Braves

By McFann

January 9, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

First? Didn’t think so…

By keylargo25

January 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

For some reason it never hit home today that we got a prospect who is not even mentioned as a possibility as a starter in CF and a guy who is mentioned as a potential number five starter for an All Star shortstop under contract for less than 6 million.

Compare this to what we gave up to get Tex and the trade just does not look good long term.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

efrim Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Brandon Morrow, George Sherrill and Carlos Triunfel are the guys being talked about. Not all five…but three of them with Adam Jones being a must for the O’s.

thanx for the info. you seem to know whats going on with this, do the braves have players that compare to these? does adam jones=jordan shaefer, jeff clement=clint sammons, brandon morrow=blaine boyer, george sherrill=royce ring, and carlos triunfel=brent lillibridge?

i still kinda wish we could get a guy like that, though i know wrens aint looking.

By Mac

January 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, Patterson bats lefthanded and so would not paltoon with other lefthanded hitters.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

HOLY COW!! I was first. Dang, of all times to type “Didn’t think so”!

Those RLOB stats are almost ready. in August now.

By StingerSplash

January 9, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Are you sure about former Harrison High tailback Corey Patterson batting right handed?

By Joe Smoe

January 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

DOB…Is it possible that the Braves will try to make a trade for Kotsay and Blanton or Street. Braves take the over paid salary, and A’s get less prospects the normal for Blanton. A salary dump and rebuild move for the A’s.

It fills two spots for the Braves. The only reason I see it not working perfectly is the Left handed bat, as pointed out above.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

DAP, how is it trivializing teamwork to say a triple should be weighed more in terms of run creation than a sac fly following that triple?

And bringing up single season results as a point seems to be a bit odd for you Payne. You love to highlight how single season results change when it suits the arguement, but here you point to 2007 AJ as a standard and norm of AJ.

Point is, you shouldn’t build around “RBI guys.” Because a guy that drives in less runs may be more valuable to your team if he gets on base more often and accrues more bases.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

yes, Mac. but his numbers vs. lefty pitchers were far better than vs. righties. Those were his splits last season.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

DOB,

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

thanx DOB, i cant wait for the news about CF to break!

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

That’s Steve Earle singing on The Wire? How the heck did I miss that for four years?!? I recognized the song, but never knew it was Earle.

By rainman

January 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Sorry to point it out Dave but patterson bats lefty and before this year was terrible against other lefties . I Still would love to have him I think he still has a nice upside to him plus maybe some home cooking would do him good. Thanks for your hard work this off season Dave and go Braves.

By BossLady

January 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Well, Well Well

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

DOB,

just dont think the braves need another left handed hitter in the lineup. could cause a ton of matchup problems late in games. now thats assuming thorman is still on the club.

By TennesseePaul

January 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog DOB. I’d rather see Kotsay than Patterson. Perhaps a deal can be swung that brings back both Blanton and Kotsay. Who knows.

From the previous blog (I posted just as DOB dropped the old and brought in the new)
Payne: DAP, actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra.

Most times in life you don’t get the total package. Can you fill out all 9 positions with guys who do both, hit the ball hard and far and get on base a lot? Probably not. But you could go with a good mix of guys who do both or one or the other (which is what I believe most teams attempt to do, putting the high OBP guys at the top of the order followed by guys who hit hard and far to drive them in). In the case of AJ, and most “RBI guys”, I think you’ll find they hit the ball hard and far. I can’t think of any light hitting players who consistantly tally up 90+ RBI seasons.
And bringing up single season results as a point seems to be a bit odd for you Payne. You love to highlight how single season results change when it suits the arguement, but here you point to 2007 AJ as a standard and norm of AJ. Yet in the past you’ve said you’d rather have AJ than a whole list of guys others have suggested.

McFann: If everybody on a team hits triples all the time, somebody is bound to score sometime.

This is true. But nobody would win. The game has to end for a victor to be declared and it has to at least get to the 5th before the game can be called. If no batter ever makes an out the game never exits the first inning and hence you have no winner.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

keylargo25 i think the situation called for a trade of either renteria or escobar, because they couldnt both start. so would you have traded escobar, who had a great year and is almost already as good as renteria, and under your control for years to come, or renteria, who is a great player but cost like 5.5 mil more and would only be there one more year?

By True Braves Fan

January 9, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Wilson, Jordan and Mondesi come to mind as outfielders tried by Braves in previous seasons. Don’t add Kotsay and Patterson to the list.

By Mark

January 9, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Corey Patterson bats left handed and would be a huge waste of a roster spot, even at $500,000, let alone $3 million.

Kotsay hasn’t been above average in quite some time and would be a waste of money for a team with little payroll flexibility and several injury concerns as is.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Ugh. Now somebody’s talkin’ about a player being too skinny?

