AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 03 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTime for Braves to demote “The Chosen One”?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’d like to start this by saying we all need to take a deep breath, relax just a bit before tonight’s big pitching matchup, and consider the words of the great Tom Waits, who I am going to see at the Fox Theatre on Saturday night before flying to Los Angeles to continue coverage of this strange season.
From an internet interview not long ago, Waits when asked what’s heaven for him, replied: “Me and my wife on Route 66 with a pot of coffee, a cheap guitar, pawnshop tape recorder in a Motel 6, and a car that runs good parked right by the door.”
OK, now let’s get back to The Francoeur Thing.
No, but seriously, it does say a lot about how this guy’s captivated the local fan base, the media, and blog denizens in far-flung corners of Braves Nation that we’ve spent so many hours examining Frenchy’s Great Decline of ’08, doesn’t it?
Well, that plus it says a lot about how a young hometown player who’s featured so prominently in team marketing can also stay in a lineup a lot longer, not to mention keep his spot on the major league roster longer, than a similarly performing obscure player could be expected to survive in the same circumstances.
Then again, consider the options the Braves had for right field while Mark Kotsay and Matt Diaz were on the DL the past five weeks of so. The Great Decline had not quite reached the epic proportions it has reached in the last week or two, and the Braves certainly weren’t going to run out an outfield on a regular basis that included Brandon Jones, Gregor Blanco and Greg Norton (even Omar Infante was hurt and unavailable most of the past week).
But things could get interesting. With Kotsay back from the DL, and Diaz expected back in a week or so, the Braves will have a difficult decision to make (not difficult in the eyes of most of you and us in the pressbox, but difficult for team officials because of what I said above, about the marketing and all the little kiddies running around in their No. 7 jerseys in the stands, all that).
On the one hand, they risk possible backlash for sending to the minors a kid they’ve built their “brand” around, their advertising, all that (hey, stop howling, I’m just giving you the facts as I understand them).
But on the other hand, they risk what, to me, is far worse backlash — from fans who want to, and need to, think their team puts winning first, and doesn’t show favoritism or make seemingly illogical decisions when it comes to personnel, choosing to sit or send down, say, Gregor Blanco instead of Francoeur, since Francoeur is not out of minor league options, needs a lot of work to get his swing and confidence back, and isn’t doing much at all to help the team win.
On the contrary, Francoeur’s slump has reached epic proportions and become a distraction, the center of too much attention. How can the kid possibly get straightened out in this environment, when he and his teammates are being asked about The Slump every day, every night, on radio, on TV, in the clubhouse.
And when the fans at Turner Field have begun booing him after every failed at-bat, louder than ever last night as he went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and grounded into a double play with bases loaded. How is he going to snap out of this funk with this chaos and inquisition that’s building around him?
Here are the numbers. Warning, this is not for those with sensitive stomachs:
Francoeur is hitting .236 with 19 doubles, eight homers, 41 RBI, 20 walks, 62 strikeouts, a .291 OBP and .379 slugging percentage - and those are the relatively good numbers, the overall numbers.
Then we get into the nastier stuff. He’s hit .215 against lefties (keep in mind, he’s a right-handed hitter).
He’s hitting .202 (20-for-99) with runners in scoring position, with 23 strikeouts and seven double plays grounded into (a year ago today, Francoeur was hitting .344 with RISP in almost the exact same number of at-bats).
He’s hitting .200 (10-for-50) in the late innings of close games.
He’s 2-for-20 with the bases loaded, which is almost unimaginable. In half of those at-bats, he’s either struck out or grounded into a double play.
For those who think he’s better off taking the first pitch, well, I know where you’re coming from. But it ain’t so, not with Francoeur, at least not statistically.
After getting behind 0-1 in counts, he’s hit .226 in 177 at-bats. After being ahead 1-0, he’s hit .214 in 98 at-bats.
And with two strikes? Oh, you don’t want to know (.158, 24-for-152 with 62 strikeouts and six walks).
In 55 night games, he’s hit .203 with three homers and a .250 OBP.
Now, the deepening slump: He’s hit .211 (48-for-228) with five homers and 53 strikeouts in 59 games since April 29. At Turner Field during that period, he’s hit .205 with three homers, 12 RBIs and 31 strikeouts in 31 games.
Since June 3, Francoeur has hit .194 (20-for-103) with one homer and seven RBis in 27 games, with 25 strikeouts, a .245 OBP and .262 slugging percentage. That’s a .507 OPS in his past 27 games.
And in his past 14 games, Francoeur is 6-for-48 (.125) with no extra-base hits, one RBI and 16 strikeouts with three walks.
So unless he has a big turnaround in the next week, would the Braves really keep him in the lineup, or even on the roster, if it meant having to send down another outfielder?
Blanco has hit .338 with eight RBI and a .400 OBP in his past 18 games, including 13-for-25 (.520) with three walks and two strikeouts during a current six-game hitting streak.
Might the Braves consider moving Kotsay to right fielder, Blanco to center, and Diaz in left? Josh Anderson or Brandon Jones could be a fourth outfielder if they want Francoeur to go to Richmond and work on the changes that he’s working on now in the batting cage with hitting coach Terry Pendleton.
T.P. told me last night that they’re at the point now of breaking down Francoeur’s swing, getting him to do some entirely different things than he’s done in the past, and that this is stuff he has to get comfortable with outside of the games, not try to do while he’s up there facing major league pitchers.
Chipper had this to say about Francoeur’s situation and what he’d say to him or is saying to him:
“Keep your chin up. Keep coming to work, keep working hard. It’s a tough time for him. He’s never struggled up to this point [of his life], ever. He’s always been The Chosen One, as we like to call him. But this game will humble you.
“I’d like to see a little more of the enthusiasm he showed earlier in his career. He’s really down on himself right now, and I think it will help him come out of it a little quicker if he doesn’t take the game as seriously as he is.”
OK, gotta get to the ballpark. First, a tune. Oh, and ask me about Kotsay’s scouting report on Hanson later. It’s not a long one, but he did talk about him. I don’t have time to find the quotes right now, but will later.
”WE’RE JUST FRIENDS” by Jeff Tweedy (Wilco)
Over and over and over again
You say that we’re just friends
Forget the implications
Infatuations end
If love’s so easy, why’s it hard
I can’t imagine ever being apart
I’ll come back to you
It’d be brand new
But I promise
We’re just friends
Over and over and over again
I try to make amends
For everything that I’ve done wrong
My whole world just spins
Make some coffee, hold me up
Try to talk me out of giving up
I’ll come back to you
It’ll be brand new
But I promise
We’re just friends
Services »
Comments
By chuckaluck
July 3, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
first
By JimD
July 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Hate to say it DOB, but you are correct sir. Time to send him down and let him regain his stroke against minor league pitching. It is the ONLY solution at this point that hasn’t been tried.
By Fred Secunda
July 3, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
First?
By Interested Observer
July 3, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
i don’t buy all this marketing stuff. I think most of realize what we’re talking about with Francouer is maybe two or three weeks at Richmond to clear his head and work on what he needs to work on. It’s not punishment or sending him off to Siberia never to be heard from again. It’s just the best way to get him over his funk. Wouldn’t it be better from a marketing standpoint to have Francouer go down for a few weeks and then hopefully come back closer to himself and ready to contribute, rather to continue costing the Braves wins and games in the standings while looking ridiculously awful in the process. It really has become quite comical.
I understand the issues with the recent lack of depth. But now that we’re getting some people back, there really is no more excuses. I don’t think most of us are down on Frenchy for the long-run. We’re just want to see him break out of it and show improvement. It’s clear now that the fastest way to make that happen is to get him out of the spotlight and take the pressure off. Besides, Chris Chambliss is the hitting coach at Richmond and as I recall he’s a pretty good one.
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
I think if the Braves can feel confident that Jeff’s replacement has a reasonable chance to put some numbers up and help the team win, a stint in the minors makes sense.
Where they would send him is another question - wherever the best coaching is available, combined with the lack of media spotlight would seem best in my view.
I tip my cap to the kid for trying hard during a savage spell, and to Bobby & the coaches for not making a bad situation even worse by throwing him under the bus.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
There is definitely something to the luck argument that Neyer puts forth as the reason that Francoeur’s numbers are significantly worse than his .272/.314/.448.
His K rate is actually a little lower than his career rate.
His walk rate is a little higher.
He’s on pace for close to as many homers and doubles as he had last season. He already has more triples.
His line-drive rate his higher. His groundball rate is very slightly higher. His fly ball rate is lower. His infield fly ball rate is much lower.
The only area where Neyer could be wrong about Francoeur and bad luck is that his line-drives are weaker this season than in the past, which is quite possible.
But the more I try to find areas of disagreement with Neyer’s thoughts on Francoeur and bad luck, the more I see that there is probably a lot to it.
By JD
July 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Richmond? Send him to Myrtle Beach - that’s about where he belongs now.
By Austin
July 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
I wanna wish everybody on the blog an early happy 4th! Im bout to head out to Alabama with my parents to see my grandparents. No Peachtree TV in ‘BAMA!
GO BRAVES!
GOD BLESS AMERICA GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU AS WELL.
By Will
July 3, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Send him back to Parkview if you have to. His head is thinking contract.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, where do you see line-drive, groundball and fly ball percentage on baseballreference.com?
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 3, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Great stuff on XM earlier today DOB. Really enjoyed it…although at times it sounded like you might have been making a BBQ sammich, which is completely understandable.
BBQ sammich > Frenchy demotion
By Rye
July 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Right you are, DOB. I know Francoeur’s situation is completely different than Rick Ankiel’s when he was a pitcher, but remember what happened to Ankiel when he went to the minors for all those seasons early in the decade? He began to have fun again. I’m not saying Francoeur needs to spend 5 years in the minors and learn a new position, but if he goes for 15-30 days, the pressure will be off, he can loosen up, find his stroke, have some fun, and come back better than ever.
By MGL
July 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Diaz is hitting .333 this year against lefties. Frenchy, while not good either way is doing better against righties. Maybe the best start is to have Blanco, Diaz and Kotsay in against LHP, and Frenchy, Blanco and Kotsay against RHP.
By Will
July 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Send him back to Parkview if you have to. His head is thinking contract.
By BossLady
July 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
You know it is bad when friends and families are arguing over Francoeur. We can’t watch a game unless he spoils the day with his plate appearances.
The fans are booing, he is getting downright depressed and his team mates are feeling bad for him.
He needs to go away to the minors and learn how to hit major league pitching. It is very bad when the other team’s pitchers take him for an automatic out and know they can get out of trouble when he comes up to bat. That must me tearing the “kid” up inside. I can call him a kid from a parental standpoint.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
DOB thanx for the new blog…ive got a question for you…
are there rules about sending a player to the DL about HOW hurt they are? does there have to be a doctor note or something to DL a player? and have injuries ever been faked or exaggerated in roder to put a player on the DL? i understand if you cant answer that last one…but im just wondering. we all know jeff’s ankle has been hurt pretty much all year…can they just DL him or what?
just trying to think of a way they could legitamatly get him off the roster without doing PR damamge, or mental damamge to jeff.
By Jimmy
July 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
I have Francoeur on my Braves team on PS3 MLB The Show.. and he’s just a consistent striking out with RISP (normally at 3rd with less than 2 outs).
By JonBee
July 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
As I watch the pain grow in Frenchy and in the fans, I think of other players over the years who just suddenly “lost it.” Most notable ones are pitchers (Steve Blass, Rick Ankiel, the McDaniel brothers). Two of them changed positions and the other two never made it back. It was sad in those days - but there have been others who went into prolonged slumps who pulled out of it and had pretty good careers (Harmon Killebrew and other ‘Bonus Babies’ from the 50’s come to mind). With the pitchers, minor leagues was the destination; Harmon was kept up on the bench for awhile and then worked his way back into the lineup. His problem was he had no position he played well so sitting him actually helped defensively. I admire Bobby Cox and his loyalty to his players - when this is all done, we will look at that patience and see it was a good thing for Jeff. Good music choice, DOB - Frenchy will be back, but the fans will never have the same feeling for him, now will he for them, after all this is done. BUT HE WILL BE BACK AND BE A VALUABLE PART OF THIS TEAM!
By AZBravoFan
July 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
DOB: Are we sure Frenchy is healthy? I know he had that knee or ankle thing earlier in the year. Could be he trying to play through pain so he can “help” his team through a tough stretch? Or maybe the early season pain got him into some bad compensatory habits?
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Shaun, then there’s a problem because baseball-reference has different stats than fangraphs. Baseball-reference has Francoeur hitting grounders 45% of the time, flyballs 38% of the time, line drives 17% of the time. Fangraphs says Francoeur has hit grounders 44% of the time, flyballs 35% of the time and line drives 21% of the time. It could be that fangraphs is less accurate in differentiating between line drives and flyballs. The problem probably lies with the notorious fliner that is not quite a line drive and not quite a fly ball.
By rupert
July 3, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
for the love of God send him down, please.
i’m sure the kiddies will manage to get on without him, anyone who knows anything about baseball knows the answer to this problem, hell DOB didn’t even mention possible backlash from players, they see it, they see the marketing s** and then see the double standard he gets…
By Chop Chop
July 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
The stats are lying to you. The stats will tell you that it is all due to bad luck. Francoeur has been struggling with his swing mechanics for weeks. He’s making it worse. In turn, his luck keeps getting worse and worse. His BABiP has been bad all year, but the bottom really didn’t fall out until June. His BABiP in June was a horrific .247. Most pitchers would kill to have that stat, so we know that kind of number kills a hitter’s effectiveness.
I think it’s very easy for someone to blame Francoeur’s issues almost completely on bad luck. Bad luck turns around for players.
Instead, I believe that it is Francoeur’s reaction to the bad luck that is killing his season. I don’t how a player snaps out of that. A trip down to the minors might be the answer.
By NOT THE PROBLEM
July 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
FRENCHY’S poor batting is not the reason this team is losing.
PEOPLE… the whole damn team can’t hit when it comes to knocking in runs! TEX’s big bat ….SILENT. BIG MAC’s bat…..SILENT. CHIPPER”S bat …. solo HR’s and singles dont win games. LF…who is even out there? ESCO bat…..nothing. THis team isn’t HITTING AT ALL. Don’t screw around and blame FRENCHY for this pathtic offense.
P.S. THere will be no BOOOING the BRAVES at the game on JULY 4TH.
Thnak you.
By Rutuger
July 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Good gracious Frenchy is killing us this year.
Too bad Jordan Schaeffer p** his career away, b/c this would be the ideal setting for him to step in and log some big league experience in a now-meaningless season.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
July 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
An important option that wasn’t mentioned, but is the one most likely (in my mind) to happen, is Francoeur going on the DL.
DL’d for a mental block? Yes, I’m serious. When Wohlers was having his issues 10 years ago, didn’t he go on the DL? And if the “official” reason is listed as ankle, knee or shoulder soreness, so be it.
While the rogue idea of sending an established, but struggling, young player down to the minors isn’t without numerous recent examples (D. Willis, C. Lee, R. Holliday, B. Myers, etc.) I would have to think that would be a last resort option in this situation.
Pitchers have gone down to rediscover their touch; some position players have gone down to learn a new position (R. Gant) but off the top of my head, I can’t think of a case where a young hitter has gone down to get is stroke back. I’m sure there are many, I just can’t think of any at this moment.
Francoeur’s case is made tougher by the fact his is a home-town kid. And when “Komminsk” and “Francoeur ” are being mentioned in the same breath, that can’t mean good things. (With no disrespect to Brad Komminsk intended.)
At least with a DL stint, he could get away from the park a few day, try to clear his head and then go on a “rehab” assignment. To him and many others, that sounds a lot better than being optioned to AAA.
(And before any of that happens, the All-Star break is only a week and a half away, and that might serve him well.)
Finally, while I’m not the world’s biggest Francoeur fan (far from it) I do hate seeing him struggle this way. The big question is will be able to recover and become a star (like Smoltz), loose it completely (like Mackey Sasser) or never quite be the same (Wohlers) … I guess only time will tell.
By Braves never win on the road
July 3, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Frenchy don’t let the door hit you in the a* on your way out …
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Neyer also admits the slump may have gotten to JF. You could see why, what with all the advice (friendly from coaches and teammates, not so much from fans) he’s getting.
He’s never before been expected to be one of the top run producers on the team. He’s always been #3, at most.
When he came up in 2005, Chipper and Andruw were the big studs. His contribution was a pleasant surprise.
In 2006, same deal and by then Heap had arrived.
In 2007, Andruw slumped but before the pressure mounted on Frenchy to produce, here came Tex.
In 2008, suddenly, Jeffrey was expected to pick up the slack when Tex started off cold and Chipper was banged up.
So until he gets things worked out, a trip to the minors may be needed.
Meantime, another bat (and I mean not just Diaz) could help too!
By Lennie G
July 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The bottom line is, at some point…YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT’S BEST FOR THE TEAM, let alone Francoeur’s sanity.
For example, Detroit sent a prized acquisition by the name of Dontrelle Willis back to the minors to try and get things figured out. Also, as everyone knows, the Phillies sent Myers down to do the same.
It’s not as if the idea of sending Francoeur down is an anomoly. In fact, it might be the best thing that the Braves could do for him.
I think the Braves management needs to get over the “fan loyalty” to Francoeur if that’s indeed the problem. Not addressing Franceour’s problems now could cause irreversible damage…not just to this season but to a 24 year old’s career.
By 18 Wheels of Love
July 3, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
One thing I have noticed about Frenchy on defense is that he NEVER slides or dives for a ball any more. I’ve made a point to watch out for how aggressively he goes after balls and he just doesn’t. I don’t know if that would be the eye issue or him favoring his bad ankle. I would think that would be lack of confidence in his dives due to poor eyesight. Again, that is just pure speculation on my part.
By Patrick
July 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Heard you on XM Radio today.
Thought it was Bowman for a second there…
By justin
July 3, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
I agree, it’s time for Frenchy to go back down. It’s not like he’s even playing good defense anymore. His entire game is struggling and the way he played last night shows it won’t be long until the Braves will not have a number 7 to market to anybody because they won’t want him here. But then again, it can’t possibly get worse than last night (0-4, 3 K’s and a DP), can it?
By The GM
July 3, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Where is the fan backlash in sending Frenchy back to AAA? I don’t hear or see any fans demanding he be in the lineup. It is just the opporsite. If the Braves were focused on winning Frenchy would be packed and on his way, taking Bobby Cox and Terry Pendleton with him.
By hmmmm
July 3, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
If he gets demoted…… He’s TOAST! DONE!
By Herschel Talker
July 3, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Yes, it’s time!
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I understand with 100% clarity how many home runs Francoeur has this year, and how many he had last year.
The point I was making is that instead of focusing on the entire 84 games of this season, the focus should instead be on the last 40-50 games, the period wherein he has been slumping.
Francoeur had a decent start. I mentioned that in my last post. So, if you factor that in to the entire 84 games, then his season projections only look slightly worse than what he accomplished last season.
But, I’m not talking about the entire season. I’m talking about the last 1-2 months, and how abysmal Francoeur’s performance has been.
If you project his last 2 months out over the course of the entire season, what do you get?
Will you be happy with those “projected” 15 home runs and 30 doubles if it comes with a .220/.285/.340?
I know I sure won’t. And, two months of that does not seem like “bad luck” to me.
It seems like a guy who is taking big hacks, and way more often than not, is coming up empty.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
July 3, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
From early post:
” Pitchers have gone down to rediscover their touch; some position players have gone down to learn a new position (R. Gant) but off the top of my head, I can’t think of a case where a young hitter has gone down to get is stroke back. I’m sure there are many, I just can’t think of any at this moment*.”
*Young hitter going down to regain their stroke, and come back successfully
By Scapegoat
July 3, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
And so when you bloggers get ur wish and they send Jeff down———who will u BLAME win we continue to LOSE..which we will.
FRENCHY IS A SCAPEGOAT FOR DULL BRAVES.
By frank
July 3, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
i’m one of frenchy’s franks. go frency! he’s our man if he can’t do it no one can!
By steve
July 3, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
The Braves have just made things worse for Francouer by playing him instead of sending him down to a hitting instructor that can help him with his balance and swing; he needs to get his head cleared and get back to the basics and you cannot do it at the major league level; so do him a favor and get him some help at the minor league level.
By Seen it before
July 3, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Get Frenchy to the eye doctor, he’s not seeing the ball. Last night (3rd AB) for example, he struck out on acurveball that didn’t end up in the strike zone, after missing a fat one earlier in that AB. He hasn’t put solid wood on a pitch all year. Maybe he’s lost the excitement of hitting a line drive. Can he get hit by some falcons or maybe even a bulldog, just to make sure he made the right decision? Screw AAA.
By Milton Jeff
July 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
While we all like Frency in the past..I do agree a few days back in the minors will help. It will give him something to think about. After a few games, bring him up and we’ll see what happens. Meanwhile, work on TEX trade. Have Blanco, Kotsay, BJones, and Anderson hold OF till then. Infante at First!!
By sportsnut4
July 3, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
http://www.total-e-sports.blogspot.com
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Actually I just discovered something: Line-drive percentage and BABiP don’t seem to correlate all that well.
Only one of the players who rank in the top five in LD% rank in the top 35 in BABiP.
Instead of LD%, GB% and FB%, maybe someone should start measuring “hard-hit ball” percentage. Seems that is more important.
Hitting line-drives is simply not as important in the majors as hitting the ball hard.
By frenchy = cancer
July 3, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Please get him off of the team! Send him down, I like the guy and the fact that he is from ATL, but I like winning more and he needs some time to regroup. He leaves more runners on base than anyone I have ever seen, its disgusting to watch.
By Aram
July 3, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Scapegoat -
No one is saying Francoeur is the reason the Braves are losing. Instead, we are saying he sucks and doesn’t belong in the Majors right now…the numbers clearly show that. He is killing the team moreso than anyone else right now.
By TennesseePaul
July 3, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Can’t be easy for the guy… if one were only going off the blog then the problems would merely be limited to the following:
Blind in one eye
Swinging at the first pitch
Hips flying open
Stance too wide
No pitch recognition
Slow swing
Moves his hands backwards when he begins swinging
Commits to a swing before the pitch has been released
Thinking too much at the plate
Has no plan at the plate
Not thinking enough at the plate
Worked out too much in the off season
Bum ankle slowing him down
Possible secret injuries that are being craftily hidden from the public masses by beat writers and the team.
Over exposure in the local media at such a young age.
Married
Not listening to advice
Listening to too much advice
Curse of the blue uniform
June swoon
Brought up before he was ready
Played too many games the previous seasons
No concept of the strike zone.
And finally, no major league talent whatsoever.
I may have missed some. But it would see he’s got a lot of work to do.
Here’s to Jair Jurrjens “May the wings of liberty never lose a feather!”
By Buddy Roe
July 3, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox’s old school ways and pampering of players has cost the Braves for years and unforunately will be at Francouer’s detriment for years to come. Coming in second means you are the first loser…
By Chop Chop
July 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
(Here’s another theory: a breakdown in swing mechanics due to injury.)
Wanna take a look at some of that “bad luck?” Well, take a gander at Andruw Jones in 2007.
Just look at those BABiPs:
March/April: .305 May: .250 June: .145 (Holy Cornelia!) in 105 ABs July: .254 August: .293 Sept./Oct.: .221
Andruw had all kinds of trouble with his batting stance last year. Francoeur’s having a similar issue. Andruw had a bad knee last year (most of us were begging Bobby to sit the guy last year because of his struggles and not a few of us figured his knee was an issue) that eventually needed surgery this year. Francoeur has a bad ankle. Maybe, just maybe, the low BABiPs are a result of a hurt player struggling with his swing because of his injury.
I know, I know…it is true that Francoeur’s BABiP has been low all year, but he didn’t struggle much in March/April (he had 14 of his 29 extra-base hits in 110 ABs). That makes perfect sense if his ankle wasn’t bothering him. He only has 15 extra base hits since April 31. Overall, Francoeur has struggled since the beginning of May. If his swing were fine and his eyes bad, he’d be striking out a lot more.
It’s gotta be the swing…and maybe the ankle.
(I just can’t remember when he hurt the ankle. If I could, I’d be so proud of myself/filled with self-loathing for my stupid idea.)
By Legend of Len Barker
July 3, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Francouer was called up straight from Mississippi. He got off to an incredibly torrid start and even had a major Sports Illustrated article.
It didn’t take long for pitchers to adjust. He’d swing at anything between the on deck circles. I think it took him upwards of 100 at bats before he walked the first time and it was intentional. French was told to take more pitches the next year. Don’t swing at the stuff you can’t hit.
