Braves

By McFann

January 9, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

First? Didn’t think so…

By keylargo25

January 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

For some reason it never hit home today that we got a prospect who is not even mentioned as a possibility as a starter in CF and a guy who is mentioned as a potential number five starter for an All Star shortstop under contract for less than 6 million.

Compare this to what we gave up to get Tex and the trade just does not look good long term.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

efrim Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Brandon Morrow, George Sherrill and Carlos Triunfel are the guys being talked about. Not all five…but three of them with Adam Jones being a must for the O’s.

thanx for the info. you seem to know whats going on with this, do the braves have players that compare to these? does adam jones=jordan shaefer, jeff clement=clint sammons, brandon morrow=blaine boyer, george sherrill=royce ring, and carlos triunfel=brent lillibridge?

i still kinda wish we could get a guy like that, though i know wrens aint looking.

By Mac

January 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, Patterson bats lefthanded and so would not paltoon with other lefthanded hitters.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

HOLY COW!! I was first. Dang, of all times to type “Didn’t think so”!

Those RLOB stats are almost ready. in August now.

By StingerSplash

January 9, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Are you sure about former Harrison High tailback Corey Patterson batting right handed?

By Joe Smoe

January 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

DOB…Is it possible that the Braves will try to make a trade for Kotsay and Blanton or Street. Braves take the over paid salary, and A’s get less prospects the normal for Blanton. A salary dump and rebuild move for the A’s.

It fills two spots for the Braves. The only reason I see it not working perfectly is the Left handed bat, as pointed out above.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

DAP, how is it trivializing teamwork to say a triple should be weighed more in terms of run creation than a sac fly following that triple?

And bringing up single season results as a point seems to be a bit odd for you Payne. You love to highlight how single season results change when it suits the arguement, but here you point to 2007 AJ as a standard and norm of AJ.

Point is, you shouldn’t build around “RBI guys.” Because a guy that drives in less runs may be more valuable to your team if he gets on base more often and accrues more bases.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

yes, Mac. but his numbers vs. lefty pitchers were far better than vs. righties. Those were his splits last season.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

DOB,

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

thanx DOB, i cant wait for the news about CF to break!

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

That’s Steve Earle singing on The Wire? How the heck did I miss that for four years?!? I recognized the song, but never knew it was Earle.

By rainman

January 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Sorry to point it out Dave but patterson bats lefty and before this year was terrible against other lefties . I Still would love to have him I think he still has a nice upside to him plus maybe some home cooking would do him good. Thanks for your hard work this off season Dave and go Braves.

By BossLady

January 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Well, Well Well

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

DOB,

just dont think the braves need another left handed hitter in the lineup. could cause a ton of matchup problems late in games. now thats assuming thorman is still on the club.

By TennesseePaul

January 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog DOB. I’d rather see Kotsay than Patterson. Perhaps a deal can be swung that brings back both Blanton and Kotsay. Who knows.

From the previous blog (I posted just as DOB dropped the old and brought in the new)
Payne: DAP, actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra.

Most times in life you don’t get the total package. Can you fill out all 9 positions with guys who do both, hit the ball hard and far and get on base a lot? Probably not. But you could go with a good mix of guys who do both or one or the other (which is what I believe most teams attempt to do, putting the high OBP guys at the top of the order followed by guys who hit hard and far to drive them in). In the case of AJ, and most “RBI guys”, I think you’ll find they hit the ball hard and far. I can’t think of any light hitting players who consistantly tally up 90+ RBI seasons.
And bringing up single season results as a point seems to be a bit odd for you Payne. You love to highlight how single season results change when it suits the arguement, but here you point to 2007 AJ as a standard and norm of AJ. Yet in the past you’ve said you’d rather have AJ than a whole list of guys others have suggested.

McFann: If everybody on a team hits triples all the time, somebody is bound to score sometime.

This is true. But nobody would win. The game has to end for a victor to be declared and it has to at least get to the 5th before the game can be called. If no batter ever makes an out the game never exits the first inning and hence you have no winner.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

keylargo25 i think the situation called for a trade of either renteria or escobar, because they couldnt both start. so would you have traded escobar, who had a great year and is almost already as good as renteria, and under your control for years to come, or renteria, who is a great player but cost like 5.5 mil more and would only be there one more year?

By True Braves Fan

January 9, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Wilson, Jordan and Mondesi come to mind as outfielders tried by Braves in previous seasons. Don’t add Kotsay and Patterson to the list.

By Mark

January 9, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Corey Patterson bats left handed and would be a huge waste of a roster spot, even at $500,000, let alone $3 million.

Kotsay hasn’t been above average in quite some time and would be a waste of money for a team with little payroll flexibility and several injury concerns as is.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Ugh. Now somebody’s talkin’ about a player being too skinny?

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, it’s only been Earle singing the theme song the past two seasons. Before that, they had another theme song (can’t recall offhand, but it was also a good one).

Rainman, yes I realize that and corrected it. I was working quickly and just using his splits from last season. Went back and saw that indeed, he stunk vs. lefties before last season. Probably just a fluke one-year thing, unless he changed something fundamentally in his approach, which I doubt.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun how is it trivializing teamwork to say a triple should be weighed more in terms of run creation than a sac fly following that triple?

cause you dont get a run for a triple, even though youre only 90 feet away.

i dont think we really disagree as strongly as its sounding, we just express it in very different ways.

By GeorgetownKid

January 9, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

With the good but not great numbers that would be expected from Kotsay or Patterson, what do you think would be realistic numbers from Anderson?

From what I have read, I think it is realistic that he has a season similar to that of Kelly Johnson. He won’t draw as many walks, but he’ll be a viable base-stealing threat.

I think that is pretty good production from a guy making the league minimum. Would the slightly better production from a free agent be worth several million dollars?

That doesn’t seem to offer the Braves a very good return-on-investment.

By Efrim

January 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

DAP

thanx for the info. you seem to know whats going on with this, do the braves have players that compare to these? does adam jones=jordan shaefer, jeff clement=clint sammons, brandon morrow=blaine boyer, george sherrill=royce ring, and carlos triunfel=brent lillibridge?

No on all counts. At least that is what scouts say. If you even believe them. Schafer and Jones is close, but I think if you polled most baseball people, they would take Adam Jones. As for Clement and Sammons, no way. Boyer doesn’t come close to Morrow. Sherrill is one of the best LHP specialists in the league and I am not too sure on Lillibridge and Truinfel. Truinfel is like Elvis Andrus. Really too young to know. Who knows? Braves ain’t getting the guy.

I figure if the Braves were to offer something, it would be Schafer, Lillibridge, Rohrbough and Hanson. Way too much to trade for a guy who will most surely sign with the Yankees or Red Sox in two seasons. Though, we did give up 5 prospects for Tex and he will be gone at the end of this season…..

By McFann

January 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

10Paul If no batter ever makes an out the game never exits the first inning and hence you have no winner.

Well, that’s one way to look at it, I guess.

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Before that, they had another theme song (can’t recall offhand, but it was also a good one).

I can’t recall it, either. Just goes to show that a good Waits tune can make you forget most others. :-)

By flange1

January 9, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra. from Shaun

Shaun, in a perfect world you are correct, all 9 players would be guys that get on base a lot and hit the ball far and hard.

Reality is more that you have some guys that get on base alot, some guys that hit the ball far and hard, some guys that do both and some guys that do neither.

My belief is that for a real baseball team not a fantasy team, you have to have a balance of the first 3. On my real team, the 1, 2 and 8 hitters get on base alot, the 3,4 and 5 guys hopefully get on base alot and hit the ball hard and far and the 6 and 7 guys either hit the ball hard and far or get on base alot.

It’s is great to talk philosophy all we want about the perfect offensive team, but in the real world, we have to settle for the players on the team and available to the team and then place them in the order that we think will maximize offensive productivity.

I know that you don’t believe that position in the batting order means alot, but on a real live team, I believe it does.

By Random

January 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Triples vs. SF:

Y’all’re arguing apples and oranges.

A triple may or may not produce a run (or runs), whereas by definition a sac fly does produce a run. If you normalize the context of your argument (stipulating a man on third), then it’s the no-brainer that Shaun makes it out to be — of course the triple is better. If you make your argument context-free (independent of whether there are base-runners), the “sac fly” is just a fly out which may or may not bring home a run (just as a triple may or may not bring home a run), and it’s still a no-brainer, since the triple does not yield an out and leaves a man on base. Sheeeeeeesh. (Plus, a triple is more than three times as likely to produce a run than a fly out.)

(Though I’ve got to disagree with you, Shaun, when you say It’s a question of what’s more valuable, a guy who hits fly balls or a guy who gets extra-base hits — after all, most triples are fly balls that were simply not caught.)

Finally, if you go back to the initial premise as DAP does (if there’s a triple then a sac fly …), even in this limited and specific context (stipulating bases empty, and sequencing the triple before the sac fly), it’s a no-brainer, since the triple is the necessary sine qua non precursor of the sac fly. (A sac fly is possible if and only if there’s a man on third.)

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

TPaul, we need some park-adjusted opinions on here, man, LOL.

Triples and sac flies? Can you park-adjust those? Just checking. :-)

By Random

January 9, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Au contraire, I believe that the Braves considered their major offseason work completed after they traded Ascanio for Ohman and Infante.

By Steve in DC

January 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

It’s always been “Down in the hole,” on The Wire, though they’ve typically had a different version by a different artist every single season.

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

OK, Lord, you can take me now…I’ve lived to see “sine qua non” used on the Braves/MIB blog. :-)

By N8

January 9, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN:

It has been reported that David Wright’s attourneys are holding a press conference in which they will play a tape recording of a conversation between he and Roger Clemens discussing Clemens’ personal trainer injecting shots of Wright’s DNA into Clemens’ azz.

Seems Clemens wanted to be “as good as I can be, and found nobody better than David Wright to steal DNA from”.

When reached for comment, Wright said (through his attourney), that he didn’t have a problem with Clemens doing so, in fact he is flattered. But didn’t appreciate the DNA being stolen, and is suing Clemens for 500 million dollars.

As a side note, Wright’s attourney also mentioned that David Wright made the NFL ALL PRO TEAM (at 3 different positions).

By flange1

January 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

I liked “if and only if” better. Reminded me of Linear Equations and UGA!!!

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve.

They don’t have a different version this season — same as last year, by Earle.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

I also would build my team around guys who get on base as much as possible and who hit the ball hard and far as often as possible.

Everyone wants someone who can get on base and hit the ball as hard and as far as possible. Generally, that will create runs and win lots of games. But they would also like their hitters to be good situational hitters. To be able to take an outside pitch and go the other way, to draw a walk, to ground out to second so the runner on third can score, to ground out to second so the runner on second can advance to third, to be able to fly out to the deep outfield to get a runner on second over to third or to get a runner to score from third, to be able to steal a base, to be able bunt your way on to base, to be able to bunt a runner over, to be able to fake the bunt or have the defense be aware of the real potential of the bunt so the infield is somewhat drawn in and the hitter can more easily sneak a hit through the infield. Too often people want to claim it is just bad luck when a team loses a close game against an evenly matched team when it is really poor execution of those other pesky situational small ball things in the late innings that affect the outcome.

It’s hard to remember many games where the Braves executed these kinds of things well late in close games. They would often get people on base but no one could timely execute the big things or small things needed to get the run home. The Braves just don’t have enough hitters who pose those smallball threats when the situation calls for it. And Bobby Cox does not seem to care that much about it. Unless the hitter in question is Kelly Johnson. He fails to drop a bunt and is put into a platoon and yanked out of the leadoff spot.

By hk

January 9, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

… Conference Strengths (bar graph) based on AP poll raw data, today vs back in September …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/div2007.htm

By cricket

January 9, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

I am going to start a team, the Homerrers, with all the hitters that are home run guys. My team will score more runs than the Tripllers, since the frequency at which a real life hitter can hit triples or different game time situations which cause a real life hitter to alter his game plan, are not the constraints. I will get all these homer hitters from the town right next to where all the Tripllers come from. Off course in this fantastic league, the RBIers will hardly score any runs as they wouldn’t know what to do when there are no base runners.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

“Then again, if they have to go with speedy rook Anderson, I think they’re prepared to do that. Unless him and Schafer both look completely overmatched this spring, which seems unlikely in Anderson’s case, given how well Anderson played in his September callup with the ‘Stros.”

Whoa DOB, no need to try and give us that warm and snuggly feeling when it comes to Josh Anderson. He projects to be (at best) a fringe major leaguer. He had an OPS slightly above .700 in his minor league career, which Bill James projects at the major league level as a .223 average, .257OBP, and a .277 Slugging %…. A .534 OPS!!! .534! I for one will trust a minor league career which spans 5 years and 1,000+AB’s over 67 at-bats in a September call-up. That is the freaking definition of small sample size right there.

I appreciate the optimism DOB, but I for one would be frightened if Anderson is starting in CF on March 31 in Washington…

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

GeorgetownKid, you wrote of Josh Anderson: “From what I have read, I think it is realistic that he has a season similar to that of Kelly Johnson.”

Are you kidding? GK, Kelly Johnson hit .276 with 26 doubles, 10 triples, 16 homers, 91 runs, 68 RBIs, a .375 OBP and a .457 slugging percentage.

Are you freakin’ kidding me that you really think Josh Anderson can produce anywhere even remotely similar numbers to those?

Anderson’s BEST single-season totals in five seasons in the MINORS were 26 doubles (2006), six homers (2004) and 52 RBIs (2004), and he hit .300 (.308) once in the minors, slugged as high as .390 just once, and had an OBP as high as .350 just once — and that’s in the MINORS.

And you believe he can do what Kelly Johnson did, or even remotely close to what KJ did, in Anderson’s first season in the majors?

No way. NO. WAY.

By Roger Clemens

January 9, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Multiple choice question. Which of the following is the most correct about me:

a. I did not have injection relations with that woman, Ms. McNamee

b. I did have a relationship with Miss McNamee that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. I misled people, including even my wife Andy. I deeply regret that.

c. I injected but did not inhale.

d. The last 10 years of my career has been a vast conspiracy led by my right wing.

By Skeeter

January 9, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

I am going to start a team, the Homerrers, with all the hitters that are home run guys. My team will score more runs than the Tripllers, since the frequency at which a real life hitter can hit triples or different game time situations which cause a real life hitter to alter his game plan, are not the constraints. I will get all these homer hitters from the town right next to where all the Tripllers come from. Off course in this fantastic league, the RBIers will hardly score any runs as they wouldn’t know what to do when there are no base runners.

Don’t forget to configure a walkers and an OBPers team as well. It will be fun too see how many men they can get on base without scoring.

Always remember this: The object of this silly game we call baseball is to get on base and create runs, not to actually score runs.

By JC FROM UT

January 9, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any chance the Braves look into what it would take to sign Mike Cameron? We all know he can play defense and if he can hit around .240-.250 with a little power it will be as good as AJ was last season.

By doc

January 9, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

i see roger finally got smart. really good post and one you should have given yourself credit for rather than rocket.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Where is our CF gonna hit in the lineup?

8th is my choice. Yunel should be 1st. That way he would cut down on his swing and make him even a better contact hitter. Plus he is a better baserunner than KJ. There is more of a chance to find KJ on base once he comes to bat than the other way around. I think Yunel is a better option to cover for the missing Renteria, but you cant have him batting 1st and 2nd (woooooow!!!), so 1st ill think is our best option.

By AdirondackDave

January 9, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

keylargo25 — The Renteria and Tex deals are not comparable. I was a big Edgar fan but his defensive skills are in decline which is not surprising. Tex is still young and conceiveably getting even better (hard to believe given his career so far).

I’m not one of those who write off Tex after ‘08. I think the Braves will make a strong and probably creative offer to him in the 20M-22M per year range. Sure maybe the Yanks or Mets dangle more money but my guess there’s a 40 maybe even 50% chance he’ll re-sign with the Braves. Some local ties work in the Braves favor somewhat.

By Luther

January 9, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

I saw that Earle sings this seasons’s theme on the credits. Here is what IMDB has for performer for the rest of the seasons(same song throughout): 1.Blind Boys of Alabama 2.Tom Waits 3.Neville Brothers 4. Ivan Ashford, Markel Steele, Cameron Brown, Tariq Al-Sabir and Avery Bargasse

This could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure it sounded like the Neville Brothers in season 3. Agree, its the best show on in my opinion.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , I hate to blow holes in your Mark Kotsay theory. But , the man is a D.L. candidate waiting to happen. His back injury has been an ongoing ordeal since the middle of the 2005 season. He has missed the better part of 150 games since June 5th 2005 due to what is pretty much the same thing and I’ll be more than happy to post his injury history.

Basically , the man has been to Oakland what Hampton has been for the Braves. Don’t get me wrong , Kotsay is a great talent and clubhouse presence who would have a positive impact on the younger players with his all out style of play and bazooka for a throwing arm.

If Oakland were to eat the vast majority of his 7 million dollar contract in 2008 , give him to the Braves for next to nothing and persuade Kotsay to forego his limited no-trade clause , sure why not.

As for Cory Patterson , please tell me you are joking. His 5 to 1 strikeout/walk ratio is brutal. Career .298 OBP , ridiculous. Career .258 BA , putrid. Did I mention the fact that I hate underachievers. (Patterson was the 3rd pick in the 1998 draft).

Sure Patterson plays great defense , but so does Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer. Not to mention the fact that they will both make the major league minimum if they make the 2008 squad.

I’ll stick with the cereal man , thank you very much. The Braves persuaded Boston to pay part of Renteria’s contract (11 million in cash). I see no reason why they can’t go the same route with Coco Crisp. I don’t see the Braves giving up anymore for Crisp than they gave up for Renteria.

Trading Gregor Blanco and or Martin Prado for Crisp while getting the Sox to eat half of the cereal man’s contract seems about right.

By rainman

January 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

I just cant see us not getting someone else for center. Everything we have done has said we are going for it. Glav and Tex are gone after this year. So what is 5 or 6 mill if it is what puts you over the top or at least keeps us from having a weak spot.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with you Dave about Tex, it is clear some players, we all humans do, take a little less money for a better place to work. The pressure and unfairness in NY is so high sometimes no amount of money makes for the damage. If i was a baseball player (thinking as a human being) i would take 4 years 80 million in atlanta over 5 million 125 in NY. 80 million (which will become less with taxes etc) are enough to live your live, a better live and your children and grandsons can even taste some. So why go into so much trouble in NY. If not…….as Torre, Clemens, Randolph, Glavine, Jose Reyes, ARod, etc.

By GM

January 9, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Please no more has been / washed up players….give youth a chance. Why waste money or young talent for a stop gap player. Unless a miracle happens and all four of the Braves old horse starters are able to finish the season without a trip to the DL the Braves want be contending for the East title. Build the team with strong pieces for the future and quit trying to fill holes is already on the roster.

By Salty

January 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Random Isn’t it only a sac fly if a run scores, not just advance a base? If so, a triple doesn’t mean a run; a sac fly does.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Coach, no need to apologize — you didn’t blow holes in anything.

Oh, and it’s an $8 mill contract, not $7 mill.

Kotsay would be to Oakland what Hampton’s been to Atlanta if Kotsay had played zero games the past two years, as Hampton’s done. Pretty simple comparison, really.

By keylargo25

January 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

DAP & AdirondakDave

My point with the trade is that we did not get anyone who is going to contribute from opening day on. We debated ER vs. Escobar from every angle and that is not my point. (although I would like to have seen more time in the majors and proof his attitude is straightened out from Escobar).

Another point about the trade is that we shopped ER for how long - 10 minutes before trading him to Detroit and the best GM in the majors Dave Dombrowski. I’m not getting on Frank Wren but I live down in South Florida and the Marlins are STILL bringing up people Dombrowski traded for when he was here.

By D-Cider

January 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

The Neville Bros. did “down in the hole” the first season on the wire.
I thought Patterson improved a lot for the O’s last year, but he still has some serious holes in his swing. he also seemed to do better batting 2nd in the lineup than and can steal you 30-40 bases a year. Steve Earle needs to do something with that hair!

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

DonC, I ain’t giving you the warm-and-snuggly anything, as you can see by my response to GeorgetownKid regarding Anderson.

Not to come off wrong, but your really don’t need to explain to me anything about what he or any other current player projects to be over his career. But thank you.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , your right. The Braves have received nothing from Hampton during the 2006-2007 seasons while insurance has covered roughly half his contract.

Oakland has gotten 8 HR’s 79 RBI and a .257 BA from Kotsay the past two seasons while paying him 15 million.

The A’s are way ahead. Now ,excuse me while I die laughing.

By humbug

January 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Just put Schafer in CF. Gives us a good glove and saves a lot of money. He is as ready as Frenchy or McCann was and they worked out pretty well. Quit spending a pile on injury plagued “names”.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Luther, now that you bring it up, I remember clearly the Nevilles’ cover of the song (very good), and when they used Waits’ original (great, obviously).

But I sure do remember them using Earle’s version for at least some episodes before this season.

By JerseyGil

January 9, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

DOB Great article…i agree the Braves need a Veteran in CF so those Kid can learn, until next year. DOB….Baseball is taking away real fan…my complaint, i tried to buy ticket to the opening Game in DC and all ticket are sold out, but is you go to stubhub, there are a tont of ticket for sale over $350.00 in any location, that is wrong, real fan can’t afford those pricing, i guess i have to wait until end of Aug to see my braves at DC new park.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Oh, and coach: Glad that the Sox eating half of Crisp’s contracts sounds “about right” to you.

Man, it’s a very reasonable contract. Why would they eat half of it?

By Lew

January 9, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

What bothers me about all these “stop gap” center fielders mentioned (that we don’t already have under contract) is that none are offensively strong players. Crisp is nothing to write home about. Patterson is the Funk and Wagnell’s definition of “disappointing player who never lives up to expectations”. Kotsay is, as Coach says, the DL waiting to happen. They are all spoken of as good defensive players.

Well, isn’t that what we have in Blanco and Anderson- great defensive players who are questionable offensively? If such is the case, then why spend the money and/or prospects for Kotsay, Cereal Dude, or Corey the Almost, but never Was? Makes no sense whatsoever.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Coach

“Sure Patterson plays great defense , but so does Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer. Not to mention the fact that they will both make the major league minimum if they make the 2008 squad.”

Well said. I’m sure Wren (and Bobby) feel the same way.

As for Patterson? I’m with you. TOTAL waste of money, unless he’s willing to sign for the league minimum and “compete” with Anderson and Schafer for the job. If that’s the case, I’d be all for it, competition is good for all players involved, if the deck isn’t stacked.

But I agree that if Patterson is around, Mr. Predictable will put him in the lead-off spot, which would be bad. If I’m wrong, and Bobby would bat him 8th……then WHY BOTHER??

Certainly Anderson and (or) Schafer play great defense while batting 8th and get on base about 30 percent of the time, right?

Kotsay is more intriguing, yet still not the right move, unless Oakland eats MOST of the contract (not just half), especially if we give anybody up for him.

That being said, the only thing holding me back from saying GO GET HIM, (and letting Anderson and Schafer get more time in the minors), is the injury history.

If Kotsay’s gonna get hurt and one of those two (if not both) are gonna be called up at some point anyhow, why bother.

Certainly, one doesn’t think that the “extra” two months of minor league seasoning that McCann had in 2005, made THAT MUCH difference in his advancement, right? Plus Anderson was already called up last September. If he’s not ready by opening day, what makes anybody think he will be MORE ready in June?

Go with the kids. To hell with a platoon. Whichever of Schafer or Anderson has the better spring (or looks like their approach is better), let that one play everyday and bat 8th. Who knows? Maybe an injury dictates who plays and who doesn’t.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I understand you don’t need me to give you projections about players DOB, but I don’t like hearing you give me the Braves brass’ spin on Josh Anderson. (“Unless him and Schafer both look completely overmatched this spring, which seems unlikely in Anderson’s case, given how well Anderson played in his September callup with the ‘Stros.”)

Seems unlikely? I would say based on his minor league career and current major league projections it seems LIKELY that he will be overmatched. You put more stock in his 67 major league at-bats than his entire minor league career DOB? I’m not trying to be an a$$ about this, I just have a hard time believing Josh Anderson can do anything more than cost us WINS (which is what a below average major league regular does!)

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

And yes DOB I saw your response to the Kelly Johnson comment, but that isn’t what I mean. Of course Anderson S U C K S compared to Kelly Johnson, that is a no-brainer. What I am saying is that Anderson S U C K S compared to the average National League center-fielder…

By Braves Fan 79

January 9, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

glad we got Javy back….hell be a better bat off the bench that half of our bench combined last year! As long as hes 70% of what he once was offensively…hell be a BIG addition to the bench!
Go Braves! World Series or bust!

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 9, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

As time goes on I really think Corey Patterson may be the best option for CF. He would perfectly fill that role of “stop gap” centerfielder. I think he can be had for cheap. He and Boras may envision a 3 year contract at $6 to $8 mil a year but it isn’t reality. If he hasn’t been signed to such a contract by now, then its never going to happen. Basically every team (except the Braves) has a suitable option in CF. I guess I should say the Orioles really don’t but if they wanted Patterson they would’ve already snatched him up. Besides, Patterson may be willing to play for the Braves in ‘08 on the cheap. He would be back home so he would likely feel comfortable and could have a breakout season. We all know one breakout season no matter how much of an anomaly it might be can bring a multitude of wealth.

Don’t believe me? Ask Aaron Rowand. Really look at Rowand’s numbers before last year and then ask yourself is he worth anywhere near the contract he was signed to.

By Jim Smoltz

January 9, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Are the Braves still trying to acquire Fuentes? My impression is that the holdup is $$$$. AM I correct?

If I am, then Kotsay makes no snese. Why spend $$$ on him when you could spend it on Fuentes. My hunch is that if the Braves don’t acquire another good arm for the bullpen, they will regret it big time.

Good news about Ohman attending Fan Fest, after all we’ve heard about attitude, etc with the Cubs. Shows that he appears to be comfortable with being a Brave.Let us know your impression of him if you talk with him at the Fest. Thanks, David.

By brian

January 9, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I do not have a strong preference between Kotsay or Patterson and I think either would be a good addition to the Braves. Kotsay is the better role model for Schafer and is more reliable than Patterson WHEN healthy. Patterson probably would be more durable, possibly has a higher ceiling, and will not cost the Braves anything in a trade.

DOB - what or whom do you think Kotsay would cost the Braves if the A’s were to pick up $4 million on his contract?

By AdirondackDave

January 9, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

I agree with Coach, Lew, and others who can’t see the logic in going outside the organization for a good-field, not much else centerfielder. And paying millions for the privilege of doing so. Man, in my mind, I’d be making every effort to save that cash for Tex negotiations. Other than pitching, what’s more important to the team now than re-signing Tex?

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

“Patterson probably would be more durable, possibly has a higher ceiling, and will not cost the Braves anything in a trade.”

I agree with the first point (durability), and the third point (won’t cost us players via the trade), but that second point, kinda makes me giggle (did I just type giggle?).

“Ceiling”?? As Coach stated, he was drafted in 1998. Whatever ceiling the guy had, was reached LONG ago. He was obviously drafted too high.

Kotsay is (even when not 100 percent), is better than Patterson has ever looked (and probably ever will look), in a big league uniform.

Like I said before. Maybe we catch a half of a “Willie Harris” type season out of him, maybe (more than likely), not. But if he’s willing to sign on for little to nothing (around 1 million for 1 year), I see literally NO UPSIDE to going after the guy.

He’s Raul Mondesi. He’s Brian Jordan (the second time around), he’s Craig Wilson. Essentially, he’s a warm body to keep the “spot” warm until the kids are ready.

I’d be willing to bet, that Gregor Blanco is a better option than wasting money on Patterson for a year, and what has Blanco done? Not much.

I guess that makes it clear where I stand on Patterson, huh? LOL!

How’s that Braveheart, for “negativity”?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , we fleeced the Red Sox with the Renteria trade. Two all-star caliber seasons , 11 million in cash and then traded him for two young prospects in Jurrjens and Hernandez.

Why not do it again ? I don’t know if it’s possible to persuade them to eat half of the cereal man’s contract. It certainly can’t hurt to try.

Hell , I view Crisp as nothing more than a band aid stopgap until Schafer is ready. The man can switch hit , play solid defense , has some power and like Renteria , might benefit from a change of scenery.

N8 , O’Brien was totally correct on one point. The Braves and Bobby Cox will want to go with four outfielders. That means the Braves have to find another CF , preferably a veteran. Francoeur in RF , Josh Anderson splitting time between LF and CF , a starting veteran in CF , Diaz in LF. Or Brandon Jones in LF if he proves capable , leaving Diaz out of a job and possibly trade bait because Cox will want to go with a five man bench consisting of three infielders (1B and two on the left side of the infield), one catcher and a fourth outfielder.

Mike Cameron is still on the radar. However , that 25 game suspension and his desire for a multi-year contract make him a real long shot.

By DonCoburleone

January 9, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

What we really need to do (and if money wasn’t an issue he’d already be on the team in my opinion) is sign Mike Cameron. He is by far the best option still available and he wants to play for the Braves; but bottom line our payroll is about at its limit and we can’t AFFORD Cameron, period.

By Yars

January 9, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

I kinda hope Wren lets Anderson & Schafer battle it in spring training for the CF job. If he does decide on another option, I’d take Patterson over Kotsay. I don’t want to see Yunel or KJ in the leadoff spot. now playing: This Fire by franz ferdinand

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

I think getting Patterson or Crisp COULD make sense.

If the Braves were getting them to be the leadoff guy, then it would not make little sense. But as an 8 hitter? What’s the big deal? Patterson and Crisp were once big time prospects and have been disappointing to say the least. But they are 27 now and will be 28 next year. Sometimes, players like them have a light turn on all of a sudden at their age and they are good for 3 or 4 years before fading away again. The Braves could catch lightning in a bottle.

If not, then, oh well. At the very least, Yunel has replaced Edgar, Tex has replaced Andruw, Crisp/Patterson has replaced Thorman, Brandon Jones has replaced Willie Harris/Langerhans. It’s a better lineup overall especially since Tex is such a HUGE improvement over Andruw.

As bad as you think Crisp/Patterson are, .320 OBP/.380 SLG out of Crisp, or .310 OBP/.400 SLG out of Patterson is better than what the Braves were getting out of Thorman last year with his pitiful .258 OBP/.394 SLG.

To be honest, it’s about what Andruw did last year as well and the Braves still scored 5 runs a game with Andruw stinking it up in the cleanup spot. But neither Crisp nor Patterson would be hitting cleanup. They would be hitting 8th.

Sure, Crisp/Patterson might not be much better than Blanco/Anderson in terms of results but they are much better than Blanco/Anderson in potential. There is no potential for a lightning in a bottle upside with Blanco/Anderson like there is with Crisp/Patterson.

Playing for Bobby Cox and playing in Atlanta, which is often called Black Mecca, may be just the comfort level Crisp/Patterson need to give us some lightning in a bottle. Patterson would also be coming home to Georgia. And it could not hurt to have another black player or two on the team to help a young black rookie like Brandon Jones feel more comfortable.

I’m not counting on a lightning strike or anything and won’t be brokenhearted if it does not happen but there is nothing to lose besides $3 or $4 million and perhaps an expendable minor leaguer or two if the guy is Crisp. So what? If the Braves could waste about $3 or $4 mil combined last year on Woodward, Wilson, and Redman, they can afford to expend that on either Crisp or Patterson.

As for Kotsay, I don’t know. Last year really scares me off him. I’m not sure if there is much upside left or if he can even get back to normal.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.

Sure , he is 40 , but still highly productive. Lofton can still motor , plays defense , hit for average , steal a few bases and provide a veteran presence in the clubhouse.

We are talking a one year contract , 2or 3 million at most. The man has even more value when considering what he can do for a team in the post season. Now , if we can get Cox to sign off on it.

He hit .296 last season with an OBP of .367. Stole 23 bases , scored 86 runs and had more walks than strike outs (56 to 51).

Yep , I think he is a better stopgap option than anybody else at the moment when considering value and cost.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Don & Coach

Cameron falls into the Patterson category for me (but for different reasons).

Since Cameron wants (and more than likely will receive) a longer contract, it makes ZERO sense for us to pursue him.

However, if the ownership were willing and able to approve a little more payroll, signing Cameron to a one year deal for around 8 million (more like 6 million with the suspension), he might not be a bad option.

Of course, that doesn’t solve who plays CF in April, does it?

Don

You said:

“(and if money wasn’t an issue he’d already be on the team in my opinion)….but bottom line our payroll is about at its limit and we can’t AFFORD Cameron, period.”

I disagree with the reasoning (can’t afford). I believe, since we are more in need for a guy in April, than we will be later in the year, that it is the suspension, NOT the money that has kept the Braves from already signing Cameron. If they truly thought that he was the “one year” fix, to gap between the kids AND help us win NOW, they’d make the money work. But this team needs to come out of the gate smokin’, IMO, and having your starting CF miss the first month, doesn’t help you do that.

Just my opinion.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

i know it is a moot point but we should of gone after josh hamilton.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Coach

“Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.”

I said the same thing two months ago, and I still stand by the reasoning. If and when one of the kids took over for him (if in the middle of 2008), then we’d have ourselves a KILLER 4th OF, with speed that could PH, steal a base and spell any of the other OF, if necessary.

But it was made VERY clear when I mentioned it, that it wasn’t going to happen, because he’s NOT a “Bobby Cox kind of club-house guy”.

Kinda lets you know how “serious” Bobby is about winning, huh?

By Canuckbravesfan

January 9, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

What is it with Gregor Blanco ??? Is this guy so weak that he won’t even get a look in Spring Training ?? I just checked his winter league stats in Venezuela (which seems to be a hitters league as opposed to the Dominican Winter League. In 62 games in CF he made one error (1)—finished 2nd in the league batting .341 (.371 vs. lefties) had an OBP of .445 and OPS of .930—if he was such a poor prospect why did he get promoted every season and perform well at each level, including Richmond in 2007. If the stats lie that much, why bother even quoting any minor league numbers ???

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it , Kenny Lofton might make more sense than most of the names already cussed and discussed.

Coach, we’ve had our words but that cussed and discussed line made me LOL. Well done, my fr-enemy.

I think Lofton is the best option as well. HOWEVER, I think Wren will discuss Lofton and Cox will cuss Lofton and that will be the end of that.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Signing Corey Patterson sounds a whole lot smarter than Arthur Blank signing Pete Carroll.

By Alan

January 9, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t see the Braves going into next season with a rookie in CF - and I absolutely don’t think either Kotsay or Patterson is the answer - short-term or otherwise. I agree with Coach and others who are promoting Crisp (Cereal Man - I like that), a switch-hitter with a bit of pop and good speed. Most importantly, he’s a very good fielder. As DOB has pointed out, Crisp’s contract is reasonable - and I’ll be the cost to get him would be reasonable, too - a mid-level prospect or two. I think he’s worth going after. My distant second choice would be Mike Cameron - distant because he’s past his prime and he has to sit out the first 25 games of the season. On the other hand, he’s a free agent, so that’s in his favor. Then, too, another trade could develop, seemingly out of the blue, maybe with a team like Kansas City for a guy like DeJesus or Gathright. Point is this: the Braves will do something - they’re not going to open the season with an unproven commodity taking Andruw Jones’s place.

By Steve McP

January 9, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

How can we platoon LF and Cf and then have 6 starters occasionally (as Smoltz mentioned he would like it, I imagine it could well happen) - perhaps we could have an extra roster player due to some obscure MLB rule about the average age of starters being over 37? Or maybe a new rule could be slipped in to the MLB rule book to that effect without anyone else noticing!

By Bryan

January 9, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

2nd funniest thing thing i have read all year:

{Vote Jimmy Carter 2008](http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/igotwhatamericaneeds_right)

read all the way to the bottom … funny stuff! Very vulgar!

By McFann

January 9, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Well, it took about as long as I had figured, but here it is: (Are you READY????)

After dissecting every game (sort of), I have the number of men left on base by Francoeur, McCann, A. Jones, and C. Jones. Let me just type that I was not too surprised by the outcome:

Andruw Jones: LOB: 322 (AVG of 2.08 per game)

Jeff Francoeur: LOB: 283 (AVG of 1.75 per game)

Brian McCann:LOB: 244 (AVG of 1.76 per game)

Chipper Jones:LOB: 232 (AVG of 1.74 per game)

So let’s see: Obviously they ALL could’ve had more RBIs, and obviously they can’t drive in everybody that gets on base in front of them, but my point still stands: Brian McCann not being able to score from second on a single is not the reason why Francoeur didn’t have more RBIs. And I know, I know! you weren’t typing that it was the “only reason”. But my point is that, the people in front of McCann could’ve had more RBIs than they did—McCann could’ve had more RBIs than he did—You can’t blame that on the players who get on base before them.

This study shows that Andruw Jones knocked in only 23% of runners that were on base when he came up to bat!! Chipper knocked in 31%, McCann knocked in 27%, and Francoeur knocked in 27%.

So naturally, Chipper was the best and AJ was the worst. But huh…”Slow Poke” and “Golden Boy” are tied……But of course, my figurings counted them driving in themselves…I’ll get back to you.

Just a little thought. Suffice to type, Francoeur had plenty of RBI opportunities. So to blame his RBI count on McCann’s slow shoes…well, that’s just crazy.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

“Braves will do something - they’re not going to open the season with an unproven commodity taking Andruw Jones’s place.”

You mean like they did with Furcal? Or was it when they did it last year with Johnson at 2B (of course the unknown there was his defense), or maybe it was when they were going to replace Ron Gant with Chipper Jones until he got hurt, whom they then replaced with Ryan Klesko?

It doesn’t happen very often, and when it does, it’s usually with a phenom like Chipper or Furcal.

That being said, it appears that they team is high enough on Schafer that if he has a monster spring, he very well could be the next phenom rookie to make a big jump.

Before you slam on my for saying Chipper was an unknown. Yeah, yeah, yeah….I know he was the #1 over all pick when they drafted him. But as I recall, he was very unimpressive in his September callup in 1993, and was coming off of a MAJOR surgery when they had him start in 1995. Of course his spring in 1994 was awesome, which is why he won the LF job.

So let’s wait until spring before saying there is no chance the Braves have a rookie in CF.

While it may be “likely” they go outside the organization to fill the roll, I would hardly say it’s a lock that they won’t go with a rookie, if no better option (both financially and ability wise), arises.

By bojangle

January 9, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

I was either asleep at the keyboard or in a daze from celebrating, somebody tell me….did the Braves get anything in return for “no value” A JONES?

By Hardcore for Francouer

January 9, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

This study shows that Andruw Jones knocked in only 23% of runners that were on base when he came up to bat!! Chipper knocked in 31%, McCann knocked in 27%, and Francoeur knocked in 27%.

If McCann could run, it would have been 28% for Francouer.

So there!

By bojangle

January 9, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Surely someone knows if the Dodgers gave up a month’s supply of Double Bubble, the telephone number for Britney’s mother…or did they just take him off our hands?

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

DOB

Will you humor me and tell me again, WHY IT IS that McCann will NEVER be considered by Bobby to bat in the 3rd spot in the order (even if Chipper is hurt)??

Just humor me, I wanna see if you answer it the same way you did last summer.

BTW: When you give the same answer (which I’m sure you will), it should clarify whether McFann is right or wrong in his assumption that McCann’s speed (or lack there of), cost Francoeur a few RBI.

Second question: If you were to “guess” at which player of the Braves starting 8 regulars from last year, would be MOST LIKELY to be held up at 3rd base on a single (when said runner started at 2nd base), or on a double (when they started at 1st base), who would you put money on?

I’m not saying that McCann cost Francoeur 50 RBI by batting ahead of him, and surely his being a good hitter surely created many RBI opportunities, but to say that McCann’s legs DIDN’T cost Francoeur (or whoever got hits behind him - Diaz, Wille, Julio, Thorman, Langerhans), is just silly?

Again, if DOB’s answer to my question of why he’s NOT a candidate for the 3-hole, is what it was last year (and a correct answer at that), then it certainly qualifies that he may have cost Francoeur some RBI’s.

By Steve McP

January 9, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Braves got a between rounds draft pick for Andruw because (despite 9 - or was it 10 - consecutive gold gloves) he was only a B grade free agent

By jay

January 9, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Whats up BRAVES fans? Just wanted to say a few things I have been thinking about in regaurds to the on comeing year. In my opinion I think we have enough players to get centerfield taken care of. My concern lie in the starting rotation. spot 1,2 are ok. But the problem just as last year is the rest of the line up. Being realistic we can’t expect that we will get anything from Hampton and even though we have Tommy back I’m not to sure if he is going to the pitcher we all hope. I see that we have some good young players to pick from and I think Bennet could still have an upside just by the way he ended last year. Looks like this year more than any recent years the braves are pulling out all stops. I think we have got a great chance this year. But if we can get one more ace type pitcher that would fit in any of the top three spots. That would put us over the hump, just in case one or more of our questionable starers doesn,t pan out. The defence will be fine. Even though I like Escobar,we are going to miss Renteria he was more than I ever thought we were going to get when I first found out we got him from Boston this guy is easly an upper level player. the only draw back was a weak arm, or I just could have been use to Furcals cannon. I said it once and I’ll say it again he will be missed. Is it me or do I get the feeling that we might lose a few veteran players after next year. And if we do won’t that free up money to sign Frenchy,Tex? My only plea is please go out and get us another top tier pitcher for this year that is all we need. GO BRAVES!!!

By McFann

January 9, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Oh really, Hardhead for Francoeur? Figure that out all on your own, did ya? Good land, man! Get over it!! Just because somebody is physically challenged in some way, well, that doesn’t give you any entitlement to blame someone else’s problems on him!!

For the record, have you ever watched McCann run in comparison to, oh say…Andruw Jones? When you watch Brian run, you can see that he is giving it all he’s got!! IMO, it’s kind of sad to watch him try so hard, but not go any faster. But Andruw, well, he just sort of “trots”, if you will, around the bases. Sure, he’s a little faster than McCann. But my point is, McCann tries as hard as he cann! So QUIT PICKING ON HIM!! SHEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!!

Gee wiz, I’m ready for some BASEBALL!!!

By JJMB

January 9, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Johnny Cash concert got cancelled. I guess all the murderers, rapists, and drug dealers at Folsom will be disappointed. Darn shame. Cash is such a hero for everyone. And to think, if Gary Michael Hilton had chopped off Meredith Emerson’s head in California, perhaps he would have gotten to see this concert. Darn shame. I think I’ll have a cry for Johnny’s memory.

By AthensEd.

January 9, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

I graduated from HHS with Corey Patterson and I can say first hand that he’s a team player and a very personable and hard-working guy. I really think he’d be very comfortable playing in Atlanta and he’d succeed in front of the hometown crowd, much like Francoeur and McCann.

By Greg

January 9, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

FREE GREGOR BLANCO

By McFann

January 9, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Look, I get it, OK? I know that if McCann was faster, Francoeur might have had some more RBIs.

But here’s my assignment for you people: You dissect a few games (as many as you like, as long as it exceeds 10) and tell me how many times you found that Francoeur singled with McCann on second and McCann did not score.

Does that make sense? Any takers?

BTW, are N8coeur and N8 the same blogger?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

N8 , somehow the relationship between Lofton and Cox did not go well during the one season he was a Brave. Probably because Lofton had the brakes put on his running game.

Check the numbers , his stolen bases went from 75 to 27 and back up to 54 after he left Atlanta. Hopefully , now that Kenny is no longer in his prime , this shouldn’t be an issue anymore.

