AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > February > 01 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USPitching camp convenes, spring training nears
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
After the first day of Roger McDowell’s Braves pitching camp at Turner Field, we can say with a great deal of certainty that reliever Peter Moylan has the most heavily tattoed pitching arm in major league baseball.
The good-natured Aussie has lost his mind.
OK, that’s not fair, especially coming from an idiot who has Johnny Cash and Hunter Thompson tattoos.
But really, Moylan has every square inch of his right arm illustrated with ink, after adding a large koi fish tattoo to his inner biceps over the winter — the last significant previously unadorned space he had from wrist to shoulder. I will say, he’s got good work. These aren’t amateur-hour tatts.
If pitchers were permitted to work with uniform sleeves cut at the shoulders, Moylan’s intricate tattoos alone could mesmerize batters into 0-2 counts, where they might be defenseless against the slider he perfected last season.
But anyway …
Let’s get serious here. Pitching camp, Day 1.
What did we observe or learn that we can quickly relate to the good denizens of the Braves/MIB blog?
I’ll try to keep each item brief so that I can get it all in without putting you to sleep.
— Hudson looks, sounds serious: Tim Hudson is in excellent physical condition — but that shouldn’t be surprising, considering the man always looks more like an 800-meter runner or Olympic swimmer than a baseball player. Fit, fit, fit.
What you should care about most is how motivated Hudson seems, how much he wants to get the Braves back to the postseason after a two-year absence, and how Johan Santana going to the Mets only seems to have him more fired up.
“I feel good about our team, top to bottom,” Hudson said. “I like where were are, as a team and a [pitching] staff.
“We can’t be consumed by what other teams are doing. I think we’re pretty good ourselves. I feel real good about our team. I don’t care what other teams are getting.”
As for Santana, with whom he’s quite familiar from his American League years, Hudson said, “He’s pretty good, but he’s not unbeatable. He got hit around a little bit last year.”
When the two pitchers squared off June 14 at Minnesota, Hudson threw seven shutout innings of two-hit ball, while Santana allowed two runs and five hits in seven innings with nine strikeouts, including a Brian McCann home run.
Bob Wickman blew that game by allowing three runs in the ninth, not the first or last game the later-released Braves closer blew for Hudson last season.
Hudson is coming off his first truly “normal” offseason as a Brave, the first in which he wasn’t either concerned about living up to a new contract, or trying to strengthen troublesome abdominal muscles, or hearing trade rumors, etc.
And with Tom Glavine added to a rotation that leaned far too heavily on Smoltz and Hudson last year, both Smoltz and Hudson say they’re eager and optimistic about the Braves’ chances in 2008.
— Glavine has settled in: The first month or so were a whirlwind for Glavine in his return to the Braves. But 41-year-old lefty said he’s gotten back into a routine, has no health issues, and feels better about spring training and the upcoming season than he’s been in a long time.
“I’ve been looking forward to spring training, and this [pitching camp] is a little bit of an appetizer,” said Glavine, who didn’t have any early pitching camps in five seasons with the Mets. “It’s always nice to get a jump on things, so you can start working on things from Day 1 when you get to spring training.”
He made it clear that his improved attitude about the upcoming season wasn’t a reflection of the Mets or how he was treated. He liked the team and the city.
He just hated being away from his family for such long stretches. As he prepared for spring training the the past five seasons, he did so knowing that when the Mets went north, he’d be flying over his family and their Alpharetta home and to New York or wherever the Mets were opening the season.
This time, Glavine knows he’ll be coming home after we’re done in Florida.
“It’s a different feeling,” he said. “Not that I didn’t look forward to spring training when I was with the Mets. But there was a bittersweet feeling, knowing that I was going to be away from my family. Now it’s six weeks of spring training, and knowing I’m going to come back home after it’s over. It feels good.”
“It’s exciting. We’re looking forward to seeing how it all comes together.”
I didn’t ask him about trading Port St. Lousy (he didn’t call it that) for Dark Star (and he didn’t call it that), but I’m sure he’d say the restaurants are a lot better in the greater Orlando area.
Oh, and the Massachusetts native picks the Patriots on Sunday, 30-17.
— Oh, one more thing about Johan: Before I forget, how many out there in Braves Nation still think the Braves should or could have traded for Santana?
Great pitcher, but in my view the price tag is simply too enormous for any team that doesn’t have the deep revenue streams that come with things like a new, Citibank-sponsored ballpark, a huge market, and your own cable network.
But unless the price tag goes over $20 mill a year for Mark Teixeira, I can already hear Braves fans howling about the team’s mistake if they don’t sign him. And on that one, I’ll probably be in agreement with the fans.
Need to get it done.
And yes, they really should get a Jeff Francoeur deal done before the season. And you know what? I get a feeling the Braves will.
“I’m not at liberty to discuss contract negotiations that may or may not be taking pace,” GM Frank Wren said rather coyly.
— Speaking of Frenchy: He’s bigger. Francoeur’s arms and shoulders are more muscular after an offseason working out with a trainer and football players in one of those serious, high-tech programs designed for high-level sports.
He’s added upper-body strength without getting any bulkier. If anything he looks a little more lean everwhere except the arms and shoulders.
Another who is noticeably more muscular: Brandon Jones. Initially I didn’t even recognize the rookie outfielder when I stepped into the room that houses the indoor batting cages and saw him in there taking swings Friday.
The shoulder that Jones hurt in winter ball? No problem. “We call it a stateside wound,” Wren joked, and by that he meant the type of injury a player sometimes gets when he’s ready to come home.
— Blaine Boyer looks, sounds ready: He’s healthy, he’s out of minor league options, and he’s excited for a chance to show and remind everyone what he’s got.
Whether it’s with the Braves or another major league team, I’m gonna predict that Boyer will make an impact this season. He’s nearly two years removed from shoulder surgery and spent the offseason strengthening his legs, a smart move that should help the power pitcher take some stress off that arm.
Boyer told me that he’s getting more extension with his pitching arm than he ever got before, that he didn’t realize before how he was “cutting off” his follow-through, probably because of the discomfort he’d get in his arm.
He said he’s noticed a big difference in how the ball “explodes” from his hand.
Hey, this Braves bullpen is deeper than before, and he’s going to have to earn a spot, not get one just because he’s out of options. But Boyer looks fully capable of doing that. He was popping the catcher’s mitt Friday, throwing hard with an easy delivery on the first day of pitching camp.
— Infante stops by clubhouse: Omar Infante had hoped to get the pin removed Friday from his surgically repaired left hand, but he’s going to have to wait another couple of weeks.
It’s only been two weeks since the veteran utility man had surgery to repair a broken bone after he was hit by a pitch in Venezuelan winter league game.
Infante seems like a real good guy, a friendly sort who apologized for not speaking better English when he answered a couple of reporters’ questions Friday. We explained to him that we’re always grateful when guys try to communicate like he did, and besides, his English really isn’t that bad.
(Certainly it’s a lot better than my Spanish, which is basically non-existent. Hardly a day goes by when I’m not reminded what a wise decision that was by me, taking French instead of Spanish in college. Bonehead. Where’s the guidance counselor when you need one….)
Anyway, Infante still is expected to be ready no later than mid-April, and the Braves aren’t ruling out the possibility of him opening the season with them. Either way, Wren told me he’s satisfied with the bench and isn’t looking to add.
— Thoughts on Lillibridge, Thorman: I asked if Scott Thorman is still considered the backup first baseman, and was told he was. Bobby Cox said the Braves will also play him some in the outfield during spring training.
Wren said the Braves have several ways they could go filling out their bench with what they have now, and that he doesn’t expect those decisions to be finalized until late in spring training. He didn’t get into specifics.
As for Brent Lillibridge, I relayed the question to Wren that someone had for me here last week: Do the Braves consider him a future every-day player or a super-utility type guy?
The GM confirmed what I said last week: Braves believe Lillibridge could end up being either type of player.
“He can do a lot of different things,” Wren said. “No doubt he can be a frontline shortstop.”
But he can also play a lot of different positions, and Wren noted that Lillibridge is more than willing to give that role a go if that’s where he’s needed.
— OK, gotta cut it off here: There was other stuff, but we’re going on forever. Waay long. Sorry about that. Hope I didn’t bog you down with stuff…. John Smoltz wasn’t there today but is expected to show up after he gets back from the Super Bowl…. Mike Hampton may or may not come to the camp, but Braves said it’s perfectly fine if he wants to keep throwing on his own in Orlando, where he has a home (he also has one in Phoenix)…. Oh, and Moylan is working on a changeup that he thinks will really help him against lefty hitters. He’s in great shape, too, by the way, after a winter of swimming workouts in the ocean.
— Just one stat before we leave: Glavine went 18-27 with a 4.03 ERA in his first 62 starts for the Mets from opening day 2003 to Sept. 18, 2004. After making big adjustments in his approach, including pitching inside a lot more, he went 43-29 with a 3.93 ERA in his final 102 starts with the Mets, including those bad three at end of last season.
Here’s how some random pitchers of Braves/MIB blog interest have done since Sept. 19, 2004:
Jon Garland 48-30, 4.07 ERA, 661 innings (100 starts).
Greg Maddux 44-41, 4.29 ERA, 650 innings (106 starts).
Brad Penny 39-23, 3.75 ERA, 575-1/3 innings (96 starts).
Tim Hudson 43-32, 3.95 ERA, 654-2/3 innings (101 starts).
Barry Zito 41-37, 4.10 ERA, 664-2/3 innings (105 starts).
Oliver Perez 27-29, 4.82 ERA, 412-1/3 innings (74 starts).
Tom Glavine 43-29, 3.93 ERA, 628 innings (102 starts).
And since we’ve been playing the Gimme Back My Bullets CD a lot lately:
”EVERY MOTHER’S SON” by Ronnie Van Zant & Allen Collins
Well I’ve been ridin’ a winning horse for a long, long time
Sometimes I wonder is this the end of the line
No one should take advantage of who they are
No man has got it made
If he thinks he does, he’s wrong
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
I’ve seen it happen so many times, so many times before
Some man got so much money he doesn’t worry no more
Or he’s got such a pretty woman that’ll treat him fine
Well my friend has been a fool
It happens every time
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
I’m not tryin’ to preach to no one, to no one at all
I’ve seen so many of my good friends just rise to fall
‘Cause they got so much money or a woman so fine
Well my friends have all been fools, it happens every time
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
What I say
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
Services »
Comments
By McFann
February 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
First?
Yeah, the tattoos are prob’ly the reason why Moylen wore long sleeves in 100 degree weather.
By Geraldo
February 1, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Second?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
First?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
DOB- how do any of the potential back of the rotation guys look?
By richbrave
February 1, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
THIRD?
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Ipp: I should’ve put in the main post that Chuck James is only now starting to throw off flat ground from 90 feet. He and Braves still believe he’ll be ready for spring training, but I have my doubts.
And when he confides that his shoulder is still a bit sore some days … well, I’ve got my doubts about him and that shoulder, let’s just put it that way.
For his sake, I hope I’m wrong.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 1, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Okay, LET”S PLAY BALL!!!! I’m rested and ready…..
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
I wish opening day was tomorrow. Here’s your 2008 Mets rotation the braves will be facing. Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez (the brave killer), El Duque/Pelfrey. Bullpen: Feliciano, Sosa, Heilman, Sanchez, Wise, Wagner. I do expect one more move by the Mets for a long relief pitcher. Maybe Lohse or Hernandez.
By David-ATL14
February 1, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Outstanding blog DOB.
Gets the baseball fires burning with unbridled enthusiasm.
By McFann
February 1, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
I wish Opening Day was tomorrow, too. Perez a Braves killer? Most of the time, yes. But take a look at 9/26/06 and 8/07/07. They hit him hard in those games!!
By Efrim
February 1, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Well, the Chuck thing ain’t good news. Not to mention Hampton isn’t the healthiest and Jair Jurrjens has an injury history. We’ll see……
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Your Key phrase is “Most of the Time” Mcfann.
By Bill
February 1, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Braves will be lucky to finish .500.Boycott them and get this sham of an ownership group and sell the team to someone who wants to win.
By Jim
February 1, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Ronnie Van Zant…….Man, what a talent. Oh what could have been (if not for that damn plane crash). I think I’ll go have a beer and throw on “Gimme Back My Bullets” too.
Oh yeah, I predict Hudson and/or Smoltz will have an equal or better season than Santana this year. How many times have the Muts been pegged as “the team to beat” over the last few years?…..and how many times has it panned out?….one year I believe it was. I’m still laughing about their monumental collapse last season…….great stuff . Oh well, time to go listen to Skynyrd.
By Alan
February 1, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Great work as always, DOB. Accompanying pictures of “Camp Roger” are neat, too, although I’m a tad perplexed that the Braves allowed the “enemy” (A. Jones) to participate in the workouts. And what gives with Damian Moss? Did he accompany Moylan from Australia? Another observation about Santana. I live in Scranton, PA (yes, home of “The Office”) and I drive frequently to Philadelphia on business. Wednesday morning, the guys on Philly’s #1 sports radio station (WIP 610-AM) talked about how Santana would affect the NL East race between the Phillies and the Mets. Not once all morning did hosts or callers mention the Braves. The closest they came was when an alleged expert referred to Tom Glavine as “done.” Philadelphia is a great city, but their fans are obnoxious and arrogant - and they haven’t won a championship in any professional sport since 1980! Give me a break.
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Moss was working out in Braves gear, but isn’t signed. They’ve not decided whether they’ll sign him, but it’d be a minor league deal if anything.
By AdirondackDave
February 1, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the very good read, DOB. Sounds like positive attitudes on the club about ‘08.
Signing Santana is certainly a strong plus for the Mets but, man, a 7-year huge dollar contract for ANY pitcher seems scary to me. I’d go 7 years for Tex before Santana for the same money. I’d like to see some serious research into the health of pitchers vs. position players on those long-term contracts. Seems to me, at least anecdotally, that pitchers don’t hold up as well as position players. DOB or anybody have anything on this?
I’m still more concerned about the Phillies than the Mets because of the damage Rollins, Utley, and Howard are going to do.
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
A few 2007 pitching stats:
NAME IP ERA SO WHIP K/9
BRAVES Smoltz: 205.2 3.11 197 1.18 8.46 Hudson: 224.1 3.33 132 1.22 5.30 Glavine: 200.1 4.45 89 1.41 4.00 Hampton: - - - - - James: 161.1 4.24 116 1.38 6.47 Jurrjens: 30.2 4.70 13 1.14 3.87 Reyes: 50.2 6.22 27 1.68 4.80 Bennett: 13.0 3.46 14 1.31 9.69 Carlyle 107.0 5.21 74 1.39 6.22
METS Santana: 219.0 3.33 235 1.07 9.66 Martinez: 28.0 2.57 32 1.43 10.29 Maine: 191.0 3.91 180 1.27 8.48 Perez: 177.0 3.56 174 1.31 8.85 Hernandez: 147.2 3.72 128 1.17 7.80 Pelfrey: 72.2 5.57 45 1.71 5.57
Make of it what you will, but I think that if ANY Mets starter is out for any length of time, they’re in trouble again this year, whereas we are set for backups.
By flange1
February 1, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the new blog! I am excited about the season. Not so good news about Chuck. I didn’t like that picture on AJC with the heating pad strapped to him.
Are Bennett or Morton at this camp?
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 1, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Ipp… I agree; every team will have one or two of their starting 5 have injuries or ineffectiveness over 162 games. The braves have depth to cover this almost certainty. There is no one right now the mets can count on to “hold the fort” should one of their starters pull a hamstring, or need Tommy John surgery. GO BRAVES….
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Its a done deal and now let the games begin. I hope you enjoyed the script becasue until the season starts there is nothing more to do than to have fun. When the season starts everybody will be serious about baseball and you guys can realize that the METS are serious about erasing 07’. Santana is now a MET and the marlins got Gonzo. That should send you straight to the cellar and thats cool with the rest of the NL East.
BIG BLUE AND METS, WHAT A COMBO OF CHAMPS!!!!!
By ncgary
February 1, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
5 yr estenesion + his 13 million this year 7 million sign bonus 137 million guaranteed through 2014. johan gave in 2 year and 38 million from his original demands
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Smotlz 41, Hudson 32, Glavine 42…..Santana 28, Martinez 36, Maine 27. Make of it what you will but if any of the brave top three go down…….
By TK
February 1, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB…Do you think Joe Nathan of the Twins is next to be traded? It would be nice to see him closing for the Braves. If the Braves could steal him from the Twins. The Braves would have one of the better (if not best) bullpens in baseball.
By Braves Fan
February 1, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’ve always loved your blog.
But this one was by far your best yet.
My question:
What position do you think Blaine could win in the bullpen? Long relief? Short relief? I remember him when he was playing CF at Walton, so he’s my favorite player.
By Mike Honcho
February 1, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Sniper-69
what?? Now you think that Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine are going to go down??? what if PEREZ, PEDRO AND EL DUQUE GO DOWN!!!(more likely to happen) HA THEN WHAT??? who are you putting in Santana, Santana, Santana and Santana,Santana?? you Mets fans are thinking that Santana is going to pitch for the entire rotation. or What, PELFREY?? He’s a Scrub with a mouthpiece.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 1, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Sniper.. what happens if one of the Met top three go down? Braves have some depth, mets? Not so much
GO BRAVES….
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Told you guys that extensions could be granted. Now that thae deal is done do you realy feel secure about the braves rotation? You have to have some concern thats not delusional nor septic waste material, right DOB, LEW..anyone??
By Kev
February 1, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Sniper-69
Why dont you continue the Rotation, cause it’s a 5-MAN ROTATION…who you got after that Perez,26, and EL DUQUE???50 at least?? when he goes down who are you going to bring in, becaues after Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine,we have C.James,26, Jo-Jo Reyes,23,Jair Jurrjens,22, Jeff Bennett,27,and in the Minors just in case, the former 14 game winner Ryan Drese,32, HECK we’re taking 10 avalible STARTING PITCHERS to Spring Training, WANT MORE DEPHT THAN THAT!!!
I dont see the Mets have that much after Santana,Maine and Perez.And we all now the INCONSISTENCIES the last two have.
IN MAINE AND PEREZ YOU TRUST!!!!
By ATL
February 1, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
DOB- Is Camp Roger open to fans or is it strictly players and media?
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Kevin, all those no names you just mention could be package to get you a real MLB starter and contend NOW…like the METS did. Your talking “ifs” and on pitchers that have no MLB track record. Good luck on that because you do pull great minor league talent out your arse, but right about now with the METS rotation, its really doesnt matter.
By JasonInMaine
February 1, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
I am excited for the season to start. I think the Braves have a great chance this year, especially if they can get a healthy Hampton in the rotation. DOB, if James can’t go; give us your prediction of who will win the 5th spot. I have a feeling that Jurrjens, but I know they are pretty high on Jo-Jo.
When I first heard the Mets got Johan, I was PO’d…mostly because I thought they were the team to beat. They are good no doubt, but I like our chances.
By The Flushing Will Not Stop
February 1, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
It’s cold and overcast most of the time and the air smells like rancid milk here in NYC, but suddenly my life has meaning: we got Johan Santana, the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball. I predict that in 2008 Johan will win 50 games, Pedro will win 45, Maine will win 35, Perez 35, and El Duque 25. That’s 190 wins which should be good enough to clinch the division. Jose will hit at least 80 home runs and steal about 300 bases, and so will David, only he will hit more home runs. That big contract Johan got instantly makes the 2008 Mets the greatest team in baseball history.
By Bops
February 1, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Signing Tex long term will put the fear right back to the mets. I’ll take Texiera in the lineup everyday over a pitcher that plays once every 5 days.
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
ATL, just players and media. Barely enough room in the indoor batting cages for just that many folks.
By bravesfan
February 1, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
DOB, who are you picking in the Super Bowl, and what’s going to be the score?
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Let the Mantra begin. “We dont care what the METS are doing, we just have to take care of our business.” We all know what that ‘business “is, hoping to get that wild card because there is no way to make up for this 5 game hole we are in before pitchers and catchers even report!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
By JT
February 1, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Met Man
Ime going to let the Playing to all the TALKING!!!. See ya on April 4.
By ATL
February 1, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info DOB
By Cheap Seats
February 1, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
Bummer about Chuck James. Absolute bummer. Must be horrible for him in his mind, playing the denial game.
I remember when I heard a horrible, horrible pop in my right shoulder playing intramural football in college trying to give someone the Heisman stiffarm. Horrific. I couldn’t tell the coach because I wasn’t allowed to play any other sport besides baseball. I had already received enough hell from the coach and been suspended the year before when I broke my ankle playing pickup basketball.
I tried to hide the bum shoulder but then the shoulder separated when I swung during a scrimmage game one day and was dangling like a broken mannequin arm as I was running to first. When I was trying to pull a Riggs from Lethal Weapon and pop it back into place while standing on first, the coach finally caught on.
The arm was never the same. Career and dreams were kaput. The aura of invincibility for a very stupid reckless teen gone in a flash. A stupid meaningless freaking football game.
The Chuckster ain’t going through the same thing physically but I can relate to the denial game you play with your head and body because you never want to let that dream die.
Keep dreaming, fighting, and believing Chuckster. The Braves need ya. You too Hampton.
By wiki
February 1, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Yeah, met man is right. The Mets just signed a baseball player that puts his pants on one leg at a time. We Braves’ fans should just hang it up. We have no cause to even concern ourselves with the Braves this season. There’s so much other stuff to deal with anyway (the economy, global warming, etc). We should just shut this blog down since the Braves are not worthy of our discussion. Wait a second…..what would met man do with his long blogless weeks and months ahead?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
Pitchers and innings pitched: NAME IP
BRAVES Smoltz: 205.2 Hudson: 224.1
Glavine: 200.1 Hampton: - James: 161.1
Jurrjens: 30.2 Reyes: 50.2 Bennett: 13.0 Carlyle 107.0
METS Santana: 219.0 Martinez: 28.0 Maine: 191.0 Perez: 177.0 Hernandez: 147.2 Pelfrey: 72.2
According to last year’s stats, the Mutts have enough starting pitching on the depth chart to average 5.15 innings per game, whereas the Bravos have 5.82 NOT COUNTING the fact that at least THREE (Davies, Cormier, He Who Must Not Be Named) of last year’s back of the Ro’ guys, who got a significant number of starts, are no longer with the franchise. That adds up to an extra 80 or so innings needed from the bullpen, and oh, by the way, does anyone happen to know how deep Flushing’s bullpen is?
