AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > April > 30 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWhy Smoltz could be headed to bullpen
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Washington — John Smoltz moved to the bullpen midway through the 2001 season because his surgically repaired elbow couldn’t withstand the rigors of starting.
He might go back to the bullpen this season for a similar reason, just substitute the word “shoulder” for “elbow.”
It hasn’t been surgically repaired, but Smoltz knows it would probably be just a matter of time before surgery would be needed if he kept pushing it the way he has with his shoulder since late May 2007.
Talking to him on the phone last night, I heard a guy who’s willing to do whatever he can to get back on the field and pitch for at least the rest of this season, including the possibility of moving to the closer role.
“Yes,” he said when I asked him about the possibility. “Right now I’m sitting at ground zero, taking it day by day, looking at every option to help this team get to the playoffs and end my career the way I’d like to end it.”
If that sounds like an about-face for Smoltz, it is. But the reason he’s suddenly changed his position and is open to moving back to the bullpen, after pleading (successfully) for a return to starting in 2005, is because his health situation has changed completely.
Here’s a chunk of the quotes I typed as Smoltz was being open on the phone last night. He was talking about pitching in pain, about not always saying publicly how much he might be ailing, and about the reasons he’s kept going through injuries, why he’s kept pitching and not gone on the DL every time he’s been hurt.
You might also note the edge in some things he said, which, if you know Smoltz, you understand is a reflection of how much he pays attention to what people are saying and writing about him, and how much that both motivates him and burns at him, whether or not he’ll admit the latter.
“I chose to deal with things the way I chose to deal with them, which leads a lot of people to speculate or wonder or come up with their own opinion,” he said. “But it’s the way I have to deal with things.
“Certainly this news [the diagnosis of a strained rotator cuff and severely inflamed biceps tendon] is not new to me. At the same time, I’m not going to pitch again [right away]. I just can’t right now. I went as long and as far as I could to give as much as I always have.
“The body will definitely let you know when it’s time….
“People are going to say what they want, speculate how they want. Who knows what’s going to happen? I’m totally content with where I’m at and what I’ve got to do. I’ve got to wait. Wait and rehab.
“I’m in great hands with the doctors I have….
“I’m never happy to go on the DL, but I just couldn’t keep pitching this way.”
(Keep in mind, this is a guy who, before he gave up seven hits and four runs in four innings Sunday at New York, was carrying a 0.78 ERA and .179 opponents’ average, and had recorded 20 strikeouts in 12 innings during his previous two starts, including his 3,000th career strikeout on April 27.)
“I’m never a guy that just because I’m not successful, means it’s time to sit,” he said. “This has nothing to do with that.”
He converted 154 of 168 saves for the Braves in 3-1/2 dominant seasons as closer, but Smoltz explained to anyone who would listen during his last year or two in that role, that his elbow, once he got past the second year of recovery from Tommy John surgery, could be better maintained as a starter.
He said the every-fifth-day work schedule of a starter was better for his arm than the erratic schedule of a closer, who might pitch two or three days in a row, and while making mostly max-effort pitches.
As it turned out, he was right. The elbow continued to cause Smoltz problems during his closer years, and he had another surgery after the 2003 postseason (not reconstructive surgery, but also not merely an arthroscopic procedure).
The Braves agreed to move him back to starting after he agreed to a contract extension following the 2004 season, and the elbow has not been an issue since Smoltz moved back to the rotation.
But the shoulder has. Beginning with a sub-scapula tear in 2005, when Smoltz pitched with a great deal of pain late in that 14-7, 3.06 ERA, 229-2/3-inning season and during the division series against Houston.
He had so much inflammation in his last start against the Astros, Smoltz almost certainly wouldn’t have been able to pitch if the Braves had advanced to the NLCS that year.
Smoltz bounced back from that to tie for the NL wins lead in 2006, when he went 16-9 in 35 starts and 232 innings, leading the Braves in wins and innings for the second consecutive season — at age 39.
Then there was the slip on the mound at Milwaukee last May 29, a warmup pitch that he won’t ever forget. He strained his shoulder, an entirely different area of the shoulder, but Smoltz made his next start.
He skipped his next rotation turn after that because of the lingering discomfort - Smoltz always cause it “discomfort,” but I think you or I would refer to it as “pain” - and eventually relented and went on the DL, but even then he and the Braves made it overlap the All-Star break, because Smoltz wanted to minimize the starts he’d have to miss.
A lot of people ask me how long Smoltz has been pitching with the shoulder pain he’s currently feeling. I’ve said I thought it might go all the way back to late in the 2005 season, at least to varying degrees.
But he told me last night that the ’05 injury and the strain last season were unrelated. However, when I asked if he’s been pitching in pain to some degree since Milwaukee, he said, almost sheepishly, that was a fair assessment.
“It’s fair to say that,” he said, almost sheepishly. “I‘m not claiming to be hero, or trying to be viewed as one. I‘ve been through a lot. It’s not for everybody to know. I choose to do it.
“I’ve been through a lot, and I’m not going to give in to any circumstances. This now, it’s no different than things that faced me before. I’m just older.”
Smoltz will be 41 on May 15.
“People are going to assume my time’s running out,” he said. “So be it. It might be. But that doesn’t affect my desire. When my desire to overcome these things is not there, I’ll be [finished]. But that’s not the case.”
