Braves

By cricket

January 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

1st?? india is giving real fight to australia in the cricket match, life is good. can’t wait for the baseball season to start.

By brian

January 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

first?

By 22oz

January 4, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Someone should tell Francoeur that he should just use HGH. That’ll give him more time to do other things.

By NCBravesFan

January 4, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Great blog DOB. Sure am glad the cold is starting to ease up a bit!

I love what Francouer has been able to do in such a short period of time. It was good to see him focus on being more patient at the plate and he had a lot more quality ABs as a result last year.

It would have been nice if he had been a little more aggressive at the plate in some situations last year, especially since Andruw Jones wasn’t picking up the slack. Singles to right are good, but sometimes the #5 guy needs to pick a spot to drive pitches when runners are on.

My guess is that’s part of the learning process and he’s gonna have a monster season this year.

By brian

January 4, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Congrats on the big Kansas win last night.

Just a question - do you think that signing a big multi-year, multi-million dollar contract will take pressure off of Frenchy or will it add to the pressure to perform? It seems to me Francoeur is as hard on himself as anyone else. If he hits a slump and has the big contract, I would wonder if he would try “too hard” to right things and start pressing

By Thrillhouse44

January 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Just tell Francoeur to stay away from supplements provided by McNamee. Have you seen Francoeur this offseason? How successful has he been adding muscle?

By brian

January 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

cricket you beat me

By Anders

January 4, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

DOB

(As if falling short in most offensive categories when compared to one of the very best young players in the game is somehow terrible for Francoeur. Wright finished fourth in the MVP balloting; how many players, period, are on a level with Wright? The vast majority fall short, whether veteran players or kids.)

Thanks DOB, was it good for you too? Anyone got a cigarette?

By NorthBeachScott

January 4, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

DOB Care to share any more of the 2005 perspective on McCann, Salty, Marte, KJ, and Boyer. I suspect that it will demonstrate just how difficult it is to project, especially in Marte’s case. Thanks and Happy New Year!

By cricket

January 4, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

brian, yes, I did, sorry brother. but i must say i used only B12 shots to get the 1st post in. abt frenchy, other than all the points mentioned above, i think his output will also be affected by his position in the lineup and the hitters hitting before and after him. As of now, looks like he will start hitting before McCann and may drop behind him based on how McCann does.

By JMar

January 4, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness Hampton won’t be at the FanFest. I’d hate for him to blow out his elbow signing autographs.

By Jeff

January 4, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

I like Francoeur if he’s hitting sixth. He seems to pile up numbers without winning games.

By Erik

January 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

I find all of this “Francoeur was born to lead” stuff kind of funny. In his senior year of high school, he didn’t bother to run for class president. A skinny computer nerd named Dan Tippetts won instead. Runner-up? Katie McCoy, the future Mrs. Francoeur.

But a sports team? Sure. He’s a leader all right.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 4, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur will be 24 next week (Jan. 8th) and he already has a gold glove , two one hundred RBI seasons and his picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

The young man has done his iron man thing since October 1st 2005 (326 straight games and counting). It is simply amazing what he has accomplished so far. We are lucky to have him and Frenchy will be a fixture in RF for many more seasons in Atlanta.

By Marvin

January 4, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

You mean none of those effervescent Disney employees are hot babes?

By McFann

January 4, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

I vote Francoeur hits sixth. (McCann fifth, of course.) About his contract, yeah, that should be int’resting. The Braves tried to give him one last year, but Jeff’s agent wanted more money (then McCann got??). We’ll see what happens. Personally, I’d sign Johnson before I’d sign Francoeur, for two reasons:

1) He walks a lot more, he’s more patient, and

2) He’s my sister’s favorite player.

Plus, IDK, Francoeur tends to get on my nerves. I don’t why. Maybe it’s ‘cause every talks about “how great” he is. Psh!! Whatever.

DOB, you still haven’t told me why you think I was acting like the lost son of the Brady Bunch. I can’t stop unless you tell me…

By JJean

January 4, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Not only is Francoeur a talented young man but very courteous person also. Whenever he comes to his childhood ball field and all the kids gather around he takes the time to talk to them and sign their balls or shirts and always has that wonderful smile. He melt even the grandmothers hearts.

By Savannah Guy

January 4, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness Hampton won’t be at the FanFest. I’d hate for him to blow out his elbow signing autographs.

That’s funny.

By JC FROM UT

January 4, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

DOB: Have there been any wispers of a long term contract for JF? Also what do you think about MLBTraderumors remark that if the A’s chipped in about 3 million the Braves may have some interest if they had to only give up a fringe prospect.

By flange1

January 4, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB,

1. Thanks for the new blog.
2. You are TOTALLY correct on Westerberg. I forget to play his solo stuff or the ‘Mats for awhile, then I put one on and get addicted all over again. Still miss seeing the original guys play live. Saw them in total 14 times but only 6 with big Bob on lead. 2 of those shows were drunken messes, the other 4 were totally killer…

3. Agree on Frenchy. I think he will move it up another notch in 08. If McCann can improve as well and Tex can have a typical Tex year, it will go along way to replacing AJ and Rent..

4. On the last blog, you mentioned that the Braves would still get another CF. 2 questions:

5. WHO?????

6. Will they keep 4 OF or 5?

Thanks!

By cricket

January 4, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

McFann, i bet nobody here is surprised that you want frenchy to bat after McCann and i think the order of these 2 guys in the lineup will change multiple times during the season. Anyway, when McCann is not catching, frenchy will bat 5th. BTW, i like KJ but frenchy should not even be compared to him. he is and will prove to be a much better player.

here’s a profile of McNamee

By Admiral Tom Glavine

January 4, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Note To Jeff Francoeur:

I know David Wright, I served with David Wright and you sir are no David Wright.

By Savannah Guy

January 4, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 036)

Mr. Fly’s off-season vacation in sunny central Florida was rudely interrupted by snow. That’s right, snow! It got so cold in the groves that all of his little orange blossom buddies disappeared. The horrors! No reason to stay there.

So, being a sleuth reporter, Mr. Fly decided to stay inside and do some work on hot-stove matters but was intrigued by the global warming talk. Mr. Fly knows about climate change. He once hitched a ride to Kyoto with some friends who, due to national security, cannot be named. It was a one-sided affair. Fly then sifted through many scientific articles. Anyway, he filed this report to clear up some popular misconceptions:

An Inconvenient Sleuth

Humans really are funny. They are so predictable, gullible and devious at the same time. They’ll go to any extreme to convince their masses of something when it benefits their eco-socio-political agenda.

The masses in turn, go to every extreme to convince each other and themselves that they know the truth about a very complex issue when they really just want to belong to a group. Makes ‘em feel safer. Makes ‘em feel smarter too. Many flies do that, but it’s usually around food. Food makes better sense than arguing about global warming, right?

Global warming is not about politics. It’s not about social engineering or socialism. It’s not about science. It’s not about economics. It’s not about religion. It’s not about redistribution of wealth or reducing CIA funds and reallocating those funds to global warming groups at a time when international intelligence needs all the help it can get to fight terrorism. No, it’s not any of these. It’s actually about all of these things.

The earth is in a warming trend. That is an undisputed fact. Unfortunately that fact has been twisted and usurped for a multitude of reasons by those who want you to think that humans are the cause of it. They stand to gain by that misinformation.

My human friends, climate change should not be a political subject. We should have a non-controversial and scientific/historical understanding of climate change throughout history…and focus on what we might do to be more comfortable and productive during this natural, cyclical phenomenon.

Did you realize that solar flares and eruptions on the sun can cause the earth to warm? Yepper. It has, many times.

The same “scientists” (which are not climatologists) that are wringing hands about the sky falling are the very same bunch that tried to divert funds to their own organizations several decades ago by announcing an ice age.

Of course, that didn’t happen and their ploy didn’t work. If we buy into the nonsense of man’s influence on climate change, we waste time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification.

This inconvenient (unfortunate) sham is a harmful diversion to true environmentalists that want clean air, water and soil. Global warming overshadows all of the good work some groups are doing in those areas. Kyoto accords are designed to punish America by insisting they cover the majority of costs to clean up the world. Massive redistribution of wealth and power would appease them it seems.

As always in the modern world, America is blamed for and expected to pay for everything. By the way, that’s not politics, just world news…if you follow that sort of thing.

So, my all too-human friends, before you contemplate joining the Gore Church of global warming, sell your coats and join in a chorus with the carbon credit crowd, just remember…the Inconvenient Truth had zero climatologists willing to perpetuate the myth. Just hacks looking for political or Hollywood connections and funding for their own dubious research groups.

There is much to read on the subject for those that don’t profess to already have the complex answers that elude even leading scientists and climatologists. Before joining in the fray with people that believe humans cause climate change, take a few minutes to educate yourself.

There are many articles and scientific reports on the subject. Check it out. It’s not as much fun or as rewarding as researching baseball stats but this stuff is good to know.

Since I’ve done some detective work over the years, being a sleuth Fly and all…I have an earth-shattering, non-scientific climate prediction for you. Within a few days after the coming elections in November, if Republicans win the presidency and regain a majority in both houses, there will be a turnaround in global warming, a gradual cooling of the earth and a migration of pseudo-scientists to other, more lucrative research.

The media won’t report that change in climate. Kyoto will become just another great city to eat sushi, watch the Hanshin Tigers play baseball and have a beer at the Fenway Park public bar (Big Bosox fans there).

No crystal ball or weird science, just a little common-fly sense and multi-faceted eyes that see through the fog of propaganda. This is not about politics…just a little weather related opine from a fly. That’s all.

Brrrr…looking forward to a little global warming this spring.

By Lauren T.

January 4, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Any word on if Peter Moylan will be there? That’s pretty much the deal-breaker for me — if he’s in, I am too. :)

By N8

January 4, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

43rd?

Maybe if Frenchy wants to muscle up, he could get an injection of Lidocaine and B-12. It seems to have done WONDERS for Roger Bonds….er…McGwire…..er….Clemens’ career.

Anything LESS than 20-25 pounds of pure muscle being added by Francoeur this off-season, will be a disappointment. Both Andy Pettitte and myself, will then be forced to question his “committment” to his teammates.

Prediction: With the right training, and right ammount of vitamins being shot into his azz, Francoeur should be able to break David Wright’s HR record (what? You think Barroid is gonna hang onto it for long?), by summer of 2015. Yup. You heard it hear first. David Wright is gonna average 94 HR per season over the next 7 or 8 years, which not only will gain him the HR Crown, but it will have cost Francoeur a few MVP’s along the way. Though it’s hard to complain about a guy averaging 80 HR per season, and finishing secong.

WOW! What a couple of players the Mutz and Bravos have, huh?

OK. In all honesty. I’m very pleased with Francoeur’s “advancement” in batting average, and gaining a Gold Glove in his 2nd full season. The power numbers? Forget about it. If he is focused on being a better hitter, the power numbers will follow, and if they don’t? Who frickin cares? I’ll take a guy that does what Nomar does, any day of the week.

L8r.

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 4, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

The only thing bad about living in Tampa is my house is less than one mile from the Yankees training facility. Crap.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Lauren, no — for obvious reasons (Australia).

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Erik, you base leadership of a pro sports team on whether a player ran for class president in high school?

Don’t know where you went to school, but at my high school the top male athletes weren’t usually candidates for student council or class prez or whatever….

Flange, not sure yet whether it’ll be four or five outfielders. That’ll depend, I’d imagine, on whether they get another CF….

As for Kotsay, if the A’s kicked in $3-4 mill, I could see Braves having interest, maybe. Wren knows what a great clubhouse guy Kotsay is, and when healthy he’s a good hitter with a little pop and still a well-above-average defensive player.

However, he’s also a left-handed hitter, same as Anderson and Schafer. So unless you’re talking about him playing every day, doesn’t make much sense. And with his chronic back problems, don’t know how Braves could count on him playing ever day.

They’d still be paying him $4-5 mill even if A’s covered about $3 mill or more.

By AdirondackDave

January 4, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

JC from UT — Could you explain what player you are talking about in the traderumors thing with the A’s? I’m a little confused… nothing new there.

By hk

January 4, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

… Daily Blog Entry totals (bar graph) for the Braves Blog and Braves & Stuff …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/brvstuff.htm

By armesjr

January 4, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

I think this is the year everything comes together for Francoeur, and he takes his game to the next level. He made significant strides at the plate with his discipline, which i feel resulted in a lot of clutch hits. If a certain former Braves player, could have understood the concept of “plate discipline”, no telling how last season would have turned out. If McCann is totally healthy, and plays like he did in 2006, we will have a pretty solid lineup. Cant wait till March 31st when the Braves dominated the Nationals in their new park. I will be there.

By TexasBrave

January 4, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Is Frenchy beefing up really going to help his HR numbers a whole heck of a lot? I don’t recall too many of his shots falling short because he lacked muscle. It was his increased plate discipline that caused a short fall in his power numbers. Too me I would much rather him focus on hitting to all fields, thus more plate discipline and cut down on his strike outs.

As for the batting lineup I would much rather Bobby stick with one lineup with French batting 5th and McCann either hitting 6th or 7th depending on whether KJ is batting up or down in the lineup.

I know Brian is a hitting machine but once he gets on base he is slow a foot and it takes bigger or more hits to get him in, that can kill some rallies. He only crossed the plate 51 times, (18 via his own HR) while batting 5th or 6th most of the season meaning once he gets on base it is fairly difficult to drive him in. Batting him behind Frenchy and KJ will allow him to still drive in runs extending rallies. I wouldn’t be opposed to batting him eight if one of the unknown starters that would hit in front of him has a high OBP i.e. Diaz, B. Jones or Anderson. McCann would be like our second clean-up guy with the pitcher batting behind him to bunt him over.

I know this will cut down on his at bats, but it would also save his legs some also. Again it depends on whether KJ bats up or down in the lineup and who the starters are in CF and LF as to whether to hit him 6th thru 8th. But I really believe this approach will end up producing more runs and saving Brian’s legs in the long run.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Braves Spring Training schedule is out!! First game is February 27 against them DAWGS. That should be fun. To bad it won’t be on TV and most likely won’t be on radio. I missed last year’s mach-up against Tech. All I know is that the Braves won. I like Tech, but when it all comes down, the Braves are first on my sports list. (Which is only two teams, so really…)

Man. That was the longest any picture of McCann was up on AJC. A whole week!! Dang. But of course, gotta have Francoeur up there. : P

Yeah, Cricket, McCann will bat fifth against righties, Francoeur will bat fifth ‘gainst lefties…that is, if all goes well with you know you. Francoeur better than…just remember who spent 2006 on the bench and still came back to hit…whatever he hit!! .272? I forget. .276!! That’s it. And he wasn’t too far behind “Frenchy” in HRs, either, my friend. But I’m stickin’ to backin’ up McCann’s playing abilities if y’all don’t mind. Course, if somebody says that “So-in-so is better than so-in-so,” I’ll deny it if it ain’t true.

By DonCoburleone

January 4, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

I think Mark Kotsay is a perfect solution to the “stop gap” problem we have in center-field right now. It would be strictly a 1 year investment, wouldn’t really cost anything but money, and he has potential to be significantly better in 2008 than Anderson or Schafer. Sure he’s an injury risk, but you have to take chances when you are a team that is ready to win now. If we could get Kotsay plus $3 mil for, say, Martin Prado, wouldn’t that be a no-brainer?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

January 4, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

DOB Begrudgingly I must offer you congratulations for the Jay Hawks’ victory over Va Tech last night. Except for the end results, it was really one of the better bowl games this year.

No use going into the could have, should have, would have because it won’t change a thing. But I will doff my hat to the Kansas defense because they made the difference.

Now baseball….. All the predictions and speculations about young ball players make you wonder some times, what were they thinking??? I have pointed it out before, you want the club to have a lot invested in you because you are given a much greater opportunity to fail.

That said, looks like batting .500 when predicting which guys are going to help the big club is not a bad average.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 4, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Yes. Brandon Jones , Josh Anderson , Gregor Blanco , Jordan Schafer and Doug Clark are all left handed bats.

Frenchy and Diaz swing from the right side and are the only two returning veterans in the outfield.

Joe Borchard switch hits , but he isn’t really considered anything more than depth destined to start the season in Richmond.

This is going to sound all wrong , but it’s a reality. Replacing Andruw’s defense will be easier than supplanting his offense.

It is evident , the Braves are in the market for a defensively sound veteran right handed bat in CF.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, you raise a fairly valid point. I’d rather have McCann drive in runs than bat fifth. My only beef would be that if he did bat low in the order, he’d be behind guys who didn’t get on base as much. Then I remember: we don’t have the A half of Jones anymore. If our other starters were Johnson, Escobar, Chipper, Tex, Diaz, Francoeur, and whoever in CF, then chances are, there’d be somebody on base even if McCann did bat eighth. I have to be open-minded and honest here. But it all depends on who’s in center. Perhaps the line-up should be:

1. KJ

2: YE

3: CJ

4: MT

5: MD

6: JF

7: B-Mac

8: That guy in center

That’s IMO. But of course, it all comes down to this:

Bobby Cox makes the line-up cards.

By KC

January 4, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

BREAKING NEWS…

All of the New Hampshire Primary votes have been awarded to David Wright.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

BTW, Erik, Katie is already Mrs. Francoeur. They got married on Nov. 3. Gee wiz, I thought all of you guys knew all the inside scoop on Jeff. Besides, they had that article about the wedding up on AJC for about a week.

Not so with McCann’s wedding. (I might not have known about it if it hadn’t been at our Church. Course, we weren’t in attendance. [Dang it!!] ) I mean, they mentioned the date once in the sentences on braves.com about his Lasik. But that don’t bother me. I like the fact that Brian’s not always finding ways to get his name in the paper.

Am I appearing to want attention? Sorry, and/or my bad.

By KC

January 4, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Okay, you’ve been waiting for it (lol)! Here it is… my predictions for the 2008 Braves lineup:

Escobar: .287, 12 HR, 52 RBI, 16 SB

KJ: .290, 20 HR, 71 RBI, 13 SB

Jones (in 450 ABs): .323, 25 HR, 107 RBI

Tex: .297, 41 HR, 115 RBI

McCann: .301, 23 HR, 89 RBI

Frenchy: .291, 32 HR, 111 RBI

Diaz (if he plays everyday): .304, 18 HR, 81 RBI

CF… don’t know.

By KC

January 4, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

NEWS ALERT:

David Wright just took Michigan as well.

By DonCoburleone

January 4, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

DOB do you agree with the general blog consensus that this is the year Frenchy puts it all together and finally combines the power he had in 2006 with the plate discipline he showed in 2007? (as well as maintaining his ability to hit the ball hard to all parts of the field)…

By DonCoburleone

January 4, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Oh come on KC, at least throw in a predicted OPS with those numbers!

450 AB’s for Chipper? So you see him missing somewhere between 40 - 50 games this season?

I think you are being a little too optimistic about Frenchy and McCann… I’d say for Frenchy: .278/.342/.493 with 26 HR’s and 110RBI; McCann: .271/.334/.445 with 18HR’s and 88RBI…

One thing I’m definately curious about is how Brandon Jones does this season. He was a Top 3 prospect (top 5 at worst) in almost all major league prospect publications prior to 2007, so obviously all the tools are there…

By TexasBrave

January 4, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

McFann, True whoever hits in front of McCann needs to have a high OBP or it defeats the purpose of batting him lower in the order. Again it all depends on who the starters are going in. That is why I said that he could bat anywhere from 6th to eighth depending on who is in the line up.

I see that you have Matt batting 5th. I don’t know about that but can see him batting 6th and Brian 7th if whoever the CF is doesn’t get on base enough. Of course there is Brandon Jones to consider also and where to bat him with his probable platoon with Diaz. I can’t see him being as good a hitter as Diaz in his first full year.

The only flaw I see in my reasoning is that if Brian does bat eighth, he could be pitched around to get to the pitcher which would negate any positives that I was looking for in the first place. So perhaps the best spot would be to bat him 7th.

But as you pointed out BC makes out the lineup card. It would be great to sit down with the man and pick his brain as to why he does some of the the things he does. He has obviously had a very successful career doing what he does, but there are times I have to wonder.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Hey, KC, I like your predictions

BUT MONKEY

but I think you better give McCann a few more RBIs. How ‘bout you push the number up to around 91-94. But a .301 BA and 23 HR? That works for me.

Dang. I hope he stays healthy.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Good blog DOB.

McFann, it’s clear who hits fifth and who hits sixth. McFann hits 5th against righties. Frenchy hits 5th against lefties. Makes alot of sense based upon the differences in their numbers depending upon whether they are facing a righty or lefty. They are a perfect tandem in many ways. They each make up for each other’s flaws against righties/lefties. One is a more fiery, brash leader. The other more of a humble, lead by example, and by the relationships he develops with his teammates kind of leader. They each balance each other out to this fan.

Mensa Member, just saw your post at the tail end of the last blog. What you provided is a very general picture of how IQ is quanitified. What I provided was a more specific evaluation of those with higher IQ. And as I said in the post you referred to, the IQ classifications I used are just one of many ways that people evaluate IQ. I don’t think they have much value in measuring IQ. If anything, I think the classifications they used are more valuable for evaluating one’s OPS+ and ERA+ than they are for IQ. And that was precisely my point. But evidently that was lost on someone such as yourself who suffers from dullness. I wonder which concrete thinker that was….. hmmmmmm

By TennesseePaul

January 4, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

DonC: Kotsay is an interesting option. The A’s are obviously looking to “rebuild” and get cheaper so he might be available. He is owed 8 million this coming season, his last season of his extension. Mark Ellis is the current 2B on the depth chart, he has a 5 million club option for 2008 with a 250,000 buy out.
I’d imagine a trade for Kotsay would require more than just an infielder. Kotsay is a league average player. Moving him would leave the A’s outfield completely empty. Perhaps adding Blanco or Anderson to the trade would interest the A’s. They’d get a replacement that is league minimum in CF, a replacement at 2B in Prado that is league minimum, leaving them with the ability to buy out Ellis’ option year, or pick it up and trade him to maybe the Rockies who are looking for a 2B. And then maybe sending cash to the Braves for Anderson and Prado.

But I’d think the cash to the Braves part wouldn’t be that big of a deal, what with the “many millions more” to spend on next season’s payroll and all.

Or perhaps the A’s want two outfielders in return for Kotsay. I don’t know, but he’d be a good Stop-Gap. I’d be happy with him. Not really a speedster but he appears to be a pretty good hitter at the top of the line up.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

That wasn’t Chuck Norris standing behind Huckabee last night. That was David Wright posing as Chuck Norris standing behind Huckabee.

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

When Chuck Norris goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for David Wright.

By TK

January 4, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

With the A’s having a garage sale. I wonder what it would take to get CF’er Mark Kotsay from them? Then everyone keep their fingers crossed that he can at least stay healthy until June when one of the young players is ready.

By TexasBrave

January 4, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

KC, that’s the lineup I see BC opening up with also. Not what I like to see but what he will probably go with. Unfortunately Diaz will not get a full season with B. Jones a probable addition to the roster. I smell a platoon. Don’t you think if Bobby could see into the future that Matt was going to put up the types of numbers you mentioned for a full season that he would forgo platooning him?

By McFann

January 4, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

I don’t see why you guys have McCann with less than 90 RBIs. Whatever…

You’re correct, TexBrave. I definitely wouldn’t have McCann, a Silver Slugger, bat before a pitcher. He should bat before Diaz and after Francoeur, I guess. (Oh, sorry, I know that would take RBIs away from Diaz…)

Braveheart, your definition of McCann’s leadership qualities are exactly the reason why I like the man so much. [And that’s what I was “fighting” with you about before Christmas. Glad you finally agree. ; ) ]

Are you perhaps using the first definition of “brash” for Francoeur? Heh, heh…true my friend. Oh so true.

By mike

January 4, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Who would win in a fight between Chuck Norris and David Wright?

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, that made me laugh. Out loud.

By Jim

January 4, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, Not to kiss up, but I think you are just about one of the finest sports writers around……..definitely the best the AJC has. Always informative, always insightful, always an interesting read. This article was especially refreshing since I just read yet another idiotic tripe article by Terence Moore (Terrance Mathis for Falcons GM…yeah, right).

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

DonC, I agree, Kotsay does make a lot of sense. And believe me, Schafer couldn’t have a better guy to listen to and learn from, if Schafer is up with the big club. Plus, I ain’t saying Kots’ wife is gorgeous, but…. Oh, my.

By Aram

January 4, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

David,

Thanks for another insighful blog. I have a question regarding the Braves interest in Mike Cameron. It seems to me his options seem to be dwindiling. At this point, I don’t consider it out of the realm of possibility that he will have to settle for a 1 year deal (Heck, Andruw Jones had to settle for a 2 year deal). If Febuary/March rolls around and this guy can be had for 1 yr, $8-9 million, do you see the Braves having interest?

By TennesseePaul

January 4, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Who would win in a fight between Chuck Norris and David Wright?

Norris would Sidekick him into a pulp, but the two and a half minutes of the beating would be decided by the judges in favor of Wright.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

For those who are interested, Bill James projects these totals for the two young cornerstones:

Francoeur: .288, 35 doubles, 22 homers, 98 RBI, .333 OBP, .475 slugging, .808 OPS, 148 gms, 562 ABs.

McCann: .297, 36 doubles, 21 homers, 92 RBI, .360 OBP, .506 slugging, .866 OPS, 132 gms, 474 ABs.

Now, it’s beyond me how they can project only 148 games for Francoeur, who’s played every game for two seasons. But hey, whatever.

Couple more projections from James:

Kelly Johnson: .282, 30 doubles, 8 triples, 19 HRs, 76 RBI, .384 OBP, .473 slugging, .857 OPS, 147 gms, 539 ABs.

The projection for Mark Teixeira sounds about right, if perhaps a bit conservative: .289, 41 doubles, 36 homers, 120 RBIs, .382 OBP, .545 slugging, .927 OPS, 153 gms, 596 ABs.

And for Hoss: .306, 31 doubles, 26 homers, 90 RBI, .406 OBP, .542 slugging, .948 OPS, 128 games, 480 ABs.

By TexasBrave

January 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

DOB Just curious, have you ever seen a baseball players wife who was not beautiful? I mean most ball players have so many women falling over them that they get the pick of the litter.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it, McFann, as a blogger, you are the anti-McCann. You are always pestering your manager for a new blog, always demanding that awards be sent to you as soon as possible, always pestering your blogmates about spelling, manners, grammar, cussing, and bloghouse etiquette. It’s kinda funny that you idolize McCann so much. You share none of the traits that make him special.

You were only on the blog for a month and got yourself a Wurlitzer - kinda like Frenchy only being up for a month and ending up on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Bet you never thought of it that way, did ya?

I’m also betting you didn’t hear Frenchy cry that the mag didn’t end up at his house a week sooner the way you pouted about Lew not sending the Wurlitzer fast enough to ya, did ya?

McFann, you are more of a mix of David Justice and Deion Sanders than Brian McCann.

Anyways, did anyone catch Jerry Rice crying about Randy Moss not paying his respects to Rice after Moss broke his record? Same ole Jerry. Same ole Randy as well. Randy should have paid him more respect I guess but that ain’t Randy. Jerry should not have cried about the supposed lack of respect shown to him by Moss. But that ain’t Jerry either.

Barry Sanders never gave a crap about awards or records or respect being shown to him. Rice might have been the better, more accomplished player overall but Sanders will always have more respect from me than Rice and Moss combined. I was very glad to see that Central Florida kid didn’t break Barry’s record in the bowl game. That’s another absurdity of the NCAA. They now count bowl stats for regular season record purposes but they don’t go back and retroactively count bowl stats prior to 2003. Absurd. Just when you think Bud Selig and MLB is a mess of an operation, you remember how clueless the NCAA is.

David Stern is fortunate he has Bud Selig, Gary Bettman, Myles Brand, Vince McMahon, and the current sad state of boxing around. Otherwise, people might actually focus upon how the NBA has been run into the ground over the last decade since Michael Jordan retired for the second time.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Aram, I can’t see the Braves paying that much for a guy who’ll miss the first 25 games of the season for a drug suspension (theoretically, the first 25 games would be when they need him most, since inexperience is the problem with the guys they’ve got).

Also, I think Cameron will end up getting a two-year deal with someone, if not for as much as he wanted.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I was thinking the New York-based judges might find some reason to DQ Chuck Norris before the fight even began….

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Watched the other half of Grindhouse last night, Tarantino’s “Deathproof.” Very cool flick, with one of the better car-chase scenes since Bullitt.

And they used the 1970 Dodge Challenger, just like in Vanishing Point, the outstanding ’70s car-chase film (which I have on DVD, gotta love it).

By Lew

January 4, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about David Wright winning New Hampshire, but Edwards is going to be within a half hour of our house tomorrow in Lebanon, NH. Might just go and listen to a real candidate speak to actual people with no TV camera in between.

Might be interesting. Haven’t seen anyone Presidential since Old Dick Nixon visited Mercer in 1974. Saw the top of his head from about 200 feet away. And lots of Secret Service Dudes. Had to make sure we subversive Hippie Types didn’t subvert or anything. We behaved. Sort of.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

LEW, TELL THE POST-OFFICE TO TAKE AS LONG AS THEY WANT WITH THE DRAWING!!!

UGA, YOU CANN MISSPELL MY NAME IS YOU WANT TO!!!

BRAVEHEART, YOU CANN USE THE REAL WORD FOR “CRUD” IF YOU HAVE TO!!!

DOB, IF YOU DON’T HAVE A NEW BLOG UP UNTIL FEB. 14, IT’S OK WITH ME!!!

No commas? ALLELUIA!!

Me? I’m a nobody. Just expect to see me pop up to defend me humble favorite.

Besides, you know what they say: Opposites attract.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

McFann, hope you know I’m just funning with ya. Just a lil’ rookie hazing.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, good points about Sanders, etc. Saw Barry play several times when he was at Okla. State (we lived about 90 minutes north of Stillwater at the time), and he was always one of my favorites. Class act, and don’t you just wish more athletes cited him as a role model than some of the ones they do.

I just wish Barry had stuck around for a couple more years. Just a couple. The record book would be owned by him. Emmitt’s great, but he couldn’t hold Sanders’ jock. Only Sweetness (Walter Payton) could, in my opinion, among the backs of the past 20 years.

My all-time top 5: Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, Earl Campbell.

Sayers would’ve challenged for the mythical title if he’d played longer.

By Wayne in Utah

January 4, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

WW Loved the 8:17 post!

Kotsay’s wife is a looker huh? Sounds like we need him and Kris Benson for next year. Telecasts would definitely be worth watching, hoping to catch a glimpse of them in the stands!

Hey, Brian Jordan bats righty. Can he play some CF???

:-)

By Lew

January 4, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

McFann-Don’t yell. It is not nice being a Drama Queen. I always send the Wurlitzers via Priority Mail. I do it for everyone, not just because you showed impatience. Now calm down. It’s almost your bedtime and you’ll have trouble sleeping if you work yourself up like this. Have you brushed your teeth and washed your hands?

By Wayne in Utah

January 4, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Lew: How ya been? I think fondly of my NH/UGA friend every time I walk into my office at home, and see DM hanging proudly behind my desk!

Cleaned up/out my office during the holidays. Doesn’t look like the same place anymore!

By McFann

January 4, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

McFann, hope you know I’m just funning with ya…

Yeah, [sniff]…I understand…[sob]. I deserve a little insult every now and then. [tear]

Ol’ Prime Time here cann take the rap, homey.

Ya see? I was only funnin’ ya.

By McFann

January 4, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Lew

I was sorta kidding about all that I posted back there. I know you’re not just doin’ that for little ol’ me. (‘cause if you were, well, that would just be unfair.) I’m calm. But being compared to Francoeur is pro’bly the “meanest” thing anybody’s ever typed to me. LOL

Just finished brushing and all that. And I only asked about the Wurlitzer because I’m so excited to see it…especially after seeing the drawing you sent via e-mail.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

McFann, you’re kinda right about opposites attracting for fans and their favorite players. I’m a loudmouth on here but alot of my favorite players have been the Willie Randolph, Edgar Renteria, Barry Sanders types …… guys who just quietly went about their business with an understated and underappreciated approach. Growing up a Giants fan, I was always amazed with Lawrence Taylor, never could take my eyes off him, but always loved Carl Banks and Harry Carson more.

DOB, I also wish Barry Sanders had played a few more years. I was angry with him when he so mysteriously stepped away all of a sudden. A few years later, I wished that he would have come back and jumped on the Patriots bandwagon and gotten himself a ring. But that wasn’t Barry. Now, almost a decade later, I think it is even better that he doesn’t hold the records. It sets the perfect example for children looking to idolize an unselfish athlete.

If Barry played behind that Cowboys offensive line with Aikman, Moose, Irvin, Novacek around him, Barry would have averaged 8, 9 yards a carry.

By SNIPER-69

January 4, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

The braves will finish 3rd again. Another shoulda woulda coulda kind of year.

By brian

January 4, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

everyone is worried about CF it looks like. Francoeur holds the key to CF. No he is not going to play CF, but if he can continue his maturity with his .280+ average and displays his power again (30+ HR) he will more than compensate for the loss of Andruw with his progress. Frenchy has to be a solid #5 hitter. With our current CF candidates we then would only need solid defense and decent average - the CF would be our #8 hitter.

we are not going to acquire a solid #5 or #6 hitter to be our CF. Therefore Frechy has to continue his progress and McCann has to have a solid season. Tex be Tex. Chipper stay healthy. No drop off from Yunel or KJ.

By TNScott

January 4, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

DOB Here’s my Top 5 car chase movies or car chase scenes that I’ve seen(Pre 80’s The Golden Age of Car Chase Movies).

1. Smokey and the Bandit
2. Gone in 60 Seconds(the original)
3. Bullit
4. The Gumball Rally
5. Vanishing Point Honorable Mention: White Lightning, Dirty Mary Crazy Larry, Eat My Dust. The remake of “Gone” maybe the best since. Feel free to disagree. What’s your opinion?

By uga-brave

January 4, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

been reading a lot and not posting much.

savannah guy you are right. the polar caps are melting on mars and the last time i checked there are no martians driving SUV’s. solar flares.

i have just about had it with all this pandering toward mcFann.

kid or no kid, it is getting annoying.

i know i am not alone on that opinion.

gil, i thought of you last night, va tech’s qb’s have cost them the last two bowl games. three second half picks against my dawgs and the debacle last night.

i know you will be happy to see glennon go.

as for DOB’s post about francoeur, i agree on his leadership, fire, and gumption. i just dont see that swing holding up.

when HOSS came up you could tell. always had that smirk on his face that he could do it. swing was right, never off balance. dont matter abot age, it is about talent.

francoeur has got the desire, and he will become a very good baseball player. heck he already is but a star i dont know. guys like arod, howard, fielder, wright, were very good in their third year.

this is the year when we discover if he is a cornerstone kind of player. he plays a position that demands it. if you dont think so compare hs stats to the underated cory hart in milwaukee, harts stats are pretty much better in every category.

By brian

January 4, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

agree UGA Brave - I think we find out a lot about Francoeur this year. We will find whether he can be a leader both on the field and off (especially at bat) or whether he will be simply an above average player.

By uga-brave

January 4, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

tnscott,

the french connection and RONNIN, had the two best car chases i have ever seen. now if you add in the latest technology the matrix two was not bad either.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

UGA-Brave, valid point about Francoeur’s swing, in that it clearly isn’t the sort of distinctive, natural and devastating stroke Chipper has always had. It’ll never come that easily for Francoeur. It just won’t. He has to work at it and use his strength, athletic ability and a sound approach to be a consistently effective hitter.

By uga-brave

January 4, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

another thing, brave-dave and i had discussions all summer long about the sub-prime thing. i said many a time that this would not only manifest in the housing market but would spread throughout the finacicial markets.

guys its on like donkey kong. citibank has lost half of their market cap, washington mutual may or may not be solvent from what i have heard. i could go on and on. i know this is not the place for it.

all i am saying there is a massive credit crunch going on.

beazer homes will probably file bankruptcy within two months.

By JeffersonBravesFan

January 4, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

What up uga-brave. I’m with you McFake. He is really p** me off. If you’re going to quit blogging on one blog and start talking sh!te on another one about the notorious DOB, then he’s fair game to me. Then you got HK posting his lame a$$ stats…I guess if 10-12 people on a blog is spectacular, well then …I don’t know what to say….Anyway, I predict 297 average from Francour this year with 38 hr and 115 rbi’s. Save this because it’s gonna happen. McFake, I don’t know any girls your age who use “sheesh” since the 70’s. Give it up dude. Later…Peace out B!Tches

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Ronin was a recent movie with great car chases. Always enjoyed the Dukes of Hazzard car chases. French Connection was pretty cool as well.

It’s kinda hard for kids these days to appreciate good movie car chase scenes because they play Grand Theft Auto all day. When you can play a game all day and night where you load up on your weapons and intentionally hit cop cars or intentionally shoot an innocent pedestrian right in the middle of the street in broad daylight right in front of a cop just so you can get the cop to chase you and then go and make sure you smack every cop car until one of the cops gets out of his car and then you run into his car and steal the police car and then you go barricade yourself in a building and engage in an all day shootout with the entire police force with all the weaponry you have amassed for the express purpose of engaging in this gory and bloody shootout with the entire police force, it is kind of hard for a kid today to appreciate a good movie car chase scene. With that level of detail, I think it is safe to say I have played the game a time or two myself.

Although not a car chase movie, I have always loved that old Clint Eastwood move called Coogan’s Bluff. Great manhunt/foot chase movie.

By uga-brave

January 4, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

brian,

i got a hunch he will do pretty darn well. the guy has never failed at anything.

if he makes the adjustments? from a baseball observers take ” THE GUY HAS GO GOT WAY TO MANY MOVING PARTS” baseball americas read. ” THE GUY HAS TREMENDOUS TALENT BUT HITS AND LUNGES OFF HIS FRONT FOOT TOO MUCH WHICH TAKES AWAY FROM HIS ABILITY TO DRIVE THE BALL THE OTHER WAY”.

they go on to say he will be one of the top three defensive right fielders in baseball.

