Braves

By wiki

January 23, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

1st?

By PABravefan

January 23, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Yes a new post!!! I sit her in Central PA searching the internet everyday for new info, and this site is my starting point! I can’t wait until this season starts!

By Land-Man

January 23, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Terence Moore smells.

By mike

January 23, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

I really like what Frank Wren has done. I don’t see any weaknesses at all on this team but there are two question marks for me. Can Mark Kostsay bounce back and can Will Ohman be effective at least until Gonzalez comes back? If those two things happen in addition to good starting pitching it will be a great year for Braves fans. I honestly believe that Kelly Johnson and Escobar are going to be good table setters and that Mccann and Francoeur are going to blossom into big stars. I also expect Chipper Jones to play at least 140 games and have a monster year with Texeira and him having runners on base all year long. Should be fun, can’t wait

By Lee in S. GA

January 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Thanks a new blog. I would also not put much faith in Hampton contributing much to the 08 Braves. Just consider it a bonus if he pitches around 10 games.

By Mike

January 23, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Good call on the Whigs, just previewed it. Nothing like indulging two great passions, baseball and music at the same time. Thanks for the updated post.

By 22oz

January 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

What angers me about American Idol is the fact that the judges seem surprised when somebody is terrible. Its called a filter! Have somebody stand at the door, asking people to sing a line. You’d have about 98% turned away, and save a heck of alot of time. What angers me even more is that my wife likes it.

I do like the Braves chances this year too, but i’m a blindly loyal fan who says that every January!

By Ron Roberts

January 23, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Been away from the blog a good bit over the offseason, Dave, but good stuff, as usual. What is the latest on Mike Hampton, anyhow? Is there a best-case scenario for his return? Will he pitch spring training ball?

By RichmondDawg

January 23, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

I am really excited about the potential of this season, but that is what every February holds. I am hoping that they can all play to their potential and the season will last into October. The 3 “old men” need to bring all they have, and the young guys need to learn all they can from Smolts and Glavine one last time around. Our offence will be fine if Chipper can stay healthy. Lets get football finished so my favorite sport can start. Play Ball!!!

Does anyone know how many Braves games will be on TBS this year, if any. Living in the city that just lost the R-braves, I don’t get Sports South, so I will be watching the games on my computer.

By John

January 23, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

I saw the Black Lips yesterday at GSU. They were very impressive. I feel like this should be the best Braves team in the past couple years.

By flange1

January 23, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the new blog!

I think the thing the Braves need to finish off the first winter of the Frank Wren regime is another experienced reliever. I would like to see us pick up Brian Fuentes from the Rockies.

I know that there has been discussions about trading for him, (mainly Chuck James straight up) but how about this proposal:

Fuentes to the Braves for Tyler Yates, Will Ohman and B. Pena.

The Rockies get 2 guys to help there pen NOW and a good accessory player that can also help.

I can see Soriano in the 9th, Fuentes in the 8th, Moylan and Acosta in the 7th, keep Bennett as long relief, and keep Boyer and the better of the 2 lefties or Resop as the last man.

This pen would be powerful and deep and would get even better when Gonzo returns.

If we are not giving enough, then take out Pena, and throw in Dan Smith or heck throw him in anyway…

Thoughts?

By N8

January 23, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

I know I’m gonna get flack from you on this DOB, and normally I stay out of the music conversations, since I feel that music (unlike sports), is a much more based on personal taste and opinion, rather than stats and history to back up who’s “good” or not. Unless of course you consider Milli Vanili winning a grammy a “stat” in their favor. :-)

But I’m gonna disagree with you on Amrican Idol. While sappy and a bit overdone for TV, Simon Fuller (the show’s creator and record label owner - NOT the witty English Judge), has struck gold with these shows across the world.

All they really are doing, is televising, what most record labels do to begin with. Except instead of talent scouts and record execs “stumbling” upon a great talent in a hotel lounge, or being sent out to “find” talent, they’ve found a way to not only have all the talent come to them, but have found a way to make a MINT on the not-so talented artists that make up the silliness portion of the show.

As a musician, it is easy to see who is truely gifted, and who just has decent voices. Most if not all of the winners, infact in the past 2 or 3 seasons MOST of the top 5 finishing contestants have jumpstarted a career that might have taken YEARS to get where they got, if they ever got the opportunity at all.

Sure the show is a bit “pop” for me. But my kids like it, my wife likes it, and I actually like it as well. I actually love the two Karaoke shows that are on the networks these day as well. Not for the singers (and there has been a few good ones), but because I consider myself a lyric buff, and it’s fun to try and play along.

I’ve never called you on this before, and believe me, I’m not trying to start a war. But are you a musician? Do you play an instrument, and if so, have you ever tried to play in a band, or even further than that, recorded any of your own music, and tried to not only sell it at gigs, but go through the long road of “shopping” it to recording studios while spending umpteen hundreds of dollars sending them to ANY and EVERY connection you can find, as to try and “make it”??

I have. It’s hard work. You not only have to be talented to get signed and fullfill your dream, you need to be in the right place at the right time.

So if your answer to the above question is no, don’t take offense to me not neccesarily taking your musical “opinions” with nothing more than a grain of salt. As I’ve stated MANY times, I feel music is in the ear of the listener. Whatever makes you enjoy listening is what is good to you.

Nothing that you, or any other person with an opinion (including the music “critics” at certain magazines or online sites), should matter if YOU like something. What makes music “good”?

The early beatles stuff is great, yet tacky. From a marketing standpoint (in America), they were essentially the first of the “boy bands”. They grew into the musicians and songwriters they were later in their careers, but they were no less puppets of their record label, then the Backstreet Boys or N-Sync are today. EVERYTHING about them was marketing and timing.

So, IMO, unless you’ve grinded it out in sh!tty clubs with 15 people there playing your original music, and tried to pay bills and put food in your mouth, you “judging” what music is good, who is talented and who SUCKS (a term you throw out a lot - which bugs me to no end. I would prefer you, or anybody, say “Not my bag, or I don’t like that” - but saying something sucks, is not right, IMO), that’s no more assinine then me (or Robert) trying to judge what goes on in the Braves clubhouse or how talented or not Bobby is as a manager.

It’s all opinion.

I hope I haven’t alienated what online “friendship” you and I have (I’ve held this in for a long time), because as a baseball man, I have a GREAT deal of respect for you.

But if your not a musician, then your musical opinions (whether it’s your blog or not), are nothing more than that of a FAN of music. Which in that case EVERYBODY is entitled to their opinion.

Sorry for the long post. This post is probably more words on the music subject, than I’ve typed on the topic in two years of blogging.

Just couldn’t sit quiet any longer.

By JerseyGil

January 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

I said it again….this will Chipper year(MVP) year…last year he was stolen the Golden Glove from that promise young kid from the Mets. He is good but not so good like chipper. Mr Wren address all the last year disapoint areas(Bullpen,Bench, etc) good job..but like DOB said, this will be a perfect year so we can win the east….Jimmy Rollins said yesterday that the Phillis will win 100 games Guarantee….so the braves with the perfect year will win 105… Keep the eyes this year on that Kid Jurrjens, he will save the Braves Rotation.

By John Adcox

January 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Personally, I am thrilled with this team, far more so than I would have been even with one of those money pit Yankee teams. This is a team that is in an excellent position to win from day one, has the flexibility to make moves at mid-season, and has enough unanswered questions to make watching fascinating through the long summer months. Say what you will: this team isn’t boring.

I think most of all, this is a team that I WANT to root for. Atlanta’s my home town, and I am proud of how this bunch represents it. This is going to be fun.

That Edwin Pope quote was brilliant. Like something Tom Boswell would write. I’ll be adding that to the collection.

John

By Efrim

January 23, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe

Maybe, but they both have to pay luxury taxes, so what else is there to do? Force them to trade away their minor league talent to level the playing field?

I agree, there is nothing we can do. The two financial power houses in Baseball have finally figured it out. Pay above slot in the draft and you will find jewels. It pains me to think of Tex in a Yankee uniform. Hopefully the Braves can get him for a discount of 6 years and 120 million.

By N8

January 23, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

22oz

That is the biggest “knock” on American Idol, but you unlike most aren’t getting the big picture.

Until they narrow it down to the final 24 (or whatever the “final” number is), the BIGGEST draw of the show is the BAD auditions. I know plenty of people that stop watching after the crappy people are gone, becuase it’s funny.

When has the Fox network ever done anything that isn’t “over the top”?

Being a fan of music in general, and liking “competitions” like that (LOVED Star Search as a kid), I would prefer more “good” people in the begining, but hey “disasters” make for good television, and unfortunately the execs at Fox know this too well.

I’ve read (and always assumed), that like any other reality show, there is much more “writing” and editing, going on than what they want the average viewer to believe. I would venture to guess, that some of those facial expressions and comments of the judges are edited in after wards, and quite simply, I doubt that half of those “auditions” are actually done in front of THE three judges. But make no mistake, the cameras are rolling.

I don’t tulely enjoy the show, until it gets to the “live” shows, where it pretty much just the singing, and the judges comments, and not so much of the BS, and back stories (which are surely done to sway voting). I don’t care about who’s dad beat them, or who’s in jail, or who’s a single mom. JUST SING.

I will state for the record, that I have NEVER voted while watching the show, and the only season I didn’t watch was season one.

If I’m gonna participate in something, it’s gonna be this blog, or my Chiefs’ message board. LOL!

By flange1

January 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

n8,

Very well said at 3:54. Aren’t you a guitar player?

By JerseyGil

January 23, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

That why i don’t blog so offen lately…if this a blog about the Braves or Music…i’m out of here…bye…see ya in spring training.

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

N8, appreciate the honesty, my man.

But American Idol still stinks. And selling a ton of records or getting high ratings just doesn’t impress me. But hey, different views.

By Jared

January 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

O’Brien is looking forward to his upcoming long vacation at mouseland.

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

JerseyGil, see ya in spring. Sorry to have wasted so much of your time by including two graphs about music at the end of a blog about the Braves.

By Lew

January 23, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

JerseyGil summed up well about Chipper/Wright that I was trying to say on the last blog which Shaun couldn’t see-“He is good but not so,good like chipper.” Couldn’t have said it any better, myself.

Cool, quoting Edwin Pope. A great sportswriter. His niece was a good friend of mine at UGA.

By flange1

January 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

JerseyGil,

We will miss your input. I hope you understand there is not a lot of Braves baseball happening right now.

Like you last post, you say you think Chipper will have an MVP season and JJJ will be the rotation savior.

Great! I hope you are right. But I don’t see anything to discuss about your post, I read it and agree, but ???

Why not have something to talk about? N8 just spent alot of time on a long post about the music business. I found it interesting in learning more about a guy that has been a major contributor to this blog for awhile.

Is that a bad thing???

I don’t think so..

See you in the spring

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 23, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Lets not forget about Chris Resop and Manny Acosta , they figure into the bullpen mix.

Again , I must ask , why is Buddy Carlyle still on the roster ?

By JC FROM UT

January 23, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

DOB: I read something about the Red Sox looking for a left handed bat off the bench, would Scott Thorman interest them at all?

By Braveheart

January 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

N8 I understand what you are saying about the musician angle but, without your wife and kids, would you be into American Idol? My father has been trapped into the Dancing With Stars and the American Idol thing because of my mother and sisters. I got trapped watching it one year because of a girl I was dating - she also got me trapped into watching Project Runway.

Almost every man I know who watches these reality shows does so because they get trapped into it by a girlfriend, wife, or kids. Most of the men I know will actually admit to liking these shows but they seem to like it more because they get swept up in the joy it brings to their wife and kids or their girlfriend and the fun they all have together watching it than actually liking what they watch.

It’s no different than the girls we date or wives we have or children we have who get swept up in the teams we love watching. They seem to love the Braves, Dawgs, and so on when we are with them but once we break up, they don’t watch or enjoy our teams so much. I think alot of them realize they don’t give 2 sh!ts about baseball the way they did when we forced them to watch every night and we were all nutty about every pitch and every player and we were happy, so that made them happy and they got so wrapped up in our enthusiasm.

I think if you stepped away from your marriage, you would realize you really don’t like the show itself - you just enjoy the mindless fun and quality family time it affords you after dealing with crap all day at work.

By N8

January 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Flange

Yes, been playing guitar for about 21 years.

DOB

Like I said. I’ve laid low on the subject because there’s a time and a place for every conversation. And quite honestly, it’s a conversation I’d rather have with somebody in person or via phone call. (no I’m not asking for your number LOL!).

Most of the time, I agree with your musical tastes. Also, I agree, selling a bunch of records doesn’t mean that you are great, on the flipside NOT selling records is no indicator of talent, only popularity (I know…common sense).

As for American Idol? I can totally see why somebody wouldn’t (and doesn’t) like the show. Don’t take that epic post as an American Idol rant. I would NEVER get that worked up about somebody raggin on that show (though it fueld my post).

My biggest pet pieve (sp?), is when somebody says somebody “sucks”. It’s just merely opinion.

Having said that, I realize that I often have said that somebody on the Braves (or my Chiefs) suck.

Not to stick up for myself, but I think the two are different. For instance, if I said Chris Woodward “sucked” last year, not too many people would disagree with that, where if you say that American Idol sucks, there’s about 30 some million people that disagree with you. You’d be hard pressed to find 30 million people to disagree with the statement about Woodward (unless he has a BIG family).

Same with you and your job. Even if I thought you “sucked” at it, which I don’t (not to go all Eddie Haskell on you), but even if I thought you sucked at your job, I’m not sure I would say that about you, or anybody that has a skilled, shooled profession, that is more style than “athletic skill” or say a surgeon, or a tax preparer. Does that make any sense.

I had an ex-bandmate that ALWAYS threw the “suck” word around about others, and it bugged the hell out of me. I think it’s rude to voice your OPINION on somebody else’s “artwork” that is personal (no matter how cheesey and commercial it is), to say it sucked.

I remember seeing an interview with Bret Michaels (of Poison), wonder why when Michael Stipe writes a song that’s from his heart and means something to HIM, that it’s brilliant and artistic, yet because he’s a hair metal guy, they same “rules” or opinions can’t/don’t apply.

The question makes sense to me. Especially since I’m not an REM fan. LOL!

Don’t get me wrong, I know some of the 80’s bands, and artist that gain commercial success off of shows like American Idol, might be cheesey and cookie cutter, but that does NOT mean that they are not talented.

Hell, Kip Winger is one of the cheesiest artist of all time (and he brought it upon himself by the way they marketed themselves, and their appearance in the 80’s), but the guy is a seasoned studio musician with chops from hell, and if you’ve ever listened to some of his post-winger solo work (which I’m quite certain you haven’t), he is a FANTASTIC player and songwriter. He just sold out and took the easy path.

But he will go down in history in three memories. (1) wearing hot pink spandex in the ever creapy “seventeen” video, (2) Having the name of his band be on “Stuart’s T-shirt” on Beavis and Butthead, and the Metallica guys throwing darts at his photo in the Nothing Else Matters video. Is that “fair”? I don’t know. But to say the guys sucks, is just ignorant to what it takes to play many musical instruments very well, which he can do.

Long story short. I have ZERO problem with people not liking the same kind of music as me. But when people say things suck or other people’s taste in music suck, I don’t care for that.

Sorry, again to ramble. Just didn’t want you to think it wasn’t well thought out.

By stamper

January 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

N8…not meaning to start anything but…

don’t be so defensive on American Idol. It’s a crap program. And, you don’t have to be a musician to really see artistic value or not… that’s just arrogant.

by that logic, only a filmmaker is capable of determining what a ‘quality’ film is… how stupid is that???

and don’t use the success of a producer and how many albums he’s gone on to promote across the world. whoopie… people are stupid. we’ll buy anything if it’s packaged effectively.

once again… look at cinema. by your logic, michael bay would be regarded as a truly innovative filmmaker. why? because he puts people in the seats? that’s just silly.

the name of the game for hollywood is to sell advertising.

for the case of AI… it’s not really about finding a true talent… if that were the case we wouldn’t be bombarded with coca-cola and ford adverts the entire program. its primary job is to sell advertising. entertainment is second. talent falls third.

the above rant was made with the best possible intentions… go braves!

By ContactBuzz

January 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

DO’B - don’t worry about the haters. I don’t post much but I check the site daily for updates. And I’m just as interested in your music and pop culture refernces as I am in your Braves updates. For example, I’ve added The Wire to my online rental queue (good show so far - about midway through season 1).

I downloaded DBT yesterday and like what I hear so far although I haven’t had a chance to listen to the full album. Cooley is a heckuva songwriter.

By Shaun

January 23, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Lew, nice but I wasn’t comparing Wright and Chipper. I was simply disagreeing with your statement that Wright wouldn’t be considered elite if Chipper had been more healthy the past few seasons.

By Alan

January 23, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Great blog, DOB, as always. Just as last year, starting pitching is the key, without doubt. No way are the Braves counting on anything from Hampton, nor should they. Even without him, “on paper” the Braves’ rotation is better than either the Phils or the Mets. For that reason, I like our chances. If the Mets get J. Santana, that might change things, but I still like our chances. All in all, I like what Frank Wren has done - although I’m a bit perplexed that he gave up Aybar and Fontaine for a 27-year-old LH reliever with almost no ML experience. I’m also not totally sold on Kotsay - he’s a bit of a gamble considering his recent history. He says he “feels great” - let’s hope it’s true. I know you’re a big movie buff, DOB. How do you - and everyone else - feel about the Oscar nominations? I, for one, am delighted with the nods to “Michael Clayton” - my runaway choice for Best Picture. Clooney, Wilkenson and Swinton (rolls off the tongue like Tinker, Evers and Chance) all were amazing. Clooney probably doesn’t have a chance to win Best Actor; the others have a very good shot for Supporting Actor and Actress, respectively. I’d love to get others’ thoughts. Thanks.

By cricket

January 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Please, I beg you all - stop talking about american idol. I can understand all different point of views, but please let the discussions about it be confined only to other million or so sites.

By N8

January 23, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Nope. I appreciate you trying to find an “out” for me though? LOL!

But, my wife and I often wonder what it is that drew us to eachother, because our musical tastes couldn’t be farther apart, and most of our movie and TV show tastes are that far apart as well.

The ONLY shows we watch together are Idol, House, Boston Legal, Rescue Me, Law & Order (SVU), and I got suckered into watching Celebrity Apprentice this year because Gene Simmons was on.

She has ZERO interest in watching sports on TV. Though she will go to basebal games with me when I go.

As for movies, my wife refuses to watch (or go) to commedies with me. Because I “laugh to loud” and she has to rewind so she can here what she missed after the funny parts. It all started with Adam Sandler’s Billy Madison. The scene where he pulled up to the High School with the Trans Am (T-Tops off of course), with Billy Squier cranking on the stereo and the REO Speedwagon jersey on with the jean jacket. I about pizzed myself (hit WAY to close to home), and she about left the theatre because NOBODY else was laughing as hard as me (too many young pups I guess). From that point on she avoids the comedies with me.

As for Idol, I just like watching people sing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hell, owning my own photo studio, I even forced myself to watch VH1’s reality show “The Shot”. BAD TV, btw. But I had a vested interest. Not to many TV shows about what I do, so I had to, right?

By McFann

January 23, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Gee wiz, JerseyGil, get over it! It’s DOB’s blog, and he cann write about whatever he wants, be it the Braves or music. That’s what his blog is, in case you haven’t noticed.

Personally, I thought his things about American Idol and Hanna Montana were funny. American Idol is pretty lame (never seen it, but hear about it way too often), and I don’t care for Hanna Montana, so that made me laugh.

By cricket

January 23, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

DOB or anyone else, I think this was covered in past blogs and I am sorry to bring it up again. I live in Tampa and would like to attend some of the spring games (have to depend on MLB.com for the regular season). Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions about how to plan this or where I can find some information / resources about this.

By Nelson

January 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

I say it again and again, this team (like any other) needs more pitching.Why don’t get Livan Hernandez, somebody made fun on me when I said that last time, I don’t know why because he is a huge competitor, specially in difficult situations, when this team tends to fail.

By 3trees

January 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Great update, DOB.

N8 - Well put and I agree that music is intensely personal, but as musician who has done all you asked of DOB, I still dislike AmIdol. I harbor no ill feelings towards those giving it a go, but I always wonder if the setting was 1960 and Dylan gave it a shot, what would (the Paula Abdula of her day) say? I know, maybe you don’t dig Bob, but fill in the blank… Townes VanZandt, Willy, Nick Cave, The Sex Pistols, etc…

Too much of what I dislike about what I hear on the airwaves - you’ve got 60 seconds to hit the high C or you’re outta here.

Braves - Hey, its late January, why not be optimistic?

Go Braves!

By Braveheart

January 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

N8 Maybe you need to stop laughing in the movie theater like Robert Deniro in Cape Fear.

By Tomahawkin

January 23, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Cricket Here in about 10 days or so you can get reviews on the spring training facilities at Ballparksofbaseball.com, there is a spring Training link that you can check on the reviews of the respected Ballparks in both the Grapefruit and Catus leagues, as well as any other current Present/future ballpark, for pricing you would prolly have to check the teams websites…

By McFann

January 23, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Neight

I agree with you on that s-word. I hate that word. But I don’t think there’s ever a time when that word should be used. I have a cousin who threw that word at me about the Braves. I’m sorry, but that word is simply offensive, for lack of another word.

But yet, why is it more tolerable to use the word “stinks” about something—“His voice stinks,” “His defense stinks.” Is that any less offensive? Maybe not, but at least it’s not obscene. I don’t know, I just hate that other word no matter what someone is talking about.

(not to go all Eddie Haskell on you)

That’s funny! I love Leave it to Beaver!!

By N8

January 23, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Stamper

You missed my point. Wasn’t trying to be pompous. I think EVERYBODY is entitled to an opinion. I just take offense to the word “suck”.

If you think Idol is a crappy program, that is fine. I like it. You don’t have to. I understand that the format of the show, along with Fox looking to make money off of it, is what fuels the program.

I don’t like that part of it either. But the point you are making can be made for any sporting event. Did you ever think you’d see the day that major league parks would have as much advertising on their outfield wall as the minor league parks do?

Or that Jack Del Rio would have to have CUSTOM suits made by Rebok, so he isn’t breaking the sideline wardrobe rule? Come on! It’s all corporate out there. That doesn’t mean that the PRODUCT still can’t be good.

If you think Idol is a lame show, that’s cool, but don’t say that there hasn’t been some incredibly talented people on there. There has.

As far as the “having to be able to do it before judging it” take I had with DOB. That stems from him making comments towards people ragging on Braves players or Bobby.

DOB has said something along the line of “well all of his peers and the other managers in baseball think he’s great”. (that’s not a direct quote, just paraphrasing).

What about Carrie Underwood? She’s not my cup of tea, but you’re not gonna find a “peer” of hers in the Country Music industry that don’t have respect for her ability.

So what if she got her “big break” on a reality show?

It doesn’t matter HOW you got there, it’s what you do ONCE your there, IMO.

Now, having said that, I can see why if somebody likes Bobby Cox, they would be offened at Robert saying he SUCKS. However, if somebody would say that they don’t like his “style” of managing games, or his use of platoons, blah, blah, blah… You get the picture.

“and don’t use the success of a producer and how many albums he’s gone on to promote across the world. whoopie… people are stupid. we’ll buy anything if it’s packaged effectively.”

That comment I take a little offense to. That isn’t the point I was trying to make. Yes the American public is pretty generic and will follow along like sheep if there buddy likes something. Don’t mistake my rant(s) for me sticking up for popular music. I’m not. I have different reasons for liking different artists.

Two of my favorite bands are bands that have NEVER gained much commercial success. Those bands are Kings X and Cry of Love.

I just don’t think because something happens to “catch on” that it is instantly sh!tty, because the masses like it.

Take Blues Traveler for example. Those guys were around for EVER. Again, not my bag, but they worked their azzes off, and were very unique. Then all of the sudden their on everybody’s TV and radio every 10 seconds, and they all of the sudden are “sellouts”.

How about Metallica. I was a HUGE Metallica fan throughout the 80’s. Let’s just say, I fit the “angry young teenage boy” market the were gunning for. But I have NO PROBLEM admitting that the Black Album is, IMO, their best effort when it comes to songwriting and over all playing. Though many die-hard Metallica fans, consider that album the day Metallica died. Why? Because the “secret” got out and everybody liked Metallica? Whatever happened to fans of the band being exicited that they achieved some success? Just be glad they made enough money on that album and tour to continue making music for as long as they so choose.

How about Guns n Roses? It doesn’t get much more “commercial” than that, does it? Yet Appetite for Destruction is considered by most people (myself included - and I bought it two weeks after it came out - some 12 months before Sweet Child O Mine and Paradise City hit the airwaves - most critics said they will NEVER get any airplay because of the lyrical conten), that to be the greatest hard rock album of the 80’s if not ever?

To me, greatness has NOTHING to do with album sales, it’s how it moves YOU.

I don’t get Johnny Cash. Never have like him, probably never will. Do I think he sucks? Nope. Would never say that in a million years. I have the utmost respect for him. Just don’t like him, nor would I ridcule anybody who does.

By Tomahawkin

January 23, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Gotta Co-Sign on your views of “American Idiot” Dave

I can’t tolerate that crap unless I’ve got a decent buzz, but I’m not gonna go outta my way to watch it, I’d rather be watching Niptuck on Tuesday nites…

And D.O.B. You wanna talk about “vapid mediocrity (or worse) and pure hype”

Look none other that the Romper Room Rap/Rock that is played on BET and MTV, I can’t tolerate to hear 30 seconds of that crap without changing the Channel, Gawd I long for the days of Beavis and Butthead. They wouldn’t put up with this crap that’s hot right now…

3 More Weeks! Go Braves!

By Lew

January 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun-One could well believe that if Chipper had not been injured the past several years, he would have put up even better numbers than what he did-which were pretty damned good to begin with. Had Chipper added to his numbers, Wright would not have been voted to the All Star Team. Wright would not have won the Gold Glove. Wright would not have won the Silver Slugger. Wright probably would not be headed on the road to World Conquest. Hence, he would NOT be considered the best third baseman in the NL. I don’t think he is, anyway.

But all of that is not even peripheral to the point that I was making to Anders-You could claim the same for any player who had missed significant time due to injuries that Anders made in regard to Moises Alou. Wright really wasn’t even part of the equation to the point I was making. You picked up on the one most meaningless segment of my post and made it a subject in itself.

By N8

January 23, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

DeNero in Cape Fear. LOL! Good one.

McFann

I agree, maybe I’m double standarding between sports and art.

But, let’s say Whitesnake (DOB’s favorite). Somebody might not like them and think that they “suck”. That’s their opinion. However, I find using the suck word, on any album that Steve Vai has played on to be silly.

On the other hand, if one were to say that Kelly Johns “sucks” at going to his right, is that too far from the truth?

To me, with sports, the results speak for themselves. Tom Glavine SUCKED in his last three starts for the Mets last year. But that surely doesn’t mean that HE sucks. Understand, where I’m coming from?

By cricket

January 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the info Tomahawkin

By Tomahawkin

January 23, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

I kinda think that when people say that (Sucks) Its usually out of anger while watching the games, or maybe its the competitive fire in us but, its the word that everyone prefers to say, other than blows, event the media says it so its just a part of society I think…

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Alan, I seriously thought this list of Oscar nominations in the main categories (movie, director, actor/actress and supporting actor/actress is the best I can remember. Ever. I mean, the five best-picture nominations are all terrific, as are the acting nominations. Just watched that Away From Her on DVD last week, and Julie Christie was superb. I think Day-Lewis (obviously) and her are most deserving, even though I loved Tommy Lee Jones in Valley of Elah.

I think Javier Bardem and Philip Seymour Hoffman should share the best supporting actor, but obviously they won’t. Bardem will win, and certainly is deserving. It’s just that Hoffman was so great in three movies this year, hate to see him not get honored.

As long as either No Country for Old Men or There Will Be Blood wins for Best Picture, it’ll be righteous with me. Both were sensational. I think No Country will win, however.

By McFann

January 23, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

I understand what you’re typing, Neight, but I still think people should refrain from using that word. Why not just say “stinks”? But I guess we who get offended by it should just try to ignore it and keep our chins up. Somebody’s always gonna use that word about something. With my cousin, I think it was that whole “They like it, so we don’t” thing. That’s the way a lot of people are: If somebody likes something, the other person might say it [stinks]. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion…as long as it’s a true opinion.

By Tomahawkin

January 23, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

No Prob Bob…That website is where I get my 411 about every new stadium that is being constructed…(I Like to look at the renderings and construction photos, so that I will know what it will look like before they open…)

Its a good website brah…, and check out the reviews of each stadium. the people who have visited the sites will give you the pros and cons of each facility, including food and beverage prices in many cases….

By Bryan

January 23, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Dave - The Album by Black Mountain - In the Future is pretty good … really really good - its picking up 4 stars and A reviews on some pretty stingy sites … check it out.

Ween - Tuesday - still tickets available.

By Tomahawkin

January 23, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

We’ll I guess everyone up in here can all co-sign to this and that definitely all braves fans know that TBS And A.O.L./T.W. SUCKS! for taking “America’s” team off the air…

I just went to their website and there was no mention at all on if they are gonna do a game of the week, I maybe blinb but I didn’t even see a TBS/Sports like, What a Joke!

By Saltywoody

January 23, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

N8 Gotta chime in on this discussion.

American Idol, in every way shape and form, sucks. I also don’t particularly like that word, but I think it’s 100 percent applicable as applied to this horrific show.

American Idol is a microcosmic snapshot of what is going on in our culture at large…namely, mediocre talent being pumped up by certain media conglomerates with particular agendas and promoted as outstanding- and everyone else buying into it. Incidentally, I think this is also what DOB’s getting at. And I agree.

Shows like Hannah Montana and whatever the heck Britney Spears’ little sister is on and American Idol and all similar pop-culture nonsense teaches kids that acting talented and overly mature and sexy MAKES you so…which is decidedly not the case. And it’s an awful message to send to kids at impressionable ages, which is exactly what the bulk of these shows audiences consist of.

American Idol, and shows like it, celebrate mediocrity and denegrate real talent. Outside of Kelly Clarkson (whose music I don’t like but who I think has a truly outstanding voice) and Carrie Underwood (same, with slightly less talent), the show has not produced a single star-caliber singer. It is the equivalent, for me, of the Real World…where average people are put on TV, we’re told they’re famous and important and, because of this, they kind of end up being so despite being completely mediocre and, in some cases, way below that.

The contestants don’t write their own songs. They don’t play their own instruments. In most cases, they’re not even in charge of how they look and or what they wear. They stand on a stage, dolled up by others, and sing other people’s songs. How does that qualify as talent?

I’d define talent, in large part, as displaying originality in some form. That’s why a guy like Hendrix is considered by so many to be talented…because he did things no one ever had before.

American Idol is not talent, it’s recycled mediocrity airbrushed into looking somewhat spectacular. And even the name of the show itself, “AMERICAN IDOL,” suggests that these are all people we should idolize. And they’re not. They’re far from it.

So, sorry for the vent. But, for me at least, American Idol is everything that’s wrong with our culture right now. By and large, we don’t read good novels anymore, we don’t strive to find unique and good music, and we don’t have attention spans that make these kinds of high-brow and stimulating activities possible.

Instead, we’re content to sit on our butts and be spoon fed garbage. And the more we’re told this garbage tastes like cake, the more we become inclined to believe it.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 23, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

American Idol is to music as the NBA is to sports and only to be watched during the playoffs.

By OrlandoFan

January 23, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Excited to see a new blog and to be excited about being so close to the opening of camp. That’s a great time to read this blog and be a fan. Already have tickets to the first Saturday game and am looking forward to that (at least I’ll get to see some of the younger players then for sure).

By Lew

January 23, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I saw Whitesnake twice while working with a radio station in Tampa/St.Pete. The first time they sucked-very, very badly. The second time with Steve Vai they Did NOT suck. Steve Vai kicks a$$ and apparently taught Adrian Vandenberg quite a bit while he was at it. Kitten’s got claws, apparently.

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Saltywood, thank you. And I concur wholeheartedly.

By the way, I’m gonna pretend I never saw, in any way, the words Beatles and Backstreet Boys in the same sentence or thought earlier in a comment.

By McFann

January 23, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, I agree with every word of your post.

But let me just re-phrase the beginning: American Idol, in every way shape and form, is a lame show. The third definition of “lame” fits it well. This does not necessarily mean that I hold anything against those who like it, i just think it’s lame-o!!

You have a lot of smarts on this subject, Saltywoody. Laura Ingraham talks about this a lot. Our music/TV culture is goin’ sour. That’s why at our house we watch the likes of Leave it to Beaver and I Love Lucy and listen to groups like the Eagles, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, the Monkeys, the Carpenters, and so forth. (My favorite might have to be Amy Grant.)

And with me and my music, I just listen to a song if I like the words or whatever, and make it a point not to care much about who the singer is, or what’s up with their life. (Course, most of the people I listen to are dead.) But if I already know that someone’s a real creep, I’ll steer clear of their stuff. And if I know that someone is a fairly good person, then I’ll like their songs all the more.

Like with the Braves, I liked McCann OK after 2005. Then on March 5, 2006, I read an article about him in the AJC, and I thought, “He’s a pretty good dude.” Then, well, one thing led to another, and I became the way I am today.

Anyway, I guess my point is, people make too big a deal about these creepy guys and gals in the pop-culture. Parents should be more responsible with what their kids watch on TV. And if kids really need an “idol”, they should look up to someone who stands for something decent and has real virtues.

By Alan

January 23, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m with you on Philip Seymour Hoffman (no relation to Trevor or Dustin, near as I can tell) - he’s a fabulous actor. Speaking of which, “Charlie Wilson’s War” was another really good movie. And it’s a true story. I’m reading the book now. Congressman Wilson (D-Texas) was a hoot. Still is - he and other “characters” were at the premiere of the movie. Only in America, as they say. Go, Braves!

By N8

January 23, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody

Totally understand where you are coming from, with the American Idol thing. Totally respect your opinion.

“The contestants don’t write their own songs. They don’t play their own instruments. In most cases, they’re not even in charge of how they look and or what they wear. They stand on a stage, dolled up by others, and sing other people’s songs. How does that qualify as talent?”

Blind faith, my man, in what the Music industry has been for YEARS. Elis didn’t write a lot of his songs. I’d consider him original. Guys like Meatloaf and Elton John (truely talented guys - though I can’t really stand to look at either of them), neither of which have written many of their own songs.

As for the look? Do you think the Beatles designed their own “look”? Are you kidding me? Wake up. Do you think the guys from REM walked into their video and photo shoots with clothes the just threw on in the morning?

Find me one band that hasn’t had HIGH DOLLAR photo shoots to make them look larger than life, and as “marketable” as they can be?

“Instead, we’re content to sit on our butts and be spoon fed garbage. And the more we’re told this garbage tastes like cake, the more we become inclined to believe it.”

Judging from your post you’re and old school guy who’s seen it all, that’s cool. How about this next old school word (along with the wikipedia “definition” of it):

Payola:

In the American music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on music radio, in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day’s broadcast.

Seems to me, that the record industry FOR YEARS has been shoving down our throats many artists, that have now gone on to become legends, with numerous hits and the “credibility” to get enshrined into the R&R HOF.

The idea that TODAY’S media is any more guilty of shoving crap down our throats is silly, and misinformed. The only difference, is that in today’s world, if Brittney Spears shows her underwear, EVERYBODY has instant access to it on youtube.

Just the same that some music that might be considered “not very good”, gets over exposed, some wonderful musicians are getting MUCHO recognition through the multi-media outlets of sites like I-tunes, and what not.

In my neck of the woods, certain albums in years past would have had to be special orders or imports, or I would have to wait until I hit a major market to find some of the underground stuff that was out there. Today you just have to look for it online and click “buy”.

But like I said. I respect your opinion on Idol. Like I don’t expect to understand why some don’t like certain artists, shows, songs, etc… I’ve never gotten into the business of trying to convince somebody about what I think is good.

To each his own, and I truly mean that.

DOB

Sorry to use both of those bands in the same sentence before. I am a huge fan of one of them, and not so much of the other. Let’s just say the band with only two living members remaining is the one I like.

In no way, shape or form, was I intending on comparing their musical integrity, talent or relevance.

But for you to deny that they were the “original” boy band (especially when McCartney has said so himself), with all the hype, hoopla, and screaming chicks and frenzy that followed, is odd.

Let me ask you. When you first heard of them (or heard them) what did you think? I wasn’t alive. But I’m history of music buff, so I’ve watched many documentaries, read a tone of interviews with both Lennon and McCartney, and of course as a musician (or anybody with a set of working ears), am a fan.

I know the girlies liked them, but in the day and age of buzz-cuts, what did the American male think of them from the get go?

Anybody alive, when beatle-mania hit, feel free to answer.

By MetsFan1009

January 23, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Dave…face it The Beatles were the first Backstreet Boys. Just because you don’t think so means nothing…..

and N8….your opinions suck.

By Chopdawg

January 23, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Congrats DOB on winning the alliteration award of the offseason: “copious quantities of coffee.” Here’s hoping a hugely heroic Hampton and an egregiously gregarious Gonzalez can generate goodtimes for tens of thousands of tomahawkers at the Ted.

By BosnianBaller

January 23, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

At least the cardinals have a ring and pujols

By Phil in GA

January 23, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

DOB - hey, avid reader here for past couple years, rare poster. But for some reason, I felt compelled to post today. Maybe it was The Whigs reference (that made me go search for their CD this evening - Give ‘em a Big Fat Lip has been in my cd player all week along with Tony Trischka and Band of Horses’ most recent. ‘Bout time for a new one from The Whigs).

Agree with you on Hampton not needing to be counted on - in fact, I feel pretty OK with pitching both starting and in the ‘pen. The thing I just can’t get over right now is how little folks seem to be missing Renteria.

The last time I posted was at the end of the season and I talked about how much I think Atlanta fans will appreciate Andruw, in sum, much more after we have some time without him - out there everyday, defense, power, etc. I think the same with Renteria, too - except that I feel it will be a much more immediate pain.

Like I think you have even said before, I can’t think of a better two-hitter. Especially now, to let him go with the likes of Chipper and Tex behind him in the order…. Man, I know K.J. and Escobar had good years last year, but just knowing what you will get out of a player is so rare. I think the last two years, by far, Renteria was the most consistently solid player the Braves had.

Less splashy, sure, but that’s part of his appeal. He FIT the two-spot in the lineup. I really don’t think K.J. or Escobar - or anybody else for that matter - really fits it like Renteria did.

One unrelated question: What do you think the likelihood is of the Braves trading away one of their plethora of possible centerfielders before spring training concludes?

Seems instead of either getting a proven guy or just letting Schaefer take over, Wren split the difference and just took whatever he could get in sheer quantity - especially when you add the minor league help already there to the offseason CF pickups

(And I know, I know, Kotsay’s had good years in the past - not debating that - just in my opinion I don’t think you can say he’s the guy. of course, I also am biased against the one-year rentals. If you’re only willing to pay to bring in a mid-level guy, come on, just let the young kid in your system have at it right away….but I digress…)

Think the Braves would be confident enough at some point before the season starts to trade one or two away for to bolster the team somewhere else?

Oh, I lied - one more thing. This IS the last year for Dodgertown, right? Think I may try to hit up the Braves-Dodgers game in Vero Beach this spring.

Bring on the pitchers and catchers!

By BosnianBaller

January 23, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

This is the least exited I have ever been for a Braves season.we had a chance to be an elite team in the NL and wren played it safe.If you look at who we brought in and who left it’s tough to say we had a good offseason.I understand edgar had to be moved b/c of his salary,but getting jair and gorkeys is simply not enough.Our core players are a year older and if one goes down especially a pitcher we are screwed.

By Wayne in Utah

January 23, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Lets hope the writers stay on strike longer, so we can get more reality TV!

By Alan

January 23, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

N8, I was a teenager when the Beatles came to America, and I was not a fan of theirs. (I am now, incidentally.) In those days, I liked classic rock-and-roll and R & B, and the Beatles were obviously neither, although their music was influenced by both. Teenage girls loved the Beatles; I’d say it was 50/50 with boys, maybe lower than that. I think it’s fair to compare them with the Backstreet Boys vis a vis their relative effect on young girls - no one dares to compare the two groups musically. The Beatles were a cultural phenomenon - probably no more so than Frank Sinatra in the ’40s and Elvis Presley in the ’50s - except they were four mop-heads from England. America hadn’t seen - or heard - anything like them before. “British Invasion” indeed. And then came the onslaught. Rolling Stones, Dave Clark 5, Herman’s Hermits, Jerry and the Pacemakers. And many, many more.

By N8

January 23, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

MetsFan1009

Just because the Beatles were the last relevant event at Shea Stadium, doesn’t mean you have to be so negative.

:-)

Smile, god loves you.

By Thrillhouse44

January 23, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Great blog, once again, DOB. I’m getting amped up for the 2008 season! I love this subtle dig at Anders, Metro Man, and the rest of that crew: which is presently held by Philly after the Mets’ Great September Collapse of ’07..

If things fall into place, this is going to be an exciting season. It’s just too bad I won’t be able to watch as many games since TBS has changed their lineup.

By Lew

January 23, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I was twelve when Meet The Beatles came out. I saw all the Ed Sullivan shows they appeared on. The first album I ever owned was the Beatles Second (had all the old standards like Roll Over Beethoven, Long Tall Sally, Til There Was You, etc) and the first 45 I ever owned (damn does THAT date me) was I Want To Hold Your Hand. They were the absolute cutting edge of music at the time. They took old rock and roll standards and introduced them to an entire new audience. They were also prolific songwriters that were at the forefront of musical change during an era of change. Almost everything they ever did was a sure hit before it was even released.

It is really difficult to explain their impact to anyone into music since then, because NO ONE has had that kind of impact on the music industry since then. Yes, there are plenty of good, original and excellent bands since the Beatles, no doubt-many of them much more musically competent and better musicians than the Fab Four (eg. Hendrix and Zeppelin may have done more to change musical direction and DOB will tell you the Clash was up there, too, though they were after my time and I missed their impact).

However, no one affected an entire generation of music listeners the way they did. While they were recording, no one anywhere would argue that they were THE number one band around, hands down. They influenced music, fashion, morality and social convention, like nobody has since them. Their impact is much more easily compared to legends like Sinatra, Elvis were to pop music and Hank Williams, Sr. was to Country. The Rolling Stones were close in their impact and without the Beatles coming first, may have been that influential, but didn’t quite make it-they were a bit more than a year late.

By brian

January 23, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

compare this team to the previous 2 teams and I think Wrenn has made significant strides. Yes there are question marks and an injury or two will kill us.

We are much deeper in starting pitching - both with experience and young arms (Jurgens, JoJo, and James). Bullpen is much stronger and if Gonzalez comes back pretty strong, it will be like a July trade. Lineup is still potent and probably has better overall hitters (less strikeouts please!).

Cannot wait until the start of this season. Braves win the World Series then Glavine and Smoltz ride off in the sunset

By jay

January 23, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Hey, DOB What is going on in this blog? Why in the world would anyone take the time to write a complete essay on American Idol. (N8) I can not believe that some off these folks are trying to take over your blog. I mean it is your blog right? Seems to me your a pretty popular guy around here. I think you have all the right in the world to have an opinion on everything under the sun. As for me a restless braves fan that can’t hardly wait for the season to start. I look forward to your blog whenever I can. So keep it up don’t change a thing. And for the retards who like some boring crap like American Idol your gay. If you don’t like it don’t read it, don’t even come here complaining because DOB is tha man. GOT IT!! Go Braves

By Braveheart

January 23, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

After all that American Idol talk, N8 needs to go Seacrest tonight when he signs off.

“Nathan. Out.”

By Chopdawg

January 23, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

1st Beatles 45 released in the US was “I Want To Hold Your Hand”/”I Saw Her Standing There.” Two great songs on one record; that hadn’t been done before. The energy was incredible. Lennon/McCartney were great songwriters from the beginning; on top of the energy and the talent was the group’s ability to change. I remember all through the 60’s, hearing a new song on the radio & wondering wow, who’s the new group—& finding out I was listening to the new Beatles song ((I remember this especially with McCartney’s song “Lady Madonna”—thought it was Elvis, first time I heard it (keep in mind there were only AM stations then & the quality of the sound you heard over your car radio wasn’t nearly as strong as it is today))

By David-ATL14

January 23, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Solid blog DOB and to you saltwoody, an OUTSTANDING POST at 5:51PM.

Couldn’t have said it any better or any more eloquently.

AI is garbage, we are all worse off wheter we watch it or not for it gracing the television set.

The dumbing down of American TV for all to see. A sad pathetic sight in actuality.

By Shaun

January 23, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Lew, you’re right. There is only room for one “elite” thirdbaseman in the NL. No matter how great one is before age 25, there’s only room for one.

By MetsFan1009

January 23, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Where’s the Fatty Mccann going to play when he can’t squat anymore?

What do you call a .290 hitter with 19 homers and a gold glove, but for his arm? A average RF. Not elite.

too bad. just, way too bad. oh what could have been if we had just kept andruw and salty.

By Lew

January 23, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Excuse me, but your still And Idiot. Good night.

By Saltywoody

January 23, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

N8 Judging from your post you’re and old school guy who’s seen it all, that’s cool.

Funny part about that is that I’m actually 25. The sad part about that is so many people today would qualify not liking American Idol because it’s crass and preferring to read as “old school.”

I’m not saying that as an attack on your assertion that you like AI. I, like you, respect everyone’s likes and dislikes.

What I will say is that it’s difficult for me to grasp how being intellectual and discriminating in one’s tastes means that they’re “old school.” If anything, shouldn’t this be something we all aspire to? Shouldn’t we strive to be as bright and as discerning as possible? Shouldn’t that be every young, up-and-coming generation’s ideal: to be even more progressive and unique and inventive than the last?

Instead, it’s like my generation has taken a step or four backwards. We’re less inventive than ever. We have less imagination than any generation previous. Almost everything we consume, from music to television, is recycled and unoriginal. To find truly great and inspiring materials nowadays, we have to dig deeper than ever.

The reward, though, for all the digging is very gratifying. Kind of like stumbling around your favorite sports team’s website, finding a beat writer whose writing you like, and then discovering he’s got a blog where good music, good movies, and good opinions are tossed around on a readily accessible basis.

Which reminds me: I saw Juno last night. I’d been meaning to see it for some time, considering how much it had been bandied about here. And I was very impressed. Great dry, sarcastic wit throughout. Excellent treatment of tough subject matter in that teen pregnancy isn’t something I think should be glorified, but Juno touches it in such a way as to condemn abortion without making young pregnancy seem heroic. Michael Cera is awesome in it (quickly becoming a comedic genius), and he’s got a particularly great line I think applies here.

Juno says towards the end of the flick that she likes Bleeker because he doesn’t try too hard at being cool. And Bleeker responds “Actually, I try REALLY hard.”

Thing is, I think being cool and original and inventive is all about trying and working so hard at something that you get to a point where you don’t appear to be trying at all. But, this is where my generation and many others get confused. The truly great actors and musicians and writers didn’t get where they are by magic. They worked their butts off to hone their craft and the end result (which is almost all you and I see) appears to be them just standing up and rocking out.

American Idol is that standing up and rocking out without the initial work put in behind the scenes. No craft has been honed there…it’s focused on almost instant gratification, which is mostly why it’s not very good.

It’s like sober, televised karaoke taken seriously. Yikes.

By Efrim

January 23, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

On this whole Wright/Chipper thing, I understand Wright is a Met, and we all know that Braves fans are suppose to hate the Mets, but Wright is a f*** stud. If offensive numbers Wright is putting up are ridiculous. Chipper is a Hall of Famer, Wright will be too. Both players are elite. They are the two best third baseman in the National League, especially now that Cabrera is gone.

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Phil in GA, it is the last year at Dodgertown, so you and everyone else who hasn’t (or has) been there should try to make it back once more. There will never be another spring training site like it. I love that place, even though the pressbox is a bit sparse. Who cares? It’s spring training. (And besides, I have the broadband card to work with on the laptop.)

As for CFs, I don’t think they will trade one before spring training’s over for two reasons: Kotsay’s health issues and the fact that all of the kid CFs have options. So they don’t need to trade any of them.

Oh, and the new Whigs CD is as good as Give ‘Em All a Big Fat Lip, and you know how great that CD is….

By the way, glad to see most of our crowd seems a bit more selective and demanding than the masses who’ve given that awful show such huge ratings. Good stuff from you folks regarding the Beatles.

N8, Beatles weren’t last great act to play Shea — the Clash later played there. Oh, yeah. The video from that show is amazing.

By GeorgetownKid

January 23, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

I think that am the only person in America that has never seen a single episode of American Idol, so I can’t jump into that debate. But I’m not suprised that David O’Brien doesn’t like it, as he seems to be a real purist when it comes to his music. So plastic reality shows that glorify the quest to become a pop-star probably aren’t his cup of tea.

Anyway, regarding the Braves, one thing that I believe is unequivocal is the fact that the Braves get amazing value for their payroll dollar. When you consider that we are paying almost half of our roster, including half of our key players, $2 million or less, and (other than Hampton) we don’t have a single bad contract on our books, you cannot help but be impressed.

Octavio Dotel recieved a pay raise from Chicago based on his performance and reliability last year. Countless .500 pitchers make $10 million a year or more, and we routinely read about contract signings that we immediately know the team will regret in the very near future.

If Kotsay stays healthy, we could receive improved offensive production from CF for one-seventh the price!

You can’t help but be impressed with the fact that the Braves have a roster that is as good, if not better than the Mets, despite the fact that they spend countless millions more.

If Wren and JS are as savvy with financial investments as they are with payroll investments, they must be friggin’ loaded!

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Alan, PSH’s performance in Charlie Wilson’s War might be my favorite of the year. Not quite the towering performance of Day-Lewis, but every bit as entertaining. I mean, he sizzled in every one of his scenes in Charlie Wilson’s War, which I thought was one of the best dozen movies of the year.

By TommyP

January 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

N8: I couldn’t agree with anything anyone has ever said on this blog moreso than I agree with your first post.

