AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > February > 01 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USPitching camp convenes, spring training nears
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
After the first day of Roger McDowell’s Braves pitching camp at Turner Field, we can say with a great deal of certainty that reliever Peter Moylan has the most heavily tattoed pitching arm in major league baseball.
The good-natured Aussie has lost his mind.
OK, that’s not fair, especially coming from an idiot who has Johnny Cash and Hunter Thompson tattoos.
But really, Moylan has every square inch of his right arm illustrated with ink, after adding a large koi fish tattoo to his inner biceps over the winter — the last significant previously unadorned space he had from wrist to shoulder. I will say, he’s got good work. These aren’t amateur-hour tatts.
If pitchers were permitted to work with uniform sleeves cut at the shoulders, Moylan’s intricate tattoos alone could mesmerize batters into 0-2 counts, where they might be defenseless against the slider he perfected last season.
But anyway …
Let’s get serious here. Pitching camp, Day 1.
What did we observe or learn that we can quickly relate to the good denizens of the Braves/MIB blog?
I’ll try to keep each item brief so that I can get it all in without putting you to sleep.
— Hudson looks, sounds serious: Tim Hudson is in excellent physical condition — but that shouldn’t be surprising, considering the man always looks more like an 800-meter runner or Olympic swimmer than a baseball player. Fit, fit, fit.
What you should care about most is how motivated Hudson seems, how much he wants to get the Braves back to the postseason after a two-year absence, and how Johan Santana going to the Mets only seems to have him more fired up.
“I feel good about our team, top to bottom,” Hudson said. “I like where were are, as a team and a [pitching] staff.
“We can’t be consumed by what other teams are doing. I think we’re pretty good ourselves. I feel real good about our team. I don’t care what other teams are getting.”
As for Santana, with whom he’s quite familiar from his American League years, Hudson said, “He’s pretty good, but he’s not unbeatable. He got hit around a little bit last year.”
When the two pitchers squared off June 14 at Minnesota, Hudson threw seven shutout innings of two-hit ball, while Santana allowed two runs and five hits in seven innings with nine strikeouts, including a Brian McCann home run.
Bob Wickman blew that game by allowing three runs in the ninth, not the first or last game the later-released Braves closer blew for Hudson last season.
Hudson is coming off his first truly “normal” offseason as a Brave, the first in which he wasn’t either concerned about living up to a new contract, or trying to strengthen troublesome abdominal muscles, or hearing trade rumors, etc.
And with Tom Glavine added to a rotation that leaned far too heavily on Smoltz and Hudson last year, both Smoltz and Hudson say they’re eager and optimistic about the Braves’ chances in 2008.
— Glavine has settled in: The first month or so were a whirlwind for Glavine in his return to the Braves. But 41-year-old lefty said he’s gotten back into a routine, has no health issues, and feels better about spring training and the upcoming season than he’s been in a long time.
“I’ve been looking forward to spring training, and this [pitching camp] is a little bit of an appetizer,” said Glavine, who didn’t have any early pitching camps in five seasons with the Mets. “It’s always nice to get a jump on things, so you can start working on things from Day 1 when you get to spring training.”
He made it clear that his improved attitude about the upcoming season wasn’t a reflection of the Mets or how he was treated. He liked the team and the city.
He just hated being away from his family for such long stretches. As he prepared for spring training the the past five seasons, he did so knowing that when the Mets went north, he’d be flying over his family and their Alpharetta home and to New York or wherever the Mets were opening the season.
This time, Glavine knows he’ll be coming home after we’re done in Florida.
“It’s a different feeling,” he said. “Not that I didn’t look forward to spring training when I was with the Mets. But there was a bittersweet feeling, knowing that I was going to be away from my family. Now it’s six weeks of spring training, and knowing I’m going to come back home after it’s over. It feels good.”
“It’s exciting. We’re looking forward to seeing how it all comes together.”
I didn’t ask him about trading Port St. Lousy (he didn’t call it that) for Dark Star (and he didn’t call it that), but I’m sure he’d say the restaurants are a lot better in the greater Orlando area.
Oh, and the Massachusetts native picks the Patriots on Sunday, 30-17.
— Oh, one more thing about Johan: Before I forget, how many out there in Braves Nation still think the Braves should or could have traded for Santana?
Great pitcher, but in my view the price tag is simply too enormous for any team that doesn’t have the deep revenue streams that come with things like a new, Citibank-sponsored ballpark, a huge market, and your own cable network.
But unless the price tag goes over $20 mill a year for Mark Teixeira, I can already hear Braves fans howling about the team’s mistake if they don’t sign him. And on that one, I’ll probably be in agreement with the fans.
Need to get it done.
And yes, they really should get a Jeff Francoeur deal done before the season. And you know what? I get a feeling the Braves will.
“I’m not at liberty to discuss contract negotiations that may or may not be taking pace,” GM Frank Wren said rather coyly.
— Speaking of Frenchy: He’s bigger. Francoeur’s arms and shoulders are more muscular after an offseason working out with a trainer and football players in one of those serious, high-tech programs designed for high-level sports.
He’s added upper-body strength without getting any bulkier. If anything he looks a little more lean everwhere except the arms and shoulders.
Another who is noticeably more muscular: Brandon Jones. Initially I didn’t even recognize the rookie outfielder when I stepped into the room that houses the indoor batting cages and saw him in there taking swings Friday.
The shoulder that Jones hurt in winter ball? No problem. “We call it a stateside wound,” Wren joked, and by that he meant the type of injury a player sometimes gets when he’s ready to come home.
— Blaine Boyer looks, sounds ready: He’s healthy, he’s out of minor league options, and he’s excited for a chance to show and remind everyone what he’s got.
Whether it’s with the Braves or another major league team, I’m gonna predict that Boyer will make an impact this season. He’s nearly two years removed from shoulder surgery and spent the offseason strengthening his legs, a smart move that should help the power pitcher take some stress off that arm.
Boyer told me that he’s getting more extension with his pitching arm than he ever got before, that he didn’t realize before how he was “cutting off” his follow-through, probably because of the discomfort he’d get in his arm.
He said he’s noticed a big difference in how the ball “explodes” from his hand.
