AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > January > 18 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USAybar gone, Lillibridge could win job
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Nothing like a leisurely offseason to get the old baseball beat writer’s batteries recharged….
Seriously, could the Braves go a couple days this winter without a trade, signing, injury, front-office realignment, or team relocation announcement?
Last night I had plans, and again they got abruptly altered with the trade that sent Willy “Value Highly Diminished by Drug Rehab” Aybar to Tampa Bay for reliever Jeff “You Don’t Know Me, But I Throw Hard for a Lefty” Ridgway, followed soon after by disclosure that Omar Infante broke a hand when hit by a pitch this week and, oh yeah, Mark Teixeira avoided arbitration and signed a $12.5 mill contract.
Whew.
Yes, just another week of baseball coverage in mid-January. FanFest, Mark Kotsay rumors, Kotsay trade, R-Braves moving to Gwinnett, Aybar trade, Infante hurt, Teixeira signs … hey, spring training is gonna feel like time off.
Not to complain or anything, because I could be doing many, many things far more demanding today than sitting in my basement office at home listening to Johnny Cash and The Clash while writing stories and blogs about the Braves.
Nevertheless, enough. Let’s call a moratorium on news at least until pitching camp starts in a couple weeks. Whaddya say, Braves?
No? Well, OK. Just thought I’d try.
Speaking of Joe Strummer and the Clash, if you’ve not seen the movie or heard the soundtrack, you gotta hear the opening line of the Strummer biopic “The Future Is Unwritten.” Someone off-camera asks him what Strummer wants written in graphics, how he wants to be referred to when they first show him on screen.
“I’d like you to write Punk Rock Warlord,” he says in his great Cockney accent, “with Warlord being one word.”
Anyway, where were we?
Teixeira signs; what does it mean? While there was never any doubt Mark Teixeira would play for the Braves in 2008, there was still some sense of relief in Braves Nation when he signed a new contract Thursday without going through any of the potentially contentious steps of the arbitration process.
Because if agent Scott Boras and GM Frank Wren can agree to a fair-market price for Teixeira ($12.5 mill) for 2008, the final year of his arbitration-eligible period, then hey, maybe they have a decent chance of ironing out a contract extension before he tests the free-agent waters in 10 months, right?
Well, slow down, folks.
It might mean that, but Wren was careful in his conversation with me last night, careful not to portray this as anything more than it was: Teixeira signed and Boras didn’t take the Braves to arbitration because all along, the agent and the Braves’ new GM were in agreement on what Teixeira should get as a fifth-year arbitration guy.
Wren is the one who handled most negotiations and arbitration matters for the Braves in recent years while serving as John Schuerholz’s assistant, so Wren knew what Teixeira could expect to get if he took all the steps available to him in the arbitration process. No sense offering, say, $11.5 million, and having Boras ask for, say, $13.5 million. Because in that case, an arbitration panel might just as easily have chosen the $13.5 mill salary as the $11.5 mill.
And in the steps leading up to that, the Braves would’ve had to explain to the panel why Teixeira wasn’t worth $13.5 mill, etc. With him sitting in the room alongside Boras, who usually likes to have his clients sit in on the hearings and see what’s going on, what’s being said about him.
As you might imagine, that’s not the best way for a team to make a player feel motivated to compromise when free agent negotiations occur down the road.
So the Braves took a positive step in the process, and made a fair offer. Remember, from the time Teixeira was traded to the Braves, most of us have said he could expect $12-13 mill in his final year of arbitration. And he’s getting it, without having to jump through hoops or have his agent prove to a panel that he’s worth it.
But don’t be too presumptious about what this might mean in the future. It can’t hurt the Braves’ chances, and it might even help them, however slightly. But still, it’s Scott Boras, and the man is driven to get the biggest contract possible for his clients.
That said, Teixeira surely has told him how much he likes playing in Atlanta, just as he’s told anyone else who asks. And he probably told Boras to get this deal done without going to arbitration, long as the Braves made a fair offer.
The Braves can only hope Teixeira also makes it clear to Boras that he’s not necessarily out to get every possible dollar he can on the free-agent market, that if offers are close to equal, the former Georgia Tech star would like to stay in Atlanta with his Georgia-native wife for many seasons to come.
Because if he’s out to simply get the biggest possible contract, well, you gotta think the Yankees and at least a couple other teams will offer more than the Braves — perhaps a great deal more.
So stay tuned. Wren and Boras have been talking, and they got this deal done. They have a good relationship, and have probably already had more conversations this year than Boras had with Schuerholz in the past five years.
Those are all reasons to be optimistic. But don’t forget, at the end of the day, Teixeira is represented by the most successful and demanding agent in the business. Unless his client tells him otherwise, Boras tends to have an affinity for the highest bidder.
Lillibridge could make team: In my view, two developments Thursday made it far more likely that Brent Lillibridge will make the team out of spring training than I had previously thought.
First, the trade that sent troubled Aybar to Tampa Bay. Second, news that Infante broke a hand when hit by a pitch in a game this week in Venezuela.
Infante’s being examined by Braves doctors today in Atlanta, and might have to have surgery to put a pin in there and help the healing process. The Braves believe he’ll be out until the last week or two of spring training, which means he’d probably start the season on the DL.
The Braves presumably will carry two infielders/utility men, and versatile rookie Martin Prado will probably be one of them.
But Lillibridge now figures prominently in the plans. Wren and manager Bobby Cox, who loves Lillibridge’s skills and instincts, have said all winter that if they thought they could get Lillibridge enough at-bats with the Braves, they’d consider keeping him. Otherwise, they’d want him to start the season in the minors and continue his development, because he’s too good to sit on the bench in the majors and get rusty at this stage of his career.
Now, his chances of getting those at-bats have increased. And with Aybar out of the picture, I get the impression that Lillibridge could be kept on the roster even after Infante returns, that Lillibridge might get the nod over Prado.
There’s no question which player has the greater potential — Prado might always be fighting to keep a utility job in the majors, while Lillibridge could be a future standout at one of several positions, including shortstop, second or outfield.
Prado’s worked hard and had a great spring last year. But folks should keep in mind, he’s got as many errors (three) in his past 29 major league games as he has extra-base hits (three doubles) or RBI (three). He’s hit .274 with a .308 OBP in 62 at-bats in that stretch, going back to his final game with Atlanta in 2006.
Lillibridge hasn’t played the outfield since manning center during his freshman year in college at Washington, but he’ll play there plenty in spring training. Having him as a backup center fielder could give the Braves an option to play 50 or more games if Kotsay’s back acts up again.
Infante can also play center, but the Braves don’t plan on playing him on a regular basis out there; Infante’s value and role is as a veteran utililty man, primarily in the infield.
Keep these numbers in mind: .287, 10 homers, 41 RBI, and 28 steals in 33 attempts. That’s what Lillibridge did in 87 games with Richmond last season, in his first experience in Triple-A after a mid-season promotion.
In 2006 he was the only minor leaguer (any level) to post at least a .300 average, .400 OBP, double-digit homers (13), and at least 50 RBIs (71) and 50 steals (53).
The remarkably baby-faced Lillibridge, 23, will be the youngest-looking hitter in the majors, but the kid can really play. Two words usually enter the description when you ask players or coaches about him: They say he’s a “baseball player.” That’s a high compliment from players and coaches.
The fact that the Braves didn’t hesitiate to trade Aybar even after Infante got hurt made it clear they never intended to retain him after last year’s multitude of problems, when he was late to camp because of visa issues, then missed the whole season due to injuries, substance-abuse problems and a team suspension.
They never said so, but the Braves were looking for the best offer they could get for him, and they were going to take it. Before spring training. They wanted to turn the page on Aybar, not revisit that whole story again at camp.
So he’s gone, and the Braves have a lefty, Jeff Ridgway, who is 27 and has a 189.00 ERA in three major league appearances. Hey, but at least he spells his name like Stan Ridgway of 1980s band Wall of Voodoo (“Wish I was in Tijuana, eating barbecued iguana….”)
But seriously, Ridgway has a 93-94 fastball and a good curve and changeup, and by all accounts he’s a hard worker and good guy who’s kept a positive attitude through an ungodly array of injuries since his high school years.
Reconstructive elbow surgery 11 years ago, reconstructive shoulder surgery six years ago, more elbow surgery four years ago … this dude’s got a left arm that could be used for a new edition of the board game Operation.
But he’s healthy now, and the Braves’ scouts liked what they saw from him last year in Triple-A, where Ridgway had 67 strikeouts in 64-2/3 innings and held lefty hitters to a .163 average for Durham.
He also had 30 walks for Durham and was torched for seven runs, seven hits and one walk while recording just one out in three major league appearances during his first big league callup in September. So there’s work to be done.
But Ridgway has two minor-league options left, so the Braves could send him back and forth to the minors for two years if they need to. They aren’t counting on him to be in their opening day bullpen, or even expecting him to be.
Aybar was out of options - literally and perhaps figuratively as well, in the Braves’ view. They wanted to move on, and they did.
Personally, I really hope Aybar is able to deal with his problems and have a successful career. He’s a talented kid and seems like a good guy beneath that painful shyness. I just hope being traded again to a new environment doesn’t cause him any of the problems that being pulled out of his circle of friends with the Dodgers seemed to cause when he was traded to the Braves in July 2006.
Chipper wins Braves MVP: The Atlanta chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America voted Chipper Jones the Brave of the Year for 2007. Jones got 11 of 18 votes, with John Smoltz receiving the other seven.
Annual Braves banquet: Here’s some info on upcoming annual Braves 400 Club’s winter banquet, Feb. 2 at Marriott Century Center here in Atlanta, just off I-85 just north of Clairmont exit (I know because it’s close to my house).
The theme for this year’s shindig is “Celebrating 30 Years of TBS and the Atlanta Braves,” and my man Pete Van Wieren will emcee. Gotta love Pete, who’s a fan of M. Ward and other great songwriters, by the way.
The confirmed guest list includes Hall of Famer Phil Niekro, top Braves prospect Jordan Schafer, left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes, Rick Camp, broadcasters Chip and Skip Caray, among others.
The reception and silent auction/raffle of Braves memorabilia starts at 5:30 pm., with an awards dinner at 7 p.m.
The public is invited and tickets are $65 apiece, which includes dinner and a “well-stocked goody bag” (hey, that’s what they said on the release). Make reservations on the 400 Club website (www.braves400.org) or by mailing a check to the Braves 400 Club, P.O. Box 7689, Atlanta, Ga. 30309. Information is available on the website or by calling the club’s hotline at 770-416-4539.
Speaking of great songwriters….” A tune to carry us through the weekend.
”FURTHER ON UP THE ROAD” by Bruce Springsteen
Where the road is dark and the seed is sowed
Where the gun is cocked and the bullet’s cold
Where the miles are marked in the blood and gold
I’ll meet you further on up the road
Got on my dead man’s suit and my smilin’ skull ring
My lucky graveyard boots and song to sing
I got a song to sing, keep me out of the cold
And I’ll meet you further on up the road.
Further on up the road
Further on up the road
Where the way dark and the night is cold
One sunny mornin’ we’ll rise I know
And I’ll meet you further on up the road.
Now I been out in the desert, just doin’ my time
Searchin’ through the dust, lookin’ for a sign
If there’s a light up ahead well brother I don’t know
But I got this fever burnin’ in my soul
So let’s take the good times as they go
And I’ll meet you further on up the road
Further on up the road
Further on up the road
Further on up the road
Further on up the road
One sunny mornin’ we’ll rise I know
And I’ll meet you further on up the road
One sunny mornin’ we’ll rise I know
And I’ll meet you further on up the road.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By DAP
January 18, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
hammy i feel you on the outfield. wouldnt it be sweet to have jason bay in a braves uni?
thrillhouse BTW, when did you develop DAP’s love for the lowercase?
once you go low, youll be begging for mo’…. ok thats kinda lame. but i had to give it a shot.
By Jo
January 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the Bruce, DOB.
By Shaun
January 18, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Lillibridge would be a nice centerfield and secondbase platoon. Could be a Tony Phillips type for Bobby Cox.
By CC Rider
January 18, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, I will go out on a limb and predict at some point in the next 2 seasons B. Lillibridge will replace Kelly Johnson at 2B. I like Kelly but Bobby C. likes defense more at the middle infield spots than offense. Kelly will probably be used in a trade either for a 1st baseman if Texiera leaves or a young closer if Soriano leaves and Gonzalez doesn’t recover completely OR in a multi-player deal for a top pitcher. You put Lillibridge with his speed, power,OBP and defense at he top of the order with Jordan Schafer in the 2 hole and his power, extra base ability, bat control, speed and you have the set up guys for the middle of the order that would be the envy of most teams in baseball.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Ridgway’s Minor League Splits:
Split vs. Lefties
Split vs. Righties
DOB: TennPaul, those lefty stats on Ridgway not complete in 2007, for some reasons. I looked at those same stats that you did, and they have him four innings short. His lefty OBA was actually .163….
Fascinating. I’ll have to check around some other sources. I’m not sure the 4 extra innings is really going to improve his Righty splits though. He still looks more like a situational guy than a 2007 Ron Mahay type.
By dexterdawg
January 18, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
I loke the direction that our Braves are headed in. They are still doing things the right way after all these years, the kind of things like not gambling on bad players, and handing out awful contracts like other teams…ie the Yankees! Go bravos!
By chuckw/deadjournalist
January 18, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
despite all the great info in this post, i’m most intrigued by the thought of pete’s playlist. curious minds want to know!
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Just opened my mail and got notification that Chipper won the Braves MVP award from the local chapter of the BBWAA. He got 11 of 18 votes, and Smoltz got the other seven.
I’ll add that to original blog now.
By Steeledawg
January 18, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
DOB- Have you heard anything regarding play by play pairings for all of the different TV stations for next year? I really enjoyed Boog and Simpson last year.
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
TennPaul: no, his righty splits ain’t impressive. Looks to me to be no more than a situational guy if he ever sticks in majors.
By timmy h
January 18, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
I hate to say it but if your hoping for a discount with a Boras client you may be crushed. By the way DOB”One piece at a time” is and will always be my favorite Man in Black song! Go Braves!
By Shaun
January 18, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
CC Rider, gee, I hope Kelly Johnson isn’t moved. Too many smart baseball people think Kelly is one of the best young players in the game. Of course it depends on what the Braves could get but I’d imagine it would be hard to get equal value for KJ.
By Hmmm
January 18, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
And Tony Romo likes Boobs of Simpson. Interesting…
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Well, sounds to me like Wren’s plan for center-field this year is to just thrown as much stuff as possible at it and see what sticks… As of today, I’ve now heard about Blanco, Schafer, Anderson, Kotsay and Lillibridge as possible center fielders in 2008. That worries me a little, but I guess its better than having all of your eggs in one basket (see Scott Thorman and First Base in 2007).
I personally don’t see any way in he!! that Kotsay will play more than 120 games this season. In fact, I’d be shocked if he made it to June without at least 1 trip to the DL. One question for you DOB (and I’m sure its been covered by you at some point already, but sorry, I don’t read every word of every blog you write) does Anderson have any options left?
By McFann
January 18, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Chipper won the Braves MVP? I thought David Not wRight was for sure going to walk home with that one. Oh well.
Course, we all know who won the Braves Player of the Year for 2006…or do we? This should be int’resting.
By flange1
January 18, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
CC Rider,
I agree to a certain extent that the Braves will be in an interesting situation when Lillibridge IS ready to start. He plays OF, 2B, SS and 3B, and the braves have young studs (except Chipper who is an older stud) in all of those positions.
I think one of a group of Lillibridge, Escobar, B. Jones, Frenchy, Schafer or Kelly Johnson will have to be moved in 2009 unless Tex leaves and KJ or Chipper moves to first.
I don’t think KJ will lose his spot this year unless he regresses at the plate BIG TIME. I actually think he will get better at the plate this year. He is one of my favorite guys to watch at the plate.
By Shaun
January 18, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
CC Rider, I would also add that while KJ isn’t a Gold Glover, his defense isn’t as bad as his reputation.
He was fifth among NL 2B in Revised Zone Rating and 6th in plays made outside his defensive zone. He was 2nd in Plays. He did make 10 Fielding Errors and 4 Throwing Errors but seems to have good range, which will help him make up for the plays he boots.
By Ramblin Wrecker
January 18, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Can I just say that I’m impressed with Frank Wren? I guess the consensus might be that after a legend stepped aside, you’d expect to be let down just a bit by the next guy. You know, either a guy who is too eager to make moves and overreaches, or a guy who is afraid to make a move for fear of messing up. If Frank Wren’s offseason was a boxscore line, he’d be something like 4 for 5 with some big runs driven in. I mean, shoring up the starting rotation with Glavine, an innings eater (and sentimental favorite) to slot in behind Smoltz and Hudson, and adding back of the rotation depth (and organizational depth at CF) by trading Renteria for Jurrjens/Hernandez, thereby opening up a spot to get phenom Yunel Escobar in the lineup full time, adding a lefty reliever for depth and utility infielder by trading one right handed reliever, trading for a veteran CF to bridge the gap to Jordan Schaefer in Kotsay and giving up Devine (I hate to see Devine go, but we’ll see how it turns out) and then getting something in return (a hard throwing lefty reliever) for Aybar who just as easily might have been released. He’s been fearless and focused on his needs, but also smart about the moves. And he tops it off by getting Teixiera signed without arbitration to set up the best possible negotiating environment that the Braves can hope for come next fall. Great job Mr. Wren!!!!
By cityofdecatur
January 18, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
hey DOB u could have a real job. no that didn’t come out right. hey DOB you could have a job with some heavy lifting so enjoy what you got. ya know that didn’t come out right either. Anyway keep up the good no great work and to paraphrase Dean Martin ‘keep those songs and lyrics coming in’. your the best sports writer since Outlar and since Bisher started drooling all over his work.!
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
2006 MVP was probably Andruw Jones McFann
By DAP
January 18, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
CC Rider you may be right about johnson. everyone knows that lillibridge has got to start at some point…and itll probbaly be really soon. if there is any way for us to hang on to johnson AND lillibridge, id really like to see it happen, because like ive said before, within a few years, i think johnson will be alot like what chase utley is now. how sweet would it be, if in 5 years, our team looks like this:
C- Brian McCann 1B- Mark Teixeira 2B- Kelly Johnson 3B- Yunel Escobar SS- Brent Lillibridge LF- B. Jones CF- Jordan Shaefer RF- Jeff Francouer
alot of unknowns 5 years from now obviously!!! but its cool to have alot of promising young players to look forward to seeing.
By Braveheart
January 18, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Interesting link to the Eminem story, Braveheart. Seems to me that Debbie is trying to sensationalize things to make money off her book. At least that’s what I hope.
Thrillhouse Yeah, it’s no wonder Em always raps about killing his mother.
I just responded to your email from the other day. Sorry about the delay.
BTW, when did you develop DAP’s love for the lowercase?
Gotta vary the style, man. Sometimes I rhyme low, sometimes I rhyme quick.
Since I am citing that Nice N Smooth song, I’ll cite the end of it, since it is kinda applicable as to why the Braves traded away Willy Aybar:
Sometimes I rhyme slow, sometimes I rhyme quick, I was on 125 and Saint Nick, Waiting on a cab, standing in the rain, Under my heart three clouds of pain, She got the best of me, What was her destiny?, Maybe I should lick her with my nine millime…ter, My mind is in a blur, Cause you could never pay me to think this would occur, Me and this girl Jane Doe was living together, We were inseparable, noone could sever, At least that’s what I thought, But later I fought with her substance, And almost ended up in Supreme Court, When I was on the road doing shows getting biz, She was in my penz getting stiffy with her friends, And even when she crashed my whip I didn’t flip, My man Slick Nick said Smooth you’re starting to slip, Time went on I started noticing weight loss, Then I had to ask her was she riding the white horse, At first she said no, then she said yo Smooth I’m sorry, But I keep having visions of snow, I need doe, And I said woah little hottie, I’m not DeLorian, Gambino or Gotti, I don’t deal coke, and furthermore you’re making me broke, I’ll put you in a rehab and I won’t tell your folks, And what do you know, In 18 months she came home and I let her back in, And now she’s sniffing again…
By McFann
January 18, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
2006 MVP was probably Andruw Jones McFann
Nope. Guess again.
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
One thing that I haven’t heard brought up in regards to free-agents-to-be Mark Teixera and Rafael Soriano is that if they do walk they’d almost certainly qualify as Type “A” free agents… Meaning we would get the first round pick of whichever teams sign them, so it wouldn’t be a total loss if neither are retained. 3 picks in the top 30 would definately provide a nice little boost to our farm system (especially when you consider Heyward was the #14 pick this past year and may already be the Braves #1 prospect)…
Of course, ideally I want both of them back next season, but there is the draft picks there to at least cushion the blow…
By KC
January 18, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
“Chipper wins Braves MVP: The Atlanta chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America voted Chipper Jones the Brave of the Year for 2007. Jones got 11 of 18 votes, with John Smoltz receiving the other seven.”
Chipper won only because they couldn’t figure out a way to give that award to David Wright.
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Nice 2012 lineup DAP, but I would probably replace B Jones with Jason Heyward. Or maybe if we don’t sign Tex long term, Heyward instead of Tex at 1B. One thing is for sure, the Braves organization knows how to produce major league hitters… Pitchers on the other hand?? eh… I worry about what the 2012 rotation will look like more than the lineup.
By Ramblin Wrecker
January 18, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Dap,
I don’t think Escobar is going to be shifting off SS for Lillibridge. I mean, Renteria wasn’t traded in anticipation of Lillibridge being ready to take over, it was for Escobar. The Braves wouldn’t have parted with such a sure handed SS in Renteria for a guy they only think will be there a year or so. And all the talk you hear from the Braves and DOB is that Lillibridge is sharpening his utility skills to make the team as a backup SS,2B,CF guy.
Plus I don’t think you can fast forward 5 years and automatically assume that Chipper Jones isn’t on this team. He’s gone this far as a Brave and he isn’t about to be cast off like Andruw Jones was. He’s got skills that are still improving as a hitter, unlike Andruw who’s hitting is on the decline (and his defense to a lesser degree). Plus he’s shown a willingness to work with the Braves’ front office to rework his contract to make keeping him a viable option. In your 5 year scenario I’d say there’s more of a chance of Chipper being here than Tex.
By Ramblin Wrecker
January 18, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
DAP,
And your 5 years out projection might be a little more accurate with Jason Heyward in LF instead of Brandon Jones. Heyward was drafted last summer and is already their best minor league prospect. He won’t be in the minor leagues for 5 more years.
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Must have been McCann then, McFann
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
DonC, yes, Anderson has an option left.
And make no mistake, Kotsay is THE center fielder on this team as long as he’s healthy. If he can hold up, he’ll be out there 150 games.
Really don’t see how you can fault Braves for having fallback options should he fail to remain healthy.
By Tim
January 18, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
A little off the subject, but since we’ve seen some firming up of contracts, why has Franceour not been locked up yet in a long term contract? McCann got locked up last year, we’ve locked up Tex for a year with big money and only a hope of future years, so, why not Frenchy?
By 22oz
January 18, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
I agree with RamblinWrecker (hard to agree w/ a Tech fan, but i do) on Frank Wren. I was thinking of filing a post to that same extent. I am very impressed with Wren’s moves this winter. He has seen the needs of this club and pulled the trigger. Now i know it helps to have more wiggle room in the payroll, but he still has been quite good in the moves he made so far without taking on alot of salary, and has dealt from areas of strength in the organization such as middle infield and right handed relief. I knew Aybar wouldn’t make the team, the Braves have never put up with that stuff. Chipper’s comment last year about Aybar said it all: “I didn’t know he was still on the team.” Offseason checklistStopgap CF: Done, also got backup stopgapBetter backup IF than Woodward: done (ok that couldn’t have been too hard)Starting pitcher: DoneLH reliever: done, and doneAlso added more depth in minors and back of rotation. I can’t see how he coulda done any better.
By Efrim
January 18, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
DAP
Heyward has to be in that 2012 lineup. How about this:
C McCann 1B Heyward 2B Johnson SS Lillibridge 3B Gilmore LF Jones CF Schafer RF Francouer
No Yunel or Tex. Escobar doesn’t project as a everyday 3rd baseman. They usually hit for more power. I think Lillibridge could supplant Yunel if given the opportunity. Who knows though. I’m thinking Tex will be in the Yanks 2012 lineup. Heyward could be moved to first and Jon Gilmore is the kid we drafted this past year. But lets be honest, their are 4 more drafts to go before 2012. Plenty of time….
By Renegator
January 18, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog on a beautiful Friday DOB.
CCRider: What about moving Kelly Johnson to first once Teixiera is gone. Then Lillibridge can slide into the everyday 2B slot and hit leadoff. Johnson learned how to play 2B over one off season - could he learn 1B?
By ncscoots
January 18, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Folks, I like Lillibridge’s ceiling as much as the next guy, but assuming he would displace Escobar at SS at some point is, well, boggling. At least, if Escobar fulfills his potential. You don’t move a guy like that to 3B from SS.
As far as Lillibridge displacing Kelly, that might be kinda hard to do if KJ becomes Jeff Kent Lite, as he seems well on his way to becoming. That bonus power from 2B might come in handy over the next few years…a lot more than SB from Lillibridge.
By mtb
January 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
The More i look at the Braves the less exicited I get. I use to look forward to baseball season because of the Braves but now with TBS endind its contract and with the way the organization is forming I’m one of the few who isn’t happy. I wonder what will happen this year if Texiera and CJ struggle as badly as AJ did last year. Will we treat them like we did AJ or will they be welcomed to stay. This team is totally different form the team I rooted for in the early to mid 90s
By Hammy the Brave
January 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I agree with you about keeping Kelly Johnson, I think he can be even more valuable to us later on.
IMO, I consider him a better fit defensively at 3B, which I believe he played 1 yr in the minors. Especially if 3B prospects Van Pope and Eric Campbell don’t work out, KJ can start or certainly backup at 3B.
Hammy the Brave
By 22oz
January 18, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Geez, sorry about the end of my post running together, wasn’t like that when i typed it. Oh well, not Nobel Prize winning stuff anyways.
DOB can’t you just imagine Frank Wren at the trading deadline? You think he’s busy now, give him a deadline!
By Luther
January 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
My post feom the end of last blog if anyone can answer:
I am confused about Mike Gonzalez’s deal. Does the insurance cover his new contract while he is on the 60 day DL, even knowing that he will start out on the DL? Would an arbitration hearing award a player with a contract of over 2 mil when you are hoping for a half season at best. Would he have gotten a bigger contract if they knew he was going to play the whole year? Just curious.
By TURTSNAP
January 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Hey DAP, nice little blog into the future there. Don’t forget one other player, last years number 1 pick from Henry County, I believe his name is Heyward (or Hayward), anyways, I’ve heard mention of him being a 5-tool OF.
By McFann
January 18, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Must have been McCann then, McFann.
DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!
What’s this about Tex being locked up for a year? And how’s he gonna use all that money in solitary confinement? No current Brave has been locked up, what are you talking about? OK, I’ll stop there. Sorry.
But seriously, folks, (I’ve typed this before), the Braves tried to get Francoeur “locked up” last year, but he and his agent wanted more dough than the Braves were offering. Let’s see if this link thingy works:
Here’s where I got this from
By TURTSNAP
January 18, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
MTB, you must not be in the Atlanta tv market, as the braves games will now be on Peachtree tv instead of TBS. Secondly, no way that CJ and Tex struggle as mightily as AJ, the Braves didn’t dump on AJ, they made a wise baseball decision and didn’t pursue resigning him. I, for one, was happy at the end of 2005 when it was leaked that AJ was being shopped, I wish the Braves would’ve got something for him. I grew weary about five years ago with AJ’s inability to lay of the 0-2 1-2 curveballs outside of the zone.
By TURTSNAP
January 18, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
DOB, any word on the projection for Kyle Davies this year? Is he still with the Royals?
By CharlieAlphaBravo
January 18, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Ramblin’ Wrecker:
I’m going to have to agree on all counts. I couldn’t be more pleased with Wren’s immidiate impact on the club. All of the moves he has made so far look superb on paper. Can’t be sure how it will all work out, but he’s put the Bravos in the best position possible to win now and in the future. What more can you ask of a general manager?
That being said, Jackets eat poo. Go dawgs!
By DJScrib
January 18, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The only thing I dislike about this is the fact that once again we’re moving around relief pitchers. I understand Aybar was out of options. (I believe Devine was as well which was part of why he was moved). But doesn’t it seem like every year we are short of relief pitching, and have to deal away young players to get some. Then in the offseason, we lose and trade away more relief pitchers to start the cycle all over again. We dumped Betemit for relief, prospects for Mahay, estrada for villeareal/cormier, etc. etc. etc. But we have a history of letting guys go and/or trading them as well. Wendell, McMichael, Villareal, Stanton, etc. etc. etc.
I just thing this is the area where maybe we should overpay a bit for our 3-5 relievers and stop the revolving door which also seems to bleed of us prospects.
Also, this new guy seems like a longshot to be any good, which begs the question, why give up on our 2nd round pick from 2006 so quickly?
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
As long as we are speculating and moving the infielders everywhere… Let’s move Kelly to first and put Yunel at catcher, move McCann to Center, Schafer to 2nd, Lillibridge to LF, and B. Jones to third.
