AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 02 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves struggling with ‘Torino and Phils
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
My daddy was a traveling salesman for John Morrell meats when I was a kid. He’d drive to grocers throughout eastern North Carolina, the way they did it back then. There were two things I remember most about his job.
The first was how he’d sit at the dining-room table, calling in orders to somewhere I imagined was far, far away, reciting phrases and codes, which always seemed to end with something like “Ottumwa 2-3-4-7.”
The other thing was the great new car he’d get every year, obviously always a solid, four-door American-made machine. The salesman’s perk.
When the Starsky & Hutch TV series came out, I thought it was the coolest thing in the world that my dad had driven the same car as those boys drove, and I only wished the company would’ve let him paint the white stripe down the side of his Ford Victorino.
Yes, daddy drove a Victorino. Several of them, in fact. And now I find myself writing about how a Victorino is killing the Braves. And I just find it ironic that … what’s that? It was a Gran Torino that he drove? Oh.
Nevermind.
OK, folks, I went an awful long way for this blog lead-in, didn’t I? Hey, the way the Bravos are playing, got to use your imagination to prevent this daily chronicle from slipping into some sort of repetitive-stress disorder.
Anyway, Shane Gran Torino is quickly joining the list of Braves Nemeses (wouldn’t it be better if the plural of nemesis was nemesi? I think so.) A list that includes some obvious guys, like Torino’s teammate Ryan Howard, but is topped by the likes of Tony Clark and Shawn Green, guys who hit as well or better against the Braves than they did against any other teams.
Folks, Victorino had a homer and four RBI last night, giving him 25 career RBIs against the Braves, which is as many RBI as his totals against any two other teams
He’s got 125 total RBI, including 25 in 44 games against the Braves. His next-highest totals are 13 (in 46 games) against the Marlins and 12 (in 42 games) against the Mets. He also has a personal-best five homers against the Braves, which is more than one-fifth of his career total (23).
The Torino has hit .326 (43-for-132) with a .386 OBP and .515 slugging percentage against the Braves, for a .901 OPS. People, I’d like to remind you: This is Shane Freakin’ Victorino we’re talking about. A .901 OPS!
He’s a career .274 hitter with a .339 OBP and .400 slugging percentage (.739 OPS).
But against the Braves, he’s hit .377 (20-for-53) with three triples, four homers and 12 RBIs in his past 13 games, including two triples in the Kelly Johnson dropped pop-up game, when Victorino had a 10th-inning RBI triple and scored what proved to be the winning run.
Add him to the mix that includes Chase Utley, Howard and Pat Burrell, plus the occasional shutout by Cole Hamels and Kyle Kendrick’s unbeaten record against the Braves, and it’s not too difficult to see how the Phillies basically have assumed ownership of the Braves the past few years.
The Phils are 36-26 against the Braves since the beginning of the 2005 season, 13-5 against them since May 26, 2007, and 6-1 against the Braves this season, including a current five-game winning streak against them.
The Phillies have hit .311 and posted a 2.15 ERA while winning the last five against Atlanta, while the Braves have hit .226 with a 5.60 ERA in those games. The Braves have been outscored 29-11 in that 0-5 skid against Philly.
More disturbing: The Phillies have won seven of their last nine series at Turner Field, and the Braves need to win tonight and Wednesday to keep the Phillies from winning another.
Tonight is a very winnable game, with the Braves’ Jorge Campillo (3-2, 2.54 ERA) facing the Phillies’ Brett Adam Eaton (2-6, 4.86). Eaton is 3-3 with a 5.94 ERA in nine starts against the Braves, and 1-2 with a 9.15 ERA in four since 2007.
Chipper Jones is 6-for-12 with a homer against him, Kelly Johnson is 3-for-10 with two homer, Greg Norton is 5-for-7 with a homer, and Mark Teixeira is 3-for-5 with a homer.
But tomorrow night, that’s when things should get very interesting in a tasty pitching matchup of young aces, Philly’s Cole Hamels (8-5, 3.38) against the Braves’ Jair Jurrjens (8-3, 2.94.)
Jurrjens hasn’t faced Gran Torino and the Phillies, and has never lost a home game. Hamels is 4-0 with a 2.52 ERA in his past five starts against the Bravos, including a four-hit shutout on May 15 in his most recent game against them.
That should be fun. But for tonight, it’ll be up to the Campillo to swap paint with ‘Torino and Co.
By the way, they announced a late-innings substitution last night, and I heard “99 Taguchi,” and it reminded me that I’d like to buy a dirt bike for my nephew and I wonder if by brother would permit him to ride before he’s 16…
Hitting with distractions: The distractions I’m referring to are baserunners, which are giving these Braves fits. Their own baserunners, that is.
The Braves are tied for the second-best average in the NL with no one on base, a .274 average, same as the Cardinals (the Cubs lead at .282).
But with a runner or runners on base, the Braves slip to seventh in the NL at .265. Meanwhile, the Cubs gain a point to .283, also the league leader).
And with runners in scoring position, the Braves slip yet again to .255, smack in the middle of the pack in the NL, ahead of only seven of the other 15 teams and 31 points behind the Cubs, who lead in this category, too, at .286.
Finally, in close-and-late situations, the Braves are ninth in the NL at .248, while the Cubs — surprise — lead the league at .276.
See a pattern? Cubs go from .282 with none on, to .283 with runners on, to .286 with runners in scoring position, and .276 (with 16 homers) in late-and-close situations.
Braves go from .274 with none on, to .265 with runners on, to .255 with runners in scoring position, and .248 (with eight homers) in late-and-close situations.
And the RISP average continues to slide with games like last night’s horrendous 1-for-15 performance by the Braves with runners in scoring position.
Young Charlie Morton pitched poorly last night and was gone without recording an out in the third inning. He gave up four runs in that inning, five altogether. But you gotta wonder, might the game have been a little different if the Braves hadn’t gone 0-for-5 with runners in scoring position during the first two innings?
By the way, the rest of the runs came off Blaine Boyer, and you think he might be dreading the next time he’s called on to face the Phils? He’s faced them four times this season and given 10 hits, eight runs (seven earned) and five walks with two strikeouts in three innings.
The Phillies have hit .556 against him this season.
OK, gotta get to the park. Another beautiful day to ride the (motor)bike to work, no rain in sight, humidity still relatively low.
”DANKO/MANUEL” by Jason Isbell (Drive-By Truckers)
Let the night air cool you off.
Tilt your head back and try to cough.
Don’t say nothing ‘bout the things you never saw.
Let the night air cool you off.
I ain’t living like I should.
A little rest might do me good.
Got to sinking in the place where I once stood.
Now I ain’t living like I should.
Can you hear that singing? Sounds like gold.
Maybe I can only hear it in my head.
Fifteen years ago we owned that road
now it’s rolling over us instead.
Richard Manuel is dead.
God forbid you call their bluff.
Like the nightmares ain’t enough.
Remember when we used to think that we were tough?
God forbid you call their bluff.
First they make you out to be
the only pirate on the sea.
Then they say Danko would have sounded just like me.
“Is that the man you want to be?”
Can you hear that song? It sounds like gold.
Maybe I could make it bigger overseas.
Fifteen years ago we owned this road
now it only gives us somewhere else to leave.
Something else you can’t believe.
Can you hear that singing? Sounds like gold.
Maybe I can hear poor Richard from the grave
singin’ where to reap and when to sow
when you’ve found another home you have to leave.
Something else you can’t believe.
Services »
Comments
By flange1
July 2, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog DOB!
By Graham
July 2, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
DOB
With Boyer’s stats against the Phils, what would Bobby’s rationale be to use him in this series?
By Chop Chop
July 2, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
I witnessed Shane Victorino’s first major league HR. He hit it against Tim Hudson in the 9th inning of a 4-0 Braves loss back in late September of 2005. I remember thinking, “Who the hell is this little guy?”
Little did I know that I was seeing the next Craig Counsell.
By J.D. Phillips
July 2, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Another stellar hitting performance by this team last night. Playoffs here we come.
By Ryan
July 2, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Hi
By macdwolfpack
July 2, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Dave, based on what you are saying about the Braves lack of clutch hitting where are you laying the blame? Is it the fault of the hitting instructor? Is it the fault of the hitters and if so and the hitting instructor can’t or won’t get them to performing as they should then where do you make the adjustment? And I might add the adjustment has to be made we are now in about 18 months of this cycle and it isn’t getting any better, even minus what was the most notorius of hitter in Andruw Jones.
Do you fire the hitting coach at the All-Star break? Do you make some major modifications to this lineup through trades at the break? Dave, what are the solutions that you would make? Solutions have to be implemented because the Braves have basically been treading water for about a year and a half now and it’s gotten them nowhere.
By Dawgsfan1990
July 2, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
DOB
Is there a site with some biographical information on you somewhere out there in Internet Land? I was telling a friend of mine in SF who is a big Braves fan (and an even bigger “Americana/Song Writer” type music fan) about your blog and he asked “the Dave O’Brien that calls some ballgames on ESPN?” After laughing for several minutes I told him I didnt think so and that I would try to find some background on you…surprisingly which there is not too much of out there…if you can point me to something I will at least make you a Wikipedia entry! Thanks and keep up the great work!
GO BRAVES AND DRIVE-BY-TRUCKERS!
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog, Chief!
Jorge Campillo’s pitching tonight!! Just for…old time’s sake, let’s have a little of that action we saw prior to Camp’s last two starts…
Yeah, I think y’all know what I mean.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Uh…Hi, Ryan…
By Doc Holliday
July 2, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
BravesFanTheRockies
I meant until Matt cames back———meaning, time to DFA gotay.
By Shaun
July 2, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
We can place a lot of the blame on Francoeur for the Braves’ struggles with men on.
Francoeur has the second most ABs with runners on and is hitting .216.
Escobar is only hitting .250 but he is doing something to help in those situation, posting a .354 OBP.
Mark Kotsay’s numbers with runners on aren’t impressive (.247 AVG/.319 OBP) but he ranks 8th in AB, 68 AB behind Francoeur.
Not good when your worst regular is getting the most opportunities to do damage.
For the record, I don’t particularly enjoy knocking Francoeur because I think he plays hard and I think he’s going to be a solid major leaguer. But the Braves would do well to do something with him so he doesn’t hurt the team and so he can become the player he should.
By BossLady
July 2, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, that was when people had jobs and companies hired people to promote the company. Now, they use the internet, television and mail. Let people buy if they want or not. I sorta miss that personal contact with customers.
Ya know, that time relates to the same time when the Braves were losers. How we went to the ATLANTA STADIUM and witnessed loss after loss.
It is not a good sign when you see time begin to repeat itself.
By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy
July 2, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
My favorite Drive-By Trucker song ever….Probably in my top 3 songs from any artist, period. Outstanding.
DOB, I recommend you find the bootleg “Live at Cooley’s House” cd. It was recorded around the time of The Dirty South sessions. Raw, but incredible performances of Danko/Manuel, Where the Devil Don’t Stay, Zip City, Uncle Frank, and several others. I believe it was sort of an acoustic practice session for Shonna Tucker just before she joined the band. You can hear Isbell verbally teaching her the chords in between lines during the songs. (i.e. “Go on down to A-minor” in *G.D. Lonely Love.)
I know you’ve said in the past that you prefer to buy c.d.’s and have the liner notes, but this is one bootleg/download that any DBT fan MUST have.
Here’s a link where you can listen to the tracks online:
http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2003-12-29.akg483.flac16
By Renegator
July 2, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
*By the way, the rest of the runs came off Blaine Boyer, and you think he might be dreading the next time he’s called on to face the Phils? He’s faced them four times this season and given 10 hits, eight runs (seven earned) and five walks with two strikeouts in three innings.
The Phillies have hit .556 against him this season.*
Isn’t it someone on the Braves job to know this? If Bobby knew that would it even influence his decision to use Boyer? I know he has a rule about using Boyer in every game…
By DAP
July 2, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
thanx for the new blog, DOB. awesome as usual. you seem to be in a good mood, too. lets hope the braves show some life tonight…the last few games have been painful to watch.
victorino is a good player, i like him alot. ill never forget the kelly dropped pop-up game when he hit the RBI triple in the 10th inning…he spit all over himself after he slid into thrid because he was so excited…and everytime they showed him on third after that you could see spit hanging from his goatee. i thought it was funny.
By Mike S
July 2, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Not only is he a Brave killer, but Victorino also has great nicknames:
Gran Turino (Thanks DOB) The Flyin’ Hawaiian The Pineapple Express
By Shaun
July 2, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
If we look at what the Braves have done with RISP, Francoeur sticks out even more like a sore thumb.
Francoeur - .206/.269/.330 in 97 AB
The worst player with at least 60 AB with RISP is Kelly Johnson at .267/.356/.433, which obviously is pretty good.
Francoeur is the only player on the team with at least 50 AB with RISP who has post an OPS worse than .789.
Take away Francoeur and the Braves have been quite impressive with RISP.
By David-ATL14
July 2, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
DOB A query if you will
Listening to the Mississippi Braves broadcast on Monday, their announcers said that Prado would play Monday and Tuesday with them on rehab and then be activated by the Parent club on Wednesday.
Obviously Prado’s trip to Atlanta and being on standby for Tuesday was decided after the AA game on Monday, Listening to the Tuesday game their annoucers were now under the impression that Prado woud play 2 more games in AA(Wednesday & Thursday) then return to Atlanta to be activated for the Friday game.
What have you heard? Thanks.
By Section 412
July 2, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Tough night at the yard last night. Not a lot of life on the field or in the stands. Heard a stat on the radio coming home — Boyer made his 48th appearance last night (I believe 48 was the number). Anyway, the point was that this is a new career high as a pro for him. I know he’s young, but a career high in appearances for a season - before the break. And we wonder why some of these guys are showing signs of weakness.
By Doc Holliday
July 2, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
*David-ATL14 *
DOB said that he thinks Prado wont be back for another 1-2 weeks.
By Section 412
July 2, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
I have to say, though, that it was nice to see a bigger part of our big league team out there last night. Kotsay and Chipper back was good, getting Escobar back will help, and having a full bench of Infante, Norton, Prado, etc., will also be nice.
We really haven’t had our whole team all year (even excluding pitchers). Let’s just hang in for a few more days, then we can possibly make a run.
By Byron Billion
July 2, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Starsky & Hutch? Drive by Truckers? Meat Salesmen? Pontiacs?
No wonder the Braves are in such sad shape.
By Shaun
July 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Braves have five of the top 62 hitters in OPS with RISP.
By Shaun
July 2, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Braves have five of the NL’s top 62 hitters in OPS with RISP.
By Shaun
July 2, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Braves have five of the NL’s top 62 hitters in OPS with RISP (min. 50 PA).
By Ryan
July 2, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
We sure aren’t hearing any rumblings about the braves looking for a LF or trying to make a deal. That should tell us something right there…
By David-ATL14
July 2, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Thank you Doc Holliday.
Seems like the MBraves announcers were “out of the loop” then with their less than stellar info then.
By 6th grade graduate student
July 2, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
If I am understanding all of this right Victorino good / Francoeur bad.
By Chop Chop
July 2, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Section 412,
It was actually Boyer’s 44th appearance, but it’s still insane. I just hope that he doesn’t end up facing the same fate as the two overworked guys last year (Moylan and Soriano).
Shaun,
Speaking of overworked pitchers, do you know if there is a site that has Pitcher Abuse Points listed for relievers? I went over to Baseball Prospectus and only found the PAPs for starting pitchers.
By THB
July 2, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Let’s hope this is tonight’s lineup:
Blanco-LF, Escobar-SS, Chipper-3B, Teixeira-1B, McCann-C, Kelly-2B, Francoeur-RF, Kotsay-CF, P
By Chop Chop
July 2, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
6th grade graduate student,
The reason why Victorino is good is because he has the word “Victor” in his last name. To the Victor go the spoils.
And now, at the risk of sounding mean, I posit that “Loserino” is Jeff Francoeur’s real last name.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Echoing DOB in last blog, thanks for the stats on Frenchy.
So why is he with the big club rather than B. Jones?
Just asking.
By OrlandoFan
July 2, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
DOB, if your dad swiped any company meat, would you have dined on purloined sirloin?
By ncscoots
July 2, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
44 appearances for Boyer, I think. He’s given up runs in 12 of those (but I don’t think anyone here really cares about the 32 scorelesss ones, LOL). A third of those runs in the four games against the Phillies. His biggest problem is that he’s given up multiple runs in too many of the games in which he has allowed runs at all, and I think that tends to color the perception of some here.
The guy has been solid three out four times he’s on the hill, but just too much exposure, IMO.
By Patrick
July 2, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Got a great movie for you to go if you haven’t yet…WANTED.
I have to say that I would have never went to see it if a friend of mine wasn’t in the movie but it was awesome!!
By DAP
July 2, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
6th grade student If I am understanding all of this right Victorino good / Francoeur bad.
so far this season…yeah, thats right. they are very different players expected to do different things, so while vicotrino has fewer homers and rbis, he gets on base more, steals bases (20 this year) and scores runs. isnt doing what he is supposed to do. hit homeruns, and drive guys in.
By ncscoots
July 2, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
THB, my impression is that the offense clicked best when it was Escobar/Kotsay at the top. Those two have a better chance at driving in runners from the bottom of the order, with no sacrifice in OBP. To me, Blanco just seems better suited at the bottom of the order, considering the other bats available (when healthy).
By monty
July 2, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Certain palyers just hit better against some teams, unfortunately it’s against the BRaves. Chipper kills the Mets. I think hitting is alot about confidence and when you get your Mojo working against a team it’s like they can’t stop you, you own them! Obviously whatever “the book” is against him they can tear out the pages and start over.
My theory on the Phils owning Boyer is they are a power hitting team and power hitters can hit 95 mph fastballs with liitle movement all day long. I know Boyer throws a slow curve but you have to have a hard slider like Smoltz to keep them off your heater. To my knowldge Boyer doesn’t throw a slider. With his speed he ought to be able to throw a slider around the same speed as Smoltz, just don’t think it’s in his arsenal.
By geauxbraves2000
July 2, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
I think the reason JS has so many AB with RISP has to be the opposition is pitching around others to get to him. I know I would. Throw him high and outside, inside for a foul ball, and then curve one down and away, and boom, strike 3 inning over. No reason to ever throw him a strike until he gets control of the strikezone.
I hope he gets it figured out, this team needs his bat. Plus for his peace of mind also, for he his a fellow human being, not just a uniform.
I remember the doc that straightened Smoltzie around that one year, don’t remember his name though, maybe JF could give him a call.
Let’s kick some butt and take some names tonight!
Geaux Braves!!
By Robin
July 2, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Victorino’s a spark-plug. Guy is a five-tooler. Sure would like to have somebody with his make-up on our team.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
THB Blanco-LF, Escobar-SS, Chipper-3B, Teixeira-1B, McCann-C, Kelly-2B, Francoeur-RF, Kotsay-CF, P
Camp’s pitching, so maybe that will mean Corky will be in there!
I personally think he should be, but I know! I know! He doesn’t hit…
But, if you really think about, McCann hasn’t done much of that lately…especially with RISP. Last time he got a hit with RISP was June 21, when he hit the walk-off single.
By John
July 2, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Victorino is not a 5 tool player. He has 23 home runs in his entire career.
By Dawgsfan1990
July 2, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
I like Z-Man (Kotsay) in the 2nd spot, but it seems I heard somewhere he doesn’t like that spot too much.
My favorite DBT song is “Nine Bullets”
Boyer’s breaking ball is filthy. He must not have closer mentality (he wilted in both his save opps this year didnt he?)because he certainly does have closer stuff.
By flange1
July 2, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
geauxbranves2000,
I think you make a great point on young Frenchy.
Yes he has stunk it up so far this year.
Yes he is a kid!
Maybe Smoltz’s Dr. Jack Llewlyn could help him out.
Heck, I bet Dr. Jack could help Hampton come back from injuries and Charlie Morton with confidence.
The Braves helped Smoltz when he had a problem, why not extend that same help to others who need some help right now!
By Thrillhouse44
July 2, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Victorino’s a spark-plug. Guy is a five-tooler. Sure would like to have somebody with his make-up on our team. Robin
Robin, I present to you Yunel Escobar.
By ncscoots
July 2, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Victorino is not a 5 tool player. He has 23 home runs in his entire career.
Think that poster must have been counting the set of Craftsmans Victorino picked up at Sears, LOL.
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Here are a couple of snip-its from KEN ROSENTHAL and JAYSON STARK on possible trades for the BRAVES
“Teams such as the Braves, Phillies, and Brewers have expressed interest in Zack Greinke”
“The Braves have shifted their focus from starting pitching to an impact bat in left field. Stark suggests Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay, and Xavier Nady would make sense. Matt Holliday would be too costly; Adam Dunn is not mentioned.”
There is also an article where theBraves and Rays were directly mentioned for M’s relievers ARTHUR RHODES and SEAN GREEN
Could you imagine the boost it would give the Braves to add a NADY/BAY and ZACK GRINKE?
Wow…who knows but that would be great
By Ramblin Wrecker
July 2, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What are the chances that the Braves could pick up someone like Jason Bay to aid their struggling outfield offense? They have a historically bad record in 1 run games and a legitimate power threat like Bay could help swing some of those 1 run games the Braves way. Add that to the excellent young pitching the Braves have uncovered and I think they’d have something.