By Edo River

January 4, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Is Frenchy starting just another version of AndrUw’s career? (not to mention, he probably knows you get paid a lot for hitting homers). and then there is HGH to help this knowledge along. Best of Luck Frenchy.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

TNScott, after much thinking (and looking through the ones I own), I’d go with these for brilliant chases: French Connection, Bullitt, Vanishing Point, Death Proof, Ronin, Bourne Identity, The Italian Job, Mad Max, Ronin, Terminator 2, Gone in 60 Seconds (both the original and remake), The Great Escape (Steve McQueen on motorcycle — sublime) and Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry.

By Braveheart

January 4, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

the french connection and RONNIN, had the two best car chases i have ever seen.

Damn Ugabrave. You are right. The two of us agree about so many things. I hadn’t even seen your post when I posted mine about Ronin and the French Connection. Kinda funny.

As for Frenchy, he will never have the plate discipline and mechanical greatness of Chipper. But that’s fine. He doesn’t have to. The key thing is what DOB cited from that article: but he understands that better strike-zone discipline will make him an even more dangerous hitter.” Frenchy has become better at not swinging at everything thrown in the general direction of home plate. We need to get him swinging only at strikes. Once he does that, we need to get him only swinging at those strikes he can drive. Once he does that, the sky is the limit. He just needs to learn and accept that he is mechanically flawed and only swing at those strikes that play to the strengths of his swing and avoid those strikes and balls that put him at his disadvantage because of the huge holes in his swing. Much easier said than done.

I don’t agree that next year is a make or break year for Frenchy. He will only be 24. The make or break year for most players is usually when they get to be 25 or 27 years old. Roberto Clemente didn’t put it all together until he was 25 years old. Not sure if he will be Clemente but he can at least be a poor man’s version of Clemente.

By JeffersonBravesFan

January 4, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

uga…..I’m out dude. I’ll resond in the am. Peace out my brother.

By R1U

January 5, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Francouer and Mac are the faces of the NEW Braves…and with any luck Tex!!!

The team is FUN to watch…with apparently no holes in the lineup, too bad we can’t just let the other teams we play hit out of their hand every 3rd and 4th day

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Is Frenchy starting just another version of AndrUw’s career? (not to mention, he probably knows you get paid a lot for hitting homers).

Edo River I think it’s clear Frenchy could go either way. He could head the way of Andruw. But I think last year went a long way towards showing he was willing to sacrifice hitting homers so that he could be a better all around hitter. This was after McCann got his contract and Frenchy decided not to sign a contract. So, you could say that Frenchy had alot of pressure on him to hit alot of homers, which was his calling card that announced his presence with authority upon his entry into the majors. But, knowing that it could cost him alot of money, he decided to be open to learning, retaining, and applying the lessons the coaches were teaching him in order to make him a better all around hitter. That says alot about Frenchy. But of course the same thing could have been said about Andruw’s year in 2000. Unfortunately, after that 2000 season, Andruw gave it all up for the sake of trying to hit homers. Hopefully, Frenchy won’t go that way. We shall see. If last year was a sign of things to come, he won’t.

By StingerSplash

January 5, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

When watching that fool from Australia jump the football field at the Rio, one of those idiot announcers (and I’m sorry, that guy ain’t athlete; Michael Jordan - athlete; Carl Lewis - athlete; Australian nut on a motorcyle - simply an Australian nut on a motorcycle) said motorcycle jumping didn’t become vogue until Evel Knievel. I said, hell, what about Steve McQueen in The Great Escape? Hotter — Kotsay’s wife or Posednik’s wife?

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

These things never fail in car chases: Cool old cars and European streets and San Fran hills.

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry, that guy ain’t athlete; Michael Jordan - athlete; Carl Lewis - athlete; Australian nut on a motorcyle - simply an Australian nut on a motorcycle

Stinger Splash Can’t stop LMAO at that one.

By StingerSplash

January 5, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Sssshhhhh. I’m trying to watch Shooter Jennings on Letterman.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

i absolutely think this is a big year for francoeur.

renteria (WHO I LOVED) is gone. andruw (WHO I LOVED) is gone. time for frenchy to step up . chipper was a rookie in 95. four years later he won a MVP.

noW chipper is one of a (WHATEVER HE IS NO MCCAAN.) rare few. the guy was born to play baseball.

i never for a minute thought the guy dogged it. even when that series with the tigers rolled around. i thought him and smoltz both were hurt. and they could not perform up to their standards.

two great players with nothing to prove wanting to be right. both alpa males and we are lucky to have chipper and smoltz.

BRAVEHEART?

in the open market assuming chipper and smoltz were both free agents, start the bidding.

if andruw gets 16 over two, chipper at least gets 18 0ver three years.

and for smoltz who knows?

so the next time any of you fools boo HOSS or yell at him he has taken a huge discount to remain a brave.

as for smoltz he is our freak of nature.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

do you know this jeffersonbravesfan

this is the blogger

that is telling lew that mcFaan is jjs, or bob the journalist.

the excomunicated bloggers have not shown their face here in a long time.

as for me i loved clop, clop, clop, clop. loved that thirsty horse. might have to call him out again.

By joebrave

January 5, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Well Well What the he11,Look who just busted in the damn door!!!Frenchy,Is a Stud!!!! pure and simple… Still want to see some Upgrade in the Starters,and I think the Mutts,and Philthies @ss is Grass,and the Braves are the Lawn Mowers!!!!!! On another note,who in the Blue he11,gives a butt wipit,about what Tennessee Fan’s think of Our Beloved ,Dawgs,You fellas better get your acts together next Year boys,cause I smell some good ol fashioned @ss whuppins comin down…. Let the Big Dawg Eat,and Let the Braves Rolllllllllll!!!!

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

joebrave,

loved your post but it was one paragraph and it made my eye hurt.

try reading it. DAMN GOOD DAWG.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

said this a long time ago i dont think mcfaan exists. i really believe this is a ploy by the excomuicated bloggers.

they have not shown up since mcfaan was invented.

lew, i agree with your stance on this. send them your paintings, you are the BIGGER MAN. we all love you, you at least have a ton of talent. we may alwayS argue here but DOB invented this blog for an exchange of braves baseball.

that being said. braveheart, krisklob, lew, tennpaul, dap, shaun,n8, efrim, and many more and of course the most venerable wayne in utau see you when pitchers and catchers report.

By Lew

January 5, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

UGABrave-Dude-did you enjoy the sUGAr Bowel? Preseason number one next year.

By joebrave

January 5, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

D.O.B,I will Buy You a case of whatever You drink,If you will Slap the he11 out of Terrence Moron!!!!

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

lew,

with all those meds you take it is a miracle that you still can type.

i remember yudy’s downtown. i know you told me you painted a mural somwheres around five points. iknow you remember sons of italy and steverinos.

my stomping grounds wrere the oddysey, and harry bissetts. then of course there was the 40 watt, and the uptown lounge.

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

ugabrave, steverinos is still there. sons of italy though is now a bbq joint.

as for mcfann, who cares? it’s a good lil’ character. it’s provided some fun entertainment during a slow baseball period. not sure who it is but teenaged white girls don’t say, Ol’ Prime Time here cann take the rap, homey. not unless they were teenagers a decade and a half ago. and not unless they were male back then.

By TNScott

January 5, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

DOBThanks for jogging my memory on some of the old classic car chase movies. Another really good one was one called The 7 Ups with Gene Hackman after he made The French Connection. I guess looking at the genre it’s really interesting to note how it has evolved from the dramatic seriousness of movies with an edge to them in like Bullit and Mad Maxx in the beginning to the ridiculous comedies in later years like the Cannonball movies back to the dramatic with the Bourne movies. Just struck me as curious.

By TNScott

January 5, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

One more questionDOBand I’ll shut up. Who would a person talk to about getting car chase movie marathon or something similar going on of the Turner Networks?

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

if you are still around what is your opinion about john parker wilson? not so sure, myself.

but as as a dawgs fan i fear saban. the guy will win and win big.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this

think about it,

saban will rape the state. tuberville should of left. BAMA, IS THE state school.

i know it sounds simple but one is up and maybe one is sideways.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

think about it,

saban will rape the state. tuberville should of left. BAMA, IS THE state school.

i know it sounds simple but one is up and maybe one is sideways.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

but ” since you called here cousin oliver i guarantee she aint no girl gone wild”.

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 3:09 AM | Link to this

ugabrave, i liked JPW alot more before the season. he had a good 2006. but this year i was not too impressed at all. he showed some flashes late in games ….. but alot of that was because he had to. he kept the other team in the game in the first place. he had some pretty good wide receivers this year. but he also had a new offensive coordinator. i like major applewhite as the OC. i liked him alot as a QB at Texas as well. I thought he got screwed when they put Chris Simms in. Texas might have won a national championship if Applewhite had started the whole time. Classic example of a coach making the mistake of playing the guy with more talent instead of the better QB.

you watching this johnny cash concert live from australia on GPB right now?

but some of the personnel decisions made by saban this year left me scratching my head. upchurch seemed to the best running back but he was the third stringer. grant was pretty good but saban really seemed to like coffee. and keith brown who was their second best receiver was not really given a chance to do his thing. i dunno. a bit puzzling at times this year. but he’ll get it figured out.

hard for me to say anything bad about auburn since they have beaten bama 6 in a row now. i think tuberville made a mistake letting borges go. i read recently that muschamp is interviewing elsewhere. big mistake by tuberville. tuberville did not get things turned around over there until he had borges and muschamp together on both sides of the ball. the problem the last few years has not been the playcalling. brandon cox just wasn’t any good.

we’ll see. there’s enough room in bama for both schools to be good.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 3:26 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

as a uga alum we hate to see brandon cox go. the guy kept throwing to us.

except for that one pass 4th and whtever and he hit ar or whatever. that will be his legacy. burned our but three years ago. right down the middle.

i kicked in a tv that night.

LEW, i know you remember that play.

now two in a row over the plains guys

i really believe the dawgs are better then lsu.

of course i am bias. if the bengals are healthy they will beat ohio state.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 4:18 AM | Link to this

If a certain former Braves player, could have understood the concept of “plate discipline”, no telling how last season would have turned out.armesjr

a certain former player walked about as much in an average year as Jeffy has in his first three. or sumthang like dat

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 4:29 AM | Link to this

He was a Top 3 prospect (top 5 at worst) in almost all major league prospect publications prior to 2007, so obviously all the tools are thereDonC

Do you mean top 3 Braves prospects? Cause I never saw one that rated him in the top 20 overall. Still hasn’t made the top 35 overall in the three 2008 ones I’ve seen so far, even after a good 07

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 4:51 AM | Link to this

the french connection and RONNINuga-brave

add in Bullitt and you win the trifecta

By ncscoots

January 5, 2008 7:09 AM | Link to this

Well, if every hitter had to have Chipper’s classic mechanics, MLB could field probably one team in each league…maybe. It’s about maximizing the effectiveness of the swing, with the mechanics that let you get the bat through the hitting zone. See Vlad. Francoeur’s mechanics aren’t fatally flawed, and he’s already made at least two swing adjustments since coming to the bigs. Besides, his mechanics will look a whole lot prettier when he’s swinging only at hitters’ strikes, LOL.

nolie, McCann, Escobar, and Johnson weren’t top 30 prospects prior to their ML debuts, either. Once you see Jones play over more than a week, I think you’ll get the buzz. I don’t have him penciled in as ROY or anything, but I think he’ll be a solid contributor.

uga-brave, there’s a credit crunch? Thanks. No one else had noticed.

By Lauren T.

January 5, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Thanks for answering DOB. The reason I asked if Peter Moylan is on the list is because I heard in this interview that the Braves wanted him back in Atlanta for FanFest, and this article in yesterday’s (Australian) Herald Sun mentioned that he left Australia for Atlanta on Jan 4. I’m going to hope he wasn’t on the list because they were not be sure he could be back here by that time. It does sound like he had an invitation, though.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

nolie, McCann, Escobar, and Johnson weren’t top 30 prospects prior to their ML debuts, either. Once you see Jones play over more than a week, I think you’ll get the buzz. I don’t have him penciled in as ROY or anything, but I think he’ll be a solid contributor.ncscoots

wasn’t saying that he will or won’t produce. I was simply saying that I never once saw him rated anywhere near as high as the original poster stated that practically everybody had him rated at. If he meant 3rd as a Brave then I can easily see that, if he meant 3rd overall then thats not what I ever heard or read. He very well might do just fine, but an awful lot of high expectations are being based on one pretty good year in the minors. Betemit was hyped for the most part on a half a great year in AA. Lombard had a decent year or so at the end of his minor league career as did Langerhans. and Thomas…etc. The only time I’ve seen him play was at the end of the year and that on TV He did not look impressive, but that is hardly anything to make any real judgments on. We’ll see what we see after a year or three in the bigs.

By Big Dawg

January 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Clemens got problem? If Old Roger lies to Congress his A@@ will be like Bonds….up for trail.

It said POST COMMENTS on ajc blogs and when you do it comes back NO COMMENTS ALLOWED? If no comments allowed don’t as for them.

By AdirondackDave

January 5, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I know JS has said Mac (or was it Francoeur or both) was the new face of the Braves but I think there was a little bit of front office salesmanship going on there. They are certainly fine core players now and for the future but, for me, it’s still Chipper and Smoltz and will be until they retire. Would have said the same from Andruw as well had he stayed. I think JS was just a little premature with two great (was 3 when he said it) hall of famers still winning games for the club. I’d be interested in what others think about that.

Looking back at the James projections DOB reported yesterday, if our guys come through with those numbers I think we’ll have plenty of offense. Going to be an interesting year, probably right down to the wire for the division title.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 5, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Lauren , thanks for the link. It’s not everyday we get to read a Braves baseball story about Peter Moylan from an Australian newspaper.

By Braveheart

January 5, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

adirondack dave, i think people calling McCann and Frenchy the new face of the Braves is in recognition that attendance has gone up 5,000 fans a game since their arrival despite consecutive third place finishes. that’s 400,000 extra fans a season and probably an exra $8 to $10 million dollars made by the club with their presence on the team. add in all the extra tees and jerseys and hats sold. prior to that, attendance had steadily declined from 40,000 a game to 28,000 from 1999 until 2004 with chipper and smoltz on the team and the team always finishing in first place. chipper and smoltz are the best and are still the faces but frenchy and mccann are`selling

By varoadrunner

January 5, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

TO Admiral Glavine You are absolutely right, Frenchy is absolutely not David Wright…. Frenchy can catch and throw the ball with accuracy…. Wright clearly hasn’t mastered that part of the game yet. They both hit and both seem to be team players, but as I said, if only Davie could play defense.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Frenchy,Is a Stud!!!! pure and simplejoebrave

hmm. how so? cause he’s driven in 100 runs each year? RBI are a notoriously unreliable way to judge a player. And well he should have since he has hit in the middle of a team that has been 2nd & 3rd the last two years in runs scored. Judging him on OPS which is the current most used criteria he ranks a fair way down the list of RFers.In fact his career OPS+ is 100 which is dead average overall and low for a offensive oriented position.. Granted that he has a great arm and is a gifted defensive RFer,but so far he is not anything all that special offensively is he? ‘fraid that ‘stud’ is a bit of an over-evaluation at this point. be interesting to see if he continues to improve this season. Let’s hope so.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Nolie, is hitting .300 with 14 homers in 70 games as a 21-year-old rookie brought directly from Double-A not “special” in your view?

Or hitting 29 homers with 103 RBI while playing all 162 games at age 22 in his first full season in the majors, that’s not at all special to you?

Then you’ve got some rather extraordinary standards for special. Maybe you could lighten up a bit and not expect everyone to be the next Albert Pujols.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

By the way, it was 30 years ago today that the Sex Pistols played their first U.S. gig, and it was right here in Atlanta at the old Great Southeast Music Hall. Story about it in the AJC today….

Lauren T., you’re right, it does sound like Moylan might be coming over for FanFest, judging from that story. He wasn’t on the list, so I assumed he wasn’t coming because of the distance involved….

By Biff

January 5, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

I lived in Cincinnati during the Big Red Machine’s run. What a ride. I’d give anything if the Braves could have the same success here. Talk about uniting a city…took the RedSox in 7 in ‘75 and swept the Yankees in ‘76. Rose, Morgan, Foster, Bench, Concepcion, et al with Sparky Anderson managing.

By flange1

January 5, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Just listening to the “Who Killed Bambi” double album and the Professionals only record… I saw the Pistols in Atlanta all those years ago..

Hard to believe it was 30 years…

By Biff

January 5, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

BTW, I like the way you interact with the bloggers David O. Perhaps you can talk to your compadre Terence Moore to do the same.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

TNscott, they should do that car-chase movie marathon. That’d be outstanding. I’m sure someone from the Turner networks with a brain and some pull is reading this, so maybe your idea will gain some traction, pardon the pun….

Saw something that a LOT of you folks might love today in one of the countless catalogs I get in the mail. It’s a major league baseball version of Scrabble, with the board designed like a ball field, the letters shaped like baseballs, and tweaked rules that give bonus points for using baseball terms (includes a dictionary to help baseball novices understand the terms).

I’m sure you can buy it at some game or toy stores, but I saw it in the the Wireless catalog, website: thewirelesscatalog.com. Cost $36.

They’ve also got some sweet vintage NBA t-shirts of the Sixers (weathered team logo on front, Dr. J and No. 6 on back), Lakers (Magic) and a Celtics shirt that I might just have to purchase, with Bird and No. 33 on the back.

By flange1

January 5, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I can feel Janie Jones and Tommy Gun coming!

By AdirondackDave

January 5, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Braveheart — Good points, I hadn’t thought about the economic implications you mentioned. From the front office point of view, making Mac and Frency the new faces of the Braves certainly does make sense. I imagine one of these years I’ll feel about these young guys like I do about Chipper and Smoltz.

We live about 50 miles from Cooperstown and I can’t tell you how much I look forward to being there for (hopefully) their induction in 8-10 years. I’ve been wondering lately if it is possible that Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, and Chipper could be eligible and inducted the same year. Probably not but I’ll be 80 then and what a way to go!

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Edo River, I see no reason whatsoever to think Francoeur is starting out as “another version of Andruw’s career” or however you put it. Not that Andruw hasn’t had a helluva career; Frenchy can only dream of 10 Gold Gloves and more than 300 homers by age 30 (he could win a max of eight Gold Gloves by age 30).

No, Andruw had immense talent and extremely rare natural ability to hit a baseball a long way and to get a jump on balls the nanosecond they leave the bat, and sometimes ever before (he was that in sync with the best Atlanta pitchers).

Francoeur has great athletic ability, but it’s more overall athleticism than the specific skill set Andruw had for playing baseball, if that makes sense.

And Francoeur knows he can’t get by on natural talent the way Andruw could. In the long run, that’ll help Francoeur, knowing he has to work hard, and wanting to work harder to be the best. He probably won’t be the best, but he’ll work as hard as he can to try to get there. That’s just the way he is.

And he does listen to his coaches and veteran players. He’s not hard-headed like someone else we know.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

OK, gotta focus on this KU-Boston College hoops game on ESPN. My man Bill Raftery’s calling it, and he’s the best. “Send it in, big fella!”

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 5, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Concerning Roger Clemens , the man has already lied and contradicted his own statements about being injected.

His first quote in the video : I did not provide Brian Macnamee with ANY DRUGS to inject into my body. Brian Macnamee did not inject steroids or HGH into my body either in Toronto or while I played with the N.Y. Yankees.

His second purported quote to Mike Wallace : Roger Clemens says he was injected with “lidocaine and B-12” and not steroids or human growth hormone by former trainer Brian McNamee.

Does Roger Clemens think that we are buying this crap ? He can’t even keep his lies straight.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Nolie, is hitting .300 with 14 homers in 70 games as a 21-year-old rookie brought directly from Double-A not “special” in your view?

Or hitting 29 homers with 103 RBI while playing all 162 games at age 22 in his first full season in the majors, that’s not at all special to you?

Then you’ve got some rather extraordinary standards for special. Maybe you could lighten up a bit and not expect everyone to be the next Albert Pujols.DOB

an OPS+ of 100 is dead average and behind a whole passel of players other than Pujols.I don’t see how dead average(actually below average for RFers I bet) can possibly be construed as ‘special’ or ‘stud’ even in today’s grammar. There’s probably 10 RFers ranked ahead of him offensively. So no he ain’t offensively special..yet. Didn’t say I was unhappy with him.;-)

By Avery

January 5, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

A couple of points. First of all, Frenchy is not an above-average player. He is a stud, both in the field and at the plate. I have absolutely no worries about him.

Mark Kotsay is not worth $8 million, or even $4 million. Look at his numbers. I say try Brandon Jones or Schafer in center. Our offense is stacked. Even if Jones/Schafer combine for .260/15/70 this year, we will be fine. I would rather save Kotsay money and use it to help sign Tex or get another arm.

By Thrillhouse44

January 5, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

KU is killing them, Notorious.

DOB, Braveheart, any other Wu fans: A buddy got me a copy of the Ghostface Killah/Rhythm Roots All Stars show in Las Vegas from October, 2007. Like all live rap, the lyrics are hard to understand, but it’s a fun CD to listen to. The RR All Stars really jam. If ya’ll want, I can send a copy of it.

By uga-brave

January 5, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

nOLIE,

you are dead on about francoeur. at this point offensively he is slightly above average. until his .ops approaches .900 he is simply an average offensive right fielder. if he was not from atlanta he would not of been fast tracked.

all that being said i think over time he has all the talent and intagibles to become an all-star. we are gonna learn a lot about his future this year.

By Marc

January 5, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Bleh, I live in Brevard County (central florida), and it’s not much warmer here in the mornings. Sure, it’s only 40 degrees… but that’s before the 20mph wind gusts are taken into consideration. Then it gets hotter than hell in the afternoon, so you almost have to carry to outfits with you all day.

I just left Atlanta a few days ago and would gladly take that.

By Marc

January 5, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Just read the Bill James predictions; who is he and why is he such an idiot?

By efuzz

January 5, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

DOB - enjoying the blog as always. Just got back from south FLA. Went to see the in-laws and had free tix to the Orange Bowl. It’s totally different seeing it in Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphin Huizenga field. I missed parking in a seedy front yard and buying a “steak” on a stick on the street. Good game though.

I did think of you when I managed to hit Le Tub for a burger - near perfection. 80 degrees, ocean breeze and old French Canadians on the beach! Also managed to finally see No Country for Old Men while I was there. IMO - best film of 2007. I’m planning to hit Oralndo for the spring. I’ll look you up.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

I see that the Braves signed Matt DeSalvo the Yanks minor league pitcher of the year a few seasons ago. Wonder if that has any future?

By BabyGoatEater

January 5, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

AtlantaBraves Grades

RF-Francour-A(-)only because of his gold glove

LF-Diaz/Jones-C(+)They both need something to put them over the top

CF-?????/Anderson-Incomplete for obvious reasons

3B-Jones-A(+)How can you argue with a future hall of famer still putting up monster numbers

2B-Johnson-B-has some work to do but if you look around the league at the 2B position, name me a better hitter, there aren’t that many.

SS-Escobar-C(+)-probally won’t be a C caliber player for long but…..he’s very inexperienced at the major league level

1B-Texeira-A(+)-same caliber player as Jones but younger, couldn’t give him a higher grade but he probally deserves it

C-McCann-B(+)-showed he was human last year but still put up the best numbers at his position in the National League.

Closer-Soriano-B-Most teams would love to have him…..not quite the best option out there though.

SP-Smoltz-A-Who says you can’t pitch until your fifty?

SP-Hudson-A(-)-Will the real Tim Hudson please stand up……Who’s gonna show up this year? I’ll give him the benifit of the doubt considering his track record.

After that there’s only a bunch of could-be’s or solid back up guys….

Could care less what everyone else thinks about my rankings, but there they are.

By BabyGoatEater

January 5, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

AtlantaBraves Grades

RF-Francour-A(-)only because of his gold glove

LF-Diaz/Jones-C(+)They both need something to put them over the top

CF-?????/Anderson-Incomplete for obvious reasons

3B-Jones-A(+)How can you argue with a future hall of famer still putting up monster numbers

2B-Johnson-B-has some work to do but if you look around the league at the 2B position, name me a better hitter, there aren’t that many.

SS-Escobar-C(+)-probally won’t be a C caliber player for long but…..he’s very inexperienced at the major league level

1B-Texeira-A(+)-same caliber player as Jones but younger, couldn’t give him a higher grade but he probally deserves it

C-McCann-B(+)-showed he was human last year but still put up the best numbers at his position in the National League.

Closer-Soriano-B-Most teams would love to have him…..not quite the best option out there though.

SP-Smoltz-A-Who says you can’t pitch until your fifty?

SP-Hudson-A(-)-Will the real Tim Hudson please stand up……Who’s gonna show up this year? I’ll give him the benifit of the doubt considering his track record.

After that there’s only a bunch of could-be’s or solid back up guys….

Could care less what everyone else thinks about my rankings, but there they are.

By nOLIE

January 5, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

A couple of points. First of all, Frenchy is not an above-average player. He is a stud, both in the field and at the plate. I have absolutely no worries about him.Avery

and how do you justify that claim other than with emotional bias? His stats certainly have no claim to ‘stud’ as of yet. Dead average means exactly that ‘dead average’. Bet if he wasn’t a hometown Brave, but say a homegrown Philly you wouldn’t be claiming such obviously biased assertions.

By Mike

January 5, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Great post, especially ending with Paul Westerberg. Completely an underrated genius as a songwriter. Too bad the ‘Mats were drunk most of the time and didn’t make the most of it.

By AdirondackDave

January 5, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOB — Great 12:07 discussion of the comparisons between Andruw and Francoeur. Much clearer to me now.. and it renews my faith in Frenchy for the future (not that it needed much renewing). Many thanks.

By Lew

January 5, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

nOLIE- email me lewhartman@comcast.net I’ve got some information for you.

By David-ATL14

January 5, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

A quick Google search of ” Hot Sports Wives” yields a neverending list of various top 10 or top 20 babes.

Needless to say that Jamie Kotsay is on almost all of them that I viewed anyway, quite stunning, evenmoreso for a blond.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

efuzz, those LeTub burgers are phenomenal. And no, it ain’t the old Orange Bowl game, for sure. Parking and wondering if your card would be on blocks when you got back that night was part of the adventure at the old dump….

Mike, thanks. I saw the ‘Mats a few times, once in Lawrence in ‘85 or so, when they were even more hammered than I was (I was in college at the time)….

Adirondack, glad to be of service.

By Corey

January 5, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Frenchy has a bright future. It the Braves as a team I am worried about. As I see it, the Cubs, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Padres & Rockies are all better NL teams.

I sure hope signing Glavine is not the biggest deal of the off-season or we are destined for another 3rd place finish.

And, while I’m on the subject, I think Glavine was a rip off at 8 million. There were 9 better starting pitchers on the free agent market.

1)Pettitte - 16m 2)Lohse - UNSIGNED 3)Silva - 12m 4)Colon - UNSIGNED 5)Hernandez - UNSIGNED 6)Rogers - 8m 7)Fogg - UNSIGNED 8)Wolf - 4.75m 9)Weaver - UNSIGNED 10)Glavine - 8m

See anything wrong with that picture. At least 4, if not six of those guys could have been signed at or well below 8m. Sure, the farewell tour is cool and all, but I’m tired of not playing in October.

By McFann

January 5, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Good heavens…

That thing about Prime Time was a joke, people. Braveheart said I was a cross between David Justice and Dion Sanders…ya know, Sanders always called himself Prime Time…?

Maybe the reason I talk like somebody from the “old days” is because everything I watch on TV is pre-80’s. (Pre-70’s, mostly.) Stuff like Leave it to Beaver, Andy Griffith, I Love Lucy, the Brady Bunch, Dick Van D**…all that good stuff. Well, heck, it’s better than what’s on now. (Please, don’t yell-type at me for that. I’m merely typing the truth IMO.)

Uga, as much as it might pain you to read this, I do exist. As a matter of fact, I just got my Wurlitzer in the mail. (Man, that Lew is a good artist.) Perhaps those other bloggers left because they were scared of me. LOL

Braveheart, I’m glad you think I’m a “good lil’ character” or whatever you said. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, I guess.

Now, a question for Lew (Sorry this dang post is so long. Just got back from the High Museum of Art about an hour or two ago.) What type of pencil did you use on The Drawing? Just curious. I use 2B led mechanical pencils for my stuff. I also use Prisma Color pencils. Those things rock, but they break like nuthin else!!

By McFann

January 5, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Gotta agree with Corey on the Glavine thing. I mean, sheesh, if we wanted some old guy, we shoulda gone after Maddux—wait. Never mind. Dumb statement. He had already signed with the Pads. I wouldn’t want the Braves to have Pettitte, not with the ‘riods. Or is this somebody else? There is another guy with a name that sounds like that…

As for Wolf, he’d have been waaaaaayy better than Glavine, my goodness!! That’s a no-brainer…for me, anyway.

By McFann

January 5, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Good grief. I didn’t know that Dick’s last name would set off the checker thingy. That almost ruins my image (if I have one).

By AdirondackDave

January 5, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Corey — Holy smoke, I would take Glavine over many if not most of those guys you mentioned… Colon, Rogers, Weaver, Wolf, at least, maybe several more. Add in the tutorial service for James, etc. and it’s not even close. I’ll be surprise if Glavine gives the Braves less than 12 wins or an ERA over 4.20 and he’s a consistent innings-eater, no small benefit, witness last years 3-4-5 performances. On a year-to-year basis he’s a very good buy at $8M given his career consistency.

By J

January 5, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

To comment about the senior class president thing… since when does whether or not somneone is the student class president mean they have leadership or not. It’s usually either a populairty contest or (as was this case) a big class-wide thing nobody really took seriously.

I was in the class, and trust me. If Jeff ran, he probably would have won. Would have made for an inetresting matchup with Catie, too!

By d-rock in Scotland

January 5, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Great week for our jayhawks Dob. Did you see the ‘mats at the Bottleneck perhaps? I still remember a Jonathan Richman show I caught there.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

d-rock, that’s where I saw them (the Lawrence show at Bottleneck). Saw them a few other times in Kansas City and once in Irvine, Calif….

Corey, you’re delusional….

Friday Night Lights — best TV drama this season, at least until The Wire starts Sunday? I think so. FNL has been terrific, episode after episode.

By Michael Procton

January 5, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

And to go with the Bill James projections, I just got the Ron Shandler forecaster (which is geared towards fantasy)…here are those Braves numbers: Francoeur: .278, 23 homers, 103 RBI, .312 OBP, .451 slugging, .766 OPS, 632 ABs.

McCann: .284, 21 homers, 96 RBI, .340 OBP, .482 slugging, .822 OPS, 517 ABs. {They’re excited about the way he hit in the 2nd half as a sign that he’s ready to get back to the 20-HR plateau)

Kelly Johnson: .269, 18 HRs, 66 RBI, .357 OBP, .454 slugging, .811 OPS, 528 ABs. (They think he could use work on his contract hitting, but respect him as one of the most well-rounded MI players in the league.)

Mark Teixeira: .303, 42 homers, 138 RBIs, .386 OBP, .574 slugging, .960 OPS, 630 ABs. (“Minor changes to his approach in the NL hold hope that the big mega-breakout is coming. More aggression at plate and higher FB rate added to already superb power skills. Upside: 50-150-.320” That sounds pretty damned good to me!)

Chipper: .323, 23 homers, 81 RBI, .418 OBP, .583 slugging, .1001 OPS, 400 ABs. (I agree that 400 ABs is a good number on Hoss if we’re looking to “put it in the bank”, but those rates would obviously be VERY impressive given another 150 ABs or so.

And the big boys in the rotation:

Smoltz: 199 IP, 12-7, 3.48, 1.18 WHIP, 180 Ks

Hudson: 218 IP, 15-11, 3.72, 1.30, 132 Ks (They warn that his type of contact, ground-ball pitching can be very dangerous from a statistical (and, obviously, on-field) standpoint.

Glavine: 164 IP, 11-7, 4.62, 1.47, 78 Ks

By McFann

January 5, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

I like those numbers, Michael. But I wonder how he arrived at 21 homers…mmm. Must be mathematical…fun!

By Lew

January 5, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

McFann-I use regular number two pencils-Usually Mirado Black warriors (strange name and I don’t want to know-because the lead is usually pretty standard in it’s medium softness and they have good erasers. If I need to get real dark, I will use Turquoise (by Primascolor) 2B to 6B Drawing Pencils (not Prismacolor colored pencils). But since I have a tendency to draw a bit dark due to all the eye operations and cataracts, I rarely use a drawing pencil. I work on Crescent double thick cold press illustration board. I paint on it too. I use kneaded rubber erasers, as well.

By McFann

January 5, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Lew

I use kneaded rubber erasers, too, although sometimes I can’t get them to actually work. That illustration board is cool stuff. I’ll have to try it sometime. What I use is Strathmore Bristol paper—vellum, 100 lb.

Did I mention I really like the drawing?

By (As if falling short in most offensive categories when compared to one of the very best young player

January 5, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

I changed my handle so we can all read this paragraph everyday next season. Next off season we can take out Wright and Frenchy’s names and insert Reyes and Escobar’s.

Something tells me Wren will have a copy of it in his wallett for when Frenchy’s agent finally comes a calling for his own $55 mil contract.

By brian

January 5, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

everyone seems to doubt Francoeur because of his swing not being as natural as Chipper’s. Neither was Dale Murphy’s and he did alright for himself and the Braves (especially before the big homerun boom). If Francoeur could be Murphy, especially in Murph’s prime, I think the Braves would be more than happy about that

By Ichthybaštard

January 5, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Dob is the greatest. Kansas is the greatest.

Tomorrow’s weather in North GA

By brian

January 5, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

finally saw something DOB posts that I completely disagree with - Bill Raftery is the greatest. The with a kiss comment is like fingernails down a chalkboard for me

By Wayne in Utah

January 5, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Corey Concerning your 3:39pm post. See my comments below. I don’t know you, but ask Gil and others about the award I am giving you. It is given with no guile, but you win the “Your and idiot” award today.

DOB was kind to say you were delusional. You are not a very good student of the game. Check the internet. You can find out things; things like I have stated in my response to your earlier post.

Have a great year, and enjoy TG this season.

My comments attached to your list:

1)Pettitte - 16m (better pitcher today, wasn’t going anywhere but the Yankees. Not worth 2X the salary though.)

2)Lohse - UNSIGNED (will sign for Silva type money, only one season over 200 IP, and NEVER an ERA under 4. Do you want to get him for 4 years and 10mil plus per year? Couldn’t hold TG’s jock.)

3)Silva - 12m (is the closest on your list to TG’s value. Do you really want Silva for 4 years at 12 mil per? He’s a number 4, for gosh sakes!)

4)Colon - UNSIGNED (is he healthy? If he was, he would have a dozen suitors. He is a huge Question mark. Great pitcher earlier in his prime. 34 years old, and FAT! Not over TG, no thanks.)

5)Hernandez - UNSIGNED (would have been an OK risk at one year and 8 mil. Last two years, his ERA has increased by a run and his innings had dropped from previous highs. Better than TG, nah, I don’t think so.)

6)Rogers - 8m (don’t you remember, he was ONLY going to sign with the Tigers….fired the agent thing. Still not the pitcher TG is.)

7)Fogg – UNSIGNED (are you kidding me. A #4, with a 5 ERA for his career! Nah.)

8)Wolf - 4.75m (do we really want to take a 5-9 million dollar flier on a pitcher that has been injured most of the past 4 seasons?? Another Hampton folks, for less money. Every team should have one Wolf/Hampton…not 2!)

9)Weaver - UNSIGNED (Are you kidding me!!!! Way too streaky, and mostly bad streaks. Sorry, no thanks!)

By Wayne in Utah

January 5, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Whatever happened to Dickie Betts? ABB fired him some years ago. Does he play any in the ATL area?

By Avery

January 5, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, so maybe there is a little emotional bias with Francoeur. I still think 40 2B, 100 RBI, a gold glove, and the best outfield arm in baseball should give him consideration for stud status. I just think that at 23 years old, he’s only going to get better.

By ncaa

January 6, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

DOB who are your top 5 college football teams?

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

slow night on the blog,

must be because braveheat is on HBO.

william wallace if you are out there what do you think about those braves projections.

they think smoltz is slowing down. if glav goes 11-7 with 4.42, it is a waste of money.

as for francoeur you got to remember he plays every day. if you guys really think he is a stud. diaz’s numbers would be as good or better if he played every day.

my point is a stud’s right fielder’s #’S better be better than a .770 ops.

right field is a offensive position. anything you get from your catcher is a bonus.

time for jeff to step up and become our thid best hitter.

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

ncaa,

i will answer that for DOB.

in no particular order usc, georgia, lsu, ohio state, and west virginia.

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

sorry mcFann,

if you exist i still dont like your verbage. this is the deep end of the pool and sometimes you wade into the water without your waterwings.

when baseball starts i really dont think you will have a lot to add.

sorry for being so blunt, but i like to hear relevant arguments. guys like krisklob, braveheart, lew, n8, tennpaul, and wayne, consistenly bring it.

not to mention serbok, and my good friend brave-dave.

By Marc

January 6, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

That fact that frenchy plays everyday just makes his numbers more impressive, not less impressive, if Diaz played everyday his AVG would most likely take a hit due to fatigue. Logic people, logic.

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

for all you comcast subcribers THE BAD NEWS BEARS IS ON 307.

probably the best baseball movie of all time.

where else can you get a drunk coach driving around a bunch of kids with no seatbelts. they are sitting on top of a old convertible with a guy drinking budweiser.

classic,

times were simpler before the political correct police.

blame that on the 24 hours news chanells.

they got nothing better to do. we all are now about to be forced fed an election. as for me i would rather watch the BAD NEWS BEARS.

were simpler then.

as for me DOB, i envision our friend coach who continually tells us he has been around baseball for years wearing those tight bike coaching shorts with a large gut hanging over.