By Springsteen's Santa Ana
February 1, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
Screw this Santana talk. Let’s go with a great song by Springsteen called Santa Ana:
From the tin rooftop the little boy did watch The procession down through town Through the museum where Daniel whupped the Devil With them boys from the underground Where the Giants of Science fight for tight control Over the wildlands of New Mexico Sam Houston’s ghost’s in Texas fighting for his soul And the townsfolk rest uneasy beneath the guns of Kid Cole And the kid says: “Hey, where’s Santa Ana He who could romance the dumb into talking Take a chance with me tonight, my contessa, If it don’t work out I ain’t lame, I can walk” Now some folks think cancer’s taken to the streets of this town But Sandy eats her candy and then lays her money down Them cats are in from the canyons to strut their stuff in town But there’s only secret sinners here Lord, there’s only secret thieves Only a fool would try to save What the desert chose to leave And hey there senorita, With your playboys in their Spanish bandanas French cream won’t soften those boots, baby French kisses will not break your heart
Oh painted night set free with light Glows outside the Rainbow Saloon Matching braces with a Spanish lady ‘Neath a graduation moon No more colleges, no more coronations Some punk’s idea of a teenage nation Has forced Santa Ana to change his station From soldier to cartoon And the Giants of Science spend their days and nights Not with wives, not with lovers, but searchin’ for the lights They spotted in the desert on their helicopter flights Just to be lost in the dust and the night Hey my Contessa, in your juke joint rags you always bring candy for the kids Come waltz with me tonight senorita ‘Cause only fools are alone on a night like this
By N8
February 1, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Hey Mets trolls…..a couple of questions for you.
What ON EARTH would you do if Santana got hurt? Why are you guys better off than the Twins, who couldn’t get to the WS with Santana?
It appears to me that just a couple of weeks ago, you guys had NO ROTATION. While you are for sure better in that department, with this trade, Santana will ONLY pitch in around 35 of your games.
Who’s gonna toe the slab, in the other 127? Pedro? ROFLMFAO! Puuuuuleeeeez. Oliver Perez and his “breakout season” last year? Remember Jaret Wright? He had a “breakout” season for us a few years back too. I want to see him repeat it.
Where with us, even WITHOUT Hampton (and knowing who exactly fills out our 4-5 spots), we know EXACTLY what we are going to get (barring injury), with Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine.
Beyond Santana, what can you “guarantee” me, based on a LONG track record, (not just a flash in the pan season)???
Even with Santana, our top three is better than your top three.
Period.
And if Hampton (who has about as much chance at pitching 150+ innings as Pedro does), is healthy, your top four AINT EVEN CLOSE.
You can say it was just like when we added Maddux to our team in 1993, but it’s NOT CLOSE. We ALREADY had the best pitching staff in MLB in 1992, THEN added the reigning Cy Young winner.
You just took a 13 game winner (Glavine) off your staff and added a 15 game winner.
No disrespect, but this move helps you LONGTERM, way more than it improves your club short-term. Which is very similar to what the Maddux signing did for us in 93. Charlie Leibrandt is who Maddux replaced. In 1992 Maddux won 20 games for the Cubs, Leibrandt won 15 games for us, and until we added McGriff at the deadline in 93, it didn’t do us a DAMN bit of good.
So, while I can appreciate your excitement about adding Johan to the your staff (I surely would be), it’s not nearly as scary for me, as a Braves fan, as if you would have added him while keeping Glavine at the same time.
It should be a fun season. But like I said, if he goes down, then what? If Smoltz goes down, we STILL have Hudson. If Hudson goes down, we STILL have Glavine. If Johan goes down, you have Pedro (typed while giggling), if Pedro goes down…… you’ve got BIG TROUBLE.
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Bullpen and spot starters, I mean. I’m not even sure how many starts the six Mets starters I listed combined for last year. I’m pretty sure they’re going to be up the creek at some point in the season, though, whereas the Braves have more than enough to get by.
By Kev
February 1, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
Hey Met Man
Have you ever seen John Maine’s career stats???? 23-19, 4.19 ERA, 324 IP,59 G, 151 ER,47 HR,276 SO???
DUDE!!! YOU DONT EVEN WANT TO KNOW OLIVER PEREZ’s. YOUR COUNTING on a BUNCH of NOBODYS!!!! after your ALMIGTHY SANTANA.perez??? El Duque???,Maine??? Pedro???? the guy hasnt pitched for a year, he’s more rusty than my grandmother. and dont even mention PELFREY…he’s just MINOR LEAGUE TALENT that your going to use in a trade, to fill the LF,when Alou or Endy go down or the 2B if Castillo goes down, or RF…you name it… you dont have the DEPTH WE HAVE!!!!!
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
If last year Glavine, El Duque, Maine, Perez and Pelfrey, Sosa, Sele, Ho Park were better than the braves starters then how can Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque/Pelfrey not be an improvement??? Are you brave fan saying they won’t exceed the 88 win they got last year?? I’m thinking at minimum they’re at least five games better. That’s 93 wins which should at worst make the wild card. Of course I think they’re at least 10 games better which wins the division but you guys act like the Mets are just a .500 team. C’mon get real.
By mr baseball
February 1, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Lots of defensiveness on here re: Santana signing. Not that many big bucks free agent pitchers have been worth the dough. He might be, but then again…
Optimism is the popular choice from fans going into Spring Training, but here’s a Rudy Giuliani scenario ($40 million, 1 delegate) for the Braves’ pitching staff.
Smoltz’s right elbow finally blows up.
Glavine is done at 41.
Hampton takes his damaged arm and $15 mil salary and never throws another pitch in the majors.
Chuckie is injured/ineffective for most/all of the season.
Braves’ rotation: Hudson, Jurrgens, Reyes, Bennett, Carlyle/Travis Smith/Kevin Barry/Jason Shiell/Bruce Chen/Damian Moss.
Yates & Boyer break down from overuse. None of the lefties are nearly as good as Mahay. Or even Burger King. Soriano gets about 1 save opportunity a week.
We can always hope that Pedro and El Duque’s arms fall off, O.Perez crashes and burns and their closer joins Smoltz in the market for a new elbow.
Can’t wait for the pitchers and catchers to report and start pulling hammies and blowing out rotator cuffs.
By BosnianBaller
February 1, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Any word on Will Ohman.I’m exited about B.Jones.He had real good numbers in the minors and adding muscle certainly will help him in the bigs.
By Chop Chop
February 2, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I somehow think the Mets’ rotation will end up being okay. We’ve finished third two years in a row, so any legit trash-talking is going to have to wait until after we start kicking the Mets around all damn season.
Go Braves.
By David O'Brien
February 2, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
Ohman wasn’t at camp today. Neither were the back-end-of-rotation candidates other than James.
Not sure if Jurrjens, Reyes or Bennett will be in camp. It’s totally voluntary, and winter-ball guys and some foreign guys tend not to come until the end of the camp, if they come at all.
By Ippississim
February 2, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Total 2007 starts —- BRAVES Smoltz 32 Hudson 34 Glavine 34 Hampton — James 30 Carlyle 20 Jurrjens 7 Reyes 10 Bennett 2
combined starts 169METS Santana 33 Martinez 5 Maine 32 Perez 29 Hernandez 24 Pelfrey 13
combined starts 136What does this suggest will happen at some point?
By joebrave
February 2, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Idiots!!!! Stupid Mutts fans,If I were You I would be Pi$$ed off ,about my uture,no Farm Help Left,,,,,Good Job Minnihaha!!!
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
Well, Bobby Cox has a voluntary decision to make about who will be starting in the fourth and fifth slots.
They might want to get their butts into camp since none of them showed much of anything last season. From what I have seen out of the bottom of the Braves rotation, they could all use an extra two weeks of learning.
The good pitchers: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James - all there.
The ragtag scrubs vying for that fourth and fifth spot might want to show up.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 2, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Sniper.. How do you figure the Mets pitching staff was better than the Braves last year? Braves were 3rd in theNL in ERA and allowed less total runs than the mets. Braves pitching was better than the mets last year even though Maine and O Perez turned in career years. Maine looks like he is going to be good. Solid numbers and improving. But are you betting O Perez puts up an ERA under 4.00? Or do you think he’ll post above a 5.85 and 6.5 like he did in 2005 and 2006. Perez had 2 real good years 2004 and 2007. His career ERA is 4.43, which Perez will show up in 2008, I’m betting the bad one.
GO BRAVES….
By nymets fan
February 2, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
hey p**, why would you include Carlyle in your 2008 totals? He won’t start a game for the braves this year. So when you take out his 20 starts, all of a sudden those totals look a little more even.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 2, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
My previous post wasn’t clear. In 2007 Braves were 3rd in the NL in team ERA at 4.11 Mets were 7th with a 4.26 ERA. Braves allowed 733 runs, just ahead of the Mets with 750 runs allowed.
Braves offese and Mets offense were a virtual tie last season. Braves team BA .275, Mets BA .275. A 3 way tie for 2nd in the NL with the Dodgers. Braves 3rd in the NL with 810 runs barely outscored the mets Mets who had 804.
What does all this mean…My guess is three way dogfight for the NL east title. Because the Phillies are going be tough again.
Go Braves
By jon712
February 2, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this
A Hunter Thompson tattoo?? As your attorney, I’d advise you to consume mass quantities.
I saw Hunter talk around 1980 at UGA, dark glasses, cigarette holder in his hand, and a bottle of Wild Turkey by his side. At the end, he took questions. Some high school senior engaged in a long soliloquy, wondering what he should do with his life. When the kid finished, Hunter looked at him, flicked his cigarette, and said, “You’re doomed.” A true hero in search of the American Dream.
By Ippississim
February 2, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this
nymets fan I included Carlyle because he’s still on the roster for this year, therefore, if someone goes down due to injury or if the Braves need another option for a fifth starter, he’s still there. Those weren’t projected numbers, they were 2007 totals. If one of the September callups wins the fifth spot, they’ll obviously get more starts than last year, so we’re still not in danger of running out of starting pitchers. Fact is, the Braves have 8 starters on their official depth chart, and the Mets have 6. The Braves also still have a good crop of other options in the minors if needed, whereas the Mets will probably be scrambling to buy someone at the trade deadline, when it’s a seller’s market and the pool is at its thinnest.
By uga-brave
February 2, 2008 4:01 AM | Link to this
braveheart, LEW.
seen your posts
on that other blog.
William Wallace great peace of journalism, which i am no part of.
enjoy the dark side or the stupid side but i hope you, lew, flange, chris klob. dont quit giving your wisdom or lack of wisdom here.
look i like cake, so does everybody else.
pretty much a rookie but i read everything. carolina lady i bow down. you are a sweetheart.
saw gill’s pictures and lew’s pictures.
no suprises.
lew, you are younger then i thougt you were.
okay, ATHENS boy i loved the 40 watt, i loved the uptown lounge, i loved steverinos, or sonS of ITALY .
EITHER WAY LEW, DONT QUIT FIGHTING THEM, BEcause no matter what bobby valentine IS STIIL LURKING.
‘
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 4:36 AM | Link to this
And when he confides that his shoulder is still a bit sore some days … well, I’ve got my doubts about him and that shoulder, let’s just put it that way.DOB
yeah, not good news. shoulders are scarier than elbows for the most part any more. Even at his best I don’t count on Chuckie as any more that a decent 4th starter, but I’d hate to see him have longterm injury problems that might threaten his career. Good luck to him.
By Cleanuphitter16
February 2, 2008 4:50 AM | Link to this
It’s remarkable how the addition of Santana apparently also makes Pedro a healthy Cy-Young probable again, Orlando a 200-inning machine, Perez a dependable #3, Maine a proven MLB starter, and Wagner the new “Mo” in NY. Mets added Santana…great. They had too. Without him they had no chance this season. But how does adding Santana make the Mets the immediate heir to the WS throne as most of the idiots on ESPN and CNNSI (and of course the Mets trolls here) say it does? Braves are adding Glavine and (probably) Hampton in place of last year’s #4 and #5 disasters. You can’t honestly tell me that isn’t every bit as big, from an overall win/loss standpoint, as NY actually getting one guy who can legitimately pitch against Hudson, Smoltz or Glavine (and maybe Jurrjens, if he turns out to be as good as he looks like he might be…kid can THROW) on any given day.
Ok, one day a week the Mets are now probably the best team in the NL East. But how does adding Santana make all the other issues just go away for 162 days? It’s just funny to read the “Mets vs. God, who would win now?” debates that are everywhere now because they got one pitcher (and gave up what little they had left in the minors to do it.)
Look, Santana doesn’t make Delgado hit, Pedro’s shoulder heal, Orlando young, Perez reliable, Maine proven, Schneider hit over .215, Wagner not choke at least 12 times this season, Reyes grow up, Castillo’s knees work again and steal again, etc, despite what ESPN seems to believe as they drool over this trade (as they do anytime a NY team throws the bank and all their prospects at the next free-agent-to-be all-star.)
Honestly, I’m more worried about the Phillies this year. Like the Braves, their lineup is young and very, very talented. They have depth. The Met’s are, quite frankly, old, and have no depth whatsoever. And when pieces start to break (pick an old guy…Alou? Delgado? Pedro? Orlando? Wagner? He IS pushing 37…) who do they replace them with? If you’re gonna dog on ATL for Chipper’s annual trip(s) to the DL you have to at least admit that the Met’s will probably have twice the number of DL visits this season overall than the Braves do, but ATL has depth…and LOTS of it. At EVERY position, including SP.
But, apparently, now that God has come back to earth at Shea and His left-arm will be blessing the Mets all season, all other weaknesses that existed all winter are eliminated. Crown the Mets now, why even play out the season? I mean, it’s only logical, right?
By Matt
February 2, 2008 6:03 AM | Link to this
I love how fans of a team that pulled off the biggest choke job ever in September have the stones to be so arrogant about winning the division. After that, do you REALLY think you’ll just ail to the title?? Answer this Met fans, what are YOU going to do if ANY of your big-time starters gets hurt?? You just gutted your farm system to get Santana, so your depth isn’t exactly the greatest in baseball. Braves fans should worry more about the Phillies - they won the division last year, not the chokers in NY.
By ncscoots
February 2, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this
DOB’s notes just go to show that we fans tend to forget a little factoid when we are sizing up the coming season…players change. We look at what the players were like last year when forging our analyses, and many of them AREN’T those players. Moylan with a changeup? Illegal. More upper-body strength for Frenchy? So much for the power outage. Boyer’s legs are stronger? More drop-and-drive for a power pitcher. All unaccounted for in all our blogging January theses.
We know very little about those offseason changes (and, heck, we on the blog probably know more than most), and those changes in players can and do completely change the perspective on the ability of those players to perform in the upcoming season. Heck, this year, going to his left might be KJ’s greatest defensive STRENGTH, for all we know.
So, team matchups, and roster comparisons, and all our usual folderol, well, they make for a fun blog, LOL. Looking forward to seeing enough of the actual strengths and weaknesses of the team this spring to form a reasonable opinion of their chances!
By I've Fallen And I Can't Get Up
February 2, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
Cleanuphitter16 makes some very good points. Johan will certainly help, but the central problems ailing the Mets will not go away. Aside from Jose and David who are young and blue chip, and Carlos Beltran who is very good but seldom great, let’s look at the rest of the cast. Delgado is old and in steep decline, Castillo hobbles where he once ran, Moises is 40+ and is good when he’s limited to a 300AB season, Shawn is no longer a full-time outfielder, Schneider is ok defensively, but can’t hit, Pedro will once again be the ace of the DL, Maine looks to be above average, Perez is erratic and cannot be counted on, El Duque used to baby sit for Julio Franco in the 1940’s, Billy Wagner is good but no longer dominant, and the rest of the bullpen is average on a good day. It’s easy to understand why the fans of a team that in 2007 choked like no other regular season team in history would be excited about a pitcher like Johan, but their problems from 2007 have not gone away, they’ve just gotten OLDER.
By LivininAL
February 2, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the updade! Not rushing judgement or maybe I am.. Hampton not choosing to participate makes me think hmmm..
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
You call the Mets old, overated, prone to injury ect ect. You throw out stat after stat to prove the braves are a better team. BUT, I have yet to read one brave fan post the most important stat of all, wins and losses. The Mets won 88 games last year and the braves 84. In the end isn’t that the most important stat?? So yes the Mets have holes and questions going into every season like most teams do. But this time last year there were questions too. Will Alou play 140 games? will Maine and Perez hold their own in the rotation. Will the bullpen hold up? The braves have many questions too. We proved to be better than the braves last year even with all those question. So 2008 is nothing new. We will go out there and play the games to prove the Mets are the better team……again.
By richbrave
February 2, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
Do any of you guys go onto the Mets blogs and waste their time like they do ours? If any of you regulars do please put out the e-mail addresses. Let’s show up in NY in advance and blister the bums. We’ll get our own Bronx Cheer going but from south of Brooklyn.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
All the Mets fans can chew on this. The Mets rotation has two former twenty game winners. The Braves have four. I rest my case.
By woogidy
February 2, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
nice post cleanuphitter. Keep it coming. I agree. Johan is one pitcher. This is going to be good for the Braves, because honestly, if we can’t beat him a few times this season, how are we going to beat guys like Beckett, Dice-K, Peavey, etc. in the playoffs? Plus, this makes for some great showdowns at Turner Field. Can’t wait to see Smoltz/Hudson vs. Santana, WHich we’ll more than likely see on Saturday or Sunday in Week 1.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Last year the braves had two 20 game winners. Did they win the division? Did they come in 2nd? No, they came in 3rd…..Chew on that.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Here’s something more to chew on Coach. The Rockies didn’t have any former 20 game winner and went to the world series. So I think your point is worthless.
By Overlord
February 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
OOOOOOOppppppppppsssssssss, judgement day is here, Niels Boor is here (or is it Niels Boring). Please god Niels forgive me if it aint to much to ask.
BORING !!!!!!!!!!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
sniper , thanks for that EXTREMELY narrow minded one season perspective. I really appreciate it.
By Overlord
February 2, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
If having 20 game winners is not important i wonder why the mets have signed recently PEDRO, GLAVINE, HAMPTON, SANTANA, just to mention a few. And why have they gone after every single 20 game winner there has been out the as free agent or in trading block last decade…..?????????
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
FRANK WREN , THIS IS FOR YOU.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1703885
By wiki
February 2, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
The Mets won 88 games last year and the braves 84. In the end isn’t that the most important stat??
Doesn’t mean much if the Phillies won 89 and the Rockies won 90. At least they played in October.
Who cares?
Go find a Cardinals blog and spew about how the Mets won 97 games in ‘06 and the Cards only won 83. That’ll be fun.
By jkosnett
February 2, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
I don’t get this about the Mets not having pitching depth. Aaron Heilman could be a starting pitcher again, especially if Duaner Sanchez returns, and Jorge Sosa is okay as a fill-in. That’s on top of the six starters they have, counting Mike Pelfrey, who isn’t at all proven to be a bust and is healthy. I submit the Mets’ problems are at the corner outfield positions and possibly first and second base, though Delgado on the decline is still a reasonable asset and Castillo basically needs some rest. It’s a formidable team and while that collapse was indeed epic, one of the primary villains now once again sports a Braves jersey. And let’s not forget that Santana now gets to pitch six times against Philadelphia, a left-handed hitting club. If anyone thinks the Mets won’t be fired up to beat the Phils silly in 08 after 10 straight losses last year, watch and see. I can see all three of the teams winning 90 games again.. and two of them in the playoffs.
By jkosnett
February 2, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
I don’t get this about the Mets not having pitching depth. Aaron Heilman could be a starting pitcher again, especially if Duaner Sanchez returns, and Jorge Sosa is okay as a fill-in. That’s on top of the six starters they have, counting Mike Pelfrey, who isn’t at all proven to be a bust and is healthy. I submit the Mets’ problems are at the corner outfield positions and possibly first and second base, though Delgado on the decline is still a reasonable asset and Castillo basically needs some rest. It’s a formidable team and while that collapse was indeed epic, one of the primary villains now once again sports a Braves jersey. And let’s not forget that Santana now gets to pitch six times against Philadelphia, a left-handed hitting club. If anyone thinks the Mets won’t be fired up to beat the Phils silly in 08 after 10 straight losses last year, watch and see. I can see all three of the teams winning 90 games again.. and two of them in the playoffs.
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Just wanted to clarify something about my earlier post: I understand, like DOB was saying, that JoJo, Bennett, Hampton, Jurrjens have all been working really hard all winter playing winter ball or working out or are from foreign countries, so they have probably been told there is no sense in coming in two weeks early but, IMO, they sure as hell should be there.
Hampton, James, Jurrjens, JoJo, and Bennett, IMO, hold the entire 2008 season in their hands. We know what the lineup will do. We know what Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson, Soriano, Moylan will do. The bench will figure itself out somehow (whether it is good or not).
The biggest question on the Braves are pitchers 4 through 10. It’s a little disturbing that most of them are not in camp right now.
Ugabrave, don’t worry. I ain’t going anywhere. It’s time to put aside my erratic gloom and doom outlooks from this winter. These Mets fans are ticking me off with their cluelessness.
By flange1
February 2, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Coach,
Agree totally with your 9:49. That is the type of guy the braves need even if it means dumping Thorman….
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Overlord…I never said a 20 game isn’t nice to have in your rotation. I was referring to a post by Coach which implied having former 20 game winners assures a playoff spot every year. Of course a proven successfull pitcher improves your chances.
By Shaun
February 2, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Re: Chuck James and Chad Billingsley, it’s pretty clear what I said. James had more quality starts in ‘07. Nothing more. Nothing less. Come on all you who think I was saying James is better than Billingsley. Use the brains I think you have.
By Daveinzona
February 2, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Coach @ 9:45 — You do realize that article was from 2004,don’t you.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Wiki, I was comparing the Mets and braves. 88 wins are better than 84even in your neck of the woods….isn’t it?
By woogidy
February 2, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
The delirious Mets fans think one player makes all the difference. This would be true if they hadn’t lost their one of their best starters of last season in Tom Glavine. You could line up the players and pitchers if you wanted to and say “Braves are better here”, “Mets are better there”, but this looks to be evenly matched. Smoltz or Santana? Hudson or Pedro? Glavine or Oliver Perez? Hampton or John Maine? We could go on and on. The bullpens are pretty even, though the Mets depth is a concern. Everyone seems to forget an important part of baseball is defense. The Braves BLOW away any other team in the east away in this area. Schneider is, IMO, an upgrade over Lo Duca, and Kotsay obviously a downgrade from Andruw, but everywhere else? Braves defense is top notch.
