AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > June > 03 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USEscobar homers on 3-0 pitch — problem with that?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
While we listen to the great “Bo Diddley Is A Gunslinger” CD and lament the passing of another music giant, we’ll offer a few quick thoughts about last night’s game and some facts and figures about Yunel Escobar, John Smoltz and the split-personality Braves (At home, they rule. On road? Not cool.)
First, let’s make sure I have this straight: Yunel Escobar hits a game-ending, 10th-inning, two-run homer to beat the Marlins and save the Braves and Smoltz from a homestand-opening defeat, and a few folks here on the ol’ Braves/MIB blog decide that it was flat-out wrong for Escobar to hit said homer on a 3-0 pitch?
Oh, my.
Never let it be said that sports fans care about results more than anything else. At least not all sports fans.
Really, that was the issue that demanded the attention of a few of you, more than anything else from last night’s game? I find that astounding, but hey, I’m just a paid observer, not a passionate fan.
For the record, let me say that manager Bobby Cox said after the game that Escobar had the green light to swing there, because Cox considers him to be one of the best “right-field hitters” in the game, and was confident that if Escobar swung, he could put the ball in play to the right side of the field and move Kelly Johnson from second to third base or drive him in.
Of course, Escobar did hit it to right, or at least slightly right of straightaway center. And did hit it over the fence, the first walk-off homer of his career.
And guess what? It came on the one-year anniversary of Escobar’s arrival in the major leagues. Wish I’d know this last night, but I only realized it when I was going through his day-by-day totals just now here at the home office.
Yes, it was June 2, 2007, when Escobar, just up from Richmond, went 2-for-4 with a game-winning RBI double in the eighth inning at sold-out Wrigley Field in Chicago.
But anyway, let’s get back to his swinging at that 3-0 pitch.
I checked on Stats, Inc. this morning to see how many times Escobar has swung at 3-0 pitches this season. He’s had nine 3-0 counts and took the fourth pitch eight times — six times it was ball 4, twice he took strikes.
Last night, for the first time all season, he swung. And hit a two-run homer.
You know what? I like those odds. Perhaps until he proves he can’t handle the responsibility, a smart manager might just let Escobar have the green light in said situations.
Of course, maybe you feel otherwise, that it would have been better for him to have taken that pitch and possibly drawn a walk? Done it for the greater good and all that. Followed “the book.”
Whatever. I’ll respectfully disagree and say that when a guy swings at a 3-0 pitch for the first time in nine such situations, and hit that pitch for a game-winning homer, his aggressiveness works just fine by me.
By the way, seems like there’s been a bit of an increase in Escobar critics among some fans lately, folks who don’t like his swagger or his aggressiveness or whatever.
If he smiled a lot and spoke fluent English, I’m going to guess that perception might be a bit different.
This kid’s a helluva talent, and he’s not a problem whatsoever in the clubhouse, at least not according to everybody I’ve talked to.
And for some idea of how good Escobar has been in his first full season in the majors, I did a quick, cursory comparison to some familiar names.
Granted, Escobar is a bit older (listed as 25, born 11/2/82) than these other guys were in their first full season and/or calendar year in the bigs, but most of them also played one position on an every-day basis and weren’t moved around the infield and used as part-time or platoon players initially.
Anyway, for what it’s worth:
Escobar has hit .316 (169-for-535) with 31 doubles, 1 triple, 10 homers, 53 RBI, 87 runs, 7 stolen bases, a .379 OBP and .434 slugging percentage in 149 games.
Rafael Furcal hit .295 (134-for-455) with 20 doubles, 4 triples, 4 homers, 37 RBI, 87 runs, 40 stolen bases, a .394 OBP and a .382 slugging percentage in 131 games as a rookie in 2000.
Edgar Renteria hit .284 (161-for-567) with 21 doubles, 3 triples, 6 homers, 42 RBI, 81 runs, 21 stolen bases, a .333 OBP and a .363 slugging percentage in 140 games in his first calendar year in the majors with the Marlins, from May 10, 1996 to May 10, 1997
(Actually that’s a year plus one day, just like Escobar’s year plus one day).
Chipper Jones hit .268 (141-for-527) with 23 doubles, 3 triples, 23 homers, 86 RBI, 89 runs, a .355 OBP and a .454 slugging percentage in his first 148 games through the end of the 1995 season.
Hey, like I said, just a cursory glance, not any definitive comparison. I’m in a hurry here.
By the way, Escobar has given the home fans plenty of reason to dig him. He’s hit .341 with five homers and an .856 OPS in 74 career games at Turner Field, including .407 (24-for-59) with 11 RBI in 15 home games since May 3.
And the Miami resident sure seems to enjoy hitting against those Fishes: Escobar has hit .424 (28-for-66) with six doubles, four homers and a whopping 1.176 OPS in 17 games against the Marlins.
Tomorrow night’s Marlins starter is veteran Mark Hendrickson. Escobar is 5-for-6 with a homer against him.
Braves and saves: The Braves rank among NL leaders in most pitching categories this season, but are dead last in the majors in saves (eight) and save opportunities (14).
John Smoltz, who had converted 20-of-20 save opportunities against Florida and never allowed a run against them in 29 relief appearances during his previous stint as a closer, gave up two runs and was tagged with a blown save last night in his first relief appearance in 44 months.
Out of curiosity, I wanted to see where Smoltz stood at this point in the season during his three full seasons (2002-04) as arguably the game’s most dominant closer.
His best start to a season in that role was in 2003, when Smoltz converted 20 of 21 saves through June 2 and posted a 0.92 ERA in 27 appearances, with 38 strikeouts, four walks and no homers allowed in 29-1/3 innings.
Wow. Utterly overwhelming.
Folks, the good news for the Braves out of Smoltz’s appearance last night was that he really did throw hard (95 mph on a couple of pitches when I happened to glance at the scoreboard radar gun) and with very good movement.
Provided his shoulder remains sound enough and the pain can be kept at tolerable levels, he really can give the Braves a big boost at the back end of the bullpen, especially since he can be used reasonably and be given needed rest because the Braves have other options to closer games.
I’ll be curious to see if Smoltz has anything to say about how his shoulder feels today, after his first, real, adrenaline-pumped test in the new role (minor league rehab games aren’t even close to the real thing).
And who knows, maybe next time they’ll be able to finish the Pict-O-Word promotion in time for the crowd to enjoy Smoltz’s entrance to AC/DC’s Thunderstruck. (I’m still in a state of disbelief that they allowed that interactive in-game promo thing to continue unabated on the huge video board as Smoltz walked in from the bullpen and every fan in attendance stood to applaud him.)
OK, out of time: Wanted to get into some more home-road stats and Chippers’ recent power outage and such, but I’ve got to get to the ballpark. Anyone got the soon-to-be-released new CD from My Morning Jacket yet? I’m reading great reviews, including four stars from Rolling Stone. For those fans of The Roots, if you haven’t bought their new CD, run, don’t walk, to the store and get it. I seriously think it’s as good as anything they’ve ever done.
”WHO DO YOU LOVE?” by Elias McDaniel (a.k.a. Bo Diddley)
I walk 47 miles of barbed wire,
I use a cobra snake for a necktie,
I got a brand new house on the roadside,
Made from rattlesnake hide,
I got a brand new chimney made on top,
Made out of a human skull,
Now come on take a walk with me, Arlene,
And tell me, who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Tombstone hand and a graveyard mine,
Just 22 and I don’t mind dying.
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
I rode around the town, use a rattlesnake whip,
Take it easy Arlene, don’t give me no lip.
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Night was dark, but the sky was blue,
Down the alley, the ice-wagon flew,
Heard a bump, and somebody screamed,
You should have heard just what I seen.
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Arlene took me by my hand,
And she said ooowee Bo, you know I understand.
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Services »
Comments
By bigchiefrg
June 3, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
first?
By Rob U
June 3, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
The only problem is he didn’t do it on the 2-0 pitch.
By MGL
June 3, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB - Great blog for the Escobar critics!!
By Jeremy
June 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
First! The best baseball blog of my lifetime.
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the work DOB.
By bull-gator
June 3, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
That was the perfect time and place to swing at a 3-0 pitch. Glad to see Bobby’s still got a little bit of a riverboat gambler in him. If Escobar stays healthy, he’s going to go down as one of the all time great Atlanta shortstops, maybe even in all of MLB. Hall of Fame potential.
By David
June 3, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Next 6 games are all against Florida and the Phillies - the two teams leading the Braves in the division. I’d say that qualifies as a big week. I’ll at least be there for Sunday’s day game - how can my kids run the bases after the game? Do we just hang around afterward, somewhere near the dugouts? My girls have been to many games, but never been able to run the bases and are excited about this Sunday….
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
When my dad was dating my mom in the early ’70s, they both went to a concert done by Chuck Berry (My mom wanted his autograph…Dad got it for her, but it was lost a long time ago) and several others, including the late, great Bo Diddley. While Bo was up on stage, he stopped for a moment, spoke up and said, “This next song goes out to the women’s liberation movement…SHUT UP, WOMAN!”
There was lots of laughter from the men in the audience.
Nary a peep was heard out of my dad.
Rest in peace, Bo Diddley.
By RC
June 3, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
My high school coach used to berate us, “If you swing at a 2-0 pitch (or 3-0), you’d better hit the ball somewhere hard.” If Escobar can do that everytime he swing 3-0, no complaints from me. Now if Francouer and KJ could just learn that lesson…
By TURTSNAP
June 3, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Well, I among many others on here, think Yunel walks on water, ok not really, but Yunel is a “player” one that the Braves need. You can say what you want about the swagger and whatever else you criticize, but he backs it up with his numbers.
Smoltz will be fine if the shoulder holds up. Last night, he was pumped, just like he was in his first closer appearance a few years ago.
By Spider29
June 3, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
I thought I was paying close attention last night but I didn’t realize that Yunel had a 3-0 count until the post-homerun hoopla. If some people are upset because he swung then I am really glad he hit a homerun! What would they be saying if he’d popped up or something? Can’t please everybody, I guess. As for Chipper’s lack of power, my thought is that it’s more noticable because we have a team-lack of power right now and because Chipper is so close to 400 but not getting there in a hurry. Right now I am really enjoying Chipper’s .400 average and the way he is hitting in (almost) every game. The opposite field hit he had last night was a thing of beauty and I wish some other Braves would try that. Smoltz…looked good, threw hard. Hermida hit a pretty good pitch the opposite way. If he tries to pull, he grounds out and Yunel doesn’t get the chance to hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch! Thanks for the new blog, DOB, and keep up the great work. Go Braves!
By mitchie-san
June 3, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Hi there, I havent blogged in a while since enough people are in the same mood about the Braves that I am. I am not gonna be happy until a trade happens or a serious line-up change. Unitl then, keep up the good posts (they are entertaining) and keep up the good work DOB.
By Section 412
June 3, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
David - I’m there every Sunday home game. Run the Bases is at the end of the game, so they typically start calling for kids who want to run as the game gets late. I have heard them call as early as the 5th inning, but I don’t think you have to go until close to the end. The line is at the Hank Aaron ramp, which is at either Section 139 or 129, I think, but I’m not certain. They announce the section number. They then bring out all the kids at once. Friends and family NOT waiting in line with the kids wait at Section 104 to pick them up after they run. It’s pretty cool - organized chaos, but cool.
Hope that helps.
By Graham
June 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Bobby didn’t go by the book with Escobar, and in turn, was rewarded with a win to add to his remarkable managerial career.
Sometimes, you just need to toss the book aside and watch the movie just to do something different, shake things up. Good move by Bobby.
By Alan
June 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
I hope it happens again tonight w/Yunel or any other Brave. Come on, people. The Braves need W’s by any and all means possible.
Go Bo Diddley - rock it in heaven.
By AGTfan
June 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
I’m sure that there were some bloggers who were confused after the game last night. They couldn’t decide if they were happier to win the game or have something to bash Bobby about.
By Paddy
June 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Where are these people who doubt the 3-0 move. Incredible… Not being a vetern yet, I am sure he had the green light from the dugout. Bobby over the years has let many many players take a rip at 3-0. Chill people, we won.
By geekboy
June 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Escobar is one of the greatest young talents to wear a Braves uniform in a long time. Anyone that doesn’t like that can shove off. I guess watching talented people have fun playing a game just p** some people off.
By Rick
June 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox has always been known for giving his players the green light on 3-0 pitches more than most managers . He thinks , rightly so , that you have a good chance of getting a fat pitch to hit . Now the batter still has to use his head and only swing at a certain pitch in a certain spot and let it go by if he does not get that pitch . Getting the green light doesn’t mean you swing at just anything .
By Transplanted Brave
June 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
3-0 green light doesn’t mean swing no matter what. How many times in Little League did watch the perfect pitch sail through the heart of the plate on 3-0? Cuddos to Cox for giving him the chance to take a stab at it if it was something he could drive. Apparently it was.
By 22oz
June 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Of course Bobby has some Riverboat gambler in him. Haven’t you seen Greg Norton starting left field?
By Shaun
June 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Here’s something I brought up early that in my opinion is more worthy of a conversation that whether Escobar should have hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch. (Just wanted to remind everyone that he hit a freakin’ homerun.)
The Braves are now 7-0 in two-run games, the only team in baseball unbeaten in two-run games.
How do you explain 7-0 in two-run games but 2-16 in one-run games without bringing up the fact that luck/breaks/flukes play a huge role in close games?
I mean, there’s the idea that Bobby Cox is costing them close games. Well, last I checked Bobby Cox is the manager in both one- and two-run games.
There’s the idea that things tighten up in close games. Well, why do they tighten up significantly more in one-run but not two-run games?
There’s the idea that the players are pressing and are thinking about it when the games is tight. Well, why are think thinking and pressing significantly more in one-run as opposed to two-run games?
I know some two-run games are different than one-run games and not all two-run games are the same, but this team is 7-0 in two-run games. Yet they are 2-16 in one-run games. That’s an awful big swing for a difference of one-run in the margin of victory.
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
The complaints about Escobar swinging on a 3-0 pitch make no sense. If KJ had been on first, thereby putting a potential double play in order, I could see some people questioning the move. Otherwise, it was just a situation where Bobby let a good hitter do his job.
By eric the elder
June 3, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
DOB a few folks here … decide that it was flat-out wrong for Escobar to hit said homer on a 3-0 pitch
A few folks also think Katrina hit New Orleans because the city was planning a parade.
If it’s legit to base blogs on the opinions of a few folks, then you will have enough material to last a lifetime. :)
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
I think Yunel is great and any haters can just be glad Cox doesn’t have Corky Miller playing SS, eh?
By midtownBrave
June 3, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
3-0.. 3-2.. the count doesn’t matter. If you get a pitch to hit you have got to hit (especially if that gives you a chance to win)!
That pitch had ‘hit me’ written all over it and I would have been very disappointed if he just took that pitch (maybe even some of these Escobar haters would have done the same if he were to take that pitch and were to eventually get out).
Hopefully the Braves can keep this home cooking going for a while. Get to that first place already!
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Bo, you don’t know Diddley:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-GPxkpjCvWI
By StingerSplash
June 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Now that’s poetry, courtesy of Mr. Diddley. Don’t be so hasty to judge folks for being narrow-minded, Mr. DOB. Granted, it is likely that is going on, but I like Escobar as well and have the utmost respect for what he endured to get here. But I think people are just a little confounded by someone who could exhibit such great patience elsewhere in the lineup now has none of that in a spot in the order that mandates it. If he were that aggressive and hitting .350, all would be well. I don’t care if he stands up there as dour as Eddie Murray as long as he rakes at the plate and guns people down on the bases.
By Cook
June 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
DOB- I’ve had the My Morning Jacket album for a couple of weeks, and it’s brilliant. It’s not the “It Sill Moves” sound that I love and some of it is really “out there”, but it’s a tremendous album. Jim James is an insane talent.
Oh, and I have NO problem with Yunel swinging 3-0, some of you people need to get a clue.
By Bobby's Cox
June 3, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Joining the discussion from last blog….
Absolutely play Anderson. What are you thinking Shaun, DAP?
Who knows if Anderson can keep up his .400 OBP at the ML level or not. Last I checked Yunel is exceeding his minor league stats too and it ain’t no fluke. Should Bobby and Wren find a veteran SS and bench Yunel because he’s obviously “not that type of player” by your standards? What does it take to give a rookie an opportunity in your reasoning?
Should Dusty Baker bench Bruce because he’s a rookie and is obviously outperforming his minor stats?
The situation calls for Anderson to play. Norton and Infante aren’t everyday outfielders. They cover less ground than Anderson. Anderson had a hot spring. He tore it up in Houston last September. What more do you want? Some players play better in big leagues than they did in the minors, others perform worse. You never don’t know what you have with Anderson unless you play him. He needs to play.
BTW, how’s Tampa Bay doing with all of their veteran leadership? Until Kotsay is ready, Anderson should be playing everyday. Blanco or Anderson 1st, the other 8th, KJ 6th or 7th. You don’t need power out of those positions. There’s still plenty of power with Chipper, Tex, BMac, Frenchy, KJ, and even Esco if they perform.
By Shaun
June 3, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Remember Game 4 of the 2004 World Series? Red Sox have the bases loaded in the top of the third. Trot Nixon is up. He swings 3-0 and drives in two runs with a double. I suppose there should have been some criticism on that play, huh?
By David
June 3, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t care if the Braves started swinging at FOUR and 0 counts if it meant they could sweep the Marlins & Phillies! Section 412 - BIG HELP - thanks a lot!
By NRBQ
June 3, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Update:
The sun will rise tomorrow.
And Bobby will use Acosta tonight.
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
I think all of you complaining about Yunel and his swagger ought to get over yourselves. I wish the other 24 guys on this team had that same swagger. Then maybe we wouldn’t be acting lick scared little girls on the road. Way to go Esco!
By Chop Chop's Real Daddy
June 3, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Funny- I took your Momma to quite a few shows. She never minded me telling her to shut up or smacking her around. Asked for more, actually…
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
June 3, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
DOB
You know, some bloggers around here remind of the guys I grew up with who used to work on their car all the time. No matter how nice it looked or how well it ran, there was always a better part out there that performed better, or something that had to be removed - torn down - and rebuilt.
People like that are just annoying to listen to, but that is also why I try to make as many positive posts as I can when the situation warrants it.
They remind me of the bleacher fans in the Major League movies.
“I thought that ball was too high to go out.”
I wish we had a counter on the blog to keep up with everyone’s positive and negative number of posts. It would be fun to see who is the biggest griper.
By The Crab
June 3, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I have come to the conclusion some of you bloggers don’t know Diddley squat.
By Bobby's Cox
June 3, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Last I checked you have 3 strikes to work with in baseball, and have a better chance of getting a hit with 0 or 1 strikes than with 2.
Not sure why there’s a complaint about Esco swinging at a 3-0 pitch. All he had to do was move the runner to 3rd, but he did better than that. It’s not like the bases were loaded, and even if it were it wouldn’t have been a bad idea unless there were 2 out, knowing the pitcher has to throw a strike.
Great call by our aging HOF manager.
By joe
June 3, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
cant believe I turned the game off on MLB.com after they scored on Smoltz. After last week, I couldn’t watch.You never see a great game if you leave early.
go braves
By Cook
June 3, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
I agree on Anderson and Blanco in LF/CF on a more regular basis (until Kotsay is back). Norton and Infante scare the he!! out of me out there. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
By lewie
June 3, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
new MMJ is great, as is the new Roots
love that esco swung away…he’s as good as we’ve got at going the other way with a pitch that’s not on the outside corner
smoltz worries me…didn’t look as though he had any idea where the ball was going to end up. i’d like to read about he and mccann getting some extra work in to figure out what’s what. he did have great movement, but movement w/o location = trouble
By snowball's chance
June 3, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
play it again DOB
By Coach Smith
June 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
For all of our moaning and groaning, the injuries, the pathetic play on the road, and everything else…
there is a good chance that the BRAVES COULD BE IN FIRST PLACE by Sunday evening
If they go 6-1 it is almost a lock and is still possible if they go 5-2.
the way they play at home, neither of those are a stretch.
By Shaun
June 3, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox, it’s not whether or not players “outperform” their stats. It’s about what their minor league stats indicate. Anderson’s indicate he doesn’t hit the ball hard and he doesn’t have much discipline.
McCann is outperforming his minor league stats but there was plenty of indications that he would be an adequate major league catcher.
Play Anderson. I really am fine with that and I agree with that. He’s the only true outfielder left and he’s a useful player. But he shouldn’t play everyday, he shouldn’t bat higher than eighth and we shouldn’t expect him to be the next Kenny Lofton.
By pavard
June 3, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
If you dont like Escobar…You are just plain foolish! He plays the game the right way. His swagger is due to playing the game with confidence, intensity, and aggressiveness. I, for one, love to watch him play. It may come across to some as arrogance, but not to me. I think he is happy to be in the Major Leagues and would do ANYTHING to help the team win!
By Luther
June 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
He was having a good night and had Infante coming up after him right? What should we have played for the walk, hope we don’t hit into a typical Braves double play, they then walk Chipper and Tex and Frenchy swings at ball 4 inning over.
I don’t see what you lose. Having Yunel get on base means absolutely nothing in a tie game except for giving the defense another way to get an out.
By J-Row
June 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
The Roots? As good as they have ever done. Good grief son, that is like saying Vlad Guerrero is having the best season of his career to date(look it up).??!!DO YOU WANT MORE??!! Obviously.
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
I have come to the conclusion some of you bloggers don’t know Diddley squat.
Must be new here.
By Ramblin' Wreck
June 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you only make Escobar take a 3-0 pitch if you want him on first base. However, in this case, KJ was the only run that mattered! Standard 3-0 thinking goes out the window when you’re not really concerned about base runners! Escobar had to do everything in his power to get KJ home, not get himself on base. It was a great call on Bobby’s part.
By Shaun
June 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Should Dusty Baker bench Bruce because he’s a rookie and is obviously outperforming his minor stats?
Is Bruce outperforming his minor league stats? His minor league stats indicate he’s a heck of a player. He’s been a heck of a player. It’s just silly to think the Reds are playing Bruce because they happened to give him a shot and he happened to have a big game so they kept playing him.
By brent a.
June 3, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
If he (Escobar) smiled a lot and spoke fluent English, I’m going to guess that perception might be a bit different. DOB
Paragraph of the year nominee.
By OrlandoFan
June 3, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
On Escobar, here’s my take: It’s a game-winner situation. They Braves aren’t trailing, so they’re not trying to be sure to extend the game. They want to win it right there. Every good hitter looks for his shot in those situations. Doesn’t matter who it is, and Bobby for his career as a manager has been liberal with the green light. Ask Chipper about that. His confidence in the hitter’s judgment isn’t always fulfilled, but it lets the hitter know he believes in the guy’s ability, as he stated about Escobar and hitting the ball to RF (wasn’t that debut, game-winning double at Chicago to RF?). He had a few clutch hits last year, too. Anyway, in that situation, you take a chance. Anything but a DP is an acceptable result.
By ernesto
June 3, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
“Here I Come” by the Roots. My personal fave by them and a damn fine intro tune for any closer
By BamaBrave
June 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Just savor anything/everything we get out of Smoltz this year, my friends… He’s gotta be near the end of the line.
The only silver lining to that…more money is freed up for Tex and perhaps Frenchy…
By Brad
June 3, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Hey I left my sunglass holder at the game last night. Has anyone seen it?
Thanks
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
counter on the blog to keep up with everyone’s positive and negative number of posts
caveman, would that a counting stat or a ranking stat, LOL? Will the number of posts be weighted by, say, posting length? Or will there be other weighting factors, e.g., vehemence of the position taken? Segmentation on team posts vs player posts vs manager posts?
A great idea merely needing refinement to rise to excellent. Good on ya! :-)
By brent a.
June 3, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Shaun, Good question before.
It seems that the Braves record in 1-run games is directly related to its record on the road. On the road, you are at the mercy of the other team’s last at-bat, and in a close game, this is where home field advantage really comes into play.
The Braves come across as more of a slugging team. Even last night, when all Escobar needed was a single ;-), he hits a two run-homer to win the game.
In reality, this (Escobar’s homer) is just luck; but, I actually do think there is something to this, in terms of how the Braves play, and the team’s likelihood for winning a 2-run game, vs. 1-run game.
The Braves are not a bad team; but rather, they are an inconsistent team. They have good pitching, but they also have an inconsistent offense. On the road, when the bats go, the pitching does not necessarily go (see: the 2 losses in Milwaukee, and opening night in Washington). But, if the bats can’t get it done, eventually, someone scores a run, and on the road, that run seems to very often come in the 8th inning or later and is thus costing us the game.
I don’t know if I’ve helped any at all. But, my point is really to say that you ask a fair question, and I do think the answer lies somewhere in style of play.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
June 3, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
It was not my call last night but if Bobby is okay with Yunel swinging on an 3-0 count then I’m not going to complain. Sometimes it’s the best pitch of an at-bat.
I am a bit concerned about John Smoltz’lack of control but will not hit the panic button quite yet. Let’s see how he does in his next couple of outings before getting too riled up.
By Daybed Wagmoe
June 3, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Would those bloggers who were saying that swinging on a 3-0 pitch was a bad move please explain why it was a bad move? (I’m being serious here — not trying to be sarcastic or witty…)
I really don’t understand the sentiment that getting the green light on a 3-0 pitch is a bad move. It seems like most of the time, when a hitter has a 3-0 count, one radio/TV announcer will say to the other, “3-0, do you give him the green light here?” and the other one says, “I would think so.”
By ncgary
June 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
freddie gonzalez was and idiot for allowing the 3-0 pitch to escobar
By Shamus Thacker
June 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Great job DOB!
As far as Yunel’s homer goes, some folks are NEVER satisfied, NO MATTER WHAT. It’s a game dammitt! Why not enjoy the home run without second-guessing and b***. Summa Y’all would raise Hell about SOMETHING, even if the Bravos went 162-0 and swept the playoffs and WS. Summa you profits-of-doom would be wringing hands over average margin of victory during the 162-0 season. Get a grip! Watching games is all about enjoyment! Summa Y’all are masochists, your enjoyment is limited to self-induced misery!
By Austin
June 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Everybody get out and vote for McCann. He deserves it. If 100 or so of us vote for him 25 times thats 2,500 votes right there.
Do it.
By BravesLover
June 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Where did the swagger go? Ok we’ve missed the playoff for two years and for over 300 games we’re a little over .500 but looking at the players the only swagger I see is Chipper. As much as I’ve bashed Chipper the past couple of years I say he can swagger all he wants with a .400+ average. Even Smoltz last night did not have his usual “I’m John Smoltz and you’re not” look on his face on the mound. He didn’t look scared but he did appear to have a “let’s see what I have” look. He seemed to be more concerned about what he was about then what the hitters were about (big change from bi (before injury)). Maybe this new crop of young folks haven’t won enough to swagger. How do the coaches teach guys to win? If the tools are there and everyone seems to agree that they are…then how do you get the mindset that every at bat or pitch or base steal attempt we see the “I’m better than you are” approach? JoJo doesn’t have it, Kelly doesn’t have it, nor Jeff, not Norton the list goes on and on. Chipper and Kotsay, Bryan and sometimes McCann show it. By the way I’d trade Francoeur for Jay Bruce straight up right now. Simple reason is Jeff hit a homer run his first game and watched AJ for two years swing for the fence. His coachable moment has passed. Bruce may not have the arm in the outfield but he’s going to win a lot of games with consistently good at bats. Kudos to the Reds minor league coaches for doing with Bruce what Braves coaches couldn’t and can’t do with Francoeur. Rage on bloggers.
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop’s Real Daddy,
Don’t think I don’t know who you are. I’ve seen you around town, you drunken bum. There’s one morning in which I distinctly remember seeing you take a leak in an alley behind an abandoned shopping center. You slipped and fell in your own offal. I felt bad for ya, dad.
My mom is well-known for her innumerable sexual indiscretions, but the real reason she accepted your verbal and physical assaults was because your performance seldom lasted for more than thirty seconds. She figured that it was her penance to silently take all of the hate, anger, misery, and misunderstanding in the world that you’d so sloppily wrapped up in those slurred curses and sawdust jabs.
By Random
June 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Lew: “How can you underperform if you win?”
When you don’t beat the spread.
;->
By Austin
June 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
brent a*
excellent 4:01 post.
By Bobby's Cox
June 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
I know Shaun, but how do you know whether or not a player is going to outperform those stats if you don’t give them a chance to do so?
That’s my point. Play the kid.
You know what you’re getting with Norton. He’s in his 12th season with a .251 career avg, so he’ll likely hit .250 this year.
On the contrary, you don’t know what you’re getting with Anderson other than an astounding 25 games in the major leagues. His upside is greater than Norton’s, but you’ll never know for sure unless you play him. Even if he were to match Norton’s .250, his defense is a plus as well as his speed on the basepaths. It’s a no brainer.
By Jersey Gil
June 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
DOB Great Stat about BRAVES SAVE….In 14 Op we only have 8 Save, meaning we have 6 BS…With this 6 win we should be in First 36-22. That mean the Road woes it not that big deal….?????
By DAP
June 3, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
bobby’s cox re: mr. anderson vs. norton/infante….
thats fine, man. difference of opinion i suppose. to me, its not time to expierement. i DO want to see anderson play, but having BOTH blanco and anderson in the lineup at the same time doesnt appeal to me. i would love to have his defence out there, but norton and infante are ok.
im sure anderson will get a start or two before he gets sent back down, which he will.
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Gil, good to see your name, man, where you been?
By FJR
June 3, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
99% of the time its idiotic to swing at a 3-0 pitch. but last night falls into one of those 1% of the times. Like Bobby said, he was confident that Esco would either hit a ground ball to the right side, get a hit, fly out to the right side or hit a homerun.
Was it lucky that he hit it out? Yeah, a little bit. but even if it hadn’t gone out, it would have gotten the runner to third with one out.
The only reason not to swing at a 3-0 pitch is to walk. Sure a walk gets the winning run on first base, but that’s not scoring position and it sets up the double play.
Like another blogger said, I like the prospects of scoring one run with a man on third and one out more than men on first and second with no outs.
By Robin
June 3, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Ha ha … swinging on a 3-0 count …a bad move? Some of you are hilarious! :rolls eyes: On another note, born 11/2/82 … The day after my BD, we’re Scorpios, we choose our “smiling” carefully. It’s all about the passion. Yup, we take this game seriously, we like to win! Last time I checked …there’s nothing wrong with that.
By timmy
June 3, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Just hoping we get another win tonight. I would prefer if we got the starters a win this time. I thought yesterday we just needed to get a win, to clear the stench of that last road trip off. Let’s see what happens today.
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Here are tonight’s lineups:
Marlins SS Hanley Ramirez, RF Jeremy Hermida, 3B Jorge Cantu, 1B Mike Jacobs, 2B Dan Uggla, LF Luis Gonzalez, CF Cody Ross, C Matt Treanor, P Burke Badenhop.
Braves: SS Yunel Escobar, 2B Kelly Johnson, 3B Chipper Jones, 1B Mark Teixeira, LF Greg Norton, RF Jeff Francouer, C Corky Miller, CF Gregor Blanco, P Jorge Campillo.
By UGADawg16
June 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
OK, I saw the headline and thought the theme would be that Yunel should have left the ball in the park so that the Braves could have tallied one of those elusive one-run victories. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Bobby Cox is known for trusting his hitters and often giving the green light on 3 - 0. Yunel gets a pitch that he can handle and he drives it and he did something wrong? Knocks it out of the park to win the game??? Talk about can’t win!
Thanks DOB…great stats! AND…I think next time Yunel is 3 - 0, I’d give him the green light again.
By free tuki
June 3, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
DOB Thanks for the blog…great as usual. I love the 3-0 green light in that situation…balls.
can’t wait for the MMJ album…heard good things as well. although i don’t like the single
By Reid in EAV
June 3, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
David - more info about kids’ base-running from a veteran: The line starts at the 200 level, on the ramp on Hank Aaron Drive, but usually by the last pitch it’s all the way up to the top (400) and spilling down toward the home plate area. My strategy is to hoof it right at the last pitch, unless it’s a total blowout. Once they start letting people onto the field the line goes really quickly — I’ve rarely spent more than an hour after the game getting through it. And most parents do stand in line with their kids (my daughter is 5) and then part ways on the first base side of home plate, to meet up on the third base side after the younguns get their certificates and T-shirts. A photographer is usually shooting at 2B, so tell your kids to smile!
By too tough44
June 3, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Hey, Just Win Baby! Yunel is a fine baseball player! He is a good hitter too! Needs to be hitting, I mean, most of the time for the Braves, if he would have walked? Someone (dont make me say it please!) chokedawg, would hit into a dble. play. I have seen it enough to know. Man, I can call it! How many times is there a man on third with one out, and what do we get a strike out! And, of course the next hitter hits the sacrifice to deep left. OH…heck, that is one out too late….lets stay aggressive Braves! Lets kick some a##! Lets win a world series for all of the Fans! GO BRAVES!!!!
By Pete
June 3, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Way too often, in the past……..way too many Braves batters stand and watch a perfect 3-0 pitch…..and eventually make an out, one way or another. I’m damn glad Escobar swung the bat……….for a change !!
By lexbrave
June 3, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
i think it should be pointed out that if escobar had ended up walking then its runners at 1st and 2nd. What happens if the next batter hits into a double play? then you have a runner at 3rd with 2 outs. Those are much worse odds in my book than letting escobar swing away on what he knows is going to be a good pitch. if he get’s a hit, game over..if he hits it to the right side then he gets the runner over.. sure there is a chance a batter swinging on 3-0 could line into a double play or he could fly out or ground out setting up a walk to the next batter and a game ending double play on the next.
but what is for certain is that nobody that inning was going to have a better pitch to hit than on that 3-0 pitch.
what is even more certain is that at least one person here would have made that very argument had he not swung and the braves ended up losing the game.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Austin—
Gotta agree with you this time! Brian’s gotta be a starter in the All-Star Game this year! He’s having a “mini slump” at the moment, but overall he’s been excellent. (Do believe the real McCann has “stood up”, so to speak.)
And Mr. Soto now has 19 doubles, too! Aaaa!
Hey, is that really tonight’s lineup? Corky for real? Aw, man!
BTW—McCann is hitting .259 (7-27) in DGANG (Day Games After Night Games) with 3 doubles, one homer, and 3 RBI. Just thought I’d toss that out there.
By cityofdecatur
June 3, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Bo Didley born Ellias Bates not Ellias Mcdaniel (mckinley morganfield aka Muddy Waters) McDaniels ? i be drawing a blank.
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
The Marlins’ pitcher became one of my faves during the winte leagues, just because of his name, LOL. How can you NOT like a baseball player named “Badenhop”?
Let’s hope he gets victimized by a few of them tonight.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
So is McCann hurt? Maybe BC is giving him a day’s rest?
By Bobby's Cox
June 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
DAP Fair enough. Difference in opinion. I can’t argue with that.
Sorry Shaun, I didn’t fully read your last post before i posted mine. Looks like we agree.
By Daybed Wagmoe
June 3, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
bravesfan — you’re kidding about that lineup, right?
By Kentavo
June 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
MMJ is coming to Myrtle Beach in August - I’m stoked.
I said it on the other blog - Norton is fine as a pinch hitter, but Bobby’s trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by using him so much in LF. Let Anderson play or call up Joe Borchard.
By justagirlhere
June 3, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand the hoopla, except that he likely could have drawn the walk. But he hit a homer, so who cares?? I am just a girl, and probably don’t understand the finer points, but I sure like watching Yunel play. My husband and both think he is an impressive kid.
By Reid in EAV
June 3, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Same players, but the lineup I’d use:
CF Gregor Blanco, SS Yunel Escobar, 3B Chipper Jones, 1B Mark Teixeira, RF Jeff Francouer, LF Greg Norton, 2B Kelly Johnson, C Corky Miller, P Jorge Campillo
Still scratching my head about why, if Gregor’s in the lineup, why he wouldn’t lead off. But hey, Bobby turned out to be right about that LF platoon last year so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Again.
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Efrim - I believe Miller is now Campillo’s personal catcher, now.
By OrlandoFan
June 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Hey, McFann: McCann’s day-after-night numbers might not be good, but they are hall-of-fame compared to having Corky Miller out there. I still believed they should have kept Pena.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
I’m okay with playing anderson for a while, but mainly because pitchers and defenses don’t fully have the book on him yet. When pitchers realize they can just throw the ball right down the middle and defenses play up cutting down some infield hits, then he’ll go back to what he was doing in the minor leagues.
I like the kid’s defense and he is freaking fast, but he doesn’t have enough power to hit even a double on a consistent basis, and he doesn’t have the eye and hand-eye coordination to fight pitches off and force a walk.
He might be able to hit .270-.290, but he isn’t going to walk very much, making a singles only batting average not all that useful anywhere other than the 8th spot.
I said it on the last blog, but people seem to think all you have to do is learn how to walk and a guy will have a .400 OBP. That’s just not true, it takes a TON of talent to do that and you don’t just learn it.
By Ellen
June 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
DOB, I agree with you for the most part. I had no problems with Escobar swinging on 3-0. Cox is notorious for giving his hitters the green light more often than not on 3-0. I like Escobar a lot. I think he had tremendous talent and a cannon for an arm. Not sure if he should be lead off, but other than Blanco, don’t know who else the Braves have to fit that role.
The comment about fans not having as many issues with him if he spoke fluent English was a low blow and honestly uncalled for. I thought that comment wass disrespectful to Braves fans and to all non-US citizen ball players. I’m not saying there aren’t some ignorant fans out there, but that was too much of a generalization for you to make.
By cabravesfan
June 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Hey guys- looks like Corky is going to be Campillo’s personal catcher…he has caught most, if not all, of his starts- nothing bad about Mac
By DHD
June 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
If he walks, Infante sacrifices. Then, they walk Chipper intentionally. So, you would have Tex up with the sacks loaded and one out. The double play is a possibility there.
It was the right move. Nice job once again by Bobby, the Hall of Fame manager.
By KC
June 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if the Braves will be in first place by Sunday night, but if the Braves can play good baseball - booth at home and on the road - for a sustained stretch… there’s a great chance they will be in 1st within the next few weeks.
First of all, the Braves need to pick up at least a game or two by the end of the weekend.
Then there’s a stretch around the middle of the month in which the Braves will play the Rangers and Mariners while the Phillies play the Red Sox and Angels.
That should present a nice opportunity to pick up a couple more games on Phili.
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Daybed Wagmoe - no, I am not kidding.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Wait a minute…..
It’s not even 5, that can’t be the lineup….
gullible is written on the wall…..
By Mike in LA
June 3, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
DOB, provided Smoltzie’s shoulder holds up and he finds consistent command with the the three quarters delivery do you think that the fact that he can’t throw his splitter with that motion will have an impact on the success that he will have? And from what you’ve heard so far is the front office more concerned about adding another pitcher at the deadline or another consistent bat with some pop, maybe in left field? I might be in the minority but with the pitching staff getting healthier I think the pitching might be in good shape and that adding another bat would benefit the Braves more. I can’t recall too many outings from starters or relievers this year that prevented any chance of the offense being able to win the game
By Graham
June 3, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Bobby is using Corky Miller with Jorge Campillo, like he did with Eddie Perez and Gred Maddux, giving McCann a little breather to keep him fresh.
By Renegator
June 3, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Why does Campillo always get stuck with that scrub C. Miller? Shouldn’t McCann get tomorrow off - day game after a night game?
I guess Glavine refuses to throw to that scrub so they stick him with Campillo who is so new - he can’t complain about it.
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
Efrim - alright, don’t believe me, but watch and see.
