Braves

By Runnin

February 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Escobar

By Renegator

February 22, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

DOB:

You should bat leadoff for the Braves.

By BigBlackFurryCreatureFromMars

February 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

That’s too bad. I was lookin forward to the old school baby blues…ummm,OK, lets see here…I’m gonna go with… FOURTH! outside chance at third and fifth

By StingerSplash

February 22, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it true the King hated that song because of the way it was produced and recorded? But after hearing him sing it, can you imagine anyone else doing that song? Not me.

By DAP

February 22, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

i would like the lineup if it did one of these two things;

1. kelly leadoff, escobar 2nd, kotsay 7th

2. escobar leadoff, kotsay 2nd, kelly 7th

keep kelly away from the 2-spot. hes got no business there.

By Rhett Bulter

February 22, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

What I liked about Kelly though is that he new how to work the count. How many times did we see him last year in a 3-2 count? Escobar is fast enough that he seems to be able to steal pretty well. DOB any indication Escobar has lost some speed with him bulking up a little this year?

It would be great to see Escobar on first then watch Kelly get the pitcher and catcher frustrated. Let them loss a little focus and watch Escobar run.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

February 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

On the jersey: I tink U Kno Who dropped a hit about that as well. While a uniform traditionalist, I wouldn’t mind seeing a blue jersey - especially if it means the end of the red ones …

On the 2nd spot: Kotsay/Johnson/Diaz aren’t bad options for 2/7/8 in the order. If not Kotsay, I’d like to see Diaz in the 2-hole.

On the 4th outfielder: In theory, I’m leaning toward wanting to see Anderson over Jones. Speed and versatility gives Anderson an advantage, and while I know the team is high on Jones, I think Diaz has earned a shot at holding the LF position full-time.

One Mellow Mushroom: Throw come ham on there and you and I agree. And DOB, shoot me an e-mail regarding MM.

By Captain Calabash

February 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Ron, your table is ready.

By Renegator

February 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Seriously though,

I like Escobar leading off with Kotsay 2nd. Put K Johnson down in the order in the 7 spot. Johnson is very versatile and can hit almost anywhere in the lineup.

By Steve McP

February 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

The news on Gonzo is really good, DOB do you reckon there is any chance he might be ready to go in May?

If he’s back to power and does not get hurt he makes a great addition to the pen, giving Cox a LHP in tight, closer situations.

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

February 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I thought you had used “Suspicous Minds” before. I could be wrong. But anyway, my namesake, The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy himself, does a killer rendition of it in concert.

By N8

February 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

“They won’t be the powder-blues the team wore in the ‘80s, though. They’ll be a new jersey with their regular dark blue”

VERY excited about the blue jerseys. I have ABSOLUTELY hated the red jerseys from the get-go.

But my excitement is a little diminished…..would LOVE to see the powder blues a handful of times this year. Those were SO UGLY, yet the nostalgia would be great. Similar to when the Braves wore the uniforms that Hank and the boys wore in the 70’s with the feather on the sleeves.

Those uni’s still kick azz to me.

Anyhow, I’ll assume that they’re still gonna wear the red uniforms too? That’s too bad. :-)

By chuckw/deadjournalist

February 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

wow, i needed to edit the copy on my previous post before i submitted it … hardcore. a second grader could have done a better job writing it than i did. sheesh.

By Ben

February 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Come on, DOB, no mention of Diaz for the second spot?? What about all my good OPS stats from the last blog? Diaz sees lots of pitches too, and gets on base more than Kotsay. Diaz for #2!!!

By DAP

February 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

MLB 2k7 on xbox has an alternate braves uni thats white with the powder blue pinstripes. they wear the old hank aaron style atlanta cap with it. anybody know which ones im talking about? i think those are sweet.

p.s. i love the red unis. they look great.

By fleming flash

February 22, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

What I like is talking about putting two 300 hitters batting 7 and 8. A few years ago who would have thought we would have a lineup with enough depth to be batting someone like Dias and Johnson in the 7 and 8 hole. How many other teams in the league can do that.

By GeorgetownKid

February 22, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Firstly, pineapple and jalapenos? That’s disgusting!

Secondly, to address your question, I believe that Escobar should and will bat leadoff. Primarily, this belief is predicated on the assumption that there should be a right-handed bat in the top two spots of the batting order, otherwise we’d have two lefties in a row followed by two switch hitters who prefer to bat lefty. That makes it too easy for the other team to run out a lefty reliever to face our 1 through 4 hitters.

Moreover, Escobar is the only realistic option for a right-handed hitter in the top two spots of the batting order (what other righty on the roster could be a viable option?). Lastly, I don’t think it would be good for him to bat second, as he shouldn’t have to worry about situational hitting and advancing runners, etc.

So, since Escobar probably shouldn’t bat second, and assuming that we want a right-hander to break up the lefty-dominant top half of the order, that means by default he should bat leadoff.

But I’d love to learn what any of you good folks think of my logic (if you can call it logic).

By Desert Brave

February 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Waylon Jennings does a pretty good version of ”SUSPICIOUS MINDS”.

I say you gotta go with Yunel at leadoff, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Bobby does a L/R switch with either KJ or Kotsay…

By ncgary

February 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

escobar kotsay y thats a second

By J

February 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

D.O.B, I must say that I had vowed to boycott the Bravos if Andruw was let go. However, perhaps because of last season, Kotsay well might be a good replacement. I am sure he will exceed expectations here and then go to the Yankees for 2.9 billion dollars when a free agent as so many former Braves have before. Strange how few have played as well since leaving. Hope Orlando is treating you well. J

By chuckw/deadjournalist

February 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Did anyone else happen to see that it looks like the Marlins are finally going to get a new stadium? Good for them. A retractable roof and in Miami (they will be renamed the Miami Marlins). Here’s to no more rain delays in empty stadiums!

By James

February 22, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Okay, I am conflicted. I think both KJ and Yunel would prob. do an above-average job with the leadoff spot. My question is this (I could probably look this up, but I am lazy, plus this might be a stupid question): Who bats better against lefties and who bats better against righties? Put KJ in the leadoff if he is better against righties, or put Yunel in the leadoff if he is better against lefties, or vice versa. Either way, I think Kotsay has got to be in that two spot. Hell, Hoss said so y’all!

By jeffc

February 22, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Esco should lead off and Diaz should hit 2. Johnson belongs in the 8 hole.

By TN-MAN

February 22, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, any idea how the rotation will start in the grapefruit league next week?

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

I think I’d go with Kelly Johnson as the leadoff man.

Johnson Majors OBP =.360

Johnson Minors OBP =.364

Escobar Majors OBP = .385

Escobar Minors OBP = .368

Kotsay Majors = .337 (Under .333 the last three years)

I don’t really care which order but I think Escobar and Johnson should be the top two hitters. Their OBPs are better than Kotsay’s and their best years are likely ahead of them. Escobar-Johnson in the top two spots are going to be on base significantly more than one of those guys-Kotsay.

Also, the Braves would be wise to get Escobar and Johnson more plate appearances than Kotsay.

Over the last three years Kotsay is at .267/.321/.388. Now that’s with his home games in a tough park for hitters and a tougher league, so his numbers should improve (if healthy). But I think it’s unlikely his production will improve so much that he’ll be more productive in 2008 than Johnson or Escobar. So I think you have to get those two guys to the plate more often.

By ippississiM

February 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

I’d love to see them break out the uniforms they had when Aaron broke the HR record.

By TBraveFan

February 22, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

DOB - Give us a week and I betcha Choppinmama and I can get that pizza delivered for ya…

And really, with this team, I’m thinking any batting order will be just fine… I just want to see them play ball!!!

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

My lineup:

Johnson Escobar Chipper Teixeira McCann Diaz Francoeur Kotsay

By Rhett Butler

February 22, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

The only hesitation I would have about putting Escobar up front is that he might be another Giles or Furcal. DOB did write that he has more pop in his bat then before. How can we be sure this young pup might not be swinging for the fences a lot?

Im not saying we shouldn’t put him up front. I would just hope someone sits down with the boy and tells him his roll.

By ncscoots

February 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

GTKid, Teixeira actually hits better righty, if I’m not mistaken.

By flange1

February 22, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Captain C,

Is that a party of 2 or 4?

By chris

February 22, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What about Kelly batting leadoff against rigties and Escobar batting leadoff against lefties?

Chris from MD

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

While a uniform traditionalist, I wouldn’t mind seeing a blue jersey - especially if it means the end of the red ones

Couldn’t agree more. Those red ones were horrid. On TV they looked orange and then the stupid new logo on the hat reminds me of the Angels in the Outfield redesign Disney did… bad stuff. I’ll be interested in the blue ones but the white ones are still the best.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if Healthy I think Kotsay would be perfect in the second spot. He has a great strikeout ratio, much better than Kelly. And Kelly backing up Francoeur just makes the line up real deep.

Mellow Mushroom. Best pizza I’ve had in a while. Love going back to Atlanta and getting one of those.

GO BRAVES!!

By MGL

February 22, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Mats lost arbitration hearing with Perez. Another $2M on the payroll - Oh well!!

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler, what was wrong with Furcal or Giles in their primes with the Braves? Furcal posted an OBP of .344 or better every year from ‘03-‘05. And Giles was above .340 every year from ‘03-‘06.

I hope someone sits down with the boy and tells him he needs to be at least that good.

By Epinephrine

February 22, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Lineup should be: Escobar, Kotsay, CJ, Tex, Frenchy, McCann, KJ, Diaz.

Assuming Kotsay is healthy, that us pretty darn imposing.

By David-ATL14

February 22, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

I love it, Escobar batting 1st with Kotsay batting 2nd.

The Rob Neyer wannabees will forecast the end of the world, just like they did when Giles was released.

KJ is a very good hitter more suited to bat lower in the order, like Chipper said. He will do a good job of protecting McCann/Frenchy and needs very little protection himself because of his plate discipline and ability to lay off pitches just off the plate.

By AdirondackDave

February 22, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

DOB — Absolutely. Can’t beat pineapple on the ole pizza. But has to be small chunks, not the big chunks. This is very important because anything less than one chunk per bite is really disappointing.

By Chris

February 22, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

I would go with Escobar over Johnson simply because he strikes out less often. Escobar averaged about one K per every 7 AB’s batting leadoff, while Johnson averged about one K per every 5 AB’s batting leadoff. Escobar will be on-base more often, and that is what hitting leadoff is all about. I would set the lineup this way: 1- Escobar 2- Johnson 3- Chipper 4- Tex 5- Francoeur 6- McCann 7- Diaz 8- Kotsay

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By ncscoots

February 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Shaun, ordinarily, I would agree that KJ should get more appearances than Kotsay. But, I also can’t ignore the increased performance from 5 and 6 when KJ hits 7 (and the eveidence from last year appears to be more than anecdotal). Like you, he’s my first choice to hit leadoff…but I’m coming around to the idea that the increased performance from 5-6-7 outweighs the decreased performance from his fewer appearances.

BTW, could you please give Ben some links on “secondary average” and “EqA” before he asks Diaz out to dinner? LOL

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By 22oz

February 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

If its likely that Kotsay will hit in the 2 hole, then you have to go with Yunel at leadoff and Kelly near the bottom. Kelly would be better suited to hit behind the big hitters, and maybe even behind Diaz as well. Plus its like having another leadoff man at the bottom of the order. Kelly gets on to start the inning, the pitcher bunts him over, and you’ve got the top of the order to drive him in. Not to mention you’d have 5 LH hitters in a row against RH pitching.

A dark blue alternate for the road would be good, sometimes the all gray gets tiresome. But count me among the few-i love the red tops. I have one of my own. Those things are sharp!

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By Rhett Butler

February 22, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Shaun Nothing wrong with Giles and Furcal’s hitting. They just didn’t make good lead off hitters because they were notorious for trying to hit home runs all the time. I would like to see a lead off man do his job and that is to get on base.

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

how about McCan in the two spot ? The guy never strikes out and gets on base a ton. He handles the bat as well as any one on the team.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Blue uniforms? Cool! But they can’t ditch the red ones! If you think they look orange, well, sorry, but they’re not. I mean “horrid”? Sheesh, dude! That’s a bit much. I remember when Chipper brought this up at the beginning of the month. He said they were sweet looking, and I have to agree. “Stupid new logo”? Geez, you’re bitter. I like the regular A better, but I wouldn’t say the other on is stupid looking.

And didn’t you read what DOB wrote?

They haven’t decided yet when they’ll be worn, but it might be a road alternate jersey.

Plus, my sister and I just got red jerseys for Christmas. (She got Johnson. You know who I got.) But it would just figure if they ditched ‘em after we each got one. That’s what kind of luck I have, anyway.

Shaun, good lineup at 12:56.

By bravos fan

February 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

hey great post DOB i got a question ? can escobar run. i know bobby doesnt run but does esco have any speed? if so i agree putting him 1st. kostay will give you a consistent bat at the 2 hole and kelly will give pitchers ulcers at the 7 spot. nice article by Bradley although dont see chipper playing until 40. those Micky Dees trips will catch up to him and boot him out of the league. or the feet or oblique will get him. anything on hudson wondering how hes doin. he needs to show me at least that last year was not a fluke after his terrible 2006 season. thanx DOB keep up the posts!!!!!!!

By Magellan

February 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Never forget Ben: BFF 4ever!

By Epinephrine

February 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Excellent stuff tsweet. Post the worst idea on the blog six times.

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

StingerSplash, Desert Brave is right: Waylon Jennings does a terrific version of Suspicious Minds. Not quite as good as Elvis’ perfection, but damn good.

THIS JUST IN: I should tell you, when I asked Bobby about leadoff and No. 2 after the workout just now, he said he thought Kelly and Escobar would work well in either order in those spots. And as for Kotsay in the 2-hole, Bobby said “We’ll see.” In other words, I think they want to make sure Kotsay holds up in games as he’s held up so far in early work.

But I still believe if Kotsay hits this spring and stays healthy, he’ll be in the 2-hole.

When I asked Kelly about it 15 minutes ago, and told him what Bobby had said, Kelly said doesn’t matter to him, that any of those combos would work, etc. He also said, “I would think Kotsay would have one of those [first] two spots.”

So we’ll see. But it did sound like Bobby is thinking about Kelly and Yunel in those first two spots. I asked about batting second, does it matter if they can hit behind the runner and move him over like Edgar did, etc, and Cox said that Yunel hits behind the runner as well as anyone, and that Kelly’s left-handed, so it’s easy for him to do it.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Over the last three years Kotsay is at .267/.321/.388. Now that’s with his home games in a tough park for hitters and a tougher league, so his numbers should improve (if healthy).

Payne: Which of the following two would you bat second?

Player A .287/.343/.425 OPS .768 K/BB 1.4
Player B .289/.346/.400 OPS .746 K/BB 1.6

Just curious.

By the way, the three years you listed were Kotsay not healthy. So if healthy, I’d imagine he’d do better than he did when he was injured.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler, oh and with Giles and Furcal in their primes and at the top of the Braves order (2003-2005) the Braves had the fourth-highest winning percentage in baseball and only one other NL team (the Cardinals) scored more runs.

By AdirondackDave

February 22, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Tsweet — Once is probably enough. Mac doesn’t work at the second spot because he doesn’t run well enough. Need to have a guy who can score from first on Chipper or Tex’s double.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Int’resting, tsweet, but don’t know if it was worth six posts.

; )

Don’t know how McCann would do batting second, though. As Mark Bowman said, he is “speed challenged”. But as far as handling the bat well and getting on base a ton, well, that is very true.

Yeah, 22oz, the red ones are sharp!! Like, totally!!

By Steve McP

February 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Rhett that is why Yunel should hit lead off. His OBP and AVG as lead off are exceptional (see DOB blog today) which shows that he is not so bothered about hitting big shots. He has also shown that he is happy in lead off, which Giles never was.

By Bay Area Steve

February 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Tsweet = Jill?

By Steve McP

February 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Rhett that is why Yunel should hit lead off. His OBP and AVG as lead off are exceptional (see DOB blog today) which shows that he is not so bothered about hitting big shots. He has also shown that he is happy in lead off, which Giles never was.

By Roman Gal

February 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Those powder blue jerseys are SOO ugly. They are almost as bad as the mustard colored unis the Padres wore. Thank goodness their not wearing those things. That said, I like the red tops.

tsweet McCann is better suited to be lower in the order. Plus, I think you have to be reasonably fast to hit at the top of the order. (Don’t yell at me McFann…)

By Josh

February 22, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Yunel has to be the leadoff hitter. He’ll have close to a .400 OBP, runs well, has a little pop, what is there not to like as a leadoff hitter? Kotsay seems tailor made to be a 2 hitter. Decent wheels, doesn’t strike out, uses the opposite field. Isn’t that what is expected of a 2 hitter? Kelly Johnson is capable of hitting anywhere in the lineup. I say put him in the 8 spot, he’ll have a chance to mature even more as a hitter in the 8 spot. I think it will help him become a more patient hitter, because with the pitcher hitting behind you, good pitches will be few and far between.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

“horrid”? Sheesh, dude! That’s a bit much. I remember when Chipper brought this up at the beginning of the month. He said they were sweet looking, and I have to agree. “Stupid new logo”? Geez, you’re bitter

Bitter? Hung-over more like it. But that doesn’t change the fact that those red jersey’s are horrid and the Disney-esque logo is stupid. I’m sure you look good in them though.

It’s almost as bad as working the color black into a Blue and Orange palette. Is it a bruise or is it just halloween?

By tsweet

February 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

sorry about all the posts… on a sidekick and didn’t think any of them went through.

By kdbanks

February 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

I like KJ leading off, mostly because I think Escobar is a better #2 hitter than anyone else in the lineup (though admittedly I know very little of Kotsay’s skill set). KJ had a .372 OBP as a leadoff guy last year - which is good in any book. Escobar’s bat control makes him perfect for the second position I think.

By fleming flash

February 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Don’t understand the logic of Escobar first and Johnson second because Johnson strike out more that Escobar. The object is to be on base ahead of Chipper and Tex so if Escobar gets on base 100 times and Johnson 90 that still totals 190 regardless of the order - Johnson first and Escobar second or Vive Versa. You’re treating 2nd the same as leadoff when it really isn’t. The job of leadoff is to get on base and steal if possible or whatever it takes to move up into scoring position. Anything to get into scoring position. The job of a 2 hitter is to move the runner along into scoring position by whatever means is possible - a hit, a bunt, hitting behind the runner. This takes a hitter with good bat control where the strikeouts by Johnson becomes a problem. Kotsey therefore if healthy and back to his old form is the better 2 hitter and Johnson should be in the 7 hole if Escobar can handle leadoff. Should have a better OBP and can steal you a base. Final judgement will be after we determine whether the sophomore slump hits Escobar.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave—

You’re correct. I think McCann should bat fifth. Maybe he cann bat sixth against lefties.

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

I would bat KJ leadoff and Escobar in the second spot. Not that I dont think Escobar cant handle the leadoff, but KJ numbers fall off so much when he isnt leading off. Also while Escobar may strike out less, KJ sees alot more pitches. I love to see the opposing pitchers pitch count high after just one batter.

Since it was on here like 7 times I guess I will address it. McCann cant hit in the 2 hole. He is too slow. If he is on first the only way you can knock him in is with a homerun. If he was faster that would be a good suggestion, but he is not. Also please only hit post once. There is a delay. It says so right under the box you put your comment in.

By Andy A

February 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Love the post and I think you might have the best job in the world for the next month or so…

I live in Charleston, SC, and I was wondering where you think Schafer will play this year? Any chance I’ll get to see him when Rome comes to town? Any other prospects in Rome I should watch for?

By GoBravos

February 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Why is it the Diaz gets no consideration for the 2 spot. He can hit a ball behind him with his eyes closed with one hand, or as I believe Joe Simpson put it last year, he could hit in a dark closet. And there was that article about him being more of a full time player.

By Greg in TN

February 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Afternoon one and all…

Give me anything with a tomahawk on the front of it, Braves or Atlanta depending on home or road or any combination thereof and I’ll be just fine. I do like the powder blue unis and I also like the Sunday reds. Just as long as we don’t look like a color chart at Sherwin Williams (like the ‘Stros 80s home unis) or like a 70s softball team (like the Sox did with those shorts) and I’m good to go.

I think Yunel, KJ and Kotsay are pretty interchangable in the 1-2 slots in the batting order (with the leadoff position being either Yunel or KJ and as long as Kotsay has a healthy back).

If I had to scribble a lineup card and everyone was 100% and ready, my top four would be Yunel, Kotsay, Chipper and Tex.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Shaun Nothing wrong with Giles and Furcal’s hitting. They just didn’t make good lead off hitters because they were notorious for trying to hit home runs all the time. I would like to see a lead off man do his job and that is to get on base.

That’s my point, Furcal and Giles got on base plenty. (See the Braves run scoring totals and their record in ‘03-‘05, when Furcal and Giles were at the top of the lineup and in their primes.)

By Baron

February 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

If the 32 year old Mark Kotsay makes it all the way back, and by that I mean all the way back to his best season of 2004 (age 28), we will get an OBP of .370 and SLG of .429. KJ put up .375 and .457 last season, his first full year in the majors, at the age of 25.

So, yeah, KJ probably has more power, but he’s also probably got more on-base ability. Ergo, he is probably a better hitter!

I’d think it’s elementary SABRE theory that you’d want a better hitter higher in the line-up since he’s likely to get more at-bats and thus likely produce more runs. Maybe I’m crazy, but I’m not sure why this conversation is even taking place.

If Kotsay comes out of spring training like a firecracker and KJ suffers a junior slump then fine, by all means, bat Kots 2 and KJ 7 or 8. But until proven otherwise it should be KJ’s spot to lose.

Furthermore, don’t forget that Matt “The Bat” Diaz went for .364/.368 OBP and .475/.497 SLG over the last two seasons, so how does it make sense to bat KJ or Kotsay in front of him?

Kotsay’s the 8 hole hitter on this team, period, and maybe the 9 if Hampton is pitching. He’s broken .800 OPS exactly 3 times in his 9 more or less full seasons. Not great.

Don’t want to crap on the guy, BTW. If he can manage to play a decent center for 140+ games and give us maybe a .350 OBP he will have done his job. Anything above would be gravy.

By GoBravos

February 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

I like the red unis but the hat has to go. A tomohawk through the A, tacky. IM excited about the new blue ones too.

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Josh,”Kelly Johnson is capable of hitting anywhere in the lineup. I say put him in the 8 spot, he’ll have a chance to mature even more as a hitter in the 8 spot. I think it will help him become a more patient hitter.” He is already our most patient hitter.