Hey, this Braves bullpen is deeper than before, and he’s going to have to earn a spot, not get one just because he’s out of options. But Boyer looks fully capable of doing that. He was popping the catcher’s mitt Friday, throwing hard with an easy delivery on the first day of pitching camp.
— Infante stops by clubhouse: Omar Infante had hoped to get the pin removed Friday from his surgically repaired left hand, but he’s going to have to wait another couple of weeks.
It’s only been two weeks since the veteran utility man had surgery to repair a broken bone after he was hit by a pitch in Venezuelan winter league game.
Infante seems like a real good guy, a friendly sort who apologized for not speaking better English when he answered a couple of reporters’ questions Friday. We explained to him that we’re always grateful when guys try to communicate like he did, and besides, his English really isn’t that bad.
(Certainly it’s a lot better than my Spanish, which is basically non-existent. Hardly a day goes by when I’m not reminded what a wise decision that was by me, taking French instead of Spanish in college. Bonehead. Where’s the guidance counselor when you need one….)
Anyway, Infante still is expected to be ready no later than mid-April, and the Braves aren’t ruling out the possibility of him opening the season with them. Either way, Wren told me he’s satisfied with the bench and isn’t looking to add.
— Thoughts on Lillibridge, Thorman: I asked if Scott Thorman is still considered the backup first baseman, and was told he was. Bobby Cox said the Braves will also play him some in the outfield during spring training.
Wren said the Braves have several ways they could go filling out their bench with what they have now, and that he doesn’t expect those decisions to be finalized until late in spring training. He didn’t get into specifics.
As for Brent Lillibridge, I relayed the question to Wren that someone had for me here last week: Do the Braves consider him a future every-day player or a super-utility type guy?
The GM confirmed what I said last week: Braves believe Lillibridge could end up being either type of player.
“He can do a lot of different things,” Wren said. “No doubt he can be a frontline shortstop.”
But he can also play a lot of different positions, and Wren noted that Lillibridge is more than willing to give that role a go if that’s where he’s needed.
— OK, gotta cut it off here: There was other stuff, but we’re going on forever. Waay long. Sorry about that. Hope I didn’t bog you down with stuff…. John Smoltz wasn’t there today but is expected to show up after he gets back from the Super Bowl…. Mike Hampton may or may not come to the camp, but Braves said it’s perfectly fine if he wants to keep throwing on his own in Orlando, where he has a home (he also has one in Phoenix)…. Oh, and Moylan is working on a changeup that he thinks will really help him against lefty hitters. He’s in great shape, too, by the way, after a winter of swimming workouts in the ocean.
— Just one stat before we leave: Glavine went 18-27 with a 4.03 ERA in his first 62 starts for the Mets from opening day 2003 to Sept. 18, 2004. After making big adjustments in his approach, including pitching inside a lot more, he went 43-29 with a 3.93 ERA in his final 102 starts with the Mets, including those bad three at end of last season.
Here’s how some random pitchers of Braves/MIB blog interest have done since Sept. 19, 2004:
Jon Garland 48-30, 4.07 ERA, 661 innings (100 starts).
Greg Maddux 44-41, 4.29 ERA, 650 innings (106 starts).
Brad Penny 39-23, 3.75 ERA, 575-1/3 innings (96 starts).
Tim Hudson 43-32, 3.95 ERA, 654-2/3 innings (101 starts).
Barry Zito 41-37, 4.10 ERA, 664-2/3 innings (105 starts).
Oliver Perez 27-29, 4.82 ERA, 412-1/3 innings (74 starts).
Tom Glavine 43-29, 3.93 ERA, 628 innings (102 starts).
And since we’ve been playing the Gimme Back My Bullets CD a lot lately:
”EVERY MOTHER’S SON” by Ronnie Van Zant & Allen Collins
Well I’ve been ridin’ a winning horse for a long, long time
Sometimes I wonder is this the end of the line
No one should take advantage of who they are
No man has got it made
If he thinks he does, he’s wrong
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
I’ve seen it happen so many times, so many times before
Some man got so much money he doesn’t worry no more
Or he’s got such a pretty woman that’ll treat him fine
Well my friend has been a fool
It happens every time
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
I’m not tryin’ to preach to no one, to no one at all
I’ve seen so many of my good friends just rise to fall
‘Cause they got so much money or a woman so fine
Well my friends have all been fools, it happens every time
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
What I say
Every mother’s son better hear what I say
Every mother’s son will rise and fall someday
Comments
By McFann
February 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
First?
Yeah, the tattoos are prob’ly the reason why Moylen wore long sleeves in 100 degree weather.
By Geraldo
February 1, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Second?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
First?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
DOB- how do any of the potential back of the rotation guys look?
By richbrave
February 1, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
THIRD?
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Ipp: I should’ve put in the main post that Chuck James is only now starting to throw off flat ground from 90 feet. He and Braves still believe he’ll be ready for spring training, but I have my doubts.
And when he confides that his shoulder is still a bit sore some days … well, I’ve got my doubts about him and that shoulder, let’s just put it that way.
For his sake, I hope I’m wrong.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
February 1, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Okay, LET”S PLAY BALL!!!! I’m rested and ready…..
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
I wish opening day was tomorrow. Here’s your 2008 Mets rotation the braves will be facing. Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez (the brave killer), El Duque/Pelfrey. Bullpen: Feliciano, Sosa, Heilman, Sanchez, Wise, Wagner. I do expect one more move by the Mets for a long relief pitcher. Maybe Lohse or Hernandez.
By David-ATL14
February 1, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Outstanding blog DOB.
Gets the baseball fires burning with unbridled enthusiasm.
By McFann
February 1, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
I wish Opening Day was tomorrow, too. Perez a Braves killer? Most of the time, yes. But take a look at 9/26/06 and 8/07/07. They hit him hard in those games!!
By Efrim
February 1, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Well, the Chuck thing ain’t good news. Not to mention Hampton isn’t the healthiest and Jair Jurrjens has an injury history. We’ll see……
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
Your Key phrase is “Most of the Time” Mcfann.
By Bill
February 1, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Braves will be lucky to finish .500.Boycott them and get this sham of an ownership group and sell the team to someone who wants to win.
By Jim
February 1, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Ronnie Van Zant…….Man, what a talent. Oh what could have been (if not for that damn plane crash). I think I’ll go have a beer and throw on “Gimme Back My Bullets” too.