I think Francouer’s problem is that he can’t read pitches. Don’t know if it’s poor vision or poor instincts.
If he goes back to free swinging, he’s dead. Scouting reports catch up quickly these days. At his current rate, he’s dead as he looks at strike three right down the middle.
I don’t think Francouer has had bad luck this year. I think he had incredibly good luck his first year.
Francouer’s never learned to hit major league pitching. That’s why that need to send him down. He’s never played at AAA and might could benefit from it, as it’s a step between Mississippi and here.
Worst case scenario is Brad Komminsk, Paul Zuvella, Tyler Houston, and Pat Rockett.
Best case scenario is not Ankiel. His average isn’t good; he’s just hitting for power. Not much unlike what Frenchy’s doing now. Best case scenario is Joe Nuxhall, After his sideshow call-up, he spent several years in the minors and became a very serviceable pitcher.
By rotomeister
July 3, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks for that summary Dave. As something of a regular at Turner Field, I must admit that it is disgusting to see the same Francouer pictures and videos night after night after night. From a PR standpoint, he is clearly the person the Braves selected as the “Chosen One.” Thus, as you say, he is “the brand.” I’ll close by stating the obvious: the team on the field is going as Jeff is going right now and it’s a pretty pitiful product I’m paying to see.
By CJ2
July 3, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
He is basically an Andruw Jones clone. Good defense, modest power, low OBP, terribly undisciplined at the plate. He drives me nuts, but my wife thinks he is hot.
By Jeff R
July 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Given the stake that management has in Francoeur, I doubt they’ll ship him to Richmond. Probably should, as DOB writes. The guy needs time to gain perspective and figure it out - or work it out without being in the media glare daily.
Having said that,Francoeur still has a lot of upside potential. What’s happening now is unfortunate, but I think he’s still a solid talent. Sometimes this happens to good players.
By glove51
July 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I made this offer on an earlier blog, but it was right before you posted a new blog. I have the live recording of Wilco’s March show at the Cain’s Ballroom in Tulsa on 2 CD’s if you would like me to send it you at some P.O. Box or at the paper.
It was a great show and the sound is very good on the CD’s. Wilco encourage this sort of thing, you know.
By hawkatom
July 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
DOB: If JF can’t hit his way out of Richmond, that proves he shouldn’t be the Braves’ starting RF.
By Ronzul
July 3, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
BRING BACK KLESKO!!
By BamaBrave
July 3, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
I’m a bit mystified at this slump of Francoeur’s, on the heels of Andruw’s epic slide… These are/were above average players, and your hitting coach seemingly - seemingly, folks - can’t make an impact. Add that to the awful plate discipline we’re seeing up and down the lineup, especially with RISP, and I just wonder what the devil TP gets paid for. You can’t teach timely hitting, but you can give these younger guys a strategy and mind set when they’re up there. And if the batters can’t stick to that game plan, bench ‘em or send ‘em down. WAY too often, I see our guys pressing and swinging for the fences when a nicely stroked single to right would score a run or two. Work the #@&%# count and choke up if you need to…. I know, I know…easier said than done, but TP should take some heat for all this too…
By Novice Ned
July 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Blanco has done a nice job of adjusting to the lead-off role. No doubt. Frenchy needs to be sent down to work his issues. I’ve never understood how he got so much more love than McCann but even I can see that dude is better than this putrid streak. Let’s hope the ultra-loyal Cox doesn’t confuse loyalty with good parenting. And in this case, the youngster needs to re-gain his love of the game and his swing in the comforts of the Diamond in Richmond.
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
FRENCHY IS A SCAPEGOAT FOR DULL BRAVES.
I am certainly not scapegoating him but he has to take most of the blame. His failures with RISP have been deadly. In the past he’s hit over .300 with RISP and has averaged about 1.4 RBIs per hit with RISP. If he had hit like he usually does with RISP, he would likely have 10 to 13 extra hits and an extra 14 to 18 RBIs. Don’t you think at least a handful of all those ridiculous one run losses would have been different if he had simply executed with a few timely hits with RISP?
By BravesFan79
July 3, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
This is why the Phillies are in 1st and were in 4th place. The Phills send down one of there top starters to get things worked out…..instead of running him out there game after game after game with the SAME results!
Redmen, Woodward, Orr, Thorman, Andrew and Now Corky and Frenchy. All players that the Braves should of had the balls to send back down to the minors before the wheels fell off the season!
Bobby cox and his terrible personel/bullpen decisions need to GO!
NO first place team would have such terrible useless backups like Corky!
You hear that Wren….you give Cox CRAP to work with…and hes gonna use that CRAP until the wheels fall off the season! Just look at all the CRAP JS gave Cox to work with last year and what happened to the season!
By prattvillenolzfan
July 3, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Wren mentioned in the broadcast booth a few days ago that it was hard to make a deal right now because too many teams still think that they are in contention…
So, I looked at the 9 teams that has a worse record than Atlanta (yes there are 20 friggin teams with a better record than Atlanta right now….
My thinking is that those teams should be ready to make some kind of deal….
Lets start with the team with the worst record in Baseball…San Diego… The only person that would be worth going for would be Brian Giles
2nd worse record- Seattle- There are 2 names having trade value Ichiro Suziki and Raul Ibanez Ichiro is untouchable (the Mariners are owned after all by a Japenese corporation But I think Raul Ibanez has possibilities
3rd worse-Washington-no one w/possibilities (we can always get willie harris back…))
next are the Rockies- Matt Holiday has been mentioned, but what would the Braves be willing to give up for him…. Brad Hawpe might be available, but he is hitting worse than Franceour right now..
Cleveland-Grady Sizemore has hit 21 home runs already….quite possible we could trade some of our young arms/or Hampton for him….
Next is San Francisco-Ditto Washington..no one available (we need power, that leaves Randy Winn out)
Cincinnati is next- possibilites with Adam Dunn (great clubhouse presence), do we really want an aging/declining Griffey Jr.
Kansas City has a good rapport with Atlanta but I don’t see anyone worth going for…Jose Guillen is a possibility, but he’s been playing DH latelly…
Finally that leaves the Astros (actually they are tied with Atlanta, but they are losing right now to LA…)The only one worth anything is Carlos Lee, but he signed a huge contract 18-20 million a year range, so I doubt he’s available…
So out of these possibilites, if I was Wren, I would pursue the following 3 people
1..Raul Ibenez most probable to pursue. Seattle needs alot of everything, so it might be possible
Grady Sizemore both Sizemore and Ibenez provide the RF power that we so desperately need. Cleveland needs pitching bad, we seem to have a stockpile of young arms.
Adam Dunn yea he strikes out alot, but he also provides alot of power. If you have Chipper, Tex and Dunn, that’s alot of pop (provide everyone’s hot)
Holliday and Carlos Lee are too expensive.
Granted, these are teams with worse records than the Braves. Teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Texas, Toronto, and Los Angeles are just above us. With a small losing streak, they would be below us…
One last thing,
We are 8 1/2 games out of the wild card race
6 teams are ahead of us…
We need to focus on catching the Phillies, not the wild-card
Geez, I went over my post, I’ve never posted this long before, I’m starting to sound like Lew or N8………..
By parkview
July 3, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
For the record, he didn’t hit in the minor leagues either. He was never a star down there, he simply was promoted to AA. He never played above AA, so don’t be so sure he will hit AAA pitching either. He is from here and that is why he was called up.
The honeymoon is over, Jeffie.
By Hoosier Aaron
July 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
I think what we need is a live chicken. Can someone get us a live chicken before Frenchy bats tonight?
As Willie May Hayes said, “We shoulda got the live chicken.”
By kenjkk
July 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
I agree it is time to send him down for a couple of weeks. I would also either replace Terry Pendleton or bring in a “batting Consultant” for a little while. someone like Julio Franco could see a different perspectus on all the Braves hitting. TP isn’t get it done right now.
By Del
July 3, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
I have two thoughts on the Frenchy and Bobby Cox situations:
Frenchy… If TP is talking about making basic changes to his swing, then I would imagine that you are probably talking about sending him down for the balance of this minor league season.
Bobby Cox… There is an interesting article on the front page of ESPN - MLB.com, by Gerry Fraley regarding Tony LaRussa and the job he has done this year managing the pitfalls that have befallen the Cardinels and the success he has had overcoming them. Bobby Cox has faced basically the same pitfalls with results that are far inferior (8 less wins) than LaRussa. The conclusions from this comparison ought to be self-evident to all who are interested in the long term interest of the Braves. IMHO
By Ron Roberts
July 3, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Oscar Villareal set to be released by the Astros. How long til we pick him up?
By OrlandoFan
July 3, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t you love to read an advance scout’s report on French? I mean, it has to be simple. Everyone’s getting him out, so it must not be rocket science. Like…bait him with hard stuff off the plate, stay ahead in the count and let him fish. He gets himself out on everything else. He gets something good to hit, he misses. In the majors, you have to hit the mistakes to even out missing on the good pitches. He’s not hitting the mistakes. And he’s so deep in the order, no one behind him is going to improve the pitches that he sees. It’s a conundrum, but the guy has proved he can play well. A superstar, maybe not, but a .280-hitting, 30-homer, 100-ribby, Gold Glove in RF, he has been. Remember that Mickey Mantle had to go down before he got things right. So have dozens of others. I don’t know that French has to go down, but he might become the reserve outfielder for a bit while he works on his stroke.
By AGTfan
July 3, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
There comes a point when the long term health of the team and the player take presedence over an marketing concerns. I think we’ve reached that point. I don’t think we should even wait for Diaz to get back. I think we’re at the point where keeping Frenchy in the bigs is going to do him long-term harm. I say bring Josh up to ATL and send Frenchy to Richmond or Miss. Assign a hitting instructor to work with him and tell him that he’s not to listen to anyone else but the ONE instructor.
By LA Dawg
July 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
I think it’s entirely possible that this problem could be more than meets the ‘eye’. Given the fact that he’s got a plate in his face from the fouled bunt in ‘04 can it just be a coincidence that this ‘slump’ occurred this season after getting beaned in the face in Spring Training. One of the things that all us fans tend to forget about baseball is these guys are standing up there facing 90-100 mph lasers that carry the potential to be deadly on every pitch. After getting his face rearranged twice the dreaded ‘fear’ may have crept into The Chosen One’s psyche. Hopefully that’s not the case but if it has…then he’s done and it’s too bad for him and his family that he didn’t sign the long term contract when he had the chance.
By MrWrestling#2
July 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
I was sitting in the stands last night wondering the same thing DOB. I just didn’t know if it was time to say it yet. I guess it is. My assessment is that he came up too quickly and the early success overlooked some serious flaws in his game. Its better to fix things now than ruin what could be a great player one day.
By Robert S
July 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
The 2:59 post by Interested Observer sounds suspiciously like Skip Caray, or at least the comments that Caray made on radio last night. And Skip mentions the Braves blogs periodically (as he did last night in reference to Franceour), so it’s not inconceivable he reads DOB’s blog as well
Whoever it is, he’s right - send him down, let him get his bearings straight, and come back when he’s figured it out.
Since my suspicions might be correct in saying the Braves might be more interested in selling a “brand” then seriously winning, it might help if Frenchy’s productive enough to where they can make their “brand” more marketable……..
Option him. Golden boys shouldn’t be immune to demotions……..
By Jay Bennett
July 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
I like Wilco but I’m not sure Jeff Tweedy’s lyrics are all THAT quotable.
It’s all about the music, man.
By parkview
July 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Maybe he needs a “slump buster”, eh, Mika Piazza?
By It's Obvious
July 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur and Barry Zito need to get together and compare notes. Maybe form a support group. Maybe read “Dianetics”.
By flange1
July 3, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the Frenchy blog!
On another note, what did Kotsay have to say about Tommy Hanson?
Thanks!
By Ed Glennon
July 3, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
This subject is getting as boring as Joe and The Fat Man discussing the trivia question for three innings every night. Frency should be sent to AAA, if only to get away from TP, the most overrated coach in baseball. If Franchy can play hardball every spring when it comes to his salary then the Braves can play hardball with him.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
grady seizmore is NOT getting traded.
By Random
July 3, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Quack Quack, Capt Caveman —
I’ve been thinking some more about our previous discussions as to whether Chipper was sacrificing power for average back when he was batting .400.
The way we left it was pretty much like this:
Capt Caveman: “well if you watched the game tonight you would have heard them say that Chipper even said as much [changing his approach from power cuts to slap hit-and-poke singles from the right side to keep the average up]. That doesn’t mean he’s not hitting hr’s it just means that he’s more often trying for a hit than a power shot - from the RIGHT side of the plate. And from the left side he is starting to shorten up a little to get on base vs trying to drive the ball more often than usual… . It’s not uncommon for a player in his position to get caught up in the chase for average and give up his power stroke in situations that he normally wouldn’t… . . If he hits .400 or close enough to chase it throughout the year than I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t hit 30 hmrs. I would expect that if his average dips down to the point that .400 is not likely that his power numbers would increase as he changed focus back to his normal mindset.”
Quack Quack: “My point was that he is indeed hitting with less power. The S% is higher than usual because the BA is way higher than usual not because he is hitting with power. 77 hits and only 23 extra base hits. that is indeed a low percentage for him. The last dozen games or so he has been mostly swinging like a singles/doubles hitter.”
Random: “Okay, I see what you’re saying now (I think)… . If Chipper had been getting extra-base hits this year in the same proportions that he has for his career, then (out of 77 hits) we would “expect” 15 doubles (vice 11), 14 HRs (vice 12), PLUS 1 triple (vice none). That would put his “expected” SLG at .723 rather than his “puny” .674. (All stats are thru yesterday’s game.) … Okay — fair enough.”
But I got to thinking — rather than comparing his career extra-base hits to his career hits, why not compare them to his career ABs? I crunched the following numbers using his stats this season thru 7 Jun, both his peak BA and right before he started missing games.
Based on his career thru 2007, about 40% of Chipper’s hits have been for extra bases. With Chipper having 92 hits thru 7 Jun, we would therefore “expect” about 37 of them to be for extra bases (18 doubles, 2 triples and 17 HRs), putting his “expected” SLG at .753.
However, “only” 27 of his 92 total hits went for extra bases (12 doubles and 15 HRs), for a SLG of .680. Quick conclusion: “he is indeed hitting with less power.”
But based on his career thru 2007, about 12.3% of Chipper’s ABs have been for extra bases (and 18.4% have been singles, yielding his career BA of .307). Based on his 219 ABs thru 7 Jun, we might predict Chipper to have a total of 67 hits, with about 27 of them for extra bases (14 doubles, 1 triple and 12 HRs), putting his SLG at .543.
And Chipper did have 27 extra-base hits thru 7 Jun.
The difference in his .420 BA thru 7 Jun and his .307 career BA thru 2007 is 25 additional singles. Based on his career thru 2007, we would have predicted that in 219 ABs, Chipper would have 40 singles (and 27 extra-base hits). However, in his 219 ABs thru 7 Jun, Chipper has 65 singles (and 27 extra-base hits).
Same number of extra-base hits as we might expect in 219 ABs, but 25 extra singles.
The way I look at it, Chipper had not “give[n] up his power stroke in situations that he normally wouldn’t”; he was not “indeed hitting with less power”; and he did not sacrifice power for average. The extra 100+ points in his BA came not at the expense of extra-base hits, but with the addition of singles that would in previous years have been outs.
What do y’all (or anyone else here) think?
By atlantasportsfan
July 3, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
PrattvilleNolzFan The Indians are NOT going to give up Grady Sizemore. Are you kidding? You really think they need pitching? Pitching is all they have right now. They need offense, because their studs are having down years and/or injured (Perralta, Hafner, Martinez, etc). They’ve got plenty of young pitching in Laffey, Sowers, Lee, Carmona, etc.
Put it this way. Sizemore is like what Chipper Jones is to the Braves. He’s the fan favorite, the one who’s jersey every kid is wearing, the one that gets the biggest roar when introduced. Has anyone ever considered Chipper expendable? No. Sizemore isn’t either.
By SoWeGa Fanatic
July 3, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
I really like Frenchy. I hope he gets his act together, comes back and shines for 15-20 years.
Didn’t Ron Gant get sent back down early in his career?
By SI Cover Jinx
July 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Just got to get this off my chest…..Trades are not an avenue by which to trade all of your scrubs, injured players, and fallen prospects for productive major league players. I mean seriously, Mike Hampton for Grady Sizemore. No GM in history would give you a bag of baseballs for Mike Hampton right now. A few days ago someone suggested we could have had Tim Lincecum for Scott Thorman and Brayan Pena. I could go on and on. Absolutely kills me. Major league teams don’t give up their best players for several of your scrubs.
By don
July 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
I still believe that Francoeur will have a fine career. I just hope it is with the Braves. I would hate to see disgruntled fans run him off.
By Arkansas transplant
July 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
All of a sudden, everyone is on the “lets trade Tex bandwagon” but when I said 2 weeks ago to trade him everyone jumped on me. I tried to tell you he was overrated. He’s never proven to carry a team. Plus we don’t need someone that takes half a season to get started. The early games in a season are just as important and the late ones. This is the problem I have with the most of ya. Everyone seems to be so sold on Bay and Nady. Well, one is a bit overrated and the other is not only overrated but a part time player. I don’t see why the Braves shouldn’t talk to Boston about a Tex trade for Youkilis and Buchholz or Lester. But why stop there? I think they should explore a trade of Hudson and B Jones for a Holliday trade. Then lock Holliday long term. He hits for power and average plus doesn’t start slow. Those 2 moves would actually make this team stronger. Along with younger.
Tex is not the person we need to build around. Go get Holliday. We’ve got a great pitching staff in the way of J.J, Morton, Campillo and JoJo. We’ve also got a Hanson waiting in the minors to fill a spot, also don’t forget about James. He’s been great since finding his way in the minors. Trade Hudson and lets free Hampton next year, plus throw Tex’s salary in the mix and this organization has plenty of room to hang onto these up and coming pitchers. If you ship Tex to Boston and pick up a Buchholtz in the progress we’ll have a staff that’s one of the best in the majors for years to come. The troops are coming in the minors, Hayward, Johnson, Freeman and Hernandez. Have a top notch pitching staff waiting on them and lets make another run of 14.
By LarryA
July 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
I am not sure a demotion will help Francoeur. His problem is one pitch that he can’t hit and he can’t lay off - in the majors, that is all it takes. Frenchy can not lay off the low outside slider. He swings at every one, even the ones that are clearly so far off the plate they are untouchable. Successful hitters foul that pitch off, there is nothing you can do to hit it, you just have to spoil them until they miss or throw something else. Pitchers don’t like to throw lots of sliders, it hurts their arm and takes pitches off their pitch count faster than anything short of Tony LaRussa’s dry spitter.
the problem is minor league pitchers can’t throw that pitch consistently enough, if they could, they would be major league pitchers. Frenchy can hit a fastball but he has gotten so demoralized by the steady diet of sliders, he is a headcase right now. Cox needs to sit him down for a week or so, let him relax, use him as a pinch hitter against some lefties for the week and let him work on his swing. He looks completely lost at the plate. He needs to watch lots of tape of certain pitchers, and figure out how to identify that slider early enough to lay off it.
By gotigers72
July 3, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Instead of sending him to the minors, maybe they should DL him. Let him go to the Carribean or other foreign destination. Just get completely away from the game altogether for awhile. Not even have to think about baseball at the AAA level. Because right now, he is just a mess mentally. You can tell that just from his body language. Head down, shuffling his feet, etc. Like he would rather be anywhere else at the time.
They could legitimately put him on the DL. Anybody that has seen him play for his first 3 years knows that he physically is not the same guy. I think the ankle may even need surgery NOW, even though I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. He’s just nowhere close to running like he can. Heck, he signed a major college football scholarship [with my Clemson Tigers] to play defensive back, and players at that level and that position have to be able to run like a racehorse to get a scholly.
DL him, get the ankle checked out THOROUGHLY, then send him on a 2-3 week vacation. Then come to Richmond and rehab for a week and see how things go from there. Leaving him at the ML level right now is not going to do any good for HIM or THE TEAM. I love the guy, want to see him get straightened out, which right now starts with his head.
By PEPr
July 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
DOB Very timely subject. As hard as it is for me to say, “Tough Love” is definitely called for. Send him out (possibly further than Richmond) for a while to relax and regroup out of the “Big-League” media glare.
By Bill
July 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francouer is a pitiful sight. Good guy but he has no one to blame but himself. He was offered a long contract but wanted to be selfish. He is taking to much advice. His problem started by bulking up. I believe he has some health problem that he is hiding. Hopefully he will figure things out. He does need to go down and get out of the mess that the Braves have created.
By David
July 3, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Jeff should be sent down ASP!!! his feilding and whole game is falling off the past few months. He never seem that smart to me, maybe he can’t adjust to the majors? Sometimes when people go thur hard times they have never been thur they have to grow up and work harder.
No wonder now why the Braves didn’t sign him to a long term contact like McCann, they knew he wasn’t yet a player to keep!
By AGTfan
July 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Del I agree with you about getting a hitting consultant just to work with Frenchy somewhere in the minor leagues. But in the comparison of LaRussa and Cox, the Cards have had some tragedies this year, but mostly in the off-season. As far as in season injuries, they haven’t had anywhere near the problems the Braves have had. NO ONE HAS.
Whatever is done with Frenchy or whatever your opinion of BC, it’s time to consider if this team isn’t really competitive as currently constructed. I think that unless we see solid improvement in the next 10 days we become major sellers and look to bring in as many strong prospects for whoever we can unload.
By How many days til football
July 3, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
trade Tex, demote JF and get a hitting coach…the 2 players are not clutch, and for the past several yrs, most Braves hitter are not clutch..
By Clint
July 3, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Trade him for whatever you can get. He’s terrible. I wish Cox would at least drop him to 8th in the order. That way maybe he won’t keep coming up with the bases loaded. I thought Andruw was bad in the clutch, but JF is making him look like Babe Ruth.
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Water? Wet? Pope? Catholic? Bear? Woods?
By GT
July 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Man should have never got married, killed it for him.
By Reid
July 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
It is time to send Francoeur back to the minors and pray that it helps him…At this point in time he sucks and is not helping our team…
By Paul in Richmond
July 3, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
No one knows for sure BUT If Diaz, batting 333, had come to the plate those 20 times with the bases loaded then, instead of two hits we might have had TWELVE.
How many wins do we get with the additional dozen runs? Not to mention the fact that the rally continues and is not killed by a double play.
A team losing one-run games might well find that those runs translate into 4-5 more wins which translates into ……
By chuckw/deadjournalist
July 3, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
SoWeGa Fanatic -
Gant was sent down to learn to play the outfield. He came up as a second baseman.
By Random
July 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
prattvillenolzfan —
One big, big problem with all three of your recommended trade targets (Ibanez, Sizemore and Dunn) is that they all bat left-handed.
If Wren does trade for a quality bat (and I’m sure he’s trying, probably to platoon with Kotsay and back-up 1B), I’m sure it’ll be a right-handed bat. (Assuming Francoeur is not sent down).
That’ll allow Kotsay to rest more frequently, give Tesh a blow now and then and may take some of the pressure off our other two righties (Diaz and Francoeur) who have not been meeting expectations yet this year.
Do you see any quality RH bats out there that might be available?
By Cletus's brother
July 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Everyone who can breathe knows that Jeff can not cover the outside part of the plate right now. If he does go down to the minors the coaches should mandate that he attempts to hit to the opposite field no matter where they try to pitch him. It is really sad to see him flounder so bad.
I would say send him down and bring him back when he learns how to hit like a MLB player.
By supa
July 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
I work in marketing. The most important thing in marketing is having a good product. That’s makes everyone’s job easier. If the Braves are a better product without Frenchy right now, it will only help them on the marketing front.
Send him down to fix things.
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
As BC and JS have said before when fan favorites were traded or demoted:
“IT’S A BUSINESS.”
IF all the Braves org cares about is making the handful of kids running around in #7 jerseys happy then they need to leave baseball, change Jiffy’s last name to Montana and put his face on lunchboxes, backpacks, and pillowcases and send him on tour. Hey, if it doesn’t matter if he can play ball it surely won’t matter if he can sing!
By Andy K.