It’s almost like he views it as a weakness, admitting that he hasn’t been able to get rid of the shoulder pain. Dude’s got a different mindset, for sure.
(Me, I’d be pulling reporters aside all this time and saying, ‘Man, my arm’s freakin’ killing me and I’m still making half the hitters in the league flail at my pitches like minor leaguers.’ On a different note, if I was a big star athlete I’d not suffer fools who ask stupid questions. I’d be, like, ‘Dude, that’s the worst question I’ve ever been asked. Come back when you’ve got something pertinent to ask.’ Come to think of it, I’d call me a real prick if I was a reporter covering me.)
But back to Smoltz.
I asked if this injury he’s got now could be compensatory, or whether the trapezius strain he had during spring might have been. And from his quick response, I could tell this is something he has been told or discussed with team trainers and or Dr. Andrews.
Yes, he said, it could be. Actually, he said it as though it probably was true. That most of his shoulder/neck problems are probably related to a degree.
He also mentioned an incident many of us have forgotten from last season, the May 14 game at Washington when he dislocated the pinkie finger on his throwing hand, a grotesque-looking injury that was caught close-up by the TV cameras.
Remember that? He didn’t miss a start.
In fact, he threw seven scoreless innings in each of his next two starts, before the Milwaukee slip-up. But in those two starts after the finger injury, Smoltz made adjustments, like he has for most of his career, to compensate for pain that certain arm angles or pitches might cause.
And after all the years of making adjustments for this throbbing shoulder or that stiff elbow, the old dude is, in my unsophisticated view, simply breaking down. It happens, especially when you’re not jacked up on HGH to get you through the fading years.
All of us over 40 marvel at what he can do, but it can’t last forever. There’s not much else to compensate with, when he’s injured all the various parts of his shoulder and elbow, and been under the knife or the ‘scope repeatedly, and continued to pile up more innings than pitchers half his age.
By the way, anyone who doesn’t understand or recognize what the man has sacrificed - and I’m just talking health, not personal matters you probably know about - isn’t looking with a nonjaundiced view.
Yeah, he’s made millions and reveled in a lot of glory (and played every great golf course).
But I’m guessing that shoulder and elbow are going to be seriously arthritic for the second half of his life, which has probably already begun.
I’m also thinking that, more than it affects you, me, or many other injured pro athletes, being told he cannot pitch, or having to sit and watch his team scramble to fill in and then lose without him, absolutely eats away at Smoltz.
He wants to go out on his own terms. Wants so badly to go out with one last blaze of glory. Wants to shine once more on that big postseason stage where he was so good for so long.
For his sake, you’ve got to hope he gets the chance.
Getting back to why he’s open to moving back to the bullpen (sorry, I just realized how much I’ve rambled here), I think it’s because this shoulder thing has forced him to chance his course at midstream, or midseason.
He said to me that, honestly, that trapezius strain this spring was entirely unexpected, and that it was more neck than shoulder. That his shoulder was not the reason he was throwing in sim games for the early part of spring training.
But it might well have led to this inflamed rotator cuff and severely inflamed biceps tendon that he’s dealing with now, and that’s going to take at least a few weeks, I’d imagine, before he’s able to pitch.
And now that he’s got this stuff going on in there, and he’s seen how ineffective it makes him as a starter when it gets to this point, Smoltz has been forced to accept the fact that, once again, his health might not (probably won’t) allow him to pitch even 6-7 innings every five days.
It sounds to me like he knows the tank is running low, and he wants to make the remaining fuel get him at least through this season and, he and the Braves hope, the postseason. He doesn’t have many arrows left, wants to use them sparingly.
Maybe an offseason of rest will allow him to return in 2009. There’s no way of knowing that right now, or even knowing how much Smoltz is thinking beyond this season or wants to think beyond this season.
As he’s said several times since last fall, he’s going year-to-year at this point, and now perhaps even day-to-day. He wants to make the most of what he’s got left.
With setup man Peter Moylan likely headed for season-ending surgery, and closer Rafael Soriano dealing with recurring elbow soreness and still not ready to return from the DL, the bullpen needs Smoltz as bad as he might need it.
”BLAZE OF GLORY” by The Alarm
It’s funny how they shoot you down
When your hands are held up high
And you open up your heart and soul
I remember this much
There is nothing
You shouldn’t speak of
If you got something to say
And there is no one
To be scared of
Just get them out of the way
Going out in a blaze of glory
My heart is open wide
You can take anything that you want from me
There is nothing left to hide
Going out in a blaze of glory
My hands are held up high
I’m learning how to hit back
I’m learning how to fight
The law of the jungle says
You look after yourself
But I remember this much
I love as I’ve been loved myself.
Don’t forget what I told you now
When the question keeps on coming
And it’s how much more can you take
When they’ve ripped your clothes to pieces
Shouldn’t you be gone by now
But you keep on
Going out in a blaze of glory
Setting your sights for the sky.
They can offer you anything at all
But your dreams must not be sold.
Going out in a blaze of glory
No price is high enough
I’m fighting back with feeling
I’m fighting back with love
When the nails are biting into your hands
And the cross is heavy on your heart
Now is the time to really make a stand
My hands are held up high.
Going out
In a blaze of glory
Going out
In a blaze of glory
Going out
In a blaze of glory
Going out in a blaze of glory
My heart is open wide
You can take anything that you want from me
But you cannot take my soul
Going out in a blaze of glory
My hands are held up high
I’m learning how to hit back
Yes I’m learning how to fight
Going out in a blaze of glory
Going out with my heart wide open
Going out with my hands held high
Going out in a blaze of glory
Going out in a blaze of glory…..
