AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > December > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBig Three untainted, still plugging away
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Though the timing was purely coincidental, Baseball America couldn’t have picked a more appropriate winter to present a lifetime achievement award to Atlanta’s longtime Big Three: Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz.
With the latter part of Roger Clemens’ storied career now under suspicion due to Mitchell Report allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs, the Rocket could soon — if it’s not already happened — be replaced by Maddux as the general consensus pick for best pitcher of the past 25 years.
Maddux, 41, needs only eight wins to pass Clemens’ 354. And as Peter Gammons noted last week, since Maddux made his big league debut in 1986 he actually has notched 39 more wins than Clemens in that period. Since Glavine debuted the following summer, the once-and-again Braves lefty has 303 wins to Clemens’ 302.
By most measures, including wins and durability — not to mention squeezing every ounce possible out of one’s talent — Glavine isn’t far behind Maddux.
And then there is Smoltz, the bearded Braves icon, and a different case than Maddux and Glavine in that he lost out on perhaps 50 wins during three-plus seasons as an elite closer, a role he first took out of necessity (elbow problems) and then remained in at the request of his team.
Different from the pitching-savant genius and creativity of Maddux and craftiness of Glavine, Smoltz was a pure power pitcher most of his career, which he believes gave him the short shrift when some of us observers judged the merits of the pitchers.
While that’s open for debate — many baseball writers I know consider Smoltz’s career to be on a par with Glavine’s, or at least close to it, because of Smoltz’s unique combination of wins, saves and postseason excellence — what’s almost certain is that his max-effort pitching caused Smoltz to break down a few times while his buddies Maddux and Glavine have made start after start, year after year after year.
(By the way, how ‘bout the fact that all three of them are over 40 and still being very much counted on in the rotations of playoff-hopeful teams, Maddux with San Diego and the other two with the Braves? Pretty remarkable, really.)
Smoltz has overcome four elbow surgeries and made numerous adjustments both in-season (who can forget his throwing sidearm, or resorting to knuckleballs because of throbbing elbow pain?) and between seasons, adjustments he believed he needed to make to remain a legitimate ace. Whatever he’s done, it’s worked. The man knows his body, abilities and limits about as well as any athlete I’ve ever been around.
How many of us seriously believed that Smoltz would still be a No. 1-caliber pitcher at this stage? How many really believed that his elbow would hold up after he successfully lobbied for the Braves to let him return to his beloved starting role before the 2005 season? (My own hand is not raised.)
Yet, here he is. With only one DL stint and no surgeries since he moved back to the rotation (although plenty of aches and pains, some that you know about and others he’s kept to himself and team trainers).
It’s been a difficult couple of years for Smoltz, both on the field and off it (a divorce from wife Dyan after 16 years of marriage and four children). Between nagging injuries and a staggering lack of run support, he nevertheless compiled a 30-17 record and 3.31 ERA in 437-2/3 innings during the 2006-07 seasons, with 408 strikeouts and 102 walks in that span.
Smoltz is a fiend for statistics, so he knows how many more wins he could’ve had if the Braves had scored just two runs in this game, or one more run in that game, or if the bullpen had held a lead in this one. Doesn’t complain about it, but he knows.
Yes, a lot of pitchers could say the same thing, but statistically there’s no denying Smoltz had tougher luck than most pitchers during 2006-07.
Which brings me to my point, which is tied to the recent arrival of the Bill James Handbook 2008, and further evidence of Smoltz’s ongoing performance (yes, a rambling intro and a point you had to find, not the way they teach it in j-school, but it’s a blog and I’m working quickly here).
I was thumbing through the pages of the new handbook when I got to a section I always enjoy, where James projects hitting and pitching statistics for virtually every player in the majors for the upcoming season.
It’s done, I assume, by running reams of recent statistics for each player through a computer program, which takes into account factors including run support and spits out the results each player could be expected to produce. (I’m assuming this; it probably says clearly how it’s done in the intro to the section, which I skipped.)
Folks, I had to go over the wins column in the individual pitching projections twice to make sure I wasn’t missing someone, and I’ll probably go over it twice more when I get home tonight to check twice more (I’m on a one-day trip to Arizona, in the air as I type this, and will file it at the Phoenix airport).
The reason I checked and double-checked? Because the projected wins total for Smoltz: 17. No other pitcher in the majors was projected to win more than 16. Not Johan Santana, Jake Peavy, Brandon Webb or Dan Haren. No one but The Beard. All others projected to win 16 or fewer (hey, I’m just the messenger).
Again, whether you put much stock in the projections or not (more are usually fairly accurate than not), I think that 17-win projection says plenty for how good/steady Smoltz has been in recent years, that you could pump his stats into a computer program that would tell you Smoltz should win more games in 2008 than any other pitcher in the majors, if he just keeps doing what he’s been doing.
Do I necessarily believe it? No, because the computer hasn’t talked to Smoltz recently, and hasn’t heard him admit that he’s not the same beast he was. He’s slowing down a bit, and sounds as if he’s preparing us for the possibility of him missing a start or two in 2008.
Nevertheless, it’s worth noting what the computer projection says, because it’s a reflection of recent performance by the old man who keeps defying skeptics, those who say each year, “He’s going to break down sooner or later, he can’t keep doing this forever….”
He was 30-17 with a 3.31 ERA in 437-2/3 innings the past two years, with 50 quality starts in 67 games. Yes, fifty quality starts (six innings or more, three earned runs or fewer). At his age, a decade or more older than most aces.
Santana was 34-19 with a 3.04 ERA in 452-2/3 innings over the past two seasons, and 45 quality starts in 67 games.
Peavy? He was 30-20 with a 3.28 ERA in 425-2/3 innings, with 50 quality starts in 66 games. Haren? He was 29-22 with a 3.59 ERA in 445-2/3 innings.
Brandon Webb was 34-18 with a 3.06 ERA in 471-1/3 innings. He’s the innings-eating horse Smoltz used to be, or getting there.
Peavy, Haren and Webb are the young lions, just coming into their primes. Smoltz is winding down a great career, one that will almost certainly land him in the Hall of Fame along with certainties Maddux and Glavine.
But with a little help from the back of the rotation, and a little more run support, and a little more fun pitching and playing golf with his buddy Glavine, who knows? Smoltz has an option for 2009 that vests with 200 innings, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him last until 2010, perhaps longer.
But for now, Smoltz has at least one expert projecting he’ll win 17 games at age 41. And if we’ve learned anything about Smoltz through the years, it’s to never underestimate him. So I’m not.
After all, he did record a hole-in-one on a course in Las Vegas this winter. On a hole that Smoltz claims not even his friend Tiger Woods has aced.
And he seems more optimistic than he’s been the past couple of winters about the Braves and their pitching staff (though he and most Braves would feel a lot better about the franchise’s future if they’d sign Mark Teixeira and Jeff Francoeur to contract extensions).
In recent seasons Smoltz has added pitches to his repertoire, resigned himself to throwing at less than max-effort on most pitches, and been honest with himself enough to concede he could no longer hoist the team on his shoulders and will it to win by staying on the mound eight or nine innings through soreness.
That’s a reason Smoltz is optimistic about the tweaked Braves roster, as he eases into his offseason throwing program with the countdown under 50 days until pitchers and catchers report to spring training. More so than he was last year.
That’s because last year the Braves went to spring training with six starting pitchers. They lost Mike Hampton (again) before he’d even thrown a Grapefruit League pitch. Then they lost spring sensation Lance Cormier before Opening Day.
They signed Mark Redman, literally out of his Oklahoma basement, where the out-of-work Redman was throwing in an underground pitching tunnel to stay sharp until some team called in the spring. He was not sharp. To say the least.
Redman was dumped early in a season that saw the Braves scramble to fill out their rotation, making moves and subbing out pitchers almost on a weekly basis.
By midseason the bullpen was haggard, Chuck James’ elbow was barking, and journeyman Buddy Carlyle was pretty the third-best starter behind co-aces Tim Hudson and Smoltz, representing a precipitous drop in quality from No. 2 to No. 3 for a team that would’ve stood a good chance of making the playoffs if it had had someone, anyone, to provide quality starts behind the top two veterans.
Now the Braves have Glavine back in the fold, a 303-game winner expected not to be an ace, but a very good No. 3 starter.
And they should have several options to choose from to fill out the last two spots in the rotation, including James, Hampton (if healthy), promising rookies Jair Jurrjens (acquired from Detroit in the Edgar Renteria trade and lefty Jo-Jo Reyes, plus Jeff Bennett and Carlyle.
Smoltz likes the depth and particularly the prospects of having someone such as Bennett, a former Milwaukee reliever who pitched well in September starts, to fill what Smoltz envisions as a “sixth starter” role as long reliever/spot starter.
It was Smoltz who confided after an end-of-season game at Philadelphia that he hoped the Braves would consider going with, in effect, a six-man rotation in 2008 in order to permit those who might need to skip a start to do so and preserve their health and energy.
“I’m best suited for the stretch run,” Smoltz said in Nashville during the Winter Meetings, where he went to accept the Baseball America lifetime achievement award.
The old lion is still one of the elite starting pitchers in the National League, but Smoltz wants to be at his best in September and October, and knows he can’t be, at his age, if he has to go hard all season without getting a break if he needs one.
He concedes he can’t pitch 220-230 innings like he used to, or expect to churn out quality starts even if he’s got pain in his shoulder or elbow or wherever.
“If we have for the first time in a long time, the luxury of having a long man …. That is something that’s beneficial, to be able to take a start off. I’m realizing that now. Me and Hampton — Hampton more than anybody, we need to protect.”
Smoltz seems to have more confidence in Hampton giving the Braves something — maybe just 15-20 starts, but good starts — than most others seem to have in Hampton at this point. Many have written off the veteran lefty after Hampton missed the past two seasons for elbow surgeries, then was hurt again (hamstring) in the first inning of his first start this winter in Mexico.
But it’s the other depth, particularly the return of Glavine, that makes Smoltz feel better about this Atlanta rotation’s chances of returning to some semblance of the proud Braves starting pitching of years past, and to be able to take some pressure off a promising bullpen unfairly maligned last season.
“Not to oversell the Glavine addition, but what he gives you is a solid 3-4-5,” he said. “And he gives you a lot of knowledge and advice that I can’t really give those [young lefties]. If they’re smart, they’ll use him and be like a sponge.”
“And I hope it brings about a little more of a ‘unit’ with the rotation. We had something special [with the former Braves rotations]. It makes the days go by faster.”
GILES UPDATE: The venerable Hall-of-Fame scribe from Denver, cowboy Tracy Ringolsby, reports that the Rockies are expected to resume discussions about second baseman Marcus Giles after the holidays. Giles, 29, was a bust with San Diego last season, hitting .229 with four homers and 39 RBI in 119 games and losing his starting job along the way. They non-tendered him this winter, just as the Braves had done a year before. Right now, the Rockies have Jayson Nix and a few others to compete for the job previously held by Kaz Matsui. They’ve also contacted Todd Walker.
OK, we’re landing in Phoenix. And I need to file this soon as I get in the airport.
By the way this song’s not a reference to anyone mentioned in this blog, believe me. Just a great song by a terrific songwriter, a tune I’d already picked out. One a lot of us can surely relate to.
“A MAN IN NEED” by Richard Thompson
I packed my rags, went down the hill
Left my dependents a-lying still
Just as the dawn was rising up
I was making good speed
I left a letter lying on the bed
From a man in need, it read
You know it’s so hard, It’s so hard to find
Well, well, well. Who’s going to cure the heart of a man in need?
All of my friends don’t comprehend me
Their kind of style it just offends me
I want to take ‘em, I want to shake ‘em
‘Till they pay me some heed
Oh, you’ve got to ride in one direction
Until you find the right connection
You know it’s so hard, so, so, so, so
Well, well. Who’s going to cure the heart of a man in need?
Who’s going to give you real happiness?
Who’s going to give you contentedness?
Who’s going to lead you? Who’s going to feed you?
And cut you free?
Well I’ve sailed every ship in the sea
But I travelled this world in misery
You know it’s so hard, so hard, so hard
Well, well. Who’s going to cure the heart of a man in need?
Well who’s going to shoe your feet?
Ah who’s going to pay your rent?
And who’s going to stand by you?
Well, well, well, well
Who’s going to cure the heart of a man in need?
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Of a man in need
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Comments
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 28, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
first??
By McFann
December 28, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Yeah!! A new blog!!
By True Braves Fan
December 28, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
DOB: Excellent Blog.
By DonCoburleone
December 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
DOB at first thought I would agree with you that Maddux should now be considered the greatest pitcher in the past 25 years, but is he really? I mean, undoubtedly if you look at the overall career resume Greg Maddux is without question the best pitcher in the game over the past 25 seasons; but in terms of sheer dominance, I would put him behind Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson (of course assuming they are both clean), wouldn’t you?
By Shaun
December 28, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
Good point. I think the Clemens PED issues cements Maddux’s legacy, if nothing else. Before it was pretty clear that Clemens had the edge as best pitcher since 1950. With the PED allegations, now we may have to say Maddux may be the best.
By David O'Brien
December 28, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
DonC, no I would not. Reason being this: Pedro and Randy both had five-year (or so) stretches where they were more dominant, perhaps, than Maddux in any five-year stretch of his career. However, longevity has to be a part of any equation when determining the greatest pitcher, in my opinion.
Otherwise, you’d have to say Sandy Koufax was the greatest pitcher of the last 50 years and leave it at that. And I don’t think that’s the case.
Pedro, you can make an argument for. Not Randy, though. Not compared to Maddux.
And to me, Clemens is the only pitcher whose career numbers (and thus, career) are even comparable to those of Maddux in the past few decades.
By ObiWanKobe
December 28, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About The Braves Payroll, but Were Afraid to Ask
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/atlanta-braves_15.html
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 28, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
“With the latter part of Roger Clemens’ storied career now under suspicion…”
good choice of words there, seeing as how “storied” and “steroid” are anagrams of each other!
By bruce
December 28, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
Maybe Smoltz will skip a few of the starts in which he would get poor run-support. just kidding…
By bruce
December 28, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
I would say Maddux dominated batters by pitching as a craft, setting up pitches, making batters do what he wanted them to do… genius pitching while Clemens overpowered or intimidated. Both are great, but Maddux is genius, a true craftsman.
By Tomahawkin
December 28, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Haven’t been on here in a grip…Hey D.O.B. Do you see the Braves signing another spot bench player who can play a backup role in lest, and center…?
And I saw your top ten list for the best songs/albums of 2007, well D.O.B. Tommy’s got a list for ya, of the the three worst artists/songs of 2007 that I can’t stand and here goes…
1) Soulja Boy/Crank That, Gawd I’m tired of hearing that song…Talk about “Romper Room Rap”…
2) Cupid Shuffle, Makes me wanna shot myself, That damn song is horrible…I wonder how that crap gets made
3) Anything Fergie, That pop tart crap belongs in the dumpster
By McFann
December 28, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, (I can’t believe I have to do this), as much as “I am a bit tired of going around the world in 80 days with ya,” I must say that if you are going to compare players’ stats, you should compare stats that are of the same kind. See, you compared Francoeur’s overall stats to AJ’s RISP stats. It would have made more sense, IMHO, to use those numbers of Francoeur’s, which were:
.389 OBP, .500 SLG, and .917 OBP (with RISP)
See? I cann read about the other players if I want to. I’m not crazy about Francoeur, but anybody deserves a fighting chance when said that the AJ of 2007 was better than the player in question.
Speaking of Francoeur, the Braves could’ve given him a contract like McCann’s, but Jeff and his agent never came up anything if I remember correctly.
By Tomahawkin
December 28, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this
Oh yea great blog D.O.B., I do like the idea of the 6-man rotation, especially since we have 2 starters that are in their early forties, gawd I’m ready 4 pitchers and catchers to report…
By McFann
December 28, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
Yep. Yep. I just went back and looked. Francoeur was offered a contract at the beginning of March, too, but his agent wanted something twice as much. (Article is from 3/22/07. Entitled “McCann’s the Man for the Braves”. Ain’t it the truth?)
By nfieldr
December 28, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
Off topic, but needs to be said….
Rest in peace, Jim Beauchamp… you will be sorely missed by those in the Braves organization as well as many others that you touched.
By DonCoburleone
December 28, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
Well, I agree with that DOB. When looking at their entire careers, no doubt Maddux is the greatest pitcher in the last 25 (or 50?) years.
But I am talking about the absolute prime of their careers, on their best day in their best season, I would put Pedro 1, Randy 2, and Maddux 3… I compare it to like looking at Shaquille O’Neal vs. Bill Russell - No doubt that when you look at their respective careers Russell is the superior player. But look at them on their best day in their prime, and I would say Shaq was the more dominating (difference-making) force…
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 28, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
I still remember how Smoltz’ shoulder looked following his last playoff game with Huston three years ago. It takes a real man to pitch through something like that.
Yes, Roger had more speed with his fastball but when you are doctoring the fuel you tend to suffer from Michael Waltrip syndrome. I wonder if the Rocket’s kids ask him, “Daddy, why did you have to cheat?”
There have been pitchers who have been more overpowering than Maddux but I don’t think any pitcher in the past 25 years has out pitched him.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 28, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this
Yep , the sixth man/spot starter rotation does make sense. Considering that the Braves used a total of ten starters in 2007 and twelve in 2006 , the quality of the rotation should be less of an issue when taking into consideration the double digit number of starters used in 06-07.
Greg Maddux has a realistic chance at 500 wins. No really , he does. I see no reason why he can’t pitch until the age of 45. He would only need to average 13 wins over the course of the next four seasons.
By Andy
December 28, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
sick and tired…stop with the political blurbs already…
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 28, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
Woops , I meant 400 wins for Maddux.
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone Pedro and Maddux both had a 7 year run of dominance. Pedro’s was from the age of 25 until the age of 31 from 1997 until 2003. Maddux had his run from the age of 26 until 32 from 1992 until 1998. Randy’s is a little more complicated. You have to skip 1996, 1998, and 2003. But anyways, during their respective 7 year dominant runs:
Maddux, 127 wins; Pedro, 118 wins; Randy, 135 wins
Maddux, 56 complete games; Pedro, 34 complete games, Randy: 46 complete games
Maddux, 19 shutouts; Pedro, 11 shutouts, Randy:18 shutouts
Maddux, 226 games started; Pedro, 201 games started; Randy, 235 games started
Maddux, 1675 innings; Pedro, 1408 innings; Randy 1703 innings
Maddux, 7.4 innings per start; Pedro, 7 innings per start; Randy, 7.25 innings per start
Maddux, 0.97 WHIP; Pedro, 0.94 WHIP; Randy, 1.09 WHIP
Maddux, 2.15 ERA; Pedro, 2.20 ERA; Randy, 2.48 ERA
Maddux, .706 win %; Pedro, .766 win %; Randy, .726 win %
Maddux, 6.9 K/9; Pedro, 11.3 K/9; Randy, 12 K/9
By Johnny P
December 28, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
How much is a billion?
SickTired Answer: a billion microseconds ago your mind went mushy after drinking spoiled kool-ade and stump for a shlepp.
A billion nanoseconds ago you were kindly asked to stop ambushing this blog with your political tripe.
Try walking upright and quit dragging those knuckles.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 28, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this
If pitching were to be compared to painting , Greg Maddux would be the Michelangelo of the mound.
By stynes
December 28, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
I don’t even know that Maddux wasn’t more dominant than Pedro and RJ in their best years. Look up some of Maddux’s numbers from the mid-90s and see if I’m not correct. From 1992-1998 Maddux posted the following ERAs: 2.18, 2.36, 1.56, 1.63, 2.72, 2.20, and 2.22. Are you kidding me? This wasn’t during the dead ball era, this is in the midst of when people like Brady Anderson were hitting 50 HRs in a season.
To me, ERA is probably the best indication of how good a pitcher is in terms of overall performance. Pedro’s best run was 1997-2003: 1.90, 2.89, 2.07, 1.74, 2.39 (18 starts), 2.26, and 2.22. Pedro was more dominant in terms of Ks but Maddux even had more wins (127 to 118).
RJ never had the type of uninterrupted streak that Maddux and Pedro enjoyed. His best stretch was from 1995-2004 when he posted the following ERAs: 2.48, 3.67 (8 starts), 2.28, 3.28, 2.48, 2.64, 2.49, 2.32, 4.26 (18 starts), and 2.60. That was interrupted by 2 shortened seasons and 3 seasons where with an ERA 3.28 or above including one at 4.26. Maddux’s highest ERA during his best stretch: 2.72. The best 7 year stretch from a W standpoint for RJ was 97-2003 where he had 126 Ws to Maddux’s 127 of Maddux’s best stretch. Also to note, that included 3 20+ W seasons including a whopping 24 in 2002, arguably his best year.
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
bill russell did face shaq back in his day. he was called wilt chamberlain back in the day. bill russell owned wilt chamberlain. russell was the difference maker. russell would have outhearted and outwilled shaq in the present day as well. shaq only has 4 rings to show for his 15 years of dominance. too many days and seasons wasted being a moody funny fatso who turned it on and off when he wanted to. shaq would have many more rings if he had played and prepared like a warrior day in, day out, season in, season out.
By DonCoburleone
December 28, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Nice info Braveheart, thanks man (If you could look up one more stat, I’d be curious to see their respective K/BB ratio during those seasons)… Do you see my point about these three guys though? I mean, the numbers are so similar all the way across the board except for strikeouts, which IMO is what makes a great pitcher truly dominant - truly unhittable.
Greatness over the course of a career is a different argument than the argument of the best pitcher ever on their best day, know what I mean?
By Tomahawkin
December 28, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this
Does anyone here wish that we should have gone hard after Mark Prior? He would be a risk as a number 5 but if we use a six man rotation we might’ve been able to get 15 wins out of him if we’re lucky, plus he would be playing in a pitchers park…
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this
DonC
Maddux, K/BB= 4.78; Randy, K/BB = 4.95; Pedro, K/BB = 5.59.
By DAP
December 28, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this
John “the beard” Smoltz is definetly one of the best of our time and an absolutly amazing athlete.
DOB thanx for the new blog.
here are a few of my late posts on the last blog.
uga-brave if you use that logic davies, redman, and reyes never should of started a game.
no, if you use my logic, after davies, redman, and reyes continued to fail miserably, the braves would have given some other pitchers a chance to help the team in the fifth spot, which is exactly what happened. the only problem was the other pitchers werent much better in most cases.
this wasnt the case in the lineup. we had a whole team full of better hitter than andruw last season.
pretty easy looking back and saying this is what should of been done.
youre right. its been as easy for me to say it today as it was for me to say it all through may, june and july. and then when tex got here, i kept saying it because andruw was still batting higher in the order than he should have.
Braveheart just a few things:
frenchy hit over 100 points higher with RISP than andruw. that is a wide enough margin for me to think that he still would have hit better than andruw with RISP in the cleanup spot.
your point that pitchers arent as afraid of frenchy, so they pitch to him? good. because he can hit it.
and lastly, its never fair to compare one set of stats for one player and a completely different set of stats for another. if you want to show frenchy’s overall OBP/SLG% then show andruws overall OBP/SLG%. andruw’s will be worse. if you want use use OBP/SLG% with RISP than do that. andruw’s will still be worse.
ditto McFann
By DonCoburleone
December 28, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this
But Stynes, Pedro’s run was in a better division in a better league in the ultimate hitters park (yeah yeah, I know the “launching pad” was no pitchers haven either, but it wasn’t as warped towards hitters as Fenway is). That is why you just can’t compare ERA over their respective seasons. ERA is a good tool to measure a pitchers effectiveness in general, but there are more factors at play than you think… What if a team has a horrible bullpen? How many runners that a pitcher leaves on base get stranded? Take this as an example: Both pitcher A and pitcher B leave with 2 out and the bases loaded in the 7th inning of a 2-1 game. Pitcher A’s replacement pitcher (bullpen guy) comes in and allows a base-clearing double. Pitcher B’s replacement pitcher comes in and gets the hitter to pop-out. Do you see what I mean? Pitcher A and B both leave the game in the exact same situation, only pitcher A’s final stat line is 6.2 innings pitched, 4 earned runs (5.40 era) while Pitcher B’s final stat line is 6.2 innings pitched, 1 earned run (1.35 era)… Now granted, this scenario may only happen 2 or 3 more times for Pitcher A than it does for Pitcher B, but still, do you see how ERA can be deceptive?
Now if you wanna look at ERA+, well then it would be alot harder to poke holes in that argument…
By DonCoburleone
December 28, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this
And Braveheart I don’t want to go on with the Wilt vs. Russell argument, but who exactly told you that Russell “owned” Chamberlain? Sure, the Russell-lead Celtic teams owned the Chamberlain-lead teams, but I would call that more of a lack of talent on Wilt’s teams than simply Russell dominating Wilt. In fact, one on one, Wilt dominated Russell… I’ll let these two points make my argument:
On Nov 24th, 1960, Wilt Chamberlain had the most rebounds in a single game, 55, against BILL RUSSELL, but still lost to the Celtics 132-129. Russell scored 18 points, 19rebounds and 5 assists. Chamberlain totals were 34 points, 55 rebounds and 4 assists. Again though, a Celtics victory happened (which was typically the result when these 2 played each other), because Russell’s teams were always far superior.
Between the years 1961-63, Wilt scored 50 or more points on Bill Russell and the Boston Celtics 6 times! With one of those being a 62 point outing.
By uga-brave
December 28, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
1994 and 1995 maddux threw 400 plus innings gave up less then 300 hits and walked 54. his era over that two year period was 1.59
pretty special stuff. the guy was playing with hitters over that span. i consider that DOMINANT ENOUGH.
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this
DAP The point is that Andruw’s OBP, SLG, and OPS with RISP are almost exactly similar to Frenchy’s overall OBP, SLG, OPS numbers. It’s not unfair to say there is something wrong with congratulating a guy with a .782 overall but villifying a guy with a .797 OPS with RISP. It’s almost the same OPS number. How is one OPS number tolerable in one situation but completely intolerable in another? That was the point of the comparison.
With that being said, Andruw drove me nuts last year as the cleanup hitter and especially with RISP. I wanted to strangle the fella. However, Frenchy and McCann are not up to the task of being the cleanup hitter. Part of the genius of getting Tex is that it shields McCann and Frenchy from carrying the weight of being the cleanup hitter for at least another year. Neither is ready for that responsibility. They are not disciplined enough yet as hitters.
And DAP, it really is hard to say Frenchy would have better numbers with RISP than Andruw when Frenchy has never had to carry the weight of being a feared cleanup hitter with hitters behind him that pitchers are not anywhere near as afraid of and who, as a result, gets fed a steady diet of crappy pitches with which to try to do something with RISP.
Andruw had 39 walks in 173 at bats with RISP. Andruw had 31 walks in his other 399 at bats. Just look at that significant difference. It tells you they were not pitching him anything worth hitting with RISP. Amazingly, Andruw’s biggest flaw in the clutch was that he was not patient enough despite 39 walks in 173 at bats. He should have just walked 60, 70 times and not tried so hard to force things.
We obviously can’t know for sure but with as undisciplined as Frenchy continues to be, I would not look forward to Frenchy trying make do as a cleanup hitter with the crappy pitches Andruw was being fed with RISP. Until he becomes more disciplined, Frenchy remains a #6 hitter with good reason.
Heavy weighs the crown. Frenchy and McCann are not ready yet to take that weight. Neither was Andruw last year. But maybe Andruw would have done better with RISP if he was afforded better protection by Frenchy and McCann. It’s hard to hit good with RISP when you don’t get good pitches to hit because pitchers are not afraid of the guys behind you. Frenchy and McCann will not be ready for cleanup hitter responsibilities until they can someday provide a cleanup hitter sufficient protection.
By stynes
December 28, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
I’m with you, DonC. I know ERA is not a definitive indicator but it’s pretty darn good when looked at over 7 years. The results would be much more skewed with smaller sample size. I understand numbers can be deceptive but that’s a problem you have with any stat. I just tried to minimize them as ERA+ isn’t as widely available as ERA (for example, no tprovided from mlb.com where I quickly threw those stats together).
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
DonC, the Russell/Chamberlain debates never get old. It’s like Marino vs. Montana, Brady vs. Manning, etc…. I love hearing the old timers talk about Chamberlain and Russell. Obviously, i’m too young to have ever seen them play but almost every old timer I have ever heard says Russell owned Chamberlain. They always say the Celtics would let Chamberlain get his and be a one man show. Russell would make his team and teammates better with how he played but Chamberlain was all about Chamberlain almost as if he didn’t have teammates. I dunno. Never saw them play. But, man, if you feel differently, lemme hear it. I have heard too many people in the opposite direction. It’s the offseason. There’s only so much I can debate the same old Braves topics.
By uga-brave
December 28, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
right on point BRAVEHEART.
By ncscoots
December 28, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this
Russell made Wilt work harder than anybody else in the league, but he didn’t “own” him, at least, not mano-a-mano. The planet that contains that circumstance doesn’t exist.
My favorite Wilt anecdote (not connected with women):
After one of the many years Wilt led the league in scoring, he asked for a raise, and was told (in effect), “Sorry, Wilt, we can’t give you a raise because you’re just not a complete player. You don’t pass well enough”.
So, the next year, Wilt led the league in ASSISTS (from the 5, ferchrissake; true story). He went in after the season, asked for a raise, and was told (in effect), “Sorry, Wilt, we can give you a raise because your scoring is way down.”
And people wonder why The Stilt played with attitude, LOL!
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
obviously, the jackal at 7:10 wasn’t me. i was the idiot saying the other idiotic things under the braveheart name.
what’s going on ugabrave? how was your christmas trip to pittsburgh?
alright, time to go watch football.
By Ricardo
December 28, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
I’ve always been interested in the Maddux v. Clemens debate and always approached it with a bit of bias - i “knew” that Clemens was probably a little better, but I liked Maddux a lot so I took his side of the argument, knowing Clemens was a tiny bit better, but not much. In light of the Mitchell report, I think the argument has shifted completely in Greg’s favor. Power vs precision - not as close an argument as we thought. Power + steriods vs. precision was how it was really fought. History will view Maddux as the superior pitcher.
By Choppinmama
December 28, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Hey, DOB - how about a few personal reminicscences about “Beach”? How sad for his family to lose him on Christmas Day. A deep, personal loss for the Braves organization and the many folks who crossed Dave’s path in one way or another.
By A-ville Ranger
December 28, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
The story of these three is unique in baseball history.Forget once in a lifetime,it’s once in forever.Name three pitchers who shared so much of their careers on one team playing at the level Maddux,Glavine and Smoltz have.It never happened before and likely never will again.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 28, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin The Braves already have a rehab project pitcher in Mike Hampton. That is risk enough for this year. Next year may be a different story.
By Andy
December 28, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this
Where did you hear the Bedard acqusition BRAVEHEART?
By BravesAC
December 28, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
About Chamberlain and Russell…the most memorable game of my life was Celtics/76ers at Boston Garden. Celtics scored with seconds left to take a one point lead. 76ers had the ball out on side court on their offensive end…and EVERYONE in thr place knew it meant a Chamberlain dunk. That was the play…and Russell blocked Chamberlain’s dunk at the buzzer. That totally typifies Russell vs. Chamberlain. Russell was once asked how you stop taller centers (he was only 6-9 in the day of 7 footers). His reply was put your foot inside theirs as they set up on the blocks…no footwork, bad shots. The man was a selfless, yet prideful, bball genius.
As for the Braves, their rotation seems 60% talent, 40% woulda-shoulda…and that’s a but scary, though their future has young arms who aren’t nibblers in it. Look for Kelly Johnson to really make strides this year…and an Aybar comeback (ok, I still believe in Santa) would help greatly.