Braveheart , thank you. Somehow I have the habit of being stubborn as mule and that can cut both ways , just ask Scott Thorman.

Lofton or Crisp would be fine with me. I’ll scream bloody murder if Cory Patterson ends up with anything more than than a minor league contract.

As bad as Andruw was last season , the Braves won’t be replacing his unique combination of defense and offense anytime soon. He will be missed.

Gregor Blanco is ready to contribute. It’s just that his potential is viewed by many within the organization to be a fourth outfielder at best.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Hey McFann, wouldn’t it be more simple to dissect the batting average of players with RISP, to show how “clutch” they are, (while taking into consideration how many AB’s in those situations into account), rather than RBI, in those situations?

I mean, seriously? If Francoeur (or anybody for that matter), comes up to the plate, with a runner on second and gets a hit, but the guy on base isn’t fast enough to score, correct me if I’m wrong, but he gets “credit” for a RLOB, right?

For example:

In 2007 alone, Francoeur had 52 AB’s with ONLY a runner on 2B. In those 52 AB’s he had 19 hits (.365), 2 of which were HR, and ONLY 14 RBI.

Let’s break that down a little. Since 2 of those 19 hits were HR, that means to of the 14 RBI were scored by himself. That leaves 17 other hits for 12 RBI. Keep in mind that I have taken Francoeur’s 21 infield hits into consideration, so I’m sure a few of them must have occured on these 17 “other” hits.

But still. McCann, in the same situations (ONLY a runner on 2B), was 10 for 48 (.208) with 9 RBI. Of the 10 hits, 1 was HR, so that leaves 9 other hits accounting for the other 8 RBI. Now, McCann only had 8 total infield hits for the year (which alone should tell you that he’s slower than molasses), so I highly DOUBT that all of them occurred in these exact situations.

I’m not so sure why you’re so damn defensive about a FRICKIN CATCHER having “catcher’s speed”. It’s the nature of the business. He’s slow now, and only gonna get slower as he gets older, unless he has McNamee come to Atlanta for sleepovers. :-)

The bottom line is this. McCann will cost ANYBODY hitting behind him, RBI opportunities (which in turn causes the braves a few runs over the course of the year), by being slower than average. But he will CREATE many more opportunities, than he kills, because he’s a good hitter who gets on base by walking or getting hits.

Face facts dude. He’s slow. But he’s a CATCHER, and a damn fine one at that. If somebody tells you he can’t HIT, as opposed to saying he’s slow….by all means, fly off the handle.

By Matt the Brave

January 9, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Oh dear Lordy no. Can you said Craig Wilson? Patterson may be a good stop-gap, but he’ll be pushed out the door by mid-season by the young guys. He’s batted .258 for his career, about to be 29, so the wheels are going to start to rust soon. However, that said, he’s been more productive in the last couple of years in Baltimore…but it’s a pretty good hitter’s park. Turner Field is definitely a pitcher’s park.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

McFann

“BTW, are N8coeur and N8 the same blogger?”

The answer would be yes.

When I post as N8,I’m at work. Recently, I’ve changed my moniker at home (more so to mock you) to N8coeur.

BTW, thanx for the homework assignment in your last post. But since I’ve only stated that McCann cost the Braves runs (and various hitters RBI), I’m not gonna find out specifically how many times Franceour has singled with McCann on 2nd.

Though since I just posted in my last post that Francoeur had 52 AB’s with ONLY (any) runner at 2nd, I’m gonna venture that many of those times it was McCann.

Anyhow, this topic is getting old, but I figured I needed to get my stat finding “chops” in shape for the regular season.

Camp DOB started this week (since football is essentially over for me), gotta get that last work-out in before spring training.

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Coach

“Check the numbers , his stolen bases went from 75 to 27 and back up to 54 after he left Atlanta.”

As much as I love to rag on Cox for his lack of letting base stealer’s, steal bases. I don’t believe that was the case with Lofton.

If you check the gamelogs for 1997, you’ll see that 10 of those 27 stolen bases were in April. Lofton got hurt, and missed 40 games that year, which obviously contributed to the lower number. Not to mention that when he WAS in the lineup, he wasn’t 100 percent, which explains the career HIGH of 20 caught stealing’s as well.

That and maybe not knowing the pitchers moves as well.

Also note, that we were 19-6 in April that year (.760) winning percentage. So while MANY have ragged on getting rid of Justice and Grissom, along with Dye, CLEARLY JS knew what he was getting (if Lofton was healthy), when making the moves to aquire Lofton and Tucker.

If I recall, it was the club-house Kenny Lofton, that Cox despised, something to do with playing loud music or something. You know….god forbid the team have some attitude or personality. LOL!

By brian

January 9, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

may have just seen the worst MTV unplugged show. Have no idea how old it is, but Bon Jovi just butchered too many songs. I usually love the unplugged shows but that was terrible

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Coach

Forgot to add this to the last post.

“Gregor Blanco is ready to contribute. It’s just that his potential is viewed by many within the organization to be a fourth outfielder at best.”

Exactly. Which makes him the PERFECT stop-gap for a month or two, until the future stars are ready. Certainly he could bat 8th and man CF until June or so, right?

I mean, after all, they let Langerhans stick around for a month or so (with no better options - other than Willie Harris - in sight), and I find it hard to belief that ANYBODY could have as bad of an April as Langerhans did last year, especially a guy with as good of OBP numbers as he’s had in the minors, not to mention he can obviously hit lefties too, which means NO PLATOON.

In fact, I’m SOLD!!! He’s the man. Bat him 8th, and we’ll see the same spark that Wille provided after his call-up, when he was still batting in the 8th hole. The RBI opportunities for KJ and Escobar will be plentiful.

Hell, maybe we should bat him ahead of Francoeur to boost his stats a bit, eh McFann? LOL!

By Bobbymahlon

January 9, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

I’ll say this more time I hate to see the Braves spend any money for Kotsay, Patterson or Crisp. When will we learn not to sign guys like these when we have young players who can do a better job like McCann and Franceour and Escobar have done in the past few years. We do not need guys like Woodward,Redmond,Jordan, Mondesi etc who we have to play and get nothing out of them and then have to let them go. Go with the young guys (youth must be served)it will cost us a lot less and use the money toward signing Franceour .

By N8coeur

January 9, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Alright, I’ve put in my 5000 word quota for the day. I’m out for a while.

Probably be back around midnight CDT, if anybody cares.

Sorry for the long posts (not really), but since I hardly posted all winter, I’m trying to catch up in about a week’s time. :-)

By Wayne in Utah (ever lurking in the blog shadows!)

January 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

CF musings

What I can’t see is where is the big difference between Patterson and Crisp??? To say that Patterson has disappointed (yes, he has) does not answer anything. What has he done the past couple of seasons? He has improved, albeit slightly.

What has Crisp done in the past two years? About the same roughly as Patterson.

Which will cost us the least, as we hope that by the All-Star break, maybe we won’t need them anymore, anyway!

Boston will NOT take Blanco & Prado for Crisp. Boston’s organization is not stupid. Those two are career AAAA players.

So, to get Crisp, we are going to have to give up something of value. I think if Patterson could be had for the same or a bit less salary, then go for him.

As for Kotsay, isn’t he the one with the “hot” wife??? Then, what is the hold-up? Make that trade, Frank Wren! Where is your head dude? Make the call!

Seriously, I think Kotsay would only be a good add if we were going to carry 5 outfielders. I think that only happens if we make some other trade to get a single person to cover several positions (first, third, 3rd catcher, etc….. a Brayan Pena type).

Any talk recently on picking up Randy Winn, after SF signed Rowand??? I think he would be an excellent addition.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

lofton and bobby did not get along because lofton did not want to be here. he hated bobby’s rule of no music in the clubhouse and he hated the fact he was not the “STAR” here.

now lofton has probably grown up a lot since then, but i dont think he can play center field anymore. no arm and average range.

By Wayne in Utah (ever lurking in the blog shadows!)

January 9, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

BTW, I too am OK with us going with the youguns in CF. Blanco, Anderson, Schafer. Heck, lets bring back Langerhans. Could he suck that bad two years in a row???

By Wayne in Utah (ever lurking in the blog shadows!)

January 9, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

uga How ya been? N8 I will anxiously await your return… that is, if I stay.

:-)

By BeachGaBulldog

January 9, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Since Patterson came up with the Cubs, he hasn’t done much. I definitely DO NOT want another Andruw Jones in centerfield. Patterson is supposedly a great defensive player? I just don’t think that the Braves will get much in the way of production from him.

By Romal Gal

January 9, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

McFann, I decided to take you up on that challenge of yours. However, I only got through April and May because I am about to go watch a movie. Anyways, from the looks of it, McCann cost Francoeur 4 rbi’s in April and May. That’s not counting any potential sac flies because that would be too hard to figure without gameday or actually seeing it. If I remember correctly, he got a little bit worse as the season wore on (mostly because he started playing more and more once Salty was traded.)

Since that was two months (in which he didn’t play as much) and the season is six months, you could argue that McCann cost Frenchy approximately 12 rbi’s over the season (give or take.) That is a lot. BUT IT’S THE NATURE OF THE BEAST that is catcher’s speed.

By brian

January 9, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

to answer your question Wayne:

yes

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Brian, I know the writers’ strike has seriously cut into the quality-TV options and all that, but you really watched a Bon Jovi Unplugged? Oh, lawd….

By NOLIE

January 10, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

ncscoots, it’s only been Earle singing the theme song the past two seasons. Before that, they had another theme song (can’t recall offhand, but it was also a good one).DOB

I thought they used Tom Waits’ ‘Keep the Devil Down in the Hole’ for the first 4 seasons, just done by different singers?

By NOLIE

January 10, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Most times in life you don’t get the total package. Can you fill out all 9 positions with guys who do both, hit the ball hard and far and get on base a lot?TP

prolly not, but then you should use high OBP guys with less power. If you can keep the OBP high all through the lineup you get your leadoff and #2 guys more chances for RBI too. Most stats guys think OBP is a tad more important than S%, in fact sone formulas weigh it heavier. One of Beane’s contributions was finding that high OBP guys were cheap (at that time) and helped the offense a good bit.

By uga-brave

January 10, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

In the latest sports weekly they have a three page pullout on the braves and their minor league system. they rank the braves third in the n.l. east and seventh in the n.l. seth livingstone is really high on jo-jo ranking him their top prospect, they rank jjj second. frank wren goes on to say that chalie morton could be a real sleeper. now of course DOB, told us this in november.

the braves had the second biggest bullpen swing improving from 4.39 in 06 to 3.54 in 07. peter moylan truly had a remarkable season 80 games 90 ip and only 65 hits. 2 to 1 k’s to walks. really just a great rookie season.

just goes to show you that all great major leaguer’s are not always great prospects. remember jose capellean, to a man he was rated our top minor league arm. i am sure js is quite relieved he has not lived up to expectations, if he did the dan kolb trade might have gone down as the worst trade in the history of the braves.

By NOLIE

January 10, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Everyone wants someone who can get on base and hit the ball as hard and as far as possible. Generally, that will create runs and win lots of games. But they would also like their hitters to be good situational hitters.*Braveheart8

there are quite a few stats guys who do not believe in situational hitters. In general the larger the sample size of situational at bats the closer that they conform to overall hitting stats of the player. also situational hitting is often an up and down stat over the years for most players. Still not sure exactly how I feel about that take on the ‘situation’.

By uga-brave

January 10, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

one thing that is overlooked a lot when considering whether or not a TEAM is great offensively is their pitches per plate appearance.

truly great offensive teams have high pitch counts per plate appearance. in order to beat other teams 1 or 2 it is important to get their aces pitch count up early.

i think this has been one of the braves most glaring weaknesses in the past. with the departure of edgar the only real patient hitters on the team are hoss and kj.

By A-ville Ranger

January 10, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

DOB.. I’m going to ask a question that you probably can’t answer honestly if at all.Does it bother you that Terrence Moore writes one poorly crafted,inflammatory and unually completely off the mark article while you craft what you do to be interesting,informative without taking the low,easy road (for the most part)? Consider this rhetorical if you wish.

By uga-brave

January 10, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger,

i always thought terrence moore’s articles were written to cause controversy, much like the talking heads on sports radio. i think he is looking for the wow factor.

his idea of jouranalism is to tick off the majority and get people talking about his latest editorial.

right or wrong i think he achieves his objectives.

speaking of journalists i sure miss rick reily’s last page in sports illustrated. he left SI in november.

By NOLIE

January 10, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this

Before you slam on my for saying Chipper was an unknown. Yeah, yeah, yeah….I know he was the #1 over all pick when they drafted him. But as I recall, he was very unimpressive in his September callup in 1993, and was coming off of a MAJOR surgery when they had him start in 1995. Of course his spring in 1994 was awesome, which is why he won the LF job.N8

he was also rated in the top 5 prospects in baseball every year in the minors I believe, which had to help some too I bet

By Michael Procton

January 10, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

Moylan did have a PHENOMENAL rookie year, but I hope you’re not banking on another 80 IP season with an ERA under 2. The guy had a strand rate of 87%! No matter how good a pitcher is, that’s just a ridiculous number that is MOST unlikely to be repeated.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 10, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Wayne wrote : What I can’t see is where is the big difference between Patterson and Crisp??? To say that Patterson has disappointed (yes, he has) does not answer anything. What has he done the past couple of seasons? He has improved, albeit slightly.

Wayne , one is a switch hitter(Crisp) , the other bats left handed(Patterson).

Coco Crisp is a 7th round pick who has lived up to expectations. Cory Patterson is a 1st round bust.

The cereal man has value , an affordable multi-year contract and that World Championship ring.

Cory Patterson is viewed as an underachieving 1st round bust , no contract as of yet and considering his his enormous talent this should be a clue to the unwise.

Wayne wrote : Boston will NOT take Blanco & Prado for Crisp. Boston’s organization is not stupid. Those two are career AAAA players.

Wayne , they took Andy Marte for Edgar Renteria and gave the Braves 11 million in cash.

Your trying to tell me that Coco Crisp can’t be had for two players ? get real. The cereal man has value. However , he isn’t worth nearly as much as Renteria.

I view Gregor Blanco as a fourth outfielder , Martin Prado is a decent back up infielder. Thats probably about right when considering a trade for Crisp.

If Theo Epstein wants to try and overstate the worth of Coco Crisp , then by all means , just sign Kenny Lofton.

I would be happy with either Crisp or Lofton. They both have pro’s and con’s to consider.

Lofton is 40 , bats left handed and is a type B free agent , could be had for one season in the 2 to 3 million dollar range and can still play. His age still has to be taken into consideration whether it’s fair or not.

Coco Crisp is 28 and a switch hitter , has two years and 10.5 million left on his contract and a team option for a third year at 8 million or a 500k buyout. He will cost a player or two in trade.

The Braves are looking for a one year stopgap veteran CF who can play solid defense and hit a little bit , nothing more.

By Mike S

January 10, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

I’m a little worried about Moylan throwing 90 innings in 80 appearances in his first full year in the bigs too…

By Metropolitan Man

January 10, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - When Larry Jones noticed a foul odor coming through a vent in his apartment, he chalked it up to dead mice and spoke to his landlord.

It wasn’t until Wednesday, when U.S. Marshals delivered an eviction notice next door, that Jones learned the real source of the stench: the decomposing bodies of four young people.

And we thought David Wright did it all. Superhero “Chumper” solves another case. Now get back to hooters!!!!

By tom simmons

January 10, 2008 4:25 AM | Link to this

Devils right hand… I know this song as a Webb Wilder song. who covered who on this?

By Nolie

January 10, 2008 5:43 AM | Link to this

Tom Earle wrote it. Johnny Cash and The Highwaymen are two covers that I am aware of.Never heard the Wilder version.

By KC

January 10, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

Mike S: “I’m a little worried about Moylan throwing 90 innings in 80 appearances in his first full year in the bigs too…”

Valid point Mike, but keep in mind… throwing sidearm is considerably easier on the arm/shoulder than throwing over the top.

By flange1

January 10, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All,

Just reread the Mitchell report and I have a general question for he group about steroids and HGH.

I read Juiced and Game of Shadows and in those books, we saw Barry Bonds and Jose Canseco using steroids over long periods of time. They used calendars to create “cycle periods” to go on and off the juice to maximize the effects of the steroids.

In reading the Mitchell report, we have the Rocket being charged with get basically 3 injections, Andy Pettite getting HGH on one occasion, and Brian Roberts trying steroids one time.

My basic understanding on both HGH and anabolic steroids is that they assist the body in recovering from injury, either from a physical injury or surgery or from vigorous workouts.

Is there any value to the user in using either HGH or anabolic steroids in single or just a few doses?

By opieandy

January 10, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

Unless him and Schafer both look completely overmatched this spring,

Nice grammar, Dave. Are you really a journalist? :)

By Chuck

January 10, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

I removed myself from this board over a year ago b/c everyone, including DOB, is very hostile. Glad to see nothing has changed. Good lead-ins, but after that, this board goes South. And don’t worry, I won’t be reading any responses so blast away if you must. But please remember, we are all rooting for the same team.

By cardvol

January 10, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

Josh Anderson will be the Braves’ answer to CF. He’ll hit at least .270 and be a more than adequate defensive player. The Braves are in much shape now than they were last January. And, if Gonzo can get back by mid-June they’ll win the division.

By armesjr

January 10, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Random Note regarding The Wire. The deacon in “The Wire”, used to be a major drug dealer in balitmore in the 70’s and 80’s.

By Braveheart

January 10, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

Flange1, that question has been on my mind for a few weeks as well. I always thought Pettitte and Clemens were roids guys. But I figured they were much more hardcore into PEDs. So, the shocker of the Mitchell report for me was that, to the best of McNamee’s knowledge, they were not using all that much.

Like you, I thought the PEDs took a bit of time, and working out to really have a benefit. Maybe I’m wrong about that. I dunno. I just didn’t think they worked instantaneously like that. HGH might be the one that has that immediate benefit since so many players like Pettitte and Vina have said they used HGH to have a fast recovery.

But if you look at the timeframes McNamee used to allege abuse by Clemens, you see Clemens had these miraculous turnarounds in his season following the alleged use. Does it really work like that? That fast? I wish I knew. Because you could say that is how damaging this stuff was to the game. OR you could say the times selected by McNamee is proof that McNamee is lying.

The times he alleges of Rocket’s use seem a little too cozy and convenient. Almost like, under pressure, he went through gamelogs and splits, and said there is the time of use. Or almost like the feds and Mitchell did that themselves and improperly suggested the answer.

With that being said, I believe Clemens is as guilty as hell. Sometimes, the truth is too cozy, convenient, and obvious.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 10, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Read it and weep , or scream. I cussed.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/13627791.html

By Mackey Sasser

January 10, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Metro Man, how did the Mets end up doing last year? I missed the last couple of weeks of the season. I know you guys were cruising to the playoffs. Hope the posteason went well.

By Random

January 10, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

DonCoburleone:

Point of order, sir — it ain’t “warm and snuggly”, it’s “warm and fuzzy”.

Always has been, always will be.

By TBraveFan

January 10, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Wow — I not only watched Bon Jovi on CMT, MTV and VH1 but I set the ol’ DVR… gotta have something to do during the off season!

Braves and Bon Jovi - the two great loves of my life…. ok - I’m sooooo ready for ST!

By DAP

January 10, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

shaun and Random ok, guys, whatever. i think your wrong, but im tired of talking about it. i think weve made our points.

By DAP

January 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

McFann thanx for those stats from yesterday. they were very interesting. good work! youre learning some stuff about baseball!

By Random

January 10, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

McFann:

Nice work — appreciate the effort.

Your AVG LOB per game played numbers for the four players cited is not as useful for comparison purposes as would be LOB per opportunity (ie, per AB (or PA) with men on base) would be.

Maybe you’re having trouble with the gazinters.

You know, like three gazinter six twice.

Or McMann gazinter home from second on a single never.

;-)

By DAP

January 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

for CF, randy winn would be a perfect fit, but his cost i think is an issue. anyways, he would be my first choice. lofton might be good but i dont think he can do it defensively any more.

gregor blanco WILL be in the mix the anderson and shafer to make the team out of spring training, if we dont get a veteran. i really think itll be between anderson and blanco when it comes down to it.

By Efrim

January 10, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Coach

It wouldn’t shock me at all to see Santana on the Mets at this point. The Twins aren’t in love with the Red Sox and Yanks offers, therefore, it seems as if the Mets could be the leader. I just hope that Bill Smith could grab Fernando Martinez in the trade.

By Bon Jovi

January 10, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Anderson, Blanco, Kotsay, Crisp, Patterson? Wow. Now that’s livin’ on a prayer.

By Random

January 10, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Salty—

Yes, an integral part of the definition of “sac fly” is that a man is on third base (and scores). Otherwise, a sac fly is just a fly out.

If you want to honestly or fairly compare triples with sac flies, then you must stipulete that there’s also a man on third for the triple, same as for the sac fly. That being the case, which would you say is better or more valuable, the triple or the sac fly? As I’ve stated, I consider it to be a no-brainer of a question.

Otherwise, you might as well be arguing what’s better or more valuable, a double or an RBI double?

By Rocket

January 10, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Oh really, Hardhead for Francoeur? Figure that out all on your own, did ya? Good land, man!

Mac, I get home from vacation here and I found out now - I’m just hearing a ton of other things. Just the stuff that I’m reading or hearing. So much of it is untrue that it’s just tearing everybody apart. What dime store novels have you been reading? A supposed teen saying good land man?!?!?! Teens are getting cornier and cornier these days. I just want the truth out there, and if I got to go - whatever I’m doing - I just want the truth out there. And like I said, I just can’t believe what’s being said. We’re getting it from all angles. Andy’s taking it, er, I mean Debbie’s taking it real hard, man. I mean, I just can’t - like I said, you know, everybody asks me about you and I tell them I treat you like I treat anybody else in the world. I think you know that. I treated you just like anybody else. You just need to come out and tell the truth. Alright, I gotta go visit with some folks.

By Random

January 10, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

DAP—

Okay — truce. Okay, Shaun?

By DAP

January 10, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Random If you want to honestly or fairly compare triples with sac flies, then you must stipulete that there’s also a man on third for the triple, same as for the sac fly.

that was never the argument. the argument was a guy hits a triple, and then the next guy hits a sac fly to score him. which was more important, the triple or the sac fly?

the answer: both events are meaningless(as far as winning the baseball game) without the other event happening.

By flange1

January 10, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

You hit the nail on the head with the timing of the Rocket’s injections and his career turn arounds. It does seem a bit strange that he would have his trainer inject him 3 or 4 times and not every time or none of the time.

And Pettite took HGH after an injury and recovered and pitched well.

Hopefully someone with knowledge can help us out here!

By DAP

January 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

random sounds great. my last post was already in before i saw your truce.

By Will

January 10, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Corey Patterson is crap. He swings for the fences almost every at bat. I thought the Braves were looking to get rid of their .220 hitting center fielder. At least A.Jones could play defense.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

I found a neat little tool on baseballmusings.com:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/RBIPCT.py?StartDate=03%2F29%2F2007&EndDate=10%2F01%2F2007&SortField=1.0*%28OnRBI.RBI-OnRBI.HRs%29%2FOnRBI.RunnersOn&SortDir=desc&MinPA=200

RBI Percentage, which basically measures the percentage of runners a hitter drove in that wasn’t himself (minus homeruns) per men on base.

Of course this is not perfect because you still need to take ballpark into account; the easier it is to hit a homerun, obviously the easier it is to drive in all the runners on base. Also, if a hitter gets pitched around or is disciplined, it’s going to affect his percentage. But it’s a nice quick and dirty tool and we can learn some things.

For example, look at Andruw: He came to bat with 501 runners on in 2007, yet had only 94 RBI. Only Aaron Rowand drove in fewer runs with at least 500 runners on.

By Random

January 10, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Coach: somehow the relationship between Lofton and Cox did not go well during the one season he was a Brave.

True dat, but it wasn’t anything to do with running or not running, as well argued by N8.

And the same factor would militate against Crisp, as well.

Sad fact is both Lofton and Crisp would probably be considered too “uppity” for the Braves’ locker room and club house.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

DAP, that’s not the way I saw it. Obviously both events—the triple and the sac fly are important to getting that run home. The question is which event should be weighted more in terms of creating that run. You say equal, I say the triple (because I think the player that hit the triple did harder work to create that run and the guy who hit the sac fly—while I would never ever say it was easy—had an easier task in creating the run).

By BabyGoatEater

January 10, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Patterson is a disgusting player. Selfish, hard-headed, and power hungry.

But then again so is francoeur so…….

just kidding.

In reality though, why pay for Patterson’s services? I know everyone heer doesn’t think the Braves current roster is enough to win the division, but why would an overpriced, stopgag, average free agent pick-up be a good idea to fix it? I think FW should just roll the dice and let Blanco or Anderson play center. Give Schaffer some more time in the minors so he doesn’t become Patterson. Yeah, I wish we had Andruw or Rowand running the outfield too. Since we don’t let’s let a guy who has produced at every level get his shot (Blanco).

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

“Roll the dice”? You might have your future Hall of Fame manager and future Hall of Fame pitcher (Glavine) in their last seasons with Atlanta. You might have Teixeira in his only full season with the Braves. This might — repeat, might — be the team’s best chance to go deep into the postseason for some time.

And your best advice on CF is “just roll the dice and let Blanco or Anderson play center”?

Wow.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 10, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

great picture of bobby and hampton on the front page!!

By McFann

January 10, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Hey, Neightcoeur, now your sayin’ McCann cost the whole team runs? Well, that may very well be true, my almost-friend, but how can you be so sure? Suppose he stopped at third on one of Francoeur’s 129 singles, but then the next guy knocked him in? Seems to me we got the same amount of runs that way. Unless wait—perhaps McCann’s slow speed kept Francoeur at third so he could not score, and then the next batter made the third out! Ohmagosh!! He did prevent a run!!

And I’m not denying that he cost a few runs—how ‘bout that time Smoltz was attempting a squeeze play with McCann on third? Brian got tagged out instead of scoring. I said before Smoltz even touched the ball that it was a dumb idea—I am merely trying to tell you that if Francoeur would’ve knocked in maybe 12 (Roman Gal) of those 200 some odd players that he left stranded, he’d have had more RBIs. It’s not all McCann’s fault.

And that point about me facing the fact that he’s slow because he’s a catcher? Seems to me I tried to tell you people that a while ago.

By Lee in S. GA

January 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I would say give the current rookie centerfielders a chance first also. Kotsay and Patterson may well equal another Craig Wilson and Chris Woodward. Money wasted for absolutely nothing. Kotsay is an injury waiting to happen and Patterson is a never was reject from the Cubs and Orioles……. enough said abut him. The Braves can always make a trade later if these younger outfielders do not satisfactory their need in CF.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Random, you must have a different evaluation of Coco Crisp than any of the scouts. Because their knock on him is just that he’s not a great player — average player, chance to be fairly good, but not a great player.

You’re saying he might be too “uppity” for the Braves? Hmm. Honestly, maybe I just missed that report, but I haven’t heard anyone say he’s got any kind of attitude problem. Just lack of production the past couple of seasons, after a solid couple of years before that.

Lofton? Yes, he rubbed a lot of teammates and coaches the wrong way during his one season here (and had five homers and a league-high 20 caught stealings in 49 attempts, though he hit .333 with a .409 OBP.)

But I just haven’t heard anything like that about Crisp in Boston.

By the way, Lofton is 41 and made $6 mill last season while playing 136 games. He can still hit plenty (.296 last season, .301 in 2005, .335 in .2204).

But I’m curious: Do you think it’s just the Braves who had a problem with his attitude, or that there might be a reason why a guy with his credentials has played for NINE — repeat, NINE — different teams in the past six years.

That’s pretty incredible, for a non-relief pitcher and a guy who still can hit. There’s a reason, folks.

Nevermind that almost any player who has ever played for the Braves will tell you that if you can’t play for Bobby Cox, you can’t play for anybody. Forget that. Just think about the fact he’s played for NINE different teams in six seasons.

The man has worn the uniform of nearly one-third of the teams in baseball since 2002. And not one of those teams has brought him back the following year.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

If the Mets do pull off a coup and pick up Santana, what exactly does his acquisition really do for them? They will have replaced Glavine’s 13 wins, plus say 7 more (if he wins 20). Maybe not TOO bad for THIS season, but…… does it answer the questions of:

1.Can Pedro be effective for an entire season ever again?

1. Will El Duque ever complete another season without missing half of it on the DL?

2. Give them the two or three more bullpen parts they radically need?

4.Make Moises Alou and his 40 something legs any more durable?

5.Make Castillo’s legs any better?

6.Bring DelGado’s performance back to where it was when he was younger?

7.Does it even give them a team next year when their ancient players must certainly retire or go to rest homes or?

8.Give them ANY talent left in the minors to replace their geriatric casualties in the future?

9.Get rid of Jorge Sosa?

This trade would appear to me to be on par with the Rangers picking up ARod and actually expecting them to make the World Series. We saw how THAT one worked out now, didn’t we?

MetroDude-You’re posts have become increasingly tasteless, but you sure hit the pinnacle of that mountain with your 3:43 post early this morning. Sounds more like something you would hear coming out of New York.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Will, I’m not a fan of Patterson, either. I think he stinks as a hitter and his has been pretty much a bust as a major leaguer who came in with so much fanfare.

But your line about Andruw at least being able to play defense … who told you Corey Patterson doesn’t play good defense? Are you sure we’re talking about the same player?

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Shaun, that’s a very useful tool.

Isn’t it amazing how so many folks can’t seem to grasp that Andruw was terrible with runners on base and in scoring position, and that telling us “but he had 90-some RBI” is beside the point?

If you come to bat more than anyone else on the team with runners in scoring position (Andruw had that distinction until late in the season, when Francoeur finally passed him after Bobby finally dropped Andruw from cleanup altogether), then you’re going to drive in a lot of runs. Even if you barely hit .200 with RISP, you’re going to drive in a lot of runs if you come to bat about once in every three at-bats with RISP.

By Random

January 10, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Shaun—

Now you’ve gotten me to swing all the way over to DAP’s position.

You say I think the player that hit the triple did harder work to create that run [than] the guy who hit the sac fly.

I say they did the exact same amount of “work” — the only difference between a triple and a sac fly is that one was caught and one wasn’t — in every other regard, they’re both just long fly balls except for that one difference.

That said, it’s still a no-brainer that triples are always and forever more valuable than sac flies.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

opieandy, no I’m not. or rather, I am, but in this forum I’m more of a blogger, and grammar and such ain’t (using that word for emphasis) nearly as important as it is in writing for the paper. comprende?

that’s part of the beauty of blogging (at least for most of us), just being able to write blogs quickly (without reading them over a time or two and making sure every word is correctly used) and then being able to answer questions by typing quickly what we’re thinking, not having to worry about folks (well, at least not many folks) caring as much about sentence structure and grammatical issues as about the content and having some fun.

again, that’s generally the rule. with some (you) it’s obviously not the case.

notice i used no uppercase letters to begin sentences in this post? notice how it really doesn’t matter? kinda like texting someone?

thanks for reading, opieandy. and glad you found some use for the English classes you took in school — playing gotcha with the mean beat writer and pointing out my grammatical errors in a blog. whew.

By jim

January 10, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

N8 Only Furcal jumped from A-ball directly to the major leagues. Andrew Jones hit all the stops in between very briefly on his way to the majors in ‘96. Chipper (and Javy and Klesko) had outstanding minor league numbers in AA and AAA before making it to the major leagues. All 3 were ready to take over when they arrived. In asking Shafer to jump from A ball to the major leagues (after 1 strong minor league season) you are asking him to do something only Furcal has done previously (for the Braves) and Furcal had more than 1 good minor league season behind him when he did.

I agree with bloggers who would like to see Blanco given a chance to be the opening day CFer. He has put up good numbers in the minors and in winter ball over the last 2 years and deserves an opportunity. He is probably only a 4th outfielder type, but so are Anderson, Patterson, and Kotsay (in 2008), and he would cost less than the last two. If Shafer is that close to being ready, he could arrive after the all-star break, and what we would be needing before then would be a three month fill-in. What we would need then is a Charles Thomas, Hurricane Hazel, Willie Harris two-month-wonder to get us through the transition. If Blanco or Anderson are hot this spring, then they would fill the bill.

Please don’t spend a lot of money and talent (Chuck James) on Fuentes. He lost his closer’s job in Colorado and looked very hittable in the WS. We have enough sidearmers in the bullpen. A relief pitcher’s period of dominance can be very short-term. Chuck’s numbers before last August were pretty good — an ERA of about 3.7 and 9 wins. His minor and major league numbers before last year were outstanding. I am willing to attribute much of his difficulties last year to injury and would like to see him back to get a more definitive view of how effective a major league pitcher he may develop to be.

By SNIPER-69

January 10, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Lew—It sounds like you don’t have a lot of love for the Mets. Your points are valid but I do think that Pedro will replace the 13 wins Glavine provided. He’s had plenty of time to heal. If the Mets do get Santana that should give the Mets at least 10 additional wins. They had 88 wins last year so do the math. But again I do agree with your concerns buy every team has them. Remember Glavine and Smolts are both over 40 and could break down at any time.

By doc

January 10, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

david, i really like the e.e. cummings style you are showing today dude. looks good on you.

By nOLIE

January 10, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

If you come to bat more than anyone else on the team with runners in scoring position (Andruw had that distinction until late in the season, when Francoeur finally passed him after Bobby finally dropped Andruw from cleanup altogether),DOB

thats why RBI are not considered a good way to judge hitters, too many variables. But…Golden Boy had the most chances by the end of the year and onlt drove in acouple more tha Chippy and 10 or so more that an admittedly terrible Druw. and only 13 more than McCann who had way fewer atbats and was hurt all year. Those are the kinds of things that make other stats much more reliable…oops I told myself I wasn’t gonna go there anymore … damm, absolutely no self-control at all.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, yep. I was on the Andruw bandwagon for a long time because it looked like he would walk more and I thought surely he would turn it around to his normal levels but he had an awful season. And the folks who point to his RBI total as him “doing his job” have to be kidding themselves.

Look at the other players who came to the plate with 500 baserunner on in 2007. Four of the eight had 120 or more RBI. Only Andruw and Rowand had under 100. Hopefully that is a wake-up call that RBI is far from reliable for determining offensive value.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Jim, good points on Furcal/Schafer difference.

I think people forget just what a man-among-boys that Furcal was in his third (and final) minor league season in 1999. He hit a combined .322 with 96 stolen bases for low-A Macon and high-A Myrtle.

Ninety-six steals.

By Jeff R

January 10, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Depsite concerns, I’m not convinced that the Braves need to make a move for another centerfielder. Let’s give Josh Anderson a chance to prove himself. By all reports, he plays a capable centerfield and his speed will be a welcome addition to the lineup. Getting on base is what we’re all waiting to see if he’ll do. Spring training should help settle that matter.

By DonCoburleone

January 10, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB has their been any talk about Mike Cameron lately? Is he too expensive? Does he want a 2 year deal and the Braves don’t want to go 2 years? Are they worried about the 25 game suspension?

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Sniper-69, I’m in agreement with Lew about the Mets, or at least most of his points. They’ve got serious concerns. Just ask their fans and read what’s being written about them.

They should’ve won the NL pennant last year. I can’t say the same about them this year. Right now, I really don’t think they’re as good as the Phillies or Braves. And even if they get Santana, that move alone wouldn’t vault them ahead of either Philly or Atlanta, in my opinion.

Again, I believe they had the most talent and should’ve won the pennant last year, even with Pedro out most of the year. But this year they’ve got huge holes in their pitching staff and issues at several other positions.

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

January 10, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Arkansas running back Darren McFadden was handcuffed at a club in Little Rock? That pretty much seals his fate in the NFL. He’s sure to be drafted by the Falcons, now. :-)

By GeorgiaVol

January 10, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

“who among you would’ve believed a few years ago that Marcus Giles would be reduced to signing a minor-league contract this winter at age 29.”

Answer: Me. That’s what happens to average players when they get off the juice. I’ve met Marcus a few times in person, and he has a much different body shape now. And we all saw Chipper get significantly smaller a few years back, too. It was obvious he got off whatever he was on and his power production went down as a result.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Random, actually, in most cases a triple is more like a line-drive down the rightfield line or a very deep flyball in center or right-center that bounces off the wall and around the outfield (more like a homerun that stays in the park) more than a fly ball that doesn’t get caught.

By Jeff R

January 10, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Santana… he’d certainly put the Mets back in the hunt in a serious way.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, what’s your point on Francoeur? Because statistically, I don’t see any stat you can lean on to try to make the point it seems you’re trying to make, that he wasn’t damn good with RISP. He was.

Francoeur ranked 10th in the NL with a .341 average (62-for-182) with RISP, which trailed only Mark Teixeira (.509, 27-for-53) among Braves with at least 50 such at-bats.

Next were Yunel Escbar at .333 (20-for-60) and Edgar Renteria (.331, 42-for-127).

McCann slipped quite a bit after ranking at or near the top among MLB leaders in all RISP and RISP/2 outs categories in 2006. He hit .278 (42-for-151) with RISP in ‘07.

Chipper hit .310 (45-for-145) with RISP.

Among Braves with at least 30 at-bats with RISP and two outs, Francoeur and Kelly Johnson tied for the team lead at .333, Francoeur at 29-for-87 and Kelly at 22-for-66. (Teixeira was 10-for-21, .476).

Escobar (.310) was the only other Brave at .300 or above in at least 20 at-bats with RISP/2 outs.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

DOB and Jim, “man among boys” is a good phrase for judging talent. Even if the stats don’t look all that impressive, if a player is 17-, 18-years-old putting up decent numbers in A-Ball or 20, 21 putting up decent numbers in AA, that means there’s a good chance he’s going to be at least a halfway decent major leaguer.

By SNIPER-69

January 10, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

LEW, as far as questions. The braves have a few of their own. Even on a down year Andruw Jones hit 26 hr’s and drove in 94. How do you replace his power numbers and gold glove in center field. Losing Rentaria will be hard as well. He playes a good shortstop and was clutch at the plate. I’m not trying to argue with you but I’m just pointing our that all teams have questions in the off season

By Lew

January 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

GeorgiaVol-Are you serious? Chipper got smaller a few years back? Just how do you figure that? I’ve stood within two feet of the guy at Spring Training all but two years at Disney and I see no appreciable difference at all. I sincerely doubt DOB would disagree with that assessment, either and he sees him almost daily during the season.

By charlie

January 10, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

The starting pitching scares me. I would be shocked if Hampton contributes much this year, and Glavine just doesn’t have much anymore. He’s a better 3 than we had last year,though. I would be pretty happy if we got Blanton. That would essentially solidify our roster. Go with the pups in CF and spend the money/prospects on starting pitching.

By charlie

January 10, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

The starting pitching scares me. I would be shocked if Hampton contributes much this year, and Glavine just doesn’t have much anymore. He’s a better 3 than we had last year,though. I would be pretty happy if we got Blanton. That would essentially solidify our roster. Go with the pups in CF and spend the money/prospects on starting pitching.

By BabyGoatEater

January 10, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB:

I guess “roll the dice” wasn’t the best use of the words. I believe anyone who has had the numbers Blanco has had, deserves his shot. No his numbers aren’t over-impressive, but he’s pretty consistent. Being consistent in the minors seems to equate to more success in the majors than a guy who had 1 break-out season.

Your right though, that it’s a shame the Braves can’t field an all-star team for Bobby’s likely last season. The man deserves as much. I still believe in his ability to get the most out of his players, and that he’ll somehow get this flawed but still talented team into the playoffs. After that I’ll take from a great managers own words; “The playoffs are a crapshoot”

Here’s hoping we trade for Tori Hunter; realistically, Blanco will do.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

DonC, Cameron wants and will probably get a two-year deal, perhaps from the Brewers, who are reportedly quite interested in him all of a sudden.

His agent said a handful of teams have expressed recent interest, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the Braves are in that group, even if it was just a phone call to the agent to see what they’re looking for at this late date, whether his price was coming down.

I still think he might get at least $10-12 mill over two years, and don’t think the Braves would do that. Unlike Crisp, Cameron might not be so easy to trade after the season, if his production declines (he’s getting old, and he’s serving a 25-game suspension for stimulant, which means he tested positive twice for amphetamines or a similar substance, as the first positive carries no suspension and is kept private).

By Braveheart

January 10, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Shouldn’t we trust the relative silence from the Braves about Blanco? The Braves were pretty excited about Betemit, Marte, Frenchy, Elvis, Chipper, Furcal, Salty, Andruw, Klesko, Schafer, McCann and so on when they were kids. I know the Braves somewhat like Blanco but the Braves are pretty good judges of their own kids. When they are not trumpeting the future arrival of a kid, you know something is wrong about the kid’s talent in their eyes and in the eyes of many other major league scouts. If the Braves thought he was any good, they would be whipping us into a frenzy about him so they can sell tickets. If the Braves thought they could fool other major league teams by shouting the kid’s name, they would do so to increase the trade value of the kid. When they don’t think they can use the kid either on the field or in a trade, they always seem quiet like they have been about Blanco. Sometimes the Braves get too excited about the Bruce Chens of the world, and sometimes they are tooting the horns of the Andy Martes and Saltys of the world so they can trade ‘em for a better player, but the Braves rarely look stupid on kids they don’t get themselves excited over.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, the only time I remember Chipper looking noticeably more muscular was 1999, his MVP year, when he says he did more weighttraining and also, I recall, has said he did a lot more with protein powder or creatine shakes, all that stuff.

Since that year, he’s looked about the same every season. A big dude, about 6-3 and 220-230, but not all ripped-up looking with veins bulging atop muscles, like bodybuilders — or like some football players (and, yes, some baseball players) who resemble bodybuilders.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Sniper-Dude, It’s certainly no secret on this blog that I am, shall we say, not a Mets’ supporter. However, I believe my assessment to be rational and reasonable. Those problems definitely exist for the Mets.

As for Pedro replacing Glavine-Really? And what is it that makes you think this will happen? Glav pitched over 200 innings for the mets last year-Pedro pitched 28. To make it worse, from the end of May in 06, Pedro only pitched 56 innings until he was closed down completely That makes all of 84 innings that Pedro has pitched since June 1,2006 by the time he pitches in April of this year-84 IP in the past 22 months with major shoulder surgery, hip problems and chronic foot difficulties. I certainly would not count on hi to go the full season, much less return to the for he exhibited almost three years ago when he had his last successful season. He is now amlmost 37 years old, in addition to all the injuries.

AS for Smoltz and Glavine breaking down. Glavine never has his ebtire career-not a single stay on the DL. Smoltz has some issues, but is a gamer of the first magnitude and we actually have a deep starting staff. The Mets do not. Their entire rotation and pen looks like swiss cheese with all the holes.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, I think your point is a valid one to a degree. Although I don’t know if I’d say Francoeur had as bad a year as you may think. I also don’t think he had as good a year as some others seem to think. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle with Francoeur.

McCann did have a better RBI percentage than Francoeur, so there seems to be something to what you’re saying. McCann and Francoeur both had a better percentage than Chipper, but a lot of that probably has to do with pitchers working around Chipper and Chipper’s discipline at the plate.

By SNIPER-69

January 10, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, I wouldn’t say the Mets have “Huge” holes in their pitching staff. Other than losing Glavine, which is a loss of 200 innings and 12-14 wins, they have everyone else coming back. As I said before Pedro will make up for the wins (not the innings). Duaner Sanchez will be welcomed back in the bullpen. I know he’s coming back from an injury but at 28 in think he’ll recover. Maybe I’m blinded by loyalty but I don’t see the “huge” holes. I’m more concerned with the loss of Lo Duca to be honest with you. He bought passion to a team that at times seemed dispassionate.