Oh yeah, I predict Hudson and/or Smoltz will have an equal or better season than Santana this year. How many times have the Muts been pegged as “the team to beat” over the last few years?…..and how many times has it panned out?….one year I believe it was. I’m still laughing about their monumental collapse last season…….great stuff . Oh well, time to go listen to Skynyrd.
By Alan
February 1, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Great work as always, DOB. Accompanying pictures of “Camp Roger” are neat, too, although I’m a tad perplexed that the Braves allowed the “enemy” (A. Jones) to participate in the workouts. And what gives with Damian Moss? Did he accompany Moylan from Australia? Another observation about Santana. I live in Scranton, PA (yes, home of “The Office”) and I drive frequently to Philadelphia on business. Wednesday morning, the guys on Philly’s #1 sports radio station (WIP 610-AM) talked about how Santana would affect the NL East race between the Phillies and the Mets. Not once all morning did hosts or callers mention the Braves. The closest they came was when an alleged expert referred to Tom Glavine as “done.” Philadelphia is a great city, but their fans are obnoxious and arrogant - and they haven’t won a championship in any professional sport since 1980! Give me a break.
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Moss was working out in Braves gear, but isn’t signed. They’ve not decided whether they’ll sign him, but it’d be a minor league deal if anything.
By AdirondackDave
February 1, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the very good read, DOB. Sounds like positive attitudes on the club about ‘08.
Signing Santana is certainly a strong plus for the Mets but, man, a 7-year huge dollar contract for ANY pitcher seems scary to me. I’d go 7 years for Tex before Santana for the same money. I’d like to see some serious research into the health of pitchers vs. position players on those long-term contracts. Seems to me, at least anecdotally, that pitchers don’t hold up as well as position players. DOB or anybody have anything on this?
I’m still more concerned about the Phillies than the Mets because of the damage Rollins, Utley, and Howard are going to do.
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
A few 2007 pitching stats:
NAME IP ERA SO WHIP K/9
BRAVES Smoltz: 205.2 3.11 197 1.18 8.46 Hudson: 224.1 3.33 132 1.22 5.30 Glavine: 200.1 4.45 89 1.41 4.00 Hampton: - - - - - James: 161.1 4.24 116 1.38 6.47 Jurrjens: 30.2 4.70 13 1.14 3.87 Reyes: 50.2 6.22 27 1.68 4.80 Bennett: 13.0 3.46 14 1.31 9.69 Carlyle 107.0 5.21 74 1.39 6.22
METS Santana: 219.0 3.33 235 1.07 9.66 Martinez: 28.0 2.57 32 1.43 10.29 Maine: 191.0 3.91 180 1.27 8.48 Perez: 177.0 3.56 174 1.31 8.85 Hernandez: 147.2 3.72 128 1.17 7.80 Pelfrey: 72.2 5.57 45 1.71 5.57
Make of it what you will, but I think that if ANY Mets starter is out for any length of time, they’re in trouble again this year, whereas we are set for backups.
By flange1
February 1, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the new blog! I am excited about the season. Not so good news about Chuck. I didn’t like that picture on AJC with the heating pad strapped to him.
Are Bennett or Morton at this camp?
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 1, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Ipp… I agree; every team will have one or two of their starting 5 have injuries or ineffectiveness over 162 games. The braves have depth to cover this almost certainty. There is no one right now the mets can count on to “hold the fort” should one of their starters pull a hamstring, or need Tommy John surgery. GO BRAVES….
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Its a done deal and now let the games begin. I hope you enjoyed the script becasue until the season starts there is nothing more to do than to have fun. When the season starts everybody will be serious about baseball and you guys can realize that the METS are serious about erasing 07’. Santana is now a MET and the marlins got Gonzo. That should send you straight to the cellar and thats cool with the rest of the NL East.
BIG BLUE AND METS, WHAT A COMBO OF CHAMPS!!!!!
By ncgary
February 1, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
5 yr estenesion + his 13 million this year 7 million sign bonus 137 million guaranteed through 2014. johan gave in 2 year and 38 million from his original demands
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Smotlz 41, Hudson 32, Glavine 42…..Santana 28, Martinez 36, Maine 27. Make of it what you will but if any of the brave top three go down…….
By TK
February 1, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB…Do you think Joe Nathan of the Twins is next to be traded? It would be nice to see him closing for the Braves. If the Braves could steal him from the Twins. The Braves would have one of the better (if not best) bullpens in baseball.
By Braves Fan
February 1, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’ve always loved your blog.
But this one was by far your best yet.
My question:
What position do you think Blaine could win in the bullpen? Long relief? Short relief? I remember him when he was playing CF at Walton, so he’s my favorite player.
By Mike Honcho
February 1, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Sniper-69
what?? Now you think that Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine are going to go down??? what if PEREZ, PEDRO AND EL DUQUE GO DOWN!!!(more likely to happen) HA THEN WHAT??? who are you putting in Santana, Santana, Santana and Santana,Santana?? you Mets fans are thinking that Santana is going to pitch for the entire rotation. or What, PELFREY?? He’s a Scrub with a mouthpiece.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 1, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Sniper.. what happens if one of the Met top three go down? Braves have some depth, mets? Not so much
GO BRAVES….
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Told you guys that extensions could be granted. Now that thae deal is done do you realy feel secure about the braves rotation? You have to have some concern thats not delusional nor septic waste material, right DOB, LEW..anyone??
By Kev
February 1, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Sniper-69
Why dont you continue the Rotation, cause it’s a 5-MAN ROTATION…who you got after that Perez,26, and EL DUQUE???50 at least?? when he goes down who are you going to bring in, becaues after Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine,we have C.James,26, Jo-Jo Reyes,23,Jair Jurrjens,22, Jeff Bennett,27,and in the Minors just in case, the former 14 game winner Ryan Drese,32, HECK we’re taking 10 avalible STARTING PITCHERS to Spring Training, WANT MORE DEPHT THAN THAT!!!
I dont see the Mets have that much after Santana,Maine and Perez.And we all now the INCONSISTENCIES the last two have.
IN MAINE AND PEREZ YOU TRUST!!!!
