Braves

By Bawlmer Braves

June 25, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

I have to agree with you on Maddux for sure. Probably nobody better on any team in the majors at fielding from the mound.

Picking Brian Jordan in right field is not exactly a clear-cut winner. I think he falls right in there with the revolving door of RFs we’ve had over the last 15-20 years. Frenchy has possibly the best arm of the lot, but I don’t feel that any one of them really stands out above the rest. We’ve had some pretty good fielders/big gamers out there. Overall your list is pretty good, albeit I only have about 18 years of Braves history to base my opinion on.

By Dweeb

June 25, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

FURST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the braves haven’t been able to say that in years now.

By Kashi

June 25, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

I am surprised, why B. Giles name wasn’t picked for 2nd base. He had a solid defense there for us. Lots of double plays with Furcal. Yunel Escobar is a player at SS. He gets to the ball all over the field. I believe Chipper trust him there more than anyone after Furcal. I don’t know whats wrong with Braves but lately I am seeing a very awful plays. I feel like there is something in club house that we don’t know about it. Guys are not focused in the game.

By Geezer

June 25, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

I’ve said it before…the “Atlanta Squaws” need to find a teepee and start cleaning house…

By bigchiefrg

June 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Ron Gant was HORRIBLE in left field although I cannot really think of a better one, either Deion would probably do since they were at least fast..

You cannot forget about Vinny Castillo at 3B. Although I feel Chipper will give him a run for his money on the barehander when he’s healthy. And as far as game on the line and gut goes, there is NO WAY you can argue against Chipper being there.

I dont think Dale Murphy was better than Andruw in CF but definitely better than Brian Jordan when he made the move to RF.

By Brian

June 25, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Thanks for including Raphael Belliard. He was always my favorite player while I was growing up (probably because I wasn’t always the tallest or strongest either). As a matter of fact, for our anniversary this year, my wife bought me a Raphael Belliard autographed baseball. Very cool.

By Cecil34

June 25, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Brought this over from other blog:

Let’s talk about something very Offensive….

I could not help but snicker last night when Cork-wad came up to pinch hit in the 9th.

Is this the best effort a major league can do for a back-up catcher?

This is a prime example of misguided decision making that has plagued the Braves of late.

Who in their right mind would select him over Javy Lopez? Cox?

Jeez, I would have rather had Javy up there last night.

Can somebody find Vic Correll or Bob Didier for crying out loud?

By jim

June 25, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

I was hoping to read the comments from last night about Cox’s decision to bunt with Infante in the 9th inning last night, but Carroll got here first. I have been generally a defender of Cox — he’s not a very good strategist, but his other virtues make (made) him a decent manager. This year his overuse of the bullpen has been blatantly obvious, but, in his defense, he doesn’t have very many reliable options to use out there. (I think our love affair with Stockman on this blog might wane if we actually saw him pitch regularly in situations where the game was still on the line.)

But last night’s decision to bunt had me screaming at the TV and getting a deserved tongue lashing from my wife. Infante was the last reliable hitter available in the lineup. I would rather take my chances with him and risk the DP than to stake any hopes on JF, B. Jones, or, especially as it turned out, Corky.

I can’t fault him for using Chipper to lead off the 8th. It seemed that getting base runners on in front of KJ, Tex, and BMac was our best opportunity to score and, if he weren’t used there, there would likely be no opportunity to use him at all — Escobar’s boneheaded play gave Bobby few options. Where Cox screwed up there was using Lillibridge to run instead of Jurjjens. If Lillibridge were still available to run for McCann, I would have played hit and run with Infante and trusted Lillibridge to steal the base if it failed.

By Eleanor

June 25, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Brian Giles ever played for the Braves - his brother Marcus did however and I agree he was good. The main thing in my humble opinion, when these guys are on the field - they need to concentrate totally on the game and not let their minds wander to other things. This is a good team - they just have got to gel it together and that means NOW. The Braves need to do what it takes to keep Tex at first.

By Mike

June 25, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

How do you think the Braves will blow it today??? They seem to find a new way every other night.

By jim

June 25, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately we remember too well the second coming of Brian Jordan and forget his first. The man played some great defense in right field!

By Shawn

June 25, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

The Braves have got to start playing better. The talent is definitely there but the focus in the field and discipline at the plate are suffering mightily. Why are we playing so haphazardly? Are these players uncoachable? What about baseball fundamentals like bunting a runner over, hitting to the right side to move a runner along, only swinging at strikes, hitting the cut off man, holding opposing base runners close or actually scoring when runners are in scoring position with less than 2 outs. I hate to say it but Bobby is just not getting this team focused and ready to play anymore. He really hasn’t gotten the best out of a team since 2003. Just like it’s time to transition to life after Smoltz and Glavine, It’s also time to get ready for the braves without Bobby.

I can’t argue against Maddux, Perez, Hubbard, Langerhans, Escobar or Andruw but TP was better defensively at 3rd, Big Cat or even Laroach was better defensively than Tex, and Justice was better than Brian Jordan or Francoeur in right.

By keylargo

June 25, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to give David Justice the nod in RF. I will never forget that he threw out a runner from the warning track the inning before Sid Bream’s famous slide vs the Pirates.

By superadam

June 25, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

1st Tex 2nd Bret Boone (one season but I liked him) 3rd Castilla SS Furcal CF A Jones RF Justice C Greg Olsen( Dont remember his defensive ablity but Bobby sure used him alot when we were winning) P Maddux

By Horner's Corner

June 25, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

I loved the outfield in the second half of the 2004 season. The group Bobby said, “covered it like Kudzu.”

Charles Thomas LF Andruw Jones CF JD Drew RF

By Carroll Rogers

June 25, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

M. Giles? He definitely showed how much he learned from Glenn Hubbard in the minors. And got good at turning the double play and wasn’t a liability by any means. Just thought every once in a while, he gave us flashbacks of a guy who played the outfield in high school (and had a propensity to crash into OFs as well!)

but by all means, make a case. Just get his name right (smile) - this from a gal with lots of brothers and sisters.

By hunterj6

June 25, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Shouldn’t this blog be about the lack of offense? How about lack of desire? How many times have these guys looked at the scoreboard and said we got to score 1 to tie it in the 9th?

If the Braves were one of Michael Vicks dogs, well they would have been buried weeks ago. There is no fight in this team…

Yes, the days of looking to your iconic pitching staff as leaders are gone and although Chipper has star status and the potential to lead, he doesn’t. There is no glue in Chipper to hold this team together. So with that said, who is our leader? Who?

Find a leader and you will find a team that wins the 1 run games…

By BigDaddyJ

June 25, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Could “Frenchy” be any more of a disaster this year? .240 batting average, 2 for 20 with the bases loaded and now error after error in the field.

By Carroll Rogers

June 25, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

good points on david justice and laroche….but didn’t laroche zone out and fail to cover the bag a time or two? not that i should base an entire body of defensive work on a couple plays. great, great kid, nimble first baseman. just thought i remembered some of that.

By Wiregrass Dawg

June 25, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Nobody could turn the 3-6-3 double play better than Sid Bream. Give the man some love at 1B.

By Greg

June 25, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

can we call Infante Everyday-Error?

By TheTruth

June 25, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Agree with most of what you said, but how could you put Brian Jordan over David Justice who covered as much ground as the next guy and had a cannon of an arm. Don’t get me wrong because Brian had a good arm as well…I just cant recall him laying out for the ball or having a better defensive effort as Justice did.

By Braves Fan

June 25, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

What about David Justice? I would take him over Frenchy?

By Ace

June 25, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Looks like you’re up after all Carroll.

