you can’t treat most of your AB that way. Gotta be ready to swing the bat…doesn’t mean you have to do so, but gotta be ready. Maybe that’s the only “magic” Phil Wellman had in his pouch of potions…reminding Francoeur of the purpose of the bat, and what he’s capable of doing with it.
By who cares
July 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Anders, great post. Frenchy proved last year by not accepting a great offer that he only cared about himself. He proved it again when he bulked up in the off season to hit more homeruns and thus make more money.And he is proving it again when he bad mouths the whole organization including the current GM. He forgot to mention that he is pathetic in hitting with RISP, and that his overall average is pathetic, and now his fielding is below average. Trade him and Tex now, and start over, because you can forget about this team making a run this year.Wren needs to start the total rebuilding job now, that means forget about Glavine, Smoltz,Hampton,Kotsay, and even Chipper. This team is going nowhere, and Chipper is no leader. Let’s get rid of him while he is valuable, or we will have another Glavine on our hands. Lets see if Wren is a true leader, or just a follower.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
No problem,repoman I have no desire to give you or anyone else hell.
I’m glad you’re willing to give Hampton a chance. I know I’ve gone out on a limb, but I really believe he’ll be a big help, if he’s healthy. He will not be perfect, there will likely be a game or two where he gets shelled, but I feel he could win 10 games for us.
By count_schemula
July 7, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
With A Jones gone, Smoltz, Glavine and Hampton off the payroll, the Braves should have a lot of money heading in 2009, no?
On Frenchy. The send down is not half as botched as a the call-up. He looked terrible before he got sent down and he did not work out of that mess in 3 days. All lunging and flying open and looking so lost. Jeff is a see the ball hit the ball kind of hitter. He’s not seeing it right now.
By rupert
July 7, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
DOB, what is john shuerholtz’s role (i know he is president) with this team? you don’t hear him mentioned anymore, so is he totaly seperated from the on-field side of the organization? seems like it is wren’s show now.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 7, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
Before everyone gets too excited about the CC trade, Joe/Boog made a point last night about pitchers being traded at the deadline compared to hitters being traded.
I don’t remember the pitchers/years, but Joe said only 3 pitchers traded at the deadline the past 10 years has actually won a game during the playoffs….
Maybe some of ya’ll can remember more in detail what they said, but I found it very interesting. If that’s true, it proves to me what I’ve always thought, and that is we need another bat.
Also IF IF IF Hampton comes back, I look for Morton to go back to AAA. Carlyle has been very impressive, I would like to see Bobby use him some as a spot starter. JJJ/JoJo/Campillo are going to get tired at some point. Jurrjeans spraining his ankle was probably a blessing in disguise, as he was beginning to look fatigued.
By An Old Timer
July 7, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Sucks that we couldn’t get in on Sabathia, but then again I asked myself what would have happened if we did…would it be more of a JD Drew type deal or the possible Tex deal where we only keep him for one full year or do we make a Tim Hudson like deal where we hold on to the guy.
I made a post over on the other blog earlier today and the more time that I have had to think about the Braves organization the more I realize that I don’t trust the Braves brass as much as I once did. Not going to say the Tex deal was a good or a bad deal…either way you look at it the deal has not worked out amongst other things we lost quite a few prospects. When it comes to possibly trading Tex this year I have been one of the “lets trade him” crowd, but I worry about the Braves brass not pulling or pulling the string on a possible deal. This year alone has put a lot of doubt in my mind when it comes to what we are doing because some of the decisions that have been made in regards to relying on the older arms for our starting rotation which hasn’t hurt us to much…and then there’s the release of Pena while holding on to Corky, and now there’s the Frenchy botch..
I don’t trust the Braves brass.
By BossLady
July 7, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Where is the interview that Francouer held regarding his being sent down? I want to read it for myself. Some say it is nothing, some say it is whiny and then also Ugly.
By byebyefrency
July 7, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Should have been sent down to the Gulf Coast League until he went 5-15 with no hits left of 2nd base counted. Then the same thing at Low A Rome. Likewise for High A Myrtle Beach, AA Mississippi and AAA Richmond. Problem is that would take another year for Francour to accomplish. This prima donna needs some humility. Somebody needs to tell him that Daddy can’t help him now! I predict he’ll be a footnote in MLB within 5 years. Just another ‘should-a, would-a, could-a’ story. ‘Reckon Tommy Bowden wants a 24 year old freshman QB?
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
kirknga, I said prized major leaguers, being sarcastic, meaning the Bob Wickmans and Octavio Dotels of the world… i never said prized prospects. i said high-potential prospects.
Max Ramirez has been blocked on the Indians (it’s easy to be blocked with Victor Martinez on your team) and Rangers, mostly because of his defense. It has absolutely nothing to do with his offense. So shift him over to first base and you’ve got a guy who’s hit .360 with 17 HR and 50 RBI at AA this season. I’ll roll the dice with that guy, who was selected to the Futures Game on July 13, over half a season of Bob Wickman in which you don’t make it to the postseason. (I know, he was here for a year and a half, but the Braves made the deal without knowing they’d resign him toward the end of the year)…
As for Kyle Davies, hindsight is 20/20, but his three wins this season are more than Dotel ever got us. The dude wasn’t even good enough to land us a second-round pick as a Type B Free Agent (top 40% of players at his position).
As for the five guys traded for Tex, Elvis Andrus is hitting .293 with 49 runs scored and 30 stolen bases in 67 games at AA Frisco. He’s been major-league ready, defensively at shortstop, for more than a year. He, too, was selected to the July 13 Futures Game the Sunday preceding the July 15 All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium. He’d be a nice option at leadoff for the Braves next year.
Matt Harrison is very close to the majors, having overcome injury questions to throw a no hitter at AA earlier this year and post a combined line of 6-3, 3.43 ERA and a 2-to-1 K-to-BB ratio in 84 IP over 15 starts at AA and AAA.
Neftali Feliz may end up being the best of the bunch. While certainly at least a year or two away from his major-league debut, take a look at this line at Class A Clinton of the Midwest League: 6-3, 2.52 ERA, 106 K, 28 BB, in 82 innings over 17 starts. He’s filthy.
Beau Jones compensated for injury questions with Harrison and his numbers have lacked luster at High A Bakersfield.
Obviously Salty has stalled in his development, but he’s still got a ton of potential.
TennesseePaul, yep that’s the Max Ramirez I’m talking about. See stats above… and someone else brought up his .160 average so far in the bigs. *That’s in 25 MLB at bats. If you want to throw in the towel because it’s taken him more than 25 major-league at bats to establish himself, you’re being ridiculous. With Davies, again what more did Octavio Dotel bring to the table than Davies? Hindsight’s 20/20, but I’d definitely take that deal back. Finally, you’re correct with the position of strength point. But that doesn’t mean the Tex deal has made the Braves a playoff team - the entire premise of my original point, which remains reproduced in italics on your post.
By Dylan Kight
July 7, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
How about “Grey in L.A.” by Loudon Wainwright lll for the song portion of the blog for this series? Great tune! Hope your travels are safe mr man in black blogger!
Knock em dead Jeff! July 7th is the charm!
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
If I was a Brewer fan right now I’d be very happy to get Sabathia. But at the same time, I don’t think I could enjoy it as much knowing that it’s likely he and Sheets are both gone after the season.
I do admire the Brewer brass for their gung ho attitude towards this season though. If they got into the playoffs, Sabathia and Sheets could be as potent a 1-2 punch as we’ve seen since Johnson and Schilling.
I wonder if they don’t get into the playoffs if Yost will be forced out?
By Larry
July 7, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Due to Francoeur. the Braves are the laughingstock of the major leagues. And, rightly so. Thanks, Frank Wren.
By Chop Shop
July 7, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Thanks Tennessee Paul for the DeVall link.
I tried, but just couldn’t get that darm link to work properly. Appreciate you cleaning up my mess.
By mike
July 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
It’s an absolutely miracle. Frenchy has finally found his swing in only 3 days.
By mike
July 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
It’s an absolute miracle. Frenchy has finally found his swing in only 3 days.
By mike
July 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
It’s an absolute miracle. Frenchy has finally found his swing in only 3 days.
By Mr. Optimistic
July 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
i kno im not sayin anything alot of fans have been thinkin but if we just could have a good road trip get this thing to 3 4 or 5 games we have a shot. just like the mets are owning the phils we have dont the same to them taking 7 outta 9 and the 1 they got was smotlzs last go as a starter. mets are doing there part looking good 2 take 3 of 4 from the phils. they face 2 good pitches against san fran and 1 for colorado. the phils have zona and st. lous so a good trip would be great for atlanta. at FULL Strength i think we match up really well so if we can get close 2 that by after the break i think we have a shot. get hampton soriano diaz acosta infante bennett back give kotsays back a breather and hope the bright lights in the bronx dont do anything to chipper and we have a good chance. with all the injuries and seeminly a team with 2 to 4 players swinging a good stick to be 3 4 or 5 out at the break would be huge. come on campillo start us off on the right foot
By bravo and uga
July 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
FRENCHY REMINDS ME OF FRENCH’S MUSTARD{HOT DOG] HE MUST STAY IN THE MINORS SEND HIM TO RICHMOND FOR A MONTH. I BET HE CANNOT HIT TRIPLE A PITCHING. HE IS THE WORST HITTING RIGHT FIELDER IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES.WE NEED A PITCHING COACH AND A DECENT HITTING COACH TOO.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Greg O.
My apologies I thought prized prospects was the same as high-potential prospects. I there is a difference in your opinion. I don’t like it when people mischaracterize what I say and I don’t want to do that with you.
However, DOB has reported that the Braves only considered Neftali Feliz as a top prospect.
What you say about the minor league performance of those players is true. However, with the exception of Wainwright, what prospect have the Braves traded that has turned out to be a stud at the major league level?
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
I posted something a few hours ago, and it never showed up—yet somehow, somebody got their’s to come up ten times. Strange.
Anyway, this is the second straight year they’ve been out West the week before the All-Star Break. That is sooo unfair. Those people who make the schedules should realize that some of us die-hards have to be in bed at ten, and cannot go two weeks without Braves baseball. ; )
But, I’ll watch some of Friday’s game, and Sunday’s is on in the afternoon.
By Tomahawkin
July 7, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
As always good 411 on dem Braves… Hopefully you can ask the Dodger Faithful on the Furcal situation (Since he been a bust ever since signing that 3-yr 33 million dollar deal)…
…We were wise to not resign him for 13 million, but our offense hasn’t clicked since his departure…
There were some people wanting him back since we don’t have a true leadoff man, but With Esco at Short I think the Braves would be hard-pressed to get him back…
By Dustin Robinson
July 7, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur really does need to shut his mouth. He keeps digging himself a hole with all this “damper on my relationship” and “betrayed” talk to the point where fans are going to boo him regardless of his play. I think I’ve managed to dislike him more based on the way he’s publicly handled his demotion than the .100 (2-for-20) with bases loaded. The only person that has betrayed Francoeur is Francoeur himself being unable to keep his pinwheel bat outside of the strikezone.
It reminds me of Bill Hall’s little hissy fit when Ned Yost told him he wasn’t going to be an everyday player anymore. What do you expect when you’re hitting .210 two months into the season and healthy, Bill?
By jed
July 7, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
fred secunda
good post at 6:51 pm.
the point in sending JF down wasnt to ‘punish’ him, it was to straighten him out for the last 2 months of the season. what’s the point of this move? i dont get it. certainly, he hasnt made that much progress in a couple of days. i know perry’s not doing great, so fine…call josh anderson back up. put some speed in the lineup. but if you make the tough move and send JF down, stick with it and make it work, so he does find himself. then, you’d have somebody to play RF. right now, you’ve got nobody and chances are good JF is going to still be screwed up at the plate.
By Scott from Fairburn
July 7, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t it be interesting if Frenchy’s path has changed toward Colorado in a deal involving Matt Holliday and Jeff Francis?
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
GT 81 Was that 17 inning game amazing or what? 2 all time web gems in one game: Mac’s juggling act and Escobar’s magnificent grab.
That strikeout of Brad Ausmus was hilarious! The ball hit him in the hand, and as he was kinda going back like, “Ow,” he realized he could still catch it! I’d like to see that again—in real time, not XMo. (No offense to XMo. That stuff’s cool.)
And that was very good catch by Escobar, too!
By DP
July 7, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Speaking of the Godfather, with the Braves front office continuing to pretend that this team that has played sub .500 baseball for 2 1/2 years, that has half its limited payroll on the DL, that is headed toward the worst record in one run decisions in modern major league history, that can’t get down a bunt or advance a runner in critical situations, that depends on young starting pitchers who are almost certain to hit the wall in August, that pretends its mercenary Boras-client rental at first might be here next year, that couldn’t send their wildly overrated “Chosen One” who was hitting .230 with a sub .300 OBP and 2 for 20 with the bases loaded to the minors without publicly agonizing about how it was the toughest thing they’ve ever done, for them to reverse course and bring him back up after 3 games in spite of the fact that he ripped them publicly….to pretend that this team is somehow in contention for a playoff spot….they’re dead to me now.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 7, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin,
Nostalgia can be the enemy of sound judgment. I’d hate to see the Braves spend one minute pursuing Furcal. He’s having the same sort of back surgery Kotsay had and will be hard pressed to play much again this year.
Braves don’t need to take on another veteran player (even if he’s a cheap free agent) who’s a bad turn on a double play away from an extended stint on the DL.
By Flamethrower
July 7, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Braves have done disservice to Frenchy. He’ll be ripped by the fans who were ripping him before, but with more gusto now that he whined and, according to the press, didn’t handle demotion well. He’ll be pressing to show that the trip down was unjustified. This move shows how vulnerable the organization is. Knee jerk reaction w/ Frenchy started it all. We suffered through years of AJ with no trip to “find himself.” Can’t justify mishandling this situation. Good batting instructor would have avoided this situation.
By Tomahawkin
July 7, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
80 degree weather at Chivez Ravine… Hopefully the ball will carry tonight so that dem Braves can get a lead early…
Im tired of these close game where the opposing team takes the lead late resulting in 1-run loss situations…
BTW This might be a dumb Question D.O.B. but how do you think the Radio stations in L.A. compare to the one’s in Atlanta…
By mets fan in atlanta
July 7, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
Mets are up 8-0 on the Phillies. They knocked Adam Eaton out of the game in the 3rd inning. I finally broke down and ordered MLB TV online a couple weeks ago, and man, is it worth it.
But I digress, watching the Mets the last week is like watching a different team from earlier this season. Just in this last inning, the Mets had 1st and 3rd-one out, and Schneider up. He grounds one to shortstop, looks like a tailor-made double play. But no, Manuel had put on the hit and run, so Tatis was already heading into 2nd base, and Delgado scored from 3rd as Rollins only play was to 1st. The Mets went on to score two more that inning on a hard driven ball by Pedro, Reyes beat out an infield hit, and then Endy got another 2-out base hit. All of that doesn’t happen if they don’t stay out of the double play.
The Phillies announcers are sounding very fearful right now—already said the Mets are on an emotional roll right now, and the Phillies have just curled up.
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
kirknga, point taken. JS made many deals that could be characterized as theft. The McGriff and Hudson deals come to mind. I’m not sure if the prospect labels apply to Jason Schmidt and Jermaine Dye, as they were both in the majors when they were dealt, but they were both first or second-year players, if my memory serves me correctly. The Schmidt deal certainly isn’t as egregious as the Dye deal because Neagle did help the Braves to a World Series Championship, while Dye netted us back-up/platoon players Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker. While it certainly continues to hurt that the Braves traded Wainwright, at least Drew helped the Braves to the playoffs - where a lack of starting pitching was to fault.
With that being said, I believe both Feliz and Andrus could turn into studs. Feliz just turned 20 and Andrus will be 20 in August. What they’ve done to date in the minors is nothing short of remarkable for prospects their age. I also think Salty and Harrison will be a solid/above average major leaguers.
Baseball America ranked Andrus as the best player in Texas’ system and said “Andrus’ all-around game draws comparisons to an in-his-prime Edgar Renteria’s. As with Renteria, defense will always be Andrus’ calling card, but he has a chance to be a solid No. 2 hitter in the big leagues if he’s given more at-bats to develop.” With 40 SB last year and 30 already this year, I think he could hit leadoff and be a game-changer, something the Braves have lacked in the past few years (Blanco has proven to be decent in this role, however).
By Tomahawkin
July 7, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Bravesfan I will co-sign with 8:08 statement you just posted… especially since the brainging back the old braves hasn’t worked the last 3 years running…
I’d kinda wish we can develop a speed demon in the minors, who can make opposing pitchers make mistakes, while focusing on the runner too much like Otis Nixon used to do with the early ninties braves teams…
and plus I’d figured if we get clowned by both L.A. and San Deigo we need to be sellers early and ship Tex off before its too late, we need to get some young guns who can remind the ol-school braves fans of the early ninties braves teams…
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Rupert, Schuerholz isn’t involved much, if at all, in day-to-day roster moves and trade discussions, that kind of thing. At least from what I can tell, from talking to people and just observing. He’s involved in the team’s other operations, in its relationships with affiliates, sponsors, etc. I’m not sure of the full scope of all that he does, but baseball operations isn’t a key part of what he does anymore.
