Braves

By Didn't Read Closely

January 29, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Hey, DOB — why no lyrics?

By Didn't Read Closely

January 29, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Just kidding. Welcome back, Carroll!

By PatioDaddio

January 29, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

A Frank Wren favorite (Bennett) is out of options. There is a strong possibility he will be the Big O (Villarreal) replacement as the long guy. Bennett has a nice showing late last season and was very good in winter ball.

Boyer is out of options as well, so it should be an interesting battle and some tough decisions.

By Jake

January 29, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Let’s play some baseball!!!!!!

By Jake

January 29, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Let’s play some baseball!!!!!!

By FSSikes

January 29, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

Go Braves!

By FSSikes

January 29, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

Go Braves!

By poop

January 29, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

Poop joke

Mets = poop

Phillies = poop

David Wright < poop

ha ha!

By BabyGoatEater

January 29, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

I heard somewhere that JJJ might be a good set-up guy. Interesting. I don’t think it would make sense. Then again, if he can be a rare guy that can do both……interesting……

By Carter Holmes

January 29, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

Here at NC State we call them a Wolfpacker. I will hopefully be attending some spring training games in my last spring break from good ol NCSU….Go Braves!!!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 29, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

Carroll , don’t be fretting over the bullpen. It’s in fine shape. Bullpens are like the wind , they come and they go. Soriano has the closer position covered and that is what really matters.

As you have already pointed out , five of the seven spots are all but nailed down. Then there is Chris Resop , the one great pickup made by Frank Wren that no one is talking about. The other veteran in the mix is Blaine Boyer.

The Braves have eight viable starters , one of them will probably end up in the bullpen as the long man/spot starter.

Atlanta has 24 pitcher on the 40 man , of which roughly 18 to 20 can be counted on to contribute sometime this season.

looking at the depth chart , the Braves bullpen is twelve to fourteen pitchers deep. So believe me when I say this , the pitching will not be an issue in 2008.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 6:34 AM | Link to this

Well, there’s plenty of gas coming out the bullpen for sure, given the projected members, and that’s encouraging. As long as one of the lefties produces and Bobby doesn’t start throwing Moylan-Yates-Soriano out there with five-run leads, the bullpen should be good to excellent.

In any event, I still think Hampton is more of a key than most allow. I know, Braves aren’t counting on him, blog’s not counting on him, yes, yes, yes. But Hampton, even at 85%, would still be the best 4 in either league, or close to it, and that would take a little pressure off Glavine to produce the team wins needed from a 3 (about which I am only cautiously optimistic). A solid Hampton takes the rotation from good to very good, maybe even excellent.

BTW, although I have said that CJ might lose his rotation spot if Hampton is able to go, I’ve never said he should be traded if that occurs. I think I may have given that impression in some earlier posts, but not my intent.

By SpringFeaver

January 29, 2008 6:53 AM | Link to this

We have no problems here. Its a given that Cuevas, Mortan and Schreiber are minor leaguers and are just being protected. The starting lineup will be and I would bet on this one, Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and James with Jurrjens and Reyes heading back to minor league ball and Bennett in the pen for long relief.

Now why they have Lerew on the roster is beyound me. Hes not a major league pitcher in either the starter or reliever area. The kid plain out cant handle majors. We could release him now and he would not have a impact anywhere.

One thing I know is that one of these pen guys is going to have to step in and set the stage for a great year. Once that stage is set then everyone just goes and does their job.

By Jeff321

January 29, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

The Braves need to boot Mark Yates. Because I’d rather see an “unproven” fail than him. Why do the Braves always need to have a loser in the bullpen? Yates is nothing but Kolb + Reitsma.

By Rob

January 29, 2008 7:40 AM | Link to this

NCscoots, you think hampton is the best number 4 starter in baseball even though he hasnt pitched in 2 and 1/2 years. hahahaha, thanks for the laugh. he is also like 36 years old now not 25.

By livininAL

January 29, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Early Feb. anticipation! Everyone feels good, regardless of surgeries,age, rehab, etc. The Braves actually have 6 potential starters and more relief than slots and with some arms left down on the farm. Every team is tied for 1st place, let’s stay there. GO Braves!

By livininAL

January 29, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

Jeff21, Ummm I dont know much about Mark Yates….

By Jim H.

January 29, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

Chuck James tends to pitch very well early in games. The first time or two through the order he’s good, but then about the fifth or sixth inning it frequently unravels for him. I don’t know if the hitters figure him out, or if he runs out of gas or what —— But given that fact, I think he would be the perfect candidate to fill Villareal’s long relief role (where he would only have to go two or three innings once or twice a week).

By Glenn Horne

January 29, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Carol - So glad you have the grapefruit league duty. Here are some new pitchers that may make us forget Villereal, Chris Resop, Jeff Ridgeway, Royce Ring. Maybe Lerew and Carlysle could do some bullpen duty, If all our starters (including Hampton) get hot. Welcome back. glennh72

By mantuan

January 29, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Yates, Boyer, and Bennett I am pretty sure are out of options. I think Ring is as well.

Mark Yates is a complete unknown to me. I have never heard of him. Does he have a good fastball?

Going to need a “long relief” guy for a while — and like earlier comments, think this may come from Bennett.

Let Morton, Reyes and Juirjjens sharpen their skills in Richmond.

By Voice of Reason

January 29, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

JimH.: Much of ChuckieJ’s middle inning “unraveling” was due to a slight tear in his rotator cuff last year that has since (supposedly) healed. The discomfort was enough to cause early fatigue as well as an alteration of his mechanics. If he’s healthy, he can be an outstanding bottom of the rotation pitcher. Look for either Jeff Bennett or Blaine Boyer to compete for the long relief role, with one being traded during spring since they’re both out of options. Depth and competition in both the rotation and the bullpen bodes well for Los Bravos.

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

He’s really fretting over Villareal? Seriously? A guy who was used in blowouts? Yeah, thats gonna decide the pennant. The Braves traded away a September callup in Ascanio and a blowout guy in Oscar; released a guy that was the first person sent down and never returned in Paronto; did not resign an injury prone reliever in Dotel and a ok lefty specialist in Mahay. Devine was in Cox’s doghouse, so what have we lost again, really? The Braves have plenty of decent relievers in stock. As long as TYLER Yates doesn’t pitch 80 innings in the first half, he should be effective too.

I’m gonna worry about Hampton, who wins the fifth starter job (I’m hoping for Jurrjens), and who is on the bench, and sleep just fine on the bullpen.

By Niels Boor

January 29, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Mitchie-san—

If you like Mike Hampton, check out this clip from You Tube (I think it still works).

It’s from his appearance in the Mexican league, the one where he strained his hamstring.

PS: I also just returned from Japan a few months ago — I was there four years on the Kanto (kam-pai!!!) Plain.

By ncgary

January 29, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

we could be a majeure force by the time the season begins, check it out some very interesting predictions

By Voice of Reason

January 29, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

I’m pretty excited about this Mark Yates guy. I love it when an unknown comes out of nowhere… (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

By DAP

January 29, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

who’s mark yates?

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Mark Yates was the player to be named later in the Langerhans trade.

By Lew

January 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Carroll-Welcome back to the warm weather sports.

Mitchie San-Where you been, son? Still chasing those Fear Snakes on the other side of the world, or cruising Tokyo?

Mark Yates-Tyler has a brother pitching for the Braves? We have the best and deepest group of pitchers in our divsion. The Phillies just got stronger now that they have a dependable third baseman, but they still have little pitching. The Mets have much less than that.

By DAP

January 29, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

on the last blog i made the statement that chuck james is our 4th best pitcher, which i believe some took issue with. i want to stand by that assertion and explain my reasoning.

our 4th best pitcher aint hampton, not yet anyways. hes been hurt for two years, and we cant depend on him. jojo and jurjens dont have the experience or success that chuck has, so we cant really say they are better than chuck, and whos left? carlyle and bennett? everyone knows chuck is better than these guys. younger, more successful, ect.

my point is, we cant trade our 4th best pitcher when we are losing hampton and glavine after this year. we are really gonna need the depth we have in the future. also, theres no way chuck james isnt in the rotation to start the year, barring injury. take it to the bank.

By Tricky Dick

January 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

I’m not understanding why people are counting on Mike Gonzalez for the second half. There was a lot of discussion on this list last year about pitchers coming back from Tommy John surgery. The consensus was that yea they come back after a year but they don’t have their real stuff. It takes a 18 months before a pitcher is really back to normal. So Gonzalez may come back for the second half but I don’t think he’ll be the real Mike Gonzalez until 2009.

By Niels Boor

January 29, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Most people here do miss Bob, Journalist. Mmmmm-kay.

Well, sure. Then feast on this.

Bask in his genius.

Whatever.

By Bo

January 29, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Welcome back Carrol. I agree the Braves (Bobby) miss used Devine and rushed him in the Majors. Put to much pressure on the rookie and destroyed his confidence. He did work his a@@ off the last two years to regain it. I wish him the best and hope the next Mgr. don’t hang him out to dry etc, like BC did. A new year, GO BRAVES!

By Random

January 29, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

DAP—

I’m afraid you’re right — chuck james is our 4th best pitcher.

And that puts an ice-cold black hole in the pit of my stomach.

I really, really, really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope Hampton comes back strong.

He may be as dumb as a bagful of hammers — with the ball in his hand, he’s “single-minded”; without, simply retarded — but he can pitch.

I really wish him the best.

By TURTSNAP

January 29, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Carroll, I agree with you on all the aspects of Joey Devine. Man I felt sorry for him when he gave up that first grand slam, but then to turn around and give up another so quickly, that was devastating.

When the Braves traded him for Kotsay, I was one of the first to say that he needed a fresh start. I hope it does him some good. He won’t be pressured into a closer role right away with Huston Street, and will give him time to build back his confidence on a Major League level. As the A’s tend to do, they will probably deal Street in a year or so, and Devine could become their closer.

Yes, the Braves rushed Devine. I remember that year all too well, with the pitcher from the Brewers tanking on us (he affected me so negatively, that I have barred his name from my memory bank), and the Braves drafted Devine in the first round, already talking that he might be ready come September. Way too much pressure for a young kid!

By GermanBravesFan

January 29, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

WAYNE IN UTAH: I am German, but I have been living in the US since 1988. Never cared for baseball until ‘91 and I have been hooked ever since!! I’ve never been to Ramstein (lived too far from there), but hope that your son enjoys his stay in the land of great beer!

By richbrave

January 29, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

By Bo:

I’ll be an apologist for Cox here. Another way of looking at it. The Braves weren’t in Gwinnett at the time, so maybe Bobby didn’t see all of Devine he should have and relied on reports of his abilities. Then when he saw Joey in person, he felt that if the kid succeeded, he’d have a monster reliefer for years to come. Really, at the ML level its 90% cerebral. Of course, the downside is well documented.

I do feel however the Braves organization owed Devine at that point, and should have made every good-faith effort to improve his psyche. A shrink to improve his approach to the game would have been apropos. And certainly he was looking good here in Richmond last year. I suppose the Braves thought a change would be good for Devine, and it probably will.

BUT,trade him while you can rather than have him run out of options and get nothing for him on the open msrket next year sucks. And that’s one black mark against the Atlanta organization, and not STRICTLY Bobby Cox in my book. They should have backed Devine to the end even if it meant getting NOTHING for him on any basis.

The money Joey got in return was not nearly enough. If his head had been on straight think of the millions he could have earned instead of what he will get for his undeniable talent.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Rob, I said Hampton at 85% or better would be the best 4th starter in either league. Try to keep up.

SpringFever, you would be basing your analysis of Lerew on what? Three starts in the majors while hurt? Good tip. In any event, he’s still rehabbing, so the Braves aren’t going to release him. Thank goodness. If he gets healthy, his sinker and four-seamer will a pleasure to have around.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Coach i got that post; so it is a club house code word….. i suppose it it is a good code word since as i mentioned, B-12 is used to minimize or diminish pain if caused by injury to nerves, like neck pain after car crash with head injury and stuff like that.

Thanks coach.

DAP, i agree with you, right now james is not going to be traded since in 2009 2 of our current lefties might be gone. I like the idea of james in the pen for long relieve.

By CC Rider

January 29, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Springfeaver: The comments you made about Anthony Lerew are either misinformed or in error. The Braves view him quite differently than you do. He has developed into the pitcher they thought had top 3 rotation potential. The pitching coach at AA changed his delivery and he became extremely effective at AAA. The Braves thought he would be the answer to the weak #5 spot in the rotation last season and the first start he pitched well. Unfortunately, He injured his elbow in his next start, did not tell Bobby Cox, tried to pitch at Boston and had to leave early (Bobby was not happy he didn’t tell them of the injury after the 2nd start). He had Tommy John surgery in July and probably will not pitch much if any this year, but he is only 25 and if the surgery is successful and he returns to how he pitched in AAA last year, the Braves will have another pitcher competing for the Hampton and Glavine spots in the rotation in 2009. 2009 Smoltz, Hudson, James, Reyes, Jurjjens, Bennett, Lerew, Morton, Maybe Hampton (If he pitches well and wishes to stay at a reasonable salary. The group coming in the rearview mirror: Hanson, Rohrborough, Locke, Evarts, Rasmus, (My sleeper_Eric Cordier) and Teheran the 16 year old future Ace? My prediction for the pen at the start of the season; Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Yates, Ohman, Boyer and Bennett. Ring will be traded to KC Royals.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Anthony Lerew is recovering from TJ surgery. The Braves have to keep him on the 40 man , those are the rules.

The real question you should be asking is , Why is Buddy Carlyle still taking up a roster spot. He has no future as a Brave. Carlyle is a career minor leaguer who had his cup of coffee and made the most of it.

By coocoo birdfan

January 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Its Tyler Yates, not Mark. The Braves look strong enough to contend for the NL East pennant. Corners are solid, middle infield can hit and run, outfield has cannons at every position and pitching is top three in the national league. Health is always a concern, for EVERYONE, not just the bravos, and we are due for some good ol fashioned luck this year. Go BRAVES!

By Lew

January 29, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Scoots and Random-Yes, Hampton at 85% might be the best number four starter around, but it’s been 2 1/2 years since he pitched. He has had two surgeries, and every time he has taken the mound he has ended up hurt again. 85% is WAY too optimistic. 50% may be too optimistic. Actually, until I see him pitch 5 starts without any physical issues, I am unwilling to count on him in the least. Plan on Chuck at number four (apparently he’s taking the offseason seriously this year) and Jurrjens at number five. Bennett as long reliever and spot starter.

By Greg K.

January 29, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Good preview of Phils in 2008. Said Braves would be in race at the end, but fall short. Nice article.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/28/2008-philadelphia-phillies-looking-to-take-next-step/

By Ron Roberts

January 29, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

When you have, what, 8 starting pitcher options and only 5 rotation spots… you hae plenty of long-relief options, right? You have Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, James, Glavine, Reyes, Jurrjens, bennett all listed on the Braves’ rotation depth chart HERE. While I’m at it, why’s Buddy Carlyle not listed here or on the bullpen chart? Did I miss a transaction?

To the bullpen… I think this is going to be a big year for Tyler Yates. I actually think we may have the makings of the best 1-2-3 punch out of the bullpen if Yates, Moylan and Soriano are used right (and more sparingly than last season). With the rotation castoffs available for long relief, and with Ohman, the potential rise of Royce Ring and Manny Acosta, I think our bullpen will be just fine.

Now about the Mets potentially getting Johan Santana… don’t look now, but that Mets’ rotation would look pretty darned good with his addition, wouldn’t it? between he and Oliver Perez (who had our number last season), a well-rested Pedro, Orlando Hernandez, and John Maine… whew, that’s a good starting five. Their bullpen’s questionable, aside from Wagner and Heilman, and they took a step back at RF, but the Mets are gonna be a good pitching squad to face 18 times this season.

By Ramblin Wrecker

January 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

I was a little leary of the Braves sending Devine out for Kotsay, not that I think it was an uneven deal, just that I thought Devine had the “stuff” to be a great reliever if he could overcome those difficult memories from his rookie season. But as far as losing Villarreal, he was a decent pitcher, but the Braves turned him (and his more than a million dollar salary) into a young OF prospect who can fill in for Kotsay (if his health becomes an issue) and can be a 4th OF if necessary. Plus Anderson could be an attractive trade piece next offseason when Jordan Schaefer is closer to being ready. Dotel would be a nice guy to have out in the pen, but he had unrealistic salary and role expectations given his injury history. Mahay was just a supply/demand loss. Paronto was just not in good enough shape to keep around when you have guys like Boyer and Bennett that are out of options. Plus they still have a guy at AAA that has pitched very well (who typically strikes out at least a batter per inning and walks fewer than he strikes out) if he could stay healthy. Phil Stockman. His numbers have been eye popping. Maybe if he just got a long enough look in Atlanta, he’d stick. The Braves also have a big hard throwing kid, who impressed Bobby Cox and Frank Wren this fall, that might make a run at a roster spot, Charlie Morton. He no-hit an AZ fall league game for 6+ innings before being relieved. So overall, I think the bullpen will be strong, despite the large turnover in faces. Plus having 3 potential 200+ inning eaters in the rotation (and a suitor for the 4th-5th spots, Chuck James who pitched over 160 last season) should make the bullpen even more rested and effective. And if they get anything out of Mike Hampton, they are in the bonus.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, you might be right, smoltz can understand he might be needed to slide down the rotation, and i dont think he will care, he will do what is needed for the team to win. Besides it is Glavine not a rookie or something like that.

I was not discussing it, just wondering. But as you said, everything looks good since we are talking to move smoltz as #3…. that is depth. And if hampton is healthy and goes 4th… well, we will see.

Let the games begin!!!!!!!

By Lew

January 29, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Greg-I don’t know. The Phillies starting pitching (even by their own admission) is spotty at best. Two returning starters with ERA’s well over 5 runs per nine and a bullpen with questionable closer and set up man (lots of health issues with the staff, too). Hamels is great, but like they say, often injured. Moyer is 45 or so. Eaton is basically a joke in that little league stadium.

Two thirds of the Phillies outfield (Burrell-you never know which Burrell will show up) and Jenkins are, again by their own admission, questionable. They will miss Rowand, no matter what they say. He was a sparkplug.

If the Phillies faithful think the Mets will edge them out, they are in for a rude awakening. The Mets are third place material unless they get Santana (which I don’t think will happen) and even then their pitching is thin, the team is old and has major injury concerns.m They have zero depth.

They mention the Braves starting rotation questions, but the Braves still have the best 1-2-3 starting staff in the division and the deepest staff and bullpen in the division, as well.

By Random

January 29, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: Here is my starting rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens, and James (to break up the lefty righty thing). Hampton might start the season in extended Spring Training, if all goes well. Bennett as the Oscar of ‘08.

What say ye, blogsters?

Hampton instead of Jurrjens (AAA for JJJ), precise order still up in the air — otherwise I’m with you.

By Alan

January 29, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Welcome back, Carroll. My concern with the bullpen begins and ends with the closer. Soriano has great stuff and great makeup. What he doesn’t have is great experience as a closer. I think he’ll be fine, but I’m not supremely confident. Who can be at this point? He’s the key without a doubt. The other spots will be fine - there are a lot of good arms out there. As for the rotation, no way are the Braves counting on Hampton - nor should they. If he comes back strong, that would be terrific - he would probably be the best #4 in baseball. The reality is, after Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine it’s a crapshoot for the final two spots among Hampton, James, Reyes, Bennett and Jurrjens. Nobody could possibly know how it’s going to play out. But we’ll all know soon enough.

By Matt

January 29, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

The Bullpen might look spotty…but we have Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, James, Jurrjens, Reyes and Carlyle as starters….so three of those guys COULD be in the bullpen or in the minors….so we have plenty of long and short relief options.

GO BRAVES!

By buddy

January 29, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

i heard there will be a damian moss sighting in atlanta. one last hoorah for d-money. you heard it here first!

By Random

January 29, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Lew—

Well said, and of course you’re right.

I’m just saying that my fingers are crossed, my breath bated, and I’ll be on the edge of my seat for each of those five starts.

By DAP

January 29, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

well theyve got the braves finishing 3rd again…im not sure how anyone can expect the mets to win this division! they finished 2nd last year, and have subtracted form their team since. i just dont get it.

By BTP

January 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Glad Devine is gone…I hate NCSU…Go ECU!! Now I don’t have to pull for him anymore

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

I see the Nationals signed Estrada. I think they will be a much improved team this year; i like some of the moves they’ve made. I’ll look forward to those games more now, between the new ballpark and the young team full of promising players they oughta be tough at times.

By richbrave

January 29, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

BTP:

Don’t guess you like University of Richmond much either. You’ve got a great AD though. Looks like alum Earnie Byner is leaving Washington. Too bad. Great player- great coach. I remember when Frederick College played ECSU in November 1964. Went to Greenville for the game. We got hammered of course, but no hard feelin’s. Go ECee-TSee!! The only good pack is a six-pack.

By Jmart

January 29, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Devine got a bad rap. If you remember correctly,Cox put Devine in at the end of a very close game. Devine did great the 1st inning he threw. That should have been it. Take the kid out after throwing one great inning. Build up his major league confidence slowly. But no, Bobby, who rarely relies on a rookie to over perform sent him out for a 2nd inning. I put it all on Bobby. He mismanaged Devine his very first outing and the result was devastating. By the way for all you CJ haters. Chuck has 22 wins in the last 2 seasons. Lots of teams would love to have a 4th or 5th starter like that.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 29, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know when single game tix go on sale? I will be in Atlanta visiting family and want to purchase tix for the Braves home opener on 31 March against the Pirates.

And I agree our bullpen should be good to excellent this year. There is plenty of depth to cover for injuries and ineffectiveness. For our bullpen to be good, we don’t need to have career years from these guys just the good solid work they have already accomplished at the major league level. I do worry to Moylan will not be able to go 80 games/90 innnings with an outstanding era of 1.80. I believe he will regress somewhat. Hope I’m wrong… GO BRAVES

By N8

January 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Though, I’ve included my opinions into the conversation as well, I think the thing everybody needs to remember when saying things like “Chuck is our (enter # of choice) best starter RIGHT NOW!”, is that it’s still January.

Keep this in mind, in January of 2005, Raul Mondesi was our “best” RF on the roster as well.

RIGHT NOW, based on MLB experience and track record, Chuck is #4 at worst for us.

WHO KNOWS what happens in the spring, or even the first month of the season? Maybe Chuck starts the year as our #4, stinks it up for April, and in the mean time with a month at Richmond, JJJ absolutey tears it up, and steps in, and that will be that.

Hell, I think that Bennett is the wild card in all of this. He looked really good last year at the end, and was pretty much just getting going of of major surgery. Maybe he has a Lance Cormier type of spring and bumps BOTH JJJ and Chuck from the rotation (assuming Hampton is ready to go).

I guess the logical thing to do is let the spring begin, and let the injuries that ARE going to happen, along with how guys look once the games begin, dictate who fill what slot.

To whomever was mentioning Smoltz in the #3 spot in the rotation…that’s not a bad idea, considering he, himself has said his “workload” might not be able to be what it’s been in the past. Even though he very well may end up being our best starter this year, having Hudson as the “#1”, might relieve some of the pressure off of Smoltz to be THE MAN.

By OrlandoFan

January 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

The bullpen had better be strong. With Smoltz and Glavine, I see a lot of 6-inning starting stints. Get the lead and turn it over. If Hampton returns, he would join that duo in an “innings watch” mode. Don’t let them overdo it. Hopefully Hudson and the CHOSEN ONE/TWO will be able to pitching into the 8th and 9th frequently. But Bobby has never been slow with the hook. Sometimes not slow enough. I think Gonzalez return is a real key. Soriano isn’t going to be a 40-save guy, I don’t think. And in late summer, HE likely will need some relief, too. Moylan may get more oppportunities than we expect. Hopefully, this group will be surprising and successful like the group from 2002 (that was the year, right?). What a great performance with career years from so many.

By Braves20

January 29, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

The Braves bullpen will do just fine as long as —- Gonzalez comes back on schedule and can be spotted so as not to tax his arm too early and —- we are able to keep Yates out of tight situations where a gopher ball spells defeat.

By Mitchie-san

January 29, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Niels Boor I couldnt ge the youtube thing to work, just now, but I am sure it wasnt pretty. I am just being extremely optimistic. I would love to have something positive to happen after all this time and money has been spent on him…Or like I said, I am just crazy.

arigato

By Bryan

January 29, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

jmart, in that game bobby was short handed. The two previous games had seen 14ip by the pen. Three relievers had been used earlier in the game. It was the 13th and the pen was depleated. I wouldn’t really blame it on cox… Its the majors … Should he have burned out a regular protecting someone who is supposed to be major league???

By Mitchie-san

January 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Lew I am back in the States and down in Mississippi for about six months. I really miss it over there, but man, its nice to be back in the USA. I will be catching some of the Mississippi Braves games this year and hopefully will contribute a little more to the blog here…

By Luther

January 29, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Is Tanyon Sturtze ready yet or what?;) And I think we should get Ken Ray back; I miss Don Sutton telling his hard-luck story, wait is he gone too?

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Random it is a good way to settle the pitching staff……the way you mentioned.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Anthony Lerew is recovering from TJ surgery. The Braves have to keep him on the 40 man , those are the rules.Coach

Yes, but Braves can move Lerew to 60-day DL to open a spot on the 40-man when they need to add someone at spring training.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Carroll and others… Tell me if you agree with what I’m about to say: If Soriano goes down (or is ridiculously ineffective) in the first 3 months of the season (or before Gonzo gets back) couldn’t you see someone like Acosta or Yates getting a chance to close rather than Moylan? My reasoning for that is Moylan clearly showed last year that he can be effective going 2 innings in a game. Don’t you think Cox would rather keep Moylan as an 8th/sometimes 7th & 8th inning guy? Personally, I feel that is where he is best suited and would help the team the most…

By OrlandoFan

January 29, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

DONC: If the Braves have to rely on Tyler Yates to close, it probably wouldn’t matter anyway. That spells disaster to me. I’d think trade or something more drastic than to go to him. But then you didn’t ask me!

By DAP

January 29, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone moylan also seems to be a good guy to go to in the middle of an innings when youve got guys on. i think he is more effective as what he was used for last year than a closer. i love that our bullpen now has a bunch of guys that can strike you out if they need to. you want to be able to depend on your bullpen to blow a guy away when your team is on the ropes with runners on base. right now, weve got acosta, yates, soriano, and moylan that are all great at getting those strikeouts.

last year, at least a few of the games wickman blew were when he came in with runners on. guys that pitch to contact are NOT the guys you want out there with runners on. you use those guys at the beginning of an inning only. hopefully cox will use these guys appropriately this year.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone i think Acosta is gonna get some chances to save some games, that guys has great stuff. He will only get better and las year he was nearly lights out. Real chance that he becomes closer in 2009 and Soriano gets traded if needed. I prefer Moylan to pitch the 8th and if needed pitch the last out of the 7th and then the 8th. He has done really well as a setup man. The truth is that with Gonzo (if he recovers well), Soriano, Acosta and Moylan, barves games are 7 innings long.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Oh sweet, DOB still comments on Carrol’s blog! Anyway, DOB did you see my question about the closer situation should Soriano go down before Gonzo is healthy? Don’t you think Moylan would stay as the setup man because he can pitch 2 innings?

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Yates is a 6th inning pitcher and a 1 or 2 outs pitcher at best the way i see it. At least thats my judgement from what i saw last year and comparing him with the other 4 which are far superior than him.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

DAP totally agree with you. If you add to those guys there Hampton or James to begin the season you have not a good but a great bullpen and if Gonzo comes back well, it is almost lights out. That is if this 5 guys pitch as expected.

By Jon

January 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Overlord, why is it that Braves games are 7 innings long now, but you mention 4 pitchers?? What are they doing, just getting 1 or 2 outs a piece? At most, they would go a whole inning, making the game 5 innings long.

By KC

January 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

N8: “NOWHERE in that article, did I see the word “vital”.”