By SteelCav
June 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
So where are these bloggers that think Yunel’s 3-0 swing was a bad decision? Have they gone the way of the dodo?
Time to set Blanco. He almost cost us the game last night with his lack of concentration on defense - on more than one occasion.
By Austin
June 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
I am going to slap myself in the face if that is indeed tonight’s lineup.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
I know I’m going to get murdered here, but as of right now, Soto is slightly more deserving of the starting nod in the all-star game.
Their offensive statistics are almost freakishly identical. McCann is hitting 17 points higher, but Soto’s OBP is 4 points higher. They have the same number of doubles, McCann has one more homer. Soto has 5 more RBIs, McCann has 6 more runs.
There are two major differences however: Soto has thrown out 11 of 36 baserunners, while McCann has thrown out just 10 of 45. The Cubs are in first place, the Braves are not yet.
That being said, as identical as their stats are, it really only comes down to one thing, the Cubs have better fans.
By VaBravesfan
June 3, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
One thing that was ovelooked about last night’s game: If Anderson doesn’t hustle out the doubleplay ball, game is over in the ninth.
By Reid in EAV
June 3, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
One other point re: McCann being in the lineup— tomorrow is indeed a day game, and if he’s not playing tonight I’m sure he’ll be playing tomorrow. Anyone got Mac’s day game splits? (Day games total, not day game after playing in a night game?)
By pavard
June 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
DOB
What can be done to help McCann and Chipper to get more votes? Is there anyway the AJC can add links to the page to encourage or make it easier for fans to vote for them?
I think McCann is far more deserving than Soto, but the Cubs have a larger fan base.
I just think we should do all we can to make sure that our players get into the AllStar game. And it starts with consent publicity from the media.
By Chess
June 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Bo Knows!!! RIP BO
By R.Hobbs
June 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Good stuff D.O.B. Just watched the Hawk and the Band performing that great tune last night on the Last Waltz. Robbie’s guitar work and Danko’s backing vocals — tought to beat, although Bo Diddley’s original would still have to be considered the best.
Give me a break with people criticizing Yunel’s 3-0 bomb. Again, one of the many reasons players would run through a wall for Bobby…he puts them in positions to succeed and then takes no credit for it. Hope Campillo continues his recent wizardry tonight.
By realbrave
June 3, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Yunel is and will always be my hero.
I hate Jay Bruce.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Bravesfan- Maybe you’re right. I never thought about Miller working well with Campillo. That’s fine with me. McCann is on pace to catch like 150 games. Far too many.
By Furman72
June 3, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
DOB - I’ve had the MMJ album for a few weeks and I love it. I think I like it more than Z. Also make sure to get the new Hold Steady album when it drops. I’ve heard it already and it might be my record of the year.
And let Yunel swing away on a 3-0 count. I mean it’s ridiculous to not let him do so.
By Kentavo
June 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Oh yes, and I have to call those first year stats into question about Furcal - if memory serves me, he did do quite a bit of shuffling between middle infield positions, did he not, before settling into SS? I’m gonna go try and look that up.
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
BTW—McCann is hitting .259 (7-27) in DGANG (Day Games After Night Games) with 3 doubles, one homer, and 3 RBI. Just thought I’d toss that out there.
These are DGANG where McCann played in both the games right? Or is this stat a result of McCann resting and then playing in a day game? What are his GADO stats? And more to the point his DGADO stats? Also curious, what are his stats for DGADOBPT4SGEBRJG?
In case you aren’t familiar with that stat it’s Day Games After Day Off But Prior To 4 Straight Games Excluding Blue Road Jersey Games.
By Austin
June 3, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
FJR
Small thing though uhhh McCann is a Brave which gived him the nod over Soto.
pavard Thank you. Yes the AJC does need to do something to publicize the ALL-STAR voting. They have done absolutely nothing to promote it. Only mention of it has been DOB’s story on Chipper.
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
June 3, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
We should get Shaun to work out a formula for the neg/pos posting rating.
maybe by subject,length,and ridiculousness. LOL
Now for my only comment on the 3-0 swing by Escobar:
As a hitter you want to work on a Hitters Count - 2-0,3-0,3-1. These are the best one’s to get a fastball over the heart of the plate. Basically your sitting on the pitch in a mode that ballplayer’s call - Sittin’ Dead Red.
You looking for the heater in a certain zone or spot and if you get it you smack hit as hard as you can. It is a good move with a good contact hitter at the plate.
Now if you can’t understand that - then you don’t understand the game of baseball at all. It is a game of mostly failure, if it was so easy the scores would be 15-10 every game.
That’s why this blog is filled with so many negative poster’s. It’s not like basketball,football,hockey, or even soccor were the offense can gain possession on any play from the defensive side and score immediately. It’s a strategy game and with so many more outs than runs there is always something to harp about.
It’s your choice how you want to see it but the positive side is so much more enjoyable to be on, if you really love you team.
By jeanE
June 3, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
I can’t quarrel with the results of Yunel’s swinging at that 3-0 pitch!!They won, people, and that’s the bottom line! I do have a problem with the way most of today’s players can’t bunt worth a da— but hey, we did win it! I admit, though, I still miss Edgar Renteria, I just loved that guy & the way he played. I haven’t warmed to Yunel, not sure why but I wish him & the team well, anyway. It’s just that I’ve always loved Edgar even when he was a Marlin! It’s hard to let a player like that go even though we did get J.J. for him…why can’t J.J. who’s so young, pitch past the 5th inning????? What’s with today’s pitchers? I Digress, go Braves!!
By jellis
June 3, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
The pitcher had too throw a strike and Escobar knew it. Who cares he hit it where know one could get it!! BRAVES WIN BOTTOM LINE!
By Bowl of Sad
June 3, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
BTW—McCann is hitting .259 (7-27) in DGANG (Day Games After Night Games) with 3 doubles, one homer, and 3 RBI. Just thought I’d toss that out there.
These are DGANG where McCann played in both the games right? Or is this stat a result of McCann resting and then playing in a day game? What are his GADO stats? And more to the point his DGADO stats? Also curious, what are his stats for DGADOBPT4SGEBRJG?
In case you aren’t familiar with that stat it’s Day Games After Day Off But Prior To 4 Straight Games Excluding Blue Road Jersey Games.
(The answers to your questions are quite simple:
Not good enough.)
By eric the elder
June 3, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
but he [Anderson] doesn’t have enough power to hit even a double on a consistent basis
Some of you with better memories, help me. Didn’t Anderson hit one to the left field warning track last week? Obviously, warning track power does not a slugger make, but it ought to suggest enough to hit doubles.
Also, blazing speed can stretch singles into doubles, just as McCann stretches doubles into singles.
By Bojack
June 3, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox I agree with you on Anderson. The kid can play if given a chance. DAP, Give the kid a break, Blanco got one and they don’t plan to send him back.Who’s to say Josh comes out hot and pulls a BRUSEEEEEEEEEEEE.We all know Norton and Omar are just back ups and Bobby does play favorites. It damn can’t hurt nothing. Norton and Omar last night 0-8 and 2 mental errors. God bless the USA.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
Austin
The point was that Soto is ever so slightly more deserving. ie, taking away fan bias, team loyalty, objectively Soto might jsut deserve the start slightly more right now.
It has nothing to do with who I would or wouldn’t vote for. I was just responding to all the people who are talking like its some sort of crime that McCann isn’t leading in the voting.
By BH
June 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
I do have the new My Morning Jacket.
And it is spectacular.
By KyleH
June 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
As I was watching the game last night, i saw the 3-0 count and said, you’ve gotta green light him here. And Bobby Cox made a brilliant move and im not just saying that because escobar hit a homer. With a man on second, getting a walk sets up a double play and nothing else, and we all know about the braves and double plays. Swinging at least advances the runner and avoids the double play that would seemingly destroy all hope. You all can criticise Bobby Cox all you want, but he looked pretty genius last night.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Renegator,
If you’ve seen Campillo’s last three starts, you’d know why Corky is catching him. Each time Campillo has been caughtby Corky, he’s dominated. Until this string breaks, the Campillo/Miller battery will stay in tact for good reason.
By Tony C.
June 3, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
I think he should drop “thunderstruck” as his song from the bullpen-unless he [Smoltz]really really loves that song. it isn’t nearly nasty enough to convery the stuff and the will behind it, that batters are about to face; maybe “for whom the bell tolls” by Metallica (even makes a baseball joke about the bullpen bell) or something a little more ferocious than “thunderstruck”
By Reid in EAV
June 3, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Chris Ruddick of The Sports Network has a pretty good comment on All-Star voting:
*WHY EVEN BOTHER WITH ALL-STAR GAME VOTING?
At what point does Bud Selig do the inevitable and just make the All-Star Game the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees versus the rest of the league? I guess the Mid-Summer Classic wouldn’t “count” then, would it?
The first round of AL balloting came back and, of course, seven of the nine starters were from the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees.
I have no idea how Ichiro Suzuki and Vladimir Guerrero made their way into the starting outfield. It must have been some mistake. I am sure Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu or J.D. Drew will find their way into the starting lineup at some point.
The NL seems to have gotten it right so far with a huge, glaring exception in the outfield named Ken Griffey Jr. I know it is a game for the fans, so they should be the ones to vote, but can it really be considered an All-Star Game if a guy hitting below .250 gets in?
The NFL realized this problem a few years ago and made the fan vote just one- third of the equation along with input from players and coaches.
MLB should look into implementing something similar.*
By G Roberts
June 3, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Anyone who thinks hitting the homerun was wrong, probably doesn’t want to keep score in kid’s games and believes that “Barry” will be a good President.
By Edd
June 3, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
When you always go by the numbers the house wins ( the other team in baseball ), ,you have to use your gut feeling too, that’s what makes winners ,, winners. Know when to hold em, know when to fold em.. Go Braves!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Austin
June 3, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
FJR
Soto does have better across the board numbers than McCann. Although I am a bias Braves fan so I would give the edge to McCann! But yeah Soto’s numbers are ever so slightly better.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
let us count Josh Anderson’s CAREER ML extra base hits. 3. In 71 major league at bats. And those were all doubles, no triples, despite all of his speed and no homers.
I’m fine with Josh Anderson playing even the majority of the time while Kotsay is out, but I jsut don’t get this “maybe he will turn into Jay Bruce, he can learn to hit for power and walk and maybe even learn a 100 mph fastball” talk.
Josh is what he is, he’s extremely fast, has no power and has a below average eye.
By Kentavo
June 3, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Okay, I found it, in 2000, Furcal played 31 games at 2nd and 110 at SS. Whereas the majority are at SS, that’s still a bit of shuffling from one side of the bag to the other, in my mind.
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Too many closers already use the For Whom the Bell Tolls/Enter Sandman/Hell’s Bells entrance music.
Smoltz should go with something different. How about Zep’s “Immigrant Song”? White Zombie’s “Thunder Kiss ‘65”, perhaps? Think about it. It would hard for anyone to deny that it would be cool with Smoltz taking the mound to this.
He could hit the bullpen door as soon as the drums hit. It would be awesome.
By KC
June 3, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Mike In LA: I know you didn’t ask me, but in regard to Smoltz’s effectiveness without the splitter…
If memory serves me correctly (somebody correct me if I’m wrong), he didn’t use the split-fingered fastball at all for multiple seasons (while closing), because the splitter put too much stress on his elbow. And he of course managed quite well without it.
Smoltz still has all the same velocity from the 3/4 arm slot, and may be able to affect a little more movement on his fastball from this angle. His slider, from what we hear, is equally nasty from this angle as it was with the old one.
He’ll likely throw a few different types of fastballs, the slider, and the occasional curve. Coming out of the pen where you don’t need as many pitches - and with his stuff… that should be more than enough to get it done.
The biggest thing will be his command. That’s what hurt him last night. He got a few pitches up. If he can locate with this new angle (which actually isn’t entirely new, as he’s used it before in years past for limited stretches)… he’ll be just fine.
By pfunkatl2
June 3, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
I post infrequently, so some of you might not realize that I think Yunel is a STUD-always have since he came up last year. I have defended his “cuban attitude” and lauded his abilities both defensive and offensive.
I am PLEASED to say that it seems MOST bloggers now AGREE. DOB tried to stir you all up and yet I have seen VERY FEW negative comments about Esco! Hope that holds up if he should go into a slump, or make another bone-headed defensivive play like at Cinn;)
Also, I see that Campillo is stuck with Miller…it makes sense in a BC way, because they HAVE to rest Mac on occasion, and Camp has been doing GREAT as a starter with (or in SPITE of) Porky catching.
Welcome back DOB, and thanks CR for your great blogs in Dave’s absence!
See you all at the park tonite!
By Lew
June 3, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Someone commented earlier that 99 times out of 100 it’s the wrong move to swing at a 3-0 pitch. ????????
I would be willing to bet that the batting average of most players on 3-0 rises dramatically because in all likelihood, the pitcher is going to put it over the plate. If you’re a hitter who looks for a certain pitch in a certain zone (like Chipper, eg), that could well be the best pitch of the at bat and exactly what you’re looking for. Why not swing? If a pitcher grooves one, are you supposed to let it go past? I don’t think so.
By Tami
June 3, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Without reading the bloggers’ comments (sorry…don’t have time today), DOB, I have no problem with Escobar hitting the 2-run walk-off homer. In fact, I was ecstatic that SOMEONE ended the game in the home half of the 10th. I was getting kind of antsy about the prospect of it going to another extra inning not knowing how the bullpen would fare.
I think Smoltzie had way too much of an adrenaline rush going and was forcing his delivery, thus getting into trouble. The sooner he realizes that he’s not 36 anymore (which was his age when he last pitched as a closer), the better off he’ll be. In other words, don’t live off of what was accomplished in this role before. He’s not the same pitcher now as he was then. In fact, I’m wondering just how much he has left. I wouldn’t want him to pitch until his arm fell off…so to speak. Not good for his golf game in retirement…LOL.
Great win last night, and hope they’re able to keep it up!
By Cro25
June 3, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
First, let me say that I have absolutely no problem with a guy swinging on a 3-0 count in that spot as long as he wasn’t given the “take” sign. I liked the aggressiveness and think that is what the Braves lack sometimes.
I would like to address DOB saying that nationality and language plays into peoples’ feelings lately about Escobar. I personally have hoped that Yunel will realize he is a great talent and doesn’t need to showboat all the time. I remember when Andruw first came up and had to be calmed a time or two by Bobby. I am surprised that Yunel’s antics haven’t bought him more chin music from opposing teams, but in time it will. I just subscribe to the theory that you just go out and play the game and leave all of that other mess at home. Watch Chase Utley and Chipper Jones and I could name many others that just play the game. Maybe in time he will grow up. My opinion has nothing to do with nationality or race or what language he speaks, it’s just how I feel the game should be played.
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
[Thunderstruck] isn’t nearly nasty enough to convery the stuff and the will behind it
Then how about Bulls on Parade?
The microphone explodes, shatterin’ the molds. Either drop the hits like de la o or get the f#ck off the commode. With the sure shot, sure to make the bodies drop, Drop an don’t copy yo, don’t call this a co-opt. Terror rains drenchin’, quenchin’ the thirst of the power dons, that five sided fist-a-gon…
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Lew: regarding the 3-0 count. I’d agree your 5:49 post. I think it’s wise to take on that count early in the game if only to increase the starters pitch counts, but late in the game, if that ball is hittable, there is no reason to take it, especially in Yunel’s situation last night. Of course, if it were the likes of Langerhans, Woodward, Orr, Pratt, etc. up there, take. Take. Take. And then have a serious talk with the GM as to why that guy is even on the 25 man roster.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
like its some sort of crime that McCann isn’t leading in the voting FJR
Oh, but it is! ; )
10Paul—
Yeah, it’s after McCann played both the day game and the night game. Gonna need a little time on the DGADOBPT4SGEBRJG stat, but here’s the results for GADO:
.295 (13-44) with 4 doubles, 3 homers, and 9 RBI. But that’s if you count 5/21, which was a NGASG1OADH (Night Game After Starting Game 1 Of A Double-Header). So if take that out, he’s hitting .250 with 3 doubles and 7 RBI.
Uuuhhh…let’s see…DGADO….429 (3-7) with a homer and 3 RBI.
Reid in EAV—
McCann’s splits for DG (such a small abbreviation):
.250 (16-64) with 5 doubles, 5 homers, 12 RBI, a .310 OBP, and a .563 SLG.
McCann is on pace to catch like 150 games. Far too many. Efrim
Yeah, that is a lot. And maybe this night off is good after he got hit in the SPINE last night by Olsen.
OrlandoFan—
LOL…
Yeah, OK, so Soto cann throw out base runners, and his numbers are freakishly similar to McCann’s at the moment, but only once in my entire years of voting for All-Stars (this is my third year) have I voted for a catcher other than McCann (last year), and I ain’t gonna do it again! (Can’t even remember who the guy was—it left a bad taste or something…8 ) )
By MGL
June 3, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
I don’t have a problem with a little showboating by Escobar. He is obviously a high energy, emotional kind of guy. A lot of people comment that this team does not show enough emotion (fire or passion it’s usually called) Reyes and Rollins have been known to showboat too. Let the kid have a little fun when he does something good. Cox will call him on it when it gets too bad.
By Greg
June 3, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Unfortunately, Yunel’s performance last night will give Bobby the excuse to bat him in the 1-spot for the rest of the season. Blanco is a much better leadoff hitter, but Bobby won’t see that until it’s far too late. Look what happened last year with Andruw. Bobby wouldn’t move him out of clean-up till he had utterly destroyed the Braves chances of competing for a title.
At least Yunel has some history as a leadoff man, but can someone please explain BC’s fascination with Greg Norton in LF? This makes no sense, especially when we have Anderson.
Finally, I believe that Smoltz would prefer not to have any music play when he entered the game.
DOB: That would be a good question for you, the music maven, what would Smoltz really like for his entry music? Is he a country fan? An EZ listening guy? I know he’s not a metal head.
Regardless, I think tradition mandates that he enter to “Thunderstruck.” Even though I live six hours away, I once got to see Smoltz close a game at the Ted. He entered to “Thunderstruck” and a surge of electricity went through the crowd. We stood for every pitch in the ninth. It was awesome. Best time I ever had at the Ted.
By Indian Girl
June 3, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Escobar’s talent is a given. Taking it to a homer ona 3-0 is NO PROBLEM. What is a problem however, is that he has been in the United States over 2 years now and still doesn’t speak ENGLISH!! Someone get him a tutor and advise him to learn the language!!
By JerseyGil
June 3, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Can some one explain to me how the MLB DRAFT work….I never pay attention of the Draft…but the last couple year with all the super prospect and ESPN show it now i like to know how the Met,Phillis,Yankee, pick before the Braves.
By KC
June 3, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
Reid in EAV: You left the Cubs out of the picture.
Soto is leading the NL in all-star voting amongst catchers, despite the fact that McCann has clearly better numbers… and McCann plays in a pitcher’s park, whereas Soto plays at Wrigley.
Mark DeRosa is 86,000 votes up on Dan Uggla!
Alfonzo Soriano and F******* lead the NL in outfield all-star votes, which is a total joke.
So make sure you don’t leave the Cubs out of the picture. They’re going to have the largest collection of undeserving all-stars (or undeserving starters) for the Senior Circuit this season.
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
My favorite team is the Braves. My 2nd: Redsox. Watch them play, especially when it’s late in season and post season and you see guys loose, having fun, and FULL of MOXY. I think the team follows Chipper too much in the lack of outward fire. Don’t get me wring. I love CJ. I just wish all the guys acted like they had a little more fire in their bellies. Just watch the Redsox lineup at the plate. They’re patient. They try to wait every pitcher out till they get what they want. And you can tell they get their way more often than not. That’s why their games last longer than others. We too have had similar success this year when we take that same approach.
By Greg
June 3, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil: The Braves don’t have a first-round pick this year. They lost number 18 to the Mets when they signed Glavine.
By MGL
June 3, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
DOB - What kind of deal did KC do with Bryan Pena? They picked him up off waivers on May 30 then turned around and DFA’d him on May 31. Are they hoping no one will claim him this time and they can stuff him in AAA. Incidentally, Kyle Davis was recalled from AAA on the 31st also.
By pfunkatl2
June 3, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
In regards to the draft, although I don’t follow it like the NFL draft, I BELIEVE we gave up our #1 pick this year when we signed Glavine. It seems if they had waited another few days or a week we could have gotten him with no loss of pick(correct me if I am wrong).
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Just got back from clubhouse, after waiting for 30 minutes following B.P. to talk to Smoltz (he eventually sent word through a team PR man that he wouldn’t be able to come out to speak to us, just before clubhouse closed to media).
Anyway, Bobby said Smoltz was sore today. “Not good, not bad,” he said. Smoltz spent the afternoon in the training room….
HAMPTON UPDATE: Threw off mound today for first time since 1987. No, just seemed like that. He threw off mound for first time since he reinjured the pectoral muscle in that minor league game that was supposed to be his final tuneup before return to bigs. Good news: He said it felt good today. Just 25 throws though, all fastballs at about 75-percent effort.
He’ll do that a few more times, increasing the intensity and number of pitches and type of pitches, then, go rehab. I asked if All-Star break was realistic target for his return to Braves, and he said yes, barring setbacks, that was about right….
KOTSAY just told me he fully expects to return, but just got to wait until his spasms are gone. No timetable, he’s getting treatment all day. Said he knows that fans wonder what’s going on and when/if he’ll be back, and wishes he could say when, but just can’t with back issues like this….
NORTON in lineup again, in left and batting fifth. Yunel leading off, Blanco batting eighth….
Ellen, point taken. But my comment was not directed toward vast majority of fans, just that segment it applies to. And disrespectful of non-U.S. players? It was quite the opposite, at least my intent was. I was saying that their every actions are more (unfairly) scrutinized by some because they don’t do interviews in English or don’t have the expressions that some prefer from their ballplayers. That’s all.
Again, point taken, though. Sorry if it offended you. But that’s how I feel about the matter.
By Lawrence
June 3, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Most of the so called baseball fans on these blogs would’nt know a rbi from a balk.You gripe because a game winning homer comes on a 3-0 count.You gripe because Cox plays a veteran in the outfield instead of two rookies.If the relievers pitch you complain about which ones are used.If Bobby needs an extra inning out of a starter because the bullpen needs rest you gripe.The batting order does not suit you either.I swear some of you idiot’s would complain if they hung you with a “new” rope.Get a life people.
By JimD
June 3, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Indian Girl Escobar’s talent is a given. Taking it to a homer ona 3-0 is NO PROBLEM. What is a problem however, is that he has been in the United States over 2 years now and still doesn’t speak ENGLISH!! Someone get him a tutor and advise him to learn the language!!
I am from South GA. I know some people born and raised in the US that STILL can’t speak English. Why make a big deal out of Escobar? Maybe he can speak it but is not comfortable enough for an interview. Maybe he was afraid of Jerome Jurenovich. I know I would be.
By Brad
June 3, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
I think the point with regards to Yunel swinging on 3-0 should not be an issue because of what he set out to do in that situation. His goal in coming up to the plate was to advance the runner. You can’t advance a runner by taking a walk and their is no better pitch to hit a fly ball than on 3-0 when a pitcher isn’t necessarily trying to hit the corners or keep the ball down at your knees.
If Yunel walks, he doesn’t accomplish his goal. Instead, he got the fly ball he wanted and luckily, got more than he was trying to get.
By Greg O.
June 3, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil, The Braves had to give their pick (No. 18) to the Mets for signing Tom Glavine, a Type A Free Agent. The team that loses a top-tier free agent receives the pick of the team that signed their former player, assuming the signing happened before the deadline to offer salary arbitration or the team did offer salary arbitration to the free agent. The logical next question is about Andruw Jones and why the Braves won’t get anything for him - the Braves didn’t offer him salary arbitration for fear that he’d accept it and get $20 million from it. The Braves do get a sandwich pick (between first and second rounds, No. 40 overall), however, for losing Ron Mahay to the Royals.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
KC—
Good points about McCann playing at Turner Field vs. Soto playing at Wrigley.
By Carolyn Wilder
June 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
I am a huge Yunel fan!!And a huge BRaves fan!! I was complaining about Bobby hitting Kelly #1 on a blog, and he must have listened to me…lol Now, Bobby I am pleading with you to play Josh Anderson in the outfield and bring in Norton off the bench!! Josh could leadoff and Yunel follow, or flip flop the duo.What do you think peeps? Dave?
By Shamus Thacker
June 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
I just ate pig at Bar-L Barbecue in Rockmart. It’s better’n The Four Seasons in my sauce-fetished opinion. Less than 3-bucks for a King [HUMONGOUS-MEGA-JUMBO] poke bobbycue! They’ll even GIVE extra sauce to slather your fries in. The slaw is excellent. Really good stuff.
By john hoar
June 3, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Bo Diddley, 1955 in north Mississippi. My first concert and what I remember most:
Shake yore can! Shake yore can! If you can’t shake yore can, Shake anybody’s can!
Nice memories Mr. Diddley.
By flange1
June 3, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Afternoon all,
Thanks for the new blog DOB.
It is amazing some of the ignorant things blog denizens come up with.
I had a whole lot to say about the Escobar 3-0 swing, but if you read Caveman’s response at 5:19, he pretty much said it right!
If Escobar had the green light from Bobby, then you can not blame him AT ALL for swinging.
You would have a problem with Bobby.
Any real baseball fan knows that you give good hitters the green light on some 3-0 counts.
If you don’t like Yunel because he is latin or if he is cocky, fine, say that, but don’t say he did something wrong, because he didn’t.
I would love to have 7 more Yunels on my team.
By raindawg722
June 3, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
FJR, and KyleH, right on. With the winning run on second, Escobar’s run didn’t mean a thing. A walk would have only set up the force or potential double play. The idea was to either move the runner on second over or drive him in and that could not have been accomplished by drawing a walk. Furthermore, Cox gave him the green light. This should not even be an issue.
By bravesedandconfused
June 3, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
oh to be at the game tonight…. top 9th..Braves lead by 1…the gate swings open…Smoltz stalks to the mound to the sound of…”F-R-E-E that spells free…credit report-dot-com baby”. great job Turner-Field-Promo Guy!
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Oh, and the Corkster is batting seventh.
By AndyA
June 3, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I have to agree with the English comment about Escobar. I am a huge fan of his, but I follow the Braves closely. My wife, on the other hand, only really knows Francouer. I have no problem with him not speaking English, not a requirement by any means. But, if he can maintain his level of play, I don’t doubt it would help his bank account to learn the language. Maybe the idea is offensive to some, but the truth hurts sometimes.
By KC
June 3, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
DOB: Wow… the all-star break is what they’re hoping for with Hampton?
Geeze. I kind of thought, if all went well, he may possibly be back around the end of this month. That boy doesn’t mend quickly, does he?
Though, if Reyes and Campillo are still pitching as well as they are right now… who would Hampton replace?
If both Reyes and Campillo are still throwing well (and the rest of the rotation is healthy), I’d bet Hampton will see a little more rehab time at Richmond than is customary.
You’d hate to disrupt this rotation until you’re absolutely sure (or as “absolutely sure” as you can be with him) that Hampton is ready to go.
By lt200
June 3, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
DOB - Are we to assume that Smoltz is unavailable tonight?
By Will
June 3, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
It was interesting to give Escobar the swing on 3-0, but i do understand that he had confidence Escobar would hit it to right side. Personally the only reason i even thought twice about it was because as much as i love the Braves i still think Bobby Cox is a poor in-game decision maker. He is one of the best at guiding a club through the rigors of the long season, but i just have never cared for his decision making.
By DonCoburleone
June 3, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
DOB you may have answered this before and I just didn’t see it, but is Corky now Campillo’s personal catcher? It seems to be turning into that…
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
MGL: Just talked to a scout who told me he anticipated B. Pena could be in “limbo” for some time, because several teams are likely to do what KC did — claim him off waivers, then try to get him through waivers themselves so they can get him to Triple-A.
With the lack of catching out there right now, plenty of teams want some catching depth. Just aren’t willing to give up anything of value to get Pena….
PFUNK: Yes, Braves gave up their first-round pick as compensation for signing Glavine. They don’t pick until the 40th overall selection, which is a compensation pick they got from KC for Royals signing Mahay.
Braves pick 40th, then 64, 70, 96 and 130.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
bravesedandconfused—
LOL!! We kept seein’ that ad for freecreditreport.com on the wall by the visitors’ dugout last night, and of course that song kept going threw our heads (and out our mouths at times).
That guy’s almost as annoying as the UPS dude. Because once you get that song in your head, you can’t get it out! Now I’m gonna be singing that to myself all night…
By Lew
June 3, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Lawrence-You’re just noticing this phenomenon?
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Now do ya’ll believe me about the lineup?
By THB
June 3, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
This isn’t exactly relevant, seeing as we don’t know how this years team will end up or who will step up, but here goes.
I would actually like to see the Braves go out and snag a top pitching prospect this offseason, maybe instead of one of the big name pitchers who will butcher the farm. I was thinking someone along the lines of Daryl Thomson or Homer Bailey (Both with the Reds-who have a crowded rotation). Oswalt will likely be available, but at 30 years old, not pitching well, I don’t know. If we could snag a young guy like Wren got with Jurrjens, then I think we’d be better off.
If we have a surplus at a position (Like with Edgar), then I think that’s the way to go. Not sure if we will, but it’s possible. Maybe with the bullpen? If we have Soriano, Gonzalez, Acosta, Moylan (coming back), and Boyer who all have setup or closer potential, one could be expendable. Think the Reds would consider a Soriano + prospect (B prospect) for Bailey or Thomson and a mid prospect?
Anyway, just thinking out loud.
By Dan in NJ
June 3, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Anyone know what channel the game is on? FS? SS?
By Austin
June 3, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Nothin’ like having your 5th hole hitter hitting .171 with 1 HR and your 7 hole hitter hitting .077
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
By the way, some have asked: Yes, Braves are sticking with a 13-man pitching staff for the time being. I’d guess for the forseeable future, given the health of Smoltz, Soriano, etc.
Bobby said both Smoltz and Soriano are day-to-day situations, that he’ll talk to each of them each day to see if they can pitch that night.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
I don’t mind that people don’t hold Cox in as high of a regard as I do. People love to bash, bash, bash. That’s all well and good but it’s only fair that if one of his managerial decisions pays off, you give him credit. I don’t think enough Cox bashers have here for giving Escobar the green-light on 3-0.
Just like Jo-Jo vs. Arizona. Many people wanted him demoted after that and never thought he’d amount to anything. Then he reels off two great starts and there’s not enough people giving him credit.
I guess I used two examples to illustrate a bigger issue. I know bloggers differ- some are extremely positive and some are extremely negative. But if you give credit where credit is due while also criticizing where you see fit, it’d go a long way in improving your objectivity.
By mr baseball
June 3, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Another night, another strange but predictable lineup from Chance the Manager.
Greg Norton hitting 5th after Tex. Pretty much guarantees our cleanup hitter isn’t going to get much to hit. Is there any rational reason why Norton is hitting in front of Francouer?
Corky Miller and his sub-.100 average hitting behind Francouer. If I’m a Marlins’ pitcher, why in the world would I even think about throwing a pitch within a foot of the plate to Jeff.
Cox is evidently convinced that Anderson can’t play. Why else would he continue sitting on the bench while Norton and his sizzling .171 average is in the lineup every game, and hitting in the 5 hole to boot.
An alternative batting order for tonight:
Blanco, Escobar, Chipper, Tex, Francouer, Johnson, Anderson/Norton, Miller. Would prefer Anderson, but Cox apparently will not pull Norton until his average drops below .100.
Who closes tonight? Acosta? Bennett? Soriano? Smoltz after he got roughed up last night?
My man — O-man.
By Austin
June 3, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Dan in NJ*
Peachtree TV
By Ellen
June 3, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
DOB: Thanks for the response. I didn’t mean any disrespect to you either. Guess the comment just hit me the wrong way. You’re still my favorite AJC sports writer. ;-)
By Steve McP
June 3, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
7 of next 9 games on PTV - anyone got an idea on how to get coverage on Dish Network in NC? Blacked out MLB extra innings, no one seems to be carrying PTV here.
They also have 6 of 9 from June 17th - bad month to get the braves on TV!
By Dan in NJ
June 3, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Thanks Austin. Any chance that Direct TV has that ch. if so what #? thanks in advance.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
CHIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Power outage?????
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
So much for Chipper being a singles hitter.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Chipper is now 4-for-4 with two homers against Badenhop.
And he’s one homer from getting his 400th career homer while batting over .400.
By SoDakBrave
June 3, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Is anyone able to get mlb.tv to work?
By doug
June 3, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
We need more posts like shamus’ post at 6:27. aahhhh old times. Anybody have a good pie story to tell?
By Dan in NJ
June 3, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Sorry, meant Dish Network.
Nice HR by Chipper.
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
There’s a non-single by Chipper. Breakin’ out the big stick tonight with a three-run bomb. The best advice for the Atlanta Braves this year is to hit, hit, and hit some more. If they do that, they’ll be right there at the end.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Chipper’s quote to me this afternoon when I asked about his recent power outage (one RBI and one double in his past 11 games):
“It’s a little mechanical flaw I’m going through right now,” said Jones, who was 15-for-38 (.395) with 14 singles, a double and 11 walks in that 11-game span. “I’m not able to elevate the ball, and when I do I elevate too much.
“I hate to snipe about a line-drive swing, but they don’t pay me to hit singles. It bothers me that I haven’t hit more [homers] lately. But it’ll come. It’s getting close.”
I guess it was getting real close.
By Tomahawkin
June 3, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Atta Boy! “Hoss” hopefully he can carry the offense the rest of the week especially since philly will be rollin in next
Nuff respect!
By Will
June 3, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Man Chipper owns this guy! Norton is this year’s Chris Woodward. Hell, maybe he should bat cleanup next game.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
This Badenhop is awful. He throws a sinker that doesn’t sink and he can’t throw strikes, especially with his slider. We should destroy this guy today with the way he’s going, even with this lineup.
By Mark T.
June 3, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
I dont think Chipper is going through a power outage of anykind. I think Chipper is just not swinging for the fences anymore - just trying to get the best hit he can. And as we can see it seems to be working for him!!!!!!!
By OverlorDDDay
June 3, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
I prefer Woodward catching.
Why is corky still around?
Cant the braves get a backup catcher that hits better than .074?
Come on……. just bring Javy lopez.
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Good grief! Get a load of Corky Miller at the plate. Sheesh, its really hard for me to fathom choosing this guy for anything other than hawking peanuts.
By MGL
June 3, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
DOB - Thanks for the response on B. Pena. Seems like a good guy, hope it works out for him.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Corky is so quiet back there with the glove. His swing is awful and he looks like he’s put on a ton of weight.
Campillo hung that curve to Uggla. First inning Hanley hit a good curve ball for a double but that one Campillo hung.
They seem to be sitting on it no matter the count so hopefully Corky makes an adjustment. Especially with the way they’re swinging at his change.
By edward
June 3, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Bobby gives the green light in 3-0 counts to the hitters he feels are good enough to take that chance. It has worked and it has not worked at times. The fact that Yunel has the light shows how much confidence Bobby has in him. I think people should just lighten up on him. I admit he is not my favorite player, but if he does all the right things and stays right with Bobby then good. The offense will come. I just want some good defense and he has been good on that. The Braves win and that is all that matters to me.
By Steve In Va
June 3, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Can someone tell me wth Norton is playing in this game? His inability to play OF just cost the braves a homerun. He should have caught the foulball!
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
I see how Cox’s decisions are working so far. Norton misses a foul ball in left, then Uggla hits a home run.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
The Florida announcers have been gushing over Jones…yesterday and today. They just adore him.
They’re talking about Chipper possibly moving to 1B in a couple of years.
By A-ville Ranger
June 3, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Good info on Yunel’s offensive stats DOB.It’s the fact that he is far from being a defensive liability that really puts me solidly in his camp though.Furcal had the range and the arm eearly but was much more mistake prone than Escobar has been.In fairness to Furcal he was what 12 ? 13 ? when he joined the show.
By Interested Observer
June 3, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
Let me get this straight, for back-up catcher we sacrifice offense (Corky has a .077 average) for better defense. But for LF we sacrifice defense for Norton’s .171 average. Plus we use up our veteran pinch hitter.
I hate the 13 man pitching staff. I certainly understand the reasoning, but Bobby never uses the extra pitcher he has. So why bother.
Any chance the Braves reclaim Pena and sneak him to Richmond?
Has anyone seen anything about how the ratings are doing for TBS’ Sunday games? I know I haven’t watched any.
By Peter Mariano
June 3, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Does any one else agree with me that sportsouth is way better than Peachtree tv? and chip carey might be the most annoying person of all time
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Dan in NJ
RE: Directv
I’m getting the game in HD on 722-1 and on 634.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Haha, even our governor Charlie Crist is campaigning to “bring Chipper back to Florida” sine they were talking about how he went to school in Jax. Maybe Chipper’s underrated nationally, but he gets a ton of love from the Marlins.
By A-ville Ranger
June 3, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Yunel just showed his one real weakness,he doesn’t have good instincts on the bases.
By Bubba Brown
June 3, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, Big fan of the blog with a question out of pure curiosity. Who is your favorite big league ballclub?
PS- How can anyone who has watched this kid not love Yunel Escobar and the on-his-sleeve love for the game?
By jbutler
June 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Peter Mariano I think Chip Carey is the modern day Ted Baxter. He is one mere plaid sport coat away from assuming the role. Makes me thankful we don’t get it out here in the Rockies…
By Tomahawkin
June 3, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Interested Observer, Good Question… on TBS Ratings
I don’t think the ratings on TBS Sunday games are that good…
Just a hunch since The ESPN Games kills the ratings on Sunday Nights
I wouldn’t be suprised if TBS got rid of the Sunday day games altogether after 2010…
The main reason I watch because I’ve gotten so used to Chip Caray call a game. I might be in the minority but I like listening to him and Buck Martinez…
Offense, COME ON! Chipper is gonna get a Hernia from carrying this team on his back…and WTF Is up with Naw-Ton Hitting Fifth
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Campillo is really struggling.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Corky has set up inside once tonight.
By Mike in LA
June 3, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info KC
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Good work by Campillo getting out of the jam. His stuff still looks good but he doesn’t have his usual control. He’s been getting behind too much. And as mentioned previously, he’s only working one side of the plate. I know he doesn’t have a big fastball but you still have to give the look inside.
Time to put some more runs on the scoreboard vs. this guy Badenhop.
By LT-AA Blogger
June 3, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, why does Clint Sammons not get a look. Is he that bad defensively or is Corky that good defensively?
I still contend we will not make the playoffs with a guy named Corky on the roster.
By End-Note
June 3, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
For you supposed baseball folks, you don’t swing at 3-0 pitches when you are waaaaay ahead. When you are trying to win a game then every pitch is a pitch that can be hit.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Aw, c’mon! Corky has not put on a ton of weight.
Pedro is starting for the Mets tonight…
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
Amazing to me that you need to defend ESCOBAR from anything other than SPORTS AGENTS.!! Wow.!!
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
DOWN ON THE FARM
CHARLIE MORTON is starting off strong tonight, blowing away the first six DURHAM hitters. Lest you think the BULLS are chopped liver, they took over second in the IL in hitting after the SYRACUSE CHIEFS fell to third place.
MORTON’s setting them up with heat and putting them away, last out with a nasty slider. In his last start against SYRACUSE, he used his curve as a very effective out pitch. Tonight its a mix so far; heat, change-up, and the last one a slider. This young man’s gonna’ be a hit in ATLANTA.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
Uggla’s amazing.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
Yikes. Uggla strikes TWICE.
By woogidy
June 3, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
What the fUggla?