July 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
DOB: If Frenchy gets sent down, shouldn’t OF Jason Perry get a better look than Jones or Anderson? I mean, Perry hit .314, with 13 homers, 41 RBI’s, and a .423 OBP, all in 38 games. Since getting called to Richmond and playing in 30 games, he’s hitting .311, with 5 dingers, and 14 RBI’s, with a .403 OBP, amongst little playing time at first, but every day starts as of late. I mean, he’s not as well known or covered, but it looks like he could definatley make an impact at the big league level.
By ben
July 3, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Nobody should come about the team! When a player is not performing and you have someone that can produce, that player should be playing.
By THB
July 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Prattvillenolzfan-Dunn is not a great clubhouse presence. Haven’t you heard of the comments JP Riccardi said of Dunn? Dunn doesn’t even like baseball, doesn’t try hard, etc. He’s a defensive liability, but he would be a solid DH. Oh, and Sizemore being traded is the last thing the Indians would do. He’s the face of their franchise.
Alabama Transplant-If you look at Hollidays splits, he’s very, very average away from Coors Field. I believe he is a .273 (Not exact) career hitter away from Coors. He’s a talented player but for what it would cost to get him, along with the fact that it’d be a similar trade with that of Tex (1.5 years left on contract). Did I mention his agent is Scott Boras? That’s a big no-no. And you wanna give up Hudson (Our ace, who has 2 more years after this year) and a solid prospect for him? Cmon man.
Do you know why the Braves don’t trade Tex for Youkilis and Buchholz? Because the Red Sox wouldn’t gain anything out of it. They would swap gold glove first-basemen while gaining power and giving up some OBP. Then they would be giving up their top prospect to go along with it? Not going to happen. We’d have to settle for Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden (Which, by the way, would be a very solid return).
I’m not saying we should build around Tex. I just don’t think the Holliday trade would do any good for the team or future and trading Hudson would ensure injuries to our extremely young rotation of Reyes, Jurrjens, and Morton.
By Coach Smith
July 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
at least in ANDRUW’s slumps he still managed to hit 30+ HRs and drive in 100+ runs
I’d take that kind of “slump” from Frenchy right now
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Russell Martin:__0 for 2 with RISP for the day—1-5 for the entire game.
Dodgers lead 5-2 in the 9th.
By PJ
July 3, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Blanco needs to be starting not Frenchy……when home fans start booing home players that is a big problem!!! Frenchy needs to go to Rome or Myrtle Beach!!
By Random
July 3, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Paul in Richmond —
Twelve hits in twenty ABs is a helluva sight better than .333.
Try .600. (A .333 BA in 20 ABs’ll get you 6 or 7 hits.)
By LA Dawg
July 3, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Sorry if this bothers anyone but I’m re-posting my earlier post cause I think it got lost in the flurry of posts that followed. I don’t live in ATL any more so I don’t hear all of the talk radio, etc. But is anyone in ATL considering what I said earlier:
I think it’s entirely possible that this problem could be more than meets the ‘eye’. Given the fact that he’s got a plate in his face from the fouled bunt in ‘04 can it just be a coincidence that this ‘slump’ occurred this season after getting beaned in the face in Spring Training. One of the things that all us fans tend to forget about baseball is these guys are standing up there facing 90-100 mph lasers that carry the potential to be deadly on every pitch. After getting his face rearranged twice the dreaded ‘fear’ may have crept into The Chosen One’s psyche. Hopefully that’s not the case but if it has…then he’s done and it’s too bad for him and his family that he didn’t sign the long term contract when he had the chance.
By Wayne in Utah
July 3, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
A good manager/gm who is any kind of a salesman would sit Jeff down, and after about 15 minutes, he would be volunteering to head down to work on his swing.
Who do we have in Florida who might be able to get the kid’s head on straight?? Maybe Chipper’s dad could be enlisted. Send him some good/bad video and have him put the kid back in “school”.
Boy, as positive as I like to be with the Braves, I sure wouldn’t have an issue if the Braves ended up being sellers this year. Two draft choices for Tex, might not be as desirable as someone like Casey Kotchman or James Loney.
Who else do we have that might bring in a good prospect that we could live without???
Even though I am talking about being a seller, what would it take to get Harden from Oakland??? Price will probably be prohibitive. BUT, since he is a long shot, could we trade a longshot prospect? I would give up one or two pitching prospects, but NOT Hanson or Teheran. Definetly not Jurrjens, and probably not Reyes or Morton.
Whaddyya think??
By ncscoots
July 3, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t it be easier for you guys just to crib TennesseePaul’s post at 3:40 and put your name to it? He covered it all for you; don’t let that effort go to waste.
TPaul, time for Part Two Of The Series…we need a recap of all the solutions put forward by bloggers in response to the all the problems of your earlier post. That way, we get them both out of the way for everybody.
By OrlandoFan
July 3, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Robert S: I think you had it exactly right on the author of that comment 2:59 post. The phrasing and tone were exactly dead-on Skip’s usual. I could hear him saying it. Good pickup. And I agree with what Interested Party wrote, too.
By Lewis
July 3, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
I read Bobbie’s comments”we’re not talking about Frenchie’ we just lost the damn game” NO CRAP BOBBIE!He;s an automatic out!The guys in front of him get on and they see him dragging his butt to the plate thinking “here we go again!” He is killing the team.Ive been a Braves fan for 41 years and never seen anything like this. I’d rather have Rick Camp come to bat instead of frenchie. Think about that one for a while!
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
I commend you for writing this, DOB. Did your editor’s see it? Because, you know, it’s been a few months since we’ve been “at home with” the AJC’s favorite couple. Don’t you reckon they’ll do a pictorial on “Jeff and Catie stay strong thru slump” any day now?
By Marie
July 3, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t know it was all Jeff Francouer’s fault the team is losing. Yeah, send him down, then who shall we blame?. I know, the big Chick-fil-a cow at Turner Field!! SLUMPS HAPPEN!!!!
How about the rest of the team with runners in scoring position? How about the rest of the team actually getting more than TWO HITS in a game!!!
Let’s see…last night Mark Teixeira had the bases loaded and the chance to tie the game or at least put some runs on the board, but he didn’t come through. BOOOOOOOO. The game before Brian McCann had a couple runners on and he failed to come through late in the game. BOOOOOOOO. Those aren’t even the only examples from the last TWO games. Not hitting with runners in scoring position is a trend with the ENTIRE TEAM - not only Jeff Francouer. - SO MOVE ON!
By Andy K.
July 3, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
The Blue Jays are shopping A.J. Burnett for a SS…Brent Lillibridge for Burnett, anyone? Frank Wren should call J.P. Riccardi
By who cares
July 3, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
Who really cares. This is a .500 baseball team the past 3 years, and it is only going to get worst. Frenchy is the least of the problems for this declining franchise. Starts at the top, when put me on camera sherh…. trades future for Tex,now braves will hang on to him, and not get anything for him. Great trade, five top prospects for nothing. Then you have bobby over the hill cox, who has shown that given equal or less talent,is one of the worst managers in baseball. Has no idea of how to manage a pitching staff. Ex: Acosta, and Boyer should never, ever be given the ball in a game saving situation. But dumbass continues to give them the ball and then he has the nerve to say they only made one or two bad pitches, that happened to be hit out of the ball park. Give me a break. Then we get to the biggest joke as it relates to management in major league baseball. Terry lardass pendelton, this guy is a total joke, what did he do for andrew jones for five or six years. He has no idea of how to help Frenchy, this guy has been hand picked to replace the terrible Cox, so he will never be fired. So get accustomed to the .500 baseball atlanta, because it’s not the players fault, it’s the worthless management, from Holtz clone Wren, to Cox, to Pendleton. Good for the new owners, better hope their porno flicks make money in hotels, cause their baseball team will never make $$$
By Tomahawk Kris
July 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Marie - are you Catie Francouer? You seem pretty mad people are calling for your boy to be sent down. Before you get all defensive about your husband keep in mind about 99% of the people here love Frenchy. We just want him to take some time to figure what is wrong and the type of player we all know he can be.
By Kip
July 3, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
My baby brother has a Frenchy jersey. He uses it for a diaper!
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Supa
And I can also guarantee you that Braves officials understand the economic concept of “sunk cost”.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 3, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
All I know is, I watched Frenchy swing the bat last night. He swung and missed, and missed , and missed, and missed. Then when he did make contact, it was a pitchers pitch that ended up being a double play.
Folks, he just flat out isn’t seeing the ball, at all. Which begs the question, is this just a slump or is his eye sight the real problem? Because if it is, we could be witnessing something truly tragic.
As in, Superstar outfielders eye sight goes bad, doctors cannot correct it, career over.
By Jim Hertel
July 3, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Please, please send Jeff down before he does bodily harm to himself. Those of us who pull for him hate to seem him struggle like he is now. He needs a place to get his head together, and the pressure in Atlanta will never let him do that.
Also, I hope Atlanta is a big seller at the trade deadline. This season is toast. It is time to restock.
At the risk of incurring DOB’s wrath, we need to do a Marlin purge. The Florida Marlins do know how to trade their players and get better. We need to do that as well.
By jb
July 3, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
If “frenchy” looked like, let’s say, Willie Harris, then he would already be back in the minor leagues, if not off the team completely.
Get my drift?
By Interested Observer
July 3, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Robert S and OrlandoFan
I can assure you that I am not Skip Caray, but I am very honored that you would think so! I actually live outside of radio range so I’m unable to hear Skip anymore. But frankly, what I (and apparently Skip) said is really just common sense…to everyone except Braves management I guess.
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Del
even though LaRussa has 8 more wins and a winning record (I think right now) I’d have to say though the Braves record and some of Bobby’s questionable decisions he, Roger, and Wren deserve more credit than Larussa and his staff ever will for this season. Coming into this season Roger was suppose to have 4 20 game winners and a rookie as the 5th starter. This team may not be in first or 2nd, may not have a winning record but to have Smolt, Glavine, and Hampton out…Hudson the only guy with more than a yr of experience in the rotation and a 22 yr old as the possible ace, that my friend is more impressive. You can’t think of would have or what if’s but if Diaz hadn’t have been hurt or if Kotsay hadn’t or if we had more clutch hitting no one knows where we could be.
The bullpen has also been impressive though people refuse to think so. Before Gonzo came back, i bet you no one in baseball could name one person in our pen. But another thing too there is a possible chance that if Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton had pitched all year this team could actually be worse than it is, and that’s hard to believe but after what these young guys have done pitching and otherwise you have to think…heck the bullpen didn’t have a blown save since Moylan had one til Smoltz came back…that right there tells you how good this team has been despite what has happened, they just haven’t been able to reach that record that they are capable of with that black hole on the field.
By utanfan
July 3, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
I really like Frenchy but for the good of the team and Frenchy, he needs to be sent down. I think last night finished any hope that he would pull out of this slump at the big league level. The pressure he’s under has to be off the charts. Bobby should have sat him down for a week 30 games ago. Why not bring up Jason Perry from Richmond? At AA and AAA this year he’s hit .311, 18 HRs, 55 RBIs, .415 OBP, .621 SLG and 1.035 OPS. And he went to school at GT.
By DonCoburleone
July 3, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
If the Phillies finish off the sweep tonight (which I fully expect they will based on how we’ve simply rolled over and died each time they’ve come to town) and this team is sitting there 7 games out of first with 3 teams ahead of them can we finally stop the crazy talk about the Braves being contenders this year?
Right now, this season, is PERFECT to start rebuilding. We’ve lost our #1 & #3 starters, our #1 & #2 bullpen arms, our starting LF, starting CF and starting 3B to significant DL time this year. We are hovering right around .500 this year which is exactly what we’ve done for the last 2 1/2 seasons! Smoltz is not gonna be back next season (except for maybe sometime in August), Glavine is probably (and should be) gone, Moylan will be a non-factor, Soriano is a GIANT ?, Will Ohman will be gone, Mark Kotsay is outta here - This team needs to start acting like what they really are - a mid-market team who should be getting younger, cheaper, and prepared for a sustained level of excellence in the future instead of trying to eek out one final playoff appearance for the OLD GUYS (Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper, COX).
By bravesfan
July 3, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Prado has been activated, and he is in the starting lineup. G Blanco, CF Y Escobar, SS C Jones, 3B M Teixeira, 1B O Infante, LF B McCann, C J Francouer, RF M Prado, 2B J Jurrjens, P
By ncgary
July 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
great blog as always
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Any idea what the lineup looks like tonight, anyone?
I guess since they’re so desperate for a win, we won’t see Corky, right?
By DirtyDawg
July 3, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur will never be anything better than an average to below average major leaguer until he absolutely removes the left side of the diamond from his mind. Get the old man, Julio Franco, to sign on as a special hitting coach for Francoeur. Make him hit everything to right…starting with as closed a stance as is possible - make it impossible for him to hit anything to left other than a slow curve on the inside. This way - with his snail-slow bat speed - he just might be able to get the fat part on the ball.
I hate it that the kid’s in this monumental slump, but the boos aren’t necessarily just for him, they’re at the same time a message to Bobby and Terry that they aren’t doing him any favors making him play his way out - which ain’t working - at the major league level. If he won’t listen to their counsel, or can’t apply what they’re telling him, then he needs to get someplace where he can overhaul his approach at the plate in game conditions with nothing more at stake than a minor league game result.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the lineup, Bravesfan. Where do you get it from so quickly?
Maybe a tricky pitcher is just what J. Porter ordered—seeing as how they can’t beat the nobodies.
By braves70
July 3, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Generalisimo Cox says NO! We have put up with his inept leadership so long that he now sees himself as the Pope of Baseball. He can appoint Bishops for life and he has chosen Francoeur. Apparently we can all just watch something else if we don’t like it, which many of us are already doing. Please remove Captain Queeg (Cox) so he will quit asking who stole the strawberries (Francoeur).
By Ted Williams
July 3, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
406th?
By braveswin
July 3, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves need to hire a hitting coach. If the hitting coach @ Richmond can get JF out of this funk then maybe he should be promoted. Either way, TP needs to go he has been a pariah on Braves bats since hired
By DonCoburleone
July 3, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
The Braves should be looking to trade the following players:
Mark Kotsay - Hopefully he can come back and play well for the next few weeks so his value increases. If he proves to be healthy he’s worth something
Will Ohman - I would say easily our most consistent bullpen arm this year, and he’s a FA after this season. He would definately draw interest from teams who miss out on the more prized lefties like Brian Fuentes and Damaso Marte.
Matt Diaz - I doubt he has much trade value by himself right now, but as part of a bigger package I bet another team would want him.
Tim Hudson - I know I know, whaaat? But he is BY FAR our best trade chip and is really the only person on our roster who could bring back potential IMPACT players.
My Plan: Tampa Bay is currently in the market for a Right Handed hitting outfielder who can rake lefties (Diaz) and an experienced bullpen arm (Ohman). I trade Diaz and Ohman to TB for one of their pitching prospects (Niemann if at all possible)… 2nd, trade Tim Hudson to Milwaukee for one of their stud hitting prospects (Gamels, LaPorta), a legit pitching prospect, and another throw in. Milwaukee is definately in the market for a stud pitcher to go alongside Sheets and Parra, so we could probably get even more than what I just mentioned for him.
By Buddy Roe
July 3, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Yes - Francouer is stinking up the joint but remember folks…this Braves regime(Cox) have had this “bend but dont brake” attitude for years. This regime is known for providing mediocre results with more talent and pampering/protecting players for years. As stated previously, this regime is more concerned about image than substance and winning. This regime has ran good players out of town and kept/acquired washed up talent. Why did we re-sign Glavine? Why is Hampton still on the roster? Why did we allow Andruw to stay so long? Why did we get rid of De Rosa? All p** poor decisions under this regime. I don’t anticipate the Braves sending Francouer down to AAA because after all - that would be a good decision and it’s been a loooong time since they made one of those.
By who cares
July 3, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
People,get off of Frenchy. Is it his fault that the Braves have 3 minor league pitchers in their starting rotation. Give me a break, they were behind 5-0 in both games before they knew what had hit them, or should i say what had hit this pathetic pitching staff. I know, everyone will say if not for the injuries to our 40 year old pitching staff(Smoltz, Glavine, and the not 40 yr old arm, but 50 yr old arm Hampton). All goes back to management that put this pathetic staff together. Frank Wren will not make a decision without God looking over his shoulder. If he was his own man, he would trade Tex, and get rid of Cox and Pendleton, and bring in exciting new management.Don’t think so!!
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Wait half a second—if Prado’s been activated, who’d they cann?
Prob’ly Squeak…
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Prado in the lineup. They haven’t announced it yet, but it’s gonna be Lillibridge getting sent to Richmond, as expected.
Kotsay’s getting a day off. Probably the way they’re going to do it to try to keep him healthy. Says he feels fine, though doesn’t look too comfortable.
Bobby said Kotsay would play rest of week after tonight.
The lineup:
By Lowcountry Bulldawg
July 3, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
Sounds like the Braves are in the same position now as back in ‘88 with Ron Gant. Gant came up as a 2b and in ‘87 had a good rookie year and then in ‘88 couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn. Cox was the GM back and might want to have Gant talk to Frenchy about being sent down. It was what probably saved Gants career.
By bravesfan
July 3, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
McFann©, no problem. I get them from a lot of different sites. Most of the time Fox Sports or SportsNetwork.
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
if anyone is wondering why Kelly’s not playing he’s like 1-11 against Hamels and I don’t mind seeing him get due time off he doesn’t need to tire since OTHERS aren’t produsing. Here’s to a strong game for Prado and Omar…hopefully a right handed dominant lineup will work for us…
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
At the risk of incurring DOB’s wrath, we need to do a Marlin purge. The Florida Marlins do know how to trade their players and get better. We need to do that as wellJim Hertel
No, you won’t get my wrath. Just the assurance it’ll never, ever happen. Because the Marlins purge in order to strip payroll to unbelievably low levels because they have no attendance and a bad stadium deal. The Braves don’t have any need to strip payroll to ridiculously low levels. See how that works?
By DonCoburleone
July 3, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
Who Cares I am right there with you man… It is time for some new blood in this organization, since when did .500 baseball become acceptable in Atlanta???
By Ronzul
July 3, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
SIGN KLESKO NOW!!!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
prattville: Grady Sizemore? GRADY SIZEMORE? What on earth are you talking about? The Indians are not trading Grady Sizemore. Preposterous.
By TennesseePaul
July 3, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
NCScoots: I’d love to oblige but I’m trying to keep my post length under 2000 words.
By Deep Throat
July 3, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Does anyone think if Kelly Johnson were hitting like Francoeur this season he’d still be playing? Anyone at all?
It’s time for the Braves to drop Francoeur from their marketing and try and sell fans, potential fans and ticket-buyers on the young trio of McCann, Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels, was it that obvious? Actually I was scarfing a couple of cheese dogs (Ballpark franks, all beef, ummm) in my kitchen as I did that interview….
Glove51, send me an e-mail at dobrien@ajc.com. I’d like to get a copy of that Wilco live boot.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Bravesfan!
And thanks for the info, Chief! I think that’s a smart idea—to rest Kotsay a little more.
Rest every once in a while cann do a player some good, especially if he’s struggling…
By Curt
July 3, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
As Yogi Berra said, the game is 90% mental and the other half is physical. Francouer is pressing right now which now really emphasizes the problems he has always had with his swing. Actually his swing is decent, it’s what he swings at that is wrong and makes his swing look worse. chipper is right, he needs to find a way to get back to the old carefree Jeff.
I think a stint in the minors or at the very least some bench time would work for him.
However, I do not think the Braves losing can be placed on Jeff’s shoulders. The fact is that Cox will NOT do the things necessary to win. That is play small ball. How many times could the Braves have bunted, stolen or hit and run to get runners to advance. When you are hurting for wins, you should do whatever it takes to get them. And here is Cox, sitting around wating for the big hit…ughh!!!
By Batboy Bill
July 3, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
It’s just a thought and probably coincidental, but has anyone noticed over the years how the performance of so many athletes goes right in the tank about the time they get married?
By who cares
July 3, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
2249, luv your passion, but the reason nobody can name any of the arms in the braves bullpen is because none of them belong in the majors. They all have era’s over 4, and that is pathetic for the bullpen.Face the facts, no other major league team would have these losers on their roster. Like i said before, it all goes back to Wren,Cox,and former GM(God). The reason they have no name bullpen is because, management is spending over $30 million on over the hill starters(Smoltz, Hampton,and Glavine) Therefore,no money to spend on bullpen, and therefore you get no names that no one wants. I’m out.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
Kelly is, indeed, 1-for-11 with two walks and two K’s against young Hamels. Thus the night off, Bobby going with the lefty-right thing (which, in this case, is probably a good call, even though KJ is hitting .322 against lefties.
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
whocares
I can’t tell you what the BP’s era was before the AS break each year but I can tell you right now this bullpen is the ONLY ATL bullpen since 2002 that has an era under 4 so far. So yeah THEY BELONG!!
By N8
July 3, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Lowcountry Bulldawg
You’re wrong on ALL counts, regarding Gant.
In 87, he only played in a handful of games upon his callup.
In 88, while starting slow with the stick, he finished strong, landing himself in the top 5 in the ROY voting.
It was his HORRIFIC defense at 2B and 3B in 1988 the first 3 months of 1989 that got him sent down in the middle of June to learn to play the OF. He wasn’t recalled until September of that year.
So, when all was said and done, sending down the kid that finished 4th in the ROY voting the year before, for two months “saved” his career. They thought enough of him, to send him down, have him learn a new position and recalled him, never to send him down again.
Sending Frenchy down (even if for different reasons than Gant) is the right thing to do for the kid. Lets take the Braves playoff (LOL!) push out of the equation for just one day. If Francoeur is gonna have ANY chance at a lengthy MLB career, this is a MUST, not a “last resort”.
Jeff Francoeur is 24 years old right now. Wanna guess how old Gant was in 1989 when they sent him back down in mid-season? Yup. 24.
Many have stated that this will “crush” Jeff or ruin his confidence. Really? What confidence do you think that is? I haven’t seen any on his face since LAST YEAR.
When (if), Jeff gets sent down, it’s up to HIM, to make the most of it, and to make sure it never has to happen again.
For his sake (whether he’s with the Braves or not), lets hope he looks back in 10 years, and says that 2008 was rock bottom, and he owes it to Braves management for sending him down to “find himself”.
Ultimately, I want whats best for Jeff.
1) He seems like a good dude, that works his azz off, and gives good effort.
2) If he gets going, thats good for the Braves (either by his helping them on the field, or via upping his trade value).
3) No matter how hard he’s struggling right now, nobody deserves to get booed (unless they’re making - or asking for - 20 million dollars per year), at his age. Too bad his manager thinks he’s doing him a “favor” by keeping him out there to dig himself deeper in the fans eyes.
For cryin’ out loud, have some mercy on the kid and send him down already.
By George W. Bush
July 3, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
KJ is hitting .322 against lefties. Francoeur’s hit .215 against lefties
You’re doing a heckuva job Bobby.
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Let’s hope Nomar and Druw don’t rediscover their swings…they weren’t expected back til around the ASB but since Raffy is having surgery and Pierre went on the DL they are returning this weekend and we go out there Monday.
By Tron
July 3, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
One hundred and fifty-fourth! Yes!
By Marty
July 3, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
I don’t come on here much anymore, but I just had to say one thing.
I was at the game last night and got to see (and hear) the unfortunate spectacle of people booing Jeff Francoeur. This is absolutely shameful. Call me old-fashioned at only 28 years old, but how can you boo a kid who plays hard and so obviously cares about his performance and is all broken up about not being able to help his team? Sure, Jeff is slumping mightily — everybody knows that. But as long as they’re putting him in there and he’s playing hard and doing his best to fix whatever it is that ails him, I won’t boo him.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
by the way, Glavine had progress in past couple days, just in his stretching and rehab work. Now plans to travel with the team and start throwing during trip. If all goes well, he wants to be throwing off mound a day or two after All-Star break, and from there, no timetable, just move forward according to how he feels.
But it’s uncertainty with this injury, he knows he could need surgery, but wants to first see if he can avoid it and pitch rest of season.
By Pat
July 3, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Why did no one suggest Andruw Jones get sent down last year when he slumped through the whole season? Francoeur is hitting 14 points higher than Andruw hit all season in 2007.
By Joe
July 3, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
I was at the game last night. Frenchy is absolutely lost right now. Teixeira almost saved the game with his first swing drive that went foul, but his strikeout was pathetic, even against Lidge. Bases loaded three times, no production. Glad to see Chipper is feeling better and continuing to produce…he’s about the only one. My real gripe, though, is with Bobby. I couldn’t, for the life of me, figure out why he brought in Ring with the Phils best lefties coming up. Wouldn’t that be the spot to bring in our best lefty, Gonzo? Who cares if it’s not a save situation?? He hasn’t pitched all that much, this was the spot in the game, in the last inning, where you NEED to hold them. I just can’t figure it out. Pathetic decision making.