By McFann

January 10, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Good point, Nolie.

Hey, I’ve been goin’ through games in which McCann scored a run (that wasn’t by scoring on a homer hit by himself or anyone else). So far, I have two games in which he scored from second on a single (hit by Francoeur, BTW). The dates are April 17 and 22, in case you don’t believe me. Oh, and on April 5 he walked and then got all the way to third on a single (hit by Francoeur). I’m in May, BTW.

You guys don’t believe I’m really a teen? Tsk! Whatever!! That’s like, so totally weird!!

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, seems to me the Braves (and every team) would be positive about all their prospects or would keep quiet as to not reveal which ones they really like and which ones they don’t.

As far as Blanco, he looks like a decent on-base guy with no power and good speed although not overwhelming. Furcal had a season where he stole 60 bases followed by a season where he stole 96. Blanco’s high is 40 and he’s averaged a little over 30 a season.

Just judging by his numbers, he looks like a solid backup or 8th place hitting centerfielder on a team loaded with offense (which probably describes the ‘08 Braves).

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

I think Francoeur had a solid major league season if you are just looking at what he did; nothing more, nothing less. But you translate that to take into account he’s still very young for an everyday player on a contending team and with his tools and body type, it’s a very impressive season that is likely a sign of better things to come. That’s the way I view him, for what it’s worth.

By Cleanuphitter16

January 10, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

If you’re going to say that Glav and Smoltz are ticking-bombs due to their ages, don’t you have to say the same for Pedro and El’Duqe? Plus, combined, Glav and Smoltz have had fewer health issues combined over the past 2 years than Pedro and El’Duqe. I certainly appreciate Mets fans trying to stay positive on all this starting-rotation stuff, but seriously, at this stage there is no contest between the two starting staffs…from a health and depth standpoint at least.

I think the odds on Pedro having a full, productive season are about the same as Hampton’s, to be honest.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Sniper-Moises Alou missed half the season. Carlos DelGado put up his worst season in over a decade and missed considerabe time. ElDuque spent considerable time on the DL. Castillo has chronic leg problems. Beltran misses 20-25 games a year and their catcher and right fielder are gone with questionable (at best ) subsitutes in place. They have no second line of defense should these players go down for any appreciable time (and they will, if past performances hold true-which they should). Their entire pitching staff fell apart late last year and the team had a losing record from the end of May onwards.

Their bullpen was a complete and utter disaster last year and getting Sanchez back after missing an entire year is hardly a lock to bring them back to the dominance they showed in the pen in 06. Wagner is dissatisfied at the very least and you can pretty much bet on a toxic atmosphere to continue in their clubhouse.

Yes, the Braves have some question marks. Centerfield is not certain, but they have the players, at the very least, to cover it until one of their young kids (who are well thought of) are ready. They lost an offensive force in Renteria, but replaced his mediocre (at best) range at short with a guy who covers much more territory and has a gun for an arm, who is also no offensive slouch, even if he hits a bit less than last year. KJ is a year more experienced at second. We now have Teixeira for an entire season.

We have eight starting pitchers who could go-last year we had four. We have an excellent bullpen with way more arms than we can use.

Seems to me that the Braves have many less questions than the Mets do and we certainly have a much younger team. We also have a farm system. The Mets, if they trade those several kids for Santana have damn little coming up from below in the next several years, with a team that is extremely old and injury prone. There is no comparison to the question marks as far as I can tell.

By N8

January 10, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

DOB

I always wondered why so many people put so much stock in Furcal’s SB’s in his last minor league season. Don’t get me wrong, it’s mighty impressive, and at the time, I was very excited about his soon to be arrival in Atlanta.

But in hindsight, knowing what we know about his “possible” age discrepancy, that season does not seem as impressive as it did at the time.

I mean seriously, Furcal was “listed” at age 21 in 1999, the final minor league season, in which he stole the 96 bases. Not sure who or what to believe about his age, but if rumors are even remotely true, he could have very well been 23 or 24 that season.

To put it in perspective, how much would Francoeur or McCann be tearing it up at “A” ball??? Hell, they’d be touted as the next Babe Ruth. How would Chuck James look in Macon for a season?

Add to that, IMO, even IF Furcal’s age was correct, he was obviously a good base-stealer. But how many great defensive catchers are at A-Ball, how many pitchers have perfected the slide step, or their moves to first base.

Were the numbers impressive? Absolutely. But almost similar to the steroids non-sense, the age crap that came out after 9/11 completely diminishes those numbers to me.

Not knockin’ him, just stating my opinion.

By SNIPER-69

January 10, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

LEW—I think you’re assuming that the setbacks the Mets had last year will all occur again. Keep in mind that even with all the problems the Mets had last year they won more games than the braves. I’m not saying the Mets don’t have concerns. I’m just saying they’re not going to drop down to a 70 win season in 2008. I don’t beleive the braves or phillies will run away with the division. I do believe as an optomistic fan that if the Met do get Santana that they will be in the hunt for the division. If they don’t get him they’ll have to have everything go perfect for them to win the division…

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

N8, 96 stolen bases is 96 stolen bases. And whether he was 21, 22 or 23, he still had only two previous minor league seasons, unless you think he got experience in some secret league we don’t know about. So why would it matter much, in terms of steals, whether he was 21 or 23? He had as little experience as the catchers he was running against. And actually, it’d probably be more impressive if he stole that many at 24 than if he did it at 21, when he had younger, fresher legs.

96 steals is 96 steals. And check his avg and OBP that year. He was a nemesis for pitchers, and he did it despite never having played a long season before then and, oh yeah, after being coverted to a new position (2B to SS).

By N8

January 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

DOB

I forgot to add that the whole point of my last post is this.

My guess, due to being an American born citizen, Jordan Schafer’s age is NEVER gonna be in question.

But when he’s 23 (like Francoeur and McCann are), and in his second season in a Braves uniform (assuming he gets called up this year sometime), fans are gonna say things like “Man. Why can’t we have any 21 year old phenoms come up, like when Andruw came up at 19 or Furcal at 21?

Not to sound like a little, whiny girl…..but it’s not fair to Schafer, Francoeur, McCann or any other legitimate 21 year old coming up through the minor leagues.

It messes with their signing bonuses, it messes with long term contracts, it messes with the “Top organizational prospects” list, which I’m assuming (along with scouting reports), are what many trades are based off of.

For instance, if Schafer was 24 in the minors doing what he’s doint, he be considered an above average “prospect” with an average ceiling. But since he’s 21, his stock is higher.

It’s essentially fraud, when it comes right down to it (lying about your age, that is).

So, IMO, if Furcal was actually 23 when the Braves called him up, isn’t what McCann, Francoer, KJ, and even Escobar last year, MORE impressive than what Furcal did as a 21 year old (wink-wink), rookie??

Again. Just my opinion.

By GeorgetownKid

January 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

I probably should have clarified my above statement that Anderson could put up comparable numbers as Kelly Johnson from last year.

I do believe that it is realistic to expect Anderson to hit for a comparable average as Kelly, though he won’t have Kelly’s power. He also won’t draw Kelly’s walks.

However, he is a viable base-stealer, which Kelly is not. So he might hit a respectable number of doubles, but many of them would be singles that he leggs into doubles.

My overall point was that Anderson will put up decent, but not great offensive numbers. He won’t have much (if any power), but he’ll have an average comparable to Kelly Johnson’s, he’s faster on the basepaths than anyone else we’ve currently got, and he’ll play solid defense. This is pretty good production from a #8 hitter making the league minimum.

Given this, I don’t see the value added in spending several million on a free agent who will put up slightly better offensive numbers.

But I appreciate you responding to my question!

By nOLIE

January 10, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, what’s your point on Francoeur? Because statistically, I don’t see any stat you can lean on to try to make the point it seems you’re trying to make, that he wasn’t damn good with RISP. He wasDOB

my point was exactly what I said it was, that RBI are a very poor way to judge a hitter. There are too many variables to make any meaningful comparisons. Thats why modern saberguys have come up with stats that are as little influenced as possible like OBP and S% and variations thereof. OPS is easy and tells you the two most important things about a hitter. how well he gets on base to create runscoring opportunities and how much power he hits with which shows how likely he is to drive in runs no matter what lineup he is inserted into and at which spot. I have nothing against JF except he makes too many outs and he did improve on that to some extent. if he continues to improve it some more I will be even happier with the guy. I just can’t seem to stop stirring the pot when presented with many posters obvious man love for a guy who ranks as average to slightly above average at this point in his career by the standard most used in BB to judge hitters. Like I said i did decide to try and stay away from any responses on him for awhile, but I just couldn’t keep that devil down in the hole. I’m gonna try again. BTW. I’m crying cause Wire and The Shield are coming to an end. Do you like Rescue Me at all? or the first season of Damages?

By N8

January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I hear you DOB. As I stated, I was PUMPED that we had a kid with 96 SB’s in the minors, almost ready to be called up.

But WHY ON EARTH has he capped out at 46 SB’s in the big leagues, then?

Is he only half as fast as he was back then?

As for the PURE numbers of the SB’s, I agree with you. He was in a zone. He was a distraction on the base paths. I can’t and WON’T argue that. The numbers are not disputable.

But gauging how he was as a prospect, while comparing him to Jordan Schafer’s “readiness” to be called upon is silly.

You’ve stated that the Brave LOVE Schafer. You’ve stated that Bobby has said he is ready defensively. People on this blog have stated that the Braves WON’T count on him because he might not be ready, yet people (myself included last night), have stated that if the kid is ready…..he’s ready and he’ll play.

Andruw climbed quickly. Obviously he’s a great talent (and was at 19- if that’s how old he was), Furcal put up MONSTER numbers, and obviously was ready to be called up, because he came up and contributed immediately.

Can’t argue that point.

My point is what it is.

I’m MORE impressed by Francoeur and McCann getting the call from AA in mid-season and contributing immediately, at age 21, than I am with a 23 year old Furcal getting called up and being considered a phenom.

Maybe I’m just bitter because he left. :-)

By bigdaddy

January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

GeorgetownKid has it right. Anderson will go get the ball in CF, plus be a good man to have on with the pitcher in a bunt situation. In other words, he’ll provide a great return for the money invested. You won’t be that sure if you spend millions on a middle-of-the-road short-term CF. And the rest of the line-up is loaded.All we need now is healthy, consistent pitching.

By nOLIE

January 10, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

GeorgiaVol-Are you serious? Chipper got smaller a few years back? Just how do you figure that? I’ve stood within two feet of the guy at Spring Training all but two years at Disney and I see no appreciable difference at all. I sincerely doubt DOB would disagree with that assessment, either and he sees him almost daily during the season.Lew

I remember him saying in an article around 2003 or so that he was 245 in ‘99. I talked to him a few times over the years from when he was in the minors(kinda skinny) to ‘05 and I gotta say that he looked a bit bigger back in the day than he does lately. I’m not saying that had anything to do with juice he mighta just cut back on pumping some. I don’t know how long Dave has covered the Braves but as you say he should be in the best position to judge.

By Josh H

January 10, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Read a good bit of the blog: Just have a few comments:

1) Center Field: Am I the only one who vehemently opposes Coco Crisp? Maybe its just that insane pre-pitch ritual he does, but I can’t see myself cheering him on in a Braves uniform. He does play exceptional defense. Just don’t see him as that big of an upgrade over what we might have. I say make it a competition between the 4 guys (Shafer, Lillibridge, Blanco, Anderson). Don’t most of them still have options? 2) Saw a lot of stuff about hitting with RISP. Saw how Kelly Johnson and Francouer were tied for the lead of avg with RISP and 2 outs. Do you guys think that Kelly Johnson’s approach makes him a difficult out in that situation. Isn’t a pitcher just looking to get out of an inning, and KJ is patient enough to wait for a mistake. While Francouer, well, he showed last year that he is a much more patient hitter and willing to use the entire field now. 3) Don’t really agree with that statement that Escobar is a better base-runner than KJ. KJ had 10 triples for a reason. I’m no scout but it seems to me that Escobar is very quick (in the agility way)…but really seems to be laboring when he reaches top speed.

Just a few more weeks…

By Random

January 10, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB: you must have a different evaluation of Coco Crisp than any of the scouts. Because their knock on him is just that he’s not a great player — average player, chance to be fairly good, but not a great player… . but I haven’t heard anyone say he’s got any kind of attitude problem. Just lack of production the past couple of seasons, after a solid couple of years before that.

I probably picked up that perspective from my uncle, a Boston native and life-long Sox fan — we watched some of the recent playoffs together.

Don’t know the basis for his opinion — could be personal bias, personal experience or maybe I simply misunderstood.

At any rate, I’ve just spent several hours combing through Sox blogs and could find not a single negative word about him aside from, as you say, his performance.

By LT-AA blogger

January 10, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Off subject music fans-

Just bought Stephen Malkmus & Jicks ticks for VP on 3/26 for any ex Pavement fans out there.

Personally, I like his solo stuff almost as much as the Pavement work.

By McFann

January 10, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Nolie is so correct about RBIs. Sure, it’s nice to know a guy cann be counted on to knock the runs in, but it’s also important to be able to get on base when nobody’s on. That’s how rallies get started, after all. OBP + SLG is a much better way to judge a player. (That and maybe how many times he strikes out to how many times he walks. Not taking any “cheap shots” at Francoeur, just typing…)

I, too, disagree with whoever said that Escobar was/is a better base-runner than Johnson. Escobar seemed to be a little to “greedy”—for lack of a better word—on the base path. He tried to stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples a few times too many. Then there was that one game (July 29?) in which he tried to score on a fly ball (when we were already winning, like…12-0) and got tagged out at home. But he’s young, I know. He’ll “mature”.

Bitter that Furcal is gone? OK, whatever. I’m bitter that Renteria is gone.

By DAP

January 10, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun ok. like i suspected, its probably all more of a misunderstanding and us talking about two different things than anything.

SNIPER-69 LEW—I think you’re assuming that the setbacks the Mets had last year will all occur again.

no, dude, most of us assume that the problems the mets faced will be exponentially worse in ‘08. youve lost your second winningest pitcher, plugged up holes at catcher and right field with options that will likely give you LESS production, and filled any holes you had with the same problems you had last year. there is not one thing the mets have done that anyone can say makes them better than last year, and a number of things that have happend to make them worse. if you get santana, itll be a huge step in the right direction, but the mets have to many steps to take this offseason. they arent gonna be to good.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, I agree with your last post on many levels. But I think with Francoeur you also have to balance that with age and tools. Yes, he made way too many outs in ‘06 and wasn’t a spectacular in ‘07 as many seem to think but his holding his own as a very young player at the major league level so you have to give him some leeway on his stats when talking about his “star power.”

By ncgary

January 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

alright heres my stupid trade proposal of the month, go ahead get your jeers and boo bird calls ready, i say get kotsay if blanton comes with him , give up boyer and dan smith relief pitchers, prado and diaz, eat kotsays salary for a year which is what beane wants, and get the rewards of blantons cheap terms the next few years,beane im sure would want at least one starter maybe boyer could be sold off as one.

oh well unleash away but remember sticks and stones can break bones.

i realize reyes would be a target of beanes if talks became serious for blanton though,i dont think i would go quite that far, who else we got at richmond starting?

By McFann

January 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Q: **How do you find somebody’s RBI %? (Ya know, that little thing that Shaun typed McCann had the better of, and Francoeur and McCann were better than Chipper?)

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

McFann,

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/RBIPCT.py?StartDate=03%2F29%2F2007&EndDate=10%2F01%2F2007&SortField=1.0*%28OnRBI.RBI-OnRBI.HRs%29%2FOnRBI.RunnersOn&SortDir=desc&MinPA=200

By OrlandoFan

January 10, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

All this talk about RBI percentage is interesting, but it’s also more a product of when and where a player hits than how well. If he plays a full season and has runners in scoring postion a third of his at bats — say an average of 1.5 RISP per at bat — a player would only have to hit .250 to drive in 75 runs. That’s pretty conservative estimates too. You could have a guy hitting lower pct. and driving in 90 runs very easily on a high powered offensive team — such as the Braves.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

McFann, yes, I agree. RBI tell us more about situations than ability. You want to avoid stats like that as much as possible.

RBI tell us how often a player was in the lineup, where he was in the lineup, if he was in a good lineup, etc. more than if he was a productive hitter. Sure it tells us a little about production, as it’s hard to drive in 100 runs if you’re not at least a decent hitter. But it’s not impossible (see Andruw last season, Francoeur in ‘06 or Sierra in ‘93).

It’s true that OBP and SLG are not perfect but they tell us more about ability than situations.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Sniper-Just stating my point of view and you are welcome to yours. I will say this, though. I would rather go into the season with the team the Braves have than I would the team the Mets have. Add Santana to that mix if you want and my preference would be the same-I’d still rather have the Braves.

You may be right-40 something old Alou may not miss half the season again with his chronic leg problems. DelGado may be comeback player of the year after feeling the effects of getting older-missing time and having his worst season in years. El Duque may prove to be only 39 instead of 44 and not miss a goodly portion of yet another season. Whoever you got to replace LoDuca may be the second coming of Carlton Fisk. Pedro may become a CY Young caliber pitcher again like he was six or so years ago and after barely pitching for almost two full years. Duaner Sanchez may come back from surgery to be better than he ever was. Billy Wagner may pitch like he’s 26 again and not need to be sat for the last month of the season-and he might not be p!$$ed off, either.

However, I’m betting none of that happens and they all perform like what they are-aging players with histories of injury problems and with nobody coming up from the minors to provide help.

By Salty

January 10, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun: RBI percentage…now that’s a stat with some merit. Presumably that’s simply men on base, not scoring position?

By Lew

January 10, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun-No, they don’t tell us about ability. They tell us about past performance in specific or more generalized situations. Ability is one of those pesky little intangibles we keep talking about.

By ncgary

January 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

neat site was looking to see where andruw and bonds were , they were right together.

Player Runners On Runs Batted In Home Runs RBI Pct. Ruben Sierra 1409 275 67 14.76 Barry Bonds 2575 697 317 14.76 Sandy Alomar Jr. 983 171 26 14.75 Joshua Barfield 624 108 16 14.74 Dave Hansen 563 101 18 14.74 Andruw Jones 3880 860 288 14.74 Curtis Granderson 760 162 50 14.74 Jorge Fabregas 319 55 8 14.73 Troy Glaus 2912 676 247 14.73 Melvin Mora 2763 540 133 14.73 Kevin Millar 2698 531 134 14.71 Mark Reynolds 306 62 17 14.71

thats as far back as their records go albert belle was there so probably 8 years or so worth of stats logged in i was looking for the 50’s stats to see where aaron would have been all time , he and niekro played on some pretty lean teams, niekro might could have legitimately won 500 if braves ever could have scored any runs in the 60’ and 70’s

anyone else see smoltz competing til he gets 300? i dont think he learned that knuckleball just for the fun of it, id like to see him pitch til he gets it.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Salty, yes, baserunners. It can tell us some things. But the results could be skewed because of guys being pitched around. And of course guys in a great homerun environments, even though homers are subtracted, are still more likely to drive in all runners on base with homers.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Okay, past performance in specific or more generalized situations tells us about ability.

By Random

January 10, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Somebody straighten out OrlandoFan — I’m gone for the day.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Lew, oh that’s right. Because past performance (along with age and things like body type and skill set) only tell us a lot about ability and does not give us a perfect picture of ability, we must ignore them.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun-No, past performance tells us nothing of ability. Take, for example Brad Komminsk or more recently, Corey Patterson. Boiothplayers had tons of that intangible ABILITY, however viewing their statistics in those generalized or specific situations only tell us they never reached that ability.

There is no statistic for ability. It is an intangible like potential and cannot be measured. Semantics, Dude, semantics.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Let me amend that somewhat. There may be no stat to tell us a player’s ability unless you wanted to count using radar gun readings for pitch speed or a stop watch to time how fast they run.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Look at the meaning of ability-being ABLE to do something. A statistic such as OBP or OPS will only tell you if the person lived up to the ability, not just that he has it. One automatically assumes that if a person achieves something then they did, indeed, have the ability to do it.

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Lew, you are right. Two players is a large enough sample to tell us past performance tells us nothing about ability. Again, because past performance doesn’t tell us perfectly about ability, that means it tells us nothing, right?

I guess we should just ignore Chipper’s .425 OBP and .604 SLG in 2007 and his career .307/.403/.546 line. They tell us nothing about what he’s likely to do if he’s healthy in ‘08.

By ncscoots

January 10, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Actually, you guys are mixing your stats a little. OBI (Others Batted In) is RBI minus HR. OBI% is a different stat: the fraction driven in of all baserunners on.

The usual disclaimer: my opinions are park-adjusted.

By Jas

January 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

SHOW ME THE MONEY! WHERES IT AT TERRY? YOU CLAIMED YOU HAD A GOOD AMOUNT, HOPE YOU WERNT THINKING 8MIL WAS A GOOD AMOUNT. CHEEPSKATE

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, and if a person lived up to that ability consistently in the past, that tells us something about his ability to do it in the future. Sorry it doesn’t tell us with pinpoint accuracy to stand up to your scrutiny, but past performance does tell us about ability; just not as perfectly as you seem to require.

How is a radar gun reading or a running time much different from a players OBP in his last 500 plate appearances? Both are measurements and both measure ability…again unless your standard is perfection.

Okay. I’m done. I think this is a ridiculous argument. There is no way you can actually believe that past performance tells us nothing about ability, as you said. If you do, it’s not worth the time because you’re hopeless. I’m out for the day.

By McFann

January 10, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Hey, Shaun, great link!! (The first link I ever clicked on, congrats. : ) ) Get this, people, (Shaun, you might regret having given me this link, but…)

MCCANN HAD A BETTER RBI PERCENTAGE THAN DAVID WRIGHT, HA HA HA HA HA!!!! (And Francoeur, too, but we knew that already.) ; )

By Lew

January 10, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Where did I say that there was anything wrong or flawed about using OBP, OPS or any formula you want to use for figuring run production? My problem was strictly with your terminology.

I was being Pavlovian again. I give you grief because I know that it will provoke a reaction. BTW, Dude, break out the towel. You’re foaming at the mouth again-Just like I knew you would.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 10, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , good point about Lofton’s team history , the dude has been passed around like a bottle of bad whiskey.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Pavlovian efforts aside-those stats tell us about performance and not ability. I couldn’t care less what a player’s ability is (after a point), but I very much care how they performed when given the opportunity to utilize their ability. Performance is utilization of ability, NOT ability itself. They are completely different, though somewhat related.

By BosnianBaller

January 10, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Other than the wire there isn’t a good show around.Scrubs comes to mind as second

By McFann

January 10, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Actually, if you discount Tex, McCann has the best RBI percentage of the WHOLE TEAM!!

But of course, RBI count is no way to judge a player’s abilities.

: )

By DAP

January 10, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

i think stats do show ability. if someone is able to perform, they will, right? why would someone not perform well if they are able to?

By McFann

January 10, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

One last Q: Does the number of runner shown on the chart thingy include the men that were on when the player bunted, grounded into a force out (fielder’s choice), GDP, and anybody else that was on base for a player, but that didn’t score (like, if the batter came up with a runner on second, but the runner didn’t score when the batter singled)?

By Shaun

January 10, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Lew, if performance is utilization of ability and certain stats tell us about performance, then it follows certan stats tell us something about ability, that a player utilized certain abilities.

Your problem is you think I’m saying certain stats measure ability and I’m actually saying certain stats tell us a great deal about ability. For example Chipper’s career AVG/OBP/SLG tell us a great deal about Chipper’s ability as a hitter.

By Lew

January 10, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun-No after a player is established as a productive ML ballplayer, ability ceases to have any meaning and only performance matters. Never said the stats were flawed or anything. It’s all about terminology and syntax, Dude, Has nothing whatsoever to do with the stats.

By N8

January 10, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Lew

I’m afraid I have to side with Shaun on this one.

You stated:

“Look at the meaning of ability-being ABLE to do something. A statistic such as OBP or OPS will only tell you if the person lived up to the ability, not just that he has it. One automatically assumes that if a person achieves something then they did, indeed, have the ability to do it.”

OK. Really, how do you judge somebody’s ability?

Stats are a TRACK RECORD that tell us HOW OFTEN we can assume that player will be ABLE to live up to his ability.

I have the ABILITY to bench press 300 pounds….with years of working out, practicing, and the right diet. (along with the occasional B-12 shot)….but there is NO TRACK RECORD of me doing so. So the odds of the US Olympic team putting me on the weight lifting squad are pretty minimal. No matter how many times, my agent would tell them about my “ability”.

I see what you’re saying about the ability. We all know that Andruw has enough power, and the ability to drive the ball out of the ballpark to RF, right?

But here’s the thing. The STATS say that he has VERY limited ability in doing so…..because he hasn’t done it.

So, like I said. What you said can be considered fair and correct, it’s merely hypothetical, IMO. Where Shaun’s stats, actually tell me more about one’s ability as well.

I have the ability to play guitar left-handed and blindfolded. Have I done it before? Nope. But if I dig down deep enough, the ability is there, right?

Who’s right? I dunno. But in all fairness, Shaun seems to be being more reasonable at this point, in listening to the other’s argument.

Sorry. Maybe I’m just mad at DOB for ripping me because I questioned Rafael Furcal. LOL! (just kidding)

By N8

January 10, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Lew and Shaun

I think what the two of you (and me - since I’ve jumped into your battle), are leaving out of all of this….

Is a players “ability” to change their ability, as their career moves along. Whether it be for better or for worse.

Let’s look at Barry Bonds (forget that the juice was involved for one second).

His “stats” from 1990 until 2001 “suggest” a certain ability of what he was CAPABLE of regularily producing with the bat.

But from 2002 until 2005 (I won’t count the last two year - because it CHANGED AGAIN), the stats tell us a completely different story, don’t they?

Lew, you said:

“…after a player is established as a productive ML ballplayer, ability ceases to have any meaning and only performance matters.”

I don’t buy that at all. From year to year, a player’s ability may vary. Smoltz does not have the ability to pitch 8 innings a night, for 35 starts, at full throttle….anymore. He ONCE DID, but you can’t blanket his ability he had at age 25 for his whole career, can you? His stats the last 2 years, give us a pretty good indicator of what his “ability” might be at age 40 or 41 or whatever he is for THIS UPCOMING SEASON, right?

Wren can’t trade for Randy Johnson, and then tell us at the press conference, that “we traded for him, because his past shows us that he has the ability to have 300 K’s by the end of the year”. That would be silly.

Just like me (in my last post), referencing Andruw NOT having the ability to take the ball out to RF. Surely he has that “ability” to do so, but until he DOES IT ON A REGULAR BASIS, I’ll go with the theory that he doesn’t have that ability. He may find the right hitting coach in LA that finally gets that information to sink in, and then we’ll all say “I always KNEW he had the ability to do that”.

Wow. I’m making myself dizzy. LOL!

By McFann

January 10, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Neight

Do you really play the guitar?

By Bryan

January 10, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

New Music Alert!

Black Mountain - In The Future

This album wont come out for another week or so … but folks lets not forget this one when we are doing our 2008 best of list … this is a DAMN good album.

Best so far of this young year… i have heard these guys referred as a mix of black sabbath and the flaming lips … i think they have some good folk mix in their too … maybe neil young.

also, if you like female vocals … check this out “Sia” - Some People Have Real Problems. Little Fiona, little Nico, a little Beck (beck is actually on the album) … get the picture?

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, for those interested, Boog’s calling this high school hoops game on ESPN2. It’s a team from Louisiana against Norcross, a suburban Atlanta school that’s nationally ranked. Already been a few dunks.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

BosnianBaller, Friday Night Lights, House and the revamped Law & Order range from excellent (FNL) to very good, among dramas. And the return of Law & Order Criminal Intent makes me happy (actually it’s just the season they showed last year on another network, now they’re bringing it back to NBC since the writers’ strike is killing everthing.

There’s a few hilarious shows other than Scrubs, including two that are better in my opinion: 30 Rock and The Office. But I do love Scrubs.

By DonCoburleone

January 10, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Wow, High School Basketball… No offense DOB, but I hardly even care about the NBA Finals or March Madness let alone a high school basketball game.

My God baseball can’t get here soon enough…

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

N8, he probably “capped out” at 46 in the majors primarily because it’s far more difficult to steal against pitchers who can slide-step and catchers who have great catch-and-release ability. In the minors, especially a-ball, you’re not facing that kind of opposition.

Also, Furcal had nagging injuries during the majority of his major league seasons, at least in the past five years….

nOLIE, I’ve covered Braves since 2002, but covered Marlins beginning in 1995, so I’ve seen Chipper plenty his entire career. And the only time I saw him appreciably bigger was 1999. And no, I’ve not noticed him being any smaller in recent years than he was in years past, other than 1999.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

BosnianBaller, there’s also a few great ones that are out of season right now, Rescue Me and The Shield, which is almost — not quite, but almost — as good as The Wire, to me. And one other comedy (I hate calling them sitcoms because they don’t have the canned laughter associated with sitcoms), It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia. It’s hilarious.

By Nelson

January 10, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Look: To me who finally plays center-field is irrelevant (nobody ccould do it offensivelly worst than Andrew Jones!). But I still insist this Team NEEDS A 3rd STARTER!, Glavine will be a good 4th or 5th but not the good and solid 3rd starter a championable team needs, tha’s for sure!. I think they made a huge mistake not resigning Dotel, if they free some cash from Andrew and Renteria, they should use it in pitching, GOOD PITCHING WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, it is not a DISCOVERY, everybody knows that!

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

DonC, I’m not watching either, to be honest. Just flipping through, heard Boog calling the game, and left it on that channel while I started doing some other crap. And I looked each time I heard Boog’s partner hyperventilating over a dunk.

By Efrim

January 10, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Here is a story:

FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal believes Mike Cameron could soon sign with the Yankees or Brewers.

The Yankees were saying they wouldn’t bring in a starting center fielder even if they dealt Melky Cabrera, but that was just more deception. It is a surprise that they’d perhaps put in a bid for Cameron before trading Cabrera. Rosenthal seems to believe that Cabrera could go to Cubs, Reds, Braves, Royals or Pirates in return for prospects. The Cubs also have some level of interest in Cameron, but he’s more likely to get multiple years elsewhere.

DOB

I understand that Cabrera is more than just a short term solution, but what do you think? He is someone that the Braves could probably deal once Schafer is ready. What do you think? Not sure how much it would cost to get the kid. I watch him quite a bit up here in New York, the kid can play a good CF, and work counts deep. Not sure if it is worth giving up a good prospect, but who knows.

By Braveheart

January 10, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Nelson Dotel has pitched 56 innings combined in the last 3 years. He spent more time in 2 months on the Braves on the DL than he did actually pitching. He wanted money and years on his contract. It rarely makes much sense to give relievers the $5 mil he wants, rarely makes sense to give them a long term contract, and never makes sense to give a long term expensive contract to an injury prone reliever who, frankly, even when he was good, was known for blowing saves. Even a two year contract for an injury prone reliever like Dotel is too long term.

Don’t know if this means anything but: In 1999, he was a major piece of a trade that got the Mets Mike Hampton and Derek Bell. In 2004, he was a major piece of a trade that got the Astros Carlos Beltran. In 2007, he could only get the Royals Kyle Davies in return. The dramatic decine in trade value might tell you he was not worth paying too much money or years for.

By Bama

January 10, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Happy Birthday Willie McCovey..

By Bo

January 10, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Would love to see Milky in Braves CF, or LF. The kids good and fits the Braves mold are model.

By Obi- Wan Kenobi

January 10, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Omar Minaya : Santana you do not need , good for the Mets is not. Trade you must forego , give to the Yankees you will.

By brian

January 10, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

in reply to the TV selection last night: painful channel surfing.

By N8coeur

January 10, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

DOB

Believe me, I’m not starting a war with you, and I understand that you might occasionally skim through posts (hell, I don’t read them all, and I usually don’t read every word of the ones I do read - if the topic isn’t to my liking.

But in response to my question of why Furcal “capped out” at 46 SB’s, you responded:

“N8, he probably “capped out” at 46 in the majors primarily because it’s far more difficult to steal against pitchers who can slide-step and catchers who have great catch-and-release ability. In the minors, especially a-ball, you’re not facing that kind of opposition.”

I just wanna point out that in my initial post on the subject (near the end of it), I stated the following:

“Add to that, IMO, even IF Furcal’s age was correct, he was obviously a good base-stealer. But how many great defensive catchers are at A-Ball, how many pitchers have perfected the slide step, or their moves to first base.”

So I’m not sure if you didn’t read that far into my post (I get it that they are too long and very well might skim over my crap to, if I wasn’t me), or if you are mocking me, by replying to my question with a sarcastic tone as to tell me my “theory” is stupid.

Either way….thanks for the response. :-)

By brian

January 10, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

in reply to the TV selection last night: painful channel surfing.

I have always enjoyed unplugged - McCartney, Clapton, Henley, Sting, Mellencamp, Nirvana, etc. Their classic songs rocked and some of their lesser known ones sounded great as well. As I mentioned, while channel surfing saw Bon Jovi unplugged so I tuned in a bit. I have never seen a more painful unplugged - they butchered, absolutely butchered their “hits”. Should have known better I know. Live and learn

By Hotspur

January 10, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

DOB -

Sorry, you’re still wrong about the first “Wire” season version of Tom Waits’ “Way Down in the Hole.” It wasn’t the Neville Brothers, it was the Blind Boys of Alabama. (I have their album it’s from.)

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Hotspur, I’m not “wrong” about anything. Nevilles sang it the third season. I never said they did it the first season. But if it’ll make happy the handful of folks still debating this issue, say I said whatever. My God. I merely said Earle did it this season and last and that I couldn’t recall the theme song from previoius season (I thought Early sang it last season, but some have found it reported elsewhere that he didn’t. Whatever. I don’t care that much).

When someone mentioned it’s been that song every year, just different versions, I then recalled the Neville Brothers’ excellent version and also the year they used the original Waits version.

End of story. Peace unto you.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

N8, i wasn’t mocking or being sarcastic at all, and yes I read your full post. Don’t you understand the different in what you said,your assertion about Furcal being 23 or 24 or whatever and facing inexperienced pitchers/catchers in the low minors, and what I said?

I said whether he was 21 or 23, he still was in only his third season in the minors when he stole 96, and only his first full, long season to boot. In other words, he had the same level of pro experience as the 19-year-olds he was running against.

Then I said he probably topped out at 46 steals in the majors because a., most pitchers in the majors can slide-step and have far better pickoff moves overall than in low minors, and most catchers have far better technique, and b., he had lingering injuries most seasons as he got older.

That’s not at all what you were asserting, which was that Furcal had some sort of advantage over guys he faced in A-ball simply because he may or may not have been a few years older. Merely being older doesn’t much help you if you have the same years of pro experience as the younger players you’re facing.

So please, stop the debate. I completely disagree with your point, and you’re not going to convince me that his 96 steals were any less impressive because he might have been older than his listed age in A-ball. Sorry, but you’re not. And I’m obviously not going to change your mind. Fair enough. Who cares? Moving on.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Efrim, Bo: I’m pretty sure Cabrera would be in any package the Yankees send to Minnesota for Santana. Now, if they don’t get Santana, I’m sure the Braves would have interest. However, I have doubts as to whether the Braves would be willing to give up multiple prospects to get Cabrera, but frankly I’m not sure. I don’t know their level of interest, haven’t spoken to anyone about him yet.

As I’ve said, one way or another I believe the Braves will get another CF before opening day. Just have that feeling, and have all along. Never though they believed Anderson was anything more than a last-ditch insurance policy, but I haven’t been told that directly.

By rich brave

January 10, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Dave:

ThanX for the tip on “JUNO”. So good I had to see it twice. Cool-way cool on a potential deadly subject - no pun intended.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Oh, and someone asked earlier about Devil’s Right Hand and whether Webb Wilder wrote it. No, Wilder covered it. Earle wrote it. Damn straight.

By mighty mike

January 10, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, it just goes to prove that Henry Miller was right when he said: We don’t talk anymore, we bludgeon each other with facts.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 10, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Okay, just so everyone’s clear and we can stop writing about it all together…

The theme to The Wire is a Tom Waits original called “Way Down in the Hole.” Each season it is performed by a different artist.

Season 1: The Blind Boys Of Alabama

Season 2: Tom Waits

Season 3: The Neville Brothers

Season 4: DoMaJe (five Baltimore teenagers: Ivan Ashford, Markel Steele, Cameron Brown, Tariq Al-Sabir, and Avery Bargasse) recorded specifically for the show

Season 5: Steve Earle

I am absolutely positive that these artists are correct, so no need to post any more about this particular TV theme song. If you would like to open debate about the alteration of the “Gilligan’s Island” theme song to include the names of the Professor and Mary Ann, please, be my guest. And I agree, The Wire is probably the best drama on television right now, but Dexter on Showtime is just as good. It’s more of a dramedy though, so it’s difficult to compare.

By rich brave

January 10, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Dave:

After all the posts I made on acquiring Santana in October and November, I’ve changed my mine on his becoming a Brave. Call it instinct if you will - or worse, but I think his injury is going to affect his future value to any team. Somehow I get the feeling the Yankees think so also.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

mighty mike, that was outstanding: A Henry Miller reference. The ol’ blog has been lifted, if only for a fleeting moment….

By N8coeur

January 10, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

After this response, I will move on, and accept you doing the same.

I was NOT trying to convince you or anybody that Furcals “stats” were unimpressive.

Nor was I specifically stating that his age was the SOLE reason for him putting up monster numbers in A-Ball.

I concede, the numbers are VERY impressive.

The reasoning for me bringing the age into the discussion, was initially due to bloggers saying the Braves won’t start the season with Schafer in CF, because he’s too young, and inexperience.

I was the one last night, who sarcastically mentioned Furcal and Andruw as proof that the Braves indeed WILL call up a kid if they think he’s ready.

So the question should be IF the Braves think Schafer is ready or not. Because they have proved to me, that if he is ready, Bobby would have NO PROBLEM inserting him into the lineup from day one.

I “get” the years of experience thing. But have you ever watched HS football, or community college sports?

It is ALWAYS very evident of who are the truly talented players. In a HS football game, or even baseball, since that’s the sport of choice on the MIB Blog, the superstars STAND OUT like a sore thumb. I live in a state where you need only one hand to count the guys who have have extended ML careers, and BELIEVE ME, when Darin Erstad was playing HS baseball, it VERY, VERY evident that he was head and shoulders above the rest.

So while, I agree and accept your comments that Furcal had the same (minimal) amount of experience as his counterparts, that doesn’t mean that he still wasn’t head and shoulders above his competition.

That is why I bring up the HS sports comparison. They’re HS kids (very similar in age and experience to 17, 18 and 19 year old rookie ballers), they have ALL been playing since little league and through HS. So essentially they have the “same amount” of experience as each other.

But there it is, in your local HS region. The kid who hits .750 with 2 or 3 HR in EVERY OTHER GAME, the pitcher who throws a one-hitter every other night. It happens.

All I was getting at, is that Furcal was older. Maybe he didn’t have as much “pro” experience as his opponents, maybe he more? I don’t know.

But it is quite evident that his talent (whatever his age was), was at a considerable level FAR ABOVE the guys he was competing against that year. Thus the quick call-up, I’m guessing.

So was he an amazing talent? Absolutely. Wish he was more consistent, and we had more money (though I’m excited about a full season of Escobar).

But I’ll repeat it. Had Francoeur lied about his age, signed two years later, and had a season of A-Ball at age 21, he would’ve put up MONSTER numbers.

Only so many guys can be “immediate super-stars” and continue that success towards a HOF career. Albert Pujols comes to mind in recent years.

Andruw came out the gates strong at a young age, and has put together a HOF career. Chipper probably would’ve done the same, but by the time he recovered from injury and switched from SS to 3B (where in 1991 there still wasn’t many outside of Ripken and Larkin as “power hitting” SS), he might have been “bigger” than he was, and he’s still VERY big superstar.

I guess some of this argument is directed at some of the people discrediting Francoeur’s accomplishments, so far. That just bugs me, how some can be so short-sighted on how far he’s come, and I think how far he’ll go. The kid appears to have good work ethic, and a willingness to listen to coaching, and at least TRY what they suggest.

Andruw didn’t, and as Furcal got older (what is he, 46 now?), his “approach” got worse and worse, with him hacking for the fences all the time.

Sorry to take up so much blog. Sorry to drag this discussion/topic on longer than it needed to. But what I thought was a harmless (and legitimate comment) about Furcal’s “wonder season” in 1999 in A-ball, apparently struck a nerve.

No harm, no foul, right?

Unless you specifically ask me another question, or respond to this (which I’m sure you won’t), it will be the last of this subject that I post.

SIDE NOTE

Funny story for you all. I’ve got a buddy that’s a Braves fan and we hadn’t talked in a while, and usually our topics of discussion veer towards the steroids, when we’re talking baseball.

Anyhow, I called to gab, and he didn’t answer, which led me to his voicemail. So I decided to be funny and leave a gag message (knowing he’d recognize my voice).

I stated that I wasn’t happy with my physique, and desired to put on 20-25 pounds of lean muscle this winter, and was wondering if he knew where I could get my hands on some lidocaine and B-12. Then asked if he found some if he was interested in injecting them into my azz.

I hadn’t heard from him, so I decided to call him this morning, upon which I asked if he enjoyed my message, or if his wife just rolled hers eyes as he played it back, just like my wife did when I was leaving it.

He stated that he NEVER got my message. Then called his wife to ask if she had erased it and forgot to tell him about it. She said no.

So it appears I left a message on a complete strangers phone asking if they know where I could get some drugs, and if they would like to inject them into my azz.

I don’t care who you are……that right there, is FUNNY!

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

By the way, speaking of the original “Way Down in the Hole,” it’s on Waits’ Franks Wild Years (sic), an excellent album that I happened to finally get on CD two days ago when I found a used copy at Don’s Ella Guru CD haven in Toco Hills Shopping Center here in Atlanta. Who in the world would sell back Waits’ Franks Wild Years, I can’t imagine. But until now I’d only had it on cassette, and that baby sounded like squirrels were eating on it every time I tried to play it.

There’s some other great music on The Wire, too. I love when they play the Pogues’ Body of an American, which they have numerous times. Pogues are one of my very favorite bands of the past 20 years. Tremendous group.

And now, a special late-night treat on the blog for those who waded through this post and this whole discussion:

It’s Tom’s original, from season 2 credits

By cmk

January 10, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

While Santana obviously would not make the Mets the runaway winner in the East next year, I think some of you are downplaying what kind of impact he could make for them. He would replace Glavine, Martinez becomes the number two, Maine and Perez were both under 4 era last year will be numbers 3 and 4, with a combination of Pelfrey/Hernandez/Humber/whoever at the 5. It’s not Boston’s rotation, but it isn’t bad either. Bullpen is a crapshoot every year. Most of the time you don’t know what you’re going to get out of 2/3 of your bullpen. The lineup won’t see any big additions, but I don’t see it scoring significantly fewer runs than a year ago. Again, this all depends on trading for Santana, but if that occurs, certainly gives the Mets more than reasonable potential for 90+ wins. Injuries could wreck all of that, but the same can be said of Chipper/Glavine/Smoltz or Hamels/Howard/Utley - all guys who are old or have had injury problems. Not trying to cause trouble on a Braves blog - just throwing my opinion out there.

By N8coeur

January 10, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

DOB

“…and that baby sounded like squirrels were eating on it every time I tried to play it.”