By ATL
February 1, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
DOB- Is Camp Roger open to fans or is it strictly players and media?
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Kevin, all those no names you just mention could be package to get you a real MLB starter and contend NOW…like the METS did. Your talking “ifs” and on pitchers that have no MLB track record. Good luck on that because you do pull great minor league talent out your arse, but right about now with the METS rotation, its really doesnt matter.
By JasonInMaine
February 1, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
I am excited for the season to start. I think the Braves have a great chance this year, especially if they can get a healthy Hampton in the rotation. DOB, if James can’t go; give us your prediction of who will win the 5th spot. I have a feeling that Jurrjens, but I know they are pretty high on Jo-Jo.
When I first heard the Mets got Johan, I was PO’d…mostly because I thought they were the team to beat. They are good no doubt, but I like our chances.
By The Flushing Will Not Stop
February 1, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
It’s cold and overcast most of the time and the air smells like rancid milk here in NYC, but suddenly my life has meaning: we got Johan Santana, the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball. I predict that in 2008 Johan will win 50 games, Pedro will win 45, Maine will win 35, Perez 35, and El Duque 25. That’s 190 wins which should be good enough to clinch the division. Jose will hit at least 80 home runs and steal about 300 bases, and so will David, only he will hit more home runs. That big contract Johan got instantly makes the 2008 Mets the greatest team in baseball history.
By Bops
February 1, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Signing Tex long term will put the fear right back to the mets. I’ll take Texiera in the lineup everyday over a pitcher that plays once every 5 days.
By David O'Brien
February 1, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
ATL, just players and media. Barely enough room in the indoor batting cages for just that many folks.
By bravesfan
February 1, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
DOB, who are you picking in the Super Bowl, and what’s going to be the score?
By Metropolitan Man
February 1, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Let the Mantra begin. “We dont care what the METS are doing, we just have to take care of our business.” We all know what that ‘business “is, hoping to get that wild card because there is no way to make up for this 5 game hole we are in before pitchers and catchers even report!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
By JT
February 1, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Met Man
Ime going to let the Playing to all the TALKING!!!. See ya on April 4.
By ATL
February 1, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info DOB
By Cheap Seats
February 1, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
Bummer about Chuck James. Absolute bummer. Must be horrible for him in his mind, playing the denial game.
I remember when I heard a horrible, horrible pop in my right shoulder playing intramural football in college trying to give someone the Heisman stiffarm. Horrific. I couldn’t tell the coach because I wasn’t allowed to play any other sport besides baseball. I had already received enough hell from the coach and been suspended the year before when I broke my ankle playing pickup basketball.
I tried to hide the bum shoulder but then the shoulder separated when I swung during a scrimmage game one day and was dangling like a broken mannequin arm as I was running to first. When I was trying to pull a Riggs from Lethal Weapon and pop it back into place while standing on first, the coach finally caught on.
The arm was never the same. Career and dreams were kaput. The aura of invincibility for a very stupid reckless teen gone in a flash. A stupid meaningless freaking football game.
The Chuckster ain’t going through the same thing physically but I can relate to the denial game you play with your head and body because you never want to let that dream die.
Keep dreaming, fighting, and believing Chuckster. The Braves need ya. You too Hampton.
By wiki
February 1, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Yeah, met man is right. The Mets just signed a baseball player that puts his pants on one leg at a time. We Braves’ fans should just hang it up. We have no cause to even concern ourselves with the Braves this season. There’s so much other stuff to deal with anyway (the economy, global warming, etc). We should just shut this blog down since the Braves are not worthy of our discussion. Wait a second…..what would met man do with his long blogless weeks and months ahead?
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
Pitchers and innings pitched: NAME IP
BRAVES Smoltz: 205.2 Hudson: 224.1
Glavine: 200.1 Hampton: - James: 161.1
Jurrjens: 30.2 Reyes: 50.2 Bennett: 13.0 Carlyle 107.0
METS Santana: 219.0 Martinez: 28.0 Maine: 191.0 Perez: 177.0 Hernandez: 147.2 Pelfrey: 72.2
According to last year’s stats, the Mutts have enough starting pitching on the depth chart to average 5.15 innings per game, whereas the Bravos have 5.82 NOT COUNTING the fact that at least THREE (Davies, Cormier, He Who Must Not Be Named) of last year’s back of the Ro’ guys, who got a significant number of starts, are no longer with the franchise. That adds up to an extra 80 or so innings needed from the bullpen, and oh, by the way, does anyone happen to know how deep Flushing’s bullpen is?
By Springsteen's Santa Ana
February 1, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
Screw this Santana talk. Let’s go with a great song by Springsteen called Santa Ana:
From the tin rooftop the little boy did watch The procession down through town Through the museum where Daniel whupped the Devil With them boys from the underground Where the Giants of Science fight for tight control Over the wildlands of New Mexico Sam Houston’s ghost’s in Texas fighting for his soul And the townsfolk rest uneasy beneath the guns of Kid Cole And the kid says: “Hey, where’s Santa Ana He who could romance the dumb into talking Take a chance with me tonight, my contessa, If it don’t work out I ain’t lame, I can walk” Now some folks think cancer’s taken to the streets of this town But Sandy eats her candy and then lays her money down Them cats are in from the canyons to strut their stuff in town But there’s only secret sinners here Lord, there’s only secret thieves Only a fool would try to save What the desert chose to leave And hey there senorita, With your playboys in their Spanish bandanas French cream won’t soften those boots, baby French kisses will not break your heart
Oh painted night set free with light Glows outside the Rainbow Saloon Matching braces with a Spanish lady ‘Neath a graduation moon No more colleges, no more coronations Some punk’s idea of a teenage nation Has forced Santa Ana to change his station From soldier to cartoon And the Giants of Science spend their days and nights Not with wives, not with lovers, but searchin’ for the lights They spotted in the desert on their helicopter flights Just to be lost in the dust and the night Hey my Contessa, in your juke joint rags you always bring candy for the kids Come waltz with me tonight senorita ‘Cause only fools are alone on a night like this
By N8
February 1, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Hey Mets trolls…..a couple of questions for you.
What ON EARTH would you do if Santana got hurt? Why are you guys better off than the Twins, who couldn’t get to the WS with Santana?