By Austin
June 3, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
I uhhhh think they can stop pitching to Uggla now.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Great year at the bat for Chipper, poor year with the glove.
Campillo can’t last much longer. Just doesn’t have it tonight.
By Stuart
June 3, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
They are wanting do develop Sammons by giving him ABs at AAA. It does no good to have him up here not playing, but once a week. Remember in baseball, you have to develop talent to have a future.
Also, Skip and Pete are on the radio, cracking up about Batman and Robin parechuting into the stadium on blind date night Friday night vs. the Phils. Funny stuff.
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Campillo doesn’t seem to have very good stuff tonight..
By Robin
June 3, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
:( We’re gettin’ “Jay Bruce-ed” by Uggly! Tear up that scouting report! Dangit!
By ijonathan
June 3, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
I think we can all agree that Chipper probably got robbed of the Gold Glove last year.
This year he’s not coming close to winning it. Chipper’s starting to look old and immobile at the 3rd sack…
By FJR
June 3, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
look at the corkster beat that out!
By Shamus Thacker
June 3, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Hope Hammy rehabs in Rome. The second he winces I’m gonna pucker my butt, then profanely remove any and all congestion from my lungs…
Whadda wuss he is!
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
What the hell is Francoeur doing with his back leg? So strange.
By Austin
June 3, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Why does Baddenhop hop like a freakin rabbit after every pitch. Very annoying.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Corky was tremendously lucky there. I am one of the guy’s who defends him saying he’s tremendous defensively but it’s getting to the point where his defense isn’t outweighing his offensive impotence. Why is he leaning off 2nd base? It’s not like he’s going to steal.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Slightly large at-bat here for Escobar, with bases juiced and a one-run deficit, two outs….
Hey, regarding Campillo: He was due for a bad one. I mean, no way he could keep up the pace he was on.
By the way, Chipper passed Murph with that homer, now tied with Al Kaline and yet another former Brave, the Big Cat Galarraga, for 43rd all-time with 399.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Sheesh! All of Corky’s hard work for naught!
He deserved to score there.
By Will
June 3, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Geez Escobar show some patience!
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
A couple of good turns at 2B from Kelly, especially there. Good footwork, quick release, and did a good job avoiding contact.
By Steve from OH
June 3, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Kelly’s made a couple of nice turns tonight.
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
That’s twice KJ has been hit and still made a great turn on the double play. He is improving steadily IMO.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
No doubt, DOB, no one should jump on Campillo too much but we both know there’s going to be a lot of fluke talk. He’s been fantastic all year- both in the pen and as a starter. He just didn’t have it tonight but even then he battled and kept us in the game. At home, I like our chances in this game.
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
If Cox can muster the courage, maybe he can sit down with the team and tell ‘em to stop swinging at the first pitch with the bases loaded! Yunel surely isn’t the only one, but it happens all the time.
By fastasballs
June 3, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
It’s utterly disappointing to see Cox putting a line up on the field that obviously doesn’t give the team the best chance to win.
I’m not even speaking of Corky, but Norton starting in left instead of Anderson? How many defensive miscues can the guy make? He’s already cost one run so far this game. Uggla never would have had the chance to hit that homerun had he caught the foul ball that even Diaz could have caught.
I’m sure Anderson can hit .170 or so, whatever Norton is down to at the moment, but he can manage to play defense & create runs with his legs, something Norton can’t.
Norton was brought here as a pinch hitter, not an outfield replacement. Let the guys who are professional outfielders play the damn field, not a glorified pinch hitter.
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
This kid BadHop thinks he is Kevin Brown now that he has the lead. Come on Braves!
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Badenhop all of a sudden looks like Brandon Webb out there.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Shamus, you have no idea what you are talking about. By all accounts, his injuries have been legit, yes, he may be injury prone, but its not like he’s not trying to get back.
It just really irks me when posters on the internet will question the manhood of somebody they’ve never met. I would be willing to bet that you’d never in a million years challenge Hampton’s manhood and call him a wuss if you were face to face with him, so do us all a favor and spare us here.
By brian
June 3, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
any surprises that with the bases loaded and the pitcher walking the hitter right in front of him, Escobar swings at the first pitch
Keeping this lineup reminds me of Cox’s stubborness keeping Andruw in the cleanup spot. No reason to not have Blanco or Anderson leading off with Escobar 2nd and Johnson 6th or 7th (or 5th tonight)
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
In case it hasn’t been noted, Chipper is a quarter-million votes ahead of Bill Brasky in the latest All-Star vote totals. Looks like Hoss is headed for a starting gig, barring a big, late push from NY fans.
By the way, just sub Wright for Brasky
By Will
June 3, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
Take away Chippers homer and the Bravos would be getting drilled. This game already has the look and feel of another gutless loss. Frenchy should keep on bulking up it has really done him alot of good this year.
By Choppin Bob
June 3, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
i’m afraid the new bullpen mix may disrupt the recent guys we got goin’ and put us in an uncertain territory of good relief work. I hope to heck 29 and Sori bring us higher than where we are.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
LT-AA, if Corky keeps doing absolutely nothing offensively, perhaps there will be a Sammons sighting. Perhaps. But again, teams like the older, veteran, defensive-minded backup catchers. Not saying I do; saying most teams do.
Personally, I think McCann’s way past needing a mentor or anything like that. And unless he’s learning a lot more from Corky than I would imagine he is, then, well….
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
DOWN ON THE FARM
Anatomy of a strike-out. First pitch, MORTON’s 12-6 curve over, strike one. Fastball inside corner at the knees, strike two. Fastball outside, ball one. Fastball outside corner at the knees, sit down. “What does 3 up and 3 down mean to you airman” “End of an inning??” Good Morning Vietnam. Through five: 1 H (swinging bunt), 1 BB, 6 SO’s. DAMM, its Thanksgiving and CHARLIE’s carving turkeys.
By Ramblin
June 3, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Make sure all you Bobby Cox fans vote for Norton OF in All Star Game.
By Francisco Cabrera
June 3, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Gonna be hard to win games with the bats we have in the outfield right now.
By geauxbraves2000
June 3, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
Has anyone reminded the offense that they are at home, it’s alright to get a few hits?
Easier said than done, I know. Maybe ole what’s his name is pitching the best game of his life.
Geaux Braves!!
By Tomas
June 3, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
Corky is an out dressed as a ball player. Tough game today, no extra base hits since the first inning, and Campillo wasn’t sharp.
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Take away Chippers homer and the Bravos would be getting drilled.
Take away Uggla’s TWO homers and the Marlins would getting drilled. And that, of course, would make them totally gutless.
Does ANY of that really compute for you?
By Steve In VaBch
June 3, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Braves really need to get something going.
richbrave When does Charlie pitch again? Maybe I will drive up to Richmond to check him out.
By SandyB
June 3, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
I have a suggestion.
Could someone put in a “search” feature on the blog, so when DOB or someone responds to a previous post…if we want to read it, we type in the person’s name, and it automatically takes us to their comment? It would save a lot of scrolling back and forth.
just a thought.
By Robin
June 3, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Alright, going to the bottom of the 7th, see you guys in a bit, I’ve got some more fingernails to lose! Let’s break out the lumber whuddaya say?
By TURTSNAP
June 3, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Lets do some math Norton + Corky = Braves loss
By Austin
June 3, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Corky Miller is a beast. No way the Braves trade/release him. Not gonna find to many players with speed like his to avoid the DP. Your also not gonna find a backup catcher who is gonna give you a .070 average.
By JC FROM UT
June 3, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
If Soriano is healthy would Milwaukee be interested in exchange for Bill Hall? Or same scenario but Inge from Detroit? Both Inge and Hall can play LF.
By mp
June 3, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Why do the Braves allow their players (particularly Jeff Bennett) to put a huge CHAW of tobacco in the mouth and “show it off” to thousands of kids? This is doing as much damage to those kids as the steroids issue. It just makes me sick to see him out there pitching with that crap in his mouth. What a loser.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Personally, I think McCann’s way past needing a mentor or anything like that. DOB
Yeah, I don’t think he’s in dire need for a “mentor”. But do we really want a(nother) rookie sitting on the bench doing absolutely nothing 80% of the time? Leave Sammons down in the minors for a while longer. (Though, if he’s gonna be a catcher with this team, he’s destined to ride the pine for 80% of the time, I guess.)
By Random
June 3, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Interested Observer — Interesting and provocative comments.
Wake up, McFann — are you asleep at the wheel? How’d you let this pass without comment, rejoinder or rebuttal?
eric the elder: “Also, blazing speed can stretch singles into doubles, just as McCann stretches doubles into singles.”
By T
June 3, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
America’s Most Frustrating Team continues tonight. How many times do we score early and totally go to sleep at the plate? If they weren’t my favorite team, I would never root or watch this team. Extremely frustrating!
By Will
June 3, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Ncscoots, What does compute for me is as i am posting this message the Braves have 1 hit since the first inning.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Teixeira has homered in three straight games and four of the past five, and the Braves could sure use another….
By ijonathan
June 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
why do we even bother bunting?
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
I didn’t think it was possible. No way was a guy going to make this 15 game stretch look good:
.194/.306/.323
But this guy did it…
.069/.251/.069
The guy has two hits all season. 2! Pena had twice as many. Corky is terrible.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Such astute observations are why I’m paid so modestly.
By woogidy
June 3, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
Norton is to the OF what Reitsma was to the bullpen.
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
DOWN ON THE FARM
10 days ago DURHAM BULLS blasted the R-BRAVES 12-2. Tonight R- BRAVES returning the favor 7-0 through 7 behind BARBARO CANIZARES 3-3 with HR, DIORY HERNANDEZ 2-3 and a HR, and MARK JURICH 3-3 plus a HR.
CHARLIE MORTON now starting to use that jug-handle curve for his out pitch. Through seven, three baserunners: 1 hit, 1 BB, 1 E, AND 10 SO’s.!!!!
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Anderson’s got to do his job there and get the bunt down. For a guy who’s game is predicated on speed, that was an embarrassing bunting display. I would have liked to see more aggressiveness there from Bobby. I would have sent Blanco and would have then had Anderson try and bunt for a hit.
Let’s see if Kelly can come through…
By bf54
June 3, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Give swagger a rest. Juvenile and useless as a basis for analyis. Do you all equate swagger for confidence? Geesh, how do you measure either of these subjective behaviors? Get a grip and leave this triteness behind.
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
That wild pitch finally woke up the schmuck not paying attention to the game because he was too busy talking on the cell phone
By OverlorDDDay
June 3, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Another 1runner…….
Are you kidding me?
By Random
June 3, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave: “Corky was tremendously lucky there.”
Definitely agree.
I swear, looking at the replays, I am 95% convinced that he actually was picked off.
I think the Braves caught a break there (not that it led to anything worth writing home about).
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
SteveinVaBch:
Typically every 5, but you know, really depends on schedule, personnel decisions, injuries etc. I’ll post you up when its set. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him in ATLANTA for a spot start in 5. He’s sharp. Really making progress in the learning department.
By LA Brave
June 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
If people aren’t watching the broadcast, we’re 0-20 when trailing after 7 innings.
By carl
June 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
man, F* corky miller…..we can even blame him for Javy’s retirement
I always said I’d prefer Javy hitting .200 with some pop in his bat than this corky character.
And so much for his defense, he’s responsible for a loss due to several pass balls, and he can’t throw anyone out either >:(
By Will
June 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
I am starting to believe that any lineup including Greg Norton and Corky Miller has got to be considered the most dangerous in baseball. Not even sure its up for debate
By woogidy
June 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
MP, If a baseball player is parenting these kids, and parents don’t have the responsibility to tell them that is not a thing that kids do, then they shouldn’t watch it. Otherwise, it’s time for them to start being a parent. What I am tired of is parents using TV as a babysitter, and an excuse when their kids screw up. There, I said it.
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
The ahole is back on the cell phone, not paying attention to the game. Why bother getting seats right behind home plate if you are not gonna bother watching the game?
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Richbrave, you are doing a fine job chronicling the steady climb of young Charlie. Thank you, sir. We’ll be seeing him sooner than later, I’d imagine. Either when one of the blister boys can’t make a start, or sometime shortly after the All-Star break.
Who do you folks think we’ll see make a start for the Braves first this season, Morton or Hampton?
By McFann
June 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
**Huh…huh? Wha– Sorry, just a little snooze.
Eric the Elder—
McCann’s on pace to break Terry Kennedy’s record for most doubles in a single season by a catcher! Please keep in mind that Brian leads the team in doubles and extra-base hits. Sheesh.
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Oh great. Now ahole is off the cell phone but is too busy texting someone on the cell phone to pay attention. That guy hasn’t seen a pitch in several innings now.
By woogidy
June 3, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
About fUGGLAn time we pitch around him.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
I know it was just one performance, but 8 Innings 1 hit 1 walk and 13 strikeouts?!?!?!?!?!
Morton might be at that point where he has proven all he has to prove in Triple A.
Back to the big club, and this game is well at hand for the Marlins with a one run lead. You think managers tell their team “If we keep it close late in the game, they’ll blow it”, when playing the Braves?
By Will
June 3, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Its now or never this inning for Braves and its gotta be Morton cause Hampton will never make a start for the Braves again.
By bf54
June 3, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
R Hobbs at 2:05. Wanna a check out a gem, give a listen to Ronnie Hawkins’ 1959 “Mary Lou” (“I wanna tell you a story ‘bout a Mary Lou, makin’ her fortune outta fools like you…I had a ‘55 Ford and 2-dollar bill, and when that girl left, man it gave me a thrill…Oh, Mary Lou, (Mary Lou)…she make a young man cry, oh, Mary Lou (Mary Lou) she make a young man cry… … she took the keys to my Cadilac car, jumped in my kitty and she drove afaaaaaaa…ar.”.
(Or words to that effect!)
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Morton. I’d be shocked if Hampton makes another start for us.
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Morton!!! BREAKING NEWS The Braves NEED to make a trade for a QUALITY Left Fielder. ASAP!!!
By N8
June 3, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Just got home.
So let me get this right. We have 3 hits and 3 runs, and 2 of those hits and ALL 3 runs were in the first inning?
Yikes. I thought we were playing the Marlins at home?
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Alright, we got a rally now boys but here comes All for Naught-on
By N8
June 3, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
See. Y’all think my b!tching does no good.
I get home. Make a negative comment and Chipper and Tex both with solid base hits.
What’s that? Greg Norton is now up.
Oh. Never mind.
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Here is the Norton test. I’m betting he drives in a run.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
And Tex and Chipper shut me up with those back to back hits. Hopefully Norton, Frenchy, and I assume Heap will put this one in the books.
By LT-AA Blogger
June 3, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Braves got any come back in em or was last night our one evening of relief?
The only thing I see going for Corky is that it is theoretically impossible for him to get back to batting .000.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Hey Norton! Nice piece of hitting.
By Steve from OH
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Looks like the blind squirrel found his acorn just in time.
By N8
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Well.
My work here appears to be done.
Goodnight all.
By Steve McP
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
What is Norton doing on this team LOL
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
It’s amazing how our luck in close games changes at home. Great work from Chipper, Tex, and Norton.
Say what you want about Norton’s defense, but he has some clutch hits when he first got here and came through again. He’s hit the ball hard all night.
Let’s see if Frenchy can hit the ball to the right side and get us an insurance run.
And who comes in for the save tonight?
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
NORTON!
Uh, oh. Chipper hurting again
By FJR
June 3, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
lol,
Norton has hit the ball hard every time up tonight and just put us ahead.
And you guys wanted to start Josh Anderson over him? You see Anderson’s AB tonight?
By TURTSNAP
June 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Well my math (for one evening) might be wrong.. way to prove me wrong Norton!
DOB - Morton might be a spark for the Braves, although pitching continues not to be THE problem. I hope we see him soon. Morton is the pitcher that you traveled to see in the off season, right? The one that you raved about?
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Way to go Norton. Temporary relief for my heartburn. Now who’s available for left?
By Will
June 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
I will humbly eat my 9:31 post concerning Greg Norton!
By Pierson_Brave
June 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
let the nail biting start.
By LT-AA Blogger
June 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Man- the moment I hit Post- bang- Norton with a hit.
The more pessimistic I am the better the team gets. Good Ole Corky’s bound to hit a homer tonight.
By SandyB
June 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
JUST about the time I’m preparing to have my heart ripped out again, Norton goes and gets a hit.
Way to go dude. Thanks
By A-ville Ranger
June 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Well our ”home boys” took a lead in the 8th…ain’t that somethin’.
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Is Smoltz available for the 9th?
By Scott from Fairburn
June 3, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Frenchy … lose an Andruw gain an Andruw
By TURTSNAP
June 3, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or does Ohman look alot like Stanton in the face? Let’s hope, down the stretch, he pitches like Stanton did for us against the big Lefty hitters.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Morton will make a start soon.
How about a rotation of Hudson, Jurrjens, Reyes, Morton and Hanson next year? Very unlikely, but it’s nice to know we have some projectable arms in the high minors and majors right now.
By Random
June 3, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
DOB: “Such astute observations are why I’m paid so modestly.”
You’re in a good mood tonight — did Carolina Matt get you a puppy?
8-)
By ijonathan
June 3, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Newsflash: if you feel you need to pinch hit for your catcher with a utility guy, then use up your all start catcher on his “night off” in the field (and in essence use 2 guys for one move) then the friggin catcher you are hitting for doesn’t belong in the big leagues!
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
A good pinch hitter is clutch late in the game. Sort of describes Norton to me or what his job description should be.
Does anyone else think Blanco might have complained his way into a bigger strike zone than normal?
By bf54
June 3, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
ncscoots: not picking a fight my man because I usually agree with you, and you post solid…but I think you missed the point. Many of the negative posters are quite knowledgeable, and we all know the failure rate in hitting is over 70 percent - so that’s not it. The reason is expectations, which, of course, are subjective. These are truly fans, and hope springs eternal. I have become a negative poster - and lord knows I have followed this team for 54 years, and cherish success. Having said that…the recent road losses (plus at least one of the AZ losses were heartbreaking (ok, I’ll tone the drama down…to…troubling). Our pitching (suspect in recent years) was outstanding during the last homestand, followed by the recent, sad, sad,road trip - indeed all year) has exceeded expectations by a furlong. Team batting average is UP THERE - and we lose and fail…hell yes, there is reason for “negative posting”…good reason, this is team that has the talent to do better and doesn’t. End of rant…and, keep in mind, I’m not a flamer, and, if I wasn’t clear, I don’t skip your posts, ever.
By TennesseePaul
June 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
McFann, quick, what’s McCann’s DGOPHING stat?
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Awful call by the ump on that 3-1 pitch to McCann. That wasn’t even close.
No sense complaining now…Let’s go Esco!
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Come on Yunel, put this game away
By Braveheart
June 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
McCann is tripping me out. He’s turned into a feisty bugger the last few days. Did you see the angry glare he just gave the ump after that horrible call?
By jbutler
June 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Sounds like a lot of us are full from eating our words about Norton. I have to say…I love being wrong on that one!!
By Chopdawg
June 3, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Watched Charlie in Rome for two seasons; he’s a great guy, fine stuff with an easy motion. Just needed control of that curveball & a little confidence.
CHOP
By brian
June 3, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
anybody want to lay odds on Escobar swinging at the first pitch again with the bases loaded
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Damn, Yunel. That sucks. Well, at least we have the lead back. Lets finish off these fish in the 9th and improve that 0-20 mark to 1-20.
By lexbrave
June 3, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
whats up with umpires this year making delayed strike calls after the batters start to 1st. that ball to brian was clearly nowhere near a strike. its almost like the umpires wait to see if the runner starts to 1st and they call the strike just to show them they are boss.
By bf54
June 3, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
By R.Hobbs
June 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
“Good stuff D.O.B. Just watched the Hawk and the Band performing that great tune last night on the Last Waltz. Robbie’s guitar work and Danko’s backing vocals — tought to beat, although Bo Diddley’s original would still have to be considered the best.”
Sorry Mr. Hobbs the above was posted at 5:09, and this was my response:
Wanna a check out a gem, give a listen to Ronnie Hawkins’ 1959 “Mary Lou” (“I wanna tell you a story ‘bout a Mary Lou, makin’ her fortune outta fools like you…I had a ‘55 Ford and 2-dollar bill, and when that girl left, man it gave me a thrill…Oh, Mary Lou, (Mary Lou)…she make a young man cry, oh, Mary Lou (Mary Lou) she make a young man cry… … she took the keys to my Cadilac car, jumped in my kitty and she drove afaaaaaaa…ar.”.
By keylargo
June 3, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
I’m getting myself geared up for the BLOG DREGS complaining that if we have Smoltz in the pen, BY GOD WE SHOULD USE HIM!!!
Jacque Jones and Luis Gonzales are two pretty good extra outfielders for a team with a $22M payroll.
By carl
June 3, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
LOL, norton secures his LF spot for at least another week
By FJR
June 3, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
ijonathan,
Bobby was also going to use McCann later in the inning when he assumed that the spot would be slightly bigger.
chill dude, your eagerness to complain about bobby is making you look like a dumbazz
By Cody
June 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
The Norton haters need to go to bed he has won three games for us already. And if we hang on tonight it will be four. So shut the F* up.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
10Paul—
He has no DGOPHING stat (yet).
That glare he gave the ump was great! (Very bad call, BTW.)
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
SORIANO!!! I’m nervous. Watching on Gameday.
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
96 mph on that first pitch by Soriano.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Soriano? I would of used Acosta tonight. He blew the save over the weekend……
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim, that would be something.
Despite the talent, I can’t imagine we’d be much better than .500 starting 4 first or second year starters. I do think a 3-4-5 of Jurrjens, Reyes, and Morton will happen though with insurance in terms of Bennett and Campillo in the bullpen. I think Hanson will get another year of seasoning in either AA or AAA. I’m as excited as you are about all the young pitching.
Btw, there’s also some underrated kids in Myrtle Beach that are lighting it up and I’m going to blog about them later.
By Bojack
June 3, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
nice hitting norton. infield in or it would have been a out. Norton pulled his average up to 182. being a brave fan i’m glad but whos to say anderson wouldn’t have done same or better. lucky is lucky does . go braves
By TURTSNAP
June 3, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Raffy looks strong tonight!
By FJR
June 3, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
man soriano looks good. with soriano and norton, looks like a lot of bloggers are going to be eating some crow tonight.
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
DOWN ON THE FARM
CHARLIE MORTON finishes his turkey dinner by carving three steaks from the DURHAM BULLS. He blows away the side in the 8th (13 pitches) and VLADIMER NUNEZ mops up allowing one hit with 1 SO.
CHARLIE MORTON’s line 8 IP, 1 H, 0 R, O ER, 1 BB, 13 - THAT”s THIRTEEN SO’s, 1.11 ERA. The man’s on fire.!!!! His season’s totals are becoming sick. 74 IP, 47 H, 16 R, 14 ER, 0 HR, 2 HB, 24 BB, 68 SO, Practically invisible ERA. Good-bye RICHMOND - Hello ATLANTA.
By A-ville Ranger
June 3, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
At’a boys.
By Noch-a-homa
June 3, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Soriano was smokin’ tonight. One run win!!!!
By woogidy
June 3, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Who is this team and what have they done with the Braves?
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
3-16 in one run games!!!!
Let’s thrash Hendrickson tomorrow.
By McFann
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
ONE RUN WIN!!!
(McCann is 0-2 with a walk as a pinch-“hitter”, BTW.)
By radoncbravesfan
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
3 - 16 and counting in 1 run games
Soriano looked like a real closer tonight
By Greg O.
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Soriano pitches like that the rest of the year, we’re in good shape.
By Steve In VaBch
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Soriano looked sharp tonight!
By jukeandjive
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Thank God! 2 down 5 to go. Let’s go Bravos! (Clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)!
By Chop Chop
June 3, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the love, Matt Lindstrom. We appreciate it.
By Random
June 3, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Great game — great finish.
I think I’m ready to vote in that AJC poll now.
Go, Braves!
By geauxbraves2000
June 3, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Wow, quite impressive there, WTG Norton, and way to kick some tail and take some names Soriano!
Great win!
Nite all.
Geaux Braves!!
By McFann
June 3, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
10Paul—
Wait—maybe I miss read it…what does DGOPHING stand for again?
I’ll get it to ya tomorrow (if there is one).
Night, all!!
By Jeff321
June 3, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
Wow, Soriano actually pitched well tonight. I wonder what thats all about? Oh right, it was a save situation..
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Soriano looked like his old self. Shut up twice in the same night. I like it….
Morton better be on Baseball America’s Hot Sheet this Friday, or I say the blog sends a letter to Raleigh, NC. Just because Morton is a little old to be a top prospect doesn’t mean he isn’t a stud.
Go Braves, Go Braves Farm System, Go Roy Clark.
By THB
June 3, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
The Braves can only play at Turner Field…I’m convinced.
Good game Braves, at least we can still win at home LOL.
Thanks richbrave for the updates, and I’ve got updates on the rest of the farm. A pretty good day for the entire Braves organization.
In Rome, they lost 3-0. Poor Jeff Locke, he’s 1-7 with a 4.69 ERA which isn’t terrible either, but he’s done much better lately. Today, 6.2 IP with 5 K, 2 BB, and 3 ER. Freddie Freeman went 1-4 with another triple, Heyward didn’t play.
Duente Heath got the win for Myrtle Beach, piching 7 innings with 6 K. Gorkys Hernandez went 3-3 with a run and a stolen base.
In Missippi, Hanson had a quality start, but not his best performance. He pitched 6 innings, giving up 5 hits an 3 ER, along with 5 K. Still a solid outing. But they’re losing 3-1 in the 7th inning right now, and Schafer is 0-3 right now.
We’ve all heard about Morton (8 IP, 1 H, 13 K), but Richmond won 7-0.
By Random
June 3, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Great Game!
Way to step into the breach, Jeff Bennett!!!
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
In the blog you mentioned one of my all time favorites - BO DIDDLEY. Really saddened to think of his passing. Gotta’ hang on to his 45’s which I bought in the 50’s..
By Austin
June 3, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
Soriano looked like the Raffy of old. Great news on Soriano. He is a monster when he is right. Clutch hitting by Tex and Norton. Braves win 5-4!
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
bf54, thanks…I think, LOL. But I don’t know the point to which you refer. Was it Will? If so, he and I have made up. :-)
And, for the record, I’m all for honest criticism of the team for areas in which it is warranted, when that criticism is founded on logic and analysis. Redundant emotional hyperbole (or, as I like to call it, b!tchin’ just to be b!tchin’) ain’t that, and of it I am no fan.
But, even so, as most who have been around here any amount of time can attest, I defend to the death the right on any poster to blog anyTHING, within the blog’s ground rules and the bounds of decency. I may think it pins the needle on the clueless meter, but that means absolutely nothing to anybody but me. And that’s as it should be, now and forever, amen. :-)
By FJR
June 3, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Bojack,
did you see anderson’s AB tonight?
For a guy who should be bunting for singles, he bunted awfully twice and then had a terrible swing and bounced out.
Jesus, I can’t believe some people here, Norton has a game winning single and you are still wishing Anderson had started the game. Just wow.
I don’t care what the denizens of this blog think, Norton is a better bat in LF than Anderson. He hit every ball hard tonight, and on the ball he actually hit the softest (which was still pretty hard) he wins the game. I’m okay with Anderson starting some, but only because of defense and to give Norton some time off ehre and there.
Norton’s numbers will climb, they won’t be outstanding, but they’ll be good.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Everyone is pumped about Morton, Hanson and are other top prospects- and rightfully so- but I just wanted to show that we have some really underrated prospects in Myrtle Beach who are doing some impressive things down there. Maybe DOB can add some more about these guys since they don’t get much press:
Deunte Heath 8-2 3.25 ERA 1.40ish WHIP in 72.0 IP(don’t have exact stats since he started tonight and his stats aren’t updated)
Ryne Reynoso 5-3 3.16 ERA 1.14 WHIP in 57.0 IP.
Kyle Cofield 2-4 2.91 ERA 1.80 WHIP in 52.2 IP.(Great ERA, awful WHIP…interesting)
Chris Vines 2-0 2.06 ERA 1.09 WHIP in 39.1 IP.
Brett Butts 3-3 3.82 ERA 1.15 WHIP in 33.0 IP.
Jeffrey Lyman 1-1 3.90 ERA 1.33 WHIP in 29.1 IP.
Scott Diamond 2-0 2.08 ERA 1.00 WHIP in 13.0 IP.(He was just called up from Rome but earned wins in his first two starts).
By chuck
June 3, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
Can’t believe someone was upset that Escobar hit a homerun to win the game last night. Every Braves fan should know that Bobby Cox makes that decision for the young guys. Chipper, McCann and Tex are probably the only Braves who get to make that decision for themselves. I’m more upset by Francouer flailing at ball four a foot off the plate with the bases loaded. That would have given the braves another run and the Smoltz appearance would have had a different result
By Robin
June 3, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Always liked Norton’s bat. Soriano was throwing some GAS too. Taking a blog break at the stretch seemed to work if we’re behind. Will continue to use this method until it doesn’t. Bidness-man’s special tomorrow, let’s keep it goin’.
By mr baseball
June 3, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Let’s tip our hats to the person most responsible for tonight’s win: Freddy Gonzalez. Chipper, Tex & Norton coming up, so who does he bring in? A flame throwing righty who struggled the night before.
Chipper & Tex eat guys like Lindstrom for breakfast, as opposed to soft tossing relievers from either side. After giving up 2 hits to left, Lindstrom was determined not to allow another, and Norton is a veteran stick who knows what to do in those situations. Not sure if he should be in the lineup every day, but he’s not a bad guy to have at the plate in the key spot, at least against guys like Lindstrom.
Thanks, Freddy.
2 nights, 2 wins for my man, O-man. Hope Smoltz can get used to being a middle reliever. The only nights he should close are the nights when Soriano is unavailable.
By bravesfan
June 3, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Stats for Morton tonight:
8 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 13 SO
By Random
June 3, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
mp: “Why do the Braves allow their players (particularly Jeff Bennett) to put a huge CHAW of tobacco in the mouth and “show it off” to thousands of kids? This is doing as much damage to those kids as the steroids issue. It just makes me sick to see him out there pitching with that crap in his mouth. What a loser.”
If it don’t make you want to chew, why do you assume it would make any kids want to chew?
Do you figure that they’re even stupider than you?
That strains credulity.
By N8
June 3, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Cody
“The Norton haters need to go to bed he has won three games for us already. And if we hang on tonight it will be four. So shut the F up.”*
Uh. OK. I’ll just ignore that 7 for 41 (.171), that he’s done. Because in 4 of the 23 games “he’s contributed” to a victory.
It was a nice hit tonight, and as DOB stated earlier, he’s a nice bat off the bench, but NOT as an everyday player.
Case in point:
Against Relief Pitching, he is 7 for 25 (.280) with 0 HR and 6 RBI.
When starting, in his first AB against a pitcher, he is 5 for 13 (.385) with 1 HR and 3 RBI.
His 2nd and 3rd AB in games, he is 2 for 19 (.105) with 0 HR and O RBI.
The man needs to be coming off of the bench. Period.
So NO. I won’t “shut the F up”
But thanks for asking so kindly. Well done.
By Ed Ray Herbert
June 3, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Yipee! We won the game.
NOW LET’S GET RID OF BOBBY COX SO THAT WE HAVE A CHANCE OF MAKING THE PLAYOFFS.
Can the old man!
By Will
June 3, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Soriano looked great tonight hope it keeps up, i am still very worried on what Smoltz role with this team will end up being
By Greg
June 3, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Soriano was brilliant tonight. Maybe Smoltz should take some time to improve his location and let Rafael close for a while.
By another win
June 3, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Another win, the Braves slowly move closer to the Post Season, EAT IT HATERS!!
By ncscoots
June 3, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Efrim, think Lerew, my man. If there are no surgery setbacks, just keep him in mind for 2009. I got a feeling.
By bf54
June 3, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
KC at 6:48 Though, if Reyes and Campillo are still pitching as well as they are right now… who would Hampton replace?
Good question KC, but easily answered: whoever has been (at the time) struggling the most OR whoever is fails to have BC’s confidence. Hopefully, at that time we’ll find two things: a pitcher with a 15-day blister, and an opportunity to see what 38+ months does to a pitcher’s talents. (You will note, of course, that 15 days gives MH enough time to show if any gas is in the tank, or put another way, if he has any heart left!).
By Bojack
June 3, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
cody; we all have opinions and your is no better than anyone else. So you shut the f…up. good night. go braves.
By Austin
June 3, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
The unsung hero of this game is Jeff Bennett 3 IP 1H 4 K. He is a man! He has been great out of the pen all year. He kept us in it till the bats could deliver.
By ijonathan
June 3, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
FJR
First off, I don’t need to be “eager” in criticizing BC, there are several opportunities per game for that.
Second, you missed my point and obviously misunderstood my post. I wsasn’t criticizing Cox’s in-game strategery (shocked, I know) I was criticizing the fact that Corky has a spot on the ML roster. That falls on Wren, and Cox to some degree, I guess.
Fine. So Cox was going to use McCann when the situation was “bigger.” The fact remains that if Corky wasn’t such a crappy, no-stick automatic out, he could have left Corky in to hit in that spot, and used EITHER Omar or McCann as a subsequent PH…or how about this, used BOTH and forced the Marlins into a favorable lefty-righty matchup. And, even if he used McCann as a hitter, with Corky still in the game he wouldn’t have had to use McCann behind the plate if he didn’t want to, and retained most of his night off.
FYI, it’s pronounced “dumas.”
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Stevein VaBch:
Does COX CABLE carry any BRAVES games.?? I’m on black-out in RICHMOND unless FOX, ESPN, or WASHINGTON NATIONALS network carry a game.
By Steve from OH
June 3, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
FJR: Your 10:21 is right on the money.
I can see the argument for Anderson starting, but Norton offers more power. Even so, this whole debate is kind of like debating who was worse last year—Woodward or Orr. Both have their own upsides, but when Kotsay comes back Norton will be on the bench and Anderson in Richmond so the whole argument is essentially pointless.
By Efrim
June 3, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Scoots
Good point about Lerew. His control was spotty, but he had a true power arm. Hopefully he can get back and be effective. Like you said, 2009.
THB
Locke is still maintaining a good K rate, hopefully he can pitch better down the stretch.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
N8,
i don’t think anybody believes norton is a great bat. He’s an adequate bat who is hitting the ball better than his average right now. But look at what we have to replace him with. He’s the best bat we can put in LF with what is on the roster right now.
By richbrave
June 3, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Some of you are speculating about who’s gonna’ be on the staff and in the various positions next year. Well, put CHARLIE MORTON and JASON HEYWARD on the can’t touch, no trade list. Maybe HEYWARD gets to AAA next year, but MORTON’s in ATLANTA. I think they are both gonna’ be fantastic for ATLANTA in the future, barring injury, of course.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
also, unfortunately, god on the pitching rubber, AARON HARANG, lost again. He’s now 2-8.
By Random
June 3, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
bf54: “Good question KC”
Good answer, bf54!
FJR: “Jesus, I can’t believe some people here, Norton has a game winning single and you are still wishing Anderson had started the game. Just wow”
Ditto for me, sir — wow.
(‘Cept it was a double. Still — point taken, and good point it is.)
By Bojack
June 3, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
FJR N8’s blog at 10;26 goes for you too! Jesus has nothing to do with you opinion of josh. judge not brother. go braves and thanks N8.
By Will
June 3, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Another win, Lets get some road wins before you tell all the haters to eat it! We have seen this story over and over this year already. I hope they win the next 10 in a row on the road but until that happens its hard to logically think post season!
By eric the elder
June 3, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
McFann
Don’t let Random get you all worked up. I typed it with a smile. It was a throw away line. Relax. Sheesh.
By FloridaBrave
June 3, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
richbrave,
I doubt Heyward gets to AAA next year. MAYBE, he starts in AA next year but that’s assuming a lot. That’s assuming he gets called up, hits well in Myrtle Beach, and has a good summer. He’s only 18(or is he 19) and the Braves obviously won’t rush him.
I think we should be able to pencil Schafer and Morton into the lineup and rotation though.
By Random
June 3, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Austin: “The unsung hero of this game is Jeff Bennett 3 IP 1H 4 K. He is a man! He has been great out of the pen all year. He kept us in it till the bats could deliver”
Amen to that, brother!!
And all the people said …
*”AMEN!!!”
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Can’t see Heyward in Triple-A next year. No way. Kid is 18.
By Hack
June 3, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
I played little league with Lindstrom in Idaho. That dude could throw hard even when he was 12. I was playing second base one game and he drilled some kid in the face with his fastball…blood everywhere! It’s weird to see him now pitching in the majors, and nice to see him serving up a win for the Braves!
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
I asked Frank Wren about Schafer and Morton tonight in clubhouse after game, got him alone for a few minutes while everyone was waiting for Chipper.
Anyway, I asked about Schafer and Frank brought up Morton. I said something like, “Good report on Schafer’s first game back?” And he said yeah, he had a nice game. Then I asked if he’d heard how he did tonight, and Frank said no, that the guy who was dominant tonight was Charlie Morton.
And since our man Richbrave had kept us abreast, I was able to tell Frank, “Yeah, 10 strikeouts through seven innings, something like that?” And Frank said yes.
And then I asked when we would see him, and Frank said when they have that need.
I said, “But he’s showing he’s ready?” And Frank said, “He’s showing us more every day.”
By KYFan
June 3, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
People keep talking about outfield help and who to trade for? Anyone thought that it may be worth the experiment and the Braves would give up nothing to give Bonds a shot? Any thoughts?
By ObiWanKobe
June 3, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, What do you think about having Smoltz come out to “God is Gonna Cut You Down”, (by Mr. Cash for the neophytes)?
By Tug McGraw
June 3, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
Lindstrom has a John Jameson Fastball - fast and straight like Irish Whiskey should be
By N8
June 3, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
FJR
I don’t doubt that Norton is the best bat. But until Anderson gets a few starts as well to get in a routine, hard to judge him.
Besides, NEITHER of them might offer much at the plate, and I’m gonna say that Anderson’s speed, along with his defense might prevent LOSSES more than Norton’s bat is gonna provide victory.
I don’t doubt that occasionally Norton will come up with a big hit (as he did tonight). But Anderson more than likely will ALWAYS play stellar defense in LF.
To each his own. We’re BOTH entitled to our opinions, correct?
By David O'Brien
June 3, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
Yet another measure of Hank’s greatness: Chipper’s two hits tonight moved him past Eddie Mathews into second place on the Braves’ all-time franchise hits list with 2,202.
Putting him a mere 1,398 hits behind the Hammer (3,600).
By HaRdTiMe
June 3, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
Anyone else ondering what is going on when your back-up catcher is batting .069 and still getting starts? There has got to be someone else…
By monty
June 3, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
Everyone relax, take a deep breath, we are at home, where we can do no wrong. Oh, we can do wrong all right, but somehow it all ends up “Happily Everafter.” At this magical place called “the Ted.” A place where clutch hitting and clutch pitching take place on a nightly basis. But don’t let them step outside the friendly confines because the magic can only happen at the Ted! Outside the Ted there can only be “weeping and gnashiing of teeth!”
By uga-brave
June 3, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
DOB,
sounds like morton is a keeper, to think you were right there in AZ. to see him make that big first impression.
just one question? how many teams starting outfield hit 6,7,8 in the order. on nights when we see a right hander we go, frenchy, norton, and blanco.
thats kind of like telling frenchy he is at the head of the delta tau chi pledge class.
By FJR
June 3, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
N8,
My problem isn’t so much with the people who want Anderson in tehre for defense, its the ones who keep acting like he’s the better offensive player that get on my nerves and that don’t see that Norton is mostly having bad luck right now. He’s had mostly good ABs.
