Braves

By wide right

December 3, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,

A George Jones wake up call…what tune?

i’m glad to see you didn’t write that Morton was a ‘bargaining chip’. It’s amazing how much stock I have put in him without seeing him…only reading about him in this blog.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Plus hundreds of rosy-cheeked young folks in ill-fitting suits or too-revealing dresses

That sounds like a meritage of success waiting to happen. I’m assuming the too-revealing dresses refer to the future Rachel Nicholses of the world?

By Anders

December 3, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

DOB Plus hundreds of rosy-cheeked young folks in ill-fitting suits or too-revealing dresses,

Too-revealing dresses? Is there such a thing? Somehow I don’t see this being the general writers consensus tonight after a number of cocktails in the bar - Have fun!

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

“too revealing dresses” … ?? is there such a thing? lol. Thanks for the blog. We thought we had a surplus of starters last year too. Didn’t work out so well. That said I like the rotation possibilities. I had hoped Glavine would not be our only addition but it is what it is. Looking forward to further reports.

By Lyn

December 3, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I live in the Nashville area and was just wondering if you’ve seen alot of baseball fans at the Opryland Hotel today? I know all of the team representatives are down here on business but I didn’t know if there was any fan interaction at all.

By JC FROM UT

December 3, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Has anyone considere Will Ohman of the Cubs? I read that late last season he was in Lou’s doghouse. I was hoping Cormier could get him before he was DFA. The Cubs also have Neal Cotts, who a couple years ago pitched quite well for the ChiSox.

By Jmart

December 3, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

I really think that the Braves could be set. Maybe some minor tweaking but if Wren does nothing else I believe that we have the players in place to win the division. I hope that they don’t go after a veteran center fielder. I watched some film on Anderson and he has the correct approach for a speedy, left side, lead off man. He hits the ball where it is pitched, primarily trying to go the other way (left field) to put more pressure on the left side of the infield, due to his speed. I believe that we have rookies in place to take over the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation. I would send James back to triple A to develope another pitch, or I would use him the way Oscar V. was used last year (couple of innings of long relief. James is typically pretty good against batters the first time they see him in a game. Perfect for Oscar’s role. With Pena, Branyon Jones, Thorman I believe that we have 1st base and the spare outfielder covered. I would start Schaeffer at triple A and if he starts well bring him up if Anderson or Diaz falter (Anderson can also play left field. If they can find another left hand for the bull pen without giving up too much or a power hitting utility man / pinch hitter that doesn’t require giving away too much I would consider those minor moves. If the Giants wanted Liilibridge and a reliever (Devine, Yates, Ascanio or even Bennet or Reyes) I would make that trade for Lincecum. It appears that the Mets are getting desparate. Desparation can lead to some poor judgement. We can only hope.

By Roman Gal

December 3, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Too-revealing dresses? Is there such a thing?

Boys, Boys. Women need to leave something for ya’lls imagination.

By Andy

December 3, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What do you anticipate will happen in 2009? Won’t we lose the contract of Smoltz, Glavine and Hudson? When is Chipper’s contract up? I’m just thinking that we keep complaining about money. We barely pay anything to our catcher, RF, 2b, ss and LF.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

too revealing dresses, huh? is that code for lisa guerrero has been spotted on the premises?

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Women need to learn they can pretend to be classy but at the same time be just as revealing in a very tight turtleneck.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

For the statheads amongst us, here is an article from Hardball Times that highlights why it is so important to have a rotation that goes 8 deep because “the average team gets nearly 25% of its starts from pitchers who don’t start the year in the rotation. Taking proper precautions to avoid disaster in those 30-40 starts can be just as important as making marginal improvements in the middle of your rotation.

By DonCoburleone

December 3, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

“We thought we had a surplus of starters last year too. Didn’t work out so well”

I second that!!! If we trade away a starter I’ll be p**, especially if it is for nothing but a LOOGY…

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

From the previous blog:

how many 17-20 year old kids are gonna be thinking ‘bout that? In fact its even worse than that. baseball is a sport that for the most part takes a lot of years of play to get proficient enough to even know whether you can think about a pro career, so those kids would have to be thinking long term at 8 or 10 or 12.

I’d disagree with this. Those players who are typically good have been playing their whole lives. Not so much for the thought of making big bucks, no matter the sport. When you’re 8 years old you’re playing because it’s fun, not because it’ll be a money maker when you’re in your late 20’s. I don’t think Football players do that, or bankers, dictators, oil drillers or anyone for that matter. When you’re a kid you do what is fun/interesting/what everyone else is doing. If the game of baseball isn’t fun to kids, that’s a whole different subject and has nothing to do with money.
To be clear, I’m not saying kids don’t dream of being a star in a given sport or vocation, but that they don’t wake up every morning for 5 am wind sprints and hitting drills so they can be the best ever, all while at the ripe young age of 8 years old. I don’t think I’ve ever met an 8 year old kid that focused on anything that far into the future.
Secondly, while baseball requires time to get ready, it is a sport you can play hard every day unlike football so you can gain skill at it swiftly enough. And as with most sports, you’ll know if you’re good by the time you get into high school. It’s as easy as looking around at everyone else and noticing you’re head and shoulders above them.
Convincing a kid to go into Baseball over other sports would be a toss up to a young man truly open to any one of the sports and skilled enough to excel in each one. If all else is equal in the young mans life when it pertains to skill and knowledge of the game, and the only choice is money, then it is up to the potential drafting teams to sale him on the game. Otherwise, it’s a matter of favorites. Do you like this game more than that game? Then perhaps that’s the game you should play.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal We gentlemen like to leave something to the ladies’ collective imaginations during first impressions, too.

It’s called “humility.”

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t mind seeing a package that included Diaz, James, and B. Pena or Prado for a centerfielder. Now, the question is what team to offer that too and what CF of course. That package would probably work for DeJesus but the Royals are probably a little gun shy considering the Davies trade and I think the Royals are hanging onto DeJesus until they see if they can sign Jose Guillen.

The Reds have Ryan Freel and Josh Hamilton but I don’t if that would be a good match. First of all, Freel is not worth that package. Hamilton is but the Reds are likely going to overvalue him. Besides, they would have no need for Prado and the thought of James starting in that ballpark is damn scary!

The Giants could be an interesting fit. I like Randy Winn and think he would be great in Atlanta. He’s a bit pricey but its not ridiculous. But, I don’t know if the Giants would really need James even though he would likely thrive in that park given its spacious dimentions. Prado could step in at 2B.

The Cardinals have Jim Edmonds but he is such a health risk and he is pricey. The Cards are unlikely to eat much if any of his contract.

The Pirates are interesting because of Nate McClouth. Chris Duffy isn’t even an option. The Pirates could use Prado at 2B but not sure if James would really have a spot in the roation with them.

A very interesting team to me is the Nationals. They now have a plethora of outfielders. It would seem to me the odd man out is Wily Mo Pena. He is relatively cheap. I actually think a deal of James and Prado could get that done. Pena can play CF and did a terrific job defensively for the Red Sox in ‘06. His bat can be erratic but that shouldn’t be that much of a concern if defense is truly the key. The Nats OF is set with Kearns, Milledge, and Dukes.

The Yankees have Melkey Cabrera and I think that package could intrigue them. But, they probably could get a better offer from somewhere else. If not, the Braves should do their best to get Cabrera.

We all know about the Red Sox and Crisp. This package isn’t even close to getting that deal done. The Sox are going to want too much I’m afraid.

The A’s have Mark Kotsay. Now, I actually think this package would be overpaying but could get it done. Diaz and James are both Beane’s type of players.

The Rangers have David Murphy, whom I like and think would be an excellent addition. This package would be overpaying a bit. A Diaz for Murphy straightup swap could work.

And finally the Angles have Chione Figgins. I don’t know if this package would be enough simply becuase other teams would offer better deals (even if they were overpaying ones).

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

The only thing that worries me about trading James is the age of our other starters, Hampton not included. I guess it really just makes you have to determine where John Smoltz is? Is he going to have to hit the DL again next season, probably. But……

I deal James if it can bring back some talent. Whether it is a CF or middle reliever, I’m not really sure.

I really think BC likes Jo Jo a lot, so maybe he thinks he can handle the 5th spot if Hampton can’t go, with Jurrjens taking the 4th spot.

By Don

December 3, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Dave, maybe a difference of opinion, but I have yet to resolve that Jurrgens, Bennett, Reyes, and James (and throw Hampton in there to) are “capable” starters. Too many question marks dealing with past ineffectiveness, inexperience, or both.

I see the intrigue in entering the season thinking that the Braves could have an adequate starting rotation with its existing pieces, but to me it’s too much of a hunch.

I would still really like to see an aggressive approach to acquiring another quality starter for the rotation not only for this year but for the next 3 +/- years. Glavine was a good signing but he still may very likely be a one year fix.

BTW, when is Hudson a free agent again?

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Don C , I sure don’t want any Mark Redman type solutions this year. If our “surplus falters this year,I’d rather bring up the Morton kid or someone else from in the system. All we did was throw money away on Redman. Speaking of throwing money away, I hope we can steer clear of such awful moves as throwing money at , C Wilson, Woodward, Tanyon Sturtze, etc , this year. For a club with a budget last year , we sure wasted several million on those duds.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

Here is Rotoworlds take of DOB’s post here. Oddly enough, it posted on their website like two seconds after DOB said a new blog was up…

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s David O’Brien believes the Braves could make Chuck James available in trade talks.

It’d make more sense if the Braves thought they could count on Mike Hampton. James was involved in rumors with the Rays last year, with Tampa Bay potentially giving up Rocco Baldelli. The Braves have a hole in center field now, but Baldelli, the Mike Hampton of outfielders, probably isn’t on their list of potential replacements. James would be a nice fit for a team in a big ballpark, like the Padres or Mariners.

By Don

December 3, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Andy, good message. Part of the answer. That human vacuum cleaner of money, dirt bag piece of garbage Hampton is sucking the Braves clean.

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Nice intro to the meetings, DOB. I look forward to hearing about your meeting later with Frank Wren. It would be nice to be surprised during these four days with a multi-player deal which might send, for example, James, Diaz, and a prospect for a Snell (type), lefty Marte (type), and maybe a back-up SS or season-ready CF.

I know most everyone is saying Braves now have plenty of starting pitchers. In my mine, it’s prudent to work on the assumption that there is no such thing, especially quality starting pitching. These guys are so vulnerable, and reeling in a Snell-type would ease the problem when the first one goes down. Remember starters 1-3 have been around the block almost endlessly and that doesn’t count the ever venerable/vulnerable Hampton.

Just saying it would be nice to be surprised along these lines.

By Shaun

December 3, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, good points. I think four-man rotations (and possibly stricter pitch counts) would be optimal to maximize the innings of your best starters but it’s also necessary to have a deep pitching staff with several extra guys that are capable of starting without destroying the team’s chances to win ball games.

By spoonful

December 3, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Hey, “Nashville Cats” was written by John Sebastian. Steve Earle covered the song, but not write it.

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

As I’m thinking the Smoltz, Hampton, and Glavine have won over 600 games, I wonder what the record is for 3 pitching teammates? They must be getting close?

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

I believe that we have the players in place to win the division

We should keep a running tally of who says this, accepts it and is excited still when the Braves are bounced from the playoffs in the first round because the team is built only for a division win and not for a World Title. At least 6 months of the summer will be fun. The first month of fall will be a different story.

If this were several years ago, I’d be just as thrilled as every other “take the division” fan. Keeping a streak alive is one thing, but winning it all is another. The streak is dead now. I’d like the team to aim for the top of the sport, not the division.

By Steamboat

December 3, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

While he’s certainly not “untouchable”, I don’t think we should rush to trade James. His first 2 years numbers are a matter of record. He needs to improve in a couple of areas - not giving up so many HR, and pitching (a little) deeper into games - but he’s the most proven pitcher we have under 32 years old. He’s a very adequate #4 or 5 starter, with potential to move up a spot, and is still very affordable.

I’ve never really understood folks who put more stock in Jo-Jo than in James. Reyes’ doesn’t have nearly the minor league resume’ that Chuck does; he did have a couple of nice starts, but I’m not convinced that he’s as good as James. Hey, I hope they all do well, but Reyes has a lot to prove still, to me.

Adirondack, the Pirates have said (for whatever it’s worth) that Snell, Gorzelanny and Maholm are not on the table (I’d love to have Snell too).

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 3, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

Too revealing???? WOW DOB. Did you ever get everyone’s attention with that one…… Feel free to expound upon that point. You may actually have to come out with your own DOB/MIB BBQ and swimsuit blog.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

As I’m thinking the Smoltz, Hampton, and Glavine have won over 600 games, I wonder what the record is for 3 pitching teammates? They must be getting close?

Adirondack Dave I don’t know what the record is but in 2007, the Yankees had Pettite, Mussina, and Clemens who have combined for 805 wins between the three of them.

By The Dude

December 3, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

Why not trade for a “Haren?” Yes we are overstocked with starting pitching right now, but, how many years does Smoltz and Glavin have in them. Glavin is no where near the pitcher he once was (still pretty good for an old man though) and Smoltzy is one pitch away from a career ending arm injury. Plus, Hampton is done. That leaves…well…let’s see…Hudson. We’ve got a great young 8 position players…let’s get some young stud arms to go with them.

By jeffery

December 3, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, am I to understand that Coco Crisp might be an opportunity? What are you opinions on this? Would it be a good match? As another mentioned “Nashville Cats ” wasn’t penned by Mr. Earle. Welcome to Nashville! I am an Atlantan that relocated to Nashville two years ago. I like it.Kinda like Atlanta was pre-Olympics boom. While on that subject, wouldn’t you consider it a shame the local city government couldn’t yet get approval for a Stadium to replace the old Greer for our Nashville OSunds Brewers farm affiliate? I , a long time Braves fan that has had to get into local ball here,think Nashville may have missed a chance to have the Brewers relocate here if they had built the proposed ball field downtown. I know this is Braves column but it is baseball related and the Sounds are actually a great team with an excellent manager.And without my season Braves tix I am a Sounds transplant.

By HMMMMMs

December 3, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Nashville Cats first showed up in 1966 on the “Hums of the lovin spoonful” Kama sutra Records, and was written by Mr. John B Sebastian. Same year the braves showed up in town! I need a life!

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

I still hold to the fact that we should trade Thorman and Hampton to General Mills for Count Chocula, Sugar Bear, and Captain Crunch…who will fit right in when we get Coco Crisp from the Sox.

By chip

December 3, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

I lived and worked in Nashville, and have attended more conferences at the Grand Ole Opry Convention Center than I care to remember. A couple tips: The food at the steak place is expensive but good. The beer, the food, and the Celtic music at the Irish bar (across from the sports bar) is the best in the place.

So let’s grade the Braves. Tell me if I’m close, DOB…

1B: A 2B: C+ (maybe a B-) 3B: A- (injuries) SS: B LF: C CF: ? (you figure no better than C-) RF: B C: B Backups: D SP: A- (with Glavine) RP: C-

The lessons if I’m right? Improve the outfield, find a quality backup infielder, and invest in some relief pitching.

How close am I?

By Thirsty Horse

December 3, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

RACE discussions don’t belong on a baseball blog

Bunch of denizens talking race again. Left, left, left, left, white, black, race, race, race, race black, race white, race, on and on and on. I’m tired of all this controversial Nascar talk. All those guys do is take left hand turns all day long. What kind of sport is that anyway? Turn left, press gas pedal, turn, uh, left, push gas pedal, turn, uh, left, another left, race race race.

Please give the black and white checkered flag to someone and lets get back to baseball, BBQ, music and whatever. Just no more Nascar please. Sheesh.

By DonCoburleone

December 3, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

LOL, DOB you made MLBTR!.

Tim seems to agree with most on this blog that you simply can NEVER have enough starting pitching…

By Bo

December 3, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Braveheart—Agree,You can never have enough pitchers and what are you going to do when the big 3 we have now are gone? Offense according to Bobby is good enough? I don’t think so. Ask Smoltz if we have enough offense. They never get him any runs etc. WE Need another Starter, Lrp,and CF. What about Ryan Doumit as back-up catcher 1b and cf. for the bench? DOB keep up the blog.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Just got back from Wren’s suite. He gave Bowman and I some insight into their talks, etc.

I’ve got to write a quick story for the paper, then I’ll come back and fill you in. For now, I’ll tell you I asked point-blank about possibly trading Chuck or one of the pitchers, and Wren made it clear they would do it if it could help the ballclub in another area.

He said starting pitcher and overall depth of their minor league system were two areas of strength where they could make a trade from. He said they could deal a young player or two in their minor league system without making a big dent in the organization.

I also asked about Thorman, and Wren was very upbeat, positive about him. Said he has a lot of backers in the organization who believe Thorman will bounce back and have a good year, guys who’ve seen him too good in the minors to not believe he’ll be successful in the majors. And also said he (Wren) was one of those backers….

Good point on the revealing dresses, several of you…

And the song … after Steiner asks me today, I still put Steve Earle’s name on it. I guess ‘cause that’s the version I’m familiar with, not the Lovin’ Spoonful’s version.

By soup du jour

December 3, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Dave

Sorry to put you through the Spanish Inquisition, but I was wondering about your comments about the starting pitching. When Wren says we’re ‘done’, does he mean that he’ll be duely diligent in kicking the tires about potential deals for starters to see what it would take (Haren and Bedard come to mind)? Or does he mean that we will no inquire about starting pitching, even if they fall in our laps? Just trying to get a better feel for what is meant vs. what is said.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Chip, I’d say you’re pretty close on the grades, so far. But can’t grade CF yet, obviously. Or the bench. But pretty close, nonetheless.

I’d give bullpen a better grade, maybe a B- if they get a decent lefty, but at least a C+.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

Andy, I’m concentrating on 2008 now, not 2009.

But someone asked about Hudson’s contract: he’s signed for $13 mill in 2008, $13 mill in 2009, and has an option for 2010 worth $13 mill if he pitches 200 innings in 2009, $12 million if he doesn’t, with a $1 mill buyout.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Also, I should say Wren has slightly changed his attitude about these meetings, and by that I mean he said the team would like to get some things done here rather than wait, because he senses that a lot of teams are ready to move on some players.

He said they have 12-13 guys on their board for the four needs (including backup catcher along with lefty reliever, backup SS, and CF) and he wouldn’t want to leave here without doing anything if most of those guys are off the board (signed or traded to other teams) during the meetings.

That said, he still said there’s no real urgency, other than they don’t want to miss out on guys they’ve targeted.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

Very quickly, can someone explain to me what Bowman’s role is?

Is he MLB’s Braves reporter? Do I understand that correctly?

By Alan

December 3, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Funny, DOB, that you began the blog with speculation about which team will sign Andruw Jones, and I don’t believe one person has commented on that. It’s as though the guy never existed. I agree that the Dodgers are the best bet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if all of the NL West teams (particularly Giants and Padres) take shots at him. If/when Aaron Rowand bolts Philadelphia for Chicago, the Phillies may turn Andruw’s way, too. All Boras needs are two teams to get in a bidding war, and Andruw’s stock will skyrocket. Speaking of bidding wars, what’s going on with Johan Santana? Will he be going to New York or Boston?

By bruce

December 3, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

So I guess Thorman’s stock/trading price just went up… Frank Wren making him appear more valuable at key time.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

Any idea who those 12-13 guys are that are on the board?

Or is that classified information?

Or is there a big board with their names on it in Wren’s suite that you could sneek into, take a picture of, and then post on the ole’ blog?

By Tyler

December 3, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

I’d like the Braves to acquire Marte from the Pirates along with Ben Sheets of the Brewers. I think we could hand CF to one of the youngsters and be fine with our deep, deep staff. A deal of Jo-Jo, Gorkys, and a lower level prospect should get Sheets. Smoltz, Hudson, Sheets, Glavine, and Jurjens/James sounds good to me.

While that won’t happen, we need at least one of Jurrjens, James, or Bennett to produce. We know Chuckie will at least be a descent #5, but probably a descent #4. Jurrjens will probably be the key this season. With Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine set, that leaves Chuckie and Jurrjens. If Jurrjens is solid, we’ll be all set. If so, it’d be nice to get DeJesus.

GO BRAVES!

By ChrisinPA

December 3, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

DOB

Nashville Cats - need to listen to the Del McCoury version. Outstanding!!

By johnbama

December 3, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

I am really confused Robert with your post of the Diaz, James and Prado deal. You are either looking for young studs (Murphy) or old washed up guys (Edmonds). I just can’t see where this helps the Braves this year or in the future unless a deal for Winn is made who, personally I think is hyped because of one really strong year….or half of a year. Wily Mo is not great defensively and would be awful in center field. The guy is a stick….a very good one at that but not so great defensively….if you were talking left field then I would actually say that would be interesting.

By bruce

December 3, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody [Here is latest article from Mark Bowman on Braves MLB.com site]{http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071203&contentid=2316212&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl}

By DonCoburleone

December 3, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

I don’t get this mirage of having a “surplus” of starting pitching every year. We said the EXACT same thing last year and look what happened! If we have to go into next season relying on Jair Jurrjens, Jo Jo Reyes, Jeff Bennett and Mike Hampton to get us a minimum of 65 starts and 400 innings we will be in a world of hurt… What’s wrong with 160 innings of 4.30 era and 11 wins (Chuck James’ projection for 2008) from the #4 or 5 spot in the rotation? Does Wren and others really believe they can get that out of Jo Jo Reyes or Bennet???? Because I DONT!

DOB please just do me one favor and I’ll never ask anything of you again… Go up to Frank Wren and force him to say this phrase repeatedly until it sinks into his head: YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH STARTING PITCHING, YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH STARTING PITCHING, YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH STARTING PITCHING…

By bruce

December 3, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody Trying again..Here is latest article from Mark Bowman on Braves MLB.com site

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

I forgot who posted the Hampton youtube video on the last blog, but you’ll love this:

We’re in meeting with Wren tonight, and after we’re done, I ask him if he’s seen the Hampton video. He hadn’t, and I mention to him that it’s linked on the blog.

He calls up the blog on the computer, which is hooked to a projector thing so that it’s on the wall. And after scrolling down and finding the post that had the link, he clicks it on and we sit and watch the entire thing — Wren, Schuerholz, Paul Snyder, the Braves’ PR folks, a couple of special assistant/scouts, and us two reporters.

It was the first time any of the Braves people had seen it, and there was running commentary about how good Hampton looked on a couple of pitches, then a discussion of how he slipped. (Hampton told Wren there was a wet spot on the mound that he slipped on.)

Anyway, it was funny, to be sitting there watching this youtube link from the blog.

By JasonInMaine

December 3, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

How can the catching position be a B with arguably the best young catcher in baseball?

By Jared

December 3, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, thoughts on a James for Fuentes trade? Is Fuentes on the Braves’ radar?

Damaso Marte=Ring

By bruce

December 3, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

last try, need special glasses to read the previous one…

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Tyler, Ben Sheets hasn’t made 30 starts since 2004. He also hasn’t thrown 200 innings since the same year. Don’t you think we have enough pitchers on the DL already? I don’t think he’d be a good trade candidate considering what Milwaukee would want in return. Additionally, he’s only signed thru 08 (at $11m) AND he has a partial no trade clause. He can only be traded to 8 teams. Don’t know who those teams are.

By bruce

December 3, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Dave that’s a great story about the Hampton YouTube viewing… make it part of your print article for tomorrow and AJC will have to put it up as a prime link for all to watch… great PR for your blog.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

Brother Dave:

Thanks for the rundown, but even better for the words to NASHVILLE CATS. Always loved that song. Never could understand ALL the words.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine, agreed. Didn’t even notice that grade. I’d go A- or B+ for catching.

Chuck James for Fuentes? Have you examined Fuentes’ numbers in Colorado? I think the Rockies want a mid-rotation starter and reliever for Fuentes. Not a back-of-rotation starter with a propensity for allowing homers (the ball kinda flies at Coors, as you’ve probably heard).

And sorry, but your Damaso Marte = Ring makes absolutely no sense. Look at Marte’s year-by-year stats. How is that in any way comparble to Royce Ring’s major league “career,” as it were?

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

DAVE:

P.S. How about the words to ‘BLACK VELVET’ when you post at the end of the meetings.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

DOB The Hampton Video story you just told is priceless. So freakin cool. The power of the media we all take for granted, huh? Showing Braves Brass stuff that we all saw a week ago. Marvelous…

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Bruce Thanks for all those attempts. I guess it answers my question- Bowman=MLB.COM employee.

Jared Love the idea of Fuentes. But, I would imagine he’s way out of our price range. He’s at least as expensive as Mahay would be to resign.

Tyler Ben Sheets is an awful idea. A nice thought, but an awful idea. If everyone bemoans Hampton, imagine what having Sheets on the DL for an entire year would do after we give up a bunch to get him.

By McFann

December 3, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I agree with Jason about the catcher’s grade! Why do you people always find an excuse to pick on McCann? At least give us a B+ at catcher (considering that B-Mac only caught 12% of the base-runners in ‘07). Maybe next year he’ll have a better time of catching people stealing, what with Lasik and all.

As for that left-handed reliever, maybe Chucky can go back in the bullpen and we can use one of our other many options as a starter. Hey, ya know, Chuck was always a 4+ inning starter, maybe he can be a long-going reliever.

By N8

December 3, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

DOB

You wrote:

“And GM Frank Wren has said Bobby Cox believes the Braves have enough offense at other positions to have a defense-first CF if they need to this season, that whatever offense they provide is a plus.”

I don’t mean to be pompous (OK….maybe just a little), but haven’t I been saying that for MONTHS!!!????

Now I understand that “publicly”, it’s the job of the GM and manager, to keep a poker face in this kind of debate. Especially when bargaining for trades (or free agents), is ongoing.

But it has been my belief since before the 2007 season started (when all the speculation of Andruw’s departure began heating up), that we could live with a stellar defensive CF hitting 8th, and that was BEFORE Tex was traded for.

NOW that our pitching has seemingly been upgraded (at least over last year’s rotation), I feel even more STRONGLY that this holds true.

If I’m Wren, I go into next season with one of those 3 manning CF. If one fails after a month, call up the “hotter” of the two remaining guys, and so forth. THEN if they none of them isn’t gonna cut it, and the team needs more offense….go get somebody. Similar to what was done with Thorman last year.

If the team is winning, and those guys aren’t performing, then WHO CARES. Let em’ play defense.

I’d start with Blanco. He’s obviously lowest on the “we care about his future in Atlanta” totem pole. that way Schafer and Anderson get a couple of more months in the minors after having a full spring training with the big club.

Of course, now because I spouted my mouth, that means that Wren will make a trade in the next 3 or 4 hours, so YOU can say “SEEEEEE I told YOU!”. LOL!

I mean, really. When you think about it, we survived last year (though without the playoffs), with a defense only CF, and he was left in the cleanup spot for 4 months, NOT the 8 hole.

How can it get any worse with the kids playing. They might just surprise us. I seem to recall a couple of guys making the jump from AA ball, and neither of them have gone back yet.

By Tyler

December 3, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Chrisklob-Wow, thought he was signed through ‘09 or ‘10. You’re right then, that definetely wouldn’t be smart, since we would be able to afford him and Tex.

By McFann

December 3, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Yeah, A-!! That’s the grade I was looking for!! Thanks, DOB!!

By geauxbraves2000

December 3, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

The Braves have a surplus of starting pitching like a bowling ball has a surplus of hair.

Geaux Braves!!

By Fury

December 3, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

DOB Are the Braves in danger of losing anyone in the Rule 5 draft? Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen.

By McFann

December 3, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Did I say 12%??!! Holy cow!! My BIG mistake!!! I mean HUGE!! He caught 21% of all base-runners!! Dang! I can’t believe I could screw-up like that!! My fingers have gotten in the habit of typing backwards lately, but SHEESH!!

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

McFANN:

Chuck as lefty long relief. Hum-m. Sounds good. But he’s got to keep the ball down like Mike Remlinger used to do the first time around. The Braves got two division titles they might not have had without Mighty Mike. As Cox what he thought of him. That guy was always ready, and produced in the clutch. I never saw a better set up man or intermediate reliever. He was money for 1-2-3 innings when the chips were down.

By Cooper S

December 3, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, you guys watching the Hampton video is a pretty fantastic image. Just more evidence for my argument that your blog is the center of the Braves universe. haha

By B

December 3, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

N8 WE survived last year-without play offs. finished 3rd is that what you want this year? he11 no.

By McFann

December 3, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

rich brave,

I agree, Chuck does give up a few too many homers for a reliever. Perhaps I should wait and see what he’s got in Spring Training before I make any judgement on how he’d be out of the bullpen again.

By LivininAL

December 3, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

I had kinda put him out to pasture, but I thought Hampton looked pretty good on the video. Maybe there is a few wins left in the guy.

By Roman Gal

December 3, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

I read a biography on Tim Hudson a while back and it noted that when he was in the minors his coaches made him use one of his lesser pitches as “out” pitches to help him develop them more. What if Chuck went to the minors and used this technique? It would make him learn a new pitch and use it effectively. Thoughts??

He was always successful in the minors and even when he was a rookie. It’ll be interesting to see how he rebounds after last year.

By N8

December 3, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

B

We played 4 months last year without Tex. This year, we’ll have him for 6 (barring injury), in a WALK YEAR at that. Don’t bet on Tex pulling an Andruw and sucking it up next year. I fully expect MVP type numbers from him.

Our rotation (even WITHOUT Glavine) was/is setting up nicer than it was last spring.

Our bullpen (even without Mayhay), is gonna be good. Lot’s of good young POWER arms that can help the batters avoid contact in tight situations. IE:….STRIKEOUT PITCHERS.

Now you add Glavine in there, the possibility of Hampton contributin ANYTHING, and the same for Gonzo.

I’m gonna go out on a limb. If we finish 3rd next year, the pundits will be talking about the three powerhouses in the NL EAST, and how one of them is gonna miss the playoffs while having a better record than one of the other division winners.

Dogfight (barring major injuries) to the end between the Mets, Phils and us.

Did you NOT watch Andruw last year? Bobby could’ve just as well left Langerhans out there in CF and batted HIM cleanup. NOBODY would’ve noticed the difference.

Keep in mind, that I think the odds of ALL THREE of the young guys (Blanco, Schafer or Anderson), NOT being ready to contribute with the bat is minimal.

If Blanco does what he’s done in the minors in the 8th spot of the order, we will score a TON of runs. Remember how the team did when Willie Harris was on base (without power btw), every other AB out of the 8th hole? His season went downhill, the SECOND Bobby put him into the leadoff spot. Check the splits. They don’t lie.

If we see a huge drop in offense this season, it WON’T be because we’re not getting any in CF. It will be because Chipper is hurt, Tex feels the pressure, or KJ and (or) Escobar had fluke years last year.

So NO. I don’t want what happened last year, and just so long as Wren doesn’t shock the world and sign Andruw, I’m pretty sure we’ll be a better team WITHOUT HIM.

By N8

December 3, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Roman Gal

That’s an interesting theory (about Hudson using a lesser pitch as an out pitch in the minors), however, about your question of that theory working for Chuck?

I’m guessing it’s not gonna work, since Hudson’s 3rd pitch is probably more nasty than Chuck’s #1 pitch. :-)

Now that you mention that, maybe that’s what Redman was doing last April? Except he was going with his 6th or 7th best pitch. Yeah…that’s it. He had TOO GOOD of a year in 2006 for KC, he wanted a challenge at the big league level. Or…maybe not. LOL!

By Tyler

December 3, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

N8, I agree with most of what you said. But you can’t really be too sure about our bullpen right now. We have Soriano and Moylan. Gonzo will help a lot, but only for half of a season. Acosta walked a lot of guys and pitched for a limited time, and same goes for Ring. If we get another solid reliever, we’ll be in good shape.

By Jared

December 3, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Re: 7:32,

O’Brien, did Fuentes already get traded or something? He’s a Rockie, not a Cub.

What I meant was is that Marte is a LOOGY, or lefty one-out guy, like Ring. They come in mid-inning to get, let’s say Ryan Howard out with two outs, runners on second and third and late-and-close. They don’t usually pitch full innings in close games unless teams are desperate. Whereas guys like Fuentes and Mike Gonzalez are left-handers who pitch whole innings regulary.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

this is for N8 who likes to rant about the Braves feast or famine offense

By DJ

December 3, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

A lot of Chuck James haters in here. Mark my words, Chuck will have a much bigger year than anyone expects, I just hope its with the Braves. Sitting next to Glavine is only going to help.

By LivininAL

December 3, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

DJ I’m not a Chuck James hater but I dont think he has been a very good student of the pitching game so far. Im with you though. I hope he has a chance to makes the most of Glavine’s smarts.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Here’s an unedited version of story I just filed, which should be up on website in a while.

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Nashville _ The Braves might move quicker than anticipated to fill a few remaining needs, and they have approval to add payroll if they can finalize the right deals this week.

That was the word Monday from general manager Frank Wren, who said on the first day of baseball’s Winter Meetings that he sensed many teams were ready to pull the trigger on deals this week.

He doesn’t feel like there’s a gun pointed at his head and a need to make a flurry of deals during the Winter Meetings that run through Thursday, but he doesn’t want the Braves to miss out on all or most of the players they’ve targeted to fill the remaining needs.

“So many clubs are ready to move [make deals],” said Wren, addressing Atlanta beat writers in his suite at the sprawling Opryland Hotel. “This is the best time to do things, if you can.”

Wren reiterated the Braves’ remaining needs: a left-handed reliever, center fielder, utility man with primary shortstop experience, and backup catcher, though rookie Clint Sammons could fill the latter need. Wren said if he was to prioritize those needs, lefty relief would be No. 1.

He had said recently that the Braves might not make any moves during the meetings, and that they could fill needs later this winter or at spring training. Monday, there seemed a bit more urgency.

The Braves already filled their primary offseason need by signing veteran lefty Tom Glavine, who they believe will be the innings-eater they lacked behind John Smoltz and Tim Hudson last season.

Wren said they have “12 or 13” targeted players on their board to fill three or four remaining needs, including three free agents. The others are trade possibilities.

The Braves would like to add another experienced center fielder to play the position and give prospect Jordan Schafer another season in the minors before he takes over. Free agent center fielder Steve Finley showed up at the meetings Monday and was spotted chatting with Braves manager Bobby Cox, but a Braves official said Finley hasn’t been discussed and isn’t in the team’s plans.

A few other points Wren addressed:

_ Shortstop prospect Brent Lillibridge could be a candidate for the backup infield/utility job, though Wren said only if Braves manager Bobby Cox believes Lillibridge could get enough playing time with the major league team to avoid stunting his development. He’ll probably play some games in the outfield during spring training. Wren also said Lillibridge’s nagging wrist injury will likely keep him out of winter ball, but shouldn’t affect him for spring training.

— First baseman Scott Thorman is still viewed highly by the Braves, and Wren said they aren’t looking to trade him despite some interest from teams. Thorman hit .216 and lost the first-base job last season as a rookie, but Wren saw encouraging signs in Thorman’s pinch-hitting late in the season, and noted eight homers in about one month of winter ball in Mexico.

“With some guys, the learning curve is broader and longer,” said the GM, adding that Thorman’s many believers among Braves officials staff include Wren.

— He identified the Braves “strength” areas as starting pitching, where they have “eight or nine” candidates for the rotation, and overall depth in the minor league system. He said while they aren’t seeking to trade a starter, they would consider it if they could help fill another need.

— The Braves could enter the season with what they have now in their bullpen, even though relatively inexperienced and erratic Royce Ring is their only lefty. They expect to lose veteran free-agent Ron Mahay to a club willing to give him a three-year contract in the $12 million range.

The best lefty being dangled for trade is Colorado’s Brian Fuentes, but the Rockies reportedly want a middle-rotation starter and reliever in return. Fuentes has made three straight All-Star teams.

More realistic targets for the Braves could include Will Ohman of the Cubs, who has a .196 career opponents’ average by lefty hitters, but struggled with a 4.95 ERA in 2007. Pittsburgh is shopping Damaso Marte, 32, who had a 2.38 ERA and 51 strikeouts in 45-1/3 innings.

By Mike Honcho

December 3, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Has Mike Stanton’s arm fallen off yet? If not the Braves should pull a Mark Redmond with him for the lefty reliever…

Also if Andruw goes to LA can we change the Dodgers name like Anaheim did? How about Los Angeles Dodgers formerly of Atlanta Now Grossly Overpaid.

Has a nice ring to it.

By Patrick

December 3, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

So, Chuck James for Fuentes is possibly being floated?

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Jared: Just a typo. Fixed now

By JasonInMaine

December 3, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

There are reports that the Mets are close on Bedard…I hope it’s just more Internet fodder…I would say he would be a suitable replacement for Glav!

By Stephen

December 3, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

I was the one who posted the YouTube video of Hampton’s outing. Thanks for that awesome bit of info, DOB!

By TexasBrave

December 3, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

DOB - I know that the Braves higher ups may know more than I about their players abilities, but Thorman’s swing it has a huge hole in it. Sure he may have hit 8 home runs in winter ball, but in 117AB he had a .239BA, 8BB, 29K and .286OBP. Come on those are horrible numbers in winter ball.

What I am hoping the Braves are doing is talking him up so someone will take him off our hands and get a small piece of our puzzle. I hate to think of him on our bench again next year. Let Diaz be the emergency back up 1st baseman and put someone on the bench that will get on base and not kill rallies with a strikeout.

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Wow. Nats picked up Elijah to flank Lastings. Are they going to sign Meltdown Bradley as well?

By Wayne in Utah

December 3, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Do you think that Mark Loretta is on the “Braves board?”

He would have the versatility to play a lot of positions.

I hope we pass on a backup catcher and stop gap centerfielder, as I like our young guys.