Also I personnally didnt like the red jerseys when they first came out, but they grew on me. As for the powderblues, there were ugly. Unless you are North Carolina or the San Diego Chargers(by the way best jerseys ever) you should not where powderblue.

By mr baseball

February 22, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

As I said the last time the top of the batting order was the topic for discussion, by far the most logical arrangement is KJ 1 and Escober 2. Since neither is a stolen base threat, that factor is out. It might be preferable to have a lefty hit 2nd, but given the Braves lineup, a righty in the 2 hole is a better fit.

If KJ or Kotsay bats 2nd, you’re begging opposing managers to go to a lefty reliever starting with the 2 hitter and leaving him on the mound for Chipper, Tex and McCann. KJ has more pop in his bat than Escobar, and having a leadoff hitter with some power is a nice bonus. And since the Braves aren’t going to run much, there really isn’t any difference between batting 1st or 2nd.

The 1-2 hitters are going to get at least 100-125 more ABs than the 7-8 hitters. Unless Kotsay is 100 percent back to his pre-back injury form, you don’t need him getting that many more ABs than KJ.

The bigger decision Cox is going to have to make is whether KJ hits at the top of the lineup against lefties. If you swap him and Diaz, you’re bunching the lefties (McCann-KJ-Kotsay) together at the bottom of the order, which is not a great idea. One solution is to rest McCann primarily against lefties and not revive the Greg Maddux personal catcher routine. Use Javy when its most advantageous for the team offensively, not as the sole catcher for some pitcher.

One last thing. Will somebody please tell Chance the Manager that asking your No. 2 hitter to bunt after the leadoff hit reaches base to open the game is NEVER NEVER NEVER a smart move, unless someone like Chris Woodward is batting in the 2 hole. With this lineup, the only guys you should be giving the bunt sign to are the pitchers and maybe Infante on the days he’s filling in for somebody. I don’t think Cox got the memo that bunting outlived its usefulness sometime before the introduction of leisure suits.

By FJR

February 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Assuming Diaz plays every day

Lefties:

1)Escobar 2)Kotsay 7)Diaz 8)KJ

Righties: 1)KJ 2)Diaz 7)Escobar 8)Kotsay

With a Brandon Jones/Diaz platoon:

Lefties: 1)Escobar 2)Kotsay 7)Diaz 8)KJ

Righties: 1)KJ 2)Diaz 7)Escobar 8)Kotsay

By Roman Gal

February 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Andy A Rome is going to have an AWESOME rotation this year. I think Rohrbough, Locke, and Hanson are supposed to be there. I also think that Heyward and Johnson are going to be in Rome…if not to start the year, at some point.

By FJR

February 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

oops, meant to replace BJ with Diaz against righties in the second scenario, obviously, haha.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, that’s tough. Either of those player would be fine with me in the #2 spot—not much difference in those two. Guess it depends on what the rest of the lineup looks like. I suppose if I had to choose, I’d go with the higher OBP in the leadoff spot. (I’m also assuming these players played roughly the same amount of games in the same park and they are roughly the same age, otherwise my decision may be different.)

Yes, I realize those seasons were seasons in which Kotsay was injured but is that a good argument for Kotsay batting higher in the order or against? I mean, if Kotsay hasn’t shown he’s healthy enough to be as productive as Johnson and Escobar are likely to be, why should he bat in one of the top two spots over one those two?

But, yeah, I understand your point. And if Kotsay is healthy and hasn’t declined from his ‘04 abilities, I have no problem with him batting higher in the order. But right now I would guess his production is never going to be quite that good again and/or he’s never going to be quite that healthy again.

Just to make it clear: I’m not trying to down Kotsay, and I think it was a fine move for the Braves to get him. But I just don’t think he should be getting perhaps more plate appearances than anyone and he shouldn’t be in the on-base spots in the order over some other Braves hitters.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

February 22, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Check out the main ajc.com sports page for pics of two Braves uniforms from a shoot today. Not sure if either of them are the ones that will be used but …

By 22oz

February 22, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are about to go into the 12 year recession that Jill spoke of last night, maybe they should bring back the powder blues. Sorry, it had to be said, and if you missed it, you’re better off.

By Rhett Butler

February 22, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun I don’t have time to look up on base percentages and compare them to other standout lead off men in the league during that time nor do I want to spend the time reviewing total Ks for both of them in that position compaired to others. All im trying to say is that Furgy and Gillie were known to swing for the fences a lot more then your average lead off man. Would you agree and would you rather have someone at lead off who wants to get on base (i.e get a walk or two) or try to hit home runs at each bat and strike out?

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Josh Anderson has impressed everyone so far in camp, and his center-field experience makes him a logical candidate for the fourth-outfielder job, according to one Braves person I talked to (not a player). Anderson’s 40 stolen bases last season is also attractive.

Brandon Jones hasn’t played CF except for winter ball, and the Braves need someone who could play plenty of games in CF, given Kotsay’s injury history in recent seasons.

By Scott

February 22, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

As far as who bats at the top of the order, the good news is that the Braves have options, the bad news is that nobody jumps out as the obvious choice. The order may change as the year goes on to see what works best.

From my perspective, I would go with Yunel at leadoff. Either KJ or Kotsay would be fine at the second slot, although KJ’s got that great short stroke to right field and with Escobar on 1st that makes for a big hole.

DOB, as you laid it out, by biggest concern may be that you’re leaving Diaz for the 8th slot. He’s too clutch a hitter for 8th, where he won’t see any good pitches.

By BrandonC

February 22, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

I think it will switch based on righty/lefty matchups. They are both good candidates for the leadoff hitter. But I do agree with most about Kotsay in the 2 hole.

Oh, and am I wrong in thinking that it’s weird Schafer already has a deal with Nike? Is it normal for somebody who hasn’t played above A-Ball to be endorsed already? They must see what the Braves and all there fans see, Jordan is the real deal.

And I hope they start wearing some Blue jersey’s as well, I love when they switch things up a bit.

By PAPA 10

February 22, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Good news on Gonzalez He will reelly help solidify bullpen this year and Soriano will benefit also

By DonCoburleone

February 22, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I guess I can see the argument for Mark Kotsay in the 2 hole, but I have serious doubts about that back of his holding up for anything more than 120 games… I can’t think of any off the top of my head, but I bet if you were to look at past players who have had back problems (and eventual surgery) you’d find that the overwhelming majority of them never returned to the player they were before. I personally think we’d be extremely lucky to get 120 games and a .260/.310/.370 line out of him in 2008, but then again I am no Doctor so I could be wrong (I hope I’m wrong)…

Anyway, back to my original point, I think it would be better to just put Yunel and KJ 1-2 in the order and have Kotsay hit either 7 or 8, depending on the pitcher. That way Kotsay can feel less pressure hitting down there and if he does go down, we only have to worry about the bottom of the order, not the top…

By The Man

February 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Lineup should be: Escobar, Kotsay, CJ, Tex, Frenchy, McCann, KJ, Diaz.

Worth repeating - this is how I would start the season if I was Cox.

Dwight Youkam does a good remake of Suspicious Minds also.

Would not susprise me if Josh Anderson beat someone out (B. Jones) for the 4th outfield position … at least for the beginning of the season.

By ncscoots

February 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

[Diaz is] too clutch a hitter for 8th, where he won’t see any good pitches.

What makes you think Diaz waits for good pitches, LOL?

By 22oz

February 22, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

I hope that picture on the main page means we’ll see the Braves wear one of the old Boston uni’s (there were many) in a game or two. I put that in my suggestions in last year’s survey, so obviously they’re doing this because of me.

By PAPA 10

February 22, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Escobar showed enough last year for bcox 2 bat him leadoff and Kotsay is a veteran hitter with quality at bats in the 2 hole

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler to answer your 2:09 post, it depends how successful they are at hitting homeruns. Jose Reyes is the best leadoff hitter in baseball and he hits quite a few homeruns for a leadoff hitter. Ricky Henderson is probably the greatest leadoff hitter ever and he had almost 300 homeruns in his career. So if the leadoff hitter can still get on base frequently enough, which Furcal did, and hit some homeruns I see no problem in it.

By Baron

February 22, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I should have predicated my previous post on the idea that Escobar bat lead-off.

KJ and Yuni are kind of interchangeable, except I think KJ might be better suited to bat 2 for the perhaps counter-intuitive reason that he strikes out at a higher rate. One thing we know for sure is that no one ever hit into a double play by striking out. Given that they may have similar OBP, and that Escobar be a little faster, I like Escobar to maybe beat out an infield hit leading off, and KJ to either advance him with a walk or a hit or to just strikeout and avoid the DP. Also, KJ saw 4.12 pitches per AB in both 2005 and 2007- pretty consistent- and also pretty excellent. Chipper’s career average, by way of comparison, is 3.68. Escobar saw 3.54. So bat KJ second and give Escobar a few more pitches to try to run on if you are feeling larcenous.

And Kotsay, you ask? career 3.51. Do not try to tell me that he has more plate discipline. He simply does not.

Also, the argument that says Kotsay is a good #2 but not a good candidate to “protect” Frenchy/BMac/Diaz from the 7 or 8- explain, please? Someone said “KJ can hit anywhere in the lineup.” Yes, and he does it better than Kotsay. Why would we give Kotsay, a lesser hitter, more AB’s?

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

batting KJ in the two hole would be somewhat counter produtive.

the guy is getting bigger, stronger, and more experienced. let him hit in the 7 hole and grip it and rip it. i think there are 20 plus, and 40 doubles in that bat from the seven hole.

kotsay is the key. if healthy could be a perfect 2 hitter. think PAUL O’NEIL. paitient, contact hitter that will make a pitcher work.

1,2, and 7 probably just as impotant as 4 and 5 in the rotation.

By kdbanks

February 22, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

I say we figure a way to get Vlad Guerrero and Matty Diaz in a bad pitch hitting contest. All of the pitches would be outside the strike zone and you’d award points based on how far outside the zone the pitch is + how far the ball is hit.

That’d fill an hour or two on ESPN9.

By Mr J

February 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Assuming Kotsay has regained his form, I think he should bat 2nd. let the veteran worry about advancing runners and situational hitting.

I also think KJ should bat 5th and McCann 7th, instead of the reverse. The reasoning is that if KJ and McCann are roughly equal in BA and RBI power potential, wouldn’t it make more sense to have the slower McCann chasing the faster KJ around the bases?

I think Diaz is the perfect 8th hitter because of his style. He’s a tough man to walk, and with the pitcher behind you thats a plus. Also, there doesn’t seem to be an ego problem with Diaz that might make him chafe at the idea of the 8th spot.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler, I’m not sure if Furcal and Giles “were known to swing for the fences a lot more then your average lead off man.” I just know Furcal and Giles got on base at good rates when they were in their primes and the Braves scored an awful lot of runs and won an awful lot of games when they were at the top of the lineup together. So I don’t think if they did swing for the fences or struck out a lot, it certainly didn’t seem to affect their abilities to get on base at decent rates.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Payne: Player A, the one with the higher OPS and better K/BB ratio is Kotsay prior to injury. Player B, the one with only 3 more points on his OBP and 25 fewer points on his SLG to go with a higher K/BB rate is Renteria prior to being a Brave. Both sets of numbers are over a similar sample size and they are the same age. Though Kotsay did play most of those games in, well, the worst hitters parks in the majors (OAK, SD, FLA).
We know Renteria in the second spot produced a lot of runs. We’ll have to see if Kotsay is healthy.

I don’t know what Kotsay will be capable of this season but if he can get himself healthy enough to play I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect him to produce well. Good thing we have Spring Training though. Test him out.
But I do have to admit, the improvement of Francoeur when KJ was behind him was worth it.

I don’t think it will be an issue to have the order go R, L, S, S, L, R, L, L/R P. The opposing manager can get all giddy if he wants seeing the chance to stick a left handed hitter on the mound to attack Chipper and Teixeira, but I don’t think it’ll help them much. Chipper is still solid from the right side and Teixeira is even better from the Right side than he is from the left.

By DonCoburleone

February 22, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

So what are you saying then DOB? Do you think Brandon Jones will start the year in AAA?

By chrisklob

February 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Andy A, I live in Charleston also. Schaffer played for Rome at the beginning of last year before being promoted to Myrtle Beach. My guess is that he’ll move up to Mississippi this year.

Roman Gal is right. Rome should have a terrific squad this year. Good news is that they come to Charleston four times in 2008.

By MGL

February 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

OK, suppose Josh Anderson makes the team and is playing (Kotsay rest day) Now what do you do with the lineup with his speed??

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

uga-brave, why would it be counterproductive to put a good hitter in a spot where he’d get more plate appearances (number two as opposed to number seven) and where he’d be on base in front of several power hitters? I’m not sure I understand.

By The Man

February 22, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Jill

Where are you. Waiting with anticipation on your topic today. Don’t let any blog bullies scare you off…I sure as heck don’t.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Guess that should read “left handed pitcher”.

By LT-AA blogger

February 22, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

I would like to see Escobar 1. I would give Kotsay a chance at 2 but not longer than 40 games if he isn’t producing. 3&4 easy. Then Mac, French, KJ, and whoevers in right.

If Kotsay isn’t hitting but still playing effective D, will Bobby just throw him down to the 8 hole, or is it possible Anderson or even Schafer get a shot at center?

By Baron

February 22, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

UGA-Brave, I like your optimism. But I’d like you and all the rest of the Kotsay for #2 proponents to consider this:

Any inning (could be ANY, other than the first) could feature the #8 hitter leading off. So your patient, disciplined (not as disciplined as KJ, but still) contact hitting Kotsay, batting in that 8 hole, could be leading off any inning. Of course he gets on base and is bunted over by a pitcher or not. Then he’s advanced and/or scored by Yunel. So he’s probably already scored but if not, at least he’s on base. Who strides to the plate to clean up? The bigger, stronger, grippin’ and rippin’ KJ. Two-run HR or run scoring 2B! Braves lead 7-0!

See, everyone wins here, and as an added bonus, KJ has already hit at least one HR or one 2B before Kotsay has come to the plate even once!

By The Man

February 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

OK, suppose Josh Anderson makes the team and is playing (Kotsay rest day) Now what do you do with the lineup with his speed??

Well I suppose you give him the green light if he reaches base and no one is on base ahead of him. I don’t think you have to bat lead-off to steal a base.

Of course Cox is not exactly use to much speed. So this could be a mind boggling decision on his part.

By Willy

February 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

DOB - Braves still scheduled to have physicals this weekend? If so, does that mean workouts will begin around noon both Saturday & Sunday?

By jim

February 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

I think that all of the statistics being cited for why Yunel, or KJ should bat 1, 2, 7, 8, ?, is based on way too little data. Yunel has only been in the majors for 1/2 season and KJ just completed his first full season at a new position. He was also still recovering from the effects of his surgery. The batting order will work its way out during the course of the spring and first month of the season.

If it works out to be Yunel, Kotsay in 1 and 2 hole, then I would consider batting KJ 6th and McCann 7th, assuming KJs patience and sweet swing translate into him becoming a 290-300 hitter with 20 HR potential. Both hitters would have similar OBP and power numbers and KJs better speed and base-running abilities would be better served batting in front of McCann. In any case, if we are choosing the 8th hitter from Diaz, KJ, Yunel, Kotsay, or McCann, we should be in great shape. It is good to know that the number of free swingers in our lineup is now down to 2 or 3 (Francouer and Diaz, possibly Yunel). We should have a much more consistent offense this year with the ability to get into the bullpen a bit sooner.

By Brave to stay

February 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Escobar in the first hole, Kelly setting the table for Frenchy and McCann followed by 300 hitting Diaz. Best 1234,1234 punch in the NL. DAVID what the heck do you meam by the Dark Star reference? I have no clue what you mean by that.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, good points about Renteria and Kotsay. And I agree that Kotsay will be fine if healthy. I just don’t know think he’ll be as good as Johnson or Escobar and it’s possible he may not be as healthy.

Thing is Renteria wasn’t as old as Kotsay is now when he came to the Braves and Renteria did not have three consecutive poor, injury-plagued seasons.

Like I say, I see nothing wrong with Kotsay, if healthy. I just don’t think he’ll be as good at Escobar and Johnson.

By Cameron Chambers

February 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Ok, I think if I was the manager the lineup would be,

Also ill give my predictions on how many HRs each will have, SS Yunel Escobar, 15-20 HRs 2B Kelly Johnson, 20-25 HRs 3B Chipper Jones, 35-40 HRs 1B Mark Texeria, 40-45 HRs RF Jeff Francoeur, 30-35 Hrs C Brian McCann, 25-30 HRs CF Mark Kotsay, 10-15 HRs LF Matt Diaz, 10-15 HRs

Escobar is a great hitter so he could get a lot of hits to start the game. Kelly Johnson is a good hitter and is a lefty, hit and run? If not Kelly would be great at getting him over. Then Chipper and Texeria are the two big RBI guys in the middle. Francoeur has added muscle so thats great power and average to back up Chip and Tex. McCann is also a great hitter, powerful and can also hit for a great average. If Kotsay is healthy, hes a great contact hitter down at the bottom of the lineup. And you all know what Matt Diaz is capable of, hes an on base machine with a great average off righties and lefties. The pitchers the braves have arnt bad hitters either, but a good bunt from then to get a runner over and its back to the front with escobar who could always come through in any situation.

And my pitching rotation, 1. John Smoltzs 2. Tim Hudson 3. Tom Glavine 4. Mike Hampton(I Think He Will Be Healthy) 5. Jair Jurrjens

By Cameron Chambers

February 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Ok, I think if I was the manager the lineup would be,

Also ill give my predictions on how many HRs each will have, SS Yunel Escobar, 15-20 HRs 2B Kelly Johnson, 20-25 HRs 3B Chipper Jones, 35-40 HRs 1B Mark Texeria, 40-45 HRs RF Jeff Francoeur, 30-35 Hrs C Brian McCann, 25-30 HRs CF Mark Kotsay, 10-15 HRs LF Matt Diaz, 10-15 HRs

Escobar is a great hitter so he could get a lot of hits to start the game. Kelly Johnson is a good hitter and is a lefty, hit and run? If not Kelly would be great at getting him over. Then Chipper and Texeria are the two big RBI guys in the middle. Francoeur has added muscle so thats great power and average to back up Chip and Tex. McCann is also a great hitter, powerful and can also hit for a great average. If Kotsay is healthy, hes a great contact hitter down at the bottom of the lineup. And you all know what Matt Diaz is capable of, hes an on base machine with a great average off righties and lefties. The pitchers the braves have arnt bad hitters either, but a good bunt from then to get a runner over and its back to the front with escobar who could always come through in any situation.

And my pitching rotation, 1. John Smoltzs 2. Tim Hudson 3. Tom Glavine 4. Mike Hampton(I Think He Will Be Healthy) 5. Jair Jurrjens

By Cameron Chambers

February 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Ok, I think if I was the manager the lineup would be,

Also ill give my predictions on how many HRs each will have, SS Yunel Escobar, 15-20 HRs 2B Kelly Johnson, 20-25 HRs 3B Chipper Jones, 35-40 HRs 1B Mark Texeria, 40-45 HRs RF Jeff Francoeur, 30-35 Hrs C Brian McCann, 25-30 HRs CF Mark Kotsay, 10-15 HRs LF Matt Diaz, 10-15 HRs

Escobar is a great hitter so he could get a lot of hits to start the game. Kelly Johnson is a good hitter and is a lefty, hit and run? If not Kelly would be great at getting him over. Then Chipper and Texeria are the two big RBI guys in the middle. Francoeur has added muscle so thats great power and average to back up Chip and Tex. McCann is also a great hitter, powerful and can also hit for a great average. If Kotsay is healthy, hes a great contact hitter down at the bottom of the lineup. And you all know what Matt Diaz is capable of, hes an on base machine with a great average off righties and lefties. The pitchers the braves have arnt bad hitters either, but a good bunt from then to get a runner over and its back to the front with escobar who could always come through in any situation.

And my pitching rotation, 1. John Smoltzs 2. Tim Hudson 3. Tom Glavine 4. Mike Hampton(I Think He Will Be Healthy) 5. Jair Jurrjens

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

MGL, I don’t think Anderson speed is an issue. The question is can he post an impressive enough OBP so that he deserves a shot at a spot at the top of the order.

By Andy K.

February 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

DOB:Is something wrong with Former Braves 1B/OF Craig Wilson? Like on a mental/physical standpoint? Because the Cincinnati Reds already released him, only a few days into Spring. Any idea?

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

shaun,

just an opinion, but most two hitters are bat handlers that are capable of moving baserunners along.

KJ is capable of this, but that would circumvent some of his potential power. there were times last year when KJ was probably too patient, note the high K numbers.

my point is from a player developmnet standpoint. i would like to see kj get more agressive.

if he hits in the 2 hole, it could stunt some of his potential.

mechanically he probably has the second best approach on the team.

like i said shaun, just an opinion that has to do with the potential of a particular player.

By Josh H

February 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Respond to a few things:

Kelly Johnson is capable of hitting anywhere in the lineup. I say put him in the 8 spot, he’ll have a chance to mature even more as a hitter in the 8 spot. I think it will help him become a more patient hitter, because with the pitcher hitting behind you, good pitches will be few and far between. - By Josh

Kelly has no problem taking a walk. I firmly disagree that the eight hole is not the place for him. I like him batting second.

Agreed, in that Matt “Ted Williams” Diaz doesn’t exactly wait for a good pitch :)

Oh, and Kelly did have 10 triples last year. Guy is plenty fast, not Lillibridge fast, but is a threat to steal if allowed to. Escobar, I’m not so sure about. I remember watching a game last year when he was legging out a double, and he seemed to be taking really long strides and just not moving that fast. Maybe he’s quick, but doesn’t have a very high top speed? Anyone have an opinion on that?

By DonCoburleone

February 22, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Braves 25 Man Roster according to DonCoburleone:

Starting Lineup: Yunel Escobar, Kelly Johnson, Chipper Jones, Mark Teixera, Jeff Francoeur, Brian McCann, Matt Diaz, Mark Kotsay;

Bench: Javy Lopez (c), Scott Thorman (1B), Martin Prado (2B,3B), Josh Anderson (OF), Omar Infante (2B,SS,3B)- Lillibridge if Infante is still on the DL…

Rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, Jurrjens

Bullpen: Soriano, Moylan, Yates, Acosta, Ohman, Boyer, Bennet

Provisions: 1) I am assuming Hampton won’t be healthy - if he is he takes Jurrjens spot in the rotation. 2) I would explore trading Scott Thorman - Just make Diaz the backup 1B, that way you could keep Brandon Jones on the team and platoon him in LF with Diaz. 3) If Cox is going to require 2 lefties in the pen then I am not sure what you do - possibly send Acosta down to the minors and keep Boyer since he has no options left; I don’t want to lose Boyer, I think he can be really good…

So what do you guys think???