By David O'Brien
December 28, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama, wrote yesterday about how much “Beach” will be missed. Never heard anyone say anything but great things about him, just a total class act according to everyone who’s known him. It’s a huge blow to a lot of folks in the organization, including Bobby Cox. He loved the guy, and I know he’s hurting now that his friend’s gone….
As for Bedard, actually the Braves are one of the only teams I haven’t heard being involved in Bedard talks.Or put it this way: They aren’t one of the dozen or so teams mentioned….
By Braveheart
December 28, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
Where did you hear the Bedard acqusition BRAVEHEART?
Andy That wasn’t me saying that about Bedard. Some jackal stole my identity and posted that trying to make me look stupid. I do a good enough job on my own sounding stupid without a jackal stealing my moniker.
By GeorgetownKid
December 28, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog! I seldom say much, but I love reading these things.
By Andy
December 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this
I see, Braveheart…I’ve had that happen to me before on a few other boards…can’t stand it when people do that.
DOB:Is it just me or does it seem that we have a shortage of right-hand hitting outfielders in our system? Is this a problem, or not so much?
Righties: Diaz, Francoeur, Hernandez, Burrus
Lefties Anderson, Schafer, Jones, Clark, Blanco, Loadenthal, Young, Johnson, Heyward.
By BossLady
December 28, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
I always like Greg Maddux as our No 1 starter. He has set records that will not ever be broken. Winning 15 years of 15 wins or more. I thought Mark Prior and Carey Wood could come up but their injuries took them out of the loop. It was mentioned that when Greg retired the pitching award now call Cy Young will be the Greg Maddux. It played for a while then I never heard it again. Will they change the name of that award?
By BossLady
December 28, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
Also, Greg Maddux off the field personality was amusing. He is an every day guy with a “regular” attitude. He entertained the clubhouse, the Turner Field workers, the fans and kept the grounds crew laughing. I read that he would challenge them to hit his pitches or even get the bat on it at least. Rumors had it that he used the F and MF words frequently. When he was on the mound and broke out cussing it was so funny when Bobby had to explain to umpires that he is cussing himself for throwing the wrong pitch. I love Greg, Andruw and Tommy. It feels like a broken family.
By brian
December 29, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this
any potential number one starters in our system right now? Does Jair have the stuff to be a future #1? JoJo? Any of the young studs in A/AA ball? What about big Charlie?
In 2 years JoJo should really be hitting his stride as a number 1 to number 3 starter (most like a #2 or #3) with Chuck (assuming he is not traded this offseason) a #3 or #4. That is a good start but one of these young starters needs to take over as a dominant #1 starter.
It is a lot easier to grow them on the farm than trade for them.
By on_the_go
December 29, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this
Mad Dog vs. Pedro and Randy.
Dominance at the pitching position includes more than pitching, it includes fielding and hitting (in the NL). IMHO when all factors are included Maddux is the best.
However, a stat I’d love to find is the head-to-head records of these 3 great pitchers.
Does anyone have that info?
Peace
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this
GeorgetownKid, where ya been, man? Good to know you’re still reading, at least. You need to post, though. Come on, now….
Anybody going to see any of the four sold-out Band of Horses shows this long weekend at The Earl in Atlanta?…
BossLady, Maddux is one of the funniest, smartest, and playfully crude individuals I’ve ever known. Really a great dude.
Seemed to me that he was the rare highly successful individual who made everyone around him feel good, instantly made a room light up when he entered, and seemed to have no ill will directed toward him by teammates or opponents.
Everyone liked him because he carried himself in such an unassuming, non-pretentious way, and had that self-deprecating sense of humor.
By bruce
December 29, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this
Dave, I was just a kid, but I believe I remember that Bobby Cox and Jim Beauchamp played on the same team in Richmond in 66 or 67… I think Bobby played third base and Beauchamp right field. Am I close? Thanks, Bruce
By ncgary
December 29, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
lets say we break camp with what we have now , can anyone honestly say that for a chance to win world series hampton and smoltz and hudson would have to be lightz out to face either tigers bosox or angels loaded lineups , even braves with very formidable lineup can score runs but face facts tigers new lineup will probably make murderers row jealous if they live up to statistical normalcies. i think we should offer tex either straight up 22 mil for 5 years or a 7 year contract short for first 3 and heavy loaded last 4. something like 10 mil to sign 8 for first year , 10 mil second year 12 mil 3 rd year then 20 25 and 35 and 35 of course trade after 3 year at undervalued 13 mil a year if he didnt like any of these scenarios , id immediately offer him to orioles for bedard and roberts. you can never have too many left handers , that much value at trade deadline especially if hampton becomes horse that he could be would overshadow even a 140 rbi barrage by tex. then you go get someone like kotchman from the angels who could probably be had reasonably and you dont lose too awful much production for a legitimate hitting defensive centerfielder and a bona fide ace left hander, face it , if we cant sign tex lets get something the last scenario equals around 23.6 mil a year for 7 wed pay 13 mil for 3 before trade to a yank probably where they could eat the overloaded backend of contract, i dont want to lose tex either but with another ace or even a solid no. 3 like blanton from a’s would help preserve some great arms in our org that deserve at least one more ring hitters at first base can be had aces are hard to come by, im not saying trade tex for a blanton but for a bedard and a roberts yeah id pull that trigger, if he want sign our best offer
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 29, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
bruce Beach played with Bobby Cox in Richmond in ‘67. Mostly He played first base but he did occasionally play in the outfield, usually left.
By bruce
December 29, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this
Gil thanks for the refresher… I remember either Dave Van Horn or was it Frank Soden on the radio calling Beach’s booming homers, “that’s a bye bye baby”…
By Joe Fan
December 29, 2007 1:49 AM | Link to this
I couldnt get Band of Horses tickets but I am going to Jan 20 in Charleston.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART,
are you telling me that we just traded prado, pena, and mcFann, for bedard.
well i think we got rooked. how do we trade two prospects with zero upside and a person that has undying love for a pudgy up and coming catcher for a potential all-star.
i dont know braveheart, maybe we should argue #25’S .OPS more. vs. the gwinett county all-stars. the crown is heavy indeed. people want to look back and say this or that, but would you replace albert pujols in the clean up spot.
andruw had the same run producing #’ s as did that card’s guy. he struggled early and then hit.
sorry all you detractors BRAVEHEART is right. it just did not work out. andruw jones carried this team offensively for two years.
dont forget HOSS hit .248 30 94 in 1994, not far off.
BRAVEHEART thanks for asking about my holidays, hope all went well for you.
By BravesDave
December 29, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this
Hey, uga, how is it going? Haven’t commented in a long while, but I still read. Changed jobs and no longer working from home, so I can’t sit at the computer at all hours.
Looking forward to a full season with Teixiera. Not overly excited about Glavine, although anyone that can win 15 is a huge improvement over last season’s awful rotation. I still think this team, as currently constructed, is missing something.
By Herb Bell
December 29, 2007 2:23 AM | Link to this
In this age of writers trying to show how critical and sarcastic they can be, it’s a pleasure to read your writings, DOB. You seem to really like what you do … you appear to love the game … and your music. And you don’t think you have to make a mark by always ripping a player, the home team, etc.
Thank you for your refreshing, positive approach. You help us enjoy also. Just wish some of the other AJC writers(other than the old pro Bisher) could get a clue! This from one who grew up in Atlanta going to Cracker games at the old Ponce de Leon Park. Left Atlanta in the early 60s but still keep up with my Braves and Jackets through AJC.
By Herb Bell
December 29, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this
In this age of writers trying to show how critical and sarcastic they can be, it’s a pleasure to read your writings, DOB. You seem to really like what you do … you appear to love the game … and your music. And you don’t think you have to make a mark by always ripping a player, the home team, etc.
Thank you for your refreshing, positive approach. You help us enjoy also. Just wish some of the other AJC writers(other than the old pro Bisher) could get a clue! This from one who grew up in Atlanta going to Cracker games at the old Ponce de Leon Park. Left Atlanta in the early 60s but still keep up with my Braves and Jackets through AJC.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this
good story for all you brave fans,
worked summers at stone moutain golf course during and after my time at georgia. CLARENCE JONES the old hitting coach for the braves used to always come out. he would always bring pete smith, blauser, and tommy gregg. now this was around 1991 and 1992. this is when the braves were in the dogfights with DARYL and LASSORDA.
anyone that remembers the city was crazy for the braves in late august.
on a day off AVERY, GREGG, CJ, and a player to be named later played golf and left one of the guys there.
they not only left AVERY but they told him they were coming back. AVERY hung around the pro shop, when deion said avery was clueless he was right. but for me i was in awe. the guy blew away the pirates in 91.
steve avery was always one of the most down to earth braves i ever met.
i guess ave’s took their money that day because someone else came and got him.
still play golf with a couple of thos guys, gregg is a hitting coach with k.c. in the minors. and couple of old braves still hang out at T.J’s on holcomb bridge.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 2:45 AM | Link to this
brave-dave
is that you, great to hear you again
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 2:48 AM | Link to this
bravedave
dude, i thought you died or either your wife took away your laptoop.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 2:54 AM | Link to this
bravedave might be back. the graveyard shift is making a strong stove league comeback. where are you WAYNE.
By BravesDave
December 29, 2007 2:57 AM | Link to this
Nah, my wife couldn’t catch me these days…she is pregnant and due in two weeks. I just changed jobs back in September. All season I was working from home, so sleep wasn’t very important. Now that I am back doing the commute and 9-to-5 thing, I can’t stay up all night conversing on this blog. I miss it, though.
How are things with you?
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 3:10 AM | Link to this
BRAVEDAVE,
always missed your view. things are good, told you about those sub prime loans. ask citi bank
By DAP
December 29, 2007 3:11 AM | Link to this
uga-brave sometimes i wish i could delete my posts after i post them. i bet you feel the same way sometimes.
andruw had the same run producing #’ s as did that card’s guy. he struggled early and then hit.
sorry, man. thats just wrong. you might want to check your stats again. andruw’s season does not compare to pujols’ at all. pujols hit over 100 points higher overall AND with RISP, had more homers, rbis, and did it with a much less potent lineup around him.
dont forget HOSS hit .248 30 94 in 1994, not far off.
hoss didnt play in ‘94, but those stats look like they are from ‘04. this was hoss’ worse season ever, and he still was better in litterally every category… AVG overall AVG with RISP, homers, rbis, OPS, everything.
i just cant fathom why you guys think andruw was the best option to bat cleanup in ‘07. do you have any idea how bad .222 is? thats third to last in the majors.
By Nolie
December 29, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this
Russell made Wilt work harder than anybody else in the league, but he didn’t “own” him, at least, not mano-a-mano. The planet that contains that circumstance doesn’t exist.NCSCOOTS S’true. both great. different styles of play dictated largely by different team approach and ability. On an even team I would have taken Wilt. nobody dominated Wilt mano a mano. Russell was definitely one of those great intangibles guys along with his talent, but Wilt was THE MAN!
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 3:21 AM | Link to this
bravedave,
glav better be good or his legacy in the ATL. is gonna stink.
think about it, he bolted for WHAT. now he comes back. he better be decent. i think he will. the guy has got pride. cant wait to see him shut down the METS. he will do it in SHEA.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 3:32 AM | Link to this
DAP,
you are right those numbers are from 04 but how could you expect a ALL-STAR TO produce the #’s he did.
DAP, you have been and always will be a smart blogger but andruw was the right choice to hit cleanup.
hinghsight is always 20-20
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 3:43 AM | Link to this
DAP,
your numbers are right. but andruw carried the the braves for two years. BOBBY was gonna stick with him. it just did not work out. DAP, you are right, but did you not think he would of not ever get it going.
By BravesDave
December 29, 2007 3:46 AM | Link to this
uga, I am caught in the middle on Glavine. There is no question that he is going to be better than anything the Braves trotted to the mound in the 3, 4, or 5 spot last season. Another guy that can go 7 innings should help the bullpen. Also, there is no doubt that he pitched well last season (until his last few starts). He will be motivated to do well, also.
I just don’t know that he is the final answer at this point. I wish the Braves didn’t feel comfortable that they no longer need to work on the rotation after acquiring him. That seems very short-sighted to me.
Also, I wasn’t thrilled with the Renteria trade. This Jurrjens kid seems to have some talent, but we gave up an All-Star.
Also, I can’t see the Braves being a serious WS contender with Prado, Josh Anderson, and Brandon Jones playing key roles. They need another hitter.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:00 AM | Link to this
bravesdave,
is back! the most pragmatic blogger this this side of N8 or BRAVEHEART.
SPRING TRAINING MUST BE GETTING CLOSE. cant wait lew, chrisklob, paladin, and tennpaul.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:08 AM | Link to this
bravesdave,
i am with you on glav. but he cant be worse then chuck n duck. at least he will keep it in seats. if we get anything from HAMP, we will be just fine. the key will be smoltz being smoltz and hudson doing what he did last year.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:17 AM | Link to this
bravesdave,
i thought the renteria trade was a salary dump too. we got glav for the money we kissed away. jjj better not turn out to be kyle davies. the tigers thought he was kind of a marginal talent, he could go either way.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:22 AM | Link to this
bravesdave is back. great for the blog. dont tell mcFann she or he will not get it.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:26 AM | Link to this
graveyard shift is over, GO BRAVES.
BRAVEHEART, explain to everyone else why .ops is important. night all.
By BravesDave
December 29, 2007 4:32 AM | Link to this
I just can’t imagine, right now, getting anything out of Hampton. Also, I don’t know that I would want a rotation that has Glavine, Hampton, and Chuck James. Imagine a 3-game series with those 3 starters…it would be like facing the same pitcher three straight days for the opposition.
Jurrjens looked solid in the video footage of his starts that I watched.
Unless Chuck James is working on a third pitch as we speak, I don’t want him anywhere near the rotation in 2008.
One good thing for the Braves is…who can figure out what the Mets are trying to do this offseason??
By BravesDave
December 29, 2007 4:34 AM | Link to this
Don’t you mean ‘good morning’, uga?
See ya later.
By uga-brave
December 29, 2007 4:42 AM | Link to this
always a pleasure bravesdave, missed ya.
By Nolie
December 29, 2007 6:18 AM | Link to this
Also, I don’t know that I would want a rotation that has Glavine, Hampton, and Chuck James. Imagine a 3-game series with those 3 starters…it would be like facing the same pitcher three straight days for the opposition.BravesDave
not sure that I would lump Hampton in as the same kinda pitcher as the other two. They are all LHers, but Hampy is much more of a groundball pitcher than Glav and James. and they all have fairly different deliveries. The Braves’ have used three lefties in the rotation a coupla times b4 though it’s been awhile. And if they do utilize the semi-six man rotation that is being talked about, they would probably not usually have all three pitching back to back to back I hope.
By gotigers72
December 29, 2007 6:51 AM | Link to this
I agree with you BravesDave - There are still some pieces of the puzzle missing. I’m just not sure that Glavine at 42 can win 15 like everybody thinks he can. As far as Centerfield, the Braves may find somebody to play there that is adequate defensively, but until Schafer gets here, defense at that position will not be as good as it was with AJ. Haven’t seen Schafer personally, but word is he can go get it with anybody. Did you see how shallow AJ played? My goodness, how many hits did he take away by playing that shallow?
The bench, whoever they are, can’t be any worse than that collection they had last year. 3 of them have already been released [Orr, Woodward and Julio]. Besides starting pitching, that is the one area that needed the most improvement, IMO. And even with Chipper and Teixeira, the power numbers don’t look as good, because even at .222, Andruw drove in a lot of runs. More than whoever plays center will drive in. I’m with the others that have suggested that another bat is still needed.
I do however, believe that Mr. Wren has made some improvements. I hated to see Renteria go, but if Jurrjens turns into a decent starter [if not this year then soon], and Hernandez turns out to be as good as advertised, then the trade will have been worth it. Hernandez was the player of the year in the Midwest League. My question is where will he play? With Schafer here, what will the Braves do with 2 centerfielders that can run like deer and cover all that ground? Could one of them be trade bait? I hope not. Just from what I’ve read, they both have tremendous upsides.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 29, 2007 7:09 AM | Link to this
BravesDave , if Hampton stays healthy , the Braves can count on him to start about 15-20 games in 2008. The problem is not his ability to pitch. It’s the question of , can he stay healthy long enough to make a significant contribution during the season.
Chuck James has been in my doghouse since the all-star break. It drives me crazy to see such a young talented player underachieve. James dominated during his four minor league years , then was so highly thought of after the 2006 season , the Braves declared him to be untradeable.
2008 will tell the tale for the future of Chuck James in a Braves uniform.
Tom Glavine is money in the bank. Ditto for Smoltz and Hudson.
Jo-Jo Reyes and Jair Jurrjens have the talent and ability to pitch in the big leagues , it will take some time to determine how successful they are as starting pitchers.
Jeff Bennett ? Now this kid has been a breath of fresh air. After T.J. surgery and a difficult recovery , he found his niche back in the rotation as a starting pitcher , something he hadn’t done since 2002 while playing A ball for the Lynchburg Pirates.
He has had nothing but success since becoming a starter , helping the Richmond Braves win the 2007 Governors Cup , impressing everyone with his three starts in Atlanta , then going to play winter ball in Venezuela and again dominating the hitters in that league.
The 6-3 right hander has five big league pitches. A mid 90’s heater , nice slider , decent change up , sinker and a good curve ball that he must have started throwing just this season.
He is my Dark Horse candidate to win a spot in the rotation.
Then waiting in the wings are Charlie Morton , Blaine Boyer , Francisley Bueno and Dan Smith.
Folks , that is a ton of talent and pitching. It’s just half the reason I believe that the 2008 Braves are playoff material.
By Braveone
December 29, 2007 7:44 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART You should buy Braves season tickets and show up dressed as William Wallace from the movie Braveheart. The Braves could use a few in-park fans like that.
By MEB
December 29, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
Jim Leyritz is not having a real happy holiday season as he faces DUI and manslaughter charges down in Fort Lauderdale. Interesting that the article boils his major league career down to his 3 run home run off of Mark Wohlers in game 4 of the 96 WS. I can still remember that moment just like yesterday and it has to be the worst sports moment ever for all Braves fans. Full story
By Braves Fan 79
December 29, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this
Lets hope Cox keeps Glavine and Smoltz fresh for the stretch run in August… Go Braves!
By Braveheart
December 29, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this
BRAVEHEART You should buy Braves season tickets and show up dressed as William Wallace from the movie Braveheart. The Braves could use a few in-park fans like that.
The Ted could definitely use oddball fans like that. Someone’s gotta replace the Langerhands. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t look very good in a kilt. Maybe I could be talked into it if a bunch of other bloggers showed up and were willing to paint their faces blue and white and were willing to wear kilts. We would need a bagpiper though to lead us into the Ted. Or maybe in honor of those no longer here, we could show up as old school scribes, wearing suspenders and fedoras and chewing on cigars. Or maybe in honor of Coach, a bunch of us could show up dressed like Coach wearing short shorts, a plain white tee that simply says Coach, sport a 70s porn stache, and blow whistles the whole game. we gotta get organized and theme up our appearances……
By Tomahakin
December 29, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
MEB All braves fans remember Jim “Frito” Leyritz for that homerun off Wohlers in the 96 series, and guess who climbed the wall trying o catch it…? None other than a 19 year old Andruw Jones….
By Tomahakin
December 29, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
MEB All braves fans remember Jim “Frito” Leyritz for that homerun off Wohlers in the 96 series, and guess who climbed the wall trying o catch it…? None other than a 19 year old Andruw Jones….
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, they’d have to be those classic too-tight polyester Bike-brand coaching shorts from the 1970s and ’80s. Those were beauties.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Gotigers, how many No. 3 starters are counted on to win 15 games?
Glavine isn’t expected to pitch like a No. 1 starter, though he might on some nights, certainly. He’s expected to pitch like a good No. 3 starter, and give the Braves 10-13 wins and, more importantly, 190-200 innings. They’d be pleased with that, and he’d certainly be worth the $8 mill investment if he delivers that.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
Herb Bell, thanks much….
Joe Fan, what stinks is that we’re going to Charleston tomorrow while the Band Of Horses (from S.C.) are going to be here, and now you’re telling me the band is going to be in Charleston on Jan. 20.
Oh, well. I’m sure we’ll find plenty to do in Charleston for New Year’s.
By Braveheart
December 29, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
they’d have to be those classic too-tight polyester Bike-brand coaching shorts from the 1970s and ’80s. Those were beauties.
Yep, those were the exact nut huggers I was thinking of.
And thanks to Herb Bell, I can’t get the Beastie Boys’ Get It Together song with Q-Tip out of my head. I’m like Ma Bell, I got the Ill Communication…….
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB i dont think you pay 8million to a guy to win 10 games, not even if he is #5. To me 10 for Glavine will be an all around failure. 8M are clearly paid for what you mentioned…… 190-200 IP but also more than 10Ws, i would say 14-15 is more realistic goal. You could expect 10 wins from jojo at a fraction of the price. I know there are more things to the issue, but i repeat 10-13 Ws sounds like a .500 - .550 winning percentage. Is that what are we supposed to get for that kind of money? yucks!!!
By Steve McP
December 29, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
The thought of a group of oldies in those shorts is going to haunt me for the rest of the day - pretty sure that TV would not consider it family viewing and only show the group in the late night re-run!
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 29, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Overlord , would you rather pay Carlos Silva 12 million in 2008 ? The Seattle Mariners will. Silva was 13-14 with an ERA of 4.19 in 2007. He has a career record of 45-45 with an ERA of 4.31 as a starter.
Tom Glavine went 13-8 with an ERA of 4.45 last season. His career winning percentage is .604 , Silva is a .500 pitcher making 12 million while Glavine will be paid 8 million.
I’ll take Tom Glavine any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
By TommyP
December 29, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Have a very good feeling about this total Braves pitching staff. I LOVE the idea of having a 6th starter/”swingman” in the balance. I think Glavine will give us exactly what DOB mentioned but I think one of those youngsters (Jurrjens or Jojo) will breakout this year….I personally think it will be Jurrjens.
New Year’s Wish(es): Braves get a solid CF that is cost-efficient with some upside. (McLouth?)
Braves sign Teixeira long-term.
Braves DON’T sign some re-tread catcher with hardly any skills left.
DOB: At this point, who is THE pinch hitter for the Braves? You know, the guy you save for that crucial at bat late in the game?
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Get It Together, definitely one of their five best songs. It’s on my Ipod, and I smile when it comes on when I’m working out or mowing the yard. Great tune.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Overlord, I think you need to recheck the recent market for starting pitchers. Check out every salary handed out to an established starter in the past three years and tell me $8 mill isn’t an acceptable price for a one-year commitment to a guy who’s won 13 or more almost ever year. Please check those contracts of every free agent signed in the past two or three winters and tell me which ones were better signings.
And they do expect that from Jurrjens or Jo-Jo, or Chuck for that matter. But you don’t go into a season with a rotation full of unestablished prospects and rookies and hope that they can lead a team in three or four out of every five games. Playoff teams, almost without exception, have a few established guys in their rotation, guys established before the season begins.
By nOLIE
December 29, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Getting back for just a sec to the basketball discussion of last midnight shift, the guy who both Wilt and Kareem said they most hated to face was HOFer Nate Thurmond. Guy could really play some D and was a decent scorer too for the times. A fellow Bowling Green State Univ. alum and quite a character.
By Desperado Dave
December 29, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
DOB, what do you think are the Braves’ plans to rebuild the pitching staff? In the next year or so, Smoltz and Glavine will be gone with Huddy as the only solid, proven starter. I don’t see Hudson as a number one starter. What do you think Atlanta sees itself doing to have a solid staff in the next year or so?
By jim
December 29, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
When talking about the best pitcher since 1950 (included)Robin Roberts (from 1950 - 1955) and Koufax (1961-66)had 6-year spans that were as good or better than any of the great pitchers since 1980. In the 6 years between 1950 and 1955 (incl), Roberts won a total 139 games and pitched 304 or more innings each year. The heavy workload and lousy Phillie teams of the late 50’s took a toll and Roberts never had comparable success during the remainder of his carrer. Koufax spent his first six inconsistent years in the majors learning how to harness his talent. When he did, the last six years were legendary. Whitey Ford never had the big win numbers of some of his contemporaries because Casey Stengle held him back to face the toughest opposition. For a big game pitcher, few, if any, were better.
But if we are to talk about the best pitcher since 1950, we have to bring Warren Spahn into the conversation. Eleven of his thirteen 20+ win seasons came (during and) after 1950. During the decade of the 50’s he AVERAGED 20.9 wins per season, and as a 42 year old in 1963 he went 23 -7 with a 2.60 ERA, 7 shutouts, 22 complete games, 260 IP. 1963 also featured the 16 inning 1-0 loss to Juan Marichal. Spahn’s career numbers were 363 wins, 245 losses, 3.09 ERA, 382 CG., 63 shutouts, 29 saves, 5243.2 IP, 4830 hits. If sustained excellence over a long period of time(from 1947-1963)is a measure of greatness, then Spahn cannot be kept out of the discussion of who is the best pitcher of the post-WWII era.
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
Ben sheets 11M 12-5(3.82)
Chris Carpenter 8.5M OFS
Derek Lowe 9.5M 12-14(3.88)
Brad Penny 7.75M 16-4(3.03)
Braden Looper 4.75M 12-12(4.94)
Barry Zito 11M 11-13(4.53)
Kelvim Escobar 9M 18-7(3.40)
John Lackey 5.8M 19-9(3.01)
Jon Garland 10M 10-13(4.23)
Josh Becket 6.7M 20-7(3.27)
Tim Wakefield 4M 17-12(4.76)
Dice K 6.3M 15-12(4.40)
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
DOB i didnt say 8M was a high price to pay, it aint. I just said 10 wins is too little to ask. We got 11 from Chuck last year, of course only 161 IP. Still i do think Glavine is an improvement over chuck (no need to be a genius to know that), in order for braves to have success, tom will have to have some 15Ws, that is if hampton and the youngsters dont give us a pleasant surprise.
By Curt
December 29, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Overlord,
I feel that the Braves would need 15 w’s out of Glavine if they expected the 4 and 5 spots to be as bad as they were last year. I think they expecting to get more from the 4 and 5 hole guys, be they Hampton and James or Jo-jo and Jurrjens. If they believed that the 4 and 5 spots would be the black holes they were last year then of course Glavine would need to win 15 for the team to do well, fact is that is just not the case.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 29, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
I agree with Curt , the starting pitching is vastly improved.
By McFann
December 29, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Just saw a GREAT movie, folks: National Treasure: Book of Secrets Ya wanna talk about a thriller…
Oh and hey, Braveheart, I still don’t know what your point is in comparing those stats. Yeah, you know the ones. Frenchy’s overall SLG % is more tolerable than AJ’s with RISP because AJ had less ABs with RISP, if that makes sense. The more ABs you have, the lower your SLG % is likely to be. With less ABs, your SLG % should be higher because there’s a smaller number to divide with. Are you getting that?
I’m not saying Francoeur had a good OPS % overall, (because he did not), I’m saying it wasn’t half bad with RISP. (While we’re at it, McCann’s OPS with RISP was .883.) I’m also not completely saying Francoeur’s ready to bat clean-up—I wouldn’t want him to—but he still would have been a better choice than Andruw Jones…Tim Hudson might have been better than Andruw Jones (Please don’t yell at me over the blogesphere for that one. It was a joke, if you know what I mean.) I’m not saying I want McCann to bat clean-up, either. I’d keep him fifth all the time. But he did bat .324 in that spot. I should think it would be a good thing to have someone who pitchers aren’t afraid of to bat forth. Then they’d throw ‘im anything and he could hit it out. But gee wiz! What do I know, anyway?
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Curt i totally agree with you, except in “the fact”, for me the fact is, and it will be that way until mid may, that the back of the starting rotation is like the Hindenburg (Zeppelin), it can crash and burn (top gun) pretty fast.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
Overlord, that’s the most misleading and outright misrepresentative set of salaries anyone has EVER posted on this blog. What on earth are you giving us the pitcher’s ONE-YEAR salary figure for, when you know that the entire contract is what matters? Absolutely meaningless, the salary figures you quoted for almost every one of those pitchers. I would’ve not guessed you’d stoop to that to try to make a point. Folks here are far too savvy for that.
Dice K $6.3 MILL? So freakin’ what? The Red Sox paid $103 mill for his services for six years, including the negotiating-rights fee. That’s an average of just over $17 mill per season, and you offer that $6.3 mill figure as if it means something.
Penny signed what everyone agreed was a below-market contract (because of his past injuries) at $7.5M in ‘07, $8.5M in ‘08, with a $8.75M club option in ‘09. He’ll get at least $13-14 mill per season in his next one.
BEN SHEETS? He’s finished a four-year, $38.5 mill contract in 2008, a deal he got two years before free agency. Wait till you see what he gets next winter. He’s never won more than 12 games in his seven seasons and hasn’t pitched 160 innings in any of the past three, yet Sheets has made $21 mill over the past two seasons (more than $11 mill last season).
Glavine has won at least 13 games in 16 of the past 19 seasons, including each of the past three, and has pitched at least 198 innings in 12 of the past 13 seasons. You really want to compare him to Sheets, huh?
Beckett is in the middle of a three-year, $30 mill contract extension he signed during the 2006 season, when he’d had a total of one double-digit win season in his entire career (15 wins in 2005, nine or fewer wins each of the three injury-plagued previous seasons).
It was a deal that’s now way below-market considering the year he had. But it’s still more than $10 mill per season including the $12 mill club option for 2012, and he’ll make close to double that per year if he keeps pitching like he did this year (your $6.7 mill figure quoted is laughable; again, you totally misrepresented his contract).
Barry Zito? BARRY ZITO $11 mill? Who in the world cares about the first year salary in his massive deal. Overlord, that was the first season of a seven-year, $126 mill contract — that’s $18 million per season, Overlord.
Kelvim Escobar? He was in the first season of a three-year, $28.75 mill contract extension he signed in 2006, the year he went 11-14 in 30 starts. Last year’s 18-11 was only the second time he’s won more than 13 games, and he had an 83-83 career record in 380 games (171 starts) before last season.
OK, I’ll stop. I think I’ve made my point. You were totally disingenuous in reporting those figures. I asked you to check the going rate the past couple of years for free agents, and you come up with a list that attempts to make it appear that Glavine’s $8 mill, one-year contract for a guy who over the past three seasons has won 13-15 games and averaged over 200 innings, that that somehow is too much. Absurd.
It’s below-market value, and if you don’t recognize that, then you just don’t understand the economics of today’s game or simply are trying desperately to find statistics that indicate an $8 mill free-agent pitcher should be expected to win 15 or more games. Sorry, like I said, folks on this blog are way more savvy than that. They get it.
Today’s pitching is absurdly overpriced. Just look at Jason Marquis, Carlos Silva, et al. Look at the contracts handed out over the past two years. And don’t give me a completely irrelevant list like you gave before.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 29, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
If the Braves really are shopping for another hard throwing lefty , look no further than Minnesota. His name is Jose Mijares.
Signed as a 17-year-old international free agent from Venezuela in 2002, Jose Mijares is an incredibly high-ceilinged lefthander. Scout.com raves about his “electric” 92-95 MPH fastball, good slider, great curveball, improving changeup, and devastating pickoff move. Mijares has jockeyed some between starting and relieving, but his velocity isn’t impacted by starting, his stamina is improving, and he’s just 23 years of age.