Actually, I like Lillibridge as our backup in fielder too.

So, in my thinking, the top priority is to get a lefty for the pen. Maybe even overpay a bit, and only trade for one of the other needs, if the right deal comes along.

Some right deals: Chuck James for Josh Hamilton or David DeJesus.

By bruce

December 3, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Dave, on second thought I suppose you would not mention the YouTube Hampton video story in the paper because that would be showing up the Wren and his team, and that is not your style (a good thing). The story was just so cool it was neat to be hearing almost real time. Thanks, Bruce

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

Jason, I don’t know where you heard the Bedard/Mets rumor but I’ll post this for the folks who haven’t seen anything more about it. Obviously Bedard will command a lot but it’s interesting what the Mets are willing to give up.

BTW, this is from mlb4u.com….

Erik Bedard, LHSP—Baltimore Orioles: The Orioles want to sign him to a 3-year or 4-year, $50M-60Mish contract extension, which would buyout at least one year of free agency. However, he has no interest in staying long-term in Baltimore. As a result, the Orioles are listening to trade offers. The Yankees, Mets, Mariners Angels and Dodgers are interested. However, the Orioles are said to be seeking for more talent in exchange for him than the Twins are seeking in exchange for Johan Santana. The Mariners consider the price too high.

The Mets have offered Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and a third player, probably Phil Humber. The Orioles were unimpressed. However, rumors Monday indicated the Mets were nearing a deal.

The Dodgers could offer Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw and Jonathan Broxton and are in active discussions with the Orioles. The Dodgers also have Andy LaRoche, Jonathan Meloan, James Loney, Andre Ethier, Tony Abreu and Delwyn Young to offer. The Dodgers are also shopping Kemp to the Marlins for Cabrera.

By JasonInMaine

December 3, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, the first I heard of it was on MLB Trade Rumors which supposedly heard it on the radio:

“Mets beat reporter Sweeny Murti said on WFAN that the Mets might be close on Erik Bedard. This would be very surprising, because even the Mets’ best package could be challenged by a number of teams (unless Jose Reyes is the centerpiece). Plus, why wouldn’t the Orioles wait for Johan Santana to be moved first?”

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

The Mets offers for Haren have not been strong enough since the Mets only players of real value to the A’s are Carlos Gomez and Kevin Mulvey. The A’s do not want Phil Humber and do not value Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez highly. After being told by the A’s that Haren will not be going there way, the Mets are focusing on Erik Bedard.
—Buster Olney

By Brave Fan

December 3, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Rotoworld has it too.

By Pompous N8

December 3, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. But since when do I rant? :-)

Now that my Chiefs are 4-8 and spiraling towards a Top 5 pick, I’ve seemed to have worn out my welcome on the KC-Star message boards (just kidding, I’m actually much more optimistic about them - they have admitted they are rebuilding and I can live with that….for now), I figured it was time to be welcomed back with open arms, for a Hot Stove season of ranting and epic posts.

Check out the name tag Grandma, you’re in my world now!

Pompous N8 is BAAAAAAAACK!

By Brave Fan

December 3, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Dave, I heard a rumor of a possible Chuck James-David DeJesus trade. What would the chances be of that?

By Tom A. Hawk

December 3, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

Its being reported that the Braves have acquired Erik Bedard for 4 prospects!!! Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine and Bedard!!! Are you flipping kidding me?!!?!?!?

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

Hmmm… I’m sure I’m missing something big here, but what exactly would David DeJesus or Coco Crisp do for the Braves that Jordan Schafer or the guy we just got for Villareal not do? Just asking…

By JasonInMaine

December 3, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Why do people feel the need to post such nonsense??

By Navigator

December 3, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

If the Dodgers pay Andruw $16M for his defensive skills, and who can’t even his his weight anymore, well you can see why they’re not contenders any more.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

ADave, well for starters, either one of them would eat up more $$$ than Schafer or Anderson. That is all.

By Robert

December 3, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Where did you hear we got Bedard, or are you making it up

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

Monty Hall is alive and well and in Nashville right now, although still no news on the bigger fish that could be swimming around J Percy Priest Lake, or even the indoor lake sized Opryland Hotel which is just up Briley Parkway from Percy Priest.

Some deals have been done. High risk/high reward deal done by the Nats today getting Elijah Dukes for minor league lefty Glenn Gibson. I like Manny Acta, and I think if anyone can mentor and mold Dukes into a model citizen, it would be Acta among the ones doing just that. But let’s be honest, this is a dice roll IMO and I think it could work out either way. The Pale Hose and the Snakes swap two minor league prospects.

I think Andruw likely signs with the Dodgers because I don’t see a better offer coming from anyone else. He’ll go to the left coast, eat a few Dodger Dogs and patrol CF in Chavez Ravine. Realistically, Darth Bora$ will hold out for something more, but I don’t see it. Is it too early to anoint Los Angeles as West Atlanta?

The amazin’ mediocres are in the hunt for Bedard, but do they have enough to coax him from the hands of Angelos? The O’s haven’t been overwhelmed by what has been offered so far. That kind of swap certainly would make some waves in the big apple, but I agree with the sentiment floating around middle Tennessee and elsewhere today that Bedard would be more expensive than Santana since he’s under contract for longer.

By Muggly Other

December 3, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Not to say that the Mets and O’s may not be near a deal for Bedard….but why would the O’s hurry to close a deal for Bedard? If I were the O’s, I would wait until the Santana deal was done before I listened to any serious Bedard offers. Once Santana is out of the picture, Bedard becomes an even hotter commodity. Of course the second place team in the Santana sweepstakes will likely be from the AL East so the O’s may not want to send Bedard there.

Anyway…. I think the O’s would be wise to wait until after Santana is traded before making a deal that includes Bedard.

By Random

December 3, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

rich brave—

;-) I hate to always be the contrarian (no, really I do), but that was a horrible Roberto Duran imitation (which, come to think of it, may very well be the best I can do).

Don’t know if it was a corner stool or a milking stool — I don’t even know if I was sitting on it, milking it or drinking it.

Lew—

Understood — thanks.

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

Chrisklob — That’s what I’m thinking too. I’d like to see a little more “priority” emphasis on a proven, young starter and a little less on looking outside the organization for a centerfielder and backup SS. In fact, this is what my priority board would look like: 1. quality lefty for the pen and 2. proven young power arm for the rotation. The rest of the the Braves needs can be filled internally or, if not, addressed during spring training or the first month of the season. I think we are being overly cautious with our near-ready young position prospects. Or am I missing something significant here?

By Pompous N8

December 3, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

I’m now reporting that Tom A. Hawk is an azzwhole.

Wait….this just in.

Yes. It’s been confirmed. Tom A. Hawk is indeed an…..

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Well, it seems appropriate that Tom A Hawk from the Weekly World News is piping in with a breaking trade…

By Salt

December 3, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

“The record man said, Every one is a YELLOW SUN record from Nashville”. Even though Sun was from Memphis, Yankees don’t know the difference.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Meanwhile, drama in the land of crab cakes. 5:21 in the 4th and the Ravens lead the Patriots 24-20.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

ADave, I still think we need a good backup SS too but that will come in time. I’m content to have Blanco or Anderson to start in CF. If things go badly, then bring Schafer up. To bring Schafer up now, with less than an year experience at A+ ball, I think may be counterproductive to his future.

Frankly, I don’t think FW is going to get that young, proven starter. In spite of what that azzclown TomAHawk says, I don’t see Wren purging the farm for a guy like Bedard or Haren. There are too many candidates for the starting rotation even if Hampton can’t go.

So, what’s left then is attaining a solid lefty reliever. Unfortunately, they’ll probably have to overpay for him. But you’ve gotta do what you gotta do.

By Bo

December 3, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave and Chrisklob- That would be the way to go. Agree with your priority. Pitching pitching pitching………………

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

mlbtraderumors.com is reporting the Reds are indeed willing to listen to offers for Josh Hamilton and a young cheap starter is what they are wanting. Could Wren convince them that James is that guy? Hamilton would be a great pickup for the Braves.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 3, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Offense scores runs , pitching and defense wins games. I can’t put it anymore bluntly than that.

By uga-brave

December 3, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

robert,

just dont see james a fit in that ballpark. though i believe hamilton has a ton of upside, if he has those demons under control.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

For the second week in a row, the Patriots have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Has the “code” been cracked?

By superman

December 3, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB are gonna try to make to opry mills??? You should check out the bass pro shops. I was up there this past weekend and it was incredible. Busy as hell but incredible

By Edgar

December 3, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

WOW!!! Pats are 12-0 by 2 Yards!!!! What a team, what a game!!!

By uga-brave

December 3, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

coach,

to add to your cliche. up the middle defense wins games c, ss, 2nd, and cf. right now i would say we are below avg. defensively now at c, 2nd, and for the moment cf.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this

Chris,

Amazing ending to that game with all of the drama going on with the Patriot’s streak and the defense revolting against Billick. That timeout before what would have been a fourth down stop to win the game for Baltimore sure didn’t help.

By BabyGoatEater

December 4, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

It makes too much sence to use lillibridge as the back-up: shortstop, 3rd base, 2cd base, center feilder, right feilder and left felder. He will get maybe 1 or 2 innings in right thanks to iron-man francouer, but I think he’d get plenty of starts everywhere else. 3rd….hell maybe half a season if chipper is chipper. You know how bobby doesn’t like to over-use yound guys like yunel and kelly and whichever prospect is playing center. I think he’d have plenty of at-bats. Let the kid play Frank. Let the kid play.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 4, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Hey, the Nationals could make a deal for Josh Hamilton and go for the tri-fecta. He will fit right in with the D.C. crowd. Oh heck, invite Milton Bradley and you would have a modern day version of the gas house gang.

I’m glad the Braves brass got to see the clip of Mike Hampton. Maybe I will start taking my video recorder to the Richmond games. This year.

By Pompous N8

December 4, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

uga-brave

Have you not been reading what DOB has to say? ALL THREE of the kids slated to compete for CF, can “go get it”.

Now we might be downgrading compared to Andruw of 5 years ago, but so what?

Won’t argue with you on McCann and KJ. Though I will say that McCanns “game-calling” makes up a little bit for his below average D. I also expect KJ to improve his defense, that being said, I’m NOT expecting a GG anytime soon. LOL!

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

DOB — Anything to the Josh Hamilton availability rumor and could he be on the Braves chalkboard?

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

You know how bobby doesn’t like to over-use yound guys like yunel and kelly and whichever prospect is playing center.

I’m not sure which “bobby” you’ve been watching, but the one I’ve been watching seems to have NO problem playing the youngsters.

By they way, I tasted goat recently. Not that impressed.

By mark

December 4, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

Im sorry Folks I love the Braves but the Starting Guys are somewhat shaky at beast..I mean John Smoltz is about to break any day now, Glavine is washed up ,Im not against Tommy but he s washed up..BRAVES NEED STARTERS!!!!

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

n8,

no i agree with the kids in center, but there is a lot to be said for instincts that are developed over time. andruw like him or not always got great jumps on the ball. there have been a lot of so called fast guys that have never developed that ability. turner field is a big ball park, i think there are lot of people that will miss andruw more then they think.

By Bo

December 4, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

DOB its been 3 hrs since your last blog. Whats going on in the bar? music? TV show ? short dresses? Baseball? I’m going to bed.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

mark, look at Glavine’s numbers for the past few seasons and then get back to us if you still think he’s “washed up”.

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

Mark — One strong young starter would make the Braves division and probably NL favorites. Smoltz and Glavine done? Where are you getting that? Any club in baseball would be glad to have Smoltz and Glavine in their rotation.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

AdirondackDave: How can you say what Schafer will do, when the kid hasn’t played above A-ball? I mean, really? Based on what he did in the Arizona Fall League? Hey, I really like the kid and think he’s a four- or five-tool guy who’ll be a standout for a long time once he gets here. But if you really can’t understand why the Braves might want a guy who’s actually produced in the majors, well, I don’t know what to tell you.

Crisp hit .297 with 15 homers for Cleveland in 2004, and .300 with 16 homers in 2005.

And in arguably the most pressure-filled place to play in baseball (ask Edgar), he slipped the past two seasons for Boston but still hit .266 with 14 homers and 50 steals in 60 attempts during 2006-07.

How can you expect a kid to come straight from A-ball to the majors and produce like that? Schafer had produced lesser numbers than those in A-ball until 2007. He hit .240 at Rome in 2006.

And you’re sure he’s ready to go straight from A-ball to the majors and do everything that someone like a Crisp or DeJesus (.282 career average in the majors, and over the past three seasons 96 doubles, 22 triples and 170 RBIs) can do right now? Really?

Hey, maybe he will. But there’s really not much reason to believe that’s going to happen. Kids that jump directly from A-ball to the majors are very much the exceptions, not the rules. And ones who succeed in their first year in such a jump are even more rare.

The Braves are extremely high on Schafer’s future. That’s why they want to do the right thing for the kid….

Chrisklob, Greg: That was one of the most incredible finishes I’ve ever seen in an NFL game. Pats can’t possibly come closer to losing without actually losing. Can’t believe the timeout…Ravens had it won. Had. It. Won.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

speaking of college football, what is the over under on tebow crying when he wins the heisman. the dude is a bit of a crier.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this

Brave Fan: That Chuck James-for-DeJesus rumor would make a lot of sense for both teams.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

dob,

espn is reporting the twins want more then the yanks are willing to give up for santana and the red sox are still in it. if that is true my guess is crisp would be included in that deal. i know that cameron is suspended the first 25 but is he totaly off the braves radar? his value has got to be bargain basement about now?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 4, 2007 1:00 AM | Link to this

uga-brave , I must digress from your rather uniformed opinion.

You have yet to see any of the three young center fielders play a single game. Nevermind the fact that the Braves know everything about the defensive ability of Schafer , Blanco and Josh Anderson.

McCann’s defense was hampered all season by the bone spurs he had and yet you ignore his game calling ability and offense. He played through injury all season and was slated for off-season surgery to fix it.

Kelly Johnson had problems moving to his right and back handing groundballs in the hole all season which contributed greatly to his 14 errors. However , his range is much better than Giles ever was and he turns the double play flawlessly.

Do I even need to bring up the offensive differences between Giles and KJ ?

You completely ignored that fact that Yunel Escobar is a big defensive improvement over Renteria.

And 1B ? Um , gold glove caliber and the offense , outstanding.

Chipper had an outstanding season both from an offensive and defensive standpoint.

I truly wish you would try and understand that from foul line to foul line , the Braves defense will be an even better unit in 2008 than it was in 2007.

By Billy (TBFNB)

December 4, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

I think Scott Boras will be and should be fired by Andruw Jones in the near future. The man may have cost him millions not to mention alienating him from the team he appears to truely love. I think Scott Boras is the only person stopping Andruw from inking a deal right now. It does not appear that many teams want to bow down to ol’ scotty. I really feel bad for Andruw. But he a man and made a descion to listen to Boras. I dont think he will ever be the same.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

uga: I think that Cameron still might be a possibility for the Braves, but I gotta believe there are a few others who might be better fits.

DeJesus, Duffy (many are not thrilled with his past, but he has some tools), Randy Winn, Corey Patterson (has actually improved his K/BB ratio in the past two years) and Crisp. Then there is Damon, who is probably a long shot, but is certainly a winner too.

Then there is always the Carl Crawford and Ryan Freel “rumors”. Hey, the Rays seem to be trading off many off their young outfielders, but I don’t see CC leaving this year.

We could always go for Milton Bradley! Could make for an interesting summer. I suspect he might not be full speed though on opening day.

My prediction for starting CF in 2008, Josh Anderson!

Gotta run. Maybe tomorrow will bring trades to the Braves of ALL the Christmas wishlist of Frank, John, and Bobby!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 4, 2007 1:15 AM | Link to this

CF David DeJesus and LHRP Jimmy Gobble for Chuck James and say , Willy Harris. that might be doable.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

I would love to see some of these teams use some restraint in obtaining some of this talent (Santana, Cabrera, AJ, etc.)

Night all.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 1:20 AM | Link to this

Adirondack: As I see it, I would love to see the Braves pick up another top of the rotation pitcher (Cain, Haren, Bedard, etc.)

Problem with doing that is the price of such players has hit the roof! So, while I believe that Frank Wren would probably love to pick up one of these pitchers, I just don’t know if he is willing to give up the players it would take in todays market to make it happen.

We have some good prospects coming up. Guys like Reyes and Jurrjens will probably have their chance to make an impact this year. Other pitchers like Bennett and Morton are also on the horizon. Guys like Rohrbough, Hanson, Evarts, Locke, etc. are at least a year away.

So, while picking up Haren or Bedard would really cinch it for the Braves, would keeping the prospects serve the Braves better in the long run? That is the question for the ages.

I would hate to see us trade off too many of our young guys who might turn out to be our Smoltz/Glavine of 2010. So, while I would love to see us pick up one of these starters, I would certainly hope we wouldn’t have to mortgage the farm to do it. Maybe our old farts can hang on long enough for these other players to make it in the bigs.

Whaddya think?

By GermanBravesFan

December 4, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this

If ownership has approved adding payroll to “add the missing pieces,” why don’t the Braves sign Mahay to a three-year deal?

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

coach,

in reponse to my so called uniformed opinion. let me start by saying i believe heap is one of the five best catchers in baseball, but the past balls are not a product of injury. there were times last year when he looked somewhat lazy behind the plate, just ask tim hudson. kelly is a work in progress at 2nd and while he will never be a gold glover he is a max effort guy. dont dismiss what edgar brought to this team every day. he made all the routine plays without effort. while i do agree there will be a time when escobar is going be a subperb defensive shortstop just remember he has never played 162 before. dont forget there was a time when this organization had their doubts about his attitude.

the braves are rolling the dice somewhat that they will get similar performances from two key positions, ss and cf. if they do my hats off to them but it is a risk. hudson and glav are big ground ball pitchers who depend on the double play. hey i hope you are right but dont automatically discount proven defensive veterans.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 4, 2007 1:34 AM | Link to this

RESTRAINT ??????? Johan Santana is to pitching as Angelina Jolie is to Hollywood. You just have to appreciate the talent , then fall all over yourself like a love struck teenager.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this

there was a time when the winter meetings rolled around and we were players in the trade game. well for the last 5 years or so we have learned how the other half lives. until there is a hard cap in the game this will never end and if mark cuban ever buys the cubs it will only get worse. i still assume we are a big market team, still hoping LMT lives up to their talk, time will tell.

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this

According to the Toronto Star, the Jays offer Rios to the Marlins for Scott Olsen and the MARLINS REJECTED THE DEAL!!! I know the Braves could offer more than Olsen. I would love to have Rios.

By Jared

December 4, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this

uga-brave, what about Tim Hudson?

While not acquired at the winter meetings, what about Teixeira?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 4, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

McCann is anything but lazy. I tried to explain his defensive lapses , he had more than his share of passed balls due to the fact that his footwork was subpar. C’mon , footwork , shin splints that required surgery. make the connection already !

Egar Renteria is an above average SS when it comes to his offense , way above average and I’m talking all-star caliber.

When it comes to his range , way below average. I cannot even begin to express my frustration watching him pick a groundball at the edge of the grass and not even bother to get a throw off to first because he knew he couldn’t throw the runner out.

And his arm , noodle strength at best. Basically , the Tigers got some great offense and veteran leadership. But , they will have to take the good with the bad when it comes to his range and arm.

Escobar is already a superb defender with great range and an absolute cannon for an arm. Did I mention the fact that he plays 3B and 2B too ?

Yunel is going to make us forget all about Edgar Renteria. C’mon , .326 BA in what was essentially his rookie season.

This rolling the dice stuff is pure fantasy on your part. The Braves have done their homework , they know and I know the two things that have been improved upon. The Pitching and Defense , which relates right back to my original statement.

Offense scores runs , Pitching and Defense wins games.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 4, 2007 2:29 AM | Link to this

The Braves could go after Pittsburgh’s Damaso Marte , although I have no idea what the Pirates would want in return.

Cincinnati’s CF Josh Hamilton and uitlity man Jeff Keppinger might be worth looking at.

By MJ

December 4, 2007 2:29 AM | Link to this

DOB…there is a rumor that Jose Gullien is close to signing w/ the Royals. Would this make DeJesus more expendible for them and more willing to trade now that they have a power hitting OF? They obviously need pitching and Chuck James for DeJesus would make a lot of sense for the Braves and KC.

By Desperado Dave

December 4, 2007 2:30 AM | Link to this

I was wondering as I read DOB’s comments if the players that Wren has “on the board” are those who he has had preliminary discussions about and are known to be available or if he would be seeking to see if they are available. If there have been preliminary discussions, it would mean a deal could happen during the meetings.

I think that it is possible for Atlanta to win the NL East with the team they have. Possible. Do I think they could win the NL pennant and go to the World Series. Possible. Do I think they can win the World Series? No. Colorado showed this year how far the gap is between the NL teams and the Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees or whoever may represent the AL.

Rome was not conquered in a day and I have no delusions that Frank Wren can appear on the scene and make all the moves necessary to win a World Series in one year. It makes you wonder if John S. really did such a wonderful job after all.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 4:20 AM | Link to this

I’ve never really understood folks who put more stock in Jo-Jo than in James. Reyes’ doesn’t have nearly the minor league resume’ that Chuck does; he did have a couple of nice starts, but I’m not convinced that he’s as good as James. Hey, I hope they all do well, but Reyes has a lot to prove still, to me.Steamboat

Yeah James has exceptional minor league numbers, but they may be a bit misleading. Young hitters almost never see good offspeed pitches. Very few minor leagues had a changeup anywhere near as good as Chuck’s. Like an exceptional early curve this can be a devastating pitch against almost all minor league hitters, especially under AAA and even there a lot of them have trouble with that kind of stuff. Unfortunately major league hitters are much better against such pitches especially when there is only a two pitch repertoire such as in Chuck’s case. JoJo is generally regarded as having more “stuff” and more pitches. He also does not usually throw as many flyball pitches. If he can learn reasonable command he might be a better pitcher than James. Unless of course Chuch does some major adjusting. Of course lots of guys never attain it. We’ll hafta wait and see

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 4:26 AM | Link to this

’d disagree with this. Those players who are typically good have been playing their whole lives. Not so much for the thought of making big bucks, no matter the sport. When you’re 8 years old you’re playing because it’s fun, not because it’ll be a money maker when you’re in your late 20’s. I don’t think Football players do that, or bankers, dictators, oil drillers or anyone for that matter. When you’re a kid you do what is fun/interesting/what everyone else is doing. If the game of baseball isn’t fun to kids, that’s a whole different subject and has nothing to do with money.TP

I agree completely. My point was that players that young do not think about money much and therefore do not think about the longer careers potentially available in baseball. That would really only apply to someone talented enough to have a choice at pro in several different sports and there are very few of those really. Otherwise you are most likely to grow up playing the sport that is most accepted in your ‘hood’ whatever that may be.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 4:40 AM | Link to this

P.S. How about the words to ‘BLACK VELVET’ when you post at the end of the meetings

just go to Google and type in “Black Velvet song lyrics”

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 5:20 AM | Link to this

Corey Patterson (has actually improved his K/BB ratio in the past two years)

yep. and his OBP went all the way up to .304. Sheeesh. give me a break.

By ronp

December 4, 2007 5:33 AM | Link to this

Chuck James will have a breakout year with 15 wins or more. Hampton is a bust and can’t even walk the dog without injury; he’s milked every team he played for…

AJ to LA good luck!

Shawn Green is not signing with Mets and is a free agent..wonder if we can find a spot for him in the outfield…he can still play.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 4, 2007 6:07 AM | Link to this

The cheering you hear is coming from John Smoltz on learning that Shawn Green is no longer playing for the Mets. John is now hoping Shawn will go west…..

By joebrave

December 4, 2007 6:20 AM | Link to this

Dudes,c’mon,Last Year was and is Chuck James will ever be,nothing more,nothjing less,One he has got to have a decent Third pitch,which he does not have,and after 2 full seasons apparently refuses to learn,too many HR,and not enough groundouts……He is a grade above Mark Redman,that’s it……..

By wjones

December 4, 2007 6:32 AM | Link to this

Maybe John Smoltz can talk the Braves into signing Shawn Green, so he won’t sign with another east division team. It might be worth it for him to chip in some of his OWN salary! :)

By The Murf

December 4, 2007 7:37 AM | Link to this

Only place to go for quality Braves news, thanks DOB. Keep up the great work

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 7:46 AM | Link to this

DOB

Brave Fan: That Chuck James-for-DeJesus rumor would make a lot of sense for both teams.

Were you being sarcastic, or do you really think this makes sense? If you really mean it, then I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense for both teams. I would love the trade from the Braves side of things, maybe we could kill two birds with one stone and get Jimmy Gobble back as well. I’m sure we would have to add more though.

By Jim H.

December 4, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this

More power to you Dodgers, go ahead and sign Andruw. Hope you enjoy the low batting average, strike-outs, weak ground-outs (with many turning into double plays), weak pop-ups, rallies fizzling out, and his still good (but in decline) defensive play. Glad we had him during his prime years…….he is definitely an OLD 30. I like Andruw but he should have spent more time at the gym and less time at McDonalds!

And my God, please don’t trade Chuck James! Didn’t we learn anything from last year? You can never have enough pitching!

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 7:55 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I wasn’t being sarcastic. I makes a lot of sense. Don’t know that I’d do it straight-up, if I’m the Braves, but it makes sense with those two as the principles. Might need a bit more if I’m the Braves, but….

By bill schmidt

December 4, 2007 7:57 AM | Link to this

As a good North Dakota boy, I believe I must point out that Darin Erstad is with the White Sox, not the Angels.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 8:01 AM | Link to this

Desperado, it means they’re available or could be, that the Braves have had at least preliminary discussions with the team about those players and not been told “he’s not available.”…

MJ, I’d think potentially getting Guillen would have to make DeJesus more expendable.

By mark

December 4, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

Im sorry Dave but pitching 1/3 of a inning in the biggest game of year and getting slammed for 7 runs is well …not common in those type of games.He is not anywhere the pitcher he was.I am glad that Tommy gets a chance to end his career as a Brave, but Im thinking by July he will be waived with high respect.

By rich brave

December 4, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this

LAST YEAR CHUCK JAMES WON 11. How many of those were complete games? 0 - right? How many did he complete 7 innings - 6 innings? From what’s been discussed here, I’ve realized he has poor learning habits, poor work discipline. If he’s wearing out the relief corps wjth ALMOST every start, pitching up in the zone occasionally whether starting or relieving and getting hammered, and another team offers a CF, or utility IF with a good bat for him then what is he? Answer: He’s Chuck on a stick that looks like potential Filet for someone else. He’s being shopped and sold if Wren gets anything he needs out of it. The Braves gave him his test and he flunked. They just don’t hang on to players who don’t fit in their system, and he doesn’t.

By david

December 4, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

What about Steve Finley in center for 1 year. I heard he is in great shape.

By LivininAL

December 4, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

In the Chuck James for-DeJesus rumor. Does K City have a utility short stop they could add to the deal?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

Here is something that really got my attention concerning David DeJesus.

In 605 at bats in 2007 , he had just 83 strike outs and 64 walks to go along with his .351 OBP.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

What the hell happened to Andruw Jones? Some here seem to be taking too much glee from it. It’s so sad to me. You take your skills for granted for long enough, it won’t be long before the rest of the world starts taking you for granted.

By Jeff R

December 4, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

First, with contracts going up, and the competition for quality pitchers, I’m not understanding why the Braves would be reluctant to sign Mahay to a 3-year $9 million deal, unless they think that the 36-year-old doesn’t have enough gas in his tank to go the term.

Second, I’d be reluctant to part with James. He’s young. Some guys take longer to mature. And two of those three starters that DOB mentioned (Smoltz, Hudson and Glavine) are old arms. I certainly hope that neither Smoltz or Glavine breakdown or tail-off, but it doesn’t hurt having healthy arms with major league experience available as insurance. And, finally, who would Wren move James for? A centerfielder? Given the talent pool there now, albeit young talent, I think the need is overrated.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

richbrave i would not say chuck flunked last year. that’s really way too strong.

but does anyone remember when chuck went on the DL? I always wondered was he so hurt that he needed to go on the DL or was Cox ticked at Chuck for making excuses for poor performance? I could see Cox saying if you tell me you pitched bad because you are “fatigued” or “hurt”, off to the DL you go.

Plus, Chuck had a weird quote at that time to Carroll Rogers I believe where he said something like I guess Smoltz is good enough to pitch when hurt and I’m not.

I never really understood what he meant when he said that. IT was kind of a disturbing quote.

I don’t know what the hell went on behind the scenes there in early August but it was pretty darn obvious that Cox and the organization lost alot of faith in Chuck for the rest of the season and apparently the offseason as well.

By Jeff R

December 4, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Part of what happened to Andruw is a lack of discipline, or so it seems. And by that I mean he never seems to be conditioned. A guy who tends to put on weight needs to work harder to stay in shape. Also, from what I’ve read, Andruw’s never developed the plate disipline that would cut down his strikeouts and boost his average.

By Jake C.

December 4, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Is Jeff Keppinger one of the utility shortstops the Braves are pursuing for their utility spot? He killed the Braves last year and is a Georgia boy if I remember correctly.

Also, has Ryan Freel been discussed as a possible CF option? Thanks.

By McFann

December 4, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

OK, I’ll admit, McCann’s defense wasn’t that impressive. But that was prob’ly half injury, half eyesight. And how many times did he go on the DL last year with all those nagging injuries? That’s right, NONE!! He hates not beeing able to help the team, that he would even not tell people when he was hurting for fear that someone would think he was trying to make an excuse about his play. (Whoa, looooong sentence alert!) As for ankle surgery, I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Doctors agreed that the off-season rest—and he gets plenty of that—would be enough.

By Hammy the Brave

December 4, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I have long agreed that it’s much more efficient to get up leaves using a mulching mower, than raking them! I just mulched my leaves in my back yard last night in 20min. with a mower, and I’d hate to think how long raking would have taken.

Also, I’ve never talked music with you, are you a blues lover at all? I’m a big fan of Muddy Waters, especially the songs Manish Boy and I’m A Man. Do you like his stuff and what?

Now to the Braves stuff. Aren’t you concerned that we’re undervaluing Chuck James and overvaluing David Dejesus? I’m not a huge James fan, but I’d rather wait to trade him as part of a bigger package(say to Pirates- if they’d trade Snell, Nady and Marte; maybe Braves could send James, Diaz, Yates, Cormier or Carlyle, and trade Dan Smith, before they lose him in Rule 5 draft).

What’s all the love for Dejesus? He has no speed or power, and the main thing is, he’s another lefty bat for CF. We need a righty bat to platoon there- how about Ryan Freel for 1-2 yrs?

I know I’m in the minority on this, but I think we’re wrong in trying to replace Andrew’s power with another CFer. Why don’t we replace his righty power in LF(with Xavier Nady or Juan Rivera from the Angels, etc.)? Then we just get by with good defense in CF, and a leadoff or 8th place hitter there.

Thanks for the Winter meeting updates,

     Hammy the Brave

By BamaBrave

December 4, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Yes, trade Chuck James while his value is still positive, and can land us a proven guy like DeJesus. I like James, but I expected him to win a few more games, go deeper into those games this year, and show signs of smarter pitching…like staying ahead in the count more often, etc. But more than anything else, I worry about the guy’s mechanics. Granted, he’s gotten this far with his all-upper-body technique, but he’s living life on the edge, and he’ll never go deep into games…he just won’t have the gas. So, do you change his delivery at this stage? That’s a can of worms…so yes…trade him.

By AJ 25

December 4, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

Jeff R… I have great plate discipline. I clean my plate every single time.

By brent a.

December 4, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

The Hampton/Youtube story is great!

By DirtyDawg

December 4, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

We’re gonna miss Andruw, but Andruw’s gonna miss us more. I think this guy will, if he already doesn’t, regret ever hookin’ up with Scott Borass. Sure he’ll squeeze a few million more out of some other club…did you ever wonder what JS and the Braves could have done with another 20-30 million dollars over the years? Bet we’d still be winning pennants and more…but he’ll never again ‘be home’. He’ll always be able to say, ‘look at me…I can play…centerfield’, but he’ll never again be able to say ‘I’m the Braves centerfielder’.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

SI.com has an article about Minaya saying that they don’t feel that they need another starting pitcher.

Click here.

By Cameron

December 4, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Ok, I think the Braves should try to work out a trade with either the Rays or the Reds for Carl Crawford, or Josh Hamilton. Those are two really good centerfielders and could really produce in the field and with the bat until the young talent is ready. Plus, sign then to entensions and when the rookies are ready for the majors, trade Crawford or Hamilton for more good talent.

By Jim

December 4, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

How about the thought that Glavine just might be the key to light up James’ brain to what being a pitcher is all about? Surely a great veteran lefty has lots to share….Maybe holding on to James in that light is worth looking at…

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Hammy the Brave, I’m a huge blues fan, so of course I love Muddy Waters. And Howlin’ Wolf. And Leadbelly, Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Son Seals, Albert King, Bo Diddley, Willie Dixon … so, so many great artists.

You should listen to a lot more Muddy than just those hits, if you haven’t. He’s got several best-of sets available, including Anthology (great set), His Best (also great) and The Definitive Muddy Waters.

I’ve got a bunch of great albums of his, including “Real Folk Blues,” One More Mile” and “Rare & Unissued.”

“Got My Mojo Working” and “All Aboard” are terrific songs.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Hammy the Brave, what’s wrong with a stopgap, one-year guy who has a .282 career average in the majors, and over the past three seasons has amassed 96 doubles, 22 triples and 170 RBIs? That’s DeJesus.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Cameron, why would the Rays trade Crawford now? They don’t have a surplus of OFs anymore, whatsoever. I’d suggest they’re done trading OFs.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

How strange it would be if Andruw Jones ended up playing center for Kansas City and David DeJesus for the Braves in 2008.

Not that I believe it’ll happen. I can’t see the Dodgers being outbid by the Royals.

By McFann

December 4, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Oh, and I don’t know why you say McCann’s game calling skills are below average. I’d say he did a pretty good job with the pitchers the Braves had.

BTW, I read an article that saud that Saltalamacchia was going to be Texas’ starting catcher in ‘08. Congrats to the former Brave!!

By DAP

December 4, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Robert(JIB) you want to trade diaz, james and prado for a stop-gap CF? Guys, try to keep in mind we are talking about a STOP-GAP! some one to hold it down for a year! if we trade for a stop gap it should be minor leaguers…no one that is going to play on the ML club next year!

By Anders

December 4, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

McFann IMO McCann is gonna have his hands full against the Mets and Phillies when they’re on base. Both teams have speed and like to use it. I don’t think McCann has the footwork or defensive skills to handle it. Plus I think Acta will have the youngs bucks the Nats are acquiring running this year too. McCann is an excellent hitter for a catcher but the position calls for defense first. Look at the WS winners for the last 10 or so years. You see the Charlie Obriens, Charles Johnsons,Joe Girardis, Damian Millers, Molina’s , Varitek etc. Not high average big RBI guys but all good pro receivers. That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions i.e. Posada and Pudge Rodriguez, but for the most part I think you get my drift.

By Champ

December 4, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

I have heard the Reds and Cubs were talking about a Marshall for Hamilton trade, I wonder if the Braves would have any interest in Josh Hamilton????

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Well, I hope the DeJesus for James rumors are true. It would be nice if the Braves could reacquire Tony Pena Jr. in the deal as well.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Who was Andy Pettite kidding with that retirement talk? Enough already. Dude, you are 35 years old and being paid a ton of money to play a kid’s game. As Phil Simms told Brett Favre when Brett was thinking about retiring, what the hell are you gonna do with the rest of your life that is as good as what you are doing right now?

Pettite is 35 and has 201 wins. Hang around another 7 years on that team and he will have 300 wins when he is 41, 42 years old and be in the Hall of Fame. Gimme a break. At least his buddy Clemens waited until he was over 40 to start the retirement nonsense. A 35 year old making $16 mil a year threatening retirement. Who are ya kidding, Andy?

By KC

December 4, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

It’s been reported that the Reds are looking for another starter… how about Chuck James for Ryan Freel?

By KC

December 4, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

WAIT… never mind. Forget that. The Reds would be crazy to want Chuck James. The Great American Ballpark is about the worst place in the WORLD for a flyball pitcher like James.

And I wouldn’t part with Reyes or Jurjens.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

DAP, I was thinking more of a stopgap CF that could also serve as insurance in case B. Jones doesn’t turn out to be the player we think he is going to be. I was thinking of finding somebody that could kill two birds with one stone. And, if B. Jones winds up being a great player that stopgap CF can always be traded.

By Patrick

December 4, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

TRADE

Good call on this one DOB

Bruce Levine in Chicago reported this.

WILL OHMAN AND OMAR INFANTE FOR JOSE ASCANIO

Look like Wren killed two birds with one stone.

By Amber

December 4, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

I waited for this blog just to say: Hi, DOB!!!

Good to see baseball happenin’ up here in Nashville! I feel an urge to go over to Opryland and lurk around!

By A.J.

December 4, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

MLBtraderumors.com has a report from ESPN radio that the Braves have traded Jose Ascanio for lefty Will Ohman and backup infielder Omar Infante (formerly of the Tigers I believe)

Breaking News brought to you by me

By kdbanks

December 4, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

DOB -

I doubt that you will, but if you have time tomorrow night for some music, I suggest heading about 30 miles south to a place called “The Pond” in Franklin, Tn. There’s a cat named Joshua Black Wilkins playing tomorrow night that is one of my favorite unknown alt-country singer songwriters.

Just a thought…

KDB

By Jake C.