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

uga-brave, what better way to move runners along than to get on base?

You don’t want someone in the number two hole, moving runners along at the expense of costing you outs. Now that’s counterproductive.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

well there probably is one thing most of us can agree on. whoever hits 2nd is going to see their fair share of fastballs.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

I think Anderson’s inability to draw walks will be death by taxes if we have to watch him for long stretches. I don’t have a problem with keeping him around if he is merely a defensive substitute and pinch runner. If Kotsay is in the second spot and he goes down requiring Anderson to play regularly, you put Anderson 8th and pray he gets on and work with your pitchers to lay the bunt down properly. Move KJ back up to 2nd, or put Diaz there, or any other guy that seems reasonable.

All of this is likely to change though. Anderson could get all ATL debut Willie Harris out there. Hopefully he’ll be benched before he turns into Willie Harris of the rest of the season.

By ppaddy123

February 22, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

AndyK, maybe it’s because Wilson SUCKS!!!!

By ppaddy123

February 22, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

The Reds thought Wilson sucked…..they brought him into camp and found out….yeah, he really does suck

By Godot

February 22, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Not that lineup construction matters that much in the end if all players are happy, but shouldn’t the consideration of who gets on base more be primary to the decision who bats in front of Chipper and Tex? And if KJ has more power, isn’t it more intuitive to bat him in front of Chipper as he is likely to see lot of fastballs? All this hitting behind the runner and bunting talk is weird. Why would you want to create outs before your two biggest boppers come out? Sure you could hit into few DPs, but with the lineup ( Chipper, Tex, Frenchy, McCann ), you don’t need a RISP to score. Just go out there and don’t make outs.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

I don’t know, perhaps someone has already posted this but, The Marlins have a stadium deal.

They will be renamed the Miami Marlins and will have a 37,000 seat retractable roof stadium in Miami with an agreement not to move for at least 35 years.

We’ll see if that means they hold onto their players longer. They did not share in parking or concession revenues at the football stadium. So there should be ample money now…

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

cameron chambers,

just so you know you are predicting that the braves starting eight are going to hit around 200 dingers. aint gonna happen, never has and probably never will.

By ugaman

February 22, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

My two cents:

I would bat KJ leadoff because of OBP and plate discipline. Escobar in the two spot because his natural swing drives the ball to right center field, which would be hitting behind the hitter. I’m not ready to assume that Kotsay is ready to have the pressure of batting at the top of the lineup when he is still getting acclimated to the team and Bobby’s style of managing, not to mention moving over to the National League after several years in the American. The game is just different over here as far as moving runners over and the strategy involved. Either way, it’s a win-win situation for Bobby. All of those guys are versital and able to produce no matter where they hit. I think our offense is going to be the best in the National League. I’m stoked about this roster!

Go Bravos!

Also, I dig the Blue Jerseys. I have thought they needed to use them for years.

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

AndyK, Ppaddy might be on to something.

By Mad Mike

February 22, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

A couple of months ago, somebody wondered if Brandon Jones could play in CF. If I remember correctly, you said the brass wasn’t considering Jones for that spot, DOB. Still hold true?

By jim

February 22, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Few, if any of us have seen Jurrjens pitch. He has pitched fewer than 50 innings in the majors (about the same as Reyes), yet we are all too ready to pencil him in as the 5th starter and relegate James to the minors/bullpen/trade block. James has won 22 games in 1 and 1/2 years, has superior numbers at every level of the minors, and, when healthy, has had an ERA below 4 in the majors.

We have heard Bobby rave about young pitchers in the first week of spring training before — two years ago it was Lerew, last year it was Harrison. Where are they now? Let’s make JJJ earn a spot in the rotation by proving that he is better than James, and if James is either not ready to start the season or gets beat out for the last rotation spot, for god’s sake don’t trade him. We won’t get anybody back that’s as good, and we have an old staff that will need an infusion of younger talent either later this year or next.

By MGL

February 22, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

uga-brave - The Brovos hit 176 last year. Three teams hit over 200 Phillies, Reds, and Marlins. Yes and I know the small park thing on the first two.

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Andy K, “DOB:Is something wrong with Former Braves 1B/OF Craig Wilson? Like on a mental/physical standpoint? Because the Cincinnati Reds already released him, only a few days into Spring. Any idea?”

Yeah, there is something wrong with him. He blows! Did you miss last season?

By Bobby's Cox

February 22, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Escobar leadoff, KJ or kotsay 2nd, the other 8th in front of the pitcher’s spot.

I agree with anderson over jones on the bench. Need more speed.

That makes B. Jones, along with thorman, trade bait.

Too bad diaz hasn’t learned to play 1st yet, so he can backup texeira if need be and we truly can trade thorman & put one of the young OF in left if tex got hurt. i just really want thorman traded i guess.

But anyways, I’m really lookng forward to this season. The pitching looks strong and the lineup will be much better than year’s past. I’ve always hated the lineup before, too many inconsistant free swinging hitters that couldn’t put the ball in play in clutch. But this year’s team is loaded with high average hitters with a mixture of guys that can go deep in counts (KJ, CJ, Tex, Kotsay, mccann, escobar). We should be able to get to bullpens in the earlier innings with this lineup.

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Willy and others wondering about WORKOUTS THIS WEEKEND: Physicals both mornings, workouts pushed back to 1 p.m. So sleep in, folks.

By Wayne in Utah

February 22, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Escobar/Kotsay, with KJ batting lower, if everyone is healthy.

I think Brandon Jones has to really bomb to go back to Richmond. If he doesn’t look like he is going to make it, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him traded, what with the other OF’ers on the horizon.

It sounds like we are assuming that Schafer is heading to Mississippi. What if he shines so much in the spring, that he forces the Braves to bring him north with them?? Not a bad problem to have. Then you have a real dilemma with what to do with Kotsay/Jones/Anderson.

Probably not going to happen that way, but it could. Just isn’t the Braves way (Escobar last year!).

By Rhett Butler

February 22, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun Im sorry if I upset your love of Gilles and Furcal and it’s a shame you don’t remember ONE of the reasons why Gilles hated hitting lead off was because he wouldn’t be able to hit as many home runs (there were other reasons, you don’t have to point them out). You will have to remember that Gilles was only lead off for the braves for like one year and that was his worst hitting average with us if I remember correctly. Im not sure where the “in their prime” stuff keeps coming up because he didn’t hit lead off in his prime. Didn’t we get rid of him the year after he was full time lead off? I liked Furcal and was sad to see him go, but I remember clearly seeing him on more then one occasion swinging for the fence when we were down by two in the bottom of the 8th with no one on base and no outs. Grant it, that doesn’t mean that he was widely known as a fence swinging nut, but it doesn’t do his reputation any good seeing him create donuts in the batters box when we just needed him to get on base. Too many times that happened for me to ever forget. That and his drunk driving escapadessssss. I will always remember Furcal as a hard throwing athletic defender and fence swinging drunkard. :) no stat will every change my mind!

By Charlie Wilson's War

February 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

“…so the zen master” — in this case, Bobby Cox — “says, ‘We’ll see.’”

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

shaun,

runner on second no one out what is the 2 hole hitters job? worst case scenario, hit a ground ball to 1st or second and get the runner to third at all costs, even if it takes a defensive swing.

there are productive outs in baseball.

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

DonC, I’m not saying Brandon Jones will start the year at Richmond. But if the Braves decide they need to have Anderson around to back up Kotsay, that’s what will happen. Too early to know, give it a week or three.

Andy, Schafer will start the season in Double-A, I’m sure.

By Longwood's Finest

February 22, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Just saw the pics from today on the frontpage… Man DOB, you weren’t lying about Yunel getting a little bigger. Boy looks beast!

By Andy K.

February 22, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Sorry, sorry…I just found it a little strange, obviously Craig hasn’t improved since he was dropped from the Braves roster. But at least we can say those days are over, we have Infante now!

By Mad Mike

February 22, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Nevermind…I re-read the 2:12 post. Crystal.

By ncscoots

February 22, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I hope you’re right, re Brandon Jones. The Braves can no longer afford to have an offensive black hole in LF as they could with Andruw in CF. Even with plus offense from C, 2B, and SS, I think the team still needs run production from both corner OF spots. And, while I wouldn’t expect Jones to be Albert Pujols as a rookie, he’s bound to provide more sock than a Diaz/Anderson combo. Mercy.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

MGL,

you are referring to the entire roster. cameron chambers was referring to the starting 8.

plenty of teams have hit 200 but not just a combination of 8.

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

MGL-what uga-braves was saying was that 8 guys will not account for 200 homeruns like Cameron Chambers is saying.

By Godot

February 22, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

uga-brave,

Runner on second, noone out. Priorities for me would be a) get him in b) get on base and let the next guy get him in. . . z) if you going to make a g******* out, atleast get him to 3B.

A productive out is still an out. Being proud of it is like saying that, hey I suck at hitting, but atleast I don’t totally suck. There are situations where its good to bunt ( say tie game, late innings ) in that scenario, but mostly, I rather the hitter not make an out.

By MGL

February 22, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Lew and Anders both missing from the blog today. A tad suspicious.

By Rhett Butler

February 22, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Ok Shaun, we have gotten way off topic here. My over all point at the beginning was that Escobar has certain traits at this point in his career that make me a little nervous. He is young, he has gained some strength and he knows it, he has also had attitude problems in the resent past (within a year or so). All of this has been mentioned in one way or another by DOB and other AJC writers. These traits and others, I believe, make him a wild card in the line up. He could take it to either extreme, be the guy trying to pad his stats, or he could toe the line and play a more traditional lead off role (ie working the count and getting on base).

I don’t know the guy and would love to here what he says about being lead off man. That very well could change my opinion of him more so than any stat could.

By Anders

February 22, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Uga-Brave

runner on second no one out what is the 2 hole hitters job?

Let Reyes steal third, then drive him in. - oops. Sorry, wrong team.

By MGL

February 22, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

uga-brave - OK, my bad

By Bobby's Cox

February 22, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Mr J

I also think KJ should bat 5th and McCann 7th, instead of the reverse. The reasoning is that if KJ and McCann are roughly equal in BA and RBI power potential, wouldn’t it make more sense to have the slower McCann chasing the faster KJ around the bases?

You’re crazy. Mccann is by FAR a much better clutch hitter than KJ. You therefore bat him 5th. And if he gets on base, you don’t worry about his speed because Frenchy will drive him in with a HR, a result of his increased size and determination to get back to 30hr a year.

By Anders

February 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

If the Braves starting 8 hit the HR’s that Cameron Chambers listed I would expect a visit from Mr. Mitchell next October.

BTW- I would imagine it would set a record for solo HR’s? I mean if everyone is hitting HR’s, who’s on base?

By Anders

February 22, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

MGL

Premature postication by you fella. I assume Lew took a day at Blizzard Beach today - just to mix things up a bit.

By jim

February 22, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Boy, are we eager for baseball. The regulars just reported 2 days ago and already we are promoting raw rookies, sending down others, and making trades based upon who will be on the roster. Let’s play a couple weeks of spring training games at least before we start making roster moves.

Please, let it be that the new physiques are the result of hard work alone! We don’t really need more HRs from our shortstop. We need him to be getting on base as consistently as he did last year and to have adequate range and quickness to play the position.

By Daybed Wagmoe

February 22, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

DOB - I picked up The Raveonettes’ new one today on iTunes, and I’m enjoying it. It sounds a lot like My Bloody Valentine, Jesus & Mary Chain, and Mazzy Star. Good rec.

Here is an interview with Bill Shanks from the other day’s interview with 960 The Ref, a radio station in Athens. It’s a good interview and worth listening for the 22 (or however many) minutes. He actually chiimes in on the leadoff, 2nd and 7th batting spots in the lineup. Good stuff.

By Bay Area Steve

February 22, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

I like Esco at 2. Prototypical right-center approach. Puts KJ leading off for me.

Bet: who’ll give me odds that Escobar decapitates some unlucky LHP?

By Eric from MO

February 22, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler what was Escobar’s attitude problems. Im not being a smartazz I just have no clue what you are talking about.

By Mad Mike

February 22, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Godot Guess you’re not a fan of the bunt either?

When you’re watching a game this season, keep your eye on the dugout after somebody has grounded out and “advanced the runner.” You’re prolly gonna see a few high-fives from the rest of the team. Remember…baseball is a sport in which you are considered quite successful for failing, on average, 2 out of 3 times.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Here is something for you Braves fans who are ESPN Insiders.

By matlanta

February 22, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

having a few options for leadoff is a very nice problem to have. i remember not too long ago when marcus giles was pretty much the only logical choice for the top of the lineup after furcal shipped out to l.a. i really don’t care who bats leadoff — whether it’s escobar or johnson, i think the braves will be just fine in that spot of the order.

by the way, judging from that picture of escobar in today’s photos, our new shortstop looks pretty darn healthy and ready to impress a lot of people this year.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Godot,

of course a base hit is #1 priority in that situation. my point is we stunk at situational hitting last year. had trouble hitting behind runners all year and struggled to get bunts down in key situations.

look i have my doubts about kotsay’s back but when healthy he has produced adequately. i think there is something to having a vet in the 2 hole.

By FJR

February 22, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Has there been any talk of a 3-way platoon of Anderson, Kotsay and Diaz.

ie there is 162 games X 2 positions = 324 games. 324 games / 3 players = 108 games a piece. Just as a starting point. I’d probably play Anderson a little less and Diaz and Kotsay a little more. But I wouldn’t play Diaz or Kotsay much more than 125 games, as I think with Diaz you don’t want to fix what isn’t broken, he seems to play best when he’s fresh. Kotsay, I think his health would greatly benefit from having a couple of days off a week. Anderson probably wouldn’t have to play much more than 1/3 of the time against lefties (unless Kotsay got injured), while Diaz and Kotsay would play about half the time v. righties. (obviously Diaz and kotsay would play every game against lefties and anderson most games against righties).

By Mad Mike

February 22, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

ESPN sucks.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

OK, well, finally got a chance to check back here. Let’s see…

Roman Gal—

I won’t yell at you, and for one very good reason: I agree 100%! I like McCann batting fifth, and do not think he’d be a very goo option in the 2 hole when we have such faster options. And you’re correct about something else, too: Those yellow jerseys the Padres had were ugley!! And the red jerseys that the Braves have are not.

10Paul—

So maybe “bitter” was the wrong word, but hey, I was somewhat in a rush and didn’t have time o think of a better one. I still don’t think the logo is stupid. And what’s wrong with Angels in the Outfield? (OK, sorry. But I do like it…)

Oh, and the black for the Mets? That’s a bruise.

By Greg in TN

February 22, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Since I wished McCann a happy birthday a few days ago, I would be remiss in not wishing the same for Kelly Johnson, who turns 26 today.

By Willy

February 22, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB.

By ncscoots

February 22, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Wow, DOB, the lead produced a lot of leadoff angst…I can feel it. Lots of action on the blog today, mucho superbo.

Can’t wait to see a few actual AB’s to see if any of the posts today make any sense, whatsoever, in a universe actually inhabited by humans, LOL.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

A productive out is still an out. Being proud of it is like saying that, hey I suck at hitting, but atleast I don’t totally suck

I’d disagree. It is a very rare and amazing season when a hitter reaches base more often than he creates an out. For the rest of baseball every single hitter makes outs more frequently than not. Payne loves to promote the OBP as the “out avoiding” stat. Invert it to see that between 60% and 70% of the time the hitter is making an out. Why would it be a celebration of suckitude to make that 60-70% productive? I’m not trying to say bunt all the time, but why celebrate a guy that either gets on, or leaves everyone where they are standing over a guy who either gets on or moves the runners over. I’d pefer the more “productive” guy. The one that can move a runner over, or at least offer the opportunity for the runner to move, even in the event of making an out.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Rhett Butler, I’m sure Tony Womack liked being a leadoff man. I’m sure Juan Pierre would like to be a leadoff man. If they said they liked being leadoff men, would that change your opinion of them as leadoff men? (Geez, I’d hope not!)

Grant it, that doesn’t mean that [Furcal] was widely known as a fence swinging nut, but it doesn’t do his reputation any good seeing him create donuts in the batters box when we just needed him to get on base.

Umm…again, point is Furcal did get on base at a very good rate with the Braves. But you wouldn’t know because you seem to only trust what Furcal says or what you think you remember and not any sort of indicators that would help to tell you whether or not Furcal got on base at a good rate.

By Godot

February 22, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Mad Mike,

Sure you going to not get a hit bunch of times, and given that, why would you freely give up an out? As I said, I don’t mind bunts but I don’t think its right to bunt when you got the middle of your order coming up in the first inning.

And as for the high fives in the dugouts, players get that everytime they do anything useful. They would get it if they hit sac flies or if they hit a HR. Doesn’t make it right then for you to try and hit sac flies! You try and be your most productive, and if you get something out of it, good! But aiming low is not a good sign if your main job is to get hits.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

February 22, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Mad Mike, any particular reason ESPN sucks?

By Choppinmama

February 22, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

TBravesFan: I think a delivered MM pizza should be worth a couple of bp field credentials, don’t you? ;-)

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

runner on second no one out what is the 2 hole hitters job? worst case scenario, hit a ground ball to 1st or second and get the runner to third at all costs, even if it takes a defensive swing.

there are productive outs in baseball.

If the two-hole hitter comes up with a runner on second, I think the best case scenario is for him to hit a 2-run homer. Next best, probably a triple, then a double, then a single, then a walk, then a ground out to the right side or a sac fly, then an out that doesn’t advance the runner, then a double-play, in that order.

So what is the two-hold hitters job? Well, any hitter’s job is to create runs. And there are some things he could do to help create runs more than other things, or to create more runs than other things would.

I guess you could call an out that advances the runner a productive out. But I’d rather try to have a guy that could hit a homer or an extra-base hit or get on base any way over a guy who could make a “productive out.” A productive out is pretty far down on the list of scenarios I’d like to see.

By DonCoburleone

February 22, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun just copy and post the article on here from ESPN Insider - I refuse to pay for baseball information!

By McFann

February 22, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Good point, Greg.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, good points about productive outs. But I’d try to load my team with guys who get as many base hits and avoid outs as often as possible. I’d load my team with guys who can give produce the best case scenario as often as possible rather than guys who can make productive outs with the best of them. Maybe when someone shows me productive outs lead to more runs than extra-bases and fewer outs, I’d be convinced that teams should concentrate on acquiring hitters that make productive outs rather than guys who make fewer outs and hit lots of extra-base hits.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Robert (CIB), does he have to have a reason?

OK, sorry. I have an ESPN article under my bed––*UH…in my room!! Heh heh.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Chuck James, who is battling back from a tear that was detected in his left elbow in October
Mark Bowman

I thought it was his Rotator Cuff which is in the shoulder right?

Payne: You seem to see the world as all or nothing. Unfortunately you take the field with the team you have, not necessarily the team you want. This is real life and not a fantasy league so while you’d like to load your team with guys who can give produce the best case scenario as often as possible you don’t always get that choice. And secondly, I’m not sure the umps would let the hitters walk out there with all that produce nor what the hitter plans on doing with said produce.

Also, the premise of the post on skill set wasn’t either/or as in either Barry Bonds or a guy who can lay down a bunt. The point was to get a hitter that is good and has an ability to make his outs productive in addition to being a productive hitter at the plate as opposed to a hitter that is good but tends to make less productive outs.

By Noch-a-homa

February 22, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Who should leadoff? If the Braves are looking for speed and steals, someone to disrupt the bases I don’t think they have that player, unless it’s Josh Anderson, but he’s unproven at the MLB level. I really like Escobar and KJ but not as lead off guys. But since we do not seem to have a true leadoff guy I’d lean toward Escobar and hope he proves me wrong.

By Lew

February 22, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

Long, hot day today denizens. The Grinch is on his way to the Orlando homestead.

Got to meet Buster Olney today. Turns out he is from Vermont and his family lives two miles down the road from our house.

Glavine threw lots of foul balls today-except for one Frenchy parked on top of the roof of the batting cages, about 400 something feet away. Only one I ever saw longer there was hit by Andruw several years back.

Asked Kelly Johnson yesterday where he would bat in the order-his reply “Anywhere between first and eighth or anywhere in between.” He claims it doesn’t matter to him one way or another.

Saw Anderson come in about 100 feet on a ball hit to center today. He shoe stringed it. Great catch. The guy can flat out motor. He is VERY fast. Got a great break on the ball, too.

MGL-Journalist Jimmy Smith will not blog toes here anymore. His choice. I’ve tried to talk to him, but he’s made his decision.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

February 22, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox will mix and match his lineups according to the opposing team and pitcher , I don’t think we will see one particular player at the top of the batting order.

Josh Anderson fits the bill with his speed , stolen bases and ability to get on base. But , we know he will probably be the fourth outfielder at best.

Both Escobar and Johnson saw duty last season batting in the lead off hole , I expect much of the same this season.

Mark Kotsay is the other option. However , Kotsay is more likely to hit in the two hole in front of Chipper or see action hitting eighth , depending on the opponent.

Teixeira hitting clean up and Chipper in the three hole is pretty much set in stone , the rest of the lineup will fluctuate because Cox will try to use different lineups in order to give the Braves an advantage over the opponent in any given contest.

By Utica Club

February 22, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Daybed- thanks for the link. good stuff. keep em coming if you hear more.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul, with me it’s all or nothing?

I gave a list of scenarios with a runner on second in order of what I’d like from my hitter:

1. homerun

2. extra-base hit

3. single

4. walk

5. An out that advanced the runner

6. An out that keeps the runner on second

7. A double play

I’ll take a hitter that is more likely to do 1. and least likely to do 7. And that ranking is an order of importance insofar as what I’d want out of hitters. You are the one who is making this an either/or proposition—productive out or non-productive out.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Also, the premise of the post on skill set wasn’t either/or as in either Barry Bonds or a guy who can lay down a bunt.

I know. It’s either a homer, some other extra-base hit, a single, a walk, an out that advances the runner, an out that doesn’t or a double play.

I’ll rank hitters that I want on the bases of my rankings of these several outcomes. And I’ll let you rank hitters on the basis of whether a hitter can make a productive out or not (just two outcomes).