Comments
By JimD
April 30, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
first?
By David O'Brien
April 30, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
I’m headed to the ballpark. Will have an update on Hampton’s fourth-inning exit after I get there.
By Satan
April 30, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
first?
By MattyO
April 30, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, any word on what happened to Hampton? Smoltz is a true warrior and a true Brave, you hate to see him go through something like this. Hopefully he’ll come back and be healthy enough to contribute in the rotation or the pen. He definitely deserves another chance in the playoffs, and to go out on top. Let’s hope we can do that for him. Go Braves!
By DonCoburleone
April 30, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Smoltz back to the bullpen, very interesting. Seems to me like that would be the best course of action for keeping his shoulder intact. Wouldn’t pitching 1 inning 3 or 4 times per week be better than 6 innings once or twice a week?
My only question would be, if we do end up making the playoffs with Smoltz in the bullpen, do we keep him there for the playoffs? I remember his biggest beef with being in the bullpen earlier in his career was that in the playoffs, he may never even get a chance to pitch a meaningfull inning. Whereas when he’s a starter, he’s guaranteed some meaningfull innings. Any chance he goes to the bullpen until sometime in September, then we ease him back into the rotation for a potential playoff run?
By OrlandoFan
April 30, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Good piece, DOB. Sad news to know that Smoltz is ailing because I have so much respect for him both as a pitcher and a human being. He is so professional, dedicated and loyal.
He is extremely talented and competitive. And he adjusts. He has so many weapons as a pitcher and as a person, both of which come across every time out there. And I think your blog really shows the depth of his character and his commitment to his team and his sport.
He could easily hang it up now and be set and have fun, and no one would question that. Heck, his contract is up.
But he wants to go on and wants to win. A lot of folks talk about how much they want to win, but Smoltz has proven in 10 different times, and that was when he wasn’t even on the mound.
His belief in himself (justified by his performance) and what he can provide to the team is so strong that it takes on a reality of its own. Smoltz says it, and you are inclined to accept it.
So many who have such talent — maybe more talent — lose their edge because they don’t share that fire and commitment.
I’ve been thinking that Smoltz was at this stage of his career mindful of Kevin Costner’s character Billy Church in “For The Love Of The Game.” I think they sort of resemble each other out there (not to diminish Smoltz by comparing him to a fictional character).
It would be wonderful if he could close his career in the way that Church did in the movie.
Anyway, great reporting.
By geauxbraves2000
April 30, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
A lot of ballplayers could learn of lot from Mr Smoltz. He is the epitome of this game.
Geaux Braves!!
By The Goche (A.J.)
April 30, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
i can’t believe you got away with saying prick…i love blogs
By OrlandoFan
April 30, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
When, not if, on Hampton. LOL
By 18 Wheels of Love
April 30, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
KJ and Pena for Harang
By DonCoburleone
April 30, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Hampton exited his rehab start? Please tell me you are taking advantage of the last day of April and playing an April fools joke on us DOB… UNBELIEVABLE
By DAP
April 30, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
DOB
wow. thats gotta be the best blog ive ever read. thanx for that one.
LEW i dont think im supposed to, but DOB gets a wulitzer nomination from me for this one.
smoltz is just an amazing athlete and man. i respect him so much, and i am always just amazed and inspired by him.
he is one of the greatest all-time. simply amazing.
i hope more for his sake than for my sake as a fan, that he is rewarded this season with a world championship.
he will always be #1 in my mind of the greatest athletes ive ever seen.
thanx again,DOB
By bb
April 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
according to R-Braves website, Hampton went 3.1 inn, 71 pitches, 1 run- maybe he hit his pitch count?
By T-Bone
April 30, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
What a pen: Soriano (when healthy), Gonzo, and Smoltz. Sounds like a perfect 7th, 8th, 9th set-up. Now we just have to get ourselves to the 7th.
As well as some clutch hitting. Chipper can’t do it all.
By TheCutMan
April 30, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB, for a thoughtful and well written piece chronicling the issues Smoltz has been dealing with over recent years.
I’ve always had deep respect for this warrior but seeing what he’s done and willing to do in the near future underscores the fact that his type doesn’t come along except about every generation or so.
By J.D.
April 30, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
you have to admire what Smoltzie has done for Atlanta…if this is in fact it for him I just hope the Braves can go out World Series champs. It’s obvious he wants it so badly but his body just won’t allow it anymore. He could be one of the classiest men ever to play baseball, and he could be a huge loss for Atlanta baseball.
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
I’ve got to agree with DAP’s comments. I’ve been reading the blog consistently for the past 2 seasons, and this is the best yet (of a consistently good blog). I almost wish you had used this in a story instead of blog, just so that the piece could be up for awards (ok, I think that’s enough gushing, but great job as always DOB).
By Renegator
April 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
DOB
See if you can get an update on Moylan as well. They said during the broadcast last night that he threw off flat ground. Any news on how he feels or how his future looks for this season?
Thanks
By rammerjammer
April 30, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Edward R. Murrow had nothing on you. I feel like I was right there listening to Smoltz and wincing as he described his physical and emotional “discomfort,” as he put it.