December 4, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Braves trade Jose Ascanio for Will Ohman and Omar Infante.

Ascanio is definitely the most talented player, but Wren fills a couple of spots cheaply.

By Michael

December 4, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

If Schafer turns out to be the long term answer in CF that we all hope he will be, where could Gorkys Hernandez fit into the team down the road? (besides as a potential trade chip)

By Colin

December 4, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

James for Dejesus would make my day because we have enough pitching and i could see Dejesus doing very well covering the center field in ATL.

Also ive heard this

Cubs Send Infante and Ohman To Braves

mlbtraderumors.com

By Greg

December 4, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Ohman and Infante to the Braves for Ascanio. Heard on espn radio in Chicago.

By dcarp23

December 4, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Cubs Send Infante and Ohman To Braves According to Bruce Levine of ESPN Radio 1000, the Cubs have sent lefty reliever Will Ohman and infielder Omar Infante to the Braves for righty reliever Jose Ascanio.

Ascanio closed a bit for the Braves’ Double A affiliate last year; he turns 23 in May. He seems to have strong groundball tendencies.

Infante (acquired for Jacque Jones) and Ohman were a bit redundant on the Cubs’ roster. They already had Scott Eyre and perhaps Sean Marshall coming from the left side out of the pen. And they’ve got plenty of middle infielders in Ronny Cedeno, Mark DeRosa, Mike Fontenot, and Ryan Theriot.

Who knows how this one will play out, but the Braves filled a couple of needs more cheaply than they might’ve on the open market. Ohman makes $1.6MM next year; Infante should be under $2MM.

By DAP

December 4, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

i cant believe what im hearing. james for deJesus. i dont like the trade, the braves would have to get something else as well. maybe some of the royals past #1 picks would make it more doable. (they they get #1 picks all the time, being one of the worst teams in the majors?)

By Mitch

December 4, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

I see the Braves situation this way. While part of me says that we can’t logically rely on a rookie who has not played above Class A ball, to take over in center field for Andruw, I’m reminded of 1995, when a guy named Chipper “Dont call me Larry” Jones came up after but a cup of coffee, and was handed the third base job, and hit 23 hrs and had 86 RBI’s. I’m not saying Schaffer will do that, but all I am saying is that if Bobby, Frank and John decided to go this route, it has worked before. I think that our starting pitching is a strength we can deal from. Hudson, Smoltz, and Glavine are givens. These guys have always won in the big leagues, and, even though Tom will be 42 in March and Smoltz will be 41 in May, I think they will still have good seasons in 2008. In spite of the Mike Hampton question, I still think that the Braves can deal a starting pitcher to acquire a more experienced center fielder. Chuck James or Jo Jo Reyes would be most likely to go. However, the question becomes whether Frank Wren will mortgage all his cards to win now. Glavine has only a one year contract. We’ve speculated that Tommy may pitch in 2009, but, what happens if he has, say, a 12 and 14 record, with a 5.00 ERA in 2008? Does he decide to then retire, or do the Braves commit another 8-10 mil to someone who would be 43 in 2009, and had such a year in 2008? I’m not saying that will happen, but, with two of our top starters being 41 or older by May, Wren has a difficult choice to make. Hudson, and Chuck James, Reyes et al are our future. I personally think we need a more experienced center fielder, and I say, if Wren can find one at a decent price, Reyes or James are likely to go. It will be very interesting to see what Frank does.

Mitch

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

DOB — You missed my point on centerfield. I was trying to say it would not be my priority now. I would at least wait until spring training or the first month or so of the season to make that judgement. Seems like the worst case scenario would be going to an experienced good field, no hit guy at that time if Schafer or one of the other is apparently not ready. I don’t think Finley, for example, is going to get picked up by somebody else for money that would be prohibitive for the Braves. Just too early to make the decision that Schafer or one of the others is NOT ready.

Wayne - I see your points on pitching but when I look at the Braves rotation now what I see is the staff of a contender for sure BUT a couple years down the road these guys are all gone: Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton. I don’t see our 1-5 slots being filled anywhere near entirely by the balance of guys now under our control. One young stud would go a long way to hedging that bet. Also, think about this. If pitching is pricey now, think about what it will cost in $$ and talent 2-3 years from now. I see it as a win-win situation. If we can get a young stud now we are dynamite for ‘08 and hedge our bets for the longer term. Looking forward, just don’t think you can have too much pitching.

By Mike Honcho

December 4, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Here’s a good winter meetings discussion for the blog: Is Chipper Jones the least clutch great hitter in the league right now?

Don’t get me wrong (I know Chipper catches a lot criticism on here) I love Chipper. I think he is the best 3rd baseman since Schmidt (and I don’t count A-Rod). But what is Chipper’s iconic “I just did something truly unbelievable in the clutch” moment? Game 1 NLDS against the Rockies in 95? He did some incredible things in 99, but I can’t think of one that replays in my mind.

There’s no Pujols moon shot, you don’t get that inevitable feeling like you do with a Big Papi, or heck even a Francisco Caberara moment. I remember more moments like the 2002 NLDS against the Giants where he lined into a double play to end the series (because I was there swearing to my buddy if he got a hit I was going to storm the field).

Anyways, thought it would be an interesting discussion. Would this hurt his Hall chances?

By robertE

December 4, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

I just saw this. Cubs trade utility infielder Omar Infante and lefthander Will Ohman to the Atlanta Braves for righthander Jose Ascanio.

By A.J.

December 4, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Looks like Ohman is strickly a LOOGY.

Not great last season, .282 BAA, 4.95 ERA, but he is way better against lefties.

.236/.718 BAA/OPS against lefties, .325/.861 against righties.

He got killed at Wrigley last year, every one of his stats was worse there by a factor of at least 3 compared to road games. (8.66 ERA, 3.73 BAA, all three HR in just 17.2 IP)

On the road though he was good, so maybe if we never let him pitch at Wrigley he should be reliever of the year, .167 BAA on the road, no homers in 18.2 IP and a 1.45 ERA.

By Steve from OH

December 4, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

I suppose I like this deal. Ohman’s career WHIP is just about what Ascanio posted last year, and Infante is an above average backup for Yunel. The only thing I don’t like about Ohman is his ERA and WHIP have risen the last three years, but his BB/K ratios have been pretty good throughout his career (he’s averaging close to a strikeout/IP). Hate to give up young talent in Ascanio, but Wren fulfilled two needs pretty adequately.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

MLBTradeRumors reports, per ESPN Radio, that we’ve traded Ascanio for Ohman and Omar Infante. DOB, any word on this? Surprised I haven’t seen any comment on the blog about it from anyone…

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Infante and Ohman for Ascanio…..

By A.J.

December 4, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

dcarp

You can’t just WORD FOR WORD QUOTE another site. You should at least say where you are stealing the info from.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Can’t say I’m all that hot on this trade. Ohman will be a great addition. I thought the Braves should have went after him in ‘06 at the trade deadline. But, Omar Infante….? I would have rather had Ronny Cedeno or even Angel Pagan. I think the Braves could have done better in their quest for a backup SS/utility guy. I guess this means Brent Lillibridge starts the season in Richmond or gets traded.

The next move is to shop Chuck James and/or Matt Diaz for a stopgap CF and I guess now another reliever. Josh Hamilton is who I wish they would go after. But, will the Reds turn into the Devil Rays and act like the guy is the second coming of ManRam or something?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

A.J., check his stats in 2006, and his career numbers. Looks like he just had a bad year, got in Lou’s doghouse, etc. Not really old enough to expect he’s in steep decline now, since he hasn’t had a lot of arm problems and such.

By DAP

December 4, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

i think we are talking about trading the wrong pitcher. how how about trading jurjens, bennet or jojo, who havent done anything really in the majors?

i think hammy had it right. if we are going to upgrade the outfield, we should look for a slugging left fielder and leave center to blanco or anderson.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Anders, the Braves are 165-132 the last 3 years when McCann starts. 89-99 when he does not start. McCann is a big reason the Braves win.

In Smoltz’ career, Smoltz has a .654 OPS against with McCann as his catcher. Overall, lifetime, Smoltz has a .649 career OPS against. And McCann happens to be getting ahold of Smoltz when he is older and not as nasty as his stuff used to be.

In his career, with “catchers” like Berryhill, the OPS against for Smoltz is .656, with O’Brien who you referenced the OPS against for Smoltz is .696.

In 2006, Smoltz had a .671 OPS against with McCann, a .814 OPS against with Pratt, and a .791 OPS against with Pena.

In 2007, Hudson had a .650 OPS against with McCann and a .859 OPS against with Salty.

In 2006, Hudson had a .765 OPS against with McCann and a .790 OPS against with Pratt.

In 2007, Chuck James had a .772 OPS against with McCann and a .876 OPS against with Salty and a 1.095 OPS against with Corky Miller.

In 2007, Kyle Davies had a .744 OPS against with McCann and a .936 with Larue, a .948 with Salty, a .963 with Buck, and a 1.000 with Pena.

I think it is pretty clear therefore that McCann is much more than just a hitting catcher. The success of these pitchers when he is catching can not be a coincidence. He must be a good game caller and must have a way about him that comforts the minds and emotions of his pitchers.

Plus, although the Braves only threw out 23% of potential basestealers last season you have to dig deeper into the numbers to see that the inability is not as much McCann’s fault as it is who is pitching.

When the starters are pitching, the Braves throw out 28% of baserunners.

When relievers are pitching, the Braves only throw out 19% of baserunners.

That sounds like it has much more to do with who is pitching that affects how many bases are stolen rather than McCann.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Well we filled two needs with one trade. I like it. Infante is a pretty good backup SS and Ohman, while unspectacular, is solid enough.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Here’s a deal. The Braves package James and B. Pena (who is out of options so he must either be kept on the 25 man roster or released if not traded by opening day) and offer it to the Reds, Nats, Royals, A’s, or even the White Sox (Jerry Owens would be very nice in a Braves’ uniform) and see which team jumps at the offer. And, oh the Rangers (David Murphy) as well.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Here’s a good winter meetings discussion for the blog: Is Chipper Jones the least clutch great hitter in the league right now?

Mike Honcho Bill James, of all people disagrees completely with your assessment of Chipper not being a clutch hitter.

Read this article by Bill James and realize how dead wrong you are in your assessment of Chipper

By DB Cooper

December 4, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Ascanio can be traded, but please no to Manny Acosta. He was the man last year.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

I like the trade. Ascanio was going to be a longshot to make the squad. Infante is the prototypical backup middle infielder, who can handle third, and not embarrass in the outfield either.

My gut tells me either Ring or Ohman will make the squad, but not both.

Wow, we are now down to a centerfield stop gap and maybe a backup catcher. If FW can sign Damian Miller and send Chuckie for DeJesus, think of the money he could save on rooms and roomservice if they checked out this afternoon!!

By 22oz

December 4, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

i like the trade. Wren made it count, filling two holes by trading from the glutton of right handed relievers we have. While i don’t think Ohman is who you want up against Ryan Howard in September, it doesn’t matter, because we should get Mike Gonzalez back for the stretch run. Nothing wrong with Ohman for the first half. Our right handed stock of relievers still has Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Yates, Boyer, Devine, Bennett perhaps. We should be fine.

Infante will be a good backup, so there won’t be pressure to use Lillibridge and take away at-bats from other players to make sure he develops properly.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Braveheart I wasn’t saying anything about McCann’s game calling. I have no idea about his abilities there. If I was going to guess I would say they’re good just because of the system he came up in. I just think physically he’s not built to defend against the run etc.. We’ll see, not a huge deal. I like him as a player for sure. He has a good gamer make up.

By Fred from CT

December 4, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Infante has played some CF as well not suggesting he be are CF but if we go with the kids and it doesn’t work out infante has some experience there.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

MItch, there’s a huge difference between Schafer and Chipper. CJ spent approx half a season at AA and a full season at AAA before he got called up. Schafer hasn’t even spent a full season at A+ yet. Also, when Chipper was 23 in 1995, his rookie year. Shaffer is only 21.

By McFann

December 4, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Anders

I never said McCann’s defense was good. He would prob’ly have better foot work if his ankles weren’t so bad. But that’s not his fault. Eric Byrnes started that when he plowed into him on May 20, 2006, but that’s another story.

No, McCann is no Varitek, but keep in mind that Brian is only 23. He’s still got some learning to do, there’s no question.

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

A two-fer… what’s not to like about it. Looks like good insurance to me at least. I still think/hope a surprise is coming.

By 22oz

December 4, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Ok, two new people on the 40 man take the place of one. Who goes now? Willie?

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Ohman makes 1.6 million next year. Is Infante arbitration eligible?

Also, as 22oz mentions, who leaves the 40. My vote is for Willie too! (does my vote count?)

By DAP

December 4, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

pretty good trade i think. not really exciting, but it takes care of some needs.

By Cooper S

December 4, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Check out Ohman’s home/away splits: Career: 6.63/2.32 2007: 8.66/1.45

Looks like getting him out of Wrigley could make him pretty good

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

22oz.

It better be Willie.

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

I’m not exactly sure of how good a prospect Ascanio is but……

Looks like a GREAT deal for Wren. Wow.

Infante is a young utility guy that can play all over the place, specifically SS.

He’s only 25. He’s become a better hitter vs. lefties the past two years so he could spell Kelly sometimes.

He also plays CF at times. Could this pave the way for a lefty hitting CF???? Never know. (McLouth, please?)

Ohman is simply sick vs. lefties and away from Wrigley.

2005: .173 vs. lefties, 1.03 WHIP and 26 K’s in 23 innings. 1.57 ERA away from Wrigley.

2006: .158 vs. lefties, 1.00 WHIP and 42 K’s in 29 innings! 1.73 ERA away from Wrigley.

2007: .236 vs. lefties and 1.45 WHIP. Down year for this guy. 1.45 ERA away from Wrigley.

Shocked we’d actually spend a little money on a backup and lefty but this is a great deal!!!!!

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Chicago Tribune is reporting that the Braves are interested in Nate McLouth.

I want some serious props if this comes to fruition.

I’ve been calling this since September on this blog.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Wayne, Ken Rosenthal estimated Infante should make about $1.5 mil in arbitration.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Reported in the Alpharetta Gazzette: Upon hearing the Braves had aquired lefty journeyman reliever Will Ohman from the Cubs Tom Glavine said the following - “I’m a little surpised that we acquired another lefty middle reliever. I was under the impression that would be my role on the team. Having given more thought to next year I really don’t see myself as a 3rd or 4th starter next year nor do I want to pitch with the pressure of those expectations on me. I plan on speaking to Frank Wren when he returns from Nashville. Maybe I can be our designated sacrifice bunter or something.” John Smoltz said “having TG as a designated bunter would be neat - if I can use that word.” Chipper added ” I was hoping we would have traded Ascanio for my Gold Glove and Silver Slugger trophy’s that are up in NY.”

By VENEZUELA

December 4, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

ANYONE who knows INFANTE has to know this was a GREAT TRADE !!! heck thats what the cubs received for Jacque Jones INFANTE is above AVERAGE with THE GLOVE…he could end up being THE BEST UTILITY SS out in the NL for sure…

He is playing here IN MY country and has always ripped the ball…cant tell you how better he is with the glove

OHMAN i have no clue !!! Hope he is signed through 2009 at least…

DOB DOB

How long are we going to have these two guys…for more than 1 season ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

By Kieran from Long Island

December 4, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Ascanio may be young but he didnt really impress me much at all last year. At first I thought the deal was for Acosta who pitched excellent last year, so i’m happy they keep him. This means another roster move must be made, correct? WHo gets the boot this time? Hopefully they trade someone for a minor leaguer rather then just cutting them like they did to cormier. I find it hard to believe that with such a need for pitching around the league that they couldnt have spun him to a team like the Orioles or Drays for a minor leaguer or something. But oh well.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Probably a little over 3 million for these two. Not a bad trade. I like it.

Center field targets= Dejesus and Mclouth. I really hope FW is working the phones for those two.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Infante is arb-eligible (fifth year) and made 1.3 mill last season. Should be under 2 mill, I’d guess.

Ohman will get $1.6 mill in 2008, in second year of a two-year deal.

By McFann

December 4, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Waytago, Bravesheart!! I agree 100%!! Please tell me where you found these stats, ‘cause that’s the kind of stuff I like to know BIG TIME!!

Hudson won a lot more games with McCann behind the plate than he did with anyone else. Unfortunately, I don’t have the exact record, but perhaps I can get back to you all on that.

As a matter of fact, McCann not only helped Hudson with his game calling, but with his bat as well. He hit .306 for Timmy (38 for 124). He hit his first GS of ‘07 for Tim, and let’s not forget May 30, when his bases-loaded double against the Brewers saved a game that was almost lost 2-1 on a wild pitch.

Hudson pitched only one complete game in 2007, and guess who was catching……

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Looks like we just added about 2.4 million to the payroll. Add in these two guys salaries and subtract two minimum wage guys.

By Robert S

December 4, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I also like the Ohman-Infante for Ascanio deal. Ascanio does have upside, and he may develop into a fine power reliever, but let’s face it - the Braves needed one lefty to fill out the ‘pen, and they got him, and they got a decent backup infielder as well, for only one player who, frankly, was expendable. As long as they don’t trade Acosta…..

Heard that Steve Finley has been talking to ball clubs hoping to get signed, but I believe it’s wishful thinking on his part. He hasn’t batted over .246 since 2004, and he’s 42. And he’s not Julio Franco. Nuff said.

That being said, I hope the Braves do try to find a stop gap CF, like a Xavier Nady (I know, I know, he’s not a full-time CF, he’s mostly a RF, but that didn’t stop anyone from suggesting that Francoeur move from CF to RF!). He’s a guy that can hit with some pop, play solid defense, and he’s like a Reggie Sanders in that he’ll wind up being a journeyman his whole career. Good enough to be a starter, but not good enough to stay with one club for long. Josh Hamilton might be a good option, but I wonder whether last year was a fluke or a good omen, given his past demons, and as for Chris Duffy, I’ll pass……

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

More Chipper bashing? Are people just complete and total idiots? How do you look yourself in the mirror in the morning? I will agree that it sucks he isn’t healthy like he was in his youth when he played 155 games a season for 8 straight years. But check this out, Chipper Jones, the man so many fools like to target, was better than Albert Pujols last season. Jones had an OPS+ of 166, Pujols, 157.
Chipper played in 24 fewer games and hit only 3 fewer home runs. He had the same number of RBI’s and more runs than Pujols. He hit for higher average, OBP and Slugging. Chipper’s OPS was 1.029, Pujols was 0.997. Year in, year out Chipper isn’t always better than Pujols. But it is the company he is in. And last season, he was better than Pujols. And, like Braveheart pointed out, even though the resident SABR disciple doesn’t believe in clutch hitting, Bill James, the leader of all SABR thought, does. And James himself has written that Chipper is one of the most clutch hitters in the majors.
Chipper is a hall of famer. Maybe someday the idiots will get that through their thick skulls.

Sorry to bust onto the blog with such a post, but sometimes, sometimes it’s just too much.

This deal for the lefty and the backup is interesting. At first I was bummed because I always mixed up Ascanio and Acosta. But we kept the good one and traded the other, so I’m not too upset about this. I just hope this guy is used properly and can perform.
Omar Infante. It’s a slight step up from Miami Vice on the bench. Ever so slight. I hope Infante turns in a good year as well. I’m just glad I don’t have to see that stupid ex-Met come into the game to destroy all the good work of the more talented.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Braves are going to designate Willie Harris for assignment to make room. Can still re-sign him to a minor-league deal if he doesn’t get claimed, which I’m pretty sure he won’t be since teams all have their 40-man rosters set.

By Smitty

December 4, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Anders is retarded.

DOB: Any truth that Ohman is a bad clubhouse guy and we might flip him for one of the lefties in Pittsburgh?

By Lew

December 4, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Anders-Serious question time. What do you think of Omar’s assertion that the Mets have enough pitching? Also, who besides Reyes do you include as speedsters and potential base stealing threats on the Mets?

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Kieran, why would FW have traded Ascanio for a minor leaguer when he could get two “known quantities” AND fill two areas of need?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Anders, what did Tommy ever do to you, man? You aren’t blaming him for that monumental collapse are you?

If I had my choice I would take DeJesus over McClouth. But, McClouth would work as well. James for McClouth and Marte perhaps. Throw in Prado with James. Maybe convince them to give up Zach Duke?

By Desperado Dave

December 4, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Not a bad deal. Ohman is the lefty in the pen. The Braves have no shortage of rightys. Infante on a bench that will include Aybar, Prado, Thorman

By Brave Fan

December 4, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Willie DFAed? Hopefully we sign him to a minor league deal…

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

[Chipper] did some incredible things in 99, but I can’t think of one that replays in my mind

This one comes to mind. It was September 11th, 2005 against the Nationals. I remember watching Chipper step to the plate and the look in his eyes, he was so locked in you knew he was going to crush the ball. And, bam, that thing soared out of the park. Braves won after coming back in the top of the 9th against Chad Cordero. That was a good game. There are plenty more as well, but that was the first one to enter my head.

By DAP

December 4, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

why dont we offer the pirates diaz, prado and chuck james for jason bay. then we’d have a slugger in left, b. jones can stay on the team and back up LF and RF, and anderson or blanco can man CF without worrying about offense.

OR, same package, diaz, prado and james, but throw in b. jones and/or a minor leaguer like lillibridge or gorkys to the blue jays and pickup alex rios. rios and francouer are alot alike. we would have mirror image in LF/RF, no pressure to produce offensively for our CF.

can you imagine a lineup of escobar, johnson, chipper, tex, bay/rios, francouer, mccann, blanco? that would be fun.

By DAP

December 4, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

TommyP He also plays CF at times. Could this pave the way for a lefty hitting CF???? Never know. (McLouth, please?)

blacno hits lefty. so does mr. anderson.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, any legs to the McClouth and DeJesus rumors and have the Braves expressed any interest in Josh Hamilton or Wily Mo Pena?

By Lew

December 4, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

I told everyone that Willie was a longshot to even make the team, much less start in center. He’s gone-at least I hope so.

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

DAP: Well aware of that but I’m not buying the company line that they’ll go to April with these 3 fighting it out for CF.

By Mike Honcho

December 4, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

I appreciate the article, very interesting. But I’d remind you that statistical studies are like bikinis (or the too revealing dresses that DOB is seeing in Nashville) what they reveal may be interesting, but what they cover up is essential.

This type of study (Clutch Hitting) is far more empirically based than the two first named guru would like to admit. The reason I say this is because you can’t study clutch hitting the same way you do a normal at bat. That’s great that Chipper has a high batting average in clutch situations but what if the majority of those hits are singles that lead to a .220 hitting Andruw Jones to come up? Yes technically it’s clutch because the hit is in furtherance of the rally, but I would say clutch includes more than just being able to draw a walk or to continue a rally. Clutch is saying “I’m ending the game right now.”

Therefore, taking my sense data as all the evidence I need, I see a propensity for Chipper to pull a 2002 NLDS than to pull a Joe Carter, Pujols, Papi, or a Caberara (Francisco that is).

Don’t get me wrong, I still love Chipper and love watching him play. He is the epitome of a team player (and despite what people say on the blog) plays hurt. But answer this honestly: Don’t you see a difference between Chipper and the already iconic performances that Francoeur has put up in the clutch?

Who would you rather have at the plate on this Braves team with a playoff series on the line?

Chipper is fourth on my list behind: Jeff “You know I’m going yard here” Francouer, Brian “Geez I have one modest season and suddenly y’all think I’m a garbage” McCann, and Mark “Ca-Ching” Texeira, then Hoss.

I would love DOB’s thoughts on this.

TN Paul Love your passion, but I’m not Chipper bashing. Just merely trying to start a discussion. No pathos needed.

Anyways, thanks for helping me procrastinate during law school finals.

Shake and Bake

By Brave Fan

December 4, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Some friend of mine working at the winter meetings heard that DeJesus for James is essentially done. Is this true?

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

I get sick every time I read all this about dumping Chuck James for a stop gap. Seems like a waste of a talented pitcher to me. I’ve read all the critisms of Chuck but, the truth is, he had a league average ERA and a winning record. That would be our 4th or 5th starter. That’s a good thing. We shouldn’t have to worry so much about the innings he pitches this coming season due to the fact that we got Glavine. And his high pitch count, low innings total isn’t only about a lack of a 3rd pitch as much as it is a lack of consistancy from the guy. If he becomes more consistant, he’ll go deeper into games.
Of course, if the game plan is to limit Glavine’s innings and go with a solid 6 man rotation, it’s all moot and we’ve wasted 8 million and weakened our bench (we’d have to carry 13 pitchers to make a 6 man effective which leaves less room on the bench for subs). To say the least, I hope this idea is not implemented.
As for Chuck, I hope we hold on to this guy. Last season was his second “full season” in the majors (he did go down 2 years ago to change from reliever to starter) and first full season as a starter. I think some forget this, that he hasn’t been up for that long, or a starter for that long in the majors. I think he has a solid chance of being a good pitcher. He could use a little more focus in the offseason and during the season. Hopefully he’s learned as much. Whatever happens though, I hope we don’t have to see JoJo in the rotation this coming season. That kid needs more time down on the farm. His minor league numbers are nowhere close to James’ numbers. His major league number are horrid. Basically, James has done more with 2 pitches and no velocity than JoJo has ever done at any level of the game with a full arsenal of pitches and more velocity. James had a 4 to 1 K to BB ratio in the minors and so far in the majors it’s at least 2 to 1. His walks are up, he pitches deeper into counts and runs up pitch totals real fast for early exists. No pitcher can survive deep into games if they aren’t efficient and consistent. Besides, he had a sub 4 ERA all the way up until he was injured.
And lastly, what is the point of getting Glavine to coach the “Young Glavine” if we turn around and trade the “Young Glavine”? Perhaps a season with Glavine would turn Chuck around.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

DAP, that offer to the Blue Jays I think is really good. But, would the Jays bite on it? Probably not.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

With reference to McCann, for example, the Braves throw out 36% of baserunners (22 of 61) when Smoltz, Hudson, JoJo, Buddy, Redman, Devine, Gonzalez, Mahay, Ring, and Chuck James pitch.

Braves catchers on the other hand throw out only 11.9% (8 of 67) of the baserunners trying to seal bases when the other pitchers pitched.

It really looks like whatever problems the Braves have throwing out base runners has less to do with their catchers and more to do with their pitchers.

Baserunners usually steal off the pitcher and not the catcher.

By Get you some

December 4, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, if you haven’t done it, you HAVE to visit Prince’s Hot Chicken Shack for Nashville’s signature hot chicken. For the unititiated, its spicy fried chicken. Not Popeyes or Bojangles, this is REALLY hot. And delicious. And an institution. And you must go if you can. You’ll wait a long time for the food, but you might run into a country music star, or the mayor. It’s a great place to people watch.

By Novice Ned

December 4, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

I guess this gives Ring a year to get consistent, but it seems the Braves are always acquiring a lefty reliever for 1 season and then having to use their farm system to acquire yet another lefty the following year. Isn’t there ALWAYS a need for a lefty reliever? So why rent them in annual increments?

And when Chipper misses his 15-25 games next season, does Infante take over at SS and Escobar move to 3rd?

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Is Chipper Jones the least clutch great hitter in the league right now?* Mike Honcho*

you obviously didn’t read the article I linked about Bill James rethinking on clutch hitters. He specifically mentions Chippy as one of the best around. So I guess he ain’t one of the worst. Sorry.

By Kieran from Long Island

December 4, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

chrisklob -

Sorry if my text was confusing, I was referring to Lance Cormier not Ascanio. I was saying I liked the trade for ascanio. Then I said that when they have to clear a roster spot i hope they do it with a trade and not by just cutting someone. (Turns out they’re cutting willie Harris who prob will get through waivers anyway so its a moot point.)

My Main point was I thought that they could have got somethign for Lance Cormier with the lack of pitching depth around teh league. I know a team like the Drays, or orioles, or even the mets would love to have a guy like Cormier, it’s a shame they didnt get something for him.

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

MLB4U reports the Pirates will Non tender Nady if they can’t move him. He might be a good bench guy or back up for OF. Be nice to have experience and power off the bench. Not sure what it would take to sign him or why the Buccos would cut him loose.He had 25+ Hr and 80+ RBIs. But it is the Pirates so logic doesn t come into play I guess. Maybe they just signed him for TOO much money and need to get it off the books. Anyone with insight on this?

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

That’s great that Chipper has a high batting average in clutch situations but what if the majority of those hits are singles
This is the point of slugging and OBP. Slugging measures the rate at which Chipper, or any hitter, collects bases by swinging the bat. An OPS of over 1.000 shows that Chipper is not just collecting singles. A slugging of practically .600 means he’s getting his fair share of 2B, 3B and HR as well.

Clutch is saying “I’m ending the game right now.”

Not all Clutch situations offer the ability to “End the game right now”. Road games in particular prevent him from “Ending the game right now”.

Don’t you see a difference between Chipper and the already iconic performances that Francoeur has put up in the clutch
So, you mean, early in Francoeur’s career as compared to late in Chipper’s career? Or can we go back to Chipper’s early career? The part that you already acknowledged, then glossed over and pointed to more recent times, later in his career. So we are to over look Chipper’s MVP in his 4th season in the majors and only compare the last few seasons to the first few of a kid more than a decade younger.
Shouldn’t we wait and see if Francoeur can string together 8 straight years of 155+ games, with 100+ RBI’s and 30+ HRs, a .300 average, 10+ Division Titles, a World Title, Several NL Championships, and a bank of high marks in the clutch before we rank him higher? Perhaps Francoeur goes on to do all this then gets injured for 3 straight seasons. Would he no longer be as clutch as the next young stud that came up and therefore his whole career should have a shadow of doubt cast over it?

By Bravesfan79

December 4, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

If this new lefty isnt as good as Mahay, then this was a TERRIBLE TRADE! I thought we had $$…why is a extra $3million 2 much? And whos this backup infielder we got? PLease dont tell me we got another Chris Woodcrap!?? Why dont we rely on one of our young players from the minors to be the backup?? Its not like Bobby dosent use the backups almost everyday anyways. And for Gods sake…DONT trade for a CF…dont we already have like 3 or 4 anyways that are close to being ready??
And our top priority now should be resigning Tex!!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

TP, I agree with you but in principle here is the problem. The Braves really need an experienced CF in the lineup (for now) who can provide some offense. We all know Chipper is prone to going down for a couple of weeks. I love Chipper to death but the truth is the truth. Not to mention why not get something for James now? If he has another mediocre year, which is entirely possible if not probable, his value goes down. Yes, DeJesus would be a “stopgap” but a very good one who can either be traded when Schafer is truly ready or move to LF if B. Jones doesn’t pan out. A good solid “stopgap” would not only serve as a stopgap in CF but could serve as insurance in case of B. Jones not performing. Diaz, as good as he is, is a bit sketchy as an everyday player. Not sure if he would really produce.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Braves are going to designate Willie Harris for assignment to make room.

I just saw this. What a waste of talent. I can’t believe it. I thought the plan was to use Willie in Left. Move Francoeur to third. Put Chipper at 1B. McCann in Right. Yunel at second. KJ in center. Diaz catching. Thorman at short and Teixeira as the first base coach.
This team is doomed if Willie gets away. Doomed I say.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t see the Pirates no-tendering Nady. That would be like the Braves non-tendering Diaz. Not gonna happen.

Any of these outfielders would be a good addition for the Braves: Hamilton, Rios, DeJesus, Nady, etc.

Sounds more and more like James might be a goner. JS has often times sold high. That is another reason Diaz might be gone too.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

OK, back at the computer now. Had to attend a BBWAA board meeting, deciding on membership rules and such.

Good trade for Braves, though Ascanio could end up being a solid guy. Had to give up something to get two needs filled.

Ohman’a a typically colorful (or flaky, however you want to put it) lefty, from what I hear.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

This type of study (Clutch Hitting) is far more empirically based than the two first named guru would like to admit. The reason I say this is because you can’t study clutch hitting the same way you do a normal at bat. That’s great that Chipper has a high batting average in clutch situations but what if the majority of those hits are singles that lead to a .220 hitting Andruw Jones to come up?

Then they wouldn’t be clutch-hitting situations. James was talking about atbats that really mean something. Not only game-on-the-line, but important especially meaningful games. I thought he was pretty specific about that.

By ssiscribe

December 4, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Real quick one from the Scribe as duty calls, but I like this deal.

Infante gives you lots of versatility off the bench and solves the question of who backs up Escobar at short. He also has experience in the outfield.

Ohman is a decent arm who is tough on leftys. I’ll take my chances with him and Ring as my lefties on opening day.

I like Ascanio, but I liked Acosta better. I’m glad it was Jose and not Manny who was dealt. Acosta, for what it’s worth, is four years younger than Ascanio.

That’s all I got, as I catch up from my trips last week.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Mitch The problem is you have seen Chipper too often. You are too intimately familiar with his failures in the clutch. So, you became jaded and forget all the great moments he has had.

With fellas like Jeter, Pujols, Ortiz, we only see them perform in the clutch when Sportscenter flips out because they sneezed and wiped their butts just so in the clutch. Every hit, homer, and walk they do in the clutch is celebrated non-stop for 36 hours. We don’t see them as much day in and day out fail in the clutch. Sportscenter does not often show that.

Unfortunately, when Chipper hits a big homer or gets a big hit, it is not as often shown in hysterical fashion on Sportscenter the way the heroics of Jeter, Pujols, and Papi are so Chipper’s heroics often go unnoticed nationally and even here locally for the casual fan.

Chipper has not done much differently in other seasons than he did in 1999 except that in 1999 Chipper was the story and he happened to hit some big homers against the Mets. The New York media and the national media that follows the Big Apple media then made Chipper all the buzz. Chipper essentially was THE STORY that year because the media created the story. Chipper damn well deserved the MVP that year but nothing he did in the clutch that year is much different than things he has been doing all along throughout all the years. His failures in the clutch in 1999 were glossed over just as much as they are scrutinized today.

But in 1999 Chipper was the story for the media. He became the national media darling. It is no different than a Heisman campaign. After 1999, Chipper became old news like the Braves also became old news so the things that Chipper does in the clutch don’t catch the same shine nationally that they did in 1999 or as much shine as the media darlings Jeter, Pujols, and Papi get today.

Thus, although Chipper is just as clutch as any of those guys, the perception is that he isn’t because nationally he is no longer the media darling and locally too many of us see him everyday and those of us who are glass half empty types only remember the bad moments. We think those other guys are incredibly clutch as compared to Chipper because we are not exposed to their failures the same way we are exposed to Chipper’s failures.

As for wanting Frenchy, McCann, and Tex up instead of Chipper, you are crazy. They only reason you want Frenchy, McCann, and Tex up now is because Tex, Frenchy, and McCann are brand new to you. Chipper has become old news to you. You have not yet become bitter watching the Braves in every inning of every damn last game and have not yet witnessed them fail in the clutch enough. Give it a few years and you will be applauding the clutch heroics of a brand new young kid and sound just as jaded as you do now about the supposed clutch heroics of Tex, Frenchy, and McCann.

Plus, there is much more pressure on Chipper in the clutch than there is on Frenchy and McCann. Frenchy and McCann will have excuses provided for them because they are not yet middle of the order guys and they are young. So, when they actually do something, it is a different reaction. They make you say wow. However, when Chipper does something great, the feeling is more of big deal, he was supposed to do that, why didn’t he hit 475 feet instead of 450 feet?

And ask fans across the country which hitter on the Braves they least want to see staring at their pitcher. Most fans across the country are gonna say the last thing they wanna see is that eat sh!t cocky arrogant SOB grin of Chipper glaring out under that helmet towards the pitcher’s mound.

Since he is hanging around, let’s ask Anders a damn Mets fan. Anders, how has Larry treated your Mets in the clutch over the years?

By rich brave

December 4, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART:

Thanks for the background info on your 9:03 a.m. post. I was unaware of that, but it surely fits Chuck’s current situation. For the Braves I think there’s an upside for James-Glavine’s mentoring. Don’t you get a sense that the organization felt CJ to be the second coming of Tommy? And now that there really IS a second go round for Glavine, IF the Braves can’t move him this winter, at least there will be someone yelling in his ear all spring. I just don’t see James becoming a long-term Brave unless this LAST shot at redemption is taken to heart by the kid. I certainly hope he’s listening to what the Braves are saying.

By Desperado Dave

December 4, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

I think Chuck James for David DeJesus would be a horrible trade. Starting pitchers are at a premium, especially at these winter meetings. There have to be better stop-gap options than DeJesus that wouldn’t cost you a starter off of your current roster. In addition to the premium on starters right now, James would benefit from working with Tom Glavine and thus make him even more valuable to the Braves. I don’t care for the DeJesus option at all.

By B

December 4, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

DAP- How about your offer to the Pirates for Snell, Doumit and MClouth. Maybe we throw in another minor leaguer or 2. I also like your deal to Jays- Love Rios

By Lew

December 4, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Mike Honcho_ all of your arguments are totally immaterial. Chipper will be our number three hitter until he retires. That is all that matters. What are you planning on doing? Pinch hitting Francoeur, Tex or McCann for Chipper?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Ohman last season at Wrigley: 8.66 ERA and .373 opp avg/.404 OBP/.614 slugging in 27 appearances.

And on the road: 1.45 ERA and .167/.203/.212 in 29 appearances.

Wow. Now THAT is a disparity for the ages. Reverse of Wickman’s home/road numbers in 2007.

In 2006, Ohman was 7.14 ERA and .252 OA at home, 1.73 ERA and .169 OA on the road.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

If Ohman is a colorful individual, that is a definite plus! TM is still gonna be disappointed though, as we are releasing Willie Harris, and not adding back two black players. I think Ohman is German, and Infante is Venezuelan. What a wasted opportunity to reach the racial quotas.