It appears to me that just a couple of weeks ago, you guys had NO ROTATION. While you are for sure better in that department, with this trade, Santana will ONLY pitch in around 35 of your games.
Who’s gonna toe the slab, in the other 127? Pedro? ROFLMFAO! Puuuuuleeeeez. Oliver Perez and his “breakout season” last year? Remember Jaret Wright? He had a “breakout” season for us a few years back too. I want to see him repeat it.
Where with us, even WITHOUT Hampton (and knowing who exactly fills out our 4-5 spots), we know EXACTLY what we are going to get (barring injury), with Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine.
Beyond Santana, what can you “guarantee” me, based on a LONG track record, (not just a flash in the pan season)???
Even with Santana, our top three is better than your top three.
Period.
And if Hampton (who has about as much chance at pitching 150+ innings as Pedro does), is healthy, your top four AINT EVEN CLOSE.
You can say it was just like when we added Maddux to our team in 1993, but it’s NOT CLOSE. We ALREADY had the best pitching staff in MLB in 1992, THEN added the reigning Cy Young winner.
You just took a 13 game winner (Glavine) off your staff and added a 15 game winner.
No disrespect, but this move helps you LONGTERM, way more than it improves your club short-term. Which is very similar to what the Maddux signing did for us in 93. Charlie Leibrandt is who Maddux replaced. In 1992 Maddux won 20 games for the Cubs, Leibrandt won 15 games for us, and until we added McGriff at the deadline in 93, it didn’t do us a DAMN bit of good.
So, while I can appreciate your excitement about adding Johan to the your staff (I surely would be), it’s not nearly as scary for me, as a Braves fan, as if you would have added him while keeping Glavine at the same time.
It should be a fun season. But like I said, if he goes down, then what? If Smoltz goes down, we STILL have Hudson. If Hudson goes down, we STILL have Glavine. If Johan goes down, you have Pedro (typed while giggling), if Pedro goes down…… you’ve got BIG TROUBLE.
By Ippississim
February 1, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Bullpen and spot starters, I mean. I’m not even sure how many starts the six Mets starters I listed combined for last year. I’m pretty sure they’re going to be up the creek at some point in the season, though, whereas the Braves have more than enough to get by.
By Kev
February 1, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
Hey Met Man
Have you ever seen John Maine’s career stats???? 23-19, 4.19 ERA, 324 IP,59 G, 151 ER,47 HR,276 SO???
DUDE!!! YOU DONT EVEN WANT TO KNOW OLIVER PEREZ’s. YOUR COUNTING on a BUNCH of NOBODYS!!!! after your ALMIGTHY SANTANA.perez??? El Duque???,Maine??? Pedro???? the guy hasnt pitched for a year, he’s more rusty than my grandmother. and dont even mention PELFREY…he’s just MINOR LEAGUE TALENT that your going to use in a trade, to fill the LF,when Alou or Endy go down or the 2B if Castillo goes down, or RF…you name it… you dont have the DEPTH WE HAVE!!!!!
By SNIPER-69
February 1, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
If last year Glavine, El Duque, Maine, Perez and Pelfrey, Sosa, Sele, Ho Park were better than the braves starters then how can Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque/Pelfrey not be an improvement??? Are you brave fan saying they won’t exceed the 88 win they got last year?? I’m thinking at minimum they’re at least five games better. That’s 93 wins which should at worst make the wild card. Of course I think they’re at least 10 games better which wins the division but you guys act like the Mets are just a .500 team. C’mon get real.
By mr baseball
February 1, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Lots of defensiveness on here re: Santana signing. Not that many big bucks free agent pitchers have been worth the dough. He might be, but then again…
Optimism is the popular choice from fans going into Spring Training, but here’s a Rudy Giuliani scenario ($40 million, 1 delegate) for the Braves’ pitching staff.
Smoltz’s right elbow finally blows up.
Glavine is done at 41.
Hampton takes his damaged arm and $15 mil salary and never throws another pitch in the majors.
Chuckie is injured/ineffective for most/all of the season.
Braves’ rotation: Hudson, Jurrgens, Reyes, Bennett, Carlyle/Travis Smith/Kevin Barry/Jason Shiell/Bruce Chen/Damian Moss.
Yates & Boyer break down from overuse. None of the lefties are nearly as good as Mahay. Or even Burger King. Soriano gets about 1 save opportunity a week.
We can always hope that Pedro and El Duque’s arms fall off, O.Perez crashes and burns and their closer joins Smoltz in the market for a new elbow.
Can’t wait for the pitchers and catchers to report and start pulling hammies and blowing out rotator cuffs.
By BosnianBaller
February 1, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Any word on Will Ohman.I’m exited about B.Jones.He had real good numbers in the minors and adding muscle certainly will help him in the bigs.
By Chop Chop
February 2, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I somehow think the Mets’ rotation will end up being okay. We’ve finished third two years in a row, so any legit trash-talking is going to have to wait until after we start kicking the Mets around all damn season.
Go Braves.
By David O'Brien
February 2, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
Ohman wasn’t at camp today. Neither were the back-end-of-rotation candidates other than James.
Not sure if Jurrjens, Reyes or Bennett will be in camp. It’s totally voluntary, and winter-ball guys and some foreign guys tend not to come until the end of the camp, if they come at all.
By Ippississim
February 2, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Total 2007 starts —- BRAVES Smoltz 32 Hudson 34 Glavine 34 Hampton — James 30 Carlyle 20 Jurrjens 7 Reyes 10 Bennett 2
combined starts 169METS Santana 33 Martinez 5 Maine 32 Perez 29 Hernandez 24 Pelfrey 13
combined starts 136What does this suggest will happen at some point?
By joebrave
February 2, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Idiots!!!! Stupid Mutts fans,If I were You I would be Pi$$ed off ,about my uture,no Farm Help Left,,,,,Good Job Minnihaha!!!
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
Well, Bobby Cox has a voluntary decision to make about who will be starting in the fourth and fifth slots.
They might want to get their butts into camp since none of them showed much of anything last season. From what I have seen out of the bottom of the Braves rotation, they could all use an extra two weeks of learning.
The good pitchers: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James - all there.