Thanks for giving us the best seat in the house, and here’s hoping Atlanta’s Mr. October gets one final time on the stage.
By OrlandoFan
April 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
71 pitches for 10 outs… Not bad, I guess, for a rehab return.
By Kev
April 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
bb
Then why the trainer came out after a 0-1 count…then hampton leaves….UN friggin BELIABLE….Im no expert or anything but RELEASE the guy if hes injured again..
By McFann
April 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
If Moylan were only healthy too, The starter goes 3,Boyer,Acosta,Moylan,Soriano,Gonzales and Scoltz. ;-) Nolie
Haha, yeah! No worries, right? LOL.
By DAP
April 30, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
ESPN says rich harden might be traded thisnyear. what you guys think of him?
hes been injured alot, but if he could stay healthy, he would be a huge boost. and his recent injuries might lower the price. what do you think?
By N8
April 30, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
GREAT story and “inside” information on Smoltz.
If the other Braves had 1/10 the heart and love for not only the game, but his team, it would go a long way.
They might as well erect a statue of him RIGHT NOW in front of Turner Field. Better yet, Turner “sold out” and ditched the Braves.
How about rename the frickin’ stadium after Smoltz?
It will be a VERY sad day for Braves and MLB when Smoltz hangs it up for good.
Maddux is scraping right now, and Glavine has gave no guarantee that he’ll stick around next year.
Wouldn’t it be “cool” if the 3 of them retired the same year, so they could go into the HOF together (of course they might be late for the ceremony - gotta get in a round of golf, you know, right?).
Not that I want Smoltz to be done. But the end is in sight, that’s for sure.
Time to start shopping for a starter Wren.
IF Soriano ever actually pitches again, and Gonzo come back, teamed up with Smoltz in the pen, we could be pretty damn dominant at the back end of games.
Just gotta some how, stay in this pathetic NL East race long enough for those 3 guys to come around.
Still not sure how the rotation will pan out (especially with - BIG SHOCK - Hamtpon leaving today’s game), add to that, our lineup is STILL mediocre at best with KJ at the top.
Since we can’t seem to get Glavine a victory (Thanks to Boyer), maybe we could save wear and tear on Smoltz by ONLY having him pitch in relief of Glavine’s starts. LOL! Call it, two buddied teaming up for a victory.
It’ll be like having a 22 million dollar pitcher on those days.
In all seriousness, even if Soriano and Gonzo are healthy and Smoltz doesn’t close (might be needed to pitch too many days in a row as closer - and I think the closer should be defined, not “closer by committee”), he can take over Boyer’s roll, and be the “middle” inning closer?
Seems kind of expensive for a 14 million dollar reliever, but hey….anything we can get out of the man to help us win games, is a plus, IMO.
The man wants to contribute and not be lost for the season, collecting a paycheck. If the guy can give us 3-5 innings a week as a reliever (closer or not), in crucial moments of close games, I’m all for it.
Now if ownership realizes that the only way to step up and have this season NOT be a lost cause, by allowing payroll to be raised, so we can get another starter from somebody, that would help a bit too.
By Chop Chop
April 30, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Some guys just break down early. Mike Hampton is one. Whether he ever throws another big-league pitch or not, at least the guy has given it a good shot. After all, he could have just retired and kept all of that money without caring enough to put the rehab in. He obviously loves the game.
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels,
Why would the Reds trade for KJ when they’ve got this guy named Brandon Phillips already playing 2nd base for them?
By ricflair
April 30, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Hampton is a __ssy!! Suck it up man. Just reading about all the the stuff Smoltz has went through makes me really p** off about Hampton.
By TennesseePaul
April 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the Blog DOB. I appreciate the work. I hope Smoltz heals up fine while on the DL.
By P-Town Brave
April 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
DAP
Harden = See Mike Hampton
By Shamus Thacker
April 30, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
HAMMY???
HA HA HA HA HA HA AAAAAAAAHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA
If Hammy were HALF the man Smoltz is, he’d not have missed a start so far! You think Hambolina’s boob injury woulda kept John out of the rotation? I can tell you now; HELL NO, IT WOULDN’T HAVE!!
By jack
April 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
does anyone think about the braves pitchers never going on the disable ever when leo was the coach
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Excellent DOB!
Smoltz is a hero. His desire and willingness to win never subsides to pain. In an era of ridiculous contracts, that’s somethign I can admire.
He doesn’t have to prove anything to me anymore. He already has. If it meant him retiring now to save his shoulder from being arthritic after baseball then I’d totally understand (the article i read pointed that this could be a hude sign of arthritis in older men).
Hopefully smotlz won’t need surgery. Again, the articles i read suggest that if the inflamation is that bad in men over 40, then surgery is probably likely. It said the pain could last from 6 months to a year, and if it does, surgery is needed.
For smoltz to even consider moving back to the pen, tells me something about his desire to win. The man is truly a rarity, he’s a role model.
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
DAP,
I personally think Harden is a great pitcher. The problem is that adding another injury risk to this rotation is probably not going to happen. Also, there are a number of other teams that will probably be willing to give up much more for him (like the Yankees). I only see it happening if there is a specific player that Billy Beane wants from the Braves, and it’s someone the Braves are willing to give up for an oft injured pitcher. I’m also not sure on his contract….I think it’s low, but possibly not low enough for the 2008 payroll.
