Braves

By TommyP

December 10, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Could be me but you might want to edit Cabrera’s OBP.

Look forward to hearing which free agents we signed.

DOB: Which spring training locale is your favorite?

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 10, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Consider merely the OBP numbers by those sluggers: Sheffield .397 lifetime, Cabrera .288 lifetime,…

geez, that’s not a good OBP at all! it’s actually .388.

By 22oz

December 10, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Ah, that new blog scent! Can you smell it?

By Saltywoody

December 10, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

So after much consideration, I’m using the entire lyrics to a rather long, and entirely great, Bob Dylan tune.

This tune merits being put on here in its entirety, as do most of the songs/lyrics that find their way onto the bottom of the blog.

Though, if you were Stuart Scott, you’d probably end your blogs with a snappy, cooler punch-line. You know, something to the tune of “I’m out like a fat kid in Dodgeball.”

Then again, I prefer Dylan…

By TNRON

December 10, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

All right a new blog!!!!!! Damn I forgot what I was gonna say.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

BOO YA!!! I’m back baby!

By eware

December 10, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, I need to recommend the new Eric Clapton autobiography. Its a great read - I haven’t been able to put it down. The book really makes Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs look and sound even better - if that’s possible.

Lots of stories about Clapton doing blow with other famous musicians too. Interesting stuff.

By kdbanks

December 10, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Booyah! A new blog!

By DAP

December 10, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

thanx for the new blog, DOB. always appreciated.

i especially appreciated your mention of our bullpen depth. weve lost Villareal, Asciano, and Mahay, however, we still have a great core.

the bullpen last season was good but inexperienced on paper. (that is, outside of the big three, wickman, gonzalez, ans soriano, and two of those guys were unfamiliar to us, and had big question marks)

this past season, guys like moylan, yates, and acosta gained valuable experience that i think will help us this year.

i think bobby did a pretty bad job using the bullpen last year, and some of that was probably because of the back-end of the rotation, but that is still no excuse for some of the choices he made. hopefully some roles will be defined this year and bobby will do a better job handling the pen.

weve got some good arms in there.

By DAP

December 10, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

22oz i smell something… i think robert brought his donkey again.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Those comments hurt like a football being fired out of a machine straight for my cornea.

By semiballcoach

December 10, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

any info on minor leaguers, like cory rasmus, brandon monk, or adam coe?

By kdbanks

December 10, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

A buddy of mine just did some research which is making his day (he’s a Tiger fan):

Will the ‘08 Tigers lineup be better than the ‘27 Yanks? See the comparison:

2008 Detroit Tigers (Proposed)

Granderson .302, 23, 74 Polanco .341, 9, 67 Ordonez .363, 28, 139 Cabrera .320, 34, 119 Sheffield .265, 25, 75 Guillen .296, 21, 102 Rodriguez .294, 11, 63 Renteria .332, 12, 57 J Jones .285, 5, 66

team avg. .311, 19, 85

1927 New York Yankees

Lazzeri .309, 18, 122 Meusel .337, 8, 103 Gerhig .373, 47, 175 Ruth .356, 60, 164 Koenig .285, 3, 62 Dugan .269, 2, 43 Collins .275, 7, 36 Combs .356, 6, 64 Morehart .256, 1, 20

team avg .313, 17, 88

By Thrillhouse44

December 10, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

I hadn’t heard about Stu’s appendectomy. BOO YAH!

Are there any CF possibilities in the six-year free agents?

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Can I get a witness from the congregation?

By randy

December 10, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

dur DOB

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Like gravy on a biscuit, it’s all good.

By nOLIE

December 10, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Great Song. Mr Zimmerman has always been one of my favorites. I still remember the huge brouhaha when he switched from acoustic to electric in ‘65 at the Newport Festival and the album ‘Bringing It All Back Home’. I liked it all, every thing that he did. As an aside the Weathermen(I majored in Concerts & Demonstrations, but they went way overboard IMO) took their name from the line in Subterranean Homesick Blues. “you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” Anyway thanks for the memories with those lyrics.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

He must be the bus driver cuz he was takin’ me to school.

By ssiscribe

December 10, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Let’s see … 10th day of December, and I’m sitting outside on the back patio with a bottle of water, a cigar and my laptop as I work away on a few various projects.

Yeah, life is good.

Thx for the new blog O’B. Your riding chronicles remind me of living up in the hills of Northeast Georgia as a young Scribe. That barbecue up there is some good eatin’, for sure.

Now, baseball (noted transition from the Scribe): The Tigers, on paper, should win 115 games next season. That is one sick lineup. Of course, they don’t play the games on paper. But Leyland has quite a lineup to run out there on a daily basis. They get any pitching whatsoever, and they’re going to be the hands-down favorite to win the whole thing.

Now, Keith Law (transition about a reference from the previous blog): That dude is out there, plain and simple. When the Glavine signing went down, I saw him comment on ESPN that it was his belief the Braves would’ve been better served offering Glavine a $1 million contract with an invite to spring training.

What? For a 303-game winner who was fifth in the league in quality starts last season and won 13 games with an ERA that was a little above 4? Keith Law has about as much credibility as that ant crawling along the patio right now.

Now, AJ (more transition): I wish Andruw well in Los Angeles. I hope he gets a standing ovation when he comes back to Atlanta. I mean, why crack on a guy who played the best defensive center field this generation’s ever seen, and a guy who may not have lived up to his offensive potential year-in and year-out, but still was a huge bat and had a helluva offensive season in 2005, when he flat-out carried this team for two months?

I hope AJ does well. But this franchise is better off without him. I think the time had come for Andruw to move on. His stubbornness at the plate, his “I’m a pull hitter” mentality, got to the point where I think he needed to go elsewhere. The Braves won’t replace his defense, and we all know that. But was his defense worth $15 million a year?

I say no. And yes, I know defense up the middle is critical and I just said nobody in our generation has played D the way AJ plays it. But he’s an old 30 who has lost a step and I think is going to lose a step or two more quicker than some people think. The dude plays hard and played (up until those final three games in Houston) every single day, and that pounding is starting to take its toll.

The dynamics of the team now, with eying what it will take to sign Tex after next season, made it impossible to lock up a ton of money into AJ long-term, given the fact we saw the signs of him starting to slow a bit last season. I hope he does well in L.A., indeed, but for the overall long-term picture of the Braves, I think Atlanta is better off without him than with AJ signed through 2012 at $15-$18 million per year.

That’s all I got. Back to it. Duty calls and all that. Hope this warm December afternoon finds all the denizens enjoying life and all it has to offer.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By JEB

December 10, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Musicman DOB I don’t know if you have had the chance to catch FOX’s “Next Great American Band” (Friday nights), but it is coming down to the final 3 bands. I have just watched it weekly the last few weeks. The bands: Sixwire, Clark Bros., & Denver & the Mile High Orchestra, are all VERY good groups and VERY tight! (I think the kid band will be gone this week - not that good of a band) They are not only playing “covers” but now are displaying some of their own music. Each of these groups will be put on the map! Tough call on who will win (my bet is Clark Bros.) if you have the time, or can TIVO then check these out. On another point (Braves), at the present salary amount for the team, it seems to me that (unless they work some magic) they will have to settle for Anderson/ Blanco or Schafer in centerfield. Does it appear that way to you??

By Jill

December 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

I am looking forward to the Braves signing Buzz Campaz, Albey Lopez, Rick Camp, Rick Mahler and Charlie Lehbranch.

By Jared

December 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman today:

With Rafael Soriano serving as the closer, Peter Moylan will likely serve as the primary setup man. Tyler Yates and Manny Acosta are also capable of handling that role. Will Ohman will begin the season as the club’s left-handed reliever. As for Blaine Boyer, who is out of options, he’ll be given every opportunity to prove he belongs in the Majors.

Battling for the final spot in the bullpen will be Joey Devine and left-hander Royce Ring. A darkhorse candidate in this battle will be right-hander Charlie Morton, who impressed Bobby Cox when the veteran skipper was evaluating talent in the Arizona Fall League.

A couple of things stand out:

1. The Braves are really going to pay Tyler Yates’ arbitration price?

2. Earlier Bowman said Bennett would start the season in the bullpen, because he likely wouldn’t get a rotation spot and he’s out of options. But the 7-man bullpen list provided by Bowman here (Soriano, Moylan, Yates, Ascosta, Boyer, Ohman and Devine/Ring/Morton) doesn’t make it look like there is any room for him. So unless the Braves want to give up on Boyer, it kind of looks like Bennett is gone. There is just no room for him in a rotation with arguably seven better candidates or the bullpen.

By ReelFan

December 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

What is up with Cormier? Not much has been said about his release. Hot coming out of camp last year and put on a shelf for injury. Is he totally out of Braves plans? Seems like a fast free-fall.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, It’s your world, kid. The rest of us just payin’ rent.

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the latest offering. Much appreciated.

Ah yes. I am correct. It was the AJC site and not the blog size itself. I was blogging away by accessing the site through a different portal. No one responded. It was lonely and depressing. Apparently the “crash” couldn’t even be managed by Mozilla. But enough… here is the summary of the what I was saying:

Two interesting articles. This one on ESPN cracks me up. And This one by everyone’s favorite Dayn Perry.

I’m not so sure I agree with Perry’s Mets pick, but he really didn’t list win/loss records and did claim it was going to be a close call, which sounds about right. The Braves not winning the Division doesn’t shock me all that much, he really hasn’t displayed any sort of man crush for the Braves as he has for the Mets. But, I’m even further removed from the streak now and the affects of such an historical run are wearing off. Basically, I’m sobering up on the out look of my Braves and I don’t see this team as a big time competitor for a World Series appearance much less a World Series ring. 3rd place seems a bit too far back, but again it depends on the records. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was second place and a game out or something of that ilk. And after this season it could get considerably worse as the turn over increases. Wren has shown a distinct aversion to acquiring real major league ready talent. Unfortunately there will be no more great table-setting team-helping veterans to ship off for rookie ball players, so perhaps we will be fed some drivel about the latest draft picks and how, in 4 or 5 years they’ll be up on the stage making a name for themselves.

I miss the days of JS. He’d see a hole that needs to be plugged and he get an all-star. Guess that’s why he’s headed to Cooperstown. These days we get a plethora of rookie ballers and they up the ticket prices. Odd isn’t it? The talent level in Atlanta hasn’t increased as much as it has in all the farm club cities, yet Atlanta raised it’s prices.

By nOLIE

December 10, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Any chance on Taguchi or Mench?

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Oh no he di’int. Aye, Papi, I did not know you could do me like that. I ain’t mad at ya. Got nothin’ but love for ya. Don’t playa hate, congratulate.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Boy, I bet this is the last time Michael Vick takes advice from O.J. Simpson when he told Mike to just kill the bi**ch….

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Like a man smoking at a gas station, he was about to blow up!

By Lew

December 10, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

DOB-Just had an email from another Denizen. He states that the Mets have shown interest in 45 year old pitcher Jeff Fassaro and are having him work out in the Mexican Winter League. Is there any truth to this rumor that you know of? If true, it sure puts the Mets dilemma in a harsher light. If THAT’S who they are putting their bets on, then they are in some mighty deep manure.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

fo’ shizzle, my o’bizzle

By flange1

December 10, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Jared,

Interesting that you brought up Bowman’s bullpen article, I was just going to do the same!

Who do we think will be in the pen?

Soriano, Moylan, Acosta and Ohman are pretty much guaranteed.

Yates, Boyer and Bennet are out of options.

Devine and Ring have 1 option left.

Gil has told us that Boyer did not look to good in Richmond last year.

Yates was OK in Atlanta save 1 month, but is going to be expensive.

Devine was the human yo-yo last year, but DOB says that Bobby was happy with his work and his attitude.

Ring has talent, but lacks control of his pitches.

I think the pen will consist of Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Ohman, Devine, Boyer and Bennett for long man.

Thoughts?

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

You ain’t got to go home, but you got to get the heck up outta here.

By Anders

December 10, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOB *But whether they admit it or not, there will also be some question, some nervousness, until Soriano gets through the first couple of months healthy and without going through another brutal stretch of home runs allowed like he endured last summer. He’s The Man now, and that brings a whole different level of pressure.

He’s undoubtedly got the stuff to be a fine closer. And I think he’s got the mentality. But we’ll find out, won’t we?*

I think that’s a fair assessment of the Braves closer status. It’s certainly not a slam dunk and has to be an area of guarded concern until Soriano show’s himself to be up to it for the long haul.

As for the rest of the bullpen - one of the top 5 NL East maybe not the whole league - Just kidding. Everyone relax.

By Giddyaztec

December 10, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

The Curse of Mike Hampton!… my birthday is Dec. 9th… no wonder my life has been confused and broken down with glimpses of hope only to be dashed since the year 2000! But now I know there is light at the end of the tunnel… Dec. 9, 2008 will be the start of a new life of hope with lots of extra cash to spend!

By Giddyaztec

December 10, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

The Curse of Mike Hampton!… my birthday is Dec. 9th and I’m a lifelong Braves fan… no wonder my life has been confused and broken down with glimpses of hope only to be dashed since the year 2000! But now I know there is light at the end of the tunnel… Dec. 9, 2008 will be the start of a new life of hope with lots of extra cash to spend!

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Lord, DOB made his kinfolk proud: Pookie, Ray-Ray, Moesha….

By Irvin, Jaworski, Tom Jackson

December 10, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Stu, after reading DOB’s comments, we got one thing to say to you bro, you got JACKED UP!

By Saltywoody

December 10, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

JILL

Worst spelling in the history of blogs. Albie Lopez and Charlie Leibrandt are going to be knocking on your door very shortly.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul-Dude, you want a World Series Champion and it will cost Atlanta fans what it costs in Boston. My wife and I went to see the Braves for ONE game last year. The tickets (good ones, in the second section behind the Braves’ dugout) cost us $155 apiece. We won’t even discuss the concessions or the hotel room. You’re complaining that they raised the price of 1500 premium seats? Dude, if you want the horses, it’s time you realize that you damn well will pay for them or go with nags instead. That’s life. You just don’t get high definition for an analog price tag. That’s the way it works these days in MLB. Fill all your seats at every game like the Red Sox do and merchandise the living hell out of the Braves throughout the entire southeast. THEN you may get what you wish for. If not, you won’t. It is that simple. It’s time for the fans to attend all the games. Otherwise, you will not get what you want. Period. You expect Liberty Media to spend upwards of $120 million or more, then you’d better show them your support. Otherwise, it ain’t happening.

By flange1

December 10, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Here is a link to the Fassaro story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/12/09/2007-12-09luisvizcainoispricingselfoutta_town-1.html

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Call me big daddy when you back that thing up.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, it’s my world. You’re just a squirrel tryin’ to get a nut.

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Gil good one.

Jared Man, do you just look for a reason, any reason to diss on Bennett??? Why don’t we just let the chips fall where they may. It is ridiculous to sit here in December and declare a particular player DOA.

So unless the Braves want to give up on Boyer, it kind of looks like Bennett is gone. There is just no room for him in a rotation with arguably seven better candidates or the bullpen.

So, I think I will reserve judgement on who will or will not make the bullpen or rotation until they actually throw some pitches in the spring. Personally, I like having about 1.5 times as many arms as you need. Something ALWAYS comes up.

Besides, you haven’t factored in guys like Resop, Schreiber, Stockman, Jung or Bueno. Those guys are close enough to get a tryout in the spring. If Stockman stays healthy, he has a cannon that would be perfect for the pen.

So, while I won’t get into calling you “your and idiot” or anything like that, I do think it’s time to tone down the negative Bennett stuff. Besides, what if the guy actually shines? I don’t think 2 years ago anybody expected much from Moylan. Now he’s a pillar of the pen.

BTW, I disagree with Bowman’s ascertion that Moylan would be the set up man. I see him being used like he was last year. Often times the first or second guy out of the pen. You can bring him into any situation to get a ground out and he can pitch anywhere from the 5th through the 9th. Lots of benny’s having a guy that can do that.

Whaddya think, Jared?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

On Bowman, Bennett and Devine… I would suggest that mark Bowman needs to re-take baseball economics 101. Boyer = no options left, Bennett = no options left, Joey Devine = options left. Guess who gets the first ticket to Richmond next year? Boyer and Bennett would never clear waivers next spring.

It is going to be Boyer’s and Bennett’s spots to lose next spring unless they are traded for a center fielder. Jeff Bennett has not done anything to make his stock fall in the past 6 months. Of course Blaine could always drop another house on himself…..

Jeff Fassaro …. Who do they get to stand in for him to throw to? Julio Franco???? Man, must be the water in Mexico… or something…

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

I like the way you work it. No diggity.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

I think that’s a fair assessment of the Braves closer status. It’s certainly not a slam dunk and has to be an area of guarded concern until Soriano show’s himself to be up to it for the long haul.

Anders, Call Soriano carwash ‘cuz he’s automatic.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

That must be jam cuz jelly doesn’t shake like that.

By McFann

December 10, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Um……hi there. Remember me?

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

10Paul Lew is dead on about the attendance and marketing. While I love the south, we are not as passionate overall for our pro baseball team as the Bostonians’ (and many other cities) are for their team. What is the situation with the college football games? Are they sold out for most of the schools? Asking, cause I really don’t know.

Why do you think it is that we can’t seem to 100% support a MLB team in Atlanta???

By McFann

December 10, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Um……hi there. Remember me?

Hey, uga, if you’re out there, I just want to tell you:

GO TECH!!

(Sorry if this post is up twice.)

By Jeff Bennett

December 10, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Jared What happened? Did you mother lie to you and say that I was your father and that I have been missing child support payments or something?

By the kid

December 10, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

I am honored to be alllowed to be considered as a newcomer to this blog…Tigers should be great but, watch out for the Indians…

By ssiscribe

December 10, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Jared: Yes, the Braves will go to arbitration with Yates, and they should. I can’t remember who pointed it out on the last blog, but Yates was a victim of overuse last year (as was most of the Braves’ pen, when you factor in the struggles for innings from the back side of the rotation). Yates has good stuff and is a key part of their pen in 2008.

On Bennett, I think he’s a darkhorse to make the team, especially if Jurrjens (who they are sky-high on) can show he’s ready to pitch every fifth day. And, if Hampton can pitch every fifth day (and Heaven knows nobody is counting on it happening until we see it happen), then there only will be one rotation spot open. No Hampton, then Bennett’s got a better chance, obviously. Otherwise, there’s just one spot for James, Jurrjens, Reyes, Bennett and Morton to fight for, and I think James and Jurrjens are the two favorites from that group.

Bullpen in my mind right now is Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Ring (I really think the Braves want and need two lefties down there, but Ring’s gotta throw strikes) and Acosta in the first five spots. After that, Boyer is out of options and maybe can regain his 2005 form now that the past two injury-riddled campaigns are past him. Devine impressed with his attitude and his pitching down the stretch. What of Phil Stockman, who was injured parts of last season but throws very hard and has good stuff?

And of course, they get Gonzalez back sometime after the All-Star break. Definitely the potential to be one of the top three bullpens in the NL, especially if they get the non-Wrigley Ohman and if Moylan/Soriano can duplicate their success from last season. I agree with all that Soriano is worth watching, because closing is different from being a set-up guy. But his one big rough stretch last season came when he was still setting up Wickman.

Jill: Who is Buzz Campaz? Are you thinking Buzz Capra, who led the NL with a 2.28 ERA in 1974 while winning 16 games?

nOLIE: I don’t think the Braves need to look outside the organization for center field. I know Frank Wren continues to talk and maybe something will develop, but when I look at it, I don’t think they need to do anything.

It’s a bit of a risk to go with unproven commodities out there, I admit, but bringing in a veteran free agent is going to cost substantially more than paying one of the kids (Anderson, Blanco, Schafer, Lillibridge) the minimum. Can you find a free agent who will sign a one-year deal? There is no need to sign somebody to a multi-year deal if you believe, as the Braves do, that Schafer will be ready by opening day 2009, if not sooner.

I say you let the four kids battle it out. Anderson’s sample size of major-league experience is small, but at the same time, he did perform well in his short stint with the Astros in September. His minor league numbers are good. Schafer really needs at least a half season at Double-A. If Lillibridge can play the position full-time, then you give him a shot; otherwise, he’s better suited to be playing in Richmond every day (kid doesn’t need to sit; same mindset with Escobar, hence the trade of Edgar to free up room for Yunel to play every day).

Stuart: Time for your medicine.

—30—

By Jared

December 10, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

It is going to be Boyer’s and Bennett’s spots to lose next spring unless they are traded for a center fielder.

Boyer and Bennett are not going to be traded. They have no real value in a trade.

As for their “spots to lose”, I believe that is more your wishful thinking than anything else.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Just call him butter cuz he’s on a roll.

By StingerSplash

December 10, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Wondered why my ESPN viewing experience was suddenly so much better than before. Too bad a good journalist like Sal Paolantonio had to put up with that wind in Baltimore after last week’s MNF and Emmitt Smith’s non-answers (did he major in State Department at UF?). And had “Stuck Inside of Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again” cranked up to 11 on the way home from work way late at night last week. It’s always a more appreciated gem when the radio station decides to play that at 2 a.m. or later.

By N8

December 10, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

That’s what I’ve been saying (about the ripping of Andruw in the LA paper).

Atlanta fans have been hanging on to what he WAS when judging him and his importance to this team.

I have numorous friends that are NOT Braves fans, that aren’t nearly as impressed with him. In fact, living where I live, there isn’t many people (if any) that would take Andruw over Hunter.

11 years later, he hasn’t improved (other than the one year, that can now be deemed a fluke - as far as I’m concerned).

That being said, I did read wher one nation writer (forgot who) stated that Andruw was the steal of the winter. Since they only had to sign him for two years. That way if he bombs (which I think he will), they can quickly get out under the contract.

The dude is in for a rude awakening. Last time I checked Terrence Moore doesn’t write for the LA Times. They have NO TIES to him whatsoever.

So the question is this….How will Andruw react (on the field), after he is booed ridiculously when slumping (which he will), and when the press rips him a new azz.

I think he’ll crumble under the Hollywood spotlight, and not having Bobby by his side to cuddle with him.

Of course, he can always go to a Lakers game with Bora$$, then have a sleep-over at his house. :-)

By Lew

December 10, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Jared-Sorry, Dude, you’re absolutely wrong. I know you’ve got a H##d On for Bennett, but they are not just going to dump these guys with no options because of your ridiculous dislike of them.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

One positive thing about a good pitcher, you can trade him for anything you need. However, I think we are seeing the Braves trying to bridge over to their next generation of pitchers. You just cannot keep a staff of 40 something starters and expect them not to break down.

Man, I loved it when the the Braves had the Big Three but face it, Smoltz is defying gravity right now and Glavin is really running on fumes.

I think the Braves are trying to hold on until Chuck James has developed his out pitch and JoJo matures into the next John Smoltz. Kids like Morton were not even on the chart until he made a great start in the AFL in front of the brass.

It is a big if but if Hampton shows up this year and pitches like what we saw in that one inning in Mexico then look out…. We are going to the big dance…

Of course the American league will have their own problems. The Tigers are my pre-season pick no matter who gets Satana. The have a better line up than anyone and a Smart manager in Leland who knows how to use them.

The may not have the strongest defense but the are going to flat out club some teams to death this year. There are going to be some over 40 beer league like scores posted. They may even have to institute the 10 run slaughter rule.

By ssiscribe

December 10, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

In my post above, in talking about in my mind the candidate for the Braves pen, I left out Yates. Put him in there with Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Ring and Acosta. That narrows the race for the final spot, but just goes to show there is plenty of depth in the pen, and why a guy like Ascanio was expendable (especially for a vet lefty reliever AND a needed utility guy).

—30—

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Maybe I was premature in not stating to Jared that “your and idiot!”???

By Lew

December 10, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Jared-One more thing. The Mets are bring 45 year old Jeff Fassaro out of mothballs to give him a chance. YOu realy think there is no market for Boyer and Bennett? You think someone would really rather have an ancient retread than to give those two guys a chance? YOUR wishful thinking Dude. You are totally wrong, totally irrational, and totally clueless if you believe they have no worth. They are pitchers with arms attached. They have value..

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Got more flavor than Kool-Aid and cocoa.

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Man, I love a new blog, so fast….

Gotta run get some dental work …. ouch! (Jared, that’s your lead to rip me a new one.)

I am always willing to accommodate my blogging detractors!

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

You better recognize.

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

I thought Ron Paul was a point guard??? Is he running for prez?

By Thrillhouse44

December 10, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

“You are totally wrong, totally irrational, and totally clueless if you believe they have no worth. They are pitchers with arms attached. They have value..” Lew

“He’s more hardcore than the Wu Tang Clan on steroids” Stu

By doug

December 10, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Wayne, that ‘your and idiot’ just never get’s old. In fact it’s as cool as the other side of the pillow.

By Anders

December 10, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

Stuart Scott

Anders, Call Soriano carwash ‘cuz he’s automatic.

That’s ironic because I call Tom Glavine car wash ‘cuz he’s washed up. Hope there’s no confusion on the mound next year.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 10, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

I was thinking about the configuration of the roster when it occurred to me that the Braves have a rather unwanted problem.

Andruw and Willie played every game in CF during the 2007 season. Both are gone. Cox will want to carry four outfielders , seven infielders , two catchers and 12 pitchers as he has done in the past.

Francoeur and Diaz are locked in as the only two veteran outfielders , neither plays CF. The Braves are still looking for a veteran CF. Is Brandon Jones going to platoon with Diaz in LF ? If so , how are the Braves going to cover CF with two outfielders.

Josh Anderson , Gregor Blanco and Jordan Schafer all play CF. The Braves need at least two guys who can play the position.

My point is : The Braves look as if they might have to carry five outfielders whether Cox wants to or not. Leaving the infield or pitching short one player.

This is a problem that will have to play itself out in spring training.

By David-ATL14

December 10, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

Stellar song selection DOB.

Still reading that Olivo will be non tendered by the Marlins.

DOB do you think it’s a possibility that Wren will have some interest in him?

He fits the bill as far as being an everdy option of something should disable McCann.

Would be worth looking into IMO.

By Steamboat

December 10, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

I agree with scribe that we should consider keeping 2 lefties in the ‘pen to start the year.

Ohman is probably a given; and Ring is too much of a commodity to just give away (potentially, anyway).

The guy is a former 1st round pick; and in 52 major league games, his BA Against is .182 against lefties, and .205 against righties. Granted that’s in just 52 games spread over 4 years, but still… have you seen the price of lefthanded relievers lately? He walks too many (what lefty reliever doesn’t?) but hopefully can work on that.

We started ‘07 with 2 lefties - Gonzo and McBride. I think (hope) we’ll do the same this year.

By Ron Paul

December 10, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Hi, I’m Ron Paul and I have nothing to do with baseball so completely disregard everything you hear about me in this post. Go Braves!

 P.S. (vote Mike Huckabee!)

By flange1

December 10, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Interesting talk on options, looking more to the bench,

We know Thorman is out of options.