Funny. All my Whitesnake tapes sound like that too.

Weird, huh?

By N8coeur

January 10, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

cmk

If there is a Braves fan, in denial enough to NOT think the Mets obtaining Santana’s services wouldn’t “change” things.

You need not apologize if you were to “cause trouble on a Braves blog”

The trouble would run much deeper if that were the case.

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

now for those delving deeper, or just up late typing on the interwebnet because TV these days stinks (even John Stewart doesn’t have his writers back yet), here’s some of The Genius

By David O'Brien

January 10, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

N8, all whitesnake tapes sounded like that fresh out of the plastic. different type of crappy sound i’m talking about (wink).

By Steve McP

January 10, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

That is funny N8, even funnier if the person you called has caller ID!

By N8coeur

January 10, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

DOB

The Whitesnake comment was intended to get a rise out of you. I was laughing at your response as I typed it. I didn’t know EXACTLY what your response would be, but I knew I’d enjoy it. I had a hard time going with the “Whitesnake”, I was gonna go with the Bon Jovi Unplugged from last night, but anytime I can get the word Whitesnake on the blog, I can’t pass that up. LOL!

Steve McP

If my phone rings and “MITCHELL” comes up on MY caller ID, I don’t think I’m gonna answer it. :-)

By Bryan

January 10, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

NIce Waits video … god i love that song … funny story, i just saw that video tonight on one of my friends myspace profiles … a very nice young lady to boot!

Hey, i know your a steve earl expert and all … but i heard David Wright wrote Devil’s Right Hand … Hate to call you out on your own Man in Black/Steve Earl/Braves blog…

By Sonny

January 11, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Anyone else notice that Giles decline began the same year baseball started testing for steroids? Mmmmmmmm. I’m sorry, but you don’t just forget how to play baseball all of a sudden.

By BosnianBaller

January 11, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

yeah Always Sunny In Philadelphia and The Office are hilarious.Hey DOB we know your rock music choices what about rap? To me it’s only eminem b/c he doesn’t rap about money or women or any of the crap rappers rap about today.

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

well we now know that it is getting close to “PITCHERS AND CATCHERS REPORTING TIME”.

N8 and efrim are now back and in full bore. i love it. always have loved N8’S posts except when he continues to badger with a child.

LEW, i know you hate the mets, but if they wind up

with santana they have as good or better rotation.

they have the better closer but their bullpen depth is definetly an issue.

as for the everyday lineup it might be a push.

their outfield is better than ours, we get them at catcher and first base. though delgado aint bad but TEX is gonna be on the mid-summer roster.

i think the difference is REYES and CASTIILO, both those guys at this point are better than escobar and johnson. plus as a 1, 2 combination they know how to get on base. we really dont, let me rephrase that , we aint got a leadoff hitter.

we got no ROLLINS, REYES, both those guys are thorns in our side.

a great leadoff hitter changes the way a game is pitched.

for what it is worth k.j. is probably our best option.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 11, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

You’re right Bosnian… When so many rappers only talk about money and women, it’s so nice to hear one that instead raps about killing his wife and homosexuals. How refreshing. Try Talib Kweli, Dialated Peoples, Wu Tang Clan, Outkast, the Roots, or Jurassic 5. All of them are leaps and bounds ahead of the field (including Eminem)…

By Hotspur

January 11, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

DOB -

Ahh, right you are. My bad, ‘cause I was flying through the posts and didn’t read carefully enough. Mea maxima culpa.

Regardless: man oh man, do I love “The Wire” and do I EVER love that song, in every version they’ve used.

And unto you! :-)

By Lew

January 11, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

UGABrave-Even with Santana, Pedro and El Duque are old and often injured. Neither are going to pitch tons of innings and with the bullpen issues, that’s going to end up a problem. Maine can’t do it all on his own and Perez was real hot and cold the second half of the season.

Even if they made a good run at it this year (supposing Moises, Castillo the pitching staff and Delgado stay healthy), what about the next couple years when all of them will pretty much be at the end of their careers and they gave up all their prospects and ML ready kids to get Santana?

The Phillies just lost Rowand, who was a major spark plug for their offense last year. They still have third base issues. They have two pitchers, Eaton and Moyer, who had ERA’s over 5 runs per game. Even with Myers back in the rotation, they are thin and will get hammered in their little league stadium. Their bullpen is not that strong either. They will still score runs, but the Phillies are hardly a lock for anything, either.

The Braves may have question marks in center and maybe somewhat at short, but we have the deepest infield, rotation and bullpen in the division. We have the capability of winning the division. I would doubt that we run away with it, but we can definitely win. So can the Phillies, but without Santana, I don’t see the Mets fighting off injuries to pull it out and even with Santana, they are hardly a lock, either.

What would you think of the Dawgs being ranked Number One pre season next year?

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

a great leadoff hitter is key. how many times has reyes, or rollins burned us. reyes and rollins change the game early and late in the game.

we had the same thing in furcal. though i dont think he is worth what the dodgers are paying him, but he is still scary as a leadoff guy. speed kills.

so who hits leadoff for the braves? k.j. or escobar? both are better suited to hit in the 2 hole or deeper in the lineup.

i really think we are gonna miss edgar when it is all said.

you cant replace a guy like him that understands situatonal hitting.

By Mike S

January 11, 2008 1:37 AM | Link to this

BosnianBaller, you’re right, Eminem keeps it real. Rapping about beating his wife, killing his mom, and condemning gays. Word.

By Mike S

January 11, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

Actually, Bosnian, I do like a lot of Eminem’s stuff and I get the point you’re getting at about most of today’s rap music, I just thought it sounded a little funny the way you said it, when the first thing I thought of was Eminem rapping about killing his mother, and figured I’d bust your chops. :)

By Nolie

January 11, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Take, for example Brad Komminsk or more recently, Corey Patterson. Boiothplayers had tons of that intangible ABILITY, however viewing their statistics in those generalized or specific situations only tell us they never reached that ability.lEW

There are two sets of abilities being run together here.the guys who you mentioned had the physical tools to play baseball well but they did not necessarily have the ability to hit well.There have been literally hundreds if not thousands of athletic guys who never could hit and plenty of unathletic guys who could because they are two different abilities.Granted that the only thing that stats do perfectly is tell us what happened already. the most useful ones do give us some insights into ability though. OBP shows us about a players ability to get on base to create scoring opportunities. Sl% gives us an idea of how a player might do driving in runs as a guy with more power is more likely to get guys home from first with doubles or homers. One thing stats will never be able to do is tell us exactly how many or how much will occur in the future either from a player or a team . if they could anybody with a computer could correctly pick the final standings every year. Some of the newest created stats like VORP try to do this but they will never succeed cause there are just too many variables in the game as it is designed. and thank goodness too.

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

lew,

you damn good dawg. i think the dawgs will be as good or better than anyone in college football next year.

but the scary part we play at south carolina, a.s.u, then lsu, fla, kentucky, and auburn all on the road. in consecutive weeks.

oct. 25th through nov. 15th we play lsu, fla, kentucky, auburn all on the road before we get back to the hedges.

no way we get back home winning all those games.

if we do the heck with the SEC championship, we deserve the crystal.

By ncgary

January 11, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this

yeah ability and producing are 2 distinct words arent they, i have this old steinway from 1864 , had a mess cluttered over it for a long time , it isnt worth anything other than for making furniture legs is what i was told after i found it in an old dilapidated house on some land of mine, but after greenin for a while i uncluttered the mess and opened up the old baby grand and started ticklin the ivories , the first night it suxed second night i git a few good sounds , now i aint no concertists but i do have a new found talent,and i cant imagine any new pianos gettin the same sound as this one does, i did a little research and there were only 5 piano makers that year with the old man steinways last year, who knows this one might have finished up the day lincoln was shot, anyway for an old piano thats been sitting in a shed for around 100 years it still jams , so i had the ability and didnt know it, but yet i still want produce with it cause i do it just for funnin, anywayz get over it less than 6 weeks til p & c reports go braves

By Metropolitan Man

January 11, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this

Just caught up on the blog today. Wow, still so much Anti-METS lies going on. Lew, you were in rare form. 1 thing that can be said is you love you braves as much as I love my METS. However, your 2008 braves lineup currently sucks….very badly. You have confidence in a team with 2 third place finshes in a row. You lost integral parts of the team (SS, CF) that wasnt replaced properly. If you are counting on Escobar,you will miss Renteria. Glavine may not have been on the DL, but he has missed starts and his stubborness wil not allow DL status (Keep him some baby aspirin). Smolzt is bound to take a break during the season which leaves us with Hudson. That is the only pitcher that will give teams fits. Your pen isnt scaring anybody besides Soriano, waitng on Gonzo will have you in a hole trying to climb out of just like the past 2 seasons. You worry about Pedro, us METS fans arent. We see Pedro taking Maine and Perez to another level while El Duque continues to throw 60 mph pitches past the opposition. The 5th starter was our achilles heel last year and that will decide 08’. They went 5-17 last year. If the 5th starter can actually produce 1 more win, then hey we are on our way to the 90+ mark which guarentees you a playoff spot in the NL East. Optimism is expected either way but I am already prepared to gloat for this season. You might not understand but I have a team that almost made the playoffs and want to make things right with the fans. You have some 3rd place finishes to shake off before you go touting your chest towards the playoffs and your offseason tells me you wont be doing any better than the past 2 years, I guarentee that!!!

DOB, a concsious reporter/journalist should know that using a word like “upitty” when describing Coco Crisp could cause concern for those who arent open minded or secure. I didnt expect anyone on this blog to pick that up but I did and wanted to let you know offense wasnt taken, but was more suprised you actually typed the word.

LETS GO METS!

By flange1

January 11, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Metro Man,

Thanks for the overview of the Braves and the Mets. Your viewpoint is certainly interesting if nothing else.

A couple of things you left out:

The Mets had the most dramatic (I should call it Amazing) collapse in the history of baseball. Choke is not actually a good enough word for it. Did you for get that?

The Braves will have a full season of Tex. Did you forget about that?

The Braves have improved their rotation. They too had issues in the 5 hole. They have 8-9 candidates for their rotation this year, Did you forget about that?

The Mets lost their C and RF, sorry but who are the replacements? You want to talk about the Braves losing their CF and SS, remember that the new SS was in the lineup alot last year and did pretty well.

You say that there is no one to fear in the Braves bullpen but Soriano, but who is to fear in the Mets pen? Are you totally depending on Sanchez’s return and Wagner’s return to make your pen solid?

By the way, what is the fallout in NY from Wagner’s comments?

You guys got an attitude problem on the Mets team? How are the fans going to react to the Choke?

I’ll be waiting for your thoughts..

And by the way

GO BRAVES

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Metroman, I think many of us believed Random’s use of uppity was offensive. Or at least I did. There are definite very harmful racial/racist connotations about the use of that word, especially when it is said in reference to a black ballplayer. But I think Random’s use of it was meant more as a commentary that Bobby Cox was the racist who doesn’t like black players on his team, and especially not black players with attitude. Doesn’t make the use of that word right but I don’t think many of us wanted to take the bait and start a racial war. We’d rather fight all day about such trivial things as whether a triple is better than a Sac fly or whether there is such a thing as an RBI guy. There was an idiot last night who threw out the ‘token negro’ comment. That idiot was ignored and deleted as well from what I can see.

I think DOB knew what Random was trying to say and just tried to diffuse it without causing a race riot on the blog by focusing solely upon the literal definition of the word. DOB and many others here try really hard not to turn this into a sad little Falcons blog. But maybe we all should have just jumped all over Random for the pathetic use of that word. But whenever you do that, the trolls act like there is blood in the water and they start throwing out even more harmful racist phrases to get everyone fired up and the blog becomes hell and almost everyone ends up unintentionally saying something racist or racially insensitive in trying to address the issue. And then it gets really hard to tell who the good guys/bad guys are. But if you just let the comment stick out like a sore thumb, well, then the blogger himself sticks out like a sore thumb.

By rammerjammer

January 11, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Morning, all.

Agreed that Braves should not sign Corey Patterson, as it will tempt BC to use him at leadoff. Don’t want none of that.

Kotsay would be a good stop-gap, but, really, it ain’t all that important.

We’re talking about the #8 hitter on a team LOADED with offense. Just need someone to catch and throw for one season until the kid is ready.

By Random

January 11, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Apologies to anyone who may have been offended. Please read “uppity” to mean “disrUPTIve” in a misguided attempt to be cute and clever. Disruptive to clubhouse “chemistry” is what I meant. (Though, it turns out I was probably wrong about that too, as I mentioned earlier.)

Thanks, Braveheart (and DOB) for the benefit of the doubt (I think).

By Random

January 11, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Shaun—

Okay.

By ncscoots

January 11, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

I swear, there should be new rules…

He’s only batting 8. Anyone posting something like this should be forever banned from complaining when said 8 hitter hits into a rally-snuffing DP.

Surely he can hit at least as well as AJ did last year. Anyone posting something like this should be reminded, often, of the third place finish that went along with that CF offense. Maybe a tattoo would work.

There’s a lot more in this vein showing up recently…brains too close to the hot stove, I’m guessing. We need actual, real, American baseball news, DOB! Or, at the very least, a controversial rumor with absolutely no basis in fact, LOL. Go start one, willya?

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Come on, scoots, I’m trying to find ways to be positive. It’s really hard to be positive about the centerfield/#8 hitter dilemma without trying to excuse it away by saying he’s just the 8 hitter or he can’t be worse than Andruw.

Gotta find a way to love Stopgap Eight or I become filled with Stopgap Hate.

By Efrim

January 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Buster dropped this on his blog today

Oakland is looking for a right-handed hitting outfielder. The Athletics’ talks with Atlanta over Mark Kotsay have a chance of becoming serious today, by the way; the Braves are looking for a total salary dump, while Oakland wants a middling prospect coming its way while picking up some of Kotsay’s salary.

Sigh. I just don’t understand this. He is washed up. I understand Cameron wants two years at like 12-14 million, but why not? I think it is worth it. Whatever, as long as it isn’t Josh Anderson in CF.

By Billy Walsh

January 11, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I still cant understand why or how the mets have the “lead” to land Santana. Any package that contains Hughes has to be the favorite. I still feel that Yanks are going to land him. If you are going to trade an elite #1 starter, why would you ask for outfielders and a mediocre pitcher from the Mets? If its not Bucholtz or Hughes the Twins would be crazy to deal him elsewhere. DOB, if Melky is available would the braves be interested, and what type of package would be needed to acquire him? Hes cheap, plays solid defense, great arm, and a line drive hitter. I would take him over Kotsay, Cameron, and Crisp in a second. I know the braves are only looking for stopgap, but what happens if Schafer doesnt pan out? For all the players that do realize their potential, there are many more that do not.

By Edward M

January 11, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

You keep mentioning Josh Anderson and Jordan Schafer as being the next centerfielder.Their’s a diamond in the ruff by the name of Gorkys Hernandez. Keep an eye on him in spring training.

By McFann

January 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Funny story, Neight. Disturbing, yet comical. Ironically, just a few minutes ago, I answered the phone for my mother. It was some Discover Card thing that I could barely hear. Anyway, thinking it was a recording, I said, “I can’t hear the stupid thing.”

Turned out to be a live voice, asking for my father, who’s at work…oh well. Guess they’ll never call us again.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

“uppity” is a racist term? i think i missed something.

met man your 2008 braves lineup currently sucks….very badly.

your whole post was full of errors, but lets just take this one…the mets would love to have ONE hitter the caliber of chipper, and the braves have two, back-to-back. i think tex alone will pick up the slack lost when andruw left. andruw had 26 HR and 94 rbi, tex had 17 HR and 56 RBI while with the braves. i think its likely that tex will approach 43 HR and 150 RBIs (andruw and tex’s numbers combined) in 2008.

also, the braves have some of the best young players in the game in frenchy, mccann, escobar, johnson… the braves have a GREAT lineup, and anyone who knows what they are talking about agrees. the mets are just sad.

the mets NEED santana to have a prayer in 2008. and then, they will have limited replacements when castillo, beltran, delgado, alou, el duque, martinez hits the DL. i personally think the mets need to scrap it and build for the future. if i were them id would trade delgado, pedro, castillo, el duque, and any of the old players they could to get prospects, cause they need them. then they can build the team around wright, maine, reyes and beltran. if they chose to rebuild right now, they could be back in the NLCS in a couple of years.

By Shaun

January 11, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I think it’s really pretty simple: Stats are basically measurements of what a player has done. Certain stats (OBP, SLG, ERA, RA) tell us more about ability than others (RBI, R, W-L), although there is no such thing as a completely perfect stat that is going to wholly and completely tell us about a player’s ability (no one ever said that). But it’s silly and just flat out wrong to say stats tell us nothing about ability. No one will every convince me that many of Chipper’s career stats tell me nothing about his ability only performance, as Lew asserted. I suppose if we measured how fast Lew typed, that would tell us nothing of his ability to type, just his performance. How ridiculous does that sound? Okay, I’m beating a dead horse here. And I think Lew is taking a Robert-type position here so no sense dignifying it with any more posts.

By Shaun

January 11, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

No after a player is established as a productive ML ballplayer, ability ceases to have any meaning and only performance matters.

I think this is the strangest statement I’ve ever read. Lew said himself performance and ability are related. So how does it not follow that if ability matters then performance matters? Can’t perform without ability. I doubt I’ll every perform like a Denzell Washington or Eddie Van Halen or Chipper Jones because I don’t have that ability. Ability will always have meaning because if a player no longer has ability, he won’t perform. Okay, that’s it. It’s getting ridiculous.

By flange1

January 11, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

I don’t want to speak for Lew, but I think his point was that Brad Kommink and Corey Patterson have ability and as minor league players showed potential.

The stats for them show their past performance. It shows what they actually did. It DOES NOT show their potential or even their ability.

Neither of these guys actualized their ability.

I think that this is another case of arguing over semantics and word choice versus arguing over ideas or philosophy.

By J.D. Phillips

January 11, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Just don’t see the Mets with many aging players and that late season collapse lingering over their heads being able to rebound to win the N.L. East. A team really needs to step it up a notch in this division. I think the playoffs last year proved this division may be the weakest in the N.L. and I would not count on a wild card team emerging out of it. With a full season of Tex and Chipper batting back-to-back, the continuing improvement of younger players and IF Smoltz and Glavine both hold up I cannot see the Braves not being able to win this division and be a threat in the playoffs.

By rammerjammer

January 11, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Banned? Forever?? I’ll risk it.

It’s the number eight hitter for cryin’ out loud. The bottom of the order. OF COURSE he’ll be a rally killer!

No negativity here at all. I’m absolutely positive it ain’t a big deal. If Frank wants to bring in Kotsay or whoever, that’s fine.

Now I DO think it’s good to have a vet out there…no sense putting in an overmatched kid who ain’t ready. Hurts him, and us.

But a vet who can throw and catch, with a reasonable OBP? Kind of a Cesar Geronimo type? Yeah, I think that’s just fine.

Regardless, I’m not losing sleep over it!

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Billy Walsh, Braves believe only an injury could prevent Schafer from becoming a very solid major league player. After seeing him in Arizona against more advanced prospects, I’d have to agree.

But that possibility is a big reason they acquired Gorkys Hernandez, who’d be waiting in the wings if Schafer struggles or something else happens to him in the next couple years.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Edward M, the operative phrase in your post is “in the rough.” Gorkys just turned 20 in September and has played one full season of pro ball (in low A). He’s probably at 2-3 years from being a consideration for the major league team. And I won’t be able to keep an eye on him this spring simply because he won’t be in major league camp — he’ll be with the minor leaguers.

Very talented prospect, from all that scouts say. But still slender and still raw offensively. He’s a kid.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Efrim, by what Buster wrote, he was talking about only in the case of Kotsay. In other words, to trade for Kotsay the Braves would be looking for a total salary dump on the part of Oakland, due to Kotsay’s injuries and diminished production the last couple years.

That doesn’t mean they’re looking for a total salary dump from any center fielder. There are others they’d pay to have, who are very viable players without the risks that Kotsay has. Perhaps Cabrera, or a Crisp, or a Patterson, though as I’ve said only if Patterson came very cheap.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Flange1, just to add to your post that mentioned the Great ‘07 Collapse by the Mets: I was throwing out old magazines this morning and came upon a June Sports Illustrated with the Mets on the cover. It was a long feature about the great job Omar Minaya had done constructing the team, etc, and how the Mets had led the East for most of the ‘06 and ‘07 seasons to that point.

And just a few months later (and still today), Willie Randolph and even Minaya are on the hot seat.

So Mets worshipers, just blame it on the SI cover jinx.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

your 2008 braves lineup currently sucks….very badly.

The Braves will score 5 runs a game and over 800 runs for the season the way they have for the past 2 seasons.

*You lost integral parts of the team (SS, CF) that wasnt replaced properly….. If you are counting on Escobar,you will miss Renteria. *

Edgar was replaced with Yunel. Edgar had a career year last year. But in 2006, he hit .293, .361, .436 and the Braves scored over 5 runs a game that season. For his career, Edgar has hit .291, .349, .407. The Braves will get at least that from Yunel and the Braves will be happy with it.

Tex has replaced Andruw. No reason to get into statistical analysis to talk about how much of an upgrade that is.

Whomoever our centerfielder is, will be hitting 8th and will only have to do better than the .247, .304, .376 the Braves got out of 8 hitters last year to keep the team scoring over 5 runs a game.

Glavine may not have been on the DL, but he has missed starts and his stubborness wil not allow DL status (Keep him some baby aspirin).

You mean the guy who started 34 times for the Mets last season? You mean the guy who led the Mets in games started in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007? You mean the guy who led the Mets in innings pitched in 2004, 2006, 2007? You mean the guy who helped your team to a 42-24 record the last 2 years when he started?

Smolzt is bound to take a break during the season

Yeah, that old man who has started 100 games combined the last 3 years and has pitched 667 innings combined the last 3 seasons. Yeah, he might need a break for a week or so during the season but at least he makes over 30 starts and pitches over 200 innings. Tom Glavine is the only Mets pitcher to go over 200 innings the last 2 seasons.

which leaves us with Hudson. That is the only pitcher that will give teams fits.

Huh? In case you have not been paying attention, as good as Hudson is, Smoltz has been far better than Hudson the last three seasons.

Your pen isnt scaring anybody besides Soriano

Really? Keep sleeping on Peter Moylan and see where that gets ya. Acosta is pretty filthy. Yates is a decent middle reliever. Devine is filthy and has all the talent in the world if he gets his head and emotions in check. He made substantial progress with that last year and by the end of 2008 will be a dominant force to be reckoned with in the 7th and 8th the way Joba Chamberlain was for the Yankees last year. Bennett will be fine as a long reliever. Ohman is a really good lefty reliever now that he is out of the not so friendly confines. Ring is a good situational lefty except for all of those walks. The Braves are more than fine with their bullpen.

waitng on Gonzo will have you in a hole trying to climb out of just like the past 2 seasons.

What hole were they climbing out of last season? Gonzo was pretty much a nonfactor the whole season and the Braves had the 3rd best bullpen ERA in the NL.

Metroman, you sound like you are trying too hard to convince yourself.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

your 2008 braves lineup currently sucks….very badly.

The Braves will score 5 runs a game and over 800 runs for the season the way they have for the past 2 seasons.

*You lost integral parts of the team (SS, CF) that wasnt replaced properly….. If you are counting on Escobar,you will miss Renteria. *

Edgar was replaced with Yunel. Edgar had a career year last year. But in 2006, he hit .293, .361, .436 and the Braves scored over 5 runs a game that season. For his career, Edgar has hit .291, .349, .407. The Braves will get at least that from Yunel and the Braves will be happy with it.

Tex has replaced Andruw. No reason to get into statistical analysis to talk about how much of an upgrade that is.

Whomoever our centerfielder is, will be hitting 8th and will only have to do better than the .247, .304, .376 the Braves got out of 8 hitters last year to keep the team scoring over 5 runs a game.

Glavine may not have been on the DL, but he has missed starts and his stubborness wil not allow DL status (Keep him some baby aspirin).

You mean the guy who started 34 times for the Mets last season? You mean the guy who led the Mets in games started in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007? You mean the guy who led the Mets in innings pitched in 2004, 2006, 2007? You mean the guy who helped your team to a 42-24 record the last 2 years when he started?

Smolzt is bound to take a break during the season

Yeah, that old man who has started 100 games combined the last 3 years and has pitched 667 innings combined the last 3 seasons. Yeah, he might need a break for a week or so during the season but at least he makes over 30 starts and pitches over 200 innings. Tom Glavine is the only Mets pitcher to go over 200 innings the last 2 seasons.

which leaves us with Hudson. That is the only pitcher that will give teams fits.

Huh? In case you have not been paying attention, as good as Hudson is, Smoltz has been far better than Hudson the last three seasons.

Your pen isnt scaring anybody besides Soriano

Really? Keep sleeping on Peter Moylan and see where that gets ya. Acosta is pretty filthy. Yates is a decent middle reliever. Devine is filthy and has all the talent in the world if he gets his head and emotions in check. He made substantial progress with that last year and by the end of 2008 will be a dominant force to be reckoned with in the 7th and 8th the way Joba Chamberlain was for the Yankees last year. Bennett will be fine as a long reliever. Ohman is a really good lefty reliever now that he is out of the not so friendly confines. Ring is a good situational lefty except for all of those walks. The Braves are more than fine with their bullpen.

waitng on Gonzo will have you in a hole trying to climb out of just like the past 2 seasons.

What hole were they climbing out of last season? Gonzo was pretty much a nonfactor the whole season and the Braves had the 3rd best bullpen ERA in the NL.

Metroman, you sound like you are trying too hard to convince yourself.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Come on, scoots, I’m trying to find ways to be positive. It’s really hard to be positive about the centerfield/#8 hitter dilemma without trying to excuse it away by saying he’s just the 8 hitter or he can’t be worse than Andruw.

Gotta find a way to love Stopgap Eight or I become filled with Stopgap Hate.

By McFann

January 11, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

DAP

You are very correct about the BRAVES lineup. It ROCKS. Like you typed, the Mets are just sad. Maybe they’re also a little jealous of the BRAVES lineup. It’s true, the Mets would kill for a player like Tex or Chipper. And they got all those old guys! It’s like, DL City. I mean like, totally!!

But I guess before we spout out about how great we are, we oughta wait at least for Spring Training to start. (Pitchers and catchers report in 34 days!!!)

By nOLIE

January 11, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Bobby Cox was the racist who doesn’t like black players on his team, and especially not black players with attitudeBraveheart

What a total load of cr@p.Everybody loves playing for Cox including the black players. there has never been any indication that he is prejudiced against blacks. and plenty of players were unhappy with Lofton in Atlanta. and as has been stated already he has been averaging about a team and one half per year the last 6 years and nobody brings him right back. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being black and everything to do with his attitude and behavior.

By ncscoots

January 11, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Gotta find a way to love Stopgap Eight or I become filled with Stopgap Hate.

roger that, bubba. :-) Which is why I’d love to see someone in CF who ISN’T going to bat 8, LOL.

But, I actually understand the rationale (or spin) that some put on the situation. It’s no fun contemplating the bottom third of the order with two rookies and the pitcher.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun Okay, that’s it. It’s getting ridiculous.

its been ridiculous ever since you got here. just kidding. but not really. :-)

J.D. Phillips I think the playoffs last year proved this division may be the weakest in the N.L.

i dont see how you got to that conclusion. the cubs won the central last year with 85 games. they lost in the first round too. i think most everyone would agree THAT the worst division in baseball, nevermind the NL. just curious, why do you think the east is the weakest?

By Lew

January 11, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-I know you are really concerned about how bad the Mets will be this year and I realize that makes you say things you don’t mean-that you certainly can’t justify- but Mets’ lies? Surely you don’t think I would LIE do you?

Fact-Duaner Sanchez has pitched zero innings in over a year. You’re counting on him to make your bullpen actually work this year.

Fact-Carlos DelGado had his worst season of his career in BA, SLG% OBP, and OPS+. He is 36 years old and missed 23 games. The Mets have NO backup 1B.

Fact-Pedro Martinez has pitched 84 innings since June 1, 2006-22 months from the start of this season. You are counting on him to lead your staff (providing you don’t land Santana-at what cost to the future?). He has chronic foot and leg issues and is returning from major arm surgery.

Fact-The Mets have no pitcher who pitched 200 innings or more-He is with the Braves.

Fact-El Duque Hernandez is 43 years old and only pitched 147 innings last year. I foresee strain on the less than dominant pen and the need for another non existent starting pitcher to fill in for him.

Fact-Moises Alou is 42 years old, has chronic leg problems and missed 75 games.

Fact-Castillo is 35 years old, has chronic leg problems and missed 27 games.

Fact-Oliver Perez had an ERA of almost 5 runs per game the final two months of 07.

Fact-Mike Pelfrey won all of 3 games and had a 1-1 K to BB ratio.

Fact-You replaced an All Star Catcher with one who hit .235 in 400AB.

Fact-You replaced Green in right with Schneider who missed 18 games.

Fact-Your much vaunted closer has come out VOCALLY about how bad the Mets are this year and how dissatisfied he is.

Fact-In order to get Santana, the Twins are asking for a package including the 5 top prospects in your system. You will be left with one of the oldest teams in MLB and no talent ready to replace any of them.

Those are the facts, MetroDude. No lies involved. Every fact carefully researched and double checked. All the truth, the whole truth and nothing but worries for the Mets. Y’all need Santana to hope you can even equal last year’s less than stellar performance.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the double posts. Don’t know what happened there. Bizarre.

Nollie Your 11:42 post was completely freaking irresponsible. To pull that quote out of what I said in my 8:38 post was pathetic. Provide some damn context. By no means do I believe Bobby Cox is racist. But you pull that quote out and post it with zero context to make me look like I was saying Cox was racist. Nollie, I had respect for you but I just lost a ton. That was the move of a little punk with little reading comprehension. Now I know what athletes mean when they say they were taken out of context.

By Random

January 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Forget the Kentucky Derby — the new “most exciting two minutes in sports” is Brian McMann hitting a triple.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

MetroMan, apparently you didn’t grasp my use of quotation marks around the word. Oh, well. Read or be offended by whatever you see fit to read or be offended by, my friend.

By Shaun

January 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

flange1, I see your point and Lew’s point. But his words were stats tell us absolutely nothing about ability, which I think is obviously not true.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Your pen isnt scaring anybody besides Soriano

why would soriano be afraid of his own bullpen?

By J.D. Phillips

January 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

DAP -

The N.L. West has to be considered the strongest. I was basing the Central having a little advantage over the East because it has been 2003 since the East has even has a team reach the World Series. The central IMO also seems to have a little more completion from top to bottom. Maybe this is because the teams are weaker or perhaps more competitive. I don’t know. The Reds alone gave the Braves enough trouble. However, I see your point. I just figure this seems like the right time for the Braves to assert themselves back to where they belong. That being the N.L. champs.

By Random

January 11, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

nOLIE—

I never said that, I never meant that, I’ve never thought that.

And don’t blame Braveheart for calling me on my indiscretion and/or lack of sensibility.

And please read other relevant posts before you go nuclear.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the double posts. Don’t know what happened there. Bizarre.

Nollie Your 11:42 post was completely freaking irresponsible. To pull that quote out of what I said in my 8:38 post was pathetic. Provide some damn context. By no means do I believe Bobby Cox is racist. But you pull that quote out and post it with zero context to make me look like I was saying Cox was racist. Nollie, I had respect for you but I just lost a ton. That was the move of a little punk with little reading comprehension. Now I know what athletes mean when they say they were taken out of context.

By cricket

January 11, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Looks like totally against my nature, I’m going to pat the dead horse left alone by Shaun. Some stats should be considered in proper context, which itself can be provided by other stats. E.g. OBP and SLG give good indication of any hitter’s productivity. OBP and SLG with RISP give very good indication of any hitter’s ability of producing runs. A guy with better OBP and SLG with RISP is the guy who should hit at a position in the lineup where he would get more opportunities to hit with RISP.

By ncscoots

January 11, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Random, just on the off chance that there actually is a reason for it, what’s the deal with setting bold links everytime you mentioned someone’s name? Are you really expecting folks to click back to the comment, or do you just like the way it looks?

In any event, that kind of thing gets to be one annoying goober after a while. :-)

By DAP

January 11, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

J.D. Phillips I just figure this seems like the right time for the Braves to assert themselves back to where they belong. That being the N.L. champs.

word.

The central IMO also seems to have a little more completion from top to bottom.

yeah, complete crap. houston, pitsburgh and cincinnati all qualify as horrible, i would categorize st. louis on the low end of mediocre…actually maybe on the high end of horrible, and milwalke at the high end of mediocre, with the cubs being the only “good” team.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

LEW, your’re making excellent points. But the one Fact you left out is that they still won more games than the braves. despite all the other facts you pointed out. I do agree the Mets pitching rotation has more question marks than the braves but that was the same last year. No one could have predicted that Maine and Perez would each win 15 games with ERA’s in the Three’s. The season has to play out. I do beleive that getting Santana would make the Mets pretty good 1-5 (Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque). That would be solid rotaion……We’ll see.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Random, my bad. It’s not right for me to get outraged at Nollie but not apologize to you.

By ncscoots

January 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

DAP, I’m gonna have to disagree with your characterization of the Brewers. That team has solid starting pitching (which could go to stellar, if Capuano returns to form), they’ve shored up their bullpen, and Fielder-Braun-Hardy-Weeks-Hart is a pretty good core of players. They’re my early pick for their division.

By J.D. Phillips

January 11, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

DAP yeah, complete crap

You got that right.

By dgd

January 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Lew—Mostly good points in response to metroman, but the right fielder for the Mets replacing Green isn’t Schneider—he’s a good field/no hit catcher—the right fielder is Ryan Church from the Nationals. Church is a bit of a head case, but did make great strides last year. He’ll probably give the Mets about what they got out of Green. Church is younger but doesn’t throw like Green. If the Mets land Santana, I like their rotation more than that of the Braves, but agree that their team is old with many question marks. Don’t underestimate Brian Schneider’s positive influence on the Mets’ pitching staff though. The guy worked miracles with the ragtag rotation the Nationals trotted out last year (remember the dire 120 loss predictions for the Nats last off-season—as I remember our own DOB was a member of that chorus). Didn’t happen and Schneider was a big part of the reason why. I was really surprised the Nats parted with the guy….

By [TEST](http://www.ajc.com)

January 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Braveheart—

No harm, no foul.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

I have it from a very sound source that the Kotsay stuff has progressed quite a bit. More to come.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

scoots youre right about the brewers. id rate them as solidly mediocre.

By [TEST](http://www.ajc.com)

January 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: what’s the deal with setting bold links everytime you mentioned someone’s name? Are you really expecting folks to click back to the comment, or do you just like the way it looks?

I link as a convenience both to me (not having to extensively quote the post I’m commenting on) and to others (having the option of easily referencing the prior post — or not — without taking up a lot of page space).

I bold other bloggers’ names as a sign of respect.

Would it be less annoying if I were to forego the bold, or are the links themselves also annoying on their own?

PS: I do like the way it looks, but it’s an open relationship involving no significant emotional investment or commitment by either side. Like I said, a relationship of convenience. 8-)

By OrlandoFan

January 11, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

The more I think about it, the more I prefer Kotsay over Patterson. I think he brings more character and perhaps could fine the patented Braves fountain of youth that has helped so many (primarly pitchers, of course). Patterson is younger, I think, and undoubtedly has more opportunity to improve, but Kotsay just feels more like a Brave. Looking forward to hearing more. Oh, and I think Cabrera would have to be considred a longer-term solution. Too high a price tag.

By 22oz

January 11, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Check off Mike Cameron. The Brewers have signed him to a one year deal.

By ncscoots

January 11, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Random, no sweat, bro. If you keep using the links, I’m guessing I’ll be able to survive it :-).

Basically, I was just looking for a shot at using “one annoying goober” in a post, LOL (a tip o’ the cap to Braveheart for that fine blog phrase).

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

dap,

from the standpoint of “team” the brewers may be mediocre, but their middle of the lineup is as good or better then the braves.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Here’s the top part of the story I just filed, which should be posted online soon. Kotsay called me a little while ago and it sounded like it could get done today, though the Braves would still have to look over the MRI and such before any announcement. So even if they do agree on a deal, it probably wouldn’t be finalized before Monday.

But anyway, here the story, or at least most of it:

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

The Braves might soon have the short-term veteran center fielder they’ve been looking for, and Mark Kotsay said he’s excited about the possibility of coming from Oakland to fill the role.

Athletics general manager Billy Beane called Kotsay this morning and told him they were discussing a trade to send the 32-year-old center fielder to Atlanta for a mid-level prospect. The A’s would likely also pay a significant portion of Kotsay’s $8 million salary in 2008.

He’s a strong defensive center fielder and .282 career hitter in 11 major league seasons, but back surgery limited Kotsay to 56 games in a career-worst 2007 season (.214, one homer, 20 RBIs).

He said he’s finally recovered completely from March 2007 surgery, and Kotsay was on an elliptical machine during a workout Friday as he confirmed he could be traded to Atlanta.

“It does excite me,” the former Marlins and Padres outfielder said possibly playing for the Braves — even if it were only for one season, before he became a free agent after the 2008 season.

“I love Bobby Cox, and I like Atlanta and the Braves, as far as the team and organization, the history they have. They’ve always been competitive. It’s a great opportunity if this [trade] happens.”

Kotsay hit .214 with one homer in 214 at-bats before the out-of-contention A’s decided it best to shelve him in mid-August. He had arthroscopic back surgery in spring training, and said Friday that he rushed his recovery because he wanted to help the A’s stay in the playoff race.

“My team needed me and I probably came back too quickly,” said Kotsay, who totaled 72 doubles, 30 homers and 145 RBIs in 1,188 at-bats during the 2004-05 seasons, before chronic back problems flared in 2006.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

By the way, Kotsay said he feels great, finally. He was working out, breathing hard on an elliptical machine when he called me.

When I asked him if he’s got some years left, he kind of laughed and said, “Got to.”

The way teams are paying players these days, I’d say so. Who could possibly walk away at 32 if you believe you can still produce and if someone will take a chance on you.

He acknowledged the Braves would be taking a gamble in that he played so little last year. But he said, and I believe him, that he really does feel good now, that he just rushed it too quickly last year. If you think about it, coming back in June from March 2007 back surgery was a bit extreme, even if it was “just” arthroscopic surgery.

He said they shaved off a piece of a disc, a piece that was lodged up under something. Said he thinks that’s what caused his problems in recent years.

By Shaun

January 11, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Kotsay is a little older and had injury problems last year, but he’s not over-the-hill, even for a baseball player, and he’s hit .282/.337/.415 over his career versus Patterson’s .258/.298/.414 line. Patterson hasn’t really had a season as good as Kotsay had through age 27, so it’s looking like Patterson may never be so much as an average offensive player. Kotsay’s injuries and, to a lesser extent, age are a concern but it could be a nice low-risk deal depending on who the Braves give up.

By Josh H

January 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DOB: Who do you think the Braves would send over in a trade? Hopefully no one of real value, like Lillibridge, or Brandon Jones. But I’m guessing you’re looking at giving up at least one decent prospect…maybe two if they take on a huge chunk of salary.

By 22oz

January 11, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Looks like you really got the ball rolling on this deal DOB. This may settle the debate on whether Braves officials read the blog!

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

well it looks like we found the one center fielder that had a worse year then andruw did.

if the braves pick-up anymore then $1 million of his contract they got fleeced. raul mondesi anyone?

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

If they get Kotsay and he’s healthy, I think you probably have your No. 2 hitter. He’s hit there far more than he has any other spot in the lineup (leadoff second-most) and his career numbers in the 2-hole are .281 average, .344 OBP, .422 slugging, 123 doubles and 42 homers in 1,968 at-bats.

One thing very attractive: he doesn’t strike out much. Less than once every eight at-bats in his career as a No. 2 hitter.

Kotsay’s never struck out 90 times in a season, and had more than 500 at-bats in six of his 10 seasons, and 495 in another.

Before missing most of last season, he had 606 at-bats in 2004, 582 in 2005, and 502 in 2006.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Josh H, I don’t think it’ll be anyone quite that highly rated in their system. I don’t think it’ll be one of the guys the Braves are really projecting as long-term future lineup regulars, and I don’t think it’ll be one of their very best pitching prospects.

By Jared

January 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Kotsay just doesn’t seem like a wise move. The Braves are basically paying a few million for pretty what they could get from Anderson or Blanco or maybe even Schafer next season.

By Andy

January 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Kotsay in a Bravos Uniform? Awesome!!!! Can’t wait to see this deal be official!

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

I’m not against the Kotsay move. It is a good move. The Braves will likely give up very little and its really low risk high reward type of move. I think overall I would prefer Patterson but Kotsay will fit the bill.

I think hoping that Anderson or Blanco can get the job done is a much higher risk than acquiring Kotsay. Besides I would bet either Blanco or Anderson will wind up being an unoffical platoon role with him anyway.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

uga-Brave, one difference: Mondesi came to Atlanta coming off an injury-shortened season and with a terrible clubhouse reputation, after playing for four teams in the previous two seasons and having been run out of L.A. and Toronto earlier in his career.

Kotsay is coming off an injury-shortened season, but had a tremendous reputation as a team player with all three teams he’s played for in his pro career, the Marlins, Padres and A’s.

And before that, he was voted one to the all-time team in the College World Series, where he still holds several records from a couple of trips there with Cal State Fullerton. In other words, he’s been a winner most of his career, and no one has ever, ever accused him of not getting the most of his talent.

Yes, he’s a gamble like Mondesi in a sense of coming off a big injury. But Mondesi was three years older, with a LOT more wear and tear, both from the field and from years of late nights. Laaate nights.

By Nate

January 11, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

I wish they could put a package together and score Blanton along with Kotsay.

By 22oz

January 11, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

If Kotsay’s a good #2, then i like Kelly in the 7 spot. He looked good there the few games he played last season, and with his power, i think it would work very nicely RBI wise.

This trade is a gamble, no doubt. But if he can give us at the worst a half season to further develop Schafer, then its worth it.

By Shaun

January 11, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Jared, there thinking is probably Anderson, Blanco and Schafer are very young and could use more seasoning. And if one of those guys steps up big time in Spring Training, well they have a quality extra outfielder and left-handed bat off the bench.

By Nate

January 11, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Anderson isn’t much of a hitter. Blanco is a fourth outfielder type and Schafer isn’t ready. How could anybody bash this move?

By cpiw

January 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

hey everyone, check out this real picture of mrs. jamie kotsay

jamie kotsay

still opposed to this trade?

By mo in the boonies

January 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

And it doesn’t hurt that he’s got a good looking wife!

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Just to underscore what I’m talking about, the difference between Mondesi and Kotsay, here’s something I found from a story when Kotsay signed his extension in july 2005. Then-new A’s owner Lewis Wolff was active in that negotiation with Kotsay:

“The person most giddy about this was Lew Wolff,” Beane said. “Like everyone else, he’s grown very fond of Mark as a person and for the way he represents the organization. … Mark’s as fundamentally sound and as complete a player as you’d want to find, and an absolutely class act and gentleman off the field.”

By OrlandoFan

January 11, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

As I wrote seconds before DOB filed his story, I like this move. I think the guy has some game, and he’s motivated highly to come back and prove his value. It’s like the Braves get a guy in his contract season, coming off injury, trying to re-establish his value for one more big, longer-term contract. The potential upside is much more likely than Anderson or Blanco could promise. Yes, it’s a gamble, but a cheap one.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Nate, I think you hit the nail precisely on the head (4:29 post), in terms of the Braves’ view of this situation.