:-)

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

I think Scott Boras will be and should be fired by Andruw Jones in the near future. The man may have cost him millions not to mention alienating him from the team he appears to truely love. I think Scott Boras is the only person stopping Andruw from inking a deal right now

While I’m not a big fan of Boras, AJ not signing is probably in his best interest. Once Johan is traded, the CF market expands. Both Boston and New York are talking about including their top CF player. Both those teams could squeeze AJ into the payroll and line up. If DeJesus is moved, AJ becomes an even bigger target for the Royals. (While KC might not be able to out-bid in dollar figures, so far they appear ready to out bid in duration, with LA at 2 years and KC at 4, but it still looks like a slim chance).
No, AJ not signing yet should help him out. As long as he doesn’t wait til Spring Training, which he won’t. As soon as the dust has settled from the plethera of trades, AJ will have a place to sit and will make some serious money in the process. Probably not what Boras was claiming he’d make. (I think this was part of the reason AJ was put on waivers. JS was measuring the market for AJ).

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Can Infante play CF, too? If so, Frank needs to take a lap around the Gaylord and head for the showers.

Do NOT move Chuck James. DO give Tom Glavine one year to work with the boy.

Plus, I’m nervous about dealing with Drayton at KC…he already got Davies for a one-month reliever.

He knows too much…

By Mike Honcho

December 4, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul,

Pujols’ homer on the road at Houston in the NLCS pretty much ended that game for all intents and purposes (and pretty much a career for that matter)

By ssiscribeat's

December 4, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

CORREX: Ascanio actually is the one four years younger, not Acosta.

That’s what I get for hurrying. Sorry for any confusion. Simply flip-flopped the birthdates.

Anyway, like the deal. And I thought either Acosta or Ascanio would go at some point this winter. You deal from a position of strength. To fill those two holes and only give up one arm, yeah, I’ll take that.

OK, before I foul up anything else, back to duty.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By McFann

December 4, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Oh no!!

By McFann

December 4, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Oh no!! The Braves designated Willie Harris for assignment!! What will Terence Moore think of this?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

TennPaul: Very funny post at 12:55 p.m.

By Desperado Dave

December 4, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, are you hearing that that David DeJesus for Chuck James is a done deal? I heard that here as well as from two other sources. If that doesn’t get done, what is Atlanta’s interest in Josh Hamilton and Cory Patterson?

By Roger

December 4, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard anything corroborating the Tribune report that connects the Braves and McLouth?

By Anders

December 4, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Lew I think Omar is posturing. Much the same as Andy Pettiite announcing he’s coming back right in the middle of the whole sordid Santana affair. That announcement was made for the Twins ears not the bloated Yankee fans who get a $50mil player per week.I’m sure Omar knows other GM’s are listening. As for your second question about speed David Wright is a 30 stolen base guy and Beltran can run when he’s healthy (23 last year). Chavez can run when he’s in the game. Castillo even had 19 last year on bad knees.It only takes a few guys to disrupt a game with speed. The whole line up doesn’t have to be road runners. Now a serious question for you - One I’ve asked DOB with no response - Do you feel as I do that the Milledge trade makes the Mets a better team next year? We all know the risk of Milledge’s now Willie Mays ceiling possibilities as opposed to the slug he was when he was a Met property.

By A.J.

December 4, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, I wasn’t saying Ohman is bad or anything, I said he wasn’t great last year, but I meant compared to his previous years. I think this was a good move. Even in a tough year like last year he was more than serviceable against lefties. Plus he’s a pretty good K/9 IP guy too looks like. Even in a bad year he had 33 K in 36.1 IP.

I think the whole, away from Wrigley numbers thing is hilarious, one of those really interesting things to see how it works out.

Sounds like it could be like old-school JS, grab a guy with middling value who is just screaming for a change of scenery. Get him away from his overbearing manager and give him Bobby.

Seems like he could be better than advertised, and should at least work.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Sorry that last post was meant for Mike Honcho and not Mitch. This one is meant for Mike Honcho as well.

Go look at that Bill James article again. You say Chipper does not get the big homer or extra base hit enough.

James identified 394 at bats in the clutch for Ortiz. Ortiz had 33 doubles, 1 triple, 35 homers, and 64 walks.

In the 360 at bats of Chipper in similar situations, Chipper had 24 doubles, 25 homers and 80 walks

In 389 at bats for Pujols in similar situations, Pujols had 27 doubles, 2 triples, 30 homers, and 91 walks.

Notice the walks. Who hits behind Ortiz? Manny freaking Ramirez. Ortiz has to be pitched to. He can’t be walked and he can’t be pitched around. Ortiz therefore gets many more pitches grooved to him in big spots than Chipper or Pujols who have no comparable hitter standing behind them on the on deck circle.

Sometimes, the best thing Chipper and Pujols can do is take a walk because they are not being given very much to hit. Ortiz on the other hand gets an orgy of grooved pitches to hack away and try to end the game with.

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Jamming to the Black Crowes! sweet. DOB Are you a Crowes fan?

Last winter Rios coulda been gotten for very little . Jays tried a one for one with the Marlins for Scott Olsen AND the MARLINS REJECTED the offer. Bet they wish they could have that one back

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB): It goes back to what you’ve been saying, I’ve been saying, and many others have been saying, we wish Wren had pulled in more pitching talent. Young, reliable, pitching talent. Our best, young, reliable, pitching talent is James. And here we are entertaining the option to trade young, reliable pitching talent away from the Braves. Moving James means JoJo, Jair or Jeff are slotting into the rotation. Moving James, and having Hampton’s Hammy already acting up means having two from that group of J’s in the rotation. James is our most experienced young starter with the best minor league and major league track record.
Yes, we need more than a rookie in CF. I agree 100% with that. But dumping James for a stop gap, to me, is a bad move. If James is traded, then I’d hope it would be for something more long term than a season, or half season’s worth of league average center field skills.
Yes I said it, league average. And I recall earlier posts where I wanted at least league average. But even then I wouldn’t want to trade our best, most accomplished young starter, for a stop gap league average player. Especially after only 1 season as a full time starter. And especially when we have a plethera of middle infielders and center fielders in the minors as well. Gotta think at least some combination of our surplus minor league talent would be enough to acquire a league average stop gap center fielder and not weaken our starting rotation.

By David

December 4, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

I despise this trade. Cubs fans must be laughing about this one. Ascanio has upside. Ohman was sent down to the minors late last year.

I’m normally a rah-rah fan but between this and the July 31st nonsense, our trades are driving me nuts. At least we got proper value for Edgar.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Agree with TPaul and Desperado that trading James for DeJesus is a bad move. After the big three (Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine), Chuck is the only proven commodity among our “wealth” of starting pitching.

I have high hopes for Hampton (hey, I alliterated - should be a journalist!), but you sure can’t count on him at this point; and also for Jurrjens - but another year in the minors would be great for him. I’m not so sold on Jo-Jo or Bennett, but of course hope for the best for the best for them.

Last year, we traded HoRam, who was much “worse” than James, for one of the best setup men in the game. Now, that was a good trade of a starting pitcher. Trading a 25-year-old starter with a 4.00 career era for a stopgap just doesn’t make sense to me.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Pujols’ homer on the road at Houston in the NLCS pretty much ended that game for all intents and purposes (and pretty much a career for that matter)

Yeah. That was a great homerun. I’ll never forget it. Not sure how that settles the Chipper/Francoeur clutch talk, but whatever. Glad you brought it up. It always makes me smile and I look forward to Chipper knocking Lidge all over Citizens Bank Park in 2008.

By Adam

December 4, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Mike Honcho,

When you state:

• That’s great that Chipper has a high batting average in clutch situations but what if the majority of those hits are singles that lead to a .220 hitting Andruw Jones to come up? Yes technically it’s clutch because the hit is in furtherance of the rally, but I would say clutch includes more than just being able to draw a walk or to continue a rally. Clutch is saying “I’m ending the game right now.” -

I disagree that clutch is saying I’m ending the game right now. Clutch in my book is not trying to do more then what the pitcher is giving you in a situation. If Chipper or anyone for that matter doesn’t get a pitch to drive in a situation and the other team feels there odds are better with the hitter behind him, what is that hitter suppose to do? When hitters usually get into trouble is when they try and do more than what the pitcher is giving them an opportunity to do. If the pitcher is working the hitter soft down and away, the hitter really can only do so much with that pitch. If he tries to drive that pitch out of the park, you see what Andruw did a lot of last year…off balance swings, strike outs and weak grounders to short.

Chipper is a good hitter and if he gets a pitch to drive, he usually doesn’t miss it regardless of the situation. That’s why he almost won a batting title. So to say he isn’t clutch because many of his hits were singles in that situation, you should also look at what the pitch was and it’s location and who was on deck. Chipper got pitched around a lot last year because of the way Andruw approached at bats.

By Josh H

December 4, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

From Braveheart Notice the walks. Who hits behind Ortiz? Manny freaking Ramirez. Ortiz has to be pitched to. He can’t be walked and he can’t be pitched around. Ortiz therefore gets many more pitches grooved to him in big spots than Chipper or Pujols who have no comparable hitter standing behind them on the on deck circle.

It will be interesting to see how many walks Chipper Jones draws this year in clutch situations, with Mark freakin Texeira batting behind him.

I’d like to think he instills the fear in opposing pitchers almost as much as Manny :)

By Greg in TN

December 4, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Afternoon folks…

Frank is blowing the smoke off the barrell of his .357 and has it reholstered by now. Not the biggest trade he’ll make in his Braves career, but I think it key for the 2008 season. I really really like this trade. Hate to see Ascanio go, but looking at Ohman’s splits lefty versus righty and home and away for 2007, I think he’s going to be just fine in the ivy free environment of the Ted.

I also think Infante is a solid backup for middle infield and the outfield and can even play a little 3B if necessary.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

DOB Good trade for Braves, though Ascanio could end up being a solid guy. Had to give up something to get two needs filled.

Take out the word Braves, insert Mets. Take out the name Ascanio and insert the name Milledge. Same church (no pun)different pew (no pun again).

By Hammy the Brave

December 4, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I really like this trade by FW. He is starting to strike me as very organized and methodical, and I think he is quicker to fill needs then JS ever was. The 2 for 1 aspect of the trade greatly impresses me.

Ohman is someone I had considered as a darkhorse lefty for a while. People need to look at his stats for his career, instead of just 2007, and I think he can be a lefty setup man to Soriano(get righties out as well). Good work by Tommy P to find his stats away from Wrigley, that makes me feel even better. Infante is above average with the glove, and while he may have a low OBP, he can hit for some average and maybe some pop. While Ascanio was a good prospect, IMO, righty relief was definately an area of strength.

Could you talk with the pittsburgh beat writers DOB? Would the Pirates consider trading Snell and Nady, for some Braves combo of: James, Diaz, Dan Smith, maybe even Brandon Jones?

Or would Toronto consider something similar, for Dustin McGowan and Armando Rios(they have no lefty starter at all)? Again, I’m only interested in trading Chuck James for a ML hardthrowing starter, and hopefully as a package to get righty power, to replace AJones.

Thanks again for the meeting updates, to soothe the savage Braves beasts(fans),

   Hammy the Brave

By ppaddy123

December 4, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Braveheart 1:26PM, Ol’ Chip won’t have to worry about not seeing strikes this year with Texeira hitting behind him. I look for him to have another monster year this year!

By Adam

December 4, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

I would have no problem trading Chuck James. This guy is a 2 pitch pitcher who often struggles with the strike zone and really isn’t suited for starting unless he finds a 3rd pitch. Right now he is a long reliever type. A strong 3 inning pitcher. Once a lineup has seen him, he becomes much less effective because they have probably seen both of his pitches and sit on one of them. DeJesus could be a nice piece in the outfield next year and bring something in value in trade the following year if that’s the direction the Braves decide to go. Lets be honest, Chuck James is right now a #5 starter at best. His ERA went up a half a run from the previous year. He is following the same path and Horacio Ramirez which doesn’t give me a lot of comfort.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Braveheart As I’ve said repeatedly on this blog - If I’m playing a game 7 WS game and can have anyone I want over the last 20 years at each position I put Chipper on 3rd. I’m stunned that him going to the HOF is even debatable. I have no idea how many walkoff dramatic HR’s and such he has, but his body of work is awesome. Great hitter, real good glove and most importantly a team guy. Left money on the table and has switched positions for the team. Find me another guy of his caliber who’s done both of those things.

By B

December 4, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

I think its obvious the Braves want more than just defensive skills in CF. If that was true they had WILLIE Harris who could really play D. That said, I believe another bigger trade is coming. RJIB I agree with the pitching, we need all we can get. I believe Wren also is looking behind the scene for a LF in case we trade Diaz. Still need another starter. I want to win 2008, may not live till 09. DOB what wake up call did you get this morning?

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Many are fearful of trading Chuck James, but the Braves have often times sold high. It’s always a crap shoot, but it is their decision based on some of the best baseball minds around.

So, if Chuckie goes, then so be it. I would love to see a combo of Jurrjens, Reyes, Bennett and Morton get a chance to do some starting.

Do we think that Hampton might be a useful bullpen arm if he needs to come along slowly this year?

By Novice Ned

December 4, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Seems to me we’re missing out on a golden opp to secure a top of the rotation type of pitcher for more than 1 freakin season by not going after one of Oakland’s guys or Bedard. We continue to acquire players one year at a time (or in Tex’s case a year and a half). Smoltz and Glavine are NOT immortals. Hampton seems as likely go pitch 120 innings next season as Steve Avery. Hudson is an innings eater but has proven that he isn’t clutch in important starts. And that leaves us with a lot of pitcher du jour candidates and we know how that has worked out. Meanwhile, younger, experienced, relatively healthy pitchers are being dangled all over Nashville like silicon parts in push-up bras. And we’re focused on middle infielders (don’t we still have like 17 of those guys in the minors), a non-hitting CF (isn’t that Willie Harris) and a one-year lefty reliever rental (who will either be too expensive if he’s successful or booted off the team if he fails). I’m not fond of the Glavine signing nor today’s trade. No more deals for 1 year players.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Chipper is da bomb.

By Mike Honcho

December 4, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Don’t misconstrue the discussion I was trying to facilitate here. I asked if Chipper is the least clutch great hitter in the game. I’m not sure how that is considered a knock against Chipper as a player.

As far as the Braves team goes…I think it is simply an interesting debate. In your heart of hearts who would you want up there with the game on the line? If it is Chipper, that’s great, I certainly would mind seeing Chipper up there (especially against the Mets) but I think Francouer (regardless of career numbers or consistency over a number of years, because that’s irrelevant when it comes down to a clutch situation) has something akin to what Smoltz has.

That is an ability to rise to the occasion when it counts the most.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Anders: That Lastings deal was interesting. I don’t know that it puts the Mets over the edge, but it doesn’t necessarily hurt either seeing how Lastings wasn’t an integral part of the team (though in the long run it could very well hurt if he turns out as good as his initial hype had him, but that remains to be seen). But I am curious about how this Nats club is shaping up. Lastings and Elijah to go along with Dmitri could make for a great story of maturing and growth, or a total meltdown of biblical proportions. The Nats appear to be building the team of second chances. Perhaps now they should focus on Michael Barrett and Meltdown Bradley. Rogers is already signed, otherwise they’d have a great addition to the attitude of the rotation. But they could still take a shot at Boomer.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Anders, your Tommy Boy sequel ideas yesterday were funny. I could also see Adam Sandler playing Hank Steinbrenner in the Billy Madison sequel. Hank, after being away from the team for 20 years, needs to redo school all over again to figure out what the hell he is doing. Suzyn Waldman can play the role played by the wife of Pete Sampras.

Arizona is getting Haren? Damn!

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

I don’t mind this talk about James being traded. However, I am concerned about who he gets traded for. If he goes solely for a position player, it’s likely to be a mistake. I can see James, Diaz + prospects in a multi-player deal bringing in a stellar young starter and a stop-gap CF. In this day of starter scarcity, it makes little sense to me to do a James deal that doesn’t bring back a productive starter.

By Jim

December 4, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Why designate Willie Harris? Harris is the most exciting player left on the squad. He able to manufacturer runs with his speed and take away runs in the field. I don’t get it.

By Wayne

December 4, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

The Braves are believed to be offering lefty Chuck James for DeJesus. James, 26, is 22-14 with a 4.05 ERA over the last two seasons.

Kansas City Star

By wjones

December 4, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen the latest Chop Talk? There is a lot of interesting stuff, but since there is a lot of Chuck James speculation, I wanted to point out the Q & A with him. Some highlights:

He was disappointed in his performance, and said that his problems with his shoulder were over.

HE SAID THAT THEY FOUND A SMALL TEAR IN HIS ROTATOR CUFF. They won’t operate, and he said it is almost healed, then he will go into rehab. He said the trainers will decide when he is to start throwing, but he intimated that he should be ready for the early throwing program.

He said this year was a learning year for him. He said he had never had as many struggles, never had to fight to throw as many strong innings. He said he had to increase his longevity. He thought he might have been throwing too much between starts, and that may have contributed to the fatigue issue also.

On the last question the writer asked him how he would approach things differently this year, as he was expected to be in the rotation. James said he still had options left, new pitchers were acquired, Hampton was expected back, so he was going into Spring expecting to compete for a job, and was not taking anything for granted.

By Braves20

December 4, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

So we trade a guy who might be something - last year’s sample was too small for somewhat of an upgrade over Woodward and possibly this year’s Mark Redmond. Big whoop. Probably the biggest thing we’ll see for the rest of the winter.

BTW who was the jerk that referred to Mike Hampton as a dirt bag yesterday? Well Dick or Dan or whatever your name was, say what you want about the trade and the salary but Mike Hampton is a class guy - ask anyone anywhere he’s lived - and unlike you, he has a three digit IQ.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

I asked if Chipper is the least clutch great hitter in the game

Yes, you did. And, according to SABR man Bill James, Chipper is not the least clutch great hitter in the game. James provided that stats to defend his position. I myself haven’t processed the stats, but James is fairly reliable in this area so I’ll defer to him.

In a clutch situation, I’d rather have Chipper than Franoeur right now. I wouldn’t be disappointed with either by any means, but right now I’d lean on Chipper. All I know is, the Braves will have both next season so it’s a win win on this end. Add in the Scott Boras/Mark Teixeira contract year and we got ourselves a great show. To bad Teixeira won’t be back after this season, but it should be fun while it lasts.

By David

December 4, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Because Willie can’t hit and those types of players are a dime a dozen

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Rotoworld.com

The Kansas City Star believes the Braves are offering Chuck James to the Royals for David DeJesus.

It’s a pretty good offer if true, though James would likely lose quite a bit following a league change. If the Royals trade DeJesus, they could then offer Andruw Jones a one- or two-year deal. They could also look at Corey Patterson and Kenny Lofton as short-term options. The Rangers are also believed to be interested in DeJesus.

I like it. Go for it Frank Wren. Pull the trigger. Maybe ask for a minor league arm back as well.

Dejesus and Kelly Johnson at the top of the lineup???

Pitchers will have to work hard to get those two out.

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

All you folks that are plugged-in, any truth to the rumors I am hearing regarding the Braves aggressively pursuing both McLouth and DeJesus? McLouth was successful in 22 out of 23 SB attempts…

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Do we think that Hampton might be a useful bullpen arm if he needs to come along slowly this year

Wayne, what’s this if talk? He was already “coming along slowly” when he hurt his hammy. Not it’s at a dead stop. Any forward movement at all would be welcome. But I don’t think they’ll toss 15 million into the pen. If he’s healthy enough to start, get him going and ride him hard. By now, there’s nothing left to lose. He’ll be an old Free agent by years end. It’s not like stringing along a young developing prospect.

By Luke

December 4, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Now that we have filled 2 very big needs with this team(Good trade mr. wren) I think we should try to put together a package deal to bring Dan Haren hear! Something like Gorkeys Hernandez, Brent Lillibridge, Chuck James, and Tommy Hanson for Dan Haren and see if maybe we can Mark Kotsay thrown into the picture as well. That would fill some HUGE needs for now and the future. And Chipper is going to win the MVP next year!! He will have people on base all year in front of him and now teams WONT be able to pitch around him with big TEX hitting behind him! CHIPPER FOR MVP!!!

By Braves Fan in PA

December 4, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

With Harris being designated and Wren apparently liking Thorman does that me he could be part of the LF picture with Diaz and backing up at first?

By David

December 4, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

We still have that Pujols homerun on our TiVo. The way the Houston crowd goes deathly quiet at the crack of the bat never fails to crack me up. “Our ace closer is in! The game is ove…aww, crap.”

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Jim what don’t you get? He had a couple of months where he over acheived, after that he couldn;t hit, or bunt , or steal bases. That is not EXCITING to me. He was a late inning Defensive replacement and a pinch runner, period. We need more to justify him a spot on the roster.

By Lew

December 4, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Anders-Quite honestly, I never thought that much of Milledge to begin with. Yes, he has bona fide talent, but I feel his other issues will serve to severely limit his potential. From the Mets’ point of view, getting him out of the clubhouse, which from what I understand, kind of fell apart at the end of the season and from Wagner’s comments, wasn’t going to improve much, has got to be a solid move. I just don’t see him as a team player and fear he will melt down and cause strife. Maybe I’m wrong, but haven’t really heard much positive about the guy.

So yes, I think the Mets made a beneficial move, However, it also points to the delusion held by many that he would be the centerpiece of a blockbuster deal-like trading for Santana. That surely did not happen.

By Roman Gal

December 4, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

I’ll tell you who I wouldn’t mind having up in a clutch situation…Yunel Escobar.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Jim: It’s because Willie has a noodle for an arm, and can’t hit. Gotta learn how to steal first base before you can steal second.

Sure, he made a couple of spectacular catches in the field, but that’s about it, after that hot first month.

By Hammy the Brave

December 4, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

David and Novice Ned,

I disagree savagely with both of you that the Ascanio deal with the Cubs is bad. David,you should never judge a player on only one year, look up Ohman’s stats for his career-do some research. Do you think you can only acquire players after a good year? No, you often try to acquire consistently good players after a down year, it costs you less in trade.

Novice Ned, I do agree with your main point of trying to acquire a young ML starter to guard against age/injury issues to our rotation, and for the future too.

However, I don’t think that prevents FW from filling other needs. I also agree with your concern that we seem to be trading for too many 1-yr guys, and I want to reverse that trend. I belive you may be too cynical when you suggest Ohman will be too expensive for us, if he’s successful this yr. I think the Braves don’t want to go multi-yr with Mahay because of his age, but Ohman would be much younger, and this shouldn’t be an issue with him.

Hammy the Brave

By ObiWanKobe

December 4, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

I went to college with Ohman (Pepperdine), the guy is a complete and total idiot.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

I’m stunned that him going to the HOF is even debatable.Anders

right now? If he breaks down tomorrow he won’t get in. His counting stats are not yet good enough and they are traditionally important in getting elected.He has also never led the league in any official stat which would be highly unusual for a HOFer. There are guys with hundreds more RBI that have never gotten in. Chips is my favorite player, but he needs at least 2 or three more solid years to be certain of getting in.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Jim, did you actually see the games Harris played in. He was caught stealing half the time he attempted to do so. The guy didn’t even hit his weight in the last two months of the season. He is far from the most “exciting player on the squad”. Please. You think he’s more exciting than Escobar or Francoeur? Okay, if you say so.

By DonCoburleone

December 4, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

I like the Ascanio for Ohman/Infante deal. Kill two birds with one stone and it doesn’t kill our bullpen. I think Acosta is the better of the two, throw in Yates, Soriano, Devine, Moylan and half a year of Gonzalez and that is a very solid (and cheap) bullpen…

I still don’t see how starting pitching is suddenly a position where we have “depth”. I mean, do we really think Glavine and Jurrjens makes our rotation that much better?

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Here is Rotoworld’s take on Ohman.

The Cubs soured on Ohman quickly because of his command troubles, but this is a southpaw who has limited left-handed hitters to a .196 average and struck out more than a batter an inning in his career. We’d take him over J.C. Romero, who just got $12 million for three years from the Phillies, and he’s only owed $1.6 million next year. It’s a nice pickup for the Braves.

By cricket

December 4, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

ObiWanKobe, I went to college with Ohman (Pepperdine), the guy is a complete and total idiot. Please elaborate.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Why designate Willie Harris? Harris is the most exciting player left on the squad. He able to manufacturer runs with his speed and take away runs in the field. I don’t get itJim

the guy had two real good months WAY over his head and I was glad to reide it,but the stunk the rest of the year. His major league stats show that he can’t hit at all on a regular basis. He was truly pathetic the last 6 or 8 weeks of the season, as a hitter and got thrown out half the time as a stealer which is a very poor percentage. Good riddance,

By David

December 4, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

“David,you should never judge a player on only one year, look up Ohman’s stats for his career-do some research.”

I don’t judge players by stats. I judge them by watching them play. I work at home and I love baseball, which means I see the Cubbies all the time. Ohman is no different than Royce Ring. In fact, I like Ring a little bit better since he’s younger with a stronger arm.

What I suspect you are doing, on the other hand, is researching the stats of a guy you didn’t ever notice pitching and professing knowledge of him as a player. Don’t take my word for it. Here is a quote from a writer for the Chicago Sun-Times:

“

Will any Cubs fan miss Will Ohman. The Cubs traded him and Omar Infante today to Atlanta for reliever Jose Ascanio.

I did a separated-at-birth photo spread last season and compared Ohman to Randy Quaid. I thought if anyone was going to be mad, it would have been Quaid. But I heard Ohman was mad. I’m sure it was because I included a little shot about how Cubs fans age 10 years every time he takes the mound. I think he gave up a grand slam that day. Anyway, good riddance.”

The Cubs just traded their Tom Martin. To us.

On a larger point, if you take a look at the big picture here. the Braves have made three trades since the end of July to fill one spot, lefty reliever. If that doesn’t alarm you, we most assuredly disagree. What happened with Gonzalez was terrible luck but the way we have handled it is frustrating.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 4, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Jim: Why designate Willie Harris? Harris is the most exciting player left on the squad. He able to manufacturer runs with his speed and take away runs in the field. I don’t get it.

really? willie harris is the most exciting player left on the squad? more exciting than teixeira? chipper? smoltz? francoeur?

take a look at his 1st half vs. 2nd half numbers for 2007, and i think it’s clear why he’s being designated — there was a huge drop-off after the all-star break:

1st half: 53 games, .342 avg/.419 OBP/.375 RISP, 14/18 stolen bases

2nd half: 59 games, .214 avg/.294 OBP/.227 RISP, 3/10 stolen bases

a few things he had going for him in the second half:

1) 7 triples. that is a lot, and he drove in 20 in the 2nd half (12 first half). while that helped to produce a lot of runs, look at the RISP totals. also, his strikeout total came close to doubling: first half, he struck out 26 times; second half, 45.

2) that amazing catch that he made at shea stadium. i don’t think i’ll ever forget that catch as it was such a huge play and saved the game. that said, it was only one play.

3) his 6-for-6 game. coming into that game, however, he was in a huge slump (7 for his last 46, if i’m adding it up correctly), and didn’t exactly catch fire after it (7 for his next 31).

yeah, he was a feel-good player for a while, but not really much in the overall scheme.

By ed

December 4, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Chuck James for DeJesus being rumored. Link Below. Bad deal for Braves, don’t you think?

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/04/david-dejesus-for-chuck-james/

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

JasoninMaine, I think there is some truth to it. On the surface I would say DeJesus is the better pickup than McClouth. It would be nice to get another pitcher in the deal which would lean toward McClouth because the DeJesus is a better player than McClouth which means the Royals are more likely to view DeJesus as equal value for James. Of coure, I can’t imagine the Pirates giving any of their starters away unless it was Duke and that is iffy. Naturally, Snell and Gorzelany would be better.

By Tim

December 4, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Okay, I understand the Braves have 7,8, or 9 picthers capable of starting next year. But Glavine and Smoltz are both over 40, Hampton is a huge question mark, and other than Hudson and Chucky, the other guys are unproven and inexperienced. Can DOB or someone else please give me a valid reason to not go after Dan Haren?? The A’s have made it clear they are willing to shop him. Assuming Glavine calls it quits at the end of next season, this would give us a great 3 for the 09’ season! (Smotlz, Hudson, Haren) And for his talent, he is extremely affordable!! This seems like a great oppurtunity in my opinion!!!

By N8

December 4, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the home/road splits on the new guy.

Yikes. Let’s hope when we’re at Wrigley, he STAYS IN ATLANTA. LOL!

Unfortunately, I don’t like the trade. I’m glad that Wren “filled two needs with one trade”. Good for him.

But it’s this kind of crap that keeps me steaming at the Braves “brass”.

Really? We’re gonna trade a YOUNG POWER PITCHER who strikes people out, for a lefty specialist, who as it was put was still “respectable” against lefties.

Why does this move have the 2nd coming of Mike Remlinger’s 2nd tour of duty written all over it? Just watch Ascanio tear it up in Wrigley. After all, the wind can’t affect balls that the batter doesn’t make contact on, can it?

Sorry to bring pessimism to what on the surface, most are heralding as a GREAT TRADE.

I’m tired of seeing young, power arms leave our system, for weak, old, soft tossing lefties and utility infielders.

What’s next? An announcement that Thorman is gonna be “in the mix” for the CF job?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

By the way, Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux being honored by Baseball America today as this year’s recipients of Lifetime Achievement Award (along with Cubs scouting guru Gary Hughes). Banquet starts at 3:30 but lasts until 6 p.m. Hence I won’t be attending.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Braves have talked to Royals quite a bit about DeJesus, but I think Royals are reluctant, so far refused, to give him up for James alone. They view DeJesus as a long-term, solid lineup regular.

Also, while they’ve talked to Pittsburgh, I’m told nothing serious yet about McLouth, talks haven’t gone anywhere. Now, that could change quickly, as things do here. But so far, I’m told not serious.

Going to meet with Wren for update now. He’s gotta do it early so he can go to that BA banquet awards thing.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

nOLLIE, compare the stats. Chipper MIGHT have a hard time getting the HOF if he retired right now but Chipper just might be the third best third baseman of all time. His OPS+ for his career is 143. Mike Schmidt is #1 at first base with a OPS+ of 147. Eddie Mathews is at 143. George Brett and Home Run Baker are at 135 and Wade Boggs was at 132. Third baseman don’t get much love from the Hall but Chipper is already the third best third baseman of all time. If Chipper gets to 500, he and Schmidt and Mathews stand shoulder to shoulder in my book.

By Mr. Wrestling #2

December 4, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, Have you heard of McCann has bothered to get into shape this offseason?, I saw where Pendleton has shaped up and that’s good to see, but would love to hear the same about our catcher.

By ObiWanKobe

December 4, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

He was quite aloof, self entitled and generally just an a*. He got off being a hard-a* as a referee for inter-mural sports. He was someone who was always looking for attention. Randy Wolf was in school with us at the same time and he couldn’t be anymore of a direct opposite of Ohman. I have my doubts as to whether this guy is going to fit in with the other players in the club house. You never know though people can change and that was almost 10 years ago.

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Dejesus is overrated. I’m really not sure why all the love for this guy.

His contract isn’t huge by any means but he’ll be making escalating salaries for the next 4 years, I believe.

And if you think he’s good enough to move to another position when our young CF is ready, you’re absolutely nuts. No corner OF survives with offensive stats like that.

I think McLouth would come much cheaper in terms of talent-cost, salary, and he offers some pop.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

DOB

Would you say the Braves are more interested in Dejesus or Mclouth?

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB), thanks. It would be interesting…

If the youngster Schafer is ready next year, and we get a Mclouth who is under team control for a couple of years (I think); we could flip him next year.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

nOLIE I’ve never been an all about the numbers guy with the HOF. I think if a guy has been a dominant player at his position for 10 or more years and has real good numbers that should be enough. I don’t get caught up in the HOF stuff. I was just answering what I was asked.

By Rick Roberts

December 4, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Wren is on a roll!!! Good trade for Ohman and Infante—Infante and Freel the top two utility guys and Infante costs less.

Braves match with SFO: James and Thoman for Noah Lowry, A. Sanchez? and one other minor leaguer?

With Toronto: Thorman, Canadian, for a Jays pitcher.

Other lesser players like Terry Evans, Gerald Laird, Doumit would fit very well, Jon Rauch, Jeff Baker, or H. Penn.

Of course, Dan Haren would put us in the Series—not sure we have enough, but he is one tough pitcher.

Anyway, great job Frank Wren and staff!!

By Thrillhouse44

December 4, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t everyone realize that in order to get Haren, we would have to give up a lot? I keep hearing “bargain” as one of the adjectives describing this dude, but hasn’t everyone heard that the loser of the Santana sweepstakes is likely to go after Haren? That drives the price up right there. The A’s aren’t going to give up Haren for James + a prospect. I’d love to get him too, but I don’t think it’s likely or reasonable.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

RJIB, why is DeJesus better than Mclouth? I really haven’t watched either play a lot (so this is an honest question, not a challenge!) - but McClouth is 2 years younger, has much more pop (13 HR in 329 abs last year vs. 7 in 605 for DeJesus), and stole 22 bases in 23 attempts (vs. 10 of 14 for DeJesus). And, from what I’ve read, the Bucs’ price for McLouth would be less than KC’s for DeJesus. Both guys had a .351 OBP last year, which is certainly adequate for our needs.

Is there some dark side of McLouth that I don’t know about.

By Gator

December 4, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I like McLouth better for what we need. He has a little power along with good defense. I was thinking James would require more than Dejesus rather than vice versa. How about Prado for McLouth?

By Gator

December 4, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I like McLouth better for what we need. He has a little power along with good defense. I was thinking James would require more than Dejesus rather than vice versa. How about Prado for McLouth?

By BossLady

December 4, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wrestling #2 LOL LOL brings back real old school

By Novice Ned

December 4, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Here we go again, rumors of trading Chuck James for a guy who already has a pre-determined shelf life with the Braves (no one will block the path of the phenom… Jordan Schafer). So you trade away a guy who still has minor league options (where he can learn another pitch and build up arm strength to throw more than 75 pitches) for a guy you will dump the minute Schafer is ready for the call-up? What’s up with this continued short-sightedness? Are Smoltz & Glavine pitching 200 innings for the next 3 years? Are Reyes, Lerew, Bennett and the new guy from Detroit that much more of a sure thing than Davies, Ramirez, Cormier and James that we don’t need to worry about hedging against injury or below-projected performance? UGHH! The good news is when Ohman has huge success and leaves us for a contract that we deem is “more than we’re willing to spend”, we can always bring back Remlinger as our situational lefty reliever.

By NRBQ

December 4, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

Don’t get the chance to read the entire blog, so forgive me if this is a redundant question:

Why are the Braves still looking for a back-up catcher? Is there something wrong with Bryan Pena that’s not obvious to the interested fan?

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Can DOB or someone else please give me a valid reason to not go after Dan Haren?? The A’s have made it clear they are willing to shop him.

the Braves can’t compete talent-wise in a trade against several other teams which want him. It’s not even close. They have no minor leaguers rated in the top 50 and the highest rated one they do have has almost no pro playing experience which says a lot about the farm system right now. By all reports the As are asking as much for Haren as the Twins are for Santana. No way the Braves can trade in that company

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

The Royals want more for Dejesus than Chuck James? Don’t make me laugh. The Braves should be asking for more for Chuck from the Royals than Dejesus.

Dejesus hit .260, .351, .372 last year with 10 stolen bases at 27 years old. Gimme a break. Josh Anderson can accomplish that and steal more bases.

If the Braves trade Chuck James for Dejesus, the Braves have lost their freaking minds.

By 22oz

December 4, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Its kinda hard to trade for Haren when you don’t have the pieces. Beane has already said Haren should bring the same bounty as Santana. The Braves don’t have it, unless you want to trade away the entire AA and AAA teams.

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

N8: You’re post was puzzling to say the least.

Scroll up to my 11:27AM post today and check those stats out again.

Ohman doesn’t let lefties on base and his numbers away from Wrigley are awesome. For 3 years running.

Infante is a very, very solid utility guy to have. We’re talking about a guy that started 3 years ago at age 22 and put up 16 dingers, I believe. He’s only 25…I mean, he may get better.

And all of this for Ascanio. Maybe you know something about Ascanio that I don’t. But I didn’t feel that we could fill 2 needs with him.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

nOLLIE, compare the stats. Chipper MIGHT have a hard time getting the HOF if he retired right now but Chipper just might be the third best third baseman of all time* Braveheart*

you are preaching to the choir. I love Chipper, but …right now he does not have the adding stats that voters typically look to. Many of those guys are much more interested in total hits, homer and RBI totals than they are in OPS. I’m not saying he ain’t great, but I think he needs better numbers that hopefully he will stay healthy enough to get though I think that 500 is gonna be a stretch.and now we see guys with 500+ who will struggle to get in. The steroids issue might paint everybody with a questionable brush. Hope not.

By OrlandoFan

December 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Funny, I like DeJesus and think he makes sense in the near term. But I have a bad feeling about giving up James for him alone. I’d much rather trade James for a bigger return. I think with Glavine around he could be upon a breakout year. But the Braves are good about knowing when a player is not going to fit.

By James Munson

December 4, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

OK, so I believe that the Braves need to lock up Tex this offseason, because i not I am sure he’ll leave next offseason. If we do not re-sign him, my suggestion is that we trade him for a lot more than we gave up to get him. What have you heard, DOB?

By N8

December 4, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Tommy P

I’m not so sure what is puzzling about it.

I’m tired of us trading YOUNG POWER ARMS away for crafty, soft tossing lefties.