I think Prado and Anderson still have 1 left.

I think Aybar and Blanco are out of options.

I wonder there is a trade to upgrade a relief spot or a bench spot by packaging some of the no option guys..

Thoughts?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Sometimes I think some of the posters are really AJC staffers used as “plants” to keep the blog riled up. I mean really….. Hey, it worked for FEMA… Well, almost….

I mean, is there such a term as functionally stupid???

By ncscoots

December 10, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

It’s a bit of a risk to go with unproven commodities out there, I admit, but bringing in a veteran free agent is going to cost substantially more than paying one of the kids

scribe, it’s not just CF you’re talking about. In the “go with a kid in CF” scenario, you could conceivably start an OF with two rookies and a 3rd-year guy. That’s a little too young for a good night’s sleep, IMO.

Randy Winn is still the best choice for CF, as far as I’m concerned, but Giants can’t actually trade him (not with their already-woeful offense), so that’s the name of THAT tune. But paying some veteran some dollars, or expending lower-level prospects in a trade, is a whole lot more cost-effective than watching an inexperienced OF figuring out who is supposed to be going for the ball.

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

doug a classic never goes out of style!

Coach Chances are, unless another deal that clarifies the situation comes along, one scenario might be just 6 infielders, with Pena covering some other positions, as well as being a backup catcher.

But, I truly suspect Pena will be traded, and we might end up having one of our 5 outfielders cover first base, unless Thorman survives the winter and spring.

Too many unanswered questions right now, and as you state, it will settle in the spring (just like the rotation and pen).

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

McFann Whaddya think? Can Baby Huey learn to play first base, in case we trade Pena, and have a backup catcher that can only catch???

By Thrillhouse44

December 10, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

ChrisInPA, you’re breaking rules man. I don’t care if you’re pushing Ron Paul, Ron Gant, or Ron Mexico - I don’t care to hear it.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

ChrisinPA Surely you jest, the only way to end government corruption is to end government. Then it would just be extortion.

By nOLIE

December 10, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

nOLIE: I don’t think the Braves need to look outside the organization for center field. I know Frank Wren continues to talk and maybe something will develop, but when I look at it, I don’t think they need to do anything.Scribe

I’m ambivalent about that. Some days I think the current group is worth a shot and other days I think I want someone with more experience. There is always a chance that Shafer will not develop in time for this season and I am somewhat worried about both Anderson and Blanco(wouldn’t it be great if Blanco could play regularly and put up the OBP numbers that he has so far in the minors?). There will be some non-tendered outfielders popping up now like Taguchi and others Some of them will likely be glad to get any kinda offer. I’m looking forward to another signing or two if for no other reason than to alleviate the boredom of the next few months. C’mon Feb!

By 22oz

December 10, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Has this blog gotten so big that we are now a demographic, being reached out to by candidates?

ChrisinPA, you better watch it or you’ll find yourself blogging with ChopChick, who has just declared that blogs once a month are too strenuous, so she’ll be on vacation til’ spring.

By MGL

December 10, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Coach - Infante can play outfield.

By It's A Wonderful Life

December 10, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

AROD is Mr. Potter

By Wayne in Utah

December 10, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Chris While I may agree with your politics, this ain’t the place. We come here to get away from all that political bs.

By DAP

December 10, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Coach The Braves look as if they might have to carry five outfielders whether Cox wants to or not. Leaving the infield or pitching short one player.

im not sure if this is really the case. francouer CAN play center if they need him to. played out there twice in ‘06. i know thats not alot, but he CAN play out there. also, b. jones CAN plan out there. thats where he played this winter, remember. again, its not ideal, but if they need him to, he is capable. also, infante, the backup SS from the cubs has played CF in the past.

i think what is likely to happen is the braves will want whoever they pick to play CF (anderson, blanco, lillibridge) to play everyday. one of the other three (infante, francouer, b. jones, probably in that order) will play in case of emergency.

BTW, are we allowing politics and religion on the blog now? cause i have lots of stuff i could say…

By Chop Chop

December 10, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

What’s up, Stu?

It’s time to bust off some MAN STREMF.

The Lord said, “You’ve got to rise UP-UH!”

(regarding DOB) Hater in the house!

Okay. Now that I’ve gotten that out of my system, mad props to DOB for posting those lyrics. Str8 butta, DOB. Str8 butta.

By nOLIE

December 10, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

My point is : The Braves look as if they might have to carry five outfielders whether Cox wants to or not. Leaving the infield or pitching short one player.Coach

Perhaps but I don’t think that it’s a necessity. They would be able to throw Frenchy in there in an emergency and bring Lillibridge or someone else with options up from AAA right away. I’m guessing four outfielders. We’ll see.

By BosnianBaller

December 10, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

The most important move made this offseason was Brian Mccann getting lasik eye surgery.if he was good before just imagine how good he will be now

By MGL

December 10, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Lo Duca to the Nats on one year deal.

By Novice Ned

December 10, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

I have no problem with what Wren paid for Glavine, I just think that leasing a car for 1 year makes very, very little sense. In a perfect scenario, Glavine won’t even be able to tutor Reyes and James because Hampton will stay healthy and Jurriens is the last starter on the squad. (At least it feels like Jurriens is considered a better pitching prospect than James).

I’m anxious to hear about Stockman and Boyer in February. They were 2 of my favorite up and coming relievers before injuries bumped them off the path.

By Braveheart

December 10, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Eff Ron Paul. I’m voting for Ron Jeremy.

By Jared

December 10, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

…but they are not just going to dump these guys with no options because of your ridiculous dislike of them.

I don’t want to dump Boyer. I want to keep him.

Bennett on the other hand can just go right ahead and be released in late spring because there is no room for him in the rotation or the bullpen.

Ron Paul 2008: Say Yes to Dr. No!

By ncscoots

December 10, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Coach, re your 3:55, it’s even worse than you portray. Diaz can’t play anywhere but LF, and most of the rookie options for CF are lefties. One more reason the Braves need a vet in CF…as long as it’s not the unnamed one from SD, HA!

Seriously, how is Francoeur ever supposed to get a day off? Brandon Jones could spell him occasionally against a tough righty, I guess, but a Diaz-rookie-rookie OF on a given day? Mercy. And jeepers.

By Braveheart

December 10, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Why would I vote for Rupaul?

By McFann

December 10, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Can McCann learn to play first base?

N-O spells no!!

I agree with the guy that said the thing about B-Mac’s Lasik, BTW.

As long as everyone else is throwin’ in their stuff:

VOTE FOR MIT(T?)

I would, but I’m too young to vote.

By Thrillhouse44

December 10, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Can Ron Paul play center field?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 10, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

The infield is locked in. Chipper at 3B , Escobar at SS , Johnson at 2B with Aybar and Infante backing up all three positions.

Teixeira and Thorman round out the seven infielders as the two first sackers.

Baby Huey , Pena and or Sammons are the two catchers.

Cox ain’t gonna short his bullpen. He will go seven deep in the Pen. Include the five starters and thats twelve pitchers.

Leaving the four roster spots in the outfield.

I’m glad this isn’t my problem to figure out. Although , it’s nice to have so much depth.

By DAP

December 10, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned im not sure if james is considered a prospect anymore. hes got a year and a half major league service and has proven to be a good starter. hes got a big advantage on jurjens to make the rotation. i think the only james ISNT in the rotation is if he gets injured.

By DAP

December 10, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

scoots why cant diaz play right? i think he can.

By Stuart Scott

December 10, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Rock me Amadeus. Hear the drummer get wicked!

By JC FROM UT

December 10, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

DOB:Anything further on Damian Miller?

By DAP

December 10, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

scoots diaz has a 1.000 fielding percentage in right field!! hes a defensive wizard out there! :-)

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

DAP, glad you included Acosta. I forgot to mention him (went back in just now and added him). There’s also Blaine Boyer and Phil Stockman, if they’re healthy. And Jeff Bennett could serve as a long man/spot starter, provided he doesn’t win a rotation spot.

By brent a.

December 10, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I would take $18 million a year to get booed and attend Lakers games. :)

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, just starting reading from the bottom up and saw your “Hater in the house.” Damn, man, that is the single most annoying thing said on air since “Seacrest, out.” But it’s also the high-pitched voice that Stu says it in that only adds exponentially to the annoyance factor.

Rise UP-UH, indeed.

By Steamboat

December 10, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman predicts that Prado and Infante will be the infield backups, and that “If this is the case, Willy Aybar would be the odd man out.” Lillibridge will start the year in the minors.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Alright folks… calm down, let’s look at this from the “Braves’s Model” perspective. As far as position players go, the Braves always try to bring one rookie position player into the line up each year. I think this year it is going to be Brandon Jones.

Now, Brandon could fill in in center field as he has the speed to do so, he is just not an everyday major league center fielder. Doug Clark is the back up outfielder for the Braves stashed in the minors right now, but that would only be if they needed a lefty. I am not sure who the right handed bat would be.

A lot of things can happen between now and next April. Chill dudes, lots of film still to watch before the Braves need to make wholesale changes.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

ChrisInPA: Enough. Take it to a political blog, or send it in a vent to the AJC. But not here.

By Tim

December 10, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

I think it’s time to start a new post…

this one is clearly out of control. You all disgust me….

however, i disgust myself sometimes so vote for MIKE HUCKABEE!!!

By McFann

December 10, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

I don’t want this blog to turn political, but Tom A. Hawk, you are sooooooo correct!!

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Bob Klapish of ESPN.com has an interesting article on the state of the Mets.

[Read it here[(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=3148683)

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

bosnian baller, mcfann,

the lasik surgery was done to make the portions on his plate look bigger than the actually are.

By Dick

December 10, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t matter who we have on roster, or how for we go into play offs, etc you all have forgotten one important item. We still have Bobby Cox.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Stuart Scott, I’d forgotten a few of those. I take it back — I miss you, man. We gotta have block party when you return, throw old some old Parliament….

By Free Choice

December 10, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Having the spellcheck off is one thing, but you could really use the grammer check feature!

By flange1

December 10, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

I am not sure whom I like best, Ron Jeremy or RuPaul.

Tough choices…..

Did you know that RuPaul’s Atlanta based punk band was called Wee Wee Pole?

You could always tell when Ru was out at 688, he was the only 6’8” guy in the house…

Nice guy too!

By McFann

December 10, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Oh crud. uga’s back. Ya know, I was right. When I was gone, this dumb poking-fun didn’t happen. Well, OK. Maybe I’ll just REALLY try to ignore it this time…………

AAAAAAAA!!!!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!

I know that gives you guys such joy.

Go Tech!!

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Jared, Braves are going to tender all their remaining arb-eligibles this week: Infante, Diaz, Yates, Soriano and Teixeira, obviously.

Only other one was Harris, who was dropped from 40-man and designated for assignment. They’ll probably either trade him or try to re-sign him to a minor league contract.

But yes, in answer to your question, they’ll pay Yates’ arb salary. They really like his stuff.

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Let me try this again…..

Mets article is here

By big fan

December 10, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

I’ve never been first at anything

By BamaBrave

December 10, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Politics…yawn

Hey DOB, did you get to the Loveless Cafe? Last summer, I dragged the missus up to Nashville to see Black Rebel Motorcycle Club. We stayed up way too late…and the next morning, feeling somewhat shaky, made the trek out to the Loveless, where we were brought back to life by perhaps the greatest breakfast I’ve ever had, the Pit-Cooked Pork BBQ and Eggs, with all the side items. Sublime.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Free Choice, regarding your 4:57 p.m. post:

Why, so I can be like you and misspell “grammar” (it’s two a’s, no e) and use an exclamation mark where a simple period would suffice?

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

you want a World Series Champion and it will cost Atlanta fans what it costs in Boston

Lew: I’m sorry, I disagree. Even on the attendance thing. I agree that more money would only truly come from increased attendance or a belligerent owner, but I disagree that more money is what is needed to win a World Series. Money doesn’t win it. Money does sustain it. There is a difference. To sustain a winning level, or a winning team, the team needs money. But to get there and win it doesn’t. For examples go back and review the last 7 years of World Series teams. You’ll see a good mix of the “haves” and the “have nots”.

The one thing a team needs to advance is moves and trades which bring back major league talent and not rookie ball talent. It’s December now so I think it’s safe to blog about this, even though nothing has changed since the first time I brought this up and was castigated by a few. This team isn’t built to win it all. The moves made were to restock the farm and maintain the same level of competition. That level of competition wasn’t enough to get into the post season this past year (Witness the swoon that occurred with AJ in the line up with his 88 OPS+ and Yunel in the line up and Teixeira in the line up, now subtract that 88 OPS+ and look at the lower level of production that is being suggested from CF and do the math). At best Wren has treaded water on the major league level and stocked the minors with “potential”. And after last nights Wulitzer you should well know the benefits of potential as it materializes on the major league level. It isn’t a guarantee. It’s a nice comforter, but nothing more.

Back to the money thing, this off season reinforces the point. To sustain the level of production the Braves had in 2007 the management infused more cash to retain players. It doesn’t make the team a World Series contender or threat. It just helps maintain the pace set in 2007 with a similar line up. Come 2009 the turn over will be greater and we will be faced with even more holes and we will still have the same problems. That is, free agents are too expensive. And with each passing week fewer and fewer quality Free Agent pitchers are aiming for the 2008/2009 market. If Johan gets traded, he’s off the market. Peavy is off the market. Haren was never going to be available in next off season’s free agent class. But we will still need pitching to replace Hampton and Glavine. We are still going to have to sign Teixeira, a forgone impossibility (whatever competitive offer the Braves make at least two teams will be able surpass it).

This off season was a prime time to build for that turn over and advance the club beyond its second straight 3rd place finish. I’ve been blasted before for mentioning this, but it doesn’t change the fact that our major acquisitions to improve a team that finished in third were this: Minor league CF Anderson. Minor League CF Gorkys. Minor League pitcher Jair. And a prayer that Jordan Schafer is actually going to be good at a level above rookie ball.

The Braves should have players to trade next off season if they wish to fill the holes in the roster by that method, but I can guarantee you at that time there will be a plethora of bloggers bemoaning the mortgaging of the future to win now when the move is made. However, given Wrens trade history so far, I wouldn’t bank on anything major coming back. It will be a long time coming before another World Series Champion is in Atlanta. Either because the team isn’t making the moves to acquire major league talent, or because the team is waiting around to see if maybe these kids with “potential” actually fulfill their promise.

By McFann

December 10, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

…they’ll pay Yates’ arb salary. They really like his stuff.

Aw, darn.

By Jared

December 10, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

But yes, in answer to your question, they’ll pay Yates’ arb salary. They really like his stuff.

Thanks. I like Tyler Yates. But I always suspected for some reason he was another Kevin Gryboski, by which I mean a player the Braves keep till the price gets moderately-expensive and then trade/dump. I’m glad they’re keeping Yates.

I’m not at all trying to be political, but McFann’s 4:32 post reminded me of this, and it’s mildly Braves related:

Donar Look-up: Atlanta Braves

Three people involved with the Braves have donated money to a political candidate this election cycle. Smoltz donated 2,300 dollars to Mitt Romney on June 18, Dale Murphy donated 2,300 to Mitt Romney on March 12 and Mike Plant (says: ATLANTA BRAVES/EXECUTIVE VP BUSN OP) donated 500 dollars to Romney on May 15, 2007.

Mitt Romney: official candidate of the Atlanta Braves?

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

Flange1, you gave this as your predicted ‘pen: Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Ohman, Devine, Boyer and Bennett for long man.

I agree with most, but as long as Devine has an option, no way he gets a spot over Yates. So they either trade Yates (haven’t heard anything like that, at least not yet) or they have him in the ‘pen.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

BamaBrave, didn’t get out of the monolithic Winter Meetings hotel. Winter meetings stink, man. You’re tied to the hotel just in case something happens.

I agree with you on the Loveless. Sublime breakfast. That sounds like the perfect way to experience it, the way you did after a long night seeing Black Rebel Motorcycle Club — or any good band or solo artist, for that matter.

By Saltywoody

December 10, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

For all the nay-sayers regarding Yates out there, I’ll just offer a quick point.

I saw the Bravos play the Giants when they were in the Bay Area last year and set front row next to the bullpen while Yates was warming up.

The guy is as intense and as serious a competitor as they come, which is a nice thing to add alongside a nasty slider and a 95-97mph fastball. Oscar, Wickman, and Paronto all warmed up, too, and NONE of them displayed the intensity that Yates did. Yates looked like he wanted to be in that game…the others looked like they were there simply because they had to be.

Now, I know intangibles only carry someone so far…but judging from the little bit I saw of him, I’d want Yates in my bully any day of the week. Assuming he doesn’t get overused like he may have been last year, his stuff is nasty and so is he. That’s the kind of guy we want and need out there.

By beachcomber

December 10, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

DOB - Thought it was only me that gagged when hearing cool side of the pillow for the four millionth time.

That however was offset two weeks ago by a special appearance on the Sports Reporters by Steven A? Smith. Now there’s a guy who makes Scott seem palatable.

Thanks for the new blog. Your segement on the pen makes one appreciate the work of JS/FW.

By McFann

December 10, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Hey!! Where did that post by Tom A. Hawk go? That was funny!

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

Someone asked about Taguchi — yes, I could see Braves making a cheap offer to him. Someone like him or Patterson, at a low salary, makes sense based on what Braves say they’re looking for at CF.

By Saltywoody

December 10, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Anyone know what’s going on with Sean Casey?

Can’t imagine he fits into the Tigers’ plans with everyone they’ve got now.

Not saying he’d fit with the Braves, as he’d probably be expensive and he’s a much better DH at this point. But, I’d love to know where, if anywhere, he’s headed…always liked him.

By McFann

December 10, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

YEAH!! GO SMOLTZ!!

Well, I gotta be goin’. We’re thinkin’ Arby’s. I might not be back ‘til tomorrow. I don’t spend all my free time hanging over this blog. Got dinner to eat, cookies to make, a bird to play with, a bed to sleep in, that kind of stuff.

By Shamus Thacker

December 10, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

I know this is off subject, BUT… I’d like to express tremendous shock at the injury to Mike Hampton. Who wouda ever thunk it!?

Great piece as always DOB. I don’t post much, but shore do pre-shate ya…

By Shamus Thacker

December 10, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

I gotta run too…

We’re thinkin Krystals, and a Pepto nightcap…

By mike

December 10, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

saltywoody, great name by the way, I agree with you that Yate’s accumlative totals last year could be attributed to being overused. He’s got great stuff and was almost unhittable in a few stretches. If Bobby finds a way to keep his innings down he will be a good asset to the bullpen

By Tom

December 10, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

DOB…can we get a “pick seven” from you on relievers? You said you liked Flange1’s picks (Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Ohman, Devine, Boyer and Bennett). That would mean Royce Ring would be cut. Not saying I disagree, but I’m curious who you’d pick.

Soriano, Ohman and Yates are in due to their guaranteed contracts. So you’ve got four spots, and none of Bennett, Boyer, Resop, or Ring still have options. If you’re going to carry Moylan, Acosta or Devine, you’d have to cut somebody.

Who goes?

By Lew

December 10, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Dude, YES it is about the money. Who are you going to trade and who are you going to trade for and then how do you pay for them once they’re on the team?

You’re obviously not pleased with the Renteria trade and who we got in return. Who did you think we were going to get for him? Johann Santana or Dan Haren? Do you truly believe that Frank Wren just grabbed the first deal he could find? Do you really think he didn’t bother shopping Edgar around or gauging interest wherever it existed? Reality check time. How do you keep Teixeira or sign the likes of Santana without money? Do you actually think that the 03 Marlins were the rule as opposed to the exception?

Look at the two teams widely considered to be the gold standard at the moment-The Red Sox and the Tigers. What do you think their payrolls are? How will you compete with them without spending money? I’ll tell you-you can’t.

You have the choice of two ways to go and a combo of the two (which is what the Braves are doing). You can go the Yankee/Red Sox route or you can go with a youth movement. OR-you can do what the Braves are doing-go with the best young guys you can find, interspersed with vets like Smoltz, Chipper and Tex. There is just no other way to do it and either way it will cost lots of $$$$$-unless you want to be Tampa Bay or Pittsburg.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 10, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , I could live with Taguchi. No way do I want to see Patterson in a Braves uniform , the team just let one underachieving CF go , we don’t another one.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

McFann-Hope you enjoy playing with your bird.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Lew: I, too, was scratching my head over that one.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 10, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

The scouting report on So Taguchi.

Assets: Taguchi is a terrific outfielder and can be an excellent defensive replacement in the late innings. He’s also quick enough to be used as a pinch-runner.

Flaws: He has very little power and big-time heat can give him a hard time.

Career potential: A good guy to have on the bench.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Tom, I said I liked his picks for the most part, but that Yates would be there provided he’s not traded (and I haven’t heard anyone say he’s being shopped).

A lot can happen between now and spring, so this has to be a fluid list (Wren already said he’s still looking for bullpen help, if he can find it in a trade). If the season started today, I’d guess:

Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Yates, Ring, Bennett, and either Acosta, Boyer or Resop (because Boyer and Resop are out of options, one or both will likely be traded or kept, unless hurt or pitches terrible in spring).

Sorry if that’s not definitive enough, taking one of those last three options, but a decision doesn’t have to be made now by the team, and it’s kinda pointless for me to beat my head trying to weigh pros and cons of each guy. Things happen to make decisions easier. They always do.

By Bo

December 10, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

DOB- I think So Tagushi would be a very good pick for Braves. Between Anderson and Taguchi the Braves would have pretty great “D” in cf.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

DOB-I was hoping that like myself, he has a pet Parrot. They are high maintainance and do require your attention. However……..

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

Lew: You set up a lot of straw men there.
Do you truly believe that Frank Wren just grabbed the first deal he could find?
I can’t find a single post that suggested this is what I was saying.
Reality check time. How do you keep Teixeira or sign the likes of Santana without money?
I’ve already said I don’t think Teixeira will be around after next year. I say this because both the New York teams will be sitting high on new TV stations and new baseball stadiums in the largest market in America both having freed up 1B for the best available player. And both the current 1B options for these teams are making 16M for the Mets and 21M for the Yankees. So that’s that much more money those teams will have freed up if they don’t take the option years. And who would when you can sign the considerably better Mark Teixeira.

Basically, to sum up my original post in a more accurate way, I said it doesn’t take money to become a winning team and go to the WS. Teams with modest payrolls have been climbing up that ladder for the past 7 years at least. Just last year the Padres, Rockies and D-Backs all challenged for a spot and everyone of them is a “small market” club. And you yourself have spent countless hours blogging about how money doesn’t guarentee success. And this whole blog has had many a laugh over the 200 million the Yankees have spent every year this millenium and failed to win a single WS title.

Crap. I gotta run. I’ll pick this up a little later tonight. Sorry to cut it short.

By Metropolitan Man

December 10, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Just in case you guys forgot.

http://www.carlabraham.com/mets84.mpga

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

That mets song sounded like the theme song for a bad 70’s sitcom. If there’d been video along with it, I would have been expecting to see John Ritter in his double knits chasing Suzanne Somers around the apartment while Joyce Wood shook her head in a disapproving manner.

Dude, THAT’S YOUR THEME SONG? No wonder you guys are always behind the Yankees in the NY press. That song is a joke and you should be ashamed to have posted it here.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 10, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

speaking of Mark Teixeira. He was fifth among all first basemen in OPS (.963)

Howard was fourth at .976

Pujols had a tidy .997

Fielder came in second at .1013

And last but not least , the Legendary Carlos Pena chimed in with a .1038 OPS , third in the majors behind Ortiz(.1066) and A-Rod(.1067)

Yea , Carlos Pena. The free agent who signed with the Devil Rays for 800,000. Obviously the best free agent steal of 2007.

Carlos Pena : 46 HR’s - 121 RBI - .282 BA - 99 runs scored -29 doubles and that whopping OPS of .1038.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 10, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Evening all, Just in case you folks still don’t get it, I ran across a great quote from Jim Bowden of the Nationals. He said the key to your pitching staff is to find a bunch of starters who can give you 6 or 7 innings every time out. If you don’t your relief corp becomes irrelevant.

Didn’t we see that with the Braves last year? I’m still waiting to see if Chuck James masters that third pitch before penciling him in ahead of Jeff Bennett as a starter in 2008.

It all still come back to pitching, even the Tigers with that powerhouse line up has a great advantage now because they have a good young pitching staff too. Good pitching still beats good hitting 70% of the time.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-No, money doesn’t guarantee winning the World Series. However, if you want to sustain any kind of winning record AND compete in the World Series, then you have to grease palms. If not, you end up with the Marlins or the Rays-OR you do what the Braves are doing and go with good young guys, a strong farm system, a few vets and win that way.

BTW-Since you’re not happy with the direction the Braves are taking, what do you propose doing that the Braves are not? If you don’t think Tex will stay and we can’t get someone of Santana’s ability because we aren’t going to be able to afford them, then what is wrong with how the Braves are doing things? Quite honestly, what I take from your posts is that you’re p!$$ed that the Braves haven’t spent those many millions McGuirk talked about. I’m also not sure what you think is wrong with the acquistion of Jurrjens and Hernandez. From all the analysis I’ve heard, the Braves got a pair of pretty damn good young players. Leyland has said numerous times that had he remained with the Tigers, Jurrjens would have been their fifth starter.

I still contend you can’t have it both ways. You go the way of the Rays, the way of the Red Sox, or the way the Braves are going right now-and I damn well see a specific direction that Wren is taking. It isn’t that of the Sox and it isn’t that of the Rays. He is doing exactly what I would do under the circumstances. If you know of another way, then I’d sure like to hear it. I’m sure Frank Wren would, too.

By TommyP

December 10, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

So Taguchi….hmmmm….not exactly the type of guy I had in mind. However, if the Braves do go for one of the rookie centerfielders, not a bad platoon guy from the right side. Adds a little speed…vet…Japanese player which means best work habits on the team, probably. Still want McLouth.

Strange stat from nowhere: Josh Anderson was 5 for 6 last year in his short stint with the Astros…from the #2 hole in the lineup.

Wasn’t aware that Franklin Stubbs was our AA hitting coach. Or that Sixto Lezcano (one of my all-time favorite names) was a batting coach at the lower levels. Names from the past…

By Robert

December 10, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

“In a video posted on YouTube, Littell is perched on a wooden pallet bracing himself as assistants aim the barrel of a pitching machine between his legs. On cue, the machine fires a baseball that smacks Littell right in the — well, you know — with a resounding whomp.”

Can we get Cox into this video? Maybe sans the protecton?

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

tommy p,

speaking of cant miss prospects, that was the trio for the dodgers, franklin stubbs, greg brock, and mike marshall.