I always wonder why people don’t consider “singing” a talent. It’s amazing that the ones that dismiss singing in favor of songwriting and playing an instrument all listen to generally the same genre: rock.

A friend of mine from years ago was in a rock group and I believe still is. Did they write their own music? Yes. Do they play instruments? Yes. Can he sing? Absolutely not but he’s one of these music snobs as well. He feels it’s so overrated. LOL Again, always amazing how the people that criticize singing competitions and certain musical genres have absolutely no singing talent themselves.

If the lead singer can’t sing, I absolutely don’t want to hear it. But that’s just my opinion.

I mean, say what you want, but the movie “Walk The Line” had an actor singing the legend’s songs and the actor undoubtedly sounds better. Of course, I’m sure I’ll be bashed for that but I expect that here.

Again, N8, GREAT post and tactfully done.

By Lew

January 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I apologize. No matter how true that last statement was, it was unworthy of me.

You still refuse to see that I was making a point that had nothing whatsoever to do with David Wright. I was answering Anders’ remark concerning Alou’s injury propensities and trying to point out to him that had Chipper not undergone his own injuries, his increased playing time would have added to his numbers significantly enough that he would still be viewed as THE premier 3B in the NL as opposed to the common consensus that Wright now holds that position.

I did not say Wright was not good or even elite, if that is your preferred terminology. I did not say that there was no room for more than one good 3b in the league (was not Cabrera there until recently? Or how about Scott Rolen when not injured?) Nowhere did I state that Wright was not Man Of the Year for Esquire Magazine, or People Magazine’s Most Sexy Human. Or the greatest third base prospect since Mike Schmidt. Or that he was the most charitable person in all of baseball today. Or that he would not make a good President. Or that he should not rule the Known Universe as Supreme Dictator.

Quite honestly, if I had known it would have thrown you into a frenetic, mouth foaming, seizure inducing episode such as it has, I would have just drawn a picture instead and not even bothered blogging today, or at the very least, not answered Anders. Please, for the Love of David Wright-shut up about it.

By David O'Brien

January 23, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

By the way, Phil, the Earl has two great shows this weekend — Whigs on Friday, Selmanaires on Saturday.

By McFann

January 23, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

MetsFan1009

Your and idiot.

What do you mean “we”, dummy? Aren’t you a Mets fan? Strange as it may be coming form me, but I’d rather have Francoeur’s bat than AJ’s at this point.

As for the beginning of your post…grow up, dude!! This whole thing about McCann being too fat is getting old, and I think it’s time to move on from that.

Better off with Salty? Yeah, sure.

By Saltywoody

January 23, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Ohhh, and we also need to talk about how far that $2 milllion is going towards center field. Not only do we get Mark Kotsay who, if he stays healthy, will be a great guy on the field AND in the clubhouse.

But we get JAMIE KOTSAY who might just be worth the $2 million by herself. Maybe she’s been talked about here already and I glossed over it. But, holy smokes. She and Mrs. Glavine are worth their husbands’ salaries on their own.

By Steve McP

January 23, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

N8 - Elton John and Bernie Taupin wrote almost his entire catalogue - in fact apart from duets with John Lennon and George Michael I don’t recall Elton doing a cover of anyone’s music, as for Meatloaf, his success came in joint collaborations with Jim Steinman, and the albums were all original pieces.

Not all like the covering of songs that occurs in AI - the show looks only for a vocalist and is not at all about musical skill and gives no credit for musicians.

Interestingly the UK version had an opera singing phone salesman who was a huge hit, he looked like a dork but won everyone over - I will try to attach the link, it’s worth a view.

Singer

By Steve McP

January 23, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

That shoud be Jim Steinman of course

By Shaun

January 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Going back to the RBI discussion some of us had last week, here is an excellent discussion on Jim Rice’s HOF candidacy and related to the topic of RBI:

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/01/thesearchfor.php

Here are a couple of paragraphs that help to point out that RBI is not a reliable indicator of greatness. This even surprised me:

If RBI is an indicator of greatness, why is it that only nine leaders (covering 11 seasons) from 1950 to 1994 (chosen to accommodate eligible candidates) have been inducted into the Hall of Fame? Sure, Jim Rice led the AL in RBI twice. But so did Al Rosen, Jackie Jensen, Roger Maris, and Cecil Cooper (as well as Vern Stephens if we also include 1949). Moreover, Cecil Fielder and Albert Belle each led the league three times. None of these players are in the Hall of Fame. In fact, other than Maris, not a single one of these players ever received even 10% of the vote. Cooper failed to get any votes at all, while Fielder was named on just one ballot.

The most damning evidence against Rice in the case of RBI is the fact that Eddie Murray is the only player who ever led the league during Rice’s 14 full seasons and was later elected to the Hall of Fame. George Scott, Lee May, Larry Hisle, Don Baylor, Hal McRae, Tony Armas, Don Mattingly, Joe Carter, George Bell, Jose Canseco, and Cooper all led the league in RBI and only Donnie Baseball ever picked up 5% or more of the vote.

By DAP

January 23, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

N8 ditto on your 3:5somthing post. ive been down that road of trying to “make it” as well, and im kinda still on that road… but yeah, many of the things you said ive often wondered myself.

By Braveheart

January 23, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Instead, it’s like my generation has taken a step or four backwards. We’re less inventive than ever. We have less imagination than any generation previous. Almost everything we consume, from music to television, is recycled and unoriginal. To find truly great and inspiring materials nowadays, we have to dig deeper than ever.

Saltywoody I mostly agree with your views on American Idol but I completely disagree with this paragraph.

Look at all the new technology, look at the sabermetric revolution, and so on. And I don’t think you have to dig anywhere near as deep these days with the Internet. Unless you were a music nut like DOB and Lew apparently were back in the day, where were you gonna find out about these acts that weren’t really being played on the radio? In specialty magazines? Today, you can spend a good hour on the Internet and find what had been previously impossible to find just a few decades ago.

And you most likely will find like minded nuts who love that kind of music as passionately as you do and you can chat and blog with them and find out about upcoming concerts or what the best songs are and who the up and coming obscure artists are. A few decades ago what would you really have done if you were some high school kid stuck in some remote town with a bunch of dorks who loved disco or pop rock or the freaking Carpenters?

Just look at Bill James for example. When he was putting his sabermetric theories out in the 80s, he was mostly ignored except for a small fanatic base. But the internet came, and there was an explosion of interest in his previously ignored work.

Disco was widly popular at one time. Madonna, the Black Eyed Peas, and American Idol are nothing more than extensions of disco despite people thinking disco died years ago. People were not any deeper then than they are now. The hardcore nuts found what they were looking for.

Elvis couldn’t shake his pelvis on Ed Sullivan. Jim Morrison couldn’t say much higher on Ed Sullivan. Songs were mostly restricted to 2, 3 minutes at the most - even classic rock songs had to be heavily edited down to get any airplay.

Don’t let the old folks fool ya. They didn’t have it any better. That Sonny and Cher show didn’t look much deeper than American Idol. It was Nick and Jessica looking to be honest with ya.

I will say this though: It is much harder to write a hit song or make a hit movie than it is to write a pretty song or make a respected low budget movie. Kinda like winning the World Series. It’s much easier to be Billy Beane or Terry Ryan than it is to be John Scheurholz or Omar Minaya.

That’s why I’ll give Theo Epstein more props than any of them. Young Theo is making prettier music than all of them. (pretty darn good and imaginative for OUR generation). And yeah, Theo’s label is giving him more money but since when is that something to be ashamed of? The name of the game is making money, making hit records, making hit movies, and winning the World Series. Billy Beane can keep portraying himself as the struggling, starving artist while Cashman/Steinbrenner make the Michael Bay high budget pics that bomb at the box office, Theo just keeps making the hits.

Somebody said to me, “But the Beatles were anti-materialistic.” That’s a huge myth. John and I literally used to sit down and say, “Now, let’s write a swimming pool.” — Paul McCartney

By mp

January 23, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

the new drive-by truckers is a classic. they’re the real deal.

but, seriously, have you ever watched hannah montana? the girl is sassy, and is hugely popular for a reason.

By jed

January 23, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Regarding N8’s 3:54 post:

“But are you a musician? Do you play an instrument, and if so, have you ever tried to play in a band, or even further than that, recorded any of your own music, and tried to not only sell it at gigs, but go through the long road of “shopping” it to recording studios while spending umpteen hundreds of dollars sending them to ANY and EVERY connection you can find, as to try and “make it”??”

I meet all your criteria, N8, and I think your post is total b******. Also think it’s lame and bullying of you try to and marginalize nonmusicians’ views on music just because they dont play an instrument. And all of this to support American Idol?

That’s kind of scary, actually. You’re like a pinhead on steroids.

By jed

January 23, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

And what exactly do you mean by “shopping [your music] to recording studios”? That makes no sense. You dont have to sell a studio on the prospect of recording your music. Did you mean shopping it to record labels? If so, that may well have been your trouble right there.

By N8

January 23, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Jed

“And all of this to support American Idol?”

You’re missing the point, if you think the initial rant was to purely “stick up” for american idol. It wasn’t.

I stated to DOB, that I had been holding it in for a while the way he (and many others), are quick to use the word “suck” when referring to any music.

As for the record “studio/label” question. No. It’s not a mistake. In the upper midwest, many of the independent “labels” own there own studios. Thus you need to “sell” yourself to those labels.

Only a complete moron would attempt to solicit any of the Big Boys, when shopping your demo. If you don’t know somebody that can DIRECTLY put it in the hand of who needs to listen to it, or have them drag that person to see you live….good luck.

Do you know how may THOUSANDS of demos show up in the mail daily at some of these places? The place they get “put” is called the dumpster.

I’d love to tell you stories of going to Paisley Park and “running into Prince” in the parking lot, and saying…..Hey dude…While you’re hear, you wanna give my demo a listen? Those people are called stockers and usually end up with mug-shots, not “a” shot.

For one, most labels can’t “trust” where and who the tapes are coming from. So if you can’t get your booking agent to get you a “show case”, you’re pretty much SOL.

“Also think it’s lame and bullying of you try to and marginalize nonmusicians’ views on music just because they dont play an instrument. “

Again. You missed the point of the post that was DIRECTED at DOB. He often (to me, and others) has used the “I’m in the clubhouse and have been around the game” routine (and rightfully so), when essentially telling us that we don’t know what we’re talking about, when being JUDGMENTAL on a decision or policy, mostly when discussing Bobby.

Again, the point of my using the “musician status” angle to “bully” him or anybody, wasn’t to judge ones opinion.

It saddens me that I typed that much, and all you got out of it, was that I am judgmental. What I’m trying to do is stick up for the musicians that work their AZZ off at their craft, their art, and for many people, their soul, only to have a guy say “That sucks”.

It’s not right, and if you are the musician that you say you are, you not only will appreciate my outlook, but agree with it. Otherwise, I’ll assume you are one of those musicians that stands in the back of the club and mocks whoever is on stage, leaning over to your buddy and whispering and giggling every 10 seconds. Believe me. I’ve been there, done that…….when I was 17.

Would you walk into an art gallery and say…..Man, that painting SUCKS!?

This WHOLE rant has been about the lack of respect of using the word SUCK. Nothing more. Nothing less.

As for the American Idol crap? I could care less who likes it, hates it, watches every episode, has NEVER seen an episode, thinks Seacrest is the devil, thinks Paula Abdul has no business “judging” anybody, thinks Randy Jackson is Michael’s brother…..whatever.

It just fueled me opening my mouth. If you think it was all about American Idol, you’re wasting your keystrokes debating that show with me.

However, if you wanna talk about the other stuff, I’ll gladly chime in back and forth with you.

By N8

January 24, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Jed

I’ve been in 3 bands that have recorded in way shape or form.

The first band we recorded (at our cost), basically doing what they called a “demo package”. What it consisted of, was getting the 3rd or 4th best engineer at the studio (in other words…the coffee boy), from about 10:00 PM until 6:00 AM.

Those “hours” were at a discount, because it was NOT with the local guru, and obviously not during local business hours (the studio pretty much did all of the local radio commercials in the region).

If I recall, it was about 900 bucks for those 8 hours which turned into 6 hours after all the gear was set up, and everything was ready to go.

We paid for 2 nights. Recorded EVERYTHING live (meaning we played all parts at the same time), and then basically did a few vocal, and guitar overdubs.

I was 19 at the time, literally had no money, none of us did for the project. We never packaged or sold it. Ironically the drummer of that band, ended up working at that studio many years later and got his hands on the masters and for a Christmas gift to all of us did some “touch up work” on the 5 tracks and gave us each a better copy of them than we already had.

The next band, used the same studio. We were gigging more, so had money to put in. We spent about 3500 bucks in recording time, and about 2500 in printing and packaging 1000 CD’s from one of these fly by night mail order companies.

We sold most of them, but gave more away than we sold. When it was all said and done, we probably broke even on it (T-shirts make more money in my region).

The last band that I’ve been with for about 2 years, has been writing and recording at the drummers house. The cost that he has into all the gear (computer, software, condenser mic for vocals, the whole nine yards, cost him less than we spent on that first demo years ago.

The room his crap is set up in, obviously don’t sound as good as the booths in the studios, but it works none the less.

Many of the agents/studios/labels in this area work in unison with each other. You sign on to be booked by them (many acts do ONLY that), as an “insider” you can get discounted time at the studios. If you’re not signed with them for booking purposes, you pay full price for the studio time.

The really good acts that they KNOW they can make money on, they will “front” the money for the album (meaning NOTHING to them, because all they are giving away is time), then if it comes out the way THEY want it to, they will also pay for packaging, and go from there.

So while, it’s NOT a major record deal, it operates in the same fashion, the artist puts little to nothing up front, however if they’ve got their claws into you (meaning your signed for the booking and you did the record on their tab), and a major label wants you for some reason, their gonna make their dough by having the label buy out the deal.

Of course in this area that doesn’t happen too often. They use the local bands for “cheap” commissions on discs. The bands use them to get the CD’s out at no out of pocket cost, and EVERYBODY involved crosses their fingers that the right person sees you at the right time.

That hasn’t changed for decades, I imagine.

I’ve long ago given up on the dream of “making it”, yet continue to write, record and gig in mostly local cover bands. It’s fun. What can I say.

Fortunately, I’m a better photographer, than I am a guitar player. LOL!

By N8

January 24, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

“I’d love to tell you stories of going to Paisley Park and “running into Prince” in the parking lot, and saying…..Hey dude…While you’re hear, you wanna give my demo a listen? Those people are called stockers and usually end up with mug-shots, not “a” shot.”

Apparently, when you type 2000 word essays without spell check, things go badly. Obviously I meant “here”, and “stalker”, not to be confused with Kevin Stocker. :-)

Sorry for boring everybody with my “Behind the music”.

Just don’t like being called a bullsh!ter when, there’s nothing BS about what I said.

Disagree if you may, but…..

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

January 24, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

Man in Black bloggers, put the 2-DVD set “The Best of the Johnny Cash TV Show” at the top of your must-buy list. It offers hours of mesmerizing musical entertainment. And it’s quite a nostalgia rush for those of us who are old enough to remember the show.

See Dylan looking impossibly young again! See Neil Young before he became Real Old! See Eric Clapton jam back in his Derek and the Dominoes days! See great artists who are no longer with us (JC included) when they were in their primes!

Boy, that was a long time ago.

I’m gonna go watch Disc 2 now.

By uga-brave

January 24, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

there are a couple of times when the word “sucks” actually conveys the right meaning. just a few,

Eric greggs strike zone. lonnie smith’s base running gaff in game 7. mark wohlers slider to leyritz. the 1994 baseball strike. scott boras. last but not least, MLB’S handling of the whole steriod mess.

By Bubdylan

January 24, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

I freaking LOVE “Wonderful Remark.” One of the many spots where Van takes a phrase that doesn’t seem lyrical on the surface and makes it sound so natural. Not unlike “I was flabbergasted by the headlines” from “Rough God Goes Riding.” Nice blog, as per usual.

By Nolie

January 24, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

How do you - and everyone else - feel about the Oscar nominations? I, for one, am delighted with the nods to “Michael Clayton” - my runaway choice for Best Picture. Clooney, Wilkenson and Swinton (rolls off the tongue like Tinker, Evers and Chance) all were amazing. Clooney probably doesn’t have a chance to win Best Actor; the others have a very good shot for Supporting Actor and Actress, respectively. I’d love to get others’ thoughts. Thanks.

I loved Michael Clayton. It kinda reminded me of some of those ’70s political thrillers like The Parallax View. However I don’t think it was quite in the same class as No Country For Old Men or There Will Be Blood

By Nolie

January 24, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

Anybody alive, when beatle-mania hit, feel free to answer.N8

didn’t like them at all. too precious. Gimme the Stones and The Yardbirds. Fact is I never really cottoned to the Beatles though there are a coupla songs that are ok

By Metropolitan Man

January 24, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

Heres your 5th starter. Better snag him before Pitts makes him an ace:

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Oft-injured pitcher Jaret Wright and the Pittsburgh Pirates agreed on a minor league contract Wednesday with an invitation to spring training.

Wright, a 15-game winner for Atlanta in 2004, had a 6.97 ERA while losing all three games he started for Baltimore last season. The right-hander pitched only in rehabilitation games after that because of a sore shoulder, but did not undergo surgery.

The 32-year-old Wright is 68-60 with a 5.09 ERA while pitching for the Indians, Padres, Braves, Yankees and Orioles since 1997. He started Game 7 of the 1997 World Series for Cleveland.

He cant be any worse than Hampton….or Galvine for that matter.

By Serbok

January 24, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

LOL

By the way, I’m gonna pretend I never saw, in any way, the words Beatles and Backstreet Boys in the same sentence or thought earlier in a comment.

Touche!

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 24, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this

uga-brave , Lonnie Smith getting deeked by Knoblauch in 91 and leaving the Braves sixty feet short of a World Championship still stings to this day. Of course , it wasn’t all his fault. Otis Nixon was suspended and it changed the Braves offense in the playoffs.

Lonnie was standing on third base with nobody out in a tie game. Tom Kelly brought his infield in and took the bunt away , leaving the Braves at the mercy of Jack Morris and the Braves simply failed to execute.

Then witnessing Mark Wohlers eighth inning meltdown in game four of the 96 World Series after Bobby Cox inexplicably took Mike Bielecki out of the game still leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

If not for that critical mistake , the Braves would have been up three games to one and the series would have been all but over.

We now know about the Twins less than honest manipulation of the indoor playing conditions at the Metrodome.

The Yankees 1999 steroid juiced team that unfairly swept the Braves from that WS.

All in all , it hurts. But , it’s water under the bridge. We still have the 95 World Championship trophy , the five N.L. championships and of course the unprecedented fourteen straight division streak from 1991-2005.

Which leaves me really looking forward to this season. The 2008 squad is deep , talented and built to withstand the rigors of the 162 game marathon schedule.

The Braves have quality and depth in both the rotation and bullpen. They have an excellent defense and a more than adequate offense.

I have been predicting playoffs ever since the Tom Glavine signing and am even more sure of this right now since the additional moves that Frank Wren has made.

Three more weeks and the arse kicking begins. :>)

By Metropolitan Man

January 24, 2008 4:15 AM | Link to this

Once written off as an extreme long shot in the long-running Johan Santana drama, the Mets may actually be the favorite now. At the very least, there are indications now that they are engaging in more regular dialogue with the Twins in recent days than either the Red Sox or Yankees. And Mets general manager Omar Minaya, who loves a big deal but hasn’t made one since the winter before last, has told some people in the business, “We have a shot.”

Minaya declined to comment when I reached him on Tuesday. But there are some definite signs that the Twins may be warming to the idea of taking a package of projects and prospects with high ceilings while not insisting on much in the way of major-league help. Which, if true, would give the Mets a real shot.

When Minnesota began shopping Santana in early December, I was told the Twins would have to get Jose Reyes back in a Mets deal, a non-starter for the Mets who understandably consider Reyes a cornerstone player and aren’t about to deal him for a pitcher — even a great pitcher — who’s a year away from free agency and would require an extension at $22-to-$25 million. But in recent weeks I was told that there was indeed a Mets deal to be made, even without Reyes or David Wright or someone of that ilk. That the Twins and Mets continue to talk seems to support that assertion.

Entire link:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/23/scoop.Jan23/index.html

I’m with Wright, lets go with what we have. Let the guys who caused the choke own up to it and make things right.

By jed

January 24, 2008 4:45 AM | Link to this

N8—

Some music does indeed suck. As does your “music is a subjective experience” theory.

By your line of reasoning, there’s no discernible difference in the quality of Bach and Air Supply. Bob Dylan’s “Highway 61 Revisited” is, in your view, no better than an Ace Frehley album.

Would you really like to support such a premise?

By jon

January 24, 2008 6:24 AM | Link to this

DOB, if you were manager, who is the leading candidate to pitch the 7th inning out of the bullpen????

By 22oz

January 24, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Good bit on XM this morning about Francoeur, they had read the AJC column and were poking fun at Jeff and Catie, saying his life was over if he already was getting bossed around and hearing all the cliches’ involving married life. They were predicting a career year from Jeff since he’d be leaving to get to the ballpark at 1pm everyday! They also picked the Mets as a team to fall flat on their face this year, with or without Santana, but thats just their opinion. I like it though!

By DAP

January 24, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

saltywoody having vocal talent alone doesnt mean a person isnt talented at all.

its kinda proves N8’s point about everyone having different tastes. every one also has differnt things they appreciate as talent. i dont like all of the american idol winners, but all of them can sing well enough to be considered unique, because not many people can sing like they can.

im like you, i perfer musicians who write their own music and play their own instruments, but that doesnt mean someone who just has an amazong voice isnt talented. also, just because they dont play their own instruments during the show doesnt mean they cant play. many of them do play instruments as well.

By richbrave

January 24, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

BROTHER DAVE:

Another pearl Dave. A post to your closing comment on this blog. Wasn’t it someone’s observation that doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result was akin to insanity? In this case are we supposed to assume human nature is the exception to the rule?

By Salty

January 24, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

Stinks, sucks, lame, a pile of crap. Wow, what a discussion of late. Unless the intent is to mold the blog into a mine of like-minded thinkers, and DO’B’s never given that indication, why not just say, “personally, I don’t like it”, and move on?

By Salty

January 24, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

jed Your 4:45…how did you come to that conclusion from all that N8 posted? Personally, that wasn’t my take away at all.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

saltywoody American Idol is that standing up and rocking out without the initial work put in behind the scenes.

a singing voice is like any other instrument. you have to practice and work on it alot before its ready. dont make the mistake of thinking the singers on american idol havent worked very hard to be there.

i agree with you about our generation taking some steps backwards as far as creativity. all we can do is buck the trend, and hope it turns around.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

SteveMcP the show looks only for a vocalist and is not at all about musical skill and gives no credit for musicians.

singers ARE musicians.

By N8

January 24, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Jed

“By your line of reasoning, there’s no discernible difference in the quality of Bach and Air Supply. Bob Dylan’s “Highway 61 Revisited” is, in your view, no better than an Ace Frehley album.”

I find it amusing. You still don’t get it, do you?

Even the above statement, where you tried to give a hypothetical example, all you’ve done is merely state your opinion.

Period.

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

*By Salty

January 24, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

Stinks, sucks, lame, a pile of crap. Wow, what a discussion of late. Unless the intent is to mold the blog into a mine of like-minded thinkers, and DO’B’s never given that indication, why not just say, “personally, I don’t like it”, and move on?*

Exactly why I left the blog… Out of 300 posts, 250 are of some personal argument. Just get the guy’s email or IM and take the personal jabs off the public forum. I stopped posting a couple of months ago because most of the debate simply turned to dispute and dissention. Next thing you know, somebody hurls a cruise missile then a whole flock of ICBMs are raining down on us all. It’s the end of the world as we know it. And with just a couple of weeks before spring training, too. But, I digress…

Oh, and hello again, DOB…

By Random (QNS, FFF, TTB)

January 24, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

DOB:

I’m betting that Daniel Gibson was serious, but just a little confused.

He was probably thinking of Kim Possible, who IS awesome.

By Shaun

January 24, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008), you want to narrow that series down to one play when five of its games were decided by a single run, four games decided in the final at-bat and three extra-inning games? Yes, you can point to that one play…and about a million other things. I’m sure every player that appeared in that series for the Braves continues to this day to think “what if I had just done this differently or that differently.”

You mentioned the Otis Nixon suspension, what if Hrbek’s move isn’t allowed, if Juan Berenguer isn’t injured, if Schuerholz makes just one more minor move, if Kirby Puckett doesn’t make a catch no human should make…

By DAP

January 24, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

by the way, i dont mind saying something sucks, or having someone else say it…to me, its understood that its their opinion, which they have a right to. obviously its rude to say if your evaluating someone’s art with them standing right there and talking to someone who really really likes it, but whatever.

By Buck Naked

January 24, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

I always thought Betty Rubble was pretty hot.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 24, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

MetMan: *Heres your 5th starter. Better snag him before Pitts makes him an ace:

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Oft-injured pitcher Jaret Wright…*

Dude, we’ve got 8-9 pitchers for our 5-man starting rotation. Remind us who your 5th starter is?

By Buck Naked

January 24, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

MetMan: I hear that elephant from the LooneyTunes cartoon is available as a 5th starter. And he plays for peanuts!

By ncscoots

January 24, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

VOR, man, you gotta come here more often. The contributions of guys such as MBATL, you, and some of the other MIAs, keep some of the very trash you deplore from occurring. Preventive blogging, if you will, LOL.

Besides, I miss your always-well-“reasoned” posts. :-)

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Thanks, nscoots… very kind words indeed.

By Dick Enberg

January 24, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Exactly why I left the blog… Out of 300 posts, 250 are of some personal argument.

Oh My…

By Random (QNS, FFF, TTB)

January 24, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Shaun—

Your link didn’t work. Maybe this one will.

You’re right — good discussion. Thanks.

By Beavis

January 24, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Are not!

By jb

January 24, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Long posts about American Idol. This is exactly why we have to put up with it. Whether we like it or not, people want to talk about it. It’s losing its luster. Where is last year’s winner on the charts? I don’t watch the show. I am too turned off by the fact that some singers were turned away from the start because they were “too polished.” The Prince protege Tamar was one who never appeared on the show because she was “too polished.” The producers of the show only let us see the ones they want us to see. American’s really don’t pick their “idol,” the producers do. It’s kind of like voting for a President, we can vote, but the Candidates are practically picked for us ahead of time and the electoral college ultimately has the say so. As American’s, we are too easily dooped. I do agree singing is an art, but you can go to many church choirs and find a great singing voice. The problem is they may not look good on video, just ask C.C music factory’s Martha Washington.

By Butthead

January 24, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Is too!

By Beavis

January 24, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Are not!

By Butthead

January 24, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Is too!

By cityofdecatur

January 24, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

N8 u may not have meant to be pompous but you sure came off as such. Can’t wait for Pitchers and Catcher to report and we can start bloggin’ mainly baseball. Enjoy the music (i don’t particularily enjoy the movie discussions but i do know how to scroll past) talk as it’s got me to look and listen to music i would not have been exposed to. Pop culture (music movies t v )is marketed to the lowest common denominator. PS N8 you part of the speach police on the word SUCk

By Alan

January 24, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Coach, you really should try to forget the past - as Mark McGwire has suggested so eloquently. Still, I can’t resist commenting. You said if the Braves won Game 4 of the ‘96 WS, the Series would have been “all but over” because they’d have had a 3-1 lead. Hold on. That same year in the NLCS immediately preceding the WS, the Braves came back from a 3-1 deficit to obliterate the Cardinals. It ain’t over ‘til it’s over.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

MetMan, seriously: You could criticize the Braves for missing the postseason for two years, for not re-signing Andruw, etc, but to insinuate that they’re desperate for a fifth starter? This from a Mets fan? I mean, are you even keeping up with baseball’s offseason dealings and the stories/questions that teams have? Even giving it a cursory glance now and then? Because your point is so completely from another offseason that I’m wondering where you’re getting your info.

My man, the Mets have some serious, and I mean serious, questions about their starting rotation. Maybe they’ll get Santana. If they do, that’d obviously make a very big difference. But even then, they’d have major questions in terms of depth.

This is not even in the Braves’ top three issues, not this winter. Good point by you — just the wrong year to make it.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

N8,

Interesting responses to your music and AI posts. I tend to agree with you on the “sucks” part. I have been involved in the music “biz” a bit myself and understand your perspective.I have played a bit and still mess around a little.

I have also tried to manage bands, book bands and have owned a couple bars that booked live shows.

I am not an AI fan mainly because I really don’t like that kind of singing. Give me Joe Strummer or Mick Jagger over ANY of the AI competitors and I will be happy.

As you say that is my personal opinion and it really means nothing to anyone else.

You are very correct about Kip Winger and some of the other members of 80’s hair band, they are and were talented guys that were playing the music they thought would get them signed and paid. Nothing wrong with that.

I personally despise the guitar playing of Edward Van Halen. I think his multi non-melodic playing including his tapping created an entire era of guitar gun slingers that could play fast, but had no soul at all. I know Eddie is talented but I still don’t like his style or his playing.

It would be easy to say Van Halen sucks, but I agree with you a better way to put it is I don’t LIKE Van Halen.

Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the subject.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Ned, great point at 4:45 a.m. (and I like a person who makes great points at 4:45 a.m.)

By the way, the Whigs show at the Earl is SOLD OUT (and I didn’t get tickets, thanks to someone who wanted to wait and decide whether she wanted to go; but I’ll try not bring that point up anywhere but here.)

By TennesseePaul

January 24, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB: So, Greenwoods music borrowed more heavily from other composers than I originally thought… I was hearing Ennio Morricone, but it looks like it was others. What reminded me of Ennio from Greenwood was the delievery, or spacing of the music. The way he laid it out on top of the visuals. Looks like he borrowed from others as well.

It looked like a glaring snub when Jonny Greenwood’s music for “There Will Be Blood” wasn’t among the five Academy Award nominees for best original score.

Daniel Day-Lewis gives a towering performance as an oilman in “There Will Be Blood.” Turns out it wasn’t eligible — because it wasn’t entirely original.

Much of the searing music from the Radiohead guitarist had appeared elsewhere previously, said Charles Bernstein, chairman of the music branch of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, which chooses the nominees.

Some of the score came from a performance Greenwood had done for the BBC, titled “Popcorn Superhet Receiver.” Some of it came from Estonian composer Arvo Part; still other parts came from a Brahms violin concerto.
—Associated Press

By Lew

January 24, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Daybed-I’m with you, Dude. I’m more inclined to think the Mets will end up with Jared Wright. There’s no way the Braves would sign him, nor do they even vaguely need him. As usual, MetroDude’s septic tank runneth over.

By StingerSplash

January 24, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

what will be higher — beer prices at Turner Field or the St. Louis Cardinals starting rotation’s cumulative earned run average? I think I just channeled my inner Jeff Schultz. I will now gouge my eyes out. DOB, consider this — other than Kelly what’shername, what American Idol finalist, not even a winner, but a finalist, has sold anything remotely close to the number of records total to qualify for a gold record? That show’s not about the winners, it’s about the losers. In. Oh. So. Many. Ways. And then there is greatness on TV, like when AMC decides to show “Cool Hand Luke” as I’m trying to get ready to go to work.

By kdbanks

January 24, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

DOB or anyone else -

Anyone planning on going to the Manchester Orchestra show Friday night? I can’t make it as I’m going to see Tom Rhodes at the Punchline, but I would love to hear how the show is.

If anyone goes, please post about it.

KDB

By N8

January 24, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Flange1

“I personally despise the guitar playing of Edward Van Halen…I know Eddie is talented but I still don’t like his style or his playing….It would be easy to say Van Halen sucks, but I agree with you a better way to put it is I don’t LIKE Van Halen.”

First off, I too appreciate you “appreciating” my view. Second of all, you nailed it on the head.

I personally don’t agree with you, yet I’ve talked to many who DO agree with you. That’s the magic of it all.

Everybody is moved by different music for different reasons.

Nothing wrong with that. It’s clear that the only people that think I’m being pompous on this subject are the ones that are pompous enough to think the music THEY LIKE, is “better” than the music you may like.

I hope everybody sees the hypocrocy in that.

Props to you for owning a bar where (even if in the past), where having live entertainment is wanted. They’re becoming an endangered species, in the upper mid-west.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

N8, unless you want to go back and find some recent instances where I used the term “suck,” please stop saying that I’ve used it to describe music or anything else. Because I haven’t. Got it? Have not used it.

Do I care if others do? No. I’m only offended by a few words, and that’s sure not one of them. Some are too easily offended, but that’s another discussion I’m not going to get into.

I don’t use it, because the paper would ask me not to if I started using it with any frequency on the blog, I’m sure. We can’t use it at all in the newspaper, unless it’s a direct quote, and even then it’s sometimes changed.

Again, don’t say I’m using a word that I’m not. I might have used it once in the past year on this blog, though i can’t recall the specific instance, if I did. I’ve used “stink” many times, and will continue to do so.

And you can write 1,000-word essays or arguments on the subject until the cows (or diminshing ratings) come home, but it’s not gonna change my opinion: American Idol, and 98 percent (or so) of the talent that comes out of that show, stinks. Awful. Pablum.

Just like most of what occupies the top of the Top 40 chart. Sorry if that offends you, but it’s my opinion. I pay no mind to record sales or box office figures. Sometimes, but not often, one of my favorites will be a big seller (U2 comes to mind). Other times, most times, it will not.

I really don’t care. I like what I like. And I hate the soul-less garbage that comes out of that show. And I honestly never watch the show, but am exposed to what are supposedly its best acts, the ones that win, because they show up everywhere, truly ubiquitous, for the year or so after they’ve won on that show, as labels promote them as if they are extremely talented “discovered” artists, and newspapers and magazines do cover stories on them. It’s insipid and aggravating. But hey, it’s what a lot of people like for their entertainment. And that’s fine.

Most of those folks would opine that the stuff I like is garbage. Different tastes.

By FJR

January 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Nice to see a shoutout to the dead confederate boys. I grew up with these guys in augusta, back when they were the redbelly band (not so long ago) and hardy’s older brother dawson was the singer (a long time ago). Jason Scarborough is an immensely talented drummer. Its been awesome to see Hardy turn into such a ridiculously talented songwriter. Saw them with the whigs over winter break at the sould bar in augusta, great show although the sound there sucks (but its made up for by the small bar atmosphere).

N8, I tend to agree with you to a point. Too many people take their own personal tastes, compare musicians to that, and to the degree that they don’t align is the degree that they are viewed to suck.

For instance, I don’t particularly care for Christina Aguilera and I love the band Jet. However, I spent a good deal of time around the music business and I recognize that Christina is more talented than the members of Jet. I don’t like it all that much, but geenie in a bottle is a genius song. I love it, but Be My Girl is pretty much a ripoff and likely didn’t take a ton of talent to pull off.

However, I disagree with you about your point of “if you are a musician, you shouldn’t judge.” Musicians are just like me and DOB, they just are able to play an instrument. Many are much more closeminded and say people suck simply based on taste than DOB ever thought about being. My best friend is a ridiculously good guitarist, however he loves The Darkness and thinks that Of Montreal sucks.

Music isn’t all that subjective in a lot of ways, there are people who do legitimately suck, they can’t sing (most of the popstar dont fall into this category though, contrary to popular myth, almost all the huge popstar are actually fantastic singers, its too expensive, even these days, to mess with somebody who can’t sing, unless they were already a celebrity to begin with, the labels aren’t going to pick unknowns who cant sing just because they look a certain way). However, if you actually suck at everything musical, you likely aren’t going to make it at all. There are too many people out there who are just as good looking who actually don’t suck to have to spend millions in the studio covering up the fact that you suck. So when people today say somebody sucks, they really usually just mean that “this person’s style deviates from the style I prefer and isn’t SOOOOOOO talented that it makes up the difference.

By N8

January 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

flange1

I am confused though. How could somebody with the word flange in their moniker, despise EDV’s playing?

LOL!

Just giving you grief.

By Zac

January 24, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave, any word on what Leo Mazzone is gonna be doing this upcoming season? Amazing how someone that was once mentioned as a hall of fame caliber pitching coach, can’t even find a job 2 years later.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I’m not really sure why a Denver newspaper wrote that Tulowitzki’s new six-year, $31 mill deal eclipsed Cleveland CF Grady Sizemore’s $23.45 mill deal as the largest ever for a player with under two years’ experience, other than the paper simply overlooked Brian McCann’s deal.

Last spring training, McCann signed a six-year deal worth a minimum of $26.8 mill. He had fewer than two years’ experience at the time, and that was the largest contract for a player with so little major league service — until Tulowitzki’s deal.

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

If I may elbow my way into the discussion ever so deftly…

I have been in and around the music business for 25 or so years on many levels and to varying degrees of success. (Defining musical success could open up a whole big ol’ can in and of itself…) I do not currently make my living as a musician, but I still play on a much smaller, more local and specific scene. In much the same way that my passion for Los Bravos keeps me eyes on the baseball scene, my passion for music keeps my eyes on that scene as well.

As a youngster, I would have argued you down for hours as to who was talented and who “sucked”. As a grizzled veteran, I have come to appreciate and respect most, read most, music and musicians. What is real music to you or to me, not so much for somebody else. We are all products of our environment and age. I could listen for hours to Grand Funk Railroad’s 1970 Live Album, but that would make most of you cringe. By the same token, I can watch AI without either passing out or throwing up. It’s all a matter of personal preference, however wide or narrow. And there’s nothing wrong with either wide or narrow. Beauty really is in the eye, or ear, of the beholder. And some be holdin’ more than others…

By Lew

January 24, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

There is a difference between DOB’s Wurlitzer portraits and everyone else’s. His are portraits of musicians, as opposed to Braves’ players. When I met him in Boston, he wondered why I had awarded them to him. What I told him was something I truly believe-It’s all about the music and he gets it.

This is quite true. He does get it. It has nothing whatsoever with what type of music he listens to. He’s heavily into older country-the legends like Hank Williams, Sr.. He does not care for the Hair Bands and Prog Rock from the 70’s and 80’s. I, on the other hand, could care less if I ever heard Hank Sr., I really like some of the Hair Bands and grew up with Prog Rock-even got to talk to Keith Emerson.

The point is that DOB, Myself, Nathan (and many others here) get it. It’s all about the music. What would life be without it? Could life possibly be as enjoyable without our tunes to see us through the hard times (in the Immortal words of Foghat- When I was stone blue, Rock and Roll sure helped me through)? Could we celebrate the good times without more music?

No, it doesn’t much matter if you like Johnny Cash, The Beatles or Madonna. It’s all about the music. Always has been and always will be. And THAT is how it should be.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

By the way, Tulowitzki has a seventh-year option at $15 mill in 2014, and McCann a seventh-year option at $12 mill in 2013 (with a $500,000 buyout).

By Anders

January 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

*DOB

Maybe they’ll get Santana. If they do, that’d obviously make a very big difference. But even then, they’d have major questions in terms of depth

Glad to see you coming around to the possiblity I outlined back around Thanksgiving. Maybe you can convince Big Lew that it’s not a mortal impossibility for this to happen? Although he seems more bent on convincing all that if it wasn’t for Chippers injuries the last few years David Wright would playing in the Witness Protection Plan somewhere in Arizona completely unnoticed. ooookaaay. Anyway, it’s just a matter of time before Santana’s agent demands that the Twins trade him soon or he won’t waive his no trade. Santana won’t want to risk injury or a sub par performance in 2008 getting in the way of the montsrous contract he now has coming. No way next years price for him is much higher, if at all. At any rate the risk/reward is not in his favor to wait. At what point does Santana feel slighted by the Yanks and Red Sox who both have gone from a high stakes chess match to the point of appearing almost disinterested? Can’t be feeding his ego too much. As for the Mets depth I’ll take my chances with two 15 game winners (Perez and Maine) and Santana to start my rotation. I’ll be happy to cobble together a 4th and 5th guy with that three on top.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

anybody like mute math? im listening to the reset EP right now. good band.

i almost hope hampton doenst pitch this season. i really am excited to see this jurrjens kid, and i know he wont beat james as the 5th starter. my bet is he will pitch in AAA, but im excited to see this kid pitch in a braves uni. if hampton does come back, i just hope he pitches real well, so i dont wish the whole time it was jurrjens instead.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

N8,

Great point, I get that all the time! When I started on eBay I needed a name and I had just bought an ADA flanger so a friend said why not be flangebox? SO from there I have been Flangebox or Flange1.

I do like EVH’s equipment though, the 5150 is a really decent amp and the Ernie Ball guitars were and are incredible. I even don’t hate the Peavey guitars and I am not a fan of Hartley Peavey AT ALL.

The new Fender made Frankenstein’s are also pretty cool, but not being a Floyd fan (I love Bigsbies) I doubt I will ever get one.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

FJR, that would’ve been a great show to see. I’m thinking of going and trying to scalp a ticket to Whigs show, because I really have a feeling they’re not going to be playing such small venues for too much longer.

By the way, agree with you on Aguilera — don’t like her music, but she can flat-out sing. And she sat in the row behind me in first-class on a flight once, and I tell you what — not bad. To say the least.

(We were in first class, but I was just using an upgrade from schlepping around the country so much on Delta; I’m quite sure she paid full price for her ticket.)

By flange1

January 24, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DAP,

I agree to a certain extent with your 12:29 post. I too want to see JJJ in the rotation. I would like to also have Hampton in the rotation and Chuckie on the team.

I know it is early and we need to see performance, but I would like to have both Bennett and Chuckie in the pen as long relievers and spot starters. Let them both learn from Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz and then move into the rotation NEXT (2009) season.

I know people are going to jump on the Chuckie to the pen, but use him in situations where he starts an inning and will go a couple of innings not to be brought in after the inning has started.

By FJR

January 24, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I guess part of it comes out of what you mean by “stink”. If it means that you just don’t think that the music they put out is “good”, that is one thing, and is totally subjective. If it means that you think they are devoid of musical talent, that’s quite another and much much less subjective.

I’ll start this by saying that I LOVE the whigs, their last album was one of my favorite debut albums of the last 10 years. However, I’d be an idiot to say that everybody who makes it to the live portion of AI can’t sing rings around their lead singer. They’re all fantastically talented singers when they get that far. For many of them, if you were to put them in a rock band with say Michael Stipe or Noel Gallagher or Rich Robinson as the main songwriter, I think you and many of us would view them to be awesomely talented.

TO say that they don’t have talent is borderline ridiculous. To say that they don’t put out good music is quite another thing entirely.

By Hammy the Brave

January 24, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I do think FW has done a good job of generally addressing the Braves issues this offseason. However, I’m still interested in the Braves having a deeper, more versatile bench, with power.

How about them signing Morgan Ensberg, to back up at 3B/1B? Now remember, before you find fault with this guy, bench players inherently have flaws that usually prevent them from being regulars. Also, I’d like to hear your input on the bench, specifically what power guy(s) you’d like to add, who aren’t already on the team(that the Braves can afford). Also,are you saying the Braves’ budget may be so tight that they can’t afford a better bench option, say for 1.5-2 mill?

On a related note, I’ve wondered if the SF Giants might be a possibility to trade Thorman and Prado to(they have a gaping hole at 1B). They seem to have about 4 lefty relievers, at least 2 are power arms(Sanchez and Threets)and maybe 3 other older “prospects” I think they have devalued. I still consider him someone the Braves are keeping around because he’s out of options, and in case they can’t resign Tex longterm. I don’t consider him a good bench player at this point because of: his youth, holes in his swing, and I doubt Bobby will play him as a backup at LF/RF. I feel the same about Prado: he can’t play SS, doesn’t have basestealing speed or power.

I keep hearing that we may be close to signing Soriano to a 2yr deal(which I’d like because I doubt M. Gonzalez will be 100% whenever he comes back in 2008). The sources for this are Bill Shanks ,and a radio show that Bobby Cox was interviewed on recently(don’t remeber the show details). Do you know anything about how legitimate this rumour is?

Love to get your input,

Hammy the Brave

By i can't take it anymore

January 24, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

oh nooooooo!metroman is reporting mets-santana deal may still be in the works. if the mets get johan santana, it’s all going to be over! like dennis said, crown’em… they are who we thought they were. good googly moogly what a team of davy wright and johan. the rumor mill is also reporting davy wright has been working on his curve ball. with him at the bottom of the rotation, its a lock for the east, braves fans!

hey david, how was your trip to GSU?

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

flange1: EVH’s Peavey isn’t that much different from the Ernie Ball. Same compound radius on the neck, same material specs, same custom wiring and electronics… just more money from Peavey. Did you know that the 5150 has 5 gain stages in the preamp? Insane…

By Ramblin Wrecker

January 24, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Have you seen “Juno”? I think you’d enjoy it. Ellen Page delivers a memorable performance that I think is Oscar worthy. She isn’t likely to win, but she was brilliant. It was by far the funniest movie I’ve seen in sometime (and not in the vulgar Knocked Up kind of way, which I like too).

By AJC Editor

January 24, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

DOB

We were in first class, but I was just using an upgrade from schlepping around the country so much on Delta;

Mr O’Brien. Please be aware that all perks and benefits received as a direct result of AJC business matters are the exclusive property of AJC and are not to be used at your discretion for your sole benefit. Please report to my office immeditaly so we can frame out your reimbursement plan for said infraction.

By Arnold Drummond

January 24, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

What you talking about DOB? This is what I think about music and American Idol:

Now, the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum, What might be right for you, may not be right for some. A man is born, he’s a man of means. Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

But they got, Diff’rent Strokes. It takes, Diff’rent Strokes. It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.

Everybody’s got a special kind of story Everybody finds a way to shine, It don’t matter that you got not alot So what, They’ll have theirs, and you’ll have yours, and I’ll have mine. And together we’ll be fine….

Because it takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world. Yes it does. It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

FJR

Nice post. I can live with that view.

Voice of Reason

Also, a well stated POV.

Lew

You too, fall into the good post category. We’re on a roll, people.

You said:

“The point is that DOB, Myself, Nathan (and many others here) get it. It’s all about the music. What would life be without it?”

Pretty quiet, and boring. Well said.

Flange1

I have a buddy who SWEARS by the 5150 Amps. For years, I had a Peavey Rockmaster and a Classic 60 amp. Had to “follow the trend” and go with the all rack-mounted stuff in the 90’s. LOVED LOVED LOVED that amp. But it crashed on me (after about 12 years), I had it fix, it crashed again. I bought another used one on Ebay, IT crashed. Never did find out what, in my rig was causing the issue.

So I sold it all (seperately of course) on Ebay, and bought a Crate V Series 5212 Combo amp. The thing is so warm, yet has the attack of the rockmaster. Love it. Though I miss my Fender 4x12 cab I had with the rack stuff. Not nearly as much “ummph” once you step a few feet away from this amp (it’s an open back casing), compared to the closed back 4x12 cab.

I’ve got a 1994 PRS CE-24 for that I bought new in 94, in Chicago. Love that guitar.

The other guitar player I’m currently playing with has one of those Peavey Triple X heads. That thing is so RIDICULOUSLY loud for small clubs, it’s sick. A little too “heavy metal’ for me, but to each his own.

DOB

“By the way, agree with you on Aguilera — don’t like her music, but she can flat-out sing.”

See….I knew you had it in you! LOL! (wink).

Just kidding.

By brent a.

January 24, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know what the MLB on TV schedule will be this year?

What will TBS do during the regular season? I had thought it was supposed to be a Sunday game, but does that mean Sunday night, or Sunday afternoon? If Sunday night, does that mean “good-bye” to ESPN on Sunday night?

Alas, I am happy that I finally live in Atlanta, and do not have to pay extra to see the Braves games on TV, after seeing them for “free” every year since 1981.

By Braves20

January 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

All good comments above on the Brave’s ‘08 prospects. Agreed, each win from Hampton will be a bonus as will everything we get out of Kotsey.

Biggest key to success? How will our first baseman/clean-up hitter perform on the big stage of a real pennant race for a full year?

By flange1

January 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

VOR,

You are right, they are similar, the Peaveys always seemed heavier to me and I do not like the pickups in the Peavey. Again personal taste!

The gain stages in the 5150 are amazing. I prefer the combo to the half stack.

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

“I do think FW has done a good job of generally addressing the Braves issues this offseason.”

Is anybody else out there having a hard time typing FW instead of JS.

This is a hard transition for me, with how much I type.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

By the way, I haven’t mentioned it yet, but if Javy wins the backup catcher job, he’ll likely be assigned to catch one of the five starters. Braves are expected to go with that arrangment, which Cox has preferred in the past….

Just saw that Dan Kolb signed a minor league contract with Boston. That means three of the Braves’ most recent closers are either unsigned and maybe retired (Bob Wickman) or signed to minor league contracts (Kolb, Chris Reitsma with Seattle)….

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

By the way, I haven’t mentioned it yet, but if Javy wins the backup catcher job, he’ll likely be assigned to catch one of the five starters. Braves are expected to go with that arrangment, which Cox has preferred in the past….

Just saw that Dan Kolb signed a minor league contract with Boston. That means three of the Braves’ most recent closers are either unsigned and maybe retired (Bob Wickman) or signed to minor league contracts (Kolb, Chris Reitsma with Seattle)….

By Lew

January 24, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

No Anders-As usual your head is up-no I won’t go there. It’s a new year and I’m kinder and gentler, right? Well, maybe.

If the Mets pull off a deal and pick up Santana, it surely WILL improve their pitching staff. I do not need to be convinced of this-I’m already well aware of the fact. However……..

It isn’t just a matter of picking up Santana. I’m with DOB on this one-just like I have been all along. The Mets (and this is an honest evaluation-it has nothing at all to do with what I think of the Mets personally) have many holes and very little depth in a number of areas and you Anders, and Metro Dude, seemingly refuse to acknowledge this fact.

Go ahead and get Santana. In a way, I almost hope you do, because it still won’t come close to guaranteeing you a playoff berth in 08 and will totally destroy your chances long term.

The reasons for this are simple. You have a VERY old team, overall and you have very little roster depth-both at the ML level and in the minors. Your farm system is extremely weak-has been for many, many years. The Twins are asking for ALL of your ML ready or almost ready talent.