The ragtag scrubs vying for that fourth and fifth spot might want to show up.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 2, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Sniper.. How do you figure the Mets pitching staff was better than the Braves last year? Braves were 3rd in theNL in ERA and allowed less total runs than the mets. Braves pitching was better than the mets last year even though Maine and O Perez turned in career years. Maine looks like he is going to be good. Solid numbers and improving. But are you betting O Perez puts up an ERA under 4.00? Or do you think he’ll post above a 5.85 and 6.5 like he did in 2005 and 2006. Perez had 2 real good years 2004 and 2007. His career ERA is 4.43, which Perez will show up in 2008, I’m betting the bad one.
GO BRAVES….
By nymets fan
February 2, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
hey p**, why would you include Carlyle in your 2008 totals? He won’t start a game for the braves this year. So when you take out his 20 starts, all of a sudden those totals look a little more even.
By ColoradoBravesFan
February 2, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
My previous post wasn’t clear. In 2007 Braves were 3rd in the NL in team ERA at 4.11 Mets were 7th with a 4.26 ERA. Braves allowed 733 runs, just ahead of the Mets with 750 runs allowed.
Braves offese and Mets offense were a virtual tie last season. Braves team BA .275, Mets BA .275. A 3 way tie for 2nd in the NL with the Dodgers. Braves 3rd in the NL with 810 runs barely outscored the mets Mets who had 804.
What does all this mean…My guess is three way dogfight for the NL east title. Because the Phillies are going be tough again.
Go Braves
By jon712
February 2, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this
A Hunter Thompson tattoo?? As your attorney, I’d advise you to consume mass quantities.
I saw Hunter talk around 1980 at UGA, dark glasses, cigarette holder in his hand, and a bottle of Wild Turkey by his side. At the end, he took questions. Some high school senior engaged in a long soliloquy, wondering what he should do with his life. When the kid finished, Hunter looked at him, flicked his cigarette, and said, “You’re doomed.” A true hero in search of the American Dream.
By Ippississim
February 2, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this
nymets fan I included Carlyle because he’s still on the roster for this year, therefore, if someone goes down due to injury or if the Braves need another option for a fifth starter, he’s still there. Those weren’t projected numbers, they were 2007 totals. If one of the September callups wins the fifth spot, they’ll obviously get more starts than last year, so we’re still not in danger of running out of starting pitchers. Fact is, the Braves have 8 starters on their official depth chart, and the Mets have 6. The Braves also still have a good crop of other options in the minors if needed, whereas the Mets will probably be scrambling to buy someone at the trade deadline, when it’s a seller’s market and the pool is at its thinnest.
By uga-brave
February 2, 2008 4:01 AM | Link to this
braveheart, LEW.
seen your posts
on that other blog.
William Wallace great peace of journalism, which i am no part of.
enjoy the dark side or the stupid side but i hope you, lew, flange, chris klob. dont quit giving your wisdom or lack of wisdom here.
look i like cake, so does everybody else.
pretty much a rookie but i read everything. carolina lady i bow down. you are a sweetheart.
saw gill’s pictures and lew’s pictures.
no suprises.
lew, you are younger then i thougt you were.
okay, ATHENS boy i loved the 40 watt, i loved the uptown lounge, i loved steverinos, or sonS of ITALY .
EITHER WAY LEW, DONT QUIT FIGHTING THEM, BEcause no matter what bobby valentine IS STIIL LURKING.
‘
By nOLIE
February 2, 2008 4:36 AM | Link to this
And when he confides that his shoulder is still a bit sore some days … well, I’ve got my doubts about him and that shoulder, let’s just put it that way.DOB
yeah, not good news. shoulders are scarier than elbows for the most part any more. Even at his best I don’t count on Chuckie as any more that a decent 4th starter, but I’d hate to see him have longterm injury problems that might threaten his career. Good luck to him.
By Cleanuphitter16
February 2, 2008 4:50 AM | Link to this
It’s remarkable how the addition of Santana apparently also makes Pedro a healthy Cy-Young probable again, Orlando a 200-inning machine, Perez a dependable #3, Maine a proven MLB starter, and Wagner the new “Mo” in NY. Mets added Santana…great. They had too. Without him they had no chance this season. But how does adding Santana make the Mets the immediate heir to the WS throne as most of the idiots on ESPN and CNNSI (and of course the Mets trolls here) say it does? Braves are adding Glavine and (probably) Hampton in place of last year’s #4 and #5 disasters. You can’t honestly tell me that isn’t every bit as big, from an overall win/loss standpoint, as NY actually getting one guy who can legitimately pitch against Hudson, Smoltz or Glavine (and maybe Jurrjens, if he turns out to be as good as he looks like he might be…kid can THROW) on any given day.
Ok, one day a week the Mets are now probably the best team in the NL East. But how does adding Santana make all the other issues just go away for 162 days? It’s just funny to read the “Mets vs. God, who would win now?” debates that are everywhere now because they got one pitcher (and gave up what little they had left in the minors to do it.)
Look, Santana doesn’t make Delgado hit, Pedro’s shoulder heal, Orlando young, Perez reliable, Maine proven, Schneider hit over .215, Wagner not choke at least 12 times this season, Reyes grow up, Castillo’s knees work again and steal again, etc, despite what ESPN seems to believe as they drool over this trade (as they do anytime a NY team throws the bank and all their prospects at the next free-agent-to-be all-star.)
Honestly, I’m more worried about the Phillies this year. Like the Braves, their lineup is young and very, very talented. They have depth. The Met’s are, quite frankly, old, and have no depth whatsoever. And when pieces start to break (pick an old guy…Alou? Delgado? Pedro? Orlando? Wagner? He IS pushing 37…) who do they replace them with? If you’re gonna dog on ATL for Chipper’s annual trip(s) to the DL you have to at least admit that the Met’s will probably have twice the number of DL visits this season overall than the Braves do, but ATL has depth…and LOTS of it. At EVERY position, including SP.
But, apparently, now that God has come back to earth at Shea and His left-arm will be blessing the Mets all season, all other weaknesses that existed all winter are eliminated. Crown the Mets now, why even play out the season? I mean, it’s only logical, right?