By Colonel Lingus
July 2, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
South Atlantic League
Prospect Of The Day
A Rome Brave takes POTD honors for the second day in a row after lefthander Jeff Locke tossed seven strong innings against Columbus (Rays). Locke held the Catfish to two runs on four hits while walking two and striking out five, improving his mark to 3-7, 4.12.
Prospect Nuggets
Locke was given offensive support by right fielder Jason Heyward, who went 3-for-4 with two RBIs, and left fielder Cody Johnson, who went 2-for-3 and hit his 13th home run of the year
By Robin
July 2, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
John: Ok, a four-tooler then. :)
Seems like he’s hit 20 of those 23 against us though. I dunno, I like his energy and skills.
By DAP
July 2, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
good things about last nights game, as already mentioned, buddy looked great. hes a guy i really root for and i hope he continues to do well where ever the braves use him. seems like a really good guy.
will ohman showed some guts, hunh? striking out utley and howard back-to-back with the bases loaded…wow. what a nerve racking situation. ohman has been great for us.
also…its didnt get GREAT results, but francouer has a new batting stance. he got a hit last night, so hopefully he will get encouraged and back on track. his new stance is a little more upright than before, no toe-tap and he rest the bat on his shoulder to keep it from moving around alot before he swings….i hope it works for him. this is good because it shows jeff is trying real hard to find a way to change. hes adjusting.
By Mr. Snrub
July 2, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Did anyone else watch the game on Extra Innings? The Phillies play by play guy is the worst. He’s less exciting than Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller…
By flange1
July 2, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith,
Yes the rumors are out there about the Braves!
It would be great to get Greinke and Bay/Nady.
Wonder what it would cost us?
My guess is more than we would be comfortable with.
Probably 1 major league player and 4 of our top 5 prospects would be my guess.
Are you interested in trading Heyward, Hanson, Rorebaugh, G Hernandez and KJ for Greinke and Bay/Nady?
I am not sure….
By A Fan
July 2, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Is Bobby Cox too soft on the Braves? Whoa, hang on now. I love Bobby too, but I think it is high time that he stops making excuses for poor performances by our extremely well compensated Atlanta Braves. OK, now you can shoot.
By ernesto
July 2, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Last 7 games Frenchy’s banging at a .111 clip, that’ll leave some ducks on the proverbial pond.
We basically have a guy who hits comparable to a relief pitcher coming up at key points in games.
Seems like we’re lucky to be only 4 games under .500.
At least partially platooning Frenchy for a while seems like a must at this point
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
No one has said it better than Yahoo today. They graded the Braves a C- so far for the 2008 season but the thing that stood out to me was this line in the grade.
Give up or make a push in a bumbling division.
I agree 100%!! This division is there for the taking. You either come out hungry for it now or stop teasing us and lets make trades and plans for next year.
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
flange1
While I do think it would be expensive to get those guys, I think you are overestimating the cost a good bit…
That is more than was given up for TEX
I would give up Brandon Jones, Blanco, and a low level prospect for BAY (would have him next year too)
I would give up Rourbaugh, Gorkys Hernandez, Diory, and Lilbridge (if he ddn’t go in the other deal) for GRIENKE who you would control and is a young good pitcher
Understand this, the BRAVES will NOT trade KJ, Yunel, TEX, FRENCHY, McCANN, JOJO, MORTON, HUDDY, CAMPILLIO, (obviously Chipper), nor do I think they will ever trade SCHAEFER or HEYWARD
Also I think that package I mentioned for GRIENKE or BAY could get you HARDEN from the A’s
By Why Us
July 2, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Dap will ohman showed some guts, hunh? striking out utley and howard back-to-back with the bases loaded…wow. what a nerve racking situation. ohman has been great for us.
I feel that Ohman has done what’s been asked of him all season. One of the BP guys you can really count on.
YET
According to the many trade boards, rumors sites etc, Ohmnan is listed as the guy the Braves are trying to move!
Seems his contract is up & Braves don’t want to negoiate or pay what they think he might bring.
Why does this happen everytime we find an effective reliever?
I remember during the off season many of the so called experts out there (not bloggers-but those from the sites that follow MLB) saying immediately after the new contract was signed that Sorianno would disappear, many said he seems to have a past history of mental funks & mysterious injuries doctors can never find a reason for or diagnose?
By flange1
July 2, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith,
Maybe you are right! I just don’t see B Jones, Blanco (the Pirates do NOT need a CF) and a low level prospect getting BAY.
I think B Jones, Hanson and a low level prospect might get it done.
For Greinke, you might be closer, but I think you would have to replace one of the middle infielders with a pitcher.
By Catfish
July 2, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
No more rental players. Look at what the Marlins have done by TRADING FOR PROSPECTS. I am fed up with trading away top prospects for players we cannot or will not sign. If the Braves make another rape-the-farm-system trade for anther rental player, I will seriously consider giving up watching baseball.
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
By the way…there is also a new article about how the Braves would be the best fit for BONDS and that the braves should “really consider doing it” and “Wren needs to get on the phone now”
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
David-ATL, others: Prado is here, still on standby, and could be activated depending on how Escobar does in game tonight. Escobar’s back in lineup, and if he has no problems with his shoulder, I’m thinking they’ll activate Prado and send Lillibridge back down.
Bobby didn’t lay all this out, other than to say that he might activate Prado depending on how Escobar does. From his comments in past, I know Braves don’t consider shortstop to be a Prado strength; so if Escobar has problems, they’d keep Lillibridge up here to play shortstop until Escobar is healthy.
But if Escobar has no problems, I’m betting they’ll activate Prado, who’s a much better offensive player at this stage (Lillibridge just isn’t quite ready) and can play second, third and left field, and SS in a pinch.
By NCBravesFan
July 2, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith Bonds is in his mid-40’s with creaky knees & in clear legal trouble.
He was also a cancer in the Giants clubhouse for the last 4 or 5 years. The Giants sure don’t seem to miss his bat, and that includes where it counts … in the W-L column.
Bad, bad idea for the Braves to sign him, in my opinion.
By Doc Holliday
July 2, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith please have some respect for the braves. Bonds was and still is unfaithful to baseball (fans, players, etc.) I rather end the season in september than having bonds in a bravees uni. Totally out of order.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Starsky & Hutch? Drive by Truckers? Meat Salesmen? Pontiacs?
No wonder the Braves are in such sad shape.Byron Billion
BB, who said anything about a Pontiac? Ford, son.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 2, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Dude I LIVE right outside Philly and watch those Phillies telecasts on CW11 and Comcast SN and Larry Anderson and Gary “Sarge” Mathews are THE WORST EVER!!!!!!! They say the most idiotic things and have the most monotone voices until the Phillies do the most remotely positive thing. It’s so horrific to listen to. The producers are AWFUL too my father and I always pick out like 5-10 mistakes by the announcers and producers EVERY SINGLE GAME. I am a die-hard ATL fan and watch hoping they lose but its become unbearableto listen and watch. It’s like eating Baked Lays Potato Chips by themselves for 3 meals a day for a month…Unfortunately it’s that or nothing for me with the Braves’ series…
GO BRAVES!!
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Catfish
I understand your sentiment BUT Your logic is faulty
At the Major League level the Braves are already VERY YOUNG
What position do we have in the minor leagues that we NEED that we would trade?
You are YOUNG at SS with Yunel, young at 2nd with KJ, young at 1B with TEX (and have Heyward several years away)
you are young at Catcher and RF with McCann and Frenchy and will have Schaefer up for CF next year or so
Chipper is older but he will be here for several more years
your new starting rotation with Campillo, Jurgens, JOJO, Morton are young and HUDDY is not old
So what position does that leave you to fill? LF and maybe one more starter or middle reliver
Most of those guys whose names you know in the minors are BLOCKED by other YOUNG players at the major league level
So what should the Braves do keep them in the MINORS for the next 5-8 years?
NOOOOOOOO players at the positions that are blocked should be used for trade
The Marlins had no players at the major league level better than their minor leaguers and when they did…THEY TRADED THEM
By MGL
July 2, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
I know Little Bridge has not done much offensively, but from the games I saw, he deserves kudos for his defensive work at SS.
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Doc Holiday and NcBravesFan
I didn’t say I wanted BONDS…I was just saying in addition to the other articles I saw today and mentioned here, I saw the Bonds article as well
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
This will be the first time something this close to full lineup has been in place in more than a month: 1. Blanco (LF), 2. Escobar, 3. Chipper, 4. Tex, 5. McCann, 6. KJ, 7. Francoeur, 8. Kotsay, 9. Campillo.
By Lew
July 2, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Flange-Definitely not Hanson.
Best DBT songs are Sinkhole and Guitar Man Upstairs.
By ernesto
July 2, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
One could argue that Frenchy is no longer “blocking” anyone in RF.
Not sure KJ is “blocking” anyone at 2B either. If they got rid of La Roche, they could conceivably get rid of KJ if they saw it as an upgrade.
Catcher, 3B, and SS (and obviously 1B if they resign Tex) are the only positions where the Braves have guys they will build around, I think everyone else is “touchable.”
By ObiWanKobe
July 2, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, Does your Dad have a problem with the Bovine Idol, given his profession?
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 2, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Until further notice, Jeff Franceour’s new nickname will be Jeff “Jughead” Franceour due to his mental approach at the plate. Named after the ol’ character from the Archies Cartoon Series, Gen Xers look it up.
By GeorgetownKid
July 2, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien,
I have tried to ask you this before, but I don’t know if you saw my posts.
Regarding Lilibridge, do you think that the Braves still think as highly of him as they used to? I always had the impression that the Braves projected him to be a quality starter (though not necessarily a star). With his very dissapointing season at Richmond, and with his unimpressive play in his short time in Atlanta, I wonder if the Braves still view him as a top-notch prospect.
Similarly with B. Jones, who is also playing poorly in Richmond.
Are Jones and Lilibridge still viewed by the Braves’ front office as future starters in the bigs?
Thanks!!
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
By the way, Chipper says he’s going to the All-Star Game regardless. Looking forward to the experience (they’ve got all kinds of stuff planned, including having all the living Hall of Famers who attend go out on the field at their position before the game.
Long as he has no health problems between now and then, he’ll play in the All-Star Game.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
I don’t know exactly what they’re honestly projecting Lillibridge as these days, but he’s obviously still a prospect and still a big-league viable guy or they wouldn’t have brought him up to play shortstop despite is bad numbers this season.
He’s still got all the talent he ever did, just has taken a bit of a step back, perhaps, this season. But all it takes is for one other team to believe what they saw of him last year is what he’ll do in the bigs some day.
Just don’t know. There are no black-and-white answers to such questions. If a team calls and asks that he be included in a deal for a need the Braves have, I’m sure they’ll listen. He’s not untouchable. But he might also end up playing for the Braves, either in a utility role or a regular role. He’s still developing.
Brandon, they also think highly of, or else they wouldn’t have replaced Anderson with him despite Brandon’s mediocre numbers at Richmond. Minor league numbers are out the door once a guy gets here. It’s what he does once he gets here that supercedes all else, long as they believe he’s got the talent to continue to develop.
They’ve got plenty of outfield prospects, so he, too, isn’t untouchable. They can’t all play here. One or two of them will probably eventually be used in deals to fill other needs.
By bravos2249
July 2, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
DOB
In Omar is healthy do you think he might play 2nd tomorrow given Kelly is 2-11 against Hamels and has played everyday for about a month?
By bravos2249
July 2, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
DOB
If Omar is healthy do you think he might play 2nd tomorrow given Kelly is 2-11 against Hamels and has played everyday for about a month?
By Werner Von Braun
July 2, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Boys & Girls, This is not rocket science…the Braves sux this year. And, they will next year, too. This is caused by doing the same thing every year and expecting different results (the over and under of this working ran out 3 years ago). We just don’t have very good talent or talent evaluators. We’re not getting the same managing and coaching as in the past…funny how “mo money” and “resting on your laurels” destroys the initiative. And finally, you’re to blmae. No one supports the team when they are winning or losing. Perhaps the ridiculous high costs of attending a game anf they’re all on TV is a deterent. In any event, time to look forward to UGA football and a national championship in 2008.
By Run Heap Run
July 2, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB thanks for the note on Hoss and the ASG. Now that he’s back to “75%” I assumed he would go to the ASG but I didn’t know if he would go if he was hurting. What a great experience for him. AND HEAP! I hope you all got your 25 (or more if you have more than one account) votes in for the Heapster to start..
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
ObiWan, my dad would know how to properly cut and process the animal (he eventually moved into management in the packing-house end of the business, and I spent a Christmas break and one summer working on the cutting line myself, making those union wages, baby).
It should be noted, however, as GM Frank Wren (who grew up on a farm) pointed out the other day in the dugout before a game, the cow atop the stadium is actually a Holstein, a dairy cow. You wouldn’t eat such a cow, you’d milk it.
But they use that cow for their ads because it’s the most recognizable cow, apparently, with its black-and-white coloring and all.
I guess the big ol’ brown bovine (beef) cow wouldn’t look so cute and cuddly in the eat-more-chikin ads. Or maybe a Chick-fil-a marketing person could set us straight on the strategy there.
By Catfish
July 2, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
The loss of Peter Moylan and Rafael Soriano has really hurt this team. Of course, the return of Gonzalez helps, but the bullpen is still in need of a solid set-up man. Blaine Boyer and Jeff Bennett cannot get the job done. The Braves have offensive problems, but if they could only win half of those one-run games, they would be in first place. So far, I have not heard of any rumors for a solid set-up guy for the bullpen.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 2, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Hey Werner Von Braun USC will win the 08 and 09 Championships……UGA has no chance, why even bother watching the next two years?? Its pointless unless you want to watch USC take it all home baby…Why are you on a Braves blog stating idiotic comments like Braves have no chance next year, let alone this year?? Where is your reasoning, unless you have legitimate points keep your fingers idle…
By keylargo
July 2, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
ALLRIGHT
Braves announcers AND HD. We are off to a winning start!
By Frumpy
July 2, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Finally a good looking lineup! Looks so much better with Escobar back and in the 2 spot and Kelly down the order where we know he hits well.
Got a feeling a homer by KJ tonight!!
By DP
July 2, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
With regard to this:
‘Looking forward to the experience (they’ve got all kinds of stuff planned, including having all the living Hall of Famers who attend go out on the field at their position before the game.”
What are all the dead Hall of Famers who attend going to do?
By Robert
July 2, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
“Victorino’s a spark-plug. Guy is a five-tooler. Sure would like to have somebody with his make-up on our team”
Why? Cox would either calm his enthusiasm or ship him on the next bus out of town
By Robert
July 2, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
“We’re not getting the same managing and coaching as in the past”
Oh yes we are. The same donkey who regularly turned World Series winners into division champions is now turning division champions into .500 ballclubs
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Why does Joe keep bringing up Phillies hitters stats against our pitching? EVERYONE on the Phils hits our pitching. At least through 7 games.
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Nice throw by Blanco and tag by McCann. 4 hits, 3 doubles by the Phils through 2 innings……
By kirknga
July 2, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Nice throw Blanco!
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
GREAT TAG!!
By keylargo
July 2, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Gregor Blanco has taken a lot of heat for his lack of arm strength but when he threw out Coste at the plate in the top of the second that was his 4th assist. One more than Andruw Jones had last year.
By Herberto
July 2, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Ahhh, the braves. All crap, all overpaid & underworked. All the time. Lousy team, lousy manager, lousy owners. I say move them to vegas.
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
That ball was three feet off the plate. Jeff is still lost.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
With Campillo on the mound, I’d bat Frenchy 9th. Seriously.
By Jeff321
July 2, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
Haha, anyone see that swing on the third strike by Frenchy? I actually feel sorry for the guy. IMO, every day Cox leaves him in the lineup, its just more egg on both of their faces.
By Robroy
July 2, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
I know alot of people are calling for Frenchy’s head, but I have to jump on the bandwagon for different reasons.
It’s getting sad to watch and I feel sorry for the guy. Maybe he needs to go down and figure out his probs out of the limelight?
By Peanut
July 2, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
With a swing like that, it’s almost like he doesn’t want to break out of it.
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t seem like Campillo has great command tonight. Braves bats are going to have to get going at some point. Earlier than down by 5 in the 7th too.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Deed to the Braves is being passed to the Braves.
This is ownership, folks.
By Doc Holliday
July 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Holly ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I smell a sweep already.
Mayday mayday!!!!!!!!!!!!
By kirknga
July 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Good point about Boyer. So I looked at Acosta and he’s allowed sruns in only 10 of 40 apperances. 5 of those alot of runs.
Seems like the big picture view of both is not as bad as some pretend it is.
By NCBravesFan
July 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Ah well - at least Ghost Hunters is on SciFi tonight …
By flange1
July 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
OOOOHHHH. That hurt 3 run bomb by Howard
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Yup. That’ll about do it.
4 hitters in their prime. What are ya gonna do?
Joe said it “Far too many weapons”.
By ccrider
July 2, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
1st!!! First to offically make the doctor’s call: 2008 Atlanta Braves season is dead!!! Hamels will drive the final stake through the heart of this team and the Braves will not be a factor in the race for the rest of the season. Frank Wren, it’s time to become Monty Hall— “Let’s Make a Deal”
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Rollins was halfway to second by the time Camp threw the ball…
When does the real game start? I think this is a rerun.
By Coach Smith
July 2, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
This is getting ridiculous
WREN needs to make a trade happen sooner rather than later to breath SOME LIFE and new blood into this listless team
They have too much talent to continue playing this way
By flange1
July 2, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I am not up on trading Hanson either. That is just what I think it would take to get Bay.
By ijonathan
July 2, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or is Blanco twice as fast on the bases as he is in the outfield? That glove must weigh a ton…
By keylargo
July 2, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
McFann
If you have not decided what you want to do in life I would like you to consider being a defense attorney. It would involve a lot of work but if you could defend your client like you defend * Brian McCann* you would be every DA’s nightmare!
Keep up the good work. 8)
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Okay Heap. Please come through here.
By Robin
July 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Hey!! Bases loaded!
Hey!! Pop-out!
What’s new???????
:(
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Sigh.
By kirknga
July 2, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
I have trouble believing those of you who say the season is done. If you believe that, then why do you keep watching and showing up here to tells us the season’s over with?
Not saying you should not have your say. Just find it curious that end the end you are like the rest of us who haven’t quit.
I think for some of you in your heart of hearts you can’t quit, you’re addicted to the Braves like the rest of us, and you would hop back on the bandwagon the second the Braves make a run.
By flange1
July 2, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
Can anybody get a hit with the bases loaded?
I wonder if Bobby should put the take sign on……
By Huh????
July 2, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Deed to the Braves is being passed to the Braves.
This is ownership, folks.
By Jeff321
July 2, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
What’s going on with McCann? Been hanging out with Frenchy too much? I mean, he just popped the second pitch he saw up into short left with the bases loaded.. Whatever happened to working the count?
By Del
July 2, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Oh man, it’s going to ba a long-lomg-long season !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
OK, I have HAD IT!!
Take some freakin’ pitches!! My GOSH! What is UP with you??
I thought Campillo liked Corky! Why does Bobby suddenly hate Corky? SHEESH!
So that’s .274 with RISP for the Braves (literally) everyday catcher…
By Don
July 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Sorry ccrider, I gave up 2 weeks ago. This team doesn’t have it, like the last 2. Best we do by year end is .500.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Stunning how similar this game is to last night’s for the first three innings.
By Mike
July 2, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Just got home, and I’m not one bit surprised to see whats going on. This team can’t get out of its own way. Adam eaton blows…u gotta be kidding me.
By supa
July 2, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Tex is officially on the table
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Anyone notice that McCann is in a bit of an RISP drought himself? He’s been up an awful lot lately, particularly with Tex either walked or intentionally passed in front of him, and coming up empty. I feel like he’s gotta be 0-for-10 of his last RISP opportunities, or maybe 1-for-10.
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
Flange1
I am not up on trading Hanson either. That is just what I think it would take to get Bay.
For some reason, people think we can get Bay without giving up Hanson. Not saying Lew feels this way, but I feel like a couple other bloggers think we can throw Lillibridge, Jones and a Rome lefty for the guy. Not going to happen.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Keylargo. It’s been kinda hard lately…
Why does he pick now—as we approach the time when All-Star rosters are chosen—to go into a “funk”?
By Jeff
July 2, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Once again, the same old story against the Phillies. Already down four. They waste a bases loaded situation with McCann jumping on the second pitch. How about a line drive to score two? And wtf is Chris Coste? This guy along with Victorino kills the Braves. Throw in Ryan Howard as well. If Howard does not play the Braves, he is an average(ok maybe thats a stretch) player. I cannot fathom how the Braves cannot jump on mediocre pithcers. Adam freakin Eaton. This guy is awful pure and simple. And what can you say about Franceour? I mean this is sad. Rollins is up now with a runner at second after a perfect sacrifice. What do you bet he scores? Oops no he walks.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Jeff321 What’s going on with McCann?
He’s playing too much. But I don’t see what that has to do with his new-found fascination with the second pitch.
By Canuckbravesfan
July 2, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
.238
By flange1
July 2, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
You are spot on.
I would love to hear what the Pirates are asking for Bay and what the Royals want for Greinke.
I think folks would drop their teeth if they heard it.