I’ve NEVER been a big fan of the way Bobby uses the righty/lefty matchups out in the pen.

Why not find pitchers that can get PEOPLE out, and use them?

This trade may end up being just fine. But on the surface, it looks like we just traded a young arm (who looked DAMN FINE afte his call up), for a 30 year old situational pitcher, who was not that effective in his home park FOR THREE YEARS.

What if he can’t pitch in Atlanta? That’s 81 games a year for the last three years he’s been worthless.

As for the utility guy? Nothing wrong with that. ANYTHING to assure us that Woodward, Harris and Orr WON’T BE BACK.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Here’s what kills me. Everybody who is saying don’t trade James for DeJesus now will be the same ones ranting and raving in June about “why didn’t they get DeJesus when they had the chance” if Anderson and Blanco don’t workout in CF. When will people realize that you aren’t going to be able to get something for nothing in a trade? Rarely does that happen.

By Jared

December 4, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

James for Dejesus is horrible for the Braves. What are they counting on Hampton? Does anything think the Braves’ mythical starting pitching surplus will exist in July 2008? When Hampton is on the DL, Reyes struggles and Bennett flops and James is doing well with the Royals, don’t start screaming about the starting pitching failing again.

Dejesus would only be a one year stand with Schafer too….

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Heres what we should do…

Pirates Get: LHP Chuck James C Phillip Britton

Braves Get: OF Nate Mclouth C Einar Diaz

This gives the Pirates what they want, and then gives us our centerfielder, and an older catcher to back-up McCann for only a season or less, until Sammons gets called up. although I will admit Diaz is probably not the most decirable option for a back-up, since he hasn’t produced that well.

By Bo

December 4, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Please don’t give James for DeJesus unless we get someone else in the deal. * Rather have Nate McLouth* plus add Doumit who can c,infield,of.That would give us a back-up catcher? Still want a Starting pitcher but know we want get it.SNELL!

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

N8: Ohman IS a power arm and he’s only 30. I wouldn’t call that a “crafty, soft tossing lefty.”

He throws hard. And from the left side.

I’m not crazy about minor league relief pitchers anyway. You can always convert a starter to a reliever but rarely does a reliever become a starter.

By robertE

December 4, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

I think we have enough possibilities in house to handle CF. I would not trade James unless it is in a package to get a better SP. My concern is having the appropriate bench players. I can’t see Thorman as being much use off the bench.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

HoRam for Soriano; Renteria (and cash) for Marte; Hudson for Cruz/Meyer/Thomas; Matt Diaz for Ricardo Rodriguez. Getting something for nothing happens a lot, RJIB. You just don’t take the first offer that comes along.

By Jared

December 4, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Robert, you said basically the same thing last year in regards to Baldelli. No offense, but you seem to have a fetish for speedy outfielders from other teams who can steal bases and thus, even if their OBP is bad like with Baldelli, bat “leadoff”.

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Why are folks so in love with DeJesus??? I my mind McLouth would be a much better addition.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

RobertJIB, I will never be the kind of idiot who says why didn’t the Braves trade Chuck for Dejesus.

But if the Braves are stupid enough to trade Dejesus for Chuck, I assure you that me and many of the rest of us will be saying why the hell did we trade Chuck James when we don’t have 4, 5 pitchers as good as Chuck?

Pitching is what sunk the battleship last season. Chuck was not part of that problem.

When will people realize that you aren’t going to be able to get something for nothing in a trade?

My problem with that statement is that we would be trading something for nothing if we traded Chuck for Dejesus.

Willie Harris, 2007: .270, .349, .392, 17 stolen bases.

David Dejesus, 2007: .260, .351, .372, 10 stolen bases.

Willie Harris got cut today and rightfully so but Willie Harris was actually better than Dejesus last season. But here we are trading Chuck James for a guy who was worse last season than the guy we just waived away?

Now I understand Dejesus was better in prior seasons but you don’t trade Chuck James for Dejesus. You just don’t.

By OrlandoFan

December 4, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Agreed, Robert. We all have great hindsight but easy forgetfulness of our own statements. I’m OK with the deal, but I don’t feel totally comfortable. I have learned to trust the Braves (each team has its own lemons) because of the longterm track record of knowing when a guy just isn’t going to reach his potential with them. Some players just don’t have the head to be on this team. James may not. Only Bobby and Chuck really know.

By StingerSplash

December 4, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

While I hate giving up Ascanio — who looked pretty good in some tough situations late in the year — the Braves’ luck with shipping away hard-throwing relievers has been good lately. May I present Roman Colon and Jose Capellan as examples? And whither Messers. Colon et Capellan, pour quois? (Hey, it’s been 20 years since French 2 at God’s gift to higher learning and intercollegiate football, so if it’s Boras-ed up, forgive me).

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of us trading YOUNG POWER ARMS away for crafty, soft tossing lefties.N8

actually I think he is a hard thrower. he sure has the K/IP numbers of one.

By Renegator

December 4, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

DOB:

You mentioned Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine being honored today. Are they even going to be there for it? Are there a lot of players at the winter meetings?

Can a casual fan come to the hotel and walk around and run into managers, GMs, and players?

By sri

December 4, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

I completely agree with Jared’s post at 3:45. It looks like the Braves’ brass is counting on Hamptons return to the rotation. What is the sudden necessity for offense at centerfield? We should only trade CJ in a trade for more pitching. Give the kid another year to see if he can learn under Glavine. More than that, keeping Chuck means another year in the minors for Jo Jo/Jurrjens which will be more valuable next year, when we need to one more slot in the starting rotation. Even if DeJesus is a good candidate to trade away next year when Schafer is ready, we will at the most get a reliever for him (which we already have a surplus of).I dont understand how we have a surplus of starting pitching (it is true only if all things fall in place, if that is the case we can trade our excess at the trading deadline.) But maybe management knows something about Chuck that we are not aware, or Bobby has lost all confidence in him.

DOB: could you please comment on the proposed trade. Earlier you said, you think the trade makes sense. do you really think that Chuck for DeJesus is a fair trade and do you really think we have a surplus of starting pitching?

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Something interesting must be going on…DOB hasn’t reported back from his Wren meeting for almost an hour.

By ObiWanKobe

December 4, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Guillen, Royals Reach Preliminary Deal templatebas templatebas By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer 12:54 PM PST, December 4, 2007 NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Power-hitting outfielder Jose Guillen and the Kansas City Royals reached an agreement on a $36 million, three-year contract.

The 31-year-outfielder batted .290 with 23 homers and 99 RBIs for the Seattle Mariners this year. Seattle declined its $9 million option and Guillen turned down a $5 million player option, receiving a $500,000 buyout.

The agreement was subject to him passing a physical, a person familiar with the negotiations said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcement had been made. His deal was first reported by ESPNdeportes.com and foxsports.com.

The San Francisco Chronicle reported last month that Guillen bought nearly $20,000 worth of steroids and human growth hormone from 2003-05. Major League Baseball began testing for steroids in 2003, and penalties for first offenses began in 2005. HGH was banned in January 2005.

“We told the commissioner’s office my version of this whole affair, which in some ways has been handled with some errors in the media,” Guillen was quoted as saying by ESPNdeportes.com.

Guillen, who can play right or left, joins a crowded outfield. David DeJesus is in center, and the Royals already have Emil Brown in left and Mark Teahen in right. Teahen, however, also can play first base.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

ohman sure does walk a lot of people. looks like we just got macay “pie” mcbride back. dont see a lot of differnce in ohman and mcbride. kind of a yawner deal. if mahay signs somewhwere for less than 3 years 9 mill. frank wren’s got some explaining to do.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB): Don’t count me in on that group either. Come June, James, if he merely repeats what some to be an awful season worthy of dumping for a stop gap league average outfielder, come June he’ll have a 3.66 ERA, as he did on June 7th of 2007. While DeJesus, through the same time frame this past season, was putting up .256/.332/.378 numbers.

Asuming they merely replicate last season’s numbers, I’d still rather have James than DeJesus.

By mike

December 4, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I agree with most people’s assessment of trying to get Haren since he is available. Smoltz is my favorite player but I do think he only has 1 more year of being an ace before being a number 3 starter. I think Glavine is still a reliable middle of the rotation guy but only for 1 year. After that the Braves need another ace to carry the rotation. Luke, I like your proposal for Haren with Hernandez, Lillibridge, CJames, and Hansen except that Hernandez is billed to be the Braves leadoff of the future. Maybe putting in Brandon Jones instead of him would be better. I think most people would be ok with Lillibridge, BJones, CJames, and a prospect for Haren. Yes, thats a lot but you are talking about getting an ace thats young and under contract for three years. And the Braves would be dealing from areas in which they are strong in which are: middle infield, outfield, and starting pitching if they acquired Haren

By Desperado Dave

December 4, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone be willing to trade away a known quantity in Chuck James plus a prospect for David DeJesus? No, James hasn’t won twenty games, but you know what he can do. Add to that the fact that James will benefit from having Tom Glavine around and I think it would be a huge mistake. If you deal James, you have to trust in Jurrgens, Bennett, Reyes and Mike Hampton?

By JC FROM UT

December 4, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

If DeJesus is acquired do not be suprised to see one of the outfield prospects turned into a young arm. Maybe not an arm for today, but one who can compete for a job perhaps next spring. And if it is Brandon Jones who is traded for that arm we can move DeJesus over to left in 2009.If I’m, FW I would make the DeJesus trade then offer B. Jones to Pitt for Snell. I realize B. JOnes has great upside but starting pitching is much harder to get than an outfielder.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Jared, who said I was saying DeJesus should leadoff? And what is wrong with having speedy outfielders? My God can’t have anybody that can actually steal a base! And, I will own my insistence on getting Baldelli last year which turned out to be a good thing the Rays balked at the trade. However, DeJesus would fill the need the Braves want and that is a stopgap. You aren’t going to get a decent player for nothing. And I like James but his pension for giving up homers and the fact he can’t get past the second batter in the sixth inning just scares the hell out of me. And its not as if he had a few starts he was able to go seven or eight. He almost NONE! In a perfect world I would rather keep him but this isn’t a perfect world.

Personally, I don’t have that big of an issue with Anderson or Blanco in CF but are you okay with that. Because from what I’ve seen I’m in the minority on that. Most of us feel a stopgap is needed. And besides, DeJesus only hit .260? Wow! That is 38 points higher than what Andruw hit!

By BamaBrave

December 4, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

The Braves designate Willie Harris for assignment. Paging Terence Moore! Paging Terence Moore!!!

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Just got back from meeting with Wren, because on the way back from there ran into Smoltz and ended up spending 30 minutes or so talking to him about this award he and Glavine and Maddux are getting from baseball america today, and about the Braves and their offseason.

Anyway….

Gotta write two stories now, but first wanted to report couple things:

With addition of Infante, Braves’ other utility job doesn’t necessarily have to be an infielder, because Infante can play almost everywhere.

Wren said the important thing is bat off the bench for that other job, whether it’s primarily an outfield, primarily an infielder, or something in the organization now or someone they might get later. He said they’re open on that one.

Still having discussions with teams about CF, but most of available guys have “strings attached” from Braves’ perspective, whether that’s too much money or years on contract (Coco Crisp, for instance) or other team wants too much in return (perhaps McLouth?), Frank obviously wouldn’t specify names on that one.

They’re not in talks with Royals about DeJesus. Royals aren’t looking to trade him as of now, because they have him penciled in at center unless they get Andruw.

Royals are getting Guillen and then hope to get either Andruw or the Japanese pitcher, too. They’ve got the money to spend on one of those guys in addition to Guillen.

Also, I’m told by someone with Royals that they view Chuck James as a “breakdown waiting to happen” because of his size, delivery, etc. They’re not interested it trading anything valuable for him, if interested in him at all….

RENEGATOR, yes, some fans are here. Not hundreds or anything like that, but some. Just walking back from a restaurant in the hotel with Smoltz, back toward the area where the awards thing is being held, he was stopped by a fan and signed an autograph on a plastic helmet.

By the way, the fan said, “Braves made a trade today, huh?” And Smoltz answered, without missing a beat, “Yeah, we got Barry Bonds today.”

Then he smiled and laughed with the fan.

By Elmer

December 4, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

We get Glav and Dontrell Willis is on the market. ‘nough said.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

By the way, part of the reason Braves were willing to give up Ascanio was concern about the back problems he’s had in the past. Didn’t affect him much, if at all, last season, but did in recent years.

By AdirondackDave

December 4, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Here’s why I’m not comfortable with the idea of trading James for DeJesus. If we do that deal (whether we get or give a minor chip), and in ‘09 when/if Schafer is ready, does anybody out there really think we could then trade DeJesus back for a James-caliber starting pitcher? Good luck on that. Trading any starter for the same general level position player is not particularly good club management these days. And as I see it, that’s exactly what a James-DeJesus deal is.

By sri

December 4, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the stats, Braveheart. It is nice to see Wren being aggressive, but is he being too aggressive? Atleast why not wait until spring training to see how our ‘surplus’ of starting pitching looks at that point and evaluate trade options at that time. Teams dont seem to be lining up for DeJesus anyway. Getting a stopgap CF definitely helps Schafer, but not at the cost of trading Chuck when like Braveheart said, we dont have a better 4 or 5 pitcher identified. I sincerely hope the Braves dont do this trade.. If we are do desperate for a veteran CF, I dont understand why we got Anderson from the Astros. Could’nt we have packaged Villareal in a better deal?. Is Wren pulling the plug too soon?

By Thrillhouse44

December 4, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

I’m surprised to hear the Braves entertained a James for DeJesus trade. Why would they trade a proven starting pitcher for an average CF when FW has said he’s comfortable letting the young guys battle it out?

I know I haven’t said anything new here, just thinking as I type. I don’t think often, so go with it people.

I wonder what DOB found out.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

DeJesus (26 years old next year) makes $2.5 mil next year; McLouth (28) makes the ML minimum.

DeJesus has 29 SB and 23 caught stealing (a TERRIBLE rate); McLouth has 34 SB and TWO cs (i.e., he’s practically unthrowable-outable).

DeJesus has 31 HR in 1927 major league at bats (1 every 62 abs); McLouth has 25 in 708 (1 every 20 abs);

DeJesus has a better career OBP, but they were identical in ‘07.

And from all reports, the Bucs (who don’t really need young starting pitching) are asking for less for McLouth than the Royals are for DeJesus.

I just don’t get why DeJesus is a better option.

By Thrillhouse44

December 4, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Good news, DOB! Glad James for DeJesus isn’t likely! Off to celebrate that with a couple frothy beverages…

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Look, I’m not necessarily advocating DeJesus but a CF. I would prefer Chione Figgins or Josh Hamilton but I don’t know how realistic those guys are. Mark Kotsay is another option I would see as better than DeJesus or McClouth. Of course, my premier choice is Melkey Cabrera.

By BosnianBaller

December 4, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

With all the moves Wren has made it looks like he is going to be the braves stopgap GM until a real GM comes in

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Braveheart , are you off your meds ? Comparing Willie Harris to David DeJesus is just ridiculous.

The Royals value DeJesus so highly to the point that they won’t even trade him for Chuck James.

Willy Harris can’t even keep a job as a fourth outfielder.

Get back on your meds , dude !

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Got the ages mixed up on the comparison … sorry ‘bout that.

By JC FROM UT

December 4, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

IMO the reason the Braves are entertaining the thought of tradng CJ is because they feel, just as the Royals feel, that CJ is an injury waiting to happen.

By rammerjammer

December 4, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

If this Chuck-for-David talk is true, it can only mean that Bobby Cox has soured on the country boy’s attitude, game prep, etc. One thing Bobby won’t tolerate is slackers. Egomaniacs, yes. Slackers, no.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Bosnian baller With all the moves Wren has made it looks like he is going to be the braves stopgap GM until a real GM comes in

That’s funny!!

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Coach LOL!! Nah, I took my meds today. They just don’t seem to have kicked in yet.

I know Dejesus is better than Willie Harris. But the problem is that Dejesus was not better than Willie Harris last season.

And although Dejesus is better than Willie, I would never trade Chuck James for someone who performed worse last season than Willie. That’s just plain stupid.

As a stopgap, I would like to have Dejesus but not if the price is Chuck James. That would have been an absurd trade.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

I think most people would be ok with Lillibridge, BJones, CJames, and a prospect for Haren. Yes, thats a lot but you are talking about getting an ace thats young and under contract for three years

you’re kidding right? The As would laugh at that if they responded at all.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

By the way , the trade with the Cubs is an excellent one. The Braves got exactly what they needed without giving up more than they wanted to.

Jose Acanio has closer potential. But , at this point , it’s just potential. Wait a couple of years before evaluating him any further.

This leaves the Braves with just one more need , a veteran CF.

As for Chuck James , his stock is dropping fast.

By JC FROM UT

December 4, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer: I agree 100% about BC souring on CJ. BC has praised Jojo but says nothing about Chuck. It is time to trade CJ before he loses any more value. At this time last year we were all cringing at the idea of sending Chuck to Tampa as part of a Baldelli trade, Today Tampa wouldn’t do thet deal.

By TJ

December 4, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Guys By the way, OhMan has a career 1.59 ERA at Turner Field.

By Eric from San Jose

December 4, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

This has been an unispired off season for the Braves new GM.

While trading for Dan Haren would be a HUGE jump in the possibilities for next year, the Braves insist on the same suspects for the back of the rotation.

What would Haren cost? He has a reasonable salary this year and next, and likely rolls for James, Lillibridge and Bennett.

That deal would make TOTAL SENSE for both sides. Make the call, Frank.

With losing Andruw AND Renteria, where exactly is all the money going? 8 mil to Glav and 6 mil more to Smoltz, and Terry McQuirck CLAIMING they would spend MANY MORE MILLIONS……nothing is adding up here.

Adding Will Ohman is an embarassment, he of the 5 ERA.

Very difficult to claim this team is better than last years, with MAJOR drop offs in Center field and SS production.

How about Mark Hotsay for Center Field? Steve Finley is available as well.

To get to the WS, these Braves need MUCH more starting pitching and a setup man.

By MGL

December 4, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

An interesting tidbit re evaluating young pitchers-

Cy Young award winner Johan Santana was chosen by the Florida Marlins four years before winning the award, when the Houston Astros declined to put him on their 40-man roster. The Marlins chose Santana in the 1999 rule 5 draft, and traded him to the Minnesota Twins who kept him on their roster for the 2000 season, in which he toiled to a 6.49 earned run average at only 21 years of age. Two years later, he legitimized himself as a Major League pitcher, with an ERA under 3.00, and two years after that, he was recognized as the best pitcher in the league. Had he not been chosen in the rule 5 draft, he likely would not have made his major-league debut until the 2001 or the 2002 season with the Astros.

By Anders

December 4, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

TJ Guys By the way, OhMan has a career 1.59 ERA at Turner Field. Not sure if this says more about him or the Braves hitters?

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Ohman’s 4.5 era as a reliever is cause for concern since he will likely be used to get lefties out late in tight games. I can see him coming into a game the Braves are winning 4-3 in the 7th inning with runners at 2nd and 3rd with one out and giving up a double to make the score 5-4 other team.

If the Braves don’t add a really good CF (.280+ 25+ 80+) then the aquisition of Tex and loss of Andruw cancel each other out. We need Tex’s numbers and Andruw’s power numbers.

The winter meetings are dead as far as signings and trades so far. I wish Santana would get traded. I’m tired of reading about him…

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

I don’t know that Tampa wouldn’t do that deal. It was the Rays who said no to the deal last year. Not the Braves. At this point the Rays would probably consider the deal because Baldelli’s health is just so uncertain. I think its the Braves who would balk at the deal.

I find the Royals take on James very interesting. Wonder how many other teams feel the same including the one James currently pitches for?

By Macay Bride

December 4, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Ohman look at my life, I’m a lot like you are. Ohman look at my life, I’m a lot like you are.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

The Braves probably could sign Keith Lockhart (Bobby’s all time man-crush favorite player) to be a utilty guy. I bet he could still hit .200 off the bench like he always did…

It makes no sense to have 12 OF’s in AAA,AA,and A ball who will one day be MLB OF’s and nobody ready to play CF at the major league level for the Braves. Common sense tells you that there are only 3 OF positions anyway and Francoeur is locked at one of them for years. So only possibly 2 of those 12 can be future OF’s for the Braves anyway.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Braveheart , at the risk of really wondering if your even sober , are you nuts ?

Your trying to tell me that Willie Harris outperformed David DeJesus last season ?

Would you trade Chuck James for Willie Harris , I didn’t think so.

The Royals won’t even think about trading DeJesus For James. It’s value , Dude. Willie Harris has none.

David DeJesus played in 157 games last season , he scored 101 runs , played outstanding defense , popped 7 HR’s and drove in 58 RBI as a LEAD OFF HITTER for crying out loud. His 605 at bats with just 83 strike outs screams plate discipline , not to even mention his very tidy .351 OBP.

Willie Harris played himself right out of the line up and just got released.

David DeJesus is under contract with the Royals until 2011. Figure it out already.

Braveheart , there are rules about being stone cold commode hugging drunk and stumbling around in the blog. We call it the drunk tank.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

Eric, I concur with you my man. Well said !

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Here’s what everyone must understand about Haren. For the Braves to offer a package comparable to that of the Yanks, Red Sox, Dodgers, or even the Mets the Braves would have to offer James, Lillibridge, and B. Jones, and Schafer or Hernandez. And that likely isn’t enough. Or the Braves would have to offer James, Lillibridge, and Francoeur and I’m not sure that would be wise. Now, I do wonder what a package of James, B. Jones, and Johnson would do for the A’s?

By bocabrave

December 4, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

The de Jesus trade rumor is funny. It looks to me as if it originated on this blog, grew into a major topic, and raised lots of blood pressures without a germ of truth to it. btw, LA Times says Dodger GM is not interested in further talks re: andruw unless asking price comes way down.

By homedepottraderumors.com

December 4, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

With the way people are talking, maybe it was not such a good idea for Chuck to give up the day job over at Lowes.

Things are reportedly so bad for Chuck right now that Arthur Blank refuses to trade Jesus over from Home Depot unless Lowes offers something more in the trade package other than just Chuck.

By Thirsty Horse

December 4, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about you folks but when I start hearing “stopgap” thrown around it worries me. Woodward, Orr and Willy were stopgaps.

Are we really hearing, “we really aren’t spending much money but we obviously aren’t going to tell fans that so we’ll scoop the bottom of the mediocre barrel - get a few guys in that may or may not have arm problems and come in under budget for Liberty”?

But then, stopgap does roll off the tongue a little easier.

Cautiously optimistic. Maybe irrationally so.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves would trade Francoeur head up for Johan Santana. Francoeur is a native Atlantan that will take over as the face of the Braves when Smoltz and Chipper retire.

Wren resigning Glavine and trading for Ohman and Infante doesn’t even make a blip on my radar as vast improvements. Not when you have a glaring hole in CF.

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

What would Haren cost? He has a reasonable salary this year and next, and likely rolls for James, Lillibridge and Bennett.

man oh man. these deals get worse and worse. Have you actually read what has been offered for Santana? Haren will cost about the same. James,Lillibridge and Bennett? Bennett? Not even close to acceptable. Please people get real.

By BosnianBaller

December 4, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

MLB.Com says tigers/marlins close to trade. Tigers get Cabrera and D.willis Marlins get- Andrew Miller and 4 other prospects

By parks

December 4, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

robdawg did you really just say Tex and Andruw cancel each other out? Tex has more hitting ability in his left pinky than Andruw does.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Here’s a crazy trade idea : Trade for Miguel tejada to play SS and put Escobar at 3B and Chipper in LF,Francoeur in CF (he’s supposed to be Andruw’s replacement there anyway),and Diaz in RF. I know it puts a lot of players in different positions but for Tejada’s big bat I’d do it !

By Nelson

December 4, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

I have to be honest: I don’t now the majority of the new names the Braves are getting from recent trades, instead what I see is a huge contradiction, because they said the have some cash available, but they don’t want to pay to keep good proven players!. They are trying to get the cheapest deals and as a result what I really see is a weaker team every day, not a competitive one. PLEASE! somebody tell me I’m wrong in order that I could believe the money I will pay to Direct TV to have MLB Extra Innings will worth!

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

ROBDAWG, you’re forgetting that bobby said chipper is back at third for good, after all the injuries with his quad in left…not to mention the guy almost won a gold glove there….

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

I think to get a pitcher, ie a Haren, Blanton, etc, it would have to include Lillibridge and one of our two back end youngsters (Reyes or Jurrjens). For a guy like Haren (not Blanton) I think a top prospect outfielder (Hernandez or Schafer) and a top prospect pitcher (Evarts, Hanson, Rohrbough, etc.) would have to be included.

Would that trade be worth it to us? Just wondering???

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

When the off-season started , the Braves had nine arbitration eligible players. They now have five , talk about cutting the fat.

Frank Wren isn’t screwing around , he has already made three trades , one free agent signing , acquired seven players and said goodbye to eleven since the end of the season.

By DonCoburleone

December 4, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe this trade! The Tigers are LOADED!!! And two big headaches are gone from within our own division… This is a good thing for Atlanta (at least for this upcoming year - 3 or 4 years from now may be another story…)

By DonCoburleone

December 4, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

Wow, looks like the Yankees are now behind the Red Sox, Indians and Tigers in the AL now… And don’t look now guys, but the Marlins are doing it again! That team is going to be loaded in 2-3 years!

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

ESPN says the Braves are talking with C Damien Miller. (Obviously for back-up)

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal is reporting the Marlins/Tigers deal is a done deal. Cabrera and Willis for Maybin, Miller and 4 other prospects.

Chipper is NOT moving off third this year. Maybe later on in his career, he would move to first, but that would only happen if we don’t sign Tex. Chipper is as much a fixture as there is in this business.

Would the Orioles entertain an offering of Teixeira for Bedard? Would a deal like that be worthwhile for the Braves? Yes, I know this is not going to happen, but just wondering if YOU would do it if YOU were the GM?

By AZBravoFan

December 4, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

I realize this is probably heresy, but I think losing Andruw is in some ways addition by subtraction. What do we lose? Some good defense sure, but it sounds like the Braves are taking a defense first approach in their replacement, so I don’t think the impact there is as bad as it might seem. We lose a bunch of meaningless late inning home runs in blowout games. A bunch of rallies killed by GIDP. 140+ K’s, many at very inopportune times. Say this Josh Anderson even approaches what he did in 67 AB’s last year. He grounded into 0 DP’s. His OBP was over .400. And he did not strike out a lot. That means more guys on base, longer rallies, more chances for the big boppers. I think it easily makes up for the “production” lost by letting Andruw go.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Holy smokes , the Tigers just dropped a bomb on the MLB winter meetings. Looks like the Angels screwed around to long and lost Cabrera.

Yo , Hank Steinbrenner , are you watching ? This is how you make a trade.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Oh to be a Marlins fan……

Hanley Ramirez and Cameron Maybin for the next 10 years. Nice….

Tigers starting lineup:

SS Renteria

2B Polanco

3B Cabrera

RF Ordonez

1B Guillen

DH Sheffield

CF Granderson

C Rodriguez

LF Jones

Pitching:

SP Verlander

SP Bonderman

SP Willis

SP Robertson

SP Rogers

That is one hell of a team. Especially if Willis turns it around.

By bruce

December 4, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

Nationals have eight outfielders on their 40 man roster and only 1 catcher… seems a bit out of balance, so expect some moves there.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

What good are Tex’s numbers without great numbers (30-35 Hrs & 80-100 rbi’s) from CF ? We need great numbers from 1B and CF !

By Metropolitan Man

December 4, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

Detroit has acquired third baseman Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from the Florida Marlins in exchange for a package that includes outfielder Cameron Maybin and lefty Andrew Miller, the Detroit Free Press is reporting

By bill

December 4, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

With all the big money being thrown around, I don’t think the Braves will sign Tex. With all these big time prospects being traded, wonder what the Braves could get for Hudson and Tex. They just don’t have the team to compete for a WS. The starting staff is old. They need to build for the future.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, and Indians are better than the best team in the National League. And it isn’t even close. Maybe the NL will win an All Star game in 2020?

By BosnianBaller

December 4, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Braves are interested in C Damien Miller

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

They will lose Hanley Ramirez in about 2 years to free agency. The Marlins are embarassing. They develop talent then trade it away to develop more talent. Fred Sanford would be proud !

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

D. Willis can hit too. That will be lost with him playing in the AL.

By Wayne in Utah

December 4, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

AZBravoFan Agreed on the addition by subtraction. I don’t see where we will miss him too much, especially if Josh Anderson is as good as they say at going to get the ball. Also, if he hit 250-275 with an OBP of 325, he wouldn’t be a drain on the lineup.

I like the Damian Miller idea for backup catcher. That would give Sammons another year to learn his trade and maybe get better with the stick.

By Edgar

December 4, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

The Braves are looking for a backup catcher, and they have kicked the tires on free agent Damian Miller.

             *Peter Gammons*

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 4, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

The National League is slowly turning into the butt ugly redheaded step-child of MLB.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

efrim,

there was a time when the braves lineup looked like the current tigers. i for one applaud the tigers for their go for it now approach. wow how things have changed. this team is and has been run like a corporation for about 4 years. sans any more major moves from the brvaos and i think all wren did was shuffle around the deck chairs.

By robdawg06

December 4, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

This news just in… In a blockbuster trade reported by Hollywood insiders, Lindsay Lohan has traded her best pair of underwear and a subscription to Parenting magazine to Brittany Spears for three fifths of liquor and two cases of tall boys Budweiser beer ! Brittany wanted Lohan to throw in a see-thru mesh bra but Lindsay declined…

By DonCoburleone

December 4, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Yeah, the Tigers are loaded… Renteria is probably going to be batting 7th or 8th in the order! (Polanco is probably the only hitter in baseball that is better than Renteria in the #2 hole…) My god, the AL gets better and better… Seriously, there is now no doubt that the Tigers, Indians, Angels, Yankees and Red Sox are ALL better than any team in the National League… That truly is sad…

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Your trying to tell me that Willie Harris outperformed David DeJesus last season?

YEP! Exactly. Willie had a higher average, about the same OBP, a higher SLG, a higher OPS, a higher OPS+, more stolen bases, about as many triples, more RC/G.

No doubt about it. Willie Harris was better than Dejesus last season. Dejesus may have more talent but as that Macon basketball coach so famously said, “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.” Now, maybe, Dejesus works hard in addition to his talent but whatever the situation was, the less talented Willie Harris outplayed and outperformed DeJesus last year.

Would you trade Chuck James for Willie Harris , I didn’t think so.

Of course not, silly. I would never in a million years trade Chuck James for Willie Harris.

But I also would not in a million years trade Chuck James for someone who performed worse than Willie Harris last season either.

By parks

December 4, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

we don’t need power #’s from CF, It’s nice but we need good defense (which we had)and for him not to be a constant rally killer and not K 100000000000 times. We will score plenty of runs next year.

By DonCoburleone

December 4, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Efrim you beat me to it! The NL stinks!!!

So the Marlins get Maybin, Miller and oh yeah, the Marlins just stocked their young pitching even more, here is the rest of the trade:

“Jon Paul Morosi reveals the three remaining players, and they’re all pitchers: Burke Badenhop, Eulogio de la Cruz, and Dallas Trahern. He notes that Marcus Thames, Brandon Inge, and Chad Durbin are now on the block.”

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

By the way, forgot to mention Braves will control Infante’s contract for three years. He only has three-plus years of service, despite playing parts of five seasons in Detroit.

And yes, Braves have expressed interest in Miller. And in every other available backup catcher, be they free agents or tradeable guys.

Miller was very solid in the past, but sharply declined last two seasons.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Rousing, upbeat post of the day belongs to Bill (6:54 p.m.)

I’m sure they’ll consider your suggestions.

By #2braves fan

December 4, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

just got home from work and heard the news - love the trade just wish they did it earlier and got J Jones instead of Infante -

By GermanBravesFan

December 4, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

If Haren is still under contract for two more years and relatively cheap, why not upgrade the rotation by trading a couple of the young pitchers (James, Reyes, Jurrjens, Carlyle) for him? or a combination of one young pitcher, Lillibridge and a lower-level prospect? A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Haren, Glavine, Hampton (or James, Reyes, Jurrjens/Carlyle) would not sound too bad!

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

The Royals won’t even think about trading DeJesus For James. It’s value , Dude. Willie Harris has none.

The Royals won’t even think about it because the Royals are in the process of trying to sign the centerfielder the Braves should be trying to sign. Dejesus will not be available until they sign the centerfielder the Braves should be signing. When they get the centerfielder the Braves should be signing, Dejesus will be expendable.

Poormouthing a guy you might trade for to the beat reporter who covers the team that the guy you might trade for plays for is a part of negotiating down the price of what the guy you might trade for will cost.

As for Willie Harris having no value, no freaking kidding. My point merely is I would not trade a valuable pitcher on my team like Chuck James for a player who performed worse last season than the guy I believe has no value.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

David DeJesus played in 157 games last season , he scored 101 runs , played outstanding defense , popped 7 HR’s and drove in 58 RBI as a LEAD OFF HITTER for crying out loud.

Coach, it is almost impossible as a leadoff hitter who gets over 660 plate appearances not to score 100 runs. You really have to stink to not be able to do that with that many plate appearances as a leadoff hitter. As it is, Dejesus barely got over 100 runs.

Dejesus hit for a lower batting average last season than the average Major League, National League, and American League leadoff hitter.

Dejesus had an OBP that was only slightly above the average Major League, American League, and National League hitter last season.

His SLG and OPS were significantly below that of the average AL, NL, & MLB leadoff hitter last year.

Are you really boasting about 7 home runs? The average MLB leadoff hitter hit 15 homers last season.

His OBP was better than the average MLB centerfielder but his AVG and SLG and OPS were subpar for the average centerfielder in the majors.

This is why they are looking to sign Andruw Jones.

Dejesus is a below average centerfielder and leadoff hitter. Chuck James is a slightly above average pitcher.

You never trade above average talent and results for average talent with below average results.

Not unless you are content with yet another 84 win season OR WORSE!

BUT if the Braves were trading someone of lesser value for Dejesus, I would have no problem with Dejesus being a stopgap next year. I guess the point is kind of moot anyway until Andruw either signs or something shakes out between here and Opening Day.

By Biggie

December 4, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

If you look closely, the Braves are trading players so they can finish dead last like the movie ‘Major League’, except the Braves will actually finish dead last. Deep from inside, I knew the day would come.

By GermanBravesFan

December 4, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

By the way, I didn’t mean to trade all four of the guys I mentioned for Haren… that would be a bit too much. But why not two of them?

By TJ

December 4, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

What’s the Latest on Dejesus, McLouth, Hamilton and other available CF the braves have expressed interest???.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

It would be nice if Marcus Thames could play center since he is now said to be available. Thames would provide some power and if he can play CF he could platoon with either Anderson or Blanco, whichever one wins the job.

Here’s a name I haven’t heard mentioned too much and that is Milton Bradley. Bradley is expected to be back by spring training. Of course, he is a free agent and Wren has made it clear he isn’t going after free agents.

DOB, what do you think about the Braves pursuing Jerry Owens of the White Sox (if the White Sox sign Andruw)or the Braves making a push for Reed Johnson from the Blue Jays?

By TommyP

December 4, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Damian Miller would NOT be a good signing, guys. Dreadful.

But the thing Bobby looks for in a backup catcher is a veteran that can really handle pitchers and call a game - stick not needed. A guy that could be one pitcher’s personal catcher.

But Damian Miller should not be that guy.

The best backup I think we’ve had was Charlie O’Brien. That guy could call a game and handle a pitcher.

A stat that needs to be more mainstream is Catcher’s ERA. Extremely important statistic.

By Brad in MT

December 4, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

Great trade…I really think that the roster is shaping up nicely now. I still wouldn’t be surprised to see a trade for a CF coming…

By Boogey

December 4, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Biggie the Muts will finish even deeeeeeeeeper than us in 2008.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this

The Royals won’t even think about it because the Royals are in the process of trying to sign the centerfielder the Braves should be trying to sign

Braveheart, please tell me you’re not talking about AJ!

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this

DOB

What are your thoughts on the Detroit-Florida deal?

I know I am glad to get Cabrera out of the division and league.

It really will be the JV(National League) and the Varsity(American League) this season. Although if the Dodgers get Bedard and the D-Backs get Haren, that could change some things.

By Braveheart

December 4, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

David DeJesus is under contract with the Royals until 2011. Figure it out already.

I have figured it out. They want to go get Andruw Jones so that their offense no longer suffers because of subpar players like Dejesus.

Braveheart , there are rules about being stone cold commode hugging drunk and stumbling around in the blog. We call it the drunk tank.

Someday, I’ll tell you where the websites are that have me face down inside of a trash can passed out in my own vomit in the bathroom of a Tuscaloosa honky tonk. Not a pretty sight. Guess I’ll never be able to run for public office.

As for Cabrera and Dontrelle, as I said when the Braves traded Renteria, the team that got their hands on Edgar is the team trying to win it all. The team that traded Edgar on the other hand is, well, uh….. spending many millions more but losing Edgar, Andruw, Mahay, trying desperately to lose Chuck while only adding Glavine. Oh well, not like it was an 84 win third place team last year or anything.

Alright, g’nite all.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

braveheart,

i am with you on dejesus. he does not hit for power, does not steal bases and he hit .260 last year. kind of sounds like a poor mans michael tucker.

By Andy K.

December 4, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

i agree Brad…it’s like i can almost sense one…if we do…i like eithier mclouth or thames

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

Robert, JIB, I read somewhere that his injury was expected to sideline him until the All Star break or so. Have you seen this information recently?