By The Truth
July 7, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
I’m talking off the top of my head here…(haven’t had the chance to look it up) but if memory serves me right the Braves swept LA earlier this year and I believe we won 3 out of 4 from the Padres…maybe a 3 game sweep. Either way it goes I think the Braves have a shot a very slim shot to at least do as good as .500 on this trip, but again its very slim since this is road series.
I don’t see the Braves being any further behind then what they are currently today, but I don’t think we get any closer. That being said the trade deadline is the 31st so there will still be a couple of weeks to go after the all-star break. I have said that the Braves would need to unload Tex for almost a month now. I still think we need to unload him but we should hold out maybe a week after the all-star break to see where we and other teams stand. If we are out a good 8 to 10 games then a deal has to be done, but it will also depend on other teams in playoff contention. Like I said in previous blogs I’m not trading Tex to anybody in the NL and I would seriously think about it before making a trade with anybody in the NL. So if we do anything it’ll probably be to the AL. Yeah the NYY want Tex, but they are 8.5 games out…would they be willing to make a move with the Braves being that far back. If anybody is going to do any dealing we would probably be looking at teams like Bos. LAA and TB. Don’t know who have the best prospects out of those three so the Braves will probably take the wait and see method.
And as far as things go with Frenchy…the Braves could have brought up Brandon Jones if they were truly serious about helping Jeff out.
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
“He (Hampton) will not be perfect, there will likely be a game or two where he gets shelled, but I feel he could win 10 games for us.”
kirknga,
You “feel he could” win 10 games for the Braves in the second half of this season?
Okay. Let’s see here…
The Braves are 42-47. That’s 89 games played, so they have 73 games left. With six games to play before the All-Star break, that leaves the Braves with 67 games left to play in the so-called “second half” of this season.
It’s safe to say that Mike Hampton will not be back before the break, so that leaves him, at maximum, 67 games in which to win those 10 games. If (forget bold, put that “if” in neon lights as large as Stone Mountain) Hampton goes right into the rotation immediately after the break and stays healthy the rest of the year, that means he’ll make roughly 13 starts.
You’re telling me that you feel that Mike Hampton could win 10 out of 13 starts? I know you like proof, kirknga. Do I have proof to back up my firm belief that Mike Hampton will not win 10 out of 13 second-half starts?
No.
I am sane, though. Can I use that as proof?
By bamafan_2009
July 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
okay since Max Ramirez only has 25 ab and you don’t throw the towel in on him then why do people on here bash B. Jones and other such young talent?
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Braves’ flight was delayed leaving Atlanta last night, they got to their L.A. hotel at close to 3 a.m. West Coast time.
V. Nunez and Lillibridge are here today, Francoeur isn’t expected to arrive until late in the game.
Escobar had a big ice bag strapped to his arm before BP today, where he made that sensational catch yesterday that about pulled his arm off. But he’s in the lineup.
LINEUP: 1. Blanco (LF), 2. Escobar, 3. Chipper, 4. Tex, 5. McCann, 6. KJ, 7. Kotsay, 8. Jason Perry (RF), 9. Campillo.
Andruw’s hitting sixth for Los Dodgers.
By Opie South
July 7, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
I have lost respect for Francouer with the whining. Other veterans hve been sent down. It is not like he was the first. I wonder if the quick recall and the fact they kept 5 outfielders with 11 pitchers could indicate that they may trade Frenchy after his outburst. I have no problem with it as they need team players. See if the Pirates will take him for Jason Bay or Xavier Nady. Either one! Or how about Mark Reynolds.
By ncscoots
July 7, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
I guess I’m missing something somewhere. Francoeur hit a bad patch early, his head went south, and he started trying anything, everything to get right…including all 3,287 solutions voiced on this blog. No wonder his swing was screwed.
But no one here seems to think that the trip down did exactly what it appears to have been designed to do: clear out his head, and let his physical skills lead the way. Wasn’t that exactly what 99% of the folks here wanted to happen? Whether that takes 3 days or 20 isn’t something that can be predetermined.
As far as his spouting off, well, that matters not a whit to me. It might have been immature, but that’s hardly fatal. If it were, this forum would have all the zest of a graveyard.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Braves will probably add a pitcher tomorrow, from somewhere (in or outside organization, I’m not sure which).
By Steve from OH
July 7, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
DOB, how about those Hanson quotes? (sorry to keep buggin, but…)
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the lineup, Chief.
Their flight was delayed, eh? Well, that makes sense. How cann you go without a flight delay when you’re leaving for Cali after playing a five 1/2 hour game?
The Braves…You gotta love ‘em!
By Opie South
July 7, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
David, Do you think they may trade Frenchy for a starting pitcher? That would make the 5 outfielder thing make sense as they would not have to turn around and send one down. I am sure they could get a good one for him. May be best for everyone now. Especially if they get a qulaity arm which is badely needed.
By BraveTiger
July 7, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
DOB - this pitcher they may add tomorrow, are you saying they may make a trade for a pitcher?
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Crossing my fingers for Campillo tonight … bullpen got quite the workout yesterday. It would be nice if he could give us seven tonight.
In light of yesterday, a short outing tonight could have a huge impact on this series.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
GegO You may turn out to be right about Andrus or any of the other prospects. Obviously the Rangers believe as you do. None would be of help to the Braves this season except for maybe Salty.At this point though, I think it’s fair to say the Braves did another great job with the trade.
Dye and Schmidt were not in the minors. But they are examples of what I was talking about earlier about asking for major league talent in a trade. Look how their careers turned out.
Chop Chop I was thinking 13-14 starts if he remained healthy. Yes I believe it to be possible, he could win 9 or 10 games. Can I prove a future event, nope. That’s why I admitted I was out on a limb.
As I said earlier, from reading comments here , should he return I’m not sure there won’t be more people pulling for him to get hurt again than to be successful and help the Braves.
Again, it’s just a feeling on this one. I feel after all the disappointment of injury, the guy is going to comeback in the last half season of his big contract, and pitch so well, he’ll be resigned!
By StingerSplash
July 7, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Adam LaRoche just tripled in the Astros-Pirates game. So what’s the final sign of the apocalypse, because I think we’re down to one after that.
By BA
July 7, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
McFann, you got to stay up! We need your good luck, and you’re one of only a handful of positive in-game posters! Sleep’s overrated, anyway.
DOB, the whole Doc Ellis thing blows my mind! How did I not know about this? Baseball is like a presidency, you only hear about that kind of stuff years after the fact. Or in my case, MANY years. Rodgers does a stand-up job, but you just can’t beat stuff like today’s blog.
By tim-braves lifer
July 7, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
DOB caught your interview on espn news,it was good stuff! folks,remember who was on the rotation before the year started? Remember who was in the bull-pen? With the injuries they’ve had it is a wonder there not 20 games out! So we shouldnt feel soooo bad.
By bravos2249
July 7, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
DOB
What exactly does Frenchy mean by keeping his mouth shut for so long? What has he kept his mouth shut for so long about that he let us know?
His true self?
“…I know fans were surprised at some of my comments. But at the same time, for so long, I’ve kept my mouth shut…”
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
Hmmm, wonder if it’s former Brave Joe Borowski, who was DFA’d by Cleveland last week … ???
By Opie South
July 7, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
LOL. I can’t spell any better than I can hit myself. I meant quality and badly. Were typos. Now about the trade?
By Saltywoody
July 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Frenchy is aptly named, as it turns out.
He thinks too highly of himself, he whines a lot, and then when it’s time to actually get the job done, he doesn’t show up.
Sounds a lot like the country his last name hails from.
Remember how we changed from “French fries” a few years back to “Freedom fries” in reaction to France’s condemnation of our politics and such? I propose a similar name change for Frenchy.
If we called him Jeff “Freedom” Francouer instead of Jeff “Frenchy” Franceouer….maybe he’d start performing like our country. You know…showing up where he’s not wanted, forcing his will on people, and then bolting before the job is done.
(As a disclaimer, I say all of this in jest…lest anyone want to criticize my opinions of “Freedom” Francouer or either country I mentioned).
By doc
July 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
dob, glad to hear all is well with the frenchy from the update. we seem to forget that the great smoltz had similar “performance” issues until he began to see a sports psychologist. the most interesting part of it was smoltz was so candid about it and helped to bring out the science to mainstream thought. though smoltz’ “shrink” has been affected by MS maybe he could consider such a strategy to help him going forward from here.
By Doug
July 7, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
interesting about resop. i was told he was improving steadily in AAA as a starter.
BravesInfo Pre-Series Live Chat, happening NOW!
[Click here to go to BravesInfo](htttp://www.bravesinfo.wordpress.com
By BA
July 7, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin, we got a speed demon on the way- Gorkys Hernandez at A Myrtle Beach. He might turn out to have a little power as well.
By woogidy
July 7, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
The Braves made the move of the season last year trading for TEX, but it was ultimately too late. This year, the Braves need outfield help in the worse way. The answer isn’t Diaz, or hope of a resurgence of Frenchy. They need to make a move, and fast. This team is sinking. I know DOB, they’re only 6 out, but they are 7 1/2 out of the wild card, and sinking. Nady would be a good option, I think, but I still want to see Barry Bonds. This is about winning games. I think he is the best outfielder available, and he would cost nothing. Get BARRY!! It’s time the Braves thought outside the same old box they’ve been in for as long as anyone can remember. It seems in recent years, the formula for winning it all was at least some “selfish” (Manny being Manny, Ozzie Guillen and A.J. Pierzynski, Scott Rolen, Larussa feud) players on the roster. A good mix of players, not a bunch of walking robots that all have the same personality and avoidance of controversy. Just my opinion.
By dgd
July 7, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I’m firmly in the Trade Tex camp. “Moving On” means admitting that the Braves aren’t going to reach the postseason with the roster they currently have—nor are they Jason Bay/Xavier Nady and a bullpen arm away. They just aren’t that close and it’s time to face reality. Moving on means that this team tries to get better for the future, which trading Tex should do. The Braves are very unlikely to resign him, and if they wind up having given up Andrus, Felix, Harrison and Salty and all we get is two draft picks when he walks—then they deserve the mediocre future that awaits them……….
By rupert
July 7, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
thanks DOB for clearing that up for me
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
Just to confirm, Stockman is on DL, hamstring again.
And Resop hasn’t been sold yet, but Braves are talking to a Japanese team and it could happen soon.
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
BA—
Thanks for the complement (though I’m not so sure I’m good luck…).
I’d really love to take you up on that…
Believe me: If I cann, I will!!
By Chop Shop
July 7, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Brett DeVall, the lefty high schooler Braves drafted in first round, signed 7-year deal with $1.1 million signing bonus.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Braves just confirmed they did sign Brett DeVall today, the high school lefty from Florida who was their first selection (40th overall pick) in the June draft.
They also signed second-round pick Tyler Stovall.
They’ve signed 21 of their picks, including 11 pitchers.
By BA
July 7, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
That’s the spirit, Mcfann! And of COURSE you’re good luck. Just think if we had a Fancoeur- he might be starting in the All Star game!
By CODY
July 7, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
I think that Francine will get traded in the next year or so just becuase he apparantly went to the Bonds School of Ego and the Braves won’t tolerate it, for long. I also see the braves calling up Jorge Julio from AAA. The guys got a 2.00 Era and has pitched well. He would give the bullpen a lift if he can control the pitches.
I also believe that if the Braves win tonight and get within 5 (win tomorrow and thats 4 1/2) you may see Wren pull the trigger on a trade sooner than the all-star break. Morton clearly isn’t a pitcher to be counted on (this year) and with JoJo, Hampton and Glavine in the same rotation that would give the Braves to many Lefties.
I wouldn’t be suprised for Atl to trade for another RHP starter and shut down Jo Jo in late August. He is looking a little worn over his last couple of starts. You all have to remember this is his first close to full season and 25 starts would be good enough for this year. Plus JJJ can’t be counted on for too much longer, the closer he gets to 150 Innings it makes you wonder if he can handle any more in his first full season.
Braves need LF, Bullpen arm and SP (Maddux type, just someone that will get us through the rest of the year but keep us in games.)
I do like someones earlier trade proposal of Francour + prospects for Holliday and Francis. That would almost be all we needed. Plus Holliday hits better on the road than Francine can hit combined.
I also think Franky puts to much pressure to succeed in ATL and needs to go somewhere were he feels comfortable. Hint:AA
By Opie South
July 7, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
If we may get a pitcher, how about Hardin from the Athletics? That may work.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
dgd
Fair enough you feel that way, I can see your point. I don’t agree but fair enough.
I wonder if you could tells us where “Andrus, Felix, Harrison and Salty” could fit into the major league club? I could see Salty instead of Corky, but the rest where do they play exactly? Seems as if they would have to take roster spots of some current players, who in your mind are those players?
By SaltyDawg
July 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
I have to say that I like Tex, but we have zero chance of resigning him next year. I am all for trading him now if the price is right and we can get a couple of solid prospects in return. Maybe a good young pitcher or two? I think McCann can fill the four-spot at least as well as Tex.
On the Francoeur issue, I wish everybody would give the guy a chance to come back and see if the kid got that monkey off of his back. Baseball is extremely mental and I really think he just needed to clear his head. Ask yourself this: if Frenchy comes back and hits .300 for the rest of the season would he have redeemed himself? It’s not unrealistic, but if the media and fans don’t give him a chance you can pretty much bet that his troubles won’t improve.
By ncscoots
July 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
if they wind up having given up Andrus, Felix, Harrison and Salty and all we get is two draft picks
But won’t it be the same organization and same scouting department evaluating those two draft picks as that which drafted the four players you mention? If those players are as talented as you think, why wouldn’t the same organization be able to find two players who project just as well?
The prospects in the Teixeira trade may ALL become studs, for all I know, but the odds are against it. And even for those who may make it to MLB, they are unlikely to do so for at least a couple of years. Two draft picks this year, judiciously used, are as likely to help the Braves not long thereafter.
That being said, I still think the Braves need to sign Teixeira at almost any price, but I’ve voiced the reasoning behind that too often to repeat it.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
BossLady
The stories with Frenchy’s quotes aren’t linked on this site anymore but you can still find them by doing a google news search by date on his name.
I copied all of the comments in an earlier post here
By StingerSplash
July 7, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t exactly say Andruw is “hitting” sixth. Maybe occupying the sixth spot in the lineup or swinging and missing sixth, but hitting … nope.
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
BA Just think if we had a Fancoeur- he might be starting in the All Star game!
LOL…
Hey, I cann stay up for a couple innings! But I don’t know about the computer…See, it sits in the same room as The Bird, and I don’t know if he’ll buy into the “sleep’s overrated” thing too quickly…
; )
But ya never know…He might listen to me, his “Lovey”.
Just a half hour away!
By Bshaf
July 7, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
I guess I’m from the school of thought that we should just punt on this maddening season… if for no other reason than to give us who live and die by this team some peace of mind. I’ve tired on this schizophrenia. So, this clearly puts me in camp Trade Tex. He’s been fun to watch, but we gave up a ton to get him and when the year is up, he’s going to walk. I’d rather see us get some of what we lost back if we’re not contending. Thus, trade him to the highest bidder after a carefully planned hot stove frenzy has been created. I don’t care who it’s to or exactly what all we get back (preferably two top prospects: one position player and one arm). If we get some low level prospects as well, great (see: Gorkys). Just pull the trigger.
Big picture It’s time to face facts: this organization needs to be run a la the Oakland A’s, Minnesota Twins, Florida Marlins and (at least recently) the Tampa Bay Rays. We have no business playing in the fantasy baseball world of the Red Sox, Phillies, Angels, White Sox, or Dodgers. Let’s be smart about this. We already have a good collection of young talent. With a few strategic moves - starting with Tex - this roster could resemble those of the other up and coming mid-market teams.
So then who plays first in the absence of Tex? Well, long term, I see a long, lanky, lefty playing right field for Rome. Move Heyward to first and you may as well call him Howard (as in Ryan). This year (and I hope this doesn’t discredit everything I have written), what about giving this guy a shot?
Barbaro
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
They’re playing the Ozomatli version of Take Me Out to the Ballgame on the diamondvision screen, getting people to vote for them. To me, that’s the coolest of all the versions ESPN has shown.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
**, I still think the Braves need to sign Teixeira at almost any price, *8
Yes, yes, yes. It’s clear to me that the Braves are not a better team without Tex. He may not be my idea of $20 million/year player, but I do not want to lose more than we are losing now. I don’t want to lose period. Sign him, and sign a stud starter, trade for a LF and let’s see what happens next year when everyone is healthy.
By BA
July 7, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Almost forgot-I saw DOB’d bit about Carlyle earlier, and I couldn’t agree more. I’ve gone from wondering why they retained him to shocked at how well he’s pitched to having total confidence in him. If he keeps it up I can’t see why they wouldn’t use him in some seventh/eighth inning situations. And if it’s Borowski, I say bring him on. He could be the next in a long line of vets to enjoy a revival in a Cox bullpen.
By AGTFan
July 7, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Run Heap Run
Thanks for posting what you think are spoiled bratty comments. I would have to guess you are pre-disposed to think badly of Francouer. I don’t like the comments, but I don’t see them as being very bad at all. They sound like normal comments from any upset competitve kid. If those comments make Francouer spoiled and bratty, then you must think a lot of other players are Satan. Bonds must make Satan look like a great guy in your book.