By Jeff
July 2, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Nice at bats for KJ and Franceour. Kotsay just popped up for a one two three inning. Two hits off of this bum. Mark it down, unless the Braves solve the art of hitting in the last five at bats, they will be swept in two series at home by a division rival. When is the last time that has happened?
By Trading Block
July 2, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Mark Teixiera- Teams might not pay big for 2 months, but you could get better than 2 draft picks.
Mark Kotsay- One B level prospect
Will Ohman- Teams will pay big for a left handed reliever. Two B prospects, or one very good prospect
Mike Gonzalez- See Will Ohman.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Burrell has 21 homers, or three more than all Braves outfielders combined.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
1st!!! First to offically make the doctor’s call: 2008 Atlanta Braves season is dead!!!ccrider
Actually, you’re about the 87th to make that call here.
By Lou Vales
July 2, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Do not fear—Smoltzie is in the clubhouse. Personally if I’m a MULTI, MULTI Millionaire who is 42 with a beautiful family who is rehabbing an arm injury, I might take said family, while still young, to Asia or Europe and experience the joys of our past with the looks of awe on their faces. I would not choose to sit in a dugout with a flailing team on the brink of Palookasville.
Now I realize Hampton had a great start against Rome—not the real one—-and that will cause a clamor similiar to that induced by Jolly St. Nick, but even John must know this is over!! Finito!!
John, Don’t end up like Favre. You are so much better than that.
By Jeff321
July 2, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
I’d like to know whats going on with Campillo’s pitching. It seems since the blister problem, he doesn’t have his really nasty stuff anymore. With that said, of course you can’t win without scoring.
By Edward
July 2, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
If this game DOESNT SPELL THAT THE BRAVES 2008 SEASON IS DONE, i dont know what will !!!!
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
How about THAT? Ruben Gotay is heard from, big-time.
His first career pinch-hit homer.
By News Flash!
July 2, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Last night,the Braves watched Burrell hit a long foul on a breaking pitch. He promptly parked the next breaking ball into the seats.
Tonight, Burrell hits another breaking ball into the seats.
Attention Bobby, McCann, Roger, Morton and Campillo!!!
Pat Burrell can hit a breaking ball a long way. Try something else.
By Braves20
July 2, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Wow. It takes Ruben Gotay to solve the unhittable Adam Eaton!
By ijonathan
July 2, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Blanco may not be a long term solution…but he sure does have the “look” and approach of a leadoff hitter. Too bad it took multiple injuries for our fearless leader to figure that out.
By Satan
July 2, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
You might not have noticed this yet but I revoked my deal with Mr. Campillo.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
As of this moment Francoeur is 8-for-60 (.133) with three walks, 16 strikeouts and three RBI in his past 17 games.
He has more errors (two) than extra-base hits (one) in that span.
By Trading Block
July 2, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Dave- Actually, you’re about the 87th to make that call here. Is that thought that far off? The Phillies are better than the Braves. Run differential shows that much. Cardinals aren’t slowing down either. So trade Tex, Gonzo, Kotsay and Ohman.
By Original Jon
July 2, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
==++++ Do you guys and gals realize that if there were any other teams in a playoff hunt and the hitting was this bad, that hitting coach would be fired almost instantly, but not here in Atlanta. No matter how bad the hitting is, TP will always have a job. I mean, its pretty sad when it seems like EVERYONE is pulling everything. TP needs to go. Lets get Chris Chambliss up from the minors to be the batting coach.
By ccrider
July 2, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
kirknga, I love the Braves and have been going to games since opening day the year they came to town, but let’s get realistic here. We have 2 minor leaguers(with promise) and a refugee from the Mexican league trying to keep us alive because we have lost 2 Hall of famers, a formally top starter and have had another injured starter(chuck james) that won 23 games the last 2 seasons go down for all oe most of the season. Chipper’s been great when healthy, Texiera has played well of late, Escober has played well when healthy and McCann and Kelly have hit well but their defense is lacking. LF, RF, and CF has been the worst in baseball productivity wise. The bench sucks!! The bullpen hasn’t had a closer until Gonzalez got healthy, except for a few games when Soriano felt he could pitch. We have had no dependable set-up men with the loss of Peter Moylan. This is an incomplete team and there are too many holes to fill: bullpen, No.1 starter, LF, RF and CF. So, unless we plan to gut our farm system in hopes we might be able to catch the other 3 teams ahead of us by at least 7 games after thursday’s lost to Hamels, it is time to plan for next year because this season isn’t able to be fixed. We don’t have the horse’s and we don’t want to give away our future for a small chance at catching the Phillies. Thus, GAME OVER for 2008
By Crazy Stats Katz
July 2, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
Screwy Louie Vales is back with his incoherent old fart babbling
By Canuckbravesfan
July 2, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Wow ! Phils have a back-up catcher hitting .321 compared to ours that has an average so low it doesn’t appear on the radar. Isn’t it about time we did something about that ?? McCann is getting worn down with all the work and we don’t have a competent major league back-up—-terrible blunder by Wren and Cox. No way can you defend the Brayan Pena move without an adequate replacement.
By Trading Block
July 2, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
If this game DOESNT SPELL THAT THE BRAVES 2008 SEASON IS DONE, i dont know what will !!!!
Nope. Braves face Hamels tomorrow. THAT will spell the end of the 2008 season.
By Beach Dawg
July 2, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Braves = T-O-A-S-T !!!!!!!!!!!! Let’s face it they don’t have the talent. Only because they are playing in the extremely weak NL East are they so close to first. As much as I hate to say it for 2008 they are T-O-A-S-T !! I know there is a lot of hope among the fans but I must remind everyone that hope is not a method.
By NCBravesFan
July 2, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Satan WTF? Did Chris Coste make a better offer or something?
By braves70
July 2, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
I wish we could all go down to the cafeteria with John Smoltz & Ron Gant. We could talk about the good old days instead of watching this malarkey.
By Sadbrave
July 2, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
The Braves are officially done……Thanks for flying the banner proudly for Atlanta being the worst professional sports city in the country. At least we can look forward to the Falcons and Hawks continuing our unrelenting misery. What did we do to deserve this flat Manhattan?
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Holy cow…He’s on base! Whoo-hoo!!
By ncscoots
July 2, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
I would not choose to sit in a dugout with a flailing team on the brink of Palookasville.
But, Lou…aren’t you the guy who got well financially in the 90’s and were able to retire early? But, instead of the Grand Eurpean Tour, you choose to jabberwock on an underpowered AM station in Podunk?
Somehow, I find Smoltz’s choice somewhat more, how shall I say it, believeable. That you would voice the thought of Smoltz making a different choice says worlds.
Though perhaps you are just attempting sarcasm or cynicism, in which case I’d suggest keeping the day job.
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe Boog and Joe are even talking about the Braves trading Mark Teixeira right now. Joe just said the Braves should ask for a couple of guys that are ready to play. Not sure why a club would do that for two months of a Boras client. You’re going to have to settle for prospects. But they very well could be good ones.
By Mike
July 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
No chance Jeff gets a hit here.
By Adam Eaton
July 2, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Don’t take me out! I own this guy!
By Buckwheat
July 2, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
OTAY! Home run for Gotay!
By manolo
July 2, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Homers last couple of weeks, :Gotay 2, Frenchy 0. we are really in deep trouble. We get runners on, but no hit and run, nothing. If youy have a fast runner at the top, but don’t run him, its useless to have one like that. Last year we had the same story when Harris was doing well, he will get on, and sit there praying, while Renteria grounded to several double plays that will have been prevented by sending the runner. How many times has Chipper then had to hit with the bases empty, instead of a runner at second???
By Mike
July 2, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Classic Francouer…seriously, this guy is a joke. He woke up this morning in the hole0-2.
By JJMB
July 2, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Is there any chance Francoeur can still go to Clemson? How does that work?
By Efrim
July 2, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Joe was speechless after Frenchy hit into a double play there. How is that progress? He didn’t strike out? I would of rather him struck out and let Kotsay and a pinch hitter have at it.
By Flanders
July 2, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Radio announcers just suggested Franceour go down to Richmond …
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Make it 2-for-20 for Francoeur with bases loaded. UNN-believable.
They had the air horn go off after that GIDP, as if to celebrate the RBI that wasn’t an RBI. I think maybe they were trying to drown out the boos (and there were plenty)
By LT-AA Blogger
July 2, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Ok, I’m even gonna say it. Franceour needs to be sat down until the All Star break is done. Let him have a shot in the 2nd half of the season.
By Deep Throat
July 2, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Stankoeur fails yet again.
The Phillies can send their opening day starter with a track record of being a #1 or #2 starter to the minors. The Tigers can send Dontrelle Willis to A-ball. But the Braves just can’t send Francoeur to Richmond. This is BS.
By Scott from Fairburn
July 2, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Brutal at bat by Frenchy … even when Andruw struggled he could pop it to right field … and wouldn’t you know that SportsSouth is playing The Lord of Parkview: The Legend of Jeff Francoeur
By Robin
July 2, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Sacks jacked w/ no outs = 1 run.
I don’t know how much more of this I can stand. :(
By supa
July 2, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Frenchy should have taken every pitch here. He strikes out twice and comes up with the bases juiced and does the only thing worse than a strike out - a DOUBLE PLAY!
Can it honestly get much worse for him?
Players like how Bobby Cox always sticks with his players to maintain their confidence. But the downside is that it often puts the team in too large of a hole to overcome. It’s happened the last 2 seasons and it’s true again this year.
Frenchy does not deserve a long-term deal. He’s overrated. You need more pop from a corner outfield position and he just doesn’t cut it.
By justdoit
July 2, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
only getting one run out of that is just pathetic .. cmmmonnnnnn
By Robroy1101
July 2, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Ugh………and it continues! It’s like a train wreck in slow motion. It’s not even possible that he can continue to come up in crucial situations like this. And then to not even get lucky sometimes……..this is “enter sentiment here”
By tbo
July 2, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
The only way that @#$^@&%^ Francouer could have hurt us any more would have been a triple play. I’m surprised he didn’t do that. What a joke this guy and the Braves are.
By Why Us
July 2, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
GOTAY home run, freakin’ Gotay! Now bases loaded, no outs, head on!
Maybe it’s the apocalypse now. Maybe an ending to the evil Phils!
By Jake
July 2, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Not Classic Francoeur, because the Francouer last two seasons before this one was clutch in situations like that, even when he may have struggled all night. It would be nice to see the “Classic” Francoeur though.
By Supes
July 2, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
OK…anyone who is in favor for Jeff to still be with the big league team tomorrow has zero arguments for it.
Just unbelievable. 2 K’s where he was obviously lost at the what he wanted/should be doing…and with the game momentum on the line…hits into a DP. Francouer is killing the Braves with his lack of production at the dish in 2008.
I’m sorry but 3 months of this garbage is beyond a fair amount of time for the jury to be out on him. He needs to be sent down to work on his mechanics, get his mental approach down again, and get some darn confidence there! Not up here at the expense of the big league team.
I would call up Josh Anderson immediately, and infuse a speed element to the team with him and Blanco in the lineup. Josh maybe a singles/doubles hitter but he’s a contact hitter who puts the ball in play and can at least leg out hits, etc. Francine can’t even do that anymore…17lbs of muscle my a&&
I was glad to hear that at least some of the fans at the Ted were booing Jeff. Serves him right for being such an unproductive player in 2008.
Jeff Francouer with the bases loaded = a .100 average! That’s pitcher like numbers folks…even Corky Miller would do better and that’s saying a lot with his robust .116
Someone please get on the phone and offer to pick up Jeff and his stuff at the Ted tonight and have them all delivered to AA ball. I’ll help pack the moving van!
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
By kirknga
July 2, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
ccrider
I agree with you.
I think the irrational exuberance over the 4 rookie starters will not last, in fact the air has started to leak from that bubble the last two games.
That’s why I would like to see everyone play in the position they weren’t meant to play at the start of the season. This minus Smotlz and Moylan of course.
I’m just calling b.s. on those who are saying the seasons over yet continue to to watch and comme.
By supa
July 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Phillies have to love how the Braves keep shooting themselves in the foot with runners on base and late in the ballgame.
Braves have a way of ending slumps…for other teams.
By rupert
July 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you hear anything about any plans for francouer? obviously they must think sitting him or sending him down would do more harm than sending him out there every night shaking his confidence and slowly turning all the fan base against him
By Flanders
July 2, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Corky Miller can hit better THAN Francoeur right now…my god is he a mess…this kid is toast…save him and SEND HIM TO RICHMOND, first time tomorrow!!!…what are they waiting for?…when he bats below the Mendoza Line?….Geez….for his own sake…get him to AAA and teach him BASIC hitting 101!
By Why Us
July 2, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
NEVERMIND!
In my excitement I forgot to notice it was JF coming up.
To quote McFann SHEESH!
I guess it truely is time to fold up the tent.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Nice play by McCann by the screen! We’re finding positives here!
By B
July 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Hey, if we keep scoring one run an inning and hold the phillies where they are we are right back in this thing.
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Man, as soon as that pitch was delivered to Frenchy, I said, “here comes the double play ball.” And I hate that I was right about that.
I love the guy, but how sad is it that I’m rooting for him to strike out or at least work for a walk rather than put the ball in play?
By prattvillenolzfan
July 2, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Pathetic….Absolutely pathetic….
JJMB…not a chance he can still go to Clemson…Why would they want him….
Seriously, he can..As long as he hasn’t enrolled in school he still has 4 years.
From 1996-1999, Chris Weinke played at Fla. State 10 years after graduating from high school. There was alot of controversy on him winning the heisman trophy because of his age…
DOB
Something I’ve noticed on TV tonight AND last night, is that when they show shots of Franceour going back to the dugout, No One is sitting by him
Am I reading too much into this, or has his struggles affected his relationship with teammates…
Once again, 0 outs, Bases loaded, hits into DP….If you are going to make an out, at least FLY OUT…
If Joe Simpson (and any armchair coach) can accurately see that Franceour is opening up his hips…Why doesn’t Cox/TP do anything about it…And if Jeff refuses to listen. Sit or Send his a55 down
By uga-brave
July 2, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
whats with all the facial hair? i thought bobby had a no beard policy?
note to francoeur the hockey playoff beard aint working, unless your looking to establish a new fan base on tenth street (not that there’s anything wrong with that)
By ccrider
July 2, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
That may be true DOB, but this time it’s true. Not enough talent and enough time to make up 7 games without going and getting relief help, big leftfield bat, a couple of better bench players and a top starter, which would require dipping into our best minor leaguers and Frank wren won’t do that not should he. The team was good enough in it’s original form, but that has been gone a long time. This team did well to hang around as long as it did and is to be commended for that!
By Supes
July 2, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
I stand corrected.
Have Corky Miller carry the bags, and drive Jeff to the minors. I think the fans here will chip in and help with the rental van!
That way you hit 2 birds with 1 stone.
Bring up Clint Sammons and Josh Anderson.
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
Put Francine in “Jail”…aka AA ball where he played before he got called up the first time.
By geauxbraves2000
July 2, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
What can you say that hasn’t already been said?
Oh well.
Geaux Braves!!
By Robroy1101
July 2, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Looks like we are set up for a nice rally in the 8th for JF to ruin again.
By braves70
July 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Now we get Boyer to finish off a miserable evening.
By Greg
July 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
It looks like Tex is going to be traded at the deadline. Might I suggest we go for speed and bats, not arms. We should be able to get a load for him.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 2, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Hey McFann
Hate to say this, but if your boy keeps struggling, I wouldn’t be surprised to Not see him make the All-Star game…
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve it, I think he does, but he’s not exactly helping his cause….
By ryan
July 2, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
fire cox phillies moving HAMELS up for thursday lets move jj to friday so he can win otherwise phillies win 2-0
By ncscoots
July 2, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Frankly, even Francoeur might be relieved to be sent down. Who knows? He’s probably as messed up in his head as he has been in his short life, and he doesn’t have enough experience to fall back on and keep his confidence up.
Freudian babble, I guess. But the kid needs help of some kind, and maybe being out of the spotlight for a while might be it.
By Lew
July 2, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t see Francoeur breaking out of this slump with his wide Andruw Jones stance. When will someone realize that his hips are opening up and pushing his butt straight back when he swings? Hell, Joe Simpson noticed it and commented this evening. All he needs is to either go to the damn toe tap or just stride and it will eliminate the hips opening. If I can figure this out, I wonder why the Braves and Frenchy haven’t.
By JEB
July 2, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
I guess we need to just plan on winning against someone else and let someone else beat the Phils. We’ve got a better chance that way to move up in standings. Every time we play the Phils we take our biggest blows in the standings.
By Confucius
July 2, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Confucius say:
When team have no heart, head must be to blame.
By 6th grade graduate student
July 2, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
whats with all the facial hair? i thought bobby had a no beard policy?
Perhaps trying to hide their faces because no one can spot them in public and know they are a Braves player. I know I would if I was on this team. Bobby might try sporting one.
By uga-brave
July 2, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
lew,
trying to correct something he has done all his life aint easy, couple that with the modest success he had makes it even harder.
those poor fudamentals are engrianed muscle memory at this point.
think about trying to relearn a golf swing after you have played for 15 years, easier said then done.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 2, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
I know the point has already been made, but if an announcer who isn’t paid to coach can observe these problems with “Benchy’s” stance, why can’t the guys who DO get paid to coach??
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
uga-brave, I think you have Bobby Cox confused with George Steinbrenner. No “no beard policy” here. McCann and Kotsay have had them all season.
By braves70
July 2, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Tex to the Yankees for any 4 of the following:
Justin Christian – OF Brett Gardner – OF Juan Miranda – 1B Matt Carson – OF Austin Jackson - OF J.B. Cox – RP David Robertson – RP Ian Kennedy – SP Jason Jones – SP Ian Kennedy – SP Jeffrey Karstens – SP Daniel McCutcheon – SP Chase Wright – SP Eric Hacker - SP
Let’s do it.
By Alice In Wonderland
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
The Braves should change their team name to the Atlanta Tinmen.
They have no heart.
By KC
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
At this point, I think Francoeur does need to work out his swing at Richmond.
He has officially taken over for Andruw as the ultimate rally-killer.
Pathetic. The Braves are, in all likelihood, going to have to try and scratch out a win tomorrow against Hamels just to avoid another sweep.
Beyond pathetic.
By Bill
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Let the bid’s begin. It looks more every day that they will be sellers’s. If they lose tomorrow that’s to much to overcome. Knowing how the Braves do business, they will be trading off prospects. Braves management needs to change the type of team that can win. They need a more balance line-up with speed. The game is changing because of the ‘roid problems.
By Deep Throat
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
It just defies the laws of physics how much Francoeur sucks. He actually threatens to collapse in upon himself and form a black hole.
By Lew
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Damn-He used the toe tap and STILL managed to bend at the waist and stick his butt straight back. I didn’t think it was even physically possible to do it.
By Robroy1101
July 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
It sure would be nice if our Blind Squirrel would find a Nut!
By Supes
July 2, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Have a game Jeff…0 for 4 with 3 K’s and a DP with the bases jacked!
Meanwhile, Chipper Jones can hit a HR with one good leg. Way to go Chipper!!!
FREE JOSH ANDESON…Send down Jeff Francouer, aka Stenchy, aka 6-4-3
Maybe more fans booing FRANCINE will help get the msg across to Bobby and Frank Wren! Yeah, no RBI siren in the 8th to drown out the booing!
By Randy S
July 2, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Dude: You see which way you’re pointing? You see that place? Do you see the sign, “Rib Tips”? Well, f**k that, you don’t want to go that way.
Clark: I wonder if these guys know The Commodores.
Dude: You go half a block down the street…and you’ll see a Torino with no wheels on it. Inside that Torino is my cousin, Jackie. Tell him that you’re my boy, and that you’re lost. He’ll make sure you get where you’re going. You don’t want to know from me. I’m not from this neighborhood. I’m from the west side of Chicago, here on vacation.
Clark: Thanks a lot. You’ve been a great help
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
prattvillenolzfan—
I know! I know!
I mean…what the heck happened?
By bernie
July 2, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Looks like Frenchy is being set up for failure. He needs a lot of time off to get back in the game. Please Bobby!
By NO MORE BOBBY
July 2, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Im done wasting my summer away on these clowns we call the Atlanta Braves. David I think your a great writer and some of you guys have made me laugh and forget about how bad its been this year. But Im done with it before I wear out my keypad night after night with frustration. See ya in 2009 suckas!!! (maybe just maybe Cox will retire before that - PLEASE GOD).
GO CUBS!!
By Why Us
July 2, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Boyer out for 2nd inning. Taking bets?
How many runs? 3, 4 ?
By Lew
July 2, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
UGABrave-I hear you Dude, but he isn’t even using the same bad mechanics-he invented NEW bad mechanics.
Let’s hear it for Ugga 6 who died the other day. The Dude was mascot for an awful lot of Dawg wins. Damn Fine Dawg.
By rupert
July 2, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
the boo’s continue to roar for francouer, to say he is lost at the plate would be an insult to any hitter that has been lost, since he is apparently listening to any and everyone, i got an idea, DON’T PULL OFF THE DAMN BALL!! when your hips fly open you can’t hit any pitch but an off-speed pitch left on the inside, fastball in you might foul it off, anything else your reaching for, can’t even get to the outside pitch, that’s not rocket science, if he’d keep his shoulder and hips closed and try to drive the ball up the middle and to right he’d be able to get to more pitches and start squaring a few up, you can then adjust to the inside pitch and still hit it hard, baseball 101
By A-ville Ranger
July 2, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
I just turned to Fox Sports,why are they replaying last night’s game ?