I am getting sick of the Norton = woodward posts, that’s all. No big deal, and I mostly think you have insightful things to say, even if I disagree with a fair amount.
By uga-brave
June 3, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
corky’s offense tells you just how bad javy must of slipped defensively.
got a hunch you will see him replaced pretty soon. gotta be a receiver out there that can give you more with the stick. as the weather heats up b’macc is gonna need more frequent rest. dont even think about the unthinkable, (injury.)
By Stuart
June 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
The reason Norton is playing is that he has some pop. Anderson and Blanco are contact hitters and BC is searching for some power. Even though KJ and B-Mac have good power for their positions this team is seriously devoid of power outside of Tex and Chipper, especially in the OF. You cannot play 2 singles hitters Anderson and Blanco together unless you pair them at the top of order and play small ball, which this club stinks at. Even if you leadoff with Blanco, hit Yunnel 2nd and KJ 7th and Anderson 8th, people are going to pitch around the power and then try and knock the bat out of the hands of Anderson and Blanco because they are not they are slappy guys. If you pair them at the top of the order like the Mets and Twins do then where does Yunnel hit in the lineup? Norton also gives you something for the right side of the plate. He is not the answer, but I understand what BC is going for.
By Roman Gal
June 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
I think it would be beneficial to bring Sammons up for interleague play. That way he can start when McCann DH’s. He wouldn’t be sitting quite as much as he normally would.
By uga-brave
June 4, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
DOB,
frenchy has been hitting a few more dingers lately, which the team really needs.
was just scrolling through the teams splits. this really jumps out.
francouer in day games .314 .ba .930 .ops.
in night games .214 .ba .613 .ops.
he has more homers and more doubles in day games, he has 60 more at bats at night.
he might need some of those charlie sheen eye glasses from “major league.”
By Jeff R
June 4, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Good to read that Charlie Morton is doing so well at Richmond. The A-Braves are going to need him.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
DOB To me Hank’s most impressive record is total bases.He had 6856,second place is Stan Musial with 6134 that’s a difference of 722 or 11.7 %.I wouldn’t say it’s unbreakable only Cy Young’s career wins by a pitcher and perhaps Ricky Henderson’s stolen base record’s are untouchable because the game has changed too much.The total bases shows just how productive Aaron was for so many years though.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 4, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this
For at least one game, Greg Norton made Bobby Cox look pretty smart. How about that Morton kid down in Richmond tonight, he threw eight innings of one hit ball with thirteen strike outs.
Here is one stat of his that just blows me away, 74 innings of work so far and Morton has yet to give up one single frigging HR. Never mind the 5-1 record and 1.70 ERA with seven quality starts.
The Braves are going to be hard pressed in their justification for keeping Morton in Richmond if this continues.
By BA
June 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
RichBrave, that steady diet of Morton posts was awesome. Like icing on the DOB cake. And DOB, you inspired me to keep my own Braves blog every night. It’s only made me further appreciate your work here, because it’s awfully hard to come up with interesting stuff to write about everyday. Keep up the good work. For what its worth, I don’t think we’ll see Schafer this year, until september call-ups. We have two rookie OF’s right now, I’d almost bet money they trade for another vet.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
ObiWan, while I think it’d be awesome, I also know it would never, ever, EVER happen. But I like it.
By Andrew Dice Clay
June 4, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this
Jack and Jill went up the hill, and I got fcKd out of seeing 45 Braves games this year thanks to Peachtree TV and Dish Network
By BravesRule
June 4, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this
Until Kotsay is ready, Anderson should be playing everyday. Blanco or Anderson 1st, the other 8th, KJ 6th or 7th. You don’t need power out of those positions.BobbysCox
I doubt that there is a manager out there who would play both of those light-hitting rookies in the same outfield on a contending team if they had any other choices at all. I know that I sure he11 wouldn’t.And your comments about Bruce are asinine. The guy has a great minor league career, unlike either Blanco or Anderson. Get real.
By Kentavo
June 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
I’m not a Norton hater, but c’mon we didn’t get the guy to be the regular left fielder. He’s a good bat off the bench for ph and spot start - and in usual fashion, Cox is misusing him. As for Woodward, he wouldn’t have been that bad if he’d been used correctly - he could actually bunt and backup every infield spot. But Donkey, er Cox, would use him in a rbi pinch hit situation and then he’d start him with his B-team lineup, inexplicably.
Good thing we didn’t have Daryle Ward very long, or he’d have become the regular 1st baseman.
By N8
June 4, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this
Andrew Dice Clay
While, a little over the top. I laughed out loud at your post.
About a month or two ago a buddy of mine and me while taking a road trip listened to some Dice Man, and were damn near in shock over how politically incorrect that man was.
He would NEVER get away with that today.
Of course we still laughed. But that doesn’t make it right.
FJR
“No big deal, and I mostly think you have insightful things to say, even if I disagree with a fair amount.”
That’s cool. I don’t expect everybody (or anybody) to agree with me.
On a side note (or two), wasn’t it nice to see Soriano look fairly dominant tonight? That’s a good sign, IMO.
I’m glad that Smoltz and Soriano are “back”. I think it will help the bullpen a whole bunch, even if Smoltz can only be used in small doses.
However, I’m not sure I’m a big fan of the 13 man pitching staff. Leaving 12 position players (11 once you count that Corky is one of the 12). Leaving 3 legitimate pinch-hitters on the bench, after the starting 8 are out of the mix.
That will come back to bite us at some point.
Also. As exciting (and they were exciting), as the last two victories have been. It’s hard to keep going “up and down” with this team at home and on the road.
I’m willing to bet that neither of these games would have ended so well on the road.
And oddly enough, just another case of beating a team that not only has a winning record, but one we are chasing in the standings. While gratifying, it’s just that much MORE frustrating when we can’t beat the losers, especially on the road.
I’m sticking with my prediction of a 6-1 home-stand, followed by a 3-7 road-trip. Leaving us at 2 games over .500, when all is said and done.
I hope they prove me wrong (about the road-trip, NOT the home-stand).
BravesRule
“I doubt that there is a manager out there who would play both of those light-hitting rookies in the same outfield on a contending team if they had any other choices at all.”
As much as I want the speed on the field, I have to agree with you.
That is, unless the ONLY other “choice” is Greg Norton. I suppose Infante is actually included in that mix too.
I smell a trade. Xavier Nady? Jason Bay?
Somebody to platoon with Jordan when he gets called up later in the year, (which I think he will - unless Kotsay proves to be healthy enough to continue to carry the load).
Let’s not forget, Diaz will be back at some point as well.
Some how or another, the LF spot (and possibly CF) is gonna be a revolving door of whoever has the “hot hand” or straight out platoons, before too long.
Just waiting to see who the pieces are.
By Lawrence
June 4, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this
Greg Norton is a switch hitting infielder playing outfield because the Braves have 2 guys on the DL.He is an experienced veteran player who knows how to play.Same deal with Omar Infante.These guys are not great players,but they know their job and how to play the game.Bobby Cox has confidence in them and thats why they are playing.Anderson will get his chance somehere down the line.He will be sent back down when either Kotsay or Diaz come off the DL.The Braves have used this type of veteran players for years and for the most part been sucessful with them.John Smoltz may or may not be a sucess as releiver/closer.We very well may be seeing the last few appearances of his career.Still even without him the staff will be good.Both JoJo and Campillo have been good along with Hudson.Jurrgens has been great with only a couple of bad games.And Glavine has pitched well with little to show for it.And the bullpen with the exception of a couple of guys who are now gone has done a wonderful job.Bennett,Boyer,Acosta and Ohman have been in a lot of games and have pitched great in their roles.Even Royce Ring has been good in the lefty vs lefty role.The loss of Peter Moylan was tough but,the team had some guys to step up and they did.Soriano coming back pitching well is a big plus.And hopefully Gonzalez will make it back soon also.If some of these guys get back and stay healthy this club has a chance to be very good.Kotsay and Diaz need to get back and the club has to start winning more road games.Fudamental’s such as sacrifice bunts and moving runners up need to improve along with some defensive lapse’s also.The pitchers need to hold runners close in the later inning’s and the fielder’s need to make the plays and throws.Bobby Cox knows how to win and has proven it for years.With patience and luck this could be a playoff team.
By Train Wreck Bystander
June 4, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
Yeah, it’s another week of Reds baseball here in TN - thanks a bunch Peachtree.
Cover Your Broadcast Territory Braves
By westy12
June 4, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this
DOB, any word on Smoltz’s surgery prospects if, hypothetically, he was willing to consider it? I’m wondering whether doctors are confident surgery would fix the problem, and if so, whether it would take a major re-construction/rehab to do it?
I know Smoltz doesn’t want to think about surgery now, but he’s still got such unbelievable stuff…seems if he could take this year to get the shoulder right, it could very well buy him 2 or 3 more good years.
By Nolie
June 4, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this
Could someone put in a “search” feature on the blog, so when DOB or someone responds to a previous post…if we want to read it, we type in the person’s name, and it automatically takes us to their comment? It would save a lot of scrolling back and forth.
just a thoughtSandyB
there is a search feature. click on EDIT at the top left and then click again on FIND ON THIS PAGE. works in Mozilla but I think it works in Explorer too. type in the word you are looking for and then hit NEXT for the next occurrence of that word
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
June 4, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this
bf54
I would have to disagree with you on the negative posters being knowledgeable about baseball. Just b/c someone has a bunch of stats doesn’t mean they have a “grasp” of the game. What gets me about the whole mess of crap on this blog is that it is never ending.
And yes, I say that if you have never played the game beyond little league than you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Sorry, that doesn’t mean you’re not a great fan or that your opinion is wrong, it just means that you are really just rehashing things that you have read or been told, not something you experienced.
And baseball is all about the “feel” for the game. Some players just know when and where to do things that may not be correct as far as the “book” goes but work well in that particular situation.
It cracks me up when I see these so called experts on here who have bookmarked baseballreference.com and think that it gives them all the knowledge they need to provide in depth analysis and second guessing. The more they talk and post the more they prove that they are ignorant in the real aspects of baseball.
I played with a guy once who had the most unorthodox style and approach but he was one of the best players I ever saw in the clutch. Once he stepped up to the plate with the winning run on second and the first pitch was a fastball that he swung at AFTER the ball was in the mitt. Two pitches later with a 1-2 count the pitcher rared back to smoke him with the heater again and he tatooed it to the moon. I asked how he could looked that bad on that first pitch and he said that when realized that it was by him he swung late anyway to see if he could get the pitcher overconfident with his heater. Some people just know how to play to win.
I wish that half the negative nellies on this blog could get a clue but it ain’t gonna happen so I just laugh and keep scrolling.
By santa3247
June 4, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Hi, I’m Seong-Ho,Yoon living in jinhae city southkorea.
About starter, Yunel Escobar’s 0-3 hitting have problem, because batter have to try to get down starter. But, about reliever the number of pitched ball you have to neglect.
Yunel Escobar have to be prized for team’s win. ^*^
May the force of Messiah be with you
P.S: Hey! Brent Lilibridge DOWN THE FARM TO AA.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this
caveman, I agree that there are certain things that you really can’t understand about baseball unless you’ve been in a clubhouse of SOME sort. But, I’m sure you’ve also played with guys who were excellent players but dumb as rocks about the game itself. I’ve also known some folks who weren’t much as players and still became excellent students of the game. It’s kinda like the game itself, you can’t always go by the book, LOL.
As for the quality of the baseball discussion in this forum, well, I don’t think it is supposed to rival the daily GM meetings in Wren’s office, is it? :-) That wouldn’t leave much room for music, BBQ, and banana pudding, and we’d be the lesser for it.
By BT
June 4, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this
Chris Dimino from 790 just said that because of Smoltz’s soreness, the lack of comment from Smoltz yesterday, etc. that Smoltz is through for at least the year if not for his career!
By richbrave
June 4, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this
CAPT.CAVEMAN:
If you’re not in the dug-out aren’t you just guessing anyway.?? Something I’ve said here many times. “I just know what I see.” Like MORTON’s two foot 12-6 curve. THAT was a curve. Tell you what. The next time I talk with GUY HANSON I’ll ask why and get back to you.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this
And yes, I say that if you have never played the game beyond little league than you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Sorry, that doesn’t mean you’re not a great fan or that your opinion is wrong, it just means that you are really just rehashing things that you have read or been told, not something you experienced.
So at what level must a person go to really know what he is talking about? You say beyond Little League, but how far?
And I suppose some GM’s, including some recent World Series winning ones, don’t know what they are talking about because they didn’t play pro baseball.
And I guess some front office people whom many GM’s rely on for information don’t know what they are talking about because I know some of those people didn’t play past Little League if at all.
Capt Caveman (the original Dawg), with all due respect, that post was pretty ridiculous. It’s like saying and English professor can’t teach Shakespeare because he never met him.
By Will
June 4, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
I am starting to become very worried about Smoltzie getting back to being remotely healthy….
By nolie
June 4, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Why does Baddenhop hop like a freakin rabbit after every pitch. Very annoying.Austin
His name was originally just Baden until he started pitching
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
On the contrary, you don’t know what you’re getting with Anderson other than an astounding 25 games in the major leagues. His upside is greater than Norton’s, but you’ll never know for sure unless you play him. Even if he were to match Norton’s .250, his defense is a plus as well as his speed on the basepaths. It’s a no brainer.
Bobby’s, I would argue you do know what you’re getting with Anderson: You are getting sub par plate discipline and an inability to hit the ball hard; pretty much a lot of outs. You know this from what he’s done in the minors.
I realize players can stray from their minor league performance but that doesn’t mean players typically stray dramatically from their minor league performance.
And it’s not as simple as “He was a .300 hitter in the minors so he’ll be a .280 hitter in the majors.” No. Look at how much power a guy has in the minors. Look at his BB rate, his K rate. I don’t think strikeouts are a huge deal for hitters but strikeout total along with other things can tell you a lot about a hitter’s abilities. If a guy can’t make contact with minor league pitching, also has no power/no ability to hit the ball hard and also doesn’t draw walks; that’s not a good sign. It’s not about stats, it’s about what’s behind the stats. It’s about what the stats tell us about a player’s abilities.
You can look up what a player hits versus left-handers in day games in pitcher’s parks. But what’s important to me are the numbers that tell me about a player’s abilities, contrary to what many of you think about me.
…okay, off the soap box.
By GT
June 4, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
Did anyone else notice the trainer with the pill vial on tv when he was talking to Chipper in the dugout in the late innings. Looks like Chipper had some pain last night. I know he didn’t want anyone to know Chipper was in pain, but he looked like he was caught in the act when he realized the camera was on him.
By richbrave
June 4, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
Thanks for the 11:26 p.m. post. That’s what Capt. Caveman’s talking about. Well, close anyway. Great stuff. Wish I lived in Gwinnett and had your access. Really awesome to get the feel for Wren’s response to SCHAFER’s game and how he instigated the MORTON conversation. Now that’s a blogmeister. Kudos DAVID.
A final comment on last night’s masterful performance by CHARLES MORTON. What I liked most was the fact that he had 5 SO’s in the first four innings, and 8 in the last four innings. And the eighth was phenom-i-nal. He must have been told it was his last inning (but I’m just guessing Capt.C, I wasn’t there) because he let it all hang out. Show the brass what you can do late kind of thing. Whew.
By richbrave
June 4, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
SHAUN:
Agree, agree, agree. You gotta’ sense the players heart AND the stats. ANDERSON is a singles guy, and unless he improves dramatically, he’s gonna’ stay that way. But he’s up and hopefully, he’s being taught and is soaking in the info. Now if his body can translate that into his swing, he may improve dramatically.
By richbrave
June 4, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
BA:
Last night, thanks for the boost. My man.
By Deep Throat
June 4, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
Corky Miller: .069/.182/.069
Tim Hudson: .087/.125/.130
Tom Glavine: .111/.158/.111
Jair Jurrjens: .130/.200/.217
Corky Miller: epic fail guy
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
In my opinion, here are your LF TRADE options..NADY, BAY, DUNN, GILES, THAMES
I think those may be the most obvious BUT what about GUILLEN from KC, or Delmon Young or Curtis Granderson?
Those may be further out but I think those first 5 will be available it is just a matter of what you’d have to give up
what do you guys think?
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
richbrave, yeah. It’s not so much about him being a singles guy. It’s about him being a singles guy and not having all that much discipline. He’s not likely to get on-base enough to be an everyday player. He’ll probably be a solid fourth outfield/pinch-runner. He’ll probably be a Coco Crisp type with more speed and a little less offensive ability and probably not quite as great a glove.
By Dagmar Midslap
June 4, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Chris Dimino stated his opinion today on the radio that Smoltz will not pitch again this year. Is this responsible journalism? Is there anything that would lead you to believe it to be true?
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
Coach Smith, Delmon Young is a 22-year-old, highly-regarded player who destroyed minor league pitching and is hanging in there in the majors. No way the Twins would trade him for anything less than someone like McCann or Jurrjens or Francoeur or Kelly Johnson and possibly another piece.
Granderson is similar. The Tigers aren’t giving him up easily.
And do we really want Jose Guillen in a Braves’ uniform? He’ll make $12M a year until 2010. He’s 32 with below average on-base ability and his power is not all that amazing for a power-hitting corner outfielder. One of the worst contracts in baseball.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
as the weather heats up b’macc is gonna need more frequent rest. dont even think about the unthinkable, (injury.) Uga-Brave
Yes, please! Let’s not think that…Eesh…Rest because of the weather is fine, but injury…No no no! We do NOT want to think about that!! (Hey, that guy last night fouled a pitch off Brian’s face so hard, it broke his mask.)
Eric the Elder—
I typed my response with a smile : ) , too. I’m relaxed. I know he still has more doubles than anyone else on the team.
; )
BTW—Geovany Soto homered last night! He’s got 10 now, too! And he has 39 RBI! (Gasp!)
Another note: McCann needs two more doubles to give him 100 for his career. Could happen this afternoon, ya know? Maybe he cann hit that milestone the same day Chipper hits his.
By JS29
June 4, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Smoltz is out for the season!
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Coach Smith
Nady, Giles and Thames are probably the most likely to happen. Although I am not sure the Braves feel a need to trade for a Left field bat. They need Frenchy to pick things up and Tex to hit left handed pitching.
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Shaun
That is why I said those guys are a little more “out there” possiblities
By Random
June 4, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
*eric the elder *: “Don’t let Random get you all worked up.”
Don’t worry yourself about that — she knows me better than do you.
*”I typed it with a smile. It was a throw away line. Relax. Sheesh.”
As did I. Ditto. Double-sheesh.
GT: “Did anyone else notice the trainer with the pill vial on tv when he was talking to Chipper in the dugout in the late innings. Looks like Chipper had some pain last night. I know he didn’t want anyone to know Chipper was in pain, but he looked like he was caught in the act when he realized the camera was on him.”
Yeah, my Mom pointed thatout, that Chipper seemed to be taking some pill(s).
My speculation was that it was a salt tablet, to restore some electrolytes.
But we both wondered why he didn’t just slam some Gatorade, if that was indeed the problem.
KYFan: “Anyone thought that it may be worth the experiment and the Braves would give up nothing to give Bonds a shot?”
How right you are — the Braves would be giving up nothing but, oh, their integrity, self-respect and collective soul.
But who needs that baggage?
By flange1
June 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
Nice win yesterday!
Good to see Norton getting a hit in a clutch situation.
I too see a trade on the horizon for a power hitting LF.
I think Tex is gone after this year, and the Braves will look for a power hitter to replaced him. The positions that are open are LF and 1B. Don’t see too many 1B FA’s on the market, same with OF. It would not be too much of a stretch to see a trade made for a LF that could help the team this year and next year.
Usual folks to trade, guys who are blocked by young starters or don’t seem to fit in: Chuck James, B. Jones, B. Lillibridge, C. Sammons, either Anderson or Blanco, Prado, maybe Diaz, possibly a bullpen arm and or a pitching prospect.
The usual suspects as guys we might look to add, but add M Holliday and J Hermedia to list. Just a hunch…
Hope Smoltz is feeling better today. Would love to see him pitch some more this year.
Go Glavine!
And by the way, have any of you folks been checking in on the Phillies? They are kicking butt and taking names right now.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Smoltz done eh? That is a huge blow. Mike Gonzales really needs to step up now, and Soriano needs to revert to form. Still a nasty pen, but too bad. Not sure how this affects us yet, as the bigger blow was him moving to the pen.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
It’s like saying and English professor can’t teach Shakespeare because he never met him.
Not at all. It’s like saying an English professor can’t teach Shakespeare if he never read him.
As far as good baseball minds who never played the game go, where would you think they got the input to assimilate that gave them a good baseball mind? I’m guessing not from Stats Inc.
Shaun, it’s not either/or, just that playing the game provides different perspectives, different contexts, different insights. That’s all.
By jeff
June 4, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
If Anderson is as bad as some make out, why did Wren trade for him? Just to come off bench? Thought thats why they got Norton who I like but not in LF. No one gave Blanco a chance to make team. Now he’s doing better than every one expected. I wish they would trade for Bay or Nady. Hope Kotsay gets better but thats a big ???. Smoltz is still ??? . What ever. N8 love to read your blogs.
By Drummerdad
June 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Smoltz, Wren and Bobby at 11:30 press conference today. Is this retirement or done for the year?
By Scott
June 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Looks like no more Smoltz this year.
[http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080604&contentid=2837506&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl]
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
790 is saying press conference at 11:30 announcing Smoltz is having season ending surgery.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Just filed this story:
By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com
John Smoltz will have season-ending shoulder surgery that could also put the career of the 41-year-old Braves pitcher in doubt.
The Braves have called a media conference at 11:30 a.m. at Turner Field to be attended by Smoltz, general manager Frank Wren and manager Bobby Cox. A Braves official confirmed surgery for Smoltz will be announced at the media conference.
Smoltz, the only pitcher in history with at least 200 wins and 150 saves, notched his 3,000th career strikeout earlier this season. After spending nearly five weeks on the disabled list with inflammation of the rotator cuff and biceps tendon in his throwing shoulder, he returned from the DL Monday night and blew a save against Florida in his first relief appearance in 44 months.
Smoltz had moved back to the bullpen from his preferred starting role as a concession to persistent pain in his throwing shoulder. He had hoped he could get through the season by pitching in one-inning stints and by altering his pitching delivery and throwing sidearm.
He was charged with two runs, three hits and a blown save in the ninth inning Monday against Florida, but the Braves came back and won 7-5 on Yunel Escobar’s walk-off homer in the 10th.
Smoltz converted 154 saves in 3-1/2 seasons as a closer through 2004 including a National League-record 55 saves in 2002.
He went 47-26 as a starter since the beginning of the 2005 season, including 3-2 with a 2.00 ERA in five starts this season before shoulder pain forced him to the DL for the second time since March.
Smoltz has had four right-elbow surgeries and had said in recent years that he wouldn’t endure another arm surgery and long rehabilitation to prolong his career. But on Monday he backed away from those statements and indicated he would consider surgery and all other options.
The 1996 Cy Young Award winner has a 210-147 career record with 154 saves and 3,011 strikeouts in 3,395 innings. Smoltz is also the winningest postseason pitcher in history (15-4) and owns the record for postseason strikeouts (194).
The likely future Hall of Famer is eligible for free agency after the 2008 season.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Schafer goes 1-5, but has a crucial hit in the 8th to tie the game and send it to extras. He was also picked off.
Gonzo 1 IP, 1 SO, 2 hits (again). He definitely looks like he needs some more time out there, even though he isn’t giving up any runs. 2 hits a game is a bit scary.
By Random
June 4, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
DOB scooped by Mark Bowman?!? It’s the end of times, fo’ sho’.
Smoltz may be facing shoulder surgery; Braves expected to discuss veteran’s future at news conference
By flange1
June 4, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Hi All,
Link to a Bowman story on Smoltz.
This does not look good…
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080604&contentid=2837506&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
By NY Jay
June 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
I’m a met fan and I have to tell you I don’t want Smoltz gone for the year. Any word on what the press conference is about? Hopefully Smoltz can get back to full health so NL East baseball can be fun for everyone this summer.
By Lee
June 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
what’s up with this press conference???
oh crap
By Dan in NC
June 4, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
ESPN just reported an 11:30 press conference scheduled for Atlanta…I think we know what this is all about.
By Larvell Blanks
June 4, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Smoltz press conference at 11:30, with Cox and Wren. Out for the season, or out for good?
By Drummerdad
June 4, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
DOB, Are you willing to venture an opinion about what Smoltz is going to do?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
I’m a met fan and I have to tell you I don’t want Smoltz gone for the year. Any word on what the press conference is about? Hopefully Smoltz can get back to full health so NL East baseball can be fun for everyone this summer.
Oh, don’t worry NYJay. NL East baseball will still be fun for the Braves this year. We are 7-2 against the Mutts and will continue to kick the crap out of them for the rest of the summer.
By 22oz
June 4, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Well, this is most likely the end of the career of one of the greatest Braves ever. I’m am now counting my lucky stars that i decided to go to the 3,000th strikeout game, as that was the last time Smoltzy was dominant on the field. We’ll miss ya John! Can’t wait to see that #29 up there with the 3,21,41,44,35, and 42!
By taylor s
June 4, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
This is a sad day for all of us. This could be the end of an era here in Atlanta. As the career of one dominant power pitcher looks like its coming to an end its time for another one to start… bring up Charlie Morton. We need a boost and this kid could give it to us.
Thank you John Smoltz for all you have done for this franchise and this town.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
ncscoots, you’re exactly right. I was responding to Capt Caveman (the original Dawg) who said, “I say that if you have never played the game beyond little league than you don’t really know what you’re talking about.”
By Josh from Columbus
June 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Sure hate to see Smoltz go out like this. I know he’s not neccesarily done for his career but even done for the season is harsh. In other news, finally some good news on Hampton!
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Tough news about Smoltz. I really wish him all the best. I understand he still has a hunger for the game, but shoulder surgery at his age may keep him out of the game for 18 months. So is he really willing to come back as a 43 year old in 2010? I guess he will have a lot of time to think about it. Right now, I am assuming he is done for the season.
By Deep Throat
June 4, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Well this is horrible news.
Mike Gonzalez threw a scoreless inning last night and had thrown four scoreless innings for AA Mississippi. I hope he’ll be ready soon.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Drummerdad, I think he’ll say he’s going to have surgery and try to come back from it. He certainly won’t announce he’s retiring, not today, not until surgery and they go in and see what’s damaged and how severe. If he can come back from it, I’d bet he will.
By Lee
June 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure the press conference is to announce that Smoltz will be adding a mechanical arm to his body.
Just imagine the possibilities.
By Big Easy
June 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
This stinks. Love Smoltz.
I gotta say, if he had saved that game Monday night, I would expect this to be an announcement for surgery and retirement. But, knowing Smoltz, I doubt he wants to go out like that, so I see him at least trying to come back after surgery…I guess we will see.
Sad, sad day for Braves fans, though…
~E~
By j-school dropout
June 4, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
This is truly sad. John Smoltz is the heart of the Braves and a very determined competitor. As someone who has had this surgery, I know what he is about to go through. It is no picnic. It hurts constantly, and the rehab is unbelievably taxing. It’s amazing how winded you can get lifting a three-pound weight after RC/Bicep Tendon surgery. Godspeed John. And this is one Braves fan who will understand if you decide to hang them up. Thanks for all of the great performances.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
As did I. Ditto. Double-sheesh.
I typed mine with a smile, too…Triple-Sheesh!
By brent a.
June 4, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Well, this makes the whole “pict-o-word” debacle look even more ridiculous.
When Smoltz came in Monday night, I told my wife, as exciting as this is, I also don’t want to miss any of this, because you never know when Smoltz might be throwing his last pitch.
Glad I made it out to see #3,000.
By StingerSplash
June 4, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Didn’t Smoltz say he wasn’t going to go under the knife again and come back to play? I’d hate to think we’ve seen the last of 29. This is devastating for him and for the team.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
What, no one wants to talk about whether it’s a good idea to swing on 3-0?
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Bold predictions for July 31st
1) Jordan Schafer will be starting, either in center or left field
2) Jorge Campillo and Jeff Bennett will be our long relievers
3) Our starting rotation will be: JJJ, Hudson, Glavine, Reyes, and Morton, with Hampton thrown into the mix, and Chuck lingering in Richmond
4) No major trades will be made
5) Soriano and Gonzo will be closer by comittee, and Acosta will be the 7th-8th inning guy.
By Not Surprised
June 4, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Braveheart -
A Mets fan says something positive about Smoltz, and you have to be a complete d* about it. Show some class.
By NY Jay
June 4, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART-
I like that kind of fire. However the Braves could go 14-4 against the “Mutts” and still be a .500 team.
The problem with the Braves vs. Mets rivalry is that no one cares about it anymore. Which is why Smoltz going down hurts the division.
No Smoltz vs. Santana or Pedro means that a Met v. Braves series lacks bite and really doesn’t get national attention.
I miss the days when it meant something to hate the Braves. I kinda want Chipper to hit his 400th homer against the Mets. It just makes sense and he would get cheered at Shea if he did. Of course that would mean a minor slump but who hits .400 anyway?
Good luck to Smoltz.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
June 4, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Guess Smoltz will be headed over to Birmingham around noon so Andrews can get to cuttin’ on that bum wing. Hope he can return with his previous effectiveness. Would hate to see him have this surgery, attempt a comeback, and fail. Terrible way for a legend to go out.
By Lee in S. GA
June 4, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Must say I am not exactly shocked by Smoltz’s shoulder requiring surgery. One could just tell from the beginning this season trouble may be brewing. Smoltz did not throw much in spring training games, good quality starts at the beginning of the season but not able to go deep into the game and the latest reliever stunt certainly did not look like his old self. am so glad he got his 3000 strikeouts this season because you never know, he may have thrown his last major league pitch.
By Jersey Gil
June 4, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
This is Bad news for Ours Bravos, Hope he is coming back next year. This problaly give a pump up the rest of the Braves Player to WIN this season, we going to do it for you Smoltzy…….Good luck to you…
By Lee
June 4, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
its a mechanical arm addition.
im serious, i saw him use test it out in Mississippi.
i found this image of it in a search:
Link:Smoltz mechanical arm addition to be announced at 11:30 press conference
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
StingerSplash, it is devastating for him, but not as much so for the team. The bigger blow by far was learning he couldn’t start. The truth is, once Gonzo comes back, we are pretty darn strong in the pen. As far as the playoffs go, though, we really need another “Ace” to step up in the event of a 5 game series against a team like the Dbacks, who will be able to throw a Webb/Haren combo, or say the Mets, with Santana/Pedro, etc. I don’t know if JJJ is that guy. Maybe Glav, if he is rested. But it would have been nice to start with Smoltz/Hudson. This sucks, but it isn’t the end of the world by any means.
By Lew
June 4, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
THis sucks-but It ain’t all that surprising. You really had to see this coming. I wish Smoltzie the best-whether or not he comes back. I’m betting it’s over.
By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy
June 4, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
So I’m guessing the Braves will be going short-handed into today’s game, right? Or will an “emergency” flight be made?
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
June 4, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
If Smoltz did retire today, wouldn’t his remaining salary come off the books? He could always come back after the surgery and sign a new contract or would MLB frown upon that?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
The problem with the Braves vs. Mets rivalry is that no one cares about it anymore.
NYJay Was there ever really a rivalry? Wile E. Coyote may have believed he had a rivalry with the Roadrunner but the Roadrunner never thought he had a rivalry with Wile E. Coyote.
By MGL
June 4, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
If John retires, I guess he gives up almost $9M in salary.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
this is definetly a sad day for braves nation. id like to see smoltz pitch again but will he really want to? i dont see why he would. hes done it all.
By Larvell Blanks
June 4, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Lee — I think Smoltz got some bad advice about the type of mechanical arm he’s getting. This is what he should have grafted onto his shoulder.
By David
June 4, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Ouch….like a punch to the gut. Smoltz has become one of my favorite players and I hate the thought of him not pitching again (though I know it’s still a bit too early to know if whether or not that will be the case). I’ll say it again - he seems tailor-made to be a baseball coach, and it sure would take some of the sting out of losing him if he ended up somewhere in the Braves organization when he does finally hang up the cleats.
By twonateshow.com
June 4, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
I agree with DOB. Assuming they don’t find anything worse than they’re expecting, I’m going not betting against him coming back. As DOB stated well the other day, Smoltzie is a “different cat.” If there’s anyone who can come back from it, it’s him. But it’s going to be very strange to not be able to see the bearded icon on the mound for the rest of the year. Wish you a speedy recovery Smoltzie, and look forward to seeing you back next year.
By brent a.
June 4, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Apparently, Greg Norton also surprised that he is starting.
from Braves.com
By Lee in S. GA
June 4, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
The bullpen still should be in good shape. The return of Gonzo and Soriano will be like a mid-season trade all by itself. Acosta is the real deal also. Maybe another starter and LF’er will be acquired. I could see some sort of trade made around the all-star break. The Braves usually have a habit of doing something to improve the team. I don’t see why this year would be any different.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
this guy hendrickson were facing today has a pretty good record. he has pitched well over all but hes got about a 15.00 ERA in his last two games. hopefully the braves can take advantage of this a little bit.
im gonna bet infante gets the start at 2nd and bats 2nd in this one…im usre bobby will sub out one of his lefty regulars.
he doesnt strike out a bunch of guys, but he will walk guys every now and then, so weve got to be patient…chances are hes gonna give us something to hit, and make his defense catch it.
for smoltz!!
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
I still remember the 1989 season, his first All Star season. He was so good but you almost didn’t want to believe that a Brave could be that good. You thought that season was just a mirage in the desert that would fade away and continue to leave you thirsty. Then 1991 happened and the rest was history. You felt so silly that you ever doubted Smoltz that you almost made yourself forget that you once doubted him. But it was good that you doubted him because no one doubted Smoltz more than he did himself. He used your doubts and his own, both real and imagined, to drive him to the Hall of Fame
By Glass Half Full
June 4, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Some of Smoltz’s 2008 salary should be covered by insurance I think
By Random
June 4, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
McFann —
Mornin’ — 8-)
Did you ever figure out that length and height of happiness quote?
By FJR
June 4, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
who would have thought that the two worst divisions in baseball would be the AL Central and the NL West?
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
It’s certainly an emotionally troubling loss, at the very least. Boyer, Acosta, Gonzo, and Soriano at the end, along with Ohman and Bennett, well, that still makes for a pretty righteous bullpen. But even the possibility of Smoltz contributing this year is gone, and that has to be psyche-damaging, at least a little. We kid here a lot about “veteran presence”, but Smoltz had that.
The larger question of his absence from the rotation remains: how to maximize the effectiveness of Jurrjens and Reyes and still limit their innings, and how to get more-than-expected from Glavine. Epinephrine thinks no major trades, and I know the Braves don’t want to have a gun at their head, but can they stand to carry 13 pitchers all year?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
A Mets fan says something positive about Smoltz, and you have to be a complete d about it. Show some class.*
Not Surprised, what is not surprising is your lack of reading comprehension ability.
Did you really read NY Jay’s posts? NY Jay wrote an obituary on Smoltz and delivered a eulogy for the 2008 Braves in his posts.
Go back and read them. Maybe your fifth grade level reading comprehension skills will enable you to understand what he was really saying on the second, third, fourth or fifth attempt. Shouldn’t you be in summer school anyway after flunking the CRCT test?
By Greg in TN
June 4, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Morning gang,
A few quick thoughts from the last week or so of action as we wait for the press conference on Smoltz.
As disappointing as the last road trip was, it’s good to be home and good to take the first two from the Fins. Dr. Jeckyl is clearly in control right now, however we have to find a way to put shackels on Mr. Hyde before the next bus trip to the airport.
Dan Uggla with a bat is the scariest thing to think about in the NL East right now denizens.
Personally, there are very few situations where I would be comfortable sending someone to the plate to bunt a runner from first (I can certainly see that from someone with an established track record of getting a solid bunt down or from the pitcher’s spot, but to me in the modern game, there’s little to be gained by having others in the lineup do it). I haven’t read if the bunt sign was put on for Yunel on Monday’s homer at bat, then taken off, but if you get a 3-0 count with the potential winning run on first, you’re not going to get a better, fatter, juicier pitch to swing at, so glad Yunel did and glad we got the result we did. I’d much rather see him milk the count more than what he showed most recently, especially in Milwaukee.
By Lew
June 4, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
NYJay-Glad you see what Smoltz’s presence means to baseball and I agree with you.
However……I have to agree with Braveheart to some extent. Isn’t a rivalry a rivalry only when both teams are good? Problem is that the Mets were only good for 1 1/2 years. That streak is as over as Smoltz’s (and Pedro’s) careers.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Random—
…No……
By MMP
June 4, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
As a long time Braves fan (and Smoltz fan), I am saddened by today’s news. I don’t know that he needs to come back but would hate to see him end his career like this. Seems unfair that a good guy has to leave (if he does end it) like this, while a cheat like Clemens gets to ride out in a wave of glory. Anyway, I hope he tries one more time. If not, then next stop, Cooperstown. Ps Soriano needs to visit a shrink so he can start believing he can shut the door; he looks scared sometimes on the mound. Not a good vibe for closer or his team.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Nscoots, I know we have shot down the idea of a six man rotation, but if Morton gets called up, a good way to keep IP down is to mix those 5 with occassional Hampton starts once he (if he) ever gets healthy. Same with James. We should be able to keep IP down with those two, and having two guys like Campillo and Bennett in long relief.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
Epinephrine, that’s still 13 pitchers, even if you could work he rotation that way (which I doubt).
By eric the elder
June 4, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I wondered where our Dutch blogger went.
*UTRECHT, Netherlands — Utrecht police say a 21-year-old Dutch man is recovering after a “mooning” that went horribly wrong.
A police statement says the man and two others had run down a street in Utrecht with their pants pulled down in the back “for a joke.”
It says that at one point the 21-year-old “pushed his behind against the window of a restaurant” that broke and resulted in “deep wounds to his derriere.”*
By flange1
June 4, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
EPinephrine,
I agree with your last 2 posts. I have been hankering for a trade (you know the instant gratification thing?) but the Braves possibly have the pieces in house to solve their problems. Wish one of the OF in the minors was RH though.
I also agree with spot starts from Hampton and Chuck to help diminish the IP for some of the other guys.
Cox also needs to spread the work in the pen so that everyone isn’t burned out in late August.
The loss of Smoltz is devastating to the team psyche, but the team can rebound. Maybe a let’s win it for Smoltz could actually be a benefit to the team.
Either way, GODD LUCK IN BIRMINGHAM JOHN SMOLTZ!
By Maturin
June 4, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
If there was ever a time for a bowl of sad, its now. :.( Been watching Smoltz dominate since I was age 5, and now it feels like an era has come to an end. Farewell Smoltz, I’ll watch if you’re ever televised golfing!
By NY Jay
June 4, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART-
The Mets are the doormats of the Braves. The Braves are America’s team, the team of the ‘90’s, and the standard of excellence that all MLB teams strive to attain.
The Mets would be fortunate to have 1/3 of the prestige and majesty that the Brave Organisation carries.
The Braves were a dynasty that no one has seen since the Yankees of the ‘20’s. The Braves are baseball royalty and has captivated this country since the ‘70’s.
Now that I have appeased the delusional, yet elitist Brave fan core, let me say again…
Good luck to John Smoltz…
LEW-
I completely agree. When the Mets were good then the Braves weren’t and the majority of the Time the Braves were leaps and bounds better than the Mets.
But if beating the Mets meant nothing to Brave fans then where did “mutts” and “I hate the Mutts” come from?