N8, “vital” did not appear in his article… it was part of the headline on the main page that described the article.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

OK O’Brien , I knew that already. In addition , the 60 day D.L. can only be utilized if the 40 man roster is full and there is no limit on the number of players per club. Basically , the rule gives MLB teams the flexibility of not having a player (Lerew) who will be out for the duration of the season being counted against the 40 man.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

To whomever was mentioning Smoltz in the #3 spot in the rotation…that’s not a bad idea, considering he, himself has said his “workload” might not be able to be what it’s been in the past.

And some posters here weeks ago brought up the idea of moving him lower in the rotation. But that was included with the idea of trading for a young, top-of-the-rotation pitcher to solidify the starters. Instead, Wren signed Glavine, so the position of counting on Smoltz less, rather than more, is untenable.

By KC

January 29, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

N8: Here was the lead in to that DP article…

“The Mets are expecting plenty of innings from Pedro Martinez, one of 10 players Dayn Perry calls vital to his team’s 2008 chances.”

Again, Kotsay matters. He is important. But he is not vital.

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

I would think Moylan gets first crack at the closer’s role if-heaven forbid-Soriano goes down early. He’s the second best pitcher down there, it only makes sense that he move into the role with Acosta moving into the setup role. This may also depend on how Acosta looks early on.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

The truth is that with Gonzo (if he recovers well), Soriano, Acosta and Moylan, barves games are 7 innings long.

Didn’t about 3000 bloggers make a similar post last year, with different names? As I remember, that plan didn’t work too well.

Bullpen pitchers are most effective when they are playing cards with the bullpen coach, and the starters are keeping them there.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Jon i suppose they are not gonna pitch everyday, dont you think? If dont think the same as i do it is OK with me. And i mentioned 5 pitchers, include hampton or james or jojo there. I said what i said because if used correctly, that bullpen is close to unstoppable. My opinion.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

DonC, I can’t answer that with much certainty at this point. I think Cox would wait to see how guys pitch this spring and to start the season, assuming Soriano doesn’t go down anytime before that.

You never know, someone might have made an adjustment this winter or added a pitch, etc. Or perhaps Acosta takes another step forward in his development. So much can happen.

Bobby could always use a closer-by-committe if Soriano is out for any length, going with some Combo of Moylan, Yates and perhaps Ohman depending which hitters are coming to bat in the ninth, etc.

By Bryan

January 29, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

ncscoots - i don’t think those people were wrong … its just that the braves starters couldn’t make it out of the 5th … or the 4th … sometimes the 3rd … The bullpen was quite good last year and if we had had any pitching from the 4, 5 pitchers it would have been a different story.

By N8

January 29, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

KC

I gotcha. Actually Roman Gal, pointed out that he DID say that in the opening paragraph for the article.

Either way, we’re on the same page, and Dayn Perry is STILL a douchebag. :-)

nscoots

“Instead, Wren signed Glavine, so the position of counting on Smoltz less, rather than more, is untenable.”

I see your point, but disagree. Glavine, at worst, will give us innings. Which we badly need. Add to that the combination of Chuck, Jo-Jo, Bennett, JJJ and even Hampton will certainly give us more quality innings than the 3-5 spots gave us last year, don’t you think?

I just think, that overall, the balance of this team is considerably better than last year’s group.

Tex for a whole year, makes up for Andruw being gone, IMO. Renteria might be missed, but I believe that Escobar will shine this year, and KJ will be more comfy at 2B, making his bat more potent. Francoeur and Mccan will do what they do, which is enough (though I’m sure they’ll both be a little better). The rest of the offense is based on health of Chipper and Kotsay. Because the Diaz/whoever platoon in LF won’t be any worse than it was last year.

So technically the offense (which was pretty darn good) should remain close to last year’s production.

The defense should be improve for the season. Chipper is Chipper. Escobar is better, IMO, than Renteria (maybe not as steady - but like a young Furcal, his flashes of brilliance will cancel out his occasional 2nd year guy lapses), KJ should be better, and Tex is certainly better than having Thorman/Salty/Julio over there for the first half of the year. While Andruw might be missed, Kotsay (if healthy) is MORE than adequate, Francoeur is a GG winner, and I’ll assume that being LH, Brandon Jones will play more than Diaz, meaning we won’t have Harris’ “girl arm” in LF.

Pitching? Even though Smoltz is a year older, he can still be counted on to be above average to great. Hudson is fine if he duplicates last year, Glavine is surely better than what we had in the 3-spot, meaning that the above mentioned guys is certainly better options to fill our the 4 and 5 spots.

The bullpen is the ONLY question mark to me. But it’s certainly not from having choices of seemingly quality arms out there. It will be interesting to say the least, to see who excells and who doesn’t.

Even the bench should be improved, IMO.

So the question isn’t whether the Braves have improved the overall balance and strength as a team, it’s more about whether the Mets and Phillies (even the Nats), are improved, the same or weakened, that will make the difference to me.

I for one, can’t wait to watch it all unfold in a couple of months.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

22oz if moylan gets the closer role if needed it will be because he has more experience at ML level than Acosta. Rule number #1: dont change your plan if it is working. If moylan is money in the bank in the 8th, why move him to closer? Acostas inexperience would be the only thing that comes to my mind.

ncscoots at least i was not one of those 3000 blogger cause i never liked Wickman. Plus missing Gonzo to begin the season turned a great bulpen into a mortal one.

By N8

January 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

“Didn’t about 3000 bloggers make a similar post last year, with different names? As I remember, that plan didn’t work too well.”

The Braves games were 7 innings long, and they had the bullpen (even with Gonzo out for the year) to take advantage of it. Of course the ONLY two pitchers that could get the team TO THE 7TH INNING on a regular basis were Smoltz and Hudson.

So 3 out of 5 games, the bullpen needed to make the games anywhere from 3.1 to 6 innings long. NOBODY’S bullpen is/was THAT good.

Having Glavine eat innings, helps. Having Glavine around SHOULD help Chuck and (or) Jo-Jo.

I’m just not so sure the bullpen is as strong as it was last year. Which is where Oscar came in. But I think between guys like Buddy, Bennett, and the other “losers” of the 4th and 5th spot roles, we will find our long man to replace Oscar, which is more than likely EXACTLY what Wren was thinking when he dealt him to the Astros.

Let’s face it. The ONLY reason Oscar was so important the last two years, is because the starter (3-5) didn’t do their jobs good enough. Tell me when we had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and company, that the season’s “balance” was in the hands of the long-man?

If it comes down to our long-man being vital (to steal from the DB), to our season, we’ve got bigger problems than WHO the long-man is people.

By WeJustNeedaBreak

January 29, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Barring no injuries we should win the division. But one injury to a starter we are screwed. Please get another safe middle range pitcher….just one more. There are plenty still out there. PLEASE ONE MORE!!!!!!

By WeJustNeedaBreak

January 29, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Barring no injuries we should win the division. But one injury to a starter we are screwed. Please get another safe middle range pitcher….just one more. There are plenty still out there. PLEASE ONE MORE!!!!!!

By Jeff R

January 29, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

You’re not wrong, Carroll, Devine was rushed up. Pity. He may just turn out to be a solid closer for the A’s.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

N8 im more concerned about the bench than about the bullpen, much more. We still have thorman and prado (will they be better than last year????, i hope so). Salty is not here anymore. Of course not having woodcrap, julio and Orr is an improvement, but then your backup in the OF are rookies. So basically or bench has very little experience. That leaves the door open to javy to sneak in as an anchor and experience.

Bench has lots of talent but young, not many options to point as your clutch player out of the bench.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

nathan, sure, the back-end rotation will be better than last year, heck, the Taiwan Little Leaguers had better 4 and 5 starters. But you can’t count on them to be above-average as Plan A…that way lies third-place.

If you have diminished expectations from your nominal top pitcher (reduce Smoltz’s workload) and a mid-rotation starter (Glavine, at worst, will give innings), then you can no longer be content with the reasonable expectation of a team .500 record from 4 and 5.

By DAP

January 29, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

as far as weather team in the east are improved or weakened, heres what i think:

braves- improved phillies- improved mets- weakened nats- improved marlins- weakened

this is also what order i think these teams will finish.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Only 3 position players were born before the 1980 WS, that is youth right there but then again lots of unexperience also.

By KC

January 29, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

N8: Fo shizzle!

By N8

January 29, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

Again, I’m taking into consideration, that IMO, the Mets (until they trade for Santana), have done NOTHING to improve their team from last year.

And why CAN’T we count on “more” from the young guys in the 4th and 5th spots? I never really said anything about accepting them being around .500.

Leyland has told Cox that JJJ would have made his rotation, and surely if he’s not gonna be a good pitcher, we could have gotten more for Renteria, right?

I want to believe that by the time next year is over, we’re gonna be PUMPED we have JJJ in our rotation for the future.

Not to mention the LACK of pressure on the 4th and 5th guys, with guys like Hudson, Smoltz and Glavine ahead of them.

Let’s not forget how GOOD Smoltz was last year. If we get 80 percent of that this year, it’s STILL good enough to be a #2 guy, provided Hudson remains the same. Which I see no reason that he shouldn’t. The combination of a “less than last year Smoltz” and Glavine, will be better for us, than last year’s version of Smoltz and Chuck in the 3-hole, IMO.

Now you drop Chcuk down a notch (where he should be), and he seems to be better.

That’s not even factoring in Hampton. Who (unlike the Braves) I expect things out of this year.

By richbrave

January 29, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

KC:

Thanx for acknowledging he’s “important.” Based upon your word, I won’t call it a wasted trade then. And we needn’t split hairs over verbage such as “vital.” Hopefully, he’ll be able to play opening day and become a bridge to Schafer capably performing the role he was traded for.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Johan to the Mets. And they didn’t have to give up Fernando Martinez. I am depressed. Here is the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm

That is a great deal that doesn’t kill there Farm. Fernando is their Jordan Schafer. Maybe USAToday is lying. Who knows?

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

injuries are part of the game and everyone has them. hampton, gonalaez, and wickman ( too many krystal’s not enough courage.)davies, cormier, and mcbride.

all those guys were counted on to play key rolls on the staff last year at this time and all either vastly underachieved, got hurt, or got run out of town.

my point is,we are going to have injuries, it just depends on how well equipped you are to deal with them.

there is no doubt we are better equipped this year then last. so dont worry about things you cant control.

By DAP

January 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

i cant stand this much longer. first pitch cant come soon enough.

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

MLBtraderumors.com has Santana traded to the Mets.

By Anders

January 29, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Lew

Per John Heyman of SI today:

the Twins appear to be in more regular contact with the Mets in recent days, which could be an indication that they are leading as the finish line approaches.

Tell us Mr. Heyman, what could the rag tag Mets system possibly have to offer for Santana?

The Mets’ latest offer is believed to include outfield prospect Carlos Gomez plus pitching prospects Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra. However, the Mets have balked at including a second top outfield prospect, Fernando Martinez

And yet they are still believed to be the front runners in the Santana sweepstakes.

Wait -there’s more from Mr. Heyman. Apparently he can answer your question about wether the Mets would spend all this money you’ve been asking about.

He is believed to be seeking a six-year deal, or even a seven-year deal, but the Mets will hope to offset that request with a high annual salary, which can be expected to be in the range of $22-to-25 million. They are said to be adamant in not wanting to go beyond five years for any pitcher.

BTW- I think the Mets floated the $22-$25 mil per year message for Santana’s ears. The Mets are willing to pay him up to $5 mil more per year than what is expected from others. Food for thought for Santana considering he has a no trade and final control over the deal.

Personally I make the deal including Martinez if I have to, but if Minaya gets him and keeps his highest rated prospect -yum, yum.

And finally from Heyman:

Some baseball officials believe an agreement on the players could be struck as early as Tuesday.

Slow breadths Lew, slow breadths.

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

johan is a met, should get interesting now.

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

johan is a met, should get interesting now.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

If the Santana rumor is true , the N.L. East race is wide open.

By Braveheart

January 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Mets got The Man. WFAN is saying the Mets and Twins have made the deal - except that the Mets have a 72 hour window to reach a deal on a contract for Johan. IF they don’t agree to terms on the contract, the deal is off

By DAP

January 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

that really sucks. and makes the east much more interesting. the mets just took a huge step forward…its been their only step forward, but its a huge one.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

CBSSportsline and Rotoworld have reported it too. Humber and Mulvey are 4th starters at best. Gomez is more tools than anything. Guerra is way too young to project whether he will be a front of th rotation starter or bust. He was there #2 prospect. Honestly, this is a really good trade for the Mets because they didn’t have to give up Fernando Martinez. Its like the Braves getting a top flight pitcher without having to give up Jordan Schafer.

By Jeff R

January 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Mets replaced Glavine plus some in Santana. Glavine’s good, even at his age, but he’s lost his impact. Santana’s another story. We’ll have to see how Pedro and Perez deliver behind him, though.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Coach

I think the Mets have the upper hand. Johan adds 5-7 wins. I think that is enough to make them a 90-92 win team. I think the Braves are a 87-90 win team. Thats my opinion though. I know a lot of Braves fans on this blog thought the Mets were a 75 win team without Santana, which I thought was absurd. Who knows? But they got their guy without giving up their best prospect.

By Anders

January 29, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Wow. Who saw that coming - Oh, that’s right -ME!

Me thinks you guys might be hearing from the Metro Man shortly. You might want to umplug your monitors.

By ernesto

January 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Ouch. That hurts. You’ve got to say the Mets have the best rotation in the NL East at this point, at least on paper, good thing we’ve got to play 162 on the field.

The Twins freakin’ gave him to them, Humber. Big freakin’ deal. Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey. I guess they were highly regarded prospects, but I think the Twinkies got robbed.

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

This move adds an ace to a VERY old and questionable lineup. It took away one potential outfielder and a back of the rotation starter. They still have Schneider behind the plate and Church in left field. Couple in injury prone Alou, Pedro, El Duque and Delgado,and I don’t think it will make a huge difference for the Mets.

Somewhere Dayn Perry is drooling…

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

And why CAN’T we count on “more” from the young guys in the 4th and 5th spots?

Because “counting on it” is unwise. You only need to look at team records for 4 and 5 starters in the entirety of MLB to see that .500 is a realistic goal. Getting more than that should be a bonus, not a plan.

Not to mention the LACK of pressure on the 4th and 5th guys, with guys like Hudson, Smoltz and Glavine ahead of them.

I hope Glavine has a fairy-tale year, personally. But anything less will increase the back-end pressure, not relieve it.

Let’s not forget how GOOD Smoltz was last year.

The ugly fact: Braves won only 18 of Smoltz’s starts. In some of the losses, the offense and/or bullpen was the culprit, but, in some, he was simply outpitched. As good as he still is (and I marvel at him), he’s not 30 anymore, and 22+ team wins in his starts are no longer automatic.

Listen, I LIKE how the starters are shaping up, especially if Hampton comes back mad. But I sense some misplaced euphoria here on the blog, too, LOL. Last year’s February rotation also had a lot of potential, if I remember the posts from then correctly. :-)

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Diaz, Lopez/Sammons/Pena, and Lillibridge/Prado/Infante just got some more playing time guaranteed!

By Thrillhouse44

January 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope the curse of Mo Vaughn continues. I doubt it, but I can hope.

By Luke

January 29, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Man! Twins fans are going to be p**!! What a steal for the mets! They really did just give him away! Im in shock that this just happened! THIS SUCKS!!!!!

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

balance of power probably just shifted a little. gotta figure we will face him 5 to 6 times this year. i know all of our lefthanded hitters are thrilled.

also, dont take the phills pick up of feliz lightly. he is excellent defensively and in that ball park i expect him to hit 25-33 homeruns.

should be a fun spring all three teams are going for it, albeit in differnt fashion.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Ouch… I know DOB and others will downplay this acquisition, but it without question makes the Mets a big favorite in the NL East…

Even if they get just 20 starts from Pedro this season they should still win at least 95 games - No doubt everything has to fall exactly right for the Braves to win the East this year.

By ncscoots

January 29, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I’m with you, that seems to be a lesser package than I would have thought needed.

Also, if the Mets are only willing to go five years, then the Twins’ 4 yrs/$80MM offer seems more reasonable than perhaps Johan and his agent first thought. Will the Mets go 5 yrs/$125MM, ya think? If not, then where’s Johan’s incentive to move?

By flange1

January 29, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

I really can’t believe the Twins took this crappy deal from the Mets… I guess we will see how the Mets prospects turn out, but I have a feeling Mr. Smith will get fired over this one..

The Mets starters look pretty good right now

Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duke

I do think they will sign either Freddy Garcia or Livan Hernandez.

Put Livan in at 5, move El Duke to the pen and the Mets staff looks MUCH better.

Maybe the best in the East……

By geauxbraves2000

January 29, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

It sounds like a steal by Minaya if it all comes to fruition. I’d say the Twins wanted Santana out of the AL, for they more than likely had better offers.

Oh well, maybe FW has a counter move up his sleeve.

Speaking of which, I’m not so impressed with most of FW’s offseason work. The Mets may have landed the biggest deal of the offseason, and FW’s biggest acquisition was Kotsay (no offense to Kotsay). I’m concerned about the 2008 Braves. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Okay, I’ll crawl back in my hole now.

Geaux Braves!!

By Anders

January 29, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim

You’re always the voice of reason. I don’t think this makes the Mets a lock but I agree the upper hand just swung back to them. Especially if Maine and Perez continue to develop. They can now split time between El Duque and Pedro and have Pelfrey develop as the number 5 or 6. BTW- Top 3 Mets pitchers average age now 27.

Minaya takes an unwarranted beating on this blog as well but I defy anyone to try and say he didn’t play the perfect hand on this deal.

By flange1

January 29, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Do us all a favor and go play in traffic?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

The Twins might be fleeced. But , the biggest loser of this deal has to be the Yankees. The Red Sox will win the A.L. East , ditto for the Angels in the A.L. West. Then we have the 96 win division champ Indians in the A.L Central along with the massively improved Detroit Tigers.

Dear Brian Cashman , you might want to update that resume. The Yankees could actually miss the playoffs for the first time since 1994.

Efrim , I’ll take my chances with the Braves. They are going to the playoffs and nobody or any trade can shake my resolve.

By Ron Roberts

January 29, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Ugh… I’m sorry, but in the camp that believes this makes the Mets the team to beat in the NL East this year, with the Braves, then Phillies following them, if everybody stands pat.

Their rotation looks strong, if Pedro holds up. Not much of a scoring threat, team-wise, but the Braves won many a division without high-scoring teams because they had a helluva solid starting rotation.

Maybe it’s pie-in-the-sky of me to wish we’d have at least been in discussions. Santana’s don’t come around very often. If they’d have taken that paltry deal from the Mets, we could’ve done that prior to Glavine’s signing, right? I dunno… I don’t count the Braves’ beans like some folks here, but geez…

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Geauxbraves, a “counter move?”

The Mets spend the winter trying to replace Glavine (a bigger offseason move than Kotsay was for the Braves, by the way) and when the Mets finally do it and pull off their first significant addition as the calendar flips to February, you expect the Braves, who already said they believe they’ve filled their offseason needs, to suddenly put that aside, jack up the payroll and make a “counter move”?

Don’t hold your breath waiting for that.

By j-School Dropout

January 29, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

It’s amazing how little the Mets had to give up for the best pitcher in the game. Stunning. Four middling prospects for Johan Santana. We need a salary cap in this game and we need it tomorrow!

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

we really struggled against LH’S last year. really dont think we are going to look forward to seeing santana and perez on the same homestand. we can spin it all we want, but this stings a little bit.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Anders

I thought for the last week or so that they would get him. But I thought they would give up Fernando Martinez. Its a very good job by Minaya. He finally woke up from the nap he was taking. I still think it will be down to the wire in the division, but I think the Mets are the favorites.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Interesting to see how, to some here, the likes of Smoltz, Glavine and Chuck James seem like such question marks because of age or whatever other reason offered, yet they’ll throw out the names El Duque, Pedro and Oliver (One Good Season) Perez and act as if that trio’s performance for 2008 is a given.

Santana is HUGE for the Mets. But to act as though their rotation doesn’t have a few other big question marks is to simply ignore past performance and recent injury history.

By GermanBravesFan

January 29, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Too bad Santana can’t hit…

By uga-brave

January 29, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

i agree with Efrim, i think santana is worth an additional 7-8 wins for the mets. not only will he win but he will save that thin bullpen on nights when he starts.

By Anders

January 29, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Coach

The Twins might be fleeced. But , the biggest loser of this deal has to be the Yankees.

I think the Braves might be the biggest loser on this deal. One- The Mets have the premier ace in the division. Two - The Yanks and Red Sox both saved $20+ mil per that can be spent on Tex next off season. Plus Giambi and Manny Ramirez’s contracts are up. Another $20 mil each. You think Boras has done the math on this?

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

DonC, I’m not downplaying Santana move one bit. He’s arguably the best pitcher in the majors over the past five years, certainly one of the best five.

I think he’ll win 18-20 games for the Mets.

But how does the improvement of him over whoever would’ve been in their No. 1 spot, how does that make the Mets “definite favorites” and locks to win 95 games, etc? I’m not following that logic. Does he shore up their aging lineup, the back end of their rotation?

If I had to pick today, it’d be a tossup between Phillies, Mets and Braves, probably still giving edge to Phillies and Braves if the Mets don’t do anything else by opening day. But I’ll wait and make that prediction a bit later.

By brent a.

January 29, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

The National League just got better, which is okay by me. Sure, I don’t want to lose to the Mets, and this move doesn’t make that a certainty. But, I am tired of hearing people refer to the NL as AAAA, and keeping Santana away from the Sox and/or Yankees takes some of that vomit-inducing attention away from the AL East.

Can’t wait until the 1st week-end of April and Braves-Mets, where there will be no Mark Redman sightings.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, so you’d prefer the Braves gone after Santana and given him $20-plus million per year in a long-term contract, thus giving up on any thought of signing Teixeira?

Or do you actually believe the Braves would tie up more than $40 mill per year for two players?

If I had a limited payroll (under $100 mill) I think I’d rather have a cornerstone 1B/switch-hitting slugger in the middle of the order than spend that much or more on an ace, especially given the history of big, long-term contracts handed out to pitchers.

Not saying Braves are going to sign Tex, but they’ve got a chance. If they’d tied up $20 mill per for Santana, they’d have zero chance of signing Teixeira or any other high-dollar slugger for the next few years.

By JohnGTFan

January 29, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

This is huge for the Mutts…and a steal. Twins fans must be feeling a little sore in the “seats” after this lopsided trade. But to say that the Mets rotation is now the best in the East is ridiculous. They still have holes and question marks. Pedro is not “Pedro” anymore…and nothing else on their staff is remotely scary. Johan can only pitch every 4 or 5 games…and he won’t win them all. Pitchers tend to have a harder time adjusting to changing leagues that position players….as good as he is, I’d be surprised if he wins 18 or more games this season.

By Sir Stealth

January 29, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

This blog is going to turn into a giant contest to see who can spew their doom and gloom louder than anyone else. Let me be the first to give a big (sarcastic) round of applause to everyone who proudly and righteously announces their realist points of view first. No reason to weigh down the bandwagon.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

The Mets have lost Paul Lo Duca and replaced him with Brien Schnieder. In right field , Shawn Green is gone , replaced with Ryan Church. Lastings Milledge is gone to and Glavine is a Brave.

Pedro is expected to pitch a full season but is still a question mark. Santana is simply money in the bank. All in all , the Mets project as a 90 win team.

My Braves look like a 95-100 win team , barring some serious injury to multiple players. Sorry , you will get no knee jerk reaction from this knowledgeable Braves fan. I believe in my team , period.

By JC FROM UT

January 29, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t woory too much about Santana. Minnesota isn’t exactly New york with all the pressure plus th ebig contract he is going to get. Plus remember all the pitchers the Mets acquired in the past, who were going to give them great pitching staffs, such as Bret Saberhagen Kevin Appier Frank Viola Randy Jones and the return of Tom Seaver. By the way does anyone know Texeira’s #’s against Santana?

By Merle

January 29, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Dave - The Mets swapped Glavine for Santana. Last year that was a differnece of seven win shares (11 for Glavine and 18 for Santana). In 2006 it was a difference of 12 win shares (13 for Glavine and 25 for Santana). If you don’t think 7-12 wins over last year’s team makes the Mets the favorite I don’t know what to tell you. even with their massive choke down the stretch they still only lost the division by one game.

This is huge.

By Anders

January 29, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

DOB

Go cry in your sourdough toast. No way you can rain on this parade fella.

Oh, now Perez is a one season wonder but I’m supposed to accept that your closer with 13 saves and shorstop with 94 total games in the MLB in two critical positions will produce without question? You’re starting to sound as desperate and foolish as Lewdicrous.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

For those who might be wondering:

Santana career vs. Braves: 0-1, 3.02 ERA in two starts, 12 hits and four runs in 11-2/3 inn.

Santana postseason career: 1-3 with 3.97 ERA in 11 games (five starts). He went more than five innings in two of his five starts during the ‘03, ‘04 and ‘06 postseasons.

Braves vs. Santana:

Chipper 3-for-4, Diaz 5-for-9 with 1 homer, McCann 1-for-3 with 1 homer, Teixeira 4-for-17 with 1 homer, Francoeur 0-for-3.

By Jeff R

January 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Tough call, but I’d have to vote to lock up Santana over Tex. Pitchers like Santana don’t come along everyday and can anchor a capable staff for years. Question: would the Braves be in the hunt with Santana and a LaRoche? I think so. I think pitching is always the cornerstone. Having said that, there are questions with the rest of th Mets rotation and staff. I think Efrim was right: the Santana aquisition puts the Mets in the 90 win range (along with the Phils and Braves). Hard to say at this point who has the edge, though.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

By the way, I will agree fully that the Twins got completely taken. Dumb deal when they could’ve gotten so much more earlier on from Sox or Yanks.

Anders, what are you doing on our Braves blog at a time like this? Are you really that clueless? Dude, go discuss this with Mets fans.

Seriously, what kind of a fan spends the moments after his team’s biggest move in years, talking about it with fans of a division rival on their blog? That’s just strange. But then, typical of you.

By Ron Roberts

January 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Yeah, DOB, if I had to choose between signing Johan or Teixera, long-term, I’d sign Johan. That’s just my opinion, though.

Smoltz won’t be around much longer, same for Glavine. The long-term health of the franchise could sure stand to see a 20-something “ace” either in-tow or on the horizon, for sure.

We play 81 games per-season in a pitcher-friendly ballpark, too. In a perfect world we’d get to keep Tex and make a play for Johan, but we don’t. So yeah, I’d have chosen Santana over Tex if it had come to that. Ace pitchers the ilk of Santana don’t come around very often, and I’m not saying 1B like Tex do, but he’s more easily replaceable than a Johan Santana, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine is.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Merle, absolutely it’s huge. But to simply compare Santana’s “win shares” to Glavine’s last year and deduce that it means the Mets will win seven more games, is to imply that the rest of the team is the same as it was last year. It’s not.

A few old guys (Alou, Castillo, etc) are a year older, Lo Duca’s gone, and are you just assuming that David Wright will replicate those phenomenal offensive numbers he put up last year? (Then again, one could argue Delgado’s not on the down side yet and will do better than in ‘07. We just don’t know.)

By the way, if Pedro is back to being Pedro, then yes the Mets will be quite formidable rotation-wise. But really, it’s simply too early to know whether Pedro will be even close to his old self.

By Luther

January 29, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

I’m fine with the Braves team going into this year and thats what the Braves always do: worry about themselves. Besides the Mets want to be us; even when the best thing happens to them, their fans get on the Braves site to tell us about it though they claim they only come here when they get tired of the same old talk on the Mets.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

DOB I agree I’d much rather have Teixera for the next 6 years at $20mil per than Santana… Position players are inherently more important to a team than a starter (because they play every day, duh guys)…

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

By the way , I just check the Minneapolis-Star Tribune poll concerning the Santana trade. 18 percent in favor , 82 percent not in favor.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Coach

I’m sorry, I disagree that the Braves are a 95-100 win team. I think the Braves are around 87-90 wins, the Phillies the same and the Mets at 90-92 wins.