If you trade all this young talent, how do you replace Alou, DelGado, ElDuque, Pedro or Castillo? How do you replace any of them THIS year when they go down to their inevitable injuries (and I say inevitable because that is their track record-just like Chipper)? You have no bench depth. Do you seriously think Chavez (who you, yourself acknowledged recently was NOT a full time player) can fill in and provide Moises bat? What do you do (even with Santana) if Pedro goes down? He has, after all, only pitched 80 something innings in 22 months, by season’s start? Who replaces El Duque, who is 42 and only pitched 140 something innings last year, spending considerable time on the DL? What about Pelfrey, who at best, was quite disappointing last year?

How will your replacements for Shaun Green and Paul LoDuca work out? Is either replacement anywhere near the player those two were? I sure don’t think so. What do you do about clubhouse dissension with a totally unhappy closer fueling the fire?

As if this year were not an issue, Anders, what about the future? It is widely speculated that this is Alou’s, Pedro’s and El Duque’s last season. How do you replace almost half of your starting rotation NEXT year? How do you do this and replace your first baseman (Del Gado will not be a Met for much longer) and left fielder as well? Seems you will have EXACTLY the same problems next year as you do now, but with the trade for Santana, you will have ZERO help coming from New Orleans. As for all this $$$$$ we keep hearing about, where is it? Why was it not spent last offseason? Why was it not spent at the trade deadline last year? Would not another piece or two helped you to the playoffs? Why hasn’t any of it been spent THIS offseason? We won’t even get into the bullpen where you will count heavily on Sanchez, another pitcher coming back from missing an entire season, plus.

No Anders, this is an honest evaluation. David Wright and Jose Reyes (Santana, too, should you land him), good as they are, are not enough to pull the Mets through. You have WAY too many other issues. You still have the Phillies (who in case you weren’t aware, won the Division over you last year) and the Braves (who HAVE improved themselves during the offseason) to contend with in addition to all your holes. I wish you luck. You will need it and a couple more pitchers, a few relievers and a bench as well.

Yes, I hate the Mets as the rivals they are, but please, as I’ve asked before, dispute me on any of this. For some odd reason, you never have. You just keep telling me it’s because I hate the Mets. So go ahead and tell me exactly where I miscalculated in this entire situation. I bet you can’t, because I think I nailed the evaluation right on the head.

By Jeff R

January 24, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

It surprises me that Buster Olney is so behind the curve on Hampton. DOB is right on target: Hampton can’t be counted on, and if he delivers anything, consider it a bonus.

I would expect Smoltz and Hudson to each deliver the required 15 wins and 200 innings. Glavine is a probable, though I think it remains to be seen if he still has adequate velocity and the stamina to produce as the season wears on. James needs to rebound from arm fatigue and a mediocre sophomore campaign. Jurrjens seems to be the real deal. Soriano needs to stay healthy, as DOB mentions, but he also needs to keep his head in games. I think he got tagged last year when he suffered mental lapses.

The regulars are solid, though health is always an issue with Chipper and now Kotsay.

The defense will be there, and so should the hitting. So it’s all about the pitching.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Zac, I heard that Leo might have hooked on as a roadie for the upcoming Mute Math tour….

Ramblin Wrecker, I’d put Juno in my top 10 for the year, for sure. Loved it. Even more than Superbad, which was also hilarious.

If it weren’t for Julie Christie’s performance in Away From Her, I’d say the young Ms. Paige’s work in Juno should win her the Oscar. But Christie was incredible in that heartbreaking movie. And Laura Linney is also great in The Savages (I think she was nominated for best actress, but not sure)….

Leo, if you’re reading, I was kidding. And Notre Dame will rise again (someday … surely they will … right?)

By David-ATL14

January 24, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Hammy I saw Thorman’s name mentioned in one of the SF Giants blog/columns also.

Would be a good place for him especially if Braves could include some other parts and take a run at Sanchez a power arm lefty who is both cheap and under control for several years.

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Arnold Drummond

LOL! Nice job.

btw: One of the greatest tv theme songs of all time.

Let the “arguing” begin….er….continue.

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

flange1: In the late 80’s, I owned a Peavey Vandenberg. It was the first signature Peavey and their intro into the super-strat market. It was nothing like any other Peavey at the time. I was on the receiving end of alot of trash talk beacause of the “Peavey stigma”. The Vandenberg, though, was a beast - super fast neck, custom p/u’s, locking trem, etc. I sold it only a couple of years ago…

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I think this whole Buster Onlney thing might be a little misread, maybe not.

But the one player he fails to mention, is Hudson.

Is this because Hudson isn’t a “question mark”? If that is the case, maybe he assumes that Hudson will anchor the rotation, with Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton to follow (based on health). Because I think it’s reasonable to assume that if all of those 3 are healthy, they will be effective, more often than not.

Now, the fact that he “singled” Hampton out, does make it seem as though he hasn’t been paying attention.

But lets just say that he isn’t too far off. If Smoltz or Glavine remotely show their age this year, WHOEVER is the 4th starter (possibly not Hampton), will become VERY important.

Of course the 4th and 5th starter (regardless of Smoltz’ and Glavine’s health), are VERY important 2 out of ever 5 days. :-)

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I was already expecting to see Jordan Schafer basically attached to the hip of Mark Kotsay during spring training.

Then I read this quote from A’s manager Bob Geren in a story today by the Oakland MLB.com writer, talking about the team’s revamped outfield and the loss of Mark Kotsay:

“Losing Mark, you lose a fundamentally sound outfielder who’s a good teacher who helped a lot of young guys,” Geren said. “He really helped Swish [Nick Swisher] a lot, and he took [Travis] Buck aside and showed him some things, too. Mark had a lot of influence here.”

By Braveheart

January 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

When is Laura Linney not great?

I saw Eastern Promises the other night. I was disappointed. There was absolutely no need for Naomi Watts and the baby in that movie. That just seemed liked a lazy plot trick device meant to suck the audience into that underworld almost as if they did not trust the audience to care enough about a Russian Mafia movie. I like looking at Naomi but she wasn’t needed at all.

Viggo and that Russian underworld was compelling enough to carry the movie. Viggo was awesome. Wish they would have just focused on Viggo and the Russians. That would have made a good movie great. Maybe the creators of that movie were just too scared to get in over their heads. It seemed that way to me. The storytelling was too conventional and the ending was so pathetically cliched.

As it was, it was worth it just to see Viggo’s out of this world performance.

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Lew

Tone it back a bit. There’s only so much space on this blog for my 3000 word, 28 paragraph epic posts.

See, now I absolutely LOVE watching you and the Mets trolls having it out, no matter how long the posts are.

Keep up the good work.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

i can’t take it anymore (I’m addressing the poster who goes by this screen name, not making a personal statement): the GSU thing is tonight.

By Lew

January 24, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Nathan-But was I wrong?

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

FJR, agreed: Some on the show that will go nameless obviously have plenty of talent, in terms of singing (and I guess some on there can play, though I haven’t watched the show to see if they have many actual bands).

It’s the soulless, overwrought schlock that most of the “winners” produce that makes me cringe and throw things.

By N8

January 24, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason

Be careful. Mentioning the Peavey Vandenberg, could be thought of as making a reference (even if it’s not directly made), to Whitesnake. LOL!

DOB

That is more than likely, was just as important to the Braves as Kotsay’s play on the field.

A) He will lead by example, from what I’ve read of what you have said about him.

B) If he is injured and can’t go, it appears as though he would be whoever takes his spots’ biggest fan, and menor.

That’s why all of the people that say this was a wasted move, and a “one year bandaid”, aren’t looking at the big picture, when it comes to what impact he’ll have on Schafer for the REST OF HIS CAREER.

I’ve often read athletes talking about who “took them under their wing”, when they came up.

Not that Andruw couldn’t have done the same thing. But it appears, that Kotsay has the same qualities that TP had when he played, which is what’s made him a decent hitting coach, and more than likely Bobby’s successor when he’s done.

Kind of reminds me of how Grissom took Dye under his wing. If I remember correctly, Dye lived with him, diidn’t he?

A team can NEVER have too many of these guys around, IMO.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

**On this day in baseball history:

1973: In his first year of eligibility, Warren Spahn receives 316 of the 380 votes cast to become a member of the Hall of Fame. The southpaw, who recorded thirteen 20-win seasons, retired as the winningest left-handed pitcher in big league history with 363 victories.

COMMENT: Would those 64 of you dissenting voters who are still alive, please explain yourselves. I’d love to hear it.

1980: Nelson Doubleday and Fred Wilpon purchase the Mets for an estimated $21.1 million. The price tag is the highest amount ever paid for a baseball franchise.

COMMENT: Without crunching numbers, that investment seems to represent a potentially bigger rate of return than those in my 401K or my Roth IRA would appear to have, at this point.

By Salty

January 24, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

VOR It’s the end of the world as we know it. REM fan, huh? I’m with ya! :-)

Scoots preventive blogging You kill me!

DO’B young Miss Paige…as in ‘Hard Candy’? Oh…very distrubing…heckuva a young actress!

By Shaun

January 24, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Ken (Bridgewater, NJ): Do you think the Braves have given up too many prospects the last year? They’ve given up Salty, Andrus, Harrison (who I’ve heard about forever but still haven’t seen), Devine, Aybar, and Fontaine. Seems like they’ve given up a ton for not so much.

Keith Law: I think the only two guys there who come back to haunt them are the first two. And even Andrus is a ways off - there’s a time-value involved here, where Atlanta gave away Andrus’ potential stardom in 2010+ for Teixeira’s stardom today.

By Salty

January 24, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

DO’B Good point on the investment. It won’t be long before some professional franchise is sold as a REIT. Question: would you buy into a team you hate?

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

N8: Adrian Vandenberg a/k/a The Flying Dutchman. I didn’t care much for Whitesnake, but his band Vandenberg and self-titled album (1982) was kickin’. That was before the Whitesnake thing. I did like alot of the “hair bands” though, including the aforementioned Winger with former Dreg Rockin’ Rod Morgenstern on drums. They were a really talented 4-some…

By flange1

January 24, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

VOR,

The AV model Peavey was a very high quality instrument. The folks at Peavey do make quality products, the Steve Cropper tele is pretty good too.

I don’t have a real problem with Peavey, I just had the unfortunate opportunity to meet and have interaction with Hartley. He is not my favorite guy. I have met alot of the owners of companies that make musical equipment and most are great, a little ego oriented, but nice guys and gals who love their products and their business. But Hartley, not so much…

By Braveheart

January 24, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I would love to buy the Cubs. With that ballpark, the day games, cool logo and gear, the huge national popularity, there is no excuse for that team to not have won at least a handful of World Series in the last century or so while raking in millions. A creative owner could do wondrous things with that team.

By Randy S

January 24, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

DOB - Of course, you know that the Whigs are playing the Fabulous Forty Watt on Saturday. There are worse things than Athens on a Saturday night……While I agree that they may not be playing places like the EARL much longer, I think they’ll be at the 40 Watt for years to come. Bands are very loyal to that room.

For anyone wondering what all the buzz is about, the Whigs will be on Letterman Monday (January 28th). Check them out.

By Mitchie-san

January 24, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Calll me crazy or just optimistic, but I have a feeling that Hampton might just win the “comback player of the year”. He was doing pretty darn good before he hurt his elbow again. Plus, if I remember right, this injury wasnt as severe as the Tommy John issue. Am I a day dreamer, or do I just want to wear that old Hampton jersey in my closest again….hmmm.

By BB FAN

January 24, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008),

I too remember hearing about the “Twins less than honest manipulation of the indoor playing conditions at the Metrodome.”

However, I forget where I read or heard that from. Do you remember?

Does anybody else know where that came from?

By Voice of Reason

January 24, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Gotta jet. Later all…

By BB FAN

January 24, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Anders,

You do realize that in November the Mets had absolutely no chance at Santana, right? It wasn’t until recently when the Yankees and Red Sox backed off a little as well as the fact that the mets are supposedly willing to include Martinez now.

Anyway, I really would not mind the mets getting Santana because that would completely deplete the Mets already weak organization. This would in turn pretty much guarantee the Mets demise for about 5 years.

Lew and DOB are absolutely right when they say that the Mets have no depth. Of course, they will try to “buy” themselves a team again. I mean they will have to replace Hernandez, Martinez, Delgado, Schneider and Alou somehow. It definitey would not come from the minor leagues if they include 5 or 6 guys for Santana. Each of those guys only have a year or two left of quality skills.

By Shaun

January 24, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I agree. Cubs ownership has been pathetic, to state the obvious. Of course, look how long it took the Red Sox to get the right group in place. I guess when you have an old franchise in an old park, you have a hard time with innovation.

By N8

January 24, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason

I had a Vandenberg recording on tape. I since have not replaced it on CD.

You are correct. Morgentstein is on helluva drummer.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

LEW if the mets land santana, or even if they dont, they just have to hope that they can sign guys to fill every need they will have coming up. after this year, they are going to have to sign at least one pitcher (weather they get santana or not) a 1st baseman, and a left fielder, and try not to take any steps back. and thats the minimum they need. i think its virtually impossible for them to fill all the holes they have, there are just too many. if i were the mets, i would trade some guys off for minor leaguers. anybody 35 or over should be up for grabs.

By DonCoburleone

January 24, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

I’ve been hearing alot of fellow Braves fans saying that if the Mets get Johan Santana that it still doesn’t mean they are the best team in the NL East. I would have to disagree with that. The Mets would be acquiring 215+ innings of the best (or at worst 2nd best) pitcher in all of baseball without affecting the major league roster whatsoever! Now I think we can all agree that right now, as the teams stack up on paper, the Mets, Braves and Phillies stand to win somewhere between 85-92 games (depending on which way the cookie crumbles). If any of these teams were to replace their 5th starter with freakin’ Johan Santana it would make them the clear favorite in my book, hands down.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Hard Candy … good flick. I’d never heard of it until I saw the box and read the review. Glad I rented it.

By Ramblin' Man

January 24, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Call me crazy or just optimistic, but I have a feeling that Hampton might just win the “comback player of the year”.

Mitchie-san - I’ll call you optimistic.

Lord, I was born a ramblin’ man,

Tryin’ to make a livin’ and doin’ the best I can.

And when it’s time for leavin’, I hope you’ll understand,

That I was born a ramblin’ man.

By Efrim

January 24, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Do you ever participate on those KLAW chats?

By McFann

January 24, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

DOB

I saw that on MLB.com where it said that Troy’s deal was the biggest since Sizemore’s. Obviously, that is inaccurate. McCann’s contract was about $4 million bigger than Sizemore’s, but whatever.

And what did you mean that Javy being assigned to one of the five starters? I’m not angry, I just want to know.

By HUH?!?!?

January 24, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

FJR: “I’ll start this by saying that I LOVE the whigs, their last album was one of my favorite debut albums of the last 10 years.”

By Mitchie-san

January 24, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

At least you didnt call me crazy….thanks!

By McFann

January 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

McCann’s deal is $4.35 million bigger than Sizemore’s, to be exact.

By Scuba-Steve

January 24, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, what is Hard Candy about?

By flange1

January 24, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

N8,

Sorry just caught your PRS post.. Those are really quality guitars. I have not found the right one for me yet, but still looking!

I am more of a comb fan than a 1/2 stack fan. I have lots of “vintage” Fenders and I have a friend that is big into new age pedals so I have lots of those to front end the non-master volume amps. Lots of fun!

I too believe that Hampton is going to come back with a vengeance. That is why I am pushing for Bennett and Chuckie in the pen.

By Gsu-Lee

January 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

DOB “I can’t take it anymore, the GSU thing is tonight.” What do you mean by that? Are you really excited to be here? Because I’m only here out of necessity….see you later…

By Roadrunner

January 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

I’m optimistic about Hampton - Clearly he will be rusty at first, but hopefully he contribute this year.

My gripe of the day has to do with Mr Bonds. He has stated for some time that he told the truth during the Grand Jury investigation, but now he’s saying HE DIDN’T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTIONS - Come on Mr Bonds - You’re only sinking even lower on my list. Unbelievable!

Go BRAVES - Let’s hope we have the Big 4 instead of the Big 3 - C’mon Mike, we’re with ya.

By Shaun

January 24, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I’ve asked some questions but never broke through.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Lew

It isn’t just a matter of picking up Santana. I’m with DOB on this one-just like I have been all along.

This has not been your stance all along. Your stance was that the Mets don’t have anything of value that could bring a player like Santana back. Apparently others (including DOB) don’t feel as strongly as you do on this. Please don’t do a Mike Fransesca revisionist history on us now.

Go ahead and get Santana. In a way, I almost hope you do,

Wow! Now I know you’re worried they’ll actually get him. I’ll alert Omar that you’re on board now.

If you trade all this young talent, how do you replace Alou, DelGado, ElDuque, Pedro or Castillo?

We buy Tex with Delgado’s money(14.5 mil) plus some, I believe Castillo got a two year deal, and according to you Pedro and El Duque are old crap anyway - how hard would they be to replace?

You have no bench depth

Endy Chavez, Marlon Anderson, Damion Easley, Anderson Hernandez, Ramon Castro. I think you misfired on this one.These guys are all contributors from the bench.

How do you replace any of them THIS year when they go down to their inevitable injuries

I agree some injuries are inevatable and the players I just mentioned can bridge some of that gap. If the Mets have too many like any team they won’t overcome it. But keeping a bunch of prospects around with no top flight ace doesn’t help that either? At least for next season.

As for all this $$$$$ we keep hearing about, where is it? Why was it not spent last offseason?

On who exactly? What MLB player that would help the Mets should they have purchased? Although they still might overpay for a 4th or 5th starter off the scrap heap (Lohse) not sure where you wanted them to go. They offered Glavine $13 mil and he left. Everyone scoffed when they gave Castillo his contract and now you’re asking why they don’t spend.

We won’t even get into the bullpen where you will count heavily on Sanchez, another pitcher coming back from missing an entire season, plus.

As I’ve said all along bullpens are a year to year thing. That’s why those guys are relievers to begin with, inconsistency. I expect Schoenweis to pitch better, Heilman’s Heilman, hopefully Sanchez is effective, Feliciano is effective when not over used and at the end of the day we still have Wagner. Not perfect but he gets the job done a lot more than most.

How will your replacements for Shaun Green and Paul LoDuca work out? Is either replacement anywhere near the player those two were? I sure don’t think so.

Have you looked at Shaun Green’s numbers versus Church’s from last year? Please do so. I view Church as an upgrade over the 2008 Green. As for the catching, I’ve said repeatedly that Schneider is a pro receiver that teams who win playoff series have. Girardi, O’Brien, Charles Johnson, Any Molina, Damian Miller etc.. While LoDuca could be clutch at the plate, let’s be honest that wasn’t Johnny Bench we shipped out of town. I’ll take the D every time behind the plate. Especially with next year’s running NL East. If you don’t see that coming between the Mets, Phils, and even the Nats your blind. All kidding aside, McCann is gonna have his work cut out for him behind the plate next year IMO.

What do you do about clubhouse dissension with a totally unhappy closer fueling the fire?

Loduca and Milledge are gone. Pretty sure they were who most talked about as clubhouse issues. I never put much stock in that stuff but I think the Mets at least addressed it. As for Wagner - I’m pretty sure his issue was with Milledge and he likes to shoot his mouth off about MGT. Big deal.

I don’t see the gap between the Mets, Braves and Phillies as vast as you do. Remember, the Mets were in first place all but one day in 2006 and almost all of last year. You can believe they’re going to fall off the face of the earth from there because Glavine, LoDuca and Milledge are gone. I think that’s a little extreme.

Sorry to all for this long post which is not my style but I was trying to answer Lew once and for all as he’s accused me of ducking the issues he’s raised.

By roadrunner

January 24, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Hard Candy - Great movie with Ellen page playing a girl you “punishes” a man that was setting her up to “have his way with her”. She turns the tables - Maybe that’s an understatement - what she does to that man.

By Scuba-Steve

January 24, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks roadrunner!

By DAP

January 24, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

anders if the the mets DONT land santana….do you think the mets might “fall off the face of the earth”? seriously, how do you like your chances with your team the way it is now?

By Efrim

January 24, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I have broken through a few times when I ask about certain Braves prospects. Once about Jordan Schafer and his dislike for people’s comparisons of him to Grady Sizemore. The other was about Jason Heyward and how he believes he will be the best Brave player since Chipper.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

BB Fan

You do realize that in November the Mets had absolutely no chance at Santana, right? It wasn’t until recently when the Yankees and Red Sox backed off a little as well as the fact that the mets are supposedly willing to include Martinez now.

You do realize that back in November this was the exact scenario I said would and could happen for the Mets to have a shot. I put it at about 5% back then. But as I saw the Yanks and Red Sox stand around with their hands in their pockets kicking at the dirt it became apparent to me in December that they really aren’t that hot for Johan. I was ridiculed by many on here especially Big Lew. Not saying it’s a lock but I certainly hear more people giving it a chance than ever - even the supposed experts in the game.

*Anyway, I really would not mind the mets getting Santana because that would completely deplete the Mets already weak organization. This would in turn pretty much guarantee the Mets demise for about 5 years. *

Sorry, that’s a cop out. All I heard on here was the Mets have no farm system and can’t develop players. they have no one of value to trade, blah, blah, blah. Now if they trade these guys it puts them back 5 years? I would think based on the assessment you and most on this blog have of the Mets system Omar would be a genius if he could turn all that crap into Santana -no?

they will have to replace Hernandez, Martinez, Delgado, Schneider and Alou somehow.

If these guys are that good then the Mets should have a shot next year -right? If not, what’s the big deal about replacing them?

Can’t have it both ways guys.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

McFann,

What DOB was saying about assigning Lopez to a pitcher is what Bobby Cox does almost every year, let the back up catcher catch a certain starter every time he starts.

When Maddox was on the team, the back-up catcher caught Maddox not Javy.

This is the way Bobby likes to handle his catchers.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 24, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

BB FAN While I cannot remember the magazine or newspaper where I first read the story, it was widely reported that the fellow who was in charge of air conditioning at the Metrodome came forward when asked about the strange phenomena of the (wind) always blowing out whenever the Twins came to bat.

He said he would turn the ventilation fans on when the visiting team was at bat and turn them off when the home team was up. He stated that the Twins were well aware of this practice but never commented on it or told him to stop.

By MGL

January 24, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

There is no reason to panic if the Mutts get Santana. No doubt he is an excellent pitcher (best in the game is a stretch in my opinion). Comparing 2007 quality start %, Santana, 64%, Glavine 68%, Hudson 74%, Smoltz 81%

The Mets gain should e looked at as replacement value over Glavine. They are simply not going to win 10 more games than last year merely by adding Santana.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 24, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Anders No one was happier to see Shaun Green leave the Mets than John Smoltz….

By Lew

January 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Anders-Oh Please, give me a flipping break. I’ve changed my stance? Not hardly, the Twins have just gone off the deep end when they couldn’t entice the Yankees and Red Sox to part with their truly desirable prospects, and now are considering their third or fourth option (if that)-the Mets. Besides, just who cares what my opinion on the Mets prospect package is? Am I going to influence the trade one way or another? Damn, Dude, I know an Asst. GM, but I assure you that neither he nor any other front office personnel seek my advice when making a trade. Besides, the trade has not gone down and there is no indication that it ever will.

So you replaced Shaun Green with someone you think is as good. Well wow. What can I say to that? I do know that LoDuca was an All Star catcher within recent years, that was quite capable of providing offense and you replaced him with a guy that hit .235. Again. Wow. I’m overwhelmed.

Now as for picking up a player at the deadline last year-Do you seriously believe that if you had gotten a pitcher-damn near any pitcher-that you might not have won one or two more games? What would THAT have done to your season. You do remember that the Mets missed the playoffs, don’t you? Besides, if you have all of that money, what’s the big deal? The Yankees do it, right?

LoDuca and Milledge may be gone, but Billy Wagner made his comments well after they were no longer with the Mets, so there will be clubhouse dissension-not to mention that Wagner said many of the same things about the construction of your team that I have. What do you think about that?

Bullpens may well be a year to year thing, but so far, the Mets’ is essentially the same as last year, and that was not all that great if memory serves me right (and I damn well know it does). The only changes I’m aware of are that Mota the Juicer is gone and Duaner (I missed more than a year) Sanchez has returned. Maybe he will be your savior-maybe not. I wouldn’t count on him until I saw how he pitched, though.

Pedro and ElDuque won’t be hard to replace because they are not that good, anyway? That is one of the absolutely most moronic statements I have ever hear and if you can’t figure out why, then an explanation wouldn’t help. Who will they be replaced with? Who will be left in your high minors after a trade for Santana? How about the extremely thin free agent pitching market of the past two years that values scrub relievers at $6 mill per? Oh well, I guess there’s always Jared Wright. I suppose you could try to convince the Mets’ masses he was David’s brother and at least fit for VP or Co-Dictator, right?

As for Tex-dream on. He will be signed long term by the Braves. Besides-aren’t the Yankees looking for a first baseman, too? The Mets don’t stand a chance.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 24, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

flange1 Depending on how well Javy plays, I would not be surprised to see him play more than once every five days. Of course a lot depends on if Javy makes the team or if he still can hit. We will all know by March 31st.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

DAP

No I don’t the Mets will fall off the face of the earth as presently constituted. I’ve acknowledged that the Braves have a distinct advantage in starting pitching, but I don’t think the on field teams and bullpens are that far apart. I’ve said repeatedly, three team race as it stands now. All have their issues. IMO, for the two cents it’s worth (if that).

By Efrim

January 24, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Anders

I must say, I was one of the Braves fans that said that the Mets had no shot of getting Santana. But it looks like they are the current leaders with the talks picking up a lot of steam.

I’m hoping they trade Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Pelfrey and Mulvey to get the deal done. That would weaken there farm quite a bit.

Santana, Maine, Perez, Martinez and El Duque with Humber as back up when one of them goes down. Pretty good. The back end is old and probably won’t get you more than 300 innings, but the Mets would be in a much better position.

I can’t imagine why any Braves fan would think that adding Santana wouldn’t be a big deal for the Mets. I really don’t get that.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Gil,

You might be right about Javy playing more. What are your thoughts on B. Pena? Do you think he has a shot to make the team as the backup C or as a backup at 1B,3B and OF?

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Soriano signed a two-year contract. No arb-eligibles left unsigned, and no closer concerns a year from now, provided he stays healthy.

Braves bought out a year of Soriano’s free agency, and they’ll have Gonzalez under control in 2009, too. It’ll be Gonzalez’s last year of arbitration in ‘09.

By Salty

January 24, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

roadrunner…scuba-steve

Yep, ‘Hard Candy’…Lolita turnabout.

By Efrim

January 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

Good stuff. That is a smart baseball move by FW.

By JT

January 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Great News DOB!!!!!!!!!!!!

So are we all set for the 2008 season??

By Salty

January 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hopefully Francouer is next to lock down. McCann and Tulowitzki’s contracts set the market, in my view.

By Josh H

January 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Javy Lopez, on the downside of his career (that’s if he even makes the team) will be taking playing days away from a two-time All Star in Brian McCann.

McCann will play, unless he needs a day off…

By flange1

January 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Well you have to give Frank W credit, he sure gets things done!

Thanks for the Soriano info DOB!

By Desert Brave

January 24, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

DOB - Any way you could write a little explaining arbitration? How and when players become eligible and etc.

By Braveheart

January 24, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

I like the Big Daddy/Adam Sandler reference from Scuba Steve

By Anders

January 24, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

LEW

Now as for picking up a player at the deadline last year-Do you seriously believe that if you had gotten a pitcher-damn near any pitcher-that you might not have won one or two more games?

The Mets didn’t need a pitcher at the deadline last year. Remember, they were in first by a comfortable margin and Tom Glavine was humming along. DOB has provided those deatils to us numerous times. Nobody foresaw the September collapse to come. What pitcher should they have picked up? Who would you have sat in September when we need just one more win? Hmmm.

Bullpens may well be a year to year thing, but so far, the Mets’ is essentially the same as last year, and that was not all that great if memory serves me right (and I damn well know it does).

That’s my point. Last years struggling reliever is this years hot guy. See it all the time. They’re a crapshoot.

Didn’t realize what a LoDuca fan you were. Somehow that didn’t translate in your Met posts last season. Must have been lost in the blood spatter. As for Green - he had 46 RBI. Marlon Anderson could play everyday and give the Mets more than that. And still it took a historic collapse for the Mets to fall from first with Green in right.

As for Tex-dream on. He will be signed long term by the Braves. Besides-aren’t the Yankees looking for a first baseman, too? The Mets don’t stand a chance.

This is the same argument you used for Santana just two months ago. I suppose you’ll revise your take on this next off season as well?

And with the Mets Tex gets to visit with the family in Atlanta a few times a year when the Mets are in town. If the local club can’t afford you at least you can play with a team that comes to town a few times a year -no?

By DAP

January 24, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

good move locking up soriano for two. who knows how gonzalez will be when he gets back? i think soriano will thrive in the closers role…he’ll be one of the top closers in the NL this year.

By AdirondackDave

January 24, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Glad to see Soriano locked in for two more years. Whether he closes as he is slated for, or sets up, I want him on my team. If Gonzalez comes back healthy and strong in July the pen looks really good to me.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Anders thanx for the response. personally i dont think the mets have much to look forward tot his year unless they get santana.

Josh H i agree with you on mccann, but he needs days off alot more than he got them last year. i think once every five days (thats like once a week) is a good time off for a catcher. if we have a decent offensive cathcer, i think it would be prudent to limit mccann to 135-140 games or so.

lets hope francouer gets a contract before the season starts.

By jed

January 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

N8—

Wow. Nice job of ducking the question. Did you think I wouldnt notice?

By JC FROM UT

January 24, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Great news about Soriano. FW is really doing a great job of traking care of business quickly.Now if he can only get Tex to sign long term.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Here we go with the Glavine thing again! Your 4:33 post clearly indicates that Glavine was the reason the Mets collapsed from the end of the trade deadline to the end of the season.

How many times does DOB have to tell you it was only his last 3 starts that were bad.

The collapse was not 100% Glavine’s fault.

If you can’t believe that, you DO have a problem.

By McFann

January 24, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Javy Lopez, on the downside of his career (that’s if he even makes the team) will be taking playing days away from a two-time All Star in Brian McCann.

Totally good point. Another good point is that Javy may not even make the team out of Spring Training. But I know how Bobby is with his backup catchers. But McCann played almost every game in April. (Then Padro Feliciano nailed him in the finger with a pitch, blah blah blah…)

All kidding aside, McCann is gonna have his work cut out for him behind the plate next year IMO.

For once in my life, I have to agree with ya, Anders.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 24, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

any word on how much Soriano will be earning in 2008 and 2009?

great to see that Wren is thinking about the future…next on his to-do list: Francoeur and Teixeira to extensions!

By Anders

January 24, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Soriano signed a two-year contract. No arb-eligibles left unsigned, and no closer concerns a year from now, provided he stays healthy.

Except for the fact that your closer has 13 career saves. Sorry guys, but closing night in and night out takes more than just good health. Lot’s of head games and stamina. It’s not just about stuff. Not saying Soriano won’t succeed, but with 13 career saves and not one of any significance there’s no way you can say the closer issue is put to bed as long as he stays healthy and has a contract IMO.

By Gsu-Lee

January 24, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Remember Todd Pratt and Corky Miller? And Paul bako? Can an aged Javy Lopez really be any worse than those guys? He will play if he makes the team.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Flange 1

The collapse was not 100% Glavine’s fault

I agree 100%.

I also think the Mets should have won even with his last three bad starts. All I’ve said is he didn’t step up like an ACE HOF’er is supposed to in crunch time. He was responsible for his part - that’s all. I expected more out of him than the younger starters at the end and didn’t get it. That’s all. My point to Lew was if the Mets picked up some slug at the deadline - who do you sit? Maine, Perez Glavine etc.. Come on. It’s revisionist to think they could have picked up some guy to win a game or two.

By Edgar( Next on line please...Mr. Teixeira)

January 24, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

Does the deal comes with an option year??? or it just two year and period. Do you think he got his 3.4 M he was asking???

By Lew

January 24, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Anders-If I recall correctly-and as usual, I do-No Brain Zone gave me bushels of crap all season long because I swore that the Mets’ rotation was old an would end up injured-that in the long run you would have problems. Guess what? You did. The Mets had a sub .500 record last season from the end of May until the end of the season. Go look it up. It is a fact. They needed pitching help several times during the course of the season, what with ElDuque missing at least one and maybe two stints on the DL. Your bullpen was less than effective for a good bit of the season, as well. Now if I saw it coming and claimed it would happen from last offseason all the way through the year, then why didn’t Omar see it coming?

Or here’s something else to think about-Moises missed almost half a season. Why didn’t Omar take some of all that money and get a suitable replacement for him? It’s one thing being DL’ed for two weeks, but for three months and he does nothing about it? Not to mention that for a couple of weeks, Beltran was gone, too.

By Braint

January 24, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I couldn’t agree more with you about Eastern Promises. I was really interested in their world and wished it was a 3 hour long journey following Viggo’s character. (Like Goodfellas). I was left thinking, who was he? Why did he get involved with Scotland Yard? Would have loved to have seen him run the Mob to see how much deeper he got in and how many people he would have to bust, etc. Did you like Cronenberg’s other film with Viggo? “History of Violence?” DOB, what did you think of Eartern Promises?

By Braint

January 24, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I couldn’t agree more with you about Eastern Promises. I was really interested in their world and wished it was a 3 hour long journey following Viggo’s character. (Like Goodfellas). I was left thinking, who was he? Why did he get involved with Scotland Yard? Would have loved to have seen him run the Mob to see how much deeper he got in and how many people he would have to bust, etc. Did you like Cronenberg’s other film with Viggo? “History of Violence?” DOB, what did you think of Eartern Promises?

By Robert

January 24, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

“But the Braves did address every need”

Except the need to rid themselves of their idiot manager

Like I said in the previous blog - This is a 90-93 win roster that will struggle to win 80 games due to mismanagement on the field

By Anders

January 24, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Anyone have a chance to read Rob Neyer’s article on ESPN.com? Interesting stuff. Suprised more haven’t referenced it on here.

By Robert (Anders Is The Best)

January 24, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Anders, the closer situation is just fine. Don’t sweat us because you fear your fine closer is getting old and showed signs of cracking last year. Soriano will be just fine. Hey, how many career saves did Mariano Rivera have when he took over the role for the Yanks? Just wondering.

By DonCoburleone

January 24, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Good news on Soriano DOB. I know you are probably working diligently to find this out, but any idea on the terms of the contract? Seems strange that a guy 1 year away from a huge payday would sign a 2 year deal. I’d say it would have to be at least 2 year, $13 or $14 million…

By Robert

January 24, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

“Now, having said that, I can see why if somebody likes Bobby Cox, they would be offened at Robert saying he SUCKS. “

They wouldnt have to like it, but since his track record proves it true, they couldnt deny it either.

By Lew

January 24, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Anders-One thing I know for certain-two actually. If the situation had been with the Braves, where we lost the Division by one game and they had done nothing at all at the trade deadline to improve their team, every Braves’ fan would be highly p!$$ed and would be quite vocal about it. Then MetroDude and every other Mets’ slug that comes here to argue their inanities would be yelling about what a bunch of screw ups and losers we were to come that close and to have not done anything proactive.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

DAP

Fair enough. That’s why they play the games -right?

By Robert

January 24, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

“If RBI is an indicator of greatness, why is it that only nine leaders (covering 11 seasons) from 1950 to 1994 ….”

The number of rbi a player accumulates depends on a number of factors, only one of which is that player’s ability

Jim Rice doesnt belong in the HOF because he was not great for an extended period of time. He was great for a brief period, no doubt, but this is the HOF, not an AS team.

No numerical stat or rating as a single piece of information validates or invaldiates his HOF candidacy. It’s his whole body of work that falls short

The fact that only one of however many rbi leaders made the HOF for some period has zero bearing on Rice’s (or any other player’s) candidacy

As usual, Shaun, you toss around a lot of statistics, but your understanding of them is minimal

By flange1

January 24, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Anders,

What to say about Neyer’s column? He said Chipper was too old to be in the 5 year comparison for 3B.

He said Wright was number 1.

So what?

This is a Braves blog. If it wasn’t for all of you Mets trolls, we would rarely mention the Mets at all.

There, satisfied?

And by the way, Lew is right on the trade deadline. ANY one could have helped the Mets but they got no one.

Like this off season so far….

By Robert

January 24, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

“When Maddox was on the team, the back-up catcher caught Maddox not Javy.

This is the way Bobby likes to handle his catchers.”

Maddux didnt use Javy because he didnt like the way he caught a game. He basically didnt think Javy offered him a consistant target in the way he wanted it presented.

The relationship between Javy and Maddux (or lack of one) had zero to do with Bobby Cox

Cox wouldnt even begin to understand Maddux’s reasoning.

By Efrim

January 24, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Anders

How many career saves did Joe Nathan have before the Twins traded for him? Not many. Less than 13. I think that turned out all right for them. Soriano will be more than fine. How many saves did Bob Wickman have? If you are as dominant as Soriano has been the last two seasons, sooner or later you’re going to get a shot to close full time.

By Anders

January 24, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Lew

Honestly I don’t remember but I only started blogging here right about the deadline. I do take your word though.

What pitcher should they have acquired? My recollection is that there wasn’t anyone available?

Alou came back and had his 30 game hitting streak. Omar’s faith in him paid off. Alou was the one shining light in the second half. What they didn’t plan for nor could you was Chavez and Alou going down. They fully expect Alou to miss some time.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 24, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

BB Fan , here is an excerpt from an ESPN article :

Some of sport’s most creative and crafty thinking has gone into boosting home-field advantage. A retired Metrodome building superintendent admitted in 2003 that he used to turn on air-conditioning fans behind home plate in the bottom of late innings of close games, giving the Twins’ fly balls more carry. The superintendent, Dick Ericson, said the phantom wind was blowing out when Kirby Puckett hit an 11th-inning home run to beat the Atlanta Braves in Game 6 of the 1991 World Series.

The Twins have denied any knowledge of this — of course.

In Game 2 of the ‘91 World Series, Kent Hrbek blatantly pulls Ron Gant off first base and applies the tag, while first base umpire Vince McMahon calls Gant out. Hrbek, with his back to the ump, used an elegant maneuver involving his hip, thigh and glove to get sufficient leverage to pull Gant off, making it appear to the ump behind him that Gant’s momentum carried him off, but making his intentions obvious to viewers who got a perfect angle from the third base line camera.

The cheat proved costly for the Braves, who lost the game by one run and lost the series in seven games.

Of course , what is lost in translation is the fact that the Twins teach their players to play hard , aggressive baseball.

Hrbek did what he was taught to , Knoblauch deeking Lonnie Smith off second is another example of this. It’s the Twins way , like it or not.

By i can't take it anymore

January 24, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

thanks david. I hope it goes well. good luck finding a nice place to eat. i would try holiday pizza. they have excelent grape leaves and calzones. vandys has the best bbq by far.

anders,thanks for explaining what it takes to be a closer in the majors. ill take the closer issue out of bed.

By The Evil Genius

January 24, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Finally, the time had arrived. Bobby Cox took over as Braves manager in 1980 and moved Dale Murphy from catcher and first base to the outfield. Murphy responded immediately by gunning out numerous runners at the plate and being named a NL All-Star. He finished third in the NL with 33 home runs. Dale went on to win two MVP awards and five gold gloves while playing center field for the Braves.

This is just one of the many brilliant moves made by Bobby Cox. It is why Cox is regarded by his peers as one of the best managers of all time and a surefire first ballot Hall of Fame inductee.

By The Evil Genius

January 24, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

What’s harder, winning a World Series or winning your division 14 straight times — Bobby Cox is the only one that’s done both.

By JerseyGil

January 24, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

For all the METS fan in this blog… You going to lose the season the first month of the season….How? Playing 8 Games again the Braves & 6 Games again the Phillis….you will out of constention from the start…Will be difficult to react to that.Not even SANTANA will saved you.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 24, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Braveheart First thing I would do if I owned the Cubs would be to buy a goat and tie him up in the bleachers. ….

By Ricardo

January 24, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Braves sign Soriano to a 2 yr deal today. Anyone know the terms?

By Lew

January 24, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Anders-It’s not a matter of having faith in Moises or the fact he came back strong. If you’d noticed, I’ve said all along that Alou kept you in the race as much as any Met did.

The point was that he missed 75 games. Omar could have taken the initiative to make a stop gap deal with someone to pick up a temporary replacement. You didn’t even have someone as good as Endy Chavez. A replacement for Moises would have helped, but Omar did nothing.

I have no idea what pitcher or what player may have been available that would have made a difference. In the past for the Braves, it’s been such stalwarts as Alejandro Pena and Mike Devereux. You never know. My whole beef with any GM is why didn’t they at least try? Like I said, the Mets played sub .500 for over three months- Plenty of time to do something. I’m quite surprised they didn’t. If I were you, I would be mad as hell. Most Braves fans would be.

By N8

January 24, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Jed

Please ask the “question” again. I looked at your post two more times (and read my response two more times as well).

Which question didn’t I answer. I’ll GLADLY bog down the blog with another epic post, on a topic, that I’m sure everybody is tired of.

Please sir…..enlighten me, for I am blind to your desire.

By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )

January 24, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

David…

Remember on the last blog I asked you about the 2 year deal that I heard Bobby talking about on XM wih Buck and Charley.I messed up the first post and left Soriano’s name out. I did correct it, but you must have not seen it. That is what I meant when I asked you about the 2 year deal that Bobby was talking about… I messed up the post and you thought I was talking about Bobby, but I meant Soriano… Sorry about that.. I might have given you a scoop if I hadnt messed it up…

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 24, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien , any word on the financial terms of Soriano’s new contract ?

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 24, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

DonC - 2 years at $13-14 million??? no way. i’d say 2 years at $7-8.5 million, tops.

By Shaun

January 24, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Robert, maybe if you had a clue you’d realize that the Jim Rice post was an excerpt from a piece on another website. And I actually agree that Rice isn’t a HOFer. And if you paid attention at all, you would know that I’m that last person who would rely on RBI to judge a player’s value and abilities. But I suppose you are busy coming up with bogus arguments to support that Bobby Cox is the worst manager of all time to realize that I actually agree with you on this.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 24, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

A reduction in McCann”s playing time is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as he is getting 3 out of every five starts I think it would allow for him to actually play better for a longer period of time. Catching is tough on any player.Like I said, I think a lot of what happens depends on Javy.

McCann does not have to worry about Javy taking his position away from him like he did with Salty. It is a totally different circumstance.

flange Unless Pena has a totally outstanding spring, I would predict that he will be traded for some lower level talent who still have options. There are several on the Braves roster in this position. They will not clear waivers but they are blocked by guys already in Atlanta. Scot Thorman and Blaine Boyer are in the same boat.

Atlanta might keep one of them but not all three and a team like the Marlins, Pirates or Nationals could take a flier on any of them and not risk much.

$50,000 is chump change to MLB now when you have marginal guys signing contracts for $1 million or middle relievers signing for 5 and 6 Mil.

By Braveheart

January 24, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Gil, I agree about McCann. 130 games of McCann playing 4 out of 5 days will keep him fresher for those games and will be better than 130 games of McCann where he is dog tired and has to spend a week or two on the DL because he is trying to gut it out everyday.

By PA Bravefan

January 24, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Soriano’s deal is reported as 2.4 mill in’08 and 6.1 mill in ‘09. He got 500K signing bonus. I think this is a great deal!!! I agree with earlier posts, GET FRENCHY DONE NOW!! He won’t get what Tulo got, because Tolu won ROY. I would say between he and McCann. He deserves more than McCann in my opinion because he will play everyday and his defense is far superior based on his position. What do you think DOB?

By Braveheart

January 24, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Braint I thought History of Violence was a better movie than Eastern Promises but I like Eastern Promises more than History of Violence, if that makes any sense. Viggo’s masterful performance and that glimpse of the Russian underworld left me more wowed more than I was with History of Violence. But, like you, the glimpse was far too brief and left me very frustrated for the reasons you cited (although I don’t want to ruin the movie for people by discussing the specifics of why). They realy could have made a movie with the promise to rival Goodfellas. They instead took the easy way out. The critics love Cronenberg but I have been underwhelmed by him. I can’t tell if his unwillingness to dig deeper into the material he is working with is because he doesn’t trust himself or the audience. I watched the behind the scenes bonus features where he discusses that but I believe his answers to be a copout.

By DAP

January 24, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

PA Bravesfan ryan braun won the ROY award, not tulo. id bet fenchy would get as much as him.

By DonCoburleone

January 24, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

2 year $9mil, NICE! If he produces all year and ends up around the 30-40 save number he would have set himself up for a 4 year, $40mil type contract after this season (or $10 mil per) and we got him for $6 mil next season, great signing…

By BB FAN

January 24, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Anders,

My saying that I hope the Mets do mortgage the future for Santana is no way a cop out. If they give up as much as 5 or 6 players including possibly Ryan Church. At least that’s the latest rumor.

The Mets getting Santana would be good for them this year. It would put in position to make a run at the playoffs…like the Braves and Phillies in the NL East.

Anyway, it is true that the Mets have not developed many good players over the years. However, Fernando Martinez is one that is supposed to be a star. Mulvey, Pelfrey and Humber are not future stars but they are a nice core of young pitchers to fill out the 4 and 5 spots in a rotation. Gomez is questionable, but still a young prospect with potential. The Guerra kid is supposed to be real good as well but he is a few years away. Anyway, trading that much pitching can hurt a franchise.

By trading that much pitching, the Mets will end up having to sign a Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernadez type pitchers for 4 years/ 40 million each.

But that’s about all the Mets have for good young talent. It would be crazy for them to trade all of it to the Twins for Santana. You and I and the rest of the world know that Santana will want 23-25 million per year for at least 5 years, probably 6 or 7.

That is a lot of money for a guy who’s 29 years old and has pitched about 950 innings in the last 4 years including playoffs.

That kind of thought process has gotten Minaya in trouble before. He was the one that gave up Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee for Colon. Look where Washington is now.

By McFann

January 24, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Gil

I don’t think McCann did worry about Salty taking his position away from him. He’s not that kind of guy. But I do agree that a few more days off here and there might be a good thing, especially because it would prob’ly help his production.

PA Bravefan

I would say between he and McCann.

That’s not a sentence, dude.

He deserves more than McCann in my opinion because he will play everyday and his defense is far superior based on his position.

OK, yeah, Francoeur’s defense may be “superior”, but the reason he cann play everyday and McCann can’t is because Francoeur’s position isn’t as physically demanding.

He deserves more money than McCann? Well, I don’t know about that, but I think he’ll get more. Francoeur seems like one of those guys who’s gonna make big dough, partly because he does play everyday. He also gets those clutch hits and whatnot…and I think he and his agent will ask for a lot of money. Yeah, he’ll prob’ly get some kinda deal like Tulo’s if/when he gets a contract.

By BB FAN

January 24, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008),

Thanks. Would you happen to have the link to the ESPN article about the “Home Field Advantage” the Twins received in 1991 WS? A few buddies think I’m making it up so I want to show them the link. Thanks again.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 24, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

I would say between he and McCann.

McFann: That’s not a sentence, dude.

Um, yes it is. A sentence must have a subject and a verb, which it has. “I” is the subject, “say” is the verb.

By Lew

January 24, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

BBFan-That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to tell Anders all along, but he thinks I say it because I hate the Mets (which I do, but that is beside the point). If you have a Farm System like the Braves’ do, you can trade five prospects for a guy like Tex (or Santana as the case may be). When you have a farm system like the Mets have, it’s not such an intelligent proposition. Shortsighted in the extreme-especially after dumping Milledge for not much of anything. What happened to trading him almost straight up for Santana like some Mets’ fans though would happen, I wonder?

By McFann

January 24, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

A sentence must have a subject and a verb, which it has. “I” is the subject, “say” is the verb. Daybed Wagmoe

Yes, but that sentence doesn’t explain anything.

“I would say what?”

True, it has a verb and a subject, but it makes no sense. You are not explaining anything if all you say is, “I would say between he and McCann.”

“Between he and McCann” is the prepositional phrase. You aren’t explaining exactly what you would say. What you would say is “Francoeur deserves more money.”

The sentence should properly be typed, “I would say, between he and McCann, Francoeur deserves more money.” The subject is actually “Francouer”, but that part of the sentence—which could stand alone—was made into its own sentence.

“I would say” could be taken out and it would still work: Between he and McCann, Francoeur deserves more money.

But proper grammar has never been a requirement on a blog, really. We all know what he meant, it just wasn’t typed properly.

By jed

January 24, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

N8—

Just answer the question. Is Air Supply every bit as valid an art form as Bach?

My original post:

“Some music does indeed suck. As does your “music is a subjective experience” theory. By your line of reasoning, there’s no discernible difference in the quality of Bach and Air Supply. Bob Dylan’s “Highway 61 Revisited” is, in your view, no better than an Ace Frehley album.

Would you really like to support such a premise?”

By SNIPER-69

January 24, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

LEW, If I were you I’d be wondering if the braves are going to finish 3rd again. As for your theory about prospects and all, small market teams need to focus more heavily on their farm sytem. Big market teams have the money to spend on free agents. Look at all the small market teams that lose their good players from their farm system to the Yankee’s, Red Sox, Mets ect ect.

By Gsu-Lee

January 24, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks for everything man. We know you are busy but the conversation was helpful and enjoyable. We all appreciated the time you took out of your busy schedule to come see us, plus we are huge fans of the blog and of you. Thanks again, hope to see you again.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 24, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

McFann — when you take it out of context like that, of course it doesn’t make sense. reading it in the post, it does.

By N8

January 24, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Jed

Sorry. Didn’t realize, that I hadn’t answered that one. I surely would have. It’s not like I don’t like to type.

“Is Air Supply every bit as valid an art form as Bach?”

You’re asking a question that isn’t even along the topic at hand? Is Air supply “valid” at all?

It brings back memories of roller rink “puppy love”, that’s valid for something, isn’t it?