The issue of having Lillibridge develope into a “star” while KJ and Yunel put up “star” numbers while manning the middle is a problem I want to have. So I’ll be cheering for it until it happens or has no chance of happening. And if it does happen, some one will be traded. The blog will explode on that point and depending on what is acquired in return could collapse in on itself and then re-explode.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
McFann: I don’t know if anyone has asked this already so excuse the redundancy if so, but are you one of the Canns that show up in the outfield? On days McCann is off do you double as one of the Franks?
By doug
January 18, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Wow, it’s been a long time since I’ve posted here, but here it goes.
DJScrib, huhhhh????
There, that should cover me for a while.
By DAP
January 18, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
TURTSNAP yeah, i forgot about hayward! needless to say, not everyone of our young guys is gonna have a slot… i guess we’ll have to see how it shakes out!
By JC FROM UT
January 18, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
DOB: Could you please explain how players become arbitration eligible and for how many years they are under arbitration status?
By McFann
January 18, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Dang. My link didn’t work. And no, 10Paul, I was not.
By ncscoots
January 18, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
The blog will explode on that point and depending on what is acquired in return could collapse in on itself and then re-explode.
Yes, that could turn into a day that would shame Chickamauga…or, at least, scare even Viggo Mortensen.
I live for the day, simply to say “I was there”. LMAO
By TommyP
January 18, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Traded Aybar and Fontaine for this lefty? Not saying that what we gave up is a ton but it would appear that the Braves are pretty sure this lefty can land a bullpen spot this year and for a few years down the road.
Just based on what’s been printed, it just would appear that Aybar straight up would be enough.
By FJR
January 18, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
DOB, feel free to give your thoughts on this, but I’d tend to see Escobar moving to third eventually when Chipper retires and lillibridge taking short. I really dont think we have THAT much longer with chipper. Escobar would of course have to make an adjustment, but he’s young and athletic enough that I dont think it would be a huge deal. He also seems to fit the mold of a third baseman slightly better than a conventional shortstop, he’s built kind of like A-Rod and I think the switch could be made with similar results.
Bobby likes KJ a lot and I only see his defense getting better. He COULD be traded, but I dont see it as something that is particularly likely. He’s relatively cheap, has experience, is one of our few disciplined hitters, etc.
and here is a simple Noel Gallagher song you’ve probably never heard, enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5efXnQIBmc
By flange1
January 18, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
I thought Aybar was worth more than what we got, but FW I am sure got what he could.
I think we will see a couple more of these kind of deals to spin “parts” players that we have extras of for prospects or “parts” players we do need.
I really like this team and feel FW has done an excellent job of fixing the holes in the team he inherited.
1 more stud relief pitcher and I think the team is set.
By the way, DAP, I agree with most of your posts! I get ready to post an idea and se you have beat me to the punch… Keep it up!!!
By No Name
January 18, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Why did they find it necessary to ship another minor leaguer along with Aybar for a pitcer like Ridgeway? IMO Ridgeway is worth nothing at all and should not even be on the roster. Dumping Aybar is one thing, but adding another player? Am I missing something here?
By Mitchie-san
January 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
DOB Whew, After the long move back to States, I am finally settled. I havent been on the blog in a while. I miss Japan, but its nice to be back in the good ole USA. Its good to see things havent changed much around here. I am looking forward to a great year from the Braves!!!!!!!
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
DOB you said: “Really don’t see how you can fault Braves for having fallback options should he (Kotsay) fail to remain healthy.”
I am not faulting the Braves, if you read my entire post I said: “sounds to me like Wren’s plan for center-field this year is to just throw as much stuff as possible at it and see what sticks….its better than having all of your eggs in one basket (see Scott Thorman and First Base in 2007).”
So I wasn’t faulting him DOB, I actually think it is good to have multiple options heading into a season instead of going “all in” with one player…
By Roman Gal
January 18, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
You should read this
By Roman Gal
January 18, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
You should read this
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Chipper’s days at 3B are limited. That doesn’t mean anything other than to say he will be 36 and on the downside of his career. Larry jr. should probably be expected to play another two or maybe three seasons. He is under contract through 2008 with a team option for 2009.
Don’t get me wrong , the man is coming off a great season where he hit .337 with 108 runs scored , 29 HR’s and 102 RBI.
I’m just wondering how long he can keep this up , his legs are brittle as eggshells and Chipper reminds me so much of Mickey Mantle at this point in his career. The Mick played through the age of 36 until his legs were totally shot after eighteen seasons.
Chipper has some gas left in the tank , but with those legs , I can see an infield of Escobar at 3B , KJ at 2B and lillibridge playing SS sometime in the near future.
I know he really doesn’t want to ever play 1B. But with my belief that the Braves probably won’t keep Teixeira beyond 2008 without breaking the Bank and no option to consider at 1B other than Scott Thorman , this will get interesting next off-season.
Then when considering the emergence of Escobar , lillibridge and KJ , it’s a decision that the Braves will have to face. In the present , it’s all systems go for the playoffs !
Lets GO Braves In 2008 !!!!
By ncgary
January 18, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
i agree three cheers for wren, didnt agree with all the moves at first , but the direction of the team seems better, still want that Christmas wish of another starter, but i realize i have no idea the limitations liberty has on payroll, so lets hope for the best that hampton is healthy and makes this wish unneeded
By McFann
January 18, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
OK, since my link didn’t work, I’ll give you this quote from the article from atlantabraves.com that mentioned Francoeur’s attempted contract:
But Francoeur’s long-term deal will have to wait. Like McCann, he was approached about a contract extension at the beginning of March. But it’s believed the counterproposal by Hammond was nearly double what the Braves originally offered.
Still, Francoeur showed absolutely no sense of jealousy or animosity when he came through the clubhouse doors at Disney’s Wide World of Sports Complex on Thursday morning. All seemed normal. As usual, the 23-year-old right fielder was wearing a bright smile and walking alongside McCann.
“My agent has talked to [the Braves],” Francoeur said. “But right now, I’m just thrilled to death for Brian. He deserves it. He’s worked hard.”
When asked if he wished that he could have made the simultaneous announcement that he’d given both Francoeur and McCann an extension, Schuerholz responded: “I’ll talk about Brian today. This is his day.”
OK, that copy-and-paste thing was fun. Anyway, there you go.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Scoots: I live for the day, simply to say “I was there”.
Yes. That will truly be a day of days. Perhaps we can get another T-Shirt created commemorating the moment. On the sleave it could say “Park Adjusted”.
Still sporting all those T-Shirts from the last time… They get pretty tight after a few times through the wash. At least that’s my guess. Could have something to do with the increased consumption of distilled spirits… nah.
By roan st
January 18, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Signing Tex is a must or the Braves front office has failed miserably! I don’t like hearing frank wren him-haw around about how fans shouldn’t get their hopes up. Are you kidding me? We literally gave up half the farm to get this guy and if we weren’t absolutely sure we could resign him then maybe the braves should not have made the deal. If we can’t afford these soon to be free agent players then quit freakin trading for them. If we lose this guy to free agency while traded prospects like salty and elvis become very good players then we have lost big.
By CC Rider
January 18, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
To Shaun, Flange1 and Renegator, Hey guys I agree that Kelly Johnson could be a heck of a player. Shaun, I don’t want to see Kelly go, but I know Bobby Cox has always prefered the best up the middle defense he can get. Kelly is solid defensively, but he doesn’t have the range nor the arm that Lillibridge has. Flange1 and Renegator both mentioned if Texiera leaves or Chipper retires he could be moved to first or third and if those events happen in a timely manner that would be fine. I am going on the assumption that Texiera resigns (I know that is a long shot to many, but the quiet emnating from the Boras propganda machine makes me think serious talks are ongoing) and Chipper still has 3 or 4 years in him ( Also a desire to put Hall of Fame numbers). So, I am speculating that the odd man out will be Kelly. I also think Jason Heyward could be a fast mover and Leftfield we get interstin in a few years. Kelly, B. Jones, Gorky Hernandez would be an impressive start to a package for a No.1 starter.
By Roman Gal
January 18, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Anyways, if you didn’t want to read that link, here is a portion that is near the end:
We hear from Mister Plum that Tex and Missus Tex have relocated to a suburb north of Atlanta.
By OrlandoFan
January 18, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
You guys worried about who will play where in 2012 might want to be a bit more patient and consider who will play how well between now and then. Makes me chuckle to read the posts, especially TennPauls’ tongue-in-cheeek shuffling of the lineup that looks like a game of push-‘em-up. Very funny. Wouldn’t it be great in almost all this year’s starting 8 were around in 2012, because that would mean success during the interim.
By flange1
January 18, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal,
Thanks for that link! The last I heard was that Tex was staying in Arlington. This is a good sign for the future….
By McFann
January 18, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
McCann, Teixiera, Infante…who’s the next Brave to have some sort of surgery?
You all keep talking about the great range of Lillibridge. Keep in mind that he has no major league experience. The speed of the game could take him by surprise…
By mo in the boonies
January 18, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Been busy the last couple days with Dr visits. Just got around to viewing the slut…er…Athlete’s wives list. The thought occurs, why would they subject themselves to those kind of poses? Don’t need the money… live fabulous lives…so why bother?
The trade for Aybar sounds like a candidate for a rocking chair list for the Braves locker room. Why is it that a lot of the Brave’s trades are guys who are damaged, just getting over injuries, or almost sure to be getting injured in the near future? Were they that eager to dump Aybar? Ridgway had Tommy Johns surgery already in high school? How did he ever even make it into the majors?
I always thought that the Braves trade deal for Tex included this year…2008. And he wasn’t due for arbitration until the end of the upcoming season. Now we find he had to be signed to a new contract to insure he would play for the braves this year. So they really traded Salty and all the others for a half a season with Tex?
Braveheart But the good news about the Packer/Giants game is that Farve was on Sports Illustrated cover this week…cursed?
I don’t understand why the Braves keep picking up guys to play ss, sb,and outfield, when what they really need is someone to play third when chipper is out those 25 or 30 games. I know they plan on moving one of the ss or 2nd basemen over to third, but why not pick up a regular third base guy, (who can hit for power) instead of getting more shortstops who might be able to play third? And I’m betting that Infante’s hand is never going to be the same when it heals, all those small bones in the hand are hard to heal strongly, and they will be very brittle and easily re-broken. And please can they get rid of Thorman?
FJR Bobby Cox used to like KJ…until he couldn’t bunt when asked to by Cox. I like the way Kelly Johnson plays, and I like him leading off in the lineup. But that being said, once you get on Bobby Cox’s Sh!t List you never get off it, so I look for him to get the shaft this year, and next year be gone. bummer
I wonder what barbecued iguana tastes like?
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about that. The only thing I’ve read about Teixeira’s place of residence is the following:
[Teixeira] plans to start hitting and working on his defensive skills when he returns to his Arizona residence later this week
—01/13/2008 Mark Bowman
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Braves signed Diaz today, leaving only Soriano unsigned among arb guys. They’ll keep negotiating and probably come to an agreement before it gets to a hearing. That’s what usually happens, at least….
Infante had surgery on his left hand, and yes it was a finger (someone asked last night, and I said I was told hand, not finger. I guess finger’s part of the hand, right?) Anyway, had a pin put in there, cast 4-6 weeks, supposed to resume baseball activities in mid-March, as expected. That’ll probably put him on DL to start season, but that’s not a certainty.
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Nice article on Tex RomanGal, of course the big thing to take out of that article is the fact that Teixera turned down an 8 year, $140 million extension with Texas… Wow, don’t think the Braves will be able to top that one (I bet they come in at right around that figure though)… Of course I remember hearing (at that time) about how upset Teixera was with the Rangers organization in general; and even an offer in the $200 million range wouldn’t have gotten him to stay in Texas.
One thing is for certain, ol’ BC needs to work his magic this season and make it impossible for Tex to leave…
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Doc, thanks much for the book. Never read that, but will now. Heard it’s great….
Mo, you’re a bit fuzzy on the arbitration system, I think. Teixeira’s a FREE AGENT at end of 2008. Everyone’s eligible for arbitration after three years of service time, then for three years they go through arbitration, then hit free agency. He was under Braves control for 2008, his final year of arbitration.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
mo in the boonies: So they really traded Salty and all the others for a half a season with Tex?
No. This can be a bit confusing. The way the system works is, a player moves up to the majors. He is “under control” by the MLB team for 6 years. The first 3 years the team can assign him a deal. A non-negotiable deal so to speak. Though typically I think they work with the player to make sure most are happy. After the 3rd year a player becomes arbitration eligible. So years 4, 5 and 6 the player has a right to take the team to arbitration if the team offers the player aribitration.
What this means is a player entering his 4, 5 or 6th season in the majors can make a counter offer to the clubs initial arbitration offer. If they disagree (i.e. don’t sign a contract) they go before an arbitor who listens to both sides of the story then picks one side and that’s the deal.
In the event of Teixeira, the Braves offered him arbitration guaranteeing they were bringing him back. Then they offered him the contract. Teixeira liked the deal and signed. He could have countered with more money and forced the arbitration hearing and all sorts of mess would come…
As another example, Marcus Giles was an arbitration eligible player. The Braves did not offer him Arbitration. This made Marcus a free agent after only 4 years or so instead of 6 years. They did this because the rules of arbitration prohibit the team from offering a contract that is 20% less than the previous year. That would have resulted in a struggling, less productive Marcus Giles making 5+ million. When Giles was granted Free Agency he signed for 3+ million with the Padres. They kicked him to the curb this year and he signed a minor league deal with the Rockies….
Back to the Teixeira trade, the Braves, at the time of the trade, were guaranteed to have control over Teixeira for 2007 and 2008. This control granted them the ability to sign him or not. Obviously they wanted him back.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
I wonder what barbecued iguana tastes like?
Chicken.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
DOB: So Soriano is the last one standing… When do all the other guys contracts get squared away? That is to say, all the non-arbi guys. And just for good measure, any word on an extension for Francoeur? If not, think they’ll deal him for Crawford?
By StingerSplash
January 18, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
Surely someone would have riffed (ripped off?) former paratrooper Johnny Allen (Jimi) Hendrix in discussing Mr. Lillibridge’s experience, or lack thereof, at the major league level by now. Trumpets and violins I can hear in the distance…. Must be calling the start of spring training….
By rich brave
January 18, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
TNRON:
On the previous blog I postulated that Lillibridge was ahead of Prado defensively and Prado was ahead of Lillibridge with the bat. Yous asked why. Prado did well here with the bat yet this is a pitchers park. Lillibridge found it harder to pick up the ball than in the lower minors, and has less experience at AAA. At the end of my post however, I said I believed Lillibridge would stick before Prado because I think of the two, Lillibridge has the higher potential. For the IF position they would fill, I think defense is most important in ‘08.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
10Paul , I think the Braves have long term plans for Jeff Francoeur and none for Carl Crawford.
In six full seasons , Crawford has yet to post a one hundred RBI season , Francoeur has already done it twice. Crawford is a two time all-star.
Crawford is more of a five tool talent than Jeff is. Crawford is a speed merchant on the base paths while Francoeur is a better power hitter and lets not forget that Gold Glove that frenchy just won.
The moral of this story is : if it ain’t broke , don’t try to fix it.
By rich brave
January 18, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Tennessee Paul:
To me Francouer is the one player that will ultimately be here when Chip is gone. If he improves offensively and becomes the hitter I believe he will, he will be the face of the Atlanta Braves for years to come. The new Dale Murphy if you will. Why else is he always in those internet pictures with the top executives of the Braves?
By N8
January 18, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
Nice Mexican Radio lyric reference. Well done. How long have you been trying to squeeze that in somewhere? LOL!
Efrim
Don’t everybody jump me for saying this (especialy our newest whipping boy), but I’m not so sure that McCann is in our 2012 starting lineup.
I don’t see it happening. The Braves locked him up with that contract last spring, which might differ with my theory, but if salaries keep going where they are going, that would make his contract very friendly for an American League team looking for a guy to catch and DH.
I just don’t see him being healthy enough to catch 4 out of 5 days by the time he’s around 30. Maybe I’m wrong, and the reason I don’t see him at 1B is due to Heyward.
The Braves will have replaced McCann with a younger, cheaper catcher by that season.
You heard it hear first.
Of course the NL adopts the DH, I’ll change my “angle” on that assumption. :-)
The Braves “track record” for keeping players for that long, are few and far between. Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux (who wouldn’t have kept them all that long), Chipper and Andruw.
That’s it. Nobody else I can think of that have been around (and starting) for more than 7 or 8 years (I believe that 2012 will be McCann’s 8th year).
Javy was close, but that was about the point in his career, where they let him go as well (coming off of a MONSTER season too).
I just don’t see it. Whether Francoeur ends up being the better player over McCann or not, is surely debatable, but I could see him being a Brave longer than McCann, just due to the demand of the position he plays.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
No financial terms on the new Diaz contract , how the hell are we supposed to argue over the payroll ? ARGHHH !!
While I totally agree that the Braves needed another lefty in the bullpen. The Braves overpaid for Jeff Ridgway. He does have options , which helps with roster flexibility.
Trading a veteran utility infielder and switch hitter who plays good defense (Aybar) along with a 2nd round pick SS in Chase Fontaine for a 14th round pick (Ridgway) who may end up as depth in Richmond , I think Frank Wren dropped the ball on this one.
While it is a rather minor trade not worth getting bent out of shape over , I have to wonder if politics factored into this decision because it appears that somebody wanted Aybar gone. I’ll give this trade a D minus.
The Braves do have depth on the infield with Prado and lillibridge. Infante’s injury won’t keep him out long as we already know.
While the Ridgway trade will help depth wise , I’m not sure if it actually made the team better.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Well , N8. McCann will only be 28 in 2012. Javy Lopez was the Braves full time catcher for the better part of twelve seasons until he was 34.
I think you are entitled to your opinion. But , it’s a real reach to look that far into the future.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
Humour is lost on a few it seems.
By DonCoburleone
January 18, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Have a good weekend guys… GO BRAVES!!!
By Steamboat
January 18, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
What I still don’t understand is… who is our backup 3B?
Though I hope not, you’ve gotta figure Chipper will spend some time out of the lineup in ‘08. At best, he’ll need some rest.
I just don’t like the idea of moving your starting SS (Escobar) to 3B in case of an injury - that upsets the whole infield. Lillibridge has never played 3rd (that I know of) and Prado has a weak bat - certainly not a corner infield bat.
Am I missing something, or are we short one backup third baseman?
By Train Wreck Bystander
January 18, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
It certainly [i]has[/i] been a busy couple of weeks.
It’s hard to believe we have 3 spring games coming up the last week of February. The winter has flown by.
There is one burning issue yet to be resolved, however.
How will WPCH’s games be distributed through the rest of the Braves television market?
Those of us in MS, AL, TN, etc. are trying to get our packages lined up with cable/satellite, etc.
By Efrim
January 18, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
N8
I commend you for having the guts to say that. If you had said it about Frenchy, people would of verbally pelted you on this blog.
Anything can happen between now and 2012. We could decide to draft a stud catcher in the 2009 draft. He could develop quickly, and McCann could be dealt to make room. It very well could happen.
Personally, I think it is more likely that Frenchy won’t be on the team in 2012. With Heyward, Cody Johnson, Brandon Jones and Jordan Schafer yet to start their 6 year clock, Francouer could be the odd man out of that projected 2012 lineup. But again, really, really early. 4 more drafts before that happens. 3 more(hopefully) first round draft picks before then.
By McFann
January 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Seriously, Neight (Yeah, it’s me, the new “whipping…uh—boy”), why do have to be such a pessimist? And really, what is the point of looking that far ahead? But if we’re going to, why not look at it in a good way? Your post is exactly the kind of thing I don’t like to give any thought to, but since you brought it up, I have to comment.
You heard it here first.
Correct!! Now you read this here first: If what you type turns out to be true, you’re gonna get it from me, boy!!
That is, if we’re both still around these parts. But I don’t see that happening. Perhaps I don’t see you in DOB’s starting lineup for the Bloggers. You read it here first, nyuck nyuck!!
Sorry. But pray everyday that McCann will have a long, good career with the Braves. We shall see, Neight.
And yeah!! He’ll only be 28 in ‘12. But jeepers! I’m sure someone out there is thinking, “Well, if he doesn’t watch his weight, he won’t have a very long career!” Sheeeeeeeesh. I bet Wayne pops up for this one.
Here’s a thought: Why don’t we let his career unfold more on it’s own!! Yeah!! That sounds good, doesn’t it? Then maybe—just maybe—he’ll be a Brave for as long as he plays.
And hopefully that will be a lot longer than eight years.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Well, one other good thing about Teixeira signing for 12.5 is, next off season the Braves are guaranteed to offer him arbitration. And if for some stupid, unkown reason he accepts that instead of signing a long term deal, the cost if retaining him shouldn’t be horrid. But I’d venture a guess he’ll sign long term. Nevertheless, we can be assured of at least a draft pick when he signs with the Yankees or Mets or Orioles or Giants or Angels…
By McFann
January 18, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Yeah!! You tell ‘im how it is, Efrim!! But I wouldn’t commend what he typed. I think it was—for lack of a better word—stupid. Seriously, Francoeur could very well be somewhere else in 2012. McCann’s got a contract, Francoeur doesn’t. Hmm. But yeah, it’s early. And I don’t want to pull a “Neight” about Francoeur after I balled Neight out for typin’ what he typed about McCann.
By ncscoots
January 18, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Man, you gotta love January. 2012 lineups sprinkled with a kid who’s played all of two weeks of pro ball (Heyward), one who has yet to hit AA (Schaefer), moving 73 different players out of position…all that’s left is to have Lew fill out the 2012 rotation with the Appy League ERA champs. :-) God, I love baseball.
TPaul, I’m screenprinting T-shirts with “Park Adjusted”, just can’t help myself. Maybe I’ll be crude and make the front say “10 Inches” (my apologies in advance to our distaff bloggers).
By brian
January 18, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
DOB - do think there will be any impact from the AROD debacle or Kenny Rogers dropping Boras?
If Tex wants to stay with the Braves and if Wrenn was willing to put a substantive offer, might Boras be more willing to listen the go automatically and without listening to free agency. That tactic did not work well with Arod who went back and signed with the Yankees.
By Michael Procton
January 18, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Cute, DOB…no need to mention that we not only traded “Value Highly Diminished by Drug Rehab”, but also a SECOND-ROUND pick who has been a good AVG/OBP guy everywhere he’s played professionally except for a very brief stint in a pitcher’s park. If we couldn’t get any more for a pair like that than a crappy, OLD prospect who more than likely won’t make the team or pitch more than 35 innings if he does, why trade them at all?
By scott
January 18, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
If Tex has moved from Dallas to Atlanta that’s a good sign that he might stay. When he was first traded here everyone was saying how he was still going to live in the Dallas area.
By N8
January 18, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
Coach
Javy Lopez was NOT the fulltime catcher for the “better part of 12 seasons”. He had a TOTAL of 32 AB’s in 92 and 93 combined, and left for Baltimore in 2004. Not sure how he could be considered the fulltime catcher with only 32 AB’s (unless they PH for him in his first AB of every game (wink!). He didn’t start catching fulltime until 1995 (he caught 80 games in the strike shortened 94 season - so I guess you could count that), which comes out to 9 seasons. 10 if you count 94. Then add in the 65 games he caught in the injury shortened year of 99.
And things were “different” then. Ted owned the team for much of that time.
I know there is no way of knowing how long LM will own the Braves, or how much money they (or any new ownership) will spend on player salaries, but common sense tells you that a high percentage of that will not be spent on a catcher nearing the age of 30 and having caught for near a decade.
It’s not that I don’t want to have him around, or suggest that he won’t be any good at that point, if healthy. I’m just not sure he will hold up. Lopez didn’t have many of the nagging feet injuries that McCann has already had early in his career.
Efrim
You are correct about Francoeur’s possible status in 2012. It seems that there will be (as there always is for everybod - except future HOF guys that you CAN’T let go of), somebody younger and cheaper coming along.
I was just stating that since Francoeur doesn’t play a position that has as much wear and tear on it as playing catcher does, it is more than likely that he would be in better physical shape come 2012.
I didn’t take into consideration all the young OF talent on the way.
McFann
As for looking that far ahead? I was commenting on Efrim predicting the 2012 lineup. I didn’t start the conversation.
As I’ve stated MANY times. McCann is one of my favorites. How could he not be?
Why is it being “pessimistic” to make a hypothetical (and fairly educated based on MOST catcher’s career lengths of being starters in MLB), guess on whether McCann will see the end of his contract (as the starter catching around 130 games per year)??
I wasn’t saying that I “hope” he’s gone, hell, I hope the guy plays his entire career here too. I also hoped that Glavine would play his entire career here as well. That didn’t happen. It would have been nice for many of our favorite players to play their entire careers in one place.
But think about it. It doesn’t happen that often. Period.
Is McCann gonna be considered “greater” than Andruw when it’s all said and done? How about Maddux? How about Glavine? Hell, how about JAVY? In the late 90’s how many Braves fans would have “gasped” at the though of Javy playing elsewhere?
Some of the greatest Braves go away at one point or another.
David Justice said it best when he got traded to Cleveland (and I’ll paraphrase here). He basically said that if Dale Murphy can get traded from Atlanta, then nobody should be offened if they are ever traded or not asked back.
Exactly.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Twelve season , nine seasons…whatever N8. The idea that McCann will be 28 in 2012 and no longer the Braves catcher is just sheer ignorance on your part.
Lets see if this link works.
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/18/585392.aspx
By N8
January 18, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
Coach
“The idea that McCann will be 28 in 2012 and no longer the Braves catcher is just sheer ignorance on your part.”
I suppose the next thing you’re gonna tell me is that McCann will still have “options” at age 28, huh?
:-)
I find it ironic, that you would use the words “sheer ignorance” upon anybody else, with all of the “options” discussions involving Thorman.
Fire away my man.
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
Scoots: LMAO…. good stuff.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
Yea sure N8 , five years from now you will still be bringing up Scott Thorman.
Find a new argument already. fire away Retard.
By N8
January 18, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
“Seriously, Francoeur could very well be somewhere else in 2012. McCann’s got a contract, Francoeur doesn’t. Hmm.”
Yeah. Cuz that’ll stop ANY team from moving somebody.
Didn’t Tex have a contract last year? How about Renteria? Oh THAT’S RIGHT, when guys aren’t 10/5 guys or don’t have “no trade clauses” in their contracts, they have ZERO choice in where they are moved.
As you would say, McFann……Sheeeeesh!
Coach
What’s more ignorant, me assuming that after 7-8 full seasons of catching in the big-leagues, that McCann might not be a full-time catcher anymore, or Efrim assuming that Heyward we’ll ever sniff the big-leagues?
By DAP
January 18, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
flange1 thanx man! ill try to hold off posting for a few minutes every now and then, and give you a chance!! :-)
coach a little premature on the demise of chipper’s career. why dont we wait until he actually shows signs of not being able to play any more before we conjecture too much.
By Ignorant N8
January 18, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
“Yea sure N8 , five years from now you will still be bringing up Scott Thorman.”
Hey a*******wipe, I’m not the one who went round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round (should I stop?), and round and round with DOB about options last year.
So even with your brain, you gotta see the irony (that is true irony, right DOB?), that you would refer to me as having “sheer ignorance”, right?
If not, than you are not only ignorant yourself, you are blind, and have NO sense of humor.
As for talking about Thorman in five more years? I dunno. Are you still gonna be arguing with DOB about it?
I can just hear it now. Thorman will be on his 4th organization in 5 seasons, and you’ll still be thinking to yourself….”WOW! I can’t believe NONE of these teams bothered sending him down……he STILL has options.”
You telling me to find a new argument, actually makes me wanna keep talking about this one.
Keep it coming, oh master of the option.
By Lew
January 18, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this
Scoots-I don’t know, Dude-that 10’s only a six in Colorado.
By Lew
January 18, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Or is that 16 in Colorado and infitesimal in San Diego?
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 18, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
N-hate , you are predictable as rain. Full of ignorance and self-loathing.
Why don’t you tell us again your revisionist history about the Dale Murphy trade.
The Braves didn’t trade him , Murphy did that himself.
By uga-brave
January 18, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this
N8,
a lot of verbage out of you tonight.
all this talk about francoeur not being here in 2012. who frickin cares.
if fancoeur is not here in 2012 it will be because his .770 ops over the last two years mutated into four years.
either way the braves pimp out francoeur a lot.
By N8
January 18, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
Coach (Thorman still has options in 2008)
For the record, you can check the Captain’s Log. I have NEVER once made a single comment before tonight about you being DEAD AZZ WRONG about Thorman’s options for the ENTIRE season last year. But since you decided to call me ignorant (and then in the next post called me a Retard), I believe I’ll be bringing it up more often.
Do some homework for me. Since 1980, find a list of how many guys that were catchers (that were offensive forces - no Tony Pena’s allowed), that caught around 130 games per year, and didn’t decline significantly (on the offense side) by the time they were closing in on 30. Then when you have that list, find out if they had high dollar contracts, if their teams were still interested in keeping them with their offensive stats eroding in front of their very eyes.
Mike Piazza anybody? Darren Daulton anybody? Benito Santiago anybody?
Looks to me that the only two guys that maintained through the 90’s were Javy and Pudge (and he’s had 100 RBI once and more than 30 HR once in his career), and the Braves didn’t keep Javy after his MONSTER season in 2003, why is that?