Anders

The Braves are still right there. Just because I think the Mets are the favorites, doesn’t mean they will win the division. Anything can happen, and usually does.

DOB

Based on what the Mets gave up, it is a very HUGE acquisition. Like I said, it is like the Braves getting an ace without giving up Schafer. That is a very good deal for them and a miscalculation on the Twins part.

By McFann

January 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

McCann hit a home run off Santana on 6/14/07. Wickman blew that game, though.

Have a day. : |

By deepinmetsterritory

January 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Alright this may be a bit preemie, but I’m gonna go ahead and put up some numbers I found of current braves vs. Santana (since we’ll be facing him a few times this year now, officially).

The Good: Chipper 3/4 with 2 walks Diaz 5/9 with 1 double and 1 homer

The So-so: Yunel - 1/3 McCann - 1/3

The Bad: KJ - 0/4 Tex - 4/17 with 1 double and 1 homer

The (really, really) ugly: Omar Infante - 0/16 with 7 k’s Kotsay - 1/9 with 3 walks

What does this teach us? Don’t ever have Omar be the “super-sub” on a day that Santana pitches and if you’re really worried about defense, put Kotsay in there otherwise, make a Santana start his day off.

I’m sure Bobby will take a look at these numbers, but I hope he actually comes to the same conclusions that I do.

By Merle

January 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

@Ron Roberts

2008 Tom Glavine is pretty replacable.

By justdoit

January 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

with all the braves piching prospects and brent lillibridge being blocked by yunel i dont see why they just dont go and get a deal done for bedard - with smolts glavin and hampton leaving soon a rotation of hudson bedard jurrjens reyes james looks pretty good - not to say an awesome rotation this year..?

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

The acquistion of Santana is huge for the Mets but by no means makes them clear cut favorites no matter what insane ramblings our friends from the north mutter. The rest of the rotation is still a question. The bullpen is full of holes. With the exception of Reyes, Wright, and Beltran their lineup is full of questions.

I think this trade by the Twins was horrible. Nobdody can convince me the Mets offer was even close to that of the Yanks and Red Sox. They clearly wanted Santana out of the AL and sold low in doing it. Hell, the Braves should’ve made a pitch if that is all the Twins were going to get.

By Lew

January 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Well, it now looks like the Mets have at least two fifths of a pitching staff-maybe 3/5 if Perez can be the good Perez.

They still have a left fielder likely to miss one third to half a season, a .235 hitting catcher, an aged first baseman, little in the way of a bullpen and Pedro Martinez who probably will miss considerable time with El Duque.

They picked up a premier pitcher. Let’s see if it was enough. I don’t think so. It sure helps them, but not enough. Twins are really stupid.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

No way you can rain on this parade fella.Anders

My bad. I didn’t realize Braves fans were having a parade on the Braves/MIB blog to celebrate a division rival getting a great pitcher. Sorry about that. Didn’t mean to rain on the parade.

Continue the procession.

By McFann

January 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Oops, DOB beat me to it. Oh well, sorry. Thanks, DOB.

By Wayne in Utah

January 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’m with the Coach. I still like my team, although Santana is a great pickup. That dude in Minnesota is pinning his legacy on 4 minor leaguers! WOW!

I still think the Mets are pretty old. (I guess we are too, but so far no history of Smoltz and Glavine fading yet, not counting those last 3 starts last season for TG).

All in all, I would rather sign a guy like Tex over a top dollar pitcher. Bad history for that sort of thing.

Is Bedard going to the Mariners???

By McFann

January 29, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Merle, Santana won 15 games last year, not 18. Nice try.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Twins are idiots. Bill Smith should be fired. They could of had Phil Hughes for crying out loud…..

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 29, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

rich brave I don’t know that I can agree with you on Devine in Richmond last season. The three times I saw him, hit got hit pretty hard but did not give up a lot of hits. He wasn’t fooling anybody though. He was so consistently out of the strike zone that when he had to come in, batters were teeing off on him. There were some great plays being made behind him to save his bacon.

Boyer may come into spring training as a force but he did not impress me last year either. For sure he is not a starter.

By N8

January 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Anders

Here are the stats of two pitchers in the 2ndd half of last year:

Pitcher 1:

84.2 IP, 6 wins against 2 losses, with a 4.57 ERA

Pitcher 2:

98 IP, 5 wins against 7 losses, with a 4.04 ERA.

Pitcher 1 is Glavine, Pitcher 2 is Johan.

Looks to me as though you guys took a step sideways. All you did was replace Glavine. For all the CRAP you’ve been talking about Glavine for the last three months, you’ve just added a guy who was AS responsible for the Twins faltering down the stretch as the guy you claim choked for you guys last year.

Where we added Glavine to our poor staff of last year. So no matter how bad Glavine was for you last year, he’s STILL an upgrade for us.

Not to mention, according to DOB’s post-season stats, it appears you’ve added a post season choker as well?

Congrats.

In all seriousness. It’s a nice move for you guys. I live in Twins land, and Johan is very fun to watch, and I look forward to the Braves facing him more than once every 3 years. It’s not only good for the Mets, but now the fans of all the NL teams, get to see up close what all of the fuss is about.

The Mets have now, narrowed the gap a little bit that had been formed by the Braves pulling away from the pack this winter. :-)

By Wayne in Utah

January 29, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

McFann is right. Santana was good last year, not great.

By Beisbol

January 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

the biggest loser of this deal has to be the Yankees….. Dear Brian Cashman , you might want to update that resume. The Yankees could actually miss the playoffs for the first time since 1994.

Cashman knows this: The team has gone donwhill and has not won a World Series in 7 seasons since the Boss deviated from what made them good and started whoring it up.

Cashman knows that the Yankees will be far better over the next 5 years with Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba. And they will be cheaper. Coach, what you don’t know is that most Yankees fans are sick and tired of the Yankees not winning the World Series - mostly because they tie a noose around their neck with long term contracts to players - especially pitchers who underproduce.

Most Yankees fans want to get back to that magical feeling they had in 1996 where every pitch in the regular and postseason absolutely mattered.

And they want to do it with their own kids and not players like Clemens and his ilk who pimp themselves out to the Yankees. Yankees fans are tired of rooting for the ringbearers - Jeter, Posada, Tino, Oneill, Bernie, Pettitte, Rivera - and the other “true” Yankees - Soriano, Cano, Melky - and jeering the other w******* they trade for or sign. It has almost turned into you root like hell for the true Yankees and root like hell against the other bums and hope the Yankees only win because of the true Yankees. You hope Jeter wins every game and Arod strikes out every time. It’s tiresome.

Most Yankees fans would rather finish out of the playoffs these days rather than win with players who are not their own.

Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy have a chance to be the ultimate Yankees. Johan never would have been one just like Arod, Clemens, Giambi, Mussina, Kevin Brown, Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Damon will never be considered Yankees.

The idiot Steinbrenners may fire him but most true diehard lifelong Yankees fans who did not jump on the bandwagon in 1996 truly appreciate how much Cashman stood his ground and did not make the trade for Johan and stayed with the kids.

It’s a good trade for the Mets because they are at a different phase of their franchise and need to finally get over the hump. The Yankees and Mets are both winners in this trade. Great non trade by the Yanks and great trade for the Mets.

By Robert

January 29, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Wow. The Mets gave up the farm, but they it up for the ONLY thing in baseball worth giving up the farm for

a proven durable stud ace pitcher in his prime

I already have this vision. Braves win the division in ‘08, Mets win the Wild Card, and then the one stud shuts us down and eliminates a-la Kevin Brown in 97 while Donk has his crew busy wasting their time arguing balls and strikes or making sure there sunglasses are off during bp or making sure noone has a radio on in the clubhouse or other vital stuff like that

All cynicism and sarcasm aside, the Mets just got a LOT better for ‘08

By richbrave

January 29, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

And so the comments turn back to solid, long-term pitching. This I have advocated since I began posting here four months ago. TENN PAUL am I right? You NEVER have enough TOP quality starting pitching. Leave Anders be and concentrate on what needs doing for the future. Wren’s fixed us up as well as he can with the constraints he had to work with. BUT I TELL YOU ALL, IF WE DON”T GET A #1 SP SOMETIME WITHIN THE NEXT TWO YEARS THERE’S GONNA’ BE H&LL TO PAY ON THE FIELD OF BRAVES’ FANS DREAMS.

Saying we have to give up TEX because we can’t afford both he and Santana may be a correct assessment of our current financial position, but that doesn’t make it any better on the field. We need both. I can’t see any other way than to pay two(maybe THREE) guys 20 million per. And yes, for that price I would want a position player over a pitcher if I had to pick just one.

I just can’t see how clubs can give such lucerative, long-term contracts to arms. Look at our experience with Hampton. Thank goodness I’m NOT the Braves GM. Good luck Mr. Wren. Whatever you can do will be greatly appreciated.

Having lived through flush and lean times with Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta for 50+ years I’ll take whatever there is on the field and like it.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

DOB: “But how does the improvement of him over whoever would’ve been in their No. 1 spot, how does that make the Mets “definite favorites” and locks to win 95 games, etc? I’m not following that logic. Does he shore up their aging lineup, the back end of their rotation?”

Well, first thing DOB is that this trade isn’t just the difference of Johan versus whoever else would be in their No.1 spot, its the difference of Johan vs. whoever else would be in their No.5 spot! Getting Johan doesn’t push Pedro or Maine out of the rotation, it pushes Mike Pelfrey out of the rotation. And say what you want about Perez, I know the guy is a headcase, but when he is on he is really on, plus he has never been hurt.

I agree they are (overall) a pretty old team, but they did win 88 games last season with alot of the same problems you are predicting for them in 2008… Delgado can’t possibly be much worse in ‘08 than he was in ‘07; Alou only played in like 90 games in ‘07 which is about what I expect from him in ‘08; whoever replaces Sean Green can’t possibly be much of a downgrade; Luis Castillo for a full season (‘08) is an upgrade over Luis Castillo for half a season + Jose Valentin/Ruben Gotay for half a season (‘07). And lets not forget that the real core of their lineup is not old at all: David Wright (25), Jose Reyes (24), and Carlos Beltran (31 in April).

So yes I do believe getting Johan Santana without affecting their major league roster whatsoever makes the Mets the favorite in the NL East; and as close to a “lock” for 95 wins as you can get in the National League.

And I’m not sure why you’re harping on the “back end of the rotation and aging lineup” as the Mets biggest weakness’, I would say it is without question their bullpen…

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Brian Cashman let the BEST PITCHER in the game get away. How in the name of God does that make the Yankees a better team ? Fer stupid , Beisbol.

By OrlandoFan

January 29, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it great that we get to play the games and see what happens? Santana has been great in the AL Central, probably baseball’s best division right now. Different dynamics in the NL. He will have to hit and run the bases and deal with the nuances that separate the leagues. On the other side, he won’t have to face DHs. But it will be interesting to see this unfold. So much hope for one pitcher. And a huge investment. Personally, 6 years for a pitcher these days — if that’s what truly it is — is too many, IMHO.

By richbrave

January 29, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

GIL:

Good to hear from you man. Hope the family and yourself are in good health. Well, we don’t have Devine anymore, so I guess we’ll see how he does in other venues. Ready to get some season tickets? And a trip or two to Danville? Why don’t we meet over in the Laburnum - 360 intersection area for lunch one day this week? I’ve got to get a couple of antiques repaired by my artisan who’s located there.

By JerseyGil

January 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

On the posible trade of santana to the Met, now more than ever The Bravos going to Win the Division, The Met with two Lefty in their rotation going to Take care the Phillis power lefty hitter(Howard,Utley). Santana can match ours two Power Switch hitter(Chipper & Tex). Prediction….Minaya will be fire on Aug.

By N8

January 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Robert

“I already have this vision. Braves win the division in ‘08, Mets win the Wild Card, and then the one stud shuts us down and eliminates a-la Kevin Brown in 97”

I too can see that happening. The Braves winning the division and the Mets winning the wild-card, then beating us in the NLCS (provided the Diamondbacks choke).

But it won’t because of Santana. His post-season performances are the reason the Twins haven’t gone farther in the playoffs. VERY similar to the Braves fate in playoffs past, he is DOMINANT during the regular season, which makes them look like the “favorites” then he “underperforms” in the playoffs, while the team is waiting for him to carry them, just like we did with Maddux. For all the domination that Maddux had for us for a decade, he was merely mediocre in the playoffs. Throws too many strikes, good hitters (which most playoff teams have), take his stuff the other way and make him pay for being around the plate.

Is it fair that Johan and guys like Maddux and Glavine get that bad rap? Nope. But when you are THAT GOOD in the regular season, and guys like Sterling Hitchcock pitch the games of their life, what are you gonna do?

By NYbravesFAN

January 29, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

smolts-hudson-bedard-glavin-hampton - now that would be one nasty rotation but too bad it is not going to happen - anyway even with the mets getting santana.. going by every position the braves still have a better team then the mets…no worries - Go Braves!

By Jeff R

January 29, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Bottomline is that the Mets just added the best pitcher in the majors to their rotation. That puts them in a better competitive position versus the Braves and Phils than before the trade. I don’t think the Mets are a 95 win team. Neither are the Braves or Phils. I think if all three teams play up to their capabilities, each can win 90 games, tops. Not all three will, so it’s a matter of which team(s) falls short.

By randyh

January 29, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

braves need to make a counter. tampa bay just got their ace lefty under contract, maybe we can work a trade and still not give up the farm. i understand he is very good.

By JerseyGil

January 29, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

I say posible trade because is not official. Mr. Santana….welcome to the NL league, you have a lot to learn, take your time..ok….

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 29, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

It took me awhile but I came up with the equivalent of today’s Santana trade. Mets fans , look away.

June 15, 1977 – The New York Mets trade pitcher Tom Seaver to the Cincinnati Reds for pitcher Pat Zachry, infielders Doug Flynn, Steve Henderson, and prospect Dan Norman.

Known as the “Midnight Massacre” in New York, this trade dismantled the last remnants of the Amazin Mets of 1969. Also occurring that day was the trade of Dave Kingman, to the San Diego Padres for Paul Siebert and Bobby Valentine. Zachry would make the All-Star team in 1978, but would break his foot the next year and was never the same, Flynn was mainly a defender, Henderson would have one bit of glory as the runner up to Andre Dawson for Rookie of the Year and Norman was a bust. But the biggest lost was that the credibility that the Mets would lose in the eyes of their fans, as many remained angry with the team for years. As for Seaver, he would continue his Hall of Fame career with the Reds, having many more good seasons and winning 122 of his 311 wins away from the team.

By Carroll Rogers

January 29, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Chip, when you see this, read 22oz at 8:46. Good stuff. Though I have to say “reducing” Ascanio to a September call-up might be oversimplifying. Weren’t all the great ones September call-ups at one time or another? Not saying Ascanio’s gonna be a great one. just pointing to a hole in the reasoning. The overall point was solid.

DonC, for some reason I go with Acosta as closer if Soriano goes down but as DOB says it’s awful early for that kind of call.

Santana to the Mets - impressive.

Lew, I was down in Macon today talking at Macon State. Bonus points?

By N8

January 29, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone

“Position players are inherently more important to a team than a starter (because they play every day, duh guys)…”

Hmmm.

In 1992, the Braves finished with a 98 wins, and the Giants finished with 72 wins.

The Giants added Barry Bonds (along with Billy Swift) and finished with 103 wins in 1993. The Braves added Maddux (and later added McGriff) and finished with 104 wins.

So two players added 31 wins to the Giants, and 6 wins for the Braves.

Are you telling me that JS made a mistake? That had we added Billy Swift and Barry Bonds that offseason, we would have had around 129 wins that year? LOL!

Actually I was going to argue that us adding Maddux and the Giants adding Bonds only separated us by 1 game in the end, but then I realized what a difference that Bonds made to that team, based on the 1992 standings. WOW.

In hindsight, as much as I love(d) Maddux, it does bear asking what adding Bonds to our lineup would have done for us, since we did still have Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, and more than likely would have kept Leibrandt.

Interesting to say the least.

I think, IMO, when adding only one or the other, you have to judge that decision based on your biggest need. We probably didn’t “need” Maddux to remain a great team in 1993, considering we did have 98 wins the previous year. LOL!

But the Giants CLEARLY needed the offense of Bonds.

One COULD argue for us right now, that with young, upcoming players on the rise for us at the everyday positions, Tex isn’t as necessary as a frontline starter. Surely the Mets needed pitching more than another bat.

Don’t you agree?

By Beisbol

January 29, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Brian Cashman let the BEST PITCHER in the game get away. How in the name of God does that make the Yankees a better team ? Fer stupid , Beisbol.

How did Frank Wren let the BEST PITCHER in the game get away? To his rival? How will Frank Wren let the BEST FIRST BASEMAN in the entire game get away next year? How did Frank Wren let the BEST CENTERFIELDER in the game get away? How did Frank Wren let one of the BEST SHORTSTOPS in the game get away?

Now, I ain’t saying that the Braves decisions don’t make sense. Just saying that the Yankees decision not to trade for Johan makes sense for the same reasons.

Worry about your own team. The Braves have the prospects. The Braves could have gotten it done if they really were spending many more millions.

The Yankees once did not get Greg Maddux. 3 years later, Joe Girardi hit a triple off the wall in centerfield and the Yankees beat Maddux in Game 6 in 1996 to win the World Series. And the Yankees won 4 of the next 7 World Series while the Braves only won one.

Sometimes the best deals you make are the ones you don’t make. And stop commenting on the Yankees. You are little out of your depth when it comes to understanding the Yankees.

The truth is that a 6 year, $120 million dollar contract makes no sense for either team. But don’t demand more from the Yankees than you demand from your own Braves.

The Yankees will be a better team over the next five years with Joba, Kennedy, and Hughes than the Mets will be with Johan. AND they will not have to pay anywhere near $120 million dollars for all 3 combined over the next 5 years.

Also, why do you think the Red Sox and Yankees were so hesitant to make the Johan deal? Dude is getting older and he was not that great in the second half with concerns of masking injuries. Could that be a reason he seems so desperate to get a contract done NOW instead of waiting until everyone fights over him next winter?

His style of pitching raises questions about how intelligent it is to give him a 6 year, $120 million contract. Go youtube Hampton and Johan. Their mechanics and body type are very similar. And we all know what happened to Mike Hampton.

By Beisbol

January 29, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

As for Seaver, he would continue his Hall of Fame career with the Reds, having many more good seasons and winning 122 of his 311 wins away from the team.

Seaver never won 20 games again in his career.

His win totals were 16, 16, 10. 14. 5, 9, 15, 16, 7.

122 wins over his last 9 years following the trade after winning 166 games over the previous 9 years with the Mets.

And in Seaver’s last year, the Mets won the World Series again.

The travesty of the Seaver trade was more psychological - not performance.

Kind of like the Justice & Grissom trade.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 29, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Beisbol,

7:11 post. Thanks for making lemonade out of lemons. The Mets took a big step forward this year but will Johan be a top-of-the-rotation stud for several more? And how will the Mets restock their farm system?

Johan plugs a big hole now. As others have pointed out, however, he’s just one guy and the Mets have other concerns.

By Freddy Krueger

January 29, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Here’s Freddy’s favorite song for those who have bad dreams:

One, two, Freddy’s coming for you.

Three, four, better lock your door.

Five, six, grab your crucifix.

Seven, eight, gotta stay up late.

Nine, ten, never sleep again

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Beisbol, how come a six-year, $120 mill contract doesn’t make sense for the Mets? My man, they’re rolling in dough, with a new ballpark opening in 2009, the biggest market in North America, and great broadcast deals. You really see no different in their situation and the Braves’ situation, financially?

If you don’t, we’ll have a baseball economics 101 session before opening day, bring you up to speed. Mets have got a lot of dough and are willing to spend it. They have to, to be a factor in that town. Braves have a bit less and aren’t willing to spend more than they have. Just the way it is.

By i cant take it any more

January 29, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

johan santana will convert to Go*d status when he gets in new york’s media. all the braves have to do is bunt slow rollers to davy wright every other at-bat and the braves will have nooo problem with santana. we just need to keep our heads up in the dugout.

By Random

January 29, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san—

Here — try again. They don’t work for me on my work computer, but they do at home.

Try this one and this one.

They’re not ugly — they show Hampton pitching pretty good, in fact.

By N8

January 29, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Jeff R

“Bottomline is that the Mets just added the best pitcher in the majors to their rotation.”

I think if you had said the “best pitcher over the PAST five years, I might agree.

But living up north and seeing most of Johan’s starts on TV, “something” was not right with him in the second half of the year, last year.

Clearly Jake Peavey was baseball’s “best” pitcher last year, and the future looks brighter for him, and guys like Brandon Webb, Fausto Carmona, and even Dan Haren.

I’d be very shocked if Santana is worth the money of this deal, by year 5 of it.

That being said, you all are acting like the Mets are gonna suffer long term for this deal? Saaaa Wha?

They’re the fricking NY METS, they play in NY, they will ALWAYS be able to buy players of high quality, without giving up much in the way of trade.

Which is why, if Johan doesn’t help them win it all next year, and the kids the Twins are getting in return end up being worth a lick, the Mets will look silly. After all, they probably are one of a handful of teams that could have signed him outright after this season, had the Twins been forced to hang on to him.

By DonCoburleone

January 29, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Well N8, I kind of see your point, but I would counter and say that have any of our up & coming position players proven that they can be impact players in the major leagues? And by impact player, I mean the likes of a Chipper Jones, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, Chase Utley, Mark Teixera, David Wright, etc… I would say NO WAY. Now if Francoeur or McCann or KJ go out this season and put up an OPS of .980 with 30+ homers and 120+ RBI then I would be more inclined to agree with you. But as of right now, Jeff Francoeur and Brian McCann and Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar are nothing more than solid major league contributors with the potential to become impact players.

Currently, on this Braves team, Chipper Jones and Mark Teixera are without question the two best hitters. In 3 years, Chipper certainly won’t be the same player he is now (if he’s still even playing) but Teixera probably will be putting up close to the same production. Bottom line, I think a true impact bat (like Mark Teixera) is worth more to a team than a true impact pitcher (like Johan Santana) regardless of the teams young players or future prospects…

By JerseyGil

January 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

DOB i Agree with you, but the Mets are playing with fire…hope they have a big Insurance company, bigger that Lloyd of London.Team never learn the lesson with Hampton situation. Economic it not all, you have to think in the future to, they can make a ton of dough in the next few year, but if the trade doesn’t work or Santana get injured, they will be a lot of head running around on Queen next year.Sign A Pitcher for long term is a gamble, especial when you put the future of your team in jeapordy.

By ObiWanKobe

January 29, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

I predict a Barry Zito like year for Johan next year. New league, not a power pitcher. Only non-power pitcher to sign a long term deal and live up to the expectations is Maddux when Atlanta got him as a free agent.

By TommyP

January 29, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

DOB: You said, and are you just assuming that David Wright will replicate those phenomenal offensive numbers he put up last year?

Uh….first off, they weren’t “phenomenal.” Pretty strong term for 30 dingers. LOL

Secondly, his numbers have slowly gotten better each year.

I think EVERYONE expects him to IMPROVE on his numbers.

By Lew

January 29, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Carroll-Anyone going to Macon deserves hazardous duty pay at the very least. Does it still smell bad?

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the props CR.  I agree I may have oversimplified Ascanio being”just a callup”, but I was trying to point out our glutton of right handed relievers, which Frank Wren dealt from as a position of strength, something you’re supposed to do.   Fixing to watch espnnews to see if the season is canceled. Did just get done watching 3:10 to Yuma. Solid movie, enjoyed very much.

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I think David Wright, Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes are three guys I wouldn’t worry about if I were a Met fan. I would worry about:

1) Pedro and El Duque’s Health

2) Carlos Delgado’s Health/Performance

3) Bullpen depth behind Billy Wagner, Aaron Heilman and Pedro Feliciano

4) Moises Alou’s Health

And that is about it. Although that is a lot to worry about.

As a Brave fan, I worry about the fact that Chipper is good for 140 games. I can’t count on him for more than that. Smoltz worries me, but if he gives the Braves 30 starts, then I’m fine with that. Yunel Escobar/Mark Kotsay’s offensive production. Kotsay can’t be much worse than Andruw, but Jones did hit 25 Homers and knock in 84? runs. Renteria posted a .879(?) OPS over the course of a full season. Albeit he was hurt for a month. Escobar hasn’t proven himself over a full season yet. I think he will be good, but not as good as Edgar, offensively that is.

But to offset those two, I am expecting McCann and Francouer to step it up…..they have too. The numbers those two put up just won’t do in 2008. They have to be better.

By 22oz

January 29, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Well, it looks like they’re gonna play the season, but they spoiled the ending, telling us the Mets will win the NL.

By SNIPER-69

January 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Not many brave fans will admit it but I know you’re worried now. We just replaced Glavine and have become the favorites to win the NL East. See you in April……

By LT-AA blogger

January 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Wow- just saw the headline, bring on some baseball! This year just got a ton more interesting. While I hate the Mets got Santana, I am glad the Yankees or Red Sox didn’t land him. I’m really F%!#ing sick and tired of both of them buying the roster.

If the Bravo’s can win the division, it will be just that much sweeter.

By Metropolitan Man

January 29, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

New pitching assessment due to the trade that cost a fraction of the farm system: Of course this is not the matchups everytime but just like last year the METS seem to face your 1-3 guys every time.

Santana V Smoltz- Smoltz will take the ball and is fearless. He will take the ball as long as something is on the line. All I know about Santana is whhat we have all read and just have to wait and see. So for now, I”ll call it even. (Santana probably has an edge when you crunch numbers)

Pedro V Hudson: I’m going with the healthy Pedro because there have been no setbacks after he claimed himself completely healed. Hudson is great, your most durable and relaible starter so there is not much to kncok except its a shame he cant control the NL like he controlled the AL.

Maine V Glavine- Say what you will about Galvines durability but the light goes out eventually and us METS saw the gas light on last year down the stretch. Maine still showing strides as is Perez so things are looking good for the future when Pedro and El Duque decide to leave. A core of Santana, Maine and Perez is not bad.

Perez V James: These games should be interesting becasue you never know what pitcher might show up. Perez should get the nod because he is simply a braves slayer with no fear. Can the braves bats solve him in a must win game????

El Duque/Pelfrey V Your 5th starter: Just knowing we have a vet and a young guy in the wings with MLB experience is the insurance we didnt have before the day started. Now I have no clue what your guys can offer because the names arent scaring any one. If they are anything like last season, you guys better hope the phils play like, well the phils of old.

Now the METS got Santana for a fraction of the farm system and the chips werent that great. What a robbery but oh well, things happen. METS have been on the opposite side so long, I think getting Santana is the equivalent of Piazza showing up and making the METS repectable…at least for a minute.
So after the trade, the METS just jumped 5 games ahead in the standings. How will braves management respond and make up the difference????

By McFann

January 29, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim is correct. McCann and Francoeur have to be better than they were in 2007, though Francoeur’s BA wasn’t that bad, and McCann’s RBIs were OK, but there’s always room for improvement. This should be fun, and I’m really getting tired of waiting! I think the BRAVES have a pretty good ball club.

NIGHT ALL!!

By Efrim

January 29, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Met Man

Response by Braves management???

Trade Schafer, Jurrjens, Lillibridge and Rohrbough for Bedard!!!!

Just kidding. I think the Braves are set man. If your rotation is healthy, its better, but that is a big IF. The Braves will be fine. Should be an interesting season.

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

And that is about it. Although that is a lot to worry aboutEfrim

You forgot one thing: The potential mental carry-over of having most key members back from a team that produced the worst September collapse since the advent of divisional play.

That can weigh on a team if things start going badly. Kind of like postseason failures weighed on the Braves those last few times, when they had the stigma of having been beaten in the first round again and again, and everyone was waiting to see if it’d happen again (it did).

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Uh, first off, they weren’t phenomenal. Pretty strong term for 30 dingers. LOL TommyP

Thanks for the tutorial in sophisticated statistical analysis, Tommy. Those 30 dingers, pretty much all you need to know, huh?