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, also, you say you take the field with the team you have not the team you want. Well, my point is that if the team you have is not full of guys with better on-base ability than most or better extra-base hitting ability than most, your team isn’t going to score as many runs; doesn’t matter how many hitter you have that are capable of making “productive outs.”

If someone can show me that ability to make productive outs is even close to as important as on-base ability or extra-base ability, then I will be convinced that baseball GMs should pay attention to that.

By Andy LA

February 22, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Now that the Braves have had two whole days to work out as a team: Predictions!!

Lineup:

1. Yunnel(he will steal some bases)
2. Diaz (he deserves it)
3. Chipper
4. Tex
5. Frenchy
6. McCann
7. Kotsay
8. KJ

Rotation

1. Hudson
2. Glavine
3. Smotlz
4. Hampton
5. JJ

I think the braves would be better with Diaz in the second hole—and KJ in the 8th. Also I think Smotlz will do better 3rd in the rotation than second(weaker pitching to deal with)—and it gives the rotation a lefty then a righty feel. I am sure more folks in the know will be like—NOOOO! Diaz will hit 8th and Kotsay will hit 2nd and KJ 7th—but I like KJ’s speed in the 8th spot—the pitchers move him over on a scarfice kind of thing—I think he will get on base more—he has a better swing as far as—not swinging at bad pitches I think Diaz has alot of intangebles that would be great batting second.

I think the pen will be great with Boyer and Ring and Bennett(long relief) getting the last three spots.

I do think that Hampton will be good. He will be an AWESOME 4th starter—yes I still have faith. (look if the falcons can win a coin flip….anything is possible). (the hawks actually made a trade…dogs and cats are walking hand in hand..)

I believe the Braves will resign Tex and I think Hampton will resign for like 5 million after he has a good solid year…15 wins baby—-185 innings.

I think Javy will be the back up catcher. I hope he catches Glavine—but maybe Smotlz.

I think Yunnel will be an all star with Frenchy.

I think Soraino will get 45 saves—blow 4.

Moylan will be an incredible set up man. (under 2 era)

I think the braves will get 20 plus homers from every position except center—80 plus rbi’s from every postion except short(of course if yunnel is batting 2nd then flop kotsay or Johnson as having less than 80 rbi’s).

I think the braves have a great balenced line up—not the tigers of course—but I think offensivly we are neck and neck with Phills and Mets—-Pitching—I think the Diamondbacks have the best pitching—-but the braves are a close second or third in the national league. Yes I am very biased—but the hitting is very balenced as far as adv./power/getting runners over/making contact—not alot of Andruw Jones’s out there. There is balence in the line up between left and right and three switch hitters—so the hitting should be solid—the pitching could be—-yes could be—outstanding. We could get an adverage of 800 innings from the front four combined—and the way the Braves offense works whoever is in th 5th spot is going to adverage 7 or 8 run support per game—meanwhile Hudsone and Smotlz and Glavine—one of them will be working with like 2 run support per—always works out that way—so JJ will win at least 12 to 14. I think Hudson, Smotlz, Glavine and Hamton will adv 16 wins per between them and get around 22 Quality starts on adverage for the group. Okay back to the bottle to dream up some more stuff right.

By N8

February 22, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Hey, it appears as though, even the Douchebag is coming around. LOL!

In Dayn Perry’s latest column, he lists the guys that have their work cut out for them, by replacing particular players that were important to their teams, before leaving.

Here’s a piece of what he said about Mark Kotsay:

“He won’t be Jones’ equal in the field or at the plate, but the Braves, who are a playoff-caliber club, badly need Kotsay to pass muster, at least until top prospect Jordan Schafer is ready to take over in center.”

Mets fans….take note of this particular line: …but the Braves, who are a playoff-caliber club…

It appears as though the Phils and Mets will have some company when deciding who wins the East, huh?

Actually we’ve all been saying that for a few months now. It just takes the DB a while to catch up to the rest of the world. LOL!

By N8

February 22, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Aren’t you forgetting a couple of scenarios?

Like a wild pitch on a swinging 3rd strike? Or how about a HBP?

LOL! Just busting you man.

“I’ll take a hitter that is more likely to do 1. and least likely to do 7.”

Without doing any sort of number crunch (just going on a hunch and common sense), aren’t those players likely to be the same guy half the time?

Many power hitters, hit into a lot of double plays, with how hard they hit the ball (and “most” of them aren’t very fast on the base paths).

Just an observation.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Payne: Tell ya what, show me the stat the tracks productive outs. Not just bunts and sac flies but grounders that move runners up, expanded Sac Fly, like originally recorded, and the likes.

By Bay Area Steve

February 22, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Is it not extremely likely that KJ will have the highest OBP after Hoss and Tex?

Why would we want the guy getting less plate appearances than Kotsay?

I suppose Esco could top KJ, but certainly not Kotsay.

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, Here is something very interesting.

And this may be even better.

The truth about Productive Outs is that they aren’t something that are good in bulk, but only in limited context. A Productive Out in the ninth inning of a tie game is a good thing, but one in the first inning of any game is merely less bad than other outs. There is a hierarchy of plays in baseball:

Home Run Triple Double Single Base on Balls/Hit by Pitch Reach on Strikeout Reach on Error Productive Out Strikeout Out on Ball in Play Double Play Triple Play

By making a productive out, you prevent any of the outcomes on the bottom third of the list from happening, but it also eliminates the top two thirds of the list. In context, that’s a worthwhile trade, but in general, it’s a terrible, stupid, Brock-for-Broglio-type trade. Counting them in context might give us a tiny bit of useful information — counting them without context gives us little more than noise.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

True Payne. So, I would agree, never trade for a guy who’s only skill is a productive out. Try and trade for the whole package.

By Bay Area Steve

February 22, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Is that RROE website yours? Sure looks like it takes a lot of work.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

eeeesh. That definition of a productive out is very limited. And then to go through and subtract even more from it restricts it even more. I’d say it needs a little more study if anything. But, I suppose the way to the truth is to accept a few articles at face value and never question it again.

I remember a time when there was no such thing as a clutch hitter. Those were the days.

By Michael in Brooklyn

February 22, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, why is it essential for the two hole to “move runners over” ahead of Chipper and Tex? Shouldn’t we be trying to get a guy who can get on base? In no single season has Kotsay ever had an OBP as high as Johnson’s was last year. Given the age of each, wouldn’t we expect Johnson to improve and Kotsay to be at or below his career average?

And working counts? Kotsay has averaged 3.51 pitches per plate appearance in his career (and his last three years are in line with this), while KJ, in nearly 1,000 major league at bats, has averaged 4.12 pitches per plate appearance. Add to that the fact that Johnson is now 26, is coming off a remarkable season all things considered (as you’ve pointed out many times), and by all rights should improve. Kotsay is a HUGE question mark, is most likely on the downward slope of his career, and really shouldn’t be expected to deliver above his career averages.

Finally, this power issue. Why bury a guy with better power in the 7-hole. Without considering who is on ahead of you and all that, the guy who hits in the 2-hole gets to the plate more than the guy who hits in the 7 hole. Why would you put the guy with the worse on-base average and the worse slugging percentage in the position where he is going to get more at bats? That makes no sense.

Thoughts?

(and apologies to any and all who’ve already brought these points up—I read DOB and skipped to the end this time…)

By Shaun

February 22, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Let me answer the question that was posed originally in a more specific fashion.

What is the number two hitter’s job with a runner on second and no one out?

It depends on the inning and the number of outs. If you only need one run (bottom of the ninth with no outs), his job should be to get the runner over. In pretty much any other situation it’s dumb to trade a chance for an extra-base hit for advancing a runner that’s already in scoring position one base.

Think about it, say the leadoff hitter leads off the game with a double. Do you really want your number two hitter to make an out and advance the runner to third so that you have a runner on third with one out? Or would you rather give your number two hitter a chance at getting an extra base hit, possibly either scoring the run and having another runner on or having two runners on for your 3 and 4 hitter?

Worst case scenario if you give your number two guy a chance to hit in that situation is that he makes an out and doesn’t advance the runner and you still have a guy on second with one out with your number three and four hitters due up. Well, besides a double play, which isn’t very likely to happen with a runner on second and no outs, unless you are dumb enough to try to steal third in that situation.

By TennesseePaul

February 22, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Payne: I’d agree. When I read your responses though it seems to me that you are interpreting my position as move the runner over at all costs, that is, give up the out for the sake of moving the runner. This is not what I intend to say or mean.

But I’m off. All this talk of baseball is entertaining but I’ve got a game to go to tonight. Rice is in town. Hope the Dirtbags kick ‘em out with force.

By William

February 22, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

I just picked up the Sporting News 2008 magazine and believe it or not they actually picked the Braves to win the NL East. We all know what predictions mean this time of year, but it’s nice to know that someone believes that the Phillies and Mets are NOT the only good teams in the division.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Manny Ramirez changed agents to Scott Boras. I think he has gone insane.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

William—

That’s amazing! I didn’t think any of those News people new that there were teams in the NL East other than the Mets and Phillies. : )

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Michael, relax, it sounds as if Cox is leaning toward Kelly and Escobar in the top two spots, in some order. But I think it’s worth noting that both Kelly and Chipper both believe Kotsay should be up high — Chipper thinks he should bat second behind Escobar, and Kelly believes Kotsay should bat in one of the first two spots.

I don’t think moving the runners, the ability to do that well, is absolutely essential. But making contact, not striking out very often, is big….

OK, I just got home and Carroll’s watching CSI Miami. So I thought it’d be a good time for this tutorial in bada$$

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Or if that one is too long for your computer, try this shorter version of bad dudeness

By 30YrBravesFan

February 22, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, no one does that song like the King.

Gotta be Escobar for lead off. Agree with Chipper, Johnson behind McCann, Kotsay in the two hole.

Dark blue unis sound cool, I, also, hate the red ones.

By REM

February 22, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

Andy LA — I think it would be interesting to see Diaz in the two hole,but probably impractical. I like him there because of the high OBP and the fact that a very high % of his OBP consists of hits, not walks. I’ve not seen too many walks that’ll get a runner from first to third or have him score from second. The fact that he would get more hits than Kelley (or Kotsay) would lead to some bigger innings than with the other two. He also strikes out a little less than Kelley which would make Chipper happier. HOWEVER, I don’t believe he’s quite as fast as Kelley and it would be a killer for him not to score on some of Chipper’s or Tex’s hits. But the real problem comes at the bottom of the lineup where you have McCann,Kotsay and KJ at 6,7,and 8. That just invites the opposing manager to bring in his lefty specialist after the 5th or 6th inning and really shorten the game especially if we’re behind or tied. Not sure I see this one happening.

By BayAreaSteve

February 22, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

When one hits behind the runner at second, he is not giving himself up.

He has the whole field right of the baserunner at second. He may hit a ground ball to second, but this should be the worst scenario. He may also double in the gap, down the line, homer, soft single to right, etc.

Hitters like Renteria do this perfectly, and I believe Esco to be very similar. They are in no way giving up the big inning. It is not a sac bunt.

By BayAreaSteve

February 22, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve thought about Diaz at 2, but if Cox didn’t do it last year, I doubt he ever will.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

shaun,

love your conviction right or wrong.

the one thing you never take into account with your statistical analysis is strategy.

i guess you are not much of a CHESS player.

sometimes in order to win one must sacrafice their queen.

By Runnin

February 22, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

David Caruso could not beat his way out of a wet paper bag, even with the sunglasses.

By Andy LA

February 22, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

True true true—-REM-lots of left hand specialist in the 5th and 6th—like you say. So you’re right it probaly won’t happen—but with all of the changing in and out of the line up that I believe Cox will use this season—I just hope Cox allows Diaz to bat second. I think he will find his niche. Still—he will be great 8th or 2nd. Thanks for the feed back.

By McFann

February 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand this contempt for the red jerseys, but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, I guess.

Night all!!

By texmex

February 22, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

i hope they keep diaz in a platoon - he hits great off lefties - him and jones can have awesome years if they platoon - and that would give jones opening day against the nats i believe..

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

shaun,

RIDDLE ME THIS? why did francoeur hit ahead of MATT DIAZ all season?

diaz had a better avg., better .OBP, better SLG. better .OPS.

but why does DIAZ bat behind francoeur and mcaann?

baseball is not always about this or that #.

unfortunately for diaz he is not a cant miss prospect.

in your world you would line up the best .obp # 1 and go from there.

well anything is possible TONY LARUSSA tried to justify hitting his pitcher #8.

By Gibby

February 22, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Since I live near Baltimore now I had almost forgotten about the wonderful Mellow Mushroom. Thanks for reminding me.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

tenn-paul,

love your take on shaun. payne? give the guy something to chew on and he will make it a meal.

shaun i definitely respect YOUR BASEBALL knowledge. you make this blog a great place to hang out.

play ball!!!

that sounded hokie, time for a shot of JAGER before i watch the hawks lose to the warrriors.

HEY EVERYBODY I’M BOB RATHBURN here with SMIITY.

NO MATTER where the braves finish, i think we should all be thankful that we will never again have to listen to BOB RATBURN AND TOM PACHTOREIK call another braves game again.

By chrisklob

February 22, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

NO MATTER where the braves finish, i think we should all be thankful that we will never again have to listen to BOB RATBURN AND TOM PACHTOREIK call another braves game again.

I’ll second that. Those guys were awful.

By David O'Brien

February 22, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

uga-brave, I hope you’re not watching the Hawks when the Suns are playing the Celtics on ESPN….

On second thought, my man Paul Pierce is 0-for-5 in the first quarter and this game’s turnover-filled so far. So nevermind….

By MEB

February 22, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

I like Escobar leading off. The rest of the order sure looks strong. Does anybody else think it’s crazy to have Matt Diaz hitting in the two hole? I know Matt hits for average, hustles, and has good bat control. Mark Kotsay is still a bit of an unknown to me. No matter how you stack them this order should score lots of runs.

1 Escobar 2 Diaz 3 Chipper 4 Tex 5 McCann 6 Francouer 7 KJ 8 Kotsay 9 Pitcher

GO BRAVES!!!

By ScottBravesfan

February 22, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Red jerseys aren’t going anywhere they sell way too many of them and the players like them as well. I have no idea why some don’t like them they look sweet to me.

By Braveheart

February 22, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Time to feel old. I lifted this from somewhere on the internet. I lost the link.

When Jair Jurrjens was only five years old, he remembers awakening in his native Curacao to hear his father screaming in the living room, celebrating Francisco Cabrera’s hit that won the National League championship series for the Atlanta Braves.

Now Jurrjens is getting a chance to play for his favorite team. He is a hot prospect who just might earn a shot in Atlanta’s rotation and give the Braves a Curacao successor to Andruw Jones.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

cmon

DOB, next time you are at FATT MATT’S. look up my good friend WES JAMES he pretty much runs the in the abscense of MATT.

By Braveheart

February 22, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Here’s Chris Berman sounding like N8 in the fifth inning of the fifth game when Chuck James fails to make it out of the fifth

By Mike S

February 22, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Hahaha, those Caruso one liners are hilarious.

By Braveheart

February 22, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

ugabrave, i’m watching the hawks play tonight as well. they’re looking good so far tonight. as much i disliked rathburn doing braves game, i like him alot doing nba and college basketball.

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

dob,

the hawks just jacked up 65 in the first half and BIBBY hit 4 threes.

i think BOB might of tinkled.

By Mike S

February 22, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Wow. Boomer is not a happy camper in that one Braveheart.

I have to agree with you about Rathbun; I think he gets a bad rap. (I did think it was funny last week during the Tech hoops game when Eddie Fogler called him “Bob Rathburn” though [which lead to an awkward silence]).

By uga-brave

February 22, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

WW,

i checked in on your argument about PEDRO and without a doubt you are right. PERIOD.

not a time in a five year span that he was not the best.

so what is the problem with the hawks? for me i think josh smith is to concerned with blocking shots that he does not play quality defense.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

maybe you are watching this?

kind of like watching CHUCK pitch with a 4 run lead.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

WW,

you watching the same game i am?

By Mike S

February 23, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

UGA, you had to like that last block by Josh Smith on Monta Ellis’ dunk though. Wow!

Not a lot of defense in this game though…

By TrboDawg

February 23, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Procedural Question: Since Javy is not on the 40 man roster, who gets dropped when/if he makes the team out of spring training?

Thanks, I’m loving the blog and can’t wait for the season to start. 2008 has the potential to a memorable year

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Mike S.

THE HAWKS HAVE NO DEFENSE. JOSH SMITH sorry guys has no defensive abilities.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

ugabrave yeah, i’ve got my feelings on pedro vs. koufax over a 5, 7 year period of dominance. most of it is based upon having seen pedro and then looking at stats. but those koufax guys are hardcore for him. and i can understand that. someday, i will hear some young idiot say that someone is better than michael jordan and it won’t matter how much evidence they have or what their stats are, i will never, ever believe anyone is better than michael jordan. and i will get pretty darn angry with any young idiot who tells me otherwise. so i can understand how lew and others feel about koufax.

I don’t know what the heck the problem is with the hawks. They need to fire woodson already though. I am so tired of that guy.

I love Josh Smith but a problem with that team is that he shoots too many jumpers and he has no outside game. A guy who can dunk like him should never have a shooting percentage as low as he does. It’s really inexcusable. He should be dunking, slashing, and picking up foul shots left and right. But he doesn’t.

Their three leading scorers have an adjusted field goal % around 45, 46 and they have a team adjusted field goal % of 46.5. That ranks them 29th out of 30 NBA teams. Too inefficient.

They need a big man inside converting easy high percentage shots, good outside shooters nailing threes, and slashers dashing to the basket for easy layups and dunks while they convert foul shots.

There is too much standing around waiting for Joe to do his thing and then Josh Smith chucking up ill advised outside shots and marvin not taking over the way he needs to.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

not much defense tonight but this is great west coast basketball. up and down the court. it’s 100-91 with 9;24 left to play.

Mike S., I always spell Rathbun’s name wrong for some ignorant reason.

I can understand why ugabrave is perpetually frustrated with Josh Smith and Frenchy - they are both very similar - extremely talented athletes with good but flawed offensive games - both are pretty good on defense but josh smith’s blocks make him look like a better defender than he really is like frenchy’s cannon shots from right make him look like a better defender than he really is as well.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

come on, ugabrave, saying josh smith has no defensive abilities is a bit strong.

By TrboDawg

February 23, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Not that I’m a basketball fan, but just to continue the theme tonight… I live near Sacramento and I’ve been watching M. Bibby for the last 6 years and he’s the real deal. He will make ANY team better. So Hawk fans take heart, I mean, how much worse can it get???

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

you jove josh s**, i think he is no dan roundfield, you remember him?

the best hawks rebounder of all time.

By nOLIE

February 23, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

I asked about batting second, does it matter if they can hit behind the runner and move him over like Edgar did, etc, and Cox said that Yunel hits behind the runner as well as anyone, and that Kelly’s left-handed, so it’s easy for him to do it.DOB

That sounds like Bobby. Bobby doesn’t steal a whole lot unless he has excellent speed and he doesn’t sacrifice much (but that is great IMO since studies with real games show that in the long run giving yp an out to get a guy from first to second actually results in a lower chance of scoring runs) but I remember an article from a few years back that showed that Bobby did tend to hit&run more than most managers.So what he told you kinda goes along with that approach

By Mike S

February 23, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Man, it’ feels like a looong time since the hawks won a game. Bout time.

Wow. Just flipped over to the Celts-Suns game and it’s the polar opposite of that Hawks-Warriors game: 74-61 with 5 minutes left in the game!

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

he would let the guy go buy insteald

of blocking the guy out.

he loves blocking the shot.

either way you are the braves defender of the faith.

oh by the way you will always be be right about PEDRO.

YOU my friend are the most intelligent blogger here. always have been.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

Josh just turned 22 years old. This is supposed to be his senior year of college. He’s imperfect but he is damn talented and he is still so young.

Bibby looked pretty good tonight despite the injury. Salim looked good as well.

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

That Chris Berman clip was frickin hilarious!

Kinda makes you look at him in a whole new light, huh? Too funny.

And yes. That’s about dead on with how I react to Chuck NOT getting out of the 5th inning. :-)

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

all the idiots are here,

N8, TENNPAU, AND UGA-BRAVE.

By TennesseePaul

February 23, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Incredible game tonight.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

yeah, just flipped over to the celts/suns game. looks like a 1990s eastern conference type of score.

ugabrave, I think Lew, KC, DAP, Overlord are the Braves defenders of the faith.

as for the most intelligent, i don’t think any of us are more intelligent than anyone else. we all have our moments of intelligence, stupidity, or just letting our emotions cloud our judgment.

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Anybody out there (other than DOB) watch the Suns/Celtics game?

I think two things are obvious with Shaq on the Suns.

1) He’s NOT gonna be the scoring machine that he was in years past.

2) He’s transformed Phoenix from one of the worst rebounding teams to one of the better in just two games.

3) More rebounds, means more shots for both Stoudamire and Nash.

4) Speaking of Nash, is there anybody that’s more fun to watch than Nash? How can you not root for that guy?

5) How nice is it to finally see Grant Hill healthy again?

WOW. I must really be bored. I’m not much of an NBA fan anymore. LOL!

But I had to tune into this game a) for the Shaq Attack (sorry), and b) I will ALWAYS be a fan of Kevin Garnett. Hope that dude wins an NBA title before it’s all said and done.

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

Another NBA “thought”.

Is Bill Walton NOT the most annoying personality (or lack there of) on sports TV today?

This guy makes Shannon Sharpe look intelligent. (Actually Sharpe has very good points on Sirius’ NFL channel - when you can understand a frickin word that comes out of his mouth. LOL!)

I’d like to see one of those old Miller Lite commercials (Taste’s Great! Less Filling!) with Sharpe and Walton going at it. Now THAT would be entertainment.

By Wayne in Utah

February 23, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

uga In case you are still checking, the Jazz got their azzes kicked tonight by the lowly Clippers. This does not bode well for the Hawks tomorrow night in SLC. Usually after getting beaten, the Jazz come back with a vengeance.

As luck would have it, we have 4 tickets to the game tomorrow night. With the seats that I can afford, NO WAY will anyone ever see me at a game. We sit so far up, the seats come with oxygen masks standard issue.

Tonight my son and I went to see Vantage Point. Definitely my kind of a movie. Dennis Quaid plays his typical style of role, and Forrest Whitaker is also good. Lots of twists and turns, and will make you think.

Gotta run. I will be happy to come on tomorrow night for an update on the Jazz versus the Hawks!

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

I think UGA is right (about me anyhow).