By David-ATL14

January 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

My guess would be Joey Devine. Though I wish it was Boyer since he’s out of options.

Still a good move.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

uga-brave i wasnt comparing the brewers lineup to the braves lineup, so while your point is valid, its irrelevant.

By Salty

January 11, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Kotsay: “I love Bobby Cox…”

That oughta set Robert off!!!

By uga-brave

January 11, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

gonna have a slew of LH hittters on this team. this might mean thorman’s days are numbered.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

By the way, Kotsay has a .290 average with two homers in 30 games (106 at-bats) at Turner Field.

Which isn’t nearly as impressive as cpiw’s offering above.

By DAP

January 11, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

i have have to think about this trade (if it gets done) a little more before i know for sure what i think about it, but first impression, im glad the braves got a veteran. this is a very young team, and itll be good to have veterans at a number of key positions.

By McFann

January 11, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

So…what would the Braves have to give up in order to get this guy from the A’s? Doesn’t sound too bad of an idea, but that really depends on what they trade to the A’s, IMO.

Hey, 22oz, maybe if the new guy bats 2nd, then instead of having Johnson bat seventh, he could bat in front of Francoeur. I mean, ya know, Johnson pretty fast. ; )

By McFann

January 11, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Bizarre. A whole buncha posts disappeared.

By Renegator

January 11, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

I like this trade so far. But we still don’t know who we have to give up and how much the A’s are paying of Kotsay’s 8 mil.

If he is a free agent next year then we don’t lose any money that can go towards trying to get Tex long term. Or more pitching next year.

By bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars

January 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Sign his wife. Shes worth 3 million, i’d say. What a fine piece of grass she is standing on.

By Random

January 11, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Braveheart—

No harm, no foul.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

DAP, what’s the worst that can happen? They give up a mid-level prospect, pay maybe $3 mill of Kotsay’s salary, he gets hurt early and they have to go with one of the guys they were going to have to go with now, or they trade for another guy if they don’t think one of these guys can get the job done.

Really not a huge risk, in that they’d not be counting on him the way they were Mondesi and B.J. a few years back when both got hurt. Braves already have Anderson, and can stash him at Richmond in case Kotsay’s back acts up again. But I’m thinking, from talking to him, that the back problems might be corrected, at least enough for him to get through most or all of the season.

If he were to have a recurrence of problems at midseason, well, that extra 2-3 months of seasoning for Schafer might be all it takes. If not, like I said, Anderson’s there.

By Mac

January 11, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

But Kotsay was (a) never as good as Mondesi was at his best, and (b) already on the decline when he got hurt.

By Metropolitan Man

January 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

LEW DOB,and other brave fans. For a team to finish 3rd, you guys act as though you have closed the gap on the METS and philthies??? I think you guys better worry about Chumpers injuries because he may give you guys 100 games. Make sure him and Smoltz are on the same team because we all know Smoltz will call his lazy broken hooters grabbing butt out. What bench do the braves possess? The METS have Marlon Anderson, Damion Easly,and Chavez who all fill in nicely. Most probably put up better numbers then some of your starters in part time capacity while at times on the DL. 3rd place, thats where you guys will finish even without Santana. You guys act like the METS have a further way to the top then the braves. 1 game away from the division does not make one an automatic loser the following season. It should make you feel as though the division is thiers. Bottom line your additions and subtractions just dont compute to a better record than 08 for you guys. Keep hope alive bravesfans, your gonna needit more than METS fans, and thats REALITY!!!

By flange1

January 11, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the inside info!

I will be happy if the deal happens.

But question for the group, if the deal happens, with Kotsay’s injury history, will the Braves carry 4 OF ( B. Jones/Diaz, Kotsay, Frenchy) with Infante as a potential CF backup or carry 5 OF with Anderson/Blanco as a backup?

My Choice would be to keep 5 OF, let Diaz also back up at 1B, keep Infante and Lillibridge as backup IF and then have the back up C.

We would be losing Thorman and Aybar…

Thoughts?

By JC FROM UT

January 11, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

I think Kotsay is the best option for a stopgap as long as Oakland is picking up some of the tab. Buster Olney mentiones that Oaland wanted a right handed outfielder, any chance the deal is expanded to include Matt Diaz along with a prospect or two and we get Blanton or Houston Street as well.

By Adam

January 11, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

I heard it was Joey Devine for Kotsay.

By ChrisinPA

January 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars

nice to have another phishhead in the group!

By ChrisinPA

January 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars

nice to have another phishhead in the group!

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Don’t have an answer about whether Braves would carry 4 of 5 OFs if this deal goes through, and I don’t think Braves would make that decision until they see how well Kotsay holds up during spring training. I mean, if he’s perfectly fine in spring training and doesn’t have any problems with the back, they wouldn’t have to have an extra OF just to back him up. Know what I mean? That’s not a decision I think they’d make until they see how he feels this spring.

Also, the trade, even if they agree to it in next day or two, probably won’t be finalized until Braves examine MRIs of his back carefully, and probably have their own doctors examine him and take new pictures of the back to make sure it looks sound.

By Anders

January 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

From Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports:

Kotsay, 32, would be a good fit if healthy, and he’s a free agent at the end of the season. However, his $8 million salary is beyond the Braves’ budget. The low-revenue A’s would want a higher-caliber prospect if they included cash in the deal.

In other words you either pay in prospects or pay the salary. Nobody gets a free ride so stop dreaming about sending a slug to the A’s and having them pay $4 mil of Kotsay’s salary. BTW- Kotsay married one of David Wright’s rejects.

By AdirondackDave

January 11, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Ok, Kotsey looks like a good one-year pickup to me. A quality guy with plenty to prove this year. Who knows, Braves may catch lightning in a bottle and get a repeat of his 2004 season. If not, he does a nice job in the outfield and apparently isn’t costing much. Now maybe the guys can focus on getting Tex to sign on the dotted line.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

With Santana the Mets top of the rotation matches the braves. Santana, Pedro, Maine VS Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine. The back of the rotation may favor the Mets with El Duque and brave killer Oliver Perez. I know the Mets haven’t traded for Santana (YET) but it’s still the off season and it’s fun to contemplate.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 11, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Hey , It’s not my money. Go for it. Kotsay is an established veteran with a bazooka for a throwing arm.

Apparently Oakland is willing to eat the majority of his contract and they are asking for nothing more than a mid-level prospect.

Three million , one year. It’s worth the risk/reward.

By BosnianBaller

January 11, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

I was taking about Eminem as a rapper.We all come up diffrently and it’s much better to say in a song something sucks than actually going out and hurting someone or something.

Kotsay should bat leadoff or seven

By Randy S

January 11, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Ditto on BBFCFM

By nOLIE

January 11, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Nollie Your 11:42 post was completely freaking irresponsible. To pull that quote out of what I said in my 8:38 post was pathetic. Provide some damn context. By no means do I believe Bobby Cox is racist. But you pull that quote out and post it with zero context to make me look like I was saying Cox was racist. Nollie, I had respect for you but I just lost a ton. TBravehart

Metroman, I think many of us believed Random’s use of uppity was offensive. Or at least I did. There are definite very harmful racial/racist connotations about the use of that word, especially when it is said in reference to a black ballplayer. But I think Random’s use of it was meant more as a commentary that Bobby Cox was the racist who doesn’t like black players on his team, and especially not black players with attitude

I pulled it out of your post. I’m sorry if I misread it, but to me it read as you were saying that Random(not you) was indicating that Bobby is a racist. You may not have meant that and if so I apologize, but that is how I read the post I still read it that way so if you meant something else please explain so that I can see where I went wrong. I was responding to the above and not accusing you of saying he is a racist, just vehemently saying that he is not.

By chris

January 11, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Another attractive thing about Kotsay is his OBP. I like this move so much more than picking up Patterson for that reason alone.

Chris from MD

By nOLIE

January 11, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Check off Mike Cameron. The Brewers have signed him to a one year deal.22oz

Thank the Lord. One less overpriced bum we have to worry about signing with the Braves. Kotsay would be a great pickup if he is healthy, and not a huge mistake if he gets hurt ..depending on who we gave up.

By Greg in TN

January 11, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Evening gang…

Some quick thoughts on today’s news from DOB on Mark Kotsay. I remember him blister a very good Vols pitching staff in the 1995 CWS en route to an MVP and a title for the CS-Fullerton Titans.

I think a deal for Kotsay works well for the lads of the Tomahawk, gives Jordan Schafer time to jell in Mississippi and we have a guy that has a solid bat and someone I feel is a solid replacement for Renteria in the 2 hole when healthy, and from DOB’s conversation with him, it sounds like he will be.

Back out gang, but will slide back in later for a bit between HS basketball and gearing up to make the drive down I-75 to the land of the peach tomorrow for Braves Fest.

An aside before I do file back out, haven’t seen any posts from Chris Klob lately, I hope the Klobber is still doing well. Chris, your absence from the blog is noted my friend. Hurry back.

By TennesseePaul

January 11, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

No word on who is included from the Braves side I guess. I would imagine one of the CF we have would be included to take his place for the A’s. They’ve made no secret about aiming for the gutter in 2008. So it probably wouldn’t matter if it’s Anderson or Blanco.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Coach, you’re right about his arm: Entering last season, Kotsay led the majors with 105 outfield assists since 1998, ahead of Vlad Guerrero (102), Bobby Abreu (95), Andruw Jones (90) and Carlos Beltran (87).

I was covering the Marlins in 2000 when Kotsay, playing RF, recorded three assists in one game at Baltimore, including two in one inning.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Nollie, I just didn’t like the way you attributed the quote to me in the fashion you did. Let’s just say random used an unfortunate word, i misinterpreted random in an unfortunate way, you quoted me in an unfortunate way. we’re all good dudes who respect each other so let’s all just say no hard feelings and pretend none of it happened. but man when i saw you quoted me like that it sure as hell ticked me off. now that i have cooled off and read your response, i realize where you might have been coming from. so, no hard feelings.

By Lew

January 11, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-The Braves have improved their team during the offseason, with new utility guys, a more dependable starter in Glavine and with the addition of Jurrjens -now apparently Kotsay. The Mets have lost Glavine, lost Green, lost LoDuca and replaced them with iffy players at best. They have not replaced Glavine, much less added needed depth to their ancient, injured pitching staff. They are counting heavily on three pitchers, Pedro, ElDuqe and Sanchez, who have missed all or major portions of the past two years.

The Phillies lost their center fielder and haven’t replaced him. They have no established third baseman. Their bullpen is suspect even with the Houston trade. They have two pitchers who had ERA’s in the 5’s. They are not stronger, either. Who knows if the good or evil Burrell will show up.

Seems to me your citing third place finishes is pretty disingenuous, especially considering the Mets played sub .500 baseball from the end of May until the end of the season, culminating in the worst tanking of baseball history. Tell me again why we should be quaking in our Adidas?

By McFann

January 11, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

MetMan

Seriously, dude. You really are pathetic. The way you keep touting the Mets and bashing the BRAVES makes you seem insecure. I think you’re just so terrified of the BRAVES that you’re willing to jump on any little thing that might go wrong. Our bench? we got Omar Infante, Martin Prado…but you’ll really have to wait for Spring Training to make your judgement. All I cann type is, tell your Mets friends that they better get ready to face a much better BRAVES lineup than the one they saw last year! (Except shortstop. That’s not quite as good as last year, but other than that!!)

By chris

January 11, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

This is a terrific move if all Kotsay costs is a mid level prospect and the A’s eat part of his salary. Why does Beane still do business with the Braves? As far as I’m concerned, Wren has made a series of strong moves this winter. He hasn’t overreacted. With this kind of management, I’d hate to be a Phillies or Mets fan.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Check out “mlbtraderumors.com” It seems that the Mets have become the front runners for Santana. I personaly like the Mets agressiveness. I don’t think that trading some of your farm system hurts a big market team the way it does a small market team. The Mets have the money to re-load unlike lets say the Twins, Pirates ect ect. Look at the Yankees and Red sox as an example. The Mets do have some home grown talent on the roster but they’ve filled in the gap through free agency because they can. I must say I’m excited about the possibility of bringing in one of the best pitchers in baseball to New York.

By chris

January 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

I just saw that on mlbrumors.com. That’s a great site. I still don’t know who the Twinkies get for giving up Santana to the Mets and Reyes isn’t involved.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

The Mets are NOT going to land Santana. This is classic. Teams use the Mets and the Red Sox to get the Steinbrenners acting like a bunch of children who have overdosed on sugar. The Steinbrenners can’t stand for the Mets to ever steal the back page of the Post or the News. The Twins know that. They are only bluffing with the Mets to bait the Steinbrenners into giving the Twinkies what the Twinkies want.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Lew, Spring training hasn’t started yet but it’s great to see the trash talking heating up. I do think the braves have improved their rotation but have taken a step back in defense with the loses of Jones and Renteria. The Mets mean while have upgrade defensivley with Schnieder and Church but need to fill the vacancy that Glavine left. Pedro should do that but that won’t be enough to be strong contender for the division. The trade for Santana would do that. If you can honestly say as a man that that trade becoming a reality doesn’t worry braves fans a little I would doubt your character a bit.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Come on Mets fans. Be realistic. The Twins have no interest in any of the crap you guys are offering up. The Twins know they blew it back in December when they had the Red Sox and Yankees one upping each other. Now, they are trying to bait the Yankees and the Mets into one upping each other. The Mets have no shot at winning that bidding war - especially not with the crap they are offering.

By Ray

January 11, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

there’s rumblings that joey devine is in the trade, any truth to this??

By nOLIE

January 11, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

now that i have cooled off and read your response, i realize where you might have been coming from. so, no hard feelings.Braveheart

Cool with me. Just a communication snafu.

By DonCoburleone

January 11, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

I like this move by Frank Wren. A nice little gamble that all GM’s have to make in order to produce a winning product year in and year out. Worst case scenario his back flares up again and we lose $3mil and a fringe prospect, no big deal…

DOB, would a Scott Thorman or Martin Prado be too high a caliber player to include in this deal? Or do you think it will probably be more like an A or AA level prospect?

By GeorgetownKid

January 11, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

In the big scheme of things, this is a relatively low-risk move in that it only involves a one-year committment, a few million dollars, and a mid-level journeyman prospect. So it is foolish for anyone to bash this move too much, because the stakes aren’t particularly high.

That being said, I don’t see how the modest increase in offensive production (with Kotsay over Anderson or Schafer) is worth $3 million and a lost prospect.

It just doesn’t seem like a very high return-on-investment.

By chris

January 11, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

The thing I love about the Mets is that since its inception, it’s been a carnivalesque organization. The team is usually outlandish. They started out with a senile manager and completely inept players with names like Choo Choo Coleman. In its golden era, it was team of freakish characters like Dykstra and Strawberry that would steal bases and start on-field brawls with ten run leads. Then its Mo Vaughan and Vince Coleman. Now it’s an experiment on how ancient a team that can be fielded and still be in MLB. The fans are completely neurotic, paranoid, filled with delusions of grandeur, and consumed with a rage that can come only from spending life in New Jersey or on the Long Island Expressway. They don’t care about winning. They just want to win ugly. You go to a game at Shea, and they’re usually screaming profanity and screeching about the sexual orientation of players from visiting teams. A Met hits a homerun, and a nasty, giant, dented tin apple arises from behind the CF fence and fans scream, venting their joyous hatred of life. It’s kind of endearing in a sick way.

Now Mets fans are fantasizing and boasting about a magical trade that will slay their bugbear, Chipper Jones and his Braves. God, I love being a Braves fan. I love that the Mets exist. Spring training can’t come soon enough.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 11, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

The splits on Kotsay are interesting to say the least. His BA is .282 facing both right handers and lefty’s.

However , he pounds the ball against right handers with 80 Hr’s vs. 23 against the southpaws.

Here is a scouting report on him.

Assets : He’s an excellent contact hitter and has made great strides in the patience department. Though he doesn’t have blazing speed, he knows how to run the bases. His biggest asset is an arm that has explosiveness that would put to shame anything Smith & Wesson could concoct.

Flaws : Though he can hit both righties and lefties with equal consistency, he is more susceptible to the strikeout against southpaws.

Career potential : A very dependable everyday center-fielder.

By Ray

January 11, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

MLB.com on Friday got confirmation from multiple sources that the A’s and Braves are close to finalizing a deal that would send Kotsay, 32, and cash to Atlanta for at least one high- to mid-level prospect, but the most connected such source said the deal “absolutely” wouldn’t be closed before Monday.

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.c…sp&c_id=oak

By TennesseePaul

January 11, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

Of course, the value of compensation the A’s would be looking to receive would be based on the portion of Kotsay’s salary that they’d continue to pay. When these talks began, the A’s were asking for some highly regarded prospects
—[Mark Bowman](http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080111&content_id=2344103&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

By TennesseePaul

January 11, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Try this link

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080111&content_id=2344103&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Thanx chris for caring. It’s a miracle the Mets have won 2 world championships even with all their malfuctions. If we could just be more like the braves who since arriving in Atlanta have only won one world series we would be on our way to recovery.

By David O'Brien

January 11, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

DonC, while I wouldn’t rule out someone like a Thorman or Prado being part of the deal, I’d think A’s would want at least that much. I’m thinking a younger guy, maybe not as far along in his development as either of those two but with a higher potential ceiling.

By Ray

January 11, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

i dont think A’s have much use for thorman/prado. they have enough 1b/2b as is. unless Prado plays a good SS.

According to Buster Olney the Braves want a complete salary dump, while the A’s want to pay partial salary for a prospect in return.

By Lew

January 11, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Sniper-You would doubt my character if I didn’t get worried about the Mets getting Santana? Just how would that make me a bad person? We need to get something straight here, too-I’m not talking trash. Tell me exactly where I have miscalculated anything whatsoever to do with the Mets.

You have not replaced Glavine. You THINK Pedro will win 13 games, yet he has not pitched a full season in two years. He has pitched a total of 84 innings in the preceeding 22 months when the season starts. You will be quite lucky if you get 125 innings from him. Glavine pitched over 200.

What about the depth of your rotation? What happens if El Duque misses time again? How many times was he DL ed last year? At least twice. What if Pedro’s toe problems start up again? Or his hip? Or if his surgically repaired arm hurts again? Who will you put in their spots? All of those rookies you’re going to trade for Santana? How about Pelfrey at the back of the rotation who stunk last year and only won 3 games? What about the poor bullpen who will have to pitch all of those innings that your starters don’t?

What do you do when DelGado goes down again? You don’t even have a back up 1B on your roster. What about when Moises misses half a season yet again? How good are your replacements for LoDuca and Greene?

Dude, I keep hearing about all this cash the Mets have to sign whomever they need since they have no farm system. Yet they haven’t spent anything (except to sign Alou) in two seasons. They haven’t even found any reject pitching for depth.

Time for you and MetroDude to face facts-The NMets are significantly weaker than they were last year, when they were a team with a losing record from June to the end of the season. By the last month, they were in absolute disarray and they have done nothing in the offseason to amend that fact. I can’t understand why you are so optimistic.

Now the Braves. Yes, we lost Andruw Jones. It’s a shame, but he was not worth the cash. We have plenty of replacements capable of playing a good defense. It now looks like we will get Kotsay, so the offense oin center will be fine, too. AS for defense at shortstop-EDgar was a great hitter and a competent shortstop. He was no longer defensively elite. Escobar has considerably more range than Edgar and has a rifle arm-almost on par with Furcal’s. Don’t worry for us-we will be fine. Let us not forget we have Tex for an entire season as well. Our bench is considerably better than last year’s too. We ‘re better, the Mets aren’t. Them’s the facts, Dude. Read it and weep. Third place for the Mets. Even Santana won’t change that fact.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Lew, If this is strictly an “IF” kind of argument then we could go on and on all night. Yes, I agree with you there are scenarios that would be bad for a Met fan but there are good one’s too. I’m a Met fan so obviously I’m gonna look at the bright side of things. You’re a braves fan and will do the same for your team….that’s cool. I just don’t think the Mets will go quietley into the night and serve up the division to your braves….We’ll just have to wait and see. I do like your passion for your team.

By brian

January 11, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Thorman or Prado I am fine with dealing for Kotsay assuming the A’s pick up some of the contract.

I would not be a big fan of trading away a significant prospect or young player such as KJ.

The key to that trade is what we have to give up. If not a significant prospect it will be a good trade because of reasons mentioned above.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Dude, I keep hearing about all this cash the Mets have to sign whomever they need since they have no farm system.

The truth about the Mets is they don’t have a legit farm system and the Wilpons don’t want to pay luxury taxes. So, they will never get Johan because they don’t have the prospects and, even if they did, the owner does not want to pay Johan $20 million and then the luxury tax money on top of that. Keep dreaming Mets fans. The Twinkies are just playing with you so they can get what they want from the Yankees. Minaya and the Wilpons are just toying with ya so they can pretend they tried.

By SNIPER-69

January 11, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

I have just one question for you LEW. This time last year did you predict the braves would finish 3rd?? I’m sure you put out all the worst case scenarios for the Mets. BE HONEST. And they still finished the year with a better record than you thought they would. Who’s to say that all your gloom and doom won’t befall the Mets and they go on to have a 3rd straight year of baseball that surpasses your predictions.

By BabyGoatEater

January 11, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

I like this trade for Prado. Not for Thorman or Devine. Some of you will disagree, but I think Prado “is what he is” in terms of talent. He’s a slightly above average player at most aspects of the game. I just think Thorman or Devine could be a special player one day. Thorman has raw power. If he could learn to hit off-speed stuff a little better, he might hit 30-40 homers one day. Devine might turn into a very good setup man, or possibly a closer one day very soon. (We all know what they cost to sign these days) I just don;t see Prado very being a great player. Kotsay is a pretty good center feilder. He’s a little old and his back has been through the gauntlet. A one year rental is probably worth Prafo and $4 Mill. I dont think he’s worth Devine or Thorman and his whole contract.

By Braveheart

January 11, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Kotsay hitting second makes alot of sense. Hitting in front of Chipper and Tex will give him alot of good pitches to hit. This could make him better than he really is because pitchers have to be more aggressive with him. Kotsay probably will not be as strong of a hitter deeper down in the order with less protection.

I was kinda worried about KJ hitting second in front of Chipper and Tex. KJ’s immense patience might have worked against him hitting second because pitchers would have been so much more aggressive with Tex and Chipper coming up next.

KJ might be one of those guys who might do better with less protection while he is hitting seventh. If pitchers are more likely to pitch around him, he will just take the walk. And if KJ is hitting seventh, this will provide more protection for Frenchy and McCann. Frenchy and McCann deserve and need more protection since they are not that patient and pitchers can take advantage of that. PLUS, KJ has outstanding numbers with men on base and with RISP which would make the lineup deep with people who can drive in runs and extend rallies whereas Kotsay is less likely to be able to drive in a run as KJ would deeper down the order. But Kotsay will be able to get on base enough at the top of the order to make the harm of dropping KJ down the order not that bad.

Of course, you could say KJ hitting fifth makes alot of sense too since he does so well with men on and with RISP. Batting fifth would also benefit Frenchy and McCann to have yet another good OBP guy like KJ hitting in front of them since McCann and Frenchy are both much better hitters with men on base and with RISP. Frenchy and McCann are probably better hitters with men on because when runners are on base and especially in scoring position, the runners on and in scoring position are providing them the protection the hitters behind them don’t provide. They get to see better pitches they can drive.

But I think the lineup would be better with KJ at seventh so that he can protect Frenchy and McCann who are not patient enough and more likely to suffer from pitchers pitching around them. If another legit hitter like KJ, who is more difficult for pitchers to battle than Frenchy and Mccann, is behind the two of them, Frenchy and McCann are more likely to get really good pitches to knock around the park.

With that being said, I still think KJ would be good up at the top of the order like he was as a leadoff man last season but the lineup overall might be better with Kotsay second and KJ fifth or seventh.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it. No, I know I am. But it’s fun to think about anyway.

By Mike S

January 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

BabyGoatEater, I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly. I’m hoping it’s Prado over Thorman or Devine…

By Mac

January 11, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Why would the A’s, who already have Dan Johnson (basically a better version of Thorman, not that that’s all that hot) and Daric Barton want Thorman? Why would anyone want Prado, who is no different than say, Nick Green? Give me a break.

By N8snake

January 11, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

Uh-oh.

Here I go again.

By Zac

January 11, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

The best part about Kotsay coming over? His wife. Just google “Jamie Kotsay” and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

By Lew

January 11, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Sniper-I fail to see that last year makes any difference right now, any more than your 86 World Series win. Of course I thought the Braves would do better last year at this time, but that was also before we lost two pitchers in Spring Training and Gonzalez by mid season. That was before Mike Redman. At this time last year did you think the Mets would have the worst collapse in modern baseball history?

Like I said-the Braves have gotten better. They now have pitching depth they didn’t have last year. Also, I’m still not counting on Hampton or Gonzalez coming back and we still have depth.

Yes, there are scenarios where the Mets COULD win. There are also probably scenarios where the Nationals could pull it off too, but I’m betting that won’t happen.

I’m also betting that your scenario of Pedro coming back to pitch 175+ innings with 13 wins won’t happen. Or Moises playing a full season. Or El Duque. Or DelGado. Why? Because they haven’t for several years now. Sanchez and Pedro have missed more than an entire season. To expect them to contribute in the manner you think they will is just absurd-Could we interest you in MIke Hampton?

You have no pitching depth. Or depth at first. Or the bullpen. You do, however, have four second basemen on your roster. This is good, because Castillo and Gotay have injury problems too.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 11, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Well , I just assumed that a mid level prospect meant a minor leaguer. Of which the Braves will trade for Mark Kotsay.

Maybe a pitcher , rather than a position player ? We shall see.

By Overlord

January 11, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Where did everybody go???

By TheBigDawg

January 11, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

MLB.com is reporting “the A’s … would send Kotsay, 32, and cash to Atlanta for at least one high- to mid-level prospect…” RotoWorld.com is speculating “that means they’d be giving up a pretty good prospect in return. Jordan Schaefer and Brent Lillibridge should be off limits. Perhaps the A’s are looking to gamble on Eric Campbell’s power potential. Reliever Joey Devine might be another possibility.” DOB, please tell me the Braves wouldn’t be paying that much for damaged goods.

By N8snake

January 11, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Overlord

“Where did everybody go???”

No doubt. It’s like the still of the night around here.

:-)

By car3boogie

January 12, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

DOB Will you be at fan fest and if so bring me a BBQ sandwich…. I was told Fat Mats was a good rib joint down town. If so will my GPS find it.

By car3boogie

January 12, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

Oh and BTW the Kotsay deal Get it done..can not see a better deal out there more perfect for the Braves Situation.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

n8,

just got back from chops and have been catching up. if we dont give up a pitcher for kotsay the trade is really, the more i think about it, a cant lose situation. it is a one year rental.

if he plays well score one for the home team if he goes the way of rico bronga or mondesi no sweat off our back.

now if we give up someone like devine, who had flashes late in the year it is stupid. the money part should not concern us. the talent part should.

i really believe devine has a future.

seems like if healthy kotsay would be a great defensive cf. he does have a cannon of an arm and he is, from what i have read a get yourself dirty kind of cox player.

no harm in this trade as long as we dont give up any real pitching talent.

now a couple of people have said if we could somehow get blanton in this deal it would be great.

agreed, if hampton is healthy, why not send chuck and duck, gorkys, and prado for kotsay and blanton.

on the a’s side i saw that dan myers , remember him the guy we sent for hudson is finally starting to pitch better. he had a very good year in the minors for the a’s.

smoltz, hudson, glavine, blanton, hampton. kind of dreaming but that would be a fun rotation to watch.

By DAP

January 12, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

MET MAN can you tell me which one of the mets bench players will have better stats than a braves regular? that was a stupid thing to say, and i cant wait to read what stupid thing you say in response.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

the latest issue of the sporting news ranks all of the starting rotations.

the bad, they rank the braves as the 8th best in the n.l. the good they rank the mets and phillies behind us.

no argument with the d’backs and padres being 1 and 2.

By DAP

January 12, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

braveheart Maybe I’m reading too much into it. No, I know I am. But it’s fun to think about anyway.

ha! dude, you just put johnson at about every spot in the order! that was funny to me.

i like the kotsay trade, if it goes through. he’s a very similar player to randy winn, who i targeted at the beginning of the of season as a guy i thought would be great. if his back is good, then were in good shape.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 12, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

The A’s are rebuilding and this proposed trade with the Braves is part of it. They traded Dan Haren , then Nick Swisher and now Mark Kotsay. Soon to be next is Joe Blanton and probably Eric Chavez too.

My take on this trade is this. It’s a contract dump. The A’s will save three or four million , gain a minor leaguer in return , open a spot on the 40 man and divest themselves of a player who’s career has been hobbled by an ongoing back injury.

The Braves are taking a minor risk on a player who when healthy can be a very solid defensive CF with a decent offensive game. If Kotsay is productive , it’s 3 or 4 million well spent. If not , they still have Josh Anderson , Gregor Blanco and Jordan Schafer to fall back on.

I’m sure Coco Crisp was on the Braves radar. But , the whole Johan Santana fiasco continues to hold up progress on a number of trade proposals for the Red Sox.

With Mark Kotsay being a player that Frank Wren is familiar with , he decided to forge ahead and fill another piece of the Braves 2008 roster puzzle.

The Braves have just one more need , another hard throwing lefty in the bullpen. Two names to consider : Jimmy Gobble in Kansas City and Jose Mijares in Minnesota.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this

coach,

if the braves are responsible for $ 4 million of kotsay’s contract and they give up, say devine it is a bad deal. now if they give a type B prospect i dont care what it costs them in the wallet.

as far as lefty’s in the bullpen, i think they are done. ohman and maybe ring will be on the opening day 25.

though i dont think you will see gonzo back before the all-star break.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

lew,

i know you are the defender of the faith when warding off the mets trolls, and i miss bobby valentine too. there was never anything better then beating the mets and watching bobby v’s face.

that being said, while their farm system might be bare, they still have a everyday good 8.

now if they dont get santana, or bedard, they are fried. but that infield is pretty darn good and i think church and schneider are both upgrades.

without the above said starters i think it is between us and the phillies.

oh by the way, you said the phils did not replace rowand, i think victorino is gonna play center. he will probably hit in the two hole.

they may get 90 sb’s between rollins and victorino next year.

i sure hope mccann laid off the twinkies and yohoos in the off season.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

well about the nfl playoffs all home teams win but only the pats and packers cover.

braveheart, i would love to see the giants derail tony, jessica, and jerry but it is a tall task. that week off is a big deal.

By Desperado Dave

January 12, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this

I like the idea of landing Mark Kotsay. I think he does so much for the clubhouse in addition to being a solid centerfielder. He will swing the bat well in Atlanta and be a sound stop gap to JS.

By Ray

January 12, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this

Right-handed closer Joey Devine, a former first-round draft pick of the Braves, is the A’s most likely target, according to an industry source.

For several weeks, there had been speculation about Kotsay going to the Braves, who lost center fielder Andruw Jones to free agency this winter, and Kotsay isn’t opposed to the idea.

“There’s nothing official,” Kotsay emphasized. “But there is a possibility. And I’ve always liked to play against Bobby Cox, I have a lot of respect for him as a manager. He’s got a competitive club day in and day out. If I’m going to be traded, Atlanta is a good situation.”

The A’s would be willing to pick up a portion of the $7 million Kotsay will make this year, but a Braves source said that the amount is still under discussion. There also remains a chance that Atlanta will wait to see if Kotsay, who is coming off surgery to repair a herniated disk in his lower back, is fully healthy after playing some exhibition games, and then resume talks. Medical information has not exchanged hands, according to one source. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/12/SPNHUE2E6.DTL

By Wayne in Utah (ever lurking in the blog shadows!)

January 12, 2008 3:52 AM | Link to this

After seeing a pix of Jamie Kotsay, if the Braves can get the Kotsay’s to move to the greater Atlanta area (she would be in the stands for 81 games), then I would probably trade Lillibridge AND Schafer for him. No need in the A’s sending any extra cash in the deal if they physically relo to ATL.

Sounds like a fair trade, huh?

By TennesseePaul

January 12, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this

Saw There will be blood. It has absolutely nothing on No Country for Old Men. Daniel Day was good. But he typically is. That wasn’t enough to top No Country though.

By nOLIE

January 12, 2008 4:43 AM | Link to this

Saw There will be blood. It has absolutely nothing on No Country for Old Men. Daniel Day was good. But he typically is. That wasn’t enough to top No Country thoughTP

Interesting. I thought it was a better movie than No Country, but they are both very good

By doc

January 12, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this

ok mcfann, i heard it from the horses mouth on 790 your boy mccann that he is to be at fan-fest between 10:30 and 1:30 today. he also was talking about how good marriage has been for his weight and he is in great shape having worked out with derosa and his trainer this summer. he agrees his late night jaunts for fast food has been a detriment to his game come august and september.

tell us what you see and take drool towel with you. heh heh

By nOLIE

January 12, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

I would be pretty happy with Kotsay , though like many have said I hope they don’t give up too much. A Thorson or Prado level prospect(Thorson will never amount to anything IMO), I’d prefer not Devine. Kotsay has had 5 years of pretty decent OBP but also 5 years or so of pretty poor OBP including the last two season b4 he got hurt last year so I’m not sure he’s the guy to bat second though if they get him I guess Bobby will give him a try there. If he can get on base fine, if not I hope he doesn’t keep running him out there in that spot but drops him to 8th. course we all know that Bobby is pretty stubborn that way, so….

By rich brave

January 12, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

O’B - wan:

Kudos for your unembellished article on Kotsay. It was refreshing to read a piece of sports information that wasn’t a “news-bite” from USA Today or some equally putrid article. The details like ” …on an eliptical-machine…” made me feel I really was face-to-face with some sports journalism. Kids who have never read good writers probably felt the information un-necessary, but grizzled readers of 50+ years really appreciate your style- at least, one does. Thanks.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

DAP That was funny. But that’s really how useful KJ is as a hitter. He could hit almost anywhere in the lineup and do a good job and make the hitters around him better. Thankfully, we don’t need him to bat third or fourth next season.

Ugabrave Let’s go Giants! I don’t know why the media is giving Romo such a hard time over Jessica Simpson. Sounds like the little green eyed monster is rearing its ugly head. The dude does have really cheesy taste in singers though. But at least he picks ‘em pretty. Not as pretty as Kotsay picks ‘em.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Good thing they moved FanFest indoors this year. Would’ve been a bit chilly out at the ballpark today.

I’m headed out there in an hour. If any of you see me (or recognize me), say hello….

Rich Brave: Thanks….

TennPaul, Nolie: Interesting, your takes on There Will Be Blood. I’ve heard and seen almost exclusively “A” reviews from dozens of critics, though Roger Ebert gave it a B+ in the review we ran in the AJC. I’m gonna see it in the next couple days, along with Savages and that movie with “Ringing Bell” in the long title.

Finally saw 3:10 to Yuma on DVD — tremendous movie. One of my top 10 for the year, for sure. Another great Russell Crowe part, and also great acting from Christian Bale….

Oh, and Glad to see Rolling Stone gave the new Truckers CD four stars, with a comment about how they cranked up their Skynyrd side a lot on this one. Like I said when my man Don gave me an advance copy last month, it’s one of their best 3-4 CDs, in my opinion. Up there with Decoration Day and Dirty South. It comes out next week.

By TommyP

January 12, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

DOB: First off, we all sure appreciate the baseball talk throughout the offseason. You have Barnhart over there with the college football forum taking months off until it cranks up again which sux.

You replied to someone, “Are you friggin’ kidding me?” Man…that’s my reply to a statement you made earlier.

You actually think it is remotely possible that Bobby Cox would be alright with bringing in a lefty CF (Patterson) to platoon with a rookie lefty CF???? Are you friggin’ kidding me?

Keep your splits….I mean, c’mon. That was a ridiculous statement.

As far as talk of putting Kotsay in the #2 hole, I just don’t get not putting Escobar #1 and Kelly #2 and just leaving them alone. We’re talking two guys that might very well be with us for several years getting experience in the same slot in the batting order every day, year after year.

I mean the whole “#2 hitter should be a guy that doesn’t strike out, handles the bat well, shoots it through the hole on the right side of the infield” logic only holds water at the beginning of the game if your leadoff hitter gets on. That’s it.

Do you want Kelly Johnson getting more at bats from the #2 hole or Mark Kotsay over the course of a game/season?

That should be an easy answer.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

TommyP, I like either Kotsay (if fully healthy, or course) or Kelly in the No. 2 slot, or Escobar or Kelly in the leadoff spot. But not Escobar in the No. 2 hole; don’t want him to have to think much about moving guys over, etc. Just lash balls everywhere, like he did last year most of the time he was in there.

As for the Patterson comment: That’s why I don’t often just throw stuff out there, just mixing idle thoughts and talking about creative but unlikely options — because if I do, there’s always someone playing gotcha and bringing it up for days afterward. Just a from-the-hip comment, TommyP. And no, I don’t think Bobby would do that. Certainly not Bobby, who does his platoons “by the book,” lefty-righty, regardless of stats.

You wonder why Barnhart might not want to exchange thoughts online in his offseason, after your dissection of that comment from days ago?

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

BigDawg, Braves are gonna have to give up a prospect of some kind to get Kotsay and to get the A’s to eat a big part of his contract. But it almost certainly won’t be a high-level guy, and by that I mean a top-10 type guy.

It could be Devine, though I know Braves are a little reluctant to give him up.

By Jared

January 12, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Mark Kotsay and cash for….

Good trade: Martin Prado, Scott Thorman, Eric Campbell, etc.

Neutral trade: Kala Ka’aihue

Bad trade: Jordan Schafer, Brent Lillibridge, Joey Devine or Brandon Jones

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Here’s an unsolicited e-mail that I just got from “Jeff in Sacramento” (no last name given; I wouldn’t put it here even if it were, but none was given. I’m adding the quote marks around his e-mail, which is here in full:

“I am an A’s fan that lives in the Sacramento area. Kotsay is a superior defensive outfielder who looks and plays a lot like Jim Edmonds. He’s a total pro in the clubhouse. He hits lefthanders well. Obviously, you can’t overplay him. If he wasn’t coming off an injury the Braves could never touch him for what they’ll end up paying now. It will be a good deal for Atlanta and it will be good for the A’s. The A’s lineup is too left-handed and they’re going real young anyways. Good luck.”

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

By the way, Buster’s lead to his ESPN baseball blog today offers a solid argument for those who believe adjusted OPS isn’t quite the defining statistic some make it out to be (he gives a lot of examples to support his opinion, with which I agree).

By Overlord

January 12, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

DOB, im not sure if i did understand you well. Did you say you dont like Yunel batting 2nd? If thats the case, i would have to say that as i see it, thats te best spot for yunel. He is so much like renteria, so many weapons in his bat, that is hard to defend against him and even more if your leadoff man is standing on 1st or 2nd base.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Car3boogie: I’d strongly recommend you try Daddy D’z BBQ and Blues on Memorial Drive, which is closer to downtown than Matt’s. Actually, D’z is downtown, or about a quarter mile or so from the skyscrapers. Outstanding BBQ. Get the ribs or pulled pork, and the cornbread is the finest.

By rich brave

January 12, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Dave:

Trading Devine would be a mistake in my opinion. Like you, I don’t think the Braves are seriously considering any such thing - and certainly not for a temporary fix in CF. That’s just Looney-Tunes. What I caught here in Richmond with my own eyes was excellent. If the kid ever puts that horrific start in the majors behind him and truely believes he has the stuff which prompted those early Atlanta hopes in the first place, he’ll be a major asset in the pen. Physically he’s got it all. Mental is what’s needed. Didn’t John Smoltz have a shrink observe him in the early going and work on his approach to the game? Maybe that’s what’s needed here. If already being done - then great.

By ray

January 12, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

so any updates on the trade? is it basically done, just checking out kotsay’s medical reports and how much the A’s are paying?

i have a feeling its devine or a couple lower level hitters like diorys/campbell/flowers/johnson

A’s have no use for prado/thorman, no need for more 1b/2b

DOB, devine for kotsay/4-5mill sound right? could the deal be expanded to include embree/calero?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 12, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

If the player to be traded for Kotsay isn’t on the 40 man , who will get the axe ? Then again , Joey Devine might be the man that Billy Beane is after.

I agree , adjusted OPS reads like Greek. OPS works just fine for me , it spreads the numbers out better.

Why do you guys keep bringing Scott Thorman up in the trade discussion , the A’s already have Dan Johnson and Daric Barton. It makes no sense for the A’s to acquire a third left handed hitting young 1st sacker.

By cricket

January 12, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Here’s my take on the kotsay deal. The As do want to dump salary and the braves are not absolutely desperate to get Kotsay, though they would like to have him. I don’t see As being able to push for high level prospect for 2 reasons- 1. As braves don’t absolutely have to have Kotsay, if they pull out, which other team is going to step in to do this deal? The market for Kotsay is not exactly causing the teams to engage in bidding war. 2. If they don’t trade him, they will be stuck with his 8 mil. salary this year and will get nothing in return at the end of the season. If they deal him for a mid level guy, they will save around 4 mil. and will get a decent player in return. Considering this, I think braves can get this deal done without giving up too much.

By TexasBrave

January 12, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

rich brave I agree with you that Joey has improved and proved himself since the playoff blow up.

The problem is that Bobby has used him sparingly thus putting a strain on the rest of the pen. Joey is ready, Bobby just doesn’t have the confidence in him that the rest of us and the Braves organization have.

However, with that said this could be Bobby’s last season, Joey still has options, so keep him down one more year and let the next skipper use his talents.

By JEB

January 12, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Joey Devine would DEFINETLY Not be in my trade picture!! Devine is going to be awesome! What happened to Joey Devine was a mistake by Bobby Cox! (I do have to say one of his very few BAD decisions) Joey Devine came in and pitched his first game against San Diego. He pitched great and it was 3 up 3 down in a hurry. At that point Bobby should have pulled him and let him go out with a confidence builder! Instead he sent him back out there for another inning and he started the inning off great. But, he got into some trouble, at that time Bobby should have pulled him (it would have helped him) instead he waited until the trouble turned into a grand slam and a loss. The same happened to him his second time out, and the same happened in Houston in the playoffs. His confidence was wounded by pressing him a little too far, a little too fast. He had just got out of college ball that June, and there he was pitching against major league hitters. It wounded him. Devine for Kotsay - No Way!! I agree with Cricket - not reason to HAVE to do this!

By Wayne in Utah (Devine is truly Devine!)

January 12, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I would rather start the season with someone like Anderson, Blanco or Patterson than give up Joey D.

By McFann

January 12, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

doc

I like what I read from ya. (Wish I coulda heard that…) Unfortunately, our weekend schedule’s pretty jam-packed, and we woulda had to pay for four adults and one child to attend. Sure stinks bein’ over 12 sometimes…

By mo in the boonies

January 12, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah uh…would that be stipulated in Kotsay’s contract that the missus would be in the stands for all those games??

Personally I have never seen the camera pick out any of the wives of the braves during the games or the announcers ever comment on them. And I wonder, do any ballplayers ever marry brunettes? And does that signify anything…such as dumb blondes?

Another question: do the ball players charge to sign their autographs at the fan fest like many do other times? Not that I would ever be at fan fest, too far away. But I’m thinking about all those kids wanting autographs.

DOB thanks for posting the fan’s comment from Sacramento, about kotsay, helps to hear what a team’s fan thinks about a player. And thanks for being “brave” enough to make your email available to fans.