Of course Air Supply shouldn’t be held in the same regards as Bach.

My question, is should ANYBODY refer to Air Supply as “sucking”?

Last time I checked, they could all sing. They could play their instruments just fine. And a whole bunch of people at one point or another LIKED THEM.

I don’t happen to be one of them. But you can try and ask the questions from any angle you want by using “trick” words like valid, or important, and you’re NOT gonna get me to say they suck.

As for Bach or any other classical music, it’s never been my bag. The closes I’ve gotten to getting into it, are some of the shred guitarists of the 80’s (Yngwie Malmsteen, Vinnie Moore, if I recall correctly EVH, was classically trained on piano, so does that count as me being classically influenced?).

So am I gonna be naive enough to knock it because it’s not my thing. That would make me look pretty ignorant, huh? It’s not gonna happen.

So unfortunately, I’d probably listen to Air Supply before I would listen to Bach. That doesn’t mean I like either of them. Give me some Hendrix or Clapton any day of the week over either of them. (whispering…but they still don’t suck)

Last time I checked their are 12 notes to music. Guitars (until recent years) all had 6 strings. You guys keep talking about artists being original, and innovative and one of a kind.

Really? With 12 notes I think it’s all been done musically WAY before even the Beatles or Elvis (or any other artist that you want to call “ground breaking”.

You wanna know what’s “changed” to make these artists appear to be original?

The technology. That’s what changed.

Now some guys harnessed that equipment like nobody DURING THEIR TIME did, but make no mistake about it, somebody else would have done it.

Don’t take this for me NOT appreciating those artists that everybody consider ground breaking.

But think about it. Before the organ’s came around what did people use? It’s called a piano.

Distortion and overdriven guitars? You can pretty much go back to about the time that Marshall created his first amp. Had he made those Amps 20 years earlier, somebody else would be considered “ground breaking” on the electric guitar.

Oh, speaking of electric guitars? See where I’m going?

How about Trent Reznor (if you’d choose to stay a little more current). I wonder how his “sound” would have been in 1960?

It’s like that song “Believe” by Cher. Not my cup of tea, but how could you have been alive a few years ago and NOT heard it. Anyhow, some engineer decided (probably by accident), that if you use the pitch correction effect you get that little warble effect on the chorus.

Next thing you know, EVERYBODY and their mother are using it. We even did it on one song in the studio.

Is Cher “innovative” for that?

I don’t often search for “originality” when I’m looking for new bands. Since a lot of the bands that I like aren’t making records (or ones I care for), anymore, I often look for younger newer bands that remind me of what I like (or used to like). But that’s just me.

But ultimately, since I like loud, overdriven guitar tones, there are only so many things that can be done differently with the damn thing. So my next criteria, are the vocals. 3rd on my list is lyrical content.

I could care less if the band is singing about calk snot. If it’s being sung well, and played well, and it moves me. Sing about doin’ a donkey in Mexico, for all I’m concerned.

That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate strong lyrics, or concept albums. It just doesn’t dictate WHY it is that I listen to something.

Who really decides what’s relevant or valid? Is it the same people that gave Milli Vanilli Grammy’s???

Thank you very much, but I’ll form my own opinion.

By flange1

January 24, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Gil,

Thanks for your thoughts! I happen to agree, but you have seen Boyer and B. Pena and I have just read about them.

I also agree that giving McCann more than 1 night a week off might benefit both McCann and the backup. In fact, it would benefit McCann more in the short and long run.

McFann,

Sorry dudette, but after Salty came up, McCann played poorly for awhile. Yea, he was hurt. But, unlike you, I can’t read his mind. I think he IS the kind of guy that would worry about the Braves bringing up Salty. He WORRIES more about helping the team than himself, and if the team brings up a new hotshot catcher, he WILL worry, just because he that is his nature.

So sorry, I disagree. You harp on McCann so much that I forget how great a guy he really seems to be. You need to chill out a bit.

Robert,

Sorry sir, I choose not o respond to you.

Jed,

You are totally missing the point….

By N8

January 24, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Flange1

Thanks.

By uga-brave

January 24, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

still would like to see the braves make tex priority #1. i know every one wants to see the braves wrap up francoeur but they still have a couple or years.

as far as contracts go mccann and tultowiski play positions where great offensive players are at a premium.

francouer, at the present moment is a good offensive player. i fully expect the braves to lock him up, but i dont think he should get any more money the b’maac.

fact is francoeur could go either way this year. the braves love everything about francoeur, they want him to be the next face of the braves. all he has to do is put it all to together. easier said then done, we all know the effort will be there but that swing sure does have some holes.

By uga-brave

January 24, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

n8,

your air supply comment about going roller skating back in the day was right on.

dude do you remember during couple skate if you could not skate backwards you were a loser. there was only so much pat benatar and blondie a 7th grader could listen to.

By Thrillhouse44

January 24, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Never thought I’d be blogging about roller skating on here, but I actually have something to contribute: I went roller skating last weekend for my niece’s birthday, and that is a LOT harder than I remember! (Oh well, maybe I didn’t contribute a lot, but it’s all I got.)

By uga-brave

January 24, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

the best roller skating band of all time ac/dc. best song- shook me all night long.

remember when the thing you looked forward to the most was going roller skating on friday nights when you were a kid. if you were really lucky you would get to stay for late skate.

By Cleanuphitter16

January 24, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

In case anyone missed it, final payroll numbers for last year. We are officially middle-of-the-pack. Mets are no suprise, but the Phillies kind of surprised me. (Source: ESPN.com)

1. New York Yankees $218,311,394

2. Boston Red Sox $155,402,595

3. Los Angeles Dodgers $125,581,316

4. New York Mets $120,927,727

1. Chicago Cubs $115,943,318

2. Seattle Mariners $114,367,309

3. Los Angeles Angels $111,038,577

8. Philadelphia Phillies $101,823,122

1. San Francisco Giants $101,539,796

2. Chicago White Sox $100,189,832

3. St. Louis Cardinals $99,329,875

4. Detroit Tigers $98,519,780

5. Houston Astros $97,213,020

6. Baltimore Orioles $95,269,977

7. Toronto Blue Jays $95,069,351

16. Atlanta Braves $92,634,468

1. Texas Rangers $78,923,435

2. Oakland Athletics $78,482,125

3. Cincinnati Reds $73,072,635

4. Milwaukee Brewers $72,751,641

5. Minnesota Twins $71,938,505

6. Cleveland Indians $71,887,236

7. Arizona Diamondbacks $70,448,367

8. San Diego Padres $67,490,967

9. Kansas City Royals $62,264,855

10. Colorado Rockies $61,348,681

11. Pittsburgh Pirates $51,360,907

12. Washington Nationals
    $43,254,278

13. Florida Marlins $33,072,472

14. Tampa Bay Devil Rays $31,817,020

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Hey folks, I trust you saw the financial figures in the story I posted earlier tonight. I was literally on the way out the door when the announcement was made, and ended up scrambling to get the dollar figure and write a story before I had to speed downtown to talk to the GSU students.

Anyway, just got home after doing that thing and going to the gym, etc.

Yes, it was $2.4 mill this year (that was exactly what Braves proposed when figures were arb figures were exchanged last week, when Soriano asked for $3.4 mill) and $6.1 mill in 2009, with half-mill signing bonus.

If Soriano has a good year, that $6.1 in 2009 will be a bargain price well below that of an accomplished free-agent closer. In this market, that’s actually about what top setup men are getting.

But Soriano gets security in exchange for giving up a bit of potential salary in ‘09. Good deal for both sides.

And if for some reason the Braves decided to go with Gonzalez as closer in ‘09, they’d have him at a much cheaper price than Soriano, probably pay the two of them a combined $10-11 mill, still less than almost every contending team will pay its closer and top setup man. So either way it’d work.

But if Soriano is great in the closer role this season, I don’t see them moving him from it in ‘09.

By David O'Brien

January 24, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

GSU-Lee, you’re welcome. Good group of folks up there. Was that a journalism class, club, or what?

By N8

January 24, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Cleanuphitter16

Even though the Red Sox won the WS, with the 2nd highest payroll, it just goes to show with how competitive many of the low-to-mid range payrolls were, that it’s WHO you spend the money on, not how much of it you spend.

Of course spending more gives you a better “shot” or better odds at winning (in the same fashion that buying 4 bingo tickets or playing 3 hands of black jack does), but in the end, I’m not sure if the Red Sox got good “return” on their investment, since that place is always sold out - like Wrigley - but if winning the WS was their legitimate goal at the beginning of the year, then they succeeded.

Don’t forget to “add” the 30 million the Sox paid just to “negotiate” with Dice K. Or is that already calculated into their number?

By uga-brave

January 24, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

dob,

why do i get this picture of you standing up in that classroom like dean wormer from ANIMAL HOUSE.

By Zac

January 24, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Genius move. Having a cheap, club controlled, dominant bullpen consisting of Soriano, Gonzalez, and Moylan locked in through ‘09 at the least gives us a formidable pen at low cost, regardless of the other interchangable parts (which can all be cheap.) Genius reworking of a crucial section of the team that two years ago was a disaster.

By Zac

January 24, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Genius move. Having a cheap, club controlled, dominant bullpen consisting of Soriano, Gonzalez, and Moylan locked in through ‘09 at the least gives us a formidable pen at low cost, regardless of the other interchangable parts (which can all be cheap.) Genius reworking of a crucial section of the team that two years ago was a disaster.

By Steve McP

January 24, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Sorry UGA but best roller skating song was Gloria Gaynor by a mile!

How was DOB in his address to the university by the way?

By uga-brave

January 25, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

as a fan why should we care how much money our team spends. thats not our concern. for years we were one of the top spenders, and we loved it. now that the shoe is on the other foot, we complain about how much the other guys spend.

there is no coincidence that the braves slip into mediocrity coincides with their slip into the middle of the payroll pack.

for us to scorn the yankees or the red sox is wrong. they are operating under the same system as everyone else. scorn the system dont scorn the teams that want to win championships.

we were once those guys. face the facts in order to win, AND WIN CONSISTENTLY, in the current system you must have 100% commited ownership.

last time i checked ownership did not pass on their thrifty ways in the beer or concession lines.

By uga-brave

January 25, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

DOB’S worst fear looking into the crowd and seeing a co-ed dressed up like a certain catcher with his or her hand raised.

By N8

January 25, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

uga

I had another post that disappeared (apparently I didn’t hit post again, and backed out of the screen), in response to your roller skating comment.

I listed some of the “classic” roller rink bands:

REO speedwagon, Bryan Adams, Madonna, Billy Squier, Styx, Men at Work, Huey Lewis, The Police, and of course you couldn’t go skating without your Kenny Loggins fix. Nothing like a Triple shot of rock like Footloose, Danger Zone and I’m Alright back to back to back!! Maybe a little Eddie Grant’s Electric Avenue would really get the girls “revved up”! LOL! Yikes. Or maybe your girl like to speed skate to Eye of the Tiger. If Air Supply was the couples skate theme band, then Chicago (or Peter Cetera as a solo artist), was a close second.

The AC/DC wasn’t played to much other than Shook me All Night Long. But we sure had our share of Michael Jackson.

I was horrible at skating backwards.

I had commented that the thing I remember most of those times…..was the smell. Nothing quite like the odor that occurs when a couple of hundred people take their already stinky shoes off and set them ALL on the same wall as everybody else, then when it’s all done, taking off sweaty skates.

Waft it in, you can almost taste it. :-)

By N8

January 25, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

uga (if I may call you uga for short?)

Wow. That was way too formal.

I agree with your “consistently” portion of the needing to spend to compete, and I get that the Rockies got their azzes handed to them in the WS, but their payroll was about half of what the Red Sox was.

Now, getting back to the consistency, the Red Sox are more than likely gonna continue to make the post-season over the next few years, while the Rockies will have to up their payroll to keep making it back.

But for the first couple of years, a team only needs to be good….not expensive. The expensive comes AFTER being good for a few years, and the individual, cashing in on that success. See the Braves payroll from 1991 ($20,423,500) to where it was in 1995 ($45,199,000).

It more than doubled in those 5 seasons. Only three major additions we brought in (Maddux 93, McGriff 93, Grissom 95). The rest of that payroll jump, was rewarding their own players.

So you’re dead on, that an owner has to be fully committed to continue to win. But a smart GM along with good coaching/managing could give you a nice 3-4 year window to make a run.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 25, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

BB fan , just Google : Dick Ericson , then scroll down the list until you see the article titled , ESPN : Ericson admits to adjusting ventilation system.

By uga-brave

January 25, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

n8,

who could forget ASIA, LOVERBOY, and JOURNEY. all had some great cheesy skate songs.

considering this is my first january on the blog, baseball better hurry. i think we all have “TOO MUCH TIME ON OUR HANDS.”

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 25, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

Scott Thorman and Pete Orr in the news.

http://news.therecord.com/Sports/article/297366

By uga-brave

January 25, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

N8,

you know the old saying ” it is worse to have had money and lost it then never of had money at all.”

as braves fans i think we can relate to that. it is tough to go backwards when you are used to the good life.

the braves are doing the best they can with the hand they are being dealt. we are better then competitive, but to really compete now we have to catch lightning in a bottle.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

uga-brave, humorous posts about the GSU thing. Especially the co-ed dressed like McCann.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Will be at the Selmanaires show Saturday at the Earl. Another strong act on the bill as well, Anna Kramer and the Lost Cause. As our AJC music writer Shane Harrison put it, “if Patsy Cline were a punk, she’d be Anna Kramer.” If that doesn’t do it for ya … well, come on. That’s good stuff.

By Nolie

January 25, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

This is just one of the many brilliant moves made by Bobby Cox. It is why Cox is regarded by his peers as one of the best managers of all time and a surefire first ballot Hall of Fame inducteeeVIL

It always amuses me when a fan is arrogant enough to think that he knows more about the game than the thousands who actually make their living playing and running it. 99% of the player and execs who really know what it takes to be successful love Cox, but a few hindsight-luvin’ armchair-ridin’ know-it-alls think they know more than the pros. And they are all sooo vocal about it too. Takes all kinds I guess. LOL

By texmex

January 25, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this

so is tex buying a home in Atlanta a good sign?

By GSU-Paul

January 25, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this

It was the SPJ (Society for Professional Journalists) meeting. Thanks a lot for coming to GSU. We all appreciated your time. DOB wasn’t so much Dean Wormer but more like a visiting Delta House alum. As for the McCann Coed thing…that’s a different meeting all together.

By jed

January 25, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this

N8—

I hear what you’re saying, but your argument strikes me as thoroughly glib. I did however enjoy your views on technology’s affect on music.

By Metropolitan Man

January 25, 2008 6:22 AM | Link to this

Ok, this has now come down to the battle of who can exploit the other teams weaknesses the best. Here is the best assesment of your weakness because DOB, Mr. Lew, and the braves fans insist the METS are weaker. Of course we have rehashed this over and over but its just so much fun bashing the braves. So without further ado, here is what you dont see but your rival fans do:

1st of all you guys should be broke now after giving Tex 12 mill, and Soriano 9mil. What happended, did the brave bloggers chip in??? Now you guys should be good in the same position at 1st base that the METS are in. A guy in contract year who is gonna put up monster numbers for a big payday. But guess what, Delgado is in the same boat and is playing for a contract. Its a wash, both guys should have monster years.

2nd base- Kelly Johnson the “left fielder” has made strides but those errors last year were so costly that if he didnt gain confidence over the winter expect the same breakdown in crucuial situations. Now Castillo is an All Star vet with no fear and is here only to make double plays and bunt Reyes into scoring position. Not much of a demand for the”vet” and he has done it for many years. Not happy Minaya gave him 4 years but thats 1 less position to worry about and with all the 2b that Lew has pointed out, we are good there.

3base- Ok, we know Chipper wont play the entire season, nothing dillusional about that. History tells me he will play hurt this year only to hurt the braves in the proccess trying to silence the critics that he doenst play hurt…mainly Smoltz. Those numbers maybe there towards the end, but you will miss him sometime during the season, its inevitable. We have D. Wright…nuff said.

Rfield- Frechy should be the back up power to Tex when Chumper gets hurt. I do beleive Frenchy will make positive strides and be a thorn in the side of pitchers this year so thats 1 thing you guys got going for you now and the long run. Church is more like our Kotsay, a stop gap until we pay a player or Gomez or Martinez are ready barring a trade.

Cfield- Kotsay isnt scaring anyone. I’d rather deal with him than A. Jones any day because you never knew when A. Jones was gonna burn you but Kotsay probably never will.

Lfield- Alou and Chavez will destroy any platoon numbers you can put in that position. Diaz is a good guy but not an everyday player so who helps him keep that postiton with productive numbers???? And how long can you guys go without an everyday left fielder. Send Chumper back there, it was fun to watch.

C-Mcann is in decline and doesnt seem to have much confidence. Not sure if he can duplicate his all star numbers but his clutchness declined and the injurie bug has his address. He is a grinder and will play hurt unlike others, but can he see??? Now Snieder is no Piazza, or Lo Duca for that matter but we have to wait and see if all the good things they say about his dealing with pitchers, throwing guys out, and calling a game are his strengths. Pitching in the next segment!!!

By Metropolitan Man

January 25, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this

Pedro V Smoltz. Homers pick your players, this has to be soLved on the field because us METS fans have as much confidence in Pedro (hurt or not) as you do in Smoltz.

Hudson V Maine- 1 young stud blossiming and 1 former stud who cant completely figure out the NL after dominating the AL, go figure. He is no slouch but he is not the guy he was in Oaktown and you know it. Is it because both team ball caps say “A” the braves and atheletics contiue to do business? Anyway Hudson is your most solid starter. Maine will keep up with him though.

Perez(braves slayer)V Glavine-Well Galvine is due for a rude awakening. You now have to face the team you helped sink on the last day. Good luck because those METS batters are gonna tear him a new one while the rest of the league follows suit. The junkballs will end up over the fence all year. The defense up the middle will make him wish he retired instead of trying to save face with the braves fans. Embrace that wishy washy, 65mph fastball, finally over the hill bum and keep him there.

EL Duque V C. James. James is to young and hasnt even log nearly as many miles as Duques arm and its already tired. Yeah expect big things from him…after he misses starts from having a dead arm. Is he still not reading scouting reports on players or too busy putting windows up in Frenchy’s new house???

Pelfry V the rest. This is a wash again but Pelfry reminds me of the young Tigers pitchersform a few years back. Have a horrible season, get it together, and then pitch to your potential. Your back end guys have alot to be desired too so once again this will probably decide who goes the furthest. So enjoy the read bloggers, I meant every word and now the septic tank is empty…..for now!!!

LETS GO METS & BIG BLUE!!!!

By Vinny Vegas

January 25, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Oh yes the mighty Mets……. They really came together as a solid team at the end of the season last year. Mets fans are under the impression that this team is automatic every year for the playoffs. They try to link them to the Red Sox and Yankees as a dominant team everyone fears. The truth is the Mets don’t even belong in the same sentence as those 2 teams. Guess last year was a fluke for them towards the end. I would say it is more like the beginning to a ending.

One can sit here all day, debate and compare position players. Bet against the Mets; the true competition will be the Braves and Phillies for the N.L. East. All Mets fans can hope for is for there team to be an occasional spoiler against somebody.

By wiki

January 25, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

*By Metropolitan Man

Pedro V Smoltz. Homers pick your players, this has to be soLved on the field because us METS fans have as much confidence in Pedro (hurt or not) as you do in Smoltz.

Hudson V Maine- 1 young stud blossiming and 1 former stud who cant completely figure out the NL after dominating the AL, go figure. He is no slouch but he is not the guy he was in Oaktown and you know it. Is it because both team ball caps say “A” the braves and atheletics contiue to do business? Anyway Hudson is your most solid starter. Maine will keep up with him though.

Perez(braves slayer)V Glavine-Well Galvine is due for a rude awakening. You now have to face the team you helped sink on the last day. Good luck because those METS batters are gonna tear him a new one while the rest of the league follows suit. The junkballs will end up over the fence all year. The defense up the middle will make him wish he retired instead of trying to save face with the braves fans. Embrace that wishy washy, 65mph fastball, finally over the hill bum and keep him there.

EL Duque V C. James. James is to young and hasnt even log nearly as many miles as Duques arm and its already tired. Yeah expect big things from him…after he misses starts from having a dead arm. Is he still not reading scouting reports on players or too busy putting windows up in Frenchy’s new house???

Pelfry V the rest. This is a wash again but Pelfry reminds me of the young Tigers pitchersform a few years back. Have a horrible season, get it together, and then pitch to your potential. Your back end guys have alot to be desired too so once again this will probably decide who goes the furthest. So enjoy the read bloggers, I meant every word and now the septic tank is empty…..for now!!!

LETS GO METS & BIG BLUE!!!!*

What’s the point here? You can do better that this convoluted, shoot from the hip presentation…..as if these ould be the exact matchups every time the teams face each other this year.

-According to your “analysis” the Braves’ starters are either too young or too old or past or ahead of their prime when it’s the Mets’ staff that has a larger variance in SP’s age.

-Pelphrey (24) is not too young while James (26) is? By the way, Pelphrey was 3-8, 5.57 last year vs James 11-10, 4.24. -Why isn’t El Duque due for a “rude awakening”? He and Glavine are both 41. If Glavine can give close to 200 IP, he will have been a welcome addition here and the Mets’ loss. The last time Duque pitched over 163 innings was in 2000. The last time Glavine pitched under 163 innings was in 1987.

nuff said

By Thrillhouse44

January 25, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

Metro Man, do you have Beerios every Friday morning?

By Anders

January 25, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

DOB

*Yes, it was $2.4 mill this year (that was exactly what Braves proposed when figures were arb figures were exchanged last week, when Soriano asked for $3.4 mill) and $6.1 mill in 2009, with half-mill signing bonus.

If Soriano has a good year, that $6.1 in 2009 will be a bargain price well below that of an accomplished free-agent closer. In this market, that’s actually about what top setup men are getting*

This is a home run by Frank Wren. Soriano should fire his agent. He didn’t get a nickel more for this season and settled well below closer rates for 2009 with free agency pending!! That says one of two things. Soriano and his agent don’t have the confidence in him you and many bloggers on here have and he’s taking the money and running or his agent is an idiot. You better hope for the latter because the former doesn’t bode well.

No other way to paint this deal from Soriano’s side.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Soriano and his agent don�t have the confidence in him you and many bloggers on here have and he�s taking the money and running or his agent is an idiot. You better hope for the latter because the former doesn�t bode well.

No other way to paint this deal from Soriano�s side.Anders

Hey, bitter fella, maybe it says one or a couple other things: 1. The guy is from the Dominican, never had much money, and wanted at least one big payday (keep in mind, we’re talking about 9 MILLION dollars) to assure security for his family in case of injury; and 2. The guy loves playing for the Braves and the overall environment around the club, in addition to its proximity to the Dominican — as compared to, say, Seattle, where he played previously.

But then, you know it all, Anders, so maybe it’s just as you say.

Perhaps you believe the Braves and their fans should feel better if the team was paying its closer what the Mets are paying theirs?

Seriously, can you ever stop being a pest to Braves fans on a Braves blog? Maybe go engage in discussions with other Mets fans on the multiple blogs devoted to that club?

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Texmex, while Teixeira buying a home in Atlanta certainly can only be a good thing in terms of the Braves’ chances of signing him, it should be noted he was already looking for a home in the area before he was traded to the Braves. Because his wife’s from Georgia and he loved his time at Georgia Tech, etc.

Again, it can’t hurt Braves’ chances, but whether or not he signs, I think he planned to get a house here. As you know, with the deal he’s gonna get, he can afford to have a couple of homes in a couple of places. Or a dozen homes, for that matter.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Lfield- Alou and Chavez will destroy any platoon numbers you can put in that position. Diaz is a good guy but not an everyday player so who helps him keep that postiton with productive numbers???? And how long can you guys go without an everyday left fielder. Send Chumper back there, it was fun to watch.

Matt Diaz - .338/.368/.497, 124 OPS+ in 384 PA in 2007.

.320/.357/.473, 115 OPS+ career.

Of all players with at least 300 PA, Diaz had the 7th-highest AVG in all of baseball last season and the 10th-highest OPS of all LF, sandwiched between Manny Ramirez and Hideki Matsui.

By Jobu

January 25, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Anders,

Even though the team looks at it as $2.4 mil in 2008, it´s actually $2.9 mil when you factor in the signing bonus of 500k so they basically settled at the midpoint for the first year. The main thing from Soriano´s side, as is with many young guys, $6.1 mil is a nice security blanket. For a guy that hasn´t made half that in his career, to get that guaranteed money is a big deal. Especially for a guy from the Dominican Republic. This gives him 2 years to establish himself as a top closer, and he´ll become a free agent again at the age of 30. I think he´ll be fine.

By TLJ

January 25, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Metro-Man, I don’t mind mets fans being supportive of the mets and making statements in support of the mets. However, when you make irrational statements like the one you made today you lose whatever credibility you had.

C - McCann v Snyder, McCann is a 24 year old two time allstar and there are 29 other teams who would love to have him (yes even your mets). Snyder is 30 something and a journeyman catcher. Obvious choice McMann. If you disagree with this ask the 30 GM’s who they want as their regular catcher. Snyder would make a good back up catcher for the braves.

1B - The only things in common with these two is they both play 1B and are in a contract year. Tex is 28 year old and plays gold glove defense. He is in the prime of his career. Delgado is 35 or 36 and plays 1B only because there is no DH in the NL. His best years are behind him. Again if you disagree with this ask the 30 GM’s who they want playing 1B for them. The tally will 30 to 0 in Tex favor.

2B - This is a little more difficult, KJ is 26 years old and very good offensively. He is still learning to play 2B but his defense is adequate. Castillo is 33 or 34, a singles hitter who is able to steal a few bases. He is a better defensive player than Johnson.
Problem is his best years are behind him. He will continue to lose range at 2B while KJ will continue to improve. It depends on if you want an aging defense player or young offense player who will continue to improve his defense. I believe most GM’s will chose KJ but it will depend on that particular teams needs.

SS - Reyes v Escobar. No comparison Reyes is the better player.

3B - Wright v Chipper. Both players are excellent offense players and good on defense. Wright is younger and will steal more bases. Chipper has had injuries problems but still posted numbers similar to Wright. Wright gets the nod at 3B.

LF - Alou v Diaz - This is another challenging position. Both are excellent offensive players and adequate on defense. Diaz is 28 or 29 while Alou is 41 or 42. Alou has more power but like chipper has had problems with injuries and that has to be taken into consideration.

The other half of the platoon is Chavez vs B Jones. Chavez is 30 something, adequate on offense with little to no power. Defense is above average and his claim to fame was the catch made in the playoffs. What you see is what you get.
Brandon Jones is 24 good offense with power. He has average defense. He is a rookie and therefore difficult to project. Bill James who is the guru of projections has projected Jones in a platoon situation (250 AB) in 2008 will hit 284, 9 HR and 40 to 50 RBI. This is probably a draw but I lean toward the Braves platoon due to the age factor and potential of Jones.

CF - Beltran v Kotsay, no comparison Beltran is the better CF.

RF - Frenchy v Church, no comparison Frenchy is the better RF.

SP - Martinez v Smoltz - Both have had excellent careers and appear to bound for the HOF.
However for comparison purposes for 2008 you have to go with Smoltz. He returned to the rotation two years ago and has been outstanding. Pedro has pitched 70 innings after missing almost 2 years.

SP Maine v Hudson, another interesting comparison. Before 2007 Maine appeared to be an average SP but had a very good year in 2007. While you indicate Hudson has had difficulty in the NL, his worst year is similar to Maine’s break out season last year. Maine has only had one good season, I will have to go with Hudson for 2008 but I so like Maine.

SP - Perez v Glavine - Perez is a young pitcher (25) with good potential but has really been up and down. The mets were not sure what they would get from him when he took the field It seems like the only team he could beat last year was the Braves. I personally like Perez and believe he has the ability to win 12 to 15 games. Glavine is 42 and considered to be Mr reliable, you know what you are going to get. He will pitch close to 200 innings, have an ERA in the 4.00 range and will allow more hits than innings pitched. He will also win 12 to 14 gamers. While I like Perez’slong range potential I believe this is a wash for 2008.

SP - James v Hernandez, you have a 24 year old lefty who has won 22 games in 2 years. There is no reason to expect he will not win at least 11 games this year. With lavine as a tutor that number could rise to the 15 range. Hernandez is 44 (who really knows) and has a history of injury problems.
The mets simply do not know what they are going to get from him. He may win 12 to 14 games or he could be on the DL for most of the season. Let’s face it he may not even be on the teams 25 man roster when spring training concludes.
James is easily the choice here.

SP - Pelfrey v whoever - based on Pelfrey’s record last year who ever will be the better choice. My guess is JJ (pitcher we received from Detroit) will be the 5 th starter. Jim LeLand stated if he had not been traded he would have been in their rotation in 2008. He has the upside to be a # 2 pitcher in a rotation (probably not this year) and based on the experts projections has more upside than John Maine. This is probably a wash but based on what LeLand said I will go with JJ as the 5 the starter.

In reviewing my post I noticed the Mets are really an old team and have little dept in the farm system. The Braves on the other hand have a blend of young talented players already in the majors being tutored by a number of HOF players and have plenty of dept in the minors.

Having said all of this there is no way of telling which team will have the better season. 162 games is a long time, injuries will occurr and the scheduke could affect a teams performance.

The main reason for this post is to let Metro man know his comparison of the two teams were completely off base.
Don’t take my word for it, ask the experts.

By TI

January 25, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

What is Mike Hampton’s status? Is the hamstring recovering, what’s going on with that?

By BB FAN

January 25, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Anders,

There are many players that don’t always go for the most money. If a player enjoys playing for a certain team then they will take a little less money to stay there.

Your problem is that you are used to the Mets paying top dollar to entice the player to play for them. Before signing the contract with the Mets, Beltran begged the Yankees to sign him for 20 million less than what the Mets were giving him.

The Mets had to guarantee 4 years to convince Pedro to sign. No other team was offering more than 3 years guaranteed. Look how much he has pitched in the last two years and you see why smart teams weren’t willing to go more than 3 years.

For the last 20 years, the Mets have thought they can just buy their team. Just throw more money at players and win. Obviously, it has not worked for them.

By McFann

January 25, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

F1—

I understand what you mean. It makes more sense when you put it that way.

MetMan—

“On the decline”? Oh, please. And where did you dig up that junk that he doesn’t have much confidence?

Can he see?

Yes, he cann dummy. It’s called Lasic!!

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Couple of stats you folks might not know about Soriano from last season”

Road: 35 games, 1.91 ERA, .155 opp average, .210 opp OBP. (He had 4.19 ERA and .208 opp avg at home.)

vs. Lefties:.164 (20-for-122)

Scor pos w/ 2 outs: .150 (3-for-20, and all three hits were HOMERS)

Close-and-late: .163 (26-for-160) with 9 walks, 48 strikeouts, .207 OBP, .294 slugging.

In past two seasons combined: He’s averaged 9.2 strikeouts per nine innings, and his .192 opp average ranks fifth among all major league relievers. His .254 opp OBP in that period ranks sixth.

Here’s Frank Wren on having Soriano and almost every other Braves reliever under contractual control at least through 2009:

“We don’t lose anyone from our bullpen going forward to next year [‘09]. So we should be starting to gain some depth, and we’ve got some young guys coming through the minors who should add to that depth.

“The bullpen market is a difficult market. [So] having internal choices is real good.”

By PatioDaddio

January 25, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Even though the team looks at it as $2.4 mil in 2008, it´s actually $2.9 mil when you factor in the signing bonus of 500k so they basically settled at the midpoint for the first year.

Actually it is $2.65 mil in 2008 because bonuses are spread out through the life of the contract.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Jobu, good point about it being 2.9 mill with the signing bonus, midway point of their swapped arb figures.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

TI, as I wrote here during FanFest, I asked Wren about Hampton and he said it’s going just as expected and he should be fine for spring training. I’ll find out if he’s going to be at McDowell’s pitching camp that begins Feb. 1. But other than that, really nothing new to report. It’s a hamstring pull, not an arm injury that’s being monitored closely at every turn. He’s home in Arizona, not here.

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

For all of this talk about Moises Alou and leftfield:

Mets, LF, 2007: .306. .357, .458, .815 OPS

Braves, LF, 2007: .291, .350, .439, .789 OPS

Mets, LF, 2007: 87 runs, 191 hits, 35 doubles, 3 triples, 18 homers, 88 RBIs, 48 walks, 16 stolen bases. 286 total bases

Braves, LF, 2007: 87 runs, 184 hits, 38 doubles, 7 triples, 14 homers, 70 RBIs, 52 walks, 18 stolen bases, 278 total bases

That’s with Willie freaking Harris and Ryan Langerhans taking up so many at bats out there in left. Brandon Jones figures to be better than both.

Leftfield once again figures to be even next season.

By Josh H

January 25, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man:

Hudson did figure it out last year. 3.33 ERA, 16-10 (with at least 4 blown saves by Wickman). Granted, he had a .261 allowed average vs. Maine’s very impressive .230, but Hudson only allowed 10 home runs (compared to Maine’s 25). I like a pitcher where the opposing team is going to have to string a few hits together to beat him.

Not knocking Maine. The Mets really have something there.

Pedro vs. Smoltz. I can’t deny that Pedro is perhaps the most dominant pitcher in baseball, when healthy. But he is a question mark at this point. Smoltz will need some breaks yes,

We can also throw Hampton in this mix. Don’t know if you saw the video of him pitching in the Mexican League, but his stuff is still there. If he can stay healthy he’ll be the most dominant 4 pitcher on any team. If not, well we have 4 pitchers ready for the Majors, two of which (Jair Jurrjens and Jo Jo Reyes) are thought to project to top of the rotation guys.

Chipper vs. Wright: Has been discussed to death on these forums. Really thought Chipper deserved the gold glove over Wright, but you can’t deny Wright’s hitting prowess. But Chipper did have as many doubles, more triples, one less homer and five less RBIs than Wright in 30 less games. In either case, lets just say both clubs are stacked at third base.

Escobar vs. Reyes: No competition, Mets get this one

KJ vs. Castillo: I still don’t think we’ve seen Kelly Johnson’s true upside yet. He’s a good combination of average and power, with some speed (over 10 triples last year). His defense will get better, and it certainly wasn’t bad last year. Castillo is better defensively, but I still have to say advantage Braves.

Texeira vs. Delgado: No comparison. Texeira is probably, in my opinion, the 2nd or 3rd best first baseman in baseball. Delgado has power, but Tex has the average to go with that power , gold glove defense and is a switch-hitter.

I might do the rest later. But as you can see, the Braves pitching staff is better, our lineup is plenty potent, and I can’t wait for April :)

By Lew

January 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-Keep em coming there, Guy. I love starting the day with a huge laugh. So the Braves are broke? Yet they keep coming up with $2 mil here and $9 mil there, have addressed all needs (even if, as DOB says, not to the extent some might have liked) and strengthened their team considerably, filling all holes. Don’t you wish the Mets had?

As for the salary-if we’re so broke and have been for 8 years or so, how did we ever win as much as we have? Yet the Mets have spent almost $540million since 03 and what do they have to show for it? One division Title and out and a priceless photo of Carlos Beltran peeing his pants over an Adam Wainwright curve. Let me know how y’all feel about that. While you’re at it, tell e about all that $$$$ y’all have to spend and how much good it’s done you. Anyone remember M Vaughan and Jeromy Burnitz?

By DAP

January 25, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

met man i would love to talk with you more about your pitching staff. like it or not, the braves got your horse. we got your only pitcher that went over 200 innings last year…so who gonna pick up the slack? pedro might pitch well, but i would count on him for 200 innings, unless you want to lose him for good. the mets will be lucky to get 900 innings logged by thier starters this year, and that means the bullpen has to carry the load. the braves have 3 potential horses in their rotation, in smoltz, hudson, and glavine, and plenty of starters in reserve.

if the mets cant land santana, they just need to pack it in.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 25, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

TLJ: Snyder is 30 something and a journeyman catcher.

Before being traded to the Mets, Brian Schneider has played for one franchise: the Expos/Nationals. Journeymen bounce around from team to team, like Kenny Lofton, Mark Redman, Buddy Carlyle, Mike Stanton.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, that’s also with a 40/41-year-old Moises Alou and not a 41/42-year-old one, as he will be this season. That may not be insignificant; every year of age added could be a big deal at this point in Alou’s career.

By Josh H

January 25, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Clarification to my post above: I was going to say that Smoltz will need some breaks, but is still one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball. Hopefully this year we can give him a few of those breaks and he can make it to the post season healthy.

By GSU-Lee

January 25, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

DOB, Got a taste for heavy metal at all? I grew up on Pantera in addition to classic rock

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Anders, as you have said over and over, Soriano only has 13 saves to this point of his career. Even if he went out and had a great year next season with 50 saves, this would not necessarily make him an accomplished closer worthy of making tons more. The closers making much, much more are the ones who have a pretty long track record.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think he is gonna be a good closer. I think he is gonna be very good. I’m just speaking as to the mindset the clubs have before they hand the money over.

Why would it have to be a lack of self confidence on the part of Soriano to take that deal according to you? Why can’t it be the other way around? Why can’t it be that he took less now, knowing that he can make tons more later if he just goes out, takes advantage of the opportunity he has long craved and does his job the way he believes he will?

Maybe he just doesn’t want to blow the opportunity he finally has. WHy can’t it just be that he is thankful for the opportunity he has to be a closer right now and does not want to screw that up by attending an arbitration hearing where the club says yeah we want him to be a closer but he should not make the money he is requesting for this reason and that reason and this reason and that reason?

Maybe he is honored that he finally has the shot to be what he has made no secret he desperately wants.

Soriano rarely speaks. The few times I have heard him say anything, he always seems to say two things: (1) Make me a closer; (2) Make me a starter.

Those demands are not the kind made by a guy lacking in self confidence.

From everything DOB has said, he is a no nonsense type of a guy (with the face of a closer), who just wants to show up at the ballpark and do his job and focus solely on baseball.

He seems to be the type who likes to remove all the clutter from his mind. Worrying about contracts or the hurtful things the front office said at arbitration hearings does not seem like something he wants to concern himself with.

Maybe his agent is an idiot. I doubt it though. Not every agent is a bloodsucker who only worries about the best financial interests of his client. Sometimes, some agents actually concern themselves with the best interests of their client, knowing this will lead to the best financial interests of the client being taken care of.

It’s a fair deal for both sides and should greatly benefit both the team and the player.

But since we are talking contracts, what are your thoughts on the Mets giving David Wright a 6 year, $55 million dollar deal while at the same time only giving Jose Reyes a 4 year, $23 million dollar deal?

Was that a lack of self confidence on the part of Reyes? Was it because the agent for Reyes is an idiot?

How about David Wright? Was he lacking in confidence when he took that deal? He is a future HOFer right? He should be making more than Andruw Jones and not half of Andruw JOnes right? Should have been the MVP last year?

Man, it is so sad for Jose Reyes and David Wright to be that good but be so lacking in self confidence and to have horrible agents. It’s tragic actually.

Come on, stop being ridiculous. There are tons of reasons these guys take the money.

By BB FAN

January 25, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Yeah, the Mets sure did not get very much for Millidge. Every Met fan I know was claiming he was the next great thing.

Back to the Mets trading away the farm idea. Its seems that over the last few years, the free agent market has not been what it used to be for pitchers. Teams are now signing young pitchers to long term contracts, therefore not as many are available. This holds true for trades as well.

Now of course, you do get the few teams who just can’t afford a pitcher at times like the Twins with Santana, but it doesn’t happen as often as it used to. Of course, there’s Oakland as well who seems to have a pitcher available each year.

Unless your team has the number of prospects like Atlanta and Arizona, it’s crazy to trade 5 or 6 for one guy now.

I’ve always believed that drafting and developing players win World Series. Even the Yankees started out that way with the 1996 and 1998 WS titles. Then they started to buy everybody available and it has led to them without a WS since 2000. They are now stock piling prospects again.

By DAP

January 25, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

does anybody think the mets might make shneider be the back-up? it seems like castro is pretty good offense…maybe they will make him full time and get shneider to the #2 guy. who knows. it would probably be smart for them to at least do it 50/50, cause they will need the offense, the way their pitching staff is.

By flange1

January 25, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

DAP,

Everything I have read indicated that the Mets feel that Schneider great defense and game calling is worth is lack of offense. I think they want him as the every day guy.

By Lew

January 25, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

BBFan-Yeah, you would think that by now with all their years of futility buying reject players for outrageous amounts of money, the Mets would decide to do something positive with their Farm System. Lord knows they have enough examples of how teams that do tend to win.

BTW-How’s that new young’un of yours doing?

By Anders

January 25, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

DOB

Why is it when I make a valid assessment you turn it personal? I don’t think what I suggested is unrealistic in the big $ world of MLB. Sorry, but it’s the agents job to maximize the guy’s value. Clearly this wasn’t done here IMO. He at the very least should have received more than what was on the table already for 2008 if he was trading away possible $’s for 2009. Negotiation 101. I didn’t realize the purpose of this blog was to make Brave fans feel better about themselves and their team. I mistook it for a place for frank dialogue back and forth about the Braves and their competitors. My bad.

I guess I’m used to living up in NY where you have to deal with the enemy (Yankees) everyday. We don’t run from their fans or tell them to go away and leave us alone - we engage them. It can make you stronger of you give it a try. I’m actually more in tune with the Mets and certainly the Braves by coming on this blog.

“Passion can be mistaken for bitterness when the argument being made doesn’t agree with your own.” Forgot who said this, but thought it was worth sharing.

By DAP

January 25, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

hey anders, king of the “you cant have it both ways”. you cant tear down soriano by saying he only has 13 career saves and is a scary bet, but then fault him or the braves by giving him 9 mil over two years. which is it? either you think he is good closer material and they underpaid him, or he isnt, and they paid regular price for a set up guy. well?

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Soriano has an ERA 47 percent better than league average when park-adjusted.

He also has 247 K and only 68 BB in 243 IP.

I tend to think that those numbers indicate he is a darn good pitcher and can handle closing in spite of his save total. I’m guessing most pitchers who are capable of striking out 247 batters in 243 IP while only walking 68 largely in key non-save situations are capable of closing. Of course, I know someone will accuse me of ignoring guts, heart and all that and will bring up one or two counterexamples from the entire history of baseball to refute me but I think Soriano’s abilities are clear.

By flange1

January 25, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Anders,

You are the biggest whiner that I have ever been around in my life.

“I didn’t realize the purpose of this blog was to make Brave fans feel better about themselves and their team. I mistook it for a place for frank dialogue back and forth about the Braves and their competitors. My bad.” Anders

No that is not what you want. What you want is to come here and speak down to all of us stupid Braves fans and teach us whatever you feel we need to know.

I for one am tired of your condescending rants.

You take EVERYTHING out of context and pick only the items that you want to discuss.

You say you want to “engage” in a discussion, but you don’t discuss anything just preach down to us.

By Hammy the Brave

January 25, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the info on Soriano’s contract. I’m really glad FW got him signed for more than 1 yr(Bill Shanks did have some inside info on this).That’s really smart of Frank to have him the same length of time as Gonzalez, to establish more continuity and closer depth for the bullpen.

Again I’m wondering DOB, is FW considering trading Thorman, especially if there’s a good shot to resign Tex longterm? I still believe the SF Giants are a good possibility, with their gaping hole at 1B, and maybe package a Prado and/or other unneeded piece. The Giants seem to have at least 4 unestablished bullpen lefties(I’d like us to get Sanchez) and a righty power bat from their minors, with a hyphenated last name that starts with E. That would shore up what I consider 2 of our weaknesses in the high minors.

Lastly, can you or Carrol give us a rundown of what FW/Kemp the farm director think of the following minor leaguers? Diorys Hernandez and JC Holt(potential starters at 2B or only bench players), Dan Smith(bullpen setup man, or organizational filler), Carl Loadenthal(can he hit in majors, or at least be a good CF backup), 3B prospects Van Pope and Campbell(Are they still high on them to replace Chipper, or has doubt crept in?), and KK at 1B in Mississipi(Is he a Galarraga clone, or too many strikeouts to consider as a starter in the majors?)

Love to see your input,

Hammy the Brave

By Anders

January 25, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Jobu

Many of the arb eligibles settle at the midpoint before having to go behind closed doors and rip each other apart. Getting the $500k in a bonus was no great feat for trading away a year of free agency as a closer in a closer short market. If Soriano pitches well this year he could have gotten 3 years $27 mil or more without blinking next off season. Now with the contract he signed yesterday if he gets hurt in 2009 (one of the major reasons given for signing now)he’s risked about $20 mil.Yes he’ll have the $6 mil but that’s a pretty defeatest attitude for a closer. He traded 3 to 4 years of huge money gauranteed after next season for 1 year at $6 mil. No one else see’s this as foolish? The guy made over a mil last year and is looking at almost $3 mil this year. That’s certainly more than enough to live as the king of whatever town he’s from in the Carribean regardless of wether he gets hurt next year or not. Why come to the edge of the first time you can sign a major multi year deal and put it off for a year at a discounted price?

Maybe he is a low key guy that doesn’t give a crap about the money etc. but that doesn’t preclude the idea that this isn’t a great deal for Soriano and if I was the agent I’d want everyone to know it was Soriano’s choice not mine.

By Eric from MO

January 25, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

MetropolitanMan how can you say Chipper is going to be hurt and not say Pedro will be?

Dont you have to have more than one down seasons to have proof to be on the decline? Besides McCann was an all-star last year too. Diez is better than Alou who is washed up and Chavez who is good defensively but cant hit. Hudson should of won 20 last years so you cant really say he hasnt figured it out. You cant say Glavine will have a rude awakening and not say anything about El Duque. At least Glavine will give us 190-200 innings. What will El Duque give you? Maybe 150.

By Anders

January 25, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Man, it is so sad for Jose Reyes and David Wright to be that good but be so lacking in self confidence and to have horrible agents. It’s tragic actually.

They didn’t sign those deals one year from free agent eligibilty - big difference. They were about two year guys.Met’s didn’t have to do anything but recognized they were special and acted accordingly. I actually think Reye’s agent did sell him short and I’m not so sure that wasn’t in his head last year. Especially when Rickey H and his poisoned tongue showed up in July and got in his ear. They ran Rickey out of town quickly this off season. The imbalance actually talked about alot on the FAN ( I think you’ve said you listen to/watch those guys?)when they first signed those deals. But Reyes makes more per year than Wright early then it switches. If Reyes has a big year next season I think they extend him for big $’s next off season. Then the year after that they’ll do Wright etc. That’s why they staggered them.

I’m sure Frenchy’s agent is watching closely.

By Robert

January 25, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

“This is just one of the many brilliant moves made by Bobby Cox”

Name ONE

Baseball execs extol Bobby Cox for one of two reasons

1.Those with the Braves love him because he is a company man, and because they have been suckered by their fellow in other organizations

1. Those in other organizations, who think Cox is great, on someone else’s team

Quick, how do you turn a legitimate WS contender into a division champion?

Have Bobby Cox manage the team

By Robert

January 25, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Secondly, there is no arrogance in pointing out Cox’s idiocy.

I am not saying that I, and only I, could do better.

Quite the opposite. I am saying that essentially anyone not named Bobby Cox or Mike Hargrove couldve done better

And little baseball knowledge is required

As an analogy, do you need to know how to do auto repairs to know that you dont fix a flat tire by changing the battery?

You dont have to know the exact details of the correct answer in order to recognize gross incompetence

By McFann

January 25, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Eric’s correct. Most people don’t consider a player to be on the decline until they’ve steadily gone down for a couple years at least. And yeah, Brian has been an All-Star in both of his full seasons.

Think before you type. : )

By GermanBravesFan

January 25, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Happy (belated) New Year to all… After spending some time in the homeland, I am finally back and can’t wait for spring training to begin!

Seems like some things haven’t changed over the past week: Robert still being a donkey and Anders still being bitter about almost anything the Braves do well (signing Glavine and Soriano).

GO BRAVES!!!!

By MetsPussycat

January 25, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

By Vinny Vegas January 25, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

“Oh yes the mighty Mets……”

-You could have stopped right after this statement dude! Glad to see you recognize though!

“Bet against the Mets; the true competition will be the Braves and Phillies for the N.L. East. All Mets fans can hope for is for there team to be an occasional spoiler against somebody.”

-Now you are really dreaming on this one! Phillies will take it to the Braves all season! Guess what…the METS will take it to the Braves all season too!! Bet you knew that though! lol

LETS GO METS!!!!!

By Robert

January 25, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

“Finally, the time had arrived. Bobby Cox took over as Braves manager in 1980 and moved Dale Murphy from catcher and first base to the outfield”

Cox moved Murphy to the outfield because he thought Bruce Benedict was a big time catcher

Cox was also the “genius” that let Rick Camp close ahead of Gene Garber.

Cox was such a genius that when Joe Torre took over, essentially the same team made an immediate 11 game jump in the standings (between 81 and 82)

Cox was the genius that let guys like Rufinaro Linares and Jerry Royster bat leadoff instead of Brett Butler

Yeah, Cox has shown us over and over again what a genius he is

By DAP

January 25, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

anders He traded 3 to 4 years of huge money gauranteed after next season for 1 year at $6 mil. No one else see’s this as foolish?

so you agree that soriano is a good choice for the braves closer? because up until now youve been bashing him.

By Anders

January 25, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

DAP

I’ve consistently said that having a closer with 13 career saves is a risk. It’s a grueling job that takes more than just stuff to be good at. He may excel, he may not. We won’t know until he goes through at least one full season in the role. I’ve been regularly rebuffed that as long as he stays healthy Soriano will soar in the role based on how he finished up last year. My 9:19 post was to point out that this contract he signed doesn’t show the confidence of a guy who’s ready to bust on to the scene as a big time closer. Otherwise he’d sit tight and sign the big money multi year deal next off season. If he signed a 3 year deal - maybe. But 2008 was in the bank already so all he did was sign for 2009 at a discount over market and put off 3 to 4 more guaranteed years until after 2009. For $6 mil? Not good risk management.