By TrueATLfan
July 3, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
Simply, the Braves have much more invested in Jeff. He got over 2 million dollars to sign with the Braves out of high school. That’s a hell of a lot more than the bucket of peanuts they gave Blanco or the Dennis the Menace magazines they gave Kelly Johnson. So get it through your head and accept that they have a vested interest in Jeff that they don’t have with others. Keep in mind that this is a business and Jeff will be given every oppurtunity to prove his worth. 6 more hits in a month does not make a Venezualean more valuable than the future of the franchise, sorry.
Refer to Willie Harris, one season does not make you. Blanco had not even been hitting well until the last couple of weeks. Take it easy people and be realistic. The Braves are not going anywhere this year and all of this crap is just pushing up Francoeur asking price. Who would take a hometown discount from a home that boos him? Garbage.
By Braves never win on the road
July 3, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
I’m not going waste my time watching JF go 0 for 4 tonight …another loss oh well
By who cares
July 3, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
2249, you didn’t mention the fact that this bullpen has more blown saves than saves, or the fact that the braves have the worst record in one loss games(4wins, 21 losses), since any team in majors since 1901,and most of this is because of the pathetic bullpen. Ask Hudson how bad they are. You think they belong, then chew on these great stats: Bennett-4.10 era, Ridgeway-4.15, Boyer-4.27,Acosta-4.46, Gonzo-4.50, Resop-5.89. Also, braves era was always considered a joke if it was over 3.00, not 4.00 like you mentioned. They clearly aren’t getting the job done, and no they don’t belong. And 4.00 era in bullpen = blown saves and many one run losses. Also, for 12 years the braves had 3 hall of fame starters that didn’t need a bullpen.
By N8
July 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
* Pat*
“Why did no one suggest Andruw Jones get sent down last year when he slumped through the whole season? Francoeur is hitting 14 points higher than Andruw hit all season in 2007.”
You must be new to the Blog, huh? Sending Andruw to the minors was a DAILY discussion last year.
Try and keep up.
By f.n.hale
July 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
i don’t get a chance to read all of the blogs because i have a life, but find it truly passionate and entertaining. excuse the rehash if this has been brought up before, but i really think frenchy’s problems stem from him putting too much pressure on himself over the contract situation. i mean, here’s your hometown golden boy and the team tries to sign him long term (not saying he should have signed if he didn’t believe the value was there) and i think the perception was/is that he had an overinflated idea of his value, and folks felt betrayed. he has to be feeling like he needed to have a big year to show the team and fans he was worth the money. i know this idea will get, probably 0 support, but i think the team should reopen negotiations on a contract and try to hit somewhere between what was offered and what frenchy wanted. sounds crazy to offer long term to someone so obviously clueless at the moment, but how many (other than the regular naysayers here) believe he went from a good player, on the verge of being a very good player to terrible? not many will agree, but i thought his year last year with the improvement in pitch selection and contact showed he was maturing and that he was on the verge even with reduced power numbers. if chicks dig the longball, g.m.’s dig it even more and i think he started the year trying to show he’s a 35-40 hr guy to justify the big bucks and now is just lost. i say sign him up, but hell it ain’t my money.
By WIN ONE FOR BOBBY
July 3, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
JUST LISTEN TO BOBBY
By Lowcountry Bulldawg
July 3, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
N8,
Excuse me for not googling the years. It had been 20 years. Jeez… Yeah that .177 AVG. through 75 games had nothing to do with him getting sent down either. The errors where very significant, but if Gant was hitting .290 I seriously doubt he would have been sent down.
So it is you who is wrong on all accounts. Must be a Tech fan….
By ATL
July 3, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Good for you, Marty.
I’m sure the booing helps, don’t you think??? I mean, when things are going bad, boo. That’s the answer. I’m sure it helps a lot. Is this Philly?
You people that boo one individual player are shameful. Great fans. I wonder how many of you have even played ANY sport competitively..
By N8
July 3, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
TrueATLfan
“So get it through your head and accept that they have a vested interest in Jeff that they don’t have with others.”
If you were REALLY what your moniker claims you are, you would understand that the reason you gave is THAT MUCH MORE of a reason to send him down and make sure he gets straightened out.
The way that they keep throwing him to the wolves (and the boos) is what you would expect an organization to do with somebody they have ZERO “vested interest’ in, not the “future of the franchise”.
Again. See Ron Gant in 1989. He was in the big-leauges 3 years BEFORE Justice made his debut. It’s safe to assume, that Ron Gant was every bit as important to the “future of the franchise” in 1989, as Jeff Francoeur is in 2008.
Perhaps Gant was MORE important, since it seems as though we have a glut of up and coming OF prospects on the way. That could not be said in 1989.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 3, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Ok everyone…I get the message about Sizemore…Bad suggestion. I was simply looking at good players on bad teams….
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
whocares
if you knew anything you’d know that 1 one loss goes back to last year when about 2 guys in this pen now where in that pen then and it’s not all the pen’s fault do your homework.
And everyone needs to get over Maddux Glavine and Smoltz those days are over…okay…they didn’t need a bullpen but these guys do SO what?
By ncscoots
July 3, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, roger that on your 6:03. Understood. There’s also the little problem, when repeating one of these “solutions”, of upchucking your pastrami. I can see where that might be an idea-killer, too.
By Ron Gant
July 3, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
Hey fellas, thanks for all the love. Haven’t had this many mentions in over a decade. Thanks to you too Frenchy for keeping me relevant, I say send the boy down that way you people will talk about me for the next 5 years when he gets back up from the minors and kicks a@@ like I did when I came back up.
By prattvillenolzfan`
July 3, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
Here we go again……
By SlimG
July 3, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Time for Bobby to go. No motivation on this team, if this were N.Y., Cox would have been gone after the 2nd time we lost in the world series(surely after being up 2-0 going back home and lost 4 straight). Frenchy was a way better football player than a baseball guy. Makes you wonder how bad the players were when he came out. Nice story but an average baseball player who will never be an All Star in this league.
By scottbravesfan
July 3, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
I don’t see how you couldn’t send Francoeur down. The guy has been awful this year and he’s killing the team. The team should always come before an individual. I never understood why the Braves marketed so hard around Jeff but not McCann who is a far superior player.
By N8
July 3, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
* Lowcountry Bulldawg*
“Excuse me for not googling the years. It had been 20 years. Jeez… “
I didn’t google the years either. Just remember it happening like it was yesterday, and remember very vividly Skip talking about him getting sent down to learn a new position.
“Yeah that .177 AVG. through 75 games had nothing to do with him getting sent down either.”
Looks like you googled those numbers, huh? To bad you didn’t dig deeper. It wasn’t a .177 average THROUGH 75 games. He had a .168 average after 60 games played (68 team games), then was sent down for two months and proceeded to come up in mid-September (after learning a new position), and played 15 games in September at his new position.
He THEN proceeded to hit .303 with 32 HR & 84 RBI in 1990. I’d say that getting comfortable with a new position (along with getting a cup of coffee at that position the year before), was JUST what he needed.
Yes, his bat wasn’t very good. I recall them saying that his DEFENSE was affecting him at the plate. 49 errors in 1988 & 1989 combined (227 games), will mess you up at the plate a little bit. For the record, in about 210 games at 2B, Kelly Johnson (often thought to be poor defensively), has only made 22 errors. You do the math. THAT is how horrible Gant’s defense at 2B and 3B was back then.
“So it is you who is wrong on all accounts. Must be a Tech fan….”
Nope. You’re still wrong. As for being a Tech fan?
Wrong again….Nice try though.
By Doc Holliday
July 3, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
Braves worst offensive regular is the one with the more games played and the more AB…….no wonder why we are 6 GB.
KJ sits, Kotsay sits, JF plays…….go figure.
By N8
July 3, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Nice AB Tex.
That guy has taken more called 3rd strikes than ANY Braves clean-up hitter that I can remember.
By Jerald Holcombe
July 3, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
0 for 2 RISP in the very first inning. Another great start.
By Doc Holliday
July 3, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Is there a chance phillies take Dbacks road=?
By who cares
July 3, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
2249, you obiously have no clue or facts about what you are talking about.I gave you all the facts about you and your great bullpen era this year. And those one run games are all this year. You have no facts, nor do you have any idea about what you are running your mouth about. Sorry i gave you facts and numbers to support your claim about why this pathetic bullpen doesn’t deserve to be in majors. If you had a clue, i wasn’t saying glavine, and smoltz were any good now, I was commenting on your stupid comment about how great era was of this bullpen. Didn’t need a good bullpen when they were in there prime.If you can’t support your bs, then don’t bring it.
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Frenchy was a way better football player than a baseball guy.
Really? According to rivals.com, he was the 11th ranked safety in the nation coming out of high school. He was drafted with the 23rd pick overall in the baseball draft. And he would have been picked higher if teams were not afraid of wasting a pick if he ran off to Clemson. Sounds like he was better in baseball.
Just saw that Jimmy Williams was the 17th ranked safety that year. Unfortunately, the Falcons drafted him in the first round as a cornerback. Didn’t work out so well. Just got cut. Good riddance to the Rich McKay era.
By Don
July 3, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
Good call Doc, at this point a lefty Johnson has a better shot at hitting Hamels than Francour.
Cox has become a joke.
By Andruw Jones
July 3, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
That guy has taken more called 3rd strikes than ANY Braves clean-up hitter that I can remember.
N8, that’s because you are used to me as the cleanup hitter. I might have gone down feebly but rarely looking. I got my hacks in.
By Jerald Holcombe
July 3, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
0 for 5 RISP
By Deep Throat
July 3, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
That was an at-bat I would have liked a bunt. Francoeur is horrible. Why not? It’d be 1-1 right now.
0-5 with runners in scoring position tonight. First and second and no one out and no runs scored.
In short: new day, same BS.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Ah! No cann do with men ISP. This is seriously getting sad…
By Andruw Jones
July 3, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
I would have caught that
By Marie
July 3, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
Doc -Kotsay sits because he’s coming back from an injury Kelly Johnson sits because he hasn’t hit Hamels. Duh!
By Baseball Fan
July 3, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
I know i’m going to be the 100th person to give Francouer some advice here but when you’re struggling it doesn’t hurt to cut down on your swing. Swinging for the fences won’t break your slump. Startover with the basics. You got to walk before you run, so it wouldn’t hurt just to try get a single, which counts as a hit too, before you try the long ball. By the way the Phillies are not that good. They can’t hit against good pitchers as their recent slump has shown and their brief appearance in the playoffs last year showed. They just happened to take advantage of our young pitchers, while we can’t take advantage of any kind of pitchers. The Braves as a team are hurting themselves more in scoring situations than the opposing pitchers.
By Jerald Holcombe
July 3, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
Great job of pitching after that triple. We need all the help we can get.
By StingerSplash
July 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Damn, JJ’s got a pair of steel ones, huh?
By jon
July 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Why doesn’t Cox just give the kid a night or two off. You can’t run automatic out / rally killer out there night after night.
But the Braves as a team need to get mad. Philly is not that much better than the Braves, but the Braves are just rolling over for them every night. The Phillies are digging in and swinging away. Some Philly hitters need to get their britches dirty at the plate.
I am a great Bobby Cox fan, but I believe his time is done. He does not inspire his players to not get pushed around. Philly has swept the Braves at home for 3 straight series, and it doesn’t p** anybody off except us fans.
By ncscoots
July 3, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
0-5 with runners in scoring position tonight
So are the Phillies. Get a grip, man.
By Dallas
July 3, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Hamels is drunk out there, and we still can’t score off of him
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
If Arod is really dating that old washed up skank Madonna, then he is a much sadder human being than I thought.
By Edward
July 3, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
2 for their last 38 with RISP…My lord is this team TERRIBLE!!!….Prepare for Next Year, Mr.Wren!
By Jeff321
July 3, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
So, how did bringing the infield IN work out for ya, Cox?
By Bill
July 3, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
who cares- The so called minor league pitchers is not the problem. They can’t hit especially with runners on. If it wasn’t for the minor league pitchers, they would be farther behind. Don’t blame it on the pitchers, look at the stat’s on the hitters.
By braves70
July 3, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Hey I see Santa Clause (Claus) is at the game tonight. Please Santa, all we want for Christmas is a new non-senile manager. You can have the old one.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Play was ruled a hit, but Escobar clearly should’ve caught it, from my vantage point. That’s a couple of them that he’s booted recently, one before the shoulder injury and one since. So rare that he does it, it stands out when he does.
By Bobby's Cox
July 3, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Random
Excellent 4:19 post.
I agree with you. Chipper needs to hit like he was earlier in the year. I always thought he WAS producing with power. Now he may be trying to go down and the power nor the avg hasn’t been there recently.
Tex has heated up (before this homestand), Frenchy should be gone soon, Diaz back, Prado back, hit like you were Chipper!
By GSU-Lee
July 3, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
DOB, Mike Gonzales is signed through this season and that’s it right? If so, do you think the Braves would try to trade him if they continue to fall? Might be worth it if they don’t have him in the long-term plans.
By StingerSplash
July 3, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Didn’t somebody whose name rhymes with DOB promise some Kotsay quotes on Hanson?
By REV MCCRARY
July 3, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Its time for the CHOSEN ONE to sit down of be sent down
By Bobby's Cox
July 3, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Maybe Frenchy chose baseball because football contracts aren’t guaranteed.
Guess that low contract offer frenchy rejected from the braves isn’t guaranteed anymore either.
By Thor
July 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
I love the Braves but I truly hate this year’s team.
However, it is like a damn car wreck, I cannot keep myself from watching this mess. I don’t want to watch, i tell myself I am not going to watch, yet each night, I find myself punching in the numbers for the stupid Peachtree Network.
By geauxbraves2000
July 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Did anyone really expect anything else that what we are seeing/hearing tonight?
An ace LHP vs a lineup that’s not hitting right now.
I really don’t think this team has anything for anyone right now. Unless some drastic changes are made, and I know all of us could think of a couple.
Here’s to seeing a couple of bloops and blast, and maybe by some chance the Bravos can pull one out.
Geaux Braves!!
By StingerSplash
July 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Hamels is good, but this offensive performance tonight is pathetic. Jurrjens has done everything he can and this is what he gets. OK, 3-0. This one is over and the Braves have apparently rousted the Phillies from their slumber.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
I,see that yard Buzzard from Gwinnett,is in the 7 hole,and doing a damn fine job of NOTHING!!!In fact everybody,except Jurrjens, is doing a fine Go*d@mned Job of doing NOTHING!!!!Pro Athletes My @ss!!!! Tex= 20 mil,I don’t think so,Francouer,call girls get more action than he does,and Who in the blue Hell, decided that escobar can’t Express Himself!!!Yet another Gutless Offensive,and I do mean OFFENSIVE performance!!!All This GARBAGE,AND FRANKY WREN SITS ON HIS @SS!!!AS I TYPE THIS,OL F@TA$$ RYAN THE DOUGHBOY HOWARD TAKES JJ DEEP!!! WHAT A TAEM,GO TO HE11 LIBERTY MEDIA!!!THIS GARBAGE IS ALL ON YOU,BOTTOM FEEDING SONSABITCHES!!!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
Howard is THE Braves killer among active players.
By the way, he’s leading the league in RBIs and barely hitting .220. Has this ever been done? He’s got more extra-base hits (36) than singles (35).
Of course, Big Mac had more homers than singles one year, didn’t he? But Mac never hit for such a low average, that is until the end, when he hit .187 with 29 bombs and only 27 other hits in his final season.
By Terry Pendleton
July 3, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
I’d rather have KJ in left tonight vs. Hamels than frenchy.
By REV MCCRARY
July 3, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Look the man need help , let him take some time off, are may help the ball boy its that time
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Hey Yo Braves, these low life Philthies aren’t going to lay down for ya, stop with the Gutless Arrogance,I remember a friend of mine once, had a partner,my friend found himself in a bad way, what did the partner do?He Slapped the taste out of his mouth,and told him to get up,get his @ss to work,and stop whining!!! This is what this Gutless team needs. THE HE11 Slapped Out of Them!!!!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
Just looked it up to see if memory served correctly, and it did: Mac had 70 homers and 61 singles in 1998, when he hit .299 with 147 RBI.
Ahh, the days of juice and roses… er, wine and roses.
By ijonathan
July 3, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
Atta boy Tex. Way to take that third strike.
By Deep Throat
July 3, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
My prediction before the game started: Jurrjens gives up three runs in six innings, Braves continue to look like garbage at the plate, Francoeur kills a potential rally, Braves score one run in the eighth and lose 3-1.
So far, so good.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
However, it is like a damn car wreck, I cannot keep myself from watching this mess. I don’t want to watch, i tell myself I am not going to watch, yet each night, I find myself punching in the numbers for the stupid Peachtree Network.Thor
I like a man who’s honest.
I bet there are a whole lot of others in the same boat, my friend. You can’t turn away from this unfolding tragedy.
By Robert
July 3, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
The Chosen One isnt the problem.
Fire The Stupid One and the Braves will be ok
By Ned
July 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
REBUILD
REBUILD
REBUILD
REBUILD
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
somebody needs to tell Frank Wren,the Richmond team is not due in Gwinnett,until next year,This $hit SUCKS!!!
By Hank Williams
July 3, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
This game is causing a tear in my beer
By GSU-Lee
July 3, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
I am with Thor. That is the insanity of fanhood, isn’t it? Why would you honestly want to put yourself through that day-in and day-out? I have no idea, maybe it’s because we all are dillusional and hold out hope. Either way, I am in the same boat. What was it that Cubs fans always said?….there’s always next year?…well, guess I will keep waiting for next year to come.
By A-ville Ranger
July 3, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
I’m listening to the Peachtree announcers talk about Cole Hamels as if he were impossible to score on.In his last 7 starts before tonight beginning with his most recent he’s given up 4-3-2-2-0-7 and 6 earned runs.That is good but hardly unhitable.This wuss-cancer is spreading to everything connected to the team.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Rollins had a very good lead off Jurrjens.
Come on…You cannot tell me that the pitchers aren’t to be partially blamed for this base-stealing crud.
By Bruce's Pearl
July 3, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
If Jeff Francouer were a dog, every fire hydrant in Atlanta would be safe.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Win tonight will give Philly nine wins in its past 10 games against the Braves.
Elias says only time a team has won nine in 10 games against the Braves since The Run (past tense, literally and figuratively) began in 1991 was the Cubs, who did it over the ‘98-99 seasons.
By Doc Holliday
July 3, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
How would frenchy look in a dodgers uniform??????
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
OK, now…something is not right.
Do you want the All-Star nod or not, my friend?
40 strikeouts?? Are you nuts? Please go back to your old way of batting! That is to say, GET SOME FREAKIN’ HITS!! PLEASE!!
:,(
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
And Somebody needs to tell that two faced Philly/gwinnett Homer,John Kincaid to save His Self Righteous Garbage for someone who really gives a Damn,680 the fan lost one Listener today,namely me,How does some Scumbag Phillie loving LOUDMOUTH that Lives in Gwinnett, home of the RUDEST PEOPLE in the World, have the damn Gall to Preach to real,and I mean Real Atlanta Fans????Stuff It Kincaid,piece of CRAP!!!!!
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Will Ohman,now that’s How to pitch!!!Learn Something BOYER!!!!
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Rebuild with what Ned? Do some of you pay attention at all? The problem with this team is that they are very young. Morton, James, Jurrjens, Reyes, the relievers, Escobar, KJ, Frenchy, Brandon Jones, Blanco, Prado, McCann, Infante, Gotay, Lillibridge are all young and inexperienced. Another problem with the whole stupid rebuild demand is that they don’t have the impactful players at AA and AAA right now needed to fill holes on the big league squad. Anyone who demands a REBUILD is apparently oblivious to the age and inexperience of the players actually playing and what is actually causing the unfortunate results
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Joebrave Gwinnett, home of the RUDEST PEOPLE in the World
Hey! Come on, now…
By Efrim
July 3, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Cole Hamels is an ace.
1’s pitch these types of games.By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Come on…You cannot tell me that the pitchers aren’t to be partially blamed for this base-stealing crud.
Maybe they figure why should they waste time holding runners when the noodle armed McCann never has a prayer of throwing anyone out anyway.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
In there everyday Mcfann,and he11 yes RUDE!!!
By Robert
July 3, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Werent the Phillies like 2-9 in the past two weeks before this series started?
A struggling squad suddenly gets on a roll the minute they get to play a Bobby Cox team
Is it July or October?
By Gwinnettian
July 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Gwinnett people are the rudest people in the world? So so says the foulmouthed tornado bait that is joebrave.
By ijonathan
July 3, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave
Almost drove off the road listening to Krap-caid on the radio tonight. We shouldn’t boo poor Jeff Francouer…how’s that going to “help” him. We’re becoming just like Philly and NY fans, you know, being mean and stuff with our booing. He said Jeff’s had a bad “2 week stretch”. Two weeks my a$$.
By geauxbraves2000
July 3, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Hitting is contagious, as are slumps. Which member of this team is in the most epic slump?
When that person is not around anymore, maybe others will take notice and maybe start hitting. Hitting is contagious.
One more try to at least get this game tied.
Geaux Braves!!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Joebrave, you need to at least listen to them for the 15 minutes I do with them on Tuesday and Friday at 5:10.
By Robert
July 3, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Just cuz a team is less than a half-dozen games back in the standings doesnt mean they are in the playoff race
Just like making the playoffs doesnt mean a team is a WS contender
By ijonathan
July 3, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
Hmmm…leadoff double by Chipper…how many of you are doing the math in your head to figure out how Frenchy will kill teh rally?
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
Proof is in the soup Gwinetian,bunch of homers,think You’re better than everybody else,Gwinnett Sucks!!!!
By Random
July 3, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul —
How in the world did you do your carriage returns (paragraph markers) in your 3:40 post? How did you keep your separate items (Frenchy’s itemized “problems”) from running together?
Even DOB has to put a blank line between the lines of his song lyrics to prevent rampant word-wrapping.
Serious — what’s your secret? Some kind of cut & paste? From what kind of source document?
Thanks.
By Robert
July 3, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Who sees the outcome of this game? And I betcha Cox is gonna let him bat, just like he did with Andruw all last year
Bobby Cox is simply the stupidest human being on the planet
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
By the way, Joebrave, two words: anger management.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
This would be Hamels’ third career shutout, and second in seven weeks against the Bravos.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
As I typed that last comment, Mac hit his RBI double to RF. Shutout averted.
Now Francoeur comes to bat … for his sake, wish him well. It could be ugly here if he strikes out.
By geauxbraves2000
July 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
And of course the Golden Boy steps up with the game on the line.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
.282!!! Kiss your shutout goodbye!!
Whew! That feels mighty nice!!
Let’s not stop now!!
By stynes
July 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
DOB -
I’m a long time Braves fan. I grew up in south Mississippi watching the SuperStation rooting for “America’s Team.” I watched Murphy and Horner and all those guys lose. And I had a blast when the family would take a road trip during the summer and come to old Fulton County stadium and I could watch them lose in person. Those teams losing didn’t bother me one bit.
Watching the Braves struggle as they have, especially the past few weeks, has been killing me, though. It’s not because I’m down on the Braves or Bobby or Franceour or anyone else. It’s because this team shouldn’t be losing like the Braves in the 80s did. This team is better than that.
At the beginning of the year, it was the pitching staff the struggled for the most part, especially the bullpen. As the season has worn on, the bullpen has gotten more comfortable, gotten Gonzalez back, and while the rotation has taken its lumps seeing Smoltz and Glavine go down for significant periods and dealing with the disappointment of not getting Hampton back again, the pitching staff has been pretty good. The offense has struggled mightily, though - especially getting the big hit. Even last night’s game, as horrendous as it was, the Braves were right there in it at the end and a couple of times were within a big fly of tying the game.
It’s definitely a psychological thing at this point. And it’s not “playing not to lose” instead of “playing to win” like I’ve heard several say. It’s more than that - deeper than that. It’s playing expecting to lose. Even when they’ve strung together a couple of good wins (I’m thinking most recently the Angels series) their psyche never recovered.
Even as I type this, the Braves finally put a run on the board. But I just don’t see them scoring now expecting to score 4 more times to win the game. They scored in spite of feeling as if they were going to lose. They may even put another runner or two on base but there’s no way they’re going to win this game. They just don’t have the mettle. Maybe they’ll hit a bomb here and cut it to 4-3 before the final batter strikes out. Who knows.