I just realized that I stated the “two things are obvious with Shaq on the Suns”

Which I then followed up, by stating 5 things. Apparently I cant count. :-)

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

Hey look! Wayne is here?

Looks like we’ve gone from the 3-Amigos to the Fab Four.

First time I’ve been on here while your on at the same time Wayne, how ya been?

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

n8, Tenn paul, and of of course me uga-brave.

we are the last guys standing.

By Mike S

February 23, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Wayne, I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw that Jazz-Clippers score. Jazz coming home after a bad loss to a crappy team, while a short-handed hawks team ran up and down the court 5,832 times in a shootout with the Warriors. Doesn’t look good for our Hawks tomorrow, but we’ll see…

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

DOB

Have you watched that Berman clip that Braveheart posted the link to?

Apparently when people interrupt Berman’s rhythm, it causes him to heat up, and go ballistic…..which is the exact OPPOSITE of being “cooler than the other side of the pillow.”

Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

n8,

and wayne what is up?

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

i kinda like bill walton despite how annoying he is.

there is nothing worse than walton in an interview however. ever hear the interview bill simmons did with him on his podcast? simmons had zero control over walton. he just talks and talks and talks and makes no sense.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

wayne in UTAH,

where have you been? the braves blog misses you.

By N8

February 23, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

uga

Not bad. I’m sick of the cold. It was in the 30’s today (which is about 60 degrees warmer -with the windchill - than it was last week), so I wore shorts.

Amazing what you get used to.

How about yourself?

Anyhow…time to go downstairs and play some PS2. The kids are all in bed, so the middle of the night is the only time I get on the thing!

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

N8 You want to read some bad sports commentary?

Read Emmitt Smith’s greatest hits

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

my good friends i still think kotsay is the right guy to hit # 2

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this

this is why we love the braveheart guy?

personlly I Think he gets it?

By Mike S

February 23, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

Haha. Braveheart, don’t quit, don’t even quit.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this

wayne in utah,

you are the man, N8 miss you too.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this

wayne my friend what is up in that salt lake city?

By StingerSplash

February 23, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Waylon did “Suspicious Minds?” I did not know that (a little Carson for ya). Hell, Waylon probably could have done “The Immigrant Song” and it would have turned out all right.

By nOLIE

February 23, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this

Lew I received the Chipper portrait. WOW!! You do great work, my man. Have fun down here in paradise this spring and I hope you get to meet even more great Braves like Chipper, Cox & Dews. Thanks again

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this

gotta love the stinger splash,

guy?

how are you?

By Thrillhouse44

February 23, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this

1. Braves
2. Phillies
3. Muts

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this

STUPID IS IS STUPID IS STUPID IS

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

whisky,

SteveBayArea,\

where are you?

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

the best about all oof this we dont have we got no TOWES PROBLEMS.

By BayAreaSteve

February 23, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this

Where’s whiskey?

Hey UGA. You sure are throwing out the love tonight.

I missed the game, but damn the Hawks. The Warriors needed that win in the Western Conference. I second what the guy earlier said about Bibby. Great point guard. Hope he fits in well with your squad.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

pedro feliz will be the difference.

we cant match that. along with shane victorino.

sorry all you cool-aid drinders. their 1 rollins, and victorino, 1 2

is great.

By BayAreaSteve

February 23, 2008 3:44 AM | Link to this

UGA, put the Jager down. I ‘m a drunk, but you are freakin hammered.

This has been your pot calling kettle black moment.

By BayAreaSteve

February 23, 2008 4:33 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I don’t think you understand how selfish I am. I have decided that two hours sleep is all you require. Make it so.

UGA,

I have watched Pedro Feliz for the last several years. The man can be pitched to. He will have no significant impact on this race, in my expert blogging opinion.

By BayAreaSteve

February 23, 2008 4:47 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Awesome clip. Priceless. “I can’t believe what I just saw.” I don’t care; I’ll always like Berman. He was ESPN when I was growing up.

We’ve all had those moments. Not quite that big a stage, perhaps, but we’ve all had those moments……OK, I’ve had those moments, and am just assuming others have as well.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

February 23, 2008 4:48 AM | Link to this

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings

Now this is some extremely biased , uninformed and sloppy predication.

I Googled the name of the writer of these rankings , his name is Aram Tolegian. I got a link to Armenian poetry , which explains everything I needed to know.

By BayAreaSteve

February 23, 2008 5:31 AM | Link to this

I know Ukranian and Bulgarian poets are expert MLB forecasters.

But, Armenian poets are Dayn Perry like.

For the record, I haven’t read enough of Perry to form an opinion, but find it hilarious that many I respect here refer to him as Douchebag Dayn Perry.

By ncscoots

February 23, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this

Omigod. Dayn Perry says the Braves are “playoff caliber”? Either that fact has become blindingly obvious (about the only way DP can get it right), or the Braves have just become well and truly cursed. Yikes.

Nolie, I think the studies you refer to in a lower chance of scoring runs actually speak to NUMBER of runs scored after different offensive scenarios, e.g., more runs are scored with runner-first-no-out than with runner-second-one-out, etc. Though I would agree that that reduces down to the same thing as you said, in effect. For those who might think otherwise, a reminder that outs are the “clock” in baseball…you don’t run clock if you’re trying to maximize your scoring.

Anyone who has the inclination could look up the record of teams in games in which they scored at least three runs in an inning (or four runs, depending on your definition of a “big inning”). It becomes apparent that A-B-C, small-ball, whatever you like to call it, tactics are useful in only specific game situations, not as an offensive strategy. Hang and bang, boys and girls…don’t make outs (hang in there) and hit the ball out (bang ‘em).

Big innings, deep starts, and a fearless closer = championships.

By TommyP

February 23, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this

I don’t believe we’ve ever had more traffic on this blog than nowadays.

Kotsay batting #2 in THIS lineup makes no sense at all. It’s a different era so we can stop with the “need someone to bunt the runner over” stuff. C’mon. It’s all fine and dandy to say that a guy “really works the count, hits behind the runner, doesn’t strike out much.” Yeah, but is he a productive hitter? Edgar did all that and was nothing but PRODUCTION. Kotsay? C’mon. No way you bat him at the top and put a Yunel or Kelly Johnson at the bottom.

How many more at bats will the #2 hitter get as opposed to the #7 or #8 over a season? And we want Kotsay getting those at bats over those other two? Gotta be kidding me.

Let’s say our leadoff guy gets on base 38% of the time. That means Kotsay would be hitting with nobody on 62% of the time. (at least to start a game) Sorry….give me the kids up there at the top.

I would start the season with Yunel at the top and Kelly in the #2 hole. I think Kelly has more power this year and that can be more useful in the #2 slot.

At the bottom of the lineup, Diaz #7 and Kotsay #8. Or flip ‘em. Diaz seems to be a good “bad ball” hitter and that fits in well with the #8 spot when pitchers normally are throwing more trash.

Another question: Will the Marlin fans fill the new stadium? Is it even worth trying down there? Just asking.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

Those all-time highlights are too good to miss on ESPN. So I turn the sound down, which is possible, fortunately, because they have the typical graphics/sound-effects intro with “blah blah blah with Chris Berman” audio.

Reach for remote, mute, and enjoy history….

Oh, and Pedro Feliz was a good pickup. Dude plays three positions and has averaged over 30 doubles, 20 homers and 80 RBIs a year for four seasons.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Shaq only had four points, but doesn’t need to do much scoring for Phoenix. Plenty others handle that. He grabbed 14 boards in 28 minutes, got very physical, and had a couple of blocks.

Oh, and a sweeet entrance driving a black diesel. The man does know how to arrive.

By richbrave

February 23, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

Glad to see you people coming around to my way of thinking. Two months ago I said Escobar,Johnson et.al. I’ll gloat now. Wait, this top of the line-up is not etched in stone. But Brother Dave said so - must be a done deal. Really!! Later.

By Tom

February 23, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

I didn’t know Richard Petty sang!!

By richbrave

February 23, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

TOMMKY P:

Traffic on this blog? I don’t see a lot of posts by delusional Mets fans. And to my mind its far better for it. Hopefully their worst posts are being screened out. If there’s something rational or a post other than GO METS!!! I’d like to read it. Otherwise, thanks AJC. Being able to read other Braves fans takes on things has really cut down on the time I have to spend here to learn something.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Tom, don’t you know there are three Kings: Elvis, Richard Petty, and Jerry Lawler.

Know your kings, bro.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

I guess there aren’t any Lawler fans out there?

By TommyP

February 23, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

richbrave: Not referring to any specific groups…just the overall traffic. Blogs fill up incredibly fast.

Of course, the day I’m sick and checking it out, hardly any action.

How many OFs we keeping? 5????

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Buster has some good stuff in his ESPN blog today about the Maddux-Smoltz-Glavine trio, and about his impression of Hampton after stopping by camp and watching him throw BP on Friday.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Yesterday was a very good day for the blog. So many interesting arguments as to who should bat where and why. Almost all were real good. It speaks to the talent of this team and the tough decision Cox has to make. Or maybe it is not so tough because it is hard to go wrong.

I have to agree that KJ batting second is a terrible idea. PItchers are going to be very aggressive with whomever the 2 hitter is this year because of Chipper and Tex. This would turn KJ’s patience which is an enormous strength into a weakness. The stats from last year bear that out - and also common sense based upon watching him play.

I am inclined to agree with Mr. Baseball’s idea that KJ or Kotsay hitting second could be a bad move because then it would allow the other team to bring in a lefty and turn Chipper and Tex around.

Since pitchers are gonna be very aggressive and likely pump fastballs at the 2 hitter as scoots pointed out, could there be a better hitter to take advantage of that than Yunel Escobar? That dude has lightning quick wrists and will feast upon any idiot pitcher who wants to be all macho and pump fastballs at him.

Kotsay batting second to me could make alot of sense. In this decade, in all of baseball, it is hard to find hitters who have benefitted more than the ones hitting in front of Chipper Jones. Andruw in 2000. Julio Franco in 2001 & 2002. Sheffield in 2003. Drew in 2004. Giles in 2005. Renteria in 2006 and 2007. The fear of Chipper by opposing pitchers made all of those hitters better than they really were.

The same might happen with Kotsay. KJ hitting seventh might make Frenchy and McCann better like it did during that six week period of time last season. KOtsay hitting 2nd might have much better results than Kotsay hitting 8th because of the difference in the way he will be pitched.

A big question obviously is how Kotsay’s back is holding up and whether his back woes have robbed him of the lightning he will need in the 2 spot to turn on the fastballs he is gonna see. If it has, then he is probably better off lower down in the order where he will see more off speed pitches.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

How could anyone be a Jerry Lawler fan after he slapped a man in a neckbrace?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv73yzYuE_M

By nOLIE

February 23, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Know your kings, bro.DOB

Don’t forget Albert, B.B. and Carole ;-)

By KC

February 23, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Anyone here an ESPN “Insider”? What exactly did Olney have to say about Hampton?

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

He might not have been The King but he wasn’t just another King. His name was Bernard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqgWmx-VaBA

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

yes, three other worth Kings, nolie.

And Freddie King, another hugely influential blues guitarist….

Just saw that Joey Devine had slipped to No. 17 in the Baseball America Braves prospects list (obviously compiled before he was traded — hate stating the obvious, but some here would surely come back with a ‘Wasn’t he traded?’ if I did not).

By ppaddy123

February 23, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Braveheart that “slap” on David Letterman was a classic Andy Kaufman stunt that he co-ordinated with Jerry Lawler. Plain and simple, it was a stunt.

By Ben

February 23, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, interesting theory about hitters benefiting largely from hitting in front of Chipper. I agree with you on that. But even if Kotsay’s value would increase a lot batting in that position, while someone like Diaz might only go up a little bit (since his original hitting value is so high already), I don’t think it’s a good enough reason to put Kotsay #2. I think Diaz is better for it. With Diaz you don’t have the “bring in the lefty” problem that you have with Johnson. You don’t have the high strikeout rate that you have with Kelly either. You have a guy who’s a great fastball and junk ball hitter, who gets on base WAY more than does Kotsay. Kotsay’s numbers over his career in the 2 spot are ok: an OPS of about .770, with a .280 average. And maybe, if Kotsay is healthy and hitting in front of a guy like Chipper, those numbers will go up a little. But he’s played a LOT of games and it’s doubtful he’ll do that much better than his career averages.

Simply put, Diaz gives us more offensive value in the 2-spot than Kotsay does. Diaz down in the order just doesn’t do enough. Why give more ABs to a worse hitter every game?

I just don’t understand so many people’s opposition to Diaz batting second. WHAT IS IT? He’s not McCann slow! He’s not even really slow at all. What possible basis is there for keeping him out of the 2 spot?

By Patrick

February 23, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Could you please elaborate as to what Buster said about Hampton?

I tried to go to the website and read if for myself, but like everything on there…you have to pay to read anything. Soon you’ll probably have to pay just to type espn.com on your browser.

By ppaddy123

February 23, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

I don’t know about the rest of you people, but when I want to know about the Braves, I read what DOB has to say first (and no, I’m not kissing up) and Mark Bowman and Carroll second. The rest of the national media seem to have their collective heads up the….. well, you know where…..of the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, and Phillies.

We live in a society that provides us with an abundance of information. Unfortunately, some of the so-called experts writing for the national media outlets (si.com what a joke) aren’t capable of doing research past last years media guide. I like to know what the other guys are saying. But when it is obviously biased (Dayn Perry or some retard at si.com) what’s the point?

The problem is we all want more! MORE MORE MORE! We are all excited about the new season. We can’t wait! we just have to learn to filter the BS reporting from the real thing. You guys know what I mean?

By N8

February 23, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Coach

I’m not sure that the ONLY thing I disagree with (as far as teams being placed ahead of us), in the fox “power rankings”, is the Mets being THAT FAR ahead of us (and other teams that are probably better TEAMS than them).

Us at 15 isn’t really a stretch, is it?

Are we better than the Tigers, Red Sox, D-Backs, Rockies, etc…???

We might be, but it needs to be proven, not just assumed.

Sure. We as Braves fans know that our defense (as a team), won’t drop that much going from AJ to Kotsay, because we ALL expect KJ to improve in year 2 at 2B, and I honestly believe that Escobar is a better SS than Renteria (at this point of their careers).

We know are team better than most, guys that do power polls usually look at the numbers and haven’t watched the games.

I can’t see HOW we won’t win more games than last year. I’m not so sure the national media feels the same way.

But if it makes you feel any better, the Phillies (last time I checked they were an East Coast team as well), who won the division last year are ONLY two spots ahead of us. THEY have a lot more to be mad about than us. I wonder what Jimmy Rollins thinks of that? LOL!

By nOLIE

February 23, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

And Freddie King, another hugely influential blues guitaristDOB

Yeah. How could I have forgotten to mention Freddie the Texas Cannonball? I love his work. I’m gonna blame it on old age. Sheeesh

By nOLIE

February 23, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

BUSTER OLNEY ARTICLE The Hall of Fame voting will generally be an ugly event the rest of our lives, an annual referendum on whether players suspected of using performance-enhancing drugs are worthy of induction, or worthy of scorn. But amid the debates to come about Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire, there is a chance for a spectacular and unprecedented event.

Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine and John Smoltz are all nearing the end of careers that will merit them first-ballot elections into the Hall of Fame. No longer are they negotiating multi-year deals; they are going season to season now, weighing their priorities and listening to what their bodies are telling them every fall. Maddux turns 42 this April, about a month after Glavine does, and Smoltz will be 41 in May. It’s possible that one or all three will pitch in 2009, but it is also possible that they will retire together. And if they retire together, than they almost certainly would be inducted together.

Standing beside his locker at the Braves’ camp on Friday, Smoltz said that he has never had a conversation with Glavine or Maddux about the possibility, and he joked, semi-seriously, that if he were to appear on the same ballot as his longtime friends that his own chances for election would be diminished.

But for a moment, Smoltz mused about the possibility about a day that would be extraordinary, if it were to occur: Smoltz and Glavine and Maddux on the stage at Cooperstown, side by side by side, following each other across the stage on a bright and sunny day to make speeches and hold up plaques. For one afternoon, there would be a respite from the discussion of performance-enhancing drugs, because the trio, to date, has never been touched by the scandal.

“It would be pretty exciting,” said Smoltz.

Maddux enters this year with 347 career victories, seven behind Clemens and 16 behind Warren Spahn. Glavine has 303 wins, and Smoltz has accumulated 207 victories and 154 career saves, with one of the best postseason records of all time, at 15-4. They have won seven Cy Young Awards between them.

Smoltz says his body has taken a lot of stress over the years, and he is at the stage of his career when he is making allowances for his body. Last season, he began relying on a two-seam fastball in order to get through innings more quickly, to force hitters to put the ball in play; scouts thought he threw his splitter much less in the second half, and Smoltz acknowledged that he was pitching with more discomfort in 2007 than he cared to admit. He will make just two exhibition starts this year, instead working in simulated games to ensure that his regimen is not overwhelmed by his competitiveness — and to limit the opportunities of opposing hitters and scouts to see him.

He may pitch in 2009, or he may not. The same could be said for Glavine and Maddux.

I was a huge fan of the Dodgers as a kid, but once I started working for newspapers, that ended. You root for story lines, rather than teams. And no matter how much longer Smoltz and Glavine and Maddux pitch, my own hope is that they leave at the same time, so that they can enter Cooperstown on the same day, in an important and timeless moment.

• Mike Hampton threw batting practice Friday and he looked great, his stuff moving all over the place, all of it down in the strike zone. Matt Diaz stepped out of the cage and reported that Hampton was sinking and cutting the ball 8 to 10 inches. Nobody with the Braves is assuming that Hampton will stay healthy, and that he will make 30-32 starts this year.

But if he can stay healthy, the Braves will have a weapon at the back end of their rotation that the Phillies certainly don’t have, and the Mets may not have, depending on how well Pedro Martinez throws this year. We’ll see. Jeff Francoeur reflected the quiet confidence that the Braves are feeling right now about their chances in the NL East. “We were stretching the other day,” he said, “and I was looking around at all the names. We’ve got a lot of good players here.”

Kelly Johnson is focusing on cutting down on his errors, writes Carroll Rogers. The presence of Javy Lopez is not bumming out other young Atlanta catchers, writes David O’Brien.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

ppaddy, I know it was a stunt. But it was still hilarious.

By ppaddy123

February 23, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

hey nOLIE thanks for posting the Buster Olney article. See folks………even Buster knows who to quote when writing about the Braves!

By JEB

February 23, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Line up and reasoning: Escobar: Gamer! Very clutch, will
get better. .300 avg. guy Kotsay:(if healthy) very disciplined Team guy to move runners over Chipper: of course Tex: of course Frenchy: Strong contact, power, avg., RBI’s to move runners after Chipper & Tex McCann: power threat, can be 100 RBI type of hitter, will help runners after above 3, very disciplined for this spot Diaz: Very good contact guy who can protect McCann (McCann will get better pitches with Diaz behind him). Good hitter and RBI machine! KJ (Kotsay here if he’s just avg): Kelly needs to use this spot to develope a little more discipline this year. This spot will help him at the plate for years to come.

I would mmove KJ up to the 7th spot when there is a platoon in LF and DIAZ is not in there. Then it would be Anderson / B Jones in 8th. All of this is based on Kotsay being strong. If not it should be Escobar 1st, KJ 2nd. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

By Shaun

February 23, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

RIDDLE ME THIS? why did francoeur hit ahead of MATT DIAZ all season?

That’s a good question. Diaz got on base more often and hit for more power. That’s why my lineup for ‘08 would be as follows:

Johnson, Escobar, Chipper, Tex, McCann, Diaz, Francoeur, Kotsay

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

tarp is down, dark clouds overhead, rain off and on. the boys are working out in the batting cage today, folks.

that’s a bummer if you bought tickets to see this workout….

Braveheart, Bernard King — what do you think best SEC player other than Peter Maravich? Quite possibly. Bernard was awesome.

And his brother Albert (not the guitarist) was also a fine college player at Maryland.

By Shaun

February 23, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

baseball is not always about this or that #.

True. Winning baseball is about scoring runs and preventing runs, which is about player ability. Statistics help us measure and give us insight into ability.

unfortunately for diaz he is not a cant miss prospect.

And unfortunately Chipper is not a can’t miss prospect. Guess he should be hitting behind Francoeur or McCann.

in your world you would line up the best .obp # 1 and go from there.

I would certainly try to have the guy with the best ability to get on base first. OBP just seems to be a good way to measure that. Maybe I’m wrong?

By JEB

February 23, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

DOB, just for conversation sake and to let everyone know your heart and loyalty to your profession and to the Braves. I’m not trying to kiss up, because I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. But, if there is anything I want to know about the Braves I would rather read your words and I trust them, and also believe you are closer to knowing the inside better than anyone else. So, here’s the question: You came to Atlanta from another area and from covering another team. I would suppose / hope you got a raise and a better offer to do so! Now that you are in Atlanta, and covering the Braves, if another city offered you more to go and cover another team, would you go? If so, what city would you like to go to (team)? Or, are you content to be in Atlanta, love the area, the team, etc. and staying here is where you would like to end your career? This might be a little too personal and if you don’t answer I would understand!(I guess this is sort of my TEX question for you)

By KC

February 23, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Thanks for posting that Olney article nOLIE.

By ppaddy123

February 23, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Jeez, JEB why don’t you just ask DOB what size and kind of underwear he wears?

By Steve McP

February 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

PPaddy - Are you implying that wrestling wasn’t a fair contest between two honed athletes trying their best to achieve victory, but was in fact better suited to the soap channel rather than a sports channel?

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Hey, this is pretty cool, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him, but our boy Shaun has an article that is featured on the front page of baseball-reference.com about Yunel Escobar.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

JEB, I wear medium or large drawers, or “draws.” And thanks for asking.

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

BayAreaSteve,

way to many boat drinks last night, sorry for the ramblings.

DOB, best SEC player i would have to go with the pistol. then again how about shaq. hard to believe a team with shaq, stanley roberts and chris jackson never won anything.

hung over and all still ran the 5k at chastain this morning.

By ppaddy123

February 23, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

SteveMcP I assume (although I shouldn’t) you are talking about the comments made about Jerry “The King” Lawler and Andy Kaufman. To my knowledge, no one said anything about wrestling being a fair contest. As for those guys being athletes………to have the grueling schedule those guys maintain and the punishment they inflict on their bodies……there’s no doubt in my mind they are exceptional athletes.