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

nothing better then whatching the BAD NEWS BEARS. when i was a kid i thought kelly leak was the coolest guy ever.

now kelly leak turned into jackie earl haley, who was in a another great movie. anybody?

breaking away. great movie on a shoestring budget. thats where dennis quaid got his start.

By uga-brave

January 6, 2008 2:24 AM | Link to this

marc,

i dont dislike frenchy but the dude plays everday, had more then 100 at bats on the team then every one else.

19 dingers for a right fielder aint great. his .ops is lacking.

i know DOB will argue that he is young and he might be right. but when chipper and justice came up they dwarfed his .ops.

By Nolie

January 6, 2008 6:09 AM | Link to this

That fact that frenchy plays everyday just makes his numbers more impressive, not less impressive, if Diaz played everyday his AVG would most likely take a hit due to fatigue. Logic people, logic.Marc

It might happen that if Diaz played every game that his stats would go down some, but we have no way of really knowing if that would really happen.

By ncscoots

January 6, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this

*if you exist i still dont like your verbage. this is the deep end of the pool and sometimes you wade into the water without your waterwings.

when baseball starts i really dont think you will have a lot to add*

Luckily for McFann (and you, too, uga), this blog doesn’t operate on consensus. You don’t like somebody’s postings, you can scroll on by. But there’s no committee that judges worth.

As far as having “a lot to add” on the topic of baseball, luckily for McFann (and you, too, uga), that’s not a requirement for posting here, either.

By TommyP

January 6, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Baseball can’t get here fast enough.

Those high school all start games saved me from college football withdrawal yesterday. GREAT fun to see tomorrow’s college stars on the gridiron. And the Georgia kids did well. Loved that Glennon kid, though.

Billy Beane sure has stayed busy during this dead time for player movement.

By wjones

January 6, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Here is a VERY unscientific measure I have always used for fun to see if a team will improve or not from one year to the next. I’ll use it first in comparing the 2006 to the 2007 Braves, then use it to PROJECT 2008. It’s very simple to use: for each position, add two wins if the performance improved, and deduct two wins if the performance dropped.

2006-2007 Catcher: minus 2 First Base: minus 2 Second Base: plus 2 Shortstop: plus 2 Third Base: plus 2 Left Field: plus 2 Center Field: minus 2 Right Field: plus 2 Bench: minus 2 So before considering pitching and management, the Braves have a 2-game improvement over 2006.

Closer: plus 2 Bullpen: plus 2 Management/Coaching: minus 2

That all nets out to a 6 game improvement, which is exactly what happened, as the team went from 78 wins to 84. Obviously it is easier to look at something retrospectively than to project, but I will attempt to do this in my next post, trying to be relatively conservative.

By Steve McP

January 6, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Just flicked through the Blog and noticed the reference to “Who Killed Bambi”, it was on the sex pistols double album/movie soundtrack The Great Rock and Roll Swindle, but it was by Tenpole Tudor. Great track and one of the most energetic live acts, saw him in the UK a couple of times, he went on to host the Crystal Maze over there, but did in a wonderfully wacky way.

By wjones

January 6, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

OK, now let’s look at projecting 2008 off 2007. I’ll make little comments this time:

Catcher: plus 2 (McCann is healthier and better rested)

First Base: plus 2 (Full year from Tex)

Second Base: plus 2 (Kelly is better rested and more experienced)

Shortstop: minus 2 (the combo of Edgar and Yunel last year is almost impossible to reach)

Third Base: minus 2 (a tough act to follow for Chipper)

Left Field: minus 2 (ditto)

Center Field: minus 2 (just being conservative)

Right Field: plus 2 (Jeff’s off season program)

Bench: plus 2 (can’t get worse?)

So again a 2 game improvement before we get to pitching.

Closer: plus 2 (Soriano > Wickman)

Bullpen: minus 2 (being conservative again)

Management/Coaching: plus 2 (everyone comes back; extra bonus for new GM hungry to impress)

That adds up to 11 areas improved, 6 areas dropping, so a plus 10 games in the standings, or 94 wins. That would win the division. If I’m wrong on one of those, it would be a six game improvement,or ninety wins, certainly enough to contend for divison/wildcard normally. Things of course happen to damage expectations, but I deducted points in center field, left field, and bullpen, which I have good reason to beleive could all exceed last year’s expectations. Not to mention it is foolish to ever bet against Smoltz. Anyway, it’s a fun exercise, and maybe I’ll do it again, once the roster takes better shape in March, people get hurt/traded, etc.

By Braveheart

January 6, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Isn’t the shame of the roids/HGH era that people can only call what Frenchy did last year average? It was indeed average from an OPS standpoint for the era he plays in. However, I believe Frenchy is a clean ballplayer and is built the way a ballplayer is supposed to look. His OPS+ may have only been good enough for 100, which is dead average.

But go back and look at Claudell Washington in 1985 with the Braves or in 1988 with the Yankees. He had similar OPS numbers and that was good enough for an OPS+ of 117 and 120. It is somewhat similar to what Chris Chambliss did for the Braves in 1982 and that OPS+ was good enough for 112. Bob Horner had similar OPS+ numbers in 1981 and that was good enough for a 126 OPS+.

I understand it was a different era with different pitchers, different ballparks, yada, yada, yada. But it was also an era where steroid abuse was minimal - so natural players like Frenchy could stand out.

People like Frenchy are exactly why baseball badly needs to clean this game up. Otherwise, people will continue to take shots at Frenchy for being average. Eventually, he will have to give in to the temptation to roid himself up so people will never call him average anymore. Then he will be a monster and all of those people that dismissed him as average will call him a bum for roiding himself up when they were basically demanding that he roid himself up by calling him average as compared to the other roid freaks he was competing against.

I applaud Frenchy for telling DOB he is gonna be hardcore this winter in strength training. I don’t think he is gonna give in to that dreaded temptation but if I read during spring training that he put on 20 pounds of muscle, I am gonna feel like Chuck Norris kicked me in the stomach.

On the road in 2007: .316, .344, .503; At home in 2006: .305, .340, .533

Against lefties in 2007: .317, .367, .486; Against lefties in 2006: .292, .355, .518

As a #5 hitter in 2007: .322, .360, .508; As a #5 hitter in 2006: .305, .326, .586

Runners on in 2007: .303, .357, .468; Runners on in 2006: .288, .326, .478

Scoring position in 2007: .341, .389, .527; Scoring position in 2006: .320, .368, .477

Close & late in 2007: .312, .350, .419; Close & late in 2006: .304, .339, .637

Yeah, but he’s supposedly dead weight the rest of the bona fide offense carries. He just needs to finally put it together in one package:

Here is the downside:

Home 2007 and Away 2006 combined: 636 at bats, 153 hits, 72 runs, 88 RBIs, 21 doubles, 6 triples, 17 homers

Here is the upside:

Home, 2006 & Away, 2007 combined: 657 at bats, 204 hits, 95 runs scored, 120 RBIs, 43 doubles, 31 homers

By ncgary

January 6, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

bad news bears reminds me of when i met jimmy van patten around 21 years ago at a tennis tournament in narlins, he wasnt acting in the bears movie , the on screen character was exactly like his off screen persona

By Lew

January 6, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I just finished a Bobby Cox portrait. Anyone have Robert’s address?

By Savannah Guy

January 6, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

I just finished a Bobby Cox portrait. Anyone have Robert’s address?

Funny. But wouldn’t you hate your good work being used as a dart board? Or, a pin the tail on the…

By Savannah Guy

January 6, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

People like Frenchy are exactly why baseball badly needs to clean this game up. Otherwise, people will continue to take shots at Frenchy for being average.

Cuz, I’m with ya on Frenchy. Hopefully, this is the year he puts it all together. He’s got the experience now, he’s had the talent. With his ongoing physical conditioning he’ll also have more power for gappers and beyond warning track HR improvement. If he works on the mental conditioning (patience and pitch type/count reading) he’ll have all the tools for a breakout year.

Wonder how well TP works with him and vice versa? Also wonder about percentage of opposite field hits and extra base knocks. Where might I find that?

By nOLIE

January 6, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Yeah, but he’s supposedly dead weight the rest of the bona fide offense carries. He just needs to finally put it together in one package:Braveheart

I sure never said any such thing. He improved last season to a bit above average offensively for that season in this era. He still needs to improve his plate discipline and on-base ability some more. I hope that he can continue to do so. When you add in his stellar defense there is no question but that he is a desirable RFers now. I like much about him, just can’t agree that he has been all that special offensively to this point in his career. I’m certainly hoping that in another two years or so that I can agree with such an assessment, but overall I was pretty happy with the guy last season. Just so he doesn’t do a Juan Encarnacion on us and regress after a sophmore year improvement.

By McFann

January 6, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Dear dear dear…

For one thing, uga, “verbage” isn’t a word. Didn’t you pay attention in class? For another thing, if you don’t like my posts, fine. Believe me, I’m not in any way trying to get your approval. Like ncscoots said, just scroll on by, dude. I don’t know why you keep insisting that I’m non-existing, but whatever. this baseball season I’ll have nothing to add? That may very well be, but we’ll wait and see.

Sorry if this one paragraph post hurts your eyes to read it.

Braveheart, this is long delayed, but that post about Norris, the Boogieman, and Not Right was really funny.

By Billy Walsh

January 6, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Looking through Bill James new book, a few things caught my eye.

1. As Dave mentioned…Smoltz projected to win 17 games…more than any other pitcher.

2. The subtle reference that McCann might have had a fluke year two years ago.

3. Continued success for Kelly Johnson and Matt Diaz.

4. Chuck James 12-8 with an ERA under 4.

5. Glavine a .500 pitcher

6. Soriano’s solid numbers. If his numbers are this good, do the braves have any chance or resigning him?

7. Frank Beamer or Bob Stoops? Who coached a worse bowl game?

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

UGA-Brave, you compared Francoeur to Chipper Jones and David Justice. So if he ends up falling short of Chipper, a former MVP and likely Hall of Famer, and Justice, a former NL Rookie of the Year who twice finished in the top five for league MVP and totaled 300 homers and 1,000 RBI, then Francoeur will have not had a very good career?

By the way, you’re right about OPS, because both Chipper and Justice were very patient, high-OBP guys. But did you realize Francoeur’s 40 doubles last season were more than Justice ever hit? And Francoeur’s 29 homers in his first full season in the majors were topped only three times by Justice in 13 full seasons?

Or that Francoeur’s two 100-RBI seasons in his first two full seasons in the majors is one shy of Justice’s three 100-RBI years in 13 full seasons?

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Francoeur also has one more Gold Glove than Justice.

Not saying Francoeur will have a career as good or better than Justice, just saying you should probably compare all stats, since they’re very different players. And you should probably reserve judgment on a player who just turned 24 last Tuesday.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

UGA-Brave, Jackie Earle Haley made a comeback in a major way when he was was nominated for Best Supporting Actor in the excellent 2006 movie “Little Children.”

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

But you’re right about Kelly Leak being the coolest character imaginable for us who saw Bad News Bears when it first came out and we were kids playing ball ourselves. Most of us who are in our 40s now wanted to be Kelly Leak back then, didn’t we?

I just saw the second one, Breaking Training, late one night a few weeks ago on cable. Not as good as the first (couldn’t be without Matthau), but still quite good.

By McFann

January 6, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

The subtle reference that McCann might have had a fluke year two years ago.

Don’t make me cry.

Int’resting poll on the AJC. Escobar’s got the most votes. Hmm. He does need to improve that defense BIG TIME, but huh! I’m one to go off on somebody’s D, considering the way my ATMFP (All Time Most Favorite Player) handled his in ‘07. Thing is, I think McCann will improve this year, for obvious reasons. His D surely can’t get any worse (PLEASE?!), and his O, well, that should get better.

But I’m repeating myself. I’ve typed all this stuff before. And the more I type it, the harder it will be if……

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

NCAA, regarding my top five football teams: I’m just hoping either LSU or OSU gets destroyed in the title game so that the Jayhawks have a chance of slipping in at No. 5 and I could see, for once in my lifetime, KU in the top five in both football and basketball at the same time. That’d be stellar.

Not even comparable to what UF accomplished, winning both titles, but it’d still be pretty special.

By nOLIE

January 6, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

For one thing, uga, “verbage” isn’t a word. McFann

verbage - jargon /ver’b*j/ A deliberate misspelling and mispronunciation of verbiage that assimilates it to the word “garbage”. More pejorative than “verbiage”.

By Greg in TN

January 6, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Afternoon friends and neighbors…

There’s playoff tackle football being played on North Dale Mabry in Tampa today, and while I enjoy a good playoff football game like everyone else, it’s one more sign to me that we are getting closer and closer to P&C’s reporting to Dark Star and points south and southwest for ST.

Does anyone have a better gig than Peter Moylan? He comes to the states to play ball for a living in the summer. He goes home to Australia in the offseason and it’s summer there too. There’s much to be said about snow on the ground at Christmas and sledding, skiing and such, but those days in East Tennessee are getting fewer and farther between, so give me sunshine and warm weather any day of the week.

I am hopeful of getting down next week for Braves Fest. Looking really good at the moment that I can get down I-75 for the shindig next weekend, keeping my fingers crossed here.

DOB, great job as always on the latest entry in the Braves/MIB blog.

I think Frenchy made tremendous strides last year in his plate discipline. Not everyone has a short compact swing like Bob Horner did, Frenchy’s swing reminds me very much of the Murph’s (which someone else alluded to earlier). The long arms that both guys have can be a detriment at times at the plate, however just like N8, I am not concerned with the dip in Frenchy’s power numbers last year. He doesn’t need to put up monster HR numbers in the lineup this year to be effective. If Tex goes next year, we may need to plug him in at number 4, but that’s looking too far in the future to really gauge what will happen, I prefer to concentrate on this year.

Soon tackle football on Dale Mabry will give way to the sounds of baseballs, bats and gloves with no Torre in sight. It will be interesting to see how Joe G handles it. Being a catcher in NYC is tough enough, being a manager in NYC is completely different beast altogether.

Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jack gang, I really don’t care if I never get back…

By McFann

January 6, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Nolie. So he does not like my speech or typing that uses too many words or excessively techical expressions? He thinks it’s garbage?

Oh well. That’s OK by me.

By BosnianBaller

January 6, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Anybody watching the return of American Gladiators tonight on NBC

By doc

January 6, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

dob love the add ons.

top ten in football for kansas isnt quite good enough especially if the jayhawks run close to a title? getting a bit greedy there. hope the slaughtered is a buckeye. even though i am a tech fan from birth i still wouldnt mind seeing uga in the top three. with the pull that usc has it might be hard to get over that hump but i cant see anyone else topping it off into the top three if lsu takes care of business.

By dgd

January 6, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year DOB. Just caught up reading last 2 blogs. Interesting, didn’t see any discussion about Steve Carlton in “best pitchers of past 25 years” or so discussion. I lived outside Philadelphia in the early to mid 70’s and remember that monster year he had, I think in ‘72, when he won 27 games and his entire team won about 60. It was absolutely the most dominating season by any pitcher I’ve ever seen. He also won over 300 games. He was, from what I’ve heard, a total *ss, but so what. Also, no discussion of Tom Seaver or Jim Palmer—surely they deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as other dominant right-handers like Pedro, Maddux and Rodger the ‘roider. Finally, would you be willing to re-print (or e-mail) again your top 25 list of albums for the year? Didn’t print it out when you printed it before, sorry… Thanks..

By brian

January 6, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

good points as usual DOB.

As I said last night, so what if Francoeur does not have a Chipper/Will Clark, etc swing. Neither did Dale Murphy and he did pretty well for the Braves to say the least. Even with Murph’s swing (it was no Will Clak) he was one of the most feared hitters in the NL in his prime along with Strawberry.

For people to say that Francoeur will never amount to much because he does not have Chipper’s swing is short sighted. Not many people do have Chipper’s swing. That is why he is a few more productive years away from the Hall of Fame.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DGD, Palmer, Seaver, and Carlton obviously belong in that very highest tier of modern-era pitchers. But check it out, man — I know it’s hard to believe, but you’re talking 30 or more years ago for these guys’ peaks. I said the last 25 years.

Carlton’s last great season was 1982.

Palmer had eight 20-win seasons in nine years. Unbelievable. But that was 1970-78.

And Seaver’s greatest seasons were before 1980.

By Michael Procton

January 6, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

BosBall, I’m ridiculously excited about the return of Gladiators, though the appearance of Hulkamania and the seeming douchiness of the Gladiators are early turnoffs. As for a couple of guys mentioned with the James predictions, I didn’t think it was really fair to put the Shandler predictions in there since their roles are not (IMO) quite set in stone yet, but here they are if you’re interested: James: 174 IP (really?) 13-7, 4.29, 1.33 WHIP, 133 Ks (that seems high, too)- “An up-and comer, but there are warning signs. K rate is sliding, control is marginal, and FB% remains way too high. He’s young enough to fix these issues, but if he doesn’t, the stats paint a gloomy picture.” Does that blurb really match those projected numbers?

Soriano: 3-3, 28 SV, 3.35 1.05 WHIP, 72 K in 73 IP- “Has the makings of an elite closer, if health allows. With 300 DL days in the three years prior, caution still warranted.”

By dgd

January 6, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Yes, you’re right those guys, except for Carlton and he was certainly past his prime, were more than 25 years ago. I mentioned them because others were talking about Marichel (sp) and even Spahn, and I believe you mentioned Koufax to make a point. If we’re strictly talking 25 years, it’s a pretty limited list. I spent the summer of ‘85 on Long Island and ventured into enemy territory to watch a few games at Shea (unfortunately,Rick Aguilera always seemed to be pitching and that was well before his days as a dominant closer in Minnesota) but also caught a Gooden game and he was as good as it got. (Also watched all 19 innings of the infamous Rick Camp homer game on TV, but that’s another story)…

By N8

January 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

DOB

Nicely put at 1:23. Way to stand up for the kid.

I think two “things” lead to the Braves faithful (some of them), being so hard on Francoeur.

1) In the “steroids era”, since all the numbers are inflated, some guys with good numbers are gonna be held to “higher standards” that they may never live up to. Not everybody can be David Wright, right?

2) Justice was the ONE SHINING STAR in the 2nd half of the 1990 season. Not even Glavine, Avery and Smoltz were “tearing it up” and even giving a remote glimpse of what was to come in 1991. Justice won the ROY in 1990 pretty much based on his numbers AFTER Dale Murphy was traded at the deadline. He performed very well and was a breath of fresh air compared to the HORRID offense we had been watching for the last half of the 80’s.

Francoeur is EXPECTED to uphold the tradition that has been set in Atlanta by guys like Chipper, Justice himself, Gant, Big Cat, Javy, McGriff, etc, etc….

Kinda like my T-Wolves. How would you like to be the alleged “next” Kevin Garnett?? Good luck with that. You think ANYBODY in Chicago, is ever gonna excite anybody the way that Jordan did? Not in our lifetime.

Francoeur is BETTER than most Braves fans are giving him credit for, while Justice is slightly overrated by Braves fans, due to the BIGGEST hit/HR in Atlanta Braves history, and a stellar half of a season in 1990. He was pretty good in 1993 as well (if I remember correctly he, McGriff and Gant ALL finished in the Top 10 in the MVP voting - won by Barroid of course. LOL!)

By StingerSplash

January 6, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

DOB,

How about the great performance, not by William Devane, but by Bob Watson and Cesar Cedeno in Breaking Training? Wait … there’s a football stadium on Dale Mabry Blvd? I thought the only thing was the Mo … never mind.

By N8

January 6, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

I was wrong about Justice, Gant and McGriff all finishing in the Top 10 in NL MVP voting.

They all finished in the TOP FIVE!!

None of them received any 1st place votes (Bonds-24 & Dykstra-4….hmmmmm.)

In fact, the Braves had 6 guys finish in the Top 25 in the MVP voting

3rd: Justice

4th: McGriff

5th: Gant

13th: Maddux

16th: Blauser (LOL! - that’s funny)

24th: Glavine (tied with John Wetteland).

So who out there STILL wants to repeatedly rag on the Red Sox and Yankees for “buying” their roster.

Face it people, in the Mid-90’s, we WERE the Yankees. Except we only won one WS.

I actually remember headlines reading “The rich get richer” when we signed Maddux, traded for McGriff and later on when we traded for Neagle.

Ted……Are you anywhere out there? LOL!

By McFann

January 6, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

I’m hard on Francoeur because sometimes I get tired of his face being plastered all over everything. That Delta commercial in ‘06 did it for me. That was too much. It’s those kinds of things that make me tend to “dislike”—for lack of a better word—certain players. I mean, good grief!! Nobody could hit a ball across the world, let’s be realistic. But that was a long time ago. In present times, it’s when every little thing is about Francoeur. Like, did anybody see those ads for “Spotlight on Jeff Francoeur” last year? Oy. I saw part of it during a rain delay, and sheesh…His then-girl friend Katie was like, “Are you a super hero?” Eash. And she said something like, “Is there anything you can’t do?” Psh!! Of course there is. Nobody’s perfect! I’m just glad they didn’t or don’t do stuff like that with McCann. But see, he wouldn’t want them to…

By N8

January 6, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

McFann

I don’t live in the Atlanta area, and don’t pay for the baseball package. I choose to sit online and blog while I listen online.

However, with TBS going to the “non-Braves” broadcasting this season, I’m gonna have to shell out the dough for the MLB package. On top of that, I’m gonna have to get another Digital cable receiver. As of now, I only have one digital cable receiver/DVR in the house, and the wife pretty much controls that with the 7000 shows she watches.

So, nothing like kicking out another 12 dollars a month for the receiver on top of what the package is.

Maybe I’ll just stick with the online radio stream. LOL!

So….having said all of THAT. I have NOT been subjected to all of the Francoeur propaganda. But if it’s ANYTHING like all the Vikings/Twins/T-Wolves crap I have to put up with (actually the Twins commercials are pretty funny), I understand. Though, it’s MUCH more annoying when you don’t like the teams or players being forced down your throat.

Speaking of the funny Twins commercials, I have to describe one, it actually makes me laugh thinking about it.

Johan Santana and Joe Nathan are in a car driving, (Johnan is driving), and nobody is saying anything, but Johan keeps stepping on the gas and then slamming on the breaks. This goes on for a minute or so (I suppose it’s actually about 20 seconds, since it’s probably a 30 second commercial). Finally, Nathan says something to the effect of can’t you go a little faster? Why do you always have to be going fast and then slowing down, etc….

Anyhow. Kinda funny. Not as good as the “chicks dig the longball”, nike ads. But funny none the less.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

McFann, your 5:59 post had the same effect on me that Francoeur’s Delta commercial had on you. Only worse….

DGD, I can e-mail them to you, but really you can just go download them again now since both the blogs with the Top 25 and the second 25 are still up. Just check the Braves page, there’s about 4-5 past blogs still posted.

But if you still want me to e-mail them to you (they’ll have coding and such for the boldface and italics), then send me an e-mail and I’ll cut-and-paste them in a reply.

Probably be easier for you to just go look at those old blogs, though.

By N8

January 6, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

OK. So I was a little off on my memory of the commercial. But the general idea is there. Here’s a link.

Santana/Nathan Commercial

Enjoy.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

I had Francoeur’s birthday wrong. It wasn’t last week; it’s this Tuesday. He’s still 23.

By McFann

January 6, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

N8

I’m sorry you won’t be able to watch Braves games like you used to. TBS really ticked me off for taking the Braves away from all you out-of-town fans. > P

It MUCH more annoying when you don’t like the teams or players being forced down your throat

I thought I made myself clear: I don’t really like Francoeur. Though the sheer irony of it all is that in ‘05 I was more for Jeff and referred to McCann as McCan’t for much of the year. Creepy. I know. Then on March fifth I came to my senses and realized that I was more…Am I typing too much? Good land.

DOB

Sorry. But that’s the way I feel.

By N8

January 6, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’ve been “away” for a while, essentially only checking your posts for any “THIS JUST IN” type of news.

Is this McFann guy a Mets troll in disguise, do I need to NOT waste keystrokes on him?

By McFann

January 6, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

N8

I have never been so insulted in all my life!! How dare you insinuate that I’m really a Mets fan!! I don’t care if you don’t waste keystrokes on me!! I am a Braves fan!! I despise the Mets!! Sheesh!! I…I think I’m going to cry…

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 6, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

I think we all know Francouer is not and probably will not ever be the pure hitter Chipper is/was and will be remembered as. But I would think Frenchy’s age 23 stats including OPS and OPS+ compare well to CJ and Justice. Francouer at age 23 in 642 ABs; .293/.338/.444. 19 HR and OPS of .782. CJ at age 23 in 524 ABs as a rookie; .265/353/450. 23 HR and an OPS of .803. Justice only had 51 ABs at age 23, so I am listing his Age 24 stats. In 439 ABs he hit .282/373/535 with 28 HRs and ROY honors. I too hope Francouer shows continued improvement as he is now the age where CJ and Justice entered the Majors. We will need his offensive to improve this year to offset the loss of Renteria and AJ.

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Glavine must not really enjoy those front two teeth. 1st the taxi accident in NY and now you are going to practice with the Thrashers…..he does know the puck moves faster than his blazing fastball right????

By Lew

January 6, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Nathan-MetroDude has been the only Mets’ fan around lately. He has been civil. We have, too.

By N8

January 6, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

McFann

“I have never been so insulted in all my life!!”

“I thought I made myself clear: I don’t really like Francoeur. Though the sheer irony of it all is that in ‘05 I was more for Jeff and referred to McCann as McCan’t for much of the year.”

Judging by what DOB said to you in response to your 5:59, and the two comments above, I’m gonna assume that “all my life” refers to all 12 that you have been alive.

DOB doesn’t respond with that much angst to anybody that hasn’t asked for it. So without trolling back through the past two weeks worth of posts, I’m gonna assume that you’ve spouted your mouth off and annoyed/insulted our fearless leader.

You gotta go all “Robert” on somebody to pizz him off.

So what did you say?

By N8

January 6, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Anybody else out there watching the 60 Minutes interview with Clemens?

While I commend him for coming forward and doing an interview, I’m just not sure I find him believable.

Something “shifty” about his eyes, as Mike Wallace asks him questions.

The more he talks/answers questions, the more guilty he looks/sounds.

By Clemens-GUILTY

January 6, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

This is a typical guilty person’s response. I’d tell you clowns, but I’d be betraying sources and methods.

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

The Mets acquired outfielder Angel Pagan on Saturday from the Chicago Cubs for a pair of minor leaguers.

Outfielder Corey Coles and righthanded pitcher Ryan Meyers were sent to the Cubs.

The 26-year-old Pagan batted .264 with four home runs and 21 RBIs for Chicago last year.

“Angel is young, athletic and has the versatility to play all three outfield positions,” New York general manager Omar Minaya said in a statement.

Pagan was originally drafted by the Mets in the fourth round in 1999. He was traded to the Cubs for cash Jan. 25, 2006.

See, told you guys we were going to the World Series. Our power GM has found the missing piece to take us to the top, if only Pagan could pitch 6 innings every 5th day. I’m so glad the NL East still sucks like the NL Central. From 2006 on, we will have a new division winner until a GM who can take over this division arrives and uses his brains!!!

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

McFann: It is perfectly fine to be a METS fan. You have the “Fann” part going for you. Keep the ‘M”, drop the “C” and replace it with “ETS” and you are well on your way to being the 1 of the millions of baseball fans who roots for the METS. Nothing wrong with finding out you were living a lie. Now come and say hi to your METS family!!!

By McFann

January 6, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

N8

I honestly don’t know what I said to make DOB mad. I can go through some of my past stuff sometime, but I just don’t know how I insulted him. Annoyed? Sure. That wouldn’t surprise me. In the words of Kevin from HOME ALONe, “I’ve been kind of a pain lately. I said some things I shouldn’t have. I really haven’t been too good this year.” And it upsets me, because I really like this blog––even though sometimes I say I don’t. Sometimes, I even think I don’t. Do you get that?

Maybe the whole Brady Bunch thing upset him, IDK.

I’m older than 12, and you’re the one who “insulted” me by mistaking me for a Mets fan.

By AdirondackDave

January 6, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Roger the dodger didn’t convince me. That lame avoidance of lie detector test sure didn’t help him.

By McFann

January 6, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

MetMan

I will NEVER come over to your side!! I will NOT give in to you!! I am not living a lie, but THE TRUTH!! I will NEVER become a member of your little group!! NEVER!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

This just in: Roger has returned his 2007 supply of HGH making it available to buy 1 shot in the buttocks, get a second free between the toes for 2008. Get them while supplies last, the 2008 minor leaguers are on their way.

METSFANN (Mcfann): Denying your love for them will make it harder for you to leave the lie. Its ok to be a METS fan, I personally invite you to take a leap of faith. I got a ticket with your name on it, for the 2008 METS playoffs!!

By McFann

January 6, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry, people. I’m really tired. And I think this blog fried my brain temporarily. (Please don’t take offense, oh Master of the Blog. It’s my own fault, really.)

By N8

January 6, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

McFann

“I’m older than 12, and you’re the one who “insulted” me by mistaking me for a Mets fan.”

Wasn’t trying to insult anybody. There is a lot of posts on this blog, by many people (actually it’s usually one person), claiming to be someone they’re not (if that’s possible on an anonymous blog). That being said, without me being around for a while, I was legitimately asking DOB (or anybody caring to answer - which Lew did), if you were a Mets troll starting sh!t.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Now if you wanna be insulted by me assuming you’re 12, that’s fine. :-)

By McFann

January 6, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

No, MetMan, I can’t do it! I won’t do it!! You can’t make me do it!! I’m a Braves fan forever!! You do not have a ticket with my name on it for the 2008 Mets playoffs because

A) You don’t know my name

2) You don’t know that the Mets are going to the playoffs, and

D) I’d only go to a Mets playoff game if they were going to play the Braves, and I don’t know if that will ever happen, PERIOD!!

N8, I wasn’t really insulted by what you said.

By David Wright

January 6, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

McCann, I am your father.

By Willy Wally

January 6, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

I’m a Braves fan forever!!

You were Francoeur’s BFF 4ever once as well. But then he had the nerve to appear in a commercial and you found him yucky and quit on him. Your comments above sound like you are suffering from some old fashioned Catie envy. She once came in second in a class president race, haven’t you heard?

While I’m on that topic, how much nerd rage do you suffer from if you remember who came in second in a high school class president race? Who the heck remembers who came in first? Never mind second.

By McFann

January 6, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

I do know your name Mcfann, its called METSFANN. Dont worry, we wont make you go through the brave de-programming, we’ll just shove METS goodies down your throat. David Wright said its past your bedtime.

By DAP

January 6, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

uga-brave time for jeff to step up and become our thid best hitter.

amen, brother. thats exactly what needs to happen. and, i predict its exactly what will happen. i think frenchy will position himself this year to be our cleanup hitter in ‘09 if we need him to be. he’s already a guy that pitchers dont want to face in tight situations.

another brave to keep an eye on: kelly johnson. i think he will do well this year (better than those projections show, in avg and obp) and by 2010, hes gonna compare to chase utley.

By McCanned-Ham

January 6, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

McFann, when I saw that Delta Commercial I ate too much canned ham. You know what they say, you are what you eat- McCanned Ham! Yummy!

By McFann

January 6, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Willy Willy, you’re my first victim.

Yuck. I decided I wasn’t a big Francoeur fan long before the commercial came out. Catie envy? That’s disturbing. I don’t attend Parkview, I’m home schooled. If that’s a problem, tough. I was never Jeff’s BFF, (and you said “Best Friend Forever 4ever, BTW) As a matter of fact, Julio Franco was my favorite when Jeff came along, and still was until Julio left. Then, I needed a new favorite, so I “chose” McCann because…uh…well…I…uh…that’s too embarrassing to tell you people…Besides, David’s Wright: It’s past my bed time.

By N8

January 6, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

McFann

“N8, I wasn’t really insulted by what you said.”

I didn’t think so. But you never know what kind of sensitive quasi-Fiona Apple whiny little girl you’re dealing with. LOL!

By doc

January 6, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

speaking of david wright he even ended up on the celebrity apprentice program last night. he is literally everywhere.

By DAP

January 6, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

N8 So who out there STILL wants to repeatedly rag on the Red Sox and Yankees for “buying” their roster. Face it people, in the Mid-90’s, we WERE the Yankees. Except we only won one WS.

i dont really get the camparison. only two of the guys you mentioned (crime dog and mad dog) werent homegrown braves, and mcgriff was traded for, not bought in free agency. the braves werent really like what the yankees and red sox are now. not at all.

By Willy Wally

January 6, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

the braves werent really like what the yankees and red sox are now. not at all.

when they traded justice and grissom, the braves had the highest payroll in all of baseball.

By Willy Wally

January 6, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

In the words of Kevin from HOME ALONe, “I’ve been kind of a pain lately. I said some things I shouldn’t have. I really haven’t been too good this year.”

wow. it’s not everyday you get such a lame movie reference.

By N8

January 6, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Doc

“speaking of david wright he even ended up on the celebrity apprentice program last night. he is literally everywhere.”

I just started laughing when he “showed up”, and my wife didn’t quite see what was so funny. I didn’t bother explaining to her.

She wouldn’t have “got it” anyhow. That or she would have called me a nerd and told me to go back to my 7th grade girls “gossip” club.

And, YES. She has referred to the blog in that manner before. I’ve corrected her, and made it known that it is the MIB/Braves blog and we are ALL sophisticated adults, and informed her that she better “Back off b!tch!”.

OK. No I didn’t. But a guy can imagine things, right?

By Roman Gal

January 6, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

That or she would have called me a nerd and told me to go back to my 7th grade girls “gossip” club.

Wow! What did she talk about when she was in seventh grade…

By DAP

January 6, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

willy wally when they traded justice and grissom, the braves had the highest payroll in all of baseball.

having a high payroll isnt the only thing that makes the yankees and the red sox the teams that “buy championships”

the braves had a high payroll because they hung onto thier own players, not because they were taking everyone else’s once they hit free angency, which is what the yankees do.

By N8

January 6, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

DAP

The comparison, is valid in the fact that the Braves (Ted) were willing to spend WHATEVER it took win, and keep their team together.

I hear what you are saying. When arguing with my Yankees buddies, I would ALWAYS mention that most of our WS winning team was “home grown”. You know, other than McGriff, Grissom, Maddux, Devereaux, Polonia, Rafael Belliard, and Dwight Smith, Charlie O’Brien, hell throw Smoltz in there too, since I consider TRULY homegrown talent to be guys we drafted. Not too many of those guys were that important, were they? LOL!

That being said. I stand by what I said. Ted spent money and seemingly didn’t ask questions. JS raped the weak and poor (SD and Montreal in the McGriff and Grissom deals), and was able to sway Maddux (even though Yankees offered more money), because in those days EVERYBODY wanted to play for the Braves.

There was NEVER a thought at the trade deadline of whether we were going to be buyers or sellers, like there has been in recent years.

Odds were, we were gonna be buyers, we were gonna get the best player available, and pay less than the other guy’s favorite team was.

JUST LIKE the Yankees. Only difference in us and the Yankees is that JS very rarely was HUGE into the free agency. MOST of the money JS spent on “free agents” was retaining the ones we drafted and developed, and (or), traded for.

10 years ago, not only would there be NO QUESTION of whether Tex was gonna remain a Brave, the deal would already be done. Even with Boras. Because players wanted to play here.

Just like players want to play for the Yankees or Red Sox.

Who wouldn’t want to play for a perennial winner, with ownership willing to seemingly spend at all costs, to continue the winning ways?

So. Your objection is noted, yet I’m gonna have to over-rule on the “i dont really get the camparison.” comment.

Sorry.

By doc

January 6, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

n8, hated to admit it and it took me 24 hours to do it. i too about fell off the chair when he showed up to make his donation and generously tell all the rest of the dogs were free on him. what a guy. NO A POSER.

the things one will do for a woman to even be caught watching. my bad! and what is it about women feeling impinged upon by blogs. this is serious stuff where we learn about the world of the braves, music and film, essentially broaden our lives. cant get any better than that except drinking beer together in person at manuel’s like they used to do in the olden days.

glad to know someone has claimed to be mcfann,s father. ;-)). kidding.

By DAP

January 6, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

N8 understood.

By N8

January 6, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

DAP

“the braves had a high payroll because they hung onto thier own players, not because they were taking everyone else’s once they hit free angency, which is what the yankees do.”

Again. See my previous point about Tex.

JS has NEVER been huge on the free agent market..EVER.

I’ll list guys that actually started for us, and whether they were heavily sought after guys.

1991: Bream, TP and Belliard. (not so sure anybody wanted ANY of them).

1993: Maddux (again, the Yankees outbid us. he wanted to play for a “winner” and NOT be in NY)

1998: Galarraga and Weiss.

1999: Brian Jordan

After that, other than mediocre (at best) pitchers like Thomsen, Byrd, Burkett, etc… he’s NEVER gone after the guys that he would have to get in a bidding war over.

JS’s plan has always been to stock the farm system. Retain the homegrown talent (that is worth committing to long-term), trade prospects for young guys with 1 or 2 years left on their contract, and when those contracts are up LOCK THEM UP LONGTERM!.

Examples of this:

1993: McGriff

1995: Grissom

1996: Neagle

2002: Sheffield

Or guys that NOBODY wanted anymore, and he would get the old club to pay most of the salary remaining.

Hampton comes to mind. Renteria comes to mind.

I’m sure he had that in mind with JD Drew.

Add to that, that JS (similar to what Cleveland has done recently with their young talent), ALWAYS locked up the young guys before their final years of arbitration, and to ensure getting the best years of their careers, without a bidding war, all while helping those young guys become financially secure, well before their first free-agent situation. Examples:

Chipper, Klesko, Javy, Glavine and Smoltz got deals shortly after the 1992 season. More recently McCann, and as DOB has stated recently, Francoeur is soon to follow.

Just because JS wasn’t the ambulance chaser that Epstein and Cashman have turned into, doesn’t mean he didn’t fleece the market as well.