Now to all, I’m just trying to answer those who’ve posed questions to me. Please don’t take this as I’m obsessed over this. Because I live on the other side i get more responses than most and then my flurry of posts are perceived as bitter obsession.

I

By cricket

January 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

MetMan Dude,I remember the days many many many MANY moons ago when I used to actually look forward to reading your posts as they offered the opponents’ perspective. They made clear that you were obviously a mets’ fan but you still had a grasp of reality about your team’s strengths and weaknesses compared to other teams. You were still optimistic about your team’s chances, just the way most of braves’ fans are in these days after the big payroll and great pitching. But over the time, your posts have degenerated just towards ultimate bias for your team based on really nothing. Your posts today had only 1 quality - they were posted really early in the morning. But saying Tex and Delgado are wash and certifying that McCann is going blind and is on the decline etc. just did it for me.(do you work for major media or polling companies? if not,this sample size of McCann’s career to arrive at the conclusions will definitely get you a job of predicting election results). I can now add you to the list of posters that don’t deserve a glance. BTW, are you the original MetMan or did you take over the poor guy’s handle after renting his apartment after reading his name in obit?

By Lew

January 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Robert-Good God Almighty. If you are now resorting to pulling names like Royster and Linares out of your hat from over 20 years ago to prove Cox is no good, then all you’re really doing is proving yourself to be a cupcake short of a full package of Twinkies.

If you had any validity to you prior to this (which is a highly debatable proposition to begin with), you completely lost it with that one. Whatever. Good for a laugh, though. You should go join MetroDude on Comedy Central. You done chased one tornado too many. Too many cows to the head, I suppose.

By N8

January 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Anders

Let me start, by saying I’m not sure WHY it is that I’m acknowledging your exsistance.

You earlier comment about it being the agents job to get the maximum possible for his client, has a whole bunch of truth to it.

That being said, let’s not forget who works for who. The agent is EMPLOYED BY THE PLAYER, not the other way around. If the deal was acceptable to Soriano, who is the agent to say yes or no?

Robert

Right when I was pretty much getting on the nerves of the entire blog, with my “sucks”/American Idol/music in general discussion, you come to the rescue.

Nothing like a Robert Rant to direct attention elsewhere. LOL!

Thanx dude. I apreciate it.

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Anders, yeah, those 2 deals were talked about alot on the FAN. I remember Mad Dog basically calling the agent for Reyes an idiot for getting Jose $30 mil less than Wright. That’s really the only reason I know about the disparity in contracts. But Wright is an established star. Reyes is more like Frenchy - they are catalysts (in different ways) and show flashes of greatness but neither has sustained their excellence on a consistent enough basis.

But as to Soriano, is it really a bad move for him to take that deal one year away from free agency?

Say he has a good year next season and saves 40 games and then hits the free agent market with only 53 saves in his career.

What kind of deal does he get then?

But what if he has 2 good years as a closer and has over 80 saves in 2 seasons and almost 100 for his career?

Don’t you think he would get much more money and more years to his contract if he establishes himself as a closer for 2 years before he becomes a closer?

I think SOriano and his agent have the confidence that Soriano is gonna get the job done over the next 2 years and that he will make more money when he hits the free agent market then rather than rush himself into the free agent market and find himself locked into a deal that is inferior to the one he could have had if he was just patient and notched 2 years under his belt as a closer.

With all the closer woes the Braves have had over the years, if Soriano can establish himself as a big time closer for the Braves, he would get lots of press and earn even more money as a free agent when you include the fame in addition to the performance.

THis is especially true if he can get it done during the stretch run and in the playoffs.

I actually have the opposite opinion of you when it comes to the self confidence of Soriano in taking this deal.

It says to me that he expects to dominate over the next 2 seasons and get very handsomely rewarded when he hits the market in 2 seasons.

A guy with less confidence would have taken the team to arbitration and then hit the market looking to make a quick buck because he knows over the long term he will not cut it.

By DAP

January 25, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

anders so youve pointed out soriano has little closer experience and no one is sure he will excell in the closer’s role…so why is $9 mil for two years a bad deal for him…while he tries to prove that he is a good closer? i really dont get your stance, man. it seems like your double talking.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

GSU-Lee — Metallica, yes. Pantera, no. And basically no other heavy metal bands. Just doesn’t do it for me. For the hard stuff, gimme bands ranging from Clash to Zep, Soundgarden to Sex Pistols, Alice in Chains to Husker Du, Replacements to Minutemen, Black Flag to Guns N Roses, etc. Even some old Nugent.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Anders, it’s not “perceived” as bitter obsession. It IS bitter obsession. Call a spade a spade. You can’t help yourself, admit it.

And please, the line about you just answer questions that folks ask you — that’s beyond absurd. You intentionally provoke so that people will ask you about the Mets in relation to Braves. Because you’d get no reaction as just another in the crowd on a Mets blog, you troll here. Is what it is.

By N8

January 25, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Jed

I don’t know what to say (in all seriousness). Not trying to be vague, or sidestep the question (as you still seem to think I am).

I just don’t know if there is a definitive “line” that music either falls onto one side or the other. The line of course, being the separation of good/bad or relevant/irrelevant or valid/invalid…whatever terminology you prefer.

You let me know WHO is in charge of deciding this and “policing” it, and we’ll go from there. LOL!

Otherwise, the bottom line is that ANY answer I give to you, is nothing more than my opinion. YOUR opinion, technically should be the only one that matters in what’s (enter word choice from above), to YOU.

I’ll be the first to admit. I have listened to a lot of music that most would consider very “valid” (Beatles, Nirvana, Hendrix, etc….), but also have NO SHAME in listening to (and liking) many artists that the “critics” don’t consider to be important music.

Not to beat the dead horse of the roller skating crap some of us were bantering on about last night, but a lot of older music (or music I refer to as “music from my past”), falls into the nostalgia category. Meaning, if a seemingly cheesy song reminds me of something from my youth, I generally have “warm” feelings about that song, whether it’s a legitimate classic or just another song that came and went.

Music for me, is a time-line of my life. It shaped who I am (as a musician), and definitely is locked in time at certain points of my upbringing.

For example, the year that I gigged the most, was 1994. Pretty much played anywhere from 4-7 nights a week from April until December of that year. We had an old 1973 Blue Bird school bus, that a buddy of ours who has a body shop, had gone through and gutted the thing and turned it into what we thought was “paradise on wheels”. Of course nobody told us that carrying thousands of pounds of gear around in that thing would strain the engine. LOL!

Anyhow, for about 2 months straight we had Soundgarden’s Superunknown in the stereo system we installed. That disc NEVER came out. Needless to say, I don’t listen to it much anymore. But you can understand, why when I hear songs off that album, it brings back a TON of memories.

So does that make it “valid”? I don’t know. Soundgarden is often thought of as a “musician’s” band, with good street cred. All I know and care about, is that that album means something to ME. So to me, it’s valid.

I hope that clears up some of the “glibness” (is that a word), of my previous answer.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Robert, can you stay quiet for just a couple more months? We promise we’ll wake you when the season starts by pulling the string in your neck that illicits one of those soothing anti-Cox rants.

By OrlandoFan

January 25, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Soriano did a great job down the stretch last year. With better setup and consistency, his 2008 salary will be an extreme bargain. And he will be marketable for trade in 2009 if there is a need. He’s young, guys, and he can throw hard. And he’s resillient (reference the liner to the noggin’). Let’s see him do the full year and know his true value and understand clearly how this contract looks.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Anders, well, if Soriano can be as dominant as he has been in a lot of crucial non-save (and some save) situations, I suspect he’s good enough to close.

Soriano in the 9th inning: 52 G, 189 PA, 8 R, 3 HR, 16 BB, 52 K, .118/.202/.206 opponents’ AVG/OBP/SLG

Soriano in late & close situations: 48 G, 169 PA, 17 R, 6 HR, 9 BB, 48 K, .163/.207/.294 opponents’ AVG/OBP/SLG

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Anders deal for Soriano: 1 year, $3 mil this season, then 3 years, $27 mil for a combined total of 4 years, $30 mil.

The deal for SOriano if he dominates the next 2 seasons: 2 years, $9 mil for the next two years and then 4 years, $50 mil??? when he becomes a contract for a combined total of 6 years and $59 mil.

Which one sounds better to you? SOriano has the confidence he will dominate over the next 2 seasons and make more money by hitting the free agent market with a more impressive resume after 2 years rather than hit it after one.

Worst case scenario if he gets injured and becomes a somewhat suspect closer of the likes of Octavio Dotel: 2 years, $9 mil over the next 2 seasons and then a series of 2 year, $11 mil contracts following that like Dotel gets. For a total of 4 years, $20 mil or 6 years, $31 million.

It’s kinda funny to hear Mets fans lecture on risk management after all the irresponsible long term, multi million dollar contracts they dish out.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Anders: enough with the charade about living in N.Y. None of the intelligent people on this blog believe you actually live in or anywhere near N.Y.C. If you did, you couldn’t possibly be so bored that you’d be constantly craving attention on this blog.

By Hammy the Brave

January 25, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Anders(uninformed Muts fan),

I have resisted answering your blog rants until now, but you really need to learn to present more logical arguements (less emotional)here, especially about the Braves.

Echoing what DAP and flange1 have told you, you “can’t have it both ways” with Soriano’s contract. If you say he’s not a legitimate closer, than the contract the braves got him for is great, especially for him(could be overpaid in your book). But you’re still “bellyaching” that he and/or his agent were stupid for taking this deal. Therefore you’re saying that they took less money than they should have, thus making him a more viable/valuable closer than your arguement first stated. Look back and actually read what you’ve posted- you’re actually contradicting yourself.

By the way, the Muts did do very similar things with both contracts to Reyes and Wright- they bought out several yrs of their free agency, at a discount(by your reasoning, both these players and their agents devalued themselves- in your mind all athletes always get top dollar for their services, or they’re stupid).

Hopefully you are more logical on your job, or you may not keep it too long. I do have some sympathy for you Muts fans however, always the “red-headed step-child” to the Yankettes, in NY. I once went on a spring training trip with an acquaintance, who was a big Muts fan. He was very obnoxious at the ballparks we visited, and got his frustrations out by yelling at career minor leaguers(AAAA guys)and telling them how they weren’t good enough to stay in the majors. You don’t really want to be seen as such a typical “frustrated NY sportsfan” like this guy, or do you?

Keep the rally alive on Wall Street(with all the power you possess),

Hammy the Brave

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, Pennywise’s Full Circle is one of the best “hard stuff” CDs, albums, whatever I’ve heard. Pennywise can sound a little cheesy, like they are trying too hard sometimes, but their good stuff is as good as any in my opinion.

By N8

January 25, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

Have you picked up Nugent’s new disc…..Love Grenade?

I’ve previewed most of it on I-tunes.

Let’s just say he’s about run out of ideas. But when you are the legend known as the motor city madman, it’s hard to keep duplicating that over and over.

I actually enjoy listening to him talk, more than listening to his new music at this point. The guy is like Herm Edwards. He merely opens his mouth and there is a sounbite for everybody to run with.

Don’t necessarily agree with his political views, and I’m not a hunter (but I’m not anti-hunting). But dude is FUNNY.

Side note. You’ve stated a few times, that you enjoy Metallica. You like the old stuff or the new stuff (ABA….After Black Album), or do you like it all?

Just curious. You strike me as a guy that likes them for their earlier (more “ground breaking”) stuff.

Just curious.

By Anders

January 25, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

Road: 35 games, 1.91 ERA, .155 opp average, .210 opp OBP. (He had 4.19 ERA and .208 opp avg at home.)

Glad you brought these numbers up so it doesn’t look like I’m bitterly cherry picking. What do you attribute Soriano’s drastic difference in effectiveness at home versus on the road?

No worries here?

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

N8 We get it bud. You like to rock out but you also have an inner Spice Girl within ya dying to come out and play.

N8 with his band: Welcome to the jungle We’ve got fun ‘n’ games We got everything you want Honey, we know the names We are the people that can find Whatever you may need If you got the money, honey We got your disease In the jungle Welcome to the jungle Watch it bring you to your knees, knees I wanna watch you bleed

N8 in the shower: Yo I’ll tell you what I want, what I really really want, So tell me what you want, what you really really want, I’ll tell you what I want, what I really really want, So tell me what you want, what you really really want, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna really really really wanna zigazig ha.

By N8

January 25, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

WHO doesn’t like the Spice Girls?

Besides, when I listen to the Spice Girls while “cleansing”, it’s usually in a candle lit bubble bath. :-)

By Avery

January 25, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man

Here’s our future…Jordan Schafer, Jason Heyward, Brandon Jones, etc etc etc. What do you Mets fans have? Absolutely nothing. Your farm system stinks, and there’s no way you can dispute that. Ours is…well, simply the most consistent farm system in the majors. And as far as comparing Chipper to David Wright? Let’s see Wright put together 10 more seasons like last year, and then we can start putting those two in the same sentence. Chipper is one of the best switch-hitters of all-time. Keep talking about his injuries blah blah blah. The man can still deal. Check the numbers. I can’t wait for this season to watch the start of the Mets fall…

By flange1

January 25, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

N8,

Haven’t listened to any new Nugent in awhile. I did like some of his older stuff and it is always fun to see him loud.

I still don’t see how he can handle that Byrdland at that volume without CONSTANT feedback.

Were you an Amboy Dukes fan?

By The Evil Genius

January 25, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

More of the genius of Bobby Cox :

The Date: August 12, 1987

The Players: Detroit Tigers General Manager Bill Lajoie (the fleecee) and Atlanta Braves GM Bobby Cox (the fleecer)

The Fleece: To strengthen their pennant chances, the Detroit Tigers acquired pitcher Doyle Alexander from the Atlanta Braves for right handed pitching prospect John Smoltz.

The Result: Sure, Alexander did help Detroit wrap up the AL East that season, as he went 9-0 down the stretch with an astonishing 1.53 ERA over 88 innings. However, he imploded in the ALCS, giving up 10 runs in 9 innings and taking two losses to the Minnesota Twins, who would go on to win the World Series. Alexander pitched 2 more years for the Tigers, going a combined 20-29 before calling it quits. Detroit did not make the playoffs again until 2006.

John Smoltz, meanwhile, has gone on to pitch 19 seasons for the Atlanta Braves, winning 207 games and saving another 154. If not for his temporary move to dominant closer, he’d have a legitimate shot at 300 career wins. At the close of the 2007 season, he’s 25 strikeouts away from 3,000 for his career. Smoltz has been on 8 all-star teams, won a Cy Young award (1996), finished in the top 7 for the Cy Young award 4 other times, and won an NL Rolaids Relief Award (2002).

Smoltz has also been one of the most dominating post-season pitchers in the history of the storied game. His lifetime playoff record (which encompasses an amazing 13 different times in the playoffs) is 15-4 with a 2.65 ERA with 4 saves and 194 strikeouts in 207 innings. He has one World Series Championship with the Braves.

To me, there is no question about John Smoltz’ Hall of Fame credentials. He’s been one of the best pitchers in the league for the last 10-15 years, and has excelled in every role he’s been placed in.

This was a tremendous fleece by Bobby Cox (who, of course, would later manage the Braves through a run of divisional titles). Some on the Detroit side, however, still believe it was a worthwhile trade made by Lajoie, as Alexander helped wrap up the AL East in 1987 in one of the greatest regular season finishes of all time. But to me, that feat is eliminated due to Alexander’s giant collapse against the Twins in the ALCS, in which his two disastrous starts helped end Detroit’s season. In essence, Alexander’s effect on the team was a wash. Meanwhile, the team went on to suffer through the 90’s, becoming one of the worst franchises in the game during that decade, all the while having to watch John Smoltz’ braves play in October nearly EVERY SINGLE YEAR. The John Smoltz trade was surely a Great Moment in Fleece History.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Wow. Just found out 99x is no longer on the air.

By BT

January 25, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Get em! I am so sick I Anders and Robert’s constant same old stuff! Let’s have a real Braves site.

By Hammy the Brave

January 25, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Robert(virulent Bobby Cox hater),

I haven’t answered your blog rants before today, but your latest obsessions/delusions cry out for a response.

The 3 points you tried to make were not backed up by the facts. From my understanding of Murphy’s situation as catcher, it was obvious he had a “mental block” even throwing the ball back to the pitcher. Most baseball people agreed he couldn’t remain at catcher. Bruce Benedict had no direct bearing on this situation. Are you trying to argue Murphy would have been better at catcher than CF(highly unlikely, and his career would likely have been shorter- don’t forget his MVP also)?

Secondly, you say Cox was stupid to bat Royster/Linares at leadoff, instead of Butler. I’m going from memory here, but they came up before Butler(who got most if not all his AB’s in 1981, before his trade for Len Barker). Royster did have speed and did fairly well at leadoff.

Then you criticize him for pitching Camp as closer over Garber. Again I’m going from memory, but I seem to remember Garber having a terrible 1979, and an ok 1980, while Camp was stronger both yrs- I believe he had an era under 2.00, in 1981. Also, even though Camp really only had a sinker, he threw harder than Garber, who relied on his funky delivery and changeup to “fool” hitters. IMO, when choosing a longterm closer, you choose the one who throws harder, and doesn’t rely on a trick pitch or delivery, except in rare cases(Sutter, Wilhelm, Quisenbery, etc.)

By the way, I have problems with the way Bobby manages his offense, especially in the playoffs. However, I mostly agree with the way he handles a pitching staff. You need to learn however, just like Anders obsession/hatred for Glavine, if you say such an established player/manager has no good/redeeming qualities at all in your eyes, you will be seen as having no credibility in the eyes of most true baseball fans. By the way, Bobby Cox is the only ML manager I know of that’s on the Board of Directors of his team, thus it would be almost impossible to fire him- so don’t count on that happening realistically.

You really need counseling for this irrational hatred/obsession,

Hammy the Brave

By McFann

January 25, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

But saying Tex and Delgado are wash and certifying that McCann is going blind and is on the decline etc. just did it for me.

Me too. I mean, we’ve brought it up before that McCann did have bad vision, but he had surgery to correct that. Saying McCann’s on the decline is just nonsense. And well, Tex is a lot better to have than Delgado because he’s younger…and better…much better.

Yeah!! Let’s ditch Robert!! His and idiot!!

By N8

January 25, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Flange

I got into nugent long after the Amboy Dukes stuff, and even to this day, haven’t heard all of it (maybe I’ll check it out).

For me Nugent was always hard to get into, on the stuff he sang. I don’t really care for his singing, though his lyrics while blatently sexual in content, are a tad silly, in retrospect as well.

But his guitar playing has always been pretty cool, from my angle. Hell, for as tacky as some the Damn Yankees stuff is, his playing on those two records was some of his best axe-work (by my tatstes).

I actually (sadly) own a Damn Yankees concert on VHS, and his playing is outstanding on that. Of course if you don’t like Tommy Shaw or Jack Blades, then you didn’t like Damn Yankees.

I’ve only seen him live (as a solo artist), once. It was on one of the recent KISS “reunion” tours. He was opening up for them, and spent more time talking than playing. I have however, seen Damn Yankees twice, and like on the video, his playing and performance, were up to the standards, that he gained his reputation on.

Like I said. For the most part, I like him, more than most of his music.

By MetsPussycat

January 25, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dt4risqelw

The “Age” old battle….David Wright vs. Chipper!

By Eric from MO

January 25, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Anders there is a reason Soriano took less money. He hasnt made a whole lot in his career and he knows, like all pitchers, he is one pitch from blowing out his arm. If he does that he may get no money. That isnt a lack of confidence thats just being smart.

By Overlord

January 25, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

It amazes me day in and day out the fact that there are mut fans in this blog that dare to type positive stuff about their team…

How can that be??? Arent they supposed to be having nightmare about the final week of september 2007????????

Please met fan, get the point, you are still the loosers you were when the season ended last year. Remember every team in baseball laughing at yours=??? Cant you hear the LOL???

Bunch of loosers, and guess what? you still have to face us and the phillies again this year. Any ideas on how to keep your head up while playing? PATHETIC. AMAZING METS, LOL. AMAZING THINGS CAN HAPPEN TO AMAZING TEAMS, RIGHT?

Future? how can you even try talking about your future or our teams future if yours have no bright past. And their past turned even darker last year. What about the present??? Great memories, right?

Go figure!!!!!!!!!

By Lee in S. GA

January 25, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

N8

Got to agree with you about Nugent. Great talker, good personality and pretty good guitar player. None of this applies to his signing voice however. I think a lot of people feel that way about him also.

By Roman Gal

January 25, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

All Soriano needs to be a GREAT closer is an awesome song ala AC/DC’s “Thunderstruck.”

When Smoltz was the closer and they played that song…man, that was some exciting stuff!

By MetsPussycat

January 25, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Overlord ….What’s amazing today is your post! This is a public, free site! Did I say PUBLIC? Anybody can post here! Did I say ANYBODY? Start your own beloved Braves blog if you want privacy whiner! METS fans dare come here with “positive stuff”? As opposed to coming on here with what else? Do you come on here and post negative stuff about your squad? That was a ridiculous statement you made! Hell yeah we METS fans are still having nightmares about last season as im sure you BRAVES fans are about yours and your upcoming one!

In your own words….AMAZING METS! AMAZING THINGS CAN HAPPEN TO AMAZING TEAMS!….and they will!

“Go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!”

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Suggestion: Do not respond to Robert. It would be like responding to a delusional person on the streets on one of his/her rants. Just walk by really fast and try not to make eye contact.

By Apaul404

January 25, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I actually think American idol is funny. My wife loves it. I stop watching after the audition rounds though. DOB your blog is going to keep me going, I will be in Okinawa for the next three years starting in June. Gotta get a bunch of games in before I leave. I hope Jo Jo has more luck this year it seemed like every man he walked came home on a homer last year.

By flange1

January 25, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

N8,

The early Amboy Dukes stuff is very pyscodelic and is hard to listen to now. The last album that had “Great White Buffalo” was actually a pretty good album.

Back in the day, Terrible Ted was great live. High energy, good guitar. The lyrics of his later stuff got a bit childish but I always went to see him for his guitar playing.

Never been much of a “Yankees” fan, but I have seen some of the Blades/Shaw acoustic stuff and it is far better than I would have believed. (I was never a Styxx fan either).

Ted need to get a singer and just play guitar!

By Eric from MO

January 25, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Anders you 1:46 post contadicted you again. Answer me this, is Soriano worth more or less than 9mil over 2 years. I dont want an explanation I just want to know your opinion.

By richbrave

January 25, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

DAVE:

Ever hear of the band ‘QUICK?’ I never had before last night on XMX channel of XM Radio. Me guesto mucho compadre. Et tu? I grooved to Steeley Dan, Grover Washington, The Crusaders, Gap Band et. al in the fusion era of jazz. Haven’t kept up with music since, but I liked the quirky sound of this group.

By Thrillhouse44

January 25, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Agree with your thought, Roman Gal, but Soriano needs a Wu-Tang song. I would go nuts!

By Overlord

January 25, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Ill be sitting front row to watch mets go all the way….. Did i sound realistic?

Hell i didnt….. the only all the way the mets can do is to the bottom of the division.

I never said mut fans couldnt come to blog, i have authority to do so, but at least if you do so, please be realistic. Dont try to tell us your muts are kings of the east because thats far from truth, your team made their own statement last year, im not making this up, and until they clean up their own mess……..they ZOK.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Shaun, good point at 3:24. Will try to follow that advice.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

No, I can assure any and all that I won’t be purchasing or listening to any newer Nuge, Damn Yankees or Pennywise (whoever they are) CDs. Sorry, got more than enough to listen to without delving into stuff that just doesn’t completely do it for me.

N8, I love the early Metallica, but unlike many of their fans, I also like the latter stuff including St. Anger. But they’re not a band I listen to on an every-day basis. Nice to crank it once in a while while driving late-night or while working out.

My tastes have changed quite a bit over the years. Just not into the thrash stuff anymore.

By McFann

January 25, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Just read this on atlantabraves.com, and thought you folks might find it interesting:

Jeff Francoeur changed agents this offseason with the hope that he may gain some more promotional opportunities on a local level. At the same time, he’s hoping that Atlanta-based agent Lonnie Cooper, who also represents John Smoltz and Bobby Cox, might help him land an extended contract with the Braves.

So far, Cooper hasn’t heard from the Braves. But this isn’t exactly reason for concern. The club didn’t even approach Francoeur and Brian McCann about guaranteed multi-year contracts until the start of Spring Training last year.

When McCann signed his six-year, $26.8 million contract last year, Francoeur remained hopeful that he still would have a chance to land his own contract that would provide him financial certainty during his arbitration-eligible seasons and possibly beyond. He rejected their offers last year and then seemingly enhanced his value by proving he can show patience and consistency at the plate.

The Braves would like to also gain some financial certainty with the 24-year-old Francoeur, who initially becomes arbitration-eligible at the end of the upcoming season. In addition, they view the Gold Glove right fielder as the cornerstone of the organization’s future. This is why it’s believed they’ll begin negotiating a contract with him in the very near future.

By Lew

January 25, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Flange-Did you realize Ted was only 16-17 when the early Amboy Dukes came out? I just picked up a Dukes anthology. You’re right it is certainly dated, but it was a lot of fun revisiting the past for a while.

BTW-Why is a carrot more orange than an orange?

By MGL

January 25, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

The reason all the Muts guys are here blogging is that there is zero action on their team’s blogs. Nothing happening to discuss.

By DAP

January 25, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

any body like cake? the band, not the birthday treat.

By richbrave

January 25, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

SHAUN:

Robert? There was one?

By Anders

January 25, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Eric in Mo

Answer me this, is Soriano worth more or less than 9mil over 2 years.

If he’s an effective closer more if not less. That’s my point. He apparently isn’t willing to take the risk for more. Why? Been my point since I first posted. I’m not arguing what Ithink of him, I’m arguing what his actions say he and his agent think of his chances. Nothing more.

By Gsu-Lee

January 25, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, as a former heavy metal bassist, I am all for Metallica (early), Cliff Burton is one of the most influential and talented musicians I have ever listened to. He has a terrific mix of uniqueness and talent. Pretty much every bass line on Master of Puppets is awesoms, especially on Orion, which also might be my favorite Metallica song at the moment

By Roman Gal

January 25, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse, I’m sure I would agree with you if I had ever heard of Wu-Tang.

By Efrim

January 25, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Soriano will be better than Bob Wickman, I can assure you of that.

He is one of the last guys I am worried about next season.

Worries for Braves fans:

Chipper’s health.

Smoltz’ health.

It begins and ends with that. Obviously other things can happen, but if Smoltz can deliver 32 starts and Chipper can register 500 or so at bats, then the Braves will be right there.

By DAP

January 25, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

LEW when adam was naming everything in the garden of eden, he had probably already named most of the colors, and he saw the orange first. he thought to himself “thats kind orangy, ill call it an orange.” then a carrot came up and he was like “crap…orange is already taken…i dont care ‘bout it.” so the carrot became known as the “carrboutit” and later, the “bout” was dropped for easier pronunciation.

its in the bible. 2 opinion ch. 2 vs. 7-12. its in there.

i hope this doesnt count as discussing religion on the blog.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Check this out.

“The only possible addition the Braves could make is another arm for the bullpen, but that puts them in the same situation as every other team. Otherwise, the Braves are in good shape for the year as long as they can trust their own judgment.”

By DonCoburleone

January 25, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Here you go Mets fans, especially you MetsPUSSYcat, enjoy!

2007 Mets Season in Review

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

DAP, Cake is very good. Both the band and the bakery item.

My man’s moving out the rental DVDs at Ella Guru and bringing in vinyl soon, so I bought some DVDs from him. Got a few concert DVDs f today, including Calexico, Drive-By Truckers live at 40-Watt Club, Ike and Tina Turner live, and a Prince 1987 New Year’s Eve show at Paisley Park in Minneapolis. Also got a couple of movies, Coffy (Pam Grier, oh yeah) and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

It was a good day.

By nOLIE

January 25, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Secondly, you say Cox was stupid to bat Royster/Linares at leadoff, instead of Butler. I’m going from memory here, but they came up before Butler(who got most if not all his AB’s in 1981, before his trade for Len Barker). Royster did have speed and did fairly well at leadoff.BT

yeah he couldn’t have been all that stupid with Butler. in ‘81 his only year under Cox Butler came up in late August . He got 131 PA at leadoff and batted .237. Linares got 108 PA and batted .350 at leadoff. Linares didn’t hit worth a hoot anywhere but leadoff. Damm dumb Booby, screwed up again. LOL.

By David O'Brien

January 25, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Anders, you’ve spent about half of the winter here trying to psychoanalyze the statements and motivations for Tom Glavine and now Rafael Soriano. Why don’t you drop the amateur-hour analysis and just evaluate folks’ performance and such? Who the H are you to try to figure out every player’s motivation for his actions and to try to break down a man’s statements and make pronouncements about his state of mind? So tired of that garbage from you.

By DonCoburleone

January 25, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Or actually, this one is even better Muts fans, hahahahahaha:

LOSERS

By flange1

January 25, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew,

It is amazing how good the Nuge was at an early age. Kind of like listening to a young Neil Schon in Santana.

Both of those guys could play their butts off at an early age.

Interesting to listen to Journey to the Center of your mind now isn’t it????

By Anders

January 25, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sure, just don’t bring up the supposed Mets septic clubhouse as an issue and I’ll play along. I can stick to the performance numbers. I’ve just been following the crowd here.

By BossLady

January 25, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

DOB 1:42 Funny as heck

Shaun 3:24 Cracking me up

I knew if I read long enough, some light would shine over these bloggers

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Anders, you can either take the short-term contract the team your with for more than what you likely would have received in arbitration over the long haul or you could risk having an off year or injury in hopes that you’ll get a big payoff at the end of the year.

This way, Soriano guarantees some decent money over the next couple of seasons and is still free to sign a huge deal after that.

By Shaun

January 25, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Anders, you can either take the short-term contract the team your with for more than what you likely would have received in arbitration over the long haul or you could risk having an off year or injury in hopes that you’ll get a big payoff at the end of the year.

This way, Soriano guarantees some decent money over the next couple of seasons and is still free to sign a huge deal after that.

If I’m an athlete, I’m looking at the next opportunity to sign a contract and trying to get the most out of that one. I’m not taking a relatively measly amount of money for one year in hopes that I’ll have a huge season and can get a huge contract after that. Nothing is guaranteed, especially if you a major league pitcher.

By DonCoburleone

January 25, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB why do you even entertain retards like Anders by responding to what he says? That is exactly what that terd wants. Remember DOB, he is beneath you…

By TennesseePaul

January 25, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Payne: Took a while but I see you caught on at 3:24

By Robert

January 25, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

“Robert-Good God Almighty. If you are now resorting to pulling names like Royster and Linares out of your hat from over 20 years ago to prove Cox is no good, then all you’re really doing is proving yourself to be a cupcake short of a full package of Twinkies.

If you had any validity to you prior to this (which is a highly debatable proposition to begin with), you completely lost it with that one. Whatever. Good for a laugh, though. You should go join MetroDude on Comedy Central. You done chased one tornado too many. Too many cows to the head, I suppose”

Lew, I pulled those names out for two reasons. One, to show that Cox’s idiocy has been manifest in his decisions for decades, and two, because those 81 and 82 Braves teams provide the best head-to-head comparison that we have to show what happens when the same team is managed first by an idiot and then by someone competent.

Now, if all I wanted to show is that Cox is a moron, I couldve selected probably any of 140 or so of last year’s 162 games (or a similar fraction from any of the last 17 seasons)

My point will prove yet again prove to be true the year after Cox is gone (2009, if there is a god)

Of course, the Cox fan club will come up with some other reason to explain why the same roster will show an at least 10 game improvement from one season to the next.

I’m tired of watching my team try and compete with a 200 pound sack of s** sitting in the dugout and weighing them down

By DonCoburleone

January 25, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Here you go Muts fans, you want to turn this into a Mets blog then lets do this…. Here is a great article highlighting the “great” team that is the 2008 Mets: Mets Suck

My favorite part of the article: “With Spring Training less than a month away, the 2008 Mets will begin to assemble in St. Lucie, Florida, with few changes being made. After last season’s historic collapse, and with a returning cast of older, often injured, and fading players, one would think some sort of shake up would have taken place.”

HA!

By Efrim

January 25, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Good read at 4:41. Another arm would be nice, but like they said, every team could use another arm in the pen. Jurrjens as a reliever is a interesting idea. He has the fastball for it.

By Robert

January 25, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

“Robert-Good God Almighty. If you are now resorting to pulling names like Royster and Linares out of your hat from over 20 years ago to prove Cox is no good,”

So, it’s legit to talk about something Cox did with Murphy (assuming it was his idea) to show how great he supposedly is, but it’s NOT valid to show examples of what the records PROVES Cox did to show that he is NOT a genius

Uh-huh - That’s non-biased.

You listen if you like the conclusion, and poo-poo it if you dont like the conclusion - damn the logic or the facts

By GermanBravesFan

January 25, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Hammy the Brave: good posts on Robert and Anders. Geez - some things really get tiring and those two guys really are!!

ROBERT: if you have a problem with Bobby Cox managing “your” team, why don’t you take a break for a while until Bobby decides to retire? I think you would do all of us a favor! I believe it is okay to criticize the manager/coach of a team, but I think with you it’s an obsession you cannot live without. What else would you be posting here? I don’t think you have anything productive/interesting to talk about! Go get a life!

Go Braves! Go Bobby Cox!!

By MetsPussycat

January 25, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

MGL -Nothing going on in METS blog land? You cant be serious? Do you ever leave this blog?

Overlord- You’re whining again! Pick your pacifier up!

DonCoburleone- Good videos! Seriously summed up the look on my face! LOL But come on you know those werent 10% as funny as the Wright vs. Chipper video! Secondly as for the rest of your posts….I dont think one METS fan comes here to make this a METS blog! We have those! We come to talk about baseball and defend our squad just like you! EVERY team’s blog consists of fans from different squads doing what? Talking big ish about their squad! So stop whining! You are beginning to sound like Overlord!

Also what the hell was this statement about?

“By DonCoburleone DOB why do you even entertain retards like Anders by responding to what he says? That is exactly what that terd wants. Remember DOB, he is beneath you…”

Beneath him? The only thing you have proven in this statement is how “beneath” rock bottom your intelligence level is! DOB is gonna respond to what he wants to just like you respond to certain posts…know why? ITS A BLOG moron! Again…quit whining!

By Efrim

January 25, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Interesting article from Baseball America regarding each teams Top Prospect and how they rank against other top prospects in all of baseball. Jordan Schafer ranked #19. Here is the link: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2008/265522.html

By richbrave

January 25, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

ROBERT:

If my observations are correct, I think a + sign is appropriate after the weight guess you made regarding Bobby. Therefore, in my book NOTHING you said about Cox is accurate. Joe Torre would have done much better I suppose? Based on his Braves stint? Based on his Yankee stint? The Braves did not outspend the Yanks once Ted left and Time-Warner took over. Why would anyone besides Cox have done better with a disappearing budget? Frankly, I don’t care what your logic is regarding Cox. He’s been here, not somewhere else, and that’s a fact which you cannot change. Nobody knows or cares about the what-ifs but yourself. Give it up man.

By nOLIE

January 25, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

damn the logic or the factsRobert

neither one of which are you supplying. You must live in a very unusual world. One in which a total moron could stumble along for 14 years shattering a record that the greatest teams and greatest managers in history couldn’t even come close to. Interesting world. Like the other Cox haters you have no logic at all.Or facts either as your total muckup of the Butler comment proves. The guy has been voted MOY four times, with LaRussa the most of any manager. Almost every player who has ever played for him will tell you what a great job he does putting his teams into position to win. But hey if it fulfills some deep psychological need…go for it Lil’ Bubba.LOL.

By Steve McP

January 25, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman (I know he’s very much a company man and not always reliable) on the MLB site indicates that Gonzo is feeling so good he be back earlier than expected.

Also comments that Hampton is fit and over his hamstring problem.

Both good pieces of news if they are really true.

By Roman Gal

January 25, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Here’s an article on Baseball America about the best tools in the National League.

Quite a few Braves on here.

By McFann

January 25, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Robert, you’re such a freak. If you hate Bobby so much, then go root for the Dodgers and Mr. Torre and get out of our hair. Bobby Cox has established what no other manager in history has ever done. Sure, he makes some dumb decisions, but good grief, man!! Nobody’s perfect!!

There’s plenty of people on this blog who don’t like a certain player, but they’ll still acknowledge that he has some good points. Like me, I call David Wright “Not wRight”, but I will admit that he’s prob’ly a nice guy, and he’s a pretty good player. Francoeur gets on my nerves once in a while, but I’ll still acknowledge his skills. My grandfather’s not a huge Cox fan, but he’s the first to tell you that he made a great GM.

Just the same, I love McCann, but I gotta tell ya, I can’t stand it when fast runners get on base because I know his defense was quite lacking. And he grounded-out way too often in ‘07.

But of course, we who try to turn you around are obviously wasting our time. You might never find out the truth until the Braves get a new manager.

And please, don’t pick on the poor man about his weight!! Sheesh!!

By Braveheart

January 25, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

And we thought we were too obsessive and had too much spare time:

‘I gotta have these shoes’: Air Jordan fans endure cold for rare pair of 23rd edition

By Chandler Brown The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 01/25/08

Reggie Roberts set up camp outside Walter’s clothing store in downtown Atlanta at 9 a.m. Wednesday. By lunchtime Thursday, the 22-year-old Atlantan and two dozen others lined the sidewalk along Decatur Street waiting for Nike’s new Air Jordans to go on sale this morning.

“It’s cold out here, really cold,” said Roberts, who was at the front of the line. “But I want these shoes. I gotta have these shoes. We’re making history.”

The theme here is 23. This is the 23rd edition of the wildly popular shoes. Only 23 pairs will be sold at 23 stores nationwide —- Atlanta and Miami are the only cities in the Southeast —- and they cost $230. If you haven’t guessed, Michael Jordan, the shoes’ namesake, wore No. 23.

“Nike knows how to market something, don’t they?” joked Jeff Steinbook, owner of Walter’s, the only Georgia store selling the shoes.

The group lined up outside his store was a mix of 20-something Michael Jordan fans, middle-aged professionals —- even a minor-league baseball player and his wife —- all bound by a love of Air Jordans.

“We’re like a family,” said David Kawar, 25, who drove in from Tallahassee for the event. (The line at the lone Miami store to start selling the shoes today was “a mile long,” he said. “I know because I called.”)

Vince Shields, 45, a financial analyst from Stone Mountain, took off two days from work. He said he planned to add the new Air Jordans to his collection of 75 or so sneakers.

“It’s cold out here, but this is the hottest place in town,” Shields said Thursday as he relaxed under a blanket in a tailgate-style chair.

Will Startup, 23, who has played for Atlanta Braves minor-league teams in Richmond and Rome, lounged in a lawn chair alongside his wife, Lauren. Each sported UGA winter hats, gloves and lots of blankets.

“I see Air Jordans as art,” the baseball player from Cartersville said. “We have had them in our china cabinet before, I’m not going to lie.”

His wife of two years was there for support. And a new pair of shoes.

“I want something to show for all of this,” Lauren Startup said.

By N8

January 25, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

HEY EVERYBODY!

DOB sucks, Bobby sucks and the Braves suck.

I’m gonna predict a 20-142 record this year!

IT ALL SUCKS!!!

Alright, so I’m just kidding. I was just checking a theory. A game I like to call “looting the blog”.

You see, similar to when there are riots and people loot businesses, when Robert has EVERYBODY’S attention (and anger), directed at him, I just wanted to see if anybody would even notice if I said something that silly.

I suppose to truely test it, I should have had the one obnoxious post, and followed it up about a half hour later with the explanation.

But why would I wanna take the heat off of Robert?

By Robert

January 25, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

“Joe Torre would have done much better I suppose? Based on his Braves stint? Based on his Yankee stint?”

Let’s take 1999 and suppose, just for a moment, that Torre had managed the Braves and Cox managed the Yankees.

My guess is that the Braves wouldve beaten Cleveland or Boston in the WS

Why do I talk about Cox so much? Because NOTHING the Braves do matters until he is gone. It’s like if you have a ship with a huge hole in the hull - You can redesign the interior and/or exterior any which way, but the SOB aint gonna be seaworthy til you patch the hull, so there’s no use talkin about or doin anything else until you have arranged to fix the hull

You pick the twenty five baseball players of your choice and make you a team - it doesnt matter - If you let Cox manage them, they aint gonna win the WS unless the stars come into some magical alignment, the pitching runs the table three times in succession, AND there’s an idiot managing the opposition in the WS

By Robert

January 25, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

“Most baseball people agreed he couldn’t remain at catcher. Bruce Benedict had no direct bearing on this situation. Are you trying to argue Murphy would have been better at catcher than CF”

I NEVER said that Murphy shouldve stayed at catcher.

What I said was that I think Cox saw Benedict as a better catcher and therefore let him catch and moved Murphy.

Your own statement about Murphy’s mental block issues illustrates that it didnt take a genius to make this move

By chrisklob

January 25, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Shut up Robert.

By Robert

January 25, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

“Robert, you’re such a freak. If you hate Bobby so much, then go root for the Dodgers and Mr. Torre and get out of our hair. “

I dont HATE Bobby Cox. There’s a former frequant poster here who went by the moniker Grinch who I have met and attended a game with in person who will verify that I think Cox would be fun to hang out with and could probably entertain folks for days with his baseball yarns. Plus I have said many times before, I’d let my kids ride him at the county fair any day. What I DISLIKE, strongly, is that this guy is allowed to manage the team

I have also said, many times, that Cox appears to have done a fine job as GM

As for “Bobby Cox has established what no other manager in history has ever done”

You are entirely correct. He has established a pattern of turning legitimate World Series contenders into division champions the likes of which can never be duplicated.

Only Marty Shottenheimer (Coxenheimer to his friends) comes CLOSE to this track record in any major sport

McFann - I take it from some other posts that you are relatively young. If YOU (at age 2, or 4 , or whatever) had managed the Braves in the mid 90’s, they wouldve won more WS than they did under Donk

By Robert

January 25, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

“You might never find out the truth until the Braves get a new manager”

McFann - I offer you the wager I have offered on the blog several times before

You name the stakes. I say that the Braves, in the first year when they are managed for the entire regular season that they finish ten or more games ahead in the standings compared to the last year they are managed entirely by Cox

When I mean entirely I mean to throw out any year if they make an inseason change from Cox to someone else, NOT as a way out if Bobby gets ejected(

Name the stakes and let’s have a friendly bet

By Robert

January 25, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

“One in which a total moron could stumble along for 14 years shattering a record that the greatest teams and greatest managers in history couldn’t even come close to”

What record would that be? Making the flawed personel decisions that Cox the Braves three WS and several other chances to get there?

Son, if your biggest frickin problem was to remember whether to pencil in Maddux, Glavine, or Smoltz as your starting pitcher every day, you too couldve stumbled to a buncha division titles

But the point to the division title streak is mainly this - WHO CARES? The goal is World Series rings. Ask Mr Bonds, say 30 years from now, whether he’d trade 762 and a few more for a ring. Ask Ernie Banks. Ask the ghost of Ty Cobb.

A division title means you are no worse than the 26th best team in baseball. Big deal

By McFann

January 25, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

If YOU (at age 2, or 4 , or whatever) had managed the Braves in the mid 90’s, they wouldve won more WS than they did under Donk Robert

That’s not true.

You forgot a few periods, dude.

I wash my hands of your posts. I want nothing more to do with you.

By Robert

January 25, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Take my bet or go away

By Robert

January 25, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

I’m sure you’ll be cheared by the Cox fan club for “washing your hands” of my posts

I understand. You cant disprove them and arent willing to accept my bet. Says something - like you know deep down that what I say is true

It’s ok. I’ll still buy you a beer (if you’re legal) when the Braves win a WS within five years of Donk’s retirement, just like I will for everyone else who has been hatin on me for what, three years now?

By chrisklob

January 25, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Robert, YOU are the one that needs to go away.

By Robert

January 25, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

“One in which a total moron could stumble along for 14 years shattering a record that the greatest teams and greatest managers in history couldn’t even come close to”

But let’s ignore the fact that the 1993-2000 Braves couldve been a dynasty to rival even the Yankees of the 50’s were it not for —- you guessed it, DONK and his ridiculous screw-ups

By McFann

January 25, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Dude, I don’t think what you type is true. Everything you type is bunk, other than the fact that Bobby only won one WS. The players play the game, not Bobby. He cann put guys in the game, but he has no way of knowing what they’ll actually do out on the field.

And sheesh, type everything in one post, why don’t ya?

By Roman Gal

January 25, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

This is for you, Robert

Is Bobby Cox the greatest manager of all time?

By chrisklob

January 25, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

McFann, don’t waste your time with this idiot. There is no reasoning with him. He’s convinced that Cox is the sole reason the Braves haven’t won more WS.

By Lew

January 25, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Robert-What exactly is your point in all of this? What exactly do you hoper to gain? Converts? Are you trying to start your own cult or something? You’re trying to become the Jim Jones of Bobby Cox bashers?

Dude, It’s been the entire three years I’ve been on this blog that you’ve been spouting the same old tired rant and for all I know, you could have been here spouting it since the first post ever. Over and over, ad nauseum. What have you accomplished other than mind numbing consistency? Are you trying for a Guinness World Record for ranting inanely?

Have you convinced yourself yet? From what I’ve seen the past three years, you sure as hell have yet to convince much of anyone else. Looks like you’re not doing too well with your Kool Aid concession. Try Guyana. Maybe you’ll have better luck down there.

By ncscoots

January 25, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

I marvel at the Pavlovian response from the blog to a routine Cox-is-a-donk post from Robert. He’s right; he’s been posting the same thing for three years, and other posters have been making the same REBUTTALS for three years, LOL. Those who forget the past are doomed, etc.

If the many bloggers feel that Robert is wrong and post accordingly, and Robert continues to state his position, is there some part of the RROE that compels the many bloggers to also pull a rebuttal from the archives to re-post?

I realize that some of the more recent rebuttals also come from some of our more recent additions, but most of you long-timers should know better. :-) I don’t hold with Shaun’s isolationist view of ignoring those who need help (and I don’t imply that Robert is in such need), but there’s nothing any blogger extant could say to change Robert’s mind. Why bother, when you can simply scroll past if the content makes you purse your lips?

Robert is a little like Chuck James…he is what he is, just needs another pitch. Doesn’t make him trade fodder.

By Roman Gal

January 25, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

You’re right scoots, this STUPID argument with Robert about Bobby Cox has been going in circles ever since I have been on this blog. I’ve never felt strongly enough about it to say anything, but enough is enough. No one is going to change Robert’s mind about Bobby Cox. So you’re right…it is a POINTLESS argument.

By GermanBravesFan

January 25, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

ROBERT: if you don’t have anything against Bobby Cox, why do you call him a “donk” then? For you, it should be “Mr. Cox”…

By Geraldo

January 25, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

HEE-HAW HEE-HAW Robert is right. Hate him all you want, Robert is right.

By 22oz

January 25, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

I see Roberts back, posting 10 times in a row. Baseball season must be just around the corner!

By chrisklob

January 25, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Geraldo, whether or not Robert is “right” or not is not the question. The complaint with him is his single-mindedness. Hatin’ on Cox is the only thing this tool ever talks about. It’s a very tired act.

By dcarp23

January 25, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

The Baseball Think Factory offered their projections for the Braves this year. While not as accurate as Baseball Prospectus’, these numbers have shown to be good projections in the past:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2008zipsprojectionsatlantabraves/

By The Evil Genius

January 26, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Cox no doubt the best in the biz Stark

By Jason Stark

The best manager in baseball has never had a best seller written about him. Has never hosted “Saturday Night Live.” Has never been spotted hanging out with John Fogerty, Hugh Jackman, Huey Lewis, Lorraine Bracco or Kermit the Frog.

No, for the best manager in baseball, it’s enough just to show up every year and inspire Wilson Betemit to play like Eric Chavez, and Jorge Sosa to pitch like Pedro Martinez.

And win, of course. Every single year.

Bobby Cox

Bobby Cox is sixth all-time among managers with 2,091 victories.

“What I wonder,” says Braves ace John Smoltz, “is why does everybody know everything about Joe Torre and Tony La Russa — but not Bobby Cox?”

Think about it.

“Actually,” Smoltz laughs, “I think I know the reason, but I don’t need to say it.”

And then, naturally, he says it, anyway.

“Bobby is so unassuming and humble, he’d much rather have no credit whatsoever. So with each passing year, we have to do what we can to make people notice.”

Well, those Atlanta Braves may finally have pulled that off this year. ‘Bout time.

Any minute now, somehow or other, the Braves are going to clinch their 14th division title in a row. Even in a year in which they’ve used 17 rookies, 13 of whom had never before appeared in a single big-league box score.

Even in a year in which the manager has had to write the name of at least one rookie on his lineup card every day since May 28.

Even in a year in which the Braves had to waste 142 at-bats on Raul Mondesi.

Did it stop them? Did it matter? Does it ever matter to Bobby Cox?

“The thing about Bobby,” says outfielder Brian Jordan,” is he doesn’t panic. This year was one of his biggest tests as a manager in his career, with all these young guys. But he just stuck with them. And that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in.”

Of course, this is the situation the Braves are always in this time of year. Whether their payroll is $100 million or $80 million. Whether their closer is John Smoltz or Kerry Ligtenberg. Whether their No. 4 starter is Kevin Millwood or Damian Moss. Whether they’re being chased by four teams or none.

You can argue that that’s because the Braves are the best organization in sports. Or because they’re the luckiest team in sports. Or because they’ve always had a Cy Young or three on the premises to bail them out when they needed bailing.

But we would argue that the biggest reason is the manager, Robert J. Cox.

The best manager in baseball.

That best-manager-in-baseball title is not an honor we bestow haphazardly, by the way — because, in case you hadn’t noticed, this is the Golden Age of Managing. Or at least the most golden age since somewhere around the Korean War.

By next Memorial Day, barring something shocking or Steinbrenner-esque, three of the top 10 names on the all-time managerial win list will be active managers — La Russa (No. 3), Cox (No. 6) and Torre (No. 13 now, but only 32 wins out of 10th place).