Was it just because they are a NY team? I don’t get how you guys downplay the Mets yet with the same breath, hate them with a passion when they posed no threat to the Braves during their run of division titles.
There was a time that, regardless of their records, a Mets vs. Brave series was THE most heated games in the National League. It just isn’t that way anymore and both teams at this point are even. So you would think it would be more heated.
Smoltz going down only signals to me an end of an era and how that “rivalry”(or not) is gone when Smoltz and Chipper go.
But I guess I’m wrong and Brave fans really dig the Mets or “mutts”?
By nate
June 4, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
I’m really sad to see Smoltz go down. He’s great guy, and the team will miss him. But lets be honest, The Braves already have two gimpy closers. What the team needs is an ace pitcher. A guy who can eat 200 innings and win 15-20 games. A guy who can win playoff games against tough teams. Anybody who thinks the Braves can ride Reyes, Campillo, James, Hampton, and Morton to post season success needs to have their head examined. Hudson, Glavine, and JJJ make a nice 2,3,4 combo. But to win in the playoffs the Braves need Smoltz to start games. Of course if this team doesn’t start hitting, Cy Young himself couldn’t rescue this team.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Ah, nscoots, isn’t that assuming Hampton is off the DL the entire time? But seriously, I know its 13 which is absurd, but the thing is, keeping IP down for Glavine, JJJ, and even Reyes is crucially important for this team. So I don’t know how to swing that (and the simple answer may be, Morton stays in the minors, though I’d really like to see him given how absurdly well he is pitching right now), but its an important consideration.
By brent a.
June 4, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Big Props to Smoltz for citing Dale Murphy as a great influence in his career.
I liked his attitude in the entire presser.
By bravesfan
June 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Here are today’s lineups:
Marlins: SS Hanley Ramirez, RF Jeremy Hermida, 3B Wes Helms, 1B Mike Jacobs, LF Luis Gonzalez, CF Cody Ross, C Mike Rabelo, 2B Alfredo Amezaga, P Mark Hendrickson.
Braves: SS Yunel Escobar, 2B Kelly Johnson, RF Jeff Francoeur, 1B Mark Teixeira, LF Greg Norton, C Brian McCann, 3B Omar Infante, CF Josh Anderson, P Tom Glavine.
By Shamus Thacker
June 4, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
If Smoltz can’t make it back, it’ll be for one reason only, an irreparably damaged arm. If this were Hammy, there’d be NO WAY!!! Smoltzie is tough as a Waffle House steak; I’ll just bet we’ll be seeing him again…
By tkg
June 4, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
God bless John Smoltz. He is the ultimate competitor. I hope he’s back in 09 stronger and more dominate than ever. If not, I can only thank him for being my absolute favorite baseball player of all time and an even better human being. Been watching the guy since I was a young teenager and man has it been a blast.
By TommyP
June 4, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Chris Dimino just proves again to be the premier sportsvoice in this town. He’s incredible.
By Austin
June 4, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
I think Cox goes to bed and dreams at night about putting a lineup together that will give me a heart attack at 16. Come on Bobby.
By Joe
June 4, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
the Braves need to get Nady and Snell. They would win it all with them! If not them then they should get Adam Dunn.
By Rahul
June 4, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Why the hell is Norton hitting in front of Mac? Jesus
By DAP
June 4, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
uh oh…whats up with chipper?
By Lee in S. GA
June 4, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
the Braves need to get Nady and Snell. They would win it all with them
Joe
I think both of these players would be good pickups for the Braves and take them to the playoffs also. The only problem is what would it take to acquire them.
By i cant take it anymore
June 4, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
i am not ready for smoltz to be through. it can’t happen.
By 22oz
June 4, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Does anyone else find it ironic that Tim Meadows is at a Braves game promoting a show on TBS? Mighty ballsy on TBS’s part.
By cabravesfan
June 4, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
DAP looked like Chipper tweaked his back on the last at bat last night…kinda cringed a bit
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
CHIPPER just getting a scheduled day off, Bobby told him couple nights ago he was going to rest him today.
Chipper was in a very good — I refuse to say “chipper” — mood today. Pleased to be getting a day off for no health-related issues.
“I’m sure I’ll get in there at some point,” he said, meaning to pinch-hit late in the game.
By eric the elder
June 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Tex book-ended by Francoeur and Norton. Infante, Anderson, Glavine the bottom three.
Might not be our finest hour.
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
John Smoltz, Thank you for all your effort. For all the memories. For the wins, the saves, the strike outs, the stuburn will to push on, the competitive spirit and the post season dominance. Thank you for the “home boy upstairs” comment. Thanks for all of it. I wish you the best in your surgery and recovery and hope to see you on the mound in a Braves uniform in any capacity in the future.
GO BRAVES!!
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
DAP: DGANG maybe?
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
June 4, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
I’m hoping Chipper is out of the lineup because its a day game after a night game. I hope!
I think Smoltz not returning definitely increases the probability the Braves go after a pitcher and an outfielder. I think the Braves need to really began serious discussions with the Angels about Reggie Wilits or Juan Rivera and possibly Dustin Mosely.
By please
June 4, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
yes I don’t like it I like YE but the braves swinging on 3-0 pitch no-way he lucky it wasn’t a fly out then what, you take the next pitch just because it’s hitable don’t mean you going to get a hit, he’s lucky go braves.
By Steve McP
June 4, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Smoltz, Glavine and Mad Dog all going into the HOF together - that will be a hot ticket
By OverlorDDDay
June 4, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
PHILLIES, METS, BRAVES. SOME THOUGHTS
Have anyone noticed how good is the phillies bullpen?. They have 5 guys that have pitched between 20 and 35 innings. Their ERA are 0.72, 1.31, 1.80, 2.57 and 3.60.
And that does not includes Tom Gordon, who is not a great pitcher, but is clearly a good veteran with good speed.
But then there is their SP, which is horrible. Hamels is their best with a 3.73 ERA. Then they have 2 pitcher with 4.50+ ERA and the other 2 are above 5.00.
We all know they can score tons of runs, specially if they play at home. But the big question is CAN THEIR BULLPEN HOLD???
Then we have Pedro Martinez….. he might become a factor since he had a very good game last night (6IP, 3ER).
Smoltz loss is big, but nothing this team cant overcome, specially if Soriano holds and Gonzo comes back well. Now Hamptons return becomes much more important. I know most of you think he will never pitch, but even if he gets back in july, it could be such a hugeeeeeeee add to the staff, stay tuned.
IM INTERESTED ON READING SOME OPINIONS ABOUT THIS POINTS THANKS
By 22oz
June 4, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Isn’t there a rule that teams must field a competitive lineup? Or is that just for Spring training?
By StingerSplash
June 4, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine,
Here’s my concern — without Smoltz in the rotation, you’re relying an obviously very talented guy (Jurrjens) who hasn’t thrown more than 162 innings in a season before, a wild card (Campillo) and a kid who is still trying to figure it all out, but at the major league level (Reyes). With Smoltz in the pen with Soriano and Gonzalez, you could turn the Braves into the 1990 Reds, where if you trailed after six, you were done. If the Braves brass didn’t have that kind of scenario in mind when Smoltz was going to go back to the bullpen…. I think the bullpen will be fine without Smoltz. The starters may be able to pick up the slack. But for the pitching staff collectively, I have very strong worries.
By GeorgetownKid
June 4, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Thank you for everything John Smoltz. But I am holding out hope that you give us a few more memories!
Smolzie is a pretty tough dude. If ever there was a 41 year old who could come back from this, it would be John Smoltz.
By David
June 4, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Smoltz sure could come back - though there is no way to know yet, betting against a guy who has defied the odds his entire career seems pretty stupid to me. An old/injured Smoltz is better than a young/healthy Chuck James any day…..
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Smoltz is greater than tomatoes! What better example of manhood than quirky displays of gravity inducing remission. O Brave one! O Brave team. Suspended like follies from over fields. When reading this blog I shudder and witness all that is to come. Is my English perfect? Perhaps not but then again is Francoeur? Perhaps rather than “Frency” he shall be called “Freedom”. Yes, batting fifth and hitting .250 is “Freedom”. Let ‘er rip. All day and all through the night. In sickness or in health, in poverty or wealth. Let “Freedom” ring. But back to Smoltz. We have your back, or backside as the case may be. But who can stand here aloof and shining while waiting for a ticket or perhaps an announcement when something is burning! Yikes. Get out of the kitchen before it’s too late. But like I was saying - will Smoltz still go on the road where all Braves woes are manifest? Perhaps he was the cause of those woes part and parcel. No cannot seperate the part from the whole, the weed from the chaps. And these chaps are hanging in by the skin of their teeth. O hanging chaps. And the game is not over until ever score has been tallied and every batter has batted even relief pitchers and their designated hitters who are so deligated by whom? The powers that be? We should reject that categorically and all categories should be rejected and only then can the truth be accepted - what remains. But John Smoltz, shoulder and all, all that remains of this erstwhile hurler can stil provide comfort and resuscitude for the multitudinous denizens of this fair city even when it is hot and stiffling and muggy when the beggars downtown demand change are they muggers? I ask you, we ask you, you may ask yourself. More than once perhaps if you are so bold. But when John Smoltz returns all shiny and new, reSmoltzified as it were, taller than before but more dense, more determined and hoisting the bastion of all that is good and dear to some, we may say: is that all there is? But not. Because like a Sondheim musical or perhaps a theorem or report from the front we know what this portends - the changing of the guard. Ans the guard must change or it shall be changeth from the outside, or sometimes from the inside and hence becomes the opposite of guard: the threat. But Smoltz signifies smells of a summer night and lawns in September and dewey and hopeful and awaiting the oming frost. But who is Bobby Cox to spread fertiizer on that lawn. Why? Is it not rich enough or lush enough. Are there not enough luxuriant blades? And is there enough water or has that been banned like tobacco or medicines imported from Venezuela or seeds set in amber thousands of years before we ever set foot in a ballpark. And before Smoltz was mentioned in ancient scriptures or perhaps by Zoroaster or Don Rickles or men in summer suits with pinstripes. Before the fall. Before the national anthem was played. Before the fat lady sings. My heart harkens hence to that era in my mind and only in my mind because sadly I cannot go there. Smoltz is monumental and heroic with untold capacitance and breadth of breath beyond what we, mere “fans” are capable of. What he expunges, we retain. What he conceives, we cannot clasps our hand are too small and sweaty. The “ball” of truth is too fast and we have no mitt capable of stopping it. The “ball” of truth comes at us and drops from twelve to six and we “swing” in futility. It is beyond us but it also is in front of us. The music harkens, Jeff Beck beckons and the Mekong delta. Stern abrasions confront insipid trespassers and we look askance, slouching askew and we take our lead but a small one. For we are timid and not escobarian in our daring or kotsayic in our posture or mccannic in our garage. Go Smoltz go! Run Rabbit run. There are royalties to collect, poems to write and saves to blow. Endeavor to hold!
Have I made my self clear?
By Choppinmama
June 4, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
All the best to John, he has been an absolute WARRIOR. I’ll add a few prayers of my own to all of those flowing from Braves Nation that he has successful, minor surgery and we’ll see him on the mound for us again.
Our new rally cry on the road: REMEMBER JOHN SMOLTZ!
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Smoltz will have the surgery Tuesday, and they won’t know until they get in there what the damage is. Really no idea yet how long it’ll take to rehab, what procedure will be required, and what they’ll tell Smoltz as to his chances of realistically pitching effectively again.
Best-case scenario is a procedure that would allow him to return in April or May. But that sounds awfully optimstic and ambitious to me. Smoltz acknowledged that this could be it, that it’s possible he won’t be able to come back.
But he also said he’s doing this now, instead of trying to pitch through the season and “eke out some innings in October,” because if he did the latter he believes he would be talking retirement. He’s doing this now because he believes it gives him the best chance to continue pitching.
In other words, he’s fully intending to come back, provided the doc (Andrews) tells him it’s possible….
Chipper called the Smoltz news “devastating,” but said the Braves have got to move forward.
He said it’s amazing they’re where they are considering how badly they’ve played on the road, and that they’re right in this thing if they just start playing better on the road.
By Braves Fan in PA
June 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Does anyone have a link to hear the replay of Smoltz Press Conference? TIA
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Quotes from McCann on Smoltz:
“All year long, he goes out there and gives us everything he�s got when he�s hurting. It just shows you what kind of guy he is. I look up to him. He�s a great teammate and a great friend.”
“He couldn�t take anymore. His pain is so great he could barely pick his arm up. He gave us everything he had all season long, and just couldn�t take anymore.”
“Knowing him, I know for a fact this is not going to be it. He�s going to get back on the field.”
By DAP
June 4, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
if the phillies offense doesnt slump, which it is unlikely for ALL of their great hitter to slump, they can slug their way to the post season, but as weve seen many times, offense only doesnt get it done in the playoffs. they need at least one more really good pitcher behind hamels to win it all, but they might very well just keep winning and take the division. its up to the braves to stop them when they face them…other than that, they cant do much about the phils, they just have to win their own games.
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Nice B-squad lineup Bobby.
At least give this team a chance to win today…
By Choppinmama
June 4, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Hey Denizens, I’m not complaining TOO much, but Xtra Innings is only showing the Fish broadcasts for these games, so - please report anything interesting the Braves announcers have to say, especially about Smoltz. Thanks.
DOB- Can you please speak to someone about removing the Braves vent on your AJC homepage about Glavine? It’s out-of-date, smarmy and not dignified. It’s sickening to read that everytime I pull up the Braves page.
By Random
June 4, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
That’s OK — I’ll put it out here again.
But this time, when you see “length”, think Time not Space — duration not distance.
And when you see “height”, think “aha — metaphor!”.
;-)
“Happiness Makes Up in Height for What It Lacks in Length.”
Robert Frost
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Chipper on Smoltz news:
“Devastating. Coming into this season, I said if there’s one guy on the club we couldn’t do without, it’s John Smoltz. The mere speculation that he would be able to come back and close for us kind of kept everybody going….”
“If you had asked me in the spring, I would have said we don’t have a chance in hell of winning the division without him starting for us. We managed to keep our heads above waters not having him. But now, not having him for the rest of the season is just devastating. Flat-out devastating.”
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
I just saw the news on Smoltz,I posted either yesterday or monday that I was a bit uncomfortable looking at photos of his right arm whipping across his body with the three quarter release.This is sad and clearly we’re a stronger team with John pitching when healthy.He made the right decision though,who knows the old links bum may not be finished yet.
By Steve from OH
June 4, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Actually, the best case is Smoltz returning late in the year. If there is no structural damage and they just “clean things out,” so to speak, John may be able to return this season. When I had my shoulder surgery, the surgeon told me the same thing as my MRI was inconclusive.
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Night is to day as Hampton is to Smoltz.
Could these guys be any more polar opposites? Smoltz guts it out until his arm almost falls off vs Hampton who just has no guts
By Interested Observer
June 4, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to take away from Smoltz, who is one of my favorite players, not to mention person, ever. But I’m wondering if there was any mention of a roster move and whether it was done for today’s game or not.
By Marc
June 4, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Has a roster move been made given this Smoltz news?
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Austin, in case you missed it, the Marlins are fielding their bomb squad today, too: Amezega, Rabelo, and Helms. DGANG, and all that, LOL.
And a big thanks to McFann and TennPaul, I never knew acronyms could be so much fun.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
OverlorDDDay, I see no reason why the Phillies bullpen can’t continue to be solid (unfortunately). I remember I got criticized on the blog when people were saying Lidge is going to be a disaster in that ballpark and I expressed I thought those people were wrong.
The Phillies have a lot of talented arms and have actually had decent pitching staff the past several years. Of course no one notices because of their home park. What’s amazing this season is the Phillies have used only 12 pitchers so far this season.
Regarding Pedro, I think he’ll be very good if healthy. Problem for the Mets is he can’t go deep in to games and it wouldn’t surprise me if he got hurt again.
By HELP
June 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
PLEASE POST UPDATES THROUGHOUT THE GAME FOR US WORKERS WITHOUT STREAMLINING ABILITY AT WORK.
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine
With all due respect…I think it is CRAZY to suggest that the BRAVES will “Make No Trades”
They almost never stand pat, even if it is a minor deal and I don’t seeing them start this year.
I would be willing to bet that they look for another Outfielder AND another Starter….
Bank it!
By N8
June 4, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
StingerSplash
“With Smoltz in the pen with Soriano and Gonzalez, you could turn the Braves into the 1990 Reds, where if you trailed after six, you were done.”
Now, first of all, let me state that I am NOT attacking you.
But let’s for a second give the guys that have carried this pen (and pitching staff littered with 5 inning starts), WITHOUT Smoltz, Soriano and Gonzao, some damn credit.
They’ve done a damn fine job.
Now, don’t get me wrong, a pen that can 1/3 of the way through the season ADD arms like Soriano, Smoltz and Gonzalez would definitely benefit and prosper (given that all three were/are healthy).
But even WITHOUT Smoltz, as long as Soriano and Gonzo are remotely healthy (I still have doubts - but Soriano “looked good” last night), this bullpen can and will STILL turn these games into 6 inning affairs.
The “third” guy of the Soriano/Gonzo/?? Trio could be either Boyer or Acosta (with Ohman being the situational lefty that he should be in tough spots).
Like I said, hard to argue that our pen wouldn’t be better with Smoltz in it. But it will still be fine without him.
Now, whether Campillo and Jo-Jo can continue the success they’ve had recently, the pitching staff will be fine.
But I still see another starter (Maddux? - with Campillo and Bennett being the long men), being traded for, and more than likely a right-handed LF (Nady?) to play while Diaz is out, and just in case Kotsay doesn’t return soon.
No more need to panic than there was 2 days ago. Those who were reading between Smoltz’s comments AND watching the pain on his face everytime he threw a pitch, didn’t really expect much from him this year.
The “positive” in Smoltz going down with the surgery, is that his availablity (along with Soriano’s) won’t be in question, which should allow Bobby to drop the 13th pitcher, and add another bench player for PH and PR purposes. Then again, Pete just said Stockman was recalled, so scratch that theory. LOL!
I know it’s hard to believe coming from me, but you gotta look at the silver linings people.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
DAP, no team, not even the bashers in Philly, can continue to score runs at the current Phillies’ pace. They’ll cool off.
Cubs won’t play .650 ball all year, and Chipper won’t hit .400, either. I’m not much on predictions, but I’ll go with those three as safe.
By rebop
June 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Chipper is devastated. After all that effort to vastate himself. What a waste!
By McFann
June 4, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
ncscoots—
You’re welcome!
Random—
Hmm……IDK……
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Smoltz on the Braves: “There’s no organization I’ve loved more than this one. I’ve poured everything I have into it.”
“Dropping down [sidearm] before, I thought maybe I could do it again. I know I could have been effective, but there were limitations….
“I have no regrets. It almost worked.
“If we win the division by three games, I’ll feel good. Because I won three games.”
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Can anybody figure Glavine’s career era would be if you throw out 1st inning stats ? I’d bet it’d be quite a bit lower than his 3.5 without those 1st inning melt-downs.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Quotes from Bryan McCann on Smoltz:
Brian.
; )
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Though Chipper claims to be devastated it seems that Glavine’s pitches are defastated and that cannot be understated or mitigated. He should consider rolling them in or we can trade for someone to phone them in like the noble Redman or the wide Wickman or some other-man. The departed are adored and the door is ignored until there is no more. The score is tied but the tide is against us. Even the old man caught the fish but he did not eat of it.
By Blog
June 4, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Can’t… Load…
Too… (oomph)… Heavy…
Need… New… Blog…
By FJR
June 4, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Norton!
Anybody willing to admit that Norton is a better hitter than woodward?
By Robin
June 4, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Where’s all the Norton haterz?
By tkg
June 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Did anyone else that saw the press conference notice that Smoltz NEVER lifted his right arm? His gestures were with his left hand and arm every time.
He must feel like his right arm is about to fall off…
Hope this surgery at the very least gives him a great quality of life.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
DAP and ncscoots, the Phillies are at least a decent pitching/defensive team, maybe better than decent.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
What a relay! Perfect execution, Escobar threw a seed to McCann there and McCann blocked the plate perfectly.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Good enough block on that play at the plate?
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
I love SMOLTZ but….there is no reason for people to all of a sudden be panic-strikened and cliam the Braves are DONE without him…
Look at like this: he started the season on the DL and then only made 5 starts….
We really haven’t had SMOLTZ much at all to begin with this whole sesaon…
I don’t really see where it changes much…especially since he’ll still be “with” the team….
I still (as I have been saying) think we need another STARTER and maybe a Power BAT in the Outfield.
By Braves Fan in PA
June 4, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
The Smoltz press conference replay is now available on the braves mlb page for those of us that missed all of it. http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=atl (2nd tab)
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Look, if I were joking I would say, What do you do with an Elephant that has three balls?
You walk him and pitch to the Rhino.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Folks, this was probably the most moving moment of many from the press conference. When Smoltz was asked what his legacy would be with the Braves if this is the end:
“My legacy will be however someone wants to view it. Certainly I’m proud of it. I literally gave everything I had every time I went out there. I relished it. I couldn’t wait for the big moment….
“This has been the time of my life.”
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
The bullpen is jammed and the Braves are hoping to preserve some arms and shoulders for another game. Rookie relievers erroneously believe that by buttering up MacDowell they will receive a chance to pitch perchance to save. If Glavine does not pitch satisfactorally today our chances are toast.
By BossLady
June 4, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Who cares what they do with Smoltz contract and salary? This man has given all he had to the Braves until he cannot anymore. Given the changes in his life over the last 2 or 3 years and now his livelihood, I would hope that your common decency could step in and help you with that question.
By Random
June 4, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
John Updike — what’s eminently clear is that Y!A!I!
Gwan — get back home witcha!
Crabby Bill — I apologize. It seems you may have been right all along.
(Btw, if you’re still interested, the Upper Verde River is one of the largest remaining free-flowing, perennial rivers in the Southwestern U.S.)
;->
Rahul: “Why the hell is Norton hitting in front of Mac? Jesus”
To get the Braves a run in the first, maybe?
By TURTSNAP
June 4, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Simple Math: Norton in the lineup equals Braves loss….
Oh wait that theory was proven false yesterday :O)
Way to go ESCO
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
If one reaches on an infield single what does one grasp? And if a pitcher sacrifices himself is it all for nought? The giving up is the thing, not the getting. Not if escobaric heroics are in store. But how long can they last? Are they “freshness” dated?
By MEB
June 4, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
John Smoltz… I’m sure going to miss seeing you on the field this year. However… I’m looking forward to being in attendance next year around the All Star break for you return. Praying for your surgery next week!
GO BRAVES!!!
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
BossLady
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that they shouldn’t or aren’t going to pay SMOLTZ…
Calm down…
People want to know if insurance is going to pay some of his money which would allow the BRAVES more money to make a trade or sign a player
By jbutler
June 4, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama I’ve sent e-mails and made mention of the “vent” part of the homepage - just inappropriate. And why the heck is it left on there for so long???
Sad day indeed about Smoltz. Sort of feel the door closing on an era- and wish that he could’ve written a better ticket out. Its not done - possibly - but felt that he deserved a more galliant ride out..rather than the humble one being experienced.
Anyone notice that the pictures they put in the montage of Smoltz’ career has one from his early days that look like they’re from WWI? Honestly - it wasn’t THAT long ago!!!
By TURTSNAP
June 4, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Nothing against any of the guys playing now, but I have to rank Smoltz up towards the top, if not the top as the classiest, grittiest, most focused Brave ever. In my time, maybe only Dale Murphy would rank higher, MAYBE
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Frenchy’s liking the three hole…too bad he won’t get it until Chipper hangs up the spikes.
By FJR
June 4, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
for all you bloggers talking about an “uncompetitive team” today. Raise your hand if you thought Tex and Mac would be 0-3 and we’d already have 3 runs.
waiting….
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Stockman was recalled from Richmond to take Smoltz’s roster space.
By Goodoleboy58
June 4, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
I criticized KJ the other day about not running out ground balls but I’ll give him credit on that last one… good hustle.. I like what Josh Anderson brings to the team; proof that speed and hustle gets you on base.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
O’Brien is essentially saying, “There is something about this Smoltz.” A heavy shamed diffidence thickens his words so they seem to drop one by one from his figurative pen, downturned where he sits in his tired chair in the press box. He writes essentially of buying and selling and he is part of that transaction. This is all about money and things. That’s not good, is it?
By rammerjammer
June 4, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the news conference info and player reactions. Special stuff.
And this may be it for Smoltz. It’s a rare person who gets to write the script for his own story. As many have said, “Life is what happens while you’re making plans.”
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
And yes, Stockman is here already.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
I think Glavive should be our DB,that is our designated-bunter.He could serve in this capacity till his 60th birthday then move into a coaching position,say a combo pitching/bunting coach.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Damn, Glavine is getting torched, just like Hendrickson.
By HELP
June 4, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
HOW DID WE SCORE THREE RUNS? DO THEY HAVE ANY RUNS? WHAT INNING IS IT? HOW’S GLAVINE DOING?
By GeorgetownKid
June 4, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith
You make a great point when you say that we haven’t really had Smoltz all year. What the Braves have done this year has been done almost entirely without the bearded great one. We need to remember, that while he has been the dominant subject of discussion for much of the season, he only gave us 2 wins in 5 starts.
The Braves are a playoff-callibre team without Smoltz. Of course, not having him is a HUGE loss for this team’s long-term prospects, but we still have a bonafide ace (Hudson) and we can still run out a starter who gives us a very good chance to win every game.
I am in my 20s, which means that I have been cheering for John Smoltz for my entire life. He is my favorite player in all of sports, and number two isn’t close. This being said, we can still win this year without him.
By Supes
June 4, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
beat the mets, beat the mets, step right up and beat the mets… David Wright can’t wear Chipper’s jock…Jose Reyes has disappeared, and half their team is old and over the hill! Pedro will be back on the DL before long, a shadow of his former self, Willie will be fired and they’ll go back to being the readheaded stepchild of NY baseball teams that they are!
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Oh, man, LOL. Maybe, when a hitter steps into the box, Glavine could just say, “2-and-oh…that OK with you?”, and go from there. :-)
(I know, I know, an exaggeration. But the guy does seem to average 20+ pitches an inning.)
By N8
June 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
To those “praising” Norton, (which is fine, he got a hit and an RBI in his 1st AB - not a surprise if you look at the numbers), here’s what’s to be expected the rest of the game.
In his 1st AB facing an opponent (whether it’s a starting pitcher or a reliever), he is now 14-42 (.333) with 1 HR and 12 RBI.
In the 2nd and 3rd+ AB’s against the same pitcher, he has gone 2 for 19 (.122) with O HR and 0 RBI.
So, if Hendrickson stays in the game, Norton most likely will make outs. If the Marlins bring in a reliever, all bets are off.
Hmmm. Whaddya know? Norton makes an out in AB #2. I guess he’s now 2 for 20 (.100) after his first AB aginst the same pitcher.
But at least he made his first AB count, right?
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Smoltz is fidgeting in his seat on the bench. “Should I accompany the team on the next road trip out West?” he wondered. “Maybe I ought to go. But in the West they hardly have pizzas, everything is that awful Mexican crap, tacos and chili.” Bobby Dews came by and touched his arm. The left one, not the damaged right arm. Smoltz nodded. Bobby sat there, saying nothing, just moving the styrofoam coffee cup from hand to hand. “I used to make my own uniforms” he thought, “but once I had to go to bifocals I couldn’t even sew the buttons on.” At the crack of the bat, he looked up. The ball carried long and high to dead center field. The new centerfielder simply turned and watched. It was a 3-2 ballgame.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Neyer on Smoltz and the Braves:
The news about John Smoltz is disheartening. His career may not be over, but we may assume he’s finished as an effective pitcher. Smoltz is going to have to decide for himself whether or not all the rehab work is worth it. If he tries to come back, the Braves will put on a brave face and list him in their future plans, just as they have with Mike Hampton for the last three years. But Smoltz’s career is essentially over. What does it mean for him? Well, he’s already as good in the Hall of Fame. He won 210 games, saved another 154, won a Cy Young Award, and sports one of greatest postseason records (15-4, 2.65) you’ll ever see. He may have to wait a few years, but he’s in. What does it mean for the Braves? Even without Smoltz for most of this season, they’ve got the third-best run differential (+72) in the league, but they’re just 31-28 because they’re 3-16 in one-run games. Chipper Jones has played out of his mind, but that’s been (roughly) balanced by disappointing numbers from Matt Diaz and Jeff Francoeur. Pitching-wise, Tim Hudson and rookie Jair Jurrjens have both been quite good, as have the key relievers. I’m guessing the Braves really are this good, and will remain contenders even without Smoltz.
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for all of the Smoltz quotes today. I’ve never bought into the whole idea of sports hero worship, but Smoltz has been (and will continue to be) my favorite Brave of all-time. I appreciate the work you’ve done today.
Mea Culpa
Well, if I had realized that Monday night was going to be Smoltz’s possible last hurrah, I wouldn’t have been quite as hard on Bobby Cox. It’s quite probable that Smoltz just let Bobby know that he wanted to see if he could still hack it as a closer. When it didn’t work out (and the pain was even worse Tuesday morning and afternoon), Smoltz knew that his time was up. I can respect that.
I won’t often do this, but I owe Bobby an apology. Thanks for giving the ol’ war horse one more shot.
By N8
June 4, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
I was gonna state in my last post about Norton, that one should not take my word for it, it’s just numbers.
But then I remembered that I played American Legion ball (which is a slight step above little-league), so I must know what I’m talking about, right?
By Deep Throat
June 4, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Minaya’s Elderly Team Sucks
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Hampton has been sleeping upstairs. In his house. He sleeps more and more lately, a dazed evading sleep that is not refreshing. When he comes downstairs he is wearing an old white t-shirt. He has been wearing it for several days. He brushed back his sticky hair and asked roughly, “What will I do today? What can I do?”
By cricket
June 4, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Today again it looks like a battle between the dreaded curse of 1-run games and the amazing win home games miracle.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
We might have to use some other relievers today. Stockman, Ring, Carlyle…..even if the situations they appear in are “high leverage”.
By MiamiBrave
June 4, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
HELP
In the bottom of the fourth Braves up 3 to 2
norton rbi single in the first
in the second, two out rbi singles by Yunel and Frenchy
keep you posted while I can
By Dandy one
June 4, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
I only lurk, never comment, but this needs to be said: Updike, you’re brilliant.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Glavine wound up and threw. A soft release that arched towards the plate plunking Cody Ross. “I’ve got to keep the ball down, but off the plate. Shoot, a one-armed dwarf could hit me these days.” His breath began to ache in his chest and his muscles and the air overhead felt taut and unified and defiant of gravity. “Am I too old for this?” He paused and calculated his earned run average. He had given up two runs. In slightly less than three innings. “That’s over 4.5”. He motioned to McCann, a breeze biting into his sweat.
By rammerjammer
June 4, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Here’s some help HELP, courtesy Gameday.
Glavine walked a couple guys in the first then allowed a single and a run scored.
Braves got it back when Kelly doubled, Francoeur singled and Norton singled in Kelly.
Braves got two in the second when Anderson singled, Glavine bunted him over and Escobar singled a run in and Francoeur later singled in another run with two outs.
Florida got a run back in the third on a Ramirez HR.
It’s 3-2 Braves, home half of the fourth. Glavine, whose thrown 75 pitches in four innings, just worked a 10-pitch walk from Hendrickson. Cool.
By kirknga
June 4, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I think we should wait before we say Smoltz is done. Yeah it’s bad he’s out for the year, but given his history it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him back.
We need another starter. I vote no on Maddux. For now. He’ll give you 200 innings, but also a 4+ ERA all for $10 million.I think Blanton is a better a choice because he’ll give you similar innings and ERA for less salary and he’s more than a 1-2 year investment.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox knew he should be focusing on the game but he couldn’t stop thinking of home. The land grew wilder. He pictured the road to his house. It evaded ponds and tunneled through pines. He imagined diving home. The music on the radio slowly freezing, old rock and roll. From before the Beatles. He couldn’t remember the name of the song or who was singing. It was comfortable. “It takes forever to get home” he thought, “where are the dogs?”
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
kirknga,
The Braves already inquired about Blanton and didn’t come close to meeting Oakland’s demands.
All five starters are pitching well right now. We have a former all-star(Hampton) eyeing a return at the all-star break,we have a top prospect(Morton) lighting it up at AAA, and we have a guy in the bullpen(Bennett) fully capable of starting if need be.
There’s no need, but if one arises, we should be able to adequately fill it.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Glavine is the master of the 20 pitch inning.
By Austin
June 4, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Top 5th.
Ramierz strikeout looking. 1 out Hermida tapper to 1st. 2 out Helms double down third base line. Runner on 2nd 2 outs. Jacobs strikeout swinging
inning over
Mid 5th Braves 3 Marlins 2
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
This team is going to have to acquire another starter. Glav is only a 5 innings guy and JoJo and Jair are too young to be leaned on too much. Jair also has the potential rotator cuff issues after he reaches 140-150 innings. Perhaps if Hampton comes back, but who wants to bank on that? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we need another starting pitcher, a young guy that we can control for several years… good luck finding him Wren.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
O’Brien wondered “when was the last time I was in Texas. I can’t remember.” For some reason, he remembered a house on a strange treeless residential street, the green night growing up from the prarie. Flowers in the window. His reverie ended when he noticed a fellow scribe, old, thin lips wet with whisky from a thermos. “What will become of me” he wondered. “Maybe I’ll have Chinese tonight.”
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Found this little quote on Paul Newberry’s AP story about Smoltz:
“It wouldn’t surprise me if he came back as a left-handed pitcher,” said Florida manager Fredi Gonzalez, a former Braves coach.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Is Boyer available today?
By Austin
June 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Bottom 5th Francoeur fly out to CF. 1 out Tex K looking 2 out.
By KC
June 4, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Chipper is going to have to inspire more confidence in this team’s ability to win without Smoltz than he did with his comments today.
Come on U Know Who… gotta inspire the troops!
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Chipper approached Smoltz.
“Can I give you a lift? After the game.”
“No. Heck. Don’t bother.”
“I’d like to talk to you. Really.”
“No; you don’t really want to, do you?”
“I do, yes. Very much.”
“Yeah. O.K. What are you driving today?”
By TURTSNAP
June 4, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
If Glavine indeed is gone after 5 today, I’d like to see his IP’s per start this year. I remember when we resigned him, the thought was that he could give us innings, but he has left early quite a bit this year so far.
That being said, the Braves almost have to sign or trade for another pitcher. Jurrjens, while good, is a rookie, so could wear down as the season goes on. It appears that Glavine may not be able to give us innings. Hudson is the only one of the five that can be counted on to give us innings. Kinda scary!!!
By Austin
June 4, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Boyer takes the mound to start the 6th.
By Shaun
June 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
N8, I doubt there is anything to those Norton numbers. You are looking at 20-40 at-bats per situation. Over his career his highest OPS is in extra-innings. His OPS is also higher than his career OPS in the 5th and 6th inning. His career OPS in the 1st-3rd innings is lower than his career OPS.
I’d put more stock in his overall numbers when evaluating Norton.
By eric the elder
June 4, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Updike
Yours is a niche market, I’m sure, but I wanted to say I appreciate what you are doing.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Norton snuck back to the clubhouse between innings. Chances were he would not have to bat.
The lighter pops. Norton puts it to his cigarette, inhales, and everything seems to come back into focus.
“The Mariners hate me” he thinks. “No one has called. It’s been over a month now. Maybe two.” He flicks ashes on the carpet and thinks about getting back to the dugout.
By Coach (Braves in 2008 to the playoffs)
June 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
With or without John Smoltz, the Braves are playoff caliber. They will persevere. As for needing another starting pitcher, the Braves already have one. His name is Charlie Morton and should the Braves need feel the need to bolster their starting pitching, Morton will get the call.
By BravesFanInRockies
June 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
The more I think about it, the Braves’ main need now is a LF with pop. (Nothing against Norton, who’s doing fine but face it, he’s a corner IF not OF, and a part-time player.)
It looks as if the Braves are going to stick with a 13-man pitching staff for the time being, what with age and youth and injuries and such. So the bench is thinner, meaning the starters need to produce more.
Even if Kotsay returns pretty soon, I would imagine he’d need at least one day off a week and perhaps more. And if he’s not coming back soon, you need to replace his bat in the lineup.
Besides, as others have said, the Braves have pitching options within the system who may be ready now. Hitters? Not so many.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, Daniel Bedard, for two of the lower-level minor league pitching studs.
Say it a couple of times, and it rolls trippingly off the tongue.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
TenneseePaul
This team is going to have to acquire another starter. Glav is only a 5 innings guy and JoJo and Jair are too young to be leaned on too much. Jair also has the potential rotator cuff issues after he reaches 140-150 innings. Perhaps if Hampton comes back, but who wants to bank on that? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we need another starting pitcher, a young guy that we can control for several years… good luck finding him Wren.
I agree 100% with your statement. I think Wren is, but would you be willing to give up 3 prospects(ones not named Brandon Jones and Brent Lillibridge) for Joe Blanton? He is a horse, and exactly what this team is looking for, but the guy is overrated ot the max. I’m not saying you suggested Blanton, just saying that he is the only young starter that might be available.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
McFann
What’s wrong with your boy? That average went from .337 to .308 in like a week…..
Just joking.
Heap is probably my favorite Brave.
By bgvt
June 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Argh… If Bobby was willing to let Boyer pitch two innings, why didn’t he stick him in Norton’s spot in the line up and put Blanco in the 9th spot (which would have also improved the defense)?
I’m a bit surprised Boyer will pitch two innings.
Well, at least Boyer got the bunt down.
By woogidy
June 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
The broken bat topic sounds like a broken record. I am so tired of hearing it! We get the freakin’ point Joe and Chip. Let it go!
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
BTW, I’m watching a replay of Richmond’s game yesterday on MiLB.com so I could watch Charlie Morton. What I don’t hear talked about so much with Charlie is how well he varies the speeds on his fastball. He’s got a four-seamer that he can throw 94-95 mph. But the real pitch is his two-seamer he throws 89-91 which has tremendous sink. He obviously has the stuff to be a strikeout pitcher but if he wanted, I think this kid could just pitch to contact with that sinker and be just as effective. His change-up looks good and from what I’ve heard, is his most improved pitch. And like I’m sure many of you know, he’s got a huge 12-6 curve.
I’ll take a page out of Chipper’s book and say “Lose a Wainwright, gain a Wainwright.”
By Moby Grape
June 4, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
I guess the Josh Anderson advocates are a happy breed right now. Of course it doesn’t mean he will continue at this level and it’s not both Blanco & Anderson at the same time. Good for Josh and I hope he keeps it up for rest of the year.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Daniel Bedard
Oh, boy, talk about a Freudian slip, LOL. I meant Daniel Cabrera, natch.
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Come on U Know Who… gotta inspire the troops!
I know Smoltz just went down, but if a .400 average isn’t going to inspire the troops, what will?
This year, Jair, Tim, Glav, JoJo, Camp…?? 4 of those have inning limits.
Next year: Jair Jurrjens, JoJo Reyes, Tim Hudson, Charlie Morton?? Maybe Campillo or Carlyle? I don’t think so. This team will need to acquire another pitcher. Wren knows it well.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Oh, enough with the maple bat discussion. I can’t stand hearing about it. It reminds me of all the shark attacks in 2001. Enough already.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
“From about twelve years old on” Chipper says, “he was at it day and night. There was a mound in the backyard but the yard wasn’t big enough. When he set his mind to something, there was no stopping him”. He yanked powerfully at the tape on the bat, pulling a long piece off. “He wanted to be the best and I honestly believe he was.”