Either way, Meltdown Badly doesn’t seem like a BC/Atlanta kind of guy.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

Okay, I know what everybody is going to say but I’m throwing this out there anyway. Here’s a name I think should be considered. Reggie Willits. I know. I know. He had 0 homers last year. And I say “So the f* what!” The guy’s OBP was. 391. He hit great against right handed pitching and wasn’t too bad against lefties (.276 avg). His OBP was over .400 against righties and .385 against lefties. He would be a great leadoff guy with the ability to steal bases (27 SB in 35 attempts). He would be under the Braves control for five years and could move to a OF utility role once Schafer came up or he could be traded.

The Angels have a plethora of outfielders that they can’t possibly find time for all of them. I would prefer Figgins BUT Figgins will be more expensive in terms of payroll and the Angels are likely to ask a lot more for him than Willits.

By Pompous N8

December 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Tommy P

If Ohman IS a power pitcher, than it’s my bad. I just assumed that he wasn’t.

If that is the case, than it’s a wash, with a utility guy “thrown in”.

I do, however, like what Coach pointed out, about Wren “trimming the fat”, by ridding ourselves of arbitration eligible players. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, Coach, you said the following:

“The National League is slowly turning into the butt ugly redheaded step-child of MLB.”

That’s fine by me. We’ve got two Aces for the post-season (if we get there), and STILL have a pretty good lineup. So anything the AL can do, to rid the NL of it’s better players, is fine by me. Especially our division rivals. LOL!

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

braveheart,

dude you are on a roll. either spend the damn money or shut up.

By Edgar

December 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Its So nice to watch Smoltz emphazazing to Seth Everett that Chuck James is not a No. 3 Starter!

By Pompous N8

December 4, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

“The best backup I think we’ve had was Charlie O’Brien. That guy could call a game and handle a pitcher.”

LOL! That’s funny.

O’brien was Maddux’s PERSONAL CATCHER.

Jeff Blauser could’ve been his catcher and looked like he called a good game.

Sorry. Couldn’t resist. Charlie O’Brien was a good catcher, but you made that too easy.

By JK

December 4, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Robert JIB - Are you just doing a Google search on “MLB CF” to come up with these names?

By JC FROM UT

December 4, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

DOB: Do you know if there has been any talk of Cody Ross? He would be a decent stop gap guy who doesn’t make too much money and always seems to kill the Braves. I don’t know who it would take to get him maybe Martin Prado and Florida would move Uggla to 3rd.

By Jim

December 4, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Infante has played more 2B in his ML career than any other position. He can rest KJ when the LHP is too dominant. Does that make Prado “trade bait,” especially when B’s control Infante’s contract for 3 years?

By Allen

December 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Reggie Willits from Anaheim might be an option for Center.

MLBTradeRumors has a post with some quotes from the Angels GM Tony Reagins. He said “some interesting and exciting things have surfaced” with surprising new teams.

I’m not saying Atlanta is one of those teams. I’m just saying I think Willits makes since for us.

Willits played 30 games in Center last year, .986 feilding pct. Looks like he can hit too .293/.391./.344 27 stolen bases in 136 games. Not much power, he’s a little guy. Sounds like a good leadoff guy. I know he’s young, but he does have a full season under his belt and he did a good job.

Then the Angels can move untradeable Gary Matthews Jr. to LF.

What do yall think?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Guess who this is:

He hit .204 (44-for-216) with one homer, 50 strikeouts and a .297 OBP after June 27, and .105 (9-for-89) with one steal in his last 31 games.

That’s Willie Harris.

By mike

December 4, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Nolie, the packages being offered for Santana are not that great. Huges and Cabrera from the Yankees and Lester and Coco Crips from the Red Sox. I think Lillibridge (a very good major league ready shortstop with some power and a ton of speed), B Jones (who hit close to .300 with 100 RBI’s in missippi and richmond and is a good outfielder), Chuck James (a young inexpensive lefthander who has won 11 games in each of his first two seasons while posting a career era right 4.00 and is capable of improving), and another good prospect that none of us know about for Haren. I think that would be a fair deal for both sides

By Jim Hertel

December 4, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Today’s trade looks to be a pretty good one. We gave up Ascanio for Ohlman and what looks to be a very good utility player. However, Ascanio’s upside may be higher than Ohlman’s. He is a power arm, 8 years younger.

Most of the time the Braves’ trades make me a little more than nervous. We traded 5 players for Tex. We rid ourselves of 3 of our best prospects,and 2 others we may regret. We’ve already said good-bye to Mahay, and we aren’t real sure about signing Tex.

Yet, Detroit trades 6 players and gets 2 all stars in return.

Why did we trade Adam last year if we were going to need a first baseman within 6 months. If we aren’t able to sign Tex, and who knows with his agent — that trade will still go down as the worst one in Braves history.

By Roman Gal

December 4, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Edgar, when did he say that? Just wondering.

By Choppin' at the bit

December 4, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Attention all local Atlanta Braves fans: I am a season ticket holder that lives in Augusta. I can not attend all the games each season. The Braves have dissolved their marketplace system. This system allowed ticket holders to sell season tickets to others. They have now partnered with StubHub. StubHub is too saturated and buyers now have to factor $20 shipping fees (before electronic no fees!). The seller has to mail each ticket out. I do not have the time to do all of this and would have to lose my seats over this new policy. I would also hate eating the cost of those unused games…. So I am asking if anyone is interested in splitting my season. I usually only go to Friday or Saturday games. I have two great seats. Section 131 the first row in that section right along the wall. You can see Francoeur and catch home-run balls. I’m looking for someone who would be interested in most Sunday through Thursday games (70% of the season is yours) I’m only looking for face value. If interested place a post with my name bolded and your email address.

By Tom Graham

December 4, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

What about Andruw in right for the Mets? Hmmmmm

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

Jim, do you really think that JS traded Laroche away knowing that Thorman was going to suck as a major league 1b?

Most of the time the Braves DON”T make me nervous. They’ve got a pretty good track record of selling high and/or dumping prospects for pieces they need. Far more often than not, those prospects don’t pan out.

I’m not saying the Tex trade was good, bad or indifferent. I don’t think we’ll really know for a few years. It depends on several factors. Do the Braves win a WS next year with him? Do they resign him after 08? How do the prospects do at the highest level?

By kinley

December 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

Two great players might be leaving the Marlins, but they also got two good ones.

Cameron Maybin has stud written all over him, and Andrew Miller ain’t a slouch by any stretch of the imagination.

Not sure how much any of you guys have seen them play, but for the ones who talk about ridding the NL East of great players…wait ‘til you see them. Especially Maybin.

By chris

December 4, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the Braves have to remove another guy besides Harris from the 40-man roster. I don’t think Ascanio was on the 40 man roster and we’ve added two players today.

Thanks,

Chris from MD

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Allen, they have talked to Anaehim about Willits. Don’t know if they’re still talking to them seriously, but it wouldn’t surprise me since Wren said they’ve talked to several teams in the last couple of days and that a couple of CFs who weren’t previously thought to be available have become available.

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, For fun, what odds to you give that the Bravos will leave the GM Meetings with a new starting CF?

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Andruw doesn’t have the ARM for RF. Plus NY fans and media would eat him alive.

By Boris

December 4, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

DOB Since the Dodgers say that the report of the offer for Andruw was false, and the White Sox have said they are not interested…too many Ks. Is this just a case of Boras planting disinformation? Is he that unscrupulous?

Is anyone (really) interested in Andruw?

By bill

December 4, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

DOB- I don’t think the Braves management will listen to anyone on this blog. If,If this pitching staff can stay healthy they might have a shot at their division but not WS. This staff is to old and can break down at anytime. I hope I’m wrong but they need some young power arms and the only way they can get them is to trade Tex and Hudson. The trade for Tex was a mistake. They gave up to much for him. He’s a great player but we are fooling ourselves if we think the Braves will sign him. He’s not worth 20-25mil. They need to put their resources into pitching. The Braves success was from young pitching and they got better every year with experience.

By Scottie

December 4, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Oh Tom Graham Pleeeeeeeeaseeee i beg the Lord everyday for the Muts to sign Andruw.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

There have been quite a few posts regarding the possibility of trading Chuck James; some in favor of doing so, others not. I have not been in favor of this idea but am not certain now, in light of some information posted here earlier.

What Chuckie has done the past year and a half or so has been pretty good. We all know what numbers he’s posted, so I won’t rehash those. While far from perfect, he’s been much better than average. In light of that, and based upon his current salary and the fact that Glavine and Hampton are almost certainly gone in 09, I would say that he should NOT be traded as he may be a very necessary piece in the rotation.

However, having read that KC believes that he’s an accident waiting to happen makes me question whether trading him right now, when his value is still high, isn’t the best move. If KC thinks this, what do other teams think? What do the Braves think? If his future isn’t as bright as we were once lead to believe and a major injury is inevitable, then doesn’t it make sense to “sell high”? There are plenty of candidates for the rotation next year, albeit quite a few unproven youngsters.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Jason, I’d say 50-50. How’s that for a non-answer? But really, I’d guess about that, maybe slightly less chance.

By Tyler

December 4, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Willits sounds like our man. Some experience, a good glove, and a good OBP. He had a .391 OBP in 2007, a .293 AVG, and 27 SB. Sounds like our leadoff man.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Boris, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest. Borass is famous for “creating a market” when one doesn’t really exist. For him to be successful, he needs for as many teams to be in the hunt for AJ as possible. Short of that, he needs as many teams as possible to be perceived to be in the hunt for AJ. He can’t drive up the price if there is only one bidder.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

Just talking to a New York writer who said, half-seriously, “I don’t know if the Yankees are in the AL’s top 5 anymore.” Or maybe entirely seriously.

“I’d put them fifth right now,” he said. I agreed.

Tigers might bat Edgar seventh, Pudge eighth. Yikes.

By Random

December 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy: Now I get it. It’s all become clear now. Random is actually Shaun’s social activist brother. Mystery solved… but this could go on for days. Maybe Shaun will intervene and add a Pythagorean theorem context to it all.

LOL, that’s great – I’m seriously honored. I feel like family already – Shaun doesn’t speak to me either when she gets home from work. 8-)

PS: and if y’all’ll stop yelling at me, I’ll let you feel her fake ta-ta’s while she’s taking a bath before her next show. (Hat’s off to N8, of course.)

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

Braves4Ever, can you imagine how the Shea Faithful would react seeing AJ strike out in a big situation and walk back to the dugout with that ridiculous smirk on his face?

By Niels Boor

December 4, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

chrisklob—

If KC can psych you, you must be mighty easily psyched.

By JasonInMaine

December 4, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB. I was hoping for something like 75-25, but oh well…I wouldn’t mind Willits!

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, I sure wouldn’t put too much credence in what another team’s front office thinks, or says, about Chuck James. I don’t think he’s an injury risk. He’s pitched pretty consistently for the last 4 or 5 years, with just a short stint out last year.

I DO think that if Bobby Cox gets down on a guy for not throwing strikes, or for not taking direction, he’s as good as gone. Witness McBride, Davies, Wickman, etc.

Don’t know if Bobby is at that point with Chuck or not. Personally, I hope not, but who knows?! I think if we trade him for a stopgap player, it indicates more of an attitude problem, or personality confict, than just a problem with his performance.

By NCBravesFan

December 4, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Personally, and I’ll probably take flack for this … but I think the Yankees should have let ARod walk and used the cash to shore up some of their other weaknesses.

Dude’s a salary albatross who hasn’t done squat in the postseason.

No matter though … the Braves have helped their cause in the NL … and I hate the Yanks anyway!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

Hey, JK, yeah I googled “MLB CF” and came up with Willits’ name. Looks like Frank Wren did the same thing.

By Robert S

December 4, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

Well DOB, it looks like Bill is still the “prophet of doom” over here. Trade Tex and Hudson? Maybe if the Braves are 35-58 at the trade deadline, but otherwise, no chance.

With the additions of Jurrjens, Hernandez, Anderson, not to mention Lillibridge last year and a bumper crop of minor league prospects, we still have a lot of great players in the pipeline. The Braves are in a position of strength, not weakness, and they can make trades like they did for Tex without gutting their system.

They can still do so as they proved today by trading Ascanio for Ohman, now becoming the “other” lefty in the pen who no longer has to deal with Wrigley Field, and Infante, who still has some upside to him.

There’s no one in the NL East that looks like a sure fire thing right now, but for my money, with the additions the Braves have made so far and still will make (and Wren is no slouch!) they have as good a shot as any to win the NL East next year.

And remember, a 90 win team went to the World Series last year, and an 83 win team won in 2006, so you don’t have to be perfect top to bottom. Just win when it matters….

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

chrisklob It wouldn’t be pretty for sure. I have my doubts about Andruw flourishing ANYWHERE . BC protected him and pampered him alot. I like Andruw but he was dismal last year. In most places he’d been benched or hitting 8th or 9th. He needs another father figure but a tough love kinda guy. A Leyland or Sparky Anderson type. Gosh that would be all we need , for the Tigers to get Andruw too, lol That’d just be sick if he bounces back. Can’t think of where he might fit, I guess Torre fits the bill as much as any. Maybe Hillman, or Fredi.

By fastasballs

December 4, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

MBLtraderumors.com must have a spy over on the blog because it wasn’t 20 minutes or so after DOB wrote his 9:01 post that they had the Willits rumor up & linked here.

By Pompous N8

December 4, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

I’m not so sure Chuck James is ever gonna be more than 4th spot in the rotation material. Maybe 3rd, if the top to are stellar.

That being, said, I wouldn’t have a problem, seeing what influence Glavine (since the pretty much pitch the same way) would have on him.

Maybe Glavine can teach him that 3rd pitch to allow him to go another inning or two. I mean, seriously. Who better to tutor a guy on how soft-tossing lefties should work to get a lineup out.

Of course the same could be said for Jo-Jo, and if the Braves are “higher” on Jo-Jo, then Chuck might be a goner already.

By Gator

December 4, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Maybe I missed something but other than about 100 more games of experience how is Willits any better than Anderson, and is the difference worth a prospect? I hope Wren isn’t having too much fun or just too many coctails at the meetings. He’s done well so far but lets keep the kids unless we find some decent power such as McLouth.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

What a freakin steal for both the Tigers and Marlins. The Tigers get Cabrera to play 3B in a lineup that already has Pudge, Guillen, Renteria, Granderson, Ordonez, and Sheffield. Willis joins a rotation that already features Verlander, Rogers, Robertson, and Bonderman.

The Marlins get a guy who could be a bonafide ace in Andrew Miller and Maybein who is a stud propsect who is ready to play now. Great deal.

The Yankees actually will be in a lot of trouble if the Red Sox get Santana and it looks they are. Their rotation will be: Santana, Beckett, Schilling, Dice-K, and one of Bucholz, Lester, or Wakefield.

The Red Sox, Tigers, and Indians are all better teams. And the Angles might be better as well. Poor Yankees.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Niels, that post was intended to make people think about something that hadn’t really been discussed here. That is that perhaps Chuckie truly IS an injury risk and ATL is better trading him now while he still has value.

I don’t know enough about pitching mechanics to know whether or not he is. Was KC trying to psyche FW out? Who knows? None of us here do, that’s for sure.

I’m not advocating trading him. I said in my post that I’ve never supported that. Just trying to stir up conversation, that’s all.

Steamboat, Don’t know if Bobby is at that point with Chuck or not. Personally, I hope not, but who knows?! I think if we trade him for a stopgap player, it indicates more of an attitude problem, or personality confict, than just a problem with his performance.

I’m not talking about present performance, I’m talking about future performance. If the Braves predict future, severe problems for him, would it be wise to move him.

Frankly, I’d be really ticked off if they traded him for a stop gap CF. With such a premium on starting pitching he’s got to be worth much more than that.

By SNIPER-69

December 4, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

The Mets right now are a 90+ wins team and here’s why: Pedro will be back a full season making up for the loss of Glavine. Duaner Sanchez will return and be a stopper from the right side in the bullpen. Luis castillo will start the season with the Mets making the top of their lineup along with Jose Reyes among the best in the NL. Ryan church replaces Shawn green in right field improves their defense and a little bit of an upgrade on offense. There you have it brave fans.

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Fastasballs

I’ve often wondered how MLBtraderumors.com gets DOB’s stuff up there so quickly. Literally like 10 seconds after he posts something. Is Tim Dierkes on this blog??!?!

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

I find the Royals take on James very interesting. Wonder how many other teams feel the same including the one James currently pitches for?

The Royals take on James was the same crap we heard about Hudson. Hudson hasn’t been Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux since he got here, not doubt, but after last season, the guts he showed, I’m glad we got him and I think he’ll continue on just fine despite the take by others that he’s too small to compete.

The Royals, headed by Dayton Moore, know exactly how valuable James is. They also know he had a “down” year and are smart to ask for more. The Braves would be fools to follow suit and give into the demands. At the least they should let James have a year of toutoring under Glavine to find out what he can learn. If he produces the same result, then we are still better off with him in the 4th or 5th spot than every other team is.

To put it simply, because I’m lit up like a Christmas tree and hitting back space more than a letter key, … trading Chuck James for DeJesus makes no sense and is one of the single dumbest ideas posted as of late. I’m glad the Royals got all high and mighty about it. Keep James. At least for another season.
I mean, what the hell, we sat through HoRam longer than this and he never performed as well.

Guess who, from June 27th hit .257 with a .357 OBP to go with a very robust and solid .293 slugging.
That’s Reggie Willits.

Give the man (Willits) Props. How hard is that to slug under .300? He managed to keep his OPS under .700 for the majority of his season. Talk about a singles hitter. It’s either one base, maybe a walk, and out for this guy.
If James is offered for this clown, I’ll be upset. If the Angles reject James with the “too small” line, you know James is a keeper.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 4, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

The difference between Willits and Anderson is that 100 games. Willits has shown (albeit) for one season that he can do it at the major league level and in a tougher league whereas Anderson had two weeks experience. I would be okay with Anderson going into the season but Willits would likely be the better player.

By dadgum

December 4, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

All you guys can like the latest trades but the Braves have better players in the minors ready to back up on the major level while learning the ropes than what they got. Give Wren a big “F” on this trade. In contrast give Detroit the big “A” so far. They have absolutely stolen the early returns. STOLEN. Detroit is now positioned to take a shot at the Red Sox especially if they don’t land Santana.

By Braves4Ever

December 4, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

* Sniper-69* Those are some seriously rose colored glasses you have there. You must have been at Omars house drinking the kool-aid. Just keep believing … yeah that’s it just keep believing…

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

We’ll get another blog up tomorrow, folks. This one’s filled up pretty quick. Lots of good debate and banter.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

Personally, I think Miller is a better pitcher than Willis. But also personally, I like Willis and hope he bounces back.

This is two fold mainly. I like Willis’ old-school-esque delivery. I love watching that work. But, mainly, I have a running bet that Willis will be good for a while. Now that he is in the AL, I can cheer and hope even more with minimal retribution and struggle for my Braves.

So, here’s to hoping Willis and Cabrera have a tremendous time in Detroit, poverty, foreclosures, Michael Moore and all.

And here’s to the Indians beating the Tigers in the regular season and collapsing to the Braves in the World Series.

Not to hit the bike and the open road and hope I don’t get hit by a Mack truck.

It’s Cold out there today. It’s cold out there every day.

By TJ

December 4, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

The Reds are willing to trade Hamilton, but they would prefer not to deal him to another club in the National League Central.

Jerry Crasnick

GET HIM FRANK WREN

By dack jerrick

December 4, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Ohman? Oh man! Saw him in several games this year. Might be time to start drinking heavily.

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Someone asked who other guy removed (besides Harris) from 40-man roster, because he didn’t think Ascanio was on 40-man. Of course he was on 40-man. The guy was recalled by the Braves three times last season and spent about one-third of the season on the major league team.

What, did you think they dropped him from the 40-man since the end of the season?

By Efrim

December 4, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul

I don’t think you have to worry about James for Willits. I am not really sure who we would trade for Willits……

I am hoping Josh Anderson isn’t our CF on opening day for 2008. We don’t need a ton of offense from our CF, but we need something. I am not too sure Josh Anderson could give the Braves .270/.320/.400 in a full year. Who knows?

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Sniper69, here’s a link to an article about your beloved Mets that you might want to read.

But then again, you might NOT want to.

10Paul, are the lights on your “Christmas tree” the kind that twinkle on and off?

dadgum, you need to explain yourself when you give FW a big “F” for this trade. And I didn’t realize that this was some sort of contest amongst mlb teams about who could make the biggest splash. Nobody and I mean N-O-B-O-D-Y expected FW to make any earth moving trades. His objectives were simple: lefty reliever, backup shortstop, possibly a stop gap CF. He accomplished two of those goals while dealing from a position of depth. He also only added about $3m to payroll. How do you see this as a big FAIL for him?

By Overlord

December 4, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Is thorman still around? Is he the braves plan as tex backup? What about infante…….how good is this guy? speed? OBP? steals? whats makes his so special to deal him for ascanio? What about Ohman? never heard or seen this 2 new braves….. could anyone make some coments. Any word on who is going to backup brian behind hp. Any news on hampton hamstring?

Lots of questions but i have been busy, not been able to follow too close.

thanks.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Sniper, here’s another one you should read.

I hope you have some nausea pill nearby.

By BabyGoatEater

December 4, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

When I first saw the trade today I thought it might be a bad one, considering the upside of Acosta. Then I looked at Infante’s stats. That guy really is a great super-utility guy. I do think we had a great super-utility guy in Lillibridge, but thats besides the point. I guess it never hurts to let him develop some more.

By Steamboat

December 4, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Funny thing is, Marlins still have a pretty nice young team, with Jacobs, Uggla, Willingham, Ramirez, and Hermidia - and now Maybin, if he’s ready.

Let’s face it - Willis hasn’t helped them much the last couple of years. And if a couple more of their young pitchers get healthy (I guess Sanchez, J Johnson, Nolasco are still around???), plus the guys they picked up from Detroit… they’re really developing a pretty nice team.

Detroit’s lineup is awesome, but they better win in ‘08 or ‘09, ‘cause the bills are gonna come due big time then, and they’ve traded their entire minor league system to the Braves and Marlins. It’ll be interesting.

By Gator

December 4, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Willits may have more experience but other teams also have more experience of him. Look at his stats for the last half of his season. Not quite Willie Harris but he still is not worth what the Angels want for him. My prediction is that if we go to ST with our 3 or 4 guys, Anderson will win the job, stay hot for 2 months get really cold for 1 month. Then we will finally see my highschool buddy Schafer and he will repeat the process. But lets get Rios and give Schafe’ 1 more year.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

dob, your missing a pretty great show on gpb. stevie ray vaughn live: hard, pretty good stufff.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

uga, what is gpb? is that a local station?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Overlord, Hampton’s hamstring is healing, he said in a phone call to the GM. It’s only been a couple weeks, but he’s beginning to throw again. Won’t pitch any more in winter ball this year.

I asked whether they considered having him return to winter ball, and was told that by the time he’d be ready to pitch again, they’d be starting or nearly starting the playoffs, when the big-name countrymen start playing for their hometown teams and aren’t looking to have a rehabbing pitcher work a couple innings or so in crucial games.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

ChrisKlob: After that freezing ride home, every thing twinkles.

People always talk about the weather out here. What they don’t bring up is two fold: August sucks, just like everywhere else on the planet. And the winter temperature differentials are impossible to dress for. It’ll be 90 at mid-day and 50 by 6pm. You’ll go out in flip-flops, shorts and tee, and freeze your arse off as soon as the sun disappears.

Yeah I know 50 isn’t that cold. But it still isn’t t-shirt/shorts/flip-flop weather. You just can’t dress for 50 when it’s 90 out.

By i cant take it anymore

December 4, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

where have the haren comments gone? Poor, poor andruw. the tigers are really looking like tigers and old wren is filling up the holes. it would be nice not to worry/shout at chuck jiggity anymore. it might feel like it did when kyle davies left, you know, surprised and a little unsure, then better after a while. hey david, what are our chances of leaving the meeting with satisfied fans?

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Overlord, as for your other questions about Thorman and today’s trade, Thorman was addressed in my story in today’s paper (posted on Braves page at our website) and I gave details on the guys they acquired today and why deal was done in my trade story also posted on our website.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

what are our chances of leaving the meeting with satisfied fans?

I’d guess about 50/50. Half the fans will be satisfied. The other half will be p*ing and moaning that FW didn’t get Haren, Santana, and every other unattainable, unnecessary guy out there.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

The Angels absolutely blew it on this one. Totally dropped the ball. Cabrera would have made them a monster, now they head into 2008 with Hunter as their “big bat”. Hunter is not a big bat. He’s certainly an improvement over MattHGHews, but he is no where close to the thunder Cabrera is.

By Dan

December 4, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, what’s likelier to happen first: Braves acquire a CF or Santana to the Red Sox?

By nOLIE

December 4, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

Nolie, the packages being offered for Santana are not that great. Huges and Cabrera from the Yankees and Lester and Coco Crips from the Red Sox.Mike

sorry but your homerism is showing . More than those guys you mentioned are included in the proposals and Hughes is rated way higher than and guy the Braves have.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Klob: what is gpb? is that a local station?

It chanels into the after life. That’s how they have a SRV live show.

By uga-brave

December 4, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

chisklob,

in answer to your question, public broacasting. marley is on now performing at londons’s rainbow theatre in 1977. they have had good stuff on all week.

By Esmerejindo H. Vargas

December 4, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves should go for David DeJesus; give green light on the DeJesus-for-James trade if its still even real. In DeJesus we would have a very reliable centerfielder. As far as the pitching is concerned, we should let Jurjens be our 4th starter, and let Bennett battle JoJo for 5th spot. If Hampton ever gets healthy, put him in bullpen.

Good job on Infante, remember, he’s backup, so I think he’s good if one of the boys get injured. Ohman I’m not sure I like him yet, but if Cox can use him on lefties I guess that’s ok.

Give DeJesus-for-James a go!!
Also, let’s get another reliever!!

Go get that 2008 NL Pennant, Braves!

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

ChrisKlob: what is gpb? is that a local station?

Go out in the back woods of Georgia or South Carolina. When you reach an area that is completely void of Chickens or other small game hens, you’re probably in a good area to tune into that sort of vodoo.

By TennesseePaul

December 4, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

The more I look at this Tigers/Florida deal, the more it looks like a quantity vs. quality trade. I think what the Angels were offering was more valuable than what the Marlins received from the Tigers. But perhaps the Marlins didn’t think they’d get much for Dontrelle on his own. Nevertheless, the Tigers are a monster after this. That is one fearsome lineup they have. The Fish are still several years from clinching a Wild Card and taking a WS. Hopefully the Braves can some how manage to claim them all before then.

Who am I kidding? The Braves team as built now doesn’t stand a chance against the BoSox or Tigers.

By chrisklob

December 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

10Paul, you ARE lit up like a Christmas tree, aren’t you?!

By David O'Brien

December 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, that’s good stuff….

Folks, as good as Cabrera was for the Marlins, wait until he gets around some veteran players and Jim Leyland to keep him in line in Detroit. Cabrera will be an absolute monster.

Braves gotta like seeing him go to the other wise, considering how he’s hit against them for much of his career. Not so with Willis, who they Braves handled with ease more often than not.

By joebrave

December 4, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

How in the he11,can anyone here make a statement,that Brent lillibridge is anything more than a p****** minor league prospect for sh1ts sake,that little sumbitch ain’t seen a damn day past a ball yet,get a life you ignorant sumbitches,and one more thing that little turd has never played CF,so stop the incessant,whining about his @ss in CF. know what the HE11 YOU”RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE!!!!!

By joebrave

December 5, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

And,another thing,If I have to hear one more Tennesee volunteer WHINE about,getting their @sses beat,I’M GOING to SCREAM!!!!

By uga-brave

December 5, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

baseball tonight is on the deuce right now. steve phillips just said he thinks andruw is going to take a one year deal somewhere. no way anyone can convince me that if the braves still had the money, that andruw would not be worth a one year gamble. look i know he had a absolutely lousy year but do you really believe he is gonna hit .220 again.

we have known for a long time that there are the haves and the have nots. fortunately most of the haves are in the A.L. speaking of prospects former brave uber prospect jose cappellean just got traded again. to think that marte, meyer, and cappellean were three of the braves best prospects four years ago.

so heres my point trade whatever it takes to get haren. trot out a rotation of smoltz, haren, hudson, and glavine and you could put chief noca homa in center and we would be just fine.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

ChrisKlob: You don’t even know.

By Roman Gal

December 5, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

joebrave, tell us how you really feel…

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

ummmm, joebrave, hate to say this but lillebridge spent the year in AA and AAA. Did okay too, hitting .275 at Misissippi and .287 at Richmond.

By BabyGoatEater

December 5, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Lillibridge would make a great utility player. Like I said “utility player”. I don’t think he’s ready to play full time and hit 3rd, just a utility player. And before you call someone ignorant, why don’t you do your own homework. Lillibridge has been raved about by many many people who know him well and think he could make a transition to just about any position other than catcher and pitcher. He’s a great prospect and I’m sure thats why Frank went out and got another very good utility player. That way Lillibridge can grow a little more in AAA, and learn to hit top tear minor league pitching before he gets thrown to the fiore in the majors.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

joebrave: Fair enough. Here you go. This should smooth things over and help you sleep well tonight

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

uga, AJ has been in decline for the better part of two years. That’s not a slump. While his defense is still way above average, he’s not the AJ of old.

Bottom line is this: AJ has shown absolutely zero ability to accept coaching from TP. He’s allowed himself to get out of shape. He’s stubborn and won’t change his ways. If he is to revitalize is career and legacy as one of the best CF’s to ever play the game, he needs a fresh start. If he goes back to ATL, he’ll simply fall into the same old ruts he’s been in forever. Dude needs a change of scenery.

I wish him well. Truly I do. But coming back to ATL, even for a one year, reduced contract is not in his best interest, nor is it in the Braves best interest.

Interesting you brought up Marte, Meyer and Capellan. All three were top prospects at one time. All three were traded in controversial trades. NONE of the three has panned out. In fact, while some criticize the trades JS made, an argument could be made that two of those trades were excellent for the Braves, the other was a wash.

By mike

December 5, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

Nolie, let me see a guy with a 4.46 era who averaged 5.5 innings per start is more valuable than a strong fielding shortstop who hit 282 with 13hr and 42sb and an athletic outfielder who hit 295 with 19hr, 100rbi, and 17 sb. Yeah you got me there man

By joebrave

December 5, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

TennPaul,that much is true,but for sh1tsake,Everything,does Not revolve round the Vols,man the whole damn State is crying,Lsu beat your @sses,take it suck it up and go Outback,that’s what I do when I have to pee!!!!ain’t no sugar Out-Back

By BabyGoatEater

December 5, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

Chrisklob,

After seeing those articles, it just makes me love the job John did for us all those years even more. I think FRank is doing a great job too, but he’s only been t=in that position for what 2 months…..I’ll wait and see.

By joebrave

December 5, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

What I’m saying about Lillibridge,is it is a very asinine statement to make,Oh!He can be our Cf,horsesh1t,he is a SS,not Cf,If he was a Cf,He would be playing there,and You’re right He is just a prospect!!! That’s all He is until He gets to M.L.,and that .275 avg in the minors translates into about .212 in the Majors!!!!

No Way Bobby Cox,Plays anyone in a position they have never played unless he runs out of Players,to assume He can be the Everyday CF in IGNORANT!!!!!

By joebrave

December 5, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

I’m impatiently waiting for someone to start pledging we acquire Carl Crawford,or Roccooooooo Baldelli!!!!!

That makes about as much sense as Lillibridge in CF!!!

By uga-brave

December 5, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this

chrisklob,

i know druw has been long gone for a while. maybe a change is just what he needs. my only point is if the braves were lets say still ted’s team do you really believe druw and edgar would both be gone. braves current management is working under constraints that are fustrating. i think escobar is going to be a great ss. and from what we have heard schafer has got great potential. would love to see what it would take to get haren. propects like lillibridge, b. jones, jjj, chuck james or whoever no one knows what their future holds. haren sure would make a statement that we are back to what we were. DOMINANT STARTING PITCHING.

By BabyGoatEater

December 5, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

Oh by the way….Where have the Phils been the last few weeks? No moves….?

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

uga, This hasn’t been Turner’s team for years now. Yes, it would be nice if they had an unlimited budget, but let’s face it, they haven’t for a long time. FW et al can’t live in the past. They have to live in today’s reality. Whatever that is. I say that because it hasn’t been defined publicly. Payroll has gone up, in spite of what many naysayers believe.

If this were still Ted’s team, perhaps they would have made a big move for a SP like Haren or Santana. I really believe that things would be different. They surely wouldn’t be as concerned about dealing with Borass if they had all the money that they needed.

Either way, I still think AJ is gone. He’s a shell of his former self. Letting him walk was not just a business decision, it was a personnel decision too. Edgar might still be around. He’s a good offensive SS and by all accounts he’s a good clubhouse guy too. But I’m very confident that Escobar can fill in nicely, while providing much better defense at the position.

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Goateater, good question. Haven’t heard a single word about them involved in a single trade lately.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

Nolie, let me see a guy with a 4.46 era who averaged 5.5 innings per start is more valuable than a strong fielding shortstop who hit 282 with 13hr and 42sb and an athletic outfielder who hit 295 with 19hr, 100rbi, and 17 sb. Yeah you got me there man

you’re right I do. When trading prospects its mostly about perception. hughes is considered right now as one of the top 5 or so pitching prospects in all of baseball. lillibridge ain’t even listed in the top 50 in one of the latest polls. BBA rated hin the 10th best prospect just in his league a year or so ago. He is a good prospect but absolutely nobody not connected with the Braves considers him in the class with Hughes,or any of another dozen guys being offered in the various pitchers sweepstakes right now. Jones is in much the same boat though rated perhaps a step higher . Now what actually happens in the future might be a different thing. Hughes might get hurt, and Brent or Jones might improve enough to be impact players(though I fail to see where Brent fits into the club long term)you never know, but when demanding talent back you play the odds and ask for the highest rated prospects available and none of the guys that most on here are mentioning are rated that awful highly. Billy has Haren tied up cheaply for 3 more years or so, He is absolutely in the drivers seat, Meet his price or walk. These things don’t take place in a vacuum you know. there are 3 or 4 well-heeled AL teams that are gonna offer way more than a #4 starter and 2 unproven B level rated prospects.

By uga-brave

December 5, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

the phils offered rowand arbitration and they traded for lidge before the meetings. hammels, myers, and moyer are pretty similar to our top three. their offense if rowand accepts arbitration is probably the best in the n.l. now that cabrerra is with the tigers look for them to go after brandon inge to play 3rd.

By Wayne in Utah

December 5, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

Guys, I would trade Lillibridge in a heartbeat to get a guy like Haren, but I really don’t think that is the way the Braves will go.

And if a guy like Lillibridge does come around, then you can ALWAYS find a place for him.

joebrave Man, who pushed your button tonight? Now you wouldn’t object if BL turned into a top flight major leaguer now, would you? Some are calling him a young Craig Biggio. Of course, he has to do it first, but heck they all had to start somewhere. Some guys are gamers, and that’s the term that scouts, etc use in describing Lillibridge.

BTW, Lillibridge played CF in college for a year or two. Probably could handle it if he got in a few innings to get his feet wet. Those kind of guys can play almost anywhere.

Night all, I guess the Haren trade to the Braves will have to wait until tomorrow.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this

nOLIE, you just wrot of Lillibridge: “He is a good prospect but absolutely nobody not connected with the Braves considers him in the class with Hughes,or any of another dozen guys being offered in the various pitchers sweepstakes right now.”

Oh, really?

Baseball America’s league-manager survey rated Lillibridge the No. 7 prospect in the International League after the 2007 season, right behind No. 6 prospect Jacoby Ellsbury (you may have heard of him) and No. 5 Jed Lowrie, and just ahead of No. 8 Yunel Escobar.

Ellsbury and Lowrie are Boston prospects who both are prominent figures in the Santana trade negotiations, in case you’ve missed it.

But nice try, nOLIE. I’m sure you had some folks buying your uninformed spiel.

The rundown in the BA rankings read, in part: “Lillibridge reminded one opposing manager of Khalil Greene, as a 5-foot-11 shortstop with excellent leverage in his swing. Unlike Greene, Lillibridge offers above-average speed….”

By the way, Ellsbury hit .298 with 14 doubles, two homers and 28 RBIs in 363 at-bats for Pawtucket in the IL.

Lowrie, a shortstop (like Lillibridge), hit .300 with 16 doubles, five homers and 21 RBIs in 160 at-bats for Pawtucket.

Lillibridge hit .287 with 14 doubles, 10 homers and 41 RBIs in 321 at-bats for Richmond in the IL.

They are all three — Lillibridge and the Sox guys — the same age (23).

Anything more, nOLIE?

By Wayne in Utah

December 5, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this

In honor of our beloved, but since departed, Andruw Jones. Written before JS was bumped upstairs, and AJ was bumped out.

Ballad of Andruw Jones ( to the tune of “Curtis Lowe”)

Well I used to wake the mornin, before the rooster crowed

Searchin for soda bottles to get myself some dough

Brought em down to the corner, down to the country store

Cash em in and give my money to watch a man named Andruw Jones

Well Andruw was a bat man with a pull hitting style

When the pitcher would mess one up, he’d hit that ball a mile.

He used to own and old hickory, when he’d swing he’d make a breeze

I’d lay down my ticket money and he’d whiff all day for me

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

He looked to be 40, maybe I was 10

Momma used to whoop me, but I’d go see him again.

I’d clap my hands, tomahawk chop, then I’d stomp my feet

He’d strike out a time or two and have another Krispy Kreme.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless, them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

On the day that he whiffed five times, everybody blogged to say

“If he woulda hit to right, we’d won that game today!”