By jason
July 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
what to do ? what to do ? this is what happens when you trade, trade, trade for a pennant and no shot at a world series.tjis is what happens when you don’t prepare for the future, and play for the now. I have been living in texas for some time, and I have followed the Spurs.Yes i still love my hawks. It was apperent this year that the Spurs will soon go through what the braves are now going through.Winning seaesons are fine , great.BUT, if you are not preparing for the future; you will end up , well where the braves are.Besides McCann, what position player has the braves developed since; I don’t know, the Jones crew. what Pitcher have they developed; starter or reliever, since well, millwood.(that still plays for the braves? there is your answer.Until the scouting dept. figures out who to keep, who to trade it will be the same old, same old. Dye gone, schmidt gone, wainright gone, hell even laroche gone. everyone blames cox, hea has earned his share, but what about not only Wren, but Scherlholz, and the entire scouting dept. No, we are no longer one of the big market clubs. we have to develope players; not for only trades, but for use by the parent club. how hard is it ? Florida does it every freakin year.cle, does it.
By Robroy
July 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Can anybody remember Boyer coming out for a 2nd inning and it turning out good for the Bravos?
By Robin
July 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
More late-game runs by the Phils. Unbelievable! Wait…………maybe not. Sheeesh!
:switches to Rays & Sawx :
By Robert S
July 2, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
I live down here in Mobile and was listening to the game on XM at the time that Frenchy killed yet another rally.
After that point, Skip Caray finally spoke up and said, in essence:
I’m not saying this as a punishment for Jeff, but I’m saying it and it needs to be said - would it be so awful if he was optioned to Richmond so he could find himself?
To which Pete Van Weiren readily agreed, not as a punishment, just so he can get his head clear.
How is it that virtually everyone sees what the Braves brass doesn’t? Patience can only get you so far, and he’s killing us.
So is our bullpen tonight. Whoops - Ring gives up two more runs. Awful. Just awful……
By Braveheart
July 2, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Are they stealing up 7-3? Give him the effin’ bullhorns, McCann. Bullhorns. Bean the suckers. You ain’t coming back in this one.
By A-ville Ranger
July 2, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeff would welcome being sent to the minors for a spell.This is really hard to watch,the guy is lost at the plate.
By uga-brave
July 2, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
lew,
damn fine dawg, heres to uga VII much success. less then 60 days to kickoff.
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Wow, one more late Philly run and it’s nearly a carbon copy of last night’s game. I’m almost rooting for it at this point. It’s not like the Braves have any comeback mojo this season. I need my 1991 time machine.
By Britt
July 2, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
I love the braves, but i’ve seen this game before. I turning to the Red Sox and Rays game on ESPN. Rays remind me a little of the 91’ Braves.
By Frenchy's Mechs
July 2, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Frenchy has always had bad mechanics! ugabrave is right. The question is, why do you sign players with bad mechanics and continue to let them keep those bad mechanics? You either see something that tells you that you can fix their swing or you don’t draft them in the first place!
Even when Frenchy wasn’t enduring the mother of all slumps, he has been totally dependant on everything going just right to hit. The guy has always had more holes in his swing than swiss cheese!
Screw drafting athletes! Draft baseball players!
By LT-AA Blogger
July 2, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Towell meet Ring (pardon the pun).
Groundhog day…… the whole season is groundhog day over and over and over.
I should be studying some 16th century French (pardon the pun) poetry.
By McFann©
July 2, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
NO MORE BOBBY GO CUBS!!
Hey now…
By rob
July 2, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
This team is as bad as the Nationals. There is nothing they do well. They can’t win late, early or in the middle. This season is over, and so should be everyone’s interest.
By Lee in S GA
July 2, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Folks I have to admit, a 1 run loss would look like an overall improvmment these days. Frenchy gotta go down to Richmond; even Anderson would be more productive and that is saying a mouthful. If not he may never recover from all of this.
By GeorgetownKid
July 2, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
I feel bad for Francoeur.
He seems like a genuinely good guy and he grew up a Braves fan, which means is emotionally invested (like all of us are).
The guy has absurd talent, so I don’t know what is wrong with him. He should be (and eventually will be) a solid .280 hitter with 25HR, and, unfortunately, that is what we need him to be right now.
If someone whom you counted on to be a core-piece of your offense fails so terribly, your offense is going to stink.
Imagine how terrible the San Antonio Spurs would be if Manu Ginobili shot 29% from the floor and averaged 6 points per game and had twice and many turnovers and assists. That is the basketball equivalent of our Francoeur phenomena.
By Robin
July 2, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Just back from the Rays & Sawx - Rays had the sacks jacked - no outs - down by two, get a walk, a double …
They’re up 5-4. :eek: So, that’s how it’s done?
By NCBravesFan
July 2, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger Couldn’t agree more. He looks really lost. I feel for the guy, and hope he gets it together soon.
By Those Idiots
July 2, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
f*** the stupid f*** braves. everytime they get f*** close, Blaine f*** Boyer or some other prick gives up runs to put it out of reach. and get f*** stupid suckass francouer the hell off the team. f*** those idiots!
By KyleH
July 2, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Thought Id bring up another issue that will never die. I think the Braves have to sign Tex or if its impossible get something out of him(prefferably trade over draftpicks) I went over the braves payroll and most of their offense is still young and arbitration eligible and their picthing is getting younger. Theyre gonna clear some money from Hampton, and probably Glavine, and I hope Smoltz can come back. Hampton alone gives us enough to win Tex. (Unless NY must have him and spends 30M, but this time i actually doubt they will.) were paying Tex 12.5M this year and hampton is making 15M this year. Together thats more than enough. And as someone said before we shoudl forward the bulk of Texs contract into the first 3 or 4 yrs. While the young braves are arbitration eleigible and cheap(both pitching and offfense) Then when we have to pay these guys most of texs contract will be over with. I would take Tex over any firstbaseman in the league. He is a switch hitting power hitter who can carry a team(I mean this is a bad year for him.)and provides goldglove defense. He has saved many runs with his defense. I think we lost too much in aquiring him to let him just walk away so signing him is a must.Id say give a him a 5or6 yr deal. Just keep him in Atlanta. I never want to see a braves lineup where there is no Tex or Chipper.
By David O'Brien
July 2, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Holy … wow. That ball is 10 feet to the left, and we have a grand slam and tie game.
By Deep Throat
July 2, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman says,
“One primary reason that the Braves haven’t shipped Francoeur back to the Minors is the potential backlash they might receive from their fans, who have remained faithful to No. 7, despite the fact that he entered Wednesday night’s game against the Phillies hitting just .239 with a .294 on-base percentage and .383 slugging percentage.”
WHAT A FARCE!
By A-ville Ranger
July 2, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Like I’ve pointed out before,it doesn’t seem to matter who it is or what they’re doing,if it’s critical, they’ll fail to deliver.
By jason
July 2, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
G’town kid, exactly , that is why the lakers beat the spurs in the playoffs. atl least ginobli has some talent. Francouer apparently does not. I f he did; he might could make an adjustment every freakin once in a while.
By Original Jon
July 2, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
A strikeout with the bases loaded, and he thinks he is worth 20 million a year????? Give me a break, we can pay a minor leaguer less than that to strike out with the bases loaded.
By TNJeff
July 2, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Great to have Kotsay back - this team is inspired!
Consistent - late games Tex chokes as good as the rest of these mental midget braves - apologies to midgets I may have offended for comparisons to these losers
Bradley is an idiot
By Robin
July 2, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I thought the season had turned the corner on Tex’s loud foul.
Then get the air sucked out on Lidge’s curveball.
@#$%$#@
By jason
July 2, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
G’town kid, exactly , that is why the lakers beat the spurs in the playoffs. atl least ginobli has some talent. Francouer apparently does not. I f he did; he might could make an adjustment every freakin once in a while. You know maybe he could stand up there with a goofy a* smile like Andruw, the it will be like ol’ andy never left.
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Can I just say that if 10 years go by before I hear that inane “I’m gonna knock one out” song, that would be too soon.
By Supes
July 2, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Story of 2008 Braves. They tease you, and “stay in the game” until the end…and TEX swong at ball 4 with the sacks packed to K for the last out of the game. Great battle between TEX and Lidge, that first pitch…darn, Braves have been snake bitten here in 2008. I guess when things go wrong…it takes a lot to stop the madness.
SEND FRANCINE packing!
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Dogpile on Frenchy!
By prattvillenolzfan
July 2, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Georgetown Kid
Franceour grew up in Atlanta….
That does not mean he was a Braves fan
Franceour has said on more that one occasion he grew up a Red Sox fan (his family is from the Boston area and still has alot of family up there….)
I may be mistaken, but I don’t think he was really that big a Braves fan….
He became a Braves fan when sportsouth started putting the stupid commercials on TV plugging their special…..
By jed
July 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
no, i dont understand why the braves refuse to send a player down—even for a short time—to take the pressure off and get their swing back. apparently we learned nothing from the andruw debacle last season. (at least andruw had defense on his side; this situation with JF is just unjustifiable, and i say that with empathy toward JF.)
but on the bright side, how bout them rays? 6 runs in the 7th! bring on the sweep—gotta love it.
By Run Heap Run
July 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Ouch what a heartbreaker. Even moreso because he missed the walk off grand slam by a hook.
By Canuckbravesfan
July 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
.236 If Francoeur was a stock, we should short-sell him, as the bottom seems nowhere in sight.
By TNJeff
July 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Forget 10 feet to the left - how many games would we have won if Frenchy was figuring out his swing & his defense in Triple A?
Any chance Kotsay can go back to rehab - his back may be better but his swing needs rehab - this guy pops up more than Marcus Giles (who is out of baseball I believe)
By He Said What?
July 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Bowman said what????
If that is true, then it shows that Braves management is not about winning. They are about selling tickets, beer, dogs and Francouer jerseys!
By Joebrave
July 2, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Okaaaaay!!!I said it in the Winter,and now I will say it again!!This Team the way it is constructed now is a f%ck*8g JOKE!!! Just what in the blue he11 was the Idiot upstairs thinking when Old Man Glavine was handed 8 million????? and what of a decent back up option at 3rd when Hoss gets hurt???? Why didn’t that Dumb sumbitch Wren trade OL Tex for a boat load???? now you get only half of what J.S. gave up!!! let’s see,No on Santana,No on at trade with the Angels!! Hmmmmm. sounds like a Dumb@ss is running this team!!! I said it then,I’ll say it Now John Schuerholz turned this Team into the K.C. Royals of the N.L. the Philthies are Kicking our Arses,and I don’t like it one goshdamned bit!!!! Ryan Fat@ss at first base,Chase Ugly, and that pesky little Pi$$ant Shane Victorhino!!! You have got to be JOKING!!!! Hey Yo BRAVES GROW A SACK,GET SOME BALLS,AND LOSE THAT GUTLESS ARROGANCE, do all of us a favor and SHOW UP FOR WORK FREAKIN JERKS!!!!!
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I don’t expect you to answer this, and this is out of sheer frustration. The inquiring fan is curious: Does Frenchy stay with the Major League club and go into the lineup every day because Bobby refuses to sit him or ask Wren to send him down or is Wren incapable of demoting him? Or are they both still dazzled by the guy’s potential and oblivious to his performance?
Wren’s ultimately responsible for the makeup of the roster but Bobby surely has some input. Who’s afraid to make a change?
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
@ DOB, 10:22 pm. That’s actually a workable metaphor. Move this whole SEASON just 10 feet to the left and we’re over .500 and leading the division.
I think this team is cursed. What else could go wrong? (WAIT! Don’t answer that.)
By Hit Heap Hit
July 2, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
I thought Marcus played for the Rockies? Well, that’s what the last story about him (and the hookers) I read said.
By tnbrave
July 2, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
After tonights debacle, it seems that Wren should be a seller instead of a buyer, It is appearent that Francouer has forgotten how to hit and the often clutch McCann has cooled off a bit. If in fact the braves are pondering sending Frenchie back to the minors, his replacement wouldn’t be capable of helping turn around this funk. The young pitching has worked, but in do or die games it seems we’ve died instead of done. Without a healthy Smoltz or Glavine, a division title is out of the question, and the braves are so far out of the wild card, thats not even realistic goal. Maybe they will make some changes clear some cap room and start building for next year.
By tnbrave
July 2, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
After tonights debacle, it seems that Wren should be a seller instead of a buyer, It is appearent that Francouer has forgotten how to hit and the often clutch McCann has cooled off a bit. If in fact the braves are pondering sending Frenchie back to the minors, his replacement wouldn’t be capable of helping turn around this funk. The young pitching has worked, but in do or die games it seems we’ve died instead of done. Without a healthy Smoltz or Glavine, a division title is out of the question, and the braves are so far out of the wild card, thats not even realistic goal. Maybe they will make some changes clear some cap room and start building for next year.
By TNJeff
July 2, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
unlike idiot Bradley who is still convinced the Braves have turned the corner - i predicted the braves would get swept by the struggling phillies.
games aren’t even close
why don’t cox just start the game with bennett then boyer and or acosta & ohman and bring the starting pitcher in late after the game is over.
I hope braves fans arent voting for anyone other than chipper for the all-star team . this team is embarrasing
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
BTW, if Bowman’s statement accurately reflects the views of management, then they’ll be selling a lot fewer tickets, hot dogs, beer and everything else pretty soon.
Problem solved.
By Hit Heap Hit
July 2, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Don’t you dare say “What else could go wrong”. Like, ever.
By Supes
July 2, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
That Bowman comment is a joke!
Any fan who has followed this team in 2008 would understand the need for Jeff to be optioned to the minors to work on his game there! If they can’t…then let them walk away and not go to the TED. Again, not one player is more important than the team.
Sending Jeff down is going to help him a lot more and put pressure off, so he can figure it out without hurting the big league team with his abismal numbers at the dish in 2008.
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
SEND FRANCINE AWAY!
By fastasballs
July 2, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
“One primary reason that the Braves haven’t shipped Francoeur back to the Minors is the potential backlash they might receive from their fans, who have remained faithful to No. 7, despite the fact that he entered Wednesday night’s game against the Phillies hitting just .239 with a .294 on-base percentage and .383 slugging percentage.”
Backlash from the fans, huh? Last time I checked we the fans didn’t get paid to win games, however we the fans do pay a lot of money for tickets, over priced food at Turner Field, TV packages just to watch the games, & team gear.
The only thing we expect is to see the best product on the field that the Braves can provide. I’m tired of watching a guy who couldn’t hit high school pitching at the moment continue to kill this team.
This team probably isn’t going to win the division. The past two nights have about summed up the entire season. Too many injuries & too many missed opportunities have killed this team.
If not for the fans or the team, send him down for his own good. He’s talented & young so the odds are he can find himself, but he’s never going to while in Atlanta & we shouldn’t have to watch a guy help destroy a team while trying to find himself. That’s what the minors are for. Other teams understand that, why not the Braves?
By JEB
July 2, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox will always make the right decisions, but he is slow about doing it.
Bobby will wait until even the player knows the change (whatever it is) is the best thing for themselves and the team. When BC makes the change, then the player is in agreement and ready to accept the change. (This is why these guys love BC - he hangs in there wanting the best for them).
Before BC sends Frenchy down (to minors) - it will have to come to a point that Frenchy thinks it is the best thing for him and the team.
Hopefully, Frenchy is humble (has been humbled)enough to see he needs to go down to the minors at this time. His swing is a mess right now - he is a mess mentally also!
By Joebrave
July 2, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
Now for the Atlanta Homer,Jeff (I can’t hit a damn lick Francouer!!! You People Please stop,Just Quit making Excuses for this @sshole,I don’t care if he is A GOlDEN HOMEBOY,He Plain @ssed SUCKS,this Guy Blows,Ever since He married that Hot Little Tart, This Dang Kid ain’t done Squat,His Ol Lady is at Fault here,I bet she’s his First!! that’s Why His @ss ain’t performing!!! Trade the Dirtbag to Cleveland!!!Maybe a cold winter shower will do Him some Good!!!!!
By BravesFanInRockies
July 2, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
BTW, the Lastros just DFA’d Oscar Villareal. Dang. Just before Houston comes to town …
By Braves Management
July 2, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
For anyone on the fence about this team and management’s desire to field a winning club, refer to Mark Bowman’s story about the Braves mulling the option of sending Francouer to Richmond to get straightened out.
It is managment’s contention that the fans are still behind Frenchy and that a move to Richmond might be met with a fan rebellion (at least something similar)
Do any of you folks ever go to games at the Ted? Go into the clubhouse store or any of the stands around the park that sell jersey’s etc. Damn, you can hardly find anything but Francouer stuff! Ever try to find a McCann jersey/shirt or Escobar jersy/shirt for a kid? Hard to find. Want a Francouer jersey or shirt? No problem! They have hundreds of them! Management annointed him the golden boy! The Atlanta press did the same! The golden boy has turned tin and now the Ted (and the online and mail order outlets) are stuck with all this Frenchy merchandise.
It’s not the fans who don’t want to see Frenchy in Richmond. Read the blog for chrice sake! It’s the Braves front office! They can’t stand the thought of all that merchandise, all the promos, all the “Frenchy is God” stuff all over Atlanta going to waste!
Braves management don’t care about providing us a winning team, they only care about selling and cramming their glory boys down our throats hoping we’ll keep buying it! Literally!
Sorry I sound bitter, but the Bowman story just shows what Braves management is all about. I suspected as much, but didn’t want to believe it until I read the story.
By uga-brave
July 2, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
pretty good at bat by tex there, beech all you want but we had seven frickin hits.
we had the bases loaded three times and plated one run and that came because of a double play, couple that with two solo dingers and you have the braves season in a microcosm.
cant believe you guys arent starting to call out wren. i said all winter that our outfield would be our undoing.
we are witnessing the worst braves offensive outfield in 30 years.
to think francoeur was going to hit 35 homeruns was a farce. to think kotsay would stay healthy all year was not realistic, and diaz is a fourth outfielder.
francoeur and diaz both had bad spring camps and still nothing was done.
note to frank wren, hope is not a winning strategy.
By Joebrave
July 2, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
And with this GUTLESS performance,JoeBraveBids You all Adieu, til next Year Adios,Braves Huh???More like Squaws!!!
By kirknga
July 2, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Well we had our chance and our thrill at the end of the game.
Again, just enough to really really break your heart!
Wow, we have 9 more games against these guys! Tell me again why it’s such a good idea to play the teams in your division more?
I think it has been shown which is the better team. I guess we could be a much improved team by the next time we see them.
By tiffany elizabeth
July 2, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
Hi…My name is like, you know Tiffany and I was reading all of these mean people making fun of my Hero..Well, my favorite male hero besides Hannah..
Actually he is my 4th favorite male hero behind the Jonas Brothers but like you know he is like really wow…just awesome.
My daddy is like you know really rich and we have season tickets behind the Braves bench, but we only go to just a few games, but when we go, I wear my favorite #7 jersey.
Alot of you really mean people are saying Jeffy is not any good, well that’s not true. He is Awesome Don’t you people remember what he did in high school..We have a house in Sugarloaf (did I tell you my daddy was rich) and all of my friends in middle school would be like really bummed out if he was to go to Richville or some northern city like that….
All of my friends got with our daddy’s ( did I tell you my daddy and all of my friends daddy’s are really rich) and our daddy’s told some guy named Mr. Wren that if he made our hero jeffy go play in Missisipe or Richville, then they will quit going to the Braves games…
Oh yeah, to that Mcfann girl…You think you are really something don’t you….Everybody knows that Jeffy was like way better that Brian was back in high school….He is better looking, faster, and his beard looks better than McCann’s does….Don’t you know that Jeffy is just alot cooler than Brian is…
All of you mean people just need to leave Jeffy alone…Our daddy’s will make sure that Jeffy is not going anywhere…He can do whatever he wants to do, and does not have to listen to anybody just because he is Jeff Franceour. He is god to all of us 13 year olds in gwinnett county….remember, our daddys will take care of it, and there’s nothing you can do about it…So there….Ha Ha
By Supes
July 2, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
fastballs
*This team probably isn’t going to win the division. The past two nights have about summed up the entire season. Too many injuries & too many missed opportunities have killed this team.
If not for the fans or the team, send him down for his own good. He’s talented & young so the odds are he can find himself, but he’s never going to while in Atlanta & we shouldn’t have to watch a guy help destroy a team while trying to find himself. That’s what the minors are for. Other teams understand that, why not the Braves?*
Best post in the blog for the night. Completely agree, and it’s beyond trying to figure out what the Braves organization (Wren, Shuerholtz and Cox) are thinking!
By Lou Vales
July 2, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Dear Reid in Eav, Great Post!!
Or how about, change the result of 2 out of 14 unmitigated postseason disasters and history will not look back at this being the most underachieving franchise in sports history for a near 20 year interval.