Let’s see: At 24, Wright hit .325 (seventh in the NL) with a .416 OBP (fourth in the NL) and .963 OPS (eighth in the NL), and in close and late situations he hit .346 (27-for-78) with a 1.037 OPS.

He had 42 doubles and 30 homers for the season, and in the second half hit .364 with a .465 OBP.

Yeah, you’re right. For a 24-year-old, those stats weren’t too phenomenal.

Good point. After all, he only hit 30 dingers.

By cwartillery

January 29, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Nice fair comparison Metropolitan Man. While a die hard Braves fan, I have to agree that if Pedro is healthy for the whole season, the Mets now have the overall edge in pitching. Of course, we have such an unknown in Hampton and some young promising guys it’s hard to know what we have. And there is always the possibility of age sidelining Smoltz. This should be a very good year in the NL East. I’m looking for a great race.

By Carroll Rogers

January 29, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Lew, nothing was smelling bad at the Bear’s Den!

By Metropolitan Man

January 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

I agree to an extent to DOB 9:59 post. The 1st METS 3 game losing streak will show panic until a pitcher with no fear becomes the stopper. Once he is identified, then panic will hopefully subside. The same can be said about a team who is use to finishing 1st all the time, come in THIRD 2 years in a row. How is their mental state going to hold up looking up in the standings when you had easy ride all those years. Like I said before, 1 team is on the rise, and another team continues to sink. I’ll let you pick the horses, or donkies for that matter (shout out to Robert)

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

And as for Santana being the “best” pitcher: If I could have any pitcher in baseball for the next five years, I’d take Jake Peavy or Brandon Webb.

I’d also take Beckett over Santana, now that Josh seems to have it all figured out, including how to stay healthy. Beckett is a year younger than Santana, has 51 regular-season wins in the past three years, and is a true big-game pitcher….

McCann, batting average was not at all a problem for Francoeur (.293) in 2007. Braves could use more power from him, and a little higher OBP, but the batting average was fine.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 29, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

richbrave drop me an e-mail at elliotgm@aol.com… We can set it up.

By brian

January 29, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

here’s hoping last year’s subpar season for Santana was a trend and not an anomaly.

I cannot believe the Twins took that deal from the Mets after balking on deals from the Yankees and Red Sox. Hughes, Lester, or Ellsbury would be the best player back to the Twins over anyone the Mets gave back. I guess the Twins were desparate to move Santana OUT of the American league. I would not have been that desparate.

The extension he would command scares me - he is one awkward throw from Tommy John.

By BosnianBaller

January 29, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Whats up with leo mazzone?

By TennesseePaul

January 29, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Coming in late. Was out at the bar when the news came down. Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra. Not all that impressive of a deal. If the Braves truly had many millions more they could have offered slightly more and fulfilled the Twins apparent biggest desire, keep Johan out of the AL.

I could go back to what has been covered aready. But I know the responses; Braves are using the money on stadium renovations, or saving it for next offseason to through at Teixeira, or have already maxed out the payroll by acquiring a 40+ year old lefty looking to retire on a nastolgic note, and of course, “it’s only January 29th, there is still plenty of time for things to happen”…
But truly, what is the point? I haven’t been sold on this team as the best in the NL all offseason, nor the favorite of the East. Nothing has changed much. This will still be a tough season and the Braves should challenge for the Division.

The good news? not as much as I had hoped. I was hoping the Mets would give up all 2 of their prospects instead of just half of them. But whatever, that system still isn’t strong and the team is old and locking itself into perpetual oldness. The Braves on the other hand traded a big bargaining chip for a starter with numbers similar to Kyle Davies… and a rookie baller. So this system is set.

By Metropolitan Man

January 29, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Well that should complete the METS offseason barring injuries in spring training. They have a complete rotation, roster, and no injuries to any player at this time. Of course all this can change in a NY minute but things look very nice righ now. We had 1 of the worst beginings to the off season watching Dontrell go, and relief pitchers sign elsewhere. But if there ever was a grand finale to something, here it is. I feel good about it but there is always a gut check feeling when a huge fre agent comes to the METS. We always forget to check the buyer beware sign, did Santana have one???

Man, see you guys at the TED. I’m ready for a rematch of 1999!!!

By TennesseePaul

January 29, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

“If it’s true, obviously, you’re getting arguably the best pitcher in the game,” Mets third baseman David Wright said
—Associated Press

Not 10 minutes passed before Wright was awarded the AP’s Best Interviewee of the Millenium Award.
AP President: We felt the need to create this award for David for his latest interview skills. His responses are sweeping, sprawling responses covering decades of baseball history, chronicling the rise from nothing to tremendous riches for an eccentric, bullying, brilliant but disturbed baseball franchise.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 29, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Look at it this way, denizens, if Johan gets a five, six or seven year extension from the Muts, then he’ll probably break down within a couple of seasons. Can you say Kevin Brown? Darren Dreifort? Or — dare we? — Mike Hampton?

By Loserville

January 29, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

And Yet It Continues——The Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves have won as many World Series in the last 55 years as the Florida Marlins have won in the last 11. And the Florida Marlins have won as many World Championships as the Atlanta falcons, Atlanta Hawks, Atlanta Thrashers and Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves have won in their collective histories.

Stick to college football and recruiting that is your niche.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Efrim, youll have to excuse me but i dont think the braves are a 90 wins team at best. I think they are 90 wins at worst.

Twins took less from the muts just to get Johan out of the so the trade wouldnt hunt them back, but it will anyway, they took nothing but no name players.

By Braveheart

January 29, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

McCann and Frenchy don’t really need to step it up for the team, especially McCann. They need to step it up for their own personal development but it is not critical at all for the success of the team. The only concern should be regression with the two of them, not progression as far as team improvement.

For his entire career whatever McCann provides that is significantly better than the league average for a catcher is more than enough. You can’t expect him to put up 2006 like numbers year in and year out because he is a catcher. He was not outstanding last season but he was still the second best hitting catcher in the National League.

Look at someone like Thurman Munson. In Munson’s first year, he had an OPS+ of 94. McCann had an OPS+ of 95 his first year.

In their second years, Munson had an OPS+ of 126, and McCann had an OPS+ of 141.

In their third years, Munson had an OPS+ of 105, and McCann had an OPS+ of 100.

For the rest of his career, Munson had OPS+ numbers of 114, 141, 101, 126, 125, 121, 101, 95.

So, I think McCann can become the heart and soul of the Braves like Thurman Munson was especially if he grows back that beard that made him look like a catcher. And you can expect some ups and downs offensively like Munson because of the demands of the position while he maintains his status as the best one or two catchers in the league like Munson was during his time.

Part of the genius of getting Tex and letting him hit cleanup is that the Braves protected Frenchy and McCann from having to carry the weight of the team on their shoulders. They just need to worry about their own personal development and not being the reason for the success and failure of the team.

As for Frenchy, if he can have a .350 OBP or so and combine that with a .475 or so SLG that is all the Braves need and should expect for the sake of his personal development. But Frenchy getting significantly better is not critical for the success of the Braves next season.

The Braves scored over 5 runs a game last year with a woeful cleanup hitter and with Chipper and Edgar missing 30 games and Frenchy and Mac putting up the numbers they put up. Even if the Gwinnett COunty All Stars don’t personally improve, the Braves will be more than okay - although they will be concerned obviously that the future of their team has not yet stepped up to the level they want (not necessarily need) them to get to.

But, like I said, I don’t think the Braves are too concerned about McCann. He might have one more great year like 2006 in him over the course of his career. He’ll have a handful of years like last year and a handful of years in between what he did last year and what he did in 2006. If that is what he does over the course of the first 10, 12 years of his career, the Braves will be more than happy with McCann.

By WhatGives?

January 29, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, so you’d prefer the Braves gone after Santana and given him $20-plus million per year in a long-term contract, thus giving up on any thought of signing Teixeira?

In other words: Ron Roberts, so you’d prefer the Braves gone after Maddux and given him a high dollar long term contract, thus giving up on any thought of signing Bonds?

He’s arguably the best pitcher in the majors over the past five years, certainly one of the best five.
\ And as for Santana being the “best” pitcher: If I could have any pitcher in baseball for the next five years, I’d take Jake Peavy or Brandon Webb.
I’d also take Beckett over Santana

Arguably the best As for Santana being the “best”…

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, i have to disagree with you…. TEX is not a player easily replaceable. You are talking a player of the caliber of pujols or at least close to him. There was no space for Johan right now. Braves have 4 allstar calliber veterans, they are taking their chances with them. I agree that if you sign Johan then you lose your chance to sign TEX and he is our 4th hitter. There is nobody to replace him in our team or farm right now. So what would you do once he is gone? Braves are deep in pitching but thin in 1st and cleanup hitters. No way you choose Johan over TEX at this point. Maybe if Tim and John were not here and our top pitchers were glavine, hampton??? and james.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 29, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Another point, folks. The rumored deals that were on the table from the Yanks and the BoSox were just that … rumors. Johan had a full no-trade clause, so he could have vetoed a deal to any team he didn’t want to play for.

Maybe the Mets were his preferred destination all along.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

justdoityou cant trade lillibridge away from a team that is already thin in IFs. Plus why him one of your best young players for a pitcher that is not one of the very best? If we need pitching we will get it before july 31st. We have enough to keep us in contention till then.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

N8 signing Johan is not replacing Glavine, come on, we have to talk with the truth. Talk to yourself…… do you really think having Glavine is the same as having Santana?

By David O'Brien

January 29, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Sorry, screen name “what gives,” but I have no idea what your question or point is. Maybe others do. If so I’m sure they’ll respond.

If you’re not comprehending what I wrote, I’ll clarify: Santana is arguably the best pitcher of the past five years, certainly one of the best five.

But if I could choose one pitcher for the next five years, I’d take Peavy or Webb, not Santana. I’d also take Beckett over Santana.

Beckett’s a year younger, has 51 wins in past three seasons, and is a proven big-game pitcher — the best of the under-30s in big games.

That said, Santana is obviously outstanding.

Only about three teams could afford to pay him the 20-25 mill a year he’s demanding in a long-term contract. It’s always a risk with pitchers, but Mets can afford to take such a risk. They’re rich.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man said: We had 1 of the worst beginings to the off season watching Dontrell go, and relief pitchers sign elsewhere. But if there ever was a grand finale to something, here it is.

Metroman, actually the grand finale was the last 2 weeks your muts had last year, LOL. Sorry, couldnt resist posting it.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

DOB i would also take Peavy and specially Becket over Santana. But then again. There is no doubt that this is a big step forward for the mets. Nothing else. The guy is human and there are question marks around pedro and the rest of their staff, specially their bullpen. And if your bullpen sux, it doesnt matter if you have 5 Santantas.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

By LT-AA blogger

January 29, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Wow- just saw the headline, bring on some baseball! This year just got a ton more interesting. While I hate the Mets got Santana, I am glad the Yankees or Red Sox didn’t land him. I’m really F%!#ing sick and tired of both of them buying the roster.

Arent you tired of the muts buying their lineup as well?

By Edgar

January 29, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

This just turns their rotation from “Absolute horror show” into “Good, but fragile.”

They have two shaky young kids and two fragile old guys behind Santana. I’m not exactly quaking in my boots. And you have to look at the ENTIRE 25, their LF isnt Ichiro and their RF isnt Francouer…Schneider doesnt scare anyone. I do think they fleceed the Twins on this trade, it makes them better period.

I don’t know what you guys see, but when I look at our starting lineups and rotations side by side I certainly feel good about our chances to win the East. Obviously this road just got a lot more difficult, but I by no means think that the Mets have the division wrapped up now.

I like our lineup from top to bottom much more than the Mets.Its more complete and has young talent players( KJ, Francouer,McCann, Tex) and not players in decline( Delgado, Castillo,Alou,Schneider,etc) and they have a bullpen with some holes to fill beyond Wagner, Feliciano.

That said, lets kick their a*. I like it when we beat rival teams. Cheers

By Mission

January 29, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, I’ve been reading your blogs for awhile, never posted before but thought it was a fine day to start. I live in Minnesota, big Braves fan along with Twins fan.

I noticed that you stated that the Twins got taken, which is completely true if you think of what they could have gotten earlier, but Bill Smith’s patient approach got messed up when Santana’s agents all of a sudden threaten to use his no-trade clause if he doesn’t get traded asap. Smith had some leverage before because he could take Santana into the season and possibly dangle him at the deadline but essentially that got destroyed when his agents told Smith now or never. The other offers weren’t on the table now so he took the best one that was, rather than keep him and lose him to free agency after the season with nothing to show except draft picks, and the Mets offer was better than two picks.

By uga-brave

January 30, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

the real key for b’macc and francoeur is their .obp. both have to improve in that one area and everything else will take care of itself.

i know that is a extremely obvious but in order to truly reach the next level as hitters they both have to become more patient.

mccaan imo is already the best hitting catcher in the N.L. (i would take him in a hearbeat over russell martin.)

francoeur is more of the wild card. he really could go either way. since he does not steal bases, the power numbers have to improve. francoeur is already a good offensive player but we need him to be great.

he will get 640 at bats so 300 plus total bases would be a nice place to start. i think he should be able to do it. never once have i doubted his desire, just his approach.

By N8

January 30, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

Overlord

“N8 signing Johan is not replacing Glavine, come on, we have to talk with the truth. Talk to yourself…… do you really think having Glavine is the same as having Santana?”

I live in ND. The Twins ARE OUR TEAM (not mine), but I probably have watched Santana pitch (on TV) about 50 times in the last 3 years. I’m not a Twins fan, but I’m a fan of pitching, so I go out of my way to watch him pitch, when given the opportunity. I also don’t consider myself an “expert”. But didn’t take too much to realize that something wasn’t the “same” watching him pitch towards the end of last year.

Maybe he put more pressure on himself, by publicly ragging on Twins management? Maybe he had personal issues? Maybe all of it is “solved”, and I’m off my rocker. But the guy didn’t look like himself for his last 13 starts.

Starts 1 - 20:

20 starts, 7+ hits only 5 times, 7+ IP 13 times, 4+ ER only 4 times.

Starts 21 - 33:

13 starts, 7+ hits 6 times, 7+ IP 7 times, 4+ ER 6 times

Not horribly drastic numbers. But a drop off in consistency, none the less. Would I take him in our rotation? Abso-blanking-lutely!

Now, coincidentally, here are Glavines numbers over HIS final 13 starts:

*13 starts, 6+ hits 9 times (Glavine has ALWAYS given up hits), 7+ IP 4 times (understandable for a 42 year old), 4+ ER 5 times. The difference in Glavine’s and Johan’s 2nd half ERA was about a half a run. Glavines OVERALL ERA for the entire year went up 0.31 of a run on the final day of the season (.1 IP and 7 ER allowed). Going into that game, Glavine’s ERA was 4.14, he ended at 4.45. Again. I’m NOT saying that over the next 6 years, the Mets would’ve gotten the same out of Glavine. But there is a good chance looking at last year’s numbers that the Mets don’t get MUCH more out of Johan NEXT YEAR, than they did from Glavine LAST YEAR.

Johan DID NOT look the same in the second half last year. As I posted earlier, his numbers (other than the half a run difference in ERA), were WORSE than those of Glavine.

Now, Glavine is “coming home”, where he is comfortable, and will be with family. He is going to be paired up with his best friend in the rotation. He is going to be pitching for a manager who shaped him as a man and as a pitcher.

Santana is going to NY, seemingly AFTER the prime of his career (sound familiar?), and quite possibly masking some injury problems. If he thought that pitching in Minneapolis MN, where MANY people choose not to go to games in the summer, because it’s beautiful outside, and they don’t want to watch a game in the worst dome ever built, was pressure packed, wait until he gets to NY.

Don’t get me wrong. LONGTERM, this move favors the Mets. Nothing wrong with the trade. Johan has plenty left, and will figure out the league, and pitching in NY at some point.

I completely, 100 percent, no BS attached, expect him to struggle the first month or two of the season (especially at home), while I think Glavine will duplicate his mediocre numbers that he did last year, which will be a benefit to the Braves, and as I said before: A SIDEWAYS STEP FOR THE METS in 2008.

All bets are obviously off, after that, when more than likely Glavine might retire, and Johan will continue to benefit the Mets.

So…Yeah! I’m comparing the two. Based on the second half of last year, (when Glavine at 42 was allegedly so horrible for the Mets), they were damn near one in the same.

By N8

January 30, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

DOB

It appears by your 10:27 & 11:35 posts, that you agree with my 8:01 post? LOL!

We seem to mimic each other’s thoughts on this. Are you SURE you don’t like Whitesnake? :-)

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

N8 i get your point. It might be as you say. But if Glavine as you said. Long term is not sideways. And dont forget, there is more of a chance for Santana to get back to his old self than Glavine doing so.

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

Tex for a whole year, makes up for Andruw being gone, IMO. Renteria might be missed, but I believe that Escobar will shine this year, and KJ will be more comfy at 2B, making his bat more potent. Francoeur and Mccan will do what they do, which is enough (though I’m sure they’ll both be a little better). The rest of the offense is based on health of Chipper and Kotsay. Because the Diaz/whoever platoon in LF won’t be any worse than it was last year.scoots

We fans always assume that what went bad last year will improve and that what went well will stay the same. Doesn’t usually work that way, but we can always hope. That’s waht spring is all about afterall, huh?

By N8

January 30, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

“Those pesky Mets just scored the bell cow of the free-agent market by acquiring two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana from the Twins.”

That is the caption that reads under the Santana photo, on the Braves page of the AJC site.

DOB, or Carroll, do you think one of the editors or “caption writers” might be interested to know that he was traded for, NOT signed as a free agent? LOL!

Overlord

“And dont forget, there is more of a chance for Santana to get back to his old self than Glavine doing so.”

I can’t argue with that. You’re right. Maybe I’m hoping more than thinking, but did anybody REALLY see Glavine’s 1st year struggles with the Mets coming?

I think Johan’s in for a rude awakening playing in NY on a full time basis. I could be wrong, and will have NO PROBLEM admitting so, when (if) that is the case.

One would have to be silly to suggest that the Mets are not better than they were yesterday. The question is this, though: are they better than they were last year?

I’ll give you a glimpse of hope that might say that they are “barely better”.

As I stated earlier, back in 1992 the Braves finished with 98 wins. They replaced Leibrandt (who at age 35 in 1992, went 15-7 and compiled 193 IP), with Maddux (the reigning Cy-Young winner), who in 1993 for the Braves, went 20-10 and compiled 267 IP.

The “difference” in the standings the for the Braves from 1992 to 1993 was 6 games. Also, as I stated before, it took adding Fred McGriff to the team at the deadline to spark that team to greatness, and one of the best 2nd half runs in recent history.

So, excuse me, if I think the Mets adding a guy who went 15-13 in 219 IP, in place of a guy who went 13-8 in 200 IP, is gonna allow them to RUN AWAY with the division.

That my friend is what I call a “wash”.

Now if the Mets add Arod at the deadline…..LOL!

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

Sorry, I attributed the above to Scoots but I guess it was N8. anyway it wasn’t meant negatively so my brain freeze isn’t catastrophic I hope

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

N8 i agree with you, there is no reason to panic. Adding Santanta is not a lock for the mets as east champs. He is just another pitcher (human by the way) who is about to taste playing for a NY team. That can wear any player as sea water does metal. No matter how good muts get, we still have a solid team that can match most teams head to head. It is good for the braves that the muts get better, it will only put pressure on us to get even better and stay away from average baseball.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

If having Santana makes a team run away with the division how come the twins were not doing so every year??????

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

My Braves look like a 95-100 win team , barring some serious injury to multiple players. Sorry , you will get no knee jerk reaction from this knowledgeable Braves fan. I believe in my team , period.Coach

well I hope you are right, but 10 games better than last season? I seriously doubt it as the teams stand now, and that has little to do with Santana

By BravesAC

January 30, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

It truly bothers me that the Twins didn’t even extract “fair value” for Santana. That will further effect the Braves besides having to face Santana in any possible playoffs. With wildcards, it’s the playoffs (vs a 162 game sched) where a premium power pitcher is worth his weight in gold. And, if, and I said IF, the Mets sign Tex to replace an aging Delgado at 1B, I’ll be watching more ESPN Classic when the Braves matched teams competively on the field AND in the payroll.

By CC Rider

January 30, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

A Different Perspective: The Trade of Johan Santana to the Mets has made the Eastern division a 3-way Dogfight (Oh, Sorry Michael V. didn’t mean to bring up a sore subject. SO, how is life in the big house are you making friends). The 3 teams are extremely close in talent. Mets and Braves rotations best depending on health. Bullpens fairly equal with Braves and Phillies having a little more depth. Lineups: Phillies, Mets core groups of Howard, Utley, Rollins and Reyes, Beltran and Wright are more Dynamic with speed, average and power. Braves lineup is deeper with Chipper, Tex, Franceour, McCann. Benches and injuries may tell the tale. BUT!!!!! THE REAL STORY IS: Yes, the division and wild card in the National League just got tougher, but if the Red Sox had gotten Santana they would have been an almost lock to repeat as World Champions. The season could have been: WE JUST WON THE NLCS! Oh, we have to play the Red Sox in the series? Crap. SO, if we have good health, play are best and advance to the World Series: WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE!!

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this

Interestingly enough , I crunched some numbers and came up with an obvious conclusion. Santana should have no problem winning twenty games for the Mets this season. Notice that I said >SHOULD HAVE<.

His run support in Minnesota was 4.44 per game last season. I broke Santana’s starts into three categories , Quality / Good and Bad. He had 21 quality starts , 9 to the good and 3 to the bad. Santana’s ERA was 3.33

The nearest comparison pitcher for the Mets last season was Oliver Perez with an ERA of 3.56 and the same number of wins at 15 for both pitchers.

But unlike Santana , the run support for Perez was 5.13 per game and he made four fewer starts than Santana. His starts break down like this: 16 quality , 8 good and 5 bad starts.

It doesn’t take a rocket Scientist to figure it out. If Santana gets five runs or more of support over the course of a full season , he will win twenty.

Besides , in 2004 Santana received run support per game of 5.20. The result , twenty wins and a Cy Young. Again in 2006 , he had run support of 5.23 per game , resulting in nineteen wins and another Cy Young.

Then there is of course the absolute freakish accomplishment of 2004. Santana reeled off 21 quality starts and it would have been 22 had his manager not pulled him after five innings in Santana’s last start of the season.

The last pitcher to do this , you ask ? Bob Gibson in 1968 with 22 consecutive quality starts. Nobody else has hit so much as twenty in a row during the last 40 years.

While Josh Beckett has been perfect in the postseason so far (6-0 with an ERA of 1.73) and Jake Peavy along with Brandon Webb are all three great young All-Star pitchers , they are all right handers.

If I had my druthers , I would go to War with the two time award winning Cy Young southpaw that Santana is. And another point , neither of the three aforementioned pitchers can hold a candle to Santana when it comes to his 58 walk/ 220 strikeout AVG. (4 to 1).

Santana has a career winning percentage of .679 , none of the other three have yet to crack .600

I have to rank Santana number one , Beckett number two , Peavy in third and last but not least Brandon Webb.

Chew on it O’Brien.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

Nolie , last season : Carlyle , Redman , Cormier and Davies. This season : Glavine , Jurrjens , Hampton (maybe) and Bennett. It really shouldn’t be that hard to figure out , don’t you think ?

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008), you don’t have to be a jerk about it!

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

Overlord , it’s called the Metrodome or as I like to call it , the big Glad Bag. I don’t have the numbers with me , but believe me , that place is a huge home advantage for the Twins. Away from the dome , they stink. O yea , the Twins have won their division four out of the last six seasons. The Twins will reek this season , no doubt about it.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this

Nolie , my apology if you think I’m being a jerk. I just see the obvious improvement in the Braves starting pitching. Last season , Atlanta couldn’t put five good starters on the mound for the vast majority of the season. Now , they have eight viable starters and the defense will be better.

Offense will score runs , Pitching and Defense will win games.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

Gee , I’m flattered , some loser feels the need to impersonate me. Did you want my autograph too ?

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Nolie , last season : Carlyle , Redman , Cormier and Davies. This season : Glavine , Jurrjens , Hampton (maybe) and Bennett. It really shouldn’t be that hard to figure out , don’t you think ?Coach

well since you chose to answer in that tone I guess we’ll see at the end of the year. If they win 95-100 games with essentially the current lineup, I will be thrilled.. and admit your obvious prognostcatin’ skills. betting I won’t have to though

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008), you don’t have to be a jerk about it!

I did not post this. Sumbodys impersonatin’ me. I’m gonna cry.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this

Over at the Minneapolis Star-Tribune the Santana poll is 21.3 in favor , 78.6 not in favor. Those Twinkies aren’t so dumb after all.

The Twins blog has 823 posts in ten hours , I couldn’t even argue with myself at that pace.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 30, 2008 3:15 AM | Link to this

We have a five year old child going on fifty impersonating bloggers . O’Brien , you know what to do. Time to shut it down and make my rounds.

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 3:15 AM | Link to this

I might have asked for your autograph if you were worth anything, but you are truly looking stupid in this thread.

By Nolie

January 30, 2008 4:15 AM | Link to this

I guess we know who’s gay!iMPERSONATIN’ sATAN

You is just a big ol’ meanie and am hurtin’ my feelin’s. bad on you. my mommy is gonna kick your butt if you keep this up

By David

January 30, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this

Hey Carroll,

The Braves are fooling themselves if they think the back end of their starters can win a WS. A division or WC, yes, but we are relying on SO MANY ifs. Smoltz staying healthy, Hudson staying at his 2007 level, Hampton, Glavine…..too many ifs. And then the pen. I actually like most of the pen and I really thought Soriano was going to be a good starter. But his fastball has NO movement it is WAY too flat. He either needs to learn how to get more movemnet or we have to depend on Gonzalez.

More important question is how good is Marist going to be this year? :-)

By greg

January 30, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this

We now need Hampton to be healthy and effective. Let’s face it, unless James has added another pitch he won’t be effective. If we get 25 starts out of Hampton and 140 games from Chipper, we might be able to hang with the Mets and make a season of it. Otherwise, it’s going to be a very bad summer of watching the Mets build up an insurmountable division lead. Santana going to the Mets for nothing is BAD, people, and there’s no way to sugar coat it. They gave up nothing for the best pitcher in the game. If I were a Twins fan, I’d march on Carl Pohlad’s home. Final thoughts: If the players don’t agree to a salary cap in the coming years, all championships will go to teams in the New York, Boston areas. They will have way too much talent to be challenged. Look at what Boston did to a very talented Colorado in this year’s Series.

By BravesAC

January 30, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

When one thinks of the package the Braves paid for Tex. an unsigned Tex, and the package the Mets paid for Santana, who will be signed, it makes the Braves task seem harder. Salty is better than anyone in the Mets package, not to speak of Andrus. Harrison is at least the equal of the Mets pitcher prospects. Acquiring an ace pitcher is supposed to be the hardest thing in baseball to do, with the scarcity of quality pitching, but if you’re a big money team, all you have to do is wait till stars threaten free agency and then pay 10 cents on the dollar. This, not steroids, is the biggest threat to the game of baseball. A salry cap now or at least end corporate ownership of MLB teams. By the way, all the extra money Liberty was going to pump into the Braves - did it go to Ridgway and/or Resop? If Kotsay’s salary wasn’t being paid by the A’s, even he would have been too expensive to acquire.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Don Colbourne

From your 6:19 post last night to DOB. *I agree they are (overall) a pretty old team, but they did win 88 games last season with alot of the same problems you are predicting for them in 2008… Delgado can’t possibly be much worse in ‘08 than he was in ‘07; Alou only played in like 90 games in ‘07 which is about what I expect from him in ‘08; whoever replaces Sean Green can’t possibly be much of a downgrade; Luis Castillo for a full season (‘08) is an upgrade over Luis Castillo for half a season + Jose Valentin/Ruben Gotay for half a season (‘07). And lets not forget that the real core of their lineup is not old at all: David Wright (25), Jose Reyes (24), and Carlos Beltran (31 in April).