Purely defense…

Let’s not worry about who plays which position in the outfield and send AJones, Langerhans, and Otis Nixon out there. Surely you remember That Catch…

1b - Tex, Galarraga, Laroche - in that order, all decent 2b - Hubbard for sure SS - Belliard got it done, Walt Weiss wasn’t bad either 3b - Chipper is just fine C - Perez P - Maddux

By Joe

June 25, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Would love to read another Bradley article slobbing on Francoeur.

Frenchy is absolutely pathetic right now and is killing this team. Although he had been terrible at the plate, he was still on the field everyday for his defense.

Now he cannot even perform the rudimentary duties of a MLB outfielder. Bobby needs to think long and hard about putting Frenchy on the DL or simply sending him out to Richmond for a couple of weeks.

The kid has totally come off the tracks and needs to be away for a little while.

By HighCheese

June 25, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Pitcher: Greg Maddux Catcher: Javy Lopez 1st: Fred McGriff 2nd: Glen Hubbard Short: Rafael Ramirez 3rd: Chipper Jones Outfield: Hank Aaron Outfield: Andruw Jones Outfield: Dale Murphy

By flange1

June 25, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the new/old blog Carroll!

I have to go with Clete Boyer at 3rd. He was a heck of defensive player.

In terms of Frenchy, I think he is need of a DL stint.

Having been around and played competitive golf for many years, when players go into slumps, they have a tendency to listen to everyone they see about what they are doing wrong.

Their minds get clogged with too much information and they continue to struggle.

I would bet that is what is going on with Frenchy right now.

One of the best “cures” for this problem is time away from the game.

Put Frenchy on the DL and tell him to go to the beach for a week. No baseball at all. No practice at all. Think about nothing. Rest the brain.

Come back to the team in a week. Start hitting in the cage with TP and Bobby there and work on 1 fundamental at a time. Just get comfortable hitting the ball again.

Then come off the DL rested and ready to do battle again.

The poor kid is struggling so bad that his defense is being affected.

The team will be better off with ANYONE in RF right now but Frenchy, so DL him and let him get away for a bit….

By Braves Fan

June 25, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

ACE, Good call on Walt Weiss. I think I would still have to go with Mark Lemke at 2nd though. I never saw Hubbard play. Though he had to be good with what he’s done with M. Giles and K. Johnson.

By brent a.

June 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

I expect to see big things from the daylight boys, Teixeira and Francoeur today.

By Tim

June 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

How about Clete Boyer at third and Joe Torree behind the plate????

By J-Row

June 25, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

CORKY a better option than CHIPPER

I guess that is what Bobby was thinking when he used Chip to lead off an inning down 3 runs. Not only was he using Chipper up, but knowing that if he got on base, he had to use another guy to pinch run. So we are left with another magical CORKY situation in the ninth. Of course, there was no way for Bobby to know that’s how things would unfold, but as a MLB manager, you would think he has more sense.

OK Bobby. Next time, use Brent to pinch hit lead off. Save Chipper for a late situation with runners on. If that situation doesn’t arise, you don’t have a chance anyway. Using up your best player and a secondary runner in meaningless situation is unforgivable.

By Alan

June 25, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Good work, Carroll. I agree, though, with hunterj6 (9:02) that it’s the Braves’ offense that’s been sorely lacking this season. I don’t agree with him about lack of desire, however. Still, I guess the results speak for themselves. This is a sub-.500 team, and its play reflects its record. It will be interesting to see if the Braves rebound today with a victory. They sure can use one. Anyway, to answer your question, here’s my all-defensive team is pretty much the early ’90s club except the outfield: Greg Maddux P, Greg Olsen C, Sid Bream 1B, Mark Lemke 2B, Rafael Belliard SS, Terry Pendleton (or Chipper) 3B, Ryan Langerhans LF, Andruw Jones CF, J.D. Drew RF.

By alan

June 25, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

All this speculation is great fun; but the Braves are playing like they’re in “A” ball & it doesn’t look like it going to get any better.

By J-Row

June 25, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Nice Post Jim

Your right man, Jair would have been ideal to run for Chipper. I can and do find fault with Bobby using Chipper to lead off however. Why not use Brent to lead off? Down three runs, and with Blanco and an empty Yunel (Norton I think) spot to follow. If you need Chipper later, he has to be there. Keep in mind, the sidearm lefty Shousse came in to pitch. That means Blanco and Norton are pretty much dead spots even if Chipper gets on.

By Big Easy

June 25, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

For my money, I would field this fantasy defensive lineup:

P: Greg Maddux - No pitcher defends their position better. C: Eddie Perez - Again, gotta go with CR on this one 1B: Mark Teixeira - Best defensive first-baseman the Braves have had in ages. 2B: Marcus Giles - A couple of years ago, he was as slick as anybody out there. 3B: Chipper Jones - Should have won the GG last year. SS: Walt Weiss - Crazy right? Well, Yunel is great, and will be one of the best SS to play for the Braves, but Weiss was a favorite of mine going back to his days in Oakland. LF: Ryan Langerhans - like CR said, purely for defensive purposes CF: Andruw Jones - in his prime, a couple years back RF: Jeff Francoeur - I know he has been really struggling in the field this year, but he is the best RF I have seen for the Braves

~E~

By Bobby's Cox

June 25, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

If the Braves were one of Michael Vicks dogs, well they would have been buried weeks ago. There is no fight in this team…

That is one incredible analogy.

Well said.

By GT80

June 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Why do I want to talk about who I’d like to have on the field defensively from players over the last 20 years. Just a waste of etherspace.

Let’s talk about who we should have on the roster THIS year. I’m not sure who makes the final decision on roster spots, whether it’s all Bobby’s call or a group effort between Bobby, his coaches and Wren. I would seriously like to know who is making the calls on this.

But come on, is this really the best 25 man unit we could come up with. Why is Corky Miller on this team? What happened to Brayan Pena? Rueben Gotay? Greg Norton? Why is it every year we have someone on the bench who can’t even hit .200? And we have two others that are barely over .200.

As I’ve said before, now I know how a Pirates fan feels. We’re fielding a team that doesn’t have a chance to compete. And if Bobby and Wren want to say we have a top tier 25 man roster they are just lying.

By Lew

June 25, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Carroll-Aren’t you the Early Bird this morning?

Any chance The Cow can play shortstop? Couldn’t be much worse than what we’ve seen this week.

By RSM

June 25, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

What about some guy named Murphy in right field, or is that turning back the clock too far.

By Jeff

June 25, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Its so frustrating to see the braves keep losing like this. Something has to be done and I dont know if it is something in the clubhouse or a managerial problem but something has to be done immediately for us to salvage this season. Im sick of waiting for next season.

By Lew

June 25, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Alan-A ball? In the first inning yesterday I was having flashbacks to my son’s Little League career almost twenty years ago. I was hoping for a while they didn’t have to invoke the Ten Run Rule in the second. I almost expected a few Brewers to score stopping at each base a la Little League Home Runs.

I’m widely considered to be one of the biggest Homers on the blog. My thoughts? Flipping Pitiful. Yunel needs a spanking and to be sent to his room with no supper. Maybe detention and laps.

By Kashi

June 25, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Yeah J-ROW @ 9:41 AM, I did NOT get it why Chipper was used to lead off 8 inning and down by 3 runs. We used 2 bench players to lead off 8 inning and end up double play. Yesterday if Frenchy had stayed calm and waited for a pitch to hit, he might have tied the game. He tried to hit all 4 pitches and got jamed on 4th pitch. I still regret sending Brian Pena and NOT giving Javy Lopez a chance. Corky Miller can’t bat and even if he gets on base, it is a base running liability. So what are they thinking now..Bringing back Javy Lopez with MAJOR LEADGUE contract?