By The Truth
July 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Contact lens…new haircut…grown a beard…changed up the batting stance…used a pitcher’s bat in a game…and after all of that we have gotten the same results with Frenchy’s dead bat. I’m not going to blame tonights lost on him because its gotten tiring doing that over and over again, but seriously the Braves organization has to see it now. Just as Joe Simpson and Uub said tonight…its time to sit the man for at least three games or so. Forget the daily tweaking because none of that is working…it clear that something else is going on inside Frenchy’s head.
Other then that all I have to say is that I hope the Braves hitters (excluding Chipper) got a lesson on how to approach the game at the plate tonight. Don’t know how many times I seen Philly batters come up tonight be it Howards homer, or Chase Utley driving the ball down the left line…these guys are hitting the ball where its pitched and going the other way. They’re not trying to do to much with every pitch. If the Braves batters could finally learn that approach then MAYBE they will starting winning these type of games.
Lastly, did anyone besides me notice those horrible bullpen stats we’ve had late in ball games against the Phillies. This Braves team is nothing but a laugher, I’ve had more laughs watching the Braves this year then the Hawks…I never thought I would see the day that happened.
By Tony Almeida
July 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
How sad is this? Willie Randolph gets fired for mediocrity, while Bobby Cox gets rewarded for it….unreal.
By RAR
July 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
This team looks more like the 1989 last place Braves and I think it is now time to say “Wait until next year”. It appears that the starting pitching is collapsing and the hitters can’t buy a hit with RISP.
How much longer are the Braves going to let Francouer continue his death spiral?? This is ugly.
Tonights outfield had 1 hit, 5 strikeouts and left 8 RISP, GOOD GRIEF!!
My new team is the Tampa Bay Rays!!!
By Tony Almeida
July 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
How sad is this? Willie Randolph gets fired for mediocrity, while Bobby Cox gets rewarded for it….unreal.
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 2, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
I told yall at 6:07 that Frenchy’s new nickname was “Jughead” and he continues to bear me out
By tiffany elizabeth
July 2, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, one more thing to Mr. DOB…
If you like wanted more people like me to really read your blog, why don’t you get a myspace page, and also, Nobody I know listens to that weird music you put the words to on the blog
If you wanted your blog to be like way more cooler, put some Hannah Montana, Jonas Brothers, or Taylor Swift lyrics up on your blog…They are way more popular that the Drive-by-Trucker….I assume with a name like that, it must be that ghetto rap music..you know, drive-by-shootings..my daddy won’t let me listen to that kind of music.
By Reid in EAV
July 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the tips on Rays-Sox, folks. (Rays hung on for the win, 7-6, and with it the sweep.) I think I have a horse to back through the playoffs. At this rate it sure ain’t gonna be the Bravos.
Could be worse, though. I was there in 1988, ‘89 and ‘90.
By don
July 2, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
Three strikeouts and hitting into a double play will not feed the bull dog. In fact it will not feed the dead bull dawg. (Sorry fellow UGA fans.)
By Robert S
July 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
I read the Bowman article with incredulity. Jeff was popular when he was producing for this team, and not killing rallies.
Perhaps the Braves management are too deaf to hear the voluminous “boos” every time he strikes out or grounds into a double play with runners on - as he did so splendidly tonight.
The boos are saying to him, “you’re better than this.” To me, they also mean, “go down and get yourself figured out. If Ron Gant had to do it, if Dontrelle Willis had to do it, and if Brett Myers is doing it now, why are you immune to playing in front of 3,000 folks in Richmond so you can take the pressure off yourself and get back to “see ball, hit ball” as opposed to “see ball, flail wildly, and get booed with bat in hand walking towards the dugout.”
This may be a silly question, but seriously - are the management really interested in winning, or in selling a “brand?” It’s getting awful hard to tell nowadays, if there’s any validity to Bowman’s article…….
By LUCAS Land
July 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
After another well played game, I hope the little girlies are washing their panties by now. I tell you I have had enough. Make a trade, send somebody down to the minors, do something, start a freakin’ fight with one another in the dugout or something.
By Dawgsfan1990
July 2, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
This may be incredibly naive of me, but couldn’t FW just give old Tex a call over the all-star break and say “Look man, we want you, Atlanta wants you, we’d love to have you here for the long-haul, but you have to understand we have to do what’s best for our club too. Sooooo, taking that into consideration, whats your plan for after 2008? Do we have a shot to sign you? Is it going to be straight-up who ponies up the most cash or are you comfortable enough here in the ATL to work with us a little bit?
Maybe Teixeira lies and says “You’ve got as good or better a shot than any other team!” and then bolts after the season. Maybe he says “I like it here but I want to be a $20 million a year Oriole in my heart of hearts.” Heck he might even say “errrr well I dunno there F-Dub.” It just seems to me that Tex is worried about his stats and not much else, and the Braves are kinda clueless as to what his plans might be. Of course, they probably wouldnt make it public if they do know anyway. The point here is, if Tex isn’t going to sign here next year as the media’s already rampant speculation seems to suggest, doesn’t the front office HAVE to move him so they get something in return? The NL East is so weak this year, if the Braves make a run at it which yes there is still time to do so, they probably have as good a shot to do it with Thorman at first base as Teixeira for the 2nd half. French is bound to pick it up after the break (he can’t do much worse…I think Smoltz said it best when he said that about this being Frenchy’s first prolonged slump ever and every player has to go through it once in order to learn to deal with it…i just wish he’d hurry up, but i digress). Granted Teixeira can carry his team on his back for weeks at a time and is a special player and all but if he’s gonna walk they need to move him for something. If he will take $17 or so mil a year to stay here then they should get it done.
By bravos
July 2, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
This is the most embarrasing team i have seen in along time.They play with absolutely no heart at all.Note to stankouer the beard and muscle have not done a damn thing for you.Except make you look like your running with a bat stuck up your a* and that you just cant seem to find a razor.
By Dawg88
July 2, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
No more fairy tale articles about how its early or the Braves are still close despite this or that from Dave or Mark Bradley. This train wreck of a season is OVER!
Too mnay injuries, a struggling right fielder we thought we could count on, no closer, a stubborn manager, a hitting coach who sits at the other end of the dugout away from the players (Hmm!) and buckets of one run losses.
Sad…I as well as many thought this team had the maekup to win the division or more. But the ugly reality about the division race…its Over!
By BravesFan79
July 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Cant believe im being this positive right now but…………look at the Braves upcoming schedule… i think we can get back to .500 by the all star break.
We need to start by winning tomorrow.
By The Fat Lady
July 2, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
Where do you guy want me to set up my microphone?
I feel like singing.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
From the end of my game story:
Francoeur is an almost unfathomable 2-for-20 with the bases loaded this season, while the rest of the Braves combined are 21-for-67 (.313).
Francoeur has hit .129 (8-for-62) with 17 strikeouts and three RBIs in his past 17 games, with more errors (two) than extra-base hits (one). He’s hit .194 with one homer in his past 27 games, dropping his overall average to .236.
When asked three different ways about Francoeur and whether he might be benched, Cox indicated he would not be and said, “We’re not here to talk about Frenchy. We just lost the damn game.”
By southbeachdietfreak
July 3, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
Go Rays!!!!
By Murphy
July 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
That is a frustrating quote by Cox.
By N8
July 3, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
Hey!
Where is cody to back up his prediction of being in first place by the all-star break?
If this keeps up, they’ll be LUCKY to not be in last place.
Sure good thing that Diaz is coming back, huh? Whew! And to think that I thought, Wren was gonna have to make a trade to bolster this outfield.
Folks, the answer is NOT addition at this point. It’s subtraction. NOT having Francoeur in the lineup, would probably do more for the lineup, than replacing Blanco with a new acquisition, at this point.
The only nice thing about not being home to watch the games the past two nights, is that I was able to fast-forward on the DVR to all the “good parts”.
I just watched both games in about 14 minutes.
What a joke. Only it’s a BAD JOKE that’s not funny.
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Howdy Y’all!
Thanks for your kind words and prayers for my Mom. Looks like maybe they’ve found the right drug combo, the past two days she’s better than the back of my mind thought she’d ever be. I honestly believe your vibes of compassion were a part of it. Thanks to everyone who cared enough to say so…
Hammy pitched a mile away and I couldn’t go. Guess my vocal chords are relieved.
Sure wish we’d gotten these first two off the P__ys. Unless we make some kinda prosperous move [by trade] real soon, we’re gonna sink like a dead crappy. This team needs an injection of players with fire in the gut. We have a few, but not nearly enough. That’s left here with Justice; we never got it back.
OK, I’m pullin for Hammy again, but he’s still a wuzzy.
Adios Amigos, thanks again…
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
Just to give you some idea of the responses we got in a tension-filled (when it came to this subject) postgame interview in the manager’s office.
I asked Bobby about Francoeur, pointing out that he’s never struggled quite like this before, and Cox looked at me and said, “Yeah.” Like, you know, what’s your point?
Someone asked if there’s anything to say to him now, anything to do. Cox said, “He’s working every day.”
Then a person next to me quickly asked, “Is he going to be benched, or will he still be in there?”
Cox said, “He’s in.”
Then someone asked something else along the same lines, and Cox said what I quoted him saying, “We’re not here to talk about Frenchy. We just lost the damn game.”
Folks, that’s the way it is in this line of work sometimes. While you might think you can just keep asking until you get the answer you want, well, that ain’t the reality of it. You’re in the manager’s office, he’s sitting behind his desk answering questions, and he’s going to give you what he wants to give you, and that’s that.
Later asked Chipper about it and Pendleton about it. Terry said Francoeur’s to the point now where they’re breaking him down and trying to get him to do a couple of new things differently than he’s done before. But he’s got to develop confidence in those things, and he’s got to work on them before games, not during.
He’s been taking early BP this week, all that. But if the slide continues, I don’t see how they can avoid benching him, or sending him down when Diaz is activated. I mean, if Blanco keeps hitting, I can’t see how they could justify sending him down instead of Francoeur, even if Jeff is a “face of the franchise” or whatever.
This is a whole new level of struggling that he’s entered in recent weeks.
By Stephen
July 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
That quote confirms my total lack of confidence in Cox.
Nothing in Atlanta will change until Bobby hangs up his cleats.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
So, Bobby, is there ANY connection between Frenchy’s ABs and the BRAVES LOSING???? Give me a break!! Somebody wake this man up!
By Scruw Yall
July 3, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
GET OFF FRENCHY”S FKING CASE! You don’t think the guy is killing himself already? Francouer has won plenty of ballgames for us and he will again. HE ALONE IS NOT THE REASON WE LOSE!!!! What the f* has TEX done lately? HE is like A-ROD..chokes in the clutch EVERYTIME. HE’s the ONE who is supposed to drive in runs. WHERE’s his BIG DADDY BAT? SILENT.
THE WHOLE GODDA* TEAM IS SUCKING AT BATTING! IT AIN’t ONE GUY.
By prattvillenolzfan
July 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
79
The thing about these blogs is that everyone is entitled to their opinion. As such, I definately respect what you have to say. You usually maintain civility, very seldom do you take your disagreements to a personal level…
This is one instance in which I respectfully disagree with your 11:55 post
First of all, with Hamals pitching, we are not going to win tomorrow…..
That will put us 6 games under 500
We then go to LA & San Diego…..That is 6 Road games…..considering our road record, there’s no way in hades that we will win 6 in a row…..
What circumstances lead you to believe that we can win 6 in a row on the road….
I’ve been one of the Braves biggest fans since I was a kid in the early 70’s…I will support this team through thick and Franceour..I mean thin… But I do call it as I see it. As a fan, we all have that right.
Being optimistic is a good thing, but by continually wearing rose-colored glasses all of the time. It will cause you to have a distorted view on reality…..
Now if you were to say we go 5-2 in our next 7 games. That will put us at 45-47 going into the all-star break. That is a prediction that is alot more believable…
By westy12
July 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
How many more games might the Braves have won without Frenchy’s 2-20 with the bases loaded, and countless other rallies killed by his K’s and DP’s?
How long do you keep him in the lineup? How much confidence do you let him lose? Is it worth the risk of ruining his career at age 24?
Why do his teammates have to be punished while Frenchy is allowed to repeatedly embarrass himself himself, floundering hopelessly in front of thousand of fans? What did they do to deserve this?
Bobby? Don’t the paying fans deserve some answers?
By westy12
July 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
How many more games might the Braves have won without Frenchy’s 2-20 with the bases loaded, and countless other rallies killed by his K’s and DP’s?
How long do you keep him in the lineup? How much confidence do you let him lose? Is it worth the risk of ruining his career at age 24?
Why do his teammates have to be punished while Frenchy is allowed to repeatedly embarrass himself, floundering hopelessly in front of thousands of fans? What did they do to deserve this?
Bobby? Don’t the paying fans deserve some answers?
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
In Stenchy’s honor, I’m gonna wear a gas mask [with a huge yellow S emblazoned across the brow] to the next Braves game I attend.
By fastasballs
July 3, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Yes Bobby the team just lost the damn game & there will be plenty more where that came from if Frenchy continues his slide & you continue to run him out there day in & day out regardless of results.
I know the kid is trying his hardest, but for whatever reason it isn’t working right now. Do him & his teammates a favor & send him down. It’s almost sad to watch him hit any longer.
I know it may look bad to send him down, but any fan of the Braves or baseball knows it’s the right move.
Believe me if the real fans survived the mid to late 80’s Braves they will live through the 2008 version without Frenchy.
By uga-brave
July 3, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
ceasar (DOB),
My how the mob is fickle. looks like you are letting the mob canibalize themselves tonight.
in all seriousness, gotta say i saw this francoeur thing coming. i have been ridiculed for a year and a half about my francoeur comments.
all i was trying to say was the guy is a lunger who hits off his front foot and has zero pitch recognition.
there are not many major leaguers that drop their hands and have any success.
what you are seeing now is a fractured ego, it is up to him how he deals with it.
i will say one thing he is a max effort guy and i think that is part of his problem. slow it down some. too much to fast that first season.
played in the world baseball classic, missed basically all of spring training (heck who would not of), when he needed the at bats and he got off to a horendous start in 2006.
this is not a slump, this is the product of inferior mechanics. couple that with no ability to recognize a ball from a strike and you got REAL problems.
he has relearn how to hit. to compare him to a golfer anyone heard of ian-baker-finch.
By Chop Chop
July 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
14-24 since Bobby signed his contract extension.
Eek.
By Mike Hampton's Offshore Bank Account
July 3, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks to you and whoever the other reporter was for bringing up the elephant in the room that Bobby refuses to see, keep up the good work and maybe we’ll get some much needed changes. I have zero confidence in Bobby and his serious distortion of reality these days, it’s bringing down the bally-hooed franchise to it’s knees.
By bravos2249
July 3, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
this is unbiased(because Kelly’s not my favorite player and Jeff isn’t the source of all evil some but not all) BUT…..I know part of it was because Escobar was a knockout rookie but it shows a STRONG, STRONG sign of favortism that a 24 yr old isn’t benched or platooned when Kelly was last year and was on the verge this year had Prado not been injured and Keely had not hit lefties better.
By ObiWanKobe
July 3, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
Drastic times call for drastic measures. Maybe Mr. Wren should incentivize Mrs. Frenchy to with hold herself from one slumping out-fielder…
By braves70
July 3, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this
DOB, Thank you for asking Cox that question. His stupid and stubborn response to you speaks more than he could say and points out that Bobby Cox is totally out of touch with the fans, his players, and reality. His stubborn refusal to bench Francoueur is exhibit A as to why he needs to be relieved of his job at once.
By Abner Stubbleday
July 3, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this
I can see ragging Hampton,he guy would cry over a hangnail.Frenchy is trying and he’s just not getting it right now.He is 24 so there’s time to correct the problems.Has it occured to some of you that the beard is in response to some of the name calling ? I just think calling the guy girls names goes too far and could even cause more problems.
By Josh
July 3, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this
Hampton’s Offshore I really, really hope that this is Bobby being Bobby, giving DOB and the rest of the reporters coachspeak.
As was metioned earlier, not sending him down is going to be really hard to justify when Diaz comes back. If the team was getting, say around a .825-.850 OPS from another outfielder I would be totally fine with sticking Frenchy in the 8th spot and letting him ride this puppy out.; but is that even what he needs? Maybe a couple weeks knocking around AAA pitching in Richmond could restore his confidence? Bowman reported on someone within the organization worrying about fan backlash should he be optioned, and from a business standpoint I can see where whoever said that is coming from. But this thing is getting so bad I think optioning him may be the baest thing for not only the team but Francoeur as well.
By uga-brave
July 3, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
the most disturbing part of this so called slump is the evaporation of power.
every hitter slumps, this is a utter breakdown. no long flies, no balls in the gaps.
bobby has always been loyal to his players, it has been one of his great attributes and one of the reason his players love him. however, this is not a veteran working through some kinks.
this is a player with great desire, who has broken confidence, that is probably questioning his ability for the first time.
my guess, he gets the rest of the homestand before anything is done.
i just hope he stays humble through all this, probably easier said then done, but if he starts getting snippy with the press it could do a lot of damage.
sidebar,
how about the rays. evan longoria has that same chipper jones smirk at the plate. kinda has the look of the next great third bagger.
rays-sox series reminded me of the old braves- dodgers series in 91-92.
sidebar 2,
props to jason giambi and the stache. at least he had the character to fess up to his roid use and all is somewhat forviven. he looks like the late great thurman munson.
By Drew G
July 3, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this
I would just like to know why the Braves Franchise doesn’t catch half the grief and bullcrap that the HAwks and Falcons do when their respective teams struggle.
You can argue that the Braves have had a winning tradition until the past two and a half seasons, but sports are all about “What have you done for me lately?” And quite frankly, the Braves have done JACK lately. They can never get on a role, Chipper cannot be the star to take them over the top, and they nnever seem like they are even trying to improve their roster on a yearly.
But yet and still, reporters only hint at criticism with the Braves! This is absurd! Fans called for Billy Knight and Mike Woodson’s firing even though the Hawks are actually getting BETTER! I must say some fans in the “A” are confused. The Braves are freefalling to sellar dwellars in MLB and everyone seems to remain optimistic. ATL FANS: CHECK YOURSELF!
And this is coming from a hardcore ATL fan.
By Biff Bancoeur
July 3, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this
A Cautionary Tale
Hi. My name is Biff Bancoeur. I work at a bank. For some reason, my friends call me “Benchy”.
Things got off to such a promising start. I was gifted in arithmetic. I was captain of the Math Team. A large bank signed me right out of high school. A big contract. Didn’t need college - not me. I was going right to the big time.
I was the green boy. The color of money. They put me right in the lineup. I was in charge of mortgages. I got off to a great start. I had this idea see: most banks were making an “ok” profit on mortgages. But they required lots of money down, and all kinds of proof that people were going to pay back their loans, and lots of paperwork. That was the system. That was the banks “technique”.
But I said “what the heck”. Let’s swing for the fences. Let’s take risks. Systems and techniques are for losers. Why require money down, or any paperwork at all. Before you know it, I’m selling mortgages left and right like you wouldn’t believe. I was the rookie of the year on Wall Street. And here’s the best part. I leveraged up! That’s right. We lent out more in mortgages than the bank had in reserve. By a factor of ten!
But something happened. I don’t know what exactly. I truly believe that it was just bad luck. Nothing was really wrong with my approach. Suddenly, people were no longer paying their mortgages. I was losing the bank billions of dollars. Billions! We were once the biggest, best bank there was. But now, we were in danger of bankruptcy.
Some were demanding that my boss get rid of me. But no. He stood behind me. He said it wasn’t just the fault of one guy. The bank was in it as a team. I appreciated that and I kept going in to work, slugging away. Still swinging for the fences.
My bank is in big trouble, but I just know that I’ll come through any day now. You see, I’ve taken the rest of the banks money and I’m speculating in oil futures. The sky’s the limit.
By uga-brave
July 3, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
drew G,
well while there are always many contenders, you win.
your and idiot.
the falcons have never had back to back winning seasons and the hawks have never advanced out of the second round. i could go on and site many other reasons, but that should suffice. thanks for playing.
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this
What’s the word for something that’s farrrr beyond a slump? A slouch? A lurch? A slurch?
Howbouda Stench?
Got rid of an Andruw, got a Mendoza dreamer…
By Shamus Thacker
July 3, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this
The only thing the Hawks will get better at, with Woodson around, is sucking.
By Frenchywocky
July 3, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this
Strike one! Strike two! And through and through
The vorpal bat went snicker-snack!
The rally dead, he hung his head
(To the dugout) He went galumphing back.
By Roman Gal
July 3, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this
DOB Just wondering…did you ask Kotsay what his thoughts were about Hanson?
By uga-brave
July 3, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this
biff the banker,
that was a somewhat lame way to make a point, but not too far off with what is currently happening in the financial markets.
said last summer that both bear stearns and lehman brothers had huge exposures to CDO’S ans SIV’S.
lets see, bear stearns the 5th largest investment bank, basically went insolvent. oh by the way the stock went from 90 to 2. lehman brothers is barely hanging on, they dont even know what is on their balance sheets.
regional banks like wachovia, suntrust, and regions are in free fall.
mother merrill is rumored to be in deep crap. all this happened because the spreads went away in the equity markets.
it forced the brokerage houses to find a way to make money in other areas.
the rest will be financial history.
unemployment report is out in 6 1/2 hours should be interesting.
By steve
July 3, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this
Please send Jeff back to the minors for a while!!! Any body else can not be any worse!! At this point I would take Andruw back… well maybe not!!