By JimD
July 7, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Let’s play hypothetical here …
Let’s assume the Braves are trading Francouer …
How about to KC for Greinke?
By BA
July 7, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
The “trade Tex camp” must be located somewhere in South America near the “Jim Jones camp”. Quiters.
By Reid in EAV
July 7, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
DOB, I voted for Ozo as well. One of my fave bands, particularly live.
As for this bit from Carroll’s story:
“We worked really hard,” said Francoeur, who credited Mississippi manager Phillip Wellman as well as coaches Franklin Stubbs and Leon Roberts. “We talked a little bit about mechanics, but it was mainly get back to the basics, getting back to ‘see ball, hit ball.’ I feel like I’m back mentally, confident, ready to go.”
Well, there we go. “Captain Caveman” is back. And while I think he’s capable of a more disciplined approach, I’ll definitely take “see ball hit ball” over the “mentally tie self in knots, swing at ball 2 feet outside” model.
By AGTFan
July 7, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
ncscoots There you go making rational posts again. The decision of the Braves management and coaches today has infuriated the haters the arrogant know-nothing manager wanna-bees.
Rationality has no place on this blog today.
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
StingerSplash but hitting … nope.
Watch what you say…
By McFann©
July 7, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Well, The Bird wouldn’t listen…He wants to go to bed (he starts this very loud screeching, and well, we can’t deal with that. Dad’s gotta get up early for work).
But I’ll be watching the first couple of innings!
LET’S GO BRAVES!! Kick some Dodger!!
Night, all!!
By jbutler
July 7, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
doc I was thinking the same thing - Morton’s start is basically like any of the big 3 their first years out. I think he’ll be fine - as long as he keeps making progress to some degree.
Sports shrinks are basically accepted in other sports- not sure why it seems to be a taboo in baseball; I taught tennis for the USTA in FL - there were several shrinks working with the big names- Agassi/Courier/Sampras - but it was seen as looking for an advantage - not so much that they’re idiots and can’t figure the game out.
By NCBravesFan
July 7, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Since we’re throwing Frenchy trade scenarios out there … how about JF to Boston for the entire starting infield, plus Beckett, Papelbon and the Citgo sign?
By Braveheart
July 7, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
ESPN is not covering Frenchy’s arrival like they bizarrely did Doug Mirabelli’s a few years back for that Yankees & Bosox game. Yet another sign of Northeastern snobbery
By Pete
July 7, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Francoeur may not be spoiled and bratty; just greedy and arrogant. Havent read a word yet from DOB or anyone re: couple years ago he turned down a 5 year/$25 MIL offer (very similar to the one McCann accepted), or have you all forgotten already? Ill take McCann over Francouer anytime, all day long. GREED KILLS.
By Greg in TN
July 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Evening denizens…
Nothing like a seventeen inning game on get away day with a flight to the west coast as a chaser.
Jeff Francoeur’s weekend pass is complete as he makes his way back from Pearl. Is three games enough for him to get his head on straight? We will find out from now until the All-Star break. Was there a rift already between Francoeur and the Braves front office and did the demotion deepen it? If so, Wren’s comments on his return might have been an olive branch out to him in an effort to help heal that rift. To me, that is a situation where the comments fit the context quite well, but I don’t know the dynamic between #7 and the front office other than the unilateral renewal of his contract the past two seasons.
And now Chavez Ravine awaits along with a former Brave center fielder Andruw Jones, former manager and player Joe Torre, but no Rafael Furcal, who is still dealing with a bulging disk in his back.
Keeping Andre Ethier off the bases would go a long way toward success tonight as well as keeping the LA lads off the scoreboard in the first inning. Ethier went 13 for 32 on their last road trip and as a team, they’ve scored in the first inning in six of their last seven games. It’d be nice to put some runs on the board early tonight.
By ncscoots
July 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
GREED KILLS.
Not according to Gordon Gekko.
By Navigator
July 7, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
The Braves management are totally lacking in intestinal fortitude, total idiots, or maybe extremely lucky. What could Frenchy have learned in 3-4 days? Either he needed time to work out his hitting problems, or this was punishment for not marching to Braves music. If it was hitting issues, they are fools for bringing him back so soon. If the trip was to get his attention, then management may be geniuses! The last possibility is the evaluation proved that he can hit minor league pitching, but will struggle to hit for big numbers, now that the major leagues know his weaknesses. Maybe a trade for a pitcher is on the horizon. No matter, it may take awhile to play out.
By Greg in TN
July 7, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Oops, should be “Are three games enough…” in that earlier post. My 8th grade English teacher has to be howling at me from behind her computer monitor and blistering me on the English teacher’s blog wherever that may be.
One thought that escaped me until I hit the post button. I think Morton and Reyes will both be fine MLB pitchers, but will need some patience from the masses while they find their way at the big league level. They’ll get it from this denizen to be sure.
Good first inning by both Kuroda and Campillo. Dodgers waste the Ethier walk in the first inning, so Campillo bucked the first inning trend of late.
By gayle
July 7, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
dgd scores again.
DOB - moving on means building a contender with prospects rather than some patchwork that might crawl into the playoffs only to get wiped out in the first round. By the way, the Braves last won a post season series in 2001.
Using 85 wins as a bare minimum, this team needs to play out at .590 ball (43-30).
Only the Rays, Angels and Cubs are playing at that level. An outfielder and an arm or two are not going to make that happen. Even with the big three (Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz) in their prime would not bring this about.
Yes, DOB, move on. This west coast swing will prove nothing.
By BA
July 7, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Is it just me or is Vanweiren getting sharper with age? This guy might be the best radio guy working (or alive) right now. And I listen to them all.
By Savannah Guy
July 7, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
But no one here seems to think that the trip down did exactly what it appears to have been designed to do: clear out his head, and let his physical skills lead the way. Whether that takes 3 days or 20 isn’t something that can be predetermined.
As far as his spouting off, well, that matters not a whit to me. It might have been immature, but that’s hardly fatal. If it were, this forum would have all the zest of a graveyard.
Scoots, I damn near always agree with you, I think your ever-positive attitude is commendable and we do agree on the tenor of the blog, but I just can’t go along with your assessment of the Francoeur situation.
Habits, behaviors, mechanics and attitudes that took months or years to develop don’t get resolved in a three day weekend, even if double-teamed by Phil Wellman and Jack Llewellyn. Take those two and even throw Oprah into the mix and it’s still highly improbable that substantive corrections in mechanics could be made in that amount of time… not to mention needed rest for his troublesome ankle injury.
Jeff needed more than a pep talk and a good run of hits against AA pitching to get back on track… and here’s the key… stay there. Overnight fixes aren’t usually sustainable.
Even more troublesome than Jeff’s immature comments and seeming lack of self-awareness is that Frank Wren flip-flopped on the deal. This oddball yo-yo move is a bad example of leadership, not helpful for team dynamic and particularly unhelpful for Jeff himself. Until Wren explains this as a necessary move due to an untenable circumstance (which he won’t), I’ll consider this a leadership stumble.
Perhaps I’m just whistling past the graveyard.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Here’s some stuff I got from McCann about Francoeur and about his “resentment” as it were, etc.
“I think the whole concept was to get his head cleared. He got down there and he realized, ‘What am I doing? What am I doing here?’ He’s way too good to have a prolonged slump like he did.
“And I think he’s going to come back with a vengeance. I think he’s going to have a huge second half, and I’d put anything on it that he does.”
Kelly Johnson told me that the Braves need Francoeur to be Francoeur if they’re going to reach their goals. Said they’re all pulling for him, etc.
When I asked Mac about that, he said, “Yeah, he’s a big key to our success. Defensively, offensively, in the middle of the order driving in runs _ you know, he’s done that for the past three years, and he’s going to get back to that. I know that for a fact.”
I asked him if he’d talked to Jeff (he had) and whether Francoeur was embarrassed, angry, or what.
“I think it was a big wakeup call for him. Not baseball-wise, but everything else around it. I think he needed to find out who he is as a hitter, and I think he found that out. I think he went back down, got with Phil Wellman, cleared his head, and, you know, he’s gonna come back and he’s going to be hacking.
“I know that for a fact. I talked to him. That’s who he is.”
I mentioned those comments Francoeur initially made about how he didn’t like how things went down and how it had affected his relationship with the team, etc:
I asked Mac if it would affect Francoeur’s play:
“Not at all. I think more or less that was just at the beginning because he felt frustrated. I think when he comes back and he rakes and he becomes the player that he is, he’s going to look at these three days that he took and he’s going to realize it was for the better, because he cleared his head and he got away. I think it was the best thing.”
By Greg in TN
July 7, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Wow, great Uncle Charlie there to strike out Loney.
By dgd
July 7, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Ah, we live in an attention deficit disorder world. “Fix everything now” and forget the future. Take out a ridiculous mortgage and assume that housing prices will always go up, run up irresponsible credit card debt so we can have the toy du jour. Save, plan for the future? Forget it.
All I’m saying is the Braves haven’t won in 2 years, the team they have now isn’t going to win, and we’re not minor tweaks away from winning next year. Kirkuga, you don’t think the Braves could find room for Harrison in their rotation this year? You don’t think they might want an arm like Feliz for two years from now? You don’t think they might want a potential superstar like Andrus at shortstop in two years? Wouldn’t the Braves be better next year or the next with a Lars Anderson at first base since Tex won’t be here? It’s not about getting younger, it’s about getting worse temorarily and stocking up for another long run. So what if we eek into the playoffs this year with a team that hasn’t a prayer of advancing. We should continue to mortgage the future for that? That’s called being irresponsible, just like running up credit card debt with no thought for the future……..
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Reid, as you can see from the McCann quotes, Francoeur definitely is planning to be the old see-ball, hit-ball guy. Hey, whatever works, I guess. Try to make a young guy think too much, at least some young guys, and it becomes counterproductive.
But if he doesn’t use the whole field, he’ll never be a really sound hitter. Like Chipper’s said all along, that’s what would take him to another level of hitting. Draw your walks, use the whole field. Really not too complicated.
By JJMB
July 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
Is Andruw Jones THE worst free agent acquisition ever? Monetary/performance-wise? Are there others that comparable?
By Interested Observer
July 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
For the Extra Innings viewers, I have to say I enjoy listening to Vin Scully. While I think he could use a partner to talk to every now and then, it’s amazing to me that he can do an entire game by himself, every day, and never have any dead air. Incredible!
By BA
July 7, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
Lead off double for the Philthys in the top of the ninth from- you guessed it- Gran Torino. Mutts lead 10-7, Wagner on the mound
By keylargo
July 7, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
This kind of messed me up a little. I googled the final all star vote to see where Tex finished.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstarvoting.html
By AGTFan
July 7, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB. Now all the haters will have to trash McCann and KJ for supporting their friend and teammate. It would be nice if there were a few more good fans like there are good teammates. I’d cross the street to avoid most of the people that post here.
You should all probably ignore me. I’m in a bad mood and going on another 3 day migraine.
By StingerSplash
July 7, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Two on, one out against Billy Wags at Corporate Bank Buyout Ballpark, with the Mutts up 10-7 in the ninth. But the Philly folks are letting him hear it.
By BA
July 7, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
10-9 Mutts.
By Tomas
July 7, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
The offense need to get something going.
By TURTSNAP
July 7, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Gotta love the tune playing at Dodger stadium as top 4 starts….. “Talking Baseball”…. the Dodger version…. been a LONG time since I have heard that jingle, especially the Braves version
By JJMB
July 7, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Gawd, those McCann quotes. If I had to listen to that crap, I’d need a puke bucket. Better you than me, DOB.
By Jeff321
July 7, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
For the Extra Innings viewers, I have to say I enjoy listening to Vin Scully.
I agree with that! He brings up some interesting tidbits and calls a great game.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure which Jones gets more boos here now — Andruw or Chipper. It’s been close, so far tonight.
By BA
July 7, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Yeah, interested observer, Scully’s right up there. We’ll all be hurting when the last of these old-school guys retire.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
braves have not got the ball out of the infield through four innings.
By Interested Observer
July 7, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
JJMB
I would nominate Mike Hampton for that award (much longer contract with little production for two teams!) and I think the Yankees fans would want to nominate Carl Pavano.
But your point is well taken. I bet the Dodgers are glad they only gave Andruw a two year contract, instead of the 4 or 5 years he originally wanted.
By mets fan in atlanta
July 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
And Wagner gets revenge on Werth for yesterday. I like that….it took balls to man up and pitch to him with the base open and Coste coming up (who is not very good against everyone but the braves)
Mets win 10-9….is there another lineup in baseball as scary as the Phillies?? Seriously, every batter is a threat to knock it out, even the bench guys. I am so glad that series is over.
You heard it here first…the mets will overpay for a relief arm before the deadline…maybe 2
By BA
July 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Sort of an unconventional pitcher’s duel, but superb nonetheless. Keep dealing, Mexican Maddux.
By Thor
July 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Is it me or does this Dodger pitcher look like he has no-hit stuff tonight. The Bravos aren’t even close to sniffing a hit so far.
By TURTSNAP
July 7, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Dare anyone say that Kuroda looks to have no-hit stuff tonight…. Let’s hope not, but that split finger is NASTY…. NICE PLAY ESCO
By woogidy
July 7, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Yunel will win multiple gold gloves at short I predict.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Kirkuga, you don’t think the Braves could find room for Harrison in their rotation this year? You don’t think they might want an arm like Feliz for two years from now? You don’t think they might want a potential superstar like Andrus at shortstop in two years?
You are the one that believes they were as valuable as you say. Why are you asking me to prove your point?
But no, Escobar is staying at SS. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Elvis is better. Have you seen something? Felix may be good, but is he better than JJ or Jo Jo at this point, I don’ think so, he’s in the minor leagues. Neither pitcher could make the worst pitching staff in the major leagues so that tells me they aren’t yet at a point where someone can point to them and say they could’ve been the future for the Braves.
*Wouldn’t the Braves be better next year or the next with a Lars Anderson at first base since Tex won’t be here? *
No it will not be. Lars Anderson hit 11 HR’s in the minors last year, I’m sorry but I just cannot say that he makes the Braves a better team than Tex. You are stating as fact that Tex will not resign here, you do not know that as a fact no more than any of us can say he will sign resign. I’ll take that back if you’ve spoken to Boras and have an inside scoop.
*It’s not about getting younger, it’s about getting worse temorarily and stocking up for another long run. *
No it’s not. It’s about winning. Winning today, winning tomorrow, winning each and every year you can. There is no guarantee that a team loaded with good young players will mature into winners. Witness the Braves. Witness the Brewers. Witness the Indians.
People here, including you apparently, are ready to give up with 78 games left and 6 games back. What is it going to be like if we’re 15 back with what you suggest.
We should continue to mortgage the future for that? That’s called being irresponsible, just like running up credit card debt with no thought for the future…….. Who mortgage what future?
Again the Braves ’ track record proves that they are quite astute evaluators as to who to keep and who to trade. There’s 17 years of history to go on. What are you going on?
If you trade players who had no or limited futures if they stayed in your organization, then how is that any more than cheap rent?
Lastly, people here have not shown that they have patience to develop young players for a few seasons while waiting to maybe win.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Some comments from Teixeira that I couldn’t squeeze into my notebook.
When I mentioned to him that every time I do a radio interview or whatever, and all day on the blog, people want to know if he’s going to be traded.
“I don�t want it to be a distraction. Because we still have a chance to win. There�s no one in here that�s given up hope on the season.
“The last thing we need is for trade rumors to start.
“I�m enjoying this team, enjoying a pennant race � even though we have a lot work to do � and there hasn�t been too much time for my mind to wander.�
“I went through [trade rumors] last year. The talk is going to happen. You can either buy into it or worry about it, or go out there and do your job. I think that’s what I’m going to do, is go out there and do my job. I just hope my teammates don’t get too involved in rumors.”
GAYLE, just got your memo about moving on and how this West Coast swing will prove nothing. Good deal. Now we just need to convince the bosses that the West Coast swing means nothing and the Crusading Everyman can repair to the beach. Or rent a Harley and ride up the coast.
Meanwhile, back in the real world … we’ve got games to play, Gayle. Hope you enjoy whatever it is you’re moving on to.
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
The Braves are 7-2 against the Mets.
The Mets are 7-3 against the Phils.
The Phils are 8-1 against the Braves.
Oh…and the Marlins are 4-5 against the Braves, 3-3 against the Phils, and 2-4 against the Mets.
Almost forgot…the Marlins are 10-2 against the Nats.
The Braves are 3-5 against the Nats.
The Phils are 3-3 against the Nats.
The Mets are 5-4 against the Nats.
I’m not sure what all these numbers mean.
By David O'Brien
July 7, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Half the game is over, and we have one hit between two teams.