By wiki
February 2, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Wiki, I was comparing the Mets and braves. 88 wins are better than 84even in your neck of the woods….isn’t it?
Better? What did the Mets get out of that deal? A free bag of doughnuts?
They won more games, true. I want a WS championship team. I have no problem with the Mets winning 14 more games than the Braves during the season as long as the Braves are playing deeper into October. You should know that drill from two years ago…..even in your neck of the woods.
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
The problem with you Mets fans is that you have not upgraded your offense. Last year, your second baseman had a .348 OBP and a .405 SLG at second base. Do you really expect Castillo to have better than a .360 OBP and a .370 SLG? Your team is worse at second offensively.
Last year, the Mets had a .309 OBP and a .410 SLG from catcher. Do you really expect Schneider to do more than an anemic .325 OBP and .330 SLG?
Excepting his 2005 season, Carlos Delgado has been in a continuous decline throughout his thirties, finally culminating in that horrible season last year. Delgado is shot.
Wright is about as good as he is ever gonna be. Jose Reyes is the only one who you would expect to possibly get better. Everyone else is either shot or hit their peak.
The Braves have Frenchy, Escobar, McCann, Kelly Johnson, Brandon Jones, who all have upside, have not hit their primes, and are not anywhere near shot. The Braves have Tex in a contract year. The Braves have Chipper being protected for the first time since 2000 with the Big Cat by a legit cleanup hitter. Watch out!
And before you bring up Kotsay, what Kotsay is replacing is the woeful .258 OBP and .394 SLG of Scott Thorman. It will be extremely hard for Kotsay to be much worse than Thorman was last season.
The Braves scored about 5.5 runs a game after getting Tex after scoring 5 runs a game before Tex. The Braves have the potential to score about 900 runs in 2008. The Mets will be lucky to get to 800 runs.
And before you get all giddy about Santana, do you really think Santana is gonna be much better than the 42-24 the Mets were the last two seasons when Tom Glavine started for those chokers in Flushing?
By Supes
February 2, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Leave it to Mets fans to claim the division title in February…or wait, didn’t they do that last year as well? How did that workout for you Mets fans? Did you enjoy hanging your division banner from 2007?
Oh, I get it now…you have Santana…so I guess the rest of the NL east should just forfeit the division race…in the immortal words of one Dennis Green…”Do you want to go ahead and crown your asses?”
Unbelievable. I agree with the bloggers who mention the Phils as the top dog in the NL east, or the biggest threat to the Braves. Phils won the division, have tons of offensive firepower and were decimated by injuries in their starting rotation last year. If they are healthy this year, they should be the odds on favorites to win the NL east. Not the Mets or the Braves.
Braves have more depth in the starting rotation than any other team in the division. They get Gonzo back by the all star break and add a devastating lefty closer/set up man, which will be like adding a free agent midseason.
It’s going to be an exciting race…Mets fans better not hang that 2008 Division champ banner yet!
By McFann
February 2, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Sniper’s so rude, he doesn’t even capitalize BRAVES.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Daveinzona , Yes I do and I always do my homework. Greg Norton is still a good player. He is a switch hitter , plays 1B , 3B and the outfield.
His 2007 season was pretty much lost to injury : Norton, who’s contract option was declined in November, struggled in 2007, primarily due to injuries, and his numbers suffered accordingly. He had offseason surgery to repair a painful left elbow and should be good as new. Norton provides quality at-bats and can put up solid numbers when healthy. Based on his makeup, Norton should be considered more for what he did in 2006 (.296, 17 HRs, 45 RBIs) rather than for what he didn’t do in 2007 (.243, 4 HRs, 24 RBIs).
By Atown
February 2, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the insight. I can’t wait for spring training.
I’m a Cash fanatic. I don’t want to know where the tattoo is, but what kind of Cash tattoo do you have?
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Eddie Murray, Vince Coleman, Bobby Bonilla, Bret Saberhagen - THE WORST TEAM MONEY COULD BUY
It took the Mets years to recover.
Jeremy Burnitz, Roberto Alomar, Roger Cedeno, Mo Vaughn - THE WORST TEAM MONEY COULD BUY, THE SEQUEL
It took the Mets years to recover.
2008 completes the trilogy.
Congratulations!
By Dale Earnhardt
February 2, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
This might be the first time in history I have heard someone boast about winning 88 games.
Second place is just the first place loser.
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Agree totally with your 9:49. That is the type of guy the braves need even if it means dumping Thorman….flande
I guess I’m missing something. Norton is 35 and hit .243 last season with 4 homers in 200+ AB? How is that an upgrade that matters? His career is all over the place, certainly not someone that you would feel confident about producing at a high level in any given season.
By David O'Brien
February 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Ncscoots, good points at 6:40 a.m. (and again, I envy those who make good points at 6:40 a.m.)….
I shouldn’t overstate Chuck’s shoulder issue. I mean, maybe it turns out to be nothing more than typical soreness for a guy who didn’t throw all winter because he was advised not to in order to recover from the partial rotator-cuff tear he says he was diagnosed with after the season. But seems that worst-case rather than best-case scenarios unfold more often in these matters. Again, nothing to base it on so far but hunches and past examples, so wait a while before getting too concerned.
Let’s see what happens at spring training….
Jon712, I saw Hunter in a similar state 4-5 years later when he gave a lecture on campus. It was great, in a train-wreck sort of way….
Atown: his face, smoking a cig, an iconic photo taken backstage at Hammersmith Odeon, 1966.
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Based on his makeup, Norton should be considered more for what he did in 2006 (.296, 17 HRs, 45 RBIs) rather than for what he didn’t do in 2007 (.243, 4 HRs, 24 RBIs).coach
why not on what he did in 2005(nothing) 2004(almost nothing) spent most of those in the minors?. 2003 and 2002(very mediocre years even though he was hitting in Colorado b4 the humidifier? I just don’t see any reason to think that he would perform up to the one good season that he has had in the last 5 or 6 years.
By Tomahawkin' Again
February 2, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Regarding the Muts adding Santana & the biased Northeast Sports media-elite already putting them into the World Series, all I can say is to the NY trolls: if you want to crown them, then crown their a@#. The Muts are who we think they are. An over-rated, overconfidant, over-priced, no-heart team that still wears the crown of last September’s biggest pennant race choke-job in baseball history…and don’t forget the ‘06 LCS vs St. Louis. They gagged there as well. You are what we think you are: LOSERS.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
nolie , apparently you didn’t read the link I provided. Look before you leap , GENIUS.
By flange1
February 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Nolie,
My position for awhile now has been that the Braves look for a 1B and 3B sub that either can hit for power, average or is a good pinch hitter.
Guys like Aaron Boone, Ty Wigginton, Wes Helms, or Mark Sweeney are guys I am thinking off.
If Norton is recovered and can be brought to camp on a minor league deal, GO FOR IT!
I would rather have that kind of guy than Thorman, but I am not attached to any one guy, I’ll let FW make that call!
I would also like to have Anderson on the team as an extra outfielder/ pinch runner. I think Bobby could use his speed off the bench.
I
By flange1
February 2, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Hey Coach,
braveheart let me know on he other blog hat I had missed your discussions of Ryan Dreese signing by the Braves.
My bad dude! I usually read all of your posts! In fact, I read everyone’s posts!
By McFann
February 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I remember last November MLB.com proclaimed that the Mets would reach the WS and prob’ly win it. Gee wiz, I hope the bias Northeast Sports media-elite have the same kinda turnout for their prediction!!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Ryan Drese is down in Myrtle Beach. It is kind of nice to have a 31 year old right hander with 96 major league starts tucked away for a rainy day.
As for Greg Norton , he would be a nice addition to the Richmond team. I have the sneaky feeling that the Braves are going to need some more infield depth.
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
nolie , apparently you didn’t read the link I provided. Look before you leap , GENIUS.coach
obnoxious lil’ Bubba aintcha coach? Always with the mouth when someone has the nerve to not agree with you.you need to work on your self-image so you ain’t so defensive all the time. I read a 2004 (2004???FGS) link about Greg Norton. was there some invisible type there that I shoulda seen? The article is 4 years old and everything I wrote about Norton still applies, genius. Instead of the smart mouth you might actually explain what it was that I missed. the two years in the minors since then ? The home/away splits he had while in Colorado(gee I bet most of those PH came at Coors) ? the fact that he led the league 4(FOUR) years ago and has missed most of the following seasons except one? Please enlighten me. Like i said his career has been all over the map year to year, but we’re supposed to assume that he will live up to the one good year he’s had in ages? Do some more of that homework lil’ feller, cause there ain’t anything that makes questioning his current usefulness a foolish thing to do.
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
My position for awhile now has been that the Braves look for a 1B and 3B sub that either can hit for power, average or is a good pinch hitter.
Guys like Aaron Boone, Ty Wigginton, Wes Helms, or Mark Sweeney are guys I am thinking offflange
I like that idea. I have spent years saying that Thorman is never gonna make it big in the show. I simply question why we should think that Norton is the guy. If we could get him at a minor-league contract, then fine, perhaps that was my misreading of coach’s post, but he coulda just said he meant for the minors instead of spewing his usual childish crap.
By David O'Brien
February 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Mark Sweeney, who is 38 years old and hit .251 with a puny .382 slugging percentage in 2006, followed by .260 with another .382 slugging percentage in 2007? He’s an upgrade?
Greg Norton, who played a total of 12 games in the field last season (only three at 1B) and hit .243 with a homer every 50 at-bats? Who has a .252 career average and .426 career slugging percentage with twice as many strikeouts (540) as walks (270) in 2,147 at-bats while bouncing around baseball? He’s an upgrade? Over what?
Wes Helms, who hit .246 with a .297 OBP and twice as many errors (10) as homers (five) last season for Philly in 280 at-bats?
Helms, who in the past four seasons has totaled just 23 homers and 138 RBI in more than 900 at-bats? He’s an upgrade? Really?
And why are you even mentioning Ty Wigginton as possible bench help for the Braves? The man is 30 years old, just agreed to a one-year, $4.35 mill contract with Houston, and has totaled 58 doubles, 46 homers and nearly 1,100 plate appearances the past two seasons. He’s no part-time player.
By Andy
February 2, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
DOB; There is camp today right?
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
nolie , your 12:46 was retarded.
O’Brien , I don’t know about the rest of the chumps you mentioned. However , Greg Norton is depth , nothing more. We are talking about having a 35 year old veteran available down in Richmond should he be needed.
As for all you folks who put money on the Giants , don’t hurt yourselves tomorrow. The Patriots Will finish 19-0. Finishing off the greatest single season in NFL history.
By McFann
February 2, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
I’m with DOB on Norton. He doesn’t seem all that great.
OK, we know that Javy slimmed down, Francoeur’s gotten stronger—which is good—Chucky is “questionable”, Blaine Boyer’s doin’ fine, Glavine’s settled in, AJ showed up—Now, uh…what about some of the other players…
By Jeff R
February 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Managment will make a serious run at Tex, in part, because they’re so much on the hook for trading a bunch of top prospects for him. Yes, he’s a stud. No, in my humble opinion, heavy hitting first baseman don’t win championships for teams. Their added-value components. Pitching and defense are the keys.
Looking ahead to 2009, the Braves have to wonder if Glavine or Smoltz will be in the hunt. Both are over forty (as every fan knows) and arms and bodies over forty are very unpredictable instruments. Rather than spending up to $20 million per year on Tex, what about securing a top flight pitcher to anchor the rotation?
Santana…overrated? From the Mets point of view, they’ve traded up. Glavine did a good job for them, but does anyone doubt that Santana will deliver more? Certainly, the Mets have question marks, but so do the Braves. No, the Braves couldn’t afford Santana, though will his numbers be that much greater than the Braves will pay to secure Tex in a multiyear deal?
Having said all that, what the Braves did in the off-season is encouraging. If key players stay healthy and deliver up to potential, the Bravos should be vying for the division crown in September.
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
And why are you even mentioning Ty Wigginton as possible bench help for the Braves? The man is 30 years old, just agreed to a one-year, $4.35 mill contract with Houston, and has totaled 58 doubles, 46 homers and nearly 1,100 plate appearances the past two seasons. He’s no part-time player.
And Wigginton fully believes he is no part time player if I recall correctly. Wasn’t Wigginton extremely ticked off that he was marginalized when David Wright was called up? I may be recalling incorrectly on that but that’s how I remember it.
Help me out here Mets fans. Am I right on that about Wigginton? Contribute something useful to the blog. Show some actual knowledge about your team and baseball. Start with Wigginton.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 2, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Jeff R I wonder if the Mets realize they are but one arm surgery away from disaster? Pitcher just seem to be so high maintenance to me. Maybe the Mets are taking the “win it all now at all cost” path. If the contract is back loaded, they will use Santana until they go into the rebuilding mode. The trade him for prospects. That is if he stays healthy.
By Jeff R
February 2, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Add to that the fact that Wiggington did squat in Pittsburg. Waste of money.
By Atown
February 2, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOB,
That is truly an iconic image. That was at the height of his amphetamine addiction. Seeing as I wasn’t around during his heyday, it’s sometimes hard to grasp just how big an influence he was/is. Just last night Snoop Dogg on Larry King Live was going on about what an influence Cash was and how much he loved him. Very few can cross all boundries like the Man in Black.
By Jeff R
February 2, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Gil, good point. There’s a roll of the dice with pitchers these days. A lot of young guys are overworking their arms from midteens and up.
As DOB points out, the Mets are a big revenue team with bigger revenue coming (new stadium, cable deal, etc.). Santana may be a risk (I wasn’t aware that there are health concerns with him), but the Mets do have the dough to make the play and absorb the loss, if need be.
Teams like the Yankees, Mets and, if they choose, the Bosox, do have the luxury of playing a “win it all now” game. I agree that a franchise like the Braves need to be more selective due to budget limits, though I think that Liberty Media could afford more if they desired.
Glavine and Smoltz, at this point in their careers, are certainly transitional. But what does the team do without them? Who’s in the pipeline to make an impact in the next season or two? Charlie Morton perhaps? Who else? Looking ahead, the team will need an established younger pitcher to pair with Hudson to nail down the rotation, don’t you think? Does the 2009 market afford that chance for that pitcher? I know that’s a lifetime away, but the Braves used to be very good about planning ahead.
By David O'Brien
February 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Coach, agreed on Norton — he’s depth, and that’s fine. Always good to have….
Andy, there’s camp, but I’m not there (and I don’t imagine any other media members are).
This isn’t something we’ll attend every day and report on, since it’s just too informal and unstructured and since we’ll be going full-bore in another, what, 10 or 11 days?
Carroll’s going out there Monday, I believe, and will write something. I’ll probably go out once more, Tuesday maybe, if Smoltz is gonna be there. I’m almost certain there won’t be any workout tomorrow (Sunday).
By Patrick
February 2, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Santana is a plus..I agree but only every 5 starts , same can be said for Glavine.Braves have depth in in areas that really lacked last year. Our youth has seasoned and we have the benefit of 3 solid veterans that can help mold the rotation for years to come. Imagine Huddy performing like he did when he was with the A’s…he might just do it this year. He can concentrate on his job not the lack of his pitching comrades.
Starting the year with Texeria makes up a large gap from last year..this will be fun to watch. I truly don’t understand the dings on Chipper..when in the line-up he produces he rarely had a slump when he returned from the DL or get this just before he would go on he DL. After missing time he still was inthe running for the batting title..what more can a man do? Andrew played just about every game last season and didn’t come close. Renteria I think will be the most missed Brave of all that have departed. Yunel will be exciting to watch and he may be the spark plug given everyday play that Furcal was.
I agree with those that say the Phillies will be the team to lok out for. They did it over the course of 162 games and they got hot at the end..gotta love that. Don’t count out the Marlins completely..they play well enough each year to shut down prime teams in the east early in the season. They are young and they are eager to play. Heart and motivation seem to go a long way down there. As for the Nationals….the place where former Braves go to die. They’ll be a team that will beat you when they have no business beating you. hey’ll hrow some junk at you and next thing you know its the 9th inning. A lot like the Tampa Bay team..just good enough to beat teams they aren’t supposed to beat. Ask the Yankees about Tampa Bay.
All in all this season will be fought to the end. Expect injuries along the way and a few blown saves by everybody. No wild card from the east..it’ll come from the west. My predition: 1-Braves( less than 5 games) 2- Phillies 3- Mets 4- Marlins 5- Nationals Wild Card- Dodgers
Hows that for a blog entry?
By Overlord
February 2, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Jeff R, you just said it yourself, defense wins championships, that exactly is what TEX brings to the braves. And if you have the pitching, you need to score the runs. How many WS would the braves had won if they had a better hitting lineup when the big guns were together? Besides, we need a cleanup hitter, to have a decent one you need to spent millions and it is better if he is young, patient at the plate, good OBP and AVG for a cleanup hitter. No to mention his defense. He is the complete package, you have him and you can be sure money couldnt buy better material for cleanup and 1B. Switch hitting. Could you tell me what else could you ask for? Youve got to think about chipper also. What happens when chipper goes down? Who covers for him? TEX is sooooooooo critical for braves right now, i would say he is second to none (not even chipper) on this team.
What do braves need Santana for at this point? No sense. Maybe before they got Glavine and JJJ. Braves wont need to sign a big name pitcher till Glavine calls it a career. So priority #1 id say is TEX. After that theyll do what ever they can with the amount of money left after signing TEX.
By Jeff R
February 2, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Tex is the complete package, as you say, Overlord. But when I think defense, at least defense key to winning, I think up-the-middle. The flanks are important, but its up-the-middle that is critical.
Good point about Chipper going down. Regrettably, he probably will. Tex’s bat certainly compensates plus some.
But if there is one thing the Braves taught other clubs starting in the early 90s is that you win with pitching and defense. If I were GM for a day and had the chance to sign Tex or sign a quality younger arm, hands down, I’d sign the arm. A lot of fans make a big deal about McGriff’s contribution to the early Braves’ teams success. No doubt, but the Braves were winning before Crime Dog came on the scene, and, yes, it was with pitching, defense (and th other big factor) timely hitting. I think a lot of fans these days believe teams have to have a Murders Row line up to win. Don’t think so. You need guys who can get you a run or two in the clutch. The Pitching and “D” do the rest.
But I respect Tex’s talent and skill set. He’s solid. Jut don’t think he’s the priority.
By PostseasonBlues
February 2, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
Great, so now “Red” Tim Hudson chimes in with some comments regarding Santana. He should be more worried about himself and “Bourbon” Bobby Cox than the Mets. Why does Atlanta still have a baseball team? Empty stadium all season and then if they make the postseason we all know how that’s going to end. Enjoy!
By McFann
February 2, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Sheesh, PostseasonBlues.
By richbrave
February 2, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
GIL:
If you see this. My e-mail’s down.
By gobraves
February 2, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Something I saw on one of the rumor site. Don’t agree with all of it. What do ya’ll think?
2008 Braves Projections
C Brian McCann .313 AVG, 22 HR, 96 RBI 1B Mark Teixeira .309 AVG, 38 HR, 122 RBI 2B Kelly Johnson .266 AVG, 12 HR, 64 RBI 3B Chipper Jones .315 AVG, 24 HR, 87 RBI SS Yunel Escobar .282 AVG, 9 HR, 58 RBI LF Matt Diaz .296 AVG, 14 HR, 54 RBI CF Mark Kotsay .284 AVG, 9 HR, 56 RBI RF Jeff Francoeur .287 AVG, 25 HR, 104 RBI
SP John Smoltz 15-9 W-L, 3.55 ERA, 186 K SP Tim Hudson 18-8 W-L, 3.39 ERA, 143 K SP Tom Glavine 9-7 W-L, 4.42 ERA, 85 K SP Chuck James 9-12 W-L, 4.54 ERA, 117 K SP Jair Jurrjens 8-6 W-L, 4.24 ERA, 78 K
SP Mike Hampton 0-1 W-L, 7.50 ERA, 4 K
By McFann
February 2, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
gobraves—
I like it…except I think KJ will be better than Kotay, Chucky will definitely be better than 9-12, Timmy’s ERA might be a little better than 3.39, and Glavine will prob’ly have more decisions than 16.
But as for the first player you mentioned: Bring it!!
By McFann
February 2, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
Sheesh, I forgot the “s” in Kotsay.
By AdirondackDave
February 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Gobraves — McCann’s projection seems close but a little high, Tex about right, and the others are too low. The Braves position players, except for Chipper and Kotsay, are moving toward prime years. This is a strong lineup from top to bottom and I look for plenty of offense this year.
By AdirondackDave
February 2, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
Gobraves — The pitching numbers for Smoltz and Hudson seem about right but Glavine should have more wins and decisions. Chucky won’t pitch long enough to have a season that bad (9-12), if he pitches that poorly he’ll likely be out of the rotation. If Jurrjens wins a starting job, which I expect, those numbers will be reversed to something like 13-8. Hampton is the real wild-card, could be good, fair, or out of baseball if he has arm or shoulder issues. Consider anything positive from him a bonus.
By johnbama
February 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this
Frenchy .290 30 110 Tex .280 45 120 Chip .320 27 100 McCann .280 25 90 Johnson .270 25 80
Mix the rest however you want. KJ is in for a bigger year than many think
By BosnianBaller
February 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
Before any of you guys go and pay for MLB League Pass try going to google and typing in channel surfing.net i’m sure they will have every game on live when the season starts.I watch the nba league pass and EPL soccer games on there.It’s all free.
By uga-brave
February 3, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this
wow,
everybody is gone DOB, i for sure are a fan of the pimp in the the box.
DOB, i am a fan always will be.
if those bloggers want utopia let them have it.
been on her blog, lot of great people there. lew, william wallace, show up there. but they come back.
guys, lew, braveheart, clober, flange, tennpaul. please comeback, i hope you guys have a braves comment every now and then.
for me i will stick with DOB, dude you are the man.
i really like wayne in utah, braveheart, lew and all the other braves fans, would really suck if all the other fans had such of a ego to not come over here from time to time.