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, it’s only been Earle singing the theme song the past two seasons. Before that, they had another theme song (can’t recall offhand, but it was also a good one).

Rainman, yes I realize that and corrected it. I was working quickly and just using his splits from last season. Went back and saw that indeed, he stunk vs. lefties before last season. Probably just a fluke one-year thing, unless he changed something fundamentally in his approach, which I doubt.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun how is it trivializing teamwork to say a triple should be weighed more in terms of run creation than a sac fly following that triple?

cause you dont get a run for a triple, even though youre only 90 feet away.

i dont think we really disagree as strongly as its sounding, we just express it in very different ways.

By GeorgetownKid

January 9, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

With the good but not great numbers that would be expected from Kotsay or Patterson, what do you think would be realistic numbers from Anderson?

From what I have read, I think it is realistic that he has a season similar to that of Kelly Johnson. He won’t draw as many walks, but he’ll be a viable base-stealing threat.

I think that is pretty good production from a guy making the league minimum. Would the slightly better production from a free agent be worth several million dollars?

That doesn’t seem to offer the Braves a very good return-on-investment.

By Efrim

January 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

DAP

thanx for the info. you seem to know whats going on with this, do the braves have players that compare to these? does adam jones=jordan shaefer, jeff clement=clint sammons, brandon morrow=blaine boyer, george sherrill=royce ring, and carlos triunfel=brent lillibridge?

No on all counts. At least that is what scouts say. If you even believe them. Schafer and Jones is close, but I think if you polled most baseball people, they would take Adam Jones. As for Clement and Sammons, no way. Boyer doesn’t come close to Morrow. Sherrill is one of the best LHP specialists in the league and I am not too sure on Lillibridge and Truinfel. Truinfel is like Elvis Andrus. Really too young to know. Who knows? Braves ain’t getting the guy.

I figure if the Braves were to offer something, it would be Schafer, Lillibridge, Rohrbough and Hanson. Way too much to trade for a guy who will most surely sign with the Yankees or Red Sox in two seasons. Though, we did give up 5 prospects for Tex and he will be gone at the end of this season…..

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

10Paul If no batter ever makes an out the game never exits the first inning and hence you have no winner.

Well, that’s one way to look at it, I guess.

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Before that, they had another theme song (can’t recall offhand, but it was also a good one).

I can’t recall it, either. Just goes to show that a good Waits tune can make you forget most others. :-)

By flange1

January 9, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra. from Shaun

Shaun, in a perfect world you are correct, all 9 players would be guys that get on base a lot and hit the ball far and hard.

Reality is more that you have some guys that get on base alot, some guys that hit the ball far and hard, some guys that do both and some guys that do neither.

My belief is that for a real baseball team not a fantasy team, you have to have a balance of the first 3. On my real team, the 1, 2 and 8 hitters get on base alot, the 3,4 and 5 guys hopefully get on base alot and hit the ball hard and far and the 6 and 7 guys either hit the ball hard and far or get on base alot.

It’s is great to talk philosophy all we want about the perfect offensive team, but in the real world, we have to settle for the players on the team and available to the team and then place them in the order that we think will maximize offensive productivity.

I know that you don’t believe that position in the batting order means alot, but on a real live team, I believe it does.

By Random

January 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Triples vs. SF:

Y’all’re arguing apples and oranges.

A triple may or may not produce a run (or runs), whereas by definition a sac fly does produce a run. If you normalize the context of your argument (stipulating a man on third), then it’s the no-brainer that Shaun makes it out to be — of course the triple is better. If you make your argument context-free (independent of whether there are base-runners), the “sac fly” is just a fly out which may or may not bring home a run (just as a triple may or may not bring home a run), and it’s still a no-brainer, since the triple does not yield an out and leaves a man on base. Sheeeeeeesh. (Plus, a triple is more than three times as likely to produce a run than a fly out.)

(Though I’ve got to disagree with you, Shaun, when you say It’s a question of what’s more valuable, a guy who hits fly balls or a guy who gets extra-base hits — after all, most triples are fly balls that were simply not caught.)

Finally, if you go back to the initial premise as DAP does (if there’s a triple then a sac fly …), even in this limited and specific context (stipulating bases empty, and sequencing the triple before the sac fly), it’s a no-brainer, since the triple is the necessary sine qua non precursor of the sac fly. (A sac fly is possible if and only if there’s a man on third.)

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

TPaul, we need some park-adjusted opinions on here, man, LOL.

Triples and sac flies? Can you park-adjust those? Just checking. :-)

By Random

January 9, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Au contraire, I believe that the Braves considered their major offseason work completed after they traded Ascanio for Ohman and Infante.