My how things changed the MOMENT that Maddux accepted arbitration, huh?

By N8

January 6, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

doc

THIS JUST IN.

David Wright is taking over for Trump on Celebrity Apprentice.

By dgd

January 6, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Found the music lists—didn’t realize the old blogs were still there. Thanks!

By Randy S

January 7, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

Has anyone been to a Thrashers practice/know how long they last?

By Roman Gal

January 7, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

“The more you degrade your opponents, the less significant your victories over them become.”

By Nolie

January 7, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

I fail to see how it is being tough on a player with a 100 OPS+ to say that he is average since that is in fact the exact definition of a 100 OPS+. As for using different stats for different players…cherry pickin’ anybody? Could we get any less scientific? It’s kinda like saying that you wanna use a different formula for gravity at the place where you live cause you don’t like how much you will weigh if you use the same one that everybody else is subjected to. LOL. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of the scientific approach of stats. But hey, whatever….

By Bubdylan

January 7, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, in your CD musings I haven’t heard you mention Robert Plant & Alison Krauss’s project, “Raising Sand”. It’s freaking gorgeous. Thanks for your blog.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 7, 2008 5:41 AM | Link to this

Hello again…

I know this is a little off-topic, but it’s not getting much press on the Big Ten Netw… Uh, I mean, ESPN… And I think it deserves a little spotlight.

Did anyone see the “open letter to fans” that Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently released?? It appears the Big Tenistas are at it again. He was apparently responding to an article suggesting the SEC had signed better and faster recruits than the Big Ten in February. I would try to give a quick summary, but I’m not sure my words would do justice. Better you hear it from the (literal) horse’s mouth. Here are some excerpts:

“I love speed and the SEC has great speed, especially on the defensive line, but there are appropriate balances when mixing academics and athletics…”

Okay… So, speed=stupid… No, please… Proceed…

“Each school, as well as each conference, simply must do what fits their mission regardless of what a recruiting service recommends… winning our [Big Ten’s] way requires some discipline and restraint with the recruitment process.”

Alright… So you’re saying that the Big Ten’s mission is to maintain a stellar 53% graduation rate like Ohio State (as opposed to LSU’s 51%)?? I’m having a little trouble following, sir…

“Not every athlete fits athletically, academically or socially at every university. Fortunately, we have been able to balance our athletic and academic mission so that we can compete successfully and keep faith with our academic standards.”

Eureka! So, if I’m reading this correctly:

Fast players = Recruits that are academically and socially unacceptable.

Hmmmm… Hmmmmmmmm…. Which “fast” SEC athletes are you referring to, Mr. Delaney??? I suppose the SEC’s majority of Public Universities should probably only offer academic opportunity to the brighter, surlier athletes. Or maybe you’re suggesting that “fast” players just aren’t socially acceptable at THE Big Ten University.

I’ve thought about it a lot, Commisioner Delaney, and I wish to respectfully disagree… Just because you look at a primarily “fast” football team and assume they do not perform well academically, doesn’t mean you’re evident ignorance and arrogance make it so. You, sir, are a racist a*****.

Someone needs to get over Ohio State’s dismal 0-8 record against the SEC in bowl games.

Anyway kids, Dan Wetzel responded to this bafoon’s ramblings much more eloquently than I could have. Here’s a link:

Dan Wetzel at Rivals.com

Still, congrats to Michigan for chomping the Gators. Even if your commissioner is a blowhard bigot.

By Nolie

January 7, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this

John Walsh of Baseball Times is out with his annual ranking of outfield arms Francoeur is 2nd behind Mike Cuddyer. Druw was in the middle of the pack and Diaz was towards the bottom

By Jay

January 7, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/why-the-replacements-saved-my-life/

By Roger Clemens

January 7, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Son, we played a game that has walls and those walls need to be guarded against men with bats. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Joe Fan? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Dale Murphy and curse the Yankees; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that my career, while tragic and grotesque and incomprehensible to you, won pennants. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties you want me on that mound, you need me on that mound. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to win pennants. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very pennants I provided and then questions the manner in which I provided it. I would rather you just said “thank you,” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a glove and stand on a mound. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

With Diaz towards the bottom? I guess that makes sense. Now if that guy was ranking outfielders in hitting, Diaz would be near the top and Francoeur would be near the bottom……IMO

By DAP

January 7, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

McFann, when does school start back?

By McFann

January 7, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Starts back today, DAP. But still expect to read from me. This is “debating class.”

By 21 Jumpstreet

January 7, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

McFann is the newest member of 21 Jumpstreet. Creepy thirty somethings posing as teens.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

McFann i never took a debating class per say, but i took many classes where a debate was an assignment. i dont think “sheesh” and “psh!” gains a debater credibility.

glad youll still be around :-)

By Lew

January 7, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

McFann-If you continue to denigrate Francoeur’s hitting ability, all you will accomplish is to prove exactly how little you really know and understand about baseball.

The man hit close to .300 last year and has twice(in his first two full seasons) been in the top ten in the NL in RBI. I’m not certain exactly what you or his other detractors hope to prove with your constant barrage of Bovine Excrement in this regard, but it makes no sense and is accomplishing nothing but to broadcast your ignorance on the subject.

Now I realize you are extremely thin skinned and are likely to take umbrage at being told you don’t know what you’re talking about, but damn it-you don’t.

By David-ATL14

January 7, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Greg in Tennessee, What sleepy little burg in East Tennessee do you live in?

From the area myself.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Lew not to mention the fact that hes done nothing but improve since he’s been here and 2007 should have been his rookie year.

By TennesseePaul

January 7, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Add to that, that JS (similar to what Cleveland has done recently with their young talent), ALWAYS locked up the young guys before their final years of arbitration

Minus, of course, Rookie of the Year, Rafeal Furcal, a young player, not locked up before Free Agency whom the Braves were out bid to retain his services.

DAP: Sheeeesh isn’t good debate terminology? C’mon. Say it with a high pitched voice and imagine a heavy set thin guy rolling back on his heals. It becomes quite comical and makes for a great ice breaker. The more e’s and the higher the pitch, the funnier it gets. Sheeeeeeeesh.

By TennesseePaul

January 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

John Walsh of Baseball Times is out with his annual ranking of outfield arms Francoeur is 2nd behind … David Wright.

By BossLady

January 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Francoeur, McCann, K Johnson, K Davies, Langerhans all came up in the Braves organization. Real fans have watched them grow and develop as MLB players. It is an honor to watch these young men become successful and start to make big money. I liked the Francoeur commercials because it did me good to see my hometown kid make it big. Not only as a fan but as a person who see others prosper, I find only good. It takes a certain kind of real life experience to understand.

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

How come more people think yunel will be the one to get better?, i think there is not much room for him to get a lot better. He is already a star in all aspects of the game. I voted for Jeff, since i think there is much to improve at the plate, specially patience, and i think he will do better there.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

I know Francoeur’s a good hitter. But I don’t think he’s has great as people make him out to be…yet. You’re correct, sometimes I don’t know what I’m talking about. It drives me insane. Like I said a while ago, I’ve only lived, slept, and ate baseball for the past 2+ years, so sure, there are going to times when I say something stupid because I’m trying to get in on something I don’t know too much about. I’ve gathered that outfielders usually hit a good amount of homers. Francoeur only hit 19, and I find that to be below the amount that everyone thinks he cann hit. It wasn’t so much his average as it was his home run and strikeout total that bothered me. I know he’s good. Yes, yes he’s good. He just bugs me ‘cause he’s always all over everything! I just think he’s a tad bit overrated—but not as much as some players. No, I don’t understand everything about baseball, as you will pro’bly find out this baseball season.

Can’t I be excused because of my youth? ; )

Aw, c’mon, “Sheesh” is a great word. Now, “psh” we cann do without—sorry about that one. “Sheesh” is just my way of showing sheer displeasure, I guess.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

I’m with you, Overlord. There’s much room for Francoeur to improve at the plate. Though some people around here think he’s as good as he’ll ever be. As a matter of fact, that somewhat of an insult—to think he can’t get any better.

BossLady……Whatever.

By A concerned parent

January 7, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Does McFann ever go to school?

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

“I’ve gathered that outfielders usually hit a good amount of homers.”

Two-plus years of watching baseball and you’ve deduced that, huh? Quite perceptive.

By MGL

January 7, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Jeepers Creepers, McFann. Your 11:37 was super!!

By McFann

January 7, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Gee wiz, Mr. O’Brien, aren’t you the cheery, happy fellow. Did you read my post? I said I say stupid things all the time!

Yes, I do go to school.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan, I’ve got same review for “Raising Sand” as you: It’s beautiful, man. Great CD. Probably should’ve made my list. I mentioned how much I liked it the day I bought it and the new Yoakam CD and played them both several times while driving through northern Arizona. Great stuff. “Please Read The Letter” is an incredible song.

Girlfriend and I played that CD a few times last week on drive to Charleston. It’s great driving music….

Frankly, it and about 10 other CDs could’ve subbed for 10 on the list; there were that many fresh, original, excellent CDs out in 2007. Couldn’t care less that album sales are down, which is merely a reflection of the singles-downloading populace, not of the quality of recorded music, which was excellent last year.

Speaking of, just played the Ryan Bingham “Mescalito” and Babyshambles “Shotter’s Nation” CDs this morning. Pete Doherty (Babyshambles) may be a bit of a self-destructive idiot, but the man can make some great music.

By Thrillhouse44

January 7, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, did you see my post over the weekend about the live Ghostface Killah/Rhythm Roots Allstars CD a buddy gave me? Sound quality of the vocals is pretty weak (like all live rap), but it’s a pretty cool CD. I can burn you a copy if you’re interested.

By N8

January 7, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

To the person who did the Roger Clemens post, using the “A Few Good Men” twist.

BRAVO! Actually made me laugh outloud. Great movie. Great scene. Great parody.

Wierd Al would be proud. Kudos to you.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 7, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

DOB - have you heard the REM news? the new album (“Accelerate”) has a release date of April 1, and the website Ninety Nights is running daily video clips from Jan. 1 to April 1. so far the clips have been pretty cool and worth checking out.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

No McFann-Youth (if in fact you ARE young), is getting to be too handy and convenient an excuse. We’ve all tried to tell you before-If you don’t know what you’re talking about then just don’t say anything. If you still insist on running your mouth about what you admittedly know little or nothing about, then at least, go to Baseball Reference.Com and do some research on the players and at least make informed statements.

Francoeur is a young player. Yes, his HR totals dropped last year. However….He improved his Batting average by almost 30 points. He improved his On Base Percentage (OBP) by 30 points. These are significant stats (even according to Shaun). He did this conciously, by improving on his patience and pitch selection, which he and everyone else realized were areas that required improvement.

For his entire career he has proven to be one of the best two out run producers in all of baseball. His penchant for driving in runs in tight situations ranks up there with ARod and Pujols (some quite incredible company). He has thrown out more runners from right field than any other player in all of MLB since he came up.

Yes, Home Runs are cool. I realize that Chicks Dig The Long Ball (and yes, I realize THAT ad campaign may well have been before your time). But I would rather have Francoeur up with runners in scoring position (RISP) than anyone short of Chipper Jones. He has come through time and again. TGHAT is what counts-NOT how he drives them in.

To sum it all up. Yes, Francouer is and will be “all that”, and you need to think before you type.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

McFann one of the best ways to learn alot about baseball is to read this blog thoroughly without posting very much. not saying i wish you didnt post…i mean im not gonna actually SAY that, but if you really want to learn baseball, just absorb the blog.

i dont think francouer is overrated at all by people on the blog. i think we know exactly what we have in the guy and are excited since hes done so much at such a young age.

19 homers isnt that much for a corner outfielder, but 100 RBIs is good for anybody. i would love for francouer to hit alot of homers, and i think he will(i dont think he’ll ever hit 40, but i think he will become a consistent 30+ homer guy) but i care alot about RBIs, because runs win games. he is a great situational hitter, with a RISP avg over .350.

i drives me nuts for people o complain about frenchy’s offense…he’s got alot of things he does well, and alot of things he is obviously improving on, but the guy gets results, and when the game can be won with a hit, he is right there with chipper as the guys i want to see at the plate.

do you know that frenchy’s 105 RBIs rank 21st in the majors last year? and he #10 in RBIs among major league outfielders. only two fo the guys ahead of him are gold glovers.

this is from a guy who was rushed to the majors and not expected to contribute for the first time until 2007. if this was frenchy’s rookie year, how pumped would we be?

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

CAB, tell that fella he is the Big 10 commish, not the Ivy League commish.

Thrillhouse, sorry I didn’t respond this weekend. Figured your honey occupies most of your time on the weekends so you wouldn’t be checking in until you got to work on Monday. When is your wedding, anyway? But, yeah, I’d love to check out that Ghostface/Rhythm Roots CD. Email me at kennydoyle33@yahoo.com

Nollie, I think Frenchy can be average and special. The dude was 23 years old. He should have spent most or all of 2005 in the AA and most or all of 2006 in AAA and been eased into the lineup in 2007 like Brandon Jones will be next year. To keep his head above water while being average despite being called up at 21 and only playing 80 games in the minors above A ball is pretty special.

McFann, How could anyone criticize Frenchy for “only hitting 19 homers”? Pretty clueless if you ask me. The dude sacrficed his calling card last year because he was listening to the coaches and experimenting in order to become a better overall hitter, which he became. Did you want him to remain a 30 home running hitting .260 hitter? You probably did since you have this twisted hatred of a young player on your own team. Come on, I can hate vets like Raul Mondesi, B.J. Surhoff, Dan Kolb with the best of them but it is hard to hate young players on my own team.

Overlord, Yunel is pretty darn solid but he needs to work on his plate patience as well. Frenchy saw 3.44 pitches per plate appearance and Yunel only saw 3.54 pitches per plate appearances. Kinda concerning if he is gonna hit at the top of the order. Yunel had an extremely high BABIP. That was mostly because he not only made contact but made very solid contact. But ya gotta figure pitchers will start pitching him differently next year now that they know more about him and his aggressiveness might hurt him. He won’t strike out like Frenchy because Yunel makes better contact. However, Yunel’s ability to make contact might hurt him if he is too aggressive with bad pitches. The balls he makes contact with might not be as soundly hit as they were last year. This could cause a drop in average. And, although he draws more walks than Frenchy, he still does not draw enough walks to keep his OBP very high if his AVG dips.

But, with that being said, Yunel has shown that he is wise beyond his years as a player and hitter. He probably has the ability to adapt. His aggressiveness last year might have just been they were throwing him fat pitches he could not help but hack away at and line all around the yard. If they throw him bad pitches all of a sudden, he just might be able to lay off and draw more walks than he did last year.

Who knows? We’ll see. Part of the great fun of baseball is the younguns and watching them develop, struggle, adapt, and either succeed or fail. With the older fellas, it is too predicatable and we generally know what we are gonna get and get extremely ticked off when we don’t get it.

By scott

January 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard any more up to date news an which players are going to be coming to Fan Fest, especially the alumni and prospects. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

After hearing Roger Clemens’ claim to have taken lidocaine injections (not steroids) and to have done so “for my joints,” I did some quick online research on lidocaine and its uses in injectible form, and here’s what I found at MedicineNet.com:

USES: Injectable lidocaine is used to numb an area before surgery or before another medical procedure.

HOW TO USE: This medication is injected into the body (e.g., into a muscle or under the skin) as directed by your doctor. The dosage and location of the injection depends on your condition and response to the drug. Before using, check this product visually for particles or discoloration. If either is present, do not use the liquid. Learn all preparation and usage instructions in the product package. If any of the information is unclear, consult your doctor or pharmacist. Learn how to store and discard needles and medical supplies safely. Consult your pharmacist.

Hmmm…. So I guess that either Roger Clemens was using lidocaine for multiple surgeries on his buttocks, or he was told by someone that injecting it in his butt was good for his joints and Roger said, “OK, good, let’s do it,” or perhaps, must maybe, he’s lying.

Now, I’m thinking that he’s not had multiple surgeries on his buttocks. And that no doctor or trainer told him it that injecting lidocaine into his butt was good for his joints.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

McFann also, your apparent youth is exactly what has saved you from being run off of the blog, im pretty sure of it.

most people i think put up with more annoyance from young people because thats just the way kids are. but, if you never grow and mature, id venture to say the blog will not be so kind to you in the future.

here’s a question for you to research that you might enjoy. in everyone’s projected lineups they have chipper batting third and tex batting 4th. why? why is that better than tex batting third and chipper batting 4th? ill be interested to see what you come up with.

By TNRON

January 7, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

it is better to remain silent and thought an idiot than to speak and remove all doubt.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 7, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

RE: lidocaine.

Thank you. Isn’t that also the stuff the dentist injects for numbing before he/she fires up the drill?

How a shot of that stuff in the heiny could ease pain in your joints is a real puzzler.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse, haven’t checked any of the clips out yet. Have you heard any of the songs? Does it sound like earlier REM? (I’d heard it was more upbeat than the recent studio albums)….

Daybed, if the Ghostface is that good, I’d take a copy, sure. Send me an e-mail (dobrien@ajc.com) and I’ll give you the work address.

By the way, we’ve never discussed The Roots, but I’m assuming you’re into them, right? The Phrenology CD, the live CD, plus Things Fall Apart, and even the Tipping Point CD from a few years back was so strong — or at least a few tracks on it were. “Somebody’s Gotta Do It” popped up on my shuffle last night when I was on the treadmill, that’s why reminded me to bring up the subject. Great tune.

Also, you ever get that Immortal Technique “Revolutionary Vol. II” CD? If not, check out songs “Point of No Return” or “Freedom of Speech” if you can download them somewhere.

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I dont think the problem with jeff is his RBI total or 2 out RBI. Far from that he will become a real superstar (chippers caliber superstar) the moment he shows the league that he wont be swinging just for the heck of it, that if he is not given a good pitch to dismantle, he will take the walk. The moment he shows that simple but huge characteristic he will not go a step forward but he will jump to another level, superstar level. And people, dont think that he is far from it, it could happen in the blink of an eye. The tools are there.

By N8

January 7, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

DOB

FANTASTIC “find” on the lidocaine injections.

The guy is lying through his teeth so much, they might actually fall out.

BTW, something about the word “buttocks” that reminds me of Forest Gump. So I hope it doesn’t offend you that when I read that post, I “used” the Gump voice in my head.

WOW. Something about Mondays that make me wierd.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

here’s a question for you to research that you might enjoy. in everyone’s projected lineups they have chipper batting third and tex batting 4th. why? why is that better than tex batting third and chipper batting 4th? ill be interested to see what you come up with.

here’s another question, why did bobby cox prefer to hit chipper fourth and drew and sheff third despite chipper not being a big fan of it at all? Very good reasons for it although it would seem that you would want Chipper to hit third and Sheff 4th if you went by conventional wisdom about who should hit third and who should hit fourth.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

DOB-Absolutely correct on the use of Lidocaine. I’ve seen it used to numb an area that was about to be sutured and I’ve had it used on me to numb my eye before receiving an injection in the eye-also for cataract surgery. It is a LOCAL anesthetic.

Possibly an injection in the butt might be beneficial if a hip were bothering someone, but that may be a stretch as well. Come to think of it, can a trainer even legally dispense it or obtain it, or is it strictly a Doctor’s domain to do so? I guess that all it really proves is that Clemens is a numba$$.

By Random

January 7, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I still think that if Frenchy and McCann could not protect Andruw, (and his 39 walks in 222 at bats with RISP suggest just that - in fact, his problem was that he should have walked 60, 70 times instead of swinging so bad at so many bad pitches), how the heck were Frenchy or McCann gonna protect Chipper as the #3 hitter?

As you imply ([Andruw’s] problem was that he should have walked 60, 70 times instead of swinging so bad at so many bad pitches), what Frenchy and McCann were not able to protect Andruw from was himself. Batting behind Chipper, they would not have been required to protect Chipper from himself. (I see now that Lew has also made this point.)

If anyone was gonna bat fourth, I thought maybe it should have been KJ or Diaz until Tex arrived. Totally agree with you on Diaz.

Or what really should have happened until Tex arrived and until Willie cooled off was that the lineup should have been Willie, Yunel/KJ, Edgar, Chipper, Andruw, Frenchy, McCann, Thorman

If I recall correctly, Chipper doesn’t like clean-up duty. I mean, he’s done it in the past (for example , batting behind Sheffield and Drew 2002 — 2004), but I think he did that in the same spirit that he played left field around that same time. But now, he’s been there, done that and probably doesn’t want to do either again. Those were not his best years.

But aside from the bad associations of those years, I think it’s his basic gung-ho-osity that makes him want to (a) be 100% assured that he’ll come up in the first inning, and (2) see more ducks on the pond when he does.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

overlord whats your thought about what kelly johnson needs to do to cut down on strikeouts. thats really the only part of his game thats keeping him from being a dangerous hitter.

his walks are up there near the top of the league…but i think hes TOO patient sometimes, and gets himself in bad counts. your thoughts?

By doc

January 7, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

clemens two worst answers to questions regarded clearing his name from the get go; by producing a transcript of a lie detector test he had already taken rather than saying “how would it help?” and the response to how should a cheater be dealt with “by the damage the drugs did to his own body” not expulsion or never seeing the hall. yeah right.

lidocaine lasts less than 30 minutes to an hour and is often supplemented by other longer acting agents to numb areas for longer periods of time. it burns like hell so i know he wasnt going to get more than one of them in his butt anyway unless he has a character flaw … oh yeah i guess pathologic lying qualifies. he and rose are in the same boat for now.

By 22oz

January 7, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Dentists use Novacaine.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

DAP-You realize that the reason young kids and animals are so cute is to increase the survival rate? Otherwise, if they were ugly, I’m not so sure they would be put up with for long. One can only take tearing up the trash all over the living room so long before reacting.

DOB-I go to see my podiatrist tomorrow. He’s a no BS kind of guy. He’ll tell me exactly how feasible Rocket’s claims are.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Just got a list of others (besides current players) who are scheduled to be at this weekend’s FanFest in Atlanta.

Braves coaches: Roger McDowell, Terry Pendleton, Brian Snitker, Chino Cadahia, Frank Fultz, and Alan Butts.

Braves alumni: Brian Jordan, Marquis Grissom, Greg McMichael, Jay Howell, Mike Devereaux, Brian Hunter, Pete Smith, Sid Bream, Greg Olsen, and more.

Braves minor leaguers/prospects Clint Sammons, Josh Anderson, and Zach Schreiber.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

N8 hey man, dont blame it on mondays…:-)

By nOLIE

January 7, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

do you know that frenchy’s 105 RBIs rank 21st in the majors last year? and he #10 in RBIs among major league outfielders. only two fo the guys ahead of him are gold gloversDAP

RBI are a notoriously unreliable indicator of a player’ skill. He hits in the middle of the 2nd most prolific offense in the NL the last two years . of course he has a lot of RBI. the surprise would be if he didn’t. Y’all are willing to cite Bill James & the new stats until they don’t prove what you wanna believe and then y’all cherrypick what you wanna use to make your hero look best. The whole object of stats is to keep every player on as even a field as possible and judge them all the same. His batting average, extra-base hits including all dem doubles are included in his OPS+.
Granted that he did improve a good bit last season from an 87 to an 103 which is a tad above average. and hopefully he will improve some more this season at cutting down some more on the number of outs that he makes in a season. and granted that his defense and arm are superb which raises his value a good bit. and he rates high on intangibles like attitude and enthusiasm too. But so far(nothing about his future) he is a dead average hitter by the most accepted measure used today to judge hitting. That’s not being harsh nor detrimental , it is a simple and true statement of fact.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Lew i never thought of cuteness as a factor in survival. but i guess people do tend to be more compassionate towards things that dont repulse them.

so tell me again why we are so easy on McFann? :-)

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Oh, damn, Random, still dragging that argument out? I have tried to move on because as DAP and Scoots and eric the elder and many others have told me, just make my point, if people wanna disagree, that’s cool, but stop trying to pound people into submission all day by arguing about it when they are not gonna change their minds anyway. I’m trying to keep it in mind because I annoy myself even more than everyone else when I carry on like that. So, I think I’ve exhausted my thoughts on that issue to the great annoyance of everyone on here. But your points are well taken.

One thing greatly concerns me about Matt Diaz possibly hitting 4th however.

For Matt Diaz:

With no men on base: .348, .374, .541 in 453 plate appearances

With men on base: .285, .338, .385 in 385 plate appearances

With RISP: .256, .305, .354 in 223 plate appearances.

2outs, RISP: .228, .304, .315 in 102 plate appearances

For KJ

No men on base: .262, .362, .411 in 552 plate appearances

Men on base: .266, .358, .466 in 390 plate appearances

RISP: .267, .368, .515 in 240 plate appearances

2 outs, RISP: .301, .405, .602 in 121 plate appearances

That’s why I would have rather had KJ hitting cleanup instead of Diaz if Andruw had been bumped out of cleanup and Chipper was not gonna be bumped down to cleanup.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

DAP I think we are all just gonna have to accept that KJ is always gonna strike out more than we would prefer. As you said, he gets himself so deep into counts so that he can either draw a walk or get the pitch he wants to drive. Sometimes, he never gets ball 4 and he never gets a pitch he can drive, so he strikes out. I think that was Shaun’s point when he drives us nuts all the time saying don’t worry about strikeouts so much. I don’t fully agree with him. Strikeouts are a tolerable collateral consequence for me if it happens because the hitter is patiently waiting for a walk or a pitch to drive. I have a problem with strikeouts when the hitter fans alot because he is aimlessly swinging like a neanderthal.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Matt Diaz batting fourth? It’s irrelevant, don’t you think? Since there’s no way he’s batting fourth in a lineup with Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira.

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

DAP i think theres nothing like experience. Time. Thats the thing missing in KJs case. Theres nothing any coach can tell him that will do the trick. I think it will come naturally as he matures, same as jeff case. They both have learned how to hit. They adjustment KJ has to do in order to cut down his K total is minimal. Maybe is just something like Maddux pitching, thinking ahead of the hitter……..in oder words, what will happen the pitch next to the one thats coming. That knowledge only experience gives it. Not like if he was a wizard or something, but learning to predict. I think we will see more of it from jeff and KJ this season.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Nevermind. Sorry about that, Braveheart. Now I see the point you were making about Diaz/KJ.

By BossLady

January 7, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Whatever my A$$. If one ever has wishes to succeed then begrudging others fame, fortune and success is not the way. Being generous in praise and appreciative of efforts will be returned to us abundantly.

Everybody can like or dislike anyone they so choose, but, for outright disdain of their success is not a wise thing to do.

I’d better go now…

By McFann

January 7, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Just got through with some grammar. Uga should really look into it sometime, it’s good stuff.

OK, let me see…I think Nolie hit it on the head. It’s who gets on in front of somebody that helps a person get RBIs. I mean, yeah, with our line-up, Francoeur had better have over 100 RBIs! Dang, if he didn’t, I’d really let him have it!! ‘Sept one of you said Jeff was in the top 10 in RBI, and yet someone else said he was 21st! I guess you mean he’s 10th or whatever for outfielders.

No, Francoeur’s not too overrated by you bloggers. I’m talkin’ about the media—OOPS!! Not you there, Chief!! I mean like Braves.com or something, you know. Or the announcers on the radio or TV—they’re all over the guy.

No, I wouldn’t like him better if he were a 30/.260 player. I want him to hit for average. And if he didn’t strike out so much, maybe I’d like him better, but that depends on what else he did.

Yeah, he improved a bit. But the reason he got so many 2 out RBIs was because he bat behind AJ. There’s bound to be some outs with that man in front of ya. (And no cheap shots at him battin’ behind McCann, I already know how many double plays he hit into. PuLEASE!!)

Am I supposed to show sympathy for the poor man who was rushed to the majors when he might not have been ready? Gee wiz. The poor thing! Getting paid all that money to play a game. Want me to call the Wambleance? Gosh.

Yeah Lew, I need to think before I type. Yep yep yep. Don’t we all? And I was KIDDING about that “excuse”. Gee wiz. It was in reference to something you said one time.

By N8

January 7, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

DAP

Be nice. LOL!

Hey, btw, I wasn’t trying to be a pompous azz last night with the 2nd long post back at you.

I can certainly be pompous when I want to, I was just trying to clarify my point, and in typical fasion, it turned into a 2nd epic post.

What I forgot to add to both of them, is that while we might have been the Yankees or Red Sox of the early to mid 90’s by being ABLE to spend that much money, I’ve certainly always appreciated the WAY that JS has gone about running the Braves.

It shows his creativity, and actual thought for the future, by trying to obtain the BEST DEAL for the organization, rather than just throwing as much money as possible at prospective free agents.

Keep in mind, that our offer to Arod(around 120 million for 7 years - if I remember correctly), was the NEXT highest offer after the Texas offer, when he initially signed the 250 million dollar deal. Had Arod accepted that offer, I have NO DOUBTS that it would have been a good deal for us, and we would have gotten our money’s worth out of it.

The Yankees and Red Sox are in a battle with each other, and allow themselves to get sucked into the bidding war, as to not let the other out do them.

JS has NEVER done business that way, and I’ll assume that Wren will not either. The Braves assess a players value TO THEM, and make an offer.

Seems elementary to me, but some teams don’t do it that way.

Anyhow…

By Thrillhouse44

January 7, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, maybe Clemens was injecting lidocaine so the real injections wouldn’t hurt as much.

I’ll send you and Braveheart an email once I get home tonight. I’m a big fan of the Roots. I’ve seen them twice: once on campus at JMU and another time at the 9:30 Club in DC. Both great shows, but the atmosphere at 9:30 was a lot more intimate. I’ll have to look into Immortal Technique tonight. Haven’t heard it yet.

Braveheart, you got me pegged pretty well. The girl was out wedding dress shopping so I had a Guys Night at the bars Friday night and some time to catch up on the MIB/Braves blog on Saturday. And now that the Redskins are out of the playoffs, I’ll have a lot more time to pay attention to the Braves. Wedding Day is May 31. Only a few more months before Thrillhouse turns into Chillhouse. Yeah, right!

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Any reviews of The Wire last night? I thought it was terrific, as usual. Gonna dig the newspaper angle this year. In terms of authenticity, they pretty well nailed the newsroom culture, and also current situation with cutbacks and such at most papers.

By ColoradoBraves Fan

January 7, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

nOLIE… good points and I agree. But what otherplayers were “dead average at age 22 and 23? Do you think Francouer will improve or has he hit his “ceiling”? I believe this season is almost a make or break season for JF. Does he continue to improve his OPS or is he now what he will always be, low OBP but still dangerous.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

nOLIE RBI are a notoriously unreliable indicator of a player’ skill. He hits in the middle of the 2nd most prolific offense in the NL the last two years . of course he has a lot of RBI.

ive read others say things like this before, and it requires some special reasoning to buy it. you are saying jeff’s numbers are good because hes in a good lineup, not that the lineup is good because jeff is in it.

francouer is a big piece of a very good lineup. one that is better because hes there.

whoops, jeff has the most RBIs on the team…but of course he does, right? cause its such a good lineup. its not at all because jeff is a good run producer.

i could argue that jeff is the best run producer on the team. i say the braves lineup is good cause jeff’s in there, not jeff’s got good numbers cause he’s in a good lineup.

hm…. the chicken or the egg?

By StingerSplash

January 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Pete Smith … wow. What a great stretch run he had in 93 (7-0, 2.05 ERA, IIRC). I really wanted him to succeed. I thought he had good stuff. Maybe he just couldn’t put it all together.

By Concrete Thinker

January 7, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Braveheart - just saw your recent rebuttal:

Mensa Member, just saw your post at the tail end of the last blog. What you provided is a very general picture of how IQ is quanitified. What I provided was a more specific evaluation of those with higher IQ. And as I said in the post you referred to, the IQ classifications I used are just one of many ways that people evaluate IQ. I don’t think they have much value in measuring IQ. If anything, I think the classifications they used are more valuable for evaluating one’s OPS+ and ERA+ than they are for IQ. And that was precisely my point. But evidently that was lost on someone such as yourself who suffers from dullness. I wonder which concrete thinker that was….. hmmmmmm

First - the classifications I were provided were the ones associated with the Stanford-Binet IQ test, which is one of the most widely used tests in the world.

Second - you state you don’t think they have much value in measuring IQ. All I can say to this, is that this position puts you into a very small minority.

Third - you state that you think they are more valuable for evaluating OPS+ and ERA+ than for IQ. This is quite a reach, don’t you think? Forgive me if I am dull, but I do not think you can equate a MENTAL measurement with a PHYSICAL measurement. Apples to oranges..get it? That was MY point.

Fourth - just because someone challenges your reasoning does not mean you have to resort to cyber - diagnosis..

By DAP

January 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

McFann I think Nolie hit it on the head. It’s who gets on in front of somebody that helps a person get RBIs. I mean, yeah, with our line-up, Francoeur had better have over 100 RBIs!

yeah you and nOLIE are so right. ANYBODY could hit over 100RBIs in that lineup. thats why there are only two guys that did!(that were there the whole season) and thats why frenchy had more RBIs than anyone!

i mean, chris woodward would have had 100 RBIs if he played everyday, right? ryan langerhans would have, to, if they had dumped frenchy instead of him. we never should have released raul mondesi to bring up francouer. he would have hit over 100 RBIs too in THIS lineup.

its physically impossible NOT to get 100 RBIs when you play for the braves. youre right, frenchy really isnt all that!

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Matt Diaz batting fourth? It’s irrelevelent, don’t you think? Since there’s no way he’s batting fourth in a lineup with Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira….. Nevermind. Sorry about that, Overlord. Now I see the point you were making about Diaz/KJ.

Poor Overlord. DOB just jumps on him by reflex. That was actually me you were taking to task. But you’re right. Talking about a June 2007 problem in January 2008 doesn’t make what I was saying very relevant.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

DAP,

Think about it: If the Braves had a rotten lineup, and they hardly ever got on base, then Jeff wouldn’t produce as many runs. Cool, huh?

Go Uppercase!!

By cricket

January 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Clemens is suing McNamee. This will be fun - especially for the lawyers.

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, Yunel numbers are just half of what he is. That kid is far better than only numbers. I dont think his numbers will go down, because that guy aint a rookie, he has more experience than KJ. Thats my opinion. He will adjust quickly to what ever adjustment the league tries to do over him. Youll see.

DOB, about Clemens. Using lidocaine: lidocaine is a local anesthetic. There is no way using it on his buttocks can help pain on his knees. It will only kill pain in the area you inject it. Secondly, the only way it could help diminish pain on his knees is if he injects it near the nerves that go to the knees, this nerves as a matter of fact are located and pass through the buttocks, but if enough lidocaine is injected near the nerve not only pain would go away, but he would be unable to walk since his legs would be totally numbed. If that was a way to kill pain on anybodys knees, it would also be used on the shoulder to kill pain in rheumatic hands of patients……and that is not the case. So IMO, that is totally BS. I have not read what Roger said, i just read what you posted.

By Bryan

January 7, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

I thought the Wire was good … i have to hear about the cut backs all the time … one of my good friends is the son of the managing editor at ajc and he is always talking about the but backs and $ problems (spent the weekend with my friend on cumberland island).

I know daybed didn’t recommend ghostface … . without having to look!

The Root’s newest CD is f’ing great with a good sample from Radiohead’s “you and whose army”…

Also, the new Lupe Fiasco is still growing on me … i like it a lot

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

DOB I talked about Diaz and KJ more than a week ago, so im not sure what are you talking about now.

By CAR3BOOGIE

January 7, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

How about Bobby Cox at FanFest?

By Godot

January 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

DOB re Frenchy,

I actually like the guy, and I think he can improve and has a good chance to be an above average player for a long stretch, but touting his RBI totals is not the way I would approach building his case. Batting in lower middle of the Braves lineup these past 2 years, he has had gazillion runners on base. Just like Andruw despite his awful year had 90 odd RBIs or whatever. I think Frenchy’s improved pitch selection, increase in P/PA, better K/BB are better indications that he is headed the right way.

And from a blog previous, good to see the shout out for Iwon and Wine. Ever got a chance to listen to Van Zandt and Nick Drake? ( old stuff )

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

One more thing about the use of lidocaine…. it can cause DEATH if injected in your veins by mistake. Patients have died in surgery rooms under doctors supervision while using lidocaine. So it is not like taking aspirin.

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Braveheart looks like DOB is starting to like kickn` my butt just for the heck of it. LOL.

Just kidding DOB i know it was a mistake.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 7, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, looks like you got Thrillhouse and I mixed up. since i’m a twin i’m used to it happening all the time, but getting mixed up on the blog is a new one. and Bryan — you’re right, you didn’t have to go back and look. i laughed out loud at that one.

the only new songs that i’ve heard are ones i’ve seen on youtube (search “REM Dublin” if you’re interested). i’m doing my best to stay in somewhat of an album-blackout mode so that i’m not too familiar with it by April 1, but i have watched some of the Dublin rehearsals. the ones i’ve heard and can say something about do sound faster and more lively, definitely more upbeat than the recent albums. but i’ve also heard some other songs that are a bit slower — “until the day is done” was on the anderson cooper show sometime last year, and it’s more of a somber, slower tune that features lots of acoustic guitar if i remember correctly. it’s a good song, just more of a depressing one (more like “final straw” or “find the river” than “boy in the well” or “high speed train,” if that makes any sense.)

overall, it’s way to early (and i’ve heard way too little) to tell what it’ll sound like but i’m really excited. songs like “horse to water” and “living well’s the best revenge” definitely sound like earlier REM.

and while we’re talking about REM, i’m in the middle of a day of listening to all of their albums. i started with “chronic town” last night and am in the middle of “green” right now. i forgot how great “document” and “green” are, two albums that i generally overlook.

By Mike S

January 7, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Haven’t seen The Wire opener yet. I was red-eyeing back from SEA last night/this morning and missed it (Oh the humanity!). The wife and I will catch it on demand tonight or tomorrow for sure, so hold off on the spoilers till then!