Well he might have been famous, he could go get the ball.

And that day in Beantown, I think he hit the wall.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

Thanks for the memories, Andruw!

By BO

December 5, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this

From jon heyman SI.com LA Angles cf trade bait. Reggie Willits is among the club’s most popular players . Needs to play everyday, You got to love his hustle. 293 ba 28sb at the park at 4pm everyday for night games and last to leave. Fans will hate to see him go. ………HAYES ,he could be a steal for somebody. I think he’s better than a number of guys playing everyday in majors, and if he gets his chance to play regularly, he’ll show it….. Figgins is great! What more can you say…….. Mike Napolio would make a great back up catcher 75 games 10 hrs obp357 slg 443 247 ba. and 5 sb . Here are four player out of four the Braves Need. Each fill a need. I hope some are on Wrens list.

By Wayne in Utah

December 5, 2007 1:38 AM | Link to this

Dave I don’t envy you getting around at the Opryland complex. About 7-8 years back I got lost just trying to find my room while at a convention there! And I don’t drink.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

It’s OK, though, Wayne. You know why?

Because….

“I’m a hundred miles away son … ready to strike!”

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 1:51 AM | Link to this

… and do love the Ballad of Curtis Loew … err, Andruw Jones, especially “the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.”

Those who’ve only been around here a couple months or less probably won’t recognize that reference, but it’s a good one.

By Wayne in Utah

December 5, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this

Just remember Dave, your living our dream out there. Most of us would love to be a fly on your shoulder for just one day. Make us proud!

(thanks also for your updates!)

:-)

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 5, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this

I like Reggie Willits a lot , the problem is , do the Braves and Angels have compatible needs in order to facilitate a trade.

The BoSox/MLB home website has reported that the Sox have offered LHP Jon Lester ,CF Coco Crisp , SS Jed Lowrie and RHP Justin Masterson for Johan Santana. I don’t know what the Twins are waiting on , maybe for the Yankees to make a similar offer ? who knows.

Hell , I would arm twist the Sox into including right handed minor league relief pitcher Josh Papelbon (2006 48th round pick) in the deal and call it a day.

Papelbon went 5-8 with a 3.91 ERA and 18 saves in 2007.

By Wayne in Utah

December 5, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

great commercial….hope you get to sleep in a bit tomorrow. It’s only 12:18 here, so I am off, gotta 6am wakeup.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 5, 2007 2:23 AM | Link to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgJyLCTPLwI

Ya’ll enjoy. I’ve gotten wasted more than once listening to this classic Skynyrd tune.

By Mr. Wrestling #2

December 5, 2007 2:29 AM | Link to this

Is that really Peter Gammons on the $20 dollar bill?

By brian

December 5, 2007 3:00 AM | Link to this

Why has Chuck James so fallen out of favor? It is not like he is a flame thrower with bad mechanics who will break down (Gonzalez). So what if JoJo and Jair have passed him in the eyes of the Braves. Good for the future Braves starters. Chuck James could be a solid #3-4 starter for many years. I do not see how Chuck James could be so hot last offseason and so not this season. Yes he has many things to work on, but he will still be a solid pitcher. I hope the Braves keep him

By Martin

December 5, 2007 3:50 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB! how’s it going? With the talk latetly about the Braves making a push for Damian Miller, do you think they will consider to try to pursue Javy Lopez? Do you think they should?

By Plate Appearance

December 5, 2007 4:38 AM | Link to this

WRENTCHED TRADES

Yes, he’s done it again! You know the name by now — Frank Wren!

Just when I thought he couldn’t possibly make any worse trades than he’s made already, Frank got back in the water again, water that’s clearly well over his head.

Ohman for Ascanio? What another unbelievably bad trade!

I guess Frank never watched the Cubs play last year or saw Lou’s reluctance to use Ohman — or how he faltered in game after game.

So what did Frank do? He gave up a great arm for a mediocre arm — all because he had a spot to fill.

You’re running scared Frank — and blind.

You really don’t have to make trades to convince we fans you’re actually doing something. You could try being wise and discerning instead.

What’s your next move? Trading another Braves pitcher for another back up in CF?

You should have moved Lillibridge to CF and used him as a backup at SS. You didn’t need the CF’s from either Detroit or Houston — or this SS from the Cubs.

And you should have gotten a far better pitcher for Renteria, who I don’t believe you should have even traded in the first place.

My heart sank when I heard about the Garland for Cabrera trade, for example.

And now Willie bites the dust, because Frank has to justify the trades he’s made by — I assume — making room for one of his back-up CF’s on the 40 man roster. The result? The fans lose. Willie loses. And the Braves lose — games!

I haven’t liked a single move Wren has made — except for signing Glavine, which was really a non-move, as Tom wanted to return home anyway.

JS, make a strong executive decision now as President. Fire Wren and take back the helm at GM before Frank runs the Braves ship completely up on the rocks.

It’s already taking on water — thanks to Frank’s WRENtched trades!

Could there be a worse GM in the league? I can’t think of one.

Teams are taking advantage of him. It’s getting really ugly out there — or should I say WRENtched!

By David-ATL14

December 5, 2007 6:25 AM | Link to this

Nice line DOB!

Plate appearnace that may be the single most off base assinine rant on this blog that’s actually grounded in baseball.

Breathtakingly stupid.

By David

December 5, 2007 6:26 AM | Link to this

Wren’s been on the job for a month now, and some kneejerk reactionary is already saying he’s the worst GM in the league.

You gotta love the internet.

By wjones

December 5, 2007 6:55 AM | Link to this

Did anyone see the article where the Dbacks are thinking of perhaps using Owings some at 1B next year? I would assume he might also DH and PH some, too. That’s the kind of roster utilization that is needed with all the 12 and 13 man pitching staffs eroding the bench.

By BO

December 5, 2007 7:14 AM | Link to this

Frank Wren keep up the good work.

By JasonInMaine

December 5, 2007 7:14 AM | Link to this

DOB, how come you haven’t provided an updates yet this morning? (:

Wow, that Tigers/Marlins trade came fast and out of nowhere!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 5, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this

On the Detroit/Miami trade…. It is a good thing the Tigers have so many big bats because they sure don’t have a stellar defensive left side of the infield. Not saying they won’t catch balls hit right at them, well maybe not for Cabrea, but not a lot of range. Maybe they use him to DH a lot. Of course they could do the same with Willis.

For those of you who have given up on Chuck James, he was pitching with a partially torn rotator cuff from about the middle of last season. That could explain a lot. Also gives you an idea that the kid has some moxie. Those kind of injuries hut……

Now, is Cody Johnson available from the Marlins? Would be a decent centerfilder I would think.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 5, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

wjones DHing??? Did Arizona move to the AL during the winter meetings?

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Guess who this is: He hit .204 (44-for-216) with one homer, 50 strikeouts and a .297 OBP after June 27, and .105 (9-for-89) with one steal in his last 31 games. That’s Willie Harris.

And guess who this is: In 47 games after August 7th, (31-163), .190 AVG, .303 OBP, .264 SLG. That’s David Dejesus.

Uh, no thanks. Not for Chuck James.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

Braveheart I think you’re missing DOB’s point. Willie Harris as Braves prospect = Awesome. Willie Harris after Braves let him go = Not so good.

My God, what I thought was a trend is an absolute epidemic.

It even works in reverse for Mets prospects (See Milledge, Lastings A.)

By dadgum

December 5, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

Still nothing to get excited over, the trade that is. I mean we are splitting hairs with the pitcher swap and getting a backup SS who quite frankly won’t bring a lot to the table over say Lillibridge.

This will however give Lillibridge a chance to continue playing everyday in the minors instead of stunting his growth sitting the pine in Atlanta.

Rock on…..hoping a new blog is coming out of Nashville. SOON.

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Anders, I get what you are saying but I don’t think any of us thought Willie was any good. Most of us put him down in spring training, put him down when he got called up, were excited when he did well when he got called up but were waiting the whole time for the Devil to revoke the contract, and then were not surprised when the Devil did indeed revoke the contract and Willie reverted back to being Willie.

I think Coach and others were missing my point. As much as Willie stunk last year, his numbers were actually better than Dejesus. That does not mean I am mad at all because Willie got cut. He should have been DFA’d.

As for Milledge, I think the Mets made themselves better for next year. But aren’t you a little tired of some of these fussy, mouthy Mets vets getting Mets youngsters traded? Leiter did it with Kazmir and now Wagner with the whole know your place rook stuff with Milledge. I mean, come on. The Mets vets are not good enough to be sacrificing the future of that team. When Mel Hall was pulling that crap with Bernie Williams, and Wickman was pulling that crap with Mariano Rivera, the Yankees sent Mel Hall and Wickman packing and not Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera.

If anyone was a cancer on the Mets, it was Loduca and Wagner and their big mouths trashing fellow players, the manager, the GM, the pitching coach, etc….. and doing so publicly.

The Mets clubhouse just seems a place that is very divided by very old and very young and Latinos and English speaking players. Some of the vets on that team seem to need to learn their place.

Say what you will about Glavine but Glavine was not out there in the media trashing anyone on his own team. I don’t believe I heard Glavine ever publicly say something bad about his manager or pitching coach or catcher or the Latinos on the team like Loduca and Wagner did. Glavine just said I stunk and we all stunk for the last 6 weeks of the season. Glavine did not point fingers like some of the other Mets vets.

BTW, did you hear Ed Coleman say that Willie Randolph did not want Milledge traded?

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

dadgum, that trade was not made to make anyone excited. It was made to fill two needs. Why does acquiring a lefty reliever and back up SS need to be exciting? Did you expect FW to go to Nashville and bring home Santana, Haren, Bedard, and Cabrera?

By Thrillhouse44

December 5, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

Anders, you’re more observant than that. DOB was the first on here to point out Willie’s flaws last season. Remember when people would suggest that Willie would be our starting CF in 2008 and DOB would always point out that Willie hadn’t done anything since the first part of the season? Come on dude, you’re reaching.

I’m not saying your Muts get a fair shake on this blog, but you’re way off here, bud.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

Anders, what in the H are you talking about?

Seriously, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong about my opinion about Willie Harris. I never, ever, under any circumstances, called him a “prospect.” The guy’s 29 years old with a .247 career average and .318 OBP, for heaven’ sake.

Well-traveled? Yes. Called him that. Journeyman? Yes, called him that. Non-roster invitee? Yes, called him that. Pleasant surprise early last season? Yes, called him that. Saved the Braves’ butts for the first half last season, after Langerhans fell on his face and was traded? Yes, said that.

Pointed out many, many times after All-Star break how he was struggling, how the six-hit game broke up a dreadful one-month spell without an extra-base hit? Yes, said that. How he was the WORST HITTER ON THE TEAM for the second half? Yes, pointed that out this winter.

How he was never, under any circumstances, an option for center field next season despite the assertions and/or hopes of many folks here? Yes, said that repeatedly.

You want to make a groundless point? Fine. But don’t bring lies about what I’ve written into the argument. Willie Harris is one guy I’ve never portrayed as anything more than he was/is.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

David-ATL, I agree with your assessment of Plate Appearance’s post about “wrentched trades.” A new standard has been set. Or lowered. Or regurgitated.

By CC Rider

December 5, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

DOB, one quick question. One rumor popped up last night about Toronto offering Alex Rios to the Giants for Tim Lincecum and no other players were mentioned to be included. It seems like if this is the price of Lincecum or close, it would be a great opportunity for the Braves to make an offer. We have a surplus of middle infielders, outfielders and No. 4 and 5 starters. It is something of a risk with the worry about Lincecum’s throwing motion and small size, but I would think a package of K. Johnson or Lillibridge (the one who stays is our 2nd basemen), Brandon Jones( Diaz would start until J. Heyward is ready) Gorky Hernandez( Jordan Schafer is higher thought of) and Chuck James( big ballpark would help the flyball Pitcher). I would think for a rebuilding San Fran team this would be a better step than Rios alone. It would also give the Braves another shot at a potential No.1 starter to build a rotation around along with Hudson, Reyes, Jurjjens, Rohrborough, Hansen, Morton and Locke. I think if the Braves can sign Texiera, the only future need will be finding a replacement down the road for Chipper. McCann, Texiera, Lillibridge, Escobar, Heyward, Schafer, Franceour. We just need to find more top starting pitching and this could be the start.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Braveheart , you lost this argument yesterday. Now your just being retarded.

By Thrillhouse44

December 5, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

With the Nats’ plethora of outfielders, what happens to Langerhans? Has anyone heard of their plans for Langy?

By Will

December 5, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

I am a Braves fan living in the midwest and unfortunately am force fed Chicago Cubs games quite frequently. Just a fair warning on Will Ohman, that guy is not a very good pitcher. I used to laugh at my Cubs fan friends when he came in, but i guess the tables are turned…

By Jon

December 5, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, not to be correcting here, but Willie had a 6 hit game. :)

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Apparently , Plate Appearances is unfamiliar with Lou Pinella. It doesn’t take much for a pitcher to get in Lou’s doghouse. He has as much as said he doesn’t like pitchers.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

Braveheart/Thrillhouse I wasn’t being literal. I was just making a point. Any time I brought Milledge up I heard what a gangsta he was, Over rated , devalued blah, blah,blah. I said and still say he’s got raw talent that needed to be harnessed. Will he be an All star? Who knows? Will he be a good solid ball player - probably. I didn’t want to trade him either, but I understand why Minaya did . Then the Mets trade him for two starting players and now I hear on this blog they didn’t get fair value. Can’t have it both ways. Lews actually owned up to it being a good trade for the Mets for next year also. As for Braves propects - I’m not really into the minor league aspect of baseball. I’ve actually learned a lot from many on here about it. But there is definetly a slant towards any player in their system. Even guys like Gorky Hernandez who most hadn’t even heard of the day the Braves acquired him. Now he’s viewed as a top prospect. Not saying he isn’t, but how many other guys are there out there in other systems that Braves fans aren’t considering when saying the Richmond guys are the best? Kind of rambled here but I think you get my point. Not looking for a war here.

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Braveheart , you lost this argument yesterday. Now your just being retarded.

Coach Tell me how I lost that argument. Because you called me a drunk? And now because you are calling me retarded? I posted the stats for you refuting your position that David Dejesus had a better season than Willie. Dejesus didn’t. It’s clear. The stats are not lying.

Oh, never mind, I get it. This is like the Thorman options thing again isn’t it? No matter how wrong you are, you are gonna stick to your guns and insist you are right, ain’t ya?

Have you figured out yet what the options situation is with Thorman? Is it gonna take you as long to figure out you are as wrong about Willie/Dejesus last season as you were about Thorman’s options?

Yep, only a drunken retard would not trade a slightly above average pitcher like Chuck James for a guy who did this in his last 47 games after August 7th: .190 AVG, .303 OBP, .264 SLG.

No wonder the Royals are trying to get Andruw Jones.

By flange1

December 5, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Anders,

I have seen your comments on the Milledge trade and your comparisons to the Braves 2 for 1 deal.

You have asked, are the Mets better with Church and Schnieder than with Milledge.

I think they are better. You have upgraded at catcher on defense (downgraded on offense) and downgraded slightly in RF with Church vs Milledge, but you helped your clubhouse.

I think the thing that Braves fan are shocked by is the low trade value of the highly touted Mets prospect Lasting Milledge. Last year and even this year we heard that the Mets were going to use Milledge as the centerpiece of a trade for a number 1 starter.

It seems his value is much less than that.

You keep on harping about the braves overvaluing their prospects, don’t you think the Mets overvalued Milledge?

I like the Braves trade. Wren picked up 2 pieces that were needed for one relief prospect. On to CF!

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

After the Sheffield, Edgar, Cabrera, and Dontrelle trades, how many minor leaguers do the Tigers have left? That farm system has to be about barren right about now. If not, then, damn, how deep are their minor leagues?

As for the Nats, that is a good question Thrillhouse. They have Kearns, Dukes, Wily Mo, Dmitri Young, Nick Johnson, Langerhans, and Milledge. One or two need to be sent packing.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

DOB You never and I mean never (to paraphrase a certain AJC reporter) respond to me unless it’s a slam dunk smack down. Read my previous post. I wasn’t being literal, I’m sure you’ve seen me use the = awesome/=not so good thing many times on here. - Don’t get your panties in such a bunch.

BTW- Now that I know you haven’t completely blocked my posts on your laptop, you think the Mets trade of Milledge makes them better next year? I’ll await your smarmy response.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Willie Harris David DeJesus Games: 117 157 AB: 344 605 Runs: 56 101 Hits: 93 157 2B : 20 29 3B: 8 9 HR: 2 7 RBI: 32 58 SB : 17 10 CS : 11 4 BB : 40 64 SO : 71 83 BA : .270 .260 OBP: .349 .351 SLG: .392 .372 TB : 135 225

Now , Braveheart. Please explain to us again your statement that Willie Harris had better numbers than David DeJesus. :)

By chrisklob

December 5, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Anders, one point to remember: This is a BRAVES blog. Braves fans are going to have a higher opinion of our prospects than fans of any other franchise. We’ll also hold a lower opinion of other franchises’ prospects, especially those of our closest rivals.

Some of the bloggers here have a fair sense of reality. Others don’t. But don’t hate on us because we really like our guys and don’t like yours. It’s only natural.

By Lew

December 5, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

CCRider-A couple of things. First of all, just because Toronto offered Rios straight uop for Lincecum, doesn’t mean that the Giants have stopped laughing quite yet.

Second-KJ or Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, Hernandez AND Chuck James? Have you lost your flipping mind? That is quite possibly one of the worst proposals I’ve ever heard.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Braveheart , yea….your a complete IDIOT. Have a nice day.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Braveheart On another subject (please) if I’m Santana I’m thinking I need to get my money now. With the trade the Tigers made yesterday plus the Indians being as good as they are and the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels in the AL there is definetly a risk that Santana will have another OK year but not up to his previous standards. I wouldn’t want to wait until after next year to make the deal - I doubt he’ll comand more than he’s looking at now anyway. All the risk is downward. I think some of the pressure just shifted to Santana who was in the cat bird seat until yesterday’s trade by the Tigers. If I was him I’d be looking to get out of the AL where the best 5 or 6 teams now reside.Monster lineups abound. Also, I don’t see the NL getting the homefield for the WS in my lifetime again - Another bad idea by The “Nutty Professor Selig”

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Okay, I think inferring the Mets clubhouse issues were due to Milledge is a bit unfair. I actually think the likes of Paul LoDuca had more to do with that.

Now, as for CF, I can admit when I was wrong. The more I think about it and after reading some very strong arguments David DeJesus is not the guy if it means giving up Chuck James. However, I think Reggie Willits is. I don’t care if the guy doesn’t hit homeruns. Who cares! Really! If he can get on base (which he does) and steal bases (whiche he does) and score runs (which he does) and play solid if not spectacular defense (which he does) then he is a valubable guy. I bet if you ask Mike Scioscia about him he will tell you that the Angels may have not even made the playoffs without him. He rejuvenated the top of that lineup after Matthews Jr. struggled and while Figgins was hurt.

Fact is, Willits could serve more than as a stopgap for CF he could provide insurance for B. Jones in LF and could be one helluva threat off the bench once Schafer is ready.

By Billy Walsh

December 5, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Dave, who do you think the Angels were asking for Willits? How about Kelly Johnson? Then you could put Lillibridge at second. You have your centerfielder for the next few years with Willits, and when Jordan is ready you could put him in left. There is no possible way the braves could trade for Haren or Bedard. The Yanks and the sox are the only ones who have the blue chip pitchers that everyone wants. The only team that has someone of that caliber, that is not a pitcher is the reds with Jay Bruce.

By robertE

December 5, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

It is silly to argue of which is better Willy or David. Neither of them are worth Chuck James when you have two 40 yr old starting pitchers and another fragile SP. We need all the insurance we can get. Especially, when you have 4 potential Center Fielders (Anderson, Schafer, Blanco, and Lillibridge). Not to mention the Infante which I understand can play almost anywhere.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Chrisklob I get that and it’s fair. I don’t hate anyone on here. It’s a blog so hate is a pretty strong word. We all naturally lean towards our own guys, including me, but I think if you followed some of the responses I get they’re vicous, name calling over the top responses. I’ve learned to ignore the repeat offenders and I don’t respond in kind. I try to be funny and yes sarcastic too. I try to add some balance and get some too. I get more good stuff than bad on here so I choose to come back.

By flange1

December 5, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Anders,

I think Santana will be traded to Boston in the next 48 hours and will sign a nice extension for big bucks.

I think the Sox will be a better team with Santana than the Tigers will be with Willis and Cabrera.

I don’t think any NL teams will bid what the Sox will for Santana, and the Twins need to make the trade, so I don’t see any chance for Santana to go to the NL.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

mlbtraderumors.com UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 8:30am: The Yankees could’ve had Santana for Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Marquez, and Mitch Hilligoss. Brian Cashman, however, never wanted to sacrifice Hughes for Santana and convinced his bosses that the Yankees couldn’t afford him now that Andy Pettitte is in the fold. This near-trade won’t be forgotten by Yankees fans, unless Hughes takes off in ‘08.

Did I read that correctly ? The Yankees can’t afford Johan Santana and Andy Pettitte. Brian Cashman has either lost his mind , his wallet , or maybe both.

At any rate , twenty years from now when Santana is in the Hall of Fame and none of the other four mentioned players are not , Brian Cashman will be remembered much the way Bill DeWitt is today for trading Frank Robinson.

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Now , Braveheart. Please explain to us again your statement that Willie Harris had better numbers than David DeJesus.:)

Coach, in the words of Crash Davis, you’re hopeless. Utterly f#@#cking hopeless.

Marcus Giles, 2006: .262, .341, .387, 10 stolen bases.

David Dejesus, 2007: .260, .351, .372, 10 stolen bases.

Willie Harris, 2007: .270, .349, .392, 17 stolen bases.

Two of those guys were rightfully sent packing. But you want to trade an above-average pitcher for the third guy. Whatever.

Or, by your illogical definition:

Dejesus, 2007: 101 runs, 29 doubles, 8 triples, 7 homers, 58 rbis.

Yunel Escobar, 2007 54 runs, 25 doubles, 0 triples, 5 homers, 28 RBIs.

Guess in your mind that would have meant Dejesus had a better season than Yunel. That would make you dead wrong but you’ve never minded being dead wrong in the past.

By ssiscribe

December 5, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens, on this chilly morning along the southern rim of the capital city.

And frosty, too, is some of the discussion inside the esteemed Braves/MIB/BBQ/MusicduJour about yesterday’s trade, Willie Harris and Frank Wren.

So, since I have a passing minute or two …

— Yesterday’s trade: I don’t see the logic of those who don’t like this deal. The Braves have several hard-throwing kids for the bullpen, and they gave up just one to address two needs.

Granted, getting a utility player and a left-handed reliever may not generate the buzz of signing Tom Glavine. But championship-caliber teams HAVE TO HAVE a guy to plug in off the bench, a guy who is serviceable and can do the job. Infante is that guy. Granted, he may fall on his face like Chris Woodward, but Infante has a decent stick, a good glove, can play six positions (including shortstop, where the Braves have NO backup to Escobar) and gives you speed off the bench.

The Braves had to get another lefty in the pen, and a veteran arm to go with young Royce Ring if possible. They got that in Will Ohman, who was horrible in Wrigley and excellent everywhere else for the past couple of years. Dude will be a welcomed addition and will help bolster the pen.

So, at the top of the pen now you have Soriano as closer, Moylan as set-up guy, Ohman and Ring as your lefties. I would say Acosta as the fifth guy, and then a wide-open race for the final two spots. If Stockman and Boyer are healthy, I think they both have good shots to make the team. And, don’t forget Mike Gonzalez around the All-Star break.

I think Ascaino has the potential to be a very good major league pitcher, but you folks have to realize you have to give up something to get something. The Braves have Acosta, Stockman and Boyer, all who throw hard. You give up one player from a position of depth and strength and fill two needs … come on folks, what do you want? Willie Harris for A-Rod? Be realistic here.

— Speaking of the pride of Cairo: It was painful watching Willie in the final two months. His great catch against the Mets notwithstanding, he did nothing after his six-hit game against the Cardinals in late July. He played great in the first half and his story was awesome. Dude always dreamed of playing for the Braves, and once here, he made the most of it for three months.

But down the stretch, he was totally lost at the plate. He’s not a center fielder (not a viable option anyway, especially now with the Anderson kid on board and Schafer knocking on the door). Willie will get a chance to win a roster spot in spring if he doesn’t sign with somebody else before then, and I’d love for him to make the team.

But the Braves are better by having Willie in a part-time or bench role. I love his attitude and the way he plays the game, but he’s just not a 150-game guy who is going to put up consistent numbers. I wish he were, but he’s not.

— Frank Wren: Where in the world do some of you grasp this notion that Wren is struggling? So far, in a little less than two months, he’s added a solid veteran No. 3 left-handed starter to the rotation, he’s traded salary to give a young budding star a chance to play everyday (a deal that brought the Braves a No. 4-5 starter with tremendous upside AND a center field prospect that could be a starter by 2010 or a big pawn for trade), and the combination of a lefty veteran reliever and the utility guy the team needed for one reliever.

Um, I’d say Frank Wren is doing just fine so far. Fire Wren? What the hell are you smoking?

OK, back to it. The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Anders

December 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Flange1 The Mets over paid in the long run with Milledge because they needed a catcher now. It’s become absolutley apparent that they wanted nothing to do with Loduca going forward. Not sure if it was his game calling, injuries, declining bat, penchant for the ponies, issues with babes on the road, declining ability to throw out runners or what(all of the above was questioned at some point during last season) but something is going on there. Starting catchers were scarce as the fact that Irod and Posada were two of the first free agents signed attests. Minaya had to pull the trigger. According to him he first checked with the teams in play with big pitchers to see if Milledge was a desired part of any deal. Apparently they declined (they agree with many on here). He then went and made the best deal he could for a catcher and got a servicable right fielder in the process. I still think Milledge has a real good upside but this deal had to be made.

BTW- I’ll now add the Marlins to the list of east coast NL teams that will be running in ‘08 now that they don’t have to sit and wait for Cabrera to hit anymore.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Braveheart , yes , I was wrong about Thorman. But you , on the other hand are not man enough to admit your wrong.

You have your freaking head so far up your butt , it’s going to take a bottle of laxatives , some axle grease and a pry bar before you can see the light of day.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Anders, you bring up some excellent points about Santana and that is why I think he gets traded. He will demand to be traded and get an extension signed. I think the Red Sox will get it done. Honestly, the Twins would be silly to make Ellsbury the deal breaker. If Sox offered Crisp, Bucholz or Lester along with Lowire and Masterson, that is a “can’t refuse” offer. The Twins get their 2B of the future, a CF who will be a solid stopgap until Pirdie is ready, and a potential ace. That is a helluva deal. Cashman has convinced the Yanks brass that Hughes and Kennedy is too high of a price. I would say that is true if the Yanks were the Braves but they aren’t. They can buy pitchers almost at will. Cabrera, Hughes, and Kennedy for Santana is a fair offer. The Yanks will live to regret their decision.

Honestly, there is not another team who can offer anything close without giving away the farm. The Dodgers really don’t have the package. The Mets don’t (even though they think they do). The Angels do but have no reason to make the offer when they already have arguably the best rotation in baseball behind the Red Sox.

I am willing to bet by the time the meetings conclude tomorrow Santana will be a Red Sox and the Yankees will be wondering about how to spend their October next year since they won’t be playing baseball.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

But nice try, nOLIE. I’m sure you had some folks buying your uninformed spiel.

depends on what lists you look at Dave. Most of the ones that I see rate Lillibridge as the 5th or 6th best Braves prospect well behind Heyward who hasn’t even played above rookie league. thats a pretty rotten place to be for a guy in AAA. the latest list just posted here did not have Lilibridge in the top 50 in baseball. not Jones either. no other lists I’ve seen rated the non-Braves prospects anywhere near that low. I see your posts as being the big homer info dispenser, you obviously get off on being the guru and center of attention on this board. Like Bill Shanks you are a great dispenser of the Braves’ line and rightly so since that turns you on so much obviously. But your current response in way biased. MOST lists do not rate either Lillibridge or Jones as better than solid B or perhaps B+ prospects. Say what you want, thats the majority thinking, and it is not uninformed. Anybody that thinks Jones Lillibridge and Bennett is gonna bring us Haren or Santana is way out of touch with reality.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 5, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Anders Just to let you know, I try to give a very honest assessment of all the Braves AAA players that merit it and pass that information along to others on the blog. I will occasionally do the same for players from other minor league teams if they so impress me. Unfortunatly, the Mets moved their affiliate from Norfolk to New Orleans last season so I did not get to see any of the Met youngsters in 2007.

Any long time DOB/MIB reader will tell you that I was very surprised by the performance of Willie Harris last year after he was called up. I did not predict that one but I was not surprised when he came back to the pack towards the end of the season.

I did have higher expectations of Thorman but so did a lot of Braves’ evaluators which is why I guess the Braves are hanging onto him. They still expect him to show the ability they think he has.

As for the trade between the Nationals and the Mets. It was a good trade for both clubs. The Mets got some stability and a great defensive catcher in Schneider and Ryan Church is no slouch either. The Nationals can afford to take a chance on a kid like Milledge who has a high ceiling just like they did with Dukes. I think Manny Acta can apply pressure on these kids to perform and they have a role model in the Nat’s first baseman, Dmitri Young.

I also get the impression that Acta and Bowden are working the same plan where as Willie Randolph and the Mets’ GM are not exactly best buddies. There always seems to be some t** for tat going on between them. That is not an environment that breeds success.

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Braveheart , yes , I was wrong about Thorman. But you , on the other hand are not man enough to admit your wrong. You have your freaking head so far up your butt , it’s going to take a bottle of laxatives , some axle grease and a pry bar before you can see the light of day.

LOL! It’s fun arguing with Coach. We can take funny shots at each other without taking it personal. But I’m not wrong on this one. DeJesus has more potential and ability than Willie but …. I’m not gonna repeat it again and annoy everyone anymore about it.

But, here’s another one Coach:

Coco Crisp, 2007 .268, .330, .382, 28 stolen bases

David Dejesus, 2007: .260, .351, .372, 10 stolen bases

And everyone says Coco is garbage.

By KC

December 5, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

DAMN! That’s a pretty drastic offensive upgrade for Detroit, adding both M.Cabrera and Renteria!

By phiz50

December 5, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

SSISCRIBE:

Thanks for the sanity in the midst of so much foolishness. I could’t have said it as well as you but you summarized my thoughts on the Braves moves to this point. Frank Wren has been impressive!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 5, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

It’s no wonder that Kansas City wouldn’t even be tempted to trade DeJesus for Chuck James.

The guy reached base in 125 out of 157 games played. He scored 101 runs while batting lead off for one of the worst offenses in the majors. KC ranked 22nd out of 30 teams.

He struck out just 83 times in 605 at bats. Folks , that is some serious plate discipline.

DeJesus recorded 401 put outs with just 4 errors all season and 5 assists. That is outstanding defense.

It’s no surprise that KC has him under contract until 2011.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

OK, out of the annual BBWAA meeting now, folks. Can get to work.

Damian Miller — Braves are definitely high on him, not for his offense (obviously) but his veteran leadership/presence. Would be good influence on McCann, just in terms of a veteran catcher to talk to about the position.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Robert Up until yesterday I didn’t think the Red Sox really wanted Santana because they would then have to pay Beckett huge $’s too. (Lew - I know they have the cash but $45 mil for two pitchers is crazy). Anyway, with the Tigers deal I think the whole landscape changed and now the Red Sox need to muscle up again. It will be interesting to see Tommy Boy Steinbrenner’s response now. He has a ready made excuse to lift his moratorium on the Santana trade talks. The Yanks needed to reconsider because of the Tigers deal. I think if the Sox do get him the Yanks over pay for Haren. I’ll be suprised if the O’s trade Bedard in the division so I don’t see him going to the Yanks unless they really overpay for him (unlikely).

Long term downside for Braves fans in all this, the money saved by the Yanks on Santana will be available for Tex next year - plus Giambi and his $21 mil will be gone too. The question is if the Braves kept Salty and other prospects to this point could they have packaged him for Bedard or Haren this off season? Would that be more valuable long term versus a 1 1/2 year possible rental on Tex?

By Anders

December 5, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Damian Miller or as he’s known up here in NY “The Poor Man’s Brian Schneider”. Just kidding fellas - relax.

Hmmm… seems to be a shift towards defensive cathers going on here - wonder what’s up?

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Another veteran backup catcher the Braves have discussed: Sal Fasano.

Hey, just the messenger here.

But I hear he is a great clubhouse guy, tough as nails, etc.

SCRIBE, fine post, sir.

By N8

December 5, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

I’ve stated my initial “dislike” (for lack of a better word), for the trade. But that has subsided a little bit, knowing that Ohman is a power pitcher from the left side.

I hope to god, that Wrigley is what messed this guy up for the last three years. If not, it will have been a bad trade. Of course it also depends on how Ascanio does next year in Chicago. If that kid turns into a stud, I’ll be very disappointed.

THAT being said, it’s a little early (don’t you think?) to call Wren the wors GM in MLB?

As I said yesterday, this trade may work out just fine for us (short term and longterm), because if Ohman does end up being OK, a lefty specialist can last a while in this league, so him being 30 doesn’t bother me (as much as it did initially).

I’m disregarding the backup middle infielder, because for whatever reason, I believe Aybar is gonna play (and play well), next year. So that portion of the trade is gonna wind up being nothing more than insurance for if Aybar falters, IMO.

DOB

You said yesterday that the “other” bench player would now NOT have to be an infielder. Do you think Brayan Pena is on the radar for that other spot? Or are they gonna look for a guy with a track record of coming of the bench in a PH role?

Not sure what my man-crush on Brayan Pena is, but for whatever reason, I think he could be a big part of this team filling MANY roles. Plus we all know how gun-shy Bobby is about PR for McCann in a close situation (as to not risk having 2 catchers injured in a game), so to have an ACTUAL catcher on the team as the emergency catcher (in the event that Miller is signed), seems to make sense to me.

In fact, if it were me and Pena can play 1B at all, I’d keep him as Tex’s backup (since you’ve stated that Tex won’t take many days off - barring injury). Switch hitter (and a pretty good hitter at that), that plays multiple positions, including catcher. I see NO REASON why this guy shouldn’t end up on our bench.

By flylikeeagle05

December 5, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Hi DOB, when do you assume to type in a new blog? This blog has gotten so long lol and it takes a while to load it all up for me to read it. Thanks for all you do for all the updates, etc. Enjoy your time.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

December 5, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

DOB

Do the Braves see Devine and Yates starting in the Pen this year. And if not won’t they have to be traded or DFA’d?

Just wondering.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

joebrave your 12am post was completely erroneous. anyone proposing that lillibridge plays CF has much more credibility than you after that.

uga brave you said if the phils resign rowand they have the best offense in the league? im not sure if i agree. it certainly is a good one, though. i really think that the braves lineup is comparable.

By SNIPER-69

December 5, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Don’t look now but the Twins have asked the METS and a few other teams to revisit trade talks. (See mlbtraderumors.com). The METS may still end up with Santana. That would send some shivers down the brave fans (But they won’t admit it)

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Minor League Baseball.com’s very own top 50 prospects list. Oh my, where are Lillibridge and Jones? Gee I must be going blind I can’t find them at all. Bet very few of these guys are ranked 4th-6th in their own organizations behind some phenom with 43 Rookie league at bats, either. Oh, of course, they must be horribly misinformed and surely fear the wrath of DOB. ;) * 1. Jay Bruce

* 2. Evan Longoria

* 3. Cameron Maybin

* 4. Clayton Kershaw

* 5. Joba Chamberlain

* 6. Clay Buchholz

* 7. Colby Rasmus

* 8. Andrew McCutchen

* 9. Homer Bailey

* 10. Adam Miller



* 11. David Price

* 12. Wade Davis

* 13. Jacoby Ellsbury

* 14. Rick Porcello

* 15. Travis Snider

* 16. Franklin Morales

* 17. Fernando Martinez

* 18. Nick Adenhart

* 19. Brandon Wood

* 20. Jacob McGee



* 21. Matt Wieters

* 22. Mike Moustakas

* 23. Carlos Gonzalez

* 24. Gio Gonzalez

* 25. Eric Hurley

* 26. Ian Kennedy

* 27. Matt Antonelli

* 28. Carlos Carrasco

* 29. Chase Headley

* 30. Josh Vitters



* 31. Chris Marrero

* 32. Reid Brignac

* 33. Andy LaRoche

* 34. Joey Votto

* 35. Max Scherzer

* 36. Scott Elbert

* 37. Ross Detwiler

* 38. Elvis Andrus

* 39. Chris Volstad

* 40. Luke Hochevar



* 41. Ian Stewart

* 42. Alcides Escobar

* 43. Jeremy Jeffress

* 44. Tyler Colvin

* 45. Radhames Liz

* 46. Jeff Clement

* 47. Johnny Cueto

* 48. Carlos Triunfel

* 49. Austin Jackson

* 50. Dexter Fowler

By Anders

December 5, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

DOB Miller vs. Fasano . Not sure how far Miller’s game has fallen but having him on the bench can’t help but be a positive for McCann. Fasano played with the Phillies and Yanks recently. Cult type guy for his foo man choo [sp]. Old time look. But man - he has no game left at all. Good enough guy but he doesn’t have Millers track record (WS winning catcher)to be taken seriously by McCann which I’m thinking is a big part of the Braves consideration. Defensive catchers are like goalies in hockey. You take them for granted all season but you need a real good one in the post season.