Anyway, I say all that to say this… they’ve just lost (well, with one more out) 6 in a row to the division leaders. They don’t think they can beat the Phillies, plain and simple. If they want to be a playoff team, they’re going to have to beat them at some point and right now they just don’t think they can. If that doesn’t change, their season is done. Trade Tex, get what you can, send Franceour to the minors or whatever he needs to get some confidence back. Rest Glavine as long as he needs it so he’s available next year. Bring up Brandon Jones and anyone that can play first base from Richmond. If they can’t convince themselves of a way to beat the division leaders then that’s what they need to do. How do they get the winning feeling back? That’s my question. How do you repair an entire team’s damaged psyche?
By stynes
July 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
DOB -
I’m a long time Braves fan. I grew up in south Mississippi watching the SuperStation rooting for “America’s Team.” I watched Murphy and Horner and all those guys lose. And I had a blast when the family would take a road trip during the summer and come to old Fulton County stadium and I could watch them lose in person. Those teams losing didn’t bother me one bit.
Watching the Braves struggle as they have, especially the past few weeks, has been killing me, though. It’s not because I’m down on the Braves or Bobby or Franceour or anyone else. It’s because this team shouldn’t be losing like the Braves in the 80s did. This team is better than that.
At the beginning of the year, it was the pitching staff the struggled for the most part, especially the bullpen. As the season has worn on, the bullpen has gotten more comfortable, gotten Gonzalez back, and while the rotation has taken its lumps seeing Smoltz and Glavine go down for significant periods and dealing with the disappointment of not getting Hampton back again, the pitching staff has been pretty good. The offense has struggled mightily, though - especially getting the big hit. Even last night’s game, as horrendous as it was, the Braves were right there in it at the end and a couple of times were within a big fly of tying the game.
It’s definitely a psychological thing at this point. And it’s not “playing not to lose” instead of “playing to win” like I’ve heard several say. It’s more than that - deeper than that. It’s playing expecting to lose. Even when they’ve strung together a couple of good wins (I’m thinking most recently the Angels series) their psyche never recovered.
Even as I type this, the Braves finally put a run on the board. But I just don’t see them scoring now expecting to score 4 more times to win the game. They scored in spite of feeling as if they were going to lose. They may even put another runner or two on base but there’s no way they’re going to win this game. They just don’t have the mettle. Maybe they’ll hit a bomb here and cut it to 4-3 before the final batter strikes out. Who knows.
Anyway, I say all that to say this… they’ve just lost (well, with one more out) 6 in a row to the division leaders. They don’t think they can beat the Phillies, plain and simple. If they want to be a playoff team, they’re going to have to beat them at some point and right now they just don’t think they can. If that doesn’t change, their season is done. Trade Tex, get what you can, send Franceour to the minors or whatever he needs to get some confidence back. Rest Glavine as long as he needs it so he’s available next year. Bring up Brandon Jones and anyone that can play first base from Richmond. If they can’t convince themselves of a way to beat the division leaders then that’s what they need to do. How do they get the winning feeling back? That’s my question. How do you repair an entire team’s damaged psyche?
By geauxbraves2000
July 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Shocker.
By supa
July 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Pinch Hit for Frenchy! Kotsay is on the bench.
By A-ville Ranger
July 3, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
It is really tempting to say something bad about Jeff after that at bat.It’s not his fault he was up in that situation though,it’s Bobby Cox’s call.
By Robert
July 3, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
I was right. Donk let Frenchy bat.
What a total idiot the man is
By supa
July 3, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Well, the worst case scenario happened…again. It’s like deja vu all over again.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Fine! be that way!
Braveheart—
“Noodle arm”? Yeah right. He’s made some very good late throws.
But man, I knew I’d hear from you on this issue. Anyway, there’s nothing in my mind that says McCann doesn’t need to work on his throws. Good gosh! Does he ever need to work on that. But again, the pitchers need to hold ‘em on a little better.
Check this out: The McCann-Hudson battery has a CS% of 44! And you know Timmy loves the fake-to-third, fake-to-first move.
McCann-Jurrjens? 13%. That’s ugly.
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Well I was holding out hope for these guys but I think Wren needs to start thinking about next year as the deadline approaches. Too bad that injuries have largely sealed the Braves’ fate.
But that’s baseball, and that’s the way it goes.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Funny,DOB, I will listen to Your segments, then I am out again,what a joke of a show today!!! I seem to Remember,in April, after the NFL Draft,Ol Kincaid Himself told a caller,They’re Fans They Have The right to Voice their Opinions,Well here is mine for Kincaid,Francouer Sucksssss,And BAD!!! I’m not Angry,I’m P**,No One is a bigger Braves Homer than I,however, if the team can send Bob Horner down,The little Gwinnett Golden Child,with the Big Nose,should,can,and deserves to Go Away!!! Another great ending by that Guy tonight, I might Add!!!
By Dumbing Down
July 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
The love affair with “Frenchy” (AKA the chosen one) smells of incest. He is a homeboy who cannot produce. Get gone while the getting is somewhat good! Any other town he woukd be booed with a justified vengance!
By bravenate
July 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Atlanta Braves sale off the year officially starts !!!!!!NOW!!!!!!
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
BTW—Ugly night for the Cubby Catcher: 0-4 with 3 strikeouts and an error.
By Mark
July 3, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Wilco rocks..great show last year and another great selection
Why do we sit Kelly and play Frenchy?
teams biggest issue is we arent “tough”
By fastasballs
July 3, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
What date did they unveil that humongous chopping bovine? Seems like ever since it showed up the Braves can’t win at home. Only the Braves could be cursed by a chopping cow.
By Random
July 3, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Believe it or not, Joebrave, I’m with you on this one*.
(But not a single other word you’ve posted tonight. Plus, you probably oughta to dial it back a bit, son.)
Bobby’s Cox — thanks. (But I’d be surprised if Francoeur goes anywhere other than the bench for a week or so.)
Good point about the guaranteed contracts in MLB (vice NFL).
By jeanE
July 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Francoeur needs to be sent down, pronto!! He has never had to deal with this before, & it’s obvious, he can’t handle it. The golden boy needs to work the kinks out of his swing in Richmond & let some other player who’s played well, see Brandon Jones, play in right. Have the guts to do it, Cox! It’s the best thing for the player & the team. We are so going nowhere, we are just lost without Smoltz up front, dominating & leading by example. Hudson is Jekyll & Hyde, mostly Hyde. Chipper can’t do it by himself, people!!
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Francant,does it again!!! THIS BUSTER,HAS TO GO AWAY!!!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Yes Sir, I watched the whole game to. I don’t know why, it must be sort of like the fascination of seeing some gruesome car wreck with bodies left laying all over the highway.
The Braves struggles notwithstanding, Cole Hamels carved them up for eight and two-thirds, they had no chance tonight.
Ya’ll have fun this weekend, be safe, don’t drink and drive or play hooky in the middle of the street. I’m headed off to Medora, North Dakota. Gonna do the whole pitchfork fondue, badlands buffalo, horseback riding, country musical, tourist thing.
By GT 81
July 3, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
It’s all about: are you a tough out, or are you an easy out?
With the exception of Chipper Jones, the Braves are all easy outs, especially Frenchy.
The Braves all go quietly. It’s as if they all think they are still on juice, which can’t be true, because even the youngest Braves are subject to this Effect.
Look at Escobar. When he came up, awesome eye, awesome bat control. Now: not as bad as Frenchy, whatever.
The Phillies are all tough outs, even Howard, perhaps especially Howard, given his proclivity to win games close and late despite his low batting average and K’s. The Braves, alas, are all easy outs, even Tex, who raked last year before the Effect took hold, and as he will again someday, somewhere, presumably. Basically, the Braves do not hit line drives, they do not put the sweet spot of the bat on the ball (except CJ). They all think they are still trying to swing as hard as Barry Bonds, but without the 100 walks per year.
The Phillies pitchers don’t have to throw a strike to get the Braves out. You think they are aware of that?
You don’t win like that, you just lose. Did Ted Williams, as he claimed, never swing at a ball out the zone? Who knows? Probably not. If a Braves hitter (other than CJ) could go one AB without swinging at a ball out of the zone, it would seem like a miracle.
And Frenchy? The pitchers are all playing mind games with him, and he isn’t playing any mind games back. Therefore, they have Frenchy’s mind in hand. Poor kid. He didn’t even make megamillions before this hole in his game was revealed. He’ll be fine…he’ll be a great corporate guy.
Wow! The Braves scored a run. The Phils may get the sweep, but they aren’t getting the flipping shutout!
By Interested Observer
July 3, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Talk about wasting a pitcher…9th inning, 2 outs, Francouer coming up, and you bring in a new pitcher?
By GM R
July 3, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
I was there for the 7 -3 loss to the Phils and came to the sad conclusion that JF is so out of sorts he has resorted to laying off the second pitch if he swings at and misses the first one in an attempt to make it look as if he is being selective about his hitting. I had begun to suspect that it was happening earlier this year but came away last night pretty well convinced that when he doesn’t swing it isn’t because of the pitch, it is because he has decided not to swing before the ball is thrown. I also noted how tense his whole body looked - there was no way he could conjure up a fluid swing looking like that. It’s a shame but he needs to be sent down to recover his confidence.
By The Truth
July 3, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
When you have to ask the question you know its pretty obvious what needs to happen. I’m not going to go down the road of “real fan” this or “real fan” that because that’s up to your perception. Its clear that Frenchy is BROKEN mentally…its to a point that you can see it in his eyes now. He’s dreading the fact of coming up to the plate and seeing guys on base. When you’re playing baseball…scratch that….when you’re playing any sport afraid you might as well just go sit in the bleachers and watch.
Frenchy is afraid to bat now…its starting to effect his whole game now. Sit him down a few days…this in no way hurts anybody, but the fans who are so hell bent on telling anybody that they aren’t a “real fan” because they are frustrated and not afraid to speak up. These are the same people who look at you funny when you when you’re trying to enjoy yourself at the game and they beg you to sit down.
Is Frenchy to blame for our most recent losses? Not entirely but he’s definitely playing a large roll in the losses. Who honestly in their right mind can tell people not to complain about a guy who is hitting..what did you say DOB .125 in his last 14 games prior to tonight? Makes things worst is that we are supposed to now rely on Matt Diaz coming off the DL who was doing just as bad as Frenchy prior to sliding into the cement bottom of a wall
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Night, all!!
By Paul Lentz
July 3, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Any good team is going to have 1 or 2 of its main guys struggle at any given point in a season. It is during times like this that 1 or 2 of the other main guys carry the team until the others warm up. Chipper has been consistent the whole year. Tex and McCann have had their hot and cold streaks. However in the past week, Tex and McCann have cooled off, which is normal during the course of a season. This would have been a good time for Franceour to show that he is in fact deserving of the kind of money that McCann gets can carry the Braves. Instead, he continues to be a rally killer, double play and strikeout machine, hacking away at any first pitch he that comes within 2 feet of the strike zone.
At some point in time, Bobby Cox has to sit Franceour down. If Franceour continues to struggle when Diaz comes off the disable list, then if the Braves are serious about winning, then sending Franceour to the minors would be a no brainer. Sitting Franceour on the bench does him, nor the team any good. He needs to play regularly, and work on his swing. Just not at the major league level. The Braves simply cannot afford giving at bats away in his spot of the line-up. Franceour doesnt move runners over, he doesnt hit sacrifice flies, he doesnt walk nor steal bases when he struggles. He just simply makes outs. Even when Tex, Chipper, and McCann struggle, they still draw walks and get on base. However Franceour does not..
I’d send him to the minors right now, however I do not expect that to happen. However if he continues to struggle, then there will be no excuse to not send him down when Diaz gets off the disable list.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Where is Rowland Office,Gary Matthews,Claudell Washington,Gary Sheffield,Otis Nixon,he11 even,Lonnie Smith was better than Jerk Francant!!!
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
stynes,
you have a nice post above, and you are dead right about the team “expecting to lose.” The fans are now the same way.
Last week, we had people on here who were chastising fans for being upset at the Braves for losing to Ben Sheets. Look, people aren’t simply upset that the Braves lost to Ben Sheets. People are upset that there are now a number of pitcheres, and even types of pitchers against whom you can fully expect the Braves to just not show up.
Guys like Sheets, Schilling (although, he’s done, but he owned us from 1995 until he faced us injured in 2007), Hamels, Kerry Wood, and basically any overpowering, dominant right-hander, along with any junk throwing lefty just absolutely kill us.
The list is really piling up of guys we just know we are going to lose to.
Something must be done to break the stranglehold so many pitchers and so many types of pitchers have on this group of Braves. It’s getting tiresome.
I had the realization tonight that the Braves, quite frankly, are not a fun team to watch at all. If I were not a Braves fan, I would have no interest in watching this group of hackers play.
Sad to see what this team has become.
By Bill
July 3, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Are they finished? I hate to say it but sure looks like it. It would take a miracle for them to get in the playoff’s. It’s time for the Braves to start cleaning house. Here is the ones I would trade. Ohman,Tex,Hudson,Diaz? and Kotsay?. I would hate to trade Hudson because a young staff needs a vet. like him. Hudson would probably bring more back than the others. They need a first baseman,third baseman,outfielder and a pitcher plus other prospects.
By geauxbraves2000
July 3, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
JF saw 8 pitches tonight. 4 in the 1st AB. Wouldn’t one in his position want to see some more pitches, to try to learn how the opposition is attempting to pitch to him?
Oh well. BC will continually run ole GB out there day after day. Damn the team and the season, just continue to run the rally killer out there, the infection that is spreading through this team.
BC, love ya man, but I think you be done. You are a great HOF manager, 1st ballot no doubt, whom I think the rest of the league greatly admires, but I think you are hanging on just a little too long. Sure hate to see your HOF career end like this, but even the Babe knew when it was time to hang it up.
Maybe the season can turn around tomorrow.
Geaux Braves!!
By Edward
July 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
The Beggining of th End started TONIGHT!!!!
By Edward
July 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
The Beginning of the End started TONIGHT!!!!
By Random
July 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Why didn’t Cox PH Kotsay for Francoeur? The lefty-righty match-up alone would have provided him all the cover he might have needed (not saying he needed any cover).
By jon
July 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
No fire. No fight. Business as usual. Draw the fat paycheck and go home. There is no need to analyze stats, batting stances or pitching matchups. The team has to care, and mostly they don’t. This is a manifestation of their manager - who does not care. Pencil in the same auto-outs every game, sign up for another year.
By A Real Braves Fan
July 3, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
As a High School Student and an aspiring journalist I see pathetic adults say trade frenchy, Bobby Cox raw ahahaha. Worse than CNN and all the LIberals with Obama, The War and the enviorment. Case and Point.
SHUT UP AND SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. Set an example for us young kids you stiffs! GO BRAVOS, Get out there and support your team, that includes you to Brent a
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Lousy Ownership,money in the bank,see Insurance for Smoltz,Glavine,and Hampton,not to mention Moylan!!!to my accounts,thats roughly,22.5 mil that’s not being spent!!!How long does management expect to think we can’t add,or count???? Frank Wren,J.S.,and Liberty Mediaie:Terry McJerk,are Liars,spend money,make the team better,blah,blah,blah!!!LIES……. I have come to the realization,that Frank Wren is a PUPPET,and J.S. holds the strings,and J.S. is a dummy with McJerks hand up his wazoo!!!!!!
By True Braves Fan
July 3, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
THE BEGINING STARTS TO NIGHT. Get Philly out of town build up. We were like this a couple weeks ago after we got destroyed in Milwaukee add we crawled back. Hide under the covers fairweather fans because I see a change of the winds coming. The Astros are the perfect team to start it.
By Robert
July 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
“You are a great HOF manager, 1st ballot no doubt, whom I think the rest of the league greatly admires”
The rest of the league SAYS they admire Cox. They make especially sure to say it loudly and often when Braves fans or personnel are present
Then they snicker
I guaranTEE you
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
All you Frenchy bashers … the team lost this game, not just one person. But feel free to pile on the kid when he’s down …
By Peter
July 3, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
We have become no different than Cleveland…….Re-Tool……….
Think about this folks, we are 0-6 against the division LEADERS at HOME !
Trade, steal, play the farm…..get rid of Tommy G, and the other waste of time……………………..
We have a fine NEW rotation with Hudson leading the way……….
Some day we will score Runs………….
By Roman Gal
July 3, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
DOB You still gonna give us that scouting report?
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
How much longer before this once proud Franchise, becomes the K.C.Royals Farm Team???????
By MAV
July 3, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
Coach
I thought we got rid of you for the year. We need real fans here. Not people like YOU!
By Wayne in Utah
July 3, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
Interesting how so much can change in just a weeks time…. last week we were talking fairly positive, and now it’s time to throw in the towell??? Maybe it is..
Who/what could we get for a few of our players?
Tex: Is there anyone out there that would give us anything of value for him. I personally think he would be fantastic to sign, but I just don’t have a good feeling for us pony’ing up enough to keep him. Would the Angels give us Kotchman for him? They would have to be confident they could sign him. Boston really needs an outfielder more than a first baseman. The Yankees would probably bite, but for what price?
Hudson: Do we dare even think about trading him?? Best if he goes to the AL, if anywhere. Would the Dodgers send us Matt Kemp for Hudson?
Ohman/Diaz are expendable, but they do not have a high value (maybe Ohman to the right team).
Others??? KJ maybe (we have Prado and Lillibridge and D Hernandez in the wings.
Kotsay?? Gotta give him a chance to play a few weeks, to see if he would be a good bat for the stretch run for some team. Not much value there though.
Campillo?? Sell high??? Or keep, in hopes that he has discovered how to pitch at 29.
I hate giving up…….
By j-school dropout
July 3, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Time to start shopping Tex and maybe Gonzo. Closers always bring more back than they are worth. It’s time to admit that this is not a very good team, and there will be no heroic finish. Philly can’t beat the AL, but they can sure beat the NL. Send Francouer down to Richmond. Let him get his head on straight. If we trade away prospects for anything this year, we are fools. This team is done. I actually think the Nats are better.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
NCBraves fan,don’t pay attention to John Kincaid,He is a two faced Idiot!!!!!That Fool is Philthie Fan!!!!!!And a Retard to Boot!!!! At This point Jeff Francant the Player SUckS,and Bad,Jeff Francouer the man may be a different story, but we are dealing with the Player,and Yes Everyone Has The Earned Right to Boo the Player right out of the Stadium……. And if Tex don’t start clutch hitting his duff is next!!!!!
By Philliesuk
July 3, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
Sad. The analysts were wrong. We have a bad team.
Face it, the season ended when Kelly dropped that ball. We would not be in this predicament if that ball stays in the glove. Sorry Kelly, but face the facts.
We can blame much of our disappointments on Jeff Francoeur. Sorry, Jeff. We expected a lot more out of ya.
Hindsight is 20/20. That being said, the Tex trade was the worst in recent Braves history. Two months ago, I never would have said this, but…dump him. Get a couple of quality minor leaguers. Tex will NEVER sign with us in the off-season. Hell, let’s just try to get Elvis back.
This is a disappointing season, but it doesn’t really rank that high up there. I was much more disappointed in 2002, 2003, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, etc. You get the picture. This season pales in comparison.
I scoffed at those who said this team has no heart. I was wrong, unfortunately. There is no heart, at least, not right now.
By JimD
July 3, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Peter
*..get rid of Tommy G, and the other waste of time……………………..
We have a fine NEW rotation with Hudson leading the way……….
Some day we will score Runs………….*
And how would that be different from now?
By JJMB
July 3, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
I think we’re missing the big picture here. Madonna + ARod, helloooooo…..
joebrave, I’m with you on that sack of puke, Kincade. It’s a sad commentary of the Atlanta area that a putrid carpetbagger from philadelphia has a job here. That’s Atlanta now.
I’m pretty sure he lives in Forsyth, though. I’m tempted to post his address.
By brian
July 3, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
if the Braves keep playing like they did this series it will make the Tex question harder - do you trade him and can you get the talent equivalent of a 1st round pick and supplemental pick.
If they trade Tex, and big if, I still see the Angels matching up the best. They would trade Kotchman who would give the Braves a young, servicable first baseman for the near future. The Braves should also be able to get a top pitching prospect as well. Whether they want to or could get Figgins as well would be icing on the cake. Of course if the Yankees get involved especially if the Red Sox are as well, things could get interesting.
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Would major league rules allow sending Stenchy back to high school?
Wish there was a team in Antarctica we could trade Hex to. I’d like to see him liftin’ n’ stretchin’ a pizzed-off polar bear.
By Joebrave
July 3, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
Reality, 1.despite Roger Mcdowell this team ranks near the top in pitching. 2. In spite of Glenn Hubbard, the Braves rank near the bottom in defense… 3.and To the Eventual demise of Terry Pendleton,this team Sucks in the Hutting dept. 4. Bobby Cox has lost his damn mind…. 5.Chase Ugly needs to break his dang leg or something….I really hate that dude,worse than David Wright!!! Roger Mcdowell has got to be directly linked to all these arm injuries,when Leo was here,once in a while,but ever since McDowell came here,BUSTED ELBOWS EVERYWHERE!!!!! in not so many words, Pi$$poor Management from top to bottom,and it starts with Ownership first…Bottom Line reading Scumbags!!!it’s all about the Profit Margin,not about the Championships!!! That’s Reality!!! We as Fans have been fed chicken $hit for Chicken soup!!!!!
By SNIPER-69
July 3, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
This should be good….we’ll all wait for the blog master known as DOB who will spin a web of IFS and MAYBES that will make everything right. Call me when he starts, I don’t want to miss it.
By kirknga
July 3, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Should the Braves win a few in a row, many of those saying it’s over now will be back on the bandwagon.
I’d be careful about trading all the vets away. You people claim to hate the losing now, well how are you going to feel with an even younger team?
Losing is losing. It doesn’t feel better because you have different players…or have you people forgotten the 70’s and 80’s?
By A-ville Ranger
July 3, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
If Frank Wren hasn’t been busy for the past couple of weeks working on trade scenarios regarding Tex, something’s wrong….well something besides the team I mean.This team is not going anywhere except down this season and keeping Mark would be extremely shortsighted.I really don’t know what the market will be but even if they get a couple of pretty good prospects it will be worth it.
By ugadawg
July 3, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
I did not even read half of this bull. Most on here that say Frenchy suck could not hit a 90 mph fastball to save their life much less a breaking ball. The one problem that I see is that his hips are opening up to soon and he is elongating his swing. I can not believe that TP is trying to change the swing of a slumping player and not getting him just back to his basics. We have the worst hitting coach in the majors. Chipper and Mac goes to their dads for advice and JF said in an interview this week that he is going back to his dad and HS coach to try and get HIS swing back.
By Robert S
July 3, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Joebrave - we get it already. Now breathe deeeeeeply…………..
By the way I met Kincade several years ago at a live remote, and he was a complete gentleman. Buck Belue seemed to be the rude one, ironically………
Brian, I’m with you in saying that the Angels would be the best match for Tex. We’d pick up Kotchman (and Figgins would be nice, but they’re not gonna just give him away) and perhaps a minor leaguer or two.
Yet I doubt the Braves will pull the trigger unless the slump reaches massive proportions (we’re only at “epic” now. Give it another week or two before we can downgrade their position).
In fact, all this talk of trading Ohman and Hudson and Frenchy and whatever - it will never happen. The Braves will not gut this team. Tex is likely the only one that might be considered at this point.
By Wayne in Utah
July 3, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
kirkinga
I hate losing. I endured the 80’s as a Braves fan. I would never propose a total overhaul of our team. We have a very nice nucleus.
The way I see it, the Braves can play it 3 ways:
1) Do not quit, and go for it this year. If that is the case, we need another bat, and some luck.
2) Realize it is over for this year, but that next year could be another shot. Try to sign Tex. Try to keep as many of our vets as possible, but use the rest of this year to see exactly what we have (rotation and pen, and give some of our youngsters a longer shot to see if they are ready (BJones, Anderson, Blanco, Schafer, Lillibridge, Prado, etc)
3) Do a serious re-tool, by trading off some players like Hudson, Gonzo, KJ, etc. Let Tex walk. Count on it being a 2-3 year project to get back to the top (coinciding with the emergence of guys like Heyward, Hanson, Medlen, etc)
And YES, there would be some who would sign up for this, and then cry like a 3 year old at K-Mart when we didn’t win!