By Marc
December 29, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
I read this blog, but I rarely post. I am a huge Atlanta Braves fan living in Los Angeles. I became a Braves fan upon meeting Dale Murphy at Dodger Stadium in 1980. I was an impressionable 5 year old boy, trying to get autographs before the game. Most of the Dodgers seemed to busy to sign, and as I was about to turn away a large Atlanta Brave came up to me. He reached out, took the ball I was holding and signed. He then asked if I wanted a picture, I looked at my Dad who said sure. Next thing I know I am scooped up over the railing and my Dad snapped a bunch of pictures. He then spoke to me for seceral minutes before returning to warm up. Not that fans don’t know, but Dale Murphy is one of the nicest guys on the planet, and to a 5 year old boy he made such a positivr impression on me, and I was instantly a Braves fan for life. It is to bad in the era of the spoiled and cynical athlete that more guys are not like Dale Murphy, who truly is a role model.
Sorry, now onto the post. I think Wren has done a great job of filling vital holes. Last year with a good 3rd starter and a solid utility guy the Braves probably make the playoffs.
However, I think the Braves are 1 good player away from taking a very winnable division. This player can either be a good starter or position player. The rotation is solid, barring injury. The question becomes if Hampton can’t go, and Chuck James remains inconsistent there is still a huge drop off after Glavine. I know you can’t just get Bedard, but perhaps there is more of a 3, 4, or 5 guy out there. This would solidify the rotation.
I know Cox seems to think they have enough offense, but I just don’t see it. To me, as it stands now, and I know there is plenty of time left, there are a lot of question marks.
Can Escobar repeat his outstanding rookie season as the leadoff hitter? Can Johnson remain productive in the 2 hole? Will Chipper stay healthy? Will Mccann progress or regress, as he did last year, in his offense? Can Matt Diaz remain an effective 300 hitter? Can Brandon Jones be a productive platoon guy in LF as a rookie? Also, what I find amazing is the Braves may field a team where there entire starting outfield bats 6th, 7th, and 8th in the lineup. How many other teams bat their whole lineup at the bottom of the lineup? The other problem, with the loss of Andruw Jones, is that I see really only 2 sure 30 homer seasons, Chipper, and Texeira. (Yes Mccann and Franc could hit 30). The one really strong part of the team seems to be the bullpen. I think the Braves are set there. I think Wren between now and the start of the season needs to get another quality starter to negate the weaknesses of the lineup, or go out and get another proven hitter. I could sit here and rattle off names, but this isn’t Fantasy Baseball, I would love Bedard and and Chone Figgins, but that isn’t realistic, I just merely think the Braves still have work to do. Hopefully Wren isn’t done tinkering, and we can get another guy in here to help the Braves return to the playoffs.
Even if we don’t make the playoffs, a sunny day of baseball in 1980, and the memory of a great Dale Murphy baseball career in a Braves baseball uniform will keep me watching no matter what.
DOB thanks for a great blog, and a chance for a Braves fan in Los Angeles to stay in touch with his favorite team.
By McFann
December 29, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Marc
Welcome to the world of Brave Blogging (And I guess ya kinda have to be Brave to post here, true?)
You weren’t kidding when you said there were a lot of question marks. Regarding your, heh heh, forth question, may I be among the first (if not the first around here) to type that, yes, I think McCann will progress in his offense. Don’t know if he’ll knock out 30 homers, but heck, I can dream, can’t I?
No really. I think last year was a “funk”, for lack of a better word. Besides, he had Lasik back in…October? (BTW, nice coverage of that, eh? Wow. And Tex’s knee surgery? Boy…) So the corrected vision should surely help him see pitches better. But it so hard to tell with catchers. One bad play at the plate and everything’s out the window. One thing’s for certain, (and you cann all blast me this time next year if I’m wrong and still around) he’s not going to regress. “Of this I am a firm believer.” (That’s a line from a song by Third Day, Come Together. I guess you could call that my theme song for this here blog.)
As for Matt Diaz: 300 average? Here he comes!!
Glad you like the Braves and not the Dodgers, Marc. But ya know, the Dodgers are trying to become the Western Braves. LOL!!
By ColoradoBravesFan
December 29, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Great Moments in Fleece History: The Nolan Ryan Trade
Date: December 10, 1971.
Trade: GM of the New York Mets, Bob Scheffing, traded SP Nolan Ryan, P Don Rose, C Francisco Estrada, and OF Leroy Stanton to the California Angels for SS Jim Fregosi.
Nothing like trading a future Hall-of-Famer for a “past his prime” shortstop to spark a great moment in fleece history. Fregosi was only 29, but his best years were well behind him.
[http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/29/great-moments-in-fleece-history-the-nolan-ryan-trade/]
By BosnianBaller
December 29, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
I think Chuck James should take villareal’s place as the long man out of the bullpen.He pitches five good innings which is really all you need.
By Ed Glennon
December 29, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Smoltz should have won at least two Cy Young Awards in the last five years.
By ColoradoBravesFan
December 29, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
I messd up the link…
Nolan Ryan Trade
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 29, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
BosnianBaller I think you will find that Jeff Bennett is better suited to the role of long relief/spot starter. He is a bit more mature than Chuck. This all however, is really going to depend if Hampton is indeed able to return and how well the other starters hold up.
As for the “one more player to compete” comment by another blogger, That is dependent on who finally ends up playing center field.
By mo in the boonies
December 29, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Don’t have much to say…just want to add my bit to keep up the number of posts on the blog. Smoltz has always been my favorite Brave, but I always got a kick out of the way Maddox fields his position. He comes out of his pitch every time ready to catch the ball, unlike a lot of other pitchers. I’d sure like to see him become the Braves pitching coach when he is done playing. Anyway enjoyed reading the “notorious one’s” blog about Smoltz.
Lew We got a blizzard last night, it is probably headed your way. We got about 8”, on top of what we already had. The trees are loaded, pretty to look at though. It is a good packing snow, so I bet the kids are all loving it. Snowmen, snow balls, and snow angels!
By mo in the boonies
December 29, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Whoops, mis-spelled Maddux! Can never remember if it is an u or an o.
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
That list was meant to show money can buy many different things from really good deals (beckett) to really bad, at least to the date (Zito). I braves case, i think it was an average deal maybe you can call it a good deal. But it is really far from being a great deal or something like that. Theres no way glavine will be a lot better from last year (if better, because of pitching for bobby and with smoltz). I repeat again, I never said he was overpaid, but dont think he is the best we could find for that kind of money. Sure, I could be wrong. Just another opinion, not based on any list checked or anything, but ill do some homework to try corroborate this idea.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 29, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
mo in the boonies Don’t sweat the small stuff, it’s all good.
By Eric from MO
December 29, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Havent posted since the season, but Im bored so what the heck. As far as Maddux being the greatest pitcher in the last 25 years, I would have to say yes. The only one you can argue is Clemons and at first I didnt really believe the Mitchell Report but since Petite basically said it was correct with him, I will have to assume that Clemons is lying. Why would the trainer be so correct with the info about Petite then lie about Clemons.
As far as Johnson and Pedro go, I really dont think you can make a case for them. Pedro is often injured and Johnson is now injured frequently and even when he was healthy he was inconsistant many seasons.
The two big knocks against Maddux is postseason and strikeouts. Well neither Pedro nor Johnson are not great in postseason either. Before 2001 Randy was worse in the postseason than Maddux. As for Pedro the Yankees owned him in the postseason. Also his arm was normally shot by the time October got around. All of them only have one ring. As far as strikeouts Maddux has over 3000 strikouts. When he did that he was only the ninth pitcher to record 3000 strikouts and 300 wins. Not too shabby.
As for next season’s rotation I think it will be alright. Smoltz and Hudson are as good as any teams top two pitchers. Glavine is no longer an ace but he doesnt have to be. If he is decent and we get 190-200+ innings that will be a great addition. While James is a bad number 3 pitcher he is an okay #4 pitcher. I dont expect anything from Hampton. Im dont hate him like some people, sometime you cant control injuries, but I dont expect him to ever play again.
I dont know what to expect from the bullpin, not different from most years. Sometimes you think a bullpin will be bad and they turn out great such as 2002. Other years you think they will be great and they will end up sucking such as 2007.
I have one suggestion tell me what you think of it. Since you Smoltz never gets much run support why dont we move him to our number 3 pitcher. That way he isnt going against other teams aces and he may get more run support. We then put Glavine at the #1 spot, because after watching him the last couple years he is either really good or really bad in games. On the games he is really bad he would probably lose to the opponents number 3 pitchers anyways and when he is pitching good he could still beat other teams aces. At least this way Smoltz will win his games.
Sorry for the long post but I was bored and had some catching up to do.
By McFann
December 29, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
Ya know, it would have been nice to have a story to go with that photo gallery…
By McFann
December 29, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
mo, I have that same problem with Maddox. I mean Maddux!!
By Darth Stinky
December 29, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
Nice to see Dob sucking up to TG and downstairs JS at such an early juncture in the offseason. Gotta get those lips in shape to kiss a*, ya know.
By Robert
December 29, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this
Warning - the following contains sarcasm.
Transcript of a 911 call from Ft Lauderdale Florida
911 dispatch - Hello , what is your emergency
Caller - There’s been an accident.An SUV. Hurry man. The guy was a baseball player
911 dispatch - A baseball player?
Caller - Yeah - It’s Jim F’in Leyritz
911 Dispacth - Are you a Braves fan?
By Robert
December 29, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
“By most measures, including wins and durability — not to mention squeezing every ounce possible out of one’s talent — Glavine isn’t far behind Maddux.”
Wrong. DOB may not be able to discern the difference, but Maddux has always been a step and a half ahead of Maddux
Of course, Glavine is about 8 steps ahead of the average pitcher
By McFann
December 29, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Maddux has always been a step ahead of Maddux?
Uh…is that a typo?
By CharlieAlphaBravo
December 29, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
Oh snap, Overlord… DOB totally punk’d you! Boo-yah! But c’mon man, Dice-K for $6 mil and Zito for $11 mil? Did you think we’ve been living under a rock for the last year?? For that, we are indeed too savvy.
By CharlieAlphaBravo
December 29, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
DOB: Won’t be making any of the Band Of Horses shows, but I did manage to score a couple of sweet suite seats at Philips for the Widespread Panic show on the 30th. Still, in my opinion, one of the best party bands of all-time… I think I might remember you mentioning it before, but did you ever listen to John Mayer’s last album, Continuum??? I think you may have listed it in your 2006 albums of the year, but if you haven’t heard it, you certainly should. I had lost faith in Mr. Mayer after his third album was so bubble-gum poppy that it made me vomit blood. Or maybe that was the $2.55 in nickels I accidentally swallowed while suffering through it… Either way, Continuum absolutely blew me away. It seems that playing with Clapton and B.B. King (among others) has rubbed off on him. You can certainly hear the Slowhand’s influence during Mayer’s tight, percise solos. Never before have I seen an artist make such an enormous transition in such a short time. With one album he’s gone from being a Rock & Roll afterthought to being one of the most promising young songwriters in American music. And fellow Blogatarians: If you’re reading this and snickering about my horrible taste in music, then listen to the album… If you still disagree, then snicker away… Just don’t make the mistake I made and wait a year or two before getting around to it.
Happy New Year!!!
By Overlord
December 29, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
CAB if if thought that, i wouldnt come here to blog, i can assure you that. But its OK for you to think as DOB does, i always do, not 100% this time, thats all.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this
CAB (much easier that way), no I didn’t get that Mayer album. But I do know he’s legit with his blues playing. Just can’t get past his image, frankly.
You want to hear a white boy play some serious blues, go see Tinsley Ellis….
Overlord, you know it was nothing personal. That’s what I like about you. Just good debate/arguing, whatever. Nothing wrong with that. Some take it too personally, but not many here on the old blog do anymore, thankfully.
By David O'Brien
December 29, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
So are the Giants gonna hold off the Pats in the fourth quarter, folks? Get your predictions in now, or it’ll be too late. Third quarter just ended.
By MEB
December 29, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this
The Giants are notorious for blowing leads in big games. I look for Brady to lead a Patriot comeback. The Giants do look good to cover against a 14 1/2 point spread. That being said I would like to see the Giants pull off the upset.
By MEB
December 29, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
Robert… I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there! Of course, not to make light of the tragic nature of the incident.
By Braveheart
December 29, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
effin eli manning.
congrats to sylvester croom - the fella bama should have hired instead of the pretty boy son of don.
its OK for you to think as DOB does, i always do, not 100% this time,
that was yogi-esque overlord.
By BossLady
December 29, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
Glavine will do what he originally did for Atlanta, bring a winning attitude. It will not matter if he gets the win or not he will give our team a chance to win. There are so many games that he took a loss but we were able to come from behind and get the win. See, he holds the other team to a minimum so our guys can comeback. I don’t need to know numbers or salaries, I know what I see and have witnessed from Glavine for many, many, many years. If you are a Braves fan you will know that Glavine’s unselfish play ethics is what is best for the team. He will take one for us any day if the offense does not show up and walk big hitters knowing his stats will suffer. His stubborn not giving in for his ego has saved the big runs. If all you see are numbers when you watch that is so “nerdy”. When we hold out breaths with two men on for Pujols and Ryan Howard, you’ll see Glavine protect the score rather than trying to prove he can get them. Not the same for Smoltz, Maddux, Hudson you can believe their egos will give up a three run homer. Oh yes, I am kissing up to Tommy!
By BossLady
December 29, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this
Oh yes, Tommy has a professional attitude toward baseball as would a CEO of a corporation. His poise and demeanor represents a distinguished gentleman. He takes the mound in a manner that his “Business Only”.
By uga-brave
December 30, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this
graveyard shift is in. bravesdave if you are out there chime in.
By uga-brave
December 30, 2007 1:26 AM | Link to this
the pats are going un. i personally love bellichik. the guy tells everyone come get us, and nobody can.
hey TUNA you never won nothing after bellichik left. it was always bad bill.
By uga-brave
December 30, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this
probably cant spell bellichik right but i think he is the best coach of all time. no manager or coach commands the same respect. 16-0 in the NFL is unbelivable.
i know the TUNA hates it.
By Braveheart
December 30, 2007 2:22 AM | Link to this
same old freaking giants. i still painfully remember that meltdown against the vikes in the playoffs in the 1997 season where the giants players were all fighting with each other. still also painfully remember that playoff game meltdown against the 49ers earlier this decade. also painfully remember jason sehorn getting burnt all over the field in the super bowl against the ravens. but at least i will always have the glory years of parcells, simms, and LT although I think I cursed out Simms every game he ever played in when i was a kid. loved me some Jeff Hostetler. it wasn’t until i watched dave brown, kent graham, danny kannell, kerry collins, and eli manning that i realized how good we had it with phil simms.
parcells has never won without belichick but belichick has certainly won without parcells. in the last 23 seasons, as a defensive coordinator and as a head coach, belichick has won 5 Super Bowls, appeared in 6 Super Bowls, appeared in 8 conference championship games, made the playoffs 13 times, had an undefeated season, and beat Parcells in the playoffs while Belichick was with the Browns and Parcells with the Pats. Quite remarkable.
tuna is an egomaniac so he probably does hate it.
By uga-brave
December 30, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this
well said braveheart.
By uga-brave
December 30, 2007 3:33 AM | Link to this
braveheart,
did not know you were a GIANTS fan. the great TUNA is a creation of the media. he is what he is. a big frekin BABY. just like roger clemens, loves the spotlight. how many times are you gonna retire.
well guess what belichik is about to do have all the hardware. and his players love him. never seen a better QB then brady. the pats are the best. sorry SHULA, they are the best.
By True Braves Fan
December 30, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
On Braves considering Mark Prior: Braves have 3, possibly 4 (depending on Hampton) veteran starters. Makes no sense to add another questionable starter and block the progress of our young arms to fill the 4 & 5 sponts. Also, here is the salary info on Prior: Mark Prior rhp 1 year/$1M (2008)
signed as a free agent 12/26/07 $4.5M in performance bonuses
1 year/$3.575M (2007) re-signed 1/07 (avoided arbitration, $3.875M-$3.4M) non-tendered (by Chicago Cubs) 12/12/07
performance bonuses: $0.15M each for 27 & 30 GS
1 year/$3.65M (2006) re-signed 1/06, avoided arbitration ($4M-$3.3M) award bonuses for MVP, Cy Young, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger & All Star selection
5 years/$10.5M (2002-06)
$4M signing bonus 02:$0.25M, 03:$0.65M, 04:$1.6M, 05:$2M, 06:$2M may earn additional $0.75M in bonuses in 2005
2003 All Star selection increased 2004-06 salaries by $0.5M/season additional $0.1M All Star bonus
Prior may void either of final 2 years (05-06) if he qualifies for arbitration after 2004 or 2005 seasons (exercised right to void final season (2006) of original contract 11/05 after qualifying for arbitration)
drafted 2001 (1-2), signed Major League contract 8/01 agent: John Boggs ML service: 5.131
By Lew
December 30, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Bill Parcells is also the reason that the Tampa Bay Bucs only have one Super Bowl win. Tony Dungee was released as head coach when Parcells agreed to take over the team. When he backed out after the fact, it cost the Bucs four draft choices (2 number ones and two number twos) to sign Chuckie Gruden. That was that. It had the same effect that the Herschel Walker to the Vikings deal had on the Vikes. No draft choices-no playoffs and Super Bowl. Many give those Cowboy Super Bowl victories to Jimmy Hairspray, but anyone with sense knows that when you get twelve players for one, you will have the horses. I could have won with Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman thanks to the Herschel trade.
By David O'Brien
December 30, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
uga-brave, they’re obviously a great team, but the Pats have to have three more wins in difficult games before they’ll be considered the best in history, at least according to every NFL analyst and reporter I’ve heard opine on the subject.
Think about it: You go 16-0, but then lose in the first round, or the second round to Indy, or even lose the Super Bowl — if that happens they’ll not be considered the best team of all time. Gotta win the Super Bowl, or maybe lose it in a close game because of an injury to Brady, something like that. Otherise, gotta win it all before folks will consider them the best team of all time.
You can lose a game during the regular season and then roll convincingly to the Super Bowl title and be considered the best team, but you can’t win them all during the regular season, then lose one when it counts most (playoffs,) and be considered the best. Just can’t. Not unless, as I said, you have a devastating injury or perhaps a freak play decides the outcome of the Super Bowl (something like the Immaculate Reception, for instance).
Other than those scenarios, Pats simply have to run the table now to be called the best of all time. If they do that, they will certainly be considered the greatest team by most longtime observers of the league, at least the ones I’ve heard discuss the possibility (including Ditka, who said last night he’d call them the best ever if they go 19-0).
By Overlord
December 30, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
I know it was not personal DOB, i know it is all clean sports debate and nothing else, at least with you.
Braveheart im not sure what yogi-esque means, sorry pal.
By Overlord
December 30, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
Signing Prior makes absolutely no sense. Cubs would be taking him if they saw any remote positive future with him.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 30, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
Lew , you are correct in saying the Herschel Walker trade was the catalyst that made a lot of the Cowboys success possible.
However , Jimmy Johnson was the brainchild behind that trade. He deserves the credit for winning back to back Super Bowls and for engineering the very trade that made it all possible.
Jimmy Johnson literally said to Jerry Jones : let me trade Herschel Walker and I’ll build you a championship team and he did just that.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Lew: Gotta disagree with your statement this morning about Parcells is the reason Tampa has only 1 Super Bowl win.
They did indeed trade those draft choices for Gruden but Dungy was going to be let go regardless of whom they brought in. It was widely reported that Tampa had plateaued with Dundy as coach, or at least Tampa thought.
So they traded 4 draft picks for Gruden. How many Super Bowls did Tampa have before Gruden? How many do they have WITH Gruden? Who just won their division in a “worst to first” scenario?
I think your comparison of the Herschel trade setting Minnesota back and the Gruden trade setting Tampa back isn’t comparable at all.
Besides, draft picks are a crap shoot. Case in point: Tom Brady, a 6th rounder vs. say, Rex Grossman, a 1st rounder.
I think Tampa’s recovered fine from their “franchise-demoralizing” deal for Gruden.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 30, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Hey , Dave O’Brien. whats your favorite place to watch a baseball game ? I’ve been to Fulton-County , Great American ballpark and the Metrodome. I don’t miss the Braves former (cookie cutter) home , the Reds home park is nice but nothing special. The Metrodome ? O dear God , baseball wasn’t meant to be played in a glad bag.
By David O'Brien
December 30, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
I like most of the new parks a lot, and as a fan Pittsburgh’s ballpark would have to be at the top along with Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Seattle and San Francisco (Pac Bell, AT&T or whatever they’re calling it now), San Diego and Dodger Stadium.
The pressbox is so high at Pittsburgh that it detracts, from a writer’s standpoint. But obviously not as a fan. Awesome park otherwise.
Those parks are outstanding, plus I also really like Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston (best dome or retractable domed stadium, unless you count Seattle’s open-sided retractable roof), Colorado, Philly, and Royals Stadium.
To tell you the truth, there are for more great parks today than bad parks. That’s completely reversed during the 14 years I’ve covered baseball. Used to be just a handful of really great parks, now there are only a handful of bad ones (Tampa, Florida, Shea, Metrodome immediately come to mind).
By Lew
December 30, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
TommyP-Sorry, Dude, but you’re wrong. They had not bottomed out with Dungy and many Bucs fans were highly p!$$ed that he was fired. They would have won the Super Bowl the next year with Dungy, as they had the exact same team the next year when Gruden led them to Glory. They had exactly the same defense that year that Dungy had and the same exact offense Gruden won with. My point was the several years AFTER their SB victory, when they fell off the face of the football world despite having the same ProBowl defense. They were unable to bring in the offensive pieces they needed to continue their run and eventually lost Sapp, Lynch and a couple other defensive pieces. The offense never really did recover until this year, though I’m still stunned they’ve done so well despite the loss of Cadillac Williams.
Those four draft choices killed them. And it WAS Parcell’s fault. Dungy was released specifically because Parcells had agreed to take over. He screwed them-for the SECOND time!!! Dungy was and still is the best Coach Tampa Bay ever had. Believe me, I know whereof I speak. I was a Bucs fan throughout their fourteen consecutive losing seasons and actually worked doing artwork for the team. I remember Sam Wyche, Richard Williams and Ray Perkins in all of their monumental futility. We couldn’t win with Steve Young, Testeverde OR Chris Chandler.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 30, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this
Cool , O’Brien. Somehow , we always end up taking the family vacation around Christmas. One of these days I’ll get back home during the summer and take in a game or two at Turner field. But , the Braves need to do something with the name. Somehow , Henry Aaron Field House has a nice ring to it.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
Lew: I’m sure many Tampa fans WERE p*ssed that Dungy was fired. That doesn’t dismiss the fact that Dungy was on the hot seat not only for the year he was fired but for the year before as well. And I’m not saying the firing was just….but it was inevitable.
Dungy was fired because they were a “one and done” playoff team. They never went far at all in the playoffs.
The second reason he was fired was because his offenses were anemic.
Jon Gruden came with the idea that Tampa’s defense would be fine with the Dungy proteges running it and Gruden running the offense.
I would imagine that Buc fans (perhaps not including you) wouldn’t be TOO ticked at the Gruden deal.
You can’t compare the Herschel deal to the Gruden deal….really. There’s no comparison.
If you want to talk crippling, let’s talk the other side of that deal. What has Oakland done since Gruden left?
By Savannah Guy
December 30, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
“90% of the game is mental, the other half is physical.”
But its OK for you to think as DOB does, i always do, not 100% this time, thats all….Braveheart im not sure what yogi-esque means, sorry pal.
The first is a Yogiism or considered Yogi-esque, the second an Overlordism. But then, you didn’t really say everything that you said.
By Lew
December 30, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
TommyP-Excuse me? You must have them confused with the Braves. Did they not barely lose the NFC Championship game a year or so before the SB win? Can’t go much further in the playoffs than that. I still contend, and most TB fans will surely concur-They would have won that SB with Dungy, as the team was still his team and not anything Gruden constructed. The ownership was and idiot for firing him. The lost draft choices certainly DID cost them for several years after. Without going downstairs and actually checking, seems to me that in seven seasons since Gruden took over, he has had losing seasons just as often as winning ones. They have done exactly what the Steve Bartkowski Falcons did in the early 80’s-great season, lousy season and repeat formula. What this indicates to me is that they are an average team that excells when the schedule is easy and does poorly the next year when the schedule gets tougher due to their better record. Such was NOT the case with Dungy. He was consistently a winner in TB-the first and ONLY coach to be that good, year after year. His only sin was not winning that NFC Championship game. Yes, the fans were p!$$ed. The only reason he was fired was because Tuna was all lined up to take his place. They had a verbal committment he renegged on. They fired Tony and the Tuna tanked-which he had done before when they hired TD. Cost them two number one choices and two number two-and eventually their GM, Sapp, Lynch, Donnie Abraham and a good bit of their defense. Seems to me that since he left, the Colts are a perennial playoff team and TD still has a SB victory. Gruden-Not so much since Dungy’s team is gone.
By Overlord
December 30, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Could somebody refresh my mind and tell me where is orel hershiser? (as pitching coach i mean)
By McFann
December 30, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew!! Haven’t heard from you in a while!
By Overlord
December 30, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Did you know???:
Tim Hudson had a higher OPS in 2007 than Woodward, Craig Wilson and Orr.
By mo in the boonies
December 30, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
uga I think Belicheck is a great coach also, but he is such a grouch, I wondered to my spouse last night if Belicheck was married, spouse replied, probably divorced…a couple times. No woman could live with him. :-)
Braveheart I didn’t think the Giants played that bad, just one break at the end of the game with the onside kick, and they would have scored again. As it was, the score was close enough to make the Patriots hold their breath for a while at the end.
Re: Brady, I was thinking, why didn’t Brady play that great when he was at Michigan? Then I answered my own question…different coaching. And he wasn’t allowed to pass that much there. Both Michigan and Ohio State have always been the “five yards and a cloud of dust” teams. Hopefully that will change next year for Michigan.
DOB Immaculate Reception
I wanted to watch the Packers game today, but it is blacked out in our area, just because of the Lions. Like the whole state of Michigan could go to the game anyway. Ya, we can all drive to Wisconsin to see the game. If it was in Detroit it would be more probable.
McFann Too bad our spell check doesn’t cover proper names huh?
Gil My not spelling things correctly just happens to be one of my pet peeves… not nit picky about others making mistakes, just myself
By Bill
December 30, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
GO BRAVES!!
By Braveheart
December 30, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
I didn’t think the Giants played that bad, just one break at the end of the game with the onside kick, and they would have scored again. As it was, the score was close enough to make the Patriots hold their breath for a while at the end.
Mo in the Boonies Clearly, you are not a Giants fan. Yeah, you could say they played valiantly and all that and earned themselves a badge of courage, blah, blah, blah. They always do that. And you always know as a Giants fan they will find a way to meltdown and blow it. They went toe to toe with one of the greatest teams but, as Parcells would have said if he was coaching the Giants last night, so what, am I gonna wake up in the morning, read the standings, and see a check for moral victories.
By Overlord
December 30, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
Talk about Tim Hudsons inconsistency:
7.0+ IP——— at least 3 times per month except in august when he did it just twice.
5.0- IP ——- once a month expect april when he never did that.
If you take away that 1 bad outing he has every month, all his monthly ERAs are equal or below 3.54. That sound pretty consistent to me. Well except if you compare it with his cy young award winning april.
By McFann
December 30, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure I know what you mean, mo.
By Braveheart
December 30, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
ugabrave I don’t really agree with you that Parcells is a media creation. When he got to the Giants, they stunk. He brought them to two Super Bowls in 7 years. When he got to the Pats, they were sorry. He had them in a Super Bowl in 4 years. When he got to the Jets, they were a trainwreck. He had them in a conference championship in his second season. The Cowboys were pretty bad when he got there. He brought them to the playoffs twice and they look like they should go to the Super Bowl this year.
Relatively speaking, his time in Dallas was probably his biggest failure. This was going on while Belichick was winning Super Bowls.
But part of the coaching genius of Parcells is (1) He’s a master motivator of his players; and (2) He has an eye for coaching talent and is unafraid to surround himself with coaches who may be more brilliant football minds than himself - so long as they will all work together as a unit with a shared idea of how things should be done.
Parcells is alot like Bobby Cox in that regard. Cox was never afraid to surround himself with Jimy Williams, Ned Yost, Leo Mazzone, Fredi Gonzalez, Don Baylor, and so on. I think you would also have to include John Schuerholz amongst that group Cox was willing to surround himself with. Cox was even willing to step down as a GM and move down to manager so that Ted could hire Scheurholz.
Parcells was somewhat handicapped during his time in Dallas and Belichick greatly benefitted because Belichick basically stole alot of the coaching infrastructure, family and culture Parcells had developed over the years. Belichick, Crennell, Weis, Pioli, Mangini, Pepper Johnson, Randy Melvin had all worked for Parcells and had been a big part of Parcells success.
But now they were with Belichick in New England and Parcells had to somewhat start over from scratch and reach out to extended members of his coaching family and bring in new guys like Sean Payton and develop them.
What happened with Parcells in Dallas may not be unlike what is going on with Cox right now. The Cox coaching family has become somewhat fractured because those guys have gotten managerial jobs and the like and I think the new guys he is surrounding himself with may be a cut below the old trusted guys.
Since I’m being selfish and boring people with talk of the New York Giants, how about the coaching staff of the Giants in the 1950s that had Vince Lombardi as the offensive coordinatory and Tom Landry as the defensive coordinator. I dunno. That sounds like a pretty darn good coaching staff. I’m not sure though.
By mo in the boonies
December 30, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
McFann I meant, if I clicked on Spell Check on my computer, it would be nice if it would tell me I had mis-spelled Maddux. Unfortunately it doesn’t do names. (also doesn’t correct my grammar) :-)
Braveheart No I’m not a Giants fan, as a matter of fact, I watched the first half of the Penn State game, and the last half of the Giant/Pat game. I prefer College football to Pro. I do like to check on Mrs. Mannings little boy Eli though, once in a while.
By McFann
December 30, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Good point, mo. Yeah, that dumb spell checker thinks almost all names are misspelled.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Lew: First off, paragraphs are your friend. LOL Tough read without them.
Let’s start with Indy: They were a “playoff team” before Dungy arrived, making the post-season 2 of the previous 3 years. (Mora didn’t make it the last year and was then fired) Because of Peyton Manning, the Colts have been a playoff team.
Dungy with Tampa: Losing record first year but a strong finish brought tons of optimism.
Year 2 was a playoff season with year 3 being an 8-8 campaign followed by the championship loss in year 4.
His last 2 years saw the team with declining records and first round losses in each of the seasons.
Maybe you forgot all of the scrutiny that was a national story but Dungy was on the hot seat the year before he got fired.
Would the Bucs have won the Super Bowl with Dungy? Nobody will ever know but the trend certainly didn’t appear to show that. Dungy’s offenses were not very good. That’s why they brought in Gruden. And if you didn’t see a change in the Tampa offense WITH Gruden, well, there’s not much to debate.
The demise of Tampa aligns more along the reason for the demise of the Steel Curtain and the great Cowboy teams: age. That Tampa defense started getting old and quick.
So you give Dungy all the credit for drafting those players in Tampa? I’m asking ‘cause I don’t know the authority he had in player selection. I always thought McKay was given 100% credit for those drafts.
In Indy, there’s no question who has made the selections: Bill Polian, a Hall of Famer in waiting.