By hoodawg

February 23, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, can Kotsay bunt? That seems especially important for a 2-hole guy who’s hitting behind a leadoff man who can spray the ball around for singles and doubles, but isn’t a great threat to steal (Escobar). Can’t tell you how many times I pulled my hair out last year when we couldn’t bunt a key guy over.

Heck, are they at least PRACTICING bunting this spring?

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if he is gonna answer those questions JEB but did you read that article this morning about DOB’s reaction to a possible trade to New York for a first round draft pick?

Here’s some excerpts:

“I don’t want to stay there. I would go anywhere who wants me. That’s the thing. It’s hard to play for or be part of an organization that doesn’t want you. I just want to go somewhere where I’m wanted.”

he said he felt “betrayed” and that “these guys kind of stabbed me in the back,” by saying they wanted to retain him while engaging in trade conversations.

“It’s not a situation where I’m out here trying to request a trade. That is not the case. The case is these guys are out here trying to trade me. That’s what it comes down to.”

“I don’t think I’m any more outspoken than hundreds of other guys … I think I’m put under a magnifying glass because I’m in a situation that involves me right now. Everything I’ve ever done and I’m doing or have done in the past is put on a pedestal and looked with under a magnifying glass.

“I don’t think anybody can say that I’m a bad guy. For some reason those questions have been brought up. I’m out here to kind of defend myself.”

“Maybe that’s a sign that they don’t want to be good, if they’re saying I make the team better when I’m on it, and they’re trying to move me and trade me.”

DOB, you sounded like a jerk saying those things.

Oh, what’s that? That’s DHall running his freaking mouth yet again and saying those things.

Well then, my apologies and good riddance to DHall.

Just please keep him off both the Falcons and the Giants.

By Yo Mamma

February 23, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

My Prediction for this year in terms of record is NL East Mets 98-64 Braves 91-71 Phillies 82-80 Marlins 70-92 Nationals 63-99

Braves win wild card but will not win the East the mets are just much more talented.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Yeah, DOB, Pistol Pete was the best. I think Bernard has a good argument for second. We need to get Furman Bisher to give us an all SEC team someday - a little something, something to get us pumped up for March Madness.

ugabrave I think Shaq was a disappointment at LSU. I have no friggin’ idea how they lost with Shaq, Chris Jackson, and Stanley Roberts. The college game was just not conducive to Shaq’s skills.

By TommyP

February 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

I grew up watching Albert King. Growing up in Northern Maryland did not provide for a basketball following but my brother and I watched the Terps religiously.

Wait ‘til the parents go grocery shopping, then turn the kitchen into Cole Field House and shoot into the trash can. Buck Williams, Albert King, Keith Gatlin, Jeff Adkins and some young backup named Bias.

Those were the days.

Speaking of the Terps, big March Madness sleeper this year. They’re on a roll the second half of the season.

Throw out the Cabrera moment and the Justice dinger in the Series: what’s your all-time favorite Brave moment????

By Shaun

February 23, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, thanks for noticing. Inspired by some of the discussion on this very blog.

By REM

February 23, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

DOB — If Hampton continues to progress and nails down the #4 spot in the rotation, do you see that as an advantage to one of the 4 guys vying for the fifth spot? I know you indicated you favored Jair earlier, but is Bobby more likely to prefer 2 righties or 3? Hard throwing or location? Different “types” of pitchers in the rotation to provide balance? Or does this not enter into his thinking? Thanks.

By AdirondackDave

February 23, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

DOB — Among this group, Johnson, Escobar, Diaz, and Kotsay, how would you rank them in baserunning skills, especially first to third situations?

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

TommyP,

all time moment for me?

game six vs. the mets in 1999. emotions up, down, up.

nothing was better then beating bobby valentine.

something to be said for a manager that runs onto the field before the team does after a big win.

By richbrave

February 23, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

TOMMY P:

Sorry I missed you at 10:36 a.m. Four is the normal number, and I think that’s the case again this year, oh and one position player at another spot flexible enough to play short-term emergencies. Kinda’ like Diaz at first, or Kelly Johnson in the outfield - you know what I mean?

By richbrave

February 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

DEVINE. Traded? There was one?

By JEB

February 23, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Braveheart now that was funny! In the words (similiar to) Lloyd Bentzen “I’ve heard DOB and he is no D Hall!”

By uga-brave

February 23, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

another great moment. game 3 vs. the astros. walt weis’s play with the bases juiced and nobody out.

brian jordan hit a bases loaded double to win the game in extra innings.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

All time favorite Braves moment? Game two of the 2005 play-offs!!

By Kev

February 23, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

[Bad News for the Phillies, Brad Ligde Hurt after throwing BP.(http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7832876/Phils’-Lidge-limps-off-mound-after-hurting-knee)

By William

February 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

DOBtarp is down, dark clouds overhead, rain off and on. the boys are working out in the batting cage today, folks.

that’s a bummer if you bought tickets to see this workout….**

Yes, it was a bummer. We are going to try again tomorrow. I think it’s suppose to be a much nicer day. Hope we are able to catch Jeff to give him the picture.

By REM

February 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Favorite Braves moment — 1966 Koufax/Lemaster series in Atlanta.I was 10, and those two games cemented my love for baseball and the Braves.

By Kev

February 23, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Bad News for the Phillies, Brad Ligde Hurt after throwing BP

By AFSOC Shirt

February 23, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

1. Escobar
2. Kotsay
3. Chipper
4. Tex
5. Frenchy
6. Mack
7. KJ
8. Diaz

With the standard “barring injuries” qualifier, I don’t see an easy out there.

By Randy S

February 23, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

A few thoughts:

Lineup - The Braves have a great luxury (for an NL team) in their ability to put their lineup together in so many different and good ways. One idea on Diaz hitting 8th is his ability to hit junk pitches so well since this is what you will get in the 8-hole.

Best Braves Moment - (That I was at Turner Field for) I’ll toss out Furcal’s walkoff homer in the 11th of game 2 of the ‘04 NLDS v the Astros.

Shaq - Yes, he was a bit of a disappointment at LSU, but man was he fun to watch, just swatting balls into the 6h row. A beast in college with those top-notch knee pads.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Just saw that Brad Lidge reinjured the same knee that had surgery on in October. Hurt it today on his first pitch of batting practice when he caught a spike.

By Epinephrine

February 23, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Just saw the same thing. Hate to say it, but am feeling some schadenfreude on this one. Pretty serious blow if it is a legitimate injury. Lidge has enough on his mind already.

By TennesseePaul

February 23, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

What a frickin night. Baseball is back in full force here in the LB. The Dirtbags (BA rank #13) played Rice (BA rank #14) for ten innings of shutout ball. Long Beach starter Liebel threw 8 shut out innings giving up only 5 hits a walk and striking out 11. Danny Espenosa won it in the bottom of the tenth on a line drive over the left fielder for a walk off bases loaded single. Dustin Rasco picked up the win by striking out the side in the top of the tenth.

Absolutely fabulous way to start the season. Danny Espinosa is a solid kid. I’ve watched him play for a few years. Met his parents. Good people all the way around. Liebel was incredible. He only threw 93 pitches over 8 innings. He worked quick. Here are the results

Off to the day game today. Beautiful day at the park.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

WILLIAM, glad to see your name here. Hopefully you’re still online. Wanted to tell you that I talked to Francoeur, told him about your plan, and he was excited about getting that photo. Said to tell you to just make sure you yell or let him know where you are, that you have the photo. He knew exactly what I was talking about. Said he’d give your son a bat or batting glove, something, in exchange for the photo. Good luck….

Just saw that someone had the link up to Lidge story, after I wrote that message. Disregard said message.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Hey, Randy S, We were at that game, too!! That was the one where the Astros’ phone to the bullpen “wasn’t working”! Ha ha!! Classic!!

By Austin

February 23, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

DOB Has Cox set up the Spring Training rotation yet? Thanks

As far as my batting order goes…

1.KJ 2.Yunel 3.Chipper 4.Tex 5.Francoeur 6.McCann 7.Diaz 8.Kotsay

By 22oz

February 23, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Mark DeRosa taken to hospital after experiencing breathing problems

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080223&contentid=2385713&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&cid=chccing breathing problems

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Austin, Bobby had the flu today, left before we could talk to him after the indoor batting-cage workout. Rotation is set, but we won’t know it until tomorrow. Roger McDowell said he’d prefer the skipper tell us.

By wiki

February 23, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

So many favorite Braves moments that run together after those top two…a few of my own:

-Brian Hunter 3 run homer in 1st inning of NLCS Game 7 vs Pirates (Braves won 4-0) -AJ bases loaded walk wins ‘99 NLCS vs Mets -Sept. 2001 Brian Jordan 2 out 9th inning grand slam versus Mets (J. Franco) capping a 6 run rally to win 7-5

A couple other memories:

-Eddie Perez kicking Paul Byrd’s a$$ in a ‘99 game

-Dale Murphy’s last career hit in ‘93 (while with the Rockies) was a bases loaded double off Glavine…..ironic

By dgd

February 23, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Love the daily blogs now—we made it through the long winter! Regarding the original topic of this blog, I like KJ in the 5th hole. Think even if he doesn’t start the year there, he will wind up there at some point. Bat KJ 5th against righties and JF 5th against lefties. Bat McCann 7th and Diaz/Jones 8th. Although with Infante on the DL to start the year, if there’s any question at all about Kotsay’s back, you probably have to keep Anderson to play CF instead of Brandon Jones in LF platoon…..

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

The reason Frenchy hits higher than Diaz has to do with success with RISP.

In the last 2 seasons, Frenchy had an .835 OPS with RISP in 2006 and a .917 OPS with RISP in 2007.

Diaz, on the other hand, had only a .620 OPS with RISP in 2006 and had only a .696 OPS with RISP in 2007.

Frenchy is the better bet getting the guy home, whether people want to accept that or not.

By Randy S

February 23, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

McFann - Yeah I remember I sat over near the Astros bullpen for game 5 and was giving Clemens and company hell about their phone not working in game 2. Some real high-brow stuff, I know….and then they hung 12 on us. Not one of my favorite moments at Turner Field. Part of a tough lil run of Game 5s. ‘02 was super painful with Chipper grounding into a DP in the bottom of the 9th. It happened so quickly. I was stunned. Didn’t leave my seat for a good while.

By Austin

February 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Speaking of great moments I have a couple. I was 3 when the Braves won the series so that dosent qualify for me. The best for me happened during the 05’ NLDS wen McCcann went yard against Clemens. I can still feel the excitment I felt then when I think about it.

That was one of the best games I have ever seen the Braves play in the postseason.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Randy S—

Then there was Game 4 in ‘05. Man, that was tough! First in a good-sized line of baseball games I cried over. It some real excitement, but hated to be on the wrong end of it! Actually, that could very well be what brought me really close to the Braves. That second half of 2005 drew me in pretty close (well, it might have been August…), but those playoff games were a big part of it.

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Outside of the usual moments, the two homers by Andruw in the World Series in Game 1 in 1996 and the McCann homer against Clemens were two favorites of mine. Those were two moments that made you say wow and where anything seemed possible and you believed the two of them could become anything they wanted to become in the game of baseball.

By Austin

February 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

McFann

I have also cried over a good number of games. Including waking up in the morning finding out the Braves lost the the Giants in the NLDS in ‘02. (The game came on at about 3 in the morning and I was about 9 years old.) Then there was non other then Carlos Beltran himself and I cried over game 5 of the NLDS in ‘04.

I could not cry after Game 4 of ‘05. I seriously think I was clinically depressed and in utter shock for at least a week.

Oh yeah and then there was when the Tide were 9-0 facing LSU in ‘05. Yeah I cried after Russell threw the game winning TD in OT.

By Austin

February 23, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Those were two moments that made you say wow and where anything seemed possible and you believed the two of them could become anything they wanted to become in the game of baseball.

That is the exact feeling I felt when I saw McCann’s homer.

By Randy S

February 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

There were playoffs in 2005? Hmmm, I don’t remember those. No recollection of any October baseball that year at all. I think you are mistaken.

By Christy

February 23, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Austin,

you make me feel old and I was still in college for that series…

I think my favorite moment was not just one play. I loved watching Avery pitch and his two games in the ‘91 NLCS were perfect for me.

single plays… Nixon denying Andy Van Slyke… You know - the Braves version of “the catch”…

and Smoltzy running and jumping into the arms of Olson when they clinched in 1991

My worst moment - 1991 - Hrbek pushing Gant off the base and the idiot ump saying it was Gant’s momentum. Honest - I blame this call for the loss in the 1991 series - more than Lonnie Smith’s idiotic running of the bases…

By Wayne in Utah

February 23, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

uga and N8

Sorry I missed you guys last night. My time is extremely limited for blogging these days. It is 3pm here, and I have to cook dinner and then most of the family is out to the Jazz vs Hawks game.

Last summer, my wife had a pretty severe knee injury at work, and had to have some major reconstruction done. It didn’t all come out so good, and she has since had more surgery. So while my normal job keeps me traveling 50% of the time, when I am home, it is danged hard to get on the blog for more than just a quick check on what is going down at the “Dark Star”.

For what it’s worth, I do miss communing with you guys (you too McFann).

I will try hard to get back on later tonight, to gloat over the hopeful victory of my Jazz over the Hawks.

Actually, when I was a SC resident, the Hawks were my team back then, althouth I was not as attached to them as I am to the Braves. Remember the days of “Sweet Lou” Hudson! I left the south before Dominique came on the scene.

Greatest ACC player of all time: David Thompson Grittiest ACC player in my day, John Roche.

Sorry I can’t stay, but keep a light on for me tonight!

By Wayne in Utah

February 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Greatest baseball moments of all time: Hammerin’ Hanks’ 715th, and Kirk Gibson’s monumental HR in game 1 of the 1988 season. I was a Dodger hater back then, but who could not love the theatrics of that moment?

Outta here!

By wiki

February 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

How about the 5 game stretch in the ‘96 playoffs starting with game 5 of the NLCS vs Cards? Scores of the Braves’ 5 straignt wins: 14-0, 3-1, 15-0, 12-1, 4-0. Too bad they couldn’t finish it off.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

McCann’s homer was by far my favorite playoff memory. (The one off Clemens. Not the one in Game 4.) Another time I cried was during that stupid 10 game losing streak in ‘06. Didn’t cry after McCann collision, though. I was in utter shock, and actually can’t remember too much from that moment except for when Daddy yelled up the stairs, “MCCANN’S HURT!!” After that is just a blur.

I cried after the final game of 2007, too. And that clip at the end about the Braves not being on TBS anymore didn’t help, either.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, I miss communing with you, too, Wayne. Sorry to read about your wife. : (

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

We’ll post a new blog tomorrow. Doing them once on weekends, for now at least. Every day during week.

By Jeb

February 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Best Braves moment (and most exciting in baseball to me) 1992 Game 7 FINISHING with Sid Bream’s slide into home. I was feeling depressed that the Braves had set at 3 wins for 2 games and looking like they were about to go down in flames! Starting out the bottom of the inning depressed to be raised to an extreme high over that win! Worst moment: 1996 WS Game 4, Wohlers giving up 3 run HR to Leyritz after Braves had been up 6-1. The momentum turned right then to the Yankees for the series win. Braves would have been up 3 games to 1.

By Mark in PA

February 23, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Just saw a nice little Spring Training video blog from Jayson Stark on the new rivalry in the NL East. Without spoiling the article, I’ll tell you that the words ‘Atlanta’ or ‘Braves’ do not occur at all. I understand two third-place finishes knocks some shine off of Braves-Mets, but come on—a RIVALRY??

ON the plus side, maybe the Mets bloggers will do their trash blogging on a Phillies site. For a while, at least.

By N8

February 23, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Wayne

Not a problem dude. Family should always come before blogging. That’s why I’m on so late at night. Since I own my own business (and most of what I do is afternoon work), I get to continue living my night-owl ways and sleep in in the morning. So when the kids are in bed, that’s my time to myself. Then in the morning, when they’re off at school and my wife is at work, I also have time.

Of course, when I’m at work with nothing to do (plenty of that, this time of year in these parts), I can blog as well. I think I’ve blogged more in the last month, than I did from September to December (my super busy time).

Anyhow, one of these nights I’ll wait around for you. But there is only so many times I can blog to myself. LOL!

If at any point, I realize that I’ve posted 3 times in a row without anybody else jumping in, that’s when I go play some guitar or PS2.

Tell your wife I wish her well with her surgeries. The knee is kind of an important part of enjoying everyday life. I’d hate to have issues with either of mine (knock on wood).

By Braveheart

February 23, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

not looking good for the jayhawks right about now

By McFann

February 23, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

I agree, Neight: Family before blog. And I hope Wayne’s wife all the best, too.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Just brutal for the Jayhawks. Come from nine down to take a later four-point lead on the road, then lose by one. Freakin’ brutal. Twelve seconds to get it down court and get a good shot, and best they can do is get a desperation three from the corner. Workin’ hard to get out of that would-be No. 1 tourney seed. Doing a fine job of that.

By N8

February 23, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Jeb

Pretty much agree with your two moments (worst/best) in your 5:29 post. Those are the two I would have picked.

I’ve got a couple others to add. Some in the post-season, some not.

1992: Otis Nixon’s catch to save a HR (and the game) off of an Andy Van Slyke blast. That’s pretty damn cool in my book.

1993: McGriff hitting the HR (after the fire in the press box), which ignited a come from behind win (in both the game and the division).

1993: Later in the year, at home against the Giants I believe Gant and Klesko went back to back in the 8th or 9th inning off of Rod Beck that, if I’m not mistaking tide the Giants for the division lead. I specifically remember Klesko (who was a September call up), dropping the bat on Kurt Manwaring’s head after hitting his BOMB.

1995: Rafael Belliard’s AMAZING (and not very often talked about) catch on Kenny Lofton’s foul ball, while running full speed into foul territory, and having to contend with the wall, the LF (Devereax? or Polonia?), and the bullpen mound. If Lofton gets another chance and happens to get on base, that might have changed the outcome of not only the game, but the series.

1999: Pick any one of Chippers bombs against the Mets down the stretch.

1999: Walt Weiss’ AMAZING play with the bases loaded in the NLDS against Houston. That play ABSOLUTELY saved that series for the Bravos. No win in that game. Means no series against the Mets. Means no chance for the Gambler to walk Andruw, forcing in the winning run in Extra Innings, which means NO Bobby Bonilla and Ricky Henderson not even being in the dugout, but in the clubhouse playing cards. Priceless.

Those are the good moments during the 14 year run.

My two favorite moments in my entire time as a Braves fan, include:

1982: The pandemonium at home plate when the Braves (perennial losers), won the 13th game in a row to start the season.

1983: Bob Watson hitting a walk off HR against the hated Dodgers and Tommy Lasorda in the middle of the pennant race. I actually still have that game on VHS and watch it once an off-season. Time to break it out I think. John Sterling (current Yankees announcer - and famous for telling the viewers about seeing Ron Gant and his physique in a T-shirt), pretty much has a frickin’ heart attack on air.

1985: You can’t top Rick Camp hitting the HR at 3 or 4 in the morning in that famous 4th of July game. Classic to say the least.

I’ll refrain from mentioning the other “bad” moments. Because I’ve already taken up way too much blog space, and as you all know to well, I spend MUCH MORE time complaining than praising. So I’ll quit while I’m ahead, for your guys’ sake. :-)

By Greg in TN

February 23, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Evening denizens…

Great article on Rick Camp by Steve Hummer. The man has been through much in the last several years and is trying to pull himself back up by the bootstraps. Rick, this citizen of Planet Braves will always have a warm part in his heart for you. Good luck and I’ll be pulling for you.

My thoughts go out to former Brave Mark DeRosa, who had to be sent from Cubs camp to the hospital with an irregular heartbeat.

A nice reference to Bernard King by Braveheart. Thanks man. Until Bruce Pearl’s arrival, the Ernie and Bernie show (King with Ernie Grunfeld) was widely thought of around these parts as the golden age of UT men’s basketball.

I am enjoying the banter on the blog today about favorite Braves moments. I have many that roll through my mind over the years, and while many of my favorites have already been mentioned (can’t just throw one out there), I’ll throw out two that came at the expense of the former evil empire (at least to this Braves fan) in LA:

8/13/1983: The Braves come into the evening leading LA by six and a half games and Pete Falcone gets the start looking for his ninth win of the season. Falcone would only go three and a third, surrendering a homer to Pedro Guerrero in the first and would finally be chased after a two-run Candy Maldonado double. Guerrero would again homer in the sixth off of Tony Brizzolara, and the Dodgers would take a 6-1 advantage into the bottom half of the frame.

The Braves would come back in the bottom half of the 6th with a three-run homer from Claudell Washington (scoring Brett Butler and Rafael Ramirez) and a two-run shot from Glenn Hubbard with Gerald Perry aboard which ties the game.

The Dodgers would go ahead in the ninth on a Greg Brock homer off of Steve Bedrosian, however the Braves would storm back in the home half of the ninth with a Rafael Ramirez single and a Bob Watson pinch-hit walk off homer, that sent 48,000+ at the old ballpark and one leaping celebrating kid in East Tennessee into delirium.

The wheels would fall off beginning the next night when the Braves would fall to Fernando and begin a four game skid, but that Saturday night was magic for this denizen.

9/15/1991: Again it’s the Dodgers in town with the Braves nursing a game and a half lead over the Dodgers for the division. Ramon Martinez took the hill for the Dodgers against Steve Avery for the Braves. After a three-up, three-down top of the first (ironically Brett Butler singled and was erased when Mike Sharperson grounded into a double play), the Braves greeted Martinez with a one out walk by Mark Lemke and back-to-back singles from TP and David Justice (Justice’s single would score Lemke). Ron Gant was hit by a pitch and then Sid Bream smashed the slam to put the Braves up 5-0. Ramirez, and the Dodgers, looked shell-shocked.

The Braves, behind Avery, who would add an RBI single in the third and give up only one earned run in pitching a complete game four hitter, would win 9-1. LA would rally to regain the division lead two nights later, however the Braves would also rally and clinch on a Saturday afternoon in October with the iconic image of Greg Olson jumping into John Smoltz’s arms after defeating the Astros 5-2.

By Lew

February 23, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

I just kind of scanned through the day’s posts so maybe I missed it, but let us not forget Mr. Riley B. King, either. He is more commonly known as BB.

By kdbanks

February 23, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Looks like the first new SNL of the post-writer’s strike era is tonight, with Tina Fey hosting. Makes me happy!