“I know what you mean,” Ohman says, “I play a little golf with him and I’m nowhere near as good as him.”
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Efrim: I’m not going to play the name-that-pitcher game. I’ll just hope Wren can be as swift as JS was back in his day, pulling the card no one though of.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
those comments by hoss about smoltz arent very encouraging. i guess he assumes its all over for the braves now?
By DAP
June 4, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
weve gotten through 7 with the lead…hold it, bullpen!!!!
By McFann
June 4, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Efrim—
It has taken a huge nose-dive since he ended his 13-game hitting streak.
Good choice in favorite, though.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
wow, three Ks today for tex. taking the smoltz news pretty hard i guess.
By eric the elder
June 4, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
The broken bat topic sounds like a broken record. I am so tired of hearing it!
I sort of am too, mostly because they are talking to fans who have no input. Take it up with the authorities, lads.
And while you’re at it, consider this rule change: A batter who throws his bat into the stands is out.
Wouldn’t happen because MLB cares more about its players than it does about its fans.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Frncoeur thought about his old room. Upstairs. With the one-eyed teddy bear and the Little Golden Book about a little choo-choo who was afraid of tunnels. What was he afraid of? Failure? A fastball to the face. Not really. Something else. Something he could barely discern. His mood darkened.
By kirknga
June 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave
Yes I’m aware of all that, but as Joe and Chip were jut discussing, we really only have 1 pitcher..Hudson…that can pitch past the 6th inning.
I believe this will break down the pen. We need at least one more young starter that can pitch into the 7th and 8th inning. Blanton can do that. He’s not a #1, likely not a #2, but he’s a solid #3 who will give you 200 innings , a 2-1 strikeouts/walks, and an ERA in the high 3’s.
I know they asked for alot, but the Braves do have the pieces to get the deal done. I suggest the earlier the better.
The pitching has been good but there’s no guarantee that it will remain that way because of the lack of a track record for those we’re depending on.I would love to see Hampton back and in form, but it is foolish to consider him in the mix. And if he does,is he going to go beyond the 5th or 6th much?
By Lee in S. GA
June 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
The broken bat topic sounds like a broken record. I am so tired of hearing it! We get the freakin’ point Joe and Chip. Let it go!
Not being able to up Peachtree TV and therefore not having to listen to Chip announce is priceless. I will listen to the radio on those games.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Gameday says Blaine Boyer is still in. But that can’t be right. Someone assure me that Cox isn’t throwing Blaine to the dogs. Please? Even if he gets out of this inning fine, this is how you hurt a pitcher. Especially one with so many sppearances. Why doesn’t Bobby trust Stockman? Its like Devine last year. Why waste the spot?
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
I was wondering when Bobby would put in Blanco for Norton. Makes sense to pull a double switch though. Good move.
By Epinephrine
June 4, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Phew just one AB. Disregard.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I’m not going to play the name-that-pitcher game.
I didn’t want to play it either, but Bedard and Haren were dealt last year, Kazmir and Peavy were signed long term. Those were the impact, “sunny side of 30” pitchers that the Braves needed/do need. Other than that, the Braves could go after AJ Burnett or Ben Sheets and watch them walk after the year. We went for broke and got Tex, why not keep it going and get Sheets? I don’t want to, but that may be the only guy available.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
The bench coach paced to and fro. Throughout the game he had the sensation of nobody hearing him, of his spirit muffled in pulpy insulation. So he talked all the louder and more insistently. He felt eyes burn on his back as he walked to the watercooler. “Let’s go” he said before bending to sip from the stream of cold water. Suddenly, for no reason, he thought of Biff Pocoroba, fishing in the Poconos. Strange. He had never been to the Poconos.
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
This just in:
Boyer will miss several months in the 2009 season with an arm injury.
Could you use Boyer any more, Bobby? This is why Moylan isn’t pitching this year…
By midaz
June 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Holy cow what a bad call at first. I will take it but sheesh….
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
kirknga,
Difference in opinion then. Obviously the lack of innings concerns me, but I think we have more than enough starters. JJ could go deep before a recent funk. Campillo just isn’t stretched out. Reyes has thrown 13 innings the last two starts. Glavine is the only one you can look at right now as being a definitive 5-6 inning guy. Hampton, you’re right you can’t count on. Bennett’s got a live arm who can start at a moment’s notice and Morton’s been dominant.
We’ll need a pitcher next year, but this year I think we have enough pitching.
With that being said, and considering the price, there’s no way I’d touch Blanton. You yourself called him a #3, guess what…the A’s value him as an ace. They turned down Homer Bailey. That means the A’s would at least want our top prospect plus another one or two REALLY good ones.
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
June 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
ncscoots & shaun
I think - like N8 said - you had to at least play ball in your teenage years where you actually learned to play and were old enough to understand. Not just run around the field doing everything the coach was yelling at you to do.
I’m not saying that people are wrong b/c they didn’t, I’m saying that they are only sharing stuff that they read or were told by someone else, not their personal knowledge. It makes a difference.
As far as Shakespeare goes your talking about the difference between something you read vs. something that you play. Not a good comparison and a little off track but I know what you mean. Here is a better one - would you rather take a seminar about baseball from a former player/coach or from a guy who has all of Tom Emansky’s tapes??
By David
June 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Why did Gonzalez get ejected? I’m following via espn.com’s gamecast, and it just indicated he was ejected but no reason given….?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
That’s sad. Woogiddy was sick of the broken bat discussion at 3:15. I said I was tired of it at 3:20. That means they were still talking about it for 5 minutes after woogiddy was sick of it.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
That was one of the worst calls I’ve seen in baseball this year. Is that 1B ump blind? Good for Freddi getting tossed there- he learned from the best in Cox.
By BossLady
June 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
My goodness the news has just come out, he has not gone to Alabama, much less got the surgery and results and people are asking about his money. I don’t think it is a topic for discussion until all the results are in and decisions are made. Right now, I just want his health to be taken care of and not just for pitching but for him to be pain free.
By Interested Observer
June 4, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Wow! We have a new leader in the race for the worst umpiring call ever! At least it was in our favor, although you hate to see any call missed that badly.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
“Four to two” Cox thought. “Four to two. Sounds like fortitude. Hold the fort, we can win this.” He smiled and thought about John Wayne, picturing him with that sweaty bandana around his neck, his shirt open, a gun in each hand. He tried to remember the last time he fired one of his own guns. Last summer? At the racoons?
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
And to add to my Morton post before, I just have to say Sal Fasano is working extremely well with him. They’re both really thinking out there and they both look like they’re enjoying working together. I hope we keep him in the organization to work with other young pitchers(Hanson next year?)
By THB
June 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Scoots-I king of like where you’re going with Cabrera. He’s always had excellent stuff, but definetely some control problems. I think if he’s still got a sub 4 ERA at the deadline, he’ll be dealt. Wouldn’t mind seeing him on the Braves if he’s pitching well.
By Nate
June 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves could trade for Barry Zito. San Fransisco would have to agree to pick up half his contract, and I know his numbers for the year are brutal, but he’s actually pitched pretty well over the past month, with the exception of yesterday. He’s healthy and can eat innings. Plus the Braves have a history of turning troubled pitcher around, and he has experience pitching in big games. It would be a big gamble.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Blanton [is] a solid #3 who will give you 200 innings , a 2-1 strikeouts/walks, and an ERA in the high 3’s.
Braves supposedly already signed that pitcher in the offseason for $8MM.
A trade for a mid-rotation or back-end starter makes little sense, considering that Jurrjens, Reyes, even Morton, are likely to give you the same performance or better (other than innings, perhaps).
But limiting the innings of those young pitchers goes away after this year (you would hope), so future club control of an “innings-eater” is moot. That makes Blanton MUCH less attractive.
By cabravesfan
June 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Why can’t Manny Acosta’s arm fall off?
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Well that lead disappeared rather swiftly.
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
ARGH!!!
By Jeff321
June 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Well what do you know? A 2 run jack and the Marlins who unlike the Braves, refuse to roll over and are back in it.
By prattvillenolzfan
June 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…The JJ (not Jurrjeans!!!) character on Peachtree is the most annoying charcter on TV….Why is he on…..
HEY DOB
Why are they playing an afternoon game in the MIDDLE of a 4 games series…I can understand the getaway game…But this…….
Before I comment on Smoltzie, I need to wait and see what the Dr’s say….
By David
June 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Acosta just gave up a 9th-inning, game-tying 2-run home run to a Marlin bench warmer…..
By GeorgetownKid
June 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Is Smoltz officially on the DL yet? Maybe we can squeeze one more inning out of that shoulder, because Accosta sure doesn’t have it today.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Acosta’s secondary stuff today is awful. He’s got to stick to that boring, ole 96 mph fastball.
By THB
June 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Way to waste another one of Glavine’s starts…
By Original Jon
June 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
DAMNIT MANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTEFF!!!!!!!!!!
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Wow, that was quick.
Hopefully we can score a run in the bottom of the ninth.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
david ganzalex was arguing a bad call at first. the jacobs beat the throw, and was called out.
bobby puts acosta out there against the bottom of the order, and he cant get it done. were gonna need another walk off, here.
By Interested Observer
June 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
I’m so glad we’re carrying 13 pitchers so we don’t have to burn out Boyer, Ohman, or Acosta.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Escobar stood at the plate. The pitcher was a puzzle and had to be solved. He was also angry. His teammates did not get him. It wasn’t just the language, there were plenty of guys that spoke a little Spanish. They just didn’t understand that he had an interior life. Tropical and dense. He walked barefoot on the beach, in the rain. Spicy food to be eaten. No potatoes. Please, not another potato.
By Bart Giamatti
June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Before I died, I said this about baseball:
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart.”
Ain’t it the truth…
By Halloween Head
June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
John Updike,
Nice posts. A very welcome and finely crafted distraction.
I’m curious what your take is on “The Maples” used in bats these days.
By Will
June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
You Gotta be kidding me!!!!!!! Great pitching Manny.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Dammit Acosta!
When Cantu stretches that hit into a double, why does Chip have to drip with cheese and say “he’ll try for two and he cantu make it.”
That’s why I can’tu stand chip. Too much cheese.
By brent a.
June 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
I am thinking that this is the first time all season that we have a had a save situation in Three straight games.
And as it turns out, we ended up sending out a different closer in all three games.
Kind of strange, I thought.
By Ringer
June 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
I’m a ringer.
“[DOB] sits in his tired chair in the press box.”
I’m sure if DOB were sitting on me, I’d be tired, too.
“Again brutish necessity wipes its hands
“Upon the napkin of a dirty cause, again
“A waste of our compassion, as with Spain,
“The gorilla wrestles with the superman.”
By DAP
June 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
i hate manny acosta right now. we had this one won, dang it.
By kirknga
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Wow. Acosta. Well let the ..”why didn’t Bobby come get him?…begin.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I thought Ohman could probably of been used for another inning. Oh well. And there is Cantu with a double to center and H Ram with a bomb to left. This stuff happens when your starters continually can’t go more than 5.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
WTF? That sucked. Acosta being rightfully booed as he leaves the mound a bum this afternoon.
By TennesseePaul
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Sheeeesh. GameDay has that Ramirez Homer going about 600 ft. Don’t think we’ll come back from this one…
By Jeff321
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Well, I posted too soon. Now Acosta gives up his second jack of the inning. Its awfully nice that Cox decides to bring in another pitcher when we’re down 6-4, eh?
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
And that’s the ballgame. Oh well - you can’t win them all.
By Robin
June 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
D*IT!! This is gonna hurt!
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Like I said, Acosta never had the secondary stuff and McCann kept calling for it, even after Acosta’s changeup got rocked for a HR and his slider nailed for a double. of course, Ramirez is going to nail the hanging slider. Then again, one could argue Cox should have pulled him earlier.
By David
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Manny just gave up another 2-run homer. Now the Braves are down, 6-4, and the Marlins have only one out in the top of the 9th.
By Dan in NJ
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
SO GLAD to see Stockman back. I’m sure he’s going to collect a ton of dust/rust. NO IDEA WHY he gets called up. BC AGAIN rather pitch the same guys over and over and over and over. OMG enough already
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
This is the ONE thing about COX that drives me NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!
It was OBVIOUS after the first HR that MANNY didn’t have it today but instead of taking him out…YOU LEAVE HIM IN LONG ENOUGH TO COST US THE GAME!
By TURTSNAP
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Bullpen by committee bit us in the ARSE today
By monty
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Piece of crap pitching on Acosta’s part. 2-3 hanging curveballs and a change to the pinch hitter that just sat there. Not acceptable! Your team fights hard all day and you come in and that’s all you can contribute! Ridiculous!
By Coach (Braves in 2008 to the playoffs)
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Just great, Acosta blows the save one the two run bomb. Worse yet, Cox just sits in the dugout and watches as Acosta gives up another two run bomb.
For STUPID !
Any manager worth his salt would have pulled Acosta after he gave up the third hit of the inning.
Cox has his head up his butt.
By StingerSplash
June 4, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Well, Acosta wanted the chance to close. Looks like he’s closing the door on his time in Atlanta.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Glavine took the wad of gum from his mouth and flicked it onto the dugout floor already wet and littered with gum, and seeds, and spittle. “Where did that come from? Rabelo? Guy’s hitting, what, two-ten with two homeruns. Gimme a break!” He wasn’t going to get the win today. Heck, he wondered if the team would even win.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Terrible showing from Manny Acosta. We had this one in the bag. Ohman threw 9 pitches and the Marlins haven’t touched him all series, but it is in BC’s contract that he has to use him. Questionable decision that will most likely cost us the game.
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
I Cantu believe that Chip is allowed to announce Braves games. I hate his guts and I, like Braveheart, Cantu stand him.
Nice job, Acosta.
Oh, well. That’s just Manny being Manny, right?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
In case anyone was wondering, Joe Simpson wants Blanco to bat leadoff and doesn’t want Escobar leading off. If he doesn’t remind us of this once a game, he at least does it 12 times a game.
By 1957 Braves Fan
June 4, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Ouch! Reitsma, Sosa, Wickman all over again.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Is there anybody left who believes this team has the right makeup ? Speaking of makeup Cox has never been able to read the makeup of his relief pitchers.For 20 years he’s sent one sweating,hyperventilating,sulking pitcher out after another to close games.From Wohlers to Rocker he’s never developed one with the right stuff.
By BamaBravesFan
June 4, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Did someone ACTUALLY suggest that we trade for Barry Zito?!? HAHAHA…thank you for that laugh. I needed it on a SLOW work day. Wow…some people. I hope that was your idea of comedy. B/c it wasn’t funny.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
We need Soriano and Gonzalez completely healthy BAD.
By David
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Frenchy swinging at the first pitch….wish he had just gone to Clemson & played football….
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Damn, that was a really frustrating loss. I can’t believe that even happened? Why can’t we steal one like that from a team?!?!?
By Coach Smith
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
This was HORRIBLE today…you HAVE to win games like this…you HAVE to..especially when you are so bad on the road….
I love him BUT you gotta hang this one on COX…the first 2 run HR was one thing BUT…when the next guy gets a hit it is time to get MANNY out of there BEFORE he loses the game for you….
Instead you let him blow a save, then the game!
By StingerSplash
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
N8,
My point is this — the bullpen has been taxed like a Massachusetts millionaire. They’ve done a fine job to this point. But a whole lot has been asked of them, and we ain’t even at D-Day yet. As much as I love Maddux, he isn’t the answer to the Braves’ problems. He’s not the 7-8 inning guy he once was and the Braves don’t need another pitcher who is a 5-6 inning guy. You’ve got one guy — Hudson — who you feel comfortable can go 7-plus anytime he takes the hill. The rest? Not so much. And that burns up a bullpen. Plus, we really don’t know what Gonzo will be able to do when he gets back to Atlanta. Plus, Mr. Acosta’s tenure in the bullpen is about to be, or at least should be, up.
By Renegator
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Nice game (dripping with sarcasm)
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Hey, desperate for good news? Chipper is 6-for-10 with two homers against Nolasco, tomorrow night’s starter.
We’re here to bring sunshine.
By geauxbraves2000
June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Single, let’s leave Acosta in, maybe he can get the double play. HR, game tied, maybe Acosta will settle down. Double. Okay, the proper response now is, pull him, he doesn’t have it today. Instead, the reponse will prob be “he was just unlucky”.
Why BC can’t recognize when his pitcher doesn’t have it until it’s too late is beyond me. He may be a great manager, he may be great with the players, but I think he has no clue how to manage the bullpen. This loss is on him today.
Geaux Braves!!
By geauxbraves2000
June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Single, let’s leave Acosta in, maybe he can get the double play. HR, game tied, maybe Acosta will settle down. Double. Okay, the proper response now is, pull him, he doesn’t have it today. Instead, the reponse will prob be “he was just unlucky”.
Why BC can’t recognize when his pitcher doesn’t have it until it’s too late is beyond me. He may be a great manager, he may be great with the players, but I think he has no clue how to manage the bullpen. This loss is on him today.
Geaux Braves!!
By Caleb
June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Did all the Braves go into the clubhouse and change into their road blue uniforms for the ninth inning???
By Neal
June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Of course Jeff goes up there and swings at the first pitch…
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
”The Atlanta .500s”, kind a’ has a ring to it….a ring of truth.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Way to be patient, Frenchy. And Acosta…
Aw, sheesh! I had a bad feeling about this game from the get-go.
By DAP
June 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
well, our pitching robbed us of a win. hopefully this isnt the beginning of a trend as the season matures and our bullpen arms are all overused.
By Robin
June 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
That debacle in the top of the 9th is INEXCUSABLE!!! Manny shoulda been yanked after the first dinger. WTF!!!
By THB
June 4, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
That was one horrible 9th inning. And Francouer ends the game with a first pitch groundout. Damn I thought we might sweep the Fish, but we gave away another win…
By Will
June 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory! Geez! I know there people on here that argue til they are blue in the face that every game counts absolutely the same 1-162, but that one combined with the loss of Smoltzie is gonna sting for awhile. Stinks to lose the game with Chipper’s 3 slot up there too. Not remotely trying to say they should have pinch hit for Francoeur or anything, but it just sucks to have your 3 hitter up whacking at the first pitch like that, but i guess i am not surprised.
By Coach (Braves in 2008 to the playoffs)
June 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
BOB-BY COX
OV-ER RAT-ED
CLAP CLAP
CLAP CLAP CLAP
BOB-BY COX
OV-ER RAT-ED
CLAP CLAP
CLAP CLAP CLAP
BOB-BY COX
OV-ER RAT-ED
CLAP CLAP
CLAP CLAP CLAP
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Hey, DOB, what’s our record now when Chipper’s out of the game?
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Marlins are going to be in this thing till the end. Not sure how it is even possible considering how bad their starting pitching is, but the team can hit when it counts. I’d say the Braves will go 3-2 the rest of this trip and then they march on into a critical road trip where they have to start winning some games.
By John Updike
June 4, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
The Maples, Joan and Richard, loved one another and vowed to stick together. But their marriage broke apart and the family splintered. In the end, Joan left without batting an eye.
By Bobby Cox (Satire)
June 4, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Hi guys. Here to tell you that despite what happened today, I still trust Acosta more than Stockman.
By Random
June 4, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Well said, Capt Caveman:
“would you rather take a seminar about baseball from a former player/coach or from a guy who has all of Tom Emansky’s tapes??”
By N8
June 4, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
So let me get this right.
Cox recalls Stockman as to STILL have 13 pitchers on the roster, yet he leaves Acosta out there to get hammered and blow the game?
Unreal.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I don’t like to blame BC, but you have to take Manny out after that double from Cantu. Actually, even before that, Ohman should of pitched the 9th. He threw 9 pitches in the 8th.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
7-1 in two run games now.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Acosta has been good all year, don’t blame him. Blame BC on this one. Ohman threw 9 pitches in the 8th.
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
The Braves stole one the other night after Smoltz blew the save. Maybe the Marlins owed us one today? Maybe Fredi Gonzalez fired the team up by tearing the first base ump a new one for blowing a call? I don’t know. It’s baseball, and this baseball team is as hard to figure as any you’ll see. I guess we need Caveman to explain it to us. Baseball Reference isn’t helping me out.
On second thought…
Stat: Acosta has now allowed 6 HR in 30 innings of relief.
(I guess he’s prone to the gopher ball.)
By STRETCH
June 4, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
WHO THE HECK IS MANNY ACOSTA ANYWAY?!!! GET RID OF THIS GUY NOW!!!!!
Man that really sucked….these are the games you have to win. You must win these games with the way they are playing on the road. Instead Bobby leaves ole rubber arm in the game and he immediately gives up 4 runs after everyone has worked their butts off all day!
WREN, get up and make a move already! They need another arm in a bad way!
BOBBY COX IS THE BEST MANAGER EVER FOLKS! LOL!
By Lew
June 4, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
NY Jay-A lot of it came from Mets’ Fans coming over here and other Braves’ Blogs and talking undeserved smack and (for the most part) being as obnoxious and nasty as they could possibly be.
The reaction of Braves’ fans is directly proportional to the attitude Mets’ fans have been putting forth. Otherwise, Braves’ fans would look at the Mets as a pretty big joke the last 20 years, unworthy of even being considered a Rival-or maybe as Chipper’s whipping boys.
By Caleb
June 4, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
I know he’s our young phenom and all (and I like him), but I think Chipper should have pinch-hit for Francouer in the bottom of the ninth. Righty vs lefty, .400+ hitter vs .250 hitter. Even if the Braves had just tied, Infante could have moved to RF and Gotay could have played infield.
By PJ
June 4, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
When you use the same relief pitching in every game, expect losses like this sprinkled in throughout the season.
Any home loss hurts bad, considering the miserable road record.
Chipper says the one player the Braves couldn’t afford to lose is John Smoltz. Does this mean we are throwing in the towel on ‘08?
By N8
June 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
StingerSplash
I was going to amend my post to you, laced with a big azz APOLOGY.
I was wrong. You (for today) were right.
As for the bullpen being taxed? You’re barking up the wrong tree dude. Been saying that that would be the case since about the 3rd week of the season, when Smoltz and Glavine were only going 5 innings, and Cox refused to use “mop up” guys in the blowout games.
As for Maddux? I get that he’s not THE answer to our rotation issues.
But before we get all excited about Campillo, let’s remember that Kyle Davies and HoRam BOTH did pretty well when first called up. As good as Campillo’s been (and he’s been phenomenal, I’m not buying stock in him being THE answer yet either).
Having Maddux WOULD fortify the 5th spot, at the very least. Not to mention give us TWO guys (Bennett and Campillo) that could, have and would provide us with long-relief.
If Wren can acquire another starter to “give the veterans one more shot”, that’s not only good for this year, but also the future….GO FOR IT.
But here’s the thing. Smoltz is out. Chipper is OBVIOUSLY not done playing at a high level, and Glavine is just as much a part of the problem (by only being able to go 5 innings), as he is the solution (by pitching fairly decent for those 5 innings, most of the time).
So why sell the farm to make a run THIS YEAR? Chipper will be here NEXT YEAR. Smoltz if he ever pitches again, won’t do so UNTIL next year. Glavine surely could pitch another year at his “current” level, if he chooses.
For the sake of getting Smoltz to the post-season, I was all for making a BIG MOVE to get there.
With Smoltz on the shelf, let’s hold onto our bullets (young guys) until the off-season, and make our moves for next year.
Not saying that we should give up. Just saying, that if we’re gonna come together and win this thing, it almost needs to happen with the current cast of characters, or some minor tweaks to the roster.
I think Acosta just gave up another smash…….DUCK!
By brent a.
June 4, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Will,
I’m thinking that this could be the worst day in Atlanta Braves history since the day Wohlers gave up the homer to Jim Leyritz in Game 4 of the ‘96 series.
Stay tuned …
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Mets up 3-0 after 3 innings. They currently have less losses than us….
The Braves are 7-2 vs. the Mets and 24-27 against all the rest.
By Scott from Fairburn
June 4, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Lose an Andruw, Gain an Andruw … that a boy Frenchy
By Me, Too
June 4, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Me, too — I’m a ringer, too!!
By j-school dropout
June 4, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
What a horrible day. We lose John and we lose a game that was clearly won. I bet the Phils win tonight. It’s going to be a long summer.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Chipper says the one player the Braves couldn’t afford to lose is John Smoltz. Does this mean we are throwing in the towel on ‘08?
He is right to an extent. I mean, Jurrjens and Reyes aren’t going to throw 200 innings and Tom Glavine most certainly won’t either. Leaving a heavy burden on Tim Hudson. The bullpen will get tired at some point this season. BC has had to use them A LOT.
By John Updike = jjs = LeTwan =
June 4, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
All your characters have something in common with Manny Acosta today…
Care to take a guess what that might be?
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Wow. I just saw Chipper’s quotes and I am in shock that he would say something like that. I mean, come on man. I’d like to think we weren’t banking the season on a 41 year old, right?
N8
Sorry man, I don’t want Glavine back next year. Nice pitcher for this season, but it’s time to turn the page. I also don’t think we should assume anything with Smoltz. Lets take him out of the equation for next season as well. I know you didn’t address the post to me, but I saw Glavine in 2009 and freaked. If we pencil him in as a 5th starter, maybe, but those constant 20 pitch innings are tough to take.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Hey, at least Acosta didn’t leave the fans twisting in the wind, LOL. Pow. Bang. Over.
Something to be said for that. :-)
By NCBravesFan
June 4, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
I am beginning to think the Braves need to go big on the pitching front. If they can swing a trade for a young, established innings-eater, they need to go for it in the next few weeks.
A tall order to pull off I know, but I am starting to doubt this team as it is currently put together.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
N8,
I said the same thing after the road trip. I’d much rather get Hampton, Kotsay, and Gonzalez back healthy; look to call-up Morton and Schafer after the all-star break; and perhaps swing a minor deal for a right-handed bat but I’m not sure I’m willing to trade a ton of top prospects for a star, not until the off-season when the glaring needs arise(#2 starter, middle of the order bat) and when more options become available. We’re a team in transition and I don’t think anyone knows yet if we are contenders or pretenders. If we start winning games on the road and are still in it later, my opinion might change. But right now, I have the wait and see approach. And I still think most GMs are like that now for good reason.
By AZBravoFan
June 4, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Hey, anyone want to throw a little blame McCann’s way? Surely he could see that Acosta’s slider was hanging and maybe they should stick with the fastball. I wasn’t paying close enough attention to see if Manny was shaking him off. Plenty of closers with worse stuff than Acosta’s have made it through a 9th inning throwing only fastballs. You gotta learn to improvise when you don’t have your best stuff. Maybe JS can impress that upon him now that he’s got a little extra time on his hands.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
McCann’s SSTLGOHHSBNCTD (Stats Since The Last Game Of His Hitting Streak But Not Counting That Day):
3-25 (.120) with one homer, one RBI, one double, 5 walks, and 4 strikeouts in 7 games plus the pinch-walk last night.
Ouch…
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
EFRIM, Chipper absolutely did not mean they were throwing in the towel, or that it was even an insurmountable loss. He was merely stating that he thought entering the season that the Braves couldn’t win without Smoltz. He’s been pleasantly surprised that they have “kept their heads above water” without Smoltz, and said this latest news that he won’t pitch at all is devastating.
That’s all. Chipper was actually in an upbeat mood this morning, even after the news, and NO ONE I talked to in the clubhouse, even after that dismal loss, was hanging their heads. No one.
Tough day at the ‘yard, all around. Smoltz announcement and a loss. But that’s it. They move on.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave
Your 5:05 to N8 made me think of how much work needs to be done this offseason. A lot of evaluations need to be made.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Stretch, your posts aren’t serious, right? You’re joking around, right?
No? You’re serious? Oh, OK.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Hey, anyone want to throw a little blame McCann’s way?
Uuuhhh……Maybe he shouldn’t have gone 0 for 4…?
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
I don’t think so. We’re going to lose some key guys but we’ll have the depth and the cap relief to fix these spots.
C-McCann 1B- ? 2B- Johnson SS- Escobar 3B- Jones LF- ? CF- Schafer RF- Francoeur
We should try to re-sign Kotsay to hold the spot in LF for Gorkys or Heyward but we’ll neeed a middle-of-the-lineup threat at either 1st or LF to off-set the loss of Tex.
SP- Hudson SP- Jurrjens SP- Reyes SP- Morton SP- ?
We could give Bennett/Campillo/James/Hanson a shot at the spot or try to re-sign Glavine but I think we can anticipate a move for a #2.
RP- Boyer RP- Campillo RP- Soriano RP- Gonzalez RP- Acosta RP- Bennett RP- Stockman RP- Ring
We could fill all bullpen spots but you know we’ll try to re-sign Ohman(fat chance)and look for a vet or something.
I don’t think the outlook is that dim.
By StingerSplash
June 4, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
N8,
I’ve been posing the use or overuse of the bullpen for a while. Right now, the Braves are going with two No. 5 starters - Campillo and Reyes; a bona fide No. 1 - Hudson; and well, Jurrjens and Glavine right now are both No. 3 kind of guys. I think Jurrjens eventually will be a staff ace or a No. 2 guy. He’s got the stuff and mental makeup to do it. But in the heat of July and August, the last thing the Braves need is another pitcher who is older than I am. I am older than the title track of one of U2’s regular show closers (that would be “40” and it is one of their best). I’m wondering, with the length of Boyer’s stint today, are the Braves looking at stretching him out to make him a starter, albeit an emergency one, at some point? Cox rarely asks relievers to go more than 2, unless it’s extra innings or everyone else is gassed.
By Quack Quack
June 4, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Coach
I see you got the clap. Not sure that’s something I would be admitting on the blog.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
DOB
I understand, I’m sure he knows this team can win without Smoltz. They have shown that ability to this point. Yes, tough day all around.
FloridaBrave
I don’t think the outlook is dim, never meant that, but there will be more work to be done than the last two offseasons. Finding a middle of the order bat isn’t going to be easy. And I would like to have another veteran starter in that rotation other than just Hudson.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
With all due respect to Chipper,and that’s plenty.This team doesn’t need it’s leaders saying the team is ”devastated” by the loss of Smoltz.It really came across (at least to me)like he has given up.Every team in baseball gets by without Smoltz so why does a team with vets like Jones and Glavine feel lost without one player.My point is the team needs real leadership out of the vets.If Jones feels helpless perhaps the team would be best ferved by him keeping it to himself.
By Me, Too
June 4, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
“3-25 (.120) with one homer, one RBI, one double, 5 walks, and 4 strikeouts in 7 games plus the pinch-walk last night.”
Yowza — looks like McMann needs the hair of the dog — perhaps McFann as well, for his “hit streak hangover”.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave
Heyward will be 19 next year, his talent is immense, but he really needs to stay in the minors for all of 2009. Hernandez needs more seasoning as well.
By Average Fan
June 4, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
I have been a Braves fan since 1954, and I will continue to be a Braves fan, but this is an average team, and any effort to spin it differently is wishful thinking. They have played barely above 500 for about two years now, I think, and they are what they are. If we had above average talent (other than Chipper) then we would not be where we are. In baseball, they play enough games to eliminate streaks and luck (good or bad). Every team’s fans like to think that they are more talented than their record, but that just isn’t true when you have so many games to prove it. I would have demoted Acosta to A ball in a heartbeat this afternoon, but it would be stupid. With the team they have on the field this season, the Braves are average, have been average, and will remain average. I wish it were different, but the record says 500. I’ll keep watching, and keep getting angry, but they just ain’t that good. There are lots and lots of individual statistics, and the folks on this blog love to use them, but ultimately there is only one that counts. Our team is average. Fun and infuriating to watch, but if you expect more than average, you’ll just get indigestion. This is NOT a team I will waste hope on.
By Dirk Diggler
June 4, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
My talent is also immense.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
218-214 in the last 432 games. 177-183 without the guy who just went out for the season.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
I know Heyward and Hernandez need more “seasoning.” That’s why I said it’d be nice if Kotsay can hold a spot in LF for ‘09 until one of them is ready in 2010.
And like I said, we’ll have some cap space to perhaps be bigger players in Free Agency if we need to be. Our depth in our system will allow us to pull of trades. It’s never easy to pull of a big deal but we have the resources necessary to get it done.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
A-Ville Ranger, I really think this is about different interpretations or meanings of the word “devastated.” I didn’t get the sense at all that Chipper meant it in a “we’re done, we’re toast” context, but rather along the lines of “this news is devastating, such a blow to a great teammate. But we move forward.”
By Beano
June 4, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
218-214 in the last 432 games.
Hey, that’s pretty mediocre. Aren’t managers usually fired for records like that. Especially if their teams are supposed to be pretty good?
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
Our team is average. Fun and infuriating to watch, but if you expect more than average, you’ll just get indigestion. This is NOT a team I will waste hope on.Average Fan
Good to know. No hope being wasted. You’re on the record as not wasting hope. Thank you.
By N8
June 4, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Efrim
“Sorry man, I don’t want Glavine back next year….. If we pencil him in as a 5th starter, maybe, but those constant 20 pitch innings are tough to take.”
That’s pretty much what I have in mind, if he WANTS to keep pitching.
‘I also don’t think we should assume anything with Smoltz.”
Agreed. Wren should move on as though he won’t be a factor. Surely there will ALWAYS be room for Smoltz on this team, if he’s healthy enough to contribute (whatever the role may be).
“I know you didn’t address the post to me, but I saw Glavine in 2009 and freaked.”
First of all, you may reply to ANY of my posts anytime you want, whether they’re addressed to you or not.
Second, what I really meant about Glavine, was that IF Wren wanted to construct NEXT YEAR’S team as a team to give the veterans “one more run”, is that if Glavine wanted to be included (or Wren and Bobby want to include HIM), I don’t see any reason that he wouldn’t be the solid (yet unspectacular) 5 inning pitcher at the end of our rotation next year, similarly to what he’s doing this year.
It wasn’t a statement of DESIRE to have him on the 25 man roster next year.
DOB has always stated that this team would NOT “fire-sale” or give up, as long as Smoltz and Chipper are here (and now Glavine as well).
I am/was fine with that. But now that Smoltz is out for the year, I’m not so sure that it should be “break the bank” time on the trade front.
As for Tex (I know you didn’t ask - but here goes anyhow), if the team falls out of contention, they should offer him a deal. With Smoltz going down (and possibly out for good), that will leave a LOT of money for Tex.
Is he the centerpiece of this organization for the next decade? I don’t know. But if we’re out of it, and he won’t sign long-term, time to trade the man come July.
I feel bad for Chipper, but if he stays healthy, he’s got MANY years ahead of him. Not just 1 or 2 like Smoltz and Glavine…if that.
By uh Chipper er um Jones
June 4, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Uh, I didn’t um say ‘devastated’. I uh don’t know what that um means.
I uh said I was um dehydrated. Got any uh gatorade?
By Coach (Braves in 2008 to the playoffs)
June 4, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, that isn’t good, not good at all.
By Average Fan
June 4, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Braveheart, I don’t have access to that type of statistical information. Which just proves the case - even with all the player changes, coaching changes, front office changes, off-season player development, solid farm system, drafts, injuries, and great individual seasons, for almost the past three years this TEAM is four games over 500. I wish it was the 90’s again, and I’ll keep cheering and groaning, but this TEAM has not proven it has the talent, pipeline, character, chemistry (or whatever) to rise above 500 baseball. Other then saying everybody has to play better (which they have proven they CANNOT do over an extended period of time) the real question is “what ELSE can we try?”
By Stat Man
June 4, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Average fan
are you a mean fan or a median fan? or maybe a mode.
I hope to god you’re not a geometric mean fan.
By KC
June 4, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
N8: “So let me get this right. Cox recalls Stockman as to STILL have 13 pitchers on the roster, yet he leaves Acosta out there to get hammered and blow the game? Unreal.”
N8, get a grip man. You couldn’t be more wrong, and I’ll tell you why.
You’re way off base because… Well… um…
I mean, the thing is…
Gee, ya know what? As much as I would like to be able to defend BC, you’re pretty damned right about this! Acosta had no business pitching to Ramirez.
Stockman should have been the guy, but he wasn’t even warming up! BUDDY CARLYLE was warming!!! BUDDY CARLYLE!!!!
Asinine!!!
By my count, there are at least 2 or 3 losses that should be hung directly on Bobby Cox:
Today’s game.
That game against the Rockies in which we pitched to Holiday in the 9th with first base open…
And it seems like there was a third, but I just can’t recall it right now.
Yikes.
By Im
June 4, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone freaking out so much when we’re only a few games out of first. We had one of the best pitching staffs in the league when smoltz was out and are adding soriano and gonzalez to that…so why the panic?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
It’s kind of funny that Chipper gets killed for saying devastated but Glavine gets killed for not saying devastated. Chipper should have said it was disappointing, not devastating. :)
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry. I got the Smoltz portion of that wrong.
The Braves are 218-214 since August 10, 2005.
They were 48-33 in the games Smoltz appeared in since August 10, 2005.
That makes the Braves 170-181 since August 10, 2005 without Smoltz.
By Bobby C.
June 4, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
I would like to congratulate the Marlins — not for winning today, but for playing an extraordinary game. I would like to recognize them for all they have accomplished.
The question is: Where do I go from here? I will figure that out in the coming days, but I will be making no decisions tonight.
By kirknga
June 4, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave ncscoots
I’m not seeing the innings from the starters we have now. Morton is still in the minors for s reason, and when he does get a chance I wouldn’t count on him going deep into the game.
So if what you got isn’t giving you what you need then you have to add somebody else. I’m not saying what we have is trash…they’re certainly not…but they also don’t give enough innings.
I’m sure there may be someone other than Blanton, but we need someone to give quality innings(actually we could use two). And it’s going to cost. From what our folks who keep an eye on the minors for us say, the Braves have a deep farm system. Lets use it.
By McFann
June 4, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
All I need is for Mr. Soto to not hit a double and/or homer tonight. And tomorrow night, McCann needs a multi-hit game.
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
Chipper should have said that he didn’t care about that ol’ trifling bum what done back-stabb’d ‘im last year.
That’s being a leader.
Or something.
By Average Fan
June 4, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks, I deserved that. I am just annoyed about today’s game, and about the fact that there have been three years of “today’s games” and that it looks like the rest of the season will be “today’s games”. I’m probably trying to talk myself out of taking it so seriously. To Stat Man, today I’m just mean spirited. Again, I apologize.
By GeorgetownKid
June 4, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien,
Despite Accosta’s terrible performance today, he is still a very intriguing young player with a 97mph fastball and a nice slider.
Therefore, given Boyer’s strong play and the return of Soriano and Gonzalez, could Accosta be a potential trade piece?
I know such an idea seems counter-intuitive, given the fact that the Braves have so many injured pitchers. But the Braves have such depth in the bullpen (assuming a healthy Soriano and Gonzalez) that we should at least consider the notion.
We got a lot in return for Asciano and Devine, that we could get a tremendous return for Accosta, who is a more promising talent.
I know that many bloggers like floating trade ideas that involve getting Cy Young callibre pitchers in exchange for Scott Thorman. But, as one usually has to part with talent in order to receive talent in return, we will probably have to part with someone of value if we wish to receive an impact player in a trade.
As such, why not dangle Accosta?
By kirknga
June 4, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Folks let’s not give up on Acosta yet. He’s shown that he can pitch at this level. We are willing to give the young starters chance after chance after chance but not the young relievers?
It seems that we (me included) get all emotionally invested in the prospects and then, after a short time, the bloom wears of and it’s “throw tha bum out!”
I feel for Morton when he arrives. If he is not the immediate inning-eating stud the Braves need, then the glow of potential when wear away , the team will still have that need, and we’ll once again be held hostage to another player without a proven major league track record.