By Jeff R
December 30, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
My hope continues to be that Smoltz and Glavine deliver the innings and wins that everyone seems to expect, but it is not a given. Athletes over forty can show slippage fairly dramatically from one season to the next. Wren is betting that these guys have enough gas left in their tanks to deliver one more time. That may well prove true, but that’s no sure bet. If both perform - great. But if either or both slide, oh, well.
The Braves need more good young arms in the pipeline. Management did an excellent job at developing position players, but, somehow, let pitcher development fall behind. Chances are very good that Glavine is a one-year signing; Smoltz might not have more than a couple of seasons left in his arm. What then? Where’s the young talent to replace them? Charlie Morton? Who else is going to be ready in the next season or two?
By McFann
December 30, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
Jeff R
I don’t hope that Smoltz and Glavine deliver the wins and innings that everyone expects. I know some people who think their finished, washed-up, and should stick to golf.
You are so correct. The Braves need more young pitchers—GOOD young pitchers. We’ve go that guy, what’s his name…Ho-Ho? But like I said, we need good young pitchers.
By McFann
December 30, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
Mo’s correct. Grammar-checker would be the GREATEST!! : )
By TennesseePaul
December 30, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this
Sheeesh. What a trip. Got back to the LB and I now can finally relax. The High Musuem was incredible. Worth every discounted penny I saved by purchasing tickets on-line.
DOB: Love this blog. Great topic. It’s pleasing to hear that Maddux is now getting the respect over Clemens. And the Smoltz talk… ain’t nothin’ wrong with that. Another point on Smoltz, he’s had only 1 full season in his 18 full seasons in his career with an ERA over 4. And that was a 4.14. Maddux is on a string of 4 straight season with an ERA over 4. Glavine also has 4 seasons with a 4+ ERA. All of them are great in a unique and special way. I’ll never doubt Smoltz’s ability to get it done. The only thing that pops into my head is, he’s got to retire sometime. At 40+ that’s sooner than latter. But, who knows? Ryan pitched for next to forever. Perhaps Smoltz squeezes 7 or 8 more seasons out of his arm. That’d put him close to 300 wins. Especially if he keeps pitching like he does.
DAP: Saw your post on the other page. I’d agree, Hudson, Smoltz, James isn’t a bad trio. But the “rumors” or “talk” of trading James for Stop Gap or Lefty Specialist burn me up. Hudson, Smoltz, and rookies doesn’t sound too promising. Entertaining, exciting to watch, yes, but not promising for a World Title. If James is dealt for such a player I will be extremely disappointed. Payne and Braveheart covered it well on the last blog with the “undervalue” talks of James. The kid is goood. His bad season was league average. Davies and HoRam struggled to get close to League Average while in Atlanta and they received way more time than James has served. I hope he sticks around.
My previous posts are not Dooms-Day posts. But c’est la vie. Just mis-opportunities. Not all propects fulfill their potential. Veteran pitching will be needed and it will cost something. It certainly won’t be any cheaper in the future. Like I’ve said many times this winter, the Braves should challenge for the Division Title. It should be fun to watch once the games get going.
DOB: So you took a plane? I don’t know if you beat my rental or not. We were flyin’! I think it had a weed-eater motor for an engine. Just a beast I tells ya.
By Lew
December 30, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
TommyP-The National media rarely knows what is really happening. I was there with the local media-TV, Radio and print, as well as in the middle of the fans.
What we as fans realized (and let’s not forget that even with the pitiful teams they had fielded for fourteen straight losing seasons, many of them only two wins-still packed 45,000 butts in the seats on a weekly basis) was that Tony Dungy was the first and only coach they ever had who actually built a perennial winner.
You as an outsider may have looked at them as having a declining record, but we damn well were thrilled to have a team with a winning record that was even making the playoffs. Dungy was only a step lower on the love list from God, himself in Tampa Bay. Old Malcolm Glazier went against the desires of most of the area when he dumped Dungy.
Hell yes, TD would have won the Super Bowl had he stayed. Look at the game itself-Defense-how many turnovers did they have? I’ll tell you this, too. The players won that game for Dungy and not Gruden. Ask Warren Sapp. ASk Derrick Brooks and Rhonde Barber. They have all sad so since then. They were all highly upset that Dungy was let go and were quite vocal about it.
Gruden was not even the Bucs first choice-Tuna was. They wanted Tuna several years before, but he screwed them then, too. Dungy was their second choice then. If there were any inevitability in his firing, it was from the Glazer family and not the Denizens of the Bay area-and it cost us four draft choices because of Old Malcolm’s mistake.
Oh-One more thing-I checked and Gruden, in six seasons with the Bucs, has three winning seasons and three pretty bad losing years-two more than Dungy had in his entire tenure. Yes, TD went to a good team, but he took a terrible team in Tampa Bay and made them a very good one. Let me know when Gruden does the same-somewhere.
By Metropolitan Man
December 30, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
Yahoo Sports 2008 predictions:
Alex Rodriguez: I resolve not to cheat on my wife with strippers who look like they wear acid-washed jeans, opt out of my contract in the middle of the World Series, gag in the playoffs again, play slum lord to the disenfranchised and then act contrite during a softball Katie Couric interview. In other words, I resolve to not be myself.
Paul Byrd: I resolve to find a new dentist, one that recognizes the difference between tooth decay and moral decay.
MORE NEW YEAR’S RESOLUTIONS • Boxing
• College basketball and football
• Fantasy football
• Mixed Martial Arts
• NASCAR
• NBA
• NFL
• NHL
• Soccer
Joe Torre: I resolve to rip the Yankee organization only in a grandfatherly tone, because any other way would seem catty.
Tom Lasorda: I resolve to stay away from those naughty ho, ho, ho’s after doing the Santa Lasorda routine at Dodger Stadium holiday party.
Bobby Cox: I resolve to get ejected for all the right reasons, which include balls and strikes, bad calls on the bases, close plays at the plate, umpires breathing wrong, butterflies flapping their wings, Joe Morgan mispronouncing a name, a keyboard being used somewhere in America and photosynthesis occurring.
George Mitchell: I resolve to get a shipment of HGH for those damn wrinkles in my forehead.
Kirk Radomski: I resolve to write a book that refutes Jose Canseco’s assertion. I’ll call it “Why Steroids Don’t Work: The Story of Josias Manzanillo, Phil Hiatt, Cody McKay, Adam Piatt, Adam Riggs, Bart Miadich and Nook Logan.”
Brian McNamee: It’s a good thing I’m not going to jail, because I resolve to no longer stick objects in men’s butts.
Roger Clemens: I resolve to find the real killers.
Andy Pettitte: I resolve to pitch Hallmark a whole new line of you-screwed-your-best-friend cards.
Jim Bowden: I resolve to revolutionize scouting by targeting men on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list. Heard Whitey Bulger’s got a sick gyroball.
Elijah Dukes: I resolve to commit only misdemeanors.
Hank Steinbrenner: I resolve to rehire George Costanza. He would get the Santana trade done.
Barry Bonds: I resolve to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, and, big man, I hope you can help me like steroids did.
Jonathan Papelbon: I resolve to treat my dog to obedience lessons and myself to dance lessons.
Paul Lo Duca: I resolve to use personal stationery for all future steroid purchases.
Scott Boras: I resolve to resume imbibing in the blood of virgins to regain my power.
Kosuke F*******: I resolve to greet opposing fans with a middle finger when they intentionally mangle my last name.
Willie Randolph: I resolve to win the National League East.
Jimmy Rollins: I resolve to make Willie Randolph look like a fool again.
Jeffrey Loria: I resolve to legally change my name to Ebenezer Scrooge.
Gary Matthews Jr., Jose Guillen, Rick Ankiel, Troy Glaus, Jerry Hairston Jr. and 80 or so others: We resolve to just say no to drugs. And by no, we mean no, not in that vein, in this one.
Jose Offerman: I resolve to bat with a scythe, just in case a pitcher tries to throw at me again.
Brett Myers: I resolve to fight children, elderly women, dwarves, cancer patients, drunks and all other comers, seeing as I’ve already punched my wife in the face and threatened a sportswriter.
Tony La Russa: I resolve to learn the alphabet.
Alyssa Milano: I resolve to not date another ballplayer.
Brad Penny, Barry Zito, Russell Martin, Carl Pavano: We resolve not to date Alyssa Milano again.
Mike Hargrove: I resolve to reveal the true reason I left Seattle in the middle of such a great season. I was afraid Mariner Moose would go after me next.
Rafael Palmeiro: I resolve to “explain myself.”
Rep. Henry Waxman: I resolve, as chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform, to solve only the United States’ true problems, such as the subprime mortgage mess, the impending Social Security crisis and, of course, that nation-bending, economy-crushing, era-defining scourge, steroids.
Bud Selig: I resolve to do the right thing this time – follow Jason Tyner every game as he inches closer to hitting the second home run of his 1,356-at-bat career.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Lew: Well, at least we agree he was on the hot seat for a team that appeared to have plateaued under him. I sure do remember reading local media, however, with the same questions.
Never very bright to say “If so and so would’ve stayed, they would’ve won the Super Bowl.” You sound like these Bobby Cox bashers. Dungy didn’t win a Super Bowl with Tampa and the record was in decline, Lew. Why are you arguing facts? The offense under Dungy was the sore spot, not the defense. They had a championship defense and a porous offense.
They get Gruden and suddenly they’re able to capitalize on the turnovers that the defense created. They had tons of turnovers in that Super Bowl but I’m pretty sure that offense still did a good job.
They scored a lot more than they ever did in the playoffs under Gruden, not Dungy. You HAVE to acknowledge that the offense was much better under Dungy.
Gruden’s losing years at Tampa have some part to do with his friction with McKay. They didn’t see eye to eye on personnel selection.
I’d be interested to see what Gruden’s record is with his current GM (former Oakland guy, I believe).
Nobody’s arguing the job that Dungy did in creating a winning tradition at Tampa. The initial argument was your comparison of the Herschel trade with the Gruden trade. NO COMPARISON.
The Herschel trade could be compared to the Babe Ruth trade from Boston to New York. THAT set a franchise back.
The Gruden trade? Won Tampa it’s only Super Bowl.
You ended your last post with, “Let me know when Gruden does the same-somewhere.” You were referring to a coach taking a terrible team to a very good one like Dungy did.
Do a little research on Oakland pre-Gruden. They were HORRIBLE. Gruden resurrected them, hence the high cost of compensation that was demanded in the trade.
Remember, the team that Gruden beat in the Super Bowl was the team that he coached. So whatever credit you give to Dungy for the Tampa Super Bowl team you have to give to Gruden for the Oakland Super Bowl team. In other words, Gruden took two teams to a Super Bowl in the same year. That’s your logic, not mine. LOL
Finally, it’s common knowledge that the Tampa defenders talked about how they knew everything that Oakland was going to do on offense thanks to Gruden.
Gruden’s Super Bowl QB: Brad Johnson. Dungy’s Super Bowl QB: Peyton Manning.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
Edit alert: I meant to say, “You HAVE to admit that the Tampa offense was much better under GRUDEN.”
Damn kegerator.
By McFann
December 30, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
Looks like some people around here aren’t very busy.
C’mon, MetroMan, Bobby doesn’t get ejected over butterflies.
By TommyP
December 30, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
Edit alert: I meant to say, “You HAVE to admit that the Tampa offense was much better under GRUDEN.”
Damn kegerator.
By Metropolitan Man
December 30, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
McFann: Not only does he get ejected over butterflies, he also gets ejected for not switching to Geiko!!!
By ed
December 30, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this
off topic and sorry..but hilarious jd drew commentary below. you get to vote on how awful he was!
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/30/a-look-back-jd-drew-year-1/
By Metropolitan Man
December 30, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/share.do?invite=lETrJJPyPhzH8Y8Lh0s8&shareName=MMS&messageState=RETRIEVED
By Greg in TN
December 30, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
Evening lads and lasses, and a happy New Year’s Eve eve to everyone…
Been quite busy with Mrs. Greg in TN and the family during Christmas, but its always comforting to know that baseball is always the primary language of the Braves/MIB blog with BBQ, Music and more also on the minds of denizens near and far and that I can talk baseball with friends after a few clicks of the mouse. Holy Cornelia, indeed.
Mad Dog certainly deserves consideration in terms of being the best pitcher during the last 25 years even without the Mitchell report naming Clemens IMO. Maddux was the master of location and changing speeds and I’ve seen him make as many batters look silly with a tailing fastball or a change up as Clemens did with a light’s out fastball.
Certainly Maddux didn’t come close to fanning 20 in a game, however I believe that in the grand scheme of things a strikeout and a weak grounder to second both count as outs.
DOB, time will tell whether Bill James will be right or not with his projections in terms of Smoltz. He’s done everything the organization has asked of him and is a warrior, much like Chipper. Both are guaranteed a warm place in this Braves fan’s heart and their legacy is secure in this little corner of Dixie.
I am saddened today to hear of Jim Beauchamp’s passing on Christmas Day due to leukemia. It’s tough to lose a good baseball man, but it’s even tougher to lose a good person. He will certainly be missed. My condolences on his loss.
By semiballcoach
December 30, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
haven’t heard “plateaued” since the falcpons fired leeman bennett….
By David O'Brien
December 30, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
Have a good, safe New Year’s Eve, folks. No driving and drinking; it can ruin your life or someone else’s. Ask Leyritz….
We’re over here in Charleston, just got back to the hotel in the historic district. Had some good shrimp and grits tonight.
James Madison U basketball team was checking into the hotel when we were. They played Bobby Cremins’ boys tonight at College of Charleston.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 31, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
DOB, have you ever listened to the Little Country Giants? Bryan may have talked about them on here in the past. they’re right up your alley — country/bluegrass/americana whose influences listed on their myspace page include gillian welch, neil young, loretta lynn, hank wiliams, gram parsons, among many other great bands from that genre.
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
Roll Tide!
By Random
December 31, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
Braveheart: So, Cox was not stupid for sticking with Andruw as the cleanup hitter as long as he did. Until Tex arrived, his hands were tied by the nonexistent alternatives to bat cleanup.
First-off, I’ll admit that we both have the advantage of hindsight over Cox, though it’s not necessarily always 20/20 as some would like to believe.
And I think your approach – a month by month analysis of AJ’s performance – is much fairer to Cox than mine was (final, full-season stats), in that it better replicates the actual info Cox had to work with at the time. (Your monthly stats would be even better if they were accompanied by cumulative-to-date totals.)
However, I agree with DAP that the better stats to compare would be BA (or SLG, or OPS) with Runners in Scoring Position. I also agree with him that Francoeur would have been a better option from June on (or until Tex, assuming the Braves were still as desperate under these hypotheticals as they were in real life), concurring with you that AJ deserved at least two months’ worth of confidence from Cox. But also Diaz or McCann would have been a better option for clean-up from June on.
PS: I’ve never said that Cox was stupid.
By Bill
December 31, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this
DOB, I’m new to the posting here but I’ve been reading your blog’s for sometime and I’d just like to thank you for all that you do. This is the best place to read about the BRAVES!!
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this
Looks like Mike Lupica is trying to get the Mets to steal away Boog: If I were the people making the decision for the Mets about who should work with Howie Rose on radio next season, the star search would end with a great young guy named Jon Schiambi, whom I first heard doing Marlins games.
Hope the Braves don’t let that happen. If I can’t have Skip & Pete everyday, I’ll definitely take Boog.
Does Omar thinks Boog is named Juan? Thinks Boog can eat some innings? Righty of lefty?
How funny would it be, after all of the threats from Mets fans about signing and trading for every player on the market, if their major offseason acquisition is Boog?
I don’t wanna see Boog go but since he is in demand, maybe the Braves need to trade Boog for Stopgap.
Don’t know why Lupica thinks the Mets need Boog though. The search for a star to work with Howie Rose on the radio should begin and end with David Wright.
Hell, what is the need for Howie Rose? David Wright could work that booth himself and man third base at the same time. He’ll even have a better corny catch phrase than put that one in the book.
By Jared
December 31, 2007 2:05 AM | Link to this
driving and drinking; it can ruin your life or someone else’s
But drinking while driving is still legal in Mississippi….
(Not to be confused with drunk driving)
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 2:52 AM | Link to this
Random I still think that if Frenchy and McCann could not protect Andruw, (and his 39 walks in 222 at bats with RISP suggest just that - in fact, his problem was that he should have walked 60, 70 times instead of swinging so bad at so many bad pitches), how the heck were Frenchy or McCann gonna protect Chipper as the #3 hitter?
If anyone was gonna bat fourth, I thought maybe it should have been KJ or Diaz until Tex arrived. Or what really should have happened until Tex arrived and until Willie cooled off was that the lineup should have been Willie, Yunel/KJ, Edgar, Chipper, Andruw, Frenchy, McCann, Thorman
But whatever at this point, it’s all just speculation on our part and none of us are 100% correct and will never have any way of knowing.
But it is fun to get into p!ssing matches with each about it anyway
By nOLIE
December 31, 2007 6:04 AM | Link to this
http://www.Someone was touting McLouth. I thought they might like to know that he shows up pretty well in the newest Bill James Handbook.
By Random
December 31, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this
Braveheart:
Fun, indeed!
I was also leaning toward Diaz over JF or BM, but I’d like to crunch the numbers. May I ask you where I mighht find RISP stats (BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, etc)? Must one subscribe (ie, pay) for such info? (Or do you go through individual boxscores as the season progresses, and keep your own stats?)
Thanks — MX/HNY!
By 3trees
December 31, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Really strong stuff in the blog lead, DOB. I enjoyed the football banter too. A happy, prosperous and peaceful year to you all.
Go Braves!
By ssiscribe
December 31, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Top of the morning, denizens, on a foggy and chilly morning along the southern rim of the capital city.
Happy New Year wishes to one and all. If you sip tonight, stay where you be or appoint a sober somebody to drive.
Spent the past three days visiting family out of state. Good times, just shutting things down for a spell and relaxing. Back at it today, though, at least until mid-afternoon or so.
FanFest next weekend. Should be a lot of fun, and a lot warmer and drier than years past at Turner Field. Moving that thing to the World Congress Center is a great idea. Looking forward to getting there with the kiddies and having fun, as we kick-start the countdown to Lake Buena Vista.
A safe and fun Eve to all, and here’s to 2008 and what it will bring to the hometown nine and its legions of fans.
Selah.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By nOLIE
December 31, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
May I ask you where I mighht find RISP stats (BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, etc)? Must one subscribe (ie, pay) for such info? (Or do you go through individual boxscores as the season progresses, and keep your own stats?)
Thanks — MX/HNY!Random
Both ESPN & BaseballReference.com have excellent free stat breakdowns under the ‘splits’ section of a player’s page.
By McFann
December 31, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
…Frenchy and McCann could not protect Andruw…
Oh brother. Here we go again. What do you mean they “could not protect Andruw”? Please tell so I can take you up on that Mr. King of the Cuss Words.
BTW, How insulting to say McCann should have hit in front of Thorman and behind Andruw!! Andruw should have bat tenth!!
By McFann
December 31, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Random
You can find stats like that on atlantabraves.com. Just click on the spot near the top of the page that says “stats.” Then click on the player you want to look over, and on his page, click where it says “splits.” I think you’ll be able to take it from there. Hopefully that makes sense.
By nOLIE
December 31, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Well, that link didn’t get it done. McLouth in James Hardbook
By cricket
December 31, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
I think we have to remember that McCann was playing hurt for a long period of time this season. His numbers were pretty good last year and if fit, he should be able to come close to that in next season. Also, if Thorman has to bat, personally I would bat any pitcher before him.
By McFann
December 31, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
Good point, Cricket. But be careful, Mini Braveheart might tear into you about how McCann was being selfish and should’ve taken more days off, when everyone knows that isn’t true. But I don’t want to get into a big thing about unless Mini Braveheart starts acting up again.
By James
December 31, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
So, WHEN ARE THE BRAVES GONNA SIGN TEX???!!! I mean, if we cant sign him before the trade deadline this upcoming season, shouldnt we trade him for a ton of prospects with a lot more talent than we gave up?
By Ramblin Wrecker
December 31, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
I know I’m a bit late in the whole who was more dominant, Maddux-Pedro-Randy Johnson, but I agree with DOB. Maddux was the more dominant pitcher of the last 25 years once you begin to question Roger Clemens’ legitimacy. I think that just like with HR’s, most baseball fans are seduced by strikeouts, and they are an effective indicator of dominance. But if you take the best consecutive 8 seasons of each of these pitchers, you’ll see that Maddux won as many games and had a lower ERA than either Pedro or Randy. The seasons I looked at were Maddux 1991-1998, Pedro 1996-2003 and RJ 1995-2002. I DID NOT skip over any injury seasons for Pedro or RJ, because to me that is also a factor. If you’re not on the mound, you are not dominant. Maddux went 142-64 with a 2.32 ERA over those 8 seasons. Pedro 131-46 with a 2.40 ERA. RJ 143-44 with 2.61 ERA. Maddux pitched in more games and more innings than the other two. And then when you begin to stretch beyond these best 8 season windows, you begin to see that Maddux was consistent throughout his career in addition to being dominant in his prime. To me Maddux is the guy to point to and say “best pitcher in the last 25 years with no questions about how he did it”. That isn’t to say Pedro or RJ were not dominant, but they had too many injuries and spent too much time watching while Maddux was racking up the wins. What’s more amazing to me, is that he did so much of his damage by ALLOWING contact, instead of avoiding it. And to me that speaks to why guys like RJ, Pedro and even Smoltz have had injury trouble. Because strikeouts require a minimum of three pitches per batter to make happen, and more often than not in reality it takes 6-8 pitches to strike a batter out. Meanwhile, crafty ole Maddux is getting 1, 2 or 3 pitch outs by forcing weak grounders back to the mound or to the infield. So he was dominant and healthy.
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
What do you mean they “could not protect Andruw”?
McFann, seriously, maybe if you stopped concerning yourself with frivolous things such as cussing, spelling, grammar, capitalization, manners, and, as Scoots said, throwing blog smooches to McCann, you could further the baseball conversation along. DAP & Random are throwing me logical and factual rebuttals. You, on the other hand, continue to fail to do so.
By Lew
December 31, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Not sure anyone could protect a batter that insisted on swinging at pitches he knew he never could hit or was unwilling to make changes so he didn’t break his ankle on the backswing. Not really someone’s job to do that except the hitting coach and that particular player.
By ncscoots
December 31, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
McCann has had one great year and one mediocre year, and, as yet, none of us know which was the fluke. IMO, he’s somewhere in the middle, and .300/20/80 in 135 games would be terrific production for a guy at his position.
Asking more of him would be optimistic in the extreme.
By Lew
December 31, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
The point of a player hitting behind the cleanup hitter is so the CUH gets better pitches to hit. Why should a pitcher throw Andruw a good pitch when they know he will swing at an unhittable pitch? It never was a matter of protection with Andruw-it was his own susceptibility to lousy pitches.
By McFann
December 31, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, I know for a fact that you can’t blame Andruw’s lack of production on those who bat behind him. Sure, if he’s got some real bad hitter behind him, the pitcher’s aren’t going to pitch to Andruw. But the thing is, nobody on our team was worse than AJ, ‘sept maybe Throman.
Keep in mind that 2006 was my first full year as a big time baseball lover, so no, I’m not an expert. I was simply asking you why you said that. You obviously can’t give me an answer or you would have done that instead of being such a smart aleck. I take you statement to mean that because he had either Jeff or Brian behind him, pitchers weren’t giving AJ anything to hit. Well, you said that McCann and Francoeur aren’t fully mature, so wouldn’t that explain why pitchers would rather pitch to them? You keep changing you stance on this. You say they shouldn’t bat clean-up ‘cause their not mature enough, yet you think they should be completely able of protecting the clean-up hitter. That’s two completely different things, I realize, but I just fail to see your logic. Maybe you’ll explain, but maybe you’ll continue to throw your little round about answers at me. It’s time for the Duck of the Day, people!!
By McFann
December 31, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
Well said, Lew. Well said. It was Andruw’s fault that the pitchers threw him cruddy pitches, not the guy behind him.
ncscoots
If McCann hit .300 next year, I’d be happy. You’re correct in saying that we don’t know which was the fluke. Sad to say, it could have been ‘06. He never hit above .300 in any of his minor league seasons. But we’ll see. Before he got hurt in ‘07, he was hittin’ the same way he did in ‘06. But I don’t want to get “cocky”. It always comes back to haunt me. Try the day McCann got hurt, for example…
By David O'Brien
December 31, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
Bill, thanks much….
I’d hate to see Boog go, because I think he’s an up-and-coming standout in broadcasting. But a Mets offer would be hard to turn down for a NY boy like him. He’s still got a condo in Manhattan (and a place in Buckhead).
Good dude. Let’s hope local folks try to keep him.
By Laurance Maney
December 31, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Pitching “dominance” is really not the best measure of a career. Sure Pedro and RJ were great but the fact that Maddux is still out there at his age throwing 85 mph and geting people out seems more of a measure. As far as Clemens is concerned, who really cares? He’s a disgrace. I think I would have rather gone to the grave before seeing him pass Spahn’s 367 victories, still the most in the live-ball era. But I don’t think even Warren would have been bothered if Maddux breaks his record. No one, however, will ever pass Spahn’s complete game record of 380+.
By ncscoots
December 31, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Because strikeouts require a minimum of three pitches per batter to make happen, and more often than not in reality it takes 6-8 pitches to strike a batter out. Meanwhile, crafty ole Maddux is getting 1, 2 or 3 pitch outs…
That’s only one of the reasons I’ve recently become enamored of the K/100 stat (strikeouts per 100 pitches), moreso than K/9 (strikeouts per 9 ininngs pitched).
And, for inquiring minds, yes, Smoltz was among the leaders in K/100 last year, as I remember.
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
i just hope that if boog goes they dont replace him with bob rathman. the guy was terrible.
By DonCoburleone
December 31, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
“He’s expected to pitch like a good No. 3 starter, and give the Braves 10-13 wins and, more importantly, 190-200 innings. They’d be pleased with that, and he’d certainly be worth the $8 mill investment if he delivers that.”
Don’t forget DOB, not only is it $8mil, but it’s also the Number 18 pick overall in this years draft (which goes to our biggest rival!)…
By DonCoburleone
December 31, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
DOB I’m sure you’ve had to answer this question before, but would you just give me a yes or no in regards to the Hall of Fame for the following players:
Jim Rice
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Jack Morris
Goose Gossage
Don Mattingly
Tim Raines
Personally, I say definately yes to Bert Blyleven, a probably for Tim Raines, and a definate NO for everybody else…
By McFann
December 31, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
Where’d all this talk about Boog leaving come from?! Dang, that would stink!! And uga’s correct. Bob was terrible!!
By Overlord
December 31, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Does anyone knows when 24s season 7 is coming?
By Shaun
December 31, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
McFann, the good thing is McCann is a catcher. He doesn’t have to be as good as he was in ‘06 in order to be better than most of the catchers he’s going to go against.
By Shaun
December 31, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone, Jerry Crasnick of espn.com wrote this last week concerning Blyleven’s candidacy:
Rich Lederer, a baseball analyst and historian, studied Blyleven’s career and estimates that if he had received even league-average run support, his record would be closer to 313-224 than his 287-250.
“I don’t think people have taken the time to look at the statistics closely enough to appreciate how dominant he was,” Lederer said. “If he had won 13 more games, I don’t think we’d even be having this discussion right now.”
By Wayne in Utah
December 31, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
DonC Remember, it was 8 million and the draft choice for 10-15 wins and 180-200 innings FOR the Braves and 10-15 wins and 180-200 innings to be replaced by the Muts!
By Wayne in Utah
December 31, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
ever lerking in the blog shadows…..
By McFann
December 31, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
You’re correct, Shaun. I totally agree 100%. Now I gotta get going. Time for the Tech game…TOUCHDOWN!!
By Brad in MT
December 31, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this
Happy New Year everyone…
By BILL
December 31, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
James- I would offer Tex a contract for 5-7 years @22mil per year.If he will not sign, trade him now. I’m tired of these selfish players. How much money is enough?
By Shaun
December 31, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Bill, would you sign a contract if you were fairly certain that you would get significantly more from some other company, if you wait less than a year longer? If so, doesn’t that make you selfish, too?
By Jeff R
December 31, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Bill, with Boras as Tex’s agent that may not prove enough. The Yankees are hot to trot for Ol’ Tex, or so go the reports. They’ve certainly got enough loot to outbid the Braves any day of the week. And what NYC holds out for Tex is buckets of endorsement money: potentially as much or more than whatever player contract he signs. Having said that, Tex does have ties to Atlanta. His wife’s family for one (big reason). And some guys just don’t like playing in the media golfish bowl that NYC is. Now, will the Braves ever be willing to tender an offer to Tex for the 5-7 years and the $22 million per that you mention? I don’t think so, though I do believe they’ll be willing to bump the $20 million per year mark and go five years. If Wren fails to sign Tex this will be one big rent-a-player deal, one that stinks given the talent the Braves surrendered to secure Tex. It’ll make the Just the Dollars Drew rent-a-player swap look good in comparison.
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
if there are not talks with tex before the deadline and the braves are out of it by august he is as good as gone.
now i dont expect the braves to be out of it by august so there lies the dilemna. my guess is the braves went into the trade knowing that this was a posability . they knew it might be a 1 1/2 year rental. they knew it was boras who represented him. its really up to tex. if he wants to stay he will.
as for the present, just enjoy his time here.
By nOLIE
December 31, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Does anyone knows when 24s season 7 is coming?Overlord
likely will start production in July or so.Show will likely start airing in late Oct or early Nov unless the writer’s strike really hacks things up. I was terribly disappointed in season 6 after season 5 was the best one yet. I hope that they can bounce back.
By DAP
December 31, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
i cant believe how some people have seemed to have forgotten about the black hole andruw created in our lineup last year. it was brutal.
i sincerly believe that any of the regular players except for thorman would have made a better cleanup hitter than andruw. i guess it just subjective, but i really thought there was a concensus on that point. oh well.
my spell check usually does catch proper names. it always wants me to capitalize them. :-)
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 31, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
46 days until pitchers and catchers report. I decided to do a depth chart on the team and got a bit of a rude surprise. Having assumed that the starting pitching is the strongest area of the team , I was pleasantly shocked to find that in fact , the infield is the deepest when considering experience and versatility.
Chipper , Teixeira , Escobar and Johnson are the starters backed up by Thorman , Infante and Aybar. That is three switch hitters , two right handed bats and two lefty’s.
Prado , Lillibridge , Guzman and Canizares will provide even more depth and talent in Richmond.
Meanwhile , the outfield is the big question mark.
Francoeur , Diaz , Anderson , Jones , Blanco , Schafer , Clark and Borchard represent plenty of depth , talent and defense but little offense or experience as Frenchy and Matt are only proven veteran outfielders.
As Francouer and Diaz personify the only two veterans and right handed bats , this is a head scratcher when considering that Cox will want to carry four outfielders on his 25 man roster.
I think the Villarreal/Anderson trade is going to be ridiculously lopsided in the Braves favor.
Josh Anderson stole 237 bases while getting thrown out just 62 times in five minor league seasons , a success rate of .792 percent (nearly 8 out of 10 attempts). He was rated the Texas league’s best defensive outfielder and fastest base runner by Baseball America in 2005.
Are the Braves going to sign or trade for another veteran CF ? or stand pat with the youngsters they already have. I’m still hung up on Coco Crisp (the cereal man) but have to admit , Mike Cameron is looking better by the minute.
No worries mates , the catching is in good hands. McCann is backed up by five more grunts behind the plate.
One more interesting fact , the Braves have more depth in the rotation than they do in the bullpen , which is really crazy when you think about it.