By Tomas
July 7, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
Lets jinx Kuroda. He will pitch a perfect game.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
AGTFan Thanks for posting what you think are spoiled bratty comments. I would have to guess you are pre-disposed to think badly of Francouer
Actually, I’ve never had a problem with Francy before. Maybe you are just predisposed to like him no matter what? Do you think he’s a hunk? Do you have his poster on your wall? I didn’t even get mad when he turned down the Braves long term contract offer and sent word thru his rep that he was expecting a deal similar to David Wright’s 55 million dollar deal. I just laughed at that but yeah, he came across as a whiny spoiled child to me and a whole host of other people on this blog. The comments were running about 75% to 25% of people who were taken aback by his comments. Not sure why you continue to single me out for it but ok. I can take whatever you want to dish out. : )
By ugaman
July 7, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
Hey everyone,
Haven’t posted in a few weeks, but I keep up with the blog regularly. I think it’s funny how much this blog is all over Franceur. I think many of you need to take three days and go to the minors yourselves and clear your head a little. Yes, Jeff blew off a little steam, but put yourself in his situation and see if you wouldn’t either. How many of you have yelled at your wife or kids for less stressors than this 24 year old kid is going through? In fact, how many of you have typed worse things on this blog at one time or another over pure frustration. Please give the kid a break. And yes, three days could be good enough to clear your head a get back to simple baseball techniques. Some of you need to go chill out and spend some bedtime with the wife or go get a shot of Jack and get away from the game for a few days.
By Murphy
July 7, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
zito, pavano, gagne. all terrible free agend signings.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
braves must have an appointment at heph’s place.
By Mike Piazza
July 7, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
I’m so happy the Mets won tonight- I’m gonna put on my chaps and lipstick and go clubbing!
By Chop Chop
July 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about the rest of ya, but I’d kinda like to see N8 and kirknga face off in a lengthy blog war.
Of course, I’d probably be forced to use a magnifying glass to see the scrollbar.
By JJMB
July 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
Interested Observer, yes, Hampton is an all-time horror by any definition. However, his contract was split up so much, it’s hard to pin the actual worst loser of the group.
By A-ville Ranger
July 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
Andruw is on a course to make over a million per rbi this season.It’ll be fun to see how Scott ”The golden dildo”Boras spins this one.
By Run Heap Run
July 7, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
C’mon gang, let’s jinx this no-no.
For a team coming off a 17 inning game and a 3:00 a.m. arrival the Bravos are holding their own against the homeboys.
By ugaman
July 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop: I’m not sure what all these numbers mean
I t just means that there is no rhyme or reason to this baseball thing. Especially in the NL East.
By TURTSNAP
July 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB after that last A. Jones pop up to KJ, I’d say AJ is getting more boos than CJ…. Man, that was some loud booing going on!!
By TURTSNAP
July 7, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Nice Little League pitch from Campy to Nomar…..
By Robin
July 7, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
….and Nomah kills a hanger. :(
C’mon bats!
By Pete
July 7, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
Nomar 2 run bomb 2-0 LA top 6
By Interested Observer
July 7, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
The boys are tired. They should have an exception to the “greenie” ban on days you have to fly across the country after 17 inning games.
By ugaman
July 7, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
OK, Campillo needs to bag the curve ball. It clearly is not working, especially when he hangs it.
On the trading Tex front, how about this, Tex to Boston for Sean Casey (batting about .369 as a part time player), John Lester, and a LF prospect. I would think Boston would jump at that opportunity.
By BA
July 7, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Yes Tomas, Kuroda WILL pitch a perfect game.
By Jeff321
July 7, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
Wow, Tex was pretty fast chasing down Kemp. Funny, I never noticed that when he hits the ball and trots at a rather slow pace.
By John
July 7, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
He has a perfect game going.
By Deep Throat
July 7, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
I’m out. Nothing worse than watching an inept, punchless offense make pitchers like Dave Bush, Kyle Kendrick, Adam Eaton, Chris Sampson, A.J. Burrnett (and his over five ERA) look like aces.
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about the rest of ya, but I’d kinda like to see N8 and kirknga face off in a lengthy blog war.
I don’t do blog wars here..lol!
There are just times where people say things that I don’t understand. So I ask questions. I love this blog and it deserves quality information along with opinion.
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 7, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur’s quick (really quick) recovery only proves that with a new manager and staff just think what this whole lineup could be doing!!!!!!! He’s not able to relate to young players the way he could back in the early 90s (when he was 17 years younger). He would be perfect to manage a team full of older guys who have their routine down already but most of our guys are trying to find that and he cant relate.
Can we get out of the 2009 deal with BC before he ruins next season also?
NO MORE BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By MurphyRules
July 7, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Never fails - any time the Braves CAN use an excuse, they will - “We had to play 17 innings yesterday and then fly cross country. We’re tired.”
God forbid they actually man up and show some heart. Instead, they’re going to be victims of a perfect game - trumping all momentum gained Sunday.
By keylargo
July 7, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
I’d prefer to have N8 & Kirknga just exchange email addresses.
By kdbanks
July 7, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
So did I jinx us or something? A “kdbanks no no” through six.
By geauxbraves2000
July 7, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
This guy is going to pitch a perfect game, isn’t he?
The Braves may be only a few games out on paper, but I don’t really see them challenging for any title. They’ve been mediocre for 2 1/2 years, and I just don’t see that potion that is going to magically turn this team around.
I hope I’m wrong.
Geaux Braves!!
By Jeff321
July 7, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
I know this isn’t logical, but it would be very funny if the Braves sold Frenchy to a team in Japan. Something tells me after playing there for 3 years.. he would think twice about smack talking, eh. (3 years based on the assumption he’s “locked up” until 2011)
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
kirknga, the contradiction of your previous comments and your 11:03 p.m. post confound me. You’ve been outspoken in support of the Tex trade and giving up five players, four considered top prospects, for him. Then you finish the last post with this statement:
“Lastly, people here have not shown that they have patience to develop young players for a few seasons while waiting to maybe win.”
You can’t jump the gun, belittling the talent of Elvis Andrus and Neftali Feliz because they’re not yet in the Majors at ages 19 and 20, and then turn around and say “let’s be patient, everybody.”
By KC
July 7, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
After a couple innings of watching Kuroda pitch, I knew we were going to lose this game.
DAMNIT!!!
I know it’s not their fault. Seeing Kuroda tonight, I know there’s nothing more the Braves can do. Logically, I know that… but I’m still pi$$ed off.
After a great long extra-inning win, I just wanted to see them follow it up with another W.
This sucks.
I sure hope Jurrjens is on his game tomorrow. We’ve got to start stringing together some series wins.
By Greg O.
July 7, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this
I love Vin Scully, but I’d be pulling my hair out if I were a Dodgers fan. He’s mentioned that Kuroda has pitched a perfect game to this point about five times in the last two minutes of air time.
By dgd
July 7, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this
Yes, let’s pretend that the Braves have a shot this season and forget about getting better for a year when we might REALLY have a shot. That’s certainly realistic. No, of course we’re not saying the team should roll over. But on this blog—not exactly the real world—where we’re giving opinions on the team and where we think it should go—the commentary is primarily driven by impatience, the need to win NOW. We all got spoiled by the 14 year run, and the front office—which for much of that run had top of the industry payroll to work with—had a win-now mentality. I’m just saying that I don’t believe that mentality works any longer with the pieces and payroll the team currently holds. I think it’s extremely unrealistic kirkuga to think that the Braves can win every year—as the past two years have shown—and if they don’t make moves with the future in mind, I think this run of mediocrity is going to be an extended one. Is it possible the Braves could re-sign Tex? Of course it’s possible, but given the team’s track record of dealing with Boras, of handing out top dollar contracts, of retaining big-time free agents other than homegrown players, I think it’s very slim odds—like 10%—that Tex will re-sign. So I think the responsible thing to do is deal him—if you can get decent return. And yes, I think Feliz and Andrus are likely to be stars, and Harrison just got called up to make his major league debut tomorrow for Texas (“the worst team in the majors”), which, if you were paying attention, you would know actually has a better record than the Braves. You could look it up.
By MurphyRules
July 7, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this
Some of you whiny fans REALLY need to grow a pair!
Oh, no, Frenchy said something somewhat controversial. Now we’re going to hate him forever. It’s the same crybaby attitude some of you had with Justice and Glavine.
People always want to rip on the Braves for being “robots.” Then when a Braves says something to rile up the masses, everyone wants to turn on him.
BUNCH OF BABIES!!!!
By geauxbraves2000
July 7, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
Way to go offense, way to make him work. Aaarrrggh.
By Bops
July 7, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
65 pitches through 7. Are you kidding me? SO much for carrying the momentum over from last night
By kirknga
July 7, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
With all that has happened this season, would getting no-hit really be a surprise?
By Thor
July 7, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
I am with you MurphyRules whatever momentum the Braves had after last night just flew out the proverbial window.
Back to the drawing board…again.
Maybe DOB can answer this - is there any team in the history of baseball to have two perfect games thrown against them??
There are only like 14 or so ever, so I would think that the answer is no. Leave it to this team.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
DOB,
By Tomas
July 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
No way in hell Kuroda will pitch a perfect game i already saw one by randy johnson and it wont happen again.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
DOB,
By mets fan in atlanta
July 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
how about the play by the Dodger 3rd baseman there? That’s the kind of play pitchers have to have in a nohitter/perfect game.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
DOB,
braves sure have wasted a ton of quality starts. seems if they dont hit early they don’t hit.
By I was a teenage Francophile
July 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
“I think when he comes back and he rakes… said catcher Brian McCann
Rakes? Frenchy would be perfect on the grounds crew! What a marvelous idea, Brian.
By AGTFan
July 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Not sure why you continue to single me out for it but ok. Didn’t mean to single you out. Your post happened to be the one I responded to. I just disagreed with your assessment of his comments. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me, but it seems like you’ve been bashing Francouer as long as you’ve been posting. I could be mistaken. As far as the 75% number you mentioned, I didn’t see it that strongly. I only saw a few of the regular posters who saw it that way and a slew of whiners who only jump on when there’s a chance bash someone.
I’m not a particular Francouer fan, but I pull for for all the players on the team and don’t believe in the bash and trash mentality that characterizes the fair-weather fans that seem to dominate this blog.
By uga-brave
July 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
sorry for the double post.
By Shamus Thacker
July 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
Just think, both Andruws are in the same ballpark. Gotta be some bad hitting carma going on…
By mark
July 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
You kinow with the hitting problems the Braves have and also a aging Chipper Jones I cant beleive they havent worked a deal to keep Tex a Brave the next 5 years…The Braves are slowly heading to be a last place team..why isnt ownership taking action..really when you look at it we have been a team that gets a rare needed peice ever since Ted Turner lost interest in the team,I mean these guys can’t hit a lick when it comes to putting together a group of hits to win the ball game.Right now they are being No Hit in LA by who??Its crazy Everyone knows howq important it is to strike first score few runs so that your starting pitcher is at ease a little more..this team has no chemistry WE NEED new OWNERSHIP, new Management so that the team can be led to be a winner not a pretender. Bobby Please retire after this season dont take your career down the tubes any more. I know Im just a grumpy Braves Fan but Gosh yall in 1991 and 1992 we didnt have all these power hitters that could hit 1-8 in the batting order but they did play as a team and were always solid up the middle and yes pitching was sweetThe brightest spot this season is Jurrgins and another good season by McCann..what in the world is Jason Veritek doing on the the All star game with a 217 avg..Jason really give youer spot to some one who deserves it..Good Day..im outs here!!!!
By Portman
July 8, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
Three TV shots we don’t need to see during Braves games.
Bobby Cox digging for gold in his nostrils.
Boog Sciambi’s Animal House haircut.
Joe Simpson’s daughter in the stands
By Kentavo
July 8, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Here’s the answer to whether yesterday’s marathon would lead to something good: NO! This team is Jeckyl and Hyde and can’t sustain anything except mediocrity.
KJ not getting Tex home from 3rd with one out is unacceptable, but typical of this Braves team.
By Tomas
July 8, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Thank you Tex.
By Greg O.
July 8, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Mark, you’ve never heard of Scott Boras, huh?
By keylargo
July 8, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
It just occurred to me that Yunel Escobar can emerge from his cocoon now that Vladimir Nunez, a fellow Cuban, is on the roster. I hope that junk is burried.
By kirknga
July 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
GregO
I’m sorry you’re confused. It’s simple really. None of the players the Braves gave up were considered by the Braves to be a “top prospect” except for Feliz.
Weren’t you paying attention to the reporting of DOB on this subject?
Salty is the only player that made the team, in a reserve role… at that. The pitchers you are touting weren’t good enough to make the worst rotation in baseball.
So to say at this point that those players were somehow going to form “the future” for the Braves is not true. My source for that statement? The Braves!
Perhaps you’re confused because you can’t figure out where any of those players would fit in?
We have a rookie shortstop, we have 4 rookies in the rotation, we have an ALL-Star catcher who is a young vet , we have young vets at 2nd base and RF. We have young arms in the pen who are our closer and set up men both lefty and righty.
So given those facts, how can you say that the future has been mortgaged when the future is already on the freakin field?
The Braves also have Lillbridge, Schafer, B. Jones, Hanson, Heyward, and others and in the pipeline.
And for the record, it’s you, not me who is asking people to be patient by suggesting we trade the veterans and rebuild.
By Mike in LA
July 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
That Kelly Johnson at bat in the eighth is symbolic of why the Braves are under achievers this year. All he has to do in that situation is shorten his swing and hit a f*g ground ball and its a two run game in the ninth inning. Say what you want about what a great swing he has (Yada yada yada). Bottom line is Prado hits a ground ball in that situation. It might not make a difference in this game but it sure has made a difference in at least a dozen losses this year. K Johnson and Francouer are two of the worst situational hitters I’ve ever seen on the Braves. Theres not a lack of star power on this team but rather a lack of heart and execution of fundamentals
By mets fan in atlanta
July 8, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
This popped up on MLB.com and since everyone was asking who the Braves might acquire after DOB’s mysterious statement earlier, i figured i would post.
*Carlyle was unavailable to pitch again Monday night, and after Sunday’s win, Cox announced that both Acosta and fellow right-handed reliever Jeff Bennett, whose right shoulder came out of place with a throw Saturday night, were going on the disabled list. In response, the only pitcher the Braves promoted from the Minor League system was right-handed reliever Vladimir Nunez, the former Marlins closer who hasn’t pitched in the Majors since 2004.
Another newcomer to the Braves bullpen Tuesday could be Julian Tavarez, who has been released by both the Red Sox and Brewers this season. The 35-year-old veteran posted a 7.20 ERA and saw opponents hit .356 against him in 16 combined appearances with those two teams this season.
Tavarez would cost the Braves the prorated portion of the Major League minimum salary of $390,000. The Red Sox are still paying him his $3.85 million salary for this season. He has posted a 4.46 ERA in 750 career Major League appearances.*
By A-ville Ranger
July 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
A quick look at some key Braves minor leaguers.Schafer at Mississippi and Hernandez at Myrtle Beach have both had a bad couple of weeks.Both are hitting well below .200 over the last 10 games.
On the Rome team Hayward just keeps ripping it up.He’s now hitting .340 for the year and .410 over his last 10 games.He also 14 sb and a .897 ops.
Also at Rome Frederick Freeman the 19 year old first baseman is hitting .300 with 23 2b 12 hr and a .861 ops.He’s hitting .341 over his last 10 games.
By I was a teenage Francophile
July 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
After a good initial at bat, Jason Perry has become Corkyfied.
By Original Jon
July 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
So let me get this straight, we have a 7-2 record against the Mets, but a 1-8 record against the Phils, who have a 3-7 record against those same Mets that we have beat 7 out of 9 times. That’s baseball for ya, strange and complicated, but oh so much fun.
By keylargo
July 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
1 for 28.
By Original Jon
July 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Ohhhh, and how great is it that we almost had a perfect game thrown against us by a guy that was 4-6 coming into this game. Another run of the mill pitcher made to look like Cy Young by our meager batting order.
By Rabiddawg
July 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Come on people. Are you really expecting the Braves to make a run at anything? I have been a braves fan for 30 years, and in that time I have learned one thing about the braves. Mediocraty is acceptable for this team and the upper management. I love the braves and always will, but I have learned not to expect victories (even in the so called dynasty years). I mean one title with what 14 straight playoff appearances? The Marlins are what, 2 for 2 (could be mistaken). Does any other team reward sub par play and managing more than the braves? Until we make the moves necessary to win like the Phillies, Red Sox, Yanks, etc.. we will continue to be average to below average. One more thought is that TP needs to be let go tomorrow. Ever since he has ben the hittin coach, the hitting has been atrocious. They dont work the count and constantly swing at early in the count junk. He is pathetic. Just my opinion.
By A-ville Ranger
July 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
So much for momentum.
By Tomas
July 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
Kuroda just overpowered this offense. Totally dominant performance, hopefully the braves can forget about this one and come back tomorow and win.
By Eman
July 8, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
expected start to the road trip
i suspect they’ll win just 2 on this 6 game trip. No worries, this team is offensively over rated and people need to wake up and see this
though this game did make me see something from them, if they can turn a 17 inning win into a one hit shutout they’ll finish at least 10 games below 500 at seasons end
oh and braves, if i hear one excuse you played a long game yesterday which is why you lost, get out of the major leagues you don’t belong
By kirknga
July 8, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Well on a good note, Campillo pitched well enough and everyone who pitched yesterday got the night off.
By Kentavo
July 8, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
Is Kotsay hurt again? Why did BC pull double switch on him - to get the feared Norton in the lineup?
By uga-brave
July 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
nice effort tonight, but on the bright side no one got hurt.
another good pitching effort wasted again. braves saw an average of 10 pitches an inning.
the ted might be a lonely place come late august and september.
i guess you just have to tip your cap to kuroda, sampson, burnett, hammels, sheets, dempster, not much you can do, right?