Bryan, I’ve heard good things about that Lupe Fiasco CD from others, but haven’t heard much myself yet.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

McFanni understand that, man. my post was obviously over your head.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Gee wiz, DAP, you’re actin’ like me, here.

But seriously, dude. Duh you have to have some talent to produce 100 RBIs, any dumdoor knows that. The point is that Fancoeur has that talent in him somewhere, and with the number of guys that get on base in front of him, he better have that many RBIs! Like Godot said, even Andruw Jones had 94. If people weren’t getting on base in front of him, he’d still hit the same (probably), it’s just that players wouldn’t be crossing the plate for it.

And I know, I know. He had more RBIs than anybody else on the team! Again, it’s his place in the lineup. And if Chris or Langerhans would’ve been there, no, they wouldn’t have as many because those guys didn’t hit. Jeff had more than Chipper because Chipper’s higher up in the lineup. Francoeur is a good player, but sometimes I think people just give him too much credit.

By BabyGoatEater

January 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Usually, as those of you who have been here a while know, I don’t chime in much. I just read the ol’ blog and take in what you guys think. Usually one or more of you say what I was thinking anyways (great minds think alike). I just feel (maybe wrongly) that you guys are beating McFann up aboput Jeff. Ya, I like the guy. Hell, who wouldn’t want a player like him on their team? I agree though that he has just as much chance at being a “average” MLB outfielder as a “superstar” caliber outfielder. I think the key word is “outfielder”. If Jeff played 2B, SS, C he’d already be considered a great player at his position (kinda like McCann). He doesn’t though. He plays right field. You know, where you stick that kid who can’t do anything but hit, - in little league - . I know he’s a gold glove player. He plays right field! That’s not quite as special as a gold glove SS. I like the guy. I root for him as hard as the rest of you when he’s playing. I’m just not ready to crown him, until he puts a little more work in the cages.

Anyway—-I maybe way off here. Just my two cents.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

well golly jeepers,McFann!

have you made any progress on the homework assignment i gave you?

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Concrete Thinker/Mensa Member Post with your real name and then I will respond. I’m not gonna waste my time with a troll hiding under a fake name to have some frivolous argument about something so absolutely asinine.

Yunel numbers are just half of what he is. That kid is far better than only numbers. I dont think his numbers will go down, because that guy aint a rookie, he has more experience than KJ. Thats my opinion. He will adjust quickly to what ever adjustment the league tries to do over him. Youll see.

Overlord, you’re definitely right that Yunel is much more than just mere numbers. He’s definitely one of those guys you have to watch play and not just look at his stats to appreciate what he is doing - although his stats are pretty darn good. And you are probably right about Yunel’s ability to make adjustments. He’s like Jeter. Jeter is pretty aggressive at the plate as well but also knows how to step back and draw a walk or let junk go by. Yunel is probably like that as well. I saw him do that a few times late in the season when he just needed to get on base. But Yunel’s low pitches per plate appearance is just something to keep in mind as he enters next season. If he struggles, it will most likely be because he is too aggressive and makes too much contact. We’ll see how he adjusts.

By Anders

January 7, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Just saw this on a CNN newsbreak:

The congressional committee investigating steroid use in baseball have invited David Wright to the hearing on January 16th. However, Wright will sit with the Senators helping form questions to better understand how these other players have sullied the sport he personally has built in to a $6 billion a year commodity. Wright has not committed to attend yet as he is scheduled to be on a space walk repairing the international space station that day before heading to spring training in Port St. Lucie.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

BabyGoatEater I know he’s a gold glove player. He plays right field! That’s not quite as special as a gold glove SS.

i understand what youre saying here, but it think youre wrong. especially since one of the main reasons he is a gold-glover is that he lead the national league in outfield assists. thats some thing that helps the team more than people realize. not only does he take runs away from guys at home, but he keeps runners from advancing just by being out there, which prevents as many big innings.

and this isnt little league, so a guy playing right field doesnt mean that hes the worst player on the team like it might in little league.

By ncscoots

January 7, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Re Francoeur and Nolie’s position that he’s average, there’s interesting reading on what you define as “average” (the mean or the median) here

By McFann

January 7, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Nah, BabyGoatEater, you’re not way off. You make a great point about our RF’er. His defense is nice, his hits are nice, but he has not yet earned the honor of being the Braves Golden Boy (perhaps the Gold Glove is a step in the correct direction. Hee hee.)

One thing to remember, DAP: Francoeur is an RBI machine, but a machine doesn’t work unless you push the correct buttons.

Homework assignment? Well jeepers and double gee wiz! I don’t know who these people who projected these lineups are. Remember? I’m just a dumb kid who doesn’t know enough about baseball to compete with you guys.

By flange1

January 7, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Good one Anders!

Do you think David Wright can help Britany out? Dr Phil is passing, maybe David Wright can save the day again.

By Martin

January 7, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB! do you think there is any chance the Braves will try to sign or trade for a CF? Is there any possibility we’ll see a trade involving Mark Kotsay? Can we see him in a Braves uniform for ‘08?

By Martin

January 7, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB! do you think there is any chance the Braves will try to sign or trade for a CF? Is there any possibility we’ll see a trade involving Mark Kotsay? Can we see him in a Braves uniform for ‘08?

By uga-brave

January 7, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

one thought on this francoeur debate. remember this guy plays every inning of every game. thus he gets a ton of at bats.

he had 142 more at bats then mccann and only 13 more rbi. thats basically 29 more games that mccann played in.

By BabyGoatEater

January 7, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

DAP:

I understand this isn’t little league and I was in no way implying that Jeff is the worst player/fielder/hitter on the team. He’s by far our best fielding starting outfielder, as of right now. He’s also probably the 5th (in my opinion) hitter on the team only because I rate McCann and Kelly as more pure hitters. I do think that a gold glove SS or C would help a baseball team much more than a gold glove right fielder. I see your point about assists, and agree that I didn’t take that in to consideration, but I must stand by my reasoning on the GG issue. I just think that, although it’s great to have a GG right fielder, it’s not all that important at his position. He deserves credit when credit’s due. He has an outstanding arm, but so does Mark Teahen

By MGL

January 7, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Is there any truth to the rumor that David Wright is trying to adopt McFann.

By BabyGoatEater

January 7, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Sorry about that Mark Teahen remark but I remember when people were saying how great he WAS going to be. Not so much anymore. Jeff’s a great player and I hope he realizes half of his potential. Then he’d be a force in the line-up for years. Good point on the AB difference between McCann and Jeff, Uga.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

DAP, nobody said Francoeur is the worst player on the team, my word!!

Or should I say, SHEEEEEEEESH!!

Hey uga, I take that as a complement for McCann. The way you say “only” 13 more RBIs seems to mean that Francoeur should have had a lot more.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 7, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Martin — to go along with your post, is there any chance we could see Mark Kostay’s wife in a Braves uniform as one of the cheerleader girls? oh man.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

McFann-You should pay attention to what you read, as well. I said he was tenth in the NL in RBI (I was wrong-he was 11th-one RBI behind 10th and 2 behind 9th) and someone else said he was 21st in RBI in MLB-which would put him 11th in the AL as well, if he had played there. BTW-That’s out of 750 active players (30 teams X 25 man rosters).

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, maybe low amount of pitches per AB is not only a reflex of aggressiveness, but it might be also the fact that they just couldnt fool him. If you are able to see the ball very well, there is not much urgency to stay put. If you see the ball….. you can swing at it and you can hit it well even if it is not over the plate. I dont think guys like Pujols and Arod and Jeter get basehits only from strikes, they get lots of basehits from “unhittable” balls out of the strike zone.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

McFann I’m just a dumb kid who doesn’t know enough about baseball to compete with you guys.

yeah, i know. youve constantly reminded me of that since you got here.

i guess thats a no on the homework assignment. so much for educating yourself about the game!! i guess just continue observing. youll pick some things up.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

one thought on this francoeur debate. remember this guy plays every inning of every game. thus he gets a ton of at bats. he had 142 more at bats then mccann and only 13 more rbi. thats basically 29 more games that mccann played in.

Ugabrave Frenchy had 182 at bats with RISP. McCann had 151 at bats with RISP. Frenchy had 89 RBIs in those at bats. McCann had 78. Looks like they would have been even with the same number of at bats. However, don’t forget McCann robbed Frenchy of at least a handful of RBIs because he is too slow to score from second base on a crisp single to the outfield.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

BabyGoatEater gotcha, man.

McFann Or should I say, SHEEEEEEEESH!!

youre crakin’ me up, dude.

Lew my wife called and let me know my wulitzer has arrived! im heading home now to check it out.

By More Asininity

January 7, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Concrete Thinker/Mensa Member Post with your real name and then I will respond. I’m not gonna waste my time with a troll hiding under a fake name to have some frivolous argument about something so absolutely asinine.

A dude posting under a fake name demanding for someone to post under their real name…

BTW Dude - First I questioned the scale you used and offered something maybe more standard that maybe more readers would relate to. Second, I questioned the logic in comparing a mental measurement to a physical one.

Sorry you find that asinine.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

maybe low amount of pitches per AB is not only a reflex of aggressiveness, but it might be also the fact that they just couldnt fool him. If you are able to see the ball very well, there is not much urgency to stay put. If you see the ball….. you can swing at it and you can hit it well even if it is not over the plate. I dont think guys like Pujols and Arod and Jeter get basehits only from strikes, they get lots of basehits from “unhittable” balls out of the strike zone.

Good point, Overlord.

By uga-brave

January 7, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

daybed,

kotsay’s wife is a real looker.

a couple of other frenchy stats to chew on. .885 ops in 05 , .742 in 06, and .782 in 07.

now 05 was lightning in a bottle, and he did tail off that year. the last two years with over 1300 ab’s we get a pretty good read on his productivity. the bad, a .780 .ops is pretty darn average when compared to other right fielders.

the good, which i think going forward says good things are ahead. in 07 he had 40 doubles, his .ops went up and he hit less home runs. so this is why this season is important, he needs to take that next step and get that .ops over .830 if he does that he is on his way to an all-star type of season.

By Mike S

January 7, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Braveheart. I really like that Yunel -> Jeter comparison. I’m surprised I hadn’t thought of it yet.

Now, obviously Yunel still needs to accomplish much more, as he’s only been in the bigs for (less than) a year, and has a long way to go to warrant that comparison, but I think there are a lot of similarities in their games. Let’s hope that trend continues!

By uga-brave

January 7, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

brvehaeart,

thats still around 30 more games that francoeur played in. thats roughly 20 % of the season. bottom line, when you evaluate some of francoeur’s #’s you must take into account the large # of ab’s he gets.

By Anders

January 7, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Hey I have an idea for one of those Verizon commercials where the service is interrupted that they could do on SNL.

It could be Pettitte calling Clemens to let him know he was going to come clean about using HGH. Pettitte then says “Are you OK with that buddy?” You see Clemens screaming into the phone waving his hands not to, but Pettitte can’t hear him because of the bad service. Close with Pettitte saying “OK as long as you don’t have a problem with it then I’m going public tomorrow”

By McFann

January 7, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, will you shut your cyber mouth about McCann robbing Francoeur of RBIs because he’s too slow? That is a dumb excuse for Francoeur’s “low” RBI count. Francoeur had a fine number of RBIs, and it is not McCann’s fault that he didn’t have more. SHEESH!! As a matter of fact, it’s not even McCann’s fault that he can’t run. And don’t tell me it is because he’s too fat. I am sick of that statement. The man can’t run because he’s got bad ankles because Eric Byrnes couldn’t control his slide on May 20, 2006. Oh, I’m sorry. Is that McCann’s fault, too because he was in Eric’s way?

SHEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!

Sorry, Lew. I forgot what you typed and didn’t remember when or where you typed it. Sorry.

One more thing, Braveheart, yeah, if McCann would’ve had more at bats with RISP, then he would’ve had the same amount of RBI as your precious Francoeur!! They were neck-and-neck in that split for a good deal of the season!!

By McFann

January 7, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

OK, here’s one more point for Braveheart to consider:

Who on the Braves could score from second on a single? Kelly Johnson and Willie Harris. Could Francoeur? Maybe…if there were two outs…and he ran on the pitch…and if the ball went out to some slow outfielder…and if it was a ball hit by McCann when his ankle was really giving him heck so it would have been a double for anyone else…

By Frenchyfann

January 7, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. Now pinch running for Brian McCann - Stephen Hawking.

Sorry McFann - I couldn’t resist.

By dgd

January 7, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Really funny Anders—that would make a great commercial! With Clemens filing suit against McNamee and McNamee likely filing suit back, this is going to be pretty good theatre for a while.

By DAP

January 7, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

McFann francouer is probably faster than johnson.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Who on the Braves could score from second on a single?

Have you ever watched and played baseball?

By Anders

January 7, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Another CNN Newsbreak:

The congressional committee would like the Yankees to send the Babe Ruth plaque that Clemens rubs before every outing to the hearings on January 16th. Apparently it distributes HGH and steroids like Pez candy explaining why the Rocket would rub it on the way to the mound. The Yankees advised this would not be a problem as they were going to replace the plaque with one of David Wright anyway.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Oh FenchyFann, you’re a riot. Oh boy, I don’t know when I’ve read anything that funny. Dipweed SHEESH!!

What baseball have you played, Braveheart? Just like to know. I’ve only played with my sister in the backyard, and watched every Brave game that was on before 10 o’clock for the past two years. Did you read my entire post?

Francoeur ain’t faster than Johnson, good grief. Who had more triples? Do the math, wise guy.

By Lew Impersonation

January 7, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

McFann-People score from first on a regular basis from second on a single. Chipper does it all the time, even when injured. You need to lay off McCann for a little while. He’s overweight, no matter what you say about him. He isn’t fast, and yes it is his fault. Not Eric Byrnes. He could always become more flexible, work out more, etc. He’s an excellent player, and also a force at bat, but so is Franceour.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Holy Cornelia-Just heard the recording of the Clemens/McNamee conversation on XM Home Plate. Y’all, after listening to it (quite emotional), it would not surprise me in the least to hear that McNamee comes out and retracts his statements concerning Clemens. Numba$$ or not, McN spread a line of BS to the Feds to keep out of jail. It was pretty damn clear, at least to my wife and myself.

McN kept repeating, “What do you want me to do Roger. They took my wife and kids away from me.” (that is not an exact quote, but close-he said the same thing 30 different ways). The Feds coerced this guy to the max. I think Clemens will be vindicated.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Did you read my entire post?

Why bother when the first line of your post says Who on the Braves could score from second on a single??

I understand this was before your time but Sid Bream scored from second. That should tell you something about how ridiculous you sound.

By Roman Gal

January 7, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

McFann, when a player is in “scoring position” that means, he should be able to score on a solid single to the outfield. You know that McCann is slow, stop trying to fight it. We get that he was injured. We know he had more stolen bases than Frenchy before he got hurt. The fact of the matter is, he did get hurt and now he cannot run fast at all. He did cost Frenchy some rbi’s last season. I’m not dogging on McCann because I like the guy, but facts is facts dude.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

McFann-Most catchers are slow. It comes from all the wear and tear on the cartilage and tendons in the knees and ankles with all the up and down they have to go through. It is a normal condition and is a readily accepted fact in baseball. With McCann’s ankle injury added to the equation, it makes him all the slower.

I don’t have stats to back it up, but I would be willing to bet that almost every other starting player for the Braves at all other positions could score from second on a single. For that matter, so could most of the pitching staff.

McCann’s lack of speed is the reason that no matter how well he hits, he will not bat at the front of the order. It’s just a fact of baseball life. It’s the same reason they don’t play every day. It is a physically demanding position to play.

By AdirondackDave

January 7, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

This just in… Legendary ball player Ted Williams has been thawed out and will play the lead in the much-anticipated big screen blockbuster The David Wright Story.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

I think Clemens did it. But I am tired of people saying McNamee wouldn’t lie to Mitchell because if he did, he would have went to jail. Flawed logic.

If McNamee names someone who didn’t do it, how would they prove that he lied about that person being a user? They can’t - unless he is stupid enough later on to admit he was lying - which he came dangerously close to in that phone conversation.

If he didn’t name enough names and they later found out he omitted people in his accusations, then they can prove that and he goes to jail.

So, really, there was nothing to lose by overnaming and overaccusing. He had nothing to fear with Mitchell if he overnamed because no one would ever be able to prove he overnamed. It would always be a he said/she said situation between McNamee and the one he is accusing. One’s word against another’s. No way to prove either way.

McNamee’s only fear with Mitchell would only have been not naming enough people. That was the only way he would have went to jail for lying.

McNamee had all the incentive in the world to overname and overaccuse.

With, that being said, I still think Clemens did it. I’m just tired of journalists throwing out that flawed logic just because Mitchell used that flawed logic.

By nOLIE

January 7, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

nOLIE… good points and I agree. But what otherplayers were “dead average at age 22 and 23? Do you think Francouer will improve or has he hit his “ceiling”

I don’t know. I certainly hope that he continues to improve.We may have a much better idea by the end of the season. Some guys do, some guys don’t. I was just responding to a poster saying that he is a stud. I like the kid and hope he does become a better hitter. He still makes too many outs. that is really the part that I have problems with.

By mo in the boonies

January 7, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Lew Strange how four people can hear the same thing and interpret it entirely differently. My spouse and I thought the conversation only made Clements look more guilty. And so did most of the news people.

McNamee kept asking, “What do you want me to do, Rodger?” And never once did Rodger say, “I want you to come here today and tell the truth that I didn’t take steroids, Damn it! ” He just hemmed-and hawed, and said he would have to think about it. Seems to me he has had plenty of time to think about what he wanted McNamee to say.

Also he taped the conversation without telling McNamee what he was doing. Not too ethical. And he has had investigators putting pressure on McNamee too. So if McNamee ever does change his testimony, it won’t be believable, because everyone will think that he was forced into it by Clements. And he is refusing to take a lie detector test. I wonder if he thinks he can go lie to Congress and get away with it…he ought to heed what has happened to Bonds.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, when somebody is directing their post to you, common courtesy would be to read the whole thing.

Become more flexible? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Gee wiz, I can’t wait for the season to start! Then I cann use real time happenings to dispute what you people say. Do you know how often he works out in the off season? Ah, didn’t think so. Not that I do.

I’m glad you say he’s no Francoeur. That’s a point in his favor, anyway.

I need to lay off McCann?! I need to lay off McCann?! You people are the ones who are basically saying his a bum for not getting Francoeur more RBIs!! You try running 180 feet with a bad ankle!! And how much do you think he should weigh? Huh? How much? 225 is too large for a catcher? Geez!! And you can’t lose weight just like that! Everybody knows that!! SHEEEEEESH!! And let me guess: He could change his diet. Wow. How brilliant. If I had a dime for every time somebody said that, I could make almost as much as he does. I know he’s “overweight”—like, maybe a few pounds. You say he’s no Francoeur? I say, in this case, he’s not the Ralph Kramden you make him out to be.

So what’s your solution to this “problem” for poor ol’ Jeff who “only” collected 105 RBIs? Take McCann out of the lineup and put in a faster catcher?

Makes a lot of sense, don’t it?

I can guarantee you, that if somebody told Francoeur about your stupid statement, he would disagree with you.

By Jeff Fan-core

January 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Stud

noun 1. A man regarded as virile and sexually active. 2. A man regarded as attractive.

By TommyP

January 7, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Lew: I took it the other way. When McNamee said, “What, do you want me to go to jail? I’ll do it, Roger.”…I took that as McNamee saying that he’d risk perjuring himself on the stand and say Clemens didn’t take steroids.

The whole phone call was a setup by Clemens’ corner. I mean, who tapes phone calls to their friends?

Why didn’t Clemens just answer McNamee’s “what do you want me to do?” questions with, “Set up a news conference and clearly state that it was a lie about me.” He never says that. Probably ‘cause the whole phone call is witness tampering anyway.

Clemens came off like a pompous a-hole. He tried to bully reporters from the start like he was throwing high and tight at hitters. Uh….won’t work, Roger.

I thought the 60 minutes interview made Clemens look bad. (“If I had taken that stuff, I’d have a 3rd ear coming out my forehead and pulling tractors with my teeth.” What? No you wouldn’t….you’d be improving on your already Hall of Fame numbers as you enter your 40’s.)

After seeing this press conference, I think Clemens looks terrible. (“Roger, would you say that those that take steroids are cheaters?” Roger: “I’d say that they’re hurting their bodies.” LOL)

I’ll say this: If Clemens is innocent, so is Barry Bonds.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Note to Braveheart:

I was alive when Sid Slid, (I could prob’ly speak full sentences by that time.) And that was a fluke. That’s why it was so amazing—because he was a natural-born slow poke. You know, Bobby was going to pinch run for him, but he decided not to. It wouldn’t have been such a big deal if it would have been just your average player scoring from second.

I know all catchers are slow, Lew. That’s my point here. Duh he can’t score from second on a single, he’s a catcher!! SHEESH!!

By nOLIE

January 7, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

ive read others say things like this before, and it requires some special reasoning to buy it. you are saying jeff’s numbers are good because hes in a good lineup, not that the lineup is good because jeff is in it.DAP

not hard to understand at all. When evaluating a player you want to use the ‘purest’ stats, ie the ones that are least affected by outside considerations. OPS or OPS+ covers those the best whereas RBI is influenced by a lot of things other than just the hitter. Since Jeff’s OPS & OPS+ indicate that he is at this point an average hitter, his production would be approximated by most any other player rated at about the same OPS. It’s not like there wouldn’t be someone else there. The lineup would still be good as long as he wasn’t replaced with someone rated much lower. Bonds drove in a lot less runs as a leadoff hitter. did he become a greater hitter just cause he moved to cleanup and started driving in lots more runs? Course not, his RBI production was influenced by where in the lineup he batted. Can also be influenced by OBP of players in front of the hitter and some perhaps by how much protection he has behind him.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

McFann Seriously, I have never heard anyone on here ever really criticize McCann until you came on here. Other than ugabrave, I really can’t think of anyone who had a bad word about the guy. You are just such an irrational loon and have created this bizarre nonexistent rivalry between Frenchy and McCann that people can’t help but correct you when you demonstrate such a lack of knowledge and reason. Most people on here are pretty happy that we have the first or second best catcher in the National League. Now, seriously, grab ahold of your sanity and be a little more reasonable about the strengths and weaknesses of McCann. This manufactured Frenchy/McCann rivalry ain’t working. It is about as false as the Maris/Mantle rivalry the fans and the media manufactured in 1961.

By nOLIE

January 7, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

i mean, chris woodward would have had 100 RBIs if he played everyday, right?DAP

c’mon now DAP . Woodward has an OPS+ of 74 not even in the same ballpark as Frenchy’s 100. NO Woodward would not drive in 100 runs, but another player with an OPS+ of around 100 would likely have approximated Frenchy’s totals.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Overlord, Braveheart: sorry about the mixup. Same for Daybed/Thrillhouse. I’m getting senile.

Martin, we already addressed Kotsay a few times up higher in the blog. Look for my name in blue and you’ll find it, or do a search for Kotsay going from top. Don’t want to repeat myself, sorry.

By Daveinzona

January 7, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Stange that someone apparently so young would make reference to Ralph Kramden in association with McCann being overweight. Do we have an imposter here?

By TommyP

January 7, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

How long does this McCann argument last? 3 months? 4? Talk about pathetic.

He’s one of the best catchers in the league. Let’s be happy we have him on our team and call it at that.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Sheesh. I watch the Honeymooners with my grandfather, BTW. I knew y’all would freak out over that.

Braveheart……I don’t know what to say to you. I’m not starting a rivalry between two best friends personally. That is, the two of them are not “rivals” because of this. I understand Mac’s weaknesses, duh. But maybe you don’t because you think he should be able to score from second on a single hit by your god of baseball, Francoeur.

That’s it for me tonight. I wash my hands of this weirdness.

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

And that was a fluke. That’s why it was so amazing—because he was a natural-born slow poke. You know, Bobby was going to pinch run for him, but he decided not to. It wouldn’t have been such a big deal if it would have been just your average player scoring from second.

It wasn’t a fluke McFann. It’s not like he miraculously pressed the turbo boost button on his jetpack while he was running or that for, once in his life, he ran faster than he had ever run before. That would have made it a fluke. A guy scoring by just barely beating out a throw was maximization of the limited running ability Sid had. He had the ability to score on a throw from left and he did - thanks in part to that throw from Barroid. But if Sid had the ability to score from second on a single to left, that should tell you how silly you sound when you ask which Brave besides Harris and KJ could score on a single to the outfield.

Sid being the one who scored was perfect because it creates legends and lore and all that good, fancy stuff that baseball fans and commentators like to use to make a dramatic event even more dramatic and romantic. But it wasn’t amazing that Sid scored because Sid had the ability to score from second on a hit to the outfield as most major leaguers should be able to do - especially when the single is not smoked and the throw is coming from a weak armed leftfielder. So, he scored as he had the ability to do.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t get goosebumps everytime I see it or hear it and that I don’t love when the commentators overly romanticize and dramatize the moment because of how slow Sid was. I eat that up. Can’t get enough of it.

By Champ

January 7, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

McFann, I don’t know if you realize this but the more flexible you are, the faster you become. And also, it doesn’t matter what position you play. You are all part of a team, so just because you are a catcher doesn’t mean you should limit yourself to certain statistics because you are a “catcher”.

You’re fun to argue with though, and at least you stick to your opinion. You keep things interesting.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

OK, one more:

I am happy that McCann is on our team. Couldn’t be happier. But apparently Braveheart isn’t because McCann never could run—which is why he became a catcher. Before he got to high school he knew he was too slow to play anywhere else.

Braveheart, maybe I do sound silly. But you know what? Sometimes you do, too.

Now I wash my hands of this weirdness.

By N8

January 7, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

“Sheesh. I watch the Honeymooners with my grandfather, BTW. I knew y’all would freak out over that.”

Yeah? Big deal. I watched the Twilight Zone series with my mom……..LAST WEEK on a marathon.

Or were you meaning that you watched it when it was originally on?

Sorry, my bad.

:-)

By DAP

January 7, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

Lew love the wulitzer, man!!! its gonna look great in the braves room with all the other memorabilia!!! any suggestions on a good frame for it?

By uga-brave

January 7, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

braveheart,

think about how history is made. there would be no sid slid without jose lind’s error. there would be no bartman if the cubs made some routine plays on the infield. maybe no yankee dynasty without jeff maier, or mark wohlers. maybe more then one world series here if lonnie smith picks up jimmy williams at third. jeff reardon, ed sprague. eric greeg, etc.

i think you know where i am coming from. sports events always have one or more weird or defining moment before history is made.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Mo-No what it proves is that if you (or any one else) are inclined to declare a person guilty with absolutely no proof whatsoever, you will stick to that interpretation no matter what. Any 1st year Law Student could have McNamee’s testimony dismissed in court and if you can’t convict in court, you just have to let it go. The Court of Common Opinion just doesn’t have any value whatsoever. We’re all too full of crap for it to mean anything-especially having no facts to work with except questionable, uncorroborated testimony.

McNamee is just not a credible witness-especially after that phone call. Yes, recording it was unethical, but under the circumstances, perhaps it was warranted.

It is perfectly obvious that McNamee was coerced. Does this surprise you that our Justice Department would coerce a witness’s testimony? Clemens did answer what he wanted done-for McNamee to tell the truth, which to me is pretty obvious he did not do. He was out to save his own @$$ (not that I might not have done the same under the circumstances).

DAP-A black wood or metal frame will look good on it. It is 11x14”, so you can get a premade frame for it much cheaper than having one custom made.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 7, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

MLB traderumors posted a “needs and luxuries” piece on the Braves. What do the denizens think of this analysis?
Needs and Luxuries: Atlanta Braves Let’s take a look at the Braves’ needs and luxuries (many requests for this one). Click here and scroll down to read other entries in the series.

C - Brian McCann 1B - Mark Teixeira 2B - Kelly Johnson SS - Yunel Escobar 3B - Chipper Jones LF - Matt Diaz/Brandon Jones CF - Josh Anderson/Jordan Schafer RF - Jeff Francoeur

SP - John Smoltz SP - Tim Hudson SP - Tom Glavine SP - Chuck James SP - Jair Jurrjens/Jo-Jo Reyes/Mike Hampton/Jeff Bennett

Setup - Peter Moylan Closer - Rafael Soriano

Needs: I think we have to view center field as a need for the Braves. The 2007 Major League Equivalency for Josh Anderson: .223/.257/.277. When a guy can barely crack a .700 OPS in the minors he’s obviously not big league material. Schafer hasn’t played above High A ball yet. Even with strong defense he seems a reach right now.

Mike Cameron seems like a great fit for these Braves, even if they have to give him a two-year deal.

Assuming Frank Wren’s bullpen remains respectable I don’t see any other needs for this team. They’re in very good shape.

Luxuries: The Braves have a strong offense and a respectable-looking rotation. They seem to have a decent fifth-starter competition going. However I would not go as far as to call pitching a luxury (James should not be dealt). After giving up a lot of prospects to get Teixeira, I also probably would not look to trade for a veteran starter or center fielder and further damage the farm system.

To sum it up, just sign Cameron and go for it.

By McFann

January 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Before I hit the sack, I have one last thing to type.

You are part of a team, so just because you are a catcher doesn’t mean you should limit yourself to certain statistics because you are a “catcher”.

Talk about repeating yourself…

True, just because you’re a catcher and can’t run, doesn’t mean you should be slow.

Just to let you know, McCann couldn’t run long before he became a catcher. As a matter of fact, the reason he became a catcher was because he couldn’t play the infield due to his lack of speed. He knew that before he got to high school. So ease up on him, OK? Sheesh.

By Metropolitan Man

January 7, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Differecnce between Bonds and Clemens:

Greg Anderson has and will go to jail for his good buddy he supplied. They have been friends and Anderson actually kept Bonds from more grief by going to jail more than once.

Now Roger is secretly taping his trainer, and they are at odds on what happened, who stuck what where and adding massive confusion on who is gonna say “I lied 1st.” Same story, same fanfare, but different trainer accounts!!!! Roger Vows to find the real killers!!!

By ncscoots

January 7, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

The Court of Common Opinion just doesn’t have any value whatsoever.

Sorry, but, in the case of Fans vs. ‘Roids, that Court is Supreme. It not only has value…it’s the only one that counts.

As for Clemens, any inclination I might have had to give him the benefit of the doubt evaporated at “lidocaine and B12”. And here I thought the Hollywood comedy writers were on strike.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 7, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Lew , the code word for Steroids is B-12. It’s been that way in Baseball for the better part of twenty years.

Clemens has already been caught in his own lies. He specifically said that Brian Macnamee NEVER INJECTED him with anything (Clemens own words)and then turned around less than ten days later and contradicted his own statement by say that Macnamee did inject him with B-12 and lidocaine.

I listened to the conversation between Clemens and Macnamee. Macnamee repeatedly asked Roger , what do you want me to do ? And finally asked him the question that sealed it for me. Do you want me to go to jail ? In other words , do you want me to lie.

Brian Macnamee bought and sold steroids , Brian Macnamee injected Roger Clemens , B-12 is the code word for Steroids and I’m supposed to believe Clemens even after he has lied publicly ?

C’mon , where is your common sense ?

By doc

January 7, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

is clemens side using this a a way for roger to say he cant comment when he sits before congress because of pending lawsuits and he doesnt have to take the fifth?

By Serious N8

January 7, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Lew

“It is perfectly obvious that McNamee was coerced. Does this surprise you that our Justice Department would coerce a witness’s testimony? Clemens did answer what he wanted done-for McNamee to tell the truth, which to me is pretty obvious he did not do. He was out to save his own @$$ (not that I might not have done the same under the circumstances).”

I got a WHOLE different take after hearing that phone conversation.

The whole thing seemed fishy to me. NOT ONCE did Clemens ask him WHY he lied. NO ONCE did McNamee ever say, “I was telling the truth, Roger”.

What I did hear, was McNamee ask Clemens: “What do you want me to do? If you want me to go to jail, I’ll go to jail.”

I took that question/comment as him saying that he was asked/ordered to tell the truth, which he apparently thought he did. Which means by recanting his testimony, he would then be forced to go to jail.

What I got out of the conversation, is that they both seemingly care an awful lot about the other’s well being.

What on earth would he have to gain by throwing Clemens under the bus?

I’m gonna assume that they had knowledge of Clemens’ use, and threatened him with jail time if he didn’t come clean about it. Just like Greg Anderson DIDN’T about Bonds. Now he’s in jail. Had Anderson testified against Bonds, many would’ve called him a liar as well.

Thing is, other than Clemens and McNamee…..NOBODY really knows what happened.

I did see Steve Phillips on ESPN earlier today, talking about a report that in 2004 McNamee warned Clemens’ lawyer about the crap that was going down with the Mets clubhouse guy (for got his name), and the steroids allegations.

Why would he warn Clemens’ lawyer, if he wasn’t involved? Seems to me like something a FRIEND that has knowledge of wrong doing, would do to try and save his buddy’s arse.

Bottom line for me:

I suspected Clemens BEFORE this crap hit the fan.

I was NOT surprised by the Mitchell report.

And finally, I’m not sure EITHER of them are credible witnesses at this point.

But it surprises me Lew, that a person that seems to be as intuitive as you normally do, would hear that phone conversation and think that McNamee was the liar in all of this.

I’ll wait for your response. No pompousness intended. Just conversing with you on this.

By chris

January 7, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Clemens claimed that B-12 and lidocaine (for joint pain) were what he was injected with. According to the MD’s interviewed for the ESPN website, you inject lidocaine in the afflicted joint area, not in your buttock. Muscle tissue is where you inject steriods.

A lawyer told me that the defamation suit Clemens has filed will allow him to decline answering key questions before Congress, the legal rationale being that he can’t comment while there is a case before the court.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 7, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

This just in…CONEJOS, Colorado (AP) — Six snowmobilers missing in the mountains for 2½ days while a howling blizzard swirled around them were rescued Monday by mets third baseman David Wright.

By Greg in TN

January 7, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Evening lads and lasses…

It’s Hall of Fame announcement eve in the land of Chief Noc-A-Homa. Tomorrow twenty five hopefuls find out whether they get the call, or if it’s wait until next year. There are certainly no sure inductees this year like we had last year with Ripken and Gwynn getting the most coveted of passes.

To me, the best bet of the bunch for this year would certainly be Goose Gossage. Jim Rice might also get election depending on how the writers look on the era of the 70s and 80s in context with the BALCO era. The next few elections should be worth noting in terms of how the BBWAA will begin comparing the most recent years in the sport with the era that gave us those hideous Houston Astros home unis. My gut feeling is that Gossage gets the call and everyone else must wait outside the velvet rope.

The Clemens saga is getting more and more interesting by the day. Who was such a pain in the rear to this guy that he had to get a lidocaine shot in the keister?

David-ATL14 I’ve lived all my life in the hamlet that is Oak Ridge.

By Metropolitan Man

January 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Integrtiy is the operative word here. Who really has it??? I dont believe Clemens because:

1. Who accepts a retirement Hummer only to sign with another club leaving you hanging?
2. Who stays out half a season to get “cleaned” only to come back, suck, and rob baseball?
3. Who played at home (Houston), makes them pay you the most in your declining years holding the team hostage and not to be able to sign some bats. (Playoofs 2 years in a row, then nothing form Houston)
4. Who secretly tapes somebody when your back is against the wall and then plays it live trying to vindicate himself?
5. Who says they didnt play for the Hall of Fame when this is the only reason you are trying to clear your name.
6. Your reason here!!!!

By Overlord

January 7, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

By Thrillhouse44

January 7, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, maybe Clemens was injecting lidocaine so the real injections wouldn’t hurt as much.

There is a big big chance that is 100% accurate.

By Metropolitan Man

January 7, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Question braves bloggers??? Have you ever seen a METS fan crash a “Fan Fest” before??? Contemplating on showing up this weekend in full METS gear to see how freindly you guys really are. I dont want no trouble, just a minute to talk with Glavine, Smolzt and of course Chumper. Maybe they can explain why they get up so much to play the METS but not so much for the other teams???? Hmmm, maybe Boooby “Eject Me” Cox can better answer that question.

By Metropolitan Man

January 7, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Pettitte retains Sammy Sosa’s lawyer:

Article here. Insert your own jokes!!!!

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sppettitte0108,0,5015627.story

By Metropolitan Man

January 7, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Excerpts from Exclusive SI article: McNamee stands by story. Clemens’ ex-trainer reacts:

His mood darkens, however, when Wallace asks Clemens, “What did McNamee gain by lying?”

“Evidently not going to jail,” the pitcher replies.

“Jail time for what?” Wallace asks.

“Well, I think he’s been buying and movin’ steroids.”

“I’d rather be called a liar than a drug pusher,” McNamee says, his voice rising.

I gave him steroids, but dont call me a drug pusher, call me a liar????? Now thats a confusing statement.

Complete article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/07/mcnamee.clemens/index.html

By chris

January 7, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

You have a lot of anger issues, Met Man.

By doc

January 7, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

chris that corroborates my suspicion all all along and stated earlier that this whole thing including the interview was a ruse and a front. pretty cunning lier because a lot of what he says is just plain stupid. they are doing everything except take a lie detector test to clear his name because they cant depend on his own “truth” to not suggest lies.

steroid injections or “b-12” dont hurt, lidocaine does. it makes absolutely no sense to inject both into the butt. i assure you one shot of lidocaine deep into the tissue is all anyone will take because it is so acidic. many folks get b-12 for the problem of peripheral neuropathy or other complications of medicine. never have i heard one complain about how b-12 hurts. if i inject lidocaine anywhere in you it is very painful. now where did roger get his lidocaine as it is not an over the counter drug.? didnt he say initially he had never been injected?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

January 7, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Congrats on your Jayhawks. They looked good in the bowl game, and have looked awesome so far in hoops.