Everyone have a Happy New Year , be safe , don’t drink and drive and LETS GO BRAVES IN 2008 !!!!!!
O’Yea , Hunker down DAWGS !
By TennesseePaul
December 31, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
If he had won 13 more games, I don’t think we’d even be having this discussion right now.
Yeah. But he didn’t and here we are.
By mo in the boonies
December 31, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
overlord I read something the other day about 24 being canceled. Can’t remember where I read it though.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
December 31, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
24 has not been cancelled. Due to the writer’s strike they shut down production. Like all other shows they can’t produce any new shows. 24 doesn’t film a cluster of shows in advance. They only film 4 shows at a time because the writers have the leeway to alter the script. It is almost like they do it on the fly. Any “new” shows you that are being aired now were filmed before the writer’s strike.
By mo in the boonies
December 31, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
Overlord I just googled it, and on the New York Post page it said they had “postponed” it indefinitely because they only have eight episodes filmed and won’t run them because the show is called 24 not 8. Also shut down Bill Maher and SNL.
By BILL
December 31, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
Shaun- It looks like you are the selfish one. I would like Tex to be here. Enjoyed watching him play at Tech and he married a N.Ga. gal. I don’t think he would be a good fit for NY City. A person will give up alot to be comfortable in a certain place.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
December 31, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
Fresno State 40 Georgia Tech 28. I’m LMAO ! This is to funny.
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
bill,
why dont you ask glavine the same question. another thing money does make a huge difference. $5 million over five years is still $5 million.
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this
I was simply asking you why you said that. You obviously can’t give me an answer……… I take you statement to mean that because he had either Jeff or Brian behind him, pitchers weren’t giving AJ anything to hit. Well, you said that McCann and Francoeur aren’t fully mature, so wouldn’t that explain why pitchers would rather pitch to them?
Uh, yeah. You accuse me of not being able to give you the answer but then go on to say that I gave you the answer. Whatever. So, no, hon, not ducking you. Don’t dare flatter yourself that way. I’ve done my battles with far greater on here and never ducked ‘em.
You can accuse me of ducking when you’ve done your ugly, bloody battles as I have with Paladin, Serbok, Coach, Wayne, Lew, Shaun, Jimmy, Bob, Eric the Elder, 10Paul, SJA, Stinky, Carolina Lady, Hillbilly, Walter’s Daddy, Klobber, DAP, Salty, both Gils, Bravonam, DOB, Grinch, Berigan, KC, Oddjob, Robert, N8, Serbok, Ugabrave, Letwan, Ron Roberts, Julia, Flbravesgirl, Choppinmama, 10Greg, Adirondack Dave, Savannah Guy, Mo in the Boonies, Saltywoody, Bravonam, Charlie Alpha Bravo, Flange1, Robert (Justice is the Best), Bravesdave, Kieran from Long Island, Georgetown Kid, Brad in KY, Brad in MT, HK, doc, nOLIE, Overlord, Thirsty Horse, DonCoburleone, Carroll Rogers, Scalp ‘Em, daybed, scoots, cricket, scribe, jared, mbatl, random, metroman, drool, tommyp, bosslady, meb, steve mcp, braveone, and all the others. Until such time, accusing me of ducking is buffoonery. Most of those people probably can’t stand me because I don’t duck ‘em and pick too many fights with them.
You keep changing you stance on this. You say they shouldn’t bat clean-up ‘cause their not mature enough, yet you think they should be completely able of protecting the clean-up hitter. That’s two completely different things ….. I just fail to see your logic.
McFann, seriously, what is the level of your reading comprehension? I never said McCann and Frenchy should be completely capable of protecting the cleanup hitter or #3 hitter. The logic is simply this: IF they are incapable of fully protecting the cleanup hitter, which is understandable at this stage of their careers, THEN how could either protect Chipper if you put them at cleanup hitter?
i cant believe how some people have seemed to have forgotten about the black hole andruw created in our lineup last year. it was brutal.
DAP have not forgotten. As horrendous a black hole as he was, there were no better alternatives.
Someone look at this timeline and the stats and tell me when Andruw was supposed to be replaced with another alternative:
At the end of April, Andruw had a .936 OPS. Is Cox gonna replace him then?
At the end of May, Andruw had a .777 OPS. Frenchy had a .806 OPS. McCann had a .766 OPS. Gonna replace him with guys putting up similar numbers after one bad month?
On June 23, Andruw had a .680 OPS. Well, okay, maybe you replace him then after 2 horrific months at the plate. Problem was McCann had a .698 OPS on that date. McCann’s OPS for June was .686. Frenchy had a .743 OPS on that date that dipped down to .729 just a few days later. Frenchy’s OPS in May was .716 and his OPS in June was a miserable .665. Why would Cox replace Andruw with two guys performing almost as bad as Andruw?
In July, Andruw had a .935 OPS. In July, McCann had a .894 OPS. In July, Frenchy had a .890 OPS. Andruw was outperforming them in this month, so why would Cox replace Druw with them during that month?
In August, Tex arrived.
Andruw had a .773 OPS as a cleanup hitter last year. McCann had a .772 OPS for the entire season. Frenchy had a .782 OPS last season.
Happy New Year, everyone!
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
braveheart,
pretty much agree with everything you said. as late as the all-star break i dont think anyone thought andruw was gonna finish the season at .222.
the braves did not finish 3rd because of andruw in the 4 hole. they finished 3rd because they could never string together anything that resembled a hot streak. pretty much due to the back of the rotation.
By Wayne in Utah
December 31, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
WW and others lerking in blogdom this evening.
It has been an honor and a pleasure of being a member of this group for the past year.
Have a safe and Happy New Year. Wayne in Utah will try to hold it down to 2-3 Diet Dr Pepper’s tonight!
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
braveheart,
the tide defintely had their moments last night. not a saban fan but he will get it done. you will have the pick of the litter in alabama soon. think you will be playing in the dome in two years.
think about the coaches now in the SEC. pretty darn impressive.
By Shaun
December 31, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
Shaun- It looks like you are the selfish one. I would like Tex to be here. Enjoyed watching him play at Tech and he married a N.Ga. gal. I don’t think he would be a good fit for NY City. A person will give up alot to be comfortable in a certain place.
Not sure how this relates to the point. I’d also like to see Teixeira stay in Atlanta because I’m a Braves fan. But I wouldn’t blame him for going somewhere else if he can get more years and more dollars. Maybe that’s selfish but that’s certainly no more selfish than most other people I know. If I had a job where I traveled a lot anyway for about 7 months out of the year and I could afford to bring my family with me for a large part of those 7 months, I think I would go where I could get the most years and most money. At the very least, I wouldn’t blame someone for going where he could get the most years and most money.
By Wayne in Utah
December 31, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this
uga Hope you have had a great holiday. Not trying to be argumentative this evening, but to be honest, if I had to lay some blame for the inability to make the playoffs this year, I have to lay the blame squarely at the feet of the departed Andruw Jones. If we had gotten an average year out of him, the trade for Tex would have probably not happened, we might have gotten a pither in a deal (this is still debatable), and I think we would have definitely made the playoffs.
It can be argued that if we had a more consistent #4/#5, we might have still made the playoffs, but the lion’s share of the blame falls upon AJ. BTW, not too many successful teams had strong back end rotation hurlers.
Take care, my friend!
By KC
December 31, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
NOOOOOO Don’t let Boog go!!!!!!!
He and Joe gel quite well together on the air, and if he goes, Chip could be called on to take his place. NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
December 31, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this
Just wanted to wish everyone a Happy New Year…..
And yes, both Andruw and the back half of the rotation sucked last year…. It was not one thing that went wrong but several things at different times that had a cumulative affect on the Braves. That translated to a consistently, inconsistent team.
The Braves are going to be a better team in 2008. The question is, what about everyone else? Still will take about 95 wins to take the devision outright. Does everyone think the Braves can win 10 more games than last year given the improvement and depth of the current rotation?
I do for one, I think the Braves are going to be the top dog in the NL East in 2008. How far they advance in the playoffs will depend on how used up their arms are after 162 games.
By uga-brave
December 31, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
wayne,
happy new year, and i hope you dont knock back to many peppers tonight you saw what it did to forrest gump.
as many four letter words i used on andruw last year i dont know that things would of been a whole lot different if he had a average year.
our 4-5 pitching holes were so bad and it killed the bullpen in late june and july. then there was that diastorous seven games with the reds. your right he may of contributed but i dont believe he was the reason.
By Braveheart
December 31, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
Wayne, right back at ya! You watching your Tigers in the Peach Bowl tonight? I’m watching right now with a stinkin’ Auburn grad.
Ugabrave, I hope you’re right about Saban. I’m still angry at him for Mississippi State and freaking Louisiana Monroe though. But once he gets his own recruits in there, they should be good. The SEC is incredibly tough these days. There won’t be a weak link at any school when it comes to head coaches next season.
McFann Let’s call a truce. You’re a feisty little bugger nipping on my heels all the time. Got a lot of potential in ya. Whatever you do, don’t change a thing. And I ain’t buying that you only started following baseball in 2006. You know too much.
By McFann
December 31, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
Thank you, Braveheart, for your 8 o’clock post. I ain’t flattering myself in any way, though. Nag, just tryin’ to find out what you meant. OK, we can call a truce, sure. Heck, you’re the one that got me to stay one of those times I threatened to leave. Don’t worry, I won’t change a thing, ‘cause then it wouldn’t be the same—OK, that’s an inside joke. Anyway…
OK, I did become a Braves fan in mid-2005, but I didn’t become int’rested in all the ins and outs of baseball until 2006. That’s when I became truely passionate about the Braves. In ‘05 I was sort of a just-watchin’-for-the-fun-of-it fan. But thank you for the complement. I try to find out as much about the game as I can. I even own the 2007 edition of The Official Rules of Major League Baseball. Did you know that Pedro Martinez is violating rule 1.15 (a) by wearing that blue glove? ; )
As a matter of fact, my very first battle on this blog was with Mets Drool. What ever happened to that nut case, anyway?
By McFann
December 31, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
BTW, what is all this talk about Boog leaving? That would really bum me out. As ‘07 went on, I began to like him waaaayy better than I liked Chip. (Same goes for the rest of my family.) So really, what’s it about?
BOOOOO, Fresno State!!!!
Go Hawaii!! (Whenever that game is.)
By TNRON
December 31, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
rumor has it the Drooling One is in therapy after ARod resigned with the Yanks.
By McFann
December 31, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
Ha ha!! The Drooling One*…Sounds like an old Indian name. How appropriate.
By Savannah Guy
December 31, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
You can accuse me of ducking when you’ve done your ugly, bloody battles as I have with…
William Wallace Now, now…don’t you think our infamous battle axe duel of all duels warrants more than a middle of the pack mention?
Cuz, happy new year and same to all my pals on the blog. Oh, my old sidekick Thirsty Horse says hello too. We rode together a time or two.
Now baseball: It’s been a crazy year for baseball and steroids and Mitchell and Clemens and such and such. Oh, by the by…Horse wants to know what all these OPS, OBP, STP, LSD, HGH, THC, FUBAR acronyms stand for. I just told him it was a multi-generational baseball thing. He just snorted and walked away. What do horses know. Just thirsty for knowledge I guess.
; )
By McFann
December 31, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
Hey, Savannah Guy,
Tell Thirsty Horse that McFann says “hi”.
By Savannah Guy
December 31, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
McFann, I’ll be sure to pass along your hello to Horse. Last I saw of him this afternoon he was after a Chestnut Mare up on the ridge. Love at first sight.
The Drooling One…Sounds like an old Indian name.
No Indian tribe in North or South America would ever name a human child that. Names like that are reserved for rabid chipmunks, weasels and ground moles.
Since you’re new…or so it seems, I’ll offer a word of caution; be careful not to mention Mets Drool more than twice in one day. Three times and he somehow reappears…like Beetlejuice. Twice as pesky but not nearly as smart or funny. Arod re-upping with Yanks likely shrunk his head even more than it was before his season ended in the meltdown of the century.
By David O'Brien
January 1, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year to you all.
Just saw a great show in Charleston tonight, Jason Isbell and Will Hoge. Both were excellent. As was the shrimp & grits at Hank’s restaurant.
Cool town, for sure.
Oh, and I talked to Dave Dombrowski in the lobby of the hotel where we’re staying. He’s been here since Friday with his wife and kids and Mike Veeck’s family. Small world. Known Dave since my days covering the Marlins. Did a double-take when we were walking and he was sitting there between his two kids on a couch.
By David O'Brien
January 1, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this
DonC, you asked about these guys.
In my opinion: Jim Rice: NO; Bert Blyleven: YES; Andre Dawson: YES; Jack Morris: NO; Goose Gossage: YES; Don Mattingly: NO; Tim Raines: NO.
By nOLIE
January 1, 2008 3:42 AM | Link to this
In my opinion: Jim Rice: NO; Bert Blyleven: YES; Andre Dawson: YES; Jack Morris: NO; Goose Gossage: YES; Don Mattingly: NO; Tim Raines: NO.DOB
My only change would be a YES for Raines, but I can live with it either way
By uga-brave
January 1, 2008 5:58 AM | Link to this
DOB,
when in charleston if you get the chance eat at fig, ( food is good) or high cotton. both great local chefs and with cool atmosphere.
been to the masters the last two years and we have been lucky enough to come down to charlseton stay at the ANDRUW PICNEY inn and play one round of golf at wild dunes and one at the ocean course at kiawah.
love charlseton, had friends that went to the college of charleston and they took me to the music farm. lots of great bands incubated their .
went out to RED’S ICE HOUSE on shem creek great place. sat out there had a ton of beer watched the boats come in. great way to spend a day.
sorry mcfaan did not see brian sailing one that day.
By uga-brave
January 1, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this
dap.
love your opinions but i think BRAVEHEART got the best of you, on the ANDRUW thing. i think that twisted BAMA fan is right.
who else should of hit 4th. the guy was coming off of a combined 90 hrs seasons.
DONT give me the francoeur risp argument, you are gonna see a lot of the same thing in francouer with a lot lees power.
not calling out the golden boy, but the guy is a bit of a lunger. he is young and he has never failed. but he hits off his front foot.
i will bet dollars to donuts that francoeur will never hit 300 hr’s in a braves uniform.
By uga-brave
January 1, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this
so there it is, daw’s the GWINETT county all star become a BRAVE all- star?
doses he become the next HOSS or doses he become a ron gant. the jury is out.
slow type of hot stove. what do all of you think?
By uga-brave
January 1, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this
so here comes the crap i am crazy or i dont know crap about baseball.
but it is at least a decent argument.
just dont tell mCfann.
By ncscoots
January 1, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this
It takes more than one thing going wrong for a team that was third in the league in both runs scored and ERA to not make the playoffs. I think Gil has more the right of it…just consistently inconsistent.
My fear is that the offense will be even younger in 2008, and may be just as inconsistent. Can Escobar, Johnson, Frenchy, and Heap ALL show improvement? That seems quite an alignment of the stars to me. Jones is a rookie and I expect him to play like one, and who knows where Stop Gap fits.
As for the pitching, sure, it appears to better, but better than a 4.11 ERA? That’s a leap, IMO. Can the higher level of talent among the potential starters produce an order-of-magnitude increase in performance? I’m actually less worried about the bullpen; it’s stocked with arms, and the roles can always be sorted out in the spring. Braves have a fearless closer, and that’s what counts.
A lot can happen betweem now and April 1, but today the Braves are one of those teams with lots of talent, and lots of the dreaded “potential”. But will they realize that potential consistently enough?
By Braveheart
January 1, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
Ugabrave, I think what is important to remember with Francouer is that he is so darn young. It was funny watching the Auburn/Clemson game last night and hearing Brad Nessler talk about how Brad Lester was a teammate of Frenchy in high school. And he was still playing college ball. That’s how darn young Frenchy and McCann are.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
uga, when are you gonna learn how to spell? It’s mostly my name you have trouble with…
Ya know, I meant to type, “Tell Thirsty Horse McFann says ‘Hey’.” I think he would’ve gotten a kick out of that.
Speakin’ of the Clemson/Auburn game, who won, anyway? Ya know McCann’s Brother went to Clemson. Don’t know if he finished college… (I was pullin’ for them anyway ‘cause their ACC like GT.)
Actually, Opening Day is March 30. Ha ha!! The Braves start before the Mets!!
By McFann
January 1, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
IDK about Frenchy and Escobar, and Johnson should be real good this year as he was last. McCann will most likely show improvement. He can’t get any worse, true? Not that he was despicable last year or anything. But this year he’ll be able to see. That should make a big difference. But I better shut up now before I set myself up for some big-time humiliation.
Happy New Year!!
By David O'Brien
January 1, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
uga-brave, that’s where we saw Isbell and Hoge last night, the Music Farm. Cool old place.
Couldn’t believe who was coming to that joint later this month: Wu-Tang Clan.
By Jason
January 1, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Where is all this money? Team prez said they would have more money to spend! What 8 mil for Glavin. LOL Lets just hope next year we dont give away Texiera! I mean really, every year we let solid performers go because they think their cheep minor leaguers can do the job. Yeah right! SPEND SOME MONEY PLEASE!!!
By Overlord
January 1, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
DOB, being realistic, what is the NL playing for in 2008??? We will start 2008 season having top 4-6 teams in the AL (again). What are the chances of the 2008 NL champ to take the AL champ???, regardless of which teams we are talking about. Dont NL owners have any pride? The feeling in the past few years has been “maybe theyll get lucky and win WS”. None of the top AL teams are afraid to play top NL, they have the feeling theyll kick axx. Even when NL teams win WS it was not expected.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 1, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
I guess the 2006 World Champion St.Louis Cardinals didn’t have a chance either , did they ? Overlord.
The Southeastern Conference so far in bowl games , 4-0. Five more Bowl games to play. Anybody think that the S.E.C. has a chance to go 9-0 ?
By Braveheart
January 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
McFann, Auburn won the game last night. Their freshman QB looks pretty good - should fit right into the new spread offense Tuberville’s new OC is bringing with him. Don’t know if it was a good idea to fire Borges. Their offense hasn’t been all that good but wasn’t that because Brandon Cox is not a good QB? Seems like I remember Tuberville not being that good of a coach back when he had Ronnie Brown, Brandon Jacobs, Cadillac Williams, and Jason Campbell in the same backfield. They almost fired him for his sorry results with that kind of NFL talent, tried to hire Petrino, and then forced Borges on Tommy Big Ears. Borges is the one who figured out what to do with those stars in a way Tuberville never could and they went undefeated. Muschamp is a helluva defensive coordinator. Borges and Muschamp were the real geniuses behind that undefeated season.
Savannah Guy That’s the problem with naming names. You forget someone, they get mad. You don’t mention them high enough on a list, they get mad. Unless you are George Mitchell. If he doesn’t name you, you snicker and breathe a sigh of relief that you’re still getting away with it.
KC I agree with ya. We can’t let Boog go. Dude is darn good. I wonder though if he leaves, will people be mad at him the way they get mad at Tex or Glavine because he takes more money? Or does that only apply to the players?
Ugabrave I couldn’t stand Bob Rathbun when he did Braves games. Got on my last nerve. But the weird thing is I like him alot on Hawks games. He and Steve Smith have good chemistry. You would think his style would be more annoying with basketball because he would carry on with dunks and threes with what seemed to be false enthusiasm when he did Braves games when homers or great fielding plays were made. But he doesn’t really do that with basketball. Maybe basketball is too fast paced and he doesn’t have time to carry on whereas with baseball, he would carry on so much I had to mute the television and deal with the ever annoying seven second delay with the radio.
Chip Caray is kind of the same way. During games, he annoys me with his false enthusiasm and corny phrases but when he is doing the pregame and postgame on the radio, I really like him because he doesn’t have time to do any of that and he just acts like himself.
But Rathbun had some really bad partners with the Braves. Think about the Shrill Shrieks of the Screaming Hyena, a.k.a., Tom Paciorek. That guy was one annoying goober.
By Lew
January 1, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Scoots-Still the eternal non optimist, aren’t you Dude? You speak of Frency, McCann and KJ as if they were mere rookies. Frenchy and McCann are about to start their fourth ML season (third full) and neither has had a poor year yet. Yes, they are young, but are both accomplished, nonetheless. Johnson has been steady and all have proven to be hard workers and willing to work towards improvement-unlike some who are no longer here.
Yes, there will be questions about Escobar and Brandon-center field as well. However, you must look to our own division first. Have any of our competitors improved themselves very much, if at all?
The Mets certainly are no stronger and are likely weaker. They lost Glavine and have done nothing whatsoever to rebuild their rotation. Pedro pitching 200 innings? Yeah right. They have lost LoDuca, Milledge, Green and Glavine. They have zero chemistry and a closer who is dissatisfied at best. Their clubhouse may well be toxic and the rest of their starters (excepting Reyes and Wright, of course) are old and prone to injuries.
The Phillies lost one of their spark plugs with Rowand. They still have no reliable third baseman. Is Burrell capable of putting up back to back decent seasons? What about their rotation? Bringing Myers back to starter can’t hurt, but they still are relying on Moyer who is approaching what? 50? He had a horrendous ERA last year, as well. Eaton, too. Their bullpen is somewhat improved with the Houston trade, but they still have no reliable closer and the bullpen could likely turn to joke status very fast in that little league stadium.
The Nats have little offense, but plenty of criminal elements in their clubhouse. Their only decent hitter last year was Dmitri Young. Hope he can put up another career year, but who knows? Can Nick Johnson return after missing more than a year with that terrible broken leg? If he does, where will he play now that Dmitri is there? Was Zimmerman’s rookie season the aberration, or was last year? Can Patterson come back from injury to be effective and can their young rotation progress?
Do we even need to discuss the Marlins, who are in their second youth movement in three years?
Maybe we have some question marks, but the rest of the division won’t be running away with anything. Can anyone compete with the AL powerhouses, anyway?
By Glass Half Full
January 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
I particularly liked when Tom Paciorek would say asinine things like “He’s good,” in reference to players like Smoltz, Clemens, Maddux, A-Rod, etc.,.
By ncscoots
January 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Hereby resolved: to add to the list of blog shorthand insults (currently containing “your and idiot”, or YAI), the phrase and shorthand, “one annoying goober”, or OAG.
Passed by voice vote; so ordered.
By Overlord
January 1, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Coach you know exactly what im talking about, so dont try playing smart. Our braves play in the AAAA team while the AL plays in MLB.
By Braveheart
January 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Overlord Since the Braves won the World Series in 1995, the teams that have won the World Series have not been teams that go out and w******* it up and sign every free agent available. Alot of these AL teams are making the very same fatal mistakes the Yankees have made since their dynasty ended. Only 2 teams since the Braves won in 1995 have been what I would call prostitute teams. That would be the 1997 Marlins and the 2001 DBacks. Those 2 teams truly sold their souls. The rest of them have mostly done it with homegrowns, shrewd trades and signings of undervalued players, and the timely sprinkling in of a superstar or two and a another star or two.
How are the 2008 Braves much different than the 2002 Angels, the 2003 Marlins, the 2005 White Sox, the 2006 Cardinals? They’re really not any different.
Superstars: Chipper, Smoltz, Tex
All Stars: Hudson, McCann,
Budding stars: Frenchy, Yunel, Chuck James, Rafael Soriano, Kelly Johnson, Peter Moylan
Aging stars: Glavine
Good prospects poised to contribute: Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge, JoJo Reyes, Jai Jurrjens, Acosta, Jordan Schafer
Wildcards: Jeff Bennett, Javy Lopez, Joey Devine, Mike Hampton, Blaine Boyer, Royce Ring,
Solid utility men: Infante, Aybar, Prado,
Solid relievers: Tyler Yates, Will Ohman
There are alot of teams out there envious of the Braves situation right now. I would like more and have complained often about it but things are not as bad as you think. The 2008 team on paper doesn’t look much different heading into spring training as the Angels, Marlins, White Sox, and Cardinals did the years they won when they headed into spring training.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Thanks for tellin’ me who won. Not sure what all that other stuff was about. I’m sure not knowledgeable about football.
OH MAN!! I had forgotten about Tom Paciorek!! Good grief!! I’d rather have Bob and Chip than that guy!! (OK, maybe not.) How about when somebody’d hit a single or something and he’d shout “HELLO!!” Gee wiz…
I still have yet to know why you guys are talking about Boog leaving, but gee, I wish it was Chip.
You’re correct, Lew. McCann and Frenchy are accomplished…especially McCann. Two All-Star appearances and a Silver Slugger…that’s pretty accomplished, IMHO.
By Choppinmama
January 1, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Happy New Year to the Braves faithful! I, for one, am glad to be home after a 3 week road trip. Just enough time to unpack, put away Christmas, find all my soon-to-be Braves memorabilia and head back to the Big A next weekend for Fanfest. I am SO looking forward to being totally immersed in Bravesness for 2 days.
Hope everyone is warm and feeling good today, lots of football being played to satisfy all allegiances. I’ll be stirring from my couch long enough to bring the plants in before our hard freeze tonight. (no sarcastic comments from those of you with appreciable whiteness on your lawns)
We played a lot of Hungry Hungry Hippos this holiday. Gotta say that game would be a riot to play after a few drinks - it’s funny enough with 3 adults and a 5 yr old only drinking H’wn Punch.
Speaking of Hawaiian, I hope June and the Warrior bro’s handle UGA tonight. Hao’li Makahiki Hou!
OK - gonna sit back and continue to recover for the rest of the day.
-30- Selah Buh-bye Catch y’all later
By McFann
January 1, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Hope Hawaii wins tonight (today?) Doubt if I’ll be watchin’, but whatever.
I hope Timmy makes it to the All-Stars this year [McCann, too : ) ] But I guess it’s waaaaayy to early to e talkin’ about that.
Aybar and Yates solid? Whatever. I’m still mad at Yates for September 24, 2006.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama:
I used to LOVE Hungry Hungry Hippos!!
By Choppinmama
January 1, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
McFann - it sure is a lot livelier that CandyLand! BTW, your bright and optimistic blogging, and your enthusiastic support of Brian has been a pleasure to keep up with the past few weeks.
Keep it up and don’t let us old fogies on here dampen your spirit.
We need to hear more feminine voices on this site - c’mon ladies, blog away in 2008!
By McFann
January 1, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama
You’re correct. Candy Land isn’t that exciting.
Thanks for the support. Don’t y’all worry. I’ve decided to stick around. I think some of these pessimists need me. LOL!!
By Lew
January 1, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
McFann-Let us not speak nonsense. Hawaii will not end the evening undefeated. They are playing the hottest team in College football. The Dawgs will definitely show those Luau Boys what true competition is when they get to experience the SEC in N’Awlins-pretty much SEC Turf. No grass skirts allowed down south.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Lew, you’re pro’bly correct. But I can’t stand UGA at all, I’m sorry. BTW, not to be too…oh, what’s the word…not to nag, but um…have you sent me the drawing yet?
By Lew
January 1, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
McFann- I just got over a bronchial infection. We got 6 inches of snow yesterday. We got another 8 so far today and it is supposed to continue falling through late tomorrow morning. In the morning alone, we are due for another 8-10 inches. It will be over two feet by the time it ends (not counting what was already on the ground). Then it goes down to minus four degrees tomorrow night.
I can’t even see the end of my driveway, much less make it to the post office to check my mail. I can’t even go to get my newspaper. I almost lost my 95 pound dog when he went to use the snow covered outdoors for his daily romp. The snow is up to mid chest on him. This is why I said it would likely be after the first of the year.
Patience, Grasshopper. I have never reneged on a Wurlitzer in the two plus years of their existence-nor have I even taken money for postage, even. Your’s will be no different-I promise. I haven’t even been able to go to the printer and had prints made for the other denizens-much less hand color them. All will be delivered in due time.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
That’s OK, Lew. I was just curious. I didn’t mean to sound pushy. Glad to read you’re feelin’ better. Thanks.
What kind of dog do you have?
By DAP
January 1, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
uga-brave thanx for the compliment. the argument with overlord about andruw batting cleanup has gone around in circles for a few days, and ive decided to leave it alone.
i would never argue andruw was the right chioce to bat cleanup at the start of the season, but he overstayed his welcome there by the first week of june. i was saying it then, and ill keep saying it, cox screwed up when he let him continue to bat cleanup. chipper, francouer, and mccann in that order would have all been better options. andruw should have been moved down to 7th, and it would have been better for the whole team.
all the stats have been thrown out there already, so im not gonna rehash. the stats tell me one thing and they tell you guys something else. ill leave it at that. its overwith now anyway.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 1, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
to all R.E.M. fans, here is some exciting news:
Their new album, “Accelerate,” will be released on April 1, 2008.
They’ve got a website called Ninety Nights (www.ninetynights.com) on which they’ll show a new video clip every day leading up to the release of the album. The clips will start on Jan. 1st. (whether those clips will be band- or performance-related, i don’t know.)
By David O'Brien
January 1, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Overlord, you ask: “What are the chances of the 2008 NL champ to take the AL champ???”
I don’t know, Overlord, what were the chances of the St. Louis Cardinals beating the AL champ Tigers way back when, in, oh, 2007? Actually not just beating them, but beating them in five games, when the Tigers had home-field advantage and didn’t even get the World Series back to Detroit for Games 6 or 7.
If you really believe you can predict what’ll happen in the World Series, or the postseason, I’d like you to tell me you picked the Rockies to make the World Series last year?
By Overlord
January 1, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
DAP i have not talked about AJ for a long time, or did i miss something?
Braveheart you are right about 2008 braves, on paper they just look very good, time will tell if they can execute, hope they do.
About some players you classified, i have something to say:
I do thing Hudson could be considered a superstar. Im not a real huddy fan, but the guy has the 20th best winning % of all time, and i think he used to be like 10th but he hasnt done as good in atlanta. He also has the 13th best ERA among active players tied with Glavine. I will assume you left him out because he has not been so reliable in atlanta.
I think smoltz could be put at the aging star with glavine, cause that is what he is, he did outperformed glavine in 2007 but he aint no teenager.
I dont think James should be put in a group with players of the caliber of KJ, frenchy, Soriano, etc. He aint the winner others are, at least not yet.
Dont think Acosta should be mentioned as a prospect anymore, he showed a lot more than lots of veterans last year.
Dont see Aybar as a solid bench player, certainly better than woodcrap and company. Is Prado a solid bench player? he might be, not sure about that 100%.
By Lew
January 1, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
McFann-I have a Border Retriever-He is half Border Collie and half Golden Retriever. He looks kind of like a Blank and white Golden Retriever. He is large.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew, how does you bird get along with the dog?
By Saltywoody
January 1, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Just curious-did anyone read Mark Bowman’s latest article on Braves.com?
Not sure how much editing goes into what’s posted there, or how much time is invested in off-season articles (assuming they’re just posted to give everyone something to read and not really for quality’s sake). But, that said, that was one of the more poorly written articles I’ve ever read.
He uses the term “once again” about seventeen times within the first four sentences, and refers to the centerfielder we got from the Astros as “James Anderson.”
This is just me thinking out loud, but I’m going to throw it out there that if you’re a sportswriter on the national level and your articles are going to be posted on the Braves’ frontpage and on MLB.com, it might be a good idea to read over your article once before you post it.
Plus, there aren’t even any song lyrics to accompany the posting.
By Braveheart
January 1, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Overlord I left Hudson out of the superstar category because he has been inconsistent. Guys like Smoltz, Chipper, Tex are superstars to me because they are rock solid and predictable year in and year out.