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Lew: Yes, I would have done things differently. I would have put nastolgia aside and attempted to acquire a better pitcher than Glavine, as I’ve said before. That’s 8 million that could have been put forth in acquiring something more long term. I would have worked to acquire a better Center Fielder. I would have done things differently, yes. I don’t know what would have worked and what wouldn’t as I am not a GM and not in position to make deals for the Braves. But I don’t think Wren has a track record yet that absolves him from scrutiny. So pardon me while I view his moves with skepticism.
You are correct. I am not entirely sold on these moves. I’m glad the farm has a lot more prospects. As I’ve said before, the odds of getting a quality player out of our system now have increased due to the increased volume of proclaimed prospects.
I’m not asking that they cut the payroll to bare bones and go from there. Nor am I asking that they spend like the Yankees and try to win. I don’t think any team needs to spead like mad to win. We can at least agree on this much, to sustain a club you need apply more money. I just don’t think these moves have built a World Series Caliber team. A division contender, yes. But I don’t think that is even a guarantee. It should be a fun season to watch, but I don’t expect it to end in late October with a World Title going to Atlanta. Do you? Do you honestly see a World Series team in 2008 for the Braves?
In the time we ran out a club with Yunel, Teixeira, and a mediocre CF we were .500. That is the team we have going into 2008.

And Lew, let me be clear here, I don’t think this team will win a World Series Title. I don’t think it will the year after either. Even with all these great young rookie ball players we have. It’ll be several years before they are on the team and several more before they can carry the team to a title. In the mean time we have more and more turn over and less and less solid replacements coming in and an even more expensive free agent market. And, as you can see this year, an expensive free agent market makes for an “expensive” trade market. Now, since it is too expensive to deal with this off season, how is it going to be more effective to shop for even more parts in an even more expensive market in the future?

I’ve read what people have said about Jair. It sounds wonderful and I hope it works out as well as it sounds. Take a look below and tell me which minor league pitcher you would have rather traded for:

  ERA  IP    SO  BB
A 2.94 499.0 509 180
B 3.21 502.2 404 121

Both pitchers received many praises and were highly ranked. Both have very similar numbers. One of them k’s a batter an inning the other less than that.
I hear Maybin was the better CF prospect in the Tiger organization. But that probably would have been too steep to acquire both him and Jair. Perhaps money could have been offered, I don’t know.

I do look forward to the answers you have for those few questions in my post.

By JimD

December 10, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Coach, as for a second OF to play CF, it has already been noted that B Jones and Francouer can play CF if needed. Also, I believe Lillibridge will make the team out of camp because of his versatility - including the ability to play CF, which he did in college. Of course there is a big difference playing CF at UofW and ATL. But maybe some time out there in the spring will be a refresher.

Lots of options for the Braves. I look to see them go with what they have and see what shakes out.

By JimD

December 10, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I saw the You Tube of the Nutty Buddy as well. Am I the only one who is a little uneasy with the fact that a high school girl is standing there feeding the pitching machine while Littell is digging in his pants?

By ncscoots

December 10, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Lew, if the Braves were really operating in the fashion you describe, there’d be an $8MM CF locked up before spring; a righty bat who could be counted on to solidify the OF defense and the bottom third of the order. So far, that guy is somewhere else.

Now, Wren may be posturing when he says he’s willing to go with a rook in CF…if he isn’t, then the old Braves model is as over as Mark Redman. That model filled holes with solid ML players, not potential a year, or two, or three, away.

It’s not that I think players such as Hernandez or Jurrjens are bad pickups, quite the contrary. But let’s not confuse restocking the farm with eyeing the World Series in 2008.

If Wren’s strategic goal is to prepare the franchise for success in the future, so be it. That’s cool. But let’s not mistake that for the model the organization once used. The Tigers have assumed that mantle.

By Shamus Thacker

December 10, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

I’ve had my gassburgers and returned, bloated, yet relaxed, nauseated, yet litigious. I should sue Krystal for putting me through this S#I+!!!

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

scoots,

absolutely agree with your 8:54 post. offensively if tex, chipper, heap, or francoeur miss any significant time, we are gonna have a serious problem scoring runs.

By McFann

December 10, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Lew. I did have fun with The Bird. He’s a great bird (most of the time!!). He likes me the best—don’t know how that got started.

Arby’s service wasn’t top notch tonight, but the food was good……when it was finally ready.

Hey, what’s with the Word-like attitude of this “post box thingy,” anyway? It’s driving me bonkers!!

By McFann

December 10, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Oh well. NIGHT ALL!!

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

well at least we dont have nine games with the red sox and the tigers this year. but heck why should we try to compete with them.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Shamus, laddy, you’re providing quite the visual for us there. Thank you. No, really….

Scoots, let me state the obvious: The Tigers are in the other league. So are the Yankees and Red Sox. Might be more pertinent to worry about teams in the NL, maybe even focusing on the NL East. After missing the playoffs two years in a row, I’d imagine Braves would be quite pleased to get back to the World Series, even if they lost to one of the AL juggernauts….

Now, moving on to other topics. I was about to throw out a couple of old reference books to make room for new ones, and I was thumbing through the Stats Inc Scouting Notebook from 1995 (they stopped printing these a few years ago, probably because so much stuff is available online these days. But these things were really solid. Anyway….)

So I’m looking through the Braves section and I start reading a few of them. Here’s part of one player profile, just as they wrote it up:

Chipper Jones

Position: SS

Opening day age: 22

1994 season: Ironically, it was a leg injury that gave Chipper Jones — the No. 1 pick in the 1990 amateur draft — the starting left-field job in 1994, and another leg injury that took it away. When Ron Gant broke his leg during the offseason, Jones became the starting left fielder. However, when Jones tore his anterior cruciate ligament in spring training and underwent knee surgery, his season came to an abrupt end.

Hitting, running & defense: Jones is a gap hitter with good speed. He averaged 31 doubles and 12 triples in his three full minor league seasons…. Despite good hands and a strong throwing arm, Jones showed an alarming propensity for errors in the minors. That’s a big reason why he might end up an outfielder or third baseman.

1995 outlook: If Jones can successfully rehabilitate his knee, there is every reason to believe that the Braves will find a way to incorporate him into their 1995 plans. He is still only 22 years old and should have a solid career, whether as an infielder or an outfielder.

By john hoar

December 10, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul-always read your remarks and appreciate them. I sure miss your optimism however. We could always count on you, no matter what, to know the Braves would come through. Hang on, they will!

By McFann

December 10, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

LEW

I know I said “good night,” and I prob’ly won’t get back to you til tomorrow, but what kind of bird do you have? We have a cockatiel (Petey Bird).

By ssiscribe

December 10, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Digging up memories on Chipper …

— Wasn’t it in a spring training game against the Yankees in 1994 when he tore up his knee? Running out an infield hit, if memory serves?

— Remember all the kids who were up at the start of 1994? Tony Tarasco, Ryan Klesko, Mike Kelly, Javy Lopez … I know, some of those guys were up in 1993. I just remember the ol’ Chop Talk cover that landed on my desk at the college newspaper office down on Decatur Street. Chipper would’ve been in there, front and center, if he hadn’t ripped up his knee. Actually, didn’t Kelly or Tarasco start because Chipper got hurt?

— Chipper should’ve been rookie of the year in 1995, hands down (I think Nomo won it for the Dodgers). I remember somebody asked Chipper after Game 6 and he said something along the lines of if he thought it was fair for him to be on a World Series winner in his first season, and Chipper’s answer (paraphrasing here) was something like I don’t know if it’s fair, but I’ll take it.

— Remember the play Chipper made behind the bag to start a double play in Game 1 (I think Game 1) in Colorado in the 1995 NLDS? That ball could’ve been a double, and could’ve won the game for the Rockies. Instead, the Braves won it. Great, great play, maybe the biggest play Chipper made his entire rookie season.

OK, I’m done tripping down memory lane. Speaking of memory lane, I realized the other day the Braves haven’t won a home World Series game since Game 6 in 1995, the clincher against the Indians. Lost all three against the Yanks at old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium in 1996; lost two at Turner Field against the Bronx Bombers in 1999.

Sigh. Sorry about that. For some reason, felt compelled to share that painful fact, for one reason or another.

One more thing: In my bullpen chatter above, I totally forgot about Resop. Wasn’t he signed when Paronto was set free? Anyway, he’s gonna be in the mix for that final spot or two, methinks. I think those first few spots are pretty locked in, unless somebody gets hurt or somebody really stinks it up in camp.

It’s nice to have depth down there, for sure. Just hope the Braves don’t burn through it like firewood.

OK, off to bed I go. Selah, denizens.

—30—

By ScottC

December 10, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

DOB, what makes you say that Dodgertown is ‘glorious’? We went there last spring and it’s a dump. The bathrooms are nasty and the Dodgerdogs were probably the worst I’ve ever had. The best part of the whole day was either when LaSorda nodded off while sitting beside the dugout, or when he tried to run us over in his golf cart after the game.

By TexasBrave

December 10, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

DOB - I hope I am not about to ask a question you have already hashed over previously. Of course if you have spoken about this I don’t expect an answer.

Is Chucky doing anything to get himself prepared for the up coming season? I remember you saying that he wasn’t doing the Lowes thing any more, but I haven’t read anything about him working on a third pitch, his mechanics or endurance. I would think at the very least he would be working on a third pitch. I would hate to be him going into spring with the same two pitches. Glavine may be able to help him but not if he hasn’t already started by spring.

He is going to have some seriously stiff competition, especially if Hampton can make a come back.

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

The Mets look to be a little less powerful taking hits to the rotation, offense and bullpen. But you can’t simply focus on the final weeks of the season either. There is a whole body of work there from last season which says they could still be good. But I think they will certainly have to work a lot harder than the previous two seasons.
The Phillies seem to have improved. If anything they have maintained their 2007 level. But I would go with slight improvement with the addition of Lidge and moving Myers back to the starting rotation.
The Braves have certainly maintained their level of play with improvement in the rotation. This should keep them in the thick of things for next year and give them the opportunity to take the division in an exciting race.
None of these three teams looks better than the NL West which will probably send a team to the World Series for the second straight year.
Things could change out West and with the Phillies and the Mets. But word is the Braves are content with what they have and if they can’t find a good stop gap they are more than willing to send out an outfield with a rookie in Left, a rookie in Center and a right fielder with less than 3 years experience. But don’t expect any World Champions in Atlanta next year or the year after. Not with those AL juggernauts on the field.

So Wren is aiming for the perennial Division winner and post season failure. I for one would love another World Series team. If anything, should the Braves make it to the World Series, it will be a David and Goliath thing and that’s fun should they win.

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

but heck why should we try to compete with them

Exactly, uga_brave.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 10, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

this is hardly blog-related, but i figured that it might interest some here. for over a year, i’ve used internet explorer as my browser, and these blogs would always take a long time to download — anywhere from 10 seconds to a full minute. i downloaded mozilla firefox the other day and have been using that as my browser, and it downloads the blog right away; 2-day old blogs might take a little longer, but only a matter of a few seconds.

By Tom

December 10, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB. I know you can’t predict 100% what’s going to happen with the bullpen, but I at least appreciate you taking a stab.

If you’re up for it, another question…how about a pick five for the bench? Aybar and Thorman are both out of options. I have to believe something’s going to give there, as in both aren’t going to make the team.

Infante is the only guy with a contract at this point, so anybody else is fair game. Thanks again for taking the time to answer a newbie’s question.

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

daybed, I was talking about foxfire just last night. It’s awesome. Someone was talking on the last blog about Safari also being much faster than IE. I can only imagine how slow that last blog must have been to load!

I’ve been meaning to ask you about your handle. What does it mean?

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, I haven’t spoken to Chuck since the last day of the season, and he’s not playing winter ball so I haven’t had much reason to call him. In answer to your question, I don’t know what he’s doing with his time this winter. Pitchers don’t generally start throwing until about Christmas, and I don’t call around to check on them individually. Not being a smartarse, just telling you the truth.

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

tennpaul,

not available, not in our best intersest, not fiscally responsible, not prudent. those are the new atlanta braves slogans.

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

uga, those slogans have been around this organization for the past four or five years.

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

dob,

think on the bright side you could be the falcons beat writer. well their redman stinks just about as much as the braves redmon.

By TexasBrave

December 10, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Fair enough - Thanks DOB

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

uga-brave: Yes. I appreciate the attitude. Truly I do. Go ahead and forfeit the World Series to the AL for a few years. Those AL juggernauts are just too much to compete with. Best bet would be to rack up a string of Division titles and hopefully, in a few years when those AL juggernauts are no more, strike and take the World Title.

John Hoar: I appreciate the it. I’m optimistic that this team will play well and challenge for the Division, if that helps. And once the season is under way I’ll probably go back into full force and cheer for it all mode. But this is the off-season and a new GM. This is the time to get all the complaining out of the way, form all the arguments, work all the angles and be well prepared for what lies ahead.
I wish I could be year round optimistic as in the past when JS was in charge. If this team surpasses my expectations, I’ll have a new found respect for Wren’s moves. But I’m not going to just hand that respect over to him because he works for the Braves. I don’t intend to be a Braves Yes Man. Wren has to prove himself before that happens.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

TenPaul and SCoots-Dudes, it is barely the middle of December here. There is time to do everything that needs doing. It’s not like the season starts tomorrow. NO one in baseball has done much of anything except the Tigers, as far as I can see. Whatever. I’m just not as upset about it as y’all are.

Now pitching. Quite honestly, I didn’t see all that much difference in the stats of those two kids you mentioned. One has a tiny bit better ERA (in the minors) and had a few more K. The other had fewer BB. Again, I say whatever. We got the one we got and there is no way you can tell me you know for a fact they could have gotten the other or not. Maybe Detroit wanted to keep the other guy and let him develop. I haven’t seen he is in their rotation this year, have you?

As for Glavine. Who, exactly do you see on the market that is better for the money? This was one of the weakest free agent classes for pitching I’ve ever seen. Add to that the fact that pitching has become outrageously expensive for anything, and I’m not sure I would have done differently. Picking up Haren or Blanton or the flavor Du Jour is all fine and well, but I haven’t seen anyone else pick any of them up either. Have you? Seems the last time I looked that Haren, Blanton, Santana, Bedard, Snell, Gorzelany and every other pitcher I’ve seen mentioned and Denizens have salivated over, are still with their original teams. No one is giving up their pitching (at least to this point) and everyone wants it. My God, the Mets are working out 45 year old Jeff Fassaro in the Mexican League. How does THAT speak to desperation?

Now what I do see with Wren’s moves to this point is that he has picked up a bit of speed with Hernandez and Anderson. He has picked up what everyone but y’all seem to view as a very good young pitcher in Jurrjens. Is not young pitching what most have been howling for? He picked up a utility man and a left hander who is great at getting out left handed hitters, which is what we needed. Mahay would be nice, but for a three year deal at $3-4 mil per? Come one. That’s way too high a price.

Do you actually think that Glavine is considered to be anything but a temporary fix for our rotation? Do you think that with Hampton’s $15 mil and Glavine’s $8 mil off the books next year, with maybe a stronger free agent market, that we will still have two pitchers over 40 in our rotation?

Look-I really don’t want to get into any more of an epic post at this time of night than I already have (at least I put spaces between paragraphs, now). Suffice it to say that if the Braves don’t win it all this year (and I don’t think they will), life will go on. I DO think we’ll have a good team and will win the division. We’re all a bunch of spoiled fans from that 14 year streak. We will never see a rotation of three future HOF er’s together again for ten years-but, then again, no one else will either. Without spending a fortune and getting All Stars for every position (which you know is NOT going to happen), you have to go with a mix like we have. You have to develop your own talent-which we are and which we have successfully done for years-and will for the foreseeable future. Be patient. I see purpose behind what Wren is doing. You would too if you weren’t just so ready to find fault-you have been ranting since the day the series ended. This is not something new for you-you’ve been very ompatient all along. You’ve told me what you would like to do, but just how does that happen? How do you know he could have done more? Do you really know all of the circumstances? Do any of us even have a clue what it takes to put these deals together? Give the guy a chance. He’s been GM for what? Two months? Barely? We will not be fielding a bad team. There will be some more fine tuning. We will have a center fielder, even if not who you want (and I’ll never speak to either of you again if the name Crisp pops up). We will have a good starting rotation-quite possibly the best in the division if not one of the best in the NL. We will have a solid bullpen. I worry more about the bench than anything else, frankly. And even it will by necessity, be improved-Orr and Woodward are gone.

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

chrisklob,

maybe the slogans have been around for the past four or five years but the results are starting to show their face.

when AOL froze payroll they also cut jobs. the scouting budget got cut, minor league instuction budget got cut. advance scouting got cut. these were things the braves really excelled in the past. gosh, at least we are not falcon fanatics, that would really be depressing.

By Lew

December 10, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

McFAnn-I have a twelve year old Quaker Parrot that I hand raised. She was thrown out of a nest of wild parrots in our front yard in St. Pete when she was still all white feathers and fluff-about three inches long. I hand fed and have had her since. From what I understand, they live about forty years. She might outlive me.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

December 10, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

ugabrave: Have to respectfully disagree with your 9:03 post. I don’t know what makes you think that the Braves’ offense could not sustain an injury or two and still be productive. Let’s take a look at a typical ‘07 lineup… I’ll even give you Diaz along with the RHP regulars:

K. Johnson .276/16/68 (.375 OBP, .457 SLG) E. Renteria .332/12/57 (.390 OBP, .470 SLG) C. Jones .337/29/102 (.425 OBP, .604 SLG) M. Teixeira .317/17/56 (.404 OBP, .615 SLG, 208 AB) B. McCann .270/18/92 (.320 OBP, .452 SLG) J. Francoeur .293/19/105 (.338 OBP, .444 SLG) A. Jones .222/26/94 (.311 OBP, .413 SLG, 572 AB) M. Diaz .338/12/45 (169 AB, .320 against RHP)

The ‘07 Braves averaged exactly 5 runs per game. That’s third-best in the N.L.. Here’s a probable ‘08 lineup:

Y. Escobar .304/3/8 (.383 OBP, .473 SLG, 112 AB) K. Johnson .276/16/68 (.375 OBP, .457 SLG) C. Jones .337/29/102 (.425 OBP, .604 SLG) M. Teixeira .317/17/56 (.404 OBP, .615 SLG, 208 AB) B. McCann .270/18/92 (.320 OBP, .452 SLG) J. Francoeur .293/19/105 (.338 OBP, .444 SLG) M. Diaz .338/12/45 (169 AB, .320 against RHP) J. Anderson? .358/0/11 (.413 OBP, .403 SLG, 67 AB)

I don’t understand why you think this lineup will be any less productive. In ‘07 Renteria, Chipper, and McCann all spent significant stints on the DL, and Teixeira didn’t join the team until the trade deadline. And they still averaged 5 runs a game. Granted, Renteria will be a loss, but Escobar may be capable of putting up comparable numbers in an every-day role. While the rookie (or veteran TBD) CF might be a soft-spot, it will be nearly impossible to match Andruw’s .222 AVG and 138 Ks. Even if all does not go well and the 5 runs/game drops to 4.5 or so, surely the improvements to the pitching staff will still be sufficient enough to provide us with the margin for another 15-20 wins. Write this down: If the Braves don’t win in ‘08, it won’t be because of the offense. But I guess we shall see. No disrespect though… Go Dawgs!

DOB: Got that Bettye LaVette CD you suggested and couldn’t be happier with it. I haven’t heard such a pure blues sound in modern music in a long, long time. The emotion in LaVette’s voice is overpowering. That’s the closest I’ve ever come to crying over an album. Truly remarkable stuff. Anyway, one good heads-up deserves another… The Whigs have finished recording their second record, and it will be released January 22. They will be playing CD Release shows on the 25th in Atlanta at the Earl, and on the 26th in Athens at the 40 watt. They will be their first shows back after the holiday lay-off, so they should have plenty of energy to sufficiently rock our socks off. Anyway, glad you escaped the NashVegas biosphere. ‘Til next time…

By chrisklob

December 10, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

uga, maybe the slogans have been around for the past four or five years but the results are starting to show their face..

I suspect you may be partially right, but what can you do? Can’t go back in time and undo what’s done. On the other hand, the Braves are still getting it done in player development. That pipeline has been filling spots on the 25 man roster for years now, and there’s no sign of that stopping any time soon.

Look at the Braves roster. It’s full of guys that came through their system. And just below are a slew of youngsters ready to prove their worth.

Long gone are the days where JS had as much cash as he needed to sign the biggest name available, or trade for him. We are what we are. Love it or leave it. That’s pretty much the bottom line.

And yes, I am grateful that I am not a Falcons fan. For a lot of reasons.

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

its not like the braves front office is doing a bad job, it’s that we are fighting an uphill battle. when you operate under our current constraints every move is critical. i think that is why wren will be very methodical in his moves. lew, i agree its only early december and no one has done much, but its just fustrating to watch.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 10, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

DOB & Denizens:

I’m making my first trip to spring training next year. Not going with buddies, not making a guy trip, etc. Going to enjoy 4 days of nothing but baseball. Anybody got any advice for me in planning? Advance ticket purchases or show up at the gate? Premium stadium or team experiences? I know I gotta take in more than the beloved Braves to soak in the entire experience. A good location as a jumping off point for games (so as not to have to hit the road before the sun comes up, or get back to the bed after midnight)? I know lots of you have done this. My wife gave the birthday present of going to spring training (read: week long kitchen pass to troll central Florida, though no doubt that she will b!tch and whine during the season as I sit before the TV every night during the regular season, as always). Any insight/advice would be appreciated, as I am in the planning stages.

On the hot topics of the day, I wish Druw the best - always liked the guy, he always busted his butt (even while swinging, recently) for the Braves. I just hope he doesn’t do anything to hurt us when we play them. He’s not worth the $$ the Bums are paying him, but, whom of Bora$$’s clients are truly worth the money he gets them? Give the jerk credit - he is the consumate salesman/bullsh!t artist.

My biggest concern for next year is not who will play center field. I think that either the youngsters we have, or Wren’s dealings, will take care of that.

My biggest concern is at 3rd. If Chipper goes down (which he has every year for the last couple), who will fill in? How will the Braves replace his offense? In a word, they can’t. Chipper is an offensive machine when healthy. If he has another injury (or two, or three) during the season, and misses 60+ games, I fear our offense will fall off. With Rent gone from the 2 hole, will Kelly and Yunel get on base? Who hits 3rd to set the table for Tesh? McCann? Frenchie? I’m worried about Hoss. Not his resolve or his toughness. His being prone to injury. I hope he’s getting himself ready for the beating of a 162 game season. God knows, we need him and his presence in the lineup, more than ever.

Sad story about Michael Vick. Gone to the pokey for 2 years. Will he still be an athlete after he returns?

Compare that to the story on LaDamian Thompson on 60 Minutes last night. Damn, what a great human being that guy is. He also happens to be one hell of an athlete. We need more LT’s, fewer thugs like Vick and Pacman.

And the bleat goes on………

By TennesseePaul

December 10, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Lew: I wouldn’t characterize it as “upset” or “p!ssed off”. Again, I think this is where the black and white really hinders the conversation. The tone and mood is missing. The word I would use is “disappointed”.

Who, exactly do you see on the market that is better for the money
No one. I brought this up a long time ago at the beginning of the offseason when you are arguing for saving those extra millions to acquire a new pitcher and I was saying there aren’t any on the free agent market. It would require a trade. The type of trade I was hoping for would have returned a major league proven young starter under control for a few years, similar to Haren, though it didn’t have to be him. It all goes back to the trades Wren has made. I’m glad he got some prospects with press clippings and I hope they turn out as well as they are thought to be, but I would have rather acquired a more proven commodity to fit into the rotation so as to carry over through next off-season’s turn over.

Suffice it to say that if the Braves don’t win it all this year (and I don’t think they will), life will go on. I DO think we’ll have a good team and will win the division
Exactly what I’ve been saying but for some reason it isn’t taken well. I might disagree with the certainty of the Division title, but I certainly agree that they should be in the running for it. I’ve been saying I think it’ll be a close race and that I hope they win it.

Again, I say whatever. We got the one we got and there is no way you can tell me you know for a fact they could have gotten the other or not.
Actually this was an exercise in restraint. Both those guys had high rankings. Pitcher A was ranked as high as 4th best overall prospect in his organization, and best pitching prospect in his organization. When he came up, he had a great showing and was thought to be on his path to something wonderful. It didn’t turn out that way. His name was Kyle Davies.
I hope Jair can turn out better, but it isn’t a guarantee. Cox and Leyland can say all they want about a guy. Baseball America can rank him where ever they please. But it doesn’t mean he’ll turn out the way everyone thinks. This is why I was hoping for a more established pitcher.

I haven’t seen anyone else pick any of them up either. Have you?
Perhaps because they were all hoping to grab Renteria and some prospects…
Ha! I couldn’t resist.

By uga-brave

December 10, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

chrisklob,

i agree you cant live in the past. those days are gone, i think liberty will be better owners, cant be worse then aol. i guess we’ll have to see how the cards are played. i will be real interested to see how player development continues without dayton moore. he seemed to have a real good eye for talent.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, pitcher B is Jair Jurjjens. Both those sets of stats were the cumulative totals prior to their first major league debut.

By chrisklob

December 11, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

Scalp’em, congrats on your upcoming trip to ST. It’s a blast. I haven’t been in a couple of years but I used to go every season. I’m planning on making the trip again this spring.

The Braves train at Disney, as you probably know. Most of the games, at least early in ST, are played during the day so there aren’t that many times when you’ll be getting back to your hotel late.

Within a very short drive of Braves ST site you’ll find the Astros, Indians and Tigers. All are within 30 or 45 minutes of Kissimmee. Several hours east you’ll find the Nationals, Dodgers and Mets. To the west you’ll find the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, Reds and Pirates. One thing you’ll discover is that most ST sites are played at minor league facilities, or in the case of Houston, at college facilities. They are much, much more intimate than a regular major league ball park. I think Cracker Jack field (Braves ST home) has about 12,000 seats and it’s one of the biggest ST facilities that I’ve ever been to although I’ve never been to Yankees or Red Sox camp before.

Here are a couple of links to help you with your trip:

[Spring Training Online}(http://www.springtrainingonline.com/) Spring Training Magazine

Buying tickets in advance is an option. But it does limit you if you change your mind and decide to go elsewhere.

Good luck!

By uga-brave

December 11, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

tennpaul,

had a hunch that it was davies and jurjjens that you were talking about. prospects are just that, you really never know what your gonna get. i agree with your opinion on a proven commodity. you can never have too much proven pitching.

really the X factor is hampton. if he comes back and makes a major contribution all our worries are moot. thats a big IF i know but stranger things have happened.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this

uga: That’s true. If Hampton can actually come back and be all the KC thought he’d be last season, we’ll be in a great position. But that’s not too likely.

By Lew

December 11, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this

TenPaul-What will be will be. I think the young pitchers will be fine. Like we discussed last night-who is going to pan out and who will flame out. You kjust never know.