By flange1

December 5, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

N8,

In terms of the other bench player, remember that the Braves are not sold on Aybar playing SS. Infante will be the SS backup.

I am seeing that the bench will be 1. Infante 2. Diaz/B.Jones 3. Catcher backup 4. Aybar? 5. Thorman?

That assumes that they keep only one from the group of Anderson, Blanco and Schaffer to play CF.

I think Aybar will make the team, but I wonder about Thorman.

By Overlord

December 5, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the comments, ill check on the stories.

I think what happened to hampton was good for him, he will put more attention to his rehab (just my opinion). This guy will be back and will help the braves, just another setback, but he will do what he needs to do. GOOOO MIKE!!!!!

By ppaddy123

December 5, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Morning all…………been out of the loop for about 16 hrs. Been reading last nights posts to catch up. What the heck happened? What’s up with all the name calling and mud slinging? I had to double check to make sure an unmentionable few hadn’t made their way back to the blog! I didn’t find any mention of shoe size, so I guess not.

So…..what’s next for the Braves? What will Wren do next? Anxious and disturbed and inquiring minds alike are eagerly awaiting his next move. C

By DonCoburleone

December 5, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Check out this article on this past season’s most “inconsistent” offenses…. I thought for sure the Braves would be right near the top, but Alas, they are actually right in the middle… In fact, they are in the top 40% of the MOST consistent offenses in 2007, HUH?

Inconsistent Offenses

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Anders, I … a … agr … OK, I’ll say it. I agree. (On the backup catchers).

Now there. Can’t say I only pick out your asinine posts to respond to.

By DonCoburleone

December 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

By David O’Brien

December 4, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

We’ll get another blog up tomorrow, folks. This one’s filled up pretty quick. Lots of good debate and banter.

It can’t come soon enough DOB, my computer is on the verge of exploding every time I post something…

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

(just kidding with you, Anders. Just busting chops.)

nOLIE, on the other hand… You’re sure getting a helluva lot of mileage out of that top 50 list, aren you? Whatever, man. I made my point. Agree or disagree, your prerogative.

By the way, Escobar would be on that top 50 prospect list if he hadn’t already become a player, rather than a prospect.

And the Braves have several players (McCann, Francoeur) who are actually as young (23) as many guys on those prospect lists. They’ve got a very young team.

And their top prospects are generally in the lower levels of the minors. Most people, when ranking prospects, consider how close to the majors a player is. That’s generally part of the criteria for such rankings.

When a kid’s in A-ball, hasn’t played any higher, many will not consider him a top-10 type of prospect in terms of ranking overall prospects in baseball.

By schoolingthem

December 5, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hey, Willie I told you earlier when they let Andrew go for Tom “old guy”Glavine, to watch your back. The Braves are Jim Crow Jr. of the 2000s. Lists goes on and keep going: Marques, Dave Justice, Dion, Kenny Lofton, Kid now in Chicago that has won a title, Andrew etc., you get the point and now you Willie, good luck, now go win you a title.

By DonCoburleone

December 5, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Scratch what I said about the Braves being in the top 40% of the MOST consistent offenses, they were actually the 12th LEAST consistent offense in baseball last year… That sounds closer to the truth to me…

By uga-brave

December 5, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

dap,

the difference is jimmy rollins, and their better team speed. victorino is a guy if you let him play every day, would probably steal 50 bases.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Toronto is offering Rios for Cain or Lincecum of SF. Christ, more top shelf pitching to the AL.

We may have our first All Star game no hitter this July!

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

THAT being said, it’s a little early (don’t you think?) to call Wren the wors GM in MLB?

Um, I’d say Frank Wren is doing just fine so far. Fire Wren? What the hell are you smoking?

N8 & Scribe, I completely agree with you. Although I have been critical of the Edgar trade for example, I aim that criticism at the owners.

Although, for me, it is fine to criticize the owners for trades like that, I believe it is dumb to criticize Wren for making those deals. Wren can only do the best he can under the financial circumstances he is operating in. SO, I am angry at the owners for the Edgar trade but happy with Wren for what he got back in the Edgar trade.

By Randy

December 5, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

If Toronto is seriously considering trading Alex Rios to SanFrancisco for pitching, I would like to see Atlanta offer a package of players for Alex. He could become our centerfielder and I believe he is signed for three more years.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

joebrave: Not revolve round the Vols,man the whole damn State is crying

This is one thing that always amazed me while in Tennessee. The whole state lives and dies with the Vols. On game day everyone is wearing orange and white. It’s pretty cool. 110,000 people in the stadium, several million others all glued to the action. I enjoyed it. But, the Vols lost. We’ll gittum next year.

DeJesus 2007 OPS+: 89
Harris 2007 OPS+: 94

Not saying Willie should still be on the team. His career OPS+ is horrid. His career in general is horrid. 2007 could be painted as Willie’s “Break Out Year” as he has never performed anywhere close to this good. To bad the Angles and Dodgers are all locked up with Pierre and MattHGHews otherwise Willie might have been able to work this “break out” season into a 10 million a year deal.

DeJesus’ 2007 season could be termed his worst season because, in all honesty, it was. He was out played by Willie Harris for crying out loud. Though, both of these guys were still better than Juan Pierre. That guy just blows.

By ppaddy123

December 5, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

schoolingthem I heard the Braves were going to petition MLB to change their team name to “The White Knights.” Have you heard that too?

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, the point is, Harris was TERRIBLE after June 27, and very good before it. If his final numbers had been at all indicative of his performance for the second half of the season, he’d have been fine. They weren’t.

He had the best near-half-season of his life, then reverted to basically the player he’s been his entire career. So you going to say those two months (May and June) were the new Harris, or you going to judge him based on basically the rest of his entire career, including the last three months of this season?

Come on, he was really, really bad after late June, and that’s even including the five-hit, six-RBI game.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB Have you asked Wren how comfortable he is with Soriano as the closer for next year? I realize he’s got good stuff but as you know, closing isn’t always about stuff.(See Benitez A.) Having only 13 career saves and 9 career blown saves to go along with it - is there a backup plan if this guy doesn’t cut it? I realize the Braves veteran starters are real pros but even those type of guys get frustrated if your closer doesn’t do the job regularly. I can’t imagine he wants to be shopping for a closer in July again? Should they be looking at Nathan?

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

The Braves are Jim Crow Jr. of the 2000s. Lists goes on and keep going: Marques, Dave Justice, Dion, Kenny Lofton, Kid now in Chicago that has won a title, Andrew etc., you get the point and now you Willie, good luck, now go win you a title.

If you are gonna recklessly throw around racist accusations …. presumably because you love those players so much …. can you at the very least spell their names right?

Chrissakes, kid from Chicago? Do you not even know the kid’s name. It is Jermaine Dye.

It is Marquis Grissom, not Marques. Or were you referencing Jason Marquis being sent packing? Still Marquis for him as well, not Marques. He’s white BTW and Cox and Mazzone could not stand him and sent him out of town as fast as they could.

It is Andruw Jones, not Andrew Jones.

And worst of all, it is Deion, not Dion. How could you get that one wrong? It’s not like he’s one of the most famous legendary superstar athletes of the past quarter century or anything, right?

Or were you pining away for the days of Dion James who had a very fine season for the Braves in freaking 1987, 20 freaking years ago? Yeah, how could they have let that old Dion James get away in 1989? They could have won a whole mess of division titles and maybe a world series if they held on to Dion James.

By wjones

December 5, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

*By schoolingthem

December 5, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hey, Willie I told you earlier when they let Andrew go for Tom “old guy”Glavine, to watch your back. The Braves are Jim Crow Jr. of the 2000s. Lists goes on and keep going: Marques, Dave Justice, Dion, Kenny Lofton, Kid now in Chicago that has won a title, Andrew etc., you get the point and now you Willie, good luck, now go win you a title.*

Hey, Terrence, it’s sure nice of you to visit Dave’s blog! And the guy from Chicago was Jermaine Dye, and one of his teamates was Willie Harris, so he does have a ring.

BTW, we couldn’t have gotten rid of Lofton without acquiring him first; that did cost us Grissom and Justice. Dye was traded for Michael Tucker, who also is black. Deion Sanders (correct spelling,FYI) was traded for Roberto Kelly, also black. Who’s our hitting coach now, BTW? But please don’t let facts get in the way of a good argument, though.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

So, DOB, any news or rumors. Seems awfully quiet the last 16 or so hours. Is Wren going to enjoy the free cheese and crackers, hobnob a little and then head her back to Atlanta or are any deals in the works.

By Jon

December 5, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Randy, we don’t need someone for 3 more years. We just need a stop gap for this year until Schafer is ready in ‘09. So who do you propose we trade in order to get someone we do not need? Which players would we throw away?

By N8

December 5, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Flange1

“I think Aybar will make the team, but I wonder about Thorman.”

I totally agree. I would trade Thorman and keep Pena (like I said before, if Pena can play 1B), because I think:

A) we can get more for Thorman

and

B) get more use out of Pena

Of course, that leaves our bench fairly “powerless”. But who cares? I’d rather have a bench of players that can actually HIT, than hackers. That might limit our opportunities to hit a PH 3-run HR to comeback in a game, but with a bench of good hitters, over the course of a 162 game season, it would benefit us more, IMO.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

That Rios for Lincecum trade isnt’ going to happen. The Blue Jays won’t add a pitcher to the deal. It looks like they want a straight up deal.

I can’t really see the Braves making an offer for him simply because the Jays would want too much. I would imagine they would demand Reyes or Jurries (maybe James), Lillibridge, and K. Johnson. I suppose the Braves could offer B. Jones, James, and one of Prado, Devine, or B. Pena but I don’t see the Jays biting on it.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

very interesting list about the consistent offenses. i wish the braves were a little higher than the priates and the giants, but i guess they didnt say consistently GOOD, did they? :-)

i still think it would be a great idea to upgrade left field, so we can still have a powerful offense with a defense-first player in CF. Rios would be awesome on the braves, and i really like jason bay as well. he seems like a braves kind of guy.

however, what do you guys think of jeremy hermida of the marlins? they might not be wanting to trade more hitters after losing cabrera, but they will need a third baseman. see if they want martin prado and a reliever for hermida. then we can still have diaz as right handed outfielder and keep b. jones at AAA, or trade him. of course, b. jones could be our left fielding slugger this year, who knows?

i still think diaz, sammons or pena, and one of james/jojo/bennet to the blue jays for rios would be SWEET! might they want more? it would be sapping their outfield power. nice to dream anyways.

By N8

December 5, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Well said at 12:43 Braveheart

I was gonna be ALL OVER THAT as well. But nobody wants another epic post from me, LOL!

Took the words right out of my mouth, beat me to the punch, and any other cliche’ you might wanna use.

Well done.

By Jon

December 5, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, I was just looking at Ohman’s game log and I noticed he only pitched in 2 games in the Month of August. Was he injured or did he just get into Lou’s Doghouse? Also, the guy had 0 blown saves and 12 holds in 36.1 innings. ERA for relievers is a bad stat to go by. IMHO.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

uga brave youre absolutely right about that. i forgot about what an offensive weapon victorino is. i suppose my thinking was that the braves offensive seems so much more balanced, with no huge drop-off at any position…(except CF which remains to be seen) the phils however have no one at catcher or 3b thats does much. i really think that since they have werth, it wont hurt them much at all to lose rowand. and outfield of burrel, victorino and werth left to right is still pretty good.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Can all the accusations about the Braves being racist just stop? They are so asinine. I mean for the love of God Bobby Cox’s successor is black. Ever heard of Terry Pendleton. The Braves are all but ready to hand LF to a guy named Brandon Jones, who is black. And believe me if they can do it without giving up the farm a guy by the name of Chione Figgins would be a Brave by the end of business tomorrow. Figgins is…………….BLACK!

Do people not have anything else to do with their time?

By adolf oliver knipples

December 5, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

How about letting McCann tutor a rookie catcher with promise, rather than letting a geriatric, lovable loser tutor McCann?

Just a thought.

By roan st

December 5, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

DOB and others, I looked at scouting book.coms top 100 propect list and they are very high on braves players. Unlike most services they look at players in the lower classifications as well as higher minor league ball. They definately had an interesting take on braves prospects, heres the list:

21- jason heyward ( they think he was the steal of the draft)

37- brandon jones ( they are really high on jones and think he is the left fielder of the future).

58- josh anderson ( this one shocked me- but who knows)

61- jordan schafer ( they were impressed by his fall league performance but want to see more)

71- brent lillibrige ( if kelly johnson stumbles he will be waiting in the wings)

75 joey devine ( can’t really remember exactly what they said about him)

nOLIE, you are basing your assesment of braves prospects based on one services rankings. There are at least a half dozen or more services that rank prospects and most of them haven’t released their 2008 list. Guys like schafer will undoubtedly shoot up most list from where he was on 2007 list. Besides many times these ranking surveys are way off anyways. None of them had yunel escobar as a top 50 proespect heading into 2007 and now he is the braves starting shortstop and possible future star.

By Randy

December 5, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Alex Rios could move to left when and if Schafer is ready. I would offer Toronto any of our starters other than the top three along with one of our “future” centerfielders in our farm system and I would listen if they wanted more than that. Alex would be a great fit. What do you think DOB?

By DonCoburleone

December 5, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

“schoolingthem I heard the Braves were going to petition MLB to change their team name to “The White Knights.” Have you heard that too?”

Come on guys, maybe you’ve heard of Brandon Jones? He has taken over the role of “token” on the Braves…

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, on the other hand… You’re sure getting a helluva lot of mileage out of that top 50 list, aren you? Whatever, man. I made my point. Agree or disagree, your prerogativeDOB

I’m not sure what your point was other than to attack what I was saying and I’m afraid that you did not make the point that I am uninformed about what I was posting about. I’m sure that I can find other ratings that list them as B or B+ level prospects too. .Its not the only list around that rates those two guys lower than the unBraves I was referring to in the posts. And yes those guys that you mentioned would likely be on that list but they are no longer prospects except perhaps for Yunel and i never said anything negative about him, but the gist of the posts was players(mostly prospects) being offered for Haren/Sanrana/Bedard and none of those guys are being put forward as trade bait from our side, as indeed they probably shouldn’t be. I don’t know what occasioned your tone in your reply and the accusation of being misinformed but it ain’t true.I was not dissing the Braves minors overall, just pointing out that other teams are offering a mix of prospects that are higher rated than most of what the posters here were mentioning.

By Luther

December 5, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Hey Andruw only played 10 years here, was always mentioned as watching Curracao in the little league world series if you watched Braves games, or mentioned by every player on Curracao’s team as their favorite player if you watched the little league world series. And you still do not realize that Andruw Jones is not African-American? You would probably be mad if we signed Grady Sizemore because all you are going on is appearance.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

heck out this article on this past season’s most “inconsistent” offenses…. I thought for sure the Braves would be right near the top, but Alas, they are actually right in the middle… In fact, they are in the top 40% of the MOST consistent offenses in 2007, HUH?DC

yeah I read that a day or so ago and was a little surprised that the Braves weren’t ranked higher in the most inconsistant catagory. Perhaps it seemed that way so much cause they so often seemed to loose the lowscoring games right after they blew the other guys out in the previous game. Might not have seemed as bad if the had won more of those lowscoring nextday games?

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

When a kid’s in A-ball, hasn’t played any higher, many will not consider him a top-10 type of prospect in terms of ranking overall prospects in baseball.DOB

yes I realize that which is why I made the point that Heyward with his mere 43 RL ABs is rated higher already than either BL or BJ. Pretty unusual.

By RC

December 5, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I think people looking for a Rios trade are not looking at the entire situation. First off, he made $2.5 mil last year in what would have been his FIRST year of arbitration….that number will jump a lot this year and next, and then he’s out of the team’s control. Do you really want to trade away 2 or 3 team controlled players for another “rent-a-player”? Secondly, the players I’ve heard suggested we send for him just aren’t going to do it. Lincecum was being suggested because he’s projected as an MLB #1, and is still under team control for 5+ years. The situation with Rios is very similar to the one that Texas was in last year with Texeria, and you see what he brought. I don’t think Rios gets quite as big of a package of players and Tex brought, but I could see him bringing 1 blue chip guy and 2-3 future MLB starters.

By Lew

December 5, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Sniper69-You are delusional in the extreme if you truly believe that the Mets can possibly compete with any offer the Red Sox or Yankees might make-or the Angels or Braves (if they desired to do so and were willing to pay the salary for several years) could make, for that matter. Get over yourself. Come back in a few years when the Mets have enough minor league prospects they can actually afford to give up. Even Omar acknowledges the long term harm. Giving any up at this point would likely cripple the Mets for years. Have you perhaps noticed the age of your team? Have you noticed just how few MLB ready farm hands you really have? Omar has. Have you perhaps noticed that Lastings Milledge has already been traded-your ONE big trade piece that they couldn’t wait to dump?

Anders-$45 million is, indeed, a whole lot of $$$$ for two pitchers. However, when the Red Sox signed Dice K, they knocked his entire $100 mil negotiation price AND his full salary off the books with ONE T Shirt deal. They are a true merchandising monster and have a six state captive audience, so rooted in baseball history that they still accept the Braves as a Boston team. I don’t see them as being worried in the least-especially since it would make them favorites for at least the next several years, to win the World Series, thereby making them an additional fortune or two, or three. I sure as hell wouldn’t bet against those World Series, either with Santan AND Beckett in the rotation. Also, they will lose Schilling’s $8 mil after this season.

Now Willie Harris-Y’all he was a .231 hitter going into last season. Subtract his awesome May, until JUne 27 and he was STILL a .231 hitter. He had a great stretch of almost two months-for a seven year career. This should be a real easy one to get over. Really. It should take little to no effort.

By Lew

December 5, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Nolie-What you say may be true, but two things- First, I’m not quite sure how much stock to put in those lists to begin with-too much chance and margin for error for deviation. Second-All I’ve heard is that the Braves were not seeking additional starting pitching. We aren’t actually offering anyone, so what does it matter if they are offering better packages?

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

DOB: I don’t disagree with that at all. I’m not sad to see Willie go. His game is not what I want out in CF.

That post was more in reference to the DeJesus/Harris Braveheart/Coach Debate/Conflict Blog post/Conversation (what more can I “slash”/”juxtapose”? Booyah!). Nothing more than that.

Simply put, I wouldn’t trade James for DeJesus. I think James in the rotation has more value for the Braves than DeJesus in center w/o James in the rotation would bring. If there were a way to keep both, maybe by trading some lesser parts of some sort, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. DeJesus has a better career track record than Willie by far. Last season, as lopsided as the halves were, was his best season. That’s more of a testimate to how poor of a “poor man’s center fielder” he is.

And some of that was a jab at the Dodgers and Angels because, well, they’re easy targets.

By Greg O.

December 5, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Jon, I’m pretty certain that Ohman was in Piniella’s doghouse. In any event, I can say with complete certainty that from August 14-29, Ohman made nine appearances at AAA-Iowa. He had no record in 6.2 innings pitched, 2.70 ERA, 7 H, 2 ER, 9 K, 5 BB. Ohman’s MiLB.com page

By DAP

December 5, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

RC Do you really want to trade away 2 or 3 team controlled players for another “rent-a-player”?

my answer to you is YES! but i disagree with your definition of a rent-a-player. getting a guy you still control for three years is not renting him. if you get a guy after the all-start break that is about to be a free agent, thats what i call renting him.

also, id like to tell you that most players proposed to trade for rios are guys that dont or will not play a major role for the braves next season, and maybe not even beyond that.

i think getting rios would definetly be worth losing ONE of our young starters(james, jojo, bennet, jurjens), prado, diaz and/or b. jones, anderson and/or blanco, sammons and/or pena, lillibridge, or some bullpen guys like devine, boyer, yates, stockman…

obvously not ALL of these guys, but i think you can pick and choose from that group of players, find a package that intrests the jays, and get an awesome outfielder that can play all three positions without hurting your teams, because every single player i mentioned except james is either a minor piece, or they arent a piece at all. the braves have alot of players that could be starting on other teams.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

I would imagine they would demand Reyes or Jurries

Jurries for Rios. What’s the hang up? I’d think Wren would see the benefit of that deal.

Is Jurries even still in the system? Seems I only hear about him when Jurrjens’ name is mispelled.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

21- jason heyward ( they think he was the steal of the draft)

37- brandon jones ( they are really high on jones and think he is the left fielder of the future).

58- josh anderson ( this one shocked me- but who knows)

61- jordan schafer ( they were impressed by his fall league performance but want to see more)

71- brent lillibrige ( if kelly johnson stumbles he will be waiting in the wings)

75 joey devine ( can’t really remember exactly what they said about him)

nOLIE, you are basing your assesment of braves prospects based on one services rankings. There are at least a half dozen or more services that rank prospects and most of them haven’t released their 2008 list.

no I’m not. there are others already out that list much the same way. and anyhow the list that you just posted says exactly the same thing that I said about those players. Heyward with his 43 ABs is the top rated player. Do you know how unusual it is for a phenom with 43 rookie league atbats to be an orgs top rated player? Then comes Jones at what mid to high 30s. again as I said a B+ rated guy who is not as good as many who were being named in trade rumors. Then Lillibridge all the way down in 70 something. Exactly as I said. You are misreading the posts if you think I am throwing a blanket indictment over the entire Braves minor leagues. I even said that Jones & Lillibridge(I keep wanting to type Lilliquist)were solid prospects. I think that the Braves have done an amazing job keeping the minors in such good shape with 14 straight years of low picks. And I’m highly pleased with all the youngsters like Frenchy,McCann,Yunel etc that they currently have on the team. Its hard to think of another team that has so many homegrown players with that degree of talent on their roster, But that doesn’t mean that Lillibridge is a baseball leading prospect at this time. I also allowed as to how all these guys might change as they develop in the majors, and the ones currently rated lower could end up being the better players over their careers. I really don’t see how I could have been more evenhanded.

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Jon, just in Lou’s doghouse, is my understanding.

By Braveheart

December 5, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

in reference to the DeJesus/Harris Braveheart/Coach Debate/Conflict Blog post/Conversation (what more can I “slash”/”juxtapose”? Booyah!).

10Paul That was funny! I don’t think that either Coach or I are Booyah types however. We are more the Ray Romano types to say Sweet Sassy Molassey!

As the ole SNL skit making fun of Stuart Scott went: I went Happy-Go-Jackie on the big white guy from the Dakotas like a donkey eating a waffle! Sweet Sassy Molassey! Get out the checkbook and pay grandma for the rubdown.

In action late last night, Sonics vs. Utah, John Stockton says, “Hey, look at me - I’m a little teapot, I’ll run right up your dress!” But then, Olden Polynice says, “I’m not gonna pay a lot for this muffler!” But then Karl Malone says, “Sweet Sassy Molassey! You are gonna pay a lot! And the cost is gonna be prohibitive!” Jazz wins, 99-93! Stu-pot!

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Nolie-What you say may be true, but two things- First, I’m not quite sure how much stock to put in those lists to begin with-too much chance and margin for error for deviation. Second-All I’ve heard is that the Braves were not seeking additional starting pitching. We aren’t actually offering anyone, so what does it matter if they are offering better packages?Lew

I was simply replying to posts from a coupla different guys that a package of 3 like James, Lillibridge & Bennett stacked up to offers by the Yanks or Sox and should guarantee getting Haren from Billy.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

One thing about Willie, his speed is his down fall. Teams through him into the line up and find he can fly and move him up to the top and he flops. Next place he goes he should demand to never be put in the #1 spot in the order. For his career he has a greater chance of success from the 2 hole.

That said I’m glad he’s gone. Watching Willie bat second would kill me.

By Anders

December 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Lew For what it’s worth John Heyman of SI.com just reported on WFAN in NY that the Mets are indeed back in the Santana sweepstakes and that Reyes is absolutely not part of the discussion. He said the Twins are being underwhelmed by the Red Sox and while the Mets have nothing equivalent to Lester the Mets # 2, 3 and 4 guys in the deal are all better than what the Twins are presently looking at. Heyman’s words - not mine so don’t crucify me -please. I’m as suprised as you. BTW- Fernando Martinez was not part of the discussion - yet. Perhaps that’s the part that tilts the deal? You have to think the Twins wouldn’t mind sending Santana out of the league if they could. He still gives the Red Sox the lead however.Stay tuned.

By Kevin C

December 5, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do the Braves have any interest in Lincecum? What would the Giants want for him? Just curious thanks

By BosnianBaller

December 5, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Any chance of trading Kelly Johnson and some prospects for Blanton or Haren and then sign eckstein to play second and hit leadoff.

The chances of the trade above is slim,but the Braves still don’t have a leadoff hitter.The last true leadoff hitter was Furcal.

By Jon

December 5, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Yeah Greg and DOB, I was about to answer my own question, lol. It turns out Greg was right, Ohman was optioned back to Iowa on August 7th and brought back up on September 1st. Hence the low number of appearances in August. And, the numbers were not good against our two main rivals in those 2 games. August 2nd he gave up 3 earned runs against the Phillies in 1 inning, and August 5th, gave up 2 runs against the Mets while only recording 1 out. OUCH! No wonder he got sent down.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Alex Rios for James? I’d have absolutely no problem with that.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Hmmm.From MLB.com Kaz & Rico to Mets??? NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Looking to bolster an aging pitching staff, the New York Mets acquired pitcher Scott Kazmir and outfielder Rocco Baldelli in exchange for pitchers, Mike Pelfrey and Joe Smith, recently acquired outfielder, Ryan Church, and two minor leaguers. Kazmir, a former Mets phenom, returns to NewYork after being dealt to Tampa Bay during the 2003 season.Though neither the Mets nor Rays officials were commenting on the seven-player deal, a Rays official confirmed an agreement was in place. The Mets have scheduled a press conference for 4 P.M. Mets; GM Omar Minaya was not available for comment.

By nOLIE

December 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

here’s the Kaz link. good job by somebody huh?

By ppaddy123

December 5, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone 1:107PM My “White Knights” comment was directed at schoolingthem as a joke because #1 the guy can’t spell and #2 he can’t even remember the names of “all the black dudes the Braves have done wrong.”

You know, opinions are like a***** () we’ve all got one. I think Terence Moore spends too much time with the race issue, but it’s what he does on the AJC. He hangs his hat on racial commentary. I have tried to re-think my opinion on his comments. I do think he was full of crap on the Barry Bonds issue during the home run chase, but his comments on race in baseball should make us all wonder what has happened. It is not a conspiracy by Major League Baseball. It should be a concern to MLB because of the shrinking fan base in the black community. Furthermore, it is a double edged sword. As fewer black players are seen in MLB, fewer black kids will want to play. And the cycle continues…. so I now understand when Terence Moore says the Braves need more black players. Atlanta Georgia has “lots of black folks” that don’t tune in and don’t go to games because there’s nobody for them to “relate” to. I get it. But on the flip side, Terence Moore needs to encourage members of the black community to take a more active role. From purely a fan’s perspective, I think the Braves try to put the best team on the field, regardless of race. That being said, the fan base for the Braves is primarily “white guys” such as myself, living in a 250 mile radius, give or take, from Atlanta. If the Braves had more black players, would more African Americans attend home games? Personally….I don’t think they would….and that’s what opinions () are all about.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Ryan Church is starting to feel a bit like Mike Piazza.

By Braves4Ever

December 5, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

That is a GOOD deal for the Mets. Significantly improves their pitching. Baldelli will help too if he stays healthy,(????)

By CC Rider

December 5, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Lew: I’m sorry I took so long to respond, had a doc appt. Regarding the awful trade you feel I mentioned. Let’s LOOK at what No.1 Starters are going for. Now Lincecum is not yet a No.1 but most seeem to think he will be barring injury. The cost for a top starter is costing top minor or major league talent. The players I mentioned are all blocked or soon will be by other players B. Jones/By J.Heyward, G. Hernandez/BY Jordan Schafer, Lilibridge or K. Johnson by which ever one the Braves feel best about( I personally favor the defense, basestealing and potential of Lillibridge due to the dropoff of K.J. the last 2 months of the season), but that is the decision the Braves must make. We don’t know where the Braves figure on Chuck James, but indications are he has dropped in the pecking order behind Reyes and Jurjjens. It IS alot to give up for one player, but all of these players will probably end up being used in trades later if the players ahead of them produce as expected. They become our 2nd tier prospects!!! I repeat if the Braves determine Lincecum is a potential NO.1 and Lincecum has 5 years before free agency show me a Cheap No.1 that can be had for 4 second tier Prospects. Pitching is the most needed commodity in baseball as the frenzy for Santana, Haren, Bedard, Blanton is proving and if the Braves feel Lincecum is a No.1 one this deal would be a bargin.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Interesting little item today by Tim Tucker on the new “premium” seating being constructed at Turner Field. At $300 per seat. Wow… I didn’t realize what a bargain I was getting in Richmond at $10 for equivalent seat. Okay, I don’t get all I can eat but I can afford to send out if need be. Come to think of it, I have never starved at a Richmond game. I realize I have to walk about 200 feet from my parking section but could afford a limo to pick me up and drop me off. Who makes all that much money to afford those seats? They selling dope or what?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this, folks but that is one helluva good deal for the Mets. The Mets get their bonafide ace in Kamir. In Baldelli they get a really good player. If he stays healthy, he makes that offense a beast.

The Mets lobbed a huge grenade. Will the Phils and Braves answer. I still think the Braves rotation of: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton/James/Jurrjens/Reyes is better than the Mets roation of Kazmir, Pedro, Maine, El Duque, and Humber/Silva?. However, the addition of Baldelli is an upgrade in right field.

Now, I have to say from the Rays’ perspective I’m not sure if this deal makes a lot of sense. I guess it could be said that Church has a better health history than Baldelli but he is not a better player. Pelfrey is not nor will ever be a top of the rotation guy and I think Joe Smith could be a one year wonder.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

the mets just got alot better!!! the trade just doesnt seem to make sense for the rays! i know the braves could have done better than that for kazmir! i am extremely surprised. great move by minaya.

By Cooper S

December 5, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Nice try on the Kazmir rumor. That’s a fake website.

By TennesseePaul

December 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Can’t find anything to back up that Kazmir Reference. I’ll be interested to know if it’s true.

One general manager said he’s under the belief that the Gold Glove center fielder’s agent, Scott Boras, is still seeking a five-year, $100 million deal.
—Mark Bowman

By Jon

December 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

**Yeah nOLIE, good attempt there, too bad its fake. I mean, come on, anyone can view the page source of something, oh lets say, the one you copied which was “The Tigers and Marlins have reached preliminary agreement on an eight-player trade that will send Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a package of six players” And change the main body of text, then send the link as if it were true.

Nice attempt, too bad the website it called www.macsmets.com/mlb**

By Efrim

December 5, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Folks

It is a fake web site. Don’t you think that trade would of been EVERYWHERE?!?!?

By Jon

December 5, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

nOLIE, you should have changed the Time and Date as well to make it more believable.

Nice try though.

By Thrillhouse44

December 5, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Good call Cooper S! They had me going on that one! I’m in a much better mood now that you sniffed that one out.

By Braves4Ever

December 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

I hope it is BOGUS. Omar has been a waste, this would redeem him, maybe save his job.

By SlipperyWilson

December 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

I was thrilled to see the blog from the person who remarked “Can’t the Braves find one African-American player to play baseball?” It really makes you wonder after the release of Willie Harris what the Braves are thinking. Maybe they feel as though having a black on the team will make the team “dirty” or “soiled” so in order to “cleanse” the team so to speak, it was time to ship out Edgar Renteria, Andrew Jones and Willie Harris all of whom are black, rid your team of all black ballplayers which leaves you with an ALL-WHITE ballclub which is what the management wanted in the first place. My personal feeling is that I would still buy SEASON TICKETS NO LESS to watch the Braves if the Braves were to go out and sign Barry Lamar Bonds to play for them. Barry is an incredible talent (he is currently the reigning all-time single season and lifetime HOME RUN KING and Barry would make the Braves a legitimate contender. It would be pure delight to have Barry on the team because I think that Barry would be motivated to lead the Braves to a world championship since that is the only thing missing from his glorius resume. Okay maybe thats a little exaggerated but I think Barry could do wonders in a Braves uniform. I hope the Braves give Barry Bonds a legitimate opportunity since he is still a living legend and a great talent to boot.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

WOW! i got fooled bad! i saw the mlb heading and bit it hook line and sinker! now i feel silly.

no wonder that trade didnt make sense!

well, thats a big sigh of relief from me…

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Is the Kazmir trade real? I haven’t seen anything on mlbtraderumors.com and my boy there has been on top of things all week. I’m beginning to think we’ve been had.

By DAP

December 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

And for contrast, read this article on The Mets Home Page about how the mets have nothing to offer other teams.

one quote from the article:

“Gomez is the only prospect they’ve made available who excites you,” one GM said. “And he still needs some time.”

By Andy K.

December 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

SlipperyWilson…Renteria and Jones aren’t AfricanAmerican…and also, please calm down, relax, stay a while

By Renegator

December 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Poor Muts fans. They have no good news from the winter meetings so they have to make it up themselves. So sad…

By Greg O.

December 5, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

SlipperyWilson, looks like you let one slip. Andruw Jones is from Curacao and Edgar Renteria is from Colombia. But Willie Harris is, in fact, black. Hey, one out of three isn’t bad.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 5, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Its fake, people. I didn’t think Minaya was that smart and savvy!

By DAP

December 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

SliperyWilson youre right. braves dont want any black players, so they are ethnically cleansing their team. b. jones will definetly be traded, and TP will be forced to take a job elsewhere. also, escobar is a little to dark-skinned for comfort, so we will need to bleach him out or something.

you are clearly a very intelligent person.

By adolf oliver knipples

December 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

LOL.

You can go ahead and assume that any text edited that poorly is fake — whatever the url.

By Randy

December 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

DOB What do you think about the idea of trying to obtain Alex Rios? Do you think it could be done?

By Lew

December 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

CCRider-With all due respect, Dude-Do you walk into the auto dealership and offer your two year old car and twice the sticker price for your rides? That’s essentially what that Lincecum deal you proposed is the equivalent of.

You’re offering a pitcher who has won 11 games in each of his first two seasons, a starting 2B who hit .276 with an OBP of .375 with 16 HR and 68 RBI while hitting either leadoff, second or eighth in the order-without complaint. As to his tailing off-Dude, the guy missed all of 06 rehabbing his elbow after surgery, then worked all of the winter AND Spring Training-intensively. It’s time to face facts that the guy was plain worn out. That should not be an issue this time around. Mark my words, he will get only better,

Add to this the fact you also want to include Brandon JOnes, who the Braves feel is ML ready-who will compete for or platoon in the left field slot AND an excellent four tool prospect in Hernandez for what? A pitcher who has pitched most of ONE ML season, after going through his last year in college, A Ball, AA ball and AAA ball in barely over a year? A pitcher who is all of 5’10” (and you know they added a couple inches to his real height), weighing only 155 pounds-who even you acknowledge may not be durable- A pitcher who went all of 7-5 (albeit with an atrocious team).

What leads you to believe that this is an equitable trade? The fact he throws hard and had a barely 2-1 K to BB ratio? Was it his college career-the first two years of which he was nowhere near as good as his third? Or is it all of the hype surrounding him? Dude, why do you think the Giants have him on the block? Could it be because they realize he may very well tank after his second year and that his value is at it’s highest now?

Think about it. We gave up five prospects for Tex, a great hitter, and Mahay, an established LHRP. You want to give up four players, including a proven back of rotation pitcher and a good hitting second baseman and THEN throw in a couple more guys-one of whom is scheduled to start in left? You want to trade this all for a basically unproven pitcher who may or may not be good-sometime-or may break down because he has nothing to anchor him to the mound? Don’t think so.

By Mike D.

December 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

I say we need to make a center field move now and another starter needs to be added. Wren needs to do this now and not wait till 2 months from now. I say we trade for Rios and Harren.

GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!

By David O'Brien

December 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS INDEED POSTED.

Lew, you should transfer that post to the new one. Too much work to leave it over here.

By rich brave

December 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Thanks again to all who challenge the racial issues occasionally bandied about here. Keep it up. That kind of nonsense must be answered.

This country has made some egregious errors in its race relations. Based upon today’s social mores, we’ve rarely been correct.

But baseball, a financially inspired institution, has no room for such antics, and I believe the Federal Government has oversight of MLB through its Anti-Trust Exemption. Wouldn’t practices of this type be subject to Federal prosecution? If so, then redress against such discriminatory practices would carry some heavy baggage.

Therefore, I would encourage those who post here and see a pattern of discrimination by baseball’s ownership to notify their elected representatives.

Congressional leaders are always interested in standing up for the rights of individuals in our society and would be most interested in what you have to say on the subject. Whereas the rest of those who post here ARE NOT!!

By Esmerejindo H. Vargas

December 6, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

To those of you believing those fantasy stories about the mets getting kazmir. I can’t even believe there are some met fans in here, but oh well, its a free country I guess.

Listen, right now all the mets will get in a starter is something called Livan Hernandez and unless its the postseason, the Braves OWN him, literally. They have hammered him so bad, made him look dead silly. I don’t know how many games Livan has won against the braves but it hasn’t been a lot, and not lately either. So I really do hope the mets get Livan. He’s way past his prime and even if he could pitch 220 innings per season, he’s gonna get hammered in runs against him with the same number.

Johan Santana blah blah blah, yeah yeah. I’ve heard it all. Twins will re-sign him, if BoSox can’t get him. Baltimore will re-sign Bedard if Dodgers can’t get him. And the A’s will end up feeling bad about Haren, Blanton, so they’ll re-sign them as well. If Livan Hernandez is Omar Minaya’s best, then I am not worried about Atlanta winning the NL East in 2008. I’m all in with it too, so sue me.