So yes I do believe getting Johan Santana without affecting their major league roster whatsoever makes the Mets the favorite in the NL East; and as close to a “lock” for 95 wins as you can get in the National League.

And I’m not sure why you’re harping on the “back end of the rotation and aging lineup” as the Mets biggest weakness’, I would say it is without question their bullpen…*

Couldn’t agree more. You’ve stated basically what I’ve been saying (including the bullpen issue, but that’s a wild card for every team, every year, closers not withstanding). Unfortunatley, when I state what you did above, folks like DOB just see red and can’t give a reasonable response.

It’s just crazy old Anders shooting from the hip again.

By Shaun

January 30, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Some promising news for the rest of the NL: Santana’s HR rate jumped dramatically in ‘07 to well above ML average.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

LEW

DOB’s words from his 7:46 post last night.

Mets have got a lot of dough and are willing to spend it. They have to, to be a factor in that town.

Sound familiar? I guess we can put that puppy to bed once and for all, unless you want to argue your point with DOB?

By Josh H

January 30, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

I’m not going to play the “Santana will have a bad year” card. Am I personally hoping that he does? Sure. Do I reasonably expect that to happen? No.

Mets definitely got better with this trade. I’m p** at the Twins for basically giving the Mets Santana. If it wasn’t for that no-trade clause, they probably could have gotten a king’s ransom for him in July.

Do I think the Met’s are going to run away with the division? No. Hudson did outduel Santana last year (only to have the game blown by Wickman). But they definitely got tougher.

By BT

January 30, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Can I suggest that your next BLOG be about what we Braves fans can do for entertainment during the baseball season this year.Obviously, Anders, Met Man, and many of the Braves fans already know the division race is over before the season starts. Santana is Koufax, Gibson, Spahn, etc. rolled up into one pitcher. He probably should go ahead and be inducted into the Hall of Fame. We may as well do a Marlins sell off to save money. All is lost!!

By Anders

January 30, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Efrim

The voice of reason as always. Your 9:04 post is excellent. I think you outlined both teams concerns fairly and objectively. All teams have issues (except the Red Sox I guess)

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Jeff R: Looks like the Mets replaced Glavine plus some in Santana.

What kind of diacritical, punctuational, parenthetical, asteristikal marks are we supposed to use for severe understatment like the foregoing?!?!?

Plus some!?!?!?!?! Yeah, I’d guess so.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Anders

Imagine Santana on the Sox? I would be as upset as I have ever been if that happened. Santana, Beckett, Dice-K, Bucholz, and Lester for the next 5 years……

and Boston teams have these two guys named Kevin Garnett and Tom Brady on their two other sports franchises. Sickening.

DOB

I know you would rather have Peavy than Santana. But Peavy isn’t very good in big games either. Check out his postseason stats. Also, his one game against the Rockies last year for the playoff birth was dreadful.

In terms of the regular season, I think it stacks up like this:

1) Santana

2) Peavy

3) Webb

4) Lackey

5) Beckett- Never gives you the innings during the Reg. Season. He is babied. It helps during the post season though.

6) Sabathia

By Shaun

January 30, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little something I posted in response to an article on Dugout Central:

The Atlanta Brave Most Likely To… in 2008

Throw a clubhouse tantrum… Nobody…Bobby Cox won’t allow it

Repeat last years performance… Kelly Johnson

Be booed… Chuck James

Lead the team in Home Runs… Mark Teixeira

Be Mr. Consistent… Matt Diaz

Spend more than a month on the DL… Mark Kotsay

Suffer a season ending injury… Mike Hampton

Spend time on the Richmond/Atlanta shuttle… Martin Prado

Have more playing time than expected… Jordan Schaffer

Lead the league in pinch hits… Scott Thorman

Have a stellar comeback season… Mike Gonzalez

Lead the team in blowing late inning leads… Tyler Yates

Get injured during a post game, on-field celebration… Jeff Francoeur (with a slap to the head)

Take his performance to the next level… Yunel Escobar

Take a step back… Tom Glavine

Become a team leader… Brian McCann

Play more than 3 positions… Omar Infante

Play all 3 outfield positions in one game… Josh Anderson

Become a surprise member of the N.L. All-Star team… Yunel Escobar

Be thankful he’s not in Minnesota… John Smoltz and Tom Glavine…bad memories!

By wiki

January 30, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

You heard it here first….Twins will win more games than the Mets in ‘08. Watch it happen.

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000, randyh—

The Braves’ “counter move” was the pre-emptive trade for Texeira and subsequent (hope against hope) contract extension ngotiated with him.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

After looking deeper into the stats, I would probably have Webb 2nd and Peavy 3rd.

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Anders: I think the Braves might be the biggest loser on this deal. One- The Mets have the premier ace in the division. Two - The Yanks and Red Sox both saved $20+ mil per that can be spent on Tex next off season. Plus Giambi and Manny Ramirez’s contracts are up. Another $20 mil each. You think Boras has done the math on this?

I like you — you’re all right.<<

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

…<<< — those are the marks for sarcasm, right?

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

DOB

I know the Braves chimed in on Haren before he was dealt to the D-Backs. Reports out of Baltimore this morning is that other teams are looking into the Bedard situation. Its probably the Cubs and Reds, or Baltimore just trying to get the Mariners to offer more, but would you be suprised if the Braves called Macphail to ask about what it would take to get Bedard. Like I said yesterday, I would think it would have to take: Schafer, Jurrjens, Lillibridge, and Rohrbough.

I am not saying that they should do this. In my mind they shouldn’t. But I would think they would give the Orioles a call. Maybe they could get it done for less than thought.

By geauxbraves2000

January 30, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Okay fine, I agree with Random and DOB about the “counter move”. I guess I was just frustrated, why I do not know. Maybe at the Twins for giving Santana to the Mets when you know there were better offers out there. Oh well, that’s baseball. Let’s see what the season brings, and let’s get ready for the parade at the end of Oct!!

Geaux Braves!!

By tkg

January 30, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Great trade for the Mets, but there is no need for Braves or Phillies for that matter to panic.

Mets still have tons of questions (Pedro? Perez? El Duque? Delgado? Catcher? Etc.) just like the Braves and Phillies.

I still like Atlanta’s chances in the NL. It should be a fun season.

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Ron Robert: Maybe it’s pie-in-the-sky of me to wish we’d have at least been in discussions. Santana’s don’t come around very often. If they’d have taken that paltry deal from the Mets, we could’ve done that prior to Glavine’s signing, right?

It’s not pie-in-the-sky to think that we could have matched the Mets’ offer, as far as giving up quality prospects — we could have, easily.

What the Braves were NOT willing to do was give Santana the high dollar extension that would have been necessary. They’ve got other things to spend their money on (Texeira, Francoeur, eg).

By McFann

January 30, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Shaun—

That’s great!! Really can’t wait for this season to start!!

Braveheart—

Good post at 11:07. I think you’re correct: McCann’ll have more season’s like 2007 than 2006, or more in between. He’ll prob’ly average something like .280/18/95 each season.

By PatioDaddio

January 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

A starting pitcher is credited with a quality start if he pitches at least six innings and allows three or fewer earned runs.

Santana started 33 games in 2007 and had quality starts in 20 of those games which means he had poor starts in 13 games. His won-loss record was 15 wins and 13 losses. There is that number 13 again.

Smoltz had 26 quality starts out of 32 games Hudson had 25 quality starts out of 34 games Glavine had 23 quality starts out of 34 games Santana had 20 quality starts out of 33 games

Santana, until last year, was the premier lefty in baseball. He was just a stud of a pitcher. Last year showed a different Santana, a more hittable Santana.

If Santana does get his 25 mil per year contract and has the same record as he had with the Twins how much will each of those 13 losses cost?

If he has a duplicate 2008 season as he had in 2007, the Mets will be paying a million plus per Santana win.

Is Santana’s age accurate? Will he rebound to the pitcher he was prior to 2007?

If he struggles in the beginning of 2008 the same way he struggled at the end of 2007 will he be able to handle the New York media’s assault on him?

Santana is one elbow twinge or forearm pop away from being remembered as a former great pitcher and left his team straddled with a long term contract.

Maybe the Mets can get some good insurance on him, because he has thrown a lot of innings in a short career so far.

He started 33 games and gave up a career high 33 home runs. He also had the highest ERA he has had in his short career as a full time starter. It was a brilliant .333 ERA, but it was also his highest.

Santana has 4 years as a full time starter under his belt, 2004, 2005, 2006 and last year 2007.

Bottom line to all this stuff I just flung up against the wall….Is Santana going to be the pitcher the Mets thought they were buying and will he be worth being the highest paid pitcher in baseball this year and years to come?

Damn those are a lot of losses and way too many homeruns for an ace….they truly are. He was so hot and cold last year it was unbelievable.

Maybe there is a reasonable explanation, but it won’t come from here….it will come on the playing field.

I still like what the Braves have done to fill holes.

It will take 20-25 pitchers for these two teams to have a successful 2008 season and I will take our pitching depth over the Mets.

I also like how Smoltz sizes up in a game against Santana. If they ever match up I will put large dollars on Smoltz. He will be pumped.

Of course all this is moot if Santana’s salary demands are not met. Santana knows he can rob the Mets because he has a reported 20 mil per year offer on the table from the Twins.

Santana is in a position to ask for an obscene contract and the Mets have to give it to him……or lose him back to the Twins.

Right now Santana is the most powerful negotiator in baseball. He can and will take the Mets to the bank..that is if the Mets want him to pitch for them.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Morning all,

After and evening to digest this trade, my morning response is WTF?

How can teams like the Angels, Giants, Dodgers, Rangers, Astros, Cardnals, Mariners, Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Yankees, etc, see what the Mets gave up for Santana and be al little sick to their stomach?

I know this is a double edged trade, you give up prospects + 20 million per year for 5-6 years, but come on you get the top lefty in the game who is young to add to your rotation?

I kind of look at this like the Braves adding Greg Maddox to their already good rotation and BAM! you have a great team. Yes, I know that Maddox was a free agent and the Braves did not give up players for him.

It seems to me the package that the Mariners are supposed to be giving Baltimore for Bedard is better than the one the Mets gave the Twins for Santana.

By KC

January 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

I’m absolutely positive now that all of the pre-season prognosticators will be picking the Mets now. I’m also positive that on paper (which is all we can be sure of at this point, of course), New York does not have a better team than Atlanta.

I think the Braves gained an edge over both NY and Phili this winter by fixing the rotation. Now, the Mets have caught up.

The Mets have been talked about as the offensive juggernauts in the NL over the past couple seasons… yet they haven’t been any more productive than the Braves or Phillies. I don’t see any real offensive edge (over their 2 division rivals) for them this year either.

The Braves’ and Mets’ bullpens are very comparable - assuming Soriano picks up where he left off.

And now we have Santana, Pedro, Maine, Hernandez, and Perez

VS.

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton/James/Reyes/Jurjens

I don’t think the Mets rotation looks any better than Atlanta’s.

I would have to call it a bit of a toss up right now between NY and ATL in the NL East. The Phillies had better find some more pitching if they want to avoid being a one-hit-wonder in the east.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

In terms of the division and the Braves, I like our chances.

I think the group of KJ, McCann, Frenchy and Escobar will improve.

Tex and Chipper will be their normal selves.

We need decent production from B. Jones and Kotsay.

The bench needs to be improved a bit.

The BP needs one more tweak.

The rotation should be better than last year and we will hopefully see improvements from Chuckie .

All in all, I think the Braves are on the correct path and have a good chance to contend in 2008 and on.

The long term problem that I see is the rotation, we need a prospect or two with higher ceilings. JJJ and Reyes are #2 or 3 at best. Chuckie, Bennett and Morton are more 3,4 and 5 guys. Hudson has been a 1 but is really more of a 2.

We need a future #1. Those don’t come around very often, but got to be on the lookout!

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

KC

I don’t think think the Phillies care for pitching. They have the best offense in the division, even without Rowand. I think it will come down to the wire once again in the NL East. Should be a fun summer.

Lets sign Tex to an extension so we don’t have to see him in Yankee Pinstripes next year.

By Random

January 30, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Delectable.

That’s just what the Mets’ trade for Santana is — delectable.

Now it will be ever so much sweeter for the Braves to win the division and pennant.

And later, as Santana’s star plummets not even halfway through his contract, as the Mets desperately try to plug the holes of their mortgaged future — then let the good times roll.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 30, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Prefacing my following comments by saying I’m an admitted Francoeur mark, I think Frenchy’s due for a breakout yaar this year. His first full season he concentrated on his power. Last year he learned how to become a smarter hitter (ie: contact hitter) which naturally reduced his power but increased his batting average and OBP. I think this year he combines everything and learns to become the hitter many believed him to be a couple of years ago.

I’m predicting something in the range of 30-35 Hrs; 120 RBI; .285 avg; and .340 OBP. His batting average will take a little bit of a hit with the increased power but his increase plate discipline will improve the OBP. I think a near MVP type season is in the cards. The rbi may be a bit high but I think with Chipper, Tex, and McCann all hitting in front of him and all high OBP guys he will get the opportunities.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Flange1

Kazmir. He’ll get dealt next offseason. He should be the target.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Just for the record, the last time i posted today earlier was the 0121h post, after that i guess you guys have noticed it was some p*** probably from NY.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Efrim,

I AGREE!!!!!

By cricket

January 30, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

N8 I live in ND. Now I understand how you can spend so much time on the blog, nothing else to do in ND, eh? :)

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

So Coach, im sad to say but you were not talking to me, LOL.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Efrim

Kazmir. He’ll get dealt next offseason. He should be the target

Why do you think “Omar The Missaya” held on to Martinez? The Ray’s are gonna want a top prospect for Kazmir. Who ironically was a top prospect of the Mets until that fateful trade.

Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

By Mitchie-san

January 30, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

RANDOM Thanks for the other links, I am at work and cant check them out right now, but I will when I get home. arigato

By 22oz

January 30, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

flange1, the Braves have good pitching prospects in the lower levels that are a few years away, which is what you want since you have Smoltz and Huddy for a few more years left. There’s Jeff Locke, who is comparable to a young Tom Glavine, Cole Rohrbough, a hard throwing lefty with good command, and a Chad Rodgers, who projects as a number 2 or 3 starter. Not to mention there are others who could end up on the back end of the rotation, like a Dustin Evans. So the potential for a return to our formula in the early 90’s is there, its just a couple years away.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 30, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I’m talking to David O’Brien. Yo , until you get this Zoo back under control , I won’t be saying much. This morning my blog name got hijacked , again. O’Brien , clean it up already. I want to talk baseball and not play kindergarten playground hooky.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Anders

Its going to take more than Martinez….and the Mets have absolutely nothing else to offer. Braves do. And Kazmir won’t get dealt in division. So I figure the Braves and Dodgers will be the favorites for his services.

Speaking of the Mets minor leagues, they will have a chance to restock the system with the 18th, 23rd and 33rd picks in this years draft. Of course, the Mets haven’t drafted well in a while. Maybe Omar will change the way they evaluate the draft.

By DAP

January 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

well the braves need hampton to come back and pitch reasonably well in the 4th spot to have a rotation that equals the mets. dont forget, that braves have two guys in smotlz and hudson that can duel santana. hudson had santana beat last year, in fact, when wickman blew it. if hampton makes our rotation, i would say the braves and mets rotations are equal.

By ncscoots

January 30, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

And who says the Mets will even have Martinez left after the trading deadline this year? If they need any kind of quality player, Fernando be gone then and there…no choice. The Mets farm system now looks like “last one to leave turn out the lights”.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Efrim

I was kidding about Kazmir. Braves and Dodgers both sound like logical options.As for the Mets drafting, I expect that because they have to compete with the Yanks in NY they will follow the Yanks and Red Sox lead and start to sign draftees outside MLB’s cost guidelines. I understand that’s how these big market teams have been restocking for the last few years. I don’t follow these types of things very closely but I have heard quite a bit about that over the last year here in NY.

By ncscoots

January 30, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

…And for all the noise of Johan (and I’m sure some here have already made the point), he doesn’t make Pedro healthier, Maine/Perez more experienced, Perez more consistent, or Hernandez younger.

By DAP

January 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

man, i just lost a huge post. is the blog stuck?

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

A lawyer for Andy Pettitte’s former personal trainer said Tuesday he believes the pitcher will tell Congress he discussed human growth hormone with Roger Clemens between the 2001 and 2002 seasons. CBS

Looks like the rocket is coming down in flames, even his friend is helping.

By 22oz

January 30, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

i lost one too. The blog must have hiccupped.

I was saying how the Mets are following the style of the until-recently Yankees of this decade. Trade all your prospects for the big name, as well as signing aging stars to fill the voids. This may do well for the Mets for another season or two, but I expect a big crash in a few years.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

22oz,

Thanks for the response. I know of the guys in the Braves minor leagues and have read a good bit about them too.

Braves are very high on these guys, other teams scouts don’t rate them as highly.

But I agree that we have a “pipeline” of young talent that can hopefully make an impact in the next couple of years.

But I don’t see a #1 in the Braves minor league system. Hopefully one will develop, but I think we will be more likely to sign one as a FA or trade for one.

We will see!

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Anders

You’re right. The Mets have been good citizens in the draft. They have the resources to draft some high end talent by paying above slot prices. They haven’t since paying for Mike Pelfrey a few years back. We’ll see if they do so this year.

The Braves got their 2nd best prospect with last years 14th selection. The Mets very well could restock their system with the 18th(our pick forfeited to them because of the Glavine Tyoe A signing), 23rd, and 33rd picks(compensation pick because of the Glavine signing). Time will tell.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Overlord

If I was the Twins I would have waited until after the Congressional hearings to trade Santana. Pettitte may crack and take personal time etc.. Pettitte is a good and decent guy who has to be under enormous pressure to do the right thing but also feeling the pressure of effectively turning his good friend in to Congress. If this thing turns real ugly I would not be shocked to see Pettitte take a leave or even just retire. Crazier things have happened.

By richbrave

January 30, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Different people who’ve seen him have been posting here about Santana and his current pitching prowess. They seem to be saying “not as good as before” or “just didn’t seem himself when he came back from his injury” I got a feelin’ Santana is not 100% physically. Maybe that’s why the Mets got him on the cheap.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Holy S**. Check the chat out on MLB section of ESPN.com.

This is ridiculous!!!!!

They should not have these chats!!!!

Folks, go on that chat and rip ESPN for even having the thing.

I think the Mets are the favorites, but that is f*** awful. You can’t count the Braves out and have a chat like that. HorseShit.

By Murph

January 30, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien said “If I had to pick today, it’d be a tossup between Phillies, Mets and Braves, probably still giving edge to Phillies and Braves if the Mets don’t do anything else by opening day.”

Are you lost? The Braves strength is their starting pitching as long as it rains three times a week. The Mets have the edge in the starting rotation. (By the way Dave Oliver Perez has had two good seasons, check his 2004 season stats and last year wasn’t too shabby) Smoltz and Hudson are All Star caliber pitchers but I would take Santana and Pedro (Smoltz has just as many health concerns as Pedro).

The Braves do not have an experienced closer and their middle relief is a big question mark. The Braves middle of the infield defense is a question mark. Mark Kotsay is a huge downgrade from Andruw Jones. While the Mets have a balanced lineup, great up the middle defense, a great bench, and an average bullpen (which is the teams weakness).

The Mets also have the 3rd best lineup in the NL behind the Phillie and Rockies. Delgado and Alou are in walk years and Reyes should be better with a full year of Castillo hitting behind him. Injuries are a big concern with Alou, Delgado, Castillo, Pedro, and El Duque but right now the Mets are favorites with the Phillies right behind and the Braves very far behind.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Murph, as the poles are melting, there is a chance it will rain 3 times a week. LOL.

By 22oz

January 30, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

I went over and gave ESPN a piece of my mind, but after i posted i read the bottom section saying they’re not ruling out the Braves-its just an either/or format. Still ridiculous though, i probably would have sent it anyways…

By Vinny Vegas

January 30, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Preseason predictions are just that. How many predicted the Rockies would represent the N.L. in the World Series last year. The N.L. East is up for grabs between 3 teams. The Diamondbacks will be a team to closely watch on taking a trip to the W.S. Also I would not be mentioning the phrase Wild Card and East just yet. The Wild Card will more-than-likely come out of the Western Division. Even the Cubs or Brewers are in grasp of taking the Wild Card. This is what makes baseball entertaining …one truly never knows for sure.

By TheBigDawg

January 30, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Good move by the Mets to pick up Santana. Now we will have a three-way race in the NL East instead of just a Braves-Phils dogfight for the division title.

By Lew

January 30, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

I’m going to point something out and then propose some questions to be answered, Re: The Santana deal.

First-Sanatana is, in essence replacing Tom Glavine in the Mets’ rotation. Just no way getting around it, that’s what the situation is. The question is how much did it improve the Mets as a team?

Now Johan Santana IS probably the BEST LH starter in baseball. I won’t even attempt to dispute this. Over the past three seasons, pitching for some pretty good teams, Santana has averaged a 17-9 record with an ERA of 2.99 and an average of 229IP. Like I said-excellent. But look at what Glavine added to the Mets’ rotation. Over those same three seasons, only two of which were good for the Mets as a team, he averaged 14-9 with 203 IP and an ERA of 4.21. This works out to a difference of a 3-0 average record, with an improvement of 26 IP per year and an improvement of ERA of 1.22 runs per nine.

Now-The questions. 1. Is 3-0 better than Glavine that big an improvement? Is it that much better when you compare TG’s $13 million per compared to JS’s $20-25 mil per?

2.Does the addition of JS help ElDuque avoid injury and add IP to his 140?

3.Does the addition of JS help Pedro come back from 1 1/.2 years of downtime? Does it bring Pedro back to where he was four years ago?

1. Does JS help Oliver Perez achieve stability and a continuity of improvement? (actually he might on this one)

2. Does JS help Moises avoid more injury and help him avoid missing 1/2 a season at age 42?

3. Does JS help fill in for those 23 games missed by DelGado? The 20 something missed by Beltran? Does he play the outfield when both go down at the same time like last year? How about when sub Chavez goes down, too?

4. Does he help make up for the loss of LoDuca and his replacement with a much inferior Schneider?

8.Does JS help the bullpen add much needed arms- Though, yes, those 26 extra innings per season may help a tad?

These are just some questions that need to be answered. You know what my opinion is. What do y’all think? Viewed in these terms, was this such a great acquisition? Does it REALLY help the Mets’ problems?

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Anbody that says the braves are far behind, or even behind the phillies and muts should go visit a shrink. Braves Are loaded, some question marks, but as long as only half of them are answered with a plus theyll give trouble to anyone.

KOTSAY

HAMPTON

JAMES

GONZALEZ

Any combo of 2/4 of those players will do. Hampton and Kotsay is what id say would be best for braves. Gonzo says he feels ready already, so you can count him in earlier than expected. Hampton has not said anything so im worried about him. Wren says he is gettting better, but until i hear it from hampton i think its just Crap. James also says he is ready, but i just dont believe anymore in him.

By Mets-a-tized!

January 30, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Murph, DOB’s not lost. It’s just that, despite all his claims of professional objectivity, he’s a rabid Braves fan.

Gosh, what will we do if Coach makes good on his vow not to return? Actually engage civil discussion, perhaps, unmarred by an egocentric blowhard desperate to lord his superiority over us?

Oh, that’s right — we’ll still have Shaun.

By Billy Walsh

January 30, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Omar the “missya”? Oh..the “messiah” my bad. Its amazing how the twins could have had Hughes/Cabrera or Ellsbury/Lowrie/Lester at one point. Instead they trade an ace for a bunch of prospects that are good at best.

By DAP

January 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Murph The Mets also have the 3rd best lineup in the NL behind the Phillie and Rockies.

wrong. the braves scored more runs than the mets last year. now do you think the mets improved their offense over last year, or do you think you are weaker? id say weaker considering the players youve lost and the ones youve replaced them with. in some cases, youve replaced an old decrepit player by resigning him.

the braves lost edgar and andruw, but im pretty sure we can agree that the braves 2008 lineup looks better than the braves 2007 lineup.

in the NL east i really see the braves as being the most complete team, having the best defense, 2nd best offense (behind the phils) and 2nd best pitching (behind the mets).

mets have the best pitching, but the worst defense AND the worst offense out of the top three NL east teams.

By GermanBravesFan

January 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

If Santana pitched every game against the Braves, I’d be a little worried… But he isn’t, so I don’t think it’s such a big deal!

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Maybe if COACH does not comes back we will call him a MARTYR in the war against AIR HEAD, IGNORANT AND SUBPAR IQ BLOGGERS that come here from the dark side of baseball.

By Lee in S. GA

January 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

I will say I am actually excited more about this team this year than last. Smoltz and Glavine are still both quality pitchers. Hudson seems to be returning to true form. Hampton, IF healthy, is actually a bonus to have. There are more than enough young pitchers to carry the load for the 4th and 5th rotation spots. If the bullpen falters a trade can always be made. Gonzo will be back by midseason also.

Having Tex (batting 4th not A.J.) a full year will do nothing but upgrade the team. McCann and Frenchy are both the envy of many teams. K.J. is overshadowed by these two players. He could possibly be the surprise breakout player for this team this season. The outfield is set with youngsters waiting to step if anyone falters or an injury occurs. Escobar will be fun to watch. Chipper staying healthy of course will be a huge key.

The bench without the likes of Orr, Wilson and Woodward cannot be anything but stronger than last season no matter whom we end up with. Overall I like this team.

By OrlandoFan

January 30, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

This will be an Amazing Race (sorry, CBS)this year. Injuries will be the deciding factor. Healthiest team will win. Take any one key player/pitcher from his team, and it dilutes the situation dramatically. No Chipper or Tex or Smoltz, trouble for the Braves. No Rollins or Myers, trouble for the Phils. No Pedro or Reyes or Wright, ditto the Mets. One goes down, so will that team. I wouldn’t be surprised if 85-88 victories won the division this year. It will be that close.

By DAP

January 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

LEW the mets getting santana helps them with of their many problems, yes. like ive said many times before, the mets just have too many holes, theres no way they can fill all of them.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

DAP:

Muts have the best pitching? I guess you are forgetting SP + RP = Pitching staff. I suppose you meant best SP. And even that is not true 100%.

By McFann

January 30, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I’m excited about this year’s team, too, Lee. And the more we type about it, the more excited I become!!

JANUARY IS ALMOST OVER!!!!

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

I have memories of Utley going down and the phillies didnt miss a step.

By KC

January 30, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Efrim: I agree… I think it’s going to be a tight race this year. Looking at it now, I would still have to expect the Phillies to be the first team knocked out of the race, but they’ll be good too.

I’m just disagreeing in advance with all the writers who will inevitably call the Mets the “favorites” to win the East after the acquisition of Santana.

I think this trade caught the Mets up with the Braves, and that the Phils are lagging behind both teams a bit right now (on paper, of course).

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Murph, DOB’s not lost. It’s just that, despite all his claims of professional objectivity, he’s a rabid Braves fan Mets-a-tized

You got me, metsatized.

Actually, I’m supposed to be taking vacation days. I was getting all my stuff together to take to my tax man (gotta do them every year before spring training, since things get a bit busy for us in mid-February). That and enjoying, oh, life, you know hanging out with my girlfriend, watching last night’s House on DVR, etc.

Also spent an hour or so on the phone with Comcast trying to find someone with a clue who could hook me up with the one-day ESPN Fullcourt package so I could watch tonight’s KU-Kansas State game. Took awhile, but got it.

My boys are gonna have a very, very tough time staying unbeaten tonight, because the folks over in Manhattan, Ks., are extremely fired up about their nationally-ranked Wildcats’ chances of finally ending one of the more amazing streaks going, KU’s 24-year winning streak vs. K-State in Manhattan.

See, Metsasized, I’m an unabashed fan of one team, and one team only — my alma mater, KU. Though I do also like the Celtics a whole lot, which isn’t a problem since I don’t cover the NBA.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Are you lost? Murph

No, but you clearly are, especially using that screen name and spouting such tripe.