By Bravo Nam
July 3, 2008 5:06 AM | Link to this
DOB
Appreciate you asking the hard questions…pleased you survived to tell us the tale.
I’m a big BC supporter, but sometimes (a lot of late) his stubborness and inflexibility undermine other good things he does…he should be taking the pressure of Frenchy and letting him get back to basics in AAA, he should be pitching Stockman, he should be giving one or both of Acosta/Boyer a much needed rest…but alas, those bees in his bonnet just keep-a-buzzing.
By nolie
July 3, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this
I see that Furcal is having back surgery and will miss two months or so. Good luck to him since that kinda stuff can be hard on a career as we have seen with Kotsay.
I never was in favor of resigning him as was talked about here earlier. This makes me even less so.Although I liked the guy when he was with Atlanta I think he’s becoming overpaid and now a little risky .
By Scott from Fairburn
July 3, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this
DOB, ditto on asking the tough questions and sharing the insight.
There are a lot of positives about having mgt continuity in the clubhouse … the downside is what you see in Bobby’s attitude. He’s stubborn to a fault.
I don’t believe this course of action is doing Jeff any good.
By nolie
July 3, 2008 6:46 AM | Link to this
There are a lot of positives about having mgt continuity in the clubhouse … the downside is what you see in Bobby’s attitude. He’s stubborn to a fault.Scott
maybe, but I bet this decision is not being made by Bobby alone. You probably need to spread the blame around
By southbeachdietfreak
July 3, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
Concerned,
Take your medication….seriously.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 3, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this
nolie,
I have to disagree… After nearly 30 years of managing, I’d think Bobby would have carte blanche to do whatever he feels he needs to without being questiond by management.
By Charlie
July 3, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this
The Braves season is a joke. Francoeur should be benched (at best) or sent down. Of course Bobby can’t do that because he “is a players’ manager”. (Not a Championship caliber manager…a players’ manager.) With Tex’s bases loaded strike out, on a pitch in the dirt, he is trying very hard to take over the “andruw jones choke title” of 2008. However Jeff won’t hand that over easily. And Bobby…poor, poor Bobby…he just keeps making the same moves over and over and over again, but yet he can’t figure out why everytime he does, he still loses. The definition of insanity: “Doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results.” That’s our Bobby. Frenchy, Tex, and a second inning for Boyer…and on and on and on. The losing will continue. When your product is second rate, and your leadership is flawed, how can you expect otherwise?
By Bill
July 3, 2008 7:08 AM | Link to this
Braves, do the the right thing for the kid. He’s under alot of pressure. Send him down to Richmond. I don’t want Tex nowhere around this team next season. He’s not worth that much money and I don’t think it would be wise to tie that much to one player. They have a core of good players. Put some life back into this team. They are lifeless.
By j-school dropout
July 3, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this
I don’t want to pile on Francoeur, but Ron Gant struggled like this once. The team sent him down, and he came back a great hitter. Francoeur needs to spend the rest of the season in Richmond. It will help him and the team.
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this
I think you guys are mis-reading where Cox is coming from here. He’s not going to answer the questions about Frenchy in the context of his struggles in this series because that would be throwing JF “under the bus” for the team’s struggles.
Don’t get me wrong - Jeff’s stats are what they are - but I think it’s important to remember that this team is losing for a variety of reasons. It’s understandable why people reflexively point to Jeff’s recent failures and pin the team’s fourth place standing primarily on guys like him. And in many ways, you are correct.
But the truth is this - who is going to play if Frenchy goes out, and will the results change where it really matters? My guess is Cox is not going to talk about optioning Jeff because 1: he wants him to work out of this, and 2: he knows that barring a trade or the other members of the team elevating their games, things probably won’t change much in the standings if they do option or bench him … and 3: he doesn’t want to put even more pressure on a young guy who’s struggling and working like hell to get out of it.
When I look at the Braves lineup, I see eight batters who have largely failed at doing the little things that help score runs. They don’t steal bases, they don’t move runners over, and they’ve so far wasted too many opportunities.
Anyone who wants to see what’s wrong with the Braves offense should look over at the Phillies and look at the things they do up and down that lineup. They have put on a clinic showcasing “the little things” that help a team score runs the past couple of nights.
Anyway, back to Cox and Frenchy - it’s like DOB said - sometimes you’re gonna get what the manager wants to give you. That isn’t unique to Cox - it’s PR 101.
You may not like it and you get to vote with your wallets and remotes. But don’t expect anyone in Cox’s position to talk about optioning a specific player while giving an interview about yet another tough team loss to a key division rival. Ain’t gonna happen.
By Joey T
July 3, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this
If Bobby decides to manage two or three more years, it will be like the good ole’ days going to a game and watching the Braves play. Some of you remember those times when the crowd didn’t come to see the Braves, they came to see and root for the opposition. They came to see Gibson and root for the Cardinals. They came to see the Big Red Machine and root for Johnny Bench. They came to see the other teams stars and oh yeah, Hank Aaron.
Some of those teams the Braves fielded were loveable losers. The difference with this team is they aren’t lovable.
By Jeff321
July 3, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this
Hey, maybe Frenchy can work the souvenir stand and hawk his own crap? Keeping him on this team is lowering moral, losing ballgames, and embarassing the franchise. What is he, something like 2/20 with the bases loaded? Just think, if he got a hit in 50% of those at bats.. Do the Braves have 10 more wins?
Jeff needs to be sent to Kissimmee and work himself back through the system. That is the only way I see him coming out of this a better player. With that said, I hope for the best but its obvious the status quo isn’t working.
By southbeachdietfreak
July 3, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this
NC Braves Fan,
Very well put… I think the beef with a lot of the guys, including myself, is the apparent lack of action by management to address the problems in the lineup.
Part of the reason is that we’ve heard the explanations before over the last 2 and a half seasons… that they’ll just snap out of it. It is what it is… We forget it’s not 1991 anymore, and this team doesn’t have what it takes to rise to the occasion.
Sure there’s lots of raw talent, and if they ever figure out how to use their strengths, the Braves will be ok. But they’re not right now, and questions have to be asked..
By Billy Walsh
July 3, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this
While the braves continue to slide down the standings, they should really consider moving Tex. With Boston getting swept by the Rays and the Angels looking for a bat, maybe the braves could pry a Matherson/Lowrie or a Kotchman from either of those teams. Its worth a shot. Is a Bay or Nady really going to make a difference here? For Hanson, Freeman, or Heyward? Thats what the pirates are going to want. There are too many holes to fll. With the losses of Tex, Hampton, and maybe even Smoltz and Glavine this team is going to have some flexibility with signing players in the 2008/2009 off season. Granted, there are no attractive 1st base options via free agency next year, you do have a Ben Sheets available and a Brad Lidge who will both be free agents.
By ernesto
July 3, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this
As bad as Frenchy’s been lately, and that’s PLENTY BAD, BMac hasn’t exactly been getting the job done with runners in scoring position either.
In the “Where to invest 20 mil” category.
If you’re ever going to spend that much on a player, it’s got to be a spark plug type guy like Jimmy Rollins. That guy can change a game. Tex is a nice first baseman, I’ve yet to see him as a difference maker though.
By Yehuda Hamer
July 3, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this
Its very simple: Our pitching as a whole is not good against teams that can hit.
By Will
July 3, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this
This is not surprising at all, the phillies are a much better baseball team. I just feel sorry for Chipper Jones because most of the rest of these jokers on the Braves are not winners. This season is over. Please Frank Wren you cannot be a buyer at the trade deadline!
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
ernesto, McCann has hit .274/.367/.464 with RISP this season. Francoeur is at .202/.264/.323. Not even close.
McCann’s OPS with RISP is a whopping .245 points higher than Francoeur’s.
Kotsay, Norton, Blanco, Diaz and Francoeur are having bad years with RISP. Every other guy who gets regular playing time has actually been pretty good.
There is absolutely no comparison between Francoeur and McCann.
By Yehuda Hamer
July 3, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
We have developed hitters, not pitchers.
By ManOfTeal
July 3, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
Guys I’m sorry to have to break this to you but the Phillies are not that good….the Marlins are only a game and a half behind them……the truth is, and the sooner you guys accept this the better off you will be, the Braves just plain suck…..
Go Marlins!!!!
By Will
July 3, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
And also that Bobby Cox quote about Frenchy just shows what a delusional idiot Cox has become! Keep throwing him out there moron. Jeff Francouer is an absolute detriment to this team and every day he is out there the Braves are at a disadvantage from the get go.
By Efrim
July 3, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
Okay. So, if we win tonight, are we considered buyers? If we lose, have we been thrown into the sellers group?
Some people may think that it is a good thing that the Phillies face the Mets this weekend. I think it is a terrible thing. The Phillies are going to truck the Mets. Absolutely destroy them. Joe Simpson said it best last night, “Far too many weapons”. Braveheart has brought this point up a lot, Phillies have a lot of players in their prime right now. 4 in their everyday lineup hitting 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th. As much as Chipper is dominating pitchers, he isn’t in his prime. In his prime, he played 150 plus games.
I heard Boog and Joe also talking about the right time to sell. I’m not really sure, I DON’T think it is July 30th. I think it should be a bit before. Like right after the All Star break. So the next 10 games may determine whether we are buyers or sellers. I now know that the Braves should not be buyers. I still think they have the horses, but are not executing. Kotsay is back, Blanco is hitting and Diaz is close to a return.
I just don’t think it is worth trading any top prospects for a fix this season. (And when it comes to Nady and Bay, who knows if the Pirates will even trade them. They really want to finish .500, apparently.)
By Savannah Guy
July 3, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
Our pitching as a whole is not good against teams that can hit.
Yehuda, I like that and am sure it was tongue in cheek. Right? I’ll add: our hitting is not very good against teams that can pitch. Actually, our hitting is not so hot with teams that can’t pitch. Wonder if anyone has insight on anything other than our hitting and pitching.
Oh, here’s one: Frenchy jersey sales are down. Chicken sammiches and beer sales at the Ted are up.
By Savannah Guy
July 3, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
One more for Yehuda: blood pressure med sales among Braves bloggers has reached an all time high.
Pfizer is sure to become a title sponsor. A big, chopping pill erected beside the cow? Could be profitable.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
NCBravesFan, not to beat a dead horse here but it is conceivable that Francoeur is the primary reason the Braves aren’t where they should be. Is he the only reason? Of course not. But when the team gives the second most plate appearances to a guy who has a worse OPS than Greg Norton and a worse OBP than Ruben Gotay, that team would be better off with virtually anyone playing in his place.
Francoeur’s VORP is -6.8. That means he’s roughly 6.8 runs below what a replacement-level rightfielder would contribute. And this is the guy the Braves are sending to the plate more often than anyone except Teixeira.
*When I look at the Braves lineup, I see eight batters who have largely failed at doing the little things that help score runs. *
No other Brave with enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title ranks lower than fifth in OPS at his position. Except for the injured guys, the guys who have been forced into the lineup because of injury and Francoeur, the Braves hitters have been quite good this season.
Anyone who wants to see what’s wrong with the Braves offense should look over at the Phillies and look at the things they do up and down that lineup. They have put on a clinic showcasing “the little things” that help a team score runs the past couple of nights.
Last night the Phillies had 17 baserunners to the Braves’ 13, and 6 extra-base hits to the Braves’ 3.
Tuesday the Phillies had 20 baserunners to the Braves’ 12, including 2 homers and a double to the Braves’ 3 doubles.
The Phillies’ big wins are primarily due to baserunners and total bases. I hope that’s what you mean by “little things.”
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
Will, it’s Bobby Cox’s job to stand up for his players and to be a leader. Do you seriously think Cox is going to say “Frenchy is really stinking it up right now and I hope he is sent down tomorrow. And we are done. It’s time to start looking toward 2009.”?
With all due respect to the press, Bobby Cox’s primary job responsibility is to help the Atlanta Braves, not to completely and honestly answer the media’s questions.
By SRF
July 3, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
I certainly do not have the answer - but it just seems to me that the Marlins do a better job of generating excitement by trying a bunch of young, hungry players until they find a group that makes a playoff run. As soon as a player or group of player(s) gets a big head and wants to get paid, they move on and the Marlins start over. I am not sure if any of the Braves AAA players have this kind of fire - sure have not seen it yet from the call-ups so far, but I would rather let Brandon Jones try to learn to play RF than watch Jeff struggle through the season like a wounded animal and then whine for a big new contract. Either way - we will be no better than .500 with either the expensive veterans or a AAA group.
By flange1
July 3, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
Morning all,
Nasty hight again, huh?
Efrim,
I agree with you, we should not be buyers. I think we should think about selling in the next 10 games if we cannot put together some sort of winning streak.
5-5 does not cut it.
I think we trade Tex and Ohman, maybe Kotsay if the deal is right.
If Hampton can ever get back and pitch effectively, I think he should go as well.
Time to think about 2009.
By Supes
July 3, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
The Braves have to suffer due to the stubborness and loyalty of Bobby Cox toward this players.
You know, that style of management is fine as long as players are producing…but when they aren’t (JEFF) and they are guaranteed a stop in the lineup it becomes self destructive.
Someone asked “who do we bring up?”
FREE JOSH ANDERSON!
That’s right. He is never going to hit a HR, but he’ll hit you singles and doubles, steal some bases, makes contact, hits around .285, can leg out hits, puts pressure on the defense, has a step up in the OF on 6-4-3 and WILL be no worst hitting with RISP than FRANCINE. So why not try it? Oh yeah, that’s right. Josh isn’t “one of Bobby Cox’s” guys…he doesn’t have t-shirts, jerseys and posters at all the gift shops with his face plastered all over and his jersey number, etc.
Enough of the player loyalty crap with Bobby Cox. That extension signing is looking worst and worst right about now.
There are options in the outfield other than Jeff Francouer. BOBBY and FRANK just don’t want to use them! So I’m starting to lay the blame at them from now on everytime Stenchy kills a rally with an unproductive at bat, it’s on those two people!
I know that Jeff is working, trying to change…but instead of having him workout everything in the minors, he is having to do it in game deciding situations here in the big leagues = failure = all on BOBBY COX and FRANK WREN.
Shameful, if the Tigers can send Dontrell Willis to A ball and Dave Dombroski isn’t afraid to do that to one of his high level players, speaks volumes.
I have wished time and time again for Ozzie Guillen, Joe Girardi, Lou Pinnella type guys b/c they would never tolerate perfromances by Jeff and they would tell it like it is…no sugar coating the situation.
Instead…it’s the same old Bobby and same old Braves. Break your heart, don’t they?
There is probably a 5% chance they win tonight against Cole Hamels…making another sweep for the Phillies all but complete.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
SRF, the Marlins do what they do because they either don’t have the money or don’t want to spend the money. And the only reason they can contend with young players is because they do a great job of trading their veteran stars for the best prospects in the game.
The equivalent of the Braves doing what the Marlins do, would be for them to trade Brian McCann next year for a top prospect. (They traded Josh Beckett at the age of 25 for Hanley Ramirez.) The Marlins do some things very well, but do we really want the Braves to copy the Marlins’ blueprint?
By Will
July 3, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
Shaun, its more my frustration with the fact that Cox is going to continue to throw a hapless, confused, punchless, etc… hitter out in rightfield every day. The “bases loaded we need a big hit” situations are gonna continue to find Frenchy as long as he is out there. Those situations found Andruw last year time and time again.
Supes, I will actually have to say there is a 0% chance the Braves win tonight. They will get dominated by Hamels.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Supes, Josh Anderson has an OBP of .335 against minor league pitching. He’s under .330 as a 24-25-year-old in AAA. And he’s struck out about 2-1/2 times more than he’s walked in the minors without very many walks. Plus his slugging percentage is .370. Anderson is not more than a fourth or fifth outfielder and pinch-runner at the major league level.
By Bob Horner
July 3, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Oh to be a Braves fan — it’s stressful, uncomfortable, irritating, and recently, painful to watch.
Last night, when they went down 4-0 in the 3rd inning didn’t you just feel that the lead was insurmountable? That is NOT a good sign. We are running a minor league lineup out there most nights —
I agree with one of the guys on here, let’s get Josh Anderson on the big club… hell, we’re running minor leaguers out ever night anyway. This team doesn’t have the makeup to win the division this year - and it’s so hard to watch this anemic offense. I love Franceour, and I know he will be a stud, but right now he’s a rally killer (like many others) and he needs to sit a few games. LETS DO SOMETHING BOBBY BEFORE WE’RE 10 GAMES OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By don
July 3, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Juswt when is “Big Tex” going to deliver? He failed in the clutch again last night. I can’t believe that there are still some of you who want to resign him. Say what you will but he hasn’t produced when the game was on the line. Dumb trade then. Dumber trade now.
By lvp
July 3, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
The Washington Nationals are only 6 1/2 games behind these bunch of losers for the NL East cellar….Come on Nationals!!!
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Robert S.
Had a chance to hear Skip’s words as well.
It seems to me that everyone sees it, and the Braves brass sees it; however, with the limited offense we have already, it’s probably just too hard for them to stomach sending Francoeur down for a while. However, once Diaz comes back, then maybe. At least Diaz is a veteran. Of course, there is also the option of acquiring an outfielderr with a trade; but with each passing loss, that seems highly unlikely.
All that being said, if the Braves truly are trying to “break down” Francoeur’s swing, and build it back up, it seems to me that the best place to do that is somewhere in Virginia, or Mississippi.
By nolie
July 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
After nearly 30 years of managing, I’d think Bobby would have carte blanche to do whatever he feels he needs to without being questiond by management.Southbeach
I think the MLB article lends credence to it being a decision that was made by more than just Bobby, though in general I agree with you that he would probably be able to make most decisions on his own. I think I recall DOB saying at one time though that often both the manager and the GM work together on things like sending a guy down.
With Jeff being the face of the Braves I think that there is probably some resistance from LM and their beancounters concerning Jeff. No way to know for sure and I’m not saying that Cox doesn’t concur-I have no idea. I just think it’s a bigger deal than the normal reassignment..
By Random
July 3, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Morning, DOB —
Have Francoeur and anyone else (eg, Pendleton) gone over film of him hitting from last season and/or the year before?
I figure they must have — why do you think that has not helped him regain his old form?
Has he had anything to say — good, bad or neutral — about his eyes and the new contact?
How’s his ankle, and his legs in general? He seems to have lostv a step in the OF.
Has he been golfing at all lately? What does he do to take his mind away from the game and his current woes? Is he brooding?
Do the other players treat him with kid gloves now, or do they try (or even over-try) to act like everything’s normal?
How’re he and McCann getting along — do they still act up and get into it with Chipper?
Just a few things I was wondering about. You don’t need to give specifics in all cases (if you do answer at all).
Thanks.
By Tomas
July 3, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
No offense, no pitching, no win. Damn phillies, how has there pitching been so good. Jamie Moyer, Kyle Kendrick, and Adam Eaton are not aces, they where fill-ins. Brett Myers was so bad he was sent back to the minors, that leaving Cole Hamels as there only quality starter. The Braves have no excuse, chipper, kotsay, and escobar are back.
I expect the phillies to have around 5 runs per game, the braves need to get the bats going when there are runners on. Against the phillies the braves have a 202 average(before yesterday), and the phillies have a 302 average, and the results are the brave have only one in 8 games against them.
By KC
July 3, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
I realize at least 2/3 of this blog has already thrown in the towel, and have different ideas on who to hang first.
BUT…
Win tonight, and the Braves will still be very much alive.
IF the Braves can just hang around in this race, they’ll have a shot. This team is JUST now getting healthy. I still think there’s a good bit of unrealized potential with this team.
The pitching has actually been the biggest problem the past couple nights. When you give up 5 runs to the division leader in the first 3, 4, 5 innings… I think that’s pretty demoralizing for everyone.
I think Campillo and Morton will be fine though, and we Hampton is due back soon (knock on wood). Not worried about the starting pitching.
If the Braves can get it going… the Mets and Phillies play head-2-head for 4 games starting tomorrow. And after tonight, we play 3 losing teams between now and the all-star break. So IF we can get it going, the opportunity is still there to cut the Phillies lead to a few games, before the break.
But 7 games is a deeper hole than 5 games, so…
Tonight’s game could decide the season for the Braves.
It’s a lot of pressure to put on a rookie, but Jair’s got to be our ace tonight!!!! And, while Bobby won’t do it, tonight would be a perfect time to NOT have an automatic out (Frenchy) in our lineup.
By Paul in Richmond
July 3, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
I am a __ fan but….. (fill in the blank with JF, BC, or whoever)
For those of us who want to make this simple - just jump on Jeff. There is no question he is not doing the job.
For those of us who dislike the way Bobby swaps pitchers and screws with lineups but still leaves slumping players in key spots night after night - Jump on Bobby. He is making the calls not Jeff or Andruw or Stockman.
But the problems are more complex. That team last night outplayed us all night long. If the Phillys 1b can catch either of two ground balls it never gets close.
Our patchwork outfield looked very bad defensively. We cannot throw anyone out stealing. We have NO offensive strategy -other than send the batter up there and see what happens. We cannot execute a bunt, steal, hit&run or anything close to a rally. Our “leadership” only plays part time. Whining about injuries that I have never heard of before and spewing quotes in the paper about how the “veterans” must step up while being coy about whether or not they are playing next week.