By Supes
July 3, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave While I think John Kincade was way off with his comments today, I was very surprised he took that stand. His whole deal was “Well, boo the team when they have a 1,2,3 inning, boo the team when they are getting off the field”.
See, John’s logic has no merit there. If the batting order is TEX, MAC and FRANCINE…and they happen to let’s say all strike out”…and I’m booing “them”…the problem is…TEX and MAC don’t deserve to be booed! Only FRANCINE has been worthless and can’t hit his bodyweight for 3 months of the season. So to me, Chipper, TEX, MAC don’t deserve to be booed. It’s not like I can “boo the team” and start by saying…Yeah, this is booing the team excluding so and so.
So John Kincade, if you or one of your staff is reading/monitor this blog, etc, I hope they bring this up to you man. Your whole logic is flawed. Jeff should be booed, it maybe the best thing that will ever happen to him. It will teach him that life is not all people happy, laughning, drinking the Braves fan kool-aid. There are struggles. There are expectations. He should be aware and accept the consequences or get out of dodge when his time is up here. So man up Jeff, take the criticism like a man and John Kincade, I lost a lot of respect for you today sir. I’ve been a loyal 680thefan listener for 8 years now, but John’s take today was completely wrong.
On to the game…I knew Cole Hamels would mow the Braves down tonight and he did. No surprise there. The entire offense with the exceptions of Blanco, Chipper and Mac looked overmatched tonight. Jeff looked incredibly lost as usual. I’m so sick of watching him struggle up here, it’s painful. It’s like putting a “dog” out of it’s misery. Send the man down to AA to work on his game.
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
By Deep Throat
July 3, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
For God’s sake, what the hell does it take to get Stankcoeur sent to the minors or bench for a very prolonged period of time? If it was ANYONE other than Chipper and maybe McCann, he’d already been benched for a long time.
Stankcoeur is an out-making machine. A black hole in the lineup. It’s almost tantamount to having two pitchers batting when he’s playing. When Corky and Prado play, it’s like watching a team from the deadball era.
Pull the plug already! Damn.
By Logic
July 3, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
When will you guys just figure out: Francouer is not a good player and never will be a good player. He is not as bad as he’s playing…of course not. But he will at best be average. What do you think is going to happen? He’s going to become disciplined at the plate? That almost never happened. He’ll put up offensive numbers in good years (OBP/SLG, NOT the stupid BA with RISP, etc that you guys are worried about) that will be around league average. But he PLAYS RIGHT FIELD. He’ll always be below average for a corner outfield. And he always has been. Every year of his career.
By kirknga
July 3, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
*That being said, the Tex trade was the worst in recent Braves history. *
Based on what, that the Braves gave up 5 minor league players who they were not counting on to contribute to the big league club?
Is the trade worse than the trade for Len Barker?
Worse than the Justice trade?
By Why Us
July 3, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Braves should be looking for the best package for TEX.
Why?
Think about it! He has already said he wants to see all offers.
At least 6/7 teams will outbid us & Bor@zz will never take a lesser bid (Tex said his agent will make the contract decision).
Yanks, Red Sox, Angels, Orioles, Mets, Tigers & White Sox are all looking to bolster 1stB & all can/will outbid Braves.
Get something while we can. Draft picks will never pan out, Braves mostly draft HS kids, too long to mature for the picks to be worthwhile.
Especially if we can get a Kotchman back plus others, go for it. Kotch only 25, getting better, very signable by Braves standard. Doesn’t have Tex’s power but still a decent bat. He is also much like Tex with the glove, very GOOD with glove.
DO IT!
By kirknga
July 3, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
Wayne I wonder if anyone remembers the ostrich races?
If they do, then option 3 is off the table. I don’t think Liberty is going to devalue the team by stripping it down, that just doesn’t make financial sense.
I believe the first option is the most likely at this point. The problem with this team isn’t talent so much as mismatched pieces.
Now a big part of that is due to injuries. I know I would have much preferred the starters in this series to have been a healthy Smotlz, Glavine, and/or Hampton.
I would have loved to have seen a healthy Moylan come into that first game rather than Boyer. I would have liked to have had both a healthy Soriano and Gonzo available as well.
Instead we have rookies and young players asked to do roles they aren’t ready to do yet.
Any moves the Braves make then are going to have to include players already performing at the major league level. No prospects..well as few as possible anyway.
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
The Braves are 40-46
The Braves are 1-8 against the Phillies
The Braves are 39 - 38 against the rest of the league.
The Braves trail the Phillies by 7 games.
The Phillies are 16-11 against the NL East.
The Phillies are 8-1 against the Braves.
The Phillies are 8-10 agains the rest of the NL East.
The Phillies lead the Braves by 7 games.
Cole Hamels is 3-0 against the Braves.
The Braves will likely face Cole Hamels 3 more times this season.
If the Braves keep this team together, I expect 79-83 at best.
By Andy K.
July 3, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
LISTEN UP FOLKS…’CAUSE I’M ONLY GUNNA SAY THIS ONCE!!!!! You all call yourselves Braves Fans…Well, it’s time to ACT LIKE ONE! A real fan doesn’t say it’s over, especially before the All-Star Break. A real fan has a never-die attitude. THE BRAVES ARE ONLY SEVEN GAMES OUT. Seven…the Braves have overcome much more than that. Now, Frenchy does have to work some things out, but bashing him WILL NOT aide the situation. And what the (h-e-double-hockey-sticks) is this trade TEX stuff about? If we are winning this division, WE NEED TEX! Heck, we even could use some he who shall not be named for fear of injury, providing he comes back soon. Think about it, it will only take one game to start a turn-around…one game. And then, you have a line-up like this that hopefully gets hot, maybe with the addition of a call-up or even better, a trade by Frank Wren: 1.Gregor Blanco-CF 2.Yunel Escobar-SS 3.Chipper Jones-3B 4.Tex-1B 5.Brian McCann-C 6.Mark Kotsay-CF 7.Kelly Johnson/Martin Prado-2B 8.Frenchy/Infante/Perry-RF 9.Pitcher IT’S DEFINATLEY NOT OVER! PLUS, THE BRAVOS NEED US…IF WE SHOW UP TO GAMES EXPECTING A LOSS, MORALE WILL GET PRETTY LOW at The House That Chipper Built. Geeze, I’ve never seen such a big chunk of Braves Nation get bent outta shape over seven games…calm down, support your team, and things will get better!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
gotta second what kirknga said about the hyperbolic description of the Tex trade as the “worst in Braves history.”
Which of those guys they traded is the one you’re convinced is the real franchise-type player, or even a real difference-maker in the majors? Don’t you at least have to have one or two of them DO something in the majors before you make such a silly statement? No? Oh, well.
yeah, the Braves would be set for years to come if they still had Salty, Elvis Andrus at shortstop, Matt Harrison in the rotation, etc.
The one other kid, the pitcher Perez, is the one who could end up being the one they rue letting go. But until he (or one of the others) gets to the majors and actually produces, then give it a rest with the armchair evaluation of the Tex trade.
Braves did it because they thought he’d be a difference-maker in two playoff runs. He’s produced, but even if he’d produced more it wouldn’t be enough singlehandedly. Braves are beat-up by injuries and done in by that and by a few underperforming guys they were counting on.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Snipper, did I mention I can’t stand you? No, I didn’t? Well, I did now. You bring nothing to the table, my man. Zero. But I’m sure you’ve heard that before, right?
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
So, would anyone like to do a compare and contrast between Jeff Francoeur and Scott Thorman?
By MAV
July 3, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
Joe Brave,
Ownership has done nothing but spend more money on this team since they took over, so how can they be to blame. They don’t strike out or commit errors, players do. And if you don’t like it, DON’T WATCH…IDIOT!
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
Robert, if you think firing Cox will solve all or even most of this team’s problems, you are way too kind, my friend. And delusional.
Unless a new manager could wave a wand and cure all the elbows and backs and shoulders, and say a few magic words to get guys to hit with runners in scoring position, well, a change at the top just isn’t some kind of magic salve that will get this team to the playoffs.
By matlanta
July 3, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
DOB,
i’m gonna be at the tom waits show saturday night as well, i can’t wait. where are your seats? i’m sitting up in the balcony, 2nd section up, center.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
brent a., that’s actually becoming a legit comparison, if you’re talking just about Francoeur’s stats this season and Thor’s major league numbers.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 3, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Your game story contains an inaccuracy that the copy editor definitely should have caught, even with deadline looming:
To get to .500 before the break, the Braves will have to go 6-3 against Houston, the Los Angeles Dodgers, and San Diego.
A 6-3 run would put the Braves at 46-49 at the break. It’s going to take at least an 8-1 run to make .500.
By Jerald Holcombe
July 3, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
stynes
I’ve been a fan of the Braves since they arrived in 1966. I’ve seen them lose a lot of games over the years. I know how you feel, but these Braves aren’t even close to the teams that played in the 80s. Those teams regularly lost 90-100 games with no “light at the end of the tunnel” to speak of. That is, until Bobby Cox was hired as GM and began to build up the minor league system. The current Braves are basically a .500 team. In the last 2 1/2 years, they are 203-207. They are not a playoff type team, and with the exception of Chipper, Smoltz, and Glavine, most, if not the rest of the team hasn’t been to a World Series unless they bought a ticket. I refuse to lose sleep over a .500 team. I watch and hope that they will take that next step. Look at it this way, if they weren’t talented, they would be just like those teams in the 80s. These boys can’t help but win as many as they lose. They will stumble into a lot of the wins they get.
By Bluto Blutarski
July 3, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Andy K,
Reading your bold text, I couldn’t help but giggling. As I read what you said, I could envision the John Belushi (Bluto Blutarski) character in the movie Animal House, making the speech to the frats about not giving up.
Thanks for the laugh. Braves fans need a good one now.
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
I could never learn to like Hex. His aloof attitude is enough to trigger uncontrollable yapping in lab mice! I feel the rumbling of groceries in my gut just thinking about it.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
thanks bring me the head, we’ll fix it
By Greg O.
July 3, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, how about that Hanson scouting report from Kotsay? At least that’s gotta be positive…
By jed
July 3, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
“Braves are beat-up by injuries and done in by that and by a few underperforming guys they were counting on.”
true, that. and as good as the rookie pitchers have been, how long will that last? i see jurrjens holding up, but wouldnt bet much on campillo, morton & reyes. glavine could help, sure. hampton’s a joke. and we still dont have a closer. (i know, lately we havent needed a closer.)
point being, if we made a move for a big bat and maybe a bullpen arm, just how much of a comeback will this team be able to launch? with chipper’s health always a question mark, and no smoltz, i’ve got serious doubts. (and i tend toward optimism as a fan.)
i’m having a hard time imagining this team making a big comeback, and although i definitely am in favor of making a run if you think you’ve POSSIBLY got a chance, i gotta say it seems only reasonable to start hedging your bets at this point with this team.
and if so, fergodsakes yes, get something for tex.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
bring me the head … just trying to keep you on your toes.
thanks, pal. much appreciated.
By SNIPER-69
July 3, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
C’mom O’Brien, Does it realy matter what I brought to the table. I’m a Met fan and a Yankee. I could throw out stat after stat until you’re dizzy and you still would hate me. I’m not gonna kiss your a-s-s like many here on the blog and if it bothers you…..tuff sh—it.
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
DOB:
That is what I meant. Kind of scary, really. Even though Thorman never produced at the big league level, from what I heard, he was at times pretty outstanding in the minors.
But, in the bigs, he looked absolutely lost. No control whatsoever. Swinging for the fences and rarely connecting. The Braves showed a lot of confidence in him, trading LaRoche for a reliever and handing over 1B to Thorman (although, they also signed Craig Wilson, “just in case”).
While Thorman never got the attention Francoeur has received (for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Thorman never showed us much during his time with the big club, while Francoeur, at times, has been absolutely brilliant), he was given, in some respects, almost equal responsibility, in the sense that he was given an everyday job and was expected to hit for power and drive in runs.
Personally, I don’t think this thing with Francoeur will last; but then again, I also figured that Thorman, once allowed to play every day, would come along and start producing. But, as it turned out, he never did, and the Braves platooned him, and then traded over him.
Right now, I just don’t see much difference between ‘07 Thorman and ‘08 Francoeur, and that is kind of scary for the Braves both now, and in the near future.
By Plato
July 3, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
Dave,
Every team has injuries. That is getting to be a tired excuse. By the way, how will a 6-3 record before the All-Star break bring the 40-46 Braves to the .500 mark?
By StingerSplash
July 4, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
Longtime Braves fans - such as myself - have seen some truly wretched Braves teams. This one would appear to have talent in place. Hudson, Jurrjens and Reyes are proven or are proving themselves. Campillo has been lightning in a bottle to date, but I wonder if he continue what he has started (judging by his last start, hmmm, maybe not real long). A lineup with Chipper, Tex, McCann, Escobar and Frenchy should be able to produce runs. And yet … this current streak of play is among the worst of the recent years. Anyone else remember a routine grounder skipping through Jerry Royster’s legs against the Dodgers in LA in 1982, and the 2-19 record that ensued over the next three and a half weeks? And that team won the division. There is hope. The light is dim and flickering, but there is hope. It just better come soon before it is too late. Maybe somebody can get lost on 285 or get stuck in the downtown connector repaving traffic, but something has to happen soon.
By jed
July 4, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
sniper-69, meet joe brave. joe brave, meet sniper-69.
ahhh…this should be fun….
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
I honestly like Frenchy, the person. I sincerely feel sorry for him. He seems like a genuinely great guy.
But, lord have mercy, I’ll GUARANTEE YOU, that Stenchy, the player, couldn’t get a hit off summa them Little League World Series pitchers. They’d mow him down and screw him into the ground. If he were trying to hit air with the bat, he’d be batting damn near .900, and if not for Andruw, he’d be blowing the rest of MLB away, statistically… You want positive, there’s positive.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 4, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
You’re welcome, Dave. I, too, know the heartbreak of being mathematically challenged.
On an unrelated note, have you ever heard Randy Newman’s “Shame,” off his 1999 album “Bad Love”? An inspired, classic cut. Great album, too. You couldn’t post the lyrics on a family blog, though.
This most unprolific of music genuises finally has a new album coming out in August. I can’t wait.
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
DOB, if you can fix a freezer burnt head, I know a legend you should contact.
By The Research Says
July 4, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
The research reveals that bloggers who use the number 69 in their blog moniker have probably never 69’d.
The research also reveals that bloggers who use the number 69 in their moniker do so because they have a ton of delusional ifs and maybes running through their heads about someday 69ing.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Why in the Hell is Jeff getting so much grief??? It’s not like this is a dynasty. This team in Milwaukee/Atlanta since 1958 has won ONE!!!!!! World Series and you guys are acting like you have some sort of birthright??? This team represents the metropolis of Atlanta whose 4 pro sports teams have combined to win ONE Championship.
Leave Jeff alone. You had 3 Hall of Fame pitchers on the same staff in their prime and it didn’t matter. You had dominating talent in a garbage division guaranteeing a playoff berth for YEARS and it didn’t matter.
Do what David is doing tomorrow—Get a Life!! Quit with this collection of flotsam and live vicariously—if you must—through something more productive.
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this
Why the Hell do Mets-loving, disgusting, nasal-talking, Yankees, come here in the first damn place!? Ain’t Y’all got no blogs up there? I don’t have a racist bone in my body, but a Yankeeist I am and shall forever be! The Muts suck and Yankees suck!
By kirknga
July 4, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
I still find it fascinating how quickly people throw players under the bus. Every player trashed was once praised here; from Hampton, to Acosta, to Frenchie. Now there is so type of selective amnesia going on.
How can those of you call for the Braves to pick up more prospects when you don’t support the one you got?
Why is losing any different with another group of younger players?
By jed
July 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
research says
“bloggers who use the number 69 in their blog moniker have probably never 69’d.”
oh man..aint that the truth!
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
One thing Stenchy has going for him; it’s statistically impossible for his average to drop to .000. Call me Mr. Positive.
By jed
July 4, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
joe brave, could you give sniper69 his ear back? thank you. hey…how bout the 2 of you meet a new friend? lou vales, this is joe brave and sniper69. sniper gets a lot of hot sex, as you can tell by that prodigious stomach of his and the tape there on his glasses. fellas, i’d like you to meet lou vales….
By Fortunate Son
July 4, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Happy Birthday America! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
Sorry ‘bout that. Ain’t got much to cheer for. So I cheer for sweet ole Americay.
When they set the fireworks off, will the cow get spooked? I wouldn’t sit out in left field when those fireworks go off. Call me crazy but something tells me that fat cows sits on a wall, has a great fall, and all the chick-fil-a chickens won’t be able to put that fat cow back together again.
3-6 at home since they put that fat ba$tard up on the roof.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
I despise the Mets and Yankees, but I can at least understand the Yankees’ arrogance. They have all those WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP banners flying over their despicable yard, while the braves fly their silly 14 Division banners across the facade(appropriate word) and act like it means something. Well, It Does Mean Something. you had 14!!!!!!!!! straight chances to win as many World Series as the Florida Marlins and you couldn’t do it.
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 4, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
*I remember the Ostrich Races at Old Atlanta Fulton County Stadium, the $3 upper deck outfield seats, and the $1.50 beer and 1,145 in the stands unless the Big Red Machine or Dodgers were in town. * Those days the popular teams would often have more fans than the Braves did. Also went to a Cubs-Braves game in ‘89 at the Old Stadium where the Cubs fans outnumbered Braves fan 2-1 and they actually let Harry Carey sing Take Me Out to the Ballgame on the Road. No lie,it was around July 4th and was a sellout crowd. Never will forget how much I loved those teams, many of whom lost 100 games and finished last in the old National League West. I really miss playing the Dodgers, Giants, and Cubs more and really hate the new schedule with having the see the Eastern teams 18 times. Limit interleague play to 6 games a year, 3 home and 3 away, go back to a balanced schedule, and I’ve even done a 180 on the DH. I used to hate it, but I think the National League should adopt it so both leagues can play under the same rules. Bobby’s too stupid to manage the bullpen and his bench so this would cut down on some of his idiotic mistakes.
By David O'Brien
July 4, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Plato, I wasn’t at all making excuses, so don’t even begin trying to twist my words. I was real clear — unless someone can wave a wand to fix all the elbows and shoulders and backs, etc., on this team, or get guys to hit with runners in scoring position, said team ain’t going to the playoffs. How is that making an excuse? Stating facts, man. Stating facts.
And as for the 6-3 thing, I have no idea what you are talking about? (if you’re gonna play the gotcha game, at least don’t be late for the first pitch, Plato.)
By Fortunate Son
July 4, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
SCREWY LOUIE VALES Congrats. You have won the blog Triple Crown tonight. You are a gasbag, a windbag and a douchebag. Also, your and idiot.
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 4, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
If Lou Vales had one more “s” in his name, you could spell “a*”
By Thomas
July 4, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
Bill Shanks of The Braves Show is reporting the Braves have sent Jeff Francoeur to AA and will recall Jason Perry to Atlanta.
By Objective Observer
July 4, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Picture this — your boss decides to set up a blog where employees and customers can anonymously post comments on your job performance behind the privacy shield of a user name. And, even better, your family and friends get to read the nasty, personal comments made by others about you. Sweet. That is what the vast majority of bloggers are doing to Jeff F and other players right now. And the fact that you get the right to boo a player because you bought tickets? Some one — customers, shareholders, etc. — pay your salary. So do they get the right to come boo you are having a bad year?
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
Dear Jed, Next Wednesday, go to computer at 3:05 PM and type in espn1400.com and then hit “Listen Live”—the ESPN affiliate for Spartanburg/Greenville—You will be able to hear me use my acerbic wit and rapier sarcasm to rip the Braves from 3:05-6:00. They actually let your favorite blogger co-host every Wednesday. And NOW since you have made those insensitive and highly false comments about my predelictions, I/m going after the Bravos with a new found intensity.
Might actually try to find a statistician to help commute the odds of having 14 chances to win a World Series—and winning ONE!!!!! Now we will have to take into account that this may be the largest collection of choke artists ever assembled for such a long period of time—But What The Heck!!!
By Winnie the Pooh
July 4, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
This clubhouse is getting tough. Eeyore is so depressing to be around, he’s a cancer in the clubhouse. Tigger is nuts and is always bouncing off the walls. Piglet is useless. Christopher Robbins is a little light in the loafers. And someone keeps stealing my honey. I need a new team.
By double deuce
July 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
The only thing wrong with Jeff Francouer is that the Braves have marketed him in order to sell their product. Maybe even he bought into it for awhile, but at some point the weight of having to be annointed as the next star of the organization has to sit heavy on his shoulders and when you start to struggle it gets magnified, and finally blown all out of proportion.
All Jeff needs is to stop trying to be something he isn’t and get back to basics. He’s hit before and he’ll hit again. He is a great athlete and athlete’s don’t suddenly forget the game. It’s just a shame that he can’t have an extended slump without all of Atlanta ready to send him packing.
One more thought. Why would we have to send him to Chambliss to fix his swing when we have TP? I’ll bet McCann and Chipper don’t ask TP for help. They ask their dad. That might say something right there.
By Cooper
July 4, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this
I heard Frenchy was sent to AA after the game and Jason Perry is replacing him in ATL this weekend.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
Fortunate Son, “Also,your and idiot”—Now I’m going to assume that use of the English language would not be acceptable even in Aintry.
By Mike Hampton’s Offshore Bank Account, Be rest assured he will be brought up, and not even by me. The Braves afficianados up here despise him.
By KC
July 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
Well, I was in attendance at the Ted tonight and…
going to that game was like paying money to get kicked in the crotch.
Very pleasant.
Wayne In Utah: Why in the world would we consider trading Hudson?? He still has a number of good years ahead of him (in all likelihood), and the Braves could likely work out an extension with him when his current contract nears an end.
Top-of-the-rotation starters are about the hardest thing in the world to come by. And the Braves goal should be to build the fiercest rotation they possibly can. There’s NO way you trade Hudson.
Next year, we’ll have Hudson, Jurrjens, Reyes, and some combination of a few different starting options. However they configure it, it should be a very good rotation.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Dear Objective Observer, If MLB players had not said for years that they are “Entertainers” and thus deserving of huge salaries, I doubt very much that you would have such hostile reactions. BUT when you have some guys who couldn’t find way out of a phone booth, without a tour guide, making 70 times what the preeminent cancer research specialist in the World makes—Well, Yes!!! They might be booed, BECAUSE when ENTERTAINERS perform badly, throughout recorded history the audience has let them know about it. And for 99.99999percent of Americans—People don’t pay to come to their work places and be ENTERTAINED.
PLEASE!! Stop that silly argument.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Dear Objective Observer, If MLB players had not said for years that they are “Entertainers” and thus deserving of huge salaries, I doubt very much that you would have such hostile reactions. BUT when you have some guys who couldn’t find way out of a phone booth, without a tour guide, making 70 times what the preeminent cancer research specialist in the World makes—Well, Yes!!! They might be booed, BECAUSE when ENTERTAINERS perform badly, throughout recorded history the audience has let them know about it. And for 99.99999percent of Americans—People don’t pay to come to their work places and be ENTERTAINED.
PLEASE!! Stop that silly argument.
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
T-Ball might not be too far back for Stenchy to be sent. He’s lucky as all Hell they spared him the humiliation of double-extended spring training. Ole Hex could use alittle’a’that too. Course he’s just finished the regular extended spring training, so he’d prolly enjoy a break first.
By Fortunate Son
July 4, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Fortunate Son, “Also,your and idiot”—Now I’m going to assume that use of the English language would not be acceptable even in Aintry.
Screwy Louie Vales, do you pay to be on that show in Podunk or do they pay you? I’m guessing you pay them. And why would someone who does not understand why people obsess over sports pay for the right to be a mere little co-host on a sports talk radio show himself?
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 4, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this
DOB, Put down the cheese dogs and try to confirm or deny if Bill Shanks rumour is true, you got Smoltzie’s number, text him, he’ll know if this really is happening, because he’s the next manager of your Atlanta Braves (I hope)
By Shamus Thacker
July 4, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
Is there a penalty if Stenchy whiffs three times on a t-shot? Bet Smoltzie knows…
By brent a.
July 4, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
Ah, Lou Vales … Proving that you are a newbie. Being a newbie is fine; however, being a newbie and coming in with guns a blazing is poor manners.
Here’s a tip, anytime you see such a blatant misuse of grammar on a message board, you might be best to just leave it alone. It might just be intentional.
Anyway, Francouer to the minors, only to be replaced by the Tyler Perry show. Clearly, the city of Atlanta wants to get maximum exposure for its poster boys.