By Matt
February 2, 2008 6:03 AM | Link to this
I love how fans of a team that pulled off the biggest choke job ever in September have the stones to be so arrogant about winning the division. After that, do you REALLY think you’ll just ail to the title?? Answer this Met fans, what are YOU going to do if ANY of your big-time starters gets hurt?? You just gutted your farm system to get Santana, so your depth isn’t exactly the greatest in baseball. Braves fans should worry more about the Phillies - they won the division last year, not the chokers in NY.
By ncscoots
February 2, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this
DOB’s notes just go to show that we fans tend to forget a little factoid when we are sizing up the coming season…players change. We look at what the players were like last year when forging our analyses, and many of them AREN’T those players. Moylan with a changeup? Illegal. More upper-body strength for Frenchy? So much for the power outage. Boyer’s legs are stronger? More drop-and-drive for a power pitcher. All unaccounted for in all our blogging January theses.
We know very little about those offseason changes (and, heck, we on the blog probably know more than most), and those changes in players can and do completely change the perspective on the ability of those players to perform in the upcoming season. Heck, this year, going to his left might be KJ’s greatest defensive STRENGTH, for all we know.
So, team matchups, and roster comparisons, and all our usual folderol, well, they make for a fun blog, LOL. Looking forward to seeing enough of the actual strengths and weaknesses of the team this spring to form a reasonable opinion of their chances!
By I've Fallen And I Can't Get Up
February 2, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
Cleanuphitter16 makes some very good points. Johan will certainly help, but the central problems ailing the Mets will not go away. Aside from Jose and David who are young and blue chip, and Carlos Beltran who is very good but seldom great, let’s look at the rest of the cast. Delgado is old and in steep decline, Castillo hobbles where he once ran, Moises is 40+ and is good when he’s limited to a 300AB season, Shawn is no longer a full-time outfielder, Schneider is ok defensively, but can’t hit, Pedro will once again be the ace of the DL, Maine looks to be above average, Perez is erratic and cannot be counted on, El Duque used to baby sit for Julio Franco in the 1940’s, Billy Wagner is good but no longer dominant, and the rest of the bullpen is average on a good day. It’s easy to understand why the fans of a team that in 2007 choked like no other regular season team in history would be excited about a pitcher like Johan, but their problems from 2007 have not gone away, they’ve just gotten OLDER.
By LivininAL
February 2, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the updade! Not rushing judgement or maybe I am.. Hampton not choosing to participate makes me think hmmm..
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
You call the Mets old, overated, prone to injury ect ect. You throw out stat after stat to prove the braves are a better team. BUT, I have yet to read one brave fan post the most important stat of all, wins and losses. The Mets won 88 games last year and the braves 84. In the end isn’t that the most important stat?? So yes the Mets have holes and questions going into every season like most teams do. But this time last year there were questions too. Will Alou play 140 games? will Maine and Perez hold their own in the rotation. Will the bullpen hold up? The braves have many questions too. We proved to be better than the braves last year even with all those question. So 2008 is nothing new. We will go out there and play the games to prove the Mets are the better team……again.
By richbrave
February 2, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
Do any of you guys go onto the Mets blogs and waste their time like they do ours? If any of you regulars do please put out the e-mail addresses. Let’s show up in NY in advance and blister the bums. We’ll get our own Bronx Cheer going but from south of Brooklyn.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
All the Mets fans can chew on this. The Mets rotation has two former twenty game winners. The Braves have four. I rest my case.
By woogidy
February 2, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
nice post cleanuphitter. Keep it coming. I agree. Johan is one pitcher. This is going to be good for the Braves, because honestly, if we can’t beat him a few times this season, how are we going to beat guys like Beckett, Dice-K, Peavey, etc. in the playoffs? Plus, this makes for some great showdowns at Turner Field. Can’t wait to see Smoltz/Hudson vs. Santana, WHich we’ll more than likely see on Saturday or Sunday in Week 1.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Last year the braves had two 20 game winners. Did they win the division? Did they come in 2nd? No, they came in 3rd…..Chew on that.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Here’s something more to chew on Coach. The Rockies didn’t have any former 20 game winner and went to the world series. So I think your point is worthless.
By Overlord
February 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
OOOOOOOppppppppppsssssssss, judgement day is here, Niels Boor is here (or is it Niels Boring). Please god Niels forgive me if it aint to much to ask.
BORING !!!!!!!!!!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
sniper , thanks for that EXTREMELY narrow minded one season perspective. I really appreciate it.
By Overlord
February 2, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
If having 20 game winners is not important i wonder why the mets have signed recently PEDRO, GLAVINE, HAMPTON, SANTANA, just to mention a few. And why have they gone after every single 20 game winner there has been out the as free agent or in trading block last decade…..?????????
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
FRANK WREN , THIS IS FOR YOU.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1703885
By wiki
February 2, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
The Mets won 88 games last year and the braves 84. In the end isn’t that the most important stat??
Doesn’t mean much if the Phillies won 89 and the Rockies won 90. At least they played in October.
Who cares?
Go find a Cardinals blog and spew about how the Mets won 97 games in ‘06 and the Cards only won 83. That’ll be fun.
By jkosnett
February 2, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
I don’t get this about the Mets not having pitching depth. Aaron Heilman could be a starting pitcher again, especially if Duaner Sanchez returns, and Jorge Sosa is okay as a fill-in. That’s on top of the six starters they have, counting Mike Pelfrey, who isn’t at all proven to be a bust and is healthy. I submit the Mets’ problems are at the corner outfield positions and possibly first and second base, though Delgado on the decline is still a reasonable asset and Castillo basically needs some rest. It’s a formidable team and while that collapse was indeed epic, one of the primary villains now once again sports a Braves jersey. And let’s not forget that Santana now gets to pitch six times against Philadelphia, a left-handed hitting club. If anyone thinks the Mets won’t be fired up to beat the Phils silly in 08 after 10 straight losses last year, watch and see. I can see all three of the teams winning 90 games again.. and two of them in the playoffs.