Delgado and Alou are in walk years and Reyes should be better with a full year of Castillo hitting behind him. Murph

Memo to you, snarky one: Alou is 41 and has played fewer than 100 games each of the past two seasons. A “walk” year? Please. He’ll be signing a one-year contract with someone in ‘09.

And Castillo? Dude, your Mets have a different player than the Marlins and Twins had all those years. I like Louis. Great dude. But he’s a shell of his former self, since having hip surgery and other injury problems.

The man had TOTALS of 25 extra-base hits and 19 steals last season, and his OBPs of .358 in 2006 and .362 in 2007 were his lowest since 1998.

Those would be good OBPs — for a player with a bit of pop. Not for one who neither hits home runs (one last season), steals bases (caught in six of 25 attempts) nor piles up doubles (19).

By DAP

January 30, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

overlord yeah i was referring to starting pitching. and with the santana trade, i think the braves are a close 2nd the the mets in that dept. i didnt consider the relief, which would probably even it up in my mind. we have a good bullpen. what a ride 2008 is going to be.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

The ESPN Jayson Stark chat is just ending.

Quite a joke if you ask me. Talk about attitude, I think I will pass on Jayson in the future….

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I know the Braves chimed in on Haren before he was dealt to the D-Backs. Reports out of Baltimore this morning is that other teams are looking into the Bedard situation. Its probably the Cubs and Reds, or Baltimore just trying to get the Mariners to offer more, but would you be suprised if the Braves called Macphail to ask about what it would take to get Bedard. Efrim

ME: Yes, I would be surprised.

Like I said yesterday, I would think it would have to take: Schafer, Jurrjens, Lillibridge, and Rohrbough. Efrim

ME: You can not be serious … can you? Oh, my. Why on earth would the Braves give up all that for Bedard when they don’t consider rotation a need for the coming season?

You’re talking about giving up a player they believe will be their standout CF for most of a decade (Schafer) along with a pitcher (Jurrjens) they project as an eventual No. 2 starter, plus another versatile talent (Lillibridge) who could be in the lineup in a year or at least a valuable super-utility type player they once thought DeRosa would be (and has become, elsewhere)? Oh, and sure, why not throw in another lefty (Rohrbaugh) who could be less than a year away from the majors?

Dude, you’d be great at gutting a franchise.

By MGL

January 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

There is no question that Santana improves the Mets. However, I hardly think that is is reason to panic. The 2008 Braves have 3 starters that had more quality starts and a higher QS % than Santana(Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine). Both teams had similar offensive and defensive numbers last year, and I think that the Braves did a little better in off-season lineup moves.

I agree with a couple of people that injuries on any three teams could be difference makers. I’m like this team and their chances.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Just read your response to Efrim, do the Braves see Lillibridge as a super-utility player or a starter?

By Random

January 30, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san—

Doitashimashite.

Ganbatte, ne.

By MGL

January 30, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

A different way of looking at this that was pointed out on bravesjournal.

Over 2007 starting rotation, the Mets lost Glavine and picked up Santana. The Braves lost Redman and picked up Glavine. Who”s better off?

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

Like I said yesterday, I would think it would have to take: Schafer, Jurrjens, Lillibridge, and Rohrbough.

This is what I said right after man.

I am not saying that they should do this. In my mind they shouldn’t. But I would think they would give the Orioles a call. Maybe they could get it done for less than thought.

I know you have a TON to read. But if you are going to post a response, just please take into account that last part.

And for the record, if the Mariners are giving up Adam Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and two other prospects, the Braves proposal I posted is its equivalent. That is why I threw those prospects out there. Again, should they do it. NO WAY. But maybe they like a few Braves prospects more and maybe it would cost less than the 4 prospects I named.

By Robert (Chippper Is The Best)

January 30, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, you are totally right. Bedard is good but not that good. Apparently, the O’s are quite the idiots the Twins are and are demading true value for their ace. No way should the Braves make such a deal unless the O’s would accept Reyes, Hernandez, Diaz, and Prado or B. Pena and since I seriously doubt they would accept such an offer I don’t see any trade being imminent.

I have to wonder why the Twins didn’t insist on Jose Reyes or John Maine? Philip Humber? WTF?! I just don’t see why the Twins would take such a lowball offer. I will give Minaya credit. He took the Twins to the cleaners.

By Braves20

January 30, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Give the devil his due. The Santana trade all comes down to “are the Mets better than they were 24 hours ago?” Markedly.

Question remains will the trade pan out in the long run? Current management (GM and manager) doesn’t care - because if they don’t win this year, certainly one and maybe both will be gone.

Does the acquisition mean a walkover for the Mets in the East? Hardly.

By TennesseePaul

January 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Where is the refreshments counter? I haven’t had my share yet of the beverages.

Does the Santana trade make the Mets better? Of course it does. They’ll have him for many more years to anchor that rotation. The hope is the same with all new acquisitions, that he remains healthy and effective.

As it stands now though the Phillies are still the team to beat. They have the division title. Some other team must take it from them. Some other team must out play the reigning champs. And those Phillies did well with their team this year. This isn’t Ed Wade’s Phillies any more. They needed better pitching, preferably on the young side and they acquired a young closer to allow them to move their young 2007 opening day starter into the rotation behind one of the better young lefties in the game. And the Phillies offense is still looking strong despite the loss of Rowand they still have MVP Rollins, Utley and Howard. Does Johan make the Mets offense better than the Braves? No. Does it make their rotation better than the Braves? It’s possible assuming health.

In 2007 the Braves ranked 3rd in the league in team ERA above both the Mets and the Phillies. The Braves ranked 4th in the league in batting average, behind the Mets (2nd) and just ahead of the Phillies (5th) by .0007 points. In SLG, the Braves ranked 6th just ahead of the Mets (7th) by .0024 points and well behind the Phillies (1st) by .023 points. In OBP, the Braves ranked 4th right behind the Mets (3rd) by .003 points and the Phillies (2nd) by .014 points. And in runs the Braves finished 3rd, 82 behind the first place Phillies and 6 above the 4th place Mets.

What does all this mean? The one thing that mattered most, the Braves finished 3rd behind the 2nd place Mets and 1st place Phillies. The Braves should be able to put the pressure on these two teams for an exciting season. But the Phillies rotation improved and the Mets rotation improved and as Braves fans we should all know it’s about the pitching… But I’m very eager to read the spin on how Santana is on par with Glavine. That’s just good stuff.

I don’t see a clear cut favorite in this division and I still don’t think any NL East team is better than a few of those NL West teams. But that said I give the “Team to Beat” title to the reigning champs. I feel I must. After 14 years of watching the national press claim some other team was the team to beat despite the fact the Braves kept winning, I must honor my own standard. So the Phillies it is. I’m still not sold that this Braves team is going to be able to win it all (World Series, not just division) this year, or that it is built to continue winning at the highest level for years to come. I could see it maintaining the level of production it put out in 2007. If the rest of the division fluctuates they could catch a break here or there. But whatever, I’m ready for ball to start. Just a few more weeks and the Dirtbags take the field…

By Panic

January 30, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Hello, Braves/MIB Blog. I just thought I’d introduce myself since I’ve already settled in here.

By BB FAN

January 30, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Murph,

“Smoltz has just as many health concerns as Pedro”

That is ridiculous. Smoltz has pitched over 200 innings each of the last 3 years. Pedro has pitched a total of 160 innings combined the last two years. Smoltz is a workhorse # 1 starter. Martinez is a 5 inning # 3 starter.

“The Braves do not have an experienced closer and their middle relief is a big question mark.”

The Braves had one of the best bullpens last year. Losing Villerreal and Mahay is not going to make a difference as they have been replaced. Ohman was great outside of Wrigley Field last year. And Bennent, Boyer, James, or Jurjens will be fine in long relief.

“The Braves middle of the infield defense is a question mark.”

The Braves were 9th in team fielding while the Mets were 15th. Who’s got the question marks on defense?

Kelly Johnson was solid on defense for his FIRST year at 2B. He’ll only get better. And Escobar is as good defensively as most at SS. He has better range than most as well.

David Wright on the other hand is a horrible defensively at 3B. He ranks 5th worst in all of baseball. What a joke.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Flange1, based on my conversations with Braves folks about Lillibridge, I’d say it could still go either way, lineup regular or super-utility type.

They’re gonna wait and see how he develops, and how their needs develop.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Lew I’d like to propose something of my own and then you can answer some questions. How on earth did the Mets get Santana? According to you - The Mets have nothing of any value that the Twins or anyone else would want in their farm system. According to you - The Red Sox would just sell some more hats and take Santana no matter what the additional cost ramifications would be to their team. According to you - The Yanks would get Santana before they let the Mets have him. According to you - The Mets are full of it as far as spending the kind of money Santana reportedly wants.

Me - I’ve said for months now that I don’t think the Sox or Yanks really want him and Omar Missaya would be better off waiting out the Twins and not throwing his last chip in. Plus I said the Mets have and will spend what it takes to get him. I also said in the last month or so that it will come down to Santana asking for a resolution to force this along which is exactly what happened. The only suprise I had was that Martinez wasn’t in the deal in the end.

Today we settle all family business on this. You need to answer for Santana Lew. Your not off the blog Lew, no - your punishment is you get to watch Santana win a Cy Young in a Mets uniform. But don’t tell me you weren’t dead wrong on this from the beginning because it insult’s my intelligence.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Coach, sorry for the late response to that post. I wasn’t online last night and just got to it today. Post has been removed, and IP address has been forwarded to the folks who do the banning.

By DonCoburleone

January 30, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Hows this for a scary thought?

Johan Santana’s career numbers against the NL: 182.7 IP / 16-4 / 2.27 ERA / 191 K / 46 BB

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Panic, that’s a classic post.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

DOB…… did you do the same to the IP that posted earlier as overlord? before sunrise.

By Jon

January 30, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Hey David, what did you think of last nights episode of House? I thought it was one of the best yet, I mean, come on, breast cancer in the back of the knee, who would have known? No one but House, lol. Love that show.

By TennesseePaul

January 30, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

You’re talking about giving up a … pitcher (Jurrjens) they project as an eventual No. 2 starter

I guess I miss this logic. Wouldn’t Bedard be this number 2 guy for the immediate future? So they give up an eventual possible #2 starter who is a prospect for a sure bet #2 Major League pitcher. And for two years of service. Ample time to possibly extend a longer term deal.

I don’t think the Braves are going for Bedard. It’d be one helluva move if they did. But I don’t think they will nor do I think they would be willing to give up that much. But trading Jair plus some collection of others for Bedard wouldn’t be a bad trade assuming the “others” aren’t the rest of the top talent in the farm.

By flange1

January 30, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Here you go again…

“I was right, I told you, you should have listed to ME, I know EVERYTHING about the Braves and the mets, blah blah blah”

How about just shutting up and going away? Please?

Yes, the mets just got Johan (if they pay him). I don’t understand why the Yankees and Red Sox backed off instead of picking up the best LH in baseball. It is not a logical thing to do.

Omar got lucky. You offer an inferior package for a player and get him. That takes brains? no, just luck.

Sorry, no kudo’s for Omar.

As my friends in Columbus Ga would say, “hey Omar, lets go down to Victory Drive and look for wallets.

Luck and ability are 2 different things.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

Just for the record, I said that the Braves shouldn’t even make the Bedard move, but DOB missed the comments that I wrote right after that.

But while your talking about it, didn’t we “gut” the franchise for Tex? Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, and Beau Jones were all highly thought of as well. We seemed to rebound well and now have the #8 ranked minor league system according to Baseball America.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

“watch Santana win a Cy Young in a Mets uniform.”

Could you please tell us in what year will this happen, so we all can pay attention and watch every game he pitches???

LOL, please, tell me that was just a joke. Wanting so bad this Santanas Cy Young just tells how frustrated you are about last 20 years. And it is a disrespect to the top ten pitchers in the NL, including Smoltz and Hudson. Do i have to remind you that Cy Youngs are won on the field, pitching and stuff and not based on history???? and to make it worse, history in a different league.

The guy is has a chance to do it, but he has the same chance as Brad Penny or Schmidt or Webb or Zambrano or Zito, etc. So PLEASE dont punish out felow Lew that fast. Youll get your chance to shout it in our faces if it happens, but just remember ……never spit toward the sky, it can fall into your face. In other words, maybe your punishment will be watching Glavine win Cy Young in Braves uniform.

2008 how sweet it could become.

By Robert (Chippper Is The Best)

January 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Right now I would give the Mets a slight edge in the NL East race but it is a minute edge. I think if Hampton is really truly healthy then the Braves just might have the edge rotation wise. I worry about Chuck James but facts are facts and the kid has won 11 games each of his first two seasons in the majors and likely would’ve won 13 or 14 last year had he not missed starts due to the shoulder.

I really don’t see how the Phillies are a favorite. Acquiring Lidge is one of the moves that is a “wait and see” thing. Lidge in that park is a bit scary to me. I can easily see him falling apart and the Phils being forced to put Myers back in the closer role.

This should be one helluva race and don’t discount the Nats. They won’t win the division but they sure could decide who does.

By Thrillhouse44/Panic

January 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Hopefully I lightened the mood for a moment.

The Santana signing is huge for the Mets, but Braves Nation shouldn’t get too worried yet. The man only plays every 5th day. Plus, there will be a period of adjustments (happened to Tim Hudson, Barry Zito, and Mark McGwire when they first came to the NL). In no way does this move guarantee anything - especially a Cy Young, Anders. Let’s wait until the season plays out (or at least starts) before anyone crowns NY as the champ…after all they only have one David Wright.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

How about this for a punishment Anders…….”Maybe youll get to see Glavine win the division or ALCS clincher against your mets, oh, and in a braves uni of course”.

By Edgar

January 30, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

So I’m perfectly willing to concede that the Braves could end up being better than either of these teams. Heck, they’ll take 10 legitimate big-league starting pitchers to camp.

Jason Stark comments on his blog about braves, mets, phillies.

By TennesseePaul

January 30, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Yes. That is a good point. But for some reason it is greated with gasps, weeping and gnashing of teeth if brought up. The Braves could survive, they have in the past, by trading young prospects for proven major league talent.

By MetsPussycat

January 30, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

By MGL

January 30, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

A different way of looking at this that was pointed out on bravesjournal.

Over 2007 starting rotation, the Mets lost Glavine and picked up Santana. The Braves lost Redman and picked up Glavine. Who”s better off?

ANSWER= METS!

By MetsPussycat

January 30, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

“By BT January 30, 2008 9:01 AM DOB, Can I suggest that your next BLOG be about what we Braves fans can do for entertainment during the baseball season this year.Obviously, Anders, Met Man, and many of the Braves fans already know the division race is over before the season starts. Santana is Koufax, Gibson, Spahn, etc. rolled up into one pitcher. He probably should go ahead and be inducted into the Hall of Fame. We may as well do a Marlins sell off to save money. All is lost!!”

EPIC POST! LETS GO METS!!!!

By Random

January 30, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

McFann — you are such a girl.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse

Anders. Let’s wait until the season plays out (or at least starts) before anyone crowns NY as the champ…after all they only have one David Wright.

I’ve consistently said it’s going to be a three team race even before the trade. I still think it’s a three team race but the edge swung to the Mets. Not a huge edge - but an edge. Folks like Lew continue to harp on these major holes the Mets have and how they have no shot. Apparently the rest of the professional baseball media doesn’t see what these braniacs do.

1/29/08 will go down as a “Day In Met Infamy”. Of course this is because Sir David Wright received the Bart Giammati award from MLB last night. I hear Chipper is upset he was passed over, again.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

I think Bedard is making something like 8 million in 2008, so they would have to take that on. He is a very good pitcher. The sort of ace the Braves will need in 2009.

Personally, I think they should hold onto their chips, but the trouble with that is what happens if guys like Schafer, Hanson, Locke, Rohrbough, and Hernandez have down years? I mean, none of them have had a Double A at bat or inning pitched. It is a risk to think that they could be able to contribute at a high level for the big club in 2009. But that is why I love keeping track of prospects. The progression and regression is interesting.

By Lew

January 30, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Anders-I have to answer for Santana? Dude, you really need psychiatric evaluation-the sooner, the better. Do I need a Restraining Order?

The Mets are still a third place team with him-Cy Young or no (we’ll just have to see how he adjusts to NY and the NL). The only reason they even got the guy for that package of second rate prospects (though I know they were the best you had to offer), was because the Yankees and RedSox didn’t want him that bad. They don’t need him-especially at the cost of mortgaging their respective futures. As usual, the Mets are third best option or worse.

I’ve pointed out your shortcomings many times in the past (as have those important clients you service, I’m sure). I’m not going to expound upon them again. Let the games begin. We still have a better rotation, bullpen, bench, depth and team in general. So do the Phillies.

Even NoBrainZone hasn’t been here beating it’s chest. Even MetroDude was amazingly subdued last night. I wonder why? Even Sniper69 hasn’t shot off his mouth, either. Could it be because this move was the equivalent of the Rangers signing ARod? Could be. It’s a very real possibility. Let me know how well Santana does filling the one, three and four slots in the rotation after Pedro and ElDuque go down. I’m sure you can use those extra 26 innings he provides over Glavine.

By Lee in S. GA

January 30, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Of course the Santana deal has the Mets fans excited and so they should be. The Braves pitching improved also. We needed a solid # 3 and got him. Our 1, 2 and 3 starters will be fine. The turning point determining the Division championship for the Braves could be the improvement and consistency coming from the 4th and 5th spots more than the Mets acquiring this guy.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Overlord

How about this for a punishment Anders…….”Maybe youll get to see Glavine win the division or ALCS clincher against your mets, oh, and in a braves uni of course”.

You better hope they clinch in August then. - Know what I mean?

By OrlandoFan

January 30, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Good point a little early by TennPaul…. There’s so much balance. This will come down to health (as was stated earlier) and head-to-head games.

By Shaun

January 30, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Braves had the best run differential in the NL East and the 3rd best in the NL last season and improved several of their weak spots and overall probably won’t decline. The Mets had the worst run differential of the NL East’s Big Three. Their core is young but they aren’t getting any younger at a few of the key offensive positions (1B, COF), plus their pitching staff isn’t anything to write home about after Santana and Billy Wagner.

I think it will be a tight race all season between the Big Three again because the Mets’ three young stars are so good and Santana is Santana, but I don’t think this move puts the Mets head and shoulders above anyone.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Overlord, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Turns out the loser posted about 10 times as four or five different people after midnight.

Which is good for us — no better way to get banned. I don’t even have to make a case, just present all his various misrepresentations.

By DAP

January 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

if/when injuries hit, i think its safe to say that the mets will hurt more than the braves or the phils. thier lack of depth will be an issue. the braves are just younger and less likely to get injured, and the phils are just so tuff everywhere that a missing peice here or there aint gonna show much.

By McFann

January 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Random. I’ve been on this blog for three months and you’ve deduced that? How perceptive. LOL!!

I also really like McCann. : )

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Anders get over it, Glavine collapsed in september cause even he hate the mets. Dont you get it, not even the gods like you!!!!!! What i hope is that your team is still in the fight in september so Glavine can bury them.

By MetsPussycat

January 30, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

“By BT January 30, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this DOB, Can I suggest that your next BLOG be about what we Braves fans can do for entertainment during the baseball season this year.Obviously, Anders, Met Man, and many of the Braves fans already know the division race is over before the season starts. Santana is Koufax, Gibson, Spahn, etc. rolled up into one pitcher. He probably should go ahead and be inducted into the Hall of Fame. We may as well do a Marlins sell off to save money. All is lost!!”

-EPIC POST! GREAT JOB! Might I suggest cooking classes? lol

“By Random January 30, 2008 10:29 AM Delectable. That’s just what the Mets’ trade for Santana is — delectable. Now it will be ever so much sweeter for the Braves to win the division and pennant. And later, as Santana’s star plummets not even halfway through his contract, as the Mets desperately try to plug the holes of their mortgaged future — then let the good times roll”

-LOL…Good job! Another motivating post from a Braves fan! However if you actually believe your own ridiculous comments then I have some swamp land in Gwinnett county to show you! Braves win what division? Are you moving to the NL Central? Santana’s star plummet? You must mean his horoscope wasnt good today! Santana is rated to be one of, if not the best LHP in the NL right now! As a proud METS fan but a realistic baseball fan I’ll say we all know how seasons can pan out..injuries, sabaticals, wheels and deals that happen thruout the season! We all go into the seasons with high hopes for our squads whether your a METS fan or a Braves fan or a Phillies fan, same high hopes! One player does not a WS ring get achieved but with Santana in the METS rotation we have just stepped that much closer to it and everyone knows it! LETS GO METS! METS 2008!!

By Anders

January 30, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Lew

Apology accepted.

By Niels Boor

January 30, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Anders was right; Lew was wrong.

(Sorry, Lew.)

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Youre welcome DOB.

I think the phillies just got in a roll last year like the rockies.

BTW, why is it that phillies fans dont come to this blog?

By MetsPussycat

January 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

“By Overlord January 30, 2008 3:51 PM Anders get over it, Glavine collapsed in september cause even he hate the mets. Dont you get it, not even the gods like you!!!!!! What i hope is that your team is still in the fight in september so Glavine can bury them.”

Overlord….At least you admit that Glavine’s Sept performance was bull-s**! He hates the METS! And the METS fans hate him! We cant wait to boo his sorry A$$ right off the mound this season! You hope the METS are still in the fight in September? Glavine bury the METS? Are you kidding? Get a clue dude! You better hope to be second in the NL East behind…THE METS! As for Glavine the only thing he will be burying is his head when he has to face us!

LETS GO METS!!!! METS 2008!!

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

“As a proud METS fan but a realistic baseball fan I’ll say…..”.

Im surprised you still have any proud after “THE COLLAPSE”. Good for you. Keep the hard work.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

MetsPussycat its easy to know Glavine hate the mets, i read his IQ is 105, it is a standard that anybody with a normal IQ hates the mets.

By BB FAN

January 30, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Santana has been great for 3 or 4 years. However, his second half from 2007 should be scary for Mets fans…he was like 5 and 7 with a ERA over 4.00. That is not good news if it continues. He was almost as bad as Glavine was his last 3 starts as well.

By Anders

January 30, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Overlord

Because Philllie fans don’t know how to work a computer. Have you ever been to a Phillie home game? How about an Eagle game? It’s like one large work release program.

BTW- I agre with you on the Phillies. I’m not sold on them. I think they’re a real athletic team but I just don’t view them as cohesive professional bunch. They got just hot enough when the Mets collapsed. They won it fair and square but I don’t think they established themselves as the Division king is all.

By i cant take it anymore

January 30, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

hero’s get remembered, but legends never die

By JC FROM UT

January 30, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

OVERLORD: I have lived in the Philadelphia area for nearly 15 years and in my experiences with Philadelphia sport fans, we shpuld all be grateful that they do not visit this blog.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

I can understand what you are saying JC

By BT

January 30, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I probably haven’t get up with the Twins the last few years. Since Santana has been the greatest pitcher of all time and a one man team, can you remind me of how many division titles or World Series rings the Twins won?

By Lew

January 30, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Anders-I’ve said nothing to apologize for. As far as I’m concerned you can wallow in your delusion. I assure you it won’t affect anything in my life if you do or not.

By Efrim

January 30, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

DOB

ME: You can not be serious … can you? Oh, my. Why on earth would the Braves give up all that for Bedard when they don’t consider rotation a need for the coming season?

You’re talking about giving up a player they believe will be their standout CF for most of a decade (Schafer) along with a pitcher (Jurrjens) they project as an eventual No. 2 starter, plus another versatile talent (Lillibridge) who could be in the lineup in a year or at least a valuable super-utility type player they once thought DeRosa would be (and has become, elsewhere)? Oh, and sure, why not throw in another lefty (Rohrbaugh) who could be less than a year away from the majors?

Dude, you’d be great at gutting a franchise.

Great at gutting the franchise? Kind of like picking certain things out of people’s posts, and turning them around on them. Then saying I would be “great at gutting the franchise”.

This was the comment you missed at 9:42 AM. It was right under the comment that you used to attack my a*:

I am not saying that they should do this. In my mind they shouldn’t. But I would think they would give the Orioles a call. Maybe they could get it done for less than thought.

By the way, I am reposting this from an earlier post at 2:22 PM. Just trying to clear the misunderstanding. I guess it is the way I post things. I’ll try to be more clear in the future.

By MetsPussycat

January 30, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

“By Overlord January 30, 2008 4:12 PM “As a proud METS fan but a realistic baseball fan I’ll say…..”. Im surprised you still have any proud after “THE COLLAPSE”. Good for you. Keep the hard work.”

-Always proud! Never hard to be a METS fan! Always easy to laugh at your stupid comments though!

“By Overlord January 30, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this MetsPussycat its easy to know Glavine hate the mets, i read his IQ is 105, it is a standard that anybody with a normal IQ hates the mets.”

LOL..Such typical nonsense remarks from you….

LETS GO METS!!!

By Edgar

January 30, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

DOB

Would you be surprised if the Braves trade for a No.1 or No.2 guy say a: Joe Blanton, Erik Bedard( if not traded), Rich Harden, Bronson Arroyo,among others at the Trade Deadline or before.

By richbrave

January 30, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

JC:

Right on bro’. Phillie fans are like the Phanatic - a wild and crazy bunch, and like the Metropolitan fans - drunk, fat, and stupid enough to be clueless as to when its time to go home. Get a real life.

By TommyP

January 30, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

**DOB: Thanks for the tutorial in sophisticated statistical analysis, Tommy. Those 30 dingers, pretty much all you need to know, huh?

Let’s see: At 24, Wright hit .325 (seventh in the NL) with a .416 OBP (fourth in the NL) and .963 OPS (eighth in the NL), and in close and late situations he hit .346 (27-for-78) with a 1.037 OPS.

He had 42 doubles and 30 homers for the season, and in the second half hit .364 with a .465 OBP.

Yeah, you’re right. For a 24-year-old, those stats weren’t too phenomenal.

Good point. After all, he only hit 30 dingers.**

So you gotta be a smartass even when you were wrong. Love the added “For a 24 year old…” to your retort. You never said that in your iniitial post. But you sure added it, didn’t you?

So, as I stated, “phenomenal” is pretty strong for Wright’s season last year. Do I look only at home runs? No, not at all, but a “phenomenal” season for a slugger wouldn’t have 30 dingers.

Every single season Wright’s numbers have slowly increased. Like I said, I think we all should expect for him to repeat or better those numbers again this season, unlike you.

“Sophisticated statistical analysis?” Grow up, man. Ya know, they have medication for bi-polar disorder, don’t you?

By McFann

January 30, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

“Sophisticated statistical analysis?” Grow up, man. Ya know, they have medication for bi-polar disorder, don’t you?

Ouch, TommyP. That was mean.

By Wayne in Utah

January 30, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Great news, blogging friends! Rudy G and John E have both endorsed me to be the independent nominee for the office of King of the World.

If elected, I will lower prices of tickets to all baseball games plus all food sold at the park to the prices that were charged when I was a baby, way back in 1955!

Also, I will instruct Bud Selig to invalidate the Santana trade to the Muts, and instead, require them to trade him to the Braves for Martin Prado, Scott Thorman, Chris Woodward (we will have to sign him to a minor league contract), Buddy Carlyle, and an unknown prospect, Elvis Saltalamacchia, and hard throwing switch-pitcher. He goes both ways!

Santana will then sign a lifetime contract with open ended terms, to be determined by his performance each year. He is a reasonable man, you know.

Whaddya think?

By TommyP

January 30, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

McFann: How? Read the crap he dishes out on others. I’m sick of the condescending remarks. The sarcasm is so juvenile.

People that feel the need to make others look bad when making a point? Well, says a lot about their own self-esteem.

By Wayne in Utah

January 30, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Hi McFann! How’s things? I see that there seems to be a lot of sniping and name copying overnight.

Some folks need a better hobby!