By Greg in TN

February 23, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

N8 Totally agree with your selections as well. I was sound asleep and away from cable TV (actually camping out that week) when Rick Camp homered against the mets, but I’ll always remember John Sterling’s stunned call of the homer. In Steve Hummer’s article on Rick Camp, Skip mentioned that it was one of the only time’s he’s ever seen Pete Van Wieren on his feet in the broadcast booth in reaction to a play. Great stuff.

Oh, and Wayne, thoughts and prayers to you on behalf of your wife. Hope her knee heals better than it has to this point and that you’ll be back with us talking baseball again soon.

By kdbanks

February 23, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Marlins are going to have an all male, all fatty cheerleading squad this year. That ought to bring all the blue hairs out to the stadium. I can’t figure out how to do links, but it’s on SI.com right now with a lovely picture of one of the men trying out.

By N8

February 23, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN

“I’ll throw out two that came at the expense of the former evil empire (at least to this Braves fan) in LA:”

Totally agree. The Braves’ rivalries with their current NL East foes, might NEVER be as fun as the Braves/Dodgers rivalries were.

Then again, maybe that’s from our angle. Since the beginning of the “run”, we had 7 different teams finish in 2nd place behind us (1991: Dodgers, 1992: Reds, 1993: Giants, 1994 (oops), 1995: Mets, 1996: Montreal, 1997: Marlins, 1998: Mets, 1999: Mets, 2000: Mets, 2001: Phillies, 2002: Montreal, 2003: Florida, 2004: Phillies, 2005: Philies.), with the Mets finishing 2nd four times, and the Phillies finishing 2nd three times. In the two years since we have missed the playoffs, the Mets and Phillies have been the teams ahead of us.

So I guess until we’re the “chaser” rather than the “chasee”, there hasn’t been much reason to consider any of it a “rivalry”. After 1983, we spent the next 8-9 years eating the Reds, Padres, Astros, Giants, and Dodgers dust. So that’s why it felt so damn good in 1991, especially after Straw’s comments.

Righ down to Lasorda making Pasqual take his gold chains off while pitching.

I 100 percent, no doubt about it, miss “hating” Lasorda. The game of baseball hasn’t been the same since he retired. To this day, I still LOVE hearing him talk to guys like Jim Rome and other shows that he frequently calls in to.

And even now, with the Mets, it’s not as good as it was with Valentine in the dugout. Willie Randolph is just too nice. LOL!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but was it in 1991 that Strawberry made the comment that “we aren’t worried about the Braves, we’re worried about the Reds” (or was it the Padres?), when we were in 2nd place? Total disrespect. But that’s what made it great.

I’ll say this for Bobby, whether you love him or your name is Robert, his players have NEVER said anything that publicly “dissed” the other teams we were facing and gave them bulletin board material.

By mr baseball

February 23, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

Usually agree with most of your posts, but your overuse of certain stats sometimes blinds you to the bigger picture. There is a simple reason why Francouer hits ahead of Diaz. He drives in runs.

Over the past 2 seasons, Diaz has 655 ABs, a few more than a typical Francouer year. He has about 40 more hits than Francouer’s average over the last 2 years and the same number of extra base hits, but has 27 fewer RBIs. That’s it in a nutshell. Diaz gets a whole lot of relatively meaningless hits, quite a few of which can be generously described as dinks. Please don’t cite the overused comeback from statheads that RBIs are not an accurate indicator of production. 218 hits and 77 RBI for someone not hitting leadoff is telling number.

Francouer is a good young hitter and getting better. Diaz is very unlikely to hit .333 again, especially if he plays on a more regular basis. Can’t give any statistical reason, but from watching a whole lot of Braves games on the tube (and a handful in person), they’re both pretty good bets. Francouer should hit 30-plus HRs this year, Diaz will be doing good to get to 15.

Favorite Braves moment hasn’t been cited yet, I don’t think. Sept. 30, 1991: Mrs. Baseball and I were celebrating the birth of our first and last child that morning. Had 99 percent decided on his name but that 1 percent was nagging us. That night, Justice hit a huge late game homer off Dibble in Cincy to pretty much clinch the division. We had all but settled on David, and after the HR, told the wife (not a sports fan by any stretch) that it was a sign from a higher power.

David it was.

By McFann

February 23, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Kinda random thought here (and what happened to Random, anyway?), but I remember that around this time last year (Feb. 19 to be exact), when McCann visited some sick children, DOB reported it when there was hardly anything—if anything—about it on atlantabraves.com. Just wanna thank you for that, DOB.

(A year late, I know. But hey, it was on my mind; had to let ya know.)

By TennesseePaul

February 23, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Another great game today. Dirtbags 2-0 on the season. Danny Espinosa scored the winning run in the bottom of the 8th. He was 3-4 with a double, home run, 3 runs, and an RBI. The Dirtbags won 3-2. Shaw closed it out with a perfect ninth.

By William

February 23, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

WILLIAM, glad to see your name here. Hopefully you’re still online. Wanted to tell you that I talked to Francoeur, told him about your plan, and he was excited about getting that photo.

DOB I left you an email, but just wanted to tell you thanks for doing that. My son obviously is very excited. My understanding is that workouts are at 1pm tomorrow. We plan on being at the park about 1130 or 12. Looking forward to it. Thanks!!

By Choppinmama

February 23, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: I camped out many a night to get tickets to watch Roche, Cremins, Walsh and Ribock play for Frank McGuire. - and I wasn’t much of a basketball fan even back then. But, those years I was there, with USC playing such exciting basketball with the young guys, the fieldhouse was rocking every game.

Always glad to get your “western” perspective on all thing Braves. Best wishes to Mrs. WiU with her continued recovery.

And, good luck with that 50% travel time from Utah…….on the icy roads or holed up in some airport awaiting a flight out!

By BravesFanInRockies

February 23, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Tar Heel alum here. I still think KU has a great shot at at #! seed. Have to win the Big 12 tournament, obviously. If Memphis doesn’t win out (lose tonight and maybe in CUSA tourney against UAB?), then they’ll drop to a 2. Weak schedules almost always catch up to you.

Even if UT loses tonight if they win the SEC tourney, they’re a #1.

My #1s now are the Tar Heels (they’ll beat Dook at Cameron and win the ACC tourney), UT, KU and Memphis. Don’t think the Tigers will make the Final Four, however. Somebody will force them to win a game at the foul line and they’ll come up short.

Tyler Hansbrough is entering the conversation as best ACC player ever. Not there yet, but you have to talk about him. Guy’s a monster.

By Lew

February 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

ChoppinMama-Was it you who wanted a Matt Diaz autograph? If it was, got you covered.

By wiki

February 23, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

N8

Great memories you bring up. The ‘93 one sticks out in my mind as well….it was actually against the Reds. In the 9th, Klesko hit a 2 run PH HR followed by a 3 run homer by Ron Gant. I remember Gant’s homer was off Dibble and was a low line drive that bounced out off the top of the left field fence. That memory stuck of Klesko with his mullet ‘do dropping the bat on the catcher’s head after hitting his mammoth shot. Side note…. Chipper made his ML debut in that game and struck out in the 9th. My memory isn’t that great; I happened to be there that night….ahh the good old days.

By JEB

February 23, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

N8 Whew!! Man you stirred up some memories. I started remembering where I was at when I saw those games, moments of those games, reading the stories in the papers (no internet during those times) what the weather was like,what was happening in my own life during those times, etc. My how time flies, whether your having fun or not!

By fastasballs

February 23, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Great blog. I loved reading the favorite Braves’ moments that people posted.

I have a few I didn’t see mentioned that come to mind. Horner’s four homer game sticks in mind as well as the brawl with the Padres back in the mid 80’s. The funniest thing I recall about that game is the Padres trying their hardest to hit Pascual Perez, but never managing to accomplish it.

The entire 1991 season will probably be hard to top, even though they came up short against the Twins in what I think was the best World Series I have ever seen.

On to this year I’m glad the Muts & Phils are getting the attention & media play. The Braves can slide under the radar all the way to the East crown IMO. Nobody can predict injuries, but you have to admit things are looking MUCH better than last season. The team has depth at every position. The bench & pitching staff are much improved plus Tex is here all year(hopefully another half dozen or so).

By Choppinmama

February 23, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew: that was me all right! Thanks so much. Looks like you have Access with a capital A. Email headed your way.

By William

February 23, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Besides the typical classic Braves moments…. I have two that stick out in my mind. One is from when I was a teenager. I was a huge Dale Murphy fan growing up. One night he hit a homerun off Dwight Gooden as a pinch hitter with his right hand heavily taped. The night before he had sliced his hand on the center field wall at Atlanta Fulton County stadium and his consecutive game streak was in jeopardy. Oh, and oh yeah, the Braves lost that game 8-1. That’s how it was back then. My more recent favorite is Jeff Francoeur’s game winning Grand Slam against the Nationals on May 13, 2006. I mean who hasn’t dreamed of hitting a Grand Slam to win a game in the Majors?

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, you’ve gotta be kidding me about Hansbrough. I mean, you do a total disservice to the incredibly rich history of ACC basketball, or rather your knowledge of said history, by making a statement like that.

How can you possibly justify that? In a league that’s produced players who’ve won multiple National Player of Year honors, multiple national championships, who’ve led the nation in scoring or rebounding, Tyler Hansbrough has done exactly zero of the above.

You’re so caught up in his 100-percent effort and flavor-of-the-moment position with broadcasters who love him, you’re putting all of that above actual accomplishments, if you ask me.

I mean, how can you say he’s a better college player than the great David Thompson, Len Bias, Ralph Sampson, Christian Laettner (who played in four Final Fours and was just named No. 12 all-time college player by the ESPN panel doing that top-25 thing), Michael Jordan (No. 13 on the list). He might be on a part with James Worthy, Tim Duncan, and a few others, but not above them. And he’s not in the same class of those others I named.

Absolutely no way Hansbrough is even in the conversation for all-time best ACC player. He’s not in the top 5, and arguably not in the top 10 unless he does something special over the next six weeks.

And if you really believe he is the best ACC player even, then would you please tell me why he’s more deserving than the players I mentioned above? David Thompson, for instance, who’ll be in the ESPN top 10 all-time list, maybe in the top five.

Effort? Yeah, I’ll give you that. Effort off the charts. Maybe the best ACC player ever in terms of sheer effort. But I don’t judge all-time players strictly on effort. Talent and results are also quite important, don’t you think?

Not in the conversation for all-time best player, not even in top five, in my opinion, unless he puts the Tar Heels on his back and takes them to the NCAA title and wins the national player of the year award (Michael Beasley of nationally ranked K-State has far superior statistics as a freshman than Hansbrough’s ever had and deserves the honor, even though he plays for a KU rival).

By Shaun

February 23, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

mr baseball, re: your 8:17 post:

The reason Francoeur has more RBI than Diaz is quite simple. Francoeur was higher in the order, hitting behind the on-base guys while Diaz has most of his career plate appearances batting 7th, then 6th and 8th.

How many times does it need to be repeated that driving in runs is highly dependent on context. Does anyone really believe that Nick Markakis was more productive than someone like Mark Teixeira?

It’s common sense. Even a hitter that costs his team the equivalent of 159 scoreless innings and the equivalent of over 17 scoreless games can drive in 105 runs, if he’s hitting in the right spot in the lineup and he’s hitting in the right lineup.

By Lew

February 23, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Choppinmama-Send the email with your address, but I won’t be checking anything for another week until I get home.

Matt’s signature was more a case of perserverance than access. He just happened to come out while we were still there talking to Braves’ Ground Crew Guru Ed Mangan. Ed sure does a great job-especially when you consider he couldn’t even water the field at Turner all fall and winter. It was interesting talking to him. He’s not the guy you usually think of when you think of the Braves, but you wouldn’t have much of a game without him.

By N8

February 23, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

wiki

You’re right. I remember it better now that you mention it. Is that the game that Dibble “tore” off his jersey as he was walking off the mound???

But you are DEAD ON with the Gant HR hitting the top of the wall.

Good call.

If you are correct about it being Chipper’s first game (and I’m sure you are), I’m sure he remembers it well, too. Maybe DOB will ask him about it.

I just remember being PUMPED at Klesko’s mammoth shot, and thinking “this guy’s got some SERIOUS pop in his bat”.

Wow. It only feels like it was 15 years ago…..oh…wait. Never mind. :-)

By Elton Brand

February 23, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

I would have eaten Hansbrough alive just like I will do in the NBA.

In this day and age, if you play longer than a year or two in college, there is no chance in hell you were ever one of the best players in any conference.

By N8

February 23, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

wiki

I just looked up the box score of that game (baseball-reference.com) and while you remembered Chipper striking out correctly (he did), it was NOT his debut. The night before, was his first AB (a single), and he actually made his debut on the 11th of September as a defensive replacement. Followed by being a pinch-runner the next night.

It wasn’t until his 3rd “game” that he got an AB.

Not trying to be an azz. Just thought I’d let you know. It’s still pretty amazing that you remembered that he struck out in that game.

The strikeout by Chipper, btw, was the ONLY out of that 5 run bottom of the 9th, in which the trailed 6-2 going into that inning.

Starting pitcher for the Reds? Jose Rijo.

WOW.

By N8

February 23, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Here’s another moment in time that doesn’t get talked about much and is not likely to happen anytime soon, again.

Before the first pitch of Game 7 of the 1991 WS, Twins catcher Brian Harper and Braves leadoff man Lonnie Smith enjoy a “good luck” handshake with each other.

A truly GREAT moment in the spirit of sportsmanship and respect for your opponent.

I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

Another favorite “moment” didn’t happen on the field.

Who can forget (or remember it without busting out laughing), Pasqual Perez missing the start of the game, because he got lost or missed the exit on his way to Fulton County Stadium? THAT is frickin’ funny.

I know I have mentioned this before, but when I watch the VHS tape of that 1983 Dodgers/Braves game (where Watson hit the PH walkoff HR), my favorite part of it, is actually the commercials.

Who can forget the “Ditch the itch, itch, itch…..Ditch the itch, itch, itch,….with Absorbine Jr.”, jingle?

But my all-time favorite Braves broadcast commercial is the Eastern Airlines commercial that shows an Airplane Graveyard with tumbleweeds blowing across the dusty field with all the jets. Then this horrendous bit of foreshadowing (only they didn’t know it was about THEIR company)….

“The airline that doesn’t PLAN for the future……doesn’t HAVE a future”

It doesn’t get anymore ironic than that, IMO.

OK. Time to watch a flick with the kids.

L8r.

By David O'Brien

February 23, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

The reason Francoeur has more RBI than Diaz is quite simple. Francoeur was higher in the order, hitting behind the on-base guys while Diaz has most of his career plate appearances batting 7th, then 6th and 8th.Shaun

Partly true, for sure. But you can’t just discount the fact that Francoeur, in addition to having many more at-bats with RISP, also hit better per at-bat in those opportunities.

Francoeur hit .341 (62-for-182) with RISP with 16 doubles, six homers, a .389 OBP and .527 slugging percentage.

Diaz hit .287 (25-for-87) with RISP with eight doubles, a .316 OBP and a .379 slugging percentage.

By Stephen

February 23, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

DOB Is there any way we can get some pictures of the new seating construction going on behind home plate at Turner Field?

By BossLady

February 23, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

I would have never thought Francoeur stats were so far ahead of Diaz, it appeared that Diaz played so well.

By BossLady

February 23, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

The games that Sheffield won for the Braves were memorable.It seems we did not win the east after he left. He does not get much attention here but I felt like we always had a chance to win with him in the lineup. Games that appeared to be lost causes ended with a win.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

February 23, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

I truly don’t get the Diaz/Francoeur comparison. There is none.

While Diaz can hit in a damn phone booth , he is nowhere near the athlete or player that Francoeur is.

Francoeur had the talent to make it in the NFL. Thankfully , the Braves took him in the 1st round and we are privileged to be watching his enormous ability emerge.

Frenchy is Dale Murphy and then some. Taken in the first round with the 23rd pick of the 2002 draft , he was already the Braves everyday right fielder by the end of the 2005 season.

Matt Diaz is a former 17th round round 1999 draft pick already with his third organization and still trying to become the Braves everyday left fielder.

To compare offensive stats may be interesting , it’s really just academic.

Francoeur is going to be with the Braves for a very long time. Matt Diaz will eventually move on when Atlanta thinks that Brandon Jones or another young talented outfielder is ready.

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

OH NO! A photo of Roger the Dodger at that party . Guess he must have misremembered that event too. I’m worried that maybe it’s early senility. Poor Guy. It’s not his fault.

By mr baseball

February 24, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

BossLady:

You may be the only person with fond memories of Sheffield as a Brave. True, he had a tremendous year in 2004, but he was so awful in the post-season the 2 years he was here, it’s hard to imagine. 3-for-30 with 2 RBI in 9 games.

Also, the Braves made the playoffs both of the next 2 years. We missed Maddux, Glavine, Millwood, etc., a whole lot more than Sheffield.

By Greg in TN

February 24, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

N8,

Strawberry indeed said something to those regards during the ‘91 pennant drive. And you’re right, it’s not the same as it was in the 80s and early 90s. I had those Dodger dates circled on the calendar and even if we were first, second or trailing far behind in the Bobby Wine/Eddie Hass/Chuck Tanner/Russ Nixon era, it was something to look forward too. Too many times, they would hit down and Tommy would waddle to the top step of the dugout with that smirk on his face and we’d end up 8 runs down in the 3rd or something like that.

Valentine was a hoot, as was Dallas Green at times. I have a lot of respect for Art Howe and for Randolph, so a lot of the fun watching what would happen in their dugout kind of left with Bobby V.

1991 is and will likely always be my favorite year. Just to come out of nowhere and not even be on the radar in April and end up in the fall classic is and always will be something special for me. I don’t think my feet touched the ground that October. It was great watching a World Series for a change and not be a passive observer, but having the team, my team, involved. Seeing the ‘ol ballpark on Capitol Avenue rocking in the postseason was surreal. 1991 made up for all of the disappointment, all of the years that I knew the closest we’d be to the front was on the first day of the season when the newspaper listed the order of teams alphabetically by city. That’s sad, but true. I took a lot of ribbing the year before for getting a “Braves Fan” license plate on the back of my truck (a birthday present from my folks). Much of it was good natured, but I was laughing the next year. Still have it.

I remember that Eastern Airlines commercial too, quite ironic knowing what we know now. That and the Red Man commercial with what appears to be three generations of a family working on an old pickup truck. Throw in a few promos for Night Tracks and the TBS Wednesday afternoon movie which was usually a B&W affair pulled from the depths of the vault on Techwood and that was my summer television lineup from the age of 7 on.

By Austin

February 24, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

I do indeed have fond memories of Sheffield. I dont see a problem with having one distraction player on a team. I jumped for joy when I heard they traded for him and almost cried when I saw the Braves had zero chance to resign him.

By N8

February 24, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

Greg in TN

“1991 made up for all of the disappointment, all of the years that I knew the closest we’d be to the front was on the first day of the season when the newspaper listed the order of teams alphabetically by city.”

LOL! Truer words have probably never been written on this blog. I can remember thinking that same thought a couple of times on opening day! Good thing they weren’t still in Milwaukee! :-)

Well done.

I miss the days (before endless Friends, Seinfeld and Raymond re-runs), when the Braves games would be shown again at about 2:00 AM (or whenever it was). I think it’s cool that ESPN still does that with their broadcasts of MLB games.

Even if I’ve seen the highlights, there usually isn’t anything better on at 2:00 AM than a baseball game (unless you have Cinemax), even if you already know the outcome.

Introduced my boys (9 and 7) to the Jack Black movie, School of Rock tonight. They LOVED it. That puts a smile on the old man’s face, real quick. Many worse things two young boys can watch than a show about R&R (even a non-serious one), especially if it has Jack Black in it.

Besides, This is Spinal Tap or The Commitments might have a little too much “language” in it for boys their age. But that day will come soon enough. LOL!

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

Please don’t cite the overused comeback from statheads that RBIs are not an accurate indicator of production. 218 hits and 77 RBI for someone not hitting leadoff is telling number.MrBaseball

Well of course you have to use it, part of the difference in their RBI totals is the difference in where they hit in the order. Diaz usually hits behind Frenchy who is never on base to be driven in with his career OBP of .319. That’s the whole reason that RBI are not good indicators, they are team stats that depend too much on where you hit in the lineup and who is ahead of you.

By Greg in TN

February 24, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

N8

I remember those days well. The nights I’d have a ball game or something that kept me away, I’d stay up and catch some of the replay before falling asleep. There’s something cool and amusing at hearing Skip’s disdain for the wave at 3:30 in the morning.

Got to break the kids in eventually to Tap, but they obviously have a little more time before taking it in. I still laugh out loud at that movie.

“Why don’t you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?”

“These go to 11.”

By BayAreaSteve

February 24, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, solid post as usual. Great story about naming the kid; the question is, do you tell folks he’s named for Justice?

By mr baseball

February 24, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

Any one who truly believes that Diaz should bat in front of Francouer in the lineup needs to stick to Strat-o-matic and forget about real baseball. The game that is played on the field is much more than OBP & OPS, but getting the Shauns and Moby Grapes of the world to grasp that is about as pointless as trying to reason with a Hillary hater or a 9-11 conspiracy fanatic.

Show me a guy with 100+ RBI and an RISP in the low .200s, and I’ll grant you that his numbers are inflated by the situation. Show me someone that drives in 100+ runs 2 years in a row with a .300+ RISP and all the blather about OBP and OPS is just that. Blather.

By uga-brave

February 24, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

i am back,

tenn just whipped memphis. either way guys kelly should hit 7th.

hitting him leadoff is a option, but him hitting in the two hole, is a waste of talent.

besides HOSS he has the best approach at the plate.

sorry for all francoeur fans, kelly is better.

the guy has a better approach. \

this might be francouer’s break out year. frenchy’s talent is above reproach. him and the gwinett county all-star mccaaan need to become STARS.

By N8

February 24, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

Moby Grape

“That’s the whole reason that RBI are not good indicators, they are team stats that depend too much on where you hit in the lineup and who is ahead of you.”

Braves #1, #2 and #3 hitters had OBP’s of .355, .392, .402 last year.

Yet Andruw, while batting in the clean-up spot managed to have only 64 RBI, in 86 games (323 AB’s), and Texeira had 56 RBI in 54 games (208 AB), once he came to Atlanta and was inserted into the clean-up role.

So tell me AGAIN that there is no such thing as “clutch”. That it’s ALL about who’s ahead of you in the order.

Hogwash! Some players are good in the clutch, and some aren’t.

If you’re interested in the “paces” (and usually I’m not), that each player was on par to do, as far as RBI, here they are.