By Braves-Dawgs Fan

June 25, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Langerhans? He was incredibly average in the field and stunk it up as a batter. Is he still playing in the big leagues?

I like the comments from HIGHCHEESE, Murph should be your centerfielder and I would add Claudell Washington out in Right Field and Andres Thomas for short stop. Give us a DH and Bob Horner would be your man!!!!

By stynes

June 25, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

As someone already said - 3rd base is Vinny Castilla’s even though he was only here for a couple of years. And yes, Chipper makes the better play coming in on a slow roller with the bare hand.

By Bobby's Cox

June 25, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

I don’t fault Cox for using Chipper in that spot in the 8th. Chipper’s hurt, Escobar got tossed, that left the lowly hitting/overmatched Littlebridge as the only other option. At least Cox was trying to get something started, & sure enough Chipper came through.

However, I do fault Cox for using Corky in the 9th. I mean, look all the options Cox had available:

Corky - .100

Jurrjens: .100

Hudson: .125

Bennett: .143

Campillo: .167

Obviously, Jorge Campillo should’ve been hitting with the game on the line.

By Big Easy

June 25, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

flange, I was thinking the same thing. Between the vision issue, and his balky ankle, there is more than enough reason to cover a DL stint. Besides, a trip to the DL would probably not damage his psyche like a demotion to Richmond would.

Let him take a week off, no baseball. Come back, work in the cage, and then do a rehab assignment (that way he gets his minor league stint in without being sent down), and come back on fire.

I love Frenchy, but he is all messed up right now. And the guy has loads of talent. He can play great ball. He just has to get his head on straight.

~E~

By Curtis Jones

June 25, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

1B: Texiera 2B: Boone SS: Belliard 3B: Clete Boyer LF: Reggie Sanders CF: A Jones RF: Justice C: E Perez P: Maddux

By Moby Grape

June 25, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

and Justice was better than Brian Jordan or Francoeur in right.Shawn

Not really. Between 91-94 Dave made 7,8,5 & 11 errors, in 106,140,157 and 102 games. Guy was not a great fielder.Drew played a much better RF if only for one year.

By Hoosier Aaron

June 25, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Great subject - this is fun.

Are there any ground rules in terms of era? Just for the sake of fairness - I’m gonna eliminate The Hammer from the list. He would be at the top of every Braves all-time great list…so let’s be fair.

If you’re going back to ‘66 you need to include Felix Milan and Niekro.

Okay - let’s just stay with 1990 until now (that way I can include Murph).

Based on defense - here’s my team:

P - Maddux C - Charlie O’Brien 1B - The Big Cat 2B - Lemmer ss - Edgar 3B - Vinny OF - Andruw, Murph & Grissom

By jim

June 25, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

J-Row,

Escobar put Bobby in the hole as far as his bench was concerned. Getting a leadoff hitter on base in the 8th in front of the top of the order seemed like the best opportunity to win. You have to think that the 9th inning pitcher is better than the 8th inning setup man and that they needed a second base runner to get to the middle of the order with a chance to tie the score. If Chipper doesn’t bat in the 8th, there are 10 batters that need to come up (with 6 outs to go) before the pitcher’s spot comes up again. He would most likely not get another chance to bat if nothing happened in the 8th. Using Lillibridge to pinch run was the first mistake. All that was needed was a fast runner who could score from 2nd on a single and Jair could do that. The lead runner in the 8th inning was not carrying the tying run.

If the 9th inning played out with the Braves down a run, McCann on first and none out and Chipper was still available, how is he used? Do you pinch run Lillibridge here? (I would—his running skills are much better than his hitting skills at this point in his career.) If Infante bunts, do you pinch hit Chipper for JF? No he’s walked and the game is left up to B. Jones and Corky.
Then JF bats, rolls out weakly to SS, and the runner moves to third with 2 outs. With Chipper still available, Yost pitches to Brandon - A better option than Corky, but Chipper does not bat unless Brandon gets on base or ties the game. If Brandon walks, Yost probably walks Chipper and lets Blanco decide the game. Cox lost a lot of his flexibility with the bench when Escobar got heaved and Gotay had to go into the game. The big mistake Cox made was asking Infante to bunt and wasting the best player he had left to continue the rally. He gave the struggling pitcher an out and probably did not anticipate Yost’s move to walk Brandon and leave the outcome of the game up to Corky.

By STRETCH

June 25, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Can someone tell me how many times has Yunel been caught off the bag OR thrown out standing up, OR doubled up while on base this season so far??? Someone has to know this.

I blame it ALL on management. Teams are going to have bad nights. That part is true, but when you cant hold leads, get a timely hit here and there and most of all, NOT be able to do the fundamental things, then its the personnel you have aquired! DUHHHH!

This is all on Bobby Cox, Wren and the lackadaisel staff along with the liars at Liberty Media(they claim they had more money to spend)…yeah right!

Gambling on 2 40 something pitchers, another who cant fart without hurting is petorial muscle, a broke back CF and damaged goods they aquired (Sorianno, Gonzo) to shore a bunch of unproven guys in the pen is a recipe for a last place finish. Thank you Nationals!

Couple all the above with a RF who just took Andrew Jones’ place in the order and who cant see anything, NO leadoff hitter, guys who cant bunt, then they will of course find ways to loose, day in and day out.

And pitching? You just dont know what you are going to get. Its a crapshoot…night in and night out.

WHY IS CORKY MILLER(BEER) ON THIS TEAM STILL?

By Kashi

June 25, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

TO Carroll Rogers and Thanks for correcting me Eleanor, this is what happens when you stay up late at night and take few more sips out of crapy plays and frustration…end result - Can’t focus on blogs here. I guess our guys are having those Chipper, Glavine Chardonnay in club house before the game to put shows like last night. LOL

By Peter

June 25, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Yes Frenchy with 2 errors yesterday……he is a liability, and needs to go to minors to work on his game!

By BravesFan79

June 25, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Bobbys player personell choices the past 3 or so seasons have been shaky at best! Pena should of never been let go, no way woodward should of ever been signed, and in NO WAY should of been around all season.
We also refused to send a struggling Thorman down all of last year.

These backup player choices are the difference bt a .500 club… and a team 10 games +

Dont even get me started on all the games we threw away last year giving Redmen start after start after start of complete crap. It was like watching woodwards at bats. You know it was doomed for failure before it happened. Everyone seemed to know…. except the person that mattered most…. Bobby Cox!

By Alan

June 25, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

GT80, you make a good point about the Braves’ bench (Corky Miller is a joke; I don’t understand why Brayan Pena was let go, either). However, two key bench players are on the DL, Matt Diaz and Martin Prado. I honestly have no problem with Gotay and Norton — both have had some big hits this season. Before anyone is too critical of the bench, take a good look at other teams’ backup players. Are they really that much better than the Braves’ guys? I don’t think so. It all comes back to the day-to-day lineup not getting the job done. As bad as last night’s game was defensively, the Brewers scored only 4 runs. As in so many other games this season, the Braves’ starting lineup squandered a lot of opportunities — against Dave Bush of all people. We all can second-guess Bobby’s tactical decisions until we’re blue in the face — and I agree that Chipper was misused to lead off the 8th inning — but please look at the game in its entirety and lay most of the blame where it belongs, on the regular players, who (aside from Chipper and B-Mac) have been consistently inconsistent all season.

By Shamus Thacker

June 25, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

If a ball got by Glen Hubbard, it was because he couldn’t get his glove, chest, crotch, or face, in front of it. If ever there was a gamer, it was Glen. He wouldn’t rub a hbp if it struck him between the eyes. Hammy could learn a lot from Hubby!