And by the end of next season, La Russa and Cox both might have passed every manager in history except Connie Mack (who managed for 50 years) and John McGraw (who managed for 32).

If you factor in all of Torre’s champagne showers, you could make a case for him, La Russa or Cox as the class of the current managerial field. But with no slight intended to those other men, we would argue for the manager of the Braves, as he concludes his most spectacular managerial job ever.

So here they come — five reasons Bobby Cox is the best manager in baseball:

1. He leads the league in turnovers Is there any kind of team Bobby Cox can’t win with?

He has won with pitching. He has won with power. He has won with Cy Youngs at the top of his rotation. He has won with Russ Ortiz at the top of his rotation.

And then there are all those closers spinning through his bullpen’s revolving door.

Joe Torre has had Mariano Rivera around to wrap up his show for nine seasons now. Cox, on the other hand, has had more closers than coaches.

Over the last 15 seasons, 42 different Braves pitchers have collected a save, 14 have saved at least five games in a season, 13 have saved at least 10 in a season and nine different relievers have led Cox’s team in saves.

“He hasn’t quite had one [closer] a year,” says GM John Schuerholz, “but only because Smoltz did it for three years.”

The turnover Cox has lived through hasn’t just been in his bullpen, though. His teams have averaged 10 new players a year. Eight different starters have led his staffs in wins. Ten players have led his teams in homers. Nine have led his clubs in RBI.

All-Time Win Leaders, Managers Manager Wins Connie Mack 3,731 John McGraw 2,763 Tony La Russa 2,211* Sparky Anderson 2,194 Joe McCarthy 2,125 Bobby Cox 2,091* Walter Alston 2,040 * — through Monday

Did it matter? Does it ever matter to Bobby Cox?

Yet when folks try to give him the credit, Cox says: “I don’t care for any [credit], to be honest. I’ve got an ego like everyone else. But I’m sure everyone knows you’d better have some players.”

Well, no one has ever denied Cox has had some great players. But not as many as Torre. Not as many as a lot of those names around him on the all-time managerial win list, in fact.

If the essence of leadership is an ability to inspire infinite varieties of people, then who has been a better leader than this man? Bono? The Pope? Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf?

“What Bobby has been doing for 15 years,” Schuerholz says, “is taking all different manners of teams and meshing players from various backgrounds and various organizations, and bringing in young players from our organization, and building them into a team, so that each year the result is a championship club.”

We’ll never know if those 14 flags would be waving over Turner Field without him. But had this team been managed by someone else — or six someone elses — “I just don’t think it would have continued for all these years,” Smoltz said. “We’ve had so many things going on, so many different players, I just think he’s the main reason.”

1. A little respect Some managers are around for 15 minutes, and their players have had enough of them. Bobby Cox has been doing this for 15 years — in the same uniform — and we’re still waiting for this shocking, historic development:

Hearing one of his players rip him.

Just one.

“I don’t think anybody in this room would tell you anything bad about Bobby,” says catcher Eddie Perez, now in his second incarnation as a Brave under Cox. “How could they? He never puts you down. He never talks bad about you. He never makes you feel like you’re the one who loses the game, even if you just made an error to let in the winning run. He’ll try to make it seem like it was a fluke. He’ll say, ‘Did you see that ball hit that rock?’

“I played here for eight years the first time,” Perez goes on. “And until I moved to another team, I never had another manager. But I saw a lot of guys come here who said, ‘He’s the best manager ever.’ Fred McGriff was one of them. I said, ‘Why?’ And he said, ‘Just try to stay here, because he’s the best.’ And you know what? Fred was right.”

Even players whom Cox didn’t particularly like have nothing but good things to say about him after they depart. So the heck with his won-lost record. That’s the part of his record that may never be approached by another manager in our lifetimes.

“He’s one manager who doesn’t change,” Jordan says. “Most of them change. They change with the atmosphere. You lose three or four games, they become totally different. Bobby is one of those guys who’s just cool as ice.

“He knows that in the game of baseball, you go up, you go down. As players, you don’t like to see guys get temperamental and put more pressure on their players. When you get that respect from the manager, the way you get it from him, it allows you to relax and just go play baseball.”

Cox has been thinking about ways to create that atmosphere for more than 35 years now, since his playing career for the Yankees began winding down. The manager he played for who most resembled his style, he says, was Ralph Houk. But Cox drew just as much on his time playing for managers who were nothing like him.

“I played for a lot of managers I really disliked, to be honest,” Cox says. “It had nothing to do with my performance. I just didn’t like how they handled certain situations, other players. It flew in the face of what I thought was the best way to treat your players and win at the same time.”

So Cox set out to create a very different environment.

“I think it’s important that when you get to the ballpark, you know it will be fun to put the uniform on,” he says. “A lot of years, when I played, it was no fun coming to the ballpark.”

So he keeps things loose. He stays out of the way, as long as his troops play hard and don’t act like knuckleheads. And it works. It has for 15 years. And he hasn’t had one team yet that tried to take advantage of him.

Not that his most loyal veteran players would ever let that happen.

Only a couple of weeks ago, in fact — after the Braves lost three games in a row for just the second time since the All-Star break — those veterans staged a veritable baseball intervention with their younger teammates. They thought they detected an un-Brave-like sloppiness seeping in. So they walked off the field and called a meeting.

The manager never had to say a word.

“He doesn’t have to. It’s more of a pride in the players,” says Chipper Jones, a ringleader of that meeting. “We’re not going to sit back and let things happen. We’re going to address what needs to be addressed. We don’t need anybody to do that for us.

Most Games Over .500, Manager Manager Over .500 McGraw (2,763-1,948) Plus 815 McCarthy (2,125-1,333) Plus 792 Cox (2,091-1,599*) Plus 492 * — through Monday

“Smoltzie and I have been here forever. Brian Jordan is on his second tour here. Julio Franco has been around the block about 18 times. So we know it’s up to guys like us to let people know how things are done here.”

How Things Are Done Here. Not many teams have a defined ambiance to them anymore. But one thing that makes the Braves special is that they clearly do.

And that’s about as coincidental as a sunrise. It starts with the manager. It’s enforced by the players he has empowered to lead. It has worked exactly that way for a decade and a half. And, most incredibly, very few players ever have even questioned it.

“Well,” Cox chuckles, “it helps to win.”

1. Not-so-new and improved Julio Franco. John Thomson. Jaret Wright. John Burkett.

Chris Hammond. Quilvio Veras. Gerald Williams.

Does every much-traveled veteran player who comes to Atlanta get better within about 20 minutes? Or is it our imagination?

“It happens with a lot of them,” Schuerholz says. “And that’s a direct reflection of the environment Bobby creates in the clubhouse, on the bench, out on the field and during a game.”

You don’t need to spend six months in the Braves’ clubhouse to know it’s different than just about everyone else’s clubhouse. There’s a certain vibe in the air that doesn’t take long to absorb. It’s a vibe that says: “We will succeed. We will win. And if we don’t, then it’s just a temporary phenomenon.”

The players who have been there before feel it. The players who have never been there have heard about it.

“Players know and understand the respect Bobby has before they ever get here,” Schuerholz says. “And that environment enables that player to produce to his potential, no matter how well he’s done the year before or how well he was expected to do. There’s just a great, constant flow of positivism that comes out of him and goes to the players. And the players who have been here before tell other players. So when a player comes here, he knows it’s real. It’s not phony. It’s not hollow. It’s real.”

But it isn’t nuclear fusion, either. Cox doesn’t see that quality of his as anything particularly innovative or ingenious.

“It doesn’t have anything to do with ability,” he says. “Just make them feel at home. I try to. We all try. After all, we wanted the guy for a reason.”

But everyone knows that some managers don’t consider themselves part of the “we” that brought that player there. And everyone knows how some managers bury players they don’t want or don’t like. And everyone knows how fast those managers make up their minds about those players. But not this manager.

“He just knows how to treat people,” Perez says. “One of our bullpen guys pitched bad the other day, and I just said, ‘Be ready tomorrow — because I know Bobby.’ I know he wants a guy to forget a bad game, so he puts him right back out there.”

Russ Springer. Terry Mulholland. Mike Bielecki. Luis Polonia. Jerome Walton.

We could go on for an hour. One dose of Bobby Cox’s miraculous positivism, and you’re the comeback player of the year. And the Braves have built an entire organization around it.

1. Youth will be served The Tale of Kelly Johnson is the tale that says it all about the 2005 Braves.

On Memorial Day weekend, after it had finally become apparent that Raul Mondesi wasn’t an Atlanta kind of guy, the Braves called up a 23-year-old outfielder to replace him.

And two weeks later, Kelly Johnson was embarrassed to look up at his average on the scoreboard — since it was .033 (1 for 30).

So how did the manager react? By putting him in the lineup the next day. How else?

It’s a tale the veteran players in Bobby Cox’s clubhouse love spinning — because it sums up the way of life and leadership that has led them to title No. 14.

“   He's one manager who doesn't change. Most of them change. They change with the atmosphere. You lose three or four games, they become totally different. Bobby is one of those guys who's just cool as ice. ”
    — Braves outfielder Brian Jordan on Bobby Cox

“Anywhere else, a kid goes 0 for 20 — he’s gone,” Perez laughs. “Not here.”

Nope. Never even occurred to this manager. OK, that 1-for-30 wasn’t real picturesque — “but he looked good doing it,” Cox says, sounding as if he’s talking about a guy hitting .450. “And he was walking and getting on base. And he wasn’t striking out at all.”

So what did the manager tell this kid — a kid who easily could have come to the conclusion he might never get his career average over .100?

“I told him, ‘Quit listening to so many other people and don’t change a damn thing,’ ” Cox says. “I just said, ‘Be yourself.’”

So of course, Kelly Johnson then went 14 for his next 34 (.412). And has hit close to .270 since. And has, more than anything, fit right in on another journey of Bobby Cox’s First Place Express.

Talented as this group of Braves rookies might be, is there any other team that could have plugged in this many of them and just kept on rolling? Is there any other manager who could have made this work?

“I don’t think so,” Schuerholz says, “because if it’s someone who is more demanding, more volatile, more unsettled or more unsettling, that makes it all the more difficult for young guys to respond and play comfortably in a championship setting under these kinds of circumstances. But Bobby makes it possible for them to do that.”

And it isn’t as if Cox just stumbled upon that approach three months ago, either. There was a time, remember, when the young guys in his clubhouse were named Smoltz and Glavine and Jones. And they all turned out OK, we hear.

“The thing about Bobby is, he gives you confidence when you don’t even think you’re worthy of it,” Smoltz says. “In 1991, he stuck with me even though I was 2-11 and the fans were pushing him to put me in the bullpen. And I could give you 20 stories like that with individual players.”

How many managers have we all witnessed who would rather send a kid to the Southern League than send him back out there after a couple of weeks of struggles? But in Atlanta, that isn’t how it works. Not just because the kids have talent. Because the manager believes in that talent.

It’s all about “faith and patience,” Bobby Cox says. “You’ve got to have that. They’re up here for a reason. They’ve earned it. You don’t want to give up on them and not give them a good look. You’ve got to give them a chance to show their talent.

“I don’t think anybody should be able to say, ‘This kid can’t play,’ after watching them for two or three games. I know some people do that. But somebody had to have faith in them to push them up here. So I go along with that.”

And as he goes, you may have noticed, so go the Atlanta Braves.

1. This is not your grandfather’s October There isn’t much the Bobby Cox detractors can use for ammunition when they try to poke crevices in this man’s legend. But there is one black hole:

October.

All those trips to the playoffs. Only one trip to a parade float. Maybe you’ve heard about that someplace.

But there’s another side to that story.

This man’s teams have won 12 postseason series. And he’s won 65 postseason games — 22 more than La Russa and second all-time behind only Torre. And then there’s an even more important question:

How did they get to the playoffs all those years in the first place? The manager must have done something right for that to happen.

“Most people who bring that up don’t understand baseball,” Schuerholz says. “People who understand the game understand that the true measure of excellence for a baseball team, and the construction of a baseball team, and the strength of a baseball team, is the 162-game season. If you prove yourself over the 162-game season, that’s the litmus test that validates what you’ve done.

“And it’s that litmus test that validates Bobby’s credentials, more than a happenstance, or a bad hop, or a bad play that happens in a short series. And most people in baseball understand that.”

Obviously, that same litmus test validates Schuerholz’s credentials, too. So we’ll concede he isn’t the most objective man alive on this subject. But we still agree with every word.

This isn’t 1935 or 1955, when you finished first and headed right for the World Series. In an age of three-series, four-week postseason marathons, when wild-card teams have won three titles in a row, October actually proves less than ever — even if it might be more fun than ever.

Bobby Cox has still managed in five World Series — more than any active manager except Torre, and more than any National League manager since Walter Alston. Which means, in other words, he has reached more World Series than any National League manager in the division-play era.

“   What he's done here, it's been tremendous. But the sad thing is it won't be thought of that way -- until it's all done. ”
    — Braves pitcher John Smoltz on Cox

And while you can quibble with a move here or there, the truth is that Cox has managed every one of those games with a total understanding of the urgency of October. We can’t say that about every manager — even the ones who have won more than he has.

We saw him pitch four members of his starting rotation in the same game (a 12-inning Division Series classic in Houston in 1999). We’ve seen him issue intentional walks (and not just to Barry Bonds) with first base occupied. We’ve seen him bring back starting pitchers on three days’ rest (probably more than he should have, actually).

But at least he didn’t lose those series because he fell asleep, or pushed the usual buttons, or fell back on the old “that’s-how-we-did-it-all-year-long” alibi. Stuff just happened, the way it always does in October.

So give us a manager who gets there every year, and we’ll take our chances. Give us a manager who is 492 games over .500 in his career (the third-most ever), and we’ll take our chances. Give us a manager who can win with any kind of team you give him, and we’ll take our chances.

And we’ll take our chances with this guy — Robert J. Cox, best in the business.

“What he’s done here, it’s been tremendous,” says Smoltz, the only player to witness it all from start to finish. “But the sad thing is it won’t be thought of that way — until it’s all done.”

By Geraldo

January 26, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

chrisklob, I have to disagree on your point (to a degree). Robert’s continual braying of the obvious is in contrast to the complete silence of the soft, mushy, gooey hometown media that would not hold their collective noses if a sports figure in Atlanta farted.

By N8

January 26, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal

I remember reading that article on Cox, the first time around in 2002. I think the point that you’re missing in the article, and in Robert is MOST upset about.

Even Bill James states the following:

“Cox hasn’t had a world of success in the postseason, but he has had worlds of fun in the 162-game run. I would argue that, looking only at the regular-season schedule, Cox has been the most successful manager ever.”

Robert, in the past, has acknowledged (to an extent), that with the talent on the Braves over the years, and his knack for getting the most out of guys over the long-haul 162 game schedule, Bobby is a fine manager from April until September.

It’s only been since we’ve gone on our 2 year playoff hiatus, that’s Robert has started ragging on Bobby’s regular season decisions.

I’m not trying to defend Robert here, because for as much as I rant on a topic over a couple of days every now and then, I know when to quit, and at the very least, give up trying to convince people. But I have ALWAYS thought the same thing about Cox in the playoffs. I’ve stated hundreds of times, that I think he is the PERFECT guy to manage 25 egos from game 1 to game 162, and knows when to give guys days off, when to start or stop a platoon, blah, blah, blah…

But I’ve NEVER bought into the old Bobby/JS theory that the playoffs are a “crap-shoot”. That’s something that a team that’s won ONE TITLE in 14 attempts in the post-season says.

If our playoff “run” had ended after the 1993 season (without a WS title), I could have lived with the crap-shoot theory. NOT winning a title in 3 tries, is acceptable.

Winning 1, in 14 straight playoff appearances, is NOT.

It doesn’t make the “162 game ride” to the post-season any of those years, any less fun or enjoyable. But there definitely feels like some WS Titles were left on the table, to me.

Everybody claims that the continuity of Bobby and JS all those years, is what kept the entire organization very strong. I can’t deny that. Everybody out in the baseball world says Bobby is so great because the roster is constantly changing, yet he gets (got), his club to the playoffs for 14 straight years.

The part that shouldn’t go unnoticed, is that YES, the players have changed, making the “run” very impressive. However, BOBBY has remained the one constant (other than Smoltz - and I don’t think anybody is blaming HIM for any of the failures), through all the choke jobs (or post season “near misses” if the word choke offends you).

THAT can’t be coincidence. Crap-shoot ? Come on!

I know two things.

1) The “run” the Braves went on of winning their division for 14 straight years, will probably NEVER be topped in MLB again.

2) BUT, if it ever if broken, I highly, highly, REALLY HIGHLY doubt that the team that does it, will win ONLY one title.

I don’t have a problem with Bobby being the manager for a few more years, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious what life would be like WITHOUT him in the dugout.

I was one clamoring for the past season and a half to NOT have Andruw on the team anymore, as well.

Well….We’re ALL about to find out what THAT is like.

Be careful what you wish for, I guess, huh?

By N8

January 26, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

I have to add this “snip it” before watching a movie with my kids. (Believe me….I’ll be back tonight)

Which Jayson Stark are we to take seriously?

The one who claims Bobby Cox is the greatest manager of all time, or the one who claimed Andruw Jones was the most overrated CF in baseball?

Does he know what he’s talking about, or is he a complete buffoon, like many said last summer when that book came out?

I’m just curious.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Geraldo, if I’m not mistaken, Stark is a member of the soft, mushy, gooey Philadelphia media.

Robert could’ve used your help tonight. Looks like he took a bit of a walloping on another rich and rewarding night spent jausting with windmills … er, convincing folks that his unique view of Cox is correct.

By The Evil Genius

January 26, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

A Raw Special Posted by: Tommy Poe

As the official “End of an Era” Chop Nation columnist, I assigned the task of writing about the end of John Schuerholz’s reign as Braves’ general manager. That job officially came to a close Thursday, October 11, 2007, almost 17 years to the day after he took the job. Back on the tenth of October of 1990, the Braves were a last place team with a trio of young starters, a flashy right fielder, and a scruffy second baseman. With Schuerholz taking over, Bobby Cox back in the dugout, the progression of the players already in the system, and the players that would soon be brought in, the Braves dynasty finally had the key in the ignition.

The Braves rolled without interruption, until hitting a speed bump in 2006. A better year followed in 2007, but the playoffs again eluded Atlanta. Yet, it was still expected that Schuerholz would take this team through another off season; at least one more hot stove league, especially with Cox staying on as manager. However, as the surprising news leaked early on Thursday morning, it became clear that a retrospective of John Schuerholz’s career with the Atlanta Braves was in order.

After Bobby Cox left the general manager position in late 1990 to assume the managerial duties, the job had to be enticing to many. The following is a table of Bobby Cox’s additions. Acquired Drafted Pedro Borbon Francisco Cabrera Steve Avery Brian Hunter Charlie Liebrandt Javy Lopez Chipper Jones Ryan Klesko Greg Olson Lonnie Smith Kent Mercker Mike Stanton Pete Smith John Smoltz Mark Wohlers

All of these players played small to major roles in the Braves’ future success. That says nothing of players that Cox inherited, like Tom Glavine, David Justice, and Ronnie Gant. In hindsight, this job looked pretty good. Obviously, a man from Kansas City thought so. John Schuerholz had been the Royals’ General Manager for nine years before resigning to take the Braves’ job. He had a World Series ring to show for his efforts in Kansas City. Despite criticism from some corners that Schuerholz left the Royals with a deficit of young talent for the 1990s, no one complained about the winning he played a part in during the 1980s.

As Schuerholz’s time in Atlanta progressed, criticisms mounted, and payroll limitations became a thorn in his, and the dynasty’s, side. However, it goes without saying that when he acquired players, stars and journeymen alike, they came to Atlanta and they played big. Schuerholz guided organization forward following the dismantling of the “Big Three” rotation of John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, and Greg Maddux, and helped Braves continue to win. At times lucky, Schuerholz took over an organization rich in talent, and rich in Ted Turner’s lucrative support. However, Schuerholz’s skills evidenced themselves in the moves that he made. Rarely did a free agent acquisition blow up in his face, and the Braves almost never got fleeced in a trade.

A resume like Schuerholz’s is filled with great moments. Let us take this opportunity to look back at his best free agent acquisition, his best trade, his best amateur signing, and his greatest misstep as Atlanta’s general manager.

Best Free Agent

Greg Maddux (Signed December 9th, 1992) – During his tenure in Atlanta, Schuerholz tended to avoid free agency and focus more on player development and trades. Even more, when Schuerholz went after free agents, he sought low-cost, high-reward guys like John Burkett. However, in 1993, free agency had one of its first blockbuster years. In addition to the reigning National League Cy Young Award winner Greg Maddux, the National League’s Most Valuable Player winner Barry Bonds was also a free agent. Schuerholz had attempted to grab Bonds from the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1992. Presented with the choice, the Braves’ target was simple.Maddux was in the first year of arguably the most dominating seven years of pitching in baseball history. Adjusted Earned Run Average takes the old ERA statistic and adds in ballpark factors and league factors. From 1992 until 1998, Maddux’s average ERA+ was 202. In other words, for a seven year period, Maddux pitched 102% better than the average pitcher. As a Brave in 1994, he posted the fourth best ERA+ of all-time. The next year, he tied Walter Johnson for fifth best. Maddux is far and away Schuerholz’s best free agent signing.

Honorable Mentions: Terry Pendleton (Signed December 3rd, 1990), Andres Galarraga (November 20th, 1997)

Best Trade

On July 18th, 1993, the Atlanta Braves traded minor leaguers Donnie Elliott, Vince Moore, and Melvin Nieves to the San Diego Padres for First Baseman Fred McGriff – The Braves made this trade while knee-deep in the last true division race, one that would not be decided until the final day of the season. They shored up their offense with “The Crime Dog,” who knows how to make an introduction. A fire swept through the press box of Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium hours prior to his Braves’ debut. McGriff followed by providing four seasons of solid defense and dependable power that was a focal point until the 1997 season, when the Braves decided to move on.

Honorable Mention: Brian Jordan, Odalis Perez and Andrew Brown to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Gary Sheffield (January 15th, 2002)

Best Amateur Pickup

Andruw Jones (July 1st, 1993) – While the Braves have had luck drafting, especially in recent years with Brian McCann, Jeff Francoeur, and Kelly Johnson, no amateur signed under Schuerholz’s watch has had as much of an impact on the team like Andruw Jones. Signed the same day Bruce Chen joined the franchise, Jones needed just over three years to rise from a kid to a post season hero. In my previous Raw Numbers, I discussed how Jones never quite reached his potential in Atlanta, but when looked at objectively, Jones played a key role for the Braves during the majority of his time in Atlanta.

Honorable Mentions: Rafael Furcal (Free Agent, November 9, 1996), Jeff Francoeur (1st round, 2002), Marcus Giles (53rd round, 1996), Brian McCann (2nd round, 2002)

Greatest Misstep

The Winter of 2002 – Even the best get outmaneuvered. Tom Glavine’s departure for New York and John Smoltz’s new career as a closer meant that the Big Three era in Atlanta was no more. Schuerholz attempted to keep the franchise’s future going by importing Mike Hampton, Russ Ortiz, and Paul Byrd to join Kevin Millwood and Jason Marquis. However, an offer of arbitration to Greg Maddux hurt him.After the monster contracts of recent years, Schuerholz justifiably believed Maddux would get one of his own. Instead, the pitching great could not find a deal he felt was worthwhile and accepted arbitration. Suddenly, Schuerholz was forced to frantically deal away Millwood in order to afford the financial crunch he had gotten himself into. The best he could do was Phillies’ Triple-A catcher Johnny Estrada. While the Braves rebounded with a 20-win season from Ortiz in 2003, Hampton has still not regained his pre-Coors Field success and has been hurt more times than he has been healthy. Byrd performed well when healthy, but missed considerable time himself. Millwood, to Schuerholz’s credit, has never quite turned the corner and become the ace many considered he might be when he single-handedly beat the Houston Astros in 1999. Nonetheless, the winter of 2002 ranks as Schuerholz’s worst as Atlanta’s general manager.

Dishonorable Mention: Ryan Klesko, Bret Boone, and Jason Shiell to the San Diego Padres for Reggie Sanders, Wally Joyner, and Quilvio Veras (December 22nd, 1999); Writing about Tom Glavine in “Built to Win.”

All in all, Schuerholz oversaw 16 winning seasons in 17 years. In 14 years, the Braves took home division titles resulting in four trips to the World Series. He won with a large payroll and won with a dwindling one. He grabbed Greg Maddux, boldly acquired Mark Teixeira, and rarely ever lost when working with other general managers.

Critics will point to the number of World Series rings the Braves failed to win. This is a valid argument and it is the one true blemish on Schuerholz’s tenure with the Braves. It is what keeps Schuerholz’s tenure from being great. He was one of the league’s best executives – maybe the best in some years – but his teams failed to do the things they needed to in order to secure his legacy, as well as the team’s legacy.

Nevertheless, the Braves will miss his steady leadership and incredible working relationship with Bobby Cox. The Braves have been unbelievably fortunate to have two major figures around year-in and year-out. One cannot buy that kind of stability, nor it be faked. The criticisms will remain, but the facts are pretty simple in this area. Schuerholz had a solid 17 years with the Braves and a pretty solid nine seasons before that with the Royals. If executives are worthy of Hall of Fame induction, Schuerholz is a shoe-in.

And on a personal note : My condolences on the passing of John Schuerholz mother.

By Roman Gal

January 26, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

N8, I understand what Robert’s beef with Bobby is. Let me just start by saying that I am a HUGE Tim Hudson fan, and I was looking through the archives on the Braves website to see what Hudsons reaction was to being traded and all that other stuff. Well after I read all that, I decided to go back to certain months of each year (mainly July, October, and December) just to look. I do that sometimes. Just look. But especially today (and the past couple of days) since the blog has gone insane. But I saw that article and posted it. I just thought it must have been fate or something to stumble across that article in the archives all the while…well, you get it..

Oh, and I haven’t been on the blog for 2 years. But in February it will be my 1 year anniversary! So…PIE for everyone!

By BossLady

January 26, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this

I knew this was going to get ugly. We love our Braves and Bobby Cox.

I see it finally ran everybody off the blog, it is 1:55 and no posts since 12:55.

Some people spoil all the fun and they wonder why nobody likes them.

Misfits should go inside their rooms and shoot themselves. No one likes them anyway and they world would probably be a better place without them.

Join the criminals and thugs and get the He!! out of the world much less the blog.

I came in to read and get information on the Braves and all this propaganda is too much.

Today, DOB asked the MUTS fans to leave and I believe that everyone wants Robert to leave also.

Why can’t these people take their misery and go into a roOm and admit they are just depressed.

I hate it when one person takes the roll of advocate and don’t have any people to advocate.

Nobody here is going to bash Bobby Cox or support the METS. Never happen no how no way

I see why so many people that were regulars are not coming in when we have all these Mets fans and A Cox hater to contend with these days.

Let’s make a deal, we should follow Shaun’s advice, ignore Robert and DOB’s they don’t live in New York theory and please ignore all of them.

JUST SAY NO TO THEIR BLOGS…….

By BossLady

January 26, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this

It is sleeting icy rain out here in the suburbs. I can’t sleep when my dogs are so uncomfortable. They like us to let them roam in the wee hours so they can do whatever.

When my husband and I go to bed they jump up and slam the bed as hard as they can slam.

So, I know that the DOB is open 24/7 and I an come read Braves information and here is all this rubbish.

How can the same people come on here and stay all day and night. Don’t they have lives? It is the same ones who spew hatred for Cox and Braves.

I could not spend my life in a mode that project negative thoughts all the time.

May God bless and keep them for they are worthy of our best thoughts and wishes along with hope.

This is DOB’s blog and he leaves to tend to his life and appointments.

I have to work to maintain my lifestyle and others who come in and out of the blog on breaks and in between their personal lives.

I can’t believe that some people spend all their life “knocking” anything.

Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 26, 2008 5:33 AM | Link to this

Bosslady , this is what happens when one particular blog becomes so popular.

It’s brilliant , stupid , entertaining , moronic , engaging and incredibly idiotic.

I just completely ignore the latter , you should do the same.

By the way , their are many other less popular baseball blogs about the Braves where the conversation is without the self-absorbed bloggers we see in here.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

Well good morning, BossLady. I know it can be quite a test of wills and patience, walking the canines in such weather…

Just to give a few more examples (someone asked earlier) of what constitutes the “heavy” rockish listening for me these days, it’s bands like Sonic Youth, the DBTs, Neil and Crazy Horse, Social Distortion, Dinosaur Jr., Pixies, Cave and the Bad Seeds, and old Skynyrd.

How’s that for a rather random 7 a.m.-ish post?

Only 2-1/2 weeks until pitchers & catchers (and me) report. Gotta start getting used to getting up at this hour.

By Braveheart

January 26, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this

Oh chrissakes, I am so tired of these pansies who won’t stop complaining about Robert, Anders, Metroman, and anyone who doesn’t act like a Stepford Wife to the Braves.

Anyone ever notice that the denizens who complain the most about those guys are usually the ones who rarely provide a stimulating baseball thought themselves? Bosslady, anyone? I usually find her quite funny but her next baseball thought will be her first. She is always the most vocal in her complaints when people ironically find her about as trollish as Robert, Anders, and Metroman. If you don’t like what they have to say, ignore them and start your own conversation. How many posts exactly do you expect to see in the midnight hour on a Friday in January?

If you can fall asleep on a plane but can’t fall asleep in your apartment because your neighbor’s television is too loud, what does that tell ya? It ain’t your neighbor’s fault. It’s your fault. Same thing here. If you are not enjoying the blog, it has nothing to do with Anders, Metroman, or Robert. It is your inability to create and further a conversation or debate that is to blame. Stop using Anders, Metroman, and Robert as your scapegoats.

This may be the sociopath in me but I personally find Robert hilarious even though I don’t agree with his views on Bobby Cox. What I find even more hysterical is the overreaction he gets from all of you every time he posts.

Robert would not even exist if y’all did not take yourselves so freaking seriously. The joke is never really on Bobby Cox - it is on you.

I’m guessing those who don’t find Robert funny probably never found Andy Kaufman hilarious either.

You can either let yourselves in on the joke or continue to be the butt of the joke. You decide.

Call Robert a comedian. Call him a performance artist. He can’t be that insane.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

From the “our tentacles might be spreading” file comes this:

I asked in the original blog, somewhat rhetorically, if Cavs guard Daniel Gibson was joking in his praise of Hannah Montana.

Forwarded to me by a pro-sports team’s PR guy is this response from the Cleveland writer who asked the questions of Gibson for that Sports Illustrated pop-culture quiz thing:

From: (name redacted, since I don’t know if he wanted it made public)

Subject: Re: Daniel Gibson

“I did the interview for that story, I think he was half-joking.”

To which Cavaliers (and all middle-aged) fans can breathe a collective sigh of relief. At least half a sign.

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Morning braves bloggers. Here something to go with your coffee, biscuits and gravy. The METS are close to signing Livan Hernandez. Not much of an ace but there goes your 200 innings you keep harping about even though Pedro, Maine and Perez will all log 200 0r more….a piece. Pelfry will finish close to 200 with about 175+. And those are my Jimmy Rollins METS pitchers projected innings. Bring in Livan and the heat on Pelfry drops significantly. Who needs Johan, this formula will work and shock the tomahawk out of you!!!

By JerseyGil

January 26, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Here go again with this metropolitan guy…i think he is not a Met fan…he is a guy living in the boonies of some mountain near tenn. I believe what DOB said yesterday…he is so bored in NY(like NY not have any blog). Doesn’t matter what the Met bring into the rotation they going to be destroy in the first month of the season.The east going to be between the Bravos & the Phil(advanced Bravos). Better mix between veteran & young arms. Metropolitan Man you can bring back all your old rotation(Seaver & co) and nothing going to happen, mentality of your team have to change in order to win again.

By flange1

January 26, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Metro Dude,

The article I read said the Mets are close to a 3 YEAR deal with Livan.

The Mets seem to be getting older and older.

You think Tom Seaver has any gas left?

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Philthies and braves huh??? Dig a a braves grave because missing the playoffs by 1 game and bringing back almost the same crew is better than finishing 3rd, revamping and not having a clue what you really have. The braves have to learn to jel all over again and figure out how not to finsh 3rd. They want respect, but the 2008 METS will take respect. Cant wait to see a bunch a guys with a chip on their shoulders take it to the NL east and then deliver the same message to the rest of baseball.

By TommyP

January 26, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Anyone talk baseball on here anymore?

Got a feeling that our old pal Dayton Moore is going to get a little recognition this year. Just have a feeling because the mess in KC that he inherited was similar to what Schuerholz inherited when coming to Atlanta, possibly worse.

He’s plugging in veteran signings to supplement the young talent they are cultivating out there.

A young outfield of Teahen and DeJesus (Gathright as well) was reinforced with the veteran Jose Guillen.

A young infield of Gordon (future star) and Pena has last year’s veteran signings of Grudz and Gload holding the fort temporarily until Butler is ready fulltime as well as Shealy, possibly.

He’s rebuilt the front end of the rotation with Meche (who’s laughing now at that signing?), Bannister (solid) and Greinke’s return from injuries. If Hochevar and Davies (how long must we wait on him???) can nail down the back-end of the rotation, things get real interesting in KC.

Not saying that this is a playoff team but I love to watch rebuilding jobs and it looks like Moore is on the right track. Not to mention former Brave Dean Taylor is up there, too.

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

3 year deal, sounds like 1 year too many but when the rotaion is missing just 1 piece to set things in order, so be it. Nobody wants to be held hostage by the Twins thats going cost you more in the long run. I would love to have him but much rather see what these MEN called METS are all about. They made the spill in 07, now clean it up in 08. We cant gauge how well they would do with Santana because he wasnt here in 08 as compare to 07. I hope you guys dont think the philthies are gonna be in it. The dark horse is the Nats, and they need repellent in all of 08, you heard it here first folks.

By N8

January 26, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

“Cant wait to see a bunch a guys with a chip on their shoulders take it to the NL east and then deliver the same message to the rest of baseball.”

You better be careful, since most of you players are approaching the age where osteoporosis, anything placed on their shoulders may cause serious injury.

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Twins singed Morneu and Cudder. Johan is either moving very shortly or they are just going let him walk in 08. I think they are going to let him pitch in his contract year (great numbers) and see what happens, and reassess their needs in 09. Of course this is speculation but hey, they could have had alot from boston, stankees, dodgers, METS, and possibly others and stood pat. Those guys are giving the twins fans a bon voyage send off for a job well done, now go get paid somehwere else. sounds familiar doesn’t it braves fans????

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Funny N8. I’ll make sure the corrective boots, baby asiprin, and the dead arm syndrome is adressed in spring training, what about you???

By JerseyGil

January 26, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Minaya order from a pharmaceutical company in the Dominican a truck loaded of celebrex, Vioxx(ilegal) TO TREAT there player this year.They planing to bring back, Seaver & Kossman ah…in case of Delgado can’t go they have Keith Hernandez ready.

By Metropolitan Man

January 26, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

Jersey Gil: The shipment was a peace offering for your 3rd baseman. Tell him its free of charge, we dont want you guys pawning braves memorbilia to make ends meet!!!

By N8

January 26, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Metro-Man

When I typed that, I realized that a good portion of our “important” players (Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper), aren’t exactly spring Chickens, either.

But considering, that since Smoltz came back to the rotation, he’s been durable and that Glavine has NEVER been on the DL, that leaves only Chipper.

You’ve got Alou and Pedro. So you’re one up on us. LOL! Delgado, while old, has been pretty durable. Everybody else (on both teams) that are long enough in the tooth, to qualify, aren’t important enough to matter any how.

It was a funny retort, nothing more.

By JerseyGil

January 26, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Ours 3rd Basement Name is Chipper Jones the NEMESIS of the METS, The grant PAPI of The mets, The DUDE of the Metropolitan, This year last year Mr. jones going to Play at old (Again) Shea and he will come again and break all the record there. Keep call him ‘Larry…Larry…Larry…he love to play there.

By cricket the pansy

January 26, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Thanks a lot Big Macho man Braveheart for showing tha pansies the ways of the Big Macho men. By the logic of Big Macho men, you are a pansy if you criticize one track ponies (the dreaded one that shall not be named), or one opponenet fan blogger (Anders, and this category would include DOB, but this pansy is sure Big Macho man can twist this to prove that DOB is not included in this pansy category) or another opponent team fan who used to bring up good discussions, and still does it but on very rarely now(MetDude - btw why isn’t he also on the metsblog.com? Because the bloggers there don’t take crap as well as here?). We pansies are also second class citizens (blogzens?) here if god forbid you actually have to work (or maybe you wait to have a baseball thought worth discussion)so that you can not post here for hours and in that case you have no right to make any post in reply to the aforementioned bloggers. Only Big Macho men have the right to criticize the posters (who by this very action become pansies)who dare to post in reply to those annoying / idiotic posts. Big Macho men also have the finely developed sense of humor of a baby that can be entertained for hours just watching something repeated again and again, same as reading the dreaded one trick pony posting same crap for years(a great example of how hatred may be as strong a motivator as fear). I would apologize for this rant but the Big Macho men can thrash a pansy like me anytime and as for the pansies, who the H would apologize to them?

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

MetroMan writes: “The METS are close to signing Livan Hernandez. Not much of an ace but there goes your 200 innings you keep harping about even though Pedro, Maine and Perez will all log 200 0r moreďż˝.a piece. Pelfry will finish close to 200 with about 175+.”

And we reply: MetroMan, do you even bother to base statements on actual results, or just go stream-of-consciousness with this stuff?

For the record, neither Oliver Perez nor John Maine has ever recorded a 200-inning season in the majors. Pedro Martinez had five such seasons in a row … in the late 1990s.

Pedro was The Man, as reliable as they come. But that was a while ago. He had back-to-back 217-inning seasons in 2004-05, but has fallen short of 200 innings in five of the past seven seasons.

Because of arm woes and surgery, he’s totaled 160 innings over the past two seasons combined. And you’re confident that, coming off major surgery at his age, he’s gonna churn out 200?

I will agree with you that Livan is good for 200-plus innings — along with an ERA of 5.00 or higher, double-digit losses to go with 10-15 wins, and about 250 hits allowed, including 25-30 homers.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Another thing about Livan: Do you know how many Braves would be celebrating privately if the Mets sign him?

Livan is 3-15 with a 5.44 ERA against the Braves, including 1-7 with a 5.56 ERA in 11 starts at Turner Field.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Here’s what appears to be a stroke of marketing genius:

After finishing last in the majors in attendance, the Marlins will raise the price of most individual game tickets. The increases will be $1 to $5.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hey, to a certain other Mets fan who is a tad obsessed with Glavine’s last three starts in 2007: If the Mets get Santana, we will not dwell on the fact he was 1-4 with a 5.11 ERA in his last six starts in 2007, with one quality start in that span.

We won’t obsess over it for one reason: We’ll consider Santana’s overall excellent, consistent body of work, both in 2007 and in the past.

By JerseyGil

January 26, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Livan Again Braves:

Chiiper 63ab 21h avg 333 Texeira 3ab 2h avg 667 Francoeur 8ab 4h avg 500

Bring in on livan we are waiting for you.

By N8

January 26, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

As long a Eric Gregg isn’t gonna be at home plate, the Mets can have Livan for the next decade, as far as I’m concerned.

By N8

January 26, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

The local “buzz” up this way, is that unless the Twins get EXACTLY what they want out of a Santana trade, they might hang on to him.

Their fear is that if they dump him (and don’t get major quality in return), they might alienate fans, which isn’t what they have in mind with a new stadium opening in 2010.

It sounds like they want to basically do what we did with Andruw…ride it out and cross fingers that if they’re competitive this year, and a new stadium on the horizon, that Johan will stay.

I’ve read some things that have stated the locals are LESS likely to be upset at Johan walking (making him the “bad guy”), rather than Twins management trading him away.

They obviously want a young core of players around for the new digs, and showed this by giving Morneau the largest contract ever given to a Twin, and signing Cuddyer to a 3 year deal (assuring he’ll be there in 2010).

This also may be a last ditch effort to show the fans they are willing to spend money….getting a head start on the “Johan didn’t want to be here” smear tactic about to unfold at the end of the 2008 season.

As much hoopla was made by people on this blog and Braves fans in general about the Braves NOT re-signing Andruw, I imagine it was not as bad as what would have happened, had they traded him.

Look at the Justice and Dye trades. 10 years later, people are STILL upset about that.

Sometimes (unless you are SURE of the talent coming in return), better to not get anything in return, than to take the public relations hit.

By bravesfaninmassland

January 26, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

DOB I know that you said in an earlier post that you have plenty to listen to these days, but given your musical proclivities, you should pick up a disc by Little Country Giants. Either Sing Pretty for the People or Breaking Hearts and Living Free are well worth the $13. I saw them the last time I was down in the ATL and was really blown away. They’re kind of a throwback to what was great about country music. I once saw them described as “Unapologetically Appalachian and unashamed in sadness” and thought that just about covered it. I think you blogged about going to see the Selmanaires tonight, but if you want to catch an early warm up show at Eddie’s Attic, the Little Country Giants will be there at 6 pm.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

N8/Metro-Man:

I almost spewed my froot-loops this mornin, nice back and forth….

I hear Chipper,Smoltz, Alou and Pedro are getting togethor to anchor the new AARP TV ad campaign. Its called “Wins for Depends”.

Smoltz: “Just tryin to keep my generation dry”

On a side note……Alou reportedly is wearing a “Gold Bond” patch on his left arm this year. Alou: “Gold Bond has helped me tremendously in my career. After every pee, I rubb it on my hands to get the moisture out”

By Braveheart

January 26, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Cricket, you made me laugh although you were being vicious. But that’s cool. I led with my chin there. You intentionally misunderstood what I was saying. But whatever. And although DOB probably does not agree with my rant, he should know I was not calling him a pansy. I’ve got too much respect for the man to ever do that. I like fighting and laughing with/at Metroman, Anders, McFann, Robert. As does DOB apparently from the way he loves to respond to them. My point is that I can’t stand the pansies who say the blog sucks because those people blog here or that they are gonna leave if those bloggers don’t leave. If you don’t like what they say, then smack the hell out of them - or just ignore them and start your own conversation. My point is I don’t understand how they ruin anyone’s blogging experience. I find the pansies who say that even more annoying than Robert, Anders, McFann, and Metroman combined.

By ContactBuzz

January 26, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - you may have discussed it somewhere (and I missed it) but I’ve seen you post some of your top movies. What did you think about Once ?

By Lew

January 26, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-Actually, I’m shocked that Omar did not sign Livan Hernandez a long time ago. It’s actually one of his smarter moves in the past couple of years and if they had tried to get him last year at the deadline, he may have given them the one or two wins they needed-at least he would have saved the bullpen somewhat.

Yes, Livan will have a relatively high ERA (and I DO wonder at the three year deal-were I a Mets’ fan, that would scare the crap out of me and signal more of the same old), but as the MetroDude says-he will eat innings. Not a great pitcher, but a solid, somewhat sensible move from Minaya. One of the few he’s made since joining the Mets’ front office.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Just remember people……Hampton used to be Santana. If he can be 3/4 Santana now….look out.

By Braveheart

January 26, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why the Twins didn’t just grab the Yankees or Red Sox deals. If you look at the Chuck Knobluach trade from a decade ago, they got Eric Milton, Christian Guzman, Brian Buchanan, and Danny Mota.

Mota sucked. But Milton and Guzman were important pieces to their team when they got good earlier in the decade. Milton later got traded for Carlos Silva, Nick Punto, Bobby Korecky. Korecky has been stuck in the minors. Silva gave them good innings the last few years. Punto has been pretty awful with the bat but has a good glove. Buchanan had a decent season when they first got good and was then traded for Jason Bartlett, who has not been great but serviceable enough as a backup middle infielder.

Trading Knoblauch ended up giving them lots of depth and little pieces that contributed to the team for a decade and kept the team good. They really should have taken those Yankee and Red Sox deals. Phil Hughes is a prized pitcher prospect. Once a prized pitcher prospect, always a prized pitching prospect. They are very valuable to have in your possession even if they somewhat turn out to be busts. The Padres are willing to still overpay for Mark Prior despite Prior not doing anything productive in years.

I think the Twins let that Liriano, Nathan, Boof Bonser trade get to their head. Not everyone makes bad trades like Sabean did with that one.

By Overlord

January 26, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone thanks for the link to that youtube video, it says it all.

By Lew

January 26, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Eater of Young Goats-Sorry, but Hampton was NEVER Johan Santana. Hampton did not win a Cy Young Award, much less two of them consecutively, nor did he have an outrageously phenomenal record from the All Star break ownward, every year of his career.

No, Hampton, at his prime, was a good, solid, effective-maybe even excellent pitcher. If somewhat healthy to completely heal;thy, he will provide us much needed pitching. However, He was never quite possibly THE BEST pitcher in all of baseball.

By Lew

January 26, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Baby Goat Person-A little comparison of Hampton and Santana-Their five best consecutive years

Hampton 15-10,3.83 ERA 11-7,3.36 22-4,2.90 15-10,3.14 14-13,5.41

Santana 12-3,3.07 20-6,2.61 16-7,2.87 19-6,2.77 15-13,3.33

As you can see-It ain’t even a contest.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

OK,OK Hampton isn’t Santana….but he was like him in more than a few ways…ok just in the way that he was left-handed….a guy can dream, no?

By Lew

January 26, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

I’ll break it down a bit finer-Hampton 77-44, 3.73

Santana 82-34, 2.93

By Overlord

January 26, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Im wondering……if the muts rotation is so marvelous, how come they are trying to get livan????? Lew i agree with you, if not the greastest of moves, at least is better than nothing. It is a good move for the muts in paper, but, if you check livans IP and ERA, they have been dropping every single year from 2003 on. Not a single improvement from the year before since then. So it looks like this guys are desperate for help.

By N8

January 26, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

“I think the Twins let that Liriano, Nathan, Boof Bonser trade get to their head. Not everyone makes bad trades like Sabean did with that one.”

Good point. But similar to our situation with Tex right now, they think that they can maybe WIN NOW, if Liriano is healthy and Johan does his thing. That’s a pretty good 1-2 punch, and having Nathan at the end closing out games, assures them of being MORE than “competitive” in 2 out of every 5 games.

Their lineup is fine. It really comes down to what they do with the 3-5 spot in the rotation, with Silve signing an ABSURD contract with the Mariners.

I really think the Twins are fearful of having big time losing seasons, in the 2 last years in the HHH-Metrodome.

Like I said, similar to us with Tex ,we could probably gain some BIG pieces for the future by moving him now - but WITH him this year - and maybe ONLY this year - we are legit contenders.

What does a team do?

I think our situation is a little different. We have 3 (4 if you count Hampton), aging veterans that might not have many more shots. So it makes short-term sense to go for the title.

Where with the Twins, they don’t have many veterans at all. Add to that they are 2 seasons away from a new season.

If I were them, I’d take the “best” offer for him, build for the future, and then maybe sign a couple of high dollar free agents in the off-season before moving into the new home.

Then again, I’m neither the GM for the Twins or the Braves. So I’ll just continue spewing nonsense on a blog. :-)

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

ContactBuzz, loved the movie and the soundtrack, and then saw those two (Glen from Irish band The Frames and the Czech girl) sing all the songs from the movie along with a bunch of Frames songs at Variety Playhouse a couple months ago. That show was as good or even better than the movie.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Lew thats not too bad though 77-44 3.73…..I know that was forever ago in baseball years but…..if he goes say 12-8/3.80 that would make us have the best starting rotation in the NL. Assuming Smoltz and Huddy does their thang.

By cricket

January 26, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Braveheart - Glad I made you laugh dude. I understand your point about scrolling down and that’s what I do. But you must be aware of the term troll and if the one trick pony is not one, then I don’t know who is. At least in his case, I’m with the pansies. Actually I was the one who long time back requested that either AJC give him his own blog or put a standard paragraph mentioning his single point in every new blog posted by DOB. I’m cool with others in the list and I like the fact that braves fans don’t jump on them just because they are not braves fans blogging here. Trust me, that does not happen at the mets and phillies blogs. Anyway, back to baseball. I don’t think twins will let santana walk. They are just driving the hard bargain now because they don’t have to strike the delay right now. They know that they will have a solid market for him even later and they can get similar or better than the deals they could have made. I can see santana landing in NY (both teams will be ready to trade for him, no matter what kind of public posturing steinbrenner jr. does)this season.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Dave:

Do you think Chuck will be given the nod, all things being equal, over JJ or Jo-Jo this spring? Wouldn’t you at least give him some “veteran benefit” unless he just completely melts down in his spring starts?

By Anders

January 26, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

DOB

Performance question you never answered yesterday. How do you explain Soriano’s gaudy numbers (for a relief pitcher) at the Ted last year? I’m thinking all of the NL will be more than happy the Braves gave him a two year deal, at least for the games at the Ted.

Any concerns here or do we just ignore those statistics as they don’t play well through our rose colored glasses?

By Lew

January 26, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Baby Goat Eater-No Hampton, in his prime, was not bad and I did not mean to imply he was-however……he won one less game on average than Santan, had two more losses per season than JOhan and an ERA of almost an entire run per game more-in an era that had lower ERA’s, for the most part. Not to mention those two Cy Youngs.

You’re right-if Hampton can stay healthy, he will help. I would be seriously surprised if he posts 12 wins (I’d be happy with 7-10, really, but don’t count on it), but I sure wouldn’t be surprised if Jurrjens and James did, though. I think Reyes will within the next year or so as well.

By Lew

January 26, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Overlord-Yeah, Livan won’t replace Glavine’s innings or his wins, but he is still the best option (also most realistic) that the Mets had. He will certainly be a better option that Jorge Sosa.

I sincerely doubt they will reel in Santana and I’m not convinced that it would be a good move if they did. They just can’t afford to give up what he will cost in prospects-which the Mets have damn few of to begin with. Santana’s acquisition would cripple them for years.