:-)

By TommyP

January 30, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Concerning the Santana deal:

I would have to make them the frontrunner right now in the East with Santana. Adding him changes so many things for this team. I can’t remember who said that the Mets aren’t that much better because of this but I can’t see that line of thinking no matter what angle I look at it. Let’s look at position by position:

C: Schneider over Loduca - Loduca’s offense really fell and his defense has never been anything special. Schneider has never been much of a hitter but he’s a defensive minded catcher. Plus, his numbers should improve since he’s out of the caverns in Washington. (PUSH)

1B: Delgado - You can say that Delgado is a shell of what he used to be but he sure raked last year from July on. Bad year or declining career? Tough to tell but his 2nd half looked a lot like what we’re used to from him. (PUSH)

2B: Castillo - The guy was better in the NL after the trade. In 199 at bats with the Mets, he hit .296, had a .371 OBP and chipped in 10 steals. Not as bad as some lead you to believe. (PUSH or better with a full year of Luis)

3B: David Wright. ‘Nuff said. (Slightly better this year….AGAIN.)

SS: Reyes. ‘Nuff said….again. (PUSH)

LF: Alou/Chavez - You can count on outstanding production from Alou when he’s not injured. Chavez fills in nicely. (PUSH)

CF: Beltran - Probably get the same production. (PUSH)

RF: Church over Shawn Green - Green has been a liability for years now as a regular. Church is much younger and has had a better OPS the past 3 seasons…while playing in Washington. (UPGRADE)

Rotation: UPGRADE BIG TIME. Santana not only adds possibly the top pitcher in the game but he pushes everyone back a spot in the rotation which is huge.

Johan #1 - Unreal. Especially now vs. an NL slate. Pedro #2 - Only health will determine his fate. Looked pretty good late last season. Maine #3 - That’s now a year and a half of VERY solid pitching from Maine. Should definitely continue. O.Perez #4 - Excellent year last year and his turnaround started in the postseason of ‘06. How many #4 starters had better numbers than him last year? El Duque or Pelfrey - #5 - It’s a crapshoot when you talk 5th starters but they have a potential very good young arm and a vet that has been through the wars…in New York.

This is the NL East frontrunner. They’ve stayed the same at each position or improved.

By McFann

January 30, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Some folks need a better hobby!

So true, Wayne. And that sure wasn’t me who did that, if that’s what you gettin’ at. I wouldn’t stay up that late for anything…’sept maybe a really good Braves game…oh, and Church on Christmas Eve.

TommyP, DOB gets on me time and again, too— “There are three I’s in ‘irritating’”, for instance. Just gotta swallow hard and take it, buddy. : ) (Meant to include a smile at the end of my last post, too, BTW.)

By McFann

January 30, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Hi, Wayne!! Things are pretty good with me, Wayne (unlike TommyP, apparently : ) ). How ‘bout you?

By Lee in S. GA

January 30, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

No matter how you look at it the Mets managed somehow have one of the biggest chokes in the world of sports towards the end of last season. Don’t think for 1 minute this does not haunt them. Willie Randolph’s managerial job is in danger. This team has no choice but to produce or the media and fans will be like hungry wolves waiting to devour its prey. This may very well be their downfall.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Actually, there are many different medications available.

Personally, I’ll concede the manic or near-manic part of the equation, at times, but can honestly say haven’t experienced much of the depression part, thankfully.

But I appreciate your concern, Tommy.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Edgar, regarding a No. 1 starter possibility at trade deadline: Simply too early to make such a prediction. By that I mean, if Hudson is pitching great and the young guys are really producing, etc, and starting pitching isn’t a problem this summer, then I can’t really see the Braves making a big trade for a No. 1 starter at the trade deadline.

That’s something they’d be more apt to do in the offseason, in that case. Now, if they have pitching injuries at the top of the rotation and are in need of an ace in July and still in the playoff picture, sure I could see them making such a move. They’ve got the prospects to do it, if a team is looking to unload some salary with a top starter at the deadline. But that seems unlikely.

By KC

January 30, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman: “If Hampton were to struggle or once again fall victim to injury, the Braves feel they have legitimate depth with James, who has been a part of their rotation the past two seasons, Reyes, Jair Jurrjens, Jeff Bennett and Buddy Carlyle.”

QUESTION FOR DOB:

Why is it that when you or Bowman (though I know you can’t speak for him) talk about the possibilities for the back end of the rotation, Buddy Carlyle’s name is always included???

Carlyle was solid for a stretch after being called up, but threw Mark Redman-like batting practice for the last 2 months of the season, didn’t he?

The Braves DO have depth at the back end of their rotation, but I seriously doubt the Braves consider Carlyle a viable part of that depth. We have Hampton, James, Reyes, Jurrjens, and Bennett for the last 2 slots in the rotation. So if Carlyle starts a game this season… we’re in trouble.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

If Carlyle is not a consideration for the rotation why is he still around?

I guess they are considering him.

By McFann

January 30, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman? Good night. That dude has more typos in his articles than anyone else I read regularly!! Take this clip from an article on 6/06/07:

Brain McCann has been forced to battle discomfort in his left ring finger for most of the past six months.

I mean “six months”? I was like, “Dude…” Sheesh.

As for Carlyle, I honestly didn’t even know we still had him until I read that.

By brian

January 30, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

I am not concerned with the Santana trade and I am thankful that Wrenn is the GM and not people here who would gut our future for a pitcher.

Even with Santana the Mets rotation still has many question marks and is not significantly better than the Braves. It is definitely not as deep as the Braves. Our bullpen is stronger. Our offense is equal to the Mets with a full year of Teixeira.

If the Braves stay healthy and play as they are supposed to the will win the division and will not have to worry about what the Mets are doing.

By David O'Brien

January 30, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Overlord, Carlyle is depth. Deep depth. That’s about it.

By Greg

January 30, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Here’s my concern: Smoltz has maybe two years of quality starts left. At the end of that two years, we are in trouble, big trouble. We don’t have anybody in the minors or in the back of the rotation who gives off a whiff of greatness, we can’t afford a free agent ace even in a trade and sign situation. Enjoy the next few years. We’re in trouble after that. No national TV contract. Absentee owners. Aging pitching. We’re screwed. We will be a second tier team for decades.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Come on people, we are talking Santana, why are you scared. Its not like the muts just got Roger Clemens or something. OOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSS, what am i saying, LOL.

DOB yes he is, but i wouldnt be surprised to watch him be 5th starter in april, for a month or so.

By Random

January 30, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

TommyP “sez”: C: Schneider over Loduca - PUSH 1B: Delgado - PUSH 2B: Castillo - PUSH or better LF: Alou/Chavez - PUSH RF: Church over Shawn Green - UPGRADE

What can one say? Certainly nothing original (speaking only for myself, of course), so here goes:

“Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.”

By Roman Gal

January 30, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

I’m surprised so many people on here are jumping on the “the Mets have the best rotation in the East now” bandwagon. It’s just not true. They have Santana, yes. Let’s assume that Maine and Perez don’t regress…they still have Pedro and El Duque. No matter how good Pedro is, there is no reason to think he can last all season. He hasn’t pitched that much in a long time. So the Mets have an ace. The Braves have 2, plus we have the former Mets ace. Say what you will about Glavine, but he is one of the best number 3’s in the NL. Then there’s Hampton, who is our own version Pedro at this point. What I mean by that is that we don’t know what to expect and there is almost zero chance he lasts all season even if he does start the season strong. But even when Hampton goes down, we still have Jurrjens, Reyes, and Bennett as good replacements who I expect will keep the ball rolling. Who do the Mets have to replace what Pedro and El Duque bring to the table?

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Greg you sound like someone that doesnt knows the hard times. Man dont underestimate braves club. They have shown us they can put at least a good team on the field every year. I get your point, but you are panicking way too early. Whats up with you. Still have tim, Bennett, jojo, JJJ, james might turn the corner, maybe even acosta could be turned into a starter. And after we sign tex this year, braves are gonna go like hungry dogs for that ACE you are screaming for.

Take a deep breath and dont panic pal.

By Overlord

January 30, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry but Hampton is not our version of Pedro. Pedro pitched in september and pitched well. He might not make it the whole season, but hampton might never make it to the season.

But you are right, we are in good shape anyway.

By Roman Gal

January 30, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Overlord, I know he pitched well. The point I was making was that the Mets can’t expect a full season out of Pedro…just like the Braves can’t expect a full season out of a healthy Hampton.

By SNIPER-69

January 30, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

It’s funny to see that a move the Mets make causes more conversation than anything the braves have done. And still you all say you’re not concerned. Ok, it’s only January. Maybe in June that all will change. Please tell me where the braves have improved? Yes, they signed Glavine but there’s no gold glove center fielder anymore. You’re clutch short stop is gone. Both of these losses will affect the braves and the replacements are not equal to the losses. Mean while, If Pedro plays all season he’ll make up the 13 wins we lost with Glavine and Santana will add another 15-20 games. Do the math.

By Roman Gal

January 30, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Sniper, isn’t it funny that a Mets fan is on a Braves blog.

By Bops

January 30, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Santana pitches every 5th day. What matters the most is the other guys that pitch behind him. Last time I checked, there isn’t much for the Mets. The Braves on the other hand have 3 proven guys and if Hampton does come back healthy, is a plus. The bottom line is that you don’t judge a team by their #1 starter. He may very well win 20 but if the guys behind him don’t produce, the Mets don’t stand a chance.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

What a laughable question…. Afraid because the Mets have Santana… I would be more afraid if the Braves still had Mark Redman.

I worry more about the Nationals having a healthy Rick Hill back. The Mets are yesterdays news….

Question… Does anyone think we could get a match race between Estrada and McCann? Could be the slowest two minutes in sports.

By Roman Gal

January 30, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Snipy, I’ll oblige.

Last year the Braves had 2 big problems. The back-end of the rotation and their streakiness. I’m pretty sure that the rotation is going to be miles better than last year and as for their streakiness, I have no reason to believe that my Bravos won’t be much improved. For starters, Andruw Jones is one of the streakiest batters to ever live (ok, that’s an exaggeration…but I’m making a point.) Having a MUCH more consistant clean-up hitter will help with that. I also don’t expect Frenchy or McCann to regress from last years numbers. KJ needs to become more consistent to take that next step in his development. I think Escobar will hold his own. My biggest concern for this team right now is defense. I think whoever plays in center will be fine…and I’m also sure that KJ and Yunel will make a lot of progress. But if I had to point at a weakness for the Braves, it would be defense…not offense or pitching.

By Roman Gal

January 30, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

…or coaching…

-I don’t want Robert to feel left out.

By SNIPER-69

January 30, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Did I miss something or did the brave not finish 3rd the last two years? bops, last time you checked there wasn’t much for the Mets there wasn’t much for the Mets after Santana??? Maybe you should check again. Maine and Perez finished with 15 wins each and ERA under 4.00—-We could go on all night with this Bull-sh—it. Last year it was the same thing. The braves were gonna clobber the Mets. Yeah right. You still finished below the Mets.

By Irish

January 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

do we have the ammo to get Joe Nathan? Can you imagine once Gonzalez comes back—Gonz/Soriano/Nathan? Game over after 6. Might be a lot to sacrifice for 1 year of Nathan, but I’m starting to feel like it might be worth it.

By SNIPER-69

January 30, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Lets simplify all this with some simple questions. Does the trade for Santana improve the Mets? will 150-180 innings from Pedro replace the 13 wins lost with Glavine? the answer to both are quite obvious. Yes, if Glavine can be productive it also improves the braves. I just think that the Pedro return along with the Glavine departure is a wash for both teams. So in the end Santana will be the difference……we’ll see.

By Chop Chop

January 30, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, here’s a tribute to K-State hoops after tonight’s upset of Rock Chalk:

Fix You

By Lew

January 30, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Sniper-Get real you moron. The last time Pedro pitched 180 innings was 2005. The last time he won 13 games was 2005. He hasn’t won 13 games OR pitched 180 innings in the two full seasons of 06 and 07 combined. Good luck hoping he will come back to that kind of form. That makes almost as much sense as expecting Hampton to do it.

By uga-brave

January 31, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

lets put this into perspective, this is possibly the the MADDUX signing 14 years ago. or it might be signing jason schmidt or barry zito.

i for one believe that santana is the best pitcher in baseball. the strikeouts are the key. unless his arm is not sound, it is bad news for us.

paint it any way you can but their rotation is better than ours.

their closer is proven, and they now have two dominant LH’S . until we prove we can hit oliver perez they have two guys we dont want to face.

our offense is LH dominat. kelly, mcaann, kotsay, chipper (his good side) bobby loves his platoon.

gonna be some weird lineups when we face santanna, perez, and hammels with the phils.

By TennesseePaul

January 31, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Carlyle is certainly deep depth. I’d hope JoJo is deep depth as well. As for Bennett, if all 8 of his starts last year are in fact a sign of his future success in the role then great! Of course, 6 of the 8 were minor league starts. But there are tons of stories of 27 year old career minor league relievers developing into stable major league starters on the depth chart.

Jair should start in AAA. Chuck should be the #5. And if an injury occurs, Jair should show up to the rescue. After that it’s just 2005/2006 all over again.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 31, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Having Glavine back does more than give us a solid #3 starter. It also gives us a mentor for Chuck James. If Hampton can come back and stay relatively healthy for most of the season, this 5-man rotation could remind us of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Millwood, and Neagle. I know, many of you probably think that I’m dreaming, and I am. But, that is what the preseason is for. The strange thing for me though, is why aren’t the Braves being discussed as a viable contender for the division this season? Espn and Baseball Prospectus seem to think that it is just the Mets and Phillies.

By uga-brave

January 31, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

tenn paul,

whats up! gotta face facts we are trying to shoot down planes with spit wads.

the mets and the phills are going to be bigger spenders than us.

personally i love the phillies lineup. rollins, victorino, utley, howard, burrell, jenkins, feliz.

power and a ton of speed.

pitching is a question but the top three in that order could be real special.

face the facts, we dont know who will hit 1 2 for the braves.

reyes, castillo for the mets

rollins, victorino for the phills

their 1-2 hitters will steal twice as many bases then our whole team.

By uga-brave

January 31, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

sorry, for all of you guys that believe that glavine is going to be a mentor for chuck and duck i dont get it.

glavine survived on the edge with great control and the ability to spot his fastball. they both throw a great changeup but glavine was a ground ball pitcher. chuck has no clue how to get a batter off stride. when he falls behind in the count he comes right down the middle.

comparing glavine or considering the fact that chuck has it in in him, is just plain wrong at this point.

chuck might figure it out at some point, but saying glavine’s presence might help chuck is plain out wishfull thinking.

i really believe that bobby already believes that chuck does not have that competive factor.

there is a real difference between a pitcher that does not give in (glavine) and a pitcher like chuck, horachio, odalis, who look to get out of the game when things go bad.

glavine understands how to get a ground ball when the game is still mangeable.

By Joe D. loves Marilyn

January 31, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this

With the Mets picking up that guitar picker from the twinkies, Carlos Santana…the east is going to be wild…

But Hoss and Tex…they will carry us to a world series sweep of the Bosox…

Selah…

By Metropolitan Man

January 31, 2008 5:55 AM | Link to this

Morning brave bloggers. Heck I dont even know where to blog now due to all the Santana buzz, you guys are running 2. Hey whats that song Dion Sanders used to sing when he was known as Neon Dion???? Oh now I remember…..”Must be the Moneyyyyyyyyyy”. You guys remember that song right??? You have to because you asked this question for the past 2 seasons and no METS fan had a direct answer. I think Johan just answered that question and will leave you guys braves blue. There is so much going on that there really is no need to harp about this even though its hard not to. I’ve read all the quotes from braves players and philthies players and they all say about the same thing. It doesnt matter and they are still better than the METS. Thats great, noboby wants to see anyone lose faith in their squads especially after 1 move. However, the METS and their fans have something to boast about and its not the last 2 weeks of 07. Right now 07 seems more like a hiccup now that this deal was made. Yeah we know everything still has to be settled on the field, but confidence has shot up on 1 end, and questions marks have popped up on the other. The farm sytem has never been anything to right home about so thats not a hit unless the chips traded end up being All Stars. The braves made moves that made them feel good for a hot minute. The METS made 1 move and turned the entire sport of baseball upside down. Its truly “AMAZING” how no matter what end of the spectrum the METS are on, they are relevent. If the braves dont win, we wont hear about them…its just that simple.
I can actually feel the wind sail out of the high hopes you guys had. Reading some of the responses, you can garner dislike, upset, worried, and almost ready to wave the white flag. Man if you guys dont sign Tex, can you honestly not see pre 1991 results again. Lets be real, you must rely on back door shady deals, hometown discounts, and the farm every year because you cant package the braves product properly to make ends meet. I’ve spent more money on tickets at Turner then most born and bred braves fans. Get behind your boys, support them financially and figure out how to turn seats into money.
Well my septic tank is almost empty so I better wrap up the post that will motivate any METS fan and make a philthie and braves fan don orange and blue if you havent already. You guys were just finishing 3rd before, now expect to get buried. How optimistic are you guys now……really??? I’ll paste this on the other blog too, no sense in being stingy with the wonderful kind words about the big 3 in the NL east. Next year I’ll be talking about the reigning division champs METS, 2nd place philthies, and the up and coming 3rd place nats. You and the fish can duke it out for season and be spoilers.

LETS GO METS & BIG BLUE did I mention LETS GO METS!!!!!!

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 6:22 AM | Link to this

Why don’t more prognostications include the Braves as a division contender? Simple. Any optimistic analysis of the Braves’ chances includes too much of “if [fill-in-the-blank] does” and “I think that [fill-in-the-blank] will”. Pundits are never going to base predictions on best-case scenarios. The youth of and health-related variables for the Braves just pose too many possibilities of good/bad results for them to be picked by many outside Braves Nation. Might as well live with it.

By Metropolitan Man

January 31, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this

How did I know this would turn into.”Dont worry about the METS, lets just handle our business”. That will be the braves and philthies mantra all season.

By N8

January 31, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

nscoots

“The youth of and health-related variables for the Braves just pose too many possibilities of good/bad results for them to be picked by many outside Braves Nation.”

Yeah, but aren’t these the same pundits that think Bobby is the best manager in the history of history? What gives? If the greatest manager can’t lead a team with youth and question marks to the title, what good is he?

:-)

By Shaun

January 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

I think it’s a little too early to say what the pundits will think of the ‘08 Braves’ chances. I’m guessing barring any drastic injury news or transactions, most of the intelligent and open-minded ones will view the Braves, Mets and Phillies’ chances of winning the division as roughly equal.

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

LEW, your moron reference at 11:39pm wasn’t necessary. I don’t know how old you are but adults could have a difference of opinion without personal insults. It’s My Belief that Pedro will throw 170 innings plus this coming season. He pitched in September and looked great. He should be totaly healed now and ready to go. I also think the addition of Santana will get his competive juices flowing which will produce a 15-18 win season. This all adds up to the NL East Champs.

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

nathan, re your 8:42, too true, LOL.

most of the intelligent and open-minded ones…

Huh? We’re talking about broadcasters, talk show hosts, and the like. I worked in that field, and I can tell you that your characterization is an oxymoron of high order, LMAO.

I naturally view The Notorious One, Carroll, and Furman Bisher as exceptions that prove that rule. :-)

By Niels Boor

January 31, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Anders was right; Lew was wrong.

(Sorry, Lew.)

By Shaun

January 31, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Huh? We’re talking about broadcasters, talk show hosts, and the like. I worked in that field, and I can tell you that your characterization is an oxymoron of high order, LMAO.

That’s why you have to read and listen to the “sabermetric folks” and the Baseball Prospectus crew and the like…(I know that’ll stir everyone up!)

By Niels Boor

January 31, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

C’mon, Lew, count to eight again for us, okay?

“*one, two, three, … *”

“*one, two, three, four, … *”

“… . .”

“uh, eight!!!”

By 22oz

January 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Spring training is almost here, and now, more than ever because of Santana, the Mets will be getting all the preseason love. Its an annual rite, just like pitchers and catchers reporting. Loving this from Si’s John Donovan: “Let’s face it: The Mets, without Santana, are just another NL East schlub. They are a bunch of chuckers without an ace, a collection of hitters who cease to hit at the most inopportune times, all marched around by a sometimes stone-mugged manager who presided last year over one of the most embarrassing nosedives in baseball history.”
So adding an ace changes all those other variables? I must be seeing things wrong. But oh well, i’m used to this. I’m not dumb enough to think that the Braves don’t have potential problems as well, but to think Santana will cure all the Mets ailments is ridiculous.

By DAP

January 31, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

i think the mets rotation is potentially better than the braves, but the braves rotation is much deeper and dependable.

the braves top three smoltz, hudson, and glavine are very dependable starters. not likely to miss starts, they are consistant, and are among the best starters in the game.

the mets top three with santana, pedro, and maine, have one guy who is dependable, in santana, one guy who has been injured for two years in pedro, and one guy who had a terrible second half and is very young in maine. maine could be very good, or he could have been a flash in the pan.

both team have thier questions in the bottom of the rotation, but overall, the braves are a much more dependable even team. i think the mets will go through some ups and downs this year, while the braves should stay pretty consistent.

By Efrim

January 31, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Everyone here should really go take a look on Buster Olney’s column/blog on ESPN.com. It gives you a perspective of what everyone thought of the Santana trade. Basically everyone believes the Mets are the favorite to win the NL East, and quite possibly the National League. People are saying that Santana could win 25 games and that he could have a 2.10 ERA with that switch over to the National League. It is pretty unbelievable. Not sure what to think about it.

I guess the only people who think that the Braves have a shot are on this blog. One thing is for sure, if the Braves lose Teixiera after this season, the whole MLB community is going to write them off. Fine with me, its better to be the underdog anyways.

By David O'Brien

January 31, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

MetroMan: nothing personal, but you should leave the stabs at humor and sarcasm to others.

By DAP

January 31, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

Efrim id love to read that whole article, but im not an insider. i dont think santana is going to be that dominating. i think he will look about the same. he wont have to face the tigers or indians, but the NL has some boppers that he’ll be new to as well. the phillies, braves, and marlins all have good hitters he’ll have to contend with regularly.

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

DOB maybe you should let him do it, sometimes is funny to have a clown around, besides, it is for FREE, and sometimes we get 3 for the price of 1 so we get 3 clowns from NY for FREE, not many blogs can say that. But then again, you are the Quarterback here, you make the call.

By Anders

January 31, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Let’s forget that we’ve basically been hearing and reading about the Mets now being the favorites everywhere but on this blog, how about where the rubber really meets the road -Vegas.

The Mets jumped up about 6 or 7 places to the #2 favorite behind only the vaunted Red Sox at a 5-1 to win the World Series. My point is how far they’ve moved in one day! Now unless they picked up another Wright (My beating heart be still) I’m guessing it has something to do with Santana. Apparently the Vegas odds makers think he will resolve the Mets hitting, age and bullpen issues I hear so much about on this blog in addition to leading the starting staff.

DOB- Hope you don’t mind my attempt at sarcasm?

BTW- You may want to add a little extra cinnamon and sugar on your sourdough toast this morning to kill that nasty taste the Santana trade and Kansas State left in your mouth this morning.

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Could the mets be so ztoopit not to get the agreement done before the 72 hours? 36hrs are gone!!! Or am i missing something.

By David O'Brien

January 31, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Overlord, you’re absolutely right.

MetroMan, nevermind. Keep doing what you do, my man.

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

DAP….There aren’t any line ups in the NL East that are as strong as the Tigers or Indians. Santana will do very. Efrim, Santana won’t win 25 games but 20 isn’t out of the question. Shea is a pitchers park, no DH and he new to the league will all contribute to his success.

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

DAP….There aren’t any line ups in the NL East that are as strong as the Tigers or Indians. Santana will do very. Efrim, Santana won’t win 25 games but 20 isn’t out of the question. Shea is a pitchers park, no DH and he new to the league will all contribute to his success.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Sniper-I’m old enough to recognize a moron when I see one. There are so many Mets fans here that it’s quite hard to miss them. If it bothers you then don’t continue making moronic references. Really simple solution, don’t you think?

If you don’t like the terminology, then you and Anders can quit referencing me in every damn post you make and go back to a Mets’ blog where you might actually be appreciated. Have you convinced yourselves yet that the Mets are great? You haven’t convinced us.

Pedro pitching 180 innings? Yes, that is moronic, considering he hasn’t done that combined in the past two years. Were I to come out and make the claim that Hampton would put up those numbers, you could rightly call me a moron, too.

Niels Boor-what are you talking about? Anders was right about what? Predicting the Mets would get Santana? Wow. What a prognosticator. I’m overwhelmed. I guess it just goes to prove that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Anders not so often.

Are the Mets even sure they got the right Santana? Knowing their propensity for signing old players at the end of their careers, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Omar had signed Carlos Santana-at least now you have before game entertainment. Did you get Jose Chipita Arias, too? He plays a mean conga and second base. Oh wait-you already have four second basemen. Never mind.

By David O'Brien

January 31, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Efrim, lot of folks are saying it makes the Mets favorites in the NL East and the league, and understandably so.

But to state that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and no one has any doubts is to, as is often the case here, oversimplify the situation. Read a little closer. Read the Philly article by Paul Hagen, where the Phils advance scout said he likes the Mets now, but still thinks both Phillies and Braves will be factors, and how much he likes the Braves additions of Kotsay and Glavine, etc.

And read this from New York Times esteemed columnist George Vecsey to get a feel for what will undoubtedly be a topic that comes up all summer, unless and until the Mets build such a huge lead as to make a collapse impossible:

By GEORGE VECSEY Published: January 31, 2008

Exciting trade, but the Mets are still on probation.

Omar Minaya may ice the deal for Johan Santana any hour now but, until further notice, the Mets are still the team that fell apart last September, disastrously.

The Mets still have to report to their legion of self-appointed probation officers, that is to say, Mets fans, on a regular basis from now until October to prove they are not recidivists in the worrisome habit of folding.

I would strongly advise giddy Mets fans to envision the Marlins and the Nationals whacking them around in the final two weeks of last season. That should neutralize the euphoria, assuming Minaya and the family Wilpon sign the Twins’ star lefty to a six-year contract.

Essentially, the Mets are front-ending their pitching staff — Santana for the departed Tom Glavine. That upgrade does not necessarily make them a better — or more mature — team for all 162 games this season.

Envision José Reyes sleep-walking through September, batting .205 for the month, including .156 in the final week, with no stolen bases after Sept. 15, all of it with a weird, perplexed smile frozen on his handsome face. He was lost. And so were the Mets. That image does not go away until, oh, late in October.

One could hear delight from Mets fans as the deal resurfaced Tuesday. Santana for four prospects? Do it. Santana was being called the best pitcher in baseball, who had grown too expensive for the Twins — a sad commentary on the economics of baseball, but a nicety Mets fans were not examining.

Mets fans were envisioning what Santana could do against the soft underbelly of the National League. Heck, look at what he did to them — last June 19 in Shea Stadium, a four-hit 9-0 shutout.

Even if Santana stays healthy, he is 28, and pitchers can fall apart in a heartbeat. For that matter, he did not have such a wonderful September himself. Besides, he can start only once every five games, or somewhat more than 30 starts a season. Let’s say he wins 20 games. He is still taking up a certain number of starts that would have been made, and perhaps even won, by another regular.

With a good club, Santana could be worth five to eight more victories a year — which sounds like enough to get the Mets into the postseason, when aces become more pivotal, at least until their arms fall off from overwork.

At this potentially joyous moment, I hate to bring up an unpleasant reminder, but this is also the team that managed to squander a seven-game lead with 17 to play, the biggest collapse in baseball history with that few games left.

Little has changed since last September. Paul Lo Duca is being replaced by Brian Schneider at catcher, maybe an upgrade in defense and comportment but a downgrade in hitting, and they now have Ryan Church in right field, not necessarily a big deal.

•

The core of the team remains the same. Moises Alou was a rock last September, but he turns 42 this summer. David Wright is terrific, but not yet the assertive leader he may be someday. Carlos Beltrán has his moments. But there is still something lacking in this team, which Manager Willie Randolph needs to unlock, starting in a few weeks.