By BravesFanChris23
July 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
We got beat by a good pitcher, plain and simple. No reason to complain about what Braves didn’t do. Even Chipper couldn’t get a hit.
By I was a teenage Francophile
July 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
So let me get this straight, we have a 7-2 record against the Mets, but a 1-8 record against the Phils, who have a 3-7 record against those same Mets
In the Eastern Division the transitive property of team comparisons does not hold.
By dwaynerice
July 8, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Come on folks, if Jeff is still with the Braves when he can become a free agent, he is leaving regardless, even before this AA business. He wants the big bucks, no real affection for the organization, and this latest “betrayed/hurt feelings” deal will only serve to make the wound fester, the original wound being (in his mind) being low-balled with previous Braves’ contract offers. His sights are set for bigger horizons than Atlanta, but you can’t blame it all on him, he was like the Second Coming as the Braves, SI, etc. promoted him. And we believed it, we so wanted to believe it. The whole business has left a wretched taste in my mouth, not to mention all the injuries, underperforming, lack of clutch, one run loss fiascos, etc. I still watch and root, been with ‘em since the Pepe Frias days, and don’t wanna go back there in my lifetime. If the Bravos can at least be entertaining and competitive the rest of the way, hopefully, not totally giving up on this season, but purposefully and intelligently evaluate, plan, and choose talent for the future and learn from our mistakes, and Liberty, for God’s sake, get up off some of that money, we can look forward to a better 2009. I don’t know about you guys, but each year when the Braves season is done, regardless of the outcome, it feels like a hard hit in the gut…miss them so much and can’t for them to return the following spring. “Hope springs eternal…”
By Reid in EAV
July 8, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
DOB, 10:38 p.m. — thanks. Mac’s comments did put a pretty clear point on it. It’s clear that too much “thinking,” particularly when his usual ways didn’t work for him early in the season, tied Jeff in knots. So he’ll be the aggressive free swinger he’s always been.
And if he sees the ball well and can drive in 100 a year, that’s fine. But that approach certainly has a hard ceiling, and I hope he gets beyond the youthful and “counterproductive” era to bust through that sooner rather than later. I think he’s capable of a 1.0+ OPS, rather than the .7s and .8s he usually hovers in.
And as Chipper put it down at Dark Star: “You know, there’s a wall in right field too.”
Meanwhile, down on the ranch, stellar opposing pitching performances like this would be easier to take if we didn’t go in to similar states of hibernation against 5.00+ ERA guys on the road.
By Marc
July 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
DOB,
How about the Kotsay on Hanson notes?
By Goaltender
July 8, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Say good night Gracie!!!
By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 8, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
And the good news is……only 72 more games of this enigmatic futility, then we can start looking forward to 2009.
By Robin
July 8, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
i guess you just have to tip your cap to kuroda, sampson, burnett, hammels, sheets, dempster, not much you can do, right?
You’re right UGA, they’ve been slapping a beat-down on everybody else too though.
And Frenchie, if you hate it here so much, don’t sweat it pal. I seriously doubt you’ll be around come the first of Aug. You know what they say ……..door ……………a$$!!!
By JEB
July 8, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
* Whatever we do - we need to release, send down, whatever… Corky Miller!!*
This is getting so sad, that we can’t give our catcher a day off!! The main reason is that our team suffers when we put our backup catcher in!
Brian McCann couldn’t even get a day off yesterday. Corky was 0 for 3 with 2 K’s. His batting avg. is under .100, if we go through this week and still keep him on the roster - something is wrong here!
Javy Lopez could DEFINITLY do better than Corky!! If we don’t call up Sammons or Phillips, then call Javy!!
By Edward
July 8, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
when does the Football season starts!!!…..this braves season has been SOOOOO boring….zzzZzzzz…they got into hibernation mode when they left from Spring Training, then Injuries mismanagement happened,Players Decline year,etc and there goes the Season…i say the Braves finish 78-84…and thats a reach…after ALL!! we have to face the FACT that this is a SUB-.500 this season and has been in the last few years,BARELY a .500 team…that DOESNT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS….MEDIOCRITY will take the Braves NOWHERE…except 4th or LAST place in the NL EAST
By MAV
July 8, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this
Coach Why do you keep coming back to this blog like a damn rash. If you say you are going togo away. Please do it! Your nonsense is not needed here.
By kirknga
July 8, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this
One more thought is that TP needs to be let go tomorrow
Have you looked at TP’s record? Are you aware that the Braves have achieved franchise records under his tutelage?
Where you calling to fire him the past two seasons when the Braves scored more runs than all but 2 NL teams?
By Fat Lady
July 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
Is this Tone O.K.? ….i think its PRETTY CLEAR!!!
By AZBravoFan
July 8, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
So how seriously are the Braves trying to add a power bat? I’m not sure they can’t hang around until the 31st to pull a deadline deal. This offense needs a jumpstart NOW. Fire in the pressbox, all that good stuff.
By chrisklob
July 8, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
I’m not a big fan of Francoeur being promoted today. However, looking at it from FW’s point of view, I can understand why he might have done it. Yesterday was costly, in that the Braves were forced to put three players on the DL.
That meant that three players had to be brought back to ATL unless they wanted to play “short” (which, they’ve essentially done for a good part of the year since certain guys couldn’t find a way to get in a game if their very lives depended on it.) The hard part was deciding who to bring back.
The choices were effectively limited to the players currently listed on the 40-man roster, which, as I count it, is full. If they wanted to promote another player, someone would have had to have been removed from the 40-man, which would have exposed them to waivers. Clearly, the Braves felt that there was no one on the 40-man roster that is expendable.
Looking at the 40-man roster and sizing up what the Braves current needs are, it appears to me that Brandon Jones and Jeff Francoeur are really the only two “qualified” players. The difference here may have been the simple fact that JF hits righty, Jones is a lefty and the Braves have plenty of lefty bats, especially thinking about how many LHPs the Braves see this year.
Frenchy had a pretty good weekend at Mississippi. Without looking at the numbers, I know he hit over .500. While that is a very small sample size, FW et al may have been encouraged by that and by what they heard from Wellman and his crew.
Frenchy’s demotion may have been, and should have been a wake-up call for the Golden Boy. You have to produce, or else. If he looks at it like that, I predict that he’ll come back to Atlanta with something to prove.
At least that is what I hope happens.
By Serge45
July 8, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
The Braves are 7-5 in games Corky Miller starts, good for a .583 winning percentage. In games he doesn’t start, they are 35-43, good for a .449 winning percentage.
Ergo, the more games Corky Miller starts, the more games the Braves will win.
By rupert
July 8, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this
kotsay hasn’t looked near 100% since coming back, his swing was really looking good before his back went out, you just have to hope his season isnt essentially lost at this point, anyone who has had a sports related back injury, hell just a back injury will tell you that it is pretty tough to get back without a lot of rest, playing baseball, swinging a bat would seem to very counterproductive to that, just observing he might be gutting it out for the team….
By mets fan in atlanta
July 8, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, your game story says that Philly was off today. Fortunately for the braves, Philadelphia lost to the Mets 10-9….so the Braves stay only 6 games back, however they are now 3.5 games behind the Mets. Both numbers were wrong in the article…the Marlins won as well, so that one may need updating too, not sure on that one.
By monetnj
July 8, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
DOB, there is a mistake in the column you just filed on ajc.com. Phillies were not idle tonight. They lost to the Mets 10-9. Braves remain 6 behind Philly, but are now 4.5 behind Florida and 3.5 behind NY.
By Mike S
July 8, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
Joe Simpson’s daughter in the stands
Was that Luke Wilson sitting with Margaret Simpson tonight?
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Mets fan, thanks. Got it fixed online (and fortunately, a very diligent copy editor caught my boneheaded mistake before it made any papers).
I made the mistake of glancing at the mlb.com scoreboard tonight and relying on it when i was looking up info on no-hitters and such. For whatever reason, either that Phils game wasn’t on it or I overlooked it in my haste.
anyway … thanks.
By Chop Chop
July 8, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
Frenchy’s sitting in the Hollywood Hawaiian Hotel and staring in his empty coffee cup.
He’s thinkin’ that the gypsy wasn’t lyin’.
Andruw’s eatin’ all the Dodger Dogs in Los Angeles.
And bloggers are stayin’ up.
And if the Bravos’ chances sink into the ocean
Like the critics/clutch statistics say they will
I predict that I will still be blogging until I’ve had my fill.
(Ahhh…a little snippet of Zevon for the West Coast trip…)
DOB, how about going with one of these songs tomorrow…
“I Was In the House When the House Burned Down”, “Genius”, “I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead”, “Play It All Night Long”, “Reconsider Me” (for Frenchy, of course)
I would list a lot of other songs, but you’ve already done a lot of Warren’s stuff (and maybe even one or two of what I’ve mentioned).
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
Murphyrules, that’s a good question, about the two perfect games thrown at a team. I’m certain no team has had TWO thrown at them in five years. Braves avoided that fate, at least.
I really thought it was going to happen after six or seven innings tonight, the way they were going down so quickly and efficiently.
I was in scramble mode looking up info, and then my laptop starts going haywire and not allowing me to store my game story. So I had to reboot it during seventh inning, and that took forever … damn, it was getting chaotic.
Then Tex delivered the clean hit. Mercifully. Didn’t need my second West Coast no-hitter (AJ Burnett for Marlins at San Diego was the first).
By monetnj
July 8, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
Nevermind, I see you have updated your column. One small mistake left:
“Teixeira will be a free after after the season and is represented by hard-driving agent Scott Boras.”
I assume you meant “free agent after.”
By dre
July 8, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
There is nothing about the braves batting line-up nor pitching staff that is intimidating to other teams these days.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this
So how nasty did Kuroda’s stuff look on TV?
Oh, and here’s Kotsay on Hanson (I warned you, it’s not lengthy):
“Good young kid. He’s got to work some on his location, but he’s got three pitches he can use at this [major league] level.
“His fastball, he’s got a two-seamer, and four-seamer, so he throws anywhere from 85-89 [with the two-seamer] to 94-95 [with the four-seamer]
“Any time you can change speeds with the fastball, with movement, you’re gonna have success.”
By KC
July 8, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this
Fun pitching matchup coming up in the next series. If the rotations shake out as it appears they will… it’ll be Campillo VS. Maddux 5 days from now in SD. Two pitchers who get it done in much the same way.
Only fun if we come out with the W though.
By Mike S
July 8, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
DOB, Kuroda looked quite filthy. Everything he threw was down (except the pitch Tex hit) and diving further down. He did get the benefit of a lot of borderline low strike calls, which I’m sure helped him stay down there with so many balls, but his stuff definitely had heavy sinking action on it tonight.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 8, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this
The Brooklyn Dodgers were perfect-game victims of Don Larsen in 1956, and the Los Angeles Dodgers had perfectos thrown against them by Tom Browning of the Reds in 1988 and Dennis Martinez in the early 1990s.
The Twins had perfect games thrown against them by Catfish Hunter in 1968 and David Wells in 1998.
Harvey Haddix pitched 12 perfect innings against the Milwaukee Braves in 1959, the greatest game ever pitched, even though he lost in the 13th. Randy Johnson was perfect against the Atlanta Braves in 2004.
By gayle
July 8, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
DOB, if you can get the bean counters at the AJC to cough up for your Harley ride up the coast, you should immediately drop the column and tell Selig to pack his bags!
By THB
July 8, 2008 2:14 AM | Link to this
Kirknga-You just don’t get it man. I’m not gonna argue, but I do believe the best thing we can do with Tex is lock him up for a 5 year deal. It’s gonna take a 7 or 8 year deal though.
Mississippi won tonight, 4-3. Kris Medlen started the game and pitched 7 innings of 3 run ball and 10 K’s. He’s had a very, very nice transition to the rotation. He’s only 22 and in AA. I think he’s on the rise as a prospect. But Schafer went 0 for 3 with a BB and 2 K’s. His OBP is okay but he hasn’t been getting it done lately.
Jeff Locke has been fantastic in his last 5 or 6 starts. His ERA is down to 3.83 for the year. Tonight he pitched 7 innings of no run ball. Heyward is just nasty, as is Freeman. Both are teenagers tearing up A-ball.
Gorkys Hernandez has cooled off considerably. He’s probably in a slump but his numbers are still good. BA is at .283 (down from a consistent .310) and he’s stealing bases. Tyler Flowers is an OBP machine, almost as many BB (63) as K’s (65). OBP is over .400.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
THB, you mentioned Medlen. When I asked Kotsay about Hanson and the no-hitter, Kotsay also mentioned — unsolicited — Medlen and what a good prospect he is.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop, I’ve definitely used a lot of Zevon, including “I Was In The House When The House Burned Down,” one of my favorites of his.
They played “Lawyers, Guns and Money” over the closing credits in the new Hunter Thompson documentary. perfect choise.
By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 8, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this
Hey guys, Corky Miller isn’t the only problem. Brian McCann is on pace to start 142 games which is about ten more than he started in 2007. That said, if Mac goes down with an injury later on this season, I’ll be the first one to call for the immediate firing of Bobby Cox.
There is no way that Brian McCann can keep up with this workload. Hell, Javy Lopez never played more than 138 games total in any one season during the twelve years while he was in Atlanta and Johnny Estrada topped out at 134 total.
McCann started 118 games and played in 130 total in 2006.
McCann started 130 games and played in 139 in 2007.
He has played in 84 games so far (started 78) in 2008 and is on pace to start 142 and play in 150.
Cox is abusing his starting catcher and now everybody who reads this blog can say they are aware of the emerging drama.
By Chop Chop
July 8, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this
Yeah, DOB. HST was the man. I’ll have to check that doc out.
I actually have “Lawyers, Guns And Money” as my ringtone. I normally hate ringtones, but I don’t mind 15 to 20 seconds of that song disturbing me.
Caffeine’s wearing off. Time to crash.
By Greg O.
July 8, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this
kirknga, in response to your 12:11 a.m. post:
No offense to DOB. No offense to the Braves. But your sources aren’t exactly the best on the issue. DOB often says that he doesn’t have time to follow the minor league system closely, especially guys that are a few years away. And what exactly do you think the Braves are going to tell him? That they just mortgaged the future of the franchise in hope of winning in the next two years? Fat chance of that. So, in the end, you’ve got a guy who doesn’t follow the minor league system closely, regurgitating what the Braves’ brass has told him. Again, that’s not to sound disparaging toward DOB. If I were in DOB’s position, I’d do the same. Moreover, as someone who works in media relations at a Division I college athletic department, I know the way that a team like the Braves would handle this type of situation. There’s always a way to create a positive spin and no G.M. or front office rep would go on record as saying something negative about a trade.
But as someone who scours Baseball America (magazine and online content, as well as their yearly Prospect Handbook), someone who follows the stats on MiLB.com on a daily basis, and reads up on stories about the minor league system, written by people who actually saw the games, I’d say my sources are more likely to be accurate. Just as I wouldn’t look to the Myrtle Beach Pelicans’ beat writer to tell me about the Atlanta Braves, I wouldn’t look to DOB to tell me about a player on the Myrtle Beach Pelicans.
I would, however, listen to a publishing company that makes a very large sum of their bank on scouting the minor leagues (Baseball America). In last year’s Baseball America Prospect Handbook, they ranked Saltalamacchia the Braves’ top prospect, followed by Andrus at No. 2 and Harrison at No. 3… and you’re going to believe the Braves if they say they didn’t give up any of their top prospects in the deal??? As for Feliz, the jury was still out with him having only thrown 39 professional innings at the time of the book’s publishing and BA ranked him No. 18 in the system. Beau Jones was ranked No. 14. So, that’s five of the Braves top 18 prospects, from a reputable source. I’m gonna go ahead and stick to my guns about the Braves giving up plenty of their farm system in that deal. Sure, they did a great job of bringing more talent in through the past two drafts and had a good foundation still left. But that doesn’t mean that the top-tier prospects that they gave up couldn’t produce for the Braves in the next several years. And having a well-stocked farm system doesn’t mean that the players traded away couldn’t help the team in the future, while Tex is in another team’s uniform after not playing on a Braves’ playoff team. That’s not to be confused with blaming Tex. It’s just that if the Braves don’t at least make the playoffs in his two years with the club, what did they really accomplish in dealing for him?
I absolutely disagree with your “the future is already on the field” view. I’ll give you Escobar, McCann, Jurrjens and maybe Reyes as guys whom will construct the future. I’m pulling for Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur, Brandon Jones and Charlie Morton. But I’m not altogether confident in them. And I’d like to thank you for the laugh I enjoyed from your lumping of Jorge Campillo into the four rookies in the rotation comment. He’ll be 30 in August. Let’s hold the phone on his expectations.
By Roman Gal
July 8, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
For those wondering about how Jordan Schafer is doing, it’s not as bad as it seems. He’s hitting into some bad luck. I listen to a bunch of Mississippi games and he’s hitting a ton of at-‘em balls. He had a good June and he’s just been in a slump so far this month. He’s still striking out a lot, too, but that’s just something he’ll have to work on. He’s also playing excellent defense.
Also, Jason Heyward has been missing some time lately because of a sore left hamstring. He played tonight going 2-4 but left in the 8th inning.
By Quack Quack
July 8, 2008 3:42 AM | Link to this
Kirk
I didn’t say that Corky was better, I said what has been discussed in many places about why it happened. The fact that he never once played in the field should say something.