By OverlorDDDay
June 4, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
By my count, there are at least 2 or 3 losses that should be hung directly on Bobby Cox:
Today’s game.
That game against the Rockies in which we pitched to Holiday in the 9th with first base open…
And it seems like there was a third, but I just can’t recall it right now. KC
With all due respect… Do you know how to count to 20? Is 3 the best you can do? I can help you remember more than 3 my friend.
Seriously, I was just joking, but come on KC, 3 is not even half of what he has cost the team.
By Bobbymahlon
June 4, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
DOB : I like all your stats on Escobar but lets not forget the way he is playing defense. To me he is making plays that only the best can make and making them look easy at that. All your article talks about is hitting and there is more than that when you about the whole package which he has. I do like your blogs though.
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
Hmm…this Fultz story is a little fishy. This sounds interesting for reasons that, at this moment, I cannot fully comprehend.
Big news day for the ol’ ballclub, ain’t it?
By Mike in LA
June 4, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
The Braves are not in as bad a shape as it appears. Yes, this loss today sucks but if they win tomorrow and the Phillies lose either today or tomorrow the Braves would be in position to be within 2.5 games of the Phillies assuming we take 2 of 3 from them. Yes thats a lot of assumptions but they’re playing well at home and the pitching matchups are favorable for the next 4 games. I don’t think wining 3 out of the next 4 games is a stretch. BTW, by my count the Braves are 0-5 in games in which chipper has sat. Was there anyone else that was wishing that Bobby would pinch hit Chipper for Francoeur to try and tie the ballgame?
By Van Bravesfan
June 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Turn up your radio and let me hear the song
Switch on your electric light
Then we can get down to what is really wrong
Then we can get down to what is really wrong
what is really wrong, really wrong
really wrong, really wrong…
By N8
June 4, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
“218-214 in the last 432 games. 177-183 without the guy who just went out for the season.”
So, what you’re trying to tell me (us), is that the Great Bobby Cox has been under .500 in the past 360 games that have NOT been started by Smoltz?
Got me to thinking.
Since 1991 through today, under Bobby, the Braves are 1603-1121 (.588 winning percentage). Certainly respectable.
Since 1991 in games started by Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux, the Braves are 748-441 (.629 winning percentage).
Since 1991 in games NOT started by the three HOF pitchers, the Braves are 855-680 (.557). Again. Certainly respectable.
But I don’t think it’s too hard to determine where the Braves “bread was buttered” from 1991 to present day.
While Bobby has done some of his best managing in seasons since the Big 3 have separated (including 2000 when they wen 95-67 with Smoltz out for the year).
But especially 2004, when NONE of the “big 3” were in the rotation (however Smoltz was the closer), and the team wen 96-66.
So certainly, Cox deserves SOME credit.
But clearly, just like us, Cox was “along for the ride” when the BIG THREE were in their prime. My guess, as humble and down to earth as Cox seems, he’d probably admit to that as well.
The one thing that stood out as a bit of a shock to me, was that from 1993 (Maddux’s first year in a Braves uniform), until 2002 (Glavines last year, during his first stretch with the Braves) is the following.
In Maddux’s starts, the Braves were 212-115 (.648).
In Glavine’s starts, the Braves were 215-218 (.645).
Maddux was so damn dominant in that 10 years, that Glavine was pretty much over-shadowed while he was here.
Just goes to show how GOOD the Braves had, having 2 legitimate ACES on their staff at the same time. Then “throw in” Smoltz in the 3-spot for good measure.
As Archie and Edith would say……“Those were the days…..”
By N8
June 4, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Armageddon is coming ladies and gentlemen…..KC agrees with me, in a negative manner towards Bobby.
“Run for the hills everybody, there’s a giant sh!t-cloud coming!!!”
Just giving you crap KC. Funny post, my man.
By SNIPER-69
June 4, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Efrim, you noted earlier that the braves had a winning record against the Mets and a losing one against everyone else. We all know Cox has this hard on for the Mets and gets his team up to play them. It’s been that way as long as I can remember. The brave did take an early season lead last year but both teams ended up even by end of the season if my memory serves me correctly.
By N8
June 4, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Obviously my “t” key wasn’t working well in my 7:34 post.
And the Braves record from 1993 to 2002 in Glavine’ starts should read 215-118 (not 215-218). Amazing how much difference a 2 there makes, huh?
By Michael
June 4, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Dave O’Brien
As a beat writer…give us your feelings of what it felt like when you first found out about the Press Conference…what it was like while you were in the conference and the buzz going on before and during the conference. I’m just fascinated by all of this and the feelings and emotions going through you during all this. Thanks.
By KC
June 4, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Ya know, I have to say that I’m glad Smoltz had already announced he wouldn’t return to the rotation this year. I think it eased the sting of today’s announcement.
Losing Smoltz from the rotation was tremendous blow. I would have been nice to have him in the bullpen… but IF Soriano can stay off the shelf, and Gonzalez’s comeback is successful, Smoltz really isn’t needed in the pen.
Here’s hoping for another season or two from Smoltz after this year. Sure would like to see the man go out on his own terms.
Then again… Smoltz pitching until his arm falls off would be a fitting end, wouldn’t it? “Pitching until his arm falls off” pretty much sums up Smoltzy. Greatness personified.
To quote a wise man…
He wakes up in the morning and pi$$es excellence.
By Bill
June 4, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
I agree the Braves don’t need to trade anymore prospects. They screwed up last year with the trade for Tex. Now is the time to unload him and get back some young players. Let’s face it, this team is going nowhere. The team needs to have a complete change.
By Choppinmama
June 4, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
jbutler- that vent is just disgraceful, isn’t it? It’s even more disgraceful that somebody, anybody hasn’t already changed it!
John Updike- thanks for blogging today. Kinda makes today’s rantings a little more intellectual. Greetings to your ghost writer too! ;)
Et tu, Manny?
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Sniper
They do get up to play the Mets, but that isn’t a bad thing. The rest of the NL gets up to play the Mets because they can’t stand Jose Reyes and that idiotic dance he puts on everytime they score a run. Tough team to like. Tough team to not “get up to play”. You know it, Keith and Ron know it, and so do all of the people on Metsblog.
By KC
June 4, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
N8: I’ve really soured on BC’s judgment over the past couple of years. I think it started last season in a game against the Phillies…
I was at that game with the one esteemed Grinch, and Bobby exercised the following wisdom:
The Braves were up by one run in 6th or 7th inning. There were either one or two outs… can’t remember (but it doesn’t matter).
Chuck James was on the mound, and was obviously worn out as his pitch count was really mounting.
With a runner on 2nd, Bobby decided to let an exhausted (extreme) fly ball pitcher pitch to Ryan Howard with 1st base open.
When I saw that James wasn’t walking Howard, my head started spinning. I said out loud “This is going to end badly”.
It did.
Bobby Cox’s greatness has always been in his leadership, not in his in-game strategy. But the past couple of years I’ve found myself wondering… has BC’s judgment always been like this (and I just never noticed), or is this a recent development?
Cuz he’s been making some pretty bad decisions over the past couple of seasons.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
N8
Re: 6:29 post. I feel ya on basically everything you said. But I say we keep Tex, go for it, and take the draft picks. Think of what the Mets have this year? 18, 23 and 33? You can do a lot of damage with those picks, especially with as good a scouting department as we have. I know that is thinking of the future and thos eplayers we select next year may not reach th majors until 2013, but still, look at what having a farm system has done for the Red Empire(Red Sox). They have an embarassment of riches.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
GeorgetownKid, why would you dangle Acosta, who’s been exceptional more often than not this season, throws in the upper 90s, and is cheap for at least 2-3 more seasons, and more than that if he’s not closing?
I don’t think Braves are going to make a move for a starter anytime soon, because the ones available aren’t enough of an upgrade in the Braves’ view to make it worth giving up all the young talent that teams want in return.
They could get a guy like Maddux, who’d give you five quality innings. But the fact is, Braves need an innings-eater if they go get another starter.
Also, the Braves really like their bullpen, even without Smoltz.
To me, getting another OF bat, if available makes more sense between now and July 31, preferably sooner than later. That is, unless there are even more pitching injuries. As it is right now, Braves have a kid (Morton) very close to being ready, if he’s not already, to come up if they have to fill another hole.
By Coach (Braves in 2008 to the playoffs)
June 4, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Crazy stat of the day.
In 74 innings of work so far this season, Charlie Morton has yet to give up ONE SINGLE HR to the opposition.
By Clueless
June 4, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Aww man!! What happened — did Smoltz blow another loss? :(
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
N8, I’m actually not ragging on Bobby Cox by showing the 218-214 stats. It’s more of a commentary on the faceless corporate cheapskates that owned the team. The evils of AOL/TW have finally been seen in the mediocre product put out on the field in the last 432 games. Really, it would have been seen starting in 2004 if Cox and Schuerholz didn’t prevent it as long as they could. The financial handcuffs have finally taken their toll.
Bobby has his shortcomings, makes some very curious decisions but I don’t think his in-game strategy is any worse or any better than any other manager. Many of the decisions people kill him for are damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t decisions. The perspective on the wisdom of those decisions is too often left to fate and the whims of highly subjective critics.
But clearly, just like us, Cox was “along for the ride” when the BIG THREE were in their prime. My guess, as humble and down to earth as Cox seems, he’d probably admit to that as well.
My guess is that Cox wouldn’t and shouldn’t admit to it. He would probably say motherfocker how the hell do you think we got those Hall of Famers?
Cox traded for Smoltz when he was a minor leaguer with mediocre minor league stats, made sure the organization had the patience needed to develop Glavine when he was nothing as a major league pitcher, drafted Avery, drafted Chipper, and created the clubhouse culture needed to get Maddux for less money than was offered by the Yankees.
In addition, he convinced Chipper, Andruw and Smoltz to take hometown discounts because of their love for Bobby. If the Cox clubhouse culture was not what it was, the last of the great Braves to depart would have been Maddux at the end of 2003. AOL/TW would not have shed a tear about that.
Bobby Cox shouldn’t be mistaken for the jockey along for the ride on the Big Brown that was Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Avery, Andruw and Chipper. Cox was the owner who bought and groomed the Big Brown that was those guys.
By Choppinmama
June 4, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
DOB- don’t tell us that Frank is taking the fall for not conditioning Smotzie’s arm into pitchable condition? Or, will we be hearing his name in the ongoing PED inquiry?
OK, we read your story. What’s the real story?
Poor Frank, he was a bright spot at Baseball 101 for the past couple of years. I won’t forget seeing his son imitate Julio at bat - rear end stuck out really far!
By Dadgum
June 4, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
John Smoltz is a class act. One of the best competitors in the game year end and year out. Unfortunately baseball leaves all of us at some point. The game is simply too physically demanding in terms of athleticism and reflexes to play past a certain point or age. Smoltz has been on borrowed time and we all know it.
In 5 years after he retires John Smoltz will enter the HOF…1st ballot. Today was a sad day for sure but given that it is baseball it is merely a passing of the torch. Smoltz has been an icon in the pitching community and it is sad to see him go out on a surgeon’s knife. I mean shouldn’t the baseball gods give him a retirement tour…ala Ripken.
The Braves will be fine ater a few trades and free agent signings. Do they roll with what they have this year or make moves to solidify a playoff berth now. The Stockman move today was headscratching. Morton was the better move that wasn’t made. The Braves simply don’t have the dominant front end starters and absolutely nobody that strikes fear in an opposing team. In reality that is what will hurt the Braves as the season wears on.
I wish John Smoltz luck and a speedy recovery so he can enjoy the rest of his life. Oh yeah…he may say he wants to continue after the surgery but he won’t. Leave an opening we all know won’t happen…even if it is him. Pitching is too critical to leave to farewell tours. Smoltz kows it and with his class he will be the first to let it go. He won’t saddle the Braves with that decision.
I see a scenario where the Braves will have Smoltz, Glavine, Maddox retire simultaneously as Braves in ‘09. How fitting. Hampton will obviously be gone as well. It has been a great ride…history setting.
Rock on….remembering the best trade ever by the Braves—Doyle Alexander to Detroit for a kid named John Smoltz.
By GeorgetownKid
June 4, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien,
The reasons you just listed are precisely why Accosta would fetch a king’s ransom in a trade.
Ideally, we would get a front-line starter in exchange for Greg Norton, but I don’t believe such a scenario to be realistic. Bullpen depth is a strength of ours, so it would seem logical to me to deal from that position.
Of course, it was merely a hypothetical idea. I greatly appreciate you writing me back!
By Will
June 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Average Fan, I totally understand where you are coming from. I hate to say it, but this team once again appears to be the definition of a .500 baseball team. Was i happy to see the last two nights wins? yes. Does it mean a damn thing til they win some road games? absolutely not! I also understand your comment about not wasting hope. It doesnt remotely mean you dont care, but a fan just cannot get worked up over and over when the same BS keeps happening. This games 9th inning happens 5 plus years ago and i am probably chucking something across the room. Today after the 2nd home run i literally laughed. What else can you do! I am still a die hard Braves fan, but as an honest sports fan in general I once again see nothing special in this team. Hope I am proven dead wrong, but i highly doubt it.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Good post, DOB. I don’t think people realize the price for pitching. And the guy’s who will come cheapER- like a Maddux- aren’t really better than what we have. Would it be nice to have another top of the rotation guy? Sure, but at what cost? We have a ton of depth and we’ll eventually get more innings from Campillo, once he gets stretched out, and Reyes, as he continues to develop.
I’m fine with our bullpen too. After a bad game, people lose sight of the big picture. The big picture is that Acosta has been phenomenal for us all year. Our entire bullpen has been- heck- just yesterday they threw 5 scoreless innings.
As for the outfield, I agree that’s where the move could be made. But couldn’t we apply the same logic we used for the pitching staff- that we could fill a hole by calling up Morton- in the outfield, were a call-up of Schafer would call a hole? It’s more risky as Schafer’s is as far long in his development as Morton, but it’s cost effective. We can either trade a great prospect or two for a starting LF(like Nady), or we can throw a low-level prospect at a team for a guy who can mash lefties but doesn’t get a ton of ABs- like Juan Rivera or Marcus Thames- and stick them in a platoon with Schafer(Bobby has shown he loves platooning young guys). I’d believe we’d get enough production out of a Schafer(after another month in AA)/Thames platoon and it wouldn’t cost us as much in terms of prospects as it would an everyday guy like Nady.
By J.D.
June 4, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
well this frank fultz story certainly seems fishy-it would make me think an incident occured that didnt please wren and co. too much
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
To me, getting another OF bat, if available makes more sense between now and July 31, preferably sooner than later. That is, unless there are even more pitching injuries. As it is right now, Braves have a kid (Morton) very close to being ready, if he’s not already, to come up if they have to fill another hole.
If Francoeur turns it up, Tex starts to hit left handed pitching and Kotsay gets healthy, then I’m not sure getting a corner bat is the need. I’m worried about the fact that Jurrjens and Reyes are needed to go deep into games at such a young age. Not to mention that the bullpe has already pitched a lot of innings. I understand that Blanton or whatever innings eater is too expensive, but I’m not sure what shape the pen will be in when August comes around. But like you said, maybe Morton comes up, pitches well and sticks in the rotation.
By Saltywoody
June 4, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Wow. Some seriously radical responses to everything here today. And not radical in a Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure sense.
I’d like to offer my two cents (or 1 1/2 cents, factoring in inflation and gas).
Smoltzie’s loss IS devastating. I actually think Chipper’s verbiage is correct. All the alarmists on here would take that to mean that the Braves are giving up on the season. I get that. But, as DOB and a few others have pointed out, devastating appears more to mean that it’s a tough pill to swallow because Smoltz is such a great competitor and a guy you always pull for. I think, more than anything else, it is devastating because you know that this might have been Smoltz’s last chance at postseason glory, considering everyone will be a year older and we’ll probably be Tex-less next season. I’m sure everyone agrees that that would have been a much more becoming end to such an outstanding athlete, competitor, and human being…if an end is what this actually is. It is devastating in the sense that Smoltz, above almost anyone else, deserved that last shot at glory that’s now been cut short, despite his very best efforts.
Acosta is not our closer. He was thrust into the role at a young age because his stuff is that good. But, I would guess he doesn’t have the mental makeup to handle the job full-time, yet. As today proves. So don’t clamor for him to be traded or say he sucks or whatever else. He had a bad day, as young guys do. I’d still take him any day and twice on Sundays over, ohhhhh, let’s say Octavio Dotel? Or, dare I mention the name…CHRIS RESOP?!??!
I love all the Glavine bashing. And I say that with my tongue buried in my cheek. Are you guys seriously complaining about a 42 year-old who we paid a modest salary to, is pitching like a solid number 3 (which we knew he would be), has actually pitched past 5 innings more often than not, AND we stole away from our pitching-challenged divison rivals? Come on, guys. The fact that we took Glavine away from the Mets is, by itself, worth the money we paid. How much do you think they’d LOVE to have him in their rotation this year at 8 million? They’d probably pay twice that. Plus, he’s been great for us. Think Glavine or Chuck James and then try to make the same statements. You can’t.
Jeff Bennett. I saw this guy throw last night for the first time in a while. 90-95 mph, with movement, and a pretty decent hook to go along with it. Remind me again why this guy is not starting? I know he’s valuable in long relief. The trouble is, Bobby’s not using him for that. He’s using him for an inning or two, late in the game. Plus, for as good as Campillo’s been, my guess is there’s a reason the Mariners DFAd him and he never pitched in the majors before that. I’m not trying to say he’ll be awful…heck, I hope we caught lightning in a bottle and he’s Maddux the rest of the season. I just feel like it’s inevitable that he’ll struggle and be a little more true to his pitching history…and that, in the meantime, Bennett could really soldify the rotation.
Apologies, in advance, to those who will chastise me for the long post.
By Will
June 4, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
On the topic of all the blog proposed trades I actually really hope the Braves stand pat and if they win they win if not so be it. I wanna preface this next statement by saying if Braves had the chance to do the Mark Tex trade again i still think they made the right decision. That being said how has that really worked out for them. What have they accomplished by selling off several good prospects for a guy who is pretty much guaranteed to leave. Organizations stay .500 teams by making the mistake year after year thinking that they are contenders when they are not. The Braves cannot afford to make any more Mark Tex type trades, they have to win or lose with pretty much what they have now.
By Bruce's Pearl
June 4, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
BTW Schafer just homered in Mississippi.
By Choppinmama
June 4, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Why do those ESPN bums keep remarking “…….Smoltz will enter the HOF, but not on the 1st ballot.” I just heard it for the third time in 2 days.
Why in the world would anybody NOT vote for him on the 1st ballot? Maybe a few opponents trying to get even and make him wait a couple of years? Disgraceful.
Let’s hope the majority of the HOF committee can recognize greatness in a timely fashion = 1st ballot!
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Schafer had an opposite field homer for Mississippi.
Scott Diamond dazzled again for Myrtle Beach and Tyler Flowers has a pair of hits.
Cole Rohrbough pitched six innings for Rome without giving up an earned run. Jason Heyward added two hits and Cody Johnson crushed a home run.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody, outstanding post.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave, Schafer could indeed feel a hole. Just give him a few weeks, see what he does. That’s why I characterized this current period, maybe through late June or so, as a “settling-in” period for many teams to see exactly what they’ve got, what guys they’ve got coming back from injuries, where they stand in races, etc.
Braves will be looking closely at Schafer, for sure.
By the way, Kotsay told me today he’d made a little progress the past couple days with his back.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Cole Rohrbough pitched a good game against one of the most stacked offensive teams in the Sally league. 6 IP, 3 Hits, 0 ER, 3 BB’s, and 5 K’s. On a Baseball America chat today, Ben Badler said Heyward and Rohrbough were his favorite Braves prospects.
By FloridaBrave
June 4, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Right, I understand a decision won’t be made for another month and the Braves will sniff around the trade market if Schafer is indeed not ready.
That sucks with Kotsay though. I don’t think any of us were naive enough to think he’d make it through the entire season healthy but he was playing extremely well and it’s starting to sound bad. Like I said before, he’s the type of player you find on championship teams- a throwback who will do anything it takes to win. I’ve really come to love watching him play.
BTW, I asked this earlier but what’s the Braves’ record now without Chipper? 0-7?
By Will
June 4, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama, One of the things that might cause Smoltz not to get in first ballot is if Glavine and Maddux are in the same class. That is ideal to us Braves fans, but hall of fame voters alot of them are pompous idiots. They like to dictate things a little too much. It is a distinct possibilty Smoltz is not first ballot. In my book he is, but its not up to me.
By OverlorDDDay
June 4, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama dont you get it? everybody hates the braves, specially cities like NY. They just act as if braves just dont exist. Thats all. Smoltz will get in in the 1st ballot.
He is considered the greatest postseason big game pitcher ever. That should be enough. He leads postseason K alltime. Go check his postseason stats and you will get your sleep back.
SMOLTZ POSTSEASON RANKING
By texmex
June 4, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
atleast cincy is getting it done against philly tonight - two nothing in the ninth with the bases loaded and no out
By Methinks He Doth Protest Too Much
June 4, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
DOB, For someone who’s asserted time and time and time again that you have no rooting interest in the Braves, you sure seem to get overly annoyed — with the doom-and-gloom posters while always agreeing with the sunny optimists.
In cold, stark reality, the Braves are a .500 team since 2005 and took a major hit today toward remaining even mediocre.
And great as Smoltz is/was, Overlord, he doesn’t match Bob Gibson for postseason dominance.
By No 1
June 4, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
DOB said, “FloridaBrave, Schafer could indeed feel a hole.”
Snuk snuk snuk, sniffle, chorttle, pnnffffttt! Woo-hoo!
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Before today, I haven’t been someone who demands that the Braves sign Tex. Hell, I can’t stand Tex and have been ragging on him through the first 60 games. But with Smoltz perhaps done, I think it is imperative that the Braves sign Tex to a 6 or 7 year contract at $22 mil or so per year.
Smoltz basically gave you a 40 run difference every year over an average starting pitcher.
Tex gives you a 40 runs created difference over the average hitter.
You can’t lose both and you will need Tex to offset what is lost when an average starting pitcher replaces Smoltz since it does not seem that there are many quality starting pitchers who are available and at the right cost in age, years, money and prospects.
Losing 80 runs of run differential is gonna be really hard to replace with what will be available.
I don’t like signing Tex to all that money for all those years but the Braves just had a gun put to their head with this Smoltz news.
Could 7 years, $150 mil get it done with Tex? If so, sign him. If not, let it be known that it was offered and that he is a bum for not signing. Not that he or Boras will care.
By Saltywoody
June 4, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
I had never gone here before, but it’s worth a look:
http://www.johnsmoltz.org/
Pretty funny site, especially in contrast to someone like Curt Schilling’s self-aggrandizing blog.
I guess, in a way, it’s exactly what I’d expect from Smoltzie. A little bit old school (probably in the same way DOB’s story of Smoltz in a heinous preseason outfit walking around the clubhouse describes him-someone help me out with that link), a little bit behind the times (I mean that only in terms of style, which I would apply to Smoltz’s general lack of gold chains, electrical wire necklaces, flashy uniform alterations, etc.), and TOTALLY centered around his charities and beliefs and causes.
Actually, I freakin love this site. It’s just so humble and so Smoltzian to me. Under interests, he lists “Golf and teaching and coaching basketball.” Not “I’m a scratch golfer who aspires to be a pro.” Or “I’m a hero for coaching basketball and I really relate to the everyman.” Just Golf and Basketball. And, as an added bonus, no pontificating in a blog about his elevated status within the game or anything like that.
Man, the more you think about it, the more it occurs to you just how great Smoltz was. Certainly hope he’s a first ballot HOFamer. He deserves no less.
By Random
June 4, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
Good stuff, Braveheart — thanks.
By Saltywoody
June 4, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Oh, and if you haven’t? Take a chance, in honor of Smoltzie, to go back and look at his career numbers. 1996 in particular, along with some of the numbers he put up as a closer. Just outstanding.
By OverlorDDDay
June 4, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Come on guys…… this team is more than smoltz. Id be worried if chipper goes down. Lets hope for the best. Braves have enough pitching to cover for smoltzs loss. Ill keep mentioning it……. Hampton will be back and will play the role of a big midseason acquisition. And if Morton is called, things might get even better.
But pitching is not our problem. It is clear to almost everybody in here, our deficit is OF power. But as TEX has been heating up, he might be enough. I like our team right now as it is. We still have Gonzo, Prado, Kotsay and Diaz on the shelf. the first 3 will be playing before month ends. Just get rid of Miller please!!!!!!
By uga-brave
June 4, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
braveheart,
your 8:21 is right on the money. there were holes on this team before the injury bug.
hope is not a strategy. i say that in regards to kotsay, hampton, and and to some extent smoltz.
no money was spent to upgrade the outfield. hope that frenchy gets better, hope that diaz proves to be a everday left fielder, hope kotsay stays healthy.
pretty far departure from that jones, jones, and sheffield outfield, in 2004.
braves are now at a point where they cannot miss on a talent cycle.
like many have said this is a decent team, not great, not bad, but just good enough to keep you angry.
By Braves Fan in PA
June 4, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/06/04/fultzweb_0605.html
Any chance this has something to do with Jordan Schafer?
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, for the record, I think seven years, $150 mill is about what the market is going to be for Tex. Not anywhere near the $200 mill figure that a few writers around the country were throwing out last year and during the offseason.
By Efrim
June 4, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Tex is going to sign try to get the best contract possible. I can’t knock him for that. Ultimately I don’t think the Braves can outspend the Mets or Yankees. I thought that just maybe there was a chance he wouldn’t end up in the Bronx, but I don’t think they have interest in Sabathia, who has hurt his stock with his performance this season.
By monty
June 4, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
I for one would like to see Smoltz make a comeback effort because I am selfish. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him pitch for 17 years and at some point to not see John out there ever again would be like losing a friend of sorts. I have a golfing buddy 30 years my senior who I have played with for 18 years but he is now 81 and old age has claimed his once formidable skills. I miss the way it used to be. But time marches on and it waits for no man, for Smoltz to rehab and attempt a comeback and if he blew his arm out again what would the consequences be? Another year of rehab? Being unable to play golf anywhere up to his former level? A lifetime of potential pain? And all for what, one more year of pitching potentially? Smoltz has nothing left to prove to anyone except maybe himself. Is this the last challenge that will give him motivation to prove all the naysayers wrong again? It will be interesting to see.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
FLORIDA BRAVE: They’re 31-24 when Chipper plays, 0-5 when he doesn’t.
METHINKS: No, I concur with rational, logical fans, and you’d prefer I jump on the doom-and-gloom, fire-‘em-all bandwagon after each loss, as if it were going to take 100-110 wins to get into the postseason instead of the 85-88 I think it’ll take in a division where every team is flawed.
Doth Protest that.
By David O'Brien
June 4, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan in Pa: I can assure you the Fultz thing has nothing to do with Jordan Schafer. Or with Smoltz’s health (someone else asked that earlier).
By Shamus Thacker
June 4, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Quote by: OverlorDDDay Hampton will be back and will play the role of a big midseason acquisition.
I believe in a generous dose of optimism. Optimism, not insanity…
O-DDDay, if your prediction comes to pass, I’ll flang myself at top speed onto a dry, sandpaper, slip-n’-slide, butt nekkid.
By Will
June 4, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Couple things i wanna say about John Smoltz cause i wish him the best, but am not sure if i expect him to pitch again. I will never ever ever forget his near no-hitter in 1996 when Ryan Klesko clearly made an error on a Tony Gwynn flyball and they scored it a double. That was a travesty and i still to this day believe that would have been a no-hitter. I was only 14 then, but i remember how dominant he was that day. His whole 1996 season was absolutely phehomenal i have never seen a Brave in my lifetime win 24 games like he did. He clinched the division in 1991, he clinched the NLCS in 1991 and in my book he clinched the World Series in 1991 regardless of the fact the team couldnt get him a single run of support (thank you Lonnie Smith) He got out of a couple huge jams in save situations against the Astros in NLDS play. The guy was/is an absolute gamer and that is sickening that he is out for the year and probably his career. hope he makes it back!!
By N8
June 4, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody
“I just feel like it’s inevitable that he’ll struggle and be a little more true to his pitching history…and that, in the meantime, Bennett could really soldify the rotation.”
While I too have wondered why Bennett is not in the rotation, or been given the chance to do something there.
But I will GLADLY take Campillo’s “pitching history” if that’s what ends up happening.
In the minors, he was 16-10 with 268 IP, and a 3.11 ERA, with 63 BB’s to go with 180 K’s.
This year for the Braves, as a starter he has made 4 starts.
In those 4 starts (19 IP), 2.37 ERA, with 1 BB and 19 K’s (doesn’t get much better than that folks).
As a reliever, he’s pitched in 13 games (21.1 IP), 1.27 ERA, with 5 BB’s and 17 K’s.
I’ll take that in the 5th starter’s spot ANY day of the week.
As for Bennett this year?
He’s made 3 starts (14.2 IP), with a 3.07 ERA 6 BB’s and 11 K’s.
As a reliever, he’s pitched in 25 games (32.2 IP), 3.31 ERA with 16 BB’s and 23 K’s.
Barring Campillo’s blisters acting up, or him COMPLETELY falling on his face (he gave up 4 runs in 4 IP in his last outing - Tim Hudson has given up 4 or more ER in 5 IP or less 3 times this year - so I’m not panicking…..yet), Bobby seems to have the right guys (Campillo and Bennett) in the right roles….for now.
Braveheart
I actually wasn’t ragging on Bobby as much as that post seemed like I was.
Actually, I expected the “numbers” in the games NOT started by those three to be worse than it was.
The “X” factor, was that early in Smoltz’ career during the “run”, (91 up to his Cy Young season of 96), the Braves literally played .500 ball in Smoltz’ starts.
I had forgotten how Jeckyl & Hyde Smoltz was in the early 90’s (go 12-2 in one half & follow it up by going 3-11), ending up with 15 wins but almost as many losses.
It was his post-season in the early 90’s that made him stand out. His regular season dominance came later.
In fact, other than his 1996 Cy Young season, one could argue his BEST years of starting (regular season), have come SINCE returning to the rotation.
As for Bobby being responsible for trading for Smoltz and drafting Glavine? If you’ve followed ANYTHING I’ve ever said about Bobby, you’d know that I give him GREAT PRAISE as the GM (more so than JS) for building this team. Even the “Roberts” of the world, have to give him credit for that.
But let’s not forget that Maddux won a Cy Young award BEFORE becoming a Brave. Maybe he came here to play for Bobby. Maybe he came here because they offered the next biggest contract (than the one he turned down from the Yankees). Maybe he just wanted to be in a rotation with Glavine, Smoltz and Avery?
But I give Bobby ZERO credit for Maddux’s success. Glavine and Smoltz? He responsible for the early stages of their careers, for sure. After that? It’s up for debate.
Just like people thought the world was flat, people also thought Leo was responsible for all the pitching success, yet Roger McDowell has the NL’s leading staff as far as ERA goes. So do the math.
One thing that can either go towards Bobby or the “Big Three HOF pitchers”, (or a little of both), is what those three did for the 4th and 5th starters in the rotation, as far as taking pressure off of them.
Millwood DOMINATED as the 4th and 5th starter for the Braves (75-46 with a 3.72 ERA), and has gone 61-58, with a 4.24 ERA since leaving Atlanta.
Better Teams in Atlanta? Sure. But clearly he hasn’t been the “Ace” he looked like he could be, while pitching 4th in our rotation.
What ever did happen to Denny Neagle, again?
Other guys COULDN’T handle being part of that rotation, and playing keep up. Schmidt comes to mind. Marquis comes to mind.
Maybe it was a Leo issue with Marquis. Maybe not.
Anyhow. I have no problem agreeing that Cox is a good leader of men, and has helped mold Glavine, Smoltz and even Maddux (to an extent), into the MEN that they are, along with the ball-players. But I’m also not foolish enough to think that if Smoltz signed with the Yankees when we asked him to go to the bullpen, that he would have struggled up there.
SIDE NOTE:. Shafer hitting a HR 1 day after returning from the juice suspension, is a VERY good thing, IMO.
He’ll be here by July, if he keeps that up.
By THB
June 4, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
How about some nice minors updates, but Ill let richbrave give you the nice details on richmond.
In Rome, they won 5-2. Y’all saw Rohrbough pitched 6 innings, no ER, and 5 K. Heyward went 2-4, his avg is .335.
In Myrtle Beach won 4-2, Scott Diamond pitched 6 innings, ER, 7 K. Gorkys didn’t play.
In Missippi, they won 4-3. Schafer went 2-4 with a home run and a single. Van Pope also went 2-4 with 2 runs. Schafer is hitting .250 and Pope is hitting .293.
Richmond won 8-1. Thorman hit 2 HR, Diory Hernandez went 3-5 with a HR, and Jason Perry hit a HR. Hernandez is hitting .329, really an impressive year so far. Chuckie started but pitched only 3.1 innings with 3 SO. Richbrave, do you know why?
By chrisklob
June 4, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Smoltz basically gave you a 40 run difference every year over an average starting pitcher.
*Tex gives you a 40 runs created difference over the average hitter. *
Can you back these numbers up or are you just guestimating? I’m not calling you out but I am genuinely curious about them. You’re much more statistically oriented than I am. Those numbers seem highly significant to me and I would love to see the stats to back them up.
By JEB
June 4, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
DOB I totally agree with you on the outfield bat! We have good pitching! Our numbers are VERY good! Our offence is suspect! We are dependant on too few guys to make or break a game. Basically, Chipper, Tex, McCann, sometimes Escobar, a streaky KJ, and who knows which Francourer will show up. Then a blessing thrown in every once in a while by Blanco, Norton, Infante. We need another consistent bat to throw in the mix to make our line up dangerous. Right now, it MIGHT be scary on some days.
We’ve got some GREAT pitching coming up in the minors right now, that can form us a GREAT pitching staff for a few years to come. I would not be giving up the farm for another starting pitcher!
By rainman
June 4, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
what gives with this jason perry dude. this guy is killing the ball. as bad as our Off has looked at times we might need to give this dude a look.
By rupert
June 4, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
if this really is it for smoltzie i tip my cap, his last postseason game was that game 2 against the astros in ‘05, the “must win” that he basically willed himself through, dominating with guts and sheer determination, the greatest postseason pitcher of our generation, you can debate who was better of the big three, but one game for all the marbles, give me 29, thanks somoltzie
By Shamus Thacker
June 4, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
I’d put a Spring Training Liftin’-N’-Stretchin’ clause in any Tex contract. No liftin’, and no more stretchin’ than absolutely necessary for 1,000,000 batting-cage swings. That’s about how many swings it took him to heat up, DURING the damn season! If one of our divisional opponents had come flying outa the gate and kept running, we’d be sunk. Tex doesn’t take his yearly early season blues very seriously. I do.
By N8
June 4, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
DOB
I agree with you about you 7 years 150 million estimate about Tex.
I for one wouldn’t have a problem with that. Just over 20 million per isn’t that bad, considering that Hampton, and possibly Glavine and Smoltz (2 guys out of 3 that very well might NOT help the Braves out much this year), coming off the books.
Whether Wren wants to commit that high of a percentage to the overall team salary, is yet to be seen.
Add to that, I’m still not sold on giving out 20 million dollars to a guy that takes 1/3 of the season to get going. How about offer him 2/3 of that money? LOL! Like 7 years 95 million. (kidding of course).
I have no reasonable solution to who plays 1B if they don’t sign Tex to a long-term deal. Not really worried about next year right now (but always thinking long-term).
Just not sure that a team that is gonna be at the brink of it’s payroll max, can “afford” to have a guy that they give 20 million + to per year, over 7 years, can afford to have him NOT be “the man” for 6 months out of the year.
I surely wouldn’t give too much money to Sabathia either, but I’d rather see that money go towards pitching.
But that’s just me. Gotta have some bats too, I suppose, huh?
By Will
June 4, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
Rupert, I meant to mention that 05 game when Smoltzie dominated the Astros and Mccann took Clemens deep! I gained a new respect for Smoltz after that series when they said he probably couldnt have pitched NLCS even if braves made it there. The more and more i think about it i just dont see him coming back. He was pushing it to the limit even that start in 05 and that was three years ago.
By Paul Hamilton
June 4, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Why can’t bobby “dumb a*” cox just let the relief pitchers pitch when they are rolling instead of trying to get matchups and make sure this guy or that guy pitches a certain inning in the game???
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it better for our relief pitchers to pitch a couple of innings one day and rest the next rather than to have them pitch an inning every f’n day? Ohman pitched great for only two batters and he has to take him out. Don’t get me wrong. I like Manny, but when a guy is throwing strikes let him keep pitching!!!
By Chop Chop
June 4, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
7 years, $150 million for Tex?
No thanks.
Let the Yanks and Mets fight it out for the guy. They’re both moving into new parks next year and won’t mind spending a little extra to get a piece of Mark Teixeira. If the Braves are going to keep Tex, maybe Frank Wren can ask the Auburn guys who wrote him that tribute song last year pay some of the difference?
They’re surely gettin’ royalties from that, right?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
N8, I’m not saying that Cox should get credit for making Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux a success. That’s an argument for a different time.
I’m just saying that too many say he is overrated because anyone could have won with 3 Hall of Fame pitchers. That is true except that Cox was the reason they had 3 Hall of Fame pitchers. If Cox was never here, Smoltz, Avery, Glavine and Maddux would have never been Braves in the 1990s.
Just look at what you said in your post:
Maybe he came here to play for Bobby. Maybe he came here because they offered the next biggest contract (than the one he turned down from the Yankees). Maybe he just wanted to be in a rotation with Glavine, Smoltz and Avery?
Two of your three possibilities involve Cox because Maddux would not have wanted to join a rotation of Glavine, Smoltz and Avery if none of those three were Braves because Cox didn’t draft, trade for and groom them.
Just like people thought the world was flat, people also thought Leo was responsible for all the pitching success, yet Roger McDowell has the NL’s leading staff as far as ERA goes. So do the math.
But couldn’t that be said to be attributable to Bobby as well?
The thing about Bobby is that when he was a GM, he made sure Ted committed to surrounding Bobby with the best scouts and player development personnel in the minors.
Then when they had the chance to get the best GM, he let them hire JS because he wanted to be surrounded by the best.
And, as somewhat silly as the Shaun vs. 10Paul thing sounded yesterday about the grounds crew, that was another thing Bobby did. In the late 80s, the Braves didn’t even have a full time grounds crew and, as a result, were known for having the worst natural surface in the majors (a possible partial factor for the premature decline of Dale Murphy). But Bobby changed that and demanded that the Braves drastically improve their grounds crew. Now some like Shaun believe they have the best grounds crew.
Then when he became the manager, he made sure he was surrounded by the best of coaches. So Roger’s success doesn’t discredit how important Leo was but, rather, sheds light on how much Bobby has an eye for good baseball men and how he doesn’t hesitate to surround himself with them.
With that being said, I still think TP is not that good of a hitting coach :)
By uga-brave
June 4, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
maddux 69 pitches 3 hits through seven innnings against the cubs.
kind of ironic that glavine and maddux both pitched on the same day that smoltz’s career may have reached the ninth inning.
for the braves, look no further then their lack of power for their problems.
no way should they have 30 less dingers then the fish.
everyone raise their hand who thought that dan uggla would have more homeruns then tex and francoeur combined.
By bravesfan
June 5, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
Anybody know where I can find video highlights of the Braves in the post-season? Thanks!
By Chop Chop
June 5, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
Braveheart,
In all fairness, it was John Schuerholz who brought Ed Mangan with him from Kansas City to fix the field at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium. I agree with you that things never would have worked between Cox and Schuerholz if Bobby hadn’t been able to keep his former GM ego in check.