The comment about Texiera’s contract/pending arbitration looming on the horizon makes me wonder whether Boras’s failures this year (A-Rod fiasco and Druw getting a paltry $18 mil for 2 years, as opposed to the predicted $25 mil per for 7 years) will humble him at all, and whether his clients will learn to be more reasonable in dealing with teams in free agency. No doubt, Tesh is going to get substantially more than $9 mil from arbitration. He’s worth more than that (geez, did I really say that a freakin baseball player is worth $9 million a year)? Anyhoo, will be interesting to see if Tesh will be REASONABLE in negotiating a long term deal with the Braves. Would certianly love to have this guy around for the next 5 years, or so.

By chris

January 7, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Doc, My understanding is that an injection of lidocaine dulls the pain in the area where it is injected and that area only, and that the effect lasts 5-6 hours. Is that right?

Clemens has more money than this sad sack Macnamee. It’s likely he’ll win in he battle of defamation suits because he can keep paying his lawyers for as long as it takes for Macnamee’s money to run out. I suspect, though, that to not answer questions before Congress will invite comparisons to McGuire. His reputation is about to get even worse.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Yeah Coach-You of all people I would never trust to not convict me without evidence. Your perpetually right and never, never are wrong about anything.

What the hell is wrong with you people? This is America. You are innocent until proven guilty. There is no positive test result in this case. There is no trail of canceled checks or delivery information. All you have is the uncorroborated testimony of a person who was threatened with Federal imprisonment if he did not talk. Sorry, that is Inquisition material. It is something I would expect from Witch Trials or Joe McCarthy and the Communist scare.

Court of Public Opinion my @$$. You me and everyone else has been guilty of being full of crap way too many times for our public opinion to mean anything of value. Coach, you wouldn’t even let anyone convince you about Player Options. Yeah right. I believe everything you have to tell me. Sure I do.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Oh Yeah-What was that people were saying that this was an off season for SEC football? Seems to me that SEC teams may well end up 1-2 in the Nation when all is said and done.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Sorry, Dude, I just don’t see it and neither did my wife, who thinks nothing like I do.

I assure you that my BS meter is set on a very low setting-ask my son. He never could get away with anything. I just don’t think McNamee is a reliable source. For one thing, his testimony would never see a courtroom without being thrown out. For crying out loud- The guy was threatened with time in a Federal pen. I would lie my @$$ off to avoid going to Leavenworth and you would, too. You just can’t convict a guy on uncorroborated testimony.

You did notice during the conversation that McNamee never once said “But Roger, you KNOW you had me inject you.” He NEVER said it. What I took from the conversation was he was trying to tell Clemens he did it because he had no other alternative-that it had already destroyed his marriage and family life and his freedom was all that was left. All Clemens did the whole time was to tell the guy he understood why he did it, but wanted him to come out and tell the truth. It was quite plain to me and I was not at all certain even after the 60 MInutes thing yesterday.

By uga-brave

January 7, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

well all i can say for the buckeyes is ” same hooker different skirt.” same as the florida game. the buckeyes just dont have enough speed on the edges.

By Lew

January 7, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Oh-All of this has nothing to do with what I think of Clemens, who I never liked in the least. I always thought he acted like a jerk and he certainly is in this instance. I just wouldn’t condemn him on such thin “evidence”.

By doc

January 7, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

chris, no, lidocaine is the shortest acting local anesthetic available to a doc trying to relieve pain by creating pain if you have ever gotten one before removing a tooth, doing a filling or sewing up a wound after a laceration. often in the time to sew up a wound using lidocaine i would have to reinject the wound locally because it would begin to wear off. direct injection of a nerve as the dentist does lasts longer but that is not wha happens into a general tissue area of fat and muscle. why not use a longer acting one from the get go? because it hurts even worse. for a hernia with a pt under anesthesia i would inject a longer acting agent to last longer to get them out of the hospital before it wore off and the pills have to take over.

as a doc i can see absolutely no reason to inject lidocaine either with or before giving b-12 and have never heard of it so he is betting on the ignorant mind. i assure you a man as tough as clemens is, he didnt need a little lidocaine to buff him up for an injection of something deeper if it truly was b-12. that is the most laughable part of his whole argument. how he could keep a straight face on tht one is beyond me.

lew the trouble is clemens doesnt even corroborate his own admissions, first i wasnt injected, then i was. what good would a lie detector d? whereas a lie detector test from the get go on record that is done by a reputable person would mean everything in the court of public opinion. lew did rose bet or did he lie and when did you finally come to your conclusion or did you defend him to the end? very nice to bring in mccarthy era but i just dont think it and what mcnamee has said about clemens only using when he got a tired arm in the late july august swoon is too far off base. kind of goes along with his desire to ultimately pitch only half a year once drug testing got tighter. no? coincidence in timing?

what you will see for mcnamee is why anderson took jail as he had no money to defend himself. kind of reminds me of the mcdonald women who spent clinton’s regime in contempt and quiet and in jail until clinton could pardon her. witch trial, come now.

By brian

January 7, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

great post Chris -

The lawsuit angle is brilliant by his lawyer. If Clemens took steroids, he would have to either take the 5th or take his chances lying before Congress. If Clemens takes the 5th, his rep would sink to McGuire status. If he cannot testify due to pending litagation - that is a great out for him without technically taking the 5th.

Lidocaine in the butt makes no sense. Doc is correct in the fact that Lidocaine stings like crazy when injected. Anyone have stitches with lidocaine injections (before Emla cream)? It feels like bee stings.

Makes me appreciate Nolan Ryan anymore. Just a good old boy that reared back and threw the ball. No hitters in his 40s. Supposedly still bringing the heat many years after his retirement with BP with the Texas Longhorns.

I also miss the good old days when you showboat after a homerun or admire it for too long expect your next pitch in the ear. How many times would Bonds have been nailed by Ryan over the last few years. Lean out over the plate? Better get ready to duck. Now someone just tries to pitch inside to someone who is leaning over the plate and the batter acts like someone insulted their mother

By Braveheart

January 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

What I heard really in that telephone conversation was one big ole game of chicken between the two of them.

McNamee was trying real hard to bait Clemens into tampering with a witness. Hence, the my poor dying kid, invite me down, my poor wife, I’ll go to jail for ya, I’ll fire my lawyers for ya, tell me what you want me to say, etc., etc. etc. He was trying to get Clemens to say, Mac, why don’t you and your family come on down here, spend the weekend with the family, I’ll pay the medical bills for your kid, and show up at my press conference and tell people exactly what I want you to say

Clemens had his lawyers right there next to him and knew not to give in to any of that. Clemens was trying to bait him into saying on the phone it was all a lie. But Clemens could not come right out and say why don’t you just tell the truth and tell ‘em I wasn’t using because then Clemens could have been accused of tampering with a witness for telling the witness to change his story and say exactly what Clemens wanted him to say. His lawyers had trained Clemens well to just say over and over to McNamee to just tell the truth and nothing more than that.

I believe McNamee and Clemens were each recording that conversation. McNamee didn’t come off good and didn’t get what he wanted so he didn’t release it first. Clemens got McNamee sounding like a putz, so he released it. McNamee wasn’t quite as pathetic as he portrayed himself to be on that tape. He was probably only playing that way to bait Clemens.

But all I heard on that tape was one big game of chicken with two guys trying to bait each other into saying things they did not want to say.

By doc

January 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

hell lew you take or you should take b-12 by simply absorbing it under your tongue. the only reason to take it otherwise is if you want the “convenience” of it once a month and you have a serious gut issue or dementia because of b-12 insuffciency. sublingual is the only way it needs to be taken, two drops swish and swallow daily. geeeez, you know this. you even looked it up yourself.

did roger let someone inject him and know absolutely nothing about it? if so let m give you some clear. for this issue it must come close to home because your bs meter may need a battery or a boost of b-12 itself. :-))

By chris

January 8, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

What the hell is wrong with you people? This is America. You are innocent until proven guilty.

Lew,thanks for the laugh. In a court of law that may be true, but there’s certainly no tradition of that anywhere else in this great land of ours. And hell, this is a blog. About baseball.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Lew , everybody agrees with me. Your the only retard defending Clemens.

No , L.S.U is not the B.C.S. champion. What we have is a bunch of two loss teams and another cluster*&%$ of a season without a playoff system.

By Braveheart

January 8, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Coach I have been wondering for a long time about how you have been so successful as a Coach. So I did a little research and found the website where you discuss this:

http://www.dadgonemad.com/2006/03/coachdannysru.html

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Braveheart (The biggest kiss ARSE in this blog). Congratulations , you are the winner of the kindergarten coloring contest. Your door prize : One free night in the hotel of your choice with Lew so the two of you can spoon the night away.

By Jeff Fan-core

January 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

Coach, I happen to agree with Lew. The burdon of proof is on the prosecution and after listening to that phone call especially, any law student could find holes in his statement or say that he was coerced.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Why would anyone defend Roger Clemens , especially someone who claims to be a Braves fan.

This cheater(Clemens) helped the Yankees steal two World Series in 1999 and 2000.

Nine Yankees from the 2000 squad were named in the Mitchell report.

Five Yankees from the 1999 squad were named and were of course on both teams.

The names of the guilty : Roger Clemens , Andy Pettitte , Chuck Knoblauch , Mike Stanton , Jason Grimsley , Jose Canseco , David Justice , Glenallen Hill and Denny Neagle.

Go ahead , defend them all , Lew. I’ll take you apart , piece by piece and enjoy every minute of it.

By Brian Edwards

January 8, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

Coach , your right on the money. It’s the court of public opinion. We have seen this song and dance routine many times before from many ex-athletes and all of them have turned out to be guilty later on.

By Lew

January 8, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Coiach-Go screw yourself. I’m not defending Clemens. I just refuse to condemn him because you or anyone else thinks he knows what he did. You can surmise and you can conjecture, but as usual you don’t know nothing. But that is certainly not new territory for you, is it.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

Dear Roger Clemens , take a note from Mark McGwire. He did the smart thing and listened to his legal counsel. Big Mac took the fifth , disappeared behind the high walls of his country club golf community and lives a quit life away from the spotlight , content with life and a multi-million dollar bank account.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Lew, I’m surprised at your interpretation of this whole sordid Clemens mess.

If you really believe he didn’t take ‘roids and/or HGH, well, my friend, there’s a lot of players who’d love to have a lot of fans (and Hall of Fame voters) who give them as much benefit of doubt as you do. Because I can assure you, there aren’t many of either.

In part because we’ve heard it all, again and again, and I’m still waiting for the first such accused athlete to clear his name and not end up either confessing or completely shamed by a mountain of circumstantial (or other) evidence that flies in the face of his protests.

You wrote: “I assure you that my BS meter is set on a very low setting-ask my son. He never could get away with anything. I just don�t think McNamee is a reliable source. For one thing, his testimony would never see a courtroom without being thrown out. For crying out loud- The guy was threatened with time in a Federal pen. I would lie my @$$ off to avoid going to Leavenworth and you would, too.”

Well, your BS meter’s not set low on this one. If you don’t sense BS in Clemens’ explanation, well, I don’t know what you’re waiting for.

And by the way, you’ve got the facts wrong on Mcnamee’s testimony, from everything I’ve heard (except of course Clemens’ version of the testimony).

He was NOT going to jail — not unless he was caught lying about his testimony. Totally contrary to what you and Clemens have said. He could both go to jail and owe millions in a lawsuit if Clemens were to win (which he won’t).

The Feds reportedly sat in the room while he testified to Mitchell, and it was made clear to him that they wanted the truth, and that if he lied he would face legal consequences. They did not say, give us a big fish or you go to jail.

That’s what Clemens wants you to believe happened, but there is absolutely no other reason to believe Mitchell and others are lying about how the info was gained.

Why on earth would McNamee tell the truth about Pettitte, who is Clemen’s best friend, and lie about Clemens? Makes absolutely no sense. It’s totally illogical that he would lie about Clemens and face both criminal and civil actions for doing so. Why didn’t Clemens just say in that phone conversation, “Mac you’re lying and you know it”?

By Lew

January 8, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

DOB-No, my point is that what any of us believe is immaterial. None of us were there. There is no definitive proof. There has been no positive test. There is no check for services (roids) rendered. There is no trail of delivery information. All that we have is supposition and conjecture-and uncorroborated testimony from a person who could well have been coerced.

Now all of this has nothing whatsoever to do with what I think he did or did not do. I personally think the whole thing about the B12 and lidocaine is a bunch of crap. Yes, when there is considerable quacking and waddling, I would tend to agree we are dealing with a duck. However, the phone conversation sure didn’t convince me that McNamee was a stand up guy or that he was telling the truth.

Quite honestly, I just want to get on with baseball and put the entire sordid affair behind us. Legislate the hell out of the sport from here on out. Bring in an outside testing concern. Make future penalties as harsh as they feel is necessary. But for crying out loud, there was no testing apparatus in place. The sustances were not illegal in the sport. There is really no way that the ills of the world can be put back into Pandora’s box and there is no way to know exactly who did what when where and how. It’s just time to end the witch hunt and get on with baseball. Besides-would you want Coach set up as the arbiter of anything important? You couldn’t convince him that Thorman was out of options.

By Lew

January 8, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

Anyway. What I think matters not one bit in the scheme of world affairs. I’m tired and I’m going to bed. Good night.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

Lew (the Clemens defender) is doing the two step boogie , trying to wiggle his pathetic little self out of this mess he has created for himself.

About Scott Thorman , yes he still has options. The option to be the back up to Tex , the option to be traded , the option to be released , designated for assignment , put on the D.L. , kidnapped by aliens ! HAHAHAHAHA !

By brian

January 8, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this

Lew-

Senator Mitchell would not have included Clemens name in that report unless he was sure it would stand up. Otherwise Clemens would sue Mitchell and everyone else involved in the report.

You have heard of Marion Jones correct?

By Jeff Fan-core

January 8, 2008 1:59 AM | Link to this

I don’t know the guy’s name, but one of the analysts on ESPN just predicted UGA as the preseason #1.

YEAH BABY!

By brian

January 8, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

DOB - do you think the steroid allegations against multiple players and suspicions around the league may help Murphy’s Hall of Fame chances. All around good guy with borderline numbers thanks to injuries late in his career, but in the early and mid 80s he was one of the most feared hitters in the league. 2-time MVP. More feared hitter than Sandburg for sure. how would you vote?

By Mike S

January 8, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

Here is an interesting article by Jayson Stark about the upcoming HOF vote

I tend to agree with him on just about everyone except for maybe Jack Morris. What i really enjoyed from this article the most was his reasoning for the McGwire vote. I thought that was the most rational perspective/explanation on the steroid era that I’ve seen.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 8, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this

The list of lies from Roger Clemens so far.

1. Brian Macnamee NEVER INJECTED me with anything.

The next one on the list totally contradicts this statement.

2.Brian Macnamee did inject me with with B-12 and Lidocaine , but not Steroids or HGH.

Lidocaine is primarily used to numb the muscles prior to surgery and would have no affect on the joints even though Clemens claims this is the reason he was given the injection.

B-12 injections will help greatly with weight loss , anemia and vitamin deficiencies. Clemens claims to still take it and yet he has the build of a weight lifter.

1. My body never changed , as told to Mike Wallace.

When in fact , Clemens put on 30-35 pounds of muscle at the age of 39.

1. I don’t know anything about steroids , where is the paper trail.

   Never mind that Brian Macnamee stated in the Mitchell report that Clemens actually supplied some of the drugs himself.

5.I don’t need the Hall of Fame.

That is by far the most obvious lie , everybody knows that Clemens desperately wants to top off his career with an induction ceremony at Cooperstown.

I wonder when and what the next little white one will be ?

By Jeff Fan-core

January 8, 2008 3:16 AM | Link to this

Met Man, if ole Chumper saw you in a Mets uni at FanFest he might take you home with him. After all, he owns the Mets.

By nOLIE

January 8, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this

and this isnt little league, so a guy playing right field doesnt mean that hes the worst player on the team like it might in little league.DAP

s’right. by the time you get to college ball that guy is now the leftfielder not the rightfielder. Frenchy does a great job in RF and does save the team some runs.

By nOLIE

January 8, 2008 6:17 AM | Link to this

Re Francoeur and Nolie’s position that he’s average, there’s interesting reading on what you define as “average” (the mean or the median) herencscoots

Thank you, that was interesting reading. I did not specify that he was an average RFer just an average hitter overall in response to a post that he is now a stud. By definition 100OPS+ is average overall. and if he is a few notches above or below, the gist was that he is not a this point an offensive stud. Without doing the math and research I wonder if 100 is not below average in RF using either approach since it is an offensive oriented position in general? Whatever his other pluses make him a desirable player in real life baseball. Just hoping he continues to improve in getting on base.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Coach, chrissakes, lighten up man, the link was just a good natured joke. You take yourself way too seriously.

By 22oz

January 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

MetroMan, actually 2 years ago at FanFest, i was in the line for Chipper, and there was a man in a Mets jacket. I wish i’d have been in there when he came in, but you have to keep moving. So you wouldn’t be a pioneer by showing up this weekend.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Just hoping he continues to improve in getting on base.

Is that really critical if he is the #6 hitter? Part of the reason Frenchy is a good RBI guy is because he doesn’t walk a whole lot. Frenchy had 208 plate appearances with RISP. David Wright had 204 plate appearances with RISP. Frenchy had 89 RBIs with RISP. Wright had 74 RBIs with RISP. Wright walked 36 times and Frenchy had 18 walks. Wright had 158 at bats with RISP and Frenchy had 182.

If Wright had been as aggressive as Frenchy, he would have had as many or more RBIs with RISP as Frenchy. But he wasn’t. He took more walks and ended up with 15 less RBIs in 4 less plate appearances than Frenchy with RISP. However, because he took more walks, Wright scored 79 times while Frenchy only scored 62 times. But overall with RISP in about the same number of plate appearances with RISP, Frenchy ended with 145 R+RBI-HR while Wright ended up with 146 R+RBI-HR.

Batting third or fourth for two/thirds of the season, it was Wright’s job to get himself on base and drive in runs. Batting fifth and sixth, it was Frenchy’s job to first drive in runs and then get on base. What is the point of leaving ducks out on the pound that he can drive in and leave that responsibility up to THorman/Wilson, Langerhans, and the pitcher/pinch hitter?

Is he supposed to pretty up his OBP stats to the detriment of the team actually scoring runs in those situations just for the sake of prettying up his OBP?

By Anders

January 8, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Just saw this on a CNN News release:

Major League Baseball has announced that due to it’s inevitability David Wright was added to today’s list of new indcutees into the HOF.

By nOLIE

January 8, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Is he supposed to pretty up his OBP stats to the detriment of the team actually scoring runs in those situations just for the sake of prettying up his OBP?Kiss Arse

You silly person, you. I’m hoping you already know the answer to that, Arse. The best way to score runs is to not make outs. Pretty ingenious huh? Teams with high OBP are teams that usually score more runs than teams with lower OBP. Check the yearly production stats. So if players make less outs the odds are that more runs will score. That includes the boy wonder.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

nOLIE i think the arse made his point well…and that is, that jeff was the guy to drive in the runs, not the guy to score runs. that was his role because of this place in the order, and he did that well.

obviously, he if walks more his OPB would be higher and the team would have more opportunity to score. you are completely right about that, but sometimes, a hit is better, and you have to be aggressive at times to make sure you get that hit instead of walking.

By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy

January 8, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

ere was something strange about this ride:

he he cried just south of Nashville,

And he turned that car around.

He said “This is where you get off, boy”

“‘Cause I’m going back to Flushing.”

As I stepped out of that Cadillac,

I said, “Mr., many thanks.”

He said, “You don’t have to call me Mr., Mr. THE WHOLE WORLD CALLS ME DAVID WRIIIIIIGHT!!!!”

By nOLIE

January 8, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

nOLIE i think the arse made his point well…and that is, that jeff was the guy to drive in the runs, not the guy to score runs. that was his role because of this place in the order, and he did that well.DAP

I don’t think he made a valid point at all except by 1960 standards. It is a shortsighted and egocentric point in a hitter’s favor. For one thing,Jeff does not have to be the guy who always drives in the runs. We have the luxury of having McCann or Diaz who can also drive them in and drive Jeff in too if he quit making so many outs. . And a player, in fact most good players like Chips, Ramirez, Sheff etc can be aggressive at the plate and still get walks when the balls are not in the strike zone. In fact that is one of the main abilities that make those guys great hitters . Frenchy would benefit the team overall if he got on base more and helped continue innings. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Williams, Bonds Ruth …gee just think of all those GREAT hitters who drove in runs AND were able to take a walk instead of fishing for pitches that are clearly not in the high probability hit zone, like Jeff does. Like I said, check the yearly team stats for runs scored vs team OBP, there is a high correlation between success in both aspects. You get a high team OBP by having all players get on base as much as possible,there is no reason that shouldn’t include the #5 or #6 hitter. Jeff needs to step up and learn that. It will benefit the team and raise his OPS numbers to where he will be taken seriously by other than Braves’ fans as an allstar quality hitter.

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

It’s not an either/or for driving in runs and avoiding outs. The two are part of the same package. You want Frenchy aggressive in the zone, not just plain aggressive (you don’t drive in many runs on pitchers’ strikes). You might want the 8 hitter to expand his zone in that manner, but not at 6. Unless the bottom third of the order is a complete black hole, there are still 2 AB after a Frenchy walk that can score runs, and the extra baserunner can lead to a bigger inning. And big innings win ballgames.

So, yes, I’d rather he “pretty up his OBP”, LOL, and then count on his teammates to do THEIR job, too.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Brian, as much as I think the steroid mess and the professed desire of so many (including media) to recognize those who, by all accounts, did it clean, I don’t think it’ll spark a significant increase in HOF votes for Murphy. Which is a shame, because I do think he’s a borderline HOF candidate and should get far, far more votes than he gets. A good case can be made both for and against his inclusion in the Hall, and I might discuss that in next blog, probably tomorrow.

By Kentavo

January 8, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Pete Rose denied betting on baseball for 15 years, then came clean.

Marion Jones said she never used performance-enhancing drugs, then admitted it.

Roger Clemens will be the next to change his story once hard evidence surfaces.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Got a call from an Orioles writer last night, wanting to know if Braves might still be interested in Corey Patterson. Said I thought they might be now that the market is so limited for the Georgia native’s services. I mean, if the Braves could get him on a one-year deal for $3 mill or less, I’d think they would have to be interested, despite his low OBP. He did have a real good second half in 2007, does play very good defense, and does have great speed (and pretty good power, though trying to display that power it arguably what sidetracked his career).

Most importantly, having him would allow the Braves to give Schafer the extra half-season or more in the minors that they’d prefer he get. And they wouldn’t have to cross their fingers and hope with Josh Anderson or Gregor Blanco in CF.

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

DAP, hits show up in OBP, too. Increasing OBP isn’t about walking more, it’s about getting on base more (hence the name on-base percentage) so that the team has more baserunners (or homeruns) and therefore has more of a chance to score.

By Bryan

January 8, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

this is the funniest article i have read online in 2008

Patton Oswalt fans … read! KFC fans … hide your eyes!

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

At the very least, getting Corey Patterson would give us something to whine about now and during the season. It’s hard to legitimately complain about young kids like Anderson and Blanco and feel good doing it. At least, with Patterson, I could complain with little guilt.

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

The two things are not mutually exclusive. Williams, Bonds Ruth …gee just think of all those GREAT hitters who drove in runs AND were able to take a walk instead of fishing for pitches that are clearly not in the high probability hit zone

You’re right. This is why OPS is a nice stat or looking at OBP and SLG together. Tells you who’s good at getting on and accruing bases/hitting for power. Those two things are the things that matter most with concern to run production. As simple as that sounds, some want to complicated it and treat you like you’re a computer geek if you think that way. But there’s nothing complicated or nothing that requires a spreadsheet; it’s common sense.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

nOLIE bloggers have been arguing this subject for two days now, and the funny thing is, i dont think we really disagree.

you are right about OBP, and i acknowledged that. i think it would be great for him and everyone if he learns how to force pitchers to pitch to him, and i think he will do that and eventually bat higher in the order.

but some things in baseball dont chance that much. batting 6th in the order where he does most of the time (about 100 more AB’s batting 6th or lower than 5th) jeff doesnt get much protection. yes its nice to have diaz, willie harris and the pitcher backing you up, but face it, pitchers can throw him junk batting 6th because theres no worry about the guys behind him. in alot of ways, when jeff bats 6th he sees himself as what he is, the last big offensive threat in the order until the top comes back around.

when jeff bats 5th his stats across the board are much better.

look, hes not the well rounded hitter we would all like to see him be. but, he is a good hitter, and he is great for this lineup. 105 RBIs makes this team alot better. he does need to learn to make pitchers throw him his pitch, you are absolutely right about that. but, at his place in the order, id rather have doubles and HR, because the guys behind him arent gonna get him in from first after a walk that often.

im thinking after this year, he improves his power number and OPS and becomes a candidate for cleanup hitter in ‘09.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Someone asked about Bobby Cox at FanFest: Braves say he’s not going to be able to make it. No reason given.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

patterson would be ok on the cheap, but i hope bobby wont bat him leadoff.

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

It’s hard to legitimately complain about young kids like Anderson and Blanco and feel good doing it. At least, with Patterson, I could complain with little guilt.

roger that, LOL. Moaning about rookies, well, you might as well complain about a dog being a dog. :-)

Now, Patterson, there’s a guy I could get behind b!tchin’ about, HA!

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

The 6 hitter’s primary responsibility with RISP is to get the run home. Frenchy does that very well. Not everyone on the basketball court can be a pretty 20 point scoring creator who can bomb threes and take it to the hole. Sometimes, you need a rugged power forward to play tough D, be relentless on the boards and score lots of junk points on putbacks off rebounds. As the 6 hitter and rightfielder, Frenchy is the rugged power forward for the Braves squad. He blocks shots with his arm in right and slams the ball when he gets rebounds. That’s not good enough for some I guess. They want their power forward to be shooting threes, taking their man off the dribble, pretending to be a pretty boy guard. That’s the problem with the NBA these days. Too many 7 footers who fancy themselves as point guards. Just be content how much Frenchy scores off of pick and rolls, alley oops, and putbacks.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

DAP, I can’t see any way Cox would bat Patterson and his sub-.300 OBP in the leadoff spot when he’s got two guys who had plus-.400 OBPs as leadoff men last season, Escobar and Kelly Johnson.

And if the Braves do get Patterson, and Cox does bat him leadoff at some point, we should all demand a recount before the season continues….

BRYAN, you’re right: That is the damn funniest article I’ve read in the new year. I was laughing out loud, and I mean several times. Patton Oswalt is just hilarious. And lives in Athens, by the way.

Here’s part of the article Bryan posted on Patton eating a KFC “Famous Bowl,” to entice all to read the entire thing:

The Famous Bowl has a black plastic bottom and a clear plastic top that fogs appealingly from the jungle heat of the beige glop inside. Here’s where, in a quirky indie-film moment, I’d eat a sporkfull and realize… “Hey, this is pretty good!” I had considered that reaction as I drove the Famous Bowl home. It sat on the passenger seat next to me like a sullen runaway I’d picked up on the interstate. I wanted us to bond somehow. I wanted to eat my words. I like when things work out unexpectedly.

The Famous Bowl hit my mouth like warm soda, slouched down my throat, and splayed itself across my stomach like a sun-stroked wino. It was that precise combination of things, and so many other sensations that did not go together. At all.

The gravy, which I remembered as being tangy and delicious in my youth, tasted like the idea of blandness, but burned and then salted to cover the horrid taste. The mashed potatoes defiantly stood their ground against the gravy, as if they’d read The Artist’s Way and said, “I’m going to be boring and forgetful in my own potato-y way!” The corn tasted like it had been dunked in fake-corn-flavored ointment, and the popcorn chicken, breaded to the point of parody, was like chewing a cotton sleeve that someone had used to wipe chicken grease off their chin.

The cheese had congealed. Even in the heat and steam of the covered Famous Bowl, it had congealed. I stabbed it with the tines of my spork and it all came up in one piece. I nibbled an edge, had a vision of a crying Dutch farmer, and put it down.

I managed three or four more spoonfuls, trying to be fair. I am not the healthiest eater, but this was a level of crap I hadn’t earned a belt in yet.

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

KA, if you want to get rebounds, you gotta be able to box out. Relying on hops and wingspan only get you so far, and they don’t maximize your box score. I don’t care if Frenchy ever puts the ball on the floor, LOL, but he’s gotta box out better. Sometimes the ball comes off the rim to somebody else, no?

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

By the way, if you like and haven’t heard Patton Oswalt before, you should really google him and check out his riff on YouTube on living in Athens, Ga., and other stuff that an internet search on him brings up.

I’d link it here, but it’s filthy so I probably shouldn’t officially do it. I’ll just say hey, it’s out there.

By Suits

January 8, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

gee - no Bobby or Hubby at Fan Fest this year?

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Speaking of Athens … what other little town can lay claim to producing both a football national-title contender and this very good thing

By DAP

January 8, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB I can’t see any way Cox would bat Patterson and his sub-.300 OBP in the leadoff spot

i hope youre right, but i wouldnt put it past bobby, especiallly if patterson has a really good week or something. it would be willie harris-esque.

By EM

January 8, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

DOB: The piece below says the braves might have some interest in Corey Patterson (though it’s probably speculation). He stinks offensively, but is pretty good in center and make come on a cheap 1 year deal. Might be worth it as a stopgap, no?

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/07/orioles-may-keep-patterson/

By TennesseePaul

January 8, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

DAP: I’d think, concerning Francoeur, that his OBP would naturally increase if he could maintain the same or similar level of pitch recognition and location while improving his power. By that I mean, a pitcher will pitch more carefully to a high power hitter than a low power hitter. And while Francoeur advanced this past season in his patience and discipline at the plate (of which he still has room for more improvement), he sacrificed some of his long ball power. I’d imagine if he takes a similar approach this season yet hits the ball further, he’ll see pitchers throwing more junk at him to avoid him crushing it out of the park. And as long as he stays true to his improved patience, he’d naturally garner more walks and thus improve his OBP. And, he has released those little tid-bits about hitting the weights this off season to increase his power so hopefully it will pay off. But will all be a factor of him building off this years success in improved patience at the plate. I don’t really see why he couldn’t improve more this coming season.
I don’t know that Francoeur will ever be a 1.000 OPS player year in year out. I’d imagine he’ll be around an 800 OPS type hitter with the occasional monster season.

The kid is good and he still has room for improvement. Hopefully he takes advantage of this season with Chipper and Teixeira and learns more about consistent power hitting (as opposed to AJ’s binge power hitting). When Teixeira walks for the big money next off season we’ll need Francoeur to step into the 4th spot.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

DOB

I don’t know what I typed that made you mad, but I’m sorry for it. I wish you’d tell me what it was so I’d never do it again.

Clemens is a creep.

It was kind of confusing with all the basketball analogy, but I think I got the just of it: Francoeur’s job is to drive runners in—those runners that can make it, apparently—so he better have a high RBI count. And he gets on base by hits, not walks—oh, he gets on by fielder’s choice, too, that’s one of his favorites. Somebody made a point about Not wRight’s stats with RISP compared to Francoeur’s. He had less RBIs than Francoeur because he walked more. Good point.

But I don’t want to beat a dead horse, here. Anyway, we’ll see how things go this baseball season—which is taking too long to get here, BTW.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

KA, if you want to get rebounds, you gotta be able to box out. Relying on hops and wingspan only get you so far, and they don’t maximize your box score. I don’t care if Frenchy ever puts the ball on the floor, LOL, but he’s gotta box out better. Sometimes the ball comes off the rim to somebody else, no?

I’d prefer he not pass the ball to the big clumsy doofus center that Langerhans, Thorman, Wilson, the pitcher/pinch hitter are. Can’t trust those guys to have anything but bad hands and fumble the pass out of bounds. They trip over their own two feet trying to dunk the ball. They end up looking like Charles Smith did for the Knicks under that basket when the entire Bulls team swatted his shot about 15 times in a 5 second span because he was too soft to dunk the ball.

But, yeah, I admit Frenchy has gotta work on boxing out a little better. It wouldn’t hurt him to develop more of back to the basket, post up game either. As you said, he can’t just be the high flying Energizer bunny all the time. We need more Chris Webber and less Marcus Camby out of Frenchy. But, for now, I’m content with how much Raftery screams “Send it in, Big Fella” when Frenchy is up with RISP.

By Renegator

January 8, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

DOB:

I know you said you couldn’t see Bobby batting Patterson leadoff but how many of us thought Bobby would keep batting Andruw clean up last year even at .191.

Trust me - it’s going to happen

By Bryan

January 8, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

More free internet stuff … this is a link that will send your iTunes to a podcast with 8 or 9 free radiohead videos with alt takes from the new album!

in rainbows videos

Only for iTunes users … there is also a helpful review that will tell you how to convert the files for video ipod or iphone (though all you have to do is right click the pod cast and select convert to iPod/iPhone).

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Frenchy “The Rack Monster” Francoeur…send it in, big fella! LMAO

Hopefully, the 7 and 8 hitters in 2008 have better hands and quicker feet!

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Gawd, I wish you hadn’t started with the basketball analogies…I’m still trying to rid my mind of that horrific loss to UNC at Clemson Sunday. Paugh!

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Yes, Wren needs to save Bobby from Bobby. Patterson would be fine enough as the stopgap centerfield playing 8 hitter. But Cox is gonna see the speed and drool. He will have Corey hitting leadoff from day one and never take him out. Wren needs to go Jerry Maguire and tell Bobby “Help me help you” by keeping Corey Patterson off the roster because of how Bobby will use Corey.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Renegator, good point on Andruw batting cleanup last season with sub-.200 average at midseason.

But that was when Evel Knievel was still alive. He’s gone now, God rest his soul.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Ncscoots, Clemson absolutely had that game won. That was a brutal way to lose at home.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Frenchy “The Rack Monster” Francoeur…send it in, big fella! LMAO

I don’t think Catie would appreciate hearing that Frenchy’s other nickname is the Rack Monster.

By Savannah Guy

January 8, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Spartacus was Victorious.

After his final victory, the widely hailed Gladiator was crucified by the walls of Rome. Is the Mitchell Report debacle and Clemens public execution an index to baseball in America or an ominous sign of an impatient, distrustful and bloodthirsty culture looking to exact punishment before a crime is proven? With a turned thumb from the crowd, a Gladiator is being destroyed.

This entire steroids fiasco is disturbing. What has transpired for a dozen years behind the curtains of MLB and the Players Union is a sham. What is playing out in the public square outside the Coliseum is far more troubling than what individual players may have injected.

Not claiming any particular keen insight or long-distance vision, I saw this Mitchell Report mess coming from about 500 miles away. It was not crystal ball stuff nor was it a Nostradamus worthy prediction, but now we’re seeing come to pass what I’ve warned of multiple times, including the prediction that Mitchell and MLB would not accomplish anything productive by releasing a partial list of names in his anemic investigation. This spectacle smacks of McCarthyism and the chattering masses are getting louder all the time.

In terms of our legal system, the game of baseball and all that is good in America, the Mitchell investigation and the resulting injustice may prove to be more of a debacle than the steroid era itself. Contrary to it’s stated purpose, the Mitchell Report may prove convenient for the perpetrators. This may just be useful for the Players Union. This embarrassment may turn out to be an advantage for MLB. This travesty of justice provides a convenient smokescreen for Selig and Fehr. Even with its myopic focus and gross mismanagement, this spectacle couldn’t have been planned or executed any better to achieve a positive outcome for the actual steroid users, dealers and those that profited from an artificially enhanced game.

Now in the world of baseball, instead of hot-stove discussions or talk of spring baseball, all we see in the media and on the blogs are parsing critics, self proclaimed mind readers, lawyers, talking heads, gossip columnists, sports columnists, language experts, handwriting experts, drug experts, PR people, blah, blah, yakety yak and so on.

In the weeks following the release of the Mitchell Report, a scapegoat was required to balance the Barry Bonds investigation and give the appearance that MLB was serious about change. Roger Clemens fit the bill perfectly. Starting before Mike Wallace’s interview and reaching a crescendo after the infamous telephone conversation between Clemens and McNamee, all of Clemens’ words, voice inflections, glances, winces, blinks, squints, gestures, mispronunciations and past rude behaviors now dominate everything in baseball. The man is under a microscope. Who among us could “look” innocent with the harsh light that is being cast on his every twitch and utterance?

Barry Bonds may have really lucked out here. Now he has a diversion to dilute his own issues. Misery loves company. There are and always will be people that think Clemens is guilty. There will always be people that believe Barry Bonds is innocent. There will always be speculation but there will never be a trial for Clemens. Whether you think Roger Clemens is guilty or not, he will never be convicted in a court of law or disciplined by the MLB. But that won’t stop the media circus, the wild speculation and the unfair inflammatory guesswork of the media or fans.

Now we’re seeing Clemens criticized for secretly taping his “friend”. That friend either falsely accused him or, after being in cahoots in an illegal activity, ratted him out. Either way, Clemens was wrong to tape? Are they serious? The man’s career is on the line. His reputation has been besmirched. He has been publicly humiliated. His freedom could be threatened. All of this and he shouldn’t tape the man that betrayed him? Even is Clemens is guilty, that make no sense.

To those that have already convicted Clemens, it doesn’t seem to matter that McNamee is a weasel and of dubious character. It obviously didn’t matter to Mitchell and it doesn’t seem to matter to the hordes of fans that have already convicted Clemens. All that seems to matter is that the big, stubborn, multi-Cy Young winning warrior who has often shunned the media and behaved like a bull in a China shop receives an overdue comeuppance.

That’s right. Tear down the idol. Kill the warrior. Crucify the Gladiator. That’ll surely fix everything. Damn the evidence, to hell with our constitutional right of presumed innocence until proof of guilt and spit on any semblance of benefit of doubt. Someone must pay. Someone big must pay.

Clemens is no saint. He’s obviously not a lawyer or a public speaker. He’s not a pharmacist or a dietician. He’s not particularly articulate. He’s been rude to the media and so on, but those personality traits and habits don’t make the man guilty.