So Coach….you find me any good reason why I should be guaranteed in five years that McCann will not only be the Braves everyday catcher in 2012, but will be every bit as productive at age 28…….and I’ll find a new subject as you so asked.
I’ll be waiting.
Keep in mind, I’m still not being pessimistic or negative about this. I’m only being what I feel is realistic about a catcher’s career. The only reason I’m dwelling on it, is because you and McFann called me out on it for being “stupid” and using “sheer ignorance”.
I never knew that you and McFann were so much alike. You should date.
By N8
January 18, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Oh that’s right. Dale Murphy was the GM for the Braves then.
I guess I should send him a thank you card for making the Alexander/Smoltz trade and drafting Glavine, Avery, Justice and Gant, huh?
Because EVERY time a player suggests that his team trade him (like Smoltz allegedly did a couple of seasons ago), the GM’s listen? Right?
But since you seem to think that I’m making up Justice’s comment, or that the Braves weren’t looking out for themselves by moving him. Here is a cnnsi.com article from a while back.
cnnsi article
Besides. My point about Dale Murphy, had more to do with him being a fan favorite and being moved. McCann is obviously a fan favorite. You see the connection, or are you STILL trying so hard to figure out Thorman’s options that your brain is fried?
By N8
January 18, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this
uga-brave
“all this talk about francoeur not being here in 2012. who frickin cares”
While I appreciate your participation, it’s NOT Francoeur that is the main discussion, it’s McCann, and I don’t really care that much. I’m just out to annoy Coach now.
My focus has now shifted to Coach’s knowledge (or lack there of) of the “options” of ML players. I’m sure the next argument between he and DOB is right around the corner.
Which one of them do YOU think knows more about the system? But don’t take my word for it, I’m a often use stupidity and sheer ignorance as an excuse for MY lack of knowledge. :-)
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
DOB,
N8 has gone off the reservation. he has been mixing red bull and pinot.
seems like a job for BRAVEHEART. bring him back WILLIAM WALLACE the fate of N8 and the blog rests with you.
By N8: The sheerly ignorant retard
January 19, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
Coach
“The Braves didn’t trade him , Murphy did that himself.”
Didn’t McCann have JS put a clause in his contract that basically gave the Braves an “out” at the end of it, if he’s not as productive as he currently is? I remember being taken back by his thinking of the team above his pay-day, since DOB made some comment that McCann said that he didn’t want to hamper the Braves with his contract if he still wasn’t worth it.
Seems as though McCann has already given the Braves permission to “move on” if he ever is as mediocre as Murphy was at the end of his career.
You really think that Murphy wasn’t trying to win a title, while allowing the Braves to move on to the younger, cheaper player? And that Cox (as the GM) hadn’t already thought of it before Murphy brought it up?
If that’s the case, I’m not so sure that Cox is capable of tying his own shoes, much less being a ML Manager or GM.
Go ahead Robert…I set you up on that one. You’re welcome.
THIS JUST IN!!!
Willie Aybar is out of options. I think the Braves should trade him. Sorry if some of you think it’s retarded. That’s just how I am.
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
N8,
I am with you on gettin on coach.
everybody here puts a face to a moniker.
for me coach is, DOB you will love this, VIC MORREAU from the BAD NEWS BEARS. the coach of the yankees
sorry coach i see you walking around in coaching shorts berating everybody.
By Jeff R
January 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
Of course, the Braves prefer playing Escobar at short, but he can swing over to third, when, inevitably, Chipper’s down with some injury (hopefully, nothing serious or prolonged). Gives Cox a chance to see Lillibridge at short, where he, too, is a standout. Just makes sense to get Lillibridge’s speed into the line up. Escobar can be a third baseman longer term. Worth some thought.
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
TRIVIA QUESTION N8,
WHO Whas one of the pitchers the braves traded for THE MURPH.
national league pitcher ?
By N8
January 19, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this
uga-brave
Good call on the Bad News Bears reference. I was thinking more like Billy Bob from “Bad Santa”.
As for me? Forrest Gump about sums it up for us retards.
Since I just linked an article about the trade, and had done some other searching on it, I recall that Tommy Greene was the player to be named, that was sent to the Phillies later on.
Jeff Parrett and Jim Vatcher (along with somebody who I can’t remember) came back our way.
Coach
Since you said I was “predictable as rain”, could you let me know when I’m gonna get some up here in the upper plains? My lawn’s gone to sh!t the last two summers.
I’d love to hear your theory on when it may rain again, or what I might say next.
Please……do tell, oh master of the universe.
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
N8,
You are right jeff parrett, i wonder what ever became of those guys.
i was there the night when MURPH came home as a phiily. 1991, in fulton county stadium. sat there and watched 25,000 fans give him a standing oooohh.
dale murphy was the the orginal guy that had power to right center.
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
N8,
You are right jeff parrett, i wonder what ever became of those guys.
i was there the night when MURPH came home as a phiily. 1991, in fulton county stadium. sat there and watched 25,000 fans give him a standing oooohh.
dale murphy was the the orginal guy that had power to right center.
By CC Rider
January 19, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
DOB, You’ve probably gone on the dating game since you haven’t posted since 6:00 pm. I hope the movie was good. I am in a predicting mood today and I Have 2 more before the “good Night” takes me. No.1 Texiera will resign with the Braves. Why, you ask? 1. Texiera is a ballplayer not a media darling, he wants to be part of a team that can compete year after year not front page news on the New York Post or the Boston Globe. He can see the young players we have and the ones that are coming. Yankees getting old, Mets Getting Old, Boston= they will smother you with love when your great, drive you out of town (Renteria) when you are mortal. He wants a place where he can compete and a place to raise a family out of the constant glare of the press. 2. Personal ties: Wife from Dahlonega and Graduated from Georgia Tech 3. The Braves want to make him the successor to Chipper when Chipper retires(hopefully at least 4 more years from now), a player that leads by example. 4. The Braves will give him a 7 year $150 million contract that includes a $10 million dollar bonus (Like they did for Smoltz and Hudson), because Liberty knows to make the francise more valuable you have to compete and will raise payroll. Texiera,Francoeur,McCann,Escobar,Schafer,Lillibridge,Heyward,Chipper and his eventual replacement(Maybe K.Johnson, Gilmore) along with Hudson, Jurjjens, Reyes, Rohrborough, Hanson Locke, Teheran will put the Braves back into competing for a spot in the playoffs and getting in more often than not for the next 8 years. My second prediction is from personal observation, Jason Heyward will eclipse all the other great young players and lead the team to new heights. Jason played at Henry County School 3 miles form my home. I watched him play some and he was a man among boys, patient beyond his years. He has a quiet assurance that you only see in players that are sure of their abilites and thus do not feel the same kind of pressure to perform as less confident players. People have compared him to Fred McGriff and that is a reasonable comparsion as a hitter, but he is a far better athlete than McGriff was. If my first predition comes true and Texiera resigns, you will see in about 3 years the best outfield in baseball.
By N8
January 19, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
I was just doing some “digging” around on the baseball reference website.
Came across some interesting tidbits of info.
I noticed that Chipper Jones was drafted (and signed) on June 4th 1990. I thought that was odd in today’s world, so I dug around. MOST of the top players from 85-92 or so, almost always signed immediately following the draft.
Not so much these days anymore.
Second, if you look up a player on their sight and scroll all the way to the bottom of the “main” page, it will list all transactions a player was part of (that’s where it has the drafted and signed info), and off to the lower right, it lists a players salary for each season and their “total” earnings to date (or for their career if they’re retired).
Randy Johnson has made about 152 million dollars playing baseball and has made 556 starts. When it’s all said and done, he has made around 270K per start over his career. Not a bad “day’s” work.
Barry Bonds has made 188 million in his career (so far), and of course has 762 HR. That comes out to 246K for each HR he’s hit.
Mike Hampton? He’s made 72 million (not all paid by the Braves of course), since coming to Atlanta. How many starts has he made?……72 (do the math). Yikes.
Dale Murphy made 16 million dollars in his ENTIRE career. Or about 2 million less than what Andruw will make in EACH of the next two seasons with the Dodgers. Unreal.
In the 11 years Maddux was a Brave, he made 102 million dollars, made 363 starts (280K per start), and collected 194 wins (525K per victory).
Carlos Silva just signed a 4 year 48 million dollar deal and in his previous 4 years has gone 47 and 45. So if that trend continues (about 12 wins per year), he will cost around 1 million per victory. That is just WRONG. Anyhow. I always think it’s fun to calculate stats in accordance to salary, in order to figure out an “hourly wage” for these guys. Crazy.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
January 19, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
Tommy Greene was a great guy… Too bad his arm gave out. Great things were expected of him.
Of all the current AAA Braves leaving the Rivah City, I think I shall miss Lillibridge the most. What a great little ball player he is going to be. If you liked Brett Butler, you’re going to love this guy.
I don’t see him sitting on the bench for any team. The Braves will play him or trade him but I don’t expect to see him in Richmond again once he goes up.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this
Saw “There Will Be Blood” tonight. If Daniel Day-Lewis doesn’t win the Academy Award for Best Actor, then they should just abolish the awards. Tremendous performance. Great movie, like Citizen Kane, but about an oil man. Especially felt like Citizen Kane in the last half-hour.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
uga-brave: Absolutely perfect casting, I will henceforward think of our Coach as Vic Morrow’s Yankees coach character in Bad News Bears.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this
Steamboat, Infante is the backup 3B. And if he starts season on DL, I’d imagine it’ll be Prado as backup for a couple weeks.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
TennPaul, Soriano will likely sign in the next couple weeks (they’ll just meet halfway between Braves offer and his asking price, the two figures that were swapped), and the non-arb guys are all signed in the first couple weeks of camp.
No, haven’t heard anything new about Francoeur, but haven’t asked in a few weeks, either. It’d probably happen at camp if it’s gonna happen this year.
By Bryan
January 19, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this
All i can sat about the murphy trade is that i cried … i cried hard… (i was a kids … i loved dale murphy and i loved the braves … )
By jon712
January 19, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
One of the best moments after Murphy was traded was when Glavine was ordered to hit Dale after a Brave had been hit by a pitch.
Tommy’s eephus pitches made Stu Miller look like Nolan Ryan.
By Roman Gal
January 19, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this
CC Rider, small world eh? I agree…Heyward= man among boys.
I would’ve liked him better if he hadn’t gone to a rival school, though. BTW, Have you seen Jake Davies pitch? I have heard he is way better than Kyle was.
By Roman Gal
January 19, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this
N8, that is some pretty interesting stuff ya got there.
It reminds me of a line in the dumbest movie ever:
Very nice…How much?
I dunno why, but it makes me laugh.
By CC Rider
January 19, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this
Roman Gal, I saw little bro Davies pitch 1 inning for ELCA. A different pitcher than older brother, lefty, good breaking ball. Think the Braves would dip into the same well twice?
By CC Rider
January 19, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this
Roman Gal, I saw little bro Davies pitch 1 inning for ELCA. A different pitcher than older brother, lefty, good breaking ball. Think the Braves would dip into the same well twice?
By CharlieAlphaBravo
January 19, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one that gets cranky in the off-season. Maybe in March we can stop hurling insults at one another and actually talk some baseball…… But probably not…
By uga-brave
January 19, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this
DOB,
well everbody has their masks, but i believe the coach is the the guy walking around wearing those tight BIKE coaching shorts.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 19, 2008 5:10 AM | Link to this
uga-brave , your close but no cookie. I favor Walter Matthau , always wore a full uniform when coaching (just like Cox , spikes and all).
The only guys I ever berated were the umps and on occasion had a few choice words for the parents who couldn’t keep it G-rated in front of the kids during a game.
For those like N8 who can’t get it right , Dale Murphy was the one who requested to be traded. He knew the Braves were trying to build a young team and felt that as long as he was playing full time , youngsters like David Justice would not get the necessary playing time. Dale was correct in this regard as David Justice moved from 1B to RF after Murphy was traded and had a breakout season.
The Braves and especially Ted Turner never wanted to trade Dale Murphy. They did however have so much respect for Murphy that they honored his wishes and traded him to Philadelphia. And that dear Braves fans , is what really transpired.
The irony is , in 1991 we witnessed one of the greatest World Series in history. I have always wondered , if Dale had stayed for just one more season , if his presence would have affected a different outcome for the Braves in the 1991 series.
By Braves Fan 79
January 19, 2008 5:24 AM | Link to this
Thank GOD we got rid of woodcrap…damn i hated that guy since they chose him over Escobar in spring training! Pete Orrs pretty much the same but we got the same birthday so i gotta like the guy…haha..
Love the work DOB…amazing how dedicated you are at your job.
By tha way..i think us not relying on that hot CF prospect and going out trading for the A’s cf was a mistake comparable to us choosing woodcrap and orr/wilson on the bench last year over Escobar.
I would of much rather seen us pay that Lefty Holmes or whatever the 3 million he wanted! And relied on the rookie.
By chris
January 19, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
Coach: Dale Murphy will always be one of my favorites, but it’s hard to see where he would have helped the team in any capacity in ‘91.
By Jeff R
January 19, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Murph was well done by ‘91. His skills declined fairly rapidly for a guy in his early to mid 30s. Hey, he had a nice run.
Chipper…four more years at third? The team was lucky to get 130 games out of him in 2007. Given his problem with nagging injuries, no lock that he’ll play even that many this season. I think “Post Chipper” begins in 2009. They need to start to position for the future. Chipper is undeniably super when healthy, but he’s not healthy enough and it may only get worse.
By Atown
January 19, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
DOB, Cash’s version of “Further On Up the Road” is amazing, as are all his American Recordings. I hear another posthumous album is planned.
It’s certainly has been an eventful off season. Thanks for keeping us up to date. We’re inside a month till pitchers and catchers!
By N8
January 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Coach
“For those like N8 who can’t get it right , Dale Murphy was the one who requested to be traded.”
JHC Coach! Take the f’n blinders off your eyes. I FRICKIN GET IT, I’VE ALWAYS GOTTEN IT!!!
Dale Murphy ASKED to be traded and the Braves granted that wish. They “didn’t want to do it”. Just the same as they “didn’t want” to trade Kevin Millwood.
Just the same as they “wanted” to bring Glavine back last year, and “didn’t want” to let Glavine leave in the first place.
As for you question about the 91 WS with Murph on the roster? Well for one, they had so much respect for Murphy that they would NOT have made him ride the pine. Which means that Justice would have remained at 1B, with Murph in RF.
Do you know what that means? Yup. No Sid Bream. You’re dead WRONG if you think that NOT having Bream on that roster doesn’t change things. That team was built on defense, pitching and timely hitting.
The team was better defensively with Bream at 1B, and Justice in RF. As for the timely hitting? Murphy hadn’t had too much of that in his last year or so with the Braves.
I too feel very BAD for Murphy since his was, is and ALWAYS will be my favorite Brave. My son has the framed Dale Murphy Power Alley poster (with him in the powder blues with the glowing bat like a light saber from Star Wars) hanging in his room.
It’s a shame that they finally make the WS the very next season after they move him. But if you think the two aren’t DIRECTLY related, you’re also wrong. But it is a shame the closest he came to sniffing the WS was the sweep at the hands of the Cardinals in 1982.
But feel free to explain to me in detail WHAT I DON’T GET!!!!!!
I’m still waiting for your list of catchers that produce BIG offensive numbers while nearing the age of 30.
You talk a big game, you call people names when you’re backed against the wall. Hell you even argue with the blog-master on something that you are COMPLETELY in the wrong over.
Why on earth should I take a WORD you have to say seriously?
Back up what you have to say with some REAL evidence and thought process. People may not agree with me (I’m guessing not many agree with me on the McCann subject), but NOBODY can accuse me of not thinking and doing some homework before I speak (type) my thoughts.
You on the other hand……
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Atown, so right about Cash’s version. In fact, that’s what led me to put the lyrics up — I was listening to that Cash album A Hundred Highways (last in the American Recordings series) in my office, the one with Further On Up The Road and Like the 309 and Help Me. Powerful, wrenching stuff, you can almost hear the life leaving him in those songs, the last he recorded before he died.
By McFann
January 19, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Boy, hows come all the juicy arguments happen while I’m in bed? Do you guys do that purpose? I bet you do.
Anyway, not to beat a dying horse, but on the subject of the clause of whatever at the end of McCann’s contract:
Showing a sense of unselfishness, McCann requested that the contract be written in a manner that the Braves have the chance to make 2012 an option year. This would be realized if he is unable to attain a certain level of points that have been assigned for his escalator totals.
I wish I could get the darn link to work, but this cut-and-paste thing is really fun.
Neight, you mentioned McCann’s foot problems. Well, I know when that started—May 20, 2006. I bet that sort of thing didn’t happen to Javy when he was a young player.
Oh, and don’t tell me—Javy wasn’t overweight!! Sheesh.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Can’t believe how folks in Atlanta see a potential inch or three of snow as some sort of blizzard. Man, you folks need to live out in the Midwest for one winter.
My man Don just told me he’s gonna probably close his Ella Guru store this afternoon if the snow starts to stick. I told him I was gonna go buy 10 CDs today and that I guess I’d just have to go to Best Buy … or Criminal Records in Little Five.
But seriously, I’m still going to the international motorcycle show today at the World Congress Center. You think Braves FanFest was big, well this thing’s in all three buildings there (FanFest was only in the smallest of the three buildings).
But this snow might curtail us going to see Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings tonight at Variety Playhouse. Might be slick driving out by then, after the temp drops.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Coach, I love that you wore the full uni (including spikes) when coaching. That’s outstanding. Bobby (and Leyland) would approve. They’re the only two managers left in the majors who still wear the spikes to manage. Love those crusty old guys.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 19, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Greetings denizens,
I’m with 10Paul. Let’s allow a little time before we lose any sleep about the “logjam” in the middle infield and Lillibridge’s putative role there.
One thing we fans may lose track of is the amazing way the Braves have stayed in contention year after year with a roster that has changed dramatically over time.
Think about this: If I have this right, since the run began in 1991, only seven players have been under contract with the big club for more than 5 straight seasons:
They are: Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux (no surprise); Chipper, Andruw and Javy. And (drum roll, please) — Mike Hampton, whether he pitches or not in 2008.
I can fire up the crystal ball and predict that KJ could produce enough offense to be a successful corner infielder if Tex isn’t re-signed or when Chipper hangs em up. He has professional hitter written all over him, and like Chipper, he’s a versatile defender who works hard at the other parts of the game.
I can see KJ, Yunel and Lillibridge in Braves unis for a long time. But I’m not counting on it and I’m not worrying about it now.
By Roman Gal
January 19, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
CC Rider, I doubt it.
By TennesseePaul
January 19, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
he has been mixing red bull and pinot.
How is this? Is it any good?
By TennesseePaul
January 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB: Citizen Cane? Please. PT wishes. It wasn’t a bad movie, but it has nothing on No Country for Old Men much less Citizen Cane.
Daniel Day was good. But that’s a given.
By nOLIE
January 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Chipper…four more years at third? The team was lucky to get 130 games out of him in 2007. Given his problem with nagging injuries, no lock that he’ll play even that many this season. I think “Post Chipper” begins in 2009. They need to start to position for the future. Chipper is undeniably super when healthy, but he’s not healthy enough and it may only get worse.JeffR
much of the time that Chipper missed last season was due to that freak collision at third. other than that he didn’t miss all that much time,only a few players on the team played significantly more than he did.
By TennesseePaul
January 19, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
much of the time that Chipper missed last season was due to that freak collision at third.
The year before he had that deal over at 3B in San Fran… The guy has had some bad luck the past few years in random incidents. If he can go the full season without running into another one of those I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play in 150 games… I look forward to him coming out there and playing hard proving he deserved the Silver Slugger for 3B, the Gold Glove for 3B and the NL MVP.
By Michael Procton
January 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
I enjoyed the flap when Francona wasn’t even WEARING his uniform last year.
By Lew
January 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-Nothing with Red Bull added could possibly be any good. That stuff is vile.
To all worried about Chipper’s “nagging” injuries. Do y’all realize that in 06 he missed time wrenching knee and ankle on a wet, terribly maintained field in San Francisco and that in 07 he tripped over a third baseman while going to third? These are NOT nagging injuries. They are nothing but circumstantial occurences that could happen to anyone. They have nothing whatsoever to do with his hamstring or toe problems (all in the past). He only missed 3 or 4 games from an oblique strain and obviously played in pain during parts of the season-like most everyone else. If he can avoid infielders and wet fields, he should do just fine with the playing time.
By Steve McP
January 19, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
The classic film’s title is Citizen Kane, not Cane.
By TennesseePaul
January 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Steve McP: You’re right. And There will be Blood has nothing on that film either.
By N8
January 19, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
McFann
“Oh, and don’t tell me—Javy wasn’t overweight!!”
Javy was “overweight”, but it more than likely was from some form of performance enhancement. Or is it just coincidence that his final season in Atlanta (you know - the monster one), he looked like frickin’ Rambo, and now upon his return, DOB has stated that he has (ahem) slimmed down a little bit.
Coach
I did some homework for you, since you have no apparent interest in backing up your point.
3 Catchers have “maintained” their offensive prowess while closing in on their 30’s.
Javy Lopez. I’ve already stated that I think he was doing “something extra” to enhance his game.
Pudge Rodriquez, whose name has repeatedly surfaced when Canseco opens his gush.
Finally. Jorge Posada. He’s actually been the most consistent of all of them, well into his 30’s. At first I figured he must be DH’ing a lot. Nope, hardly at all over his career.
Of course he is a Yankee, and has been teammates with Giambi, Clemens and Andy Pettitte. Come to your own conclusions. It’s not that difficult.
This will be the last I discuss any of this, unless you want to spew some more N-hate my way with your insults and name calling. Then I will gladly call you out for incorrect views.
Have a nice day. :-)
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 19, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
i love cash’s “a hundred highways” album. the first time i put it in i cried as i listened to “help me” and chills went up my spine when “god’s gonna cut you down” came on.
i’m also really enjoying the Drive-By Truckers new cd. i’ve never listened to them before, ever, so this is my first listen, and it gets better with each listen. “that man i shot” sounds like an afghan whigs song to me.
also loving Dinosaur Jr’s “beyond,” which i finally got a couple weeks ago. if i had it a month ago, it would’ve been on my top 10 cds of the year, probably around 5-7 or so.
By Ricardo
January 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
DOB (or anyone that would know):
Can you pls shed some light on how the MLB pension system works? I’m curious how long a player needs to play to qualify, how long they must wait to get their benefits and what kind of money the system provides.
Thanks.
By Roman Gal
January 19, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Roger Federer is a beast.
By Roman Gal
January 19, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Ricardo
MLB
Year pension plan began: 1947
The first pro sport to set up a pension, baseball originally offered up to $100 a month, depending on the number of years played, at a time when no other league offered a pension. Still considered the most generous of the four major sports, some athletes were earning six-figure pensions as far back as the 1980s. Cal Ripken Jr.’s expected pension when he reaches 62 will be $160,000 annually for 21 seasons of play.
An agreement in 1968 set the requirements to receive a pension after five years. But the 1981 strike reduced that time frame to 43 days for a full pension and just one day for full medical benefits. But this change only impacted athletes who played after 1980, and resulted in a class-action lawsuit.
After former Negro League players were provided with pensions in 1997, MLB was sued by more than 1,000 players for discrimination, since they were denied similar benefits under the 1981 pension plan. But this suit was dismissed, and another pension fund was set up in May 2004 to cover Negro League players still lacking pensions after the 1997 program.
By BossLady
January 19, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal. it seems that the Negro League will never, ever benefit with the MLB profits. That is a M’fkg shame…….
By Yars
January 19, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
DOB….what is your take on Johnny Cash cover of Depeche Mode’s Personal Jesus & Nine Inch Nail’s Hurt? My all time favorite cover song is Power Station’s cover of the T-Rex song, Get It On.
By BossLady
January 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
DOB, you must have an advanced sound system to enjoy all the music that you profile. My husband has a surround sound that appears to come from the floors and refrigerator, I mean everywhere. It is not loud it is smooth and a constant whereever you go in here. He does not blog, but, I know he can swap artists and cds with you all day. My dogs love all this music and when it’s off they misbehave and seem sullen. If you are enjoying music I hope you have a “Sweet Surround Sound” and your nice lady is as patient with you as I am with my husband. It takes a lot when music is always in your ear and in your body and all over all the time continuously.
By Atown
January 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Yars,
I’m not sure about Depeche Mode’s version, but Cash version vs. Marilyn Manson’s is night and day different in meaning, tone, etc for obvious reasons. Cash’s genius was his ability to pick the perfect covers, in addition to his own songs.
By Daybed Wagmmoe
January 19, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
DOB - have you ever been approached by the Braves about doing a regular spot on the pre-game radio shows? I think it’d be great to hear a writer’s two cents about the team along with chip caray and mark lemke. it’d be a welcome addition to the show and seems like it would provide some good insight, etc. plus you and chip could talk about good music on the show…i always hear about chip making comments about music during games and on the wrap-up shows.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 19, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
N8 , I can come up with a list of more than a dozen catcher who had 80 RBI 20 HR seasons beyond the age of thirty right off the top of my head.
I’m even not going to bother since you obviously would argue that 20 Hr’s and 80 RBI from a catcher doesn’t constitute BIG NUMBERS , as you put it.
Your argument isn’t even worth my time.
By Lew
January 19, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
BossLady-Actually, Surround Sound is good for movies, but when you break up your speaker signal five ways, it makes the speakers more innefficient and you get a much higher level of Total Harmonic Distortian (THD) and get much more extraneous noise in your music. The sound is not as clear.
By Lew
January 19, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Damn-I can’t spell today. I should amend that somewhat, BossLady. If you listen to a lot of hip hop or other music with a super dominant bass line and really like sub woofers, then THD makes no difference, whatsoever. The kind of bass that shakes automotive devices on the highway is counter productive to clear, separated sound.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Just back from the big bike show at the world congress center. cool stuff. some amazing choppers and vintage bikes down there, including a beautifully restored Vincent Black Shadow….
Daybed, it’d be difficult to do more than a few minutes on the pregame show without it interfering with what I have to do before the game — work the clubhouse, talk to guys around the batting cage, then get upstairs and write my notebook before the game starts, or by the first or second inning at latest.
They do that show out in the CF plaza at home, and up in the booth on the road.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Daybed, just saw your post about Truckers CD; where’d you find an advance copy? I love it, man. Great CD. And the Dinosaur Jr album from this past year sounds like they did so many years ago. Terrific.
By DAP
January 19, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
Cash’s versions of personal jesus and hurt are both better than the originals in my opinion. and manson’s personal jesus isnt even worth listening to. but, i also, i know NIN wrote hurt, but cash is the one who does it right. no comparison. hurt is actually one of my very favorite cash songs, and the video is awesome to. it makes me short of breath when i watch and/or listen to it, that how powerful it is.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, don’t know what your deal is about There Will Be Blood, but can someone disagree with you without you jumping in and trying to act as though your opinion is the only one that matters regarding the movie? I mean, seriously. We know you think it was “not a bad movie.” Fine, bully for you. Glad you thought it was “not a bad movie.”
Personally, I thought it was a stunning, epic movie. Never once did I saw it was better than No Country, nor did I say it was as good or better than Citizen Kane (and it was very late last night when I typed Cane. My bad).
I merely said it was like Citizen Kane, meaning a sweeping, sprawling story covering decades that chronicled the rise from nothing to tremendous riches for an eccentric, bullying, brilliant but disturbed man, in this case an oil baron instead of a newspaper magnate. Sorry you disagree with that, too.
Hey, you think it was not bad, I think it was terrific. Agree to disagree. No problem. Just don’t understand why you’re so argumentative about that particular movie.
Personally, I think it and No Country For Old Men are two of my favorite five movies in several years. Both sensational movies, and as long as one of them gets the Oscar, justic will be served.
I also loved 3:10 to Yuma, Eastern Promises, Juno, Michael Clayton, Into The Wild and Atonement. Good year for great movies.
By David O'Brien
January 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
By the way, There Will Be Blood also reminded me a lot of Giant.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 19, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
As for Brian McCann , barring a career ending injury. I fully expect that he will be catching well into his early thirties.
His current contract runs through 2012 with a team option for 2013 , basically locking McCann up through the age of 29.
Whether or not he will be catching and playing for the Braves after that is pure speculation and ya’ll can ask N8 about that.
By chris
January 19, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you have any idea who the Braves might be going after to fortify the bullpen?
Thanks,
Chris from MD
By Yars
January 19, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
DAP…..have you heard depeche Mode’s version of Personal Jesus? They are the band that wrote the song. It’s from their album, Violator. It was then covered by Marilyn Manson, & then Johnny Cash, just in case you may have thought Manson wrote it. You’d be surprised how many people still actually believe that it’s a Marilyn Manson original.
By Braveheart
January 19, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
i’m not a hockey fan but i’m guessing giving up 10 goals ain’t good. i’m thinking glavine might have about a handful of those kinds of starts this year but be fine otherwise. i’m also guessing a $3500 bar tab for a teen ain’t cool either.
By McFann
January 19, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
As for Brian McCann , barring a career ending injury. I fully expect that he will be catching well into his early thirties.
Please, don’t type that NASTEY phrase, “career ending injury”!! I have nightmares about that all the time!!