By nOLIE

January 12, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Like Buster says…there is no perfect stat… and there never will be. And I also am aware that many of the highest rated players are in the last 15 years. Part of the reason for that is that since BillyBall caught on there is more of an emphasis on walks up and down the lineup then there used to be. I mean look at some of THE OBP of guys who used to considered good leadoff hitters like Aparicio and many others. So I agree that it is of limited use in comparing baseball eras. But if you want one very useful stat to judge hitters within the same era it is a darn good one. Plain OPS is easier for the average guy to figure and it is good too, but OPS+ does take into account park considerations and gives an easy to understand ranking against each other hitter.

By TennesseePaul

January 12, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Nolie: I wouldn’t say There will be blood is a bad movie. It’s pretty good. But compared to No Country for Old Men it isn’t all that. No Country covered its theme and topic in a much more beautiful and indepth way. There will be blood seemed to have to spell it all out one letter at a time.

DOB: I saw 3:10 to Yuma when it came out. It was real good. It’d been a while since a good Western had come out. I had watched the original before going to see the remake. I liked them both. Have you seen No Country for Old Men yet?

By War Eagle

January 12, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

I have not been a baseball fan since the strike and read just nips and bits, question, will Barry Bonds be sent to prison? His home run record down the drain?

By ElbravoX-- EbX

January 12, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

How many options does Devine has left?

By bwash21

January 12, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, the Braves better NOT trade Devine for Kotsay. I don’t understand why we are looking for LH hitting CF. Anderson, Shafer, Blanco, and even though he’s not CF, Brandon Jones are all LH. See a trend here? We don’t need another lefty!! AND, Devine is WAY TOO MUCH for Kotsay. I don’t care if they pay half of his salary. At 3 or 4 million, Kotsay is a below average part time player which is why OAK is willing to give him away and at least 4 million of his salary. I guess Kotsay is the one who would play against LHP, and bring his .260’s average with no power against them. The Braves would be MUCH better off paying 5.5 Mill for 2 yrs (total 11M) and get CoCo Crisp if they need a veteran. That would be about 1.5M more than Kotsay and give up a couple better prospects. So what. Crisp is a switch hitter with WAY better upside than the 32 yr old has been Kotsay and plays just as good of defense. Coco can play CF or LF if Diaz slumps against righties or needs a day off. Plus, he can hit in several different spots in the batting order. I’m not sure of Diaz contract status but he’s not going to be cheap for long. If Shafer oor Anderson aren’t ready, get Crisp. He has 2 yrs left on his contract. If we traded Devine and one other prospect, Crisp could easily be in a Braves uniform. Kotsay won’t play more than 80 games. He might hit .270 but I’ll predict .250 or less with less than 6 HR’s (he’s had a total of 8 the last 2 yrs). This is NOT the solution.

By bwash21

January 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Good lord, I am not a Cameron fan, but with his 25 gm suspension, he is going to make about 4.2 Million to play for the Brewers. And we are considering giving up a prospect and pay Kotsay 3 to 4 Million? So we would have Kotsay, Anderson, Shafer, Blanco, and B.Jones all as left hand hitters. Sounds great huh? Not so much.

By d-rock in Scotland

January 12, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

I saw Kotsay play for CS Fullerton back in the College World Series in Omaha, in ‘95 I think. Dude could rake it, and he played some outstanding D. We watched from the bleachers out in left field and he was a fan favorite. He was also their closer, and recorded the last five outs that year to win the title. I think he was MOP that year. Dude has a cannon for an arm, and was clutch, he’d be an outstanding addition no doubt. Headfirst slides into first—he laid it all on the field. I’d want him come post-season on my club.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Huge turnout at FanFest today. Just got back from there. I’ll give you some winter updates on Francoeur, Chuck James, etc, but I’ve got to write a couple of stories first for the paper….

bwash21, what new math are you using on Cameron to come up with $4.2 mill? Cameron signed a $7 mill contract. How does missing less than one-sixth of the 162-game season reduce his $7 mill contract by $2.8 million?

I’m doing the math now and it looks to be about $771,000 he’ll miss during the unpaid drug suspension, and he can make that much ($750,000 ) just by having 475 plate appearances, which is still doable if he plays most games after the suspension.

He gets a $1.25 million signing bonus and $5 million salary next season. There’s a $10 million option for 2009, with a $750,000 buyout.

That’s $7 mill guaranteed, and only about $770,000 for the suspension (25 games out of a 162-game season, and he’s only losing a percentage of his salary, not the bonus or performance incentives).

yes, that comes to just over $4.2 mill in salary, but you’re not accounting for $1.25 mill bonus and the buyout, plus possible incentives.

He can earn $750,000 annually in performance bonuses, the full amount for 475 plate appearances next year and for 575 in 2009.

So figure $7.75 mill even if they don’t pick up the option. Then subtract the suspension amount and you’re at about $7 mill.

(I’ve fixed this math since first putting up this comment, because I was taking into account 25-game suspension against $7 mill, when it actually only counts against $5 mill. That’s a smart agent.)

Oh, and he’s got a limited no-trade clause, so if he stinks they can’t trade him to one of the teams he doesn’t want to go to at the July deadline.

The Braves will probably pay Kotsay $2 mill, and he won’t be suspended for the first 25 games.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, yes I saw (and loved) No Country for Old Men. Terrific book and movie.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I’ve read a dozen or so reviews of the movie and saw one of our bloggers here call it perhaps the best movie he’d ever seen. So are you sure you’re talking about the same movie when you write this: “Nolie: I wouldn�t say There will be blood is a bad movie. It�s pretty good.”

I mean, come on, man. “Not a bad movie”? That’s just not what I’m hearing from the critics I respect most, like Travers in Rolling Stone. They’re all absolutely raving about it.

By I cant take it anymore

January 12, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

hey DAVID, can you help me out with something you said very early on in the blog? it was… “And Bobby Cox does not seem to care that much about it. Unless the hitter in question is Kelly Johnson. He fails to drop a bunt and is put into a platoon and yanked out of the leadoff spot.”

Do you think that is why he was pulled or did i miss something from bobby? i’m a big kelly fan and my friends are always down on him for some reason.

i think kotsay in a sunday red will be great. thanks for your help!

By Jared

January 12, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

And Bobby Cox does not seem to care that much about it. Unless the hitter in question is Kelly Johnson. He fails to drop a bunt and is put into a platoon and yanked out of the leadoff spot.

I was thinking I was the only one who caught that. In a game in last June last year against the Tigers at Turner Field, Kelly Johnson failed to lay down a bunt. Cox was seen screaming at him and grabbing him when he got back to the dugout. Soon after, I think even the next day Johnson lost the leadoff spot to Harris and Cox started that absurd second base platoon with Johnson and Escobar.

Bobby’s reasoning? “I can’t keep Yunel out of the line-up…just can’t.” This was when Escobar had a .264 batting average, a .312 OBP and a .673 OPS. “Just can’t” keep him out, especially with Johnson had a .274 batting average, a .377 OBP and a .832 OPS. How many chances did Cox in the past (see: Lockhart, Keith) give players preforming much, much worse? And yet he seemingly had a really itchy trigger finger on Kelly Johnson.

Better watch out or we’ll see a Johnson-Prado or Johnson-Infante platoon next season.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

hey DAVID, can you help me out with something you said very early on in the blog? it was… “And Bobby Cox does not seem to care that much about it. Unless the hitter in question is Kelly Johnson. He fails to drop a bunt and is put into a platoon and yanked out of the leadoff spot.” Do you think that is why he was pulled or did i miss something from bobby? i’m a big kelly fan and my friends are always down on him for some reason.

That wasn’t DOB. That was dopey ole me who said that. YOu can’t take anything I say too seriously. DOB wouldn’t write anything that simple-minded.

It only seemed that Cox removed KJ from leadoff and put him into a platoon because Cox was livid about KJ failing to drop a bunt.

But Cox really took him out of leadoff and put him into a platoon because he was wilting at that point of the season, seemed tired and had been in a two month slump, Yunel was hot and obviously ready to play, Cox had to find somewhere to put Yunel, Willie Harris was scorching, the lineup was having trouble scoring during that stretch of the season so Cox wanted to shake things up, and probably many other reasons.

But when I’m overly dramatic and say he was yanked out of the leadoff spot and put into a platoon, it sounds better right?

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Who gives a crap about baseball right now when you have snow on the frozen tundra?

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Before I forget, you guys would’ve fallen on the floor if you could have been there for this moment today. (I’m sure you’ll hear about it as the story makes the rounds). This little kid said in the microphone, over the P.A. system during a Chipper Q&A today: “The Mets suck (expletive)”

Four words. Jaws on the floor, including Chipper’s.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

This little kid said in the microphone, over the P.A. system during a Chipper Q&A today: “The Mets suck (expletive)”

Very good to hear. Despite what ESPN says about Braves fans, you know the franchise’s fan base is growing stronger when you get the kids talking that way. Raise ‘em loving the Braves, and despising the Mets.

Lew is gonna cry tears of joy when he hears about that kid. Heck, he might be one of Lew’s illegitimate children with Met hatred like that.

Alright, back to the game. It doesn’t get any better than snow on the frozen tundra. That Grant kid is really good.

By McFann

January 12, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

This is long delayed, but in regards to Random’s 1:00 post yesterday:

Please see the Braves Spring Training game from March 19. Brian hit a triple in that game.

By Lew

January 12, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

DOB-On the loss of revenue by Cameron-XM Home Plate was announcing those figures (right or wrong) earlier this afternoon. They definitely mentioned the $4.2 mil figure as what he would make after the deduction for the suspension. Wouldn’t be the first time they said something erroneously, but that IS what they reported.

ON the young fan at FanFest-somewhat crude, especially for a young kid, but I understand his sentiments perfectly, though I wouldn’t have phrased it quite that euphemistically.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

braveheart,

nothing better then watching football in the snow.

now of course that means watching the worst trade in the history of atlanta sports.farve is absolutely amazing. thanks a lot jerry glanville. last i heard chris miller needed a GPS to find his way home from the local grocery store.

no way rich mcckay should still have any kind of job with the falcons.

the falcons kicker situation should of been enough to get him run. throw on top lousy drafts, terrible FA signings and letting go patrick kerney.

every time we moan or groan about the braves think about how bleak the falcons situation is.

By McFann

January 12, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

That’s pretty darn funny about that kid. If the Mets ever hold a FanFest, he should be sent to say that there.

: )

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Well, XM home plate has it wrong. They’re merely taking the $5.2 mill salary next year and subtracting $771,000, not taking into account either his signing bonus or the $750,000 buyout of his 2009 option. or the potential $750,000 bonus for 475 PAs. (all but the latter are guaranteed)

The signing bonus and buyout is same as salary. It’s not funny money, folks.

And now that you mention it, actually he won’t even miss as much as I originally put down, which was just over $1 mill. Because I was figuring in 25-game suspension as about one-sixth of $7 mill, when in actuality the signing bonus and buyout aren’t affected, only salary is.

That’s probably why his agent made them do it that way, with a signing bonus despite such a short-term deal, so he doesn’t lose as much as he would if it was all straight salary.

In actually, the $750,000 buyout of his 2009 option will surpass the amount he loses in suspension (about $771,000).

In other words, he’s still guaranteed just over $6.25 mill for playing 137 games maximum, even if the Brewers don’t pick up his 2009 option. And if he gets 475 PAs next season, he’s guaranteed just over $7 mill.

By Interested Observer

January 12, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

ESPN is reporting the Kotsay-Devine deal is all but done. Kotsay is flying to Atlanta tomorrow for a physical. The Commissioner must also approve the money transfer. Oakland will reportedly pay $5.3 million of Kotsay’s $7.3 million salary.

By Robert

January 12, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Congrats to Goose Gossage - a decent HOF candidate worthy of induction based on his pioneering role as far as the modern closer goes

Looks like the Hall will cheapen itself by inducting Jim Rice soon (he got to the 70 percent mark, and noone who has gotten to 70 percent has failed to get in)

Rice doesnt deserve induction. He was great for a few years. The HOF is about sustained greatness, not fleeting greatness, or sustained near-greatness. It’s the HOF, not an All-Star team

That said, anyone who wouldnt vote for Roger Clemens (or Barry Bonds) has his or her head further up their patoot than even Donk could manage

BRAVO! to Clemens for what he said about the HOF voters. Roger Clemens doesnt need the HOF to validate his accomplishments. The HOF needs Clemens if it is to be a complete momunment to baseball greatness.

The crew that would consider not voting for Clemens and Bonds are probably the same idiots that plan on enshrining Bobby Cox for no discernable reason

DOB and his idiot crew will turn the HOF into a joke if they have their way

Go ahead and induct Pete Rose while y’all are at it

Four weeks and change until Donk reports to Disney and the Braves are eliminated from World Series contention

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

nothing better then watching football in the snow.

Except for playing football in the snow. When I was growing up, we had about 18 inches of snow one year, and my brother and I played tackle basketball for hours. That was awesome.

I love this Subway commercial where the ref says don’t worry, I am gonna penalize the other team for no good reason in the second half to make up for the bad call I just made.

every time we moan or groan about the braves think about how bleak the falcons situation is.

ugabrave you think about how bleak the falcons situation is, i think about how Blank the Falcons situation is.

but i’m with ya on mckay. reeves handed him a legit super bowl contender and he ran it into the ground …. with lots of help from blank and vick and mora and petrino of course.

why would you overspend on a good player like patrick kerney when you can overspend on guys like brooking, price, a fullback you never use, etc.?

By Lew

January 12, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

DOB-I didn’t do the math while I was driving around, but now that you mention it, it does seem to be off by a good bit.

Braveheart-Sorry, but if I had illegitimate children running around, I’m certain I would have heard about it by now-they would have been well into their thirties, had any existed. If that had been my kid, I would have probably given him hell for pulling that stunt, but it doesn’t necessarily mean his sentiments were wrong.

By Calvin

January 12, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Here is the link to the Kotsay trade.

By Edgar

January 12, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

It’s a DONE deal, folks…Kotsay in Atlanta, he better play 100 + games and have a .280 AVG, because Devine is worth that.

By mo in the boonies

January 12, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Braveheart You obviously don’t have any kids. I bet that kid’s parents are still red in the face, although he probably heard the comment at home.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

It’s all but a done deal, I’m told. Kots for Devine, plus Braves only have to pay about $2-3 mill of his 2008 salary. A’s covering rest, because they’re getting the level of prospect they wanted, a little higher level than Braves first offered.

I’m waiting for a callback from Kots, hopefully. But he’s gotta come to Atlanta Sunday or Monday and pass a physical before it’s official.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

if I had illegitimate children running around, I’m certain I would have heard about it by now-they would have been well into their thirties, had any existed.

Lew, sorry to get all Maury Povich on ya but……… I’m that illegitimate child.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

just sent a great potential arm for a broken down cf with a hot wife.

this is a headscratcher, devine looked really good in his last few outings.

this trade only makes sense if kotsay has a monster year. smells like rico bronga to me.

By McFann

January 12, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

I kinda have to agree with Lew about that kid. Not a very nice thing to say in public. Not that I know what the really nasty thing he said was, but heck I got mad enough at my cousin for saying that the Braves [stunk], so I can’t condone what he just. I was only making a joke back there.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

You obviously don’t have any kids. I bet that kid’s parents are still red in the face, although he probably heard the comment at home.

chill out Mo. Yeah, I’m sure the parents are red faced and will give the kid hell about it tonight and for the next few months but ya know what? Starting about 10 years from now, that kid and his entire family will tell the story about how that kid told Chipper Jones that the Mets suck you know what.

There are many things my brother, sisters, and I did as kids that caused us to catch whuppings and be grounded for months that my parents love to laughingly talk about at Thanksgiving dinner these days. It always makes me think why the hell did you guys act like the end of the world was coming back then if you are just gonna laugh about it 20 years later?

By Lew

January 12, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-Pops may not take kindly to that revelation. What did your mother look like 35 years ago? There’s a vague possibility I might remember her from what I thought was an hallucination.

By N8-Lion

January 12, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Check out the picture of Fehr and Selig on the si.com baseball main page.

2 peas in a pod

What a couple of dolts.

btw: I’m officially naming the remaining days of January as “80’s hair band moniker” month.

Every time I post, I intend on changing my moniker to include a different 80’s hair band name. Hopefully each one, more ridiculous than the last.

By N8-n-Roses

January 12, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

If forgot to add that the look on Selig’s face pretty much says it all about his tenure as Commissioner, doesn’t it?

By 22oz

January 12, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Fanfest was a complete sham auntograph wise. They’re gonna show you pictures of chipper signing, and kids with autographs. I talked to people who stood in line for 6 hours, and got charlie liebrandt and brian snitker. You have no idea who you’re getting. They call it a “treasure hunt”, its a load of crap. Way better (autograph wise) at Turner field. I would have gladly froze if i knew who i was getting. Not telling people who is signing and only having 2 stations was a big mistake.

By Jared

January 12, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

ESPN says it’s Joey Devine for Mark Kotsay and 5.325 million cash to cover Kotsay’s 2008 salary.

I abhor this trade.

By uga-brave

January 12, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

braveheart and lew are having a STAR WARS moment.

By Mac

January 12, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

What an awful trade. I’m disgusted.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

I’m told Kotsay won’t be in for physical until Monday, no announcement until monday or Tuesday….

22oz, I didn’t think that “treasure hunt” autograph thing was gonna please too many folks in those loooong lines. I know I’d have been upset if I waited an hour to get Francoueur’s autograph and then someone else was signing when I finally got to the front of the line.

I didn’t hear any grumbling out there, but I thought there would be after the fact. Damn, those were long lines.

By rainman

January 12, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

What a terrible trade. A guy who could be a good to very good 6 or 7th inning guy for a bum who will only play half a year and if he does play all year he tops out as a 270 hitter with 12 hr and maybe 8 steals. We gave away a good young pitcher and we were the only bidders from what I can tell. To me this is a joke.

By N8 James Dio

January 12, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

As far as the Kotsay trade?

Well, I think it speaks volumes about many players.

1) It says that as of right now, Wren and Bobby aren’t confident that Schafer is ready for the job (offensively), or that they felt he was ready, but would benefit from some more time in the minors. I’m sure it won’t hurt his growth.

2) They believe that Mark Kotsay (barring he fails his physical), is gonna be healthy enough and good enough to have an impacts. I too agree with that.

3) That Joey Devine isn’t gonna amount to much. They have never really given up anybody that they though was worth a damn (long term), in these “quick fix/stop-gap” trades. If they were trading for a CF of the future, then JS was willing to give up more. Maybe Wren doesn’t operate that way, but I’m sure JS still had input on this.

Take Tex for example. They gave up some good prospects, (damn good), to get him. But for one, they thought (and still do), that they could get Tex signed long-term, and two, that was a deadline deal trying to make THE ONLY MOVE POSSIBLE to make a serious playoff push. Rarely do the Braves give up MORE in a trade, during the off-season. I also believe, that when they gave up Wainwright, they thought JD Drew would stick around long-term.

Add to that, even though Devine was VERY impressive at Richmond last year, Bobby barely gave the kid a cup of coffee in his call-up at the end of the year.

I truly believe that Devine was NEVER gonna be part of the bullpen this year, from the get go they wanted to minimize his efforts in September, hope he did well, and trade him. The old “sell high” theory.

Of course, I’m not sure at this point if Kotsay is worth a 1st round pick (even though the baseball draft is much more hit or miss than the NFL).

But bottom line, IMO: This trade will help us NOW as long as Kotsay stays healthy, or we may regret it a couple of years down the road, if Devine is among the league leaders in Saves.

Of course, BOTH of the above may come true. Similar to Wainwright/JD Drew.

JD definitely helped us win a division title that year, but it sure would be nice to have Wainwright.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

braveheart and lew are having a STAR WARS moment.

ugabrave Should I pull a really horrendous acting job like Mark Hamill and start screaming No! No! No! like a whiny little girl when Lew says I am your father?

By N8 White

January 12, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

I forgot to add a “number” to my list of why this trade went down (or is gonna go down).

4) The Braves OBVIOUSLY feel that they have plenty of young bullpen arms in the system to turn to. Among them…Blaine Boyer, if he is healthy.

Face it people. Devine was a PANIC draft pick a couple of years ago, because we had NOBODY to bring up and use for that stretch run. No other reason to draft a kid who’s already worked his azz off in the college season and college WS, and then fast track him, call him up, let him get his azz handed to him in his first two appearances, put him on the post-season roster, and then finally….let him be the kid on the mound in the 18th inning of a deciding game of the playoff series.

He might be missed, but I’m sure there’s “plenty more” where that came from.

By Braveheart

January 12, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

I don’t like giving up Devine for Kotsay at all BUT it was most likely never gonna happen here for Devine. He’s a major talent and I wish he had more trade value but he really doesn’t. I’m just guessing here but I think other teams think the Braves viewed him as a major talent but damaged goods. Hard to get value for him in a trade when his manager clearly doesn’t trust him.

But couldn’t they have used Devine to get Dejesus or Coco Crisp instead?

By ncscoots

January 12, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

…makes me think why the hell did you guys act like the end of the world was coming back then if you are just gonna laugh about it 20 years later?

Man, I can answer that, LOL. Because you learned the lesson well enough then to not keep doing that stupid stuff as an adult. :-)

As a teenager, I once had a fairly serious failure of character (nothing criminal, but bad enough). In one of the many (and I mean many) conversations about it with my father, I told him how sorry I was to have disappointed him. His reply was, “Don’t worry about me. You’ll know you’re a man when the person you most hate disappointing is you.”

Parents are smart.

By Romal Gal

January 12, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, let’s just say it was about to get ugly out there. We waited in line for 4 hours and when we were about 4 rows back they brought out Brian Hunter. I swear there was about to be a riot. People were going crazy and cursing. Luckily he left right before I got there and I got Chipper’s autograph. It made that four hour wait worth it…sort of.

I got a really good picture of Chipper, too BTW.

By N8ryche

January 12, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Well said. Totally agree with the part about it being hard to get “value” for him, when he clearly wasn’t trusted in tough situations when he was called up.

Not that Kotsay isn’t valuable (if healthy).

By Make it Better

January 12, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

THIS SEEMS LIKE A DESPARATE MOVE; IT IS EMBARRASING TO GIVE UP ON A #1 PICK SOOOO SOOOOOON. OBVIOUSLY HE WASN’T A WREN PLAYER. OUCH. KOTSAY WITH A BACK INJURY IS NOT A SURE THING INSPITE OF HIS HISTORICAL ABOVE AVERAGE OFFENSE AND GOOD DEFENSE.

By mo in the boonies

January 12, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

N8 That picture of Selig and Fehr looks like dumb and dumber.

By Stinky

January 12, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

He’s gonna be impossible to be around, now.

By TommyP

January 12, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

You wonder why Barnhart might not want to exchange thoughts online in his offseason, after your dissection of that comment from days ago?

Geez, DOB. Gimme a break. So I gave you the same response you gave another reader (give me a friggin’ break) but you get defensive? Chill out, man.

First off, I was complimenting you in that Barnhart paragraph. (way to receive that compliment well…OKAYYYY)

Second of all, so since you made that comment “days ago” it all of a sudden becomes null and void? Some of us have what we call “LIVES” and don’t live on here on a daily basis. I understand this is what you do for a living but this was the first I read of your comments. You posted a blog for conversation and debate…that’s what I’m doing. I mean, didn’t you just say you normally don’t throw stuff out there like that? I agree. It was something I’d never expect to read from you. (I’d expect you to rip someone a new one for suggesting it, though)

And for the record, Barnhart said he considers the recruiting season a joke and that’s why he won’t cover it. He’s gotten a bit high and mighty since those ESPN gigs but I can understand. Guess if college coaches followed that logic, though, they’d have career coaching records like Ted Roof.

Loosen up, DOB. It’s the weekend.

By Sam

January 12, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Agreed RJ Dio. It also speaks to what the Braves think about this year and next. The story line from here out should be they are going to do any and everything to win this year because they obviously don’t expect to in 2009 and didn’t expect to in 2008 without doing moves like this.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 12, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Rotoworld.com has reported that the Braves are on the hook for 2 million of Mark Kotsay’s contract. The other six million will be payed by the A’s. No word as to his limited no trade clause. With just one season left on his contract , it’s probably a non-issue.

With Joey Devine being a former 1st round pick , it’s a bit much for a guy who is coming off back surgery and the majority of the 2007 season lost to recovering from it.

Hopefully Kotsay stays healthy and justifies the risk the Braves have taken.

By TheBigDawg

January 12, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Devine seems like a stiff price for one year of a guy with a serious injury concern. I know Kotsay could turn out to be huge, it just seems like a risky move with little chance of getting a good return on your #1 pick from just 3 years ago. A WS trip will be sufficient.

By Stinky

January 12, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

From a fan’s perspective, it’s disappointing that the Braves gave up on Devine. From Devine’s pov, though, this is the best thing that could happen to him. Nobody mangles relievers more than Bobby Cox.

By Jennifer

January 12, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Bad move according to me. Giving away a first round pick like that for a guy like Kotsay who is only going to stay only for a year at most. There is only one that thing that reminds me of this trade. Remember Adam Wainright in the J.D. Drew trade not too long ago????

By atlfan

January 12, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Bad move according to me. Giving away a first round pick like that for a guy like Kotsay who is only going to stay only for a year at most. There is only one that thing that reminds me of this trade. Remember Adam Wainright in the J.D. Drew trade not too long ago????

By KJ

January 12, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, do we have anyone in the minors as equally talented as Devine. I hate this trade. I can’t believe we are giving up a great relief pitcher when we have the like of Yates in the pen. I know Yates wouldn’t get this trade, but I think we gave up too much, and it will hurt us in the long run. Our pen has always been a liablility, and I think without Devine and relying on yates and boyer it will continue to be so.

By atlfan

January 12, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Bad move according to me. Giving away a first round pick like that for a guy like Kotsay who is only going to stay only for a year at most. There is only one that thing that reminds me of this trade. Remember Adam Wainright in the J.D. Drew trade not too long ago????

By Robert

January 12, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

So, what’s Donk’s nickname for Kotsay goona be?

Kotsey?

By TURTSNAP

January 12, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Went to Fan Fest today, a MONUMENTAL waste of time and money. Lines were unbelievable!! Communication was terrible. I was standing in line with my 7 year old son to hit wiffle balls in the Field of Dreams. We were in line 30 minutes and were still atleast an hour away from the front, when we learned that you had to have a stamp in order to participate. NOWHERE, were we told or informed of this when walking through the doors. You would think that was a valuable piece of information. Oh well, my son had more fun playing on the walls outside of the World Congress Center than he did inside, where we paid $39 for three of us to get in. NEVER AGAIN!!

But, GO BRAVES!!!!! I do like the trade Kotsay for Devine. I think it gives us a good insurance buffer and doesn’t force us to put the young kid in too early. I said it before, I’ll say it again, we had a pretty good season last year with Andruw struggling offensively like he did, any offense from CF this year will be an upgrade. And Joey needs a fresh start somewhere else, Oakland will give him the chance to make the team and straighten his game out.

By chris from md

January 12, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Could you tell me one more time which Braves are out of optios? I think it’s Yates, Ring, Boyer, and Bennett. Am I correct?

Thanks,

Chris from MD

By McFann

January 12, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Hey, TommyP, don’t let the ol’ Master of the Blog snappin’ at ya get you down. He’s let me have it a few times. (Like the time I said, “There’s no ‘I’ in ‘Team’, and he came back and said, “But there are three in ‘Irritating.’”) Only thing it will cost you when you’re on his “bad side” is some answers to your questions. But hey, no hard feelings, DOB! : )

Oh, Roman Gal, I’ve been waiting for you. How’d ya make out on that assignment? Ever get it finished? Oh, but don’t get all ticked off and call me impatient, I was just curious. And BTW, if you weren’t using Gameday, how did you arrive at your conclusion that McCann cost Francoeur 4 RBIs April-May? Again, just curious, but I really want to know.

By McFann

January 12, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Oh no! It’s Robert. Yo, dude, you do know that you and Cox have the same first name, true?

Dang, I wish it would have been Yates-for-Kotsey. That would have made me happy.

One other thing to TommyP:

I really enjoyed the part of your post where you typed, “Some of us have what we call ‘LIVES’ and don’t live on here on a daily basis.” That was great, man!!

By N8ster Pussycat

January 12, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

atlfan

You are correct, in that this trade resembles the trade for JD Drew.

But forget you not that the trade for Drew allowed us to make the post-season again. NO CHANCE IN HELL we make the playoffs that year, without JD Drew.

Now, I too used get upset at trading highly touted prospects for “rentals”. Hell, if Tex walks at the end of this year, I’m still not sold on that trade last year being “worth it”. Having said that, I’m pretty positive that barring injury, Tex will be a Top 5 MVP candidate this season.

But here’s the thing. I am SO confident in our ability to draft, sign and develop young talent, that I’ve recently changed my tune. Because MOST of the prospects (with the exception of Wainwright), usually don’t amount to anything for the teams we trade them to.

So I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that Devine literally does nothing in his big-league career.

Worst case scenario, our organization is TOP NOTCH when it comes to over-hyping their prospects, which ups their trade value, and allows us to fleece other teams.

Or is there somebody out their that STILL thinks that Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer, and fan favorite Charles Thomas, was too much to give up for Hudson (regardless of what you think of Hudson’s performance as a Brave)???

This will be another trade, that at the end of the year, people around baseball will be scratching their head, asking themselves WHO did the Braves give up for Kotsay?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 12, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Chris , you are correct.

By Stinky

January 12, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Never trust Coach when it comes to options.

By N8 Riot

January 12, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Coach

I absolutely LOVE IT, when you comment on questions about “options”.

Makes me smile. :-)

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Don’t know why every place has Kotsay’s salary at $8 mill in 2008, which is sure what I thought it was. But I was told tonight it was $7.35 mill, and yes, Oakland is paying all but about $2 mill of that.

Folks, if Kotsay’s back is fixed from the surgery, if he has a bounceback year (he’s only 32) in his free-agent walk year, this will be a very good trade for the Braves. You just don’t get what he brings to the table for $2 mill, not from a veteran who brings so much leadership as well.

But of course, if his back’s still screwed up and he has a year like last year, then they will have given away Devine.

Personally, I think it’s well worth the risk, only because I know what kind of player and teammate Kotsay is. Devine’s still a question mark until he does it in the majors for a season. And he’s 24, not 21.

I like Joey a lot, but remember he’s also had a back condition (once thought to be career-threatening, but since brought under control through exercise regimen) and bouts of wildness.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 12, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Well Braves fans… the Braves site at MLB.com has stated that B-Mac is strapping on the “leotard” to prepare for the upcoming season. “I just can’t imagine Brian McCann in a yoga outfit,” McCann’s good friend, Jeff Francoeur, playfully said. “Sleeping in tights for an hour doesn’t count as yoga.” —mental picture of McCann in tights here—-

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

KJ, in answer to your question: Devine’s not rated among Braves’ top 10 prospects. Five pitchers are, including a couple who might eventually be relievers (most are used as starters when they’re young; Devine was not because he had a full college career and came to the Braves as a reliever, with stuff suited to stay in that role).

Braves have a lefty, Jeff Locke, who’s only 20 and had 74 strikeoutts, eight walks and a .213 opponents’ average in 61 innings in rookie ball last season, with a 7-1 record and 2.66 ERA in 13 games (11 starts).

Lefty Cole Rohrbaugh is 20 and had a 96 strikeouts with 20 walks in just 61 innings last season between Rome and Danville, with 1.08 ERA in rookie ball and 1.29 at Rome.

Righty Tommy Hanson had 154 strikeouts with 58 walks in 133 innings (26 games, 25 starts) last season at Rome and high-A Myrtle.

There are others, but those are just guys in the top 10 prospects, along with Jurrjens and Reyes, who you know about.

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

TommyP, it’s the weekend? Oh. Nevermind then.

By JR BoB Dobbs

January 12, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

From Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“Devine was once thought of as the closer of the future in Atlanta, and even though he filled that role for Richmond in the R-Braves’ Governors Cup championship, he’s probably more of a situational guy in the seventh or eighth inning. He doesn’t retire left-handed hitters with enough consistency right now. He did, however, come on strong this past season after returning to his college mechanics, so maybe there is a big role for him in the future. But right now, I see him as a sinkerslider guy versus right-handed batters.”

By JR Bob Dobbs

January 12, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

From Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“Devine was once thought of as the closer of the future in Atlanta, and even though he filled that role for Richmond in the R-Braves’ Governors Cup championship, he’s probably more of a situational guy in the seventh or eighth inning. He doesn’t retire left-handed hitters with enough consistency right now. He did, however, come on strong this past season after returning to his college mechanics, so maybe there is a big role for him in the future. But right now, I see him as a sinkerslider guy versus right-handed batters.”

By Alex Fletcher

January 12, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

I never thought that I could be so satisfied. Every time that I look in your angel eyes. A shock inside me that words just can’t describe… And there’s no explaining. There’s something in the way you move, I can’t deny. Every word from your lips is a lullaby. A twist of fate makes life worth while. You are gold and silver.

I said I wasn’t gonna lose my head, but then… POP! Goes my heart. I wasn’t gonna fall in love again, but then… POP! Goes my heart. And I just can’t let you go,I can’t lose this feeling.

These precious moments, we have are so few… Lets go far away, where there’s nothing to do but play. You show to me that my destiny’s with you…And there’s no explaining. u r gold and silver.

I said I wasn’t gonna lose my head, but then… POP! Goes my heart. I wasn’t gonna fall in love again, but then… POP! Goes my heart. And I just can’t let you go…

By Robert

January 12, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

“Oh no! It’s Robert. Yo, dude, you do know that you and Cox have the same first name, true?”

Yes, I’m well aware of that. And, being from Oklahoma, I am also well aware that Donk hails from this great state

Funny how NOONE here has EVER mentioned that as a point of pride

The big difference between myself and Bobby Cox is that MY brain functions properly and doesnt lose ballgames for the Braves

By Romal Gal

January 12, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

McFann, I’m not ticked. It takes more than a blog for me to get upset. Anyways, I looked at the box scores and the play by play section on Yahoo. And no, I haven’t finished it. Haven’t even thought about it to be honest. Anyways, right now I’m still recovering from standing in line all day.
Is it just me or when you’re just standing around for hours it seems harsher on the body than when you are able to walk around and move about?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

January 12, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Hey Stinky , want to put money on it ? I’ll be more than happy to take your cash.

Of course , had I disagreed with Chris , you would have said the same damn thing. Which exposes you as a complete MORON.

All in all , Frank Wren is way ahead so far.

We have traded Edgar Renteria , Jose Ascanio and Joey Devine.

While acquiring Will Ohman , Jair Jurrjens , Omar Infante , Gorkys Hernandez and Mark Kotsay.

Looking at the BIG PICTURE , Frank Wren and the Braves have gained five players while trading three. Four of these players are likely to help immediately. While Renteria would have been the only probable contributer.

Frank Wren , great job so far !

By TommyP

January 12, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

I sure would’ve loved for the Braves to have seen Kotsay in spring training before making this deal.

With the deal, though, Shafer better not be a bust. All of this planning for his arrival next year….

By I cant take it anymore

January 12, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

sorry david! thanks for the clear up, braveheart. your post was right next to dave and i thought it was his. i feel like a clown. thanks to jared, too. i really hope bobby isnt down on kelly j (does anybody know?). i dont know why i missed bobby chewing him out. how about kotsay? i mean, wasnt devine somewhat of a head case? it sure is hard to forget those grandslams. anyway, im am so jacked up about this season. just cant wait. anybody feel me?

By Evil Genius

January 12, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is the greatest manager in the history of the Braves and will be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. He is a Winner , all the way.

This robert fella has a corn cob up his butt and rocks between his ears.

By BravesWeenFan

January 12, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

a lovely Kotsay comercial

By Steve in OH

January 12, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Coach, don’t forget that Wren’s cutting a little dead weight from the bench, like Woodward and Orr.

By Steve McP

January 12, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

No problem with Devine going if Kotsay stays fit, presumably the deal is still subject to a medical, but if he gets through and stays fit then having a player like him for 2 million for the year looks great value - not least because he appears to have a good reputation as a team guy and can surely bring the youngsters on.

The other huge benefit of Kotsay is that it is a one year deal, so no salary tied up in 2009 when we must try to find a way to sign Tex.

By JR Bob Dobbs

January 12, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

From Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“Devine was once thought of as the closer of the future in Atlanta, and even though he filled that role for Richmond in the R-Braves’ Governors Cup championship, he’s probably more of a situational guy in the seventh or eighth inning. He doesn’t retire left-handed hitters with enough consistency right now. He did, however, come on strong this past season after returning to his college mechanics, so maybe there is a big role for him in the future. But right now, I see him as a sinkerslider guy versus right-handed batters.”

By JR Bob Dobbs

January 12, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

From Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“Devine was once thought of as the closer of the future in Atlanta, and even though he filled that role for Richmond in the R-Braves’ Governors Cup championship, he’s probably more of a situational guy in the seventh or eighth inning. He doesn’t retire left-handed hitters with enough consistency right now. He did, however, come on strong this past season after returning to his college mechanics, so maybe there is a big role for him in the future. But right now, I see him as a sinkerslider guy versus right-handed batters.”

By N8 Riot

January 12, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

BravesWeenFan

That Kotsay/A’s commercial is fricking hilarious.

By N8sted Sister

January 12, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Fro Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“JR Bob Dobbs is a moron.”

By blazerpunter

January 12, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

[http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/looper/90039]

I know several people have mentioned this, but I found a few more pictures of Mrs. Kotsay. In her photos she is always the one on the left if there are multiple people in the pic.

I am excited about the trade. I think everyone is underestimating the veteran leadership he can provide for the outfield. Everyone forgets the the “veteran” of the Braves outfield group is entering his 3rd full season with the Braves. Kotsay is going to be a great clubhouse guy and leader for the 2006 outfield group!! Throw in some good defense and a few hits here and there and I think it is defintely worth the $2 million and a 1st round pick who badly needed a fresh start!!

GO BRAVES…………..

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention this, for Robert and others:

An old guy stepped to the mic during a Q&A with Wren today and asked him if the Braves had signed Bobby Cox to a 20-year contract yet. A few hundred people sitting in that area for the session applauded when he asked that question.

After the applause, Wren smiled answered: “Bobby’s going to do this as long as he wants to do it.”

By the way, for those wondering: Cox wasn’t at FanFest because he’s being honored this weekend Syracuse, N.Y., where he both played and managed while in the Yankees organization.

By N8erella

January 12, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

DOB

While “neat” and heartwarming that the fans cheered about Bobby’s 20 year contract, keep in mind…..

Many millions of people used to cheer for Whitesnake, too.

:-)

By David O'Brien

January 12, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Somone asked: Pitchers Royce Ring, Blaine Boyer and Jeff Bennett, along with Scott Thorman, Brayan Pena, and Willie Aybar, are among those out of options.

By TheBigDawg

January 12, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

DOB and others - Jurrjens or Reyes: Who’s going to be the better of the two? I’m leaning towards Jurrjens.

By JR Bob Dobbs

January 12, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

From Bill Ballew, Baseball America’s Braves correspondent, during an 11/5/07 BA Braves chat when asked about Joey Devine:

“Devine was once thought of as the closer of the future in Atlanta, and even though he filled that role for Richmond in the R-Braves’ Governors Cup championship, he’s probably more of a situational guy in the seventh or eighth inning. He doesn’t retire left-handed hitters with enough consistency right now. He did, however, come on strong this past season after returning to his college mechanics, so maybe there is a big role for him in the future. But right now, I see him as a sinkerslider guy versus right-handed batters.”

By Thrillhouse44

January 12, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Good move! The Braves got another classy veteran who is entering a contract year. He’ll be ready to prove himself and it sounds like he wants to play for Bobby. I think he’ll fit in nicely in the A, and he’s coming at a bargain price. It’s a good night to be a Braves’ fan, folks. I think I’ll have a celebratory beer.

By JR Bob Dobbs

January 12, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

BTW, I’m not sure why my post of 8:43 pm keeps getting reposted. However, if AJC/DOB could please remove the extra posts, that would be much appreciated by me and no doubt the other Braves Blog readers that keep seeing the same post repeated…

By JT

January 12, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

When is the Kotsay announcement schedulued for????

By JT

January 12, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

When is the Kotsay trade announcement schedulued for????

By rich brave

January 12, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

I have a lot of respect for the Braves ability to evaluate talent, but this Kotsay/Devine trade is fraught with uncertainty - much more so than usual. When making a trade, I thought the upside and long-term aspects were to be considered foremost. It appears the Bravos come up short on BOTH counts. Apparantly, securing a known quantity on the cheap is most paramount here. I can’t see Kotsay staying if he has a gangbusters year and resurrects his career in Atlanta, even if he’s needed beyond ‘08 for any reason. And I saw genuine improvement in Richmond by Joey D. even though the “Diamond” is a very forgiving ballpark for pitchers. But unless this deal falls throught in the 11th hour (failing a physical), Braves fans will have to wait and see who got the better of whom in this trade. This just might be an equalizer: Hudson for C. Thomas et.al. vs. Kotsay for Devine. Where’s the Bromo? My stomach’s queasy.

By Stuart

January 12, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

I like the trade. Joey Devine is a younger Chris Retisma. Like Retisma, Devine just does not have enough command of the fastball to make it. Until he can consistently throw it for strikes, he is going to have trouble sticking. I saw him struggle with it in AA when he was closing last year, and in the majors. He has talent like crazy, but no command of the ol number 1. I know it is a one year ‘rental’, but one this team had to have. If James comes around and Glav and Smoltz dont get old quick, this team can be really good. They are still short a fireballer in the rotation, but they will be better this year.

By Steve McP

January 12, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Why so queasy Rich Brave? Braves are loaded with pitching at the moment both young and old. No room for everyone and using one of your lesser guys to fix a one year need seems sensible. The Braves do not intend to keep Kotsay on 2009 and are making this decision solely for 2008 needs, with the pitching at the age it is Wren is trying to make a run in 2008 and accepts that 2009 could be a very different team, but to me the mix of young and old looks good for this year.

By rich brave

January 12, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

Steve:

I’m a fatalist by nature dude. Can’t help myself.

By Greg in TN

January 13, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Happy late night denizens…

Day one of the Planet Braves conference is in the books. The GWCC was packed and I caught the Q&As with Chipper, Jurrjens and Clint Sammons.

DOB, I didn’t catch exactly what the kid said, but I did see the response that Chipper and Pete Van Wieren had.

I think the organization did the right thing in moving Fan Fest from the Ted, however I also think everyone would be better off with published autograph times so everyone knows who’ll be sitting at the end of the lines.

I capped off the night by taking in the shootout victory by the Thrashers over Sidney Crosby and the Pens at Philips. First chance at seeing the wunderkind in action, and he certainly impressed me.

The laugh of the day was from the same Thrashers-Penguins tilt. They had the kiss cam during a break in the action and the camera stopped on a woman and man sitting together. Must have been total strangers because both had the deer in the headlights look. The guy shook his head to a smattering of boos, the camera held the shot for a few moments longer and then a kid in the row behind them leaned over and kissed the girl on the cheek. Priceless.

I was a little concerned about losing Joey Devine to Oakland to get Mark Kotsay until finding out that the A’s will be paying all but $2 mil of Kotsay’s salary. I would have been okay with trying Schafer or Anderson and even Lillibridge in ST, however I still feel that Schafer needs to start the year in Pearl and then we can see what he does against AA pitching. I like the fact that we get another good clubhouse guy with a solid bat and glove especially since an equally good clubhouse guy with a solid bat and glove now calls Detroit home. It sounds like Kotsay’s back is healed and he feels 100%. Whether it’s right or not, I don’t believe Devine had the franchise’s trust and I think we rushed him up at the end of 2005 and paid dearly for that. Good luck to Joey in Oakland.