Scalp Em-It depends on who you want to see the Braves play. Forget the Yankees. If you haven’t gotten your ticket by standing in line in Orlando the day they go on sale, you don’t stand a chance. Someone like the Rays or Marlins, you might make it on game day OK. Call down to the Disney Wide World of Sports Box office and they can tell you more specifically. I’ll be there for the first game against UGA. I’ll even take my Georgia Hat with me.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 11, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this

In all honesty, I think the Braves really want to be deep in pitching this year, and not just for the obvious reasons but because they have three starters who have had medical issues in the past. That in combination with age really means the Braves have to be really lucky in all this.

Now, a different perspective of Mike Hampton. Do you folks realize the possibility of Mike coming back and having a great season? Then being only 35 he could possible sign a 3 year deal with someone else. That would be a real kick in the pants wouldn’t it?

I’m hoping he makes it as the comeback player of the year, not likely I know but not improbable. Better him than Andruw.

How many people want to bet the Marlins lose 100 games this year?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 11, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

Gil , I’ll take that bet.

The Braves have taken the approach of loading up with eight or nine capable starters headed into spring training.

It’s a very smart thing to do cosidering the mystery that Hampton is , then take into account the age of Smoltz and Glavine , having all the quality depth ensures that the Braves have the ability to withstand the obvious rigors of the 162 game marathon season.

By GM Wren Is The Final Frontier

December 11, 2007 3:46 AM | Link to this

MC Ren has changed the lyrics to Final Frontier in honor of GM Wren.

Hey, hey Wren, hey check this out loc, hey man I’ve been hearing a gang of denizens, talking a whole lot of unnecessary bullish man, what if one of ‘em trick a@@ GMS come at you the wrong way loc’?

I’ll beat Minaya’s a@@ on the trick just for the hell of it, take away Glavine, there’s no tell of it,

I don’t give a damn I’ll beat Boras like he’s stole somethin’, and then I’ll let Cashman know where Wren is comin from,

I’m from Chopton, everybody’s on the wagon, I’m looking for Epsteins, that’s who I’m taggin’,

Never asking questions I just go right in and do it, And if you’re thinkin that you can mess with Wren, you Beanes already blew it,

Like I said before, fools want up in my shoes, But after messin’ with me, they sing the blues,

Me and Bobby Cox dropping bombs like a P2, So you should get another pitcher, or we beat you

GM Wren don’t take no lip, Cause GM Wren ain’t a GM that you wanna try and mess with,

Kick Minaya’s little a$$ in my spare time, to keep myself occupied when we’re not winning one mo’ time,

Making them moves that ya love to hear, cause GM Wren is the final frontier

Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Ya mess with Wren, ya gotta mess with number ten

Now throw your hands in the air and let me see ya slap Peter Angelos, Start the violence goin on through an GM Wren show,

I don’t give a Damn if bloggers is fightin in the crowd, I only got one concern, that’s my team winning 99,

I’m standing on the stage I got my bravos to my right, I bust a couple of moves, then jump in the crowd and get with the fight,

I hit Minaya off in the head with a chair, The reason for that, Minaya was just standin there,

Then Bobby Cox will grab the gauge - just in case Minaya tempts my rage; he’ll be the victim on the front page,

Minaya’s on his way to the morgue - to kick it with the rest of them GMs the NL gave free room and board,

So when ya at my show, Let me see ya throw your hands up in the air and slap Peter Angelos,

Cause that’s the only noise I wanna hear, ‘cause GM Wren is the final frontier

Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Ya mess with Wren, ya gotta mess with number ten

The final frontier makes Minaya wonder, why he do a division title and then go up under,

Try to copy Wren but Wren just can’t be duplicated, Metropolitans makin wussy teams so I come in and fade their dreams,

Slap GMs if they talk back, Put my foot so deep in their a$$, they have a hole and not a crack,

The talk just makes this GM laugh, cause Minaya be comin up to me , Askin why I left a Nike up in that a$$,

I tell ‘em I had to do it, was part of the plan, to try to stop the fools making fun of langerhans,

Putting wack teams in the make, choking like Mets after all star breaks,

Try to go World Series but then they hit the street, That’s the reason Minaya still hoping Alou has two feet,

Thinkin they can diss Wren’s flow, but singin and dancin, don’t go with the format that I be usin in my show,

It’s just hardcore Bravos actin crazy on the stage, watching Soriano close yo and spittin on Peter Angelos,

Doin’ that stuff that ya love to hear, ‘cause GM Wren is the final frontier

Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Who is it? The general manager that they call Wren, Ya mess with Wren, ya gotta mess with number ten

By daveGT

December 11, 2007 4:40 AM | Link to this

The Braves getting Mike Hampton has turned out to be one of the worst trades in Atlanta Braves history. Before getting all defensive on behalf of Mr. Hampton, I said the trade was only one of the worst, not the absolute worst. I’m sure that could be debated from here ‘till next Christmas with no definite answer.

By wjones

December 11, 2007 6:24 AM | Link to this

TexasBrave, I saw your question from last night regarding Chuck James. I had posted this several days ago, in a much more detailed post, but in an interview from the latest Chop Talk magazine, Chuck said he is resting his arm due to a small tear in his rotator cuff. He said it was about healed, and he was to begin rehabbing it soon. The trainers were to clear him before he began throwing again, but he didn’t see a problem with being able to start when they did their “Camp Leo” thing. He had a lot of interesting things to say in that article; it would be worth it to pick up a copy if you get the opportunity.

By ncscoots

December 11, 2007 6:48 AM | Link to this

DOB, re your 9:49, I wasn’t saying the Braves should worry about the Tigers, or any other team. I was remarking that the Tigers are now utilizing the same model that the Braves used when they were flush: plug a hole with a solid ML contributor, while being more concerned with value over cost.

By Michael in Brooklyn

December 11, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this

Seriously, dude? Stuart Scott is your problem?

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

daveGT

Just a couple of points on your contention that the Mike Hampton trade was one of the worse in Braves history. I will try not to be defensive.

First off, he was traded in November of 2002 for Tim Spooneybarger and Ryan Baker. Baker NEVER played a major league game, and Spooneybarger only played in 33 games in relief the following year, and has not returned to the majors since (Baseball Almanac is my source on all stats).

So, the Braves truly did not give up much get him in the way of players.

Now, salary wise, that is a different story. The Braves had other teams pay a chunk of his salary, so that pro-rated, it comes out to be under 9 million per season average. In today’s dollars, that is not significant, although it is a lot for what we have gotten from him.

While it is impossible to say how much, since he has not played at all the past two seasons, insurance has picked up a portion of that salary. So, you can’t truly make any statement like “he costs us $15 million per year we could have paid toward another player” cause it would simply not be accurate.

And, by the way, for the ‘03 thru ‘05 seasons his W-L record and ERA have been 32-20, 3.96.

Seasonal numbers are such:
‘03, 14-8 w/ 3.84 ERA, in 190 innings. ‘04, 13-9 w/ 4.28 ERA, in 172 innings. ‘05, 5-3 w/ 3.50 ERA, in 69 innings.

So, it could be argued that when not hurt, he has been an effective starter, probably worth approximately what he was being paid.

So, while it is popular to rail on Mike Hampton and claim that the trade is “maybe” the worst in Atlanta Braves history, it is certainly not necessarily the reason the Braves have not been successful in the past few seasons.

And please, let’s not hear any of the talk about him not trying hard or being injured is his fault or anything like that.

If we assume that all teams willhave injuries, which is true, then Mike Hampton has been the “unlucky” one for the Braves these past 3+ seasons.

Now, if you want to say you don’t like Mike Hampton, cause he should just retire and give up that salary so we can use it to get another player, then I am sure you would do the same, if hurt on the job. You would walk away from your pay and apologize to your company for getting hurt. Yeah, right. I am sure you weren’t going to say that.

Anybody that would say that would truly identify with the moniker of “your and idiot”, the well worn and well traveled designation on this blog.

Hope that helps a bit daveGT.

By mhawkins

December 11, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

DOB

I’m an avid reader, but seldom post. However, I do have a question if you care to address it. I heard, and this may not be the case, that you were on the committee that selected the internet writers for nomination into the BBWAA. A bit of a brouhaha has since erupted on the internet about Rob Neyer and Keith Law’s rejection. I’m a huge Neyer fan, but could take or leave Law (on the other hand, I despise Buster Olney but I don’t begrudge him admittance to his own professional organization). Do you have any comment on their cases? I know the party line is that they don’t need credentials since they don’t attend so many games per year. However, hasn’t the BBWAA grown into a different beast, now that it is primary arbiter of both the post-season awards balloting and the Hall of Fame? Shouldn’t knowledgeable professionals, especially well established writers such as Neyer be a accepted among their peers? Along those same lines what about the people at Baseball Prospectus and the Hardball Times? Thanks, I know this is a prickly subject.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 11, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

daveGT: The Braves getting Mike Hampton has turned out to be one of the worst trades in Atlanta Braves history. Before getting all defensive on behalf of Mr. Hampton, I said the trade was only one of the worst, not the absolute worst. I’m sure that could be debated from here ‘till next Christmas with no definite answer.

i’m not too familiar with the atlanta braves before the ’90s, but i would think that it is THE worst trade in atlanta braves history. what trades, since 1966, could be judged worse? on the one hand, we gave up very little (tim spooneybarger and ryan baker, a minor league pitcher), so we’re not hurting too much there as far as who we lost; it’s not like we lost a scott kazmir in return for a victor zambrano. on the other hand, it’s obvious what we’re losing — millions and millions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere and a product with very little return on its investment. in mike’s and the braves’ defense, it’s not like they could’ve seen this coming (can’t quite say the same about the kazmir-zambrano trade — kazmir had strong minor league numbers).

can anyone think of other atlanta braves trades have been bad for our team? losing adam wainwright in the trade for j.d. drew wasn’t too great, and time will tell on wilson betemit.

chrisklob — it’s just a twist on my actual name.

By eware

December 11, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

I had a dream last night that Chuck James pitched 9 full innings. It was awesome.

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

ncscoots

I think it was Braveheart a couple of days ago that outlined the Braves spending versus the attendance over the past 15 years. I think there was a strong correlation that basically said that when we supported the team better, their ownership was more apt to spend on the team. I am not sure how scientific his numbers are, but it makes some sense, that why should a team dump more salary into the team if it doesn’t translate into more buttz in the seats.

Now, some might argue the “Chicken and the Egg” thing, with which came first. I don’t know. Somebody a lot smarter than me can figure that one out.

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

scoots One last thing to think on. On XM in recent weeks, the conversation has come around to mandatory salary floors for teams. It seems that every team gets a set amount each year in revenue sharing, and I think the number was around 60 million.

So, a team with a 20 million dollar salary is pocketing 40 million dollars (I am not certain of these numbers, nor do I know where to go to verify them) BEFORE they put one single butt in the seats. Now, that isn’t fair to the fans of those markets (Miami, Pittsburg, Minnesota comes to mind).

I would like to see some definitive report on which teams truly spend the most per fan AFTER the revenue sharing dollars.

Now, that would be telling.

By ncscoots

December 11, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Even if…runs/game drops to 4.5 or so, surely the improvements to the pitching staff will still be sufficient

Not in the current universe. That’s 700 runs for the season, and there are few, if any, pitching staffs left in MLB that could overcome that.

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Daybed Don’t know if I would agree, purely on the money issue. Agreed that we didn’t give up much for MH.

As for salary, if we roughly assume we are paying him 8-9 million per season, pro-rated, then we can make some conclusions.

Let’s say he was worth it for the first two full seasons (he was hurt for part of 2004). 2005 is hard to figure, as he was going along great before the injury bug bit.

Now, for 2006 and 2007, lets assume we got half of his salary back from insurance. Did we get half of the 8-9 million we accounted for paying him, or half of the 15 million ACTUAL salary we owed him for that specific year. I personally bet it was the latter.

If that is the case, then maybe someone could argue that it might be one of the BEST trades we have ever made. Now, granted, I don’t believe that myself, but it is interesting to ponder……

By Gil's Mechanic

December 11, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe That question is so easy Gil said I could answer it for him. That would be Brook Jacoby and Brett Butler to Cleveland for Len Barker.

By Elmer

December 11, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

We object to that remark that AJ lacks motivation. He plays hard and every day.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

i dont know much about the braves before the 90s either (to young) but didnt we trade away brett butler for next to nothing, and he turned out to be a pretty good leadoff hitter?

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Elmer Maybe you are confusing dedication to motivation?

By Wayne in Utah

December 11, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Gil: Your mechanic is as smart as my carpenter, hit the nail on the head!

By wjones

December 11, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Yes, I think any Braves fan from the time they were in Atlanta, or even since the late 70’s/early 80’s, will agree almost to a person that the Len Barker trade set us back for 8 years. It took us from being a division contender to a last place team almost instantly. It took away Butler, who had become our greatest leadoff guy since Garr (and maybe better than Garr)and who, along with Murphy, gave us two center fielders in the OF at the same time. It took away Jacoby, a promising third baseman, who went on to several very productive years in the AL, and who would have been able to step in at 3B when Horner became a 1B and hold down a spot that became a problem spot from 1985 until 1991 (the Pendleton acq). Barker had lost almost all of his effectiveness by then, and for someone with his arm speed, I never saw a slower delivery to home plate in my life! This trade was made to push the Braves over the Dodgers in the division race, to get us another arm, and Butler was to be the player to be named later, because the Braves still needed him in the race. Ted Turner told Butler, clearly in violation of ML rules, that he was indeed the player out of loyalty to him, and the league allowed him to play the remainder of the season with the team. How would you like to be playing under those conditions? Add to that we had just lost Horner for the year with a broken wrist, in the middle of perhaps his greatest season, and at the same time we lost Chambliss for a month with a cracked rib muscle (he never swung the bat as well after he came back), and we went from the team with the best record in MLB to a second place team, not to see or smell first place again for 8 years. I can’t think of any trade, and we have made some stinkers through the years, that was as destructive as that one was.

By Braveheart

December 11, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Elmer I agree. Andruw always did play hard all day, every day. There is no doubt about that in my mind. I do question how motivated he was to become the absolute best that he could be when he was off the field but once the ump said play ball, Andruw ran out there everyday even when he was hurting bad with with a smile on his face and played his tail off.

By MGL

December 11, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Wayne - I agree with your 9:07 and was about to post the same thought. I would guess that it would be the latter also. This means the actual loss fromm Hampton was not all that bad.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, I think that’s a fair assessment in your 9:54 post.

By McFann

December 11, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Lew

That must’ve been fun raising your own bird. We just bought ours at a bird/fish shop. He’s a nut-bird, too. They’re such great pets.

CharlieAlphaBravo,

Regarding your 11:42 post, McCann did not go on the DL in ‘07. In fact, he started 130 games. He suffered some minor injuries, but he was never DL’d.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

wjones that is a sad sad story. seriously. the way you tell it is just tragic. im glad i wasnt old enough to experience it then.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Michael in Brooklyn: Seriously, dude? Yes? (in keeping with the question-mark mandate)

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

CharlieAlphaBravo: Glad you liked that Betty L CD (with Patterson Hood and Co. as backing band). It’s some good Muscle Shoals-sounding stuff, for sure.

Can’t wait to hear that new Whigs CD, and I’m gonna try to get to that show. Their last album was one of my favorites of the year (I think it came out last year; at least that’s when I bought it).

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones was and still is the absolute best defensive player the Braves have ever seen in CF.

It’s his knuckle headed refusal to listen to Terry Pendleton that is inexcusable. Trying to pull everything to left field , not respecting the pitcher , hurting the offense and underachieving with the bat. Those are the things that I as a fan cannot accept.

I wish him well in L.A. playing for the Dodgers(except when he plays the Braves) and I think that Andruw is already a Hall of Fame caliber player.

By ssiscribe

December 11, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens. Another beautiful day here on the southern rim of the capital city. Another cigar at the ready as I take a break from duty to scan the esteemed Braves/MIB on this fine morning:

— Wjones: Spot-on with your assessment of the Barker trade. Remember, the Braves led the West by 6 1/2 games in mid-August 1983, after Bob Watson’s ninth-inning homer off Steve Howe of the Dodgers gave the Braves a walk-off victory on a Saturday night at old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium.

It all fell apart from there, and the trade was a panic move by Ted, plain and simple. L.A. went and got, I believe, Rick Honeycutt from Texas, and Ted thought he had to counter. It cost the Braves Butler, Jacoby (a two-time All-Star once he got to Cleveland) and promising pitcher Rick Behenna, who would blow out his arm (rotator cuff?) and didn’t pan out but who had good stuff and could’ve been a decent big-league pitcher.

Yeah, that trade was really bad. You bring up a good point about the black hole at third base. Remember the Braves had Oberkfell and Nettles there at one time? Ron Gant went over there in 1989 and was so bad, he was sent to lower Single-A to learn how to play the outfield (that did work out well, though). Jim Presley? Man, Jacoby would’ve been a nice fixture over there after Horner moved to first, indeed. And Butler and Murph together in the outfield would’ve made the team better, certainly.

Granted, the Braves didn’t have much in the way of pitching then (Zane Smith, David Palmer, Doyle Alexander, Rick Mahler, Charlie Puleo, Pascual Perez, etc., are a few of the older names that come to mind, along with a very young Glavine and Smoltz starting in the late 1980s). But still, Butler and Jacoby in the lineup every day may have kept the Braves in fourth in the West, instead of sixth.

More importantly, the franchise just seemed to steer south after the trade. The crumble in 1983. The team never was in the race in 1984. Torre got fired. Eddie Haas got hired and was in over his head from day one in 1985, as that team totally caved in and plunged to the bottom of the NL West.

I’ve long bemoaned the Wainwright trade for personal reasons, but that aside, Drew was healthy in 2004 and Marrero played well, too. Certainly AW would be great pitching in the third spot in the rotation, and a top three of Hudson, Wainwright and Jurrjens in 2009 would’ve looked just fine.

But as far as bad deals for the Braves, nothing — and I mean nothing — can top the Barker Debacle.

—30—

By Art

December 11, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

Well the braves have made one trade with the Tigers why not a second one. Matt Diaz and a minor leaguer to the Tigers for Brandon Inge and let Inge play left field. Then you could use the rookies in centerfield.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Art inge has potential. he hit 27 homers in ‘06, but last year was pretty bad for him. he was worse at the plate than andruw jones. i dont think we should give up diaz for that.

now, if we could get jason bay, or alex rios to play left field, THAT would be good.

By Braveheart

December 11, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Wayne, there was nothing scientific about the analysis I was talking about the other day about attendance and salary. It just seems beyond coincidence that spikes and decreases in attendance are usually followed by spikes and decreases in payroll for the team.

Well, anyways, since Shaun is bashing Murray Chass a bit too much, here is an article from over a decade ago written by Mr. Chass about how the Justice/Grissom/Lofton trade was made because the Braves were looking at the bottomline.

Also, I think people should read that Lebatard article DOB was talking about yesterday.

That article by Lebatard speaks to alot of what is true here in Atlanta on just a much different scale.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

i love this time of of year. im sitting here with some hot coffee in a big braves mug my in-laws gave me for my birthday, which was friday. im anxiously awaiting my new 5-string fender deluxe jazz bass i got for myself as a birthday present, and watching a music video of one of my favorite songs from the man in black: delia’s gone. all that while enjoying talking braves baseball and the company of the denizens on this wonderful braves/MIB blog. i really enjoy the time i spend here. thanks to y’all.

i also really love to give and receive presents this time of year. now if wren would get me a slugging outfielder or a #1 starter for christmas, that would be wonderful! :-)

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 11, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Gil’s Mechanic — as i said, i’m not too familiar with the braves pre-90s, and i wasn’t aware of this trade. yeah, that does look like a pretty bad trade on our end, though it looks like it wasn’t too bad of a trade at the time — trading two young players (butler just finished his 3rd season with atlanta, and it looks like jacoby was still a prospect) for a veteran pitcher who had posted a sub-4 era in the AL both of the two previous years, even if he wasn’t having a great year when he was traded (8-13 in 24 starts, 5.11 era). evaluating the trade later, though, does make it seem pretty poor — we gave up two players who turned out to be very solid for a guy that was mediocre at best in atlanta (at least that’s what the stats tell me).

and after thinking about it, i don’t know that i would say that the hampton trade is the worst in atlanta braves history. at the time, it didn’t look bad — we gave up virtually nothing in exchange for a former 20-game winner/cy young runner up pitcher whose high era and diminishing W-L record could have been partly attributed to the fact that he was pitching in colorado. he was seemingly durable — he pitched 200+ innings 5 of the previous 6 seasons.

he had a lousy 2002 season in which mostly every stat got worse: he went 7-15 (14-13 in 2001), 30 starts (32 in 2001), 178 IP (203 in 2001), 91 BB (85 in 2001), 74 K (122 in 2001), and a 6.15 era (5.41 in 2001). his total hits and runs given up actually went down a little, but that margin gets canceled out because his total IP was so much lower. HOWEVER, one should keep in mind that this was 2003, back when the braves still had Leo Mazzone and a reputation for having pitchers come in and improve — john burkett, chris hammond, denny neagle, and later russ ortiz and jaret wright. why wouldn’t atlanta be able to take hampton out of the hitter-friendly colorado and have him improve?

Wayne in Utah — you bring up a good point that he was worth it for the first two seasons, along with 2005 when he was one of the best pitchers in MLB when he went down. so, the trade had at least some value, but in terms of the last two seasons, has really hurt us because we probably could’ve used that $8-9 million to get another starter, closer, re-sign furcal and others that left. but, like i said, there’s no way the braves could have seen the injuries coming.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

December 11, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Mcfann: You’re right, man. Made a bit of a typo. He was only out for a few games, but many speculated that his mediocre performance in the middle of the season was caused by that second knock to his glove hand. He never went to the DL, but he was likely playing hurt for a big part of the season. Oh well, if I can spit out all that info and only make one mistake, I’ll take it. Figure I’m still batting about .995… I should be ashamed of myself though, making an error like that about a guy I went to high school with… Duluth Wildcats represent!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 11, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

wjones Thanks for adding the details.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Art, only problem with your idea is, Inge is owed $19 mill over the next three seasons. If you get him, you block Brandon Jones and the chance of having a potential future star (B. Jones) playing left field while making about $1.5 mill over that same span, which allows you to spend that extra $17-18 mill in other places.

That’s how a team that doesn’t have a $130 mill payroll (Detroit) or much higher (Boston, Yankees) has to do things to compete, make sure you blend in good young players with the high-priced veterans. McCann will soon be making bigger money, and so might Francoeur if he gets an extension. You have to save bucks where you can, and LF, 2B and SS are a few places the Braves might be able to save money while still getting solid production.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

December 11, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

I’ve been cruising some other local newspaper baseball blogs, and I’ve noticed that almost none of them have writers that actually read the comments and respond to questions. Kudos, DOB, for being a cut above.

By Roman Gal

December 11, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Well, with all this talk about attendance, I have some good news.

My roommate (who is from Spain) doesn’t understand anything about baseball. In fact, she has always joked about my incessant watching of baseball. A couple of weeks ago, we were doing some physics work and there were some problems about baseball and she asked me some good questions. Anyways, long story short…she is very interested (as are some other people from other parts of the world) in going to a game. So we will be going to a few Braves games in Atlanta this upcoming season.

I just thought I would share a success story (it’s kinda like finding religion. Haha.)

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

By the way, it’s been out for quite a while now, but anyone who hasn’t seen movie “28 Weeks Later” should rent it. Especially if you saw the first one, “28 Days Later,” but even if you didn’t you’ll dig it, provided you like to be scared and on the edge of your seat for a couple hours or so.

Also rented a solid mob movie that was under the radar and not in theatres for long, “Brooklyn Rules,” with Alec Baldwin, Scott Caan (James’ son) and the dude that plays Turtle on Entourage. Oh, and Freddie Prinze’s kid.

Baldwin can really, really play a bada$$ mob buy (see, “The Cooler”). That’s amazing for a guy I so identify was Donaghy on 30 Rock now, amazing that he can still pull off the tough-guy thing in the movies and be very convincing.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 11, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Braveheart Yes, what Lebatard has to say is true to a certain degree but making money was never one of the tenets for owning a sport’s franchise. A better investment would be an old fashion savings account. However, when you habitually put a bad product out, it is difficult to maintain a loyal customer base.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 11, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

CharlieAlphaBravo And that is why the blog gets over a 1000 post on a regular basis, people like to know they are not just send letters to Santa that will end up in the undeliverable mail file. I can hardly imagine the number of actual blog hits they get.

By AdirondackDave

December 11, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Wayne - Great thought.. I too would love to see both revenue sharing figures for each club and after-revenue sharing payroll spending. Not holding my breath though. My hunch is that clubs tend to fog up these numbers in various ways. Just like the increase in franchise value gets glossed over during profit and loss discussions until a club actually gets sold. Maybe I’m overly skeptical… but probably not.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Lew: What will be will be. I think the young pitchers will be fine. Like we discussed last night-who is going to pan out and who will flame out. You kjust never know

Yes. Que Sera Sera. This is why it is disappointing. It had the potential to be better. The potential to develop into an NL juggernaut. Que Sera Sera.
If Hampton comes back healthy and produces the out look changes dramatically.
If All the prospects materialize the out look changes dramatically.
If a quality CF stop gap can be had without trading our best young pitcher with MLB experience (James) the outlook changes dramatically.

It should make for a fun season, assuming everyone is healthy. Even if this team was stacked like the Tigers it would suck to watch the season turn into a mix of crutches and call ups.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

This is probably old news by now, but I just finally had the chance to watch the Mike Hampton video on Youtube. And I had no idea what to expect, assuming that when people said Hampton “looked great,” that meant that he wasn’t crumpling down in pain after very pitch or throwing 75 mph fastballs down the middle.

But, he really did look great. 90mph+ fastballs, curve and sinker were sharp. He had almost every single guy guessing. And, unlike I imagined, the injury seemed to be sustained from him trying to snag a comebacker, rather than just pulling up lame.

Overall, I was really impressed. If we get the same guy that was out there that night for 5 to 6 innings a game, we’re going to have a killer rotation. If you haven’t seen the video, definitely watch it.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Roman Gal theres nothing i love more than spreading the gospel of braves baseball to people.

my sister and her family live in Germany. as soon as my nephew was old enough (almost three) i bought him a little tee ball set and started playing in the yard with him when he came to visit. also, i sit him in my lap whenever there is a braves game on and talk to him about whats going on. he loves to hit the ball and he loves to watch the games with his uncle david. next time he comes to visit during the summer, were taking a trip to atlanta to see a game. i cant wait.

By Anders

December 11, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

DOB Couldn’t agree more on Alec Baldwin. Incredible comedic timing and a real bad a$$ actor when he needs to be. Glenn Gary Glenn Ross comes to mind, The Departed just to name a couple.

He’s really getting hosed by the Ex but I guess it serves him right for hosting the Clintons out at his Hamptons place all those years ago.