By doc
January 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
dob also saw blood last night, if at tara sorry to have missed you. quite a movie with a powerful ending. day-lewis kinda filled up the screen, no? he was quite a singular force in that one whereas i felt the whole of the parts were as important in country.
funny, how my flight got cancelled to newark at 1:40 because of “conditions”. man, they choked it at the airport or are not really a first rate airport at this point even if they have soooo many go through it every day. shameful performance wednesday when folks were on the ground for five hours because “the storm hit 3 hours before we thought it would and we werent prepared for it”. if that isnt some spin or just straight old B S. now got to get up at 5 this am to make sure they dont cancel me if the roads are bad to catch a flight at 7:10. it is what it is. feel for you david old boy as you have to put up with it on a regular basis and i dont.
By Oregon_Braves
January 19, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
No question that Depeche Mode’s original (or various remixes) of Personal Jesus is better than any of the covers. The bass line is what drives the song and the cover versions don’t have it. I do agree with DAP that Cash’s video for Hurt makes the song resonate that much more, even though I did like the live NIN video for theirs.
Dave - Glad to see you mention Into the Wild. Hadn’t read that you liked that one. Great portrayal by Emile Hirsch. Reminded me of Grizzly Man, the doc on Timothy Treadwell from a couple of years back. If you haven’t caught that one (and don’t bother with the cut version they show on Discovery every now and then), I recommend it most highly. Treadwell was one cra-zy ba$tard.
By DAP
January 19, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Yars yeah, i know that depeche mode wrote personal jesus, but the song wasnt worth listening to until cash covered it. same way with hurt.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 19, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
OK , did my homework. Time to dole out the pain and set the record straight.
Among catchers who um , “MAINTAINED THEIR OFFENSIVE GAME” well into their thirties . I list the following , starting with the Hall of Fame.
Bill Dickey , Roy Campanella , Yogi Berra , Carleton Fisk , Gary Carter and Johnny Bench , all in the Hall of Fame.
The rest of the best : Ivan Rodriguez , Jorge Posada , Mike Piazza , Terry Steinbach , Javy Lopez , Jason Varitek , Darren Daulton , Bengie Molina , Mickey Tettleton and Benito Santiago.
Twelve of those sixteen catchers played for more than a decade with the same team.
I found twenty catchers who experienced a 20 HR 80 RBI season after the age of thirty.
Even more stunning and surprising , even to me. There are ten catchers who had a 30 HR 100 RBI season after the age of thirty.
They are : Walker Cooper in 1947 , Roy Campanella in 1953 , Yogi Berra in 1956 , Gary Carter and Carleton Fisk in 1985 , Mickey Tettleton in 1993 , Terry Steinbach in 1996 , Mike Piazza in 1999 and 2000. And last but not least , Jorge Posada and Javy Lopez in 2003.
Class dismissed !
By DAP
January 19, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
by the way, just my opinion on those songs… i dont want to tick off anyone who loves the originals. different strokes, right?
By ncgary
January 19, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
i saw where blanton signed this year avoiding arb but didnt see the amount , anyone else see how much he got??
By TennesseePaul
January 19, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
Wow. Sensitive on the matter I see. I never said it was a bad movie. Not once. Just don’t think it’s the best movie of 2007. I think, if you put another actor in Daniel Day’s place and the actor does an adequate job, no one would think the movie was “epic”. Daniel Day made that film. Otherwise it’s just a good film. Which was always my point.
I think it and No Country For Old Men are two of my favorite five movies in several years. Both sensational movies, and as long as one of them gets the Oscar, justice will be served.
I’d agree with this whole heartedly. Though I don’t know the other 3 films in your top five, or if they were released this year. But These two were certainly top notch for the past year. I just think No Country for Old Men was the better movie. I don’t know that it had a “best actor” involved. Though, honestly, if Tommy Lee Jones won for that film I wouldn’t be terribly upset. He was great, but Daniel Day deserves it for this year.
Now, another good one from 2007 is Ratatouille. But that’s an entirely different type of film and does not merit a “Best Picture” or whatever they call it.
By N8
January 19, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
Coach
Go back and read the original post. I said SINCE 1980. And not to get “nit-picky” on you or anything, but
Not anywhere did I state I was looking for catchers that hit 20 HR and had 80 RBI. What I said was (and you quoted me), find guys that “maintained their offensive prowess”.
Mike Piazza might be the only guy on that list. What do you know? A sure fire HOFr is on that list? Hmmmm. Quite possibly the greatest hitting catcher of all time, happens to be the exception to the rule? Imagine that.
I’m not sure I’ll concede that “class is dismissed”. But you found some guys I wasn’t thinking of, like Tettleton.
But again, pretty much everybody you have on that list (even the guys before 1980) are already in, or gonna be in the HOF.
Are you ready to put McCann in that category?
The other side of my argument that I haven’t even touched on, is the Atlanta Braves track record with such players. Obviously they locked up McCann at a young age, which shows you what they think of him NOW (not to mention the way the deal is backloaded saves them money in his arbitration years), but at the end of that deal when he’s making 12 and 13 million, what makes you think they won’t move on to a younger, cheaper option?
I’m not gonna sit here and argue with any of you on whether the Braves are gonna trade Brian McCann in 2012 (or before then). That would be silly.
I simply made a comment that I didn’t think it was LIKELY that he’s still be here, and if he is, he more than likely won’t be as productive as he is RIGHT NOW.
You and McFann are the ones who threw the words “stupidity”, “sheer ignorance” and “retard” around. Which are the ONLY 3 reasons that I’m even still arguing, even though I said I was done last night.
But if you want to go on the record RIGHT NOW and say that you think that McCann will be a HOF catcher before it’s all said and done, and that the Braves are gonna want to pay 12 or 13 million to a possibly worn down 29 year old catcher (because god knows, they won’t have ANY other option by then), go ahead.
As for adding Darren Daulton in there? The guy didn’t become a full-time ML catcher until he was 27, and if you think THAT GUY was not on steroids, you’re fooling yourself. Come on dude.
Benito Santiago? Come on man. The guy had 2….count em’ TWO!! seasons EVER with more than 80 RBI. The second of those seasons he had 30 HR to go with them while playing for the Phillies in 96. The NEXT highest HR total? It was 18, back in 1987, when he was 22.
You know what else MOST of those guys had/have on McCann? They could also play pretty kick-azz defense. While McCann has had great reviews from Smoltz, Bobby and other Braves players about his game-calling skills (can’t argue there), his overall defensive skills are average AT BEST.
He was signed to his contract because he calls a good game, and because the dude can RAKE! Period. If he ever looses the ability to rake, (like he did while being injured last year - something not to uncommon for catchers), he will essentially become Johnny Estrada (you know….the guy we GOT RID OF to make room for him).
Can I get a hall pass? I think I need to go sh!t myself.
Either way. I’m man enough to say nice job on the homework. I didn’t think you had it in you. Besides. I thought I wasn’t worth the argument? LOL!
I always enjoy arguing with you. I just don’t appreciate the name calling. I expect it from newbies and Muts trolls. Not you.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 19, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
DOB, yeah, i guess you’ve got a lot to do before the game starts. nevermind.
i thought the DBT album was released this past tuesday; not so? my brother got a copy from someone at work and i got the copy from him. he works as patterson hood’s personal secretary. naw, just kidding.
i saw “3:10 to Yuma” for the first time today. damn, what a great movie. loved it. did you see “the assassination of jesse james by the coward robert ford”? any good? looking forward to seeing “there will be blood” when it comes to athens. by the way, have you seen the youtube video of the kid saying “blood” again and again? search “blood” on youtube and it’ll be the first thing you see. hilarious.
By N8
January 20, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
Coach
“I found twenty catchers who experienced a 20 HR 80 RBI season after the age of thirty.”
Brady Anderson hit 50 HR “once” too. When I said “maintain” I didn’t mean, have one more good year in the sun.
I meant maintain. As in continue to have years like they did when they were younger.
Don’t mean to keep beating the dead horse. Just forgot to comment on that line, in my last post.
I’m done now.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 20, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
N8 , you should dig through all those stats like I did.
McCann has yet to scratch his potential. Brian’s peak years should be between the ages of 28 to 32.
I’ll give you the scouting report on Brian McCann , I don’t think you have read it yet.
Assets : A powerful young catcher who will only get stronger, McCann is also sound defensively, boasting a quality arm.
Flaws : Like most catchers, he’s slow around the bases. He’s also still got some work to do on his footwork behind the plate.
Career potential : A good offensive No. 1 catcher.
I think you are basing your gripes on last season alone and not seeing why the Braves invested a six year 26.8 million dollar contract in McCann.
Injury is part of the game and catchers are more susceptible than most due to the beating they take behind the plate.
But , if you compare where Brian is right now to all the other catchers I listed , his career potential is huge.
McCann already has two all-star games under his belt and a silver slugger. I suspect that in about five years , we are all going to be raving over our superstar catcher.
I’m sorry about the name calling , I just don’t think your seeing what the rest of us are.
By rich brave
January 20, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Dave and the bloggers(A new rock-band??) remind me of the James-Younger gang when they’re holed up in McCorkindale’s barn, sniping at one another with cabin fever, burning up waiting for——the next Atlanta move! Soriano’s the last arb guy and there’s five men now out of options. Ring, Bennett, Boyer, Pena and ???? Who? Can’t remember the last one. In a situation like this, what does an organization normally do with them??
By uga-brave
January 20, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
coach,
i think mccaann will be good for a long time but i dont think he will ever be a great defensive catcher.
his footwork behind the plate is lousy and at times looks lazy. that being said all of his defensive liabilities should be offset by his offensive prowess. plus he seems like he is a class act.
who would of thought 4 years ago it would of been mccaan and not salty.
By N8
January 20, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
I tell you Coach, I was more so basing my opinion, on how the Braves operate, rather than McCann himself. Catchers in general just don’t maintain over the long haul, and even if they do, don’t do it in one place.
I know you found many guys who DID stay in one place for 10 years or more, but even you have to see that that was then, this is now.
Tell me the odds on us letting a guy like Rafael Furcal “walk” if it was the 80’s or early 90’s, and that comment has NOTHING to do with ownership or our payroll situation. Just how baseball is in general in today’s world.
Let me go on the record (since I’ve made a couple of assumptions on the record in the last couple of days), in saying that I would love NOTHING MORE than for Brian McCann to be here for his entire career, while maintaining his production, and the 5 years after he walks away, watch him go into the HOF wearing a Braves uniform. I like Brian McCann. Everything he stands for and the way he plays the game screams LOVE ME!
But I also think that it might end up being his downfall. The kid plays hard and he’s a gamer. He doesn’t want anytime off. Chipper is the same way. They are NEEDED for the team to succeed, yet when they are not capable of doing “what they do” with nagging minor injuries, an occasional day off might be better in the long run.
If you recall, I was steadfast in my stance last year, that McCann should have been given more days off when Salty was still a Brave, just to keep McCann as fresh as he could be. Of course there was going to be “drop off” with Salty in there. But was the drop off any more than what it already was with McCann not being the McCann we knew (before the trade - after the trade he seemed to heat up a bit).
Anyhow. This NEVER was about my questioning McCann’s ability, my dislike of him, and any of the other nonsense. Hell, it was hardly about past catchers and what happens to them after 30 (that’s just where the debate went to). It’s about my opinion that unless the Braves payroll is allowed to skyrocket over the next 5 years, the “odds” of us keeping McCann in that 2013 option year (unless the guy happens to be healthy and still raking), are less than what most Braves fans are willing to admit in 2008.
Other than Chipper and Smoltz EVERYBODY ELSE has been allowed to walk, or has been traded when the time has come. One could argue that Chipper and Smoltz are the “faces” of our everyday lineup and pitching staff, and that McCann is the “new” face of the organization.
For the next few years, there will be no denying that. He and Francouer are definitely the immediate future of this team. But if what DOB (and the scouting report) says about Jordan Schafer is correct, our “newer” face of the organization will already be in place by 2012.
What if Tex is signed to a 5-7 year deal after this year? More than likely falling into the 15-20 million per year range (and more than likely backloaded). I believe that McCann’s salary in 2012 is going to be 8.5 (I have to admit - most of this argument was based on my thinking that the final year of the deal was for about 13 million) million dollars. Probably a “steal” in today’s game, and as long as he’s productive, surely a steal then (unless a younger kid is capable of doing what he’s doing then).
I suppose most of it depends on how good all the other young guys we have, turn out to be. That will be about the time that many are due for free agency. If we have two other young guys that need to get paid, and a young catcher on the rise, I don’t think they’d think twice about moving McCann. It’s how they operate.
It goes back to the Murphy thing. YES, I know Murph asked to be traded. But that doesn’t mean the team HAD TO DO IT. You stated the team NEVER wanted to trade. Sure they didn’t. Fans loved him. Bobby loved him. EVERYBODY loved Dale Murphy.
Do you think the Twins “want” to trade Johan Santana? Different reasons make different teams do different things that they DON’T want to do. Believe me. If the Braves felt that they were close to winning in 1990 and that Murphy could still help them in RF, while leaving Justice at 1B (more than moving Justice to RF and finding another 1B - Sid Bream), they would have kept him. As much as they loved Dale Murphy, it was their choice to make and they made it.
My point of the last paragraph (and the same point Justice made after getting traded to Cleveland)…If Dale Murphy (many fans FAVORITE BRAVE of all time), can get traded - for whatever reason - then why can’t Brian McCann be moved 5 years down the road? It’s not like the Braves have a track record of NEVER trading fan favorites. They don’t give guys “no trade clauses” for that exact reason. Everybody can be had if it helps the Braves out - and the price is right.
Anyhow. I truly am ready to move on from this topic.
I hope there are no hard feelings, and I will refrain from mocking your “options” conversation with DOB, as long as the name calling stays away.
Further more I hope McCann has a fantastic season and career for the Braves. With all that there is to be excited about this season (and there is a lot, IMO), I find it silly to have wasted the past 48 hours arguing about a hypothetical situation that is AT LEAST 5 years away.
L8r.
By Curt
January 20, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this
Anyone read the article on SI.com about the the 10 players you can trust in this steroid era? I was thinking before I read the article that Chipper would have to be one of them. And I was excited to see that he was and in fact he was who the author approached about the topic. I have loved Chipper since we were both kids in 95 and I would be crushed if I found out he did roids or HGH. That is why I have to think that all these players getting outed on their usage has to really upset some people and make them question the game. I know I would if I found out my favorite player, Chipper, ever cheated.
By Serbok
January 20, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this
Nice to see things havent changed at the old playground:o)
Cheers to All:o)
Ozzie Still Rules!
By uga-brave
January 20, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
serbok,
long time no chat, hope all is well my vampire friend.
still debating the braves financially challenged future.
By Nolie
January 20, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this
Now, another good one from 2007 is Ratatouille. But that’s an entirely different type of film and does not merit a “Best Picture” or whatever they call it.tr
good chance that it will win best animated movie. very cute film.Transformers wins my ‘best guilty pleasure’ award
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 20, 2008 5:19 AM | Link to this
N8 , yes the Braves had to trade Dale Murphy , they had no other choice. To do anything else would be dishonoring the player that Dale Murphy exemplified.
Dale Murphy was and still is to this day the most honored and respected player to ever put the Tomahawk across his chest.
The team was rebuilding around pitching , defense and youth. Dale Murphy wasn’t part of that plan. He knew it and selflessly asked to be traded in the belief that it would make the Braves a better team in 1991.
Guess what ? It did and Dale was right.
The alternative was unthinkable. The most popular player in Braves history asks to be traded. Instead , the Braves stick him on the bench ? Dale Murphy would have had no choice but to retire.
Ask anybody , ask Dale himself or anybody in the front office if they made the right move. Hell , even Dave O’Brien would agree that the Braves made the right choice.
N8 , can you see the point ? The Braves did not have a choice and to assume anything else is just wrong.
By Nolie
January 20, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this
not that it means anything but There Will Be Blood is IMDB’s 25th rated movie of all time so far and No Country For Old Men is ranked 26th. pretty high evaluations. Certainly one of them will win the Oscar???
By ncgary
January 20, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
heres a question i doubt anyone can honestly answer, but who knows we may have an economics major among us, in zimbobwee spelling? they are printing a 10 million dolar bill, the main reason so zimbobweens dont have to take wheeelbarrows of money to market to buy a loaf of bread, what if something similar happens here, ( i know hardly likely with the intelligent people in the bush admin leading our once great nation,0snarksnarksnark) but lets for theorys sake say a loaf of bread costs a milliondollars next year, all these contracts that are signed , do the players association have any safeguards built into their contracts that they could renegotiate , or would they become slaves to the economy and be forced to work all year for less than the cost of a loaf of bread?
By TommyP
January 20, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Curt: Well said. I haven’t read that article yet but Chipper would be one of the last that I would SUSPECT took ‘roids or HGH. He just doesn’t have that build. Chipper is naturally strong and a natural athlete. If he was from the midwest, they’d say he’s “country-strong.”
I’m not a huge Chipper fan based mainly on some things he’s said over the years and his demeanor on the field. However, age seems to have changed some of his ways as far as showing more emotion (he should personally thank Francouer for that turnaround) and saying stupid things. (remember the statement about “getting tired of eating cookies all the time?”) His injury problems have also irritated me but that’s another story entirely.
On another note, I haven’t read much about this latest trade involving Aybar. There’s something more there than what we know. Aybar’s a solid, young talent that has had some problems. I realize that. But that lefty we got must be better than what’s reported (at least in the Braves’ eyes) because we deal Fontaine as well????? I looked Fontaine up and it’s clear he has Ron Gant-hands in the infield right now but he’s not too shabby as a hitter, though.
Straight up I can see. I just don’t get why we added the extra prospect.
From what they gave up, I think they clearly expect this kid to make the team as a situational lefty this year.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
I should’ve added Charlie Wilson’s War and Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead as two others I loved in 2007.
By rich brave
January 20, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
So I ask once again what do we do with the guys out of options normally? Just hope thay all pass through waivers after they don’t make the roster out of spring training?
By N8
January 20, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Coach
For the umteenth time….I GET IT. What happens if McCann’s tools deteriorate by 2012 and he is not part of our future plans, just the same? And a younger, cheaper catcher with better ability (at that point in their careers), is ready to step in?
You keep acting as though I don’t get it with Murphy. I get it. On the other hand, you don’t seem to get my point, about what I’m saying.
Which is, if the situation is similar (as I described above), how can one expect McCann to be above being traded, if Dale Murphy wasn’t. And before you repeat yourself about him being selfless and reasonable enough to request a trade for the best of the team, you don’t think McCaan possesses the same traits?
I think the fact of HIM wanting the option year in 2013, says a LOT about him not wanting to be a burden if his abilities have eluded him at that point.
As for the guys talking about Chipper? I suspect that most (and possibly ALL) of his years have been clean. He was extremely skinny as a rookie and during his firs few years in the bigs.
The size that he has now, can be considered natural “filling out” that a veteran goes through as he gets older, and maintains a weightlifting regimen.
However, that being said, I can specifically remember Skip, Pete, Joe and Don (along with Chipper himself), talking about putting on around 20 lbs muscle in the off-season BEFORE his MVP season.
Folks, something has never sat right with me about that. He had never done that before then, and hasn’t since. It coincidentally goes side by side with his MVP year. Why is that?
Not trying to start a war. Because I love Chipper as much as the next guy, and would get great satisfaction knowing the guy’s career was clean.
But to ignore that season is a bit naive, I think, and I find it hard to believe that si.com wouldn’t feel the same way.
By rich brave
January 20, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Still recriminations here over the Braves move from Richmond. H&ll, its done. Time for the local community to get to work on a marketing plan to convince Washington that they should emulate Atlanta’s consolidation of minor and major franchises in 2011.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Rich Brave, if they’re good enough or have a skill that’s good enough (raw power, great arm, etc) that the Braves know they probably wouldn’t make it through waivers, they’re either carried on the 25-man roster, even if team knows they might not contribute muc (they were gonna do this with Langerhans one year because of his defense, and he ended up hitting a bit that season), or they’ll try to trade the guy before or during spring training, and if they can’t deal him they’ll wait and try to get him through waivers just before opening day, when other teams are less likely to have room on their 40-man rosters.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
NOLIE, not sure what IMDB is, but I’d agree, at least at this early stage, without giving it a lot of thought, that those two movies would be on my all-time list. Maybe higher than 25-26. Folks, go see There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men if you haven’t. Both are remarkable….
Daybe, didn’t see Assasination of…. but am going to rent it when it comes out, for sure.
By Lew
January 20, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Nathan-Sorry, Dude. You can’t base steroid use on a comment by Skip Caray or Pete Van Wieran, no matter HOW much we like and revere our long-time announcers. If you look at Chipper’s MVP season, you might find a closer analysis somewhat revealing-
1999 was NOT Chipper’s best year in R, H, 2B, 3B, RBI, or BA.
It WAS his best season in HR (only by 7HR), SB (steroids gave him a better jump?), BB (steroids gave him more patience at the plate?), SLG (probably because of his HR and he hit many doubles), OBP (all those walks will do it) and OPS+ (barely-he almost matched it LAST year).
Again-sorry Dude, but this points to one thing and one thing only-Career Year. There is no indication that he had anything more than a real good season during his peak years in the middle of a great career, which one could expect that he would have somewhere along the line. There was no massive upswing in his numbers and those he did show a rise in, were reasonable gains.
Like I said earlier-you can’t base anything on an off the cuff remark by Skip or Pete. Even the Mitchell report wouldn’t have jumped all over that one.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
I never said it was a bad movie. Not once.TennesseePaul
I know, actually you said it’s “not a bad movie.”
Just don’t think it’s the best movie of 2007. I think, if you put another actor in Daniel Day’s place and the actor does an adequate job, no one would think the movie was “epic”. TennPaul
Put, say, Sean Penn or Ed Norton in it, it’s still epic.
By rich brave
January 20, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Thanks Dave.
By Educated Braves Fan
January 20, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
N8 and Coach, please do us all a favor and stop your argument. It ruined this blog a long time ago. Just exchange email addresses and continue it with each other.
By NoOrdinaryRabbit
January 20, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
DOB A movie fan like you should check out IMDB, the Internet Movie Database. It is a great resource for researching and reviewing movies.
My wife and I use it all the time for answering those “hey, who was that guy playing…” and “what was that movie where…” questions.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 20, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Coach,
McCann has yet to scratch his potential. Brian’s peak years should be between the ages of 28 to 32.
That would be nice if true but it’s overly optimistic. Players tend to peak physically (and numbers-wise) in their late 20s. There are a few outliers, but that’s become the accepted wisdom for the past couple of decades, since Bill James first pointed it out.
With a player like McCann, who plays the most demanding position physically and insists on being in there when he’s banged up, conditioning will probably be the key to his longevity.
He should be one of the top two or three offensive catchers the next several year, but my guess is that unless he switches positions or the Braves deploy a backup for 50-60 games a season, he will have his best years under his current contract and may actually start to decline near contract’s end.
By N8
January 20, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Educated Braves Fan
Your objection is noted…..but overruled. I’ll continue my discussion with Coach for as long as I so choose. There isn’t a rule anywhere that says I need to “exchange email addresses” with anybody.
If you don’t like the topic, or either of our views on this subject, use that little dial on your mouse and scroll past them. You see at the top of each post there is a By-line that says who the post is from. If you happen to see Coach or N8 on that line……ignore it.
Many thanks for your opinion, though.
Lew
“You can’t base steroid use on a comment by Skip Caray or Pete Van Wieran, no matter HOW much we like and revere our long-time announcers.”
If that was the only comment I would have made, I would understand your view. But Chippe himself said that he put on the weight, and if your memory is a little foggy, go look up some photos from 99, and compare them to 98 and before.
The entire paragraph that follows, shows how naive you are on the subject, or how little you’ve read about it (much of what I have read is accounts from guys who admitted using roids).
“It WAS his best season in HR (only by 7HR), SB (steroids gave him a better jump?), BB (steroids gave him more patience at the plate?), SLG (probably because of his HR and he hit many doubles), OBP (all those walks will do it) and OPS+ (barely-he almost matched it LAST year).”
Come on man! Here are the answers to the “questions” above, in order.
Yes, while “only” 7 more HR, the juice obviously gives guys a little more umph.
No. It would not make him more paitient as you say. But Bonds has (allegedly) said to Greg Anderson how much better he SAW the ball, which proves that the juice improves eyesight.
As for almost matching the numbers last year? No real answer there. Maybe playing in fewer games, allowed him to not have to maintain the pace for 162 games.
As for the “career year” comment? You mean like Brady Anderson or Luis Gonzalez?
Similar to Barry Bonds, Chipper is a FANTASTIC ballplayer. Nobody would ever say otherwise. Bonds more than likely was going to the HOF before the spike in his numbers (and hat size). Why did Bonds do it? Ego? Who knows. Maybe the ONLY reason he did it was to “recover” more quickly and allow himself to play through injuries or recover from them quicker, and the “side effect” was him putting up more numbers.
Listen. I’m NOT accusing Chipper. I would prefer that he didn’t use, and hope that is the case. I’m just saying, to overlook, one monster year, where he happend to put on around 20 pounds of muscle in the previous off-season, is pure blind faith.
Further more, to assume that NO BRAVES players (while wearing a Braves uniform - Justice with the Yankees doesn’t count), is also silly.
I hope I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to lump him in with the other guys, because of one season.
BravesFanInRockie
Glad to see Coach and I haven’t ruined the blog for you. LOL!
I’m not looking for people to agree with me, or side with me. But I appreciate your comment, using a little common sense when it comes to catcher’s production around the age of 30.
That being said, Coach did a nice job of finding more guys than I though exsisted that were still productive (or had a few productive seasons), at that age.
The desire to ruin the blog further for Educated Braves Fan, compells me to continue typing on this subject, but the respect for the others that might feel the same way, will cause to lay low with it. :-)
By mo in the boonies
January 20, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB and Tenn paul for “de-fuzzing me” about Tex. I just thought the deal was, he wouldn’t have to sign any contract until after the 08 season.
TommyP Smiling about the “country strong”, also in the Midwest, good high school basketball shooters are called “barn shots” because they practice shooting balls at their baskets in the barn.
Braveheart Do you think Mrs. Manning’s baby boy is going to be able to hack 13 below zero in Greenbay? With a wind chill factor of 30 below?
BTW, it is 5 above here in the Boonies. And our bay out in front is frozen over for the first time this year.
Has anyone actually eaten Iguana? Too ugly to eat.
By N8
January 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Lew
Here you go. Read it for yourself.
Chipper’s 1999 20 pound weight gain
By TennesseePaul
January 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
I’d still disagree. The story itself is not epic. It’s a good movie, not bad, but not epic. The progression and themes in the movie are not all that deep. Any way, the point of the exercise was to focus on the story and not the performance.
I think PT should have stuck with Jon Brion on the Soundtrack. Jonny Greenwood leaned too heavily on Ennio Morricone for his inspiration.
By TennesseePaul
January 20, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Charlie Wilson’s war was a great movie. I really enjoyed that one. Hanks and Hoffman did excellent jobs and the story was interesting. I’d never really read up on that part of history. I suppose I will have to now. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of it was “hollywooded” for the big screen.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, funny, I loved the soundtrack. Thought Jonny Greenwood brought a different tone, a flourish I wouldn’t have expected. Loved it. But again, I really like Morricone soundtracks.
Oh, and the story is absolutely, unquestionably epic and sweeping. We just totally disagree on the movie. No problem. We do agree Daniel Day-Lewis is phenomenal in the role, at least.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 20, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
DOB:
here’s an SAT analogy:
IMDb (Internet Movie Database, imdb.com) is to Movies as baseball-reference.com is to baseball.
IMDb has pretty much everything (entire cast and crew, trivia, goofs, soundtrack listings, release dates, etc) for more or less every movie ever made. great website and one that a movie buff like yourself would enjoy.
By Kris in NC
January 20, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Alot of stuff going on in these threads. McCann will be catching well into his 30’s, he is doing everything in the off season to improve his health and strength. When he signed that contract last year, he did think of the team, giving them the option but if he performs the way he has been performing you know the Braves will pick that up. To keep him under contract until 2012 for that reasonable amount is a sweet deal. Jeff will get locked up. He showed this past season, he was willing to improve, yes his power numbers might have dropped but other numbers went up, now if he can put all of it together, he could be one of the better hitters in the league. He was clutch. He will be here for a long time. The Braves will not give him up for nothing, he, along with Brian McCann are the face of this franchise for years to come and if Tex is signed to a long term deal, then these 3 will be the faces that we the fans will associate with the Braves long after Chipper, Smoltz and Bobby Cox are long gone.
As for movies to go and see, here is a recommendation for you all, The Bucket List. A very funny movie. Whatelse do you expect from Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman. Sean Hayes has a supporting role in the movie.
By AdirondackDave
January 20, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
DOB and others — In addition to all the good baseball comments, more and more I appreciate the recommendations on the movies you’ve all seen. My wife and I are now looking forward to seeing There will be Blood and No Country for Old Men when we get past this damn bug than is wearing us down.
We did get to see Charlie Wilson’s War and also thought it was really good, a little short of great, but really good. I thought it was about 3/4s of a great movie and could have used a “last chapter” on Taliban rule. Hanks was again outstanding. We happened to catch “Terminal” last night again on TV and his versitility is just amazing.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Daybed, I just went to IMBD. Can’t believe I’ve never been on that site. Very informative.