Got to see Boog Sciambi, Pete and Jerome Jurenovich in the building but didn’t see you, DOB. If you’re in the building tomorrow, I’ll look for you and say hi.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

BigDawg, I’d go with Jurrjens, too, to answer your question about the higher upside. I asked Frank Wren specifically about those two today, and he said both are projected as potential Nos. 2-3 type starters in the future. Not ruling out either being either an ace or merely bottom-of-rotation starter, of course, but saying their talent levels makes them projectible to Nos. 2-3 slots at some point, whether sooner or later….

JT, not until after Kotsay flies to Atlanta and has his physical on Monday. Assuming he passes it, it’ll probably be Monday afternoon or Tuesday for the announcement.

Rich Brave, they traded Joey Devine, not a potential top-of-the-rotation starter. Certainly not worth getting a queasy stomach over. Now, going into the season with Josh Anderson or a completely untested rookie as your center fielder? That might have been worth getting quite concerned about.

By Sean C

January 13, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

i was one of the last ones in the autograph line at FanFest today, when i get to the front to find its Clint Sammons and charlie liebrandt, however, josh anderson showed up with jair jurrjens to salvage it a little bit

that being said, DOB whats going to happen with Josh Anderson with the acquisition of Kotsay. Say Kotsay stays healthy this year, and then schafer is ready next year, was trading for anderson worth anything at all?

By uga-brave

January 13, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

i think we all hate this trade. now we get not kotsays great trade but we lose a gr

eat arm.

By Nolie

January 13, 2008 2:24 AM | Link to this

i think we all hate this trade. now we get not kotsays great trade but we lose a great arm. U-B

I’m not overwhelmed with it but I don’t hate it. Devine has not gotten it done in the bigs and obviously doesn’t have Bobby’s trust. Even if he does well elsewhere it won’t mean that he would here. I’m a believer in the “no such thing as a pitching prospect” for the most part and the Braves have very seldom given up a premium performer in a trade. My worries about Kot are two-fold. Will he stay healthy all season and can he get over the last three years(including last seasons admittedly meaningless injury influenced dud) of poor OBP, especially for a guy who might hit 2nd. If he hits 8th I have less questions about him. I’d have rather that they give up a little less and paid a little more salary, but I’m hopin’ it will be fine.

By Ray

January 13, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

This says it will be Devine + Class A pitcher . any idea who?

also street is trade bait next

The A’s and the Braves edged closer to completing a deal that would send center fielder Mark Kotsay to Atlanta in exchange for right-handed reliever Joey Devine.

Oakland also will receive a Class-A pitcher in the deal, according to a Braves source. Oakland will pay $5 million of Kotsay’s $7 million salary for 2008, and the A’s also will pick up the $325,000 relocation bonus Kotsay is to receive for being traded.

“He was rushed to the big leagues,” one major-league scout said. “He’s got great makeup, but that kind of left him shell-shocked. A change of scenery will be good for him.”

Two industry sources speculated Saturday that if the A’s land Devine, they will look to move closer Huston Street. General manager Billy Beane has made no secret that he’s rebuilding the team, “full bore.”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/12/SPTAUEHGQ.DTL&feed=rss.athletics

By SeattleBravesFan

January 13, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

DOB

I’m with you on the Kotsay trade, seems to make sense as long as he is healthy and plays a good portion of the year.

What I am curious about is how does Josh Anderson fit in now. Does this trade make the Anderson - Villareal trade seem unnecessary?

In my opinion Villareal and Devine are replaceable and having good young talent in the system can’t be bad. Just wondering what you see happening now with the CF slot and the players all mentioned as being on tap for competition at it?

Thanks man…

By SeattleBravesFan

January 13, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

In case I was confusing at all, I do get that Kotsay will be the starter if healthy, but just curious about more long term ideas….5 OF potential, which I know you have said probably won’t happen…that kind of stuff

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 13, 2008 5:20 AM | Link to this

Assuming that Cox will want to go with four outfielders , where does this trade leave the projected LF platoon of Matt Diaz and Brandon Jones.

Kotsay will start in CF and so will Francoeur in RF. Anderson will be the fourth outfielder splitting time between CF and LF. Leaving Diaz or Jones as the odd man out.

By Bravo Nam

January 13, 2008 6:24 AM | Link to this

Two things you gotta love about Kotsay…doesn’t strike out much, and last year rushed back from injury to try and help the A’s make the playoffs. A player with passion and who puts the team first may be worth the trade alone…for me, his attitude and lockerhouse presence are just as important as whatever else he may bring to the table for the Bravos.

By Yars

January 13, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

Kotsay in CF, Frenchy in RF, & a platoon of Diaz/B. Jones in LF. Anderson could wind up on Richmond’s opening day roster. Anyone know how many options Anderson has left, if any? I think we are all now wondering what the lineup will look like.

By wowobobwow

January 13, 2008 6:38 AM | Link to this

Coach, I think it might depend on how serious the Braves are about giving Infante and Liillibridge some time in the outfield. If those two guys can give us something there, then I think one of Anderson/ Jones might be looking at more AAA time. Anderson probably has more value as a 4th outfielder because he can play all 3 positions, and it sounds like B.Jones is limited to just Left. I don’t see a situation where Diaz would be the odd man out.

By Nolie

January 13, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this

Kotsay will start in CF and so will Francoeur in RF. Anderson will be the fourth outfielder splitting time between CF and LF. Leaving Diaz or Jones as the odd man outCoach

I think it more likely that Anderson will be the odd man out if nothing changes from the way it is now

By Mr. J

January 13, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

Yars,

With Kotsay in the fold, I think the lineup goes like this: 1)Escobar, 2)Kotsay, 3)CJ, 4)Tex, 5)KJ, 6)Francoeur, 7)McCann, 8)Diaz/Jones. Anderson goes to Richmond, where he provides insurance against Kotsay having more back problems. As far as the makeup of the bench, just can’t say until we’ve seen some Spring Training.

Questions to be addressed at ST include: 1. Can Aybar contribute, or is he a washout? 2. Does the positional versatility Bryan Pena worked on last year, along with his switch-hitting, trump Clint Sammons superior defensive abilities? 3. Can Scott Thorman show enough to force the Braves into keeping him on the team as a potential replacement for a departing Tex in ‘09?

By Runnin

January 13, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

DOB, weren’t you gonna have some winter updates for us, or did I miss it?

By rich brave

January 13, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Dave:

Yours of 12:18 a.m. Gotta’ disagree with you brother. You just don’t blow off a million dollar arm for a temporary fix even when its attached to a ten-cent head. And especially when its at least partly of your own making. We’ve got SIX guys out of options. Several are pitchers in situations similar to Kotsay in one sense. They’ve got to be used in ‘08 or put on waivers. Kotsay has to be dealt now or the “A’s” will lose him at the end of ‘08. Why not use players on the bubble in Atlanta and PAY Kotsay’s salary? That way 7.5 million goes on top of payroll for ONE year and you’ve still got a live arm to work with. If Ring or Boyer turn out to be world-beaters so be it. From what I saw its Devine over either. You never have enough good arms.

By Random

January 13, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

McFann: Please see the Braves Spring Training game from March 19. Brian hit a triple in that game.

Yes, he did — it was the most exciting two minutes in sport.

By Rodney Derrick

January 13, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Folks should look at Kotsay’s arm. He is big time assists leader. This is one clear area where AJ skill had diminished in field in last year or two. Combined with Francouer, Braves outfield will slow down runners taking extra base. Hey, since I read that Kotsay also pitched in relief in college, maybe he can help in blowouts. Devine may turn out great, but I still see scary images when he comes in to pitch with bases loaded; he probably does too.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 13, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Those decrying this trade are insane. Sure Kotsay hit .214 last year, but at least he had an excuse. What was Andruw’s excuse for hitting .220 or so?

It’s for one year and there are plenty of Devine’s to be found. C’mon folks, he’s a relief pitcher in his mid 20s who has been awful at the major league level in limited experience (please no one tell me how “great” he looked at Richmond; the Braves I watch play in Atlanta).

A healthy Kotsay will be more of a factor in Braves wins this season than Joey Devine.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 13, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Mr. J

I’d bat Francoeur or McCann 5th before Kelly Johnson. A team with Johnson and Diaz at the end of the order is in good shape.

By TommyP

January 13, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

To all those concerned that the Anderson/Villareal deal is now unnecessary???? No offense at all but I’m guessing y’all are casual fans. Let me explain the logic.

They got rid of a dead weight in Villareal. Now, he’s not awful or anything but he’s extremely replaceable and we rid ourselves of his escalating salary. To understate it, we have guys that can replace him as well.

We get Anderson who showed something in a September “cup of coffee” with Houston. He’s young, fast, can apparently track some fly balls….solid prospect but nothing big time. There’s no guarantee he can hit big league pitching over the long haul.

But what the Braves did was add some young depth with upside. There’s no guarantee that Kotsay gets through the season unscathed and so a guy like Anderson could fill in.

There’s no guarantee that Shafer will pan out next year so a guy like Anderson could replace him.

It’s called depth and the Braves added it in Anderson. Plus he’s dirt cheap and has upside, neither of which Villareal possessed.

If everything works out with Kotsay this year and Shafer next year, we could have ourselves a great bargaining chip in trade talks with Anderson.

Hope that helps.

By Yars

January 13, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Mr. J….I just can’t see Bobby hitting KJ in the #5 spot in the lineup, ahead of Frenchy, or even McCann. I think Kotsay could wind up being our leadoff hitter, if he has a solid spring. Yunel could wind up hitting #2, but I’d much rather see KJ hitting in that spot. KJ is a more patient hitter & will draw more walks than Yunel. What are the odds of the lineup looking like this:

1. Kotsay
2. KJ or Yunel
3. Chipper
4. Tex
5. Frenchy
6. McCann
7. Yunel or KJ
8. Diaz/ B. Jones

By Champ

January 13, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

My guess on the Braves opening day lineup:

1. Yunel Escobar - SS
2. Mark Kotsay - CF
3. Chipper Jones - 3B
4. Mark Teixeira - 1B
5. Jeff Franceour - RF
6. Brian McCann - C
7. Kelly Johnson - 2B
8. Matt Diaz - LF
9. Pitcher

Rotation: 1. John Smoltz 2. Tim Hudson 3. Tom Glavine 4. Chuck James 5. Jair Jurrjens

Relief: Rafael Soriano - Closer Peter Moylan - Setup Acosta Ohman Yates Ring Boyer

Bench: Thorman Infante B. Jones

This lineup looks solid. I sort of like how outside of Tex and Chipper, and maybe Franceour or McCann, it isn’t filled with all-stars. It is more of a solid up and down team. Only problem I see is filling the pen until Gonzo comes back. But when he does, it looks lights out.

By flange1

January 13, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Hey Coach,

I am the same boat when it comes to 4-5 OF. I wonder if they keep all 5 and trade Thorman. Let Diaz back up at 1B. Then keep 3 IF back ups (Infante and either Prado, Aybar, Lillibridge) and a catcher?

By beachcomber

January 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Have an inkling our deal with Oakland might come back to bite us where it hurts.

Always admired Kotsay’s spirited play but he makes the Ray’s Baldelli look bullet proof.

Biggest hesitation is a hunch Devine might be on the verge of big things. Time, as always, will tell.

By McFann

January 13, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Random (9:20 AM post)

Agreed. To bad that game wasn’t on TV!! But when I looked at the live box score and saw McCann’s name next to “3B”, I bugged out my eyes like the former mayor of New York.

Roman Gal (8:52 PM post)

OK, I understand. And I didn’t really think you’d be ticked, I was making a joke (Lew might be able to tell you about it ; ) ). You cann get the gameday on atlantabraves.com, just in case you’re int’rested.

Robert (8:52 PM post)

The big difference between myself and Bobby Cox is MY brain functions properly and doesn’t lose ball games for the Braves.

Really and truly? Ohmagosh!! I never would have known. OK, that was mean, but so was your comment, dipweed!! If your brain functions so much better than Bobby’s, hows come you never went out for manager, doofus? If you’re as smart as you think you are, then I bet you’d make a great manager. Seriously, if someone knows more about baseball than Robert J. Cox, they must be pretty darn intelligent.

Gee wiz, Francoeur is such a dork sometimes.

By NorthBeach Scott

January 13, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

TommyP Well said regarding the “why” the Villareal/Anderson deal. One more thought, successful neogitations require some posturing. By having a viable CF alternative in Anderson, the Braves did not appear to be as desperate to the marketplace for CF. When the A’s began to dismantle their team and rebuild, the Frank Wren & the Braves were well positioned to be opportunistic with the Kotsay acquisition.

JS and FW are masterful at overhyping Braves prospects and keeping their true endgame plan close to the vest. While this may frustrate us would-be GMs and Managers as we do not always see the plan as early as we would like; it is the way a winning franchise or business is run.

Finally, while I liked what I saw of Devine in a handful of non-pressure situations in Atlanta in 07, GHF is right on when he said there are plenty of Devines out there. Kotsay can be a “difference maker” for the Braves; Devine would be unlikely to have an opportunity. Devine also appeared to be in the Cox doghouse, and was NEVER going to be a factor as long as Cox is manager.

Great Trade FW! Thank you!

By ncgary

January 13, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

is wren apologizing for the hudson robbery jjs pulled on oakland or is he just trying to atone for his transgressions , cause sure kotsay is good but these 1 year rentals are crazy

why let devine go for one, he has strong work ethics , good technique and fairly good movement from what ive seen,

if you are getting the veteran in kotsay and hes healthy why not throw diaz in give jones left field and get blanton, surely with devine and a couple more good a prospects, and possibly a gorkys or a lillibridge the braves could then eat kotsays salary for 1 year,or a bigger portion than 2 mil anywayz,, it isnt going to throw them in to the luxury tax by any means,

im not opposed to kotsay per se, it wouldnt surprise me to see him hit 300 and gold glove,looks like we will have to hope for this anywayz,

devine is giving more than you will get probably imo

By McFann

January 13, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Francoeur’s not an All-Star yet, Champ.

By David-ATL14

January 13, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Hillarious commercial with our newest member of Braves nation.

Good pickup. Devine IMO will never be anything more than a middle inning righty specialist. Wouldn’t have made the parent club in 08.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

NorthBeachScott, very perceptive first graph in your 11:25 post. Couldn’t agree with you more.

By Steve McP

January 13, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Champ - that line up looks pretty good, even better if Hampton is fit and back to anything like his form, allowing Chuck to be number 5 or long relief if Jurrjens is as good as his hype (never seen him pitch so no idea if the idea of him being a starter this year is likely, although Braves noises seem to indicate that it is possible).

If this makes the rotation 6 strong sometimes (with James coming off relief to start occasionally to hep the old guys out) then there is only room for one more bench sitter, who would have to be the back up catcher. I think that would be too thin and so the Braves need to find a way to work it out, that will give Bobby enough options, but also gives Smoltz and Glavine some rest now and then, especially in the first couple of months of the season.

ST will tell us much, lets keep fingers crossed that everyone stays healthy, the injury to Hampton last year derailed the plans (as did the Gonzo problem and Wickman’s loss of interest in mid season), but one thing we do seem to have now is depth in all positions to provide reasonable cover for any of the starting position players and the pitching - a big benefit of the trades this year, we seem to have got good people without giving up players that we could have had to rely on in 2008.

By Fred Secunda

January 13, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Here’s how I see the bench shaking down.

Thorman B. Jones Infante Anderson Javy Lopez

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber, you wrote: “Always admired Kotsay’s spirited play but he makes the Ray’s Baldelli look bullet proof.”

Really?

Baldelli is 26, played a total of 127 games the past three years, and played as many as 139 games once in five major league seasons.

Kotsay is 32, played 324 games the past three years, played at least 139 games in six of 10 seasons, and played 128 and 129 in two others.

Baldelli’s career path so far: 156 games in 2003, 136 games in 2004, zero games in 2005, 92 games in 2006, 35 games in 2007.

So while Kotsay has hardly been the picture of good health the past couple of years, he’s practically Cal Ripken Jr. compared to Baldelli, despite being six years older.

Not to mention being a better outfielder than Baldelli and having the same career average (.282) as him with better career-highs in doubles, triples, homers and OBP than him.

About the only things Baldelli has done more of than Kotsay are steal bases (Baldelli had 27 steals as a rookie, 31 in 263 games since) and strike out (Baldelli has struck out once every 5.2 career at-bats, Kotsay once every 8.5 at-bats).

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Fred, you think the Braves will carry Thorman, five outfielders and only one backup infielder for three positions (2B/SS/3B)?

I don’t think so. With Kotsay in center they can use Infante as the backup CF in addition to his other roles, and carry a second backup infielder. At least that’s what I think they’ll do.

I just can’t imagine them relying on Infante as the only backup for 2B/3B/SS.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

However, I do think it’s possible the Braves could do as Flange1 suggests — trade Thorman, have Diaz back up 1B, and then keep five OFs and two backup INFs. If they don’t believe Kotsay can play 5-6 games a week without breaking down, I could see them doing that. They’d almost have to, since they don’t want to play Infante in CF on any kind of regular basis.

However, I don’t think they’d do this deal if they didn’t think there was a good chance Kotsay was healthy enough to withstand the seasonal grind and play 140-145 or more games. Remember, he’s still gotta pass a physical.

By brian

January 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I just wanted to register a disappointment with Fan Fest. Yes there is a huge turnout (which is great for the braves) and yes the Braves could spend 6-8 hours signing autographs, but without fans there would not be much of a league. Even though I do not live in Georgia, I am lucky that I have family that do - they went to Fan Fest to try and get some autograph balls (at least get one of Tex, Chipper, KJ, McCann, Francoeur, or smoltz/glavine if possible) for my 6 year old son (and myself of course). It was impossible to even get one. Long waiting lines and then who you were waiting for just leaves or gets “transferred” to another station. They even went both days and just describe it as a nightmare. Josh Anderson was supposedly one of the most available and the nicest - welcome to Atlanta Josh and thanks. I know autographs are a pain in the butt and I am sure when they sign them they must wonder if they are signing for a fan or for someone who is just going to put it on ebay, but signing autographs comes with being a major league player. My 6 year old worships Chipper, Mark, Smoltz, etc - please remember that when you sign as well guys

By brian

January 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I just wanted to register a disappointment with Fan Fest. Yes there is a huge turnout (which is great for the braves) and yes the Braves could spend 6-8 hours signing autographs, but without fans there would not be much of a league. Even though I do not live in Georgia, I am lucky that I have family that do - they went to Fan Fest to try and get some autograph balls (at least get one of Tex, Chipper, KJ, McCann, Francoeur, or smoltz/glavine if possible) for my 6 year old son (and myself of course). It was impossible to even get one. Long waiting lines and then who you were waiting for just leaves or gets “transferred” to another station. They even went both days and just describe it as a nightmare. Josh Anderson was supposedly one of the most available and the nicest - welcome to Atlanta Josh and thanks. I know autographs are a pain in the butt and I am sure when they sign them they must wonder if they are signing for a fan or for someone who is just going to put it on ebay, but signing autographs comes with being a major league player. My 6 year old worships Chipper, Mark, Smoltz, etc - please remember that when you sign as well guys

By Lew

January 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I think this trade is a perfect example of you asked for it, now you got it and be careful what you ask for in the future-you might get it, too.

As usual, with almost any trade or situation, half will be thrilled and half will continue the moaning and wailing, gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands, b!tch!ng and groaning. Many were not satisfied to let the rookies play it out and try to win the spot. Now you have exactly what you wanted-a player from another team that they no longer wanted and a pitcher gone that it looked like BC would never give him his shot anyway.

If Kotsay stays healthy, it may well be a good deal. If not, then half of you may continue to moan and wail and be just as happy as you always are.

Coach-I see why you would think Anderson will win out over Brandon Jones, seeing that the Braves do not consider him a viable CF option. However, he is considered ready and has played center as recently as this winter. He has considerably more offensive upside than Anderson (based on minor league performance). I believe Anderson retains options and if Kotsay were to go down to injury, he could be called up, Brandon could fill in or Infante of Lillibridge (or even Schaeffer, if deemed ready) could take care of CF. I see Brandon being the fourth outfielder.

By Lew

January 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber-E mail me LewHartman@comcast.net Several of us have Spring Training plans to meet in Clearwater and you might be interested.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

TommyP, just got up to your 10:14 post. Also agree with you.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Running, I’ll put that stuff in a new blog tomorrow. It’ll give me something to blog about as we wait for a Kotsay announcement later Monday or Tuesday.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Yars, RE your 6:29 post: Anderson’s not out of options. Like you, I believe he could end up at Richmond to start the season.

No way I see Diaz as an odd man out. Braves like his bat, he’s a great fit in the clubhouse, and his defense has gone from suspect to decent, not a detriment. I see a B Jones/Diaz LF platoon as most likely scenario.

By AdirondackDave

January 13, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

DOB — Color me dense but with Diaz’s defense now at a decent level, why do you think he’s not full-time in left? Wouldn’t he be a full-time player on most other teams, all considered?

By Beisbol

January 13, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Man, I really don’t get why so many are writing off Willy Aybar. If he is no longer suffering from injuries, depression and the resultant addiction, Aybar is the best hitter on the Braves bench. Infante has the most utility and will be a fine addition to the bench but Aybar finds ways to get on base with a hit or a walk. That’s invaluable for a pinch hitter/fill in off the bench.

Neither Lillibridge nor Schafer will make the team out of spring training. Nor should they. But they can be/will be the Braves wild card down the stretch the way Frenchy and McCann were in 2005 and the way Escobar, Ellsbury, and Joba were for the Braves, Red Sox, and Yankees this year. Even Salty gave the Braves a nice shot in the arm when they needed it in the middle of the season.

Let Schafer and Lillibridge get all the seasoning they can in the minors. Lillibridge’s walk rate dropped significantly last year in the minors. He is a good hitter but he needs to improve upon that since he is not a big slugger. Schafer is still too young and inexperienced.

You don’t want them to suffer what Devine has suffered by being rushed. If you don’t have to, you also don’t want to have to endure some of the growing pains we have had to endure with Frenchy because Frenchy was rushed by at least a season and a half to the majors. Let them fine tune their game until they are ready and/or the Braves desperately need them the way the Braves once needed to rush Frenchy and McCann in 2005 to fill immediate needs.

Hard to tell whether the Braves really think Javy has anything left or whether it is just a public relations move/Braves showing honor and loyalty to one of the better catchers in the history of the franchise. Hope he has something left because the lineup really suffers when McCann is unable to go. It’s amazing the pain tolerance threshold that McCann has.

I like Thorman’s power but I don’t like his inability to make solid contact often enough. When he makes solid contact, it goes a country mile. The problem is he so rarely makes solid contact. But he does seem to do better in his second crack of every level of professional ball.

The way I see the bench is: Aybar, Infante, Jones/Diaz, either Lopez or Sammons, and then either Thorman or Anderson. Thorman has more upside and power potential but there is no real need for a backup first baseman in 2008. Anderson brings more speed and ability to get on base and the ability to backup in center where the Braves might need him because of how serious and detrimental Kotsay’s recent injuries have been to his performance and ability to stay on the field.

I’m not sure whether I would stick with Thorman or Anderson. I like Thorman’s potential to provide some thunder late in games. Pena, Blanco, and Prado should be on the outside looking in.

At the worst, Kotsay becaomes an average number 8 hitter until Schafer is ready or until the Braves trade for a better option in the middle of the season. At the best, Kotsay thrives hitting second, seeing all of those fat pitches hitting in front of Chipper and Tex.

It just wasn’t gonna happen here with Devine. His manager didn’t trust Devine. Devine himself didn’t seem to trust Devine whenever he got called up. The increase in walk rates whenever he got called up was alarming. Think about McBride. He did the same thing. Walked too many last year. The only reliever Cox tolerated too many walks from recently was Mahay but that was because Mahay was a stoic old professional who didn’t panic and would bear down. Nothing seems to tick Cox off more than a reliever who walks batters.

JoJo’s lack of command in the majors last year is a big reason Cox will probably initially go with Jurrjens over JoJo because Jair showed much more command in the majors last season.

Devine might just turn into a stud for Oakland. Won’t matter. It won’t make it a bad trade. It just wasn’t gonna happen here. And I’m sure FW and JS before him did their due diligence and tried to get more value for Devine. It probably didn’t exist. Kotsay was the best Devine could fetch.

Don’t fret too much about losing a former first rounder in Devine. I watched two masterful QBs yesterday, two of the best there ever was and ever will be. Neither was a first rounder. One sat alot in college and was drafted in the 6th round. The other played college ball in a non BCS conference and got traded after one season of professional ball.

Falcons fans can cry about losing Favre but it probably never would have happened in Atlanta for Favre. He was too much of a wildman who loved the pleasures and sights of Buckhead just a bit too much and his coach at the time didn’t trust him enough to work with him. The change of scenery is what made Favre excel. I think most astute Falcons fans understand that just as most astute Braves fans will understand the same thing about Devine if he excels elsewhere. And I’m not saying Devine is a wildman like Favre - just a wild pitcher.

To give up grand slams is Devine.

By brian

January 13, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

DOB - do you see a scenario where Lillebridge stays in the majors getting 3-4 starts a week (SS, 2B, and CF) much like Chone Figgins? Who will be the backup CF if Anderson goes to the minors and Blanco starts in AAA?

By nOLIE

January 13, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Biggest hesitation is a hunch Devine might be on the verge of big things. Time, as always, will tell.Beachcomber

The Braves have traded dozens of pitching prospects over the years and each time fans project doom & gloom about the future that is being given up, but that never really happens. next to none of them(gee I remember that the apocalypse was coming when they traded away Bell; and several others too )ever even make it at all in the bigs and those that do are usually just journeymen. Schmidt finally had a few impressive years but it took him a good while to get there and he has been as injury prone as they thought he might be. Wainwright has had a short decent career and might actually end up above average, but Drew got them to the playoffs again which was the whole point. So many fans complain about not going for it, but then over-react when the trigger is pulled. Devine was not even in the top 10 prospects list for the Braves about half of which are pitchers rated above him. And if he does make it somewhere else it doesn’t mean that he would have made it here where he obviously has confidence issues

By Romal Gal

January 13, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Braves fans are the Greatest! They make standing in line for hours (and hours and hours) enjoyable.

Did anyone go to Fanfest both days? If so, was today any better than yesterday?

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Beisbol, great post….

Adirondack, Diaz himself knows that, while it’s possible he might be a fine every-day player, it also quite possible that the manner in which he’s been used the past couple of years is precisely why he’s been so successful. Or at least a large part of the reason.

He doesn’t hit for the power you’d like in an every-day LF, but hits for a high average, thrives in a platoon, and is still very affordable.

Brandon Jones is expected by the Braves to be a long-term standout player, and if he’s ready (which they believe he is) then they’re going to play him, and a platoon might be a very good way to break him in, the way the Braves have done with some others including Andruw Jones in his first season.

Braves believe B. Jones will hit for average and power, a run-producing, impact type of player and a strong corner outfielder.

By Random

January 13, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Braveheart—

I second DAP — that was a funny post.

First you said “This could make him [Kotsay] better than he really is because pitchers have to be more aggressive with him.”.

Then you said “KJ’s immense patience might have worked against him hitting second because pitchers would have been so much more aggressive with Tex and Chipper coming up next.”.

What gives? Why is it good for pitchers to be aggressive with Kotsay, but bad for pitchers to be aggressive with KJ? Something to do with KJ’s patience as a hitter? KJ ain’t afraid of the ball — sure, he has the patience to wait for a good pitch, but he knows what to do with a good pitch regardless of when it comes in the count. Right?

I don’t get it. (Ice and idiot.)

Otherwise, I like your arguments for Kotsay 2nd and KJ 7th — I’m sold. (With Escargot leading off, FrenchFry & BigMac flipping each other off for 5th & 6th, and the LF duo (or only Diaz, I wish) 8th.)

By Random

January 13, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

McFann: “Agreed.”

?!?!?

Somebody please reveal to McFann that I was actually ripping on Heap, and not joining her in her unabashed juvenile adulation.

(Or do you figure she’s simply being disingenuously naive, so as to rob me of my fun?)

By Champ

January 13, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

McFann-I said Franceour-maybe. Same with McCann. I didn’t mean that they would be elected to the all-star team, I meant they might play like all-stars.

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

While I like the Kotsay acquisition, I was not thrilled to hear of Devine being dealt. For whatever reason, Bobby sure had not confidence in the guy.

So, where do we go from here?? We have filled the CF hole (Kotsay/Anderson), we have plugged up the need for a utility guy that can pick ‘em at SS (Infante), we have added a couple of possible quality rotation guys (Tom Terrific and Triple J), and we have gotten a lefty specialist for the pen (Ohman).

Oh, and let’s not forget the vet behind the plate with Juice Lopez.

What is now to be done or discussed??? Are we done before spring training?

I see us having a couple of pieces that do not fit well; Thorman and Pena. Will Aybar be able to make the bell in the spring? Can Sammons hit enough to do the rest of his learning at the major league level? Do we have enough arms for the pen?

Will the Braves be tempted to sell high with Diaz?

Ah, the intrigue of the off season….

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Hey, McFann, I hear that your boy “Baby Huey” McCann has taken up yoga. If the dude loses weight, I would be very happy (but I would also have to think up another good nickname).

I think that beard worked well last year to add a few years to his age. Has Lillibridge started shaving yet?

By Random

January 13, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

McFann: when I looked at the live box score and saw McCann’s name next to “3B”, I bugged out my eyes like the former mayor of New York.

Maybe you read it wrong — maybe McCann was just giving Chipper a blow at the hot corner.

“the former mayor of New York” — who are you referring to, Little Flower?

By TennesseePaul

January 13, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

DOB: Yes. Same movie. Not bad. But not the best movie I’ve seen in 2007/2008. Glad Rolling Stone like it. They can put it on their DVD catalog and it should look all pretty up there. But that doesn’t make it any better than what it was, which wasn’t better than No Country. No Country was simply a better story, better direction, better acting, better everything.
To put it another way, when No Country was over I thought about it constantly. Ran through it in my mind for days. I’ll watch it again in the theaters and many times on DVD.
When There Will Be Blood was over I went home and typed my post and didn’t think about it again until someone asked.

I’m a little surprised some here are upset about losing Devine. I would have thought that after the last few years it would have been obvious Devine had no future with this club. He’d actually get called up to sit in the Bullpen without being used. This trade isn’t bad in my mind. I think Kotsay will help the team. I hope he is healthy and can play the season out. He appears to have the Blauser ability to turn it up for a contract. Not as much as Blauser as it appears Kotsay plays pretty hard every year anyway. I’d imagine a healthy Kotsay in 2008 is going to be a huge plus for this team.

There was very little chance this team was going to keep Anderson on the MLB roster. The kid has options to go to the minors so he can be pulled up in the event Kotsay or someone else goes down. I’d imagine they’ll keep a more experienced player on the bench. I’d hope for Aybar as that guy can use the bat when he’s healthy and sober. Plus he has speed. He’d make the bench much better than maintaining Anderson on there. Anderson hasn’t really ben an OBP machine in his pro career. Aybar has. And Aybar has some pop in his bat.
Between JoJo and Jair, I’d say Jair has a higher ceiling and more potential. JoJo needs a lot more time in the minors. He was uninspiring last season to say the least. The rotation though will be interesting. I think keeping James would be more beneficial than dropping Jair into the back of the rotation, assuming Hampton pitches this coming year. James is a proven commodity who would be a perfect back end of the rotation guy. I expect him to get even better this year.

This team is shaping up to make a strong run at the division. I like how we have reduced the K machines even more. We only have 1 potential K rally killer (granted this guy does very well in rally situations making it easier to take). And by that phrasing I mean a guy who strikes out a ton but doesn’t get on base at a high rate. KJ still gets on base which I think is part of the reason his strikeouts are high. He’s taking the pitcher deep into counts. Not a bad asset to have at the top of the order. But I’d still bat him 7th. He had a .370 OBP last season in the #1 spot and a .450+ OBP in the seventh spot. Plus Francoeur and McCann hit better when he was down there. Yunel had a .400 OBP in lead off with a .351 average.
I think a strong lineup would look as follows:
1. Yunel
2. Kotsay
3. Chipper
4. Teixeira
5. McCann
6. Francoeur
7. Kelly
8. Diaz/Jones
9. Pitcher

That keeps it in a good rhythm for Cox as well…

1. R
2. L
3. S
4. S
5. L
6. R
7. L
8. R/L
9. Pitcher

That leaves the bench with Infante, Jones, Thorman, Backup Catcher, and Open Spot. Which I hope Open Spot is Aybar. Catcher will be interesting to see play out.

Bullpen is another matter. Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Yates look like the only sure bets right now. I could be forgetting some guys though.

By McFann

January 13, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Hope he has something left because the lineup really suffers when McCann is unable to go. It’s amazing the pain tolerance threshold that McCann has.

Couldn’t agree more. If he wasn’t tolerant of his pain, he prob’ly would’ve only played about 120 games last year. He didn’t go on the DL because he’s stubborn and like, “I’m too good for the DL”—No, he didn’t go on the DL because he’s willing to help the team out in any way, even if it means playing with a little (or a lot, never really knew with him) of pain.

Random

Ripping on—WELL!! Fine, just…be that way, then!! Unabashed? You bet, pal!! You just wait until the season starts!! And I wasn’t trying to rob you of your fun—or maybe subconsciously I was, heh heh.

Uh, Champ, you do know that McCann is a two-time Al-Star, true? Although, in his book, it should only be one time.

He’s such a good dude. : )

By McFann

January 13, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

10Paul

I like your lineup.

By Beisbol

January 13, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Hey, McFann, I hear that your boy “Baby Huey” McCann has taken up yoga. If the dude loses weight, I would be very happy (but I would also have to think up another good nickname).

We thought he was the next Yogi Berra. Turns out he is Yoga Berra.

By McFann

January 13, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Who are you referring to, Little Flower? Random

Uh…only if “Little Flower” is that bug-eyed dipweed that thinks he cann be president.

By Champ

January 13, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

McFann-Again, I was disregarding whether they made the all-star team, and stating that they will play like all-stars. Not just “according to their position”, but strictly all-stars.

By the way, did you notice McFann is trying to become more flexible?

By McFann

January 13, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Uh…yeah, Wayne, I heard…er, that is, I read about that, yeah. I’ll be happy if he loses wait, too, ‘cause then you guys will LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Let’s leave poor “Baby Huey” alone, so he can get as fat as he wants to be…..

Duh, we wouldn’t bring it up if we didn’t care. We WANT him to be trim and healthy, as he is one of our most important Braves players. So, if we bug him, and he loses weight (wait??), then it was all good, right?

By Futbol

January 13, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

McCann needs to drag Hampton and Chipper to all of his yoga, pilates, and kickboxing classes. Those two would greatly benefit from greater flexibility and the stretching out of the old muscles, tendons, and ligaments.

By Jeff Fancore

January 13, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

I FIGURED IT OUT!!

The reason the Braves signed Javy Lopez was so he could tell Teixeira how bad Baltimore and Boston are and convince him not to go to either of those places…Now they just gotta get somebody from New York!

By McFann

January 13, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Um, Wayne, my whole point was that if he’s trim, then you won’t have to rag on him for being fat. DUH, dude.

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

McFatt Sorry, BIG IF sister. If he were trim, we would never be having this conversation about him needing to trim down. So, until Baby Huey gets into a decent playing weight, then maybe you need to tone down your whining and crybaby posts.

I would be thrilled to LEAVE HIM ALONE as you scream out, if there was nothing to bother him about.

Hey, it’s all good though….. We need a few whipping boys (or girls) for the blog.

By ncgary

January 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

well wayne i think the team shaped up pretty well too, i was disappointed in losing devine , little prejudiced he went to ncstate, but he does have a high upside though, probably closing for someone in 3 years , kotsay could be spectacular though , lets hope he makes us say andruw schaefer who, woulda coulda shoulda liked to seen blanton thrown in and eat the salary ourselves , even if it took a jones or diaz platoon member and a couple hot “a” ball prospects along with devine, sounds like something that coulda been made to happen, i mean hey even if you eat the whole 7 million and he gives you an average kotsay year of 281 , probably worth every penny, maybe the doc could fudge the physical a little , haha and say we need blanton too, if hamptons 75 % we really want need him if everyone stays healthy, but come mid july or even spring training , an excess of pitchers would make some exciting prospects go braves surely its only 5 more weeks til p & c isnt it

By McFann

January 13, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Let’s not go through this again. And you typed, “There was nothing to bug him about.” Bug him? Do you think he reads this? Well, I don’t know about him, but you’re buggin’ me, pal.

And don’t pull that “McFatt” junk on me. Who do you think you are, Met Drool? Good grief.

By Metropolitan Man

January 13, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Wow, so you guys got a “broke back” center fielder to tie things over until the “future” is ready??? What are you guys going to do when Chumper is holding his oblique and quad while wearing his protective boot for a couple of months. What happens if Glavines blood clots return?? What happens when Kelly Johnson makes those errors at crucial parts of the game that cost you guys wins like last year??? What happens when your starting pitchers get upset because the defense up the middle aint what it used to be?

Maine stepped up 2 years in a row when the big games was on the line. 2006 in the playoffs against the Dodgers and Cards (3-13 my eye). The second to last game of the season (2007) of a “must win” game he nearly pitched a no hitter against the Marlins.

Perez: Shut down the Cards in 2006 when needed. Shut down the braves all of last year but none more important than the start of the sweep at the Ted before getting swept by the philthies on that 7 game stretch.
Glavine: No longer Clutch for anyone. Might eat some innings but will let you down in the playoffs.

I dont think the braves realized what they have with Glavine. Hudson is the only worry because Smolzt is finally showing his age like El Duque. Pedro is no Hampton so welcome back Pedro. Other than that, I just realized you may be headed for 4th behind the NATS!!!!

As far as that other stuff that was discussed here on Friday, no problems here. There is nothing to clarify because I think on this blog most people are considerate and mindful of the things that are said or typed. I’m no rabble rouser but I speak out on things that I feel strongly about (METS come to mind). I for a fact know this is the cleanest blog on the AJC and hope it stays that way, so with that in mind everyone take note that I’m no race baiter or hater. As far as I know baseball never had a color, just winners and losers.

LETS GO METS!!!!

By Lew

January 13, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-You’re so full of it, it’s surprising your neighbors haven’t complained that your septic tank’s backed up.

If our new guy does go down with back problems, we still have three or four players lined up to take his place. If Smoltz does get injured (which he hasn’t in the past several years, we still have three or four starters we can use.

If (When) Moises’ hamstrings tear like the rotted string they are these days, missing another 80 games, you’ve got no one to take his place-Or anyone on your roster to back up DelGado. Or El Duque. Or Pedro. You do have four second basemen, though. That’s good because you will likely end up with Castillo and Gotay injured. Now you have some back up.

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

BTW, I AM a big fan of Brian McCann, in case there was ever any doubt. And, if Brian reads this, I am pulling for his injury recovery, and for him to have a victory over the creeping weight syndrome that many of us suffer from. Mine has cause me to become diabetic in my middle years.

Now, gotta tell you McFann, you are one real piece of work. First, if you quote someone, then do the cut and paste stuff, and quote me correctly.

Second, who do YOU think you are. You’ve been around for a month or so, now you are telling others off as if you have earned some right to do so. Yeah, I know, it’s a blog and you can say anything you want to, but that is a childish way to be.

Third, you need to develop some thicker skin. Would you defend McCann if he stayed at the same weight and lost his edge, and shortened his career?

So, for your information, I have been blogging on here for a while, and if you had been around last year, you would have heard me calling McCann “Baby Huey” as a term or endearment. You would also have heard me state that the extra 20+ pounds he has put on I believe will shorten his career, and cause him much more harm than any good.

So, please do not take it upon yourself to try to scold me for speaking the truth. Isn’t it past your bedtime?

By rich brave

January 13, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

LET’S GO BRAVES!!!! Take that Metropolitan cretin.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 13, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Hey , metrodump. How did your muts do in the playoffs this past season ?

O ‘yea , I seem to remember witnessing the worst choke job in MLB history.

Good luck luck in 2008.

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Lew, how have you been? We have about 18 inches of snow on the ground these days.

Hope all is well.

By Wayne in Utah

January 13, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

A question for my blogging friends out there: Do you think we will see any more movement from the Braves before Spring Training?

Personally, I think we might be done. Also, if a big offer comes for Diaz, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him packing his bags. While he is an very good ballplayer, he does have some limitations. Sell high??

Whaddya think?

(Metro Dude: hang in there man, maybe you guys can make the wild card this year!)

By rich brave

January 13, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Sic um’ Lew. Yeah. H&ll yeah. Braves rule-Mets drool. A bunch of second-class New Yorkers headed in baseball history by 1st baseman Dr. Strangeglove. What a bunch of whining weasels. Haunted by the visage of the all powerful Larry Wayne Jones who delights in dashing Metropolitan fans dreams of grandure. See you on the field Queens wimps. Speaking of broke backs, you should move to Brokeback Mountain you nefarious creeps. Or maybe see the light and try Kings county across the river. I can’t - I can’t contain my rage and disdain at the putrid punks. I’m losing control. I’ve gotta’ shut this down before I….I…

By Andy

January 13, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any pixs from the FanFest of Javy? Everyone says he’s really in good shape now, and that’s he’s not as heavy…

By Random

January 13, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

McMann: “Ripping on—WELL!! Fine, just… be that way, then!!”

Ah, Little Flower — you still don’t get exactly how I was ripping on McMann, do you? Admit it.

Sigh.

I need to work a more mature audience — where’re chrisklob and joebrave, anyway?

By Lew

January 13, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Wayne-I’m doing fine. We’re due another 8 Inches of snow tonight. By the end of the week, it’s back to sub zero temperatures (it was 63 this week). In the past two weeks, there has been about an 80 degree range of temperatures. Just another crazy winter in Vermont.

By John Franco

January 13, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

MetroMan, welcome back. You never did tell me how last year turned out for the Mets. Seriously, I left for Europe with our boys curusing to the playoffs but I see the Phillies!? won the division. What the heck happened? Fill me in.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 13, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Wayne , rumor has it that the Braves are still looking for another left hander to add in the bullpen. Will Ohman will stick , Royce Ring is a question mark and Mike Gonzalez isn’t due back until the second half of the season.

By BabyGoatEater

January 13, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Didn’t know if you guys have seen this yet……from baseball prospectus

I got a great question in chat yesterday that I just couldn’t answer without more thought. It appears that I can’t dig it up on the site, so whoever I’m not able to credit for it, you have my thanks.

The question was about breakouts, and specifically, which players I think will take a big step forward in 2008. Now, within the chat, I wrote about Jeff Francoeur, who I think the world of heading into this season. Just 24 (this past Tuesday, actually; happy birthday, Jeff!), Francoeur comes into the season with more than 1600 career plate appearances. If I knew little else other than that, I would be optimistic, as getting that much experience prior to 24 is usually a good sign for a player’s growth potential.

We know more, though. We know that Francoeur has tremendous physical skills, ones that have enabled him to hit .280 and slug .463 through his 2 ½ seasons despite being a very raw specimen at the plate. We also know that he is more than a hitter; Francoeur is a good defensive right fielder with one of the best arms in the game. He’s not fast, although he runs the bases reasonably well and has decent speed. The mark against Francoeur has always been his lack of plate discipline. Even when he hit .300 and slugged .549 down the stretch for the Braves in 2005, a 58/8 strikeout-to-walk ratio—on the heels of a 90/16 at Double-A—indicated that those numbers would be dropping.