By Terry Jerden

December 11, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

I keep reading where the trade for Mike Hampton was the worst trade ever by the Braves. That simply is not true. It has not worked out the way the Braves or Mike Hampton would have liked but it really wasn’t that bad of a trade.

The Braves traded Tim Spoonyburger (not sure about spelling) a marginal relief pitcher at best and assumed Hampton’s salary. In other words it was a salary dump by Colorado via Florida.

All the Braves lost was the salary paid to Hampton and a portion of that was paid by the Rockies. Insurance paid another portion of the salary while he was disabled. In return for the salary the Braves actually paid Hampton they received two seasons in which he won 13 and 14 games.

The trade would have been better if Hampton was healthy and pitched like he was capable of, but it wasn ‘t a bad trade. Who knows, maybe we will get something out of him this year.

By McFann

December 11, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

CharlieAlphaBravo:

Hey, no problem. Heck, I once said he only caught 12% of base-stealers when it should have been 12%. Just wanted to let people know that he wasn’t DL’d. I wasn’t mad or anything.

You went to high school together? Awesome! Just out of curiosity, what were his best and worst subjects?

By Roman Gal

December 11, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

DAP Very cute story. That makes me want to take some of my cousins and nephews to games. I’m very excited but it is going to be interesting taking a bunch of foreign people who don’t understand much about baseball.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

does anybody know of a johnny cash release that has all of the american recordings albums?

By Lew

December 11, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Still don’t think juggernaut comes without a $110-120 million payroll. Sorry, but I just don’t see how it could happen otherwise. All other Juggernauts are in the $125 mil and upward range. And THAT’S the way it is.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

DAP, I’m pretty certain they haven’t put out a set of all the American Recordings albums. Gotta buy them separately. Well worth the price, if you’re a big fan.

By Jim

December 11, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Worst trades: 1. the infamous Barker for Butler & Jacoby

1. Bobby Thomson for Johnny Antonelli. Thomson broke his ankle in spring training of 1954 (hastening the arrival of Hank Aaron to the major leagues), and was never much of a factor afterwards. Antonelli would have won the Cy Young award, if there were one, in 1954 as he lead the Giants to the pennant and the sweep of the Indians in the series. The only thing that saved this trade from greater infamy was the fact that the Braves wanted to trade the older Spahn, but the Giants insisted on the younger Antonelli. Add Antonelli to a four man rotation that included Spahn, Burdett, and Buhl and there would be some more banners flying over Turner field today.

2. Gary Gentry for Felix Milan — there were some other marginal players involved, but the Braves were looking for an ace and got pitcher who suffered a career shortening injury a couple of months later.

3. Parret and junk? for Murphy and Greene. (a 2 part trade that came back to haunt us particularly in Oct. 0f 1993).

4. Lockhart and Tucker for Dye (part of a quick sequence of trades that cost us Grissom as well and I think we got a relief pitcher back too)

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 11, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

charliealphabravo — amen to your sentiment about DOB. i wonder how many other baseball writers in the country do what dave does to the extent that he does it.

and yeah, alec baldwin is a great actor. yeah, he can play the bada$$ very well…has anyone seen “outside providence,” the 1999 farrelly brothers movie? i haven’t seen it but it looks like he’d be a tough guy in that one too.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Saltywood, he did look good in that video. And the injury occurred when he slipped on a wet spot at the front of the mound while trying to field a ball hit back toward the mound.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

DAP, by the way, just finished watching the DVD from the expanded San Quentin Cash concert set that came out earlier this year. Phenomenal stuff. It’s a 60-minute British documentary that aired across the pond, with intense concert footage interspersed with information about the prison and with prisoners interviewed about the show and about Cash.

The CD itself was expanded to two discs, with all the “warmup” bands (including Carl Perkins and the Carter Family) and additional Cash performances added, so the entire show is now there instead of just the original 10-song Cash release.

Great stuff, again a must-have for big fans of The Man in Black.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

DOB Any word on his recovery? I know you mentioned he wasn’t going to pitch again in the Fall/Winter league…but it was still only considered a mild strain, right? Plus, he pitched to a batter after that, so I’m hoping it couldn’t have been that bad.

Also, how about those uniforms they have on? I guess I’ve never seen a Mexican League uni before…but Hampton looked sweet in it. I love the MONSTROUS Tecate logo on the back. Although, the moonsuit material they appeared to be made out of looks like it might not be the most comfortable thing in the world.

By Jake C.

December 11, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Have you had a chance to check out the recent Merle Haggard box set? I believe it is called The Original Outlaw.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

thanx DOB. i wouldnt say im a big fan, yet. the more i learn about him and listen to him the more i really appreciate and enjoy his stuff. im thinking maybe it takes some maturity to fully appreciate cash. (im still pretty young)

i have a couple of his american recordings albums, but i want to get the later ones, with hurt, personal jesus, god’s gonna cut you down and stuff like that. hes got to be one of the fascinating artists ever.

By DonCoburleone

December 11, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

DOB I assume that Escobar is an upgrade defensively over Renteria at SS, but how much of an upgrade? I haven’t heard anyone go ga-ga over Yuni’s defense (scouts I mean), but have heard people use the word “solid”. Do you have any kind of scouting report on his defense or just give me your opinion on how much better he is than Renteria?

By Anders

December 11, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB Any late breaking scuttlebutt on the soon to be released Mitchell report? Any angst among the players? Any leaks at all? Seems awful quiet considering the list of sinners is due out any moment. I know everyone is playing it down, but I’m sure all the major media outlets are poised to pounce and get the juciest names out first. No?

By Lew

December 11, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Jim-Let’s not forget the ever infamous Phillies/Cardinals trade of Rick Wise for Steve Carlton-the year after Carlton had won 20 games for the first time. Wise was a fair, but older pitcher who had a no hitter to his credit, while Carlton was a budding HOFer, who went on to win over 300 games and three Cy Young Awards. I guess it balanced the slate for the Cardinals, who got future HOFer and base stealing champ Lou Brock in return for Ernie Broglio-another of MLB’s worst ever trades.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

DonC, Yunel has a far better arm and better range than Renteria at this stage of Edgar’s career (actually, better arm than he ever had). Just needs to focus and make all the routine plays that Renteria’s so good at making.

Escobar might have the second-strongest arm among NL shortstops, behind Furcal. It’s that strong.

He’s well-above-average defensively, right now, and should get better. I’d say, without closely examining it, that he’s borderline top-5 defensive shortstop in the NL.

By AZBravoFan

December 11, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Jim- How about Boone and Klesko for Quilvio Veras, Reggie Sanders, and Wally Joyner? If we had just been patient and waited for Boone to ‘roid up….

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Jake C, I saw the Hag box set. Good to see that out and getting good promotion. But between the Hag box set I already had, plus all the individual remastered CDs I bought when they came out a couple years back of his greatest albums, I don’t think i’ll be needing the new box. Great stuff on it, though. Great, great stuff….

Saltywoody, Hampton was supposed to start throwing again sometime this week.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Anders, haven’t heard a word about any leaked names yet. Obviously very, very few have access to it, and they’re not leaking it. Hear it could come out as soon as tomorrow.

You can bet everyone will be ready to pounce. The thing is 400 pages long, from what I hear. Probably be a mind-numbing thing for non-attorneys to have to sift through. But you know what folks will look for first — names. Not sure how many there will be. Could be plenty, might be nothing we’ve not already heard. Just don’t know, don’t have a good sense of what it contains.

By Jon

December 11, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Ay DOB, I saw ‘28 weeks later’, it was a great film, loved it. Loved the eerie music they played throughout most of it, made you feel like all hope was lost while watching it. Any plans to see ‘I Am Legend’ this weekend? Looks really good. I read the book and it was just great, hopefully the film does it some justice.

By northbeach Scott

December 11, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

“Wjones & sscribe” Outstanding refresher on the disasterous Butler/Barker trade. Thank you. This trade caused me to stop following the Braves until 1991. Barker went on to win only 10 games in parts of 3 seasons for the Braves and lose 20. What a mess they made.

“Jim” the Dye/Tucker/Lockhart trade also included the Braves “sending” relief pitcher Jamie Walker, a situational lefty now with the O’s formally with Tigers.

Goes to show that trading has its risks and thus why it is so important to have talented GMs like JS and FW, who can minimize the poor transactions.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

F******* wants to play in the majors. its times like this i really miss ted’s money. we could be in the running for this guy. his batting stats look like chipper’s.

By Lew

December 11, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

David Segui came out yesterday and admitted to using steroids and buying them from a Mets’ clubouse guy. What we may see as a result of the report, is players outing themselves before it is released.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Lew: 110 was about where I thought this team was going with the way they were talking (a little less actually going from 86 to 106.). Yet another disappointment. Alas it was not to be. 106 is more than this team is going to spend, which is yet another reason I don’t think Teixeira will be around after next season.
But it can happen. Power houses don’t have to be built with aging sluggers. They can be built with MLB proven young pitchers and great hitters along with quality young guys. We appear to have quality young guys (too many for my likes, I’d perfer a slower influx of young talent, a stream, if you will vs. a flood). And the team has some quality hitters, Teixeira and Chipper mainly and hoping Francoeur improves more and McCann becomes more consistent. But the team is lacking MLB proven young pitchers. It does have a ton of AAA and AA prospects now, but I’m certainly not on the JoJo boat. That guy needs more time in the minors. The lone MLB proven young pitcher we have is being tossed around in trade scenarios for a player the GM has publicly stated isn’t going to be with the team for any lengthy duration. I’m sure that will fire up the player. I think a team could have been built which would compete well against the AL and win. But it required a higher caliber CF and a longer term solution to the rotation. And a higher caliber CF isn’t going to block the path of any of the 4 or 5 CF prospects we have so long as Wren doesn’t hand out no trade clauses.

Speaking of No Trade clauses, I’m curious to know what the team stance is on this now that JS isn’t GM. Teixeira is going to ask for one to go along with his opt-out clause after 3 seasons in his 7+ year mega deal. opt-out and no trade. Wish I had that in the business world. You can’t fire me, but I can quit if I so choose.

By Lew

December 11, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

I’m about to finish reading Gone Baby Gone by Dennis Lehane (also wrote Mystic River). If the movie is as good as Mystic River was and half as good as the book, it’s got to be incredibly good.

By Gator

December 11, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Maybe they can turn the report into a pdf file. That way the non-attorneys can type in names using the “find” feature. You think it will have a whole chapter on Barry Bonds? Maybe he’ll write the forward.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

oooo, sorry for the dirty language. i usually try to be on my best behavior here. i didnt know that the names of japanese baseball players were censored.

By nOLIE

December 11, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

F* wants to play in the majors. its times like this i really miss ted’s money. we could be in the running for this guy. his batting stats look like chipper’s.DAP

at a much lower level of competition. He will never come close to Chipper as a hitter in the MLB venue.

By jjschiller

December 11, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You hearing any rumor that the Braves added Schafer to the 40 man roster? This rumor is being discussed at another blog.

Can’t think of a reason to add him now, since it just means someone would have to be traded or released…

By McFann

December 11, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

TenPaul

McCann’s fairly consistent. In ‘06 he registered a hit once in every three at-bats. In ‘07 he was consistent, too. Only problem was, he was more consistent at grounding out. But he still got good hits. Towards the end of the season, however, he did start to fade a little, but that could be due to all those minor aches and pains.

By doug

December 11, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Dave, Is that the same Baldwin who did the Sweaty Balls skit on SNL? I get the Baldwins confused. The Christmas season has finally arrived when I see that video. Very funny stuff.

On another unrelated note, the Led Zep show seemed to have gone well last night. How much would anyone pay to see them at the Phillips Arena? Van Halen is getting up to $150 a ticket, so I can’t imagine how HIGH Zep tickets would be.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Chriskolb & Lew:

Many thanks for the response on spring training. I’m looking forward to it, and outside of booking my hotel and figuring out which restaurants I want to hit while down there, will probably just go where the wind (and my car) takes me. Good advice from both of you, and I appreciate it.

Glad we’re unanimous on the worst trade - Barker’s name was foretelling - he turned into a real dog on the mound, and I mean no insult to our beloved canines - he just stunk.

Best trade the Braves ever made? Would have to say that was Doyle Alexander for Smoltz. Second best trade - I would vote for Melvin Nieves and two no-name minor leaugers for Fred McGriff.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

DAP, it’s just an electronic filter that catches certain words. His name, F*kudome, apparently triggers it sometimes. Don’t know what else to tell you, other than be creative and substitute a letter or two.

Lew, the movie Gone Baby Gone is outstanding. Ben Affleck’s directing is first rate, and his brother acting is, too. Great cast top to bottom.

They used actual lower-middle-class South Boston and plenty of very real locals as extras, plus in a couple of key speaking parts. Made it feel very authentic.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

TennPaul ive been very interested in your posts the last couple of days about the braves not being built to win it all, and the projections for some of our players by you and others on the blog.

i definetly agree with you that on paper, the braves dont really have a shot at the world series title. mostly because of the pitching, but we also have a fairly inexperienced team.

but the more i think about it, the more that i realize that all you can really do is get the best players you can, and hope they all have good years at once.

i got to thinking about the 2003 marlins, and, basically what happened, is that a bunch of guys had career years and some rookies came into their own, and they won it all.

the beat the more experienced and on paper, the better yankee team in the series.

now, i dont think that the yankees were as stacked in 2003 as the red sox or tigers are now, but they were still seen as the bigger, better team.

the braves have alot of kids with alot of potential, and in 2008, these kids just might come into their own, making the braves a power house! along with some veterans having career years, who knows? this could be on of the best braves teams weve ever seen!

2008 could be our year…..

By DonCoburleone

December 11, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

DOB I did some research on defensive metrics, here’s what I came up with:

RZR (or ZR) Revised Zone Rating is the proportion of balls hit into a fielder’s zone that he successfully converted into an out. Zone Rating was invented by John Dewan when he was CEO of Stats Inc. John is now the owner of Baseball Info Solutions, where he has revised the original Zone Rating calculation so that it now lists balls handled out of the zone (OOZ) separately (and doesn’t include them in the ZR calculation) and doesn’t give players extra credit for double plays (Stats had already made that change). We believe both changes improve Zone Ratings substantially. To get a full picture of a player’s range, you should evaluate both his Revised Zone Rating and his plays made out of zone (OOZ).

Renteria’s RZR: .815

Escobar’s RZR: .848

So basically this is saying that for balls hit into the Shortstop’s “Zone”, Renteria made the play 81.5% of the time in 2007 and Escobar made the play 84.8% of the time (keep in mind, this is not fielding percentage; a ball that goes as a base hit but is hit into the SS’s “Zone” counts against him as well as errors). To put this into real world numbers, a shortstop who plays everday averages around 410 balls hit into his “zone”. So if we multiply that out, Renteria would make an out 334 times while Escobar would make the out 348 times. Escobar is worth 14 more outs than Renteria over the course of a season.

OOZ Out Of Zone, or the total number of outs made by a fielder on balls hit outside of his zone.

Renteria’s OOZ: 49

Escobar’s OOZ: 33 (when multiplied out to equal the same # of plays Renteria had).

So it appears that Renteria is better at getting to balls outside of his “zone”, although Escobar has such a small sample size that number could vary widely over the course of a full season…

And just to give a little perspective, Troy Tulowitzki, arguably the best defensive SS in baseball right now, had a .861RZR with an 87 OOZ… Escobar compares favorably to SS’s like Khalil Greene, Rafael Furcal, and recently departed Tony F. Pena…

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

DAP, and others. I do not discount the possibilies that this team could fulfill. I keep saying that they will be contenders for the division, and it will be fun to watch. I just don’t think the team is strong enough to win it all and I was hoping that they’d make moves to shore that up as well as soften next off-seasons turn over. It’s caused some to scratch their heads and others to mis-read my tones. The moves aren’t horrible, they just aren’t what I was hoping. I don’t think Wren has ruined the team. We haven’t lost any key players besides AJ that haven’t been replaced with quality young guys.

There is a slim chance that they could perform very well together and over come the AL foe. The Tigers for instance will have a relatively weaker defense. I love Renteria, but he is lacking in range and Miguel has never been a gold glover. So the left side of their infield appears to have some holes that could be exploited. In addition, that bull pen hasn’t been improved from the meltdown disaster it was last season. So a team with a top notch, shut down rotation could over match the Tigers. The Yankees are a hard one to figure. The young pitchers could see a “sophomore slump” and hinder the team from advancing deep into October. The Red Sox on the other hand, any team that plays them needs to play perfect baseball. They are the most well balanced team out there. So yes, it is possible. And like I said before, once the season starts, I’ll be cheering like made that it all works out. And as far as my disbelief carries me for Teixeira returning after the season, I do believe we will see something magical from him. He is, after all, a Boras client. And, even though I called this for AJ last off season, I think Teixeira has the hitter skills and focus to be able to step up his game for his contract year, enough so to make Blauser proud. All of that could equate to a tremendous season. I’m just saying we were in a position to have that and more. But c’est la vi. (that’s French for … whatever).

Rest assured though, I will be in full force come February. The Dirtbags will be on the field and pitchers and catchers will be reporting. Nothing better than that no matter how dim the outlook.

By Anders

December 11, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Lew How about the Yanks/Mariners Ken Phelps for Jay Buhner trade ? Phelps played about a year for the Yanks hit 17 HR’s and just over 50 RBI’s. Buhner went on to hit over 300 HR’s and drive in almost 1000 runs for the Mariners and played a pretty good RF in his day. This is the trade Frank Costanza rails Steinbrener on when The Boss comes to tell him his son George is dead on Seinfeld.

By ncscoots

December 11, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, thanks for the link to the Murray Chass archive.

Interesting that the situations between that offseason and this, re CF and OF, have some similarity: good kids ready or near-ready (Jones and Dye then, Jones and Schaefer now). The difference, of course, being that the Braves were one of the top 5 payrolls in MLB then and “stop-gapped” with the best leadoff hitter in baseball, whereas today the stop-gap might be, well, not quite of that caliber :-).

By jester1996

December 11, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Here is my prediction. Chuck James will have a break out season with Tom Glavine in his corner to bring him along. Not only were the Braves getting Glavine back for the year but they were buying a mentor for James. Tough to beat for the money!

By jester1996

December 11, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Here is my prediction. Chuck James will have a break out season with Tom Glavine in his corner to bring him along. Not only were the Braves getting Glavine back for the year but they were buying a mentor for James. Tough to beat for the money!

By Renegator

December 11, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Are the point spreads out for this years bowl games yet? Anyone know where I can find them?

Now, Braves. With the bullpen already being crowded and with so many guys out of options - who goes down when Gonzalez comes back? Will we have to cut someone?

By DAP

December 11, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

HUA, tennpaul. i am predicting a few things in 2008:

1. Kelly Johnson is going to explode…in a good way. i really think that he will be compared to chase utley in a few years, and 2008 is the first step towards that.

2. tex will be 2008 NL MVP. you heard it here first. im thinking around a .300 avg, 40HR, and 140RBI.

3. francouer will get his HR numbers back in the mid-20s and by the end of the season, be the favorite to bat cleanup in 2009 if tex leaves.

By Overlord

December 11, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I wouldnt start talking about Gonzo until he comes back and saves 5 games.

By Zoldars the Reverend

December 11, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Hey, I predicted a Tex MVP a few weeks back! I called shotgun on that one.

But, you can have it I spose…

By Kieran from Long Island

December 11, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

JIM

that Grissom trade you referenced was a reaaaal bad one…

March 25, 1997: Traded by the Atlanta Braves with David Justice to the Cleveland Indians for Alan Embree and Kenny Lofton.

Keep in mind it was in the wake of the error he made in the world series which often gets over looked, that cost the braves game 5 of the 1996 world series in that 1-0 loss to andy pettite and the yankees.

I wonder if they were to hand on to Justice and grissom if they would have won a second world series? Oh well, its too late for that.

They also did aquire him in a bit of a lopsided deal.

April 6, 1995: Traded by the Montreal Expos to the Atlanta Braves for Tony Tarasco, Esteban Yan, and Roberto Kelly.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Zoldars the Reverend

aint steppin on your toes, brother. dont worry, by august, the tex-for-mvp bandwagon will be packed.

By sri

December 11, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Jon Heyman of CNNSI says this.. “And the Mets offered different packages of prospects that included either outfielder Carlos Gomez or outfield prospect Fernando Martinez but not both, declining to include the one extra prospect the Twins requested to clinch the deal according to people familiar with those talks.”

Were the Mets really that close to getting Santana?? That is a scary thought..

Anders, what do you think of the Mets not including the extra prospect?

By Zoldars the Reverend

December 11, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Im just foolin with ya DAP. Look, I got 2 seats in front and a wagon in back…Everybody hop on ! First stop on the bandwagon - New york City! Were running over soon to be crowned man of the year for Time, People, and High Times - everyones favorite “gold” to tarnished brass glover, Daaaaaavid Wright!

Then its on to coopersville. We need to see toll booth willie too.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

I’ve gotta chime in on the built-for-success discussion. I really find it hard to believe that people are arguing that the Braves can’t or won’t compete for a World Series title this year. That argument seems totally unfounded to me.

If anything, I’d argue that (unlike in years past) the Braves are NOT built for the regular season, but would be an amazing team in the playoffs.

I say this because I think their top arms and some of their better position players are, indeed, getting a little older. Smoltz will certainly have to skip a start or two this year to keep his arm in shape, as will Hampton if he can pitch at all. Glavine will be good for 6-7 innings a start and can certainly pick up some of that slack, but will probably need a rest from time to time. Hudson is always nasty at the beginning of year and then fades a little down the stretch. And, of course, Hoss is going to miss his obligatory 20-30 games, McCann will have to rest from time to time, etc. Between all that need for occasional days off from some of the most productive players, and factoring in that there will likely be some injuries that come in to the fray, the Braves will have to look to solid production from the rookies to sustain them during the regular season…always a scary thing to have to do.

However, if they can get to the playoffs, this is one of the last teams I’d want to face.

Consider going up against a top three of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine/Hampton/Jurrjens in a short series. Smoltz is one of the best post season pitchers of all time, Hudson has proven he can be filthy in the playoffs, and I think a sharp Hampton or Glavine (with his experience) or even Jurrjens (keep Ubaldo Jimenez in mind from this past year’s series) could step in and make the series close to unwinnable for any other national league team. When you combine those starters with Escobar, who was great in crunch time last year and showed excellent composure, Chip and Tex hitting back to back in the middle, and Frenchy and McCann with an extra year under their belts….that kind of a team has the potential to make a deep run through the playoffs.

In fact, I’d argue that if the bullpen projects as favorably as it looks it might (with all the rolls set from day 1- i.e. Soriano closing, Moylan setting up, etc.), and everyone’s healthy for the playoffs, the Braves stand the best chance of any NL team to take on the Sox or the Tigers.

Honestly, who else is there? The Cardinals proved a couple years ago that even a Jeff Suppan/Jason Marquis/Reyes combination can get you through the playoffs…and they had Wainwright closing, who had never closed a game in his life up to that point.

And how about the Rockies this past year? Who would have thought a team with Aaron Cook and Jeff Francis and a rookie as their playoff rotation would make it to the series?

The National League is eminently winnable and the Braves have got to be a favorite to get their. The Mets have done nothing to improve, Philly’s pitching has gotten worse (if that’s possible), The D-Backs are a great team but their bats are easily quieted by good pitching…even the Dodgers are suspect, seeing as the majority of their hopes ride on Furcal (who had an awful year last year), Jeff Kent (who is getting ancient and has been steadily declining in production), Andruw Jones (don’t get anyone here started on his productivity in the clutch), Nomar (more injury prone than all of the Braves starters put together), and a rotation that doesn’t produce anywhere near what they cost.

Granted, this is not taking a lot of variables into account and making some pretty significant assumptions about the health of older players and the success of young ones. But, aren’t all teams making those assumptions in one way or another?

As I see it, the Braves are the team to beat. Call me a homer…but I’d like to see a team that is as evenly balanced and talented throughout its composition in the NL.

By sri

December 11, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Here is the link to the CNNSI article..

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/12/11/tuesday.scoop/index.html

By Braveheart

December 11, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Are the point spreads out for this years bowl games yet? Anyone know where I can find them?

Renegator I don’t know what the point spread is for the college bowl games but I heard the point spread for the Jets & Patriots this weekend is something like 26 points. The Pats will win by even more than that. The Jets are gonna get massacred. It might be the first time I enjoy watching a blowout because a coach is finally gonna have no shame about taking no prisoners. I hate the Pats but that should be fun to watch.

As for the blowout I wasted my time attending last night at the Dome, that was not fun at all. What a horrible day to be a Falcons fan. I was/am the biggest Vick apologist around but I have never been letdown by an athlete as bad as this. Damn you, Michael. Damn you.

Well, in good news, Broadway Joe Willie White Shoes Namath is about to finally graduate from Alabama 42 years later. Congrats Joe. Roll Tide!

By Bryan

December 11, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Dave,

did you ever get the radiohead? The 2nd disk that is packaged with the 1st disk if you buy it and have it shipped to you - is OUTSTANDING.

It really completes the album, it’s not an album of out takes as advertised.

In Rainbow - now with the 2nd disk just released - might be Radiohead’s best work.

By Bryan

December 11, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Dave,

did you ever get the radiohead? The 2nd disk that is packaged with the 1st disk if you buy it and have it shipped to you - is OUTSTANDING.

It really completes the album, it’s not an album of out takes as advertised.

In Rainbows - now with the 2nd disk just released - might be Radiohead’s best work.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Hitters also really like Tyler Yates straight 97 mph fastballs so much that they yank them 400 feet a whole lot…

DOB, did you read what Jack Armstrong said about he thought that 60 to 80 % of all MLB players have used or use steroids (from 1988 thru 2000) ? This is one more player (along with Canseco,Schilling,Giambi,and J.Grimsley) that has said steroids use was rampant. It amazes me that ESPN and other sports news outlets have basically ignored this. Its almost like since sports journalists all love baseball and make a living covering these players that its okay to ignore it. Its not ignored in other sports such as weight lifting,bicycling,and track where athletes have been banned and have lost medals (Marion Jones). Its not ignored in the NFL where players are randomly tested weekly. Bud Selig should have been fired for ignoring this drug abuse. All the owners bow down to the players union and Don Fehr. Their view is it will only hurt their revenues if Barry Bonds is banned from the game since fans pay to see him hit homeruns. The players get their millions and the owners get their millions and all is well. If every player were allowed to use the performance enhancing drugs then there wouldn’t be a problem. But if (for instance) Barry Bonds is allowed and Chipper Jones is not allowed to use these drugs then its not fair. That is exactly what we have now (and have had) with many players illegally using these drugs. Since nobody can go back to 2005 and test players the only answer is accountability. That accountabilty comes from the top. Bud Selig and Don Fehr should be fired and banned from MLB.

By DAP

December 11, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

SaltyWoody right on, brother!!! all you need to do is reference tex for MVP and your IN THE BANDwagon…

By Efrim

December 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Aaron Cook for 3 years and 30 million….