By Roman Gal
January 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
This is a story from June 2006
By nOLIE
January 20, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
nust sure what IMDB is, but I’d agree, at least at this early stage, without giving it a lot of thought, that those two movies would be on my all-time list. Maybe even higher than 25-26.DOB
IMDB.com is Internet Movie DataBase.com. It is absolutely the most informative movie/TV site on the web. Every movie and TV show I’ve ever looked up and I mean thousands & Thousands is on that site with all the info you could possibly be interested in about it. If you have never tried it, give it a look-see.
By Educated Braves Fan
January 20, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
N8 BTW, I actually agreed with you and not Coach. I just got tired of it. Regarding the Chipper weight gain in 1999: 20 lb is not as hard to gain as one might think. I gained 15 lb of muscle in a period of 6 weeks once, using creatine and other weight gainers, and I’m not 6’4”. I also didn’t have a trainer. Another thing to consider is that Chipper was a pretty skinny guy (relatively) in 95-98.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Two others I’d have in my best-of ‘07 list: Superbad, and Lars and The Real Girl.
By N8
January 20, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know you don’t specifically want to touch the topic of performance enhancing in the Braves clubhouse, and I surely appreciate you not wanting alienate yourself from the access of the players that you need to have to do your job for the AJC, and us bloggers.
But in this day and age, is it really that unreasonable to question ANYBODY’s past, when it comes to the subject?
And without naming names, is there anybody past or present on the Braves (who’s names haven’t already surfaced in reports and investigations), that you personally would suspect of using at one point or another?
Again, I don’t expect names. A Simple: Yes or No, will do just fine.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Adirondack, I thought Hanks was great in the role, and I thought Philip Seymour Hoffman was just as good or even better in his role. He stole scenes whenever he was on the screen. He just simmered with seething angst, and exploded a couple times. Loved it.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
What a game, what a country: Horacio Ramirez gets a $100,000 raise to 2.75 mill in a new contract with Seattle, after posting a 7.16 ERA in 2007. Yes, 7.16.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Horacio gets a raise to $2.75 mill after posting a 7.16 ERA; meanwhile the highest paid Marlin will be Kevin Gregg at $2.5 mill, after posting 32 saves in 36 opportunities and 74 appearances last season.
By Lew
January 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Nathan-Look Dude, if you want to believe Chipper juiced then go ahead and believe whatever you want. It’s pretty obvious, if that is the case, that I won’t change your mind. However…
Aren’t you being somewhat disingenuous comparing Chipper’s 7HR gain to those gains shown by Gonzalez (57 HR, 142RBI-never hit more than 28, 114 the rest of his career) and Anderson( 50Hr 110 RBI, never hit more than 24, 81 rest of his career)?
As for the weight gain-Dude, the Doctors changed my medication and I gained 100 pounds in tweo years. Gaining 20 pounds with a muscle training and weight lifting regimen (especially when you eat at McD’s) is not that big a deal and is certainly no indication of steroid use. I think it’s time you faced facts that Chipper had a career year and that is all.
Oh-As for the extra walks-If Chipper had not been walking a lot throughout his career, then MAYBE you would have-well, Nothing.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
And did you see the deal Dotel got with the White Sox? Two years, $11 mill, after going 2-1 with a 4.11 ERA and 11 saves for the Royals and Braves in 2007, and making a total of 29 appearances during the 2005-06 seasons.
That’s 62 relief appearances and arm surgery in the past three seasons, and an $11 million, two-year contract at age 34 (and don’t forget his DL stint late last season with the Braves).
Dotel will be paid more next year than Soriano, Yates and Moylan combined.
By N8
January 20, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Educated Braves Fan
Regardless of whether you agree with me or not, I can appreciate you being tired of the subject (I am too), but I still stand by my stance of “if you don’t like it, scroll past it”. I do it all the time, without complaint.
More often than not, I can’t keep out of subjects that initially don’t involve me. But for the previous few weeks (before the NFL season was over), that I wasn’t blogging as much, I was reading. I often enjoy watching people go back and forth, often beating a dead horse into the ground.
I also understand, many people do not share this view, and would rather not have to scroll past many long post.
I’m a guitarist and have played in various cover and original acts in my region since my late teens (I’m 36), but MOST of my musical tastes are no-where near DOB’s and many of the other bloggers, so rather than start an ongoing war over music (which is PURELY a matter of the listeners opinion, as opposed to sports where there are numbers and history to back up “arguements”), I stay the hell out of most of it, unless an artist that I like, or have considerable knowledge of comes up.
So, I too, get your feelings of being tired of certain subjects. But 9 times out of 10, I just sit back and enjoy the “ride” of letting others battle it out.
I appologize for jumping your sh!t about this subject. Wasn’t very polite of me (though, I thought I stated my stance politely - even with the tinge of sarcasm over the top).
On a side note, I do appreciate you “agreeing with me”. Though it wasn’t a conversation that I was looking for anybody to help me out or takes sides. Just the typical banter that goes back and forth with me and Coach.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe he and I had it out pretty hardcore last off-season over guys like Davies, HoRam and Hudson. While I often disagree with Coach, I appreciate his enthusiam that matches mine, when we have a strong feeling on a subject. It’s what makes this blog so strong compared to others. We can all chew each-other out over topics, yet at the end of the day, the blog wouldn’t be any fun, if we ALL agreed ALL the time.
Lew and I have the same “relationship”.
I enjoy most everybody on here, and look forward on a daily basis to what others are saying, not only about the Braves, but movies, music and about me or something I said. :-)
No other blog (or message board) that I’m involved in, comes CLOSE to bringing me the joy I receive while blogging.
If this thing ever goes away, it will be a sad day for this Braves fan.
Thanks for the insight on the weight gain as well. All reasonable thoughts. I guess at the end of the day, one can only digest ALL of the information you can find from various angles, and people and draw your own conclusions.
Ultimately I don’t think Chipper used. But I also don’t think it’s as ridiculous as some think it is to be suspicious, in today’s game.
Who in the world would have suspected Rafael Palmeiro???
Not me.
By AdirondackDave
January 20, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
DOB — Absolutely, Phillip Seymour Hoffman should get a supporting actor award for that performance in Charlie Wilson’s War. Not to say Hanks wasn’t outstanding as usual… Hoffman has really put himself at the top of current character actors. That was a role some other better-known but lessor guys might have mailed in.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
N8, only reason to suspect Palmeiro might have been if you’d heard all the rumors about the Texas Rangers in the ’90s. There was a lot of talk about ‘roid suspicions surrounding a handful of their hitters.
Like you, I still wouldn’t have suspected Palmeiro, just because he never had the eye-popping stats or muscles.
But being able to work out and recover quickly is another benefit of the stuff, and that could sure help one produce steady numbers at an age when numbers usually decline rapidly for most players.
By N8
January 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Lew
You’re missing the point.
It’s not that I think that Chipper did. It’s that I think based on my distrust for just about EVERYBODY in the game, that it’s very sad that it’s in the back of my mind.
That you have to look at nearly EVERY player in the last 20 or so years, and “wonder”, about certain years.
I don’t think Chipper did. Let me rephrase that. I don’t want to believe that it’s POSSIBLE he did. But I could rattle off about 10 Braves since the run began in 1991 that I would have suspicion of.
Gant, Klesko, Javy, Julio, Big Cat (after the Cancer), Sheffield, Javy, Caminiti (obviously), Giles, Rocker (obviously), Neagle (obviously) and Rafael Belliard. THAT GUY was on something. LOL!
I’m sure there’s more.
My stance is clearly on the side of disappointment, that I have to even think about it. Ultimately it doesn’t matter. Those players brought me joy in watching them play, and I apreciate that. But being the stat hound “old-school” guy that I am, it bugs me.
DOB
They are right on the IMDB site. It’s awesome.
You basically look up an actor, and it will list EVERY movie or TV show they were ever in, directed, produced, wrote for etc… and you can then click on those titles, and it will list EVERY actor, writer, producer that was in that movie.
Off to the left side, is a whole bunch of other options. Like Movie quotes, trivia, mistakes, trailers, original working titles, etc….
It’s a good site for trivia buffs, and people who like “extra” info on movies or TV series.
By gobraves
January 20, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB Dotel isn’t signed yet. This is off of the White Sox official page.
Despite report, Dotel remains unsigned Agent refutes story that free agent inked deal with White Sox
By N8
January 20, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
That’s exactly my point (among other people), about the juice. It’s not necessarily that it makes a player BETTER. It makes them available to play more.
Nobody is questioning Bonds’ and Clemens’ ability to play the game of baseball at the level the DID. They are questioning their ability to play the way they DID (and still do) at an older age. Thus, by default skewing their “numbers” compared to what their peers couldn’t and don’t do, that weren’t “using” in the mid to late 30’s and even in their early 40’s.
That’s why I doubt Chipper used (or what I’m basing my hope on). The fact that he really wasn’t “injury prone” back then. It’s not like he missed a bunch of time, then added 20 pounds, followed by doing what he did.
Now, if all of the sudden he showed up THIS SPRING 20 pounds heavier, and managed to miss only a handful of games, at the age he’s at (along with his recent track record of missing time), THAT would be suspicious.
By uga-brave
January 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
there is a article in the living section of the sunday paper titled “meet the francoeurs.”
sounds like jeff has been pretty busy. maybe i am different but if i was a 23 year old starting major league right fielder i sure as heck would be single.
sounds like he has got his hands full.
By McFann
January 20, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Neight
I just wanted to let you know that I’m sorry for using the word “stupid” in reference to your posts. It was very stupid of me. See, the truth is, I tend to get overly worked up and/or freaked out over stuff (in case you couldn’t already tell. : ) ). I can’t stand the idea of McCann being on some other team, so when you brought that up, I flipped out. Not trying to make excuses for my behavior, because, believe me, it bugs me as much as it does you.
However, I did like some of the things you said early this morning—about what he stands for and all that. His attitude, virtues, or whatever you want to call—that’s what turned me away from Francoeur and well…”fall in love” so to type, with McCann.
I betcha I could come on here later and give you a half a dozen quotes from guys saying something like, “He’s a good dude.” In fact, one of my favorites comes from Russell Martin. He said at the All-Star Game, “I’ve gotten a chance to hang around Brian the last couple of days and he’s awesome. He’s just a good all-around dude. He’s really confident on the field. But off the field, he’s just one of the guys.” Another of my favorites comes from our own DOB, at the start of the All-Star Break, in reference to—well, let me just give you the whole quote, “McCann is the first to say, sounding embarrassed, that other catchers deserved consideration. I’m telling you the kid is as salt-of-the-earth good as it gets.”
So that’s why things like what uga-brave typed about him looking “lazy” behind the plate hurt, so to type. I mean “lazy”? What a buncha bunk!! Cann I type that was stupid? Brian may be your Grade A sleeper at home, but once the game starts, he’s all business. At least uga typed the thing about “he seems like a class act.” But oh! He more than seems, uga, he is a class act!! And we’ll see if he footwork is still, um…”lousy” this year.
By mo in the boonies
January 20, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Ah..Uga-brave Have you no romance in your soul? Remember back when you were young and madly in love, and if you had a great career in front of you, and had waited to be married since you were in high school…. would that we all could be in Frenchy’s shoes!
By N8
January 20, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
McFann
You’re not gonna get me to say anything negative about McCann’s hitting ability, his work ethic, his desire to be on the field (no matter how hurt he is), his ability to call a game, nor his ability to be a good teammate.
No matter what happens at the end of this contract, he’ll have my respect.
But I don’t think you should get so worked up about people knocking his “defensive” ability behind the plate.
His footwork isn’t that great (he’s young, so there’s time to improve it), and his throws aren’t that great either.
But here’s the thing. I’ll take a page from the Greg Maddux school of thought. Maddux was horrible at holding runners and chose more or less, to ignore them over there. He’d “let them” steal 2nd and sometimes even third. His focus was on getting the hitter out. If you get the hitter out, unless the baserunner is gonna steal all three bases, it aint gonna matter much.
Sure, sometimes that came back to bite Maddux. A bloop hit, an error, a wild pitch, or even just giving up ANY hit following a SB. But the bottom line is that even when Maddux was leading the league in ERA, he was still HORRIBLE at holding runners on. Imagine how low his ERA would have been if he was even remotely good at it (or cared).
Same theory can apply to McCann. He allegedly (according to Bobby, Smoltz and many other Braves pitchers), calls a great game. If he can continue to do so, and keep the pitcher on the mound focused on the hitter, it won’t matter how bad his footwork or throwing arm are behind the plate.
That along with what he brings to the table offensively, tells me that if McCann NEVER improves his footwork or arm, he’ll still be worth the dollar ammount of that contract.
The only two things that can change that, are a MAJOR injury taking away his hitting ability (unless the injury is to his brain - his gamecalling ability should always remain), or a younger cheaper guy that’s ready to take his job a few years before the contract is up.
By McFann
January 20, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Neight
People cann type what they want to about McCann’s defense, I mean, hey, it’s a free country. But when they they type that he “looked lazy” behind the plate, well, that’s a bit of a stretch. Typing that he’s lazy somewhat applies that he doesn’t care about the base runners. I don’t believe that’s the case. Course, the reason he might appear “lazy” could be because is slow and/or not fast.
So all-in-all, you are correct in typing that his footwork isn’t exactly “adequate”. But let not the ugas and Met Drools of the blog say that he looks “lazy” or that he defense [stinks]. (Yeah, he didn’t type “stinks”, but I’ve resolved to never say and/or type that word that he used.)
The only two things that can change that, are a MAJOR injury taking away his hitting ability (unless the injury is to his brain - his gamecalling ability should always remain)…
OK, whoa! Again, let’s not go there.
By Frank
January 20, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
If Kotsey get’s hurt his WIFE could play centerfield.
By Overlord
January 20, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Braveheart im sure that if you do your homework for: 1. runners left on base
runners left in scoring position
KKK
failing to drive in runners from 3B with less than 2 outs
Meaningless HR and RBI (not important in the outcome of the game)
If you check that for CF around the league…….maybe you wont be able to defend AJ so much.
Not to mention how bad and clueless he looks while striking out…… it makes everybody sick.
The guy is a HOF, but maybe is the only HOF i would not miss, at least not at the plate. And not while having tons of offensive power.
By rainman
January 20, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
I was wondering why the jones/Diaz combo has not been mentioned as options for the two hole in the lineup. For me johnson is the no brainer but those two are much better than kotsay not even going to start on him. Well maybe a little. He should hit 8th most nights and ninth when hampton starts.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Whaddya say we all put our hands together and help our boy Favre pull this one out? Man, we gotta get him to the Super Bowl.
Two minutes left, tie game, minus-3 degrees at Lambeau. This is great stuff.
By David O'Brien
January 20, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Oh, well … so much for that.
By BosnianBaller
January 20, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
I was hoping favre would pull it out. Favre is to the pack what chipper is to the braves.
By TN-MAN
January 20, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
DOB or anyone else.. Has anyone heard what they are going to do with the 45 games on the Peachtree TV. Read today that the first two games are on Peachtree, would stink to have to miss those. Hopefully they will find a way to carry those in the south.
By BravesFanChris23
January 20, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Its all good, Pats are going to go over Giants at SB XLII. I seriously wanted Packers to win. My prediction record at this point time is 8 for 10. Predicted wild card round 4 for 4. Got the Cowboys/Giants wrong in divisional round which resulted in 3 for 4 or overall 7 for 8. Patriots won, which brought it to 8 for 9, but with Packers loss its 8 for 10. I am still predicting my Pats going 19 - 0, if that occurs, I’ll be 9 for 11, which isn’t bad.
As far as the moves so far. I think Frank Wren has done a good job for the most part. I can’t wait till Spring Training starts to see the new guys get in uniform.
By BravesFanChris23
January 20, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
I’m not going to worry about missing Braves games. I’m going to get MLB Extra Innings for a second time and of course they’ll be on ESPN from time to time and FSN (Marlin’s channel here in Florida).
I’ll have prior commitments Braves 1st game against Nationals March 30th on ESPN, but that’s what DVR is for.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 20, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
How disappointing. The Super Bowl will be indoors , they might as well get the Patriots fitted for their Championship rings.
I think the extreme cold just wore both teams down to nothing. It came down to field position and the kicking game.
Congratulations to the Giants , now they get to play David to the Patriots Goliath. Anybody got a slingshot ?
On the subject of steroids and who was juiced. I have been doing tons of research ever since the Mitchell report came out. Sadly enough , I believe the Hall of Fame has already swung wide the doors to at least one pitcher who was juiced during his career.
This Hall of Fame pitcher actually saw his ERA drop by a full run per nine innings , the guys fastball improved and he became known as a great control pitcher , with all these things happening well into the second half of his career.
One of the classic signs of steroid use is when a player’s basic performance actually improves later in his career. One of the benefits of steroids is that they’re especially helpful in countering the effects of aging.
follow the bread crumbs. Jose Canseco was the typhoid Mary of steroids in Oakland way back in 1988. I’m not going to name the guilty party , most baseball writers will eventually figure it out.
By uga-brave
January 20, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
sorry mCFann,
but brians defense is lacking. he tries to pancake balls away from him. i am a brian fan, but he is what he is a very average defensive catcher.
braveheart will agree with that. now that the giants won, i think he might agree with everything.
either way, nice win for the giants, they deserved it.
as for mcaann, we are lucky to have him.
he is the best catcher we have had since javy.
then again b macc will never have a season like javy did.
javy will always be the best offensive catcher we ever had.
By Braveheart
January 21, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this
man, the nfl sucks these days. none of these teams that played today would have made the playoffs 20 years ago. i’m happy that my giants made the super bowl but i don’t think they are a true super bowl team. these giants would get destroyed 70-3 by the 1986 giants. the last great nfl team ever was the cowboys. the patriots of the last few years have been great FOR THIS ERA but the 85 Bears, the 70s Steelers, the 80s Niners, the 86 Giants, any of the Gibbs Skins Super Bowl winners would destroy any of the Pats teams from this era. Hell, even the Bills teams from the 1990s would have destroyed these Pats teams. The NFL is so watered down and inferior to what it used to be. The NFL has become mediocrity disguised as parity masking mediocrity as greatness.
Can we make this the last time anyone ever refers to Tomlinson as LT? Please stop disgracing those initials. The real LT might have been coked out of his gourd but the real LT never used injury as an excuse and the real LT certainly would not have disappeared under a helmet and a blankie and sat himself on a bench for an entire conference championship game like that little wuss Tomlinson did today because it was too cold. That boy Phillip Rivers shot himself up with who knows what and showed tremendous guts today and his so called superstar running back disappeared under a big blankie on the bench. reminds me of how Michael Vick disappeared under his big blankie on the bench in the frigid cold against Philly in the conference championship game a few years ago. Very fitting that Vick and Tomlinson were essentially traded for one another once upon a time. Barry Sanders might have sucked in playoff games but Barry did not disappear under big blankies on the bench.
Why don’t these NFL coaches do like every other coach does at the amateur level and demand that their players never ever sit on the bench? Sitting on the bench only makes you colder and can’t serve any purpose other than to take your focus off the game at hand.
By Braveheart
January 21, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this
And I understand the NFL benches are heated and everything but IMO the best way to stay warm and focused is to keep pacing and prowling along the sideline dying to pounce back in the game. but i have never played in sub zero temps either so what the hell do I know about anything.
By TennesseePaul
January 21, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
DOB: Well we certainly do disagree. I think it’s questionable but I’ve spent more time on it than I think it’s worth.
Anyways, watching Breaking Bad right now. Show is starting off pretty good…
By uga-brave
January 21, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this
goodnight,
braveheart, the keeper of the faith.
i for one believe you are the king of this blog. not to kiss up, but of all the bloggers you make the most sense.
either way congrads to eli, he deserves it.
cant wait for spring training, straight up braveheart you are the MAN.
just dont tell mCfann. i hope he or she did not read that peice in the AJC about francoeur.
By uga-brave
January 21, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this
buck weaver, DOB. i still think he was better in HIGH FIDELITY. john cusack is still pretty good.
watching eight men out, not a bad movie.
of all the baseball movies it is top ten.
now of course there is nothing better then watching a pool man, drinking beer in a convertible.
then again he is driving a team around with no seat-belts.
By Yars
January 21, 2008 4:11 AM | Link to this
I’m also contemplating on whether I should get MLB Extra Innings. I never needed it in the past, since I live in the south (TN) & was always spoiled with being able to see every Braves game whether the game was on tbs, fox sports net, or sportsouth. But now, those 45 games that will be on Peachtree TV, those who do not live in the Atlanta area, but do live in the south, will they be able to see those games, & if so, how? Will sportsouth or fox sports net pick them up? If not, would I be able to see them if I were to order MLB Extra Innings package? Someone please shed some light on this. Thanks in advance.
By TommyP
January 21, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
And so the McCann debate lingers on for the….4th month? Y’all must be doing well in the relationship department. (heh heh)
So nobody is puzzled about the Aybar deal like I’ve been? Hmmm…oh well.
Anybody that finds it impossible for an athlete to put on 20 lbs. in an offseason without using ‘roids or HGH hasn’t worked out much in their lives.
Let’s see…Chipper got up to 218-220 during his beefed up offseason and is now listed at 210. That sounds right. He kept some of that weight on but is down about 8-10 lbs. ‘cause he’s not on his “bulking up” routine. Anyone still arguing this point has to be a sports talk shock-jock trying to stir the pot.
When using creatine and increasing the diet while working out with a heavier workload, you gain weight. The more intense, the more bulk/weight.
But if you’re going to cast blame on everyone in the era, it seems natural to accuse Rafael Belliard.
Upon his trade to Atlanta, Raffy had two years where he was primarily the starter. But in year 3, his playing time dropped off substantially. Raffy needed to do something to salvage his playing time in Atlanta. So…..in ‘94, you saw markedly better POWER production from the diminutive one, mashing 7 doubles in 120 at bats, 0-2 in steals (extra bulk slowed him down), and a career high .317 slugging percentage.
Raffy never approached those lofty numbers again in his career so it appears to be clear that it was one shot for him to hold onto a starting position. Alas, his body must’ve broken down from all of the foreign substances injected into his frame and he was never the same again.
It’s there for you to see. Look it up. :)
By Random
January 21, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
CC Rider: I saw little bro Davies pitch 1 inning for ELCA. A different pitcher than older brother, lefty, good breaking ball. Think the Braves would dip into the same well twice?
They might — please recall Phil & Joe Niekro, and Mick and Rick Mahler.
By Lew
January 21, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Yars-The Extra Innings Package is available through Digital Cable and Direct TV. It costs about $160 a year (they break it up over four payments on your cable bill). You can usually get a $20 discount if you order the first week of the season.
I only missed two Braves games last year, but I don’t know how no TBS will affect things-I did watch the TBS feed when possible, though I know there was overlap (there were TBS and EIP broadcasts at the same time-just not sure how many). Sometimes you get the other teams’ feed and not the Braves guys. You also get over 100 games per week. Many days I would watch an afternoon game, surf between the Braves, Mets and Phillies in the evening and then catch Vin Scully doing a Dodger’s game at night. It’s a good deal-especially if it’s the only way to see your team play.
XM Radio also broadcasts EVERY MLB game all season long-IF you can handle not seeing the game. I use it for the games I could not get on TV.
We just booked plane tickets to go see the Braves in Toronto this year. We’re even going a day early and will catch the Reds/Blue Jays the night before the Braves’ series. See how Dusty Basker does with the Reds.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
TennPaul, getting ready to watch Breaking Bad on DVR right now. And there should be a new The Wire up on the ondemand thing, next Sunday’s episode.
We watched The Usual Suspects on DVD this weekend — girlfriend hadn’t seen it, and she agreed it lived up to my praise.
I’m still left to watch Friday Night Lights alone, however. Can’t seem to convince her it’s brilliant.
By JerseyGil
January 21, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
I like some one tell me what is going in on with braves Schedule this year…In MLB.com the Braves Schedule is not finalized yet, there are the only team with a no printable schedule…i can’t print a complete Schedule…even the AJC show an schedule much of dates are TBD….I think this have to do with the TV problem the Braves has this year….I live in Jersey and last year i have the Xtra inning pkg…was wonderful.
By McFann
January 21, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
To: Uga-Brave
I will not deny that McCann’s defense is lacking. Let me tell you that I dreaded each and every base runner (unless it was Estrada, heh heh). Heck, I mean, even Paul Lo Duca stole a base off Brian back in ‘06. (I think it was ‘06…) But I didn’t like how you used the word “lazy” about it. Especially towards the end of the season, his knees and feet were prob’ly pretty darn sore, and having to jump up to catch a Jose Reyes on the base paths can’t be easy. But I shouldn’t use injuries as an excuse, I suppose. He sure as heck wouldn’t.
And I remember plenty of times when the umpires screwed up the call, or Martin Prado would bobble the ball and they give an error to McCann. (OK, I’ll admit, that I only heard on the radio. Guess since I didn’t see it, it’s a pretty lame example.) But yes, all 13 errors were not because of Prado or whoever. His defense needs work, and I think this Spring Training (is it time yet??) he’ll work that out so hopefully he’ll catch more than 21% of base runners.
You’re pro’bly correct in typing that he’ll never have a 43/109/.328 season like Javy. But we can’t say that for sure, cann we? The 43 homers…well, I’d like to think he could hit over 30, but frankly—I don’t want to type like Neight ; ) but—I don’t think that’ll happen. But if it did, I’ll gladly eat my words. : )
Yeah, don’t worry. I did not read that thing about Francoeur and his wife. We picked the perfect Sunday to not buy a paper. My mother saw it online, and mentioned a few things from it. Boy!! Him and his corny jokes!! That dumb thing about the football and dinner at 8 o’clock, and the furniture or whatever? Give me a break!! That’s what bugs me about him. He’s always throwin’ those corny jokes at ya, and some—no, most of them just aren’t funny.
And so the McCann debate lingers on for the….4th month?
Really? Wow. I shoulda started blogging a long time ago. : )
OK, that was a looooong post. Sorry about that.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 21, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
anyone else on here read “The Road” by cormac mccarthy? i just finished it. wow.
By Lew
January 21, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
JerseyGil-If you’re still around, email me LewHartman@comcast.net I want to talk to you about something.
By nOLIE
January 21, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Let’s see…Chipper got up to 218-220 during his beefed up offseason and is now listed at 210.TommyP
Chipper himself was quoted around 2003 as saying that he got up to 245 or so in 1999. he is now more like 220-225, certainly not 210
By Avery
January 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Sorry to change topic, but this morning I was trying to think of the most heart-breaking Braves losses during their run. Here’s what I came up with… 1. 96 World Series game 4 2. 91 World Series game 6 3. 92 World Series game 2 4. 93 NLCS game 5 5. 05 NLDS game 4 Any additions to this list?
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
My mind for some reason has been wandering back to Mark Teixeira and his agent Scott Boras. I almost said uber-agent but lately uber has slipped a little which brings me to this thought.
With the lightning fast agreement for ‘08 between Tex and the Braves, could this be the first signal of an attempt by Boras to rehabilitate his own reputation? I’m not just referring to the A-Rod and Rogers debacles. For years, apparently there has been an increasing dis-interest by some GMs to deal with him because of his successful efforts on behalf of his players to jack up salaries. Given this, just wondering if Boras might use the Teixiera situation to be less of an obstacle in moving more quickly toward a long-term extension now rather that hold out for free agency and what that might bring. I know, this may be as much wishful thinking on my part as anything else but maybe, just maybe, this will turn out to surprise us with a Tex contract this spring before the season starts.
By Lew
January 21, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Adirondack Dave-Don’t know that Boras has seen the light in regard to all of the GM’s, but maybe he is realizing that he needs to listen to his clients, too. THAT would be a step forward on his human rehabilitation trail.
By DAP
January 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
adrionak dave i think this stuff with boras is going to start to cause a bit of a market correction, or at least a plateau. boras hasnt had to great of an offseason.
i think alot of teams will be going young, giving out contracts like the one mccann got, and it will make the old vets have less demand, so thier price will go down. itll take awhile to happen, probably, but i think many organizations are starting to get the “enough is enough” attitude as much as some fans are.
By flange1
January 21, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
A. Dave,
Interesting that you bring up Tex and Boras. I know that nothing is done yet, but I believe there is some work being done on an extension RIGHT now. Thankfully all negotiations are being done behind the scenes, but I think a deal might happen.
Wouldn’t that totally change our perceptions of the Braves if we could sign Tex to a long term deal?
WOW!!!
By OrlandoFan
January 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
My wife loves Friday Night Lights and always reminds me when it’s on the DVR (we watch almost nothing live). It’s a great, great show with terrific actors and story lines, though a couple of them this season have been strained. Enjoy it, because I fear it won’t return next fall.
By DonCoburleone
January 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Great article breaking down the Renteria/Marte trade
As if it wasn’t already obvious to all Braves fans at this point that this was a GREAT trade by Scheurholz, heres the proof…
By Roger
January 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
I’ve read a 2nd hand account that Buck Martinez interviewed Bobby Cox on Baseball This Morning on XM today, and that Cox said Soriano just signed a 2 year deal. Maybe something’s in the works?
By Avery
January 21, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
DonCobuleone Nice article you referenced. If anything, the article certainly proves one point: Those who criticize trades are often proven wrong. This off-season, there have been so many people who have criticized the recent Braves trades, even though not a game has been played. I try not to get down on JS or FW too much, because I trust that they know much more about the players than I’ll ever know. So far this off-season, we have lost guys like Renteria, Villarreal, and Devine, and if you listen to some of the whining you would think that we just lost Jones, Teixeira, and Schafer. I just don’t think one can truly analyze a trade until everything pans out, and this article certainly demonstrates that.