DOB, i know my opinion is really not that important.
but i am a fan always will be. anyways GO JAYHAWKS.
FROM A a old bulldog.
By Kev
February 3, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Bosnian Baller
IT Really works!!!!!!
By Henry
February 3, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this
Bosnianballer, thanks for the tip on channelsurfing.com. That’s the find of the year.
By BosnianBaller
February 3, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
I found it looking for the hawks-nets game since it wasn’t on tv
By BabyGoatEater
February 3, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this
Wrote this and put it on ChopChick comments. Just wondered what you guys think about the comparisons.
Santana is a great pitcher. No argument. I just don’t see where you Mut fans think your team is that much better than the Braves. Lets look at the line-ups.
1B: Delgado vs Tex—I mean come on….I know the argument “Delgado had a bad year”. Tex is 27, the sky’s the limit. If last year was any indication of this year…man…maybe 45+ with .310 and 130. Thats not a stretch if he’s healthy and hitting in a good line-up.(+1)
2B: Castillo vs Kelly—-Kelly is flat out a better hitter. Defensively Castillo’s better. Castillo isn’t that much better a fielder. Kelly is a way better hitter.(+1)
SS: Reyes vs Yunel—- OK, got us. Yunel’s no slouch though. Good arm, good contact, better than average speed. No Reyes though.(-1.5)
3B: Wright vs Chipper—- Chipper will have monster numbers when in the line-up. Arguably better than Wrights. Either way you look at it they are both the best hitters on each team and two of the best in the league. Chippers old. He’s hurt a lot. So Wrights a little better right now. (-.5)
C: Mccann vs “Whatever we can find” or Sneider or Castro—-……..uh……McCann. No more needed to say. Compared to whatever the Mets can find lurking out there, McCann’s the exact opposite. Young, great hitter, can call a game. (+1)
LF: Alou vs Our platoon—-I’ll give you a push, being generous. Alou is old and is a great player but hurting and aging. He won’t hit better than last year and he wasn’t great then. Diaz hits .300, that what the man does. Jones is very promising. But for now, or next year anyways, a push.(Even)
CF: Beltran vs Kotsay—-Betran by a lot. Kotsays older now and it’s yet to be seen what he can hit like anymore after surgery. But…..if Schaffer comes up….despite what you guys in metsland think….this kids got skills. Maybe not Beltran just yet but…maybe. For now by a lot Beltran.(-1)
RF: Francoeur vs Church/Chavez—-A gold glover with tremendous hitting, and a rocket arm. Hmmm….who to chose…..Muts average platoonish players vs a young stud outfielder. (+1)
SP1: Santana vs Smoltz——Santana is good. He’s left-handed and he strikes out everyone. Smoltz is a legend, he has already struck everyone out. He’s still one of the best pitchers in the league but Santana is probably a hair better. It’s definitely Santana but not by as much as the Must fans want to think.(-.5)
SP2:Pedro vs Hudson——Hudson is a better pitcher right now. Pedro is a quasi-legend of his own right. But he’s old and is breaking down faster at his age because of his smaller frame. Hudson will probably also do so. Not now though. Braves by a head. (+.5)
SP3: Maine vs Glavine—-Here’s the stats for them (Glavine 13-88 4.45 200.1 innings 64K 89BB)(Maine 15-10 3.91 191 innings 75K 180BB). Neither pitcher blows you away. Push, maybe muts by a hair. We’ll see. This is the part of most rotations where you never know what order to put each pitcher in because, there will always be one pitcher who out-does himself and another who under-performs. anyway, push.(Even)
SP:4-6 Braves have better quality and younger. Muts have older but more experience and proven MLB pitchers. Gotta be a push. Braves have more up-side, and that skyrocket potential (Jurrjens) so probably slightly in our favor.(+.25)
Closer: Wagner vs Soriano——Soriano is no push over. Could be dominate. Could be. Wagner is. He has the edge. (-1)
R/SU: Hielman vs Moylen—-Moylen is better. He’s getting better too. Rookie years no fluke Muts.(+1)
L/SU: Feliciano vs Gonzalez/Ohman—-Half a year of Gonzalez afetr arm surgery is enough to give Braves the edge. Add in Ohmans non-Wrigley stats and …ding ding ding, you have your winner.(+.5)
Rest of Bullpen: Push….Maybe Mets a little deeper, but Braves have good depth and (of course) better prospects. (even)
Bench: Mets have a little deeper bench so ok, like we can even start to predict bench production, they get the nod.(-.25)
thats 6.25 and -4.50 so around a .75 difference in teams.
By Runnin
February 3, 2008 5:14 AM | Link to this
You forgot a few other important factors.
Coach +2 Team character +2
By ncscoots
February 3, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this
Re whether Braves’ big money should go toward Tex or a pitcher…there’s one other under-the-radar asset that comes from a Tex signing, in addition to the usual stuff mentioned here. He can play 3B. Looking down the road to Chipper’s eventual retirement, it currently appears that the minor league system is more likely to produce a 1B (Kaaihue or Heyward) than a 3B. Having Tex on the roster would make the transition to a post-Chipper era a lot more palatable.
Braves should overpay for the guy, if need be. I think he’s that important.
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this
babygoateater, several disagreements with your comparisons of position by position. Yes, Delgado didn’t have one of his best years in 07 but his stats are still good. His career numbers warrent more respect than you’re giving him. I think that should have been even. At second, Castillo is a three time all-star and gold glover. Kelly Johnson had just 2 years of MLB experience. Batted .276 with just 9 stolen bases. He has the edge in homers but all in all the edge has to go to Castillo. In left field Alou and Chavez are better than Diaz/platoon. Lastly, you only covered the first three pitchers in the rotation. The fourth spot should be Perez vs Hampton. Until Hampton proves other due to all his health issues the nod has to go to Perez. The fifth starters should go to the Mets with El Duque. I agree with your other assessment but the one thing many here are overlooking is team speed. Reyes, Wright, Castillo, Beltran are all base stealer which will impact wins and losses………We’ll see
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
ugabrave Calm down, my man. I ain’t going anywhere. Most of my blog posts have absolutely sucked for the past month - because there is nothing going on in baseball and I have been trying to force things. So, I have been trying to post less because I am making less and less sense.
This blog is like a hit song - it goes up and down, the pace is picked up, the pace is slowed down. DOB knows the rhythym.
Having been on the blog for over a year now, things are always slow this time of the year. They pick up considerably when spring training starts, slow down later in the spring, the blog blows up on opening day, then ebbs and flows throughout the regular season, explodes again near the trading deadline getting 1000 posts everyday, stays strong through August as the Braves continue to be in it, slows down if the Braves fade away, and then picks up again as the offseason starts and all the speculation about potential moves starts, slows down again, then explodes once again during the winter meetings, then takes a much needed nap during the holidays, before resuming a leisurely pace until the start of spring training. Or at least that is my perception of it.
Many are resding DOB’s fine work but have the wisdom to know they have nothing to say at this particular moment. Unlike me, who can’t resist the urge to type and prove with 1,000 words and ten paragraphs that I had nothing to say either.
By nOLIE
February 3, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
Yes, Delgado didn’t have one of his best years in 07 but his stats are still good. His career numbers warrent more respect than you’re giving him. I think that should have been even.* Sniper*
I don’t. Delgado is old enough to worry about after last year’s drop off, but even if he bounces back Tex is a much better defensive player so the edge is still Tex.And Castillo has lots of leg problens ,… but Johnson might be questionable still since he is so new. Might be a push, but if KJ improves at all it will likely be our advantage. As for Alou/Chavez being better, the only advantage I see there is Alou has more power… if he stays healthy. Diaz has a better career BA(though in way fewer ABs) and at this point plays better D. Chavez is more proven that Jones for sure, but if Jones plays poorly then Diaz will get most of the playing time and he is better than Chavez. Pitching is a tossup over all I think, with Santana likely being the brightest star unless the second half of last season was a bad omen. If he pitches like he can, he will be a great pick-up for you guys.
By flange1
February 3, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
ugabrave,
I ma not gone either! As Braveheart says a bit earlier, their is not a whole lot going on right now. As we get closer, the pace will pick up!!!!
Thanks for remembering though!
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Although Santana is very good, he has been nowhere near as dominant as Pedro, Maddux, Randy Johnson in their primes.
Here are their ERA+ numbers in their primes:
Johan: 149. 148, 182, 155, 161, 130.
Pedro: 219, 163, 243, 291, 189, 202, 210
Maddux: 166, 171, 271, 262, 162, 189, 187
Randy Johnson: 136, 154, 192, 135, 196, 135, 186, 181, 188, 197
There is obviously no shame in not being as dominant as Maddux, Pedro, and Randy Johnson. But, then again, the dude was given a whole bunch of years and a whole bunch of millions that says they expect him to be that dominant, which he ain’t.
Johan’s dominance right now is probably most comparable to what Curt Schilling’s was earlier this decade when he had ERA+ scores of 157, 142, 159, 150. Obviously, Schilling was pretty darn dominant and was a difference maker for two World Series teams during that period of time. But that was mostly because Schilling was even more of a beast during the postseason whereas Santana has not yet been that kind of difference maker during the postseason.
But the Braves, for now, only have to worry about Santana in the regular season. His ERA+ last season was less than the ERA+ for Smoltz and just a tad better than Hudson.
Sure, I wish he was a Brave, but not at that price over all those years, and he does not make me quake in my boots.
Judging from what Tim Hudson told DOB, Santana is not making the Braves quake in their boots either.
By Murph
February 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
BabyGoatEater I will break down a Mets/Braves comparision a little easier. The Mets were four games better than the Braves last year. The Mets added the best picther in baseball and got rid of their worst starter. The Braves added the Mets worst starter and lost one of the best defensive centerfielders ever.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 3, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Correction , the Braves added a Hall of Fame lefty in Tom Glavine , added a gold glove all-star slugging first baseman in Mark Teixeira. Added depth and defense in Jair Jurrjens , Jeff Bennett , Will Ohman , Omar Infante , Josh Anderson , Chris Resop , Mark Kotsay and Jeff Ridgway. Then lets not forget the impending return of Mike Gonzalez.
Besides Johan Santana , what exactly did the Mets accomplish this past off-season ?
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
The last two season I’ve read post after post explaining why and how the braves were gonna have a better season. Stats were broken down and the pitching staff was underestimated. But in the end the Mets finished with a better record. I expect more of the same this season with Pedro, Duaner Sanchez, and Delgado playing better than exepected here on the blog and making the differnce. In 2007 the Mets had no dominant starter, no Pedro, a sub par season from Delgado, a weakend bullpen and a major collaps down the streach, They still finished better than the brave and one game from the division. Look at the Mets coming into the season and you must acknowledge that the Mets addressed needs, Pedro’s return and the addition of Santana will prove to be the reason the Mets win the NL East…..LETS GO METS!!
By wiki
February 3, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Mets addressed needs, Pedro’s return and the addition of Santana will prove to be the reason the Mets win the NL East…..LETS GO METS!!
Sounds good to me….as long as the Braves make it to the dance. It’s a crapshoot from there and wild cards have had good luck in the past!!
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
February 3, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
I think the NL East is going to be another fun race this year. I think the acquisition of Johan Santana makes many people feel the Mets are the favorites. I wouldn’t go that far. While Santana makes the Mets rotation very good, is it really that much better than the Braves or Phillies. Lord knows Moises Alou has a better chance of getting through the season healthy than El Duque does and Oliver Perez is streaky at best. Also, people forget to mention that bullpen which isn’t any better this year than last year. I think the Braves bullpen is the best of the three with the Phillies lagging way behind in that department. I still say Brad Lidge pitching in Citzens Bank is a disaster waiting to happen!
If you look at the offenses, they are all about the same. The Mets offense is about the same. Despite all the mouthing off of numbers and OPS I still don’t think Ryan Church is an upgrade in right field over Shawn Green and Lastings Milledge. We all know that Moises Alou is bound to get injured and while Endy Chavez is a good player there is a reason he has always been a fourth outfielder. And anybody who thinks Brian Schneider is an upgrade over Paul LoDuca is smoking crack. Sure, Schneider may be a better defensive catcher and is definitely less mouthy than LoDuca but are those qualities better positives than his offensive deficiencies are a negative? I say no. They will miss LoDuca’s offense and they don’t have Ramon Castro has the backup either. Yeah.
I believe the Braves have the most well balanced lineup in the National League. They are going to be dangerous from top to bottom. I think Escobar won’t make any of us forget about Edgar but he sure will make us not mention his name very often. Kelly Johnson will be that much better. I think Mark Kotsay will be fine. And, I have a feeling Brandon Jones could wind up pushing Matt Diaz out the door in a trade deadline deal. Also, I think Brent Lillibridge will see some time in centerfield and I will not be the least bit surprised if he isn’t the first option to replace Kotsay if he gets injured or is ineffective. Lillibridge will break with the team to Atlanta and I think he will stay there.
One more thing. Mark my words on this. The Washington Nationals are going to be a problem. They very well could have the best outfield in the division once the season is over. Kearns, Milledge, and Dukes has the potential of being a lethal outfield and Wily Mo Pena lurking in the wings only makes them better. They have a solid infield and their pitching staff can only get better. I think the Mets will regret that trade to the Nats because Milledge is going to make them pay and I think the addition of LoDuca will be a plus for the Nats. I’m not a fan of LoDuca’s as far as his personality goes but the guy is a gamer and he can flat out play.
Here is my problem with the Mets. If you look at the position players, the Mets only have one clear advantage over the Braves or Phils and that is in centerfield. Delgado is the third best 1B. Reyes is a great SS but is really better than Rollins or that much better than Escobar? I know Wright is God and all but he isn’t better than Chipper. Alou isn’t better than the Diaz/Jones combo for the Braves or Pat Burrell for that matter. I won’t even mention right field.
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
I must confess my thoughts aren’t totaly on the Mets right now. I don’t know if any of you noticed but my NY GIANTS are playing a superbowl today. That makes me wonder. Has Atlanta ever won a superbowl? I know they have ONE world series…..Anyway time to get ready for the superbowl party!!!
By True Braves Fan
February 3, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Isn’t it amazing how the Santana trade brought so many Mets fans out of the woodwork to start crowing!!!!
By wiki
February 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
All roads in the NL run through Arizona anyway. They have two #1 power pitchers and are, thus, set up well for a short series. Qualls’ stats indicate he is primed to be the effective closer of a deep bullpen. Almost all their offensive talent still has upside. If they get anything out of Randy, they should win 100 games.
By ncgary
February 3, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
and sniper what happened from 91 to 2006?
By ncgary
February 3, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
and sniper what happened from 91 to 2006?
By Willy Wally
February 3, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Sniper, where were you when the Mets collapsed? I only remember Anders and Metroman having the balls to pop his head up on the blog at that time.
And don’t know if you realize it or not, but most here are not Atlanta Falcons fans. Most here on the blog are a legacy of the disenfranchised TBS nation and generation.
By Tilt3
February 3, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
I don’t care what anyone says, the Mets just got immensely better. They got their biggest need, but not all of their needs, though. Regardless, they are going to make a serious run at the division title. I see the year going similar to last year. The Mets will have the lead for most of the year, but the Braves will catch up by August and never look back. I simply don’t think the Mets are a better team. They have great players, but aren’t fit for 162 games.
Just for the record, I see KJ having a huge year, too. I see him hitting .300 or better, 20 HR or more, and 80 RBI or more.
By Random
February 3, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Rrichbrave— Grow up.
*;-
By Cassette Smith
February 3, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
DOB: Just curious, how have Teixeira and Kotsay faired against Santana in the past? Infante?
By Random
February 3, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
McFann—
You go, grll!!! That’s the spirit!!!
By Random
February 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Bill: “Boycott them and get this sham of an ownership group and sell the team to someone who wants to win.”
Liberty Media has owned the Braves for less than one full free agent off-season. I’d say that it’s way to soon to say they’re unwilling to spend — only that they haven’t yet (not counting $9M-man Glavine).
Considering the slim pickings on the FA market this year, particularly among pitchers, there’s just not been that much reason for Liberty to loosen the purse-strings this year.
Plus, who do you know that Schuerholz or Wren wanted to sign, but Liberty told them ‘no’?
By Random
February 3, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
AdirondackDave: “anecdotally”*
Hahaha — you’re sweet. I like you.
By Niels Boor
February 3, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Ippississim: “Make of it what you will”
Yeah, well, learn how to format on this here blog and maybe we will.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Cassette: Teixeira is 4-for-17 with a homer and five strikeouts against Santana, Kotsay is 1-for-9 with three strikeouts, and Infante is a ghastly 0-for-16 with seven strikeouts.
Among other Braves, Chipper Jones is 3-for-4 against Santana, Matt Diaz is 5-for-9 with a homer, Brian McCann is 1-for-3 with a homer, Yunel Escobar is 1-for-3, and Kelly Johnson and Jeff Francoeur are a combined 0-for-7.
Random, Glavine wasn’t $9 mill, he was $7 mill.
And the payroll has risen from $84 mill to just over $90 mill since Liberty took over. Whether that’s a lot or a little or somewhere in-between, I guess depends on your perspective.
By True Braves Fan
February 3, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
The Rangers gave A-Rod a long term, mega bucks contract, the paid part of his salary to get the Yankees to take him off their hands. The Rockies did the same to Hampton, and paid part of his salary to get the Braves to take him off their hands. Red Sox gave Manny the big bucks, long term contract and have been unsussful in trading him….Wonder who the Mets will get to take Santana off their hands if he doesn’t pan out and they have so much of their payroll tied up in one player?????????
By Lew
February 3, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Well-Three days straight and counting and Sniper is still making moronic statements. Now Tex and DelGado are even. Whatever. That is so wrong.
By McFann
February 3, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Uh…Thanks, Random!
I’m with BabyGoatEater on BRAVES vs. Mets. And the BRAVES have much more character and better coaches (at least, a better manager.)
Yeah, OK, maybe .313/22 is a little high, but the RBIs seem good. But I think McCann’ll hit around 20 homers this year. Average…well, ya never cann tell. But in keeping with his “career pattern” (.278, .333, .270), I’d say he’s due to hit .300.
: )
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, absolutely right at 8:20 a.m. I actually kinda like this brief slow period, don’t feel obligated to get on here every hour and respond, etc.
Don’t know why uga-brave or anyone else would expect the Braves blog to be hopping on Super Bowl weekend, with spring training more than a week away, but hey, I can assure you the pace will be picking up all too soon.
By Niels Boor
February 3, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Cheap Seats— Nice insights. Thanks.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
By the way, random thoughts: Just read a recent fascinating Rolling Stone cover story on Pink Floyd and Syd Barrett (these mags pile up during the season and I don’t get to many of them until winter).
Had to put on the Wish You Were Here album midway through reading it. Great album, especially when you haven’t heart it in a long time….
Anyone see that movie “The Hunting Party” that came out last summer (I think). We watched it last night. Well worth renting. Richard Gere and Terrence Howard as two journalists, based on true story about a handful of journalists who went after a war criminal with intent of interviewing, then capturing him, five years after mess in Bosnia. CIA had other ideas.
Struck me as something that Hunter Thompson would have done.
By Niels Boor
February 3, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
N8: “Why are you guys better off than the Twins, who couldn’t get to the WS with Santana?”
Simple — Twins = bad offensive team in good offensive league, & Mets = good offensive team in bad offensive league.
Read ‘em and weep.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Sniper, Teixeira is a superior hitter to Delgado at this stage of the game (Delgado’s on downside), and their defense isn’t even remotely similar. Teixeira was a legit Gold Glover in AL (he’ll have a difficult time wresting it from D. Lee in NL); Delgado is merely serviceable defensively.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Great facts from Buster today in his blog: “Six different teams have won the World Series in the last seven years. Twenty-one of the 30 teams have played in the postseason in this decade, including all five teams from the NL West and four of the five teams from the NL East; the NL hasn’t had a repeat champion in more than a decade.”
That’s hard to believe, about no NL repeat champion in a decade. But it’s true.
Now, can anyone name the only NL teams to repeat as pennant winners since 1999? Hint: You need not look far.
Braves in ‘91-‘92, and Braves in ‘95-‘96.
That’s it.
No other NL team has repeated since Dodgers won in ‘77 and ‘78.
Three repeat NL champions in three decades.
And I don’t see the Rockies joining that group.
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
LEW, That’s my opinion. You and Miss Cleo have something in common. Neither one of you are any good at predicting sh—it. I read many of your post last year where you said the Mets wouldn’t even be at .500 and their pitching would be worthless. Why don’t I hear you say anything about that? Oh, I know. This is the year you’re finally gonna get it right…..Just shut up. All you end up doing is proving is that you let your fierce bias get in the way on honest objective thinking.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Fella sent me this e-mail, a poem he wrong in appreciation of The Hammer. I hope he won’t mind me sharing it with you.
Happy Birthday Henry Louis “Hank” Aaron
February 5, 1934
(By Stanley L. Raper)
Destiny and fate decides which millennium greatness will be born
And how high it will soar over challenges and the unforeseen that will be
Southern red clay do grown strong men who push through the dirt
To become a hero
like Hank Aaron
Alabama born Atlanta home
It was his time to pause history
Hammering at the plate
We cheer for our heroes before they are gone
While the American flag waves high in applause for them and our greatest pastime
Baseball.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
GO BIG BLUE!
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’ll give you that. I may have been off on that one. But I still think position for position the Mets have the edge. In fact a case could be made that the Mets have four of the best players at their position in the NL. Santana (pitcher) Wright (3rd) Beltran (Center) and Reyes (Short). I’ll be a great season……
By McFann
February 3, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Nice poem, DOB. Thanks!!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 3, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
O’Brien , I saw the Hunting Party a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it. Then , knowing it was based on a true story I went and did some digging. The Fox is actually Radovan Karadzic who remains at large unlike the fictional ending of the movie.
It kind of pi$$ed me off to know that the equivalent of a modern day Adolph Hitler remains free to this day in spite of a 5 million dollar bounty on his head. Our government obviously has no motivation toward capturing him.
Anyway , it is a good movie. I recommend it , politics aside.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
McFann, I didn’t write it, just posted it. But I’m sure the dude who wrote it will appreciate your thoughts.
By texmex
February 3, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
and wright is better then Chipper in what way?offense?defense?..nope! - iam sure he will be soon but you cant give him that yet
By McFann
February 3, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Oh, I know you didn’t write it, DOB, I was just thanking you for posting it. Yeah, tell the dude it was nice.