In ’06, starting every Atlanta Braves game, Francoeur went into May before drawing his first walk and went on to draw just 17 on his own in 686 plate appearances, while striking out 132 times. That’s an untenable combination; there are no great hitters in major league history with an 8-to-1 ratio of strikeouts to unintentional walks. There are precious few regulars with that kind of ratio. The problem was that Francoeur was being treated like a star rather than a player with a flaw in his approach. Again, he started every single game, and because of that, he drove in 103 runs despite a lousy .260/.293/.449 line. He wasn’t helping the Braves, but the RBI, the physical tools, and the durability gave the impression that he was.

In 2007, however, Francoeur showed the kind of incremental development you love to see in a young player. Leveraging the development of his physical skills with the experience of a thousand MLB plate appearances, Francoeur went deeper into counts, seeing a career-high 3.44 pitches per plate appearance. His walk rate more than doubled, going from only 2.4 percent of plate appearances in his first two seasons to a little more than five percent. That’s still very low, but it’s also a dramatic improvement. The deeper counts didn’t affect his strikeout rate, which held steady, giving him an acceptable K/BB of 3.5 to one.

What’s really impressive is that while he was modifying his approach, Francoeur wasn’t seeing any loss in productivity. He batted .293 last year, an improvement on his career .271 mark. While his power appeared to decline—his isolated power slipped from 189 to 151—Francoeur had essentially the same rate of groundballs to fly balls (1.16), and the same extra-base-hit rate and raw total of extra-base hits, 59, as he had in 2006. Loosely speaking, 16 triples and home runs became doubles last season. That does not indicate a drop in power; the distribution of extra-base hits is subject to fluctuations from year to year that have little to do with a player’s ability. That Francoeur’s total XBH and his G/F numbers remained constant while he improved the other aspects of his game is a big positive sign.

It’s all of these things that have me excited about his 2008 season. Take a player who has top-tier tools (save speed), who has lots of experience at a young age, and who has clearly improved the biggest hole in his game—that’s a player who projects for a significant leap forward. It Francoeur merely redistributes his XBH and adds 10 walks and five singles, you’re looking at a .300/.350/.500 player with plus defense. If he takes a leap forward—which is what I can see happening—you’re talking about a mid-ballot MVP candidate. Given the RBI he’ll end up with as a product of batting behind Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira, and the bonus given to a player who comes out of nowhere, and he might actually be the BBWAA MVP.

So Francoeur tops my list of breakout candidates for 2008. The rest of the list? I guess I still need more time, so check back next week.

By McFann

January 13, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Hey, y’all, I read ya. No harm done…I guess.

That’s it for me tonight.

By Metropolitan Man

January 13, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Last time I checked Lew, Anderson, and Easly could play 1st, second, and the outfield. Gotay can play second, and the newly acquired Pagan is like super sub Chavez( hurt in winter ball but ready by spring training). Who spells Chipper when he gets hurt without a decline in power….there is no A.Jones and Tex cant carry a team by himself. Sure Mcann and Frenchy will help but you cant possibly count on Chipper and expect the power numbers to be the same.

John Franco: What happended was the braves couldnt beat the philthies in the end and neither could the METS. The philthies played like they wanted it towards the end and took it. The killer instinct W. Randolph tried to impose went unanswered…..but in 2008 you better believe it will be there. No team wants to be known as the chokers they were and will do everything to erase September, not 2007, just September. I’m super excited and cant wait for the season. You guys are going to be atr such a lost for words come the All Star break….beleive that!!!

LETS GO BIG BLUE!!!!!

By car3boogie

January 13, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

FanFest Review from one Dad’s view

Too many People.

In the kids Area. Fancoeur is just like you see him on TV and great with the Kids cause he is one.

Also In the kids Area Chipperwas great but he is a Gator fan… and turned red as a beet when a small boy asked him if the Mets Sucked.

Matt Diaz is a cool dude He was pitching on the Homerun Derby Field he pitched to small kids Dads and teenagers and they all Laughed As I did in line for about an hour and never saw a HR hit til they changed Pitchers Clint Sammons came on in relief and a lil left handed 10 year old came up and blasted one over the right field wall, the crowd around it went wild. The kid was not real excited but his chubby grey headed daddy was proud. Then the lil lefty went to play centerfield as another kid hit and Josh Anderson talked with him. That kid truly enjoyed that lil talk.

That lil lefty was my Chipper.

By Metropolitan Man

January 13, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: If the wild card is attainable then that will have to do after the 2007 finish. Anything short of making the playoffs in 2008 makes METS fans rabid and we tend to take it out on Stankees and braves fans. The philthie fans are anooying for another reason other than winning so we dont dislike them as much…..yet.

By Metropolitan Man

January 13, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

“Also In the kids Area Chipperwas great but he is a Gator fan… and turned red as a beet when a small boy asked him if the Mets Sucked.”

He turned red because he feels they use to suck and they dont anymore. Plus his corrective boot was laced a little too tight!!!

By Metropolitan Man

January 13, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Oh, Delgado is in contract year which usually translates into big numbers (unless you are A Jones). Then next year Tex would be a free agent…not that i want to see him a METS guy but the competition will be stiff for him. The stankees can lay claim so you better give him the Gold Club treament or he will pull a JD Drew, Gary Sheffield, and countless others moves of getting the hell out of the broke braves franchsie.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 13, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

San Francisco Chronicle

Susan Slusser , Chronicle staff writer:

The A’s and the Braves edged closer to completing a deal that would send center fielder Mark Kotsay to Atlanta in exchange for right-handed reliever Joey Devine.

Oakland also could receive a Class-A pitcher in the deal, according to a Braves source. Oakland will pay $5 million of Kotsay’s $7 million salary for 2008, and the A’s also will pick up the $325,000 relocation bonus Kotsay is to receive for being traded.

Kotsay is expected to have a physical in Atlanta on Monday, the Braves source said. When the A’s acquired Kotsay from San Diego before the 2004 season, his medical history and the physical delayed things for several days; he has a history of back trouble and he had surgery to repair a disk in his lower back in March. “That’s why this is still kind of a tentative thing,” the Braves source said.

Kotsay said he has been hitting for the past month, the earliest he’s been able to do so in years, and he said he feels great. If the Braves are convinced he’s fine, the deal could be announced as soon as Monday.

Devine, 24, was the Braves’ first-round pick in 2005 and he was brought up later that year, but he had a rough time, giving up grand slams in his first two big-league appearances, then he gave up Chris Burke’s walk-off homer in the 18th inning of Game 4 of the 2005 NL Division Series against Houston, ending Atlanta’s season.

“He was rushed to the big leagues,” one major-league scout said. “He’s got great makeup, but that kind of left him shell-shocked. A change of scenery will be good for him.”

Two industry sources speculated Saturday that if the A’s land Devine, they will look to move closer Huston Street. General manager Billy Beane has made no secret that he’s rebuilding the team, “full bore.”

Beane was not available for comment Saturday. He and his wife, Tara, welcomed twins, a boy and a girl, Jan. 4.

By Random

January 13, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah—

Whether before ST (and I think there may be a fair chance of that), during or after, we should be seeing the Braves trading their out-of-option guys who won’t make the 25 and wouldn’t clear waivers traded for some lower level prospects.

Of course, before ST, it may not be as easy as we make out to say who won’t make our 25, and other teams may be likely to wait for ST to determine exactly what they think they need.

Specifically, Pena &/or Aybar may be on that bubble, and maybe even Thorman (though I hope we keep him). Ring, Boyer & Bennett all figure to make the 25. Aybar, however, might very well be able to slip through waivers at this point.

(rich brave knows more about options than I do.)

And then, like you say, if someone makes us an offer we can;t refuse, we probably won’t refuse it. I don’t see that happening, though.

By Random

January 13, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah—

Whether before ST (and I think there may be a fair chance of that), during or after, we should be seeing the Braves trading their out-of-option guys who won’t make the 25 and wouldn’t clear waivers traded for some lower level prospects.

Of course, before ST, it may not be as easy as we make out to say who won’t make our 25, and other teams may be likely to wait for ST to determine exactly what they think they need.

Specifically, Pena &/or Aybar may be on that bubble, and maybe even Thorman (though I hope we keep him). Ring, Boyer & Bennett all figure to make the 25. Aybar, however, might very well be able to slip through waivers at this point.

(rich brave knows more about options than I do.)

And then, like you say, if someone makes us an offer we can;t refuse, we probably won’t refuse it. I don’t see that happening, though.

By David O'Brien

January 13, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Metroman, just came on line to check posts before shutting it down for the night. Glad to see your knee-slappin’, fall-on-the-floor hilarity at full throttle. Man, that string of posts from about 8 o’clock to 10:30 or so … wow, just great stuff. Working overtime to share with us your wit.

You know while the writers are on strike in Hollywood, I’d imagine there would be plenty of work on the late-night shows for someone so gifted at turning a hilarious phrase.

By TexasBrave

January 14, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

Man I love the way things are shaping up for the Braves. A lot of tough (good thing)decisions on who stays on the ML Roster for the bench, bullpen and last of the rotation. Hated to see Devine go but love the veteran presence in CF.

With the addition of Kotsay who will be sent down to the minors? I know the knee jerk reaction is Anderson because everyone thinks B. Jones is ready (as do I), however Anderson has proven himself more than BJ at the major league level and is a CF where BJ’s main position is LF. Anderson could easily spell Kotsay for a game if needed and be platooned with Diaz in LF. Although I must say I really wish Bobby Cox would see what Diaz could do full time in LF say for two months and if he starts to decline then go back to the platoon.

I really can’t see keeping 5 outfielders on the roster with the ability of Infante and Thorman in a pinch to play the outfield. Also if Pena is the backup catcher he could play out there also. Keeping 5 outfielders would also leave the infield fairly thin. I see the bench consisting of Infante, Thorman, Aybar, Anderson and Pena.

I would still like to see us pick up another proven lefty reliever. I don’t think Ring is going to cut it and that leaves only Ohman. Oh man that spells trouble if he pitches like he did at Wrigley. Barring a trade for another lefty I see the pen being Sorino, Moylan, Acosta, Ohman, Yates, Boyer and Bennett being the long man/6th starter.

As for the 4th and 5th starters in the rotation I believe Hampton comes though and Chucky in the 5th spot. Keep Jair and Jo-Jo down on the farm for when we will need them next year or heaven forbid one or more of the starters goes down. With Smoltz and Hampton they may be needed.

Lastly, my personal wish for the line up would be

Escobar Kotsay Chipper Tex Frenchy KJ McCann Diaz

I know a lot of you are not big on batting McCann down that low. But it can be a real struggle to get him home when he gets on base, costing us some runs. In the seventh position he could be our second clean up hitter for when Jeff and KJ get on base. I would say bat him 8th, but pitchers would just pitch around him to get to our pitcher.

Well that’s is my two cents.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

GO BIG BLUE! Big Blue on the frozen tundra next weekend for the right to get their a@@es handed to them by the Pats. Would have loved to see old man Favre ride off into the sunset by ending the Pats dream season but not when the old fella is standing in the way of the Giants. Favre is on a mission right now though and that Grant kid the Giants got rid of looks real good for the Pack. But I’m hoping for a repeat of the a@@whippings the Jints threw on the Vikes and Skins in the 1986 and 2000 conference championship games. I have a feeling it will end up like the 15-13 nail biter the Giants won over the Niners in the 1990 conference championship game though. If they are lucky enough to win, I’m kinda scared what Belichick will do to poor lil’ Eli in the Super Bowl with two weeks of preparation. That could get real ugly, real fast and make for a real long night.

By fastasballs

January 14, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

Howdy folks, how have ya been?

DOB Congrats on the Jayhawk victory over the Hokies. If our OC would have removed his head from you know where it may have been a different game.

Glad to see this place is still rocking even in the cold winter months. It’s not much longer people. I can almost smell it. No not the stinch, that’s the stale Muts fans hanging around. How about those Metro Chokers??????? LOL

I like the Kotsay move, well if he passes his physical. Good luck to Joey Devine. He was never going to make it in Atlanta.

Instead of the garbage bench players from last year the Braves will have a nice mix of vets & youth. Instead of Wilson, Orr & Woodless we will have Infante, Kotsay/Schaefer, Diaz/Jones & maybe Aybar. I feel better already.

The overall make up of the team is better than last season already & Wren may not be done. There is still a lot of offense to make up with the departure of AJ & Edgar, but the pitching & infield defense should be much improved.

At least the Cowboys lost today so I feel better. Who doesn’t want to see Favre make it back to the Super Bowl?

By Roman Gal

January 14, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

McFann, okay: Through August 2nd I figured that BigMac cost Frenchy 8 rbi’s, which is essentially what I figured it would be originally through that date.

I really don’t feel like doing the rest of the season mostly because I like McCann so much and I know that his ankle hurts him and I don’t like tearing apart one of my favorite players (one of eleven.) He was blessed with catcher’s speed and I think we’ll just leave it at that. (Just so you know, I’m not being snooty…but sometimes tone gets lost in the black and white.)

By Roman Gal

January 14, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

MetroMan

This is for You!

By Roman Gal

January 14, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

MetroMan

And This!

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 14, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

Personally , I’m rooting for a Patriots/Packers showdown in the Super Bowl. That would be one hell of a football game no matter who wins.

It looks like the the Braves are done with the outfield , rotation , infield and bench.

The bullpen depth chart is down a bit since Jose Ascanio and Joey Devine have apparently been traded.

That shouldn’t be a problem since the rotation is so deep , allowing for one of those projected starters to help out in the bullpen.

The Braves are apparently still looking for another hard throwing lefty relief pitcher. So stay tuned , Frank Wren might have another trade cooking.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 14, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this

Well, it appears my prediction of Scott Rolen being traded has come true. He is headed to Toronto for Tony Glaus. I bet the tension level in the St. Louis club house will drop 30 points.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 14, 2008 3:56 AM | Link to this

As for all the hand wringing and griping about Joey Devine , it’s just the typical knee jerk reaction of most casual fans.

I mean , are all you folks aware that the Braves had already lost 230 innings and 22 saves worth of bullpen pitching (44 percent of the 539 bullpen innings pitched) before this trade ?

I didn’t think so.

Wickman , Villearreal , Paronto , Mahay , Ascanio , McBride , Dotel , Ledezma , Colyer , Cormier and Devine are gone and believe it or not , it’s the typical turnover in a bullpen from season to season.

Bullpen’s are like the wind , they come and they go.

Still don’t believe me ? Check the roster stats from 2005. Twenty-six pitchers saw action from that group , there are six of those guys still with the Braves.

Hell , there are nine pitchers on the 40 man who have yet to throw a single pitch in an Atlanta Braves uniform yet.

Braves nation , just chill out , it’s all good. The Team is in great shape with plenty of depth everywhere.

By Nolie

January 14, 2008 4:21 AM | Link to this

I see that No Country For Old Men won the Globe for best picture. Day-Lewis won best actor in a drama for There Will Be Blood. Both are excellent movies and I won’t be disappointed if either one of them wins the Oscar, even if it too might end up being a news conference instead of an event this year.

By Mr. J

January 14, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

TexasBrave, Regarding the batting order in your 12:01 post: I posted a similar order yesterday morning, and I agree with your reasons for batting McCann 7th. But the same reasoning is why I’d have KJ batting in front of Francoeur at number 5. The same attributes which made KJ an effective leadoff last year (plate discipline, high OBP) can be used to set up the second half of the order. Yet this “second leadoff man” still has enough power to drive in runs and continue rallys that start in front of him.

By eware

January 14, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

DOB, you’ve got to post a picture of yourself on the blog. I would have liked to meet you at Fanfest, but I have no idea what you look like. Were you the guy talking to Frank Wren right after his Q&A session?

When are you having the Braves/MIB blog fanfest? It could be held at Six Feet Under.

By ncscoots

January 14, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

The Braves may indeed still be looking for LH relief, but you’d think they would also be looking for some RH pop on the bench, wouldn’t you? It’s a longshot that Javy has enough left, and it’s for sure that the likes of Infante, Aybar, and Diaz aren’t gonna scare any lefties late in the game.

But I don’t know where you would slot such a pickup, even were he to be found.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

eware, yes that was me talking to Frank after the Q&A

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Fastasballs, good to see you back….

Nolie, No Country didn’t win. Golden Globes don’t have a simple “Best Picture” like Oscars; they have best drama and best musical/comedy. “Atonement” won Globe for best drama, “Sweeney Todd” for musical/comedy.

I saw Atonement and can attest to its excellence. I would’ve chosen No Country, but Atonement is very good, not just an overhyped “chick flick” (though my girlfriend loved it, no question).

Still haven’t seen There Will be Blood or Sweeney Todd, but plan to see both in the next week, along with The Savages.

Philip Seymour Hoffman won’t get Oscar, probably, but man what an incredible year he’s had. I loved his work in Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead and Charlie Wlson’s War, and I hear he’s just as good in The Savages.

My list of best actors (under age 55), in no order:

Ed Norton

Denzel Washington

Sean Penn

Daniel Day-Lewis

Philip Seymour Hoffman

Ryan Gosling

Russell Crowe

Johnny Depp

By DAP

January 14, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

to me, unless the guy is a closer, relief pitchers are a dime a dozen, and unpredictable from year to year.

joey devine had good stuff, but he was years and years away from being a closer, if he’ll ever be one. i think this was a great trade.

i think we will be very happy with kotsay.

By Fred Secunda

January 14, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Given more thought to the bench situation DOB, I see where you’re coming from about the Braves not having five outfielders. I could see Aybar and Infante as the backup infielders, Javy as the backup catcher, and Jones and Thorman as the muscle off the bench. I think it’s safe to see we’ll be seeing a good bit of Josh Anderson though should Kotsay go on the DL.

Is it just me, or is this club starting to look like a contender? Now if the Mets could somehow not deal for Johan Santana….

By eware

January 14, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Shoot, I should have said hello to you then, DOB. Oh well, next time…

Also, have you heard the band Back Door Slam? They’re a blues band from England. Sounds pretty special - John Mayall with Clapton type stuff.

I dig the Kotsay trade. Though I liked him, Devine gave me the shakes every time he took the mound. I don’t think the big name players like Hunter, Rowand, etc would help this team. Its not about names - its about team chemistry, hard-work, and luck in the postseason (haha…seriously, though). I like our odds now.

By Thrillhouse44

January 14, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

T.O.’s tears doesn’t earn him a spot on your best actors list, DOB?

By ssiscribe

January 14, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens, on quite a frosty morning along the southern rim of the capital city …

Been AWOL from the blog — and really, from just about everything ‘Net related for the past week and a half or so. Busy with work and family and freelance and all that good stuff.

Didn’t go to FanFest as fate would have it, and I’m glad I didn’t. My kids were a little bummed when I told them we had a change of plans, but they had a bunch of fun at our alternate destinations this weekend, and we didn’t have to stand in line for five hours, either.

I don’t get into autographs, but from what I heard, it was just very crowded in there all the way around. Not exactly what my little guys would’ve enjoyed. They have much more fun roaming the stadium during BP.

I like the Kotsay deal, but I wonder if we’ll look back at Devine in two years and wish the Braves had kept him. He has great stuff; don’t know how much confidence management had in him, but the kid did everything you could ask for last season (1.80 ERA in the minors; 1-0 with a 1.08 ERA in 10 games at the big-league level; took the shuttling between the majors and minors without complaining).

IF Kotsay is healthy, it gives the Braves some real depth in center, allowing Anderson to start at Richmond and, most importantly, Schafer to start at Mississippi. With Hernandez in the system, too, the Braves have two super prospects and a solid third prospect (Anderson) playing center in the minors.

And it’s not like the Braves don’t already have a ton of hard-throwing right-handers to compete in the bullpen this spring. Again, if Kotsay is healthy, this ia a good deal. Here’s hoping his back is good, and he gets back to where he was: A fine player in his days with the Fish, Pads and early in his A’s days.

Time to run. DOB, belated Happy New Year wishes to you. See y’all around.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By nOLIE

January 14, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Nolie, No Country didn’t win. Golden Globes don’t have a simple “Best Picture” like Oscars; they have best drama and best musical/comedy. “Atonement” won Globe for best drama, “Sweeney Todd” for musical/comedy.DOB

yes I knew that Sweeney Todd won in Comedy/Musical. The original story that I read listed No Country in Drama, but it was the script that won for the Coens I now see. The article had it wrong. Haven’t seen Atonement, it’s not really my kind of movie and though I saw Sweeney Todd I’m not a big fan of musicals so I wasn’t blown away though the acting was first rate of course.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 14, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

I think Frank Wren should be commended for this trade. He was able to get the “stop gap” centerfielder the Braves needed without having to give up a lot. The Braves will only have to pay about $3.5 mil of his contract which is way cheaper than what they would have had to pay almost anybody else. He didn’t have to give up some potential big time players like Chuck James. Yes, Devine is gone and I think Devine is going to be a great pitcher but the Braves have depth in relievers. Quite honetly Devine needs a change of scenery.

I think with Kotsay in the fold it will initiate a competition between Blanco and Anderson for that other outfielder role or it may mean that both of them will start the season at Richmond. It also increases the possibility that B. Pena will be on the 25 man roster, which I think is a very good thing.

The Braves bench could be: Javy Lopez/Clint Sammons (whomever wins the backup battle), Omar Infante, Scott Thorman, Martin Prado/Wily Aybar, and B. Pena. I would think the loser of the Prado/Aybar battle could get traded. With B. Pena the Braves have a player who can be a third catcher along with being able to play 1B, 3B, and LF. The middle infield positions would be covered with Infante, who can also play all 3 outfield positions. Prado can play 2B and 3B while Aybar can play 1B, 2B, and 3B which may give him the edge over Prado. Scott Thorman can play 1B and LF. And, of course, Javy not only can catch but could play some 1B in a pinch.

It looks like the Braves bench is already better than last year’s and they have great depth at Richmond with both Blanco and Anderson down there. Not to mention another thing that could give Aybar the edge over Prado is that Prado still has an option left which means he could be sent down and provide some depth in the infield.

Honestly, I’m starting to like this team. I would like anoter solid veteran proven starter but a rotation of: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, and two of James/Hampton/Reyes/Jurrjens (sp?)/Bennett isn’t too bad. I would just like another solid starter wit Hampton’s injury history and Smoltz’s and Glavine’s age.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Thrillhouse, that T.O. performance had to move into his top five for most annoying moments — and it’s tough cracking his top five. Man, what an irritant he is on the sports landscape.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

People don’t like to give Brad Pitt credit but he’s a pretty good actor. Snatch, Kalifornia, True Romance, River Runs Through It, Legends of the Fall, Fight Club, Seven, Twelve Monkeys. His problem is he kind of stinks when he has to play normal people in traditional leading man roles.

Ed Norton’s problem is the man never works. I love the guy as an actor but come on man, get back to damn work already. Primal Fear, American History X, Rounders, Fight Club were ten freaking years ago already. The dude’s made about ten movies in the last 10 years. It’s easy to be remembered as a great actor when you do some great work early on and then barely ever work again. But Norton definitely belongs on that list DOB put out. I just wish he would do more movies.

By Lew

January 14, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

PBS was in fine form on Saturday night (at least here in Vermont). Austin City Limits was a Kings Of Leon show (excellent) and Roky Erikson (also excellent with Billy Gibbons as a guest on guitar). If that weren’t enough, SoundStage came on next and they had a homecoming concert in Gainsville, Fl with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (with Stevie Nicks). Another great show. Soimetimes cheap TV rules.

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

I missed the Globes last night. Heard it was about a 30 minute reading. I always wondered how long it’d take to do a Hollywood awards ceremony if they cut out all the fluff and filler. No Country for Old Men took Best Screen Play Motion Picture and Best Supporting Actor in a Motion Picture. Best Screen Play Motion Picture is about the only all-encompassing award the Globes have.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 14, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Yeah, DOB, that was something. What? You didn’t believe his tears were genuine? He sure does seem to have a fondness for Tony Romo. I wonder if that is because Romo is the only one who hasn’t told him to go to hell!?

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Robert (CIB): The Braves bench could be: Javy Lopez/Clint Sammons (whomever wins the backup battle), Omar Infante, Scott Thorman, Martin Prado/Wily Aybar, and B. Pena.

I don’t think this works. You left out the LF platoon. One of those guys takes up a bench spot. So instead of B. Pena it will be Diaz/Jones. Pena could possibly be in the mix for back up catcher, but I’d imagine after the run down last season he’s at the back of that list.

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

His problem is he kind of stinks when he has to play normal people in traditional leading man roles.

You’re not far off Braveheart. But I think Pitt did a good job in Babel.

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Braveheart: Norton has done quite a few movies lately. They just aren’t that good over all. Or at least, he wasn’t all that impressive in them. I first started reading that and thought you were joking about how he isn’t working hard at doing a good job in his films like he did early in his career. But then… Well. Put it this way, he has 4 films coming out in the next 2 years and he’s done 11 films since Fight Club (1999) none of which have been all that epic in his performance.

By Overlord

January 14, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I think braves just got tired of waiting and waiting for talent to show good numbers as they did get tired of kyle, they just couldnt wait anymore for devine to show his talent. And if chuck does not shows something real quick he will join them. I mean, chances are given, cant wait forever, Thats how it works.

Maybe braves should have waited more to get rid of devine, but we have to admit that this team is now more solid than before the trade (if Kotsay plays at least 130 games that is).

Devine was just a possibility in the bullpen. And he was meant for 8th or 9th innings, which we have covered already. With one of those guys that are competing for SP job turned into a long reliever at least for 2008, the bullpen looks really solid, so does our OF.

We will regret this move sometime before the decade is over, but for 2008 it is a fair move. I prefer a champion in 2008 than hope for years to come.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 14, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

10Paul, you are absolutely right. I forgot about B. Jones/Diaz. In that case I would say Thorman and B. Pena would battle for the 1B backup with Thorman being shopped in a trade.

By Bryan

January 14, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

TenPaul,

I too have been p** at norton … the one two punch of American History X and Fight Club … i thought we are looking at one of the BEST actors over the next ten years or so…

But then came a string of lame movies … top of the list - Italian job.

I have heard that he was contracted to do some of these crappy movies before he broke (like Italian Job) … but still … and lets not talk about Death to Smoochie! (though it has a special place in my heart!)

Hey, i have been watching the Flaming Lips Doc. The Fearless Freaks … i would highly recommend this movie - even to people that don’t like the lips so much - its a great human story - its about death, drugs, and the fight for creativity in the midst of all of that … it is above and beyond any other band Doc (thinking of Wilco and Radiohead here). This is not a concert DVD like Last Waltz … but a heart wrenching story of the band …

By dgd

January 14, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

I’m OK with the trade, but only time will tell how it works out. Backs are tricky and Kotsay could be fine now and then down with spasms come May. The talk of adding a class “A” player to the deal makes me a bit nervous. Remember with the Tex deal where every time it was reported there was another minor leaguer the Braves were adding……

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Kotsay’s having his physical now, Braves aren’t expected to make announcement until at least 3 p.m.

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Braveheart/DOB: Now that I see the list you were referring to I gotta say I’m surprised Gary Oldman wasn’t listed. He does a fantastic job in every movie. Most of the time you do a double take and say, “is that Gary Oldman?” because he changes himself so well, voice (Norton always sounds like Ed Norton) and appearance and Oldman just performs the roll so well. He turns 50 this year. I’d replace Norton with Oldman on that list. There might be another change in there as well, but the Oldman/Norton change is the prominant one to me.

By Bryan

January 14, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Outtake From No Country For Old Men:

“What you got ain’t nothing new. This country’s hard on people. Look at ol Dale Murphy playin in Atlanta right now… MVP last year, MVP this year I reckon, 30-30 man. And just because a bunch of knuckle heads are going to roid up after he retires, he will join Roger Marris as the only 2 time MVP not in the Hall… hell, what you got ain’t nothing new”

By McFann

January 14, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

Thanks for stopping. When I posted that “assignment”, I didn’t really think anyone would have it in them to take me up on it. What you said in your second paragraph was appreciated. What you said about his ankle and his being blessed with catcher’s speed was extremely accurate. Ever since he was a little kid, he couldn’t run, from what I understand. I heard Boog talking about it one time on TV. He said he had talked to Brian about how he started out as a second baseman. Boog asked him what kind of a second baseman he made, and Brian replied, “I didn’t get to many balls.”

I don’t think you were “tearing him apart”, per se, but anyway, I’m glad you stopped. I despised that stupid conversation about him costing Francoeur RBIs. I would have kept myself out of it, but I couldn’t stand those nuts tearing him apart for his inabilities.

Yeah, he was born to be a catcher, and I’m sure glad for that. (Except when there’s a play at the plate. Those things totally freak me out!!)

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Barry Pepper is pretty underrated as an actor. He is somewhat limited but he always makes the movies he is in much better than they really are. I think he made 61, that dopey Dale Earnhardt ESPN movie, 25th hour, Saving Private Ryan, and even Flags of Our Fathers a little better than those movies really were.

The Score was a movie that disappointed. Brando, Deniro, Norton, Angela Bassett. I though that movie was gonna be much better. How could a movie with actors like that not be better? Maybe it wasn’t that bad and i was expecting too much out of it and it ruined my enjoyment of the movie.

Gosling’s emergence has been shocking to me. I didn’t like that guy when he was first coming along but his recent work has been really great and has made me go back and check out some of his earlier stuff I didn’t like initially and I have gained some newfound appreciation for that stuff as well.

By JT

January 14, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Great News DOB!!!!!!!

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Robert (CIB): I forgot about a 1B back up option for Pena. But even there I’d imagine he’d have a tougher time winning it being that his defense at 1B couldn’t be as good as Thorman’s and I think Thorman has more power potential. If Pena does well in Spring then he could be good trade bait for a reliever or some more minor league restocking. He’s a good switch hitter that can man multiple positions.

By N8

January 14, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

What’s that? You don’t “buy” T.O.’s sobbing after that game? LOL!

What an azz.

I think the best thing about the whole Giants/Cowboys game was Strahan making a comment about T.O. having his popcorn ready next week, while watching the Giants face the Packers.

Priceless. You gotta love Michael Strahan.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Great call on Gary Oldman 10Paul. That dude is awesome. He totally gets lost in character. That run he had in the 1990s starting with State of Grace was phenomenal. State of Grace is probably my favorite movie of all time. It’s hard not to love a good Westies flick. I wanted that Black Donnellys television show last year to be better but it wasn’t. It should have been. A great concept ruined by network execs who wanted to do a gangster show with 90210 type characters and looking actors. It would have been done much better on cable, and especially HBO.

I remember watching Carlito’s Way the first time and I didn’t even realize Sean Penn was in the movie because he was so good in it.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

You gotta love Michael Strahan.

N8 His ex-wife didn’t love Michael Strahan. She just loved his money.

By gobraves

January 14, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DOB what have you heard about the fanfest? Did you like it? I d it.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

FIrst question for DOB to ask at the Kotsay press conference:

Mark, when you were taking the physical today, did you think it was necessary for the doctor to have you turn your head and cough?

Has anyone ever figured out why doctors subject us to that?

By jb

January 14, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Not sure if Kotsay is a good stop gap. His back is a concern, and his numbers are probably on the decline. The Braves would likely get similar numbers from G. Blanco (a little less power with Blanco, however.) It smacks too much or Woodward and Wilson last year. An experienced poor hitter is probably what the Braves acquired. He will take a spot on the roster that a young kid deserves. How long did Escobar stay in the minors with Woodward and Orr as inadequate replacements for an injured Chipper & stinking up the Bench? That is likely how long Kotsay’s inadequate offense will stick around while a promising youngster stays in the minor. Only giving up Devine and Oakland eating much of the salary, are the only reasons it may make since. I also fear the Braves may now try to part with Diaz with the outfield depth. If they do, it is pretty much replacing Diaz’s offensive numbers with Kotsay’s. How does that improve the Braves lineup. Hopefully, Kotsay will not pass the physical.

By David-ATL14

January 14, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

One of the finest acting jobs in recent memory was Gary Oldham in the movie “Professional.”

Played a rogue cop. Fine acting job by a young Natalie Portman also.

I believe the movie came out in 1994.

Movie was solid not great, but Oldham was exceptional.

They tried to get Oldham for the villian role in the upcoming season of 24 if the writers strike ever ends.

Unfortunately he turned it down.

By Lee in S. GA

January 14, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Chiming in . Gary Oldman is a great actor and T.O. is not; however, being a true Cowboy fan I pull for the team and not the players on the team. I would have not been a Braves fan when Sheffield was on the team if that was the case. The loss was tough for me as a true Cowboy fan. Randy Moss is just as bad a jerk as Owens is and now he is going to be on a winning Super Bowl team. If the Chargers were to knock off the Patriots it would be the biggest upset in sports history.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

David-ATL, fully agree on Oldham. Great actor. How ‘bout his part in True Romance? Menacing.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 14, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Lee, Moss is nowhere near the jerk TO is. Moss has never called his quartback “gay” or thrown his quarterbacks under the bus. Moss has never been seen as a bad teammate. Moss has his issues but is nowhere near the level of TO.

That crying crap last night was nothing more than an attention ploy to place all the attention on him. And, it worked. You would never see Randy Moss rolling out the crocodile tears and making the loss all about him.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Braves’ Triple-A team moving from Richmond to Gwinnett County. How nice will that be for local fans, to be able to see some guys right before they’re called up?

(Not to mention how much it’ll save in apartment rentals and flights back and forth between Triple-A and the majors).

I just posted a story, should be going up soon. Braves haven’t announced it yet and won’t confirm it, but it’s happening, probably in 2009.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, just got up to your Oldman post. Yes, agreed. He belongs. Wouldn’t move out Norton though. Just add Oldman.

By the way, just remembered his turn as Sid Vicious in Sid and Nancy. Stellar.

And he was great in JFK, Henry and June, and another great movie that didn’t do much box office, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

gobraves, did I “like” fanfest? I’m not in position to judge, since I was there just to interview a few players and some fans. I will say the lines were unbelievably long, much longer than I could’ve withstood.

The fans I talked to liked the interactive stuff, etc. But I didn’t wait around to talk to any who went through one of those loooong lines. The Braves need to change that part of it next year, but I know it’s difficult to come up with a workable solution.

Hey, if they were the Marlins there’d be no lines. So I guess it’s a bit of a Catch-22. But the “treasure hunt” idea they came up for autographs, where fans didn’t know whose signature they were gonna get until they got to the front of the line — no. No, no, no.

By DAP

January 14, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

jb An experienced poor hitter is probably what the Braves acquired.

theres really no evidence of that. at worst, the braves got a good hitter who is hurt. if he passes the physical, i think he will play a full season (145 games or so) and get similar stats to his career numbers BA between .270 and .280, OBP around .330, slugging% around .410, with about 15 HR’s and 65 RBIs. this isnt spectacular, but its very solid, and i think its better than we could expect for a rookie, plus we get veteran experience on a very young team.

if were lucky, he will have a career year in his contract year.

again, the only concern i would have is health, and if he passes the physical today, we should have every confidence he will play a full season.

By wowbobwow

January 14, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Will Oldham was in True Romance?

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Clever. I’ll admit you had me going. I had to look it up. Could I have been that off all these years? Was the man that surprised me most in the Fifth Element, the Professional, True Romance, Harry Potter, Batman Begins, Immortal Beloved and many others really “Oldham” or “Oldman”.
It was Oldman. But Oldham is pretty funny.

By Lee in S. GA

January 14, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Who is Gary Oldham?

By Scottie

January 14, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

DOB

at what hour is Kotsay’s announcement going to be????????

By beachcomber

January 14, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

DOB - Had to post and run yesterday - concert by an artist too old for anybody on this blog to remember.

That being said - EXCUSE ME! Wow, I didn’t think an off hand remark would offend you so. I really like Kotsay. I also have dealt with a back injury the majority of my life. They are, as someone else here gently said “tricky.” Naturally, I hope the guy does great but still hate to give up young pitching.

Lew - Caught your email and will send a reply later in a busy day.

By Bryan

January 14, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Poor Joey Devine … he was the one last year who would have benefited from the AAA move to Gwinnett the most . . . i bet he had more time on the road between the A and the R than most bands …

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

wowbobwow: Yes. He was Alabama’s pimp. That’s how much he can change himself for the movie character. He can do True Romance and a Year later do Immortal Beloved and you wouldn’t even know it was the same guy. Looks different, acts different, sounds different and speaks different.

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

dagnabit. Got me again. Will Oldham is not in True Romance. Gary Oldman is though.

By Braveheart

January 14, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout his part in True Romance? Menacing.

Oh, yeah, Oldman was great in that part. “Y’know what we got here? Mothereffin’ Charlie Bronson.” “He must have thought it was white boy day. It ain’t white boy day, is it?”

Great news on the move to Gwinnett County. But if you thought us bloggers were annoying before wait until we all actually watch those minor leaguers all the time. We’ll all be intolerable with how much we pretend to be GMs.

By Jared

January 14, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Braves, officially the ‘stupid team’:

“Kotsay has spent a majority of his career hitting in either of the top two spots of the batting order and this year should be no different. My early guess is that he’ll man one of those two spots with Yunel Escobar and that Kelly Johnson will bat seventh or eighth.

Some believe Escobar would be a solid run producer in the middle of the lineup. You can’t argue that. But at the same time, you can’t dispute the value he brought while hitting .351 with a .400 on-base percentage in 34 games as the leadoff hitter last year.

The Braves don’t have the speed demon that teams like to put at the top of their lineup. But with Escobar and Kotsay, who owns a .337 career on-base percentage, they have two guys who can provide regular run-producing opportunities for Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira.

Johnson produced a .372 on-base percentage in 76 games as the leadoff hitter last year and might have at least shared that role with Escobar if Kotsay hadn’t arrived. But my guess is that the Braves will put him in the eighth spot with the hope that he’ll get on base consistently and give pitchers numerous sacrifice opportunities.”

By David-ATL14

January 14, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Yeah DOB good call

Drexel Spivey in True Romance

and Lt. Norman Stansfield in Professional or it’s European title”Leon”.

Only wish he had accepted the villian character in 24. Our loss.

Mr Oldman is indeed a * Master Thespian*.

By SeattleBravesFan

January 14, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

christian bale is on my list…just watched a bit of american history x last night, brutal movie and edward norton was good in that…

By dgd

January 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Wow—The Braves leaving Richmond is huge. Great for logistics, but what about the history of the ties there? Lots of people in Richmond are big Braves fans and it’s because of the long-standing minor league connection. Between TBS dropping Braves games and this move, seems the Braves fan base is going to shrink quite a bit as time goes on (don’t think too many people in Gwinett county who weren’t already fans are going to convert because of the move). Of course, money is the motivation, as with everything. I thought Richmond was going to build a new “Diamond” for the Braves. What a shame……

By KJ

January 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

coach, I am not a casual fan. I follow the game as much I can, although I am too busy to follow the minors as much as I would like. But I don’t like the trade because devine had a 1.08 ERA in Atlanat and a 1.64 ERA in Richmond. While Yates had an ERA of 5.18. I am glad we found an affordable CF with great defense. I just think the pen is weaker now. I don’t like relying on Yates. Would rather have Devine over him.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

who’s Gary Oldham?

Ohhhh…Gary Oldman. right, great actor. whether you’re a harry potter fan or not, he’s terrific as Sirius Black.

By Ray

January 14, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

apparently there’s rumblings that Medlin is the Class A pitcher included in the deal. all i know he’s a power arm. any info on this guy??

By TennesseePaul

January 14, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

KJ: Shipping Yates instead of Devine would have been devine. All this talk about Yates “stuff” over looks his other stuff… namely his stats and they aren’t that impressive. But of course, the response is “he was over used”. I don’t see that being rectified. If he’s in the pen he’ll be over-used. It’s the nature of the beast. Cox sticks to a strict line of 100 pitches for starters he likes, 80 pitches or less for starters he doesn’t trust all that well and then every night if possible for the reliever with “stuff”. This is what worries me about Soriano as the closer. I could see him being brilliant all the way up until July and then burning out right when every other team catches fire. Thankfully we still have Moylan.

I was pleased to read about McCann’s off season workouts. The Yoga should help him a lot. Rickey Henderson always said his longevity in the game came from his stretching. I think some players over look that part of exercise and focus mainly on the weights.

By David O'Brien

January 14, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

By nOLIE

January 14, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

I liked Romeo Is Bleeding with Oldman. Not a great movie but Lena Olin was one of the nastiest villainesses in the movies IMO.

By NorthBeach Scott

January 14, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

KJ Devine’s ERA did look good, but I would be cautious in placing too much emphasis on relievers’ ERAs as 8 perfect outings can be ruined by 1 bad one. While Devine may yet show some upside (the A’s are gambling on this) we can use Kotsay now and had no immediate use for Devine. It was never going to happen for Devine in Atlanta as he seemed to be in the doghouse with Cox.

Regarding Yates, he was overused and tired by the last two months of 07. When he is on, his 95-98 mph heater and vicious slider make his upside very attractive if used properly. Also, Yates is out of options and while he has limited trade value, there are more than a few teams that would take him on waivers.

By Jared

January 14, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, you’ve got to post a picture of yourself on the blog. I would have liked to meet you at Fanfest, but I have no idea what you look like. Were you the guy talking to Frank Wren right after his Q&A session?

It’s been posted before, but here is a picture of David O’Brien:

DOB Photo

By Thrillhouse44

January 14, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

ESPN Radio just said the Yankees pulled out of the Santana talks. Who’s left besides the Mets?

By A.J.

January 14, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

I think the move to Gwinnett is kind of cold by the Braves. I know the stadium situation was rough, and it’s not up to the Braves to keep up the stadium there, but dangit, i’m like a year from moving to freakin Richmond.

Aside from my own extreme—and I mean huge—disappointment, it does suck for them to take the R-Braves away from fans who have had them for 41 years to give them to people who can go see the actual Braves.

Plus, it just doesn’t make much sense attendence-wise. (Yes I know it will be logistically easier, but if things are going well we shouldn’t have people shuttling back and forth all the time anyway, and those trips aren’t any worse than any other trip these guys make.)

But, as much as I would love to go watch some AAA ball, I’d still spend my money one Braves game over even 2 or 3 AAA games.

For example, I would love to go watch the Gwinnett Gladiators, but when I’m in the town where I can occasionally go watch the Thrashers, it just isn’t urgent, even though the Gladiators are closer and cheaper.

Whereas, leave the R-Braves in Richmond (shoot, move the Gladiators there too) and a year from now I’ll blowing way more money on tickets than I and my soon-to-be wife could ever afford.

By mo in the boonies

January 14, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Lew We actually had grass showing last week, but then Thursday night we got another blizzard, a ice storm yesterday, and today another blizzard, and we are back to a lot of snow now, trees are hanging low with it. Plow guy hasn’t shown up yet either, and we have a long lane that needs plowing along with our drive. Last winter we didn’t even get any amount of snow until Feb. dumb weather.

Roman Gal I always thought that McCann felt more comfortable batting behind Frenchy, he just seemed to me to hit better that way…haven’t bothered to check the stats to verify that though. Too bad Cox can’t forget the righty-lefty stuff, and leave the lineup alone for a while and see what works better. Perhaps McCann worries about not being fast enough in front of Frenchy, when he bats that way in the lineup.

I’m still waiting to see who the class A pitcher not named yet is going to be in the Kotsay trade.