By AZBravoFan

June 25, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

I can’t fault Bobby for using up Chipper in the 8th. You gotta have baserunners and Mr. .400 has a way better chance at getting on base than Lillibridge at this point. Same with bunting Infante. Gotta get the tying run in scoring position at home with a couple shots to get him in. The only thing I might have done differently would be pinch hit with either Jo-Jo or Huddy instead of Corky. I know BC would never slap a player in the face like that, but jeez, .100?

By Carroll Rogers

June 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

I like the Walt Weiss suggestions. I won’t ever get over the bases loaded, nobody-out play he made in the Astrodome in 1999.

GT80, excuse me if I’m wasting etherspace. Are we short on it now?…If every bench guy hit .300 they wouldn’t be bench guys.

RSM, by all means, turn back the clock…Good morning Lew.

By stynes

June 25, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

I had a chance to hear DOB on Tomahawk Talk on 680 The Fan this morning. I don’t usually get to catch that but this morning I did. DOB made a couple of points I thought were pretty interesting. I’d be interested to hear what you guys think.

1. The priority to obtain in a trade is a right handed bat in left field, not a pitcher. I’m with DOB on this one. I’ve heard X Nady’s named mentioned along with Jason Bay and a couple of others. What do you guys think about those names and who would the Braves give up to get someone like that?

2. I also loooved DOB’s point about the players’ thoughts being conditioned by “the glory days.” I had never thought about it quite like that but it makes a lot of sense. What do you guys think? For those that didn’t hear, DOB said he thinks the team’s lack of concentration? focus? importance? whatever it is on the little things - bunting a runner over, hitting behind a runner, putting the ball in play - is in part because for so long the Braves had the high payroll, as much talent as anyone, and could afford to get away with waiting for the extra base hit or the 3 run homer. They had lock down starting pitching and several position players every year that were one of the tops at their position. Now with a team that’s a more balanced combination of younger guys (Franceour, KJ, Escobar, Blanco, BJ, even McCann) and veterans that aren’t quite superstars (Kotsay, Diaz) they can’t afford to have that same superstar mindset but because they did for so long it’s been something of a hard habit to break. Whether or not thats’ really the cause, I obviously have no idea but I do find it quite plausible. It would seem to explain a lot. What do you guys think?

By mjphilli

June 25, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Justice? How many balls did we see one-hop past him after a dramatic slide? He let in way more runs than he drove in. Good arm, though.

By Ralph

June 25, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter, who, in the past would do a better job in the out field, one still held their breath when a a ball was hit to Jordan or Gant, they were not quality outfielders. No one from the past can help today’s Braves, which are slowly fall apart, and embarrassing themselves, every time they play the game. Bobby Cox does not have control of the team, and no can help the team, only a new approach, and stop picking the fair hair boy approach, may bring the team to some respectability. When a team play the Braves, they become good a team, that should tell you something. Yunel Escobar, should be bench for a couple of game, and Francoeur, should be send down to the minors, or put on the disable list, and help him, get his head together, or use him as a part time player, he is not helping the Braves one bit, and tell him to stop listing to Pendleton. The Braves organization, should know whats wrong, they just don’t want to, correct the number of problems the Braves have, beginning with the manager, and hitting coach, etc, they need to clean house.

By I HATE BRAVES FAN

June 25, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Ok people this is getting REALLY OLD!!!!!! I am the world’s biggest braves fan, and I just want to say that I hate everyone else that is a Braves Fan. Nobody on this stupid blog is better than anybody out on that baseball diomand, and if you think so than come over to my house and let me see how you take infield/or outfield. Give them a break!!!!!!! OH wow Jeff made one error??? WHOA!!!!!!! Does no one remeber how much everybody praised him last year when he threw out runners all the time!!! THE REASON NO ONE PRAISES IHIM NOW IS BECASUE THE RUNNERS RESPECT HIS ARM AND DO NOT RUN ANYMORE ON IT!!!! Now leave him alone!!!! How come somebody has a slump (Even an extended slump) and yall right them off!!! First thing, “OH he sucks” or “get him out here, he is terrible” or ” what is bobby thinking playing him”“!!! THIS $hit gets old!!!! Now moving to Yunel, so he made to boots yesterday, oh wow big deal!?!>!!>!>>! HE has got the most talent on this team, and will one day become one of the worlds best shortstops!!! AN also leave infante out of this. He made one little error when he was forced to fill in for yunel, so what!!!! THERE THE FREAKING BRAVES AMERICA’s TEAM!!!! SO QUIT COMPLAINGING ABOUT THEM!!! I just cant wait to here yalls retarded commets in october when we are in the playoffs, “OH I LOVE THE BRAVES!!!” LISTEN IF YOU DONT LIKE THEM TURN THEM OFF!!!!!!!! Georgia gets beat 19-10 by fresno, did I get mad and start cussing the pitchers and defense, no I simply just said well that sucked and went to bed!!! SO I HATE EVERYONE ON THIS BLOG!!!!! GO BRAVES! AND GO GEORGE BUSH, AND I HOPE OBAMA LOSES!

By Moby Grape

June 25, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Andres Thomas for short stop. *BravesDawg8

Thomas? in 4 years of often part time play he made almost 100 errors with a range factor less than average. This is your best defensive SS, or your worst?

By Kevin C

June 25, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Last night was a microcosm of the season.

Yunel needs to be taken aside and told to shut up and play—he is on a list now, strikes off the plate on him are strikes, he will not get another close call this season

Frenchy—needs to be sent down, he is killing us

Tex—I know his defense is good but when does he ever come through in the clutch? Last night—no pressure in the 9th

Bobby—yes we have had injuries but Corky Miller should be playing softball right now—will he start today?—There are 3 outs

A question for all, since Leo left, has Bobby and his game manangement changed? I do not know just throwing it out

By David

June 25, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Carroll, did you hear about the Pete Rose/ARod connection? Seems as though Charlie Hustle pulled A Rod out of that slump last year and has been coaching/mentoring him ever since Frenchy needs something like that? His first advice to him was to go to the plate and “try to hit the ball and drive it right at the pitcher” He went bombs out right after that. I am not saying he needs to do the same but he does need something different, maybe TP being arounbd every day, he just needs a change of pace… and he is the key to the second half (one of the keys)

By jim

June 25, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

I agree with stretch. Overlord wants to punish KJ for dropping the pop up against the Phils. That was a terrible error in that spot, but it was a physical error and they happen. He did not compound the error by not hustling and making the play on the trail runner. We saw Hardy almost make a similar (but far less critical) error Monday night. Escobar getting thrown out of the game, given that the Braves were already shorthanded, was an egregious mental error, and that should be punished with a benching. (Given the roster situation, however, there is not a good opportunity to do so without further hurting the team.)

Today is Brian McCann bobblehead day, but since it is a day game after a night game and Campillo is starting, do we have to endure an encore appearance of Corky? Talk about a AAA lineup — Blanco, Yunel, KJ, Tex, Infante, B. Jones/Norton, JF, Corky, Campillo. (I know that Cox will have 643 hitting higher than 7th.)

By ernesto

June 25, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

And somone’s been hitting the Sherry hard and the post button multiple times

By Dan in NC

June 25, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Here’s my all-time defensive team…

P: Maddux, C: Perez, 1B: Tex, 2B: Lemke, SS: Renteria, 3B:, Chipper, OF: Andruw, Murph, Otis Nixon

By J-Row

June 25, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

GT80, JIM, & Bobby’s Cox

Alright, GT80- right on man. I couldn’t imagine a bigger waste of time as related to this “all-defensive” team topic. Get on with the issue at hand, and face the facts Carroll.