I would certainly like someone other that Corky up here, but I don’t get a vote any more than you do. I watched Pena a lot in the minors. Has only real asset is a decent BA. No power, no walks, and no real trust from his pitchers. The years have certainly proven that Cox is going to take defense first in his backup players and that’s what happened again.
As to why Fasano or now Phillips weren’t used, I’ve no idea. Perhaps Cox feels like Fasano’s .220 career BA wouldn’t be much better than Corky. I’m sure they expected him(Corky) to hit better than .100. But I do know why Pena wasn’t used, plus the guy cleared waivers twice with only KC biting.
By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 8, 2008 4:39 AM | Link to this
This is quite an interesting article:
HOW BASEBALL IS RIGGED FOR LEFTIES
In the general public, about 10 percent of people are left-handed. In Major League Baseball, about 25 percent of players are lefties. Any serious fan knows some of the reasons why certain positions favor lefties, but David Peters has come up with a laundry list of reasons to explain this anomaly.
Peters is an aircraft engineer and professor at Washington University in St. Louis, and a devoted Cardinal’s fan. This week, he shared his reasons why the game is rigged to favor southpaws.
The ballparks: Right field in most parks is shorter than left field because of the preponderance of right-handed hitters.
Seeing the ball: “A right-handed batter facing a right-handed pitcher actually has to pick up the ball visually as it comes from behind his (the batter’s) left shoulder. The left-handed batter facing the right-handed pitcher has the ball coming to him, so he has a much clearer view of pitches.”
Getting going: After a right-hander connects with a ball, his momentum spins him toward the third-base side. He must regroup to take even his first step toward first base. A left-hander’s momentum carries him directly toward first. “The left-handed batter has a 5-foot advantage over the right-handed batter,” Peters calculates. “And that means the lefty travels the 90 feet to first roughly one-sixth of a second faster than the righty. That translates to more base hits for the left-hander, whether singles or extra base hits because lefties are getting to the bases more quickly.”
Pitching: The left-handed pitcher generally is much more difficult to steal off. From his stretch, he peers directly at the runner; the right-hander must look over his shoulder and wheel to first base, giving the runner more of a warning of the pitcher’s intent.
Fielding: First base and right field favor lefies. The favorable angles lefties allow them to throw the ball more quickly across the diamond to second, third and home.
Just being different: “Because only 10 percent of the population is left-handed, kids grow up and mature in baseball seeing a left-hander just 10 percent of the time they bat,” he points out. “So, it can be hard for both lefties and righties to face a southpaw. It’s why some left-handed batters look dreadful matched against a lefty.” Some batters don’t like facing southpaws because their ball is purported to have a natural movement away from a right-hander and into a lefty. “There’s no scientific evidence to support this, but I wonder if lefties get that movement from learning to write in a right-hander’s world,” Peters says.
Not catching on: One position a lefty rarely plays is catcher; it is difficult for a southpaw catcher to throw over so many right-hand batters
By nolie
July 8, 2008 4:51 AM | Link to this
Does anyone know the record for highest batting avg. by a switch hitter? I would think that might be a record that Chipper has a legit shot at, assuming it’s somewhere in the .380 or lower range.RC
I believe it is Mantle’s .365 in 1957.
By Bravo Nam
July 8, 2008 5:24 AM | Link to this
DOB
I missed you…Carole and Thomas were great…but they’re not you…you post a ton of comments and always have additional inside info that no one else has.
Frenchie
The Braves made the right move in sending him down…but they should’ve left him down for at least 10 days…his difficulties seemed to be as much mental as physical, and I’m not sure that three days is enough of a mental break…but most importantly, it sends out the wrong kind of a message…it looks more like the Braves responding to pressure from a disgruntled player rather than following through on their original plan.
By nolie
July 8, 2008 6:15 AM | Link to this
They can’t move on to college football, you know.DOB
I swear that they used to. Bobby Cox became Bobby Bowden and the Braves became the Seminoles. With the chop egging them on they were in the top 4 a record 13 or 14 times in a row but only won 2 national titles. …Was it all just a dream?
By nolie
July 8, 2008 6:30 AM | Link to this
The Braves are 3rd in batting average and 3rd in OBP, so their overall approach seems to be pretty good. Their power is down (they are only 7th in SLG) but that’s mostly because Teixeira’s SLG this season is much lower than his career SLG and because of Francoeur. Also, throw Diaz in there as someone who underachievedShaun
Shaun, there are a certain percentage of bloggers on this(and every really) board who demand someone to blame. Whether it’s Cox, Frenchy ,Pendleton or whomever.. They either don’t grasp or simply won’t accept the idea that the game was created in a way to make things difficult without anybody necessarily being at fault.. At least Kirk is usually not a total ranter about it.
By Braveheart
July 8, 2008 6:34 AM | Link to this
Francoeur has switched from Delta to Southwest Airlines.
New commercial:
Francoeur striking out, Francoeur feebly grounding out to short, Francoeur reading blogs where people call him Francine and Stenchy, Francoeur’s rabbit ears listening to people trash him on talk radio, Francoeur getting advice from everyone and their mother, Francoeur’s wife asking him if he’s human, Francoeur in an emotional sitdown with his bosses, Francoeur’s major league manager picking his nose, Francoeur’s minor league manager doing the fake grenade toss
Wanna get away?
By Moby Grape
July 8, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this
So if the chef comes in drunk and burns your steak to a crisp, you choke it down and declare it wonderful because, after all… he is a chef
!Frenchy Joke
LOL. nope you go find a place where the chef is more to your taste. You sure don’t get to go into the kitchen and tell him how to do it. Perhaps not the best analogy huh?
By Quack Quack
July 8, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this
Let me guess, you’re one of these guys that would trade the farm for a guy like Jason Bay?Efrim
I don’t know about trading the farm, but Bay is already producing at a level that very few prospects of any kind will ever produce at. How about an established MLB player and a high prospect? Prospects are called prospects cause they have not proven that they can produce at the major league level and it’s a fairly small percentage who ever significantly do, even of those who are highly rated.
By SNIPER-69
July 8, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
By the end of this road trip the braves may officialy become “Sellers”. It seems the braves weren’t as talented, healthy and young as many here on the blog thought. DOB I don’t think your IF’S and MAYBE’S are gonna get you out of this one. Bringing up Franceour after just three games has me and many other’s scratching our heads. As For my Mets, they still have a ways to go to fulfill their potential but they may be on their way. Pedro looked fine yesterday, Delgado is seeing the ball much better and Heilman seems to have turned the corner and been effective in his last few outings. Lets see how they play during their current homestand.
By andy
July 8, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
If this minor league coach straightened out Francouers swing in just 3 days, exactly what is Terry Pendleton’s job?
By Moby Grape
July 8, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this
Max Ramirez is .363 .457 .662 1.119 in AA ball. He had a great season last year too. He can really rake and might be an impact hitter on an AL team. I don’t know if he could have been taught to play first or not.
By NCBravesFan
July 8, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
I love this blog and enjoy reading it … but I do hope that Frenchy goes on about a 20 game tear so a few of you can grab a hearty cup of STFU.
By Mark W
July 8, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this
All I can say is , is “showcase’ this guy in second half of season, hope he picks it up……and then TRADE him anywhere, he showed his true colors…..also, I am amazed at how much coverage this receives, a young millionaire who was told to ‘work it out” by his boss, and then he whines through your newspaper…..come on…..grow up Jeff F….many people would give anything to make 20% of your salary each year.
By Braveheart
July 8, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
Sniper, your Mets have three healthy regulars with an OPS+ over 100. Your starting rotation has one pitcher with an ERA+ significantly over 100. Your closer chokes away everything. Worry about your own crappy team.
By Frenchy Joke
July 8, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
Moby Grape
So if the chef comes in drunk and burns your steak to a crisp, you choke it down and declare it wonderful because, after all… he is a chef
!Frenchy Joke
LOL. nope you go find a place where the chef is more to your taste. You sure don’t get to go into the kitchen and tell him how to do it. Perhaps not the best analogy huh?
Actually, I thought it was a great analogy. It’s about context, which your chosen words of a complete post left out. Just because management are “professionals” in their field doesn’t mean they are perfect.
To go on with the analogy, I get the crappy steak. I’ve committed to the restaurant, brought my family, ordered my meal and received a crappy product. When I get the check (and I will get the check) I have the right to point out to the management that the service was not good and the product was even worse. I have a right to expect a decent product when I’m the person paying for the product. (yes, I do go to Turner Field, so I’m paying for the product the Braves are putting on the field) Can I go to another place to eat and not return to this establishment? Sure I can, but I don’t change team rooting preferences based on who is winning and not. So your analogy about finding a place where the chef is more to my taste sounds a bit lame unless your version of fandom includes jumping from team to team depending on which way the wind is blowing.
Do I go to the kitchen and body slam the chef for a crappy meal? No. Would I be allowed to go into Frank Wren’s or Bobby Cox’s office to complain about the team? No.
But you know what Moby? This is a blog. It’s a place where people post opinions. I can’t tell Wren or Cox my feelings directly concerning the product I’m seeing on TV and when I pay the admission to the Ted. So I’m dropping my little tidbits into the suggestion box which is this blog.
I do stand by what I was trying to state initially with the analogy and that is some people have “God” complexes. Not the kind when they think they are God, the kind where they view powerful people as Gods and would never question their motives or judgment. Too many people never question the judgment of those in positions of authority. Need an example of that? How ‘bout looking at the state of our country today. Recession, war, gas prices through the roof. Too many people nodding their head in agreement while people in power have been telling us they know what’s best for us. The “professionals” have done a great job of putting this country in the place we are in. And before anyone goes off on this statement, it’s bipartisan. There’s plenty of blame to go around.
By Braveheart
July 8, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
Pedro looked fine yesterday,
Five and a third innings, 1.51 WHIP, 2 homers and he looked fine to you? A mighty fine Chuck James-ian performance indeed. Oh, how the mighty Pedro has fallen.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Quack Quack, Bay is obviously a great player but he’s 29 and his contract runs through 2009. That means after the 2009 season he is probably going to command a huge deal. Some team will have to overpay and over-commit to him after 2009 (not to mention the players the Pirates would want for him). I’d just assume it not be the Braves.
By TommyP
July 8, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
Coach: Could you provide a link to that article? Sounds like a good read.
DOB: Great quotes from McCann and Kelly on the Franceour situation and on Hanson, Medlen. That’s why I pay big money for this site….errrr, wait a minute.
Question for ya: Since you love to ride the bike, did you read the story about the guy in Georgia that was killed when he hit a deer? How often do you think about that sort of thing when, say, you’re riding in North Georgia?
Just curious…
By Robert
July 8, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Cox was so upset that Frenchy wasnt there that he was hee-hawing uncontrollably, so they had to recall Frenchy.
Last night, he was hee-hawing with delight. “Frenchy’s back! Frenchy’s back And Glavey’s coming back. And Hampty’s coming back”
Meanwhile the Braves were the usual easy outs at the plate
SSDD
By n
July 8, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
okay since Max Ramirez only has 25 ab and you don’t throw the towel in on him then why do people on here bash B. Jones and other such young talent?Bamafan
we shouldn’t be totally giving up on anybody yet though both looked pretty poor in AAA this year. The biggest difference I see is that Max has had some monster years in the minors, much better than Jones or Lillibridge.
By Lew
July 8, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
SSDD-Yes, Robert, you usually are. Go get your Twinky.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, Pedro struck out six and walked three, giving up only two runs against a good offensive team in their good home hitters park.
The only problem is he didn’t go that deep into the game.
That said, I think it’s clear the Mets can’t count on Pedro to be much more than a league average starter for 5-6 innings a start, at most. Yesterday was about the best they are likely to get.
By Lew
July 8, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
Robert-What I meant to say was your COMMENTS were SSDD. Sorry about disparaging your character. Have another Twinky and send me the bill. Grab a cup of coffee, too.
By Braveheart
July 8, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, Pedro struck out six and walked three, giving up only two runs against a good offensive team in their good home hitters park.
Geez, Shaun, get a sense of humor. When we’re engaging in psychological blog warfare with the Mets fans, we’re not trying to be rational and objective.
By McFann©
July 8, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2009) [But 2008 Is Still A Possibility] Cox is abusing his starting catcher and now everybody who reads this blog can say they are aware of the emerging drama.
I’ve brought this up before. He’s playing too much! 142 starts is a heck of a lot of games for a catcher.
McCann can’t buy a day off this year. I mean, he’s s’posed to get one Sunday, and what happens? He ends up catching more innings than the guy that started behind the plate!
And just look at his offensive numbers this month: 6-25 (.240), with one homer, 3 RBI, 2 2B, 3 SO, and 1 walk…his OBP is .296 this month!
I’ve tried to be patient with Corky…I’ve tried to tell myself, “Well, he just can’t hit because he doesn’t play enough to get in a groove”…but no. Now I think it would be nice to have a BUC who cann hit, so Bobby wouldn’t feel this need to start McCann every freakin’ day! Maybe Corky would hit better if he played more, but we may never know because Bobby’s not gonna play him enough for us to find out! Did that make sense? Uh……
Did I mention that McCann is 0 for his last 9??
I’m not sure I’d fire Bobby if McCann goes down with an injury later (or sooner, but please no!). But I won’t be too happy with him, that’s for darn sure—especially if it happened during a DGANG. (I gotta tell ya, I cringed every time Daren Erstad got on base during the Houston series. I was yelling at them, “DON’T LET HIM SCORE!!”)
So come on, Bobby. Do the man a favor: Give him a day off! And during the late innings, if you need a pinch hitter, use Timmy! (Or Ho-Ho, ‘cause I know he’s a “great hitter”.)
By CatcherInTheWry
July 8, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
I think he’s capable of a 1.0+ OPS, rather than the .7s and .8s he usually hovers in.Reid
What??? Do you know how few players do that? What has ever led you to believe that Jeff could even come close? To do that you have to have a good OBP and Jeff’s is putrid. That has to rank as one of the most unrealistic comments that I have ever read on this board.
By Run Heap Run!
July 8, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Hey I forgot to ask last night when DOB noted it but why on earth would Dodger fans boo Chipper?
By opieandy
July 8, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Guys,
What’s up with the navy caps the Braves are wearing? Looks like 1966. I kinda like it. Have been on vacation and missed a bunch of games, but came home to see the navy hats 2 games in a row, so I’m wondering if they’ve permanently switched.
By Do the Math
July 8, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Seventy-two games left. Six games out of the division lead and (for the moment) firmly entrenched in fourth place. Eight games out in the wild card race.
Braves have to go 42-30 the rest of the way to win 84 games; 46-26 to win the 88 games Coach has deemed necessary to play in October. So in just 90 games, Braves have put themselves in the position of needing to play 20 games over .500 from here on out to have a good shot.
Hope Chipper stays healthy.
I’m certain no team has had TWO (perfect games) thrown at them in five years.
Don’t be so certain, Dave. The Dodgers were perfecto’ed two times in FOUR years: by Tom Browning in 1988 and Dennis Martinez in 1991. Those were good Dodger teams, too — the ‘88 team won the World Series and the ‘91 squad finished one game behind the Braves, who got a lot of help that September from the rest of the National League.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
McFann© and Coach,
“Abusing his starting catcher” and “drama”? I haven’t heard McCann complain. And he’s the second-best hitter on the team.
And when you say he’s hitting .240 this month, you are talking about 7 games and 27 plate appearances.
And I’d say Chipper is a bigger injury risk than McCann. Should they give him more days off?
You have to play your best players. Injuries happen and that’s a risk you take. This are pro athletes playing a somewhat risky game. You have to balance that with trying to win.
It’s not as if McCann is not getting days off. He’s getting a day off every 4-5 days and when the team has an off-day.
Plus aside from the ankle injury, when has McCann had any major injury issues? Again, your best players have to play if you want to win.
By Moby Grape
July 8, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
I would, however, listen to a publishing company that makes a very large sum of their bank on scouting the minor leagues (Baseball America). In last year’s Baseball America Prospect Handbook, they ranked Saltalamacchia the Braves’ top prospect, followed by Andrus at No. 2 and Harrison at No. 3… and you’re going to believe the Braves if they say they didn’t give up any of their top prospects in the deal???
They also rated Marte, Betemit and Chen as some of the best prospects in the nation in various years. They are a good interesting mag(both versions which I too get) but they often over-rate tools and under-rate skills.
No question that we gave up a lot of prospects for Tex, some or most of whom might have been put to better use in a trade for a pitcher , we”ll know in a few years if they were more than just prospects. If you include Ramirez several have strong potential, but you can say that about any number of guys like Marte who never amount to anything, and we should all be able to recall all the posts stating that Betemit was the second coming of Chipper.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Do the Math, yep, you are right. That 2004 team that Randy Johnson threw the perfect game against finished fifth in on-base percentage, so it’s not as if that one game was indicative of the rest of the season.
Kind of silly for anyone to read all that much into one or two games.
Also, if we look at the Randy Johnson game, Jesse Garcia, Nick Green and a .206/.272/.298 Mark DeRosa were all in the starting lineup.
If you want to judge the Braves’ offense, bring up the fact that they are 8th in in NL in slugging and 9th in runs. Don’t bring up a game from 2004 and a single game from this season.
By Run Heap Run!