There are those that say the burden of proof to arrive at a guilty verdict shouldn’t be as rigid for sports as it is for other crimes and misdemeanors tried in a criminal courtroom. Why on earth would that be the case? Why the double standard? Is it that we think sports stars are either above us or below us but never “like” us? Is it that sports stars are rich, therefore deserving of harsh treatment? Is it that sports stars don’t deserve the same protection as thieves and murderers? Do we think that no baseball pitcher could or should win as many games and have a career go on that long?

Personally, I just don’t get the moral and ethical contradictions I’ve seen coming from people on this. What has happened to our sense of justice? Is this the car wreck that many NASCAR race fans love to witness but would never admit? Is this a case of the “have-nots” taking down one of the “haves”? By taking down one of the greatest pitchers of all time, do we feel relieved that the righteous authorities and MLB finally did something grandiose to prove once and for all that they actually care about cleaning up our hallowed game?

Perhaps the roar of the crowd has inspired Marcus Licinius Crassus to call for a showing of thumbs. The more successful the Gladiator, the more thrilled the crowds become with his demise. Thumbs down and a defeated warrior would surely restore order and power to the throne. The citizens would have their blood. The fans would have a vicarious victory over one that, until that day they had admired, cheered for and even idolized.

The most victorious warriors certainly make the most exciting and impressive victims. Is it because the spectators and fanatics could leave the stadium feeling their own meager lives were somehow made more glorious…somehow their own sins redeemed? At long last, the seemingly invincible Spartacus that so many cheered was being crucified. Somehow, in the twisted mindset of the rabid fans, they were no longer less than the warrior.

The true perpetrators and profiteers of this carnage will never be accused, much less tried in the court of law or public opinion. Their hands are clean. They did their dirty work with a wink and a nod. They were nowhere near the shadows where snakes sold and dispensed the drugs. They were nowhere near the kids who made the bad decision to take PED’s to compete against other kids that were also artificially enhancing themselves with PED’s.

The true perpetrators of the steroid era made untold fortunes on the backs, the livers, hearts, muscles and bones of the young players. They…the ones who profited by the abnormal expectations and accomplishments of the kids that play should be the primary focus of the investigation, not the players that were named and accused by people with every reason to have ulterior motives.

In a world of true justice, Bud Selig would be forced to step down. Donald Fehr would be forced out. The Mitchell Report should be filed in the botched investigation box that resembles a trash bin. Those things will never happen. George Mitchell. Unwitting as he may have been, should be roundly criticized for this inept effort and conflict of interest with his affiliations with the Boston Red Sox. The dubious report defies all standards of jurisprudence and investigative process. It is monumental lapse of good judgment and common sense. Announcing player’s names on nothing but uncorroborated tales from suspicious characters is a crime in and of itself.

MLB should be criticized and restructured for it’s dubious procrastination and blind eye for so many years while young players were literally dying to compete. Drug testing and proactive technical R&D should be a priority and commenced immediately. Zero tolerance should be enacted.

But here we were last month and today and here we will be for months and years to come…talking about whether Roger Clemens insinuated this or gestured that or blinked when he said such and such. Collectively, we are so high and mighty that we can read minds and pass judgment before we have a shred of proof. My citizens, that is adverse to what America stands for.

Who among us knows if Clemens took steroids? I’ll guarantee that I don’t know the answer and neither do any of you. Clemens may or may not be guilty. That will probably never be known, but that’s not the point in this. Point is, the way this was ignored for so many years, the way it was investigated and the way a partial list of names was released without any more evidence than a drug dealer’s word is what I have a problem with.

Clemens is being tarred and feathered because of the testimony of a known liar and self-confessed lawbreaker. Clemens has already been found guilty in the court of public opinion. It is a shame and it is a travesty. Even if Roger Clemens passes a lie detector test with flying colors, vehemently denies steroid use when he testifies under oath before Congress on January 16th and even if McNamee recants his testimony and accusations, Clemens will remain guilty by many. The warrior must fall. Then Mitchell, Selig and Fehr and many fans can go about their business knowing that something symbolic was done to clean up the game of baseball.

It’s truly a disgrace and a pity to see what’s become of baseball in all of this. It’s getting to the point that I don’t even care who did what. I just want the MLB to get their act together and fix it immediately. No solutions will be found in individual prosecutions or rear view mirrors. Cherry-picking violators will serve no justice.

Because of this, I’m hoping Clemens is cleared. That will provide something more useful than seeing a warrior brought down. It would be a smack in the face of Crassus and his minions and an indication of how pointless and fruitless this inquisition has been. Sorry for taking up so much space and hurting your eyeballs, but it’s important. It’s huge. It’s not just about baseball; it’s about our culture. Perhaps that’s just me.

Whether Clemens is guilty or not, MLB needs to fix baseball and Americans need to step back and consider the madness of our unfair prejudgment and persecution of individuals.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

10paul i think that frenchy’s extra strength will help him turn some of those opp. field doubles into homers.

ill never forget his first homer in the majors. it was to right-center, and i dont think he hit one there all season in 2007. he needs to be able to hit it out everywhere.

by the way, i think your right that if his power improves, his OBP will, and i think the if he bats 5th all the time it will improve as well.

By Licking His Wounds?

January 8, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Lew’s sure been absent from the blog a long while. Perhaps he’s hard at work on his Bobby Cox nose-picking Wurlitzer for Robert.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

McFann Francoeur’s job is to drive runners in—those runners that can make it, apparently—so he better have a high RBI count.

and he does, so i guess its all good.

did you get your wulitzer yesterday?

By Bo

January 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Happy Birthday Bruce Sutter 55yrs and counting.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Lew, licking his wounds? You must be mad. No chance of that. He’s got 6,000 medications, vitamins, home remedies to take care of any wound or injury. Most likely he just pours maple syrup on his wounds and keeps coming. Sometimes, Lew reminds of Robert Deniro/Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull. All blooodied at the end of his battle with Sugar Ray Robinson, he keeps taunting Ray, “You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down.”

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

January 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

And Happy Birthday, Elvis, wherever you are!

By Josh H

January 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

On the subject of Patton Oswalt…his “Nick Nolte as Han Solo” impression is hilarious.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DAP

Yeah, it’s good that he has a high RBI count. But some people around here think it should have been higher. I say anything over 100 is pretty darn good. (But of course, 93 and 92 are nice numbers, too.)

No, I didn’t get my Wurlitzer yesterday. I got mine on Saturday. It rocks.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Returning for a moment to our discussion of The Man, Greg Maddux, from last week: Nevermind catching Clemens (Maddog needs only seven wins to catch Roger), do you folks realize Maddux needs only 17 wins to surpass’ Spahn’s 363 and become the the winningest pitcher since 1930?

By McFann

January 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

One more thing, DAP—now this may be a silly question but um—was your Wurlitzer perhaps a portrait of oh, say……Jeff Francoeur?

By David-ATL14

January 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

greg in Tennessee know your hometown well.

Wife worked there for years(Defense department). used to live close to your area in Knoxville.

Now reside 40 miles down the road in a sleepy little town called sweetwater.

Good to see and hear from a fellow Braves fan from my neck of the woods.

By Bryan

January 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy … damn son … you been holding back on us? That was epic …

Some where in heaven Martin Luther just mumbled

“if your having ‘roid problems i feel bad for you son, I got 95 theses and Clemens ain’t one”

OK, seriously though, a lot of what you write makes since as you develop a theme … but it seems like as you got on a roll there the further your argument perpetuated the roll and the farther and farther your ideas moved away from the reality of the situation … . your making a lot of assumptions … and i am not sure i want to make some of the leaps you make …

I agree that there are some things wrong going on … but you are making it into an epic scenario which i believes further distorts the truth …

good post

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Happy birthday, indeed, to The King. Thanks for noting that, Bring Me the Head….

Speaking of Taking Care of Business, I was watching the DVD of Presley’s ‘68 Comeback Special with my girlfriend couple nights ago, and she seemed a bit surprised at how genuinely cool was the man in the black-leather suit. She’s a bit younger than me, and only knows Elvis as an overweight caricature or as the guy on black-velvet paintings like the one at Shorty’s restaurant near my house.

I tell you, this younger generation missed out on true coolness by not getting to see Brando, McQueen and Elvis in their primes.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

And you guys realize Golden Boy shares a birthday with The King? Yes, Francoeur is 24 today.

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, re the Tigers, it took a great confluence of unfortunate events to fritter that game away…missing 13 FT in regulation, missing a point-blank put-back at the buzzer, Potter missed intercepting the pass to Ellington by a fingernail, and on and on and on. Man.

Sunday was the first time I had seen the Heels play this year, and I will say one thing about them: them suckers are seriously quick. Tigers are pretty fleet themselves, but that Lawson is a blur. I haven’t seen Kansas this year, but I hear they have some pretty good quicks, too. Best you don’t turn your head while playing any of the three.

Guarantee that Hansbrough was in the whirlpool Monday, though. That boy ended up just one big bruise.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

I tell you, this younger generation missed out on true coolness by not getting to see Brando, McQueen and Elvis in their primes.

Yeah, but you’re too old to truly appreciate just how cool Jason Priestley and Luke Perry were.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

McFann no, ive never shown an unhealthy obsession for any particular braves player, so lew didnt have an obvious choice to send me like he did for you. i got chipper jones, and its really awesome.

By Savannah Guy

January 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Bryan, I’m not sure the “truth” can ever be known…or be distorted any more than it’s already been.

In the end, folks will believe what they want to believe based upon their own ability to reason and their own value system. But you knew that.

By Random

January 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Coach—

Sorry, not everyone’s with you on this — I for one am with Lew.

Everyone’s presumed innocent ‘til proven guilty, everyone’s presumed smart ‘til they prove themselves otherwise. The jury’s still out on you, but they’re in the sentencing phase.

8-> Just joking.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

“Unhealthy obsession”?

Oh brother.

No, you’re correct. You haven’t been obsessing about Francoeur. Sorry, my bad. You’ve just said constantly that the Braves’ lineup is so good because of him and not all the players combined.

There’s no “I” in “team”, my friend.

By David-ATL14

January 8, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Forgot to weigh in on Patterson.

Color me unimpressed but if Wren and Co see him as a viable option, Then so be it. Hopefully Schafer is ready very soon if Patterson is part of the answer.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

There’s no “I” in “team”, my friend.

But there is a ME.

By ncscoots

January 8, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

There’s no “I” in “team”, my friend.

“…but there is a ‘me’ in there, if you rearrange the letters a little” — Dr. Gregory House, MD

By brian

January 8, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

he may try patterson at #1 with Escobar taking over Renteria’s spot at #2. I think in this case speed is overrated and I would bat Escobar #1 and KJ #2 with CF #8. Then again I post on the computer and play fantasy baseball on yahoo. I am not Bobby Cox

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

David-ATL, I don’t think Braves would see Patterson as anything more than he is — a possible good-defense, short-term solution in center, merely so they don’t have to rush their future CF to the bigs before they’re fairly certain he’s ready.

And only if Patterson would come very cheap.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

McFann You’ve just said constantly that the Braves’ lineup is so good because of him and not all the players combined.

c’mon man, dont misconstrue my statements like that. thats not even close to what ive said. i never said the team aint nuthin’ and francouer carries it, but you on the other hand said that francouer’s results are because of the lineup he is in, and i dont think youve given him the credit he deserves. there are two parts to his number’s: his ability and the situation he is in (i.e. his team) you started the thread by discounting his talent, so in order to correct you, i stressed it.

just a tid bit, braves ranked third from the top in the NL in runs in 2007, and without francouer’s 105RBIs, they are 3rd from the bottom.

he’s a very big part of making the braves lineup successful.

By StingerSplash

January 8, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Wow! Thanks for the REM-YouTube link. Mills looks like a lost Bacon brother in that clip. They used to come to my little backwoods school all the time. We always figured that no matter how good we thought they were, we can go see them anytime because, hell, they’re just REM, they’ll always be here. That was the Reagan administration. They ain’t been back.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Goose Gossage is in. He’s only new HOF inductee.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

brian Then again I post on the computer and play fantasy baseball on yahoo. I am not Bobby Cox

im with you, man. bobby has had a great career and deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to baseball strategy, but he drives me crazy sometimes.

By doc

January 8, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

to the doubters saying clemens is getting a raw deal:

didnt the authority that baseball appointed declare clemens guilty just like the same organization did its due diligence on rose and found him rightly guilty when he finally fessed up after all those years?

isnt that enough or is it really public opinion rather than baseball declaring it?

do you think baseball is going to risk going down because of a false allegation?

where is the union in this? hands in their pocket for a reason?

isnt clemens going after the guy with the smallest pockets rather than taking on the hand that fed him all these years baseball itself that really accused him that has all the evidence and the truly deep pockets?

isnt this a ploy to get him from having to face congress next week and have to udder a word? isnt that how bonds slipped the bit the last time because of federal investigations?

By Anders

January 8, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

DOB

I tell you, this younger generation missed out on true coolness by not getting to see Brando, McQueen and Elvis in their primes

This may be true, but Elvis, McQueen and Brando all missed David Wright. Poor souls.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Rice jumped all the way to 72.2 percent, so he should get the 75 necessary next year. And Blyleven jumped from 48 to 62 percent, so he’s well on the way. Andre Dawson (who belongs in the HOF, in my opinion) also had a pretty big jump, to nearly 66 percent.

Gossage is fifth reliever inducted. I think that bodes well for Smoltz’s future chances, that value that voting writers are now putting on top relief work.

On a sour note, Murph still only got 13.8 percent of the votes (75 total), a good jump from last year but still seemingly a loooong way from ever getting voted in.

By StingerSplash

January 8, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

I got to thinking about Clemens’ comments on “60 Minutes”: “It didn’t happen…” “It never happened…” “(any combination of a negative and the verb tenses of happen)…” Sounds a lot like someone is trying convince himself first and everyone else second that what he took in the butt wasn’t HGH or testosterone or another PED. Hey, I can tell myself all day long that the ball rolling through Buckner’s legs “never happened” or that McHale fumbling a rebound on a missed free throw out of bounds “never happened” (leading to Magic’s baby sky hook in the lane). And as McNamee continued to ask Clemens what should he do, Clemens never said to tell the world that he didn’t take steroids, or for McNamee to own up to not shooting him in the backside with the juice. I wanted to believe Clemens — but Sunday and Monday’s performances made McGwire’s showing in front of Congress Olivier-esque.

By Random

January 8, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Kiss Arse—

Depp … Grieco … Depp … Grieco …

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Good point, Anders.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

There’s no “i” in team, but there’s three in irritating. And two in impish.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

and theres no “i” in SHEEEEESH!

By Alex

January 8, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Just a heads-up.

I got a hold of the new Black Crowes album that comes out in March. While I’m a bit biased in that I am a big fan, I can say it is a really great album. I usually would refrain from commenting on an album by a favorite band for a few months to let the fanatic in me wear off and rational thought take over, but my reaction to their last two albums was an instant thumbs down….and it has stuck over the years. This one is a instant thumbs up. It is a good bit twangy, no gimmicks, recorded in two weeks at Allaire studios in upstate New York (same place MMJ recorded “Z”) and features the newest member of the band, Luther Dickenson of the North Mississippi All-Stars, on guitar. Its a great roots rock album and well worth checking out.

also, ever go to aquariumdrunkard.com? I’m pretty sure you do, but if you don’t, do.

By Anders

January 8, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Goose Droppings:

Goose Gossage had the distinction of being the first player to make the All Star game in all four original divisions.He went with the White Sox, Pirates, Yankees and Padres. I’ve won many a beer over this trivia question - lot’s of folks forget his Pirate stint. I don’t think anyone else ever accomplished this? I’m sure it hasn’t been done since MLB went to 6 divisions.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Depp … Grieco … Depp … Grieco …

Very cool dudes on Jumpstreet. Wasn’t digging the Deluise guy much. Hard to take anyone related to Dom Deluise very seriously. But Hollie Robinson, oh, yes, poppa liked. poppa liked very much. damn rodney peete stole her away from me.

By Anders

January 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

There is an “i” in Wright so I think that kind of kills that whole philosophy of “i” being negative. -Just saying.

By Northbeach scott

January 8, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Well deserved HOF recognition for the Goose. The man was a stud out of the pen.

Could we just ignore McMoron and move the discussion forward? Most of us think highly of Frenchy and Heep—they are exciting young players who have contributed and who have upsides. Albeit neither are perfect, most of us will take ‘em.

Less than 40 days until the start of Spring!

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 8, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

DAP: just a tid bit, braves ranked third from the top in the NL in runs in 2007, and without francouer’s 105RBIs, they are 3rd from the bottom.

yeah, but that would mean that whoever is playing instead of francoeur would have 0 rbi for the year(or, no more than 11 rbi, since the 3rd team from the bottom was the diamondbacks with 687). if francouer isn’t in the lineup, then somebody’s playing RF on a regular basis, and MLB outfielders are usually good RBI-producers.

by comparison, in 2005 raul mondesi had 17 rbi in 41 games. averaged out to 162 games, that’s 67 rbi. (i would think that if mondesi played the whole season, he wouldn’t have that many. i’d say he might have gotten 50.) if you replace francouer’s 105 rbi with whoever’s 50-67 rbi, that would make the team 8th in the league, right in the middle of the pack.

so, i might say that francoeur definitely helps take this team to another level — with him, they’re in the top 3; without him, they’d be in the middle of the pack (depending on who’s playing instead of him).

By Lew

January 8, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Licking my wounds because someone disagreed with me? Get flipping real. I’ve got artwork to do and Spring Training to get ready for. Still got medication and vitamins to take. Just said all I intend to and devoted all the time I care to to a subject that got way more time than it deserved. What is to be gained by continued argument with Coach? Will anyone ever convince him to change his position, anyway? Or me for that matter?

By Lew

January 8, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Johnny Depp’s band Rock City Angels were pretty damn good, too (though all their recording was done without him). They played some pretty good straight ahead rock and were one of the better 80’s bands that no one ever heard before-unfortunately Poison got all the airplay instead of some more deserving bands like RCAngels and Tora Tora.

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Goose Gossage had the distinction of being the first player to make the All Star game in all four original divisions.He went with the White Sox, Pirates, Yankees and Padres. I’ve won many a beer over this trivia question

Sounds like a bunch of wild and crazy guys having many nights of drunken debauchery. Is that your go to pickup line?

By doc

January 8, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

you are a good man lew.

By Random

January 8, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, McFann —

Great — thanks!

Braveheart: I’ll move on myself, as soon as I make sure you aren’t pulling statististical wool over our eyes with all those alleged, so-called “numbers”.

;-)

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 8, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

I read this comment from another blog post, If true this bodes well for for the Braves against lefties this year.

With the trade for Ohman, we’re going to open the season with Ring as the primary lefty, and Ohman as the lefty specialist (Ohman’s splits againse left-handers are absolutely stunning. He hasn’t allowed a run off the bat of a lefty in the last 3 years, and consistently holds them to averages under or around .200).

By Lew

January 8, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Thank you Doc. I try-occasionally.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

I don’t give Francoeur the “credit he deserves” because he gets so much from other people. C’mon, the love for that dude is everywhere!! I’ll acknowledge that, yes, he’s a good player. And sure, he helps the team a lot, the lineup wouldn’t quite be the same without him, blah blah blah. But (monkey), if he was in a different lineup, and bat behind guys like Chris Woodward, Craig Wilson, Andruw Jones, and so forth, he wouldn’t have 105 RBIs. Why don’t we settle this and say that he’s a good hitter, and the hitters in front of get on base because they know he’ll knock ‘em home?

Except McCann, of course. He needs to start hitting triples so he cann score on some of those 100 some-odd singles that Francouer hits every year.

For cryin’ out loud, DOB! Why do you say I’m irritating? Because I am, or because I made you mad? Sheesh, man. (But that thing about there being an “I” in irritating was funny.)

McMoron? Funny, man. Funny. I’ll quit my rants when you quit kissin’ up to Francoeur. BTW, how do his boots taste, anyway?

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 8, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

I guess I should check out rumors at least with minimal research before I post outlandish stuff. Ohman gave up 7 runs last year to lefties. My last post was incorrect.

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

The 6 hitter’s primary responsibility with RISP is to get the run home. Frenchy does that very well.

Does he do that well? I don’t know. Not saying he is not or will not be a great player but I don’t know if this statement is true. I mean, if you are judging by RBI total, how do you know? RBI total depends a lot on how often he comes to the plate and how many runners are on and where they are when he comes to the plate. Getting on at a decent rate and slugging at a decent rate is what I want in a number six hitter, or any hitter. That’s how runs are scored. RBI total is very limited in terms of telling us how much a guy has contributed to his team.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Shaun!!

Without Francoeur’s 105 RBIs, they are third from the bottom DAP

Yeah, and without the guys who got on base, Francoeur wouldn’t have collected 105 RBIs!

By Kiss Arse

January 8, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Does he do that well? I don’t know. Not saying he is not or will not be a great player but I don’t know if this statement is true. I mean, if you are judging by RBI total, how do you know? RBI total depends a lot on how often he comes to the plate and how many runners are on and where they are when he comes to the plate. Getting on at a decent rate and slugging at a decent rate is what I want in a number six hitter, or any hitter. That’s how runs are scored. RBI total is very limited in terms of telling us how much a guy has contributed to his team.

Frenchy’s career with RISP: 472 plate appearances, 419 at bats, 139 hits, 26 doubles, 1 triple, 19 homers, 195 RBIs, .332 batting average, .381 on base percentage, .535 slugging percentage

Frenchy’s career with men on base: 741 plate appearances, 674 at bats, 202 hits, 35 doubles, 2 triples, 32 homers, 223 RBIs, .300 batting average, .340 on base percentage, .500 slugging percentage

Is that well enough for you? He can’t knock in runs when there are not RISP or on base unless he racks up solo homers. Dude is an RBI guy because he doesn’t walk alot which increases his opportunities to knock in runs and he hits the hell out of the ball with RISP.

What I said was not primarily based upon his RBI totals but his production with RISP and the fact that he does not walk alot with RISP which means he is gonna have more RBIs because he has more RBI opportunities on balls put into play. That can make one an RBI guy just the same way a leadoff hitter who walks alot can become a runs guy.

OBP is very important for run production but very overrated the lower you get down the order. No point in getting all those ducks on a pond if no one wants to drive ‘em home.

By Random

January 8, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy, et al, et al—

Hot on the heels of the release of the Mitchell report, here come all the self-righteous preachers, pundits and bloggers, some hypocritical, some not, beating their breasts, rending their garments, tearing their hair, and alternately hysterically accusing “users” and decrying “cheats”, mournfully bemoaning the “state of the game” and woefully wondering “what can be done to fix it”.

Well, it ain’t broke and it don’t need fixin’.

Most fans expect and demand that players do everything they can to make themselves better players — nutrition, training, practice, physical therapy, nutritional supplements, film, psychological therapy, listening to coaches, legal drugs, hypnosis, whatever it takes — where do you draw the line? Can one thing that helps you heal faster — physical therapy or diathermy — be better or more “moral” than another — HGH? Can one thing that makes you stronger, or faster, or better looking — flexibility, aerobic or weight training — be better or more “moral” than another — anabolic steroids? Are we all still Puritans?

Some school marms bleat “what about the health effects, the damage to the body?” — adults can make adult decisions.

Some den mothers cry about an “uneven playing field” — it’s always been uneven. Wally Pipp and Lou Gehrig. Chipper Jones and Mike Squires. Francoeur and McCann (;-P).

“But what about the kids?!?” Kids should not be taking steroids — who is giving steroids to kids? Not the athletes. And there is no valid argument based on athletes’ supposed “role model” responsibilities. Never underestimate the value of a bad example, if you do choose to label certain behavior “bad”.

“Cheating” in baseball — whatever shall we do?!?!? In a nutshell, get over it.

PS: Not picking on you, Savannah Guy — your cogent post was one of the most thoughtful I’ve seen here. I’m just trying to ride on your coattails, if you don’t mind — drafting, as it were. Gilt by association. Thanks.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 8, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

McFann: But (monkey), if he was in a different lineup, and bat behind guys like Chris Woodward, Craig Wilson, Andruw Jones, and so forth, he wouldn’t have 105 RBIs.

That argument can be made for any player. If ARod was in a lineup with those guys, he wouldn’t have 150+ rbi, no matter how many HR he hits. Anyone with basic baseball knowledge knows that a player’s total RBI is directly impacted by the ability of the guys hitting before you to get on base. That said, it’s up to the batter to get those guys in, and Francouer does that well — not simply because there are runners on base.

Why don’t we settle this and say that he’s a good hitter, and the hitters in front of get on base because they know he’ll knock ‘em home?

No, the hitters in front of him get on base because that’s what they’re supposed to do, not because they know he’ll knock ‘em home. Regardless of who is batting behind them, batters try to get on base. Doing otherwise would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

By OrlandoFan

January 8, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

The focus on Frenchy always amazes me. The guy has barely more than 2 seasons in the majors, and it’s like everyone expects him never to have a fault. He can play the game, and he improved in so many ways last year. More selectivity, fewer Ks and higher BA. The power numbers will come. RBIs are as much circumstance as anything, and the Braves have a lineup that allows him to develop. His defense is icing. The guy has game and will be everything all of you want and expect. But let him be 25 first before you demand so much.

And, DOB, good note earlier on The King and how so many missed on the true talent the man was before he wasted so much of himself. He came from behing beaten up in a high school in Memphis because he was plucking a guitar to being the biggest star of the century, sort of self-made from nothing to everything. He didn’t know better than to self destruct. Sounds like a lot of athletes we’ve seen, huh.

By Mike S

January 8, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Can we move on, please?

Both are great young players that are going to be the heart of the Braves for quite a long time (hopefully). Does it really matter which one is “better” than the other? Since that is such a subjective evaluation anyways, haven’t we weighed in enough to put that matter to bed and enjoy them both for all of the (different) things they do for this team??

Granted, there isn’t a whole lot going on right now in terms of Braves news, but I find zero enjoyment in dissecting the weaknesses of two under-25 guys who have only played a few years in the bigs and are already MAJOR contributors to the Braves.

By N8

January 8, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

McFann

“Yeah, and without the guys who got on base, Francoeur wouldn’t have collected 105 RBIs!”

Are you truly an idiot, or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? THAT is the reason I questioned whether you were/are a Mets troll in disguise.

Here’s a correction for you.

ANDRUW JONES is a person who WOULD NOT have received all those RBI without guys on base ahead of him. He SUCKED with RISP. So it was the QUANTITY of AB’s as opposed to the QUALITY of AB’s that made the difference when he was batting cleanup.

As for Francoeur? Seems to me that he was batting BEHIND Andruw most of the year. More than likely leading off a lot of innings or batting second in the inning with McCann ahead of him (until Tex arrived).

So, due to his GOOD batting average with RISP, he accumulated RBI in “less chances” than Andruw had. In fact if Andruw would have been ANYTHING CLOSE to the player he was in 2005, Francoeur would have had about 20-30 MORE RBI!!!

Stop spouting off about a player you don’t like, as opposed to using your 12 year old…..er…. I mean “I’m old enough to have watched the Honeymooners with my Grandpa”, brain to actually THINK ABOUT IT.

Face it dude. Francouer is a GOOD MLB PLAYER. Maybe nothing more. Surely nothing less. But I can tell you this much: He’s the best offensive OF we have on the 25 Man roster, and happens to be (according to voters), the 3rd best defensive OF in the NL.

How many years did Andruw get a “pass” because of his defense? Face it. Francoeur is a good enough OF, that if he “only” hits 20-25 HR and knocks in 90-110 runs per year for the next decade, that will be MORE THAN good enough.

Meanwhile, when your “boy” McCann is playing on damaged knees in about 5-6 years, he’ll be a DH (because he is a good hitter as well), due to him not being athletic enough to move to 1B.

Correct me if I’m wrong but NOBODY can collect RBI “without guys on base”, right?

Well. Let me correct that. Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds were capable of collecting aroun 50-70 RBI with a bunch of solo HR.

If Chris Woodward was batting 6th “with all those guys on base”, believe me…..he wouldn’t have had anthing close to 105 RBI.

Argue away my friend.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Kiss Arse, Daybed Wagmoe

Um…duh.

Yeah, that thing I said about the guys getting on base in front of Francoeur came out wrong. And really, this argument is kind of stupid. Kiss, what you said is like, DUH. Of course somebody can’t get RBIs if there’s no one on base unless he hits solos is a no-brainer. And doesn’t a player try harder to get on base if the guys behind him are good run producers? Maybe they try hard either way, no? What do I know, eh? Yeah, that was another dumb one by yours truely, McMoron.

Ahhh…but seriously, folks. the conversation is kind of dumb. Every time somebody says one thing that they think is an argument, it ends up sounding dumb, or supporting the other person.

How ‘bout this: Francoeur drives in runs because the guys in front of him get on base!

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

McFann,

Question is not where they’d be without Francoeur’s RBI. Would someone else have driven in more runs than Francoeur given the same lineup and same amount of playing time? And how much more?

Look, Carlos Pena drove in more runs than Chipper Jones. Does that tell us anything about either player as far as how many runs they contributed to their respective teams?

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

That argument can be made for any player. If ARod was in a lineup with those guys, he wouldn’t have 150+ rbi, no matter how many HR he hits. Anyone with basic baseball knowledge knows that a player’s total RBI is directly impacted by the ability of the guys hitting before you to get on base.

Exactly. That’s why RBI should not be the primary thing we look at when determining a player’s contributions to his team; and RBI is actually a rather poor measure of how much a player contributes.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 8, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout this: Francoeur drives in runs because the guys in front of him get on base!

you can replace “Francoeur” with the name of any other baseball player.

By Shaun

January 8, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

All you Francoeur fans (and I count myself among you), you’d be better off talking about the fact that he raised his OBP by .045 points and nearly doubled his walk total, he’s only 24 (today), and he plays Gold Glove defense rather than talk about his RBI total. That’s what’s most impressive about this guy. He hasn’t let the misguided talk about his strikeout total affect his aggressiveness, yet he still increased his on-base percentage and walk total by controlling some of his over-aggression.

By BossLady

January 8, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

DOB 2:28 very funny,

By DonCoburleone

January 8, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

I really like the idea of a Corey Patterson signing… Would the Braves really not be willing to sign him to a 1 year, $5mil contract? It has to be $3mil or less? Patterson is the exact kind of free agent signing the Braves have been talking about (in regards to center-field). He’s very good defensively, would come cheap, and is a known commodity… I know he can’t get on base (career .298OBP), but he has been getting better at not striking out (only 65 strikeouts in 461AB’s last season) and look at his strikeout rate in his career, it shows a nice downward trend: (‘02: 4.17 AB’s per SO;;; ‘03: 4.27;;; ‘04: 3.8;;; ‘05: 3.8;;; ‘06: 4.9;;; ‘07: 7.1)…

And as everyone knows, the less you strikeout, the more potential you have to get on base. He is in the middle of his “prime” at age 28 and still has the potential to improve. SIGN HIM!!!

By Greg in TN

January 8, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Afternoon gang…

No surprises in Cooperstown in that the Goose gets a pass to the hallowed halls therein, and I am fine with the results of the vote for the most part.

DOB, I agree. Rice should make it next year along with Rickey Henderson (“I am the greatest… of all time… Thank you”. Ironically Rickey’s gushing on breaking 938 was upstaged later that evening in Arlington when Nolan Ryan threw no hitter number seven and both occurred on my 21st birthday.)

Looking at the vote totals and comparing them to last year, I find just about everyone returning got a bump in their vote totals except for Harold Baines and… Mark McGwire. In fact, McGwire got the same amount of votes from one year to the next, which I find intriguing. The one year punishment (if one can call it that) of McGwire by the BBWAA has gotten stretched into a second year.

Looks like Bert Blyleven is gaining favor, and more votes with a gain of 76 votes from 2007. Andre Dawson gained 49 votes, Tommy John gained 33 and Jack Morris 31.

Another disappointing year personally for me in seeing Dale Murphy still well behind the pack. He gained 25 more votes to end with 75, but it’s just not going to be enough. We’ll see if the Veteran’s Committee is any kinder to Murph.

David-ATL14 Yes, still very much a government town. My father worked for 30-years here (and just about everybody else’s mom and dad growing up either worked for DOE or one of the contractors). Nice to know there’s a denizen in the neighborhood. Been to Sweetwater a time or two myself over the years.

By N8

January 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

shaun

In response to McFann, you said:

“That’s why RBI should not be the primary thing we look at when determining a player’s contributions to his team; and RBI is actually a rather poor measure of how much a player contributes”

Lightning may strike me down as I type, because I’m gonna agree with you. While it’s not THE statistic to determine a player’s value, a TEAM cannot have success (offensively) WITHOUT guys capable of picking up those RBI when guys are on base.

Andruw had a statistically “decent” year in HR and RBI, however, I believe it to be common sense that tells us, if he had had a better season in general with the bat and with RISP, those “decent” numbers would have been outstanding.

In reality, it goes to prove what natural talent he has. Because without that natural ability, along with his approach at the plate, he would have had a TERRIBLE year.

To me, come crunch time, picking up the “big” RBI, is what seperates the boys from the men, at the plate. Before you (or anybody) goes off on me, my definition of “big” RBI, is pretty much ANY RBI opportunity one might have. Of course there are “easy” RBI opportunities (say when your team is up by 5 or 10 runs - a player may be more relaxed at the plate and have greater success), it’s in tight and close game situations, where a guy shows his true “approach” at the plate, and knowledge of in game situations.

To me, Francoeur has shown a MUCH greater approach last season, than Andruw has at any point (NOT occurring in 2005), of his entire career.

McCann is even better at it, IMO.

But to discredit Francouer (or any MLB player), for doing his job with guys on base ahead of him is silly, at best.

By McFann

January 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

N8

Andruw Jones [stunk] with RISP

Ya know, it’s not even fair to compare the AJ of 2007 to…anybody, really. Andruw [stunk] with RISP, he stunk without RISP, he stunk with nobody on base, he just stunk, period. And I typed—or at least, I thought I did—that Woodward wouldn’t have collected 100+ RBIs in Francoeur’s place, because the man could not hit. I think we’re just going to have to except that we feel “differently” about this subject—even though, if you really think about it, we don’t. Like somebody (everybody, really) said, it’s a team game. The Braves wouldn’t have scored as many runs without Francoeur, and Francoeur wouldn’t have knocked in as many men without those guys on base. I mean DUH!

We don’t know how some other dude would have done if given Francoeur’s chances and playing time. For all we know, any other outfielder (especially AJ) might have done worse, but some one might have done better. If you want, I’ll find out how many men Francoeur and the other players of your choice left on base for 2007. It’ll take me a long time, but I’d have it by…tomorrow. (Unless anybody knows a faster way than dissecting every game.)

Will you guys cut the crud about McCann not being able to run? My gosh. You don’t know how he’ll be in 5-6 years. Nobody cann see that far into the future. (Except David Wright. I here he built a time machine.) He just wasn’t gifted with speed. OK, I get it!! Sheesh! Like I typed last night, he knew that before high school!! You don’t think the Braves will resign him when his contract is up? We’ll see, pal. We’ll see. And if he’s “not athletic enough to move to 1B”, why would somebody want him to hit? All he’d ever do would be ground out if he made contact.

I’ll make a deal with you: You cut the crud on Brian’s lack of speed and being “overweight”, and I’ll stop cutting up on Francoeur. (Unless I’m called on it by some of you. Like, if you want that men-left-on-base [MLOB] stat.)

By flange1

January 8, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Afternoon All,

DOB, thanks for the REM link! That was fun

On Roger,

I personally agree with Lew that we cannot and should not convict anyone on the crap evidence that is the Mitchell Report. But I also believe that there is some interesting smoke around Roger. The B-12 Lidocaine stuff is absurd and I don’t understand why Macnamee would lie about Roger but tell the truth about Petitte. I think the Mitchell Report leads us to believe that Roger MAY have been juiced, but does not prove that he was. I heard a sports writer say that he has 3 groups of players in this era, the guys he knows DID steroids, the guys who COULD have done steroids and finally the guys who DIDNOT do steroids. The only people he would not vote for for the HOF were the folks in group 1. I think Roger just moved to group 2 in my book. FYI, Dale Murphy is in group 1, G. Mota is in group 3…

On Frenchy,

We can talk about stats all we want, what I believe about Jeff in his brief career is: 1. He has tons of natural ability. 2. He shows that he will work hard and listen to his coaches. 3. He can improve and has shown that he can. 4. He will continue to improve. 5. The Braves are lucky to have a kid of his talent on the team.

Does that about cover it?

McFann, this McCann love affair of yours is getting a bit old. Frankly, the use of the word DUH so much is a bit condescending. I know you are supposed to be a teen aged girl who has very little baseball knowledge, but your continued whining is getting to be a bit obtuse…

By McFann

January 8, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

F1

This McCann love affair of yours is getting a bit old…

You haven’t heard the half of it, pal.

“Condescending”? Yeah. I agree. I’ll quit on the duh. But my support of McCann is stayin’, people.

By flange1

January 8, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

McFann,

Support Brian all you want! He is a great player and the Braves are lucky to have him, but you don’t have to talk other players down to talk McCann up….

By Metropolitan Man

January 8, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Is it true Booby “Eject Button Here” Cocks, got EJECTED from ‘Fan Fest” before it even started??? No one is ever going to break that record. Oh yeah, Clemens is as guilty as Mcgwire, Sammy, Bonds, and Palmerio, and any other player that CANSECO names!!!!

By McFann

January 8, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

I’m not talking Francoeur down to talk McCann up (much). I’m simply (trying) to point out that RBIs aren’t the best way to prove a players worth.

Oh, I’m gonna support Brian all I want, you cann be assured.

By Serious N8

January 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

McFann

“You don’t know how he’ll be in 5-6 years.”

Judging by where the other highly touted Braves catcher “was” after about 8 seasons in an Atlanta uniform, I’d say it’s a safe guess that unless McCann learns to play 1B (worked well for Piazza, didn’t it), at an old age, he WON’T be in an Atlanta unform, unless it’s coaching, or being a backup catcher.