Andruw with those numbers to go on, at that pace (.7 RBI per game played), he would have ended up with 120 RBI, even though he hit a horrid .231 with RISP. YES, I’m keeping in mind he, himself was ALWAYS in scoring position, with that HACK of his.

Tex, on the other hand, was on pace (1.03 RBI per game played - in Atlanta), would have ended up with 168 RBI. Tex, meanwhile, hit .405 for the year with RISP.

So, puleeeeez, tell me again that TALENT has nothing to do with RBI totals, ALONG WITH who is ahead of that person in the lineup.

Even CRAPPY teams have their best three hitters in the 1-2-3 hole, so even a crappy clean-up hitter (which Andruw has pretty much been, other than 2005), are gonna rack up RBI totals. It just so happens that it’s not as much as a good one would get.

Since the “run” began in 1991, Sheffield has the biggest single season RBI total of 132 in 2003. If healthy I completely expect Tex to shatter that number this year, and I’m not kidding.

I don’t think that Arod’s 154 RBI of last year are that out of reach. I don’t think Tex will hit more than 40 HR (or come close to Arod’s 54 HR), but he is a much better “hitter” with RISP. Don’t believe me, or think I’m crazy?

Arod in 2007:

235 AB’s, .333 average, with 98 RBI w/ RISP

Tex in 2007:

131 AB’s, .405 average, with 77 RBI w/ RISP

Guys around a cleanup hitter definitely contribute to a cleanup hitters RBI total. I’m not arguing that.

But the difference between a cleanup hitter simply “amassing” 100 RBI, and truly being an RBI machine (130+ RBI), is how good of a hitter that hitter is. It’s no coincidence, that even in a CAREER year for Andruw in 2005, a year he hit 51 HR, he STILL only had 128 RBI. He actually had 1 more RBI in 2006 with 11 less HR.

But in 2005, Braves 1-2-3 hitters had OBP’s of .355, .354, and .383 (not that far off of last years numbers), and because Andruw hit only .207 with RISP, his RBI total was 28 RBI less than Arod had last year, even though Andruw hit only 3 fewer HR. Andruw had 72 RBI with RISP in 2005, compared to Arod’s 98 last year.

Right there are your 28 RBI (actually only 26 - but you get the picture).

Bottom line? Good hitters will have around 100 RBI by having good talent around them on base. GREAT hitters (especially with RISP - I look at BA in those situations - the ones with higher BA in those spots SHOULD get more AB’s in thos spots, right?), will hunker down and collect many more.

Which category (good or GREAT) do you think Matt Diaz and Francoeur each belong in?

By mr baseball

February 24, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

BayAreaSteve:

He’s not really named for Justice, but it does make for an amusing story. We were going to call him that before the home run that night, but had not made it official. I took the home run as a message from the great beyond that we made the right call. If Justice popped up, my kid would still be David, but the way things turned out makes his naming a lot more interesting.

Before I forget, want to remind DOB that there are 3 Kings who don’t bear that name: Elvis, No. 43 and Arnold Palmer. Not a lot of golf fans on here, I guess.

Speaking of which, a shout out to one of local tour pros: Good luck to Stewart Cink against Tiger later today. Gonna need it.

By N8

February 24, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this

Greg in TN

Spinal Tap is my all time favorite movie. Owned it on VHS, and of course, now on DVD. Probably have watched it around 100 times, and STILL find little nuances that make me laugh.

I almost like The Commitments as much. If you haven’t seen it, you need to. But with the Irish accents, it takes almost 3 or 4 times to catch everything.

My favorite line from Spinal Tap is when their manager Ian says:

“the Boston gig’s canceled, but don’t worry — it’s not a big college town”

Or, when their album arrives, but David St. Hubbins is so excited that Janine has shown up, that when he’s hugging her, Derek Smalls says into the microphone at soundcheck: “David….Smell the Glove is here.”

LOVE that line.

Still to this day, no matter what band I’m playing with, two lines get used OVER and OVER.

1) When pulling up to the bar or wherever we are playing, upon seeing the marquee, somebody will say:

“If I’ve told them once, I’ve told them a thousand times….Spinal Tap BEFORE puppet show”

And when harmonies aren’t going so well at practice, it’s a race to see who can stick their finger in their ear and sing a little bit of Elvis’ Heartbreak Hotel….. “Since my baby left…”, with our best English accent.

Thanks. Now I’m gonna go watch Spinal Tap. :-)

By N8

February 24, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Since I’m a Chiefs fan, I’ll throw my “king” reference into the mix. Even though it’s meant as an insult and more sarcasm than anything.

But Chiefs everywhere refer to their GM Carl Peterson, as “King Carl”, because of his harsh negotiations with free agents and draft picks.

One more David St. Hubbins quote before watching the flick. When talking about “Duke” (their rival rock star), opening up for them, David says:

“They were still booing him when we came on stage.”

Priceless.

By mr baseball

February 24, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

N8:

Baseball stats are wonders to behold, providing you can distinguish between those that mean something and those simply parrot the conventional wisdom. You get it.

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this

and when Diaz isn’t hitting right behind Frenchy who selfishly drives in all those runs without thought of sharing and who never gets on base to allow himself to be driven in, then he is hitting behind McFatts who is soo slooow that he costs Matt unknown numbers of RBI. Dontcha know that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter…oops wait… maybe there is now if Bill James can make up his mind.At any rate its all about the lineup.blather,blather,blather

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

the “conventional” wisdom is that HR and RBI still count for something. You gotta go with the highest correlations which are OPS and OBP. the rest is all just fill in, any decent hitter can do it in the right place, and RISP numbers tend to fluctuate throughout most player’s careers. Frenchy could hit .222 next year and then he’d be a bum. only the statistically challenged and nostalgic old fogies believe in that clutch hitter urban legend junk.

By BayAreaSteve

February 24, 2008 3:22 AM | Link to this

3,4,5,6 will not, and should not, differ from last year, in my opinon. Mr. Cox will probably even continue to flip-flop 5-6 based on the opposing pitcher. With his successful history of platooning, I can’t say that I blame him.

My question is why would Kotsay hit anywhere higher than 8? The best argument I’ve seen is Braveheart’s hypothesis that Kotsay would take better advantage of pitches he would see at the 2. This may be true, but does this make him superior to other options?

Where I do back down is when Chipper and KJ say, as DOB reported, that Kotsay would be best for the team at 1 or 2. I have little doubt those 2 cats know more than I.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

February 24, 2008 3:54 AM | Link to this

Mr.Baseball , your 2:05 was right on the money. I could not agree more.

Andruw Jones is in for a rude surprise out in Dodgerville. The boys in blue were ranked ninth in runs scored and RBI in the N.L. last season.

The Dodgers were ranked 14th in overall team defense.

Andruw will be expected to carry the offense as their cleanup hitter and improve the defense.

He certainly will help the defense. But , Andruw is going to have problems doing the other thing , he has little protection in that lineup other than Jeff Kent , the 39 year old second baseman.

By nOLIE

February 24, 2008 4:47 AM | Link to this

Rob Neyer says Chipper is a Hall of Famer alreadyESPN

How good is Chipper Jones? As Mark Bradley writes, “At 35 he had one of his greatest years, hitting .337 with 29 homers, driving in 102 runs and scoring 108.” Those numbers are particularly impressive for a third baseman. For whatever reason, great third basemen just haven’t typically enjoyed great production into their middle and later 30s. Mike Schmidt was finished at 38, Eddie Mathews at 36, Brooks Robinson at 38 … the list goes on. Apparently all that diving, and worrying about line drives from guys like Albert Belle and Dick Allen, takes a toll.

Chipper, though? When he’s in the lineup he’s still fantastic.

"Last year could have been my best all-around year. I was in the running for a Gold Glove -- my errors were way down, and my fielding percentage was up -- and I challenged for a batting title. And I hit .300 and drove in 100 and scored 100 just like I did when I was a younger cat."

Sometimes it takes an outside observer to bring a familiar sight into sharper relief. Steve Phillips, once the Mets' general manager and now an ESPN commentator, called Jones "the Derek Jeter of the National League" a couple of years ago, and Jeter is the most respected player in the sport. To be likened to him is the ultimate compliment. Jones took it as such.

"Jeter and I are good buddies," he says. "We've squared off in a couple of World Series, and I think he'll challenge 4,000 hits before he's through. He's a winner. I daresay I don't think he'll have any problem going into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot."

And his own Hall prospects? "I'm one of the guys who, if I quit right now, I wouldn't make it. I'm on the cusp. The next five or six years will tell the tale."

Bonus points to Jones for saying “daresay.” Debit points for mentioning himself and “Gold Glove” in the same sentence. I will also question his assumptions about Hall of Fame voters (though he might just be sandbagging). Hall of Fame voters appreciate batting average; Chipper’s career batting average is .307. Hall of Fame voters appreciate home runs; Chipper’s got 386 career homers, fourth all-time among third basemen. Hall of Fame voters appreciate RBIs; Chipper’s got nine 100-RBI seasons, including (most impressively) eight in a row (1996-2003).

Right now, he’s a Hall of Famer in my book. I’m not sure that 75 percent of the Hall of Fame voters would agree with me, but I’m sure he doesn’t need anything like five or six more good years. Chipper turns 36 this spring and probably doesn’t have five or six good years left. He might not have five or six years, period. But right now he’s got 386 homers and 1,299 RBIs. If he reaches 450 and 1,500 — three seasons’ worth, basically — isn’t he a lock? And if not I’d like to know why.

By BayAreaSteve

February 24, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this

Well done, Nolie. I feel he’s a HOFer now, but imo, he’s a second year guy, based on precedent.

He will be a HOF. Of that, I would bet my life. OK, it’s probably not worth my life. I will bet two lives: Robert’s life, aka farm animal fetish, and Anders’ life, the please, somebody, anybody look at me fetish.

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this

If he reaches 450 and 1,500 — three seasons’ worth, basically — isn’t he a lock? And if not I’d like to know why.nOLIE from Neyer

Crime Dog has those numbers beat, but I don’t really see any groundswell to get him in? Is that really enough in this age of inflated offensive numbers? I’d feel more secure about Chipper’selection with 500/1600+.

By William

February 24, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this

Crime Dog has those numbers beat, but I don’t really see any groundswell to get him in? Is that really enough in this age of inflated offensive numbers? I’d feel more secure about Chipper’selection with 500/1600+.

I’d say those “inflated” numbers, with any association with steroids are going to keep a bunch of guys from getting into the HOF. Ask Mr McGuire! I think/hope the voters will take those things in to account when considering guys like Crime Dog. If healthy I don’t see any reason why Chipper can’t approach the 500/1600 range, but I wouldn’t say he has to do that.

By ncscoots

February 24, 2008 6:45 AM | Link to this

C’mon, admit it. It’s fun to have a new entry such as Moby Grape. Shaun can carry his water, but I’m sure even he could use a day off every once in a while in the OBP wars.

And while discerning fans might agree that there are high correlations between winning and OBP/OPS, those same discerning fans know games aren’t played by coefficients, batting order positions have different missions, and some players fit those different missions better than others (regardless of OBP/OPS).

I would argue that those disregarding that little factoid in favor of allegiance to a statistical correlation are the true “statistically challenged”.

By Moby Grape

February 24, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

C’mon, admit it. It’s fun to have a new entry such as Moby Grape. Shaun can carry his water, but I’m sure even he could use a day off every once in a while in the OBP wars.ncscoots

Thanks I guess. I am a big believer in stats, but not to the exclusion of everything else. I hope somebody noticed that my tongue was pretty deep in my cheek on some of those posts. I can be a contrarian though, just to be one at times.

By Shaun

February 24, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

mr baseball, check out Ruben Sierra, 1993. His numbers with RISP: .243 AVG/.338 OBP/.462 SLG. Yet he drove in 100 runs.

The game that is played on the field is much more than OBP & OPS

Who said it wasn’t? But again, winning baseball is about scoring and preventing runs. And scoring runs is about getting on base and hitting for power. So tell me a way to measure getting on base and hitting for power that’s better than on-base percentage and slugging percentage and I’ll start ignoring those numbers. No good reason why those stats should be ignored. If you think they should, I’d suggest you wake up.

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Moby Grape, Chipper has played 13 seasons and already has more 100-RBI seasons (nine) than McGriff (eight) had in 18 seasons.

Chipper has a .307 career average, .403 OBP and .546 slugging percentage; McGriff finished at .284/.377./509.

Hoss won an MVP award; best McGriff ever finished was fourth.

McGriff had 441 doubles; Chipper already has 425.

McGriff had 1882 strikeouts and 1305 walks; Chipper has 1081 strikeouts and 1152 walks.

McGriff has borderline Hall of Fame stats, could go either way.

Chipper’s stat-comparable peers are in the Hall. (And I’m not even considering his switch-hitter status, since I know some Hall voters don’t really care about that.)

If he quit today, he’d probably get in. If he has another two or three 25-30 homer, 100-RBI seasons, he’s a mortal lock and will get plenty of first-ballot votes.

By chpr10j

February 24, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

DOB, what time the players arriving today for workouts?? Last few days in Orlando and still looking for Chippers auto…7 years in a row, everyone but “U Know Who”….

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Players roll in all morning, because some have their physicals at staggered times today.

Those who had them yesterday will probably start arriving about 10, but it’s loose. Workout isn’t until 1 p.m., but some will hit in the cages or lift weights before the workout.

By wiki

February 24, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

N8

I stand corrected about the Chipper debut in ‘93…..I think that since that’s the first time I had seen Chipper play (BTW wearing #16 that year) that I assumed it was his first AB. A vivid memory nonetheless!

By chpr10j

February 24, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks…I guess I am off to the park. Must get that “U Know Who” auto! lol

By Braveheart

February 24, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

“Even when opportunity knocks a man still has to get up off his seat and open the door”

You can’t just focus upon the opportunities and ignore the disparity in execution during said opportunities by Diaz and Frenchy.

By AmazinsAgin08

February 24, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Hey Moby I really liked youse guys first album, but you fell apart pretty quick. Whot happened?

By Patrick

February 24, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Chipper also had done it clean according to all evidence that’s out there. And that is defintely something the voters take notice of now that can only help Chipper’s case even more.

By Austin

February 24, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

I have one simple say on the Francoeur/Diaz debate.

If it ain’t broke dont fix it

I think KJ should lead off, with Yunel and his Escobar approach right behind him.

By Austin

February 24, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

One more Diaz/Francoeur Stat

Diaz hit .288 in close and late situations while Francoeur hit .322

So who do you want hitting behind Tex and Chipper in those situations?

By WarParty

February 24, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

N8,

Chiefs fans everywhere are counting down the days for King Carl’s contract to run out. At the end of the 2009 campaign, I’m throwing a ‘Ding dong, the King is dead’ party.

By Smoky Joe Wood

February 24, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

If time and cruel fate had not robbed Willie Mays of the wondrous benefits of steroids and HGH, and if he had also been bitten by a radioactive spider, then (and only then) he might have approached the raw talents of Jordan Schafer.

(Sorry, had not seen The Kid hyped all day, and thought it needed fixin’.)

By Braveheart

February 24, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Very nice to see Bob Ryan back at work on The Sports Reporters.

Cool conversations yesterday about the greatest moments. Very cool dialogue between 10Greg and N8. Congrats to 10Greg on the Vols winning last night and being ranked #1.

College sports have gone crazy when Tennessee is a top basketball program and Kansas is a top football program.

Congrats to Wayne for that Jazz victory last night.

By David-ATL14

February 24, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Nice memories * Greg in TN*.

Enjoyed reading about them and racing back in time with you.

Nice job also to DOB on the Hansborogh bandwagon derailment.

He could very well be the single most overrated player in quite some time in the ACC.

He’s good, nowhere close to an elite player. Yet we have absurd statements trying to place him in a group of players that he will never belong in.

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, very good point about Tennessee/Kansas bizarro world….

David-ATL14, thanks. Had to be done. I think he’s an extremely good college player, and I’d love to have him on my team. But no need to compare him to the truly, historically all-time great players. Just no basis for that.

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Going to clubhouse, will crank out a new blog after I get back up. Hopefull will have rotation plans then, not have to wait until after workout to get them.

Should be interesting, because of the Smoltz situation (only making a couple or three starts this spring, otherwise getting his work in sim games)

By N8

February 24, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

WarParty

“Chiefs fans everywhere are counting down the days for King Carl’s contract to run out. At the end of the 2009 campaign, I’m throwing a ‘Ding dong, the King is dead’ party.”

Count me in.

Not to bore the Braves faithful here, but who do you want in the #5 spot of the draft this year?

I could go with either Jake Long or Clady, if they insist on going LT with the first pick. Or I would be OK with Ellis as well. I’d even be happy trading down to get more picks, since I think the LT position is very deep this year.

Just so long as whoever we take at #5 isn’t a bust (as in Ryan Sims)

Thoughts?

By Tomahawkin' Again (like it's 1995)

February 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

DOB, 2 questions to ask you before I am off to Dark Star to catch this afternoon’s workout: (1) Could you compare covering Bobby to Jim Leyland when you were the Marlins beat writer for the Sun-Sentinel? How they treated the reporters, giving good sound-bites, things like that; (2) After reading all the bloggers best Braves memories (all fantastic, good job denizens), what is your best as a beat writer covering a team? ‘97 Marlins winning gm 7, any Braves seasons, specific games, etc? Thanks and see at the park (I’ll be wearing my ‘91 NL Champs hat)

By ncscoots

February 24, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Moby, think some of us might have missed that tongue placement, LOL. We gotta get up to speed on your sense of humor before we can catch irony, sarcasm, or wit in the written word. :-)

I spit at the mention of Hansbrough’s name, so I’m not the least biased authority on his place in ACC history. I’ll only say that his name doesn’t spring to my lips unsought when the topic of “greatest” comes up. Please.

Add Hansbrough posts to Wayne’s (a Clemson alum, fer pete’s sake!) mention of John Roche last night, and it was just about enough to make me forgo breakfast. :-) But a growing boy in the middle of housing renovations needs his energy, so I ate, anyway.

By McFann

February 24, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Hey, Moby Grape, that 2:54 AM post of yours better have been a fake!

By Greg in TN

February 24, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Afternoon gang…

Thanks Braveheart, lots of folks around town don’t quite know how to act right now. Timing isn’t too good in terms of hanging on to that lofty ranking with a trip to Nashville on tap for Tuesday. Vandy will be very ready.

Good times yesterday talking Braves memories with the denizens and really enjoyed the conversation with N8 on Tap. That’s what keeps me coming back folks, baseball and banter.

I know it’s early, but it’s really tough not to get excited with the reports from DOB and Lew from Dark Star. I am cautiously optimistic about how Hampton is progressing and I’m really pleased with how Jurrjen’s is going about his business this spring.

I read Mark Bowman’s article on the team site (link) on having Chipper and Tex back-to-back this year in the three and four hole. I can’t emphasize enough how important that is to the success of this team in ‘08. Two switch hitters, two high OPS guys. If we can have these guys at the core of the lineup for 140-150 games, we’ll have a great shot at making noise again in September and October.

By BravesFanInRockies

February 24, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

DOB and DAVIS-ATL14,

Re: Hansbrough — perhaps a reach, because Thompson and Sampson changed the way the game was played by wing and post players.

But with Psycho T, it’s more than effort. He has improved every facet of his game since his freshman year. He can arguably defend all three front court positions. He plays the passing lanes as well as many wing players.

And then consider the stats. He’s going to be the only player in league history to be 1st team all-conference in his first three years.

This season he has the highest scoring average in Carolina history since Charles Scott.

He’a already set the school record for free throws made and attempted — dude’s getting 8 points a game at the line. If they go deep in the NCAAs, he’s going to break Laettner’s all time ACC FT record. (And Laettner played four years.)

If he maintains his per-game scoring average, he’ll surpass Dennis Scott for highest career scoring for a junior in the ACC.

He’s got to be in the conversation, and he should be whether he goes out this year or not. I also think we may be unlikely to see another large post player with his skill set and determination play this long at the top level of collegiate competition. (There’ll be one-and-dones, but no one who’ll stick around for three or four years.)

As for Beasley, yes, he’s a beast. But if K-State loses in the first or second round of the NCAAs and Hansbrough continues putting up stats and wins, does that make Beasley the best? It’s sorta like the arguments over who should be MLB’s MVP — the player with the best stats or the player who has a larger impact on the season (as in, who delivers meaningful victories)?

By Chase

February 24, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

These guys proved these spots deserving last year with Escobar a little better in stats as leadoff.

*Okay, Kotsay…He must work himself back in—1. prove he’s healthy 2. prove his pre-back-injury numbers are returning 3. have less strain and stress at season’s outset to help with these issues. Couple of choices: 1. Batting him 8th, and switching with Johnson occasionaly would assure less strain and stress on his back and would give him that chance to work himself in or, 2. Bat him sixth, giving him a “quasi-leadoff” ahead of two 300 hitters, McCann and Diaz. Considering his past back problem, this second chioce may be best because he wouldn’t be caught in sliding situations ahead of a bunting, move-the runner-up, pitcher.

If Kotsay is a short-term center field solution, let’s give Johnson a chance to prove himself further in those up-front spots, with occasional visits from Kotsay wehn warranted—esepcially the first half season.

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Writing a new blog now. Charlie Morton is gonna face the Dawgs, by the way. He’ll get the start and go two innings.

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

By David O'Brien

February 24, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: OK, you convinced me. Hansbrough is the best free-throw shooting big man in ACC history. Agreed.

As for the rest, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Because if you think he’s a better college player this season than Michael Beasley, that he’s more deserving of player of the year, well, couldn’t disagree with you more.

Oh, and you wrote: “This season he has the highest scoring average in Carolina history since Charles Scott.”

Let me ask you: If Michael Jordan played in Roy Williams’ system instead of Dean Smith’s, what do you think M.J.’s scoring average might have been? Or James Worthy’s, for that matter.

I’m go out on a limb and predict Jordan would’ve averaged more than 25 a game. Just a hunch.

By Bobby's Cox

February 24, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

i’m a Ralph Lawler fan!

By mark

February 25, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Josh Anderson should lead off and play center…Kotsay will be worthless…We should have kept Devine, terrible trade.

By Jonathan

February 25, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

O’Brien: Johnson must be in one of the top two spots, or the Braves are simply wasting his offensive ability (likely .850+ OPS)

Using him in a position like seventh – especially behind the less-productive Francoeur (103 OPS+ versus Johnson’s 117 OPS+) – is simply wasteful, because less productive players accrue a greater percentage of the team’s overall plate-appearances.