Finally, we have sunk a fortune in just a few players who are either not producing at all or not producing NEAR the expectations.
There is a lot of cleaning out to do if this group cannot come together and begin playing basic baseball as a TEAM. BTW- do the Braves ever have team meetings? Or is that not part of their tradition?
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Don, Tex is second to Chipper among regulars in OPS with runners on, with RISP, with the bases loaded. He leads the team in OPS with RISP and two outs, in late and close situations, from the 7th inning on. If Tex hasn’t produced enough for you in the clutch, you aren’t going to be pleased with anybody.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Shaun—
Thank you.
Although…the last time McCann got a hit with RISP was on June 21 for a walk-off single. Since? He’s roughly 0-10…maybe 11…well, I don’t know…
But I cann find out. Anyway, he’s still got an OK AVG with RISP…but he’s lost app. 41 points off that AVG in the past 9 games.
Online voting is over. Now we have to rely on the players around the league to come through for us in the polls.
By DirtyDawg
July 3, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
I had intended to say this yesterday in the hope that it would change our luck…seems to me every time I complain about one or another of the Braves, they do something good…so here goes. WE ABSOLUTELY SUCK…BIG TIME. AND I DON’T SEE ANY WAY OUT OF IT.
Ok, there it is, now go out there and make me a liar.
By BravesLover
July 3, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Hey Mr. Cox…somebody damn well should be “talking about Frenchy”. It takes an adult to say “I need help”. If JF is not mature enough or so ego bound that he can’t say let me work this out away from the boos and limelight then the organization needs to take the pressure off him and send him down. I live in FL so don’t make it to the games often but allow me to say what the stands said last night and will get louder the longer JF is impotent. Boooooooooooooo. Every time you hear the fans in the stadium saying this know that a fan in Fl is doing the same. Booooooooo.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Tomas, while Hamels is their only ace type, Myers is really the only starter who has been far from quality (fairly close to average or better).
Here are the ERA+ (ERA adjusted for league and park; 100 is average, less than 100 is below average and over 100 is above average).
Hamels - 131
Moyer - 107
Kendrick - 97
Eaton - 93
Myers - 76
By ernesto
July 3, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
SHAUN, McFann clarified my point quite nicely. Not talking about body of work, just delivering with RISP lately.
By Will
July 3, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
KC, The braves are done! Its not people being pessmists or a knee jerk reaction. This team has stunk all most all year and the two previous years. Any person who is not a Braves fan doesnt give this team a shot in the dark to make the playoffs.
By MK
July 3, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Francoeur has hit .129 (8-for-62) with 17 strikeouts and three RBIs in his past 17 games, with more errors (two) than extra-base hits (one). He has hit .194 with one homer in his past 27 games, dropping his overall average to .236.
When asked three different ways about Francoeur and whether he might be benched, Cox indicated he would not be and said, “We’re not here to talk about Frenchy. We just lost the damn game.”
“WOW”, what a comment. We must also not be talking about winning either…
By uselessRANDOMgarbage
July 3, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Hey Dob
I have no life, and as such i want to ask a few totally useless questions
Which way does Jeff drive to work to the games.
Does he wear boxers or briefs. If he started to wear boxers, maybe he wouldn’t feel so “tight” at the plate
what does he eat for breakfast, pancakes, waffles, or fruity pebbles
How is his colon…Is he getting enough fiber. You know, if he’s not getting enough fiber, he could feel constipated. That could affect his swing.
How are he and his wife getting along..Since they are newly married, I bet they are doing it alot…That may be why he is looking “tired” all of the time..Maybe if they could cut back to maybe one or to times a week it might help..(of course maybe they already have, hence the new contacts)
You see DOB I really have absolutely no life and my posts usually contain nothing of substance or importance to this blog, but these are things that I just have to know
DOB you really don’t have alot to do, so this questions really shouldn’t take that much time.
By Ralph
July 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
If I wasn’t such a positive person, I would say that the Braves are a negative team. If you half close your eyes, you can see the monkeys on each players back, every time they play, and see that the real Atlanta Braves players have being replace by a bunch of negative, no talent robots, that give up before the game starts. The replacement can about, between 2006 and 2008. If you want to fine the real Bobby Cox, he’s fishing, somewhere in north Georgia, and the robot that replace him, has no idea how to manage. And what can one say about the general manager, the head robot, nothing good, asleep on the job. There are the reasons why the Braves are such a terrible team, there are no real people on the team, it’s like monkey see, monkey do attitude. Where is the talent and where are the real Atlanta, Braves, they should get Scotland Yard to investigate this case. Ask this magical team, when do they plan to play better, and they’ll tell you at the end of the season. It doesn’t matter who in the line-up or not, when a team play like a bunch of losers, it becomes a habit, It won’t matter who’s playing, they will keep losing
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Who’s boneheaded idea was it to air the All-Star Selection Show at 2 o’clock—during games?
Oh yeah: Same people who decided to take the Braves away from millions of fans.
By Ralph
July 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
If I wasn’t such a positive person, I would say that the Braves are a negative team. If you half close your eyes, you can see the monkeys on each players back, every time they play, and see that the real Atlanta Braves players have being replace by a bunch of negative, no talent robots, that give up before the game starts. The replacement can about, between 2006 and 2008. If you want to fine the real Bobby Cox, he’s fishing, somewhere in north Georgia, and the robot that replace him, has no idea how to manage. And what can one say about the general manager, the head robot, nothing good, asleep on the job. There are the reasons why the Braves are such a terrible team, there are no real people on the team, it’s like monkey see, monkey do attitude. Where is the talent and where are the real Atlanta, Braves, they should get Scotland Yard to investigate this case. Ask this magical team, when do they plan to play better, and they’ll tell you at the end of the season. It doesn’t matter who in the line-up or not, when a team play like a bunch of losers, it becomes a habit, It won’t matter who’s playing, they will keep losing
By ManOfTeal
July 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
I’m calling it right now, barring any unforseen occurances, the teams in the World Series this year are going to be either the Marlins vs Rays, or the Cubs vs Rays. And the Rays are going to win the World Series. I still hold onto hope that my Marlins will win it all for the third time in their 15 year history but I’m also a realist. Here’s to an all Sunshine State World Series….
Go Marlins!!!!
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
BravesLover, a player is immature if he wants to stay in the big leagues?
Will, the Braves have “stunk”? I count 13 teams with a worse record than the Braves since Opening Day of 2006. If the Braves have “stunk,” how would you describe the Royals, Pirates or Nationals?
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
MK, again, Bobby Cox’s responsibilities are to the Atlanta Braves and not to the media. His responsibilities to the Braves take president over answering the media’s questions.
By Random
July 3, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I’m feelin’ the love, bro’ — thanks.
By KC
July 3, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Will: Got it thanks. I will give up home immediately.
There is no chance - with Jurrjens on the mound - that the Braves win tonight. Absolutely no chance they could take 5 or 6 of the follow 9 games before the break (to pull within a few games at the break).
No chance at all.
I will give up all hope immediately, and cancel my plans to attend tonight’s game. Thanks for letting me know.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
hey ya’ll, i was wondering this last night…who plays CF for the braves in 2009? do you think we will try and resign kotsay, or do we give blanco the job? if you had to decide today, what would you do? (pretend shaefer isnt a factor)
By DAP
July 3, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
hey ya’ll, i was wondering this last night…who plays CF for the braves in 2009? do you think we will try and resign kotsay, or do we give blanco the job? if you had to decide today, what would you do? (pretend shaefer isnt a factor)
By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )
July 3, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
David,
I know this has probably already been talked about, but do you think all the talk about Jeff bulking up to hit more homeruns has done this to him..ala Andruw Jones? He is flying open almost every at bat to crush the ball, instead of staying on the ball and taking it to right field. Also, all the denizens out there that are hammering him now where on his side when he started. I think we all need to cut him some slack. BACK OFF PEOPLE… he is trying….Sorry David, got a little excited….
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Here is something interesting from FanGraphs.com: FanGraphs calculates Win Expectancy Added.
WE (win expectancy): The percent chance a particular team will win based on the score, inning, outs, runners on base, and the run environment.
WPA (win probability added): WPA is the difference in win expectancy (WE) between the start of the play and the end of the play. That difference is then credited/debited to the batter and the pitcher. Over the course of the season, each players’ WPA for individual plays is added up to get his season total WPA.
Jeff Francoeur’s WPA is -2.56, the worst in baseball.
By Efrim
July 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Shaun
If the Braves have “stunk,” how would you describe the Royals, Pirates or Nationals?
Come on man. Lets not compare the Atlanta Braves to organizations that haven’t been able to get out of their own way for 15 years. The Braves should be better than this. Do you think any Braves fan cares that his team has been better than the three you just mentioned? “Stunk” could mean a lot of things to fans. Being under .500 since the beginning of the 2006 season might qualify as “stinking” to some people. That said, I’d like to know your opinion on when to sell? Lets say the Braves are 5-7 games back of the division heading into the break and 6-8 games back of the wild card.
Do they trade Tex? I’d like to hear your thoughts, or anyone’s thoughts on the matter. I guess Frank Wren can continue to look at the Braves run differential and ranking among NL leaders in ERA and runs scored and figure that he has a good-very good baseball team. But sometimes it isn’t your year and you just have to accept that. The ball still isn’t rolling their way 85 games into the season. Like I said, the next 10 games are crucial. At some point, Wren has to make a decision.
By Supes
July 3, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Shaun, I’m well aware that Josh is a 4th outfielder on any other club but the 2008 Atlanta Braves.
On this current Braves team, the way Kotsay’s been injuried, Matty Diaz has been injuried…and Jeff has just failed to produce…(combine that with Jordan S. HGH suspencion, b/c let’s face it, if he doesn’t get caugh, etc he would have been the first option called up when Kotsay initially went down)…so to sum it up…on this current team Josh Anderson is a legit option within what you have to work with at the moment.
Shaun, I don’t put much stock in minor league stats. Look at BMac. He was a decent catcher in the minors, Salty was the one everyone tauted as the number 1 catching prospect for the organization. I’m not saying Josh will be a 3 time all star or anything like that, simply saying minor league stats are a tool you can use to judge some of what the player maybe like…but until a player has been given 500 at bats at the major league level you truly never know.
That is why I’m advocating Josh Anderson call up and sending down Jeff Francouer until he gets it figured out.
You can bat Josh leadoff, or 8th in the order, either way to provide some sort of speed element. Other than Gregor Blanco, who else on this team is an option to give you a stolen base late in the game and manufatcure a run? You see, it’s not all about minor league stats. It’s the intagibles someone like a Josh Anderson brings to the dish. I mean the guy hit over .300 when he was up here before they sent him down, I realize it wasn’t very many at bats, but it was a promising start.
FREE JOSH ANDERSON
SEND 6-4-3 AWAY!
By Ralph
July 3, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Jeff Francouer, is 24 or 25, he a young player, who all his life was the main attraction, he is not doing very good, you can say bad. He may not be listening, or maybe he thinks he knows it all, he still playing making the same mistakes over and over again. No one has the right to get personal with a player, if you want to say he stinks and he’s a lousy player o.k. But, don’t bring in his wife or family into the picture and bad mouth them, only a low class person, uses this type of tactic. If Francouer, doesn’t want to list to advice, then it’s his career, the real fault lies with Cox’s for playing him everyday, and not really trying to help him, knowing that he is not helping the team at all. It’s not his wife or parents, who are playing, so if you want be critical of the man, let it be so. Two cents worth, Jeff, use a heavier bat, and don’t stand so close to home plate. Good luck.
By ernesto
July 3, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
So if they give Frenchy a few days off, what does the outfield look like?
Norton LF, Blanco CF, Kotsay RF?
I don’t think anyone else on the team has the arm for RF other than Kotsay.
Any word on Infante?
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Just did a comparison of McCann and Russell Martin—their season stats, and their RISP stats.
Let’s just say…that was a mistake. We no longer have to worry about Soto. He obviously won the fan vote. Now, we have Martin. (Molina’s not too bad himself.)
I think I cann wait for Sunday…
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Must have not been comfortable in Bobby’s office last night.
I’ve said Frenchy needs to be benched or sent down. But it’s not at all in Bobby’s style to tell the world if he plans to do it. Remember how fast Wickman and McBride went from regular contributors to former Braves? Without a word from the manager?
Not saying Frenchy will be quietly dispatched to Richmond, but it’s just not Cox’s style to publicly throw players under the bus.
One other thought. Bobby could well be under orders to not bench JF. (Remember Bowman’s article?) If there are numbnuts in the front office who are determined to keep Francouer in the lineup because he’s good for merchandise sales, what is Bobby going to do?
(Wait for it …)
I know Robert’s answer.
That could be part of the reason Cox can’t discuss it.
Finally, I’m not at all convinced that Francouer’s problems are caused entirely by poor mechanics or by impatience. He drove in 100 runs a year his first two full seasons with that awkward swing and that terrible approach at the plate.
I’m concerned that he just can’t pick up the ball. Yes, that his beanings have affected his vision and he might not improve. No amount of hard work alone will fix that.
That’s a medical problem that can be determined with testing. And perhaps adjustments can be made with time away from the big league club.
Other than the recent eye check and the contact fitting, have other tests been done?
By Josh
July 3, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
McFann @ 10:36 It’s amazing how TBS continues to screw the pooch on their conversion to “national” baseball coverage. It’s a shame because the production crew that’s working on those games is probably the same crew that made the Braves on TBS so great for so long. That selection show has as much business being on at 2pm on a Sunday as Chip Caray does announcing a nationally televised game.
By Renegator
July 3, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Another sweep by the Phillies really kills this season for the Braves. They should definitely be sellers at the deadline. Adding a piece here or there isn’t going to fix this underperforming team. As long as BC is at the helm - this team will continue to play .500 ball no matter what players are brought in.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
DAP,
Way too early to make definitive decisions about 2009. It is asking a lot to leave Schafer out of the equation, but —
If Kotsay returns to his pre-injury form and can play most of the time without another DH stint, you might consider signing him again for one year and not much money.
If not, then for 2009 give Blanco a shot perhaps in a platoon with Lillibridge (if he returns to form) or Infante.
Then see how Schafer and Hernandez play if one of them hasn’t pushed his way onto the roster. I think we’ll have a good idea about the type of players they could be by the end of 2009.
Of course, all this depends on whether the Braves make deals this season and acquire a CF who could play by the start of 2009.
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
he is not doing very good, you can say bad.
We can say bad? After alllll that extra BP and work we’ve read about him doing did you happen to see those swings he took last night? He doesn’t even swing like a girl anymore, he swings like a toddler.
Look, I know he’s a nice kid, I know he’s the pride of Duluth, but the cold hard truth is he is not a major league caliber player. Enough is enough. Leaving him here to hear the boos is only hurting his psyche even more. Send him to AAA (or A even) and let him work on his swing and build his confidence. Forget the teenagers who think of him as a hearthrob, is that what the Braves org is about now? Really?
Bowman’s article sure seemed to hint that it was and that, Braves fans, breaks my heart.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Josh—
Exactly.
Hey, one more thing I forgot to add to my 10:02: McCann’s left 13 men on base in his last 3 games—8 of those being ISP.
By JasonInMaine
July 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
As long as BC is at the helm - this team will continue to play .500 ball no matter what players are brought in. Renegator
Bobby Cox has only had 6 losing seasons in 23 years at the helm and had 15 consecutive seasons with more wins than losses. There are many things that may be able to be said about Cox, but I respectfully suggest that said statement makes no sense.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
BravesFan: I can assure you that if Cox doesn’t want to play Francoeur, he will NOT play Francoeur. There is NO ONE telling him who to play.
Now, I’m not saying there’s not pressure from above to keep him on the major league roster, because I know there is. But the reason Cox has been playing him is, frankly, what better options have they had? Seriously, while Kotsay was out, who was going to play right if not Francoeur? No way you were going to have an outfield of Blanco, B Jones and Norton. No way.
But now, with Diaz coming back soon and with Kotsay back now, there will be options. Such as Kotsay in RF, Blanco in center, Diaz in left. that kind of thing.
As for Francoeur’s vision, you’re reaching. Don’t you think the high-level vision specialists they’re using would think to do as many tests as needed on his eyes when he came in for a visit a couple weeks ago? This isn’t like going to the optometrist at (pick your discount retailer).
His vision is perfect in one eye and brought back to 20-20 with the contact in the other (it was only about 20-40 without the contact, according to Jeff).
By tkg
July 3, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
It’s interesting to read some of the “Fly-By GM’s” on here who think Francouer should have been benched in May and that all of this is Cox’s fault.
Come on, people. Get a hold of the big picture and actually look at it.
Francouer has a track record of big-league success. It’s not a long one, but it is two season’s worth. The Braves went into this year pretty much figuring you pencil the guy in for 160 games, 25 HRs and 100 RBIs — reasonable assumptions. Now, what team in MLB that has a 24-year-old RF with two season worth of decent numbers — and a reasonable assumption those numbers are going to improve — is going to spend millions of dollars on a backup that could produce those kind of numbers? Better yet, is that backup out there? Of course not. And who in the minors could the Braves have called up over the past month? They brought up everyone they had except for Schaeffer, who needs some ABs in the minors.
With the injuries, an HGH suspension, etc., they have had no choice but to let Frenchy try and get this thing figured out on the fly. Has it reached the end of this road? Yes. The road probably ended 15-20 days ago, but they couldn’t do anything about it. They couldn’t bring up anyone and it would be stupid to make a knee-jerk trade.
I’m guessing Frenchie will be sent to the minors once Diaz gets back. Frenchy’s reached rock bottom, which is pretty much what had to happen for him and the Braves before anything could be done with him. When you’ve got a guy you’ve counted on to produce, you can’t jump ship 35-40 percent of the way into the season.
I think the kid is busting his tail, trying his best to get this thing corrected, and I’m sure it’s eating him alive. He seems like a competitive freak, just like Smoltz, Chipper, etc.
I hope they send him down this week and give him some time to work on things away from the glare of the big lights and knuckleheads who just want to feed the guy to the wolves.
By GeorgetownKid
July 3, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Someone at 3:15am actually said that Francoeur should “burn in hell” and “DIE DIE DIE”
You are a frickin moron, and that sort of stuff isn’t even funny. I would love if Francoeur could have 5 minutes alone with you in a room. If he used his bat, I bet his swing would feel pretty solid to you.
By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )
July 3, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Georgetownkid…
I echo your 10:34 post 1000 time over….
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
For those asking about Francoeur weight and health, I do think the continue worsening of his ankle is something he’ll have to address this offseason (surgery). And the weight he added in the offseason could possibly have exacerbated that, sure. But I’m just speculating. He definitely appears to have lost a step and has been a merely mediocre defensive outfielder this year with a good.
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Shaun Where exactly is this “replacement-level” OF? Richmond? Mississippi? Pittsburgh? Anaheim? ‘Cause at the end of the day we can send Frenchy out, but if the results don’t change in the standings, the same people on here who are railing on JF will find another scapegoat to b!tch about.
And that’s my point - don’t expect Cox to make yet another frustrating loss about one player, or speculate about that player’s tenure on the team while being interviewed about that loss.
It’s DOB and others’ duty to ask those questions - but it is not appopriate for Bobby to speculate on that, and it would be wrong if he did.
I think everyone needs to read between the lines and understand that two things are happening here. 1: They’re waiting/hoping for JF to snap out of this because there’s no better option available right now in RF & the lineup to help this team win games … and 2: if a better option becomes available and Jeff doesn’t come around, they’ll make the appropriate move at that point.
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I agree, GeorgetownKid. That was the worst comment I’ve ever seen on this blog and that’s saying a lot.
By Nathan
July 3, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
GeorgetownKid
The guy at 3:15 wouldn’t need to worry if Francouer armed himself with a bat…he’d swing and miss.
By Leave Frenchy Leave!
July 3, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
LOL Nathan. SO wrong but so funny.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
bravesfaninrockies Way too early to make definitive decisions about 2009. It is asking a lot to leave Schafer out of the equation, but —
youre completly right about that. thats why i put int he qualifier…”if you had to make a decision today”… id say, since kotsay has been hurt, blanco is the starting CF in 2009 if we had to choose today.
to me, the only way kotsay plays for the braves in 2009 is with a multi-year deal. maybe three years. if he hasnt played well enough to justify that, he hasnt played well enough to give him one more year either. to me, he will have to play pretty much every game for the rest of the season and double his stats (8-12 HR, 45-60 RBIs, 18-25 doubles ect.) to bring him back. this team still needs veteran leaders.
i think we should consider trying to sign orlando hudson this offseason, and moving KJ back to left or to first if he can handle another move. hudson is a solid player. this team just needs something. im trying to figure out what it is.
By Greg
July 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Is it true that Francouer spent part of the off season working out with Andruw Jones? If so, is that where he picked up so many bad habits in the box? I personally think he needs some time in the minors to clear his head. It worked for Ron Gant.
By Will
July 3, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
KC, If you really did follow thru on your 10:52 post your holdiay wknd would be much less stressful.
Shaun, If the Braves have stunk then the royals, Pirates and nationals STINK. Has it really come to the point where you are defending the Braves by saying well at least they are better then royals, pirates and nationals? Wow!
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
tkg, good post except I disagree somewhat about Francoeur’s track record. If you look at the important stats, Francoeur does not have that great track record. He has some impressive RBI totals because he was in the lineup literally every day and he was in a good lineup (with a lot of good on-base guys).