So, Glavine and Smoltz on the DL, and Francouer in Mississippi.
Chipper better stay healthy or the town will need a complete make-over.
Eat mor chikin, everybody!
By Mitchell
July 4, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
Mad love for DOB on droppin’ some Wilco logic on ya’ll. Am I the only Braves fan who’s ever heard of Wilco? I don’t count O’Brien cause he’s obviously not a Braves fan, all he ever wants to do is talk trash about Francoeur. Just kidding.
Hey Braves fans, raise your hand if you still think they can hang in there and win the division… I can’t hear you. Oh, right. I also can’t see you so either way that doesn’t so much work.
We can pull out of this, we just gotta start winning games and get back to 500. Screw the Phillies, they’re not better than us. We’re in a non-Phillies related slump. We’d be losing to the Nationals if we played like this.
We will win again as God as my witness. Oh no, that’s just a homeless dude.
By Plato
July 4, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Not trying to play gotcha.
Your original online story stated that the Braves needed to go 6-3 before the All-Star break to reach the .500 mark and I asked how that was possible when they were 40-46.
Hard to see how you had “no idea” what I was talking about there since another poster mentioned it and you thanked him for it.
But as someone much more acerbic than me—a New Yorker—observed, if you don’t kiss your butt…..
By Otis Nixon's Bodyguard
July 4, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
Okay, I’m still looking for a job.
Can someone help me get hold of Frenchy, and find out if he needs protection in Mississippi?
By KC
July 4, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
double deuce: “The only thing wrong with Jeff Francouer is that the Braves have marketed him in order to sell their product.”
Did the Braves force him to accept the Delta Airlines endorsement too??
He also declined to sign a long-term contract extension as McCann did… so, do you suppose contract status could be weighing on his mind as well?
This slump all started amidst an effort on his part to hit for more power. Chipper made a comment in the spring that likened frenchy’s 08’ approach at the plate to that of Andruw Jones. Do you suppose Frenchy’s focus on trying to hit more homeruns might have altered his swing some (whether consciously or subconsciously)?
Sorry man… I don’t think the Braves marketing department is responsible for Frenchy’s struggles.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
Fortunate Son, Give a listen and check out the reaction and you tell me afterwards if you think I pay them. Might even make you a fan—No, Because as you know I Hate FANS of anything because word is derived from FANATIC, and you know what to think of BLINDLY LOYAL INDIVIDUALS Who Check Their Intellect At The Gate In Devotion To A Person Or Idea—-Even sounds ugly!! Are you a big Braves’ FANatic??
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART,
you have always been, in my opinion the most intelligent guy on this thread.
your posts are well thought and have gravity.
we have had our disagreements.
finally time to somewhat fess up.
i said chuck n duck would not make it. you said i was wrong.
i said two years ago this would eventully happen to francoeur.
too much motion in that swing. he used to be lunger that hit off his front foot.
now his hands drop when he strides.
it is really hard to square up a ball when you have all that vertical movement.
THIS IS NOT A SLUMP.
this is what he is.
not being personal, heck i wish the braves had ten more guys that wanted to win like he does.
he just does not have it. guys that are 6’3 usually have power to the opposite field. he never has ever shown it.
i dont think he will make it back as a front line outfielder.
the inability to recognize a strike with subpar mechanics will eventually make him a high school coach.
By rupert
July 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
sending frenchy down after that series would send some waves through the lockeroom, maybe make some guys wake the f*** up
By Objective Observer
July 4, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
Lou Vales
My comment was neither silly nor hostile. I ask you - how would you feel about me blogging about your job performance? I don’t begrudge my fellow workers who received their MBA while I chose not to, yet they get paid proportionally much more because of their skills..nor do I begrudge those who are athetically talented. Besides, just because some one is an ENTERTAINER does that mean we get to abuse them? Seriously?? Does it make them less human? Please stop your mean-spirited arguments!
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
yo LOU,
try a paragraph sometime.
it would at least make your dribble somewhat easier to read.
DOB, i was at the ted theme park tonight.
kind of a weak crowd for a july 3rd.
By Mitchell
July 4, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, how’s about a little John Winston Lennon:
“I was dreaming of the past And my heart was beating fast I began to lose control I began to lose control”
“Soooo long ago Was it a dream Was it just a dream
I know Yes I know Seemed so very real Seemed so real to me”
and finally, just a song title:
“I Don’t Want to Face It”
As for Wilco and me, it hasn’t gotten any better than Summerteeth. That’s just me.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
As an ardent follower(Note—Not a FANatic) of the Marlins when Jeff starts coaching high school, can he please take Hermida with him??
By John B.
July 4, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Francoeur to AA Mississippi per Bill Shanks.
(http://braves.scout.com/2/766987.html)
By Mike Hampton's Office Bank Account
July 4, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this
Otis Nixon’s Bodyguard
This is 2008, Black men can’t be bodyguards in Mississippi yet.
By Not So Objective Observer
July 4, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
Lou Vales, Have you ever played sports of an kind at any level? Just curious.
By Robert
July 4, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
“Unless a new manager could wave a wand and cure all the elbows and backs and shoulders, and say a few magic words to get guys to hit with runners in scoring position, well, a change at the top just isn’t some kind of magic salve that will get this team to the playoffs.”
DOB - you are correct. But
Just changing the manager wont cure ail that ails this franchise. But it is the first step that they need to make. Without that change, NOTHING else they do will be productive
This team wont make the playoffs. Nothing can change that. But if we keep Cox, then next year’s team wont accomplih jack either. And that CAN be changed.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
Dear Objective Observer, As someone who was fortunate enough to be able to retire at 52 because of the period from 92-2000, I have a lot of empathy for people who have or might lose their homes and/or their retirement savings and/or jobs in thisa economy. I’m betting that 99.999998 percent of the Americans who don’t make up the 3 percent that own 90percent of the wealth WOULD GLADLY take the “abuse” that comes with being able to perform badly at a job and still have been able in a VERY short period of time make enough money that their unborn grandchildren will never have to work. Why don’t you ask some of the over 50 crowd with no health insurance, diminished savings, no long term care insurance and inadequate life insurance if for sake of their family they would take being booed for 6 months to set family up for life. I think I know the answer—and so do you.
By Thomas
July 4, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this
First on The Braves Show: Francoeur to AA
Bill Shanks TheBravesShow.com Jul 4, 2008
The Braves Show.com has learned the Atlanta Braves have sent struggling outfielder Jeff Francoeur to Double-A Mississippi. Richmond outfielder Jason Perry will be called up to the big leagues Friday.
Francoeur has been in a horrible slump for most of the season. The Braves are sending him to work with Mississippi Manager Phillip Wellman, who has worked well with Francoeur in the past and is well respected in the organization as a solid hitting instructor.
Francoeur was 0-4 Thursday to lower his season average to .234. He has eight home runs and 41 RBI in 334 at bats. Since June 1st Francoeur has hit only .193 (22-114) with two home runs and eight RBI. He’s hit only .098 in his last twelve games.
The demotion comes almost three years to the day when Francoeur was first brought up to the major leagues. His disappointing season has practically been symbolic of the entire year for the Braves’ team.
Francoeur made great improvements from the 2006 season to 2007, improving his batting average 33 points (to .293) and his OBP 45 points (to .338). While the power decreased (from 29 in 2006 to 19 in 2007), Francoeur still looked like a better hitter and had more quality plate appearances last season.
But this season has been a struggle. At the end of April Francoeur’s average was at .273 through the first 27 games, but he had only three home runs (2 in one game in Washington on April 12th). Then since May 1st Francoeur has just been in a horrible funk, hitting only .214 (48-224) with five home runs and 22 RBI.
Perry was signed by the Braves in mid-April and assigned to the Double-A team in Mississippi. Perry is a left-handed hitter who went to Jonesboro High School, south of Atlanta, and also attended Georgia Tech. He was originally drafted by the Toronto Blue Jays in the sixth round of the 2002 draft. A year later Perry was traded to Oakland completing a trade in which the Athletics sent outfielder John-Ford Griffin to Toronto. Oakland then traded him to the Tigers’ organization last August for Jack Hannahan.
Perry has had some decent seasons in the minor leagues, but this will be his first shot in the majors. He played in 38 games for Mississippi and hit .314 with 13 home runs and 41 RBI in 137 at bats. Perry was then promoted to Triple-A Richmond and has hit .302 with five home runs and 14 RBI in 106 at bats. Overall this season, Perry has hit .309 with 18 home runs and 55 RBI in 243 at bats, with a .412 on base percentage.
The Braves will start Friday’s series against Houston with a 40-46 record, seven games out of first place in the National League East.
Bill Shanks hosts The Atlanta Baseball Show on 680 the Fan in Atlanta and The Bill Shanks Show on SportsRadio 105.5 the Fan in Macon. He is the author of Scout’s Honor: The Bravest Way To Build A Winning Team, a look inside the Braves‘ traditional scouting and player development philosophies. You can email Bill at thebravesshow@email.com.
By KC
July 4, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this
uga-brave: “THIS IS NOT A SLUMP. this is what he is.”*
So… the 48 homers and 208 RBI he’s produced over the past 2 seasons (while being one of the teams best clutch hitters in 06 and 07) was just a fluke??
I just looked (at random) at the careers of about a dozen excellent hitters, and here are just a few things I noticed…
Mark McGwire hit .201with 22 homers (terrible by his standards) in 1991… but followed that up with a 42 homer, 104 RBI season.
Barry Bonds, in his 3rd full season, hit .248, with only 19 homers.
Mike Schmidt had a season (in the early prime of his career) in which he hit .251, with only 21 homers (about half of his total in previous and subsequent seasons).
It is FAR from unprecedented for a good hitter to have an awful season. It does happen from time to time. It sometimes happens that good hitters have season-long slumps, but they quite frequently come back very strong the next season.
You’re using a lousy 3 months to dismiss what he’s done over the previous 2-1/2 seasons? That just doesn’t hold water for me.
I think he’s in a season-long slump, and we shouldn’t hold our breath this year waiting for him to snap out of it. But my bet is that he’ll have a very good 2009 season.
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 4, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe they finally did the right thing
By KC
July 4, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
Sending him down was the right thing to do. I think he’ll work it out, and he’ll have a good 2009 season for ATL.
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
Waiting for inevitable—“Did you ever play sports?”—Yes, at the same high school level as did most of that oft mentioned 99.9 percent of all Americans.
You know I didn’t start this crap. Rather it was the Glavines and Scott Borases of the World with their comparison of the work of Independent Contractors(baseball Players) to working class people in America—unionized or non-unionized. AND when you start saying you are entitled to EXHORBITANT salaries because It is a BUSINESS—Well, If a BUSINESS Entity does not perform well they go under, stock tanks or something financially bad happens I haven’t thought of.
ONLY entity in this country—maybe the World—that guarantees pay even after demonstrable Non-Performance is pro sports. No Mike Hampton like deals at Merrill Lynch or Citigroup—even if CEO”s mess up they are gone and Shareholders(like FANs) actually show up at meetings to BOO!! So Stop with the garbage and trying to excuse these guys from any responsibility. I give Frenchy credit for not having a pulled muscle and going out there which far supercedes the effort of some individuals.
By Not So Objective Observer
July 4, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this
Lou Vales - That explains your ability to be on this blog non-stop. I should have guessed that you are retired. Personally, I am nearing 50 and because of the state of the economy, I will clearly need to work until I am 70 plus. So your holier than thou attitude doesn’t really work on me. I work very, very hard and I have NEVER EVER felt compelled to boo any one - no matter what they do for a living. I am just not that bitter. So, now that Jeff has been sent down to AA, you must be thrilled. And, quite frankly, I don’t understand your mean spirited attitude towards others. I am sincerely shaking my head. Do you have conception that these players you so readily berate and abuse are actual people with family and friends?
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
well actually it is time to blame terry mc jerk.
terry mc jerk said we had millions to spend.
well i have had the the honor of meeting mr. terry several times. he is a lackey.
two corporate ownerships have left him in charge. he is in that position because of default.
neither ownership wants to disturb this thing.
great gig if you can get it, and he has it.
he has a GREAT PARKING SPACE, darws a great salary, and all he has to do is not srew things up.
the heck with winning, got to pay that LOVETT tuition.
the DUDE HAS the easiest job in baseball.
why would he ever make waves.
THIS IS YOUR PRESIDENT OF OPPERATIONS.
TERRY Mc JERK.
he would get down on his knees and tell LIBERTY MEDIA that everything is fine.
hey, i dont blame him he has ZERO accountability. he has fall guys when push comes to shove.
By Thomas
July 4, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
Francoeurs just been horrible. I’m glad they sent him down. I’m not sure why they sent him to AA. Maybe since he had never been to AAA he didn’t want to go there. He’s not this bad. They’ve got to help him somehow. Hopefully this will help. This lineup is horrible right now. Not sure if Jason Perry will help. He sounds like a career minor leaguer.
By Wayne in Utah
July 4, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
KC Personally, I think the Braves should definitely keep Hudson. I was just reviewing one of three possible scenarios for the Bravos, and one would be to sell off anything of value to totally rebuild. I would choose the 2nd choice I mentioned.
Also, our friend uga has been a Francoeur basher from way back. I personally think he is wrong, and that Frenchy will come back strong.
Also, what’s with the man-love thing uga as with Braveheart??? Dude, that ain’t healthy!
:-)
Someone earlier commented on the grammatics of “your and idiot”. Obviously, a rookie to the blog….
I just spent the last hours looking through all the minor leagues of our Braves. Myrtle Beach must be a pitchers haven. We have several guys with real good numbers on that team.
What is the story on these players: Brandon Hicks, Reid Gorecki, Jason Perry and Jon Owings (brother to the D-Backs pitcher Micah). I heard Owings had a gun for an arm, and it seems Gorecki has missed some time with injuries in previous years. Perry is tearing it up in Richmond. Would Hicks be a third base candidate?? Pope is a whiz bang fielder, but I don’t know if he will hit enough to make it to the show.
By KC
July 4, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
Well, with that loss tonight… the Braves are officially on the outside, looking in. It doesn’t look good right now.
Having said that, it is certainly far from impossible for the Braves to climb back in this thing. Here is what would have to happen:
1 - The lineup (finally on the mend) must get it going. The pieces are there… with 3 BIG bats (Chipper, Tex, McCann), and 3 other solid hitters (Escobar, KJ, Kotsay)… there pieces there to score plenty of runs to win. They have to get this thing firing on all cylinders (or at least most of them) very, very soon.
2 - Starting pitching must be strong. This series was a very forgettable one for the Braves rotation. But I think morton and Campillo will be fine… and surely no one has lost any confidence in Jurrjens. The rotation should also be getting a boost (yes, I’m going there) from Mike Hampton.
3 - We must get outside help. We need a bat to replace Frenchy’s. And we need a couple of quality middle-relievers. But it is likely that those pieces will ONLY be added if these Braves can inspire a little bit of confidence by trimming the deficit back to 3-5 games over the next few weeks (certainly possible, but only if they play well, of course).
Many a team have made runs to overcome 7 game deficits (or larger) at the half-way point of the season. It’s doable… but only if they get it together very, very soon.
I know, I know… let me save some of you the trouble of the “face it man, it’s over” posts. I’m well aware that this is the position a number of people in this blog hold. And I will certainly concede that it doesn’t look likely at this point. Just saying… it’s possible (and it certainly is).
By nolie
July 4, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
he reason for this was probably the fact that jeff’s AVG with RISP was pretty high, especially with two outs. which most people interpreted as jeff being clutch. thats why people rejected your idea that his stats were mostly due to playing everyday in a good lineup.
if you look at his situational stats from 2006 and 2007, he, is becomes a better hitter the more pressure is applied. look at his 2008 stats, and the opposite happens. its just weird.DAP
yes I know what they were thinking, but as I said then its not gonna keep up. And its not really weird now. No player hits that much better in situational hitting than in regular hitting over his career. As Quack was talking about the other day, regression to the mean practically guarantees that eventually he will come down to earth and hit much closer to his normal level during RISP at bats and that is what is happening. No way was it going to stay like that. Just does not happen.
By Chop Chop
July 4, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this
Well, best of luck to Francoeur down in Mississippi. The Braves have to give him as long as he needs. The team is 7 back in the division and 8.5 back in the wild-card. No reason to rush him back.
By Wayne in Utah
July 4, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this
Good luck to both Francoeur and Perry! I hope BC throws Perry into the starting lineup tomorrow. Let’s see what the young man has….
By Not So Objective Observer
July 4, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I don’t think 99.99% of Americans played sports in high school. And yes, it is a relevant question. It goes to the the nature of your blog entries.. Seems like you are super bitter about something.
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this
KC,
my friend i think you are one of the best braves fans, i really do.
you are loyal, and so am I.
but you also said in the off season we would hit 200 homeruns.
as far as his other numbers he played every stinking day.
the cardinals have a ex pitcher that has 17 dingers, ryan braun is A all star in his second season. cory HART who nobody on this thread ever heard of has been better.
KC, he has always had .760 or so .ops that is way below averave for a rightfielder.
the only reason he has stuck is because he is local.
FRAME me this, have we been in THE PLAYOFFS since he showed up as our everyday right fielder for a entire season?
14 in a row, and thud.
By double deuce
July 4, 2008 2:14 AM | Link to this
KC What athlete says no to endorsements sent their way? That’s the business part and I’m sure it was his agent who landed that and any other deals he gets. That has nothing to do with being annointed”The Chosen One”. Did he annoint himself? The Braves media created the title to help promote Jeff as the next big thing, as do many sports franchises with their athletes. He is a 24 year old ballplayer who has done nothing to earn that title except have one good part of a major league season in his first year and hasn’t exactly set the world on fire since. My point is that the hype put him in a spotlight that he can’t live up to and its ruining him. He won’t be the first to not be able to live up to the hype but it won’t stop media types from pinning such labels on other athletes as they churn thru the system. (JD Drew comes to mind).
Maybe the best thing for him would be to get out of Atlanta and in the end that may be the only thing that will allow him to mature into whatever type player he becomes. Play someplace where he’s not expected to walk on water. One thing is for sure. Put him on the trade wire and see how valuable the rest of GM ‘s think he is, slump or no slump.
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this
wayne,
just respect his posts. if you want to be a, well heck i always liked you, moron about it pony up.
you have been around for a while, you read the posts.
i just think he is the only guy worth reading ALL THE TIME, besides DOB.
By KC
July 4, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this
uga-brave: “FRAME me this, have we been in THE PLAYOFFS since he showed up as our everyday right fielder for a entire season?”
No, you’re absolutely right. Missing the playoffs the last couple years was Francoeur’s fault.
I’ve been very disappointed in his inability to take a turn in the starting rotation last year, or a spot in the bullpen the year before. Lousy bum.
By BravesLover
July 4, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
I don’t give a crap about marketing a slumping kid. I want to win and get to the playoffs. If we have a better chance witout him then so be it. I don’t care if he hits two homeruns in the next two games it will not change the fact that he’s lost at the plate. Any team or company in the world trains its employees. The major leagues is not the place for ojt. Go down, Jeff, get your stroke working consistently for average and power then come back up in Sept. or spring training. The Braves and your fans will still be here. Give us something to cheer about for you. Until then…boooooooooo.
By nolie
July 4, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
In the past he’s hit over .300 with RISP and has averaged about 1.4 RBIs per hit with RISP. If he had hit like he usually does with RISP, he would likely have 10 to 13 extra hits and an extra 14 to 18 RBIs.Braveheart
This kinda surprises me from you BH. there is no way that Jeff was going to continue hitting that much better in RISP than he does normally. The numbers were bound to come down and they are now doing so.
By jed
July 4, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this
we got any definite confirmation on the francouer to AA story? people post junk on the blog all the time.
By jed
July 4, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this
we got any definite confirmation on the francouer to AA story? people post junk on the blog all the time.
By nolie
July 4, 2008 2:47 AM | Link to this
One of the things that all us fans tend to forget about baseball is these guys are standing up there facing 90-100 mph lasers that carry the potential to be deadly on every pitch. After getting his face rearranged twice the dreaded ‘fear’ may have crept into The Chosen One’s psyche. Hopefully that’s not the case but if it has…then he’s done and it’s too bad for him and his family that he didn’t sign the long term contract when he had the chance.LADawg
could just be, I hope not
By Why Us
July 4, 2008 2:53 AM | Link to this
JED
The story is on foxsports.com on the Braves team page.
Look for the headline First On the Braves Show: Francouer To AA
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 2:53 AM | Link to this
kc,
really go read the numbers, facts are facts.
we have not made the playoffs since he has been starting.
seven other rightfielders have. he is austin kearns, the sooner you get it the better off.
By rupert
July 4, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this
from mississippi thy came, from mississippi thy shall return
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this
KC,
if you cant see our outfield is costing us games, you are somewhat blind.
i repect your posts. i love your fervor, i really do. you are optismistic, good for you.
in the real world however, our sub par outfield will not outproduce PAT THE BAT in the dinger department.
that is disgusting. you are witness to the worst offensive outfield in 30 years.
By antwane
July 4, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this
Jed/Research
I want you to know that Sniper69 can 69 just fine.
trust me I know from experience if you know what i mean.
Those Mets & their fans are just wonderful at sucking both on the field and up close & personal
By Why Us
July 4, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this
uga-brave we have not made the playoffs since he has been starting.
HUH?????
He’s been pretty much starting since he came up.
Why does MLB list playoff stats for him then?
2005 playoffs 4 games (that’s all the Braves played—he started each of them) 17 ab 4 hits 1 2b 1 3b 1 rbi obp-.350 slg-.412 ops-.712 avg-.235
Certainly not backing him, think it’s right that he goes down. hope he finds it there.
But, he has been to the playoffs.
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 3:17 AM | Link to this
jed,
you asked me before if i disliked #7.
further from the truth. i always disliked the media attention that he seemed to enjoy.
it works both ways ways, i just alwayws disliked him being the first quote.
win a championship, then run your mouth.
it was overkill for a player that has a career .740 .ops.
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this
why us,
that was his first call up.
he did not start the year here. since he has been our so called starter.
NO PLAYOFFS.
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 3:44 AM | Link to this
What do y’all (or anyone else here) think?Random
I think it was all in how you looked at it. His season long numbers were just fine, I was referring to the two or three weeks prior to when we were talking and even Chipper admitted in a story that he was at that time trying more for a hit than to hit with power and wanted to get back to a little more pop.
It wasn’t really a criticism of Chipper anyway, I would probably have been doing the same thing in his situation and he was getting on base at a great rate, it wasn’t his fault that following hitters weren’t driving him in as much as they could have.
I believe I was comparing extra-base hit to hits though at the time not to at bats. Perhaps we all were right in our own perspectives.
By BA
July 4, 2008 3:57 AM | Link to this
Hey whyus, I didn’t see anything like that on foxsports.com. If that is true, why wouldn’t DOB be the first to know? I’m going to check again, hopefully you’re not just messing around
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 3:59 AM | Link to this
I think they should explore a trade of Hudson and B Jones for a Holliday trade. Then lock Holliday long term. He hits for power and average plus doesn’t start slow. Those 2 moves would actually make this team stronger. Along with younger.*Arkansas
I think its been discussed here a good bit the Holliday is a Coors hitter, his stats away from there are not good enough to be paying him the kind of money that he will be getting. I certainly hope that they don’t that.
By uga-brave
July 4, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this
OH BY THE WAY,
been a while since the braves have lead a game?
been about at least, say 40 or so innings.
good stuff for a playoff contender, KC.
on to dairy queen. load the truck up, bannana splits for everyone.
yeah even our golden boy gets a dipped cone. dont tell the manager he has .670 ops.
all those one run losses could not be his fault. lean into one stein, that is your best chance.
By BA
July 4, 2008 4:06 AM | Link to this
I found it whyus. Hard to believe Shanks got something before DOB. Perry has certainly earned a shot this year, and I’d bet money he starts tomorrow. Kind of like Pendleton gave up on Frenchy, eh? Or they gave up on Pendleton, depending on how you look at it.
By CoolPapaSweets
July 4, 2008 4:10 AM | Link to this
Here is the link to Frenchy getting sent down, FWIW:
http://braves.scout.com/2/766987.html
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 4:22 AM | Link to this
since when did .500 baseball become acceptable in Atlanta???*DonC8
gimme a break, for most of the years in Atlanta .500 ball would be considered just fine. Sheeeesh!