Last summer, the Mets were so happy with themselves, performing cute choreography on the field for every little success, that Reyes got into bad habits and Randolph had to scold him. From then on, as far as I can see, Reyes began to sulk. Perhaps he played too many games — 160 sounds like a lot; maybe that was Randolph’s fault — but the clubhouse did not help Reyes, either.

On a team constructed with veteran players, many of them Latino, no critical mass of leadership emerged to shake Reyes out of his walkabout. Pedro Martínez, preoccupied with his comeback from surgery, was hardly a factor. Neither was Carlos Delgado, whose decline can only be called precipitous — 27 fewer runs batted in, 14 fewer home runs.

•

Delgado had his best power years in Toronto from 1998 through 2003 when a lot of other power hitters were having career years, but now, going on 36, he has declined when one might traditionally expect a slugger to decline. And his leadership, once expected, is not evident. It appears that nobody took Reyes into the back room and said, “¿Qué tal?”— what’s up?

All of that may be irrelevant if Johan Santana kick-starts the Mets into a new mode, starting on opening day. Until further notice, this is the club that fell apart last September.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

January 31, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

I think Santana is all but guaranteed of winning at least 18 games but I think the issue with the Mets will be how healthy can Pedro and El Duque stay and if John Maine is the real deal? Also, they have issues at the corners in the outfield. Can Alou even play 100 games? And Ryan Church isn’t exactly Green or Milledge for that matter. Can he handle New York? I wouldn’t bet on it.

By Epinephrine

January 31, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Vegas makes odds in order to get people to bet, Anders. They think people will bet against that, and they will keep those odds until they get enough takers in order to maximize house revenue. Same reason for the original line for the Super Bowl. How stupid are you?

By David O'Brien

January 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Anders, the loss to K-State was tough to stomach, but as I said yesterday afternoon, not overly surprising. One loss every quarter-center to your in-state rival at their arena, that’s not such a bad thing, especially when the Wildcats have such a strong team. Those brash freshmen they have can back up their talk. Beasley and Walker are the best 1-2 frosh combo in the country.

If they were to stay a few years, it probably won’t be the only time they beat KU. But that’s a big “if.” Beasley will almost certainly go to the NBA after one year, and Walker might, too. But you never know. Anyway, it’s good to have them strong again, to renew that rivalry, which had slipped quite a bit the past couple decades as the fierce KU-Mizzou rivalry continued unabated….

As for the Santana trade, I’m excited about seeing the dude pitch 4-5 times a season. But you don’t seem to grasp the essential difference between myself and the passionate Braves fans on this blog. That’s OK, though. I can see where the distinction might be difficult for someone such as yourself to comprehend.

We’ll try to boil it down for you to terms even you can wrap your brain around: I cover the team. That’s it. Have no vested interest in their success or failure. Like a lot of the guys on the team, yes, simply because most of them are good dudes and I’m around them so much that I get to know them.

And while it’s often easier to cover a team that’s doing well (not always the case, but often is), it really doesn’t matter in the big picture. I just love baseball and covering the sport, and am fortunate to cover a team that has a bunch of people who are easy to work with and interview, for the most part, and a clubhouse that isn’t rife with dissension, division, and backstabbing (I’ll not mention any recent examples of other clubhouses that, I’m told, didn’t fit that bill.)

Anyway, seriously, this Santana trade is good for business. Plenty to write about, and adds spice to what should be a great division race.

I guess you found no interesting places to blog with Mets fans about the trade, huh? Welcome back to our blog. Glad we have diehards who can’t stay away even if they try.

By DAP

January 31, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

SNIPER-69 DAP….There aren’t any line ups in the NL East that are as strong as the Tigers or Indians.

thats debatable. the phillies scored more runs than anyone in the majors except for the yankees, and the braves scored 1 less run than the indians. so why dont we just say phillies=tigers and braves=indians. thats a pretty fair comparison.

its a myth that the AL has better hitters. 6 of the top 10 scoring teams are AL teams, but thats pretty close to half and half, and those AL teams get a DH. the truth is, santana isnt going to be way better against NL teams. he will be the same, which is really good.

by the way, sniper…he has to hit and run the bases now…do you think that will affect him?

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

I guess Lew has taken it upon himself to decide who can blog here, What can be said and if necessary personally insult anyone with a difference of opinion. It’s good to get all that out of the way early. Now I know who the a*******holes are. I’m sure he’ll be a bigger a*******hole when the Mets finish ahead of the braves again. Go answer the door LEW, your monthly shipment of Viagra and Rogains has arrived.

By Luther

January 31, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

SNIPER-69-LEW, your moron reference at 11:39pm wasn’t necessary. I don’t know how old you are but adults could have a difference of opinion without personal insults.

Not to take on Lew’s fight for him, because I know he is more than capable, but if you are going to come on another teams blog and make a big deal out being called a moron, maybe you shouldn’t come on another teams blog talking up your team. Why don’t you click over a few pages to the UGA blog and tell everyone you’re a Gator fan, you’ll probably see a lot worse than moron. I just don’t think its that big of a deal.

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Sniper before you make completely BRAINLESS statements ill have to ask you very kindly to do some research because you make us waste our time reading you misinformed posts.

1st of all Indians hit 178HRs last season and Tigers 177HRs. There are 4 NL teams that hit more than that, yeah count them FOUR, and i mean a lot more. Yes thats right, Brewers did hit 25% more HR than your potent tigers and Indians. Not to mention that even your muts hit same as the tigers and the Braves 1 less than that. To add to it the Brewers, Phillies and Reds were the top 3 HR teams in the MAJORS, and guess what……. they did it without DH!!!!!! How are you doing so far pal???.

2nd of all of the 1st 15 run scoring teams, 7 are from the NL, thats right, count´em 7, including the phillies that were 2nd ahead of the TIGERS (3rd) and the rockies (5th) ahead of the Indians (8th with 811), while the braves scored 810.

So if you notice, the phillies scored more runs than the tigers and the braves just 1 less than the indians……..and guess what??? They did it without the DH!!!!!! and guess what else????? Santana will face them tons of times during the year.

We can do with HITS also. Tigers 2nd, but the indians are in the middle of the pack (14th) and guess which teams had lots of hits more than them??? Thats right you guessed right BRAVES (6th) and PHILLIES (8th).

SLG.: PHILLIES (tied with TIGERS for 2nd), BRAVES AND MARLINS were all better than the INDIANS. Oh and dont forget that 6 out the top 10 best slugging teams were from the NL. Without the DH????? Yep, without it!!!!!

New league contributes to his success? You better go drink some coffee with Hudson and Zito and ask them about that.

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I hope you liked my post previous to this one LEW. It could help reinforce your point.

By N8

January 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

SNIPER-69

What exactly is a sniper-69?

Is that what two guys with rifles do on a roof, when there is nobody to shoot at, except each other (wink wink)?

:-)

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

I wonder what Vegas says about ALIENS arriving earth before season begins…… just a thought.

By Scuba-Steve

January 31, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB You mean to say that you don’t have any bias for the Braves at all?! Do you pull for them or are you that impartial?

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Luther, I guess I was surprised. I didn’t know the proper conduct and behavior on the blog. I was blinded by that nieve myth of southern hospitality and was caught off guard. It won’t happen again.

By Overlord

January 31, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I forgot to remind SNIPER69 and his other friend on the roof (should i call him METROMAN???) that the phillies, braves and marlins are in the NL EAST, just in case you didnt remember. So you still think Santanta is coming to WONDERLAND??? Have a nice day!!!

By Efrim

January 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

Good article by Vescey. And a good one to post at this time, but most of the writers and analysts are going to say that the Mets are the favorites to capture the NL East. We’ll have to wait and see, but I am guessing that is what they will say.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Sniper-Why don’t you go screw yourself, Moron? If you don’t like it leave. It’s really simple. You come on a Braves’ blog talking trash and then wonder why no one likes you? Moronic in the extreme. If I were to go to a Mets’ blog and talk crap like you and Anders do here, would being called a Moron be the worst I would hear? Get over yourself. I never claimed not to be an a*******hole. We already knew you were, as well.

By Random

January 31, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Hi, everybody—

Do any of y’all think the Mets will continue to pursue signing free agent Livan Hernadez now?

(I know flange1 does — anybody else?)

By flange1

January 31, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

It is amazing how pathetic all of these Mets fans are on a Braves blog.

They moan and complain that they are treated so poorly.

Yet they come back and continue to tell us how smart they are and how great the Mets are and then complain when their ignorant posts are responded to with knowledge and stats.

Sniper-69,

if you don’t like how Lew Speaks to you, you have 2 choices, either stay here and continue to spout your nonsense and take the responses or JUST GO AWAY. It is totally your choice.

Anders,

If you want to post here, that is fine, just stop whining.

Metro dude,

Dude, you are a real character. Try to think your posts out a little before you make another group of stupid remarks?

TommyP,

Ditto the remarks to SNiper. If you don’t like the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Why don’t all of you find a Mets blog and move along?

By Niels Boor

January 31, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Lew—

When SNIPER-69 predicts that Pedro will pitch “150-180 innings”, that usually means (to most non-morons and other sane types) that he’ll pitch at least (no less than) 150 innings and at most (no more than) 180 innings.

Your obsession seeems to be with the 180 inning figure. Are you saying it’s moronic to predict that Pedro won’t pitch over 180 innings?

Or are you saying it’s moronic to predict that Pedro will pitch 150 innings?

Focus, buddy — it’s either one or the other, or neither. But not both.

By timmythebrave

January 31, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

I hope the Mets can’t afford to sign Santana. If they do I hope they pay him $500 million for 5 years and go broke in the process. Did anybody else go to the Ween concert at the Tabernacle on Tuesday? All I can say is WOW! It was one of the best shows in a long time.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Yeah, I’ve wondered at the Sniper reference myself. Does have some pretty vivid connotations, doesn’t it. Kind of gives you a certain image of lurking and whatnot.

I guess I’m just a Mets’ Troll lightning rod or something. Lord Knows they have to include me in almost all their posts-as if my opinion really meant something to anyone but myself. It’s great to know just how important I am in the scheme of things when Anders says I must answer for Santana. Still not real sure where THAT one came from.

Maybe it’s time to have another WURLITZER competition at the expense of the Trolls. I guess we will have to do it once a month so they know where they stand amongst we a@@h0les.

I have a nice drawing of Jeff Francoeur. Whoever can post the best, most creative reasons why this deal is not what the Mets’ fans think it is and why, exactly Sniper 66 (he has shortcomings) is a moron, wins it. I’ll check back later and let you know who wins. Let them see what we really think of them. Let the games begin.

By Anders

January 31, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

DOB

As for your 11:46 post - even with all the Mets issues that you wrote about the Braves still finished behind the Mets last year. This off season the Braves added Glavine and the Mets added Santana. The Braves let Andruw go and replaced with an offensive (run production) downgrade and clearly a defensive downgrade. The Mets let Green go and added a guy who produced more offensively last season and is at least a wash on the field. The Braves let a veteran shorstop go who provided real good offense and reliable defense and maybe even some of the veteran latino mojo you say the Mets don’t have. They replaced him with an unproven (albeit with good upside potential) young player. The Mets let a catcher in decline offensively and less than average defense go. Replaced him with a defensive and game calling upgrade and an offensive downgrade. Other than that, both teams are essentially the same as last year. I don’t see where the Braves closed the gap on the Mets team which had an unprecedented collapse and still finished ahead of them? If you’re counting on a similar collapse this season which appears to be your argument then ok -good luck with that. BTW- As for all the Reyes headgame issues and the Latino references etc. I’ve purposely avoided responding on them as you’ve scolded me on “How the H I would know these types of things ?” in the past.

By David O'Brien

January 31, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Scuba, one does not (or should not) pull for or against the team he or she covers. If one does, then one probably will not be covering said team for long.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Niels Boor-You’re making little more sense than the rest of the Mets’ Morons. Sniper mentioned 180 innings last night. But, no I don’t think Pedro will pitch even 150 innings. Why should I think so? He pitched all of 23 innings all of last year and did not pitch 150 innings the year before that. He has had shoulder surgery in the interim and has chronic leg and toe issues. Yes, predicting he will pitch that much after more than two years of not having done it is moronic. The fact you can’t see this or understand it shows your intelligence level is quite low as well.

BTW-What will the reaction be when Santana comes in with a 6 year, $150 million contract? How do you think that will sit with David Wright and his 6 year $55 million deal? And David running for President, no less. He might just call out the National Guard-if they ever come home.

By Random

January 31, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

N8—

Pretty funny.

By Leprechaun

January 31, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Santana is trying to steal me pot o’ gold. Don’t make the leprechaun angry boyo.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Random-They will need Livan when ElDuque and Pedro go down to injuries just like they have the past couple of years. What the Mets’ Trolls don’t seem to understand is that the Braves are the better rotation because we have depth. The Mets just traded all their potential pitching depth for Sanatna.

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Well, I don’t know anything about Reyes’ head, but you didn’t have to be a ML manager to see that his wheels were totally shot by September. All those glorious stolen bases left his body one big bruise and his legs the thinnest of reeds. No base to hit off, and no quicks if he did get on. It’s no wonder he went right in the dumper offensively.

Now, that set of circumstances might cause one to sulk, if one were so sulk-inclined, LOL. He’s probably never been through that kind of fatigue, and had no understanding of how to fight through it. But Vecsey is right…SOMEBODY should have been trying to set the kid back on track, and no one did.

By DAP

January 31, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

anders both teams are essentially the same as last year. I don’t see where the Braves closed the gap on the Mets team which had an unprecedented collapse and still finished ahead of them?

i think the reason braves fans are optimistic is because we saw clear holes in our team in ‘07 that were adequately filled.

NOT having andruw fills a hole-more dependable offense- adding glavine fills a hole- more qulaity innings from our rotation to ease our good bullpen, NOT having woodward and orr on our bench helps too.

however, when we look at the mets, we see many holes that arent adequately filled at all. declining production from catcher position was answered with an even less potent bat. a battered bullpen has had no additions. an oft’ injured left fielder was resigned, as was an aging singles hitting 2nd baseman. church is an upgrade in right field, but not much of one, and santana is a huge addition, which is great for the mets. however, there is still not much depth, and if mike pelfry has to pitch 30+ games to fill in for el duque/pedro then thats not good.

the teams might not seem much different than last year, but thats a good thing for the braves and a bad thing for the mets. the mets have alot of older players declining. the braves have alot of young players improving.

By Efrim

January 31, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Keith Law(everyone’s favorite…not really) just came out with his Top 100 prospects. As far as the Braves go, he ranked 5 in the Top 100:

1. Jordan Schafer
2. Jason Heyward
3. Tommy Hanson
4. Cole Rohrbough
5. Gorkys Hernandez

Here is what he had to say on Schafer:

Schafer isn’t Grady Sizemore, but not many players are. He is an excellent athlete and has the strength in his arms to hit for average and power, but he has some mechanical issues. His load at the plate is a little too deep, and he doesn’t have the bat speed to overcome it, so he commits early and often ends up way out in front. He also gets too pull-conscious in games, despite showing a good whole-field approach in batting practice. On the plus side, the ball comes off his bat well, and if he can shorten up his swing, he should see improvement in his contact and long-term in his power output. He plays a strong center field with an above-average arm. I don’t project him as a top-shelf center fielder right now, but he is ranked this high because he has the physical tools to become one with some work on his swing.

Now look at what he has to say on Jason Heyward(Keep in mind Jay Bruce is ranked #2 this year):

Atlanta loves to take local high school products in the draft, but the Braves had no business getting Heyward, a top-10 talent, at No. 14. He is a strong 6-foot-4 outfielder with room to add even more strength, and he has a solid approach and huge power in his future. He is a good athlete who projects as a plus right fielder with a strong arm, but Atlanta should consider giving him one full year in center before moving him. He has good plate coverage, especially down, but because he sets up with the bat out from his body, he has to work on covering the ball in. Don’t be surprised if he goes all Jay Bruce on the minors over the next two years.

By OrlandoFan

January 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Following the box scores this spring is going to be quite fun. Looking at the young guys and how they are doing — and doing it against — will be a daily barometer. Grapefruit games are not the panacea for anything that ails, but they do provide a little grist for the mill of conversation — not that this blog ever needs that. Mets fans will be filled with pride and passion for their team and likely will let us know. Oh, wait, I think I’ve read a line or two of pride and passion from Mets’ fans. Only they come across and supremely arrogant. Remember what Ol’ Diz said, “If you can do it and say so, it ain’t braggin.’” Mets’ fans haven’t bothered with the “doing it” part.

By SNIPER-69

January 31, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

I’m sticking with my prediction for Pedro (150-180 innings) just like brave fans are predicting having a better season than the Mets. Great post Anders. There aren’t many brave fans who will say that because there was a lot of truth in that post. They’d rather live in denial than admit they haven’t done enough to close the gap between the two teams after the addition of Santana…GO METS (AND NY GIANTS)

By flange1

January 31, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Random,

One of the ESPN guys is saying the Mets are still in on Kyle Lohse even if they do work out the money with Johan.

I still think they will sign Livan and that the Phillies will sign Lohse.

Interesting ESPN is saying there is a LARGE gap between what the Mets want to pay Johan and what Johan wants.

Neils boor,

I agree with Lew that I believe Pedro will pitch LESS that 100 innings next year. Is that clear enough? Less than 180, less than 150, less than 100…

By Efrim

January 31, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Schafer was #27, Heyward #33, Hanson #66, Rohrbough #92 and Hernandez was #99.

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I guess Keith Law is NEVER going to release “loads too deep” as his mantra for Jordan Schaefer, LOL. It’s there forever, or, at least until Keith decides to look at some recent film. :-)

By Efrim

January 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Scoots

The guy is one of the most arrogant I have ever seen. He went to Harvard, so he isn’t dumb, but his confidence is way too high. I trust Baseball America’s rankings more than his. He obviously loves Heyward, so that makes me like him a little more. Braves have a deep system no matter whose prospect list you read.

The craziest thing about the list is that Schafer is ranked as the 27th best prospect, yet he is the 7th ranked Centerfielder. Centerfield is such a deep position in the minors right now.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 31, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Here are the facts. 1) Tex will replace A. Jones offensive production batting 4th, Kotsay doesn’t replace AJs offense, but his defense. Will Kotsay be as good in CF as AJ. Maybe not, but he is a really good CFer, with lots and lots of outfield assist. Kotsy has to replace the offensive production of the Thorman/Wilson platoon. I believe he will exceed Thorman’s .216/.258/.394 or Wilson’s .172/.304/.259. I also believe he will exceed AJs .222/.311/.413. He may not hit 26 HRs but I bet his production is better than AJs. Renteria will be missed, especially batting second, and in the clubhouse. The Braves scored more runs than the Mets last year and improved their offense. The mets offense is worse, And except at catcher their defense is the same or worse.

GO BRAVES…

By Lew

January 31, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Won’t it be something if the Mets can’t reach terms with Santana? To have to setle for Lohse and Livan. There’s poetic justice in that-or something.

By Lew

January 31, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Colorado Braves Fan is ahead in the Wurlitzer contest. Let’s get some more posts why the Santana (almost) signing isn’t such a good deal and why the Braves have become better. A few ideas of why the Mets fans here and Sniper in particular are morons would also help win the Francoeur drawing.

From Santana’s point of view-hecan hold out for all he wants. He is still under contract for this year and is only negotiating an extension. He could play out the year in Minnesota and make what he will make anyway (minus a signing bonus, of course) and wait until the offseason, when Boston and the Yankees will be more willing to negotiate, not having to give up most of their minor league talent.

By David-ATL14

January 31, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Anders

Something to keep in mind the Vegas odds are NOT a prediction of said pennant Race, but are numbers smartly based on the public’s lack of perception and how actual bets are made.

Santana will be a nice pickup if completed. The change in the mets odds are driven much more by the Fly by night fans and johnny come latelies that have and will continue to bet the Mets with the Santana acquistion.

As for why the bulidings are all tall in Vegas the CW or public is almost always wrong with plays like the Mets to win the NL pennant.Quick reminder go back abd check the odds of the Rockies winning the NL pennant in 07.

Should be an interesting season that can’t get here quick enough.

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Efrim, maybe KL loves Heyward because he hasn’t actually seen him, LOL. Kid’s played all of two weeks of pro ball. I mean, he’s all growed up, no doubt, but, man, wouldn’t we like to see him get a couple hundred ABs first? :-)

By richbrave

January 31, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Go over to Chop Chick’s and tell me if I’m in the running for that Wurlitzer or the “Dazed and Confused Award” instead.

By 22oz

January 31, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Do you have to include stats for a Wurlitzer-winning post? Because I’m feeling lazy, and don’t feel like looking up stats.

By TennesseePaul

January 31, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Braves prospects in the “Keith Law” top 100
(Rank, Player, Position, Team)

1. Jordan Schafer
   
2. Jason Heyward
   
3. Tommy Hanson
   
4. Cole Rohrbough
   
5. Gorkys Hernandez

Baseball America’s Braves Top 10 List

1. Jordan Schafer, of
2. Jason Heyward, of
3. Jair Jurrjens, rhp
4. Brandon Jones, of
5. Gorkys Hernandez, of
6. Brent Lillibridge, ss
7. Cole Rohrbough, lhp
8. Jeff Locke, lhp
9. Tommy Hanson, rhp
10. Julio Teheran, rhp

It’s interesting to say the least, the difference in opinion. I’d gather though, from these simple two lists that the five overlapping players are well regarded among major league talent evaluators. But out of curiosity I wanted to see where some other players ranked in the Keith Law/Baseball America juxtaposition.
Brett Anderson lhp, Dana Eveland lhp, Greg Smith lhp, Chris Carter infielder, Aaron Cunningham outfielder, Carlos Gonzalez outfielder

Baseball America Rank with DiamondBacks
1. Carlos Gonzalez outfielder
3. Brett Anderson lhp
8. Chris Carter infielder
7. Aaron Cunningham outfielder
N/R Dana Eveland lhp
N/R Greg Smith lhp

Baseball America Rank with A’s
1. Carlos Gonzalez outfielder
3. Brett Anderson lhp
10. Chris Carter infielder
N/R. Aaron Cunningham outfielder
N/R Dana Eveland lhp
N/R Greg Smith lhp

Keith Law’s Top 100 Rankings
42) Carlos Gonzalez outfielder
N/R) Brett Anderson lhp
N/R) Chris Carter infielder
N/R) Aaron Cunningham outfielder
N/R) Dana Eveland lhp
N/R) Greg Smith lhp

Now I question Law’s over all consensus building skills when it comes to ranking the top 100, but I do find it interesting that he put 5 of the Braves top 10 in his top 100 and only 1 prospect from the Haren deal in the top 100. The Braves #1 and #3 prospects on the Baseball America list were ranked considerably higher in Law’s list than all of the players in the Haren deal.

Of the Teixeira deal last year Salty is not ranked, but I’d imagine that is due to his playing in the Majors for some time and losing the “prospect” label in the process. Of the remaining 4 players Law ranks Elivs (31) and that’s it. Baseball America hasn’t gone through the Rangers system yet so I don’t have their rankings.

By Braveheart

January 31, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Pretty soon Keith Law will call Heyward the next Ryan Howard and create lots of buzz about that comment.

A year later, he will backtrack like he did with Schafer.

By TennesseePaul

January 31, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Wow, the blog just re-numbered all of those Law rankings. Here it is again and let’s see if the ranking numbers remain…

Braves prospects in the “Keith Law” top 100
(Rank, Player, Position, Team)

27 Jordan Schafer
33 Jason Heyward
66 Tommy Hanson
92 Cole Rohrbough
99 Gorkys Hernandez

By Anders

January 31, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Help Lew dig himself out of the HUGE* hole he put himself in on this whole Santana mess and win prizes!

By Niels Boor

January 31, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Overlord—

You call that “research”, huh? oKAY.

Maybe Glib? Facile? Disingenuous? Misleading?

Or maybe just damm sloppy. Or BRAINLESS.

Runs, hits, home runs?

Santana is moving from a league where he faced six of the top ten run-producing ML teams (two from his division) and only two of the bottom ten run-producing ML teams to a league where he’ll be facing seven of the bottom ten run-producing ML teams and only three of the top ten run-producing ML teams (two from his division).

He’s moving from a league where he faced five of the top ten hit-producing ML teams and only four of the bottom ten hit-producing ML teams to a league where he’ll be facing six of the bottom ten hit-producing ML teams and only four of the top ten hit-producing ML teams.

He’s moving from a league where he faced six of the top ten home run-producing ML teams (three from his division) and only three of the bottom ten home run-producing ML teams to a league where he’ll be facing six of the bottom ten home run-producing ML teams and only four of the top ten home run-producing ML teams (two from his division).

Rather than facing six of the top ten OPS teams (and four of the worst) he’ll be facing six of the bottom ten OPS teams (and only three of the best).

By Anders

January 31, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Lew

Do you really want to add a wrong prediction on the signing of Santana to the carnage that is your record on this matter?

By Niels Boor

January 31, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

DAP: its a myth that the AL has better hitters. 6 of the top 10 scoring teams are AL teams, but thats pretty close to half and half, and those AL teams get a DH.

DAP, you’ve got to look at the bottom 10 as well, which is heavily populated by NL teams in most offensive categories. For example, 7 of the worst 10 scoring teams are NL teams.

By flange1

January 31, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Hi Lew,

One of the things all of these Mets fans fail to address is the Braves having Tex in he lineup for a full year. Here is how I think the Braves have improved themselves for 2008:

The starting rotation Keep Smoltz and Hudson - PUSH Glavine at number 3 i - UPGRADE Hampton at 4 (if ready) - UPGRADE James at 4 if Hampton can’t go i- UPGRADE James, JJJ, Reyes, Bennett at 5 - UPGRADE

Bullpen Soriano over Wickman UPGRADE Moylan, Acosta, Yates, Boyer, Resop, Ohman, Ring are a better group than we started last year with UPGRADE

Starters Tex is a bit better than Thorman - UPGRADE KJ will be better in 08 than 07 on defense - UPGRADE Escobar will replace Edgar - SLIGHT DOWNGRADE Chipper is the man - PUSH McCann will be healthy - UPGRADE Frenchy is stronger - UPGRADE Kotsay will hit as well as AJ - SLIGHT DOWNGRADE B. Jones is better than W Harris - UPGRADE

Bench Diaz still a hitter - PUSH Thorman, catcher, Infante, Lillibridge, Prado - more athletic and better players than last year - UPGRADE

All in all the Braves have upgraded their roster from last year’s team and has developed a good bit of depth in the Starting pitching category and the bullpen category.

My opinion is that one more arm in the pen and maybe a 1B, 3B backup like Wiggenton and the Braves have the lineup that they wanted on the field in 2008 to win the Series no matter whom the Mets signed.

How is that Lew?

By ncscoots

January 31, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

a 1B, 3B backup like Wiggenton…

If the Braves were going to open up such a roster spot (they won’t, unless Thorman is traded, which I doubt), the guy to get would be Wes Helms. No place for him in Philly, he’s bound to be gone this spring.

By TennesseePaul

January 31, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Neils Boor: Santana is moving from a league where he faced…

Top Run-Producing ML team rankings:
From facing Six (6) of the top ten (10) (two from his division)…
To facing only three (3) of the top ten (10) (two from his division).
That’s a grand total of 9 of the top 10… where’d the other one go?

Bottom Run-Producing ML team rankings:
From facing two (2) of the bottom ten (10)
To facing seven (7) of the bottom ten (10)
That’s a grand total of 9 of the bottom 10… where’d the other one go?

Top Hit-Producing ML team rankings:
From facing five (5) of the top ten (10)
To facing four (4) of the top ten (10)
That’s a grand total of 9 of the top 10… where’d the other one go?

Bottom Home Run-Producing ML team rankings:
From facing three (3) of the bottom ten To facing six (6) of the bottom ten That’s a grand total of 9 o fthe top 10… where’d the other one go?

Top OPS-Producing ML team ranki