It’s not all that surprising that Francoeur would have a season like this early in his career, given his skill set—he’s never been a disciplined a hitter, his power is good but not overwhelming and he strikes out a lot.
But Francoeur has the tools to be a fine major league player, probably sooner rather than later. Is he going to be the superstar that some envisioned? I’m skeptical of that and always have been. But I do think he’ll be a fine player eventually.
By DrHoo
July 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Only thing worse than watching the Braves lose 3 in a row is realizing I have to listen to Chip Caray the next 3 games. Ugh.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan, yes, I do agree with you that there probably isn’t a much better option anywhere besides Francoeur, especially with all the outfield injuries. At the very least there is not an option with the potential of Francoeur. So I agree that Cox has to run him out there right now.
And I have actually been defending Cox’s answers to the questions about Francoeur.
I think most people here realize what the options are for the Braves regarding Francoeur. I don’t think we have to do much reading between the lines to see what’s going on. I think as soon as a better option is available, as DOB has said a couple of times, Francoeur will be sent down for more seasoning.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
ME TOO!!
Sicko…
By Renegator
July 3, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
JasonInMaine
Look at the last three years, brother. What BC did back in the 90s and the early 2000s was great - but at this point he doesn’t have it anymore. The last three years we have been nothing but a .500 ball club. Time to stop living in the past and look at the facts.
The Braves brought in the biggest hitter on the market last year and what happened? Nothing. They still finished right at .500.
Adding a Bay or a Nady this year won’t make a difference if adding Tex last year didn’t.
By Jeff321
July 3, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Seriously, while Kotsay was out, who was going to play right if not Francoeur?
Give me a break. Cox plays Norton in LF who obviously isn’t even an outfielder. Does it really matter who they put out there? Because I guarantee the mystery player would hit better than 2/20 with the bases loaded. Oh, and have you seen Jeff’s throws to home plate that sail over McCann’s head?
By Lew
July 3, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Angry-written by Micky Moody
I get angry when I see so much indulgence And people looking after number one I get mad as hell when politicians bu!!sh!t ‘Cause come the revolution they’ll be gone
I get angry when someone tries to fleece me It’s guaranteed to put me in a rage I get wound up when I’m put upon by wise guys They want to know who’s rattling my cage
Angry, raging,rabid, raising Cain Burning, seething, p!$$ed off, mad again
I get angry ‘cause my legs don’t move so quickly But then I’ve got no cause to run away I resent the fact I ain’t got hair like Elvis It gets more like my old man’s every day
I get angry when some psycho walks to freedom And lawyers cite those human rights again I feel helpless when some pond-life warps my children So I bite my lip, curse and count to ten
I get angry so much ignorance surrounds us Indifference seems to be the thing today I grow weary from life’s daily tribulations We always seem to be the ones who pay
Angry, raging, rabid, raising Cain Burning seething, p!$$ed off, mad again
Just kind of seemed appropriate for the general tenor of the blog. Maybe we should adopt the band, Rose Tattoo as our mascots. Their singer is named Angry Anderson. Perfect, right?
By NOconcerned forConcerned
July 3, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
If he used his bat, I bet his swing would feel pretty solid to you.GeorgetownKid
oh come on, if he used his bat the guy would be totally safe, Frenchy would miss him every time he swung.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Greg, a lot of Braves work out with Andruw in the offseason, including at his batting cage at his home. B-Mac and Francoeur are among those who do, but there are plenty others.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Will, the Braves are a few games over .500 after winning division titles every year there have been a post-season from 1991-2005. I just don’t see that the Braves need defending. And I just don’t see that a few games under .500 qualifies as “stinking.”
When I think of stinking, I think of 90-100 losses a season. And even that may not be so bad if it’s one season and the franchise is loaded with good young players and prospects.
By TennesseePaul
July 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Didn’t Francoeur switch to a heavier bat this off season after he bulked up with a football team?
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal, just saw your question about Hanson. yes, I did talk to Kotsay about him, in fact. I’ll put it in a new blog.
By Reid in EAV
July 3, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Just blowing off steam folks — I really do think Frenchy will figure it out eventually. All major leaguers seem to hit one of these black holes at some point in their careers — alas, it’s usually in the minors for most. Unfortunate, now, for Jeff that he had success at every level and moved so quickly and is experiencing this on such a big stage. (I know the R-Braves don’t have a beat writer blog with 1,000+ comments each entry!)
That said, remember the Dutch kid in the Delta commercial who caught French’s autographed ball? With this slump, wouldn’t he have to move a lot closer now? Say, Grant Park or Summerhill? ;-)
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Shaun To be clear, I wasn’t implying that you were saying one thing or another about Francouer/Cox, just clarifying where I’m coming from on the Cox bashers on here who expect a replacement outfielder to spontaneously fly out of someone’s butt and lead us to first place.
It’s tough to watch the kid regress when the team clearly projected him to do much better this year. His regression comes at precisely the worst time relative to the team’s injury issues.
As bad as the last couple of nights have been, I still think this team could finish in first if they get some players hitting in sync at the top of the order and make a deal or two.
We shall see …
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Appreciate the response.
All the injuries limited the team’s options. I agree. Though it sure seems there could have been a game or two more when Infante, Blanco, Norton and Jones were active and Frenchy could have been rested. (Granted, there weren’t many.)
That doesn’t explain why he’s been hitting higher than 8th in the order, however …
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Greg, have you and the others who want to speculate on bad habits and laziness been paying attention to Francoeur’s career?
Francoeur’s career OBP even before his struggles this season: .320. His career SLG: .463.
His career OBP in the minors: .325
By Bay Area Steve
July 3, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I just want to echo the sentiment of others here, praising you for asking Bobby the hard question.
Also, could you find the time to respond to Roman Gal’s 2:50, inquiring as to Kotsay’s impression of Hanson. Thanks.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan, I do think it’s quite possible that Francoeur’s struggles have led to a lack of tacking on some extra runs that could have helped the Braves in a lot of close games. I think it’s common sense that if you replace a player with someone better, you are going to win more games. But, yes, it’s tough when your outfield is thin as it is.
By nolie
July 3, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Greg, have you and the others who want to speculate on bad habits and laziness been paying attention to Francoeur’s career?
Francoeur’s career OBP even before his struggles this season: .320. His career SLG: .463.
His career OBP in the minors: .325Shaun
Most have been blinded by his RBI totals, which we know aren’t even individual stats. I argued last winter that he was nothing more than average at best with the bat and his RBI were the result of starting every game in a productive lineup, but all I caught was flack for the most part. I feel bad for him because I know he is trying, I just don’t think he will ever be more than an average RF hitter with a great arm.Not that that’s all bad by any means.
By Lew
July 3, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Reid in EAV-More like move to shortstop.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
It’s been an odd-looking career. When the Braves called up Francoeur three years ago, I thought it was a mistake. In 84 Double-A games that season, he’d drawn only 21 walks while striking out 76 times. His OBP was .322. Take a .322 on-base percentage and send it to the National League, and the results would not (I figured) be pretty.
But Francoeur was fantastic. He hardly walked at all, but that didn’t stop him from hitting .300, slugging .539, and finishing third in Rookie of the Year balloting despite playing in only 70 games with the Braves.
Could he keep doing it? Could he keep succeeding that way?
He couldn’t. In 2006 the strikeouts went up, the walks went down, and Francoeur’s slash stats plummetted: .260/.293/.449. He was one of the least valuable everyday players in the majors.
Could he come back? Francoeur acknowledged a problem, publicly discussed his need to control the strike zone and draw more walks … and he did. After drawing only 17 unintentional walks in 2006, he upped that number to 37 in 2007. Slash stats: .293/.338/.444. Still not good for a right fielder. But for a 23-year-old, definitely a step in the right direction and something on which to build.
And now, this.
But why? Francoeur is drawing roughly the same number of walks this year, striking out roughly as often, hitting roughly as many doubles and homers. As near as I can tell, the problem is simply that he’s been unlucky.
According to Francoeur’s page at the Hardball Times, he’s hitting like he usually hits. Of his batted balls, 21 percent have been line drives, which is actually a career high (last year the figure was 19.4 percent). Forty-four percent of his batted balls have been grounders. Again, nothing new there; in 2006 and ‘07 the figures were 45 percent and 43.3 percent.
Here are Francoeur’s batting averages on balls in play (not including home runs) in each season of his career: .337, .284, .337, .267.
It looks like his skills haven’t changed much, but his luck has. Which is generally true about baseball players. Their skills don’t actually change much at all from season to season, but their luck’s all over the place, and the latter explains a pretty hefty percentage of the roster moves you’ll see over the course of the season.
Should the Braves send Francoeur down? Nobody can know but them. If Francoeur’s ill luck has gotten inside his head to the point where he’s changed his approach, maybe a couple of weeks in Richmond might help some. But if he’s going about his business like he always does, his luck’s going to turn around and that might as well happen where it can do the Braves some good.
The hype generated around Francoeur in 2005 was not merited by his skills. But he’s young and he’s durable, and if he’s left alone he’ll enjoy a long and productive career.
—Rob Neyer
By DAP
July 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
nolie I argued last winter that he was nothing more than average at best with the bat and his RBI were the result of starting every game in a productive lineup, but all I caught was flack for the most part.
the reason for this was probably the fact that jeff’s AVG with RISP was pretty high, especially with two outs. which most people interpreted as jeff being clutch. thats why people rejected your idea that his stats were mostly due to playing everyday in a good lineup.
if you look at his situational stats from 2006 and 2007, he, is becomes a better hitter the more pressure is applied. look at his 2008 stats, and the opposite happens. its just weird.
By KC
July 3, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
DOB: “Greg, a lot of Braves work out with Andruw in the offseason, including at his batting cage at his home. B-Mac and Francoeur”
Damnit… that explains it!!! Hitting IS contagious. Keep McCann and Chipper away from Andruw before they catch it too!!!!!
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun - I agree completely.
I think it’s really remarkable that the Braves are still in it given all that has happened that has deviated from “the plan.” Especially when you consider the Phillies have had a pretty easy go of it injury-wise.
But thems the breaks - and you have to tip your cap to them for the way they’ve played the Braves this year. They haven’t taken last year’s success for granted at all.
On another note - I was suspicious of Lidge’s comeback and felt like he was going to have to prove himself in a big moment before I really thought he was all the way back. But I have to say last night’s AB against Tex convinced me that whatever demons he had in HOU are seemingly behind him now.
If they do go on to win the division, they look like they’ll be a tough club to deal with in the postseason.
By KC
July 3, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Will: “KC, If you really did follow thru on your 10:52 post your holdiay wknd would be much less stressful.”
Ya know, I’m actually going to agree with you there!
I have been blessed with a good career and wonderful family, and sometimes I wonder why it (the Braves) matter to me as much as it does. It made sense back when I was pathetically broke and alone, but now, it probably shouldn’t occupy as much emotional energy as it does… but I can’t seem to break myself of it. Oh well.
While I’m very confident in Jurrjen’s abilities, I’m a little uptight about this game tonight. If I didn’t care, it WOULD remove a little stress from my life… but hey, it’s who I am. So…
Go Braves!
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan, I remember in the offseason when a lot of people here saying Lidge would be a disaster in Philly. I disagreed because I saw his K-rate was still awesome and his walk rate wasn’t bad. (Another post about BABiP.)
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
if you look at his situational stats from 2006 and 2007, he, is becomes a better hitter the more pressure is applied. look at his 2008 stats, and the opposite happens. its just weird.
Regression to the mean. A player’s “clutch” stats are going to normalize to roughly his career stats, given enough plate appearances.
By NCBravesFan
July 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Shaun - I was skeptical of BL to be sure. Looks like a change of scenery did him a world of good.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
A number of us on B/MIB (including Crusading Everyman and me) thought well of the possibility of signing Rafael Furcal when he became a free agent.
Oh well. A kid can dream. Fookie’s going to have back surgery, the same procedure (I think) Kotsay had. Out for at least two more months.
http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/2008/07/dodgers-4-astro.html
The Braves might be able to pick him up for a song in the offseason. Given the pounding that middle infielders get, I wouldn’t offer him a lot more than that. Sad, really.
By Chop Chop
July 3, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
I agree with a lot of what Rob Neyer says, but if Neyer were to watch the Braves on a regular basis, he’d know that there’s not a lot of “luck” involved in the bad swings that Francoeur is taking. I have no doubt that his struggles are getting to his head. I think that’s plainly obvious (his mechanics are all out of whack), and it seems just as obvious that his low BABiP is causing him to dig himself into an even deeper hole.
That’s the problem with stats, I guess. Neyer watches whatever games he chooses, but he can always go back to the stats to tell us that Francoeur is mostly suffering from “bad luck.” Neyer doesn’t really know that Francoeur’s doing all kinds of work on the side…or getting advice from all angles…or really starting to hear it from the fans. All of those things factor in to why Francoeur is struggling so much.
I personally have no doubt that Francoeur’s BABiP would be higher now if he were comfortable at the plate and not having mechanical problems in his swing. I mean, how many pop-ups and routine grounders has this man hit over the last month or two? He’s not driving the ball. To me, that’s not just “bad luck.”
(That being said, I think Neyer’s a very adept baseball guy. I just don’t think stats are going to help Francoeur or the Braves fix the problem. They just prove that the problem is there.)
By BravesFanInRockies
July 3, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
BTW, the Dodgers now need an everyday SS. Here’s a wild and possibly crazy idea. You think the Braves could offer Infante (and maybe a prospect) for Kemp or Ethier?
Prado/Lilly would be the utility players.
By Efrim
July 3, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
KC
… but I can’t seem to break myself of it. Oh well.
Yes, it becomes difficult at times. But like you, I can’t keep myself away from these Braves. They will always be my favorite baseball team and professional franchise.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
shaun Regression to the mean. A player’s “clutch” stats are going to normalize to roughly his career stats, given enough plate appearances.
whatever shaun. thank you for you pointless tidbit of info that doesnt even apply to my post.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Russell Martin just singled with two outs…
It’s on, now!
By THB
July 3, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Don’t know how serious Braves management is about trading Tex, but they better either be serious about signing him or trading him. The problem with taking draft picks is that the Braves have a long history of drafting high school players out of GA rather than taking the best available. They focus too much on signability rather than strictly ability. Not saying it hasn’t worked though, because it has. But drafting two high school players won’t help the club next year, and a huge hole at first base will just cause Wren to have to make a trade, which, in turn will cost at least 2 more good prospects. Then we break even, not really getting much back or possibly giving up more top prospects than gained. And we don’t have any 1B in the minors ready to step in. Kala Kaaihue is the closest, but needs this year, next year, and then possibly a callup.
What Wren should do, is either put Tex on the trading block. I see the Dodgers as a good target,(They’re 1.5 games behind the slumping Diamondbacks and need a bat) and they do have James Loney at 1B who is good already but doesn’t have his power stroke yet. I like the possibility of getting Loney and a prospect like James McDonald, who has done very well in AA this year (93 SO to 30 BB in 90 IP with a 3.17 ERA).
We’ve all heard stuff about the Angels and Red Sox too. Angels have Adenhart (Not fairing well this year in AAA, for some reason) and Kotchman. Sox have a lot of prospects, I would like Lars Anderson and one of Bowden/Buchholz/Masterson at least. The Rays could be looking for a bat, but I know they want an outfield bat. Maybe they’ll jump in the Tex sweepstakes (If there is one), especially if they don’t get CC. We could maybe snag Price, and if not, a couple of Hellickson, Davis, and McGee plus another prospect or MLB ready player. Who knows.
But the main reason I’m posting this is because most people don’t think Tex will be worth much. I say that’s a bunch of crap. Remember last year what the Red Sox gave up for Gagne, knowing he was a FA at season’s end? They gave the Rangers David Murphy (23 2B, 10 HR this year as a rookie CF), Kason Gabbard (4.82 ERA, still young, good pitcher) and Engel Beltre (younger than Heyward, very young, lots of upside) for 2 months of Eric Gagne.
If the Braves are going to sellers (Not just unloading Tex), they should definetely consider moving Ohman. He’s had an excellent year, and could bring back one good prospect or two solid ones.
That’s about all I gotta say for now.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Shaun - I was skeptical of BL to be sure. Looks like a change of scenery did him a world of good.
NCBravesFan, probably not really a change of scenery more than a better defense behind him and more luck.
This season the Phillies are first in the NL in Defensive Effenciency (turning batted balls in to outs).
And here are Lidge’s BABiP numbers:
2008: .273
2007: .298
2006: .331
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
I don’t think it is bad luck with Francoeur. His mechanics stink and are causing an unlevel swing. His line drive percentage is way down. He is hitting more ground balls than ever. His babip on groundballs is way down but that’s because his swing is feeble and he is hitting soft grounders. Maybe some of it is just bad luck but I think alot of it has to do with swing mechanics which is causing him to hit more weak grounders than he usually does.
By McFann©
July 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
KC If I didn’t care, it WOULD remove a little stress from my life… but hey, it’s who I am.
I feel the EXACT same way.
BTW—Martin scored. Dodgers are winning 3-0.
By brent a.
July 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
I continue to believe that Rob Neyer is full of hogwash.
He should watch Francoeur and not just spew stats.
Jeff looks terrible at the plate. It isn’t just bad luck.
Neyer says that Francoeur’s power numbers are “roughly” the same; but, they really aren’t.
Jeff had a decent start to the season. His first 10 to 20 games were fine, about what you would expect. It’s what he’s done the last 40-50 games that has been so terrible, has caused him to look for problems, make all sorts of adjustments, take days off (even admitting that he “needed” them), get a contact lens, and see all of his numbers plummet.
If it were just bad luck, I think we’d be commenting more often on how unlucky Jeff looks, as opposed to lamenting the way he consistently hits into double plays, swings and misses at pitches off the plate, and fails to move runners over.
I wish him well, but this is more than just bad luck.
By flange1
July 3, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
I agree. He might be getting unlucky, but his mechanics are not there right now. He seems to be pulling off the ball as we say in golf.
I think he needs to go back and start hitting balls off a tee, then do the “soft toss” stuff until his approach gets better.
But I am sure everyone and their brother has told him the same thing.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, yeah, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Certainly bad luck is costing him. As Neyer points out, and as I can see on fangraphs.com, his line-drive rate is higher than his career rate, his groundball and flyball rates are pretty much in line with his career numbers.
By J.D. Phillips
July 3, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Lot of talk on here about the Braves continuing playing 500 ball no matter what. Most of you may be over optimistic….500 will be a long shot. This club has an excellent chance of finishing 12 to 15 games under 500.
By DAP
July 3, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
THB And we don’t have any 1B in the minors ready to step in
he do have thorman still. he could be our starting 1B in 2009. ugh!
i agree with you. it was just one year ago when we gave up 5 prospects for tex and mahay. even though its different this year, since it will be a 2 month rental of tex, i think we could get some good players for him. like i said before, if we trade him, we need to get either pitchers…relief or starters, or we need to get corner infield or corner outfield guys, perferably close to the majors.
somebody IS going to want tex.
By David O'Brien
July 3, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP (or will be in seconds…)
By BossLady
July 3, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
I just reveiwed the National League All Star Votes. It is a shame that out of 5 listed at each position there are only two Braves. Chipper and McCann are looking very good. This is just awful and embarassing. On his walk year Tex could have tried to make a showing. If you gonna do something you should always try to be the best. When I looked at the names that are listed from other teams I realized that those guys deserve it.
By Shaun
July 3, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
brent a., well Francouer has 8 homers through 84 games. He had 19 last season. He has 19 doubles. He had 40 last season. So, it seems that Neyer is right. His power numbers are roughly in line with at least what he did last season.
He’s on pace for slightly more GIDP. His strikeout rate is actually slightly lower this season than his career average.
So maybe Neyer is more right than we realize.
I’m still opened to the possibility that some of it is just that all line-drives aren’t the same and he’s hitting weaker line-drives. But certainly it seems luck is a significant factor in Francoeur’s struggles.
By Braveheart
July 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
As Neyer points out, and as I can see on fangraphs.com, his line-drive rate is higher than his career rate, his groundball and flyball rates are pretty much in line with his career numbers.
Shaun, then there’s a problem because baseball-reference has different stats than fangraphs. Baseball-reference has Francoeur hitting grounders 45% of the time, flyballs 38% of the time, line drives 17% of the time. Fangraphs is less accurate in differentiating between line drives and flyballs.
By Bravissimo
July 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
OK gang, let’s face it: it’s all over but the excuses. It this team should stumble into the playoffs, which I seriously doubt, they would be humiliated again by being shot down in the first round. Why bother? This is a mediocre team going nowhere. It’s time to trade whatever can be traded to contenders in need of help for prospects and/or draft picks to begin restoring the Braves to respectability. With the probable departure of Smolz, Glavine and Hampton enough cash will be freed up to acquire a group of players to firm up the core of a team of younger hungrier players with a future. In my book only Chipper McCann, and the younger pitchers are untouchable. And I guess I should include Francoeur. His meltdown may not be terminal and another year may straighten him out;
By Bravissimo
July 3, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
OOps! Let’s hang on to Escobar!
By 7-4
July 3, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
“Chosen One”? Kiss my @$$.
This is America. People have to earn what they get.
Either git er done or take a hike.