By jack
April 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
does anyone think about the braves pitchers never going on the disable ever when leo was the coach
By jack
April 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
does anyone think about the braves pitchers never going on the disable ever when leo was the coach
By bravesfan
April 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Hampton got hurt?
By P-Town Brave
April 30, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels
KJ and Pena for Harang…
That gave me my 2nd laugh of the day…right after I heard about the Hampton injury…
They wouldn’t give us Ryan Freel for KJ and Pena right now…
KJ has lost pretty much ALL trade value!
By Shamus Thacker
April 30, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
I predicted yesterday that Hambolina would pull his tongue. Bet that’s it!
By Kevin C
April 30, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know that it is to early to talk trade with some teams but it has to be addressed. Would the braves look enternally first like Jo-Jo or Hanson? As for starting pitching around the majors Harden will cost to much, what about pitchers like Tim Redding or one of the young Giant starters for say KJ. just throwing those names out. The division is for our taking but we need to be proactive.
By nybravesfan
April 30, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
rich harden is one of my favorite pichers when/if he is healthy - the guy is always hurt though. if he could stay healthy he would be a huge addition to the braves if they got him.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
chop chop
if hampton did retire, he’d leave all that money on the table right? I wouldn’t mind that.
However, the man’s trying to come back. He shouldn’t even be trying if the pec hasn’t healed fully, but he’s trying.
I admire that Hammy wants to come back (though it’s frustrating as hell). If he wants to sign in the offesason for a measly minor league deal, then my respect for the guy will increase 10-fold. I hope he can make it back. We actually need him.
By Bravesfan79
April 30, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Thanks Smoltzie for all the great years youve given us Braves fans! You are a warrior and i hope your arm holds up for the rest of this year and next!
Cox should set very strict limits in how he uses Smoltz in the pen.
Dont have smoltz warming up in the 9th inning of a game were winning by 4 or so runs, try to avoid using him more than twice a week in games.
The times Smoltz should be used is like in crucial situations like last night, 1 out, bases loaded….game on the line (even tho its the 7th inning) A pitcher coming in that spot and shutting them down would of been just as meaningfull as 5 shutout innings by a starter.
I say we let someone else control the bullpen, because its clear Bobby sucks at it. No way Moylan should of been pitching in some of the games he did earlier in the year!
If he uses Smoltz like he did Peter….he wont last long. Go Braves!
By Lauren T.
April 30, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, last night on “Braves Live”, Our Katy Temple mentioned that Peter Moylan threw off the mound yesterday, but didn’t make any further comments. Is there any word from the clubhouse about his progression (if any)? Thank you!
By Curt
April 30, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
On the Braves website it says Hampton felt discomfort and thought it best to go ahead and leave. What is crazy is he had thrown 71 pitches and his limit was 75. So tough for him as it seems he always gets hurt at the last possible opportunity to do so.
Oh well we really could have used some vintage Hampton about now!
By TennesseePaul
April 30, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
he’s been injured a lot, but if he could stay healthy, he would be a huge boost. and his recent injuries might lower the price. what do you think?
Was this about Mark Prior? Kerry Wood? AJ Burnett? Carl Pavano? Mike Hampton?
I think whatever the price for an oft-injured pitcher, such as Harden, is too much for this team to afford right now. The most agreeable pitcher to trade for in terms of career achievements, health and a very manageable contract was available this winter but the opportunity was missed. Trying to make up for it by trading for a perpetual DL tripper would be a mistake.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
DAP and RC
i’ve been saying to go after Harden now for about a week. If the braves can get him now while he’s still hurt, then can get him for less. But if they wait till he’s finally healthy, the competition for him will be greater and it will cost more in talent.
i say make an offer. The kid’s only 26. He’ll get healthy one of these days. For one of the best aces in baseball, it’s worth the risk.
By JerseyGil
April 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
…yes Hampton re injury the pectoral muscle again, they not know when is pitching again, the radio announcer say. Bad luck so far this year for the Bravos in the injury dept.
By etownbrave
April 30, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
DOB Terrific job as usual. You convey Smoltz’s pain, anguish, and disappointment so well, it is like hearing him talk to all of us. This article should be on AJC so you can get the credit you deserve for your writing. We bloggers know how good you are, hope your bosses do too. Do wish Smoltz the best and hope he recovers soon.
By Shamus Thacker
April 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Quote by: bravesfan “Hampton got hurt?”
That’s kinda like asking if the sun rose this mawnin. lol
By brent a.
April 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
McFann
Your final post on the last blog illustrates my (sarcastic) point I’ve been making that I am not convinced that this team even needs a closer.
It’s really been a pretty irrelevant position for the Braves this season.
By JerseyGil
April 30, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Richmond Braves 18 inning without score, lost today 2-0 Hampton loss,Chucky James rlease him.
By DAP
April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
P-Town Brave
Harden = (Hampton - big money contract - long term commitment)
hes only making 4.5 mil this season, which the braves wouldnt have to pay all of, since they would be getting him mid-season, and hes got CLUB option with no buyout for 2009. if the option is excersizes, he gets $7 mil.
hes injury prone, but nothing like hampton, because his contract is very team-friendly.
By mr baseball
April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Pain or no pain, Smoltz pitched brilliantly in each of his first 4 starts, throwing his fastball 95+ and snapping off sliders and splits. In his last start, he had nothing. Did something happen between the 4th and 5th starts or did whatever problem he has just get worse?