By Steve in DC

January 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

It’s always been “Down in the hole,” on The Wire, though they’ve typically had a different version by a different artist every single season.

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

OK, Lord, you can take me now…I’ve lived to see “sine qua non” used on the Braves/MIB blog. :-)

By N8

January 9, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN:

It has been reported that David Wright’s attourneys are holding a press conference in which they will play a tape recording of a conversation between he and Roger Clemens discussing Clemens’ personal trainer injecting shots of Wright’s DNA into Clemens’ azz.

Seems Clemens wanted to be “as good as I can be, and found nobody better than David Wright to steal DNA from”.

When reached for comment, Wright said (through his attourney), that he didn’t have a problem with Clemens doing so, in fact he is flattered. But didn’t appreciate the DNA being stolen, and is suing Clemens for 500 million dollars.

As a side note, Wright’s attourney also mentioned that David Wright made the NFL ALL PRO TEAM (at 3 different positions).

By flange1

January 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

I liked “if and only if” better. Reminded me of Linear Equations and UGA!!!

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve.

They don’t have a different version this season — same as last year, by Earle.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

I also would build my team around guys who get on base as much as possible and who hit the ball hard and far as often as possible.

Everyone wants someone who can get on base and hit the ball as hard and as far as possible. Generally, that will create runs and win lots of games. But they would also like their hitters to be good situational hitters. To be able to take an outside pitch and go the other way, to draw a walk, to ground out to second so the runner on third can score, to ground out to second so the runner on second can advance to third, to be able to fly out to the deep outfield to get a runner on second over to third or to get a runner to score from third, to be able to steal a base, to be able bunt your way on to base, to be able to bunt a runner over, to be able to fake the bunt or have the defense be aware of the real potential of the bunt so the infield is somewhat drawn in and the hitter can more easily sneak a hit through the infield. Too often people want to claim it is just bad luck when a team loses a close game against an evenly matched team when it is really poor execution of those other pesky situational small ball things in the late innings that affect the outcome.

It’s hard to remember many games where the Braves executed these kinds of things well late in close games. They would often get people on base but no one could timely execute the big things or small things needed to get the run home. The Braves just don’t have enough hitters who pose those smallball threats when the situation calls for it. And Bobby Cox does not seem to care that much about it. Unless the hitter in question is Kelly Johnson. He fails to drop a bunt and is put into a platoon and yanked out of the leadoff spot.

By hk

January 9, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

… Conference Strengths (bar graph) based on AP poll raw data, today vs back in September …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/div2007.htm

By cricket

January 9, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

I am going to start a team, the Homerrers, with all the hitters that are home run guys. My team will score more runs than the Tripllers, since the frequency at which a real life hitter can hit triples or different game time situations which cause a real life hitter to alter his game plan, are not the constraints. I will get all these homer hitters from the town right next to where all the Tripllers come from. Off course in this fantastic league, the RBIers will hardly score any runs as they wouldn’t know what to do when there are no base runners.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

“Then again, if they have to go with speedy rook Anderson, I think they’re prepared to do that. Unless him and Schafer both look completely overmatched this spring, which seems unlikely in Anderson’s case, given how well Anderson played in his September callup with the ‘Stros.”

Whoa DOB, no need to try and give us that warm and snuggly feeling when it comes to Josh Anderson. He projects to be (at best) a fringe major leaguer. He had an OPS slightly above .700 in his minor league career, which Bill James projects at the major league level as a .223 average, .257OBP, and a .277 Slugging %…. A .534 OPS!!! .534! I for one will trust a minor league career which spans 5 years and 1,000+AB’s over 67 at-bats in a September call-up. That is the freaking definition of small sample size right there.

I appreciate the optimism DOB, but I for one would be frightened if Anderson is starting in CF on March 31 in Washington…

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

GeorgetownKid, you wrote of Josh Anderson: “From what I have read, I think it is realistic that he has a season similar to that of Kelly Johnson.”

Are you kidding? GK, Kelly Johnson hit .276 with 26 doubles, 10 triples, 16 homers, 91 runs, 68 RBIs, a .375 OBP and a .457 slugging percentage.

Are you freakin’ kidding me that you really think Josh Anderson can produce anywhere even remotely similar numbers to those?

Anderson’s BEST single-season totals in five seasons in the MINORS were 26 doubles (2006), six homers (2004) and 52 RBIs (2004), and he hit .300 (.308) once in the minors, slugged as high as .390 just once, and had an OBP as high as .350 just once — and that’s in the MINORS.

And you believe he can do what Kelly Johnson did, or even remotely close to what KJ did, in Anderson’s first season in the majors?

No way. NO. WAY.