Jim, that is a very insightful proposition of events. I agree the loss of Escobar made it tough on Bobby. Getting Chipper (or pinch runner) on in front of the top of order seems like a great idea. Except, the top of order is really more like 6-7 or 7-8 hitters at best. Especially when considering the lefty-lefty match up of Blanco and KJ being two of those “top of order” batters due up. Blanco’s average against a side-arm lefty….probably about .090 at best. KJ not too much better. Also, who says Chipper can only hit for the pitchers spot, Bobby would not have had to wait for that spot to come up to use him.

Bobby’s Cox-

Nice, I would love to see Javy up there in that situation, or like you said….at least Huddy I guess. Corky for president.

By HighCheese

June 25, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Eddie Perez caught 382 games for the Braves and had a .991 fielding percentage.

Javy Lopez caught 1105 games for the Braves and had a .992 fielding percentage.

I think people forget how good Javy was behind the plate even though he didn’t catch for Maddux.

By Carroll Rogers

June 25, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Wow, i was going to say somebody get “I hate” some coffee or something, but then I saw the number of time he clicked “post.” Ease up, buddy.

By DOG THE MAN

June 25, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

1B - TEX, 2B Hubbard, SS - Belliard, 3B - C Jones, LF - Roland Office, CF - ANdruw Jones, RF - Dale Murphy.. And if I can get a DH H Aaron.. By the way don’t put G Bush in the same breath with the Braves. Why do you want to sully the Braves name by mentioning him… Bring on Obama..

By superadam

June 25, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I think you mase your point I hate braces fan

By BravesRic

June 25, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Reportedly seen or heard from last night’s game…

Brewers took shirts out of pants (celebrating another win) BEFORE Corky stepped in the batter’s box to pinch-hit; Ned Yost breaking a rib laughing when he realized Bobby was down to Corky as last regular player to pinch-hit; Bobby muttering he should have uased Corky topinch-rin for McCann and Jair to pinch-hit; Brewers announcers saying “put a Cork(y) in it”; this one’s over.

By hk

June 25, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

… current ‘MVP’ (Runs + HR’s + RBI’s) …

… projected year-end values …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/mvp08a.htm

… (a changing of the guard :))

By Rico

June 25, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

He was a one season flash here in Atlanta, but Rico Brogna could flat out pick-it at first base. Wally Joyner wasn’t bad either…maybe a little past his prime when we got him.

Don’t forget about Michael Tucker in RF. Not a lot of arm, but he could go get ‘em with anyone.

The only glaring mistake I see is that Charlie O’Brien was easily the best catcher we ever had. Heck, with the exception of Charles Johnson in Florida, he might have been the best in the league while we had him.

By J-Row

June 25, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

JIM you are my new favorite

AAA line-up for sure. The mere thought of these guys trying to score runs makes me cringe. Any chance B-mac sucks it up and plays today? Would Bobby let him if he insisted?

By brent a.

June 25, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

J-Row,

I was thinking about posting something similar to your earlier post, but much simpler.

The mere fact that Corky Miller made the final out for the Braves in a one-run loss, sheds vast light on why this team is mired in mediocrity.

By Mike

June 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Clete Boyer at 3B.

Felix Millan at 2B.

A young Hank Aaron in RF.

By the way, have you been watching the CWS? The fundamentals displayed by those college teams quite often put those displayed by the “professionals” on the Braves to shame. Do the coaches on this team do any coaching and if they do, does anyone on the team listen to them?

By jim

June 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

J-Row,

KJ is hitting over 300 against lefties. Chipper would not have to bat for just the pitcher, but would not have been used before Infante, and probably not for Infante, even if he were not bunting. That leaves 7, 8, and 9 in the order with 1 out and a man on second. Chipper can not be used to hit for JF, he would only be walked. If JF does not succeed in getting the runner in (he didn’t), then Chipper cannot be used to hit for B. Jones for the same reason. Chipper being available makes B. Jones decide the game instead of Corky, but in just about any scenario he does not get to hit in the 9th.

Given the options of who was left to hit after Infante, the decision to bunt was terrible! Chipper being available or not, was almost irrelevant.

By Salty

June 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Any chance The Cow can play shortstop?

Oh, Lew…not another ‘hoofer’ in the field! Last night, poor ol’ Charlie thought he was back in A ball!

By GT80

June 25, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Carroll, OK, I guess there is plenty of space to talk about anything and everything. I was just so frustrated by last nights game that I couldn’t see going through old times to figure out something totally fantasy, not when I can’t see straight because of this crap product my hometown team is putting out on the field.

I find it interesting that folks like Jim and J-Row seem to be able to analyze managerial moves better than Bobby seems to be able to.

Folks, we have 20 1 run losses this year. 20! I believe we are 5-20 in 1 run games.

You would think the manager could make a few decisions to change the outcome in so many tight games at least a few times. If we pull out just 5 more of those games and were 10-15 in those games we are in 1st place. You can’t tell me that the manager doesn’t have the ability to make a difference in some of these games.

By Lew

June 25, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Braves-DawgFan-Sorry Dude. Langerhans was less than average at the plate, but was an incredibly good left fielder. Didn’t you ever watch him play? With him in left, Andruw in center and Frenchy (the last couple year’s version) in right, we had the best defensive outfield in baseball.

I know Langerhans left the Braves’ faithful unfulfilled with his .052 Batting Average, but his defense was the polar opposite quality wise.

By McFann©

June 25, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Jim Today is Brian McCann bobblehead day, but since it is a day game after a night game and Campillo is starting, do we have to endure an encore appearance of Corky?

Well, we’ll soon find out.

I’m off to the ballpark. Section 137 is calling.

By KC

June 25, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

More good news: Jeff Suppan has a 2.79 ERA in has last 5 starts.

Swell.

By Alan

June 25, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Stynes, regarding DOB’s radio interview (didn’t listen; I’m at work - sort of - in Pennsylvania), I don’t get point #2 at all. He didn’t really say that today’s Braves are less-than-fundamentally sound because they’ve been “conditioned by the great pitching and power hitting of the glory days”, did he? I think it’s fair to say that we fans were spoiled during the so-called glory days, and now it’s hard for US to accept (“stomach” is probably a more accurate word) the mediocrity of the past two-and-a-half years. Regarding point #1, a power bat in LF (and RF, for that matter) would be my top priority, too. My concern would be the cost. A trade with any non-contender (Pirates, Royals, Rockies, for example) would require giving up 2 or 3 good, young prospects. I don’t think Bay or Nady is worth that price, even though I think either guy would help the Braves a lot. I’d also be reluctant to part with any regular position player, with the possible exception of Francoeur, and his value right now is negligible. Unlike so many others here, I like the Braves’ lineup. They’re not performing well right now, but I don’t think blowing the whole thing up is the answer — for this year or the future.

By Remo

June 25, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

I have to go with Justice. He always played every game like a game 7 and was a solid outfielder. If it was catchable Justice was there.

This current team acts, many times, like it has no heart. Unless it is Chipper up there.

By ncscoots

June 25, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Ever heard that old saw about dog owners who begin to look like their dogs? I’m beginning to think this blog is the same way.

N8 harps on the fact that the team is .500 for the last, oh, however long it is (N8 can fill in the blank for me). Mediocre. And, frankly, for about the same period of time, so has been the blog.

When N8 first came here (as nathan, in those days), he was conspicuous by his presence as a ranting, Chinese-water-torture-relentless negifier (and I say that with a lotta love, my man, LOL). Remember those days, nathan? Remember some of the folks who contributed something other than diatribe? When you were as likely to find conversation about Tombstone as you were about batting averages? nathan howled, the rest of us nodded our heads (because, occasionally, he was not only right, but entertaining), and then moved on to something else. Oh, baseball was discussed…points were made, opinions vouchsafed, and even some rancor was produced. But not this. Nothing like this.