When most pitchers have arm problems, it shows up in their performance. That was not the case for Smoltz until his last start. Dealing with pain is one thing. Dealing with the inability to perform because of injury is something else. Smoltz obviously can deal with the former, but the latter is pretty much impossible to overcome.
Even if going to the bullpen is a viable option for him, the giddyness expressed by some here about having Soriano, Gonzalez & Smoltz as a late-inning weapon is sadly misplaced considering the health status of all 3.
It’s time for the offense to step up and give the pitching staff some margin for error. If the Braves don’t start scoring runs in bunches ASAP, this season is about to be pronounced DOA.
By rupert
April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
hampton leaves after 3 pitches in the 4th. complaining about the pec,
what a b***
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
jack,
Leo had plenty of DL’d pitchers. It’s just that he also had Glavine and Maddux who have avoid injury for ANY team they’ve played on until recently. You remember this guy we signed named Paul Byrd? Or the fact that we never had the same closer 2 years in a row (aside from Smoltz)?
By TennesseePaul
April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t it be “cool” if the 3 of them retired the same year, so they could go into the HOF together
I was thinking about this as well. Talking it over with a friend. If Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux all retire at the end of this year they’d be in a crowded field. Other names that will more than likely be retiring this season along with those three… Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Gary Sheffield, Mike Piazza to name a few. What aids “the three” is their lack of involvement with the roid rumors. But with that type of class on the ballots, getting in all at the same time would seem more complicated.
By Chris I.
April 30, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
I probably shouldn’t be optimistic given his track record, but let’s not jump to conclusions just yet. There are no indications that Hampton was hurt. As a previous commenter noted, he was at about 71 pitches and is due for one more rehab start before heading back to Atlanta. Hopefully, he merely left the game because he had reached his target. Let’s hope that is the case.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
does anyone think about the braves pitchers never going on the disable ever when leo was the coach Jack
everything surrounding our pitching staff has been a circus act since leo left. McDowell was a clown when he was a player, so that speaks for itself.
By 18 Wheels of Love
April 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
RC
Maybe because I didn’t even know that they had Brandon Jones! Maybe because I was impatient and p** about Hampton and just fired off a completely irrational and random post. Ever thought of that???
GIGO
By JerseyGil
April 30, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
To Many injuries this year so far for key player, nothing wrong with hampton arm,he has 4 k 3 h 1 r,I guess with can use him in the pen to,How about 8th inning and Smoltzy in the 9th. And use Campillo as a Starter.
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
Can’t disagree with your reasoning. However, I think that Billy Beane is well aware of Harden’s value being down right now due to injury, and he knows that once he comes of the DL he’s going to generate a LOT of interest from around the league. There is really no incentive for the A’s to trade Harden right now while his value is low, unless they are just bowled over with an offer. And if we are bowling them over with offers, then we aren’t getting the discount that makes a trade worthwhile. My guess is they let him come off the DL, get about 10-15 starts under his belt, and shop him quickly in case he injures himself again.
By Efrim
April 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Hampton won’t be back for another month….
Poor Jair Jurrjens. He and Hudson(barring a Hudson injury, and I wouldn’t be shocked considering the lack of velocity) have to anchor the staff in terms of innings. Glavine will give you 6 on a good day.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
i fear the injuries and lack of consistency of the team is forcing us to rush pitchers back.
Hampton, feeling any discomfort in that pec, should’ve waited till it completely subsided to pitch. Afterall, it is mike hampton.
Gonzo, rushing him back 1.5 months early could be another costly mistake. Patience is virtue.
I can believe a man like Bobby Cox, who was so patient over the years, has reverted to rushing people back so fast now. Even with soriano is spring training - he wanted him to pitch when it seemed soriano was doubtful. I don’t have more instances or facts without research, but if memory serves me right, it seems like in the last 2 seasons, we trying to get guys on the field without proper healing/rehab.
By DAP
April 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
jack hampton got hurt in 2005 when mazzone was the pitching coach. smoltz had all his surguries and health issues under mazzone. john thomson had health issues under mazzone, steve avery did too. paul byrd got hurt while being coached by mazzone as well.
those are just the guys off of the top of my
By Bravesfan79
April 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
N8: I agree man, ol man Ted got bored with the Braves and turned into a sellout. Turner field should be named something else because Ted sold us out to AOL/Time Warner….who ran us into the ground! Man i hate AOL and will never buy their products again.
I remember about 3 years ago i called up and canceled my AOL acct and of course i got connected to some lady in India.
The conversation went something like this… Me: hi, i wanna cancel my aol Lady: ok we give u more free months Me: I dont want any more free months, i hate AOL and Time Warner! Lady: ok so instead i give u 6 free months instead of 3. Me: NO, i dont want ANYTHING to do with your crap company, yall KILLED MY TEAM!! COPORATE B******!! Lady: huh, what team, me knows nothing Me: The Atlanta Braves, a baseball team, and your stupid company messed up a dynasty, and ill always hate them for it! Lady: o me sorry, how about a free year? Me: SCREW AOL, GET ME OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM, I NEVER WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YALL AGAIN!
I hate AOL just like i still hate pete babsuckacock for trading Nique when i was a kid! I guess for true fans, grudges die hard huh?
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
if hampton did throw 71 pitches, then that’s a good sign. maybe after that many pitches, i’m hoping, the pain was a cramp or hopefully some scar tissue breaking up. Hopefully.