By Roger Clemens

January 9, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Multiple choice question. Which of the following is the most correct about me:

a. I did not have injection relations with that woman, Ms. McNamee

b. I did have a relationship with Miss McNamee that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. I misled people, including even my wife Andy. I deeply regret that.

c. I injected but did not inhale.

d. The last 10 years of my career has been a vast conspiracy led by my right wing.

By Skeeter

January 9, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

I am going to start a team, the Homerrers, with all the hitters that are home run guys. My team will score more runs than the Tripllers, since the frequency at which a real life hitter can hit triples or different game time situations which cause a real life hitter to alter his game plan, are not the constraints. I will get all these homer hitters from the town right next to where all the Tripllers come from. Off course in this fantastic league, the RBIers will hardly score any runs as they wouldn’t know what to do when there are no base runners.

Don’t forget to configure a walkers and an OBPers team as well. It will be fun too see how many men they can get on base without scoring.

Always remember this: The object of this silly game we call baseball is to get on base and create runs, not to actually score runs.

By JC FROM UT

January 9, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any chance the Braves look into what it would take to sign Mike Cameron? We all know he can play defense and if he can hit around .240-.250 with a little power it will be as good as AJ was last season.

By doc

January 9, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

i see roger finally got smart. really good post and one you should have given yourself credit for rather than rocket.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Where is our CF gonna hit in the lineup?

8th is my choice. Yunel should be 1st. That way he would cut down on his swing and make him even a better contact hitter. Plus he is a better baserunner than KJ. There is more of a chance to find KJ on base once he comes to bat than the other way around. I think Yunel is a better option to cover for the missing Renteria, but you cant have him batting 1st and 2nd (woooooow!!!), so 1st ill think is our best option.

By AdirondackDave

January 9, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

keylargo25 — The Renteria and Tex deals are not comparable. I was a big Edgar fan but his defensive skills are in decline which is not surprising. Tex is still young and conceiveably getting even better (hard to believe given his career so far).

I’m not one of those who write off Tex after ‘08. I think the Braves will make a strong and probably creative offer to him in the 20M-22M per year range. Sure maybe the Yanks or Mets dangle more money but my guess there’s a 40 maybe even 50% chance he’ll re-sign with the Braves. Some local ties work in the Braves favor somewhat.

By Luther

January 9, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

I saw that Earle sings this seasons’s theme on the credits. Here is what IMDB has for performer for the rest of the seasons(same song throughout): 1.Blind Boys of Alabama 2.Tom Waits 3.Neville Brothers 4. Ivan Ashford, Markel Steele, Cameron Brown, Tariq Al-Sabir and Avery Bargasse

This could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure it sounded like the Neville Brothers in season 3. Agree, its the best show on in my opinion.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , I hate to blow holes in your Mark Kotsay theory. But , the man is a D.L. candidate waiting to happen. His back injury has been an ongoing ordeal since the middle of the 2005 season. He has missed the better part of 150 games since June 5th 2005 due to what is pretty much the same thing and I’ll be more than happy to post his injury history.

Basically , the man has been to Oakland what Hampton has been for the Braves. Don’t get me wrong , Kotsay is a great talent and clubhouse presence who would have a positive impact on the younger players with his all out style of play and bazooka for a throwing arm.

If Oakland were to eat the vast majority of his 7 million dollar contract in 2008 , give him to the Braves for next to nothing and persuade Kotsay to forego his limited no-trade clause , sure why not.

As for Cory Patterson , please tell me you are joking. His 5 to 1 strikeout/walk ratio is brutal. Career .298 OBP , ridiculous. Career .258 BA , putrid. Did I mention the fact that I hate underachievers. (Patterson was the 3rd pick in the 1998 draft).

Sure Patterson plays great defense , but so does Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer. Not to mention the fact that they will both make the major league minimum if they make the 2008 squad.

I’ll stick with the cereal man , thank you very much. The Braves persuaded Boston to pay part of Renteria’s contract (11 million in cash). I see no reason why they can’t go the same route with Coco Crisp. I don’t see the Braves giving up anymore for Crisp than they gave up for Renteria.

Trading Gregor Blanco and or Martin Prado for Crisp while getting the Sox to eat half of the cereal man’s contract seems about right.

By rainman

January 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

I just cant see us not getting someone else for center. Everything we have done has said we are going for it. Glav and Tex are gone after this year. So what is 5 or 6 mill if it is what puts you over the top or at least keeps us from having a weak spot.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with you Dave about Tex, it is clear some players, we all humans do, take a little less money for a better place to work. The pressure and unfairness in NY is so high sometimes no amount of money makes for the damage. If i was a baseball player (thinking as a human being) i would take 4 years 80 million in atlanta over 5 million 125 in NY. 80 million (which will become less with taxes etc) are enough to live your live, a better live and your children and grandsons can even taste some. So why go into so much trouble in NY. If not…….as Torre, Clemens, Randolph, Glavine, Jose Reyes, ARod, etc.