Now, N8 is merely the sharpest arrowhead in the quiver, imparting only a single wound as part of outrageous fortune. As the team’s fortunes have trended downward, he’s been joined by a multitude of bloggers with contributions (a generic term) in the same vein. He is no longer alone. For him, I am happy. The bowl of sad tastes better when shared, I’ve heard.

Unfortunately, a blog strictly about baseball (unlike a subject-diverse blog with baseball as a unifying theme) requires a high-quality level of discussion about the game, else it becomes, well, mediocre. And there we sit. Despite the efforts of DOB, Carroll, and a handful of bloggers.

The Braves are mediocre, you say? I say, “We’ve become our dog.”

By Huge

June 25, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Took my 5 year old to his first Braves game last night. I’ve seen better defense at one of his tee ball games. A team meeting is in order!

By Clyde

June 25, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Anyone remember Charles Thomas in left field? That was only a few years ago, but he was outstanding…until we traded him to Oakland.

By Ramblin Wrecker

June 25, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

What no Murph?!? He played some stellar defense and is the mold from which Frenchy was cut from.

By Hoosier Aaron

June 25, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

To: Rico

I’m glad to see that someone else appreciated Charlie O’Brien as a defensive master. Sure - he was a lifetime .220 hitter or so. But make no mistake about it - in terms of defensive fundamentals behind the plate - Charlie is the king. He was fun to watch. I don’t know what he is doing today - but I’d like to see him on our bench (as a coach). Heck - if we are satisfied with a .103 hitting back up catcher…..

By varoadrunner

June 25, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

On a normal day (or night) I’d take our current lineup with only a couple exceptions: P - Hudson C - McCann 1b - TEX 2b - Lemke ss - Escobar (wish he would mature quicker) 3b - Chipper lf - Diaz (But I want last year’s version) CF - Kotsay RF - Justice

By jch

June 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Interesting, other than Tex (who won’t be here much longer) and the ‘95 vintage Chipper, no current players were chosen.

What does that tell us???

By N8

June 25, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

If we’re talking pure defense at 3B, it has to be Vinny Castilla in his second go-round with the Braves.

It was MUCH MORE of a shame that he didn’t win the GG in 2002 (.982 fielding percentage and only 6 errors in 139 games), than it was for Chipper last year (.971 fielding percentage and 8 errors in 126 games).

As for RF, it was only one season, but JD Drew should get the nod. Lets not forget the all-out effort that Tucker gave in 97, either.

1B? Tex and LaRoche are a wash, though Tex has a couple of GG’s already. As long as Derek Lee is playing, not too many people are gonna win the NL GG.

Theoretically, one could give CF AND LF to Andruw. He played LF in 1997 when Lofton was in Atlanta.

Catcher? If just on defensive skills, Henry Blanco or Charlie O’Brien.

By Lew

June 25, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Clyde-I still have a couple of Kudzu Kids Tee shirts. Never worn them, but……

By Lorena Bobbitt

June 25, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

The Braves are 3rd in the NL in hitting, 2nd in pitching, and only 4th in their division standings. Think about that. It’s almost impossible to hit well and pitch well, and lose more than you win.

This team is clearly not as good as the sum of its parts, and Bobby Cox has to get the blame for this. If he gets all the credit for winning with great talent, he also has to be at fault for losing with good talent. Because talent isn’t enough to overcome playing without heart. Without fundamentals. Without discipline. Without enthusiasm. With a low baseball IQ. With the worst players continually being put into crucial situations because of indefensible decisions by the manager. No one has that much talent.

Last night’s game was just another example of how valuable Bobby Cox is to the opposing team’s chances of overcoming the Braves’ superior talent. Any other manager in baseball would’ve saved Chipper for when it mattered, when he could do some damage. Instead, Bobby ends up with Corky Miller for the most important AB of the game. Corky f’n Miller, who obviously shouldn’t even be on a major league roster. And sadly, decisions like this have become the norm rather than the exception. Bobby doesn’t just save it for the playoffs any more.

I just don’t know how the Cox apologists can continue to make excuses for such an incompetent manager. The game has clearly passed him by…

The time has come to sever ties with Cox!

By MGL

June 25, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Someone slammed Infante earlier and I think that is unfair. The guy has been asked to play all over the field, and if I remember correctly, the error was on his first play after a surprise move from 3rd to SS. I think he is the best bench player this team has had in a long time. Give him a break.

By Tony Dobson

June 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Tough call in RF. I love Frenchy, especially his cannon for an arm, but Jordan could be tough. I particularly remember one great catch I saw him make in person against the Marlins in Miami. Long run, wall approaching, needed to slide in foul ground to make the catch… no problem. Loved his attitude, wish he could have won a ring with us.

Carroll, when you said “Yes it matters. And yes that was the easiest one” about Maddux I thought for a second you were talking about the mess he and Brian Hunter made of that bunt in game 1 of the 1999 World Series. That really mattered.

(Tries again to block out that particular memory… fails miserably.)

By RedEyedAndBlue

June 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

For fielding, I’d take Chris Chambliss over Tex. I also think Vinny Castilla the best fielding 3B that I’ve seen play for the Braves. No contest. Braves thought so much of his D that they moved Chipper to LF. That’s proof enough for me. Also agreed with above suggestions in re: Walt Weiss.

By 22oz

June 25, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if it was psoted last night or not, but Foxsports.com has an article up about Francouer. It basically says we are stuck with him for now, which is about the truth:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8276144/Braves-face-difficult-choices-with-struggling-Francoeur

By N8

June 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

ncscoots

Your 11:17 post made me laugh out loud.

Good stuff.

Contrary to popular belief, I would be much happier if the Braves were to prove me wrong night after night, allowing you guys to call me crazy like you used to.

But unfortunately, my sarcastic (and often over the top) rants, usually come true, which sucks.

Sure, I get a little enjoyment when somebody calls me out, and the Braves prove me right. But it’s considerably LESS enjoyment than I would get if they were playing .550 - .600 ball.

So, in closing, you’re right…the bowl of sad does taste much better when shared. However, it pales in comparison to what a little bite of “happy” would taste like a little more often.

By Lew

June 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Lorena-And with a AAA team at the moment. Gotay, Norton, Blanco and Infante? Is this all the talent you claim is there? The game hasn’t passed Cox by, just that with Diaz, Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper, Prado, Soriano, et al on the DL or unavailable,there is nowhere near the talent level of which you speak left on the field.

Yesterday was a pitiful spectacle, but it wasn’t because we had all this underperforming talent on the field. We had substitutes.

By TennesseePaul

June 25, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

‘bout last night… The need for a team leader is growing ever more apparent. So while I could go through and list all my favorite fielders at each position, perhaps what this team really needs is a list of all the real leaders that wore the uniform.

By Interested Observer

June 25, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Nothing against Eddie Perez, but has anyone mentioned Charlie O’Brien at catcher? Maddux loved throwing to him, and he could block the plate better than anyone.

By ManOfTeal

June 25, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

The Braves….LOL…..Go Marlins!!!!

By STRETCH

June 25, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Lorena Bobbitt,

THANKS, i see it your way as well, but too bad management, just like the Hawks and Falcons will continue to screw it up. As long as Bobby goes to his physician and say ” 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.” while slipping a Ben Franklin or 2 or 3 or 4 to the guy when he should be saying A. D. E. K. T. Q. Y… the Braves will continue be a 3rd or 4th place team. CLEARY THE GAME HAS PASSED HIM BY!!!