By David O'Brien
April 30, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
As you’ve probably heard by now, it was indeed the pectoral muscle AGAIN with Hampton. Couldn’t make this stuff up.
Got him on the last few pitches. Guess a 60-65 pitch limit would’ve served him better today, huh? Sheesh…
Anyway, too early to know how long he’ll be set back, if anyone’s counting the days out there.
Oh, and fact that Chuck came in after Hampton today makes it clear that Jo-Jo and not Chuck is pitching Saturday, as I suspected yesterday.
Should have that announcement soon, I’d imagine. Gonna get down to the clubhouse now.
By H-Ram
April 30, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Hampton is injured again
HA HAHAHAHAH HA HA…seriously it just makes me laugh…WHEN are they going to realize this guy wont pitch again!!!!!!!!!!!!WHEN…just cut the guy once and for all..your paying him the money injured or not….RELEASE HIM..thats the best move they’ll make this season…WHAT A JOKE HAMPTON IS!!!!!!!!!…
By Shamus Thacker
April 30, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
I’m absolutely convinced at this point that Hammy’s LONE concern is to keep those paychecks coming!
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
i just remember our announcers commenting all the time that other teams were rushing pithcers back and it wasn’t a good idea, that it didn’t fit the braves philosophy.
i remember one spring, gagne tried coming back from a minor leg injury, and the braves announcers saying that since the leg wasn’t completely healed, gagne could hurt his arm. What happened? gagne hurt his arm.
Now it’s the reversal. Instead of a manager that would constantly give guys a day or 2 off when they were ready to come back, we have a manager that brings guys back maybe a few days to a few weeks earlier and are seeing different results in the health department. What’s with the change in philosophy from our skipper and coaching staff?
By David
April 30, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Smoltz is The Man. As much as I will miss him being on the pitching mound once his body forces him to retire, I get excited at the thought of him coaching for the Braves. DOB - any talk, ever, from John as to coaching aspirations? Whether we’re talking pitching or head coaching? He just seems to be made for it. Oh, GREAT blog, as always.
By Bravesologist
April 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
KJ lost all trade value? First off, don’t trade him. Second off, he’s one of our best hitters dispite the slump he’s in.
By RC
April 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
I really hope that we don’t ask Jair to pitch too many innings this year. I understand that we need to do what is possible to win this year, but Jair is a BIG part of the Braves future, and overusing him in his rookie season would be a huge mistake.
By justdoit
April 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
make smoltz the closer - make a big trade for oswalt next month or even sooner who would like to play for the braves - that leaves the braves with a good rotation - an awesome pen once mg comes back - and a good run producing offense. easier said then done but what do you say? - get it doen Wren//oswalt in a braves uniform would be a beautiful thing
By tkg
April 30, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for fantastic insight on Smoltz, DOB. I can’t begin to imagine the health issues Smoltz has dealt with throughout the years — not just the past three. His grit, determination — heck, his heart — are some of the main reasons he is my all-time favorite Brave.
I absolutely appreciate everything he has done in that uniform. It was awesome watching him outduel Santana and the Mets earlier this month. Got to see it in person, 12 rows behind home plate. Freakin’ great. Been watching the Bearded Icon for, what, 17, 18 of my 32 years and I’m gonna hate it when his fired his last bullet.
Here’s to hoping he’s got plenty of shots left for at least 2008…
By David
April 30, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox (1:38 pm) - I don’t think you can hang all of this on Leo being gone. The pitchers who keep getting injured are older guys like Glav & Smoltz, or guys who’ve come to the Braves with old injuries. As far as I know, Leo is out of work right now….
By Seth
April 30, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
I bet Hampton reached his pitch count. He was supposed to throw 75 and today he threw 79. Chuckie pitched after him too. Maybe the plan was to get innings for both guys without having either of them do too much.
By Braves20
April 30, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Had just finished an interesting article in the current Sporting News about our ‘pen which got me thinking about Smoltz moving back.
The disturbing thing in the SN article was that MLB scouts believe that Soriano, even healthy, won’t cut it as a closer for a contender. The article didn’t mention Gonzalez.
Might be better for all concerned to move everybody up a spot and get an innings eater for the back at least until Gonzalez and Soriano are healthy. Then next year, take the money we will save with Tex et. al. and get a solid #1 or 2 to pair with Hudson.
By eware
April 30, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Is there anyway we can get a video of Smoltz punching Hampton in the face and calling him a b__tch? That would be sweet.
By Evan
April 30, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
How about a trade to bring back Kevin Millwood if we could make the money work? I read ealrier today on either espn or S.I. that Texas was willing to trade him, and even though his w/l record hasn’t been that good hes consistently eaten innings and had a decent if not good e.r.a.
By ricflair
April 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Vey nice Steve-O-. What are you a serial killer?
By Seth
April 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
I stand corrected…
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080430&contentid=2614611&vkey=newsmlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
By ernesto
April 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Steve-O, you’d be a good Philly fan. You should hunt Hampton down and throw batteries at him, that’ll teach him to strain his pec.
By Jared
April 30, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Hampton is in desperate need of some vagacil.
By BosnianBaller
April 30, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
I said before the season the Braves couldn’t count on Glavine,Smoltz,and Hampton.They didn’t count on anything from Hampton.But you cant count on Smoltz and glavine being 2 of your top 3 starters because they are in their 40’s.I wanna know whats up with this “depth” thing.Just because you have a lot of pitchers doesn’t mean you have depth.You have to have good pitchers to have depth.If it wasn’t for Jurrgens pitching the way he is pitching the Braves would be in a deep hole.