Here is the going rate for starters:

It is scary.

By MGL

December 11, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, I like your 3:46 and agree with you. One Key will be to get off to a good start and be in a good position when the rosters expand to put in some substitute arms from the farm to rest the primary arms for the playoffs.

By ncscoots

December 11, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Hitters also really like Tyler Yates straight 97 mph fastballs so much that they yank them 400 feet a whole lot

Yes, exactly as often as hitters do with Smoltz’s fastballs…about 1 every 11 innings.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

BY THE WAY, TEX IS THIS YEAR’S MVP, SMOLTZIE’S THE CY YOUNG, AND BOBBY IS MANAGER OF THE YEAR

Sorry, had to round out the homerism.

By uga-brave

December 11, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

efrim,

price of poker is going up. either pay to play or fold.

By TEX MVP Bandwagon

December 11, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Hop on everyone! We are stopping for ice cream first

By Anders

December 11, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

SRI Not sure how to read Heyman saying Minaya would offer both prospects to “Clinch it”. Does that mean the Twins said “gives us both and the deal is done”? If so, I find it suprising Minaya would not make that deal. I tend to think he was more worried they would take his offer right to the Yanks and Sox to up the ante which is what I thought they would do and thus eliminate the Mets. If so, Minaya’s right to hold his last chip. When you see the other guys have more chips you have to hold your last one to see if they’re even interested in pricing you out. Both the Yanks and Sox could have eliminated the Mets best offer by now - Why haven’t they? I’m still not sure they absolutely want Santana at $25 mil and would just assume see him go to the Mets or elsewhere rather than to each other. There’s hardly a word been said about Santana to the Yanks up here - The fans don’t seem to care - very strange.

By TEX MVP Bandwagon

December 11, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Can anyone drive a stick?

By beachcomber

December 11, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Ouch - The 3:33 post opened one of two wounds I almost get healed (the other being the 1997 playoff fiasco).

You can never recapture the past, but I’ve always wondered how many more World Series flags would be hanging at the Ted if we had held on to Grissom and Justice. Or even how the ‘96 series would have played out if Justice had not been injured.

That trade rivals Len Barkergate in Atlanta Braves annals.

By Steamboat

December 11, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Anders, I don’t think anybody is gonna give Santana $25 mil/year. If that’s what Santana wants to sign, nobody is going to give up top prospects for the priviledge of doing that deal.

These numbers tend to get exaggerated in the course of blogging. I bet he doesn’t get more than $20 mil, and really think it’ll be more like $18 mil over a long term, which is still huge … but of course, we’ll see.

By ncscoots

December 11, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Efrim, the effects of inflation alone account for some of the rise in salaries. Braves were at $65MM a decade ago, and that translates to $85MM in today’s dollars. That’s if supply and demand were the same now as then, and player salaries had risen only at the rate of inflation. It’s not, and they haven’t.

Hot dogs and beer are going up, my friend, LOL.

By CHIPPER MVP Bandwagon

December 11, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Sorry TEX MVPBandwagon, you’re the Smokey to my Bandit.

By McFann

December 11, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Hey, does anybody know what time the Braves are s’posed to arrive at Turner Field? It would be a big help if you did.

Thanks.

Oh…Uh, why? Well, I’m writing a book, and the supporting character is a baseball player. I really need this info.

Write to ya later.

By Anders

December 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

SRI BTW- I think whichever two teams lose out in the Santana sweepstakes will lead the charge for Tex next off season. Figure the same $22-25 mil per as Santana except more years.

I believe he’ll leave the ice cream shops and stick shift cars for Nobu and limo’s.

By OrlandoFan

December 11, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

Hey, Jim Liked the bad-trade list… How do you feel about Joe Torre for Orlando Cepeda? Torre slimmed down and moved to 3B and won a batting a title, as I recall. What do you think?

By Anders

December 11, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Steamboat Andruw Jones just got $18 mil per. Tori Hunter $18 mil per. I agree with the limited prospects part which I think is the exaggerated partbut the money today is out of control.

By TEX MVP Bandwagon

December 11, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Anders, this is a ferrari bandwagon. Please…

Anyways, all points moot. We have a driver now, a couple pints o’ cherry Garcia, and were on our way.

As for the CHIPPED BONES MVP Bandwagon, You guys rockin the old firebird or what? lets race

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Steamboat , nobody but the Yankees and Red Sox. The sticking point is the number and quality of prospects.

Believe me when I say this , it’s not about the money when referring to the previously mentioned two teams , it’s the prospects and talent they are contemplating giving up.

Dap , if and thats a BIG IF….Hampton shows up healthy and stays that way for the duration of the season. The Braves pitching is as good or better than any team in the N.L.

Getting to the playoff’s is half the battle. I fully expect this team to get to there , anything else will take some good luck and the players ramping it up.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

And now , some baseball news that is weird to say the least.

Joe Mauer is getting a little old for a growth spurt.

But the Twins catcher, who was 6-4 last season, has pushed past 6-5 and is approaching 6-6.

The team lists him at 6-5 in the media guide, but Mauer acknowledged that he is actually 6-6 “wearing shoes.”I’ve been growing ever since last year,” he said Wednesday. “I don’t want to get too big, or I might have to move [positions].”

Mauer was 6-4 when the Twins drafted him out of Cretin-Derham Hall in 2001. His big growth spurt came earlier in high school, and he stayed the same height until last year.

Mauer, who turns 24 on April 19, wishes this unexpected spurt would stop.

“Hopefully I’ll grow the other way,” he said. “I’d like to get a little stronger, but I don’t know about taller.”

Mauer said he doesn’t think the recent growth prompted the stress reaction he had in his left fibula this spring. He also doesn’t think it’s affecting his coordination. Tough to argue that after last year’s batting title and this year’s 5-for-11 start.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Anybody know what’s going on with Wickman at this point? Not that anyone probably cares…

But, I’d love to know if someone’s going to pick him up for his great clubhouse demeanor…

By Lew

December 11, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Robdawg-Uh, Dude, Yates may have given up a few runs, but only gave up six HR’s in 66 IP. That’s one HR for every 11 IP-which is not bad at all.

AS far as anything being ignored-Uh, Dude, have you been on another planet the past three years? Have you not read the sports page? Have you not listened to the sportscasts on TV or the radio? Have you not read the blog? Did you perhaps miss the Senate hearings? Did you maybe not pay attention to Bonds’ HR chase? I daresay that steroids have been in the open and on the news even more than the affairs of Former Presidents were several years ago, or reporting on the war in Iraq is now-God knows we never heard of them either, did we? What’s past is past. There is not a damn thing that can be done about it now that hasn’t already been done with Collective Bargaining Agreements and increased testing and penalties. That is, unless you would like to know who all was involved and execute them after applying an asterisk to their headstones.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, Wickman remains unsigned.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Robdawg, your 4:20 p.m. post would have made valid points … if you’d written it five years ago.

You can’t possibly believe ESPN and other journalists have “avoided” the topic of steroids in recent years. No, please tell me you don’t believe that.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

MLB has received the Mitchell report. The names of 60-80 former and current players are rumored to be listed in the four hundred page document. The You Know What is about to hit the fan and it’s gonna splatter all over the baseball world.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Bryan, I downloaded the Radiohead album a while back, and it is outstanding. Haven’t heard the second disc. I was gonna buy it in the stores when it came out next month, but if you’re saying they’ll send a second disc if you but it from them directly, sounds like I should do that. Where’d you order it from?

By Braveheart

December 11, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

holy cow. petrino resigns. what an awful 30 hours for falcons fans.

By Saltywoody

December 11, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

His time with the Braves really came to an ignominious end. He was so good during that stint at the end of the year before…really helped solidify everything.

He must have gotten sick of the fat jokes.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

Lew, I was referring to it being ignored for decades not the past year. Don’t be condescending to me DUDE. You only prove my point with what you have said. You cannot go back and execute these players like Bonds but you can hold Bud Selig and Don Fehr accountable for the blatantly weak testing or non-testing of players over the years. Its just like in football you can’t fire the whole team (players) but you can fire the coach. Its really great that they want to go after Bonds and McGwire AFTER their careers are basically over (McGwire’s is). The truth is that this MLB game is a money machine business that nobody (owners or players) wants to stop even if they have to allow cheating (steroids).

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

And the hits keep coming for the Falcons….

By Michael

December 11, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Awwwhh… Poor Muts. http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071211&content_id=2322961&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

By gobraves

December 11, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Tell me about it DOB. 1st Vick is gone for sure and then the next day the coach resigns. MAN O MAN!!!

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

DOB, did you download any Breakin Benjamin or Default music ?

You are correct that its too late to test retired players now but its not too late to fire Selig and Fehr. Selig has been nothing other than a puppet for the owners anyway (since he was a former owner of the Brewers). Selig knew that 75% of all the players were using steroids in the early 90’s and he didn’t want another blemish on the game (ala a players strike or owners lockout) so he turned a blind eye on drug testing the players.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

Mike Vick is a total disgrace. They guy has 100+ million dollars and he still wants to live the thug life fighting dogs and having a thug entourage. I saw this coming when all that trouble happened with his brother Marcus at Va Tech (DUI’s,fighting,theft,etc.). Especially when Mike Vick said this when asked about his brother’s troubles : “Marcus is a good kid and its not a big deal.” The Falcons are really a horrible franchise. They traded away Brett Favre,lost Vick,and traded Schaub. Now they have a career third stringer at QB (Redman). Most people would commit suicide for less than that…

By Mike Honcho

December 11, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

Where was Stuart Scott with the Taguchi talk? That’s the easiest one. If the Braves sign him the Men in Black Blog will be looking at Taguchi ‘cause it’s about that time.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

nscoots, Smoltz pitches an average of 7 innings straight per game and gives up 1 per 11 innings. Yates pitches 1 inning every 4 games and gives up 1 per 11 innings. Do I need to explain the difference ?

By Kieran, Long Island Brave Fan

December 11, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Can I ask how the Brewers Managed to designate Laynce Nix for assignment, get him through waivers and assign him to the minors without ANYONE especially the Braves claiming him?? I mean this seems silly. Also, if Lance cormier was not claimed off waivers why did the Braves release him? I udnerstand he could have declined his option to the minors and because a free agent but wouldn’t you at least TRY to option him to richmond?? DO NOT tell me that they think he’s that bad because if that were the case they wouldnt have wasted so many starts on him last year. DOB am I missing something technical here with these waiver rules?? It just seems very puzzling to me.

By ncgary

December 11, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

hey if hampton gives 8 innings in game 7 against detroit in october november, then it is a great trade , is it not??? one thing about hampton , when he’s healthy its like having an extra pinch hitter every 4 out of 5 games ,

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Laynce Nix was designated for assignment on the 5th of Dec., he cleared waivers without being claimed by another team and was out righted to Nashville on the 11th of Dec. That is the way the rules work.

Lance Cormier was released because he was eligible for arbitration and the Braves didn’t want to be responsible for paying his new salary which would have topped one million or more. Cormier was 2-6 with an ERA of 7.09 in 2007.

By Metropolitan Man

December 11, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Ok Net GM’s. Just curious to know if you guys would have pulled the trigger on this deal???

NASHVILLE - Even though George Steinbrenner is no longer the one to say it, Brian Cashman had better be right about Phil Hughes.

The Yankee GM, who is staking his job on his young-gun pitchers, has walked away from a 4-for-1 trade of players the Twins were agreeable to for Johan Santana at the winter meetings that included Hughes, but not Ian Kennedy (as Minnesota initially requested) or any of the Bombers’ other top prospects. By doing so, Cashman has apparently handed one of the best young pitchers in baseball to the Red Sox for a parcel of prospects that is also likely to be a far cry from the Twins’ original asking price for their premier lefthander.

The entire article can be read following this link. This article didnt stay up long and I wonder how many Stankees fans are aware of this. It was printed on the 5th, NY daily News.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/05/2007-12-05briancashmanyanksbalkatmillions_and.html?page=0

By AdirondackDave

December 11, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Wow, if 60-80 is right and it may not be, that’s about 10%. At first that seems like a high number but then I remember Caminiti and maybe Conseco also said it was a much higher percentage. In any case, our favorite passtime is apparently about to be severely tested. Hope the Braves come out of this ok.

I don’t fault the baseball writers and other media. Seems like the stories have been around for a long time. I think Bud Selig was just not the leader he should have been, to put it mildly, on this issue. The union obstructed stronger, earlier testing but I suppose it could be argued that was their role, to defend players. There is very little however to defend management and the commissioner’s office from charges that they didn’t push nearly hard enough. Under this commissioner’s tenure the concept of “in the best interest of baseball” has obviously been ignored for soaring TV revenues and fat club profits. Including Selig’s own apparently, his salary has been reported at $17M this year. I’d like to know if that is accurate.

By Choppinmama

December 11, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em: I’m playing catch-up reading the blog and saw your request for ST advice. I’d encourage you to buy tickets IN ADVANCE, especially for weekend games. More and more games have been selling out the past few years. There’s always the grass berm, but it looks tight and uncomfortable on a really crowded day, and you have to contend with all of the kids running around, playing “ball”.

You could always wait until right before game time to buy good seats, but then you miss bp, which is, to my mind, half the fun of being there.

Try to go to some of our games at the other venues too. Tickets close to the Braves dugout are easier to come by away from Disney.

And, if you want to go to Tampa to see the Braves v. Yankees, I’d really encourage you to already have a ticket. They usually sell out every game, and the line to buy day-of-game tix is looooooooong.

By Bryan

December 11, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

Buying “In Rainbows” from radiohead is expensive… . from them its like 80 bucks when i checked but it comes with a WHOLE LOT OF ART WORK … if i had the money i would buy it …

The new songs on the second disk are pretty astounding and can be picked up for free with a good torrent search … not that i approve of that!

By SNIPER-69

December 11, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

Have the METS landed Santana yet?

By Stephen

December 11, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

FYI, “F u k u d o m e” is pronounced:

foo-koo-doh-may

By Lew

December 11, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

Robdawg-DUDE-I’ll be as condescending as I damn well please if you’re going to sit and talk down to us as if we have no clue. Hold them responsible? How exactly are you going to do that? What purpose would be served? Think it might force them to take action-Oh wait, they already did-couple years ago. Do you really think that the owners are going to fire him or something after it was them that hired him to begin with? After he made them all of this money? Isn’t it enough that all of us who are true fans realize that the DUDE is a complete fool and a putz in the bargain?

What you said was that statements by such stalwarts as Curt Schilling (gee, we’ve never heard HIM run HIS mouth before, have we?) were being ignored. At the very best DUDE-you were ingenuous to mention something that, like several of us have said to you, we were quite aware of a long time ago. Sorry you don’t understand that this is old business-or is it that you are just having a hard time letting go and moving on? Do we need to be careful and hope you don’t have roid rage.

By Lew

December 11, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-DISingeuous.

By Metropolitan Man

December 11, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Santana is not a MET……yet Sniper. Trust us, this site will be the 1st to know.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Robdawg, no, haven’t downloaded Breaking Benjamin or Default. First group’s not really my cup of tea (I liked some Linkin Park, but that’s about the extent of my interest in that genre) and I honestly don’t know who Default is. I must be getting old.

As for “firing” Bud Selig and Donald Fehr, uh, well, who do you propose fires them, Robdawg? I mean, sometimes you actually have to consider the reality of the situation before just saying things that really aren’t very logical.

By that I mean, Selig is employed by the owners, and they like him so much they gave him an extension. There is NO ONE above him in baseball, so who do you propose is going to fire him? Owners are the only ones who can do that, and he’s overseen a huge economic growth period in baseball, lining owners’ pockets with cash. So why would they fire him?

Same principle applies to Fehr. He’s employed by the players’ union; in other words, he’s employed by the players to represent them. Not by baseball. And he’s been the man behind the largest percentage of player-salary increases in history, made the start rich beyond belief and gotten the minimum salary up to $390,000. Who do you think is going to fire him?

From most players’ perspective, he’s done a terrific job. They have the most powerful union in sports, and perhaps in labor in this country, period.

So who do you propose fire Selig and Fehr? The fans? The media? The government? That kid in the Geico commercial who says, “I’m 100 miles away, ready to strike”?

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB,I propose that Congress make them resign.

Lew,you called me DUDE first. But obviously its wrong for me to also call you DUDE ? Everybody, including DOB and Lew want to act like the steroid abuse never happened. And that’s the biggest problem of all. When people do wrong they get punished not ignored and commended.

DOB, download “Taking My Life Away” - by Defualt and Breathe - by Breakin Benjamin. It takes like 1 minute to download each.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave , thats 60 to 80 current and FORMER players rumored to be on the Mitchell report. So , more than a few names we will know about are already out of baseball.

Now, please before you read this , form your own opinion , because this is just educated guesswork and pure speculation on my part.

Because Kirk Radomski (former Mets clubhouse attendant)is one of the central figures in the Mitchell report , one has to wonder how many current and former Met players will be revealed in the list.

Names like Piazza come to mind , among others. I hate picking on one player , but when looking at his numbers as a catcher playing the toughest position in the game and being a former Met (1998-2005), one has to wonder.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 11, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Of course , when it comes to steroid abuse. The other name that comes immediately to mind is Javy Lopez.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

Everyone in MLB wanted to blame Canseco for telling the public that players were juiced on steroids. Canseco should be commended. I’m sure the players had this code of honor deal like police have but Canseco broke it. If Canseco doesn’t reveal it then its business as usual. I would even approve of having all the players named in the report donate $1 million dollars each (Bonds $10 million) to drug prevention schools and to the police drug unit squads. How can the public accept no restitution or jail time from these cheaters ?

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

Coach, I mentioned Javy Lopez’ name too. Remember the year he “slimmed down and muscled up” ? I wouldn’t be surprised if several Braves were on the list because Ken Caminiti played with the Braves. He was a readily available source to any who wanted it…

By Metropolitan Man

December 11, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Sheffield and Javy lopez got the juice from the former METS clubhouse attendant. Come to think of it, maybe thats why Chumper Jones, Prior, Wood and guys like that keep breaking down. Thier bodies either rejected the steroids or they couldnt keep it up because the cat was out of the bag.

By Lew

December 11, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

Robdawg-For crying out loud. How many damn times must we acknowledge behavior that happened years ago-that has been on the airways, on the sports broadcasts, on XM Home Plate, on ESPN 1 and 2, ON CNN for heaven’s sake? It’s over. Do you understand that? It is over. It has been investigated both by MLB and by Congress. Canseco wrote a book about it. Palmiero got nailed. Bonds is on trial. It is no longer common practice. It is now tested for. It has been legislated against. PLayers have received major suspensions for failing the aforementioned tests. I don’t know how in the world you can consider that anyone’s head is in the sand on the subject. It has been acknowledged. It has been debated. Players have been condemned for it. McGuire was not, nor will he be admitted to the HOF as a result.

You can’t go back and change what happened. We are aware of it. It is no longer tolerated. Do you seriously think that firing a 70 something year old Commissioner, who is on the verge of retirement and who has overseen the most dramatic economic growth in the history of the Sport will change anything? Will it somehow make Hank Aaron home run King yet again?

All David and I have tried to do is to tell you that the only lasting result of your rant-which we have heard, agreed with, argued about and widely acknowledged numerous times over the course of the past several years-is a boost in what appears to be your already out of this world blood pressure readings.

Do you even realize all of the anger pouring out of you? You’ve posted at least five absolute rants condemning everyone from the Vick Brothers (who I have no idea what they even have to do with a steroid discussion), to myself, DOB and even NCScoots, who had the temerity to tell you Smoltz gave up a greater number of HR’s per nine innings than Yates. Maybe you need to get a grip. You’re sounding more than a little stressed.

By Roman Gal

December 11, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

Coach, Javy was just a naturally perfect specimen. It’s okay. I understand why men are so jealous of him…

I’m just messin’ with ya, man!

By Lew

December 11, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-Typical Damn Mutts fan. The Mets screw up and it’s the Braves fault, right? Sheffield only played for the Braves a short time and to this point the only rap against Javy is that he was ripped. If he did do any substances, we haven’t heard any inkling except speculation by people like you that are basically clueless, anyway. Time will tell and useless speculation is just that-useless.

However, we know for a fact that the Mets had at least one player dumb enough to get nailed AFTER the sanctions were implemented and yesterday, David Segui, an ex Met admitted to using steroids and to purchasing them from the aforementioned clubhouse Dude. Maybe you would do well to not worry so much about throwing stones, but how the scandal will affect an already dysfunctional Mets’ clubhouse. After all, don’t want to get your star closer any more upset than he already is.

By robdawg06

December 11, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

Sorry Lew and others. I’m a little stressed for these reasons : 1)Vick 2)The Braves have no CF 3) The Dawgs got screwed out of playing in the NC 4)The millionaire players and billionaire owners closed their eyes to drug abuse and justice is not served 5) Hillary might be the next President These are all thorns in my side… Lol.

By nOLIE

December 11, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Did I see that Bennett got really pounded in his last start? 10 hit 2 walks and 5 runs in 3 innings. Any word that it might be health related?

By ed

December 11, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Off topic, but this is hilarious…A Mitchell Report Draft! haha..

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/11/the-mitchell-report-draft/

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Actually, Lew and others, there is still HGH being used, though no one is sure of the percentage of players in MLB and especially the NFL who are using it. No reliable test yet for that drug, and until there is a test there’s not much that leagues can do except make it illegal and hope clueless folks are caught with it.

By uga-brave

December 11, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

bud selig is no more guilty then any of the owners. they needed rears in the seats and they got them. the entire country was entharalled with the sosa mcgwire home run race. owners, players, all should share responsibility.

one good thing did come out of that era. CHICKS DIG THE LONGBALL, probably one of the best sports commercials of all time.

pretty positive glavine and maddux are not on the mitchell report.

By TJ

December 11, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

The Braves signed RHP Jorge Campillo, ex-Seattle Mariner. He pitched for Mexico in the World Classic,i think.

          *ESPNDeportes.com*

Any truth to this DOB??? Are they going to use him as a reliver?? or AAA or what???

By TheBigDawg

December 11, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Don’t be shocked to see Chipper’s name come out in the Mitchell Report. Take a look at some old pics of his 1999 MVP season. He was much bigger then and has been fragile in the years since. I hope he’s not in it, it just wouldn’t surprise me at all.

By uga-brave

December 11, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

here is the solution to all of our problems. let arthur blank and liberty media swap teams. no one cares about the falcons and liberty media is just in it for the tax break. dont you think arthur is wishing he was still making decisions about aisle 12 at home depot. i know its hard to feel somewhat sorry for a millionaire but blank has had a tough season. he would of been a fantastic BRAVES owner.

By uga-brave

December 11, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

watching the bobby petrino arkansas news conference. wow less then 24 hours after the game, bizarre. RICH MACKAY should be fired. you know the old saying ” you knew i was a snake when you picked me up.”

By uncle peepot

December 11, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

sign Wickman to close again.

By Bobby Petrino

December 11, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves hiring? I don’t like Arkansas

By Mike Vick

December 11, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Yo, DUDE, don’t be dissing my bro Marcus. Who would have thought he would be referred to as the good son?

By DAP

December 12, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

robdawg06 nscoots, Smoltz pitches an average of 7 innings straight per game and gives up 1 per 11 innings. Yates pitches 1 inning every 4 games and gives up 1 per 11 innings. Do I need to explain the difference?

i know alot of other stuff has been talked about since you posted this, but ive got to ask you what the difference is.

if yates gives up a homerun once every 11 appearances, i fial to see how that translates to him giving up alot of homeruns.

it also averages out to one homerun per month. that sounds pretty good.

id be interested to see how you can spin it so that 6 homeruns in 66 innings seems like alot.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 12, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Hey guys and gals, this site is funnier than a Jim Belushi movie….. Bad news about Bennett, hope he didn’t strain his elbow again. Just goes to show you pitchers are as fragile as a porcelain doll.

Feel sorry for Arthur Blank, really…. One would have thought he would have chosen a more honorable hobby like gambling rather than a pro sports franchise.

Funny thing about HGH, it will make the muscles bigger but they will not make the muscles stronger.

By uga-brave

December 12, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

60-80 players on the mitchell report. what’s the over under on the home team? gonna be a couple of former players for sure. i think there might me a suprise or two.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this

Gil, don’t know where you’re getting your info on HGH, but it’s wrong. Guys don’t take it to make their muscles bigger and not stronger.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

It’s certainly possible that they signed Jorge Campillo to a minor league contract. Braves haven’t announced their minor-league free agent signings yet (including Borchard), but will in next few days.

Too late at night to check with anyone about the validity of a Jorge Campillo rumor. It’s Jorge Campillo, folks. He’s 29 and has a 7.13 ERA in eight games (one start) in a major league career spread over three season.

(Though he did have a decent season in Triple-A last year)

By Lew

December 12, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this

Robdawg-Yes, the Dawgs got shafted, for sure. Enough to stress anyone out.

DOB-I understand on the HGH use, but like you say, it occurs naturally in the human body and they can’t come up with a way to tell which is which. However, that notwithstanding, I think they are aware and doing what they can. Years late, admittedly, but then again, I have a few gray hairs (and many missing) that wouldn’t mind turning the clock back. Too bad it ain’t gonna happen.

Night all. We’re do another 3-5” of snow tonight and they say something significant is coming in over the weekend. Good thing I’ve got a pretty fair supply of liquified dinosaurs in the tank and the furnace still works.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 12, 2007 1:42 AM | Link to this

OK , here is my hit list.

1.Javy Lopez

2.Albert Belle

3.Len Dykstra

4.Marcus Giles

5.Brady Anderson

6.Sammy Sosa

7.Juan Gonzalez

8.Adrian Beltre

9.Larry Walker

10.Mike Piazza

It will be interesting to find out how many will or won’t show up on the Mitchell report.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 12, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this

Here is the skinny on Jorge Campillo.

Assets Though, not overpowering, Campillo mixes things up with four good pitches and changes speeds effectively.

Flaws Though his soft stuff worked in Mexico, he may have trouble fooling big-league hitters.

Career potential At best, a decent back-end starter or middle reliever.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

December 12, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

McFann: Never thought you were mad. Didn’t mean for it to sound like a retort, just a response. Don’t know if I can be much help with the academic info on McCann. I didn’t know him really well because I was two years ahead of him. I was, however, pretty good friends with his older brother Brad. He’s currently playing for the Wilmington Blue Rocks in the ‘Advanced A’ Carolina League. The Royals are their parent club. My current girlfriend was Brian’s lab partner in physics though, and she said she always let him cheat off of her. So I guess you could say Physics wasn’t his strong-suit, but that’s about all the insight I can give you… Oh, he was pretty good at baseball…

By Col Dave

December 12, 2007 3:40 AM | Link to this

DOB: Quick question: Did the Braves ever post their compensation for Langerhans? It was for a player to be named later and I never caught that person or the cash paid by Oakland. Thanks for the info, I depend upon you for news while living overseas.