I would not put Smoltz in the aging star category with Glavine. What I meant by aging star is that more often than not, they are as good as they ever were but sometimes they are just plain awful. Glavine had about 7 horrendous starts last year. In his 27 best starts, Glavine had a 2.70 something ERA. That to me is what an aging star is. Smoltz on the other hand was rock solid and did not have any horrendous starts. He had a about a handful of somewhat bad starts but nothing as horrific as Glavine had when Glavine was bad and nothing more than you would expect out of any other superstar pitcher.
If you don’t think Smoltz is a superstar, ask yourself this: If Smoltz went out on the free agent market right now, would the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox fight with each other for the right to pay Smoltz $20 million for 2008 to pitch for them? You better believe they would.
It was just six years ago that the Yankees offered Smoltz about 4 years, $52 million to be a starter even though Smoltz had missed alot of 2001, had missed all of 2000, and pitched terribly hurt for the second half of 1999. Despite the respect being shown by the Yanks, Smoltz settled for being a closer for the Braves and taking a 4 year, $32 mil hometown discount contract to stay.
When you really think about it, Smoltz might be a big reason why the Yankees have not won a World Series since 2000. If he took that money, he would have been the kind of postseason starter they have sorely missed.
If the Braves had just traded for a pitcher that went 16-10 in 34 starts with a 3.51 ERA, a 1.35 WHIP, and 150 Ks in 195 innings, would you be happy? If you were honest, you probably would be and you would probably call that pitcher a budding star as well. Well, that’s what Chuck James did from August 1, 2006 until July 31, 2007.
I agree with you that Acosta showed much more than alot of the vets but he has not yet pitched enough innings in the majors to be anything more than a prospect for me. But I do think he is darn good.
As for Aybar, if he has conquered his demons, he is absolutely a solid utility player. I think he and Infante are one of the big keys next season. If Aybar is healthy and not suffering from depression and addiction, the dude will have an OBP approaching .400 and effectively spell Chipper when Hoss goes down for 25 to 30 games next year.
But I do admit that I got carried away labeling Prado a solid utility player. He might be but I can’t say that for sure yet.
By TNRON
January 1, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody- try humming the Vanderbilt fight song for comedic effect when reading such reports.
By Choppinmama
January 1, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
Lew: Just read your 4:57 about the weather conditions up in your neck of the woods……….and now I’m feeling very guilty ‘cause I’m worrying about a little ‘ol hard freeze down south heah tonight.
I well remember those bitter winters in Erie PA with the lake effects. Brrrrrrrrr. You folks that choose to deal with snowy winters are hewn from hearty stock. Not me………..I’m a tropical gal at heart.
Reason #145 why I love baseball and the Braves…a great outdoor sport played at a great venue. (My opinion on the venue may change once I get a good look at the new home plate $$$eating!!)
Keep your stove stoked, and tie one of those orange bicycle flags to the ol’ hound before you let him out so you can keep track of him in the great white outdoors.
By Lew
January 1, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
ChoppinMama-They pay well here-very well. I kept the place in Orlando, though. I will be there with the pitchers and catchers. I wouldn’t worry too much about the dog. He loves the snow. His range of motion is just not the full 35 acres right now. Much fossil fuel is being burned.
By Choppinmama
January 1, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Lew: Your current abode sure makes you appreciate the Orlando place, doesn’t it?
I love that first look at the guys out on the field on the first day of my visits to Disney. Warm blue skies, palms all over, green grass and our guys in their practice jerseys. Heaven on earth!
Of course this year I’ll have to take head shots with me to i.d. all the new guys, the wannabes (except Javy), the walk-ons and the minor leaguers. But - what a great problem to have.
Keep your generator close, and if there’s a Mrs. Lew, keep her closer! Hope “your” getting better day by day.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Just because the Yanks, Mets, or Red Sox would pay big bucks for somebody, it doesn’t mean their still a superstar. If Timmy was inconsistent, then so was Smoltz. I mean, Smoltz was 14-8, Timmy was 16-10. Tim had two more losses than Smoltz, but he also had two more wins. Same ratio. And let’s not forget Tim’s stretch of 11 starts with a record of 9-0.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
January 1, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Never argue with child or someone pretending to be.
By McFann
January 1, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Wow. Haven’t read from Gil in while.
That was a fun while, too.
BTW, Braveheart, please don’t make a fuss over what I said. I’m goin’ to bed.
By Lew
January 1, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
ChoppinMama-Yes, there has been a Mrs. Lew for over 33 years (same one).
I think Hawaii is learning that they ain’t playing in the WAC this evening. I think Georgia is making a pretty convincing case that the would have acquitted themselves quite nicely in the Championship Game.
By Steamboat
January 1, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Lew, yeah, Dogs look good. You never know in a game like this… Hawaii might’ve thrown it all over the field against us, but it looks like we’re just too big and fast for them. No great surprise.
It’s just too bad how the bowl matchups work. UGA vs. USC would’ve been a monster Rose Bowl (or Sugar - whatever). Instead, both games are bad matchups, barring some kind of huge turnaround by the Rainbows.
I understand that a playoff is not in the near future, but aside from that, I think the “conference tie-ins” are the next greatest evil in the bowl system.
LSU-Ohio State - okay. But then, how ‘bout GA-USC, and Oklahoma-VA Tech. Games worth watching.
And, Urban better find a real running game (not just a wide receiver getting handoffs) if the Gators are gonna hang with UGA next year. Go Dawgs!
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
who the hell are these broadcasters for the sugar bowl? this is the worst announcing & broadcast production i have seen of a college football game all season. horrendous.
By Choppinmama
January 2, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Looks like those Luau Boys will have a looong ride home. Congrats UGA!! A nice bowl game win to get you through the off season.
Now………on to the baseball season.
My son and dau-in-law have a great sign in their sports room:
We Interrupt This Marriage To Bring You The Baseball Season
My Choppinpapa (of 30+ yrs also) says he will make one for me ‘cause I covet that one so, and because it is the truest truth for me and ‘papa.
By Choppinmama
January 2, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
DOB: Brand-spanking new year deserves a brand-spanking new blog don’cha think? You’ve officially had at least 24 hours to recover from any excess celebrating and to lose that ringing sensation in your ears from the concert.
My dial-up is taking sooooo loooong to load up. Have pity…..
By bops
January 2, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this
I thinks its time the Braves show the fans that they are committed to winning. They need to sign Tex and Francouer by spring training. If not, Tex is as good as gone in ‘09
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 2, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this
Congratulations to my DAWGS ! They finished with a flourish. It’s to bad that the BCS system could not give the Bulldogs a worthy opponent.
Braveheart , you and a lot of other fans are not paying attention , at all.
Tim Hudson is every bit the superstar. Read any scouting report on him and you will see the following three words : True Staff Ace.
After nine full seasons , his numbers are every bit as good as Greg Maddux , John Smoltz and Tom Glavine when comparing the three of them after the same period of time. Here are the comparison numbers :
Tim Hudson : 135-70 .659 winning percentage
Greg Maddux : 150-93 .617 winning percentage
John Smoltz : 114-90 .558 winning percentage
Tom Glavine : 139-92 .601 winning percentage
With the realization that the last three are Hall of Famers , in about ten years , barring a career ending injury….. We will be saying the same thing about Tim Hudson.
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 4:42 AM | Link to this
Coach, congrats to your Dawgs. Too bad there is no playoff system. They’d have a great shot. The best game of the day was that Florida/Michigan game - that’s precisely what we’d see all the time if there was a playoff system. Oh well.
As for Hudson, I have been paying attention. Paying attention is not just eyeballing general overalls but entails looking at details and trends. When he was with Oakland, he was a superstar. Since he has been a Brave, he has merely been a star.
In Oakland, he only had one season of 6 where his ERA was less than 29% better than average. And in that one season, he had his only 20 win season.
But as a Brave, he has had 3 seasons where his ERA has been less than 29% better than average. But his 2005 ERA+ of 120 and his 2007 ERA+ of 128 still make him darn good. But that is not superstar stuff. Especially not when he hung a 91 in between.
In Oakland, he had a .708 win percentage. Superstar stuff.
With the Braves, he has had a .581 win percentage. That makes him merely a star at this point.
After August 8th last year, the Braves were 2-5 in his starts and he had an ERA of about 4.30. The Braves needed him to be a clutch superstar at that point. He did not come through.
That was an interesting juxtaposition you did with Hudson versus the first 9 years of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine. But it also ignores trends.
Hudson was a superstar his first 6 years before sliding the last 3 years down to a star.
Maddux was a scrub his first 2 years, became a star like Hudson is now over his next 4 seasons, and then launched into becoming a superstar over his next 11 seasons before sliding down to slightly above average for the past 5 seasons. His ERA+ never dipped below 125 during his superstar years.
Smoltz was a scrub his first year, a budding star over the next 6 years, and then has been a superstar over his past 12 seasons. Since 1995, Smoltz has never had an ERA+ under 127.
Glavine was a scrub his first 2 seasons, average his next 2 seasons, a superstar his next 12 seasons, and just an aging star his last 5 seasons. From 1991 until 2002, Glavine only had 2 seasons where his ERA+ dipped below 125.
Maybe I should be more generous to Hudson and say that he is still a superstar in that he has only had 2 seasons in his 9 year career where his ERA+ was less then 120. But the downward trend with Hudson as compared to the upward trend with Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine in years 7, 8, and 9 is troubling.
In years 7, 8, & 9:
Maddux, 56-27, .675 win %
Smoltz, 42-25, .627 win %
Glavine, 51-22, .699 win %
Hudson, 43-31, .581 win %
That paints quite a different picture than the general stats you posted for their combined first 9 seasons:
Tim Hudson : 135-70 .659 winning percentage
Greg Maddux : 150-93 .617 winning percentage
John Smoltz : 114-90 .558 winning percentage
Tom Glavine : 139-92 .601 winning percentage
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 2, 2008 6:25 AM | Link to this
Braveheart , you are grasping at straws trying to cover your butt. Last off-season you and a lot of other fans wanted to trade Tim Hudson and now you want split hairs between the words Star and Superstar.
The man won 16 games in 2007 , he made 25 quality starts , the team went 22-12 in his 34 starts. Hudson had an all-star caliber season. He is an ACE type pitcher and a number one starter.
Twist the numbers anyway you want , I’ll go to war with Tim Hudson any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
What I find troubling is the fact amateurs like yourself can’t seem to differentiate between a good pitcher and a great pitcher. But , then again , Ive been around this game all my life and don’t expect most fans who have never played or been involved in baseball to have a deep understanding about how the game is played.
I’ll make it easy for you. What makes Tim Hudson a future Hall of Fame pitcher ? It’s one word , has seven letters and starts with the letter C.
All great pitchers have it.
By Nolie
January 2, 2008 6:36 AM | Link to this
In years 7, 8, & 9:
Maddux, 56-27, .675 win %
Smoltz, 42-25, .627 win %
Glavine, 51-22, .699 win %
Hudson, 43-31, .581 win %BRAVEHEART
In those three years that you are citing, Hudson played on a team with a .520 winning%. I’m too lazy to look up the exact numbers for the Braves during those seasons for the other three guys, but we all know that it was WAY more than .520. Do the comparative math if you want. On top of that we can’t place all that much emphasis on won-loss record anyway. It is way tooo influences by considerations beyond the starting pitcher’s control. The ERA+ is more reliable and shows that other than 2006 Huddy has been a very good pitcher if not quite in Mad Dog’s class.
By flange1
January 2, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year to All!
Gil, your 1/1/08 10:04 post is right on the mark. I think I agree with your thoughts on this one too. Much to much knowledge for a youth!
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
nOLIE, I agree with your point. He was basing it on something as simplistic as win %, so I was coming back at him with it.
Coach, enough already with boasting about how much you know about baseball because you coach pony leaguers. It is so sad. BTW, coaching tee ball doesn’t quite count for “being around the game all my life.”
If you knew so much, you wouldn’t have to pump up your pathetic pee wee league coaching credentials so much. We could just tell by your posts. Unfortunately, we can’t. Hence, your need to boast about how you led the third period gym class to a victory in the kickball championship over the fourth period gym class. Sadly, it doesn’t impress me.
What I find troubling is the fact amateurs like yourself can’t seem to differentiate between a good pitcher and a great pitcher.
What I find troubling is the fact that concrete thinkers like Coach can’t seem to differentiate between a good pitcher, a very good pitcher, and a great pitcher. Tim Hudson used to be great. He’s just very good now.
Gil, told me last night that I should not argue with children. Gil, what about adults like Coach who have the mental capacity of a child?
BTW, Coach, you will never find a post from me saying Tim Hudson should have been traded.
By nOLIE
January 2, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
DOB I believe that we have a $20 mil option for Hampton in ‘09. is that correct? Is there a buy-out amount and are we responsible for it if the Braves pass? Thank you.
By David O'Brien
January 2, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
nOLIE, buy out of Hampton isn’t an issue. Already paid or will be, by either Colorado or Florida (I forget which), as part of the trade. Option and buyout aren’t a factor for Braves….
Choppinmama, sorry to disappoint, but we’re driving back from Charleston today. You need to get something besides dial-up for the new year, my dear.
By nOLIE
January 2, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
nOLIE, buy out of Hampton isn’t an issue. Already paid or will be, by either Colorado or Florida (I forget which), as part of the trade. Option and buyout aren’t a factor for Braves….DOB
Thanks. I thought it was Colo, but I wasn’t certain.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
I like puzzles. A seven letter word, beginning with “C”, that all great pitchers have…
Dawgs are losers. Sorry, but they’re babies. Challenging that play was dumb. I didn’t see it of course…
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
January 2, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Probably safe to say no matter what Hampton does this upcoming season it will be his last with the Braves. If he bombs, the Braves would have no use for him and no reason to throw away money by resigning him. If he has a strong comeback season, he will likely command more money than what he is really worth and the Braves won’t sign him because he will be too pricey.
By Overlord
January 2, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Braveheart when exactly did i said Smoltz is not a superstar? Have never typed anything like that.
As for Hudson he is doing what a superstar does, and that is adjust. He had a good year when he got here, then a really bad year in 2006, but las year was even better than 2005, in fact his stats were better last year than his last year in Oakland, guess that is load enough, i think he was injuried or something that year, but had enough IP to make the comparation.
By BossLady
January 2, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
322 blogs in 5 days is not that much and we have had over a 1000 in less.
By Lew
January 2, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
McFann-Considering they won the challenge, I guess they were right, whereas when Hawaii made their challenge, it was denied. How can this make losers of the Dawgs?
As a Tech fan, you should maybe not try talking smack against the Dawgs, who kicked Yellow Jacket behind in their own game. BTW-How was Tech’s Bowl game. Happy with those results, are you?
My Dawgs dominated the Nation’s only (previously) undefeated team. They took the much vaunted Hawaii quarterback and made him look pitiful. EIGHT sacks. THREE interceptions and another fumble recovered for a TD. The game was not even as close as the uneven score suggests.
If I were you McFann, I’d get used to the fact that the Dawgs will likely contend for the National Championship for the next two years, if not longer. Get used to the fact they will thump Tech for years to come and likely take out damn near anyone they play. A sophomore quarterback. A Freshman offensive line. A Freshman running back who just put up the fourth highest rushing yards in a season in SEC history for Freshman-behind only Herschel Walker, Jamal Lewis and Emmitt Smith. We won’t even discuss the guy they redshirted this year who was the top Running Back prospect in the nation last year.
Oh yeah. They also have a Coach who they felt no need to fire for ineptness like them Jackets did.
By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy
January 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Got the newest Shooter Jennings cd for Christmas and it’s solid…very solid. The Junior Hoss is building quite an impressive discography. He’s three for three so far.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Good job Braveheart , that was a very highly intelligent reply. You resort to insults and grade school bickering when exposed as an amateur. Being wrong and not willing to admit it is called a character flaw , you need to work on that my friend.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Lew, as a matter of fact, no. I’m not happy with the results of the “Humanitarian” Bowl. Did you expect me to be? To be honest, I don’t care what Georgia does when they aren’t playing Tech, I’m just sick of them winning in the same way that I’m sick of the Arizona D-Backs or the Philadelphia Phillies winning. I just have a certain contempt for those teams. Sorry, that’s never going to change. I wouldn’t even give a darn about football if my father hadn’t gone to Tech. So let’s turn the focus of this blog back to baseball, shall we?
BTW, the only reason Hawaii was undefeated was because they didn’t play anybody good, or so I’ve been told. So they’re obviously not that great of a team.
By Overlord
January 2, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Robert you cant assume that if hampton comes with a big season his price for 2009 will be higher than it should be. He and his agent know he is fragile and old, them might give some discount (could be). He knows he has not worked for his money last 2 years. You could be surprised.
By Lew
January 2, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
McFann-Need I remind you that it was you that opened her cyber mouth and called the Dawgs losers? Now you want to change the subject?
First you gripe because I didn’t get you your Wurlitzer quickly enough and now you rag on the Dawgs? Treading on awfully thin ice here, Grasshopper-and it’s starting to crack.
By TennesseePaul
January 2, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Braveheart: you will never find a post from me saying Tim Hudson should have been traded
You weren’t on that bandwagon? Sheeeesh. That was a good one. The keg was cold all the way to the end. Helluva good time.
I’m not on the Tex MVP bandwagon. I’ll stick with the Chipper MVP bandwagon and the Smoltz Cy Young bandwagon. Mainly out of bias.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Oh, I wasn’t griping, Mr. Lew. Just asking. I didn’t mean to set you off. Listen, I’m willing to forgive and forget if you are. How ‘bout it? Take your time, man. Take your time.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
January 2, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Overlord, I could be but doubt it. If Hampton goes lets say 15-5, you don’t think there will be teams who take a chance and overpay him? Don’t forget Ted Lilly, a pitcher with a lifetime record under .500, received a contract from the Cubs paying him $10 mil a year. Look at what Carlos Silva just got. Hell, look at what Matt Clement is likely to receive as well as Freddy Garcia.
Sure, Hampton may give a discount but don’t count on it. Besides, would it really be wise for the Braves to resign him good year or not when that money could be well be spent other places?
By McFann
January 2, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
BTW, Lew, I had no idea you were a Dawg fan. Sheesh. If I’d have known that I would have kept my “cyber mouth” shut.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
sorry, overlord i meant to address braveheart
By McFann
January 2, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
OH DANGIT!!!
Lew, I am VERY VERY VERY sorry about what I said. I’m hitting myself for it. I completely forgot that you went to that school!! Dangit!! PLEASE don’t hold that against me!! I sorta lost my head. Me and my big cyber mouth!! What an idiot.
By Overlord
January 2, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Robert, i dont think braves should be resigning hampton even if he goes 15-5 if it is not for something like glavines 8M, other than that is way too risky, and i wouldnt take him for more than a year at least in 2009, if he goes for more than 200 in 2009 then i would think for a 3 year deal. Of course this thing are not even close to happen, so braves i think will focus on another star to back up hudson in 2009. Hopefully our youngsters fill that need from within.
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Good job Braveheart , that was a very highly intelligent reply. You resort to insults and grade school bickering when exposed as an amateur. Being wrong and not willing to admit it is called a character flaw , you need to work on that my friend.
Just responding in kind there Coach. Or did you forget you were the one who said this…… What I find troubling is the fact amateurs like yourself……. Ive been around this game all my life and don’t expect most fans who have never played or been involved in baseball to have a deep understanding about how the game is played.
Yeah, that wasn’t childish or a personal attack. Whatever Coach. My original post just stated my opinion. You were the one who brought it to a personal level with insults, as you always do. You could have just provided your stats and research as a good rebuttal but you couldn’t do that. So, don’t cry when you people respond in kind.
Overall, for his career, Hudson has been a superstar. But for the past 4 seasons, he has only been very good and not great. He’s only been a star for the last 4 seasons. Maddux has been a superstar for his career but has been merely slightly above average the last 5 seasons. Glavine has been a superstar for his career but has been only an aging star the last 5 years. Smoltz has remained a superstar for the past 12 seasons. But, as usual, you are incapable of more than superficial analysis.
Answer me this Coach, since you like to boast, what is the highest level of baseball you ever played? I really don’t care and most here don’t care but you keep alluding to it, so let’s hear about your glory days in high school. I’ll even cue up the Springsteen song for ya when you respond.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
if you want to really consider all of the ebbs and flows pitchers go through, why generalize per season performance? i only say this because you criticize coach’s career performance mindset.
the truth is, you cant know what a pitcher will do year to year based on the previous year. you cant even know game to game or pitch to pitch to be accurate.
if you take what you are saying to its logical conclusion, no one can ever KNOW ANYTHING, so why even discuss it?
concrete thinking is absolutely necessary if we are ever going to make any statements or have any discussions.
coach is using huddy’s career to show he’s and ace and you are using his year to year results to show that he aint one.
disagree on the premise of the argument if you need to…you and i have done that recently on the andruw for cleanup discussion.
but, reducing someone to an idiot because they arent using the same concrete thinking that you are is unfair.
is huddy a staff ace? if wang can be one for the yankees, huddy could be one for us.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
McFann you might want to leave the football talk to those who at least pay attention to it. i only say that because you told us you dont really pay attention to it, and thats pretty obvious.
the dawgs a bunch of losers and babies? that hawaii QB was the biggest baby ive ever seen in a college football game. when he got sacked for the 9th or tenth time, they took him out of the game for good, and everytime they cut to him, he was crying.
hawaii was way out of their league and dint belng there.
im glad georgia won, but im kinda ticked to, because they got totally gypped by the BCS. georgia deserved a much better opponent in a bowl game. i think they did the right thing to totally run hawaii into the ground to show the world they deserved better.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
and coach degrading the rest of the blog isnt the way to go. you have no idea what experience the rest of us have with the game. i could be john smoltz for all you know.
By Lew
January 2, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
McFann-I’m not angry-just cautioning you a bit. If you are going to talk trash about another team, you at least should have your facts straight-or in your case, actually have facts. At least when Renegator puts down the Dawgs in favor of the Hated Gators, Rene has something to fall back on-Florida has ruined way too many UGA seasons. Not so for Tech-at least not in four or five decades, anyway.
To call a team losers because of a reviewed play that you acknowledged you didn’t even see is hardly the smartest thing you could do. To call them losers because they win more than you’re comfortable with is somewhat questionable, as well. Not even sure what you meant by the DBacks and Phillies winning too much is all about. THAT one makes no sense as the DBacks have made some of the dumbest signing moves and the Phillies only mangaged to sneak into a division title because the Mets tanked. It was the Phillies first success in 14 seasons. Not sure anyone would accuse them of winning much of anything. Certainly the Phillies fans wouldn’t claim that.
Stop and think, Grasshopper. Reason it out and come up with something you might use to back up your assertions. You will look that much smarter by so doing. If not, then not so much.
By Thrillhouse44
January 2, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
DAP/John Smoltz, PLEASE grow the mustache back out!
By EM
January 2, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
i agree with the smoltz mustache comment.
hey, speaking of smoltzie, here’s a great piece on that trade back in the day. great job, bobby cox!
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/10/great-moments-in-fleece-history-the-john-smoltz-trade/
By SC
January 2, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Braveheart and Coach: You two sound like a couple of girls. You have entirely too much time by extracting information from sources and quibbling about stupid stuff.
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
DAP, I’m not criticizing Hudson. Just saying that he is merely very good now, not great anymore. It’s just a lowering of expectations out of him. His ERA+ for the past 4 years has been 129, 120, 91, 128.
BY comparison, the ERA+ numbers for Smoltz the last 4 seasons he has been a starter are 140, 138, 127, 137.
Compare ERA+ numbers to SAT scores. Over the last 4 years, Hudson has scored a 1290, 1200, 910, and 1280. Very good scores. Smoltz however has scored a 1400, 1380, 1270, and 1370. Smoltz is gonna have the ability to get into better schools with his scores.
It’s just the way I like to look at it. If someone disagrees, then so be it. You have always been respectful when you disagree and I appreciate it. But if he is gonna start delivering baseless personal attacks, then some will be headed his way. I should be better than that but I’m not. I’m trying to work on it.
When I look at ERA+ and OPS+ numbers, I like to compare it to the way some measure IQ. For example, here is one explanation of scores:
85-114 - Average
115-124 - Above average (university students)
125-134 - Gifted (e.g., graduate students)
135-144 - Highly gifted (e.g., intellectuals)
145-154 - Genius (e.g., professors)
155-164 - Genius (e.g., Nobel Prize winners)
165-179 - High genius
180-200 - Highest genius
That to me is a good measuring stick for measuring OPS+ and ERA+. For me, to be a superstar, you need to be hanging out at least in the highly gifted category.
Oh well, who cares. I need a break from blogging for a while.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
I guess I called them losers ‘cause they were going to win the game no matter how that call went.
What I meant by the D-Backs and Phillies winning is that I don’t like them just because I don’t. The Mets I want to lose because they’ve almost always won since I started caring. The Phillies I don’t like just because they’re annoying. The D-Backs I don’t like because the Braves can never beat them and because of May 20, 2006.
Like I said, I am very sorry for what I said. It was really stupid. Believe me, once I took a look at Hawaii, I didn’t want them to win, either. I just decided that I didn’t really care too much since Georgia Tech had already lost their Bowl. Yeah, I’m gonna start thinkin’ out what I type before I type it.
Well, that’s that. From now on, I’m leaving the football up to you people who care.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
braveheart HUA, brother.
McFann Yeah, I’m gonna start thinkin’ out what I type before I type it.
always a good plan, McFann. i always have to remember to do that, myself.
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Braveheart and Coach: You two sound like a couple of girls. You have entirely too much time by extracting information from sources and quibbling about stupid stuff.
SC, sadly, even though you are talking about me, I couldn’t agree more. Have a good day.
By Lew
January 2, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
The Phillies Annoying? Let us not get into the topic of annoyance. Way to much to get into on that front!! It is wise to leave subjects one knows little about alone. One thing that is certain-someone here always knows about almost anything and you are likely to be told that you know nothing. Happens all the time.
Now Baseball-Just read the new Chop Talk. The Frank Wren column was quite interesting. He spent much time extolling the virtues of Josh Anderson as a base stealer. He’s quite impressed with his speed and since no one else was mentioned (except Schaeffer not being ready), I would say that the impression was given that it is Anderson’s job to lose in ST.
Bobby Cox’s column also speaks of pitching. He and Wren both think it quite possible that Jurjens and Jo Jo could well start the season either in the rotation or in AAA. Looks like Coach’s (and my own) impression of Jeff Bennett is shared by the Braves’ Brass. BC also makes mention of Chuck James who had “a good season.” That should tell you that Chuck is not going to be traded or sent to the pen.
By mo in the boonies
January 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I do for one, I think the Braves are going to be the top dog in the NL East in 2008. Gil From your mouth to God’s ears! (Can say that on here?)
chopping mama My plants froze on Oct 15th. And we have two feet of “lake effects”. BTW, sometimes women post anonymously, so one never knows exactly how many there are.
Lew we have a fat, short-legged dog, his belly is about two inches off the floor, so he can’t go out to do his business until we shovel a path for him.
Saw a lot of football yesterday, almost too much. Switched off the Georgia /Hawaii game in the 3rd quarter, just too painful to watch. I thought Hawaii was sending over their college team, but what showed up was, “The Little Sisters Of The Poor”. Not nice to sack a Nun that much! God will get you for that!
By Renegator
January 2, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Lew:
Thanks for the shout out in your post to McFann. Unfortunately, I have keep my mouth shut now because the Gators lost to sorry Michigan yesterday. What an embarrassment - although Michigan played better than I have ever seen them play.
Luckily the Dogs (can’t spell it the other way) represented the SEC well in proving that Hawaii didn’t belong with the big boys of the SEC.
By Jason
January 2, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Where is all this money? Team prez said they would have more money to spend! What 8 mil for Glavin. LOL Lets just hope next year we dont give away Texiera! I mean really, every year we let solid performers go because they think their cheep minor leaguers can do the job. Yeah right! SPEND SOME MONEY PLEASE!!!
By Lew
January 2, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Mo-My dog is quite large and has long enough legs-there is just way too much snow. Even the deer population is likely to go way down this year. They can’t forage with over two feet of snow on the ground from now through May.
I agree that the sUGAr Bowl was painful to watch (if you thought Hawaii would stand a chance). I’m not quite sure what happened to the team we were supposed to see. It sure wasn’t the one that showed up. I guess they should stick to playing teams from the WAC-all three with winning records. It should be interesting seeing them open against Florida in the Swamp next September-especially without the quarterback that didn’t turn out to be so great.
By Hammy the Brave
January 2, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Sounds like you’ve had a good Christmas and New Years. Enjoyed reading of your NC/SC travels, since I’ve lived in both states myself. By the way, I wouldn’t let the Jessica Simpson pairing bias you against John Mayer’s work. I consider him to be among the best blues-influenced musicians in popular American music today.
Could you check with your Marlins connections to see if there is any kind of “unwritten” rule to discourage Braves-Marlins trades? I don’t remember them making any trades of note since the Hampton affair. That leads to my next idea, if FW is still looking to strengthen the bullpen, to trade for a Marlins bullpen lefty. It looks like Reynel Pinto may be a lefty who could setup Soriano as closer, since Pinto appears to have similar batting avg. against #’s from righties to lefties.
Don’t you think FW should better address our lack of outfield and righty power depth, by taking a flyer on some guys? Say signing Kevin Mench to a minor league deal for Richmond, and trading for Juan Rivera from the Angels(who should be available cheap after coming off a broken leg, and the Angels ridiculous outfield depth now)?
Also, you may still disagree, but I believe Ryan Freel would be a good righty platoon partner in CF and could make that position a stronger option to hit leadoff(a more complete option than Johnson/Escobar). Freel had 3 good leadoff yrs this decade, with an avg. in the .270’s. OBP in the .370’s and sb’s in the 30’s.
Would FW consider signing Jose Valentin as a free agent, or trading for Wilson Betemit, to have a more solid option to backup Chipper at 3rd? I am glad he got Infante and Anderson to beef up the bench, and I really hope Javy has improved defensively and can be a bat to back up Mccann. However, I still believe he’s not looking seriously at Chipper’s injury history, and even if Aybar could start the year there, I don’t believe he has enough power to be a longterm backup option at 3rd.
Love to hear your ideas on this,
Hammy the Brave
By mo in the boonies
January 2, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
*Renegator I live in Michigan, but I also thought they played better than they have in a long time. We fans blame it on Carr. I was beginning to suspect the new coach had sat in on some of the pre-game plans. For many years the Big Ten were a powerhouse division, but then they got stuck in that three yards and a cloud of dust crap, and refused to pass even when they had a good passing Quarterback. Now next year with a passing game and perhaps the spread offense, Michigan will again be a tough contender. Also they better forget about those soft sisters, they are picking up to round out their schedules, I think that all began when the Big Ten became the Big Ten plus one. (Penn State) Why, I don’t know. Maybe Steve from Ohio can provide an answer.
By Choppinmama
January 2, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
DOB: I’m not disappointed, and I will be happy to patiently await your Blog #1 of 2008.
Trust me, if their was ANY other way besides dial-up, we’d have it already. It’s a treat to go to the library in town and use their computers. We are in the booniest of boonies.
Thank goodness for DirectTV and their baseball package so I can watch most of our games…. and watch our guys with their baseball packages!
Allllrighty then - safe travels, Dave O’B.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
hammy the brave i know you addressed DOB and not me, but i wanted to opine on a question of yours.
if chipper gets hurt and it looks like he will miss significant time, expect escobar to move over to third and a callup of brent lillibridge.
i think this will happen if chipper goes on the 15 day DL at any point this season.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
For heaven’s sake, mo, those weren’t Nuns on the feild, they were the students of the Hawaii School for Young Girls.