By varoadrunner

June 25, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

I really think that “I HATE” has given us the most ignorant blog I’ve seen on here. He rants about how Frenchy made an error and that runners are afraid to run…. was that except for last night when they scored a run when if Frenchy had not air-mailed the ball to the backstop, the game would havebeen tied in the 9th. Kendall really looked scared as he scored or Frenchy’s throw.

Take your ignorant rant somewhere else. There are people blogging on here that actually know what they are talking about and CLEARLY you AIN’T one of them!

Take it to the Met’s blog - they can use more stupidity.

By StingerSplash

June 25, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Few people remember just how big Belliard’s running backhand catch of Carlos Baerga’s foul pop down the left field line in the ninth inning of Game 6 was. That took a dangerous bat out of the Indians’ hands when they were only down a run. And at that time, Baerga was a terrific hitters. Best Braves defensive RF of this generation — how bout some love for J.D. Drew? Speed, arm, instincts.

By flange1

June 25, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

22ozs,

Thanks for the Frenchy article. I think it makes alot of really good points.

The main one being that he has to stop trying to be everything to everyone.

By Carolina Matt

June 25, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

If the game is on the line I want (going around the horn): Chipper, Edgar, Lemke and Texiera…these are guys that are not only excellent fielders, but they also show a coolness and uncanny mental toughness when it really matters.

And how about Greg Norton in LF? I’ve seen him on Baseball Tonight laying out for a few balls this year…which is more than I can say for our forsaken right-fielder…

By Tomy Fournier

June 25, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

ATLANTA = %%%$$##@@@@*%%%@@@@ + MR.COX AND COACHS = &&*%%%$$###@@@@…JUST LIKE THAT…SH…..!!!!

By Carroll Rogers

June 25, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

N8, good point about Andruw Jones in LF and CF…and I take it one step further. Back in Class A Macon, he used to play both at once! Ask George Lombard how many balls Andruw caught right in front of his face…

GT80, I hear ya. And the one-run stuff is a very serious issue. I just look at last night’s game and say it was defense that cost them so many runs to begin with. that’s what put them in a position where one move here and there cost them.

And I’m thinking Escobar’s getting thrown out probably cost them bigger than any managerial move. Maybe he needs to learn the count to 10 rule. (not that i’m any good at that one, but i hear it helps!)

i did think Escobar would be my shortstop. just hard to say so after last night!

tony, forgot about that play. ouch. but i still say maddux, hands down.

By Will

June 25, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

How about the Braves “Get Defensive” from about 1-4 PM today! Last nights game was pathetic. 4-6 weeks ago Alot of people kept saying all the bad breaks are gonna even out for the braves, but in reality what has evened out is the torrid home winning percentage. .500 at home and this team might as well make their tee times and for the first of October.

By nolie

June 25, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

I don’t get all the Justice-for-the -defense fans. The guy had some really terrible years; 8 errors one year in about 100 games and 11 errors in another year in about 100 games. those are just plain bad numbers. There have been any number of better defensive RFers in Atlanta than he was. After leaving he was almost never used in RF by his other teams.

By etownbrave

June 25, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Please help me keep up with the game today folks, as I am stuck at work with dial-up and of course, no tv because the dreaded Peachtree channel has the game and not available on dish. Hope I can get game on radio but will watch blog just in case. Thanks for the early post Ms Rogers!

By rlp-political

June 25, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

The same old braves… the best PR team in the league.

Fire Bobby Coxs !!

By N8

June 25, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Carroll

Too funny about Andruw and Lombard.

It’s too early to determine if Yunel is better than Furcal defensively.

Once Furcal got those “routine play” errors out of his system, he was outstanding. Weiss was EXTREMELY solid, as was Belliard.

I’ll bring it up every time his name is mentioned. Belliard’s play in the top of the 9th in Game 6 of the 95 WS with Lofton hitting (running down that foul ball by the bullpen down the LF line), was/is such and under-rated play.

I’ll never forget it. Blauser (who was left off the WS roster), doesn’t make that play, and with Lofton at the plate in his prime, that play very well might have ensured WS victory.

By M. R. Biggins

June 25, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget, there is still no way to defend against a walk. How many leadoff walks are scoring this season?

By ernesto

June 25, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

2/3 of our starting outfield - on the shelf

3/5 of the planned starting rotation (if you count Hampton) - on the shelf

1/4 of our starting infield - on the shelf

starting shortstop - banged up

hottest bat on team - out

Closer - out

Set up man - out

RF - big bat underproducing big time

1B - big bat just waking up in late June

Yeah, it’s Bobby’s fault we’re 3 games under .500. Good call.

By Will

June 25, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I agree with Walt Weiss being a good defensive short stop. I also will never forget that play in 1999 in the NLDS. I remember standing up behind my couch in dorm room and thinking there was no way in hell the Braves were getting out of that jam.

By gbaucum

June 25, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

If you are going to go all the way back to Hubbard for 2nd base, then you should have Dale Murphy in right field. I think he had something like 5 Gold Gloves. I’d put him in center if not for Andruw Jones.

By Berg

June 25, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

After reading comments about some forgotten defensive wizards, how about:

C - Charlie O’Brian P - Doggie 1B - Rico Brogna 2B - Mark Lemke SS - Walt Weiss 3B - Vinny Castilla LF - Charles Thomas CF - Andruw Jones RF - Michael Tucker

Any thoughts on the worst defensive team of all time? Raffy, Biff, etc.

By Lorena Bobbitt

June 25, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Lew,

With a little discipline, Escobar doesn’t pull that stunt last night. That’s what happens when the manager is a cheerleader, players think they can get away with anything.

Frenchy continues to get rewarded with a prime spot in the order, despite being undisciplined and uncoachable. If Cox would hold players accountable, or at least put them in a position where they’re less likely to fail (like the 8-hole), that would be acting in the best interests of the player and the team.

Blanco batting leadoff makes no sense. Corky Miller being on the roster makes no sense. You think Bobby has nothing to do with those decisions?

If the team is mentally unprepared to play, like the Braves were last night, then the manager is at fault. Even if this is a AAA team, as you say, AAA teams don’t make 4 errors in 5 innings. Unacceptable.

And despite all that, if Cox just makes the decision that any competent major league manager would make…which is, to not lead off the 8th inning with your best pinch hitter (Chipper), when you could potentially use him in the 9th with the game on the line…then the Braves might win anyway.

I repeat:

The time has come to sever ties with Cox!

By Moby Grape

June 25, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

* It’s a brooding game*

Thanks for that one on the previous blog, Doug. I really enjoyed reading it. So much truth revealed about these kids, and as we have talked many times, gives insight into the chances of the vast majority. And just think, compared to what most of us can do, ever did, or ever will do on a baseball field, these failures and strugglers are really good baseball players. The odds are greatly stacked against one ever reaching the bigs, and as the saying goes, even harder to stay there. Wonderful article I thought.

By RedEyedAndBlue

June 25, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

if there’s a tie at a position defensively, i’ll give the edge every time to the player who played at fulton county stadium. while schuerholz and cox improved the field in the early 90s, it was still terrible.

with that in mind, bruce benedict and greg olson were pretty darn good catchers too - admittedly not as good as o’brien and eddie perez.

By JWILLI120

June 25, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

i would just like to add marquis grissom to the list of best defensive outfield

By Robin

June 25, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

I Hate: There’s an old saying that carries a lot of weight -

“The BEST coaches were/are NEVER the best players.”

Lotta truth in that too. Think about it.

By J.D. Phillips

June 25, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

One run loses, injuries galore, Escobar’s personality, Frenchy’s demise, K.J. The Drop which has become as famous as Otis Nixon’s The Catch, Corky Miller who is hitting 100 points lower that Woodward, talk of Chuck James being a starter for about the 15th time; someone please tell me there are better times ahead for this team.