By Scott

December 12, 2007 4:52 AM | Link to this

That’s crazy that the last blog went over 1,000 posts. Has that happen before and Dave do you get a raise if it does? Gagne getting 10 million is the most insane crap I’ve ever heard and Andruw getting ripped already in the LA times is funny.

By Braveheart

December 12, 2007 7:50 AM | Link to this

robdawg Canseco should be commended? Really? For what? For introducing Rafael Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, and Ivan Rodriguez to steroids and teaching them how to use it? Come on. Don’t be ridiculous. Canseco deserves zero credit for outing people in that book. Canseco was just a spiteful little woman with the way he went about things with that book. You wanna congratulate him for breaking the code of silence of players?

Dude, Canseco was not Serpico. Canseco was Sammy “The Bull” Gravano.

There was nothing honorable about what Canseco did. When Serpico took down the blue wall, he could do so and be commended with Al Pacino playing him in a movie because he was a clean cop and had been an honest man all along. No one commends Sammy the Bull for taking down Gotti and they shouldn’t. Sammy the Bull killed 19 people.

Baseball was better off for what Canseco did but that man should not be thought of in a good light by anyone. He was the dirtiest of the dirtiest. He was the godfather of roids. Only when he got himself “blackballed”, did he start acting like a jilted lover who wanted to destroy Mark McGwire. Just like Bonds started using steroids because dirtbags like McGwire and Sosa were and Bonds could not stand having them thought of as better players, Canseco outed McGwire and the others because he could not stand having them thought of in a better light than he.

There was nothing honorable about what Canseco did. It was just his pride being hurt. Dude’s an egomaniac.

And another thing Jose. You were not blackballed. You absolutely stunk for the last 6, 7 years of your career and were a cancer in the clubhouses and no one wanted your act or your terrible play around anymore.

By Mackey Sasser

December 12, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

MetroMan,

I thought you had done us all a favor and gone away. Guess not. Thus, let me be the first to invite you to take your sour grapes and go back under your rock. In fact, don’t come back until you’re ready to post a 1,000 word essay on the shame of watching your team CHOKE down the stretch this year. Chumper indeed. You are pitiful.

By Anders

December 12, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Braveheart Awesome 7:50 post. The Sammy The Bull versus Serpico comparison is excellent. I never thought of it that way but you’re right.

By Anders

December 12, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Coach As a Met fan I always suspected Piazza and I will not be suprised if his name comes up. Some others you didn’t have that I think will be on there.

Bagwell, Biggio (Ken Caminiti’s buddies)Plus Bagwell got huge over time. If Dykstra makes the list his pusher friend Darren Daulton will need to be on there too. Randy Meyers - we could go on and on. I’m a believer that 70% dabbled in this stuff at some point. Some more than others. Too powerful for 25 year old guys to turn their backs on.

By Jim Staudt

December 12, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

I stopped watching ESPN because of Stuart Scott. He’s easily the most annoying sportscaster I’ve ever heard.

By robdawg06

December 12, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

DAP, the difference is Smoltz homeruns 1 per 11 innings is insignifigant because its only 1 run thru the course of a game (maybe 2 or 3 if men were on base). But Yates comes into tight ballgames late in games to pitch one inning effectively. If he gives up a homerun Braves likely lose. His one homerun is magnified much more than Smoltz one homerun. Ya get it ?

From what I’ve been reading from what might surface from the Mitchell report there may be recourse for punishment for these players identified.

Canseco was the sole reason this investigation happened. Its true he was a heavy steroids user but it always takes one of the bad guys to turn on the other bad guys to get caught. Just like when the guys at Vick’s house got caught fighting dogs it linked Vick to it too. Otherwise Vick doesn’t get caught. You form your opinion of Canseco and I’ll form mine. He was a great hitter for the A’s for the same steroidal reason McGwire,Bonds,Sosa,and others were great hitters. Palmeiro denied using steroids during the trial and two weeks later tested positive and was released. He should be tried for perjury as well. McGwire answered “I want to focus on the future not the past” to every question about steroids. He should be tried for moronic stupidity…

By robdawg06

December 12, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

I think Mike Schmidt might have used steroids. He was definitely more cut and bigger than most that played in the early to late 80’s. He may have been the “grandaddy” that started the roids usage ? Then you think about Gorman Thomas with the Brewers and Greg Luzinski with the White Sox…

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Col Dave, no they didn’t. I asked at least three times (once this offseason), and the answer was, “Let me check with (so and so) and get back to you.” It was either a very insignificant player (minor league filler) or an insignificant amount of cash, I can assure you that much. If it’s money, they’re not going to say how much it was, and that’s not something that gets leaked the way most bigger stuff is.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, I second the commendation of your 7:50 post. You said it better than anyone I’ve seen writing about Canseco over the years has put it. Very good comparison.

By robdawg06

December 12, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Here’s my list of steroids users : Already known : Bonds,Giambi,McGwire,Sosa,Palmeiro,Grimsley,J.Armstrong,Caminiti.

My suspect list : C.Fielder,J.Gonzalez,M.Piazza,J.Lopez,B.Anderson,L.Gonzalez,J.Bagwell,I.Rodriguez,D.Ortiz,M.Ramirez,R.Clemens.

Oldies suspect list : M.Schmidt,G.Thomas,G.Luzinski,D.Strawberry,D.Gooden,S.Garvey,R.Cey,J.Rice.

By Anders

December 12, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Robdawg I’ve never heard any of those guys names attached to steroids. Hate to think that of Schmidt. I’ve always liked him. That guy had game. That snap swing. I’ve always compared Jeff Kent to him with less power. Same short compact late explosion. Kent was more of a gap hitter though with his power to right center. A HOF’er in my book BTW. If Mazeroski’s in at 2nd, Kent Moonwalks in.

By robdawg06

December 12, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

I disagree. In both the Sammy The Bull and Canseco deals (respectively) the crimes would have continued in both if they had not ratted out their compadres. They both deserve the same punishment as their compadres but both deserve credit for bringing the crimes to light.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

robdoawg06 yeah, man i get that point, but i still cant see why you think 6 homeruns in 66 innings means he gives up alot of homers. he just doesnt. sure, the homerun is a bigger deal if its a close game, but sometimes he pitches when it isnt a close game to.

so yates goes 10 appearances without giving up a homerun, then he does give one up. then he goes ten more before giving another homerun up. youre really gonna get on him for that? thats pretty fickle of you.

if a reliever can average out the same number of HR per 9 as john smoltz, i dont see how you can fault them.

by the way, soriano, our closer for ‘08 gave up twice as many homers as yates in about the same number of IP. you didnt say anything about him.

By David-ATL14

December 12, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

I want to second “DOB tip of the cap to Lew”. Canseco to be lauded only in the foolish world bereft of intellect that Robodawg resides in.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 12, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

I seriously doubt that Mike Schmidt would come up. The Mitchell report doesn’t go back that far. Schmidt retired in 1989 , the steroid era is thought to have started in the mid 1990’s.

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Are we going to learn anything new from the Mitchell Report?

The only reason it was done was to keep the government off of MLB’s back and to attempt to save Selig’s legacy concerning PEDs.

And I don’t see what naming names is going to do. Does anyone really believe that there are players out there who aren’t on the list but who did not use PEDs?

What baseball needs to do—players and owners—is come out and say “we screwed up” (especially the players) and say going forward we are going to do all we can to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Are we going to learn anything new from the Mitchell Report?

The only reason it was done was to keep the government off of MLB’s back and to attempt to save Selig’s legacy concerning PEDs.

And I don’t see what naming names is going to do. Does anyone really believe that there are players out there who aren’t on the list but who did not use PEDs?

What baseball needs to do—players and owners—is come out and say “we screwed up” (especially the players) and say going forward we are going to do all we can to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

However that will never happen because there is too much pride, and each side wants to take the attention off themselves and point the finger at what the other side did wrong.

By 22oz

December 12, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

The Mitchell investigation received very little cooperation from the players union, so i would expect very little information that is considered “shocking.” I could be wrong, but i’m not expecting much. I certainly don’t expect Chipper as someone earlier suggested. He was more ripped in 99’ because that was when he was in his prime years.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

The Horacio-for-Soriano trade already was one-sided in Braves favor, but could look even more that way after today. This from the News Tribune up in Seattle (by the way, not sure if Braves are interested in Broussard, but could be):

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM THE STORY, NOT MY WORDS (I’m having trouble getting it italicized, is the reason I point this out):

• The future of three Seattle Mariners first baseman/outfielder Ben Broussard and left-handed pitchers Horacio Ramirez and John Parrish will be determined today when the team decides whether to offer them 2008 contracts.

The decisions will impact the Mariners’ roster and payroll, since those players made a combined $6.8 million last season.

By nontendering a contract, the team would end its relationship with the player and make him a free agent. Teams across the majors are facing the same scenarios today, and few of the decisions are simple.

One for the Mariners is simple. Parrish, the 30-year-old reliever obtained in August from Baltimore, will not be asked to return. In eight appearances covering 10 innings with Seattle, Parrish allowed 22 hits and four walks, finishing his season with a 6.97 ERA.

If Parrish is an easy call, Broussard and Ramirez are not.

Obtained a year ago in a trade that sent pitcher Rafael Soriano to Atlanta, the 28-year-old Ramirez went 8-7 last season despite a 7.16 ERA, and was eventually dropped from the rotation by manager John McLaren.

Since then, however, the Mariners have hired a new pitching coach, Mel Stottlemyre, and the team believes he might be able to help Ramirez. The question facing the organization is whether Ramirez can pitch effectively.

His major league career record is 38-29, but his lifetime ERA is 4.61.

Given his 2007 salary of $2.65 million, Ramirez likely would command $3 million next season. Giving up on Ramirez would make Bill Bavasi’s trade for him a failure.

As for Broussard, other teams have expressed interest in him but haven’t made serious trade offers because they believe Seattle will nontender him today.

Playing almost entirely off the bench last season, Broussard batted .275 with seven home runs and 29 RBI, and if the Mariners let him go, they’ll almost certainly need to acquire a similar left-handed hitter for their bench. *

By Wayne in Utah

December 12, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Just a thought on the Mitchell report. I suspect some of the names that come out are going to be those we all say: “Yeah, I knew that guy was juicing>”

BUT, I also believe we are going to be surprised at some of the other names that come out, players that got juiced to just make the majors, or to continue to hang on. Also, we don’t hear many folks talking about pitchers, but with the plethora of injuried in the past 10 years, I think we will be surprised to see as many of the names be those of pitchers.

My two cents….

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

David-ATL14, I have no idea if Canseco was lauded by Robodawg. It seems that he is. I think our society largely has this foolish idea that if you do something wrong but admit to it, the wrongdoing shouldn’t be punished as severely. I guess there are people out there who confuse admittance with repentance. Those people don’t think to ask, would they be so willing to admit wrongdoing if there wasn’t something in it for them?

By ncgary

December 12, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

The Cubs had acquired Infante, 25, on Nov. 12 from Detroit for outfielder Jacque Jones, and was expected to be used as a backup infielder for the Braves. That was the role the Cubs had projected. He provided some flexibility so Hendry could make the move. “It’s no secret that [Cubs manager Lou Piniella] likes players who can play more than one spot, and the appeal of Infante is that he could play shortstop, second, and all three outfield spots,” Hendry said. “Our people felt that he was an above average center fielder, too.” That job could be handled by Ronny Cedeno, who has played shortstop and second, and been asked to play center field this winter. http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&contentid=2317020&vkey=newschc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Ohman, 30, who has been in the Chicago system since 1998 and been slowed by injuries, was 2-4 with a 4.95 ERA in 56 games with the Cubs, and also had a brief stint in August at Triple-A Iowa. “He had a rough year last year,” Cox said of the lefty. “I’ve seen him enough where I think he pitched real well.” Ohman served up six runs on 11 hits and three walks over six innings in 10 games after the All-Star break, and was demoted. He then revealed that his shoulder has been “barking” for awhile. The injury was a surprise to the Cubs, and the revelation did not sit well with some personnel. Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said that incident had nothing to do with the trade. “Will came back and handled himself well,” Hendry said. “I think he rectified the situation in good fashion. We had Will 10 years. Everybody has good days and bad. Will’s a good Major League pitcher. The Atlanta Braves are very intelligent people with one of the finest managers who ever stepped in the dugout. What [general manager] Frank Wren pointed out was that Will’s numbers were much better outside of Wrigley Field. They felt it was worth a shot.” The move leaves the Cubs with Scott Eyre, Neal Cotts and Carmen Pignatiello as lefty candidates for the bullpen.

By Braveheart

December 12, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

I hate to speculate on Mike Schmidt because that was so long ago and he will never be mentioned in a Mitchell report list. But I did hear an interview he did with Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN about a year or two ago. They asked him questions about steroids. I think he said it was not really around when he was playing.

But he also said that if he was playing today, being the competitor that he is, he believes he would have had a strong temptation to give in and use them. I think you can go to ITunes and find the interview if you care enough. I thought that was a good answer.

If baseball was not gonna regulate the roids and HGH, it must have been hard as hell for a competitor not to be tempted or to give in. What sense would it have made to cost yourself millions and millions of dollars?

But I guess if you are someone who suspects Schmidt of being a user, you think that answer is similar to OJ saying I didn’t kill Nicole but if I did, this is how I would have done it or excused it.

By BabyGoatEater

December 12, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Once again a one sided trade by JS. I just can’t believe how many of these type trades (completely one-sided) he has acomplished throughout his tenure, AND PEOPLE STILL TRADED WITH HIM!!!! Don’t you think at some point those other GM’s had to doubt the Braves willingness to let a player go?

By Lew

December 12, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Robdawg-Dude, righteous indignation and an abiding dislike of what you call “moronic” stupidity are all fine and well, but there comes a point when their continued exercise is pointless.

There’s several points you need to realize.

1.Several of the players you mention, eg. Schmidt and Luzinski, have been out of the game for so long that steroids may not have even been illegal on a Federal basis when they played. Remember, even Ecstasy and LSD were once legal. No ex post facto in the law. Sorry.

2.Most of those mentioned-even if up to their necks in the juice-have likely passed any Federal statute of limitations-you’re not allowed to go after many crimes other than murder for an extended length of time.

3.You’re railing against a practice that you think was rampant (up to 80% you say) and was widely condoned, if not truly embraced by both sides of the equation-more than enough blame to go around. When a situation is so widespread (look at Prohibition and drinking at that time), there is damn little you can do about it.

1. Moronic stupidity is not a punishable offense and you can’t be incarcerated for it. Otherwise, the jails would be jammed even fuller than they already are. I fear we are all practitioners of said moronic stupidity at one time or another.

Dude, at this point in time, you will never uncover the entire problem. How can you? There was no testing until a few years ago. You just can’t go on the word of people like Canseco (who definitely had an agenda of his own) or Curt Schilling (who runs his mouth continuously and doesn’t always have much to say). Without the direct proof of testing or shipping records definitely linking a player to the receipt, thereof, there ain’t a single thing that can be done. Even tacit admission by a player can not be prosecuted, anymore than me admitting to recreational drug use 30 something years ago (or yesterday, for that matter) is grounds for bringing a person to trial.

Now, as for the Senate hearings-at the risk of seeming political here- do you actually believe, given the way that Congress ordinarily operates, that this entire Steroid Investigation was anything more than their attempt to obfuscate the really important items on their agenda, which they continually don’t deal with? As for the Mitchell investigation-do you seriously believe that it was anything other than a CYA attempt by the ML powers that be, after Congress pounded their chests and yelled at Bud Light? From what I hear, not cooperating was refined to an art form in his investigation.

Look, I can understand your anger (to a point). However, when all is said and done, nothing will be or can be done about unprovable (for the most part) allegations, speculation and innuendo. We will never know the full extent of the situation or the identities of all the offending parties. It is time to come to the realization that the new testing guidelines and their penalties are the only thing that can or will be done to remedy the whole situation and to attempt to avoid it’s return in the future. Maybe you should just find a batting cage or a driving range (or get a bike like DOB or draw pictures like I do) to release all this pent up anger. It is just not healthy.

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, I won’t be surprised by absolutely any name. I’m sure there are innocent players out there but no name that comes up will ever surprise me.

As far as pitchers, you are absolutely right. I think they may have the most to gain from PEDs because of the injury risks and the requirement to be fresh enough to throw roughly 80-100 pitches a week.

By Anders

December 12, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB I didn’t realize Stottlemeyer was back in baseball. Good for him. He’s a real nice guy who you never hear a bad word about and he’s been successful wherever he’s been. The Yanks haven’t been the same since he left.

By Todd

December 12, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

This may have been mentioned or maybe nobody cares, but it is mentioned in the blog that Hampton was traded to the Braves in a three way trade with FLA. This isn’t true. The Rockies traded Hampton and Juan Pierre for Charles Johnson, Preston Wilson, Vic Darensbourg and Pablo Ozuna and then two days later, the Marlins flipped Hampton to the Braves for Tim Spooneybarger and minor leaguer Ryan Baker. They were separate transactions that happened two days apart, not a three way deal…

By TrueBlueBravesFan

December 12, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Here’s my suspected roid/HGH users - unproven unblamed:

M. Piazza J. Lopez B. Anderson G. Sheffield R. Gant A. Gallarraga R. Clemons D. Daulton J. Bagwell C. Biggio R. Alomar V. Castilla L. Gonzales S. Finley J. Franco - Still Love the guy though D. Bichete M. Vaughn B. Bonilla J. Gonzales S. Sosa B. Wagner H. Johnson Most of the 93 Phillies M. Tejada K. Griffey Jr R. Dibble R. Myers W. Clark M. Stairs B. Boone L. Smith J. Rocker M. Hampton A. Beltre

I’m sure theres more but that’s my start.

By Anders

December 12, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

LEW I liken this whole Mitchell affair to the drug dealing investigation of the “We Are Family ” Pirates locker room in the late 70’s and early 80’s (Where non players were inside the room dealing -sound familiar?). I’m sure those on the inside back then, MGT included, had a sense something was going on there but turned a blind eye to it(sound familiar again?). Once word spread to the general public, baseball - through legal channels, outed several guys regarding their drug use and where they bought it including Keith Hernandez and Willie Stargell to some degree (The co MVP’s of 1979 - what could be worse for MLB? Oh yeah - The coveted all time HR mark being broken by a cheater). Some guys were embarrassed, others ostracized somewhat(Hernandez was banished to the Mets-That’s worse than Vicks punishment!) and baseball had drawn a line in the sand that they would deal with these drug issues. They weren’t perfect at it but it did get better. I expect the same here with steroids. This gives baseball a chance to get it out in the light of day legally, leave what’s happened behind them and move on. The records that were broken by some supposed offenders will always be disputed. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle on that. Baseball will just ride that out and hope those records are re-broken by other non-tainted players in the future. Selig does not want to leave the game having not dealt with steroids publically at all so he’s at least bringing it to the surface which is all he can do.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

The Atlanta Braves are very intelligent people with one of the finest managers who ever stepped in the dugout.

i hope robert didnt hear that…

By Lew

December 12, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Anders-Don’t know if this makes today monumental or memorable, but I, for once, totally agree with you. Mel Stottlemeyer IS one of the best pitching coaches out there and, as you say, a good guy.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

I hope to see 3 names on the Mitchell report:

1) Derek Jeter

2) Roger Clemens

3) Bud Selig (that would be awesome!)

No, but in all seriousness, how sweet would it be to see Derek Jeter and Roger Clemens on that list?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

TrueBravesFan, I can agree with you about most of the names on your list except Darren Daulton and Ken Griffey Jr. First of all, have you seen Darren Daulton. If he was using the crap it didn’t help that gut. As for Griffey, I just don’t think so. His body has pretty much stayed the same throughout his career. Also, way too many people have said Griffey was lazy and didn’t care about workouts or conditioning and that is why he has had some injury trouble thelast few years. Its not like you can take roids or HGH and just let it “work its magic”. You have to workout and do it dilligently. Look at any of the guys who have been caught and they all have on thing in common (besides big heads). They are all workout addicts. So, I would be very surprised if Griffey’s name is on that list.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 12, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Honest Dave I did not just pull my comment on HGH out of my butt. Here is a link to one of many studies in the relationship of HGH to strength and conditioning. It is really the repetition and toning of muscles that allow for increased strength. HGH does allow for reduction in body fat and increase of lean muscle mass but does not really increase strength per see. Steroids on the other hand do allow for faster healing of body tissue and allows for the rapid build up of muscle mass which requires the constant tearing of the muscle tissue as opposed to toning muscles. The later would be someone like Hudson who works on repetition to tone his body not increase bulk.

I think the real answer is someone seeking the magic bullet and perhaps it is the combination of all the modern chemistry plus training that allows for people to archive an edge.

One name however I do not expect to see on the list is Bob Wickman. The only thing he was likely juiced on was Redman tobacco and Pabst’s Blue Ribbon beer.

By Lew

December 12, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

RJIB- I stood two feet away from and stared for years at billboards, of Daulton’s first wife, Lynn Austin-a former Hooter’s Girl in Clearwater and Playboy Playmate. That lady was a Babe-no doubt whatsoever. Gut or no gut, Darren Daulton certainly had SOMETHING going for him-at least for a while.

By Embizzel

December 12, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

DOB I saw that the Mets might be releaseing Johnny Estrada. What’s the possibility that the Braves might be interested. Since he’s had his playing time cut last year based on injuries, he might come at cheap price. Or will the injuries deterr the braves from looking at him as a possibility.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

when is the real list coming out?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

December 12, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB)

My rationale for Daulton is how his homerun’s jumped all of a sudden after his 91 season.

My rationale for Griffey is his freakish torn muscle injuries. This is a common symptom of HGH use especially because your muscle mass can’t be supported by the ligaments holding the muscle to the bone.

His injuries have just been freakish.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Lew, I hear you! lol

By Anders

December 12, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Darren Daulton and Larry Parrish. Poster boys for when steroids first entered baseball. Big guys that worked out already but got absolutely ripped in the second half of their careers. They found the juice in the gyms. (Baseball players didn’t work out much back then - just wathc ESPN classic for proof)From guys like that it spread to the Lenny Dykstra’s of the world who was a pipe cleaner on the Mets and became so muscle bound up top he couldn’t buckle his own belt after spending a couple of years with Daulton. Those two almost died together like Thelma and Louise in a cocaine induced sports car disaster if you recall.

By MGL

December 12, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Embizzel - I believe that Johhny was PO’d when the Braves traded him. Probably too expensive anyway.

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

TrueBlueBravesFan and Robert JIB, etc., why all the speculation today trying to guess who’s on “The List”? Honestly, would any name short of a bat boy surprise any of you? I’m pretty sure PED use was rampant and widespread over the last 15-20 years or so; so what is the Mitchell Report really going to add?

By Braveheart

December 12, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Well, since I ripped Loduca the other day and accused him of being a clubhouse cancer, it is only fair that I link this Tom Boswell article about the Loduca signing that has Tom Glavine saying quite the opposite of Loduca.

And since I am linking Boswell stuff, read this one by Boswell about Elijiah Dukes.

I don’t think Mr. Boswell likes Dukes very much.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

But, TrueBravesFan, the problem for me is that Griffey didn’t have large amounts of muscle mass. He has always just been a lean kind of guy. He never looked like Bonds or Giambi or Caminitti.

By Double J

December 12, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

the Astros have acquired Miguel Tejada for Luke Scott, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Dennis Sarfate, and Mike Costanzo

By Shaun

December 12, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best), what about Paul Byrd? He’s pretty lean.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Some of yours favorite AJC columnist is on Jim Rome’s radio show right now ripping Arthur Blank AND Michael Vick. He said Blank is an overbearing owner who thinks he knows everything and his belief that he is the smartest guy around is what caused him to hire Bobby Petrino in the first place. Apparently, some within the orginization was against the hiring of Petrino from day one.

He also said he thought Vick got off light and deserved a harsher sentence because he was a “liar”. Hmmm. Kind of blows apart that garbage spewed on here about Moore being a racist who always sides on the side of the black.

By N8

December 12, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Not sure that this blog is the right place to air this, but here goes….

I just heard Terrance Moore on the Jim Rome Show, and he was asked about the Vick situation, and the “Fried Chicken” comment that Blank made on MNF.

I have to say, I was pleasently surprised to hear him not only say that Blank meant NOTHING RACIAL with that comment, and that Vick’s case was NOT a matter of race, like so many think. He referred to Vick as a knucklehead who repeatedly made mistakes.

I never thought I would say this, but I totally agree with him.

Ouch. That stung a little bit. :-)

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you’re right. Of course, it has not been really proven that Byrd did it other than what he admitted to which according to Byrd was only for a few months.

Like you said, you can’t really be surprised at anybody’s name being on that list but I think some guys would be more of a shock than others.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Embizzell Ive liked Estrada, i think hes a good ball player. however, i dont think he is an upgrade over guys we have on the team (pena or sammons) offensively, maybe a little. but pana switch hits for average just like estrada, neither one have great power, and estrada is probably need bobby cox to pinch run for him. hes got to be one of the slowest guys in MLB.

basically i dont think estrada makes sense for the braves because he isnt an upgrade over what we have.

By OrlandoFan

December 12, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Don C., you think steroids gave Selig a fat head? That was pretty funny suggestion.

Others, we all have our ideas of some folks who could be on the list, but it really isn’t fair to anyone to speculate in public like this. Means the item can be linked in other places and a guy’s reputation can be trashed based on opinions and suggestions — some of them without even a hint of credence — on this blog. Be careful.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

the Nats have made some moves to become better. granted, the moves have to work like they plan. milledge and dukes have to contribute, but i think they are going to be a much better team in ‘08.

getting lo duca is a great move for them. hes a guy you can respect, and milledge and dukes need leaders like that. im very interested in the Nationals team. i think they are going to be a good story.

By 22oz

December 12, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

The REAL question is: Why are ya’ll listening to Jim Rome? There HAS to be something better on!

By cricket

December 12, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Yanks are paying pettitte 16 mil for 1 year. Is Glavin a great bargain or what ?

By richie

December 12, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, If Prioris non-tendered. Is there absolutely no chance we may take a look at him? It doesnt hurt to look at him. And I feel he can learn a lot from Smoltz. A pitcher is in mold. Hard throwing righty. Would be a great #4. What do you think?

By ssiscribe

December 12, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Top of the afternoon, denizens, on another wonderfully spring-like day in the big A, the former home of Michael Vick and Bobby Petrino.

(Just when you think it can’t get any worse for the most woebegone, star-crossed franchise in sports, the Falcons have hit two new rock bottoms … in two days! Freaking unbelievable).

Gotta run but, real quick, thanks to Orlando for his note regarding speculation. I’ve read with interest the names being tossed around on here. I have my suspected list, but as a courtesy to those I suspect, and since this is a public forum with unlimited exposure and viewership, I’m not going to post anything until I see the report (which will be posted on MLB.com sometime during or after Mitchell’s presser tomorrow afternoon, 2 p.m. Eastern).