That was mean.
Think about what you type before you type it…Think about what you type before you type it…
By Renegator
January 2, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Mo:
I was shocked to see Michigan moving the ball so well both in the air and on the ground. Granted, Florida’s defense is young and didn’t play well - but I was impressed with Michigan’s offense.
By Choppinmama
January 2, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
mo, my fellow boonie-dweller: just came in from re-wrapping the citrus and a couple of tropicals for a 27 degree night. My bananas are already mush, but most everything else looks ok.
We’ve had wind gusts up to 40 mph today, blowing a lot of water down the river.
I’ve been looking through my 2008 Braves calendar and walking down memory lane. So long Mr. May, Bob Wickman; Mr. Sept, AJ; and Mr. Oct., Edgar R. They’ve got Smoltz pushed back to December. Don’t they know he the true Mr. October on the team these days?
I also just ran across my old Kudzu Kids tshirt. Remember them? C Harris, JD Drew and AJ. Kinda sad to see them all in our rear view mirror. I’d never make it as a GM.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
I have my reasons for not thinking the Phillies are annoying, but one might argue that they aren’t real reasons. If you want me to name them, let me know. Otherwise, I’m keeping them to myself.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama
I saw that Braves calendar at the book store. They really should have waited a bit before they made that. There’s a lota guys in there that the Braves don’t have.
Lucky for me, my sister made my calendar. It only contains one Brave player. ((: ) Thank goodness we still have him…
By ncscoots
January 2, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Now next year with a passing game and perhaps the spread offense, Michigan will again be a tough contender.
Mercy. Michigan and a spread offense? Cats living with dogs.
BTW, it might occur that the Big Ten was a powerhouse division BECAUSE of that three yards and a cloud of dust “crap”, not in spite of it. Woody and Bo beat on you ‘til your girlfriend cried, and they didn’t do it with flankers and zoom routes.
By Frenchy 4Ever
January 2, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Like Frenchy is better than McCann, Chutes and Ladders is better than Hungry, Hungry Hippos.
By TennesseePaul
January 2, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
DAP: if chipper gets hurt and it looks like he will miss significant time, expect escobar to move over to third and a callup of brent lillibridge.
You could be right, but I think this mainly depends on the bench. If Aybar is still on the team then I’d imagine they’d play him at third and pull up a minor leaguer for the bench. Or, if the pitching isn’t producing as well as we hoped, call up another pitcher for the pen.
By You And Idiot Nominee of the Week
January 2, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
GLENDALE, Ariz. — Oklahoma starting defensive tackle DeMarcus Granger will miss the Fiesta Bowl after being sent home from Arizona following an arrest for shoplifting. Granger, 21, was arrested Saturday IN TEMPE after he tried to STEAL A JACKET from the Burlington Coat Factory INSIDE ARIZONA Mills Mall, Tempe police reported.
There is stupid. Then there is stupid. What do you need a jacket in Arizona for? And who needs a coat in Arizona bad enough to steal one? Demarcus Granger, your and idiot!
By Choppinmama
January 2, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
McFann - hmmmmmmm, how many guesses do I get?
By McFann
January 2, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Hey, Frenchy 4Ever, what are you trying to imply with that statement, anyway?
Dummy.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Ooohh, now that’s sad. That person posted as “You And Idiot Nominee of the Week”. Should have been *Your And Idiot…” Now that’s a shame.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, Choppinmama, how about I make it easy on ya and give you 16 guesses…
LOL
By Redd Foxx
January 2, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Macfan, It’s YOU BIG DUMMY.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Ha Ha!! That’s funny, Redd. But my name is McFann.
By Redd Foxx
January 2, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Okay, Mickey Fan.
By David O'Brien
January 2, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
For any of you who might ever be taking the backroads route to Charleston (highway 78 crom outside August across S.C., instead of taking expressways up to Columbus and back down to Charleston), then I’d strongly recommend a tiny restaurant in the tiny town of Blackville, about a half-hour east of Augusta. It’s called Miller’s Bread Basket, and they have incredible chicken casserole, fried chicken, mac&cheese, green beans, corn, etc. And save room for the pie (apple, blueberry, pecan, coconut cream, shoo-fly pie … they’ve got it all).
The restaurant is run by Mennonites. They have a website if you want the address. Word is Tiger Woods once stopped by there after playing at Augusta….
Also, the Lost Dog Cafe on Folly Beach near Charleston is outstanding. I got a great piece of blackened dolphin on a bed of cheese grits and broccoli.
By Daveinzona
January 2, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Nominee of the week @5:19pm The average high in Tucson this time of the year is 63 and the average low is 38. That’s jacket weather to me.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
DOB, you ate dolphin?? Aaaa!! Poor Flipper!!
By David O'Brien
January 2, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
McFann, you’re thinking of dolphin, as in the mammal. I’m talking mahi-mahi. You don’t get out to many restaurants, I’m guessing?
By Gil in Mechanicsville
January 2, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
McFann… That is dolphin the fish, not to be confused with Tuna the Dolphin. Flipper was a porpoise, but I am sure you knew that.
And this just in…. Bud Selig is still an idiot but not likely to change occupations anytime soon.
By DonCoburleone
January 2, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
In my opinion: Jim Rice: NO; Bert Blyleven: YES; Andre Dawson: YES; Jack Morris: NO; Goose Gossage: YES; Don Mattingly: NO; Tim Raines: NO.
That is interesting DOB… Most people who say Yes to Andre Dawson also say yes to Jim Rice (and vice versa)… But we are definately on the same page with Bert Blyleven, it is flat out strange that he is not in… Most of his teams stank, so his Win/Loss record doesn’t reflect his overall performance/statistics. The dumbest thing is (and one of the reasons I really don’t like hall voting) is that if he had gotten a measely 13 more wins, he probably gets in his second year of eligibility with 85 or 90% of the vote. But because he only won 287 and not 300, HE MUST BE KEPT OUT!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
January 2, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Of course there was a time when commecial tuna fishermen would “fish on the dolphins” causing the porpoises to drown after being caught in the nets.
It appears the the Tuna is about to cast his net over the Dolphins and put them through the old grinder.
By David O'Brien
January 2, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
DonC, gotta admit I’m wishy-washy about Rice. One minute I say yes, the next no. Don’t feel strongly either way.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
I don’t go to restaurants that serve dolphin.
Flipper was a porpoise? Since when? Have you ever seen Flipper? Have you ever seen a porpoise? Just look at a picture of the two and you’ll know that Flipper is a dolphin.
By Lew
January 2, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
McFann-The Dolphin referred to in the seafood dish Mahi Mahi is called an Old World Dolphin. It is not flipper. They are nothing alike. The Old World Dolphin appears on ancient Greek Vases. Flipper appears on TVLand on the cable.
By McFann
January 2, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Flipper’s on TVLand? When?
By Flipper
January 2, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Never trust the Gorton’s Fisherman.
By DAP
January 2, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
tenpaul you could be right about aybar playing 3rd for two weeks if chipper gets hurt, but i cant say im really confident about that.
of course theres no reason for me to be more confident about bringing lillibridge up, so i guess ill let the guys who get paid for that make that decision.
whats the batting order look like if chipper’s out? i think we will see aybar leadoff and escobar 2nd, with kelly johnson taking chipper’s place in the third spot.
but if you bring lillibridge up, do you stick him in the leadoff spot, or where do you put him?
man im ready for baseball to start.
By Nolie
January 3, 2008 4:10 AM | Link to this
That is interesting DOB… Most people who say Yes to Andre Dawson also say yes to Jim Rice (and vice versa)DonC
I wonder why that would be? They weren’t much alike as players. Dawson was a five tool kinda guy who played for a lot of years and Rice was a one tool kinda guy who had a great run and then fell apart kinda early. I like Dawson by a good margin over Rice If Andre had good wheels over his entire career he woulda had a really awesome career. I don’t have strong feelings either way about anyone on that list. They could all get in and I’d be ok with it but I would like to see Bly and Hawk get there at least
By Metropolitan Man
January 3, 2008 6:48 AM | Link to this
Good morning braves bloggers, great NY weather we are having here lately. Remember to stay warm by wearing your METS long John’s under your clothes.
By Shaun
January 3, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
The dumbest thing is (and one of the reasons I really don’t like hall voting) is that if he had gotten a measely 13 more wins, he probably gets in his second year of eligibility with 85 or 90% of the vote. But because he only won 287 and not 300, HE MUST BE KEPT OUT!
DonCoburleone, I agree and I feel the same way about Raines. If Rickey Henderson had not come along, Raines would be considered one of if not the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and would be a first-ballot guy.
By DAP
January 3, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Metro Man the only mets merchandise i would use is toilet paper.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
DAP-It would likely lead to Colon polyps-or is that how they introduced the steroids in Mets’ Land?
By Lew
January 3, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Everyone in the South cold enough? Got those heaters cranked up? Just be glad you’re in the warm zone. Minus 7 last night and it’s 2 right now. We’re not going to hit double digit temperatures today. Supposed to go back up to 50 next week-probably long enough for things to melt and then refreeze. Where’s that Global Warming when we really need it?
By MGL
January 3, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Lew,
30 in Orlando this morning Brrrrr!!
By Thrillhouse44
January 3, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
17 in Roanoke, VA when I left for work. That’s about as cold as the Muts’ lineup in September.
By DAP
January 3, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Lew i was just complaining on air this morning about how cold it is here, but i threw in that i was being a big baby because this is nothing compared to alot of places!
but hey, thats why we live down here, so we dont have to put up with all that cold.
By Choppinmama
January 3, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Lew: we’re all weather wimps down here in the coastal south. Fire’s going, plants still covered in the 27 degree chill. We’re going to venture out to Wallyworld in a few minutes. Now, where is my snowsuit?
By Atlanta Snowman
January 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Lew - please don’t say “Global Warming”, it confuses the stupid people. “Climate Change” is the preferred terminology.
Thanks, A.S.
By Mackey Sasser
January 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
18 last night in Durham, NC. Of course, it’s supposed to be 70 on Monday. That, friends, is cold getting weather.
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Lew, actually the climate experts say that’s the full picture of Global Warming — extreme weather in of all kids (hot and cold, wet and dry, etc) and record-breaking temperatures at both ends of the thermometer.
This is our coldest weather in several years down here in Atlanta, and we had record highs on a bunch of days this summer and also this fall.
By ssiscribe
January 3, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Yeah, 15 here on the southside of the A this morning, the same place where we topped 100 degrees nine times in August.
Of course, that was better, the 100-plus degrees, because there was baseball then. Now? Just blowout BCS games (Bradley’s right; blow that mutha up).
—30—
By Atlanta Snowman
January 3, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Mackey, Quit worrying so much! Just LET THE BALL GO!
A.S.
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Weather wimps in the South? Lies. All of it a pack of humid lies. Guys, if you want weather wimps, come out here to So Cal. You’ll get to see grown men wearing scarves in 60 temperatures. Global Warming is a real head scratcher. Just don’t forget to pack the sweater vest.
By nOLIE
January 3, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
This is our coldest weather in several years down here in Atlanta, and we had record highs on a bunch of days this summer and also this fall.DOB
wind chill in southern Florida of 12-15. frozen water pipes around town for the first time in the 2o some years I’ve been down here.Coulda stayed in Ohio or Pennsylvania or Maryland or Colorado/Wyoming/Montana for this. Gimme back my 75 degree days and 58 degree nights…puleeeese. Brrr
By Rickey Henderson
January 3, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
If Rickey Henderson had not come along, Raines would be considered one of if not the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and would be a first-ballot guy.
So, it’s all Rickey’s fault. Rickey is not happy. Rickey gets upset when people say Rickey is to blame for others short comings. If others were as good as Rickey, Rickey would have still been better.
By DAP
January 3, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
i definitely wouldnt call southerners weather wimps. thats too broad, especially since we endure extremely hot and humid conditions in the summer..and the fall. id say cold weather wimps.
and guys, i dont think we should engage in any global warming/climate change talk. that counts as politics, i think.
By DonCoburleone
January 3, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Great article on John Smoltz over at Hardball Times - should make us all feel pretty good at John Smoltz’ 2008 season… In summary, they’ve got him down for 15 wins, 3.75era, 1.20WHIP, and 180 strikeouts in right at 200IP…
My favorite part of the article:
“Smoltz instead relies upon his slider (which actually tops all major league starters in Swinging% and SS/Ball) to get batters out. And while he doesn’t use it all that often, his curveball is also quite good.
Furthermore, it is great to see that Smoltz realizes that these are his two best pitches. I hear it all the time, although I don’t like to say it myself unless I have some real data to back it up, but it seems like Smoltz really “knows how to pitch”. Check out how he uses his pitches in certain counts.
While our first chart shows that he uses his fastball the most overall, he uses the slider the most when he needs to get guys out. He also uses the curve more often in these situations. Judging by this data, I see no reason why Smoltz can’t continue to be successful, even if age takes a couple of MPHs off his fastball.”
By CAR3BOOGIE
January 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Question about Fanfest. I have 2 boys one a Junior in High School the other 10 yrs old. Which age does the event cater to or will both enjoy it.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 3, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
The hardball Times believes that Smoltz will continue to be successful. Ya Think ?????? I’m LMAO :-)
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Car3, both will enjoy it, but I’d guess the younger one might get a bigger kick out of it than the older. But again, I think both would love it, provided they’re baseball fans.
I’ll let you know who’s scheduled to attend among players, soon as the Braves let me know (I just sent a request for a tentative list this morning).
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
DAP, actually, climate change has nothing to do with politics. But I know what you’re talking about, because In this country we have plenty of folks who choose to somehow make it a political issue.
Fortunately, folks here on the blog, at least so far, have merely discussed the fact that we’ve had a lot of extreme weather in the past year. And I don’t see how that’s got anything to do with politics.
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
i dont think we should engage in any global warming/climate change talk. that counts as politics, i think
Slippery slope I suppose. Suddenly the weather is political. I get your drift though DAP. It’s a hot topic with passionate views on both sides which could turn an otherwise friendly blog into a heated name-calling, walk-out-inducing fiasco.
By CAR3BOOGIE
January 3, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB They both love to play, and The little one is named Chipper so he has no choice.
Next time thru Augusta Try Sconyers BBQ.
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Anyone check out the new Law & Order season opener last night? Good stuff. Love the cast tweaks they made….
OK, I’ve been summoned to the downtown office for a meeting to discuss spring training and our opening day baseball special section, so I might have to wait until tomorrow to do a new blog.
Things are kind of slow on here today anyway. Not surprising, however. This is always the slowest couple of weeks of the year for baseball talk, simply because teams do almost nothing in terms of moves (most teams’ offices are closed over Christmas and New Year’s) and because of the football discussions.
By ncscoots
January 3, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Anyone check out the new Law & Order season opener last night? Good stuff. Love the cast tweaks they made
As long as they don’t tweak out that De La Garza chaquita, they can cast Moe, Larry, and Curly, as far as I’m concerned, LOL. She’s got ML All-Star babe-itude.
But, yes, Jeremy Sisto is a big step up in class.
By ncscoots
January 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
…a hot topic…which could turn…into a heated name-calling, walk-out-inducing fiasco.
And that would be different, how exactly, from most of the OTHER topics bruited about in these environs? LOL
By BossLady
January 3, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
415 is not too many blog hits so far and we’ll be alright until tomorrow.
By 22oz
January 3, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
A list for Fanfest would be great, we’re going both days, but it would still be good to know ahead of time. Sooooo glad it is indoors. Standing in a line for 2+ hours in the cold is awful. I will miss catching fly balls though.
By 22oz
January 3, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure Glavine will be there, i heard a radio commercial for Fanfest, and it had Glavine at the end saying “I’ll see you there”, or something to that nature.
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Scoots: =). I just ran a comparison of the middle of the order for streakiness. Teixeira matches up almost identical to Chipper. It’s like they are the same player in terms of the frequency of getting hits of any sort. This is way better than AJ who is still one of the streakiest players out there.
This is, of course, over a career. Single season results will fluctuate. This is promising though. Having a consistent hitter behind Chipper should make for some fun games.
By 22oz
January 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure Glavine will be there. I heard a radio commercial that had Glavine at the end saying “i’ll see you at fanfest” or something to that nature.
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Looks like Billy Beane is at it again. He traded Nick Swisher to the White Sox for Gio Gonzales, Ryan Sweeney, and a minor leaguer. Good trade for both sides.
Also, Beane wants Coco Crisp because he believes Crisp is “the best centerfielder in the game”. But, if Beane does acquire Crisp he wants to do so so he can flip him.
Now, would the A’s approach the Braves with a Crisp for James deal?
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves lineup should be the following (given a centerfielder is not acquired): 1. Escobar 2. K. Johnson 3. Chipper 4. Texieira 5. McCann 6. Francoeur 7. Diaz/B. Jones 8. Anderson/Schafer/Blanco.
Now, I would prefer to have the Anderson/Schafer/Blanco winner hit at the top of the lineup but none of them will get on base as consistently as Kelly or Yunel will. Besides I think it could be very benefiical to have the CF winner be in the 8th hole. If they can get on base rather frequently, they are all capable of stealing bases. That takes pressure off of the pitchers to lay down sacrifices and could even help the pitchers get better pitches to hit because the oppossing pitcher will be worried about the runner on 1st.
I really do believe the Braves will have the most well balanced lineup in the NL.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Y’all, I really do feel for you in the South. We are so used to the cold up here (even me after all those years down south), that it is just something to amaze Southerners with. Having experienced below freezing in Good Ole Athens, Ga., I know it is horrible for y’all. The worst part fort me is the $300 I’ve racked up having the driveway plowed-so far.
DAP and McFann-Y’all’s Wurlitzer Drawings were sent out today-Priority Mail. Should be there either Saturday or Monday, at the latest. Enjoy. For all who were promised prints-I got them made today and they look real good. I’ll hand color them and try to get them out in a week or so. Merry Belated Christmas from the Bionic Artist.
I will have booklets of Braves’ prints at Spring Training (while I’m there from Feb.15-29) for all MIB Blog Denizens who are there. They’re great for getting signed by the players. Have I ever told y’all I really love this Blog?
By DAP
January 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
DOB Fortunately, folks here on the blog, at least so far, have merely discussed the fact that we’ve had a lot of extreme weather in the past year. And I don’t see how that’s got anything to do with politics.
but earlier you said
the climate experts say that’s the full picture of Global Warming — extreme weather in of all kids (hot and cold, wet and dry, etc)
weather is one thing, global warming is a different thing. and you KNOW, DOB, that it IS a political issue, even if it shouldnt be.
10paul global warming a hot issue? good one!
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Now, would the A’s approach the Braves with a Crisp for James deal?
Would they? Probably. Should the Braves do it? Not unless they want to secure the label of absolute stupidity.
Yes. It would be a stupid trade. How bad was Crisp last year? He managed to be worse than AJ with his bat. I think this team could simply insert one of the 4 CF “prospects” (Blanco, Anderson, Schafer, Hernandez) they have and get similar production without having to give up a solid pitcher.
By Efrim
January 3, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Robert
I feel like Beane could of gotten more for Swisher. I guess it all depends on what Gio Gonzalez does. The guy has been traded so much and he has never pitched in the bigs yet. Seems so weird to see a prospect move so much. I am a big fan of Swisher. Takes walks and has tons of power. Chi Sox did well.
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
His 80 home runs were a franchise record by a switch-hitter
—ESPN
That’s crazy. I would have figured the A’s would have had more Switch Hitters with more homeruns than 80. The Braves have back-to-back switch hitters with over 170 HR’s each. Of course, Teixeira hasn’t hit all of his for the Braves…
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
10Paul, I agree that a straightup trade would be stupid. However, if Mark Kotsay or a good prospect is thrown in then it might be worth looking at. Now, in fairness to Crisp he hit over 40 points higher than Andruw Jones so……………. But, I do see your point and agree with it to some extent.
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Efrim, it looks like the two pitchers the White Sox gave up were their two best prospects so maybe Beane got quite a bit. Time will tell.
By mo in the boonies
January 3, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
ncscoots Yeah, Mich. and O.S. won a lot of ball games with that 3-5 yrds and a cloud of dust, but it was darn boring to watch. And Tressel isn’t much different either, he does try to mix it up some now, but I read an article on him today at ESPN.com when he was a coach at Syracuse:
Tressel’s brand of football is no longer quite as conservative as Hayes’. Ohio State gains more than 3 yards a play, and there are no clouds of dust in the palace that is Ohio Stadium. But as a young quarterback coach calling the plays at Syracuse in 1981, he called plays from a page out of Hayes’ book. “We played Illinois when we had [tailback] Joe Morris,” Dick MacPherson, the former Syracuse coach who hired Tressel, said from his winter home in Florida. “Jimmy runs a sprint draw nine times to get into the end zone. The next series, he starts with a sprint draw. I get on the phone, and excuse my language, I said, ‘Jesus Christ, Jimmy, don’t we have another damn play?’ “He said, ‘Yes we do, Coach. As soon as they stop this one, I’ll call it.’
“That’s Jimmy Tressel to me.”
And that is the old style of play for both Mi. and O.S. More than nine times running the same old play right up the middle. I heard that Rich Rodriguez mentioned he might do the spread offense at Mi next year. I sure hope so. He will have a new Quarterback and a couple new receivers that he might be able to do something with.
Choppinmama Saw on the news that the south is having a deep freeze today. Bad news for the veggie and fruit crops, and bad news for we consumers in the north. Tomatoes were already over $3.50 a lb. at our grocery this week. A pound is about one tomato.
Will someone explain to this northerner exactly what is in a shoo-fly pie?
And why are so many football players wearing those bands on their arms. What are they for?
TennPaul Tressel will be wearing his sweater vest for the big game next Monday. They are his trademark.
By nOLIE
January 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves lineup should be the following (given a centerfielder is not acquired): 1. Escobar 2. K. Johnson 3. Chipper 4. Texieira 5. McCann 6. Francoeur 7. Diaz/B. Jones 8. Anderson/Schafer/Blanco. RCIB
any thought that Bobby might flop Johnson/Escobar according to whether a RH or a LH is starting? I think it is assuming a lot that Yunel will hit as well as last season while playing full time. Not sure how high I think his OBP will be. I have always liked speed in the 8 hole for the reasons that you state.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
DAP-No Global Warming isn’t political. However, Had he said “The Democratics-Bleeding Heart Liberals, led by Al Bleeping Gore are proponents of the theory, while The Republicans, in their Usual Glacial manner, refuse to believe Al Bleeping Gore because it would require changing their Neanderthal-like view of the world.”-Now THAT would have been political.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
nOlie-I just read the new Chop Talk. In his column, Bobby Cox mentions Escobar and KJ as leadoff men. In his column and in Frank Wren’s column, much space is devoted to Anderson, his defense and his speed. Schaeffer was mentioned as not being ready, having played no higher than A ball. No other Center fielders were even mentioned-in either column. That should tell you something.
By Shaun
January 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, that A’s switch-hitting homerun record is surprising, especially considering the A’s long franchise history. Makes me think there haven’t been that many great switch-hitters (at least great power-hitting switch-hitters) in baseball history. Let’s look, shall we….
I count only 12 switch-hitters in the top 200 in career SLG, according to BaseballReference.com.
I count only 14 in the top 200 in career homeruns.
Still a little surprising given the A’s rich history but not as surprising as it seems at first glance.
By ncscoots
January 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Now THAT would have been political.
But true, God help us, oh so true, LOL.
By uga-brave
January 3, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
if anderson is supposed to be so good, why did houston trade him? they traded lidge to the phillies for their outfield prospect bourne. seems like identical players.
i know we basically traded nothing for him, but i think he will end up being a poor mans langerhans. wren was right when he used the term “stop gap”
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
RCB: I’d still disapprove of trading James in general. He’s the Braves best young pitcher. And in fairness to Andruw Jones, he did have an 88 OPS+ while Crisp could only mount an 83 OPS+. However, Crisp was still less streaky than AJ. Crisp was consistantly below league average. AJ liked to pour a whole season into a few games here and there.
By ncscoots
January 3, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
TPaul, re the research on Tex, you might get a kick out of this. On some blog somewhere, can’t remember where, a couple of guys took the position that Teixeira is basically Adam Dunn with better defense. Why? Because the OBP and SLG for each are basically the same; BA and RBI are irrelevant (no plus for Tex); and strikeouts are just outs (no minus for Dunn). And, oh by the way, 1B defense means very little in the overall scheme of the game, anyway. Therefore, Dunn is just as, or nearly as, valuable as Tex.
As I remember, neither of those guys could figure out why Dunn will make around $60MM less on his next contract than Teixeira. :-) But, obviously, we need not fear if Tex fails to sign with the Braves, LOL.
By AdirondackDave
January 3, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Lew — I haven’t read chop talk but from what you said it looks like it’s Anderson’s job in CF to lose. Also, $300 so far for snowplowing sounds painful. Can you get a winter snow contract rather than per plow fee? We pay $450 for the season over here and I think on average we get about the same as you (120” or so per season)?
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Payne: I’m glad you can count. It’s surprising to me because they’ve won 9 WS titles and been in 3 cities and are one of the founding teams of the AL. I just thought a team of that age and success would have had at least 1 switch hitter stick around long enough to break the 100 mark, there’s 50 of ‘em so far. Wasn’t necessarily looking for the top offensive switch hitters of all time. C’est la vie.
By The Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy
January 3, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Wow, saying the man will be like Langerhans would have been bad enough, but calling him a “poor man’s Langerhans” is just downright cold-hearted. ;-)
By Lew
January 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Adirondack Dave-Last year we spent $180 for the whole year. It just depends on what any winter might bring. I have a ten month contract for heating oil that caps it at $2.95 a gallon. Last year it never hit above $2.65 so I got a credit. Already this year, it’s hitting $3.15 a gallon and will go up, so I got a deal. That, apparently, is life in the North Country. I’m just glad I can afford to pay it and still eat!!!
UGABrave-I won’t go so far as to say that Anderson will be a great or even a good hitter. However, he has speed that Langerhans can only dream of. This, at the very least, should work into a few infield hits and a few DP’s not grounded into. By all reports, he is as good as you could want defensively-maybe not Andruw, but not too far behind. Defense sounds like it will be no problem. The kid hit well over .300 in a short time up with the Stros, so who knows? Maybe he will hit pretty well if he listens to TP. Like you said-stopgap. Maybe we will get more than that.
As for the AStros-I’m not real sure they have a clue what they are doing anyway. I was listening to the Astros MLB.Com writer on XM Home Plate today and she was seemingly mystified about the direction Ed Wade is taking, as well-said they just depleted minor league pitching to the point where they are ranked dead last in farm system and have no more available pitching coming from their system for three more years. Not sure they didn’t trade away a jewel. Certainly no one is thinking they got much in the Bourne trade.
By Shaun
January 3, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, dude, not trying to start an argument. Just trying to add something that is mildly interesting to the discussion.
As far as AJ vs. Crisp, I agree that Crisp is the better bet but because of age, body type and salary.
ncscoots, interesting about Dunn and Teixeira. Not sure I agree with those guys because I think Teixeira may be the best defensive firstbaseman in the game and Dunn is a bad leftfielder, from all I’ve heard. I do think the difference between those two players is closer than many think but I do think Teixeira has a distinct advantage.
By Ratso Rizzo
January 3, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Just like the internet, he invented global warming.
By bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars
January 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
By the way, the dunn = Teixeira reference is from MLB trade rumors. I linked it on my “my yahoo” account. my favorite place for info other than here.
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Wanna hear something hilarious? Foxsports radio just said that Clemens claims in his 60 Minutes interviews that Brian McNamee did inject him but not with HGH or steroids but with painkillers and B-12. B-12? C’mon, Rog. Were you not paying attention when Rafael Palmerio tried that angle and got laughed out of the league? Are there really people who believe this clown? Good Lord!
By uga-brave
January 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
rizzo,
i believe you are mistaken, that honor goes to david wright and derek jeter.
By ncscoots
January 3, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Thank you, BBFCFM, couldn’t remember where I had seen that discussion.
By Efrim
January 3, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Robert
They did get their best two pitching prospects, I agree. But I am just suprised more at a team like the Indians. They probably balked at giving up some of their pitching depth for Swisher, but they definetly had the guns to trade for Swisher.
Now Swisher is playing the outfield for one of their divisional rivals.
The Indians really needed a corner outfield bat. They can’t be serious with Franklin Guterriez. I dunno, just would of made a lot of sense if they had offered up Adam Miller.
I’m sure Beane asked and Shapiro said no, but for Swisher, I would of given up Miller…..
Indians already have a ton of pitching.
By bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars
January 3, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
Actually UGA brave, David Wright invented the internet and Derek Jeter. Yeah, thats right. he has a womb. he has everything.
By uga-brave
January 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
robert,
roger’s head had to get anatomically bigger to contain that ego he has. the guy will deny till he dies. just another spoiled pampered athlete that loves the spotlight.
he retired how many times? the guy loves benig begged.
By McFann
January 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Just had a chance to go over the ol’ blog. THanks, Lew. It’s nice of you to let us know. Not so sure I deserve it now…after what I said yesterday.
By bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars
January 3, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
And just to interject, I realize it was from a doctor and all - but whats so noble about someone shooting painkillers into your butt? Thats doing drugs too. And even if they dont “enhance” your playing, they can still land you in jail.
Besides, even if it were from a licensed doctor, he was giving out steroids, which um…well- doesnt seem like he has any credibility to me. Might as well bust him for doing hard drugs too while were at it.
By bigblackfurrycreaturefrommars
January 3, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
oh nevermind. Lidocaine isnt a pain killer. thats just a numbing agent. We inject people with that at our medical office here in Atlanta before you get an epidural, for medial branch nerve blocks, or as a trigger point injection , to name a few ways it might be used.
Someone said that is a painkiller - and while it might numb your pain - it doesnt fall into that class. It is non-narcotic
By Lew
January 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
McFann-Youth excuses one to a certain extent-just so you learn after removing feet from mouth that shoe leather neither tastes good, nor is it very nutritious. I’m going to email you an attachment of a new McCann drawing I finished the other day. NOT the one I sent you, which has him hitting the HR against Clemens. You’ll like them both.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Lidocaine, like Novocaine is a local anesthetic.
By McFann
January 3, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Lew. Yeah, my shows left a terrible taste in my mouth. >P Can’t wait to receive your e-mail. I don’t think youth is much of an excuse for saying stupid things. If I needed an excuse, I guess it could be that I forgot you were a grad form UGA and I should’ve taken into consideration other people’s feeling before spewing such garbage. So blame my words more on stupidity and not-thinking than on my age.
My apologies again.
By Robert (Chipper) Is The Best)
January 3, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
The Rocket really needs to stop. Lidocaine?! C’mon! Why would anybody have a numbing medicine shot into their a*? I’m racking my brain trying to find a reason and I can only come up with one other than it was really roids….Um, wait, hold on……….Please excuse me. I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
By TexasBrave
January 3, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
DOB I hope your Jayhawks fare better tonight than my Sooners.
Man that was embarrassing!
By McFann
January 3, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew, I got your e-mail. GREAT DRAWINGS!! I drew a picture for my book that was copied from Sid’s Slide. I would have sent you that one, but I drew it backwards.
By Choppinmama
January 3, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Robert (CIB): The Rocket had the injections because he heard someone say “Roger, you’re a pain in the a*” and thought they said, “Roger, you HAVE a pain in the a*.”
Hence, the injections.
C,mon…that makes as much sense as his excuses, doesn’t it?