By JerseyGil
January 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Hey lew….i just email you…what up….About Tex…you think he get between 18,20 mil per year…or he don’t want to Play in Atl…Sometime player don’t feel confi in one city or another, and that is part of geeting a contract.
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
DonC — Thanks for that Edgar trade link. Good reading…
Just to follow up on comments on Tex, Boras, etc. When DOB reported last week that there had indeed been some discussions between Wren and Boras regarding a contract extension, I took that as a clear positive sign. Hasn’t it also been reported that in the recent past John S. (among others) refused to talk to Boras? It may be only conversation on length of contract or the status of the Braves unwillingness to include a no-trade clause. Even so, you can’t reach a successful conclusion without starting the process and Wren and Boras have done that. As Falange1 has suggested, this is being done behind the scenes, not with competing press releases typical of some (read NY) baseball people in their dealings. The next 30-60 days could bring good news for the Braves, I sure hope so.
By Hammy the Brave
January 21, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Is it written in stone that Bobby has to carry a 12 man pitching staff into the season? What if the starters hold up well in the spring and Bennett or Hampton can work as the longman in the bullpen, couldn’t he then realistically go with an 11 man staff?
I realize how important pitching is in today’s game, but I still think that last pitcher isn’t used often enough to justify it’s use. It also unnecessarily undermines the bench, by cutting out a spot that I think could be better used there.
This leads to my next concern, why doesn’t FW seriously address the issue of a real fulltime backup to Chipper at 3B, someone with real power(to try to replace his power when he’s gone for extended periods)?
You can say that Infante, Prado or Lilibridge can play 3B with the glove, but they can’t match Chipper’s power. Why doesn’t FW scoop up an Eric Hinske or Dallas McPherson from the free agent bin, to provide a better backup to Chipper?
Also, I’m glad for the quick signing of Tex and hopeful that Franceour can be locked up soon, but what about signing Soriano longterm, is there any talk by FW about that? I see him as our closer of the future and hate the thought of him running off as a free agent, when we can’t afford him. Also, don’t we control Soriano’s and Mike Gonzalez’s rights thru the 2009 season? I’ve seen info on certain websites that seem to think it’s only thru 2008.
Thanks for the info,
Hammy the Brave
By TennesseePaul
January 21, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
The Usual Suspects. Now that was a good one. I love watching good films with people who have yet to see them. It’s like watching it for the first time all over again.
Friday Night Lights was good. I watched that with my wife when it came out… at her request. I think I was in the mood for some sort of candy like a good cheap action flick. I’m glad I heeded way. That was a rather enjoyable flick.
What’d you think of Breaking Bad? I appreciated the lack of commercials. And I was a little surprised at the envelope pushing done in the show. I enjoyed seeing Bryan Cranston in a different role. Got so used to him in the comedic role as either Whatley or Hal. Or even his brief spot in Little Miss Sunshine. This was a little more… I don’t know… edgy than those roles… I’m curious as to how this show develops but it has some promise.
By JerseyGil
January 21, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
This is to all of you that think about chipper was juice….i been follow Chipper Carrer thin he was in HS in Deland fl area…i live in Sanford Florida from 1977 thru 1990 until i was tranfer to Atlanta area..i never ever see a dedicated Major league Player like Mr.Larry Jones….i met his father in Stetson University when he was a Baseball coach there, and he help his son to be a productive baseball player in the right way…He always work hard. that is why he got those nagy injuries lately….but see and wait this year….He will be the MVP this year.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, I liked Breaking Bad. Will definitely watch again and see how it develops. Looks far more promising than most new shows. AMC might have another hit (not as good as Mad Men, but could be quite solid).
By the way, I was talking about Friday Night Lights the series, not the movie (though I liked the movie, too). The series is one of the best on TV.
And you’re right about watching great movies with someone who hasn’t seen them. Especially when you haven’t watched in years and years, which I hadn’t with The Usual Suspects.
By DonCoburleone
January 21, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
The best new show on TV is The First 48; anybody watch that show?
By DAP
January 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
hammy i dont think there is any chance of not having a 12 man pitching staff, in baseball these days, when we rarely see complete games, and most relief pitchers only go one inning at a time, i cant see a staff with less than 12 pitchers getting it done, unless your rotation was full of guys all pitching at least 200 innings, and relief guys who could be used for 3 innings at a time.
the game has changed so much in this way, that it would take a radical shift to see a team do well with 11 pitchers all season.
that doesnt mean we cant get a good back up for chipper though. ideally, we would have a guy with power that would back up both corner infield positions.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Hammy, Braves control Gonzalez through 2009, Soriano through 2008.
Teams are understandably reluctant to give long-term extensions to closers, whose longevity is so tenuous. So many break down that most teams don’t want to give out long-term deals until they have to.
What if Soriano struggles in the role and Gonzalez looks great after he comes back at midseason? Gonzalez has proven he can handle the closer role, so maybe they’d go with him in that case. You just never know. Lets things play out.
Oh, and no, it’s not written in stone he has to go with 12 pitchers, but I can’t imagine he’d go with fewer on a staff that includes so many older starters and/or pitchers with health issues….
One last thing: Eric Hinske? Really? Dude hit .204 with a .398 slugging percentage and 54 strikeouts in 186 at-bats last season, and you think Braves should devote a roster spot to him so he could provide “real power” as a 3B backup?
I’ll bite my tongue and just say I can’t imagine why they’d do that. By the way, he hasn’t played 3B since playing 10 games there in 2006 (none in 2005, none in 2007).
Oh, and the other guy you mentioned, Dallas McPherson? Hammy, are you an agent representing these players, because otherwise I can’t imagine anyone pulling that name out and presenting it as a wise option for the Braves.
McPherson is 27 years old and has a .247 average and .297 OBP in parts of three seasons in the majors, with 18 homers and nearly 121 strikeouts in 360 at-bats. You want a guy who strikes out once every three at-bats, a guy with more than five times as many strikeouts as walks, to be carried as a 3B backup?
You realize they traded for veteran Omar Infante to fill the role, right? So they’re gonna, what, get another guy now because Infante broke his hand in winter ball and might miss the first two or three weeks of the season?
Unless you’re getting someone to take Thorman’s spot, don’t see how else you’re going to fit another corner-infield backup on this roster. And if you’re replacing Thorman, I’d hope you’d do better than fading Hinske or the whiff machine McPherson.
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil — You may be on to something. Chipper got into 130+ games this past year and now with Tex in the lineup and a solid 1-8, Cox may give him a few more rest days. That may in turn result in fewer physical problems and something like 145+ games in ‘08. I don’t see any evidence of his exceptional skills declining and so, if he does get into 145-150 games, he certainly could put up MVP numbers. Not saying it will happen… but I certainly think it could. One reservation that I still have though is much the team and Chipper in particular will miss Edgar. He was just amazing last year in the #2 slot. Will be very interesting to see how Bobby handles #1-2 and how that may affect Chipper and Tex’s production.
By Lew
January 21, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-I got to go with you on Usual Suspects-it’s one of my favorites all time. My all time favorite is The Man Who Would Be King with Sean Connery and Michael Caine. The best thing either one of them ever did-John Huston, too.
I’ve said all along that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Tex resigned with the Braves long term. I think our chances are excellent. Remember his face when he was introduced in Atlanta last year? He was not expecting that kind of reception. Couple that with his wife’s family living in Georgia and the fact he will be making a truck full of money even if he gets less with the Braves and I would bet we will sign him. Then we can get Frenchy wrapped up long term. Future looks rosy to me, but then I’m one of the Usual Suspects when it comes to Braves’ optimism.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Happy 52nd birthday to Robby Benson, who as little Henry Steele stood up to The Man at Western U — and ended up getting the girl, played by the gorgeous Annette O’Toole.
I know you of a certain age know the movie.
By DAP
January 21, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
chipper and tex will battle for the MVP all season long!!! this is gonna be a fun year!
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
DOB - Speaking of backups for Chipper, I see that Betemit signed a modest contract with the Yankees again. He was a productive back-up with Atlanta before being traded to the Dodgers where he had some problems. Also a clubhouse and fan favorite with the Braves. Wouldn’t he be a good fit again if they could get him for a non-pitching prospect?
By flange1
January 21, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
DOB,
WHile I am not too thrilled with Hinske or McPherson, do you see the potential for the Braves making a move for a Wes Helms Aaron Boone or Ty Wiggenton type of guy that can back up 1B and 3B? Again, not fixating on either of those guys, but that type of player?
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Betemit, 2006/2007 combined: 696 plate appearances, 82 runs, 35 doubles, 32 homers, 103 RBIs, 74 walks, .329 OBP, .463 SLG, .792 OPS
Frenchy, 2007: 696 plate appearances, 84 runs, 40 doubles, 19 homers, 105 RBIs, 42 walks, .338 OBP, .444 SLG, .782 OPS
By TennesseePaul
January 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
The TV show. Sheeeesh I was way off. I haven’t seen the show. I’ve got no Tivo so TV is a hard one to keep up with. I keep meaning to pick one of those up though. I’ll check into it after I figure out MLB Extra Innings for the coming season.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Betemit, 2006/2007, RISP: 203 plate appearances, 7 doubles, 10 homers, 74 RBIs, 31 walks, .388 OBP, .506 SLG
Frenchy, 2007, RISP: 208 plate appearances, 16 doubles, 6 homers, 89 RBIs, 18 walks, .389 OBP, .527 SLG
By DAP
January 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
An inconvenient truth youre right, man. betemit is a good player with limited playing time. that IS your point, right? i think most people here agree that betemit is a pretty good player.
By JerseyGil
January 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
I’m with you LEW…i think ours future look prety sunshine…Mr.Wren doing an excellent job…Tex will be sign longterm…to all of you pesimistin the blog shame of all of you…Ours team been upgrade this year. And Aridondackdave…you don’t know Chipper get. i like to have 9 chipper jones in my team any time.
By mo in the boonies
January 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Looks like Mrs Manning’s baby boy became a man last night! But poor Archie couldn’t bear to watch half the game. I think the Packers may have played better, if they hadn’t tried so hard to be macho by not wearing long sleeves. That was just stupid in that weather. And those idiot girls in the bikinis!
By timmythebrave
January 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
You should read the book Into the wild. It is a quick read that will stick with you. It’s the same author that wrote into thin air about the tragedy on mount everest. I didn’t get to see it in theatres so I’ll have to wait until it comes out on video. I have seen no evidence that Chipper ever did steroids or HGH so I am going to give him the benefit of doubt. I gave the benefit of doubt to Clemens until I saw him try to say he had never done steroids. What a liar!! I know a liar when I see and hear one. Mccann is one of the best new catchers in the game(2 all star games)and I am glad they signed him to a long term deal. I am not going to say he will or won’t be here at 30. For the Murphy’s that they let go they also have the Chipper’s and Smoltz’s that have played well into there 30’s. Face up. No one knows if he will be here at 30 much less what skills he still will have so it is kind of silly to have a week long argument about it. I think Tex will sign with the Braves mainly because his wife likes living in the burbs and face it; if the wife wants something it usually happens. Just my 2 cents. Go Braves!
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil - Couldn’t agree more on Chipper… did you think I suggested otherwise??? I was mentioning Betemit for back-up, nothing else.
By McFann
January 21, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Mccann is one of the best new catchers in the game(2 all star games)and I am glad they signed him to a long term deal.
Oh, so true, timmythebrave. Oh so true.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit, career at home: .303 AVG, .387 OBP, .483 SLG, .870 OPS
Frenchy, career at home: .291 AVG, .340 OBP, .491 SLG, .831 OPS
By timmythebrave
January 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Just because not many catchers have produced at 30 and over does not mean that Mccann won’t. 3 years ago you could have said that Smoltz won’t become a great starter because no one had been a starter and a closer and gone back to a starter and been successfull. You then could have backed it up because no one could name any one that had done it and you would have “proven yourself right”. Except you would have been wrong! Don’t doubt the Braves.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Neither Frenchy nor McCann will be Braves when they are thirtysomethings. By then, they will want money. The Braves will pretend they have none. New owners will promise many millions more. Then the new owners will immediately regret saying that, claiming it to be off the cuff musings of a windbag. When Frenchy and McCann leave, Braves fans won’t care. Braves fans will trash them on the way out the door. If the Braves offer an inferior contract, the fans will label Frenchy and McCann traitors for leaving. There will be new unaccomplished minor leaguers and stopgaps that the Braves fans deludes themselves into believing are better options than both Frenchy and McCann. Frenchy and McCann will then bounce around from team to team, ending their careers rather sadly. As Seinfeld said, we root for laundry, not teams, and certainly not players.
By Hammy the Brave
January 21, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the answers, maybe I was “scraping the bottom of the barrel”, but I was trying to improve the bench cheaply. If we could trade for Betemit again, or any other power option, then I would consider it a vast upgrade.
The “bigger picture” I’m trying to portray is to try as closely as possible to have Chipper’s backup mimic his production/power, and not just put a “glove” at 3B, which I consider Infante. And yes, I would like to trade Thorman, because I don’t know that he will do well in a bench situation, given his youth and type of swing. Will Bobby consider playing Thorman in LF/RF also, especially if B. Jones doesn’t make the team this spring? If not, then Thorman won’t be versatile enough to be a bench player on a team running short on bench strength anyway.
I feel great about having Infante for middle IF and some CF, maybe Lilibridge for CF backup and some IF, and hopefully Lopez at catcher.
Do you think the trade of Aybar possibly opens a spot for B. Pena,(1B,3B,LF, RF and 3rd catcher)if he’s ok defensively at these positions? Then the 5th bench player could be a real power option to backup 3B(and 1B/OF). This way the bench would more deeply cover our most vulnerable(injury) positions: CF, 3B and catcher.
Answer at your leisure,
Hammy the Brave
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
DOB - just got back from seeing “Atonement.” i know that you really liked it and said it was one of your favorites for the year, but man, i was way disappointed. it was boring, long, the ending was bad, and there was a period of about 20 minutes three-quarters of the way through that just dragged on and on. i think that it had some amazing visuals and great cinematography — everything in the movie looked awesome, the costumes were good, the sets were great, but in my opinion that didn’t help to enhance the storyline and plot. to me, they sacrificed the story for the sake of making it look great (which they succeeded in doing).
i also think that keira knightly and james mcavoy both gave strong performances, and i also think the message of the movie is a strong one (what’s done cannot be undone, we live with our mistakes). that said, despite the performances, the asthetic value and the message, i didn’t like this film. just my opinion, and i know it’s different than yours, which is fine. i won’t be surprised if it’s nominated for best picture, though personally i don’t think it belongs in that category.
By Efrim
January 21, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Looks like Dotel will sign with the White Sox for 2 years and 11 million. I’m betting for 70 total innings over the next two years for him. That’s a lot of money for someone who is far from a sure thing.
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
David,
I dont know if you had heard anything, or if someone already mentioned it, but This mnorning on XM Buck and Charley Steiner talked to Bobby and he mentioned that they signed him for 2 years. Do you know anything about that?
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
David,
I dont know if you had heard anything, or if someone already mentioned it, but This mnorning on XM Buck and Charley Steiner talked to Bobby and he mentioned that they signed him Soriano… for 2 years. Do you know anything about that?
By Bryan
January 21, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Daybed,
thank god you put that review up - now i can tell Danielle “I read online it wasn’t that good” so we can go see “There will be blood” …
Speaking of there will be blood, have you guys seen this trailer for the movie [Teeth]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K0OS4gCpos) !!!!
This is the scariest movie ever made!
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Bryan from Kansas — was he saying that they recently signed him for 2 years, so that he’d stay until 2010? i think that they signed him to a 2-year contract before spring training last year, with 2008 being the final of the 2.
By Daybed Wamoe
January 21, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Bryan from Kansas - i don’t know if my last post will show up or not, i hope it doesn’t because man do i look like an idiot. i completely missed the “Soriano” part of your post. my bad, sorry.
Bryan (other Bryan) — yeah, tell Danielle that it sucked blows. i wish that “there will be blood” was playing in athens, but not yet. hopefully there will be blood in athens this weekend!
By McFann
January 21, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
timmythebrave, you make a lot of sense, man. Now, as for that Inconvenient Blogger, I gotta ball that dude out BIG TIME.
You’re prob’ly just makin’ this up to make people mad. I don’t think you really believe what you’re typing, do you? But part of it might be true: Frenchy might get money-hungry when he gets older. Could be now, actually, and that’s why he has no contract yet, but I don’t think so. But I really don’t think McCann will be drooling for dollars. He doesn’t think enough of himself to go around touting that he should make the big bucks.
I don’t know about other people, but I don’t just “root for laundry”. If the Braves traded McCann to some other team, I’d still be a Braves fan (not as big of a fan), but I’d root for McCann just as much as I do now. I might not necessarily root for that team (especially if it was New York, Philadelphia, Arizona, Boston…), but I’d still root for him.
Suffice to say, your whole paragraph was bunk.
By MGL
January 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Daybed - If they signed him to a two year last year, he would not be in the arbitration mix this year.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
MGL - yeah, you’re right. i thought that he meant that they signed Bobby to a two-year extension, not Soriano. he said, “talked to Bobby and he mentioned that they signed him Soriano… for 2 years.” if you read over Soriano (which i did), then it sounds like they signed bobby for two years, which is what i thought he was saying. my bad.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
January 21, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Hey folks, Enjoy what you have while you have it, you never really know how long a player is going to be around. A freak injury, money, family problems, personality conflicts, change in ownership. All of those things and more can happen to change the course of a player’s career.
After all, who would have thought the Marlins would blow their team up twice after winning World Series.?
By Anders
January 21, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
*The Braves can only hope Teixeira also makes it clear to Boras that he’s not necessarily out to get every possible dollar he can on the free-agent market, that if offers are close to equal, the former Georgia Tech star would like to stay in Atlanta with his Georgia-native wife for many seasons to come.
Because if he’s out to simply get the biggest possible contract, well, you gotta think the Yankees and at least a couple other teams will offer more than the Braves — perhaps a great deal more.*
Been away a while - you know, important clients and all. Come back to read nothing’s changed on this blog. Do you guys ever expect to pay full price for anyone? Every single guy has a home town discount attached to him or some other team paying part of the contract. You don’t see this much wheeling and dealing on 47th street in NYC!
By OrlandoFan
January 21, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, I was thinking about that movie just the other day. I can’t believe it’s that old, but it was a really good sports movie that played on the concept of what UCLA was sort of like in its day. I think that was what they were after, though I don’t think John Wooden would’ve been so overt. Not as slick or powerful as Blue Chips, but it had some character. And Ms. O’Toole.
By Metropolitan Man
January 21, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
So have you guys figured out which team you are going to support. With 2 teams being so close together in distance and talent, somebody is going to lose out. I suggest the AAA team because the tickets should be cheaper and you wouldnt have to worry about not winning the division again. It also should bring solace knowing that you had your chance to make a dynasty and instead you made suckers out of your fans. No more playoff appearances, no more fans, no more money, just second rate AAA material…..and I mean all of this in the nicest way.
LETS GO METS!!! WAY TO GO BIG BLUE!!!
By Bryan
January 21, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
DAMM!!!
Teeth !!!!
There will be blood in athens this weekend regardless …
By Mr J
January 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
Anders,
A serious question for you. Where do you live? The New York metropolitan area? In the city? Are you an ex-pat living elsewhere now? Just curious about your perspective.
I think the Braves are not unreasonable to ask for a “discount” in many cases. “Full Price” is usally the New York bid, and you’ve got to understand that its just not as expensive to live around Atlanta as it is in NY. The tax advantages alone are significant for someone making millions of dollars in salary, not to mention certain quality of life issues (all subjective, I grant you). Life in the city is exciting and fun for a while, but its not everyone’s cup of tea, especially over the long haul.
I know you have issues with Tom Glavine, but whatever he is, he’s no fool. If you could ask him, he might tell you all about it.
By The real truth on Betemit
January 21, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
After being traded from Atlanta… In 2006 with the Dogers he hit .241/306/437 with 9 Hrs, 7 2bs in 174 ABs. In 2007 for the Dogers he hit.231/359/474, with 10 HRs and 8 2bs in 156 ABs. Then with the Yankees in 2007 he went .226/278/417, with 4 HRs and 4 2bs in 84 ABs. Frenchy, 2007: I see 642 not 696 plate appearances, .293/338/444 84 runs, 40 doubles, 19 homers, 105 RBIs, 42 walks, .782 OPS … oh and a gold glove.
Ever since Betemit left Atlanta, he has not done well…. let’s move on unless you think Betemit is a difference maker, I don’t.
By ncscoots
January 21, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
DOB, The Wire seems ready to ramp it up a notch. Omar headin’ back to the ‘hood, and he be most beaucoup PO’d. Hide the women, children, and corner kings, I’m thinking.
Caught up on DVDs this weekend, too, with 3:10 and Eastern Promises. Mahn-ster flicks both.
It ain’t baseball, but it’ll do.
By AdirondackDave
January 21, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Metroman — You’re an idiot… but thanks for your last post which saves us the trouble once again of proving it.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Tex will not sign with the Braves.Stop the delusions of grandeur. Instead of demanding that he sign for less, demand the Braves sign Tex for more. Otherwise, he is not going to be a Brave in 2009. You sound like naive children believing he will sign for less than the market fairly bears. Dude is a goner. Get used to that reality. Tex is good but he is not a future Hall of Famer or anything. And Tex is not a true Brave anyway, so who cares if he believes the Braves are cheap and don’t pay their players what they deserve and he leaves. Treat Tex like the prostitute he wants his pimp Scott Boras to make him.
By Metropolitan Man
January 21, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
NYORKER: I just moved here from NY and need to root for the local baseball team….any sugestions????
Native: Ummm, shooot, let me see. Uhhh, you can root for that Gwinnett team, they seem sturdy. Then we have dat other team you know, you know,……dang it what did we call them???
NYorker: Well I thought I would root for the local team but after your assessment I think I will stick with the METS. You know NY has 2 (two) professional baseball team and minor league affiliats in 1 (one) city.
Native: Get outta here. Really now. Y’all can afford all that city stuff……I mean no city can afford 2 MLB teams and minor league affiliates…..can they?
NYORKER: Well I’m just used to having choices and can see that here I will have to chose MLB or AAA….hmmmmmm. Alright, history tells me if I want a playoff team root MLB. If I want championships (more than 1) then get the hell out of dodge!!!
Native: Thats what I have been trying to tell these transplants since day 1, the good years are gone. Welcome back to the 80’s, now if we can just get those old jerseys out of the closet, we can fit the bill again like we always have.
NYORKER: And what Bill is that???
NATIVE: We can finally leave the braves alone, and represent our AAA. They cant be any worse and I can be a walk on with them!!!
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Sorry Guys about the Soriano slip up….I should be more careful when submitting a post….
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Sorry Guys about the Soriano slip up….I should be more careful when submitting a post….
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
The real truth needs to learn the difference between plate appearances and at bats.
Trash Betemit as much as you want, but the truth is his stats over the last 2 years have been on par with Fancouer. Unless you are willing to trash Frenchy in the same manner, then don’t trash Betemit for matching the golden child in performance.
As for the Gold Glove, does anyone really believe Frenchy is a Gold Glover?
He is a Golden Armer but not a Golden Glover.
Still far too many bad reads, poor jumps, overaggression, and poor footwork on liners and grounders to the outfield.
His arm got him a gold glove, not his actual glovework.
If the Braves thought of him as a true Gold Glover, he would be playing center next season.
By Metropolitan Man
January 21, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
AdirondackDave: Your opinion will be reviewed. However attacking the messanger will get you nowhere. Try addressing Booby, Chumper, Smolzt, or Wren. Your post was so creative that this was all I could muster in a response.
By Metropolitan Man
January 21, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Heres a link to some funny baseball related stuff that is not, I repeat not ANTI-Braves.
Enjoy, Us METS fans sure are: http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BBA2E41C8C633726C7E5E821AD3C5FD55F&s_cid=GGL%7CCAMP028Original+Structure+-+Content%7CADGP023Roger+Clemens+-+Content%7CKWRD008Baseball&c1=Original+Structure+-+Content&c2=Google&c3=Roger+Clemens+-+Content&c4=Baseball
By nOLIE
January 21, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Right now on Chipper Jones’ official website he lists himself as 230 pounds.
By Amber
January 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Curt
Anyone read the article on SI.com about the the 10 players you can trust in this steroid era?
Thanks for this little nugget, Curt. I knew there was a reason I was wading through drivel and petty bickering.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Hammy, no I don’t really think trading Aybar opens anything for B. Pena. It might, but I don’t think so, personally. I think it opens a spot for Prado or Lillibridge, and Infante’s injury opens a spot for the other of those two, at least to begin the season.
How many bench guys you think they’re carrying? I think you might have one too many. He will go with 12 pitchers.
By David O'Brien
January 21, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
Scoots, glad you got to see Eastern Promises. People don’t know what they’re missing out on, who don’t see that movie. Great movie, superb acting by Viggo….
Yeah, Bryan, they did sign him for two years — last April. For last season and this coming one….
INCONVENIENT TRUTH: You posted a lot of Betemit’s and Francoeur’s stats, but left out select ones. Wonder why. Why not road numbers. Or numbers vs. lefties? Perhaps it was inconvenient for you?
I’ll help:
Career road:
Francoeur .269 (212-for-788), 45 doubles, 25 homers, 103 RBI, .297 OBP, .437 slugging.
Betemit .226 (125-for-509), 24 doubles, 21 homers, 73 RBI, .288 OBP, .405 slugging.
Career in close-and-late situations:
Francoeur .304 (72-for-207) with 18 doubles, 11 homers, 53 RBI, .343 OBP, .536 slugging
Betemit: .241 (38-for-158) with 6 doubles, 7 homers, .346 OBP, .424 slugging
Career vs. lefties:
Francoeur .317 (144-for-442) with 23 homers, 77 strikeouts, .361 OBP, .545 slugging.
Betemit .231 (48-for-207) with five homers, 66 strikeouts, .281 OBP, .353 slugging.
(Gee, I can’t imagine why anyone would prefer to use Betemit as a platoon player).
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 21, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Betemit, 2006/2007 combined: 696 plate appearances, 82 runs, 35 doubles, 32 homers, 103 RBIs, 74 walks, .329 OBP, .463 SLG, .792 OPS
Frenchy, 2007: 696 plate appearances, 84 runs, 40 doubles, 19 homers, 105 RBIs, 42 walks, .338 OBP, .444 SLG, .782 OPS
Betemit, 2006/2007, RISP: 203 plate appearances, 7 doubles, 10 homers, 74 RBIs, 31 walks, .388 OBP, .506 SLG
Frenchy, 2007, RISP: 208 plate appearances, 16 doubles, 6 homers, 89 RBIs, 18 walks, .389 OBP, .527 SLG
Betemit, as MLB shortstop: 159 plate appearances, .315 AVG, .365 OBP, .486 SLG
Yunel Escobar, as MLB shortstop: 172 plate appearances, .310 AVG, .368 OBP, .426 SLG
Wilson Betemit, career at home: .303 AVG, .387 OBP, .483 SLG, .870 OPS
Frenchy, career at home: .291 AVG, .340 OBP, .491 SLG, .831 OPS
Betemit, career against righties: .268 AVG, .347 OBP, .464 SLG, .811 OPS
Frenchy, career against righties: .265 AVG, .302 OBP, .431 SLG, .733 OPS
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
not to piggy-back on what you’re saying about Eastern Promises, but that flick was awesome. i doubt it’ll get a best picture nod tomorrow morning, but i do think that viggo deserves a best actor nomination. that sauna scene was intense, man.
i also read today that viggo will be portraying the father in the movie version of cormac mccarthy’s “the road.”
By Thrillhouse44
January 21, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Hey guys, I’m looking for a little information here and I hope someone can help. The Girl and I are looking to venture to Spring Training over Easter weekend. The Braves are at “home” Friday, March 21. However, they’re away against Washington on Saturday, March 22. How far away is the Nats’ home site? Thanks in advance.
By brian
January 21, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
DOB - who is more tradeable - Pena or Thorman? I would expect one or the other to be traded by opening day.
Did Thorman play any winter ball? He was in such a funk (almost a Langy funk) that I hope he was able to find his swing again and gain some confidence. I like Thorman - he plays hard but unfortunately he played and tried too hard. The worse he hit the harder he pressed and kept going downhill. He played a great Paul Bunyon last year swinging the big axe. Unfortunately he was supposed to be hitting the baseball
By brian
January 21, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
DOB - who is more tradeable - Pena or Thorman? I would expect one or the other to be traded by opening day.
Did Thorman play any winter ball? He was in such a funk (almost a Langy funk) that I hope he was able to find his swing again and gain some confidence. I like Thorman - he plays hard but unfortunately he played and tried too hard. The worse he hit the harder he pressed and kept going downhill. He played a great Paul Bunyon last year swinging the big axe. Unfortunately he was supposed to be hitting the baseball
By Shaun
January 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Anyone see this analysis of the Marte-Renteria trade two years after the fact? Very interesting stuff.
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
That is weird, David. The show was this morning and wasnt an old one. It was at the most recent scouts dinner. As a matter of fact, Bobby talked about the aquisition of Mark Kotsay, so I know it is recent.