Here’s a cool October 2001 Baseball Digest article written by former AJC great Jack Wilkinson. That’s where I got the info about Mangan. I was pretty sure Schuerholz had hired him right off the bat.
By uga-brave
June 5, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
braveheart,
i agree with your last post. paul snyder and staff did a great job of player development and scouting. cox drafted and acquired the early talent and js put on the final coats of paint.
now of course we had a owner that was committed to winning and gave mgmt. a open checkbook.
their philosophy was put a winner on the field and people will come.
most fans on the blog are in the minority about a trip to the ballpark. we would much rather see wins then watch all the other between innings antics.
times have changed, going to the ted in some ways is the entertainment, and the outcome while important is secondary.
we need a owner, a real owner not a company that considers us tax break or a non core asset.
we needed a owner at the press conference today that sat next to smoltzie and felt the same anguish that many fans felt today at 11:30.
By N8
June 5, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
Braveheart
I agree that the argument is for another time. LOL! I’m too tired to be anymore long-winded tonight.
You’re missing my point. I am NOT disagreeing with you about Bobby being the reason Glavine, Smoltz and Avery were HERE, and thus Maddux coming here.
That is certainly NOT debatable.
But Bobby continuing to win as a manager AFTER 1993, is what I’m talking about.
It’s really the classic “chicken vs. the egg” theory, and could be argued back and forth for hours (over many drinks would be fine by me).
Surely had that trio moved on in the mid-90’s, and they had success elsewhere, ALL THREE OF THEM would give a certain amount of credit to Bobby.
The question is how would the Bobby led Braves done WITHOUT those three for 10 years, had they all left via free agency in their prime?
Nobody will every REALLY know, which is what makes it so much fun to debate. If it were clear cut, with evidence to prove one side right or wrong, it would be a short conversation.
But since I’ve typed 3 or 4 paragraphs AFTER I said I didn’t want to discuss it tonight, I’ll quit while I’m ahead.
By Kentavo
June 5, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
Bennett must wonder what he did wrong to get abused by Cox like he does.
I’m on the make a splash and get another proven strater and a LF with pop bandwagon.
Who, I really don’t have an answer for that - but recent seasons have shown the Braves to be wheelers and dealers, so I think something will get done. They want to stay in this thing and as long as we don’t have another June swoon, they will be in contention. Even without Smoltz, they’ve held their heads above water, albeit only a few games above .500, but still only a few games back in the division. Having Gonzo and Soriano in the pen will help considerably. I think we’re going to see Charlie Morton get a shot pretty soon, too. And don’t forget guys with experience, Scott Williamson, Chucky Cheeze and Damian Moss are down in Richmond, who can be brought up for spot starts. And so is Joe Borchard, who ripped the cover off the ball this spring. I think it’s much better to have all of these injuries in the first half of the season. Wren and the boys are not lying to us - this team has more depth than the previous two non-playoff making ones.
By A-ville Ranger
June 5, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
WARNING HUMAN INTEREST STORY AHEAD…..all you non-human types can stop here.It went from low 70s to mid 90s here in Black Mountain NC so I decided to take my rec kayak to Lake Lure for some ”stroke boatin” today.When I picked up the thing a bird flew out, I set it down and looked inside.The little she-buddy had built her nest in it and there were four eggs.Unfortunately one rolled to the opening and I couldn’t get it back because the end narrows too much.Well being a bit soft in the head I put it back and placed seeds in there.So here I am boatless till these critters get old enough to fly off.
By A-ville Ranger
June 5, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
Braveheart Very well reasoned post at 11:57.Smoltz in particular may not have been the pitcher he became without Cox.People forget how messed up he was for awhile.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
Can you back these numbers up or are you just guestimating? I’m not calling you out but I am genuinely curious about them. You’re much more statistically oriented than I am. Those numbers seem highly significant to me and I would love to see the stats to back them up.
Klobber, I was guesstimating a bit that Smoltz and Tex each provide a 40 run differential over the average player, which essentially means that they each provide 4 wins above the average player.
With Smoltz, I was just going with the average starter giving up in the ballpark of 5 runs per game (including unearned runs) as they did in 2006 & 20007.
Over the last 3 years, Smoltz pitched 667 innings. An average pitcher therefore would have given up 371 runs in those innings or 124 a year. Smoltz however only gave up 254, or 85 per year. That’s where you get the 40 run differential per year with Smoltz.
With Tex, you have to use the whole convoluted theoretical Runs Created, VORP, batting runs thingies that everyone hates.
But if you got to baseball-reference.com and go to Tex’s page, you can see under the special batting section that Tex has had batting runs (runs above average player) totals of 41.2, 26.5 and 38. In two of those seasons, you see that Tex theoretically created the same run differential Smoltz averaged.
If you got to their Pecota cards on baseball prospectus, the VORP (value (or runs) over replacement player) for Tex was 62, 37.4, and 53.1. The VORP for Smoltz was 60.1, 61.9, and 56.7. Smoltz was more consistent but Tex is in the ballpark of being just as valuable in the other two seasons.
That’s why I think they need to sign Tex if he will take 7 years, $150 mil. His prime has just started and they can’t afford to lose that much of a run differential from two different powerful sources. They’re not likely to find a similar pitcher or hitter as Smoltz or Tex. You can’t lose both your ace and your cleanup hitter without adequate replacements and just say oh well to losing 80 runs of run differential.
And I’m deeply sorry to everyone that I went VORP. It fills me with as much disgust as it does you.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop, thanks for the link to that article. It was a really great read.
I can’t find the article now but I read somewhere out on the internet a couple of months ago about how Bobby was perpetually ticked off in the late 80s about the poor playing surface at Atlanta Fulton County stadium.
He was ticked they didn’t have a full time grounds crew and that it was affecting play, the health of his players and the ability to attract players to come to Atlanta.
There was little he could do about it because the stadium was owned by this poorly managed city and they had to share the stadium with the Falcons.
So there was little Bobby could do to change the shoddy sod he desperately believed needed to be changed.
But when the Georgia Dome was being introduced and when it became clear the Falcons were moving over there, the Braves finally were able to wrest away control and get themselves a proper grounds crew.
Thus, when Scheurholz hired Mangan it was a matter of some perfect luck and timing for Scheurholz to claim credit for something Bobby had been trying to address for 5 years.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 5, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
Not to nitpick or anything, I just wanted to make sure the record is correct.
N8 and Braveheart, Tom Glavine was drafted in 1984 when Tom Mullen was the Braves GM. Greg Maddux came to the Braves in 1992 as a free agent when John Schuerholz was the GM.
Steve Avery and Chipper Jones were drafted while Bobby Cox was the Braves GM and of course John Smoltz came from Detroit in the famous Doyle Alexander trade.
David Justice was drafted in June of 1985 while Tom Mullen was still the Braves GM. Cox didn’t join the organization until October of 85.
What most seem to forget is when the Braves run of excellence started in 1991, it was predicated around pitching, defense and the running game.
Not to take anything away from Bobby Cox. But, John Schuerholz played a major part in the Braves 1991 turn around by bringing in Terry Pendleton, Sid Bream, Otis Nixon, Deion Sanders and Rafael Belliard. These five players brought the running game, infield/outfield defense and veteran leadership that was previously missing.
And of course, lets not forget the free agent acquisition of Greg Maddux by Schuerholz. Which is arguably the greatest free agent signing of all time. Also, there was the Fred McGriff trade in 1993.
I’ll give credit to Bobby Cox for managing the talent that was at his disposal. However, John Schuerholz was the real architect who brought in the players that made the Braves run of excellence possible in the nineties.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
now of course we had a owner that was committed to winning and gave mgmt. a open checkbook.
UGABRAVE yeah, kind of funny how when they had a good owner, a good manager and a gm who had the highest payroll in the majors when he was with the royals and then again with the braves 6 years later, that they went to 4 world series in 6 years.
but when the focus shifted away from spending like that with the trade of grissom and justice so that they wouldn’t have the highest payroll in baseball, they have only been to one world series in the last 11 seasons.
sounds like it ain’t a GM or manager problem but an owner problem.
alright, i’m off to bed.
By BravesRule
June 5, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this
Hmmm. Whaddya know? Norton makes an out in AB #2. I guess he’s now 2 for 20 (.100) after his first AB aginst the same pitcher.
But at least he made his first AB count, rightN8
LOL. what a load of crapola Nate. Talk about a small sample size. You’re a real pizzer lil’ bubby. amazing what you can find to whine about :-)
By uga-brave
June 5, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
coach,
not to nitpik, but it was john mullen not tom.
By andy
June 5, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
I say bring Maddux back. He may be old, but he can still pitch. His ERA is under 3.50 this year, and he woul definitely help our pitching staff. It would be nice to see him finish his career in Atlanta.
By BA
June 5, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this
Dob, you’re a writer. You probably know a few guys that have HOF votes, right? From what you’ve heard, do you have any doubt that Smoltzy is a first ballot HOF? I worry people nationally might not really appreciate what this guy has done.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 5, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this
Food for thought.
In 1989 and 1990 the Braves stole 83 and 92 bases respectively. They ranked 11th and 12th during those two seasons in stolen bases.
In 1991, the Braves stole 165 bases and ranked 3rd in the N.L. that year.
During the 2006 and 2007 seasons the Braves totaled 52 and 64 stolen bases. Ranking 16th and 14th during these two seasons. The past two years were the lowest totals in stolen bases since 1975.
The 2008 Braves are currently on pace for 56.7 stolen bases.
By Teddy Jack Eddy
June 5, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
For you late nighters ”Reservoir Dogs” is starting on IFC,some of the snappiest dialog ever.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
Coach, I know Glavine wasn’t drafted by Cox. My posts are more about the organizational philosophy he was able to get Ted to buy into (with help from Kasten and others) that patience was needed with younger players like Glavine and Smoltz instead of trading the future away for and/or overspending on a bunch of over the hill names like all the former members of the Bronx Zoo Ted loved.
That wasn’t easy to do because (1) Ted wanted to win and to make a name for himself, the Braves and his television networks but didn’t know how to go about it right when it came to baseball and (2) the number one interest of all GMS is self preservation.
It wasn’t in Cox’s best interest at the time to get Ted to be patient and watch Glavine stink it up or be average for a couple of seasons or to trade Doyle Alexander for a minor leaguer with mediocre minor league stats. It was in the best interest of the Braves but not Cox himself.
If Cox couldn’t get Ted to buy in or if Cox was only worried about saving his job, he never would have traded Doye Alexander for Smoltz and he may have panicked and got rid of Glavine like lots of GMs do because they are more worried about their jobs and feeding their family than they are about the long term welfare of the team.
And I know that Schuerholz was the GM when they signed Maddux. It wasn’t about that. It was about the why Maddux signed. My thought is that the Cox clubhouse culture was preferable for Maddux and that’s why he signed for less money than the Yanks offered him. Without Cox’s clubhouse culture and without the Braves winning because Cox had made sure Smoltz, Avery and Glavine were around to make them win, the Braves likely would have had no shot of signing Maddux (at least not at the price they offered).
What most seem to forget is when the Braves run of excellence started in 1991,
Coach, sorry, but the run started when, on the very same day, they traded for John Smoltz and called up Tom Glavine. Your statement is akin to believing that the 9/11 terrorists just showed up in 2001 without planning that tragedy for years in advance.
it was predicated around pitching, defense and the running game….. I’ll give credit to Bobby Cox for managing the talent that was at his disposal. However, John Schuerholz was the real architect who brought in the players that made the Braves run of excellence possible in the nineties.
Let’s not kid ourselves. The pitching was what made the run of excellence possible in the nineties. Avery and Mercker were drafted by Cox. Smoltz was traded for by Cox. Glavine was brought up and groomed under Cox’s watch.
Schuerholz did a nice job of furnishing the building but Cox built that sucker.
Can’t deny the importance of Schuerholz at all but let’s not get carried away and put down all of Cox’s contributions to it because you don’t like the man.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 5, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this
Braveheart wrote: Can’t deny the importance of Schuerholz at all but let’s not get carried away and put down all of Cox’s contributions to it because you don’t like the man.
Braveheart, you are off your rocker. I happen to love and respect everything that Bobby Cox has accomplished. I also know that he is most overrated manager in the game of baseball.
Great pitching can’t win without the proper defensive unit to back it up, Schuerholz knew this and fixed the problem.
In 1990, Smoltz , Glavine and Avery were a combined 27-34 with an ERA of 4.34
In 1991 Smoltz, Glavine and avery were a combined 52-32 with an ERA of 3.22
It’s called great D-E-F-E-N-C-E backing the pitching. That’s what Pendleton, Bream, Nixon, Belliard and Sanders added.
Without Schuerholz, the Braves would not have succeeded, period. Now, go get some sleep before you have another brainfart :-)
By Quack Quack
June 5, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, you are off your rocker. I happen to love and respect everything that Bobby Cox has accomplished. I also know that he is most overrated manager in the game of baseball.Coach
can anybody make any sense out of this statement? No wonder Coach never makes any sense he is a total complete unmitigated moron.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 5, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this
WOW, now we are reduced to to childish name calling. Why am I not surprised.
It’s what happens when someone can’t come up with an intelligent argument.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2008 4:38 AM | Link to this
Coach, don’t flatter yourself. Quack Quack ain’t me. I wasn’t calling you names.
Coach, the problem with you though that is you say people can’t respond with an intelligent argument when there was never an argument. Just an intelligent discussion between me, Chop Chop, N8 and ugabrave as to all the factors that led to the rise of the Braves and the decline to what we have seen over the last 432 games.
Instead of treating your posts as just something that augmented the discussion, you want your simplistic analysis to be it. period. end of story. defense, stolen bases. period. end of story. schuerholz did it all. period. end of story.
no one denies the importance of schuerholz and the addition of nixon, pendleton, bream, sanders and so on. those were a given before the discussion even started.
the problem is that it’s much more layered than that and you have to take the whole thing back to october 1985 when cox got hired as the GM all the way to the present day.
but you won’t do that because you want to be myopic and focus on your little agenda against cox and not think through the issue because the conclusion reached after intelligently thinking through all the factors of the past 23 years will render your opinion of cox clueless.
By Capt Caveman (the original Dawg)
June 5, 2008 5:25 AM | Link to this
Braveheart
You realize that you are trying to reason with a man who used capital letters and hyphens to MISSPELL a word..
it’s Defen-“S”-e — dude.
It is also good to notice that Coach is only posting now very, very late at night so that his post are not widely criticized.
You would have an easier time selling flood insurance in Death Valley than to ever get Coach to see the error of his ways.
He can no longer get any respect for his opinions so he has fallen into the BIG CAPITAL LETTER CHEER he learned from his little league team to get attention. (which was original about him)
As far as the name calling - well we all no that he is the first on to go there anyway.
My grandfather told me a story about life that makes me think of Coach —
he said if you wake up in the morning and on your way to work you run into a jerk than just blow it off. If you go to lunch and run into another jerk than your having an unlucky day. If your on the way home anD you run into ANOTHER JERK — well then — YOUR THE JERK !!!!
Coach — your the JERK !!
By Quack Quack
June 5, 2008 5:43 AM | Link to this
It’s what happens when someone can’t come up with an intelligent argument.Coach
there was no argument. You made a totaly contradictory statement,(I love,respect…totally overrated of all time) and I called you on it. You are either a total moron or a total hypocrite or most likely both. Not arguing with you at all.
By Deep Throat
June 5, 2008 6:00 AM | Link to this
Just curious: how many games will Acosta have to blow, and how many scoreless innings will Stockman have to throw, before Stockman gets Acosta’s current role?
Feels like Phil Stockman is getting the Joey Devine treatment right now.
By ncscoots
June 5, 2008 6:34 AM | Link to this
caveman, just for the record, I was agreeing with your “playing the game” premise from yesterday, LOL. Maybe what I should have said was “read and experienced Shakespeare”. I thought that was clear, but maybe not. Anyway…
By Jeff R
June 5, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this
It’s up to Smoltz to decide whether or not to hang it up, and the same goes for Glavine. But management needs to decide to thank them for their contributions and not bring either one of them back. Both are Hall of Famers, but both have had their day in the sun.
Emphasis needs to be on bringing younger, talented arms into rotation. Glavine may have been the best option in a poor market last winter, but he was also a cheap option, and “on the cheap” seems to be what this team does now.
Bring up Charlie Morton, who’s having an excellent season at Richmond. If the team is going to make trades, try to swap for good young arms.
One other thing: Kotsay. A guy with a bum back gotten on the cheap. Not a lot of downside risk to having signed him, but, come on, that he could have had back trouble during the season never occurred to anyone?
…or that Smoltz’s 41 year old rebuilt arm (okay, his shoulder) went? Or that a 40 plus Glavine isn’t delivering nearly up to expectation?
Get younger… accept that there are no shortcuts to contending.
By Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
June 5, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this
So, since Cox is the most OVER-RATED manager in the game and on his way to the Hall of fame, does this make the man a walking contradiction?
Or does it it captain jerk a complete fool for not realizing the simplicity of both. Inquiring minds would like to know.
quack quack= 45 IQ. Forrest Gump would be proud.
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
…you had to at least play ball in your teenage years where you actually learned to play and were old enough to understand. Not just run around the field doing everything the coach was yelling at you to do.
I’m not saying that people are wrong b/c they didn’t, I’m saying that they are only sharing stuff that they read or were told by someone else, not their personal knowledge. It makes a difference.
Capt Caveman (the original Dawg), I think it depends on what aspect of the game we are talking. I think you are selling a lot of people short if you think you have to have played the game to have a lot of knowledge about the game.
I played in second base in high school (and wasn’t a very good hitter). So maybe I know more than some about where to go with a runner on first if a ball is hit into the right field corner. But maybe an nonathletic, Harvard graduate who never played above T-ball knows more about whether players of a certain skill set are more likely to slump earlier in the year or later in the year or something like that.
Look at someone like Voros McCracken, a pioneer of defense independent pitching stats. I don’t really think he “only shared stuff that he read or was told by someone else.” His ideas were pretty original and came from looking at statistics himself.
I think teams should (and most do) realize by now that the thinking that you can’t know unless you’ve played is going to hurt teams’ chances to contend. If some teams aren’t willing to listen to the nonathletic numbers crunchers as well as the former second baseman, those teams are going to be stuck at the bottom of the standings.
By 22oz
June 5, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Bobby said it in the radio interview before the game yesterday, the team has been in so many tight games lately that he hasn’t been able to get Stockman in there, so that obviously means he doesn’t trust him-ala Joey Devine.
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Did Theo Epstein play college or minor league ball? How many World Series does he have?
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
I understand what Coach is saying. Managers of great teams are sometimes overrated by a lot of people and managers of lousy teams are sometimes underrated by a lot of people. Basically managers probably don’t make as much of a difference as many people think. For instance, I seriously doubt Terry Francona all of the sudden became a better manager when he went to Boston. I seriously doubt Ozzie Guillen was a great manager in 2005 but a lousy one in 2007. But all this—managers probably not making as big an impact as some think—doesn’t mean Bobby Cox isn’t a great manager.
I’ll repeat the argument I make every time someone brings up Bobby Cox being a lousy manager: Cox’s win-loss record isn’t the sole reason we should regard him as a great manager. We should regard him as a great manager because of his win-loss record AND because of his reputation; particularly his reputation among players, GM’s, coaches, other managers, front office people and other insiders.
By JCFROMUT
June 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Can someone fill me in on the Frank Fultz story?
By Dadgum
June 5, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
John Smoltz is the only pitcher EVER to record 200+ wins and 150+ saves in the history of MLB. He is a slamdunk undeniable 1st ballot HOF. Anyone that doesn’t actually make it unanimous should have his future ballots taken away. Buster Olney on ESPN opined as much. No way he isn’t 1st ballot. No way. Bet the ranch.
The Braves are vigourously working the wires to obtain pitching as we know. We need solid starters that can get us into the 7th or our bull pen will be worn out by late June. Living in Richmond I have watched Stockman and Morton and regardless of stats etc. it seems to me that Morton is ready. Not saying he is the answer but I would take my chances with him over Stockman. We won’t know until he is baptised under fire but then again we didn’t foresee Campillo doing what he is doing. Who knows.
My guess is that the Braves won’t find much this early on the trade front. I gotta believe that they will bring up Morton before they trade away a player or prospects for a pitcher that may not be really any better than what we have.
We may be an average(poor on road) team right now but with improved chemistry the table can turn. It will take only about 87 wins to capture the division with each team looking vulnerable. The Braves will find the right mix. Question is will they do it in time.
By John Adcox
June 5, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
You know the news about Smoltz really hit me hard—frankly, a lot harder than I was expecting.
In the 3rd grade, my folks took me to see Hank Aaron hit 715, an event I’d been anticipating since the season before. When Hank left, I was literally incapable of understanding why my hero was let go. This feeling is kind of like that one.
Hank was the first, and the hardest, but not the last. I saw Niekro’s last game. Yeah, it was a show, a sham. But dang it, it was a good one. It gave us a chance to say good bye the way Knucksie deserved. I was there for Murph’s last game… and we all knew it was the last. But I think we also knew, just a little, that it was the beginning of a new era. The era of Justice, Smoltz, Glavine, and 14 in a row.
And that, I think, is why the news about Smoltz is such a kick in the gut. If he really IS finished, then we won’t have had that last game, that chance to say good bye and thanks for everything. We just didn’t know. We weren’t ready. He deserves that, a proper farewell, and we deserve it as fans.
Sure, we’ll have the statue at Turner Field, Cooperstown, and all that. We’ll cheer and smile and say, “hey, remember when…?” It’ll be enough.
Almost.
But in my heart, I’m hoping Smoltz has one last miracle left in that by now bionic shoulder and elbow. One last season, one last post season, one last chance to leave on his own terms. I want to be there when Smoltz leaves the mound for the last time. I want to stand and cheer and shout until our throats are raw and there’s not a dry eye left in the house.
Smoltz deserves it. So do we.
But just in case… thanks, man. Thanks for the memories, the thrills, and for representing my how town with dignity, class, and spirit. I’ll be telling my grandkids about you.
By McFann
June 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Looks like Maddux pitched a good game last night—with no win to show for it.
(No doubles for Soto, BTW!)
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
June 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Where is Jason from Maine?
By J.D.
June 5, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
nothing against stockman, but hes thrown 8 1/3 innings in his career, hes not ready for acostas role, and there is no reason to give acosta a smaller role with the stuff he has…a couple bad outings and everyone wants to cut the kid give me a break
By richbrave
June 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
22oz.:
Or maybe COX doesn’t want to start Stockman off in a tight game until he develops his rhythm in some not-so-tight situations so he’ll be sharp in tight situations. The big Aussie’s got nothing left to prove here in Richmond.
By jim
June 5, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
Comparing Morton and Stockman is like comparing apples and oranges. Morton is a starter, Stockman a middle reliever. Morton is a possible number 1 type starter, Stockman is a potential journeyman reliever. The Braves have an immediate need in the bullpen, they don’t have an immediate opening at starter. Morton (like a good wine?) has taken some time to age and they will bing him along the rest of the way giving him the best opportunity to succeed.
If the Braves were to offer 7 years at 150 million for Tex, what would the comparable offer from the Yankees and Mets need to be from a pure financial standpoint, given the difference in cost of living and taxes between Atlanta and New York? Would such considerations matter?
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
We’ve recovered from a long day at the hot ‘yard, putting together a new blog now.
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Regarding Tex, I think it helps the Braves that teams are now scared to offer such expensive long term deals to players. 7 years and 150 million sounds about right for Tex. I expect the Braves to offer him a respectable 6 year 120 million dollar deal that is back loaded. We’ll see if that is enough. It probably won’t be.
By DAP
June 5, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
7 years 150 mil for tex? he might take that, but i dont think the braves will offer it. the most he will get from the braves is 5 years 100 mil, and even that is stretching it.
i think he will get at least 23 mil a year from one of the new york teams. and i think the yankees are gonna get him.
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
DAP
I agree. I think the Yankees need a younger bat in the middle of their order. So do the Mets, but if you are Tex and the money is the same, why in the world would you want to play in Queens next year?
By DAP
June 5, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
so…now that smoltz is out…are we packing it in this year? i really am interested in what my fellow blogsters think about it. chipper sounded like he thought they were done. what do you guys think, honestly?
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Jim, my guess is taxes and cost of living don’t matter too much. The teams in the cities where the taxes and cost of living are high are usually the cities that can pay more for players anyway. I doubt the Yankees or Mets are going to offer just enough more than the Braves or some other team to cover taxes and cost of living.
Plus most players don’t live in the state in which they play.
By Austin
June 5, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
jim
Phil Stockman a journeyman reliever? No I dont think so. I dont see how you can have a 1.23 ERA in 88 innings pitched in the minors and majors since 2006 and not be given an opportunity to succeed. It’s ridiculous.
By Lew
June 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Someone earlier was saying we need to get younger in our pitching staff. Not too sure exactly how much younger we can get.
Smoltz is likely gone. There is nothing to be gained thinking he will make a miraculous return or that he will be anything close to the old Smoltzie if he does.
Glavine has been widely described as a one year stop gap measure. Given that he’s no longer much more (if at all) than a five inning pitcher, does anyone sincerely believe he will be back next year? If so, would he be any more than a fifth starter?
Hampton will no longer be here.
Let’s look at who’s left, either on the ML roster now or in the minors and getting close and their ages-
Tim Hudson-33
Jeff Bennett-28
Chuck James-27
Jair Jurrjens-22
JoJo Reyes-23
Charlie Morton-24
Anthony Lerew-25
Now this doesn’t even take into consideration pitchers such as Hanson, Rohrbough or Medlin, who are likely not ready until 2010, or Teheran, who may not show up for a year or two (or more) after that.
No reason whatsoever that we couldn’t field an effective starting rotation next year out of those candidates and like I said-not too sure how or why we would want to get much younger than that, or that we need to run out and get more pitching-other than maybe an arm or two for the pen, if anything at all.
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
DAP
We aren’t packing it in this year. 31-29 in a division where no team is good enough to run away with it(Although I’d worry a tad if we got swept by the Phillies, 6 back in the loss column heading into a 10 game roadie is as bad as it gets).
By 22oz
June 5, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
I wasn’t saying Stockman should be closing, far from it. i’m just saying that he should have been used several more times than he has. Instead, i’m taking the over/under for Blaine Boyer’s trip to the DL for shoulder fatigue as June 28th. After the extra inning game in Cincy when Acosta gave up the walkoff to Bruce (Acosta had pitched 1+ innings 2 days in row), Cox said: “We were trying not use Manny”. While Stockman is sitting there rotting.
By Quack Quack
June 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
So, since Cox is the most OVER-RATED manager in the game and on his way to the Hall of fame, does this make the man a walking contradiction?
Or does it it captain jerk a complete fool for not realizing the simplicity of both. Inquiring minds would like to know.
quack quack= 45 IQ. Forrest Gump would be proudCoach
LOL. Why would you love somebody that you think is the most overrated manager in history? What the he11 kinda logic is that, coachie-poo? You are always insulting the guy up to and including those ridiculous chants that you post. I’m calling you a lying hypocrite for saying that you absolutely love a guy that you talk against the way that you do Cox. You are either a hypocrite or too stupid to make up your mind how you feel. If your posts are expressions of the love that you feel for ol’ Coxie, I’d hate to think what you would write about a guy that you didn’t like & respect. You are so full of it Coach. Mr know-it-all legend in your own mind hypocritical idiot. Oh and I have a higher IQ than you could ever dream of having , you silly ol’ fool. Roll the hole coach, roll the hole. :-)
By DAP
June 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Efrim and others, so…are we the best team? without smoltz, can we really hang with the phils and the mets? and the marlins? do you guys think we can really win?
im still thinking about it.
By The Crab
June 5, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
The cheapskate owners better hope the younger pitchers come through because I don’t see the tightwads digging in their wallets for much money to sign a good quality proven starter. Much less resigning Tex.
By OverlorDDDay
June 5, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Shamus Thacker im saving your 1101pm words on my desktop, LOL.
By JimD
June 5, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
If I remember correctly, Pro Athletes are paid like self-employed contractors. They pay state income tax in each state they play, not in the state in which they live or even in the state where their “home” team is based. They have to file state returns in every state where they played a game provided that state collects income tax.
By McFann
June 5, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger—
Good job in putting that egg back! Since you live in NC, and the nest is in such a “strange” place, I’m gonna have to say that it’s a Carolina Wren family. They make nests in the funniest places! We once nailed an old shoe to a post under our deck, and sure enough, my Jenny Girl (RIP) had four babies in there!
Sorry you can’t ride your kayak, but kudos for the good deed! Baby birds are always a joy.
By jim
June 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
In the limited opportunities that we have had to see Stockman, this is what I have observed: He has a good fastball with movement and a good breaking pitch, but lacks consistency in his delivery. He pitched up in the strike zone and had poor location. He could be very wild and threw several wild pitches (with no runners on). He relies totally on “stuff” and not location or stuff + location. He does not yet look like a reliable late-inning pitcher.
By OverlorDDDay
June 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
DAP We can. We have being doing very well without smoltz. We are losing the 1run game on the road. Smoltz makes no difference to it. Our bullpen is solid enough. Soriano, Boyer, Bennett, Acosta, Ohman, Ring, Stockman, Resop. We will change ring or resop for Gonzo in a couple of weeks.
Marlins will not last much longer. Mets are in a mess right now. Maybe Pedro helps them put it all together, but its not automatic.
Phillies look as the most complete team, but i still think their bullpen will have to pitch too many innings, it will be up to that. If their BP holds they will as team. Remember Lidge was injuried, but he is not pitching alone…… too many good arms in that bullpen. They are spreading the work load very well.
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
DAP
The Mets, Marlins and Phils aren’t world beaters. We’ll be fine as long as we can stop getting blisters, bad backs, etc.
Rays are going to take Georgia High School ShortStop Tim Beckham.
By N8
June 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Coach (Braves to the playoffs in 2008)
“Not to nitpick or anything…”
You tell yourself what you wanna believe. But we ALL know you like to nitpick (and we wouldn’t have it any other way).
“N8 and Braveheart, Tom Glavine was drafted in 1984 when Tom Mullen was the Braves GM.”
I’m aware of when Tom was drafted. But the minor league coaching staff was put in place by Bobby that aided in Tommy’s development.
“Greg Maddux came to the Braves in 1992 as a free agent when John Schuerholz was the GM.”
Hmmm. THAT’s how Maddux became a Brave. I always wondered about that.
“Steve Avery and Chipper Jones were drafted while Bobby Cox was the Braves GM and of course John Smoltz came from Detroit in the famous Doyle Alexander trade.”
Smoltz and Avery were pretty important in 91 and 92, wouldn’t you say? Chipper (ironically NOT the Braves first choice…. Todd Van Poppel, anybody?), also has had his hand in 15 years of excellence, right?
“What most seem to forget is when the Braves run of excellence started in 1991, it was predicated around pitching, defense and the running game.”
Now, I know that you’re NOT referring to me, when making this comment. I’ve ALWAYS stated the importance of Bream, Pendleton and Belliard (along with Ed Mangan), in the transformation from “good to GREAT” by our pitching staff from 90 to 91.
*”And of course, lets not forget the free agent acquisition of Greg Maddux by Schuerholz.”
No denying that it’s possibly the greatest free agent signing of all time. But let’s not forget that the Yankees offered MORE money. Let’s also not forget that Maddux was the “backup plan” when Barry Bonds chose the Giants over the Braves.
Two pretty big “targets” that JS was allowed to chase with an open Checkbook. Seems to me that Ted should get more credit than JS for Maddux, huh?
“Also, there was the Fred McGriff trade in 1993.”
Again. Ted’s checkbook (and a mirage of “top prospects” to give the fire-sale mode Padres, come into play. Yet, I will concur, that JS negotiated the hell out of that deal. But KEEPING McGriff long-term has more to do with Ted willing to dish out more money than anybody else, rather than JS’s GMing.
“I’ll give credit to Bobby Cox for managing the talent that was at his disposal. However, John Schuerholz was the real architect who brought in the players that made the Braves run of excellence possible in the nineties.”
How about rather than trying to give either of them the majority of credit, we all concede that the combination of Bobby as GM, followed by him managing the talent that JS the GM gave him, ALONG with Ted’s open checkbook to KEEP that core of players together for as long as it was……ALL played a significant role in “building” the Braves dominance in the 90’s?
By ncscoots
June 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
richbrave, did Stockman actually get to Richmond when he was sent down the other day?
If so (for you folks wondering why he wasn’t used Wednesday), I imagine he might have been a little tuckered when he got back to the big club. He probably spent more time on airplanes than he did sleeping, between the send-down and the call-up in the space of a couple of days.
If he never left the Atlanta clubhouse, of course, it’s a different story.
By STRETCH
June 5, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
The Crab
I agree with you on that one. I mean i was just sitting here thinking…if there ever was a bad luck late inning team, regular or post season….the Braves have got to be that one team.
Im pretty sure the Braves would be featured in a magority of those clips over the past 15 years.
Some of this due to Bumbling Bobby, base running blunders, umps, and being outpitched but most recently and especially this decade management has done NOTHING to fix the areas in which has hurt the team over and over and is hurting this season.
This is a really good team on paper and on the field, but management constantly failed to address the serious issue, which continues to be bullpen.
In MLB you can NOT be 7-20 something on the road and continue to blow leads like this team has done for the past 3 years. So, look for another 3rd or 4th place finish.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
The 2008 Braves are currently on pace for 56.7 stolen bases
That may be… but the amazing part of this is that seven tenths stolen base. It’ll be talked about for years and will eventually be lumped into the instant-replay-for-stolen-bases-as-well-as-home-run-calls argument. Fathers will tell their children about the time they went to the game and witnessed a man steal only seven tenths of a base and be called safe. It’s another Festivus Miracle!
By Cherokee
June 5, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Well today is the day that we see what Mr 5-innings Glavine really cost us. Draft day and we have no first rounder. Tom has not been worth that pick so far IMO.
By JimD
June 5, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Cherokee Well today is the day that we see what Mr 5-innings Glavine really cost us. Draft day and we have no first rounder. Tom has not been worth that pick so far IMO.
Actually, it will probably be several years before we see what TG cost in the draft. It takes several years to see if a draft pick is a boon or a bust. In fact I think more are a bust.
By ncscoots
June 5, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, maybe the call went three-tenths out? I mean, that’s kinda like “pretty safe”, just not “all-the-way safe”, no?
Would Bobby argue a three-tenths out only a little, rather than getting ejected?
Gotta admit, that projection does make me think.
By Moby Grape
June 5, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
There are two players named Beckham in the top 10 of the draft. Both are from Ga. one HS, one college and I think that they both play SS. Kind of an unusual coincidence huh? Ok so I’m bored waiting around for the draft to begin
By Efrim
June 5, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Cherokee
They will probably take Zeke Spruill, RHP from a high school in Georgia, at 40.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Well if 7/150 gets Teixeira Boras was right to turn down 8/140. That’s an increase of about 4 million more annually.
By 22oz
June 5, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Thats odd about Frank Fultz getting let go, or replaced, or resigning, whatever they’re calling it. the person that needs to be let go is the traveling secretary for the awful road record. Maybe George Costanza is available? The Yankees won all those World Series while he was assistant to the traveling secretary!
By Cherokee
June 5, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
They will probably take Zeke Spruill, RHP from a high school in Georgia, at 40.Efrim
yes perhaps if he is still available. They like Georgia boys for certain. I hate not only having no first-rounder but having that pick actually go to the damn Muts. Especially as Glavine has not been the innings eater that so many claimed he would be…and that I was highly skeptical of. Boo!
By DAP
June 5, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
efrim and overlorddd
its true that no team has run away with the east…and im of the opinion that there isnt a world champion caliber team in the east right now. the braves were a world championship caliber team until smoltz went down. i really thought we had the best over all team in the division, and would end up winning and doing well in the post season.
though weve been without smoltz most of the season and have hung in there, losing him hurts us bad.
if any team IS going to run away with it, its going to be the phils…they have the offense to muscle their way to the post season.
i dont think the marlins are going to see first place again. they have started to slide a bit, and i think they will continue to.
the mets are in shambles, and i think they are going to struggle for .500 this year, even with pedro.
i think the braves offense can hang with the phils, though its not as good. and i think our starters are better.
i think it will come down to head to head games, and whoever has the best bullpen is going to win this division. will that be us? if soriano and eventually gonzalez come back strong than id say yes…but we are gonna have to start scoring alot.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Would Bobby argue a three-tenths out only a little, rather than getting ejected?
He’d only walk up 3 steps and cut out 7 of every 10 profanities in his rant.
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
From an ESPN.com chat with Mark Schlereth, whose son is expected to be a first-round pick:
Michael (Houston): If Daniel is drafted by the Astros, would you push the guys at ESPN to pay a little more attention to our hometown teams?
Mark Schlereth: (12:24 PM ET ) We would have a great connection there! Of course I would, because I would have an interest in it. So whoever drafts Daniel, I will be pushing hard to get him on ESPN. But I do beleive there is an East Coast bias, because anytime you put on the Yanks or Red Sox you get ratings. So I feel for people in the west.
By Rahul
June 5, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Another draft possibility for us besides Spruill is Xavier Avery, another Georgia High school product. He’s an outfielder
By Crab -
June 5, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
At least when the triple A club moves to Gwinnett next year the players won’t have far to travel to replace injured players on the Braves roster. This year it seems like every-other-day someone is going down.
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
DAP, again, the Phillies pitching is at least decent and may be better than decent. Apparently a lot of people haven’t noticed because of their home park, which is understandable.
I agree about the Marlins, as I said a couple of weeks ago. They started off with an easy schedule and they found ways to score in spite of a low on-base percentage, which wasn’t going to keep up.
I think the Mets will make a run later in the year when everyone is healthy and playing well, but will it be enough?
And I think the Braves still have a shot. Sure Smoltz is out but Francoeur and the left fielders have struggled plus there’s the whole one-run game thing. All of that points to them staying in contention all season, at least.
The Phillies look like the team to beat but I see no reason why the Braves can’t hang in there in Wild Card contention and possibly division title contention with some breaks going their way and against the Phils.
By Lee in S. GA
June 5, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
its true that no team has run away with the east…and im of the opinion that there isnt a world champion caliber team in the east right now
DAP
Arizona has been reeling backwards also. It is hard to believe the N.L. Central may be the strongest division. But the Cubs are still the Cubs and until they actually go to the W.S. to break their jinx as Boston people will always doubt them as N.L. champs. My fear is the Red Sox will win it again.
By DAP
June 5, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
shaun i give the phils rotation a grade of decent. hamels is the man, and meters has been good in the past but hasnt been as good as expected this year. he might be ready to break out, though, based on his last couple of starts.
all their pitchers, except hamels have high ERAs and have benifited from having a great offense.
the braves rotation is better than thiers.
By DAP
June 5, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
by the way, we all need to be cheering for the reds today as they take on hamels and the phils.
By jcmo71
June 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
I am jonesing for a new blog…
By BossLady
June 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
What are we shooting for a thousand?
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG JUST POSTED, should appear in seconds….
By Shaun
June 5, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
DAP, yes, the Braves pitching probably is better than the Phillies but the Braves pitching has been possibly the best in the league.
At least some of their high ERA’s can be attributed to pitching half their games in Citizens Bank.
Their ERA adjusted for league and park is 10 percent better than league average. The Braves’ is 12 percent better. Cubs and Arizona’s are both 20 percent better. The Dodgers’ is 11 percent better.
I, like many, fear that the Phillies are going to break away. But the Braves are plenty good enough (as we say in Georgia) to contend for the Wild Card and the division title with a few breaks.
By yujmgkd impxj
November 3, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
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