By SNIPER-69
January 3, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Have the Mets traded for Santana Yet? When that happens the Mets will have the best rotation in the NL. Santana, Pedro, Maine, Perez, and El Duque.
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Sniper, let me know when that happens.
No questions at all about Pedro and El Duque, huh? Good for you. Nothing like having faith in your squad.
By David O'Brien
January 3, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
DAP, seems like it is a political issue with you, for some reason. Oh, well. Hey, sorry you feel that way. I disagree.
By SNIPER-69
January 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Pedro didn’t pitch much last year so I would think he’s rested and healed for 2008. As for El Duque, I penciled him in as the 5th starter because of durability issues. That 5th spot only went 5-17 last year with an ERA of almost 7.00. Putting El Duque there would be a big improvement. But first things first. The Mets need to trade for Santana. Call me an optimist, but I think the Mets will end up with him. They have the money he wants and the Twins will avoid facing him if he’s traded to the NL.
By Dirty WB
January 3, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Hey, baby, if youre feelin down. I know whats good for you all day. Are you worried what your friends see. Will it ruin your reputation lovin me.
cause Im a dirty white boy. Yeah a dirty white boy. A dirty white boy.
Dont drive no big black car. Dont like no hollywood movie star. You want me to be true to you. You dont give a damn what I do to you.
Im just a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, dirty white boy. Dirty white boy.
Well, Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy. A dirty white boy.
Ive been in trouble since I dont know when. Im in trouble now and I now somehow Ill find trouble again. Im a loner, but Im never alone. Every night I get one step closer to the danger zone.
cause Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy.
Cmon, cmon boy. Dirty white boy, white boy. Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy.
Hey, Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, yeah, Im a dirty white boy. Dirty white boy, dirty white boy, yeah.
By TennesseePaul
January 3, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Scoots: I ran Dunn’s numbers. He turns out to be on the same level, if not higher (or lower depending on point of view) as AJ. Streaky. I’d take Teixeira over Dunn in a heart beat. Better Defense. Switch Hitter. Consistant. Too bad he’s gone after this season.
By McFann
January 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
I, uh…meant to say “shoes” not “shows”.
That’s embarrassing.
By DAP
January 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Lew thanx for the update on the wulitzer. ill be waiting with bated breath.
by the way, i think that IM a poor man’s langerhans.
By DAP
January 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
DOB OK.
By JeffersonBravesFan
January 3, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Hey McFann….you remind me alot of someone who used to post here. He too had little knowledge of baseball, but loved to be the center of attention. He had a strange infactuaition with birds too. Hmmmm. Your last name isn’t Smith is it???
By JeffersonBravesFan
January 3, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Lew, I’ve read this blog since it started. You are the man, but I’ll send you some proof on McFann tomorrow that’ll have you wishing you didn’t send HIM an autographed McCann copy. I just don’t like seeing someone get played like that. Anyway, I’m right down the road from Athens. You probably know where Jefferson is, right? Peace out my brother.
By Lew
January 3, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
Jefferson Braves Fan-Yeah-Got a speeding ticket there-my only one ever.
All I request when I give a Wurlitzer is a real name and address. I have no way of knowing if that is the case with any winner. I send the package to the name and address I’ve been given. If McFann is not a female, then someone with a female name at that address will be receiving a package with a cool drawing in it. I hope whoever it is enjoys it, as I hope, have all the other winners. We all have our masks, avatars and personas. Do you really think I’m a teenage surfer, Dude?
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
Calling out to the blogger with the screen name ROAN ST, wherever you are.
Just curious if there’s anything, anything at all, that you’d like to change from this post you had on Nov. 25, after Kansas lost to Mizzou:
“DOB, sorry but Kansas got to 11-0 by playing zero competition, mistake free football aside. I said last week that Kansas would get exposed as soon as they played a decent football team and that’s exactly what happened. Unless the BCS gives them a gift game like Hawaii then they will have loss number two after their bowl game. Now I think missouri is a pretty good team but in no way are they the best team in the country. Maybe mizzou can beat oklahoma but West Virginia will take em to the woodshed if they play for the national title. The three best teams right now are West Virginia, USC, and maybe Georgia. And if there was a playoff system Florida would be a dangerous team late in the season. But it looks like there will be at least one overrated team ( OSU or mizzou) in the BS national championship game.”
By Metropolitan Man
January 4, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
NYC weather, boy is it feeling good in the METro area. Hey Lew, make sure you wear your METS parka, you know you own one. Stay warm people or the Northerners will walk the night!!!!
By Nolie
January 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
C’mon, Rog. Were you not paying attention when Rafael Palmerio tried that angle and got laughed out of the league? Are there really people who believe this clown? Good LordRCIB
and this after previously swearing that he was never injected with anything. McNamee is threatening to sue I’d like to see that happen
By itsouttahere
January 4, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
Lew, I too really enjoy this blog.
Choppinmama, it would be most difficult to be a GM, and part with players…this would be like trading your kids…LOL
Wish I had the writing ability of DOB. I would love to see him in action… can he put out his words quickly, or does it take him much time to be so well read.
Houses in S.China do NOT have heat. It was 61 degrees inside this morning… a little cool for indoors from what I am used to in SC.
Go Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and all the lucky guys fighting for spot #5. Will be really interesting to see who makes the team. I for one don’t think we should see James in the bullpen. Would love to see Hampton go 17-6, and pitch at a large discount in 2009! That friends, would be honorable!!
By Coach(Lets Go Braves In 2008)
January 4, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
Dave O’Brien , congratulations to your Jayhawks ! They found a way to win. 12-1 is a huge achievement for Kansas , long considered just a basketball power. This season establishes them as a legitimate two sport school.
By Braveheart
January 4, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
Good day for Kansas. The Jayhawks win in Miami and the son of a Kansas girl wins in Iowa. Dare to dream the American dream. If you work hard, your dreams can come true no matter who you are.
Rocket is a joke. Alot of fans are ready to forgive and move on. I don’t know who Clemens thinks he is fooling right now. If he just fessed up and blamed ego, injuries, money, competitive desire, pressure from fans, media, management to get back on the field and at the top of his game, and a prevalent roid culture in the game that was being applauded and encouraged by fellow players, coaches, managers, GMs, scouts, owners, and, most importantly, the commissioner himself, he might find people very receptive and thankful that one of the surefire Hall of Famers had finally swallowed his pride, stopped the sham, and been honest about what we all already know to be true. We’re not dumb. But we want closure.
Fans don’t want the game tarnished for the next 50 years with all of these stupid debates about which cheaters or suspected cheaters should be allowed in to the Hall of Fame. The damn Bert Blyleven debates are more than annoying enough. If they were just honest, eventually they may just find that many fans say just put ‘em in, we’re weary of this bloody thing already.
But for whatever reason, they won’t do it. It’s Nixonian in nature. It’s not the crime we are all upset about anymore, it’s the darn continued bungled attempts to cover it up that is ticking so many of us off.
By doc
January 4, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this
well david you havent commented or chimed much on the latest revelation by the clemens side. maybe you are waiting to hear the whole story on 60 minutes. will you swear by it?
b-12 and lidocaine, huh? how many times have you heard that combo as a pain reliever and career rejuvenator? was that ever discussed in any clubhouse you have been around?
surely they all must have done it or was the rocket so secretive because he had found the fountain of youth and didnt want to share it? how could he have held out on his best buddy and other teammates like pettit who had to use the bad illegal stuff? and he was a workout partner following him around like my best friend’s dog used to do. some guy huh?
i guess i ought to waste my time and watch as i have a lot of questions. i think i’ll wait and read the transcript.
they used to say it was b-12 injections back in the 60’s for energy when it was really speed. lidocaine is the shortest acting injectable pain reliever there is with a pain relief span of 30 minutes to less than an hour and they expect us to believe that is what clemens was paying for? b-12 is excellent for the peripheral nerves of the body and many of us need it and dont realize it because it is so hard to absorb especially because we use the latest over the counter anti-acid drugs. it is also used as a benefit to the whole body as a general anti-inflammatory specificly for heart disease but joint issues, uh …. no.
roger clemens is beginning to sound as believable as roger rabbit.
By doc
January 4, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this
very insightful comments braveheart. i wasnt commenting on top of yours but probably composing as you posted so i guess we awakened to the same topic of reflection as it stared me down for umpteenth time on the ajc web site. just couldnt ignore it any longer either i guess.
By flange1
January 4, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Good Morning All,
Congratulations DOB! What a great win for the Jayhawks!
DOC, I agree with you on the Rocket. The concept of injecting lidocaine in the buttocks for joint pain is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I know some folks swear by B-12, but my understanding in lidocaine is a LOCAL pain killer.
Braveheart, I agree with you too. I don’t want to forgive and forget on the Rocket or any one else who cheats. As you say, it will only increase the arguments down the road on “ifs and buts”…….
By Lew
January 4, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
DOC-You’re right about B12. It (along with bombardment with other B vitamins) reversed my profound peripheral neuropathy, resulting from Diabetes. It is beneficial for nerve function. In baseball context, though, one has to wonder. Maybe they should just eat their green veggies and not worry about getting it in the numba$$ with their lidocaine.
By DAP
January 4, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
two really good teams duked it out last night and kansas came out on top. they looked great doing it to. in fact, of all the bowl games i watched, kansas and mizzou were two of the best looking teams.
everything is working out so that georgia should at least be in the nation’s top 5 next season. two teams in from of them have lost, and one of the other two will lose.
it seems like you have a better chance of playing for it all when you start at the top.
im happy about the SEC’s overall record in bowl games this year, to. 6-2, and hopefully 7-2 soon. i was a little surprised florida lost to michigan, but there is cetinly no shame in it. and mizzou and arkansas was a pretty lopsided matchup.
i bet some mizzou fans probably feel kinda like some georgia fans, like they got disrespected with a pretty lame match-up.
By McFann
January 4, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Dude…
I don’t like to be the center of attention. But one of my worst faults is to keep talking and/or typing until somebody responds. It drives me nuts, let alone the person I’m talking and/or typing to.
Strange infatuation with birds? I suppose so. I mean, anybody that sees me with our pet bird, Petey, is gonna think I’m weird. And I’d have to agree. But putting out mealworms for our backyard birds isn’t quite the same since Jenny Girl disappeared.
I’m not from Athens, and my name ain’t Smith. I told Lew the truth. But there’s no way under the heavens I’m tellin’ you who I am!!
By We Have Mets the Enemy
January 4, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Geez, Dave, dredging up a post from Nov. 25? Sad to say, that’s awfully Coach-like of you.
ROAN ST obviously was very successful in his attempt to get under your skin.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
McFann-I sent the drawing to the name and address that you gave me. I am assuming that you really wanted the picture and that name and address will get it to you-whoever you are, real or assumed. That’s what matters to me. We are all who we are and sometimes we try not to be. Doesn’t much matter to me one way or another. I did not award you the prize because you were (supposedly or in fact) a teenage young lady. It was for your response to the contest and for no other reason. That you receive the drawing is all that matters to me.
By doc
January 4, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
lew, if you havent already checked into it check out ala for the diabetes and continue on the folate, b-6 and b-12 bro. glad you got some “simple” help as most docs dont go the vitamin route, no pharm rep to encourage it. ala helps in glucose metabolism and helps the nerves to regenerate.
looks like roan was at least part right and very right just blew it on the lays and missou.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
DAP-I’m not so sure the Dawgs got shafted having to play Hawaii (though I think they would have acquitted themselves quite well in the BCS Championship Game). The team WAS undefeated and until someone took them to the cleaners like UGA did in the sUGAr Bowl, all they would have done is to muddy the waters even more.
Now we know where KU stands. A great win for the school and just proves they DID have a good team, worthy of their high ranking and were quite capable of rising to the occasion against a worthy rival. They are to be congratulated. Most definitely a great season for them.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Doc-Despite his Johns Hopkins education, my primary care physician needs additional classes. My podiatrist, however, listens and when he saw me heal from a bone protruding ulcer, he quickly realized that my supplementation did, indeed, work miracles. I use B6,B12, Biotin, SuperB complex, inositol (works on the “heavy” feeling in feet and legs), A, C, D, E, chromium, folic acid, saw palmetto (prostate health), selenium, magnesium, fish oil concentrate (chol. and triglycerides), Co Q10 and calcium -daily!!!! L’Arginine is a great substitute for little blue pills with no side effects. I do all of this faithfully, just like I follow my medical protocol and am now completely under control. Supplementation is cheap (except CoQ10), easy and effective. Too bad most doctors don’t understand it and nutrition!!!
By Braveheart
January 4, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
I use B6,B12, Biotin, SuperB complex, inositol (works on the “heavy” feeling in feet and legs), A, C, D, E, chromium, folic acid, saw palmetto (prostate health), selenium, magnesium, fish oil concentrate (chol. and triglycerides), Co Q10 and calcium -daily!!!! L’Arginine is a great substitute for little blue pills with no side effects.
Holy Balco, Lew!
By McFann
January 4, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Don’t worry, Lew, I’ll be the one who gets the drawing. If I didn’t want it, I would not have answered your generous offer. I’ll let you know as soon as I can after it gets here.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-The only difference is that I get all of these vitamin supplements over the counter and they are nothing more than concentrated doses of nutrients you get by eating more food than anyone needs to eat. It is also a matter of me being alive ad if I hadn’t used the supplements, I would not be. Three years ago I could barely walk and now I walk 1 1/2 miles daily with no limp. My blood sUGAr is totally under control and all other appropriate levels are maintained. I suppose this could be performance enhancing, but I prefer to look at it as life enhancing-ie. life is there when otherwise it might not have been.
McFann-I never had any doubts-it was others who wonder at your identity. If you’re faking me out, you went to much effort and great lengths to effectuate the deception-for no good reason or gain that I can see.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
The WTF just suspended Martina Hingis for two years for testing positive for Cocaine. Those tennis folk don’t fool around, do they? Something like that might put an end to steroid use.
By DAP
January 4, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Lew your right. i suppose there was no way of knowing for SURE that hawaii would get killed before the game, but it became quickly obvious to me that georgia deserved a more worthy opponent.
i think we all know that there doesnt seem to be alot of logic to how they pick the BCS teams and the matchups. they dont seem to use the same rules everytime. it would make sense to me to match up #’s 1-2, #’s 3-4, #’s 5-6, #’s 7-8 and #’s 9-10. but they matched up #’s 1-2, 3-8, 4-9, 5-10, (there is a pattern) but then they matchup #6 with an UNRANKED TEAM!!! what!?! and #7 with #13!
it just deosnt make sense to me. maybe it does to some out there, i dont know. i dont really get it. i feel little cheated as a hawaii fan, but id feel even more cheated as a mizzou fan.
By doc
January 4, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
lew, co q-10 is one of the very best supplements to take with some finding that parkinsons responds at doses above 1600mg per day. most under use it. i go for 300 a day. there are some new more available forms just out so stay up on it. anyone taking those dirty anti-cholesterol drugs should be on them.
please check on ala. i think one trade name is alamax cr. really good stuff for any diabetic or someone with peripheral neuropathy.
arginine is good if you dont have fever blisters as they may come out. nightgain is another product to take and it is available all the time. heh heh.
braveheart check into the concept of adaptogens for the info that would help all without putting folks in jail or hurt their bodies. doesnt replace or force anything to do what it isnt capable of simply maximizes performance. it helps the body to bring it back into homeostasis under any and all stresses including the times that the bad dob comes alive a snarfs up another derelict like overlord. heh heh, only kidding and it is a badge of honor to have been taken out by the mighty sword, er pen, er keyboard of out fearless leader. overlord you took it like a man.
now not speaking of men, mcfann, there are adaptogens helpful to those that cant imbibe alcohol legally, too. so i dont want to overlook you in the discussion. but, like big lew might say to you fruits and veggies are the way to go and the best start to an inflammation free life.
lew you have an excellent regimen there, keep it up. i was a vascular surgeon so i saw many of those types of ulcers myself, some didnt have the desire to do what was necessary to help themselves so it wasnt pretty at times. now i am an acupuncturist with a bent toward natural healing techniques …. good food and supplements with balancing energies. keep the energy up dude and be painfree and keep thoose feet warm and dry especially now. just check on alamax cr.
By Braveheart
January 4, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Lew, I know. It was just funny seeing that huge list. I was gonna call you a regular walking pharmacy but I wanted to whip out the Holy Balco line. But I do marvel at your discipline and will to live. Something like what you go through daily might have defeated me and made me bitter. Yet, you have remained one feisty eternal optimist.
Well, the Britney saga continues. So sad. I never liked her music but this has turned so sad, so fast. The saddest part seems to be that she does not have one family member, one trusted friend who she loves enough to allow them to help her.
By old timer
January 4, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Interesting how the big three have flip-flopped. Now it would be Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux instead of the way the rotation was set all those years. Which you really wouldn’t expect given that the “crafty” guys, Glav and Mad Dog, figured to keep throwing 87 mph fastballs and quality change-ups, and Smotlz would lose mucho velocity by now. Wish we still had Maddux, but to have kept him back when the Cubs got him on a 3-year deal for $7 mil a year or so, we would have had to have paid a lot more thru arbitration and that whole freaky process of having to wait until May to make an offer.
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
What do you say we get the new blog year started? Personal matters taken care of this morning, now time to try cranking out a new blog. Should be up within an hour.
And thanks for staying with us during the slow, one-blog-a-week stretch (hey, it was only for two weeks).
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Lew, just scrolled up to one of your posts this morning, and saw a phrase that’s about as nasty as they come: “Bone protruding ulcer.”
Yikes. That hurts just typing it.
By McFann
January 4, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Yeah!! Let’s get the new blog goin’!!
By Lew
January 4, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-I’m still bitter, bent and warped, but I’m alive to be bitter, bent and warped-might actually have something to do with why I do the Wurlitzers for no reward. We all give back however we can-hopefully.
Doc-That’s the thing-I no longer have serious neuropathy. That regimen (and the fact I drink 96 ounces of water daily) have reduced it by 90% at least. I also no longer drink soda or carbonated drinks which contain Phenyketoneurics, which aggravate the condition. Soda is NOT good for you-even diet soda!!!!!
My toe is still attached and my Podiatrist claims it’s a first in his 40+ years of doctoring-everyone else whose ulcers were that bad no longer have the toe. It took 2 1/2 years to totally heal. You’re right about Lipitor and statins-they do reduce levels of some nutrients. It’s amazing-eating a high protein, high fiber diet with no empty carbs like white bread, potatoes or pasta (except occasionally whole grain pasta), enables me to take half a dose of what my doctor thinks I should of Lipitor, as well as eat a dozen eggs a week, use real butter and eat red meat almost every night. I still lost 31 pounds last year with cholestoral of 149. It ain’t eating fat, it’s all the fast food crap with sesame seed buns and fries. Cut them out and people would be shocked what you can eat-and still lose weight and remain healthy. Fat gets a bad rap, but I never saw anyone lose weight that ate fat free Snackwell cookies. They have no fat, but everything else they contain is harmful.
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Old Timer, Maddux signed a three-year, $24 mill contract ($6 mill first year, then $9 mill each of next two) with the Cubs after “settling” for $14.75 mill with Braves in 2003 when he took them up on their arbitration offer (he asked fro $16 mill, Braves offered $13.5, and they split the difference and settled before it went to arbitration)….
Someone asked why I hadn’t commented on Clemens’ latest assertions: What’s the point? They’re a crock.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
January 4, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, what do you mean? What has that skank Britney done now?
By Lew
January 4, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB-Scared the hell out of me like little else in my life has. I was on full spectrum antibiotics for a year and a half and it took another full year after that to heal completely. I have an incredible doctor that actually listens to patients and encourages them to do research on their own. I did and it worked.
It just proves you can’t ever quit or give up. I have a great appreciation of what Mike Hampton has gone through. He could have just taken the $$$ and run. It takes guts to keep working and hanging in there-especially when most people think you’re insane for thinking you can succeed and predict against the possibility.
By McFann
January 4, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Lew, gotta agree with you on soda. And diet soda is NASTY!! That fake sUGAr really makes it taste bad.
Hope my father doesn’t ever see the way I spelled sugar. ; )
Hope all is well with you, Lew. Hang in there, buddy.
By McFann
January 4, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
MLB.com is really NY and Boston bias. But in today’s article on catchers, they mentioned McCann five times!! I still don’t like that website, though. It’s all “New York this! Boston that! Blah blah blah.” SHEESH!! If it weren’t for Russell Martin and McCann, that article woulda been more of the same.
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
McFann, new blog only if you promise to stop sounding like a lost son of the Brady Bunch.
By doc
January 4, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
sorry david it was me with the querry, slow week in baseball and that is what kept staring at me on the sports section before i would go to the blog. one can only read about the jayhawks so many times. it is laughable for inquiring minds, his take. guess he is betting on some naive fools to believe him and his explanation, i mean hadnt he heard how well the cream one would work? oh yeah it gets you a grand jury investigation whereas b-12 wont. cant wait to see him in front of congress.
lew, much cred dude. i know how steep the curve was. i was able to stick with some folks that were not septic and nurse it through but there were many more that didnt work for. the nerve thing can be overcome with time and effort. unfortunately,many docs dont even check for the problem. too busy and no reimbursement for their efforts. guess what? preventative diabetic programs lose money for hospitals which are essentially government funded, amputations make a lot of money. guess which programs get cut when medicare reimbursements are reduced?
By Lew
January 4, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Doc-You’re right. The best way to deal with the medical establishment is to not have to deal with them. If we would all get smart and research what it REALLY takes to remain healthy, or to return to health when malady strikes, we would save ourselves much time, money, grief and aggravation.
Everyone should do several very easy things to help it all along. No white bread or white potatoes (sweet potatoes are MUCH better). No soda. Very little fast food. Lots of good protein and lots of fiber from veggies of all colors. A multi vitamin (at the least) every day. Diabetics (or those at high risk for it) should supplement more liberally. Minimum Daily Requirements are a total joke for diabetics.Visually check your feet for cuts or abrasions daily and use a moisturizer on them.
That is usually all it takes to remain healthy. These are all things we can easily do. The results will shock most people.
By Braveheart
January 4, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
McFann, new blog only if you promise to stop sounding like a lost son of the Brady Bunch.
McFann is Cousin Oliver!
By DAP
January 4, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
i meant as a georgia fan. :-)
By DAP
January 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Lew i never realized how lucky we all are that youre even here, brother. your experienced reminds me that im blest with my health.
By flange1
January 4, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, the Britiney thing is terribly sad. Now with her 16 year old sister living with a 20 year old guy and pregnant, the entire family is a disaster waiting to happen.
Just think, in another 15 years there will be another 3 Spears kids (at least) that will be messed up too.
So sad….
Lew,
Your medical approach is quite amazing. I have had folks tell me about approaches such as this but they usually were also suggesting that I stay away from electrical power and live off the land! Do you have any websites that you could recommend where I could learn some more about these nutrients/vitamins/herbal remedies?
On Baseball,
Still thinking about CF. I have read lots of what folks here are saying and what other rumor mills are saying and my take is that Anderson is the “stop gap” until we kind find a better stop gap.
My question to the group, is do you go with 4 outfielders (Frenchy, Anderson, Diaz, and B.Jones) with Anderson being the only true CF in the group? I know Infante can play CF.
It seems to me that Blanco would not really be a good fit because he is actually a lesser version on Anderson?
Are the Braves looking for a RH Blanco? Is all the Ryan Freel talk maybe something to consider?
Or maybe you keep the 4 OF, have Lillibridge and Infante as IF and OF backups, keep Thorman and Aybar for offense and a back up catcher?
Thoughts?
By McFann
January 4, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Um…excuse me, but I don’t click on links…did you say “lost son of the Brady Bunch”? Oh my. May I ask what you are typing about?
By Mensa Member
January 4, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
By Braveheart
January 2, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
I like to compare it to the way some measure IQ. For example, here is one explanation of scores:
85-114 - Average
115-124 - Above average (university students)
125-134 - Gifted (e.g., graduate students)
135-144 - Highly gifted (e.g., intellectuals)
145-154 - Genius (e.g., professors)
155-164 - Genius (e.g., Nobel Prize winners)
165-179 - High genius
180-200 - Highest genius
200 - “Unmeasurable genius”
Here is the actual breakdown of IQ classifications (by the gentleman who wrote the Stanford-Binet standard IQ test):
IQ Range Classification 140+ Genius or near genius 120-140 Very superior intelligence 110-120 Superior intelligence 90-110 Normal or avg intelligence 80-90 Dullness 70-80 Borderline deficiency <70 Definite feeble-mindedness
By McFann
January 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
BTW, I like the Brady Bunch. They’re groovy and everything…I just want to know why you say I’m one of ‘em.
By DAP
January 4, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
flange1 i definetly think we will end up with just 4 outfielders. what do you think now about mike cameron?
would he sign a one year contract at a discount since he will miss the beginning of the year? i wonder what kind of offers he has receive this season. i havent heard ANYTHING at all about him since his suspension was announced.
By Lew
January 4, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Flange-I am not going to live off the land. I need electricity for my stereo and for the HD TV with the full cable package, including the Extra Innings MLB package. XM Radio is becoming necessary, as well!!!
I started with a book called “What To Eat If You Have Diabetes”, by Maureen Keane and Daniella Chace, two very smart women with MS degrees in Nutritional Science. There is a great chapter on supplementation and the book is written so even a person with Jr. High education can understand it.
I realized that most of the diabetic problems I experienced-retinal bleeding and foot problems- dealt with two major side effects-poor circulation and nerve damage. I then researched that.
The Mayo Clinic has great resources dealing with B vitamins and studies dealing with nerve function. Just Google Vitamin supplementation and you will find what you need. Only bother with the more reliable ones like Mayo Clinic, JOhns Hopkins and the like. Or email me lewhartman@comcast.net and I’ll tell you whatever you want to know. My doctor thinks I should write a book, but I’m lazy and the illustrations would be boring.
By doc
January 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
well lew i know where to send folks for their nutrition consults. heh heh
flange, the first thing is to go around the grocery market and avoid anything in the middle except for detergents and paper products. stay away from processed preserved anythings. also if going meats go for range fed or at least those that dont force feed and feed them hormones as well as fill them up with antibiotics. range fed meant grass not grain incidentally, if it were still that way we wouldnt have to do the omegas and essential fat balancing acts with supplements.
a couple of places are dr. mercola. a bit of a mercenary, andy weil’s website, less of a mercenray just expensive or norman shealy’s site especially if you have an illness that isnt being addressed by conventional means. he is excellent in prescribing just the right things for the right reasons. cool guy, legit, and one of the first to say there must be a different way that that of the pharmacomafia. nothing fake about him of his site. after that just start plugging in and find some stuff on your own then begin to corroborate it in other areas. one other guy is dr. mehmet oz who is on oprah a lot, he has some excellent books out.
as a doc that doesnt try to speak the language i dont think any of these sites or ideas will go over anyone’s head. lew might have some others to suggest.
By nOLIE
January 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
The Mayo Clinic has great resources dealing with B vitamins and studies dealing with nerve function. Just Google Vitamin supplementation and you will find what you need. Only bother with the more reliable ones like Mayo Clinic, JOhns Hopkins and the like. Or email me lewhartman@comcast.net and I’ll tell you whatever you want to know. My doctor thinks I should write a book, but I’m lazy and the illustrations would be boringLew
Interesting posts Lew & Doc. I’m gonna start investigating the supplements that you espouse. i have bad neuropathy in my feet and ankles and a lot of swelling.you could snip off my toes and I prolly wouldn’t feel it . Good to know that it can reverse some. I really really hate drinking water though. Can’t seem to wean myself from the diet soda. Gonna give it another try. thanks.
By flange1
January 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
DAP,
I agree that 4 is probably the correct number for outfielders. It also seems that the Braves PLAYERS and their NEEDS don’t jibe.
I don’t want to get into the Matt Diaz argument again, but I feel Matt is a great part time player and perfect pinch hitter. I also think that B. Jones is ready to play LF. I think he will be a better player and has a higher ceiling than Diaz.
In that light, signing Cameron to play CF, let Jones play LF, Frenchy in right, let Anderson be OF 4 and let Diaz back up first and be #1 PH off the bench.
In any light with no options remaining on Thorman, Aybar, B. Pena and Blanco, some or all of these guys could be dealt.
I have felt all winter that the Braves have a glut of decent prospects that are ML ready that they have no place for. I think some sort of deal needs to be made to upgrade the ML roster or at least flesh out the Minor League roster.
I am a bit concerned about 2 rookies in the OF…..
By ncscoots
January 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
my take is that Anderson is the “stop gap” until we kind find a better stop gap.
Let’s hope that search continues. Yes, Anderson had a .400 OBP with Houston, but only 67 AB. He’s not had a minor league year with an OBP over .350, and most years were well under that number. He also hasn’t shown any more power than Blanco, a notoriously weak hitter until this year’s winter league.
CF is still a black hole, boys and girls.
By nOLIE
January 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
CF is still a black hole, boys and girlsncscoots
if Anderson could get on base 34% of the time and have a successful steal rate of 75%(say 30 of 40) in the 8 hole I think thats ok with this lineup as long as he also plays the kinda D that he has a rep for. I do not want Cameron, he is very streaky from year to year and week to week. Never have liked the guy as a player.
By doc
January 4, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
go for it nolie. nothing to lose and everything to gain.
By uga-brave
January 4, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
on one side of the blog there is a human anatomy discussion, on another side there is romper room, brady bunch deposition ongoing.
please for the love of humanity would some g.m. make a blocbuster trade.
By Efrim
January 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
NCScoots
CF is still a black hole, boys and girls.
Agreed. Andruw did hit 24 home runs. You’re not even getting a .720 OPS from Anderson. I think the Braves are just banking on a full year of Tex from the 4 spot and better years from Frenchy and Heap to help with the loss of Renteria and Jones’ production. I really think it is a lot to ask Escobar to equal Renteria’s production too.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 4, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Josh Anderson had an eighty percent success rate at stealing bases in the minors. His 237 stolen bases spells speed demon on the base paths. He can fly , plays great defense and can hit a little bit. Hers is some info on him :
A 2003 fourth-round draft pick, the left-handed hitting outfielder was the MVP of the 2006 Texas League All-Star game, and in that same year he led the league for the second consecutive season in stolen bases and he also ranked first with 173 hits. In 2004 Anderson led all of minor league baseball with 78 stolen bases, and in 2005 he was rated as the best defensive outfielder and the fastest base runner by Baseball America.
By ncscoots
January 4, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
nolie, 75% SB success rate is a net loss. Shaun can probably point to you to the studies.
Even were that not the case, Bobby Cox attempting 40 steals in front of the pitcher would be another sign that the apocalypse is near, LOL.
And, understand that I’m not down on Anderson; I think he has some potential to be a solid big league player. I just don’t think this is the year for him to be Plan A in CF.
By flange1
January 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Coach,
I know you are an Anderson supporter, if ANderson is our CF, do we need 4 or 5 outfielders?
By David O'Brien
January 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG up, finally.
(and I still think Braves will acquire another CF before opening day. Just have a hunch on that.)
By nOLIE
January 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
nolie, 75% SB success rate is a net loss. Shaun can probably point to you to the studiesncscoots
Sheehan says 75 is breakeven but a lot of others peg it at around 68-72. over the years I’ve seen it rated there a lot more than at 75%.and when Rafy first came up and we had VV playing second one of them usually led off and the other batted 8th and they were stealing some bases at the end of the lineup. 40 might be a high number, but if a runner is successful enough Booby’ll run them some. Actually been a few years under ol’ Bobby that the Braves have been near the top in stolen bases.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
January 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Flange , the braves already have six outfielders , that isn’t the issue. They need a veteran in CF.