By GM

January 9, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Please no more has been / washed up players….give youth a chance. Why waste money or young talent for a stop gap player. Unless a miracle happens and all four of the Braves old horse starters are able to finish the season without a trip to the DL the Braves want be contending for the East title. Build the team with strong pieces for the future and quit trying to fill holes is already on the roster.

By Salty

January 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Random Isn’t it only a sac fly if a run scores, not just advance a base? If so, a triple doesn’t mean a run; a sac fly does.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Coach, no need to apologize — you didn’t blow holes in anything.

Oh, and it’s an $8 mill contract, not $7 mill.

Kotsay would be to Oakland what Hampton’s been to Atlanta if Kotsay had played zero games the past two years, as Hampton’s done. Pretty simple comparison, really.

By keylargo25

January 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

DAP & AdirondakDave

My point with the trade is that we did not get anyone who is going to contribute from opening day on. We debated ER vs. Escobar from every angle and that is not my point. (although I would like to have seen more time in the majors and proof his attitude is straightened out from Escobar).

Another point about the trade is that we shopped ER for how long - 10 minutes before trading him to Detroit and the best GM in the majors Dave Dombrowski. I’m not getting on Frank Wren but I live down in South Florida and the Marlins are STILL bringing up people Dombrowski traded for when he was here.

By D-Cider

January 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

The Neville Bros. did “down in the hole” the first season on the wire.
I thought Patterson improved a lot for the O’s last year, but he still has some serious holes in his swing. he also seemed to do better batting 2nd in the lineup than and can steal you 30-40 bases a year. Steve Earle needs to do something with that hair!

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

DonC, I ain’t giving you the warm-and-snuggly anything, as you can see by my response to GeorgetownKid regarding Anderson.

Not to come off wrong, but your really don’t need to explain to me anything about what he or any other current player projects to be over his career. But thank you.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , your right. The Braves have received nothing from Hampton during the 2006-2007 seasons while insurance has covered roughly half his contract.

Oakland has gotten 8 HR’s 79 RBI and a .257 BA from Kotsay the past two seasons while paying him 15 million.

The A’s are way ahead. Now ,excuse me while I die laughing.

By humbug

January 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Just put Schafer in CF. Gives us a good glove and saves a lot of money. He is as ready as Frenchy or McCann was and they worked out pretty well. Quit spending a pile on injury plagued “names”.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Luther, now that you bring it up, I remember clearly the Nevilles’ cover of the song (very good), and when they used Waits’ original (great, obviously).

But I sure do remember them using Earle’s version for at least some episodes before this season.

By JerseyGil

January 9, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

DOB Great article…i agree the Braves need a Veteran in CF so those Kid can learn, until next year. DOB….Baseball is taking away real fan…my complaint, i tried to buy ticket to the opening Game in DC and all ticket are sold out, but is you go to stubhub, there are a tont of ticket for sale over $350.00 in any location, that is wrong, real fan can’t afford those pricing, i guess i have to wait until end of Aug to see my braves at DC new park.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Oh, and coach: Glad that the Sox eating half of Crisp’s contracts sounds “about right” to you.

Man, it’s a very reasonable contract. Why would they eat half of it?

By Lew

January 9, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

What bothers me about all these “stop gap” center fielders mentioned (that we don’t already have under contract) is that none are offensively strong players. Crisp is nothing to write home about. Patterson is the Funk and Wagnell’s definition of “disappointing player who never lives up to expectations”. Kotsay is, as Coach says, the DL waiting to happen. They are all spoken of as good defensive players.

Well, isn’t that what we have in Blanco and Anderson- great defensive players who are questionable offensively? If such is the case, then why spend the money and/or prospects for Kotsay, Cereal Dude, or Corey the Almost, but never Was? Makes no sense whatsoever.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Coach

“Sure Patterson plays great defense , but so does Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer. Not to mention the fact that they will both make the major league minimum if they make the 2008 squad.”

Well said. I’m sure Wren (and Bobby) feel the same way.

As for Patterson? I’m with you. TOTAL waste of money, unless he’s willing to sign for the league minimum and “compete” with Anderson and Schafer for the job. If that’s the case, I’d be all for it, competition is good for all players involved, if the deck isn’t stacked.

But I agree that if Patterson is around, Mr. Predictable will put him in the lead-off spot, which would be bad. If I’m wrong, and Bobby would bat him 8th……then WHY BOTHER??

Certainly Anderson and (or) Schafer play great defense while batting 8th and get on base about 30 percent of the time, right?

Kotsay is more intriguing, yet still not the right move, unless Oakland eats MOST of the contract (not just half), especially if we give anybody up for him.