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
if hampton is hurt there is NO WAY we should even think about relying on him. If he EVER pitches thats a bonus for braves and him(contract year). clearly his body is flat out done!!!!!!!! we blogs go through this too much, we have had enough of this, the scare of OH NO MIKE HAMPTON JUST INJURED AGAIN!!!
By brent a.
April 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
I have now reached the point of understanding why so many think the Braves should just release Hampton.
I know, I know, there is NO upside to releasing Hampton (and who knows, maybe the insurance won’t cover him if he’s released); but, truth be told, the yo-yo game he’s played with the fans the last 2 + years has to really impact the psyche of the team at some point.
He is a part of the Braves team. And he has provided ZERO for us the last 2 + seasons. Whether they will admit it, or not, the organization is expecting something out of him, as evidenced by the fact that he was warming up for a start as recently as the first week of April.
His going to the minors and hurting his pectoral muscle is not just some whimsical event. It impacts the psyche of the whole team when they hear, “Mike’s hurt again.”
It has to.
Go Hawks! Go Lakers! Go Dr. Andrews!
By macdwolfpack
April 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Next injury for Hampton will be a strained uterus,typical injury for a p***.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
those of you laughing about hampton have no nerve. we need him. end of story. you should be upset. maybe you will be again on saturday when jo jo can’t find the plate, or when bennett starts again and can’t find the plate for an inning.
By DAP
April 30, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
leo mazzone is doing commentary for someone. im not sure who, but i saw him on baseball tongiht in a pressbox with headphones on, rockin; the night away. thats so wierd, the way he rocks like that. there must be something wrong with him.
By RC
April 30, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
I’m as frustrated as anyone else that Hampton is hurt, but comments like “Steve-O’s” are completely classless and out of line. If you are really are 24 like you claim, it’s about time to grow up.
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Hampton felt a “slight bite” on his popular peck and didnt want to push it any harder. He cares about his body and will take this day by day until september, where he will try to earn a check next year!!!
By BA
April 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, has anyone considered that it may be the underwire on Hampton’s bra that’s causing this?
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
MIKE HAMPTON=FRAUD
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
MIKE HAMPTON=FRAUD
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
MIKE HAMPTON=FRAUD
By brent a.
April 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
For Mike Hampton:
cause he needs some support
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
BOOO HAMPTON HURT AGAIN!
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
David 1:58
This is my point:
Got him on the last few pitches. Guess a 60-65 pitch limit would’ve served him better today, huh? Sheesh… from DOB.
Hampton’s pitch count should’ve been 0 pitches until the peck healed. He warned us after his last start that he still felt it.
Now it’s reaggravated, it’s gonna take 5 weeks to heal (3 wasn’t enough last time), and another 2 weeks of rehab. He’s a good 6-7 weeks away.
By Bob Wickman
April 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
I just don’t get the Hampton thing. I had the biggest breasts in the majors, and I NEVER had a strain…
By macdwolfpack
April 30, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
I have been hesitant to call for it, but now it is obvious the time has come for the Braves to make a trade for a young starting pitcher. With the tenuous health of Hampton (may or may not ever pitch again), John Smoltz potential of not returning to the starting lineup, Glavine being 41, and the recent loss of velocity by Hudson should send a loud and clear signal to the Braves that it’s time to try and go find another Jair Jurgens out there somewhere. I wouldn’t go get another end of their career guy as a quick fix because the only thing you have in reserve right now are Chuck James and Jo Jo Reyes and both have shown great inconsistancies, and potentially Morton who hasn’t pitched at this level yet. Other than those you either have to stretch out Campbillo or go get you another starter. With this being probably Texiera’s last year and you invested so much in him you can’t afford to waste this year waiting around for something that might not work like Smoltz and Hampton as starters.
By Bobby's Cox
April 30, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
it’s sad the hampton news is overshadowing the smotlz news.
By Chris I.
April 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
I’m with you RC. While I am frustrated that Hampton can’t seem to get on the mound, comments like Steve-O’s are out of line.
By scott boras
April 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
BRENT A. lol very nice fit
By Cody
April 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Hampton needs to retire and just give it up. He will never pitch in a major league game again. if a pinched boob is going to keep him from throwing then he is the biggest man-gina I have ever seen. I can’t stand waiting anymore cut that piece of SH******. I don’t care about his contribution to this team anymore. If he came back and pitched for the Braves I would boooo the bass-terd. I demand that he donates $40 Million back to the (Braves) Liberty Media so we can go get players we were robbed of while his crappy out of shape boob, hammy, elbow and anal strain was rehabing or laughing on his couch at how he has robbed the Braves. I was always a Hampton fan but HANG IT UP, YOU ARE WASTING OUR TIME AND HOPES, YOU PIECE ‘O’ CRAP. RETIRE You are stinking up the minors as well.
By Luke
April 30, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
It’s time to go get Jake Peavy! With Smoltz likely headed for closer and Mike Hampton out for who knows how long, it’s time to give San Diego everything plus the kitchen sink and get Peavy in a Braves uniform. We can’t let what happened last year to happen this year. PLUS get Kelly out of the leadoff spot! NOW MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!