But then again, when have the Mets EVER made moves that make sense. Shades of Mo Vaughan and Jeromy Burnitz.

By Choppinmama

January 26, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: Interesting article you posted yesterday about the Startups waiting for a chance at the Jordans. Kinda like us poor saps at the recent Fanfest. I wasn’t desperate enough for the autographs, but did wait patiently for the photos with.

Some things are worth waiting for….and I see by the new game start times in 2008 that we’ll have a shorter wait for Braves baseball viewing each day…….ch-ch-ch-changes.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 26, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

DOB Marlins are simply employing the age old tactic of making themselves unattractive to the local market all the while clamoring that due to lack of local support they should be allowed to relocate the franchise to another city. Either Las Vegas or Portland.

Don’t laugh folks, it worked for the Expos……

By Roman Gal

January 26, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Anders Let me try to answer your question.

Soriano had one bad stretch in the entire season. That bad stretch was from July 14-22 where he was giving up homeruns like they were going out of style. And then there was the game against the Astros which was quite a strange game on August 2 where Willie Harris had to play 3B. If you take out that bad stretch and the August 2 game, he only gave up 7 ER at the Ted in 29 innings.

I’m not nit-picking. I know how truly abysmal he was during that stretch. But it was just one stretch. If you look at his overall body of work, it was quite impressive.

By Anders

January 26, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I know a thing or two about bad streaks as the Mets had one of their own last year. Other than that they were quite impressive too. Led the division until September. Not that it counts for much in this crowd.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Anders he had that stretch, but flashes of brilliance like :

May 2-May 30: 0.77 4/4 saves 13k/11.2

Sep 3-Sep 25: 0.69 3/3 saves 17k/13

So if he’s somewhere in between (which he’ll be closer to my numbers than yours) he’ll be a 30 save guy with a 2.00 ish ERA as afull time closer on this team. you know it’s true.

By BabyGoatEater

January 26, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Anders:

by the way

Wagner Aug1-Aug30:

1-2 with 6.23 and 5/8 saves with 8 BB/13

I guess everybody can be human.

By Roman Gal

January 26, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Anders I believe the Mets had a very talented team last year, just like the Braves, who couldn’t quite put it together.

By N8

January 26, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

” I believe the Mets had a very talented team last year, just like the Braves, who couldn’t quite put it together.”

Allow me to re-phrase that line for you. It should have read:

“I believe the Mets had a very talented team last year, just like the Braves did. The main difference is that the Braves couldn’t PUT it all together, and the Mets couldn’t HOLD it together down the stretch.”

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. But I think it’s a fair assessment.

By Roman Gal

January 26, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

N8 Very true.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 26, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for posting Livan’s career numbers vs. the Braves. I thought they’d consistently lit him up, except for that game in ‘97 we won’t talk about (and that, what, basically trashed Eric Gregg’s rep?).

Think of it this way — he might get five or six starts against us this year … Oh the humanity.

By Braveheart

January 26, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Anders, outside of his 3 weeks of hell when he should have been on the DL because the back end of the rotation had abused him and where he gave up 9 earned runs in 6.3 innings, Soriano had a 2.25 ERA at home.

And if you remove two appearances in non save situation in the first half of the season where he was appearing in two different blowouts and gave up a 3 spot in each game, Soriano had a 0.35 ERA over 27 appearances and 26 innings at home.

That’s cherrypicking to the extreme to be sure. But the disparity in home/road split had more to do with the fact that he had a really bad 3 week period due to overuse and appeared 7 times at home during that stretch and had appeared in two nonsave situations in blowouts early in the season.

That could be said about every reliever I’m sure. But if he is so unable to pitch at home, why did he have a 0.35 ERA over 26 innings at home outside of those 2 blowouts and those 3 weeks of hell?

Soriano will be fine. Part of the great thing about being a closer is that you are protected from abuse by overuse like setup men are and you don’t have to pitch for no good reason in blowouts for the most part.

When the game is within 4 runs or less, Soriano’s OPS against was .482 last season. In games where the run differential was 5 runs or more, his OPS against was a horrific 1.188.

Blowouts and non-save situations plague Wagner sometimes don’t they?

I seem to remember a game against the Yankees where Wagner came into a 4-0 game in the ninth and the Yankees won about two years ago.

When a game is within 4 runs, Wagner had a .581 OPS against in 2007. In games where the run differential was 5 runs or more, his OPS against was .782.

By David O'Brien

January 26, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Does anyone find the Tom Brady/Brady Bunch segment that ESPN has run about 57 times this past week to be as painfully unfunny as anything they’ve done? Just brutal. When it starts, I run for the remote for fear of seeing even 10 seconds of it….

Anders, I don’t have “concerns.” Then again, I just cover the team, dude. Obviously you have concerns. Hopefully you can get past that and have a good spring. Good luck to you.

By Random

January 26, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san—

If you like Mike Hampton, check out this clip from You Tube (I think it still works).

It’s a clip of his appearance in the Mexican league, the one where he strained his hamstring.

PS: I also just returned from Japan a few months ago — I was there four years on the Kanto (kam-pai!!!) Plain.

By jbutler

January 26, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

DOB…haven’t been blogging in many a moon - so pardon the dust. But your music faves caught my eye - I think I’m hitting mid-life and needed a change in music; I’ve dusted off the Dinosaur Jr, Cake and Pixies from my old college collection. My kids (yes..I’m feeling old) love the Jrs. version of the Cure song. Unfortunately. Not my favorite. Been able to hit CO for skiing? Amazing powder this year.

By brian

January 26, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

The Tom Brady/Brady Bunch still has nothing on Who’s Now. And although not an ESPN program, still not as painful as Bon Jovi unplugged

Did anyone go to BP sports signing today? They had Heyward there. Just wondering what people’s impressions were meeting him and seeing him.

By Braveheart

January 26, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Ever wonder why the Mets fans blog here?

By Braveheart

January 27, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Ever wonder why the Mets fans blog here? We’re actually nicer to them than their own writers. Read this article from Newsday by Wally Mathews. Describes our sentiments perfectly.

And if you really want a good laugh, check all 200 of the comments of the article by their delusional fans

Mets have done nothing to improve since collapse Wallace Matthews January 25, 2008

New York’s Stealth Franchise, the one that flies so deftly below the radar that it could land at LaGuardia without being noticed, has conducted its offseason the way Rudy Giuliani is running his presidential campaign: hoping to win by doing nothing.

They shed Lastings Milledge, Paul Lo Duca and Tom Glavine. In return, they brought in Ryan Church and Brian Schneider, paid more money to Ramon Castro, Luis Castillo, Jose Reyes and Endy Chavez, and issued a stern warning to Duaner Sanchez to stay out of taxicabs in South Florida at 2 in the morning.

Meanwhile, Johan Santana still is a Twin, A-Rod still is a Yankee and Reyes still is a Met.

And yet, to quote the words of Mets VP David Howard, “If you look at it objectively, [we] are a championship-caliber, playoff-contending team.”

And if you look at it rationally, Howard, or whoever is writing his material, very well may be out of his mind.

They act as if last season was some kind of hallucination, that the historic collapse (they led the Phillies by seven games on Sept. 12 with 17 games to play) never really happened, that despite what the NL East standings showed Oct. 1, the Mets actually were the best team in baseball and, as such, didn’t really need much in the way of tinkering in the offseason.

In fact, when it came to personnel, they didn’t really need anything at all.

All they needed, actually, was a little bit more of your money, because, as general manager Omar Minaya was quick to point out after the Mets lost six of their last seven games of the season, “We spent more days in first place than any other team in baseball.’”

Yeah. And Billy Conn was leading Joe Louis after 12 rounds, the Titanic sailed beautifully for three days and didn’t Lincoln just love the first two hours of the play?

Still, that was reason enough for the Mets to raise ticket prices by about 20 percent for the upcoming season. The reason for this, according to Howard, friend of baseball fans everywhere: “We’re not going to make business decisions based on a two-week period.”

The only saving grace in that statement is that perhaps Howard someday will use the same rationale to hold the line on ticket prices if the Mets ever manage to win a World Series on his watch. (And in other news, Pamela Anderson has asked me to marry her.)

Returning to reality, that means this season you will pay more to see the same team, only a year older. You know this is not the fault of Minaya, who would just love to spend Fred Wilpon’s money, and it probably is not the fault of Howard, who is too busy thinking of new ways to get into your pocket.

That responsibility falls upon the owner, Wilpon, who is on the verge of a Steinbrennerian windfall with the opening of Citi Field, and his son Jeff, who is James Dolan without the guitar.

(It was Jeff Wilpon, de facto GM, who uttered the most infamous line in the recent history of the Mets: “Can somebody tell me why I shouldn’t trade this guy?” The guy was Scott Kazmir.)

What really happened here is that once again, the fans are being forced to pay for the failings of the players. When the Mets bombed out of the playoffs, they lost anywhere from $2 million to $15 million in postseason income. Somebody had to make up that shortfall. It wasn’t going to be the players and it certainly wasn’t going to be the Wilpons.

That leaves, well, you.

Last year, about 3.8 million of you paid your way into Shea, expecting to cash in on the guarantee that was plastered right on top of the dugouts: “Your season has come.” If anything close to that number returns this year, then the Mets’ fan base is either incredibly understanding or understandably numb.

The Mets caught a break when the Yankees performed their own crash-and-burn a week after their own, and there was the Torre Drama and the A-Rod Saga and Syringe-gate, starring Roger Clemens, to distract us from what wasn’t going on in Flushing through October and November and December. Now the excitement about the Giants in the Super Bowl will provide a smoke screen for the next 10 days or so, and if the Mets get real lucky, the Knicks will fire Isiah just before Opening Day.

But sooner or later, the smoke will clear, the air will warm and it will be baseball season again. The Mets will be back in business with roughly the same cast of characters, the same set of built-in excuses, the same big talk and the same small expectations.

But then, you know what they say in Flushing: Around here, there is no offseason.

By uga-brave

January 27, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

once again i enjoy your posts.

i definetly agree with your assesment of certain bloggers that cant take criticism of the braves.

two years in thrid boys!. lew, boss(drunk) lady, it is what it is.

look it was very easy to hate the mets when BOBBY VALENTINE was there, never a more pompous guy ever.

facts are facts now we have to prove ourselves again.

until francoeur, KJ, and b’macc lead us to the postseason again, they might as well be claudell, benedict, and hubbard.

sorry i dont buy into the GWINNETT COUNTY ALL STAR THING.

until francoeur puts up all-star numbers he is what he is. just another good right-fielder.

sorry guys, he is a poor mans jermaine dye.

i hope i am wrong, could not be a better guy, great community guy.

he hits of his front foot, never seen a great hitter ever do that.

By brent a.

January 27, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Regarding the Smoltz-Alexander trade in 1987 …

The Wall Street Journal actually had an article the day the play-offs began (in 1996 I believe, but it may have been 1997) about the Braves, and Cox.

In that article, they specifically addressed the Alexander trade, and noted that Cox signed him, basically with the express intent of trading him to a contender at the deadline.

By Lew

January 27, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

Braveheart-I particularly liked the response that said the Mets collapse last year wasn’t the worst in ML history, but the Yanks tanking against the Red Sox a few years ago was. You’re absolutely right about denial. That makes it so much better knowing it was the second worst collapse in ML history.

By Michael Procton

January 27, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this

Good lord, DOB…you could be no more right about Brady and the Pats. Their lusty coverage of everything that is “the majesty of New England” makes me sick. Even if I didn’t despise the team and the quarterback, I still saw nothing funny, endearing, or redeeming whatsoever about that ridiculous Brady Bunch piece.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 27, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this

G’morning bloggers , enjoying the weekend without football or baseball ?

Dave O’Brien , now that Willy Aybar has been traded and Omar Infante is believed to be possibly starting the season on the D.L , would it not be wise for the Braves to be pursuing another veteran infielder ?

By Nolie

January 27, 2008 6:45 AM | Link to this

I thought that Infante is due back b4 the regular season starts? If so and with Lillibridge and Prado around do you think that’s necessary? I always am a little surprised at the lack of respect that Prado gets on this board. Granted that he has little power, the rest of his offensive game has not been that bad coming up. I mean a .300/.352 throughout his minor league career ain’t all that bad and his plate discipline in AAA actually was somewhat better than Lillibridge’s whose OBP took a hit in the upper minors. I’m aware that BL has more upside, but it seems to me that Prado should get then through any early season problems with Infante?

By richbrave

January 27, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Nolie:

A conclusion from having seen both in Richmond. Prado is closer to ready now with the bat and glove. Lillibridge is already a better glove, but the bat’s not seasoned. Lillibridge has much more upside. So pick your poison, now or later. Another option, keep both until Infante returns then decide.

By nOLIE

January 27, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Thanks richbrave. I think I’d start with Prado and give Brent some more time in AAA then, after Infante gets back. I’d like to see Brent get back on track a little with getting on base more since he likely would be a good leadoff choice if he gets that OBP back up in the high .300s.

By doc

January 27, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

yeah lew, it is real juicy that even when it comes to losing bad the mets and their fan base cant even finish in first place in that and even better are proud of it. dont they see the irony of it all?

real good synopsis of where the mets really are braveheart. thanks.

By David-ATL14

January 27, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Prado can’t play SS at all, so Lillibridge is a lock to start the season in ATL if Infante is on the DL.

Having seen bth play myself, Lillibrige is better now and the gap will only continue to grow IMO.

Prado is hurt by being a singles hitting Middle Infield type that can’t play short and provides neither speed or pop off the bench.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

I just want to share with you guys an article i read this morning in the philadephia Inquire(www.philly.com)about ‘Hate” New York & Boston team. i agree with the writer ‘Hate” is a ugly word. Like me i don’t ‘hate” Mets Fan i just not share their philosophy of how they want to win, there use the $$$$ to approched there goal. New York only franchise there play in NY is the NHL, NBA…the two team of NFL real play in New Jersey, and there player much of them live in NJ, not in NY. I forgot congratulate the City of Atlanta with the New WNBA franchise. Also the other day in the Sport radio in Philadephia was a comment that Atlanta is one of the worse city with pro franchise team…i desagree, Atanta is one of few City with all Pro Sport franchise(something or someone doing thin wright ..did you)

By Lew

January 27, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Mets Fans are more than welcome here on this blog. However, do not be surprised if I cut them no slack when they talk crap about the Braves. For that matter, NO ONE who gives the Braves undue crap can expect much else from me. Talk truth when you point out Braves’ flaws, but if you take it too far or talk nonsense, you will hear about it. That’s the way it works.

By N8

January 27, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

There I was completely wasting, out of work and down. All inside it’s so frustrating as I drift from town to town.

Feel as though nobody cares if I live or die. So I might as well begin to put some action in my life.

Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew

So much for the golden future, I can’t even start. I’ve had every promise broken, there’s anger in my heart.

*You don’t know what it’s like, you don’t have a clue. If you did you’d find yourselves doing the same thing too.

Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew

You don’t know what it’s like!!

Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew

Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew Breaking the Lew, breaking the Lew

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Correction: about WNBA..i tried to say Philadelphia…not Atlanta

By richbrave

January 27, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Nolie:

One other factor. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, Prado’s been up and down quite a bit for two years between Atlanta and Richmond. Lillibridge has not. Cox and his staff should have a pretty good line on Prado’s current abilities, and maybe not so much with Lillibridge. Another reason to have AAA in Gwinnett.

An aside. I think Braves administration is right on the money with that move, as much as I hate losing the Bravos.

By PatioDaddio

January 27, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

David-ATL14 I completely agree. Having a backup SS is essential. Bobby just loves Lillibridge. Spring Training will reveal a lot about where some players are in the pecking order. A spring training trade for a temporary Utility player would not shock me either.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Sorry guys..my brain not function well this morning…i don’t follow the NBA anyway….Mean Atlanta newest frinchise WNBA…It difficult live in one city anf have my brain in another(Atlanta)…Lew i always agree with you, we don’t hate mets fan…we probably love them…but some where we have to draw the line.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

David-ATL, I agree with your 10:13 post. Well put.

By Overlord

January 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

I wonder if pedro martinez and carlos delgado still think “we (the mets) are so good, sometimes we get bored during games”. I guess they have had time during winter to find out they were not that good eh.

Even Gary Cohen, muts broadcaster, said he couldnt believe major league players could say something like that.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Coach, I don’t see why they’t pursue another veteran infielder to replace a guy (Infante) they don’t expect to miss more than a couple or three weeks. Not when they have Lillibridge and Prado. No reason to waste a roster spot and the $1 mill or more a veteran infielder would cost you, not to mention a veteran at that price, what you could get now, would probably be a weak player.

Bottom line, they made the Aybar trade AFTER Infante got hurt. That should give you clear indication of Braves’ view of this. They do not think they need another INF. If Infante had a serious injury, yes. But he does not….

JBUTLER, if you wanna update your music collection with some new bands that perhaps harken a bit to our golden era of “college rock” or alt rock or whatever, I’d strongly recommend two new CDs that came out Tuesday that happen to be by Atlanta-area bands, the Whigs and Selmanaires.

Saw a tremendous show by the Selmanaires last night at The Earl, with a great set by Anna Cramer and the Lost Cause before the Selmanaires took the stage at nearly 1 a.m.

(Cramer and Selmanaires were both having release party for CDs they put out Tuesday on rising local label International Hits.)

Selmanaires, to me, seem heavily influenced by Talking Heads and Gang of Four, among others. Great stuff last night, better live than on record, and their records are both great (they have two CDs out, new one’s called “The Air Salesmen”).

Whigs are getting a lot of national acclaim and rave reviews for their new CD, “Mission Control.” My take after a couple of listens is that it might just be as good as their sublime “Give ‘Em All a Big Fat Lip” CD from two years ago.

Great bands, both. As was Anna Kramer and the Lost Cause (strong band behind her), with her blendy country/punk ballads and rave-ups. Place was packed and crowd was really buzzing. Really good show.

By Lew

January 27, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Jersey Gil-No, I hate them, but then again, I AM from Philadelphia, originally.

Nathan-Can we get Rob Halford to sing it or am I stuck with Ripper?

By N8

January 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Lew

When in doubt…..ALWAYS go with Halford.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 27, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

On batting lead off. The Braves just don’t have anyone with true “burner” speed at the major league level. However, they do have a plethora of players who can set the table so to speak who can get on base ahead of the big bats.

Lillibridge is a better player right now than Prado. I could not classify him as a true lead off hitter but his bat is not going to hurt you.

The art of base stealing has not exactly been one of the Braves strong suits for a very long time.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Mets fan you can see all your prime player training in Puerto Rico, just go to Primerahora.com(news paper in San juan)link to the Beisbol and you can see picture of the event.I guess by the time the season start all will be tired.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB With the Braves xtra Arms (James,Reyes,bennet) that the braves will be interesting on Bedard trade? look like Baltimore going to trade him next week. Look the Braves has to many Lefty now.

By TexasBrave

January 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Who gets sent down when Infante comes off the DL? I know most everyone would say Lillibridge, but as much as Bobby likes the kid I can see him remaining with the team and Prado or someone else shipped off.

If Lillibridge is kept then I also see Bobby using him in a mini-platoon with KJ against some of the lefties that have given him trouble in the past. Maybe even spell Chipper a game or so just to get him some extra at bats.

However, I would like to see him sent down for some seasoning upon Infante’s return. One huge question in my mind is whether or not to get him some significant experience over at third since SS and 2nd base is blocked and the possibility of Chipper getting hurt and his inevitable retirement. Prado and Infante are OK for short term replacement but not long term.

By Lew

January 27, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Jersey Gil-You’re right-they do have a lot of lefties. However, Hampton can’t be counted on and Reyes has options left, so he could go to Richmond to get more experience and then brought up if needed, or next year when Glavine may be gone. I think Bennett is a RHP.

By nOLIE

January 27, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Prado can’t play SS at all, so Lillibridge is a lock to start the season in ATL if Infante is on the DL.David Atl

Yes I understand that, but Infante very well might start the season healthy, and if not then when he does get back I would like to see Brent work some more on getting his plate discipline back close to where it was rather than the .330 something that he had in AAA. 333 ain’t nuttin’ special for a leadoff hitter at all

By TexasBrave

January 27, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

You know the AJC could save a lot of money if they would just fire all their movie, food and music critics and just link up with this blog.

With DOB’s expertise in all the above the AJC could rid themselves of a lot of overhead. The question is would they pay him extra for these services or continue to pay him squat for the good job he is doing in his columns and this blog?

By Overlord

January 27, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

So much for biggest collapses of all time. What all this tells us is:

If you want to watch big thing happen, you watch new york teams, No. 1 and No. 2 biggest chokes of all time.

By McFann

January 27, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

sorry i dont buy into the GWINNETT COUNTY ALL STAR THING.

until francoeur puts up all-star numbers he is what he is. just another good right-fielder.*

sorry guys, he is a poor mans jermaine dye.

i hope i am wrong, could not be a better guy, great community guy.

he hits of his front foot, never seen a great hitter ever do that. Uga-Brave

Can’t believe this, but I have to agree with Uga-Brave.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Lew I just put Bennett Name out there as a Trade chip..i know he is RHP…But the Braves now has a group of Young Player in the Minor to get a good trade for Bedard.

By Robert

January 27, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

ALL the turnover - My butt. They turned over by exchanging one All-Star for another (big deal), or one bit part for another (big deal). And the HOF trio to lead off the rotation DIDNT turn over for HOW long?

The streak. All I can say is this - The streak was DESPITE, not BECAUSE OF, Bobby Cox. It so distorts peoples views and attitude. If the dang Braves played in the Little League WS, they’d probably win 15 or even 16 in a row (even facing the occasional Danny Almonte) It wouldnt mean CRAP.

I’ll give you a streak. Wanna have a go at a streak?

1. The Houston Astros went 43 YEARS before winning a playoff series. Who was the manager of the team the Astros popped their cherry on?

2. Who was the manager of the first team Dusty Baker (oft criticized for misusing pitchers and generally consider a miserable manager) could beat in the playoffs?

3. Who was the manager of the last team that the Kansas City Royals were able to beat in the playoffs

4. Whose teams, while continuing to feature outstanding rosters loaded with at LEAST 3 HOFers EVERY year, havent won a playoff series in 8 years?

5. Whose teams are 0-8 in their last 8 playoff games against the Yankees another franchise that Braves fans divert their attention to in order to make excuses for their team

6. Whose has managed teams FAR better than their playoff competition but needed fluke plays like Andruw Jones drawing a walk in extras or Francisco Cabrera getting a hit and Sid Bream beating out a throw at the same time?

Like I said before. Let Torre manage the 99 Braves and give Cox the 99 Yankees, and the Braves beat the Indians or the Red Sox in the World Series

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

I Think if we can get Bedard, we have a good future in ours Rotation: Hudson,Bedard,Jurjjen,Reyes,Cuevas.

By Robert

January 27, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

“He never makes you feel like you’re the one who loses the game, even if you just made an error to let in the winning run. He’ll try to make it seem like it was a fluke. He’ll say, ‘Did you see that ball hit that rock?’”

Perfect. The kids voted him the best babysitter. Yeah, that means I’m definately gonna let him watch MY kids.

Great coaches and managers get the most out of their players. That means tapping into every last ounce of their potential, which, by definition, means getting the players to go above and beyond their comfort zone. Discomfort. PAIN. Suffering

How many guys loved Lombardi, or Knight, while they were playing for them?

Son, the fact that the players all love him is a sure sign that he is soft on them

What WILL this blog say when the Braves start having big playoff success the moment Donk leaves? What excuse(s) will they conjure up? This is going to be fun, hopefully starting in ‘09

By McFann

January 27, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Robert

What WILL you say when the Braves start having NO playoff success the moment Bobby leaves? What excuse(s) will you conjure up? This is going to be “fun”, maybe starting in ‘10.

By JerseyGil

January 27, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

DOB I like to have your opinion in the latest CD of My favorite Band..The Eagle” Long road Out of eden”…I know few day a go i post my desagree about to much Music in this blog…but accept my Apoligies, on this. My Wife on Xmas give me that CD, i know they don’t have a good Review, But i like a few Song in this Album, like “Somebody”, and ‘Business as usual” What you think about this song.

By Robert

January 27, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

“What WILL you say when the Braves start having NO playoff success the moment Bobby leaves?”

As if they’ve been having playoff success while he’s been here?

By Doctor Wilson

January 27, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

The obsession the Bobby Cox stalker (Robert) has is a very serious malfunction. Generally when an individual minority opinion insists they are right and the individual majority opinion is wrong is an illness that can be controlled and corrected with medication. It is known as “I don’t have a problem everyone else does”

That individual should seek professional help and someone should contact Mr. Cox and enlighten him to the dangers Robert represents.

By greg

January 27, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Robert: I’m not a big Cox fan either. But almost every Braves team under Cox, except ‘96 had a serious weakness that manifested during the post-season. In 93, it was the softball pitcher for closer concept. Greg McMichael was a bad joke. In 91, we lost our leadoff hitter going into the postseason because he was a coke head. Great guy, but a coke head nonetheless. Any team after Time-Warner took over was riddled with holes. Rico Brogna as a replacement for Andres? Hello! John (I can’t find the plate) Rocker as closer. Remember all that hype about him hitting 100 mph. Not once in a game did I see him top 96. His curve was a minus. His brain was a double minus.

As for Joe Torre, any Braves fan who was around when he managed our team remembers one important thing about Joe Torre. He was terrible at managing pitchers. Our young starters threw out their arms in 82. In 84, he even let Phil Niekro go. If we had had Phil in 84, we might have gone to the Series.

How many rings do you think Joe Torre would have if he worked under the same budgetary restraints as Cox? I don’t think any because he wouldn’t have all of the horses that he did under the Yankees’ buy a championship program. The only Braves team that was ever comparable to any of the championship ’90s Yankees’ team was ‘96. And even then, the last man on the Yankees roster was Wade Boggs. Can you name the final bat in Bobby’s lineup that year. Torre’s worst player was an aging Wade Boggs. That says an awful lot about the buying power of the Yankees.

By brian

January 27, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

we are not getting Bedard

By Efrim

January 27, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

We are definetly not getting Bedard.

By brian

January 27, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager and the Braves would not have had their success without him.

That being said, Robert does have a few valid points (that are hard to find in his continuous rant).

Bobby Cox can be too much a players manager. Sometimes I think the Braves could use someone to light a fire under them. Look at the last year - his stubborness kept Andruw Jones in the cleanup role until we got Tex. Jones should have been dropped down well before the trade with McCann and Francoeur moving up. There are too many instances where he stubbornly sticks to his platoon. Many pitching moves leaves people scratching their heads.

Cox does have his faults and Robert is right in that Cox has made mistakes. What Robert leaves out is that you can make a lot of these criticisms of any manager in baseball (or coach in any sport). They are never perfect and coaches are always second guessed. Otherwise sports writers, announcers, and bloggers would have nothing to talk about. Cox has been superb for the Braves, even with his faults, and no one else could have lead the Braves to their success.

I would like to see the Braves play with some fire this year - what we saw towards the end of the year. The Braves will be fine, and barring injury, will be back in the playoffs in October.

By N8

January 27, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

McFann “What WILL you say when the Braves start having NO playoff success the moment Bobby leaves?”

Now I realize that Robert can be a little over the top (OK….a LOT over the top), with his desire to have a new man…er….farm animal, sitting in the dugout.

But do you realize what question you’ve just asked?

Come on dude, it’s been since 1999 that we actually GOT to the WS, and that was a GIFT from Kenny Rogers (while Henderson and Bonilla sat in the clubhouse playing Go-Fish).

So, by my watch, we’re essentially on 8 years “running” of “NO playoff success”, as you so put it.

So my answer for Robert is as follows. I guess we’ll just “wait until the next year” until the NEXT “crap-shoot”…er….MLB playoffs start over again. Like we ALWAYS do.

Deny all you want that Bobby isn’t a horrible manager. You’re not gonna get me to disagree with you. Darn near NOBODY I’d rather have from April - September.

But come October, you’d have to be blind to realize that the man has either A) A horrible track record. or B) Some of the worst luck known to man kind.

Hmmmmm.

By wiki

January 27, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

I mostly disagree that the Braves’ teams from ‘91 to ‘05 had serious weaknesses that manifested during the postseason……maybe with the exception of lack of pitching depth, especially the bullpen, in ‘04 and ‘05. The ‘99 team overachieved and was no match for a team with better talent but, in a negative sense, nothing on that team jumps at you. Rocker was actually “lights out” in postseason play (20.2 IP, 0.00 ERA). While any manager will be eternally second guessed, especially during postseason play, I do not believe that the blame for an inordinate number of playoff losses can be placed on Cox’s game decisions. The recurring theme is that the players that produced during the regular season did not when the chips were down. Closers have underperformed….soft tossers like McMichael as well as flame throwers like Wohlers and Farnsworth. Starters have underperformed (Glavine in ‘02…..Glavine, Maddux, and Millwood in ‘00). How many hits did Sheffield have in the ‘02 & ‘03 postseason series? These are just a very few examples of key players that didn’t show up in the postseason.

One can make just as many arguments that Cox made the right moves in specific playoff games. The players in the following situations did produce when called on:

-Pedro Borbon got the last out and save stepping in for an ineffective Wohlers in Game 4 of the ‘95 WS.

-Also in ‘95…McMichael brought in the game; threw a DP ground ball to save game 1 of the NLCS vs Cincinnati.

There are other cases from other seasons but these are examples of moves done against “conventional” thinking that worked because the players called on produced.

What “right” moves did Francona make last year? He played his players that he played during the season. They produced for him. Amazing how the players can make the manager look either so incredible or so horrendous.

By N8

January 27, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Greg

Good points…..to an extent. Would we have one the 91 WS if Otis was there? Maybe, maybe not.

But I can tell you this much, had we won that WS, Lonnie Smith (deek by Knoblauch and all), would have been the MVP (only other options were Lemke or Smoltz).

Blaming 1993 on McMichael? Pretty weak statement there, I think. I remember the clutch hitting doing us in, as opposed to our closer blowing leads. Even with Maddux, Glavine, Avery AND Smoltz, the Phillies out pitched us, as far as the rotation goes.

Brogna for Big Cat. Not a person in this world (even Rico’s family members) that can dispute that statement.

Blaming Rocker? Really. Come on man. The 100 MPH fastball wasn’t his out pitch. Who cares if he “only hit 96”? Follow up that 96 MPH fastball with that frickin NASTY slider of his, and most hitters (especially lefties) will tell you that he had PLENTY of velocity on the heater.

You’re on the right path. Just have the WRONG details in your head, that did us in.

By N8

January 27, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

wiki

Very well said. Most of the time that is exactly the case. It’s on the players.

One of my biggest complaints of Bobby over the years, has been his penchant to have a 3rd catcher on the roster.

In 14 trips to the post season, that has NEVER been an issue for us. Yet, as Greg pointed out, the Yankees had Boggs as their “last out”. We’ve had guys like Eddie Perez, Jerry Willard (who came through with the 105 foot sac-fly in the 91 WS, miraculously).

Or even worse yet, is it any coincidence that the ONE world series we won, was when Bobby decided to let Javy catch Maddux in game 1 of the 95 WS?

And people wonder why, with guys like Eddie Perez, Charlie O’Brien, Damon Berryhill, and Henry Blanco WHY Maddux never had any run support in the post-season.

Little/BIG decisions like that.

I agree with wiki that for every horrible decision (bringing in the LH Leibrandt in extra innings to face Puckett - a guy Puckett was familiar with), there are decisions that come back to help (squeezing in game one of the 95 WS).

Of course, I’m with Robert on the thought that Hargrove is about the only manager on the planet that WOULD NOT have seen that coming.

Bottom line, is that MOST of our post-season failures fall on the players. SOME of them fall on Bobby. But the flipside is true. MOST of our victories are due to the players, and SOME of them are due to Cox.

After all…..it’s just a crap-shoot. :-)

By Yars

January 27, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

DOB….any word yet on which non-roster invitees the Braves may invite to spring training? I wonder if they’ll invite a couple of infielders, just in case Lillibridge doesn’t have the kind of spring we all hope he has & would be better off playing everyday for little while longer in Richmond, than riding the bench in Atlanta. That being said, let’s say Lillibridge does have a solid spring. I just can’t see him getting much playing time. Yunel playing everyday at SS, KJ playing everyday at 2B. I think he’d be better off playing everyday in Richmond. I can’t see KJ being in a platoon role this season against LH pitching. If the Braves saw KJ as a platoon player at 2B, I think they would have already traded him by now. Also, we you ever into the band, Concrete Blonde?

By Braveheart

January 27, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

This is for Anders, who obsesses over Glavine saying he was only disappointed, not devastated about that final game with the Mets:

Here’s an excerpt from the Marty Noble piece at MLB.com:

Glavine did ache because of his performance against the Marlins in the Mets’ final game. It sickened him, troubled him, interrupted his sleep. It disappointed him and — yes, in a baseball sense only — it did devastate him.

There. Satisfied?

“Looking at it from a baseball standpoint, there haven’t been too many, if any, lower or more upsetting moments in my career,” Glavine said earlier this month. “I was angry how it went, extremely disappointed … upset, embarrassed. You name it.”

But he wouldn’t allow for “devastation.” Not in the world he knows.

“My parents always taught me to have perspective, to recognize where parts of your life really fit in the overall picture,” Glavine said. “When you become a parent, you see things differently. The health and welfare of your family comes first. Maybe I wasn’t prepared to hear that word — devastated. As disappointed as I was, I didn’t think about devastation, not because of a baseball game.

“My son is 11, he has a friend who’s going to lose his leg to cancer. That is devastation. That was an awful game, a terrible outcome for us. But it wasn’t life and death. What I said — how I answered that question after the game — was a reflection of how I was raised, that the game is fun and important and sometimes disappointing. But there is a point where your disappointment ends.

“We lost that game, and I wish we’d won. I know a lot of people were disappointed by how it turned out. I’m not happy they’re disappointed. But anyone who thinks I took it lightly or questioned my desire to win knows nothing about me.”

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Yars, we had that list here weeks ago, the non-roster invites. It was the day that Javy signed. If you weren’t around then, I’m sure I can find it.

There might be a few more invites, but they haven’t announced ‘em yet.

KJ isn’t platooning.

Yes, I was definitely into Concrete Blonde. They had two or three strong albums.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

OK, here’s the list from Dec. 17. I’ll check to see if they’ve added anyone else, but this was it (Braves don’t like to have a lot of non-roster invites crowding camp roster):

In addition to Lopez, the Braves invited five other minor league free agents to spring training: catchers Miller and J.C. Boscan, outfielder Joe Borchard, right-handed pitcher Jorge Campillo, and infielder Javier Guzman.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

yeah, but Braveheart: Marty Noble has only covered the Mets for a couple or three decades. He’s not quite as privy to the team’s inside-the-clubhouse doings as Anders.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe you guys are going to actually pick right back up where you left off with the one-thought robot last fall. Seriously, it’s one thing for me to dispute everything Anders says (at least he mixes it up a bit), but quite another to even entertain the absurd premise that what’s-his-name puts forth. I mean, come on, folks.

Just read Stark’s article. Don’t read anything from a member of the Atlanta media regarding the manager. Just do a search for stuff written by folks from Philly, New York, Chicago and other places about the manager. And then if you really feel it’s necessary to defend him … well, I can’t imagine why you would feel such a need, but apparently some of you believe that our obsessed friend has any platform or impact outside this space?

Seriously, let him go. It’s harmless. Absurd, but harmless. It reads like rantings of a mad man.

By Efrim

January 27, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Bedard to Seattle deal is about done. Here is Rotoworlds take. Here is the link: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/01/bedardjonesdealgoing_down.html

Adam Jones is flying to Baltimore for a physical on Monday, suggesting the Orioles and Mariners have agreed to an Erik Bedard trade.

Jones said he’s been told the deal is done, though he doesn’t know who is going with him to Baltimore. Asked by the Seattle Times tonight, George Sherrill said he had heard nothing to suggest he’s being included. Top prospects Chris Tillman, Jeff Clement, Carlos Triunfel and Wladimir Balentien are among the players whose names have come up in rumors.

By BabyGoatEater

January 27, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

32-20/W-L

3.97/ERA

1.44/WHIP

Guess who it is? Mike Hampton the three years he pitched for Atlanta.

Not too shabby, heh.

There you go Lew, some more stats to prove he’s not Santana, but he’ll still be a very good pitcher in my mind.

By N8

January 27, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

DOB

You know that while I often “complain” about some of Bobby’s moves during the season, that I respect what he does for the team (any team he would be part of), over the 162 game grind.

But don’t you find it a bit “odd” (to say the least), that in fourteen years the ONLY two constants in the playoff runs are Smoltz (who NOBODY can blame for multiple series being lost), and Bobby.

The players change so much, (which is a testament to him getting the team to post-season year after year), to place ALL the blame on the players.

Listen. I’m not saying he’s a bad manager. I’m not looking for you to go on record saying he’s a bad manager.

I know you are a fan of Kansas in the college ranks of sports. I’m NOT a big college sports buff, so excuse my lack of knowledge of who the coaches are, or the history of bowl games and final four appearances.

But if Kansas had a coach that got them to the final four every year for 14 years, and only one one title, wouldn’t you be a bit “upset” to say the least that the head coach of your favorite team couldn’t “seal the deal”? Taking into consideration, that the 14 year “ride” was a blast, and should be enjoyed JUST BY ITSELF.

But some more titles would be nice, wouldn’t they?

By brian

January 27, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

DOB - it means that everyone is gearing up for the season when we start reading raving rants and the responses to them. Baseball, Hot dogs, Apple Pie, and someone’s ravings rants.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 27, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

N8,

College and professional sports aren’t comparable, the big reason being that in college you have no control over your roster. That’s why coaches who get their basketball teams to the Final Four with some regularity get as much respect as those who don’t get there often and win the occasional championship.

The Final Four really is a crap shoot. The MLB playoffs less so — more games, for one thing.

It’s been said before (including by me) but the Braves’ big shortcoming during the streak was the lack of power arms. Other things equal, those are the guys who win short series, and with the exception of Smoltz, the Braves haven’t had many.

I think Mr. One Note would gripe unless the Braves had won eight or ten during the 14-year run.

And with multiple rounds of playoffs that’s asking a whole lot. Just ask Joe Torre.

By Steve McP

January 27, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Just think we will actually have some baseball to talk about soon!

By Lew

January 27, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Baby Goat Eater-I’ve always been a supporter of Hampton. Even though he was good at one time (though only to Santana’s level for one year), putting trust in him to come back and do it again after missing two and a half years, with two elbow surgeries and now a hamstring injury is going to take more faith than I have.

I sincerely hope he can come back to contribute and if he does would be willing to sign cheap with the Braves for a year or two afterwards, but I ain’t holding my breath until I turn Braves’ blue.

By Steve McP

January 27, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

That should have read NEW baseball

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 27, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , your response was about what I expected. Unfortunately , I must be the bearer of bad news.

The left side of the Braves infield is woefully inadequate in depth.

As usual , I did my homework. Going back over the course of the past ten seasons. The Braves have used no less than an average of eight infielders on the left side. Last season , between 3B/2B and SS the Braves utilized no less than nine players. The 2006 season saw eight players on the left side.

Since July of last year , the Braves have traded SS Elvis Andrus , SS Chase Fontaine , SS Edgar Renteria , 2B/3B Willy Aybar and non-tendered 2B/3B Pete Orr along with utility infielder Chris Woodward.

Omar Infante has been the only replacement and he might start the season on the D.L.

I hope you are beginning to see the big picture.

Down in AAA Richmond and AA Mississippi the Braves have exactly ONE infielder on the left side who is ready and capable of contributing to the big league team in Brent Lillibridge and he will make the team out of spring training if Infante is on the D.L.

Frank Wren has done a great job of building depth into the pitching and outfield.

But when looking at it from the perspective of past history , he has raped the organization of depth on the infield.

Between 3B/SS/2B : Chipper Jones , Kelly Johnson , Yunel Escobar , Omar Infante , Martin Prado and Brent Lillibridge are it. There is nothing else backing them up. and that isn’t nearly enough.

The numbers don’t lie , the Braves are two or three bodies short on the left side. They have six and need at least eight between Atlanta and Richmond/Mississippi.

By Overlord

January 27, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Robert you need to take a vacation…..stop thinking about bobby. I hate 50% of his decision also but you wont make anybody here agree with you. Everybody thinks you have gone too far with your comments on him. Im not a cox fan. Just take a deep breath. Time will show if you are right or wrong, your point has already been made.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

OK

By Overlord

January 27, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

*Coach maybe the thinking for that shortage in IF is that all of them but chipper are young and durable. I know KJ was out in 2006 but in 2007 he did just fine physically and playing in 2B helps prevent another injury to his arm. Infante is on DL but he anyone can get a broken hand if hit by a baseball. So maybe the thinking is just that this bunch of kids can cover the 162 even if 1 of the 6 goes down. As a matter of fact with infante down right now, everything still looks good. And he might be just fine by the time chipper goes down (if he does).

I get your point, 6 IFs is a thin IF, but i think theyll be just fine. The problem will be if chipper and Yunel or KJ go down at the same time for a long period of time. But i also think that if something like that happens, it doesnt matter if we have 10 IF, we will be in big trouble.

By David O'Brien

January 27, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

N8, bad analogy. Since the NCAA tournament was expanded to 32 teams in 1975 (it’s been expanded six times since then) no team has ever come remotely close to making 14 consecutive Final Fours.

Duke’s come closest, going to 10 Final Fours in 19 seasons from 1986 to 2004, according to my quick glance at the year-by-years. They won three titles in those 10 appearances. Remarkable run of success.

There are more than 300 teams playing D-1 hoops, from which four make the Final Four; there are only handful of teams in a baseball division. Totally different situations.

You needn’t make an analogy — of COURSE the Braves should have won a couple more titles.

I just don’t think you’ll find many, if any, who played the game or work inside the industry who’ll agree with the suggestion that the Braves would’ve won several titles were it not for Cox. For one simple reason: Baseball people will tell you the Braves would never, ever have made anywhere near 14 consecutive playoff appearances were it not for Cox.

By Overlord

January 27, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Coach maybe the thinking for that shortage in IF is that all of them but chipper are young and durable. I know KJ was out in 2006 but in 2007 he did just fine physically and playing in 2B helps prevent another injury to his arm. Infante is on DL but he anyone can get a broken hand if hit by a baseball. So maybe the thinking is just that this bunch of kids can cover the 162 even if 1 of the 6 goes down. As a matter of fact with infante down right now, everything still looks good. And he might be just fine by the time chipper goes down (if he does).

I get your point, 6 IFs is a thin IF, but i think theyll be just fine. The problem will be if chipper and Yunel or KJ go down at the same time for a long period of time. But i also think that if something like that happens, it doesnt matter if we have 10 IF, we will be in big trouble.

By N8

January 28, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

DOB

“N8, bad analogy. Since the NCAA tournament was expanded to 32 teams in 1975 (it’s been expanded six times since then) no team has ever come remotely close to making 14 consecutive Final Fours.”

OK. Like I said, my knowledge of the college sports is mediocre at best. (I only started recently following college football - ONLY so I have a clue who the players being drafted are). Maybe I should have said, any team making the tournament, or maybe the Sweet 16.

Anyhow, it wasn’t really the point. I just know that you’re a huge Kansas fan. So I wanted to strike a nerve with you, since you work for a newspaper that covers the Braves. While you may have become a fan of them, or certain individuals, I’m certain without even having to ask you, that you are nowhere near as passionate about them as most of us are. Nothing wrong with that. But you get my point.

Besides. NOBODY is EVER gonna win 14 division titles in a row, in MLB either, or do you disagree.

It’s not that Cox does a “bad” job, or that he makes repeatedly poor decisions.

I just happen to be of the opinion that EVERY REASON that his teams succeed from games 1-162, are the SAME EXACT REASONS that most of the time they fail against, what I consider to be equal opponents. Those reasons being, his calmness, and not letting the team get too high or too low. But man alive! Sometimes there’s a time and a place for some energy, and rally caps, and Kenny Lofton’s music in the clubhouse.

The last two years with all the “kids” have been the closest to the 91 & 92 “magic” (and those teams didn’t win it all - but those seasons were magical), that any of the teams have come. Unfortunately, even though the “energy” and public display of enthusiasm (I won’t accuse guys like Glavine and Maddux of NOT being competitive and “into it”….that would be STUPID), was higher, the over all talent wasn’t enough.

Every year there seems to be a team that is seemingly “over-matched” in the MLB playoffs, that upsets a greater opponent or overachieves.

I honestly think the LAST TIME that the Braves “overachieved” were in the 91 & 92 NLCS’s. IMO, those were the only two teams (the 91 & 92 Pirates), that clearly should have been favorites.

When you are the favorite, and you lose. I consider it choking. When you are the favorite EVERY YEAR for about 10 years going into spring training, and don’t finish the job, what is that called?

Again. Not really ragging on Cox. Because you are right. Without him (since Maddux left), I’m not sure we get there anymore. But you know where I stand when the BIG-3 were in the rotation together. It would be really hard to have messed that up, more often than not.

By Robert

January 28, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

N8, and the rest.

A team with a great roster can play the regular season with the philosophy of letting good things come to them - The Braves of the mid 90’s could AFFORD the 10 or so games Cox cost them every year and STILL win the division (except for 94 that everyone always conveniently treats like it just didnt exist). Heck, something went wrong with those teams, chances are the next time out Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Avery,Neagle, or Millwood would get it right and they’d win another 5 of 8.

Nowadays, the team cant afford 10 extra losses courtesy of the manager. Those 10 losses put us a half dozen or so games out of the playoff picture.

DOB - Let’s assume hypothetically that the Braves main rival (whoever you happen to think it to be in any given year) hires an idiot manager. Would you tell them so? Or would you say stuff about what a great guy he is, what nice things people say about him, how such and such players loved playing for him, and so on

I thought so. So much for what anyone outside Atlanta says about Cox. And the Atlanta media is either totally brainwashed or doesnt have the nads to call a spade a spade.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 28, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

Overlord , because Chipper has spent time on the fifteen day D.L. during parts of the past three season , I don’t expect this to change in 2008.

Hoss has bad wheels , just like Mantle did. We just have to live with it , for better or worse.

The depth problem I blogged about earlier is something that can be fixed between now and the start of the season. I just wanted to voice my concerns since we are so close to the start of spring training.

One or more players like Cory Koskie , Dallas McPherson , Tony Graffanino or Morgan Ensberg could be signed to a minor league contract with an invite to spring training.

The depth issue is something way down the list of priority’s at the moment. However , if it isn’t addressed , could come back to bite the Braves in the butt if ignored.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 28, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

Rumors are flying that Eric Bedard is headed to the Seattle Mariners.

At any rate , I’m looking forward to Bobby Cox leading this Braves team back into the playoffs.

Our Hall of Fame manager is simply the best in the game. Admired , respected , humble to a fault , loved by his players , a great human being , always POSITIVE , the man even likes umpires.

To those who would espouse otherwise, I say. People who project negativity typically have low self-esteem. They feel badly about themselves, and their negativity is simply a reflection of those feelings and all negativity is an illusion created by the limited mind to protect and defend itself.

By Nolie

January 28, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this

But if Kansas had a coach that got them to the final four every year for 14 years, and only one one title, wouldn’t you be a bit “upset” to say the least that the head coach of your favorite team couldn’t “seal the deal”? Taking into consideration, that the 14 year “ride” was a blast, and should be enjoyed JUST BY ITSELF.N8

FSU had a 14 year run unmatched by any other college team in history. They were in the top 5 every year and the next longest such run was about half of that, but in that entire time they “only” won 2 titles. Sh*t happens. Certainly the recent failure of the highpriced Yanks to win anything in 6 or 7 years withy the same manager and high level of players, or the fgact that the wildcard team has won so many titles lately, should show just how much of a crashoot it really is in a string of short sweries. C’mon, St Louis?

By NoOneImporTant

January 28, 2008 2:24 AM | Link to this

Mets have Santana.

Fernando Martinez, Alay Soler, Jon Niese, and Mike Carp.

By Nolie

January 28, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this

You got a link to that on Santana? Cause at 6AM I’m still not seeing any stories on it.

By richbrave

January 28, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

ROBERT:

From reading your posts, I get the feeling you don’t like Bobby Cox.

By Josh H

January 28, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Just curiously:

Is there going to be a “Camp Roger” this year?

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 28, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

NoOneImporTant — nor am i, at 9am, seeing any stories about your Mets-Santana deal involving Fernando Martinez as the centerpiece with some scraps.

i’m just curious, why would the twins want Jon Niese, a guy who doesn’t seem to have a high ceiling and hasn’t pitched above single-A ball and has an ERA of 4.09 in 293 innings pitched? i guess it’s his K total (276 in 293 IP) although his WHIP isn’t too great (1.40). ditto mike carp, a 1B with 51 HR in 381 games and 1358 ABs? (it looks like he’s got power, but…) especially after just signing their MLB 1B Justin Morneau to a 6-year deal? could somebody with access to the necessary info let us know where these two guys rate in the Mets farm system?

and finally, how could the Mets include Alay Soler (who is now a Pittsburgh prospect) when they released him on March 13, 2007? oops.

By KC

January 28, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Dayn Perry is calling Mark Kotsay “Vital to His Team’s 2008 Chances”.

What an idiot.

By KC

January 28, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Dayn Perry: “If he can post an OBP in the .330s, hit some doubles and play good defense, the Braves can get by. If he puts up 2007-type numbers or succumbs to injury yet again, then Atlanta could fall short in its efforts to catch up to the Phillies and Mets.”

Does this guy honestly believe Mark Kotsay is going to decide the Braves chances in the NL East???

Atlanta’s chances will be decided in the rotation, and by people like Soriano, Moylan, Jones, Frenchy, McCann, and Tex… NOT Mark Kotsay.

Sure, it’s it will be a big plus to keep him healthy and have a solid defensive-minded veteran glove in CF. But he is not the deciding factor for this team, and it’s beyond idiotic to even suggest that he is.

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Very funny video about Roger Clemens and steroids(at least funny to me), enjoy link

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Roger confesses everybody uses steroids, even his wife and children, LOL.