That being said, the only thing holding me back from saying GO GET HIM, (and letting Anderson and Schafer get more time in the minors), is the injury history.

If Kotsay’s gonna get hurt and one of those two (if not both) are gonna be called up at some point anyhow, why bother.

Certainly, one doesn’t think that the “extra” two months of minor league seasoning that McCann had in 2005, made THAT MUCH difference in his advancement, right? Plus Anderson was already called up last September. If he’s not ready by opening day, what makes anybody think he will be MORE ready in June?

Go with the kids. To hell with a platoon. Whichever of Schafer or Anderson has the better spring (or looks like their approach is better), let that one play everyday and bat 8th. Who knows? Maybe an injury dictates who plays and who doesn’t.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I understand you don’t need me to give you projections about players DOB, but I don’t like hearing you give me the Braves brass’ spin on Josh Anderson. (“Unless him and Schafer both look completely overmatched this spring, which seems unlikely in Anderson’s case, given how well Anderson played in his September callup with the ‘Stros.”)

Seems unlikely? I would say based on his minor league career and current major league projections it seems LIKELY that he will be overmatched. You put more stock in his 67 major league at-bats than his entire minor league career DOB? I’m not trying to be an a$$ about this, I just have a hard time believing Josh Anderson can do anything more than cost us WINS (which is what a below average major league regular does!)

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

And yes DOB I saw your response to the Kelly Johnson comment, but that isn’t what I mean. Of course Anderson S U C K S compared to Kelly Johnson, that is a no-brainer. What I am saying is that Anderson S U C K S compared to the average National League center-fielder…

By Braves Fan 79

January 9, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

glad we got Javy back….hell be a better bat off the bench that half of our bench combined last year! As long as hes 70% of what he once was offensively…hell be a BIG addition to the bench!
Go Braves! World Series or bust!

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 9, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

As time goes on I really think Corey Patterson may be the best option for CF. He would perfectly fill that role of “stop gap” centerfielder. I think he can be had for cheap. He and Boras may envision a 3 year contract at $6 to $8 mil a year but it isn’t reality. If he hasn’t been signed to such a contract by now, then its never going to happen. Basically every team (except the Braves) has a suitable option in CF. I guess I should say the Orioles really don’t but if they wanted Patterson they would’ve already snatched him up. Besides, Patterson may be willing to play for the Braves in ‘08 on the cheap. He would be back home so he would likely feel comfortable and could have a breakout season. We all know one breakout season no matter how much of an anomaly it might be can bring a multitude of wealth.

Don’t believe me? Ask Aaron Rowand. Really look at Rowand’s numbers before last year and then ask yourself is he worth anywhere near the contract he was signed to.

By Jim Smoltz

January 9, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Are the Braves still trying to acquire Fuentes? My impression is that the holdup is $$$$. AM I correct?

If I am, then Kotsay makes no snese. Why spend $$$ on him when you could spend it on Fuentes. My hunch is that if the Braves don’t acquire another good arm for the bullpen, they will regret it big time.

Good news about Ohman attending Fan Fest, after all we’ve heard about attitude, etc with the Cubs. Shows that he appears to be comfortable with being a Brave.Let us know your impression of him if you talk with him at the Fest. Thanks, David.

By brian

January 9, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I do not have a strong preference between Kotsay or Patterson and I think either would be a good addition to the Braves. Kotsay is the better role model for Schafer and is more reliable than Patterson WHEN healthy. Patterson probably would be more durable, possibly has a higher ceiling, and will not cost the Braves anything in a trade.

DOB - what or whom do you think Kotsay would cost the Braves if the A’s were to pick up $4 million on his contract?

By AdirondackDave

January 9, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

I agree with Coach, Lew, and others who can’t see the logic in going outside the organization for a good-field, not much else centerfielder. And paying millions for the privilege of doing so. Man, in my mind, I’d be making every effort to save that cash for Tex negotiations. Other than pitching, what’s more important to the team now than re-signing Tex?

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

“Patterson probably would be more durable, possibly has a higher ceiling, and will not cost the Braves anything in a trade.”

I agree with the first point (durability), and the third point (won’t cost us players via the trade), but that second point, kinda makes me giggle (did I just type giggle?).

“Ceiling”?? As Coach stated, he was drafted in 1998. Whatever ceiling the guy had, was reached LONG ago. He was obviously drafted too high.

Kotsay is (even when not 100 percent), is better than Patterson has ever looked (and probably ever will look), in a big league uniform.

Like I said before. Maybe we catch a half of a “Willie Harris” type season out of him, maybe (more than likely), not. But if he’s willing to sign on for little to nothing (around 1 million for 1 year), I see literally NO UPSIDE to going after the guy.