By David O'Brien

June 25, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Escobar’s scratched from lineup, they insist because he’s got a sore left shoulder after diving back to the bag on the play when he was caught by Prince Fielder on unassisted double play. The play that led to Escobar’s ejection.

He tried to swing in batting practice today, took a few cuts and pulled the plug on that. Gotay is playing short and batting second.

I’ll start a new blog now.

By jim

June 25, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Tenn. Paul,

I don’t know what you mean by needing a team leader. What’s this person, or these persons supposed to do? This isn’t football! I think our right fielder is trying too hard to be such a “team leader” and it is causing him to press both offensively and defensively. The main thing a leader needs to have, if he is to be a leader is followers. Maybe we need more team followers. The things we need from such a leader is the ability to get a clutch hit (higher BA in these situations than in other situations.) or to consistently make a run-saving play in the field.

The thing we should see from the “followers” would be tougher at bats — I see Chipper, McCann, KJ, and Blanco, consistently getting deeper into the count and making the pitcher work — and smart plays in the field — hitting the cutoff man, making smart baserunning decisions, etc.

Chipper has been playing hurt and hitting about 400 all year. Is this the performance of a leader? Wasn’t Smoltz a leader both vocally and by performance? Hudson seems to have evidenced some leadership traits as well. Maybe what this team really needs are more talented followers.

By Harpie

June 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

1)THIS TEAM IS SCREWED UP IN THE HEAD! 2)SEND FRANCOEUR TO THE MINORS.

By AdirondackDave

June 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Hate to put anybody in front of Chipper but Castilla had the glove.

By Will

June 25, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

N8, You are definitely right about that Belliard play in 95 game 6. If Lofton gets on base that at bat he probably steals at least 2nd and probably 3rd and Indians would have tied the game. Who knows what would have happened after that.

By Harpie

June 25, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

WHAT’S THE FRICKIN PROBLEM? MY COMMENTS NEVER GO THROUGH…

By Robin

June 25, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

JD: Wish I had something to tell ya buddy …

…just waiting on our “once patented” second-half surge. Then we’ll see wassup I suppose.

Yup,looks pretty bad right now, let’s get a win today!

By mrj

June 25, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

No contest on 1b. Tex is the best. Galarraga had reliable hands, no range. P- Maddux. Not just Braves, All-Time. C - too many faces with not enough tenure to measure. McCann is gonna be a good one too though! 3b is tough, but Chipper, is tough as they come. TP was great too. SS… alot of good ones. I guess Furcal was the most reliable day in and day out. RF - Justice, CF AJones… LF- Was Claudell Washington an LF’er?

By mcdawg

June 25, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

-glenn hubbard

-A.J.

-Otis Nixon

-JD Drew had the best arm of anyone in the outfield

-G. Maddux

By Efrim

June 25, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

This team doesn’t need a leader. They need production from the outfield and another right handed bullpen arm.

By ronald

June 25, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Have we forgotten the Hammer? Hank was an outstanding defensive player. I’d take him over anyone else.

As for last night’s game; We had a major problem in the bottom of the 9th. Imagine, we have the winning run at 3rd, 90’ away from home. Who do we have left to send up to pinch hit? Corky *&#@ Miller, that’s right, Corky Miller and his impressive .105 average. We are reduced to this, Minor league players filling in for the center fielder with the bad back, minor league players filling in for Chipper “can’t wait to see what my next injury is going to be” Jones, a minor league player filling in for Yunel “I still have great skills but still haven’t learned how to play the game” Escobar and Corky Miller. There is no reason whatsoever for Corky Miller to be on any big league roster. I doubt seriously that he could start for any of our minor league teams above the rookie league. This all adds up to management knew what our needs were and did nothing to fill those needs. This is not a good team. I’d say they played like a high school team last night (and several nights lately) but that would really be an insult to a good high school team.

By 22oz

June 25, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Who woulda thought before the year started that at this point in the season JoJo Reyes would be the only lefty in our starting rotation?

By Alan

June 25, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Lorena, you make some good points. I, too, have been perplexed that almost all season the Braves’ team batting average has been in the top three, as has their team ERA. The talent is there, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what she/he is talking about. So, you’re right — some responsibility has to fall on the manager, as it should. But not all of it, by any means. The players have to play; sadly, in big spots (that is, close games) the hitters and the pitchers have failed more often than they’ve succeeded. Much more. Hence, the Braves’ miserable record in 1-run games. Strategy comes into play in close games, of course, as it did last night. But most often it’s about execution, and that’s the players’ responsibility. They’re not coming through in the clutch, hitters and pitchers, but mostly hitters. Amazingly, the mediocre Braves are in the NL East race - like every other team, except the Nationals. Which means the NL East is mediocre, right? Yes, it is. But just take a look back two years ago. The Cardinals won the mediocre NL Central and, as they say, the rest is history. It could happen here this year. Keep the faith.

By trippyhippie

June 25, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

It’s been a while, but I just had to say this. It kinda takes a few days for depth perception to work itself out after a sudden change in the left/right balance of your vision. Frenchy probably was disoriented by the new contact lens, detracting from his defensive abilities.

By jim

June 25, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

The Belliard play in the ‘95 WS was huge. A game saver! But, Belliard also bobbled a DP grounder before the Leyritz HR in 96 and only got a force. If he makes that play, The Yanks are still down a run after the HR and maybe the Braves go on to win that series.

By N8

June 25, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

trippyhippie

“Frenchy probably was disoriented by the new contact lens, detracting from his defensive abilities.”

No offense, but if YOU know this, then the doctors should know this as well. Which means that they would relay that information to Jeff Porter and Bobby, thus they would let him sit for a few days allowing for him to adjust.

Lame excuse.

By Moby Grape

June 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

This team doesn’t need a leader. They need production from the outfield and another right handed bullpen arm.Efrim

Yup!

By N8

June 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

jim

EXCELLENT point about Belliard. I had forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

Was that the same game that the RF umpire got in Dye’s way on the foul ball? Same inning?

By Rip

June 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Cant give you Maddux as I include holding runners on as a candidate for good fielding from pitcher. It is so easy to steal 2nd base on Maddux.

By Lorena Bobbitt

June 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Good post, Alan, I agree. I’m just tired of seeing Cox get lionized by the media for winning regular season games with a roster full of Hall of Famers…Then when he’s “only” got a good roster to work with, he can’t even manage them to a .500 record, yet he is given a free pass.

The numbers don’t lie. If a manager’s job is to maximize the talent he has to work with, he has been a complete failure this year, whether or not anyone in the media has the balls to take on Cox.

By N8

June 25, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Rip

“Cant give you Maddux as I include holding runners on as a candidate for good fielding from pitcher. It is so easy to steal 2nd base on Maddux.”

Yeah. Don’t bother taking into consideration, that the guy hardly ever had guys on base.

That’s like saying Vinny Castilla wasn’t a good 3B because he didn’t “steal” many HR, by making over the fence grabs.

By Efrim

June 25, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

WE GOT THROUGH THE FIRST INNING WITHOUT MAKING 3 ERRORS!!!!

See that, there is something to build on.

By Reason

June 25, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Emesto you forgot to say Bobby has Alzheimer’s.

By David O'Brien

June 25, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

By I've had all I can take of Gregor Blanco

June 25, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

I really have.

By Will

June 25, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Way to pepper those infielders boys! I just wish Bobby would have put Corky Miller in there to offically make this the worst braves lineup in 17 years.

By Efrim

June 25, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

It would be really nice to win this game and go into the off day and roadie to Toronto on a good note.

By Robin

June 25, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Is Fielder “the limit” as far as how fat a MLB player can be? He’s a fat one alright.

Jus sayin’ :)