Just be careful with the speculation is all I ask. I saw some names bounced out there this morning that, frankly, I would be stunned if they turned out to use PED.

Of course, Shaun makes a great point: Should any name be shocking to us at this point? Will be an interesting day tomorrow, for sure.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By DAP

December 12, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

just read the article about dukes. what a bad dude. no wonder nobody wanted him. Nats better hope it works out.

By Jeffrey

December 12, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

While we are throwing out names, how about Andy Phillips who was released by the Yankees? He plays 1st and 3rd so could be a good backup at both spots. He put some pretty good numbers up in spot duty. I believe he played in college at Alabama.

By Saltywoody

December 12, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Now that Tejada’s gone from the O’s, that’s got to mean some other players are available, right?

I wouldn’t even begin to retread the Bedard issue. But what about Brian Roberts? I know we have Kelly, and Roberts contract is a little higher, etc. But Roberts would be a great leadoff guy for us…I was thoroughly disappointed when we were in talks about him last off season and it didn’t happen.

I’ve got to assume we could pry him away from the O’s, assuming we offered Kelly as a low-cost alternative for them, and a few of our many outfield prospects?

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

What a strange trade for the Astros… I mean, sure it made them better for 2008, but do they really think they can compete for a World Series in the next two years? They have no closer, no setup man, no number 2, 3 or 5 starter (assuming Oswalt is #1 and Wandy Rodriguez is a #4). I mean sure, they have a shot at winning the central because it is so pathetic, but even with Tejada I still say they are worse than the Cubs and Brewers… All I can see this leading to is an Astros firesale after the 2008 season (Tejada, Berkman, Oswalt, Lee all on the trading block would be my guess, unless they win the division in ‘08)…

Sorry for talking so much about the Astros, but this trade is just really confusing to me…

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

22oz, Jim Rome is great! I would rather listen to him than big mouths like Limbaugh, O’Reilly, and Franken. Jim Rome is one of the best radio talk show hosts on radio!

By TennesseePaul

December 12, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

What baseball needs to do—players and owners—is come out and say “we screwed up” (especially the players) and say going forward we are going to do all we can to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

Isn’t that what’s going on? If MLB, the owners and players, were still trying to say “we did everything perfectly right and we aren’t changing a thing”, would there be a drug policy, suspensions, an investigation and so forth? Would this report exist? Sure, it came from outside pressure, but that doesn’t mean the game is still trying to deny the issue. It’s too late for the game to come clean on its own. That point has past. But don’t discount it’s attempts now simply because the impetus to address the issue came from outside.

The report will provide some level of closure and, at the least, a starting point to begin a more open dialogue on the subject. I personally don’t think it should be brushed aside as inconsequential. I have a feeling there will be names on there that were not previously linked. But whatever is on this report will be held as the official record of the era. So it is important and it should be focused on.
However, speculating a day early seems fruitless. Who’s going to be named, who isn’t. Why don’t we just wait a few hours and find out? Personally I’m more interested in finding out which teams had the most number of juicers on it. It’ll be more fodder for the talk. I’d love to see a lot of Mets listed. It’d make Conan O’Brien’s sketch all the more amusing:
In the year 2000: The umpires union goes on strike forcing baseball to adopt the honor system. Sticking to a strict regiment of cheating the Mets still manage to lose 120 games.

By ncscoots

December 12, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

But, SW, how does it make sense to replace KJ with Brian Roberts, who’s older, more expensive, under less club control, and has both a lower career OBP and lower career slugging? I mean, where’s the upside in THAT trade, LOL?

Roberts is a good solid ML player, but he’s not a team-changing player. He offers no significant offensive upgrade over Kelly, and his defense isn’t so superior as to tilt the deal. Don’t believe I’d pass on KJ’s upside for Roberts.

By Saltywoody

December 12, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Scoots

As I see it, Roberts is practiced at leading off. He’ll give you 50 more steals a year than Kelly will, which if you pair it with Escobar as a great contact hitter in the 2 hole, and then Tex/Chip behind him, that scores you a lot of runs.

Agree that Roberts is a little older than Kelly and that might be a little scary…but I’m not sure Kelly has that much more of an upside. Roberts still has some pop, will hit between .280-.300, and his speed and defense set him apart from his otherwise Kelly-similar numbers.

Plus, it sets the pace for your offense. If Kelly leads off, he’s not getting into scoring position on his own. Roberts does that for you and immediately inserts a disruptive force at the top of a potent lineup. In that regard, I DO see him as a game-changing force.

Though, I just looked at his contract and he’s around 5-6 million a year for the next two years…and that more than the Braves like to spend.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone

the ‘stros have backe as well who is a pretty good pitcher. hes a good #5 definetly. they will definetly have a subpar pitching staff, and an overrated offense. tejada aint all that, and while they still have some good bats, they dont have a prayer in the central. the cubs and the brewers are both WAY better than them in my opinion. st louis is at least AS good as them. the reds are pretty bad to, so i suspect the ‘stros and the reds will be fighting for last place. i think the astros management is terrible.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

DonC, I’ve said it a thousand times, but rebuilding plans don’t go over in good baseball markets with good revenue streams, and Houston is one of those markets. You don’t sell a three-year rebuilding plan to season-ticker holders in such markets, Atlanta included. You try to win now, this year, and do it without gutting your system for the future.

But you have to trade young players sometimes to win now. You just do. Even places like Kansas City realize you can’t boost attendance with young, rebuilding teams that have no stars in the lineup.

By Lew

December 12, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Nathan-I hear you, Dude, but you know what they say about even a broken clock being right twice a day. Apparently he’s not a complete-well, a completely wrong person.

Richie-I don’t know if you’re familiar with Dr. Mike Marshall, the ex Dodger super-reliever and Kinesiologist, but they guy is an expert in the way the body works for athletes. He said several years and several missed seasons ago that Prior would remain an injury waiting to happen until he changed his motion. He claimed his motion was causing his problems. Since then, as I mentioned, Prior has remained injured almost the entire time. Unless he changes the way he pitches, all he will be is another reason for those who scream about $$$$ wasted on Hampton to scream even louder. The guy is an injury and not a whole lot else. Why waste ANY money on him?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Anders, just curious, when you’re throwing around all your sweeping, irresponsible accusations, do you even think or care for a moment whether you have the facts even remotely accurate? Good thing you’re not working for the paper — we’d be sued for libel.

Dykstra and Daulton were never connected with cocaine — not possession of it, not under the influence of it, nothing — when Dykstra crashed the Benz with Daulton in the passenger seat. Dykstra was drunk at about twice the legal limit, but cocaine was never a part of the incident report or any accusations (well, except for your typica revisionist history).

Tell you what, maybe you could just stick to reckless accusations about steroid users, OK?

Or whatever. Just say whatever you want about anybody.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

For those who’ve asked (and there have been quite a few, actually) about who or what the Braves ended up getting from Oakland: I’m told by the Braves that no player was involved; they got cash.

And no, they won’t say how much, but you can bet it was insignificant, and by that I mean far below $1 million. If I’m way off base on that one, I’m sure someone with the team will let me know.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Richie, how would Prior make a good No. 4 when he’s made only 57 starts over the past three seasons? He was 1-6 with a 7.21 ERA in nine starts last season, even worse than Cormier, who the Braves just released. And Prior made 3.6 mill while doing that.

Who would you say should be pushed aside to create a spot in the rotation? Jurrjens? Reyes? Chuck, who’s had as many 11-win seasons in the past two years (two) as Prior has had in his five-year career?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

TrueBlue, you’ve earned the distinction of being the first person I know of to implicate Junior (Griffey) for using steroids or HGH.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody

i added up doubles, triples and stolen bases to see how many times players put them self into scoring position. (imperfect because does not account for SB where they stole third, were already in scoring position) i just thought it would be interesting.

roberts score was 97

johnson’s score was 45

for comparison, jose reyes score was 126

anywas, my point is, you are right. roberts would make a much better leadoff hitter than johnson. if you think about the future though, i think johnson is our future #3 or #5 hitter. hes clearly not really cut out for leadoff.

i think johnson is a better table clearer than table setter.

if we could get roberts for not much, id at least consider it. we dont have a true leadoff hitter.

By Erik

December 12, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, Don’t pay any attention to Robdawg’s music suggestions. Those bands are hideously awful.

I have to admit that my taste in music is probably a bit more eclectic than yours, but here’s my top 10 albums of 2007:

Of Montreal - Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer? Deerhoof - Friend Opportunity The Besnard Lakes - The Besnard Lakes are the Dark Horse Andrew Bird - Armchair Apocrypha Deerhunter - Cryptograms Animal Collective - Strawberry Jam Radiohead - In Rainbows White Williams - Smoke St. Vincent - Marry Me Panda Bear - Person Pitch

From what I’ve heard of your tastes, I think you might like The Besnard Lakes and Andrew Bird. Give them a spin if you haven’t already.

And I guess I should talk about baseball…

That Tejada trade? Ed Wade should be fired. What an awful move. He’s got to be one of the worst GMs in baseball- about tied with Brian Sabean.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Todd, you’re wrong about Hampton not being a three-way deal. Doesn’t matter how it’s recorded officially, how the paperwork was filed or whatever, it was a three-way deal in that the entire thing was arranged, every part dependent upon the others.

Marlins traded for him with the trade already worked out to send him along to Florida. If you don’t believe me, try to Google the stories that were written by me and writers in Florida and Colorado when the deal went down.

I’ll give you a couple I found in my own files:

Explaining the Hampton trade

By Tim Kurkjian, ESPN The Magazine

It was a most complicated trade. It involved the Braves, Rockies and Marlins, a pile of money, no-trade clauses, a player to be named later, approval from the commissioner and a tremendous amount of paperwork. “I feel like the club lawyer,” Rockies general manager Dan O’Dowd said breathlessly as he tried to finish the deal. Well, it’s finally done.

Here’s who got what:

The Braves

They got Mike Hampton. They will pay him $2 million in 2003, $2 million in 2004, $1.5 million in ‘05, $13.5 million in ‘06, $14.5 million in ‘07 and $15 million in ‘08. Now, they have to revive his career at age 30. In two years at Coors Field, he was horrible, he lost his release point, he lost the sink on his fastball, he lost his confidence and he was afraid to throw the ball over the plate. He made so many adjustments, he’d be 1.1 to the plate (that’s fast) on one pitch, 1.7 (that’s slow) the next.

“I’d take a chance on him in a minute,” said one American League manager. “I’m big on track records, and his is very good. Just get him out of Denver, and he’ll be very good.”

The Rockies

Mostly, they rid themselves of Hampton’s contract, which, not long ago, seemed un-tradable. That, in itself, is a victory. From the Marlins, the Rockies acquired a young infielder, Pablo Ozuna, left-handed reliever Vic Darensbourg, center fielder Preston Wilson and catcher Charles Johnson. The Wilson and Johnson contracts aren’t good — together they are owed $52 million — and neither player is particularly good. But Johnson can handle a pitching staff and has good character, and Wilson should hit some home runs at Coors, and has developing character.

Even with the short-term salary the Rockies are taking on, they are saving around $40 million long-term with the unloading of Hampton’s contract.

The Marlins

From Colorado, they got a young center fielder, Juan Pierre, who can hit and can run. From Atlanta, they got a young pitcher, Tim Spooneybarger, who has an above-average fastball and slider, a loose arm and a live body. He has a chance someday to be a top closer. They also got a player to be named later. And they unloaded Wilson and Johnson, who they thought could no longer help, cutting $52 million in salary liability.

In order to get all this, they had to take on $30 million of Hampton’s salary. They will pay him $9 million in 2003, $10 million in 2004 and $11 million in 2005. It seems odd to pay someone that much to not pitch for you, but it was the only way to get what they wanted, and get rid of what they didn’t want. And it was the only way to get this confusing deal done.

AND HERE’s ONE FROM MY FORMER PAPER:

Marlins pull double deal: Johnson, Wilson gone

By Juan C. Rodriguez and Mike Berardino, Sun-Sentinel

November 17, 2002

Having secured the blessing of Colorado Rockies pitcher Mike Hampton and Marlins catcher Charles Johnson, the two teams on Saturday completed a six-player transaction that is the centerpiece of a dizzying and dynamic financial undertaking.

The initial deal, which required Hampton and Johnson to waive blanket no-trade clauses, is a precursor to the Marlins shipping the left-handed starter to the Atlanta Braves for hard-throwing reliever Tim Spooneybarger and a mid-range prospect, industry sources said.

Upon completion of player physicals and approval from the commissioner’s office, the agreement with the Braves could be announced as early as today. In addition to Johnson, the Marlins sent the Rockies center fielder Preston Wilson, reliever Vic Darensbourg and infielder Pablo Ozuna.

Before the complicated transactions reached fruition about 5:30 p.m. on Saturday, there were considerable hurdles to overcome. In the end, the Marlins agreed to pay $38 million of Hampton’s remaining salary, and Hampton agreed to pay Johnson the $1 million relocation bonus in 2005 he was adamant about receiving.

By ncscoots

December 12, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

SW, DAP, I see why we disagree on Roberts. You guys think speed and stolen bases actually mean something offensively, and I don’t :-), or, at least, I don’t consider SB to be as offensively valuable as some.

But, fellas, we’ve had that discussion on the blog too many times to count, and I’m in no hurry to give it another life, LOL. We’ll just have to agree to disagree, if that’s OK with you!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 12, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

I just deleted a rant about drugs because I don’t think anyone really cares anymore. Just to let you know, I have seen a lot of drug related incidents as I was a paramedic (my other full time job) from 1979 until just two years ago when I was forced to retire from my main job due to a medical condition.

There are a lot of myths abound but reckless use of any substance often has a bad long term affect on the body. Not all people addicted to drugs are really addicts and not all “recreational user” are innocents.

Bad people can do good works and good people can do bad things.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Erik Marry Me Panda Bear? whats kind of sick stuff are you listening to? :-)

just messin. my musical tastes for the most part probably arent shared with hardly anyone on the blog. im currently enjoying the new mxpx cd. see what i mean?

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

I think Mr. Met is on roids. His head is at least as big as Barry’s.

By Erik

December 12, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

DAP:

Yeah, I was silly enough to think that my line breaks would be preserved.

Let’s try this again (I wish there were a “Preview” button):

Of Montreal - Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer?

Deerhoof - Friend Opportunity

The Besnard Lakes - The Besnard Lakes are the Dark Horse

Andrew Bird - Armchair Apocrypha

Deerhunter - Cryptograms

Animal Collective - Strawberry Jam

Radiohead - In Rainbows

White Williams - Smoke

St. Vincent - Marry Me

Panda Bear - Person Pitch

By DAP

December 12, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

scoots You guys think speed and stolen bases actually mean something offensively, and I don’t :-), or, at least, I don’t consider SB to be as offensively valuable as some.

thats fine, man. ive said many times that different offensive tools fit better in different spot in the batting order.

i believe leadoff hitter need to able to get on base and score on hits form the guys behind them…which means that speed helps, and being in scoring position helps.

and obviously you dont put a guy in the leadoff position ad say, “ok, run fast and get on base, thats your job.”

you find a guy that is already getting on base and runs well and say “ill put you at the top of the order…”

i know most of that doesnt have much to do with what you posted. just a random opine from me.

i should disagree with you more often, scoots. youre so nice about it.

By DAP

December 12, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

thats a relief, erik. i was wondering…why would anyone want to marry a panda bear? i know they are cute and stuff, but they’re actually quite fierce.

By Mark

December 12, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Fightin’ Phils just got worse….Giants signed Rowand to a 5 year deal…

By DAP

December 12, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

that make the giants a little better. but, i suspect rowand wont be as good of a hitter when he isnt surrounded by howard, utley, burrell and rollins. good news for the braves, either way.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Have to wonder if Rowand’s signing makes Dave Roberts expendable? And, if so, are the Braves going to be in on him? He would definitely fit that “stop gap” CF the Braves are looking for.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, you might be on to something: Mr. Met obviously had direct access to the clubhouse attendant. Hmmm….

By Todd

December 12, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the clarification…I should have known better anyway, knowing that both COL and FLA picked up significant portions of Hampton’s contract…was the delay in Hampton being a Brave solely due to paperwork and other negotiatons or something else going on?

By ncscoots

December 12, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

At least, we can lock away any Baldelli scenarios for a year. With both Young and Dukes traded away, the Rays’ OF surplus has been used up. Give them credit, though, they actually looked as if they had a plan in all those personnel moves…their fans by the Bay are probably still reeling in shock at the notion.

Thomas Boswell is an excellent writer, and I’m a fan, but I’m gonna disagree with his skills assessment of Dukes while agreeing with his character assessment. Dukes has zero chance to screw up and survive, but, on the straight and narrow, he has a chance to just be an absolute brute, IMO.

And the player happiest about the trade? Why, our old Muts buddy, Lastings. The Nats just traded for the only budding star with a trashier rep than he! Milledge is no longer at the center of the “character” hurricane, LOL.

By OrlandoFan

December 12, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

I’m glad you folks have stopped your mindless libel of a lot of athletes. I wrote it earlier and DOB followed up: It’s just wrong to throw out names. And it’s illegal to some extent.

By ObiWanKobe

December 12, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Jesca Hoop - Kismet

Radiohead - In Rainbows

Travis - The Boy With No Name

Jens Lekman - Night Falls Over Kaortedala

M.I.A. - Kala

Arcade Fire - Neon Bible

Feist - The Reminder

Wilco - Sky Blue Sky

Eleni Mandell - Miracle of Five

Rilo Kiley - Under the Blacklight

By McFann

December 12, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

CharlieAlphaBravo

I don’t know if you’re still around, but I saw your post. That didn’t surprise me. It was funny, though.

This is completely off the top of my head, but does anyone out there know which Braves player owned a Lamborghini?

By Saltywoody

December 12, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

DAP Agree. Kelly projects as a totally different player than Roberts is (i.e. not a leadoff guy). And I still hold that if it wouldn’t take much to get him, he’s worth the couple extra million. Though, I’m not sure we could fleece the O’s, considering what they just got for Tejada.

Thanks for putting those stats together…that’s really interesting. And certainly shows how valuable a guy like Reyes is in terms of interrupting the other team’s gameplan.

By TennesseePaul

December 12, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

and Hampton agreed to pay Johnson the $1 million relocation bonus in 2005 he was adamant about receiving

DOB: So Hampton was involved in a payout in this trade? I knew the 3 teams worked out contracts and who pays what, but I didn’t know a player being traded passed a million to a player he was being traded for. That’s gotta be a first if not the most rare river muscle on the planet.

By mo in the boonies

December 12, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

By uga-brave December 11, 2007 11:27 PM here is the solution to all of our problems. let arthur blank and liberty media swap teams

I’ll vote for that!

TenPaul I share your concerns about next season’s team. Would really have liked to have gotten a big league SP like Haren. Relying on Jurrgen as a starter is scary especially when he is described as a number 5 pitcher. I had hoped for more than a number 5 starter to shore up the rotation, incase either Smolze or someone else gets hurt. Glavine is what he is…but not enough.

Awaiting the Mitchell Report.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Hey, I wouldn’t overvalue that package the O’s got for Tejada. While they got a lot of prospects, I’m told that none of those guys is rated by most other clubs as a can’t-miss type of prospect. Lot of pretty good but not terrific prospects.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Andruw owns just about everything except a Lamborghini.

He’s got an Aston-Martin, a Maserati, a couple of Mercedes-Benz (an ultra-powerful and expensive McClaren and another one, too), Range Rover (wife drives that and a matching Aston-Martin). Those I know of, and he might have more by now.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

ObiWan, good story about Feist in latest Rolling Stone.

By Lew

December 12, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

It really doesn’t matter how much better a leadoff hitter than Kelly Johnson he is. Isn’t Yunel going to be our leadoff hitter?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Lew, I think Yunel will be the leadoff hitter with Kelly hitting #2 but that may not necessrily be the case. If Crisp or Dave Roberts is acquired I would think they would get the leadoff spot with Yunel #2. I even think Anderson or Blanco will be given a shot to leadoff. Johnson hitting down in the lineup makes the lineup that much more dangerous.

By Lew

December 12, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

I just read that Ike Turner died today at age 76. Now,I realize Ike was maybe not the nicest person to have graced a stage and had anger issues as was widely reported (even made a movie of it), but the man was a true rock and roll pioneer.

Ike was involved in the release of the first ever rock and roll record from Sun. It came out in 1951 and was called Rocket 88. It was released under the name of Jackie Brensten, Ike’s sax player, because Ike wa under contract to another label at the time.

I was lucky enough to see the Ike and Tina Turner Review in 1970 in Atlanta. It was another boring Friday night and with nothing else to do, a friend of mine and I went over to see them at the old Municipal Auditorium. Hardly anyone was there, so we just wandered around and ended up sitting on the equipment crates on the wing of stage left. I will certainly ever forget that show and am thrilled to this day that I was there.

Like I said-he had his issues, but the man was there when it all started and deserves, at the very least, to be remembered as one of Rock’s Founding Fathers. Tina may not mourn his passing, but all of us who love rock music owe the man a debt.

By Josh Peck

December 12, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

McFann, since we are talking about music, who do you like better, Hannah Montana or Drake Bell?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Yes, Lew, rock and roll lost a great legend. The world at large lost one crazy sob!

By Lew

December 12, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

RJIB-No doubt.

By CC Rider

December 12, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just saw Emil Brown was non-tendered by Kansas City. He knocked in over 80 runs in 2005 and 2006. He bats over .300 lifetime against lefthanders. I was thinking he had played a good deal of centerfield in his career. Could he be a platoon candidate with Anderson in centerfield?

By McFann

December 12, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

Josh Peck

Not a fan of Hannah. Never heard of the other guy.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 12, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

Well guys, just between you and I, I glad to see Rowan out of Philly. Does free up an outfielder from the Giants. Which one do ya’ll thing the Braves are going to pick up?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 12, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Oopps, can’t type… I am starting to omit words, time to close the lap top for the evening. Catch up with you folks tomorrow.

By flange1

December 12, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew,

What do you think about Rowand going to the Giants? From what I read Raji Davies might be available….

He could be help in CF for the Braves..

What do you think?

By TennesseePaul

December 12, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Isn’t Yunel going to be our leadoff hitter?

I thought this was what the stop gap centerfielder was supposed to do, but I guess the other option for the as-yet-to-be-named stop gap is the vaunted It doesn’t matter if he hits .222, he’ll be batting 8th point of view.

Yunel performed well in the lead off role though the team didn’t really light the place up when he was there. That probably had more to do with the fact that Renteria wasn’t hitting behind him. Kelly doesn’t appear to be the answer for replacing Renteria in the 2 hole either. His best work came in the lower spots in the order.
The team really doesn’t have a prime #2 hitter. Yunel is good for lead off and is a very smart base runner so he’ll keep the defense on its toes. Chipper and Tex are 3 and 4. I’d imagine McCann and Francoeur will fill out behind those two with Brandon Jones and the CF fighting over the 2 hole or 8th spot. However, if the stop gap is a good lead off hitter Yunel could move down to second putting Jones at 8th. That might not be a bad move. But it hinges on that new stop gap and if that guy is yet another rookie, it could get ugly fast.

1 Yunel
2 B Jones
3 C Jones
4 Teixeira
5 McCann
6 Francoeur
7 Kelly
8 Stop-Gap

Or

1 Stop Gap
2 Yunel
3 C Jones
4 Teixeira
5 McCann
6 Francoeur
7 Kelly
8 B Jones

Or

1 Yunel
2 Kelly
3 C Jones
4 Teixeira
5 McCann
6 Francoeur
7 B Jones
8 Stop-Gap

It’ll be interesting. Cox likes changing it up a lot and this is shaping up to be a roster that will have to be changed up a lot find the best fit because it isn’t readily apparent right now. And none of this includes the platoons…

By Kieran, Long Island Brave Fan

December 12, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

I love reading old Trade stories like that Tim Kurkjian one that was just posted. Great find there Dave. It’s fun to see the then present perspective years later on a wacky trade like that. I’d say all teams made out pretty well. Hampton did give the Braves a couple quality years and pitched well in the post season. We’ll see if tehres anything else they can squeeze out of that trade this year and next.

By Saltywoody

December 12, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

The Giants signing of Rowand bodes will for the Braves. Potentially, that makes either Randy Winn or Dave Roberts available, even despite claims from Sabean that he’ll play Roberts in left, Winn in right, and Rajai Davis will split time when he can.

Getting Rowand out of the NL East is a good thing, as is the potential for the Braves to land either of the other two guys, who would both fit the bill nicely as stopgap CF. Roberts would give you the speed at the top of the order that we’ve missed since Furcal, and Winn would give you a good contact/OBP guy. You get a good veteran presence and excellent clubhouse guy with either.

I really like that deal for the Giants, too. Rowand is a little bit brittle because he plays so hard and gets himself hurt in the process. But 5 years and 60 million for a guy who will consistently hit .300 w/ 25-30 homers and just under 100 RBIs is pretty good, especially in this market. Plus, Rowand’s only 30, so he’s probably going to remain healthy and productive throughout this contract (hopefully, anyway).

That said, the Giants are still awful. I love how ESPN projects Rowand to hit 5th. Behind who??? Bengie Molina? Ray Durham? Yikes…

By McFann

December 12, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

If ya wanna know who I like for music, I guess I’ll tell you. I like Amy Grant, the Carpenters, the Eagles, Gary Lewis, John Fogerty, Keith Urban…that kind of stuff. Oh, I like a few Montgomery Gentry and Lee Greenwood, too…Ok, got a couple LeAnn Rimes on my iPod.

By Saltywoody

December 12, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

10Paul Who is this Stop Gap guy you’re talking about? He seems to be factoring prominently in those lineups. Where’d we get him from? Waivers?

Is it a platoon between two guys named Stop and Gap?

By TennesseePaul

December 12, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

SaltyWood: Great question. Been wondering that myself. Apparently he’s good enough to trade Chuck James for even though a 6 man rotation is being kicked around.

By ObiWanKobe

December 12, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

Those were Top 10 albums of the year off the top of our heads lists

By McFann

December 12, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

It will be int’resting to see how the Braves’ line-up looks in ‘08. I, for one, like the idea of McCann hitting fifth. He did well there last year. Let’s see…

Batting fifth: .277, 11 HR, 21 2Bs, 50 RBIs, 44 Ks, 24 BBs (274 at-bats)

Batting sixth: .282, 2 HR, 6 2Bs, 8 RBIs, 10 Ks, 4 BBs (85 at-bats)

Batting seventh: .226, 4 HR, 4 2Bs, 21 RBIs, 13 Ks, 4 BBs (84 at-bats)

Batting fourth: .324, 0 HR, 6 2Bs 7 RBIs, 1 K, 1 BB (37 at-bats)

Batting eighth: .200, 1 HR, 0 2Bs 2 RBIs, 4 Ks, 0 BBs (10 at-bats)

Batting third: 0 for 4.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

By ncscoots

December 12, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

“Just when I thou