By Bryan from Kansas( Go KU )
January 21, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
That is weird, David. The show was this morning and wasnt an old one. It was at the most recent scouts dinner. As a matter of fact, Bobby talked about the aquisition of Mark Kotsay, so I know it is recent.
By Overlord
January 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
For the one that said things dont change around here, you are right. There is a difference in between atlanta and new york. Lots of players make home discounts to the braves because the love to be in braves uniform. The other side of the coin… muts and yankees have to offer all the money in the world and then some, cause thats the only way you get stars to put on your uniforms. And sometimes, lots of times, not even money is enough to make the trick. Shame………..
By The truth about Betemit
January 21, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
OK An Inconvenient Truth… I’ll go learn about PAs and ABs, but please get over the Betemit trade. I didn’t trash him, I simply stated that since he was traded from the Braves he hasn’t done very well.
Francour Is younger(2 yrs), Cheaper, and better… do you agree? I think Frenchy needs to improve, especially his OBP. But, how can you trash a gold glove right fielder, by stating the braves would be put him in center if he was that good. That doesn’t make sense. Francouer would not win a gold glove in CF, He did win one in RF.
And your comment…“As for the Gold Glove, does anyone really believe Frenchy is a Gold Glover?” Well the managers and coaches in Major League Baseball believed he was a gold glover, they are the ones who voted for him to get the award. I’ll make a big assumption here, I’m guessing these major league coaches and managers probably have more experience in evaluating major league talent, as most of them have done it for many years.
A misconception is that writers vote for Gold Gloves. They do not. Managers and coaches do. And they cannot vote for players on their own team.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
January 21, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
N8:
Great post earlier on salaries, per start, per game, per home run, per win breakdown. Really puts into perspective how far out of sight, and into the realm of ridiculousness, the whole salary structure has gotten. We have Marvin Miller, Don Fehr, Bora$$, et al to thank. And anyone who thinks that it is just TV money paying for these outlandish salaries needs a reality check. Given the fact that the most expensive ticket (box seats, they didn’t have “luxury boxes” back then) in the late seventies, on through the 80’s, was $12 - $16 per game, and now is through the roof (not to mention a $6.00 beer, $4.00 hot dog, etc, speaks volumes.
DOB:
Couple of things. First, I feel sure you have mentioned this in the last month or two (sorry, haven’t been reading the reader’s post, just your main column/blog), but the Johnny Cash Show DVD is awesome. Anyone who has not seen this, and is a fan of music (rock, blues, jazz, country and/or pop) needs to see this. Buy it ($30 on Amazon) or rent it when it hits the stores. This is a huge slice of Americana and music history on 4 1/2 hours of DVD.
Second, I’m coming down for spring training for the first time in my 50 years. Do you recommend early, middling or later spring training, as far as being able to see the everyday players during the season?
Thanks for the informative posts, and looking forward to a great season. Hope newspapers don’t get like the sports teams and go looking for free agent talent. Otherwise, you’ll be blogging in New York or LA, because the small market can’t afford you. God forbid Bora$$ set his sights on representing “ink stained wretches” (as I have seen you fondly/jokingly refer to you and your brethren). If so, the price of a newspaper will go to $5.00.
By Metropolitan Man
January 21, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
No, you offer/give a hometown discount because you are broke and have financial restraints. NY has the money to splurge and does. If you had the funds, you would spend for what you consider the best.
By Avery
January 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Comparing Francoeur with Wilson Betemit? What a laugher. The ceiling for Francoeur is extremely high. He’s a five-tool ballplayer. He has incredible makeup. Betemit will forever be a journeyman. He’s a very good ballplayer. Sorry, but that’s reality.
By ColoradoBravesFan
January 21, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
DOB, A poster on another site asked this question and I hope you might know the answer. Why wasn’t Brian McCann’s long term contract considered the record(instead of Sizemore’s) for a person with less than 2 yrs of service time? Was it the structure? I thought B-Mac had less than 2 years when he signed for a six-year, $27.8 million contract extension that included a $1 million signing bonus.
This was discussed on ESPN.com. The Rockies’ contract with Troy Tulowitzki, according to a major-league source, will be worth $31 million over six years — a significant jump over the Indians’ six-year, $23.45 million deal with Grady Sizemore, the previous record for a player with less than two years of service time.
Go Braves….
By N8
January 21, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Convenient Truth If the Braves offered Francoeur to the Yankees even up for Betemit, I wonder how long it would take Hank Steinbrenner to soil himself.
My guess is the deal would never happen because Cashman would have a frickin stroke (due to immediate laughter), and would never make it to the Boss’s office to tell him about the deal.
Hell while were at it, lets trade Smoltz for Pettitte.
I don’t really want Andy, but we could use the contents of his gym bag to help “boost” some of our players ability to “be there” for their teammates.
That was funny though. Keep the humor coming.
By Roman Gal
January 21, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
I think it finally hit me that Renteria won’t be playing for the Braves next year. Nevertheless, I found an interview from Baseball America with Jair Jurjjens. It’s not new, but I don’t think it’s been posted. I’m excited to see him pitch.
CLICK HERE!!
By Mike S
January 22, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this
Thanks RomanGal. I’m also excited to see JJ pitch. I think he’s going to be a very good ML pitcher immediately.
I thought it was funny how he referenced Smoltzie here. Ironic that he’ll be his teammate, just a year later…
“BA: How would you describe your delivery? I assume you don’t turn your back on hitters like Luis Tiant used to do?
JJ: No, but my delivery is pretty old-fashioned. I’m a little like John Smoltz in that I put my hands up over my head when I wind up. Keeping your balance is a big part of pitching, and I used to lean forward too much. That helps me slow down.”
By Roman Gal
January 22, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Yeah Mike S…I was saw that before I saw when it was written and was shocked that he mentioned him before he was traded. But hey, if he compares to Smoltzy that’s good news!
Could somebody explain what a “slurve” is?
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this
Scalp ‘Em, that Cash DVD has been much discussed here, but never too much. It’s terrific. My favorite is Cash playing with Carl Perkins and Clapton/Derek and the Dominoes, but there’s so much great stuff, including Waylon, Dylan, Charlie Pride … on and on….
Bryan, I know it wasn’t an old one. But I’m gonna assume Bobby said he signed a two-year contract, which would be correct — he signed it last April, and it runs through 2008. Unless he’s signed another and the Braves haven’t bothered to announce it, which is doubtful.
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this
Roman Gal, it’s a pitch that’s a cross between a slider and curveball, as the name implies.
By Roman Gal
January 22, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
DOB, I figured that was what it was. I just can’t seem to get a picture of what it looks like. Thanks anyways.
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 22, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this
Like O’Brien said , it’s combination of both a slider and curveball. Pitchers release it like a curve and it breaks down and away from right handed hitters in a big , flat sweeping curve.
Basically , it’s a slider thrown at curveball velocity. It is designed to look like a slider out of the pitcher’s hand , but then fools the hitter by taking longer to reach the plate than the typical hard low 90’s slider.
The slurve is somewhat of a trick pitch and only effective when used sparingly.
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 22, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
Roman Gal , here are some pitch Diagrams.
http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/
By Roman Gal
January 22, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this
Thanks Coach. Opposite of the screwball. Vertical and lateral.
I had never heard of the “palm ball.” It doesn’t seem like a very good pitch, though.
By nOLIE
January 22, 2008 3:24 AM | Link to this
Did Thorman play any winter ball? He was in such a funk (almost a Langy funk) that I hope he was able to find his swing again and gain some confidence.brian
yeah, he was in a Grand Funk and should be shipped off on some Railroad ASAP
By krakatoa
January 22, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this
Actually Coach, a Slurve is gripped a bit differently than a curve. At least I did. Bob Shaw had a great pitching book that showed correct way to do it. http://www.ehow.com/how2051183throw-a-slurve.html
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 22, 2008 3:51 AM | Link to this
No problem , Roman Gal. Speaking of the screwball , Does anybody even throw it anymore ? I haven’t seen a really good one since Fernando Valenzuela retired.
Wow , a Grand Funk Railroad reference. Gotta get the polyester and bell bottoms out of the closet and get my groove on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW3nPqPPBDw
By Mike S
January 22, 2008 4:43 AM | Link to this
I had never heard of the “palm ball.” It doesn’t seem like a very good pitch, though.
Roman Gal, Joe Boever use to throw a palm ball back in the 80’s for the Bravos. Your assessment of the palmball is probably pretty accurate; I don’t think it helped him pitch as well as a few months on a treadmill might have. I remember him having a “Wickman-like” build.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 22, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
the oscar nominations are out…
Picture: atonement, juno, michael clayton, no country, there will be blood
Actor: george clooney (michael clayton), daniel day-lewis (blood), johnny depp (sweeney todd), tommy lee jones (no country), viggo mortensen (eastern promises)
Actress: cate blanchett (elizabeth), julie christie (away from her), marion cotillard (mome, la), laura linney (savages), ellen page (juno)
Supporting Actor: casey affleck (jesse james), javier bardem (no country), phillip seymour hoffman (charlie wilson’s war), hal holbrook (into the wild), tom wilkinson (michael clayton)
Supporting Actress: cate blanchett (i’m not there), ruby dee (american gangster), saorise ronan (atonement), amy ryan (gone baby gone), tilda swinton (michael clayton)
Director: PT Anderson (blood), Coen Brothers (no country), Tony Gilroy (michael clayton), jason reitman (juno), julian schnabel (the diving bell and butterfly)
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
A misconception is that writers vote for Gold Gloves. They do not. Managers and coaches do. And they cannot vote for players on their own team.
MiStEr PaLmErI wOn A gOlD gLoVe At FiRsT. mIsTeR pAlMeRi WaS a Dh.
DErEK jeTer & BERnie wilLIAMS possESS goLD gloVES.
neither ARE gold GLOVERS.
Dlog SevolG naem gnihton.
Frenchy IS not A Golden GLOVER. He IS a GOLDEN Armer. IF he WAS a GOOD fielder, HE would BE playing CENTER.
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
An Inconvenient Truth, Gold Gloves are given to three outfielders instead of one rightfielder, one centerfielder and one leftfielder. If they gave it to an outfielder at each position, I think Francoeur would clearly be deserving.
By BB FAN
January 22, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeur is one of the best defensive rightfielders in baseball. Just because the Braves are not moving him to center field does not mean he is not a gold glove outfielder.
Why would the Braves move a gold glove rightfielder to center when they have a gold glove caliber centerfielder in Jordan Schafer coming up in late 2008 or 2009? It would not make sense to move Francoeur for one year.
The Braves were able to find a stop gap centerfielder for 2008 and then have Schafer for 2009. That way, they can keep their gold glove rightfielder in rightfield!
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Metro man, I love how half of Atlanta is made up of new yorkers that talk garbage about Atlanta. If it so bad why move here? Why are there few Atlantans moving to NY? I’m glad that you think throwing $150-200 million to get 2nd place in your division is how to run a club. (The Yankees and Mets belong in the same city together) We can expect the Mets to be the choke artists and losers for years to come if they keep running their club like that.
By DAP
January 22, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
inconvienient truth your opinion on gold gloves is kind of moronic.
a gold glove is an award for defense, not for catching the ball. frenchy’s assists are probably a big reason he was given a gold glove, and thats logical. just realize that a gold glove is an award for DEFENSE, not for how well you catch to ball or how pretty it looks when you do so.
also,if jeter and bernie have gold gloves, then they are gold glovers and thats a fact. even if you dont think they deserve it.
i dont think wright deserved a gold glove, but its not a matter of opinion that he is a gold glove third baseman.
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Betemit: .260/.332/.439, 97 OPS+ through age 25.
Francoeur: .280/.319/.463, 100 OPS+ through age 23.
Pretty close but you have to take into account that Francoeur is younger and scouts generally agree that he has a much higher ceiling.
Francoeur’s top comparables through age 23: Greg Luzinski, Jeff Burroughs and Jack Clark—all solid players; and Francoeur clearly has more talent and athletic ability than any of those guys.
Betemit’s top comparables through age 25: Kelly Johnson, Jeff Kent and Khalil Greene. That’s a pretty good list, too. But most of them are middle infielders and Betemit’s best position is really thirdbase—so Betemit is a cornerinfielder that hits like a good middle infielder.
I agree that Francoeur is slightly overrated by many but I still think he’s got a great shot at becoming a star. Betemit is a solid player but I don’t think he’s any more than that. I doubt he’ll hit enough as a thirdbaseman to be an All-Star there. And I doubt he has the athleticism and range to be an everyday shortstop or secondbaseman much less and All-Star at those positions.
By Renegator
January 22, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Metro Man:
You keep talking up all the money that the Muts have yet they haven’t made a single move in the off-season. What’s the deal? When are they going to start spending “all that money” that they have?
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
BB FAN, I agree Francoeur is a rightfielder. Don’t know who you are responding to but I hope you aren’t misunderstanding me.
I’m simply saying that if they gave Gold Gloves like they should (one to each outfield position instead of giving three to the outfield position no matter which position the outfielder plays), I believe there would be no doubt that Francoeur is a Gold Glover.
By David-ATL14
January 22, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
The “two year contract” comment from BC concerning Soriano has to be about the upcoming two years, he’s never been on a two year contract in the past.
In 2005 he was on a 1 year deal with the Mariners paying him 360K.
In 2006 he was on another 1 year deal paying him 450K.
Upon his arrival in ATL he signed a one year deal for the 2007 season avoiding arbitration and paying him 1.2M.
For the upcoming 2008 season he’s already exchanged arby figues with the team Soriano asking for 3.4M and the team countering with an offer of 2.4M.
Anything about a prospective two year deal has to be about the 2008-2009 seasons. Either than or Cox misspoke.
Can’t imagine he would misspeak to that extent.
All of the above contract info came from Cot’s baseball Contracts.
By DAP
January 22, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Shaun I agree that Francoeur is slightly overrated by many but I still think he’s got a great shot at becoming a star.
i think his great shot at becoming a star is why people get so excited about him, plus hes a great guy, the kind of person you want to see do well. anyways, he isnt overrated by me. i appreciate him for what he is, as well as what he could be, and i think hes a valuable piece to this team.
i also wish wilson betemit was on the team. i always like that guy, hed be a really great guy to have on our bench this year. switch hitter, has some power, and plays the whole infield. i wish we still had him, especially since all we have know from him is a minor league lefty. oh well.
By Anders
January 22, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Renegator I’ll answer for Metro Man. In case you haven’t noticed the Mets are still in the Santana hunt and since he’s not a local fella we’re gonna have to pay full price should they land him. Therefore, the Mets are holding about $22 mil/per year aside for him. Should that not work out I’m sure they’d be glad to give some of that to Tex next year when Delgado’s contract is up. Other than Santana there aren’t any viable options to spend their money on this off season. It’s certainly frustrating to have all that money and no where to spend it but surely not as frustrating as not having the money at all - wouldn’t you agree?
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Doomed, we are, to forever on the blog being subjected to surly Wilson Betemit fans, I guess; those fans who are unable to come to grips with the reality that WB is another high-ceiling prospect who failed to fulfill his promise, and became a scrub instead of a star. It happens every day, in every organization. He is no loss to the Braves.
By Lew
January 22, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Anders-If thew Mets have the other half of God’s money that the Yankees and Red Sox don’t have, then why, in the past two years, have they not spent any of it? Waiting to get Santana? Doubtful, Dude, because he is still under contract for this season, so anything they would spend on him would start next year with an extension-IF Omar was dumb enough to mortgage their entire future by trading away ALL of their almost ML ready prospects. Sorry, Dude, you and Metro Dude are disillusioned as always. Don’t have all that money. Don’t have a productive farm system and DO have an ancient team. You’re gone. One year and out, then twenty years of b!tch!ng about the Braves. Typical.
By flange1
January 22, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
More trash talk from the Metro Dude and Anders.
Typical Mets garbage.
Yeah yeah, we know you are still in on Santana, but what else have you done this off season? If you fail on Santana, is the fall back B. Colon and F. Garcia? They are both latin right?
They should be great additions to the Pedro, El Ducke, Sosa staff. Hope the injury bug doesn’t bite THAT group……
By McFann
January 22, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Hey, Inconvenient Blogger, I was typing to you!! You and uga have not responded!! (Though uga’s nowhere around at this time, so this is addressed to you, buster!!)
Again I’ll ask: You don’t really believe that hooey you typed at 4:43 PM yesterday, do you? Dude, that was insane. And what’s with the Betemit-Francoeur comparison, anyway?
By Renegator
January 22, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Anders:
Thanks for answering but I’m talking about this year. Not holding onto money for next year or the year after. The two names you mentioned (Tex & Santana) won’t be owed big money until next year.
Nice try - but no one is buying it - except Mets fans. Good luck on Santana - that ain’t happenin’…
By flange1
January 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Scoots
Your 11:01 is so true!
By DAP
January 22, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
anders It’s certainly frustrating to have all that money and no where to spend it but surely not as frustrating as not having the money at all - wouldn’t you agree?
do you think its more frustrating to have a sucky, old team with alot of money or a good, young team with not as much money?
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
The mets have not even been relevant since they had Doc Gooden, Daryl Strawberry, and Keith Hernandez so stay off our blogs. I know it is more exciting than talking about giving up one of your best pitchers and acquiring nobody that is the talk of the Mets town going on at your blog www.newyorkisagreatplacetovisitbutaterribleplacetolive.com
By Efrim
January 22, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Shaun
Well said at 10:26.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Doomed, we are, to forever on the blog being subjected to surly Wilson Betemit fans, I guess; those fans who are unable to come to grips with the reality that WB is another high-ceiling prospect who failed to fulfill his promise, and became a scrub instead of a star. It happens every day, in every organization. He is no loss to the Braves.
Same stats, but one is the golden child, the other is no loss to the Braves? What gives? Are tickets sold more important than performance? Girls want to French him, men want to be him, so all is forgivable.
Trading Betemit begot Aybar who begot Woodward who begot Infante whose injury begot unproven rookies. And none of them are better than Betemit.
When Prado is platooning with Kelly Johnson and filling in when Chipper goes down for a month, I will be in the fetal position shedding tears on the spilled milk that is Wilson Betemit.
Trading McBride begot Ledismal who begot Ring who begot Ohman who begot crappy Rays reliever. None of them are better than McBride.
Rearranging the furniture on the Titanic to suit the whim of the manager.
Long live the Cox cronies!
Long suffering will be the Braves fans with inferior benches and bullpens that end postseason dreams.
By DAP
January 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
scoots the betemit trade isnt a tragedy, but it didnt work out great. baez didnt help us win the division, and aybar wasnt able to do anything for us that betemit wouldnt have. we did get a draft pick for baez, right? so thats good, and we didnt have to pay aybar as much as betemit, so thats good, but still, the trade in retrospect doent seem like a great one. id like to have betemit again.
regenerator i think your right on santana. the twins are better off at this point hanging on to him and trying to win in ‘08, and if they are out of it, they can still get a desperate yankees, red sox, angels, or maybe even mets team to give them what ever they want in hopes it will give them the big boost.
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
McFann: Here’s a site that would love to have your input on the best young catcher in the game today… Only, McCann doesn’t seem to qualify. Might want to take it up with them though. I’m just the messanger.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
do you think its more frustrating to have a sucky, old team with alot of money or a good, young team with not as much money?
It sucks to have a sucky third place team with many millions more to be spent that is not spent except to give raises to members of the third place team.
It sucks to have the many millions more promise be later dismissed as the off the cuff musings of a windbag.
Does McGuirk’s false “many millions more” promise remind anyone of 41’s “Read my lips. No new taxes”?
It sucks to have an old, fragile pitching staff combined with unproven young players, a prostitute at first, a fragile old man at third, a fat lazy catcher, a broken back stopgap centerfielder, a neanderthal rightfielder, a stone gloved second baseman, and a moody shortstop.
It sucks to have a manager who is more concerned with having bench players as feeble as he was when he was a bench player instead of fielding the best possible team.
It sucks to finish in third 2 years in a row after getting bounced in the first round for what seemed like a decade and not have the owners truly try to improve the team.
It sucks when your biggest acquisition is the pitcher who got torched and lost the division for your biggest rival.
It sucks when your best pitcher is a forty something year old power pitcher who is the only power pitcher who has continued to NATURALLY be a power pitcher at such an advanced age. It won’t last forever.
It sucks to have fans who don’t demand more from their team. It sucks to have fans who go to games and don’t realize a game is being played. Too busy flirting and talking on cell phones. It sucks to have the stands taken over by fans of other teams - even in the playoffs.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
10Paul
Tell me—I just can’t go clicking on links—What is this site, and is it safe?
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
but still, the trade in retrospect doent seem like a great one. id like to have betemit again.
A trade of one scrub for another doesn’t exactly scream “We just traded for the pennant!”, no.
AIT’s “begots” actually make the original point when he says [Aybar, Woodward, Infante aren’t] better than Betemit.
Exactly. WB belongs in that same caliber of player…utility, role player, sub, scrub, whatever your name for it. Whether he’s measurably better than any OTHER of the species is debatable, as is also the position that one such player has more of an impact than most other such players.
Other than that, call me when Wilson can accumulate more than 300 plate appearances in a year with any semblance of productive offensive performance. Otherwise, the stats comparison of Betemit vs. Francoeur (or any other everyday player) is merely an exercise in numbers outside the scope of reality. Any similarity to actual performance is coincidental.
By MGL
January 22, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
An Inconvenient Truth - I’m sure it sucks to have your negative outlook.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
You shut up, Inconvenient Blogger!! I am so sick of you people and your stupid argument that McCann is a no-good, fat, lazy bum!! You’re all WRONG about that!! During the game he is not lazy!! And if you people knew anything about him you’d know that!! So he’s a little on the pudgy side, but he’s working out, you nerd-brains!! What more do you want??
Thanks for ruining my appetite, bozo.
By DAP
January 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
the article about mauer vs. martin is definitely remiss in leaving out mccann. heres a pragraph from it:
Over the last two years, he has been out-hit by Mauer, .324-.288, but Martin has more home runs (29-20), more RBIs (152-144) and more steals (31-15). Plus, Martin has been amazingly durable, playing 262 games to Mauer’s 211.
but they ignore the fact that over the last two year, mccann has hit .299, has 42 HR, 185 RBIs, and has caught 256 games. defensively, he is on par with these guys, and hes also a year younger than both of them.
Brian McCann definitely belongs in the conversation for the best young catcher in the game, and ESPN really screwed up by not even mentioning him.
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
DAP, what makes you think Johan would waive his no-trade July 31, when he would be a free agent just two months later?
Twins might wave that “we’ll just keep him” stick, but it’s a feeble branch. They HAVE to trade him before camp breaks; it’s their last chance to do so.
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
MCFANN…it is a link that talks about the best young catchers in the game. It mentions Joe Mauer from MN and Martin from the Dodgers but no mention of Mccann. If you look at stats I would take Mccann over Martin. Joe Mauer may be the best of the bunch but only time will tell
By flange1
January 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
An Inconvenient Truth,
Dude, it sounds like it sucks to be you! You don’t like the Braves and how the organization works? EASY answer for that,
START TO FOLLOW THE RED SOX…
Find me a team and an organization that has done better for the last 15 or so years and I will be their fan too.
It is easy to find fault with everything (see Anders and Metro Dude).
Quick fix, you don’t like it, leave!
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
McFann: Safe enough. It’s ESPN. The world wide leader in sports. Today they will be broadcasting across the world via the internet that McCann is NOT the top young catcher in the game. So, gather all your stats and head into battle McFann. You got a tough road ahead…
By DAP
January 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
inconvienient truth It sucks to have an old, fragile pitching staff (old, maybe smoltz and glavine, but not fragile. smoltz has proven to be very durable, and glavine has never been on the DL. huddy aint old, hes in his prime and also very durable, then we have two young guys in james and jurjens) combined with unproven young players (whos unproven? francouer? McCann? we arent playing anyone full time who isnt proven) , a prostitute at first (strong language), a fragile old man at third (still the best third baseman in the NL, 2nd in the majors only to Arod), a fat lazy catcher as established, arguably the best young catcher in the game) , a broken back stopgap centerfielder (flase), a neanderthal rightfielder (23 year old gold glovers constantly making strides in his game) , a stone gloved second baseman (projected to be one of the best 2nd baseman in the game for years to come), and a moody shortstop. whats your point here?)
inconvenient truth, you now are down to zero credibility.
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Trading Betemit begot Aybar who begot Woodward who begot Infante whose injury begot unproven rookies. And none of them are better than Betemit.
Hmm…didn’t know Aybar was traded for Woodward and Woodward for Infante. That isn’t the way it worked and that’s a pretty simplistic analysis of that trade.
When Prado is platooning with Kelly Johnson and filling in when Chipper goes down for a month, I will be in the fetal position shedding tears on the spilled milk that is Wilson Betemit.
I don’t know if anyone will be platooning with Kelly Johnson. Maybe Lillibridge if he impresses this Spring. And when Chipper goes down, the Braves have plenty of offense at other position and guys capable of not costing the Braves runs and wins. It is not worth paying an average player $1 million-plus just in case an infielder goes down for a good chunk of the season. That’s like paying as much for insurance as for your car or for your home. Yes, teams should cover themselves and be prepared for injuries but not at the expense of flexibility.
By DAP
January 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
scoots the way ive understood the situation is that santana will waive his no trade clause this off-season if he gets an extension. if he gets offered an extension to go along with a trade at mid-season, and the offer is a good one, i dont see why he wouldnt go ahead and take it, just like he would now. so no, its not the twins last chance to trade him.
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Here you go McFann:
Now, it must also be mentioned that these are Mauer’s season totals and not his catching totals. He DH’s on occassion. As a catcher he is slightly below his average marks… slightly.
By ssiscribe
January 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Inconvenient Truth: Perhaps the silliest post on here in quite some time. The aging pitching staff contains three starters (Hudson, James, Jurrjens) age 32 or younger, and 10 of the top 12 bullpen candidates are under 30 years old.
Tex a prostitute? Why is that? Has he come out and demanded $30 million a year? No. He’s a switch-hitting, Gold Glove winning first baseman who is entering the prime of an already successful career. He deserves a $20 million, six-year deal and I think the Braves have a better than average shot of making it happen.
Unproven players? Who, Inconvenient Truth? Anderson? Schafer? Brandon Jones? Lillibridge? None of those four are starting full-time at the major league level to start the season; odds are two or three of those guys won’t even make the big-league club to start the season.
That fragile old man at third is coming off perhaps his best season yet. Yes, he’s injury prone. Yes, he nearly won the freaking batting crown last year. Wake up, dude!
The fat, lazy catcher is one of the best young backstops in the game, good enough for the Braves to lock him up at a bargain price for the next five years.
The broken back stopgap center fielder is just that: a stopgap answer, yet one who is a career .282 hitter who has topped 10-plus outfield assists six times in his career. Would you rather have given up two prospects for Coco Crisp, or sign Corey Patterson to a three-year deal with Schafer waiting in the wings? Come on, use your brain, pal!
A neanderthal right fielder? Francoeur has won a Gold Glove and is regarded as one of the best young outfielders in the game. Give me a freaking break, dude.
A stone gloved second baseman? Whatever. KJ played very good defense in his FIRST YEAR playing the position.
A moody shortstop? Escobar had some attitude issues in the minors, but NONE of that happened in 2007, either at Richmond or in Atlanta.
Does it suck to finish third? Sure does. Does it suck to see 15,000 opposing fans in Turner Field for the playoffs? Damn right. I won’t disagree with you there at all.
But what you wrote about the team is simply wrong, plain and simple. Glavine didn’t lose the division for the Mets. His final three starts were pretty bad, yes, but if he doesn’t shine in the first five months of the season, the Mets don’t have a chance to choke the lead because THEY NEVER GET THE LEAD IN THE FIRST PLACE.
A post full of ridiculous rhetoric … what credibility you may have had on here has just been blown to hell in a handbasket. Good job, man. Enjoy your day.
Haven’t had a chance to post lately, but I couldn’t let this one go by without responding.
Geez …
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
DAP: inconvenient truth, you now are down to zero credibility.
You are entirely too generous. This poster lost all credibility long before 11:58 this morning.
By Overlord
January 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
IT SUCKS TO BE A FAN OF THE TEAMS WITH THE BIGGEST COLLAPSE IN SPORTS HISTORY and maybe not only in sports, it might be the biggest collapse ever!!!!!! I will never forget the look on MUTS fan on the stands that last week of baseball in 2007…. specially that last game…..LOL…. THAT REALLY SUXXXXXXXX. And it will hunt you forever, it doesnt matter if the braves finish last 10 times in a row, the look on your face when that game was over is PRICELESS. And there was no need to see it, it was the same for all muts fans.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Otherwise, the stats comparison of Betemit vs. Francoeur (or any other everyday player) is merely an exercise in numbers outside the scope of reality. Any similarity to actual performance is coincidental.
Coincidental? LOL! I need to start reading ChopTalk more to get this brainwashed.
Exactly. WB belongs in that same caliber of player…utility, role player, sub, scrub, whatever your name for it. Whether he’s measurably better than any OTHER of the species is debatable, as is also the position that one such player has more of an impact than most other such players.
It was good scrubs like Jim Leyritz and Chad Curtis who killed the Braves in 1996 and 1999. The Braves had the better lineup and rotation and that’s all Braves fans care about. THe Yankees had the better bench and pen, better scrubs I guess in the minds of the brainwashed, and the Yanks killed the Braves. The better TEAM wins, not the better lineups and rotations.