By Aaron
July 4, 2008 4:29 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox from 1990 - 1999: 8 Division titles, 5 NL Pennants & 1 World Championship. “That’s an excellent job!” Bobby Cox from 2000 - 2007: 6 Division titles, 0 NL Pennants, 0 World Championships, 5 first round exits and no playoff appearances in the last 2 seasons. “Not so excellent!” Bobby, you’ve been great! But it’s time to do Atlanta a favor and retire. Because it’s obvious the Braves will never fire you! And you’re not getting the job done anymore!
By BA
July 4, 2008 4:32 AM | Link to this
Anybody catch n8 the hate’s 6:55pm post? What a loser. I guess he was acting as some sort of blog den mother? “Try and keep up”? what a pompous jerk. And kids, please stop playing with Lou Vales. It’s been the same three or four irrelevant points for about a week straight. Lou, here’s a tip: If your freakin’ SIXTY years old, being on some obscure radio station that NO ONE listens too is hardly an impressive feat. Certainly not impressive enough to bring up every day for a week straight as some sort of validation for your incoherent babblings. Maybe quit wasting time here and actually GO to some of your beloved Marlin’s games (if you are lucky you could go on “Dan Uggla baby doll night”)-oh yeah, you people can’t be bothered to come out down there.
By Teddy ballgame's frozen head
July 4, 2008 4:38 AM | Link to this
Shamus Thacker, when they reattach me, I’m going to fly a fighter jet into your..
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 4:40 AM | Link to this
Yeah that .177 AVG. through 75 games had nothing to do with him getting sent down either. The errors where very significant, but if Gant was hitting .290 I seriously doubt he would have been sent down.Lowcountry
yeah the BA was definitely a big part of why he was sent down, he didn’t play any second that year even b4 being sent to the minors. He did learn the OF while down so you are both kinda right, but I would say that the BA had more influence
By Terry McGuirk
July 4, 2008 4:50 AM | Link to this
ugabrave, I’m calling you out on the carpet.
Get in the square circle.
You talkin’ trash about me on DOB?
Do you smell
what McGuirk
Is cookin’?
By N8
July 4, 2008 4:58 AM | Link to this
BA
Again with the “pot & kettle” routine, calling me a pompous jerk, eh BA?
The dude was being a smart azz, saying that if nobody suggested sending Andruw to the minors, why would anybody DARE suggest sending down Francoeur.
He’d have a point, if nobody last year would have suggested it. Only problem is that MANY suggested it.
Had he been paying attention (or actually wasn’t new to the blog - like I suggested he might be), he would have known that.
Was the “try and keep up” part a little pompous on my part? Sure. Guilty as charged. But I don’t ever try and play “gotcha” with the blog, without having been in a position to do so.
He was wrong. Period. Thus he needs to try and “keep up”.
Just say it. YOU DON’T LIKE ME. Stop trying to point out posts that make me look silly, when I’m more in the “right” than the person I’m responding to.
Believe me. I have no problem admitting I’m wrong, when I am. This time I wasn’t, and you know it.
By BA
July 4, 2008 5:03 AM | Link to this
DOB, in regards to Howard (your 8:40pm) Pete said on the radio last night that the lowest batting average for a league RBI leader was .243, I don’t remember the year but it was Killebrew. Howard’s on a pace to be the all-time lowest. Dobbs, however, is already two-thirds of the way to breaking the all-time Jon Vanderwal pinch hit record. Now enough about the wretched Phillies. Time to kick around the Astros.
By BA
July 4, 2008 5:11 AM | Link to this
I didn’t say you were wrong, bonehead. I said you were pompous. As you love to say (ad naseum) “It is what it is”. And no, I don’t like you. I LOVE you. You’re wonderful. Your posts, all eight thousand of them, are absolute works of art. Where would we be without you…
By Tony Dobson
July 4, 2008 5:37 AM | Link to this
News just in: this year’s team isn’t very good.
In other news: Archduke Ferdinand assassinated in Sarajevo.
C’mon, it’s hardly news now, is it? We’re not a good team and nothing is happening this season. Obviously fans will keep coming back day after day but we’ve got to have realistic expectations, and this year that means no October baseball. I hope we get something half-decent when we offload Teixeria at the trade deadline.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2009)
July 4, 2008 6:02 AM | Link to this
Jason Perry ? I don’t know what to make of that. I ‘ll believe it when I hear it from another more reputable source.
If the Braves are going to call up another outfielder, it should be Josh Anderson. He is hitting .326 in his last ten games and .289 for the season. Anderson is already on the 40 man, Perry is not.
I should just say it. Perry is just some career minor league scrub playing with his fourth organization. Perry does have 15 HR’s and 45 RBI while hitting .312 in 2008. However, Anderson is the real big league prospect.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 4, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this
No source I would trust is reporting the news of Francoeur being sent down. Don’t be surprised when No. 7 is still in the lineup tonight, fellas.
BA, my favorite N8 the H8 cliche is how he follows most every point he makes (all 50,000 of them) with an emphatic “Period.”
For example, N8 the H8 posts way yonder too often. Period.
Between Shaun tearing up the day shift and N8 burning the midnight oil, it’s no wonder DOB can brag so about how much blog hits are way up this season.
By James
July 4, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this
You can’t get more reputable than Bill Shanks. If Bill Shanks said it, believe it. He is connected to the Braves minor league system like nobody else. He is as wired to the entire minor league Braves system as DOB is to the Braves team in Atlanta.
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
However, Anderson is the real big league prospect.Coach
can we take that to the bank too?
Anderson is a fourth/fifth outfielder nothing more.
By Logic
July 4, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
Francouer has played 2 full seasons. In those his on base percentage plus slugging percentage has been 13% below league average (2006) and 3% above league average (2007). He was 27% above in 2005, before pitchers around the league realized he swings at everything. This year he is 22% below. It’s not true that this isn’t a slump for him—-it is. But not as much of one as you guys think.
He has not drawn 100 walks yet—-in his whole career. The only way he’ll ever be above average (and probably the only way he’ll ever not be well below average for a corner OF) is if he develops discipline at the plate. How many people think he’ll do that? Even if he did, it would require him becoming a different hitter, which itself might not be pretty.
Yes, Vlad Guerrero can do it—-have no discipline and succeed. But name one other player like him. I can name a ton of players who haven’t made it that hit like Francouer.
The amusing part is that he looks like a great player, etc, and the Braves are going to keep this out making machine for many, many years. He’s the face of the franchise, after all.
By Quack Quack
July 4, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this
He is as wired to the entire minor league Braves system as DOB is to the Braves team in AtlantJames
yeah he might be the biggest homer in all of sports but he does have a ton of contacts. If it’s about judging talent I wouldn’t pay any attention to him, but if it’s about Braves facts or events you can usually count on him being right.
By Lowcountry Bulldawg
July 4, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this
N8,
Go back to the original post and notice where it was mentioned Gant talking to Frenchy. That was my overall point. A very good baseball player who is around the organiztion who can relate to his struggles.
Now where you felt the need to go on some tanget about the whys and the hows is a bit dumb. I said ‘88, I was off a year. Excuse me, but again if Gant where hitting .290 those errors wouldn’t have looked so bad.
Remember Chipper in the minors? His defense was terrible,but his bat was so goo he was practically going to force them into playin him.
If the Braves elect to demote him,he has a resource in Gant. That is the point..
By doc
July 4, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
from usatoday:
Jul. 4, 2008 - 4:32 a.m. ET
According to WIFN’s Bill Shanks, the Braves have sent Jeff Francoeur to Double-A and are calling up Jason Perry to replace him.
We were hoping to get some additional confirmation here, but it’s looking like that will be impossible until the morning. It’s perfectly reasonable for the Braves to believe that Francoeur would have an easier time breaking out of his slump in the minors than in the majors, but they’re taking a big defensive downgrade by subtracting him from their outfield and they don’t have any great choices to replace him. Jordan Schafer isn’t hitting in Double-A, and while the Braves have been hyperaggressive with top prospects before, they’re not going to haul up Jason Heyward from low-A ball this year. Perry, a quad-A player with big numbers this year, gets the nod and probably would have even if Brandon Jones happened to be eligible to rejoin the team. Still, he may only stick until Matt Diaz returns. Ideally, Francoeur would put a few good games together and rejoin the team right after the break.
Source: The Braves Show
hmmmm!
By nolie
July 4, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
Baseball America Mid-season Hot Prospects All Star Team
Freeman made honorable mention at first base.
Heyward was selected first team in RF;
Hansen was a first team starting Pitcher;
Ex-Brave* Max Ramirez* was first team DH. Man was he tearing up the minors.
By JL
July 4, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this
I wonder if the football scholarship to Clemson is still open for Jeff? Maybe he should try football, because unless he learns to be more selective at the plate, he is never going to make it in baseball. He swings at everything the pitcher throws. I have never seen any player miss so many pitches. The whole Braves team is an embarrassment, and it’s time to make some changes beginning with Cox.
By Philliesuk
July 4, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
DOB Really? Is it that crazy for me to say that the Tex trade is the worst in recent Braves history? That’s hyperbole? Then tell me some worse ones. Part of the reason is said it is actually positive, because the Braves haven’t made too many bad trades. The Justice/Grissom for Lofton trade was bad too. I wasn’t going back as far as the Barker deal.
I just don’t think it’s that ‘hyperbolic’ or a ‘silly statement’ if many Braves fans are already talking about trading Tex less than a year after we acquired him. It’s even been acknowledged in the Atlanta media. So why is it such a ‘silly statement?’
Bottom line is if we are talking about trading him already, then it was a bad trade. Try to convince me otherwise.
I realize that even if Tex was tearing it up, we still would be in bad shape. But come on, how can anyone say that he has has been a good clean-up hitter this year? He has simply been a rally-killer. He did single-handedly win a game in April over the Mets and another game (that I can’t recall). But otherwise, it’s been a disappointing season for him.
As far as the minor leaguers we gave up, I’m surprised about your take on this. We gave up most of our best prospects. It doesn’t matter if they haven’t produced yet in the majors. They were all touted highly for a reason. I just have to expect that at least one or two would be difference makers, at some point. I figured you would agree with that.
By Elmer
July 4, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
I saw this coming when the management brought back Glavine as our savior. let’s fire Cox before we fire Franchoeur.
By Jeff321
July 4, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
I guess Cox only makes a move when the press start writing about and asking questions, eh? What if this happened a little sooner? Would the Braves still be in a hole? Perhaps. Because I think we can all agree the Braves problems are a lot more than Frenchy. However, its a real shame that Cox has to get embarrassed into doing whats right for the team. Ah, and save the excuse of having no one to play right field. Unless of course you’d like to explain to me how Norton manages out there in left? Surely we have people in single A that can catch. Maybe they can’t hit, but last time I checked — Mr. Frenchy hasn’t been doing much of that.
By Herb Kornfeld
July 4, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
Sounds like frenchy is fried.
By Atlanta Fan
July 4, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
I went to the game on wed vs phila. This braves team looks weak. Outfielders L/C were atrocious. The Braves are morphing into the Dale Murphy years with Chipper as his replacement. Sending francouer down is a bandaid for ongoing bad decisions. Atlanta needs the top Dawg playa to take the team out of their 2nd class doldrums. I think of David Justice when i say this. Class , power , results.
By DHD
July 4, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Frenchy has been sent to Double-A according to Rotoworld.com
By McFann©
July 4, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Whoa…
By BamaBravesFan
July 4, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Per Bill Shanks, Frenchy sent to AA Mississippi. All I can say is it is about time! Hopefully he can work things out. Jason Perry called up from AAA Richmond.
By reality
July 4, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Frenchy is just one piece of a puzzle that doesn’t work this year. Yep, injuries were huge, but other clubs have had them, too. Focus on the next year. It could be an exciting one, with the team having so much cash to work with … more than since the free spending days of yesteryear. Just think: With Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz all retired (or just not on the Braves roster), isn’t that around $32 million freed up? Spend wisely and we’ll all have a legit contender in 2009.
By JimD
July 4, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
*By DHD
July 4, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Frenchy has been sent to Double-A according to Rotoworld.com*
And now, finally, according to the AJC
By Don
July 4, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Cox needs to go at the end of this year.
As the Braves will likely have tens of millions of $$$ to reenter the free agent market, I could imagine that potential free agents would have a mark against the Braves based on the uncertainty at the manager’s position (surely Cox won’t last more than a couple more years before retirement).
Therefore, the change should occur at year end so that potential free agents can be recruited under the assumption that the new manager will be there for years to come.
However, unfortunately, Cox is going nowhere and we will have at least one more year of subpar managing.
By Efrim
July 4, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
I feel bad for Frenchy. Hopefully he can get this turned around.
I really never thought the Braves would get swept by the Phils. It is embarassing and very frustrating to see this team underperform.
Sometimes the ball just doesn’t roll your way and it certainly didn’t for the 2008 Atlanta Braves. I still think there is 9 games to go before we decide if this team is a buyer or a seller.
And whoever wrote that Rotoworld article is off base. Schafer has had a bad 6 games, but I wouldn’t say he just isn’t hitting. And why even bring up Heyward?
By Goodoleboy58
July 4, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
its on the AJC Frenchy sent down… hopefully he can get his swing straight and come back up soon
Happy Independence Day everyone!
By ncgary
July 4, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
well the baseball psychic has spoken braves finish 8 games over 500. 85-77 not good , but good enough for wildcard birth, and 3 games behind feelies,just whose the baseball psychic??a bookie in queens?lol
By Robert
July 4, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
“Yes, Vlad Guerrero can do it—-have no discipline and succeed. But name one other player like him”
The other guy who comes to mind (tho he aint no Vlad GHuerrero) is Soriano - who has something like a 5 or 6 to 1 career K/BB ratio yet remains a front line major leaguer
By steve
July 4, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Dave, I LOVE Wilco, and that’s a great song. I wish they would come to Atlanta or nearby sometime soon.
By Sam
July 4, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! The Braves season is ruined but at least some positive news. No more K’s and DP’s to see with the bases juiced or RISP.
By ncgary
July 4, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
that being said what would the cubbies give for hudson tex and francouer there triple a team and 3 promising young pitchers
By TommyP
July 4, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
So we send down Frenchy for another local product from Jonesboro? Always thinking public relations, eh?
All jokes aside…it’s obvious why we chose Perry over Anderson. We already have 2 light hitting centerfield guys on the squad (Kotsay has a little pop) and don’t see the need for a 3rd. Perry has been tearing it up at AA and AAA and I’m sure the Braves are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, a la Charles Thomas, Willie Harris, Matt Diaz, all of which were never considered prospects but gave the Braves a surprising jolt with their play.
Watching Frenchy has been sad as of late, real sad. I’m not going to say it’s been as sad as the Wohlers Saga years ago because that’s the saddest thing I’ve ever seen on a baseball diamond night after night.
You know Jeff has been working tirelessly to break out of this funk but it’s getting worse and worse. One night he rests the bat on his shoulder and the next night it’s held up. He’s simply throwing darts at a board blindfolded.
*Interesting for the bloggers here to see Jeff get sent to the minors and Andruw get called up on the same day. *
As we listen to some on here call for the replacement of Bobby Cox and the fact that he’s aging and it’s any year now, I got to thinking whom would I want to replace him. Then I thought a little deeper and wondered which other coaches I’d want alongside the new hire.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anyone in particular but instead I’ll take the top candidate in the Minnesota Twins organization to steer the ship. Year after year after year they work on a small budget and end up either in first or competing for the lead. And they do all of that by playing the game the right way. We definitely need that.
My pitching coach would be Mike Maddux who has worked wonders with several pitchers for Milwaukee over the past several years.
And somewhere on my staff be it 1st base or 3rd base coach, I’d find a spot for Davey Lopes, the greatest baserunning coach I’ve ever seen. Just look at the unparralleled success of the Phillies’ baserunners over the past few years with him teaching the art of the steal.
I’d overpay for just Maddux and Lopes and come out better than any big salary free agent acquisition.
By NCBravesFan
July 4, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I’m sure Cox, Wren & Co. didn’t give a single thought about sending Francouer out until a bunch of bloggers suggested it.
That’s because they were most likely obsessed with the asinine notion that, having closed the gap on Philly to four games and having same Phillies in their yard for three this week, that if Frenchy were to break out of his slump and the team managed to win the series, it could be something that our young slugger could latch onto heading into the rest of the season.
I’m also sure they were obsessed with the idiotic notion that a guy who drove in 100+ runs in his first two full seasons in the majors might deserve a little respect and have an ample opportunity to work through this on the ML level.
Yeah, and they probably got all hung up on the stupid notion that a guy who’s busting his a$$ on a daily basis and is a respected and well-liked member of the team should be farmed out during his first prolonged slump of his career (& life).
And they probably figured out too late that all the team’s struggles revolve around him and him alone, and that every failure for a disappointing season can be laid at his doorstep.
So I am sure that they are mighty thankful that a bunch of name-calling, anonymous bloggers were able to help them see this clearly so they could for the first time understand that Frenchy could be and should be sent to the minors.
Yeap, I’m sure the Braves’ brass is mighty happy to have such a great core of fans helping them see & assess the real problems, and make the tough choices.
Because I’m sure that this option was never considered by the Braves at all until you guys started talking about it.
By nativebird
July 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Got a tell ya, the Braves brain-trust (Wren-Schuerholz) is drowning and flailing. .189 HITTING FOR FREAKIN 10 YEARS ANDREW JONES WAS NEVER SENT DOWN TO “WORK OUT” HIS CAREER LONG “STRUGGLES” AT MISSIPPII AA.
By nativebird
July 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Got a tell ya, the Braves brain-trust (Wren-Schuerholz) is drowning and flailing. .189 HITTING FOR FREAKIN 10 YEARS ANDREW JONES WAS NEVER SENT DOWN TO “WORK OUT” HIS CAREER LONG “STRUGGLES” AT MISSIPPII AA.
By Hit Heap Hit
July 4, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
What a beautiful headline to wake up to on this independence day. I am shocked right now. Thank you, Wren, for doing the right thing…by the team and by Frenchy. I’m sure the news was like a punch in the gut to him but it really is the best thing for him. I wish him nothing but the best and hope to see him back again someday, only this time when he actually has the talent to play mlb.
By Robert
July 4, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
The choice for manager is as simple as A-B-C
Anybody but Cox
By JimJ
July 4, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
SCAPEGOAT! This team has no passion. No leadership. No soul. The Braves are leaning on a manager who has never been a solid tactician. Bobby Cox is way past his prime, and even in his prime he was not a difference manager. If Joe Torre or Jim Leyland could have had Ted Turner’s payroll, you would have seen 4 or 5 World Series Champions. No we’re leaning on Cox, Smoltz, Glavine, (Old, Old, Old) and —God help us— Chipper. Tex is going to make BIG MONEY in NY or Baltimore next year, because everyone in baseball knows that Chipper’s inflated average is due in large part to the looming number 24 in the on-deck circle. (NEWS FLASH: Chipper IS NOT a .400 hitter) Francouer has been laid on the altar of continuing Braves indifference. Wren has made bad decisions. Cox continues to make bad decisions. The hope of this team is that Glavine can come back, HAMPTON!!! might come back, and Cry Baby, Charmin Chipper Jones can stay healthy. Fat chance, Fat chance, Fat chance. Don’t let them lay this on you Frenchie. You will make big money for a legitimate baseball franchise not too many years down the road.
By Random
July 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Quack Quack: “Perhaps we all were right in our own perspectives.”
All right — I’ll take it.
By Hit Heap Hit
July 4, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Uh nativebird when did Andruw hit .189 for 10 years? Last year was by far his worst season and the Braves responded by letting him go without so much as a conversation about an offer.
By J.D.
July 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Wow do i feel bad for Frenchy. I’ve loved watching him for the past 3 years, but I think that this is the best move. It must be tough for him to take, but I think he realizes he just cannot help Atlanta at this point. Getting his swing back in a less stressful environment is something he can and will accomplish, and I’m sure we will be seeing him soon.
By Tomahawk Kris
July 4, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
To JimJ regarding your 9:42 post - I didn’t know they let people in looney bins get access to the Internet. It must be some sort of 4th of July treat. The least they could do is give you your meds before they let you loose on the Internet. At least then you might come across as only partially insane.
By Jeff R
July 4, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Francoeur is a talented player suffering through a prolonged slump. If going to Mississippi helps him work through the problem, great.
Would think that with the All-Star break coming up, Wren and Company need to take a good hard look at this team. They need to start thinking about positioning it for 2009. That starts with moving Super Tex once the offers start coming in before the trading deadline. Get a couple of top prospects. Better than a draft choice next year.
By Mike
July 4, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Who cares about Francouer…the season officially ended last night. The heartless Braves are done and anyone who thinks otherwise is lost.
By David O'Brien
July 4, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Nativebird, JimJ: Sounds like you guys got into the “fireworks” a bit early on this Fourth of July.
By Robert
July 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Hey Lou Vales
I have an idea for a book -
Donkey in the Dugout - The Story of Booby Cox’s Tenure with the Atlanta Braves
By Seven Words . . .
July 4, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Seven Words …
Or Phrases That Should Be Permanently Retired from the Blog
scuffle — a sheer malapropism; “scuffle” means “to fight in a disorderly manner”; the word you’re looking for is “struggle” (“have trouble, have problems, have difficulties” or “To progress with difficulty”); nobody “scuffles” at the plate — they take it out to the mound (or the dugout, in the case of Zambrano and Barrett, Youkilis and MannyBManny, etc)
insane/insanity —now how is that defined again?
innings-eater — a mythical beast, the stuff of legend and lore
random — random thoughts/random comments/random questions/random blood testing — whatever; nothing is truly random
fish taco — ewwww; say no more
Chief — when referring to DOB (yeah, you know who I’m talkin’ to)
a/an/the — think of all the bits and bytes we’ll save
By Robert
July 4, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
“That’s because they were most likely obsessed with the asinine notion that, having closed the gap on Philly to four games and having same Phillies in their yard for three this week, that if Frenchy were to break out of his slump and the team managed to win the series, it could be something that our young slugger could latch onto heading into the rest of the season. “
Wren mightve been thinking along these lines, but you are so far above Cox’s capability to mentate that it’s a joke
Cox was trying to figure out if Frenchy had a carrot or a sugar cube in one of his pockets. Even as this primitive thought exited from one of his long floppy ears, the dugout began to smell like fart gas
By Lou Vales
July 4, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Observer, We “boo” Presidents, Senators, Representatives, Governors, Mayors, Supreme Court Justices, and Cabinet members much worse than we “boo” baseball players. AND the baseball players make far more money.
I’m sure if the BOOING was so ego demoralizing that they would throw up their hands and say “Who needs this?/ I quit.” Just out of curiosity when did you last here that happen?? And in reality I would be far more tolerant if it wasn’t for the Pavanos and the Hamptons of the World who make a mockery out of the concept of—“an honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work”—You think that is in play?/ AND NO!!!!! I’m not blaming them for taking the money, but I’m certainly not enough of a Jock Sniffer to let them skate on it??
You keep saying I’m bitter about something. Well, not bitter but totally disgusted about an entity like no other in America that long after you quit performing you continue to get compensated while sitting on your dead butt. Observer, Do you REALLY respect the concept of arbitration after 6 years artifically inflating salaries, do you respect the conceptof some guys soaking the DL for what seems to be decades while garnering a King’s ranson?/ Is that really what this country was founded on??
Free Enterprise has TWO words. One of them is ENTERPRISE—Where is the enterprise for some of these stiffs??
By RRR
July 4, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Well OB, it looks as if you and every “insider” in Brave’s Nation knew this was in the works before even Jeff did. Personally, I think back to the game where BMac’s dad and Jeff’s sat together sometime in May (?). Even then I felt for his dad and wondered if he’d have some sage advice for his son, much like how Chipper’s dad has helped his son in the past. I suppose that Jeff’s dad isn’t a coach though…
Anyway, right now I must question Jeff’s attitude about this demotion, as per his quotes in today’s paper. Sure, he’s in shock right now, BUT, should he be? Hmmmm…I don’t think Jeff will be long for the Braves organization.
Another point: it sure looks as if the Braves got the right local kid signed to the long term contract, no? Frankly, Brian should have gotten all the attention that “Frenchy” has undeservedly received in the last two plus years. It’s a good thing that Brian isn’t so high-maintenance. And, it’s sad that Brian is another Brave that must fly under the radar nationally, ala Chipper Jones. Good job OB. Perhaps Jeff should have read this yesterday, and then today wouldn’t have been such a surprise…..
By kris
July 8, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
This may be the worst road hitting team in the history of baseball
By acad
July 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
cacacacac