Happy B-Day to the Hammer!!
Who the heck is this “Big Blue” MetMan and Braveheart are typing about?!?!
By Braint
February 3, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Still don’t quite understand why Mets fans continue to spend their time on a Braves Blog…I just don’t get it. DOB: my Dad and Uncles grew up with Johnny Cash in Deyess, AK. They have some great stories and photos from that time. He was a true poet and good guy. (minus the drug problems which were much worse than even “Walk the Line” depicted.) Go Braves! www.gasholemovie.com
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Haven’t seen that movie yet
Sounds interesting.
Thanks for ruining the ending for me Coach.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
McFann,
New York Giants = Big Blue
By n ga bob
February 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
What is jelly-belly Jones doing at CAMP ROGERS? iS THERE NO GETTING RID OF HIM!!!!!!!!????????????
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
texmex, Wright is better than Chipper for the same reason DOB claims Texiera is better than Delgado. Plus Wright spends less time on the DL and can steal bases.
By McFann
February 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Gotcha, Braveheart. Yeah, I guess I’m pullin’ for them, too.
By BosnianBaller
February 3, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
The Hunting Party is a true story.Another movie that is good and in my mind better than the hunting party is No Man’s Land it won a oscar for best foreign film in 2001.And Welcome to Sarajevo with Woody Harrelson and Marisa Tomei.
By Lew
February 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Sniper-And yet last year, when I predicted the Mets would end sub .500-they posted a sub .500 record from the 26th of May on throughout the season. Look it up. It happened. Two thirds of the season below .500.
When I said your pitching was substandard and would go down to injury, what happened? El Duqeue missed considerable time and through the final 1/3 of the season-two full months, you’re staff posted ERA’s of-Maine 5.46, Perez 4.74, ElDuque 5.40, and Pelfrey 5.57 For the ENTIRE season. Mets’ fans constantly crowed about how they needed fear nothing-Pedro would return and lead them to the Promised Land. How exactly did that go? Were you happy with the results? Seems the only thing I was wrong about was that they got off to a torrid start. Otherwise, the Mets would have ended exactly where I predicted-third. For crying out loud, the Nats and Marlins owned you in September.
You lost a pitcher, that no matter how much you like him or revile him, over the past three seasons, posted AVERAGE numbers of 14-9 with a 4.21 ERA and averaged 203 innings pitched. You replaced him with one of the greats-no doubt whatsoever and anyone who declares otherwise is an even bigger idiot that you are. His average numbers for the three years are 17-9 with an ERA of 2.99 (absolutely incredible) and an average number of innings pitched of 229. Yes, you upgraded over Glavine. Absolutely. Positively. No question whatsoever. But in the long run you upgraded a total of 3 victories average per year. Enough to get you to the playoffs last year, but you are not better this year like you seem to think.
The Braves, on the other hand, ARE improved. They were 20 games over .500 last year when Smoltz, Hudson, James and Carlyle pitched. They were 15 games UNDER .500 when the fifth guy pitched. So they went out and upgraded by grabbing Glavine and getting a couple other younger guys with much more potential than was ever shown by the likes of Redman and Lerew. We still have a much better overall bullpen than the Mets. We have a much deeper rotation than the Mets. We have more depth in the infield and outfield in case we have injury problems.
The Mets will DEFINITELY have injury problems because Alou, DelGad, Beltran, ElDuque, Pedro and Castillo have HAD injury problems. That is another fact. Can you envision an outfield of Endy Chavez, Marlon Anderson and Ryan Church? A very real possibility. Remember that last year both Moises and Beltran were DLed at the same time?
Sorry Dude, I keep telling you as well that the Phillies actually beat you out last year and have improved themselves as well. They now quite possibly have the best infield of all three of our teams. You ignore them completely and naively expect Pedro to win more games and pitch more innings than he did in the last two years combined-after surgery- and then tell us that DelGado is as good as Teixeira? Dude. You are clueless. But, then again, everyone here but you recognizes that for the fact it is. Wallow in your delusion. It’s all your choice.
By BosnianBaller
February 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
The deal with the hunting party(in real life) for those of you who saw it was that the U.S. was the only country to help out but ending the war meant that the “Fox” would not be captured at any time in the future.
Anyway anybody see that Dom.Rep v mexico game yesterday
By Roman Gal
February 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Sniper, I wouldn’t say that Wright is better than Chipper…or that Chipper is better than Wright. They are about even.
A while back DOB posted a thing that showed what Chippers numbers over a 162 game period were. They were…unreal. Granted, Chipper doesn’t steal the bases and he doesn’t play in as many games anymore. That’s why (in my opinion) they are about equal. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be as close.
Also, I don’t know how much David Wright means to the Mets (I quite frankly don’t care), but Chipper Jones is the driving force for the Braves. When he isn’t in the lineup the Braves suffer…badly. It’s hard to argue who is the better player when Chipper means SO much to the Braves.
By BabyGoatEater
February 3, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the comments Mcfann and Sniper.
-Sniper-
Gotta disagree with you on Delgado. Although I will give you that the one place I might have underestimated is SP1. Not that I think Santana is that much better (how can you be), but I guess I can concede that Smoltz can break down.
Anyways, just predictions.
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
I guess your season has less than 162 games in it. In your world you could pick and choose which parts of the season validate your point and then you throw out the rest. In my world the baseball season is 162 games. After those 162 games the Mets had a better record than your braves. I think MLB bases their season the same way…..Go check.
By SNIPER-69
February 3, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
LEW, I’m gonna make this as simple for you as possible. I’m a realist. I am aware that injuies and setbacks are part of the game. But no matter was injuries and setbacks my team goes through I still expect them to play winning baseball for 162 games. You can write til you suffer writers cramp about injuries to players. At the end of 162 games in 2007 The Mets were better than the braves……that’s it, nothing more. If you’re using a different scorecard from the rest of us, I can’t help you…..no one can.
By Overlord
February 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
SNIPER69 you must be crazy to put wright in the same category as chipper. Sure he has started really good. But he still has tons of things to prove. There is an endless list of players with less than 5 years under their belts that start their careers looking like HOFers and they just go down like a wounded deer. Sure he looks promising. but chipper has 4 times the amount of anything you want to mention HR, Hits, RBI, walks, Total bases, etc. I suppose you know what that means. Chipper is approaching 400 HR milestone, meanwhile wright still is looking for 100. There a biiiigggggggg gap between them. If your point was made to address the production of them in the present, i still would take chipper because he has tons more of experience, patience at the plate and defense. BTW chipper has never hit 100kkkkk NEVER. On the other hand Wright has done it every full season he has been in NY. 20 more K in average than chipper per season. So your kid has thing to polish before being put up with chipper. Good luck.
By Overlord
February 3, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
If mets were better than the braves…….how come the had a losing record against us in 2007……? Guess they just let us win just for the heck of it.
By mo in the boonies
February 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Well Uga didn’t mention me, but I’m not going any where either. I came here to find out about Brave’s doings, cause I figure this is the best place to find out. I could go to any number of other blogs for fun and games, if that was what I’m looking for… but not looking for fun and games, just baseball. And Braveheart is right, some of us are here reading everyday, just don’t have anything to contribute right now.
Robert(CITB) I agree that the Nationals are hiding in the bushes…and the Braves better be prepared.
By brian
February 3, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
anybody want to make the call here that the Giants are going to win tonight?
Getting Santana was huge for the Mets but one man does not make a rotation. They have a lot of ifs. If Pedro comes back healthy. If John Maine can keep developing. If Olivier Perez can show that last year was not a fluke. If the Mets can find a first starter.
The Braves 1-3 are set. The only if is injury. The Braves have a big IF in Hampton but since the Braves are counting on zero from him, anything is a bonus. 5th starter is an if but I will gladly take our options over the Mets. Chuck James, JoJo, and Jair are all solid #4 or #5 options with the only if being James’s shoulder.
By McFann
February 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
No prob, BGE. I think even most Mets fans would agree that McCann is better than their little group, but Schneider is pretty good at throwin’ guys out on the bases. (31% in 2007 to McCann’s 21%)
By metsfan
February 3, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Get your facts right Overlord, the Mets went 9-9 against the Braves in 07
By Overlord
February 3, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
I also agree…..everybody is talking about top 3, but nats played really good against braves last year and against mets i think they did well also, not sure. They got better. And Marlins……..they have a good hitting team even with Cabrera gone. So this aint gonna be an easy ride for anyone.
By Overlord
February 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
By the way i read you friends from NY post i thought it was like 16 out of 18…… Cause you mets were so much better. I can recall braves were 8-4 1st 4 series between the 2…. how could that be if the mets were so much better than the braves??????
By TennesseePaul
February 3, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
The Teixeira deal will be interesting. I suppose, in a way, it is like getting the Maddux/Bonds choice again. JS went with the pitcher. It appears Wren is going for the hitter. But I don’t think he’ll win the bidding.
I read Bowman’s description of James. That didn’t sound all that promising. It sounded like a mid season surgery in the waiting. If Hampton is useless this year it will pretty much be back to 06/07 level of backend starting. This team has a lot of ifs. If the majority of those coin flips lands heads down this team will struggle to keep 3rd. But, if they get a 50/50 split or better on these things it should make for an entertaining season.
By Random
February 3, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
N8: “Hampton (who has about as much chance at pitching 150+ innings as Pedro does)”
Actually, Hampton probably has less than a 10% chance of pitching 150 innings as does Martinez.
Please recall that Martinez pitched 28 innings in Sep last year, with a 3-1 record, whereas Hampton hasn’t pitched a single inning since Noah felt the first drop.
By GermanBravesFan
February 3, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
I don’t know what others think, but I find it quite amusing that, after winning ONE NL East title and one second-place finish, fans from a certain team in the Northeast come crawling out of their holes they had been hiding in for almost FIFTEEN (!) years and run their mouths. Must be a New York attitude. All I can do is laugh… or feel sorry. How bad must the pain have been for those fans and how much envy has accumulated during those one-and-a-half DECADES of misery… I pity you, Mets fans…
By metsfan
February 3, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Nah,I was just addressing A false statement that was made about the Mets having A losing record vs the Braves in 07
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 3, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
If I didn’t know better, I would swear most of you are members of the Virginia General Assembly. You folks are so rooted in the past that you cannot see the present.
The stars of tomorrow are not the same folks who were the stars of yesterday. Last season is gone, it is a new dawn and none of us can predict the outcome of tomorrow. It is all wishful thinking on some folks part.
Take the Giants and the points…..
By Overlord
February 3, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
OK metsfan i was wrong, you were right. TPaul what were you saying about James “surgery in the waiting”, i missed that, but im not surprised at all. I lost faith in that guy. I hope braves put him in the bullpen as until he really develops.
By Bryan
February 3, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan, as a long time braves fan, i can attest to the fact that every year during those years of last place finishes and 20+ back in the standings Mets fan’s ran their mouths all the time! Its not a new thing - it just sucks that their team has started winning …
By Alan
February 3, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
DOB, I rented “The Hunting Party” last weekend, and I agree with you - very entertaining. I’ve always been a big fan of Richard Gere - all the way back to “Looking for Mr. Goodbar” with Diane Keaton. Also, last night I saw “There Will Be Blood” and liked it - Daniel Day Lewis is amazing - and he’s in every single scene. Now I’ve seen all 5 best-picture nominees and my favorite remains “Michael Clayton.” I know it won’t win the Oscar; I think it deserves it, though, based on terrific performances by the entire cast. Prediction for tonight’s game: It’ll be a yawner. Pats will win by 17, at least.
By McFann
February 3, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Ratatouille deserves best picture.
End of story.
By N8
February 3, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Random
“Actually, Hampton probably has less than a 10% chance of pitching 150 innings as does Martinez.”
Whatever, dude. It was a joke. What in the hell does pitching 28 innings LAST september have to do with Pedro being able to go 150 innings THIS YEAR??
Chipper played in 24 games last September, with 105 plate appearances. Does THAT have anything to do with what he’ll be able to do this year?
Jeff Bennett hadn’t pitched since 2004, and came up last September and made 3 appearances (2 starts), pitching 13 innings, going 2-1, with a 3.46 ERA. Does that mean if he makes 35 starts this year, we can pro-rate it and pencil him in for a 15-8 season and about 175 innings?
Surely, since we’re basing 2008 off of last September’s numbers, you don’t need me to point out how WORRIED you should be with your latest acquisition, do you? (For the record, Johan Santana pitched 31 innings last September, going 1-3, with a 4.94 ERA.) Yikes!
The way I see it, NEITHER of them have done it over the past two seasons, so I’m not so sure how you would “statistically” break-that down.
But I tell you what, if you actually have a way that has been proven accurate (give or take a few innings), please do tell.
By TNRON
February 3, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
Someone help me out here.Is Peachtree TV available only in Atlanta?Or can you subscribe somehow.MLBTV isnt an answer where I live because it is within 250 miles of Atlanta.I hate not seeing those 45 games.
By Curt
February 3, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
DOB
Just wanted to let you know that I will be seeing Band of Horses this wednesday at an intimate little venue here in Birmingham all thanks to you turning me on to them. I love their stuff and cannot wait to see them live!
Also, my Dad, brother, and myself are planning a trip down to see some spring training games from the 17th of March to around the 21st, is there a central location you recommend staying so we can go to some Braves games as well as a few others?
By McFann
February 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
It really sinks that the Mets started winning. I mean it really stinks that they started winning.
I feel bad for those out-of-town fans who’ll miss so many games ‘cause dumb ol’ TBS ditched the Braves. I hate that channel.
By BosnianBaller
February 3, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Like I said earlier in the blog TNRON. Before any of you guys go and pay for MLB League Pass try going to google and typing in channel surfing.net i’m sure they will have every game on live when the season starts.I watch the nba league pass and EPL soccer games on there.It’s all free.
By richbrave
February 3, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
GIL:
My e-mail’s down. Tell me where and when for lunch next week.
By Lew
February 3, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
Sniper-Yes, you did expect them to have winning record over 162 games, but over two thirds of the season they did not. That’s a fact-in as simple talk as someone from Jersey City could possibly understand. You act like I’m making it up. Go check it out. The Mets got off to almost as hot a start as any team I’ve ever seen. However, they could not and did not sustain it.
You keep telling me I’m wrong about the injuries. I’m not. Would you like me to go look up exactly how many games all these aged stalwarts you’re counting on actually missed? I’ll be glad to do it if you’re incapable. Ask any Braves’ fans about the expectations from a pitcher coming back after missing more than a full season. Does the name Hampton mean anthing to you?
Your expectations are totally unrealistic. You have not improved your offense or your team in general. Those positions you have replaced you got weaker in the offensive categories. Do you want me to point out exactly by how much? The Braves and Phillies, on the other hand have actually addressed the areas they needed to address. The Mets addressed the replacement of ONE player. A good one, no doubt, but only one and the upgrade is not as big as you seem to think.
It’s not just me saying this. I was listening to XM Home Plate all yesterday afternoon while out shopping. One PHILLIES’ fan came on and asked why the Mets thought, with the addition of Santana, they thought that now they would win 110 games. He then pointed out all the same weaknesses I’ve told you about. He also mentioned how both the Phillies and Braves had improved. Dude, you are in the minority. No one but Mets’ fans and the New York friendly media think you will have what it takes. No one will run away with the division, but the Mets will not win it.
Like I said before-Enjoy your delusional outlook. You’re welcome to it. But coming here and trying time and again, ad nauseum, to convince us that the Mets are that good just isn’t going to work. Maybe in doing so, you will be able to convince yourself they are not the team that played from May 26 onward, tanking in spectacular fashion. Keep trying to convince yourself though it is essentially the same, aged team, only a year older and more injury prone. It’s really quite pitiful when all you can say in your defense is that you had a better record than the Braves. We’re so happy for you. Where’s your little flag to hang on your barren outfield walls? Oh wait. One and out. No dynasty in your Mets’ uniforms, is there? Don’t worry. You don’t need to answer that. We already know the response.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Awesome job by Tom Petty.
And this just in: Steve Smith sucks! Really sucks! Sucks real bad!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 3, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
richbrave let me check with the boss. I know I am booked through Wednesday. Going to the hockey game Wednesday night too. I should know by tomorrow.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
Petty and the band were outstanding. That’s two years in a row the Super Bowl has come up big with its halftime entertainment (Prince last year)….
Curt, I still haven’t seen Band of Horses live. I’m sure it’ll be a cool show. As for accomodations at Orlando, if you want to stay at a decent place that’s not too pricey but doesn’t have paper strips around the toilet to let you know it’s been sanitized, I’d recomment the Marriott Village two exits down I-4 (toward Orlando) from the ballpark. They have Marriott Courtyard, a Fairfield Inn and one other Marriott owned property there.
If you just want to stay somewhere cheap, any of the hotel/motels on 192 near I-4 would put you within 15-20 minutes of Astros park, 10 minutes or less from Braves, and 30-40 minutes from Tigertown at Lakeland.
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Alan, yes Michael Clayton was outstanding. And I’d say it would’ve been Best Picture in a lot of years, but not this one. To me, No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood were a little better.
By TNRON
February 3, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks BosnianBaller.i will try it.
By McFann
February 3, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
YEEEEEEEAAAHHHH!!!!!!
Felt kinda weird rooting for a team that wears the letters “NY”, but
YEEEEEEEAAAHHHH!!!!!!
By David O'Brien
February 3, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Now THAT was entertaining. Awesome performance down the stretch by the other Manning and especially by that defense.
Is there a safer bet in sports than going against the grain when 99 percent of the so-called experts agree on something?
I mean, seriously. It happens again, and again, and again. When there’s a favorite so overwhelming as the Patriots, it just seems more often than not, it goes the other way.
I love it. Love to see the underdog prevail like that. And love to see ESPN have to put away all its non-stop blather about the Greatest Team Ever. Just like that, that argument is not even on the table anymore. Can’t be the Greatest Team Ever if you don’t win the championship.
I’ve always thought one of the late-70s Steelers title teams would have to be the greatest team I’ve ever seen, or will ever see.
Even if these Patriots had won tonight, and been crowned Greatest Ever by most folks, I still wouldn’t have agreed. They would’ve lost to Baltimore if not for the fourth-down timeout, and should’ve lost at least one other game. And down the stretch they just didn’t strike me as a Greatest Team Ever.
Now we don’t have to concern ourselves with that debate. Well, it’s still a debate as to which was best team ever, but these Patriots are no longer one of the choices. Gotta win the championship game. Just the way it is.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
BIG BLUE!
Eli to Tyree! Unbelievable play at both ends.
Boss becomes Bavaro.
Plax!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 3, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
What total nonsense. This stuper bowl reminds me once again why I’m not a fan of pro football. The Giants got a gift , the officials gave them three time outs in addition to the three they already had on that last drive giving them the extra time they needed to score.
When the officials refuse to call penalties during the final quarter of the biggest football game of the season and yet repeatedly stop the clock , it really make me wonder as to the legitimacy of pro football.
The Giants won , but not without some obvious help from the zebra’s.
I saw repeated late hits on Tom Brady all game long which would be penalties during any other game except this one. Not a single roughing the passer penalty was called all game long.
I’m not a fan of the Patriots or even pro football , but this game wasn’t clean , not by a long shot.
Congratulations to the Giants and a big thumbs down to the officiating.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
DOB, there is no way in hell the Patriots could have been the greatest team ever when they got beat by a Giants team that would have been crushed by the 1986 Giants.
And I was just kidding about the Boss becomes Bavaro thing. There is no other Bavaro. But it is cool to see a youngster honor the Bavaro legacy by making a great play while wearing Bavaro’s number.
By brian
February 3, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
way to go Eli!
Could not have beaten a better team. New England had to feel like Duke - there was no in between - love them or hate them, but never ignored.
Belicheck and most of the Patriots should have hung around until the game actually ended and then congratulated the Giants. Another classy move by Bill and the Pats.
By Braveheart
February 3, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
Coach, yeah, so, according to you, the conspiracy was in?
With the chance to have a marketing wet dream with the so-called greatest team ever with the so-called greatest QB ever with the so-called greatest coach ever, the NFL ordered the refs to let the Giants win?
Whatever, dude. Get a clue.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 3, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Conspiracy ? You want a conspiracy…I’ll give you one. Remember the phantom penalty in the end zone called against the Patriots during last seasons AFC championship giving the Colts a first down on the one yard line. The Colts then scored and won the game , two weeks later…. the NFL admitted there was no penalty.
I just wanted to see the same set of rules called in the Super bowl that were called during the regular season.
The Giants were allowed to play an all out physical game , continually pounding Tom Brady with late hits. And yes , I taped the game. I’ll watch it again and count up all the late hits.
I have no Axe to grind as to who was or wasn’t the better team. The officiating clearly favored the Giants physical style of play or I should say , the lack of officiating.
Braveheart , your usual inability to do anything other than make personal attacks against people with differing opinions again shows your complete lack of intellect.
By TennesseePaul
February 3, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Sheeeeeeeesh! What a game. Been a while since a Superbowl game had any enjoyment in it. Though I did really appreciate last seasons… which brings me to this. I don’t know if anyone here knows the answer but, when, if ever, was the last time brothers won back to back Superbowls? The Mannings. Payton was a UT man and now his little brother has a ring as well. Not a bad day. And they stopped a Boston team. So it is possible.
By DAP
February 3, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
i live in augusta and dont get peachtree tv. does that mean ill miss those 45 games?? seriously? how can i not get all the braves game and live so close to atl?? does anyone know if i will really not get those games?
By richbrave
February 3, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
GIL:
Roger that.
By doc
February 3, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
david, pink floyd often is overlooked as one of the greats when discussed. for what it is worth, richard wright pianist and one of the major contributors of music of pink floyd is seriously ill. thoughts and prayers are appropriate.
By richbrave
February 3, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
TP:
Good post. Dam- shame it had to be the Giants. But now Snyder can go after the defensive coach with conviction, and 10 million $.
The person I feel best for is Archie Manning. What a wonderful player all those years with those awful Saints teams. The former bag-wearing Aint’s fans should feel a good measure of satisfaction as well.
By SNIPER-69
February 4, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
**Giants, superbowl champs today, METS world series champs tomorrow!!! New york celebrate a number one victory again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By BabyGoatEater
February 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this
Sniper-
Could you do a comparison of the Braves and Mets line-ups. Put what you actually feel about the teams. I’d be interested what you really think without the best case circumstances.