By Shaun

January 28, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Sounds to me like Perry is simply saying that it’s going to make it tougher is they can’t get anything out of Kotsay beyond minimal production, the Braves may face an up-hill battle.

“If he puts up 2007-type numbers or succumbs to injury yet again, then Atlanta could fall short in its efforts to catch up to the Phillies and Mets.” Key word: could.

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Roger Clemens in 60 minutes for those who didnt see it.

Someone here one day said B12 was some kind of code for a steroid or something like that, and that aint true. B12 is just vitamin B12, plain and simple.

I want to know where did the person that said that got that info from go it, cause im interested in reading about it.

By flange1

January 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Overlord,

I think it was Coach who said that in “baseball vernacular” that B-12 = steroids.

Isn’t that right Coach?

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

I agree Shaun, i think he just tried to say that if he gives the braves great numbers, the braves are gonna be a monster team. If he gets hurt early, he will be replaced by unexperienced players and will make a gap in the OF and maybe offensively making the braves weaker and giving them less chance to win. Not that he is the key to the team success, but important.

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

To me B-12 is just vitamin B-12, if im wrong, where can i read about it? And it has lots of sense, because Vitamin b-12 is used to diminish pain, that is a fact.

By NorthBeach Scott

January 28, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Josh H at 9:03am The Camp Roger begins 2/1/08 for Braves pitcers.

By Here Comes the Pitch

January 28, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

62 DAYS ‘TIL FIRST PITCH!!!!

By N8

January 28, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Coach

“To those who would espouse otherwise, I say. People who project negativity typically have low self-esteem. They feel badly about themselves, and their negativity is simply a reflection of those feelings and all negativity is an illusion created by the limited mind to protect and defend itself.”

I’ll assume that the majority of that was directed at Robert. However since I too have been somewhat critical of Cox at times, I take a little offense to that.

Isn’t the MAIN purpose of this blog to discuss the ATLANTA BRAVES and anything that pertains to them?

Aren’t we ALL fans of the Braves (or fans of their rivals)?

What is the word “fan” short for? That’s right. Fanatic.

I’ve NEVER (other than chuckling at some of Robert’s -ahem- Donkey “humor”), ragged on Cox the person. Never wished harm upon him. Certainly realize that whatever faults he has, that he has good traits as well.

Are you really gonna sit there and honestly tell me that because I didn’t like him bringing in Leibrandt to face Puckett, or carrying 3 catchers in just about EVERY playoff series, or bringing in Remlinger to face lefties (when the stats say that lefties hammered him), is because I have low self esteem?

Come on man. I’m a fan of the Braves, and as a fan, I question, and second guess (along with many fans), when something doesn’t go well, and praise when it does.

Without both sides of the coin (essentially fans disagreeing with others), there would be NO BLOGS, there would be no TALK RADIO, and there certainly wouldn’t be scenarios that caused booing or cheering. We would all just sit back and watch the results unfold in silence.

What and exciting world that would be, huh?

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Logical Robert states:

DOB - Let’s assume hypothetically that the Braves main rival (whoever you happen to think it to be in any given year) hires an idiot manager. Would you tell them so? Or would you say stuff about what a great guy he is, what nice things people say about him, how such and such players loved playing for him, and so on

I thought so. So much for what anyone outside Atlanta says about Cox. And the Atlanta media is either totally brainwashed or doesnt have the nads to call a spade a spade.

MY REPLY: Uh, yeah. Good point.

This is why I’ve vowed not to entertain your utterly inane posts about this issue this season. There’s no point. And since that’s the only issue you care to address, it means I can basically skip all your posts if I have anything more important to do, like, say, checking to make sure my DVR series priorities are updated, or making toast.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

KC, while Kotsay might not be a top-three critical issue for the Braves this season, he is an issue. I disagree with you that it doesn’t matter what they get out of his spot. I mean, they need something from there, some production, unless they get close to career-type years from a few other guys.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Josh, pitching camp begins Friday.

I’m off until then, but I’ll get a new blog up later today or tomorrow.

By Anders

January 28, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB

yeah, but Braveheart: Marty Noble has only covered the Mets for a couple or three decades. He’s not quite as privy to the team’s inside-the-clubhouse doings as Anders.

I try to let these things go but You keep bringing them up and I will defend myself. That said, Glavine saying he wouldn’t use the word “devestated” was discussed in great detail up here in NY by the “sports media”. Everyone agreed that as it relates to things such as war, death etc. that no one would compare it to that. However, players use the word devestated to describe big losses quite often and it’s understood what context is meant. I have no way of knowing what was inside Glavine’s head at the time, however, being an intelligent and wily 20 year veteran I think he knows exactly what he’s saying and how he’s saying it. Anyway, at this point I couldn’t care less how he felt - all I know is he couldn’t have pitched much worse down the stretch - that is a fact. But I don’t have to concern myself with him anymore so I plan to leave it behind me, unless you continue to poke me in the eye with a stick about it. Then I will respond in kind.

By McFann

January 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

I agree. Making toast is way more entertaining than reading Robert’s posts. That’s about as entertaining as watching the paint dry on the Mets’ new stadium.

By Shaun

January 28, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Yeah. Chipper had as good a year as any in his career (if not for injuries it would have been an MVP year, I think), Smoltz and Hudson came together for very strong seasons. I wouldn’t bet against Chipper having another great season or Smoltz and Hudson having big seasons again but I also doubt everything will align perfectly. I also don’t think it’s impossible for the Braves to contend or even win the division without much production from Kotsay, but I do agree with Perry and DOB that a lack of production from Kotsay (or unexpected production from one of the young guys) makes things a lot tougher for the Braves.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

To me, a better question for the poll posted on AJC Braves page (Who will be fifth starter?) would have been, “Who will be the fourth starter?”

a. Chuck James

b. Jair Jurrjens

c. Mike Hampton

d. Jo-Jo Reyes

Whaddya think? That’s a difficult one, because you have to take into account everything, including, obviously, health.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Anders, I’m sprinkling a little cinnamon and sugar on my sourdough toast … i’ll get back to you.

By Shaun

January 28, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

So much for what anyone outside Atlanta says about Cox.

You mean that he is one of if not the most sought after manager in the game today (or at least was when he was a few years younger)? That virtually no former players have anything but great things to say about him? That even sabermetric types like Billy Beane who don’t buy into old-school thinking all that much or often still praise Bobby Cox?

By Efrim

January 28, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

DOB

B

By OrlandoFan

January 28, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

I’ve followed the Braves closely since their 2000-fans-a-game monstrosity teams of the mid 1970s, and I’ve followed baseball closely a couple decades longer than that, and I simply can’t fathom why fans in Atlanta can question the record and contribution of Bobby Cox. What he has accomplished is almost unfathomable. Yes, the Yankees have won a lot more World Series and pennants, but they almost invented the process. For pure, unmitigated success in his field, Cox in my lifetime only was matched Red Auerbach. But even the Celtics dominated a very limited field. Do I agree with everyting Cox does? Absolutely not. Do I think he has made bad moves that have cost the Braves games and perhaps a World Series, or two? Absolutely. Has he had plenty to work with as a manger? No doubt. But just look at all who have gone before him and recognize that his success was built (primarily) in a nearly 2-decade string of managing a franchise that had been frankly futile and too often comical for a long, long time (if you take away 1982). All taht said, the bottom line for me is this: His players — the guys who have won and stayed and those who have come and gone — are the ones who give him the credit and are excited to have him as a boss. That is the ultimate praise. Think about how many of us do our daily gigs for more than 15 years and been so very happy to have done it for same boss who has led you to greatness? No, I didn’t think so. You probably had 5 bosses in that time, at least. And you achieved your level of greatness either with them or inspite of them but not so often because of them. The Braves’ players say otherwise about Cox. That should be the last sentence on any evaluation.

By richbrave

January 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

KC:

I’m relieved to know that Kotsey won’t be instrumental for the fsilure or success of the Braves in ‘08. Since you’re obviously gifted with future vision, please respond to Brother Dave’s request for the #4 starter in ‘08. I’m afraid to guess and want a response from someone with the clarity of vision to be absolutely correct.

By McFann

January 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Who will be the fourth starter?

a) Chuck James

By DAP

January 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

robert So much for what anyone outside Atlanta says about Cox. And the Atlanta media is either totally brainwashed or doesnt have the nads to call a spade a spade.

not that we didnt know it already, but youre officially off your rocker. youve decided there is a MLB-wide cover up of how bad a manager cox is? every player, manager, and coach in the majors for the last 18 years has conspired to keep bobby cox in atlanta, where he has won consistently. this makes alot of sense. even the media is in on it, since they do nothing but sing his praises.

bobby being a baseball genius must be the biggest cover-up in the history of the world!!!

you are just crazy, man. seriously.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 28, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

DOB:

that is a tough one, because there’s only one choice. if Hampton’s healthy, i’d say him, with Chuckie James as the 5th starter. if he’s not healthy, i’d say it’ll be C. James with Jair Jurrjens as the 5th starter.

but i’ll go out on a limb and say C. Mike Hampton, final answer.

By Hammy the Brave

January 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Don’t you think it would strengthen the Braves’ bench if FW would sign a veteran with power to a minor-league contract, with a ST invite? I have in mind Morgan Ensberg, or Corie Koskie(concussion- could retire), two 3B/1B types who could help replace Chipper’s power, when he goes on the DL yet again. Is the team that close to it’s budget that they couldn’t spend another 1 mill. or so to have a ML average bench? IMO, you don’t have a realistic bench when you rely on Infante/Lilibridge to backup 3B, when you know they don’t have ML power, and can’t replace Chipper that way.

Also, if Hampton continues to have any physical setbacks, and if Bennett impresses in early pitching camp and in ST, would we be more likely to see James and Bennett as 4th and 5th starters, and Hampton possibly in the bullpen as longman and 2nd lefty? In my mind, this would be a way to count less on a big contribution from Hampton(starting) and still have him help on the staff(bullpen). I just haven’t seen this expressed on this board, and wondered if you could ask FW and Roger about this idea.

Also, it’s great early pitching camp finally starts this Fri. I look forward to your updates/articles about it.

Thanks for your input,

Hammy the Brave

By Josh H

January 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Hammy the Brave:

Two words, one name: Craig Wilson.

If Chipper goes down for an extended amount of time, then you make a move. But acquiring a .230 career hitter in Morgan Ensberg just to have some power in case Chipper goes down just doesn’t make much sense.

We already have a power bat on the bench that doesn’t hit for average in Thorman.

Chipper is quite possibly one of the top 5 hitters in the majors. All you can ask for is that a solid position player take his place if/when he goes down.

IMO, making a sign like that would only turn into another Craig Wilson/Woodward.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 28, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Hammy: they got Infante to be Chipper’s (and any other infielder who might get injured) backup. i doubt they need another power bat on the bench when they’ll have Diaz/Brandon Jones, Thorman, and possibly Javy Lopez on the bench. power for the bench isn’t a need for this club. this is already a power-stacked lineup anyway, with Tex, Francouer (both good for at least 20+ HR), McCannan and KJ (good for at least 15+). too much power isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not a need. the lineup will be fine — with Chipper, it’s incredible, without him (and with Tex in there), it’s still solid (though far weaker).

Hampton as a long man? no way they’d send him to the bullpen if he’s healthy. if he’s healthy, he’ll be in the rotation for sure — they’re not paying $15 million (or whatever his salary is this year) for a longman out of the bullpen. they’ve got plenty of guys who can fill in for Hampton should get injured again, and it’s been said on these boards that the Braves aren’t counting on much production from Hampton anyway.

By Lew

January 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Anders-Mountains from Molehills, Dude. You make them. Constantly. Now you’re parsing words. Who cares if he said devastated or something (for that matter, anything) else?

Dude-Glavine is no longer a Met, so what the hell do you care what he says, to whom he says it, or what his motivation for saying it was? Why do you and the New Yorkers care to even discuss it? Seems to me you have many more pressing issues facing you (which many of us here have pointed out to you numerous times) then whether or not Glavine was disappointed, devastated, overjoyed, elated or positively orgasmic over any aspect of what he did or didn’t do for the Mets.

He is now the Braves’ concern-not the Mets’. He does not play for you. If you think he sucks that bad then you should be the elated one that he no longer pitches for you, but will suck (in your opinion) for your bitter rival, the Braves. Seems like you have a win win situation for the Mets. Why are you b!tch!ng? If you think it’s for OUR benefit, don’t bother.

By Greg in TN

January 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon folks…

Seventeen more days until pitchers and catchers report to Dark Star for the annual rite of spring. And if you’re a pitcher, you’ve already made plans to convene for Friday’s opening of what used to be called Camp Leo in these parts (maybe we should start calling it Roger’s Retreat?)

We’ve inked Diaz and Soriano to contracts avoiding arbitration with both and locking up the intense one to a two-year deal to shut doors in the faces of baseball offenses come the ninth through ‘09. I think if Soriano is able to maintain his focus and stay healthy, that it’ll be a great signing for both parties. Personally, I think he’ll do well in the closer’s role. He has the right temperament for it and it’s obvious he comes to the ballpark every night to stick it to the guys in the other dugout.

I like the fact that we signed Tex for the year and avoided arbitration and it doesn’t hurt that Tex is shopping for a house in the ATL, however I don’t read anything more into it than that.

Good to see some posts from my friend from the lowcountry, and as we get closer and closer to teeing up Grapefruit League action, I’m sure things will pick up with more folks weighing in on the happenings on Planet Braves. I am beyond anxious to get things rolling and hear the pop of ball meeting mitt.

C’mon clock, keep ticking…

By Mike S

January 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

mmmmmmmmmmm……toast.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

DAP, my thoughts exactly.

By DAP

January 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

on the 4th starter, i think it will be hampton, and i think he will give us about 25 starts with a 3.75ish ERA and double digit wins. i believe we will have a “6th” starter this year that will make over 20 starts and pitch pretty well. this 6th starter will relpace everyone in the roation at least once except for hudson. (i think this guy will be jair jurrjens.) chuck james will be #5.

By Anders

January 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Lew

Apparently my opinion does matter on here or DOB wouldn’t keep harping on it. BTW- I don’t care what Glavine said at this point - pretty sure I said that in my last post but I’ll repeat it for the hard of reading.

Pressing issues indeed. Speaking of which - what’s the word on Santana up there in Red Sox nation? Are hat sales off or something? Sox don’t seem to have the hunger for Santana you’ve been telling us about. Even the AJC has an article calling the Mets frontrunners in the sweepstakes. Oh the humanity!

By Efrim

January 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any thoughts on Jurrjens being used as a set-up man this year? Or do you think they would keep him in Triple A and keep him starting? He certainly has the fastball to be a set-up guy.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

DOB and other R.E.M. fans:

R.E.M. has announced a 13-date tour through North America that will conclude with a show in Atlanta at Lakewood Amphitheatre on Saturday, June 21.

For more dates and a minute-or-so-long song with the lyrics, “Hey Bertis Downs you know I think we might be touring! Hey Bertis Downs we just might tour next year! AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!”, go to remhq.com. (This song sounds like it could be from Dead Letter Office or something…)

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

P.S. The National and Modest Mouse will be supporting R.E.M. on the upcoming tour too.

By Obama '08

January 28, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Today, we gather to affirm the greatness of Braves nation not because of the height of our centerfield television, or the power of Mark Teixeira, or the excellence of Chipper Jones; our pride is based on a very simple premise, summed up in a declaration made over 40 years ago: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that the Atlanta Braves were not created equal with their rivals… …

that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable talents, that among these are pitching, power, and the pursuit of titles. That is the true genius of the Braves, a faith in simple dreams, an insistence on small miracles; that we can tuck in our children at night after watching a Braves game with them and know that they are fed and clothed in Braves gear and safe from harm by the Yankees;

that we can say what we think, write what we think, without hearing a sudden knock on the door; that we can have an idea and post our thoughts on DOB’s blog without paying a bribe; that we can participate in the blogging process without fear of retribution; and that our posts will be read — or at least, skimmed, most of the time.

This year, in this season, we are called to reaffirm our values and our commitments, to hold them against a hard reality and see how we are measuring up, to the legacy of our forbearers and the promise of future generations. And fellow pessimists, optimists, realists, propagandists, independents, I say to you, tonight, we have more work to do…

… more work to do, for the fans I met in Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Minnesota, Los Angeles, who are losing their ability to watch the Braves on their beloved TBS; more to do for the father who took his son and hard earned money to Fan Fest only to encounter a treasure hunt; more to do for the young woman in Florida, and thousands more like her who have the fanaticism, have the drive, have the will, but don’t have the money to get to games.

Now, don’t get me wrong, the people I meet in small towns and big cities and diners and office parks, they don’t expect the Braves to solve all of their problems. They know the Braves have to work hard to get ahead. And they want the Braves to. Go into the collar counties around Atlanta, and people will tell you: They don’t want their hard earned attendance and cable money wasted by a Discontinued Operation or by a Noncore Asset.

Go into any inner-city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that the Braves alone can’t teach kids to learn how to play baseball. They know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets unless the Braves are on and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a baseball glove is acting white. They know those things.

People don’t expect — people don’t expect the Braves to solve all their problems. But they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a slight change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in Braves Nation has a decent shot at watching the Braves win the World Series. They know we can do better. And they want that choice. In this season, we offer that choice. Our team has chosen a man to lead us who embodies the best baseball has to offer. And that man is John Smoltz.

John Smoltz understands the ideals of community, faith, winning, and service because they’ve defined his life. From his heroic service in the postseasons to his years as a starter and as a closer, through two decades with the Atlanta Braves, he has devoted himself to this team. Again and again, we’ve seen him make tough choices when easier ones were available. His values and his record affirm what is best in us. John Smoltz believes in an America where hard work is rewarded. So instead of excuses when the Braves fall short, he tells it like it is. John Smoltz believes in an America where all Braves fans can afford to watch and attend games. That is why he takes hometown discounts. John Smoltz believes in winning, so we aren’t held hostage to the profits of the Yankees or the sabotage of Mets bloggers. And John Smoltz believes that in a dangerous world, brushback pitches must be an option sometimes, but it should never be the first option.

You know, a while back, I met a young man who blogged with DOB. He was a good-looking kid, 6’2”, 6’3”, clear eyed, with an easy smile. He told me he’d joined the blog and was heading to spring training in a few weeks. And as I listened to him explain why he had enlisted with the blog — the absolute faith he had in our Braves and its leaders, his devotion to blogging and cheering and b!tching and moaning — I thought, this young man was all that any of us might ever hope for in a child. But then I asked myself: Are we serving this blogger as well as he’s serving us? I thought of the thousands of men and women, sons and daughters, husbands and wives, friends and neighbors who won’t be able to watch the Braves on TBS. I thought of the families I had met who were struggling to get by without a daily summer dose of Skip and Pete, but still believed in the Braves of Atlanta nevertheless. When we send our young men and women bloggers into SJA’s way, we have a solemn obligation not to fudge the numbers or shade the truth in our blog posts about how the Braves are faring, to care for their families while they can’t watch Skip and Pete, to tend to the displaced fans upon their return to the blog and to never, ever post without enough common sense to win a blog war with a Mets fan, secure the blog peace and earn the respect of the world.

Now, let me be clear. Let me be clear. We have real enemies in the world. These enemies must be found on the 7 train. They must be pursued and chased all the way back to Flushing, Queens. And they must be defeated at Shea. John Smoltz knows this. And just as Lieutenant Smoltz did not hesitate to risk his career and his golden right arm to protect the hopeful postseason dreams of the fans and the men who served with him in Atlanta. John Smoltz will not hesitate one moment to use the might of his right arm to keep the Braves safe and secure this upcoming season.

DOB believes in the Braves. DOB believes in the blogging freedoms that have made our blog the envy of the world, and he will never sacrifice our basic liberties nor use blind faith as a wedge to divide us. And he knows that it’s not enough for just some of us to post. For alongside our famous individualism, there’s another ingredient in the blogging saga, a belief that we are all connected as one people. If there’s a child on the south side of Atlanta who can’t watch, that matters to DOB, even if it’s not his child. If there’s a senior citizen somewhere who can’t afford to pay to watch the Braves this season, and has to choose between paying for medicine, rent, or watching the Braves, that makes his life poorer, even if it’s not his grandparent. If there’s a blogger being rounded up and beaten down without the benefit of doubt, that threatens all of our blogging liberties. It is that fundamental belief — it is that fundamental belief — I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sisters’ keeper — that makes this blog work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams of pretending to be sports writers ourselves, yet still come together as a single blogging family: “E pluribus unum,” out of many, one.

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative bloggers who embrace the blogging of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there’s not a negative blogger and a positive blogger; there’s the United Bloggers of DOB. There’s not a black blogger and white blogger and Latino blogger and Asian blogger; there’s the United Bloggers of DOB.

Some bloggers, some bloggers like to slice and dice our Braves nation into red states and blue States: red states for the pessimists, blue States for the optimists. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome Bobby Cox in the blue states, and we don’t like Mets bloggers poking around our blogs in the red states. We coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we’ve got some crazy friends like Robert in the red states. There are believers who opposed the Edgar trade, and there are believers who supported the Edgar trade. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the Tomahawk Chop, all of us defending the Atlanta Braves.

In the end, that’s what this season is about. Do we participate in a blog of cynicism, or do we participate in a blog of hope? Frank Wren calls on us to hope. Bobby Cox calls on us to hope. I’m not talking about blind optimism here, the almost willful ignorance that thinks failed postseason dreams will go away if we just don’t think about it, or the crisis of third place finishes will solve itself if we just ignore it. That’s not what I’m talking. I’m talking about something more substantial.

It’s the hope of fans like Choppimama sitting on her coach, strapping on the ‘tard, cheering, rooting, chanting and doing the Chop; the hope of fans from all over the country setting out for their annual summer trip to the Ted; the hope of a young catcher bravely being slammed into on plays at the plate; the hope of a son of a Red Sox fan who dreams of winning Gold Gloves for the Braves while firing out every baserunner who tempts his Golden Arm; the hope of a Cuban kid who dares to defy his dictator and dreams of the Braves of Atlanta having a place for him; the hope of a skinny leftfielder who works all winter to become a second baseman; the hope of a third baseman with a funny name who believes he can win a batting title, one more MVP, and at least one more World Series.

Hope in the face of difficulty, hope in the face of uncertainty, the audacity of hope: In the end, that is the greatest gift to us from the Braves, the bedrock of this blog, a belief in things not seen, a belief that there are better days ahead.

Braves nation, if you feel the same energy that I do, if you feel the same urgency that I do, if you feel the same passion that I do, if you feel the same hopefulness that I do, if we do what we must do, then I have no doubt that all across the country, from Florida to Arkansas, from Colorado to Vermont, from Bravonam to the German Braves Fan, the Braves will rise up in October, and John Smoltz will be crowned once again a World Series champion. And Bobby Cox, Tom Glavine, and Chipper Jones will once again be crowned as World Series champions. And this blog and team will reclaim it’s promise. And out of this long postseason darkness a brighter day will come.

After all, we have a World Series title to blog our Braves to in 2008.

THE MAGIC NUMBER IS 163!!!!! YES, WE CAN!!!!

By ncscoots

January 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Though there would be few series where it might occur, I do not thrill at the idea of three lefties, none of whom, probably, will break 90 this year, facing the same opposition. And, if the Braves’ braintrust has the same caution, it won’t be Glavine or Hampton that is the odd man out. Chuck goes, replaced by a breathing righty.

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

4th———- mike hampton (90% sure of it).

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Here are a couple of scenarios I could see playing out.

If Hampton can stay healthy (and hell freeze over at the same time) and Jurrjens and/or Reyes look like they are truly ready then I do beieve Chuck James will be dangled as trade bait. Now, I don’t think Wren would just trade him to trade him but I definitely think if a solid offer is made the Braves would likely jump at it. I would also think B. Pena or Prado would be included in the deal to “sweeten” it up.

Another scenario that could take place is if B. Jones looks extremely good in spring training then I think Diaz could be on the block. It is not like Diaz is going to bring a huge return but he could bring something of value like a good strong prospect or even a solid pitcher who could be a spot starter or help in the bullpen. Diaz is the kind of guy American League teams drool over and teams like the White Sox, Twins, Rangers, As, and Devil Rays could use his bat.

By flange1

January 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

I agree. IF Hampton is healthy, I don’t see the Braves going with

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and James.

Flip 1 and 2 and or 4 and 5 and the result is the same.

I think JJJ will be the next in line and Chuckie will be in the pen or in Richmond.

I know I beat the same dead horse, but I would like to see JJJ in the rotation and both Bennett and Chuckie in the pen as spot starters and long relief guys.

By N8

January 28, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

BINGO, with your 4:07 post.

The only other option (which could happen - if those 3 lefties make the rotation), is to have Glavine go in the #2 spot and have Hudson go in the #3 spot, if for nothing else, just to split up the 3 lefties.

Of course, if the Braves are so lucky to make the post season, than set you’re rotation based on how well each guy did.

The ONLY time during the season that it would really “matter” is maybe the first 2 or 3 times through the rotation. Which would have Glavine “matched up” against the other teams #2 guys. Of course the flipside to that, is that Hudson would be matched up against #3’s.

So it’s a wash.

But if Cox has all three of them (Glavine, Hampton and James) in the rotation and DOESN’T split them up, I want to here the logic on how that is just plain silly.

Let’s worry about it when it happens.

My prediction for the rotation?

1) Smoltz

2) Hudson

3) Glavine

4) JJJ

5) Reyes

With Chuck being the long man out of the pen.

I’m not sold, with his hamstring setback, that Hampton got the necessary rehab in over the winter to be ready by opening day (though I think he WILL contribute this year).

Add to that, I truly believe that JJJ and Reyes will outperform Chuck this spring. Not sure why I believe that without ever seeing JJJ and only brief stints of Reyes. Maybe I’ve seen enough of Chuck to not be convinced he’ll be more than a 5th starter, and IF that’s all he’s gonna be on this team, let one of the younger guys do it.

Then again, you’ve got the Bobby “loyalty” factor. While he’s RAVED about Reyes being a “#2 type guy”, Chuck has two years under his belt. If you don’t think that will factor in, guess again.

By DAP

January 28, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

scoots Chuck goes, replaced by a breathing righty.

wont happen. chuck has to get injured to stay out of the starting rotation from opening day, id bet on it.

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

What if hampton and james make the rotation?

Are the braves gonna go with 3 lefties in the rotation?

If so, are they gonna use their only 2 RHP in the top of the rotation and then 3 straight lefties? it doesnt sounds smart.

If so, does that means there is a chance glavine will be #2 if hampton and james make it to the rotation?

Same goes if JOJO makes it instead of hampton or james.

By DAP

January 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

trade chuck james? guys…no way this will happen. chuck will be our #5. next year when hampton and glavine are both gone, you want our rotation to be smoltz, huddy, jurjens, reyes, and…? who? carlyle? bennett? get real guys. chuck james is our 4th best pitcher right now, and hes not going anywhere.

By ncscoots

January 28, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

The ONLY time during the season that it would really “matter” is maybe the first 2 or 3 times through the rotation

nathan, I’ve always disagreed with that. Mostly, folks say that because off days, differing schedules, injuries, etc., etc., tend to jumble the rotations of every team, and therefore 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 matchups go out the window.

But here’s the thing…those jumbles go both ways. Top-of-the-rotation pitchers get matched against a fifth, a 3 goes against a 1 (or 4), all sorts of permutations. But, over the course of a season, it’s how many of the matchups are favorable to your team that counts. Putting a lesser pitcher in a higher rotation spot reduces the probability that your pitcher has the favorable matchup. No matter what the jumbles of teams’ rotations may be, 1s and 2s are likely to face a higher caliber pitcher more often than the reverse, and so, rotation slots count all seson long.

That’s my opinion, anyway, and I’m stickin’ to it! LOL

By ncscoots

January 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Hey, Neils? When your content reaches the level of “dotty maunderings”, maybe I’d be willing to listen to your opinion on such content. Until then, how ‘bout blow it out your azz.

By N8

January 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

“chuck james is our 4th best pitcher right now, and hes not going anywhere.”

Chuck James WAS our 3rd best pitcher last year. So by default he is NO HIGHER than 4th right now, with the addition of Glavine.

If Hampton is healthy (yeah, I know…BIG IF), James would be no higher than 5th on that list.

Anybody who reads scouting reports and prospect lists, will tell you that JJJ and Reyes both have MUCH HIGHER upsides than James does.

So it is not unrealistic to say that by the time the Braves break camp that James could be around 7th on that depth chart, is it?

As for next year? If Glavine only pitches this year, and Tex doesn’t re-sign, do you REALLY think that Wren won’t make a splash in free agency and (or) make a trade for a #2 or #3 starter? Come on man! We don’t know if Chuck is gonna be good enough to pitch this year in our rotation or not, and if he gets passed up by 2 young guys (JJJ and Reyes), what makes you think the Braves will “wait” for him, and have a spot ready for him to take over?

Chuck will more than likely start the season out in a Braves uniform, out of insurance for Hampton and the youngsters. But if he is not needed, will certainly be dealt during the season, and for sure next off-season.

Of course if NONE of the 3 options (Hampton, JJJ, Reyes) are able to contribute, then Chuck will be needed because who else do we have?

Don’t forget Buddy and Bennett either. I wouldn’t be at all shocked if Bennett makes the team as the long man (spot starter). No real trade value in him. Where Chuck could/would surely bring back a piece to the puzzle that could help (bullpen help?), as long as we can find somebody as stupid as the Mariners to take a junkball lefty with only 2 pitches, and give us a dominant reliever in return.

By Lew

January 28, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Anders-The only reason any issue is made is because you have this monolithic obsession with Glavine and you take any opportunity possible to browbeat and low rate him to us-NOT because anything you have said is particularly relevant.

Seriously what the Red Sox Nation thinks? Dude, It is a non issue. The Mets and whatever they do is of such non-importance to the Red Sox Nation, that you’re the first one who has commented on the Mets’ chances. The Sox don’t care. If the Twins will take what was offered by Boston, they will welcome Santana. If not, they still feel (rightly) that they have a team that could go all the way yet again-even without him.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 28, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Overlord , this is an excerpt about the Mitchell report :

Now we’re being asked to believe that Brian McNamee injected Roger Clemens with B-12. Hey, no fair stealing another man’s defense. Miguel Tejada has already used that one.

Besides, B-12 is one of the clubhouse code words for steroids. In using that phrase, Clemens isn’t admitting anything, but there surely are some big leaguers smiling at his use of that term.

I’m disappointed in you, Roger. All that time and money on lawyers and public-relations suits, and you can’t even come up with something original. That’s weak. I’d recommend something outrageous. For instance, I would have told Mike Wallace those bottles labled ”Winstrol” really were chicken soup.

That’s apparently going to be the headline out of the 60 Minutes interview. Clemens is going to acknowledge that his former trainer injected him with substances other than steroids and human growth hormone.

CBS’s statement corrected remarks by Wallace in a telephone interview earlier in the day when he said: ”He says what he has said before and has said all along. He said he never took injections from McNamee. He says he didn’t take the stuff. Nothing different.”

Turns out, Clemens did say McNamee injected him with B-12 and lidocaine. Here’s hoping Wallace asked the appropriate follow-up question: why in the world were you using lidocaine, which typically is used to numb an area before surgery or before another medical procedure.

By Wayne in Utah (back from some quality time as the "big house")

January 28, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

There was a time last summer when Robert actually posted comments that were reasonably intelligent. There is always hope….

I see Francoeur possibly holding out for Morneau type dollars after a few more years. Wouldn’t be a bad way for him to go, although a bird in the hand….. is also not a bad direction at this stage in his career.

And yes, Kotsay is a key to this season for us….not as much so as someone like Chipper or Tex, but definitely important. If he hits 260-270 or higher, with an OBP of 325 plus, while playing 6 out of 7 games average, he will have done the job well enough.

Here is my starting rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens, and James (to break up the lefty righty thing). Hampton might start the season in extended Spring Training, if all goes well. Bennett as the Oscar of ‘08.

What say ye, blogsters?

By GermanBravesFan

January 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Are Anders and Robert the same person? A person with dual personality where one obsesses about Tom Glavine and the other about Bobby Cox?

By Braveheart

January 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Neils Boor Don’t be an a@@hole. Most people here do miss Bob, Journalist. DOB has even stated that he does. That unfortunate drama from October and November is long behind everyone and no one wishes to get back into all the sniping that went both ways during that period of time. Why are you dragging it back out? Leave it alone. No need to open up old wounds. Almost everyone has moved on. Why can’t you?

By Wayne in Utah (former injector of B-12)

January 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

If it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, smells like a duck and “squirts” like a duck, it’s probably a duck. Come on Roger, give us all a break, and just give it up…..

By Wayne in Utah (former injector of B-12)

January 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Anders and Robert

Could they be brothers from a different mother? Maybe the love children of some ornery old fart like, maybe ….. Roger Clemens??

Wayne: “OK guys, we want the truth!”

Anders/Robert: Wayne, “You can’t handle the truth!”

pretty bad when you talk to yourself….

Whassupp WW??

By Wayne in Utah (former injector of B-12)

January 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

German Are you from Germany, or living in Germany? Got a son serving with Uncle Sam over at Ramstein AB….. just curious.

By nOLIE

January 28, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Oh the humanity!Anders

What does this mean? I’ve been wondering ever since I first read it here. Humanity? do you mean inhumanity? I don’t get it.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I like your projections, including Bennett as the Vulturreal of ‘08. Only thing I disagree on is Hampton — if he’s healthy, he’s in rotation, not extended spring training. But that’s a big “if.”

By flange1

January 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Neils,

Thanks for the link. I agree with the above posts that EVERYONE on both blogs should let it go.

Even the guy over there that posts with 3 or 4 different names.

He stills seems to have a problem with a certain “beet writer.”

Let it go JJS…

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Damn, that was quite a stump speech a littler earlier this afternoon. How much time you put into that? Gotta love the passion….

Daybed, that’s great news about REM coming to town. Braves are home against Seattle that day, but it’s a night game. I’ll need to plan to be off that night.

By the way, I rode over to Athens on the bike Sunday and went to Schoolkids Records. Bought a bootleg of an REM live show at 40 Watt in 1986, which was a tribute to D. Boon of the Minutemen, who died in Dec. 1985. Anyway, the show’s great and has their first-ever live performance of “Fall On Me.”

By DonCoburleone

January 28, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

DOB do you think the Braves would have non-tendered Villareal had they gotten no response from anyone in trade talks? Do you think (or know) whether or not FW wanted to replace Villareal with Bennet all along? (seeing as Bennet can fill the long reliever role at a much cheaper cost).

Also, just an FYI, did you see that Pedro Feliz signed with the Philthies today and the Giants got a supplemental first round pick because Feliz is considered a Type “B” free agent? Can you believe that? So according to major league baseball, Pedro freakin’ Feliz is the same caliber player as Andruw Jones (both Type B free agents)… Pedro Feliz and his career line of .252/.288/.433 is as valuable as Andruw Jones(.263/.342/.497)?!$%^&@#? That is such crap I can’t even think about it too long or I’ll throw up….

By DonCoburleone

January 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Also DOB, lets just say for the sake of argument that Mike Hampton is healthy for the majority of the season (say he makes 29 or 30 starts with 170 - 180 innings) and puts up respectable numbers (ERA in the low 4’s, 12 wins, good peripheral numbers). What kind of contract do you think he’d be in line for? I’m trying to think of a Free Agent this offseason who would be comparable and I can’t even think of one (a guy who was very good for many seasons, then lost at least 1 full season to injury, came back and pitched well for 1 season and then became a Free Agent). Anyway, I’d think he would be in line for at least a Jason Marquis type contract wouldn’t he?

By TommyP

January 28, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

One thing about this blog is if you don’t logon for several days, you can be sure that the same people are speaking ill of McCann, Cox, and Glavine while others are debating the merits of the Mets vs. Braves overall talent with music dialogue mixed in with incredible frequency. Death, taxes and….well, you get the picture.

A few baseball tidbits of interest today: Pedro Feliz to the Phils. That’s not a bad signing though I didn’t get to see the financial ramifications. Feliz can sure field the position and will knock a few out of that bandbox in Philly. Beats the alternatives that were out there and internally for the Phils (Helms???).

David Aardsma dealt to the Red Sox. How in the world has this arm been dealt so many times? Me thinks the Sox are willing to put this guy at the end of the bullpen and allow him to slowly develop. Great teams deal for underachieving talents like this and turn them around.

Brian Anderson of the White Sox rumored to be dealt to the NL. Though I’ve read the Braves could be one of those teams, I think that’s quite the erroneous report. No way at this juncture they deal for him. They already signed Borchard, didn’t they? They deal for Anderson and we’ll begin to see Paul Ossman on the big screen discussing the wind chill at the stadium in July.

“This is Paul Ossman and your game time temperature is a sizzling 94 degrees but seeing that Borchard and Anderson are starting tonight, the forecast calls for a 77 degree wind chill and dropping throughout the night ‘til about 10PM when temperatures will return to normal. I’m Paul Ossman. Go Braves.”

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Obama ‘08 Awesome post dude….

nOLIE If you don’t already know, no one can explain it to you….

By KC

January 28, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

DOB: “KC, while Kotsay might not be a top-three critical issue for the Braves this season, he is an issue. I disagree with you that it doesn’t matter what they get out of his spot.”

I never said it “doesn’t matter what they get out of his (Kotsay’s) spot”. I merely said that it was ridiculous to place Kotsay on a list of 10 players that are “vital to his team’s chances”, alongside players like Pedro Martinez, Travis Hafner, Ben Sheets, Alex Rodriguez, Brett Myers, and Manny Ramirez.

Webster defines vital as “necessary to the maintenance of life”. So Dayn is essentially saying that if the Braves don’t have a solid, healthy season out of Kotsay… they’re toast. That’s asinine. Kotsay matters… I never said anything to the contrary, but “vital” is a gross overstatement. Unlike the other players on Dayn’s list, there are at least 10 other players playing around Kotsay that will be much more “vital to his team’s chances in 2008”.

For the record, I’m not dissing Kotsay. I think he is a solid player (if healthy) and I’m glad we got him. But he is a role player. He will be called on to play solid defense and hit at the bottom of the order. Role players matter, but… “VITAL to his team’s chances” in the same breath as Pedro and Arod??? Is he serious??

By KC

January 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

To follow up on my last post, if you want to pick a player that truly IS “vital” to Atlanta’s chances, Dayn should choose from (in order):

Smoltz, Hudson, Chipper, Tex, Soriano, Glavine, Frenchy, McCann, Escobar (since he’ll likely hit leadoff), Moylan, KJ, whoever our 4th starter is, and THEN Kotsay.

By Roman Gal

January 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Obama nice…very creative.

For a person with the attention span of a goldfish, I actually enjoyed reading your “speech.”

…now, Hillary, your rebuttal…

By Roman Gal

January 28, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

I agree with you KC. It is important to get production out of him, but if the Braves can stay competitive with Andruw Jones stinking it up to the tune of a .222 ba, then the team will be fine if the players you mentioned contribute like they are expected to.

By Roman Gal

January 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

…not to say that I think Kotsay can get by with a .222 b/a…just saying that if he can give his career avg’s then we should be fine

By ncscoots

January 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

nolie, Google “Hindenburg Disaster”. The phrase gained currency here on the blog through its use by a now-MIA blogger.

But Gil’s right, LOL…you had to be here, because for sure no one can really explain it!

By TennesseePaul

January 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

I just have this suspecion that if Kotsay does end up at the bottom of this line up, we’ll see the worst of him. And if he ends up at the top of the line up, we’ll see his best. Assuming of course, he is healthy.
I know, I’ve read the posts. It’d be foolish if the Braves put him second despite his career long success there and 2 year, injury year, decline. But, I also looked at his stats, at the same age as Edgar, at the same point in time, when Edgar came to Atlanta and Kotsay started getting injured, just before that, the two had similar, almost identical numbers. Though Kotsay slugged more. If he’s healthy, he’d be a perfect replacement for Renteria in the two hole. But I guess we’ll see…

I read where Bowman thinks B. Jones is the odd man out in the outfield mix. He suspects Anderson gets the fourth outfield spot. Not sure what to think of that…

By Overlord

January 28, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

What if hampton and james make the rotation?

Are the braves gonna go with 3 lefties in the rotation?

If so, are they gonna use their only 2 RHP in the top of the rotation and then 3 straight lefties? it doesnt sounds smart.

If so, does that means there is a chance glavine will be #2 if hampton and james make it to the rotation?

Same goes if JOJO makes it instead of hampton or james.

By McFann

January 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Yeah, TommyP, somebody’s always typin’ ill about somebody, ain’t they? Gets annoying, but hey, who among us hasn’t typed ill about somebody?

But I’m seriously trying to cut back. I’ll just pop up for defensive purposes now and then.

Night, all!!

By George Double U Bush-League

January 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

State of the Union, er Organization Speech

Salaries are rising, there is a concern about our economic future. So, I am announcing a robust growth package for the Braves. I am going to push to get steroids legalized. Major League baseball needs to act quickly on this “stimulus package”. We are going to try to “stimulate” John Smoltz, Chipper Jones, and Javy “Juice” Lopez. GO JAVY!!

Members of baseballs owners should know, if any huge signings are made, then the commissioner will veto those transactions. So, A-Rod will be signed to a much more affordable 10 year, $3 million dollar contract. Also, Mark Teixeira will be signed to a 6 year, $6 million dollar contract.

So, while our competition up north might have unlimited funds to extend their deficits, here in Atlanta we will hold the line on players salaries. The Muts will be allowed to continue with their free agent signings, but they along with the Red Sox and the Yankees will be required to send $1200 to each tax paying family in America, so that they can afford to go to one game per year.

Thank you, and God Bless baseball!

By Wayne in Utah

January 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Overlord Actually, the issues you speak of as far as 2 or 3 lefties in the rotation are very minor problems to have. I suspect that if the Braves have 6-7 guys to choose from for the rotation, the choices would be set up in a rotation that would make the most sense at the time, and would improve the staff’s chances to succeed. So, what I am proposing is that it would be a good problem to have, trying to figure out if TG or Huddy went #2 or #3 in the rotation. Hey, Smoltz is certainly man enough to go #3 if need be. The man is a winner, and I suspect it wouldn’t matter one bit where his spot in the rotation was, so long as he was pitching every 5th day.

So I guess what I am saying is that we are discussing something that is a non-issue, really.

Whaddya think…

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

DonC, while in agreement with you that it’s silly that Pedro Felix should warrant the same compensation as Andruw Jones, you quoted their career stats. That’s irrelevant for this matter. They only go on the past two seasons. That’s all. Doesn’t matter if he’s a 500-career homer guy, matters only what he did last TWO seasons. Nothing more….

KC, in complete agreement with you on Perry’s assertion. Didn’t know he made him one of 10 major issues among ALL teams. Like I said, he’s not even top three on this team, in terms of critical issues….

Ms. Rogers informs me she will be posting a new blog, perhaps as soon as tonight. Good news. Straight from her fine coverage of the NHL All-Star Game, a jack of all trades. Give her a warm round of responses when she does post here.

By BabyGoatEater

January 28, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

I just can’t believe that Braves fans, on a Braves blog, are arguing still that we should trade Chuck James. Were any of you awake last season? If you were then you know that no team, and I mean no team, has enough pitching. Of course Chuck would get us a good player in return. The going rate for young pitching is out of this world. That also means if you trade one away (James), then you gotta pay that for a replacement at the trading deadline. Last season I believe people were saying the same thing, “oh, we got 6 starters maybe 7. lets trade one for a first baseman.” We all see how that worked out. Just my minor, non-meaningfull opinion but …..lets keep all the young pitching we can get our hands on.

Also, those who have read any of my posts lately (meaning last few months) know I think Chuck has tremendous upside despite what the “authority on prospects” think. Chuck is one pitch away from being a #2 starter. I can see him being a poor mans Glavine, with change-up and control for the next 5-7 years. He’s gonna have a break-out year soon. He probably won’t be a true ace ever. He probably won’t have longevity either. There have been many pitchers who were very good for 2-5 years then dropped off (injury, control issues, etc). I’m probably alone here but, I think a 12-7 3.70 year is a good possibility.

By David O'Brien

January 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Oh, and DonC, regarding Hampton’s possible future contract: Sorry, but I just don’t see the point of trying to guess. I mean, really. Why would you even be concerned or thinking about that right now, in late January, when he hasn’t pitched in two seasons? Why look beyond this year, beyond spring training for that matter? You can, but I’ll opt out of that discussion.

By Wayne in Utah

January 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

I am watching the state of the union tonight, and I have one question: What is a sunny turd in Baghdad?

By N8

January 28, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

KC

Here is the link to the douchebag’s story:

DB Dayn Perry

NOWHERE in that article, did I see the word “vital”.

After reading what he says about Kotsay, I almost have to agree.

We can “live” with his numbers if they are similar to Andruw’s numbers last year, (obviously we should expect more doubles than HR’s), and he plays above average defense. If he’s healthy, I have ZERO doubts that he’ll achieve those goals.

But DB is right. If his numbers are close to HIS OWN numbers from the last couple of years, that won’t be good enough, and we’ll see the Schafer era rushed in as quick as you can say “goodbye Mondesi…hello Jeff Francoeur”.

That being said, as far as the Braves are concerned (with winning/losing and making the post season), I’d say that Glavine is 20X the “key” to their success as Kotsay is.

But we won’t survive, if Kotsay puts up Langerhansian numbers.

By Roman Gal

January 28, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

“There are, of course, players especially vital to their teams who have the pressure squarely upon them heading into the upcoming season.”

By Metropolitan Man

January 28, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

METS have just filed a lawsuit for negligence against C. James. He obviously put in the wrong windows in the Citi filed box seats. METS lawyers dont want a refund, they want him to get himself together, become a MLB pitcher, score a big contract and then pay them back. Real baseball news as soon as some happens.

By BabyGoatEater

January 28, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

1st two seasons in the majors

Chuck James: 22-14, 4.05 ERA, 280.1 Innings, 207 K’s

Tom Glavine: 21-25, 4.13 ERA, 381.1 Innings, 174 K’s

Just sayin…………

By N8

January 29, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal

Thank you for posting that. I must be blind. My bad.

BabyGoatEater

Two things to take note of when comparing Chuck and Glavine.

1) The innings. Glavine was good enough MOST of the time to get past the 5th inning. Some of those losses, came late in games (young guys have a tough time finishing games). Chuck can not only get close to “finishing” games most of the time, he has a TOUGH time getting past the 6th inning, more often than not.

2) Many of the losses were due to playing on some pretty LOUSY teams. While the Braves the last two years have not made the playoffs, they are NOWHERE NEAR as lousy as those late 80’s teams.

Sometimes “results” and how we perceive them, is based on circumstances and expectations. When Glavine came up, NOBODY expected anything. Period.

For 15 years, the Braves have made a habit of NOT calling up players (especially pitchers) that were not ready. So, for one, if the Braves call up a pitcher MOST of us assume that they are “ready to roll” (or at least not embarrass themselves.

Not to mention the “BIG 3” are going to cast a LONG shadow over anybody that joins this rotation anytime soon (ask Tim Hudson).

So, while I have been a little rough on Chuck, due to expectations, I have to admit, he hasn’t been that bad.

Though, I’d take another half of a run added to his ERA, if it meant adding another inning or two to his average start.

Those lack of innings from essentially our #3 starter KILLED US last year.

So I’ll agree with most on here, that he’ll more than likely make a FINE #5 guy if Hampton is ready, and surely a better #4 guy (than he was at #3), with Glavine on board.

I’m just really curious to what JJJ has to offer. Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 29, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

State of the Union , where ? Did I miss something….. O never mind.

I think you guys are taking Dayn Perry’s article just a bit out of context. I happen to agree with him , for several reasons.

Mark Kotsay won’t replace AJ. In fact , no one ever will. While Perry’s stat assessment of Kotsay is accurate , he makes a good point in his belief that Kotsay is critical to the Braves defense.

If Kotsay succumbs to injury it could have a cascade effect on the number of outfielders (from 4 to 5) the Braves will have to carry on the roster and cut into the strength of the bench.

Kotsay is a strong defensive player , having him in CF gives the pitcher confidence to throw certain pitches that the batter would not see otherwise.

Basically , Kotsay gives the guy on the mound the trust of knowing that if he throws a fastball down the heart of the plate and it gets hit in the air anywhere in the vicinity of CF , Kotsay will catch it because he is a proven veteran defender.

With a healthy Mark Kotsay the Braves are in great shape because he makes the offense , defense and pitching better. Without him , the Braves will be scrambling to hold the outfield and defense together.

This is the point that Dayn Perry was trying to convey.

Also , this is the other part of Dayn Perry’s article about Tom Glavine that apparently , no one read :

Last year, venerable lefty Tom Glavine notched his 300th career win and secured his spot in Cooperstown. Now, he’s back in Atlanta, where he spent the first 16 seasons of his major-league career.

Glavine’s in decline (last season as a Met, he posted his highest ERA since 1988), but he’s still a reliable source of innings. Also, the Braves don’t need Glavine to be the ace of old; rather, they need him to answer the bell on a regular basis behind John Smoltz and Tim Hudson and give them roughly league-average innings. If he does that, then Atlanta just might return to the postseason after a two-year hiatus.

By Overlord

January 29, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Coach i got that that, so it is a club house code word….. i suppose it it is a good code word since as i mentioned, B-12 is used to minimize or diminish pain if caused by injury to nerves, like neck pain after car crash with head injury and stuff like that.

Thanks coach.

DAP, i agree with you, right now james is not going to be traded since in 2009 2 of our current lefties might be gone. I like the idea of james in the pen for long relieve.

By Metropolitan Man

January 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Find it anywhere, METS land Santana for a fraction of the future. No need to blog now, work calls. Anders should have a good time telling you guys how 3rd place 3 years in a row will feel. Once again, who has the better rotation???? Just asking, talk to you guys later when your not so upset.

LETS GO METS & BIG BLUE

By joebrave

January 30, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

The Mutts mak my NUtZ itch,my Nutz itch,my Nutz itch,hey man Ju wanna know someting,Jour Muttz make my NUTZ ITCH!!!