July 8, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
I like the navy hats too, I bought one in the clubhouse store Saturday. I wanted a version of the hat they wore for the July 4th weekend but they didn’t have any of those.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 8, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Hey, McFann — maybe Brian should skip the All-Star Game if he needs a rest.
Shaun, the physical demands between catching 142 games and playing third base 142 games should be apparent even to a stathead. Your argument about McCann’s playing time isn’t necessarily flawed (I guess we’ll see come September), but that Chipper vs. McCann argument certainly is.
By Quack Quack
July 8, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Quack Quack, Bay is obviously a great player but he’s 29 and his contract runs through 2009. That means after the 2009 season he is probably going to command a huge deal.Shaun
I’ll take him for a year and a half at what he is in line for contract-wise. Things can proceed from there. My point also was that no matter how highly rated prospects are ,a proven big-leaguer they are not and it isn’t always better to go one way or the other, but to decide on a team’s needs at a particular time.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Moby Grape, who said the Braves didn’t give up top prospects? You have to give up a lot to get the biggest impact player on the market.
Salty was blocked by McCann, Andrus is very young and was blocked by Escobar and possibly Lillibridge. Harrison is a pitcher and we all know (or should know) how likely young pitchers are to turn into quality major leaguers.
The Braves were 3.5 out on the day they traded for Teixeira and Chipper, Smoltz, Renteria, Andruw, Wickman and others weren’t getting any younger. They had quality young players who were expendable so they went after the impact bat that they could have through that season and the next. The trade was really a no-brainer.
For all those who thought it was a poor trade, I’d like to know where you’d have put Salty and Andrus over the next few years?
The only player that’s even questionable is Harrison. And again if you have the opportunity to trade a very young pitcher for a season and two months of an awesome bat and a Gold Glover when you are only 3.5 games out, you do it.
By Efrim
July 8, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Hey folks. Tough loss last night. Mark Bowman has a preview of tonight’s game against L.A. and within it he had the following:
There have been rumors that the Red Sox are interested in Teixeira and beliefs that the Angels might show some interest. But the 28-year-old first baseman, who had hit .349 with six homers in his previous 13 games entering Monday, says he hasn’t been distracted.
I’d have to say that anything less than a winning road trip will probably make Frank Wren start to field calls for Mark Teixiera. I suppose one can look at a team that is 6 games back of the division leader and think they have a shot at the division crown. But when that team has a 42-48 record and has 4 teams in front of them, things begin to look a little bleak. It really does sound like Ortiz won’t be ready until after the deadline. If that is the case, does Boston pull the trigger on a deal for more offense?
By Do the Math
July 8, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Shaun, you missed the point entirely, Mr. Tilting-at-Windmills. I merely was pointing out that a team has indeed had perfect games thrown against it twice in a span of fewer than five years. My point had no bearing whatsoever on the Braves of 2004 or the Braves of 2008 or the Braves of 1914 or 1958, for that matter.
I make this response not to dignify your pointless and childishly sarcastic comments, but rather to clarify for anyone on this blog who might be as clueless as you are. If that’s possible.
By McFann©
July 8, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Shaun Again, your best players have to play if you want to win.
So true. But it hasn’t been working lately.
I haven’t heard McCann complain.
Of course not.
And I’d say Chipper is a bigger injury risk than McCann.
I totally agree. 100%. Yep.
Should they give him more days off?
Maybe. Notice the huge dip his AVG has taken lately. (Same holds true for McCann, but not nearly as huge.)
Anyway, the catcher has the most physically demanding position in the game. But Bobby’s not “abusing” him (I mean, good gosh, he’s getting paid to play).
He’s still our second best hitter, but starting with June 22, his AVG has gone from .310 to .290. And It hasn’t gone down, come back up, and then gone down again. It’s just gone down.
We’ll see how it goes. And I sincerely hope I’ll never have to say “I told you so.”
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, Chipper is 36 with a much more extensive injury history than the 24-year-old Brian McCann.
So, no the physical demands are the same…if we are talking 24-year-olds at each position with reasonably similar injury histories.
By AGTfan
July 8, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Looks like the Braves ran into a guy who had absolutely filthy stuff last night. But hey, admitting an opposing player was great last night isn’t nearly as much fun as bashing our own players. It’s just not the blog way. Let’s all find a Braves player to scapegoat instead, or we could blame BC or maybe we should blame Francouer.
By McFann©
July 8, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera maybe Brian should skip the All-Star Game if he needs a rest.
Haha…He said that a no-no.
But you’re so right: Catching 142 games is a little more demanding than playing 3B. (Not taking anything away from Chipper. He works as hard as anybody.)
Tad bit of a flawed argument, perhaps.
Later!
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Quack Quack, I don’t know. If the Braves were a little closer to first place or the wild card lead, I’d be for a trade for Jason Bay. Hopefully they will get closer. But at this point, I’d stay away from Bay unless they could steal him away, which probably isn’t going to happen.
By Efrim
July 8, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
I meant 3 teams*
By Moby Grape
July 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Moby Grape, who said the Braves didn’t give up top prospects? You have to give up a lot to get the biggest impact player on the market.
Shaun
I’m sorry I guess I was rambling too much. What little point I had was that we still don’t know if any of them will ever be any more than prospects no matter how highly they were rated by BBA. I think that there is a good chance that several will, but…
By Lew
July 8, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Gotta go with Shaun on this one. I think we may miss Harrison in the long run, but Andrus couldn’t be any better than Yunel and Salty may eventually have more power than Mac, but it’s hard to argue with three All Star selections in his first three years.
The Farm System (as we have discussed here many times) exists to provide players for the Major League team. Sometimes this happens by promoting the players when an opening is available. Other times they provide the players by being trade bait to get a piece they can’t fill. Sometimes you trade a player like Bagwell, just like the Red Sox did and have that player be the better by far. Most of the time, however, it’s more like Chucky T for Hudson.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Efrim, I predict if the Braves are more than five out and behind more than two teams on the morning of Monday, July 21, Teixeira will be traded before the deadline.
Do the Math, I was responding to whomever you were responding to.
McFann©, I just think the Braves have to play McCann right now. If they are out of the race in late July, August and September, then they should rest McCann much more than they are. But I think they have to play him as much as he can stand given where they are at this point.
By A.S
July 8, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Good move overall, hopefully it helped going back to his former batting coach. I as many other fans want to see Jeffrey in a Braves uniform for many years to come and I hope this situation did not effect his feelings about the Braves.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, that sentence should read:
So, no the physical demands are NOT the same…if we are talking 24-year-olds at each position with reasonably similar injury histories.
…but we are talking a young player versus an old (in baseball terms) player with recent injury problems.
By AGTfan
July 8, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
McFann©
Everyone goes through slumps sometimes. Even Chipper an “gasp” even Brian. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re getting tired or overplayed. They’ll work their way through it. I think they have better natural swings than a lot of players. Don’t worry.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Shaun and Lew, you guys get it when it comes to the farm system and the fickle and ever-changing annual reviews of prospects.
Some of you put waaay too much stock in whatever particular list of prospects and the splitting-hairs rankings. If you knew exactly how many of those rankings are put together — usually by one reporter or writer after conversations with a team scouting official — and how much a player’s stock can rise and fall in one year, you’d know it’s kinda silly to refer to rankings done 9-12 months earlier as if they are some sort of gospel.
Just look at how Schafer stock soared in one year, from barely ranked in the Braves’ organization’s top 30 to No. 1. In one year. And look at what’s become of so many top-rated prospects in every organization. Just in the Braves’ organizations, some of their most highly rated No. 1 prospects in recent years included Andy Marte, Wilson Betemit and Saltalamacchia.
Look at five different websites’ or publications’ rankings of the Rangers’ prospects and you’re likely to get five very different lists, and look at a list that was put together about 18 months ago compared to one done six months ago.
It’s folly to keep citing your own pet list, whatever list it is that proves the point you’re trying to make. If you watched Salty play against the Braves in that three-game series, if you’ve watched him play 10 games, or 20 games, in the major leagues, you’d know this is not a catcher who was ever going to beat out Brian McCann for his job, and so far he hasn’t even looked like a good enough hitter to be the team’s regular first baseman.
Sure, that could change. But it’s not as if he’s not been given a chance, multiple chances, to nail down a job.
As for Elvis, he’s got remarkable defensive skills. And he’s still just 19, so he’s got plenty of time. But as long as he keeps slugging at a .350 or so level, he’s not and won’t be a five-tool player. He has demonstrated NO power. And that’s fine, if a team needs a slick-fielding glove man who can hit singles and steal bases.
But so far, that’s what he remains, a player with remarkable defensive skills who doesn’t hit for power, the way that the truly elite shortstops in the game today hit for power.
By AGTfan
July 8, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
McFann© Even a badly slumping McCann gives us a better chance to win than a healthy Corky. :-)
By Efrim
July 8, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Shaun
Efrim, I predict if the Braves are more than five out and behind more than two teams on the morning of Monday, July 21, Teixeira will be traded before the deadline.
Thanks man. I am guessing you are in agreement with me that these next 5 games and the 3 to start the second half against the Nats are crucial. Absolutely crucial. They really need a 7-2 or 6-3 run in my mind. We are currently 6 back and although some here may think the Phillies are stumbling a bit, they are still outscoring their opponents by a healthy margin(2nd best int eh NL). Anything can happen over the next two weeks, but I would be very suprised if we woke up on Monday July 21st and the Braves were within 4 or 5 games. May be pessimistic. But considering that they haven’t won three games in a row since May 22nd and haven’t had a winning road trip on the season, then I think it is fairly realistic.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
DOB I don’t think your IF’S and MAYBE’S are gonna get you out of this one. Bringing up Franceour after just three games has me and many other’s scratching our heads. Sniper
Huh?
It has me scratching mine, too. What the hell do I need to get out of? Man, seriously, you continue to make allusions and accusations that I don’t even know whether I should be upset about, or ask you if you’re serious, or wonder whether you’re just using me as some sort of sounding board. Honestly, I have no earthly idea what you’re talking about half the time.
Oh, well. For the record, I didn’t see the logic in promoting Francoeur after three days, when the All-Star break was so near, unless the Braves really saw something in his swing or approach at Mississippi that convinced a team official he could clearly give them an advantage over Perry or other options for these final games leading into the All-Star break.
I mean, he’s supposed to be able to rake against Double-A pitching at this point.
But anyway … I do see far more logic in the vast majority of decisions made by Braves officials — and by the bulk of bloggers here — when compared to the rambling, mindless comments that you make, Sniper. I mean, grab hold of the railings, dude. Stabilize yourself before commenting, for once.
By Interested Observer
July 8, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Matt Harrison is being called up and will start for the Rangers tonight.
By KC
July 8, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Shaun: “But at this point, I’d stay away from Bay unless they could steal him away, which probably isn’t going to happen.”
Trading for Jason Bay (assuming a reasonable deal can be reached with the Pirates) makes sense for the following reasons:
1 - The Braves still have a very real chance this year. They are 6 games back from a very flawed division leader, and we’re not even at the all-star break yet.
The Pirates probably aren’t going to deal Bay until very close to the deadline, so there are a few more weeks to assess this team before pulling trigger on any such deal. If there are couple encouraging signs over the next few weeks (Health from Hampton and/or Soriano or even Glavine… performance from Frenchy), and we can gain at least another game or two in the east over the next few weeks… I would absolutely expect the Braves to be buyers.
2 - Jason Bay is under contract for one more season, and if Tex leaves, we’ll need a clean-up hitter. Bay can be that guy.
3 - I realize that several years of AOL/Time Warner payroll slashing has trained us to assume that all significant free agents are rentals… but that is no longer the case.
The Braves have money to spend, as Liberty Media has made it clear they have imposed no spending limit, because they see a connection between on-field performance, and the appreciation of the franchise value.
Even though the Braves have money, they’ve NEVER been ones to offer silly contracts to players, which is why they may lose Tex (because he may well get a silly contract of 22 mill a season - or more), BUT…
Jason Bay after is -in all likelihood- far more signable than Mark Teixeira. He’s not going to command 20-plus per season on the open market, and his agent isn’t Scott Boras.
By Efrim
July 8, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
DOB
I agree with everything you said at 11:22, but Escobar doesn’t really hit for much power either. And he doesn’t really steal bases. He is also 25, so he may have already hit his ceiling in terms of projection. I’m not saying the Tex trade was a bad move, although I think Feliz will be the one to come back and haunt us, but your description of elite shortstops that hit for power doesn’t really resemble Escobar’s skillset. Just throwing it out there though. I like Escobar a lot, the guy gets on base at a high rate, which is my favorite skillset, and plays great defense.
By KC
July 8, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
If everything would go as I would wish it… here’s the team we’d have 3-4 weeks from now:
Rotation: Hudson, Jurrjens, Hampton, Glavine, Reyes
Bullpen: Gonzalez, Soriano, Boyer, Ohman, Carlyle, Campillo, Ring
Lineup:
1 - Blanco/Freel (platoon)
2 - Escobar
3- Jones
4- Teixeira
5 - Bay
6 - McCann
7 - Francoeur
8 - Johnson
A lot of things would have to go pretty darned well (health and a productive venture into the trade market)… but, it’s fun to think about, isn’t it?
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
It’s going to be a good day. I know that because I logged on this morning and saw zero e-mails from readers noting my boneheaded error in games-behind the “idle” Phillies last night.
They weren’t idle, of course, and it got fixed quickly for online after a blogger pointed it out to me. But I had feared it would get in the biggest edition of our paper that we made last night (game was over quickly, so it got in most papers).
Alas, a great copy editor saved my butt and caught it before it made any papers. Folks, you don’t know what a relief that is, when a colleague does that for you.
Gerry O., thanks much.
Now if we could just have him do some work on Sniper’s posts….
By McFann©
July 8, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Shaun But I think they have to play him as much as he can stand given where they are at this point.
That is a point…
AGTFan—
Yeah, I know everyone goes through slumps. They’ll come out of it soon enough. (How ‘bout tonight, guys? Ya wanna break out tonight? That’d be fun…)
Even a badly slumping McCann gives us a better chance to win than a healthy Corky.
True. ; ) Although I wouldn’t say McCann’s badly slumping (though he hasn’t been making the pitcher pitch to him lately, but nobody was last night, apparently.) The only area where he’s been slumping “badly” lately is with RISP.
By Run Heap Run!
July 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
DOB - what was with the Dodger fans booing Chipper? What on earth could they possibly have to boo him about? I get it coming from a division rival but the dodgers? Weird. And classless.
By DAP
July 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
KC freel again? anyways, bay is ideal for the braves. he is a quality player.
this season has been really sad for the braves. things are so different then they were supposed to be because of injuries…smoltz, glavine, hampton, soriano, moylan, ect. its depresses me when i think about it.
i hate it, but im past the point of thinking we can pull out this division title. obviously its possible and we could put an amazing streak together, but…not likely.
i would love to get bay even if we dont think he can make us win this year. we will need him next year, if tex leaves, which is 90% certain. all i know is that this braves team is young, and has alot of talent. this offseason will be alot of fun. and if a miracle happens, the rest of this year will be.
By brent a.
July 8, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Maybe this has been addressed; but, for as much as I can remember, the only similarity in the Braves’ 2004 line-up that got perfected by Randy Johnson, and last night’s line-up, is Chipper Jones.
And, for Robert, both teams were managed by Bobby Cox.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Run Heap Run, Chipper is booed in just about every city. Has been for a long time. Just because he’s so good and because of the way he carries himself, the swagger.
No big deal. He sees it as a compliment, and rightfully so. They don’t bother booing mediocre players from opposing teams, not unless the player does something to anger them (like running over their catcher or taking out their second baseman with a slide, that kind of thing).
They just dislike Chipper because he’s good, because his name is “Chipper,” and because he carries himself like he knows he’s good.
Long before Bonds was linked to steroids, he was booed everywhere, too. Because of how good he was and how cocky he was.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
TommyP, I doubt the ol’ motorcycle vs. deer collisions occur often, because if they did you’d hear about them. like a man bites dog story, that makes headlines.
But just in case, I try to stay off rural roads at night on the bike.
By KC
July 8, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
DAP: “KC freel again?”
I couldn’t resist. =)
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
KC, it’s not about whether Bay is signable after 2009. It’s about whether he will be worth the money and the commitment he will command after 2009. He’s not a young player. And while he’s likely to be very good beyond 2009, is he going to be worth what some team is going to be willing to pay him?
Efrim, I think the next week or two is crucial only because the trade deadline is coming up and because the Braves are in a little bit of a hole.
DOB, I do think the prospect lists are very valuable, especially in recent years, but I do think it’s ridiculous to hold on to great prospects if they are blocked for the next decade or so (Saltalamacchia, Andrus). But I see your point that prospects can change greatly and prospect lists are somewhat limited in what they can tell us.
I just want those people who think the Teixeira move was a bad one to tell us what they would have done with Salty and Andrus. Because I don’t see a spot for them with the Braves for the next 5-10 years or more. Until they can give a good answer to that question, I will defend the Teixeira trade.
By KC
July 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
DAP: With the players the Braves currently have on the field… I agree that it will be difficult, not impossible, but very difficult to win this division.
However, I could very easily see this team getting significantly better over the next few weeks between getting players coming off the DL, and possible trades.
If the Braves get Hampton, Soriano, or Glavine back… just one of those 3, it will help a lot. If they can get 2 of those 3 back, I think it will easily give the Braves the best pitching staff in the league (and it’s certainly not bad right now).