Lew- I know you’ve said before but, what is your outlook for the Braves this season? Do you believe that the Phillies are a better team?
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
Coach, really, that’s ridiculous.
So Tom Brady got knocked around a bit, like every other quarterback did all season. Whaaa. Or however you prefer to spell the sound of crying.
Let me know when someone a little more impartial than you offers the opinion you just did about the supposed assistance from the officials. Because so far, you’re the only one I’ve heard even hint at such a thing.
You’ve got some interesting lenses you’re viewing things through, Coach.
By Lew
February 4, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Baby Goat Eater-I think the Braves have a better pitching staff overall, both rotation and bullpen than the Phillies. They better hope Hamels can stay healthy and Brett Myers has a good year. Eaton and Moyer are highly questionable and the other guy Kendrick (?) is questionable, as he is so young with zero track record. Lidge is still a big question mark. Can he come back to 05 form and be a successful closer? Can the rest of the pen remain healthy?
The Phillies may have the best offense in the NL, even with the loss of Rowand. Feliz was a great acquisition for them. He may not hit for average, but I can easily see him hitting 25-30 HR in that Little League stadium-a definite upgrade over Wes Helms.
I think the Braves and Phillies will fight until the end for the division. The other will only win a Wild Card if things do not go as expected in the West. There are several good teams out there. Each has it’s own questions, but are capable of taking their division.
The Mets will stay in the chase only if they can avoid injuries to half of their team. I know Sniper thinks they can, but I just don’t see it-their track record is not indicative of them staying healthy. If Pedro, ElDuque and Alou do not play much more than last year, the Mets are doomed. Sniper better be right about DelGado’s 07 season being an aberration, as well. If it was not and was indicative of his career to come, they will finish way behind the Phillies and Braves. Beltran, Wright, Reyes and Santana are top notch, but can’t carry the entire team for an entire season. They must have healthy players and a supporting cast. I know Sniper does not believe this or want to hear it, but that’s the way it looks to me and to many others.
Conspiracy or no, that catch by Tyree was nothing short of unbelievable-especially after Manning got out of that sack, which looked virtually impossible. There is a very visable Police presence throughout New England this evening. Glad I hadn’t planned to go anywhere.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
February 4, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this
I taped the game. I’ll watch it again and count up all the late hits.
Or you could just get a life instead.
By Nolie
February 4, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this
Ratatouille deserves best picture.
End of story.McFann
Well it will likely win Best Animated Movie, is that ok?
By Mets-a-tized!
February 4, 2008 4:03 AM | Link to this
DOB —
Is it out of modesty that you neglected to mention your Chipper Jones tattoo?
By Random
February 4, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
That picture of Hudson (“First Pitch”) on the AJC Braves web page — is that his belly, or just a flesh colored undershirt?
If the former, we’re seeing some serious folds of flab flapping around! I thought he was supposed to be a wee tiny dude.
DOB: “Random, Glavine wasn’t $9 mill, he was $7 mill.”
Okay — my mistake.
By Niels Boor
February 4, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Overlord (February 2, 2008 9:42 AM): *”OOOOOOOppppppppppsssssssss, judgement day is here, Niels Boor is here (or is it Niels Boring). Please god Niels forgive me if it aint to much to ask.”
Hey, I didn’t even show up on this blog ‘til the afternoon of the third — what are you even talking about?
In my previous comment on your post (last blog), I meant simply to point out that you were misunderestimating the impact of Santana moving from a lousy offensive team in a good offensive league to a good offensive team in a lousy offensive league. That’s a double whammy in my book.
Plus, I’ve been given to understand that Shea Stadium is a “pitcher’s Park”. Whaddaya got to say about that?
By Random
February 4, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
N8: “Whatever, dude. It was a joke.”
A joke, huh? Oh, okay — I get it. Ha ha?
“What in the hell does pitching 28 innings LAST september have to do with Pedro being able to go 150 innings THIS YEAR??”
After rehabbing during the 2006 season, Martinez pitches 28 innings in one month.
Is it unreasonable to think that after continued rehab and treatment during the offseason he may be able to pitch 28 or so innings for five of the 6 months of 2007 (barring unforseen injury)? That’s about 150 innings.
This with a history of pitching — when healthy — close to or over 200 innings in 10 of his previous 14 full seasons. Does Bennett have that kind of track record? Are you really pretending to equate Bennett with Martinez?
“Chipper played in 24 games last September, with 105 plate appearances. Does THAT have anything to do with what he’ll be able to do this year?”
Yes, actually, it does. (Right, Shaun?) It’s not unreasonable to expect at least 144 games and 630 plate appearances, barring unforeseen injury. He’s done it in 8 of 13 previous seasons, and come close another 3 times. Only twice has he fallen far short of that figure.
“your latest acquisition [Santana]” — hey, hey, hey, jerk — you take that back! I’m a Braves fan, and have been since ‘69. Don’t go all holier-than-thou on me.
“The way I see it, NEITHER of them have done it over the past two seasons”
Then you’re simply not looking — Martinez came back from injury last season, and Hampton hasn’t come back even yet.
“But I tell you what, if you actually have a way that has been proven accurate (give or take a few innings), please do tell.”
No need to be a prick — it’s all just simple math and reasonable extrapolation from history.
By ncscoots
February 4, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Less a Super Bowl “conspiracy” than the spirits of the ‘72 Dolphins hovering over the field, methinks. A little metaphysical intervention is as likely a cause as zebras’ mindsets, I’d say.
The last time this kind of thing occurred (a team with a realistic chance to go unbeaten), Dan Marino carved up the Bears. A team overwhelmingly superior to his own was picked up by the neck, whipped senseless, and its bloody carcass spat on, in one of the finest individual displays of competitive drive in a team sport I’ve ever witnessed.
But you still need good karma for those types of outcomes, and last night was just more of the same. Scoff, if you must, but the “72 Dolphins Theory” is my story, and I’m stickin’ to it, LOL.
And bookies everywhere, today, are buying condos in the Caymans :-).
By AdirondackDave
February 4, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Coach — I’m a baseball fan, football doesn’t do anything for me but I watched the super bowl because me son and grandson were at the game. You’re right about the officiating. It stunk. Not saying it was a conspiracy but time after time Brady was battered after the throw and a couple times in the last quarter some bruiser obviously went for his head AFTER the hit. Couldn’t believe personal fouls weren’t called and I couldn’t care less who won or lost the game but the Giants got virtually every break possible. Yup, that was an incredible catch by what’shisname.
By Fix the Pen
February 4, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
I think the thing that many of us are taking for granted is the bullpen. The rotation may be more consistant this season, but the bullpen has taken major steps in the wrong direction. I know the answer is not found in signing a buch of guys like linebrink and dotel to stupid money deals, but having one known quantity behind soriano (who can be streaky) would be nice. I think that we are going to lose alot of ground on the mets and phillies this year because our bullpen can’t hold a lead. This has been a problem the last several years, and I think we enter the spring with more ?’s in the pen than I can remember in years past.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Random, I can assure you that Tim Hudson is as lean and fit as ever. Couple of folks commented on precisely that at pitching camp — dude shows up for first day, with the same ridiculously low body fat and throwing most or all of is pitches like he’s been on the mound all winter.
If you had seen Hudson Friday, you’d laugh at the mere suggestion he’d put on weight.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Mets-a-tized, is it out of “modesty”? Come on, you can find a better word for your witty line than that, can’t you? “Modesty” doesn’t make much sense in that context. Try again. Use a thesaurus, if necessary.
By Niels Boor
February 4, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
nymets fan: “hey p____, why would you include Carlyle in your 2008 totals? He won’t start a game for the braves this year.
Because whoever takes his place will be as good or (more likely) better than him. Duh!!!
By Braveheart
February 4, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
The point of people who include Carlyle in their posts, is that the Braves were 11-9 when Buddy Carlyle started last season with an ERA around 5.00 on a team that scored 5 runs a game.
Before Buddy, the Braves were 6-4 in the starts of Kyle Davies until June 1st when Davies had an ERA hovering around 5.00.
Combined for the season, since Carlyle essentially replaced Davies after June 1st, the Braves were 17-13 when they started out of the 4 spot in the rotation with an ERA hovering around 5.00 on a team that scored 5 runs a game and had a bullpen with an ERA of 4.00 and lower.
So, the point of those posters I think is that Jurrjens, JoJo, Hampton have to merely keep an ERA of 5.00 or hopefully lower on a team that scores 5 runs a game and has a bullpen with an ERA around 4.00 or lower for the Braves to win the majority of their starts.
The Braves hope they are better than Buddy but Buddy is just their way of saying what the 2008 bottom of the rotation pitchers can do if they perform similar to what Buddy did last season.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
fix the pen I think we enter the spring with more ?’s in the pen than I can remember in years past.
are you serious dude? it isnt recent history when we had an absolute freddie kruger nightmare in our bullpen.
remember ‘05 when we had dan kolb closing? reitsma was out set up guy and joh foster was our lefty. we also had a bunch of rookies, like mcbride, boyer… THAT was a questionable bullpen.
and ‘06 was even worse. we had chris reitsa CLOSING!!! mike remlinger made a comeback, and ken ray was our corner stone! oscar villareal was actually a bright spot in that ‘pen.
in ‘07, we all felt pretty good about our ‘pen. a couple of proven closers, and many other very experienced arms.
in ‘08 weve got moylan coming off an amazing rookie year, soriano, who has everything it takes to be an awesome closer, yates, who is next to unhittable when he is used right, acosta, who has absolutely nasty stuff, a decent lefty to turn to, and a stud expected to return mid season in gonzalez. the only thing i can think of that we need is for gonzalez to be back NOW. other than that, i feel really good about this bullpen. there are definitely less questions about it than in ‘05 or ‘06.
By MetsPussycat
February 4, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
“— Oh, one more thing about Johan: Before I forget, how many out there in Braves Nation still think the Braves should or could have traded for Santana?
Great pitcher, but in my view the price tag is simply too enormous for any team that doesn’t have the deep revenue streams that come with things like a new, Citibank-sponsored ballpark, a huge market, and your own cable network.
But unless the price tag goes over $20 mill a year for Mark Teixeira, I can already hear Braves fans howling about the team’s mistake if they don’t sign him. And on that one, I’ll probably be in agreement with the fans.
Need to get it done.”
Great points DOB!
LETS GO METS! GO BIG BLUE!
By Braveheart
February 4, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Fix the pen, I think Moylan and Soriano will be a solid back of pen late innings tandem.
Ohman is a very quality lefty, especially since he won’t be in Wrigley anymore.
I like Royce Ring more than most. Ring walks too many but so did Mahay and Ring has put up results and good ERAs at whatever level of baseball he has pitched.
I am not a big fan of Blaine Boyer at all but he was pretty decent in 2005 for the Braves.
I can’t get all crazy about Bennett although I liked what I saw out of him late last season for the Braves and for what he did late for Richmond and for the dedication to improving his fitness that DOB reported on. Sounded like he had the eye of the tiger from what DOB reported on. But he is just a long reliever at this point, and will only be pitching in lost causes for the most part like Villareal did last season.
Manny Acosta looked pretty good last season in the majors and in AAA.
Tyler Yates has good stuff and puts up good results for stretches but seems to get torched when they burn him out. On August 2, 2006, Yates had a 2.81 ERA before being burnt out and finishing with a 3.96 ERA. On June 30, 2007, Yates had a 3.06 ERA before getting burnt out and finishing with a 5.18 ERA. He needs to be able to handle the workload better but Cox needs to learn to space out the workload of Yates better as well.
I think the pen will be fine. Paronto was a fat toad. Dotel did nothing. Wickman was a moody waste of space. Villareal was a decent long reliever. As good as Mahay was, Mahay only pitched 28 innings for the Braves, which accounted for only about 5% of the total innings thrown by the pen last season and the pen was still good enough to have the third lowest ERA in the National League.
By cricket
February 4, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
I want a sheeeeeesh kabob. I think NFL coaches should give the kickers at least a bit of respect. I told my friend yesterday that the pats’ coach may regret not kicking the 49 yarder. Why do the coaches put more epmhasis on the 12-15 yards they may save by going for 4th down than kicking the field goal anyway?
By Random
February 4, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Good eye, Coach — nice catch. (Depth in the minors, etc, etc.)
Think Frank is listening? Hope so.
PS: earlier I meant to say “After rehabbing during the 2007 season”.
By Mets-a-tized!
February 4, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Hoss-pitality? (Lack of disclosure stemming from obsequious deference to a certain superstar third baseman)
Them thesauruses DO come in handy!
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Mets-a-tized: If I had such a tattoo, that’d be a good reason not to divulge its existence. Well done.
By Overlord
February 4, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Niels Boor, Santana is coming to a division where he will make some 10 starts against the Braves, Phillies and Marlins (yes, still dangerous without Cabrera). I get your point and you have a point. But dont be fooled, numbers have already being showed, Santana has poor numbers againt some key braves players, but words are only that, it will be settled on the field, and it will be very fun. Thats what i think.
By Efrim
February 4, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Go Giants…..
Although I am not a Giant fan, I just hate the Pats.
Anyway, I am getting a little worried about Chuck James shoulder. I mean, if he is still feeling some soreness after throwing from 90 feet, then isn’t that cause for concern?
I am not the biggest Chuck fan, but if he isn’t ready to go, the rotation might worry me a tad. There will be some injury concerns with Smoltz, Hampton, James and Jurrjens.
By Mets-a-tized!
February 4, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Just funnin’, Dave. I’m a fan of yours and your blog.
Still think you root for the Braves just a little bit, though. But almost anyone would in your place. I must say I prefer your approach to that of the T.J. Simers of the world, who are only out to p!ss off all the hometown athletes they cover. There’s a place for that with some athletes, but certainly not all.
So if you were to get another tattoo, whose tattoo would it be? Sounds like a good idea for a blog poll to me!
After we decide who, then we can decide where to tattoo you. The actuall tattoo-ing can take place before a Braves home game.
Imagine the promotion and ad revenue this will bring!
By richbrave
February 4, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Obsequious? Now thare’s an arcane word well used.
By Mets-a-tized!
February 4, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I learned it from “The Big Easy,” a semi-entertaining movie Ellen Barkin starred in back in her hottie days.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
The Braves Bullpen was 3rd in the NL last year. But, too am a litttle worried we will see a regression by our Bullpen. The mains concerns are 1) Will Moylan be able to repeat his 90 innings and 1.80 ERA performance from last year and 2) The bullpen lost 180 innings with the departure of Wickman, Villeral, Mahay, Ascanio, Devine and Dotel. I hope Glavine will eat some of these innings and a combination of James Reyes/JJJ will improve also. But I do think a couple of relievers are going to be needed to perform better than they have. I’m hoping Boyer/yates/Bennett really do pick up their performace in the Braves Pen and that Ohman and Ring are solid relievers.
GO BRAVES…
By Overlord
February 4, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Its amazing what can playing in NY do for you. Just checking Chippers and Jeters career numbers. Chipper is so much superior than Jeter, it is unbelievable. I think Jeter is only better at stealing bases.
By Lew
February 4, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Niels Boor-You’re absolutely right-Santana will do well in NY and will provide an impact. That is not the question the Mets really have at this point.
What the Mets’ biggest questions are-1. Can Pedro come back? 2. Can Hernandez actually stay healthy? 3. Can Del Gado return to a semblance of his former self? 4. Can Moises actually play over 100 games? 5.Will the real Beltran show up? 6.Can you cope if any and all of these injury prone old men go down? 7.Will the bullpen actually perform this year or be missing like last year?
By 44 Forever
February 4, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Don’t fret, Overlord: Jeter and Chipper both will be in the Hall of Fame someday. It’s just Jeter will have at least four World Series rings to Chipper’s one.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Efrim i like chuck, though he has many weaknesses, and i dont feel great about the rotation without him, mostly because we dont know if hampton will start at all either.
but heres what i was just thinking. next year we lose glavine and hampton. its might not be a terrible thing to have chuck only make 16 starts and hampton to only make 16 starts (as long as they are pretty good starts). this will open the door for jurjens and jojo to get a few starts in the majors, which i think will be valuable experience for next year. obviously, though, if this happens, we need those guys to pitch well up here, but you know.
NFL is over, its time to get baseball into gear!!!
By timmythebrave
February 4, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Great article once again DOB. I always look forward to reading them. Have you heard of the band Ween. I would recommend listening to the show at the Tabernacle last Tuesday. Amazing! It was a big deal for the Mets to get Santana and I would agree that it has made them a better team. They lost Glavine but added Santana. I think that it will give them an extra 5 wins this year. We lost Redman and added Glavine so that might give us an extra 10 wins. Texeira will also be playing the whole year. I think it will be a tight race this year between Mets, Phillies, and Braves. I expect it go come down to the last month of the season. I think the team that has the best record in close games will win the division. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wildcard came out of the division also. No more football so it’s time to focus on the Braves and Thrashers
By robyn
February 4, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Dave- there are a few reports out now saying the braves “are not encouraged to resign Tex,”. Have you heard that?
By Random
February 4, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
DOB—
Thanks, that’s good to hear.
Mark Bowman: “[Infante] said he was excited about the opportunity to play in the National League, where his versatility should prove more valuable.” Know why? ‘Cause there no DH in the NL, Shaun.
(PS: I meant 2007 & 2008 earlier, rather than 2006 & 2007.)
By Efrim
February 4, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
DAP
Regarding after 2008, the Braves will need some proven starting pitching, there is no doubt about it.
I think we have a solid top three in the rotation. But if Chuck is hurt, the rotation is vulnerable. Jurrjens has ability, but until I see him, I can’t know how successful he will be. Most scouts are terrified of his shoulder?, I think that is what it was. When ranking the top prospects, John Sickels, of Minorleagueball.com and Keith Law of ESPN said that they had injury concerns for Jurrjens.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
ColoradoBravesFan one thing you said is the very important. you mentioned have glavine to eat innings. it isnt unreasonable to expect our top 3 to pitch 600 innings this year, which is huge for our bullpen. most braves fans that watched games last year would have noticed, our pen was awesome, but struggled from being used so much, especially yates. moylan has prvoen to be a horse, but shouldnt have to pitch 90 innings this year. i think yates can handle the load he got, just spaced out a little more. i think bobby’s goal should be to try and use no more than 3 relief guys per game, the fewer the better. this means letting guys like moylan go two innings, and then giving him a night off, or getting soriano 5 out saves and such.
bobby cox is a great manager, but my biggest gripe with him would be how he uses the bullpen. i think he screws that up alot. if he handles the guy right, they shouldnt get over worked, and if they arent overworked, our bullepn is great, not good.
By Overlord
February 4, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
How are Infante and Hampton doing with their recovery?
Has Brian take little weight off him?
What about chippers health?
Anybody knows anything about this?
By Braveheart
February 4, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
It’s different expectations Overlord. Jeter is a top of the order hitter, Chipper is a middle of the order hitter. Jeter is a middle infielder, Chipper is a corner infielder.
Chipper is like Kobe Bryant, Jeter is like Steve Nash. You can’t expect the other to play like the other or to put up similar stats. Chipper is better than Nash like Kobe is better than Nash but no one expects Nash to score 40 points a game to make a difference in his team winning and no one expects Jeter to knock 40 homers to make his team win.
Jeter’s rep is not really because of New York. It is in large part because time and again he has stolen the stage in the postseason and against the Mets and the Red Sox when the entire world was watching. Through no fault of his own really, Chipper just hasn’t had as many of those moments. When he owned the big stage in 1999, they could not stop showering Chipper with praise.
It’s also different expectations in the big moment. If Chipper draws a walk in a big moment which helps the team, people groan and yawn. If Jeter draws a walk in a big moment, he is praised for doing all the little things to start, extend or finish a rally. Unfairly, Chipper is expected to hit dramatic homers and even when he does it, people take it for granted sometimes whereas with Jeter, it is somewhat unexpected, and increases the dramatic retelling of the homer.
Rather than a New York bias, I think it is much more of Jeter’s David to Chipper’s Goliath, a middle infielder versus a corner infielder, a top of the order hitter versus a middle of the order hitter.
Chipper is a better player but relative to their position and their lineup spots, Jeter is not that far off from Chipper.
By Niels Boor
February 4, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Lew— Agreed.
Also, 8., will they sign LHernandez and/or Lohse?; and 9., just how much of a drag offensively will Schneider be?
Overlord— Agreed — it will be fun. We’ll just have to see how it all shakes out. (I’m like McFann — “I’m so excited I could almost pee”.)
By DAP
February 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Efrim when it comes to the ‘09 rotation…do you think glavine will have a role?
to me, it all depends on how he does this year, but if i had to guess id say he will go about 14-8 this season with an ERA in the low 4s, and then become a jamie moyer type. an old, reliable lefty to pitch a the bottom of the rotation that will give you close to 200 innings and a low4 ERA. i think glavien will be back in ‘09.
By Niels Boor
February 4, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
DOB: “So Tom Brady got knocked around a bit, like every other quarterback did all season. Whaaa. Or however you prefer to spell the sound of crying.”
“Let me know when someone a little more impartial than you offers the opinion you just did about the supposed assistance from the officials. Because so far, you’re the only one I’ve heard even hint at such a thing.”
Here you go, DOB!.
By Random
February 4, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
McFann: “I feel bad for those out-of-town fans who’ll miss so many games ‘cause dumb ol’ TBS ditched the Braves.”
Check this out from BosnianBaller.
By Braves20
February 4, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Congrats DOB - Your Hudson quote on Santana made the local rag here in Tampa Bay - the one with a sports section about a third as good as AJC.
And speaking of media. How does Barber dare show his face on TV this morning after how he trashed his former team all season?
The only thing different about this year’s winners and last year’s losers is his absence.
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
robyn: Dave- there are a few reports out now saying the braves “are not encouraged to resign Tex,”. Have you heard that?
for what it’s worth, i think it’s the same report, just showing up in a few different places. is this the report you’re reading? (i’ve seen the same one in several places)
The Braves aren’t encouraged about signing Mark Teixeira to a contract that will keep him off the free-agent market. He would be awfully attractive to several teams, including the Yankees and Orioles, who view him as a hometown hero. … He agreed to a one-year, $12.5 million deal for 2008 but could be seeking one of those supersized, $20 million-a-year deals when agent Scott Boras shops him as a free agent.
to me, that sounds like speculation — “he would be awfully attractive…”, “…but could be seeking one of those…” There’s nothing definite here.
plus, it’s from a Chicago newspaper. i’m not saying anything bad about the Chicago media — just that they wouldn’t seem to have an inside edge on how encouraged an Atlanta baseball team is feeling about one of their players. if they did, they would probably make it sound more solid — something like, “according to sources, the Braves aren’t too encouraged…”
The report just doesn’t sound very reliable to me.