In fact, one could judge most catchers that have played around 10 years (where McCann will be at after 5 or 6 more years), and suddenly realize that the ones that are STILL catching every day are freaks (Johnny Bench), or on steroids (Ivan Rodriguez….yeah. That’s right. I said it! It had to be said! - Sorry for the Chris Rock moment. LOL!)

So, you go ahead and think McCann will still be a guy that catches around 120-130 games, when he’s 30ish.

While your trolling through EVERY game (believe me, I’d love to direct you on how to “shortcut” the RLOB stat - but not as much as knowing you had to go through EVERY game to figure it out), why don’t look up some catchers that STILL played at least 4-6 days a week behind the plate, and tell me how “productive” they were in their 30’s, while doing so.

Oh yeah. BTW, guys like Tony Pena don’t count. They have to actually be guys that were counted on by their teams to be 4-6 hitters in the lineup. NOT #8 (or #9 in the AL) hitters.

When you DO happen to find that short-list of guys, you’ll more than likely be holding a list of catchers that are in the HOF.

That being said, I think McCann is great, and I’m looking forward to watching him play in Atlanta for the next half decade (or longer), until his play deteriorates (just as I did with Javy).

L8r.

By Braveheart

January 8, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

That’s the N8 I know and love - writing the obituary for McCann’s career in his third year in the majors.

By Hoss

January 8, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

All this bitter cold has me thinking about … Central Florida.

Ol’ DOB don’t know what bitter cold is till he’s looked into his agent’s eyes and said: “I think I’ll take a paycut to help the team.”

By McFann

January 8, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Deteriorates. My, what a lovely word.

Let’s not start this, Neight. Really, I didn’t mean he was gonna be crankin’ out the big power numbers when he’s 30. Learns to play first base? Don’t count on it. What will be will be. We’ll just have to let his career unfold on its own. I ain’t makin’ any predictions, good or bad.

I’m workin’ on those RLOB. So far, out of JF, BM, AJ, and CJ, AJ and and JF are real close with 20 and 19, respectively. McCann’s got 11, and Chipper’s got 13. This is through April 12, so we’ve got a long way to go, people.

TTFN!!

By Serious N8

January 8, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Now, now. On the surface, it may appear I was doing so. But it’s really nothing more than history repeating itself, isn’t it?

I mean seriously, in 1995 who would have thought that Javy (a pretty darn good hitter in his own right), would have fallen off so fast?

Mike Piazza was not only one of the best (if not THE best), hitting catchers of all time. He might have been considered one of the best HITTERS of all time, had he not been a catcher and destroyed his knees.

Catchers knees fall apart. Period.

So, like I said, it might appear that I’m ragging on McCann (which I’m not), but in reality, I just don’t see him (or any young catcher), being as productive as they are early in their careers when they get older.

Look at Joe Mauer. Somebody who by many is considered to be one of the most pure HITTERS to come along in a while (Peter Gammons has a hard-on for the guy), but with his knees already giving him trouble, how long is it before he’s a DH full time?

Really just common sense, when you check out recent (and distant) history. Now if HGH ever becomes legal in baseball get back to me. :-)

Either way, it’s good to know you love me. LOL!

By N8coeur

January 8, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Let me add this to my previous comment/explanation.

If I’m wrong about McCann, and he continues to grow as a hitter, and does NOT have leg troubles later in his career, all the while putting up monster numbers while playing catcher, then we certainly are looking at a HOF catcher, right?

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the ability. I’m a BIG fan of his. But the odds of him still playing catcher FULL TIME in 5-6 years are stacked against him.

He’s too good of a hitter. SOMEBODY will make him a DH before it’s all said and done. Whether he wants to do that, is going to be up to him. He seems “old school” enough that he might rather be a backup catcher in the NL, than play everyday as a DH (and good for him - if he feels that way - I absolutely HATE the DH rule), but it will probably happen at some point.

By N8coeur

January 8, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

McFann

“Let’s not start this, Neight.”

:-) Hasn’t it already started?

By McFann

January 8, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

If McCann ever becomes a DH, I’ll be extremely sad. I can’t stand DHs either. (That’s the reason Mauer could win the batting title. He DH’d 50+ games.)

If he becomes a backup catcher in 6 years (for the Braves : ) ), I’ll be happy, and really look forward to those few games he’d catch.

By Steamboat

January 8, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun, it drives me crazy! Why can’t you acknowledge that Francouer is a very good “clutch hitter?” (yes, I uttered the c-word).

Francouer’s lifetime OPS is .782. His lifetime OPS with RISP is .916. And it’s not due to one lucky year: ‘05: 1.100 (huge, but…); ‘06: .845; ‘07: .917.

I’m sure there’s no sabermetrical explanation for why it is, but it is.

By Braveheart

January 8, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

N8, nah, I was just playing with you. You’ve just been so darn optimistic this offseason, I have missed the old pessimistic/realistic N8. So, it was nice to see you say something pessimistic/realistic for the first time in months.

But you are right about catchers. Almost every single catcher goes into decline at 32 years old and/or has to change positions. Piazza, Yogi, Bench.

Jorge Posada hasn’t but Posada did not catch his whole life. He spent alot of years being an infielder before they moved him to catcher. Probably saved his legs a bit and kept him more productive later in life.

I even think the years Dale Murphy spent playing catcher early in his career may have hastened his demise by a year or two. He didn’t catch long enough for people to cut him a break but catching is catching even if you quit catching at 21 years old. Playing catcher as much as he did early on and then running around the outfield on that hard turf in his home park and on the other hard turf fields around the NL in that era could not have been easy for his body. And then all the west coast trips because of the absurdity of being a team from Atlanta playing in the NL West. Hence, the early dramatic demise.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 8, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

(That’s the reason Mauer could win the batting title. He DH’d 50+ games.)

where did you get that number? in 4 seasons, mauer has DH’d in 49 games. in 2006, he DH’d in 17. he caught in 120 games, which is only 4 less than mccann.

By BossLady

January 8, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

what you wanna bet he is that this guy was the jilted love of Katy or on the losing team to Francoeur?

I have been on DOB’s blog for a year and besides Robert, no one has hated anyone other than Bobby Cox than Francour with him.

I am getting sick on my stomach of this mess and I will wait until DOB takes the blog back.

Good Night and Good Luck.

By doc

January 8, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

dob the clemens/mcnamee theatre is beginnig to remind me of the movie “before the devil knows you are dead”. there are no characters with any redeeming features. we are expected to gasp with the latest about mcnamee only to learn after the yankees canned him even though the police didnt go after him roger than comes along and hires him to continue as his trainer. they just continue to kill each other off in a slow death and each comes abck to the crime scene to show a different angle.

somebody is beginning to reveal some kind of serious obsession here, almost of an “envy” kind of thing regarding frenchy, careful because she who protests too loud. why the comparison and why cant someone just enjoy them both and be pleased that frenchy who could be a wright kind of comic book hero really hasnt gone that route in spite of so many pushing his face out there.

still am in disbelief that wright shows up on the celebrity apprentice, that was pathetic. still makes me LOL

By Metropolitan Man

January 8, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Wow, I thought this guy would be another life long braver but I see he must be a fluke. Giles can find work anywhere but cant keep a job. Hmmmmm, maybe that brave mystic…….

DENVER — Former All-Star infielder Marcus Giles has signed a minor league contract with the Colorado Rockies.

Matsui

Giles, whose .316 batting average in 2003 was the highest season batting average for an Atlanta Braves second baseman, was also invited to spring training, Rockies officials said Tuesday.

Colorado has been without a second baseman since Kaz Matsui signed a three-year, $16.5 million contract with Houston last month.

Giles, 29, was drafted by the Braves in 1996. He holds a .277 career batting average with 76 home runs and 187 doubles.

He played last season with the San Diego Padres and batted 10-for-19 with two doubles in five games at Coors Field. His .526 batting average was the highest at the stadium among players with at least 20 plate appearances in 2007, the Rockies said.

By BossLady

January 8, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB all this music on Cold Cases has been an enlightened music for me.

This is the beginnig of a future.

Years ago when Garo McKee was on the 94Q abd B98.5 we really heard some goooooddddd!!!!! music

By N8coeur

January 8, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Good call on Murphy. Never thought of that. From what I’ve read, he was a pretty horrible catcher. If I’m correct, he had a little Rube Baker (Major League II), in him. Meaning he couldn’t make the throw back to the pitcher, consistently. Kind of odd for a guy that won some GG’s in the OF.

Posada would seem like the exception as well (along with Pudge), but then again, P-Rod’s name has come up in the steroids conversations, and after all…..Posada is a Yankee, right? :-)

As for me being optimistic? If you remember, I was VERY optimistic last off-season as well. Which had everything to do with the Gonzo and Soriano trades. If I recall (like I actually forgot), I was bummed that we didn’t trade Hudson to make room for Glavine. Now we’ll have BOTH.

So, as always, I go into the new year, with hope and big dreams. It’s only that problems arise that seemingly aren’t dealt with (like leaving Andruw in the cleanup spot for about 2 months too long), that I get frustrated, or as my Chiefs HC, Herm Edwards says…….flustrated.

I’m sure come June (or April 10th), I’ll be b!tching about something, if that makes you feel better.

Well, I gotta go. I’m watching Roadhouse 2 on TNT. Didn’t know the show existed. MAN ALIVE, is it Lame! But I started watching, and I can’t stand not finishing a movie, no matter how bad it is.

L8r.

By DAP

January 8, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

daybed wagmoe yes, that was my point. i purposly exagerrated to prove a point. am i the only one that ever does that? i thought it was pretty obvious when thats what i was trying to do.

By N8coeur

January 8, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

btw: Roadhouse 2 is on CMT, not TNT.

Not that anybody cares.

By The Braves are back

January 8, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

I Think for the first time in two years we have something to look foward to again. Good young talent,and experienced pitching will put us back in the post season this year for sure. Brian Mcann without a doubt is a power slugger in the making, chippers not to bad either you Know!

We can talk all day about which one is the best, but Chipper is still THE MAN ALL DAY!! If he stays healthy this year weve got a chance,notice every time he gets hurt it brings the whole team down.

He needs to stay healthy to keep the team motivated this year.

I also look foward to Glavines return. What a plus in the rotation,Maybe Hampton can quit being a pathetic little girl and join them this season, what a waste of money!!They should trade him and strengthen the rotation with a healthy new pitcher, Hell, they could get three with what theyre paying him to sit around!

By uga-brave

January 8, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Got a hunch both francoeur and b’mac will have great seasons. i think they both know a lot is expected from them this season.

kind of hard to believe a teenager has been able to dictate the direction of the blog over the last month or so.

DOB, your 2:28 post made me laugh.

By ncgary

January 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

not a big fan of the rog either , loved the way he pitched, and bonds what a slick hitter , like silk, but what an arse, and if personal feelings count about human character , mario mendoza would get my vote to hof before either of these 2,all that aside, the steroids takers have probably suffered enough from the physical effects inflicted upon themselves,it will basically rot their insides out if enough taken, if the human race survives another 25 years time will tell who actually abused them.

btw where jjs the joutnalist no mispeel, he b funnin

i agree with a few others about patterson, and i would like to see a veteran mr stopgap if a good one were to come available , would just as soon roll the dice with the 4 candidates in system instead of this version of mr stopgap

dob, i realize we arent in the market for another starter and if hampton is 3/4 the version of his old self i agree we probably have enough to , but what do you think it would take to pry blanton from the a’s if management wanted him? triple a and a ball reliever and triple a infielder ??

has anyone seen that prime hunting land the lakota nation seceded away , takes up half of nebraska wyoming and parts of 3 other states, , wander if they will still allow hunting permits there, but go braves what a concept

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

doc, good call on the analogy to Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead.

Speaking of, anyone seen Savages yet? (also starring Philip Seymour Hoffman). I’ve gotta see that and There Will Be Blood….

The Wire’s next-Sunday episode is already on Comcast ondemand, for fans of the greatest show on TV.

By doc

January 9, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

keep looking for blood, not around yet in the big a that i could find. thought it was at the tara.

sadly, the redeeming feature of all clemens theatre is that it keeps folks talking about baseball during the pinnacle time of the nfl. what is it? bad press is better than no press. couldnt have planned it better, right after winter meetings and right before spring training.

By TennesseePaul

January 9, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

This is odd. The off season comes and N8 is in a more optimistic mood than I am. Sheeeesh. Next thing you know KC will be a Pirates believer. Guess the two of us work on sine and cosine wave forms.

By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)

January 9, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this

10Paul , he ain’t the only one who is optimistic.

McCann is staying right where he is at for the foreseeable future , barring some serious leg injury.

I have come to the definite conclusion that Coco Crisp is right at the top of the Braves wish list. The Johan Santana fiasco has the Braves and a lot of other teams in a holding pattern. My gut says Santana will end up a Yankee. But , we shall see.

The Red Sox have one real need , another backup infielder. Alex Cora is the only one they have to cover 3B , SS and 2B. The Braves have a surplus of infielders.

Anybody remember the Edgar Renteria/Andy Marte trade ? Coco Crisp for Brent Lillibridge or a Crisp for Martin Prado and Gregor Blanco trade could happen.

If Crisp doesn’t end up a Twin , he would look good in a Tomahawk jersey. He will make 4.75 million in 2008.

By Wayne in Utah (ever lurking in the blog shadows!)

January 9, 2008 3:26 AM | Link to this

DonC (from earlier post on Corey Patterson) and Coach (from CoCo comments)

While I have also considered other CF options (of which just going with Josh Anderson is one), I like both of these two candidates, much more so than a guy like Mike Cameron.

I went to the stats for the past two years (if you go back over their careers, then Crisp wins hands down), and noticed that these two guys are very similar. Both are excellent defensive outfielders, and the primary difference is that Patterson has more SB’s and more power. Crisp walks twice as much, which equates to about 20 points higher OBP. BA is very close.

So, if we consider them very close, then Patterson doesn’t cost us another player(s) in trade. Also, could signing Patterson somehow help in the eventual signing of Teixeira? (both have Boras as their agent).

I would think that Patterson would command a similar salary to what Crisp is signed for.

While I like Crisp, I don’t like him enough to trade Lillibridge for him. I see Lillibridge having about a 50/50 chance at being either a bust, or another Craig Biggio. Wouldn’t want to trade that chance for a guy with a cereal name!!

:-)

Whaddya think guys?

By nOLIE

January 9, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this

And as everyone knows, the less you strikeout, the more potential you have to get on base.DonC

huh? did you ever notice that many of the players with high OBP strike out a good bit? Dunn right off hand though he is far from the only one. I don’t care much if Patterson lowers his K-rate if the dope still can’t get on base more than 30% of thhe time. I wouldn’t give him 2mil let out 5. Talk to a few Cubs and Oriole fans.

By Desperado Dave

January 9, 2008 4:18 AM | Link to this

DOB, your comment about the UNC/Clemson game makes me laugh. I have heard a million times that someone who played my beloved Heels “had the game won.” If they “had the game won,” they would have won. If I remember correctly, the game was a see saw affair. Clemson went up by seven. UNC made a run to get it into overtime. Ellington hit a three to win it. That was just three of thirty-six he had in the game. That’s the way we roll at UNC. Snatch one away from teams when they think they “have it won.”

By McFann

January 9, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

McCann is staying where he is at for the foreseeable future, barring some serious leg injury

OH!! Don’t even type that!! Let’s not think about that!!

By Bo

January 9, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Happy BithdayRalph Terry 1936.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Steamboat, I never said Francoeur was or wasn’t a good clutch hitter. I’m simply talking about his RBI totals as a measure of his success.

N8,

I’m not trying to discredit Francoeur. I’m simply saying his RBI total doesn’t indicate what he did for the Braves as much as other things, namely his OBP and SLG.

Like you said, if we were judging by RBI total, we would conclude Andruw had a good year because he “did his job” driving in runs. But his job is not to drive in runs but to create runs. The guys around him in the lineup and his playing time are the primary reason he drove in as many runs as he did. But he still got out too often to create as many runs as a decent offensive centerfielder.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

has anybody seen UGA’s 2008 football schedule? wow! the dawgs will really have to earn it next year!

By Salty

January 9, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Isn’t driving in runs part of the ‘run creation’? I’m confused!

By DAP

January 9, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

where did everyone go? did DOB post a new blog?

By Salty

January 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Desperado Dave No need to rub your ‘Heels’ in ‘Scoots and my face. :-)

Maybe…just maybe our Tigers will break the Chapel Hill curse this year. Then again, pigs may fly, too! I’m betting on the pigs, first!

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Salty, yeah, but those guys who got on base deserve at least as much credit as the guy driving them in, if not more.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

I think all critics that go jeff way are only a product of braves failure and braves fans frustration. Nothing else. The guy is a winner and could easily be MVP of whatever you can mention (league, NLCS, WS,etc). He is just maturing and his numbers and performance are in par with what be should expect.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Yeah, N8, I’m not sure how much voters remember that Murphy was a catcher or how much they even care. I was obviously too young, having just been born and all, to remember him playing catcher but from what I have heard, he did suffer from that Rube Baker type thing.

BUt I think voters should take into account that he did an awful lot of catching early in his career (although not really in the majors). Those years catching take a toll. The toll is usually not evident when they are young but later in their careers. I believe, or want to believe, that those years catching took a toll on him.

Looks like he was a catcher in 74, 75, 76, 77 full time. He then spent bits of 78 and 79 catching. Even though he was not catching full time in those seasons, I imagine there was alot of practice time spent crouching. They don’t just magically appear at catcher during a game without significantly more time being spent working on being a catcher in practice.

So, those first 4 years spent being a catcher and then the other 2 years spent working on it had to take their toll on his body and hastened his demise later in his career - especially since he never used PEDs. I don’t know what position he played as a child but if he was playing catcher throughout his formative years that had to take a toll on him as well. This is especially true since he was so tall. You’re seeing now with Joe Mauer that tall catchers have a tougher time with the physical demands of being a catcher than smaller catchers do.

And it is important to remember that his East Coast team played in the NL West, which required alot of travel in the days when travel was not as luxurious as it is these days.

But he did not catch enough for voters to cut him some slack although they probably should. If you take into account the pounding his body endured in his 6 years as a catcher and then combine that physical toll with the physical toll endured as an outfielder on the hard turfs of Atlanta and the other NL parks since hard Astro turfs were all the rage in the NL back in that era, you can see why Dale’s body quit on him at 32.

Alot of voters are willing to cut Andre Dawson slack because of the physical demands he endured playing on the hard turfs which caused him to suffer many injuries in his career. Why not Dale? The Hawk never caught like Dale did before enduring those punishing hard turfs.

Dale had more MVPs than Dawson, had more 100 RBI seasons, more 30 homer seasons, more 100 runs scored seasons, more seasons where his OBP was over .370, had more seasons where his SLG was over .500, had more seasons where he racked up over 300 total bases, had more seasons where he got on base over 250 times, had more seasons where his OPS+ was over 140. Murphy had a higher OBP for his career. His OPS+ for his career is 121 as compared to the Hawk’s 119. Murphy’s runs created per game was 5.7. Dawson’s was 5.4.

But Dawson gets 358 votes and Murphy only gets 75. Whatever. Are those 40 extra homers the difference between not voting for the better or similar player? It’s not like Dawson hit 500 homers. So why are they cutting him slack? Because of the damage done by the hard turf? Well, tell the Hawk he should have tried catching for 6 years and then running around on the hard turf. Maybe if Murphy had never caught, his body would have allowed him to continue to have the quick reflexes he would have needed to remain as productive as he ever was until he was at least 35 years old.

If you vote for Dawson, then you have to vote for Murphy.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Any comments on the movies “im a legend” and the nicolas cage movie (book of secrets or whatever)????????

By Big Dawg

January 9, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Time for new Blog. It takes 14 minutes to get this one to work. 590 bloggers has slowed it down to a crawl.

By Big Dawg

January 9, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Time for new Blog. It takes 14 minutes to get this one to work. 590 bloggers has slowed it down to a crawl.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

I would pick frenchy over any of our OF in recent year any day. He is the complete package, arm, speed, power, hustle, heart, what else can you ask for? Anything just a little bit better than that and you are talking HOF. Grissom, Nixon, Justice, Diaz come to mind as possible competition. AJ, langerhans, butler, washington, Gant, Sanders, etc, are not competition

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Big Dawg, if it takes 14 minutes for the blog to download on your machine, you must be using a circa-1992 computer and dial-up at a Motel 6. I mean, come on, man — fourteen minutes?

I just downloaded it in a few seconds on DSL and my laptop.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

maybe because dawson’s number’s didnt dramatically dropoff like murph’s did.

i agree that murph should be getting more attention than he is. should he get in? well, he’s right on the cusp.

he was best of the best for about 7-8 years.

murphs got about 10 more years on the ballot, and i think he’ll stay on there the whole time. hes got a lot of ground to make up, but i think he’ll get darn close if he doesnt get in.

once the steroid era wears off, i think his numbers will look even better.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

National Treasure: Book of Secrets is a GREAT movie!! Much better than the first.

Uh, Big Dawg, for one thing, you hardly ever post, and for another thing, maybe it takes so long ‘cause you posted twice.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

overlord,

i think sheffield had a couple of really good seasons in right for us.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

January 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Just a bit of info out of Yankee land , Hank Steinbrenner has said they will go five years on a contract extension for Santana. Thats through 2013.

By Salty

January 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Shaun Equal credit, perhaps. More, no way.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Sheffield?

Oh brother.

By Braveheart

January 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

maybe because dawson’s number’s didnt dramatically dropoff like murph’s did.

probably because Dawson did not spend half a decade catching. probably because Dawson only had 6 seasons where he played over 150 games. Murphy played over 150 or more games in a season 12 times. Dawson never played more than 157 games in a season. Murphy did it 6 seasons in a row! Murphy played 153 games or more 10 seasons in a row and would have done it 12 seasons in a row if there was no strike in 1981.

It’s alot easier to have a longer career when you take alot more days off during the season. Just think about Andruw and Chipper. Andruw has played 153 games or more for 11 straight seasons. His body and performance is starting to break down at 30 like Murphy’s did at 32. Chipper played 153 games or more for 8 straight seasons and his body began to break down at age 32 as well. Thankfully, he continues to perform at a high level when he is able to play.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

DOB, Big Dawg has spoken. you’d better get him a new blog before he refreshes again!

i love it how his only post all day was one complaining about the blog loading slow!!

SHEEEEEESH! :-)

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Salty, so you’re saying if there’s a triple then a sac fly, the guy who hit the sac fly deserves as much credit as they guy who hit the triple? I don’t think so. Sac flies are fine and dandy but I think I’d give more weight to the triple.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Braveheart it totally agree with you, but that doesnt change history. im just saying i think thats why murph isnt getting the attention he deserves.

i think the voters will eventually take these thing into consideration, but im still not sure if he will get in.

McFann agree with you on National Treasure. very fun movie. a little more indiana jonesey than the last one, and funnier.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Salty, so you’re saying if there’s a triple then a sac fly, the guy who hit the sac fly deserves as much credit as the guy who hit the triple? I don’t think so. Sac flies are fine and dandy but I think I’d give more weight to the triple.

Maybe measuring run creation is not as nice and neat as some formula that it’s attached to but it’s certainly more than saying a guy who puts himself into scoring position with an extra base hit contributed the same as or less than a guy who drives in a run with a ground out or a sac fly; this is the essence of why RBI is far from the same thing as run creation.

By Thrillhouse44

January 9, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

DAP, I believe you mean his two identical posts.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Braveheart:

Dawson played his entire career on surgery-scarred knees (had his first major knee surgery in high school for a football injury, back when they used to open up the knee and then look for the damage; no ‘scopes back then. He had his first knee replacement surgery two years ago and will have to have the other done eventually).

He played the first 11 seasons of his major league career in Montreal, playing home games first on the (literally) frozen tundra at Jarry Park (mostly dirt in the early and late seasons) and then on the awful artificial turf at Olympic Stadium.

He was an eight-time All-Star, eight-time Gold Glove winner, four-time Silver Slugger award winner, five times finished in the top 10 for the league batting title, eight times finished in the league’s top 10 in slugging, six times finished in the top 10 in OPS, and ten times finished in the top 10 in total bases in his league.

He won one league MVP award (while playing on a last place team), twice was an MVP runner-up, and seven times finished in the top 20 in MVP balloting (two other times he was in top 25).

So come on, man. You don’t have to try to minimize a great player’s accomplishments in order to pump up Murph’s. You can make a strong case for Murph as a Hall of Famer, but Dawson had a better, longer career.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun Sac flies are fine and dandy but I think I’d give more weight to the triple.

why? you dont get any runs for a triple.

both guys are important to that situation. you can get a triple and then get stranded of the other guys dont get you in, or you can flyout and it doesnt mean anything if theres no one to tag up. its kinda like the idea of irreducible complexity. you gotta have both, or its meaningless.

baseball is a TEAM sport.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

DAP, you don’t get any runs for fly outs either, just like you don’t get any runs for just a triple.

Yes, I realize both the triple and the sac fly is important. Question is which should get more credit, not whether they’re both important.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

thrillhouse44 youre right, that was unfair of me. it was two identical posts.

By Random

January 9, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Will Schaffer has some good “Chop Links for 1/8” on Chop-n-Change. Links to Baseball Digest Daily, MLBTR and Ask BA articles concerning the Braves, as well as some good comments of his own.

By StingerSplash

January 9, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Can you get TPTB at 72 Marietta St. to fix that Villareal headline under the Braves heading on the sports front web page, because it’s been wrong since it’s been up and it’s, well, it’s distressing. “Astros sign from Braves pitcher Villareal.” Makes it sound like he gave them a sign, instead of signing with them.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

DOB,

i agree with your assesment on the hawk. along with all the other accolades he was the most feared hitter in the n.l. during that period. no one took a rip at the ball like the hawk. the guy could run, had a great glove, and was one of the top five players of his era.

the guy belongs in the hall.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun I realize both the triple and the sac fly is important. Question is which should get more credit,

more credit?? shaun they both get their own type of credit. the that got the hit get 3 bases, credit on his average, slugging, OBP, a run, and the satisfaction of helping his team.

the guy who flew out gets and RBI, doesnt get charged with an AB, and gets the satisfaction of helping team!

yeah, i know you dont get a run for a flyout. that was my point. there is no need to separate the two. each guy gets credit for what he does. you cant have one without the other shaun, which makes them both very important, thus the TEAMWORK concept!

this is kinda silly.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Sorry but i dont think Sheffield qualifies, he had 2 good years but he just played 2 years for us. Same for JD Drew. Besides, Sheffield is a drug user and a club house bug.

Thanks for the comments on the movie.

Anybody seen “im a legend”????

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Stinger, your request has been forwarded. I agree with you.

By Bill Engvall

January 9, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Oscar, you agreed to a contract with the Astros? Here’s Your Sign.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Triples vs. SF:

Depends in the context of each game. But if it not related to the winning run of a game or something close to it……. a would same triple is more important. Once again it all depends, because if you have a player that you have 90% of certainty he will get the SF every time you ask him too, that player is a star. He is much needed on any team, specially bench players. In that case, SF hitter could have more impact than a 3b hitting player.

By nOLIE

January 9, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I see that Clemens camp brought up the old rape investigation around McNamee in St Pete where they didn’t prosecute but the local cops says McN lied about everything. Ol’ Raj still throws high heat huh? Ol’ Mikey is lucky the Raj didn’t spike the jagged end of that bat right through his chest.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

DAP, actually, I don’t see that it’s silly. It’s a question of what’s more valuable, a guy who hits fly balls or a guy who gets extra-base hits. I think you would agree that an RBI single is more helpful to a team than an RBI ground out or fly out; the RBI single is more likely to lead to more runs, so shouldn’t that get more praise than a sac-fly RBI or an RBI ground out? All RBI aren’t created equal, even if we assume that the batter should get most of the credit for RBI (which I’m not sure he should).

By DAP

January 9, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Overlord Triples vs. SF

why are we doing this? the two depend on each other to have any significance!! ya’ll are driving me crazy.

i am legend is really good. i enjoyed it alot. will smith is awesome in it.

By uga-brave

January 9, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

overlord,

what does being a clubhouse bug have to do with performance on the field. sheffield had one of the greatest offensive seasons ever by a braves rightfielder.

By OrlandoFan

January 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Andre Dawson was a quality player and from what I know a quality human being playing for a while on a team that had some, shall we say, characters (in Montreal). His record is solid, but I’m not convinced its Hall caliber. I don’t really see anyone on the ballot this year who I think is worthy of induction. Murph was outstanding for a few years, but it was a few years. He started slow and faded quickly. Great player in the ’80s. Jim Rice doesn’t have the numbers, in my view. Blyleven is very close, but he can’t get over the disadvantage of having played so many years and still not gotten to 300. But I would rank him the most worth of those four. Wouldn’t it be cool if somehow Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all went in the same year. It’s not an outrageous thought? All it takes is for them to retire at the same time and for the voters to see the merit of including Smoltz in his first year.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Just saw that Marcus Giles signed a minor league contract with the Rockies….

By David-ATL14

January 9, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

* BOOG UPDATE*

Per Mets blog the new front runner for the Mets radio job replacing Tom McCarthy is now Wayne Hagin.

I don’t know how Boog himself views that nugget but I as a hardcore braves fan, hope he remains in his present capacity as the Voice of the Braves.

He does solid work.

By StingerSplash

January 9, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The Splash abides.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun It’s a question of what’s more valuable, a guy who hits fly balls or a guy who gets extra-base hits.

no, shaun, that wasnt the question. here’s the premise of your discussion.

if there’s a triple then a sac fly, the guy who hit the sac fly deserves as much credit as the guy who hit the triple? I don’t think so. Sac flies are fine and dandy but I think I’d give more weight to the triple.

you said if there is a triple and a sac fly IN SUCCESSION than the triple hitter should get more credit than the guy who got him in. thats silly, because in that situation, they depend on one another to make any difference in the game at all.

if you say “weve got two players, one hits alot of extra base hits, one flies out all the time, who is more valuable?” thats a totally different question.

its a team sport.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

UGA ill accept your point, Sheffield had great seasons with us. No argument there, but i never said he didnt. I was thinking loud.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

orlandofan Wouldn’t it be cool if somehow Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all went in the same year.

that would be sweet, but i dont think it will happen because smoltz will not retire when the other two will. hes a few years younger, and will pitch for at least the next threee seasons. (unless of course he gets hurt bad) i dont really see maddux and glavine doing that. you never know, though.

and i think smoltz will definitely get in on his first try. i think he will have at least 240 wins, 3200 K’s, and hopefully a couple of more postseason wins by the time he retires.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

DAP, I guess we are doing this because the point is you shouldn’t build an offense around guys who have a “knack for hitting sac flies.” You build an offense around guys who have a knack for getting on and hitting the ball hard and far.

I think the confusion comes in when some people talk in terms of “RBI-guys.” But I would argue there are no more RBI guys as there are sac fly guys. It’s just silly to look at players in those terms. It’s more accurate and appropriate to say a guy hits the ball hard and far and gets on base often; that’s what good offensive baseball is.

By Romal Gal

January 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

DAP, you liked I am Legend? I’m thinking about going to see it with my mom…or would I be better off seeing National Treasure with her? Let’s just say she is sensitive.

By OrlandoFan

January 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

What in the world happened to Giles? It’s like someone came into his soul and stole his grit and his talent. He looked like a really clutch player, the Braves MVP, some said, a few years ago. And now he can’t get a job during what should be the prime of his career? Doesn’t make sense. Feels like Steve Blass or something.

By Overlord

January 9, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

DAP i was just giving my opinion, i didnt started that subject. Take a deep breath.

By ncscoots

January 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Salty, Desperado Dave can, well, bite me, LOL. That’s a typical Heels fan; you have to live among ‘em to understand it. :-)

By DAP

January 9, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Romal Gal if your mom is sensitive, youd be better off with national treasure. both are very suspenseful, but i am legend is just down right sad in alot of places, national treasure isnt. i am legend will also make you jump.

shaun ok.

By Salty

January 9, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

DAP I never should have brought it up. It’s like sticking my hand in the mouth of damn snapping turtle…it’s not gonna let go. Shaun…it’s a team game…you build a team. How you go about evaluating building a team is your biz. Personally, not the route I choose…takes the fun out of the game, for me.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

DAP, a triple and a sac fly in succession, I’d still say the triple should get more weight than the sac fly. Triple is more difficult and more work and isn’t costing the team an out. Yes, the sac fly drove in the run and I’m not saying we should ignore it. But the triple should be weighed more heavily in terms of helping the team score; which is why RBI is far from an ideal measure of run creation.

By Salty

January 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Scoots I hear you…and I’ve lived around plenty. Plenty of folks go a lifetime hoping their team will win the big one; when the Tigers won the NC in football, I could live if another title was never won. Now, my list is pretty short, but ‘pigs flying’ and a win in the Dean-Dome are still on it! At least we know how UVA football fans felt for years!

By Romal Gal

January 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

DAP, I mean her ears are sensitive as are her eyes. Bad language and gory scenes.

But National Treasure is probably the safer bet.

By Romal Gal

January 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

DAP, I mean her ears are sensitive as are her eyes. Bad language and gory scenes.

But National Treasure is probably the safer bet. Thanks.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Shuan DAP, a triple and a sac fly in succession, I’d still say the triple should get more weight than the sac fly.

and youd be the worst manager or GM ever because your team would hit a bunch of triples but never score a run. you never seem to be able to look at the whole package.

By sramey44

January 9, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

I know this is way off topic, but does anyone know when single game tickets go on sale???

Living in South Carolina means no season tix for me, but none the less, I am looking forward to coming down for a few weekends. Last year I waited till after the season had begun and ended up having to search for tix on stubhub. I am hoping to get in this year when they first go on sale. Thanks

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

DAP, actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Shaun building your team with guys who hit it far and hard, and assigning more value to a triple than a sac fly like we were talking about are two different things. you are jumping around trying to avoid acknowledging that you were wrong and werent making sense. just stop.

By Random

January 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

DAP???????

Surely you jest? A team made up of players who hit nothing but triples is a losing proposition?!?

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

DAP, let me make myself clear: In a situation where a triple was followed by a sac fly, I would say the guy who hit the triple should get more credit.

I also would build my team around guys who get on base as much as possible and who hit the ball hard and far as often as possible.

Yes, they are two different things.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

MLB.com says a few teams are in the running for bedard, with the mariner’s being the front runner. any idea what they are offering? id be interested to know what its going to take.

By Lee in S. GA

January 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Orlando Fan

The only thing that surprises me about both Giles brothers is that neither was mention in the Mitchell report.

By DAP

January 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

random context, bud. shaun wants to celebrate guys that get the triples, but marginalizes the guys the get them in to score. i was saying if your team always hits triples, but no one gets them in, you cant win.

shaun ok. your first paragraph still disagree with citing the importance of TEAMWORK, the second paragraph, i would never argue with. thanx for clarifying.

By Efrim

January 9, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

DAP

Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Brandon Morrow, George Sherrill and Carlos Triunfel are the guys being talked about. Not all five…but three of them with Adam Jones being a must for the O’s.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

The guy who hit the triple should get more credit than the guy who hit the sac-fly, because without the triple, that fly would have been an unproductive out.

Yes, and/or duuuuhhh.

Sorry…and/or my bad.

By McFann

January 9, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Note to DAP

If everybody on a team hits triples all the time, somebody is bound to score sometime.

Sheesh.

By David O'Brien

January 9, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG HAS BEEN POSTED….

By TennesseePaul

January 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

DAP, actually, I’d build my team around guys that get on and hit the ball far and hard…and not “RBI guys.” The whole package is not a bunch of RBI guys because then you end up with guys like the 2007 Andruw and the 1993 Ruben Sierra.

Most times in life you don’t get the total package. Can you fill out all 9 positions with guys who do both, hit the ball hard and far and get on base a lot? Probably not. But you could go with a good mix of guys who do both or one or the other (which is what I believe most teams attempt to do, putting the high OBP guys at the top of the order followed by guys who hit hard and far to drive them in). In the case of AJ, and most “RBI guys”, I think you’ll find they hit the ball hard and far. I can’t think of any light hitting players who consistantly tally up 90+ RBI seasons.
And bringing up single season results as a point seems to be a bit odd for you Payne. You love to highlight how single season results change when it suits the arguement, but here you point to 2007 AJ as a standard and norm of AJ. Yet in the past you’ve said you’d rather have AJ than a whole list of guys others have suggested.

By TennesseePaul

January 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

If everybody on a team hits triples all the time, somebody is bound to score sometime.

This is true. But nobody would win. The game has to end for a victor to be declared and it has to at least get to the 5th before the game can be called. If no batter ever makes an out the game never exits the first inning and hence you have no winner.

By Shaun

January 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

DAP, how is it trivializing teamwork to say a triple should be weighed more in terms of run creation than a sac fly following that triple?

By Francoeur Fan-core

January 9, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Apparently Carlos Delgado still thinks that the Mets were the team to beat in the NL East last year. From ESPN

By Random

January 9, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Triples vs. SF:

Y’all’re arguing apples and oranges.

A triple may or may not produce a run (or runs), whereas by definition a sac fly does produce a run. If you normalize the context of your argument (stipulating a man on third), then it’s the no-brainer that Shaun makes it out to be — of course the triple is better. If you make your argument context-free (independent of whether there are base-runners), the “sac fly” is just a fly out which may or may not bring home a run (just as a triple may or may not bring home a run), and it’s still a no-brainer, since the triple does not yield an out and leaves a man on base. Sheeeeeeesh. (Plus, a triple is more than three times as likely to produce a run than a fly out.)

(Though I’ve got to disagree with you, Shaun, when you say It’s a question of what’s more valuable, a guy who hits fly balls or a guy who gets extra-base hits — after all, most triples are fly balls that were simply not caught.)

Finally, if you go back to the initial premise as DAP does (if there’s a triple then a sac fly … *), even in this limited and specific context (stipulating bases empty, and sequencing the triple before the sac fly), it’s a no-brainer, since the triple is the *necessary and sufficient precursor of the sac fly. (Sac fly is possible if and only if there’s a man on third.)

By **Test**

January 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Test

By [TEST](http://www.ajc.com)

January 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

TEST