Then of course, there’s offense…
One of two things will have to happen: 1) Frenchy must start hitting as he’s capable. Or 2) we trade for a big right-handed bat.
If either of those things happen, I’m confident this lineup can score enough to win a lot of games behind the solid pitching the Braves have. Especially given Tex’s post-all-star break track record.
If the Braves can get 1 or 2 of the Big-DL-3 (Hampton, Glavine, Soriano) back… and either get Frenchy going or acquire another bat… I’m convinced this team will be in a position to make a run.
By KC
July 8, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Shaun: I understand that. I’m just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me to see a scenario where the Braves acquired Bay, and signed him to a 3-4 year extension over the winter, without Bay ever going to free agency. Again, he’s not a Boras client. A Hudson-like extension may be possible.
But even if Bay does go to free agency. The Braves should be able to field a competitive offer.
Certainly not suggesting that the Braves would be certain to retain him beyond next year. Just saying that there’s a good chance they could.
Some Braves fans (not you) haven’t seemed to realize that the ownership situation has changed for the BETTER. Many here assume we won’t be able to sign or re-sign anyone of substantial worth… and that’s simply not the case anymore.
By raindawg722
July 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
I’m a little late on this one, but I had to chime in since I was at the Tom Waits show the other night as well. Great show. My three favorite moments in no particular order.
1) When the crowd sang the refrain for Innocent When You Dream 2) When he was balancing on one leg and reaching over the top of the keyboard to play it (I believe this was during Singapore) 3) The appearance of the mirrored-hat during Eyeball Kid.
By timthebrave
July 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Wow. I went away for a week and so much has happened with the braves. Most of it not very good. Oh well. I was fishing and partying in florida and didn’t read one newspaper or turn on one tv. I think the Braves need to talk to Texeira and tell them what they can offer him. If they are in the same ball park then keep him and try to sign him. If not we got to get something for him. The Braves need a true leadoff man. Not since Furcal left have we had someone that gets the offense going and creates runs.(I agree with not signing him because of price but we need someone to replace him) I wish Francouer well but I think it’s going to take more than a 4 hit day to get him on track. He got the curves over the middle instead of a foot off the plate which he’ll get in the majors. I wish him the best. Saw Dave Matthews last night and got to say he puts on a good show. Go Braves!
By flange1
July 8, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Interesting blog today folks.
I too think this next 8 games are critical to the future of the Braves and to Tex as a Brave.
We have got to make up SOME ground on .500 and hope the Phillies, Mets and Marlins don’t.
Frenchy needs to come back hot. If not the drama with sending him down has just been a waste of time and energy.
I see a lot of folks interested in Jason Bay.
What do denizens think it will take to pry him away from Pittsburgh?
By Run Heap Run!
July 8, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Huh. Thanks for that, DOB. I have heard it occasionally but it was really loud on the tv broadcast last night. I haven’t noticed it that loud anywhere other than Philly and NY. I don’t blame him, I’d be flattered too.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
KC, again my question would be should the Braves sign Bay to an extension or a contract if they have the opportunity? I don’t think it’s a sure thing, not because I don’t think they can, but because he may not be worth what he’ll make in 2010 and beyond. His decline phase will likely start roughly as soon as he signs a new deal. Not that he’ll be a bad player but the contract will likely be a bad one within two or three years of him signing the deal.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Raindawg, those three moments, and so many more, made that a show for the ages. One of the best concerts I’ve ever seen. The Eyeball Kid, with mirrored bowler hat, was hilarious.
Waits’ acting ability and his banter with the audience has made him even more compelling as he’s gotten older. Not to mention the ever-deepening catalog of material he has to draw from and the terrific musicians he’s surrounded himself with.
By KC
July 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Shaun: I think it’s pretty rare for a star player to enter any significant “decline phase” (not injury-related) in his early 30’s. Most players begin to decline either in their mid or latter 30’s.
Bay would be 30 next year, so if the Braves were to sign him to a 3 or 4 year extension, I think that would be a pretty good bet. You’d have him under contract through age 33 or 34. Nothing wrong with that.
I was just trying to think of a few big hitters who seem to have fizzled out early (again not related to injury)… and even a guy like Brain Giles made it to his mid-30’s before any sharp decline.
Not saying that star players NEVER start a sharp downhill slide in their early 30s… just that it’s somewhat rare.
By BossLady
July 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Bite your tongue. What type of morbid person asks a question like that of anyone? (deers/motorcycles) There are some dark mind people on this blog. Why not think about beautiful skies, cool breezes and scenery? Is that too much?
By DAP
July 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
shaun im not sure if i agree with your position on jason bay…i really think that kind of additude would lend itself to never taking risks on a free agent signing that could put you over the top. sounds like the A’s. i think sometimes youve got to take a chance on a player that might perform really well for you.
so, what do you think jason bay is going to sign for after next year? how much ofr how many years? i think someone threw out signing him through age 34 or something eariler.
i went to baseball reference to see some players he is compared to through age 28. a few players that bay compares to had good years at age 34 (before) among them are jim edmonds (42HR 1.161 OPS) tim salmon (19HR .838 OPS) David Justice (41HR .961 OPS) pedro guerro (13HR .860 OPS).
obviously, there are plenty of players he compared to through age 28 that didnt even play till they were 34, or who were really bad at that age.
my point is we dont know if bay is going to be like edmonds when hes 34, or like bobby higginson. but signing him to a contract is a risk that might be worth taking. sometimes, man…you have to take the risk on stuff like that.
By Jeff R
July 8, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Here we go again: just bring on the hitting and the Braves are back in the hunt. The team’s hitting has been disappointing this year, but the pitching isn’t what it needs to be. If Reyes and Morton continue to develop, pairing them with Jurrjens and Hudson will make for a solid 1-4 in the rotation next season. The bullpen is better than 2007 but unsettled. I don’t think this team has the juice to make a run. I think that’ll be apparent after the upcoming road trip.
Otherwise, what is it with hamstring injuries and a shoulder dislocation for Bennett, Acosta and Infante? What’s the conditioning regimen like in Braves world?
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
KC, star player are usually still very good into their mid 30s and often into their late 30s, they do peak in their late 20s and start to decline after that. Obviously if a player is great in his late 20s, he’s still going to be very good even as he declines. And sometimes outside circumstances are going to cause the player to put up better numbers later or cause him to look like he’s better later in his career.
By Mr. Snrub
July 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
DOB - and/or other music enthusiasts -
Regarding Tom Waits, I always hear so much about his work, and how great he is, that I always feel I am missing out. However, I went out and listened multiple times to the album Real Gone a while back, and I just don’t like it. Is this album vastly different from the rest of his work? Or do you think I am an unfortunate soul who just doesn’t like Tom Waits?
By NCBravesFan
July 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Some interesting thoughts on here as the trading deadline gets closer.
To me, the larger question on players like Tex bois down to this: how much money are the Braves going to spend on payroll each year going forward? Are they going to continue as a fairly middle-class payroll team, or are they planning to loosen the pursestrings a bit?
With no evidence of a big bump up in the payroll, one is forced to conclude that Tex is gone - either this month or next year. We might have all that payroll coming off after this year, but if re-signed, Tex will command more than a fifth of the payroll by himself (assuming a $100 million team salary).
Added to that, the Braves will also have to contemplate the impact of that kind of salary bump in the context of guys like Chipper, Huddy, etc.
Tex would fit into that kind of salary structure, but personally I think it would rob the team of flexibility on payroll slots 2-25, while possibly creating some tension on the team that doesn’t need to be there.
By KC
July 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Shaun: Well here’s the think YOU need to take into consideration…
Oh, wait… actually, as I look at your last post.. I think we agree. =)
By Coach (Lets Go Braves IN 2009)
July 8, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Concerning the three day circus surrounding Jeff Francoeur’s trip to the minors, I have a working theory and it makes sense.
It’s as if one person within Braves management made the decision to demote Francoeur and another individual inside the organization did an end around and recalled Frenchy.
Say what you will about the reasoning surrounding Jeff Bennett, Manny Acosta and Omar Infante going on the D.L all at once. Francoeur doesn’t pitch or play the infield and the Braves currently have just eleven pitchers on their roster.
We all know that Cox and Schuerholz have a close working relationship. Can the same be said for Cox and Frank Wren? It’s just a theory, but I don’t think so.
By Bobby;s Cox
July 8, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Well, i was at the game last night.
In the 2 games i’ve gone to this year (sunday game vs. Angels & last night), the braves have a total of 4 hits and 0 runs.
I was going to head down to San Diego to see them there too, but I think I’ll do you and my wallet all a favor & stay home.
By JimD
July 8, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
By Coach (Lets Go Braves IN 2009)
Concerning the three day circus surrounding Jeff Francoeur’s trip to the minors, I have a working theory and it makes sense.
No it doesn’t. The whole “brain trust” plus some other coaches were in the meeting with JF when he has told he was being demoted - espescially of note BC and FW.
The recall could not have been made w/o them (especially FW) signing off on it.
By Bobby;s Cox
July 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
DOB
No matter how many times you rip on me, you’re still missed on this end of my laptop. No offense to Carroll who does a fine job as well. Thank you and the whole AJC staff for the excellent job you all do.
By DAP
July 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
coach i dont think thats the way it works. the same person that makes the final decision to send a guy down makes the decision to bring him back up to.
if wren didnt want jeff sent down, he woudlnt have been, and if wren didnt want him called back up, he wouldnt have been.
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Bay is going to make $7.5 million in 2009, the final year of his current deal. Other top leftfielders are making between $9 and $14 million this year. I think by 2011 or 2012, Bay won’t be worth any more than $11-12 million a season, which I’m guessing is about what he’ll get. I still think he’ll be a good player, just not worth $11-12 million a year.
And take that into consideration and what the Braves would likely have to give up, I don’t think it’s a good idea for the Braves to trade for him at this point. The only way I’d consider it is if they get a lot closer in the standings or if they don’t have to give up much. The former may be possible but I don’t think the later is very likely. Pittsburgh is going to want to use Bay to load up on quality youngsters if they put him on the market.
By Bobby;s Cox
July 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody
Great 8:59 pm post last night.
By Interested Observer
July 8, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Any word on a new pitcher? I assume Bowman wouldn’t have mentioned Tavarez unless there was at least some credibility to it. However, he doesn’t excite me at all. His ERA is horrible and he’s already been dumped by two contending teams.
By David O'Brien
July 8, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP
By Chop Chop
July 8, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Wren made the decision to send Francoeur down.
Wren made the decision to recall him after a mere three minor league games.
Wren is the one that comes off looking like a rank amateur for doing so.
It’s now up to Francoeur to make Wren look like a genius.
By THB
July 8, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun-I agree on most of your assessments on our prospects and prospects in general. The beauty of prospects is that most of them don’t pan out or don’t produce until they’re at AAA (Morton) or until they’re almost in their mid-20’s. BaseballAmerica didn’t even consider Morton a prospect this year, because he’s 24.
However, you talk about Salty and Andrus not having a spot on the team and saying that it would be okay to just throw a prospect away because they’re blocked. I think that had Tex not been a Boras client, I wouldn’t have any problem with the deal. But history show us that the Braves don’t like to deal with Scott Boras or big free agent signings. The Braves can still prove me wrong and sign him, because I believe that’s best case senario.
But where would we be if we held onto our prospects and traded for Dan Haren? We give up most of the same prospects, and we have a rotation (After injuries) of Hudson, Haren, Jurrjens, Reyes, Morton/Campillo. Then, instead of signing Glavine, we could have signed Hunter or Rowand (Although their contracts are for 3+ years right? A 3 year deal would have been alright). Even without Smoltz or Hampton, our rotation is solid and our offense would be much better.
I’m not saying we would be winning the division or anywhere near it, but we’d be better off long-term if we could lock up Haren.
By DonCoburleone
July 8, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I am hearing alot of talk in regards to “if the Braves are more than X # of games out of first place on July _, then they will trade Tex.
Well, for the sake of the Atlanta Braves franchise I hope to christ that is not what’s being said by Frank Wren behind closed doors. If he can’t identify the problems on this team and the fact that we are alot further from the playoffs than just the 6 games seperating us and the Phillies then he shouldn’t be a GM.
NOW is the time to stock up for the future, NOW is the time to get younger and make a play for a long run of success starting in 2010/2011. We are currently in the same boat as the Mets and Phillies - we are all trying to win NOW. And guess what, you can’t have 3 teams in the same division “winning now.” So get a leg up on both of them (like the Marlins have already done) and start building for the future!!!!
By Shaun
July 8, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Coach (Lets Go Braves IN 2009), I hope you’re joking. I think the logistics of such a conspiracy would be extremely difficult. What happens, Wren sneaks Francoeur on a plane at midnight? Cox sends a henchman to Mississippi to get him back? It’s just silly.
And as DAP said, reportedly Wren, Cox and several coaches were in the room to talk to Francoeur about the demotion.
Why do you insist on assuming there is drama with the Braves without any evidence for it whatsoever?
By The Mirror & The Circus
July 8, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
well oh well…
This years braves team looks awfully feeble.
Earlier in the year they didn’t play well because of less than fair weather conditions.
Since, many pitchers and hitters have gone down simply running bases or throwing off the mound.
Last night, they almost get perfected upon because of a long sunday game and a delayed flight.
Grow some balls. It’s time for this team to look in the mirror and play with some desire. How many more times is this team going to “tip their caps” to opposing pitchers or teams, weather conditions, long & delayed games & flights, injuries that should be prevented with excercise & stretching routines, etc…
The Wringley Brothers would be proud.
By dgd
July 8, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Seems like the Red Sox and Angels are the most likely destinations for Tex, but there’s no way the Sox are parting with Lester for anyone, much less a three month rental of Tex. They are counting on Beckett, DiceK and Lester as their big three for years to come. One other problem w/Tex to Sox is they already have a gold-glove first baseman in Youk. Youk can also play third, but they have gold glover Mike Lowell there. They could certainly rotate all three between the field and DH, but unfortunately none of them play left field—because their best option is to get a left fielder and let Manny DH……..
By 3trees
July 8, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Raindawg - I also dug when the the little light (spider?) came down from that funky rigging that was suspended over him.
MrSnub - You may have already, but try digging into the lyrics and see if that doesn’t open up the music and the setting for each song a bit. He’s a very theatrical (more so than cinematic) writer. Try “Bone Machine” if you’re still wondering. Maybe “Small Change” from the earlier years after that. Of course, it may be that he just doesn’t do it for you.
By ncscoots
July 8, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
but Escobar doesn’t really hit for much power either.
Efrim, I think I would amend that to “hasn’t hit for much power this year”. I think the injuries have taken a little away from him, because I certainly expected more pop from him this year. But he’s certainly capable of 15 HR a year.
One of the things I liked about Escobar in the leadoff spot was that he didn’t have to think like a 2 hitter, and could be a little more aggressive in his approach. Though that could be just a perception of mine; I believe he has about the same number of XBH at 1 and 2 this year…
By Chuck
July 8, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
I attitude in the clubhouse an issue with the Braves? I think that’s why they needed Glavine to come back, and they probably needed Maddux even worse! Smoltz and Chipper are great, no doubt. They are also dead serious about what they do - or so it appears to this outsider. Some looseness in the clubhouse and some politically gifted spokemen couldn’t hurt.
Tex’s offense this year has not been consistent. He and Franceour can shoulder the blame for most of the losses, along with Diaz to a lesser extent. But Tex’s defense is phenomenal. He makes great plays and scoops on a regular basis. If his bat were as consistent as his glove has been, he would be worth whatever… ok, half of whatever his agent asks. Escobar has a lot of growing up to do. And he doesn’t need to put it off forever like Andruw has. He is a great talent, but has had costly lapses in the field and basepaths. And it’s obvious that the umpires dislike both he and Blanco. That’s not supposed to matter, but I think it might.
Franceour’s comments were ok in my book. Frustration and disappointment are part of the landscape, and he was just telling the truth. He’s newly married also! This is a “character building” time for him, which can be painful. The Braves need production from his position, and I can support sending him down, and even bringing him back up, given their options. Too many writers have a “scorched earth” policy to sell print, and the people on this blog picked up on that really quick. I notice that McCann has a little slump of his own going. At some point Pendleton is going to have to bear at least some of the burden. The slumping swings are not that hard to recognize and fix. Chuck
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
July 8, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
YO DOB
I got a good laugh when I read your thoughts on ever-changing prospect ratings.
Only b/c in my first week of Gulf Coast League play I was playing the most awesome ball of my life, just being pumped up about being there and all can make you play like a man possessed. I got a few of those back-pats and you-could-be-the-next-so and so comments and those words put me on cloud 9. Then I came back to reality and had a few regular weeks and then a 5 game slump and I was the next nobody. ALL in a MONTH. LOL
Yeah , fickle ain’t the word but it works. But you can’t explain it to people who only want to see the world their own way. I’ve still got the game ball I hit outta the park for my first game-winning homerun. I also have the coach’s nameplate off of his desk from my last day in the minors. Had to take something to remember it all by. LOL
Go Bravos !!
By raindawg722
July 8, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
3trees, I am not sure if you are talking about 9th & Hennepin. If so, I believe that was a bare light bulb. It had a pretty cool effect , and would have made my top ten, at least.
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