By Braveheart
February 4, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Braves20 I fully agree with you about Tiki Barber. Probably the greatest running back in Giants history but he is a bum in my book. I don’t think the Giants would have won if Tiki and Shockey had been playing the last 6 weeks. Eli finally had the freedom to stop worrying about those two crybaby egomaniacs demanding the ball and putting him down. He could finally fling the ball to whomever was open dependent upon the defensive coverage presented instead of worrying about stroking their enormous egos.
But I also think a big difference between this year’s team and last year’s team was that they had rookies and second, third, and fourth year guys finally take that next step up.
It’s something we could see with the Braves. Maybe Andruw Jones is like the Tiki Barber of the Braves. Maybe the Braves have KJ, Frenchy, McCann, Brandon Jones, Yunel, Lillibridge, Chuck James, Jurrjens, JoJo, Acosta, Bennett all step up at the right time like the Giants youngsters did this year. Maybe.
By ncscoots
February 4, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
this means letting guys like moylan go two innings, and then giving him a night off, or getting soriano 5 out saves and such.
Well, considering that would be the surest way to find yourself in situations in which the guy you need in there isn’t available or effective, I think you’re gonna be griping about Bobby this year, too.
If you could see the future and know that you wouldn’t need a specific guy on Thursday, well, sure, use him two innings on Tuesday. But since there are no dugout speed-dials to The Psychic Hotline, most managers prefer to have the flexibility to use a guy three days in a row, if needed.
BP management is the toughest part of a manager’s job, IMO. Bobby hasn’t exactly had the luxury of bullpen depth the last few years, and he’s had a tendency to ride the horses he DOES have and put ‘em up wet. Hopefully, this year, he won’t feel the need to drop in his late-inning guys with a five-run lead, just because it’s the 7th and later.
By StingerSplash
February 4, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Couple of things … One, and I’m no conspiracy theorist but I hatched this one myownself — Goodell goes to Belichick before the game. Says, “Bill, Specter’s all over my backside on this tape crap. I need you to throw the game to take the heat off us and you. We can’t lose our anti-trust status. Capisce?” I know it’s ludicrous, but what are good (or bad) conspiracy theories for if they can’t be ludicrous. Two, anyone notice who was calling the college hoops game Saturday from Monroe, La.? Jon Sciambi! Lucky him! I knew a Delta flight attendant (smoking!) and she said, without a doubt, the least favorite stop for any Delta crew was Monroe. (Delta historians know why the airline serves Monroe to this day). I have a friend of mine whose sister lives in Monroe. It’s not a trip she looks forward to.
By Overlord
February 4, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Daybed Braves will sign TEX, theyll have the money to make an offer attractive enough once glavine and hampton are gone.
When do smoltzs and chippers contracts end? because when they do theyll might sign for the same or even less than their present salary.
Problem is that Frenchy is still due.
By Efrim
February 4, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
DAP
No, I don’t think Glavine will be back in 2009. Personally, I would like the Braves to pursue a front of the rotation type arm, have Smoltz and Hudson at #2 and #3, and let James/Jurrjens/Reyes/Hanson(if he is ready)/Rohrbough(if he is ready) battle it out for the last two spots.
By N8
February 4, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Random
I appologize for being a “prick” to you. LOL!
I haven’t been paying enough attention to which side of the fense you were on. While I’ve certainly been called a prick by fellow Braves fans, I sincerely would have been nicer to you, had I not thought you were a Mets troll.
Again. My bad.
For the record, I still think that Hampton has just as good of a chance of pitching 150 innings as Pedro does. Not sure why. But with Pedro’s history of back troubles, it’s just the way I feel.
As for comaring Bennett to Pedro. NO, that would be silly. However, Bennett looked GREAT last September, and he too is coming off of some rehab from surgery. That should be the ONLY comparsion between the two. Since we were discussing the fine art of predicting a full season based on the previous September, I felt it applied.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
scoots this means letting guys like moylan go two innings, and then giving him a night off, or getting soriano 5 out saves and such.
its the kind of thing you can do when you have a deep bullpen full of guys you can depend on.
one thing bobby could do much better is giving his best relievers the night off in a blowout. yates, moylan and soriano should not pitch the the braves offense is on fire. rest the best pitchers for when you need them in a pinch.
scoots, ill let you know this season when i think there has been a bad decision with the bullpen. thats definitely one area i question often.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Efrim anyone in mind as a #1 who can start in front of hudson and smoltz? right now, its a very short list of guys who can pitch ahead of those two, and even shorter of guys who can be “gotten”.
i just think if glavine shows he can still pitch (like i think he will in ‘08) its gonna be real hard to not try to get back a guy that can give you quality innings for cheap.
By Efrim
February 4, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
DAP
Well, there is a chance Scott Kazmir could be available next offseason. Now, you would have to give up prospects(a lot) to get him, but he is pretty damn good. Other than that, C.C Sabathia will be a free agent, but there is no way the Braves are signing him. Not with Tex to worry about.
By McFann
February 4, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Good question at 12:22, Overlord. (Yeah, you know the one!) I’d like a complete answer to that as well, but maybe this’ll help (Sorry, DOB):
Coming off a second consecutive All-Star selection, McCann is hoping to regain the consistency that he lacked while battling some nagging injuries last year. The 24-year-old catcher feels he’s in the best shape of his life. He maintained good power numbers through his struggles last year and should be able to improve them in what will be his third full Major League season.
—atlantabraves.com
That’s a step in the correct direction, it looks like.
I know this topic is dead now, but the Super Bowl was great! Only problem was the advertisements. The four best (and only worth while, IMO) were:
James Carvil and Bill Frist for Coke
Fave Five with the basketball player
E-Trade with the baby who rented a clown (Oh yeah, clowns are creepy!)
And the Diet Pepsi Max with Joe Buck falling asleep.
Other than that, yikes!!
By knowitall
February 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Good gracious! The Patriots lost. Let it go. They are a great team but they finally lost. There were not conspiracies. I don’t really care for either team but the best team on the field won last night. The Giant defense played just like it’s been playing all post season. If you can pressure the QB with your front four, you always have a chance to win.
By Random
February 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
No worries, “N8”. Sorry I implied you were a prick — you’re one of my favorite bloggers. (And of course the “jerk” comment was tongue-in-cheek.)
“Jeff Bennett hadn’t pitched since 2004, and came up last September and made 3 appearances (2 starts), pitching 13 innings, going 2-1, with a 3.46 ERA. Does that mean if he makes 35 starts this year, we can pro-rate it and pencil him in for a 15-8 season and about 175 innings?”
Aside from the iffy math, I’d seriously say yes, IF Bennett got 35 starts this year, then he would presumably be pitching well enough to have a realistic shot at 15 wins, provided he’s not getting those starts only because all the other Braves starters are out of action. And he’d only have to average 5 innings pert start to get 175 for the year.
For the record, I hope and expect Hampton to KILL this year.
By AdirondackDave
February 4, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Yesterdays football game reminded me why I strongly prefer baseball. Pro football is basically a thugfest in the second half.
By DAP
February 4, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
for superbowl ads, i liked the doritos mousetrap one, the tire ad with richard simmons, the diet pepsi max/night at the roxbury, the baby with the clown, and the justin timberlake one.
By Random
February 4, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
McFann: “The 24-year-old catcher feels he’s in the best shape of his life.”
Does that mean spherical rather than pear-shaped? Is he “rounding” into condition? Ready to “pound” leather?
8-)
By Niels Boor
February 4, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
I am so mad at my mother — she kept switching to FOX News so I didn’t get to see any of the Super Bowl commercials.
All I could do was shake my tiny fist and stomp my tiny feet.
By N8
February 4, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Random
Common sense, would tell you that if Bennett gets 35 starts, he would be doing well. LOL!
For anybody interested, here is a link to Jayson Stark’s ESPN blog from today. It’s a debate on which pitcher (between Maddux and Glavine), would fans of all teams want for their team THIS YEAR ONLY.
Stark Blog
By McFann
February 4, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Niels, you didn’t miss anything.
Ha ha, Random. You’re so funny.
BTW, how’d you make that funny face? When I try to, it looks like this:
8-)
By Random
February 4, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Looks okay to me, McFann. That’s my wide-eyed innocence smiley face. This is my nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say-no-more smiley face.
;-)
And this is my smirky face.
:->
By ncscoots
February 4, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
I see that Jim Molony at MLB.com is first on the list of “Braves-3rd place” pundits. Blog ire is sure to be raised, LOL.
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 4, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Overlord: I hope you’re right about Tex. Of course they have the money to sign him to an extension — they haven’t filled up all of their payrolls for the next 5-6 years already; it’s just a matter of whether the Braves want to go ahead and commit $20 million or so to one player. If they decide not to, well, that’s just playing it too tight if you ask me.
Smoltz’s contract (with options) keep him in Atlanta through 2010: $14 million in 2008; $12 mill in 2009 if he pitches 200 innings in ‘08; $12 or $13 million team option for 2010 if he pitches 200 innings in ‘09. My source is wikipedia, though — someone may want to verify that those numbers/terms are correct.
Apparently Chipper has an option for 2009 that would vest if he has 450 plate appearances in 2008 (source: rotoworld.com).
By Random
February 4, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Nice article N8, but what the heck does this even mean???
“Glavine might win more games, but in the big picture, Maddux will win more games for your team.”
Who does Glavine win games for, his mother? The other team??
Does Glavine win more games in the little picture, and Maddux wins more in the big picture?
I don’t get it.
By AdirondackDave
February 4, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
N8 — Many thanks for the tip on Stark’s bit on Glavine v. Maddux. Good read.. I’d be glad to have BOTH back this year (or next) for last hurrah. Can’t happen though with Maddog at home in S.D.
By McFann
February 4, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Weird. That face looked dumb before I sent it. Must be the bolding that makes it look good.
I like the smirky face, he’s cute.
8 )
I don’t get that either, Random—that thing about Glavine. What a bizarre thing to write!! I guess he’s trying to insinuate that Glavine wins games for himself and not the team, but that’s ludicrous.
By Mike S
February 4, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Random/McFann, I think what Stark was alluding to with that Glavine/Maddux winning games quote (note that it wasn’t Stark who said it, but rather an executive of one of Maddux’s former teams, which I’m assuming was LA or Chicago), was how Maddux is a baseball genius and how that rubs off on the rest of his teammates, and most significantly on younger pitchers. He’s saying that glavine might get more actual wins than maddux, but that the genius that Maddux brings gets more wins overall for the team than glavine does (by making the rest of the team better).
While I do agree that Maddux is more of a “baseball genius” than Glavine and does bring an intangible benefit to his team, Glavine shouldn’t be ignored in that respect either for the vast amount of knowledge and professionalism he brings to a team (especially his influence on the youngsters), which will inherently contribute to the win column as well.
(Sorry those thoughts were a little rambling and jumbled together. Journalist, I am not!)
By McFann
February 4, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Gotcha, Mike S, that makes sense.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
robyn: Dave- there are a few reports out now saying the braves �are not encouraged to resign Tex,�. Have you heard that?
Are these like those “reports” last summer about the Braves’ new ownership getting ready to slash payroll for 2008?
You know, the note written by a Richmond writer, picked up in Philly, then carried in about 50 other places, leading some here to believe that something written by a richmond person with little if any knowledege of Braves ownership’s true intentions, since it was picked up by other outlets, must have credibility? It didn’t. And I don’t think this does.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 4, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, did anyone take my advice and opt for the Giants and the points? if not…. too bad….
Okay, Braves AAA moving to Gwinnett, TBS no longer going to televise Braves games nation wide. Looks like the Braves’ footprint is going to become ever smaller. Certainly making it easier for me to become a Nats fan….
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 4, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
DOB… In all fairness, he got it partially right. They cut cost by moving the AAA franchise to Gwinnett. Sometimes what you hear is right, it’s the interpretation of what is heard that is incorrect.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley went out to pitching camp today and has a column for tomorrow, should be up soon if it’s not already.
Carroll went out and talked to Javy for a story that got bumped to Wednesday by today’s Vick news.
I’m going out there tomorrow to get some stuff for a blog and a story I’m doing for Sunday.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Gil, sorry but that’s really stretching it to say it was partially right. What got fans so upset and left the Braves so frustrated was the line in the story/note about “payroll” being slashed, not anything about “costs” being cut.
I would venture to say that 97 percent of Braves fans outside of the Richmond metro area didn’t much care where the Triple-A team was located (except those in the area it’s moving to).
That’s not something that concerns the average fan, other than those Braves fans who attend Triple-A games.
Slashing payroll, that concerns most fans. A lot. Moving the Triple-A team does not. It understandably matters to those directly affected, those in close enough proximity to attend Triple-A games. But not many others.
By rmf
February 4, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Gil:
Clearly the Braves are conceding NoVa and Richmond to the Nats. Look at where the rest of the minor league teams are — SC, Miss, Rome GA and Danville (very southern border of VA). If they could have moved the AAA to Alabama or NC, I guess they would have done that. Richmond —- my former home and a beautiful city —- used to be part of the Braves territory, but no more.
The move to Gwinnett was not about cutting costs, it was about making money in a new AAA stadium.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I am tired of the payroll talk. It clearly went up for this year — nuff said.
Glad that spring training will start soon.
By Efrim
February 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Aybar was arrested for domestic violence in the Dominican Republic.
By Braveheart
February 4, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Sad to hear about Willy. Sadder to hear for his wife though. Looks like the Braves cut bait at just the right time.
By AdirondackDave
February 4, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Short memory here, who did we get for Aybar?
By Random
February 4, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Mike S, thanks. I get it now.
Btw, I’m not at all convinced that Glavine will be as much of a “mentor” to the Braves’ young left-habded starters as everyone here seems to assume he’ll be.
I’m currently trying to do some digging to see who (if anybody) he might have mentored in his five years with the Mets.
Can you think of any young left-hander(s) whose performance improved during his tenure in NYC? (Post hoc ergo propter hoc?)
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 4, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Yes, DOB… Most people don’t care what happens until it affects them. Usually by then it is too late to do anything about it.
I didn’t say the Richmond writer wasn’t an idiot. Just that he likely heard a rumor and took it to mean something else. It is why it is important to do due diligence to make sure a story is true.
By McFann
February 4, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Hey, Efrim, where’d you get this info? Makes me mad/sad to read. I think the Braves need to cut ties with that feller. He just keeps gettin’ into trouble.
By TNRON
February 4, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
hey Random,can you name more than 2 other pitchers on the Mets that even speak english?
By SNIPER-69
February 4, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Wagner, Heilman, Maine, Perez, Pedro, Pelfrey, Wise all speak english TNRON. That’s more than two where I’m from.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
I don’t think anyone said anything about anyone being an “idiot,” Gil. Please be a bit more responsible than that. That’s how things get completely misrepresented here.
And just out of curiosity, how does the Triple-A team moving affect Braves fans who doesn’t go to Triple-A games? In other words, why should they care?…
Meanwhile, that’s terrible news about Aybar, if it’s true (I hadn’t heard that until reading it here minutes ago). Just hate to hear that kind of stuff. Terrible.
By N8
February 4, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Random
Whoever (scout?) made that comment about Maddux winning more games for the team was making the comment in connection with the direct effect that having Maddux’s intelligence around the other pitchers makes them better, thus helping the TEAM win more games.
McFann
“I think the Braves need to cut ties with that feller. He just keeps gettin’ into trouble.”
You mean like trading him to the D-Rays? Ooops. They already did that, almost 3 weeks ago. :-)
Aybar Trade
By N8
February 4, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
Mike S
Sorry. I didn’t see that you had already explained it to Random.
By McFann
February 4, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Duh! How stupid of me.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 4, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Here is what ESPN has on W.Aybar being arrested in the D.R.
??
//SANTIAGO, Dominican Republic — Tampa Bay Rays infielder Willy Aybar is in custody in his native Dominican Republic for domestic violence charges, according to a local prosecutor.
Aybar, 24, has been held without bail since Thursday for allegedly assaulting his wife in Baní, about 25 miles south of Santo Domingo.
“Aybar is in jail since last week, and he could spend at least three more months in jail if he is convicted of domestic violence,” said Jesus Fernandez Velez, the appeals court prosecutor in charge.
The Rays acquired Aybar and Chase Fontaine when they sent left-hander Jeff Ridgway to the Atlanta Braves in mid-January. Aybar missed the 2007 season with a wrist injury.
Aybar has a .292 career average with five home runs and 40 RBIs in 105 games.
Enrique Rojas is a reporter and columnist for ESPNdeportes.com and ESPN.com.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
It is true about Aybar. I just got a call from a Tampa reporter looking for Aybar’s agent’s number.
By TennesseePaul
February 4, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
I just saw this and was going to post the article I saw. And with that, I gotta say I’m impressed with Wren on the timing… traded this guy for something before he was completely ruined. I still think he could have received more in return, or made it a straight up trade for that worthless minor league lefty specialist.
By TennesseePaul
February 4, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
All this thinking about the Aybar trade in hindsight…
Even still, I think, post-drug abuse/pre-domestic violence Aybar was at least worth that perennially injured career minor league lefty specialist straight up.
Maybe the deal was actually Chase for the lefty and then the obligation that the Rays would look after this kid and not the Braves.
By Lew
February 4, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
DOB-Just picked up the new DBT CD. First impression is that they really miss Isbell. I’ll have to listen to it some more, though. What did you think of it? Hey- My parrott really gets into it-she kind of reacts like she does listening to Blue Moon Swamp by John Fogerty. The buzzard really gets into southern rock.
By McFann
February 4, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
That’s funny about your bird, Lew. I never heard of the first thing you mentioned, but I like Fogerty. (Really love “Centerfield.” Great song.) Our bird (Petey) really gets into the Andy Griffith and Leave It to Beaver theme songs. He cann whistle Andy Griffith pretty good, but ever since his first night fright in Dec. 2001, he’s been kinda confused on that one.
Night, all!! ~:>
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Lew, I really dig the new DBT a lot, and did the first time I played it. I think it ranks up with their best. Frankly, I was surprised how little they seem to miss Isbell, as great as he is.
By TNRON
February 4, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
just kiddin Random.I only wanted to see if Mets fans could count past two.
By TNRON
February 4, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
correction: meant to say Sniper-69.please excuse me for patronizing the wrong Mets fan.
By David O'Brien
February 4, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
Tigers gave Granderson a five-year, $30 mill deal — he wasn’t eligible for arbitration yet.
By Lew
February 5, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
DOB- I just listened to it once and was packing artwork at the time to send southward. I’ll give it some more listening, for sure. Maybe it’s just that I really enjoyed Isbell’s solo so much and my brain is looking for something I missed.
By Mike S
February 5, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Random, I’d say Oliver Perez did pretty well in his first full season at Shea. It’s impossible to say how much influence Glavine had in that, but that does answer your question. Really there haven’t been many young lefthanders to mentor there since Glavine arrived five years ago (Al Leiter and Kaz Ishii are the only other LHP’s to start a significant number of games besides Perez [who’s only been there a year and change]).
By uga-brave
February 5, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
this probably has the chance to be the most interesting braves season in a long time. just like any other team, the only constant is we will win forty and lose forty. what happens in those other eighty or so games is up for debate.
if healthy we know what we will get from chipper, tex, smoltz, and hudson. we should feel somewhat comfortable in improved production from francoeur and mccaan. the real swing production should occur at ss, 2nd, and cf.
those three positions offensively really could be a barometer to whether the braves will be offensively consistent or inconsistent.
if kj cuts down his strikeouts he should be fine. he probably will get a few days off against certain LH’S but he is a gap to gap hitter with better then average power. escobar has better range defensively then renteria but he has to make all the routine plays. at this point his defensive consistency is more important then his bat. he will struggle at some point this year all first time starters do, it will be how he reacts to a slump or a couple of errors that define his season.
as for cf, who knows. wont really know till kotsay sees some live pitching and tests out the back. i know DOB really likes this guy but bad backs are usually big problems. other then being a LH dominat lineup, and assuming someone steps up and claims the leadoff spot our offense should be more then adequate.
bullpen wise soriano is the key he must assert himself as the closer from day one. no slow starts leading to that closer by committe crap. if soriano proves early it is his job (he will get every opportunity to do so) the bullpen will be fine.
no huge revelations being posted here. health and a couple of step ups in performances should keep us in it until at least the trade deadline. one side note i think hampton gonna be a big suprise.
By texmex
February 5, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this
just watched the superbowl play by play and who ever thinks that brady was getting hit late is a horrible football fan and does not know what hes talking about - i couldnt find one late hit that should have been called..its the super bowl guy they are going to let them play unless its a definite penalty like the pass interference on pierce..must be a pats fan..
By nOLIE
February 5, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this
as for cf, who knows. wont really know till kotsay sees some live pitching and tests out the back. i know DOB really likes this guy but bad backs are usually big problems. other then being a LH dominat lineup, and assuming someone steps up and claims the leadoff spot our offense should be more then adequate.UGA-Brave
Perry has an article out on the worst starters at each position in MLB and lists Kotsay as the worst CFer. Know you guys will luv that. ;-)
By Serbok
February 5, 2008 4:24 AM | Link to this
channelsurfing.com? brings me to hasbro? what am I missing? please help? Thanx:o)
By nOLIE
February 5, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this
Serbok
it’s channelsurfing.NET
By Braveheart
February 5, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this
We need Billy Knight to resign. Instead, Bobby Knight resigns. Won’t be the same without that crazy SOB.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this
Perry has an article out on the worst starters at each position in MLB and lists Kotsay as the worst CFer. Know you guys will luv that.
He also praises Jordan Schafer. Does he hate the Braves or like them? I don’t know…ahhh!!!!
Could just be he tries to be objective. Couldn’t possibly, could it? His opinions don’t fit our biases!