All hail the infallible Bobby Cox!
By McFann
January 22, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
I’ve come to the conclusion that ESPN just flat out hates anything that has to do with the Braves.
By MetsFan1009
January 22, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Would one of the Muts fans please do a side-by-side comparison of the Braves players and the Muts. After you do, and you see the truth, could I lick your tears?
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
It is not worth paying an average player $1 million-plus just in case an infielder goes down for a good chunk of the season. That’s like paying as much for insurance as for your car or for your home. Yes, teams should cover themselves and be prepared for injuries but not at the expense of flexibility.
Flexibility?
Many millions more should have provided the needed flexibility.
What seems flexible is what McJerk really meant when he said that.
By Efrim
January 22, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
McFann
If McCann had produced a similar year to 2006, actually scratch that, even close to the year he had in 2006, then he would be in that conversation. ESPN is the king of “what have you done lately for me”. McCann had a .772 OPS last season after posting an OPS of 960? in 2006.
I think McCann is right there with Martin and Mauer, but ESPN doesn’t hate the Braves. McCann didn’t have as good a 2007 and they weren’t going to make this conversation about 3 catchers. They have been doing this head to head thing all week.
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Inconvenient Truth, do you follow baseball in general and/or the Braves, in particular?
Wilson Betemit was well liked in the Braves clubhouse, made no waves, didn’t cause disruptions. Cox and Terry Pendleton liked him as much as players did. He simply didn’t meet expectations as a former top prospect. Period. They wanted him to, but he didn’t, so they were willing to deal him for what they thought was a younger, faster version of Betemit in Willy Aybar and a bullpen fix for the rest of the season in Baez, whom they never intended to re-sign.
Braves couldn’t have known Aybar would have alcohol/drug problems or get hurt twice, since he’d never had substance problems in his life, according to all those who knew him with the Angels, including his own brother and Vlad Guerrero.
Anyway, they dealt Betemit to Dodgers, who fully intended to make him a regular at 3B. Eddie Murray praised him as potentially the best hitter in the lineup, perhaps in an effort to pump up his confidence.
Then he fell flat on his face, losing his every-day job (he simply couldn’t hit lefties worth a damn). They traded him, giving up on him faster than the Braves.
You strike me as one of those who simply won’t believe that the player you were so fond of, the player you and the Braves (and Dodgers) had such high hopes for, is never going to live up to the expectations that two clubs had for him.
Francoeur was also a top prospect. He landed on the cover of Sports Illustrated in his first season in the majors, so exceptional and surprising were his immediate results, and then during his first two FULL seasons he totaled 48 homers while driving in more than 100 runs each year and winning a Gold Glove (whether you believe he deserved it or not, the NL coaches and managers who voted for it obviously did).
Deal with it, son. Betemit is a good dude that everyone pulls for. But he’s already 26. He wasn’t able to take advantage of his opportunities when given a chance to play regularly. Braves turned the page. Dodgers turned the page.
Who are you trying to convince, and what, exactly, are you trying to convince them to believe? Because I can assure you, it’s in vain.
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Inconvenient Betemit fan: Just got up to your “it sucks” post; now I wish I hadn’t bothered addressing you. I mean, that was seriously the most misinformed post we’ve had here in quite some time. Now I realize you don’t keep up with the sport. So disregard my previous post.
Oh, and loved the line about “prostitute” at 1B. Huh? The man was traded to the Braves last July; what did you want him to do, not report? Or maybe you think he should’ve just signed a long-term deal with the Rangers, simply because that’s the team that drafted him out of college? Or that he should sign a long-term deal with the Braves, regardless of what they offer compared to other teams?
Please. This is the real world.
By Michael Procton
January 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
For all you people who felt the need to squabble about Dotel, 2-year deal is final. $5 mil this year, $6 mil next. Seems like a whole lot to me.
By flange1
January 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Metsfan1009,
You must be a newbie. Our friend Lew has only done this about 10 times in the last 2 months.
The Mets at present DO NOT compare well to the Braves pitchers.
Without Santana or some other addition to the Mets Staff,your starters are
Pedro, Maine, O. Perez, El Ducke and either Pelfry or Humber
Braves staff:
Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, James, JJJ, Bennett, Morton
A look at the first 4 tells the whole story. Which match up do the Mets win? Sorry I see 0.
Look at the 5 spot and we have C. James and his proven history vs. the Mets unproven duo.
The bullpen just gets worse….
Try another tact Mets1009…..
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
AIT, I must to admit to some confusion as what exactly you’ve been trying to posit in the last few posts.
I mean, I thought you were comparing Betemit to Francoeur, using stats to imply that one is as good as the other.
How does that get spun to a Yankee bench 10 years ago being the deciding factor in a WS loss? Or an assumption that a dissenting reply constitutes a blind faith in Bobby Cox?
In any event, I believe you have accomplished your goal…get lots of replies and attention by using a premise sure to receive dissenting comments. Congrats. I’d believe you were Robert in disguise, but he’s a better writer.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 22, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Epic smackdown at 1:23. Keep the faith, brother.
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
You are cracking me up with the Betemit vs. Francoeur comparison. Ha ha ha ha. I wonder if the Yankees would make that trade? hmmmm.. You think…Maybe you could then trade David Wright for Betemit…What a deal!! Mets fans are all the same just most aren’t as big of fools as an “inconvenient truth”. Do you think the Mets would trade their 1 division title and 0 rings for the Braves 14 division titles and 1 ring since 1990? If the Braves could only trade Betemit for Francoeur then we could really make a run at the division…ha ha ha ha. Good stuff.
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
DOB: Epic smackdown at 1:23. Keep the faith, brother.
“Epic”? I don’t know about that. It’s not bad. It was good. But not epic.
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
An Inconvenient Truth, you’re still not getting it. Why pay a backup over $1 million when you don’t have to? Braves have Lillibridge and Prado. It’s a waste of resources and would cost the Braves flexibility to acquire players they may truly need. Or would limit there options to get a really good player if a key player went down for a huge portion of the season. I think I’d rather have some money set aside just in case something happened so that they could acquire a good player rather than pay $1 million-plus for a decent backup that may never play.
By Bryan
January 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
My favorite is when “IT” calls our second baseman moody … I bet that hurts ol’ Yunel Escobars feelings … Yunel, if you are reading this cheer up fella - don’t get so depressed - whistle a happy tune!
By Bryan
January 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
My favorite is when “IT” calls our shortstop moody … I bet that hurts ol’ Yunel Escobars feelings … Yunel, if you are reading this cheer up fella - don’t get so depressed - whistle a happy tune!
By flange1
January 22, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Excellent post at 1:51 Shaun!
By MGL
January 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Mets sign Endy Chavez to a 2 year deal. That really puts the finishing touches on a great off-season!!
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Betemit is a Placido Polanco type at best (Polanco as a 3B not as a 2B where he has more value) and a typical backup utility infielder at worst.
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about that. It’s not bad. [the smackdown] was good. But not epic.
Perhaps it needed a Daniel Day-Lewis reference to reach epic-ness, LOL. Nevertheless, it wil be one of this year’s nominees.
By Anders
January 22, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
MGL
Chavez is the perfect 4th outfielder. There isn’t a MLB team that wouldn’t want that guy off the bench. Can fill in at all outfield positions. Above average defensively for late game replacement of Alou in left. Runs well so he can pinch run. Decent pinch hitter to lead off innings and start rallies. His only knock is he can’t play everyday which he won’t. Although if he was on your Braves I’d bet you would be thrilled to have him as your “stop-gap” guy in center and batting 8th. I don’t think it’s the finishing touch to the off season but certainly a positive one. Oh yeah, he had one of the greatest defensive plays in postseason history a couple of years back too.
By MGL
January 22, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Anders - You are right as always. Perfect player on perfect team. Congrats!!
By Mike S
January 22, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Daybed, thanks for the oscar nomination list. Actually though, Tommy Lee Jones’ Best Actor nomination was for “In the Valley of Elah” and not for No Country (although he was great in that one)…
By MGL
January 22, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
re Chavez - “He has a career line of .271/.311/.375; he missed most of ‘07 with injuries.” No doubt the perfect player!!
By Bay Area Steve
January 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
10Paul,
Great line (epic) referencing the movie discussions lately. If DOB doesn’t laugh at that…..
Well, that’s funny, I don’t care who you are.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Chavez is the perfect 4th outfielder.
Too bad the Mets don’t have a leftfielder or a rightfielder. I’m all for great bench players obviously but what good are they without quality starters? Go find yourself a leftfielder and a rightfielder and then come back and tell me about your 4th outfielder. And, yes, Wilson Betemit is better than Endy Chavez.
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Anders, signing him is a small piece to the puzzle but I like the Braves moves this off season better. Granted that makes more sense than the Betemit vs. Francoeur trade that IT is suggesting. Oh wait he is saying that Betemit is better because of the stats he threw up side by side. I guess we will have to give up Francoeur and a couple of prospects to make it “even”. ha ha ha
By Anders
January 22, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
AIT Betemit is the modern day Charlie Hayes. Never met his potential. Appears to be lazy and over weight. In the right spot he can help you but I wouldn’t count on him. Nuff said about Betemit.
By DonCoburleone
January 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
InconvenientTruth are you Wilson Betemit’s agent?…
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, yes, that was funny. Epic, even (smiling)
By the way, after finally getting the Jay-Z “American Gangster” CD, I’ve gotta say it would’ve made my top 50 for the year, for sure.
And the new CD by Magnetic Fields is excellent (if you’ve never heard them, try it. Dude writes great songs. Not rockin’ or anything, just great songs.)
Going to get the new ones out today by Georgia-based bands The Whigs, Selmanaires and of Drive-By Truckers (the latter CD is outstanding, as I’ve said since I borrowed a copy from my struggling record-store owner buddy Don).
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit is better than Endy Chavez.
Now that’s not saying much.
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
from my struggling record-store owner buddy Don
Lots of plugs for this guy. Does his shop have a web page?
By Anders
January 22, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
AIT
I’ll take Alou/Chavez over Diaz/? and Beltran over another ? by a lot. Right field is Franceur over Church but not by as much as Beltran would be over your CF. Not sure why a Braves fan would be crowing over outfield supremacy. Not exactly a strong point on your roster these days. Pitching is where you want to stay. Of course two of those guys were old enough to vote for Ronald Reagan in his first term and your closer has 13 total career saves!
By Steve McP
January 22, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Mets pay $1.8 million for an oft injured (but now claiming to be completely fit) back-up (broke back anyone) OF with a .271 AVG, .311 OBP & .375 SLG, having averaged 321 at bats a season for the last 5 seasons, who will play occasionally in 2008.
Braves pay $2.0 million for an oft injured (but now claiming to be completely fit) starting CF with a .282 AVG, ,337 OBP, & .485 SLG, who averaged 475 at bats for the last 5 seasons, who will play CF until new guys are ready to come in.
Who appears to have got the best deal here?
By doug
January 22, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
It was ‘park adjusted’ epic.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
I know what you mean, Efrim, but ESPN does seem to have something against the Braves. If you watch a Braves game on ESPN, their announcers are always blatantly for the other team. Like on August 12? Against the Phillies? SHEESH!! That Jon Miller or whatever-his-name-is was SO for the Phillies. All the National networks are anti-Braves. MLB.com, ESPN, FOX, you name it! OK, so FOX isn’t as bad…
As for the catcher-comparison? Well, I’ll be back later with my own research!! (Oh, and that “What Have You Done for Me Lately” is a dumb way to operate.)
By Anders
January 22, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
DOB From your epic 1:23 post:
winning a Gold Glove (whether you believe he deserved it or not, the NL coaches and managers who voted for it obviously did).
You may want to hold onto this thought the next time Chipper starts rolling his eyes about Sir David Wright’s GG. Or does this rule only apply to the local fellas?
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
doug, too classic at 3:30, LMAO. Wish I had thought of it first :-)
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
and your closer has 13 total career saves!
And your closer has a million saves but will blow every single save that ever matters. Just when I get all down on the Braves, an idiot Mets fan shows up.
Sorry to sound so irrational today but one of Pedro’s tendons snapped off his arm, boomeranged around the room, and doinked me on the old noggin yesterday. Haven’t been the same since.
By Efrim
January 22, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Anders
If you go position by position, here is how I think the Mets and Braves stack up:
Catcher- McCann over Schneider. This one isn’t even close. Advantage- ATL
1st Base- Teixeira over Delgado. Advantage- ATL
2nd Base- Johnson over Castillo. Advantage- ATL
Shortstop- Reyes over Escobar. Advantage- NYM
Third Base- Wright over Jones. In terms of production, they are similar, with Chipper having a slight edge. But the fact that Chipper will probably miss about 25 games, hurts his case here. Advantage- NYM
Right Field- Francouer over Church. Advantage- ATL
Center Field- Beltran over Kotsay. This one isn’t close. Advantage- NYM
Left Field- Diaz/Jones over Alou. If Chipper’s health is going to be factored in, than Alou’s health does as well. Advantage- ATL
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
ESPN does seem to have something against the Braves.
Yes, they talked about the Braves so much in the 1990s, more than any other team, and ran out of things to say. Only so much they can sell the maybe this year angle.
Betemit is the modern day Charlie Hayes. Never met his potential. Appears to be lazy and over weight. In the right spot he can help you but I wouldn’t count on him. Nuff said about Betemit.
Charlie Hayes has a ring and caught the final out of a World Series. When is the last time a Met did that?
By BB FAN
January 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Francoeur actually deserved a gold glove. Wright winning one however, is a joke.
I don’t always trust the voters. For example, Rafael Palmeiro won the AL Gold Glove for 1B in 1999. He played 28 games at 1B in 1999!
David Wright did not deserve the Gold Glove and if you can’t admit that then you are just ignorant. Wright was one of the worst defensive thirdbaseman in the league. I’m not saying Chipper Jones deserved the gold glove, but definitely not Wright.
By Shaun
January 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Alou .341/.392/.524 in 87 games, age 41 on Opening Day
Chavez .287/.325/.380 in 71 games, age 30 on Opening Day
Diaz .338/.368/.497 in 135 games, age 30 on Opening Day
If Alou can play more than 100 games at the same level of his 87 games in 2007, maybe I’d take him. But Diaz is the best bet for putting up a solid season in 2008, if you are objective. Most know you are not and it’s clear by the numbers you are not. I don’t know if anyone who is thinking clearly would take Alou/Chavez over Matt Diaz. Over the last couple of years, Diaz’s batting average is right up there with the best in the game. No, I’ll take an old guy and a fringe outfielder instead.
By timmythebrave
January 22, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Anders: Why is it “Sir” David Wright? Was he knighted? Is that what he makes all his b*** call him? Just don’t get it
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Anders, yes, it only applies to the local fellas.
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, just trying to help out a typically struggling indie record store-owning compadre.
His site is ellaguru.com
Just call the number on there and ask for Don. He ain’t doing nothing. And he knows his stuff. He used to manage a band or two in Austin, many millions of brain cells ago. Give him crap about attending UF.
By Efrim
January 22, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
BaseballAmerica’s take on Braves pitching prospect Julio Teheran in a January 18th edition of Ask BA:
The top pitcher on the Latin American market last summer, Teheran signed for $850,000. A Colombian, he showed off a 94-95 mph fastball, a late-biting 78-79 mph curveball and an 81-82 mph changeup with nice sink during instructional league. I’m anxious to see how he does in his pro debut this year, because he does have the best arm among international amateurs since Hernandez signed with the Mariners for $710,000 in 2002.
We don’t have any scouting reports on Hernandez when he was 16. The following year, he was dominating the short-season Northwest League with a mid-90s fastball, a devastating curveball and a changeup. At 6-foot-3 and 170 pounds, Hernandez was an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than Teheran is now.
In other words, they’re very comparable. And that’s a good omen for Teheran and the Braves, because Hernandez is the best pitching prospect of the decade thus far. His major league career to this point hasn’t been too shabby either. He has gone 30-25, 3.94 with a 418-136 K-BB ratio in 466 innings—and he’s still just 21.
Teheran is a guy that Braves fans should keep an eye on for the next couple of seasons. Not saying he is Felix Hernandez, but that is the guy they are comparing him too. If so, we may see him sooner than people may think. Possibly by 2010.
Here is the link: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/265478.html
By BB FAN
January 22, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
I just checked ESPN.com for the fielding stats in 2007. David Wright was 18th out of 22 in NL and AL that qualified. Chipper Jones was 5th overall. Jones, Aramis Ramirez or Scott Rolen should have won the award in the NL.
The worst part is that David Wright has not even improved over the last 3 years. He’s gone from .948 fielding % to .954. Wright will be a great hitter, but his fielding sure is horrible.
By flange1
January 22, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
10Paul,
Will echo DOB’s praises of EllaGuru. Great store, Don is a great guy and he has TONS of stuff.
He will also order anything you want.
He has a dollar or two of my money….
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
It was ‘park adjusted’ epic.
Sh!t. I saw this and thought it was Scoots. Classic stuff!
By flange1
January 22, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
BB Fan,
HOW DARE YOU TAKE DAVID WRIGHT”S NAME IN VAIN??????
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
DOB: Thanks for the link. I just thought I’d like to check out the page after months and months of hearing about the man. Next time I’m in the ATL I’ll try and stop by.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 22, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
DOB - how would you describe the Magnetic Fields’ cd? similar to 69 love songs?
By ncscoots
January 22, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun, you neglect to point out that Alou had only 30 fewer AB in his injury-filled season than did Matt in his 135 games. Kinda hard to postulate that Diaz is the best bet for putting up a solid season in 2008 when he’s gonna get a half-season of AB, max.
Not that I consider the Mets to have an edge in LF, but you shouldn’t use Diaz to refute the argument.
By Anders
January 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Efrim
I don’t think your position by position analysis is that far off. But as we know it doesn’t work that way. Generally I give the Braves a distinct advantage in starting pitching until I see what Pedro has and I see if Maine and Perez can step up again over their 2007 performance. These are two guys coming into the time in their careers where you see if they can be top flight guys or just 3rd and 4th type starters. As I’ve said before I fully expect a three way fight including the Phils and we’ll see what happens. If the Mets do get Santana then that changes everything. Big if, but a guy can dream.
By BillsNV
January 22, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
I read an interesting article today in the Reno paper on Mark Kotsay. I had no idea his wife was from here.
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080122/SPORTS/801220356/1018
Baseball: Q & A with part-time Reno resident Mark Kotsay SCOTT OXARART RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL Posted: 1/22/2008
Part-time Reno resident Mark Kotsay will join his new team, the Atlanta Braves next month when Major League Baseball players report to spring training camps across the country.
Last week, the 32-year-old outfielder with a career .282 batting average spoke at a Western Nevada College baseball team fund-raiser at the Peppermill Hotel and Casino. Before speaking to donors, Kotsay sat down and discussed the trade that sent him to the Braves, the recently-released Mitchell Report, retirement and his beautiful wife Jaime. Here is his Q&A as told to freelance writer Scott Oxarart.
RGJ: How do you feel about being traded to the Atlanta Braves?
MK: I’m really excited about it. It’s a team with a lot of tradition and a lot of winning history. They want to be competitive and they’re making moves this offseason to solidify some things. They’re going in the right direction.
RGJ: How much longer do you want to play?
MK: I want to play four, five, six years. I mean, I wouldn’t put a limit on it. If I’m healthy, I want to play. When that point reaches where I’m not able to play at a level where I want to because of health issues, that will be it.
RGJ: What was your reaction to the Mitchell Report?
MK: My general thoughts on it are (Commissioner) Bud Selig took the lead and thought things needed to be done. There has been positive response as well as negative response. I don’t know how it’s all going to play out at this point. Giving a statement of where it’s at and where it’s going to go, I don’t know. I think, obviously, it was an issue in the game that needed to be addressed. (Selig) made an issue to go forward.
RGJ: The situation with your back injury, how is it feeling and what caused it?
Kotsay: It was a little wear and tear and a few walls. You know. I had surgery Mar. 8, (2007), and battled through two months of ups and downs. I ended up shutting my season down in August, going back into rehab and strengthening workouts and hopefully things are turning the corner. You never know, there is history with my back. I’m very optimistic and excited to go into this season and hope I contribute in a positive way in Atlanta and you know…win.
RGJ: What is it like waking up after back surgery?
MK: Well, now you can get up and walk three hours after. They’ve modernized it a great deal. There are a lot of guys who come back from it and do well. And I want to be one of those guys.
RGJ: What are your ties to Reno?
Kotsay: My wife is from Carson City. We bought a home here in Reno in 2001.
RGJ: It’s been reported that you’re wife (Jamie Kotsay) is one of the most beautiful professional athlete wives. Who brags the most about that?
MK: My wife is very beautiful… I think the talk radio shows bring it up more than anybody. Yeah, I do answer those questions quite a bit.
By Efrim
January 22, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Anders
I agree. I think it will come right down to the wire as well. I think two teams will win 87-90 games. One will win 83-85 games.
By N8
January 22, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
McFann
Get over yourself with the “ESPN bias” CRAP!!!!
I have NEVER watched a game on ESPN and thought that the announcers were “against the Braves”.
In fact, even AS A BRAVES FAN, I get a little sick of ESPN raving over the like of Smoltz, Chipper and how AMAZING the tandem of Cox and JS were.
Buck Martinez PRAISES the Braves. John Miller PRAISES the Braves. Rick Sutcliffe (sp?) WON’T FRICKIN SHUT UP about how amazing the Braves are, Joe Morgan (you know, the guy NONE of you can stand), NEVER has anything bad to say about the Braves (other than him questioning Bobby NOT winning more WS with the talent we’ve had - I’m sure Morgan is Robert’s favorite announce of all time).
Just because they don’t GUSH over the Braves the way that Chip does, doesn’t make them AGAINST the Braves.
I suppose the next thing you’ll say is that ESPN “rigged” the NFL playoffs to have a team from NY and Boston playing in the superbowl?
SHHEEEEEEEEESSHHH!
By Anders
January 22, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
AIT
Charlie Hayes has a ring and caught the final out of a World Series. When is the last time a Met did that?
In the right spot he can help you. I had that base covered. Check out the rest of his illustrious career.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Listen, Neight, maybe ESPN isn’t totally bias, but let me tell you, I can’t think of a time off hand that they “praised” the Braves.
Maybe they don’t “hate” the Braves like I typed earlier. (Was completely ticked off when I typed that. Very ticked.) But when the Braves played the Phillies, Jon Miller was all goody-goody about anything a Phillie player did.
The Phillies’ CFer made an Andruw Jones-like catch, and Jon’s screaming, “HE CAUGHT THE BALL!!! OH!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!” Then AJ makes the same play a few innings later, and he says something like, “And he makes the catch.”
Maybe IYO he didn’t get excited because AJ made those plays every day. OK, then, how ‘bout this: Francoeur guns down two guys at home in that game. Now, they re-showed the first one a few times, but the second one? OK, it happened, and Jon, ya know, says the guy’s out at home and all that. Then he says, “Back to Chase Utley…” And Chase Utley wasn’t even playing!! This game was about a week or so after he broke his hand, so Jon’s goin’ of on him!! Talk about a SHEEEEEESH moment! And after the Phillies won, Jon was the happiest man on the planet.
But OK, you cann have your own opinion, and I’ll have mine. No use gettin’ into a “thing” over this, it’s just one of those things.
By TennesseePaul
January 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Heath Ledger is dead.
By An Inconvenient Truth
January 22, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Heath Ledger dead at 28. Now that’s inconvenient. So sad. Drugs kill.
By JerseyGil
January 22, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
Hey guys…i just turn on my tv and in the sport new here in Phildelphia and Jimmy Rollins just said that the phillis will win 100 Games….I guess we have to win 102.
By Anders
January 22, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
For all you Chavez/Alou bashers, just compare Chavez alone in 2006 (he was hurt most of 2007) to Diaz’s 2007. They had virtually the same number of at bats. Chavez scored 3 more runs, had 1 more double, had 5 more triples, 8 more walks, 19 less strike outs, and stole 8 more bases than Diaz. Diaz had 13 more hits, 8 more HR’s and 3 more RBI’s. I’m willing to trade that for the defense Chavez brings over Diaz. And now we can add Alou to the Mets side of the equation versus Brandon Jones who’s so green ESPN doesn’t even have a picture of him posted. Sorry guys, the Braves don’t win this position based on the offensive numbers and clearly not on defense.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
I’m with DAP on that ESPN hunka junk. (Sorry, Neight) I think Martin’s about where McCann was after 2006 (only slightly less in some ways, of course). He had a really good second year. There are, however, some differences that I think point in McCann’s favor:
Martin had 117 games as a catcher under his belt coming into his second season, McCann had 57, making his best season his first full season, while Martin’s was his second.
(Now, this next one is Mauer and Martin vs. McCann) After the two of them had good years, (And, none of them have had “bad years”) everyone falls in love with them. (Meaning MLB.com, ESPN, SI, and all those.) And that kind of stuff cann be bad for a player’s head. But with McCann, he had that good year, and he did just what should happen: He earned a Silver Slugger and an All-Star appearance. But thank heavens he wasn’t put on the cover of SI above the caption “American Idol”!! He’s been staying “in the shadows” more, and that’s the way he likes it.
Joe Mauer has been playing for four years. And like someone on here typed, both Mauer and Martin are older than McCann.
As for defense, well, Mauer doesn’t make as many errors. The most he’s made in a season is five!! McCann made a lot last year, but I still think that had a lot to do with his eyes. (Yes, and his footwork, too, yes.)
By N8
January 22, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
McFann
“I can’t think of a time off hand that they “praised” the Braves.”
First off, let me say that I AGREE, this isn’t worth getting into a “thing” over.
But if you can look yourself in the mirror and say the above statement, I can think of only 2 scenarios in which you may feel this way.
1) You are such a homer, that if the announcers aren’t (insert self love adjective), themselves over the Braves, then you fell they “hate” them.
or
2) You just haven’t watched much Braves games on ESPN over the years.
For one, without looking up the “numbers” of broadcasts of certain teams, I’d venture a guess that NO TEAM was covered by ESPN broadcasts more than the Braves were. For a while there it seemed like EVERY Wednesday they were on either ESPN or ESPN2.
As for Jon Miller, if you typically watch ANY Sunday Night ESPN game with him and Miller, he acts like that NO MATTER WHO is playing. It could be the Devil Rays playing the Kansas City Royals and he’ll find SOMETHING to get excited about. The guy just loves covering BASEBALL.
That’s my opinion. Miller may be a little bombastic at times, and over the top. But he generally does a fine job describing the game. His problem is that he is a FANTASTIC radio announcer (which means he makes every play sound better than it is - as to “paint a picture” of the event), but he tends to act the same way, even when doing TV and the view has the image right there in front of them.
In case you haven’t noticed, Chip Caray does the same exact thing.
If I’m correct, Sutcliffe lives in the same neigborhood as Leo Mazzone and Smoltz (maybe some other or different Braves), and quite honestly won’t shut up about how much he loves them.
So the only thing I can think of is that you’ve never watched and ESPN game that Rick has announced. It’s hard to miss his adoration of the Braves organization.
By McFann
January 22, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
OK, Neight, I understand your point of view.
I don’t think I’ve heard “Rick” announce. Heh, I don’t even know who he is. (Except an announcer for ESPN, obviously.)
BTW, I’m not a fan of Chip Caray.
By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )
January 22, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
David,
I was talking about Soriano signing a contract, not Bobby… I messed that first post up, but I meant they were talking about Soriano on that XM show. Sorry about that!!
By McFann
January 22, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
Another thing, Neight, yeah, I’m a real homer. I’m a big time homer. I drive people nuts that way.
By Metropolitan Man
January 22, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
Hey there brave bloggers, still committed to rooting those braves huh. Well if you are still wondering where the ‘MONEY” is well heres the skinny. If you cant pay for an impact player like Beltran, Pedro, Wagner,(helped gain some respect) why keep wasting it like they did in the past? With money going into Citi field its best to pay only players who will take you to the top and keep the philthies and braves at bay. Those impact guys we NEED are not free agents so you gotta grease the wheels of other GM’s and get in where you fit in. When you guys realize you cant resign Tex, then you will cry foul. Save some time now and go AAA. The METS will only get better because of money and patience that wasnt shown in the past.
Bottom line as far as Santana goes, the idiot GM will soon cost himself and the Twinkies any chance of a good return. I gues you guys are content as long as MR. Bean keeps helping you guys. That A’s GM has dealt with you guys for the past 2 years. Is your GM (and former) in bed with MR. Bean?
NY Newsday.
Smith would not comment on how motivated the Twins are to move Santana. Without a contract extension — and the Twins do not believe they can offer enough money to convince Santana to sign a longterm deal — he will become a free agent after the season. Most people around the game believe the Twins will ultimately trade Santana, rather than risk his walking and their gaining nothing more than draft picks in return.
Smith said only: “We obviously haven’t done a deal.”
Some also believe hanging onto Santana would be a risk because he has a full no-trade clause. The closer his free agency looms, conventional wisdom goes, the less likely he would be to waive the no-trade clause and sign an extension with a new team. Without an extension, no team will offer the value the Twins are looking for.
By David O'Brien
January 22, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Daybed, yes it’s along the same lines as that three-CD set 69 Long Songs.