He’s Raul Mondesi. He’s Brian Jordan (the second time around), he’s Craig Wilson. Essentially, he’s a warm body to keep the “spot” warm until the kids are ready.

I’d be willing to bet, that Gregor Blanco is a better option than wasting money on Patterson for a year, and what has Blanco done? Not much.

I guess that makes it clear where I stand on Patterson, huh? LOL!

How’s that Braveheart, for “negativity”?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , we fleeced the Red Sox with the Renteria trade. Two all-star caliber seasons , 11 million in cash and then traded him for two young prospects in Jurrjens and Hernandez.

Why not do it again ? I don’t know if it’s possible to persuade them to eat half of the cereal man’s contract. It certainly can’t hurt to try.

Hell , I view Crisp as nothing more than a band aid stopgap until Schafer is ready. The man can switch hit , play solid defense , has some power and like Renteria , might benefit from a change of scenery.

N8 , O’Brien was totally correct on one point. The Braves and Bobby Cox will want to go with four outfielders. That means the Braves have to find another CF , preferably a veteran. Francoeur in RF , Josh Anderson splitting time between LF and CF , a starting veteran in CF , Diaz in LF. Or Brandon Jones in LF if he proves capable , leaving Diaz out of a job and possibly trade bait because Cox will want to go with a five man bench consisting of three infielders (1B and two on the left side of the infield), one catcher and a fourth outfielder.

Mike Cameron is still on the radar. However , that 25 game suspension and his desire for a multi-year contract make him a real long shot.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

What we really need to do (and if money wasn’t an issue he’d already be on the team in my opinion) is sign Mike Cameron. He is by far the best option still available and he wants to play for the Braves; but bottom line our payroll is about at its limit and we can’t AFFORD Cameron, period.

By Yars

January 9, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

I kinda hope Wren lets Anderson & Schafer battle it in spring training for the CF job. If he does decide on another option, I’d take Patterson over Kotsay. I don’t want to see Yunel or KJ in the leadoff spot. now playing: This Fire by franz ferdinand

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

I think getting Patterson or Crisp COULD make sense.

If the Braves were getting them to be the leadoff guy, then it would not make little sense. But as an 8 hitter? What’s the big deal? Patterson and Crisp were once big time prospects and have been disappointing to say the least. But they are 27 now and will be 28 next year. Sometimes, players like them have a light turn on all of a sudden at their age and they are good for 3 or 4 years before fading away again. The Braves could catch lightning in a bottle.

If not, then, oh well. At the very least, Yunel has replaced Edgar, Tex has replaced Andruw, Crisp/Patterson has replaced Thorman, Brandon Jones has replaced Willie Harris/Langerhans. It’s a better lineup overall especially since Tex is such a HUGE improvement over Andruw.

As bad as you think Crisp/Patterson are, .320 OBP/.380 SLG out of Crisp, or .310 OBP/.400 SLG out of Patterson is better than what the Braves were getting out of Thorman last year with his pitiful .258 OBP/.394 SLG.

To be honest, it’s about what Andruw did last year as well and the Braves still scored 5 runs a game with Andruw stinking it up in the cleanup spot. But neither Crisp nor Patterson would be hitting cleanup. They would be hitting 8th.

Sure, Crisp/Patterson might not be much better than Blanco/Anderson in terms of results but they are much better than Blanco/Anderson in potential. There is no potential for a lightning in a bottle upside with Blanco/Anderson like there is with Crisp/Patterson.

Playing for Bobby Cox and playing in Atlanta, which is often called Black Mecca, may be just the comfort level Crisp/Patterson need to give us some lightning in a bottle. Patterson would also be coming home to Georgia. And it could not hurt to have another black player or two on the team to help a young black rookie like Brandon Jones feel more comfortable.

I’m not counting on a lightning strike or anything and won’t be brokenhearted if it does not happen but there is nothing to lose besides $3 or $4 million and perhaps an expendable minor leaguer or two if the guy is Crisp. So what? If the Braves could waste about $3 or $4 mil combined last year on Woodward, Wilson, and Redman, they can afford to expend that on either Crisp or Patterson.

As for Kotsay, I don’t know. Last year really scares me off him. I’m not sure if there is much upside left or if he can even get back to normal.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.

Sure , he is 40 , but still highly productive. Lofton can still motor , plays defense , hit for average , steal a few bases and provide a veteran presence in the clubhouse.

We are talking a one year contract , 2or 3 million at most. The man has even more value when considering what he can do for a team in the post season. Now , if we can get Cox to sign off on it.

He hit .296 last season with an OBP of .367. Stole 23 bases , scored 86 runs and had more walks than strike outs (56 to 51).