By richbrave
February 5, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Brother Dave:
Just read and posted on Bradley’s blog. Nice to see we win the Governor’s Cup again. Three, that’s THREE, SP’s in Richmond this year! Hopefully, Richmonders aren’t so blind to facts as to believe staying away fron baseball in ‘08 is going to teach the Braves a lesson. Our community has the opportunity to show the baseball world that we can support AAA baseball here. I’m buying a book of tickets for games. Something I haven’t done in ten years. The level of ball is gonna’ be great and I want to enjoy one more dance with the boys of summer.
Hey Dave come on up. You can meet my grandson’s and my Cuban beauty. I’ll show you around. Richmond’s a great place to live and enjoy beisbol. Players were complaining about the cooking facilities in the park last year in the paper. Maybe the community should bring in some eats for the club. Just so they know there’s no hard feelings.
By Random
February 5, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
TNRON—
What’s your point, Numb Nuts?
By AdirondackDave
February 5, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Just read the article on Hank Aaron, what a guy! Now there’s somebody I would approve cloning. He mentioned one of his favorite birthdays was a surprise party his wife gve him with his best friends from around the country attending. Other than Bud Selig (since his Milwaukee days I imagine) anybody know who his other pals are? DOB?
By Random
February 5, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Good god, TennesseePaul (here and here), you sound just like a Phillies fan.
Those are exactly the kinds of thoughts that would go though their heads when hearing of such personal misfortune.
By DAP
February 5, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
uga-brave other then being a LH dominat lineup
i dont think this is really the case. weve got three regulars that are lefties, KJ, kotsay and McCann. two regulars are righties, frency and escobar, and in left we have a platoon that we can employ depending on the opposing starter. chipper and tex are both switch hitters so for them, it doesnt make much of a difference.
chipper has a little less power(HR) batting right handed, but still hits for a high average and OPS, and tex hits slightly better right handed, but is still very good both ways.
we have an extremely well balanced lineup.
By David O'Brien
February 5, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, good point.
And a salute to The General. Here’s one media member who always liked and respected the harda&& coach.
By Random
February 5, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
**Mike S— I guess I won’t be able to limit my research to starters, then. (I’m planning on looking at all Mets LH pitchers from 2003-2007 at least 10 or so years younger than Glavine.)
Preliminary results? Mike Bacsik and Jaime Cerda both significantly worsened in 2003 (Glavine’s first year) from their 2002 stats, and both were gone from the Mets in 2004.
On the other hand, Pedro Feliciano seems to have prospered from 2002 ‘til last year, trending generally upward in IP, and downward in ERA and WHIP.
How ‘bout it, Trolls — was Glavine much of a mentor to Mets young left-handers while he was there? Did he have any positive influence on Pedro Feliciano or Oliver Perez, or whomever?
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
What’s wrong with a lineup that is a little more left-handed than right-handed? Most pitchers are right-handed so it seems there’s a natural advantage to having more left-handed hitters on most days.
By McFann
February 5, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
texmex—
You’re correct. That was Coach that claimed there were late hits—he had said before the SB that the Patriots would win by like, 17 points, so he was prob’ly just ticked. He should’ve gotten one of those ref-shaped punching bags from Target. : )
Our lineup rocks, uga. And if Spring Training doesn’t get here soon, I may explode.
~:>
By DAP
February 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
shaun What’s wrong with a lineup that is a little more left-handed than right-handed?
i guess your right, but its not really an issue for the braves, so its a moo point. you know, a cow’s opinion. its moo.
By Niels Boor
February 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Hey, McFann—
What’s night fright?
We used to have some conures, parakeets, and an African Grey, but I’ve never heard of that.
By McFann
February 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Good point, Shaun. It’s nice to have lots of good LH bats in the lineup. Only stinky part is when there’s a LHP startin’ for the other team, we have all those nobodies in the lineup. Other than that, I love a good LH bat, if you uh…know what I mean. ; )
~:>
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Chipper’s SLG is still over .500 as a right-handed hitter over his career.
RH: .305 AVG/.391 OBP/.507 SLG
LH: .308/.408/.560
By TNRON
February 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
I will have you know,sir,they are not numb!!!!
By Random
February 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Hey, uga-brave— I thought it was that every team would win 54 and lose 54, and what happened in the third 54 would determine each team’s fate.
I’ve also heard that in the vast majority (75%? 95%?) of baseball games, the winning team will score more runs in a single one of its innings than the losing team scores in the entire game.
Have you heard anything like this?
If true, it’s powerful anecdotal evidence against the value/wisdom of “small ball”.
By McFann
February 5, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Niels Boor—
A night fright is when something scares the bird at night and he starts flapping around in his cage, trying to escape. They’re more common with cockatiels, which is what Petey Bird is. Petey usually has night frights if a picture falls off the wall while he’s sleeping, or something like that. In his first NF, he lost a lot of blood feathers, so it was pretty bad.
Hope that helps.
~:>
By DAP
February 5, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
random on the topic of “small ball” MLB has regulation baseballs. all the same size.
By DAP
February 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
assuming our standard lineup in 2008 is this:
escobar kotsay chipper tex frenchy mccann kj diaz
we have a balanced lineup without ever changing anything. if we face a righty, weve got 5 lefties and 3 righties. if we face a lefty, we have 5 righties and 3 lefties. thats a good balance.
By Random
February 5, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Hey, McFann—
What’s with your smirky face — are you sporting a mohawk?
By McFann
February 5, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
No, Random, that’s my birdy face.
~ That’s his crest,
: those are his eyes, and
~:>
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Now I understand why Frank Wren dumped Willy Aybar on the Devil Rays. At least we got a serviceable lefty for him in Jeff Ridgway. Good riddance !
By McFann
February 5, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Sheesh, I meant
> that’s his beak.
~:>
By robyn
February 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
No Daybed,
I actually got it from mlb-rumors.blogspot.com, which stated that the Braves were not willing to sign him to a megadeal, and might be willing to trade him, if they aren’t in the playoff hunt. Thanks, Dave, for answering my question.
By Luther
February 5, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
2007:
LH: 378AVG/472OBP/699SLG
RH: 274/345/458
Obviously Chipper is much better from the left side. Not bad at all from the right, but as good as it gets lefty. I think the difference in having a lefty heavy lineup is the perception that LH hitters have a harder time with LH pitchers than RH hitters do with RH pitchers. Could also be because there are fewer LH pitchers, so LH hitters see them less than RH hitters see RH pitchers. Maybe the “natural” movement lefties have, who knows? I’m sure there are some stats on it, just saying what a lot of people think.
By TBraveFan
February 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
DOB Regarding your comment about The General: I was at IU during the latter hey days of Bobby Knight - and I always said if I ever have a son who played college basketball, I’d want him to play for Coach Knight. Not one student ever left his program without a solid education - in academics and life - and a few even left with championships! Coach Knight - congratulations on a phenomenal career!
By TennesseePaul
February 5, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Random: I’m not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean. And what’s with this intimate knowledge of the thoughts that go through the heads of Phillies fans?
It’s a bummer about Aybar, but I still think he was at least worth that pitcher straight up if not more. At the time of the trade he wasn’t in prison… I don’t think anyway.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Luther, looking at more than just one year, looks like Chipper could potentially be even stronger from the right side.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, I have no idea; maybe the Braves could have received more for Aybar. But he was a backup player with some personal problems. It would be different if he were a definite major league starter. I doubt the Braves could have gotten all that much more.
By Random
February 5, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
My mistake, TNRON.
Anyway, what was your point?
By Random
February 5, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
DAP—
“In the sport of baseball, small-ball is an informal and colloquial term for an offensive strategy in which the batting team emphasizes placing runners on base and then advancing them into position to score a run in a deliberate, methodical way. This strategy places a high value on individual runs and attempts to score them without necessitating extra base hits, or sometimes without base hits at all, instead using bases on balls, stolen bases, sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly balls, the hit-and-run play, and aggressive baserunning.” (Wikipedia)
However, my nutshell definition of “small ball” is trading an out for a base. Like Shaun says, its value is always situational, depending on the number of outs available, the location of the base in question (home plate is of course the most valuable base), and your other options and their risks/benefits.
By uga-brave
February 5, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
chipper’s natural side is rh. he always says it takes him longer to get his timing in ST lh. funny thing about lh hitters, they always have prettier swings then rh’s.
my point about having to mamy lh hitters in the lineup is two-fold. santana, perez, and wagner from the mets. hammels and moyer from the phils. gonna see plenty of tough leftys. we struggled most of last year against lh’s. could be a fluke or could be a trend?
By DAP
February 5, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Shaun looking at more than just one year, looks like Chipper could potentially be even stronger from the right side.
chipper is awesome no matter which side of the plate he stands on, but there’s no way you were looking at stats when you typed this.
lifetime left handed: .308 avg with a .968 OPS. just awesome.
lifetime right handed: .305 avg with a .898 OPS. also very awesome.
obviously hes very good both ways. one of the best. but you cant say he’s stronger right handed. he is slightly better lefthanded.
By Niels Boor
February 5, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Where do you live, McFann — Elm Street? How often do pictures fall off the wall at your house?
By DAP
February 5, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
random i know, man. im just messing with you.
and i agree with you on small ball, but you have to play to your team’s strengths, as well. i say take how you can get them, any way you can. bunts and sacflies serve thier purpose.
i dont know about anyone else, but one of the most exciting things to me in a baseball game is a squeeze play! one of the most exciting plays in baseball, i think.
By DAP
February 5, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
uga-brave my point about having to mamy lh hitters in the lineup is two-fold.
dude, we dont have to many left handed hitters. its a moot point. we have quite a different lineup than last year, too, so dont worry about last year.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
DAP, I meant he looks like he could be stronger than he was in 2007, the stats the Luther posted; not that he’d be stronger from the right side. Sorry. Didn’t make myself very clear.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
uga-brave, I don’t know if I say the Braves struggled against lefty pitching last season. They certainly weren’t great but weren’t bad either.
Braves: .276 AVG/.338 OBP/.428 SLG
NL AVG: .272/.342/.430
By Random
February 5, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul: “what’s with this intimate knowledge of the thoughts that go through the heads of Phillies fans?”
Two baseball seasons and one Rotisserie League living in West Phila and working in South Phila.
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Here is some interesting reading — Jayson Stark’s chat from today. The debate is “Which 300-game winner would you rather take for THIS year, Glavine or Maddux?”
By Braves20
February 5, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
DOB and TBraveFan - Thanks for your comments on the General. Granted, the guy had a temper. He also has three rings and hundreds of kids who graduated from his programs.
I feel sorry for the troll who writes in our local paper here in the Tampa Bay area who has made a lifetime of trashing the guy. Don’t know what the heck he will write about - maybe Willy Aybar.
By McFann
February 5, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Ha ha, no, we don’t live on Elm Street. But when we were younger, we used to tape drawings on the wall. Then when the tape wore out, well…that’s when they’d fall. I would’ve explained it better before, but I knew I’d get a funny response out of you if I didn’t.
~:>
By Braveheart
February 5, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse If you are out there, I just got around to checking my mail. Thanks for the Ghostface/Rhythym Roots/Peter Tosh cd. It’s really cool. Thanks man.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Daybed Wagmoe, it is an interesting debate. And I don’t know. Looks too close to call to me. Glavine has had slightly better seasons recently in a tougher division. But Maddux has better strikeout ability and control.
By Braves20
February 5, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Daybed - Just finished that article myself during my lunch break. Have to agree with the un-named MLB exec at the end of the article. Maddox won more games for his team just by his presence in the the clubhouse, the dugout and the pen. The man’s a pitching genius.
One only hopes when his playing days are over, he would, despite not needing the job, become a MLB pitching coach - preferably in a nice southern city.
By TennesseePaul
February 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Payne: Well, at the time of the trade his DV hadn’t been made public. Perhaps insiders knew more though and were closely following the domestic lives of all bench players in the majors. I don’t know that they did. I tend to believe they weren’t. Either way, Willy had a good “track record” while on the field in the Majors. So while he did have “trouble” attached to his name he also had “quality” attached; joined, if you will, by baseball’s favorite spring term: “if”. Quality if he can avoid trouble. He was traded for a guy that has “injury” attached to him as well as “sub-par”. He’s sub-par if he’s not injured.
The trade went down prior to public knowledge of “trouble” rising to the top of the heap of tags. So a “quality”/”trouble” bench player and an “average” minor league 3B were traded in “quantity” for a “sub-par”/”injured” minor league lefty specialist.
A lot of heat comes down when Wren’s moves get questioned, even though he has built no long standing reputation as a clever GM with a rapist wit.
I question this move. I speculate that, had JS made this deal, it would have been Aybar for Ridgway and some other Rays cast away. Wren’s worth will be determined over the next couple of years. I don’t intend to lend him praise merely for occupying the former seat of a giant in the field.
Whatever. If Aybar had been kept, as I was hoping, he’d be of no use now anyway and we’d be right where we are… only, we’d still have Chase and no temptation for Cox to call up Ridgway in the middle of a pennant drive. But the bench would look the same. Lillibridge or whoever earns the spot, would still be on the team without the Aybar trade considering Aybar’s predicament.
By Braveheart
February 5, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Don’t you think the whole Maddux teaches up the rest of the team into a few more wins a year to be a bit overplayed?
The Braves won 101 games in the last year of Maddux and had a 4.10 ERA.
The next year after Maddux left, the Braves won 96 games and had a 3.74 ERA in the only year they did not have Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Hudson, Millwood in the rotation.
Despite the lower ERA, the Braves won 5 less games because the Braves scored 100 less runs, not because Maddux wasn’t around teaching. Not unless Stark was talking about how Maddux teaches the hitters as well.
By uga-brave
February 5, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
speaking of maddux and glavine. i would highly recomend leo’s book “tale’s from the braves mound”
ton’s of great stories in there, especially some great mazzone maddux dialogue on the mound.
By OrlandoFan
February 5, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
IF the Braves had had a more consistent bullpen and a more productive offense during his time there, Maddux easily could have won 20 more games with the Braves. Probably true about Glavine, too. But I remember Maddux seeing Ws getting away late because the bullpen didn’t hold his lead. And the offense some years — as noted by Braveheart — was not that dynamic.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, yes, I realize no one probably knew of the domestic violence. But what did they know? They knew that Aybar had some off-field problems and that he was probably no better than a Wilson Betemit type player, at best. Put those things together, I’d be kind of leery of giving up all that much for him if I’m a GM.
Not trying to give Wren any praise for the deal. I’m just saying, it was probably as good a deal as was available for Aybar.
By TennesseePaul
February 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
I’m just saying, it was probably as good a deal as was available for Aybar.
Yes. I do not know if other deals were available. But I do keep seeing this line a lot. “It was the best deal available Wren could make.” I’m not so sure I believe that entirely. Perhaps on a case by case basis, but I’m not one to believe that it was the best deal available simply because Wren made the deal. Even with all of Aybar’s hangups, I would have thought Aybar alone would at least be worth a cronically injured minor league lefty specialist with a limited but terrible major league track record.
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
OrlandoFan, on the flip side, how many games did the Braves defense or some other aspect of their game give Maddux a win? And I’m sure the offense helped him as opposed to hurt him in a lot of years—1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2003…Braves had good offensive clubs all those years.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
February 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Once again the Braves are ahead of the curve and know their personnel better than anybody else. Looks like they traded Wily Aybar right in time. Low risk high reward trade. I will admit I am wrong because I thought they could’ve got more but it appears that getting rid of him was the best thing to do.
I really hope Aybar gets his life right. I really do.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
February 5, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Once again the Braves are ahead of the curve and know their personnel better than anybody else. Looks like they traded Wily Aybar right in time. Low risk high reward trade. I will admit I am wrong because I thought they could’ve got more but it appears that getting rid of him was the best thing to do.
I really hope Aybar gets his life right. I really do.
By DonCoburleone
February 5, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Not good news on Chuck James B!tch!’s shoulder DOB… Sounds like the makings of a lost 2008 season for him. Whenever a pitcher has soreness in the elbow or shoulder, its never a good thing. So what does the rotation look like with no Chuck James and (presumably) no Mike Hampton?
Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens, Reyes?
By Shaun
February 5, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, oh, I’m not assuming it’s the best deal available simply because of Wren. I’m assuming that it’s the best deal available because if there were another obviously good deal available for Aybar, I think any GM would have made it. I just don’t think it’s very likely Wren (or any GM) would have past up something much better than a situational lefty for a solid backup (skill wise), had something better been available.
By uga-brave
February 5, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
shaun, 1994 & 1995 (strike shortened years)maddux’s most dominant years, he went
25 starts, 16-6, 1.56, 10 cg, 3 sho 28 starts, 19-2, 1.63, 10 cg, 3 sho
how in the heck did he lose 6 in 1994? well its pretty safe to say he would of won 20 back to back if he had got his normal 33-35 starts. 1995 7 no decisions while posting a 1.63 era. thats 25 % of his starts.
seems like to me he might of been lacking some support somewhwere.
two of the greatest back to back seasons posted by a pitcher in the modern baseball era.
By Lew
February 5, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Niels Boor-Re: pictures falling off of the wall-it all depends. If you’re an artist like myself and McFann, you tend to have art stacked five deep on every shelf and have every available blank wall space covered. I have art perched precariously all over the place. My parrot is just used to the falling art and it no longer ruffles her feathers.
By TNRON
February 5, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Random, No real point dude,only a little light hearted fun.its only baseball.we should be able to get a laugh now and then.
By McFann
February 5, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Exactly, Lew. My brother, sister, and I all draw a lot. Now we’re more careful about hanging pictures near Petey cage.
…every available blank wall space covered.
No kidding. The wall in my bedroom is ridiculous.
: )
By McFann
February 5, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Nice thing about Javy. People really like that he’s “in shape”, apparently. ; )
By OrlandoFan
February 5, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the stats to support my comment, UGA Brave. Maddux definitely lost some opportunities. I haven’t looked, but I would say in some of the really good years that the Braves had a lot of blown saves. Maddux left a lot of games with the lead and didn’t get the nod. Somewhere, there’s probably a stat for that.
By David O'Brien
February 5, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Went out to pitching camp today, talked to Smoltz, who threw off mound for first time this winter. He had some interesting things to say about his approach this spring, etc, and about the team.
I’ll post a new blog in an hour or so.
By richbrave
February 5, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
McFANN:
Now,now, don’t be defensive. No one’s gonna’ take Mc Cann’s place.
By Joe Fan
February 5, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
DOB,
For those of us who live outside the broadcast area on Peachtree TV and inside the MLB.com blackout area how are we supposed to see the 45 games on Peachtree TV?
By McFann
February 5, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
I know that, richbrave.
By David O'Brien
February 5, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Joe Fan, wish I had an answer for you, but I don’t.
By David O'Brien
February 5, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Thought a couple of folks here might be interested in this from a Mets Q&A with mlb.com writer Marty Noble, who has covered the team longer than any other NY beat writer ever has.
Again, please note I’m merely cutting and pasting and question from a Mets fan and the reply from their mlb.com beat writer:
Now that the Mets have a real No. 1 starter, you can stop pining over Tom Glavine leaving. I say good riddance to a guy who showed his true colors when he went back to the Braves.
— Neil F., Port Washington, N.Y.
So you think Glavine secretly was wearing a Braves T-shirt under his Mets uniform for five years? Are there any other conspiracy stories that you’d like to conjur? Which of the 61 games that he won with the Mets do you want him to give back? Do you consider them counterfeit in some way? Glavine was mostly ineffective in his first season with the Mets, 2003. But thereafter, Glavine averaged 13 victories per season for four years, and the Mets won 73 of his 132 starts the past four years — that’s a .553 percentage. And in 2006, they won 24 of his 32 starts. The only pitcher who had a more positive effect was one Johan Santana.
And there is this for all the Glavine haters:
Glavine’s final seven starts of 2007: 2-2, 4.97 ERA.
Santana’s final seven starts of 2007: 2-4, 5.11 ERA.
Neither is very good. But the point is, it’s unfair to judge any pitcher by three or four starts — or even one year out of five. And I suspect Glavine’s entire tour with the Mets has been evaluated through the prism of his final start by a lot of folks.
By Anders
February 5, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
DOB
Hello from Montreal. Based on your 5:30 post it looks like you’ve contracted the “Glavine Obsession” I had.
I reccomend you have Frank Wren trade for one of the best pitchers in baseball immediately. You’d be suprised how quickly that rid me of any “Glavine Thoughts”. It’s like he was never a Met at all. For some strange reason I now see his September performance as a blessing on many, many levels.
By David O'Brien
February 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
New BLOG IS UP, folks.
By Rick Roberts
February 5, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Good blogs about the ‘08 Braves outlook. My input: a. Send Thorman to Richmond and get at bats—1B. b. Sign Mark Sweeney—he’ll win key games for us. c. Bobby Cox has to be more unpredictable—manufacture more runs please! d. Biggest question is Closer/Soriano. I agree that Braves should see what the Twins want for Nathan—that would lock us in for the division and beyond. Twins need a SS, aka Lillibridge, and a CF—Blanco in the deal, plus a pitcher. e. To me, the Phils, Mets and Braves are nearly dead-even. Braves have the pitching depth, Phils the offense, and Mets have lots of talent on the field. Bobby has to have his best year managing.
By MetsPussycat
February 5, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
DOB..in response to your 5:30pm post you are right it is unfair to compare any pitchers off 3 or 4 starts! But like Anders I also feel that signing a pitcher like Santana does take all of our nasty thoughts of Glavine’s ending performance away! Glavine is and always has been a Brave at heart! He secretly wore a Braves logo on all his underwear the whole season! lol! A new season is upon us so may the best pitcher (Johan)win in 2008!
By Random
February 5, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
TNRON: “only a little light hearted fun”
Hmph.
Well.
If you say so.
I guess.
Still seems kinda racist to me. But what do I know, SAWB that I am?
DAP: “i say take how you can get them, any way you can.”
Exactly — totally situational, as in “taking advantage of”.
By Niels Boor
February 5, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Oho, McFann — so now you‘re setting me up.
Well, okay then. We’ve got our eye on you, young lady, so you’d better straighten up and fly right.
Or elves.
Lew— yeah, well, I used to doodle a bit myself; now I’m more of a wordsmith (charitably speaking, of course).
I have scribbled napkins and credit card receipts stacked five deep all over.
No longer any birds, though (quoth the raven, “never more”).
By McFann
February 5, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
OK, Neils, whatever. I wasn’t setting you up. Doodle on napkins? Good for you. (Sheesh.)
But dude, there’s a new blog up. Get off the old one.