By jkosnett
February 2, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
I don’t get this about the Mets not having pitching depth. Aaron Heilman could be a starting pitcher again, especially if Duaner Sanchez returns, and Jorge Sosa is okay as a fill-in. That’s on top of the six starters they have, counting Mike Pelfrey, who isn’t at all proven to be a bust and is healthy. I submit the Mets’ problems are at the corner outfield positions and possibly first and second base, though Delgado on the decline is still a reasonable asset and Castillo basically needs some rest. It’s a formidable team and while that collapse was indeed epic, one of the primary villains now once again sports a Braves jersey. And let’s not forget that Santana now gets to pitch six times against Philadelphia, a left-handed hitting club. If anyone thinks the Mets won’t be fired up to beat the Phils silly in 08 after 10 straight losses last year, watch and see. I can see all three of the teams winning 90 games again.. and two of them in the playoffs.
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Just wanted to clarify something about my earlier post: I understand, like DOB was saying, that JoJo, Bennett, Hampton, Jurrjens have all been working really hard all winter playing winter ball or working out or are from foreign countries, so they have probably been told there is no sense in coming in two weeks early but, IMO, they sure as hell should be there.
Hampton, James, Jurrjens, JoJo, and Bennett, IMO, hold the entire 2008 season in their hands. We know what the lineup will do. We know what Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson, Soriano, Moylan will do. The bench will figure itself out somehow (whether it is good or not).
The biggest question on the Braves are pitchers 4 through 10. It’s a little disturbing that most of them are not in camp right now.
Ugabrave, don’t worry. I ain’t going anywhere. It’s time to put aside my erratic gloom and doom outlooks from this winter. These Mets fans are ticking me off with their cluelessness.
By flange1
February 2, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Coach,
Agree totally with your 9:49. That is the type of guy the braves need even if it means dumping Thorman….
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Overlord…I never said a 20 game isn’t nice to have in your rotation. I was referring to a post by Coach which implied having former 20 game winners assures a playoff spot every year. Of course a proven successfull pitcher improves your chances.
By Shaun
February 2, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Re: Chuck James and Chad Billingsley, it’s pretty clear what I said. James had more quality starts in ‘07. Nothing more. Nothing less. Come on all you who think I was saying James is better than Billingsley. Use the brains I think you have.
By Daveinzona
February 2, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Coach @ 9:45 — You do realize that article was from 2004,don’t you.
By SNIPER-69
February 2, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Wiki, I was comparing the Mets and braves. 88 wins are better than 84even in your neck of the woods….isn’t it?
By woogidy
February 2, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
The delirious Mets fans think one player makes all the difference. This would be true if they hadn’t lost their one of their best starters of last season in Tom Glavine. You could line up the players and pitchers if you wanted to and say “Braves are better here”, “Mets are better there”, but this looks to be evenly matched. Smoltz or Santana? Hudson or Pedro? Glavine or Oliver Perez? Hampton or John Maine? We could go on and on. The bullpens are pretty even, though the Mets depth is a concern. Everyone seems to forget an important part of baseball is defense. The Braves BLOW away any other team in the east away in this area. Schneider is, IMO, an upgrade over Lo Duca, and Kotsay obviously a downgrade from Andruw, but everywhere else? Braves defense is top notch.
By wiki
February 2, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Wiki, I was comparing the Mets and braves. 88 wins are better than 84even in your neck of the woods….isn’t it?
Better? What did the Mets get out of that deal? A free bag of doughnuts?
They won more games, true. I want a WS championship team. I have no problem with the Mets winning 14 more games than the Braves during the season as long as the Braves are playing deeper into October. You should know that drill from two years ago…..even in your neck of the woods.
By Braveheart
February 2, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
The problem with you Mets fans is that you have not upgraded your offense. Last year, your second baseman had a .348 OBP and a .405 SLG at second base. Do you really expect Castillo to have better than a .360 OBP and a .370 SLG? Your team is worse at second offensively.
Last year, the Mets had a .309 OBP and a .410 SLG from catcher. Do you really expect Schneider to do more than an anemic .325 OBP and .330 SLG?
Excepting his 2005 season, Carlos Delgado has been in a continuous decline throughout his thirties, finally culminating in that horrible season last year. Delgado is shot.
Wright is about as good as he is ever gonna be. Jose Reyes is the only one who you would expect to possibly get better. Everyone else is either shot or hit their peak.
The Braves have Frenchy, Escobar, McCann, Kelly Johnson, Brandon Jones, who all have upside, have not hit their primes, and are not anywhere near shot. The Braves have Tex in a contract year. The Braves have Chipper being protected for the first time since 2000 with the Big Cat by a legit cleanup hitter. Watch out!
And before you bring up Kotsay, what Kotsay is replacing is the woeful .258 OBP and .394 SLG of Scott Thorman. It will be extremely hard for Kotsay to be much worse than Thorman was last season.
The Braves scored about 5.5 runs a game after getting Tex after scoring 5 runs a game before Tex. The Braves have the potential to score about 900 runs in 2008. The Mets will be lucky to get to 800 runs.
And before you get all giddy about Santana, do you really think Santana is gonna be much better than the 42-24 the Mets were the last two seasons when Tom Glavine started for those chokers in Flushing?
By Supes
February 2, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Leave it to Mets fans to claim the division title in February…or wait, didn’t they do that last year as well? How did that workout for you Mets fans? Did you enjoy hanging your division banner from 2007?
Oh, I get it now…you have Santana…so I guess the rest of the NL east should just forfeit the division race…in the immortal words of one Dennis Green…”Do you want to go ahead and crown your asses?”
Unbelievable. I agree with the bloggers who mention the Phils as the top dog in the NL east, or the biggest threat to the Braves. Phils won the division, have tons of offensive firepower and were decimated by injuries in their starting rotation last year. If they are healthy this year, they should be the odds on favorites to win the NL east. Not the Mets or the Braves.
Braves have more depth in the starting rotation than any other team in the division. They get Gonzo back by the all star break and add a devastating lefty closer/set up man, which will be like adding a free agent midseason.
It’s going to be an exciting race…Mets fans better not hang that 2008 Division champ banner yet!
By McFann
February 2, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Sniper’s so rude, he doesn’t even capitalize BRAVES.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
February 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Daveinzona , Yes I do and I always do my homework. Greg Norton is still a good player. He is a switch hitter , plays 1B , 3B and the outfield.
His 2007 season was pretty much lost to injury : Norton, who’s contract option was declined in November, struggled in 2007, primarily due to injuries, and his numbers suffered accordingly. He had offseason surgery to repair a painful le