Yep , I think he is a better stopgap option than anybody else at the moment when considering value and cost.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Don & Coach

Cameron falls into the Patterson category for me (but for different reasons).

Since Cameron wants (and more than likely will receive) a longer contract, it makes ZERO sense for us to pursue him.

However, if the ownership were willing and able to approve a little more payroll, signing Cameron to a one year deal for around 8 million (more like 6 million with the suspension), he might not be a bad option.

Of course, that doesn’t solve who plays CF in April, does it?

Don

You said:

“(and if money wasn’t an issue he’d already be on the team in my opinion)….but bottom line our payroll is about at its limit and we can’t AFFORD Cameron, period.”

I disagree with the reasoning (can’t afford). I believe, since we are more in need for a guy in April, than we will be later in the year, that it is the suspension, NOT the money that has kept the Braves from already signing Cameron. If they truly thought that he was the “one year” fix, to gap between the kids AND help us win NOW, they’d make the money work. But this team needs to come out of the gate smokin’, IMO, and having your starting CF miss the first month, doesn’t help you do that.

Just my opinion.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

i know it is a moot point but we should of gone after josh hamilton.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Coach

“Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.”

I said the same thing two months ago, and I still stand by the reasoning. If and when one of the kids took over for him (if in the middle of 2008), then we’d have ourselves a KILLER 4th OF, with speed that could PH, steal a base and spell any of the other OF, if necessary.

But it was made VERY clear when I mentioned it, that it wasn’t going to happen, because he’s NOT a “Bobby Cox kind of club-house guy”.

Kinda lets you know how “serious” Bobby is about winning, huh?

By Canuckbravesfan

January 9, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

What is it with Gregor Blanco ??? Is this guy so weak that he won’t even get a look in Spring Training ?? I just checked his winter league stats in Venezuela (which seems to be a hitters league as opposed to the Dominican Winter League. In 62 games in CF he made one error (1)—finished 2nd in the league batting .341 (.371 vs. lefties) had an OBP of .445 and OPS of .930—if he was such a poor prospect why did he get promoted every season and perform well at each level, including Richmond in 2007. If the stats lie that much, why bother even quoting any minor league numbers ???

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.

Coach, we’ve had our words but that cussed and discussed line made me LOL. Well done, my fr-enemy.

I think Lofton is the best option as well. HOWEVER, I think Wren will discuss Lofton and Cox will cuss Lofton and that will be the end of that.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Signing Corey Patterson sounds a whole lot smarter than Arthur Blank signing Pete Carroll.

By Alan

January 9, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t see the Braves going into next season with a rookie in CF - and I absolutely don’t think either Kotsay or Patterson is the answer - short-term or otherwise. I agree with Coach and others who are promoting Crisp (Cereal Man - I like that), a switch-hitter with a bit of pop and good speed. Most importantly, he’s a very good fielder. As DOB has pointed out, Crisp’s contract is reasonable - and I’ll be the cost to get him would be reasonable, too - a mid-level prospect or two. I think he’s worth going after. My distant second choice would be Mike Cameron - distant because he’s past his prime and he has to sit out the first 25 games of the season. On the other hand, he’s a free agent, so that’s in his favor. Then, too, another trade could develop, seemingly out of the blue, maybe with a team like Kansas City for a guy like DeJesus or Gathright. Point is this: the Braves will do something - they’re not going to open the season with an unproven commodity taking Andruw Jones’s place.

By Steve McP

January 9, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

How can we platoon LF and Cf and then have 6 starters occasionally (as Smoltz mentioned he would like it, I imagine it could well happen) - perhaps we could have an extra roster player due to some obscure MLB rule about the average age of starters being over 37? Or maybe a new rule could be slipped in to the MLB rule book to that effect without anyone else noticing!

By Bryan

January 9, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

2nd funniest thing thing i have read all year:

{Vote Jimmy Carter 2008](http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/igotwhatamericaneeds_right)

read all the way to the bottom … funny stuff! Very vulgar!

By McFann

January 9, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Well, it took about as long as I had figured, but here it is: (Are you READY????)

After dissecting every game (sort of), I have the number of men left on base by Francoeur, McCann, A. Jones, and C. Jones. Let me just type that I was not too surprised by the outcome:

Andruw Jones: LOB: 322 (AVG of 2.08 per game)

Jeff Francoeur: LOB: 283 (AVG of 1.75 per game)

Brian McCann:LOB: 244 (AVG of 1.76 per game)

Chipper Jones:LOB: 232 (AVG of 1.74 per game)

So let’s see: Obviously they ALL could’ve had more RBIs, and obviously they can’t drive in everybody that gets on base in front of them, but my point still stands: Brian McCann not being able to score from second on a single is not the reason why Francoeur didn’t have more RBIs. And I know